# Early Neutering ....



## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Probably been asked before but i was just wondering how many breeders do have their kittens neutered before leaving them. I know sometimes vets refuse to do this but if all vets did early neuter would you all take advantage of this.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

I'm not a breeder, but just thought I'd give you this information anyway 

Find an Early Neutering Vet

This website will find vets in your area and tell you how early they are willing to neuter.
Hope this helps


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm not a breeder, but I was offered early neutering for my latest additions and I was very very happy to say yes! They were all done and recovered before I picked them up.

I did get Holly and Rowan done early - they were almost 4 months. I already had Willow booked in (almost 6 months), and asked my vet if he would do them at the same time and he agreed :thumbup:

I would say to anyone enquiring at their vet surgery - always ask the actual vet directly. I had asked the nurse if I could get Holly and Rowan done early and was told 'no, they neuter at 6 months'.

When I took Holly and Rowan for their second jabs I asked the vet and he had no problem with it at all


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I early neuter mine, many breeders over here do and it's looked down on not to early neuter


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I early neuter too. CC, if you're considering this, I know an absolutely amazing vet about half an hour away from you. She's brill. Happy to hand hold you through the first time too if you like.


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## kimberleyski (Nov 7, 2012)

Frank is being neutered at 5 months this is the earliest my vet will do it. 

A friend of mine has just recently got a bengal kitten from an excellent breeder he was early neutered before she got him, and she had him at about 16 weeks. For her it was great she didn't have to worry about any injections or neutering for him. 
He is growing into an extremely healthy HUGE cat.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

I want to do this for my next litter but most vets I've asked have said no (most said the kitten must be at least 6 months or a minimum weight of 2kg). One said yes but refuses to tell me how much unless I actually meet him in person for a consult (it is free but a pain in the arse to go to for something which hasn't happened yet).


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Find an Early Neutering Vet
> 
> This website will find vets in your area and tell you how early they are willing to neuter.
> Hope this helps


My vet is on that website but will not neuter a private client's kitten before six months. They are in fact pretty damned anti and when I spoke to them because I have good reason to neuter a kitten at 4+ months was told "we only do CPL cats because we were pushed into it by X" The X is their receptionist who happens to be connected with the CPL.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

My kitten already weighs 2.1kg's so hopefully the weight wont be an issue. Ive spoken to my regular vet who has said he will do it but if he loses the kitten under GA then i will still need to pay the neuter bill.
Obviously this doesnt give me confidence, kitten is male so only a small operation. 
I know size wont make a difference even though some people say they will be smaller but thats just a myth. I have also been told kittens recover far quicker than older cats so thats a bonus.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2013)

Betsy was done on Tuesday. She was born on 17 September. I have had no problems with her.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Yes, yes and yes.


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## Space Chick (Dec 10, 2011)

My vet uses weight as a guideline rather than age... he is happy to consider neutering once the kitten is 2kg.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> My vet uses weight as a guideline rather than age... he is happy to consider neutering once the kitten is 2kg


Be it by weight or age I'm now worried that my vet isn't confident dealing with kittens. A vet who does do early neutering will have experience of anaesthetics with small kittens. Much as I've been happy with my vet I've now got it in my mind that if a young kitten does need surgery then that's not the place to go.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

I am in a similar position with my vet.....changed practices about two years ago and have been over the moon with the new one. Vets are great, 24hr care available, vets happy to speak to you on phone if you ring in....all very knowledgeable about cats, great with the cats and kittens...you get the picture.

But when I approached them about early neutering there was just a bit of a silence then a 'ill have to check' then a phone call back saying it really wasnt usual practice except for rescue kittens.

I got the feeling I could maybe push them with the idea but it gave me doubts about how sure they were about carrying out the ops themselves and I dont want to go with the option of going to another vets I dont know for the first time I do this.

I also wondered if it was because I was asking about Siamese and Oriental kittens and if I had a chunkier and heavier breed they may have been more enthusiastic.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I'll be looking for early neutering at least for the girls later this year. My own vets were happy to neuter Benny 2 weeks after I got him - he was well over 2kg - so I'll start by talking to them. He had no idea something significant had happened!

There are lots of fairly young vets there which might help. Maybe discuss when Lola goes for her 24-hour test.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

My vet is good and i trust them but when i mentioned early neutering and got the reply kittens go through so much just by being vaccinated i then changed my mind but then i do want to protect my breeding lines so a difficult decision to make.
Ive already had trouble with somebody not neutering and had to force the issue and really dont need the hassle of pestering people when purchased as a pet. I dont sell for breeding anyway due to contracts on the cats i own and sorting the best homes is proving to be a nightmare as you just never know.
if mc's stayed smaller at 6 months old then that would be easier but when they are the size of normal adult cats at 4 months not an easy choice to make.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

CC, if he says he's worried about losing such a big boy, I'd not go there. Anaesthetics are slightly different for younger kittens, so the vet needs to be confident in what they're doing. As I say though, my own vet is excellent at early neutering. If you want him done, I'm happy to play host to you for a day.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Thankyou Carly, i may well take you up on this kind offer just for my own peace of mind. I know once its done and all has been fine i will worry less next time.


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## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

how early is early?
domino oscar nutmeg fifi milo jake all got done around 4 months but im thinking you referring to earlier than that
and i know im not a breeder but my cats are scousers


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

CC, do you want me to see if she has any availability? When were you thinking of having him done?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Shadow And Lightning said:


> how early is early?


Mine are done at 10 weeks, when they weigh over 1kg

It's also in between vaccinations, I learnt from others it's best to spread out stresses
So vaccination at 8 weeks, desexing and microchip at 10 weeks, final vax at 12 weeks


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Mine were done at 14 weeks - I would have rather 10 weeks but the vets didn't want to do it then.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

CC I would definitely recommend early neutering if the kitten has a home - however, hang on until 5 months if you can. And, your vet's comments would not instil me with confidence. I would use a vet with vast experience in early neuter. BTW, I find your vet's comment appalling - always thinking of money!


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

I practice early spay/neuter on my pet kittens. My regular vet isn't fond of it and won't do it but I have a nearby vet who does it willingly and he's very good at the surgery. He's known all over Sweden for his well performed surgeries no matter what age the cats are neutered/spayed. He makes minimal incisions which means that the cats heal very fast.


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## pinklizzy (Dec 19, 2009)

Space Chick said:


> My vet uses weight as a guideline rather than age... he is happy to consider neutering once the kitten is 2kg.


This is our practice policy too and is related to the fact that a lot of the non-steroidal pain relief drugs are un-licensed for animals under 2kg in weight rather than the drugs used for anaesthesia.


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

We have been having our babies early neutered for about 5 years now with no issues. I was a bit apprehensive to begin with but their recovery time is amazing and I can honestly say that early neutering certainly didn't stunt any growth - our boys have gone on to be big solid boys! Our vet says it is size, not age, that is the decider. We usually have ours done at 13-14 weeks.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

5 Years, i thought early neutering was a new thing, how stupid am i.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> 5 Years, i thought early neutering was a new thing, how stupid am i.


It's been done for decades  many of the breeders I know didn't start doing it until the mid 90's though


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

Yes our vet who is a New Zealander says they have been doing it over there for 30+ years and he doesn't understand why our vets are so apprehensive about doing it.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> This is our practice policy too and is related to the fact that *a lot* of the non-steroidal pain relief drugs are un-licensed for animals under 2kg in weight rather than the drugs used for anaesthesia.


Interesting. So is it a case of vets not wanting to use those which would be OK.


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## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

it would be good if some vets did neuter earlier... mine dont usually do till 6 months... but as i had girls and boys unneutered at one point they done at 4 months very reluctantly

if they dont them earlier... this summer when i find lots of kittens or get them dropped off at mine etc, ill be able to neuter them before rehoming them, much less of a worry in my mind and they wont be too old for people not to want them

hoping i dont find any abandonments though as it just makes me hate people, but who knows


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> This is our practice policy too and is related to the fact that a lot of the non-steroidal pain relief drugs are un-licensed for animals under 2kg in weight rather than the drugs used for anaesthesia.


Same quote, different thought. Some years ago I took a jill ferret to be spayed and I know she didn't weigh 2kg. Would your practice apply the same policy? The vet I used doesn't early neuter so presumably they had different reasoning behind their policy as they would do ferrets. I found it mightily confusing then as there was very little licensed for ferrets and they always treated them as cats for medicating.


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## pinklizzy (Dec 19, 2009)

havoc said:


> Same quote, different thought. Some years ago I took a jill ferret to be spayed and I know she didn't weigh 2kg. Would your practice apply the same policy? The vet I used doesn't early neuter so presumably they had different reasoning behind their policy as they would do ferrets. I found it mightily confusing then as there was very little licensed for ferrets and they always treated them as cats for medicating.


Looking at the main two generic NSAIDs we use a lot-one isn't licensed over 2kg and the other under 5 months, although you could use something like buprenorphine.
In terms of neutering a ferret, you would probably be asked to sign a disclaimer regarding the usage of drugs that are not licensed for that species? 
For what it's worth I'm not against early neutering, just trying to give another perspective as to why some practices may be reluctant to do it


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I have to say I am always surprised when I hear of rabbits, rats and other small animals being neutered when kittens have to be 5 or 6 months old with many vets still. 
What's the difference?
I haven't had any kittens neutered before they leave yet but my own vet will do it at 16 weeks.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Looking at the main two generic NSAIDs we use a lot-one isn't licensed over 2kg and the other under 5 months


Metacam is from 6 weeks though isn't it?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> In terms of neutering a ferret, you would probably be asked to sign a disclaimer regarding the usage of drugs that are not licensed for that species?


I wasn't - not ever.


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## pinklizzy (Dec 19, 2009)

The injectable form of metacam is from the age of six weeks but over 2kg in bodyweight. I'm really not trying to cause any argument and won't post again, promise!


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Ive got a bottle of metacam and it says do not use in kittens under 6 weeks.
Then just says weigh kitten and dose accordingy.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I'm really not trying to cause any argument and won't post again, promise


Please do because you're the only person with the information and I'm honestly asking the questions because I want the answers. My vet's refusal to carry out early neutering isn't the only issue for me now. It has become a real concern over more than that. For example, if I have a kitten with an intussusception where would I turn?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

pinklizzy said:


> The injectable form of metacam is from the age of six weeks but over 2kg in bodyweight. I'm really not trying to cause any argument and won't post again, promise!


I agree with Havoc, please keep posting - what you have to say is relevant - you aren't stirring up trouble.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Pinklizzy....I also want you to keep posting please.


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## Chiantina (Oct 16, 2012)

I stewarded yesterday for a judge in the foreign section and twice he mentioned that you could tell that a cat had been early neutered because it looked "under-developed". One was a Bengal and one was an Ocicat.

I asked what he meant and he said that it look much longer for them to achieve a mature look such as muzzle breadth and that there can be issues when the cat is 6 or 7 but that there is little data to go on as it hasn't been done for long in the UK and as this thread shows, it is very sporadic.

I was planning to do some research and look at data from Oz and NZ but I just wondered what everyone's perspective on the above, particularly in terms of the "under-development"?!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Males don't develop the mature 'tom cat' look at the traditional 6 month age either, so neutering young makes no difference to that.

I've not found the muzzle changes at all on my pets compared to the stud boy, jowls are the only difference. Head size and shape is the same otherwise.

My oldest Oci pets are 6 years old, all neutered at 10 weeks and not showing any health issues. Do you know what they were referring to? There are studies showing that there are no health or growth issues with early neutering. The Winn Feline Foundation is one that has studied it.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I just wondered what everyone's perspective on the above, particularly in terms of the "under-development"?!


Are we only talking about males and did the judge mean an under developed cat in general or just that male 'look'. The first thing that strikes me here is that a breeder would automatically only early neuter those which weren't the best of type and going as pets. This judge is therefore agreeing with the breeder surely.


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## Chiantina (Oct 16, 2012)

Unfortunately, I didn't get chance to really discuss it in more depth which I would have liked to. I would be interested in what he meant by early because, I agree - I can't see much impact on whether you neuter at 12 weeks or 6 months! It would be interesting to see two 5 year old males for example, 1 who was neutered pre 6 months and one who had been done at 4 and see if there was much difference in the "look".


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> It would be interesting to see two 5 year old males for example, 1 who was neutered pre 6 months and one who had been done at 4


It would if you could somehow guarantee they would have grown up identical except for the difference in neutering age. I don't see how you could. Not all kittens and cats of a given breed are of equal 'quality' in terms of the SOP. The whole point is that you only keep the best entire to breed from. If the breeder is doing their job then it is bound to be the ones which aren't the best of type which get neutered - at whatever age.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

My boy who im thinking of having neutered early is of stud standard but as i only sell for pets and already have a stud, i dont have enough queens to keep another young stud, i am planning on him being a show neuter instead, but now confused whats best to do.
Regarding showing what age do they need to be neutered as i havent done the show before.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

They don't have to be neutered to be shown if shown in the pedigree section. Studs are often shown. Once they are neutered they then move into the neuter section. If he's staying with you, and you want to show him, I'd leave him a while. Whilst there is no evidence that early neutering makes them grow less (in fact it seems to show the opposite, males being about 2% larger than otherwise - can't find the source at the moment, but if I do I will pop it up), if you are wavering, then wait. Especially if you are not sure of you vets skills.


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

Chiantina said:


> I stewarded yesterday for a judge in the foreign section and twice he mentioned that you could tell that a cat had been early neutered because it looked "under-developed". One was a Bengal and one was an Ocicat.
> 
> I asked what he meant and he said that it look much longer for them to achieve a mature look such as muzzle breadth and that there can be issues when the cat is 6 or 7 but that there is little data to go on as it hasn't been done for long in the UK and as this thread shows, it is very sporadic.
> 
> I was planning to do some research and look at data from Oz and NZ but I just wondered what everyone's perspective on the above, particularly in terms of the "under-development"?!


I know of a Bengal breeder that actuarially tested a few judges ability to tell early neutered males from conventionally neutered males. Judges that claimed to be able to tell the difference. Not one of them was able to sort the early neutered males out.

There's tons of studies done on early neutered/spayed cats (including long-term effects) and there are no scientific proof of early neutering having a negative effect on the health. On the contrary, early neutered/spayed cats are less prone to develop asthma and gingivitis (to name a few of the diseases studied). It doesn't mean that it is because of the early neutering, but it at least shows that it isn't negative for the health.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Thankyou Spid. xx


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

havoc said:


> The first thing that strikes me here is that a breeder would automatically only early neuter those which weren't the best of type and going as pets..


I don't let anything leave here entire, including those who've gone to show neuter homes, they are all done before leaving.

Anyone wanting a show neuter won't be given a pet quality kitten, who wants their prefix represented that way?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Judges that claimed to be able to tell the difference. Not one of them was able to sort the early neutered males out.


I do believe this. Walk around any show and in any given breed there are differences between cats. Some are bigger, some finer boned, different shapes, different length tails etc. etc. That's the whole point, we're all aiming for perfection but never quite get there. I don't understand how a judge could definitively say this is down to the age of neutering rather than genetics.


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