# Am I a bad/irresponsible dog owner?



## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

After receiving a torrent of abuse from some people on different forum I'd like to people here..........am I cruel for breeding my chihuahua? I've taken all precautions I can and vet has checked her before as well as during her pregnancy. I av 1 thing to get for her whelping kit and I'm as prepared as I can be but I've been branded a cruel thoughtless clueless backyard breeder


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Has she been mated to another Chihuahua and how old is she?

These days, there is much emphasis placed on the importance of having any potential breeding dogs fully health tested before the event. That isn't that your vet examines your bitch and declares her to be healthy. All breeds tend to have conditions/afflictions which can be inherited by the pups, so only dogs testing clear should be used for breeding.

Do you have a mentor, someone experienced in breeding who can help and advise you?


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

I have 2 in fact, both experienced breeders of different breeds including chis, 


Sweety said:


> Has she been mated to another Chihuahua and how old is she?
> 
> These days, there is much emphasis placed on the importance of having any potential breeding dogs fully health tested before the event. That isn't that your vet examines your bitch and declares her to be healthy. All breeds tend to have conditions/afflictions which can be inherited by the pups, so only dogs testing clear should be used for breeding.
> 
> Do you have a mentor, someone experienced in breeding who can help and advise you?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I don't believe you're cruel or uncaring, but you may not have really done your due diligence before having her mated.

As she's already pregnant, it's a done deal and all you can do now is everything you can to ensure she has her pups safely, rear them well and get the best possible homes you can.

You say she's under the care of your vet, which is good, so has she been wormed and is she on a good quality puppy food?

When is she due?


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

They both say she's fine, I've taken all advice on board. I found a sire that was smaller. She had a blood test to check they wasn't related and eyes and skeleton checked too. Made sure she was a certain weight (she's actually a little heavier). I didn't just have the 1St sire available I made sure he was registered with pedigree verticals to prove breed. I really love my dog, I'd never risk her life just to make money. She's only breeding this once then being spayed.


Yelena said:


> I have 2 in fact, both experienced breeders of different breeds including chis,


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Pet owners do get very hot under the collar about breeding. 
It is very much the owner's choice, not the dogs, and pretty risky in health terms . Dogs do not hanker for babies like humans , having a litter has no health benefits for them whatso-ever.
To breed ethically and responsibly a vet health check is not enough. There are genetic tests necessary to prevent certain inherited diseases, In Chihuahuas these include luxating patella and elbows, hydrocephalus and Chiari malformation.
Was she mated to another Chihuahua ? And was he smaller than her, had he had the relevant tests ?
If you can answer yes to all these questions you have shown some responsibility in breeding. If you were unaware of all these factors and she had an unplanned mating to a random dog I'm afraid that would make you an ill-informed owner, not necessarily a bad one , and I'm afraid lays you open to heavy criticism on any pet forum. So be prepared !


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Sweety said:


> I don't believe you're cruel or uncaring, but you may not have really done your due diligence before having her mated.
> 
> As she's already pregnant, it's a done deal and all you can do now is everything you can to ensure she has her pups safely, rear them well and get the best possible homes you can.
> 
> ...


she is always wormed/flea treated on time and due. She's almost 2nhalf years old. She eats royal canon Starter mini for pregnancy. She's due 31st


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

SusieRainbow said:


> had he had the relevant tests


The KC do not advise any tests.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

SusieRainbow said:


> Pet owners do get very hot under the collar about breeding.
> It is very much the owner's choice, not the dogs, and pretty risky in health terms . Dogs do not hanker for babies like humans , having a litter has no health benefits for them whatso-ever.
> To breed ethically and responsibly a vet health check is not enough. There are genetic tests necessary to prevent certain inherited diseases, In Chihuahuas these include luxating patella and elbows, hydrocephalus and Chiari malformation.
> Was she mated to another Chihuahua ? And was he smaller than her, had he had the relevant tests ?
> If you can answer yes to all these questions you have shown some responsibility in breeding. If you were unaware of all these factors and she had an unplanned mating to a random dog I'm afraid that would make you an ill-informed owner, not necessarily a bad one , and I'm afraid lays you open to heavy criticism on any pet forum. So be prepared !


She did have a blood test, the sire was significantly smaller And he too had a blood test which I paid for. I communicate with a canine nutritionist to assure all her dietary requirements are met.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

rona said:


> The KC do not advise any tests.


I knew that and asked my vet if any tests were available. She said none were nessasary but a general health/function test could be performed at my request.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Good. If you haven't already, set up her whelping box so that she can get used to seeing it.

She should have been wormed on her 40th day of pregnancy and normally, it's advisable for a pregnant bitch to be on a good quality, complete puppy food, both before and after delivery.

The Book of the Bitch is well worth reading, it covers pretty much everything.

I hope you stay around on the forum so that we can hear how she and her babies progress.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Yelena said:


> They both say she's fine, I've taken all advice on board. I found a sire that was smaller. She had a blood test to check they wasn't related and eyes and skeleton checked too. Made sure she was a certain weight (she's actually a little heavier). I didn't just have the 1St sire available I made sure he was registered with pedigree verticals to prove breed. I really love my dog, I'd never risk her life just to make money. She's only breeding this once then being spayed.


It should av said certicate not verticals


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Sweety said:


> Good. If you haven't already, set up her whelping box so that she can get used to seeing it.
> 
> She should have been wormed on her 40th day of pregnancy and normally, it's advisable for a pregnant bitch to be on a good quality, complete puppy food, both before and after delivery.
> 
> ...


I can understand why some people get upset about breeding, I will stay on here because I want to show people I am not a backyard breeder just a beginner. We all have to start at the beginning don't we?


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

I'd say yes you are not the best breeder, but then I guess you've done a few more things than a dodgy back yard breeder but still a back yard breeder. You have endangered your pets life by putting her in pup, there is no getting away from that, bitches do die, and breeds like chis are more prone to c-sections etc than most which does increase the chances.
You've only checked the stud has papers, there are thousands of chis that do, a responsible breeder would have matched certain characteristics in their bitches line in order to try and produce the healthiest pups and to produce the best examples of the breed. You have only had a blood test to prove by the sounds of it that both parents are pure chis not that they carry any hereditary issues, and there is more to choosing a sire than going for the size! Just because you have bought a book, wormed regularly etc, which by the way are the most basic requirements of pet ownership and not something that proves you are a good owner or breeder, does not mean you should have bred your pet!

The question is why did you breed? If it is just to produce yet more pups in an already over produced breed just to make a fast buck, or just because you wanted a cute pup from your bitch for you to keep, generally people breed to continue a fantastic example of this breed, they show etc, not to make money, if you wanted a pup it would have been cheaper and no risk to your pets life to go and buy or rescue one. 
People on most pet websites like pets and people who randomly breed thier pets generally don't seem to care or have done little research or health tests, TOTALLY different to health checks from a vet which ONLY tell you wether the animal is alive and physically able to breed NOT wether you should, most folks only seem to be interested in making money so I'm not surprised you got a lot of negative responses!


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Whilst the KC don't list any recommended health tests for chihuahuas they are covered by the BVA scheme for CM/Syringomyelia and there is also a DNA test for pyruvate kinase deficiency. Ideally these tests should have been done on both the sire and dam prior to mating.

There are various heritable health problems which can't be tested for, have you researched the health of the lines you have used for things like epilepsy and heart disease?

Do you know what the ideal inbreeding coefficient is for chihuahuas and will your puppies be below that?

Other than being smaller (speaking of which, did you research the sizes of his siblings and other relatives?) is the sire the best possible compliment for your bitch? Is he likely to improve on her conformational weaknesses?

Do you know the signs of inertia, eclampsia and hypoglycaemia? 

Do you have the funds available to pay for an emergency c-section, should it be necessary?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

My only question would be why did you breed?


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I think perhaps you are naive in deciding to breed your girl - breeding is so complicated when done correctly.
I'm not a breeder and don't think I ever will be - apart from the risks to my dogs I would forever be worried about any puppies produced.
Do you have homes lined up for your pups, have you vetted them carefully, are you offering lifetime support so if there are any changes in the new families circumstances for the next 15 years will you be able to take your puppies back so they don't end up adding to the rescue crisis our country is facing?


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## StrawberryBlonde (May 27, 2015)

Although I am intrigued, i don't think any answer to 'what was your reason for breeding' would be good enough for me. I don't think your a bad owner but your not doing the thousands of dogs in pounds & rehoming centres any favours - So many other dogs need homes, we don't need people breeding for the hell of it. *Adopt, don't shop*


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Yelena said:


> After receiving a torrent of abuse from some people on different forum I'd like to people here..........am I cruel for breeding my chihuahua? I've taken all precautions I can and vet has checked her before as well as during her pregnancy. I av 1 thing to get for her whelping kit and I'm as prepared as I can be but I've been branded a cruel thoughtless clueless backyard breeder


What is she crossed with?

I don't think a vet check is sufficient. Very few vets have much experience breeding and it requires more specialist knowledge than the average vet would have. That's not a criticism of vets, they have to have knowledge about difference species much less different breeds and breeding does require specialist breed knowledge.

Why are you breeding her? You do realise that bitches don't 'want' or need to have puppies - it is purely for the owners benefit that they go through this. Is it something you are prepared to risk your bitch for?


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Bad, no. But irresponsible would depend on your reasons for breeding. If it's simply because you wanted a pup/thought your girl would make a good mum/think your dog is special and needs to produce then I'd consider those as pretty irresponsible reasons if I'm honest as every Tom, Dick & Harry is breeding their Chi's for similar reasons and therefore I don't think it's necessary for even more to contribute to that statistic without a really good enough reason to.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Bad? Probably not.

But, I can't see from your posts that there is any really good reason for breeding from your dog, and there are thousands of dogs in rescues all over the country, so:

Irresponsible? Probably.

Bit late now though


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Just for interest, not trying to argue for the sake of it, but why does the stud have to be smaller than the bitch? I have GSD and cockers, but no experience of Chihuahuas. I appreciate that you don't want a stud so big that puppies will have difficulty being born naturally, *however, *in most breeds, the male is bigger than the female, which means that to breed a smaller dog to a bigger bitch you either need an exceptionally large bitch or exceptionally small dog. If you over several generations use an exceptionally small dog aren't you going to introduce all sorts of problems? It's already a very tiny breed, surely ever smaller and smaller can't be good? And wouldn't you have to ask why the dog was exceptionally small - in anything else I have experience of mating I wouldn't be choosing a runt as the sire?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

In the very small toys the males are usually smaller and its recommended to mate to a smaller stud. There can be quite a difference there usually is in poms

Bad breeder no better than mos. Just have experienced people on hand and be prepared for a possible c-section


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

There are already a hell of a lot of Chi's needing homes in rescue


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## _Johnny_ (Apr 24, 2015)

_"Research has revealed pocket-sized pets are now the most unwanted across the country"_

handbag dogs dumped


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## Papirats (Mar 26, 2014)

Judging by the OP's latest status update I'm thinking maybe they were looking for answers they wanted to hear rather than honest ones.. I hope I'm wrong, though, and the "judgemental, self-opinionated d**kheads" is referring to the previous forum they were on.


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

_Johnny_ said:


> _"Research has revealed pocket-sized pets are now the most unwanted across the country"_
> 
> handbag dogs dumped


Although it is dreadful that so many small dogs are dumped by unthinking owners, and dreadful that the number is rising, I think that the Telegraph has misled you somewhat.
From what I can see, Staffies are by far the highest number of dogs reaching rescues each year. Here's one example, taken deliberately from the same year as the Telegraph research focused on:
Staffies top of unwanted list thanks to breeding and attacks
The only difference I can see is that it appears that owners of smaller dogs are more likely to hand them in to shelters, whereas poor staffies and staffy crosses are often simply abandoned and then picked up by the rescues.

@Yelena I don't think you are a bad person for breeding your chi, but I'm not sure you have done so for the right reasons or have undertaken enough research, but that often comes with the territory with new breeders I'm afraid.

But what's done is done, so now I am wishing you and particularly your chi, all the very best of luck.

I do hope you stay around to get help and advice if you need it and keep very close to your vets, particularly in case an emergency c section is needed.
Good luck!


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I hope you stick around to @Yelena there is a great thread in the breeding section on a little Chi right through her pregnancy and birth and now the pups have gone to homes. It will prob have some useful info for you and perhaps you may be able to get some advice from the poster.

Yes I do wish you hadn't decided to breed, but what's done is done and now you need help to ensure your Chi and her pups are safe and healthy when they come.

I'll try and find the thread.
Here you go: @biglis did really well with the whole thing, she took on a rescue who turned out to be preggers!
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/advice-required-possibly-pregnant-chihuahua.397333/


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

silvi said:


> I do hope you stay around to get help and advice if you need it and keep very close to your vets, particularly in case an emergency c section is needed.
> Good luck!





Muttly said:


> I hope you stick around to @Yelena t/


I have a feeling they won't.... given their profile..


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I don't think she was expecting the responses she got , but she did ask ......


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I have a feeling they won't.... given their profile..


Oh right, then I guess this is us: *Judgemental self opinionated d*ckheads!!! :Meh*


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Oh right, then I guess this is us: *Judgemental self opinionated d*ckheads!!! :Meh*


Man and I was nice .................


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Compared to most threads on this topic I think everyone was. She got some really constructive good advice and support.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Meezey said:


> Man and I was nice .................


Yup...and I was merely stating a fact. What she needs to think is that she said the same about all the members on the other forum too....:Facepalm


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I have a feeling they won't.... given their profile..


Oh well...
I tried to be nice


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

If you ask 'am I a bad/irresponsible owner' on a public forum you're opening yourself up for opinions on the subject. I don't understand why some people don't get that


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I did try to warn her !


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, how rude.

She came here asking for honest opinions, which she got and nobody was rude or offensive, and she was given some advice.

Isn't it strange. We are all judgemental, self-opinionated d*ckheads, so is everyone on the other forum, (which I suspect may be Champdogs), but the OP is right. Everyone else is wrong and she is right.

Oh well, we've never heard that before, have we?


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Maybe they hoped to provoke a reaction to prove we're all judgemental, self-opinionated d*ckheads and had prepared a profile in advance. Unfortunately people were quite polite in offering their opinion. Curses, foiled again. ompus


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

In not being funny but u all automatically decided I didn't k ow wot I was doing. Granted I am a newbie at breeding but I'd never deliberately put my dogs life in danger. This will be the 1st and only time I breed her. You have made me feel like I've basically bred regardless of any dangers. I merely wanted and need some advice, the last thing I needed was to be given this rubbish. I can understand some breeders and owners av opinions on my situation, I av gained some tips at least. My dog is pregnant now so I'd appreciate not to be told wit an idiot I am cos there's nothing I can do to change that. If you can't give me constructive advice then don't give me any advice at all.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Regardless of wot is said I have every intention of staying around on here.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

I didn't expect responses like that but I will deal with them I suppose.


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

Yelena said:


> In not being funny but u all automatically decided I didn't k ow wot I was doing. Granted I am a newbie at breeding but I'd never deliberately put my dogs life in danger. This will be the 1st and only time I breed her. You have made me feel like I've basically bred regardless of any dangers. I merely wanted and need some advice, the last thing I needed was to be given this rubbish. I can understand some breeders and owners av opinions on my situation, I av gained some tips at least. My dog is pregnant now so I'd appreciate not to be told wit an idiot I am cos there's nothing I can do to change that. If you can't give me constructive advice then don't give me any advice at all.


Good that you have chosen to stay around @Yelena.
But do have a look at the thread @Muttly pointed you towards:
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/advice-required-possibly-pregnant-chihuahua.397333/

It could be a good start to helping you with your chi's pregnancy and with the birth of her puppies.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Yelena said:


> In not being funny but u all automatically decided I didn't k ow wot I was doing. Granted I am a newbie at breeding but I'd never deliberately put my dogs life in danger. This will be the 1st and only time I breed her. You have made me feel like I've basically bred regardless of any dangers. I merely wanted and need some advice, the last thing I needed was to be given this rubbish. I can understand some breeders and owners av opinions on my situation, I av gained some tips at least. My dog is pregnant now so I'd appreciate not to be told wit an idiot I am cos there's nothing I can do to change that. If you can't give me constructive advice then don't give me any advice at all.


I'm not sure what constructive advice you were hoping for by posting a thread asking if you were being either a bad or irresponsible owner by breeding? You haven't asked for any advice. What you _did_ ask for is opinions on how you've gone about breeding which is precisely what people have given.

If there are specific aspects of breeding you want advice on then post asking about those but the fact remains that all these questions should be asked long before any mating actually takes place.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Yelena said:


> I didn't expect responses like that but I will deal with them I suppose.


In fairness you asked the forum a question "am I bad/irresponsible dog owner?" If you ask for opinions then you will be given them, some you will like and some you won't. The deed is done now so I wish you and your little dog all the best and hope you have decent responsible homes lined up for the pups.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Just didnt expect the replies which is my bad. I'll get over it.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Yelena said:


> In not being funny but u all automatically decided I didn't k ow wot I was doing. Granted I am a newbie at breeding but I'd never deliberately put my dogs life in danger. This will be the 1st and only time I breed her. You have made me feel like I've basically bred regardless of any dangers. I merely wanted and need some advice, the last thing I needed was to be given this rubbish. I can understand some breeders and owners av opinions on my situation, I av gained some tips at least. My dog is pregnant now so I'd appreciate not to be told wit an idiot I am cos there's nothing I can do to change that. If you can't give me constructive advice then don't give me any advice at all.


You asked the question why ask if you didn't want the answers? Want to apologise for your rather charming profile? Luckily for you there are some nice people on the forum, I'm not one of them.... Hopefully those responsible breeders on here can help make it a stress free birth for your bitch. Me the responses you get were pretty much spot on. Good luck I wish your bitch and the pups well.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

As I said, just wasn't expecting such bluntness but that was my mistake.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Glad you've changed your profile though.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Yelena said:


> In not being funny but u all automatically decided I didn't k ow wot I was doing. Granted I am a newbie at breeding but I'd never deliberately put my dogs life in danger. This will be the 1st and only time I breed her. You have made me feel like I've basically bred regardless of any dangers. I merely wanted and need some advice, the last thing I needed was to be given this rubbish. I can understand some breeders and owners av opinions on my situation, I av gained some tips at least. My dog is pregnant now so I'd appreciate not to be told wit an idiot I am cos there's nothing I can do to change that. If you can't give me constructive advice then don't give me any advice at all.


In fairness, your opening thread on here asked if we thought you were cruel and irresponsible.

Surely you know that if you ask a large group of people that question, some will think you are, some will think not and some will be undecided.

If you ask for opinions, it's a little pointless taking offence when you're given those opinions.

By all means, stay around on the forum. There are some very knowledgeable and experienced people on here, but rudeness won't bring the best out of them.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Sweety said:


> In fairness, your opening thread on here asked if we thought you were cruel and irresponsible.
> 
> Surely you know that if you ask a large group of people that question, some will think you are, some will think not and some will be undecided.
> 
> ...


Best? Lol


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

None of you are better enough to the point to hurl crap at me like that. I've said I just wasn't expecting it, u will not make me feel worse so go ahead yeah


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2015)

Yelena said:


> In not being funny but u all automatically decided I didn't k ow wot I was doing. Granted I am a newbie at breeding but I'd never deliberately put my dogs life in danger. This will be the 1st and only time I breed her. You have made me feel like I've basically bred regardless of any dangers. I merely wanted and need some advice, the last thing I needed was to be given this rubbish. I can understand some breeders and owners av opinions on my situation, I av gained some tips at least. My dog is pregnant now so I'd appreciate not to be told wit an idiot I am cos there's nothing I can do to change that. If you can't give me constructive advice then don't give me any advice at all.


Did you actually read the replies you got?
They were helpful, they answered your question, they were kind, and they were honest. What else do you want. No one berated you as an owner, simply told you the truth.

If this is the first and only time you will breed her, what was your purpose in breeding her to begin with?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

There you go again.

Exactly what is it you want? Clearly not advice, as you appear to have a very low opinion of us all.

At the beginning of this thread, if you care to read it again, I and others did try to offer you advice. As an ex-breeder, I'm always happy to offer any help I can, but I have no time for rudeness.


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

There's me thinking this was quite a tame response in comparison to others I've seen before.. and those people didn't ask for opinions, they got them anyway  you're quite lucky


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I just cant get my head around why people want to have a litter of pups the times I have heard "I am just going to let her have one litter" WHY? and are the future owners of the pup's vetted as suitable to be owners.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Sweety said:


> There you go again.
> 
> Exactly what is it you want? Clearly not advice, as you appear to have a very low opinion of us all.
> 
> At the beginning of this thread, if you care to read it again, I and others did try to offer you advice. As an ex-breeder, I'm always happy to offer any help I can, but I have no time for rudeness.


I couldn't have said it better myself. As I said at the beginning of the thread this is a topic which most pet owners feel very passionate about , you asked for opinions and got them along with advice and some encouragement. You have responded with contempt and rudeness so I wish you and your little dog good luck.and goodbye.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Yelena said:


> I have 2 in fact, both experienced breeders of different breeds including chis,


If you have 2 experienced mentors what constructive advice could you possible be looking for on a forum?


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

So, your reasons for breeding @Yelena were obviously 'just because' and therefore what many of us deem irresponsible reasons and you've taken a huff to our 'bluntness' on a question you asked of us all.......

As others have said, this thread was pretty moderate in comparison to some questions asked. But there are only a very select few who join these forums who have bred/or considered doing so with the right reasons in mind. You can understand why we then get frustrated in replying to the same old questions time after time.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Well I guess that's me told. I'm a bad irresponsible dog owner that should know better! Consider me told!


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2015)

Why did you decide to breed @Yelena ?


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Yelena said:


> Well I guess that's me told. I'm a bad irresponsible dog owner that should know better! Consider me told!


I didn't actually see anyone say that .........???


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

In the beginning I didn't want to leave but seemed to av caused quite a bit of offense. Hmmm interesting.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Yelena said:


> Well I guess that's me told. I'm a bad irresponsible dog owner that should know better! Consider me told!


Pretty much? What did you want to hear? That it's perfectly acceptable to breed your dog just because she is female? Not really sure why you asked the question? Quick look at the 100's of other threads exactly the same as yours would have told you the responses you would have got! Again most have been respectful and helpful? What advice are you looking for?????


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

SusieRainbow said:


> I didn't actually see anyone say that .........???


I didn't have to, I'm not stupid.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2015)

Yelena said:


> In the beginning I didn't want to leave but seemed to av caused quite a bit of offense. Hmmm interesting.


Okay, maybe you can give us an example of the sort of response you were hoping for?

Your dog still has to get through the pregnancy and whelping, then you have puppies to raise and homes to vet, contracts to draw up, etc. If I were you I would stick around and soak up as much information as you can.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

It doesn't seem to matter what advice i need or want, there doesn't seem any point in asking it here


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Okay, maybe you can give us an example of the sort of response you were hoping for?
> 
> Your dog still has to get through the pregnancy and whelping, then you have puppies to raise and homes to vet, contracts to draw up, etc. If I were you I would stick around and soak up as much information as you can.


Naaahh I don't need to stick around somewhere I'm going to be told how badly I've done setting wrong.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Okay bye ...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Yelena said:


> Naaahh I don't need to stick around somewhere I'm going to be told how badly I've done setting wrong.


Good. Best end to you.

You haven't actually asked for help or advice.

From what I've seen, you've been rude, insulting and controversial.

In my opinion, you're not here for any useful purpose, you're just trolling and trying to wind people up.


----------



## Guest (Jul 19, 2015)

Honestly?
You’re acting like a petulant child who’s so wrapped up in their own ego that they can’t see straight.

Take a deep breath and try reading the replies you got again. Pretend they’re addressed to someone else and see if you still see good solid advise and information dished out politely. If you can’t see that then I really don’t know what to say.

And frankly, that you refuse to answer the simple question of why you chose to breed is telling enough in itself. 

For your dog’s sake I hope you can overcome your cranialinrectus issues and at least attempt to take on some of the great information this site and its members have to offer.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Sweety said:


> Good. Best end to you.
> 
> You haven't actually asked for help or advice.
> 
> ...


----------



## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

Yelena said:


> It doesn't seem to matter what advice i need or want, there doesn't seem any point in asking it here


Everyone has answered the question you asked. I'm not sure what you were hoping for?



Yelena said:


> Naaahh I don't need to stick around somewhere I'm going to be told how badly I've done setting wrong.


You asked if you had been irresponsible. You were answered, honestly and not particularly harshly.

I'm not really sure why you're now throwing all your toys out of the pram? The only person who is going to lose out by you doing that is you. This forum is an excellent source of information but you need to grow a thicker skin if you're going to be breeding, it's a contentious issue and rightly so. It's _good_ that people have such strong opinions on it as it means people care about individual dogs and the future of dogs as a whole.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Yelena said:


> Naaahh I don't need to stick around somewhere I'm going to be told how badly I've done setting wrong.


enguin:Yawn


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Ok what would you all have me do now? Seriously what?


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2015)

Yelena said:


> Ok what would you all have me do now? Seriously what?


What I just said.
Stop, get your head out of your ass, and re-read the responses on this thread in the spirit in which they were intended. Helpful, and with your dog's best interest in mind.
Take in the responses, endeavor to learn as much as you can in the time you have left before the whelping, and put that knowledge to good use. You will have to get your bitch through the whelping, then raise those puppies in an environment that is safe and stimulating and that properly prepares them for life as pets, you will have to vet homes, draw up a contract, you have a LOT to do. You're going to need help. Garner up some humility and try to learn from those who have done this before successfully.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Take in the responses, endeavor to learn as much as you can in the time you have left before the whelping, and put that knowledge to good use. You will have to get your bitch through the whelping, then raise those puppies in an environment that is safe and stimulating and that properly prepares them for life as pets, you will have to vet homes, draw up a contract, you have a LOT to do. You're going to need help. Garner up some humility and try to learn from those who have done this before successfully.


She already has 2 experienced mentors who have experience with "many breeds including chis" so I think she already has all the help one could possibly get.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

shadowmare said:


> She already has 2 experienced mentors who have experience with "many breeds including chis" so I think she already has all the help one could possibly get.


A lot of help yes but I wanted advice from everyone or as many as cud get.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Yelena said:


> Ok what would you all have me do now? Seriously what?


Make one final post on this thread politely thanking everyone for their opinions.
Then as you haven't actually asked for any advice yet start a new thread with specific questions you have
There are so many experienced people on this forum who will be able to advise and support you through the coming weeks from now, through the whelping, weaning and finding new homes.

Best of luck for your little girl

I don't think anyone has said your a bad person just maybe naive and misinformed.


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

Yelena said:


> Well I guess that's me told. I'm a bad irresponsible dog owner that should know better! Consider me told!


To me, it looks like that is the response you were expecting to get and when you didn't get told that, in as many words, you tried to goad people even more.
Why do that, when people were actually trying to help you?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

you also posted in this thread

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/skittles-my-pregnant-chihuahua-x.403436/

you were not berated or given opinions, just encouragement to stick around. Fleur's advice is excellent. If you have specific questions then ask them and no doubt someone with experience will be kind enough to answer you.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yelena said:


> Ok what would you all have me do now? Seriously what?


Guide your girl through her pregnancy and put more thought and time into her pup's new owner's. Thoroughly vet them, have endorsements placed on their pedigrees/registration, talk and listen to your mentors ( assuming you have them and they are reliable sources of info? ) What's done is done, but you asked the question 'am I a bad/irresponsible owner' we answered, not bad, but yes your reasons we most likely irresponsible.

We all have amazing dogs whom we love dearly and think are the best. We don't all believe they 'need' to have pups as they're simply exceptional and we need to validate that with producing pups. There are other ways of appreciating and proving how amazing our dogs are


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Yelena said:


> Ok what would you all have me do now? Seriously what?


Simple. Stop being rude.

If you want advice, ask for it. If you want help, ask for it.

Stop throwing insults around.

You have not started well here. Including a huge insult in your profile is not the way if you're genuinely looking for help.

You need to heed the advice you have been given. Read back through this thread, acknowledge just how rude you've been and begin again.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

This has been asked many times on this thread "Why! did you feel the need to breed" and so far not answered,but it is done now so hope all goes well for your Chi and the pup's find good vetted home's.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

As far as I'm concerned u can stick it, no1 on here is perfect enough to the point where they can talk to someone like u do or even have the right to. My dog is pregnant now and I will do anything to ensure she is as good as possibly can be. You can think and say wot u like of course but do not make me feel like I've got total disregard for my dogs well being. U needn't reply as I don't read crap!


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

suewhite said:


> This has been asked many times on this thread "Why! did you feel the need to breed" and so far not answered,but it is done now so hope all goes well for your Chi and the pup's find good vetted home's.


U don't hope all goes well, yr the kind of person who wants something to go wrong just so u can get to say 'I told you so'


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Sweety said:


> Simple. Stop being rude.
> 
> If you want advice, ask for it. If you want help, ask for it.
> 
> ...


No longer want yr replies on my comments. Goodbye


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Sweety said:


> Well, how rude.
> 
> She came here asking for honest opinions, which she got and nobody was rude or offensive, and she was given some advice.
> 
> ...


Got ur own little gang on here haven't we lol


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Okay, maybe you can give us an example of the sort of response you were hoping for?
> 
> Your dog still has to get through the pregnancy and whelping, then you have puppies to raise and homes to vet, contracts to draw up, etc. If I were you I would stick around and soak up as much information as you can.


Stick around to be told I am doing wrong or my dog is suffering?? Naahhh


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> you also posted in this thread
> 
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/skittles-my-pregnant-chihuahua-x.403436/
> 
> you were not berated or given opinions, just encouragement to stick around. Fleur's advice is excellent. If you have specific questions then ask them and no doubt someone with experience will be kind enough to answer you.


Keep off my profile and comments please, ur opinion doesn't count to me. Click.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

Been following the thread since it was started, just didn't feel like getting involved in the drama. 



Yelena said:


> Stick around to be told I am doing wrong or my dog is suffering?? Naahhh


Alright, it sounds like you've made your mind up. You asked if you were bad/irresponsible. Why are you surprised that people have answered the question?  If you didn't want people to ask you questions and give you their opinions regarding the breeding, you could have just introduced yourself and your dog instead of asking what other's thought of your decision to breed. Nobody is going to lie to you so that you feel like a top-notch breeder without putting in the same effort as top-notch breeders do.

Give credit where credit is due. A breeder who *deserves* the praise you're* expecting* will have taken the dogs to show, titled them, had the relevant health tests done, found a suitable stud, worked with a mentor, researched for years, bred with the intention of bettering the breed as a whole, likely worked with the breeder of their own dog (as their dog will likely have had to have come from a decent breeder in order to achieve much in the show ring or sporting world), had everything prepared as best as they could and...uh...Probably not asked on an open forum what everyone thought of their choice to breed. :Wacky

If you need other people to tell you that you're not an irresponsible owner in order to feel like a responsible owner, then you probably have a guilty conscience because you know you're not all that desirable in the world of breeding. There are a million and one breeders like you. Got a dog, liked the dog, bred the dog. If this isn't why you bred her, then feel free to correct me! I don't think you've actually answered that, "why did you breed" question yet. As has been pointed out, you've got two good mentors...Ask them what they think. "I have asked them and they say I'm doing everything right", okay so why are you asking here? "I haven't asked them, I wanted to know from everyone else instead", why even have mentors if you're not going to express your concerns to them...

The people here *do* care about your dog and nobody wants to read a thread from you in a few weeks saying your dog died during whelp or anything like that. Where you got that from, I've no idea. Granted, none of us are perfect owners...But how many people who have responded to your thread have intentionally bred a dog who hasn't been proven in the show or working world and has no reason to be bred, and then asked others to judge their decision?  You've been very rude and it's no surprise that people have stopped taking your feelings into account when it comes to responding to you.

As I said...Seems like you've made your mind up. It's a shame you responded how you did...Nobody was rude to you until you became rude.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

To be honest given OP's profile now I am glad the comments make her second guess herself. Although again given as she comes across as petulant child I doubt she has enough emotional maturity to see that putting her bitch at risk coz she can isn't the best option. I also think she needs to check herself, her own comments are uncalled for. More so what she said to Sue childish and rather hateful. Rather pathetic really.....


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Yelena said:


> U don't hope all goes well, yr the kind of person who wants something to go wrong just so u can get to say 'I told you so'


As Sue works really hard with very damaged dogs, I very much doubt that she wants any harm to your girl or her pups.



Yelena said:


> Stick around to be told I am doing wrong or my dog is suffering?? Naahhh


I'm glad you have read the posts. It's obviously made you think, even though you are lashing out now, probably because you are a caring owner that's just realised the enormity of what you have done.

I wish you, your girl and her pups all the best.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

dogsaintdumb said:


> will have taken the dogs to show, titled them,


This is not the only criteria to breed


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

And that's why I included everything I could think of in the rest of that sentence, Rona. 

EDIT: I don't think I mentioned temperament/physical appearance -- those two are kind of a given IMO. I'm not sure what else you're thinking is important to consider when breeding. I listed everything I knew of, LOL. Suitable homes available? Would have thought that would be formally dealt with once the pregnancy was confirmed. Of course you meet people who are interested in a puppy along the way, but I've never actively looked for homes until the scan confirmed puppies and a healthy pregnancy.

This is going to play on my mind for ages now!


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

dogsaintdumb said:


> Been following the thread since it was started, just didn't feel like getting involved in the drama.
> 
> Alright, it sounds like you've made your mind up. You asked if you were bad/irresponsible. Why are you surprised that people have answered the question?  If you didn't want people to ask you questions and give you their opinions regarding the breeding, you could have just introduced yourself and your dog instead of asking what other's thought of your decision to breed. Nobody is going to lie to you so that you feel like a top-notch breeder without putting in the same effort as top-notch breeders do.
> 
> ...


Keep off my comments


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)




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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

rona said:


> As Sue works really hard with very damaged dogs, I very much doubt that she wants any harm to your girl or her pups.
> 
> I'm glad you have read the posts. It's obviously made you think, even though you are lashing out now, probably because you are a caring owner that's just realised the enormity of what you have done.
> 
> I wish you, your girl and her pups all the best.


Oh I realised the enormity alright. I do care about my dog, I love her so much and if I knew then wot I know now I might not have bred her, but I did. The puppies are on their way whether I like it or not so the last thing I wanted was a load of 'know-it-alls' telling me my dog will probably die or the cost is immense. I have the money if there's a problem with her whelping so I am as prepared as I possibly cud be but its not good enough for some people!


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Meezey said:


> To be honest given OP's profile now I am glad the comments make her second guess herself. Although again given as she comes across as petulant child I doubt she has enough emotional maturity to see that putting her bitch at risk coz she can isn't the best option. I also think she needs to check herself, her own comments are uncalled for. More so what she said to Sue childish and rather hateful. Rather pathetic really.....


Yep pathetic so I'll tell u again, stay off my comments


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

It's really not good enough TBH. If you'd have known then what you know now...So basically if you'd have googled it.  Are you sticking around? Several people have advised you on what to do now and how to proceed with your mistake.

You can't ask people to talk to you and answer your questions and then tell them to go away when they treat you the same way you've treated them. You've received good advice from a number of members who know what they're on about. I don't see the problem -- nobody was rude apart from you. You've literally gotten everything you have said you wanted and you're still not happy!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Yelena said:


> Oh I realised the enormity alright. I do care about my dog, I love her so much and if I knew then wot I know now I might not have bred her, but I did. The puppies are on their way whether I like it or not so the last thing I wanted was a load of 'know-it-alls' telling me my dog will probably die or the cost is immense. I have the money if there's a problem with her whelping so I am as prepared as I possibly cud be but its not good enough for some people!


As I said. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you have a good puppy rearing experience and find some lovely homes for the pups.
Please don't judge all on here as the same, that just makes you the same as those that have judged you, doesn't it?

I can tell you without a doubt that Suewhite is one of the very best 
She may sometimes get a bit annoyed, but then she goes in to save dogs from horrendous places and as I said, takes on some very damaged dogs


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

dogsaintdumb said:


> It's really not good enough TBH. If you'd have known then what you know now...So basically if you'd have googled it.  Are you sticking around? Several people have advised you on what to do now and how to proceed with your mistake.
> 
> You can't ask people to talk to you and answer your questions and then tell them to go away when they treat you the same way you've treated them. You've received good advice from a number of members who know what they're on about. I don't see the problem -- nobody was rude apart from you. You've literally gotten everything you have said you wanted and you're still not happy!


That's the thing about the internet, it's a big place so I'll find help or advice somewhere else. Some have given me good advice and regardless of wot u think I av processed it. I still believe some people want something to go wrong so they can gloat about how perfect they are. My dog WILL be ok and I do care about her despite anything anyone here says!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I've been reading this thread on and off since it was started, and i have to say i do wish people would just give the advice they have to help instead of judging.*
*To the OP, i hope your girl is doing well in her pregnancy, how long has she got to go?*


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

Yelena said:


> That's the thing about the internet, it's a big place so I'll find help or advice somewhere else. Some have given me good advice and regardless of wot u think I av processed it. I still believe some people want something to go wrong so they can gloat about how perfect they are. My dog WILL be ok and I do care about her despite anything anyone here says!!


And do not presume that I just 'googled' it.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

JANICE199 said:


> *I've been reading this thread on and off since it was started, and i have to say i do wish people would just give the advice they have to help instead of judging.*
> *To the OP, i hope your girl is doing well in her pregnancy, how long has she got to go?*


She is doing fine, it's her 58th day of the 65 on Saturday (assuming I got that right, im sure I'll be corrected if not)


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

I actually assumed the exact opposite of that, LOL. You seem to have done barely any research, or else you would have known then what you know now! I don't understand. You ask people to judge you on your ownership and ethics and when they do you get angry. I really don't understand. I don't see what the problem is with the majority of responses you've received, either. People stood up for themselves when you got defensive for no reason, and gave you whatever advice they could.

I don't know what the problem is, and I'm not sure you can tell me either. Good luck/have fun (whichever one isn't judgemental -- not being snarky, either; I just don't know which one is okay to say now) with the rest of the pregnancy and the whelp, and the raising/rehoming of pups. I actually can't speak for anybody else, but I certainly don't want to hear that your dog has become ill as a result of the pregnancy and I would never be gleeful about being "right" over something like this -- despite the fact I've not said your dog *is going to die*...Or anything similar. I like to think nobody else would be happy about being right when being right means the dog is dead.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Yelena said:


> She is doing fine, it's her 58th day of the 65 on Saturday (assuming I got that right, im sure I'll be corrected if not)


*Not long to go now then, i look forward to seeing her babies. Any idea how many?*


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Yelena said:


> U don't hope all goes well, yr the kind of person who wants something to go wrong just so u can get to say 'I told you so'


Oh!! please!! That's an awful thing to say I would never hope something went wrong with your dog and just to add I am not that sort of person at all,I understand you are pi$$ed off but don't judge someone you don't know.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

JANICE199 said:


> *Not long to go now then, i look forward to seeing her babies. Any idea how many?*


She's been scanned but couldn't be sure on exact head count. I don't intend to put any photos up of the puppies now.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

suewhite said:


> Oh!! please!! That's an awful thing to say I would never hope something went wrong with your dog and just to add I am not that sort of person at all,I understand you are pi$$ed off but don't judge someone you don't know.


Hmmm pity some of u didn't offer me that same courtesy. I don't want ur advice, I am genuinely scared out my wits about her whelp and I do not want to be shamed into wot I have done anymore.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Yelena said:


> She's been scanned but couldn't be sure on exact head count. I don't intend to put any photos up of the puppies now.


*I for one would love to see the babies. Can i just say, not everyone who is a member on here health test their dogs. But you won't hear from them because they don't want the replies like you have had. Things will calm down, they always do, just ignore the posts that wind you up.*


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

You have two mentors who have helped you from the start (?) so you have no reason to be any more scared about the birth than any other breeder who has put the same effort into their breeding as you.

You can't ignore everything that makes you feel bad; that's not how mistakes and life work. There's no reason you can't learn from your mistake and take the advice you've been given in regards to how to proceed.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Yelena said:


> No longer want yr replies on my comments. Goodbye


Stop commenting then:Hilarious:Hilarious


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

dogsaintdumb said:


> You have two mentors who have helped you from the start (?) so you have no reason to be any more scared about the birth than any other breed who has put the same effort into their breeding as you.


*But the fact is, she IS scared as would anyone who is expecting their first litter.*


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Yelena said:


> She's been scanned but couldn't be sure on exact head count. I don't intend to put any photos up of the puppies now.


  Was looking forward to seeing the little loves.

But that's up to you, I wish you and your girl all the best.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Yelena said:


> Yep pathetic so I'll tell u again, stay off my comments


It's called a thread. Not comments. We are commenting on your thread. If you don't want us to comment on your threads then don't start threads


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

dogsaintdumb said:


> You have two mentors who have helped you from the start (?) so you have no reason to be any more scared about the birth than any other breed who has put the same effort into their breeding as you.


It's the 1st time I've done anything like this. I love my dog so much so I am scared because I don't want anything to happen to her and (some of u will love this) especially through something I instigated. My mentors are only there if and when I want them and they're not likely to be able to aliviate my sense of being worried for her.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

shadowmare said:


> It's called a thread. Not comments. We are commenting on your thread. If you don't want us to comment on your threads then don't start threads


Click


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *I for one would love to see the babies. Can i just say, not everyone who is a member on here health test their dogs. But you won't hear from them because they don't want the replies like you have had. Things will calm down, they always do, just ignore the posts that wind you up.*


Do they also breed for no good reason?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Yelena said:


> It's the 1st time I've done anything like this. I love my dog so much so I am scared because I don't want anything to happen to her and (some of u will love this) especially through something I instigated. My mentors are only there if and when I want them and they're not likely to be able to aliviate my sense of being worried for her.


Do you still think your mentors are actually good mentors, now that you know a little more?

This is a genuine question not an accusation. It's just if you'd had different mentors, they may have talked you out of breeding in the first place


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

shadowmare said:


> Do they also breed for no good reason?


*As i don't grill people, unlike some, i wouldn't know. Do people really think they have the right to be judge and jury? If so, then they are sad.*
*Surely the best thing for this forum is for members to help first and foremost. *


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

rona said:


> Do you still think your mentors are actually good mentors, now that you know a little more?
> 
> This is a genuine question not an accusation. It's just if you'd had different mentors, they may have talked you out of breeding in the first place


 That's true, something I realised way too late.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Yelena said:


> That's true, something I realised way too late.


It's a problem I don't seem to be able to get through to the holier than thou on here. If all you are surrounded with are people who don't know (some say they do) and you don't know the relevant questions to ask or look for, then it's easy to still be ignorant of all of the issues that are important.

This applies to all sorts of things, not just animal breeding.

For a first time pet breeder you've actually taken more care than most.


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## Yelena (Jul 15, 2015)

rona said:


> It's a problem I don't seem to be able to get through to the holier than thou on here. If all you are surrounded with are people who don't know (some say they do) and you don't know the relevant questions to ask or look for, then it's easy to still be ignorant of all of the issues that are important.
> 
> This applies to all sorts of things, not just animal breeding.
> 
> For a first time pet breeder you've actually taken more care than most.


Ok that's it.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Yelena said:


> Ok that's it.


What do you mean?


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

I've bred JRTs previously and had a good mentor (the breeder of my first JRT) who prepared me well and was eager to assist as he was no longer able to breed due to a personal problem, but still wanted his lines to keep going and keep going well. I've never felt overly nervous for any of my bitches without good reason and I give *all* credit to my mentor. I was more confident with my first litter than I was with my last.

I definitely think a good mentor is one of the more important things to have before you breed and I'm not knocking that. I also took precautions with their health, getting them the necessary tests prior to breeding. Although they aren't a KC recognised breed, they have a lot of things to test for...

Nobody has the right to judge anybody..._Until someone asks to be judged_. I'm not sure why it's so hard to see why people were giving their honest opinions. Yelena asked for them! Nobody was rude to her until she became rude to them and the comments about judgement are getting a bit annoying -- especially since Yelena herself has judged users pretty harshly with no ground.

I'm sorry that you're offended Yelena, and I'm sorry that you're now scared for your dog, but it's nobody else's fault and you can't have a go at everyone who gives you exactly what you asked for -- their opinion. As I said, I really do hope everything goes OK (as I would say to any breeder). There is *always* a risk to the bitch and pups regardless of how good of a breeder you are.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

rona said:


> What do you mean?


*I read it as she is agreeing with you rona... might be wrong though.*


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *As i don't grill people, unlike some, i wouldn't know. Do people really think they have the right to be judge and jury? If so, then they are sad.*
> *Surely the best thing for this forum is for members to help first and foremost. *


I'm sorry have I misunderstood the OP and the name of the thread? The thread was created according to OP after she was already told honest opinions on another forum. OP wasn't looking for advice. She asked what people thought of her breeding her bitch. People told her their opinions. OP didn't like the opinions and flipped out.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

shadowmare said:


> I'm sorry have I misunderstood the OP and the name of the thread? The thread was created according to OP after she was already told honest opinions on another forum. OP wasn't looking for advice. She asked what people thought of her breeding her bitch. People told her their opinions. OP didn't like the opinions and flipped out.


*Go to the 2nd page on this thread.*


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Go to the 2nd page on this thread.*


I still don't understand ... the OP asked a question (as in the title) & people answered .... she didn't get the answers she wanted so is now having a hissy fit.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

:Yawn


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> :Yawn


*Pmsl... was that worth the effort? *


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *Pmsl... was that worth the effort? *


Not really - would have made more sense to use that time to press the ignore button


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

I've no idea what page 2 tells us, other than that it's where Yelena posted something to her profile which made it seem like she was leaving the forum without taking advice on board.

It's admittedly becoming difficult for me to follow, so maybe someone who knows what page 2 is all about can translate. 

Feeling good about your decisions and being assured that everything will be okay is no substitute for knowledge/learning/research. Putting an owner's feelings above a dog's welfare isn't something I would think of doing TBH. I know Yelena loves her dog, but I also know she made a mistake that is dangerous for her dog -- this is something which she did not know prior to this thread being started...So people told her. The mistake she made is NOBODY else's fault other than her own -- it's not anyone else's fault that she is feeling guilty and scared now. She can either take the advice she's been given to make the best of a bad situation, or she can lie to herself to feel better and hope for the best. It's as simple as that.

Nobody else is to blame for her lack of research and preparation.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

dogsaintdumb said:


> I've no idea what page 2 tells us, other than that it's where Yelena posted something to her profile which made it seem like she was leaving the forum without taking advice on board.
> 
> It's admittedly becoming difficult for me to follow, so maybe someone who knows what page 2 is all about can translate.
> 
> ...


*The OP wrote this in the 2nd page of this thread, ( sorry i don't know how to quote)*
*" In not being funny but u all automatically decided I didn't k ow wot I was doing. Granted I am a newbie at breeding but I'd never deliberately put my dogs life in danger. This will be the 1st and only time I breed her. You have made me feel like I've basically bred regardless of any dangers. I merely wanted and need some advice, the last thing I needed was to be given this rubbish. I can understand some breeders and owners av opinions on my situation, I av gained some tips at least. My dog is pregnant now so I'd appreciate not to be told wit an idiot I am cos there's nothing I can do to change that. If you can't give me constructive advice then don't give me any advice at all."*
*The OP has stated here that she wanted advice.*


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

Okay. Well why would she be asking for advice if she knew what she was doing? It's NOT anybody else's fault that honest responses made her feel bad. She feels bad because people told her she'd made a mistake.

P.S she received a lot of advice from a lot of knowledgeable people prior to the thread-wide BF ("White Chicks", anyone?) so, again, I don't see why there's a problem. She got the opinions she asked for, she got the advice she asked for, she still isn't happy.

Because she made a mistake that is potentially going to hurt the dog she cares about. And that's really harsh. I feel for her. But it's nobody else's fault that she chose to breed without doing the research to ensure the pregnancy and whelp were taken care of as best they could be.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

dogsaintdumb said:


> Okay. Well why would she be asking for advice if she knew what she was doing? It's NOT anybody else's fault that honest responses made her feel bad. She feels bad because people told her she'd made a mistake.


 *Only in some peoples eyes. Isn't it better to move forward now, and either try to help or not bother to reply?*


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

The biggest mistake she made on this forum is the thread title!!!


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

It is...Why would she ask for opinions when she didn't want them.

Again, it's nobody else's fault that she didn't think her decision through! Be it a mistake in the wording of a thread or the decision to breed, it's no one else's fault.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Yelena said:


> Keep off my profile and comments please, ur opinion doesn't count to me. Click.


No - it doesn't work like that - you post on a public forum and other people reply - they are not "your comments" and I will post just what I like thanks.

Janice the OP started another thread which I linked to earlier, in that thread she was not given opinions and a few people offered encouragement. Those of us who don't agree with her didn't comment on that thread. She then started this thread asking for opinions about whether or not she is a bad/irresponsible dog owner. Members replied to that question, they did not jump on her original thread offering opinions. When the OP didn't like the replies she became very rude and changed her profile to be very rude. She was advised earlier in this thread to get this one closed and open a new one asking for advice on specific concerns and assured that people would answer and offer help but no she came back again and was rude again accusing us of wanting to see harm come to her bitch which is an outrageous thing to say to people who love dogs.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *As i don't grill people, unlike some, i wouldn't know. Do people really think they have the right to be judge and jury? If so, then they are sad.*
> *Surely the best thing for this forum is for members to help first and foremost. *


Hold on a minute, the OP posted another thread. No one "grilled" her. No one mentioned anything other than to offer advise and luck etc. OP then took it upon herself to ask if people thought she was irresponsible etc and she got answers she didn't like!!!!!!!!!!!!! If she didn't want the answers she shouldn't have aksed.

Again Janice, you rarely offer advice or help to most in the dog section, but you and the other ones from GC are so quick to jump down here and judge others on there responses when you sniff a bit of of controversy , in fact you don't contribute to dog chat full stop............. Most people in this thread do help others daily in the dog section, and it's a bit rich yourself and others feel the need to jump in and point fingers when you are never involved in any other chat in Dog Section..............


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *The OP wrote this in the 2nd page of this thread, ( sorry i don't know how to quote)*
> *" In not being funny but u all automatically decided I didn't k ow wot I was doing. Granted I am a newbie at breeding but I'd never deliberately put my dogs life in danger. This will be the 1st and only time I breed her. You have made me feel like I've basically bred regardless of any dangers. I merely wanted and need some advice, the last thing I needed was to be given this rubbish. I can understand some breeders and owners av opinions on my situation, I av gained some tips at least. My dog is pregnant now so I'd appreciate not to be told wit an idiot I am cos there's nothing I can do to change that. If you can't give me constructive advice then don't give me any advice at all."*
> *The OP has stated here that she wanted advice.*


The OP also at the same time had put up an abusive message in her profile about forum members so yeah so she really wanted help and advice...............................


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

If you're so offended about the comments here and don't want any more replies @Yelena, why bump the thread back up? It had died right down and was falling down the page and had you left it you'd not recieved more comments.

Unless you're secretly enjoying the controversy.......


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> If you're so offended about the comments here and don't want any more replies @Yelena, why bump the thread back up? It had died right down and was falling down the page and had you left it you'd not recieved more comments.
> 
> Unless you're secretly enjoying the controversy.......


I guess she woke up with a crazy need to post several different posts just to remind everyone not to comment on her thread because she doesn't care


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

shadowmare said:


> I guess she woke up with a crazy need to post several different posts just to remind everyone not to comment on her thread because she doesn't care


Well it's a rainy old day, nothing better to do than stir us all up again I guess


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Bitch is pregnant now, and Yelena is scared for her bitch in whelp. Let's just get through this. Few basics - make sure you have time off work from a few days before due to a few days after - she may not be exactly on time. You'd be best booking a week to 10 days off if you can to be safe. Otherwise have someone the bitch knows with her, with your mobile and the vets number at hand, and your boss on standby you might need to go.

Keep her on white/cream/pale coloured blankets /towels/vetbed, so if she has a discharge it stains - otherwise if she licks herself as soon as she leaks you may not notice the onset of labour.

Quite often, but not always, the bitch will vomit on the morning of the day she gives birth. It's not definite, but if she does then be extra alert, pups are prob hours away.

She may find a quiet area, or she may scrap away at her bedding and burrow. Don't let her hide under her blanket to give birth, or scrap away at the bedding whilst the placenta is still attached to the puppy, because the placenta will stick to the bedding and the umbilical will then pull on the puppy's tummy.

Contractions will start as a ripple down her side. She may stand up and lie down again. Try to help her lie straight in her bed, not with her bum rammed up against the side or end. 

The first thing you will see coming out will be a bit of water sac - it will look like a glass marble, and may get bigger, or may burst.

Once she's having proper, strong contractions ( there's no mistaking them once she's really doing it), you want the first puppy born within an hour. Any longer and get an emergency appointment pronto. If a puppy is stuck you could lose the ones behind it as well.

She will probably pass the puppy, have a minute or so rest, then pass the placenta. Don't try to pull the placenta out by the umbilical. At this stage just nip the sac around the nose open with a finfgernail so puppy can breath air ( as long as it's in the sac it has fluid around it, and when the placenta is detached from the bitch's inside it no longer passes oxygenated blood to the puppy - when in the mum the puppy gets oxygenated blood from it's mum and doesn't need to breath for itself, once born it needs to get air into its lungs). 

Bitch should eat placenta and nibble at cord, but don't let her eat it too short or pup will haemorrhage. If she's getting too enthusiastic with biting and eating break the cord yourself and move puppy slightly away. Pull the cord between finger and thumb of both hands, one about 1 cm to 1 inch from puppy's tummy, the other further away from the puppy. The idea is to stretch and break the cord, not cut. Keep the hand nearest the puppy's tummy still holding the cord firmly for 20-30 seconds, carefully open fingers and see if any blood comes out - a slow drop is ok, but any squirting and pinch again hard.

It is normal to be 10-20 mins between puppies. She might rest when she's had a couple. A pause is ok, but if she's pushing hard for more than 20 mins and the next puppy hasn't arrived call vet as emergency - less time hard pushing before expecting to see a puppy once she's had the first, because she has "opened up" already.

Count placenta's passed - 1 placenta per puppy. She might pass 2 puppies quite quick together and then 2 placentas, or she might do one pup and placenta at a time.

Get a heat pad ready ( wrapped in something so it doesn't burn), rub puppies dry ( if she's not licking them - if she is leave them alone for her to bond, but watch her for aggression, she may not know what they are. I.e., if she's taking an interest let her do it, but stay close and supervise). If she's too busy giving birth to care, rub puppies dry with a towel, or a clean flannel per puppy, and put them on a heat pad until she's ready for them.

Have vet's number at hand, make sure you know if they do an emergency service out of hours, and if not do a dry run to the vet practice who covers nights so you know how to get there in the dark in a hurry.

That's all I can think off the top of my head for now, sure others will think of stuff I've forgotten or not thought to mention. 

Good luck.


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