# Puppy farms ch 5+1on now



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Cowboy traders ch 5+1 poor little things, vewry poorly puppies and too young to leave mothers


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## Pasuded (Feb 13, 2015)

Don't you guys have laws against puppy mills/puppy farms? Here in the US it is illegal to operate a mill/farm.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Pasuded said:


> Don't you guys have laws against puppy mills/puppy farms? Here in the US it is illegal to operate a mill/farm.


No, it isn't. And the puppy mills in the USA are rampant. There are cruelty to animal laws of course but not often enforced and the puppy mill business is thriving..


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## Pasuded (Feb 13, 2015)

Actually, it is. The AWA regulates dog breeding. The USDA also monitors sales.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Puppy Mills: Frequently Asked Questions : The Humane Society of the United States

http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/legislation/state_puppy_mill_laws.pdf


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## Pasuded (Feb 13, 2015)

Puppy mills are illegal - commercial breeders are not. I suggest you get your facts straight before spewing misinformation.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Pasuded said:


> Puppy mills are illegal - commercial breeders are not. I suggest you get your facts straight before spewing misinformation.


Yes, you really should, shouldn't you.


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## Pasuded (Feb 13, 2015)

lorilu said:


> Yes, you really should, shouldn't you.


Good comeback; you must be one of the cool kids in your school.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Pasuded said:


> Puppy mills are illegal - commercial breeders are not. I suggest you get your facts straight before spewing misinformation.


Can you explain the difference, please?

To me and to many others, people who churn out large numbers of puppies, usually without proper health tests, or any care for the welfare of the dogs, are breeding commercially and are operating puppy mills/farms.

If there is a difference, it is a subtly technical one, and however it is phrased dogs are being overbred, cruelly treated and the puppies are given a terrible start in life.

Whatever you want to call them - they are cruel and abusive and should be stopped everywhere.


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## Pasuded (Feb 13, 2015)

lostbear said:


> Can you explain the difference, please?
> 
> To me and to many others, people who churn out large numbers of puppies, usually without proper health tests, or any care for the welfare of the dogs, are breeding commercially and are operating puppy mills/farms.
> 
> ...


A commercial breeder is one who breeds and sells for profit (either small or large scale) and a puppy mill is a breeding operation who puts profits above the welfare of the dogs and operates in substandard (illegal) conditions. If you want to call a breeder who breeds many dogs and doesn't do health tests a puppy mill, then no, they are not illegal, but true puppy mills are. A dog can produce ten litters in their lifetime without being overbred. Simply breeding a dog isn't cruel.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Pasuded said:


> A commercial breeder is one who breeds and sells for profit (either small or large scale) and a puppy mill is a breeding operation who puts profits above the welfare of the dogs and operates in substandard (illegal) conditions. If you want to call a breeder who breeds many dogs and doesn't do health tests a puppy mill, then no, they are not illegal, but true puppy mills are. *A dog can produce ten litters in their lifetime without being overbred.* Simply breeding a dog isn't cruel.


A dog can - a bitch can't. I don't know where you have for your information from but it is grossly incorrect, Pas. For good welfare of the bitch, she shouldn't really be bred at all before she is 18 months to two years, depending upon the breed - giant breeds mature later and - although I don't _know_ this as I have never bred giant dogs, I would assume that ideally it might be better not to breed until she is three or so (Any people familiar with giant breeds out there? Your comments would be very welcome if I am wrong).

A bitch should not have a litter twice a year, as many do - or even every year. At most every 18 months - every two years is preferable. This means that if you start breeding your bitch (responsibly) at 18-24 months, then she should at most have four litters in her lifetime before you retire he from breeding at 8 years or so. It is irresponsible and cruel to deliberately breed from an elderly bitch.

Many BYBs and puppy farms start breeding their bitches from their first season, which is often as early as six months old, and then bred every six months until the bitch is exhausted - to the point where she is producing still-born puppies, or litters with so few live pups that she isn't commercially viable any more. If she is VERY lucky she will be re-homed. Most are slaughtered or dumped. These poor little girls are often only four or five years old, but their bodies are broken and worn out from poor nutrition, poor care and numerous litters before they have recovered from their previous whelping.

No bitch can produce 10 healthy litters in her lifetime without a great toll being taken of her body, and of those of the pups which are not nourished properly in utero.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Pasuded said:


> Puppy mills are illegal - commercial breeders are not. I suggest you get your facts straight before spewing misinformation.


I would suggest you remember that this forum is predominantly made up of UK members. We do not have puppy mills, we call them puppy farms and they are not, unfortunately, illegal. Perhaps you should get those differences straight before being rude to established members.

Or is that too rude for a mod?


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

newfiesmum said:


> I would suggest you remember that this forum is predominantly made up of UK members. We do not have puppy mills, we call them puppy farms and they are not, unfortunately, illegal. Perhaps you should get those differences straight before being rude to established members.
> *
> Or is that too rude for a mod?*


I don't think that is rude at all, NM. I think that Pas is being deliberately naughty - showing us all his knickers and then crying when we look.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Puppy Mills, Puppy Farms both are wrong and both are a problem not only in the UK but also Canada and YES the US of A also...here is just one of the lists for the US

HSUS releases list of 101 âproblemâ puppy mills in the U.S.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Pasuded said:


> A commercial breeder is one who breeds and sells for profit (either small or large scale) and a puppy mill is a breeding operation who puts profits above the welfare of the dogs and operates in substandard (illegal) conditions. If you want to call a breeder who breeds many dogs and doesn't do health tests a puppy mill, then no, they are not illegal, but true puppy mills are. *A dog can produce ten litters in their lifetime without being overbred*. Simply breeding a dog isn't cruel.


i am so shocked that someone who is supposed to be an animal/pet lover would not only say this but actually believe it  

my rescue Bichon Frise came from what you would describe as a commercial breeder (in my opinion that is a puppy farmer small or large scale) it is believed that she has had between 6 and 10 litters and I can tell you she is overbred, with health problems that have come from being so


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Pasuded said:


> A commercial breeder is one who breeds and sells for profit (either small or large scale) and a puppy mill is a breeding operation who puts profits above the welfare of the dogs and operates in substandard (illegal) conditions. If you want to call a breeder who breeds many dogs and doesn't do health tests a puppy mill, then no, they are not illegal, but true puppy mills are. A dog can produce ten litters in their lifetime without being overbred. Simply breeding a dog isn't cruel.


A fan of puppy farms then?
Any breeder who breeds soley for profit in my mind is a puppy farmer. And yes, what you are calling a commercial breeder I call a puppy farmer.
I know of a few commercial breeders here who actually go above and beyond many 'pet breeders' (bybs) and while I still wouldn't support them, wild rest her people go to them than the badly bred bitch down the road.
I'd like to meet the magical bitch (assuming you mean bitch not stud dog) that can produce 10Healthg litters and show no ill effects. Seriously, I wold love to see her.

A puppy farm doesn't have to have dead dogs lying about the place to be an unacceptable place.


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