# Crate Training - Good or Bad!!!!



## turkeylad (Mar 1, 2009)

When you were growing up, did your friends have dogs? Were these dogs housebroken and generally well-behaved? Odds are the answer is, "Yes". Then I ask you, were these dogs kept in cages? Odds are your answer is "Never!".

Several Years ago a new phenomenon emerged among dog trainers called "crate-training". As far as I am concerned, "crate-training" is simply a euphemism of keeping a dog in a cage.

Crate-training (I'm going to refer to it as "caging" from here on), was touted as the perfect solution to the problem of housebreaking. And it was. After all, dogs kept in cages didn't have access to their owner's homes and carpets.

Caging relies on the fact that our dogs are clean by nature and won't soil where they have to sleep or stay. But caging never teaches a dog how to be housebroken. In essence, it's an avoidance technique which doesn't address the task of housebreaking.

people who have caged their dogs for housebreaking purposes just don't seem to know when they can trust there dog enough to let him out of the cage.

For years, responsible professional breeders have cage-trained their dogs successfully. The operative words here are *"responsible professional breeders".*

First of all, these people know how to use cages effectively.

Secondly, good professional breeders devote their time to their dogs.

Being a professional breeder is a full-time job and breeders are generally there with their dogs for most of the day. Since they are there to supervise their dogs, breeders don't need to cage their dogs for hours on end.

This does not hold true for the average family. In the average household, both spouses work outside the home at least 8 hours a day. They also sleep approximately 8 hours. So far that's 16 hours that the dog will be in a cage. Add a couple of hours for shopping, errands and dinner out and you're up to 18 hours a day that the dog is confined.

Three-quarters of a day is too much time for any dog to be confined. If you say that your busy life won't permit you to devote more time to a dog, you're probably better off with a pet that requires less maintenance - *like a fish!*

Instead, housebreaking is achieved by regulating your puppy's food and water intake, putting him on a regular walking schedule, watching your puppy for the tell-tale signs that he has to "go", and confining him in a small gated area (the kitchen is ideal) when you cannot watch him with a hawk eye.

By using gates, you can start off with a small area (sat 3' by 3') and when the puppy has shown he can keep that area unsoiled, you can gradually increase the area of his confinement. As housebreaking proceeds, you'll be giving your puppy more and more space. Your ultimate goal is to give your dog the entire run of your house. Gates afford you the flexibility of increasing the area of confinement - cages do not.

Don't get me wrong, crates (carriers) are important and every dog owner should have one - for transporting your dog. They afford your dog protection when he's in your car and you come to a sudden stop or, heaven forbid, if there's an accident.

And you'll definitely need a crate or carrier for your dog if you plan to do any air travel together. If your dog spends the vast majority of his day in a cage, he'll never have free run of the house.

Another problem that's on the increase is coprophagy - stool-eating. Many a dog confined to a cage would rather eat his or her stool, than have to lie with it in a cage.

I've heard a few misguided dog owners say that there dog likes to sit in his cage. " He feels secure*." What they are really saying is that their dog is not secure in the home environment. The dog feels threatened unless he's caged!*

Other advocates of caging say it gives the dog a place of his own. My dogs have there own bed in my bedroom, but nine times out of ten times theye'd rather curl up and snooze on the living room floor - if that's the room I'm in. My home and my presence is all my dogs need to feel secure!

The so-called "experts" rationalize that cages are okay because dogs evolved from wolves and wolves have denning instincts.

To that I say dogs have been removed from their lupine ancestors for millions of years.

Dogs have been living with man for tens of thousands of years. Even the earliest cave paintings depict dogs as man's companions! We cannot take a dog into our human environment, treat him like a wolf, and expect him to respond like a human.

Our dogs are beloved family members and need to be treated as such. You wouldn't keep your child confined to his room for his entire youth and adolescence, would you? You'd have one maladjusted young person!

You want your child to be an active, full participant in your household and your life. The same goes for our dogs. And cages will never permit this to happen


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## Sypher (Sep 29, 2008)

I used a crate for Harley my Doberman until he was 6 months old. It wasn't for toilet training but because he was very destructive when left, even for short amounts of time.

Sectioning off a small area would not have helped, as it would just of meant a small section of my house was destroyed.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Yes crating CAN be abused but generally it isn't.

Most people DO know how use one effectively and humanely and when to give the dog greater freedom within the house.

They are a bloody godsend if you have children for dog AND child.

Dogs that are crate trained suffer less anxiety when travelling, being kennelled, being kept at a vets for proceedures.

Most dogs spend their time curled up in their own personal bed just getting up every now and again to have a stretch and reposition over night (crates should NOT prohibit this).


Not EVERYONE in the world is a moron TL  Most people would know that 18 hrs a day is too long for a dog to be in a cage ut:


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## turkeylad (Mar 1, 2009)

*Not EVERYONE in the world is a moron TL Most people would know that 18 hrs a day is too long for a dog to be in a cage *

Reading many of the posts on here regardimg crate training - not sure İ would agree with you!!!!:


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Just to add that last sentence is rubbish too.

Oscar is an integral member of this household and has a happy, active and INCLUSIVE little life with us.

Sweeping generalisations are never a great place to start a discussion from. You know that better than most on here


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

turkeylad said:


> *Not EVERYONE in the world is a moron TL Most people would know that 18 hrs a day is too long for a dog to be in a cage *
> 
> Reading many of the posts on here regardimg crate training - not sure İ would agree with you!!!!:


Then those people need "educting" rather than making massive sweeping statements about all crate training.


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## turkeylad (Mar 1, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Then those people need "educting" rather than making massive sweeping statements about all crate training.


My arguement is not a sweeping statement it argues clearly that there is a case for crates and that every dog owner should have one but like so many training devices in the wrong hands they are danderous.


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## kendal (Mar 24, 2009)

or girls are crated at night or if we are going out for a couple of hours. 

at night if they weren't crated then they would either be in the hall or my room. but me wee brother has a habbet of getting up at night ind as Inca is black he could trip over her and fall down the stairs(mum has already done this with both dog and cat) our cat even gets crate at night now. 

the girls don't mind it they just go to sleep for however. 

i was once told by someone that she uses a crate because when she was wee she almost lost he JRT in a house fire because the dog had gotten scared an hid under the stairs he uncle eventually found him alive under some bikes. now she knows that if anything happens all dogs are in the one place and are on rout to the front door. 

my mums dogs were always crated when i was a child both in the flat and when we moved into the house we are in now.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

turkeylad said:


> My arguement is not a sweeping statement it argues clearly that there is a case for crates and that every dog owner should have one but like so many training devices in the wrong hands they are danderous.


"You want your child to be an active, full participant in your household and your life. The same goes for our dogs. And cages will never permit this to happen "

You said cages will NEVER permit that to happen and that's not true.

I disagree that the only "use" for crates is transportation though.


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## corrine3 (Feb 22, 2009)

why bother to make ur thread title 'good or bad' ???? when clearly you've made up your mind already? it should be 'why i dont agree with crates'. i dont really understand the point in your post, your not looking for opinions or answers just want your own opinion heard. i'm my opinion its a waste of a thread ut: all i can say is dont get sucked into an argument people because cleary this is why this has been posted.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

I use a crate for my dog at night. He's left in the house free range the rest of the time, even if we go out. We feel that he feels secure in his crate at night. If he was frightened, he would bark and whine constantly. But he falls straight to sleep, what does that tell you? I feel they are handy for when transporting, at shows and for night time sleeping. I agree that dogs should not be left in them during the day for longer than 3 hours IMO.



turkeylad said:


> Secondly, good professional breeders devote their time to their dogs.


And normal people don't? My dog nearly always has someone at home all the time, and we devote our time and attention to him.


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2009)

> For years, responsible professional breeders have cage-trained their dogs successfully. The operative words here are *"responsible professional breeders".*
> First of all, these people know how to use cages effectively.
> 
> Secondly, good professional breeders devote their time to their dogs.
> ...


Just because some one is a breeder it does NOT mean there any better than just a pet owner at understanding how to creat train dogs! Thats stupied!
People such as BYB use cages alot OVER use them! Doesnt matter who you are, that has nothing to do with how a cage is used! These "professional breeders" could keep there dogs and pups in cage's alday every day..how would you know? you wouldnt! but because they had the correct breeding ethic's IE:-health tests and the like means they dont cage or when they do its done for a short while or correctly! 



> This does not hold true for the average family. In the average household, both spouses work outside the home at least 8 hours a day. They also sleep approximately 8 hours. So far that's 16 hours that the dog will be in a cage. Add a couple of hours for shopping, errands and dinner out and you're up to 18 hours a day that the dog is confined.
> Our dogs are beloved family members and need to be treated as such. You wouldn't keep your child confined to his room for his entire youth and adolescence, would you? You'd have one maladjusted young person!
> 
> You want your child to be an active, full participant in your household and your life. The same goes for our dogs. And cages will never permit this to happen


Just because a pup is created for an hour or some DOES not make them more or less of a family member than some one that leaves there dogs un-created! Thats madness..A dog being shut away for an hour or so while not supervised does not mean there not active..Just because some one creats a dog doesnt mean its not out for the rest of the day or go on long walks! at a young age a pup will sleep alot anyway!! OPPS! must not be active as its asleep on the sofa! bad owner!

I find your post rather sweeping to be fair and misleading! Could you please back up your claimes about the proffesional breeders knowing how to cage properly please? In fact please back up all these "statements" you have stated! Thanks.

and like corrie says, you have titled this thread as "good or bad" yet you have just come on and said how you see things and worded it like its FACTS and to be fair with no proof its far from FACTS!


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

turkeylad said:


> When you were growing up, did your friends have dogs? Were these dogs housebroken and generally well-behaved? Odds are the answer is, "Yes". Then I ask you, were these dogs kept in cages? Odds are your answer is "Never!".
> 
> Several Years ago a new phenomenon emerged among dog trainers called "crate-training". As far as I am concerned, "crate-training" is simply a euphemism of keeping a dog in a cage.


And "collar" is a euphemism for "strap used to pull on a dog's neck", and "lead" is a euphemism for "strap used to drag a dog about"? Names are unimportant - it's all in the use.



> Crate-training (I'm going to refer to it as "caging" from here on), was touted as the perfect solution to the problem of housebreaking. And it was. After all, dogs kept in cages didn't have access to their owner's homes and carpets.


Yes. Used judiciously, crates mean that the dog doesn't get it wrong. It's called "setting the dog up for success" and is a vital part of teaching anything humanely and effectively.



> Caging relies on the fact that our dogs are clean by nature and won't soil where they have to sleep or stay. But caging never teaches a dog how to be housebroken. In essence, it's an avoidance technique which doesn't address the task of housebreaking.


On the contrary. My dog is perfectly well housebroken, thanks. As are most dogs who are crate-trained.



> people who have caged their dogs for housebreaking purposes just don't seem to know when they can trust there dog enough to let him out of the cage.


Wrong. People who crate their dogs know that until a dog is housetrained, it makes sense NOT to trust it not to soil in the house.



> For years, responsible professional breeders have cage-trained their dogs successfully. The operative words here are *"responsible professional breeders".*
> 
> First of all, these people know how to use cages effectively.


So according to you, ONLY professional breeders know how to use crates properly? Rubbish. It isn't rocket science. Breeders do not have the monopoly on treating their dogs properly lol!



> Secondly, good professional breeders devote their time to their dogs.


Agreed. That's rather beside the point though, and should go without saying.



> Being a professional breeder is a full-time job and breeders are generally there with their dogs for most of the day. Since they are there to supervise their dogs, breeders don't need to cage their dogs for hours on end


I don't think you'll find anyone saying it's OK to crate a dog for "hours on end"...



> This does not hold true for the average family. In the average household, both spouses work outside the home at least 8 hours a day. They also sleep approximately 8 hours. So far that's 16 hours that the dog will be in a cage. Add a couple of hours for shopping, errands and dinner out and you're up to 18 hours a day that the dog is confined.


The scenario you are describing would obviously be wrong. Again, I don't think you'll find anyone saying otherwise.



> Three-quarters of a day is too much time for any dog to be confined. If you say that your busy life won't permit you to devote more time to a dog, you're probably better off with a pet that requires less maintenance - *like a fish!*


Quite agree.



> Instead, housebreaking is achieved by regulating your puppy's food and water intake, putting him on a regular walking schedule, watching your puppy for the tell-tale signs that he has to "go", and confining him in a small gated area (the kitchen is ideal) when you cannot watch him with a hawk eye.


A dog should never be left without water. If you withhold water, you are not teaching the dog not to soil in the house - you are making sure that there is nothing in there to come out. Not the same at all and not helpful in the long run - in fact downright unkind.



> By using gates, you can start off with a small area (sat 3' by 3') and when the puppy has shown he can keep that area unsoiled, you can gradually increase the area of his confinement. As housebreaking proceeds, you'll be giving your puppy more and more space. Your ultimate goal is to give your dog the entire run of your house. Gates afford you the flexibility of increasing the area of confinement - cages do not.


And what if someone lives in an open-plan house?



> Another problem that's on the increase is coprophagy - stool-eating. Many a dog confined to a cage would rather eat his or her stool, than have to lie with it in a cage.


Very rare, IMO. And if a crate is used properly, it shouldn't happen anyway.



> I've heard a few misguided dog owners say that there dog likes to sit in his cage. " He feels secure*." What they are really saying is that their dog is not secure in the home environment. The dog feels threatened unless he's caged!*


Wrong. Like it or not, dogs ARE den animals. However secure they feel, they DO often like to snuggle up in a small space.



> Our dogs are beloved family members and need to be treated as such. You wouldn't keep your child confined to his room for his entire youth and adolescence, would you? You'd have one maladjusted young person!
> 
> You want your child to be an active, full participant in your household and your life. The same goes for our dogs. And cages will never permit this to happen


1) Dogs are not people, children or babies.
2) Yet again, NOBODY is suggesting that dogs are crated for excessive amounts of time.


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## Setter (May 5, 2009)

Crates work for me, my dog and family And please don't shoot me down anyone but I have left my pup for 4hrs a couple of times a week and so far he shows no ill effects. Obviously the aim is to let him have free run of the house eventually and then I won't feel guilty about having to go out, but at the mo at least I know he is safe in his crate.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Setter said:


> Crates work for me, my dog and family And please don't shoot me down anyone but I have left my pup for 4hrs a couple of times a week and so far he shows no ill effects. Obviously the aim is to let him have free run of the house eventually and then I won't feel guilty about having to go out, but at the mo at least I know he is safe in his crate.


4hrs a couple of times a week is not a problem in my book 

My dog is 10 months now and sleeps for more than that a day and he doesn't use his crate during the day anymore. He curls up in his bed in the kitchen and if i go out i shut the baby gate on him, no different to him being in a crate really .

He is still crated at night and runs there with a waggy tail when he gets the "bedtime" signal


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Crates gave my dogs a safe place to sleep the same way my children were put in a cot or play pen. 
My dogs love there crates if I move them they go looking for them. 
They sleep in them at night and go in them if we have visitors and they choose to go to bed to get away.
During the day they have free range.


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## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> And "collar" is a euphemism for "strap used to pull on a dog's neck", and "lead" is a euphemism for "strap used to drag a dog about"? Names are unimportant - it's all in the use.
> 
> Yes. Used judiciously, crates mean that the dog doesn't get it wrong. It's called "setting the dog up for success" and is a vital part of teaching anything humanely and effectively.
> 
> ...


These comments are right so many times - we crate our dogs for the first 6 months, after this period we don't need the crate, only using it when we are away - the dogs are loving parts of our family - they are fully house trained - the crate is now in the garage - the doors are open and both the dogs wander in and out as they please - they are in no way nervous in the house without the crate.
Can't agree more about the last 2 points - spot on.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

I have often wondered about what i call "all these modern ideas " ref owning dogs,when i was growing up we always had dogs,they just came to live with us as a family none of this " i must get someone like CM to help me,or other people who say they know how to " read our dogs. Dogs were just part of the family,our dogs did not attend training classes but i never remember our dog being badly behaved,and thats not just not remembering things differently because i was a child,i wonder if we lived a different way of living and dogs did not have to live up to any expectations they were just allowed to be dogs.


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## Rick (Aug 30, 2009)

Sypher said:


> I used a crate for Harley my Doberman until he was 6 months old. It wasn't for toilet training but because he was very destructive when left, even for short amounts of time.
> 
> Sectioning off a small area would not have helped, as it would just of meant a small section of my house was destroyed.


Exactly the same here. The cost of the destruction by our previous Doberman doesn't bear thinking about, we have never had the nerve to add it all up.

Also my family had a Doberman when I was a kid, that one made it's way through a door (ie. burrowed) while we were out and trashed the house.

We rarely leave our dog as it happens but when we do the potential damage is at best impractical, this time we have a crate.


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

hazel pritchard said:


> I have often wondered about what i call "all these modern ideas " ref owning dogs,when i was growing up we always had dogs,they just came to live with us as a family none of this " i must get someone like CM to help me,or other people who say they know how to " read our dogs. Dogs were just part of the family,our dogs did not attend training classes but i never remember our dog being badly behaved,and thats not just not remembering things differently because i was a child,i wonder if we lived a different way of living and dogs did not have to live up to any expectations they were just allowed to be dogs.


I actually agree with what most people have said - both pro crates and anti crates. I think what you have said is very close to what I feel. Dog were domesticated from wolves 100 000 years ago (I am not making this up if necessary I will post links to latest scientific peer reviewed articles if necessary).

Dogs are NOT wolves - some breeds e.g poodle need regular grooming (wolves dont) and many more such examples, so why should we assume that dogs, like wolves, want to sleep in dens. My dogs have always had many beds, some under tables etc, and they do like curling up in small areas, but I wouldnt go so far as to say they are den animals, and even more so, a crate is NOT the only way to ptovide an animal with a den.If the puppy instinct was to stay in this den, then why do most puppies kick up a fuss at first when they are shut in the crate?

I agree crates can be used for protecting the house, and the puppy's safety, but this is NOT THE ONLY WAY, I am afraid to se I see it as the MOST CONVENIENT way. I am NOT saying those you use crates are wrong (when used properly of course). I am just saying that personally I would rather invest more time and mone and find an alternative that doesn't mean I need to have my dog in a cage when I cannot be watching him/her.

There's one more thing I don't understand. Why is it common belief taht it is wrong for dogs to sleep in one' room. I can understand not letting them on the bed (even though personally this is not an issue for me either), but I do not see how letting your dog be in the same room as you at night is wrong. Why is it cruel to leave a dog alone for 8 hours in the day, but recommened to leave it alone for this period of time at night. Yes the dog sleeps, but why not let the odg fall alseep knowing you are right there by his/her side. Domestic dogs, were, after all bred for human companionship.

I am not trying to anthrpopomorphise dogs....but their domestication dates back 10 times further than horses, farm animals etc. I think dogs have an inbuilt ability to pick up on human cues, which is what has made them so succesful e.g. working dogs.

Having said all this, times have changed. I am not syaing we live the way we used to 100s of years ago, so clearly some changes need to be made in the way we look after our dogs, I just don't think crates are a necessary part of this transition.


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## millymol63 (Sep 28, 2009)

turkeylad said:


> When you were growing up, did your friends have dogs? Were these dogs housebroken and generally well-behaved? Odds are the answer is, "Yes". Then I ask you, were these dogs kept in cages? Odds are your answer is "Never!".
> 
> I who know little and am not as well versed as most people on this site have given this post some thought....and I have to say it is very thought provoking.......but I think that its trying to paint a pretty picture of past times....without giving that much thought to the realities of life now....people are mors stressed...life is at a faster pace..we are all expected to keep up....this in return must result in more stress felt by our animals
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2009)

we not going to have any of these sweeping statements backed up?


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## Rick (Aug 30, 2009)

Nah, should never let facts get in the way of a good debate!


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## Jacinth (May 9, 2009)

Hmmn. I didn't crate train my puppy and he was no problem at all. I just watched for the signs for the first week. He was fully house trained at 9 weeks with hardly any accidents at all.

I just didn't see a need to get a crate. He doesn't destroy the house when I'm out (I'm home most of the day anyway) and seems fine without it. I do sometimes leave him in his outside kennel if I'm going be more than 2 hours.


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## madferrit* (Sep 17, 2009)

corrine3 said:


> why bother to make ur thread title 'good or bad' ???? when clearly you've made up your mind already? it should be 'why i dont agree with crates'. i dont really understand the point in your post, your not looking for opinions or answers just want your own opinion heard. i'm my opinion its a waste of a thread ut: all i can say is dont get sucked into an argument people because cleary this is why this has been posted.


i agree with your statement Corrine, this isnt a question and i just feel like its an insult to those that have crate trained their dogs- very successfully!
I do not use a crate but that doesn't mean i dont think anyone else should. Its fine not to agree with something or not to use the same methods as others but there's no need to post a thread insulting people who use crates and claiming they are lazy and cant be bothered to do it "properly".
There is no "golden Rule" for everyone to follow, different methods work for different people and we shouldn't judge each other so harshly when we differ.


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

Actually the first post made a comparrison to our early years when we had and our friends had well behaved dogs, this is true, BUT times have changed, I as a child having a dog could have my dog with me on every occassion possible, I and my friend swould go for walks to the local park, dog in tow, we played in the street the dog was always with us, our mum was at home because that was the norm, nowadays things are different, many families have both parents working, there are more cars on roads, children do not play out as much, tending to go to structured play supervised by adults, thenn they become teens and hang around streets? so all that was available at one time that helped train a dog and socialised it have changed, so different types of training came in, the crate being one of them, I do not agree a dog should spend 18 hours a day in a crate although I have to question that time to be honest, I crate train my dogs as pups this enables me to take my dogs to shows and bench them safely, they can go into the vets for operations and not have the added stress of being crated, I can leave my house to go shopping not worrying if the pup is going to chew through any wiring or chew my kitchen units, because I am not worried about these things(which is the reason many dogs get rehomed into rescues I might add) I can be relaxed and train my dog stress free. crates used correctly are a great tool for the modern home, it does not make dogs any less socialble, my dogs are an important part of my life and are involved in our family life, once they are out of the puppy stage and not destroying things they are allowed to be out of the cage when I am not at home, but I alway leave a crate up because I can use it for time out if the dogs are getting boisterous.

Mo


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## wooliewoo (May 27, 2008)

My 2 have a crate but its rarely used as it should.......they use it as their beds and sleep & eat in them.
Tell them to get in their beds and its off to their crate, 10.30pm they will take them self to their crate. Pick food bowel up and they go to respective crates................no ones forced them but its *their *crate
If i do need to close crate door for any reason they are fine and happy. I do have the crates in kitchen with stable door so they can be shut in there when i go out.

Our new pup will be having a crate to start as she's a little git and if she had the choice she will play all day. She needs to rest and needs a place she can call her own


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## kendal (Mar 24, 2009)

wooliewoo said:


> My 2 have a crate but its rarely used as it should.......they use it as their beds and sleep & eat in them.
> Tell them to get in their beds and its off to their crate, 10.30pm they will take them self to their crate. Pick food bowel up and they go to respective crates................no ones forced them but its *their *crate
> If i do need to close crate door for any reason they are fine and happy. I do have the crates in kitchen with stable door so they can be shut in there when i go out.
> 
> Our new pup will be having a crate to start as she's a little git and if she had the choice she will play all day. She needs to rest and needs a place she can call her own


lol im the same Echo and inca do that. i have found myself going to bed and checking all the doors are locked and i find that inca is already curld up asleep in her crate.

if im in the room where their crate is watching tv they go in and sleep.

its the same as i remember my mums dogs doing, they would just go there if my brother and i were playing to loud.

its like giving them ther own room,


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## Dougal (Oct 3, 2009)

my puppy was ok in his crate the first few nights - but now he goes mad if I put him in it. I've started leaving him in the kitchen with the door open rather than the bedroom with it closed. He whines for 1/2 an hour but then goes to sleep. I've tried leaving the door open in the bedroom but then he just gets out and pees on the carpet pretty much straight away.

I'd rather have him with me in the bedroom but the kitchen is puppy proof at least.


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## Rick (Aug 30, 2009)

How old is he?


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## Dougal (Oct 3, 2009)

Rick said:


> How old is he?


he's 11 weeks


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2009)

To be honest I dont like crates either.... and I certainly disagree with adult dogs being crated for more than the odd hours during the day in normal circumstances. I generally dont like animals being caged.

But as a training tool it can be used properly and effectively...like any other tool, old or new...during puppyhood in some circumstances, and sometimes in multiple dogs household... 
I just rescued a bitch and I would not trust her and my boy alone together yet so one of them has to be crated for short periods of time for the time being (and so far it seems that it has to be my boy as he is very good natured and does not mind much whilst she goes mental in a cage and WILL get out of it).

As a temporary tool I am oki with it as long as it is done responsibly and with an aim in mind (and that aim should include being able to get rid of the crate or at least not locking it any longer)

I will have to agree with the OP and say that I have my doubts as to whether "most" people use it responsibly because it does seem to me that an awful lot of owners lock their dogs all night and a good part of the working day as well and thats too much for me.

I dont particularly like the new housetraining methods based on crating; i dealt with the mess and the pains of housetraining without a cage and will do so in the future.

I dont particularly like the idea of dealing with destructive behaviour only with a cage; I dealt with SA and destructiveness without a cage and will always attempt to do so in the future

I also agree with the OP that it cannot really be justified on "it gives the dog a secure place" because dogs wont normally need a special secured spot inside the house, most dogs will choose to stay in the room where the owner is anyway and anything (almost) can be a safe den, it does not have to be a metallic cage with a lock in front.

I will not judge people on the basis of whether or not they use a crate but its not a tool that I choose to use with much enthusiasm.

I want to trust my dog and for my dog to be an integral part of the household and that means that in the long-term at least caging is NOT an option

xx


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## amanda123 (Jul 13, 2009)

Fleur said:


> Crates gave my dogs a safe place to sleep the same way my children were put in a cot or play pen.
> My dogs love there crates if I move them they go looking for them.
> They sleep in them at night and go in them if we have visitors and they choose to go to bed to get away.
> During the day they have free range.


Exactly! I wouldn't dream of putting my baby in his room without a cot to keep him safe. Same with my puppy. When the little ones are older and understand danger and boundaries, then I can get rid of the cot and the crate! I only use the crate at night and if I am out of the house, which is maximum 2 hours during the day. It is an aid to housebreaking and teaching rules.

Amanda


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## davehyde (Jul 13, 2009)

looks like the first post was a cut n paste anyway.


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## anne19 (Oct 5, 2009)

i think the crate training is good! my step dad has a staffy male called bruno and hes only 4months old like mine and he used the crate for the dog to go in there at night for bed and taught him to go in there when ever he was tired or they were going out! now he literally will just go in after a walk and have a nice nap and he thouroughly enjoys it, if i could get one i know i deffo would! i think its well worth having certainly if you treat it as a bed for the pup/dog...


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