# GCCF and TICA



## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Quick question for all you wonderful ladies.

I am a small hobby breeder of BSH's. all my cats are registered with the GCCF, obviously on the active register.

Bare with me this might be quite long winded 

I am thinking about applying for a cattery registration with TICA and registering my girls with them also. I know some of you ladies are registered with both so I wanted to borrow your experience.

My question is; when my queens have litters do I need to then register the kittens with the GCCF and TICA in order to obide by both of their rules? If say the prospective owners want a kitten registered with TICA am I breaking the rules of the GCCF by only registering the offspring with TICA when the stud and queen are both also registered with the GCCF! 

Do you ladies who are registered with the GCCF and TICA register your litters with both every time or do you just register them with whichever is most suited to your/the buyer's need?

Hi to everyone by the way. This is my first post of which I hope will be one of many!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Welcome to the forum ... Why do you want to register with TICA?


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Apart from the fact that im greedy 

Although a member of the British shorthair cat club, I have not yet been a member for a year so do not have a GCCF prefix. Obviously I like the idea of not needing to wait a year to have my 'mark' on my litters (I am proud of all my cats). 
I also like the layout and easiness of TICA, everything seems very easy to register online etc. 

As I said I will not be just using TICA but didn't think it would do any harm being associated with both.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Milly13 said:


> Apart from the fact that im greedy
> 
> Although a member of the British shorthair cat club, I have not yet been a member for a year so do not have a GCCF prefix. Obviously I like the idea of not needing to wait a year to have my 'mark' on my litters (I am proud of all my cats).
> I also like the layout and easiness of TICA, everything seems very easy to register online etc.
> ...


Personally I would stick with GCCF unless you want to show at TICA shows .. As your cats are GCCF register you will still have to stick by there rules , unless you permanently expirt them all over to TICA ... As for waiting a year for your prefix I have know some breeder request at six months and have been accepted .. And by the time they sort it you would probably have been a member for a year


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Go to an area club for your prefix - you'll get it straight away.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

I am slowly moving over to TICA as I personally find the GCCF too flaffy with their likes and dislikes with colours and markings especially as I breed bi colours.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

messyhearts said:


> Go to an area club for your prefix - you'll get it straight away.


I got my prefix straight away with GCCF although it was back in 2003 so maybe the rules have changed.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Cosmills said:


> Personally I would stick with GCCF unless you want to show at TICA shows .. As your cats are GCCF register you will still have to stick by there rules , unless you permanently expirt them all over to TICA ... As for waiting a year for your prefix I have know some breeder request at six months and have been accepted .. And by the time they sort it you would probably have been a member for a year


No I do not intend to permanently expirt them all over to TICA and definitely wish to remain with the GCCF.

Obviously the money of registering the kittens for both is not an issue (let's face it in the grand scheme of breeders costs it's just another small stone in a huge pool) I just wasn't 100% sure where I stood if I was a member of both.

I have contacted the club about applying for a prefix early but they are adiment I wait a year. I assume the British shorthair cat club to be one of the bigger clubs and I am wondering If they get inundated with requests (perhaps from inexperienced people) wanted a rushed through job so they have had to stick to their guns??!

Anyway, I can wait  and I will wait 

I can still show my cats with TICA without having a registered cattery with them I do believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Lucy1012 said:


> I am slowly moving over to TICA as I personally find the GCCF too flaffy with their likes and dislikes with colours and markings especially as I breed bi colours.


Yes they are Lucy, and I can see why with yours.. Tica are very laid back


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I have a prefix with both but my girl is GCCF registered, am thinking of joint registering her. Not sure about rule re registration of kits.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Milly13 said:


> No I do not intend to permanently expirt them all over to TICA and definitely wish to remain with the GCCF.
> 
> Obviously the money of registering the kittens for both is not an issue (let's face it in the grand scheme of breeders costs it's just another small stone in a huge pool) I just wasn't 100% sure where I stood if I was a member of both.
> 
> ...


 You can only do one tica show but you have to inform gccf of this, any other tica shows the cats has to be tica reg


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Lucy1012 said:


> I am slowly moving over to TICA as I personally find the GCCF too flaffy with their likes and dislikes with colours and markings especially as I breed bi colours.


I have to admit after dealing with the GCCF I was pleasently surprised at how much 'easier' things seem to be at TICA.

Lucy so when you register your kittens with TICA do you not register them also with the GCCF?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> You can only do one tica show but you have to inform gccf of this, any other tica shows the cats has to be tica reg


You don't have to have a prefix to show at any show ... It's the cat not you. Lol


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Cosmills said:


> You can only do one tica show but you have to inform gccf of this, any other tica shows the cats has to be tica reg


I see. Thank you 
I realised that the GCCF needed to be notified.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Cosmills said:


> You don't have to have a prefix to show at any show ... It's the cat not you. Lol


Haha, yeah I know this  
don't worry I'm not a complete novice I just have only ever dealt with the GCCF up until now


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Milly13 said:


> Haha, yeah I know this
> don't worry I'm not a complete novice I just have only ever dealt with the GCCF up until now


Am like you am still awaiting for my prefix only a few more months tho, first kits will be using GCCF own , .. Wot BSH to you have ?


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Cosmills said:


> Am like you am still awaiting for my prefix only a few more months tho, first kits will be using GCCF own , .. Wot BSH to you have ?


I have a Lilac cream colourpoint and a blue cream queen. I also have a blue self neuter, she was the little (ha I say little) lady whom got me involved with and loving the BSH breed


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Milly13 said:


> I have a Lilac cream colourpoint and a blue cream queen. I also have a blue self neuter, she was the little (ha I say little) lady whom got me involved with and loving the BSH breed


Oh lovely,, I adore colourpoints , have three 2 girls and my stud boy .. Two lilac and one blue ... Plus my Korat neuter..


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

My prefix is registered with both Tica and GCCF, the reason is my Siamese and Havana are both GCCF registered but my White Oriental is Tica registered due to her foreign import background and her sire was an odd eyed white, GCCF don't recognise them although I am trying to get Taylor transferred to GCCF due to the lack of Tica registered studs in a reasonable distance to take her.
We are allowed to transfer her but she will be put on the reference register meaning she can still be bred from but not shown...not a problem to us as we don't show anyway and have no intentions on showing.
At the moment though her kittens will be registered with Tica as she has recently been to a tica reg stud. 
I find it easier to register kittens with GCCF although Tica are a much more relaxed association, GCCF do seem to have some silly rules and regs and are a little too strict imo.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Cosmills said:


> Oh lovely,, I adore colourpoints , have three 2 girls and my stud boy .. Two lilac and one blue ... Plus my Korat neuter..


I think your cats look absolutely beautiful  I will have to get some pics on here soon so you can all see my fur babies. We are currently in the process of getting a stud. He is a gorgeous chunky cream boy who's sire was a Grand champion, I am so excited.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

sharonbee said:


> My prefix is registered with both Tica and GCCF, the reason is my Siamese and Havana are both GCCF registered but my White Oriental is Tica registered due to her foreign import background and her sire was an odd eyed white, GCCF don't recognise them although I am trying to get Taylor transferred to GCCF due to the lack of Tica registered studs in a reasonable distance to take her.
> We are allowed to transfer her but she will be put on the reference register meaning she can still be bred from but not shown...not a problem to us as we don't show anyway and have no intentions on showing.
> At the moment though her kittens will be registered with Tica as she has recently been to a tica reg stud.
> I find it easier to register kittens with GCCF although Tica are a much more relaxed association, GCCF do seem to have some silly rules and regs and are a little too strict imo.


Thank you for taking the time to reply  
Might I ask, did you design your website yourself? I am very impressed.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

I think I would register them all with the GCCF and only register those I was selling as show/breed quality with TICA. I think for pet ownership the GCCF would be my first and only choice because that is all they really need. Why waste money registered the kittens with both?


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

Milly13 said:


> I have to admit after dealing with the GCCF I was pleasently surprised at how much 'easier' things seem to be at TICA.
> 
> Lucy so when you register your kittens with TICA do you not register them also with the GCCF?


I haven't any dual registered queens yet, I have half with tica half with the GCCF I am pants with paperwork, but I will not be registering with GCCF I will be taking everything over to TICA. My prefix is with TICA. It is just my 3 young queens I need to move over, just need to get their certified pedigrees sorted from the GCCF. We are on a breeding break at the mo so it is on my to do list


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Sacremist said:


> I think I would register them all with the GCCF and only register those I was selling as show/breed quality with TICA. I think for pet ownership the GCCF would be my first and only choice because that is all they really need. Why waste money registered the kittens with both?


Thank you for the reply sacremist 

It would be preferable for me to only register with one governing body kittens which will be on the none active pet only register. There would be no point to the new owner having a cat registered with both if they were not showing or breeding.

I suppose I posted my question to find out if this was against the rules if you're queens and stud were registered with both to do this.

Let's say my stud and queen are registered with both and I only register the kittens with the GCCF. Am I breaking TICA rules by not declaring with them they had a litter?!

I think perhaps I will need to contact them both. I am just petrified about getting into trouble lol

Am I being silly!? :001_unsure:


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

not silly at all, as I don't and do not intend to register with GCCF I can't advise. TICA are great at replying to emails to pop them a line and just call the GCCF they are very helpful, if not somewhat money grabbing  They just charged me £13 to add the word tabby to a certificate they had to print anyhow as I had applied for change of ownership..


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Lucy1012 said:


> I haven't any dual registered queens yet, I have half with tica half with the GCCF I am pants with paperwork, but I will not be registering with GCCF I will be taking everything over to TICA. My prefix is with TICA. It is just my 3 young queens I need to move over, just need to get their certified pedigrees sorted from the GCCF. We are on a breeding break at the mo so it is on my to do list


Thanks for the reply Hun.

I think I might have over thought this  and should probably go to bed lol.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Lucy1012 said:


> not silly at all, as I don't and do not intend to register with GCCF I can't advise. TICA are great at replying to emails to pop them a line and just call the GCCF they are very helpful, if not somewhat money grabbing  They just charged me £13 to add the word tabby to a certificate they had to print anyhow as I had applied for change of ownership..


Yes, I know exactly what you mean


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

The only reason I would choose the GCCF over TICA, particularly for pet quality is because it is the better known cat fancy in the UK. Someone who doesn't show may never have heard of TICA and might feel distrustful of the paperwork. Of course, there are plenty who know nothing about the GCCF either. I think, though, anyone researching purebred ownership might on discovering the GCCF is the longer established cat fancy in the UK might feel better about a cat being registered with them. I know it would have affected my decision all those years ago when I bought my first pet Birman.

You are not being silly asking but I would check with the GCCF and TICA before making a decision.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Milly13 said:


> Apart from the fact that im greedy
> 
> Although a member of the British shorthair cat club, I have not yet been a member for a year so do not have a GCCF prefix. Obviously I like the idea of not needing to wait a year to have my 'mark' on my litters (I am proud of all my cats).
> I also like the layout and easiness of TICA, everything seems very easy to register online etc.
> ...


As you breed BSH, registering with TICA would be a good idea, as you would be able to register any longhaired variant British Longhairs that your cat produces 

You can't register them under GCCF but can under TICA


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

that is a very good point made above too.. I sooo want a BLH litter lol I have the girl just need the gene carrying stud


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Lucy1012 said:


> that is a very good point made above too.. I sooo want a BLH litter lol I have the girl just need the gene carrying stud


I will be drooling over them if/when you have them...........  :ihih:


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I would email TICA directly and ask.

Over here my cats are all dual registered with 2 associations, simply so end of year points are counted though I only tend to show with one association these days. I only register litters and kittens with one and it's not against the rules to this. 
If I weren't registering kittens at all, that would be a problem. 

Hopefully it's as simple over there, things do differ between countries. You can't register kittens without a prefix here for instance.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Ok girls I have found the answer  but before I go on to that let me just start by sharing my excitement..... 

After numerous emailing this morning I have found a Local club to sign my prefix application straight away    
I know it takes a long time for GCCF to process and approve but it's a step closer and I couldn't be happier. Thank you for all the advice about asking. After asking one club and them denying I had assumed it would be the same for all! 

In regards to the TICA GCCF question. Incase anyone ever needs to know.

It is not breaking the GCCF rules by not registering or declaring every litter with them. It is though against the trade descriptions act if you sell a kitten as pedigree and don't have the proof. By registering the kittens with TICA you are essentially providing that proof that they are pedigree so not breaking the trade description act.

IF you was not a member of TICA and just not declaring your litter with the GCCF you would need to provide the purchaser with a generation pedigree and a signed certificate of mating (regardless of weather you own the stud or not) to the purchaser so they could register the kitten if they wished at a later date (to fit in with trade descriptions).
BUT if you were to do this  the new owner would be able to put the kitten on the active register    So obviously this is appalling and should never be done!!


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Treaclesmum said:


> As you breed BSH, registering with TICA would be a good idea, as you would be able to register any longhaired variant British Longhairs that your cat produces
> 
> You can't register them under GCCF but can under TICA


Thank you, good advice


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

Treaclesmum said:


> I will be drooling over them if/when you have them...........  :ihih:


Me too!!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Milly13 said:


> Ok girls I have found the answer  but before I go on to that let me just start by sharing my excitement.....
> 
> After numerous emailing this morning I have found a Local club to sign my prefix application straight away
> I know it takes a long time for GCCF to process and approve but it's a step closer and I couldn't be happier. Thank you for all the advice about asking. After asking one club and them denying I had assumed it would be the same for all!
> ...


Yay on your prefix!

The stud you are buying will he carry cp? Or you wont get cp kittens,sorry if you already know this.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Yay on your prefix!
> 
> The stud you are buying will he carry cp? Or you wont get cp kittens,sorry if you already know this.


Yeah I do know this  it also means that any of her direct offspring which are not CP will be put on the supplementary register.

Don't apologise silly  I think it is wonderful how you ladies help everybody.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Milly13 said:


> Yeah I do know this  it also means that any of her direct offspring which are not CP will be put on the supplementary register.
> 
> Don't apologise silly  I think it is wonderful how you ladies help everybody.


Can you expand a little on why you have been told that.

I have a choc self out of a cp hes not on the supplementary register,im confused.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Can you expand a little on why you have been told that.
> 
> I have a choc self out of a cp hes not on the supplementary register,im confused.


Does his registration number start with CSSR? If not he is not on the supplementary register.

It is not a bad thing though and lots of active queens and studs are on it.

Here have a read 

the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy

I am by know means expert but this is what I have been taught to believe by my mentor


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

http://www.colourpointedbritish.co.uk/bshregpol.pdf

This explains it a bit better. I think :001_unsure:

See note 8a


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Milly13 said:


> Does his registration number start with CSSR? If not he is not on the supplementary register.
> 
> It is not a bad thing though and lots of active queens and studs are on it.
> 
> ...


No its not that its Cs808*** his mum is cp and dad blue self.

I do have a cat which starts Csref this is cause hes on ref register as hes a cp out of a cp and white parent

I have a girl reg is CS**** but both her mum and dads reg start cssr  shes a cp,dad was cp,mum was blue self


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> No its not that its Cs808*** his mum is cp and dad blue self.
> 
> I do have a cat which starts Csref this is cause hes on ref register as hes a cp out of a cp and white parent
> 
> I have a girl reg is CS**** but both her mum and dads reg start cssr  shes a cp,dad was cp,mum was blue self


Agreed it is VERY confusing


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Id call them or the breeder of the stud cause it says this;

SUPPLEMENTARY REGISTER (CSSR) 
British Shorthairs with Full or Provisional status which have within the preceding 3 generations only BSH, British Variants or Persians of the groups listed for registration on the Supplementary Register for that colour/pattern


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Id call them or the breeder of the stud cause it says this;
> 
> SUPPLEMENTARY REGISTER (CSSR)
> British Shorthairs with Full or Provisional status which have within the preceding 3 generations only BSH, British Variants or Persians of the groups listed for registration on the Supplementary Register for that colour/pattern


None of mind are CSSR 
I just assumed because of what it says in that second document I posted, that any offspring registered from a CP and self or tortie mating would be CSSR that that would automatically be the case. Obviously that is wrong and it depends on other circumstances  Genetics ay!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Milly13 said:


> None of mind are CSSR
> I just assumed because of what it says in that second document I posted, that any offspring registered from a CP and self or tortie mating would be CSSR that that would automatically be the case. Obviously that is wrong and it depends on other circumstances  Genetics ay!


Lol well I guess if you call them they will tell you.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Lol well I guess if you call them they will tell you.


Haha, the GCCF must be getting sick of me this week


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Were with GCCF,they once tried to make me pay for new white cards with correct info on on a full litter of kittens when it was her mistake  I said I don't think so I wrote it correct.

Then I was told they tried to make new owners pay for the new card..the cheek.


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## Milly13 (Apr 4, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Were with GCCF,they once tried to make me pay for new white cards with correct info on on a full litter of kittens when it was her mistake  I said I don't think so I wrote it correct.
> 
> Then I was told they tried to make new owners pay for the new card..the cheek.


They know they have us all 'under a barrel' if you ask me


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

Milly13 said:


> Thank you for taking the time to reply
> Might I ask, did you design your website yourself? I am very impressed.


Thankyou for the compliment regarding our website, yes we did design it ourselves, we have done other cat breeders sites too along with many others from window cleaning to photography.


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