# Rabbits and Rats?



## franzipantz (Nov 8, 2012)

I have two 6 month old rats living in the same room as my 8 week old rabbit. The rats are bucks from the same litter, very tame and friendly, never bite humans but they do fight with each other a lot, because that's perfectly normal. The rabbit is also a buck, very inquisitive and not at all nervous.

Obviously their cages are separate and I let them out for free-roaming at different times but I'm just curious - do you think they could ever get along? I've heard of people keeping lots of different animals together - cats and dogs, cats and rats etc - but knowing them as I do, I think my ratties would feel threatened by the bunny and might try to attack him.

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing?


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2012)

You're best to keep the two separate, I have both rabbits and rats and they never meet


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

your best to keep them both seperate, theres no need for the 2 species to ever meet and they are both more then capable of hurting each other.
you should also look into getting the bunny a friend, a lone rabbit is never a happy rabbit, the best matches are neutered male/spayed female pairs


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## franzipantz (Nov 8, 2012)

Yeah...I'm kinda getting that impression on my own! I only moved Boo in here this morning, because he makes so much noise in the night. He's been happily playing out all day while the rats were in bed but when I put him in his cage and got them out for free roaming they immediately started trying to force their way into the cage (they wouldn't succeed, but still!) and one of them lunged at him while he was drinking water. They've been put away now but clearly I can't do this every day. I might have to think about keeping them in separate rooms. Or maybe get an outdoor hutch to keep inside? They have that mesh.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Your bun really needs lots of space to run and play ALL the time - is there a way you can provide that with a ratproof mesh? If not, separate rooms seem the best way to go.

We juggle rabbits and cat here.

In the past, we had a cockatiel and gerbils, both free running in the evenings. Until the gerbils started chasing the cockatiel. Then we had to rethink.

It's a learning curve with pets.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

a hutch or a cage isnt suitable to keep your bun in im afraid, he needs a minimum of 6ft x 6ft square to hop around in at any one time, be this a whole room to hop around in, OR a cage/hutch, with an attached run/pen


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## Louiseandfriends (Aug 21, 2011)

Rats and rabbits should live with *friends of their own kind. * xx


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## franzipantz (Nov 8, 2012)

His cage is on the small side - not too small, it's meant for guinea pigs and rabbits - but he's only 8 weeks so he's still tiny. I do intend to get a bigger one in the new year but, just to clarify, he's not in it all day. He's in there while I sleep and in the day I have him out in this large living room that connects to the kitchen. He has plenty of space and I leave his cage open, so he often goes back inside of his own accord to chill out, eat hay etc.

Still, even if I get a hutch for him indoors the rats will have to be in their cage all day long and, when they're out, he'll have to be in his cage. Not ideal. Hmm, what to do...

Louiseandfriends - the rats do live with friends of their own kind and I would never try to have them actually living with my rabbit, and they will not even interact after the advice I've seen above and what I witnessed earlier. What I'm trying to work out now is where to keep them in my house. And I know it's controversial to keep Boo as a lone bunny but I work from home and am with him all day. If Boo starts to seem sad and I know it's nothing I can help with, I will get him a friend, but many people keep lone bunnies and they are perfectly happy. Here's a thread from another bunny forum discussing it: http://goldenbunnies.org.uk/showthread.php?5246-I-am-an-unacceptable-rabbit-owner


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## Louiseandfriends (Aug 21, 2011)

Aso Your rabbit NEEDS a *friend* and at *least 50 square foot *of space 24/7.  xx


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

when your asleep your rabbit will be at one of the most active points in his day, he needs acses to 6ft x 6ft square at all times, unless your cage is that big then its not fair to lock him away
i dont really care what that forum has to say either, admin keeps her own rabbit as a lone rabbit and will do anything to justify her own actions.
no rabbit should have to live alone just because we want them to, we can not mimic the interaction and socilization they get from their own kind, unless of course you are willing to curl up on the floor snuggled over said bun licking him clean........ and of course you cant talk bunny either, imagine your stuck in a room with only birds for company, you never have another human being to talk to, you would go mad

you are not a rabbit, you can not make up for lack of rabbit company, no matter how hard you try, or how much you love him, or how much time you spend with him, on his own your bunny will be bored, lonely, and most probably pretty depressed


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2012)

That thread is 5 years old, opinions and knowledge changes over time 

Also as Lil Miss said the admin of that forum (the thread starter) keeps a lone rabbit and uses a million and one excuses to justify it.

Rabbits need company, lone rabbits will suffer either silently or by expressing stereotypical behaviours. They are a prey species that relies on group members to stay safe so a lone life is very stressful.

It has actually been scientifically proven that neutered and bonded rabbits live a much longer life than lone entire rabbits and if that isn't enough it has also been proven that lone rabbits won't express certain behaviours (I think a lone rabbit will only express 4/5 different behaviours, whereas a rabbit with company will express many, many more).

And besides if you don't get Boo a friend you won't be treated to sights such as this:


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## Louiseandfriends (Aug 21, 2011)

Nor this



















Isn't not really right to keep them alone, is it?

Look at the siggy.  xx EDIT: oh sorry, I changed it lol.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

I agree -rabbits really do need company of their own kind.

Just occasionally though, there can come along an "unbondable" bunny - there was one at our local centre - adorable with humans, but vicious with other bunnies, even with a very experienced bonder. 

These rabbits have no choice but to live alone - either as a house bunny where they are guaranteed lots of human company and interaction, or in inside/outside accommodation alongside other bunnies, with a view to later trying to bond them together.

Never say never.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

Summersky said:


> I agree -rabbits really do need company of their own kind.
> 
> Just occasionally though, there can come along an "unbondable" bunny - there was one at our local centre - adorable with humans, but vicious with other bunnies, even with a very experienced bonder.
> 
> ...


iv had plenty of "unbondable" rabbits in my time, i have never once failed to bond them with some bun who their personalities match  not every bun will like every other bun, you need to make a choice based on their own personalities


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

I agree that should never give up, and of course you can't just put any old pretty bunnies together - you have to know and match their personailites- two dominant bunnies would struggle, whereas dominant/passive would be much easier.

But sometimes the time just is not right for a bun. Some rescue buns have been through hideous experiences. I would deem a very few of these the unbondables -sometimes you need to work with them first, and then try a very softly, softly approach, ratheer follow the traditional appproach. 

One of our buns came as a single, far too young baby with behaviour problems. He flew instantly at every single bun. After many, many attempts with side by side intros,etc., he has gone to live side by side with a bonded pair.

The aim is to eventually bond him in, when he is more settled and has begun to enjoy the company of his own kind, rather than feel threatened by them. For now, I would describe him as unbondable.

But like I say "never say never".


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

It's not hard to bond 2 rabbits. I bought one because I wanted a agouti nethie girl , then a year later decided I wanted another one. I certainly didn't go looking for one that had the right 'personality' (its a rabbit, not a dog) to match mine. I bought my second because it was a blue eyed white nethie girl what I wanted. I had enough trouble finding one, and as she came from 200 miles away they would either get along or they wouldn't, simples. I put them in a room together and watched them for a bit and now their always curled up together. It's not really that difficult to do


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> It's not hard to bond 2 rabbits. I bought one because I wanted a agouti nethie girl , then a year later decided I wanted another one. I certainly didn't go looking for one that had the right 'personality' (its a rabbit, not a dog) to match mine. I bought my second because it was a blue eyed white nethie girl what I wanted. I had enough trouble finding one, and as she came from 200 miles away they would either get along or they wouldn't, simples. I put them in a room together and watched them for a bit and now their always curled up together. It's not really that difficult to do


oh really, so your a human not a dog, does that mean you get on with every one 
any thing that lives has a personality, if personalities clash, they will not live in harmony.
simples


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> It's not hard to bond 2 rabbits. I bought one because I wanted a agouti nethie girl , then a year later decided I wanted another one. I certainly didn't go looking for one that had the right 'personality' (its a rabbit, not a dog) to match mine. I bought my second because it was a blue eyed white nethie girl what I wanted. I had enough trouble finding one, and as she came from 200 miles away they would either get along or they wouldn't, simples. I put them in a room together and watched them for a bit and now their always curled up together. It's not really that difficult to do


You my dear was very lucky, please don't advocate dangerous methods, the way you went about bonding could have very well ended up with injured rabbits.

I have bonded many rabbits over my time (including groups of 5) and I can tell you that bonding rabbits is ALL about matching personalities. You were just lucky that the rabbit you picked up was the right match (especially as you didn't bother to spay ).

This answers the question that I couldn't be bothered to answer that you posted on my visitors wall btw


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Gosh Wobbles, you were really, really lucky - they could have instantly hated each other and fought to the death, left in a big space unsupervised.

It can sometimes be love at first sight, but you really need to know if a bun is dominant or passive, bold or anxious, before plunging in.

Knowing personalities is key to avoiding unnecessary injuries, but I am glad you and your buns got away with it on this occasion.


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## Louiseandfriends (Aug 21, 2011)

When got Trixie, I tried to match Buddy's interests. We knew he'd love a girlie after Bella and tried to get a reasonably small, calm doe for him. When I got Billie, I made sure I had a sociable piggie would I though would be willing to be with another. 

I admit, it's not easy to match personalities. I've very lucky to have done 2 instant rabbit bonds. I know that's never always the case. Billie and Poppy were so difficult!


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

My mistake, I was just trying to offer some advice to the OP, that bonding rabbits wasn't that difficult so it wouldn't put them off. It was purely based on my own experience, not what I've read online or in books, so I thought if it worked for me it would for someone else too. 

B3rnie, as far as I know, and remember!, I haven't left you any messages? If you mean those red and green dot things, I certainly haven't left anything as I have no idea how to use them!

Lil Miss how can rabbits clash because of personality? In the wild they all live in big groups together, where you wouldn't have the first clue what their like. Not being snarky, just wondering?


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Wobbles, if you ever get the chance, it's worth just taking time to sit and watch true wild bunnies - there is a colony in the grounds of UEA. They graze alongside each other, but with a "respectful" distance between each other. If one moves too close,, the other either moves away (still munching), or chases the other away.

From that, I presume they have already worked out their heirarchy.

In our set ups, however big our enclosures, they are still unnaturally small.

I have seen a lady who has free running domestic bunnies in her garden. We were able to release 2 half wildies into her garden with no problem whatsoever, and no prior bonding - but she knew where in the garden to release them, based on the characters of the bunnies there.

Within the group, some kept to one part of the garden, others kept to the other end. The bunnies developed their own "friendships" within the whole group too. If a less preferred bun came too close it was chased away, but we saw no fighting.

I think it was the huge space that allowed this relaxed approach.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

for me the best way to explain it is to compare it to putting two people together that both speak different languages so cant communicate with each other.

bonding of rabbit can go fine, but it can also go very wrong. in my experience it normally goes better than what you expect, but ive also had it be very distressing to watch. it needs to be done very carefully in the right environment.

oh and also they *MUST* be neutered beforehand!


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

Summersky said:


> Wobbles, if you ever get the chance, it's worth just taking time to sit and watch true wild bunnies - there is a colony in the grounds of UEA. They graze alongside each other, but with a "respectful" distance between each other. If one moves too close,, the other either moves away (still munching), or chases the other away.


i absolutely *LOVE* sitting there and watching them in their natural habitat over the UEA, well when i dont have Bow Sami-dog as she is partial to the taste of rabbit.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

I think they study the colony there because they seem to have developed an immunity to myxi, so they are very unusual. I just think they are cute to watch.


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

Summersky said:


> I think they study the colony there because they seem to have developed an immunity to myxi, so they are very unusual. I just think they are cute to watch.


yer they had a conservation area there a while back, i think the project has finished now.


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