# Hi, I'm new - Can I have some advice pls?



## Magic Rose (Sep 26, 2011)

Hi, I'm new to this forum but having been taking care of rabbits and guinea pigs since I was a child. I would like to ask your advice.

Our beloved Bella gave birth to 3 kittens this weekend and I had a quick peek at them this morning whilst Bella went out in the garden to stretch her legs. I am concerned about one of the kittens. It seems to have two scabs instead of eyes, which the fur from the nest has stuck to. The eye sockets just look like two black holes  It also has a large, prominent vein on its back. It is not the smallest of the litter but I fear for it. I have not touched the kittens, only pulled the nest back to look. Bella has had a litter before, she had 4 last time of which 2 were small but they all survived.

Has anyone else had similar and can offer any advice?
Thanks x


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

what breed are they? do you know the FULL genetic history of both mum and dad going back atleast 4 generations on either side? did you use the same buck last time?

also what are your reasons for breeding? what do you aim to achive from each breeding?


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## Magic Rose (Sep 26, 2011)

Flipping heck, sounds like a firing squad! Obviously, not a friendly forum that I thought this would be! I could answer your barrage of questions but I choose not to.
Goodbye!


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2011)

Magic Rose said:


> Flipping heck, sounds like a firing squad! Obviously, not a friendly forum that I thought this would be! I could answer your barrage of questions but I choose not to.
> Goodbye!


We are a very friendly forum, we are allowed at ask questions are we not?
The reason you have a deformed kit could be cleared up with answering the questions.
Your choice if you answer them or not of course, but IMO only people that have something to hide will avoid answering certain questions


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

we cant offer any help without knowing the answers to the questions im afraid.

your response makes me think you know nothing about their genetics and are just breeding for cute kits which you can sell on though, there are over 35,000 rabbits in rescue at any given point in time, and breeding for no reason other then to create cute little bunnies only adds to this problem

aslo have you have found out if you dont know their genetics and carefully work out and plan your matings according to compatible genetic backgrounds, you end up with deformities

please spay your female and male and enjoy them as pets, that way you will not breed from the dodgy genes again, as i very much dobt you know who is carrying it, however if you were able to answer our questions, we could possiably work it out IF all factors are known
if they are not, these rabbits should never be bred from


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

Magic Rose said:


> Flipping heck, sounds like a firing squad! Obviously, not a friendly forum that I thought this would be! I could answer your barrage of questions but I choose not to.
> Goodbye!


Hi, It is a friendly forum here, please do not be put off. 
Sometimes when they are so young it can be difficult to see details. Maybe his eyes are just a little stuck together. Can you see if he has a round little tummy? ..ie is he feeding ok? Maybe over the next few days you can see a little clearer if there is a problem. Hope he is ok.


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

We are a friendly forum here, some people aren't so good at getting their ideas across or jump to conclusions about everyone. It is in the interest in the rabbits but does scare people off quite easily. 

I think the questions asked although all thrown in at once are just to get a full picture of the situation. The genetic question to get an idea if maybe it could be a genetic problem with the kit carried by one of the parents. Knowinf if its the same buck that fathered both litters can give some idea if its the doe or buck if there was a genetic fault. 

The problem with the kit could be something as simple as a bit of an eye infection so crust is keeping the eyes closed (would spread to other kits and mum though) or something more serious like a genetic problem or it could even be nothing and looking again tomorrow will find a perfectly healthy kit.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Doesn't sound like youve been 'taking care' of anything since you were a child...


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

I dont blame the new member for leaving guys, I worry about what sort of reputation this forum is getting for scaring off newbies  and what those newbies are now doing for advice  
If I had that reply, as a newbie, I wouldnt have answered and just left aswell!

Can we please try to word things so they are not so accusing and maybe answer the question best we can before judging? 
This person asked what it could be, answer could be "It could be genetic, mum mutilated babies, eye infection problem but to know which one we need to know a bit more" then the "do you know 4 generations back? any eye problems that you know of? etc etc" 
Why they breed has nothing to do with helping the poor little kits eye, which may never get an answer now 

It actually upsets me a fair bit that I tell people we are a friendly bunch and that newbies just arn't getting that.

*Heidi*


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## wacky (Jan 23, 2011)

hazyreality said:


> I dont blame the new member for leaving guys, I worry about what sort of reputation this forum is getting for scaring off newbies  and what those newbies are now doing for advice
> If I had that reply, as a newbie, I wouldnt have answered and just left aswell!
> 
> Can we please try to word things so they are not so accusing and maybe answer the question best we can before judging?
> ...


i totaly agree with you im glad someone eles thinks the same as me


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

I think the lady's original post was caring and honest and good on her for seeking advice for this little one. Many people wouldn't. 
I doubt we'll hear from the lady again now, and the one who will suffer is the wee bunny. All valid questions I agree, there are just ways of asking.

It's a shame. If you google Pet Forum its says "friendly"


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Well honestly if the questions Lil Miss asked were known to the OP, I have no doubt they would have replied and answered.

This rabbit has had two litters and neither seem to have been particularly healthy...


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## labyrinth001 (Aug 6, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Well honestly if the questions Lil Miss asked were known to the OP, I have no doubt they would have replied and answered.
> 
> This rabbit has had two litters and neither seem to have been particularly healthy...


Nobody likes to answer questions or have a discussion when they feel attacked.

I think people are just saying we should try to respect everyone who posts here, because they come here with questions and expect help. And if they say something about breeding or how they keep their rabbits that we disagree with, it's best to correct them kindly or lead into the questions we have, not jump down their throats. I think we'll find people are much more willing to answer questions and listen to our advice if we don't practically accuse them of being horrible pet owners, which, unfortunately, I've seen on some posts in this forum. They're here for help; that's a GOOD thing.


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2011)

Well that was a waste of a thread!! :mad2:


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

Theres a couple of people in this section that seem to assume everyone other than themselves are the worst owners in the world and attack them before knowing the situation fully, I've even seen old members return with a question and be attacked by newer know-it-all's. 

To be honest I've thought of leaving a few times due to the attitude here and how new members are made to feel like such bad owners for asking a question and having irrelevant questions about care thrown at them.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

im sorry but if you like it or not to even begin to answer the question we neeed to know all the facts to all the questions asked and more!
just because i dont have time nor patiance to sugar coat everysingle thing i say doesn not mean i am being "rude" or "aggressive" or as you so lovely put it "a know it all" 
the fact is we need to know the facts to help, and if some one asked me those Qs i would have no issue answering

the fact of the matter is the OP took offence leading quite a few of us to think that they are yet another BYB, thinking bun + bun = cute babies, only to find out that it isnt that

it is sad that some people have to find out like this
they should research before hand not after

and as for your little comment about attacking older members? i havent seen anything like that


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Lil Miss said:


> im sorry but if you like it or not to even begin to answer the question we neeed to know all the facts to all the questions asked and more!
> just because i dont have time nor patiance to sugar coat everysingle thing i say doesn not mean i am being "rude" or "aggressive" or as you so lovely put it "a know it all"
> the fact is we need to know the facts to help, and if some one asked me those Qs i would have no issue answering
> 
> ...


I understand that those questions needed to be asked about the genetics but not the "why do you breed? etc" that has nothing to do with the kits eyes.
If you dont have time or patience to reply in a civil manor or as you put it "sugar coated" at that time, maybe you should put off replying until you do. People work on first impressions I am afraid whether online or in real life, and if thats the first impression that they get of this forum and its "friendly and helpful" attitide and advice then they will undoubtedly leave and tell others not to bother. What happens to all those we then cant help because they dare not ask a simple question to get a straight answer? 
It is a pet lovers forum first and formost, not an anti-breeding forum as it seems to have become! If someone hadn't bred all of our beautiful babies, we would have nothing to care for now! 
If EVERYONE stopped breeding, no-one would have rabbits as pets in the future, you cant just say "stop breeding" without knowing anything about the person in question!!!

*Heidi*


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

i am not anti breeding, but i will never support idiots breeding, and why they have decided to breed may not be essential to the kit, but it is essential to their rabbits welfare, if the answer is to get cute kits pure and simple, then their rabbits are better of spayed, end of, there is no arguement against that.

and no just because i dont sugar coat facts shouldnt mean i shouldnt reply, sugar coating things gets really old really fast.

the questions asked are all valid, the fact they didnt want to (or maybe couldnt) answer them, proves that they are not breeding responsiable, and i for one will never support that, and i hope no one on here would.

breeding is not as simple as 1 + 1 = 2, and when you spend the vast majority of your time (and money) cleaning up these kinds of "mistakes" from people like this, then you can judge how i respond to irresponsible breeding

we NEED good responsible breeders, fact.
we do NOT need irresponsible BYB's who act first and think later (if at all) and create animals with problems


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Lil Miss said:


> i am not anti breeding, but i will never support idiots breeding, and why they have decided to breed may not be essential to the kit, but it is essential to their rabbits welfare, if the answer is to get cute kits pure and simple, then their rabbits are better of spayed, end of, there is no arguement against that.
> 
> and no just because i dont sugar coat facts shouldnt mean i shouldnt reply, sugar coating things gets really old really fast.
> 
> ...


I agree we dont need BYB but we dont need to shove it down peoples throats either! They could well be a responsible breeder who is new to it (everyone has to be at some point) but because of the harsh reply we will never know and therefore never get the point across in a way they will listen to if they are doing it wrong!
Cant you see that by attacking them at the first point, they will just not bother to listen, believe you me, if I get a post like that, I dont! 
Why would they answer the questions when it feels like they are getting the 3rd degree from the set off? 
People shouldnt have to defend themselves, their beliefs, their reasons when all they want is an answer to a question that unfortunately they dont know the answer to. They might have been able to answer those questions, they might not, but we will never KNOW because they got scared and ran!

*Heidi*


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

If they really care more about how someone talks to them on a forum than for the welfare of their newborn kits without eyes, then they are hardly 'animal lovers' are they.


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> If they really care more about how someone talks to them on a forum than for the welfare of their newborn kits without eyes, then they are hardly 'animal lovers' are they.


Again, speculation, they may well have rang their vets for advice or checked a forum that didnt attack them! We dont KNOW! thats the point and we will never KNOW!

*Heidi*


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2011)

She was asked a lot of questions but the questions were valid? 


I have no idea why people are having a go at Lil Miss.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

again, i attacked no one, and yes every one starts some where, idealy under the wing of another decent breeder, the fact they didnt answer screams that they dont know, if they knew they would have no issue responding, sorry but some one like that will never be a responsible breeder, any one who knows about breeding knows that if you say you are breeding you will get askled those sort of questions

the questions i asked are ALL valid and still remain valid


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2011)

Lil Miss said:


> again, i attacked no one, and yes every one starts some where, idealy under the wing of another decent breeder, the fact they didnt answer screams that they dont know, if they knew they would have no issue responding, sorry but some one like that will never be a responsible breeder, any one who knows about breeding knows that if you say you are breeding you will get askled those sort of questions
> 
> the questions i asked are ALL valid and still remain valid


If there were more people that are as concerned for rabbits as you hun there would be a lot less rabbits breed and looked after properly. Don't let them get to you.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

For a good breeder those questions are very easy to answer, and are not 'attacks'

A good breeder would welcome the chance to 'rebut' Lil Miss and go well actually yes, I have this this this this this and the genetics are strong so I am not sure why this has happened.


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Lil Miss said:


> again, i attacked no one, and yes every one starts some where, idealy under the wing of another decent breeder, the fact they didnt answer screams that they dont know, if they knew they would have no issue responding, sorry but some one like that will never be a responsible breeder, any one who knows about breeding knows that if you say you are breeding you will get askled those sort of questions
> 
> the questions i asked are ALL valid and still remain valid


Ok, you say the questions were valid, say I agree that they ALL were, why could they not have been asked in a nicer manner, not the "firing squad" as the newbie put it! you've said yourself that you dont have the time or patience to put it in a nicer way, but to me if you dont have time and patience with newbies, then you cant help them, there is a reason they are called newbies!!!
It might scream that they dont know but quite simply we dont KNOW that they couldnt answer them, its judging people once again. You dont KNOW that they wont be a responsible breeder. To use the "innocent until proven guilty" phrase, why shouldnt that apply to breeders who want help and to be honest, anybody asking a question!!!

*Heidi*


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm sorry but why do these threads always end in a fight???

Heidi I'm sorry but there was nothing wrong with the questions Lil Miss asked, they were *all* valid questions and* all* the answers would have helped myself and Miss understand why the OP had bred a deformed kit.
If the OP had researched as much as they should have *before* breeding they would have had no problems with answering those questions. There was no attack, just questions :mad2:

I for one have no problems with responsible, ethical breeders but considering the heartache I have had to cope with due to irresponsible BYB's I don't see a problem with asking questions and outing byb's and I will continue to do so as the animals can't speak up for themselves.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

no i dont have patiance for people breeding who have no place to be breeding, and im sorry but im not going to sugar coat my words just to please you, way too much extra typing when there is no need

there is nothing wrong with what i put
it was not typed in an agressive way, there were no nasty words in it, no OMG YOU EVIL BYB GET OUT MY FACE or anything like that in it, it was simple and straight to the point. simples.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2011)

And as the OP has not answered those questions it speaks volumes don't you think??? Lil Miss was right!!


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2011)

KathrynH said:


> And as the OP has not answered those questions it speaks volumes don't you think??? Lil Miss was right!!


Exactly, the OP threw her toys out of her pram cos OMG someone dared to ask questions


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

KathrynH said:


> And as the OP has not answered those questions it speaks volumes don't you think??? Lil Miss was right!!


It doesnt mean a thing! It means they dont like the way they were treated, not that they dont want to or cant answer them! its all speculation!!!

There are enough people who disagree with the way it was worded, just look at other replies on this thread, it is not just me who thinks it was a harsh way to ask those questions obviously.

I only asked that for everyone to try and word things so it is not so accusing and to try and keep the newbies on here long enough to actually help!!!
I have no doubt that if that person wasnt bombarded with the questions than they would have stuck about to do right by their kit.

And Lil Miss I really do dispair that you still say you* dont have time* to treat each member, new or exsisting, suspected byb or responsible breeder, young or old with the respect that they deserve as a human being that quite frankly we know *nothing* about! :mad2:

I dont want to be having an argument with any of you about how you speak to people but someone has to before this section drops of a cliff because no-one will dare to speak their views or join up.
I just dont understand how you dont see that it will happen if this carries on :

*Heidi*


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2011)

hazyreality said:


> It doesnt mean a thing! It means they dont like the way they were treated, not that they dont want to or cant answer them! its all speculation!!!
> 
> There are enough people who disagree with the way it was worded, just look at other replies on this thread, it is not just me who thinks it was a harsh way to ask those questions obviously.
> 
> ...


I agree that she did ask a lot of questions but why could the OP not just either say "I don't have to answer those to you etc or answer them with the answers.

Not just not say anything, if new members cannot take some questions being asked of them, then they are on the wrong forum in my opinion.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2011)

Oh for goodness sake, they were questions, nothing more, nothing less.
I have no doubt in *my* mind that if the OP knew the answers they would have given them.
People only act defensively if they have something to hide, I have been in rescue long enough to have learnt that lesson 

I'm sorry Heidi but you can't accuse people of speculation when you are doing just that



> I have no doubt that if that person wasnt bombarded with the questions than they would have stuck about to do right by their kit.


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> I'm sorry but why do these threads always end in a fight???
> 
> Heidi I'm sorry but there was nothing wrong with the questions Lil Miss asked, they were *all* valid questions and* all* the answers would have helped myself and Miss understand why the OP had bred a deformed kit.
> If the OP had researched as much as they should have *before* breeding they would have had no problems with answering those questions. There was no attack, just questions :mad2:
> ...


Bernie, once again, speculation, you dont *know* they havnt researched and just not know about eye problems because they were scared off! And once again you dont *know* they couldnt answer those questions, why should they have to if they dont want to? Doesnt automatically make them a BYB!
I understand BYB are a sore point and I wholeheartedly hope that they can all be shut down and stop the suffering that some of these rabbits have but to label someone who doesnt answer a few questions a BYB to me isnt fair! They could be, they could not, its not fair to assume they are! The newbies and their animals who need help wont and cant speak up for themselves, why do you think I am!

*Heidi*

OK - take the "no doubt" out. "those people may well have stuck about to do right by their kit if they wern't bombarded" better wording?
Yes, they were questions, nothing more, nothing less! thats the point I am trying to make, no welcome, no nice way of asking them, just questions thrown at them in what comes across as an accusing way whether it was ment or not, I obviously dont know.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2011)

I never said the OP was a BYB, I said I would continue to ask questions and out them. That's why I put that statement in a new paragraph....


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It would seem that the OP has long gone from this thread and I can see no point in it continuing. The breeding of any animal is a very emotive subject and whilst asking valid questions is perfectly acceptable without the answers no one should be prejudging the OP. I am now going to close this thread.


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