# Thoughts on Lily's Kitchen Perfectly Puppy Chicken with Salmon?



## CotonBud (Mar 24, 2014)

Hello, I have decided to go with this food for my puppy. I have done some reading on ingredients and the protein debate (some say high is better while others, especially those with small/toy breeds beg to differ). This specific food is not on the dry dog food index so was wondering what everyone thought, given that the very kind person who put together the index only gave the brand a middle of the road rating. 

I am getting a Coton de Tulear, a bichon type dog. They are a small breed and don't eat much so money is not an issue. However, I am not interested in raw diet at the moment. The ingredients are below:

Ingredients: Fresh Meat 38%: Chicken 31% (24% Chicken Meat, 7% Chicken liver), Sweet Potatoes, Fresh Salmon (7%), Pea Protein, Lentils, Peas, Eggs, Chicken Fat, Chicken Gravy, Flaxseed, Clear Salmon Oil, Botanical Herbs: Alfalfa, Chickweed, Cleavers, Golden Rod, Nettles, Kelp, Dandelion Root, Burdock Root, Celery Seeds, Milk Thistle, Marigold Petals, Rosehips, Apples, Carrots, Spinach, Cranberries, Vitamins & Chelated Minerals.

Nutritional Breakdown: Protein 27%, Fat 14.5%, Fibres 3%, Ash 6%, Omega 6 2%, Omega 3 1.5%, Calcium 1.2%, Phosphorus 1%


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

I switched my dogs onto it from the likes of Acana & Orijen after 2 of my 3 dogs had some dodgy results on their bloods indicating liver & pancreas problems. The vet wanted me to switch them to one of these veterinary diets which I didn't want to do so I found a good quality food with similar fat & protein levels to the royal canin gastro low fat (or what ever it was the vet said) and Lily's kitchen was the better quality alternative I found. It also has added milk thistle which is good for the liver, and one of the dogs has been re tested after a few months on Lily's and his results had come back into the normal range.
I was a little reluctant at first as it isn't one of the highest rated foods, but if my dogs are doing well on it then that's what's important. I think the main reason the dry food isn't as highly rated as some is because it doesn't have a very high meat content compared to others


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

It's not dreadful, however it's not fabulous either.

There's not as much meat in it as it first appears. All the meats are fresh, which means once the moisture content (the average % of which I can't remember off the top of my head) is removed there will actually be much less.

I know you said the price isn't important but the amount they're selling it for on the LK website is absolutely extortionate :scared:

I feed mainly Millie's Wolfheart Countryside Mix:



> Fresh Lamb (min. 20.1%), fresh duck (min. 20.1%), duck meal (min. 17.4%),
> sweet potato( 12.39%), potato flakes (12.39%), lamb meal (min. 4.7%), rabbit meal (min. 3.4%),
> duck fat(3.35%), pea fibre(1.81%), lucerne(1.47%), vitamins and minerals(1.34%), lamb gravy(1.24%), dried apple(0.03%), carrot flakes(0.03%), spinach flakes (0.03%), lovage powder(0.03%), seaweed meal(0.03%), dried cranberry(0.03%), aniseed and fenugreek(0.03%) , mixed herbs (thyme, marjoram, oregano, parsley, sage) (0.03%), glucosamine (min. 0.01%), MSM (min. 0.01%), chondroitin sulphate (min. 0.01%), camomile powder(0.01%), burdock root powder(0.01%), peppermint(0.01%), dandelion herb(0.01%)


As you can see it has a much higher meat content, even taking into account the first two meat sources being fresh, yet the LK is almost double the price.


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## CotonBud (Mar 24, 2014)

Hi Nataliee, did the vet say that the liver/pancreas issues with your dogs were related to the high protein diet?


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

Just to add, if you're concerned about the higher levels of protein in some foods (I can't profess to know if that should be a concern for small breeds or not) you can get some high meat content but lower protein foods.

MWH ( I promise I don't work for them, I just think their foods are fabulous :blushing do a Gamekeepers Mix which is much lower in protein.


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## CotonBud (Mar 24, 2014)

Thank you, WeedySeaDragon. Do you know what the 'meal' in MWH consists of? I have read that the word 'meal' may vary from rendered meat and bone to the whole carcass. I am looking for protein that is from rendered meat only,


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

CotonBud said:


> Thank you, WeedySeaDragon. Do you know what the 'meal' in MWH consists of? I have read that the word 'meal' may vary from rendered meat and bone to the whole carcass. I am looking for protein that is from rendered meat only,


I would imagine it probably does contain connective tissues, offal and possibly bone, however fresh meat (as listed as an ingredient on dog food) can also include connective tissues and offal. I would think it's very rarely purely muscle meat.


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## CotonBud (Mar 24, 2014)

Thanks, I appreciate that with mass production, it would be impossible to guarantee muscle meat only. I'm OK with it as long as the by-products are incidental to the process and not the substantial part of the label 'meal'. 

I have already bought Lily's Kitchen, but as a first time dog owner, I am always trying to learn more about what's our there. I had a look at MWH website and it looks like a very good choice, though I notice that the feeding guideline suggests feeding a higher quantity of food than Lily's Kitchen. Any thoughts on this?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> can also include connective tissues and offal. I would think it's very rarely purely muscle meat.


The inclusion in itself isn't a bad thing. The need to eat muscle meat is mainly a human fad simply for looks, not for its nutritional value. Look elsewhere in the world, such as South Africa for example and you'll find humans eating things like "walkie talkie" which is chicken feet and heads. I feed raw (needs research to feed it and not for everyone) but that also includes connective tissue, offal and bone. Bones and cartilage contain high concentrations of glucosamine as only one nutritional reason.


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

Goblin said:


> The inclusion in itself isn't a bad thing.


I'm not suggesting it is a bad thing at all. Just pointing out that 'meat' in dog food, whether fresh or meal, is not the same thing as we class as 'meat' for human consumption i.e. purely muscle meat.


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

CotonBud said:


> I had a look at MWH website and it looks like a very good choice, though I notice that the feeding guideline suggests feeding a higher quantity of food than Lily's Kitchen. Any thoughts on this?


The feeding guidelines on any food really are just that, guidelines. You may end up feeding less or more depending on the dog in question. You can roughly use it to work out the cost per day for feeding but it may not end up being the right amount to feed an individual dog.

My old dog needed less than half the recommended amount of whatever food he was on but one of my current gang needs more.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2014)

I currently feed Lillys kitchen and Natures Menue Nuggets 


My dog does better with Lilly's kitchen chicken and duck so thats what I'm getting next. I dip into raw as an edition as my dog enjoys the variety she loves her food so I try to offer her more variety to make things more interesting.

Not all dogs can have variety due to allergies and sensative tummies. 

Previously had Taste of The Wild but I prefer large kibble peices as smaller dogs can choke on smaller kibble peices.


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## CotonBud (Mar 24, 2014)

Hi Prowl, your comment on kibble size is interesting as I have read that smaller kibble are more manageable for the little ones to chew . I haven't thought about the possibility of choking because of the small size. Have you tried Millie's Wolfheart prior to Lily's Kitchen?


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I know this is not what you asked, but just so you know, and you probably do but all lily's kitchen food whether marketed for adults or not, are suitable for puppies too. It even states on the website to put your mind at rest. That also goes for all adult dog foods, regardless of brand just feeding amounts will be greater for a puppy.

Personally kibble size for me is neither here or there for me when talking about puppies, and even adult dogs since I tend to soak all kibble so its slightly mushy.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2014)

CotonBud said:


> Hi Prowl, your comment on kibble size is interesting as I have read that smaller kibble are more manageable for the little ones to chew . I haven't thought about the possibility of choking because of the small size. Have you tried Millie's Wolfheart prior to Lily's Kitchen?


Yes its the other one that I would recomend as I know its a fairly decent sized kibble. I know that smaller kibble poses a choking hasard as I have used Taste of the wild and simpsons for two smaller dogs as training treats and both would cough o.0

Having used both Lilly's kitchen and Millies wolfheart I have found the dogs have no such problem and deem them much safer.

My theory is that a larger kibble size would mean the smaller dogs have to chew/chomp rather then gulp their food down at 90 miles an hour.

Others will probably tell you their dogs have been fine I guess every dog is different at the end of the day.


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## Nataliee (Jul 25, 2011)

CotonBud said:


> Hi Nataliee, did the vet say that the liver/pancreas issues with your dogs were related to the high protein diet?


They didn't say whether they thought the high protein diet had caused it, they just wanted me to put them on a lower protein/fat diet as it would be better on their liver. 
Regards to kibble size I have chihuahuas and they have tried all the MWH variety and some of the kibble pieces are quite big but they eat them ok, if anything they are better as they have to crunch them. With tiny kibble they have choked before, because they literally inhale it!


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## CotonBud (Mar 24, 2014)

lullabydream said:


> I know this is not what you asked, but just so you know, and you probably do but all lily's kitchen food whether marketed for adults or not, are suitable for puppies too. It even states on the website to put your mind at rest. That also goes for all adult dog foods, regardless of brand just feeding amounts will be greater for a puppy.
> 
> Personally kibble size for me is neither here or there for me when talking about puppies, and even adult dogs since I tend to soak all kibble so its slightly mushy.


Hi, I specifically chose LK's puppy food because, when compared with their normal food, it has a higher crude protein % plus glucosamine and chondroitin in the nutrients list ( I don't see these two things on their chicken & duck, for example).

I am thinking of feeding her through Kongs , as recommended by Dr Ian Dunbar. Does this method get really messy when they are mushy?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Flamingoes' pomeranian so similar size etc to a coton is on it and he loves it. Very fussy dog but he'll eat the whole bowl of this. That's the adult food though, really there's no need for puppy food especially in a small breed where there's not much concern over them growing too fast. He has had pancreas issues in the past but is fine on lily's kitchen so far.

Are there any photos anywhere of your dog? I love cotons.


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## CotonBud (Mar 24, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> Flamingoes' pomeranian so similar size etc to a coton is on it and he loves it. Very fussy dog but he'll eat the whole bowl of this. That's the adult food though, really there's no need for puppy food especially in a small breed where there's not much concern over them growing too fast. He has had pancreas issues in the past but is fine on lily's kitchen so far.
> 
> Are there any photos anywhere of your dog? I love cotons.


I think as a first time dog owner, I feel more comfortable with the puppy food's 27% protein than the 21% protein in their adult range. The difference is probably marginal, but I guess it just puts my mind at ease as I am a novice.

I am picking her up in a few days, though it feels like forever with the anticipation and excitement! I will post pictures of her very soon


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

It's overpriced, in my humble view.

There are several other foods out there which are just as good but less expensive. I suspect that with LK one is paying for their marketing campaign also...


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## CotonBud (Mar 24, 2014)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> It's overpriced, in my humble view.
> 
> There are several other foods out there which are just as good but less expensive. I suspect that with LK one is paying for their marketing campaign also...


Hi, what would be your recommendation? I have already purchased and thus plan on feeding my puppy LK Perfectly Puppy food, but would consider switching in the future to a better food.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Have you had a look at sixtar's food indexes? They can be very helpful. I feed raw but I would probably feed something like eden if I fed commercial food.


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## CotonBud (Mar 24, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> Have you had a look at sixtar's food indexes? They can be very helpful. I feed raw but I would probably feed something like eden if I fed commercial food.


Hi, yes I have but this was after I bought LK. It seems like either Millie's Wolfheart or Eden would be a good choice to switch to. As I have bought quite a few bags of LK already (enough for at least 3 months), I would like to start on it but would like to know if there are any concerns if I do decide to switch food. My puppy is on Royal Canin, changing to LK with me, and possibly changing to either MWH our Eden. Is that too many changes in 6 months for a puppy?


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