# British shorthair genetic question



## Denise Hahn (Mar 21, 2018)

is it possible for two British short hair parents both with copper eyes, to produce a blue eyed kitten?
Thanks in advance,
Denise


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

All kittens are born with blue eyes. These gradually change to their adult colour from about 7 weeks of age. It can take several weeks for the eye colour to change fully. What colour are the parents?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Is it a colour point kitten?


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## Denise Hahn (Mar 21, 2018)

Tigermoon said:


> All kittens are born with blue eyes. These gradually change to their adult colour from about 7 weeks of age. It can take several weeks for the eye colour to change fully. What colour are the parents?


Mama is white and father is bicolor blue/white. 
It is her first litter and we have a blue male that we got from this breeder and are considering one from this litter.


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## Denise Hahn (Mar 21, 2018)

spotty cats said:


> Is it a colour point kitten?


The kittens aren't born yet, just wondering if there is a chance the kittens could have blue or green eyes out of a white female and bicolor blue/white male, both with copper eyes.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Yes, it is possible. Non dominant white (all white) cats with blue eyes sometimes occur from dominant white x white spotting gene or white spotting gene X white sotting gene matings, as do odd-eyed cats.

I don't know which governing body the breeder registers with but these are not recognised under the BSH registration policy


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## Denise Hahn (Mar 21, 2018)

gskinner123 said:


> Yes, it is possible. Non dominant white (all white) cats with blue eyes sometimes occur from dominant white x white spotting gene or white spotting gene X white sotting gene matings, as do odd-eyed cats.
> 
> I don't know which governing body the breeder registers with but these are not recognised under the BSH registration policy


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## Denise Hahn (Mar 21, 2018)

What is not recognized? The mating of these two particular colors or the eye color in these cats? Thank you for your time in answering my questions
Denise


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Denise Hahn said:


> What is not recognized? The mating of these two particular colors or the eye color in these cats? Thank you for your time in answering my questions
> Denise


Read this link to the GCCF Registration policy for BSH:

https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/BSH.RegPol.Mar18.pdf?ver=2018-03-14-095618-950


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Isn't Denise Hahn in the US?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

PS are you aware there can be blood group issues in BSH and that PKD was an issue, and might still be in unregistered cats from breeders who either don't know or don't care?

https://icatcare.org/advice/cat-health/feline-blood-groups-and-blood-incompatibility

https://icatcare.org/advice/polycystic-kidney-disease


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

QOTN said:


> Isn't Denise Hahn in the US?


Judging by the spelling of certain words I'd say you were correct, so they won't be restricted by the GCCF policy.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> Judging by the spelling of certain words I'd say you were correct, so they won't be restricted by the GCCF policy.


I wonder what registry they are with?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Apologies, I had overlooked the fact this might not have been UK based  If USA, CFA are very restrictive in some respects for BSH (especially regarding the chocolate and point genes) but I have no idea how they might treat blue eyed cats (that are not white self) from this mating.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

@Denise Hahn you need a mentor.


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## Lula10101 (Aug 11, 2017)

OrientalSlave said:


> Read this link to the GCCF Registration policy for BSH:
> 
> https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/BSH.RegPol.Mar18.pdf?ver=2018-03-14-095618-950


Interesting...I was just having a look at this policy, and noticed it says a BSH van is not an acceptable parent for any BSH kitten....does anyone know why that is? Is it for breed type, or are there health concerns? I'm just curious as it seems quite unusual, and I'm not aware of anything similar for any other colour/pattern of BSH? Or have I misinterpreted it?


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## Lula10101 (Aug 11, 2017)

slight correction - it says 'blue eyed/odd eyed and All White vans and harlequins' - I read it as all white vans, but I think it means vans that are completely white...so blue eyed/odd eyed vans as well as vans that are completely white, are not suitable parents. I think....!! Which mean normal vans, that do have patches of colour on them, can be suitable parents. 

Is there a health reason for this? Is it about deafness maybe?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm guessing you mean for white cats, not for the other types on page 7. I think deafness may come into it, plus it looks like they are trying to avoid mixing white spotting (produces van) and dominant white (produces an all-white cat). Note, just a guess!

But yes, at the bottom I see the phrase you mean in note 2 and wish I knew what it really means!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Correct - the wording is slightly misleading but it does mean an all white van. The BSH Harlequin was recognised recently (and added into the existing Van class). It was decided there too not to allow blue eyed and odd eyed cats due to concerns over hearing.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> Correct - the wording is slightly misleading but it does mean an all white van. The BSH Harlequin was recognised recently (and added into the existing Van class). It was decided there too not to allow blue eyed and odd eyed cats due to concerns over hearing.


Thanks for clearing that up. But, how do you tell the difference between an all-white van and a white cat without seeing the pedigree?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Within GCCF BSH breeding the use of white self with/for bi-colour/van/harlequin breeding is almost unheard of as the RP strongly discourages it so that situation doesn't really arise....at least not with breeders who breed with the RP in mind.


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## Tashanasha (May 17, 2018)

Is it possible that a purebred blue british shorthair has hazel eyes?

As for now I live in China and we got ourselves a little fellow from some sort of pet shop here and were told that they only have british shorts (the cats aren't caged in in the shop, they seem happy and healthy and the holder is very caring).

We named the kitten Marx. He is now a bit over 3 months old and he really does look like a british shorthair, except for the eye color. So is it possible that he really is one despite his hazel eyes?

To be honest, I don't really mind the breed. It's just curiosity. The little guy couldn't be cuter ❤


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Firstly his eyes haven't finished changing colour by some distance, secondly his parents may well not have had really good orange eye colour. Without him being registered and having a pedigree he's a look-alike rather than a British Shorthair.


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## Tashanasha (May 17, 2018)

At what age should he have the final eye color?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Not sure, maybe @gskinner123 can help? She breeds BSH.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

There is no set age unfortunately. If they are going to be copper/orange they can be so at four months or not until 14 months. Much depends upon the breed lines.

A friend has always made eye colour a priority with her BSH breeding and her kittens will usually have a deep chestnut brown eye colour as early as 10 weeks which bodes well for vibrant copper eye colour. Conversely, eye colour can look like dishwater at 7 months and still turn out beautifully...but sometimes not!


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## Tashanasha (May 17, 2018)

Since reading a couple of posts in the breeding section about color inheritance I got a bit curious about something, maybe someone can help me with this.

The tabby pattern is dominant, right? So if the parents weren't tabby, the babys shouldn't be either (if I understood that correctly).

Marx' parents were solid blue (mom) and bi-color (white and blue - dad). He is mostly solid color except for a slight tabby pattern on his legs and tail. The rest of the litter was bi-colored like their dad.










Not sure how good you can see it on pictures but it is most definitely visible in real life.

So how come he has tabby markings if the parents didn't have them?

Btw, his eye color did change a lot. They are almost completely amber now, except for a green ring around the pupils.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

A lot of non-tabby cats show ghost markings which is what there are.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Tashanasha said:


> Since reading a couple of posts in the breeding section about color inheritance I got a bit curious about something, maybe someone can help me with this.
> 
> The tabby pattern is dominant, right? So if the parents weren't tabby, the babys shouldn't be either (if I understood that correctly).
> 
> ...


The genes for tabby pattern are not the same as the Agouti gene which makes a cat a tabby. All cats have tabby patterns. A cat with one Agouti gene will be a tabby and the markings will show clearly. Self cats like Marx have two Non-agouti genes which cover up the tabby patterns. With dilute and other paler colours, sometimes those tabby markings show as ghosting.


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## Tashanasha (May 17, 2018)

QOTN said:


> The genes for tabby pattern are not the same as the Agouti gene which makes a cat a tabby. All cats have tabby patterns. A cat with one Agouti gene will be a tabby and the markings will show clearly. Self cats like Marx have two Non-agouti genes which cover up the tabby patterns. With dilute and other paler colours, sometimes those tabby markings show as ghosting.


Oh, that makes sense. Thank you for the explanation :Happy


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