# unwell goldfish



## drivetime7466 (Nov 16, 2013)

I have four goldfish and I have had them for about 2 years,I have a good size tank and I care for them very well .
Yesterday when I went into my living room in the morning I went to feed them and I noticed one was missing,I looked on the floor and there it was on the carpet,although the tank it a proper aquarium that I bought from pets at home and has a glass lid there is a very small piece of the glass at the top corner of the tank that has a triangle cut out for when you feed them,this is where it must have got out,I have no idea how long it had been out the water but it was very dry and I noticed that its mouth was still opening so I quickly put it back into the tank.anyway it is still alive but just sits at the bottom of the tank and only if I tap the tank does it move.
I really dont know what to do,the other fish dont bother it but it just stays there opening and shutting its mouth,I feel really sorry for the guy and I am an animal lover and hate the thought of having to put it down,my question is although I appreciate it may be hard to answer is what do I do? its looks ok but dosnt socialise or swim around ,please could anyone give me some advice...THANKYOU


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

This happened with two of my fish - but tragically they got out overnight and were dead when I found them in the morning. I have no idea what prompted them to even try to get out, as the water was about four inches below the top of the tank, and the tank was clean and (I thought) comfortable for them. You could try putting the poorly fish in a separate container with a pinch of salt, or half an aspirin. It's old fashioned, but I've found it works a lot of the time.


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## drivetime7466 (Nov 16, 2013)

Thanks for your reply,I notice a while ago that its perked up a bit ,I think it could be on the mend but I will just have to wait and see,I hope I dont lose it as it a lovely fish and although some would say dont be so silly I am very attached to it and feel really sorry for ,I have a so called friend who said I was being over sentimental but I asked if how he would feel if his dog fell very ill,he told me he would be gutted,I said its the same thing as my fish but he laughed,needless to say I am seriously considering his so called friendship,I never thought I would be so attached to a fish ,sentimental or not I feel he is part of my household..Thanks for your tips by the way ,I will see how he is tomorrow and may try it out,thanks again,take care..


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry to hear this 

Not had this problem myself but I know other people who have had a fish jump out, and they've just popped it back in and it's recovered, though understandably it will be very shocked/stressed for a while!

If you do use salt as a treatment, make sure it's uniodised (sea salt or aquarium salt) and not normal table salt. Never heard of using aspirin personally...

By the way, are they common or fancy goldfish? And what size is the aquarium? Just asking as goldfish (especially commons) need a lot more space than most people think...


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

NaomiM said:


> By the way, are they common or fancy goldfish? And what size is the aquarium? Just asking as goldfish (especially commons) need a lot more space than most people think...


I can't think of any glass-topped tanks from [email protected] that are big enough for goldfish, so definitely worth double checking the size. I'd also test the water (preferably with a liquid drop test kit, not the strips), as if there is something up with the water quality then it will make it more difficult for your fishy to recover, and could even be the reason it tried to jump out in the first place.

Got my fingers crossed for a full recovery x


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## drivetime7466 (Nov 16, 2013)

The tank was definately from pets at home and has a small piece of glass that is cut out to allow feeding without removing the whole glass top,I have never had this trouble before and the water is checked regularly and all the fish are happy,I have had these fish a while now and no problem,I believe this was just an unfortunate thing ,the fish always come up to this corner when I come to the tank to feed them,it could be this one just got a little carried away(or a least thats what I believe happened,I may be wrong) anyway on a more happy note he does seem to be looking a little better today so fingers crossed,thanks for your comments ,when I purchased the tank and the fish from pets at home I was told it was big enough to hold 3 standard goldfish, that was 2 years ago,.Once again thanks for you comments.


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## drivetime7466 (Nov 16, 2013)

NaomiM said:


> Sorry to hear this
> 
> Not had this problem myself but I know other people who have had a fish jump out, and they've just popped it back in and it's recovered, though understandably it will be very shocked/stressed for a while!
> 
> ...


Hello,thanks for your comment,they are ordinary goldfish and the tank was recommended by pets at home for the amount of fish I have in there,a little bit of good news is that he looks a bit better today,still very inactive but I think that time will tell,thanks to you and all for your concern and comments they are all very much appreciated


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Unfortunately, pets at home will cheerfully say that you can keep 2 goldfish in a 20L tank, which is absolute rubbish, so you can't trust that they have given you good advice 

'Ordinary' or common goldfish should grow to about 12 inches long and should ideally be kept in a pond as they need a huge amount of space. At two years old your fish should all be around 8-9 inches (not including tail). 

You've done really well to keep them alive for two years, but they should live for 20+ years and it's going to be extremely difficult for them to do that if their home isn't big enough. I reckon you'd need a tank of around 400-500L if you really wanted to keep them indoors, but again a pond would be better.

I'm sorry, I know it's not nice to hear.


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## drivetime7466 (Nov 16, 2013)

magpie said:


> Unfortunately, pets at home will cheerfully say that you can keep 2 goldfish in a 20L tank, which is absolute rubbish, so you can't trust that they have given you good advice
> 
> 'Ordinary' or common goldfish should grow to about 12 inches long and should ideally be kept in a pond as they need a huge amount of space. At two years old your fish should all be around 8-9 inches (not including tail).
> 
> ...


Strange as I have had fish for years on and off and never had a problem,I dont really consider this a big problem as it was just a case of a fish jumping,in nature fish do this all the time ,the fish are besides this perfectly happy and as for pets at home telling me a load of rubbish is a very serious thing to say,I have had goldfish in the past that have lived 10 plus years ,this fish as I said is now doing better I believe it was just an isolated incident ,I appreciate your comments but dont necessarily agree with them..Thanks anyway


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Glad your fish is improving, can't offer any advice but I don't like reading and not commenting 

I feel it was a bit sad that your friend was so unsympathetic, if you love and care for your pet whatever it is then you are bound to feel upset.


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## drivetime7466 (Nov 16, 2013)

delca1 said:


> Glad your fish is improving, can't offer any advice but I don't like reading and not commenting
> 
> I feel it was a bit sad that your friend was so unsympathetic, if you love and care for your pet whatever it is then you are bound to feel upset.


Thank you,I think he is now beginning to realise just what he said,after all we do get attached to our pets and fish are no different,by the way I just noticed the fish is now feeding again so hopefully he is on the mend,thanks for your concern its very much appreciated....


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

drivetime7466 said:


> Strange as I have had fish for years on and off and never had a problem,I dont really consider this a big problem as it was just a case of a fish jumping,in nature fish do this all the time ,the fish are besides this perfectly happy and as for pets at home telling me a load of rubbish is a very serious thing to say,I have had goldfish in the past that have lived 10 plus years ,this fish as I said is now doing better I believe it was just an isolated incident ,I appreciate your comments but dont necessarily agree with them..Thanks anyway


I'm glad your fish is improving, that's good news 

I just wanted to reiterate magpie's comment. I know it sounds a bit crazy as we're used to the image of goldfish in a bowl - when I was a kid we had a goldfish in a little bowl with no filter or anything and it lived for 10+ years - however this doesn't mean that this is a good way to keep them or that they're happy this way. Just over a year ago I bought 2 goldfish for a 14l tank - the shop told me this would be fine, and the packaging for the tank said it was suitable for up to 2 goldfish. However they both died of ammonia poisoning. That's how I found this forum, and I now realise that the advice here is much better than in a pet shop, as people here aren't in it for profit, and only care about the welfare of your pet.

From your posts I'm assuming that your tank is a fair bit bigger than the little one I used to have, and also that you clearly care about your fish and want the best for them - if that wasn't so then I wouldn't bother posting this as there wouldn't be any point. But as magpie has said, common goldfish are really pond fish - if they're given the space to grow, then they will grow to over 1 foot long and live for 20+ years. People (such as pet shop owners) will sometimes tell youi that they'll only grow to the size of the tank - that's partially true as keeping them in too small a space will stunt their growth, but their insides will keep on growing when the outside stops, which as you can imagine is painful and leads to a premature death. Fish don't show when they're in pain as this is a survival mechanism - in the wild, any fish showing signs of weakness is likely to be eaten by the other fish - so they may appear perfectly happy, but unfortunately we don't know what's going on inside!

Please don't take this as criticism. I know you're only following the advice you were given by the pet shop, and you've clearly been caring for them well for them to live this long. But if they are to live their full life spans of 20+ years, then please consider whether there's any possibility of rehoming them to a pond.


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## drivetime7466 (Nov 16, 2013)

Thank you to everyone who has posted and may I apologise to Magpie who my reply may have come over as a little hard,it was just that I was really concerned about this fish,I appreciate he knows what he is talking about so as I said I do sincerley apologise.

I came into my living room this morning to find that sadly it had died overnight,I never thought that I would get emotional over a fish but I was really upset,in a way I am glad that it isnt suffering any more but I will miss him .Once again thanks for all your posts they have really helped..

THANK YOU..


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

I'm sorry but magpie and Naomi are both right here. For a single common goldfish you need a tank of at least 300L with a filter rated for double that, and for each extra fish you need to add an extra 50L, so for 3 fish that's 400L (for round-bodied varieties you need larger, as these suffer more from internal disorders from stunted growth). It is unlikely that you bought a suitable aquarium from pets at home because most of the stores don't even sell tanks larger than 100L, and the staff will rarely go beyond recommending a 'starter tank' of around 20-30L (or worse, smaller) and quite happily tell you that they are big enough for 2-3 goldfish - purely because they want/need to get the sale, or are ignorant of the true needs of the species.

I have heard time and time again people saying that they have kept goldfish in little tanks or bowls for 10 years or so and never had a problem, but that does not mean that those fish lived an enriched life, nor a fulfilled one - a goldfish can live to 20 years and grow to 12 inches or more, and I doubt any goldfish in a bowl managed that. Most likely that poor fish was the single survivor of a pair, and suffered a long, lonely and miserable existence in that bowl. And besides that was years ago before the goldfish in the trade became so inbred and/or weakened by endemic viruses in the captive population. Today's fish are so much more delicate, and really only the best and biggest aquariums (or a pond) will do now. 

Thankfully most of the modern fish community nowadays are more enlightened, and there is quite a strong opinion now that fish bowls at least should be banned outright (a feeling endorsed by the RSPCA). 

Now I don't think you said what size your tank actually is, nor if you have a decent filter, use a suitable tap water conditioner, test your water chemistry and perform frequent partial water changes, so please correct me if you do, but if you are not doing any of those and don't have a suitable size tank for your fish I would heartily recommend that you consider either investing in a larger aquarium (there's actually a really nice deal on SeaPets right now for Roma aquariums - you get as free cabinet worth over £100 and free delivery), dig a pond (if you have standard not round bodied fish) or re-home the goldfish with someone who does have what they need.

You said you care about your fish - show them that you do by giving them what they need, not what you have been misinformed or misguidedly thought for the last 10+ years, something which is seriously out of date. 

I'm sorry to be so blunt but if you want to do right by your fish you really need to listen to what you are being told - you asked us for advice, please heed it, and we will be there to guide you if you need it.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

drivetime7466 said:


> Thank you to everyone who has posted and may I apologise to Magpie who my reply may have come over as a little hard,it was just that I was really concerned about this fish,I appreciate he knows what he is talking about so as I said I do sincerley apologise.


No need to apologise, I understand that what I said probably sounded crazy to you, as why wouldn't you believe the pet shop gave you good advice? That's what they *should* be doing! (Though I'm a 'she', not a 'he'!  )

I imagine the vast majority of goldfish keepers started out the same way because of poor advice from the shops that sold the fish to them. My first goldies started out in a 20L tank... upgraded to a 90L... then upgraded to a 200L... finally upgraded to a 500L!

I'm very sorry about your fish, it is very upsetting when you lose one


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry about your fish.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

so sorry you lost the little guy, it was only since i got my goldfish and fell in love with them that i realised how much i want them to be free i love them so much, i have 3 in a 25 gallon tank and still realise thats not big enough , i do the best i can , i am currently saving for a bigger one , i did have them in an indoor garden pond for a while that held about 30gallon but i was worried about the rough surface damaging them , they did love it in there but i moved them back.

i seen a big bath the other day that someone no longer needed i was thinking of putting them in that in my front room until i can get a pond together in the summer.

has anyone got a rough idea of how much water a standard sized bath holds ?


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

I think a bathtub holds around 200L?


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

aww thanks , i was hoping it was gonna be more but thanks for reply


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

moggiemum said:


> aww thanks , i was hoping it was gonna be more but thanks for reply


From the quick look I did on google it seems they are quite variable - to get a rough idea of how much it holds you have to find its volume (length x width x height/depth in cm) and then divide this by 1000 to get litres (1 litre is 1000 cubic centimetres).

Just pretend its an aquarium and plug the values into one of the online calculators if its easier


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## Dan1234 (Dec 3, 2012)

You should keep a eye out on gumtree/ebay/preloved etc for Laguna tubs. There's a couple nice big ones that can be made into really attractive indoor ponds with a bit cheap bamboo/reed type stuff fitted around the outside. Seen it done a lot for Turtles.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

thankyou, i did have a preformed pond in my front room for a while , its so prett/natural seeing them from the natural overhead view and they really seemed to like it , i will check out the languna tubs also as the preformed pond was of the old style andhad a very rough surface i am told this is for plants to adhere to and is very good for surface bacteria which seems reasonable but i still worried they would damage themselves,

with the bath idea i was going to build a ubit around it with storageunderneathand a little seat at either side , oh and a lid also from perpex and grid for feeding ect.
i look forward to checking out the tubs, i do have an alert on gumtree for pond items, i got my last one on there local for £5 and £5 transportation


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## Dan1234 (Dec 3, 2012)

Not sure if the link will work http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y358/UpAroundTheBend/Lagunatub-3.jpg
But if it does this is the sort of thing I ment. I believe the largest Laguna Tub holds like 5-600 litres which is pretty good. These also have nice smooth sides so no worries about fish damaging themselves.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

wow what a tub!


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## Dan1234 (Dec 3, 2012)

Yea they are awesome, The thing I like about them is there isn't loads of volume wasted by having a curvy design or raised platforms for plants. They can also stand alone without any support unlike most preformed ponds which require to be dug in.
I underestimated the size actually. The medium is 470 litres at around 4ftx3ftx1.5ft (roughly) and the large is actually 1300 litres at a rather impressive 6ftx4ftx2ft. I looked into them quite a bit before I decided on putting my Turtles in a outside pond. They are also pretty reasonably priced considering, I believe the medium is around 100 squids and the large just over 200.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

brilliant, i love your Tommy too, not a bad price , i may have to go for the medium , will do some more research , thanls for the pics and info


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