# "Jug" breeders/owners experience



## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

Just wondering if anyone breeds or owns "Jugs" (Jack Russell cross Pugs) My friend has recently bought a 14 week old Jug bitch and she is one character. He always wanted a pug but cause his Staff is so energetic and playful he never thought it would be fair on a pug to constsntly have a staff wanting to play. He was looking for a jack russell when he came across Jugs. The girl he picked from the litter of seven was picked because she was the most energetic in the litter but with a very pug like face. 

She seems to have the personality and energy of a JRT but the cuteness of Pug. Almost everyone who has seen her or has seen pictures have asked him if he knows if there are more pups available. 

Scarily though alot of people have asked him to breed her when she is old enough so they can have one :/ Someone even offered to pay the stud fee for a pug for him if he would cobsider it. 

So am wondering if these little guys and girls are so popular how many of you own or breed Jugs?


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

i don't think we have anyone who breeds jrtXpug- at least i don't think i've ever seen anyone admit it.
yes they are seeming fairly popular, people assume that the mix will give you a long nosed pug- but you could just as easily end up with a bracheophalic jrt- which would be pretty upsetting to watch it trying to behave like a terrier 

mixes are just that... a MIX of all the parents traits- going back generations!!
once your friend has gotten his little girl spayed the bombardment of questions will soon stop- even before i spayed my little bambi i told people she was just so they'd leave me alone!


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

geordiegaviino said:


> Just wondering if anyone breeds or owns "Jugs" (Jack Russell cross Pugs) My friend has recently bought a 14 week old Jug bitch and she is one character. He always wanted a pug but cause his Staff is so energetic and playful he never thought it would be fair on a pug to constsntly have a staff wanting to play. He was looking for a jack russell when he came across Jugs. The girl he picked from the litter of seven was picked because she was the most energetic in the litter but with a very pug like face.
> 
> She seems to have the personality and energy of a JRT but the cuteness of Pug. Almost everyone who has seen her or has seen pictures have asked him if he knows if there are more pups available.
> 
> ...


not sure there's anyone who breeds them on here , but there used to be someone who had one, although can't remember their name or seeing them post for awhile!


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

kodakkuki said:


> i don't think we have anyone who breeds jrtXpug- at least i don't think i've ever seen anyone admit it.
> yes they are seeming fairly popular, people assume that the mix will give you a long nosed pug- but you could just as easily end up with a bracheophalic jrt- which would be pretty upsetting to watch it trying to behave like a terrier
> 
> mixes are just that... a MIX of all the parents traits- going back generations!!
> once your friend has gotten his little girl spayed the bombardment of questions will soon stop- even before i spayed my little bambi i told people she was just so they'd leave me alone!


His main worry is that she might be too active for own good but so far she seems like a fit healthy pup. I think he said he has dog trust vouchers for spaying but am not sure when he is getting her done.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Did the breeder do the relevant health tests on the parent breeds...? Assuming there are any, that is.

If there are vital tests that these breeds need to have to ensure they can't pass health problems on to pups, *and if* this breeder failed to do them, then frankly tell your friend he has just lined the pocket of an UNethical breeder.

Please remind your friend that rescues are bursting at the seams with dogs needing homes - maybe this will dissuade him from breeding from his dog.

Breeding is not something to be gone into lightly or simply for the money.

As it happens, there is a 'jug' at a park that we sometimes visit.


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

My recollection is that these two breeds don't have recommended tests - but they should.

At minimum there should be patella tests. There should be much more for Pugs as well going by prevalence of ailments.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/1100/abshealthreqs.pdf -- none for Pugs. JRTs aren't a recognized KC breed so nothing official there either.

CC


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

I've got a nice pair of Jugs 




Sorry couldn't resist


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

He chose the most active with the most pug like face? Poor puppy. I thought he wanted somethign to keep up with a very active staffy? Why did he choose the one with the most bracheophalic face, then?


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## kaypug (Jun 29, 2012)

A healthy pug would/should be able to keep up with a Staff? My 2 pugs (who are 9 and 11) still play with our Duracell powered Lab..........


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

We walk a dog that's supposedly a Puggle but I think is much more likely to be a JRT xPug. He's great, bags of energy, keeps the labradors on their toes, very loving, but def has that terrier zing about him!

You can never tell what the size is going to be though - maybe he genuinely is a Puggle, just very small and feisty, while another lady I see walking locally has a Jug and he's HUGE and slow and plodding.

I would steer clear of breeding this cross, it sounds like easy money, and when you love your dog it's natural to want more of the same, but do your girl a favour and get her spayed, until then tell other people she already is done.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

geordiegaviino said:


> His main worry is that she might be too active for own good but so far she seems like a fit healthy pup. I think he said he has dog trust vouchers for spaying but am not sure when he is getting her done.


If he has Dogs Trust vouchers that must mean he's on benefits, right?

If you're on benefits you should not be breeding dogs.


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> If he has Dogs Trust vouchers that must mean he's on benefits, right?
> 
> If you're on benefits you should not be breeding dogs.


No I don`t think you do just get DT vouchers for spaying, my sister has a dog from them she got a voucher and she is not on any type of benefit. That was a couple of years ago they may well have changed their policy now.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

3dogs2cats said:


> No I don`t think you do just get DT vouchers for spaying, my sister has a dog from them she got a voucher and she is not on any type of benefit. That was a couple of years ago they may well have changed their policy now.


If you GET a dog from the DT sure, but this puppy was brought, not rescued, therefore this voucher would be for being on benefits from my knowledge (I am not eligible for vouchers as I don't claim for any benefits).


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> If you GET a dog from the DT sure, but this puppy was brought, not rescued, therefore this voucher would be for being on benefits from my knowledge (I am not eligible for vouchers as I don't claim for any benefits).


Ah yes I see that I now. I didn`t realise the DT gave vouchers to any other dogs than those homed from there, see you learn something new everyday


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

cinammontoast said:


> He chose the most active with the most pug like face? Poor puppy. I thought he wanted somethign to keep up with a very active staffy? Why did he choose the one with the most bracheophalic face, then?


He spent ages choosing and tried choosing best he could on all counts. She does have a nice normal looking nose in my opinion so personally am sure she can breathe much better than a pure bred pug but am no breeder and I dont own pugs so I cant really comment on how different her breathing is to a normal pug without sounding like a idiot


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> If he has Dogs Trust vouchers that must mean he's on benefits, right?
> 
> If you're on benefits you should not be breeding dogs.


No he isnt on benifits but his mother is a pensioner so she has voucher. To be honest am not sure how it works. Please dont be a complete fool and think just cause he bought from a breeder who bred Jugs that he is going to instsntly breed off her and better still dont just thonk he is on benifits


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

geordiegaviino said:


> No he isnt on benifits but his mother is a pensioner so she has voucher. To be honest am not sure how it works. *Please dont be a complete fool and think just *cause he bought from a breeder who bred Jugs that he is going to instsntly breed off her and better still dont just thonk he is on benifits


Since everyone here has been polite and taken the time to answer your post, there's really no need for you to be insulting.

We're only going by what YOU tell us. You mentioned the possibility of breeding so we have answered accordingly.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Since everyone here has been polite and taken the time to answer your post, there's really no need for you to be insulting.
> 
> We're only going by what YOU tell us. You mentioned the possibility of breeding so we have answered accordingly.


I have read through this carefully as I knew there would be some odd replies and the only really bad one was from you - it was really quite insulting and completely beside the point.
nothing to do with me but it still put my back up.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

geordiegaviino said:


> No he isnt on benifits but his mother is a pensioner so she has voucher. To be honest am not sure how it works. Please dont be a complete fool and think just cause he bought from a breeder who bred Jugs that he is going to instsntly breed off her and better still dont just thonk he is on benifits


Right, so your friend is using his mothers pension status to take money from a charity, is that the measure of it then? There's no need for the attitude when everyone has been perfectly civil, far more civil than they have been in the past with similar questions quite frankly.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I have read through this carefully as I knew there would be some odd replies and the only really bad one was from you - it was really quite insulting and completely beside the point.
> nothing to do with me but it still put my back up.


So it is 'odd' and 'really bad' of me to try and get this person to dissuade their friend from breeding?

Riiiiight..........

If you don't like my posts, feel free not to read them.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

I have one. He is second hand - I didn't get him from a breeder. I won't go into all the health and testing issues, others have done that but...

He is awesome. He walks up mountains, does agility and flyball and is very cute. He currently has no health issues and is nearly 3. 

I love him to bits and want him to be around forever. Would I buy a jug puppy? No, never, he's a crossbreed. There is a lot of variation. They could be anything from a pug to a JRT, therefore I'd have no idea how he or she would turn out, and if they'd be suitable for my lifestyle. 

I only know of one other "jug" and it's got strange wispy hair, resembles the thing from 5 Children and It but with an underbite and it snorts like crazy - and am always looking at litters for sale out of curiosity and they rarely look like mine - therefore I enjoy my dog for who and what he is, and hope we have many many happy years together and when I want another dog I will be looking for similar characteristics but will look for a dog where they are present either because it's an adult rescue dog or because it's a breed which suits what I want.

I love my dog to bits but I have to accept that as a cross between such varied breeds, he's a one off not to be repeated.  I even purposefully say he's a "terrier cross" when asked what sort of dog he is as I don't want anyone to fall for buying one based on me having mentioned it and him being cute.

Furthermore, he's stockier than a JRT with lovely fur and a dark muzzle - he's muscular and sturdy and fit and healthy... He's loving and cute and clever etc etc etc ... But is he "the ideal combination of a cuddly pug and a healthy terrier" or "the temperament if a pug with a longer nose to make breathing easier" or "an ideal cute small family pet with the laid back nature or the pug and no health issues" or any of the other things it says in the ads? Is he heck!! He's super-lively and a terrier through and through and has taken an immense amount of work to ensure he's well behaved in all situations and not just some sort of raving terrier-lunatic. If anyone bought him to use as purely a lapdog or to entertain their kids they'd regret it pretty quickly. He is living proof that cross breeds are not half and half (or the two "best" halves) of the component breeds.

All that said - would love to see some pictures of other people's JRT x pugs as I am nosy!

Naomi


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> Right, so your friend is using his mothers pension status to take money from a charity, is that the measure of it then? There's no need for the attitude when everyone has been perfectly civil, far more civil than they have been in the past with similar questions quite frankly.


Didnt mean it to come off as bitchy and again you made yourself look foolish by jumping to conclusions. He works and isnt claiming benifits but he lives with his mother in her own home so I guess he is doing everything legal and by the books. Before you question why a grown man lives at home... she had him late in life. So he isnt a middle aged mammys boy lol


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

I would like to apologise for comnents coming off as offensive on here. Its hard to put a point across over the Internet without coming off as worse than you wish it too. I apologise for ussing direct words like "foolish" which can bee seen as insulting directly.

Like I have stated he has had people wanting him to breed her and he has no intention too hence why he is taking advantage of the dog trust voucher. Though I will state if he ever wished to breed he would need advice on health tests and on choosing a correct stud to suit the bitch. 

I was asking for breeders and owners as I wanted to get a idea of how common these dogs are and what their personslities seem to be like. His girl is definitely a Jack Russell at heart


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

I don't know any Jug breeders.

I do know, well, three dogs of this combination that love to play with mine at the dog park. I have quite an affection for them, and knowing 'three' is more than I know in many breeds, so I imagine they have some popularity. Outside of shows I have only ever met four Pugs in my life, three belonging to a breeder, and only briefly. JRTs are a different story. I see lots of those.

CC


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

geordiegaviino said:


> I would like to apologise for comnents coming off as offensive on here. Its hard to put a point across over the Internet without coming off as worse than you wish it too. I apologise for ussing direct words like "foolish" which can bee seen as insulting directly.
> 
> *Like I have stated he has had people wanting him to breed her and he has no intention too hence why he is taking advantage of the dog trust voucher. Though I will state if he ever wished to breed he would need advice on health tests and on choosing a correct stud to suit the bitch. *
> 
> I was asking for breeders and owners as I wanted to get a idea of how common these dogs are and what their personslities seem to be like. His girl is definitely a Jack Russell at heart


It's great that your friend is not planning to breed his girl and also great that if he does consider it, at least you can advise him to be really careful about getting the relevant health tests done - awful for puppies to suffer because people breed carelessly.

The 'jug' I know is a sweet little boy but seems to have a very quiet, reserved temperament, in contrast to the JRs I've met


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> The 'jug' I know is a sweet little boy but seems to have a very quiet, reserved temperament, in contrast to the JRs I've met


The total opposite of mine  :yikes: :rolleyes5:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Did the breeder do the relevant health tests on the parent breeds...? Assuming there are any, that is.
> 
> If there are vital tests that these breeds need to have to ensure they can't pass health problems on to pups, *and if* this breeder failed to do them, then frankly tell your friend he has just lined the pocket of an UNethical breeder.
> 
> ...





Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> So it is 'odd' and 'really bad' of me to try and get this person to dissuade their friend from breeding?
> 
> Riiiiight..........
> 
> If you don't like my posts, feel free not to read them.


I think that going on about health tests (which do not even exist for either of the breeds, but that is beside the point) and telling someone to have a go at their friend for even owning their dog is offensive beyond measure.

The breeding bit was totally OTT as the OP had already said the friend was not going to breed.

Jumping on new posters and parroting things over and over that are irrelevant to the post IS offensive.

Just imagine you go on a forum to see if anyone has a breed (or cross) the same as you (or your friend) already own and dearly love and have someone insulting your choice of dog and laying down the law on what you should or should not have bought and what you should do with it in the future.


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

I'll admit one of the reasons I was so interested in who bred or owned them is cause I really like his girl so much that am considering getting one of my own in the near future. Though I will have to be very careful on who I bought off and ofcourse I would need to be certain that I wasn't putting money in the hands of the wrong type of people


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## muse08 (Dec 21, 2008)

Dont know if jacks have any health issues but with pugs, although the kc has no recommended health tests for them, the breed club does recommend that they have their spines x-rayed to screen for Hemivertebrae before breeding, there is also a DNA test for Pug dog encephalitis, and they should be scored /tested for slipping patella`s.
Have never bred pug crosses so have no idea what their like. But Pugs are a very active busy breed particularly when their pups, and providing they are from healthy sound parents could quite easily keep up with a staff, some even do agility.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

geordiegaviino said:


> I'll admit one of the reasons I was so interested in who bred or owned them is cause I really like his girl so much that am considering getting one of my own in the near future. Though I will have to be very careful on who I bought off and ofcourse I would need to be certain that I wasn't putting money in the hands of the wrong type of people


Depending on what you consider to be 'the wrong type of people' you most certainly will be doing. It depends on where you draw the line though. I think you would be extremely hard pressed to find a breeder who did any health tests for their dogs with this combined matching. I think you'd also be hard pressed to find someone who wasn't in the process entirely just to make money off their dog.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I think if OP hadnt posted in the "breeding" section....she may have got a different reception.

People can get a bit uptight about irresponsible breeding.....rightly so but I dont agree that ALL breeders of crossbreeds do so purely to line their pockets. Every breeder should be taken on their own merits and judged individually.


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> Depending on what you consider to be 'the wrong type of people' you most certainly will be doing. It depends on where you draw the line though. I think you would be extremely hard pressed to find a breeder who did any health tests for their dogs with this combined matching. I think you'd also be hard pressed to find someone who wasn't in the process entirely just to make money off their dog.


I would like to think there are people out there who think of the puppies just as much as pedigree breeeders do. Papers mean nothing to me and alot of kc breeders can be worse than non kc breeders. Truth be told 700 - 1k is outrageous for a pug hence why people like my friend and me feel we have little to no choice but to consider the cross bred Pugs. I know its a risk and chances are I will never get a pup like his but no matter what personality in a pup I get I will own the little tyke till rainbow bridge calls.

I generally believe Pug breeders and other dog breeders. Should look into why people are choosing cross breeds over their perfectly healthy pure breds and they will see its people buying out of fear of spending to much money on a pup and ofcourse some people believe in hybrid vigour in dogs and generally believe their puppy will have a longer life span. Breeders need to tackle this by educating buyers about their breeds life span and the pros and cons of hybrid vigour theories and of course they need to justify on why their puppies are worth the 1k price tag.


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## Smalldogs (Sep 11, 2012)

I've met a few Pug crosses, and own a Chihuahua-Pug cross (a rescue). They've all been smashing little dogs. My main reservation would be that most breeders of "designer dog" crossbreds tend to be pretty ignorant about dog breeding and rarely use health-tested stock. Our own Chi-Pug is an example - bred from two breeds prone to patella luxation, she inherited this problem in both back legs, one serious enough to have her crying in pain and requiring a tibial transplant, the other not bad enough to need an op, so long as we keep an eye on her and limit her exercise to a maximum of an hour's walk. 

I like first-crosses, so long as they're not vaunted as "superior-to-those-dreadful-pedigree-things", but wouldn't recommend breeding from one - second-generation crosses are going to be a more unpredictable mixture, and unlikely to replicate the parents.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I think that going on about health tests (which do not even exist for either of the breeds, but that is beside the point) and telling someone to have a go at their friend for even owning their dog is offensive beyond measure.
> 
> The breeding bit was totally OTT as the OP had already said the friend was not going to breed.
> 
> ...


I didn't *'go on'* about health tests and had you bothered to read my first post properly, you would see I emphasised the 'if' part - i.e. IF there are health tests for these breeds.

Nor did I *'jump on'* anyone and nor did I *'parrot'* anything. I made my points politely. The only person who has caused any issue over my mentioning tests is YOU.

And if you find it '*offensive'* that someone cares enough to mention health tests, given that there are OTHER PEOPLE who read but don't post who may not know about such tests, then that's tough. We are in the BREEDING section so it is totally relevant to mention health tests!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

geordiegaviino said:


> I would like to think there are people out there who think of the puppies just as much as pedigree breeeders do. Papers mean nothing to me and alot of kc breeders can be worse than non kc breeders. Truth be told 700 - 1k is outrageous for a pug hence why people like my friend and me feel we have little to no choice but to consider the cross bred Pugs. I know its a risk and chances are I will never get a pup like his but no matter what personality in a pup I get I will own the little tyke till rainbow bridge calls.
> 
> I generally believe Pug breeders and other dog breeders. Should look into why people are choosing cross breeds over their perfectly healthy pure breds and they will see its people buying out of fear of spending to much money on a pup and ofcourse some people believe in hybrid vigour in dogs and generally believe their puppy will have a longer life span. Breeders need to tackle this by educating buyers about their breeds life span and the pros and cons of hybrid vigour theories and of course they need to justify on why their puppies are worth the 1k price tag.


Why is £700-£1000 'outrageous' if all health tests have been done? Health tests are expensive, and litters with smaller breeds are less in number..


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> Why is £700-£1000 'outrageous' if all health tests have been done? Health tests are expensive, and litters with smaller breeds are less in number..


But health testing only needs to be done once (correct me if am wrong) so why are 2nd and 3rd litters from a fully health tested bitch still 1k? I know there is no money to be made from breeding but sometimes I question how much of a litter of 3 - 6 puppies each selling for 1k... no way can 6k in profit on some litters be completely spent on vet bills and stud fees for a litter xx


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> Why is £700-£1000 'outrageous' if all health tests have been done? Health tests are expensive, and litters with smaller breeds are less in number..


I agree.....breeding is not cheap by any means. I have paid more than 1k for most of my dogs I bought in and didnt begrudge a penny of it.

OP the cost of a raising a litter can...in some cases....costs thousands of pounds. It is a 24/7 job for weeks on end and I think many who do it are dedicated to their breed....no amount of money could compensate for the worry....loss of sleep....hard work and expenditure for practical purposes as well as KC registration...puppy packs etc.

If the reasons for considering taking on a crossbreed is financial motivation.....think again.....because the pup may be cheaper but in the long run could cost thousands in vet care if the breeder cut corners.....that goes for pedigree I
Or crossbred litters.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

geordiegaviino said:


> But health testing only needs to be done once (correct me if am wrong) so why are 2nd and 3rd litters from a fully health tested bitch still 1k? I know there is no money to be made from breeding but sometimes I question how much of a litter of 3 - 6 puppies each selling for 1k... no way can 6k in profit on some litters be completely spent on vet bills and stud fees for a litter xx


Who says the 6k is profit.......c sections.....emergency vet call outs......scans.....vet checks......the constant washing of bedding......whelping equipment......puppy vaccs......puppy packs.......and so on.......


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

geordiegaviino said:


> But health testing only needs to be done once (correct me if am wrong) so why are 2nd and 3rd litters from a fully health tested bitch still 1k? I know there is no money to be made from breeding but sometimes I question how much of a litter of 3 - 6 puppies each selling for 1k... no way can 6k in profit on some litters be completely spent on vet bills and stud fees for a litter xx


My bitch is a Labrador, so larger litters (normally) than a pug.

She had hip scores, elbow grades, 2 x BVA eye certs (first had expired by the time I actually came to mate her) and the genetic tests for PRA and CNM.

Not counting the time I spent researching and deciding on a direction to go with her, I spent probably about £600 on whelping equipment, some of which will need to be replaced, including the whelping box if I do breed again. I had 5 progesterone tests, which isn't common, but two or three certainly isn't unheard of, to determine when she was ovulating, ie the optimum time as I had this one chance left to take a litter. That was £60 each time, plus the fees for the vet drawing blood, plus the petrol costs of taking the test up to Idexx to be processed asap. I then drove across to North Wales from Yorkshire to use a stud dog, went twice, didn't achieve one tie, so petrol costs and stud dog fee of £450. I had Tau scanned once she started looking in whelp, to confirm that was the case before finally ordering the equipment I needed, from memory that was about £60 plus vat. Her food was increased, as normal, so food costs went up considerably during the last few weeks of her pregnancy. As it turned out, she lost her mucous plug early, and went into labour on a Friday night, requiring an emergency c-section as confirmed by a scan, and x-ray, on the Sunday morning, leaving me with a vets bill of over £1,500. Two pups were poorly, and I spent over £200 each trying to treat them, sadly to lose both.

When you start adding up the costs of increased energy bills as well, because you are constantly washing dog bedding and towels every day, and whacking the heating on to dry them out if it's raining, you start to see just how much every little bit adds up. From approximate figures with that one litter, I was £3k down, and I had my bitch spayed because I didn't want any more litters from her. My next litter, if I go ahead, will be either from my flat coat bitch, who is currently 18 months, so it will be at least another year before it happens, so a two year gap between litters, or it will be from the daughter I kept back from this litter, which will be another two years at least, so three year gap.

When you start looking at it like that, there is very little money to be made in breeding dogs. I've got four health tests to do for the flatcoat girl, and I will repeat the same tests for the Labrador bitch I kept back, including the DNA tests to ensure no errors are creeping in with results. That's several hundred pounds outlay with no guarantee I'll even breed. I had one bitch spayed without ever taking a litter from her because her elbow grades weren't good enough.

If breeding is supposed to provide me with some sort of income then I'm doing it wrong! 

That's not to say there aren't those out there who do make some income, some more than others, but then it's up to people to research breeders and try and support those who they agree with ethically, whether or not their balance sheet is in the red or black.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Pugs are not healthy dogs anyway even if they have been health tested, I worked with a lady that showed her pugs all from health tested parents all had special needs one, had kidney trouble from the age of 5, another had digestive issues and the pup that she bought and paid K's for had mange, constant V&D, I did ask her why bother going to the same breeder when all you dogs have issues, her answer they do well at dog shows Then she told me pugs have a low immune system


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

I think I read somewhere when I was looking up Pugs that they are so inbred that if they were a wild species they would be more near-extinct than the Panda. Which is a scary thought cause the Panda is so inbred that its one of the worse major factors in their decline. Cheetahs are even worse and they are believed by some to be on the verge of extinction. 

Another reason why the Pug crosses are selling so well... the hybrid vigour belief is main selling point on all Pug Cross ads I see x


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

The problem with *hybrid vigour*, is that random cross breeding without knowing the health of your breeding stock, is not guaranteed to produce hybrid vigour, you could end up with the health problems of both parents, rather than none from either. 

You're not breeding a separate species, you're still breeding dog to dog, and they are bound to share some genes, some of those are bound to be faulty. 

I think the accurate quote is something like if you looked at the genetic make up for all the pugs in the UK, the genetic diversity would be equal to something like 19 individuals. 

If you look at most pedigree breeds, you can look at what's called the Coefficient of Inbreeding, or CoI, in fact the KC database allows you to calculate this for individual dogs and matings. It isn't as accurate as some databases, but does give a *rough* idea. You don't have the benefit of this with cross bred dogs, so what's to say, someone with a pug x jrt, doesn't advertise on gumtree and try to find themselves a nice local jrt, or pug, to try and breed a litter of jugs, and unknowingly uses a close relative of the parents of their dog? 

There are no guarantees with any dog, but those who breed with health testing, conformation, temperament, and, where applicable, ability in mind, do their best to produce happy, healthy puppies that will make good balanced adult dogs. Unfortunately, they are in the tiny minority of dog breeders, the vast majority breed to make money, and cut as many corners as possible, with cross breeds, the first corner cut is health testing, and the excuse given is hybrid vigour will take care of that bit, of course they have no idea.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

geordiegaviino said:


> I think I read somewhere when I was looking up Pugs that they are so inbred that if they were a wild species they would be more near-extinct than the Panda. Which is a scary thought cause the Panda is so inbred that its one of the worse major factors in their decline. Cheetahs are even worse and they are believed by some to be on the verge of extinction.
> 
> Another reason why the Pug crosses are selling so well... the hybrid vigour belief is main selling point on all Pug Cross ads I see x


The pug is also one of the breeds which is genetically closest to the wolf, closer than a GSD which looks more wolf-ish!

I don't think hybrid vigour is present in these sort of cases. I have a foster dog who is a true mongrel - it's impossible to pinpoint any specific breeds in his make up - and lots of countries who have street dogs, you can see patterns of a "type" emerging which is a true mongrel. These dogs are often healthy and long lived, as the fittest live to breed and are the ones which survive etc, I use the term "hybrid vigour" sometimes, although I think incorrectly, to describe his robust constitution.

Also, the term "hybrid" means crossing of two species - such as a horse x zebra, or a donkey x horse or something I think. Dog are all the same species?


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

missnaomi said:


> The pug is also one of the breeds which is genetically closest to the wolf, closer than a GSD which looks more wolf-ish!
> 
> I don't think hybrid vigour is present in these sort of cases. I have a foster dog who is a true mongrel - it's impossible to pinpoint any specific breeds in his make up - and lots of countries who have street dogs, you can see patterns of a "type" emerging which is a true mongrel. These dogs are often healthy and long lived, as the fittest live to breed and are the ones which survive etc, I use the term "hybrid vigour" sometimes, although I think incorrectly, to describe his robust constitution.
> 
> Also, the term "hybrid" means crossing of two species - such as a horse x zebra, or a donkey x horse or something I think. Dog are all the same species?


Some people like to declare a very limited 'definition' of hybrid and suggest it only applies to the crossing of two species.

That is not the common definition or even the scientific definition.



> In biology and specifically, genetics, the term hybrid has several meanings, all referring to the offspring of sexual reproduction.[1]
> 1.In general usage, hybrid is synonymous with heterozygous: any offspring resulting from the mating of two genetically distinct individuals
> 2.a genetic hybrid carries two different alleles of the same gene - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)





> Definition of hybrid vigor :
> 
> increased vitality (compared to that of either parent stock) in the hybrid offspring of two different, inbred parents. - hybrid vigor : Definition





> Hybrid Vigor - Heterosis
> 
> Hybrid Vigor or Heterosis: An increase in the performance of hybrids over that of purebreds, most noticeably in traits like fertility and sterility (Crossbreeding definition).
> 
> Hybrid Vigor or Heterosis: An increase in the performance of hybrids over that of purebreds from linebred families, most noticeably in traits like fertility and sterility (linebreeding definition).- Hybrid Vigor - Heterosis


Even if you want to argue the definition of 'hybrid', heterosis is a scientific term that indicates the 'usual' increased vitality when you cross two breeds or lines. There are many reasons for this, the predominant one being that inbred lines tend to show weakness in different areas in the first place, and secondly that there is an advantage from having the two alleles at many more gene locations unrelated to each other.

CC


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> . . . There are no guarantees with any dog, but those who breed with health testing, conformation, temperament, and, where applicable, ability in mind, do their best to produce happy, healthy puppies that will make good balanced adult dogs. Unfortunately, they are in the tiny minority of dog breeders, the vast majority breed to make money, and cut as many corners as possible, *with cross breeds, the first corner cut is health testing,* and the excuse given is hybrid vigour will take care of that bit, of course they have no idea.


But we are speaking here to two breeds that are not commonly health tested for anything, or much of anything, not even by those at the top.

What is the excuse given there as 'hybrid vigour' certainly isn't usable?

There are excuses given all the way around so to target 'hybrid vigour' and try to play it down is an odd way to go in my mind. The message has to be about bad breeders not their selling ploys as everybody uses selling ploys and many of those 'ploys' are used because they do have some merit.

This always raises a question in my mind.

How can people rail on about crossbreeders not health testing, or knowing the 'health' info from gens back, when we have full breeds where commonly this is the way to breed . . . and where this commonly happens even with those involved in the fancy?

I don't believe we can levy the assertion "the first corner cut is health testing" against cross breeders when health testing is not commonly done in the parent breeds, and have it mean anything. We have to, at the same time, call the pure breeders out in this case or decide, possibly, that in some populations the occurances of difficulties are low enough that breeders simply track as they go and react accordingly.

We have parent breeds where the occurances of difficulties is considered low enough that the idea of 'no health testing required' gets by in the breed. Why can there not be recognition that in some crosses the situation should be the same? . . . Yet I don't believe a crossbreeder COULD get by by saying 'the odds are so low they don't merit a test'.

I'm not on about this because I don't believe in health testing. I DO believe in health testing. I DO believe in utilizing line history. I also believe in the honest assessment of risks and odds. I DO believe the prevalence of problems, and the odds of encountering them HAVE to be considered in these decisions, and scientifically, yes, whether or not someone is breeding in a closed or open population WILL tip the odds of deleterious recessives pairing up.

Hybrid vigour might stick in the craw of those that breed in pure populations, but it DOES help with regard to odds - of course no guarantees but it is odds, and not guarantees, that people are looking at. The common people I know (from rural farming area here) are too well aware of this and will tune completely out any message that tries to relate elsewise. I can state right now that that is why registry breeding has never caught on here although there are pockets of populations where purebreds are popular.

I suggest acknowledging hybrid vigour, in its advantages and disadvantages (usually favoring the larger size of the purebred counterparts and less predictability) and moving forward by also relating the advantages of registry breeding. The selling point of purebred dogs IS their predictability. Their market is for those that want predictability and the novelty of a purebred. There should not be a war waged with crossbreeders generally nor with the idea of hybrid vigour. There are enough homes for all that breed with care.

There should be a general message that all NEED to breed with care, no matter what they are breeding and SL I know that is the message you promote as do I.

Customers will pick from there what gambles they want to take.



Sleeping_Lion said:


> . . . There are no guarantees with any dog, but those who breed with health testing, conformation, temperament, and, where applicable, ability in mind, do their best to produce happy, healthy puppies that will make good balanced adult dogs.. . .


And we need more of them all the way around.

Geordiegaviino if you are considering purchasing for yourself please be careful to support a breeder who is passionate, who is researching, who is caring well for their dogs and backing their pups if they don't work out. Make SURE the parent dogs are what has been advertised. Despite the fact that many breeders will not be health testing, patellas and eyes, at minimum, should be done. More should really be done for the Pug parent.

Many health tests are not just done once. Many are done yearly - x-rays for the Pug spine being one that I understand should be updated, and eye tests (in both breeds) as well are yearly, not just done once. Patella checks should be done at the vet and that is usually a one-time test, but patellas can fail in age as well.

If anyone is considering breeding Jug x Jug a whole host of problems AND unpredictables will immediately get lined up . . . not a route if you don't want headaches as you will need to fully understand the ins and outs of both the Pug and JRT breeds and then you will still be met by a myriad of traits that cannot be predicted until you watch the litter grow . . . years of research.

As for the price of pups, the breeders I know give up at least a few weeks of their lives to be home and hover over the pups. There is no way, price wise, any customer could pay them enough for the time and care they put it. They charge what the market will bear as there is no possible way most who want a pup would pay the full worth of a well raised pup.

CC


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

comfortcreature said:


> But we are speaking here to two breeds that are not commonly health tested for anything, or much of anything, not even by those at the top.
> 
> What is the excuse given there as 'hybrid vigour' certainly isn't usable?
> 
> ...


CC I give credence to your argument in theory, but unfortunately, in reality what is happening are people are simply bunging two dogs together, many aren't even a simply JRT x Pug, they are 3/4 JRT, or 3/4 Pug, which begs the question, if they used local dogs, were those dogs related. I doubt very much if the vast majority of people breeding *jug* cross breeds in this country, have any plan at all, except to leap on the back of the hybrid vigour theory, without any proof whatsoever that their pups will have hybrid vigour. They merely quote it, because it makes their pups more saleable, they don't know it for a fact.

And the problem with breeding pugs within a cross breed, is that if there are only 19 individuals genetically speaking, if you breed a *jug* and then decide to breed that dog to a pug, where is your hybrid vigour? It's going very quickly down the drain. Even if you bred to another *jug* you have no real diversity, and with many of these poor animals the *breeders* aren't selecting a dog for anything other than it's convenience to their location.

The only reason *hybrid vigour* makes me roll my eyes, is because generally speaking, it's done by the absolute ignorant when it comes to breeding in this country, and they then spout this phrase as if they understand the complete genetics of their dogs, and have purposefully bred more healthy pups by cross breeding. Which generally speaking is complete b*ll*cks, they simply saw the price *jugs* were getting in the small ads and thought they would get themselves some of that.


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

Completely and utterly true S_L. All too often the breeders of "Jugs" are tossing two dogs together and selling the offspring with no thought whatsoever never mind thought for the dogs' health.

If we are comparing dogs with dogs; it is also true that _*statistically*_ the F1 "Jugs" from randomly chosen parents will have offspring that are healthier than the offspring of two randomly chosen pugs.

If we are comparing breeders with breeders then it's a different argument but it is possible to argue that pug x pug breeding _*may*_ be determined by considerations of appearance rather than health..... as for the "Jugs" see first paragraph.

The mix of JRT genes will at least lengthen the "Jug's" snout with all the attendant health benefits that a longer snout brings.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

ozrex said:


> Completely and utterly true S_L. All too often the breeders of "Jugs" are tossing two dogs together and selling the offspring with no thought whatsoever never mind thought for the dogs' health.
> 
> If we are comparing dogs with dogs; it is also true that _*statistically*_ the F1 "Jugs" from randomly chosen parents will have offspring that are healthier than the offspring of two randomly chosen pugs.
> 
> ...


Not necessarily. I've seen some Pug x's (with JRTs amongst others) who ended up with the awful brachycephalic face but all the energy of a full on terrier. Awful predicament for the poor dog to be in, they want to exercise and run about and be active but their body doesn't permit them to, often resulting in behavioural problems.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> Not necessarily. I've seen some Pug x's (with JRTs amongst others) who ended up with the awful brachycephalic face but all the energy of a full on terrier. Awful predicament for the poor dog to be in, they want to exercise and run about and be active but their body doesn't permit them to, often resulting in behavioural problems.


I agree. The 'jug' that I know has a far more 'pug like' face than a JR face.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

Ringo says can you please lighten up and not call him a jug. He's not for pouring liquids he's a little brown dog that's just experimenting with poo rolling.










He would also like to point out that his mum got him as a random crossbreed from a rescue because she wanted a small, robust dog, and if you would like one there are quite a few around looking for a new home - if you look closely and you could see what you were getting without taking a chance on a random pup, and that he's a huge terrierist so not for the faint hearted.

He would also like to point out that he's the coolest dog, like probably ever and couldn't be repeated however many pugs you crossed with terriers - so disregarding any ethical issues, even if someone has a crossbred dog you like, you might not get anything similar purely by opting for the same mix, and you might be better looking at similar dogs of the same type until you found one that is temperamentally similar.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I saw two in the vets yesterday and they were adorable - they looked like two mini Mastiffs only without wrinkles. Stocky little guys, lovely firm bodies and although a shorter nose than our Teebs (jrtxchi) definitely not at all snubbed. Smashing little dogs they were.


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## button50 (Apr 16, 2012)

I love Ringo!! Think he would like to be friends with Bubba


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## muse08 (Dec 21, 2008)

I expect that some pugs are closely line bred/inbred but that doesnt apply to all pugs..my two boys have a coi`s of 1.6% & 2.2%..My girls 3.6% and 4% and I have a litter due in February with a coi of 3.3%...
Mine are also fit and healthy..x-rayed hv clear, dna tested clear/low risk of pde and tested clear of patella luxation so to say that they are "an extremely unhealthy breed" across the board is simply not true.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

muse08 said:


> I expect that some pugs are closely line bred/inbred but that doesnt apply to all pugs..my two boys have a coi`s of 1.6% & 2.2%..My girls 3.6% and 4% and I have a litter due in February with a coi of 3.3%...
> Mine are also fit and healthy..x-rayed hv clear, dna tested clear/low risk of pde and tested clear of patella luxation so to say that they are "an extremely unhealthy breed" across the board is simply not true.


My Labs have have a higher CoI!


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

Malmum said:


> I saw two in the vets yesterday and they were adorable - they looked like two mini Mastiffs only without wrinkles. Stocky little guys, lovely firm bodies and although a shorter nose than our Teebs (jrtxchi) definitely not at all snubbed. Smashing little dogs they were.


I have only met one other one apart from Ringo - it's pretty sweet natured but has an underbite of a few centimetres and snorts like a pig. Not nice or healthy. That's why much as I adore Ringo, I don't feel they're a good idea!


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## v1kk1 (Jan 12, 2013)

Hi all.cant beleive i came across your posts.i recently(tuesday) bought a 3/4 pug 1/4 jack russel bitch 11 weeks old (mom a jug dad a full ped pug) i also have a 4 yr old staff x labrador bitch,i didnt realise it was goin to be a receipe for disaster.my staff dosnt seem to wana get along.puttin 2 dogs togetha in my eyes isnt for entertainment purposes.i jus wanted a lil pup that stayed small for the kids and hasnt gone to plan.im not willing to hold out to see if they get along,its not worth the risk to me so unfortunaly,as much as it devestates myself and kids this poor puppy has to go.i dont suppose anyone on here would be intrested?new to this forum stuff so if i can figure out how to post foto i will thank you all


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

button50 said:


> I love Ringo!! Think he would like to be friends with Bubba


I'm sure he would be! Is Bubba a pug x JRT too? Do you have more pictures? Xx


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

v1kk1 said:


> Hi all.cant beleive i came across your posts.i recently(tuesday) bought a 3/4 pug 1/4 jack russel bitch 11 weeks old (mom a jug dad a full ped pug) i also have a 4 yr old staff x labrador bitch,i didnt realise it was goin to be a receipe for disaster.my staff dosnt seem to wana get along.puttin 2 dogs togetha in my eyes isnt for entertainment purposes.i jus wanted a lil pup that stayed small for the kids and hasnt gone to plan.im not willing to hold out to see if they get along,its not worth the risk to me so unfortunaly,as much as it devestates myself and kids this poor puppy has to go.i dont suppose anyone on here would be intrested?new to this forum stuff so if i can figure out how to post foto i will thank you all


hi yer,introducing a new puppy into a home where there is already an older established dog does take time and patience. how are you addressing the situation at the moment? i'm no expert as i've never had the prtoblem ,hopefully somone more experienced will come along and help you out.


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## v1kk1 (Jan 12, 2013)

geordiegaviino said:


> Just wondering if anyone breeds or owns "Jugs" (Jack Russell cross Pugs) My friend has recently bought a 14 week old Jug bitch and she is one character. He always wanted a pug but cause his Staff is so energetic and playful he never thought it would be fair on a pug to constsntly have a staff wanting to play. He was looking for a jack russell when he came across Jugs. The girl he picked from the litter of seven was picked because she was the most energetic in the litter but with a very pug like face.
> 
> She seems to have the personality and energy of a JRT but the cuteness of Pug. Almost everyone who has seen her or has seen pictures have asked him if he knows if there are more pups available.
> 
> ...


ive got 3/4 pug 1/4 jrt 11wks old girl if u kno enione.im in west mids thanx


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## v1kk1 (Jan 12, 2013)

dexter said:


> hi yer,introducing a new puppy into a home where there is already an older established dog does take time and patience. how are you addressing the situation at the moment? i'm no expert as i've never had the prtoblem ,hopefully somone more experienced will come along and help you out.


Yeh i undastand time and patience,they got on fine for the 1st 2 days even sleepin in same bed but wen our eyes were off them for the 1st time shandy (pug) started yelping and reo(staffy) must have nipped her ear cus there was a tiny mineute blood spot on her ear and instant thinkin was to seperate dogs (different rooms) and try and sell puppy.i have researched and they all say that if blood is drawn action must be taken asap.in best intrest for shandy she has gta go.plus theres been a divide for 2 days so i really do.t wana risk em bak togetha


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## muse08 (Dec 21, 2008)

contact the puppy`s breeder and ask if they will take her back and or help you to find her a new suitable home


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

v1kk1 said:


> Yeh i undastand time and patience,they got on fine for the 1st 2 days even sleepin in same bed but wen our eyes were off them for the 1st time shandy (pug) started yelping and reo(staffy) must have nipped her ear cus there was a tiny mineute blood spot on her ear and instant thinkin was to seperate dogs (different rooms) and try and sell puppy.i have researched and they all say that if blood is drawn action must be taken asap.in best intrest for shandy she has gta go.plus theres been a divide for 2 days so i really do.t wana risk em bak togetha


You should go back to the breeder for advice or if you are def wanting to re-home pup then it should go back to breeder.....who should have knowledge of home vetting, etc. The last thing this poor baby needs is to be put in another home that turns out temporary. Hope you can sort something out.


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## v1kk1 (Jan 12, 2013)

My oh sed that but i dont think she was a breeder.there was no mom n dad n no other pups.i wear my heart on my sleeve so before i even got to the house i knew i was havin her regardless.plus she lived about 1.5 hr away.ive advertised her so fingas crossed.i feel awful doin it to her.movin her from home to home.shes realy took to me n the kids aswell.ive been sleepin on sofa with her like a newborn baby,im such a hipocrit(sorry with spelling.not my strong point) i cant bear enithin more than people have a dog,majority staffys,lose intrest then think its a good idea to have another and push the original dog out.i hate that.im only doin what im doin cuz i hd a moment of madness,to buy another dog,takin into account my staffy, i thought was dosile,wud be fine.but i have been thorough with people thats called to be sure she goes to a good home.sorry about the essay.its been very very hard and stressful and pourd out my heart.hope u lot dont mind


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

v1kk1 said:


> My oh sed that but i dont think she was a breeder.there was no mom n dad n no other pups.i wear my heart on my sleeve so before i even got to the house i knew i was havin her regardless.plus she lived about 1.5 hr away.ive advertised her so fingas crossed.i feel awful doin it to her.movin her from home to home.shes realy took to me n the kids aswell.ive been sleepin on sofa with her like a newborn baby,im such a hipocrit(sorry with spelling.not my strong point) i cant bear enithin more than people have a dog,majority staffys,lose intrest then think its a good idea to have another and push the original dog out.i hate that.im only doin what im doin cuz i hd a moment of madness,to buy another dog,takin into account my staffy, i thought was dosile,wud be fine.but i have been thorough with people thats called to be sure she goes to a good home.sorry about the essay.its been very very hard and stressful and pourd out my heart.hope u lot dont mind


It is clear that you are trying to do the right thing. However...as a Breeder myself...I believe the breeder should be your first port of call when you hit problems.

If she allowed her bitch to have pups....she is a breeder....she has a responsibility and you should give her the chance to help. If she is not interested then you have to work alone but dont for one minute think that you can know somebody from a phone call. After all....you had a moment of madness....this pup cant afford for any more humans to have a momentary loss of responsibility.

I am not getting on at you. I understand we all make mistakes but I am concerned that this pup could end up pushed from pillar to post. If she were one of my pups then I would be freaking out!

Dont hesitate to ask on here for help and advice with rehoming this pup. You need to get it right and choosing the right home/family for a pup isnt something to be taken lightly.

Can I ask how much you paid for the pup? Dont worry if youd rather not say. Just curious (aka nosey)


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## v1kk1 (Jan 12, 2013)

I completly agree with evrythin uve sed and beleive me i beat myself up that much this week about this poor dog but i in the short time shes been here ive gave her the best home poss.there realy is nothing else i can du!and its not the end of the world and she is young enuf to re-settle and be happy else where.

I paid 350 for her


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

v1kk1 said:


> Yeh i undastand time and patience,they got on fine for the 1st 2 days even sleepin in same bed but wen our eyes were off them for the 1st time shandy (pug) started yelping and reo(staffy) must have nipped her ear cus there was a tiny mineute blood spot on her ear and instant thinkin was to seperate dogs (different rooms) and try and sell puppy.i have researched and they all say that if blood is drawn action must be taken asap.in best intrest for shandy she has gta go.plus theres been a divide for 2 days so i really do.t wana risk em bak togetha


Can I just say my friends own Staff plays a bit rough with his new pup but she's tougher than she looks. All I can suggest is reward them when they play and get on well but stop all fun time when it gets out of control


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

v1kk1 said:


> I completly agree with evrythin uve sed and beleive me i beat myself up that much this week about this poor dog but i in the short time shes been here ive gave her the best home poss.there realy is nothing else i can du!and its not the end of the world and she is young enuf to re-settle and be happy else where.
> 
> I paid 350 for her


My friend paid 300 for his.. some online were selling for 550. I would personally give it a few days to see if you can consider other options like get s dog trainer or simply correct the behaviour as you see it.

Sorry to hear of you problem and I hope you deal with it soon x


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## v1kk1 (Jan 12, 2013)

Well id jus like to say,thank you very much toyou all.myself and kids have got very attatched to pup and decided to giv it another try with dogs.all well so far,have seperated them when i think its too much.still very nervy at times(jus dont want eitha to get hurt) and they havnt been left alone togetha yet.


Problem number 2: puppy seems to have a realy bad cough (evry 15mins) she has a coughing fit and a lil gag but nothing comes up.i thought it was my lovly fluffy leapord print slippers she decided to use as toys but i took them off her last nite and still had problem all day today.shes eating drinkin fine and still very livly.thanx any ideas?


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

v1kk1 said:


> Well id jus like to say,thank you very much toyou all.myself and kids have got very attatched to pup and decided to giv it another try with dogs.all well so far,have seperated them when i think its too much.still very nervy at times(jus dont want eitha to get hurt) and they havnt been left alone togetha yet.
> 
> *Problem number 2: puppy seems to have a realy bad cough (evry 15mins) she has a coughing fit and a lil gag but nothing comes up.i thought it was my lovly fluffy leapord print slippers she decided to use as toys but i took them off her last nite and still had problem all day today.shes eating drinkin fine and still very livly.thanx any ideas?*


I would take her to the vet today - but ring them first and describe her symptoms. She may have kennel cough so they might ask you to wait in the car park or to take the last appointment.


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

v1kk1 said:


> Well id jus like to say,thank you very much toyou all.myself and kids have got very attatched to pup and decided to giv it another try with dogs.all well so far,have seperated them when i think its too much.still very nervy at times(jus dont want eitha to get hurt) and they havnt been left alone togetha yet.
> 
> Problem number 2: puppy seems to have a realy bad cough (evry 15mins) she has a coughing fit and a lil gag but nothing comes up.i thought it was my lovly fluffy leapord print slippers she decided to use as toys but i took them off her last nite and still had problem all day today.shes eating drinkin fine and still very livly.thanx any ideas?


Call the vet and ask their oppinion. They might think its kennel cough so you might have to see vet out of hours or something else might be arranged x


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Could be Kennel Cough - other dogs can easily catch this so please PHONE AND TELL the vet about the coughing, so they can make sure no other dogs are around when you take your girl in


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

the other thing is it could be collapse trachea. shes a little young for symptoms, but its not at all impossible.
my toby needed an op to shorten this soft palate to allow the airway more room, but that wasn't until he was 7.
borth JRT and pugs are prone to this (along with most small/toy breeds) to my knowledge....


either way... a vet visit is needed.


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

Decided to give you all a update on the Jug (Pug x Jack Russell) 

Well she didnt just inherit the energy of a Jack Russell... she is a terror ! haha

She was outside for no less than five minutes and came in with a mouse clutched in her jaws... then a few days later she ran around the back of the house and my friend followed her to only discover she found another mouse and had this one too in between her teeth! 

In my oppinion unless your ready for a cute dog with a lust of small dead fluffy animals then a Jug may not be for you lol 

She is only 15 or 16 weeks old and is already going after mice. God knows what she will be like when she is fully grown and confident with her hunting skills lol 

He has also managed to train her to walk off lead after only having her for two weeks. He doesnt walk her far but i've seen him a few times walking her and his staffy to the local field with her running behind them


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

Below is a picture he took of her on the local field in the snow... Poor thing had to jump through the snow lol


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Yip; sounds like a terrierterror! I'm lucky that none of my girls are drawn to small fluffier (although poppets drive is certainly there somewhere) but if he's already after mice I'd be wary of where she's let off- last thing your friend would want would be an injured cat or the like...
She's a very pretty girl!


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

kodakkuki said:


> Yip; sounds like a terrierterror! I'm lucky that none of my girls are drawn to small fluffier (although poppets drive is certainly there somewhere) but if he's already after mice I'd be wary of where she's let off- last thing your friend would want would be an injured cat or the like...
> She's a very pretty girl!


Yeah he said he is thinking about putting her back on a lead. Not for that reason but out of fear when the snow melts she might run down one of the rabbit holes which apprently alot of jack russels are prone to do


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

I live in the country. I thought it was normal for all dogs to catch mice/vermin/birds from puppyhood on up.

All mine have, including the Cavalier here and including my family's Papillons when we have watched them.

Is it not?

Who can tell me they don't have dogs that wouldn't take the opportunity to catch mice? I've met hundreds of dogs and we have had (literally) hundreds on our property (we have gatherings sometimes) and I've yet to know of one that doesn't . . . unless they're the citified kind of dog that has never been allowed to get accustomed to fields, and that is down to socialization (I do know a tiny Papillon that will only walk on pavement and flooring, his feet being too pristine for dirty things like grass.

CC


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

comfortcreature said:


> I live in the country. I thought it was normal for all dogs to catch mice/vermin/birds from puppyhood on up.
> 
> All mine have, including the Cavalier here and including my family's Papillons when we have watched them.
> 
> ...


My neighbour had a gsd that was a outdoor dog... she use to catch rats for fun during the night when she had nothing to gaurd against lol


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

comfortcreature said:


> I live in the country. I thought it was normal for all dogs to catch mice/vermin/birds from puppyhood on up.
> 
> All mine have, including the Cavalier here and including my family's Papillons when we have watched them.
> 
> ...


I suppose if it isn't addressed when they're young then all dogs will- but none of mine do... They adore my pet rats as my mums gerbil, so they've been conditioned to like rodents from a young age...
But watching poppet 'hunt' her toys and she would definitely be capable of it... (And they still enjoy a good run in the fields)


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

comfortcreature said:


> I live in the country. I thought it was normal for all dogs to catch mice/vermin/birds from puppyhood on up.
> 
> All mine have, including the Cavalier here and including my family's Papillons when we have watched them.
> 
> ...


My neighbour had a gsd that was a outdoor dog... she use to catch rats for fun during the night when she had nothing to gaurd against lol


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

geordiegaviino said:


> My neighbour had a gsd that was a outdoor dog... she use to catch rats for fun during the night when she had nothing to gaurd against lol


can i borrow her


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## Sosha (Jan 11, 2013)

Walk with a Pug/ Beagle cross - he's a real cracker. 

Honestly quite like the idea of Pug Jrts too - in that I'd have one before ever having a pug, but I'd be picky about the terrier. It would need to be a proper JRT. not one of the "Tea cups". Ever.


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## geordiegaviino (Mar 26, 2010)

dexter said:


> can i borrow her


She passed away I think. I never actually ever asked what happened to her. I own her daughter who is actually a GSD x Collie... looks more collie like than GSD. Sadly my girl suffers from obesity and isn't much of a working dog. She's on a diet but vet thinks at 10 she is too old to make much of a difference to life expectancy.


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