# How do I ask the breeder for confirmation the puppy is KC registered?



## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

Hi,

Is there a way I can check if a puppy is KC registered before travelling to pick her up? 

How do I approach it with the breeder on the phone?


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## Silverdoof (Jan 23, 2014)

ask if the papers will be available when you pick puppy up



JaneJ65 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there a way I can check if a puppy is KC registered before travelling to pick her up?
> 
> How do I approach it with the breeder on the phone?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

JaneJ65 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there a way I can check if a puppy is KC registered before travelling to pick her up?
> 
> How do I approach it with the breeder on the phone?


Can't that be checked on line?

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/search/health-test-results-finder/


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

When I picked mine up the papers still hadn't arrived (KC were experiencing delays). So I phoned them with the breeders, pups and parents details. They were able to confirm both mum and sire were registered and the application had been submitted for the pups by the breeder. Of course that didn't mean the application would be accepted, but given both parents were registered and all the other details were correct (including the fact there were delays on KC's end), I took the small chance. 

I had the contract amended to say the breeder guaranteed registration would come through and I could transfer to my own name. Failing that I was entitled to a refund. Paperwork came through 10 days later.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

JaneJ65 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there a way I can check if a puppy is KC registered before travelling to pick her up?
> 
> How do I approach it with the breeder on the phone?


If they are registered breeders you should be able to find them on the Kennel Club website. Do they have a prefix? Why don't the ask them direct if you are ringing them?


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

You shouldn't have to ask for it. It's information that should have been forthcoming when you first enquired about buying the puppy. In my experience ethical breeders are usually only too pleased to give you details of the puppies bloodlines. It is quite normal though, I found for the actual pedigree certificate to be sent on to you a week or two after you've taken the puppy home.


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

Magyarmum said:


> You shouldn't have to ask for it. It's information that should have been forthcoming when you first enquired about buying the puppy. In my experience ethical breeders are usually only too pleased to give you details of the puppies bloodlines. It is quite normal though, I found for the actual pedigree certificate to be sent on to you a week or two after you've taken the puppy home.


They were having delays with the paperwork last month, not sure its still going on. When I called them they had an announcement acknowledging there were delays. So it's plausible the pups paperwork may not be ready, especially if the breeder didn't submit it early on.

The parents paperwork should be available for you to see thought. And KC club were happy to confirm the pups paperwork had been submitted (and when it had been submitted) once I could provide the breeders full details.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

JaneJ65 said:


> How do I approach it with the breeder on the phone?


Just ask if a puppy pack is provided and what it includes. (Often a little blanket that smells of mum, a toy, all the papers and some food) If none is supplied, then it will be easy ask about papers from that initial question.

There definitely was a KC delay with Tilly's registration but i had the parent kc reg numbers and called the kennel club, they confirmed the breeder had put in for registration of the litter which included my pup.

Any good breeder will have this all ready to hand to you. And be happy to tell you what will be in the pack/papers before you collect your pup


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## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

When we picked up Luna as a puppy, all her information including 5 generation pedigree and KC info was in a folder along with lots of other information e.g breed standard, feeding info, vet check evidence, vaccination card etc. Our breeder went through everything in detail and we discussed changing of ownership etc. I think it was done online and was very straight forward. As this was a couple of years ago it may be different if there is a delay but you can check details on My Kennel Club website too.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

karenmc said:


> When we picked up Luna as a puppy, all her information including 5 generation pedigree and KC info was in a folder along with lots of other information e.g breed standard, feeding info, vet check evidence, vaccination card etc. Our breeder went through everything in detail and we discussed changing of ownership etc. I think it was done online and was very straight forward. As this was a couple of years ago it may be different if there is a delay but you can check details on My Kennel Club website too.


Snap!

Exactly the same with both the breeders i bought from.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

karenmc said:


> When we picked up Luna as a puppy, all her information including 5 generation pedigree and KC info was in a folder along with lots of other information e.g breed standard, feeding info, vet check evidence, vaccination card etc. Our breeder went through everything in detail and we discussed changing of ownership etc. I think it was done online and was very straight forward. As this was a couple of years ago it may be different if there is a delay but you can check details on My Kennel Club website too.


Same Loki's (then Dave) was all set out. We had a cup of tea Sox met with Loki and we looked at the paperwork. We must have been there a couple of hours just chatting.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Boxer123 said:


> (then Dave)


Dave is such a cool dog name! I think loki would have suited Dave.

And my tilly would have suited her name, Nina.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

tabelmabel said:


> Dave is such a cool dog name! I think loki would have suited Dave.
> 
> And my tilly would have suited her name, Nina.


Ha ha we almost kept it because nothing suited him. Nina is a lovely name.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes, i like nina. We had already chosen Tilly's name before collecting her. Murphy was nameless for a little while but we couldnt have called him peter pan!

We did keep a guinea pig name from the breeder - mike. Or mike wazowski to give him his full name. He died just before christmas there but he did suit being a mike


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

tabelmabel said:


> Yes, i like nina. We had already chosen Tilly's name before collecting her. Murphy was nameless for a little while but we couldnt have called him peter pan!
> 
> We did keep a guinea pig name from the breeder - mike. Or mike wazowski to give him his full name. He died just before christmas there but he did suit being a mike


You could have called him peter and we would have had Peter & Dave.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

I rather like @GB70's Chewbacca suggestion. That would have suited him very well:Hilarious


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Gwylim was called Wembley because he was from a W litter. As Wembley always reminds me of the stadium and football couldn't wait to change his name so he became Gwylim.

Grisha was called Dmitri but as I thought it would be a bit difficult to get my tongue round it decided to change it to either Grisha or Igor. Left the final choice to my granddaughter who preferred the name Grisha.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Magyarmum said:


> New Gwylim was called Wembley because he was from a W litter


All of Tilly's littermates were N. Nina was the nicest name i think. There was a Nanette and Nala. Her brother is Noah. I cant remember the others. Murphy's kennel name im not sure of the theme there but is pet breeder name was Howard!! They were all named out of a film or tv show. I cant remember what now.

Murphy's mum's kennel name is Sophie's Rose. That is very pretty.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

If the breeder registered the litter online then they would have received an email confirming the registration so even if the papers have been delayed they should be able to show you the email to prove they have been registered. I think they are stil having problems with the kc site I have heard people say they have had the papers within a couple of weeks yet others are still waiting for several months. I think if they have sent paper registrations rather then doing them online they are taking longer due to people working from home rather than in the office.

Guillaumes KC name is William Wallace needless to say he nearly ended up being called Wally.


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## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

tabelmabel said:


> Snap!
> 
> Exactly the same with both the breeders i bought from.


It was great for us as we felt fully informed on everything. We really appreciated that our breeder was warm and friendly and had taken care of and socialised her puppies brilliantly and was also very organised in ensuring the documentation was clearly in place and discussed making sure we had chance to ask any questions etc. She also assured us that we could call her anytime day or night if we had a question or concern. We love that we keep in touch and can send her updates and pictures if Luna.


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## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Same Loki's (then Dave) was all set out. We had a cup of tea Sox met with Loki and we looked at the paperwork. We must have been there a couple of hours just chatting.


It is good to come away feeling fully informed and that everything is in place isn't it? I can't imagine Loki as Dave now!x


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## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

tabelmabel said:


> Dave is such a cool dog name! I think loki would have suited Dave.
> 
> And my tilly would have suited her name, Nina.


I think Tilly would have suited Nina but I prefer Tilly.x


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

karenmc said:


> It is good to come away feeling fully informed and that everything is in place isn't it? I can't imagine Loki as Dave now!x


Can you imagine me calling him when he blows recall


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sox wishes he'd been better informed..,


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm still in touch with Murphy's breeder who owns both murphs'mum and Gran.

Once a year, she organises a meet for all the pups in the litter. There are about 5 of us usually turn up. She put me in touch with the owners of 2 of his brothers. One i keep regular contact with and the other less often.

It definitely helps with the first pup especially when you have a breeder you get on with and stays in touch for support. When we went to collect murphy, she talked us through the contract, making it clear she would take him back if any problems and had all the documents lying out ready for us.

Tilly's breeder was similar but not quite as organised as murphy's. I think we still got all the same stuff but it was just handed to us in a folder, whereas murphy's breeder sat us down at a table and talked us through it all.


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## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

tabelmabel said:


> I'm still in touch with Murphy's breeder who owns both murphs'mum and Gran.
> 
> Once a year, she organises a meet for all the pups in the litter. There are about 5 of us usually turn up. She put me in touch with the owners of 2 of his brothers. One i keep regular contact with and the other less often.
> 
> ...


How lovely that she arranges get togethers. That is a lovely idea x


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Just been looking at murphy's relatives. Some of the names - how do they come up with them.

Murphy's great granddad is "araki amazing willy" but his ancestry also includes "Tuckles Treacle Tart" " alilah estafan of belvedere" "stormin' norman of kylamor"

And "whose zooming who" (yes, with the possessive form of whose:Banghead)


Must check till's!

Anyone else's dogs got weird named ancestors?!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Isla!s got Purbarn Nuts Hole Hazel Nuts (hole definitely spelt that way for some reason) and Hollywillow Blowing in De Gale amongst others. Sires side is mainly Spanish


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Siskin said:


> Isla!s got Purbarn Nuts Hole Hazel Nuts (hole definitely spelt that way for some reason) and Hollywillow Blowing in De Gale amongst others. Sires side is mainly Spanish


Ha ha they are even better than murphy's!!! Will have a look at till's just now . . .


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Tilly's are very sophisticated. Mainly French names. The only one of note is "kenocto radiant rumba with rochus"


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

I would ask for a copy of the puppy's pedigree. This will give you the parents names. You can check the KC website and it may even show the litter if the registration has gone through.


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

The puppies have not been born yet. I was added to the waiting list and I’m waiting for a phone call once the puppies have been born.

The advert states that I’ll receive KC registration, the puppy will have had her first vaccination, etc.

I’m going to be travelling a 400+ miles so I don’t want to get there and be told the KC papers aren’t ready without any proof that the puppies have been registered. How do I approach it during the phone call?


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

JaneJ65 said:


> The puppies have not been born yet. I was added to the waiting list and I'm waiting for a phone call once the puppies have been born.
> 
> The advert states that I'll receive KC registration, the puppy will have had her first vaccination, etc.
> 
> I'm going to be travelling a 400+ miles so I don't want to get there and be told the KC papers aren't ready without any proof that the puppies have been registered. How do I approach it during the phone call?


Do you not trust this particular breeder?
Are they and their dogs well known in the breed at all?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

JaneJ65 said:


> I'm going to be travelling a 400+ miles so I don't want to get there and be told the KC papers aren't ready without any proof that the puppies have been registered. How do I approach it during the phone call?


Why don't you say -


JaneJ65 said:


> I'm going to be travelling a 400+ miles so I don't want to get there and be told the KC papers aren't ready


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

I’m being asked to leave a despot to secure my puppy so I want to protect myself.

What details should I ask the breeder for before travelling to confirm everything is genuine?


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

I was in your situation in having to travel 7hrs and hundreds of miles after having paid a deposit to a breeder i had never met. In fact, when i got there the papers werent ready!


But i think as Bluejay says, as long as you have had the breeder recommended to you then you can have confidence. Your breeder should be known in the breed and you should have spoken to many breeders that have vouched for him/her.

My pup's papers came through in due course but i was never worried about it as i had no doubt the breeder i was buying from was genuine.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Seriously, if you have doubts now, it doesn't bode well for a good relationship. If you are so unsure, should you proceed?


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

JoanneF said:


> Seriously, if you have doubts now, it doesn't bode well for a good relationship. If you are so unsure, should you proceed?


I doubt everyone and every thing, including my husband and kids.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Genuine question: is it normal to take a deposits even before the puppies are born?
That seems a bit... off? Numbers and health of puppies is in no way guaranteed while they are still inside mum. Neither of my KC reg dog breeders took deposits before the pups were a good few weeks old


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## Pricivius (Mar 16, 2018)

Have you asked for the KC names of the sire and dam? Start there so you can check their health testing before you pay a deposit.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BlueJay said:


> Genuine question: is it normal to take a deposits even before the puppies are born?
> That seems a bit... off? Numbers and health of puppies is in no way guaranteed while they are still inside mum. Neither of my KC reg dog breeders took deposits before the pups were a good few weeks old


No, it's not normal at all - in fact, it sounds far fetched.

I never took deposits, but, those Breeders who do would normally do so when someone has chosen a pup and wants to proceed with buying it.


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

BlueJay said:


> Genuine question: is it normal to take a deposits even before the puppies are born?
> That seems a bit... off? Numbers and health of puppies is in no way guaranteed while they are still inside mum. Neither of my KC reg dog breeders took deposits before the pups were a good few weeks old


Sorry, I should have been more clear.

He wants me to send a deposit once the puppies are a few weeks old.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

BlueJay said:


> Genuine question: is it normal to take a deposits even before the puppies are born?


Ah - didnt see that. I never paid deposits before pups were born, nor was i asked for one. But i paid deposits for both pups after they had been born. I think i might have seen murphy.

But i had never seen tilly.


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

tabelmabel said:


> Ah - didnt see that. I never paid deposits before pups were born, nor was i asked for one. But i paid deposits for both pups after they had been born. I think i might have seen murphy.
> 
> But i had never seen tilly.


The man wants a deposit after the puppies have been born.


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## tyg'smum (Aug 14, 2018)

tabelmabel said:


> Just been looking at murphy's relatives. Some of the names - how do they come up with them.
> 
> Murphy's great granddad is "araki amazing willy" but his ancestry also includes "Tuckles Treacle Tart" " alilah estafan of belvedere" "stormin' norman of kylamor"
> 
> ...


Lily has some seriously weird names in her ancestry. Her full name is "Lily Go Wild", her mother was "Bling Bling Plum" and her great-grandparents on that line include "Sobbing Sal" (who is also her grandmother by a different sire), "Walkabout Sid" and "Droopys Kewel".


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

JaneJ65 said:


> The man wants a deposit after the puppies have been born.


Well that is reasonable as you are asking him to withdraw that pup from sale to anyone else.

But are you reading the other replies to see how you can have confidence in your breeder?

You should really know who's who in your breed by now


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

Should I ask the breeder for his full name, address, the details of the puppies’ parents so I can check on the KC website, etc?


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Wait, hang on a second...



> I'm supposed to be getting a puppy in three weeks' time





> The puppies have not been born yet. I was added to the waiting list and I'm waiting for a phone call once the puppies have been born.


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

tabelmabel said:


> You should really know who's who in your breed by now


I only had a brief phone call with him and he told me that I have been added to the reserved list and he will get in touch with me once the puppies have been born which is in just over three weeks' time.


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

BlueJay said:


> Wait, hang on a second...


Sorry, I made a mistake. The puppies are due to arrive in just over three weeks.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

tyg'smum said:


> Lily has some seriously weird names in her ancestry. Her full name is "Lily Go Wild", her mother was "Bling Bling Plum" and her great-grandparents on that line include "Sobbing Sal" (who is also her grandmother by a different sire), "Walkabout Sid" and "Droopys Kewel".


It is remarkable the strange names they get.

Timber's is Brabantia Canada Forest Bristle.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

JaneJ65 said:


> Sorry, I made a mistake. The puppies are due to arrive in just over three weeks.


Oh, well that's an easy mistake.

I often thought my pups were three weeks old when, in fact, they hadn't actually been born.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

So you were due to get a female puppy in three weeks (in a post from a week ago), even though at that point they were over four weeks away from even being born?
Cool


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

JaneJ65 said:


> Should I ask the breeder for his full name, address, the details of the puppies' parents so I can check on the KC website, etc?


Eh?

So, you have no clue who this person is, where he lives or how these pups are bred?


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

Rafa said:


> Oh, well that's an easy mistake.
> 
> I often thought my pups were three weeks old when, in fact, they hadn't actually been born.


I often think that I was born in 1965 when in fact I was born in 5619. Woah... I'm way ahead of TIME.


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

Rafa said:


> Eh?
> 
> So, you have no clue who this person is, where he lives or how these pups are bred?


I know his first name and the city where he lives.

The pups were bred by his female and male dogs having sexual intercourse. Who would have thought? Eh?


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## JaneJ65 (Feb 9, 2021)

BlueJay said:


> So you were due to get a female puppy in three weeks (in a post from a week ago), even though at that point they were over four weeks away from even being born?
> Cool


One too many coffees.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

JoanneF said:


> Timber's is Brabantia Canada Forest Bristle


I mind you saying he came from the Brabantia kennel but i don't think you told me his full name before - that is a good one


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2021)

Rafa said:


> Oh, well that's an easy mistake.
> 
> I often thought my pups were three weeks old when, in fact, they hadn't actually been born.


:Hilarious :Hilarious :Hilarious

I see the OP has been banned now, but just wanted to say that I got to choose Elliot's KC name and I LOVE it! It goes on all his agility certificates which is cool. Kenzie's KC name is lame 

When I finally get another puppy (in many, many years' time) I have a theme that I want to carry on from Ellie's name so will be asking to name her (probably) myself again (with the breeder's affix of course).


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

The Schnauzer I had planned on adopting but didn't because a certain small black hairy creature, (who will be nameless), tried to murder him was called Hejilogeti Fidel Castro.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Just for those who don't know Timber -










Plus










Equals


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

JoanneF said:


> Just for those who don't know Timber -
> 
> View attachment 462703
> 
> ...


 Did the toilet brush have the relevant health checks ?


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Boxer123 said:


> Did the toilet brush have the relevant health checks ?


Well, it looked clean, and I saw the Brabantia label so I thought that was enough?


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

My friend got to choose her own kc name too, with breeder's affix. I can't recall what it is but i mind she told me of someone who names the dogs after celebs but with a doggy twist. The one that sticks in my mind is Kylie Ma Dogue. Clever!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I love the Scottish gritter lorry names -

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18921747.scotlands-gritters-winter-hilarious-names/


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

I wanted to name ours Killer, but my daughter wouldn't have it and Posy she is 

I guess i'll have to save it for if she ever has pups


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

GB70 said:


> New I wanted to name ours Killer, but my daughter wouldn't have it and Posy she is


What is her kennel club name?


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabelmabel said:


> What is her kennel club name?


Milady Mishka


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Oh that sounds very posh! I do like that @GB70. That would have been very fitting for Tilly.

Mr murphles and Milady Mishka accompanied by Beryl Burlington (that is our cat)


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabelmabel said:


> Oh that sounds very posh! I do like that @GB70. That would have been very fitting for Tilly.
> 
> Mr murphles and Milady Mishka accompanied by Beryl Burlington (that is our cat)


Thanks, it was one of the better ones I encountered during the search, some were just weird lol. If you search on the KC site, they list the KC names of the pups.

I still liked the ironic Juxtaposition of Killer


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabelmabel said:


> Oh that sounds very posh! I do like that @GB70. That would have been very fitting for Tilly.
> 
> Mr murphles and Milady Mishka accompanied by Beryl Burlington (that is our cat)


Yes those three do have a very nice ring to them together, too late to change now though 

Hoping I dont end up with two dogs and a cat. Originally we were supposed to get a cat, but nobody would give us one due to living near a busy town/road. Glad we switched to a dog now, but you never know with the wife and kids. They have a habit of pocketing any submission on my part and then going to work on me again


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## LotsaDots (Apr 15, 2016)

My 2 are feeling very left out as they are mongrel mutts and don't have KC names. They'll have to develop a skill so I can register them. Billy is amazing at destroying carpets and Dottie would definitely win the squirrel/rat catching championship but not sure those are a thing! Hoping to do agility with Billy Bob (Dottie tried but failed as running off to hunt small furries is way more fun)


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes, it was this thread that caused me to go into the kc site and they have improved it loads since i got my pups. I have the certificates for mine but i like on the site how you can click a dog and get all the info about them and go all around the family tree.

Interestingly, you know how my murphy has bad hips - well he has never been hip scored but a few of his ancestors have and, when i click on him, it says his likelihood of carrying the dysplastic gene is minus something (i.e. very, very low)

Yet there are 2 in murphs litter affected so very bad luck. Presumably though, the kc site is calculating that from generations back. I now know you need to check back 5 generations for dysplasia.

Though it will be just calculating chance from the hip scored dogs in his lines. Not all.

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/search/health-test-results-finder/

This is the link for anyone that hasnt seen it. Enter your dog's kc reg number or full name kc name including breeder affix. Then click on your dog and it leads into all kinds of interesting stuff


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

LotsaDots said:


> New My 2 are feeling very left out as they are mongrel mutts and don't have KC names


A little thing like that didn't stop @JoanneF


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

GB70 said:


> Hoping I dont end up with two dogs and a cat.


I prefer cats to dogs - i have always lived with cats and always will. Cant imagine life without one.

My kids prefer beryl to either of the dogs. She is totally awesome. We are cat people at heart for sure. I'm pretty hard line with my dogs but beryl totally rules the roost in our house. She can do as she pleases, sleep where she pleases, makes ridiculous food demands which we endeavor to meet. Cats rule


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

GB70 said:


> Originally we were supposed to get a cat, but nobody would give us one due to living near a busy town/road.


Definitely don't get a cat. Believe it or not, we love cats soooo much that we choose our homes specifically suitable for outdoor cats!!
If it werent for cats, id be living city centre.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

tabelmabel said:


> I prefer cats to dogs - i have always lived with cats and always will. Cant imagine life without one.
> 
> My kids prefer beryl to either of the dogs. She is totally awesome. We are cat people at heart for sure. I'm pretty hard line with my dogs but beryl totally rules the roost in our house. She can do as she pleases, sleep where she pleases, makes ridiculous food demands which we endeavor to meet. Cats rule


. You _traitor_! Begone to the Dark Side (Cat Chat  ).


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Ha ha ha @LinznMilly i was wondering how long it would take for someone to be on to me:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious

I cant help it. My love for cats. There was a cat in residence at our house before i was born. Omg how much did i love that cat. She slept in my bed, she was always hanging around outside where we played. I told all my secrets to that cat and spent hours teaching her how to talk. Jonny morris style.

When i was 12yrs, our crazy neighbour shot her dead. I honestly was far more affected and upset by that than when my mum died. No word of a lie. Took me a good 3 months really to start to move on. She (the cat) died september 79. We got our first puppy oct 79. Just nipped to the pet shop and picked the perfect one.

We had wanted a puppy for a long time (my brother and me) but we didnt feel it fair on the cat (well, my mum didnt)

I bonded really well with the dog too, my mum died 87 and that is how i ended up getting to bring my dog to edinburgh and having her live out her life with me til she was 16 in 95.

We had a new kitten by jan 80 but unfortunately i couldnt bring her with me and she had to go for re home. I had my own new kittens by 1991 so have only lived 4 yrs with no cats whilst i was in city centre flats.

There you go - life story! With not having my first dog til 12, i think it was too late to not be able to imagine life without them. Whereas life without cats. Well, a home just isnt a home without a cat. I do like dog people though - that is the important bit.

Cat people - well . . . .


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabelmabel said:


> I'm pretty hard line with my dogs but beryl totally rules the roost in our house. She can do as she pleases, sleep where she pleases, makes ridiculous food demands which we endeavor to meet. Cats rule


We've found your kryptonite


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

GB70 said:


> I guess i'll have to save it for if she ever has pups


Are you considering breeding her, or was that just a joke to go with the thread?


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabelmabel said:


> Ha ha ha @LinznMilly i was wondering how long it would take for someone to be on to me:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious
> 
> I cant help it. My love for cats. There was a cat in residence at our house before i was born. Omg how much did i love that cat. She slept in my bed, she was always hanging around outside where we played. I told all my secrets to that cat and spent hours teaching her how to talk. Jonny morris style.


I suspect my eldest is similar, a cat person at heart, although she loves all animals.

My in laws live in a small village and have a few cats. She bonded with one and they were inseparable. Their cats are outdoors only, come rain or shine she'd be outside with the cat. She only saw it a few weeks at a time, couple of times a year. But she was heartbroken when her grandparents told her it had died. Been over a year and she still cries for it from time to time and tells me how much she misses it.

I'm still not getting a cat though


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> Are you considering breeding her, or was that just a joke to go with the thread?


It was a joke, but It's also a point of argument between me and the OH.

I don't want to. From my reading FB's have a very high chance of requiring C Section and complications. Even if all goes well, i'd then have to make sure I found good homes for the pups (it would really bother me if any ended up in a bad home).

My wife on the other hand has the notion it's cruel not to let them have atleast one litter. One of her childhood dogs was a Basset hound that had a really strong maternal instinct. Apparently she really pined for pups and went a little "crazy" until they finally let her have a littler. Or so the story goes.

The only enticement for me is sentimental. My in laws cats are all descended from a stray my wife took in years ago. I like the thought of always having a dog descended from Posy. But that would mean we'd end up with two dogs for a few years, as obviously she can't breed past a certain age.

We'll see how it goes, but I dont have a good track record of winning these types of arguments


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Cats are soooo soft and properly cuddly and their purring is just the best. My dad didnt like cats and he especially didnt like cats upstairs on the beds but my cat was s clever, she tucked down tight on my feet and never moved a fraction if he came in on cat check.

When the coast was clear, she'd come up for air and settle in a circle on my pillow. We didnt have a cat flap when i grew up and that mad notion that you put the cat out for the night. I think that was quite common in those days.

Anyway, she'd go out and then jump up from the boiler house roof onto my outside sill. Only the top hopper opened but she was pretty agile and used to get in through that!


So my cat and me were up to all kinds of tricks. Dogs are a bit bony and angular for cuddling properly. Cats just mold right in. Im a bit allergic to cats now but my daughter has a very close relationship with Beryl which is good to see.


And my eldest daughter - well she is crazy cat lady! She makes a decent living through her art and it is all cat themed!


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

GB70 said:


> It was a joke, but It's also a point of argument between me and the OH.
> 
> I don't want to. From my reading FB's have a very high chance of requiring C Section and complications. Even if all goes well, i'd then have to make sure I found good homes for the pups (it would really bother me if any ended up in a bad home).
> 
> ...


Spay her. Then there will be no argument.


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

lorilu said:


> Spay her. Then there will be no argument.


If I do that unilaterally there will be a different argument  and one that will never end. It will be tucked away in the armoury and brought up as a fatal blow whenever she really wants to win another argument.

It's not something that will come to a head for several years. It's tough raising two kids, so i'm hoping life grinds away any inclination to take on more hassle


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

GB70 said:


> It's not something that will come to a head for several years. It's tough raising two kids, so i'm hoping life grinds away any inclination to take on more hassle


She really should be spayed before several years. Each heat a bitch has increases her chances of developing mammary tumors, and every heat is a risk of pyometra.

If I remember right she's not a color that should be bred from anyway. The world is not short of frenchies. Spay her and don't put her through the dangers of pregnancy and whelping. Enjoy her as a loved family pet.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

GB70 said:


> One of her childhood dogs was a Basset hound that had a really strong maternal instinct. Apparently she really pined for pups and went a little "crazy" until they finally let her have a littler. Or so the story goes.


She was probably suffering through phantom pregnancies, rather than wistfully wishing she could be a mum


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

GB70 said:


> wife on the other hand has the notion it's cruel not to let them have atleast one litter.


I don't want to sound unkind but if your wife could imagine the notion of giving birth without having a family to raise at the end of it, she might see it differently.


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

You’re all preaching to the choir here 

The high risk of C section is enough to put me off.


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> She really should be spayed before several years. Each heat a bitch has increases her chances of developing mammary tumors, and every heat is a risk of pyometra.


Thanks, I didn't realise waiting may increase the risk associated with spaying.



O2.0 said:


> If I remember right she's not a color that should be bred from anyway. The world is not short of frenchies. Spay her and don't put her through the dangers of pregnancy and whelping. Enjoy her as a loved family pet.


The two dilution genes she carries are recessive. So she could be bred as long as the sire didn't carry either. The pups would all carry one of each recessive gene. But it wouldn't present.

Its only if the Sire also carried that you could end up with Lilacs.


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

BlueJay said:


> She was probably suffering through phantom pregnancies, rather than wistfully wishing she could be a mum


Probably. But the seed is planted now, so it's just a case of arguing it through.


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## LotsaDots (Apr 15, 2016)

The cat vs dog debate is interesting. I love cats we have always had them and when I 1st moved away from home and in with the BF (now husband) I went and got a kitten when he was away! Then a year later brought another home my mum had found in her barn. Alf our 1st cat was a massive black beast I used to wear him as a scarf round the house! He was hit by a car and killed outside our house a few years back, it was devastating. We still have Sid, a little tabby, he's 12 now and spends most of his time sleeping on our spare bed, he does like a fuss and the odd swipe at the puppy tho! I would love to get another but after Alfie I'm too worried altho there are lots of cats on our road and it isn't busy I don't want to go through that again.


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

JoanneF said:


> I don't want to sound unkind but if your wife could imagine the notion of giving birth without having a family to raise at the end of it, she might see it differently.


I don't think that argument will work. She grew up in a small village. They owned farmland, animals, etc. Her grandmother used to rear pigs that they'd slaughter once a year.

When it comes to animals she has a completely different view to me. Mixture of caring with some pragmatism and some old world ideas.

Good thing we live in a city


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

One thing about intact bitches is that they do have an annoying habit of coming in season at inconvenient times ! My older one always came in season at the end of a holiday which meant added presure of keeping her and the accomodation clean , no off-lead walking, her miserable and needing to pee in the night... and of course very few kennels would accept an in-season bitch. Seasons last 3-4 weeks and usually happen twice a year , fortunately Tango only had one a year , but it was such a relief to get her spayed and good-bye to all that.
She was actually spayed at 13 y.o due to developing pyo but was so well and happy afterwards in spite of already having mammary tumours.
Something else to think about!


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

SusieRainbow said:


> One thing about intact bitches is that they do have an annoying habit of coming in season at inconvenient times ! My older one always came in season at the end of a holiday which meant added presure of keeping her and the accomodation clean , no off-lead walking, her miserable and needing to pee in the night... and of course very few kennels would accept an in-season bitch. Seasons last 3-4 weeks and usually happen twice a year , fortunately Tango only had one a year , but it was such a relief to get her spayed and good-bye to all that.
> She was actually spayed at 13 y.o due to developing pyo but was so well and happy afterwards in spite of already having mammary tumours.
> Something else to think about!


Funnily enough I know that feeling because I've managed to book a few hols which coincided with my wife's time of the month. Always got a good telling off 

Apparently using pools/etc is a PITA. But of course she's not moody and irritable  (just in case she reads this).


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## LotsaDots (Apr 15, 2016)

Unless you are going to breed from them I just don't really see why people leave bitches intact. We had Dottie done after her 1st season I don't think she is sad because she never had babies or that we took something away from her (I've seen a lot of crap on Facebook! ) The little stray we had for a bit wasn't spayed and it was a right pain when she surprised us by coming in to season on holiday (vet said he could feel some scar tissue so thought she'd been done) fortunately she was a miserable git and fended off all dogs male or not!


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

LotsaDots said:


> New Unless you are going to breed from them I just don't really see why people leave bitches intact.


Because it does come with some negatives too and it is a big thing; not something to rush into without weighing up all the pros and cons. I have met countless people who bitterly regret it and are absolutely convinced their bitches are more nervy post spay.

It also increases the risk of sarcoma, mast cell tumours and another couple of cancer types i forget now.

Coat changes, urinary incontinence, obesity are some other factors to weigh up.

It does of course bring advantages too - im not anti spay at all but it isnt something to be undertaken lightly. Wasnt it illegal in Sweden til quite recently? There are as many cons as pros really.


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

LotsaDots said:


> Unless you are going to breed from them I just don't really see why people leave bitches intact. We had Dottie done after her 1st season I don't think she is sad because she never had babies or that we took something away from her (I've seen a lot of crap on Facebook! ) The little stray we had for a bit wasn't spayed and it was a right pain when she surprised us by coming in to season on holiday (vet said he could feel some scar tissue so thought she'd been done) fortunately she was a miserable git and fended off all dogs male or not!


I guess some people don't want to put the dog through any "unnecessary" procedures and possible complications. Could also be financial, as I believe it isn't "cheap".

Also some may want to leave their options open. As I said, the only reason I'd ever consider it is sentimental, i.e. always having a dog descended from her. But I'm not sure thats a good enough reason to put her through it since she'd have a high chance of C section.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

The weight gain thing with spaying is really a myth. Weight is down to calories and activity. 
If you're worried about hormones and keeping the ovaries that produce them intact, there is the option of an ovarian sparing spay. The bitch retains all her hormones but the risk of pyometra and pregnancy is eliminated. 
My only hesitation with an OSS would be a) if I had an intact dog in the home, that's a lot to ask of a male, and the bitch will still have heats, and b) if the bitch suffered with hormonal issues like false pregnancies or just not doing well while in heat, an OSS wouldn't remedy any of that.

Spaying is not expensive when you consider the general expenses of owning a dog. 
It's certainly not at all expensive when you consider the cost of a C-section or emergency spay because of pyo or surgery to remove mammary tumors.



GB70 said:


> The two dilution genes she carries are recessive. So she could be bred as long as the sire didn't carry either. The pups would all carry one of each recessive gene. But it wouldn't present.
> 
> Its only if the Sire also carried that you could end up with Lilacs.


You would still be adding those dilution genes in to the gene pool. And you would be creating dogs and bitches who are carriers. Why add to a problem when you have a chance of removing it?

I posted this in the lockdown puppy thread, but I feel like it's worth repeating here. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. And people breeding for frivolous reasons are part of the problem. 
With a breed as ubiquitous as frenchies, and with as many health issues, there is no reason to breed any dog that's not a stellar representation of the breed that's going to contribute to making the breed healthier. Not continue to carry problematic issues.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Going back to the name thing I have a German spitz whose kc name is Let Rumour Begin and another named Rumours Have Started. The reason being no one knew Yogi existed or I was having him the breeder gave him to me then a year later she gave me a bitch Rumour again no one knew I was having a bitch so rumours started about me breeding with her hence the name. As it is she has never been shown and will never have pups as she is tiny smaller than even my chihuahuas she should be a minimum of 9" and is actually less than 8"


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

O2.0 said:


> The weight gain thing with spaying is really a myth. Weight is down to calories and activity.
> If you're worried about hormones and keeping the ovaries that produce them intact, there is the option of an ovarian sparing spay. The bitch retains all her hormones but the risk of pyometra and pregnancy is eliminated.
> My only hesitation with an OSS would be a) if I had an intact dog in the home, that's a lot to ask of a male, and the bitch will still have heats, and b) if the bitch suffered with hormonal issues like false pregnancies or just not doing well while in heat, an OSS wouldn't remedy any of that.
> 
> ...


Valid or not, I suspect cost/complications/etc are reasons some don't spay.



O2.0 said:


> You would still be adding those dilution genes in to the gene pool. And you would be creating dogs and bitches who are carriers. Why add to a problem when you have a chance of removing it?
> 
> I posted this in the lockdown puppy thread, but I feel like it's worth repeating here. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. And people breeding for frivolous reasons are part of the problem.
> With a breed as ubiquitous as frenchies, and with as many health issues, there is no reason to breed any dog that's not a stellar representation of the breed that's going to contribute to making the breed healthier. Not continue to carry problematic issues.


Yes those genes would remain in the gene pool, but not be expressed. Is that more of an issue then the genes that she'd pass on which give her the short snout and tail given those will definitely be expressed? As I said in the other thread, I struggle to see the huge distinction between those breeding FB's with short snouts/tails/etc and those breeding for colour. If the pre-requisite for breeding FB's is going to be producing healthier dogs, then they aint gonna look anything like FB's we recognise today. That goes for quite a few breeds.

Anyway, I couldn't resist responding this time, but will try my best to avoid going forward as I dont want to contribute to derailing another thread.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

GB70 said:


> but will try my best to avoid going forward as I dont want to contribute to derailing another thread.


This thread was never on any real rails - it has taken many a surprising turn. Can i talk about what im going to cook for tea on it?

Maybe macci cheese for the family tonight. That is what has been requested so id better crack on with it.


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabelmabel said:


> This thread was never on any real rails - it has taken many a surprising turn. Can i talk about what im going to cook for tea on it?
> 
> Maybe macci cheese for the family tonight. That is what has been requested so id better crack on with it.


I spoiled myself with a nice Lobster Bisque  after walking Posy and getting caught in the rain. I dont know why I keep trusting the iPhones rain predictions.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

GB70 said:


> I spoiled myself with a nice Lobster Bisque


Oooh that sounds posh! Are you a house husband? I have noticed you are very involved with childcare, puppy care and now cooking posh food! Is there no end to your talents?!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

tabelmabel said:


> Oooh that sounds posh! Are you a house husband? I have noticed you are very involved with childcare, puppy care and now cooking posh food! Is there no end to your talents?!


Carry on like this and I shall be pming Mr Tabelmabel.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Ha ha mr tabelmabel and i came to an agreement that i could have lots of kids as long as he earned the money and i did absolutely everything else.

Luckily i took to the life of a 50s housewife like a duck to water! He is brave with big spiders, puts the bins out and . . . .oh earns the money of course


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

tabelmabel said:


> Ha ha mr tabelmabel and i came to an agreement that i could have lots of kids as long as he earned the money and i did absolutely everything else.
> 
> Luckily i took to the life of a 50s housewife like a duck to water! He is brave with big spiders, puts the bins out and . . . .oh earns the money of course


See that's where my ex fell short; I did everything around the house and earned the money. That is how one gets rehomed. I'm glad he catches the spiders for you it took me two hours to apprehend one here.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Oh he definitely has his uses! He is even popping up to the shop just now as im out of milk.

And - to be fair- i do like to do everything myself. He is an absolute liability in the kitchen bless him! He is banned from touching all household appliances bar the kettle. He does a good brew but there was nearly a dishwasher divorce. And we cant mention the Magimix . . .


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## GB70 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabelmabel said:


> Oooh that sounds posh! Are you a house husband? I have noticed you are very involved with childcare, puppy care and now cooking posh food! Is there no end to your talents?!


Tempted to take the credit, but i'm a rubbish cook (sins of my mother who spoiled me). I buy it and then tart it up with some fresh lobster from M&S 

WRT house husband, kind off. I front loaded all of my hard work, spending most of my 20's/early 30's working around the world. I wanted to be there for my kids as much as possible when I eventually had them, so delayed parenthood to mid 30's. Now I work from home and run my own company. So have the luxury of being there for the kids (and now dog). My wife also works part time, so she still does a lot of the house work and parenting/etc.

As much as they annoy me, I really do love being there for them all the time. I drop (pre covid) my eldest to school, pick her up, do her homework with her, etc. Take youngest (pre covid) to playgroup during the afternoon. I have the luxury of fitting my life around them.

Although with these things there's always a downside. Main one being I worry I've taken grandparent time away from them. I still have one grandmother left, a privilege I fear my kids won't have  when they reach my age.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Actually what is going to be really annoying - he has gone up for milk but he is going to come back with a ton of chocolate and crisps. And im trying to lose weight. He will eat them all in front of me tonight . . . .he is rake thin too. Most unfair!


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

This thread really has gone off the rail @tabelmabel but at least it's not dead. Your hubby sounds great I love a brew and a choccie bar.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

OP has been banned and this thread has outlived its usefulness. :Locktopic


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