# STUD FEE PAID. NO PREGNANCY.



## Hannah22 (Aug 30, 2021)

Hello everyone I was looking for some advice. I took my female to a stud for mating she was on second day of call and we arranged for her to stay there for 5 days with video and photo evidence of actual mating taking place, the lady sent videos of her Male trying to get on my females back but nothing more then this, my female was in full call not her first time having kittens and she’s been very submissive. 
The lady asked for the fee upfront which I paid with the agreement if she didn’t fall pregnant I could bring her back free of charge on her next heat ( no time limit was stated as my female doesn’t come into regular heat and often has silent heats so the no time limit was preferred one of the reasons we chose this stud) I paid £350 to the lady seemed to be a nice lady, she wasn’t sending regular updates so I would message her see how things are and if anything was actually happening between the pair which is when she sent the video of her Male trying but no videos of actual mating or female after affects (rolling around etc) I asked several times are they just trying or has a mating taken place she assured me it had. 
I trusted this woman as the Male was proven as she had kittens in the house at the time. In the video my female was waiting and waiting but from what I could see the male just couldn’t get in her. The lady told me her and her husband had both witnessed them mating several times but no proof of this. We picked my female up 5 days later she was still in call which I thought was unusual but does happen so wasn’t to worried. She is already fat cat so didn’t think she would show untill around 6 weeks so I waited and waited 6 weeks went by nothing had changed no signs of her being pregnant so I messaged the lady to let her know she told me to bring her back when she’s next calling I said okay thank you. She started calling 11 days later so 7 and a half weeks from her last heat she may have had a silent heat in between I’m not sure. The lady has said she’s on holiday I can bring her back when she’s back but as I know and the lady is aware of she comes into call every 7-8 weeks. I told her that would be nearly 2 months from now and the agreement was to bring her back on her next heat which is now but as she’s not in the country I’m not able to bring her... she offered to return my money which I was disappointed about but agreed to as I would of preferred to bring her back but that couldn’t happen as she went on holiday... ( sorry for this being so long) she is now refusing to refund me calling me a lier saying my cat is pregnant:/ I didn’t know she was on holiday when I asked to bring her back so what she’s saying makes no sense if she was pregnant I wouldn’t have asked to bring her back the same day I messaged which would of made 7 weeks from her visit with the stud. I’m just looking for some advice what to do because she won’t refund my money after it being her idea to offer it to me and has called me a lier and also is saying she’s away for 2 weeks so to wait another 7 weeks and bring her back but now I know this lady is not a very nice person I don’t know how comfortable I feel leaving my cat with her after the names I have been called and the efforts she has gone to making out like it’s my fault etc. There’s a lot of details as to what she has said to me but I feel like I have been scammed any advice would be great thank you.


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## Fendi (Nov 14, 2020)

Do you have a mentor that can help you out? What breed is your girl?

to be fair to the stud owner they can’t always update you with photos/videos because they too have lives to lead so I wouldn’t stress about that.

Importantly did you have some sort of written agreement (even text messages can be constituted as a written agreement).

Queens do not always fall pregnant even if the stud mates with them. Sometimes the whole ordeal knocks them out of heat.

this is a hard one but personally if you feel uncomfortable about this woman I wouldn’t be leaving my cat with her.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

"_The lady has said she's on holiday I can bring her back when she's back_"

She is entitled to a holiday, it might have been booked before you went there the first time.

"_now I know this lady is not a very nice person_"

Why? Because she has gone on holiday?

Sorry if I've missed something, finding your post as one big paragraph hard to read.


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## Hannah22 (Aug 30, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> "_The lady has said she's on holiday I can bring her back when she's back_"
> 
> She is entitled to a holiday, it might have been booked before you went there the first time.
> 
> ...


She has said I'm lying multiple times , as I said there's lots more details as to what she has said to me and called me but I thought I would post the relevant information rather then the things she has called me and said to me. I feel that if she had booked the holiday then she shouldn't have made the agreement that I can bring her back on her next heat when she knew my girl if not pregnant would come back into heat at the time she would be away.


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## Hannah22 (Aug 30, 2021)

Fendi said:


> Do you have a mentor that can help you out? What breed is your girl?
> 
> to be fair to the stud owner they can't always update you with photos/videos because they too have lives to lead so I wouldn't stress about that.
> 
> ...


Yes I have the text messages from the first time we spoke untill now , when arranging to bring my girl we were assured we would get video and photos of the actual mating. When she returned to me she was still in heat. Definitely don't feel comfortable taking my girl back to her but she offered to return my money then a few hours later has started calling me a lier saying my girl MUST be pregnant and that she won't be back for another 2 weeks and I can bring her then but she knows my girl won't be in call for another 7 weeks. After she offered the refund she told me good luck with your new stud and 2 days later after she thought I had taken her somewhere else said that she won't be refunding me and that I can bring her on her next heat (after thinking I had taken her to another stud)... I hope that makes sense It's hard to explain everything but just put the basics of my issue for some advice


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## Fendi (Nov 14, 2020)

Sorry to ask again but are you a registered breeder? Is the stud owner a registered breeder? What breed is your cat?

im surprised she said that she would provide you with videos/photos of them mating. Cats mating can be very quick, like literally a few minutes. So unless she’s sitting right beside them with her phone on video that would be tricky.


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## Hannah22 (Aug 30, 2021)

Fendi said:


> Sorry to ask again but are you a registered breeder? Is the stud owner a registered breeder? What breed is your cat?
> 
> im surprised she said that she would provide you with videos/photos of them mating. Cats mating can be very quick, like literally a few minutes. So unless she's sitting right beside them with her phone on video that would be tricky.


I'm not a registered breeder I have bred her in the aim to keep 2 kittens one for myself and one for my father and from her first litter we bred her to keep one which we did and have her son who is 1.5 years old. This will be her last litter. She is a British shorthair gccf registered on the active Register. 
the stud is not a registered breeder

It is a difficult situation and I didn't want it to turn into something like this but I informed her 7 weeks after mating and told her that my female is definitely not pregnant and she was in the country didn't mention she's going away and said bring her back when she's calling I will be around and hopefully this time goes well I message her 11 days later to ask if I can bring her as she's now in heat and she said she's not in the country after a chat she said I can either bring her back when she's in heat and she's back 2 weeks from now knowing she won't be in heat for another 7 weeks or she can refund me, I chose the refund as from the discussion she said my girl would be back in heat in the 2 weeks which she already knows wouldn't happen as she calls every 7-8 weeks so I knew if I said okay when she eventually did call again she would say to much time has passed. She said she would refund me after this chat then a few hours later changed her mind and said my girl definitely is pregnant and long story short I'm lying and she will be calling when she's back from holiday to bring her then which I know she won't be in heat and after being called a lier and other things she said I just wouldn't feel comfortable taking my girl back. I don't know what to do. £350 is a lot of money and the agreement was on her next heat she could go back for free but she's not in the country for me to bring her . Is there anyway I can get my money back ?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Fendi said:


> Sorry to ask again but are you a registered breeder? Is the stud owner a registered breeder? What breed is your cat?
> 
> im surprised she said that she would provide you with videos/photos of them mating. Cats mating can be very quick, like literally a few minutes. So unless she's sitting right beside them with her phone on video that would be tricky.


I am friends with a well known Siamese breeder here in the UK, and when a friend sent her cats to stud there they always came back with a Polaroid pinned to the mating certificate. She only did supervised matings.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Hannah22 said:


> I'm not a registered breeder I have bred her in the aim to keep 2 kittens one for myself and one for my father and from her first litter we bred her to keep one which we did and have her son who is 1.5 years old. This will be her last litter. She is a British shorthair gccf registered on the active Register.
> the stud is not a registered breeder
> 
> It is a difficult situation and I didn't want it to turn into something like this but I informed her 7 weeks after mating and told her that my female is definitely not pregnant and she was in the country.
> ...


I've added some paragraphs to your post as I was struggling with the amount of information.

When you say she's not registered, do you mean the stud isn't on the active register or she doesn't have her own prefix? If the former you are heading into BYB territory where there be dragons. If he is on the active, did she show you his registration card? (just his pedigree is no good, it won't show his status and the Internet is awash with fake pedigrees)

Do you have a text or email offering the refund? If you do, the small claims court (or the threat of it) might help you get your money back.

I feel this could be 50/50. Did you tell her up-front your cat only calls infrequently? She might think you are messing her around, and trying to get a free mating.

I also noticed this: "_She is already fat cat"_. It's not great to mate an overweight cat.

Final comment: No idea where you found this stud owner, but if she's a random on P4H you have, to a degree, got what you deserve.


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## Hannah22 (Aug 30, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> I've added some paragraphs to your post as I was struggling with the amount of information.
> 
> When you say she's not registered, do you mean the stud isn't on the active register or she doesn't have her own prefix? If the former you are heading into BYB territory where there be dragons. If he is on the active, did she show you his registration card? (just his pedigree is no good, it won't show his status and the Internet is awash with fake pedigrees)
> 
> ...


Her stud is on the active register, texts confirming she offered a refund. I have his registration number on the mating certificate, she knew she calls infrequently I told her roughly every 7-8 weeks. I asked to bring her back this week which is 8 and a half weeks from their first mating so there would be no way I could be trying to rip her off as if my cat was pregnant she's not due for another few days. The fact you say I got what I deserve is abit much as it is a website where lots of studs are advertised the Male I paid for is on the active registry health tested, my female is also health tested and on the active register I have done everything right on my half so how losing £350 is what I deserve I'm not quiet sure... and the bit about her being fat, she was health checked before mating she's a big cat but the vet said she's not overweight just a very large cat.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Hannah22 said:


> Her stud is on the active register, texts confirming she offered a refund. I have his registration number on the mating certificate, she knew she calls infrequently I told her roughly every 7-8 weeks. I asked to bring her back this week which is 8 and a half weeks from their first mating so there would be no way I could be trying to rip her off as if my cat was pregnant she's not due for another few days.
> 
> The fact you say I got what I deserve is abit much as it is a website where lots of studs are advertised. The Male I paid for is on the active registry health tested, my female is also health tested and on the active register. I have done everything right on my half so how losing £350 is what I deserve I'm not quiet sure... and the bit about her being fat, she was health checked before mating she's a big cat but the vet said she's not overweight just a very large cat.


Could only go on what you said about her weight.

Personally, as breeder, I'd be very, very wary about getting a stud from P4H. Just because lots of studs are advertised there doesn't make it a great place to find one, at least not without plenty of due diligence.

However good that he's registered active.

As you have a text offering a refund I'd pursue that and suggest small claims court if she's not forthcoming. However be prepared to go through with it. I think you can include the court fee in your claim. Do you think she has the money though?

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Hannah22 said:


> I have done everything right on my half so how losing £350 is what I deserve I'm not quiet sure


The stud fee is actually a fee for service (the breeders time and having to care for your cat) not the result. Although most breeders do accept a queen back should she prove not to be in kitten, they would expect her to be returned within a very short timescale not three or four months down the line. Your girls calling pattern is your problem, not the stud owners. 
There was no reason why she should tell you she was going on holiday as frankly it is none of your business. 
Having heard on more than one occasion of queen owners sending a queen back for a free mating some time later, when in fact she'd actually successfully produced a litter the first time round, I'm not surprised the stud owner is suspicious, particularly as they don't know you from Adam. 
It is certainly an unfortunate turn of events and it sounds to me like words have been had hence her sudden change in mood towards you. After all, we have only heard one side of the story here.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Hannah22 said:


> he fact you say I got what I deserve is abit much as it is a website where lots of studs are advertised





OrientalSlave said:


> Personally, as breeder, I'd be very, very wary about getting a stud from P4H. Just because lots of studs are advertised there doesn't make it a great place to find one, at least not without plenty of due diligence.


I'm not a cat breeder, not even a cat owner, but I do know Pets 4 Homes is not a place to look - either for studs/queens/bitches, or for kittens/puppies, etc, so I second this.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Hannah22 said:


> Hello everyone I was looking for some advice. I took my female to a stud for mating she was on second day of call and we arranged for her to stay there for 5 days with video and photo evidence of actual mating taking place, the lady sent videos of her Male trying to get on my females back but nothing more then this, my female was in full call not her first time having kittens and she's been very submissive.
> The lady asked for the fee upfront which I paid with the agreement if she didn't fall pregnant I could bring her back free of charge on her next heat ( no time limit was stated as my female doesn't come into regular heat and often has silent heats so the no time limit was preferred one of the reasons we chose this stud) I paid £350 to the lady seemed to be a nice lady, she wasn't sending regular updates so I would message her see how things are and if anything was actually happening between the pair which is when she sent the video of her Male trying but no videos of actual mating or female after affects (rolling around etc) I asked several times are they just trying or has a mating taken place she assured me it had.
> I trusted this woman as the Male was proven as she had kittens in the house at the time. In the video my female was waiting and waiting but from what I could see the male just couldn't get in her. The lady told me her and her husband had both witnessed them mating several times but no proof of this. We picked my female up 5 days later she was still in call which I thought was unusual but does happen so wasn't to worried. She is already fat cat so didn't think she would show untill around 6 weeks so I waited and waited 6 weeks went by nothing had changed no signs of her being pregnant so I messaged the lady to let her know she told me to bring her back when she's next calling I said okay thank you. She started calling 11 days later so 7 and a half weeks from her last heat she may have had a silent heat in between I'm not sure. The lady has said she's on holiday I can bring her back when she's back but as I know and the lady is aware of she comes into call every 7-8 weeks. I told her that would be nearly 2 months from now and the agreement was to bring her back on her next heat which is now but as she's not in the country I'm not able to bring her... she offered to return my money which I was disappointed about but agreed to as I would of preferred to bring her back but that couldn't happen as she went on holiday... ( sorry for this being so long) she is now refusing to refund me calling me a lier saying my cat is pregnant:/ I didn't know she was on holiday when I asked to bring her back so what she's saying makes no sense if she was pregnant I wouldn't have asked to bring her back the same day I messaged which would of made 7 weeks from her visit with the stud. I'm just looking for some advice what to do because she won't refund my money after it being her idea to offer it to me and has called me a lier and also is saying she's away for 2 weeks so to wait another 7 weeks and bring her back but now I know this lady is not a very nice person I don't know how comfortable I feel leaving my cat with her after the names I have been called and the efforts she has gone to making out like it's my fault etc. There's a lot of details as to what she has said to me but I feel like I have been scammed any advice would be great thank you.


For posterity.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

If you have a girl on the active register, does the breeder have a stud you can use? My first litter was with a stud the breeder of my queen owned. The stud owner can be invaluable at giving you advice and help. Finding a random person who bought a stud to make money advertising on [email protected] is unlikely to provide help and support. If your girls breeder doesn’t have a stud who could she recommend? 

I realise you have paid £350 but I would personally chalk that up to experience, a knowledgeable stud owner could likely save you that in vets bills.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

If you don't want to lose your stud fee I would suggest sending her a conciliatory email, say that you would please like to return your girl for another mating, as per the original agreement, when she next calls, at a time convenient to the stud owner and when the stud is free.

Whatever the circumstance and even when one feels 'in the right', it rarely helps to keep repeating your point of view and it isn't going to help you achieve what you want. I do understand that it's very frustrating but I think it's usually worth taking a step back and being nice even though she may not deserve it....or alternatively walk away, chalk it up to experience and lose the stud fee.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> I'm not a cat breeder, not even a cat owner, but I do know Pets 4 Homes is not a place to look - either for studs/queens/bitches, or for kittens/puppies, etc, so I second this.


There are reputable stud owners and breeders advertising there but caveat emptor - buyer beware


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Firstly. The stud owner agreed to you returning your girl for a second mating if she didn't take.
Secondly. When you told her she wasn't pregnant she was still happy for you to go back for another attempt, the fact she had a holiday booked had nothing to do with you and she was in no way obligated to tell you she was going on holiday.
Thirdly. The fact she was on holiday when your girl came back on call and it was going to be another 8 weeks after that before she called again isn't the stud owners problem and wouldn't be the end of the world for your girl waiting a bit longer.
They stud owner has probably got a bit prissy with you because you have come across as spitting your dummy out with her.
She is in no way obligated to give you your stud feedback. I fact if you have been a it stroppy /moody with her then if it were me I'd have just said sod it I'm not dealing with you end off.
Things don't always go to plan when breeding, you just have to sick it up and get on with it. I suggest you try and reconcile with the stud owner but do t be to surprised if they don't want to be bothered with you.


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