# Breaking news, Manchester and Cheshire Dogs Home fire/explosion



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

Sky news reporting the fire. Local knowledge on Facebook said firefighters said all animals have perished :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

Just horrendous 

Run free x


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

There's no words :crying:
Firefighters tackle blaze at Manchester Dog's Home - Manchester Evening News


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

oh no 

(is that the one where the chap went & lived in kennels to raise funds)


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Poor dogs how sad


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## ruwise (Aug 6, 2014)

Such awful news. :sad::sad:


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

Oh my word  This is horrendous, poor dogs


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Oh no  those poor dogs


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Heartbreaking :crying:


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

How dreadfully sad 

Had Sky News on for past hour - haven't seen any mention of it and can't find anything on their website either - where did you find out all the dogs had died?


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## Jackie99 (Mar 5, 2010)

Heartbreaking, those poor animals


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

SixStar said:


> How dreadfully sad
> 
> Had Sky News on for past hour - haven't seen any mention of it and can't find anything on their website either - where did you find out all the dogs had died?


From facebook, someone who lives at the bottom of the street went to help and the firefighters told her all the animals had died. Sorry I didn't put it right in the 1st post I was in shock.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Omgg, poor animals


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

Tragic!!! poor poor dogs


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Just awful


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

A _number_ of animals have been confirmed dead - no reports of _all_ and hopefully it stays that way.

Very poor practice of the firefighters to comment, if they actually have done.

Poor, poor dogs


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Everything is rumour at the moment - there is NOTHING to say that all the dogs have died, just rumour and speculation. 

It's horrible news, absolutely awful, but I think we should just wait until we hear something official before we all start presuming they're all gone. Best thing to do is hope and pray... I am not a religious person but what else can we do


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

No no no no....... poor dogs and carers of them.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Oh god. I feel sick at the thought, those poor darling dogs.
Must be devastating for the workers there.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Live: Manchester Dogs' Home fire - Manchester Evening News

43 dogs believed perished :-( Just heart breaking  and a young male arrested for arson :-(


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Male youth arrested - no words!


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## Jazmine (Feb 1, 2009)

A foster group I am part of on FB has been asked by the home to put a message out for urgent fosterers for surviving dogs... Hopefully they got some out.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Hopefully some got out and weren't too badly affected


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> Live: Manchester Dogs' Home fire - Manchester Evening News
> 
> 43 dogs believed perished :-( Just heart breaking  and a young male arrested for arson :-(


I do hope it wasn't arson. You would have to have something seriously wrong with you to do that.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

It's an extremely chaotic scene in the small suburban street off Church Lane, leading to the dogs home.

Over 100 people are currently at the scene with more arriving all the time.

Many are bringing blankets, dog food, and dog crates to take the animals to temporary shelter.

The block which was on fire was Block 5 - the shelter's medical department but the fire then spread to other kennel areas.

Members of staff - fighting back tears - have told how they cannot believe.

It is believed some dogs are still trapped in the smoke-clogged kennels.



More and more volunteers are arriving.

One witness said the fire 'engulfed' the building in seconds, quickly becoming 'a huge fireball'.

He ran back to his house to get wirecutters to try and save the dogs but by the time he returned the fire was too powerful.

Elaine Farquarson, 69, one of the home's regular supporters, said: "We are all in absolute shock. Just shock. We have rallied around with the neighbours to bring stuff that the home were asking for.

"We have brought blankets and a container and bedding."


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

"Manchester Dogs Home have confirmed 43 dogs have died in the blaze. 150 are said to have been rescued." 

rip doggies :crying:


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm so glad there are some survivors. This is just beyond dreadful. What if it turns out it _was _arson. Why would someone set fire to a dogs home FFS


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Because they're sick

Here is their donation page

https://www.justgiving.com/dogshome/


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## tattoogirl73 (Jun 25, 2011)

just heartbreaking  RIP litle ones.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

If it was arson I hope the bastard rots.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Oh no that is too awful for words. Poor dogs and poor staff members it must be heart breaking. It sounds like they have lots of supporters arriving so hopefully the saved dogs can be got to foster homes etc. There seems to be so much sad news this week :cryin:


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## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

Oh god  i don't know what to say RIP to all those doggy lives lost


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

This is unbelievable :crying: and to think someone could do this?!  WTF is wrong with some people seriously?!

RIP to those poor dogs that didn't survive


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## murphy21 (Dec 26, 2010)

What is wrong with some people?! 

Poor poor puppies  
Rip little dogs x


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Unbelievable how deranged and how callous some folk are . RIP dogs .


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

picaresque said:


> If it was arson I hope the bastard rots.


I hope he suffers like those dogs would have suffered.

People like this should be permanently removed from society


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Reports saying two men ran into the fire and managed to rescue around 20 dogs. 

Even though this appears to have been started by a human on purpose, it's nice to see the human race still has some hope in those two men.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Our reporter Amy Glendinning has this update:

Two hero dog lovers risked their lives to run into the blaze and rescue 20 dogs at the height of the fire.

Jason Dyer, 41, and his nephew Dean Rostock, 25, jumped over the fence into the dogs home and kicked open kennel doors after hearing dogs barking in panic.

Between them the pair rescued around 20 dogs, putting leads on them and bringing them to safety before tying them to a nearby fence.

They then went back to rescue others.


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## debijw (May 25, 2009)

I've posted in General chat about this, It's where we got two of our rescues from, Ozzy and Lexi. I'm so upset and if it is arson he/she wants locking up for a very long time, evil doesn't begin to describe such an abhorrent attack on kenneled animals...  :angry: :crying: :cursing:


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Hanwombat said:


> Because they're sick
> 
> Here is their donation page
> 
> https://www.justgiving.com/dogshome/


I think it must have crashed as I can't get it to work - will try again later or tomorrow.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Awful, how dreadful for anyone adopting from there too. I'd burn the little weasel.

What a sad week


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I just don't even have the words. No doubt the arsonist will get a slap on the wrist and some community service, while countless dogs have suffered horribly.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

This is just awful  

I've seen of fb that rescues (including the one I volunteer for) are prepping to take in any dogs that they can. Even though we are half the country away I won't be surprised if a few work their way down here.

Can't even begin to think what kind of human being would do such a thing???


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## ruwise (Aug 6, 2014)

The worst bit is that the sentence for damaging the property will probably be worse than the sentence for killing all those poor dogs. 

I like to see the best in people but I honestly think somebody who can do a thing like this is beyond redemption. A psychopath.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't get what sort of vile human being would do that to innocent caged animals . But he'll probably just get a slap on the wrist and maybe some community service . Then maybe in a few years when he's standing trial for murdering a human they'll realise they should have punished him much more severely.


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## Freddie and frank (Mar 26, 2012)

My god, what a sick and vile human being. 
Hope they rot in hell or worse. 

RIP to all those poor dogs. So so upsetting. 

Well I for one would find a safe place in my house should they need any foster homes for the surviving dogs. 

Such an awful week.


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## Staceyxxx (Mar 24, 2011)

I'm heartbroken  i hope this scumbag is tortured how those dogs will of been in their final moments


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

I really wish I could swear on here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!::::::::


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## MyAnimals (Aug 14, 2014)

If that boy is guilty, I hope they throw the book at him. Bastard.

How utterly devastating.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Heartbreaking all those poor poor Dogs. Can't bear to imagine how they would have suffered


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

No words - just no words. Thise poor dogs ................


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

poor dogs...beyond belief...


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Following this story in horror. It is particularly close to my heart at the moment. 
No words can explain .......


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Don't know if anyone has put this up 
https://www.justgiving.com/manchesterdogshomemen


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

rona said:


> Don't know if anyone has put this up
> https://www.justgiving.com/manchesterdogshomemen


Can anyone get this to work? Think it's perhaps crashed at the moment?

ETA - don't worry. Had been trying for ages but loaded as soon as I sent that message!


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Link for the donations page, https://www.justgiving.com/ManchesterDogsHomeMEN

Total so far £ 19,930,90 !


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

People on fb are saying it's crashed because of the sheer number of people trying to get on to donate.


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

I cant even read the reports ... 

I cannot understand the mentality of anyone who would do that and no, the punishment wont be enough to bring justice to the poor dogs who suffered ..


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

I just don't know what to say! Words just fail me right now.
R.I.P Doggies so sorry you were let down again.
You thought you were in a safe place waiting to be loved once again.
Rainbow Bridge will take care of you xx


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

https://www.justgiving.com/dogshome

This is the other page being given out by the media.


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

Can't stop thinking about this, it's just devastating. Feel so sorry for the staff as well as the poor dogs, I know I'd be beyond heartbroken if something happened to the animals at work. :crying:
As for the suspected arsonist, there are just no words. What a monster. 

The JustGiving page crashed on me a few minutes ago but worked after a couple of tries, it's somewhat uplifting to know that so many people are donating.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

All dogs are going to the Warrington Branch, they have the transport sorted but need blankets, food, beds etc. 

One of our local small animal rescues is collecting and taking donations of much needed items to Warrington in the morning. I've had a clear out and taken all spare collars/leads/beds/toys to them. It seems so little, but many small acts together can make a difference.

I agree that if the lad is guilty of arson it is a heinous thing to do deliberately. I understand emotions run high when innocent animals are harmed but violence is never the answer IMO. Arson is taken very seriously and the full weight of the courts will be used against him, also he can be prosecuted for multiple counts of deliberate animal cruelty. If we all take the law into our own hands then chaos and anarchy will ensue, resulting in more violence, harm and personal tragedies.


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

If it was arson, then why would anyone do that to a dogs home? I just don't understand, why?


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## agrumpycow (Dec 14, 2010)

Unbelievable.

BBC News - Arson arrest of boy, 14, as dogs killed in Manchester kennels fire


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

I just feel so sick and distraught....no words can describe how I feel, DEAR LORD!!! what the heck is happening!!!


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## Dobermutt (Jan 22, 2014)

This is absolutely devastating - a friend of mine lives in Cheshire and actually had a dog from here. It really is heartbreaking. The dogs must have been absolutely terrified, it just doesn't bear thinking about. :crying: I despair. If this is arson - I truly hope justice is served for these dogs.  Rest in peace.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I do hope the police/justice system take it very seriously, but also that mental health professionals are involved. This has to be a seriously disturbed person and if they want to lower the risk of him offending again then there will be need to be serious work done.

Vigilante justice or calling for it does nothing, much as most of us would like to see him burn as the poor dogs did. Just be glad they managed to save so many


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## CaninoAnimalRescue (Oct 8, 2012)

Hope people don't mind I have put this in its own thread too but just wanted to make sure that everyone has seen it. I've tried to cover all budget ranges and brands etc as I don't know much about dog products. Any suggestions welcome and just so everyone knows anything bought on the wishlist gets sent directly to them, not to me and forwarded on so there's no middle man or anything 

Amazon.co.uk

Just thought it might help to tide them over until the insurance etc is sorted, thank you all xxx


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

It's being reported that two local men went in and saved twenty of the dogs, and tens of thousands has been raised on Just Giving. So many acts of bravery and kindness in response to such a shitty thing.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who's been making an extra fuss of their dogs tonight


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## Sophie89 (Aug 18, 2014)

RIP all those dogs that died last night. Run free at rainbow bridge.


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

That's heartbreaking


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## shinra (Aug 9, 2013)

Ugh absloutely dreadful. I had a friend in that area, such trouble with arson attacks even had a block of stables brnt to the ground on her yard, the police seem to be aware of whom do these things but it appears until a human is actually killed not much is done! Humans get more feral and evil by the day


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

£129,982 raised now.


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## branwen (Nov 27, 2013)

This is so sad.....those poor dogs :sad:
What an evil little Ba****d he is.


RIP sweet dogs.


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## Yourgifts Ourgifts (Apr 12, 2009)

Never shocks me how evil people can be..poor..poor dogs...But i bet it will end up that the little Bast--d HAD A BAD CHILHOOD.. and thats to blame..:


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

53 dogs confirmed dead now but there could be more :crying:


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## Yourgifts Ourgifts (Apr 12, 2009)

News now saying over 60 dead..


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

The boy arrested is 14 apparently ....at 14 you* know* the damage that fire causes ....set fire to a dustbin or to an empty garage if you want to see the flames ...but to a *kennels. *. That's wilful murder of those dogs.

How heartbreaking for all the staff.

J


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## j4nfr4n (Mar 10, 2013)

It is beyond belief that anyone especially someone as young as 14 could even think of doing something as sick as this.
Run Free all you lovely dogs play together. Never to be hurt again xx


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Apologies if someone has already put this on. We can all help even if we don't live in Manchester.
https://www.justgiving.com/dogshome/


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

A JustGiving account set up by the Manchester Evening News has raised £223,000 in the space of 12 hours just shows how the public can be touched by this dreadful crime and more donations coming in each hour RIP poor dogs


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## blossomsuz (Jun 18, 2013)

I got my first ever dog from there. They do an amazing job.
I was so shocked to read this last night. 
I hope if that lad is found guilty of arson he is punished severely!

I have donated this morning. Big well done to all the rescuers, fire and police men and locals and not so locals who took supplies and offered help and all who have donated, through the tragedy we have shown that we are actually a nation of animal lovers and hopefully they can rebuild a better facility to help more dogs in the future. 

RIP to all the furrybabies to passed on to the bridge last night, fun free little ones xx


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I heard on radio this morning a 14 year old was arrested for arson....can't really seeing him receiving the sentence he deserves simply cos of his age.

I can't begin to imagine how I would have felt if one of my children had done something so vile at age 14...or any other time.

Poor dogs. Poor service personnel having to deal with all this.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

Poor babies.. 

It was heartbreaking to read this. 

Unfortunately I dont believe that the youth who was arrested will get more than a smack on the wrist for this.


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## debijw (May 25, 2009)

shirleystarr said:


> A JustGiving account set up by the Manchester Evening News has raised £223,000 in the space of 12 hours just shows how the public can be touched by this dreadful crime and more donations coming in each hour RIP poor dogs


Its now over £400.000 the generosity of people is amazing.


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

Obviously it's brilliant that there are so many donstions and people offering to foster but is no one else a bit disappointed that it takes such a catastrophic event for it to happen? There are seemingly hundreds of people offering to take dogs that normally wouldn't be bothered helping even though the help is always needed.

Those poor dogs.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

some pictures here of the food and blankets donated

BBC News - Manchester Dogs' Home blaze: Death toll reaches 60


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

sharloid said:


> Obviously it's brilliant that there are so many donstions and people offering to foster but is no one else a bit disappointed that it takes such a catastrophic event for it to happen? There are seemingly hundreds of people offering to take dogs that normally wouldn't be bothered helping even though the help is always needed.
> 
> Those poor dogs.


I don't really look at it like that no. Most people do what they can when they can. I have a couple of rescues I support on a regular basis then lots of others I give to when there is a special appeal. I can't foster but if this was my local rescue and they needed short term help then I would try my best or else perhaps pay for kennel fees for one or two dogs. I think its great that so many people came forward to help.


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## kateh8888 (Aug 9, 2011)

So so sad.


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## MyAnimals (Aug 14, 2014)

What possesses a 15 year old boy to do such a terrible thing? It makes you wonder what troubles the boy has had throughout his life to make him act in such a wicked way. I'm not excusing it, it's a terrible thing that he's done (if he is guilty..), but the whole idea of it makes me feel very very sad for all involved. Such a tragedy.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

MyAnimals said:


> What possesses a 15 year old boy to do such a terrible thing? It makes you wonder what troubles the boy has had throughout his life to make him act in such a wicked way. I'm not excusing it, it's a terrible thing that he's done (if he is guilty..), but the whole idea of it makes me feel very very sad for all involved. Such a tragedy.


he could have come from a perfectly good family too....and even if he had a really bad childhood, its no excuse and he needs punishing.

we all have choices in life...he chose to do this.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

I hadn't heard about this until this morning, its just hearbreaking



AJ600 said:


> Poor babies..
> 
> It was heartbreaking to read this.
> 
> Unfortunately I dont believe that the youth who was arrested will get more than a smack on the wrist for this.


I am not so sure, arson is usually sentenced quite harshly isn't it - believe the dogs home is in a residential area so it will be taken into account the risk to the people as well.

Even if he doesn't get the sentence he deserves he has surely ruined his life (and probably his family's too) - he will never be able to show his face to all he knows, be looking over his shoulder for ever and hiding who he really is - once people know what he did at best they will have nothing to do with him


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

DoodlesRule said:


> I hadn't heard about this until this morning, its just hearbreaking
> 
> I am not so sure, arson is usually sentenced quite harshly isn't it - believe the dogs home is in a residential area so it will be taken into account the risk to the people as well.
> 
> Even if he doesn't get the sentence he deserves he has surely ruined his life (and probably his family's too) - he will never be able to show his face to all he knows, be looking over his shoulder for ever and hiding who he really is - once people know what he did at best they will have nothing to do with him


Sorry just very cynical these days.


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## ruwise (Aug 6, 2014)

MyAnimals said:


> What possesses a 15 year old boy to do such a terrible thing? It makes you wonder what troubles the boy has had throughout his life to make him act in such a wicked way. I'm not excusing it, it's a terrible thing that he's done (if he is guilty..), but the whole idea of it makes me feel very very sad for all involved. Such a tragedy.


I quite agree. There are 2 tragedies here. We all know how animals need to be socialised and loved and cared for to be good pets and we all take that responsibility very seriously or else we wouldn't spend so much time on a pet forum. The truth is children need to be socialised as well, they need to be taught morals, to love and be loved. My husbands cousin works in this area providing education to young adult just a little bit older than this kid and sadly there are a lot of kids who have not grown up in loving, caring homes, who have been beaten and abused.

There is always outrage when there is a baby P type case in the news. Well the sad fact is the ones who slip through the system and there are 1000's can grow up to be very problematic teenagers and adults. They may not do something this bad but they become your muggers, drug pushers, join gangs. Maybe there should be a breeding programme for humans as well. I don't know the answers to the situation as it is such a complex problem but I have to say once a person goes onto committing such a horrible crime against defenceless dogs I do wonder if it is even possible to save them.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

ruwise said:


> Maybe there should be a breeding programme for humans as well.


plus one!!!


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## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

It's just too horrible to contemplate, really  The pic of the scared wee staff with the firefighter just makes me tear up every time I see it.

But at least the amazing levels of support from people all over the country shows that the good really do massively outnumber the bad.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

ruwise said:


> The truth is children need to be socialised as well, they need to be taught morals, to love and be loved.


Whilst I understand your thoughts we have to accept that blaming "circumstances" should never be used to avoid consequences of actions performed by an individual.


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## AnimalzRock (Jul 2, 2014)

DoodlesRule said:


> I hadn't heard about this until this morning, I am not so sure, arson is usually sentenced quite harshly isn't it - believe the dogs home is in a residential area so it will be taken into account the risk to the people as well.


Although MDH is in a residential area, it has plenty of land surrounding it which separates it from housing, so the fire was never a danger to human life.

Very sad. Like the place wasn't enough of a hell hole.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Sorry if this has already been posted, from the Pets at Home FB page:

Manchester & Cheshire Dogs' Home - UPDATE PART 1

We've been in touch with the team at ‪#‎ManchesterDogsHome‬ and offered our full support during this tragic time. First off is the below, with more info to follow later in the day:

1. ALL stores will serve as collection points for any product donations you wish to make (food, bedding, toys etc).
2. Donations - all stores will be taking monetary donations, which will go directly to the rescue from today until close of play Friday 19th or you can donate directly at https://www.justgiving.com/dogshome
3. We've been told they're struggling with collars and leads, so we're sending them a full batch of collars and leads for the dogs.

As and when it becomes clearer what else they need, we'll support in whatever way we can to ensure the best for the dogs in their care. We'll keep you all updated over the next day or two.

Our nominated charity, Support Adoption For Pets are also holding an emergency trustee meeting to look at supporting through their Grant Award Scheme. More information will come through later.

Chris @ Pets at Home


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

How terrible, those poor poor dogs, they must have been so scared.
How could anyone do anything like that, let alone a boy, I hope he gets what he deserves, but I very much doubt it.

Run free at the bridge little darlings, where no one can hurt you ever again. God bless.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Even thinking about those poor dogs' final minutes makes me physically ill .

A nightmare. Truly tragic.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

This is so sad. I can't stop crying. Those poor dogs that lost their lives in horrendous circumstances. 

Thinking of all the staff and a big thank you to staff, fire and police sevice, RSPCA, vets and members of the public who assisted in rescuring the dogs.

I hope they throw away the key for the person who is responsible for this.


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## Canarie (Sep 4, 2013)

Hi,
All details about the appalling news can be found on BBC News and The Daily Mail.If you go on JustGiving website you can donate to The Manchester Dogs' Home.......

Canarie


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

A member on here with Mals works there, she was in bits after helping last night. 

No understanding why a kid would do such a terrible thing, people in the area will know who he is and I fear for the family's safety. No sympathy for him, none whatsoever regardless of how he was raised, at his age he must have known what cruelty and devestation he would be causing.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Every time i read something about this i am in tears again, i cant bear thinking about how those poor dogs have suffered, and the ones who got out how traumatised they will be, 
Those two men who rescued some of the dogs by kicking open the kennel doors deserve a medal, they tried to get to the others but the fire drove them back, i heard a lady on the news this mornig sobbing as she told what it was like there, 
I dont think that lad will get the punishment he decerves, for animal cruelty the punishment is disgustingly small, maybe the arson will make it harsher, 
He is at an age where he knows[or should] know right from wrong,and i dont care how young he is its murder, pure and simple 
RIP beautiful babies,


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## debijw (May 25, 2009)

Aerial shot from a video on the MEN page showing the devastation caused by the fire. My OES was in one of those kennels that were destroyed.









Donations now standing at over £650.000 Incredible


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

More recent updates said about 50 had and 150 were saved?

With the social media vigilante's around these days he'll get what's coming to him. There'll be some teen from his area who can't resist bragging they know he is on FB. Twitter or something. I wouldn't be surprised to hear his house was the next on fire or they set fire to him if he's let off with no punishment. They'll probably put him in prison or a juvenile centre for his protection with all stuff going on on FB and Twitter that he wants burning too etc. They might even give him a new identity if they really feel that people will carry out threats put on FB, Twitter etc.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

IncaThePup said:


> More recent updates said about 50 had and 150 were saved?
> 
> With the social media vigilante's around these days he'll get what's coming to him. There'll be some teen from his area who can't resist bragging they know he is on FB. Twitter or something. I wouldn't be surprised to hear his house was the next on fire or they set fire to him if he's let off with no punishment. They'll probably put him in prison or a juvenile centre for his protection with all stuff going on on FB and Twitter that he wants burning too etc. They might even give him a new identity if they really feel that people will carry out threats put on FB, Twitter etc.


FB and twitter are not the judge and jury on this though and the boys family do not deserve to have their house burnt down because of this boys stupid and cruel behaviour. If they are not careful they will make any trial unsafe and then he may get away with it altogether. Why don't people concentrate on helping


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

IncaThePup said:


> More recent updates said about 50 had and 150 were saved?
> 
> With the social media vigilante's around these days he'll get what's coming to him. There'll be some teen from his area who can't resist bragging they know he is on FB. Twitter or something. I wouldn't be surprised to hear his house was the next on fire or they set fire to him if he's let off with no punishment. They'll probably put him in prison or a juvenile centre for his protection with all stuff going on on FB and Twitter that he wants burning too etc. They might even give him a new identity if they really feel that people will carry out threats put on FB, Twitter etc.


If he's guilty then what the little B........... needs is punishment that befits the suffering he inflicted on all those defenceless Dogs. Years of Hard labour would be a good start like the South African Government inflicted on people Nelson Mandella, rock bashing day in and day out for years to come.

We are far too soft on Crimes of this nature in this country and its about time the Government recognised this and did something about it.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> FB and twitter are not the judge and jury on this though and the boys family do not deserve to have their house burnt down because of this boys stupid and cruel behaviour. If they are not careful they will make any trial unsafe and then he may get away with it altogether. Why don't people concentrate on helping


I know.. I'm just saying there are alot of comments on many different FB pages (Not sure about Twitter I don't use it) running along the lines of 'he wants setting fire to' and or saying their in the area and will post his name if they find out who he is etc.

I think they don't realise if police etc see threat as serious they could give him a new identity cos of his age like they do with child murderers? (kids who kill I mean).

Anyway I was saving up for an iphone but donated the entire amount to them for the dogs, hope it helps some of them.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

Whether or not he has had a bad childhood it dosent give him the right or the excuse to set fire to a dogs home. he knew the devestation he was causing and should be punished accordingly, i truely hope they throw the book at him, hard! Bet he will only get a slap on the wrist. If he was my child i would be livid and make him help rebuild the home he single handedly destroyed in his heartless stupidity. 

Rip to the many dogs who died last night and through the morning because of some 'child' who was probably bored. You are in everyones thoughts. Xx
to the dogs who survived, get better soon, and i hope this wont ruin your chances of finding another home. Xx
To those who have donated and fostered these dogs, well done. Xx


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## LouLatch (Jul 2, 2012)

Posted this on the thread in general chat too but I know some people don't venture over there. This is going round FB (you may have seen it) but tis worth a shot.

DIY SOS .... email them to [email protected]

Put.. MANCHESTER CHESTER DOGS HOME REBUILD as the subject

The more that email the more chance of getting the rebuild free and fast ... fab suggestion from one of our followers.

EMAIL and SHARE the post


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

Just unspeakable 

Am ashamed to be human today.


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## m4tth3w (Jan 12, 2012)

I've just donated - please do also. If everyone gave a bit then they will get back on their feet sooner rather than later.

https://www.justgiving.com/4w350m3/donation/direct/charity/71787#MessageAndAmount


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

A great article on apportioning blame. It's very true IMO and supports what many people on here call for every day.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

BBC News - Manchester Dogs Home: Why is the fundraising so successful?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Muze said:


> Just unspeakable
> 
> Am ashamed to be human today.


When I first heard about what had happened, and thought of all those poor dogs, and that despicable boy who started the fire, I felt that way too.

But then I read about the two heroes who went back into the fire again and again to rescue dogs, and heard about the people who went to Manchester with blankets, beds, bowls, food etc last night, and when I see all the help that is being given by people through online donations and petitions, and when I read all over facebook and on here how people are shocked and horrified, it makes me realise that it's wrong to blame the whole human race just because one sorry example of a human being caused such horror.

I still cry when I think of the dogs and what they went through - but I'm no longer ashamed to be human.

RIP all you wonderful dogs - and blessings to everyone who cares, who has donated, who has helped in any way xxx


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## ps60 (Aug 1, 2010)

So apparently he's 15 years old and doesn't know the difference between right and wrong. A good Singapore-style thrashing would certainly make him learn the difference. If we want to rid ourselves of the yob and thug culture here in Britain, following Singapore is the way to go. When my grandparents were 15 years old, they were working, and had been working since they were 14. People are expected (or it seems *were* expected) to know the difference between right and wrong before they start school. We have far too many do-gooders around who will excuse anything, however heinous, for our own good. Those poor dogs deserve justice to be done, and the scumbag responsible should never be allowed to hide behind anonymity. We want to know who he is.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> When I first heard about what had happened, and thought of all those poor dogs, and that despicable boy who started the fire, I felt that way too.
> 
> But then I read about the two heroes who went back into the fire again and again to rescue dogs, and heard about the people who went to Manchester with blankets, beds, bowls, food etc last night, and when I see all the help that is being given by people through online donations and petitions, and when I read all over facebook and on here how people are shocked and horrified, it makes me realise that it's wrong to blame the whole human race just because one sorry example of a human being caused such horror.
> 
> ...


Indeed, it wonderful to see such an outpouring of love and generosity 

Let's hope it will smother out the hate and anger that caused the tragedy xx


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

One article said the boy had recently been attacked by a dog .... still not a excuse to "normal" child.


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## ps60 (Aug 1, 2010)

Pointermum said:


> One article said the boy had recently been attacked by a dog .... still not a excuse to "normal" child.


I wonder how he got attacked by a dog. Was he trespassing or trying to break into somebody's house, or did he hit it?


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

There's a lot of hear'say flying around, including a couple of names on Twitter/FB. 

Another source said they'd been refused a dog, another said he was sick of the barking, another said he was Muslim who hated dog etc etc etc... I would wait for reliable information from proper sources... there are A LOT of very angry people speculating via social media right now


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

I have heard some of the worst comments regarding this...people saying that the money should have been raised for a 'human' cause. My Dad was amongst these people who appear to think the £1 million + raised could be better spent on other, apparently more 'important' matters throughout the world  

This just made me more angry  These dogs and this shelter need help, and people can say this  It's actually amazing what dog lovers can do when they come together!


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Muze said:


> There's a lot of hear'say flying around, *including a couple of names on Twitter/FB. *
> 
> Another source said they'd been refused a dog, another said he was sick of the barking, another said he was Muslim who hated dog etc etc etc... I would wait for reliable information from proper sources... there are A LOT of very angry people speculating via social media right now


Where does it give his name?


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> Where does it give his name?


It's best not to share these things , it can get people in big trouble.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Its amazing how over a million has been raised - such ashame it was under such sad circumstances.


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## AnimalMad88 (Jan 27, 2014)

Pointermum said:


> One article said the boy had recently been attacked by a dog .... still not a excuse to "normal" child.


Completely agree. Of course if he was attacked by a dog then that is really sad, but in NO way does that excuse what he did. He should be punished unreservedly within the full extent of the law IMHO.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

A couple of names have popped up but are quickly removed, rightly so IMO, anyone could point the finger as some young kid they dislike. 

The money continues to roll in.... the manager said they can rebuild a 'centre for the 21st century' which I think is awesome, maybe more kennels, modern facilities. 

I hope they will have a memorial to the dogs and the people who helped somewhere.


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## AnimalMad88 (Jan 27, 2014)

Muze said:


> The money continues to roll in.... the manager said they can rebuild a 'centre for the 21st century' which I think is awesome, maybe more kennels, modern facilities.
> 
> I hope they will have a memorial to the dogs and the people who helped somewhere.


Sounds brilliant re. funds and the rebuild. Here's hoping that there is a plaque or something of that nature to commemorate the dogs and all those involved in the rescue effort.


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## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

> It's great that people are turning out in droves bringing donations for the dogs who survived the fire... But seriously, what did they think these dogs ate before the fire?! Have any other rescues seen their donations increase or is it just Manchester that have seen this generosity. Come on people! *60 dogs died, and that's tragic, but 60 rescue dogs are euthanised every THREE days in this country.*
> I'm really pleased to see that people want to help and I know Manchester need extra help right now but just think, if all these tradesmen offering free services came forward to their own local rescues, if all these crates of food and thousands of pounds were donated to local rescues how much more dogs could survive every day, how these dogs could be provided with a more stimulating environment so they weren't going stir crazy in kennels to the point where they become unappealing as a pet.
> Sadly, sixty dead rescue dogs really isn't a lot when you look at the grand scheme of things.


A friend on FB posted this and I'm inclined to agree.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

JessIncaFCR said:


> I have heard some of the worst comments regarding this...people saying that the money should have been raised for a 'human' cause. My Dad was amongst these people who appear to think the £1 million + raised could be better spent on other, apparently more 'important' matters throughout the world
> 
> This just made me more angry  These dogs and this shelter need help, and people can say this  It's actually amazing what dog lovers can do when they come together!


All who gave decided that this was and is a good cause and gave money accordingly. People who think there are better causes can put their hand in their own pocket and give to those causes if they so wish. They don't however have the right to tell the rest of us what we should be doing with the money we remove from ours.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

ps60 said:


> I wonder how he got attacked by a dog. Was he trespassing or trying to break into somebody's house, or did he hit it?


The boy who was attacked by a dog in January in the same area as the dogs home that everyone is talking about, was walking down the street when a big dog attacked him without provocation. When a woman came to his aid it turned on her and was only stopped by a man with a carving knife who stabbed it to death  Lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story though eh?



sharloid said:


> A friend on FB posted this and I'm inclined to agree.


There's a big difference between being humanely euthanised and dying in fear and pain from smoke inhalation though isn't there?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

metaldog said:


> There's a big difference between being humanely euthanised and dying in fear and pain from smoke inhalation though isn't there?


Putting a dog down due to illness is humane euthanisation. Simply as it's unwanted or because it looks a certain way is killing it and denying it potentially a long happy life in other circumstances. Humanely euthanised is just a comfort phrase to make us feel better about it. It shouldn't be necessary in an "animal loving country".


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

sharloid said:


> It's great that people are turning out in droves bringing donations for the dogs who survived the fire... But seriously, what did they think these dogs ate before the fire?! Have any other rescues seen their donations increase or is it just Manchester that have seen this generosity. *Come on people! 60 dogs died, and that's tragic, but 60 rescue dogs are euthanised every THREE days in this country.*
> I'm really pleased to see that people want to help and I know Manchester need extra help right now but just think, if all these tradesmen offering free services came forward to their own local rescues, if all these crates of food and thousands of pounds were donated to local rescues how much more dogs could survive every day, how these dogs could be provided with a more stimulating environment so they weren't going stir crazy in kennels to the point where they become unappealing as a pet.
> Sadly, sixty dead rescue dogs really isn't a lot when you look at the grand scheme of things.
> 
> A friend on FB posted this and I'm inclined to agree.


So what would your freind on fb rather have happened - that people did not get together to help the rescue centre to look after the dogs that survived? People donated money and items to* help* *the survivors to be looked after until they can be rehomed*, not because they felt sorry for the victims.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

Goblin said:


> Putting a dog down due to illness is humane euthanisation. Simply as it's unwanted or because it looks a certain way is killing it and denying it potentially a long happy life in other circumstances. Humanely euthanised is just a comfort phrase to make us feel better about it. It shouldn't be necessary in an "animal loving country".


I think you're missing the point really.....I will rephrase for you. Can you agree that there is a big difference between between being humanely *killed*and dying in fear and pain from smoke inhalation though isn't there?


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

sharloid said:


> A friend on FB posted this and I'm inclined to agree.


I think that is terrible, comparing euthanised dogs with this tragedy, its the way they died that is different, a painful and horrific death
It is terrible too that any dog has to be euthanised, but usually painlessly, not burnt to death,so i cant agree


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I have read a few articles now that give details of his attack, which by googling doesn't take long to find the original articles on... and gives his name and a photo, and the photo matches one in other articles about him being bailed (his face is blurred but his hair is the same and you can see scars in the same place he was reported to have been attacked).

I also saw tweets from that Jack P Shepherd, sick vile comments... people are calling for him to be sacked.

It is just tragic and while it is heartbreaking for dogs to be routinely put to sleep, this was a horrible way for any animal to die... and not only that but it was deliberate... someone set out to cause as much devastation as possible. It has been reported that the fire started in three places... that shows intent. Things need to change in this country regarding over breeding and over population but that does not, and should not, lessen this tragedy.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Until this event I had no idea of the scale of how many dogs were in rescue or PTS every week. It has genuinely shocked me so much I feel guilty about having bought from a breeder now. 

I find myself wishing I'd waited longer (though I'd been looking and waiting 7 months) for a dog from Dogs Trust. However I was on the wrong track at the time as I had been looking for a small breed then and older and the Dogs Trust person said they hadn't had any in they felt could be trained to do what I needed...and that I maybe better starting with a puppy. 

I feel strongly I have to rescue the next one, if I get another after Inca as all our family pets were rescue including Inca. 

Does anyone else feel guilty about buying a puppy from a breeder after watching all this?


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> Does anyone else feel guilty about buying a puppy from a breeder after watching all this?


Nope.

There will always be rescue dogs as long as there are dogs. Some people will only get a dog from a rescue and some only from a breeder. There are different reasons for getting one from ether.


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## ruwise (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm getting my first dog from a breeder but I know my second dog will be a rescue. A lot of rescues wouldn't give a dog to a first time owner and I haven't had a dog since I was a kid. Our plan has always been get our first dog from a reputable breeder as a pup, do our training classes etc and in about 3 years time when our dog has calmed down and matured, then get another from a rescue.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> Does anyone else feel guilty about buying a puppy from a breeder after watching all this?


No, why would I. Why should I mop up after other people's mistakes and end up with the wrong dog for the wrong reasons for myself.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> Does anyone else feel guilty about buying a puppy from a breeder after watching all this?


I recently got my puppy (Archer) as I wanted to train a dog with the aim to compete in a dog sport. I do not feel guilty at all for getting a puppy, why would I?


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

IncaThePup said:


> Does anyone else feel guilty about buying a puppy from a breeder after watching all this?


No. I don't. Continually demonising *all* breeders and *all *those who choose to get their puppy from a breeder does little for dogs in rescue centres and in fact only opens the door to the many poor breeders who continue to breed without a thought for health, temperament or vetting homes and whose dogs are more likely to end up in the centre. Unfortunately.

Perhaps some of the fantastic money raised could go towards, not just state of the art housing but *education* so that new owners can understand their choices (puppy or rescue) and learn what to look out for in a breeder (should they choose a puppy) and have more understanding about the breed they get.

Rescue centres do a fantastic job but they are the broom clearing up the mess ... perhaps now we need to concentrate equally on stopping the mess in the first place.

J


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> Until this event I had no idea of the scale of how many dogs were in rescue or PTS every week. It has genuinely shocked me so much I feel guilty about having bought from a breeder now.
> 
> I find myself wishing I'd waited longer (though I'd been looking and waiting 7 months) for a dog from Dogs Trust. However I was on the wrong track at the time as I had been looking for a small breed then and older and the Dogs Trust person said they hadn't had any in they felt could be trained to do what I needed...and that I maybe better starting with a puppy.
> 
> ...


I haven't had a puppy from a breeder ever, as of yet.

However I won't rule it out in future as the breed I'm most interested in pretty much never turns up in rescue & I like the ethics of a lot of the breeders. I would like just once to experience a dog that's had the best start in life, rather like I have with my Siamese cat.

Will I feel guilty? No, because I do my bit for rescue & also the majority of my dogs are & will always be rescues.

I don't begrudge people going to breeders for their dogs, it's their choice, but if asked I advise them against going to certain sources in the hope that one day all dogs will be bred & owned by people who put care & thought into those decisions.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I still do even though there were none in rescue that could have met my needs. I don't know how much was the staff's judgement ie they thought a specific dog wouldn't be suitable because I was in a wheelchair, though alot couldn't be homed with other dogs. 

That's not to say I don't love JJ I have enjoyed having him from a much younger age, though I had Inca from 4-5 months, so he was only a couple of months younger. I just wish I could have found him from a rescue. As they do sometimes get pregnant dogs abandoned and then rehome the puppies. 

If I do get another just to be JJ's companion, it will be a rescue. I might also consider fostering then we still get time when it's just the two of us between fosters.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> Until this event I had no idea of the scale of how many dogs were in rescue or PTS every week. It has genuinely shocked me so much I feel guilty about having bought from a breeder now.
> 
> I find myself wishing I'd waited longer (though I'd been looking and waiting 7 months) for a dog from Dogs Trust. However I was on the wrong track at the time as I had been looking for a small breed then and older and the Dogs Trust person said they hadn't had any in they felt could be trained to do what I needed...and that I maybe better starting with a puppy.
> 
> ...


No because buying a puppy from a good breeder doesn't add to the rescue crisis. Just adopting won't do anything, education on where to buy a puppy ,how much care they require and what breeds suit your lifestyle will. Not that there's any excuse all that information is out there but people would rather use the internet to look at cute cats or gossip about celebs


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Blitz said:


> No, why would I. Why should I mop up after other people's mistakes and end up with the wrong dog for the wrong reasons for myself.


Whilst I don't think people should feel guilty about not taking dogs from rescue and going to a reputable breeder instead I think that statement is a little harsh. How would it be mopping up after other people's mistakes if you took on a dog where the owner had died or was in poor health/gone into a home etc.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Simon Cowell, pledes £25.000 to Manchester dogs home and £10.000 for the 2 men who savef the dogs by kicking in the kennels, also i believe Paul O Grady donated £10.000
Simon says the boy should go to prison for a very long time, and whatever punishment he gets double it, but doubts it will happen ,he says probably get a slap on the wrist, disgraceful


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

jaycee05 said:


> Simon Cowell, pledes £25.000 to Manchester dogs home and £10.000 for the 2 men who savef the dogs by kicking in the kennels, also i believe Paul O Grady donated £10.000
> Simon says the boy should go to prison for a very long time, and whatever punishment he gets double it, but doubts it will happen ,he says probably get a slap on the wrist, disgraceful


awww how nice of them to donate that much even if they can afford it its a wonderful thing to do I think


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I'd love to rescue them all, I'm sure everyone would however not every home is suitable for a rescue dog. 

Some rescues aren't suitable with other dogs or cats, or a certain gender of owner. Some rescues aren't suitable with children or people with work commitments. 

A puppy is a clean slate, you can make him or her suitable to almost any situation. 

Unfortunately I think that the sometimes overly strict rehoming policy's of some rescues put people off. I've seen fantastic homes turned down for very silly things.


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> I'd love to rescue them all, I'm sure everyone would however not every home is suitable for a rescue dog.
> 
> Some rescues aren't suitable with other dogs or cats, or a certain gender of owner. Some rescues aren't suitable with children or people with work commitments.
> 
> ...


I don`t agree with any of this.
There is a dog in rescue for anyone,it just means looking around.
going to smaller ones,or heaven forbid,waiting.

Far too many people have a "i need it now" attitude and use that as an excuse to go by a puppy,rather than rescue.

The thing to remember that dogs are in rescue for a reason,some serious,some not,and at the end of the day,rescues just want to make sure they don`t come back.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

fluffybunny2001 said:


> I don`t agree with any of this.
> *There is a dog in rescue for anyone*,it just means looking around.
> going to smaller ones,or heaven forbid,waiting.
> 
> ...


Actually not really. Unfortunately apparently there wasn't a rescue that would agree to rehome a dog or have an available/suitable dog for a young couple who have full time jobs, live in a flat and have no garden but spend every weekend hiking. For many dogs that we liked and wanted to help we were too young and inexperienced. For the breed rescue we had no breed experience.


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

hence why i said you have to look around,just as you would if you were looking for a good puppy.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

fluffybunny2001 said:


> I don`t agree with any of this.
> There is a dog in rescue for anyone,it just means looking around.
> going to smaller ones,or heaven forbid,waiting.
> 
> ...


I do agree that some people will got to one rescue & not meet the criteria then refuse to wait as they do want a dog at that very moment & any dog will do .... unfortunately I have seen this.

But ... this isn't the case for everyone. As I said in an earlier post, I would like to work towards competing in a dog sport & I need a breed with a certain drive & need to train the puppy every step to work my goal. As a novice in this I needed a puppy who would have the charateristics I wanted & the temprament. I will also need alot of training & want to do this from scrtach & learn from my own mistakes, not try & correct someone elses

Some people do want puppies & if they are getting their pups from reputable breeders then I don't see a problem ... or be it anyomne elses business.

Not every one wants a rescue dog & shouldn't be made to feel guilty for their preferences


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

not trying to make anyone feel guilty,just when people say,such and such rescue wouldn`t let me have a dog so i HAD to go buy a puppy.
They didnt have to buy a puppy,it was the easier option


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Getting back on track....

Live: Manchester Dogs' Home vigil â Latest updates as hundreds are expected to pay their respects - Manchester Evening News


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

There probably is a dog or multiple dogs in rescue to suit everyone and of course not all rescue dogs are damaged in some way but I don't see the issue with choosing to go to an ethical breeder instead.

The response to this has been amazing but it would be good if there was more education on where to get a dog and how to choose the breed/mix for you


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

fluffybunny2001 said:


> I don`t agree with any of this.
> There is a dog in rescue for anyone,it just means looking around.
> going to smaller ones,or heaven forbid,waiting.
> 
> ...


Well I disagree with this.

Not everyone is able to travel the length of the country to find a rescue theat will rehome to them.

People naturally take the path of least resistance and for many that means BYB.

Rescues need to be realistic.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

fluffybunny2001 said:


> I don`t agree with any of this.
> There is a dog in rescue for anyone,it just means looking around.
> going to smaller ones,or heaven forbid,waiting.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more. Of course its up to individuals to decide whether to go to a reputable breeder instead of a resuce and I wouldn't dream of trying to make someone feel guilty about that but so many people are impatient and want a perfect dog or puppy. I've had both myself and can honestly say my dogs from reputable breeders had just as many health problems as my rescues. Starting with a blank canvas pup is no guarantee whatsoever that they won't have behavioural issues.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

shetlandlover said:


> I'd love to rescue them all, I'm sure everyone would however not every home is suitable for a rescue dog.
> 
> Some rescues aren't suitable with other dogs or cats, or a certain gender of owner. Some rescues aren't suitable with children or people with work commitments.
> 
> *A puppy is a clean slate, you can make him or her suitable to almost any situation.*


While I do agree that rescue dogs cant all fit every niche of owner needs in a dog, I heartily disagree with the bolded. 
Its the whole its how you raise em mentality all over again. 
Its NOT all in how you raise them. Dogs are not a blank slate. They are a complex mix of genes, and breed traits, and inherent temperament, and drives, and early experiences with mum and litter mates...

Ive known dogs who could not have had more inept owners, yet the dogs still had the most amazing temperament and adaptability. Ive known dogs whos owners did everything right from day one who turned out to be basket cases.

Obviously these are the extremes, most dogs fall somewhere in the middle. But its still a matter of inherent temperament, not just how you raise em.

One of the biggest issues with this blank slate notion is that many people wont take on an adult for fear of what was put on that slate before the dog came to them. 
Like this idea that a dog has to be raised with kids to be comfortable with kids. Just like humans, some dogs are just not in to children (or puppies), and while they might tolerate them, will never really enjoy kids. When you get a puppy, you dont know if your dog is going to grow up in to one of those dogs. When you get an adult, you can tell fairly easily if the dog actually enjoys kids or merely tolerates them.

Unfortunately the blank slate myth puts people off of rescuing adults - for no good reason. Getting an adult with an already visible temperament is often a much better choice for many families looking to adopt.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

There are some gorgeous pups in Saints Sled Dog rescue atm looking for homes


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

ouesi said:


> While I do agree that rescue dogs cant all fit every niche of owner needs in a dog, I heartily disagree with the bolded.
> Its the whole its how you raise em mentality all over again.
> Its NOT all in how you raise them. Dogs are not a blank slate. They are a complex mix of genes, and breed traits, and inherent temperament, and drives, and early experiences with mum and litter mates...
> 
> ...


I agree, my puppy seems very confident & loves everything ..... I am putting alot of work in to socialising him but I think (although I am obviously inexerienced in this area!) that this is part of his make-up. All my trainers dogs are confident dogs & this (as well as the health testing) was part of the appeal.

My Roxy could have had the best start in life (although I doubt it reading her notes from the rescue) but was always going to be a stressy dog. Toby, who was never walked by his previous owners (by their own admission), not really taken anywhere, etc is also a confident, happy dog & loves new things, will try anything

I have known people almost be ashamed of themsleves that their dog has developed issues despite having lots of training & socialisation from them when a puppy.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> I agree, my puppy seems very confident & loves everything ..... I am putting alot of work in to socialising him but I think (although I am obviously inexerienced in this area!) that this is part of his make-up. All my trainers dogs are confident dogs & this (as well as the health testing) was part of the appeal.
> 
> My Roxy could have had the best start in life (although I doubt it reading her notes from the rescue) but was always going to be a stressy dog. Toby, who was never walked by his previous owners (by their own admission), not really taken anywhere, etc is also a confident, happy dog & loves new things, will try anything
> 
> *I have known people almost be ashamed of themsleves that their dog has developed issues despite having lots of training & socialisation from them when a puppy*.


I certainly did for a while. I was told ''There's no excuse for your 2 to be that way, you've had them since they were puppies'' which really upset me and I thought was true until I seen sense!

Another line was ''Our dogs turn out the way they are because of the owners'' yes to an extent, that is true, but this was meant in a ''there's no bad dogs just bad owners'' way, another favourite of mine!


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## Sarahliz100 (Jan 5, 2014)

Cleo38 said:


> I have known people almost be ashamed of themsleves that their dog has developed issues despite having lots of training & socialisation from them when a puppy.


Totally. I've had my very stressy dog from a pup and done my very best. Lots of socialisation, lots of positive training from day one - at class and at home. Early involvement from a behaviourist and religiously working on his issues. But he's still something of a problem dog. I often feel that people are looking at me as an incompetent, uncaring or irresponsible owner which is very much not the case. Even though I've genuinely done my very best, and am by no means stupid or ill informed I still often look back and wonder whether there's anything I could have done differently.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Sarahliz100 said:


> Totally. I've had my very stressy dog from a pup and done my very best. Lots of socialisation, lots of positive training from day one - at class and at home. Early involvement from a behaviourist and religiously working on his issues. But he's still something of a problem dog. I often feel that people are looking at me as an incompetent, uncaring or irresponsible owner which is very much not the case. Even though I've genuinely done my very best, and am by no means stupid or ill informed I still often look back and wonder whether there's anything I could have done differently.


I've wondered that too.
I've had four GR's and they have all been different although numbers 1 and 4 are the most similar being good natured, friendly, confident dogs. Number 2 was very sweet natured, but nervous, scared of her own shadow type. Took ages to house train her as the merest noise outside would break her concentration and she would scuttle back indoors. She was always nervy throughout her life and very scatty, it was partly the reason why we got number 3 to try and give her a bit more confidence which it did. This one also turned out to be nervous, but behaved aggressively rather then running away like the other dog. Despite socialising, training classes and lots of hard work on our part, neither of these dogs fully overcame the temperament they inherited. 
When researching for the dog I have now (number 4), temperament was the highest on the list, so far so good.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Am sure there must be so many factors to a dogs temperament & we can only do our best when getting a puppy or even an older dog, helping socialise & build confidence, etc yet at times, incidents beyond our control can affect this.

How many times have I read on here about attacks by other dogs which has undone so much hard work & caused a previously confident dog to become anxious & unsure. Am sure some dogs recover well, but some don't, much like people I suppose. Sometimes it can be a series of minor incidents rather than anything major, very upsetting when people have made such an effort with their dogs.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> I have known people almost be ashamed of themsleves that their dog has developed issues despite having lots of training & socialisation from them when a puppy.


Yes; people say "aaaaw bless him, he's gorgeous, is he a rescue?" in sympathetic tones when you explain Kilo can be nervous. When I say "No, I have had him since a pup" their demeanour very much changes and it's horrible - almost accusatory.



Cleo38 said:


> Am sure there must be so many factors to a dogs temperament & we can only do our best when getting a puppy or even an older dog, helping socialise & build confidence, etc yet at times, incidents beyond our control can affect this.
> 
> How many times have I read on here about attacks by other dogs which has undone so much hard work & caused a previously confident dog to become anxious & unsure. Am sure some dogs recover well, but some don't, much like people I suppose. Sometimes it can be a series of minor incidents rather than anything major, very upsetting when people have made such an effort with their dogs.


Bang on. Very, very upsetting.


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