# (Looooong ) Lolas "Breeder" update (share experiences hopefully)



## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Hi everyone, i just thought id give a little update, for those that have seen my previous threads & also share my "buying a puppy experiences" - Im not looking for advice as such today its just a wee rant haha.

Soooo..... me and my partner went down the gumtree route (being a total Newbie and not finding these forums until afterwards. So we found a family who had a female and a male black Labs and of course the obvious happened......7 puppies later here we are. So me and my OH went along to see them, we knew we wanted a black female Lab as a great family pet. At the time we knew nothing of KC reg/health tests/proper breeding procedures and so on....now im a pro - for next time! Anyways we fell in love with Lola, and mum and dad (despite of it breeding tests etc) are lovely lovely dogs. So we paid the deposit and left. Then i found these forums. I was simply looking for advice on new puppy and stumbled across health tests - however the breeder said he hadnt tested mum and dad but never had any problems blah blah blah - this obvs counts for nothing.

Anyways.... since then they were going for their first jags on Saturday 13th July. So i txt him to see how she got on.... no reply.... for TWO WHOLE DAYS. Even then was brief. That they got on fine and sent me a photo of her - still beautiful obvs  So i was happy to hear she was ok.

I then called my vets to register her and find out about a VIP scheme they do for £12 a month it covers Lolas annual boosters and worming/fle treatments and so on... i asked about her second jags and was told to find out what brand injection shed already had and to call back to check they done it or else we may need to start again. So i contacted breeder again, no answer, i also had to ask him what food she is getting at the moment so we could have some in for saturday to do gradual change over to Wainwrights. EVENTUALLY after 3 texts he responded with a vague BYB answer "the pup will eat anything dont worry about that. there isnt much info on the vet sheet im afraid so if you or your chosen vet wants to start her jags again that will be up to you. c u saturday". 

We are not put off in the sense to stop us getting Lola infact my mothering instincts just wants to pick her up now. BUT for future i wanted to thank everyone on here for there advice as i know realise i know ALOT and will make a great dog owner and certainly wont be lining the pockets of a BYB again, like alot i assumed it would be an eery dirty house with a hundred dogs in one cage = BYB however i have learnt its not at all.

I can only hope our girl ends up having a healthy life. We will have cover4life petplan insurance btw so ANYTHING she needs (hopefully nothing) she will receive!

I know in future ill b using my story to advise others.

I am not writing this looking to be talked out of getting Lola its a done deal Im simply updating and thanking everyone who gave me excellent advice 

ill keep u posted on lola and as u expect she has MY vets on Tuesday morning for her FIRST jags and worming etc - he may very well have done these jags and so on and so forth however the risk is too great so im getting her done myself for peice of mind. Ill be interested to see what happens on Saturday when we get her and if we are given any vet paperwork, if not i feel for the other 6buyers who perhaps havent done as much research as me and questioned him as much and perhaps think theses pups have been wormed and injected.

Thanks guys <3


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

You may not want to hear this but as you've posted....no way would I give my hard earned money to such a careless and uncaring breeder. He didn't care enough to try and prevent the pups from developing hip dysplasia or eye problems. Nor does he give a damn about what they eat - and as for saying he knows nothing about the vaccs......

The harsh reality is that people like him breed because of people like you - you are well meaning BUT you are encouraging him to breed his bitch again.

The ONLY way to stop breeders like this is to *refuse to buy from them.*

You know what the potential problems are yet you're going ahead with this. I really hope you don't end up regretting it and I wish you all the best. Me? I'd run a mile from this breeder.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I don't even think I can make a positive comment on here 

You admit yourself you are lining the pocket of a BYB who doesn't give a stuff but your still going to go ahead with it? He will keep breeding because people like yourself keep buying from him, I'm just dumb founded as to why you would line the piece of scums pockets?

I am very much a person of what's done is done, but you ignored all advise and just went ahead with this, knowing what you were doing...............................


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

Wow even after all of that you still want to buy her? Please walk away


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Trust me i didnt have many alarm bells before until this incident but unfortunately we already paid for her the thursday before her jags, well almost half, well my partner did. He went down to drop off a blanket for her to get some scents on as we knew this was good settling in idea and i told him while he was out to take out half the money from our account so we dont spend it and he thought i meant to pay for it at the time he was there - this was not the case however he obvs "misheard me" - he tends to do this alot and we had a long talk. Then trust me after the jag and ongoing issue there was a looooong night out debating and conversations and unfortunately THIS time we are proceeding. Again i hope we end up with a happy ending and are one of the lucky ones and im sure we will make it a happy home for her. But as i said in future i am GREATLY appreciative of my, now, knowledge. 

Before i honestly believed, u seen a dog/puppy, liked them, had the time for them and that was it.....


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I would rather lose my money, then fund someone who doesn't care about their dogs....


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## sketch (Sep 19, 2009)

I really hope everything goes to plan for you, I truly do.

If it were me, I would walk away from the money, as you could actually save yourself thousands in vet bills, and also the heartache of losing her prematurely through ill health, that kind of heartache no amount of money can dull I am afraid.

But I do wish you all the very best, Good Luck xxx


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

That would never be an option im afraid - only my OH works so there is NO way we could throw that kind of money away. My intital plan was to take money on Saturday talk things thru and if not happy would leave. However my "lovely" OH decided to try and use his head and just assumed it was the "easier" thing to do.... why? ive no idea! If it was just the deposit i could have possibly lived with that and the disappointment of loosing Lola but not now hes added this money over, its unfortunately a done deal. Either way we are still excited to add to the family.... just next time we shall be far more aware.

Either way shes alive and its the idiot breeders fault not hers. I know not helpful as in order to stop him Lola needs to miss out - and as i say whether its a happy 9 year life or a life with ups and downs shell be well taken care of and in future gumtree will NOT be my go to place for anything pet related. 
Certainly not now i know kennel club and champ dogs etc exist.


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## Ruffers (Oct 27, 2011)

I wouldn't want to start the vaccine process again, could you take her to the original vet for the second injection and then to your chosen vet for a check up?


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Thanks sarah - me too! Ive read some reassuring things and hope ill be one of they stories and i would rather pay for really good insurance and give her a great life regardless than leave her there alone - poor wee mite. Shes certainly happy enough there just not bred from the right situation at all. Thank you though and i will keep you posted. We saved for so long for our dog im sad its being such a confusing/negative story so far, money is to little around here that £250.00 is too much for me to walk away from, in regards to vet bills insurance willl help with that so its not as big a worry as leaving that money in his pocket then hed get another £350.00 from someone else while we are struggling and have no dog.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Ruffers said:


> I wouldn't want to start the vaccine process again, could you take her to the original vet for the second injection and then to your chosen vet for a check up?


Is there any reason why you wouldnt ruffers? im not sure on process of jags? 
I never thought of doing that actually, i will contact him for the details of which vet he took her too and go down that route if possible. Certainly sounds easier, thanks!


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

You could end up "throwing away" a hell of a lot more money on medical or behavioural issues with a dog from such a cruddy breeder  I would run a mile personally rather than fund someone like this.


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## sketch (Sep 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Thanks sarah - me too! Ive read some reassuring things and hope ill be one of they stories and i would rather pay for really good insurance and give her a great life regardless than leave her there alone - poor wee mite. Shes certainly happy enough there just not bred from the right situation at all. Thank you though and i will keep you posted. We saved for so long for our dog im sad its being such a confusing/negative story so far, money is to little around here that £250.00 is too much for me to walk away from, in regards to vet bills insurance willl help with that so its not as big a worry as leaving that money in his pocket then hed get another £350.00 from someone else while we are struggling and have no dog.


Hun, I really wish you all the luck in the world.
Yeah £250 is an awful lot of money, but that can be the cost of one vet trip, and insurance unless you have the right policy can run out....Then you have to pay the bills.
You could have 9 years as you say of health issues, you could also have just a few months too, if this pup dies at a young age, it has been known, sorry to sound so negative, I just would hate for anything awful to happen and you be in a bad situation.
Hinsight is a wonderful things, especially when you say "if only I had done...."
xxx


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Wow - I never normally venture into the breeding section, but decieded to come for a nosey today, and can't believe what I'm reading 

OP - I think the loss of half your purchase price should be the least of your worries. Please, take it from someone who knows.

I have been in your situation - I went ahead and brought home a five week old Westie on the day I first went to view him. My head was screaming at me to do the right thing, but I foolishly went with my heart - which was telling me I was ''saving'' this puppy when really I was just fueling misery for his poor mother, and all future bitches and pups.

We are now ten years down the line. I have a dog that was very nearly put to sleep at two years due to chronic skin diseases - his vet bills for his skin conditions alone ran well into several thousands pounds. He has been blind since four years old due to hereditary cataracts that his parents could have been tested for, should his breeder have given a hoot. And on top of all that - he has serious aggression issues - hates strangers and wouldn't think twice about biting a child if given half a chance.

Do not get me wrong - I love Alfie with all my heart and would not change him for the world - but I bitterly regret getting him from where I did. Alfie is safe, loved and looked after - I often wonder what happened to his littermates though, are they even still all alive? Or were they PTS because of their skin conditions? Did their owners have them put to sleep after deciding it wasn't fair to have a dog go blind so young? Or were they destroyed because they bit someone? Who knows.

By buying Alfie I did nothing other than fuel the fire of this disgusting trade - his breeder saw all the pups sell, had a nice amount of cash in his pocket. More bitches were subjected to a life of misery churning out pups, and more sickly and poorly tempered puppies went onto homes where goodness know what would happen them - because I gave that scumbag my money!

Please, please, please do not go ahead with this  It is NOT too late to pull out.

Yes, you will loose your money - but you may well save yourself thousands in the long run, as well as a lot of heartache, upset and stress. Not only for you - but for future bitches and puppies that YOUR money will fund. Please do the right thing.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> That would never be an option im afraid - only my OH works so there is NO way we could throw that kind of money away. My intital plan was to take money on Saturday talk things thru and if not happy would leave. However my "lovely" OH decided to try and use his head and just assumed it was the "easier" thing to do.... why? ive no idea! If it was just the deposit i could have possibly lived with that and the disappointment of loosing Lola but not now hes added this money over, its unfortunately a done deal. Either way we are still excited to add to the family.... just next time we shall be far more aware.
> 
> Either way shes alive and its the idiot breeders fault not hers. I know not helpful as in order to stop him Lola needs to miss out - and as i say whether its a happy 9 year life or a life with ups and downs shell be well taken care of and in future gumtree will NOT be my go to place for anything pet related.
> Certainly not now i know kennel club and champ dogs etc exist.


Can I ask how much she is? As near me registered health tested labs are £500, and there are loads of them, so they aren't exactly high compared to other breeds, for one with no health tests Im guessing they are about £200? And in the greater scheme of things that isn't a lot of money to lose comparing with what you may face in the future


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## Kc Mac (Jul 26, 2011)

Ruffers said:


> I wouldn't want to start the vaccine process again, could you take her to the original vet for the second injection and then to your chosen vet for a check up?


As above, no way would I do more vaccinations! Either take her back to the 'breeders' vet for the second jab (get the vet practise name/address from him) or find a vets using the same brand/batch vaccine. The vaccination card that he gives you will have a sticker on which will tell the vet the brand/batch of vaccine the pup has been started on to ensure not restarting vaccinations.



sketch said:


> Hun, I really wish you all the luck in the world.
> Yeah £250 is an awful lot of money, but that can be the sot of one vet trip, and imsurance unless you have the right policy can run out....Then you have to pay the bills.
> You could have 9 years as you say of health issues, you could also have just a few months too, it has been known, sorry to sound so negative, I just would hate for anything awful to happen and you be in a bad situation.
> Hinsight is a wonderful things, especially when you say "if only I had done...."
> xxx


All I can add is my old girl came from a similar 'breeder' and yes I love Kc dearly and have never and would never give up on her, however after thousands of pounds on vets bills, the insurance premium went up so much it made her uninsurable as no other company would touch us either . She still costs me more in vet bills than I ever realised a dog could cost 

In short what I paid to purchase her is what last months vet bill was, less £6. That is not unusual, her vet bills still run up to around £80 per month, last month particularly bad. Kc is only 10years old, although my original vet said she would be lucky to make it to 5years old. This was a perfectly 'healthy' pup that passed her 'health check' with flying colours 

With Kc quality of life is everything and whilst she has it, I find the money. Yes I go without so she can have a good quality of life but would never make the same mistake again

All said and done I can see nothing will change your mind on taking the puppy home. I just urge you to get a decent insurance policy for her AND start a savings account for her which needs feeding regularly, because if she is unlucky like my Kc you will need a few grand in the bank to cover what insurance doesn't 

It's a shame because what you are lining the pockets of a BYB with could have gone to support one of the many over flowing rescues who also have pups in, and a lesser adoption fee would have gone to a worthy cause.

However I really do wish you all the luck I the world with Lola


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Sorry to be thick, but before I read the thread any further past the original post, can someone please tell me what "jags" are?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I think there is very little point in saying much, the fact the OP had the pups names as a user name says to me the decision was made before they made their first post.

I stayed out of that because so many people where saying what's done is done..................

We all go on about the health and temperaments of dogs, and most people seem to throw that at the door of the KC whe things go wrong, while I understand for a lot of unhealthy pedigree dogs this can be the case, and they are finally trying to change that, but like I've said before you can offer people all the information in the world, and give them the best advise BUT you can't make them take it, and when people chose to ignore the advise and go with their own selfish feeling of they want a puppy, and they will lose money there it's a sometimes pointless battle to wipe out bad breeding practices and back yard breeders, this piece of scum breeder will be rubbing his hands all the way to the bank, and you can bet next season if all the pups sold easy from this litter, he will be back to back mating.. £500 quid a pup, not health test, no worming no vac's, no real weaning he's not shelling out much is he?

I hope this pup has no health issues I really do, but on the off chance it does, the breeder won't care, you will be stuck with the heart ache of watching your beloved pet suffer ( yes there is no test in the world that can tell you your dog will always be health) and will end up forking out more money, and you've allowed the breeder to have another litter by purchasing this one...

But hey sod it the deed done.........................


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> Sorry to be thick, but before I read the thread any further past the original post, can someone please tell me what "jags" are?


Vaccination


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Meezey said:


> Vaccination


Thank you. I thought maybe so from the context of the wording... but I'd just never heard of vac's being called 'jags'.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

gskinner123 said:


> Sorry to be thick, but before I read the thread any further past the original post, can someone please tell me what "jags" are?





Meezey said:


> Vaccination


What they said, I believe it's a Scottish thing.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> You could end up "throwing away" a hell of a lot more money on medical or behavioural issues with a dog from such a cruddy breeder  I would run a mile personally rather than fund someone like this.


This.

The cheapest dog I ever got was "free" and for good reason, £400 a month in vet bills for multiple health conditions because of poor breeding. I'd sooner risk losing some money than go through the heartache of thousands of pounds in vet bills and watching a dog potentially be ill with genetic problems.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> Thank you. I thought maybe so from the context of the wording... but I'd just never heard of vac's being called 'jags'.


They are often called "jags" here too in Northern Ireland


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

I appreciate all replies - but no i wont change my mind. I was orginally signed up with my local NCDL rescue however they havent had puppies in for well over a year. And they discussed options but majority here wanted adult only homes.

I have spoken to the breeder and got what vet he went to and i have contacted them myself - they have confirmed he was in with the pups and what kind of injections they received and my vet does the same one - hurray one ray of light, so we wont need to start over again! Ive kept my appointment for Tuesday though to get her checked over and make sure she is okay - well as much as they can check for at this moment in time. 

I have to wait until Lola is 8wks before i can do my petplan insurance but that will be getting done asap cover4life with 12000 limit thats renewed every year. just for piece of mind, however i will start putting some aside - good idea, thanks!


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

ps yeah sorry its a scottish think  i just noticed that question! 

And shes £350.00, i cant remember who asked. Sorry reading to quickly.


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## sketch (Sep 19, 2009)

Wishing you all the luck in the world, and hope all goes well with your new addition xxx

PS, I forgot to add, make sure the insurance DO renew each year, and the cover you receive is for life etc,
as the renewal cost might jump much higher each year you have to claim.
I know you said the intial cost was a lot of money for you to save, so you might struggle if you have any issues with the insurance and you have to pay hefty vet/medication bills each month, hope that makes sense.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Good luck - I'm sure as hell you'll need it.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I appreciate all replies - but no i wont change my mind. I was orginally signed up with my local NCDL rescue however they havent had puppies in for well over a year. And they discussed options but majority here wanted adult only homes.
> 
> I have spoken to the breeder and got what vet he went to and i have contacted them myself - they have confirmed he was in with the pups and what kind of injections they received and my vet does the same one - hurray one ray of light, so we wont need to start over again! Ive kept my appointment for Tuesday though to get her checked over and make sure she is okay - well as much as they can check for at this moment in time.
> 
> I have to wait until Lola is 8wks before i can do my petplan insurance but that will be getting done asap cover4life with 12000 limit thats renewed every year. just for piece of mind, however i will start putting some aside - good idea, thanks!


And this is why we will never get rid of BYB's or people who breed purely for money.. 

Sod the welfare of the dogs being used to breed, sod the welfare of the litters these people will churn out season after season, sod the fact they maybe throw pups out with HD or other defects, just the cheers jack I'm alright attitude...


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I appreciate all replies - but no i wont change my mind. I was orginally signed up with my local NCDL rescue however they havent had puppies in for well over a year. And they discussed options but majority here wanted adult only homes.
> 
> I have spoken to the breeder and got what vet he went to and i have contacted them myself - they have confirmed he was in with the pups and what kind of injections they received and my vet does the same one - hurray one ray of light, so we wont need to start over again! Ive kept my appointment for Tuesday though to get her checked over and make sure she is okay - well as much as they can check for at this moment in time.
> 
> I have to wait until Lola is 8wks before i can do my petplan insurance but that will be getting done asap cover4life with 12000 limit thats renewed every year. just for piece of mind, however i will start putting some aside - good idea, thanks!


Just keep an eye on the contact info you have for the breeder, and see if they do it again. If they do, then you can at least prevent others from making the same mistake.

I can't agree with supporting this breeder either, but I wish you all the best and hope your pup does remain as healthy as possible.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I think there is very little point in saying much, the fact the OP had the pups names as a user name says to me the decision was made before they made their first post.
> 
> I stayed out of that because so many people where saying what's done is done..................
> 
> ...


Re read my post please, i NEVER asked for ANY advice, i made the comittment and its done. Im really afraid to say this will always be the case there will ALWAYS be BYB and im just greatful i have learnt what it is and what to avoid for the future and i can help explain to people my scenario - which is what this post was. I didnt even expect a reply....

I grow up with pets and noone of this "testing" was known when my parents got there GSDs or Labs and i just went from there as they were all healthy for good ages, but everyone dies/suffers at some point - its no reason to avoid living. I would much rather my bank balance hurt than me feeling guilty about leaving her alone.

its absoloutely nothing to do with my need for a puppy, like i just wrote i was registered at a rescue for well over a year and to no avail of a suitable dog then we decided to go down the puppy route. We have one rescue within my living area and i dont drive to travel elsewhere unfortunately.

EVERYONE MUST LEARN SOMEHOW.... at one stage in your life each and everyone of you in this forum were newbies and i think its just the way life is...

as its been said i could walk away from Lola and go to a reputable breeder who quizzes me and does all the expensive tests and still end up with a blind or ill dog.... roll of the dice. Ill love her no matter what and so wil my family. If your so against my decison then dont comment :/ i REFUSE to walk away and leave this "breeder" with almost full payment for a dog im not taking, and leave my family short, a house full of puppy stuff my excited son to then wait another 6/7 months while we wait and save again for a dog/puppy.

I really can understand why everyone has there opinions and everyone is wishing me the best but stop trying to talk people out of their OWN life choices - theres a way of sharing experiences and at one time u never u never knew what a BYB was just like me, now u do and now your "helping" me. and i greatly appreciate it and i will aim to do the same one day.

i would also like to add before someone mistakes this post or any of my comments for attitude or selfishness i have not asked for advice i was meerly "thanking" the previous posters i have spoke to..... and still am doing so. My life. My choices. My mistakes - IF lola needs any health care well then as life goes on we will deal with it, shes going to need it regardless of where she ends up and i cant help but feel the other 6 buyers have signed up to 3 dog forums, lab websites, spoke to vets, read comment after comments, researched crate training and so on and so forth..... and they prob havent learnt a lesson and will go back everytime for a BYB puppy. Im defo greatful ive learnt and done my research however its those ones i pity - not lola!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Re read my post please, i NEVER asked for ANY advice, i made the comittment and its done. Im really afraid to say this will always be the case *there will ALWAYS be BYB* and im just greatful i have learnt what it is and what to avoid for the future and i can help explain to people my scenario - which is what this post was. I didnt even expect a reply....
> 
> I grow up with pets and noone of this "testing" was known when my parents got there GSDs or Labs and i just went from there as they were all healthy for good ages, but everyone dies/suffers at some point - its no reason to avoid living. I would much rather my bank balance hurt than me feeling guilty about leaving her alone.
> 
> ...


There will be, as long as people are willing to buy from them. Not a criticism, but if there were no market, there would be no suppliers.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Just keep an eye on the contact info you have for the breeder, and see if they do it again. If they do, then you can at least prevent others from making the same mistake.
> 
> I can't agree with supporting this breeder either, but I wish you all the best and hope your pup does remain as healthy as possible.


I have already saved all gumtree details/txts and his address and name and will defo be keeping an eye out for anything coming from him. I was told this was dogs first litter (whether true or not i obvs wont know unless he posts again). But i will defo be watching, i log in most days not to gumtree and can totally look at posts different than when we started our puppy search.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> There will be, as long as people are willing to buy from them. Not a criticism, but if there were no market, there would be no suppliers.


I defo agree and it certainly wont be me funding, again, towards them. I was hoping to put this post up to encourage anyone who hasnt comitted to take the time to look out the right paths and do their research, so im already eager to share my knowledge and stop it as best i can. I doubt it will every disappear - like most evil in the world but i wont be going ANYWHERE near again.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Re read my post please, i NEVER asked for ANY advice, i made the comittment and its done. Im really afraid to say this will always be the case there will *ALWAYS be BYB* and im just greatful i have learnt what it is and what to avoid for the future and i can help explain to people my scenario - which is what this post was. I didnt even expect a reply....
> 
> I grow up with pets and noone of this "testing" was known when my parents got there GSDs or Labs and i just went from there as they were all healthy for good ages, but everyone dies/suffers at some point - its no reason to avoid living. I would much rather my bank balance hurt than me feeling guilty about leaving her alone.
> 
> ...


Your life you choice your mistake Yup agreed, but pup will pay the price if it goes wrong, as will other pups this guy breeds...

Not trying to talk you out of it as I said your mind was made up before you made you first ever post on here..

No heath test aren't cast iron that the dog will not suffer from ill health, but if your getting a dog with parents with both very low hip scores/elbow scores, the chances are the pup will have low ones too etc, and least you have a clear conscious that you did your best to lessen the risk.

As of the bold statement my point exactly, there will when people chose to ignore all warnings and purchase for them regardless.. Supply and demand..

Not giving advise, it's a public forum so commenting


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## Kc Mac (Jul 26, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I was orginally signed up with my local NCDL rescue however they havent had puppies in for well over a year. And they discussed options but majority here wanted adult only homes.


My nearest Dogs Trust I'm at every Sunday and see first hand the amount of puppies they get in, as well as pregnant bitches. It's heartbreaking.

In fact quite a few of the pups have come along to our training classes!

Also I know of a few other rescues inundated with puppies, but I'm in the south east so nowhere near you 

Thats good news on the vaccinations at least


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Your life you choice your mistake Yup agreed, but pup will pay the price if it goes wrong, as will other pups this guy breeds...
> 
> Not trying to talk you out of it as I said your mind was made up before you made you first ever post on here..
> 
> ...


Again if u read, i made this account before i even knew health testing was an important factor - thats why this name is here. Ive mentioned before that i always hear dont give them the money and walk away etc. BUT whats (honestly not being nit picky) to happen to the puppy, in your mind, if i do and shes not rehomed? isnt that just a cruel as a BYB - IN A SENSE? I certainly dont think leaving her to possibly suffer or be abandoned or PTS is a silver lining - especially when ive done what yous are telling me not to - funded him. Walking away is far worse in my eyes. Id rather do this and take good care of her and LEARN never to do it again than leave her, loose money and some other person get her who isnt going to feed her the best food, b careful to not overexcerise her etc and her be destroyed because they cant be bothered to insure her or something. That thought makes me feel so bad for her, its the breeder and in a sense my mistake not hers.

We all need luck, i pray everyday my son doesnt take ill, me, my family and sometimes we land on our feets sometimes we dont. Humans and animals. Lolas health isnt even the reason we should be debatiing we should be greatful she will be taken care of its the a$$***e "breeders" and i aim to be as against them as you all are now, as ive said!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

If anyone reading this thread is considering paying £350 to a back yard breeder for a puppy - can I suggest trying a rescue first?

They usually charge MUCH less, and most will vaccinate, chip, flea treat, etc. some offer neutering vouchers, give follow-up advice and support - whilst picking up the pieces of indiscriminate breeding and cruelty.

Best of all, apart from contributing to their running costs, you will be helping them to take in some other poor needy animal with a view to finding them a new home too.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Kc Mac said:


> My nearest Dogs Trust I'm at every Sunday and see first hand the amount of puppies they get in, as well as pregnant bitches. It's heartbreaking.
> 
> In fact quite a few of the pups have come along to our training classes!
> 
> ...


We honestly have no puppies in, theres a few breeds im wary off now im a mum and most of ours are Staffordshire terriers, and most dogs need adult only homes or are older and just want peaceful life and i cant offer that with a 3year old  i wish i could take them all home.

My mum got our/her present dog from NCDL and she was a puppy lab/collie mix which is why i immediately signed up there but last young dog they had was over a year and a half ago.

Im surprised we dont have many more rescues as there is just one about 7/8 miles from me.

Yeah at least i dont need to confuse her little body with MORE injections so soon. Relieved at that at least....


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

All about the money really isn't it  Did you see my post about Alfie?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Again if u read, i made this account before i even knew health testing was an important factor - thats why this name is here. Ive mentioned before that i always hear dont give them the money and walk away etc. BUT whats (honestly not being nit picky) to happen to the puppy, in your mind, if i do and shes not rehomed? isnt that just a cruel as a BYB - IN A SENSE? I certainly dont think leaving her to possibly suffer or be abandoned or PTS is a silver lining - especially when ive done what yous are telling me not to - funded him. Walking away is far worse in my eyes. Id rather do this and take good care of her and LEARN never to do it again than leave her, loose money and some other person get her who isnt going to feed her the best food, b careful to not overexcerise her etc and her be destroyed because they cant be bothered to insure her or something. That thought makes me feel so bad for her, its the breeder and in a sense my mistake not hers.
> 
> We all need luck, i pray everyday my son doesnt take ill, me, my family and sometimes we land on our feets sometimes we dont. Humans and animals. Lolas health isnt even the reason we should be debatiing we should be greatful she will be taken care of its the a$$***e "breeders" and i aim to be as against them as you all are now, as ive said!


Sadly you will be among the 1000's who think the same, and feel "sorry" for the pup and take it...

Hence why BYB and so called "opps" litters are so prevalent.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

SixStar said:


> All about the money really isn't it  Did you see my post about Alfie?


As ive said, i leave Lola, and my money what happens to her? For being Dog lovers u dont really seem to grasp she will be blind or sick regardless of me leaving or taking her and id rather be the one to give her a great home than leave her. its HILARIOUS that if i said ok ill leave her yous would all say good choice and well done, when not a care for Lola the innocent one. Im not innocent and the idiotic "breeder" certainly isnt.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

LolaPup2013 said:


> As ive said, i leave Lola, and my money what happens to her? For being Dog lovers u dont really seem to grasp she will be blind or sick regardless of me leaving or taking her and id rather be the one to give her a great home than leave her. its HILARIOUS that if i said ok ill leave her yous would all say good choice and well done, when not a care for Lola the innocent one. Im not innocent and the idiotic "breeder" certainly isnt.


Either she would end up in rescue and probably get a nice home and the person WOULD NOT be giving money to the scum that produced the litter OR some other mug would pay the breeder for her. But at least *you* would have a clear conscience and know YOU hadn't supported this git.

And it's because we love dogs that we WORRY ABOUT LOLA'S MUM. Do you realise, at all, that by buying this pup you encouraged the breeder to use this poor bitch again? I'm willing to bet he won't even let her have a real break between litters.

So don't you start accusing *us* of not being animal lovers! As soon as you first posted about getting a Lab on PF, I was the person asking about health tests - that was OVER A WEEK AGO. You were told about how awful this breeder was yet you chose to go ahead.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> As ive said, i leave Lola, and my money what happens to her? For being Dog lovers u dont really seem to grasp she will be blind or sick regardless of me leaving or taking her and id rather be the one to give her a great home than leave her. its HILARIOUS that if i said ok ill leave her yous would all say good choice and well done, when not a care for Lola the innocent one. Im not innocent and the idiotic "breeder" certainly isnt.


Ok, but take a step back. If you, and everyone like you thought the same, then you're right, there will be no end of byb's.

If you, and everyone like you said hang on, I'm not giving you my money, and I'm going to tell people that what you're doing isn't right, walked away, spent your money with a *good* breeder, do you think there would be any more examples of poor breeders?

The only reason they exist is people are either ignorant, or can't walk away. You've been in both those categories, but I have to say, you may save one pup, but you can't buy them all, and if you could, you'd simply be condemning more pups to the same fate. You either support poor breeding by buying from them, or you don't. What happens to the pups? The best outcome is they are rehomed via a rescue, because then they will have some sort of backup hopefully. The worst thing that can happen, is they're bought by someone else, or abandoned and then hopefully taken on by a rescue. In years gone by, it would have been a bucket of water


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

PS and my last post as my little ones bedtime - but yous all seem FAR more concerned with money than i am. Trying to save me possible thousands and so on and so forth.... Im not concerned with leaving the money behind im concerned with the fact this way this guy will, most likely, get 700 odd pound for Lola as hell have my money and whoever he resells her too. So the bad parts already done.... ive lined his pockets. My first concern is Lola now (apart from my immediate family) not money im forking out for her and insuring her and learnt the lesson im not sitting here saying its right OR ill be doing it again.... pick up my comments however u like. I am happy and excited to be adding to my family and looking forward to the adventure .....

Thanks


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> As ive said, i leave Lola, and my money what happens to her? For being Dog lovers u dont really seem to grasp she will be blind or sick regardless of me leaving or taking her and id rather be the one to give her a great home than leave her. its HILARIOUS that if i said ok ill leave her yous would all say good choice and well done, when not a care for Lola the innocent one. Im not innocent and the idiotic "breeder" certainly isnt.


But you don't understand this is not just about you and Lola........ If people think like you, and keep thinking like you, there will never be an end to BYB's..

Never, that's what's so sad.... Dog being used as breeding machines simply because people are either ignorant or they can't walk away because they feel sorry for the dog, and so it continues...


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Ok, but take a step back. If you, and everyone like you thought the same, then you're right, there will be no end of byb's.
> 
> If you, and everyone like you said hang on, I'm not giving you my money, and I'm going to tell people that what you're doing isn't right, walked away, spent your money with a *good* breeder, do you think there would be any more examples of poor breeders?
> 
> The only reason they exist is people are either ignorant, or can't walk away. You've been in both those categories, but I have to say, you may save one pup, but you can't buy them all, and if you could, you'd simply be condemning more pups to the same fate. You either support poor breeding by buying from them, or you don't. What happens to the pups? The best outcome is they are rehomed via a rescue, because then they will have some sort of backup hopefully. The worst thing that can happen, is they're bought by someone else, or abandoned and then hopefully taken on by a rescue. In years gone by, it would have been a bucket of water


I would buy them all but i agree i clearly cant which is why i wouldnt put myself in a situation to ever be close to one again or get attached or exchange money, i can say everyday i wish id spoke to some people as experienced as youselfs before but i didnt have a clue. I can only hope the other buyers out there even if they take one they learn and do as i aim to do and spread to word for the future...


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> As ive said, i leave Lola, and my money what happens to her? For being Dog lovers u dont really seem to grasp she will be blind or sick regardless of me leaving or taking her and id rather be the one to give her a great home than leave her. its HILARIOUS that if i said ok ill leave her yous would all say good choice and well done, when not a care for Lola the innocent one. Im not innocent and the idiotic "breeder" certainly isnt.


People are telling you to back out because they CARE, care about the dog and the potential damage to your pockets.

In the great scheme of things £350 is a small price to pay for telling someone to SHOVE IT (I don't mean anything derogatory towards the pup) personally I'd take great pleasure in telling someone like that to ''do one'' - I can't work out why on earth you've already paid more than half of the pups purchase price, are you actually mad?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm not trying to persuade you one way or the other, it is your decision after all. But in the same breath, you can't persuade me either that what's done is done. I've seen people walk away from deposits and bad breeders before, and been glad they've done so. I've seen people buy from bad breeders and end up with heart ache, I've even seen breeders fake health tests and people buy in the belief they've supported a good breeder, only to find out sadly they've been misled. You will never persuade me you don't have a choice, but it is I agree, your choice.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> But you don't understand this is not just about you and Lola........ If people think like you, and keep thinking like you, there will never be an end to BYB's..
> 
> Never, that's what's so sad.... Dog being used as breeding machines simply because people are either ignorant or they can't walk away because they feel sorry for the dog, and so it continues...


This i understand, and cant justify myself anymore, nor do i want to, that im not stating what im doing is the right thing for everyone but its what ive chosen to do this time around.

Im not sure of everyones experiences and situations but at one time NOONE here even knew what a BYB was, like me, and possibly maybe just one of yous learnt the hard way like me and now are helping me. You done the same thing, or found out about them the same way or in a negative way, and had to live with it and its only fair i get to do the same if thats my choice.

i cant and never will be able to stop everyone in the world from doing certain things, not even just regarding BYBs about life matters in general - but im proud of my actions and the fact ive put myself out there to learn ALL i can for my future and make sure we know what routes to go down in future. I can only HOPE others learn too.

Also i hope u understand, everyone, i appreciate EVERYONES comments. Im in no way meaning to protray myself as a selfish person, infact i hope the opposite, in a sense, im not a horrible person and dont want to support evil, although i have got myself in a rough situation - lessons learned and this is a great forum with very experienced members, i genuinely look forward to sharing my stories and advice with people....... i hope at least some people understand where im coming from


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> As ive said, i leave Lola, and my money what happens to her? For being Dog lovers u dont really seem to grasp she will be blind or sick regardless of me leaving or taking her and id rather be the one to give her a great home than leave her. its HILARIOUS that if i said ok ill leave her yous would all say good choice and well done, when not a care for Lola the innocent one. Im not innocent and the idiotic "breeder" certainly isnt.


If people do not buy the puppies, the breeder will stop producing them!

There are enough uneducated, bog standard, novice owners taking dogs like this on. We have no hope of ever stopped it if apparently educated owners who have supposedly done their research are still willing to buy dogs like these.

You are clearly a stronger person than I am.

Watching my four year old playful, bouncy, energetic dog turn into a stressed out, quiet and anxious boy - scared of running through fear of bumping into something, darting around in sheer panic because he cannot see - broke my heart. And now, six years down the line, he has adapted and has a full and happy life, but he my god, it hasn't been easy for him.

Similarly, witnessing him growling at himself and going berserk in a corner of the room, whilst biting and tear at his skin, taking out chunks of fur, and leaving huge, bald, weeping, bloodied sores all over his body wasn't pleasant either. Neither was booking the appointment to have him put to sleep at 2 years old - after approx. £7,000 of vet bills we admitted defeat because he had no quality of life. Thank god, we did manage to find a solution in time, but we very nearly didn't.

The stress of managing a dog that WOULD without ANY reason, warning or hesitation, bite with force and intent is unmeasurable.

But - as long as you don't loose a couple of hundred quid eh.

I can hold my hands up and say I was absolutely stupid, and I bitterly regret what I done. I am under no illusion that I was a saint and ''saved'' Alfie - I know full well that *I* am part of the reason that more dogs just like him went on to be born to suffer. Yes, someone else would have taken him if I didn't - and it'd be them that had to live with the guilt.

I just honestly hope you are prepared for the very real possibility of having an aggressive or very sick dog - having insurance is well and good but it does not cover everything, nor save you and your family from any emotional upset.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> *Im not sure of everyones experiences and situations but at one time NOONE here even knew what a BYB was*, like me, and possibly maybe just one of yous learnt the hard way like me and now are helping me. You done the same thing, or found out about them the same way or in a negative way, and had to live with it and its only fair i get to do the same if thats my choice.


Thats a rather big assumption, theres many people on here that have vast experience of all sorts of things, many have had dogs probably 40+ years and BYB even existed then


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

JeanGenie said:


> People are telling you to back out because they CARE, care about the dog and the potential damage to your pockets.
> 
> In the great scheme of things £350 is a small price to pay for telling someone to SHOVE IT (I don't mean anything derogatory towards the pup) personally I'd take great pleasure in telling someone like that to ''do one'' - I can't work out why on earth you've already paid more than half of the pups purchase price, are you actually mad?


In regards to the paying half, this wasnt supposed to be the plan. I can thank my lovely OH for this. We paid a deposit (which had this all i had paid and recent events happened the outcome would have prob been different).

However my OH dropped off a blanket at the breeders as the breeder suggested this was a good idea for the litters smells to get on and things to help her settle in, and while he was out the house i told him to withdraw a certain amount of money for the dog so we dont spend it, and he ASSUMED this obvs meant to pay for him to hand it over there an then....... 

In some senses this "breeder" seems to be doing some good normal things, for example the suggesting we take things up to leave with her, hes got a feeding chart for us to help us with feeding times (which i just found out about tonight when asking about the jags - apparently his answer about the food - at start of my post - he was meerly trying to reassure me that she has a good appetite and not to worry and i can swap her over to ours, right now shes on softened kibble i think he said Burns? not too sure maybe i heard wrong) but he has a diary as well of things shes done and been out in the car and he organised his daughter to have a playdate with her school friends in the garden to all play with puppies for an hour last friday.... yet health testing wise hes failed.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I know you think you are doing the right thing but I really would think about finding another breeder. I went to a JRT litter and had to walk away - it was hard, but now I've got a beautiful pup from a much nicer upbringing and environment. 

I do understand where you are coming from though. I few years ago I would have taken one of the 'bad' JRT pups, and I have to admit, I did think about taking one. I do often think where the little pup I fell in love with is now, but I know I did the correct thing. I would think it would be hell of a lot harder now you've paid. I do understand, and all we can do is offer support. I for one look forward to seeing pictures. 
At least you are learning, and will not make the same mistakes again. 

If you want any help (experience in Labradors) then just drop me a PM.


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## sketch (Sep 19, 2009)

One last comment from me, it is said "You learn from your mistakes" this is very true, but a wise person learns from other peoples mistakes, and this is all we as a group were trying to do for you.
It most definitely isn't about the money, But the emotional rollercoaster you could be buckling yourself into......Lets hope luck is on your side and especially for Lola.

As said previously, all the very best. xxx


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> There will be, as long as people are willing to buy from them. Not a criticism, but if there were no market, there would be no suppliers.


Lets be realistic SL, there ha always been this market and there will always be this market. I'm glad the OP has researched and stated they will be off this market in the future is all. Thinking somehow everyone in the country will care about health tests and you will win everyone over is naive


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

OP - I don't agree with what you've done and agree with the other posters on here. Although one pup will have a great life with a caring owner, what about the 10's of others that may be brought into the world because of the easy sales this chap made this time! I can imagine him laughing down the pub 'hey, they were so keen they paid half the cost up front!' 

But at the end of the day you're going to get this puppy whatever people say. What you are doing isn't wrong, it's just that most of us here see it from one moral side, you see it from the other. Must admit I would have found it very difficult to walk away from my pup when I chose her at 5 weeks and had set my heart on bringing her home.

So stick around and tell us about her when you get her home. I'm sure you'll be here complaining about the toilet training, puppy nipping and asking where the off switch is like all us one time puppy owners at some point.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

sketch said:


> One last comment from me, it is said "You learn from your mistakes" this is very true, *but a wise person learns from other peoples mistakes,* and this is all we as a group were trying to do for you.
> It most definitely isn't about the money, But the emotional rollercoaster you could be buckling yourself into......Lets hope luck is on your side and especially for Lola.
> 
> As said previously, all the very best. xxx


:lol: Who says that? Never heard it in my life, and it seems like a silly thing to say. If everyone was to learn from other peoples mistakes, then none would ever be made by now. As it is people have to learn by experience and yes, mistakes, in order to grow as a person. If you don't make your own choices you never learn or grow.

Best of luck with your pup OP. My pup is from a 'BYB' and is healthy as an ox, touch wood. As I'm aware (now) that this could well NOT be the case, I'll always advise people on getting from good breeders from now on (as I would myself these days), and I feel sure you'll do the same now.


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## sketch (Sep 19, 2009)

Ok I am silly


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> Lets be realistic SL, there ha always been this market and there will always be this market. I'm glad the OP has researched and stated they will be off this market in the future is all. Thinking somehow everyone in the country will care about health tests and you will win everyone over is naive


Yes, but the real reason that this market exists is through ignorance, and the inability to walk away for whatever reason.

I'm not naive at all, the majority of enquiries I get for pups is have you got a chocolate one and how much are they. I spend a lot of time replying and helping people find pups. I've helped people on here find pups, I've helped friends of people on here find pups and make decisions about breeding, and I try not to say *do it this way* but give people information and say, right, make your own decision. I can honestly say though, I can count probably now on my fingers and toes how many people have turned round and said, yes please, I'd love your help and I will listen to you. And I'd hazard a guess that's probably at most 2 or 3 per cent of people who have got in touch with me.

I have however, seen many more cases of people who have bought from places they've either known were less than great, or then gone on to discover are less than great, and had all sorts of problems.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

It's not just about health of the dog either it is about the temperament too...


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

OP you have clearly made up your mind and I respect that your decision is right for you at this time....regardless of the problems this pup MAY (and I say may because who is to say this dog wont go through life with very little or no problems) bring. At least you are realistic and under no illusions that this breeder has a clue. 

I think you are sensible to get very good insurance for this pup ... just as a precaution.

I once bought a pup in similar circumstances and I expected the worst but that puppy grew up to the most wonderful dog and honestly never had to visit the vet for anything other than routine jabs....exams and spay. Obviously we live and learn and hopefully sharing your story will help others.

Best of luck with your new pup


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> Thank you. I thought maybe so from the context of the wording... but I'd just never heard of vac's being called 'jags'.


I thought they meant 'jabs' lol



Sleeping_Lion said:


> There will be, as long as people are willing to buy from them. Not a criticism, but if there were no market, there would be no suppliers.


so true 



Phoolf said:


> :lol: Who says that? Never heard it in my life, and it seems like a silly thing to say. If everyone was to learn from other peoples mistakes, then none would ever be made by now. As it is people have to learn by experience and yes, mistakes, in order to grow as a person. If you don't make your own choices you never learn or grow.
> 
> Best of luck with your pup OP. My pup is from a 'BYB' and is healthy as an ox, touch wood. As I'm aware (now) that this could well NOT be the case, I'll always advise people on getting from good breeders from now on (as I would myself these days), and I feel sure you'll do the same now.


Actually its a very well known saying, and I like it!  Another one is: A Wise Man Learns by the Mistakes of Others, a Fool by His Own. 

I am glad your boy is healthy and happy, but for a lot of pups this isn't the case


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

chichi said:


> OP you have clearly made up your mind and I respect that your decision is right for you at this time....regardless of the problems this pup MAY (and I say may because who is to say this dog wont go through life with very little or no problems) bring. At least you are realistic and under no illusions that this breeder has a clue.
> 
> I think you are sensible to get very good insurance for this pup ... just as a precaution.
> 
> ...


Thank you VERY much. I do not expect people to encourage me but its easy to be overwhelemed by all the experience here. I merely meant this post as a thank you and "im glad i joined this forum" and now 60 replies later i begin to regret it.

I HOPE my stories as happy as yours but if not then its in natures hands now. And i will love and protect her as best i can.

Thanks to you to Phoolf - again not encouraging me but again supporting and accepting and also having the same views i have that BYB will always exsist and we can only hope others, like me, get some knowledge and avoid in future.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Yes, but *the real reason that this market exists is through ignorance,* and the inability to walk away for whatever reason.
> 
> *I'm not naive at all,* the majority of enquiries I get for pups is have you got a chocolate one and how much are they. I spend a lot of time replying and helping people find pups. I've helped people on here find pups, I've helped friends of people on here find pups and make decisions about breeding, and I try not to say *do it this way* but give people information and say, right, make your own decision. I can honestly say though, I can count probably now on my fingers and toes how many people have turned round and said, yes please, I'd love your help and I will listen to you. And I'd hazard a guess that's probably at most 2 or 3 per cent of people who have got in touch with me.
> 
> I have however, seen many more cases of people who have bought from places they've either known were less than great, or then gone on to discover are less than great, and had all sorts of problems.


The majority of this country read The Sun or The Daily Mail...and you don't think you're naive in thinking ignorance will ever be cured? Sorry to be all political about it but pull the other one SL. I'm not saying give up or anything, but there will ALWAYS be ignorant, uncompassionate, silly, whatever you want to call it, people within this world.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

catlove844 said:


> I thought they meant 'jabs' lol
> 
> so true
> 
> ...


I suppose we must all be fools then, because if you can show me the person who has never made a mistake in life I'll show you a liar  Little saying I like to repeat.... 
Tis foolish not to learn from your mistakes, but not foolish to make them in the first place.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> The majority of this country read The Sun or The Daily Mail...and you don't think you're naive in thinking ignorance will ever be cured? Sorry to be all political about it but pull the other one SL. I'm not saying give up or anything, but there will ALWAYS be ignorant, uncompassionate, silly, whatever you want to call it, people within this world.


There will always be those willing to defend the indefensible, as long as people are willing to turn a blind eye and not speak out. You can't change the mind of every single person, but you can educate people, and hopefully over time that will make a difference.

Right, off water plants before a friend turns up with their dog for a mad blast of chocolate Labradors, may post pics if I remember to take a camera!!


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> I suppose we must all be fools then, because if you can show me the person who has never made a mistake in life I'll show you a liar  Little saying I like to repeat....
> Tis foolish not to learn from your mistakes, but not foolish to make them in the first place.


The saying doesn't mean that, it means if you want to do something but see others making mistakes then learn by them and don't do it 

Id rather learn from others then make silly mistakes myself, not foolish, but smart  :ciappa:


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## angelablack12 (Mar 11, 2013)

Just wanted to share my experience as it's very similar to the op. Eventually we have decided to add a new addition and had settled on the breed. We found, what we thought was a good breeder, visited and fell in love with the pup. Last week some alarm bells started ringing and I found out the breeder had another 2 litters of different breed dogs. Then he says the pup needs to go at 6 weeks or won't bond with us. Then he says he no longer vaccinates as he has insider info it's damaging to the pup. I've paid 300 pound deposit, saved over many months, am totally prepared for the arrival but have been reading this thread and have now, as in a few minutes ago, phoned the breeder and said we no longer want the pup as will not be supporting a byb. Am still crying and words cannot describe the disappointment but as a true animal lover I know this has to be the right decision. It is easy to say I agree with ethical breeding and condemn byb but words are easy, the doing part is hard. I'm heartbroken. Just wanted to share.


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## maxandskye (Jan 31, 2009)

Blimey !! what a lot of emotions & quite rightly so too.

After witnessing a close friend with her wee Shih Tzu who was bought from the most vilest BYB I have ever come across in the past 20 yrs of me having dogs, I can honestly say from the bottom of my heart that giving up a puppy at this early stage, not to mention the money would be the best thing for you ( O/P ) & your family. I wont go into the story, but let me tell you there has been endless tears, so a couple of hundred pounds now is a drop in the Ocean of what could be ahead .. then think about your family.

I wish Lola, yourself and your family the very best for the future.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

angelablack12 said:


> Just wanted to share my experience as it's very similar to the op. Eventually we have decided to add a new addition and had settled on the breed. We found, what we thought was a good breeder, visited and fell in love with the pup. Last week some alarm bells started ringing and I found out the breeder had another 2 litters of different breed dogs. Then he says the pup needs to go at 6 weeks or won't bond with us. Then he says he no longer vaccinates as he has insider info it's damaging to the pup. I've paid 300 pound deposit, saved over many months, am totally prepared for the arrival but have been reading this thread and have now, as in a few minutes ago, phoned the breeder and said we no longer want the pup as will not be supporting a byb. Am still crying and words cannot describe the disappointment but as a true animal lover I know this has to be the right decision. It is easy to say I agree with ethical breeding and condemn byb but words are easy, the doing part is hard. I'm heartbroken. Just wanted to share.


Oh wow, sounds awful, £300 deposit is a lot of money for a pup, Poor pups  I wish you the best, big hugs coming from this end and I hope you get your perfect pup in the future x


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## maxandskye (Jan 31, 2009)

angelablack12 said:


> Just wanted to share my experience as it's very similar to the op. Eventually we have decided to add a new addition and had settled on the breed. We found, what we thought was a good breeder, visited and fell in love with the pup. Last week some alarm bells started ringing and I found out the breeder had another 2 litters of different breed dogs. Then he says the pup needs to go at 6 weeks or won't bond with us. Then he says he no longer vaccinates as he has insider info it's damaging to the pup. I've paid 300 pound deposit, saved over many months, am totally prepared for the arrival but have been reading this thread and have now, as in a few minutes ago, phoned the breeder and said we no longer want the pup as will not be supporting a byb. Am still crying and words cannot describe the disappointment but as a true animal lover I know this has to be the right decision. It is easy to say I agree with ethical breeding and condemn byb but words are easy, the doing part is hard. I'm heartbroken. Just wanted to share.


Well done, I applaud you for being so brave. This is best decision IMHO.

In time you will look back on this day as hard as it may sound now, knowing that you did the right thing.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Thanks sarah - me too! Ive read some reassuring things and hope ill be one of they stories and i would rather pay for really good insurance and give her a great life regardless than leave her there alone - poor wee mite. Shes certainly happy enough there just not bred from the right situation at all. Thank you though and i will keep you posted. We saved for so long for our dog im sad its being such a confusing/negative story so far, money is to little around here that £250.00 is too much for me to walk away from, in regards to vet bills insurance willl help with that so its not as big a worry as leaving that money in his pocket then hed get another £350.00 from someone else while we are struggling and have no dog.


I can see your argument. He would end up getting paid almost double, and you would miss out on your pup.

While there is a greater likelihood of problems with a puppy from a breeder like this, it isn't definite - you and she may be lucky, and have no problems. I hope that this is how it works out for you.

I have to admit that I've bought a pup from pity, too. She wasn't long-lived (9 - but she died in an accident, not because of any heath deficiencies), and she had a number of health problems, but I loved her to bits and still do. I wouldn't have missed a minute of it.

I wouldn't do it again, but what is done is done - it is a lesson learned, and she brought so much joy to our lives.

Best of everything to you both and your new little girl.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

angelablack12 said:


> Just wanted to share my experience as it's very similar to the op. Eventually we have decided to add a new addition and had settled on the breed. We found, what we thought was a good breeder, visited and fell in love with the pup. Last week some alarm bells started ringing and I found out the breeder had another 2 litters of different breed dogs. Then he says the pup needs to go at 6 weeks or won't bond with us. Then he says he no longer vaccinates as he has insider info it's damaging to the pup. I've paid 300 pound deposit, saved over many months, am totally prepared for the arrival but have been reading this thread and have now, as in a few minutes ago, phoned the breeder and said we no longer want the pup as will not be supporting a byb. Am still crying and words cannot describe the disappointment but as a true animal lover I know this has to be the right decision. It is easy to say I agree with ethical breeding and condemn byb but words are easy, the doing part is hard. I'm heartbroken. Just wanted to share.


I'm really sorry you had to find out the hard way just how ruthless some breeders can be. If I can help in any way, if it's a Labrador or flatcoat breeder, please let me know and I'll try and put you in touch with the right sort of people. Or at least, have a look at breed clubs, and try to get some good contacts from them. xx


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> Sorry to be thick, but before I read the thread any further past the original post, can someone please tell me what "jags" are?


I think 'jabs' - inoculations.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

angelablack12 said:


> Just wanted to share my experience as it's very similar to the op. Eventually we have decided to add a new addition and had settled on the breed. We found, what we thought was a good breeder, visited and fell in love with the pup. Last week some alarm bells started ringing and I found out the breeder had another 2 litters of different breed dogs. Then he says the pup needs to go at 6 weeks or won't bond with us. Then he says he no longer vaccinates as he has insider info it's damaging to the pup. I've paid 300 pound deposit, saved over many months, am totally prepared for the arrival but have been reading this thread and have now, as in a few minutes ago, phoned the breeder and said we no longer want the pup as will not be supporting a byb. Am still crying and words cannot describe the disappointment but as a true animal lover I know this has to be the right decision. It is easy to say I agree with ethical breeding and condemn byb but words are easy, the doing part is hard. I'm heartbroken. Just wanted to share.


How very brave and heart breaking for you, it is the right thing to do..

When the time is right for you to look for another puppy, make sure to come ask, because there are people on here who can point you in the right direction of ethical breeders..


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

angelablack12 said:


> Just wanted to share my experience as it's very similar to the op. Eventually we have decided to add a new addition and had settled on the breed. We found, what we thought was a good breeder, visited and fell in love with the pup. Last week some alarm bells started ringing and I found out the breeder had another 2 litters of different breed dogs. Then he says the pup needs to go at 6 weeks or won't bond with us. Then he says he no longer vaccinates as he has insider info it's damaging to the pup. I've paid 300 pound deposit, saved over many months, am totally prepared for the arrival but have been reading this thread and have now, as in a few minutes ago, phoned the breeder and said we no longer want the pup as will not be supporting a byb. Am still crying and words cannot describe the disappointment but as a true animal lover I know this has to be the right decision. It is easy to say I agree with ethical breeding and condemn byb but words are easy, the doing part is hard. I'm heartbroken. Just wanted to share.


I can understand how heartbroken you must be, but huge congratulations for having the courage and decency doing the right thing.

Good things come to those who wait. x


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## angelablack12 (Mar 11, 2013)

Thanks everyone. Back to the drawing board and saving hard again. Will get it right this time and know we have made the right decision ultimately by not supporting a byb. Thanks again everyone.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

angelablack12 said:


> Thanks everyone. Back to the drawing board and saving hard again. Will get it right this time and know we have made the right decision ultimately by not supporting a byb. Thanks again everyone.


What breed are you looking for, I'm sure people on here can help you?


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Can I say that while I agree with everything that has been said on this thread about the wisdom (or otherwise) of buying from a BYB, Lola's mammy has made that commitment now. It is up to us to give her the support and encouragement she will need as a new dog owner - as we all do, no matter how healthy our puppies are.

I have been there myself - in retrospect I was foolish, but I had a wonderful (though flawed) little dog. I have also got a current dog who was a rescue from a puppy dealer - and she hasn't had a single health problem, though she was terribly nervous when we first got her seven years ago (she's not now).

Sniping at the OP won't help matters. We may not agree with what she has done, but she is prepared for any problems she may encounter and has taken out a good insurance policy - in every way that she can she is taking full responsibility for the health of her puppy.

Let us give her and Lola all the support and friendship they need.

Good luck to you girl - keep in touch!:yesnod:


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

lostbear said:


> Lola's mammy has made that commitment now.


That is the thing though - she hasn't.

If she had the dog - fair enough. What's done is done, but she doesn't have the puppy yet. She can back out, but won't.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lostbear said:


> Can I say that while I agree with everything that has been said on this thread about the wisdom (or otherwise) of buying from a BYB, Lola's mammy has made that commitment now. It is up to us to give her the support and encouragement she will need as a new dog owner - as we all do, no matter how healthy our puppies are.
> 
> I have been there myself - in retrospect I was foolish, but I had a wonderful (though flawed) little dog. I have also got a current dog who was a rescue from a puppy dealer - and she hasn't had a single health problem, though she was terribly nervous when we first got her seven years ago (she's not now).
> 
> ...


How is she prepared?? Insurance won't help the suffering of the family and the dog if anything goes wrong be it health or temperament ? Lets be honest here have a look at the training and behavior section and take a look at the threads were the people are also prepared, the "breeder" is not going to care if they have problems, I doubt he will help or guide them.

It's great you've had no health issues with your dog, I'm really happy, although you say she is flawed?. If I was getting a breed who I knew suffered from certain health problems and it was prevalent in the breed, I'd want to know I'd done all I could to make sure my pup didn't have to suffer from it..... No health test are not the be all and end all but if you have dogs with seriously high hip scores there is a higher chance of your pup suffering the same fate, if you have got dogs with low hip scores chance the pup will have low hip scores. True the sky might fall in tomorrow, and I might get hit by a bus, but I'm sure as hell not going to go play in the bus lane and hope I don't get hit.....

I'm an experienced Rottweiler owner, and is the OH but I will and do STILL go back to my breeder and ask about Cian if I have too, because she knows his parents inside out, she'll be able to tell me, if the other pups or any pup she has bred has the same issues etc..


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Blinking cheek for you to accuse us of only 'caring about the money' - we're trying to help LOLA'S MUM. You know - the female Lab that produced Lola 

I guess you don't care about her at all.

I guess you don't care that by buying this pup, her mum will no doubt be forced to carry another litter, probably far sooner than is healthy for her 

Get your pup, but don't sit there and accuse US of being the uncaring ones :mad2::mad2:


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

I gave up reading a some point  but you mention insurnace A LOT as your back up, just so you know year on year my dog insurance has gone up 50% after year one, 120% after year 2 and 80% after year 3 and i've never made a claim  

So what might seem like affordable insurance now at £10-20 a month soon becomes £40/60 after only 3 years and as i said that is with NO claims. 

If you can't afford to walk away from £200 can you really afford a dog


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Blinking cheek for you to accuse us of only 'caring about the money' - we're trying to help LOLA'S MUM. You know - the female Lab that produced Lola
> 
> I guess you don't care about her at all.
> 
> ...


I wasnt even referring to you, someone stated i only cared about the money however IT seems everyone here keeps saying "save your self money" "save yourself possible future thousands on vet bills" - therefor they are putting the money at the top of the list.

Its never been about money for me or the family, except we dont have much - unfortunately!

I have absolutely no doubt IF i walk away then if this man breeds her mum again, which i have no worries he will to be honest, being the one whose dealt with him, him re-breeding hasnt ever been a worry for me. IMO the only upset i have, now, with him is his irresponsible breeding/health tests not been done. The house and living environment is no where near neglectful - and i choose to believe what he says. He has not lied to me yet, may not have done things to the prime example of breeding but he hasnt attempted to lead me down a path or excuse himself.

Not ideal situation and as ive said A HUNDRED times its a learning example and ive learnt and used this forum to express my gratitude for everyone.

Whats even more annoying is i started this thread in a moment of anger when i wasnt happy with his reply to my text, which is now unneccessary as he has had a detailed convo with me regarding lolas food and i wasnt reassured with his Injections answer and it seemed vague - however he has explained what medicine she got and i caled the vet myself this evening and they have also claified he took them in - therefor these comments are referring to my original post - which is invalid now. As i have a full detailed plan of when she eats and what she eats an hes giving me enough food for a week to change her over to Wainwrights.....


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Pointermum said:


> I gave up reading a some point  but you mention insurnace A LOT as your back up, just so you know year on year my dog insurance has gone up 50% after year one, 120% after year 2 and 80% after year 3 and i've never made a claim
> 
> So what might seem like affordable insurance now at £10-20 a month soon becomes £40/60 after only 3 years and as i said that is with NO claims.
> 
> If you can't afford to walk away from £200 can you really afford a dog


I'd say you'd be paying the guts for £30/40 with Petplan on first year for the 4life cover Ultimate, I pay £70 for Cian and that's with Multi pet discount


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Pointermum said:


> I gave up reading a some point  but you mention insurnace A LOT as your back up, just so you know year on year my dog insurance has gone up 50% after year one, 120% after year 2 and 80% after year 3 and i've never made a claim
> 
> So what might seem like affordable insurance now at £10-20 a month soon becomes £40/60 after only 3 years and as i said that is with NO claims.
> 
> If you can't afford to walk away from £200 can you really afford a dog


FYI my insurance will be 35 per month and 12 per month to the vets for a VIP scheme to cover her boosters.

I CAN afford the dog i cannot afford to resave up every month at this time of year, my partner has broken hand and therefor isnt at work, my sons birthday is coming up and my father has possible Leukemia therefor we may need to travel back and forward to their house/hospital (well i will as my OH will be here but i rely on public transport so may need to travel alot) so spare money we have now will go else where.... funnily enough forking out an extra 500+ pound on a dog when ive paid almost 300 already for one i wouldnt get back doesnt come before my dad whose seriously ill OR will i force my OH to go back to his heavy lifting warehouse job with metal pins sticking out his hand? I REALLY didnt want to go into personal reasons and yet i have to defend myself, id be just as well posting

"got a dug from a backyard breeder, it was awesome, no question asked, cheaper than other places, ready early, yayy a cute pup to walk around with, think ill give it a year then go back there OR wait until shes older and breed her myself for money" BUT im not im holding my hands up and admitting its a bad route WITH risks but my heads so cluttered i refuse to double think every decison i make in my life........


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> FYI my insurance will be 35 per month and 12 per month to the vets for a VIP scheme to cover her boosters.


Your insurance will go up every year - by a very substantial amount if you claim, and still a considerable amount if not.

Excesses are usually around £70 - £100, this is an amount you pay on each visit that cannot be claimed back - most minor visits will be under this amount, and you could be paying several a month if you have an unhealthy puppy.

The vast majority of out of hours vets charge a high fee for you to even walk in the door and will NOT claim this from insurance companies, they expect it upfront - ours charges £160. House calls are even higher.

Spaying isn't covered by any insurance.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

SixStar said:


> Your insurance will go up every year - by a very substantial amount if you claim, and still a considerable amount if not.
> 
> Excesses are usually around £70 - £100, this is an amount you pay on each visit that cannot be claimed back - most minor visits will be under this amount, and you could be paying several a month if you have an unhealthy puppy.
> 
> ...


Just had 4 month old pup in as we thought he was allergic to grass, GA, skin scraps, steroids and eardrops, £190 lighter paid £90 Excess.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

SixStar said:


> Your insurance will go up every year - by a very substantial amount if you claim, and still a considerable amount if not.
> 
> Excesses are usually around £70 - £100, this is an amount you pay on each visit that cannot be claimed back - most minor visits will be under this amount, and you could be paying several a month if you have an unhealthy puppy.
> 
> ...


Since im the devil dog owner i might not renew and jst let her suffer since im to poor for a dog and so neglectful :lol:


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

LolaPup2013 said:


> FYI my insurance will be 35 per month and 12 per month to the vets for a VIP scheme to cover her boosters.
> 
> I CAN afford the dog i cannot afford to resave up every month at this time of year, my partner has broken hand and therefor isnt at work, my sons birthday is coming up and my father has possible Leukemia therefor we may need to travel back and forward to their house/hospital (well i will as my OH will be here but i rely on public transport so may need to travel alot) so spare money we have now will go else where.... funnily enough forking out an extra 500+ pound on a dog when ive paid almost 300 already for one i wouldnt get back doesnt come before my dad whose seriously ill OR will i force my OH to go back to his heavy lifting warehouse job with metal pins sticking out his hand? I REALLY didnt want to go into personal reasons and yet i have to defend myself, id be just as well posting
> 
> "got a dug from a backyard breeder, it was awesome, no question asked, cheaper than other places, ready early, yayy a cute pup to walk around with, think ill give it a year then go back there OR wait until shes older and breed her myself for money" BUT im not im holding my hands up and admitting its a bad route WITH risks but my heads so cluttered i refuse to double think every decison i make in my life........


Sounds like a PERFECT time to buy a puppy  BYB or not.

Be prepared for that insurance to be £50 next year, £70 the next and so on .


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Pointermum said:


> Sounds like a PERFECT time to buy a puppy  BYB or not.


Yup! You dont need to walk puppies do you...........?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Since im the devil dog owner i might not renew and jst let her suffer since im to poor for a dog and so neglectful :lol:


You just seem to think everything will be ok because you have insurance  I am just pointing out there are LOTS of veterinary expenses that it will be useless against, and will see you having to fork out large sums of money. Thought it was worth mentioning since you said you cannot afford to loose the money you have already part-paid for the puppy.

And for what it's worth - I have five dogs, none of them are insured. I'm a devil dog owner too :dita:


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Since im the devil dog owner i might not renew and jst let her suffer since im to poor for a dog and so neglectful :lol:


Whilst you may find it funny now, you may not find it funny when you find she may inherit conditions rife in the breed, conditions you may find, she may not be covered for next time you happen to renew.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I don't insure my dogs, having four of them, it works out cheaper for me to pay as I go. 

I have to say, the going price for a nicely bred Labrador from health tested parents is not £350, it's more like £450-£650 generally speaking, depending on where you are in the country. But then you do get what you pay for, and I hope it doesn't come back to haunt you.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

SixStar said:


> You just seem to think everything will be ok because you have insurance  I am just pointing out there are LOTS of veterinary expenses that it will be useless against, and will see you having to fork out large sums of money. Thought it was worth mentioning since you said you cannot afford to loose the money you have already part-paid for the puppy.
> 
> And for what it's worth - I have five dogs, none of them are insured. I'm a devil dog owner too :dita:


I dont think it will be okay because of that AT ALL. I am merely answering people who said to make sure i get good insurance etc. I could get a perfect dog and pay out all those things anyways.... where she comes from may not help the situation it wont prevent it... We have thought about the outgoings and if more pop up we will need to deal with it then...

   Ohhhh you dare devil you!


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I wasnt even referring to you, someone stated i only cared about the money however IT seems everyone here keeps saying "save your self money" "save yourself possible future thousands on vet bills" - therefor they are putting the money at the top of the list.
> 
> Its never been about money for me or the family, except we dont have much - unfortunately!
> 
> ...


So the puppy is ill?? Why does she have medicine? This wont be covered by insurance as its previous medical issues!

Can I ask why you leave ... at the end of a sentences?

How on earth do you know that he wont breed her again? You don't know if she has been bred before do you? He could be saying she is only x old but be double that age and having 2 litters a year for all you know getting 350 per pup x 8-10 x 2 per year! No wonder BYB do this especially as they do none of it properly, people always willing to pay it and learn later 



LolaPup2013 said:


> Since im the devil dog owner i might not renew and jst let her suffer since im to poor for a dog and so neglectful :lol:


I don't think its funny 



LolaPup2013 said:


> Yup! You dont need to walk puppies do you...........?


Im starting to think this maybe a troll, trolls often put ......... at the end of sentences to goad people into replying and starting arguments 



Sleeping_Lion said:


> I don't insure my dogs, having four of them, it works out cheaper for me to pay as I go.
> 
> I have to say, the going price for a nicely bred Labrador from health tested parents is not £350, it's more like £450-£650 generally speaking, depending on where you are in the country. But then you do get what you pay for, and I hope it doesn't come back to haunt you.


Its not really that much more £350 or another £100 for a quality dog, they are around £500 near me and Im next to London!



Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> It's really not a laughing matter. You seem to have a lot of confidence in this breeder not to let his bitch get pregnant again - it's strange, given that he couldn't be trusted to do EVEN the most basic health tests.
> 
> Laugh away. Don't come back expecting sympathy if heaven forfend your pup develops serious problems. You won't get any from me - your pup will get plenty of sympathy from me though.


That's what I thought


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Since im the devil dog owner i might not renew and jst let her suffer since im to poor for a dog and so neglectful :lol:


It's really not a laughing matter. You seem to have a lot of confidence in this breeder not to let his bitch get pregnant again - it's strange, given that he couldn't be trusted to do EVEN the most basic health tests.

Laugh away. Don't come back expecting sympathy if heaven forfend your pup develops serious problems. You won't get any from me - your pup will get plenty of sympathy from me though.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I don't insure my dogs, having four of them, it works out cheaper for me to pay as I go.
> 
> I have to say, the going price for a nicely bred Labrador from health tested parents is not £350, it's more like £450-£650 generally speaking, depending on where you are in the country. But then you do get what you pay for, and I hope it doesn't come back to haunt you.


 ^^ Who asked about the going rate? Im more than aware of how dear they can go for..... :rolleyes5:

Jesus yous are all negative so and so's! "haunt you" "good luck youll need it" holeeeey moley!

Lets all simply live and let live eh


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> ^^ Who asked about the going rate? Im more than aware of how dear they can go for..... :rolleyes5:
> 
> Jesus yous are all negative so and so's! "haunt you" "good luck youll need it" holeeeey moley!
> 
> Lets all simply live and let live eh


I only posted facts, as I said, I've not posted one way or the other, the decision is yours. But holeeeey moley, I've seen so many of these threads before, and seen the outcome.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> ^^ Who asked about the going rate? Im more than aware of how dear they can go for..... :rolleyes5:
> 
> Jesus yous are all negative so and so's! "haunt you" "good luck youll need it" holeeeey moley!
> 
> Lets all simply live and let live eh


Trust me, you'd feel the same if you have gone through what I've been through with Alfie.

Infact - you might find out for yourself just how it feels 

Don't get me wrong, I sincerely hope you don't - I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, and no dog deserves the troubles Alfie has had.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

LolaPup2013 said:


> ^^ Who asked about the going rate? Im more than aware of how dear they can go for..... :rolleyes5:
> 
> Jesus yous are all negative so and so's! "haunt you" "good luck youll need it" holeeeey moley!
> 
> *Lets all simply live and let live eh *


Er, you started the thread - we'll all respond as we see fit.

My insurance for my own Lab is now £52 per month.

I go without a car so that I can afford it, and also decent food for him.

If you don't want candid responses, don't start a thread detailing again how essentially ghastly this breeder is!


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> It's really not a laughing matter. You seem to have a lot of confidence in this breeder not to let his bitch get pregnant again - it's strange, given that he couldn't be trusted to do EVEN the most basic health tests.
> 
> Laugh away. Don't come back expecting sympathy if heaven forfend your pup develops serious problems. You won't get any from me - your pup will get plenty of sympathy from me though.


That was actually a joke post but hey ho over your head i guess....

I dont plan on ever knowing if he breeds her again, how would i ever find out. I would like to hope he would stick to his word but hey ho i guess im old fashioned in that sense!

Come back for sympathy..... from this forum - you must be joking 

My pup will get sympathy? The same pup youve spent ur precious time trying to make me leave for god knows what to happen to her..... irony isnt lost!

Night night guys  thanks for ur HELPFUL posts/ repeats of what youve already said..... 
Mind me never to post a thread thanking anyone again :S

Take Care........


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> It's really not a laughing matter. You seem to have a lot of confidence in this breeder not to let his bitch get pregnant again - it's strange, given that he couldn't be trusted to do EVEN the most basic health tests.
> 
> Laugh away. Don't come back expecting sympathy if heaven forfend your pup develops serious problems. You won't get any from me - your pup will get plenty of sympathy from me though.


no reply to my posts ... ?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

My favourite saying springs to mind

You can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think

Not meant in the literal sense, but metaphorically speaking.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Er, you started the thread - we'll all respond as we see fit.
> 
> My insurance for my own Lab is now £52 per month.
> 
> ...


When did i say he was ghastly?

I have retracted the reason for this original tread, hes stuck to his word.
Fed her good quality food. Kept a food chart for us. Arranged socialising things for the dogs. Encouraged his kids friends to come round as 4 of the buyers have kids, socialised with other healthy dogs, encouraged us to leave some covers for scent marking...... He has by no means attempted to delude me or pretend to be a prime example of a breeder and i appreciate his honesty. Obvs now i know what SHOULD have been done i can advise him as i did about hipscores etc and not go down this road again......


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> That was actually a joke post but hey ho over your head i guess....
> 
> I dont plan on ever knowing if he breeds her again, how would i ever find out. I would like to hope he would stick to his word but hey ho i guess im old fashioned in that sense!
> 
> ...


You really are not getting it are you? Live and let live? Well yes I suppose that's fine where people are concerned, but this is about people using animals to make money with no care for the welfare of them, you are so blind to the fact because you WANT this puppy and that's all this is about is you wanting it, because in the first instance £300 is a HUGE amount of money for you that you've saved up, then your skint because your OH can't work and your FIL is ill, then you are suddenly going to find money for any treatment needed.

It's all fine to live and let live, but not were animals are used to make money... I'll never turn a blind eye to BYB's not ever.. but for you it's about YOUR cute puppy, and getting YOUR puppy, irrespective of anything...


----------



## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I wasnt even referring to you, someone stated i only cared about the money however IT seems everyone here keeps saying "save your self money" "save yourself possible future thousands on vet bills" - therefor they are putting the money at the top of the list.
> 
> Its never been about money for me or the family, except we dont have much - unfortunately!
> 
> ...


So the puppy is ill?? Why does she have medicine? This wont be covered by insurance as its previous medical issues!

Can I ask why you leave ... at the end of a sentences?

How on earth do you know that he wont breed her again? You don't know if she has been bred before do you? He could be saying she is only x old but be double that age and having 2 litters a year for all you know getting 350 per pup x 8-10 x 2 per year! No wonder BYB do this especially as they do none of it properly, people always willing to pay it and learn later 



LolaPup2013 said:


> Yup! You dont need to walk puppies do you...........?


Im starting to think this maybe a troll, trolls often put ......... at the end of sentences to goad people into replying and starting arguments 

Still no answer to my questions


----------



## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

catlove844 said:


> So the puppy is ill?? Why does she have medicine? This wont be covered by insurance as its previous medical issues!
> 
> Can I ask why you leave ... at the end of a sentences?
> 
> ...


I start arguements, isnt it u who just directed i didnt answer ur post?

AWWWW full stops are forbidden now on petforums.co.uk are they! Jeeez im not a "VIP" member so i wouldnt know.

Shes not ill i was refering to the medicine as in type/brand of injection she recieved so i can tell my chosen vet. Not as in actual treatment medicine, wrong word chosen as i used jag before and confused people.

MY GOOD GOD you people just dont let up, what more can i say?

i would happily pay 500 for a pedigree puppy but i would pay that and have left £250 with someone for nothing, who would hand out 250 for f**k all :bored:

If you would youve more money than sense.....

I accept any posts from anyone yet youve painted ur own picture in ur head and refusing to accept any rational comments i make. <--- one full stop:dita:


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> When did i say he was ghastly?
> 
> I have retracted the reason for this original tread, hes stuck to his word.
> Fed her good quality food. Kept a food chart for us. Arranged socialising things for the dogs. Encouraged his kids friends to come round as 4 of the buyers have kids, socialised with other healthy dogs, encouraged us to leave some covers for scent marking...... He has by no means attempted to delude me or pretend to be a prime example of a breeder and i appreciate his honesty. Obvs now i know what SHOULD have been done i can advise him as i did about hipscores etc and not go down this road again......


WOW and you have only found this out what 3 days from bring her home, pull the other one it's plays jungle bells...... Opps sorry think it's a week before you bring her home is it Tuesday?


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> WOW and you have only found this out what 3 days from bring her home, pull the other one it's plays jungle bells......


I found that out like 2 days after paying the deposit - see other posts. JESUS CHRIST! Will u ever actually read a full thread before getting ur comments in?


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## maxandskye (Jan 31, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Since im the devil dog owner i might not renew and jst let her suffer since im to poor for a dog and so neglectful :lol:


Hey hen, take a breathe & bow out, no one is calling you the devil dog owner.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Well this thread has certainly started to get nasty... (ooh look, elipses)

My pet insurance hasn't risen after 18 months...just sayin


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I found that out like 2 days after paying the deposit - see other posts. JESUS CHRIST! Will u ever actually read a full thread before getting ur comments in?


I did, you said today he told you about the food and the children, and the car drives etc..


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Hen, the long and short of it is, you have a choice, and you're making a choice that many on here disagree with for the reasons they've stated. If that's your choice, then that's it, don't take umbridge with others who would make a different choice. You can't really defend supporting a [email protected] breeder, if that's what you're going to go with, for whatever reason, then expect a bit of, 'didn't you know better'.


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Hen, the long and short of it is, you have a choice, and you're making a choice that many on here disagree with for the reasons they've stated. If that's your choice, then that's it, don't take umbridge with others who would make a different choice. You can't really defend supporting a [email protected] breeder, if that's what you're going to go with, for whatever reason, *then expect a bit of, 'didn't you know better'.*


Can I ask at what point the OP has expressed anything resembling that sentiment?


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

maxandskye said:


> Hey hen, take a breathe & bow out, no one is calling you the devil dog owner.


Umm aren't I the devil dog owner on this thread?


----------



## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> You really are not getting it are you? Live and let live? Well yes I suppose that's fine where people are concerned, but this is about people using animals to make money with no care for the welfare of them, you are so blind to the fact because you WANT this puppy and that's all this is about is you wanting it, because in the first instance £300 is a HUGE amount of money for you that you've saved up, then your skint because your OH can't work and your FIL is ill, then you are suddenly going to find money for any treatment needed.
> 
> It's all fine to live and let live, but not were animals are used to make money... I'll never turn a blind eye to BYB's not ever.. but for you it's about YOUR cute puppy, and getting YOUR puppy, irrespective of anything...


NO YOUR NOT GETTING IT IF THE DOG IS GOING TO BE BLIND, SHES GOING TO BE BLIND. WHETHER IN MY HOUSE LOVED OR A RESCUE CENTRE!?!?!
WHY DONT YOU ALL GO ON A PARADE OR SOMETHING TO FIGHT THIS CAUSE INSTEAD OF SITTING ON A WEBSITE SENDING YOUR 2 CENTS VIA A CHATROOM?

HAVE I NOT SAID THANK YOU FOR MY KNOWLEDGE NOW OF BYBs AND THAT ITS A ROUTE I WOULD NOT TAKE NOW, NOTHING TO DO WITH ME AND MY PUPPY OR IRRESPECTIVE OF "ANYTHING".

NO MATTER WHATS SAID YOULL DISAGREE UNTIL I SAY ILL NOT TAKE HER HOME AND SO ON, SO WHY DONT U ALL GO TAKE UR PERFECTLY BRED DOGS FOR WALKS AND GO TO BED AND SLEEP EASY KNOWING YOUVE NEVER MADE A MISTAKE IN UR ENTIRE LIFE OR THAT YOUVE BELITTLED A NEW MEMBER OF A FORUM WHO HAS ALWAYS REACHED OUT FOR ADVICE AND KNOWLEDGE.

SWEET DREAMS LOVELIES :001_wub:


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I start arguements, isnt it u who just directed i didnt answer ur post?
> 
> AWWWW full stops are forbidden now on petforums.co.uk are they! Jeeez im not a "VIP" member so i wouldnt know.
> 
> ...





LolaPup2013 said:


> NO YOUR NOT GETTING IT IF THE DOG IS GOING TO BE BLIND, SHES GOING TO BE BLIND. WHETHER IN MY HOUSE LOVED OR A RESCUE CENTRE!?!?!
> WHY DONT YOU ALL GO ON A PARADE OR SOMETHING TO FIGHT THIS CAUSE INSTEAD OF SITTING ON A WEBSITE SENDING YOUR 2 CENTS VIA A CHATROOM?
> 
> HAVE I NOT SAID THANK YOU FOR MY KNOWLEDGE NOW OF BYBs AND THAT ITS A ROUTE I WOULD NOT TAKE NOW, NOTHING TO DO WITH ME AND MY PUPPY OR IRRESPECTIVE OF "ANYTHING".
> ...


wow


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> Can I ask at what point the OP has expressed anything resembling that sentiment?


For what reason? This is an online forum, people will post a multitude of opinions.


----------



## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Umm aren't I the devil dog owner on this thread?


Unfortunately some would say so cos their a Rottie but there beautiful dogs IMO, given a bad name. My aunt has them and their so gentle and gorgeous. I sure youve raised them correctly as they should be.... unfortunely some others give them a wrong upbringing and their avoided. Shame really


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> NO YOUR NOT GETTING IT IF THE DOG IS GOING TO BE BLIND, SHES GOING TO BE BLIND. WHETHER IN MY HOUSE LOVED OR A RESCUE CENTRE!?!?!
> WHY DONT YOU ALL GO ON A PARADE OR SOMETHING TO FIGHT THIS CAUSE INSTEAD OF SITTING ON A WEBSITE SENDING YOUR 2 CENTS VIA A CHATROOM?
> 
> HAVE I NOT SAID THANK YOU FOR MY KNOWLEDGE NOW OF BYBs AND THAT ITS A ROUTE I WOULD NOT TAKE NOW, NOTHING TO DO WITH ME AND MY PUPPY OR IRRESPECTIVE OF "ANYTHING".
> ...


Never said I haven't made a mistake.. Made plenty.. I would but I'm in work, and you know here in Northern Ireland they seem to have a bit of an issue about parades...


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

LolaPup2013 said:


> NO YOUR NOT GETTING IT IF THE DOG IS GOING TO BE BLIND, SHES GOING TO BE BLIND. WHETHER IN MY HOUSE LOVED OR A RESCUE CENTRE!?!?!
> WHY DONT YOU ALL GO ON A PARADE OR SOMETHING TO FIGHT THIS CAUSE INSTEAD OF SITTING ON A WEBSITE SENDING YOUR 2 CENTS VIA A CHATROOM?
> 
> HAVE I NOT SAID THANK YOU FOR MY KNOWLEDGE NOW OF BYBs AND THAT ITS A ROUTE I WOULD NOT TAKE NOW, NOTHING TO DO WITH ME AND MY PUPPY OR IRRESPECTIVE OF "ANYTHING".
> ...


:lol:

I know you're worked up but for what it's worth if many people here had their say my best mate Kes wouldn't even be alive because she is *gasp* a mongrel of all things. How abominable that she was even born. How thoughtless and stupid and awful for someone to have brought my lovely lass into the world! She was not only un-health tested but she's not even a 'breed'!!!! Shocking I know. What an awful admission.

I think you've done well with your research, and once again I wish you the best of luck with your pup, and I feel you're sincere in your wish to educate others in the future and make different decisions in the future. Best of luck with Lola, and I hope everything works out for the best, as it does with so many others.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> NO YOUR NOT GETTING IT IF THE DOG IS GOING TO BE BLIND, SHES GOING TO BE BLIND. WHETHER IN MY HOUSE LOVED OR A RESCUE CENTRE!?!?!
> WHY DONT YOU ALL GO ON A PARADE OR SOMETHING TO FIGHT THIS CAUSE INSTEAD OF SITTING ON A WEBSITE SENDING YOUR 2 CENTS VIA A CHATROOM?
> 
> HAVE I NOT SAID THANK YOU FOR MY KNOWLEDGE NOW OF BYBs AND THAT ITS A ROUTE I WOULD NOT TAKE NOW, NOTHING TO DO WITH ME AND MY PUPPY OR IRRESPECTIVE OF "ANYTHING".
> ...


For what it's worth, I do happen to have a bitch with perfect health scores, but she's spayed, so I won't be taking any names for a waiting list any time soon.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> For what reason? This is an online forum, people will post a multitude of opinions.


For what reason? For the reason that you are making, in my mind, a baseless accusation. I can see no evidence to suggest that the OP has looked for sympathy or any kind of hindsight, she actually seems to have been very up front, and should issues occur in the future she seems to know exactly why it will have happened and what she could have done to prevent it. That's my reason.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Hen, the long and short of it is, you have a choice, and you're making a choice that many on here disagree with for the reasons they've stated. If that's your choice, then that's it, don't take umbridge with others who would make a different choice. You can't really defend supporting a [email protected] breeder, if that's what you're going to go with, for whatever reason, then expect a bit of, 'didn't you know better'.


FOR THE LAST TIME, believe it or not, i didnt come on here asking for any advice on this post. Me take umbridge? people have spent there night belittling me for a choice ive made? ME!! So dont try and turn it round on me, ive explained for most of the night in a reasonable manner i appreciate GREATLY any help and advice ive received so far OR in the future yet noones opinion is changing. SO obv im ticked off now and let down tbh.

I genuinely felt id covered all angels, ive researched, asked Qs, accepted advice, thanked people a million times over, and still im the bad one? Im not the one badly breeding dogs and if i had supported this man to breed his dog again then i willl forever be regretful in the sense it happens in the world and greatful my knowledge is better now and i wont do it again! Everyones reacting as if im saying im going to continue to go down this road and encourage BYB'ing.


----------



## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Re read my post please, i NEVER asked for
> 
> I grow up with pets and *noone of this "testing*" was known when my parents got there GSDs or Labs and i just went from there as they were all healthy for good ages, but everyone dies/suffers at some point - its no reason to avoid living. I would much rather my bank balance hurt than me feeling guilty about leaving her alone.


I am not going to comment on the rest as enough people have But I am wondering how old you are?
which I think is relevant to the above in bold

Hip scoring in GSDs as been around for at least *50 years *in one form or another, the current scheme since 1984, elbow scoring as been available since 1998, Heamophilia testing approx 20years


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> For what reason? For the reason that you are making, in my mind, a baseless accusation. I can see no evidence to suggest that the OP has looked for sympathy or any kind of hindsight, she actually seems to have been very up front, and should issues occur in the future she seems to know exactly why it will have happened and what she could have done to prevent it. That's my reason.


I never said she had, in fact I've posted (as far as I can see) to say it's very much their decision, but also tried to put across the argument as to why buying from a byb is a bad idea. In fact if you look back, the OP has actually thanked me a couple of times. But, the OP is new to the dog world, or fairly new, by their own admission, so why is it bad to give advice from those with hindsight?


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> For what reason? For the reason that you are making, in my mind, a baseless accusation. I can see no evidence to suggest that the OP has looked for sympathy or any kind of hindsight, she actually seems to have been very up front, and should issues occur in the future she seems to know exactly why it will have happened and what she could have done to prevent it. That's my reason.


Thank you!! I genuinely am baffled as to how this thread changed from me thanking people to this! If i had asked for advice from either day one before i paid ANYTHING and continued to go down the road ive went OR came on today asking for help and disreguarded it i would understand the frustration - but ive not!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> FOR THE LAST TIME, believe it or not, i didnt come on here asking for any advice on this post. Me take umbridge? people have spent there night belittling me for a choice ive made? ME!! So dont try and turn it round on me, ive explained for most of the night in a reasonable manner i appreciate GREATLY any help and advice ive received so far OR in the future yet noones opinion is changing. SO obv im ticked off now and let down tbh.
> 
> I genuinely felt id covered all angels, ive researched, asked Qs, accepted advice, thanked people a million times over, and still im the bad one? Im not the one badly breeding dogs and if i had supported this man to breed his dog again then i willl forever be regretful in the sense it happens in the world and greatful my knowledge is better now and i wont do it again! Everyones reacting as if im saying im going to continue to go down this road and encourage BYB'ing.


But this is it, you are still buying a pup from a byb, you know what they are, and yet you're willing to go ahead. That is your decision, yours alone. You've done as much research as you've done so far, realised this person is less than good, and are not going to change your mind That is up to you. There are many thousands more who don't even know what they're buying, does that make it wrong, or right??


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I never said she had, in fact I've posted (as far as I can see) to say it's very much their decision, but also tried to put across the argument as to why buying from a byb is a bad idea. In fact if you look back, the OP has actually thanked me a couple of times. But, the OP is new to the dog world, or fairly new, by their own admission, so why is it bad to give advice from those with hindsight?


Nothing wrong at all with it SL and I think you do a stand up job of educating people on here in a very dispassionate way which I think should be commended. I just take umbridge with the idea that she will somehow be back making comments ignorantly about her pup as if she doesn't know better. It seems very clear to me that she is going into this situation with very open eyes and still willing to make this 'mistake'.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> WHY DONT YOU ALL GO ON A PARADE OR SOMETHING TO FIGHT THIS CAUSE INSTEAD OF SITTING ON A WEBSITE SENDING YOUR 2 CENTS VIA A CHATROOM?


You'll find theres many petitions running on the site to get BYB's shut down, others organizing peaceful protests etc.

Sadly, although these people mean well, they are always outnumbered by puppy buyers just like yourself...


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I never said she had, in fact I've posted (as far as I can see) to say it's very much their decision, but also tried to put across the argument as to why buying from a byb is a bad idea. In fact if you look back, the OP has actually thanked me a couple of times. But, the OP is new to the dog world, or fairly new, by their own admission, so why is it bad to give advice from those with hindsight?


I am greatful for any constructive help, i know all i need to know reguarding BYB/breeding of Labs now that i need to know it would be nice to draw a line under it and not be adressed as "hen" or feel attacked about a choice i made a while ago, i dont want to come on here and see all the same comments that i already KNOW its just upsetting. Everyone has helped me and i dont know what else to say i do not think ive been arrogant or selfish i think ive been quite upfront and honest and just meerly wanted to thank people not reopen the previous discussions ive had. The bad points in my first post on this thread are no longer relevent so its just a thank u thread really now.....


----------



## maxandskye (Jan 31, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> For what reason? For the reason that you are making, in my mind, a baseless accusation. I can see no evidence to suggest that the OP has looked for sympathy or any kind of hindsight, she actually seems to have been very up front, and should issues occur in the future she seems to know exactly why it will have happened and what she could have done to prevent it. That's my reason.


Sorry to but in, BUT she can prevent it from happening now & walk away ! Sorry just my two pennies worth.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

JeanGenie said:


> You'll find theres many petitions running on the site to get BYB's shut down, others organizing peaceful protests etc.
> 
> Sadly, although these people mean well, they are always outnumbered by puppy buyers just like yourself...


I think that would be puppy farms/mills that you mean, and not BYB. Two different things.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

maxandskye said:


> Sorry to but in, BUT she can stop it from preventing now & walk away ! Sorry just my two pennies worth.


Yes and your two pennies worth doesn't really help her in this situation, unless you fancy giving her a few hundred quid to replace her losses? Some people have very tight funds, and some do not. Some people think some should save up for a cahmpdogs type dog, and some do not, and some cannot even comprehend how saving up for a champdog-esque dog is not even possible for some.

What I would say OP is why not get an older rescue dog that's good with kids?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I am greatful for any constructive help, i know all i need to know reguarding BYB/breeding of Labs now that i need to know it would be nice to draw a line under it and not be adressed as "hen" or feel attacked about a choice i made a while ago, i dont want to come on here and see all the same comments that i already KNOW its just upsetting. Everyone has helped me and i dont know what else to say i do not think ive been arrogant or selfish i think ive been quite upfront and honest and just meerly wanted to thank people not reopen the previous discussions ive had. The bad points in my first post on this thread are no longer relevent so its just a thank u thread really now.....


Hen is something I use with remembrance of my Nan, it's a Scottish term of endearment, ie you're trying to make it a bit more personal and less impersonal, if that makes sense.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Never said I haven't made a mistake.. Made plenty.. I would but I'm in work, and you know here in Northern Ireland they seem to have a bit of an issue about parades...


HAHA i genuinely just laughed there at the parade comment 

I respect you for ur mistake and all im asking is im supported as any other new dog owner here.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Hen is something I use with remembrance of my Nan, it's a Scottish term of endearment, ie you're trying to make it a bit more personal and less impersonal, if that makes sense.


Im scottish and hen is definately not endearment here, well not in this day in age - or where i live, and i apologies if u did mean it in that way.

Jeeez this forum is an emotional ride :yesnod:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Im scottish and hen is definately not endearment here, well not in this day in age - or where i live, and i apologies if u did mean it in that way.
> 
> Jeeez this forum is an emotional ride :yesnod:


Owning dogs is an emotional ride, I knew you were from Scotland, hence the 'hen', my Nan was from Jedburgh, and my Grandad was from Galashiels.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> Yes and your two pennies worth doesn't really help her in this situation, unless you fancy giving her a few hundred quid to replace her losses? Some people have very tight funds, and some do not. Some people think some should save up for a cahmpdogs type dog, and some do not, and some cannot even comprehend how saving up for a champdog-esque dog is not even possible for some.
> 
> What I would say OP is why not get an older rescue dog that's good with kids?


I was with the rescue centre around here for a year and its a small centre, no younger dogs and the only suitable breeds i liked were all registered as "adult only homes". It was an older pup/dog we originially wanted - just none suitable, i didnt want to take a risk IMO if they are classed as adult only  which is why its all the more hurtful now weve found a happy medium breed wise and price wise this has happened.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Owning dogs is an emotional ride, I knew you were from Scotland, hence the 'hen', my Nan was from Jedburgh, and my Grandad was from Galashiels.


Tell me about it and i dont even have her home yet,24 hours. I cant imagine living without a dog. This is my first time in a house myself away from parents, and ive waited 2 years and been patient and typical its not gone smoothly 

Did u visit scotland at all when they lived her? Apologies if they still do and i missed that part 
Hen used in the correct term, as u did, should be a nice nickname, however sarcastic arguements within young groups as blacklisted it. Its one of those words u read online or in a text message and u presume the wrong context - as i just did


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Tell me about it and i dont even have her home yet,24 hours. I cant imagine living without a dog. This is my first time in a house myself away from parents, and ive waited 2 years and been patient and typical its not gone smoothly
> 
> Did u visit scotland at all when they lived her? Apologies if they still do and i missed that part
> Hen used in the correct term, as u did, should be a nice nickname, however sarcastic arguements within young groups as blacklisted it. Its one of those words u read online or in a text message and u presume the wrong context - as i just did


No, I use Hen when I'm either friends with, or trying to assume a friendly attitude with people, if that makes sense.

I've visited Scotland many times, although I now live in Yorkshire, in fact I've lived all over the world. My Nan and Grandad didn't live in Scotland when I was little, I visited later, but I love it, and if you've ever visited the Yorkshire Dales you'll probably feel a similar sense of belonging.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> No, I use Hen when I'm either friends with, or trying to assume a friendly attitude with people, if that makes sense.
> 
> I've visited Scotland many times, although I now live in Yorkshire, in fact I've lived all over the world. My Nan and Grandad didn't live in Scotland when I was little, I visited later, but I love it, and if you've ever visited the Yorkshire Dales you'll probably feel a similar sense of belonging.


Ahhh plenty countryside in yorkshire dales? It is beautiful for the most part here i just pray it keeps it greenlands and country land and hills for the forseeable future. Theres not much left in the UK and it is truly beautiful.

Well thanks very much Hen


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Ahhh plenty countryside in yorkshire dales? It is beautiful for the most part here i just pray it keeps it greenlands and country land and hills for the forseeable future. Theres not much left in the UK and it is truly beautiful.
> 
> Well thanks very much Hen


Thank you, as I've said to you before, it's entirely your decision, you do have a choice but it is up to you. I ain't going to say more than that, people draw lines all over the place, you've seen from what people have posted what the thoughts are. But cheers for the hen


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Thank you, as I've said to you before, it's entirely your decision, you do have a choice but it is up to you. I ain't going to say more than that, people draw lines all over the place, you've seen from what people have posted what the thoughts are. But cheers for the hen


Well all i can say is i HOPE i am bringing home a happy healthy puppy, and dont want to ponder on the negatives too much.
AND.. i genuinely hope people understand i appreciate ALL experiences shared and advice. I may seem ignorant knowing what i know now and not walking away but i just couldnt. HOWEVER supporting BYB'ing is not what i aim to do again. I hope to be able to come for advice, im sure ill need plenty, and share photos and tales of my journey with Lola.

You are clearly very experienced and i appreciate u taking the time to tell me all the facts and information you have done.


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## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

I can see the dilemma you have been put in 

Mine was a similar (tho not a byb) dilemma

We found out 4 days before angel was due to be officially ours that she had a bad leg issue 4 days after 2 months of me looking wanting hoping talking hubby round playing the fee falling in love showing the kids all excited ... 

I was TOLD to walk away I was told this on the strongest terms her leg could cost us thousands as no insurance will cover

I (kinda) worry every day that if the leg goes what do we do ... 

But I could NOT leave her I had to rescue her & make her life as good as I can

I know it isn't the same thing really as I haven't supported a byb who will most likely do it again & again

BUT if this person walks away from Lola who they have no doubt fallen in love with prepared for emotionally etc then where will this pup end up what will happen to her 

At least this owner has a new understanding of byb (I hadn't heard of them either before here) & will possibly work towards educating anybody else

Hope I don't get shot down now I've had a fantastic day driving super cars & want to go bed happy lol


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

LolaPup2013 said:


> *That was actually a joke post but hey ho over your head i guess....
> *
> I dont plan on ever knowing if he breeds her again, how would i ever find out. I would like to hope he would stick to his word but hey ho i guess im old fashioned in that sense!
> 
> ...


The fact that you *can* even try and 'joke' about this says it all really.

The breeder is an uncaring git and while you claim to 'care' about the puppy, you don't give a damn about all the OTHER puppies that this man will no doubt breed, nor do you care at all about your pup's MUM.

The breeder must have seen you coming a mile off.

You might like to note that alas I speak AS an owner of a young Lab with hip dysplasia. Perhaps that's why I DON'T and CAN'T 'joke' about this.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Well this thread has certainly started to get nasty... (ooh look, elipses)
> 
> My pet insurance hasn't risen after 18 months...just sayin


Phoolf, not having a go just using your post to highlight, you will pay less for Kes than the OP will for Lola.
I pay the least for Bos as he is classes as a crossbreed, then Lexi (with her multitude of health issues) is next and then Nala the most expensive.

For lifelong cover I pay £16 a month for Bos (never claimed) £22 for Lex (have claimed) £35 for Nala last year and went up this year to £42 (never claimed) I work in insurance so I queried it, and I got told that labs represent so a high risk to insurers because they have so many health issues so the premiums are always higher.

Secondly I am personal friends with Sleeping_lion (as in real life off the forum) and she calls me Hen all the time, so she is being genuinely friendly with that (either that or she has been insulting me for 2 years and I haven't realised lol)

Finally OP the final decision is yours but I am another with a BYB dog, Lexi is a staffie, she was £250 not KC reg no health tests. At 6 months old she started with allergies as an idea she is allergic to
Grass - Cost £1500 to replace the garden with artificial grass so my dog can go outside
dust mites - change her towel bedding daily and boil wash weekly
food storage mites - she HAS to be raw fed as any dry food makes her ill
Cereal allergy - have to be so careful with what she eats

On top of all this she has reoccurring ear and eye infections, plus at 4 she has a lump on her eye (benign tumour) that needs removing and we are starting with hip issues and she does have temperament issues around other dogs.

Finally my major concern is when she was spayed she was allergic to the GA and the stitches her spay alone cost nearly £500 for all the after care and its not covered by the insurance.....all in all she has cost me in total in excess of £2500....

Nala on the other had is a 14 month old chocolate lab, parents hip scored clear eye cert, she is CNM clear, EIC clear, ticked all the boxes, she cost me £500 and that's it really, aside when she ate Lexis antibiotic eye cream and that cost me £14 to replace but that's it, she is a totally healthy happy puppy, and I have to say I have enjoyed her so much more....I spent from Lexi been 6 months old panicking and worrying all the time about her health, where as Nala I have just been able to enjoy her.

As I say that's just my story and the finally decision is yours and I wish you luck with your new pup regardless.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> The fact that you *can* even try and 'joke' about this says it all really.
> 
> The breeder is an uncaring git and while you claim to 'care' about the puppy, you don't give a damn about all the OTHER puppies that this man will no doubt breed, nor do you care at all about your pup's MUM.
> 
> ...


And where did u get your dog from, a perfectly good breeder i assume with health checks and look whats happened?

Life does as it does and noone can change it.

Assume all u want about what i "care" about. You havent the slightest clue!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> And where did u get your dog from, a perfectly good breeder i assume with health checks and look whats happened?


Errrr no..... I believe she got her dog from a rescue. Probably bred by a BYB same as yours.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

MerlinsMum said:


> Errrr no..... I believe she got her dog from a rescue. Probably bred by a BYB same as yours.


Was just writing the same thing but didn't know how to word it!


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

MerlinsMum said:


> Errrr no..... I believe she got her dog from a rescue. Probably bred by a BYB same as yours.


Or it could have been bred by a perfectly decent breeder and the new owners just didnt want them?

LIFE IS LIFE.

Ive comitted now pipe down and move on, surely theres some other person looking for "help" and "advice". IF my puppy needs any assistance, as owned by a yellow lab, has done, i will take care of her forever. Whether i struggle money wise or not she will be loved and treated with whatever she needs. Again hopefully nothing will arise but if so then its just got to be dealt with.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Donut76 said:


> I can see the dilemma you have been put in
> 
> Mine was a similar (tho not a byb) dilemma
> 
> ...


Thank you, although as u say u didnt support a BYB you clearly had a tough choice. I already think of Lola as part of my family, my son asks for her everyday and LOVES taking her new toys out her toybox and counting them and tlking about how hes to behave with her and what the "rules" are. I cannot imagine walking away and not knowing whats happened, only then to eventually get another Lab who may have health issues later in life also.

Its a gamble and a worry - but so is my son or my family and i couldnt be without them either.

Again i would like to remind people there are MANY reasons for my choice, be it all good or totally bad - its made and i am learning, i guess i always will, ill never know it all. My opinions at this point are vague as i havent had any personal experiences yet however i did not come on here to offend anyone or give an impression i dont care - thats simply not the case. I have learnt and assured people i will not be in this situation again, and certainly wont be blindsighted or so naive however this time i could not and will not walk away when all 6 are sold and only Lola would be left. What if he kept her and bred her too... not worth the risk to me anyways! Shes my new "furry" baby and worth every risk.

I dont particulary want to comment anymore on this as its going round in circles, i would never wish any harm on any living thing, be it human or pet. I joined this forum already set on Lola - and just wish to be treat like any other new dog owner!


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> And where did u get your dog from, a perfectly good breeder i assume with health checks and look whats happened?
> 
> Life does as it does and noone can change it.
> 
> Assume all u want about what i "care" about. You havent the slightest clue!


I think you'll find her dog is a rescue actually.

My Labrador's parents health scores are as follows
Sire: 5/5 hips. 0 elbows. Clear eyes. Clear PRA. Clear CNM. Clear EIC.
Dam: 3/5 hips. 0 elbows. Clear eyes.

My bitches Hip score is 4/4 and elbow score is 0. The fact that the Sire is clear from those diseases listed mean my dog cannot be affected by PRA, CNM or EIC.

Pippa's health test scores so far show a strong genetic influence over hips and elbows.

Yes, sometimes dogs from health tested parents do get wildly high scores, however this is pretty uncommon. 
I just hope the Sire and Dams parents had good health test results and hopefully they passed on their good genes. But by the sound of this bloke I highly doubt it! *


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Or it could have been bred by a perfectly decent breeder and the new owners just didnt want them?
> 
> LIFE IS LIFE.
> 
> *Ive comitted now pipe down and move on*, surely theres some other person looking for "help" and "advice". IF my puppy needs any assistance, as owned by a yellow lab, has done, i will take care of her forever. Whether i struggle money wise or not she will be loved and treated with whatever she needs. Again hopefully nothing will arise but if so then its just got to be dealt with.


Since when are you the forum police?


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

dandogman said:


> I think you'll find her dog is a rescue actually.
> 
> My Labrador's parents health scores are as follows
> Sire: 5/5 hips. 0 elbows. Clear eyes. Clear PRA. Clear CNM. Clear EIC.
> ...


Im wondering if the pups parents are related, 2 black labs, have seen that before


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

catlove844 said:


> Since when are you the forum police?


What a mature reply :bored: :ciappa:


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> What a mature reply :bored: :ciappa:


well it was a 'mature' reply to 'pipe down and move on'


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

catlove844 said:


> Im wondering if the pups parents are related, 2 black labs, have seen that before


There not, hes had the mother for 7 years and the male only for 2-3years. He showed me photos of them as pups and his paperwork for the male.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

catlove844 said:


> well it was a 'mature' reply to 'pipe down and move on'


Nothing to do with maturity on my part was a simple point being made, that STILL people are commenting the same stuff looking for the worse - its ALL been said to why don't u save ur self the effort.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> There not, hes had the mother for 7 years and the male only for 2-3years. He showed me photos of them as pups and his paperwork for the male.


So this is meant to be her first litter at 7 years old??????    And he never thought to neuter them after all this time? Im guessing this is more like her 7th litter!


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

catlove844 said:


> So this is meant to be her first litter at 7 years old??????


Thats what my previous post was about, the breeder wasnt aware she would/could get pregnant - so he says again i dont know how her "cycle" has been im assuming she hasnt bled or had an obvious season for him to assume this. This is clearly massive error on his part. He was a concerned owner who literally came downstairs at start of June and she was giving birth. He was so scared he took them all straight to the vet as he had no idea she was pregnant, at one stage he did think shes put some weight on but didnnt follow it through as he had no idea shed be able to conceive.

Silly on his part but certainly didnt shove them in a room to mate and reproduce OR at least the impression i get - again could be my niavity showing through which i could be REALLY wrong. I hope not though. It may have been 5 years he had her im sure he said 7 though


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

I have never ever had a un-neutered girl or boy so don't know anything about mating them, so no idea, unless they left them alone a lot, I don't know how you cant see if a boy wasn't interested? Or her getting bigger? I don't know a breeder on here would need to say


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

catlove844 said:


> So this is meant to be her first litter at 7 years old??????    And he never thought to neuter them after all this time? Im guessing this is more like her 7th litter!


Your assuming all the worst scenarios and tarring everyone with the same brush! This man has never done anything to make me doubt him, ONLY in the sense he has been upfront that hes not a breeder per say and wasnt planning any of this and doesnt want to rip anyone off, he has been as helpful as he can be and tried to answer all my Qs and genuienly seemed concerned if he would manage with them for the first 8weeks but has never forced me to do anything or take them early etc.

I have no bad gut feelings about this, and i always trust my gut. Again if im being niave then i guess ill be sorry but i dont think i am. He joined gumtree the day before advertising the pups however he advertised them through paper etc first before turning to gumtree - im not sure he even knew what gumtree was before his son told him.

I would like to see the good in people UNTIL or IF im led to believe otherwise. Hopefully im not wrong as Lucy (lolas mum is lovely stunning dog and so friendly i wouldnt wish her any harm, i have however saved his details on gumtree and his account to keep and eye out Just incase!)


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Thats what my previous post was about, the breeder wasnt aware she would/could get pregnant - so he says again i dont know how her "cycle" has been im assuming she hasnt bled or had an obvious season for him to assume this. This is clearly massive error on his part. He was a concerned owner who literally came downstairs at start of June and she was giving birth. He was so scared he took them all straight to the vet as he had no idea she was pregnant, at one stage he did think shes put some weight on but didnnt follow it through as he had no idea shed be able to conceive.
> 
> Silly on his part but certainly didnt shove them in a room to mate and reproduce OR at least the impression i get - again could be my niavity showing through which i could be REALLY wrong. I hope not though. It may have been 5 years he had her im sure he said 7 though


that's Quite a story there :sosp: i'm normally one of those that believe accidents happen, but 7 pups and it never dawned of him? how dim is this man! he May not have realized she could conceive, but at some point he'll have noticed she was in heat, or pregnant. not a chance his boy would have been acting anywhere normally- at very least he'll have had to be concerned about his males behavior... he has embellished his story at some point there...


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

catlove844 said:


> I have never ever had a un-neutered girl or boy so don't know anything about mating them, so no idea, unless they left them alone a lot, I don't know how you cant see if a boy wasn't interested? Or her getting bigger? I don't know a breeder on here would need to say


Me too, im not sure how a girls season works in terms of how they act and how much they bleed. I would assume, aswell, that dogs arent going to have to wait until there alone and with her being on heat they would try and do it wherever so it does baffle me why they were left alone, but thats my lack of knowledge. I do hope he isnt going to breed her again. Time will tell i guess and i hope im right.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> There not, hes had the mother for 7 years and the male only for 2-3years. He showed me photos of them as pups and his paperwork for the male.


My word........ it gets worse! 
Sorry Lolapup, the hole you have dug just gets bigger and bigger. 
Nobody is that ignorant. Nobody. This guy has stitched you up good and proper.

Take the puppy if you wish.... but don't say nobody warned you. You've been had.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

kodakkuki said:


> that's Quite a story there :sosp: i'm normally one of those that believe accidents happen, but 7 pups and it never dawned of him? how dim is this man! he May not have realized she could conceive, but at some point he'll have noticed she was in heat, or pregnant. not a chance his boy would have been acting anywhere normally- at very least he'll have had to be concerned about his males behavior... he has embellished his story at some point there...


I cant remember if he mentioned the boys behaviour, hes an older gentleman and mumbles slightly he did explain it though, i cant recall his full "story" i think regardless he claimed "accidental litter" which i now know is a common excuse for BYB. At the time i obviously didnt question anything, i wouldnt have really noticed if he said hed openly mated them as i obvs had no idea about tests and the thought and time that goes into breeding.

Now i do its a shame he hadnt done the relelvent tests as hes done everything else quite well i think for a "newbie" to it all (or so he says).


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Me too, im not sure how a girls season works in terms of how they act and how much they bleed. I would assume, aswell, that dogs arent going to have to wait until there alone and with her being on heat they would try and do it wherever so it does baffle me why they were left alone, but thats my lack of knowledge. I do hope he isnt going to breed her again. Time will tell i guess and i hope im right.


She is seven years old. She will have had a season, on average, every six months for the last 6.5 years. That's thirteen seasons, each of which last about a month.

The male is 2-3 years old. He would have been more than capable of mating her successfully from six months onwards.

You do the sums.

Just to add: a first litter at 7 years? 7 puppies and no c-section? That's the equivalent of a 45 year old woman having her first baby. Most decent breeders retire their girls from breeding at 7.... in fact the Kennel Club won't register litters from bitches that age, I think it's 7 or 8.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

MerlinsMum said:


> My word........ it gets worse!
> Sorry Lolapup, the hole you have dug just gets bigger and bigger.
> Nobody is that ignorant. Nobody. This guy has stitched you up good and proper.
> 
> Take the puppy if you wish.... but don't say nobody warned you. You've been had.


Im aware i have not done it right route i wouldnt say id been had as i didnt expect anything more than he offered, i went to see a pup pick it and buy her. i didnt have a clue about anything more so he can lie all he wants i wouldnt have had a clue and frankly didnt have many Qs for him. Thats my error - my only point is i hope he doesnt breed her again unsure as to how id find out though if he doesnt try sell on same account.

PS i havent "dug any hole" as im not attempting to hide anything or excuse anything - ive done what ive done and been honest and had this whole conversation in my first few threads in here.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Your assuming all the worst scenarios and tarring everyone with the same brush! This man has never done anything to make me doubt him, ONLY in the sense he has been upfront that hes not a breeder per say and wasnt planning any of this and doesnt want to rip anyone off, he has been as helpful as he can be and tried to answer all my Qs and genuienly seemed concerned if he would manage with them for the first 8weeks but has never forced me to do anything or take them early etc.
> 
> I have no bad gut feelings about this, and i always trust my gut. Again if im being niave then i guess ill be sorry but i dont think i am. He joined gumtree the day before advertising the pups however he advertised them through paper etc first before turning to gumtree - im not sure he even knew what gumtree was before his son told him.
> 
> I would like to see the good in people UNTIL or IF im led to believe otherwise. Hopefully im not wrong as Lucy (lolas mum is lovely stunning dog and so friendly i wouldnt wish her any harm, *i have however saved his details on gumtree and his account to keep and eye out Just incase!)*


NOT SAYING THIS IS TRUE OF HIM, but the puppy farmer i knew (began as byb, and her dogs kept multiplying to over 50 last time i heard) used to breed the dogs and kennel them at her mothers home, and then take the litters to her own bungalow to sell (toy breeds get to be raised in her house too) so people don't know of all her other dogs- and if she has too many litters at once, she seems to rotate them with her mother/kennels). she also has a different nickname and number for each breed, as well as a different email and free-ad account. 
(i only learned of this after i'd dealt with her a few times trying to see the good in people- until it went pear-shaped (to put it Soo mildly) a while after me buying an 'accidental' pup- which happened again the next year) 
oh, and every genetic issue that crops up warrants a new number to avoid the issue.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

MerlinsMum said:


> She is seven years old. She will have had a season, on average, every six months for the last 6.5 years. That's thirteen seasons, each of which last about a month.
> 
> The male is 2-3 years old. He would have been more than capable of mating her successfully from six months onwards.
> 
> You do the sums.


Im not going to sit and do sums. Again i am not going to leave Lola with him/them. shes our family now. If he proceeds to do anything untoward then itll be on his head and i certainly wont be supporting any of this breeding again.

As far as i thought i found two dogs they made babies people gave them homes.

Now i know better.... however i wont be walking away from her and leaving her behind.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> Im aware i have not done it right route i wouldnt say id been had as i didnt expect anything more than he offered, i went to see a pup pick it and buy her. i didnt have a clue about anything more so he can lie all he wants i wouldnt have had a clue and frankly didnt have many Qs for him. Thats my error - my only point is i hope he doesnt breed her again unsure as to how id find out though if he doesnt try sell on same account.
> 
> PS i havent "dug any hole" as im not attempting to hide anything or excuse anything - ive done what ive done and been honest and had this whole conversation in my first few threads in here.


The hole is dug from all the stuff you're now revealing. If you'd said all this in your first posts, we'd have not only told you to run a mile, but chartered a private jet to help you get away faster.


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

Labrador puppies for sale | Cornwall | Gumtree

Did a search on gumtree and found this! I know its not the op sellers but was really shocked!


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

MerlinsMum said:


> The hole is dug from all the stuff you're now revealing. If you'd said all this in your first posts, we'd have not only told you to run a mile, but chartered a private jet to help you get away faster.


Well thats very good of you to offer but no thanks. Ive not just revealed it its al on my profile - and a few of the people i was talking to tonight already know all this! Im not justifying my point again. I WILL NOT LEAVE A TINY BABY ALONE WHEN I HAVE A HOME FOR HER JUST TO PROVE A POINT. However i will learn the lesson for future. I could EASILY tell u all ive "changed my mind" and disappear from the forum and keep Lola secret but i wont as shes not to blame. and deserves a great home


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

catlove844 said:


> Labrador puppies for sale | Cornwall | Gumtree
> 
> Did a search on gumtree and found this! I know its not the op sellers but was really shocked!


MY GOD. Free to good home? Now im not smart at this, wel better now, but this is a joke, NO caring dog owner is going to trust there pedigrees and free!! And brown isnt a lab colouring again someone should flag that up and also a few look black or is that my eyes ?


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> There not, hes had the mother for 7 years and the male only for 2-3years. He showed me photos of them as pups and his paperwork for the male.


How on earth do you know they are not mother and son Highly possible!


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> MY GOD. Free to good home? Now im not smart at this, wel better now, but this is a joke, NO caring dog owner is going to trust there pedigrees and free!! And brown isnt a lab colouring again someone should flag that up and also a few look black or is that my eyes ?


 He could mean 'Chocolate'..


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

So genuine question for you? What age did you go and see the pup? What age did your OH then pay the deposit, you said you weren't there is that correct?


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

JeanGenie said:


> How on earth do you know they are not mother and son Highly possible!


I dont know and just answering with what ive been told, again i am trusting at this point until i have my own "horror" story to tell.

I was raised to see the good side of a bad situation not to jst be a closed book that hates on everyone, ive actually had a few people message me tonight stating theyve been in similar situations or believe they could be classed at some point in their lives as a BYB bt they wouldnt dare say it out here. Not everyones a monster out to hurt puppies and babies and rob people.

I like to believe and hope life still has some good in it, all be it i am aware evil exists!


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

You have indeed. No-one is born knowing everything including - surprisingly - me. The last time I "knew everything" I think I was 22....

The more I mix with dog folk (like I do on this forum and at Obedience Club) the more I learn and I've learnt enough to know I know VERY little.

Welcome to dog ownership and a lifetime of learning. Enjoy your pup. Labradors are a LOVELY dog and generally very healthy. I'm sure your pup will be fine and she's a lucky pup to be in a caring home.

Share what you know now with people that you meet and it will help to reduce irresponsible breeding. We ALL make mistakes and people have to know that there's a need to research before they research. The important thing is that a pup has a good home and you are the sort of caring dog-aware person who will help other people to avoid mistakes. 

ENJOY THE PUP!


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> MY GOD. Free to good home? Now im not smart at this, wel better now, but this is a joke, NO caring dog owner is going to trust there pedigrees and free!! And brown isnt a lab colouring again someone should flag that up and also a few look black or is that my eyes ?


All look like black pups to me, cant tell if they are labs or not but free?! Im thinking scam, gumtree worst place on the planet :incazzato:



JeanGenie said:


> How on earth do you know they are not mother and son Highly possible!


Oh my god, that sounds like it can be possible, he didn't think she could get pregnant as they are related?? A lot of people believe that, in the vets someone brought in a cocker that got pregnant by her brother, the person was laughing about it like it was a big old joke, they kept 2 of the puppies but still haven't neutered any of them


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> So genuine question for you? What age did you go and see the pup? What age did your OH then pay the deposit, you said you weren't there is that correct?


No we went around together when she was 3 weeks old (verging on four) and paid our deposit together (minus my son).

Then last Friday my OH went and dropped off a blanket to go in with the litter just now to get the smells and things for coming home - to help settle her in when she comes home, and due to his lack of listening skills paid another £200 to him. AS id told him to withdraw some money towards the pup so we dont spend it or waste it and can keep it safe and he thought id meant to just hand it over "while he was there" and thought he was doing a good thing


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I cant remember if he mentioned the boys behaviour, hes an older gentleman and mumbles slightly he did explain it though, i cant recall his full "story" i think regardless he claimed "accidental litter" which i now know is a common excuse for BYB. At the time i obviously didnt question anything, i wouldnt have really noticed if he said hed openly mated them as i obvs had no idea about tests and the thought and time that goes into breeding.
> 
> Now i do its a *shame he hadnt done the relelvent tests* as hes done everything else quite well i think for a "newbie" to it all (or so he says).





LolaPup2013 said:


> Im not going to sit and do sums. Again i am not going to leave Lola with him/them. shes our family now. If he proceeds to do anything untoward then itll be on his head and i certainly wont be supporting any of this breeding again.*
> 
> As far as i thought i found two dogs they made babies people gave them homes.*
> 
> Now i know better.... however i wont be walking away from her and leaving her behind.


i totally get what your saying- it's not easy detaching yourself from a pup you've picked- i haven't even picked a breeder for getting my standard poodle pup from yet (so suggestions would be nice people  ) but i'm already in love with this pup!
but i have had to walk away before... when i was looking My first dog i wanted a long haired one- possibly a yorkie like my mums, but anything that wouldnt cast too much (i was 16 and living at home) so we drove over an hour to see a litter of apsos. the guy was meeting us at the garage before taking us to his house- instead he showed up with 2 lasa aapsos and an older pom pup in his boot for me to choose... i wanted them all to take them away from him (after he handed me them for me to hold/bond with) but didn't. it still breaks my heart.

though when i did get my pup (a yorkieXchi- the 'accident' i was talking about) the lady told me how she'd have awesome pups, and she'd help and guide me when the time came... but when the time came i used one of her studs who she knew carried a defect, though i didn't find this out until all her pups were booked with families waiting, and at 7 1/2 weeks old i had to tell a family that their puppy wouldn't be going home. i had to do it all over again at 11 weeks when another pup passed away after running into the padded side of a sofa.

even if this was an accident and he had then researched and chose to test hips, eyes etc. his complete lack of knowledge in the line (highly doubting he would here) means things like this could have happened and he would be clueless to the possibility as i was (and that $%$£ was aware of but couldn't give a toss).


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

catlove844 said:


> All look like black pups to me, cant tell if they are labs or not but free?! Im thinking scam, gumtree worst place on the planet :incazzato:
> 
> Oh my god, that sounds like it can be possible, he didn't think she could get pregnant as they are related?? A lot of people believe that, in the vets someone brought in a cocker that got pregnant by her brother, the person was laughing about it like it was a big old joke, they kept 2 of the puppies but still haven't neutered any of them


I agree with the gumtree part now, they shouldnt be allowed to advertise on there for animals IMO (NOW), i lierally thought it was innocent ad and same with wee card in shop window etc. Boy have i had alot to learn...

I wouldnt like to guess if related however i would pray they werent. But i am learning you never know in these situations, ill be glad when i can just have Lola home and safe. I must admit that was what me and my partner were most concerned about (after speaking on here and learning of BYB) was that if the mum is getting older now and we left Lola and as shes the only one left we were frightened he would keep her (if this is his agenda all along idk) and breed her - that disgusts me so thats where our choice mostly tipped in favour of taking her.


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## Bramblesmum (Aug 23, 2011)

Pointermum said:


> I gave up reading a some point  but you mention insurnace A LOT as your back up, just so you know year on year my dog insurance has gone up 50% after year one, 120% after year 2 and 80% after year 3 and i've never made a claim
> 
> So what might seem like affordable insurance now at £10-20 a month soon becomes £40/60 after only 3 years and as i said that is with NO claims.
> 
> If you can't afford to walk away from £200 can you really afford a dog


My thoughts exactly - or what happened to me - three years into insurance funnily enough at the end of the year when we had to claim over the maximum allowed (so I had to fund the balance...) the insurance co withdrew cover.... leaving me with an uninsured and uninsurable dog...


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Bramblesmum said:


> My thoughts exactly - or what happened to me - three years into insurance funnily enough at the end of the year when we had to claim over the maximum allowed (so I had to fund the balance...) the insurance co withdrew cover.... leaving me with an uninsured and uninsurable dog...


AGAIN just to repeat my financial state is well equipped for a dog and i just am not shelling out £200 for a pup im leaving behind and then another 500 or so for a new one, thats ridiculous.

ALSO AGAIN regards to insurance, im aware of how it works and ALSO AGAIN i could take a health tested lab and need to use it and end up coughing up.

I can not and will not keep saying the same things - if u have formed a "terrible" opinion of me i can only apologies and try to take it on the chin.

I dont know wht else to say that hasnt already been said and i can only hope i can share my journey with Lola openly and freely without people assuming im sitting here saying 
"aww itl all be okay she will be perfectly healthy" OR "aww it doesnt matter i have insurance". As i am most definately not, we have had many conversations about this and we have made our minds up to be selfless for this one occassion and help Lola out. And learn the lesson and live with our choice.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> No we went around together when she was 3 weeks old (verging on four) and paid our deposit together (minus my son).
> 
> Then last Friday my OH went and dropped off a blanket to go in with the litter just now to get the smells and things for coming home - to help settle her in when she comes home, and due to his lack of listening skills paid another £200 to him. AS id told him to withdraw some money towards the pup so we dont spend it or waste it and can keep it safe and he thought id meant to just hand it over "while he was there" and thought he was doing a good thing


I really really am not trying to kick you when your down I'm not and sorry if I sound like I am, but who is Lola? I doubt it's the pup you paid the deposit on  I'd love to be able to think the best of people and think everyone is above board and doing it for the love of animals, but human nature ain't that good! Do you know what see those people that did message you, shame on them for not supporting you in public! That just makes my mind boggle oops breeders will always plead ignorance! Have to say good for you for having the balls to stand up for what you think is right shame on them for not standing with you if they think what they did was right!


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

LolaPup2013 said:


> AGAIN just to repeat my financial state is well equipped for a dog and i just am not shelling out £200 for a pup im leaving behind and then another 500 or so for a new one, thats ridiculous.
> 
> ALSO AGAIN regards to insurance, im aware of how it works and ALSO AGAIN i could take a health tested lab and need to use it and end up coughing up.
> 
> ...


This is a forum and a lot of people just read the first post and then post their reply so you will get a lot of them same replies, that's a forum for you though!


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

ozrex said:


> You have indeed. No-one is born knowing everything including - surprisingly - me. The last time I "knew everything" I think I was 22....
> 
> The more I mix with dog folk (like I do on this forum and at Obedience Club) the more I learn and I've learnt enough to know I know VERY little.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Again not encouraging me to follow through with this but also just supporting my choice.

Ive learnt through my son and lifes ups and downs that i defo dont know everything and can only do my best.

Its easy to feel intimatated - tho i hope not intended - in these sorts of conversations so little comments like yours help.

I can assure people she will have a happy loving home with good food, check up and excercise (within reason at her young age).

I do look forward to being on the opposite end of this conversation in the future telling people not to do it and so on (and getting annoyed when people dont listen as im sure people have with me - i do sympathies with how annoying people are getting and where they are coming from).

Please await the "why is my puppy crying" "Toilet training HELP" threads in the near future no doubt lol


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I really really am not trying to kick you when your down I'm not and sorry if I sound like I am, but who is Lola? I doubt it's the pup you paid the deposit on  I'd love to be able to think the best of people and think everyone is above board and doing it for the love of animals, but human nature ain't that good! Do you know what see those people that did message you, shame on them for not supporting you in public! That just makes my mind boggle oops breeders will always plead ignorance! Have to say good for you for having the balls to stand up for what you think is right shame on them for not standing with you if they think what they did was right!


I think a couple did post on here but then said some other things in private too. Sure they had there reasons - i wouldnt like to force anyone to comment on my behalf, although i appreciate all comments and help, good and bad!I really honestly dont believe the situation is "right" its a minefield and by no means what i envisioned but i do believe by taking her home is right... for us. I hope its a happy ending but life in general dont have many of them unfortunately


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Im going to go to bed now guys, early morning ahead of me.

Again thanks for ALL comments, cant believe there are soooo many.
Try not to hate me and judge me im not that bad i promise 

Night all


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> MY GOD. Free to good home? Now im not smart at this, wel better now, but this is a joke, NO caring dog owner is going to trust there pedigrees and free!! And brown isnt a lab colouring again someone should flag that up and also a few look black or is that my eyes ?


I'm assuming the "brown" is chocolate.

There is no indication of the age of the pups - possibly this breeder has tried to make a quick buck and got stuck with the litter. I hope they've learned a lesson and don't breed again, but sadly it's the puppies that will suffer as they could end up anywhere.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I would just like to say that I am definitely insulting Nicki (Lexilou2) but she also definitely deserves it!! 

Just for interest as well, black Labradors tend to have undercoats that are either a red/brown, or grey colour, which can give an appearance of a shade of brown overall. Obviously they're registered as black, or should be.


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## Westy (Feb 19, 2013)

_money is to little around here that £250.00 is too much for me to walk away from_

Sorry but with the knowledge that you now have, I can't begin to see why you would pay more money to these people!

Just the high rate insurance for the rest of her life is enough to keep you poor and the grief that looking after a long term sick dog is unquantifyable.

The only logical plan is to walk away and start saving again - it will cost far less money and worry in the long run. And if you can't explain that to OH then you have more problems than just a badly bred puppy! :sad:


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Westy said:


> Just the high rate insurance for the rest of her life is enough to keep you poor and the grief that looking after a long term sick dog is unquantifyable.


But surely that is the same for ANY dog regardless of where it has been bought from or indeed rescued?

Insurance polices are high, virtually every dog (and cat owner for that matter) I know who has insurance has complained about the cost going up, does not seem to matter what the origins of the dog are, still the cost seems to be an issue.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

3dogs2cats said:


> But surely that is the same for ANY dog regardless of where it has been bought from or indeed rescued?
> 
> Insurance polices are high, virtually every dog (and cat owner for that matter) I know who has insurance has complained about the cost going up, does not seem to matter what the origins of the dog are, still the cost seems to be an issue.


Actually for Labradors, it is quite high. I don't insure my dogs as I'm lucky enough to have a good job and pay vets bills up front. It has worked out to be cheaper for me overall, but I wouldn't recommend it if you haven't got a good bank balance. There are a lot of badly bred Labradors, KC registrations alone about 7 years ago were approx 45,000 from memory, that figure has dropped, but when you consider there will probably be about the same amount unregistered, so let's say a good 60,000 Labradors per year to be on the safe side, how many of those will be insured, and go on to have a problem where their owners claim on their insurance policy? Then look at how many other breeds and cross breeds are insured, statistically, Labradors are going to be very high, and so will the number of claims because there are simply more of them. In the same way, the highest number of dog bites are by Labradors. So the OP is setting themselves up for a larger insurance bill, and possibly quite a bit of heart ache with a pup from parents that haven't had the relevant health tests. Morally there is no difference supporting any poor breeding practices, but financially, it can make a difference depending on the breed, hope that makes sense.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

To clarify the question on seasons, it is fairly obviously that your bitch is in season, for most people, especially at 7 as she will have cycled fairly regularly since about 12 months old.

Nala for example bled, for 4 weeks solid, not text book but obviously in season, other dogs i know even with out the heavy bleeding are obviousl yin season, their bits swell and double in size, alot of the tim there are changes in personality and various other things, but the biggest indication would have been the dog, and entire dog around a bitch in season, unless impecabley trained, would be pretty much uncontrolable, especially if never mated before, he would be pretty much constantly trying to mount the bitch, and if before shes ready, would have got a good old telling off from her. I know of dogs that cry constantly around bitches in heat, chatter their teeth, drool, won't eat won't sleep, it can make them quite ill, so fo rhte guy to say he wasn't aware, I'm sorry I don't beleive it, I honestly think hes having you on, and for her to whelp her first litter at 7 with no complications she was either very very lucky or its not her first litter.
Also 7 is a large litter, from 6 or 7 weeks you can see the puppies moving inside mum, so again he either pays very little attention to his dogs or he knew she was pregnant.
Anyway whats done is done i suppose, but thought i'd explain the above just so you knew for reference.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

I shall repeat myself once more i guess in terms of my financial state of affairs. I wouldnt willkngly walk away from that amount of money - no. Could i live without it - yeah. I have along with my family choose to follow thru our decision. And not leave Lola. Insurance wise - as its been said it will always rise/ be dearer for a Lab. Ive chosen a Lab therefor insurance would be the same (starting quote) regardless of where shes from.

I understand tests lower health risks or at least help me choose better- it doesnt entitle me to relax knowing my dog will be healthy though, so i guess it could be argued that deciding on a Lab before even meeting Lola - i have to be prepared for any hiccups or health issues, again im not disreguarding relevent tests are important im just stating i would have all the same worries no matter where i go. As its a breed quality to be considered *hips/eyes etc*.

I have made my choice and i am doing the right thing FOR ME this time around. Would i put myself thru this again? Absolutely not. Do i hope its a reasonably happy ending? Of course. But this is where ive found myself now - and will go on doing as we set out to do and love our little pup reguardless BUT i can only encourage people not to follow suit. Its been emotional and stressful and like a lot have said weve became attached quickly. I cannot save every dog and can only offer my best love and care, within my means. In future i look forward to experiencing, first hand , a reputable breeder and then maybe i can look back and realise the difference in my experience just now. I am by no means exusing OR claiming there is no other ending to this story i am meerly stating this is the ending we have chose.

Thank you


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Just for info, because there will be so many more people reading this thread, but when you look at health tests there are actually some guarantees. I can guarantee for example, that none of the pups I bred, will develop any of three known genetic conditions, those are PRA, CNM and EIC, at worst, they could be *carriers* for the latter two, but will all be *clear* for the former. 

There are no guarantees for hips, elbows and eyes generally speaking, but having looked as far back through the pedigree of my bitch, and the dog, and looking at what he's producing, and similarly bred dogs, statistically speaking, I can say that problems seem to be few and far between. There were a couple of blips in Tau's pedigree, but nothing that makes me think there's a worrying pattern or high incidence of problems, same for the other information I looked at as regards to the breeding of the litter. 

You can't guarantee a dog will be perfectly healthy, but a good breeder will hopefully research and breed away from any problems. That's what you're not getting with this pup, which you know, but it's worth pointing out for the sake of other people reading who won't consider all the effort that goes into researching before breeding. 

For info, I've started a new thread regarding possibly breeding from my flatcoat bitch and you'll see there the sort of things I'll consider and look at if I go ahead, including information on the health tests. The other aspect which can affect health is conformation, dogs that aren't structurally correct can develop health problems simply because of how they are built. That can be as simple as a dog that's not sound, ie doesn't move correctly because it simply isn't built right, to one that has more serious issues, such as cruciate problems from incorrect angulation of their stifle, or knee joint, which is often a bilateral condition. And of course a good breeder would also consider temperament and ability as well as all the health and conformation aspects, so there really should be a lot of considerations going on in the mind of a breeder.


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## Westy (Feb 19, 2013)

_i am meerly stating this is the ending we have chose._
But you have made your decision on incomplete/incorrect beliefs.

_Ive chosen a Lab therefor insurance would be the same (starting quote) regardless of where shes from._
That's true but the difference is the number of time you may need to claim and then how many excesses you will have to pay. And each time you claim, the next annual premium will increase.

A good breeder will be breeding for health generally, not just the known problems that they can test for and so the chances of buying a healthy puppy is greater.
A good breeder will also be at the end of the phone with experience and knowledge about raising a puppy and dogs in general and because this is your first puppy (I'm unsure but as you knew no better about how to buy a puppy I'm thinking it might be?) then this too can help you avoid problems with health and behaviour. For example environment and nutrition are great influences on the possibility of dogs developing hip dysplasia. You will get none of that support from these people.

Buying a badly bred puppy is the easy bit. It's from that day on that the problems start!


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> *Just for info, because there will be so many more people reading this thread, but when you look at health tests there are actually some guarantees. I can guarantee for example, that none of the pups I bred, will develop any of three known genetic conditions, those are PRA, CNM and EIC,*


Just highlighting this as it seems to get overlooked a lot.


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## maxandskye (Jan 31, 2009)

LolaPup2013 said:


> There not, hes had the mother for 7 years and the male only for 2-3years. He showed me photos of them as pups and his paperwork for the male.


7 yr old for a first litter ?  They could still be related ! This gets worse ... I'm OUT !


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

maxandskye said:


> 7 yr old for a first litter ?  They could still be related ! This gets worse ... I'm OUT !


I cant remember her age for defo - but regards to related it isnt the case i dont know where people got that from as i his paper work for tje male and the date he got him and he was already an adult dog wjen adopted by the way. I believe it was a rescue dog. He wasnt a puppy or fake papers they were headed paper and printed.AND photos of mum as a pup, im not sure on dads age when he was adopted but he wasnt a small puppy he was a young adult. People are assumed THEE very worst which isnt the case buy hey ho im deleted this thread and this profile as its been nothing but upsetting tbh.... thanks for the helpful knowlege i have learnt though and the well wishes too.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I cant remember her age for defo - but regards to related it isnt the case i dont know where people got that from as i his paper work for tje male and the date he got him and he was already an adult dog wjen adopted by the way. I believe it was a rescue dog. He wasnt a puppy or fake papers they were headed paper and printed.AND photos of mum as a pup, im not sure on dads age when he was adopted but he wasnt a small puppy he was a young adult. People are assumed THEE very worst which isnt the case buy hey ho im deleted this thread and this profile as its been nothing but upsetting tbh.... thanks for the helpful knowlege i have learnt though and the well wishes too.


I think you should quit while your ahead, you are making it worse much much worse, now an oops litter from a rescue? He wouldn't have papers or be entire if he came from a reputable rescue! This is like watching car crash TV it is getting worse


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I think you should quit while your ahead, you are making it worse much much worse, now an oops litter from a rescue? He wouldn't have papers or be entire if he came from a reputable rescue! This is like watching car crash TV it is getting worse


NOOOOO!! if youd effing read my comments! Jesus i can speak better with my son!

Lolas DAD - Adopted from a rescue when he was a young adult.
Lolas MUM bought as a puppy.

They have bred and had puppies including Lola.

Therefor there not related. Why dont u take the ******* dogs on jeremy kyle and hook them up for DNA tests and lie dectectors and its makes nothing "worse" for me love as i dont over analaysis whats going on im not a control freak - i know how this has went and what the breeders like and im happy with my choice!

Some people are bloody control freaks who NEED statistics and things to comfort them. I however will in future but in this time as a first timer ill trust my instincts!

Have a good day ya"lll


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaPup2013 said:


> NOOOOO!! if youd effing read my comments! Jesus i can speak better with my son!
> 
> Lolas DAD - Adopted from a rescue when he was a young adult.
> Lolas MUM bought as a puppy.
> ...


I can read a reputable rescue will neuter a dog, and you don't get papers! I said nothing about them being related just about reputable rescues, so you have read it wrong? So to spell it out your pups father would have been neutered and had no papers! Don't swear at me or call me "Iove".


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I can read a reputable rescue will neuter a dog, and you don't get papers! I said nothing about them being related just about reputable rescues, so you have read it wrong? So to spell it out your pups father would have been neutered and had no papers! Don't swear at me or call me "Iove".


It may have been private buy then im not sure. It had his details date of birth country of birth injection dates and so on. I assumed rescue centre he never told me where he just said he got him when he was older and trained unlike mum who hes had since she was weeks old.

Rescue was my assumption but i never thought of the neutering sode. I know thats true as my mums pup (now 11) is a rescue dog and was dressed but we did get paperwork from them just basic details about her.

I wasnt swearing directly at anyone im swearing in frustration that IM still having this same conversation.

As i said in PM - peoples problem aside from BYB of course seems to be by me lining his pockets hell continue to be a git and breed again, i hope not but u all obvs know more about BYB than me, however my point is ive ALREADY lined his pockets so theres no justice in leaving her too... thats all im saying. Im not here to redisscuss how she got here or why. Shes here. And i hope her all her littermates have good new homes whove researched and no what not to do from now on and her parents are healthy and happy and dressed/neutered now.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

LolaPup2013 said:


> I cant remember her age for defo - but regards to related it isnt the case i dont know where people got that from as i his paper work for tje male and the date he got him and he was already an adult dog wjen adopted by the way. *I believe it was a rescue dog*. He wasnt a puppy or fake papers they were headed paper and printed.AND photos of mum as a pup, im not sure on dads age when he was adopted but he wasnt a small puppy he was a young adult. People are assumed THEE very worst which isnt the case buy hey ho im deleted this thread and this profile as its been nothing but upsetting tbh.... thanks for the helpful knowlege i have learnt though and the well wishes too.


If he was a rescue then using him as a stud dog is THE most unethical thing and NO rescue on this planet would be OK with that.

It is clear, painfully clear, to anyone with a brain that this breeder is a greedy git who doesn't give a f--k about the bitch, the male, or the health of the puppies.

And I think that deep down you *know* it's wrong to give your hard earned money to someone so unethical and in doing so, encourage him to carry on using this poor bitch and stud as cash cows.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

LolaPup2013 said:


> NOOOOO!! if youd effing read my comments! Jesus i can speak better with my son!
> 
> Lolas DAD - *Adopted from a rescue when he was a young adul*t.
> Lolas MUM bought as a puppy.
> ...


Shame on the breeder for using a rescue dog as a stud.

And shame on you for paying him for doing so.

It's bad enough when someone supports a backyard breeder because they genuinely don't know what they're doing.

You know and you're *still* doing it - it's appalling.

TRUE DOG LOVERS DO NOT SUPPORT, SANCTION AND ENCOURAGE UNETHICAL BREEDERS.


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## sketch (Sep 19, 2009)

maxandskye said:


> 7 yr old for a first litter ?  They could still be related ! This gets worse ... I'm OUT !


Unfortunately hunny,
Doing what is RIGHT, isn't as important, as doing what is profitable for some breeders. xxx


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

Can I ask a question as I ended up dreaming about it! 

You said that you would get the pup anyway, but in one post you used this face  saying your partner handed over the money without you knowing. (you told him to withdraw it so you don't spend it) 

But if it isn't about the money and you would still get her anyway, why are you mad that he handed over the money? If he hadn't of handed over the £200 would you walk away then? 

So it isn't about the pup, but the money being lost? You could ask for it back, the £200 isn't a deposit but payment, he would keep the deposit (assuming its £50?) and then that's all you have lost. 

Of course he will just sell her anyway to someone else. Just something that went through my mind!


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## Westy (Feb 19, 2013)

_It may have been private buy then im not sure_

You don't appear to be sure of very much at all!  And I think that you know in your heart that you're not doing the right thing by taking her.

The point is that if he still has 6 puppies aged 12 weeks to feed and look after, and 6 x 12 week old labradors would be a mightmare - that may well stop him doing this again and taking money from people as easy as taking sweets from a baby!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> If he was a rescue then using him as a stud dog is THE most unethical thing and NO rescue on this planet would be OK with that.
> 
> It is clear, painfully clear, to anyone with a brain that this breeder is a greedy git who doesn't give a f--k about the bitch, the male, or the health of the puppies.
> 
> And I think that deep down you *know* it's wrong to give your hard earned money to someone so unethical and in doing so, encourage him to carry on using this poor bitch and stud as cash cows.


If NO RESCUE ON THE PLANET is okay with it they should have neutered the dog before they rehomed him. 

Rescue doesn't always mean rescue centre, or rescue charity either, I think many people here consider their dogs 'rescues' when they take them on as adults as private rehomes.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2013)

Cannot believe this thread is still going

Think everyone has said what they needed or wanted to say, so maybe time to walk away and respect the OP's decision and leave everyone else with the thought if they are considering buying a puppy certainly not pay a lot of money up front before bringing their puppy home, all sorts of things can happen before that point, accidents, death, along with it being much easier to walk away from say a £50 deposit than one where you've almost paid for the puppy in full.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> If NO RESCUE ON THE PLANET is okay with it they should have neutered the dog before they rehomed him.
> 
> Rescue doesn't always mean rescue centre, or rescue charity either, I think many people here consider their dogs 'rescues' when they take them on as adults as private rehomes.


How do we know the breeder didn't promise to neuter the boy when he adopted him? Often that happens and the new owner signs a contract to say they will neuter. I don't know how solid these contracts are.

Ultimately, whether a rescue or private rehome/rescue, this boy shouldn't have been used as a stud, in my view. I'm simply expressing my views.


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## LolaPup2013 (Jul 5, 2013)

catlove844 said:


> Can I ask a question as I ended up dreaming about it!
> 
> You said that you would get the pup anyway, but in one post you used this face  saying your partner handed over the money without you knowing. (you told him to withdraw it so you don't spend it)
> 
> ...


I used that as i mentioned he often mishears me and/or doesnt listen to me when it suits him!

Again going in circles. So im going to request thread is closed as this is still going on.

I want to think im helping lola, if by doing that im hindering myself then so be it...

I know in my heart and head its 100% the right thing hence why ive never doubted or changed my mind. However its not something id want to go thru again.

Thanks everyone for advice though


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