# My cat escaped - shes pregnant!



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

No - not mine, mine are all neutered.

Just recently I have read of two unspayed cats that have escaped and got pregnant.

The result:

7 kittens born.
4 kittens dead.
1 mummy cat ill.
2 kittens needing to be hand reared.

I really hope mummy cat gets better, and hand reared kittens thrive.

This is the 'miracle' of unplanned, totally preventable litters.

Hopefully this will make some people realise the reality of what can happen.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

You are saying what I have been thinking.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2012)

I went into meltdown then. AND confusion, but yes, I just wish every naive/unthinking/cloud cuckoo land self indulgent fool could get a vaccination of BLUUDY REALITY.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

You forgot to mention that they always escape when they were 'booked in to be spayed next week'


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

I am going to leave this forum if threads like these don't stop!

This attitude is disgusting!


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

househens said:


> I went into meltdown then. AND confusion, but yes, I just wish every naive/unthinking/cloud cuckoo land self indulgent fool could get a vaccination of BLUUDY REALITY.


Oh yeah and keeping a cat pregnant just to keep some precious blood line going is perfectly normal.

Go and check your local rehousing centre or dump for pure breeds that couldn't be sold or weren't the right color etc then tell me who needs a reality check.

We all need to Spey our cats ALL OF US NOT JUST MOGGY MUMS!!!!!


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Tamiyamumma said:


> Oh yeah and keeping a cat pregnant just to keep some precious blood line going is perfectly normal.
> 
> Go and check your local rehousing centre or dump for pure breeds that couldn't be sold or weren't the right color etc then tell me who needs a reality check.
> 
> We all need to Spey our cats ALL OF US NOT JUST MOGGY MUMS!!!!!


woo there girl..... why the sudden attitude on the forum, nobody has mentioned you but you have jumped in straight away on the defence, i dont understand. havent we just helped you with kittens being born.

we dont all need to spay our cats, breeders are trying their very best to perfect the breed line.
i dont see my breed of cat in rescue and if there was they certainly are not mine which ive bred as i always have them back and keep as pets.
please dont paint all breeders with the same brush, many of us are good hearted and adore the cats and kittens we have raised.
and before i get the money thing going on here, if i was to list everything my queen has during pregnancy and kittening i can tell you that i do not make anything, if at worse i will be spending almost £1,000 to keep a kitten alive with an injured eye and kept as my own pet, i dont need to do this, if i was a cold hearted bitch i would just pay £68 and have the bugger put down.
you are assuming we are all the same and we are not.:nono:


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

my son worked in a local rescue (i use the word rescue very loosely) in the several years he worked there we only saw a handful of pedigree cats in there. there were loads of pedigree dogs but not cats. i saw first hand the sheer neglect and abuse towards these poor creatures - but i also saw the traumatic times with the poor cats that were having or had kittens. in my area the cats protection league will issue vouchers for the cats to be speyed/neutured at no cost to the owner. there is absolutely no excuse for letting these poor girls suffer. tabitha will be going in approx 2 weeks to be speyed when her kittens are 6 weeks old. i personally did not let her escape to get pregnant - as most of you know she was dumped in that condition and i took her in. all my cats are speyed/neutered and i will continue to do this if i'm allowed more. i think what mcwillow is saying simply highlights the dangers and suffering in acat that is not 'prepared' for pregnancy. responsible breeders have all the vet checks, health risks etc sorted before the cat becomes pregnant. this is not normally true of 'moggys' and that is where the dangers come in


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

If EVERYBODY spayed there would be a mass cat extinction!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If EVERYBODY spayed there would be a mass cat extinction!


Well that IS the aim of at least one group supposedly campaigning for the 'ethical' treatment of animals. It's not something they use in their publicity but they have admitted their ultimate goal is to stop ANY animal being kept/owned. This extends to pets as well as farm animals. The only OK animals are wild animals.


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

I was on the offensive because I felt there was no need to start another thread about how awful it is. 

There will always be a conflict when it comes to breeding cats of any type. But why does a breed have to be perfect that has always puzzled me? As long as they are healthy surely that is all that matters.

It was so lovely on sunday on here everyone was helping us through what was a very tough day and I was very shocked to see this what I felt was a very cold hearted thread xx


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> It was so lovely on sunday on here everyone was helping us through what was a very tough day and I was very shocked to see this what I felt was a very cold hearted thread xx


Far from cold hearted. It's heartfelt.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2012)

Tamiyamumma said:


> *I was on the offensive because I felt there was no need to start another thread about how awful it is. *
> 
> There will always be a conflict when it comes to breeding cats of any type. But why does a breed have to be perfect that has always puzzled me? As long as they are healthy surely that is all that matters.
> 
> It was so lovely on sunday on here everyone was helping us through what was a very tough day and I was very shocked to see this what I felt was a very cold hearted thread xx


There is obvious need to start a thread like this because it still happens over, and over and over.......
When you have been on forums for long enough you will get the same old story and sorry but I'm a huge cynic when it comes to "accidental" pregnancies.

Yes SOME pregnancies are really accidents, but the vast majority could be avoided.

This is far from a cold hearted thread :nono:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Lol, I love that people who genuinely care about animal welfare are now being labelled 'cold hearted'. Heard it all now



B3rnie said:


> There is obvious need to start a thread like this *because it still happens over, and over and over*.......
> When you have been on forums for long enough you will get the same old story and sorry but I'm a huge cynic when it comes to "accidental" pregnancies.
> 
> Yes SOME pregnancies are really accidents, but the vast majority could be avoided.
> ...


Don't it just- cats, dog, rodents, all species- funny how a lot of us easily manage to avoid these 'unwanted' pregnancies & then there are others who seem to have an 'accident' & others still have 'accident' after 'accident', so it begs the question- how much do people _really_want to avoid unnecessary litters? Sorry, thats the cold hearted cynic in me emerging


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> Don't it just- cats, dog, rodents, all species- funny how a lot of us easily manage to avoid these 'unwanted' pregnancies & then there are others who seem to have an 'accident' & others still have 'accident' after 'accident', so it begs the question- how much do people _really_want to avoid unnecessary litters? Sorry, thats the cold hearted cynic in me emerging


I know, I've had many entire animals here, but wow not one single accident


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm always struck (and somewhat mystified) by the vast divide in the number of how many non-pedigrees manage to escape and become pregnant, versus the number of pedigree cats who manage to... etc.


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

househens said:


> I went into meltdown then. AND confusion, but yes, I just wish every naive/unthinking/cloud cuckoo land self indulgent fool could get a vaccination of BLUUDY REALITY.


So it's fine to label me and others in my position as this then?


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> There is obvious need to start a thread like this because it still happens over, and over and over.......
> When you have been on forums for long enough you will get the same old story and sorry but I'm a huge cynic when it comes to "accidental" pregnancies.
> 
> Yes SOME pregnancies are really accidents, but the vast majority could be avoided.
> ...


People want kittens it's as simple as that but instead of being nasty how about working together to encourage more vets to reduce their prices for speying and why is it only people on benefits that get coupons for it? I am on a low income but not low enough apparently to get help do what's right x


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

Neutering is not expensive. If you think it is unaffordable for some Then I would suggest those people should not be taking in a kitten full stop. To blame a lack of neutering on the cost is ludicrous.


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

No it's the flipping truth. My vet wants £70 to Spey my girl and when you husband unexpectedly loose his job other things have to take priority


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2012)

Tamiyamumma said:


> People want kittens it's as simple as that but instead of being nasty how about working together to encourage more vets to reduce their prices for speying and why is it only people on benefits that get coupons for it? I am on a low income but not low enough apparently to get help do what's right x


No one is being nasty 

Why should vets reduce spaying prices? If someone can't afford a cat (and that includes getting said cat neutered) then they shouldn't have a cat at that time simples 

As I have said SOME accidents happen, but the VAST majority are avoidable and are due to "People wanting kittens"

All the OP has done is highlight what can and does go wrong, I see no problem with that at all, and I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive about it tbh.


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

If you have pets you need to have the funds to pay for emergencies which may unexpectedly arise. Neutering is NOT an emergency and any responsible owner knows they will need to have it done and they know this BEFORE they acquire a cat.

It is no excuse.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Tamiyamumma said:


> People want kittens it's as simple as that but instead of being nasty how about working together to encourage more vets to reduce their prices for speying and why is it only people on benefits that get coupons for it? I am on a low income but not low enough apparently to get help do what's right x


Neutering is cheap compared to rearing a litter of kittens, and it cost me £40 to get my male kitten castrated back in July.

Rescues limit their coupons to people on benefits because a line has to be drawn somewhere and it's an easy line to draw that doesn't involve them in anything beyond seeing some confirmation of the applicant being on benefit. Otherwise, how would you run a scheme that didn't eat up lots of money to administer when the point is to use the money to help animals?

For people who want kittens there are plenty of them in the various rescues. Being refused by one rescue doesn't mean they all will and most places have some local one-off rescues as well as CP, RSPCA / SSPCA and so on.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

The RSPCA and CPL will often do neutering months where they offer neutering for £10. Or if you contact the RSPCA they will often help you with costs, especially if you tell them about the kittens you have lost etc. The cost of raising a full litter of kittens costs more than a spay. Imagine if she had had five live babies - food costs alone would cost more than £70. She will come into call again with 6 weeks - can you afford to go though this again in 14 weeks time?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I understand, with first hand experience, how life can be when a job is lost or someone is unable to work through ill health. But I don't think many people realise what a false economy it is. Raising an average sized litter of kittens, without ANY veterinary costs involved for the mum or the kittens, will cost way, way more than £70


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Lel said:


> If you have pets you need to have the funds to pay for emergencies which may unexpectedly arise. Neutering is NOT an emergency and any responsible owner knows they will need to have it done and they know this BEFORE they acquire a cat.
> 
> It is no excuse.


Absolutely. And that includes paying for flea & worm control, boosters, an annual health check and dental work which most cats need sooner or later.

This is why in my view people who could not afford a cheap pedigree cat need to think very carefully about if they can afford any cat. I am *NOT *saying people should only have pedigree cats (far from it), but that if people can't afford £300 with planning they certainly can't afford it if their cat gets ill or has an accident.

BTW despite having a cheap vet I think it cost something in the region of £550 for everything Rufus last year, spread over several months. That includes his cremation. He didn't have anything exotic, he got an overactive thyroid and then just as he was getting over that he had symptoms that turned out to be liver cancer for which he received palliative treatment for 4-5 months.


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## Sansa (Oct 19, 2011)

Tamiyamumma said:


> So it's fine to label me and others in my position as this then?


You have labeled yourself with your actions pretty decisively, and no amount of verbiage will change that.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

most of my wages goes on my cats. i paid £650 for a queen only now to have her neutered at the cost of £98 due to her not being such a good mum. this is a waste of money but i wouldnt have it any other way.
my kitten with the injured eye has just set me back £208 for an eye specialist again not expected but had to be done.
i still have the kittens to vaccinated, feed and microchip but you do find a way of paying the vet if you have to.
£70 for neutering a female is good, my vet charges more than this.
if you sit down and work out the cost of raising a litter you will come to the conclusion that neutering is just the one off payment and is far cheaper than kittening.
what about PSDA they will neuter for you as well.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Tamiyamumma said:


> I am going to leave this forum if threads like these don't stop!
> 
> This attitude is disgusting!


Sorry, but why have you jumped onto the defensive after all the support you had yesterday? You must be feeling guilty or you would not have been so quick to think everyone was getting at you.

I see your cat had four kittens, three of which were stillborn. That must have been very painful for the cat and very upsetting for you, but nobody has said a single word about it.



simplysardonic said:


> Lol, I love that people who genuinely care about animal welfare are now being labelled 'cold hearted'. Heard it all now
> 
> Don't it just- cats, dog, rodents, all species- funny how a lot of us easily manage to avoid these 'unwanted' pregnancies & then there are others who seem to have an 'accident' & others still have 'accident' after 'accident', so it begs the question- how much do people _really_want to avoid unnecessary litters? Sorry, thats the cold hearted cynic in me emerging


My in-laws had a cat which turned up on their doorstep one day and was called "Cat". They never bothered to give her a name, and they never bothered to do anything to prevent the 110 kittens which that poor cat produced. It was far too much trouble to keep her in long enough for her to recover from each birth. Why? Not sure really. I think it was a question of didn't want a dirt tray about the place and couldn't be bothered.

Most of those kittens lost their lives at the hands of my FIL, who drowned them, telling himself it was the kindest thing. They found homes for some, but only among the relatives. Couldn't possibly advertise them and have strangers turning up, they were far too important for that.

They felt no duty toward this cat whatsoever. They believed they had done a wonderful thing by taking her in and feeding her, they didn't think they had any responsibility beyond that.

This was a very long time ago, but unfortunately there are still people who think like that.


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

Tamiyamumma said:


> No it's the flipping truth. My vet wants £70 to Spey my girl and when you husband unexpectedly loose his job other things have to take priority


I lost my job, I made sure that the money was put a side to spay my girls and neuter my boy.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Times are hard and I do feel for anyone who has been made redundant. The law doesn't change just because of recession though and I wonder how those who can't find the money to neuter would manage if their pet needed veterinary treatment for any other reason. Failing to obtain necessary veterinary care is a criminal offence.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Tamiyamumma said:


> No it's the flipping truth. My vet wants £70 to Spey my girl and when you husband unexpectedly loose his job other things have to take priority


My vet charges 79 for female neutering and my husband was unexpectedly made redundant last week. Nancy will be going in for her neutering in two weeks as normal - because I was aware when I got her how much it was going to cost and I planned accordingly.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

spid said:


> If EVERYBODY spayed there would be a mass cat extinction!


I doubt that would ever happen. But I would love it if feral cats were extinct and there was a lap for every cat.


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## MouseyMoo (Sep 5, 2012)

Wow that was an interesting read i have to say.

I'm not a breeder but I wanted my girl to have kittens so that SHE could experience it and it was a bonding that i wanted us to share. I was aware of the problems and cost that could occur but i like to think i went into it with a responsible head (even tho i did freak out a little bit) 
However this didn't stop me in doing what *I *believed was right in letting her have a litter. I guess it is something that i have grown up with as my Mother did the same. *Everyone has different views and upbringings* and it was a great experience for both of us.

My girl will now be neutered as i believe she has done her bit, been a mum and loved it.

She is being a brilliant mum (even though its only been 18 hours or so)


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## Sansa (Oct 19, 2011)

"Because my mother did it" is a rather flimsy reason to perpetuate a problem.

Did you have your cat tested for FIV after she mated? Will you test the kittens? If you think female cats need to "experience being a mum", will you insist on this for your cat's daughters - have them each have a litter? And their daughters? Et cetera, ad infinitum? Where does it stop? What happens to all these cats?

It is nothing but an old wives' tale that a cat (or a female dog) needs to have one litter. I'd have thought everyone who isn't Rip Van Winkle knows that.

If you really wanted to have experience of kittens, I daresay you could have volunteered to care for an abandoned pregnant momma cat (as several members of this forum have done lately, and deserve kudos for it). There was absolutely no need to expose your cat to pregnancy and sickness.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Mouseymoo I don't doubt that you are a loving owner and that your cats kittens will be raised well, but deciding to let your cat have kittens so that she can experience the joy of motherhood is just plain old anthropomorphism.

Cats are not people, they do not suffer emotionally from being neutered and when your cats kittens are being rehomed she won't try and trace them when they turn 18. 

Treating animals with respect does not mean we have to forget that they are animals.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Aurelie said:


> ...
> Treating animals with respect does not mean we have to forget that they are animals.


In my view treating animals with respect can't be done *unless *you remember they are an animal.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I'm not a breeder but I wanted my girl to have kittens so that SHE could experience it


Did you have a few hundred set aside in case she experienced the joys of uterine inertia or haemorrhage?

I do breed. I do enjoy it despite all the costs and the odd heartbreak. I'm so amazingly grateful that I get to do something so wonderful. The decisions I make are mine and I'm acutely aware that they are for my benefit. Never have I been or would I be so bl**dy arrogant as to suggest I do it because my cats need the experience.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

I completely agree! My two cats are boys and when I got them they were indoor cats only as I lived in a high rise block of flats so had no access to the outside world for the first year and a half of their lives. But I still had them neutered and microchipped and innoculated every year! And insured. People used to laugh at me saying that i was being silly and overprotective and wasting money but I just felt better by it all being done!


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

I have 2 cats (Button & Romeo),
Button turned up on my OH's doorstep when she was very young he took her to the vets within a few days and had her checked out and she was spayed before she ever left the house.

Romeo we found a just over a month ago.. we took him to the vets had him checked out vaccinated and treated for various things. He's booked in for neutering in a few weeks time. Which is going to cost £42.

I know all about living on a low income.. myself and the OH have spent months before eating what we call "Freezer food" but the cats always have their food, water and warm beds. It's our fault we got in the mess we were in why should they have to suffer?
We actually have a credit card for the cats.. If we can't afford it.. the credit card is used and we suffer the consequences later!

Thats what being a slave is all about 

Button is allowed to roam outside , Romeo is not. We've managed for over a month to keep Romeo indoors while Button is still allowed her freedom. The cat flap is permanently locked.. Romeo is locked in his safe room or another room in the house while Button is let in or out. It's a massive pain in the bum but it HAS to be done to prevent him from getting outside.
I don't want to add to ever growing population of cat rescues.

I know accidents do happen but I don't think they happen as much as people say they do!

When I was a kid if myself or my sister broke something while we were playing or we weren't paying attention we'd shout "Sorry dad it was an accident" He'd reply *"IT WASN'T AN ACCIDENT IT WAS CARELESSNESS!!!!!"*


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## MouseyMoo (Sep 5, 2012)

havoc said:


> I do breed. I do enjoy it despite all the costs and the odd heartbreak. I'm so amazingly grateful that I get to do something so wonderful. The decisions I make are mine and I'm acutely aware that they are for my benefit. Never have I been or would I be so bl**dy arrogant as to suggest I do it because my cats need the experience.


As i said WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN VIEWS. Please do not call me arrogant, there was no need. If we all agreed on one thing where on earth would we get in life.

And what happens to the daughters is up to the new owners and what they think is right.

I didn't follow an old wives' tale, i followed my heart. Shoot me for it.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

MouseyMoo said:


> As i said WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN VIEWS. Please do not call me arrogant, there was no need. If we all agreed on one thing where on earth would we get in life.
> 
> *And what happens to the daughters is up to the new owners and what they think is right. *I didn't follow an old wives' tale, i followed my heart. Shoot me for it.


So you wash your hands of all responsibility, eh? What if the new owners turn out to be duds? Or allow these kittens to breed unchecked? Shocking attitude, I must say.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

As always, this is an emotive subject.
I will repeat that I believe the change in attitude has to come from the vets....they have to start pushing earlier neutering at around 4 months, selling discounted packages so that the owner in the first flush of enthusiasm buys vaccinations and is booked in for the spay/neuter as soon as it is possible.
Television programmes have to play their part too.....like Paul O'Grady's current series...they should be pushing the neutering message at every turn and showing the misery of emaciated mothers and their offspring stuck in a rescue cage for months as no homes can be found for average moggies.
CP have pretty generous terms for those they will provide free neutering vouchers for....if OP or partner have lost their job then they should qualify on basis of low household income. The days of quibbling over whether someone is really entitled to these offers are over, the important thing is to get the neutering done and prevent pregnancies.


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## Sansa (Oct 19, 2011)

MouseyMoo said:


> I didn't follow an old wives' tale, i followed my heart. Shoot me for it.


Don't be melodramatic.

You didn't follow your heart. You followed a false assumption (= my cat feels about babies just like I do!) down the road of illogical reasoning (= therefore she needs to have babies!) to the inevitable bad conclusion (= more cats in an already over-populated world which you wash your hands of).


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Sansa said:


> "Because my mother did it" is a rather flimsy reason to perpetuate a problem.
> 
> Did you have your cat tested for FIV after she mated? Will you test the kittens? If you think female cats need to "experience being a mum", will you insist on this for your cat's daughters - have them each have a litter? And their daughters? Et cetera, ad infinitum? Where does it stop? What happens to all these cats?
> 
> ...


sorry guys for hijacking this thread, i cant make what i want to stand out but.....you have just come up with a cool name for my kitten with the injured eye RIP VAN WINKLE yeah xxxxx


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

Tamiyamumma said:


> Oh yeah and keeping a cat pregnant just to keep some precious blood line going is perfectly normal.
> 
> Go and check your local rehousing centre or dump for pure breeds that couldn't be sold or weren't the right color etc then tell me who needs a reality check.
> 
> We all need to Spey our cats ALL OF US NOT JUST MOGGY MUMS!!!!!


I bet your cat is so happy that you let her have a litter, 3 dead kittens who were too big for her, I bet that was a lovely experience for her to go through  And no its moggie people filling up rescues, not good breeders who spend time and money keeping breeds going, I work with rescues, I also pay out of my pocket to neuter kittens before they leave me, we couldnt find homes for all the black cats I ended up keeping one!



Tamiyamumma said:


> People want kittens it's as simple as that but instead of being nasty how about working together to encourage more vets to reduce their prices for speying and why is it only people on benefits that get coupons for it? I am on a low income but not low enough apparently to get help do what's right x


Why didnt you look around? Lots of vets only charge £20-50 and Im in london!! Lots of discounts and different places to look at, I am shocked that you cant afford 70 quid but could have easily needed a grand c-section, so how would you have found 1000 if you cant find 70? It costs alot of money to raise a litter, how will you afford the 3 months, then neutering mum & kittens and vacing them for £50 each?? 



MouseyMoo said:


> Wow that was an interesting read i have to say.
> 
> I'm not a breeder but I wanted my girl to have kittens so that SHE could experience it and it was a bonding that i wanted us to share. I was aware of the problems and cost that could occur but i like to think i went into it with a responsible head (even tho i did freak out a little bit)
> However this didn't stop me in doing what *I *believed was right in letting her have a litter. I guess it is something that i have grown up with as my Mother did the same. *Everyone has different views and upbringings* and it was a great experience for both of us.
> ...


so SHE could have kittens?  Oh my god, you are a selfish person, would you have been so happy if she needed a c-section or if she decided not to look after them? How many girls did she have do ALL of them NEED a litter now to fullfill their lives?  What about THEIR kittens? Why stop with the mum, going by your logic ALL females need a litter??  THATS why rescues fill up!!!! 

A mum doesnt enjoy she goes by instinct she is doing what she is programed to do, she is a cat not a human!! How is she 'loving' it after 18hours? Well shes done her bit then  
And animals certainly do NOT need to have babies to have good lives, that is such a stupid selfish view. 

How were you responsible? What health tests did you do? How did you find a stud? what health tests did he have? Are you keeping the kittens until 12-14weeks of age? neutering them? vac'ing them before they leave you?



Sansa said:


> "Because my mother did it" is a rather flimsy reason to perpetuate a problem.
> 
> Did you have your cat tested for FIV after she mated? Will you test the kittens? If you think female cats need to "experience being a mum", will you insist on this for your cat's daughters - have them each have a litter? And their daughters? Et cetera, ad infinitum? Where does it stop? What happens to all these cats?
> 
> ...


Excellent post  Want kittens? Ask a rescue to foster some and do something worthwhile!!


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

i have got 5 cats 3 girls and 2 boys  one of them that i got was ferrell! it was getting to the point where i couldnt cope with her as she had attacked and seriously hurt my dog (a rottie) the vet suggested letting her have a litter as it can calm them down. so i kept her inside for a few months to save up money and then let her have a litter, i dont know if what the vet said is a view everyone will have but she was an amazing mum i spent alot of money on her before throughout and after the pregnancy i was lucky and had no problems as soon as i could i got her spayed and u would never of known she was ferrell. she may of turned into a lap cat anyway but for her having a litter worked. but i could afford too and i dont think you should have any animal if you cant afford everything for them. i spend a small fortune every month on stuff for my cats and dogs i wouldnt have it any other way


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I didn't follow an old wives' tale, i followed my heart.


You did what you wanted for your own selfish reasons and then had the arrogance to state is was for the cat to experience something. If *you* wanted to have a litter then *you* take responsibility for the decision. Passing the buck onto the cat is beyond belief. When and how for goodness sake did she convey to you she wanted the experience?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> the vet suggested letting her have a litter as it can calm them down


But never suggested spaying her so she wasn't quite so hormonal?


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

havoc said:


> But never suggested spaying her so she wasn't quite so hormonal?


no like i said thats what he suggested, so thats what i did.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> no like i said thats what he suggested, so thats what i did.


And then had her spayed. It was the spaying which did the trick not the pregnancy. Cats can get very bad tempered as they're coming into call, a sort of feline PMT.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

havoc said:


> And then had her spayed. It was the spaying which did the trick not the pregnancy. Cats can get very bad tempered as they're coming into call, a sort of feline PMT.


no i didnt get her spayed straight away, i kept her in for months obviously whilst she raised the kittens, she only had 2 so i kept them both and kept all 3 in until the babies where 6 months then got all 3 of them spayed at the same time so no it wasnt the spaying that done it

dont quote me on the exact dates as i cant remember this was 6 years ago now!


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## kelzcats (Aug 1, 2011)

£70 is nothing for nutering when you bere in mind how much it cost for vaccinations,feeding and everything else that goes into the care and well being of a pregnant queen and looking after the kittens.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> dont quote me on the exact dates as i cant remember this was 6 years ago now!


I am honestly fascinated in this. How did your vet suggest you went about getting your girl pregnant?


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

havoc said:


> I am honestly fascinated in this. How did your vet suggest you went about getting your girl pregnant?


he didnt suggest how i did it, just put the idea out their he suggested it and i did it. i looked after my cat and kept all the kittens so whats your problem exactly? i didnt dump the kittens in a river or not have my cat checked throughought the pregnancy i made no moeny at all i was at a minus a massive minus! i still have all the cats to this day and still pay for them like i always have! i have never gone with a begging bowl to the PDSA or any other organisation i pay for all of my cats and before you go on about cat sheleters filling up i have 2 cats from a shelter and the feral one i rescued! so have never linned any breeders pockets ! so as far as im concerned your fascination should be satisfied 

sorry should of been clearer when i say he didnt suggest how i did it, when he first mentioned it he said about it, and we went away and thought about it!


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> he didnt suggest how i did it, just put the idea out their he suggested it and i did it. i looked after my cat and kept all the kittens so whats your problem exactly? i didnt dump the kittens in a river or not have my cat checked throughought the pregnancy i made no moeny at all i was at a minus a massive minus! i still have all the cats to this day and still pay for them like i always have! i have never gone with a begging bowl to the PDSA or any other organisation i pay for all of my cats and before you go on about cat sheleters filling up i have 2 cats from a shelter and the feral one i rescued! so have never linned any breeders pockets ! so as far as im concerned your fascination should be satisfied


Well I hope you vet would have been willing to take care of some kittens if she'd had a litter of 7 or something then. Because even by selling them or giving them to friends and family, rescue cats and kittens would have possibly been deprived of a home.
Also it's very easy to say yes to a kitten that's right in front of you and either free or £20. But I would be extremely wary of family and friends who say they'd take a kitten. Because if they wanted a cat then surely they'd already be looking and have £80 - £100 put by to rehome one.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

im not satisfied, firstly lining breeders pockets..... good breeders actually make a loss, they do not breed for money but have a job, breeding is actually a very expensive hobby.

i would like to know the ways moggies get pregnant, of course i know the basics, but do you advertise for a moggy stud or do you let the girl out and she comes home pregnant.

its easier with pedigree cats as breeders let you use their stud boys but on the basis or moggies i would just like to know how that works, its interesting and i enjoy gaining knowledge.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

NexivRed said:


> Well I hope you vet would have been willing to take care of some kittens if she'd had a litter of 7 or something then. Because even by selling them or giving them to friends and family, rescue cats and kittens would have possibly been deprived of a home.
> Also it's very easy to say yes to a kitten that's right in front of you and either free or £20. But I would be extremely wary of family and friends who say they'd take a kitten. Because if they wanted a cat then surely they'd already be looking and have £80 - £100 put by to rehome one.


i have no idea what your going on about i kept all the kittens their was no question about me selling them or giving to family so your just rambling on and clearly not read my posts


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> im not satisfied, firstly lining breeders pockets..... good breeders actually make a loss, they do not breed for money but have a job, breeding is actually a very expensive hobby.
> 
> i would like to know the ways moggies get pregnant, of course i know the basics, but do you advertise for a moggy stud or do you let the girl out and she comes home pregnant.
> 
> its easier with pedigree cats as breeders let you use their stud boys but on the basis or moggies i would just like to know how that works, its interesting and i enjoy gaining knowledge.


luckily i had a friend who had a tom that wasnt done so i used him. so if you dont make money why breed??? why put your cat through all that to make a loss? if you gain nothing???


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

catcoonz said:


> im not satisfied, firstly lining breeders pockets..... good breeders actually make a loss, they do not breed for money but have a job, breeding is actually a very expensive hobby.
> 
> i would like to know the ways moggies get pregnant, of course i know the basics, *but do you advertise for a moggy stud or do you let the girl out and she comes home pregnant.*
> 
> its easier with pedigree cats as breeders let you use their stud boys but on the basis or moggies i would just like to know how that works, its interesting and i enjoy gaining knowledge.


I have to say, I don't think I've ever seen anyone advertising for a moggy stud, plus a lot of these pregnancies are 'accidents', so I guess most moggies get pregnant with whichever local tom/s get to her first


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> so if you dont make money why breed??? why put your cat through all that to make a loss? if you gain nothing???


But you would put a cat through it just to make a profit? That's called farming, not breeding.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

havoc said:


> But you would put a cat through it just to make a profit? That's called farming, not breeding.


when did i make a profilt??? by keeping ALL the kittens?? how is that makign a profit?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> luckily i had a friend who had a tom that wasnt done so i used him. so if you dont make money why breed??? why put your cat through all that to make a loss? if you gain nothing???


i can already hear the moans from other people as they know exactly how much i love to answer these questions, sorry guys but here goes...long post.

i breed as i enjoy the traits of my chosen pedigree. i have chosen the best queens and studs to perfect this breed to the best of my capability.
giving new owners the joy of being owned by one of my kittens which ive carefully raised in my home, selected by the champion parents ive chosen is the best feeling in the world.
i only breed my queen once a year so the rest of the time she is my pampered pet, she is in perfect health and i can ensure all her kittens are also in the best of health.
its a joy to breed, everybody has a hobby, mine is cats.
i have one queen who didnt like being a mum, thats fine so i had her neutered and kept her as my pet but queens get a satisfaction of kittens.
its not about the money and i didnt enter the breeding world lightly, i handreared newborn kittens for cp for over 5 years, i purchased a pet pedigree and learnt all about them first then after saving up and learning what i know now it has taken me 10 years to begin breeding.
when you have bred a show stopper like this photo you will understand how much enjoyment you get, i was there at his birth, taken great care to perfect the pedigree line etc, i will stop now otherwise i will need a whole thread to myself...... you have to admit this is a stunning example of the breed i enjoy.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> when did i make a profilt??? by keeping ALL the kittens?? how is that makign a profit?


You're happy to make the assumption that breeders make profit though and that's their reason for doing it.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> i can already hear the moans from other people as they know exactly how much i love to answer these questions, sorry guys but here goes...long post.
> 
> i breed as i enjoy the traits of my chosen pedigree. i have chosen the best queens and studs to perfect this breed to the best of my capability.
> giving new owners the joy of being owned by one of my kittens which ive carefully raised in my home, selected by the champion parents ive chosen is the best feeling in the world.
> ...


what an amazing looking cat, and all credit to you. i dont see why i should be questioned as to why i did it i have my reasons i never sold or made money from my one cat that i bred i spent alot of money on her and have never bred since! and never would. you choose to breed thats fine i chose to breed her as i run out of options it was suggested to me so i did it! in my eyes end off im not a serial breeder who keeos doing it. 
i dont use my cats they are my life and i would never do anything that would harm them.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> I have to say, I don't think I've ever seen anyone advertising for a moggy stud, plus a lot of these pregnancies are 'accidents', so I guess most moggies get pregnant with whichever local tom/s get to her first


thats exactly my point......chuck her out get pregnant, doesnt matter what infections she or her kittens catch. doesnt matter how many toms mate her or if she gets injured. this to me is cruel.
many feral kittens/ cats are in rescue but i dont see them having one litter to calm the females down, they are neutered to stop the hormones.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

havoc said:


> You're happy to make the assumption that breeders make profit though and that's their reason for doing it.


your boring me now. i dont care why people breed to be honest


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> thats exactly my point......chuck her out get pregnant, doesnt matter what infections she or her kittens catch. doesnt matter how many toms mate her or if she gets injured. this to me is cruel.
> many feral kittens/ cats are in rescue but i dont see them having one litter to calm the females down, they are neutered to stop the hormones.


so what i dont see everyone who has a pedigree cat/dog breeding it to perfect the breed! does that make your wrong for doing it. i made my choice to breed her and didnt do it the way you described above so i feel no guilt


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> what an amazing looking cat, and all credit to you. i dont see why i should be questioned as to why i did it i have my reasons i never sold or made money from my one cat that i bred i spent alot of money on her and have never bred since! and never would. you choose to breed thats fine i chose to breed her as i run out of options it was suggested to me so i did it! in my eyes end off im not a serial breeder who keeos doing it.
> i dont use my cats they are my life and i would never do anything that would harm them.


thankyou, he is my pride and joy. so this is why i breed it has nothing to do with money.
i do think your better option would have been to neuter her instead of having kittens but thats my own personal opinion.
just think if all nervous feral female cats was to have a litter in rescues to calm them down they would be in an even more crisis than they already are, so i do agree neutering is the way to go.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> thankyou, he is my pride and joy. so this is why i breed it has nothing to do with money.
> i do think your better option would have been to neuter her instead of having kittens but thats my own personal opinion.
> just think if all nervous feral female cats was to have a litter in rescues to calm them down they would be in an even more crisis than they already are, so i do agree neutering is the way to go.


thats fine thats your opinion, when it was suggested i did it. but please dont suggest that i threw my cat outside to be mated by loads of different cats, like i said i have never bred since. and kept all her babies. im not going to keep going over it it was 6 years ago now. and she and babies are all still fine and still well looked after.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

i was just wondering how with moggies you got a tom, but as you have pointed out you used a blood tested tom from your friend so you knew he didnt have any infections.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> i was just wondering how with moggies you got a tom, but as you have pointed out you used a blood tested tom from your friend so you knew he didnt have any infections.


yes thats correct, i love the way i just came on and shared my experience now everyone else has gone and im left getting bashed (not by you) for breeding my cat lol i have never been into the cat bit before dont think ill bother again


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> yes thats correct, i love the way i just came on and shared my experience now everyone else has gone and im left getting bashed (not by you) for breeding my cat lol i have never been into the cat bit before dont think ill bother again


thats a shame if you leave already, i enjoy reading other peoples kitten experiences.
im glad you didnt just chuck her out, but you have to understand some of us although we breed we also work within rescues and see many irresponsible people who just let their cats have one litter, its no reflection on you, some chuck them out several times and being cat lovers its hard to understand the mentality of some people, especially when there are so many moggies already searching for new homes.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

It's not you, it's the vet who astounds me. If a vet suggests a course of action they are, under normal circumstances, responsible for the outcome. This vet had no idea you had access to a health tested tom, nor presumably that you had the wherewithal to fund any possible outcome. Would this vet have got out of bed to perform an emergency c-section at no cost? Did this vet worm and vaccinate all these kittens for free? It's amazingly irresponsible advice and could have caused you and the cat untold misery.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

dexter12 said:


> yes thats correct, i love the way i just came on and shared my experience now everyone else has gone and im left getting bashed (not by you) for breeding my cat lol i have never been into the cat bit before dont think ill bother again


I don't think people were bashing you.

I think they were more interested in how you find a stud for a moggy, as with pedigrees you pay for a stud that you know is health tested etc - I imagine its the same with breeding dogs.

I would also imagine they were facsinated by the advice the vet gave you to breed her. Willows breeders told me their vet gave them the same advice (they owned her mum and dad though), which is why I have Willow - and she had her first birthday in June, so it seems some vets do still give that advice.

It would be shame if you didnt come back to the cats section just because of this thread


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

I have no need to come back to be honest and I don't mean that nastily, that's the only experience I have had. All my cats are old now and just lay about so nothing to report  ok not bashed but I did feel like I was trying to be made to feel quilty by havoc! I paid for all tests to be done I have no guilt and feel no shame in saying I need my cat responsibly and kept all the kittens


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

dexter12 said:


> I have no need to come back to be honest and I don't mean that nastily, that's the only experience I have had. All my cats are old now and just lay about so nothing to report  ok not bashed but I did feel like I was trying to be made to feel quilty by havoc! I paid for all tests to be done I have no guilt and feel no shame in saying I need my cat responsibly and kept all the kittens


I didn't read it like that at all. We all do hat our vets tell us to more often than not without much question. I now spay my dogs after a few seasons, but used to spay at 6 months- and regretted it!
I, like havoc, am pretty astounded that even 6 years ago that is they type of advise some vets give. Not aimed at you at all, but that advise overall is pretty appaling.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

You invest more power in me than can possibly exist. Nobody can make another person feel guilty. I said early on that I was truly fascinated by the vet and I still am. They should be struck off. I don't expect a pet owner to understand why having a litter can *appear* to calm a cat down. The effect certainly exists, the cause is not the obvious one of having kittens. I do expect a trained professional to know better. I certainly expect them to give best advice regarding the health of any animal under their care.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

havoc said:


> You invest more power in me than can possibly exist. Nobody can make another person feel guilty. I said early on that I was truly fascinated by the vet and I still am. They should be struck off. I don't expect a pet owner to understand why having a litter can *appear* to calm a cat down. The effect certainly exists, the cause is not the obvious one of having kittens. I do expect a trained professional to know better. I certainly expect them to give best advice regarding the health of any animal under their care.


I never said u did make me feel quilty! A strangers opinion would never make me feel guilty


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

kodakkuki said:


> I didn't read it like that at all. We all do hat our vets tell us to more often than not without much question. I now spay my dogs after a few seasons, but used to spay at 6 months- and regretted it!
> I, like havoc, am pretty astounded that even 6 years ago that is they type of advise some vets give. Not aimed at you at all, but that advise overall is pretty appaling.


Ok that's how u read it, I read it differently to you.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

dexter12 said:


> i have got 5 cats 3 girls and 2 boys  one of them that i got was ferrell! it was getting to the point where i couldnt cope with her as she had attacked and seriously hurt my dog (a rottie) the vet suggested letting her have a litter as it can calm them down. so i kept her inside for a few months to save up money and then let her have a litter, i dont know if what the vet said is a view everyone will have but she was an amazing mum i spent alot of money on her before throughout and after the pregnancy i was lucky and had no problems as soon as i could i got her spayed and u would never of known she was ferrell. she may of turned into a lap cat anyway but for her having a litter worked. but i could afford too and i dont think you should have any animal if you cant afford everything for them. i spend a small fortune every month on stuff for my cats and dogs i wouldnt have it any other way


Are you honestly hand on heart saying that the neutering, which stops the hormones, doesnt make a cat call, become Hormonal, maybe seriously ill, teachy, sometimes angry as they dont know how to release the aggression, wasnt what stopped her acting out but the having a litter?  
I cant honestly beleive that someone would beleieve that, and the vet? Well, I dont think he should be working esp in this day and age!!! 



havoc said:


> And then had her spayed. It was the spaying which did the trick not the pregnancy. Cats can get very bad tempered as they're coming into call, a sort of feline PMT.


Great post!



dexter12 said:


> he didnt suggest how i did it, just put the idea out their he suggested it and i did it. i looked after my cat and kept all the kittens so whats your problem exactly? i didnt dump the kittens in a river or not have my cat checked throughought the pregnancy i made no moeny at all i was at a minus a massive minus! i still have all the cats to this day and still pay for them like i always have! i have never gone with a begging bowl to the PDSA or any other organisation i pay for all of my cats and before you go on about cat sheleters filling up i have 2 cats from a shelter and the feral one i rescued! so have never linned any breeders pockets ! so as far as im concerned your fascination should be satisfied
> 
> sorry should of been clearer when i say he didnt suggest how i did it, when he first mentioned it he said about it, and we went away and thought about it!


So you bred the feral rescue cat?  And if you read the cost thread or any other threads GOOD breeders dont make money, you arent lining anyones pockets, unless you buy from a BYB then yes you would be lining their pockets,



dexter12 said:


> luckily i had a friend who had a tom that wasnt done so i used him. so if you dont make money why breed??? why put your cat through all that to make a loss? if you gain nothing???


What health tests did you do on the male & female? Why wasnt he done? I wonder how many litters his sired now  I hope that neither of them were allowed outside?



simplysardonic said:


> I have to say, I don't think I've ever seen anyone advertising for a moggy stud, plus a lot of these pregnancies are 'accidents', so I guess most moggies get pregnant with whichever local tom/s get to her first


I have  on the rubbish sites, moggies, crosses the lost, some people just say things like its to go towards neutering them the cost of the fee, or they look like another breed so you can charge extra for them  its really sad, also pedigree cats that are on non active not for breeding gets me aswell  Or no papers, then they brag about how many kittens sired and lots of litters due, YIPPEE!!  



catcoonz said:


> thats exactly my point......chuck her out get pregnant, doesnt matter what infections she or her kittens catch. doesnt matter how many toms mate her or if she gets injured. this to me is cruel.
> many feral kittens/ cats are in rescue but i dont see them having one litter to calm the females down, they are neutered to stop the hormones.


Thats wat most people do, I just think people dont care, get a cheap cat throw her outside make a few £££ per kitten as they chuck them out just a quick 



dexter12 said:


> your boring me now. i dont care why people breed to be honest


You asked them!


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

catlove844 said:


> Are you honestly hand on heart saying that the neutering, which stops the hormones, doesnt make a cat call, become Hormonal, maybe seriously ill, teachy, sometimes angry as they dont know how to release the aggression, wasnt what stopped her acting out but the having a litter?
> I cant honestly beleive that someone would beleieve that, and the vet? Well, I dont think he should be working esp in this day and age!!!
> 
> Great post!
> ...


I'm not going to answer every question as to be honest I don't care what u think I bred her end of did it affect u? No so why bother yourself with swinging I did 6 years ago! Clearly u have nothing better to do other then post long winded and frankly boring questions! Maybe ind another hobby basket weaving maybe?  and not concern yourself so much with what other people do. Cat section=nuttahs


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> luckily i had a friend who had a tom that wasnt done so i used him. so if you dont make money why breed??? why put your cat through all that to make a loss? if you gain nothing???


Gosh - you seem fixated that breeding makes money for all of us, not just for BYBs.

I also take photos and I don't make money at that (sold a handful, won 2nd place and £30 in a comp), should I continue?


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> i have no idea what your going on about i kept all the kittens their was no question about me selling them or giving to family so your just rambling on and clearly not read my posts


I am not rambling on. I know you kept the kittens, but I was asking what would have happened if she'd had 7.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

dexter12 said:


> i have got 5 cats 3 girls and 2 boys  one of them that i got was ferrell! it was getting to the point where i couldnt cope with her as she had attacked and seriously hurt my dog (a rottie) the vet *suggested letting her have a litter as it can calm them down*. so i kept her inside for a few months to save up money and then let her have a litter, i dont know if what the vet said is a view everyone will have but she was an amazing mum i spent alot of money on her before throughout and after the pregnancy i was lucky and had no problems as soon as i could i got her spayed and u would never of known she was ferrell. she may of turned into a lap cat anyway but for her having a litter worked. but i could afford too and i dont think you should have any animal if you cant afford everything for them. i spend a small fortune every month on stuff for my cats and dogs i wouldnt have it any other way


What utter nonsense! I am shocked at this vet. A spay would most likely have done the trick.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

simplysardonic said:


> I have to say, I don't think I've ever seen anyone advertising for a moggy stud, plus a lot of these pregnancies are 'accidents', so I guess most moggies get pregnant with whichever local tom/s get to her first


And the local tom is very likely to be a FIV-positive feral. I feed and TNR at some feral colonies. A number of local housecats sometimes visit there. I think if the cat owners in the surrounding houses saw who their cat was "socialising" with, they wouldn't let them out, never mind not spay!  A number of the toms, especially the ones we haven't been able to trap have presented with symptoms of FELV or FIV. Yes, non-spayers, your kitty could very well have mated with one of them. :scared: (and then people ask me why I keep my cats indoors) :sad:


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

dexter12 said:


> I'm not going to answer every question as to be honest I don't care what u think I bred her end of did it affect u? No so why bother yourself with swinging I did 6 years ago! Clearly u have nothing better to do other then post long winded and frankly boring questions! Maybe ind another hobby basket weaving maybe?  and not concern yourself so much with what other people do. Cat section=nuttahs


Oh now I remember you. People, this is a troll potstirrer from the dog section. She is 12 years old, which is why she argues like a child. Just ignore.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> Oh now I remember you. People, this is a troll potstirrer from the dog section. She is 12 years old, which is why she argues like a child. Just ignore.


yes i am 12 you are correct


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> And the local tom is very likely to be a FIV-positive feral. I feed and TNR at some feral colonies. A number of local housecats sometimes visit there. I think if the cat owners in the surrounding houses saw who their cat was "socialising" with, they wouldn't let them out, never mind not spay!  A number of the toms, especially the ones we haven't been able to trap have presented with symptoms of FELV or FIV. Yes, non-spayers, your kitty could very well have mated with one of them. :scared: (and then people ask me why I keep my cats indoors) :sad:


firstly it was not a "local tom" it was a friends who was an indoor cat hence why he wasnt done! we done all the tests! noone would of had a problem if my cat and the tom was a pedigree! but because its a normal moggy you all get on your high horses! i bred my cat and....... whats the issue here the vet suggested the idea and i looked into breeding so i knew what i was doing saved up alot of money incase my cat or kittens needed urgent vetinary help so what is my crime here???


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

NexivRed said:


> I am not rambling on. I know you kept the kittens, but I was asking what would have happened if she'd had 7.


i would of kept them! i never had any intention of selling/giving them to anyone! lucky for me she only had two but had she of had more i would of kept them. i know you probably wont believe that but then i dont care


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Gosh - you seem fixated that breeding makes money for all of us, not just for BYBs.
> 
> I also take photos and I don't make money at that (sold a handful, won 2nd place and £30 in a comp), should I continue?


everyone seems fixated on the fact that i bred my moggy??? did i make monet no did i keep them yes did i look into breeding yes did i take my cat for vet checks throuought her pregnancy yes did i do all relevant tests before letting her mate with a friends indoor tom yes what more should i of done and please highlight what i have actually done wrong!


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## Bottroll (Sep 27, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> everyone seems fixated on the fact that i bred my moggy??? did i make monet no did i keep them yes did i look into breeding yes did i take my cat for vet checks throuought her pregnancy yes did i do all relevant tests before letting her mate with a friends indoor tom yes what more should i of done and please highlight what i have actually done wrong!


Don't worry about it, some people just do not get it, least you looked after them not just let it run around the streets getting all sorts and then pregnant. I am getting stick for breeding a pure bred BLH and Siamese cross ragdoll lol As long as your happy and the cats are healthy and doing well why people should care is beyond me


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> everyone seems fixated on the fact that i bred my moggy??? did i make monet no did i keep them yes did i look into breeding yes did i take my cat for vet checks throuought her pregnancy yes did i do all relevant tests before letting her mate with a friends indoor tom yes what more should i of done and please highlight what i have actually done wrong!


Due to your age I think you will find it was your parents that bed her, it was your parents that took her for health checks and I'm not so convinced about the health tests if I'm honest 

You did nothing wrong, but your parents could have researched more.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

Bottroll said:


> Don't worry about it, some people just do not get it, least you looked after them not just let it run around the streets getting all sorts and then pregnant. I am getting stick for breeding a pure bred BLH and Siamese cross ragdoll lol As long as your happy and the cats are healthy and doing well why people should care is beyond me


i can honestly say i am in shock at your comment, thank you so much for not bashing me for my choice. it was 6 years ago that i did this and stil have all cats now, i have never bred again and never would. i like coming on this forum for advice and to talk to people, but then their is the ones who think they know it all and if you think something different then your the worst person in the world! im now a troll as i have had rows before because i have a different opinion. i dont see why your getting stick the people who are giving us stick are no better then us i dont know them from adam so why they think they can bash people is beyond me. i would love a siamese cat


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Due to your age I think you will find it was your parents that bed her, it was your parents that took her for health checks and I'm not so convinced about the health tests if I'm honest
> 
> You did nothing wrong, but your parents could have researched more.


lol you actually think im 12???? well im not i wish i still was lol i dont care if your convinced or not i know what i did.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2012)

Well you seem to be arguing like one so I wouldn't put it past you 

In that case I'm not sure why you have a problem, this thread is about "accidental" pregnancies that could have been avoided. You bred your cat on purpose so what's your issue


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Well you seem to be arguing like one so I wouldn't put it past you
> 
> In that case I'm not sure why you have a problem, this thread is about "accidental" pregnancies that could have been avoided. You bred your cat on purpose so what's your issue


have you bothered to read all the posts, i guess not? otherwise you would know what the problem is! idiot! argue like a child does that make you a child for even entertaining me then! moron

and you say im arguing??? i see it as defending myself against people who think they know what i did and im putting people straight its not arguing im not going to sit here whilst you say "your not convinced i did the health tests" 
but as soon as i defend myself im arguing! LMFAO


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> have you bothered to read all the posts, i guess not? otherwise you would know what the problem is! idiot! argue like a child does that make you a child for even entertaining me then! moron


Err yes i have read the whole thread, which is why I don't know what your issue is. You have been asked questions but that is it.

But thanks so much for proving my point :lol: :lol:


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Err yes i have read the whole thread, which is why I don't know what your issue is. You have been asked questions but that is it.
> 
> But thanks so much for proving my point :lol: :lol:


i have answered all the questions! n people still think im wrong! and people dont believe me so whats the point in giving answers??? when you just say im not convinced???


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## dancemagicdance (Sep 27, 2012)

B3rnie, what do you mean? Personal insults are always the most mature things to use when trying to get someone to see your point of view :001_tt2:


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

dancemagicdance said:


> B3rnie, what do you mean? Personal insults are always the most mature things to use when trying to get someone to see your point of view :001_tt2:


and so it has begun other people involving themselfs! im fed up of everyone saying the same stuff to me and then when i answer they say im not convinced! well what a shame what more can i do to convince you!


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> i have answered all the questions! n people still think im wrong! and people dont believe me so whats the point in giving answers??? when you just say im not convinced???


I'm entitled to my opinion as is the rest of the members. We don't all have to agree with everything ya know 

No one is attacking you (in fact you are the only one name calling and attacking now lmao) so I see no reason for you to become defensive, unless there really is a little bit of guilt lurking :thumbsup:


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> I'm entitled to my opinion as is the rest of the members. We don't all have to agree with everything ya know
> 
> No one is attacking you (in fact you are the only one name calling and attacking now lmao) so I see no reason for you to become defensive, unless there really is a little bit of guilt lurking :thumbsup:


no their really isnt, i came on here and shared my ecperience now i have had two days of people saying im wrong and questioning me and then not believeing me so why ask if i did tests then when i say yes say well i dont believe you! why should i have any guilt!??? i did nothing wrong


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> no their really isnt, i came on here and shared my ecperience now i have had two days of people saying im wrong and questioning me and then not believeing me so why ask if i did tests then when i say yes say well i dont believe you! why should i have any guilt!??? i did nothing wrong


Ok you have a chance to convince me if you wish to do so (not bothered either way but you do seem to have an issue with people doubting you), could you tell me what tests where run?

I know it was 6 years ago but you should still have a rough idea


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Ok you have a chance to convince me if you wish to do so (not bothered either way but you do seem to have an issue with people doubting you), could you tell me what tests where run?
> 
> I know it was 6 years ago but you should still have a rough idea


once again i know your not going to believe me but i have no idea what the names are it was a blood test if i remeber rightly and he did a swob. i could of googled the names and stuff but then im sure u would think im lieing anyway im not here to convince you as your a nobody to me so your opinion of me means nothing.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> once again i know your not going to believe me but i have no idea what the names are it was a blood test if i remeber rightly and he did a swob. i could of googled the names and stuff but then im sure u would think im lieing anyway im not here to convince you as your a nobody to me so your opinion of me means nothing.


If that is the case then why do you have an issue?

If you don't care if any of us believe you then why moan about it :confused1:


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## wobblecat (Oct 15, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> And the local tom is very likely to be a FIV-positive feral. I feed and TNR at some feral colonies. A number of local housecats sometimes visit there. I think if the cat owners in the surrounding houses saw who their cat was "socialising" with, they wouldn't let them out, never mind not spay!  A number of the toms, especially the ones we haven't been able to trap have presented with symptoms of FELV or FIV. Yes, non-spayers, your kitty could very well have mated with one of them. :scared: (and then people ask me why I keep my cats indoors) :sad:


This is all very interestesting reading i must say! Being a new forum member it's quite alarming to see how a topic can esculate into such a highly strung debate! :scared:
It does seem to be going round in circles though...It happened 6 years ago and obviuosly will not happen again...:thumbsup:
In regards to the above i do get annoyed with that typical view on FIV. I have 2 FIV cats who have co existed with my 2 non FIV cats happily & healthily for the last 8 years. Working in a shelter we get many strays, semi ferals, 'bruisers' through the door and less than 1% turn out to be FIV+. Very rarely we get an FeLV+ result. It is not a reason not to let your cat out!! Your cat has more chance of catching the flu vrus etc than contracting FIV/FeLV. FIV cats are not monsters! You cannot diagnose if a cat has FIV from just looking at it! Mrs. Smiths indoor cat Sooty could have it and you'd never know. They should never be persecuted and live just as long of a life if not longer than non FIV's when looked after. 
Just had to say my view...i know it's a bit off topic but i love & support my FIV boys


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> If that is the case then why do you have an issue?
> 
> If you don't care if any of us believe you then why moan about it :confused1:


like th other lady said its going in circles, i have said all i can and have defended myself and answered everything so what more do you want me to say. and i dont care if you believe me or not but i will always defend mysel! im not moaning im defending myself and telling the truth end off!


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

wobblecat said:


> This is all very interestesting reading i must say! Being a new forum member it's quite alarming to see how a topic can esculate into such a highly strung debate! :scared:
> It does seem to be going round in circles though...It happened 6 years ago and obviuosly will not happen again...:thumbsup:
> In regards to the above i do get annoyed with that typical view on FIV. I have 2 FIV cats who have co existed with my 2 non FIV cats happily & healthily for the last 8 years. Working in a shelter we get many strays, semi ferals, 'bruisers' through the door and less than 1% turn out to be FIV+. Very rarely we get an FeLV+ result. It is not a reason not to let your cat out!! Your cat has more chance of catching the flu vrus etc than contracting FIV/FeLV. FIV cats are not monsters! You cannot diagnose if a cat has FIV from just looking at it! Mrs. Smiths indoor cat Sooty could have it and you'd never know. They should never be persecuted and live just as long of a life if not longer than non FIV's when looked after.
> Just had to say my view...i know it's a bit off topic but i love & support my FIV boys


no i have never bred since and never would. it escalates if you do someyhing people dont agree with hence me breeding my moggy im clearly a horrible pet owner who treats her animals badly lmao


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

wobblecat said:


> This is all very interestesting reading i must say! Being a new forum member it's quite alarming to see how a topic can esculate into such a highly strung debate! :scared:
> It does seem to be going round in circles though...It happened 6 years ago and obviuosly will not happen again...:thumbsup:
> In regards to the above i do get annoyed with that typical view on FIV. I have 2 FIV cats who have co existed with my 2 non FIV cats happily & healthily for the last 8 years. Working in a shelter we get many strays, semi ferals, 'bruisers' through the door and less than 1% turn out to be FIV+. Very rarely we get an FeLV+ result. It is not a reason not to let your cat out!! Your cat has more chance of catching the flu vrus etc than contracting FIV/FeLV. FIV cats are not monsters! You cannot diagnose if a cat has FIV from just looking at it! Mrs. Smiths indoor cat Sooty could have it and you'd never know. They should never be persecuted and live just as long of a life if not longer than non FIV's when looked after.
> Just had to say my view...i know it's a bit off topic but i love & support my FIV boys


No-one said FIV+ cats are monsters I have no problem with FIV+ or FELV+cats. I feed and care for them like any other. However, I think it is important that people are at least aware of the risks. Like it or not, FIV and FELV is on the increase for some reason. For instance, my vet, who works a lot with our feral cases, says that in the last two or three years, her FELV+ cases have increased year on year by 25%. The world is changing, and it is becoming more dangerous for free roaming kitties, which is why I think that people should at least consider whether they should allow their cat out (although I agree that it is a personal choice). Low risk or not, we do not rehome FIV+ cats to FIV-neg households.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Very rarely we get an FeLV+ result


I'm so pleased to see someone confirm that  I sometimes think people don't believe me.


> I have 2 FIV cats who have co existed with my 2 non FIV cats happily & healthily for the last 8 years


Nice to hear that too. In the context of this thread, you wouldn't deliberately breed from an FIV +ve cat.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> like th other lady said its going in circles, i have said all i can and have defended myself and answered everything so what more do you want me to say. and i dont care if you believe me or not but i will always defend mysel! im not moaning im defending myself and telling the truth end off!


But that is the point, you had nothing to defend 

I do find it funny that these threads brings out the defensive in people (general people not directed at anyone) when there is no need.

If you have no issue with what you did then great, that's fab  Mine and others opinions has no relevance as to whether the cat will become pregnant because it has happened, however as you posted your experience on a public forum then as such members are entitled to decide if they agree with it or not 



> hence me breeding my moggy im clearly a horrible pet owner who treats her animals badly lmao


    If you can point me to a post that states that then I will take back my comment that you didn't need to defend yourself :thumbsup:


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## wobblecat (Oct 15, 2012)

havoc said:


> I'm so pleased to see someone confirm that  I sometimes think people don't believe me.
> 
> Nice to hear that too. In the context of this thread, you wouldn't deliberately breed from an FIV +ve cat.


I'm a vet nurse working at a smaller branch of the rescue organisation i work for but our weekly cat intake must be around 40 cats per week. We do routine blood testing on all un neutered cats, strays, queens or anything that may look suspicious or come from a large multicat household/hoarding situation which equates to every 2nd cat! I've worked there 5 years and i can honestly say we've had 2 FeLV+ and 7 FIV+. We are finding the situation is getting better 

& Absolutely not!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Can I just say that in my humble opinion, there is nothing wrong with breeding a moggy if it is done properly, with care and health tests. Otherwise we would be left with only pedigree cats and I for one, would rather have a moggie.

But people who don't bother to spay their cats and then wonder why they get pregnant are a bit of a puzzle. I know someone who didn't get their female cat done early enough and she came back preggers. She was a very small cat and I think she was impregnated with an Abyssinian, at least that is what the surviving kittens looked like. They were enormous and very nearly killed her.

If you value your cat, get her done before something like this happens.

Now can we please keep it civil and stop accusing people of being 12 when they are obviously not.

Thank you.


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## mezzer (Oct 6, 2009)

Tamiyamumma said:


> I am going to leave this forum if threads like these don't stop!
> 
> This attitude is disgusting!


Leave then!!!!

YOUR attitude is the disgusting one :cursing:


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

wobblecat said:


> I'm a vet nurse working at a smaller branch of the rescue organisation i work for but our weekly cat intake must be around 40 cats per week. We do routine blood testing on all un neutered cats, strays, queens or anything that may look suspicious or come from a large multicat household/hoarding situation which equates to every 2nd cat! I've worked there 5 years and i can honestly say we've had 2 FeLV+ and 7 FIV+. We are finding the situation is getting better
> 
> & Absolutely not!


Would that be Wood Green by any chance? I notice you're in Cambs


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## mezzer (Oct 6, 2009)

"If someone can't afford a cat (and that includes getting said cat neutered) then they shouldn't have a cat at that time, simples"



I very much agree with this previous comment........If anyone has pets that cannot afford to care for them, then you shouldn't have pets in the first place, fact!

Just recently I have read so many stories involving pets, being dumped and abandoned for having an illness or owners prosecuted or sometimes not, for failing to provide veterinary care for their pets....its a disgrace.


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## wobblecat (Oct 15, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Would that be Wood Green by any chance? I notice you're in Cambs


i do indeed


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

wobblecat said:


> I'm a vet nurse working at a smaller branch of the rescue organisation i work for but our weekly cat intake must be around 40 cats per week. We do routine blood testing on all un neutered cats, strays, queens or anything that may look suspicious or come from a large multicat household/hoarding situation which equates to every 2nd cat! I've worked there 5 years and i can honestly say we've had 2 FeLV+ and 7 FIV+. We are finding the situation is getting better
> 
> & Absolutely not!


That may be so in your case, but the majority of the cats we rescue are feral moms and kittens or from townships. I recently had a kitten put down (that was thrown away by a pet shop :sad that tested positive for FELV. So that whole litter including mom was FELV-positive. I haven't found it that rare at all.


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## wobblecat (Oct 15, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> That may be so in your case, but the majority of the cats we rescue are feral moms and kittens or from townships. I recently had a kitten put down (that was thrown away by a pet shop :sad that tested positive for FELV. So that whole litter including mom was FELV-positive. I haven't found it that rare at all.


I assume this is S.Africa? (noticed your location). The FIV/FeLV virus can be more prevelant in one area than another. I guess it's a bigger problem where you are


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

mezzer said:


> ........If anyone has pets that cannot afford to care for them, then you shouldn't have pets in the first place, fact!
> 
> Just recently I have read so many stories involving pets, being dumped and abandoned for having an illness or owners prosecuted or sometimes not, for failing to provide veterinary care for their pets....its a disgrace.


It isn't that simple, though, is it? Someone might be able to afford the pets and the care and everything else, then they lose their job or get ill and can't work or something else goes wrong. The PDSA will only see pets from people who are on housing benefit, or council tax benefit and who live in their catchment area.

I don't think people should give up their pets in these circumstances, it is not fair on them and certainly not fair on the pet.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> It isn't that simple, though, is it? Someone might be able to afford the pets and the care and everything else, then they lose their job or get ill and can't work or something else goes wrong. The PDSA will only see pets from people who are on housing benefit, or council tax benefit and who live in their catchment area.
> 
> *I don't think people should give up their pets in these circumstances, it is not fair on them and certainly not fair on the pet*.


I agree with that, my problem is with people going out and acquiring new pets or breeding to make a few bob


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

mezzer said:


> "If someone can't afford a cat (and that includes getting said cat neutered) then they shouldn't have a cat at that time, simples"
> 
> I very much agree with this previous comment........If anyone has pets that cannot afford to care for them, then you shouldn't have pets in the first place, fact!
> 
> Just recently I have read so many stories involving pets, being dumped and abandoned for having an illness or owners prosecuted or sometimes not, for failing to provide veterinary care for their pets....its a disgrace.





B3rnie said:


> I agree with that, my problem is with people going out and acquiring new pets or breeding to make a few bob


Where I used to take Joshua to hydrotherapy, they fostered dogs for newfoundland rescue. I was always tempted and had to really sternly tell myself I could not afford a third newfie. It is very hard, especially when you are looking at a beautiful dog who needs a home, but then my dogs would have had to go without.

I just don't like to hear people preaching to others about how they should not have got the pet if they can't afford it, when they don't know the circumstances.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> or breeding to make a few bob


I suppose you could make money if you got a stray, allowed it to get pregnant and sold the kittens off before having to pay out for anything. Get shot of them at six weeks and they're barely weaned so you won't have had high food or cat litter costs. I happen to have a large litter at present. It's been costing about a fiver a day to feed the mum. It's costing more now they're weaning and of course cat litter is going to be a major expense. In a few weeks I will be facing a bill of around £700 at the vets for vaccinations.

It's great making all this money


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## mezzer (Oct 6, 2009)

"I just don't like to hear people preaching to others about how they should not have got the pet if they can't afford it, when they don't know the circumstances".


Errmmmmm, excuse me, I'm not preaching actually 

Yes, I respect that some folk have circumstances, I for one have circumstances at the moment....My husband was made redundant 4 weeks ago from his job, which now leaves us with one salary, mine!!

We have rent, utility bills, telephone, etc to pay like any other people but that doesn't stop us from prioritising our household. We have 4 indoor cats, yes 4, who are quite a great expense each month, two of them need their annual booster for their vaccinations, should I forget about this as it is going to cost me money that I can't really spare,? of course not, PRIORITY then comes into play, we will make adjustments so that the cats get their booster and if it means going without something then so be it.

Would people dump their children outside their local social service's office, if they couldn't afford to feed or clothe them?, and before you come back with its not the same comparison, children and animals, of course it is......animals are still members of peoples families and you have a duty as a pet owner to provide care for them.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

spid said:


> If EVERYBODY spayed there would be a mass cat extinction!


That may sound like you are joking but I DO remember about ten/15 years back seeing  article about CPL (as they then were, before they became CP minus the League) importing unspayed kittens to ?? Isle of Wight? Isle of Man?? - one of the islands anyway as so many people there had had their cats spayed that there was a shortage of kittens available. Absolutely true. One imagines they were going to be monitored.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Would people dump their children outside their local social service's office, if they couldn't afford to feed or clothe them?


Rarely but not unheard of. More likely they expect you and me to pay for them to feed and clothe them while they produce ever more they can't afford to keep.


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

I was made redundant at the end of September, thanks to this government's austerity measures. My 3 cats' vaccinations are due in January - we're saving now. I don't intend to get to January, then not bother because we can't afford it. And we know that while we're insured we shouldn't have any vet bills we can't cope with.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

simplysardonic said:


> Lol, I love that people who genuinely care about animal welfare are now being labelled 'cold hearted'. Heard it all now
> 
> Don't it just- cats, dog, rodents, all species- funny how a lot of us easily manage to avoid these 'unwanted' pregnancies & then there are others who seem to have an 'accident' & others still have 'accident' after 'accident', so it begs the question- how much do people _really_want to avoid unnecessary litters? Sorry, thats the cold hearted cynic in me emerging


When my neutered boy cat was missing for a few days and I put up posters, I got a really snotty phone call from some bitch who asked me "I wonder if it is the one that _keeps on_ getting my female cat pregnant? Can you describe him?" I said, yes, I could, he was black and white and had no testicles. She did not even get the message.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Well, of course one has sympathy if people's circumstances change. **** does happen. My problem is people who know they cannot afford pets, then proceed to get a "free kitten", knowing they cannot afford to pay subsequent vet bills, spay ops etc. Even as an "irresponsible" poor student I still managed to pay for my cat's sterilisation, vaccs, food and meds because I took on extra waitressing shifts to do so.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

havoc said:


> But never suggested spaying her so she wasn't quite so hormonal?


Who is the vet for God's sake?


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2012)

havoc said:


> *I suppose you could make money if you got a stray, allowed it to get pregnant and sold the kittens off before having to pay out for anything.* Get shot of them at six weeks and they're barely weaned so you won't have had high food or cat litter costs. I happen to have a large litter at present. It's been costing about a fiver a day to feed the mum. It's costing more now they're weaning and of course cat litter is going to be a major expense. In a few weeks I will be facing a bill of around £700 at the vets for vaccinations.
> 
> It's great making all this money


These are the sort of people that I was referring too, ya know, the ones that accidentally on purpose "let" their cats out when they are in call :thumbsup:

I know you don't make money breeding properly, but I have lost count of the times people have told me that making money is one of the primary reasons as to why they decided to have a litter


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Calvine said:


> When my neutered boy cat was missing for a few days and I put up posters, I got a really snotty phone call from some bitch who asked me "I wonder if it is the one that _keeps on_ getting my female cat pregnant? Can you describe him?" I said, yes, I could, he was black and white and had no testicles. She did not even get the message.


That is quite sad, actually, that anyone would think like that. Probably thinks there is some male cat about who keeps raping all the female ones and should have more morals. Did you not ask her why she didn't get her cat spayed? She is probably still trying to work out what testicles are?


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

this thread seems pointless now everyone jiust highlighting who should shouldnt have pets!


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> That is quite sad, actually, that anyone would think like that. Probably thinks there is some male cat about who keeps raping all the female ones and should have more morals. Did you not ask her why she didn't get her cat spayed? She is probably still trying to work out what testicles are?


lol :thumbsup:


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

Calvine said:


> Who is the vet for God's sake?


not sure what difference that makes. it was called margets


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Makes a world of difference, especially to me as we have a Margetts in our nearest town. With no disrespect to you, if the Margetts vet who gave you that advice is any indication of the calibre of staff they employ then I'd want to avoid them at all costs.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> Makes a world of difference, especially to me as we have a Margetts in our nearest town. With no disrespect to you, if the Margetts vet who gave you that advice is any indication of the calibre of staff they employ then I'd want to avoid them at all costs.


well it has closed down and did so years ago. as for the one near you it may not be the same just a Coincidence that its called the same.just to highlight again his advice did work. so wether you think its bad advice for my cat it worked  so im happy with the advice i got .


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

dexter12 said:


> well it has closed down and did so years ago. as for the one near you it may not be the same just a Coincidence that its called the same.


One can only hope.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> One can only hope.


if it bothers you that much then dont use that vets just to be sure


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

dexter12 said:


> if it bothers you that much then dont use that vets just to be sure


It really does bother me that much so it's good to have a heads up on which practice it was. Hopefully, as you mentioned, they're now out of business as a percentage of the kittens I breed go to people fairly local who might have chosen to use them.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> It really does bother me that much so it's good to have a heads up on which practice it was. Hopefully, as you mentioned, they're now out of business as a percentage of the kittens I breed go to people fairly local who might have chosen to use them.


this may not even be the same branch! as far as i was aware this margets was a one man band so to speak not a big franchise! hence why he went out of business.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> It really does bother me that much so it's good to have a heads up on which practice it was. Hopefully, as you mentioned, they're now out of business as a percentage of the kittens I breed go to people fairly local who might have chosen to use them.


Like any other big company, they are only as good as the practitioner they send out. When I worked as a driving instructor, I got very sick of people telling me that either BSM are the best or BSM are awful, all because one person got a really good instructor, the other person got a crap one.

Same thing with a large veterinary practice. One vet might be brilliant, one might be stuck in the dark ages and still giving out old wives' tales as genuine advice.

You might even find one who will tell you that raw meat will make your dog aggressive; it is what they used to believe.

I think with vets, like doctors, you don't know if they are any good until you really need them.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

dexter12 said:


> this may not even be the same branch! as far as i was aware this margets was a one man band so to speak not a big franchise! hence why he went out of business.


Most vets, one man band or not, will have a presence on the internet these days even if it's only for contact details such as through Yell. The only Margetts Vets on the net were/are(?) local to me. But anyway as you say they're now out business, no need for concern. I had visions of my kittens' owners being given the same dreadful advice when they took them along to be spayed.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

i dont want people thinking that every vet sergery called margets is the same, this is advice which was given to me 6 years ago, in my opinion it was good advice, but this one has now closed down. and like newfies mum said not all the vets are the same their was 2 in this practice maybe the other one wouldnt of given same advice who knows!


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> Most vets, one man band or not, will have a presence on the internet these days even if it's only for contact details such as through Yell. The only Margetts Vets on the net were/are(?) local to me. But anyway as you say they're now out business, no need for concern. I had visions of my kittens' owners being given the same dreadful advice when they took them along to be spayed.


this is true but you are taking this a little out of context, i never took my cat their to be spayed and then was given this advice! and i dont see it as dreadfull advice it worked for me and have always appreciated the advice he gave.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

dexter12 said:


> i dont want people thinking that every vet sergery called margets is the same, this is advice which was given to me 6 years ago, in my opinion it was good advice, but this one has now closed down. and like newfies mum said not all the vets are the same their was 2 in this practice maybe the other one wouldnt of given same advice who knows!


Unless you were telling a porkie about the vet and now are backtracking? Prehaps just making up a story to get a reaction? I smell a rat....


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

dexter12 said:


> it was getting to the point where i couldnt cope with her as she had attacked and seriously hurt my dog (a rottie) the vet suggested letting her have a litter as it can calm them down.


This is the advice the vet gave you. Having a litter of kittens does not calm a cat down. Being spayed most often does. No good, knowledgeable, ethical vet will advise a litter of kittens to "calm a cat down". It's as simple as.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> Unless you were telling a porkie about the vet and now are backtracking? Prehaps just making up a story to get a reaction? I smell a rat....


you would because you clearly have a problem with me. why would i want people thinking thats all vets called margets give this advice you really are as strupid as your cat looks on that lead! all you do is dig at me when i post so why dont you stop looking at what i write! you must really have a low opinion of humans to think im lieing about that,


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> This is the advice the vet gave you. Having a litter of kittens does not calm a cat down. Being spayed most often does. No good, knowledgeable, ethical vet will advise a litter of kittens to "calm a cat down". It's as simple as.


yes it is but i wasnt their in the first place to get her spayed which is what you implied! well thats the advice he gave and it worked! how many more times do i need to re write this???and no its not as simple as that because thats the advice he gave and it worked!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> Unless you were telling a porkie about the vet and now are backtracking? Prehaps just making up a story to get a reaction? I smell a rat....


I believe Dexter said it was six years ago; anything can change in that amount of time. They may have been taken over by another company, they may simply have bought the name. I could say don't go to so and so vet, I don't like him, he doesn't seem to like animals. But he isn't there any more, someone else is but he still uses the same name.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

dexter12 said:


> yes it is but i wasnt their in the first place to get her spayed which is what you implied! well thats the advice he gave and it worked! how many more times do i need to re write this???


You will see, if you read back, that I have not once commented on your choice to breed from your cat. My only interest was in the vet who gave that advice and, as it turned out, he is (or was, maybe) local to me. I don't consider it to be good advice and you must try to understand that there are very, very few vets in the whole of kingdom come who would give such advice. Hence why I'm saying that vet is to be avoided at all costs.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I believe Dexter said it was six years ago; anything can change in that amount of time. They may have been taken over by another company, they may simply have bought the name. I could say don't go to so and so vet, I don't like him, he doesn't seem to like animals. But he isn't there any more, someone else is but he still uses the same name.


this person has got a problem with me so nothing i say would ever be good enough, every time i comment she calls me a troll or that im lieing! n made this whole story up. because i have that much free time to make a story up. i thought this site was to share experiences??? how foolish of me if your experience isnt to what other people think is right then your lieing!


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> You will see, if you read back, that I have not once commented on your choice to breed from your cat. My only interest was in the vet who gave that advice and, as it turned out, he is (or was, maybe) local to me. I don't consider it to be good advice and you must try to understand that there are very, very few vets in the whole of kingdom come who would give such advice. Hence why I'm saying that vet is to be avoided at all costs.


this is getting silly now we can keep this going for ages. i understand you dont consider it good advice and thats fine. people have different opinions.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

dexter12 said:


> this person has got a problem with me so nothing i say would ever be good enough, every time i comment she calls me a troll or that im lieing! n made this whole story up. because i have that much free time to make a story up. i thought this site was to share experiences??? how foolish of me if your experience isnt to what other people think is right then your lieing!


I have to agree. Will all members please refrain from stating as fact that which they only suspect. In other words, don't call someone a liar unless you know it is true.

Although the advice sounds pretty stupid, it is not the worst thing I have heard from a vet. When I got my newfoundland puppy at eight weeks old, and I already had a two year old newfoundland, my vet told me to "let them play rough". Giant breed puppies are extremely delicate and should not even be left unsupervised with an adult one.

He also assured me my 17 year old cat had dementia when I know for certain that it was a stroke. You can't always follow the advice of a vet, but no one can blame people for doing just that.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I have to agree. Will all members please refrain from stating as fact that which they only suspect. In other words, don't call someone a liar unless you know it is true.
> 
> Although the advice sounds pretty stupid, it is not the worst thing I have heard from a vet. When I got my newfoundland puppy at eight weeks old, and I already had a two year old newfoundland, my vet told me to "let them play rough". Giant breed puppies are extremely delicate and should not even be left unsupervised with an adult one.
> 
> He also assured me my 17 year old cat had dementia when I know for certain that it was a stroke. You can't always follow the advice of a vet, but no one can blame people for doing just that.


exactly! had this advice been given to me now i would of questioned it, and would never do the same again. but at the time i did it it worked and luckily her pregnancy went perfectly. so for me at the time the advice worked. i was alot younger then and was at breaking point with a very vicious cat


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I have to agree. *Will all members please refrain from stating as fact that which they only suspect. In other words, don't call someone a liar unless you know it is true.*
> Although the advice sounds pretty stupid, it is not the worst thing I have heard from a vet. When I got my newfoundland puppy at eight weeks old, and I already had a two year old newfoundland, my vet told me to "let them play rough". Giant breed puppies are extremely delicate and should not even be left unsupervised with an adult one.
> 
> He also assured me my 17 year old cat had dementia when I know for certain that it was a stroke. You can't always follow the advice of a vet, but no one can blame people for doing just that.


I was merely asking if she was telling a porkie and what I suspected. As a mod, I find that you are quite biased in this case. She OP is allowed to call people morons and idiots and stupid, but others cannot ask if she was perhaps making a story up? As a mod, kindly declare your interest in protecting this member whose posts seem to be generally rude, aggressive and provocative. This troll-like (note I did not say 'troll' ) poster keeps on mocking me because I have an avatar of my cat on a mynwood harness. I have a good reason for that, but she has not bothered to find out. Imagine if I judged her by her avatar (two overweight dogs) or yours :scared:. I am sure I would be crucified for that.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> I was merely asking if she was telling a porkie and what I suspected. As a mod, I find that you are quite biased in this case. She OP is allowed to call people morons and idiots and stupid, but others cannot ask if she was perhaps making a story up? As a mod, kindly declare your interest in protecting this member whose posts seem to be generally rude, aggressive and provocative. This troll-like (note I did not say 'troll' ) poster keeps on mocking me because I have an avatar of my cat on a mynwood harness. I have a good reason for that, but she has not bothered to find out. Imagine if I judged her by her avatar (two overweight dogs) or yours :scared:. I am sure I would be crucified for that.


two over weight dogs??? one possibly two no as one is a pup! and i have been told of by this very same mod before so her protecting me! def not! you did say troll in an earlier post look back! you can judge my dogs i dont care you let your cat wear a lead  own it be proud. 
you was told off for calling me a lier! nothing else


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

dexter12 said:


> two over weight dogs??? one possibly two no! and i have been told of by this very same mod before so her protecting me! def not! you did say troll in an earlier post look back!


I rest my case. It is not nice being judged on an avatar, is it?


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> I rest my case. It is not nice being judged on an avatar, is it?


you rest your case?? i didnt get the ump about you saying that. you said two overweight dogs which is not correct one is a pup so def not over weight the rottie is 10 so yeah is on the larger side. no case to rest. like the way you ignored me commenting on the fact you call me a troll shall i highlight it for you and re post it???


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I believe Dexter said it was six years ago...


It was old-fashioned advice 20 years ago.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> It was old-fashioned advice 20 years ago.


20 years ago! i dont remember you being there to know how long ago it was!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> I was merely asking if she was telling a porkie and what I suspected. As a mod, I find that you are quite biased in this case. She OP is allowed to call people morons and idiots and stupid, but others cannot ask if she was perhaps making a story up? As a mod, kindly declare your interest in protecting this member whose posts seem to be generally rude, aggressive and provocative. This troll-like (note I did not say 'troll' ) poster keeps on mocking me because I have an avatar of my cat on a mynwood harness. I have a good reason for that, but she has not bothered to find out. Imagine if I judged her by her avatar (two overweight dogs) or yours :scared:. I am sure I would be crucified for that.


I have no interest in protecting anyone. I just don't particularly want to have to close a valuable discussion because of a few personal remarks. If you wish to put a harness on your cat, that is your business. A lot of people do, so I am told.

I just want to keep it civil, that's all. Before I was awarded the illustrious title of "moderator" I used to get very miffed at threads being closed before I had a chance to put in my two cents worth, so I am trying to avoid doing the same thing.

This thread is about the irresponsibility of letting a female, unspayed cat outside to get pregnant, putting her life at risk and producing even more kittens to end up in rescue. Can we keep it on topic please.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> Oh now I remember you. People, this is a troll potstirrer from the dog section. She is 12 years old, which is why she argues like a child. Just ignore.


i rest my case!!!


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Bloody hell guys!! 

I started this thread to highlight what can go wrong with unplanned, accidental litters - in the vain hope it just might make someone who was thinking of not getting their cat neutered, think again.

I didn't want it to turn into a witch hunt or an argument about what vets have advised in the past.

Most of us trust our vets, and take their advise - if we know better then we would be vets ourselves would we not?

Can we just stop with the name calling and stupid arguments now - I will be really p'eed off if this gets closed :mad2:


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Bloody hell guys!!
> 
> I started this thread to highlight what can go wrong with unplanned, accidental litters - in the vain hope it just might make someone who was thinking of not getting their cat neutered, think again.
> 
> ...


thats fare enough im happy to stop. and ill appoligise to you as your post has been ruined. by mysekf and others. i will say nothing else if nothing else is said to me !


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

I was interested in the original topic of this thread.... :closedeyes:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> 20 years ago! i dont remember you being there to know how long ago it was!


From what you say 20 years ago you weren't born whereas I was adult, had left home and brought my own house and some cats. However I can assure you that even 20 years ago decent vets knew that spaying a female cat would calm her down.

Even hundreds of years ago when I was a small child my parents had our female cat neutered before she had any kittens.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> From what you say 20 years ago you weren't born whereas I was adult, had left home and brought my own house and some cats. However I can assure you that even 20 years ago decent vets knew that spaying a female cat would calm her down.
> 
> Even hundreds of years ago when I was a small child my parents had our female cat neutered before she had any kittens.


100 years ago you was a small child? just out of interest how old are you?

i never nade out like i wasnt born 20 years ago as i was so bit confused as to where u got that info from?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

OrientalSlave said:


> From what you say 20 years ago you weren't born whereas I was adult, had left home and brought my own house and some cats. However I can assure you that even 20 years ago decent vets knew that spaying a female cat would calm her down.
> 
> Even hundreds of years ago when I was a small child my parents had our female cat neutered before she had any kittens.


My parents took the cheaper option, I'm afraid, and only had male animals. I have spent months trying to persuade my daughter to have her male cat neutered, that there were enough unwanted kittens in the world. A couple of months ago he went missing and didn't come back till last week and that finally scared her into having him done.


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## auspiciousmind (Sep 2, 2012)

And still it carries on.
Really is it necessary carry on? It's not even a heated debate it's just an argument that seems to be getting more and more immature.

McWillow doesn't want the thread closed.. so out of respect surely you'd just stop now Dexter?


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

auspiciousmind said:


> And still it carries on.
> Really is it necessary carry on? It's not even a heated debate it's just an argument that seems to be getting more and more immature.
> 
> McWillow doesn't want the thread closed.. so out of respect surely you'd just stop now Dexter?


i said i would stop if noone said anything else to me. but they did so why just mention my name? i had no intention of carrying on. im not arguing with myself am i if your going to name people dont just pick on one person i.e. me!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Dexter, then don't carry on. Ignore the rest of us.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I agree it's getting a little silly  After all, Dexter has accepted that, although the believes the advice worked for her, that it was somewhat unorthodox and that it isn't advice she would follow now. i think the point, though, Dexter, is that this was only 6 years ago... not twenty, thirty, forty or more years ago when vets may have advised that sort of thing.


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Dexter, then don't carry on. Ignore the rest of us.


why write to me then!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sorry, McWillow, but I have tried to steer the topic back to where it belongs, but it seems that people prefer to argue so I am going to have to close it.


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