# Odd growling - any ideas?



## si99 (Jan 6, 2012)

My 2 year old labernese is exhibiting an odd behaviour and I don't know how seriously to take it. 

He's a behaviourally healthy dog in every way (except this one) - very gentle, very submissive to all humans, extremely intelligent, absolutely adores being cuddled. 

Problem (which is very recent) is that when my partner goes to cuddle him sometimes he displays his usual very submissive body language, moving in for a cuddle, head low - but can't seem to stop himself making a low growl. It's almost as if it were a purr - but I don't know what to make of it. 

He's very much a daddy's boy because his mum is out during the day, so most of the walks, feeding etc are done by me - however, there's no way he's being dominant or aggressive towards my girlfriend - his body language is just so submissive. 

We've tried disciplining him as soon as the noise happens - it stops straight away once we address it and he moves in even closer for cuddles, upset that he's been told off. 

It only happens when he's very tired - when he's had a lot of exercise etc during the day. 

Could be that he just wants to sleep and is telling my girlfriend to leave him alone? But then it's accompanied by such submissive body language - so we're confused! What we don't want to do is just let him "win" if he is telling her what to do. 

Any ideas? Suggestions gratefully received!


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## Dober (Jan 2, 2012)

Hmmm....this is a difficult one to diagnose over the internet, as dogs have such a wide vocabulary of different noises. Could you possibly video it and post it on YouTube for us to see?

Dobermann tend to be quite vocal; whenever I move or cuddle my boy he makes this long, growly kind of purr, but I dont think you could mistake it for an actual aggressive growl.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

si99 said:


> My 2 year old labernese is exhibiting an odd behaviour and I don't know how seriously to take it.
> 
> He's a behaviourally healthy dog in every way (except this one) - very gentle, very submissive to all humans, extremely intelligent, absolutely adores being cuddled.
> 
> ...


I'm not a dog trainer/behaviourist so I won't pretend I have the answer, but I don't think you should be doing this, if the dog thinks he will be punished for vocalising his feelings he may react without a warning growl & just snap instead next time


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## rottiemum (Apr 12, 2011)

No advice really...just wondering what is a labernese? And can we see a pic?


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## rottie (Jan 1, 2012)

maybe he is not submissive, maybe he tries to avoid her (head low but facing in other direction). I think you should respect his wishes and just let him relax/sleep so tell her to avoid cuddling him when he is tired. 

I cuddle my dog, I kiss him, I hold him in my arms...only for a little while, because all of this displays of affection make me happy, not him. He is a dog and he appreciates more a walk, playing or just relaxing near the humans.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

rottiemum said:


> No advice really...just wondering what is a labernese? And can we see a pic?


It's a lab x Bernese mountain dog


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## rottiemum (Apr 12, 2011)

SLB said:


> It's a lab x Bernese mountain dog


Thanks!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Don't cuddle him. Problem solved.

He obviously doesn't enjoy it, and is making his feelings known via his body language and vocalisations. Telling him off will suppress the behaviour, but not the motivation behind it.

Carry on as you are, and you may push him into biting.


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## choclabwoody (Dec 23, 2011)

Hi
My dog makes mad whining sounds whilst he is yawning at the same time especially first thing in the morning whilst jumping on me to get me up. I then have to fight him off in a playful manner and he still makes the funny whining sounds.

So it's hard to say without hearing what your dog sounds like, maybe it's his way of saying he wants a cuddle.


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## Dober (Jan 2, 2012)

I dont think its very fair to say that just because a dog is making a noise, its obviously not happy with the situation and is going to bite. Granted, you are just going on the information you have, but there are a whole HOST of complex noises dogs make and without a very advanced knowledge of animal behaviour (which I'm not saying I have or you dont have) mistakes could easily be made.

What I'm trying to say is that different dogs and breeds can be different (I'll try and get a video of my boy purring for reference purposes) I dont think its very helpful to immediately flame someone for not being able to accurately read body signals or identify types growls!

Another example:

Animals: Dog Growls Have Deeper Meaning : Video : Discovery News


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Dober said:


> I dont think its very fair to say that just because a dog is making a noise, its obviously not happy with the situation and is going to bite.


I agree. A lot of people mistook Ruperts growling as something to be worried about, it wasn't. He growled when he wanted attention, when he wanted to go out, when he was trying to entice you to play, when he was enjoying fusses, when you told him to do something and at various other times. He wasn't being aggressive, he just liked the sound of his own voice. I used to have conversations with him 

There is no way for us to tell over the internet whether this is a dog growling because he's not happy or whether it's just a talkative dog though. We can't see his body language or what exactly is going on. Submissive body language does not mean a dog is happy, in fact a lot of what people see as submissive behaviour is the dog screaming out that it isn't happy with a situation and is trying to avoid it.

How is the dog when he goes to your partner for affection rather than her going to him?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

It all depends on what sort of growl it is, which is something we don't know. Dogs will growl when they are playing, doesn't mean they are going to bite. Some dogs will purr with a sort of low rumbling growl - my Joshua did this. A warning growl is often accompanied by a slight baring of the teeth, but not always.

Personally I think he is just purring, but if she is at all concerned she should stop the cuddles straight away. You should never, ever stop a dog from growling no matter what the reason. This his way of saying he is not happy and to back off. Stop this and he will go straight for the bite with no warning.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

My dalmatian has such a range of noises. He is very vocal. When he wants a fuss he makes a very gentle low growl, almost a sigh or as newfsmum says a "purr"... My friends kids say he is saying "love you"


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## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

I agree most definitely that a problem cannot be diagnosed over the internet, and indeed it can be incredibly risky to speculate without seeing the dog.

BUT from what has been said, I take this as this dog is not comfortable with cuddles (at particular times from this particular person, sometimes my dog likes cuddles sometimes he doesn't - fair do's!)

He exhibits 'submissive' body language when approached for a cuddle.

I am just speculating here without seeing the full body language. But head low could easily mean the dog is trying to _avoid_ the close contact rather than actively seeking it. This accompanied by the growl could likely be the dog saying 'im not comfortable with this interaction, please move away'

I know lots of dogs 'talk' and again without seeing this dog this could be what he's doing, but I would be very careful that you do not cause this dog to escalate his possible 'please move away' behaviour into full-blown 'get out of my face' snapping behaviour. And indeed if you punish and/or ignore the growl you will make the dog escalate his behaviour. His body language has been ignored, his growl has been ignored so you may end up leaving him with no choice but to up the ante into something that really cannot be ignored


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

si99 said:


> My 2-YO Lab x BMD is exhibiting an odd behaviour... I don't know how seriously to take it.
> 
> He's a behaviourally healthy dog in every way (except this...) - very gentle, very submissive to all humans,
> extremely intelligent, absolutely adores being cuddled.
> ...


dogs don't PURR. :eek6: i don't care who claims this. 


si99 said:


> He's very much a daddy's boy... mum is out during the day, so *most... walks, feeding etc, are done by me* -
> however, there's no way he's being dominant or aggressive towards my girlfriend - his body language
> is just so submissive.
> 
> ...


WHAT, pray tell, does 'discipline him' mean?!?!

& no matter what it means, i'd suggest U *STOP IT* immediately: growls are critical info, 
*i'd never, ever punish a growl.* they are pearls beyond any price - we need them, 
IMO & IME they are to be heeded, not ignored, & should never be punished in any way.



si99 said:


> It only happens when he's very tired...
> Could be that he just wants to sleep & is telling my girlfriend to leave him alone?
> But then it's accompanied by such submissive body language - so we're confused!


conflicting signals from a dog often mean MIXED EMOTIONS; i'd err on the side of caution, 
& stop triggering the growl - by avoiding the actions that elicit it. They're not dog-specific behaviors, 
& they're primarily to satisfy OUR human / primate desires for contact, control, & so on. 
i'd simply quit doing that - Problem solved. :thumbsup:



si99 said:


> *What we don't want to do is just let him "win" if he is telling her what to do.*
> 
> ...Suggestions gratefully received!


:scared: :eek6:    :sad: STOP channeling the Dawg-Wrassler, is my very-first suggestion!

it's not about WINNING - the dog is uncomfortable; my SECOND suggestion is stop those cuddles, period. 
if this is a hug as the dog stands between her knees, an arm round his neck as he lies on the sofa, 
WHATEVER it is that triggers the growl - just stop doing that.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Doolally said:


> ...I'd be very careful that you do not cause this dog to escalate his possible 'please move away' behaviour
> into full-blown 'get out of my face' snapping behaviour.
> 
> And indeed if you punish and/or ignore the growl you will make the dog escalate his behaviour.
> ...


what s/he said! :thumbsup: Bang on the target, i think.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

there are lots of dogs who make various noises, from whining up near the bat-radar range of soundwaves 
to deep grunts, groans of pleasure, moans, roars, etc - but dogs as a species don't PURR. 

purring is a very specific kind of sound, the label describes a sound made by the small cats - 
big cats roar, they cannot purr; small cats cannot roar, but can purr. Purrs are produced both 
on the inhale & during exhale, they are a continuous sound; dogs' growls are on the exhale only, 
as are any related / similar sounds made by dogs - they cannot 'growl' whilst inhaling. 

my Akita rumbled at 3 or 4 people over her entire lifetime - as distinct from a GROWL - 
but her body-language was entirely different from anything that would be associated with a growl, 
her tail was waving loosely, her eyes squinted, her ears were down & face was open & relaxed, 
her body was curvy & soft... She only did this when she saw someone she had not seen in a while, 
& of whom she was very fond.
Akita-rumbles are a breed-specific behavior.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> there are lots of dogs who make various noises, from whining up near the bat-radar range of soundwaves
> to deep grunts, groans of pleasure, moans, roars, etc - *but dogs as a species don't PURR. *purring is a very specific kind of sound, the label describes a sound made by the small cats -
> big cats roar, they cannot purr; small cats cannot roar, but can purr. Purrs are produced both
> on the inhale & during exhale, they are a continuous sound; dogs' growls are on the exhale only,
> ...


ffs it is more than obvious both newfie and I have more than a little knowledge about dogs. Any one with the smallest command of English would realise our use of "purr" was merely a description, a likening to a sound of contentment


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> there are lots of dogs who make various noises, from whining up near the bat-radar range of soundwaves
> to deep grunts, groans of pleasure, moans, roars, etc - but dogs as a species don't PURR.
> 
> purring is a very specific kind of sound, the label describes a sound made by the small cats -
> ...


No, Terry, I didn't mean literally purr, I meant a contented noise which can sometimes be a low rumble and I have had people mistake it for a growl.

If I had a dog that could purr, then I would be in the papers with him, selling my story and making lots of money


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> ...I didn't mean literally purr, I meant a contented noise which can sometimes be a low rumble
> and I have had people mistake it for a growl.


i didn't think that *U* did, Newf-Mum.  but some other folks might do so - 
there have been literal claims that dogs *'purr'*, including a pretty-notorious UTube clip of a Rottie 
with a tense stiff body being hugged by a woman - his owner! - while he growls, with hard eyes & closed mouth; 
she insists that he 'purrs' & "loves to be hugged"... yeah, right, we can see that. 


newfiesmum said:


> If I had a dog that could purr, then I would be in the papers... selling my story & making lots of money.


i'll be happy to be Ur USA-agent - i have contacts in local-radio & PBS-tv, plus i can write copy 
for several pet-magazines.  i can't take promo-photos, but there's a good photographer here - 
of course, with black Newfs, they'll just look like a lump of charcoal fur with a pink tongue, anyway, 
:lol: no matter who takes the publicity-stills. 
let me know when the miracle happens... :thumbsup: i'm ready to go national!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> i didn't think that *U* did, Newf-Mum.  but some other folks might do so -
> there have been literal claims that dogs *'purr'*, including a pretty-notorious UTube clip of a Rottie
> with a tense stiff body being hugged by a woman - his owner! - while he growls, with hard eyes & closed mouth;
> she insists that he 'purrs' & "loves to be hugged"... yeah, right, we can see that.
> ...


I remember that Rottie - he was definitely growling, not at like the noise Joshua used to make.

I shall go try teach these two to purr - we can make a fortune:lol:


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> i didn't think that *U* did, Newf-Mum.  but some other folks might do so -
> there have been literal claims that dogs *'purr'*, including a pretty-notorious UTube clip of a Rottie
> with a tense stiff body being hugged by a woman - his owner! - while he growls, with hard eyes & closed mouth;
> she insists that he 'purrs' & "loves to be hugged"... yeah, right, we can see that.


That was one scary video :scared: I remember seeing it linked elsewhere and there were so many people defending that woman, saying that the dog was enjoying it and that Rotties are just talkers!


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