# Getting bro and sis kittens, will they mate before neutering?



## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

Hi I am new to the forum and new to owning cats. In a few weeks time I will be getting 2 norwegian forest kittens who are brother and sister and will be 13 weeks old when I get them. They will be indoor cats and the thing I am worried about is them mating with eachother before its time to neuter and spay them. The breeders say it is best to wait untill they are about 6 months old before having them done and the vets say the same but I fugure the odds are they will be sexualy mature before that so I realy dont know what to do and I dont know what to look for or if I should keep them apart (which doesnt seem very nice or practical).

I have read about people getting their cats neutered etc at around 12 weeks but I dont want to do that if its going to have a bad effect on the cats.

Iv been trying to find a solution on the internet but cant realy find a definate answer as to what the best way forward would be. Maybe there is an easy way to stop them doing it but I dont know!


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Early neutering does not harm the cats. 

If I had a girl and a boy I would probably get them both done at 4-5 months to be on the safe side.


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Early neutering does not harm the cats.
> 
> If I had a girl and a boy I would probably get them both done at 4-5 months to be on the safe side.


Thanks for a quick reply. From what I had read before it seemed that would be the best option but then I read somewhere that if you have them done too early it can stop their growth and idealy I wouldnt want that to happen as one of the main reasons I like this breed is because they grow to a nice size but at the end of the day its the cats welfare thats important and not what I like.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Puddycat said:


> Thanks for a quick reply. From what I had read before it seemed that would be the best option but then I read somewhere that if you have them done too early it can stop their growth and idealy I wouldnt want that to happen as one of the main reasons I like this breed is because they grow to a nice size but at the end of the day its the cats welfare thats important and not what I like.


I looked into this for someone once asking the same question about Maine Coons. Some breeders think it stops the growth, some say it makes no difference and some say neutering early actually makes them grow bigger. No definitive answers or proof. I think if a cat is going to be big, it will be big regardless of neutering at whatever age.

The only way to really find it out for certain would be to clone a cat and see what happens. Anecdotally, my boys are MUCH much bigger than their fathers, and they were nuetered at 6 months as opposed to their dads who are not yet neutered. Maybe my boys were always going to be big, who knows.


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## Kat28 (Mar 19, 2008)

My Dad has just got 2 kittens that are brother and sister. Our vet has said as long as the males bits have dropped he will neuter him at 5 months and female at 6 months to prevent them mating. He had the same concerns and got vets advise before buying.


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

Yeah we got reccomended a vet who will neuter before 6 months old and is (pretty cheap) Not sure that sounds great lol but will go and see them I guess. Its just some say its best to wait as long as possible, some say 6 months, some say you must wait until the female has been in season (not sure if thats the correct word) and some say other things. Its all confusing.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Puddycat said:


> Yeah we got reccomended a vet who will neuter before 6 months old and is (pretty cheap) Not sure that sounds great lol but will go and see them I guess. Its just some say its best to wait as long as possible, some say 6 months, some say you must wait until the female has been in season (not sure if thats the correct word) and some say other things. Its all confusing.


I have heard many things but never about the female being in season once before (have seen that in dogs but wouldnt recommend it for cats)

I would not leave it past 6 months regardless of what other cats you have.


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## Kat28 (Mar 19, 2008)

Think a lot depends on the vet. Ours said under normal circumstances he would only do them at 6 months but with there been 1 of each sex would do the male a bit earlier to prevent any accidental matings.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Boys can be fertile for a bit after neutering so I would make sure she is done 6 months on the dot


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## missmoomoo (Jul 23, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> I have heard many things but never about the female being in season once before (have seen that in dogs but wouldnt recommend it for cats)
> 
> I would not leave it past 6 months regardless of what other cats you have.


Thats very true GW Dogs I know are recommended to wait and I always thought it would be the same for cats  but it is so not like that and I am now living with that mistake. Get them done asap. I love Norwegian forest cats, my daughters friend has 2


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## Kat28 (Mar 19, 2008)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Boys can be fertile for a bit after neutering so I would make sure she is done 6 months on the dot


She will be. He wanted them doing at same time but vet says he won't do her before 6 months.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

I had to seperate two of my kittens last month, the boy (4.5 months) was attempting to mate my girl ( just 5 months old and calling) his instinct told him what to do when I had no idea he would be ready. My advise would be to beg your vet to look at your boy and see if he can be neutered early, I don't belieive it stunts their growth and the girl can wait a bit longer hopefully. I don't know if NF girls call early, but do keep an eye on her. 

My vet was prepared to neuter another boy as long as he was fully intact and over 2kg as he was showing interest in his mother, he was just 5 months. He is now far bigger than his Mum or Dad and a lovely healthy boy. Ring around if you have a choice of vets and don't be afraid to push for them to at least look at your boy for a medical reason to wait to neuter.

I hope you have a lot of fun with your kittens, you are well organised and aware so I'm sure you won't allow any accidents to happen.

:smile5:


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

Ok so if I went and asked the vet to do them both at around 5 months would that be early enough? Can the female cat not come into season before then or do I still need to keep a close eye on them before that. I imagine that when I get them at 13 weeks old things will be ok for a few weeks. Sorry for all the questions but I am new to all this. Was only getting one kitten to start with but then was advised that they would be happier as indoor cats if they had a friend and was best to get male and female so they didnt fight.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Puddycat said:


> Ok so if I went and asked the vet to do them both at around 5 months would that be early enough? Can the female cat not come into season before then or do I still need to keep a close eye on them before that. I imagine that when I get them at 13 weeks old things will be ok for a few weeks. Sorry for all the questions but I am new to all this. Was only getting one kitten to start with but then was advised that they would be happier as indoor cats if they had a friend and was best to get male and female so they didnt fight.


I'm sure you have chosen your kittens already but 2 boys, 2 girls, or girls and boys, shouldnt have problems with fighting once neutered. I wouldnt say a boy/girl pairing was less likely to fight by no means


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

Alaskacat said:


> I had to seperate two of my kittens last month, the boy (4.5 months) was attempting to mate my girl ( just 5 months old and calling) his instinct told him what to do when I had no idea he would be ready. My advise would be to beg your vet to look at your boy and see if he can be neutered early, I don't belieive it stunts their growth and the girl can wait a bit longer hopefully. I don't know if NF girls call early, but do keep an eye on her.
> 
> My vet was prepared to neuter another boy as long as he was fully intact and over 2kg as he was showing interest in his mother, he was just 5 months. He is now far bigger than his Mum or Dad and a lovely healthy boy. Ring around if you have a choice of vets and don't be afraid to push for them to at least look at your boy for a medical reason to wait to neuter.
> 
> ...


Thankyou (and everyone else) for the information I am getting, its a great help. Its a bit hard living in a foreign country and not knowing anyone who has cats to get good info from so this is very much appreciated.


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> I'm sure you have chosen your kittens already but 2 boys, 2 girls, or girls and boys, shouldnt have problems with fighting once neutered. I wouldnt say a boy/girl pairing was less likely to fight by no means


Yeah the breeders said it was unlikely 2 girls would fight and 2 boys might but prob wouldnt and then they said in their experience they have never ever known a boy and girl fight so being new to the whole cat thing I thought it best to go with the most certain option.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

My local breeder of NFC sells her kittens already neutered and says that after several years of doing this she has never had a problem, also that the cats still grow to a full size.
Check the Cat Protection web site, they have a list of vets in all ocations who are willing to early neuter.


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## MaineCooner (Jun 26, 2011)

I have two MC girls. We had one neutered at 6 months and the other came to us already neutered at 14 weeks - the breeder's vet was prepared to neuter on the basis of weight, not age, and we all know MC's get quite big quite young.

My point though is this: the one who was neutered at 13/14 weeks is definitely the larger of the two, so it doesn't appear to have affected her size in any way at all.


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## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

neutering early stops their growth??????

This is Jack at the Essex cat show earlier this year, he was about, neutered at 14 weeks old, he was about 11 months old









And this is Bleu at about 1 year old, also neutered at 14 weeks


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

What gorgeous babies in the photos above - I love the second picture!!

I would imagine with a big breed like NFC they would be later developers than my foreign breeds, I would expect you would need to be careful from 16/17 weeks onwards. As suggested, some vets will neuter on weight not age, so try weighing the boy and phone around. Do push though, as receptionists sometimes stick to their vet's guidelines, despite there being circumstances like yours, in which a Vet might consider doing him early, if he is a well grown boy. 

The girl could call before 5 months, but I don't think that is the norm. Hopefully the odds are on your side. Although a girl could call at 4 months and a boy could be mature enough to mate at 4 months, it's a bit unlikely that both would be and that he would quickly work out the technique without you noticing as you are aware of the risks. I wouldn't keep opposite sex kittens of my breeds together for long unsupervised after about 17 weeks mind you. 

The colder and darker the girl is kept the less likely she is to call. Though I am not suggesting you keep her in a box or outdoors, obviously. Mine both called at Christmas when we had very thick snow as I turned the heating right up.

I'm sure your girl and boy will get on great, in my experience it's only my unneutered girls who don't always get on due to the hormones and the hierachy. 

Enjoy your kittens.

:smile5:


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## missmoomoo (Jul 23, 2011)

my girl is a moggie and didn't do her first call till she was about 9-10 months old so don't know if that is normal or not, but just to show that not all cats are quick developers


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

I have a brother and sister too and they will be getting done in the next month or so, I dont want to separate them and I dont want any accidents. My vet will only do it before 6 months if they are showing interest in each other so I am looking for another vet relatively close who will do it early.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

We have just had Dinah and Monty neutered at 5 months old. We were told they could be done when they reached 2kg and Dinah reached that a few weeks ago, so in they went.  It's so nice not having to worry anymore! Of course I am still worrying (about other stuff!) but it's a huge weight off my mind now I don't have to worry about accidents occurring!


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

We dont have them yet and they are only 9 weeks old but thed weight at the moment between the 2 is fairly different, they are the biggest and smallest of the litter. The boy is currently 1180g and the girl is 860g, I dont know if thats good or not but they where not very heavy when born compared to other litters.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Puddycat said:


> We dont have them yet and they are only 9 weeks old but thed weight at the moment between the 2 is fairly different, they are the biggest and smallest of the litter. The boy is currently 1180g and the girl is 860g, I dont know if thats good or not but they where not very heavy when born compared to other litters.


The boys weight is a little above average for a normal breed cat (not for a big cat though) and I would say the girl is underweight at this age. Not drastically though and I'm sure she will catch up.


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

They are from a litter of 6, I dont know if that makes a difference to their weight early on. I think he was born 77g and she was 72g they where the 2 smallest but now he is the biggest of the 6. The other litters have 4 and 5 kittens in them and average about 90g birth weight I think. But if he is above av for a normal cat I would think by the time he is 5 months he should be plenty big enough for neutering.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Puddycat said:


> They are from a litter of 6, I dont know if that makes a difference to their weight early on. I think he was born 77g and she was 72g they where the 2 smallest but now he is the biggest of the 6. The other litters have 4 and 5 kittens in them and average about 90g birth weight I think. But if he is above av for a normal cat I would think by the time he is 5 months he should be plenty big enough for neutering.


Dont really know a lot of NFC but I would have thought a large cat would have large birth weights. 90g is pretty low for a birthrate, never mind 77g  I'd be interested to see how they get on, I know mine were 2kg when I got them at 14 weeks, and 4kg by the time they were 6 months, and god knows what now lol

Most vets will be happy to neuter at above 2kg.


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Dont really know a lot of NFC but I would have thought a large cat would have large birth weights. 90g is pretty low for a birthrate, never mind 77g  I'd be interested to see how they get on, I know mine were 2kg when I got them at 14 weeks, and 4kg by the time they were 6 months, and god knows what now lol
> 
> Most vets will be happy to neuter at above 2kg.


90k to 110k is typical birth weight but can vary drastically between litters according to the Norwegian forest cat club and this litter was between 72g and 95g and the male has put on 1103g in 9 weeks. Thats about all I know apart from the breeders are registered Norwegian forest cat breeders with whatever the official thing is in this country and they have a good reputation so the pedigree is not in question at least. Guess its just a small litter.

The latest litter they have is of 5 and they where born between 110g and 120g and have the same father.

Oh and now i see the father has sired another litter :O he has been busy. Their birth weight was between 88g and 112g.


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## missmoomoo (Jul 23, 2011)

blimey... so this breeder has 3 litters at once? Is that normal in breeding cats to have that many?


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

missmoomoo said:


> blimey... so this breeder has 3 litters at once? Is that normal in breeding cats to have that many?


They obviously have different mothers and he is the only male they have at the moment, they have 3 females. They said he was going to have a break soon when we went to see the kittens as they had been using him alot lately so I guess this will be the last litter for a while.

The 3 litters are currently 9 and a half weeks, 2 weeks and the 3rd litter is just a few days old.


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

mine says 6 months - but thats due to a weight min, which one of my girls reached early ( chunky frame)and they were happy to do the op then

it was weight for anasthetic, 6 months being a guide for the weight

if NFCs are big, they will reach it early - ask the vet.


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

broccoli said:


> mine says 6 months - but thats due to a weight min, which one of my girls reached early ( chunky frame)and they were happy to do the op then
> 
> it was weight for anasthetic, 6 months being a guide for the weight
> 
> if NFCs are big, they will reach it early - ask the vet.


Hopefully. Although I am not sure if Norwegian forest cats are that big to start with or if its more that they continue to grow longer than most breeds. Apparantly they are not fully grown untill about 4 years old. I think though that the male should certainly be 2kg by the time he is 5 months. The girl could take forever.


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## Puindoors (May 19, 2011)

missmoomoo said:


> blimey... so this breeder has 3 litters at once? Is that normal in breeding cats to have that many?


As cats are usually seasonal breeders, sometimes the summer months do end up far busier with kittens, but conversly most breeders will probably have quite a few kitten free months in the winter/early spring. In addition as pedigrees are kept by the breeder till 13 weeeks old, some overlap ( if they have more than a couple of queens) is somewhat inevitable.


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## missmoomoo (Jul 23, 2011)

Puindoors said:


> As cats are usually seasonal breeders, sometimes the summer months do end up far busier with kittens, but conversly most breeders will probably have quite a few kitten free months in the winter/early spring. In addition as pedigrees are kept by the breeder till 13 weeeks old, some overlap ( if they have more than a couple of queens) is somewhat inevitable.


thanks for that  I am only used to doggy breeding (would be very frowned upon!) so that does make sense 

Sorry for hijacking the post.

I hope you enjoy your new babies and will want to see pictures when you bring them home


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

missmoomoo said:


> thanks for that  I am only used to doggy breeding (would be very frowned upon!) so that does make sense
> 
> Sorry for hijacking the post.
> 
> I hope you enjoy your new babies and will want to see pictures when you bring them home


The breeders update their site with new pics every week. Here are some of the latest that I posted in the photo gallery section 

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-photo-galleries/187495-my-norwegian-forest-kittens-get-them-about-4-weeks.html


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## missmoomoo (Jul 23, 2011)

they are gorgeous :001_wub: what are you going to call them?


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## Puddycat (Aug 28, 2011)

missmoomoo said:


> they are gorgeous :001_wub: what are you going to call them?


Onslow and Daisy :smile5:


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