# Ultrasound said not pregnant but what's this movement under her ribs?



## LadyFrenchies

Mine and brothers frenchies slip mated the 10th Jan since then shes had sickness a few times some discharge not alot and not smelly or bloody and has become very affectionate and loving would be her first litter hence why I'm thinking a singleton and her vulva is very chunky looking hasn't returned to not season status! . She has filled out in her ribs and her teats have grown a small size and have pinked up. Obviously being worried I had her scanned at home and she said she isn't pregnant but she didnt scan up near her ribs just around the bottom near her vulva! Now I've got a video of movement and have posted it for some advice. I'm worried she's going to need a section. I need eyes and opinions please. Thanks


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## LadyFrenchies

You can see it around the 17-20second mark this wasn't a planned pregnancy as my brother had the bitch but I have taken her on due to him going back into hospital and I had no idea she had/or was in season at the time until my dad had filled me in. I am hoping she isn't for her sake but if she is I have the means to care for her ie money ect and love and care and if it is indeed a singleton my mother has already claimed it


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## Jamesgoeswalkies

It's sometimes hard to see if the litter is small - and yes, bitches can get pregnant from a slip mating. From your description she is showing some signs. To be honest i would have a word with your vet and see what they say - and if you are concerned then they can scan her properly.

J


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## Burrowzig

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> if you are concerned then they can scan her properly.


Or there's a blood test.


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## LadyFrenchies

Thankyou both, I will leave her another week and see if there's any change in her and take her to our local vet where she is already registered. She has been eating alot more ravinously to be honest I do think she is. But I'm no expert. What else could that moventment be? I sent the video to my mum who used to breed and show JRT's and she said that it looks like definite puppy movement and thinks she is. I just want to be prepared if anything to be honest


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## LadyFrenchies

....


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## LadyFrenchies

OK guys I think I had my wires/dates crossed. From the 10th Jan slip mate (I seen) she would be on day 47 which is near to the end of week 7, If i count from the day after she came to us (the only day she was left alone with my boy) it would have been the 7th Jan making her on day 50 today! Last night she had her feed and she was massive! and tbh looked like a huge barrel I've never seen her that big. I put it down to her food and waited until morning and felt her tummy when shes stood and she was definitely firm. I have the afternoon off work on Thursday so I will definitely be taking her in to the vet. She has always been a slender muscular lean girl and is very active and very fast for a frenchie nothing like my big chunky fat Poo Bear. So she could be hiding them very well if she is, possibly making the ultrasound woman miss them? The pics are useless tbh my 4 year old messed with the settings making the pictures blue but she won't leave my side and has been more ravernous than usual since I last posted she's even trying to push Bear off his food to eat after eating hers which is definitely out of character for her shes never really been a huge eater.


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## LadyFrenchies

This is her at the end of August last year when we took them both out together. As you can see shes a very slender girl beautifully lean and strong feeding on 1kg of raw a day. Pics do no justice but just look at the difference in that belly now


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## Emilysmeow

Sounds from your description like pregnancy could be very likely, but only a vet could tell you that 100%. Although, she is in very late pregnancy if she's on day 50. 
I would advise that, due to her breed, it may be worth researching potential issues with giving birth and signs to look for (if this is your first time with a pregnancy bitch), as french bulldogs unfortunately do struggle to give natural birth. Consequently, could be worth being prepared for a C-section too (although, fingers crossed she is ok...)
Your vet will be able to talk you through any information you need to know.


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## LadyFrenchies

Emilysmeow said:


> Sounds from your description like pregnancy could be very likely, but only a vet could tell you that 100%. Although, she is in very late pregnancy if she's on day 50.
> I would advise that, due to her breed, it may be worth researching potential issues with giving birth and signs to look for (if this is your first time with a pregnancy bitch), as french bulldogs unfortunately do struggle to give natural birth. Consequently, could be worth being prepared for a C-section too (although, fingers crossed she is ok...)
> Your vet will be able to talk you through any information you need to know.


Thanks for your reply, trust me I have been very nervous thinking that she is indeed pregnant. I have seen doga whelp before when my mum bred JRT's. I havent been off Google since all this started doing all the necessary research and searching all forums regarding frenchie pregnancy and complications it's definitely scaring the hell out of me but I will do whatever I can to help her through this and will definitely be bringing up about a c section if vet comfirms the pregnancy. Thanks again


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## LadyFrenchies

Spoke to my girls breeder, she was from a self welped litter and grandmother was a self whelper too


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## David C

Looking at those pictures i would say she looks pregnant, might not be a big litter though, Cant see the video for some reason


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## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Looking at those pictures i would say she looks pregnant, might not be a big litter though, Cant see the video for some reason


I hope it isn't a singleton can they hide 2-3 pups high up like that I've definitely felt and seen more movement since. I will try upload video again now, it was filmed on the 22nd of Feb


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## David C

definitely looks like something moved slightly there near the end of the rib cage, I think if i was you i would go to the vet and get the vets to scan or xray her and see what exactly is going on


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## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> definitely looks like something moved slightly there near the end of the rib cage, I think if i was you i would go to the vet and get the vets to scan or xray her and see what exactly is going on


I've discussed everything with the vet and I'm going to take her in tomorrow afternoon for him to have another nosey at her. He did have a palp a couple of weeks back and couldn't feel anything but he did say she may have them high up in her ribs. The movement I've recently seen is a tad bit lower now more to the middle of her belly. Could it/they be moving down


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## David C

Yes they could easily be moving down now because the puppy growth would cause the uterine horns to drop more. Ask the vet to do an xray because at this stage you will definitely be able to see the skeletons of the pup/pups and know for certain if she is pregnant exactly how many are in there which if its only one or two you really do need to know


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## David C

Let us know how you get on


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## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Yes they could easily be moving down now because the puppy growth would cause the uterine horns to drop more. Ask the vet to do an xray because at this stage you will definitely be able to see the skeletons of the pup/pups and know for certain if she is pregnant exactly how many are in there which if its only one or two you really do need to know


I asked about an xray when I explained over the phone but she said they don't do an xray unless it's an urgent matter but I will persist and yes I will definitely be sticking around and updating thanks for the advice and suport


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## LadyFrenchies

danielle101 said:


> I asked about an xray when I explained over the phone but she said they don't do an xray unless it's an urgent matter but I will persist and yes I will definitely be sticking around and updating thanks for the advice and suport


and they don't do sections by request. An emergency one would be £6-700.


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## LadyFrenchies

Chubby maybe mama!

As of yesterday her teats have gone a deep purple colour and tummy feels alot firmer. No milk yet and no other symptoms apart from being very greedy and still active loves playing rope tug with maybe daddy Bear! Vets this afternoon see what's going on


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## LadyFrenchies

Well got the same diagnosis but wasn't our usual vet said maybe 1 or 2 hiding high up definitely feels full but couldn't feel anything definite guess its a waiting game for us... The only thing I can think is that the 20 min walk to the vets may cause her to hold them high as when she's at home she's all relaxed and all hanging out... this girl is definitely secretive


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## David C

Do they not have an ultrasound scanning machine that they could have scanned her properly with including right up to her rib cage? I think i'd go and find a different vet!!


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## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Do they not have an ultrasound scanning machine that they could have scanned her properly with including right up to her rib cage? I think i'd go and find a different vet!!


I did ask about an xray/ultrasound to confirm it so I'm not on pins with her but simply got told "we don't have the scanner working and the xray wouldn't be advisable as she isn't further enough in the pregnancy, we can do a blood test but it's probably better to just keep an eye on her and if I have more concerns to ring up or bring her back in" I don't want to keep stressing her out with vet trips every week. I'm going to let her go another week and see if anything becomes more apparent but to be honest I feel like I'm wasting my time with my vets and a change is probably on the cards I might book another mobile scanner next week...


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## LadyFrenchies

Another thing I have noticed is her peeing alot more than usual but she isn't drinking much I'd say less than usual actually and pooping straight after eating I'd be very shocked if this is a phantom after all these symptoms I've never known a bitch like it ‍♀


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## Guest

More blue french bulldogs....why don’t people get dogs spayed any more?

Please do the right thing and only sell them for a rehoming fee. Are the parents health tested?
The prices people ask for these dogs just encourages more and more breeding, a lot of it irresponsibly, and if the parents aren’t tested and well matched then these puppies aren’t worth hundreds and hundreds of pounds. 

If your brother owned both, are they related in any way?


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## LadyFrenchies

My brother bought Mis as a pup from Yorkshire after spending a year in hospital with heart failure for rehabilitation at home ie getting out and walking and for company. He recently went back in hospital at the beginning of january and I said I would take her on while we found out what was going on with my brother and I wasnt told about her season. My boy is a standard fawn bought in Manchester, he is health tested and they are completely unrelated. As I'm sure many people are aware accidents can happen and they never had a chance to tie! They a fully crate trained and have separate crates when we are not home. I won't be selling any pups if there is as my family have already claimed it/them.


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## LadyFrenchies

More movement tonight, pretty sure she is in whelp. I told the ultrasound woman who came out last time and she is going to do a free repeat on Monday... Thanks


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## mrs phas

danielle101 said:


> Ha! was waiting for this to be honest. My brother bought the chocolate tan girl as a pup from Yorkshire after spending a year in hospital with heart failure for rehabilitation at home ie getting out and walking and for company. He recently went back in hospital at the beginning of january and I said I would take her on while we found out what was going on with my brother and I wasnt told about her season. My boy is a standard fawn no BLUE involved and bought from Manchester, he is health tested and completely unrelated. As I'm sure many people are aware accidents can happen and they never had a chance to tie! They a fully crate trained and have separate crates when we are not home. If you read my posts I won't be selling any pups if there is as my family have already claimed them. Im doing everything I can possibly do right now and have enough to deal with without someone thinking I am an immature child who hasn't got a clue about dogs when I explained that I grew up with a fully registered dog breeder. I appreciate you trying to help and if I have taken your post the wrong way then I do apologise.


have i missed sonething? have been following without commenting as i have nothing to add, I cant even see a movement on the videos other than breathig, shows how ignorant i am re breeding/pregnancy/whelping


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## LadyFrenchies

Spaying wasn't really thought about as we always kept them separate during seasons ie no walks together and no visits as we live in completely different areas but we do usually meet up at the weekends for walkies when not in season.


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## LadyFrenchies

mrs phas said:


> have i missed sonething? have been following without commenting as i have nothing to add, I cant even see a movement on the videos other than breathig, shows how ignorant i am re breeding/pregnancy/whelping


I am unsure why the ultrasounder wants to repeat after seing the last vid then lol. Hopefully I am just over reacting but I'd rather be prepared and ask for help and advice.


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## LadyFrenchies

mrs phas said:


> have i missed sonething? have been following without commenting as i have nothing to add, I cant even see a movement on the videos other than breathig, shows how ignorant i am re breeding/pregnancy/whelping


Sorry its more noticeable at the end of the vid just under her ribs. In that red circle lol


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## Rafa

I'm afraid I don't see any movement in that video either.

If she were pregnant, what day would she be on now?


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## LadyFrenchies

Rafa said:


> I'm afraid I don't see any movement in that video either.
> 
> If she were pregnant, what day would she be on now?


She would be between day 50 and 53.


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## LadyFrenchies

Full screen works best I think to be honest guys!


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## LadyFrenchies

OK I just re watched and the quality is soo bad! I did actually feel the movement with my palm after I said Omg on the film haha felt like a wave such a strange feeling but definitely never felt it before.


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## LadyFrenchies

It's like a rippling effect on the edge of her belly, I may be able to see it clearer because I no where it is... Oh hum off to bed lol, thanks for everybody's eyes goodnight


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## Dogloverlou

Must admit, I didn't see anything in the first or second vid, but think I saw a very brief movement in that longer vid you posted above maybe because there was more time to actually look for the movement if that makes sense? Either way, I'm sure your scanner can confirm for sure this time on Monday.


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## mrs phas

nope, sorry, ive blown it up, tried to slow it down looked at it around a dozen times, and not a movement i can see, except her breathing
and, perhaps because shes laying down, so its a wrong perspective, she seems to have too good a tummy tuck to be pregnant, especially as far along as you think


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## David C

Any news from her repeat scan today?


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## David C

Any news????


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## Linda Weasel

Thought I saw a bit of a flutter there but not sure. You’ll know today for sure, hopefully.


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## LadyFrenchies

Morning guys and gals! Sorry been majour busy with getting last minute things ready for this sneeky girl! We definitely have 1! She said there could be one above that and one on the other side hiding high up still. She also said that she's a very tidy girl haha. Her last set of teats are starting to full out now as well but still no milk still very ravernous and clingy. My boss knows the situation and we have a wireless camera set up on her crate to my phone so I can keep an eye on her while at work. They still haven't moved down much but she estimated she's about 7 1/2 to 8 weeks!


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## LadyFrenchies

Ohhh I also informed the vets and they said to let her try naturally first if there's any complications or no pups an hour after labour starts to bring her straight down for an emergency section. And if there's no sign of labour 60 days after the 10th Jan to ring and book a section for around the 14th to the 17th March


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## David C

Don't panic if there are no signs of labour after 60 days because 63 days is gestation time and she may also not have ovulated on the day of that slip mating so you could still have a couple of days extra so just keep an eye on her and see how she goes naturally . When the vets say if nothing has happened an hour after labour starts remember that the first stage of labour can go on for 24 hours where she will be restless and nesting etc , you may see small pushes , don't take this as her being in full labour as that is just moving the pups in place, When you see full strong pushes thats the time to check the time and make a note of it and i wouldn't panic after just an hour, i've had bitches in the past push for 2 hours before the pup has come and they have been perfectly fine. Your girl could surprise you are whelp that pup/pups perfectly fine. There are many frenchies that self whelp without any problems, and also don't worry about no milk yet because its too early some girls only come into milk the day before or when they start whelping


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## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Don't panic if there are no signs of labour after 60 days because 63 days is gestation time and she may also not have ovulated on the day of that slip mating so you could still have a couple of days extra so just keep an eye on her and see how she goes naturally . When the vets say if nothing has happened an hour after labour starts remember that the first stage of labour can go on for 24 hours where she will be restless and nesting etc , you may see small pushes , don't take this as her being in full labour as that is just moving the pups in place, When you see full strong pushes thats the time to check the time and make a note of it and i wouldn't panic after just an hour, i've had bitches in the past push for 2 hours before the pup has come and they have been perfectly fine. Your girl could surprise you are whelp that pup/pups perfectly fine. There are many frenchies that self whelp without any problems, and also don't worry about no milk yet because its too early some girls only come into milk the day before or when they start whelping


Thankyou for the advice, will definitely be following it as my mums said near enough the same. She's bin there and done it all with her JRT's. Obviously frenchies are a bit more trouble some in the whelping department but she's a nice slender build not much fat on her but enough to stay healthy and will hopefully take this in her stride! She has a small head and Bears isn't massive so hopefully pups won't have to much of a head mass to pass through nicely. Fingers crossed! Everything is literally going through my mind I can't even type it out properly haha gosh! Hooe you guys can stick around until we have some pups. I may need alot more advice during the whelp :0


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## David C

Any help needed just shout, there are more than enough of us here who have been through this many times to help you through it if you need it, Oh and congratulations lol


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## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Any help needed just shout, there are more than enough of us here who have been through this many times to help you through it if you need it, Oh and congratulations lol


Haha thank you!


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## Rafa

I would never allow a bitch to push for as long as two hours with no resulting pup.

If the pup is stuck in the birth canal, either because it's big or a breech delivery, there is every chance it will die.

Twenty minutes is enough and then Veterinary advice is needed.


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## LadyFrenchies

So me and missy have had some quite time on the couch tonight and shes been lay on her side snoring away with me feeling her tummy. I've felt a ton of movement in 3 different parts of her tum all down the one side. Multiple little kicks and alot of bubbly gurgly noises, even hubs can see and feel it now where as a week ago I thought I was loosing my mind and imagining it. Atleast now we no for certain.


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## LadyFrenchies

Just a little update

I haven't seen or felt any movement since my last post, I am now on pins at work and watching the camera set up on Missy's crate for any action as i know that pups are generally quite active (thinking about my last post) while moving down into position to be born and you don't really feel much movement from them once they are in place (am I right in thinking this?), she has slimmed down up near her ribs now and feels swollen around her last two set of teats, she is between day 56/59 and I am slightly nervous for her! Still her usual self, greedy, sleepy and needy! No discharge has been seen but she is a good cleaner upper, I was going to take a temp this morning but we was in such a rush I didn't want to bother her. She seems fine on the camera just sleeping. No panting or nesting behaviour either as of yet! I am hoping she will wait until at least tomorrow evening so im home rather then rushing to her from work but I know that it cant be helped on her side lol!


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## David C

It could just be that the pup has moved position and you can't feel it as well or see it moving. I wouldn't worry


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## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> It could just be that the pup has moved position and you can't feel it as well or see it moving. I wouldn't worry


Thanks David, will keep my eyes on her and try to relax HA!
Im going to move her upstairs tonight and get her settled into the whelping room (our box room 7ft/5ft) mainly for a break and some peace from daddy Bear and my 4 year old. Its fitted with a large waterproof heated pet bed and puppy pad/newspaper lined floor, lots of old blankets and bedding tossed around for her to make her own nest. I have installed the second camera in there also to keep watch and have my mothers old whelping box filled with individually wrapped and sterilised equipment! Im lucky she kept it after 4 years of not breeding! Suppose we are ready and waiting now!

Forgot to mention she still has no milk! Whens the latest this can come in?, I do have 3 sets of un opened bottles and teats in the whelping box and 4 tins of Lactol puppy milk on standby just in case! My hubby thinks I have amazing organisation skills. I like to think its more about being prepared!


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## Rafa

None of my bitches ever produced milk until their pups were born.


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## LadyFrenchies

Rafa said:


> None of my bitches ever produced milk until their pups were born.


Thanks Rafa, Her tesats dont look filled to be honest, they do appear to be bigger and purple but definitely not swollen, her first 2 sets have got thick little rings around them but nothing more


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## David C

Some do some don't, they are all different,


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## LadyFrenchies

Anybody seen or no much about colostrum? I have looked online but not found anybody's personal experiences. There was nothing on her teats last night (Ive been checking them in the morning and before bed) But this morning I found a little bit of like a crusty yellowy substance dried on the tip of her last set of teats. Ive been watching her all morning since getting in to work via the camera and she gets up every 10-15 mins or so, stretches and lies back down on her other side but wrapped in a fetal position all tucked up.


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## LadyFrenchies

I think somethings happening, she just shot up and did a huge stretch and stood just breathing for about a min then started crying/whining like mad!


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## SusieRainbow

She really needs someone there with her.


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## David C

Crusty stuff on her nipples could be a bit of milk coming in, ive had this before with bitches and with what your explaining now she could be in the first stages of labour and i think you need to be at home and not at work and maybe phone in sick for the next few days until she has whelped and all is fine


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## David C

Today is day 60 from the 7th January which was the first day they could have mated so the pup / pups could come any time now


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## LadyFrenchies

SusieRainbow said:


> She really needs someone there with her.


Shes totally settled now sprawled out on her side, as soon as i see any sign of panting or her looking distressed then i will pack up and leave work and go home to her hence the camera set up, my boss has told me it would be fine and even watches the camera when we are not that busy lol.


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## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Crusty stuff on her nipples could be a bit of milk coming in, ive had this before with bitches and with what your explaining now she could be in the first stages of labour and i think you need to be at home and not at work and maybe phone in sick for the next few days until she has whelped and all is fine


As said she is resting now, i only work until 3 and don't work weekends so after today i am totally free and at her command, I have discussed time off with my boss for next week and it isn't a problem as I have never had to use my sick days after 3 years of being here.

I am only 10 mins away from home so if anything does pick up i can quickly get to her.


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## David C

Excellent, good that you can have the time off if needed


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## LadyFrenchies

False Labour! 

OK yesterday around half 2 in the afternoon while still at work I was watching the camera and she appeared to be pushing, after giving my mum the password to the camera she confirmed that it does look like she was pushing or atleast having some contractions. However she was asleep or appeared to be asleep no panting no stressing out at all and no cleaning up. so I rushed home incase she progressed. She appeared totally fine when I got in. My mum sent me the recording and I can honestly say I'm in shock that she isn't in active labour. She was totally normal, playing eating pooping no fluids anywhere no discharge... I am stumped I thought ok maybe its the start and we are in a slow phase one but she's bin fine all night and all morning I slept downstairs with my face glued to the camera most of the night. The pup/pups are still moving and she doesn't seem distressed at all. I'm going to ring the vets when they open at 10 and explain what's happend. Does this sound like false Labour?


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## miljar

No, just a false alarm. You do get twitchy when you are waiting for/expecting something to happen, and things that you wouldn't normally even notice now seem like heralds of imminent labour. The girl herself is totally normal - it is just you, and that is also totally normal.
I find that food is quite a good sign. If a meal that would normally be eaten straight away is left, then that is a sign that something is happening inside. It is not an "always", but it is quite often what we pick up on first.
Good luck.


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## LadyFrenchies

Thanks for the reassurance miljar, i'm going to post the video if anybody wants to watch, it definitely had me running for the door at work! :Nailbiting


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## LadyFrenchies

I'm not going to lie, I do get very distressed when I watch it tbh it makes me think something is wrong but like I said she seems totally normal


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## LadyFrenchies

LadyFrenchies said:


> I'm not going to lie, I do get very distressed when I watch it tbh it makes me think something is wrong but like I said she seems totally normal :Sorry I'm on pins and totally confused/nervous/scared...


She looks like she's straining! Only half an hour to go till the vets open I'm definitely ringing them! I don't care that can't be normal followed by nothing!


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## Linda Weasel

To me she just looks as if she’s uncomfortable and perhaps reacting to the pups moving.

Waxing of the teats might indicate labour is close and she could also be having some mild contractions now but that can happen days before in some bitches.

Actual labour and straining to get a pup out is unmistakable; she will probably go into a crouch position and you will see her/her muscles making an effort. Also be prepared for lots of green liquid!


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## LadyFrenchies

Shes had brown ball poops for the past 3 weeks, took her for a little 10 min walk around the black and she did a lovely yellow runny poop :Wideyed vets said give her more time as she seems well in herself I need to stop panicking and listen to your guys advice haha x


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## Rafa

She would be very unlikely to get to the stage of pushing, which is final stage labour, without showing some signs of early labour.

In early labour, you would expect loss of appetite, restlessness, digging/nesting and shivering/trembling.

As labour progresses, she will begin panting and it's at that stage you should watch her closely for straining/pushing.


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## LadyFrenchies

Day 59/62 and nothing more to report, still no discharge or fluids, still active and ate this morning, but of runny poop again but I noticed last night when she had her last meal she near enough pood herself, like she couldn't hold it and ran out the living room while pooing, very strange, she is winy this morning but I think it's just because she can hear us upstairs. Eyes are still on her like a halk but got that old saying in my head! A watched pot never boils :Smuggrin


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## David C

I would say she just looks uncomfortable bless her, She does need some water in that crate with her though x


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## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> I would say she just looks uncomfortable bless her, She does need some water in that crate with her though x


We tried her in the whelping room the night before and she hated it was desperate to be with our other dog so it was last minute in the crate in the morning she's completely gone off water hasn't had much at all in this last week but she is on wet food so she's not completely dry. Her crate is now left open with a pen around it and another soft bed for her, sheets are in the crate now and water and dry food is also left out for her in the pen but she hardly touches it.


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## LadyFrenchies

Good afternoon...Day 60/63 and nothing much to report, other then a lot of on and off cleaning going on! She keeps spinning in her bed in the living room and has done a tiny bit of a dig in the sheets, in the corner of the crate in the kitchen, the camera is still set up on the crate so once she wonders out the living room I nosy on the camera as to not disturb her. Sleeping a lot to be honest. She will be asleep and then bed spinning and then cleaning herself then back to sleeping and then repeat lol about every half and hour to an hour.


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## David C

Sounds like she could be in the first stages of labour


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## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Sounds like she could be in the first stages of labour


She got up and moved the bedding around with her muzzle and spent about 3 mins cleaning herself, then as per she lay down and is sleeping again haha!
No other signs, no panting or nutty cleaning as of yet, will try to stay informed but phones in the repair shop. I do have the house phone for emergency's just incase.


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## David C

the first stages can last up to 24 hours where they are restless and licking every so often etc,


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## LadyFrenchies

Had more cleaning last night and two very large soft light coloured poops, and I mean like two large piles which is definitely not like her. She had cuddles with me on the couch and more movement was felt, and then this morning day 61/64, I could feel like a long shape on the other side more down and slight movement from that too not much though, hopefully we do have two in there after all!


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## Freyja

I would say definitely first stages of labour. Be warned one of my whippets ate a big bowl of meat turned round and popped a pup out no digging no warning nothing she was a small bitch and had a large litter 10 pups. When I spoke to the vet he laughed and said the big bowl of meat she ate must have pushed the pup out as she was 6 days early and with only 1 mating we were pretty sure of their due date


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## LadyFrenchies

Freyja said:


> I would say definitely first stages of labour. Be warned one of my whippets ate a big bowl of meat turned round and popped a pup out no digging no warning nothing she was a small bitch and had a large litter 10 pups. When I spoke to the vet he laughed and said the big bowl of meat she ate must have pushed the pup out as she was 6 days early and with only 1 mating we were pretty sure of their due date


Wow haha! Was the pup OK being so early? That's crazy!

Nothing else to report tonight, she's had food played around with bear and my daughter some cleaning going on and off again but that's it for tonight  it's bedtime in our household now and everything feels... Normal...


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## LadyFrenchies

Well I couldn't help myself and thought I'd try taking a temp after reading up how to do it correctly for the tenth time tonight lol. She didn't even mind at all to be honest, very calm and relaxed girl. She had a bit of a "whoaa" moment on the first go but settled before the beep and got 36.8. Left her a few mins and retook it and got 37.0... I didn't expect to see anything significant as I haven't been tracking her temp to no any difference but even they are messing with my head


----------



## LadyFrenchies

LadyFrenchies said:


> Well I couldn't help myself and thought I'd try taking a temp after reading up how to do it correctly for the tenth time tonight lol. She didn't even mind at all to be honest, very calm and relaxed girl. She had a bit of a "whoaa" moment on the first go but settled before the beep and got 36.8. Left her a few mins and retook it and got 37.0... I didn't expect to see anything significant as I haven't been tracking her temp to no any difference but even they are messing with my head


Temp this morning : 37.6 I'm going to stick to times also guys I've wrote it all down


----------



## David C

wen it gets down to about between 96f and 97f then you could be on the way but you may have even missed the temperature drop because it often goes back up after the drop


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> wen it gets down to about between 96f and 97f then you could be on the way but you may have even missed the temperature drop because it often goes back up after the drop


I thought that myself after this mornings temp read, shes no different today. Day 62/65


----------



## Wisteria

Congratulations @LadyFrenchies! You seem to be well set up for pups can't wait to see what they look like!


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Wisteria said:


> Congratulations @LadyFrenchies! You seem to be well set up for pups can't wait to see what they look like!


Thankyou! Yes we are well prepared and very eager to meet it/them haha it was a shock but now we can't wait! Shes going to be a lovely mummy she's such a lovely girl!

4pm temp - 37.8


----------



## Wisteria

LadyFrenchies said:


> Thankyou! Yes we are well prepared and very eager to meet it/them haha it was a shock but now we can't wait! Shes going to be a lovely mummy she's such a lovely girl!
> 
> 4pm temp - 37.8


I bet she will be! I am so excited for you both! Good luck x


----------



## LadyFrenchies

I'm getting really concerned right now and I don't no why! I guess I'm worried somethings going to go wrong! There's no change in her wat so ever guys I no she may be a little behind with dates but everyday is the same and I'm getting worried and over thinking which leads to panicking :Bag I just want everything to be OK and over with so we can all start relaxing. 

Pup is still wriggling around in there, such a lovely feeling on my hand. I just want him out safely


----------



## Rafa

LadyFrenchies said:


> Day 62/65


What day is she?

Why are you giving a range of three days?

If she's on Day 62, then she isn't overdue.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

LadyFrenchies said:


> I'm getting really concerned right now and I don't no why! I guess I'm worried somethings going to go wrong! There's no change in her wat so ever guys I no she may be a little behind with dates but everyday is the same and I'm getting worried and over thinking which leads to panicking :Bag I just want everything to be OK and over with so we can all start relaxing.
> 
> Pup is still wriggling around in there, such a lovely feeling on my hand. I just want him out safely





Rafa said:


> What day is she?
> 
> Why are you giving a range of three days?
> 
> If she's on Day 62, then she isn't overdue.


I never said she was overdue, she came to us on the 7th Jan but only seen a slip on the 10th and was instantly separated. I'm just giving her a date range just incase they had secret meetings on them first 3 days...


----------



## David C

I recon that the slop mating on the 10th is what did the job so tomorrow is d day for you but don't panic if she doesn't have it tomorrow


----------



## Freyja

LadyFrenchies said:


> Wow haha! Was the pup OK being so early? That's crazy!
> 
> Nothing else to report tonight, she's had food played around with bear and my daughter some cleaning going on and off again but that's it for tonight  it's bedtime in our household now and everything feels... Normal...


She had a litter of 10 pups and yes all survived and were healthy


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Freyja said:


> She had a litter of 10 pups and yes all survived and were healthy


Aw, beautiful, I couldn't imagine having 10 pups running around, bet that was fun


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> I recon that the slop mating on the 10th is what did the job so tomorrow is d day for you but don't panic if she doesn't have it tomorrow


Hopefully she will go today as I have a very important meeting tomorrow at work and have to go to the office for a few hours! The camera that was set up also met its fate last night as Bear decided he had had enough of my spying and chewed it up! (all pieces were accounted for, thankfully).

So now I am blind and cant keep watch, I have ordered a new camera but says it wont be here until Tuesday. I may ask my Nan if she would dog sit until i get home but she doesn't even like dogs! :Wideyed


----------



## Rafa

LadyFrenchies said:


> Hopefully she will go today as I have a very important meeting tomorrow at work and have to go to the office for a few hours! The camera that was set up also met its fate last night as Bear decided he had had enough of my spying and chewed it up! (all pieces were accounted for, thankfully).
> 
> So now I am blind and cant keep watch, I have ordered a new camera but says it wont be here until Tuesday. I may ask my Nan if she would dog sit until i get home but she doesn't even like dogs! :Wideyed


If your bitch does deliver today, you can't leave her alone or unsupervised tomorrow, neither can you leave her alone tomorrow if she doesn't deliver today.

I never left a bitch alone with newborns for the first two weeks after birth. A lot can go wrong.


----------



## David C

Rafa is right, you really need someone with her now and for a couple of days after whelping.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Rafa said:


> If your bitch does deliver today, you can't leave her alone or unsupervised tomorrow, neither can you leave her alone tomorrow if she doesn't deliver today.
> 
> I never left a bitch alone with newborns for the first two weeks after birth. A lot can go wrong.


Unfortunately I have to attend as horrible as it may be, I haven't been at work all week and have been with her everyday, this meeting is probably going to cost me my job if i don't attend, I would be gone two hours max, I wouldn't leave her alone by any means and I am only a phone call away if she does start, I have been researching non stop for the past 4 weeks regarding whelping and if anything goes wrong and even if i have to intervene, I have a large family and we are all local to each other, i would tell them what signs to look for and when to ring me. There's been no change today at all, this mornings temp was 37.7.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

LadyFrenchies said:


> Unfortunately I have to attend as horrible as it may be, I haven't been at work all week and have been with her everyday, this meeting is probably going to cost me my job if i don't attend, I would be gone two hours max, I wouldn't leave her alone by any means and I am only a phone call away if she does start, I have been researching non stop for the past 4 weeks regarding whelping and if anything goes wrong and even if i have to intervene, I have a large family and we are all local to each other, i would tell them what signs to look for and when to ring me. There's been no change today at all, this mornings temp was 37.7.


Newest temp is also 37.7


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Tonights temp. . Also 37.7? Is this normal

I tested it twice to make sure


----------



## David C

its slightly down but not unusual, i would expect a drop to at least 36,5 ish so 97f or lower but not all bitches are the same


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> its slightly down but not unusual, i would expect a drop to at least 36,5 ish so 97f or lower but not all bitches are the same


Yes I agree all bitches arnt the same I think this is probably her average temp, I have been googling about temps and reading other people's experiences on forums ect, Tuesdays temps were probably a false drop.

Edited because I reread it and it didn't even make sense, heads been all-over today.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

This mornings temp was 37.5


----------



## David C

All you can do is keep a close eye on her


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> All you can do is keep a close eye on her


Shes been fine all morning, had her breakfast had her usual toilet, yesterday afternoon-ish around 5pm she was breathing a little heavier and a little faster (and i mean like just a tad) she was sat up quite a bit just starring, doing a little bit of cleaning but nothing that screams labour is imminent, i still haven't seen any discharge or jelly or watery dripping, her vulva doesn't seem swollen of any sort and last night while she was lay on her side i was feeling the pup move around and it moved right to the back of her side like near to her spine! i didn't think they could go that far back! is that normal?

My meeting is at 12pm and my dear mother (past breeder) is going to come at 11am and sit with her until i get back!


----------



## LadyFrenchies

This picture was from the 5th March but I just uploaded to show where I meant the puppy moved to on my last post, I usually feel him anywhere around that red circle, but last night he moved right around to that green circle lol maybe a bit more back. I honestly thought they stay close to the front to be totally honest as that's where I have seen the uterine horns on diagrams and assumed puppies all stayed in a line down her abdomen.


----------



## Wisteria

LadyFrenchies said:


> Love birds melt my heart haha


That is adorable! Any day now x


----------



## David C

I think maybe its time to start thinking about taking her to the vet to be checked out and re scanned by the vet to see if the pup is still alive, Seeing as the scanner saw one pup last week when she was scanned and she's now over due for both the dates


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> I think maybe its time to start thinking about taking her to the vet to be checked out and re scanned by the vet to see if the pup is still alive, Seeing as the scanner saw one pup last week when she was scanned and she's now over due for both the dates


Yes, I think it's about that time isn't it. Will give them a call in the morning and see what the next step is. Feeling a bit worried now


----------



## David C

Yes that's the best option because if the pup has died then it needs to come out asap


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Yes that's the best option because if the pup has died then it needs to come out asap


Oh I no, it's my worst fear right now! 
Tonights temp 37.0...
Pups still moving around thank god. I've noticed he moves around more when she is resting! Lower abdomen is very firm and she can't get comfortable.


----------



## David C

That's great that you can still feel it moving around. Let's hope she gets a move on and has him tonight or tomorrow but I'd still be getting her checked tomorrow


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> That's great that you can still feel it moving around. Let's hope she gets a move on and has him tonight or tomorrow but I'd still be getting her checked tomorrow


I know, I'm happy for now. Will still be having a word with the vet and will definitely be keeping my eyes on her tonight, she seems a little down to me and sleepy. Hopefully things will pick I tonight after that lower temp... Come on girl!


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Woke up to shredded puppy pads and newspaper, blankets buried through the pile. She's had her breakfast and I took her temp during it. Back up to 37.5. Vets open at 10am.


----------



## Freyja

Sounds like she has started if she was mine I would take out the blankets and put in a big pile of newspaper the last thing you want is for her to have a pup and then for it to get tangled in with a blanket if she keeps digging and suffocating it. Keep a close eye on her now and if she goes outside keep her on a lead you don't want her to have a pup under a bush and have to go searching for it.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Freyja said:


> Sounds like she has started if she was mine I would take out the blankets and put in a big pile of newspaper the last thing you want is for her to have a pup and then for it to get tangled in with a blanket if she keeps digging and suffocating it. Keep a close eye on her now and if she goes outside keep her on a lead you don't want her to have a pup under a bush and have to go searching for it.


Done! Thanks for the advice freyja. Nothing more than resting at the moment.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

OK I have spoken to the vet. Asked me many questions and came to the conclusion that because there is no sign of any discharge or pain and she is eating and drinking and playing normally and pup is still active then to give her until day 68/70 because labour can come up to 48 hours after a temp drop and she could have ovulated later. He said not to be concerned unless things pick up drastically and then nothing, or I can no longer detect movements. He thinks she can self whelp by her size and structure but has given me an emergency number for him for out of hours just incase.


----------



## miljar

Looking through this thread, have you actually enjoyed the ride so far? It seems to have been a bit of a roller-coaster, and the pups aren't even born yet. Just wondered how you are, as it has all been about the girl.


----------



## David C

Yeah sound to me like she is definitely on the way, the shedding of bedding ( nesting ) and then long sleeps in between can go on for 24 hours before she actually starts to have proper cntractions to deliver the pups. Nows the time to get everything out ready that you will need, As Freyja said put a load of newspapers in the bed for her to rip up. Ive had bitches eat right before delivering their first pup and same with the cats, My litter of kittens born early hours of Thursday morning mum ate a full dish of food at 3.40 am before delivering the first kitten at 4.01 am lol. Nows the time to put on some films and relax and chill and don't leave the house now.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

miljar said:


> Looking through this thread, have you actually enjoyed the ride so far? It seems to have been a bit of a roller-coaster, and the pups aren't even born yet. Just wondered how you are, as it has all been about the girl.


Thanks miljar, appreciate you asking how I am lol. It really has been a roller-coaster to be honest and now I honestly understand just how anxious and worried people get during the last few weeks of their poochies pregnancy. I think I have more grey hairs than my Nan at this moment in time. I just hope everything progresses well and we don't run into any complications.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Yeah sound to me like she is definitely on the way, the shedding of bedding ( nesting ) and then long sleeps in between can go on for 24 hours before she actually starts to have proper cntractions to deliver the pups. Nows the time to get everything out ready that you will need, As Freyja said put a load of newspapers in the bed for her to rip up. Ive had bitches eat right before delivering their first pup and same with the cats, My litter of kittens born early hours of Thursday morning mum ate a full dish of food at 3.40 am before delivering the first kitten at 4.01 am lol. Nows the time to put on some films and relax and chill and don't leave the house now.


Everything is within grabbing distance including towels more sheets heat blankets ect ect and of course the whelping box. I've never been so prepared! Films and relaxing waiting for that moment is definitely on the cards for me today and tonight guys.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Half 2 temp was 37.8


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Hmm I don't want to sound strange lol but her vulva seems bigger to me like more chunkier if that makes sense? Anybody have experience with this as a pending labour sign?


----------



## Freyja

Yes it will appear slightly swollen and slack to allow the pups to be born


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Freyja said:


> Yes it will appear slightly swollen and slack to allow the pups to be born


Going to stay up with her tonight keep my eyes on her and have some quality time with her. I'm also going to post a graphic pic of her vulva if OK just to get an opinion is slack like baggy? I will remove after. It's large and bulging when lay down but then goes smaller when stood. No other signs and she just had a nice bowl of food. The second pic is it earlier on to show the size difference? I feel like I'm loosing it slowly!


----------



## LadyFrenchies

I will remove them last pics soon as they are quite rude lol poor girl, I'm just sharing my dogs bits


----------



## Freyja

Yes looks to me like she is going into labour


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Freyja said:


> Yes looks to me like she is going into labour


Let's hope! This is us currently haha


----------



## LadyFrenchies

OK I think we have fluid! Haven't seen any of this before on her


----------



## David C

i think you are going to be up all night lol


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> i think you are going to be up all night lol


Haha I just said that to my mum on the phone. It's OK though I don't mind I can be a night owl if needed and have Netflix and coffee!  there isn't much fluid just that little drop tbh.... A very long night indeed.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

I have a very sleepy girl and a twitchy vulva? (dilating?) Dripping fluids but not much. I think we are on the way... Slowly


----------



## Hannahmercedes

:Nailbiting Any update? I've been following this thread sitting on the edge of my seat! I can't imagine what a ride it's been for you @LadyFrenchies


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Hannahmercedes said:


> :Nailbiting Any update? I've been following this thread sitting on the edge of my seat! I can't imagine what a ride it's been for you @LadyFrenchies


Good morning! Nope nothinggg! I lasted until 3am and crashed I literally woke an hour ago on the couch with her crashed out next to me! She's had some breakfast and has been out but noo shes totally fine. She had more discharge after going potty but that's about it :Banghead


----------



## BUDDY18

I come on here daily to see if she has had her pups yet, what a journey, fingers crossed she goes soon and it is smooth for you all x


----------



## LadyFrenchies

BUDDY18 said:


> I come on here daily to see if she has had her pups yet, what a journey, fingers crossed she goes soon and it is smooth for you all x


Thank-you! I hope so too. I think she is a couple of days behind on her dates in all honesty but only time will tell I supose. She is sleeping alot so hopefully she's resting up ready for the big moment.


----------



## David C

Is the discharge still clear?


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Is the discharge still clear?


Yep still clear. I know what colours can indicate something is wrong so eyes are peeled guys don't worry I'm on her like a halk! And google lmao


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Is the discharge still clear?


To be completely honest I'm not sure if I am seing discharge? I only seem to see watery fluid after she's had a wee. Could it be left over urine drops?


----------



## LadyFrenchies

...


----------



## mrs phas

Um sorry, but I'd be getting her to the vet now
I'd want to know what's going on and is she in any danger


----------



## BUDDY18

mrs phas said:


> Um sorry, but I'd be getting her to the vet now
> I'd want to know what's going on and is she in any danger


She spoke to the vet yesterday.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

mrs phas said:


> Um sorry, but I'd be getting her to the vet now
> I'd want to know what's going on and is she in any danger


I've spoken to the vet and was told as she's not in distress and still eating and drinking and not in pain or having contractions then to give her a few more days. Plenty of movement today also, don't get me wrong I'm also worried and wondering what's going on but she does seem completely normal at the moment.


----------



## Rafa

LadyFrenchies said:


> I think she is a couple of days behind on her dates in


If there was only one accidental slip mating on 10th January, then she was due last Thursday.

If nothing happens today, I would insist that your Vet sees her.

Try taking her for a walk.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Rafa said:


> If there was only one accidental slip mating on 10th January, then she was due last Thursday.
> 
> If nothing happens today, I would insist that your Vet sees her.
> 
> Try taking her for a walk.


Yup I understand that, he did suggest she could have ovulated later as sperm can live for a few days after the slip and to give her a few days. I have an appointment for Wednesday morning for her to be checked over but obviously if movement slows down or anything more sinister happens from now until then I will get her straight in for sure. And yes I will take her for a light walk, she's sleeping deeply at the moment snoring her head off.


----------



## Rafa

Pregnant bitches do tend to sleep more, but, from your posts, I get the impression that your bitch is spending all her time lying on the sofa.

That won't be helping.

You need to get her moving more. Take her a short walk and encourage her to follow you around the house.


----------



## David C

Yup i agree with Rafa, get her moving take her for a walk and even drive her around the block in the car as sometimes that can get things moving a bit. 
Also yes that does look like a bit of clear discharge..........touch it with your finger and rub your fingers together to see if it feels sticky


----------



## LadyFrenchies

Rafa said:


> Pregnant bitches do tend to sleep more, but, from your posts, I get the impression that your bitch is spending all her time lying on the sofa.
> 
> That won't be helping.
> 
> You need to get her moving more. Take her a short walk and encourage her to follow you around the house.


She follows me every where even if she's asleep on the couch and I move off the couch. Upstairs and kitchen garden ect she hasn't exactly been living on the sofa for the past 4 weeks.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Yup i agree with Rafa, get her moving take her for a walk and even drive her around the block in the car as sometimes that can get things moving a bit.
> Also yes that does look like a bit of clear discharge..........touch it with your finger and rub your fingers together to see if it feels sticky


Will give that a go when I next see some.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

OK we're back she had a good walk around the field. We tried out our new flexi lead and me and my daughter love it especially miss. Loved the freedom. Wasn't the best weather but she didn't mind! We even went chippy on the walk back home and she got a sneaky sausage from the lady behind the counter.


----------



## David C

Look at those bug lug holes ( ears ) they always make me laugh on frenchies lol.


----------



## LadyFrenchies

David C said:


> Look at those bug lug holes ( ears ) they always make me laugh on frenchies lol.


I love them! Definitely one of the best features on a frenchi. Bears arnt as big as hers. He has more of a teddy bears ears hence his name but they are still long just more rounded at the tip. Haha


----------



## mrs phas

BUDDY18 said:


> She spoke to the vet yesterday.


speaking to the vet, isnt seeing the vet, even if done via skype
the vet needs to get her hands on the dog and physically examine her
I certainly wouldnt be happy if my vet was fobbing me off ( if she actually is), when she is, allegedly, a maiden bitch, of a breed that is known to need c section, overdue by date of alleged mating, and. i was a novice 'breeder' with no breed knowledgeable mentor


----------



## LadyFrenchies

They are both currently playing rope tug together. He always gives up in the end a flakes out on the floor. Never gives the rope up though. Miss ends up pulling him around the floor!


----------



## LadyFrenchies

mrs phas said:


> speaking to the vet, isnt seeing the vet, even if done via skype
> the vet needs to get her hands on the dog and physically examine her
> I certainly wouldnt be happy if my vet was fobbing me off ( if she actually is), when she is, allegedly, a maiden bitch, of a breed that is known to need c section, overdue by date of alleged mating, and. i was a novice 'breeder' with no breed knowledgeable mentor


Taking a break from here. If nothing by tomorrow I will take her in!


----------



## Dogloverlou

If she's over her due date by more than a couple of days I'd be insisting on further advice/action personally. I'm not a breeder, but the breeder I got my dog from ended up losing a whole litter after they waited a few days past the estimated due date. On day 63 the pups were felt to be alive and they waited for natural labour to begin, by day 65 there was still no sign. They took her to the vet and she was scanned...all pups were dead. In the space of just a couple of days! It was heartbreaking for all concerned. 

The only other possibility is that she and your male mated later on, without you knowing, and she is not actually at full term? 

Sorry if I'm repeating anything that's already been said. Haven't read all replies.


----------



## mrs phas

Dogloverlou said:


> If she's over her due date by more than a couple of days I'd be insisting on further advice/action personally. I'm not a breeder, but the breeder I got my dog from ended up losing a whole litter after they waited a few days past the estimated due date. On day 63 the pups were felt to be alive and they waited for natural labour to begin, by day 65 there was still no sign. They took her to the vet and she was scanned...all pups were dead. In the space of just a couple of days! It was heartbreaking for all concerned.


going back over the posts, shes now 7-10 days overdue
hence my concern regarding no actual visit to the vet, rather than phone calls
obviously this could all just be a huge phantom pregnancy, but equally they may all have died ( if there were any) there could be a stuck puppy, or she couldve birthed them unseen and eaten them, or she may have absorbed them
theres loads of different things that could happen
1 or 2 overdue is one thing,7-10 days overdue is a ridiculous length of time to leave them without vet intervention
its a shame the suggestion of a blood test wasnt taken up, at least you would be sure, one way or another, and youre fears allayed


----------



## LadyFrenchies

mrs phas said:


> going back over the posts, shes now 7-10 days overdue
> hence my concern regarding no actual visit to the vet, rather than phone calls
> obviously this could all just be a huge phantom pregnancy, but equally they may all have died ( if there were any) there could be a stuck puppy, or she couldve birthed them unseen and eaten them, or she may have absorbed them
> theres loads of different things that could happen
> 1 or 2 overdue is one thing,7-10 days overdue is a ridiculous length of time to leave them without vet intervention
> its a shame the offer of a blood test wasnt taken up, at least you would be sure, one way or another, and youre fears allayed


OK.... Miss and bear may have had another or a few slips without my knowledge at a later date as I'm not the only person in the house and they they get let out together in the garden for toilet and also shared the kitchen at night. Nothing later than the 21st of Jan as we went away for a week and both dogs went to a seperate family members home. She was scanned and nothing was saw hence the thread title. A week or 2 later and she had another scan because I could see moventment and one puppy was definitely seen possibly another in the other uterine horn. The puppy is still moving and is in the same place. She is not loosing massive amounts of discharge and is not in any distress in any way. If she was she wouldn't be playing or walking she would be in terrible pain on the floor hardly moving eating or drinking. She would be violently sick and have horrible discharge if she was sooo over her date and the pup had died. We have been to the vets multiple times not just phone calls. My vet agrees that we could have the dates wrong hence why the vet has arranged the appointment for Wednesday for a further check over. A blood test was never offered to me by my vet. When I asked about that and an x Ray and a scan all were denied because it wasn't for any health reasons other than pregnancy. He said if it's a false it will naturally pass and wasn't worth putting her though more stress if she was pregnant.

No matter what owners can or can't do or even explain to some people will never be good enough will it.


----------



## mrs phas

LadyFrenchies said:


> No matter what owners can or can't do or even explain to some people will never be good enough will it.


Pardon me for being *concerned* about your dogs welfare, from what i have repeatedly read, to make sure i was posting from your point of writing

I wouldnt expect a dog, thats in the first stages of labour ( as you keep inferring) or unwell, to be roughly playing, or being allowed to play, tug with the other dog in the house, hence my words of *concern *that there either wasnt a pregnancy to start with, that its a phantom that shes coming out of, or, that shes absorbed - none of which would necessarily make her be ill, 
but,
I as an owner, would still be _*concerned*_ enough to want my vet have a hands on examination of her, out of *concern* for her ultimate wellbeing and, to discuss speying so no further 'accidents' could happen.


----------



## Rafa

LadyFrenchies said:


> OK.... Miss and bear may have had another or a few slips without my knowledge at a later date as I'm not the only person in the house and they they get let out together in the garden for toilet and also shared the kitchen at night. Nothing later than the 21st of Jan as we went away for a week and both dogs went to a seperate family members home. She was scanned and nothing was saw hence the thread title. A week or 2 later and she had another scan because I could see moventment and one puppy was definitely seen possibly another in the other uterine horn. The puppy is still moving and is in the same place. She is not loosing massive amounts of discharge and is not in any distress in any way. If she was she wouldn't be playing or walking she would be in terrible pain on the floor hardly moving eating or drinking. She would be violently sick and have horrible discharge if she was sooo over her date and the pup had died. We have been to the vets multiple times not just phone calls. My vet agrees that we could have the dates wrong hence why the vet has arranged the appointment for Wednesday for a further check over. A blood test was never offered to me by my vet. When I asked about that and an x Ray and a scan all were denied because it wasn't for any health reasons other than pregnancy. He said if it's a false it will naturally pass and wasn't worth putting her though more stress if she was pregnant.
> 
> No matter what owners can or can't do or even explain to some people will never be good enough will it.


Well, you did suggest initially that there was only one accidental mating.

I don't understand why your two dogs were together whilst your bitch was in season if you didn't want a litter of pups?

How old is your bitch?


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## miljar

This is just a chat room,and people will give you their opinions. - it is up to you what you make of them. Don't be worried by anything on here, it is not real. Be guided by the qualified opinions that you are getting from the vets - they are the ones who actually know what they are talking about. If they advise a course of action, then I would stick with that. May be best to stop posting, if it starts getting to you - many people come on here and then quickly leave.


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## LadyFrenchies

I had a rant...

If you remember I didn't no she had a season as she came from my younger brother who lives with my dad. I wasn't told until a week or so after so yes they were together but they never tied and that I no for certain. I am aware you guys are concerned so how the hell do you think I feel. Its a bit much when I try everything and still get judged.

She is just under 2 or just over 2. I need to get her papers from my brother who is still in hospital. 

And thanks miljar for the advice. I will be sticking with my vets plan and I will be sticking around. I would like to be part of a pet community and can't be pushed off here that easily.


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## Rafa

LadyFrenchies said:


> but they never tied and that I no for certain.


But you don't. You say these two dogs shared the kitchen at night so, unless you sat up all night, you don't know what happened.

This is not a case of people being mean to you. You have posted a lot and your story does change. You were adamant she was mated only once on the 10th January and yet now, you're saying she could have been mated several times after that. Your posts have been worrying in that, given your original statements, your bitch would be overdue by many days and that is not normal, and some of us are concerned about that.

In the light of what you now say, your bitch may not be overdue at all.

Let me explain that those of us who breed responsibly have two supervised, controlled matings, two days apart, so that the bitch's due date is known.

When you do what you have and simply leave the pair of dogs together, unsupervised, you really have no way of knowing what is day 63 and that can be potentially dangerous.


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## LadyFrenchies

Okok let's leave it there then. We all now know the situation. What's done is done if you want to offer advice then please do. I won't be responding to nit picking comments about every single word somebody says. This was nearly 2 months ago and alot was going on at that time. I tried helping my brother out and now a situation has developed with me making that choice and I'm dealing with it.


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## Rafa

LadyFrenchies said:


> Okok let's leave it there then. We all now know the situation. What's done is done if you want to offer advice then please do. I won't be responding to nit picking comments about every single word somebody says. This was nearly 2 months ago and alot was going on at that time. I tried helping my brother out and now a situation has developed with me making that choice and I'm dealing with it.


Happy to leave it there but it would have been a lot simpler had you been honest from the start.

There have been no nit picking comments. You did come here asking for advice. From the information you gave, your bitch would be worringly overdue and this is why some of us could not understand why your Vet is not concerned.

Of course now, knowing that your Vet is aware that your bitch could have been mated well after the 10th January, his lack of concern is understandable.

Before you feel sorry for yourself, do think about the fact that the pressure some have put on you to be more assertive with your Vet was a direct result of your insistence your bitch was only mated once.


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## LadyFrenchies

Rafa said:


> Happy to leave it there but it would have been a lot simpler had you been honest from the start.


Omg don't I know it... I was being forgetful and worried *about my brother nearly dying in the week that a dog was in season without me knowing*. Normal people don't think they are going to be criticised for missing a simple thing out on a post on a thread.


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## LadyFrenchies

I'm over this. I shouldn't have to feel like I have to explain personal familys health problems. I will update about Miss when suitable.


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## Rafa

LadyFrenchies said:


> Omg don't I know it... I was being forgetful and worried *about my brother nearly dying in the week that a dog was in season without me knowing*. Normal people don't think they are going to be criticised for missing a simple thing out on a post on a thread.


Just to be clear, I'm sorry your Brother has been so ill and hope he is recovering now.

However, you have been happily posting away on here for nearly a week and have changed your story several times. You didn't 'forget' these dogs had been running together throughout the bitch's season. You chose to hide that fact because you believed we would see your actions as irresponsible.

It is not a "simple thing" you missed on a post on a thread, it is information that could be critical to the welfare, even life, of your bitch and her pups.


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## LadyFrenchies

Rafa said:


> Happy to leave it there but it would have been a lot simpler had you been honest from the start.
> 
> There have been no nit picking comments. You did come here asking for advice. From the information you gave, your bitch would be worringly overdue and this is why some of us could not understand why your Vet is not concerned.
> 
> Of course now, knowing that your Vet is aware that your bitch could have been mated well after the 10th January, his lack of concern is understandable.
> 
> Before you feel sorry for yourself, do think about the fact that the pressure some have put on you to be more assertive with your Vet was a direct result of your insistence your bitch was only mated once.


I will never feel sorry for myself for what others think luv I'm not a child.


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## Rafa

LadyFrenchies said:


> I will never feel sorry for myself for what others think luv I'm not a child.


Okay. You post like one.

I have devoted a lot of time on this forum to helping those with pregnant/labouring bitches and their pups, but you have really irritated me.

You may well need help here if your bitch does have pups and I am now going to leave it to others to offer that advice.

Not my Circus - Not my Monkeys.


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## LadyFrenchies

Omg you are such a little warrior arnt you keep firing your opinion you only get involved on threads when yu want to cross examine people. And FYI don't you dare try and say that I new she was in a season. She wasn't my dog and was not aware of this. That's a very shady thing to say to be completely honest with you if I was trying to hide something like thay would I even bother to post a thread asking for advice... Please do me a favour and leave my thread because your opinion is not needed no longer.


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## LadyFrenchies

Rafa said:


> Okay. You post like one.
> 
> I have devoted a lot of time on this forum to helping those with pregnant/labouring bitches and their pups, but you have really irritated me.
> 
> You may well need help here if your bitch does have pups and I am now going to leave it to others to offer that advice.
> 
> Not my Circus - Not my Monkeys.


Are you joking. I have irritated you? Your accusing me of being a liar and irresponsible and critising everything I've said. I appreciated your advice and can appreciate you helping others on here but I'm simply trying to explain and stand up for myself. But yeah I'm irritating you.


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## lymorelynn

Keep personal argument out if this please.


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## Guest

LadyFrenchies said:


> They are both currently playing rope tug together. He always gives up in the end a flakes out on the floor. Never gives the rope up though. Miss ends up pulling him around the floor!


Is that male neutered?


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## Blitz

LadyFrenchies said:


> OK.... Miss and bear may have had another or a few slips without my knowledge at a later date as I'm not the only person in the house and they they get let out together in the garden for toilet and also shared the kitchen at night. Nothing later than the 21st of Jan as we went away for a week and both dogs went to a seperate family members home. She was scanned and nothing was saw hence the thread title. A week or 2 later and she had another scan because I could see moventment and one puppy was definitely seen possibly another in the other uterine horn. The puppy is still moving and is in the same place. She is not loosing massive amounts of discharge and is not in any distress in any way. If she was she wouldn't be playing or walking she would be in terrible pain on the floor hardly moving eating or drinking. She would be violently sick and have horrible discharge if she was sooo over her date and the pup had died. We have been to the vets multiple times not just phone calls. My vet agrees that we could have the dates wrong hence why the vet has arranged the appointment for Wednesday for a further check over. A blood test was never offered to me by my vet. When I asked about that and an x Ray and a scan all were denied because it wasn't for any health reasons other than pregnancy. He said if it's a false it will naturally pass and wasn't worth putting her though more stress if she was pregnant.
> 
> No matter what owners can or can't do or even explain to some people will never be good enough will it.


I have not really been following this and only read the odd post as I really do not like the attacking threads on the breeding section but may I say a couple of things.

Firstly Rafa spends many hours helping people who have whelping bitches and does it in a non judgemental way (which is not true of a lot on here)

Secondly what you say about the bitch would be in terrible pain etc if her pup had died is just not true. Vets can also be horribly wrong at times. I had a bitch who came to her due date, it was not her first litter and her normal way of approaching whelping was to pant for a bit then produce a puppy and always on day 63. She panted but then nothing more happened - ever. I took her to the vet and he said she was not ready to whelp. I either took the bitch in or phoned regularly and the vet refused to intervene. Eventually he gave her an injection to bring things on, she pressed a couple of times and nothing more happened. He said she was not ready. Eventually after a week I insisted he did a caesarian and there was a very dead puppy stuck between the two uterine horns. Lots of infection so the bitch was spayed at the same time. If I had been stronger minded and insisted on something being done the first day I would have had a live puppy but you do tend to trust your vet - and usually they are right. During the week she had been completely normal, no discharge, bright and happy, eating well, going for walks but I knew something was wrong.


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## BUDDY18

How is she today? Anything new or still all normal?  x


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## mrs phas

Udon said:


> Is that male neutered?


nothing has been confirmed by @LadyFrenchies
but we can presume he at least wasnt, as hes the, supposed, father of any pups


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## Kittynanna

Just checking in for news??


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## Guest

mrs phas said:


> nothing has been confirmed by @LadyFrenchies
> but we can presume he at least wasnt, as hes the, supposed, father of any pups


So she could have gotten pregnant at any point in the last two months if the first tie hadn't caught. Meaning who knows what her due date is?


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## LadyFrenchies

mrs phas said:


> nothing has been confirmed by @LadyFrenchies
> but we can presume he at least wasnt, as hes the, supposed, father of any pups


Please don't answer for me this is not your thread...


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## LadyFrenchies

Udon said:


> Is that male neutered?


Nope he is fully intact thank you has show lines and is bronze health tested.


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## LadyFrenchies

Udon said:


> So she could have gotten pregnant at any point in the last two months if the first tie hadn't caught. Meaning who knows what her due date is?


I wasn't aware dogs can get pregnant up to 2 months after a season... Hmm doesn't sound right

Anywayyy my dad first noticed bleeding on the 29th December.


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## LadyFrenchies

lymorelynn said:


> Keep personal argument out if this please.


Hi, can you kindly close this thread as it seems to be getting nowhere. To the people that are actually interested feel free to message me for updates. Thanks


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