# Teachers strike!



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Just had a letter saying theres a teachers strike next wednesday  why when there are hundreds of thousands of people outa work do they not realise how lucky they are to have a bloody job! there aint many jobs with holidays every bloody 2 minutes!


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

well i think everyone should have the right to strike but i'm afraid i have no sympathy with some professions that are on strike next week as i think their wages are alot higher than most,they want to try living on the ridiculously low wages some do who cant afford to live never mind contribute to their pensions,as this is mainly what its about.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I usually am in support for people that have to strike to make a point but not this time,we help pay for there pensions which to me seem very good pensions


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

When we retire we are most likely gonna have stuff all pension wise! These people already have pension plans i dont give a stuff how little they are getting to be fair they are in a job in this climate, they wanted to be in the profession they are in, tough luck!


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

But part of being in their chosen profession as a teacher was the pension package?


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## Golgotha_tramp (Feb 27, 2011)

My sister is training to be a teacher at the moment and strikes are playing heavy on her mind.

She needs to pick a union to join as you need representation (you can choose not have it but you have no support for anything without a union rep and, as she will be teaching 16 yr olds +, sexual harassment, assault etc are more common) and if they decide to strike you *have* to strike.

She doesn't want to join but discussing it with her tutors they have told her without a union rep she will be a scape goat and put first in line for the chop by all union teachers (as she will be unprotected). To me the unions are like cartells, the leaders seem so out of touch with the real world.....


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## xxsarahpopsxx (Sep 30, 2009)

I quite agree with why they are striking. It does not just affect all of the well paid professions but all of their support workers as well. My mother is an additional needs auxillary and does not get paid well at all. She would be expected to work more hours yet would lose roughly £1500 a year from her pension - they are just managing to survive on their wages just now so how on earth are they gonna survive on that much less? And she wasn't going to strike at all as she is specifically attached to one wee girl and she didnt want to let her down as she has a few problems and has only just started my mum after 4 months with her. However a blanket closure of the local schools have now come into place so she is now striking.

It is all point of principle in that they are looking towards the future and can't afford to lose that amount of money when things are set to get more expensive


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## Cav1 (Dec 18, 2010)

I dont think its fair - I'm going to have to take unpaid time off from work as I dont have anyone to look after my kids


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Cav1 said:


> I dont think its fair - I'm going to have to take unpaid time off from work as I dont have anyone to look after my kids


Exactly how many parents will be in the same position! Ridiculous!


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

I can understand why they are striking


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## sarelis (Aug 29, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Just had a letter saying theres a teachers strike next wednesday  why when there are hundreds of thousands of people outa work do they not realise how lucky they are to have a bloody job! there aint many jobs with holidays every bloody 2 minutes!


My sentiments exactly! So many people are out of work or facing pay cuts or having their hours cut, everyone is struggling at the moment. I'm still off work from my op so luckily I will be home, but I really feel for people who will have to take unpaid time off or pay for childcare because of this strike action.


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## Rhiannon68 (Oct 26, 2011)

My 15yr old daughter is in the middle of her exams and needs to be in school not stuck at home, I know only too well she wont use the time to revise unless I take a day off to stand over her


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## sarelis (Aug 29, 2011)

Rhiannon68 said:


> My 15yr old daughter is in the middle of her exams and needs to be in school not stuck at home, I know only too well she wont use the time to revise unless I take a day off to stand over her


Not good at all


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## KirstyD (Jun 19, 2011)

Im not a teacher, but I am affected by the same govenment workers pension cuts. I am a care worker. I work at a home for elderly people, my anual wage is not quite £10000 I work lots of weekends and evenings. There is roughly speaking a 75% chance that I wil end up with a long term work related injury (probably to my back) because of the nature of my job.

If the local school closes for a few days it will gain more attention than Carers are able to (after all we cannot close the Home) but may also result in us getting a better deal.

Just putting forward another side to the debate!


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## Rhiannon68 (Oct 26, 2011)

:


sarelis said:


> Not good at all


Her parents evening is still going ahead on that evening but no school all day :incazzato:


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

I don't know why it's a shock really, wthe 30th has been a well publicised day of action across many unions. Just because there is a job shortage doesn't mean public sector workers should remain silent and let the government take advantage of the situation... It's a sector that isn't always well paid and the proposed changes mean working more for less benefit.

I'm lucky enough to work in the private sector... But those working to help our communities are the ones being hit and we as the general public are too blinkered on our own lives to see how those we rely on are being targetted and punished simply because they are in the governments reach


They go into their jobs because they want to help ppl, not to get rich. They simply want fair treatment.

It's also the first time heads are striking... That's how seriously they are taking this.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

Savahl said:


> I don't know why it's a shock really, wthe 30th has been a well publicised day of action across many unions. Just because there is a job shortage doesn't mean public sector workers should remain silent and let the government take advantage of the situation... It's a sector that isn't always well paid and the proposed changes mean working more for less benefit.
> 
> I'm lucky enough to work in the private sector... But those working to help our communities are the ones being hit and we as the general public are too blinkered on our own lives to see how those we rely on are being targetted and punished simply because they are in the governments reach
> 
> ...


Totally agree.
Did anyone else hear they are trying to stop the 15 funded hours?


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

The money that the government want public sector workers to pay extra (3bn) is the Almost the same amount that cancelling the bankers bonus tax would have generated.


Is that fair on those who we entrust our children's future to? Or our health services?



Edit: also the level of outrage their strikes generate is an indication on how much their work effects our lives and how we rely on them... Yet we are happy for them to be taken advantage of and financially punished, and expect them to just accept a crappy deal for their future when we no longer have a use for them after they retire.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Im in the same position as Kirsty D, m not a teacher but yes i do work in the public sector 

do i want to strike - no but unfortunately it has got to this stage, will i lose money yes. Im far from being on one of the highest paid grades, it makes me laugh they said the average annual salary for public sector is 25,800 - i'd love to be on this amount, ask a school dinner lady, cleaner, 

Perhaps then, not having a wage increase for the last three years wouldnt matter. One option to consider is perhaps for everyone to come out of the pension scheme and do our own investments surely we can do no worse than what the government are investing our money in. My oh is also in public sector so yep thats two losts of money lost.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

I've just rang my daughters school and 2 teachers have said they are going on strike, however they are currently remaining open.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Yes I agree with the strike, and I think it would be very sad day for freedom if certain professions were banned from striking just because some parents will have to take a day off to look after their own children. 

It's all very well saying that there are people worse off than teachers but that doesn't change the fact that teachers entered the role under a certain package of pay and pension. I'm sure if the people complaining about the strike had their pay or pension reduced after they took on a job they would be the first to be up in arms!

Lastly, I have a thing or two to say to people who think teachers are paid well: just training to be a teacher is a hard slog of 6 years study not to mention thousands of debt. As for the holidays, they are rarely just holidays and even if they were it compensates for the fact teachers live and breathe their work; my Mum is in school from about 7:30am until 6pm, she works her lunch break so doesn't have a rest at all in the day. Then she comes home and does another 1-2 hours of schoolwork in the evening. I'd like to see these people who think teaching is easy try it themselves, then we could all have a good laugh when they fall flat on their faces. There's good reason why it's called a 'profession'.


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## ebonyblack (Sep 16, 2011)

Grace_Lily said:


> Yes I agree with the strike, and I think it would be very sad day for freedom if certain professions were banned from striking just because some parents will have to take a day off to look after their own children.
> 
> It's all very well saying that there are people worse off than teachers but that doesn't change the fact that teachers entered the role under a certain package of pay and pension. I'm sure if the people complaining about the strike had their pay or pension reduced after they took on a job they would be the first to be up in arms!
> 
> Lastly, I have a thing or two to say to people who think teachers are paid well: just training to be a teacher is a hard slog of 6 years study not to mention thousands of debt. As for the holidays, they are rarely just holidays and even if they were it compensates for the fact teachers live and breathe their work; my Mum is in school from about 7:30am until 6pm, she works her lunch break so doesn't have a rest at all in the day. Then she comes home and does another 1-2 hours of schoolwork in the evening. I'd like to see these people who think teaching is easy try it themselves, then we could all have a good laugh when they fall flat on their faces. There's good reason why it's called a 'profession'.


I couldnt have said this any better. My OH works really hard. Half term breaks are for him to catch up on his sleep and he's nearly always ill. Teachers dont just work 8:45 to 15:20. Sean can leave for work at 7:30 and most times doesnt get back till 19:30. Again....

"I'm sure if the people complaining about the strike had their pay or pension reduced after they took on a job they would be the first to be up in arms!"


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

I can't believe tbh how some people can only think of themselves in this situation, it is one day that you will have to look after your children when the people that teach your children everyday & give them the education that you want them to have are fighting for the rights that they deserve! 

I doubt anyone on here who are making such comments would be happier to work more years for less money to come out with afterwards, give me a break guys come on. No one would & the public sector always get hit the hardest for everything because they can do it. I find it unfair & wish people could just support them for once!


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

ebonyblack said:


> I couldnt have said this any better. My OH works really hard. Half term breaks are for him to catch up on his sleep and he's nearly always ill. Teachers dont just work 8:45 to 15:20. Sean can leave for work at 7:30 and most times doesnt get back till 19:30. Again....
> 
> "I'm sure if the people complaining about the strike had their pay or pension reduced after they took on a job they would be the first to be up in arms!"


Snap with my Mum! I think it's because they work so hard during term time when half term comes around they get knocked for six and it all catches up with them. I think some people also forget that the schools are open in the holidays for good reason - the teachers still have work to do even if the children aren't in.

It really isn't just a job, you have to be *so* committed to the profession and the children in your class.


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## ebonyblack (Sep 16, 2011)

Also I asked Sean last night...would you cut down on all your after school activities and mentoring? Stop giving your classroom as a free homework room whilst you are meant to be on your lunch break, Stop parent learning evenings? 

No...he said...because its more than a Job...its for the kids. 

Disgruntled parents I ask you...would you want a disgruntled teacher teaching your kids? or one that gives that little bit extra because they have been treated fairly with their working conditions. 

Ill-informed comments make me :mad5:


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Imo the strikes should be regulated and there should be enough staff left in schools to care for the children, even if the children are not taught anything just looked after. 

Lets take the average working single parent, they either have to have unpaid leave or put their child into childcare which is so ridiculously priced these days that the likelyhood is will be paying more than their hourly rate! To any household a days wage is a big whack that most cant afford to loose!


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Imo the strikes should be regulated and there should be enough staff left in schools to care for the children, even if the children are not taught anything just looked after.
> 
> Lets take the average working single parent, they either have to have unpaid leave or put their child into childcare which is so ridiculously priced these days that the likelyhood is will be paying more than their hourly rate! To any household a days wage is a big whack that most cant afford to loose!


Sadly for parents (teachers are also parents in many cases Inc those not striking will be off for child care) if they were regulated in this way it would make the strike pointless.... The bigger the effect the better they are heard! It is a day of expense for you, and the entire retirement years of public sector workers... Can you see where their focus will be.? No one is happy about the situation, but it's been made unavoidable by the governments un willingness to be reasonable.

Blame the govt not the teachers.


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## ebonyblack (Sep 16, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Imo the strikes should be regulated and there should be enough staff left in schools to care for the children, even if the children are not taught anything just looked after.
> 
> Lets take the average working single parent, they either have to have unpaid leave or put their child into childcare which is so ridiculously priced these days that the likelyhood is will be paying more than their hourly rate! To any household a days wage is a big whack that most cant afford to loose!


I understand what you are saying and can imagine what a nightmare it can be for parents/a parent, but unfortunately, you have to make an impact to cause change...otherwise things will get swept under the carpet and there will be no change. Frustration should be at the government not the teachers.


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## ebonyblack (Sep 16, 2011)

Savahl said:


> Sadly for parents (teachers are also parents in many cases Inc those not striking will be off for child care) if they were regulated in this way it would make the strike pointless.... The bigger the effect the better they are heard! It is a day of expense for you, and the entire retirement years of public sector workers... Can you see where their focus will be.? No one is happy about the situation, but it's been made unavoidable by the governments un willingness to be reasonable.
> 
> Blame the govt not the teachers.


I wrote my post obviously when you pressed sent  Well said


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

It's not just teachers who are striking, it is all public sector workers. Some of the selfish, "Boo hoo it's affecting me so it must be wrong" or, "We pay their wages so they shouldn't strike" comments on here really make my blood boil. :mad5:

These are workers who rarely strike becaue their job is to look after you and yours - eg your kids at school, you and your family when you are ill etc etc - and the very fact that it will affect your life when they strike just shows how important their job is. These are people who face the seamier side of life regularly. They work long hours for low wages. Their pay has been frozen for five years to pay for the mess the country is in - a mess that is as much yours as it is theirs. These are people who have paid into a pension scheme all their lives, and who are now being told that this pension is not going to be what they had paid into and planned for - not because of market forces, but because the government wants to use money they have paid into their pension scheme for something else (probably making some more rich people even richer somewhere).

So if you have to take care of your own kids for one day because these people are striking in order to redress the unfairness, instead of whining about it and blaming them, try supporting them and putting the blame squarely where it belongs - ie blame this shambolic excuse for a government.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

My daughter got a letter yesterday from her childrens school to say the teachers will be on strike next wednesday,,,, i normally have children when teachers take a day off for teacher training day, but i have hosp appt that day, so my daughter will need time off while i am at hosp,,,,,,,, other mums will also need to take the day off, so the company she works for will suffer with out the staff that day,,,,,,, people like teachers want to make a protest then in my view they should do so during school holidays, They went into teaching to teach children ,not make them scapegoats when the teachers chose to strike.:mad5::mad5::mad5:


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Obviously its the governments fault! The strike doesnt affect me, infact it will save me petrol getting to the school BUT my point is there are hundreds of thousands of people out of work barely getting by..and there are people barely getting by who bloody work their @rses off for barely nothing!
Yet these strikes still go ahead..the pensions are likely to change several times over before alot of these people who are striking retire, if it were me, personally i would think my self lucky that i was in employment!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I have to admit, my ex-husband was/is a teacher, and he did little or nothing towards the job overall. He scraped through Uni while I supported us financially, and sat on his backside for the holidays, or ran around with other women, I think he's a head of department now, not a good representative of the profession overall though.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Everyone needs to be in support of this, even if it does cause an inconvenience to parents, if this is not won, then a new teacher would be losing just over £35,000 by the time he/she retires, its up to all parents to be in support to make sure we get quality teachers in the future.

I will be striking, no i dont like striking and feel we as much as the children need to be in school, but i am striking because its unfair not to when people are losing a days wage and i could benefit from it.

Also if they are allowed to get away with this, what will be the next thing, maybe something that will effect people who arnt effected be this.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Everyone needs to be in support of this, even if it does cause an inconvenience to parents, if this is not won, then a new teacher would be losing just over £35,000 by the time he/she retires, its up to all parents to be in support to make sure we get quality teachers in the future.
> 
> I will be striking, no i dont like striking and feel we as much as the children need to be in school, but i am striking because its unfair not to when people are losing a days wage and i could benefit from it.
> 
> Also if they are allowed to get away with this, what will be the next thing, maybe something that will effect people who arnt effected be this.


i support them all the way...and hope they have a positive outcome to some extent at the end of it..

sometimes people have to make a stand...if they don't ...they will carry on and take until there is nothing left to take..


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

How can parents be asked to support this,,, for many of them they will have to either lose a days pay or have to pay for childcare for that day,,,, so all that is happening is parents and children are being made to suffer ,,so many parents are trying to make ends meet with money these days so its an expense many of them can really not afford.


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## LyndaDanny (Jan 23, 2011)

I am a Civil Servant and I felt strongly enough about this to strike for the first time ever in June, and will be on strike again next Wednesday. My pension benefits were part of the terms and conditions of my employment. I have no objection to paying higher contributions into my pension, for approx 7 years longer than I expected to, providing I receive an increased pension as a result. To be told that my pension will actually be reduced despite this is what has brought me and countless others out on strike. Public sector workers are an easy target for the Government to claw money back from. Hence the 2 year pay freeze I am just coming out of. It's the principle of it that I have an issue with. And can I just remind people that us public sector workers are also taxpayers?


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

paddyjulie said:


> i support them all the way...and hope they have a positive outcome to some extent at the end of it..
> 
> sometimes people have to make a stand...if they don't ...they will carry on and take until there is nothing left to take..


Thankyou we take a lot of stick generally, thinking we have long holidays, days off for training some even think that when the kids go home so do teachers, when it snows we have to close schools and again more stick and than we get parents saying in the next breath " they dont know how we do the job".


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## sarelis (Aug 29, 2011)

Sorry but I can't see how one group of overworked, underpaid striking people who cause more financial hardship to other overworked, underpaid people by their actions is going to help anyone? This is not going to affect the politicians in their ivory towers, it's going to affect struggling parents who are also suffering because of the monumental f**k up the government has made of this country.


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## sarybeagle (Nov 4, 2009)

Whilst I sympathise for those striking and their reasons for doing so I am annoyed at the same time as my sons schools closed meaning I'll now be cutting my hours down that day = loss of earnings and the remaining carers having to cover us working mums rounds which will hit the elderly needing care.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

Because it causes the government problems & money if people strike therefore it is in their best interests to keep the public sector happy or strikes will keep happening & causing them problems.

I totally support what they are doing personally i'd be pissed if it happened to me so why should you start slagging them off just because you aren't one of them. You wouldn't understand so don't comment on it out of selfishness on one day no working, they don't get paid it eithe,r there is obviously a reason they are willing to lose a days pay.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

sarelis said:


> Sorry but I can't see how one group of overworked, underpaid striking people who cause more financial hardship to other overworked, underpaid people by their actions is going to help anyone? This is not going to affect the politicians in their ivory towers, it's going to affect struggling parents who are also suffering because of the monumental f**k up the government has made of this country.


Cos it's the only tool they have to make their voice heard.


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## sarelis (Aug 29, 2011)

sarybeagle said:


> Whilst I sympathise for those striking and their reasons for doing so I am annoyed at the same time as my sons schools closed meaning I'll now be cutting my hours down that day = loss of earnings and the remaining carers having to cover us working mums rounds which will hit the elderly needing care.


Exactly, the knock on effect is going to hit so many people hard.


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

Tough **** at the end of the day, if they do nothing then they lose a lot & will keep getting hit because the government can and no one questions it, it's just one bloody day fighting for what they deserve!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

LauraIzPops said:


> Tough **** at the end of the day, if they do nothing then they lose a lot & will keep getting hit because the government can and no one questions it, it's just one bloody day fighting for what they deserve!


i'm not sure what hours teacher get paid for and what teachers don't...when we were taking action we found a work to rule worked pretty well  and eventually when we went on strike our main aim was to cause disruption, lets be honest thats what it is about.....and it worked for us


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## Oscar chases ducks (Nov 23, 2011)

Sorry sent it twice by accident!


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## Oscar chases ducks (Nov 23, 2011)

Thought this explained nicely how hard Teachers work and why they're are taking this action

The Guardian on Facebook

Why I will be a striking teacher on 30 November | Caroline Ryder
My profession gets a lot of stick, but teachers work damned hard for our money and deserve respect &#8211; not a pensions cut

I am a teacher. You must remember &#8211; they had them when you were at school: tall person, stood at the front, usually shouting, that kind of thing. I'm one of those. And though Wednesday 30 November should be a normal, boring school day, it's highly likely that I will not be going into work and neither will most of my colleagues, because we will be on strike. The last time we went on strike, a lot of otherwise seemingly pleasant people seemed rather angry with us and made comments, which, on the whole, did not show much understanding of our motivation for striking. Because I'd like that not to happen this time, I've made my own little contribution toward the task of explaining exactly why we are likely to strike on 30 November.

I got out a calculator and worked out that superficially, on my current income, I earn around £18 an hour &#8211; if you think I work a standard 40 hour week, that is. Imagining I get to school at 8am and leave every day at 4pm, and do this for 40 weeks (because I have so very many weeks off every year, of course), the total number of hours worked is 1,600. How lazy of me &#8211; the OECD worked out that in 2010 the average worker in the UK actually put in 1,647 hours.

Except that we need to add in some other bits.

Presentation and parents' evenings easily add about 30 hours a year to my total (and that's a fairly generous underestimate, in truth). I leave school at 4pm on a Friday if I'm lucky &#8211; there are department meetings, year team meetings, development team meetings, after-school detentions and after-school clubs pretty much every other day of the week, which make 5pm a much more likely time to leave school most days. Marking 30 books or essays doesn't happen quickly and has to be done regularly; likewise, lessons do not plan themselves, especially if you have learners with special needs. A conservative estimate of the time I spend working outside normal school hours would be around 15 hours per week &#8211; multiplied by 40 weeks, there's an extra 600 hours on my total. These are hours almost all of us work, all the time, whether you realise it or not. There is a reason we tend to get frosty when people snidely comment on our "long holidays" and "3 o'clock hometimes".

Not counting the days I give up of my own volition, for the likes of weekend trips and extra coursework sessions, my hours-per-year work total is closer to 2,250 than 1,600 &#8211; that's over 25% more working time than the average UK worker, no matter how the holidays average out (and yes, we put in some work in the holidays, too). It also means I'm earning something like £12.88 per hour. That is by no means to be sniffed at &#8211; I have a good standard of living and I am grateful for it &#8211; but perhaps you get the message that I, and every other teacher I know, work damned hard for that money.

I would modestly state that I do my job quite well. In terms of targets, which the government seems to think are the ultimate measure of whether one is a good teacher or not, the number of GCSE students in my department achieving a grade C or above surpassed our set goal by 10%. My sixth-form students succeeded, and two went on to university to further study the subject I taught them. But there were other things that went well, things the government doesn't measure. I stopped a child from being bullied and got another into counselling, for example. I got a class full of badly behaved boys to settle down and actually try to achieve something; they now want to learn, something they scorned a year ago. I coached colleagues who were going through tough times to help them pull it together and do their best for their students.

No one gave me a bonus for these things, and I didn't ask for one because I don't expect or need it. The idea, however, that bankers who did their jobs so spectacularly badly that the whole country is suffering for it went on to receive hundreds of thousands, even millions of pounds in bonuses, is one I find a teensy bit irksome &#8211; particularly when the government then proposes cutting my pension to help mop up the mess.

I may moan about having no time, and get stressed out about marking and record keeping, and roll my eyes at initiatives to cajole Ofsted into rating our school better than average &#8211; but I do love my job. Some days I come home and am too physically, emotionally and mentally exhausted to do anything but get straight into bed, but I can't imagine enjoying any other profession as much as mine. I want to carry on doing it as long as I can, and I want to have the enthusiasm and energy necessary to help young people learn as much as they can, as well as they can.

This is why it's hard to carry on regardless when you are consistently put down as not being good enough, and given more to do with less time in which to do it, and told you are worth less money for your efforts. This is why it's demoralising to be told you should keep giving as much of your time and energy as you do already until you are nearly 70. This is why I'm fed up enough with the way my profession is being treated to do something about it.

I can't say for sure whether the coffers are empty or not. But does that mean I shouldn't strike? Not even slightly.

Striking is not a dirty word. Striking is not the fallback of the workshy. Striking is not lazy, selfish, stupid, pointless, antagonistic, communist nor any of the other criticisms I heard levelled at us last time we downed tools. Going on strike is one of the very last ways we have in the current world of work to make people who might otherwise forget remember the fact that we are doing our best. A strike is not unreasonable &#8211; it is a stand for belief in yourself and your coworkers. It is a demand that those at the top remember they would not be there without you. It is a thoroughly timely reminder that you will not be ridden over roughshod and keep smiling through it. It is a powerful weapon that we do not wield often, and it should not be scorned and denigrated by those with whom the government reminds us "we're all in this together".

We do a good job. We deserve respect. Going on strike is our chance to remind the government of this, whether it changes anything for us in real terms or not &#8211; and I for one can't wait to stand up and shout it at them.

Typical teacher, eh?


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

_"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me."_

It's a shame we don't all have the same guts to stand up for what is right. If we did, no one would be "lucky" to have a job... there is enough wealth in the country for everyone to have a job and a pension etc etc.

If you do not have the stamina to stand up for yourselves.. at least have some respect for those who do.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Just had a letter saying theres a teachers strike next wednesday  why when there are hundreds of thousands of people outa work do they not realise how lucky they are to have a bloody job! there aint many jobs with holidays every bloody 2 minutes!


Its not just teachers though is it its dinner ladies, bin collectors, admin staff and a multitude of public services staff who deserve a decent pension. I support the strikes!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

hazel pritchard said:


> How can parents be asked to support this,,, for many of them they will have to either lose a days pay or have to pay for childcare for that day,,,, so all that is happening is parents and children are being made to suffer ,,so many parents are trying to make ends meet with money these days so its an expense many of them can really not afford.





sarelis said:


> Sorry but I can't see how one group of overworked, underpaid striking people who cause more financial hardship to other overworked, underpaid people by their actions is going to help anyone? This is not going to affect the politicians in their ivory towers, it's going to affect struggling parents who are also suffering because of the monumental f**k up the government has made of this country.


Exactly! People will only suffer over these strikes the givernment wont listen, there is literally no point what so ever! If anyone thinks that david cameron things anything about the normal working class folk then im sorry you can think again!
How many times do bon men go on strike and various other public sector workers? but hey i guess its a day off work!


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Exactly! People will only suffer over these strikes the givernment wont listen, there is literally no point what so ever! If anyone thinks that david cameron things anything about the normal working class folk then im sorry you can think again!
> How many times do bon men go on strike and various other public sector workers? but hey i guess its a day off work!


A day off unpaid...it's not like a holiday

But hey ho they won't listen so why bother. Let's everyone roll over and accept whatever crap they dish out like good little workers...


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Good for them I say, and not sure why people are complaining about having to take a day off work to look after their own kids, because the way I see it, Schools are a place to be educated, not a child minding service, and shouldn't be relied upon... What do people do when they are at work and the children are poorly at school? 

Look at the positives, you loose a days hours, which means less tax to take off you, at the end of the month, so your probably not loosing as much as you think. I work 10 hours a day, 4 days a week, and If I have a day off it's barely noticed at the end of the month, because the less tax paid counterbalances the loss of hours.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

hazel pritchard said:


> How can parents be asked to support this,,, for many of them they will have to either lose a days pay or have to pay for childcare for that day,,,, so all that is happening is parents and children are being made to suffer ,,so many parents are trying to make ends meet with money these days so its an expense many of them can really not afford.





sarelis said:


> Sorry but I can't see how one group of overworked, underpaid striking people who cause more financial hardship to other overworked, underpaid people by their actions is going to help anyone? This is not going to affect the politicians in their ivory towers, it's going to affect struggling parents who are also suffering because of the monumental f**k up the government has made of this country.





sarybeagle said:


> Whilst I sympathise for those striking and their reasons for doing so I am annoyed at the same time as my sons schools closed meaning I'll now be cutting my hours down that day = loss of earnings and the remaining carers having to cover us working mums rounds which will hit the elderly needing care.


It's called support for some of your fellow-human beings who happen to need it.

See, that's the thing about support: you give it when it's needed and then you receive it when you need it - at least you will receive it when you need it unless you come across people as self-seeking as some on here.



Elmo the Bear said:


> _"First they came for the communists,
> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
> 
> Then they came for the trade unionists,
> ...


Crikey Elmo - we agree on something


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

harley bear said:


> Exactly! People will only suffer over these strikes the givernment wont listen, there is literally no point what so ever! If anyone thinks that david cameron things anything about the normal working class folk then im sorry you can think again!
> How many times do bon men go on strike and various other public sector workers? but hey i guess its a day off work!


How exactly do you think all these rights, terms and conditions, pension, pay etc came about in the first place... you think the Government woke up one day and thought _"oh.. we must look after the workers.. what shall we give them?"_

It's a good job the people that struggled to give you the rights you have didn't think "there's no point whatsoever"... there clearly was and we should be grateful they did...


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

harley bear said:


> When we retire we are most likely gonna have stuff all pension wise! These people already have pension plans i dont give a stuff how little they are getting to be fair they are in a job in this climate, they wanted to be in the profession they are in, tough luck!


Actually 

I qualified as a primary school teacher but couldn't get a job in teh current climate. I was then made redundant due to labour withdrawing T2G funding and had to give up education as I needed to pay rent, eat and live.

I found myself in my current job and when I started I accepted the terms and conditions of the Local Government Pension Scheme (LGPS) I paid my monthly contributions to a scheme they are now wishing to change.

I do not do the job I do out of choice I do it as I'd rather work than live of benefits.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

Savahl said:


> I don't know why it's a shock really, wthe 30th has been a well publicised day of action across many unions. .


http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/201690-day-action-30-11-11-a.html

yep  I did try to warn you all


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

My son is a soldier, hes had a paycut for being overseas,,but he cant strike, he chose his job and just gets on with it.and no doubt if he lives long enough to draw his pension that will be cut aswell.


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## sarybeagle (Nov 4, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> It's called support for some of your fellow-human beings who happen to need it.
> 
> See, that's the thing about support: you give it when it's needed and then you receive it when you need it - at least you will receive it when you need it unless you come across people as self-seeking as some on here.
> 
> I never said I didn't support it, in fact I said I can understand why they're doing it. I pointed out my concerns for caring for the elderly as majority of our team is made up of mums with school aged kids. If they all have to take a day off it leaves us short meaning visits delayed/rushed.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

hazel pritchard said:


> My son is a soldier, hes had a paycut for being overseas,,but he cant strike, he chose his job and just gets on with it.and no doubt if he lives long enough to draw his pension that will be cut aswell.


The people who are going on strike are people who usually never go on strike because they - like your son - are serving the people of their country. The fact that they are now desperate enough to be striking should show you how serious things are. And your son may be fighting for his country, but without people back home fighting for his rights as a civilian then you are right - his pension will probably be cut. So instead of decrying the people who are fighting for their - *and your son's *- rights, you should be supporting them.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

hazel pritchard said:


> My son is a soldier, hes had a paycut for being overseas,,but he cant strike, he chose his job and just gets on with it.and no doubt if he lives long enough to draw his pension that will be cut aswell.


Many of those affected by the proposed pension cuts are Police Officers who also can't strike... but those people who will be on strike will not begrudge those officers the protections won on their behalf. Solidarity is a very powerful think and it is only undermined by greed and apathy (plenty of the latter round here me thinks).

BTW ... there are many more groups than just teachers on strike and...

... those complaining that the schools being shut means they'll have to look after their own kids for the day should remember that education is not child care.

I pay tax for both education and to subsidise child care yet have no children... I could say you're not having my money and you should be happy with what you've got and pay for your own kids education and care... but I don't... because I think solidarity and mutual support is the right thing to do.

Someone also said on here that the private sector can't strike!!.... I assure you they can and do.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Today i have seen my daughter upset because it looks like she will lose a days pay(which she cant afford to do) because she has to stay and look after her children on wed,,,,, many people are hanging onto their jobs by a thread, because of cutbacks.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

hazel pritchard said:


> Today i have seen my daughter upset because it looks like she will lose a days pay(which she cant afford to do) because she has to stay and look after her children on wed,,,,, many people are hanging onto their jobs by a thread, because of cutbacks.


Not many can afford to lose a day's pay.... but less can afford to lose a pension. The tens of thousands of public servants that have already lost their jobs because no one fought for them will have shed more than a few tears.

There are thousands who can't afford the joy of having children because their jobs have been taken away.

The issue is not one of workers "holding the public and taxpayers to ransom"... workers are the public and taxpayers.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

hazel pritchard said:


> Today i have seen my daughter upset because it looks like she will lose a days pay(which she cant afford to do) because she has to stay and look after her children on wed,,,,, many people are hanging onto their jobs by a thread, because of cutbacks.


Most of the people who are striking are also in the same boat - plus their wages have been frozen since the coalition came into power. And don't forget' they too will be losing a day's pay - but they feel there are some things bigger in life, some things worth fighting about, than one day's pay. Instead of your daughter crying, why doesn't she do something to help? She could write to her MP and tell him how she feels - the more complaints the government gets about the strike, the more effect it will have.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

harley bear said:


> How many times do bon men go on strike and various other public sector workers? but hey i guess its a day off work!


Yeah a great day off work like a holiday huh? 

It's an unpaid day off it serves NO benefit to those striking. I've always said one person cannot make a difference but many can change the world.

In my town the ferry that goes between Cornwall and Devon is advising of strike action. This means that foot passengers cannot get to work. It means that those who drive will have to make a 30 minute trip to go over the bridge. It means that thousands will not be able to go to work and you know what it makes me laugh as people take these services for granted they assume that those in public services are there to serve them... "I'm alreeet jack!!" attitide.

So yeah strikes are there to inconvenience people as it shows just how flipping lucky you are that you have bin men to take your s**t away, how lucky you are to have teachers, dinner ladies and teaching assistants to look after your kids, how lucky you are to have people to process your Blue badge, how lucky you are to have someone who sorts out your council house or council tax benefit, how lucky you are that roads are kept safe, how lucky you are that your children have safe play parks to play in, how lucky you are that someone goes around to tidy up the streets after drunks have trashed it in the early hours, how lucky you are that you have people who dig graves and ensure your loved ones' graves and resting places are kept clean.

Oh and while we are on it...



> Everyone's taxes are used to pay for all public services - stethoscopes in hospitals, the salaries of primary school teachers, people to change the light bulbs in street lamps, and part of these people's pay is their pension.
> 
> A pension is part of someone's salary package and is no different than an annual salary, a car, or the London weighting allowance. It's not fair to change something in a job contract after someone accepted the job.
> 
> One in five people working in the UK works in public services. They are taxpayers too. ~ Unison (2011)


If I wanted to get on my high horse I could moan about how unfair it is that MY taxes are paying to educate YOUR kids... I don't have children so why should I pay for your kids' education?? oh yeah because that is how it works


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

hazel pritchard said:


> My daughter got a letter yesterday from her childrens school to say the teachers will be on strike next wednesday,,,, i normally have children when teachers take a day off for teacher training day, but i have hosp appt that day, so my daughter will need time off while i am at hosp,,,,,,,, other mums will also need to take the day off, so the company she works for will suffer with out the staff that day,,,,,,, people like teachers want to make a protest then in my view they should do so during school holidays, They went into teaching to teach children ,not make them scapegoats when the teachers chose to strike.:mad5::mad5::mad5:


You do realise the point of a strike is to cause disruption and be heard? It's a last resort when all else has failed. Striking in the holidays would be totally pointless and have no effect whatsoever.

Yes they went into the profession to teach, they also signed up for terms of employment which are being altered without their consent. I'm not sure what you mean by making the children 'scapegoats', that doesn't even make sense 



harley bear said:


> Obviously its the governments fault! The strike doesnt affect me, infact it will save me petrol getting to the school BUT my point is there are hundreds of thousands of people out of work barely getting by..and there are people barely getting by who bloody work their @rses off for barely nothing!
> Yet these strikes still go ahead..the pensions are likely to change several times over before alot of these people who are striking retire, if it were me, personally i would think my self lucky that i was in employment!


I'm sure a person out of work in this country would look to be living extravently to someone in a third world country so where do you draw the line? It's all relative depending on what you are accustomed to.

If you don't stand up to changes that are unfair and which you don't agree with your rights and entitlements will just be slowly chipped away at until you're left with nothing. Not acting now would be foolish, and opens up the window of opportunity for yet more cuts.



hazel pritchard said:


> How can parents be asked to support this,,, for many of them they will have to either lose a days pay or have to pay for childcare for that day,,,, so all that is happening is parents and children are being made to suffer ,,so many parents are trying to make ends meet with money these days so its an expense many of them can really not afford.


If parents are struggling to make ends meet I'd say they are best placed to understand the teacher's plight then. To say only the parents struggling matters stinks far too much of an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude, the fact is if you don't support other people's struggles you shouldn't expect others to support you.

It's a case of sacrificing one day's pay for the sake of thousands of pounds and years, more than a worthy cause in my opinion. Personally, if I were a parent I would want the people responsible for my children's education to be satisfied in their profession. Then again, I'd also be making plans to make the best out of bad situation and make a day of Wednesday with my kids instead of moaning about it.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

I suppose what we have to think about is the future ...
all these cut backs means possibly even less teachers entering the profession.....
lets face it...if the job is not going to be attractive money wise etc...i mean lets be honest, most of us go to work because of the money and the lifestyle if offers.....
who looses out in the end...the kids

lets support them i say
and i have a child who is off on Wed x


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

sarybeagle said:


> I never said I didn't support it, in fact I said I can understand why they're doing it. I pointed out my concerns for caring for the elderly as majority of our team is made up of mums with school aged kids. If they all have to take a day off it leaves us short meaning visits delayed/rushed.


To be fair employers have known about this strike for months and we were told over 6 weeks ago of the intentions to strike and were told that anyone sick without a doctors note would be classed as AWOL and leave requests would be refused.

They would not accept the excuse that 'staff were not aware' and were told to make alternative plans for that day. If employers have failed to plan for this and have no contingency plan then unfortunately some managers are to blame for the shortfall in staff. This is not a suprise it's been talked about for months.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Just a thought - when it snows and the schools close, what do you parents do then for childcare?


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Take the day off I suppose or find childcare!


But that's okay because that was the weather and you can't get mad at the weather and blame it.


Overpriced for childcare?

I earn £3.50 an hour, that's below minimum wage and I'm a Childminder.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Beagle Mafia said:


> To be fair employers have known about this strike for months and we were told over 6 weeks ago of the intentions to strike and were told that anyone sick without a doctors note would be classed as AWOL and leave requests would be refused.
> 
> They would not accept the excuse that 'staff were not aware' and were told to make alternative plans for that day. If employers have failed to plan for this and have no contingency plan then unfortunately some managers are to blame for the shortfall in staff. This is not a suprise it's been talked about for months.


If employers were told over 6 weeks ago about this strike why then ,at my g/childrens school did the letters to parents only go out yesterday, over the past 10 days my daughter and other parents have asked the school "are the teachers going on strike at this school" only to be told,"no decision has been made yet"


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Beagle Mafia said:


> Oh and while we are on it...
> 
> If I wanted to get on my high horse I could moan about how unfair it is that MY taxes are paying to educate YOUR kids... I don't have children so why should I pay for your kids' education?? oh yeah because that is how it works


Totally agree - and if we are going down that path don't even get me started on why, as someone with no kids, my taxes should go to pay for family allowance and family tax credit (or whatever names they are now called). Like you say, we never mention things like that because that's how the system works - and that's why the odd few who think that their taxes shouldn't go to pay the wages of people desperate enough to strike for their rights really make my blood boil.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> Just a thought - when it snows and the schools close, what do you parents do then for childcare?


If I remember rightly from last year on here and facebook moan and winge that it's a travesty that teachers can't crawl on their hands and knees, ski or fly to work to look after their little darlings  :biggrin:


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

all i can say the best team building exercise any company can offer..going on strike  you wanna try it 

*joke* well sort of  but its true x


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Might be an idea to stop sending money to other countries and put it back into our economy maybe?


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

NicoleW said:


> Might be an idea to stop sending money to other countries and put it back into our economy maybe?


This is one thing that I definitely have to agree with, we're wasting money that our own country desperately needs & giving it to countries who have nothing to do with us.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

hazel pritchard said:


> If employers were told over 6 weeks ago about this strike why then ,at my g/childrens school did the letters to parents only go out yesterday, over the past 10 days my daughter and other parents have asked the school "are the teachers going on strike at this school" only to be told,"no decision has been made yet"


http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/201690-day-action-30-11-11-a.html

This thread was posted 20 days ago... ballot results did not have to legally be released until 23/11/11 I believe. We still haven't informed the public at work but whether it's definite or not there was NOTHING AT ALL to put in place a contingency plan for this action as my company did.

Their contingency plan was to email ALL STAFF stating that those NOT taking part in industrial action HAD to be in work and all sickness MUST be certified by a doctor and NO LEAVE WHATSOEVER would be granted.

Childcare, travel and care arrangements MUST be arranged now as these will not be sufficient reasons for absence. Anyone absent without leave will be marked as AWOL.

harsh? maybe but there was plenty of notice about POTENTIAL strike action so I have no sympathy for those moaning now that they are inconvenienced.

It's been in the press for months


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

hazel pritchard said:


> If employers were told over 6 weeks ago about this strike why then ,at my g/childrens school did the letters to parents only go out yesterday, over the past 10 days my daughter and other parents have asked the school "are the teachers going on strike at this school" only to be told,"no decision has been made yet"


Oh and it's not like it was a top secret...

2/11/11 - Public sector pensions strikes: November 30th plans still on, say unions | Mail Online


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

NicoleW said:


> Might be an idea to stop sending money to other countries and put it back into our economy maybe?


We don't even need to do that. Simply take back the money generated by British workers that currently sits in the bank accounts of large corporations (much of this is from Government contracts that have been farmed out to the private sector for a higher cost that when it was staffed by public sector workers)... there are also huge amounts of money sitting in the accounts of many CEOs.. just take it back.. easy.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Let's organise a heist. 

I'll be black hawk, you can be fuzzmunch, need some other code names now


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

NicoleW said:


> Let's organise a heist.
> 
> I'll be black hawk, you can be fuzzmunch, need some other code names now


We just need an elected Government and an act of parliament. All UK currency belongs to the state so you simply make an order to take it back...... you don't even need a swag bag :cornut:


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Where's the fun in that? I was looking forward to using my Gimp Mask


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

*Public sector strikes to cost economy 1/10th of royal wedding, warn ministers*

Ministers have warned that public sector strikes are bad because they will cost the UK economy £500m, which is roughly 1/10th of the amount that the wedding between the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge cost the economy earlier this year.

Cabinet Office Minister Francis Maude said at a briefing on Thursday, You have to remember that the £500m that we estimate these strikes will cost the economy is entirely different to the £5bn that the royal wedding cost the economy.

Firstly you have to factor in that the royal wedding generated around £47.59 in sales of cheap tat and sausage rolls.

Also if you discount the millions of people who couldnt give a flying ****, it was an historic occasion that provided the population with an enormous sense of national pride.

Strikes to cost less than royal wedding

With celebrations for the Queens diamond jubilee next year expected to cost a further £5bn, the impact of national pride on the economy is expected to be completely overlooked in favour of bunting and trifle.

Its weird that people can take great pride in the ability of a bunch of freeloaders to wave at people and shoot pheasants, but public servants standing up for themselves are viewed with such utter contempt, revealed one bemused public sector worker.

Gail Cartmail, assistant general secretary of Unite, accused the government of scaremongering and insisted that the strikes will have a similar effect on the country as royal celebrations.

People go on about how the royal wedding attracted vast numbers of foreigners to these shores, but with thousands of border agency workers joining the picket line, so will the strikes.

Public sector strikes to cost economy 1/10th of royal wedding, warn ministers


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> We don't even need to do that. Simply take back the money generated by British workers that currently sits in the bank accounts of large corporations (much of this is from Government contracts that have been farmed out to the private sector for a higher cost that when it was staffed by public sector workers)... there are also huge amounts of money sitting in the accounts of many CEOs.. just take it back.. easy.


elmo.......never a truer word said ....


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

I work in a Nursery School & we *aren't* going on strike next week.


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## sarybeagle (Nov 4, 2009)

Beagle Mafia said:


> To be fair employers have known about this strike for months and we were told over 6 weeks ago of the intentions to strike and were told that anyone sick without a doctors note would be classed as AWOL and leave requests would be refused.
> 
> They would not accept the excuse that 'staff were not aware' and were told to make alternative plans for that day. If employers have failed to plan for this and have no contingency plan then unfortunately some managers are to blame for the shortfall in staff. This is not a suprise it's been talked about for months.


I never said we weren't notified, but with all the schools in the area closing all the agencies are being hit as well as the care homes-another big employer of working mums. Sadly you can't get any old Tom dick or Harry in to fill a carers shoes!

Yes managers will be out working 'in the field' as they always do in emergency situations, which Ateotd IS happening if out of a team of 55 women 20 of us are needing the same day/hours off!! But taking the managers out the office means clients waiting in hospital won't be discharged as management need to go out to do assessments, reviews etc. even one day taken away from that has an impact.

We are low earners, not even anywhere near half the £18 an hour quoted in the guardian link earlier up the page. We work long un sociable hours-our agency closes midnight and opens 6am. We do a v physical job and will be lucky to be fit to work until the retirement age of 65! I certainly won't as I'm already deemed unfit to continue my care role  we have no pension except the state one. 
Our working week hours fluctuate from 48-55 but the latest is now 60! 7 girls I know work 90-110 hours a week!!! For £5.35 an hour to be spat at, verbally abused, sometimes physically abused-I've had hair pulled, slapped round the face, items thrown at me! Dealing with cases of abuse and coping with care for the dying.

Like I said my concerns are for the elderly who's carers will be stretched weds, with winter approaching I just worry for them x


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## noogsy (Aug 20, 2009)

well im really fed up with the government workers,
i think they should be very warey of pissing us all off.
the only large amount of cash sitting in the coffers just now is the government pension fund.
why dont we use it to bail the country out and tell the government workers to save there own pensions :mad5::mad5::mad5:
or share it with everyone who has paid there OWN pensions.
they should realise they are all on a sticky wicket.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

sarybeagle said:


> I never said we weren't notified, but with all the schools in the area closing all the agencies are being hit as well as the care homes-another big employer of working mums. Sadly you can't get any old Tom dick or Harry in to fill a carers shoes!
> 
> Yes managers will be out working 'in the field' as they always do in emergency situations, which Ateotd IS happening if out of a team of 55 women 20 of us are needing the same day/hours off!! But taking the managers out the office means clients waiting in hospital won't be discharged as management need to go out to do assessments, reviews etc. even one day taken away from that has an impact.
> 
> ...


I understand and share your concerns - not just for the elderly, but for everyone who will be affected by the strike - but the point is that everyone who is striking on Wednesday will also be sharing thiose concerns and will not have taken the decision to strike lightly. When did you last - if ever - hear of nurses going on strike, for example? Yes there will be difficulties experienced throughout the day, but instead of blaming the people who are, as a last resort, choosing to stike, then you should lay the blame for any difficulties anyone experiences on Wednesday squarely at the feet of the government that caused this.

If no-one fights for their rights, all that will happen is that this government will screw people even more and more, until your £5.35 per hour, 110 hour week, with no pension at the end of it, will be the norm.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Beagle Mafia said:


> http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/201690-day-action-30-11-11-a.html
> 
> This thread was posted 20 days ago... ballot results did not have to legally be released until 23/11/11 I believe. We still haven't informed the public at work but whether it's definite or not there was NOTHING AT ALL to put in place a contingency plan for this action as my company did.
> 
> ...


I know its been in the press for months ,but the school i am talking about kept saying to parents that no decision had been made if all teachers would strike,so the parents were not sure if all teachers at this school were in the union. i know of some schools where some will and some wont be on strike on wed.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

noogsy said:


> well im really fed up with the government workers,
> i think they should be very warey of pissing us all off.
> the only large amount of cash sitting in the coffers just now is the government pension fund.


This is just not true. There is a huge amount of wealth in this country - but most of it is in the hands of the few rich who are using it to make themselves even richer whilst they make us even poorer. Selling off Northern Rock at a 400 million pound loss to the tax payer is only one example.



noogsy said:


> why dont we use it to bail the country out


Is this as well as having their wages frozen for five years to pay off the deficit? Have you had your wages frozen to pay off the country's deficit? Government workers have. And then they are told that this government is not actually paying off the deficit, but has, in fact, borrowed more than the previous government had planned to.



noogsy said:


> and tell the government workers to save there own pensions :mad5::mad5::mad5:
> or share it with everyone who has paid there OWN pensions.


Government workers pay for their own pensions - just like everyone else. PLUS they are also tax payers, just like you. If you had worked for your company for 20 years, then were were told by your employer that you had to pay more into your pension, work more years before you retire, and then have a lower pension at the end of it, how would you feel?



noogsy said:


> they should realise they are all on a sticky wicket.


Not as sticky a wicket as the uncaring, unfeeling, selfish "I'm alright jack" people like you will be when they withdraw their services. Stop blaming the victims and blame the perpetrators - ie the government. If they weren't trying to screw people, none of this would be happening.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I can see from parents point of view the inconvenience of this, but tbh in "real" strike terms, anyone striking need not say anything until the day of the strike. So parents would turn up on wednesday morning and the school doors would be shut, so could be much worse. For the safety of children staff have told heads that they will not or will be striking leaving enough time for arrangements to be made.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

noogsy said:


> well im really fed up with the government workers,
> i think they should be very warey of pissing us all off.
> the only large amount of cash sitting in the coffers just now is the government pension fund.
> why dont we use it to bail the country out and tell the government workers to save there own pensions :mad5::mad5::mad5:
> ...


my cousin is a civil servant and one of the main reasons she chose her job was because of the excellent pension package, shes in her 50's now worked hard all her life, why should the government be allowed to take away whats rightfully hers?...its nothing more than theft!

I for one fully support all those who are fighting for 'their' pensions!

.


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## LyndaDanny (Jan 23, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> I can see from parents point of view the inconvenience of this, but tbh in "real" strike terms, anyone striking need not say anything until the day of the strike. So parents would turn up on wednesday morning and the school doors would be shut, so could be much worse. For the safety of children staff have told heads that they will not or will be striking leaving enough time for arrangements to be made.


Precisely. Management are not supposed to ask us if we are withdrawing our labour on 30th November. We are under no obligation to tell management that we are doing so, even on the day. I work for DWP.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I do wonder what all the people that are up in arms about this strike would do if lets say, paid sick leave was going to be stopped, anyone using their own vehicle for work use their mileage rate was going to be reduced, double pay on bank hols was to be reduced to time and a half, things that maybe attracted them to the job in the first place things that they rely on that make a difference ime sure you would want to do whatever they could to stop that and would hope others would support them.


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## sarybeagle (Nov 4, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I do wonder what all the people that are up in arms about this strike would do if lets say, paid sick leave was going to be stopped, anyone using their own vehicle for work use their mileage rate was going to be reduced, double pay on bank hols was to be reduced to time and a half, things that maybe attracted them to the job in the first place things that they rely on that make a difference ime sure you would want to do whatever they could to stop that and would hope others would support them.


We don't get sick leave, we only get SSP.

We use our own cars and mileage was scraped in June with out warning along with our holiday pay we earnt per month-% of earnings per month were paid as holiday pay and then if you took annual leave you were to us the money you got monthly, therefore no holiday pay either!

We've had a £1 pay rise in the 5 years I've been with this company and that came in the same day the mileage was axed!

Bank holidays are time and a half. Xmas day is not even double pay!!!!! And we work 365 days a year too.


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## noogsy (Aug 20, 2009)

i do feel so sorry for all these folks worried about the retirement 
because we the non government workers will be working till we die


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## noogsy (Aug 20, 2009)

can i also mention not all teachers are on strike on wednesday,
girls here will be in the school catching up with there classrooms work.
we the PTA have been asked to volenteer every day  unpaid 
to do the photo copying,run the dining hall,monitor the corridors,and help with more needy kids......
parents here are working in schools unpaid


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

sarybeagle said:


> We don't get sick leave, we only get SSP.
> 
> We use our own cars and mileage was scraped in June with out warning along with our holiday pay we earnt per month-% of earnings per month were paid as holiday pay and then if you took annual leave you were to us the money you got monthly, therefore no holiday pay either!
> 
> ...


I was obviously meaning the people that do, ime sure the ones that would be effected would fight for to save it.


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## jallytony (Oct 24, 2011)

i can fully understand it


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

hazel pritchard said:


> My son is a soldier, hes had a paycut for being overseas,,but he cant strike, he chose his job and just gets on with it.and no doubt if he lives long enough to draw his pension that will be cut aswell.


Well there you go! If anyone deserves a pay 'freeze' and not cut then its the guys who are fighting for the country! 
The best way forward for pensions is the cut of wage that goes into a pension, that being saved and out into a savings account! The rate of inflation and the state of this country will mean that when a worker now in their 20's will get hardly anything anyway when they retire! What really is the point? 
The pensions will change many times over the coming years because the givernment do not give a fook about anyone but themselves!

Never mond threads being posted 20 days ago the letters should have been sent out as soon as they knew they were striking not giving parents a few measley days notice! 
Like i say im not going to be affected but i dont see any good coming out of this! ESP with a bloody tory government!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

sarybeagle said:


> We don't get sick leave, we only get SSP.
> 
> We use our own cars and mileage was scraped in June with out warning along with our holiday pay we earnt per month-% of earnings per month were paid as holiday pay and then if you took annual leave you were to us the money you got monthly, therefore no holiday pay either!
> 
> ...


Are you proud that you allow yourself to be downtrodden like this? Do you think it somehow makes you better that you accept such terrible pay and conditions instead of fighting for your rights? Well, don't worry, even though you take a back seat you will still benefit from the people who do have the balls to fight for their rights and make this government treat workers as more than cattle fodder.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Well my Nursery School can't strike coz Wednesday is the first day of our Nativity Play ! LOL.

Anyway we wouldn't strike anyway .... Although some of the local Primary Schools are striking


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

noogsy said:


> i do feel so sorry for all these folks worried about the retirement
> because we the non government workers will be working till we die


Well you should do as the people who work for the government do and pay for your own pension instead of whining about workers who are paying for their own.


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## sarybeagle (Nov 4, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> Are you proud that you allow yourself to be downtrodden like this? Do you think it somehow makes you better that you accept such terrible pay and conditions instead of fighting for your rights? Well, don't worry, even though you take a back seat you will still benefit from the people who do have the balls to fight for their rights and make this government treat workers as more than cattle fodder.


:confused5: proud not at all!! Do I have much choice no!!! I have no qualifications other than gcse's -had my son @ 17. 
I live in a tiny village where the jobs local are either the local shop, 2 care homes or the care agency I work for.

We stood up and protested about our change in conditions but were told if we don't like it there's the door. What more can you do if locally this is all there is??? I suppose I could go off sick and live on benefits 

This is the only job that fits round my son and my dogs. It doesn't make me better and Ffs I never claimed it did. When people posted about teachers conditions I merely posted how it is for another profession also!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Well there you go! If anyone deserves a pay 'freeze' and not cut then its the guys who are fighting for the country!


Government workers are also working for the good of the people in this country - without them and the long hours they work for very little pay everyone in this country would be in a sorry state. Ffs - just look at all the whining just because some people have actually got to (shock horror) look after their OWN children for a few hours.



harley bear said:


> The best way forward for pensions is the cut of wage that goes into a pension, that being saved and out into a savings account!


So you want workers who have already had their pay frozen so that the government can use it to lower the deficit (ie had their pay frozen so that everyone in this country can benefit) to have even more taken off them to pay for a pension they have already paid for? Yeah, right, that's fair - not!



harley bear said:


> Never mond threads being posted 20 days ago the letters should have been sent out as soon as they knew they were striking not giving parents a few measley days notice!


Never mind that people fighting for their rights are struggling - just lets make sure that people get as much notice as possible so that they can palm their kids off onto other people for a day


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

willa said:


> Well my Nursery School can't strike coz Wednesday is the first day of our Nativity Play ! LOL.
> 
> Anyway we wouldn't strike anyway .... Although some of the local Primary Schools are striking


I dont like the idea of striking dont know what your reasons for not striking are but everyone should support each other on this because if we get the outcome that i hope we get, then everyone will benefit.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

noogsy said:


> i do feel so sorry for all these folks worried about the retirement
> because we the non government workers will be working till we die


im a 'non government worker' and thats my own fault... i didnt get my head down at school and work hard to get the qualifications that my 4 cousins got, (one is a civil servant another a teacher) They worked hard to get jobs that they believed would give them a decent retirement.

i genuinly do feel sorry for them All!

.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Have been reading this with a wry smile and the odd giggle, lol!

I agree in principle with the strike, my daughters College is closing on Wed too. 

I understand why they are striking and if I was one of them I'd strike too, having worked in the Public Sector before and striking then.

I think its true to say Unions dont have the huge amount of Power and influence they once enjoyed, all that got stopped after the last great Miners Strike - which I well remember, even as a child, I remember the queues of familys waiting to get in the Soup Kitchen, the miners families truly struggling, probably the worst cases of poverty I have seen with my own eyes. 

Those days of long long strikes will never be seen again. The hope of these one day strikes is that they show defiance to the Govn and the workers can only hope the Govn reacts in their favour. 

I do remember when my daughters were younger and the teachers would strike, we shared childcare amongst those moms who werent working. We always managed to sort things, so did most folks actually.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

sarybeagle said:


> We stood up and protested about our change in conditions but were told if we don't like it there's the door.


But if enough people get together to protest - as the government workers are doing - eventually something will have to alter. I'm not pretending it will be easy - this is a Tory government, after all - but ordinary people banding together have brought down the Berlin Wall and have ended dicatatorships - eg the Ceaușescu regime in Romania. To a lesser degree, they managed to stop Thatcher's poll tax. If enough people band together, we can force the government to make it better for everyone - including workers in the same position as you, who are told by their employers that they either have to put up or shut up.

Yet what happens now in this country? A protest is scheduled, and instead of supporting it people bleat on about, "Oo, I don't agree cos I've got to look after my kids for the day", or "well, I'm worse off than them". Such short-sightedness and self interest will keep the Tories in power and the workers downtrodden.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I dont like the idea of striking dont know what your reasons for not striking are but *everyone should support each other on this because if we get the outcome that i hope we get, then everyone will benefit*.


Spot on HM - and that is what some people on here can't see.


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

LyndaDanny said:


> Precisely. Management are not supposed to ask us if we are withdrawing our labour on 30th November. We are under no obligation to tell management that we are doing so, even on the day. I work for DWP.


Letters went out to our staff and like you they are under no obligation to say. We have been saying the minimum services is.... You will need to plan ahead.

At the end of day when customers call.and moan that its not been advertised or they have not been warned I get annoyed its been on news, in press and unions have been outside shops, supermarkets and in the street handing out leaflets. There shouldnt really be a need for people complaining they had no idea until now and its too late.

There may not have been a definite decision until this week however it still didnt stop people making plans. The woman I work with has had a few weeks to sort childcare and did so. If schools were open she didnt need it if they were closed she had someone to sit with kids if open she didnt need it.

I just think when its all over local and national press there really is no excuse when custimers call about the inconvenience it has been publicised enough.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> Spot on HM - and that is what some people on here can't see.


Look at this HM and SP agreeing. :biggrin:


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> But if enough people get together to protest - as the government workers are doing - eventually something will have to alter. I'm not pretending it will be easy - this is a Tory government, after all - but ordinary people banding together have brought down the Berlin Wall and have ended dicatatorships - eg the Ceaușescu regime in Romania. To a lesser degree, they managed to stop Thatcher's poll tax. If enough people band together, we can force the government to make it better for everyone - including workers in the same position as you, who are told by their employers that they either have to put up or shut up.
> 
> Yet what happens now in this country? A protest is scheduled, and instead of supporting it people bleat on about, "Oo, I don't agree cos I've got to look after my kids for the day", or "well, I'm worse off than them". Such short-sightedness and self interest will keep the Tories in power and the workers downtrodden.


I am in same kind of job as sarybeagle, and its chuffing hard at times! I worked for a company that nver paid anything above the flat rate, even on christmas day, no leui days either. Mileage was 22p a mile last time I did mobile care work, over 3 years ago, and the same company is paying the same hourly rate and the same mileage allowance.

I have an NVQ III, all my Mandatory training and much more in extras, we HAVE to do this training - no options! My new job has me on the fablulous rate of £6.50 an hour. It stinks!!!!!! 

We dont really have the option of striking coz very few of us are Union Members, most employers will not entertain dealing with Unions and some employers wont take you on if they find out you are in a Union!!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Look at this HM and SP agreeing. :biggrin:


I know - we do sometimes 

Tell you what HM - what is even more scarey is that I found myself agreeing with Elmo :scared: - now THAT is definitely a sign that the world is going to end in 2012 I reckon :lol:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> I know - we do sometimes
> 
> Tell you what HM - what is even more scarey is that I found myself agreeing with Elmo :scared: - now THAT is definitely a sign that the world is going to end in 2012 I reckon :lol:


think we need to be afraid................very afraid.......


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Spellweaver said:


> Government workers are also working for the good of the people in this country - without them and the long hours they work for very little pay everyone in this country would be in a sorry state. Ffs - just look at all the whining just because some people have actually got to (shock horror) look after their OWN children for a few hours.
> 
> So you want workers who have already had their pay frozen so that the government can use it to lower the deficit (ie had their pay frozen so that everyone in this country can benefit) to have even more taken off them to pay for a pension they have already paid for? Yeah, right, that's fair - not!
> 
> Never mind that people fighting for their rights are struggling - just lets make sure that people get as much notice as possible so that they can palm their kids off onto other people for a day


DONT! Twist my words! I said they should have as much notice as possible so if they work can arrange alternative childcare instead of loosing their days wage! Is THAT really so bad to give others a little consideration?

Do these people not have a choice to pay into a pension? If they do then they could choose not to and bank what they would have paid into it for their retirement!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Ceearott said:


> I am in same kind of job as sarybeagle, and its chuffing hard at times! I worked for a company that nver paid anything above the flat rate, even on christmas day, no leui days either. Mileage was 22p a mile last time I did mobile care work, over 3 years ago, and the same company is paying the same hourly rate and the same mileage allowance.
> 
> I have an NVQ III, all my Mandatory training and much more in extras, we HAVE to do this training - no options! My new job has me on the fablulous rate of £6.50 an hour. It stinks!!!!!!
> 
> We dont really have the option of striking coz very few of us are Union Members, most employers will not entertain dealing with Unions and some employers wont take you on if they find out you are in a Union!!


I didn't want to give the impression that I didn't think it was hard - I work in a mental health trust and I see first hand how hard care workers work, and how dedicated they are to their jobs and the people they care for - both in care homes and in the community.

I also can understand how you can't strike if your employer will not allow you to be in a union. But striking isn't the only way of supporting the people who can and do - just writing to the government, for example, to show how solid a support the strikers do have would be good.

Thatcher decimated people power in the eigties and nineties - it's time we took it back!


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

Im horrified and frankly disgusted with the general lack of support for our public workers.

Im in the private sector. I have worked long and hard for the job i have, which in turn returns me with good pay, and working for a company that offers good benefits including a good pension scheme. If i were to do my job for the NHS trusts, as an example, i know for a fact I would be taking a considerable pay cut; and if these changes go ahead the benefits wouldnt match up either! And I dont think that is fair, at all. 

I dont contribute towards the good of our society; and if any NHS people here know how their PFI Facilities Management system works they will understand how my company works... yet I will have a better deal than people who I entrust my health to, our children (theoretical i have none) to, our elderly to, our streets and safety to....

That is not a fair system! Plus! I can get a new job with another company and pretty much pick and choose based on the benefits... I have the option to change - the public workers have the public workers offers - change school; same deal. Change Hospital, same deal. Unless they drop out of the public sector and work for the fatcats like i do....

And then who would be left to look after my health, our children, our elderly, our security....



If you work in the private sector and have a crappy deal, then change it - go work for a better company; or get a private pension, or change career - there are options available, and the economic crisis wont last forever so do so when the situation improves - thats NOT the fault of the public sector and they should be punished for it! Once the pension changes come in there WONT be an option to change back, it will never improve; it will only continue to get hit.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

harley bear said:


> Do these people not have a choice to pay into a pension? If they do then they could choose not to and bank what they would have paid into it for their retirement!


what about the likes of my cousin whos been paying in for 30 odd years thinking her pension was secure? she wouldnt have enough working years left to do what you suggest, even if it were an option

.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> what about the likes of my cousin whos been paying in for 30 odd years thinking her pension was secure? she wouldnt have enough working years left to do what you suggest, even if it were an option
> 
> .


Like i say, im not sure how the pensions work for public sector workers as i havent worked for the public sector, but imo it doesnt take a genious to work out that the way the governments keep changing pensions and screwing people over then if you have tho option to bank the cash that is put into the pension that surely you would be better off in the long run


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

What's most worrying about this strike is that '999' services will be compromised :frown2: Heard on our local news last night.
This is far more concerning than schools closing for 1 day ........


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> I didn't want to give the impression that I didn't think it was hard - I work in a mental health trust and I see first hand how hard care workers work, and how dedicated they are to their jobs and the people they care for - both in care homes and in the community.
> 
> I also can understand how you can't strike if your employer will not allow you to be in a union. But striking isn't the only way of supporting the people who can and do - just writing to the government, for example, to show how solid a support the strikers do have would be good.
> 
> Thatcher decimated people power in the eigties and nineties - it's time we took it back!


Oh, I wasnt having a dig, lol! And yeah, Mrs T has a lot to answer for!!


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

I honestly cannot believe some of the attitudes on this thread!!

WTF kind of society do we live in? You just have to look at celebrity/sportsmen earnings, look at the media - journalists activities to feed a percieved desire for press, bankers bonuses....and what do you get riled at? That you are inconvenienced for a day by people who actually for once in this bl**dy country are standing up for themselves.

I despair.


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

Reading this it strikes (no pun intended lol) me that this is exactly what the Government want. If we are fighting with each other then it takes the heat off them.
None of us are getting a fair deal with pensions so we all need to let the Government know this. 
We were sent a very patronising email from the education secretary letting us know how good a deal we were getting, they were so confident they sent a pension calculator link with the email. I discovered after everything I will have paid in I will get less than someone who is on the dole each week. Can you imagine a teacher trying to control a class of 30 at the age of 75? That is how long I would have to work to get a decent pension but by then I would be too knackered to enjoy it.

So yes I am bloody striking!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

harley bear said:


> Like i say, im not sure how the pensions work for public sector workers as i havent worked for the public sector, but imo it doesnt take a genious to work out that the way the governments keep changing pensions and screwing people over then if you have tho option to bank the cash that is put into the pension that surely you would be better off in the long run


how could anyone have had the foresight to know that a government 30yrs into the future would steal 'their' pensions?

if you'd have known that then hats off to you, you are a genius.

.


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

Im glad i dont have kids, cos by the time theyr adults we will have barely any public sectors workers left 

Cant afford to go to uni to study to become teachers, healthcare professionals etc...and why would they bother to pay off a giant student loan only to have to work until they drop anyway!


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

My hubby works in the private sector and 5 years ago his pension forecast was £28,000 lump sum and a £18000 per year pension the latest forecast is £12000 lump sum and £9800 per year pension by the time he gets there it will be nothing I am surehe's not allowed to strike but all power to those that are


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> We dont really have the option of striking coz very few of us are Union Members, most employers will not entertain dealing with Unions and some employers wont take you on if they find out you are in a Union!!


I have been in a union for years and had a few jobs in that time my employers have never been aware I am in a union and they have never asked. I'm pretty sure they are not allowed to ask and if they did you don't have to answer.

If the s**t does well and truly hit the fan its those in a union who will come out the other end.

My mums a dinner lady for a private company however she was employed by council and still belongs too the LPGS I believe.

A while back her company cut the hours and did so in the wrong way. 2 out of 3 are in a union and they negotiated on behalf of those two but the third worker who doesn't pay union fees and disses the union also got a payout... fair? no it isn't

but life isn't always fair and if it comes down to it you'd be grateful to those willing to fight on your behalf.



harley bear said:


> Like i say, im not sure how the pensions work for public sector workers


Exactly so it may be an idea to view some of the myths you have heard through the grapevine UNISON Pensions | Protect our pensions campaign

Or see just how much it can effect someones life UNISON Pensions | Protect our pensions campaign

Or if you felt like showing you care... UNISON Pensions | Protect our pensions campaign I am sure those on 'holiday' that day would appreciate support rather than abuse shouted at them. Why not stop to ask how they feel? tell them you support them or even spend a few moments to write a letter to your MP?

But then it's easy to bitch on a forum


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Oh I am in a Union, lol!


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> Oh I am in a Union, lol!


that's good then


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

noogsy said:


> well im really fed up with the government workers,
> i think they should be very warey of pissing us all off.
> the only large amount of cash sitting in the coffers just now is the government pension fund.
> why dont we use it to bail the country out and tell the government workers to save there own pensions :mad5::mad5::mad5:
> ...


There is no big pot of money sitting in the PCSPS, it's a crown guarantee scheme. Sorry to disappoint. The money the workers pay in is used to subsidise Government spending until such time as people retire (the people who paid the money in) at then it's used to pay their pension.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

sarybeagle said:


> We don't get sick leave, we only get SSP.


Fought for and won by Trades Union members. Don't thank me


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Ceearott said:


> We dont really have the option of striking coz very few of us are Union Members, most employers will not entertain dealing with Unions and some employers wont take you on if they find out you are in a Union!!


It is illegal to discriminate against people because they are or are not members of a TU.


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

noogsy said:


> can i also mention not all teachers are on strike on wednesday,
> girls here will be in the school catching up with there classrooms work.
> we the PTA have been asked to volenteer every day  unpaid
> to do the photo copying,run the dining hall,monitor the corridors,and help with more needy kids......
> parents here are working in schools unpaid


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Could i ask all those here that will be on strike on wednesday ,,,what will they be doing on that day?


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

hazel pritchard said:


> Could i ask all those here that will be on strike on wednesday ,,,what will they be doing on that day?


Picket line from 7AM til 12 then we'll be joining one of the many marches/rallies... probably Oxford.


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

I wonder if Billy Bragg will be doin his rounds at the rallies! He normally does armed with his guitar and old union songs :-D


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## Zayna (Apr 19, 2009)

try working in nursing.. long hours, low pay, extremely demanding.. yet i do it cos i love it


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Zayna said:


> try working in nursing.. long hours, low pay, extremely demanding.. yet i do it cos i love it


But that doesn't mean your employer should abuse that good will.... nurses are out too


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

hazel pritchard said:


> Could i ask all those here that will be on strike on wednesday ,,,what will they be doing on that day?


If they feel strongly enough to have an UNPAID day off work to fight for their pension I would have thought they would be on the picket line and campaigning... I doubt very much you will get the answer "lie in, fry up, pub then bed" answer you desperately want to hear


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

Savahl said:


> I wonder if Billy Bragg will be doin his rounds at the rallies! He normally does armed with his guitar and old union songs :-D


I could take a guitar and sing out of my window but I don't think they'd appreciate that


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## ebonyblack (Sep 16, 2011)

Zayna said:


> try working in nursing.. long hours, low pay, extremely demanding.. yet i do it cos i love it


Me too  (I must be mad) but I'm not going to be taken advantage of, how far will the government go? Thats why I'm fully support strike action.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

I hope you all enjoy your day of action and look forwards to the 3p on petrol to pay for it.
This lot won't take any more notice than Blair did with a million against the gulf war.
One day is meaningless...now a month!!...you might gain their attention.

Watch out for those workers with the pepper sprays...they're there to make sure you don't achieve anything whatsoever.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

poohdog said:


> One day is meaningless....


Only if there are too many people who think that... now if you all joined in.....


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Only if there are too many people who think that... now if you all joined in.....


Wont happen but if everyone downed tools:thumbup1:


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm so glad that there have been plenty of people on this thread supporting the strikes.

It is so important that this country's children are taught by well-qualified, professional, content and enthusiastic people. The government should be thinking of ways to get more money into education not taking it away - the future of the country depends on it. They should be working on ways to make teaching attractive to the best university graduates, compared to erm, working for a bank for example.

I have given a lot of hard work and effort to qualify as a teacher, I have compromised my health in some ways, definitely my fitness, I give up most of my spare time during term time. I worked at school, at 6th form, at university, for a MSc, lived at home and did temp work so I could save up enough to do a PGCE. I work damn hard to do my best for the children I educate. Despite a great many of them not having been set up well in life by their parents (sorry but it's true). I stay until 9pm for parents evenings because I want to give them more feedback about their kid than I can in the designated 5 minutes. Then I get up the next day and try to deliver the best lessons I can. At the end of every week I am exhausted, at the end of every half-term I am pretty much ill. My OH does all the housework despite working full time himself because my evenings are spent marking books in an effort to get children to improve themselves.

Yes other people work hard, yes other people work hard for less than I earn. But I could work less and earn more if I went elsewhere. I have a first class degree from a top university, I have good people skills and am emminently employable (conceited? maybe, but it's true) Why am I in teaching then? Because I give a damn, I give a damn about other people and the future of this country. And sitting on a computer whining about having to spend a day with your own children is not going improve things in this country. A day of strike action might, just might stop the thin end of the wedge being driven in further.

This is not a job that it is going to be possible for someone much over the age of 60 to do well and it's only going to get worse as children become less respectful of authority...

I feel I have earned a right to decent pay and conditions so I am going to stand up for that right.

At the end of the day, compared to similarly qualified people in the private sector, compared to people who work as much unpaid overtime and take on as much accountability teachers do not get paid as much. But that doesn't matter, it's a vocation type job - but that doesn't mean we should sit around and let the government take all our benefits away in order to pay for the mistakes of people who earn many times more than we ever will.

Taylor Mali on "What Teachers Make" - YouTube

Without passionate teachers the future of the country is bleak. See Wednesday as a chance to spend some quality time with the people you have brought into the world and support those who are trying to educate them for you (for free, essentially since we're all paying for it in our taxes).


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

When i worked in the CSA's nursery when used to strike Only about 4 people would actually be on the picket line, I did laugh when they asked us to support them "mmm no love i work 45 hours then you and bring home £600 a month, you work like 37 hours and bring home nearly £2k!" feck off! 

My school only has one teacher off this year so its very minimal But i do support the Good teachers. It doesnt bother me if people want to strike its up to them.


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## Happy Cats (Nov 24, 2011)

Hi There, I am new to this site and loving it. My kids are off next week too. I find Self employment a way better option. Time to spend with family and friends and most of all when unnessisary things like this happen it doesnt matter coz im self employed anyway. Im in controll of my own pention so nothing to worry about. Id love to share it if anyone is interested inbox me.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Daynna said:


> , I did laugh when they asked us to support them "mmm no love i work 45 hours then you and bring home £600 a month, you work like 37 hours and bring home nearly £2k!" feck off!


Did you ever think that the reason their terms were better than yours was because they were willing to stand up and be counted?


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

Grrrr @ the news 

Come on guys lets fight this injustice!


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

I think Danny and his muppets are digging themselves another hole.

First of all they put a pension calculator on the Government website and had to take it down as it was wrong....

... now they are saying Trade Unions are not accepting their offer....

Danny... you haven't made an offer you idiot... get with the programme fella


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

The Prime Minister said four-year-old Arthur would spend Wednesday with him in Downing Street because his school will be closed.

My son is quite excited, he thinks hes going to run the country, Mr Cameron said.



...... someone needs to run the country Dave (you don't mind me calling you Dave do you Dave?) and your son can't make any worse of a job than you do


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

In the 80s when my kids were in infant and primary school there was and strike parent power was used. We went in a helped out. The head backed it all. I am surprised this is not happening now.


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

We have enough trouble trying to involve parents in school so doubt they would want to run it for a day lol!


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2011)

I support as many strikes as they need to make their voices heard, if that means me losing a days money, then so be it. My husband is a solider, and even he said they are right to be doing this.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Parents going in to help out would need to be CRB checked so, for child protection reasons, that isn't going to happen these days. Besides it might work in a primary school (just cos kids see all adults as authoprity at that age, not cos it's actually any easier than secondary teaching, cos it's not) but I doubt a load of people could just walz in off the street and manage a secondary school full of teenagers. It'd be chaos.

Believe it or not what teachers do is really quite bloody hard, before they even get onto the task of teaching them anything.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Werehorse said:


> Parents going in to help out would need to be CRB checked so, for child protection reasons, that isn't going to happen these days. Besides it might work in a primary school (just cos kids see all adults as authoprity at that age, not cos it's actually any easier than secondary teaching, cos it's not) but I doubt a load of people could just walz in off the street and manage a secondary school full of teenagers. It'd be chaos.
> 
> Believe it or not what teachers do is really quite bloody hard, before they even get onto the task of teaching them anything.


Ummm my sons playgroup staff told me that they no longer have to have crb checks as they are only with children on a part time basis ..dunno if that has come into play yet for school helpers?


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

northnsouth said:


> In the 80s when my kids were in infant and primary school there was and strike parent power was used. We went in a helped out. The head backed it all. I am surprised this is not happening now.


Not only is it wrong that someone should do anything that person striking would be doing but things have changed so much now in schools we cant now let parents come in and be with children without a member of staff present and that hasnt been crb checked.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

malibu said:


> I support as many strikes as they need to make their voices heard, if that means me losing a days money, then so be it. My husband is a solider, and even he said they are right to be doing this.


I note with amusement that union officials and there staff will *not* be losing a days pay.


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2011)

poohdog said:


> I note with amusement that union officials and there staff will *not* be losing a days pay.


That's surely cos they are union officials and not the striking public workers....


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Not only is it wrong that someone should do anything that person striking would be doing


We agree again HM! 

Time was when these sort of people were called scabs and were looked upon as the lowest of the low - real scum - for betraying their fellow-workers. How values have changed - and not for the better!


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## Pheebs (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm striking on Wednesday (I'm not a teacher, though).

This is why.

When I signed up to my job 20 years ago it was in the knowledge that although if I did a similar job in the private sector I'd get more money, I would get a decent pension by working for the public sector...

Now they want to change that agreement. I know things are tough and I would happily pay more for my pension OR work longer OR take a reduction in my pension. But the Government wants me to do ALL THREE.

Sorry, not happening. I'm standing up for myself and my colleagues. 

Oh and BTW don't believe everything you read about "gold plated pensions". Mine will be about £8K-£10K a year (once I've worked for 40 years), and I earn above the average wage in the public sector (although I work part time). Most pensions will be around £5K-£6K.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

I am also striking on Wednesday. I work for the NHS, but chose to opt out of their pension scheme when I first joined the NHS (or superannuation as it was called waaaay back then) because I could not afford the payments on the low wage they paid. As we grew older, I chose to stay out of it because to be included in the private scheme operated by the company my OH worked for was a much better deal - and it still is, despite the uncertainties in the private sector.

However, that does not alter the fact that I believe my fellow workers have been treated despicably by this government, and I fully support them - so I will be there on the picket line with them.

I'm fed up of our rights being eroded away. It's time to stand up and be counted, a time to stand up for what you believe in, a time to show the government they can't just treat human being like cattle.

And as for those who prefer to whinge that they are going to be slightly inconvenienced for a few hours instead of having the balls to join in and support us - well, I don't know whether I despise them or feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for them because they can't see past the ends of their noses - but I despise them because you can bet your bottom dollar that they will willingly accept any benefits we fight for and win for them.


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## Pheebs (Jun 8, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> I am also striking on Wednesday. I work for the NHS, but chose to opt out of their pension scheme when I first joined the NHS (or superannuation as it was called waaaay back then) because I could not afford the payments on the low wage they paid. As we grew older, I chose to stay out of it because to be included in the private scheme operated by the company my OH worked for was a much better deal - and it still is, despite the uncertainties in the private sector.
> 
> However, that does not alter the fact that I believe my fellow workers have been treated despicably by this government, and I fully support them - so I will be there on the picket line with them.
> 
> ...


Great post.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

If the government win this one it will affect us all the private sector will then jump on the band wagon more than they already have,this government have always hated unions and are now threatening to bring in new laws against the unions


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

suewhite said:


> If the government win this one it will affect us all the private sector will then jump on the band wagon more than they already have,this government have always hated unions and are now threatening to bring in new laws against the unions


That's the Tory way unfortunately - if anything can give power to the ordinary person, bring in new legislation against it. Thatcher did it ad nauseum in the 80's - and you only have to look at the first thing this lot did immediately they got in - ie change the minimum term of government before an election from three years to five years - to see how things were going to pan out.

That's why we need everyone to stick together - individually we are weak, together we are a power to be reckoned with. And it's no use sayiing it can't be done. Just think, if all the people who have fought for rights over the centuries had thought "No, it's too difficult" - or if people had whinged abut being inconvenienced for a few hours instead of supporting them - or if people had thought they wouldn't give support in case they were targetted next -we would still be in wooden huts while our Norman overlords lived in castles.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

poohdog said:


> I note with amusement that union officials and there staff will *not* be losing a days pay.


Lay officials (those who work in the Public Sector and are elected by their peers) will be.

Union officers (employees of the respective Trades Union) will not as they do not benefit from the Public Sector pension scheme and are not involved in a trade dispute with their employer (the Trades Union) so any strike action by them would be illegal.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> That's the Tory way unfortunately - if anything can give power to the ordinary person, bring in new legislation against it. Thatcher did it ad nauseum in the 80's - and you only have to look at the first thing this lot did immediately they got in - ie change the minimum term of government before an election from three years to five years - to see how things were going to pan out.
> 
> That's why we need everyone to stick together - individually we are weak, together we are a power to be reckoned with. And it's no use sayiing it can't be done. Just think, if all the people who have fought for rights over the centuries had thought that - or if people had whinged abut being inconvenienced for a few hours instead of supporting them - or if people had thought they wouldn't give support in case they were targetted next -we would still be in wooden huts while our Norman overlords lived in castles.


Afraid people will not stick together an example is my OH is not allowed to strike so the work force were told to work to rule by there union out of 123 workers it turned out that only 28 did it he and the other 27 had there lives made hell


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Werehorse said:


> Parents going in to help out would need to be CRB checked so, for child protection reasons, that isn't going to happen these days. Besides it might work in a primary school (just cos kids see all adults as authoprity at that age, not cos it's actually any easier than secondary teaching, cos it's not) but I doubt a load of people could just walz in off the street and manage a secondary school full of teenagers. It'd be chaos.
> 
> Believe it or not what teachers do is really quite bloody hard, before they even get onto the task of teaching them anything.


Half my family and a large number of friends are employed in education. I am quiet aware of how hard they work
They like to remind me enough


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

suewhite said:


> Afraid people will not stick together an example is my OH is not allowed to strike so the work force were told to work to rule by there union out of 123 workers it turned out that only 28 did it he and the other 27 had there lives made hell


Not "allowed" to strike? but "allowed" to work to rule?


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> We agree again HM!
> 
> Time was when these sort of people were called scabs and were looked upon as the lowest of the low - real scum - for betraying their fellow-workers. How values have changed - and not for the better!


And they are happy to accept the benefits their collegues striked for too.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Not "allowed" to strike? but "allowed" to work to rule?


Non strike clause in the contract but they are expected to do 5 hours a week unpaid for the company also expected to wash and clean vans out of working hours.This is the water industry run on goodwill from the workforce alot of the time so no not allowed to strike but could withdraw there goodwill


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Spellweaver said:


> *That's the Tory way unfortunately - if* *anything can give power to the ordinary person, bring in new legislation against it.* Thatcher did it ad nauseum in the 80's - and you only have to look at the first thing this lot did immediately they got in - ie change the minimum term of government before an election from three years to five years - to see how things were going to pan out.


I can't stand the present lot but lets be right here...Blair did the same after the fuel protest.A situation that could have brought the country to it's knees in days.It frightened the crap out of Blairs lot and he was very quick to bring in new laws so the public couldn't challenge his despotic rule in the future...Just like Thatcher.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

suewhite said:


> Non strike clause in the contract but they are expected to do 5 hours a week unpaid for the company also expected to wash and clean vans out of working hours.This is the water industry run on goodwill from the workforce alot of the time so no not allowed to strike but could withdraw there goodwill


They could also withdraw from a no strike clause.


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## Pheebs (Jun 8, 2011)

suewhite said:


> If the government win this one it will affect us all the private sector will then jump on the band wagon more than they already have,this government have always hated unions and are now threatening to bring in new laws against the unions


If only more people in the private sector understood this. The Government want to erode all worker's rights whether they're in the public or private sector. But people are falling for the old divide and rule tactic.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

poohdog said:


> I can't stand the present lot but lets be right here...Blair did the same after the fuel protest.A situation that could have brought the country to it's knees in days.It frightened the crap out of Blairs lot and he was very quick to bring in new laws so the public couldn't challenge his despotic rule in the future...Just like Thatcher.


Yep - I always said Blair was in the wrong party. 

But - even more interestingly - I wonder how many posters who were complaining about the price of fuel on here the other week were actually whining about the fuel protest when it was taking place - how it was inconveniencing them etc etc - instead of supporting what the protestors were trying to do?


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Did you ever think that the reason their terms were better than yours was because they were willing to stand up and be counted?


No Child care is very badly paid where ever you are, being under 21 at the time on a little over minium wage. No union to go by and to be honest I was just glad i had a Job that gave me enough to cover my rent at the time. I wasnt going to strike for them when most of them couldnt be arsed to actual picket themselves.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Daynna said:


> No Child care is very badly paid where ever you are, being under 21 at the time on a little over minium wage. No union to go by and to be honest I was just glad i had a Job that gave me enough to cover my rent at the time. I wasnt going to strike for them when most of them couldnt be arsed to actual picket themselves.


... you were complaining they had better terms than you... how did they get them?


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Elmo the Bear said:


> ... you were complaining they had better terms than you... how did they get them?


It's a totally different job? You can not compair them

Why should I picket for her job when although mine was poorly paid I was happy?! I only commented about it because she was unhappy in her job etc hence the strike. When I got unhappy in my job I left 

So please nit pick else were


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> It's called support for some of your fellow-human beings who happen to need it.
> See, that's the thing about support: you give it when it's needed and then you receive it when you need it - at least you will receive it when you need it unless you come across people as self-seeking as some on here.


Public sector workers have always gone out on strike because they have the ability to hold the country to ransom, private sector rarely do because they do not have that ability and would most likely simply be sacked anyway. If its all about support for fellow human beings where has the support been for private sector workers? If you are so altruistic why did you not withdraw your labour in support of your fellow private sector workers when manufacturing industries were decimated



hazel pritchard said:


> My son is a soldier, hes had a paycut for being overseas,,but he cant strike, he chose his job and just gets on with it.and no doubt if he lives long enough to draw his pension that will be cut aswell.





Spellweaver said:


> The people who are going on strike are people who usually never go on strike because they - like your son - are serving the people of their country. The fact that they are now desperate enough to be striking should show you how serious things are. And your son may be fighting for his country, but without people back home fighting for his rights as a civilian then you are right - his pension will probably be cut. So instead of decrying the people who are fighting for their - *and your son's *- rights, you should be supporting them.


You cannot compare a soldier with a teacher, one risks his life every day going to work the other does not. Compare a soldiers pay with a teachers, something not right there.



Elmo the Bear said:


> Not many can afford to lose a day's pay.... but less can afford to lose a pension. The tens of thousands of public servants that have already lost their jobs because no one fought for them will have shed more than a few tears.


Do you accept that Labour massively increased the public sector to an unsustainable level?



Spellweaver said:


> Most of the people who are striking are also in the same boat - plus their wages have been frozen since the coalition came into power.


Very many in the private sector have not had a pay rise for long before the coalition came into power


Beagle Mafia said:


> If employers have failed to plan for this and have no contingency plan then unfortunately some managers are to blame for the shortfall in staff. This is not a suprise it's been talked about for months.


Contingency plans - such as what? Outside of the comfort blanket of the public sector it does not work like that in the real world!


Spellweaver said:


> that's why the odd few who think that their taxes shouldn't go to pay the wages of people desperate enough to strike for their rights really make my blood boil.


Has it never crossed your mind that many people to do not support your reasons for striking simply because you are already massively better off that they are any way



Spellweaver said:


> Are you proud that you allow yourself to be downtrodden like this? Do you think it somehow makes you better that you accept such terrible pay and conditions instead of fighting for your rights? Well, don't worry, even though you take a back seat you will still benefit from the people who do have the balls to fight for their rights and make this government treat workers as more than cattle fodder.


Anything the public sector obtains will not benefit the private sector one iota, it will merely cost them more in taxes



noushka05 said:


> how could anyone have had the foresight to know that a government 30yrs into the future would steal 'their' pensions? if you'd have known that then hats off to you, you are a genius. .


Outside of the public sector there are very very few final salary pension scheme remaining. Companies cannot afford them full stop

And as for those who prefer to whinge that they are going to be slightly inconvenienced for a few hours instead of having the balls to join in and support us - well, I don't know whether I despise them or feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for them because they can't see past the ends of their noses - but I despise them because you can bet your bottom dollar that they will willingly accept any benefits we fight for and win for them.[/QUOTE]

:confused5: So if you win this fight you are going to carry on striking until every worker in the country enjoys the same pension package? If not what benefits are you winning for private sector workers??


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Public sector workers have always gone out on strike because they have the ability to hold the country to ransom, private sector rarely do because they do not have that ability and would most likely simply be sacked anyway. If its all about support for fellow human beings where has the support been for private sector workers? *If you are so altruistic why did you not withdraw your labour in support of your fellow private sector workers when manufacturing industries were decimated*
> 
> *You cannot compare a soldier with a teacher,* one risks his life every day going to work the other does not. Compare a soldiers pay with a teachers, something not right there.
> 
> ...




To show support doesnt mean to down tools with them, it means writing a letter, verbally supporting them - hardly much of an effort.

Where I worked was talking about how the strike would effect people getting to work, and being at work at 2 weeks ago - so some forsight from other companies isnt totally unreasonable.

a soldier isnt a teacher, correct, but a public worker is a public worker...its not JUST teachers effected, and not just teachers they are fighting for

It doesnt directly effect private sector, but it does effect the quality of work public workers produce, and so affect our streets, our hospitals and our childrens education....


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Public sector workers have always gone out on strike because they have the ability to hold the country to ransom, private sector rarely do because they do not have that ability and would most likely simply be sacked anyway. If its all about support for fellow human beings where has the support been for private sector workers? If you are so altruistic why did you not withdraw your labour in support of your fellow private sector workers when manufacturing industries were decimated


Public sector always going on strike and holding the country to ransom? Really? From memory, the last big strike "holding the country to ransom" - to quote your melodramatic rhetoric - was British Airways, a private company. What about the fuel blockades "holding the country to ransom" - they were not public sector workers. When did you last see a strike from the public sector? And when did you last see a nurse, for example, on strike?

As for my not supporting strikes in the private sector - perhaps you should gather information before you put your foot into it like this. If you knew anything about me at all, you would know that was not true.



DoodlesRule said:


> You cannot compare a soldier with a teacher, one risks his life every day going to work the other does not. Compare a soldiers pay with a teachers, something not right there.


Have you worked in a casualty department on a weekend evening? No, you'll have been safe and sound in your comfortable bed whilst the very people you are maligning are working hard, working long hours, and risking their lives to look after people for the mere pittance people like you begrudge them. (See, we can all produce melodramatic rhetoric!  )

Public sector workers do the jobs that no-one else wants - they look after the sick, the ill, the disabled, they educate your children, they risk their lives in the police force - and they do it for very low pay. Only the ungrateful, unseeing, uncaring would take their work for granted as they work to keep you and yours safe and well.



DoodlesRule said:


> Do you accept that Labour massively increased the public sector to an unsustainable level?


No - because they didn't.



DoodlesRule said:


> Has it never crossed your mind that many people to do not support your reasons for striking simply because you are already massively better off that they are any way


No - because
a) according to the news this morning, the majority of people are in favour of supporting the stike (so thankfully, people with your attitude are in the minority) and
b) Public sector workers are almost without fail more poorly paid than their equivalents in the private sector.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Im not a high paid government worker and i earn far less than the 'average wage' have just done a quick sum if i have to pay an extra 3% or 4% i'll be paying roughly about 40 pound a month extra, yes i can accept that i have not had a pay increase since the year dot, i have no kids, i pay my taxes, i pay my insurance, i have worked all my life since i was old enough. Im more than happy to pay for my old age and do this willing. If i were to see the benefit of the extra amount that the government want us to pay, then yes i wont mind, but the point is we are NOT GOING TO SEE IT. For those moaning about the strike how would you feel if your wages had another 40 pound taken out of it and basically going into the government coffers because this is whats happening.

I for one will probably end up coming out of the pension scheme and try to put my money somewhere else. The government/country invests a lot of our pensions in overseas stuff and a lot has been lost already. If we all decide to take our money out, you can guarantee there would be a load more people complaining about taxes on other things going up


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Public sector always going on strike and holding the country to ransom? Really?
> If you actually read it I said "have always gone out on strike" I did not say they are "always going on strike" different things. The thread was about teachers, I was answering about teachers
> 
> From memory, the last big strike "holding the country to ransom" - to quote your melodramatic rhetoric - was British Airways, a private company. What about the fuel blockades "holding the country to ransom" - they were not public sector workers. When did you last see a strike from the public sector? And when did you last see a nurse, for example, on strike?
> ...


Really - can you give some examples please.

There are many many low to average paid workers with no pension at all. You probably will not read it but this is the situation facting non-public sector workers:

The UK's retirement crisis shows no sign of receding as new research shows that pension income has in some cases been eroded by more than 70% in the past decade. 
Plummeting pot: Pension income has collapsed in the past decade
Falling investment returns combined with lower annuity rates have driven potential retirement income down from £9,000 per year a decade ago to £2,500 now. 
How pension income has fallen 
Those lucky enough to be members of gold plated but near extinct final salary schemes, or defined benefit, can look forward to an income of typically some two-thirds of the final salary in retirement. 
But the situation facing those in money purchase, or defined contribution, schemes where income in retirement is linked to stock markets is another story. 
They are facing an uphill battle in their quest to fund a comfortable retirement, with a study from financial data provider Moneyfacts, showing that the average pension pot has collapsed by a staggering 60%, and pension income by more than 70%, over the last decade. 
According to the survey, someone who had paid £100 gross per month into a balanced managed fund for the preceding 20 years would have built up a pension fund of £40,749 if they retired now, compared with £103,914 if they had retired a decade ago. 
And combined with falling annuity rates this smaller pot delivers a total retirement income of just £2,452, compared to the potential £8,998 ten years ago.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

welshjet said:


> Im not a high paid government worker and i earn far less than the 'average wage' have just done a quick sum if i have to pay an extra 3% or 4% i'll be paying roughly about 40 pound a month extra, yes i can accept that i have not had a pay increase since the year dot, i have no kids, i pay my taxes, i pay my insurance, i have worked all my life since i was old enough. Im more than happy to pay for my old age and do this willing. If i were to see the benefit of the extra amount that the government want us to pay, then yes i wont mind, but the point is we are NOT GOING TO SEE IT. For those moaning about the strike how would you feel if your wages had another 40 pound taken out of it and basically going into the government coffers because this is whats happening.
> 
> I for one will probably end up coming out of the pension scheme and try to put my money somewhere else. The government/country invests a lot of our pensions in overseas stuff and a lot has been lost already. If we all decide to take our money out, you can guarantee there would be a load more people complaining about taxes on other things going up


I do sympathise to a degree but what a lot of public sector works fail to appreciate is how much worse it is for the majority of private sector. This is how much they need to save:

_How to beat the pension squeeze 
Savers need to substantially increase their contributions, if they are to enjoy the same level of retirement as their predecessors. 
To achieve the same pension income as someone who retired a decade ago and had been contributing £100 per month gross, those retiring now would instead have needed to save around £355 gross per month. 
In order to achieve a comfortable income in retirement, whenever you start saving you should ideally be putting aside half your age in percentage terms, according to life insurer Aegon. 
Therefore, a 30-year-old who starts saving today should think about setting aside 15% of their salary. Obviously, the sooner you start saving the more affordable it becomes and the better off you are likely to be in retirement. 
_


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

You said:


DoodlesRule said:


> Public sector workers have always gone out on strike because they have the ability to hold the country to ransom,


so why are you now trying to pretend you were talking only about teachers?



DoodlesRule said:


> [I was answering about teachers


you said:



DoodlesRule said:


> If you are so altruistic why did you not withdraw your labour in support of your fellow private sector workers when manufacturing industries were decimated




so why are you now trying to pretend you were speaking in general terms instead of addressing me?



DoodlesRule said:


> [& was talking about the public sector generally not you specifically


btw - have you noticed that in this quote you admit you were talking about "the public sector" in general and not just "teachers"? Even if you are doing a Humpty Dumpty and paying words extra to mean what you want them to mean, when you write "public sector" as you have done several times, the rest of us are going to think you are talking about the "public sector" and not just about "teachers" 

And as for your comment:



DoodlesRule said:


> [For goodness sake why do you feel the need to be aggressive just because someone does not agree with you?


Well, this is the untrue comment you always make when I tie you up in logic - you always try to turn it into the personal rather than debate the subject on hand in a sensible manner. :lol: I challenge you to give one example of aggression in my post. Derision, yes, sarcasm, yes - but aggression? No.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

@ doodlesrule

As i said im far from a high earner, im possibly on one of the lowest grades, if i were to see some benefit i wouldnt mind but the amount we are being asked to put in extra is going to the government.

If for example you bought into an insurance policy and down the line the company decided to change it, wanted more money and gave less out of it, would you be happy, probably not because it was not what you bought into. 

They would be better off saying to each and every public sector worker, stop paying in, invest your own money cause basically this is what they want people to do. Would i like to be able to retire at 50 too right i would like to but i like many others in both private and public sector the majority of us have to work right up to retirement age,


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

welshjet said:


> @ doodlesrule
> 
> As i said im far from a high earner, im possibly on one of the lowest grades, if i were to see some benefit i wouldnt mind but the amount we are being asked to put in extra is going to the government.
> 
> ...


Unfortunatly with the pension legislation changes made by Labour, private pensions have already been changed, and keep being changed constantly. There are no guarantees either - with public sector pensions (defined benefits) you get a defined sum when you retire. Investing yourself into a private pension it just depends on what the fund has grown to and what the annuity rate is when you retire.

Defined benefits are way way better so naturally anyone in that type of scheme will fight tooth & nail to keep it. Sadly there are hardly any DB schemes left in the private sector because they are prohibitively expensive. Labour knew this 10 years ago but would not deal with it because its a political hot potato - pension experts were telling them then they should either close the schemes to new members or change the contributions required, so that those who took their jobs on a certain package got what they signed up for but newer employees had a different scheme.

Hand on heart could you say to some else on a similar salary as yourself but probably no pension at all, that you think it fair they should have to pay more taxes to make sure you keep your pension as it is.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

It is sad that the greed of the private secotr CEOs and fatcats are getting in the way of our support for the public workers.

My own pension scheme, that I pay into, is changing in a few months time - we have no control over this. And as I am not part of a union, we can take no action. I was previously a Unite member, but still we lost our final salary scheme. We in the private sector are also suffering.

However, I still support the public sector. They do work hard and out of principle I support them - I cannot foght for myself however I do not begrudge those they still can! Unions do not have the power they once had; they have been demonised by the press as greedy, when they are fighting for the rights of the working man; and fighting a losing battle. But why make it easy for them to strip us of what we were promised. The private sector are doing it, lets not allow the public sector to follow suit! I suffer, does not mean I want our public workers to suffer with me! 

I want my healthcare workers happy, I want our teachers happy, I want those who have to deal with the crummy public, abusive and crappy underworld of this country, to at least have a comfortable retirement as a thank you for putting up with our poorly behaved children and abusive patients in hospitals, looking after our ignored elderly who are simply to much of an inconvenience to look after ourselves, clean our streets becasue we are too lazy to sweep up our own streets, man our flooded border controls (which we all still like to moan about)....


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

I chose to pay into my pension some years ago (albeit not many) because i could not afford not to, if i wanted any quality of life when i retire as opposed to just relying on state pension and benefits.

The.public sector pension comprises of many different sections. There are some which are managed correctly and invested in and people have paid into for years.

Unfortunately not all are like this and we are now penalised for some parts of the public sector either never paying properly and for all the horrendous **** ups that have been made

As to your tax payer statement , I am a tax payer so i am penalised twice if this is what you mean, i have no kids and yet i contribute to education, would i contribute to their education if i had a choice no.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Hand on heart could you say to some else on a similar salary as yourself but probably no pension at all, that you think it fair they should have to pay more taxes to make sure you keep your pension as it is.


No - but that's not the reality of the situation, is it? The reality is, hand on heart, could you say to someone on a much poorer salary than yours, who is also a tex payer like yourself, who has had their wage frozen for five years in order to pay for the country's deficit and so benefit everyone, who has paid into a pension scheme for over 20 years, that their lower than average wages and their wage freeze are not enough? That in order to pay for the country's defecit and so benefit everyone else in the country, they are now also going to have to pay an extra £40 per month into their pension scheme, work longer until retirement, and then get an even lower pension than they were meant to be getting?

Hand on heart, do you think that is fair, Doodlesrule?


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Savahl said:


> It is sad that the greed of the private secotr CEOs and fatcats are getting in the way of our support for the public workers.
> 
> My own pension scheme, that I pay into, is changing in a few months time - we have no control over this. And as I am not part of a union, we can take no action. I was previously a Unite member, but still we lost our final salary scheme. We in the private sector are also suffering.
> 
> ...


Great post :thumbup1:


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Savahl said:


> It is sad that the greed of the private secotr CEOs and fatcats are getting in the way of our support for the public workers.
> 
> My own pension scheme, that I pay into, is changing in a few months time - we have no control over this. And as I am not part of a union, we can take no action. I was previously a Unite member, but still we lost our final salary scheme. We in the private sector are also suffering.
> 
> ...


Final salary schemes are dead in the water because they are too expensive, on a simplistic level people live a hell of a lot longer so the pensions obviously have to pay out a lot longer too basically there is not enough money going in to pay out the amounts promised. So yes in an ideal world we want happy public sector workers but if no change is made to the pension as it stands at the moment then there is not enough money to fund it. Are you happy to pay a hell of a lot more tax yourself to subsidise the scheme so they can continue to get a pension you can never hope to achieve, because that is the only alternative to no change


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Final salary schemes are dead in the water because they are too expensive, on a simplistic level people live a hell of a lot longer so the pensions obviously have to pay out a lot longer too basically there is not enough money going in to pay out the amounts promised. So yes in an ideal world we want happy public sector workers but if no change is made to the pension as it stands at the moment then there is not enough money to fund it. Are you happy to pay a hell of a lot more tax yourself to subsidise the scheme so they can continue to get a pension you can never hope to achieve, because that is the only alternative to no change


Yes. I am. I think its a better use of our taxes than certain other things. Good use of public money in my opinion.

Honestly, I would rather the bankers bonus tax was reinstated personally, but the 1% get away pretty scott free while the public sector become the nations scapegoat.

Im skilled, I could have gone on to become a teacher - physics or technology i suppose...but i didnt, you know why? Cos I wanted to earn decent money in a reletively short amount of time. And I did. Plus i really didnt want to have to put up with someone elses horrible kids, and be expected to act as a disciplinarian for lazy parents - cos its a hard, long, job. And hats off to those that do - they deserve a good golden handshake on retirement.

Thank god not everyone thinks like me - greed and selfishness. Otherwise we would have no teachers at all


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> No - but that's not the reality of the situation, is it? The reality is, hand on heart, could you say to someone on a much poorer salary than yours, who is also a tex payer like yourself, who has had their wage frozen for five years in order to pay for the country's deficit and so benefit everyone, who has paid into a pension scheme for over 20 years, that their lower than average wages and their wage freeze are not enough? That in order to pay for the country's defecit and so benefit everyone else in the country, they are now also going to have to pay an extra £40 per month into their pension scheme, work longer until retirement, and then get an even lower pension than they were meant to be getting?
> 
> Hand on heart, do you think that is fair, Doodlesrule?


And 40 is one of the lesser amounts, some people albeit say 2 higher grades than me are being expected to pay over 100 extra on top of what they pay already


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> No - but that's not the reality of the situation, is it? The reality is, hand on heart, could you say to someone on a much poorer salary than yours, who is also a tex payer like yourself, who has had their wage frozen for five years in order to pay for the country's deficit and so benefit everyone, who has paid into a pension scheme for over 20 years, that their lower than average wages and their wage freeze are not enough? That in order to pay for the country's defecit and so benefit everyone else in the country, they are now also going to have to pay an extra £40 per month into their pension scheme, work longer until retirement, and then get an even lower pension than they were meant to be getting?
> 
> Hand on heart, do you think that is fair, Doodlesrule?


No Spellweaver I don't think its fair not at all, I believe if you employ someone on a package then you should have to honour that. But this issue will not go away.

Private industry knew years & years ago that final salary schemes were a disaster waiting to happen - they started to close them 20 years ago because the contributions needed to fund the promises were not sustainable. Successive governments have done bugger all about it because lets face it its a vote loser so the effect is that the problem has just grown & grown. It should have been dealt with years ago but it was too thorny an issue. The more unemployment increases the worse the position gets - less paying tax to help subsidise the scheme.

If you don't accept any change then the only answer is that everyone has to pay more tax, public sector included, unless you know of an alternative solution. We could of course just pretend there is no problem until one day some government in the future will have to turn round and say Oh dear sorry, no money left now cannot pay your pension any more


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> No Spellweaver I don't think its fair not at all, I believe if you employ someone on a package then you should have to honour that. But this issue will not go away.
> 
> Private industry knew years & years ago that final salary schemes were a disaster waiting to happen - they started to close them 20 years ago because the contributions needed to fund the promises were not sustainable. Successive governments have done bugger all about it because lets face it its a vote loser so the effect is that the problem has just grown & grown. It should have been dealt with years ago but it was too thorny an issue. The more unemployment increases the worse the position gets - less paying tax to help subsidise the scheme.
> 
> If you don't accept any change then the only answer is that everyone has to pay more tax, public sector included, unless you know of an alternative solution. We could of course just pretend there is no problem until one day some government in the future will have to turn round and say Oh dear sorry, no money left now cannot pay your pension any more


So why all the disagreement? As I said earlier this is just what the Government want. If we are at each others throats then we are taking the heat off those that caused the problem in the first place.

We were told our pension scheme was sustainable and was healthy - so what has changed all of a sudden? Fingers in the pot comes to my mind - suspicious bugger that I am


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> Final salary schemes are dead in the water because they are too expensive, on a simplistic level people live a hell of a lot longer so the pensions obviously have to pay out a lot longer too basically there is not enough money going in to pay out the amounts promised. So yes in an ideal world we want happy public sector workers but if no change is made to the pension as it stands at the moment then there is not enough money to fund it. Are you happy to pay a hell of a lot more tax yourself to subsidise the scheme so they can continue to get a pension you can never hope to achieve, because that is the only alternative to no change


Sorry to burst the bubble but it's not because people live longer, it's because pensions actuaries forecast (guess) they will live longer. These are not real costs we're talking about they are pure speculation. Government is using this speculation to try and turn the country against public sector workers so they can use "our" (tax) money to pay for the Government's cock ups instead of using the bloated wealth of the finance sector.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

Good article here showing correlation between union membership vs wealth of the 1%. Nb it's comment not news... But makes good arguments for the pro strike side

Five reasons public service workers are right to strike | Seumas Milne | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> If you don't accept any change then the only answer is that everyone has to pay more tax, public sector included, unless you know of an alternative solution.


Well for a start you could look past the government propaganda and realise that there are other solutions. How about increasing taxes paid by the ultra rich and the financial institutions who got the country into this mess to start with, instead of expecting the lowest paid workers to shoulder the burden? How about not selling off assets such as Northern Rock to rich cronies at a loss to taxpayers? After all, we're all in it together, right? Ah, if only that were true!


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

For my twopenneth....

DoodlesRule, whilst I don't necessarily agree with you, I respect the fact that you do actually have a considered opinion rather than an objection on the grounds of inconvenience. 

As for tax, yes I'd happily pay more tax if I could trust the b**gers I was paying it to!! I'd love to see our elderly get the pensions they earned, our nhs resourced properly, etc. I'd like our teachers to be paid a wage that means it only attracts the very best. Then you never know but we might actually educate and inspire the next generation to become politicians actually worthy of the vote!!!


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

I work in the voluntary sector - ie: I work for a charity, and am on minimum wage. I dont know of any office managers on minimum wage in the private, or public sector.

I have no pension, except the Govenrnment pernsion, if that is still around when they now predict I can retire, which is about 68 yrs old.

I do the job i do, where I do it, because I enjoy it. I feel I make a difference to peoples lives, and actually I do.

Thats also what teachers, and many other people in the public do. Could they get paid more, doing the same job, in the private sector - yes of course they could.

So yes, i do agree with this strike. These people going on strike are sticking up for their rights. 

Who in the private sector would just sit back and say' ya know what, freeze my pay for the next 3 years, and then tell me I have to make extra contributions to my pension, but am willing to accept even less when I retire, than my original contributions would amount to. Just to make sure you get the message, I am going to take a days unpaid leave - which I cant afford to do, but i will do it anyway just to spite people that dont know me'

Most (if not all) of the people striking cannot afford to lose a days pay, and also cannot afford to pay more each month into a pension, that will pay them less when they retire.

Would any of the people oppossing the strike be willing to double their monthly pension payments, just to receive less than they were originally told they would receive?


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Ok My take on this teacher strike is as follows....
I don't know the ins and outs of it as I never have the time to read up on stuff because my life is busy 24/7 all I know that is on Wednesday I have to find someone to look after my child because they're busy bloody striking....:mad5:
The letter I received on the subject did make me pee myself laughing though. It stated that they would have to keep the children off school because with the small amount of staff that would be there they couldn't ensure the safety and well being of the children...to which i responded with they couldn't ensure the safety and well being of my child full stop weather she goes to school or not. Just lately she has has had a daily beating, name calling, bitching and spiteful comments from a group of kids and the whole place is no easier to control than a p1ss up in a brury, since they merged the schools and changed the place into whatever posh name they give them now it's worse not better. I have been in time an time again and although i appreciate teachers can only do so much and their job is hard etc etc , this is my daughter and her needs come first to me, not how hard they find teaching....and changing her school is so much harder than it used to be. Never mind the teachers want to strike I think half the bloody kids do.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Plebob said:


> If you can't be bothered finding out about the politics of the situation then please don't rant against teachers. If you are not happy with your daughter's school then do something about it.


How dare you accuse me of not being bothered ..if you care to read my post properly you will see that it isn't a case of 'can't be bothered'..and if I want to rant about teachers I will....as I have a right to my opinion and the teaching staff in my childs school ARE totally crap...fact....and if you read properly you will see that I AM doing something about it, but law states that she has to stay in education whilst I am doing so.
Besides which, if our child is bullied in school do we only have the right to rant about it if we're up on politics??


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

the apathy here gets me

we all complain that we cany afford to live yet do nothing about it

our petrol prices go up and we moan and do nothing else,in america they simply stop buying the stuff

in france if taxes go up they block everything,what do we do?

the bigger picture is that the government are eroding our spending power which is keeping us in recession,no purchases means no VAT

our youth are on such poor money they simply cant afford to branch out on their own,most are on minimum wage if they actually have a job,who-ever got a mortgage on minimum wage?


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Claire 7435 - if my child was getting a daily beating at school and the school was not doing anything about it - then my daughter would not be going to that school.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Well for a start you could look past the government propaganda and realise that there are other solutions. How about increasing taxes paid by the ultra rich and the financial institutions who got the country into this mess to start with, instead of expecting the lowest paid workers to shoulder the burden? How about not selling off assets such as Northern Rock to rich cronies at a loss to taxpayers? After all, we're all in it together, right? Ah, if only that were true!


I don't take note of government propaganda, whichever side are in  Is that true about the lowest paid workers, according to what I have read anyone earning less than £15,000 will not have to pay anymore into their pensions then its on a sliding scale depending on what you earn. I do agree that the "average" earners are suffering because of the vastly overpaid civil service managerial posts - there should be a cap on both salary and potential pensions in the public sector.

Ultra rich should pay a fair share I don't believe in massively over-taxing them simply because they have become wealthy through their own hard work or talents - they will just leave the country so the net result is no tax from them at all, its happened before



Shazach said:


> For my twopenneth....
> 
> DoodlesRule, whilst I don't necessarily agree with you, I respect the fact that you do actually have a considered opinion rather than an objection on the grounds of inconvenience.
> 
> As for tax, yes I'd happily pay more tax if I could trust the b**gers I was paying it to!! I'd love to see our elderly get the pensions they earned, our nhs resourced properly, etc. I'd like our teachers to be paid a wage that means it only attracts the very best. Then you never know but we might actually educate and inspire the next generation to become politicians actually worthy of the vote!!!


Thank you  Probably have your wish on taxes soon enough though - they are looking to combine income tax and national insurance into just one tax. Claim is to simplify the tax system but the root is if its just one tax we will all forget that national insurance is supposed to be towards state pension, health etc. Then they are bringing in NEST - its a pension that we will all be automatically enrolled in with compulsory contriubtions from both employer & employee. Wouldn't be surprised if bring in something similar for health care as well.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Claire 7435 - if my child was getting a daily beating at school and the school was not doing anything about it - then my daughter would not be going to that school.


I'm in the process of changing her schools but unfortunately I have no choice but to send her whilst the application goes through as the last time it all started I refused to send her each time it happened until they sorted it out and I was taken to court. It's horrible because I feel like I'm sending her into the lions den each and every day and she spends her days hiding and avoiding the bullies.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> I'm in the process of changing her schools but unfortunately I have no choice but to send her whilst the application goes through as the last time it all started I refused to send her each time it happened until they sorted it out and I was taken to court. It's horrible because I feel like I'm sending her into the lions den each and every day and she spends her days hiding and avoiding the bullies.[/QUOT
> 
> Sorry that you and your daughter are going through this - it is not on. No child should have to be in fear fo being badly bullied.
> 
> ...


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Clare7435 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm in the process of changing her schools but unfortunately I have no choice but to send her whilst the application goes through as the last time it all started I refused to send her each time it happened until they sorted it out and I was taken to court. It's horrible because I feel like I'm sending her into the lions den each and every day and she spends her days hiding and avoiding the bullies.[/QUOT
> ...


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> gorgeous said:
> 
> 
> > My Daughter is 13 and the bullies range from 13 to 15, she was a lovely bright girl who loved school until she started senior school now she's ttally different and will do anything to get out of going.I've taken to calling the LEA and in certain cases like the other week when she had her hair pulled down and kneed in the face the police but although they d get in touch with the school, a warning for it all to flare up after a few weeks because she 'grassed' just doesn't do it. She's 13....5'8 with looks a lot older than she really is so the poor girl sticks out like a sore thumb, also because she is only 13 and acts like a 13 yr old people think she's older and just immature. The last meeting we had the head of house went to get her details and couldnt find them, but it turned out she was looking in the files for the year 11's so even they think she's older....I have to say I feel like pulling her out completely and home schooling her...but then where do the social skills come in.
> ...


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Clare7435 said:
> 
> 
> > OMG hun im so sorry! I know exactly what your daughter is going through..she must be living a life of absolute hell! Does she fight back? I know there is only so far you can push someone before they do snap.
> ...


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> harley bear said:
> 
> 
> > She has fought back once and she spent the rest of the day feeling guilty for doing so because she hates the thought of hurting someone else, the circumstances are quite crap with that one incident and it would take ages to explain and probably get me lynched so I won't  but she doesn't tend to fight back because there's usually a gang of them. I did email then yesterday though because as I get taken to curt for not sending her because of this because it means I'm breaking the law, could they be taken to court for failing to ensure the safety and well being of my daughter because this is breaking their contract of the bullying policy...I await a reply. I do have Parent partnership involved now though and have reported the school in general to the LEA because the whole palce is going down hill.No control over the kids, no real eduction as the staff keep leaving and they permanently have stand in staff who just allow the kids to do what they want, what's shocking is that the last incident happened in a lesson.
> ...


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Ultra rich should pay a fair share I don't believe in massively over-taxing them simply because they have become wealthy through their own hard work or talents - they will just leave the country so the net result is no tax from them at all, its happened before


I actually agree with this, the reason we have no money is because we try to charge the rich HALF of theit earnt money in taxes, that is absolutely ridiculous. If this wasn't the case & the country was fair about it then think how many celebs would stay in England instead of going to places like Monacco where they can keep their money. A good example would be our formula 1 drivers like Louis Hamilton, he doesn't live here now because he'd be paying half of his money to the government which is crazy IMO. If he only had to pay about £10 million or something out of his huge amount of money then if would realy help the government & he might feel that he'd still have most of his money for himself seen as he earns it & actually want to stay in his country! That's a really good reason that we have no money in the country & something needs to be done to ensure we keep the rich living in our country instead of abroad.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Clare7435 said:
> 
> 
> > Well you certainly wouldnt be lynched by me! I can tell you that for nothing!
> ...


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

LauraIzPops said:


> I actually agree with this, the reason we have no money is because we try to charge the rich HALF of theit earnt money in taxes, that is absolutely ridiculous. If this wasn't the case & the country was fair about it then think how many celebs would stay in England instead of going to places like Monacco where they can keep their money. A good example would be our formula 1 drivers like Louis Hamilton, he doesn't live here now because he'd be paying half of his money to the government which is crazy IMO. If he only had to pay about £10 million or something out of his huge amount of money then if would realy help the government & he might feel that he'd still have most of his money for himself seen as he earns it & actually want to stay in his country! That's a really good reason that we have no money in the country & something needs to be done to ensure we keep the rich living in our country instead of abroad.


I heard Michael Caine talking about it few months back, at one time he was taxed something ridiculous like 80% said he just though bugger this so moved abroad. So not only did he then pay no uk tax at all, also didn't spend any of his money here either - happened with loads of celebs at the same time so was really counter productive


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> harley bear said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I've had plenty of excuses believe me, it infuriates me because my 2 sons have aspergers syndrome, one of them is well behaved and suffers more the social/academic/mental age/emotional side of things where as the eldest struggled more with social /emotional and behaviour difficulties and when he acted up in school i was the first to tell them to pull him out of lesson as it wasn't fair n the other kids and even though he wasn't a bully I'd have dragged him out myself if he'd have bullied anyone, too many schools excuse the child who has special needs, yes they have special needs but does this mean other children have to suffer...it's so annoying.
> ...


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> I heard Michael Caine talking about it few months back, at one time he was taxed something ridiculous like 80% said he just though bugger this so moved abroad. So not only did he then pay no uk tax at all, also didn't spend any of his money here either - happened with loads of celebs at the same time so was really counter productive


I've said this on here for bloody ages. We tax the rich stupid amounts, so what happens? They all move abroad. Sad fact is a lot of rich people in this country DO have skills and its the likes of footballers that are rich (to an extent unjustly I would say) who stay behind. Put it this way I don't think its a coincidence that the UK is now an almost service provider only industry because the vast majority of our skilled and talented disappear elsewhere. My grandparents moved to the Isle of Man over 20 years ago because of the tax over here. They refused to come back even when my Grandpa was 86 still because of the tax. If it was even a fraction lower they would have been right here spending their money assisting in sorting out our economy. But no.

Lets not forget HSBC are supposedly moving their headquarters out of London to Hong Kong. Why? Because of the costs of being here. They are one of the minority who our government did not need to bail out, they stood on their own yet are being forced out because of corporate tax rates and the like. Its utterly ridiculous.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Just been talking to someone who is starting a business up in america - won't do it in the uk because of the tax and all the employment laws here. Over there apparently, no sick pay, just 2 weeks holiday a year and if you don't like them just sack them! Going a bit too far but does make you stop & think!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Just been talking to someone who is starting a business up in america - won't do it in the uk because of the tax and all the employment laws here. Over there apparently, no sick pay, just 2 weeks holiday a year and if you don't like them just sack them! Going a bit too far but does make you stop & think!


They don't have anything like our maternity pay packages either. Can't have a year off like you can here after a baby unless you self fund and you wouldn't have a job if you went to go back after that either. I think they've got the right idea to an extent, its no wonder women are looked down on in the workplace for promotions and the like because they might have children in the next few years. Losing a fantastic member of staff for an entire year could have a massive effect on an organisation.

Its a sad fact but we're never going to have women and men on equal levels if we still stop to have kids then expect to go straight back. Its just never going to work.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Where I work once employed a youngster (think she was about 19 or 20 at the time) - after 6 weeks announced she was pregnant, then went off sick for the whole of her pregnancy then took maternity leave for however long that was at the time. So had to keep her job and pay her all that time a year or more for a few weeks work, when it was time to return she announced was not coming back


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## LauraIzPops (Oct 2, 2011)

Well she sounds like a little cow that knew exactly what she was doing Doodlesrule :/
Unfortunatley you'll always get scrounging people in our country because of the way it's run  I'd just like to think that with MOST people that would not be the case.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Clare7435 said:
> 
> 
> > Ohhhhh i would have hit the roof! totally disgusting that the school treat your daughter like that! ...no matter what happens from now on report EVERY incident to the police, they will get so fed up of hearing from you thay will probably put some pressure on the school to get everything sorted!
> ...


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> harley bear said:
> 
> 
> > Me to, I was bullied at school and it angers me so much when things like this happen, I have reported incidents in the past to the police but didn't think to use it in my favour by reporting everything like this, you never now maybe if I become thorn in their side they might get p1ssed off with me and actually do something:biggrin:
> ...


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Due to the striking, tomorrow I shall be having a peaceful lie-in ... no school run, no bins banging while being collected .... see there is always a silver lining


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

westie~ma said:


> Due to the striking, tomorrow I shall be having a peaceful lie-in ... no school run, no bins banging while being collected .... see there is always a silver lining


No pack ups to do either!

Might even take the wee darlings for lunch!


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## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

Shazach said:


> I honestly cannot believe some of the attitudes on this thread!!
> 
> WTF kind of society do we live in? You just have to look at celebrity/sportsmen earnings, look at the media - journalists activities to feed a percieved desire for press, bankers bonuses....and what do you get riled at? That you are inconvenienced for a day by people who actually for once in this bl**dy country are standing up for themselves.
> 
> I despair.


I agree, amazing isn't it! And what's more you see rich tories on the news saying how disgusting it is that the strikes are happening blah de blah, whingeing on and saying how they don't get anywhere near as good a pension deal - no cos they don't need it! Half the ones decrying the strikers are getting nice big fat bonusus... :frown2: Whatever happened to a bit of solidarity eh


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## Eithne (Mar 23, 2011)

I am out on strike tomorrow, it has been a long, hard decision to make not only for myself but my colleagues. However, I did not run this country into the ground whilst claiming large salaries, big bonuses and settlement packages and then on top of all that paid no tax. 

I have been penalised enough with no wage rise of any sort for 4 and half years whilst the cost of living increases at the rate of knots, now my pension which I have paid into since the age of 16 has to suffer due to the gross missmanagement of others. I do my job because I love what I do not for the money, but enough is enough. 

I also appreciate those in the private sector have had it tough as has every person currently in work, however this shouldn't be in a race to the bottom. 

To all those striking tomorrow, Good Luck!!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Eithne said:


> I am out on strike tomorrow, it has been a long, hard decision to make not only for myself but my colleagues. However, I did not run this country into the ground whilst claiming large salaries, big bonuses and settlement packages and then on top of all that paid no tax.
> 
> I have been penalised enough with no wage rise of any sort for 4 and half years whilst the cost of living increases at the rate of knots, now my pension which I have paid into since the age of 16 has to suffer due to the gross missmanagement of others. I do my job because I love what I do not for the money, but enough is enough.
> 
> ...


Good luck. I don't know the ins and outs of this as such but from what you say I back it 100%


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## Eithne (Mar 23, 2011)

Pheebs said:


> I'm striking on Wednesday (I'm not a teacher, though).
> 
> This is why.
> 
> ...


Great post and you have said what I think in a much better way. I got my latest pension forecast in last week and it is estimated at £10,000 pa, however as I am still fairly young the chances of me reaching retirement age is slim, I'll probably die at my desk if the tories have their way.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Will people on here cross a picket line tomorrow if there is one outside a place they need to go into?

I will as i have a hospital appt..... rather concerned about any hassle i may get from strikers.


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## Eithne (Mar 23, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Never mond threads being posted 20 days ago the letters should have been sent out as soon as they knew they were striking not giving parents a few measley days notice!
> Like i say im not going to be affected but i dont see any good coming out of this! ESP with a bloody tory government!


Tomorrow's strike has been on the radar for a number of months with the 30/11 being advertised as the strike date as far back as the beginning of Sepetember. You must appreciate that there is a legal requirement to serve notice on employers stating intent to strike, the the membership needs to be balloted and votes counted and employers and union members notified of the outcome. Instead of directing your ire at those striking tomorrow, maybe take it up with your local council and ask them why they failed to notify you earlier, they have known about it long enough.


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## Eithne (Mar 23, 2011)

hazel pritchard said:


> Will people on here cross a picket line tomorrow if there is one outside a place they need to go into?
> 
> I will as i have a hospital appt..... rather concerned about any hassle i may get from strikers.


I will not cross any picket line as i am out on strike, however, morally I could not cross a picket line at any time.

a picket line can only have 6 on the line at anytime afaik, you will more than likely me asked to support the action and be provided with leaflets etc, however, i very much doubt you will get hassle. Suprised your appt has not been cancelled though, as I know here all appts are cancelled.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

hazel pritchard said:


> Will people on here cross a picket line tomorrow if there is one outside a place they need to go into?
> 
> I will as i have a hospital appt..... rather concerned about any hassle i may get from strikers.


I'll cross one to go into uni if I have to. I need to get some books out of the library and all my assignments are due in December 12th. I can't not go in without putting myself at a massive disadvantage time wise.


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## Oscar chases ducks (Nov 23, 2011)

Just a couple of points made on Facebook at the mo:

Remember when Teachers, Policemen, Police staff,Ambulance staff, Nurses, Midwives, Doctors, groundsmen and Fireman crashed the stock market, wiped out Banks, took billions in bonuses and paid no tax? No, me neither. Please copy and paste to status for 24 hours to show your support against the government's latest attack on pensions and public sector workers

So when the ruling class decide we can have a day off for the royal wedding it doesn't damage the economy but when the workers decide to strike it costs millions! COPY AND PASTE THIS IF YOU SEE THE HYPOCRISY AND DOUBLE STANDARDS


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

all this strike means to me and my hubby who is on strike tomorrow and does not contribute any extra towards a retirement pension because his wages are so rubbish to start with and having no pay rise either for last few years is even less wages in December so now i'm worrying even more about xmas as we're supposed to do the dinner this year,think we'll have to cancel,and knowing its been on the cards doesn't help because we havnt been able to save for the loss of wages due to other needs,mind you if the damn council got their finger out and paid my hubby the 1200 they owe him wages wise we could have a hell of a xmas,my hubby and many of his colleagues are so sick of being treat unfairly by their employer the council and taking flack from the public shouting and threatening them in the streets i say let the rubbish pile up in the streets dont cut the grass or pick the litter up and dont catch the rats and maybe then they maybe appreciated
also not everyone has voted to strike but there is no way its worth the risk of crossing a picket line when you got to go back and work with those people


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Oscar chases ducks said:


> Just a couple of points made on Facebook at the mo:
> 
> Remember when Teachers, Policemen, Police staff,Ambulance staff, Nurses, Midwives, Doctors, groundsmen and Fireman crashed the stock market, wiped out Banks, took billions in bonuses and paid no tax? No, me neither. Please copy and paste to status for 24 hours to show your support against the government's latest attack on pensions and public sector workers
> 
> So when the ruling class decide we can have a day off for the royal wedding it doesn't damage the economy but when the workers decide to strike it costs millions! COPY AND PASTE THIS IF YOU SEE THE HYPOCRISY AND DOUBLE STANDARDS


If you carry on like this you won't get your invite to the Diamond Jubilee or the Olympics....


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## Oscar chases ducks (Nov 23, 2011)

I know - I think that'll be my invite to the Queen's Garden Party ripped up and binned - Oh well, I'll save money not having to travel to London with the expensive fuel costs!:biggrin:


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Good Luck for today ..hope it goes well 

Could be a long journey in for me today..the pickets are up bright and early!!!!


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2011)

Passed a few (rather chilly looking) picket lines this morning walking through westminster, including one on our doorstep!

Good luck today!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Good luck to all the strikers today.


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## francesandjon (Jun 3, 2009)

I am not at work today so haven't had to decide whether to strike or not.

It sounds like the majority of my colleagues who are working have not gone on strike (I heard from a friend at 9.30 - 3 crews working which is about normal for that time....maybe 4 on a good day).

There are picket lines at the hospital and ambulance station but it is peaceful and people aren't getting hassle for crossing them.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2011)

Good luck to all the strikers today


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Again I agree, Good Luck to the Strikers


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2011)

Popped out at lunchtime and the picketer were gone, off to their march I expect....coaches and police vans scattering most of westminster! Plus the traffic is chaos out there!

They must be on the move :thumbup1:


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

harley bear said:


> DONT! Twist my words! I said they should have as much notice as possible so if they work can arrange alternative childcare instead of loosing their days wage! Is THAT really so bad to give others a little consideration?


I mean this in the nicest possible way, and it's hard to write it without sounding rude...but this strike has been on the news almost daily for at least a month. I think maybe you should have got the letter from the school a little earlier, but I am also a little suprised that it has come as a shock to anyone that schools are closed today?!

Where I work, the students were asking if school would be closed (and crossing their fingers hoping) from a few weeks ago!

Naomi


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm going to get slammed for my opinion ( don't worry - I'm used to it  )

But schools are not a free childcare service. 

They get closed for a variety of reasons and parent's should always have a back-up plan arranged just in case of this eventuality. And yes, if all other options are exhausted then you have to take a day off work and a hit in your pay-packet. But at the end of the day, they are your children not the schools. 



Our bin men were on strike last year on the run up to christmas, and was it annoying - yes. I had to take my bins to the tip and empty them myself. But at the end of the day they provide a service. It's not a human right to have my bins emptied! At the end of the day - it's my rubbish, not theirs.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

missnaomi said:


> I mean this in the nicest possible way, and it's hard to write it without sounding rude...but this strike has been on the news almost daily for at least a month. I think maybe you should have got the letter from the school a little earlier, but I am also a little suprised that it has come as a shock to anyone that schools are closed today?!
> 
> Where I work, the students were asking if school would be closed (and crossing their fingers hoping) from a few weeks ago!
> 
> Naomi


As i have said many times this strike does not affect me but the school my sons go to were still deciding if they would close or not yesterday afternoon..and while its come as no shock to any parent really the length of time they have taken to decide is a sheer p1ss take!



Helbo said:


> I'm going to get slammed for my opinion ( don't worry - I'm used to it  )
> 
> But schools are not a free childcare service.
> 
> ...


No they are not the schools children and i would prefer to look after my kids anyday before taking them to school ..thats not the point! Some parents may look at the school as a child sitting service but some parents also pay for their children to be looked after out of hours by the school and in these cases they might find it very difficult to find other childcare.

Im not in agreement with the strike anyway, sont agree with the opperations being cancelled or anything..we all knew the cuts were coming not THAT was no surprise!


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## Adon (Aug 10, 2011)

I spent today on a picket line and read this thread with interest. Only a few of our large workforce crossed the picket line as they were on strike. There was no harassment as after thatcher there are strict rules re numbers and conduct etc. We received lots of support from the public today with complete strangers brings us hit drinks, food and good wishes. The police gave us kind support and even wore one of our supportive stickers!The reason my union is taking strike action is the government has gone back on the agreement previously made re pensions. Contributions are going up and we will have to work past 65. This means less jobs for the next generation. It is time we took the attitude of other nations and end the apathy and lack of political awareness we now have in the uk. 
This strike is not about greediness but fairness. To suggest people who work hard in stressful conditions should think themselves lucky is rather silly. If we took this attitude we would work for pennies and have no rights. The uk already has some of the longest working hours.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Adon said:


> I spent today on a picket line and read this thread with interest. Only a few of our large workforce crossed the picket line as they were on strike. There was no harassment as after thatcher there are strict rules re numbers and conduct etc. We received lots of support from the public today with complete strangers brings us hit drinks, food and good wishes. The police gave us kind support and even wore one of our supportive stickers!The reason my union is taking strike action is the government has gone back on the agreement previously made re pensions. Contributions are going up and we will have to work past 65. This means less jobs for the next generation. It is time we took the attitude of other nations and end the apathy and lack of political awareness we now have in the uk.
> This strike is not about greediness but fairness. To suggest people who work hard in stressful conditions should think themselves lucky is rather silly. If we took this attitude we would work for pennies and have no rights. The uk already has some of the longest working hours.


Very good point re jobs and younger generation!

Does anyone who is opposed to the strikes care that with the age of retirement being pushed up, there will be even less jobs available for their children when the time comes for them to earn a living and support themselves/their own families?

I don't really even know anyone aside from on here who is striking but I can see why people would. The strike last April ish time at my university I thought was poorly organised because they were striking then they weren't then they were then they weren't. They did in the end because hundreds of us turned up for our lectures only to find out we had nobody to teach us despite spending money to go in and paying for them to teach us we got let down which I did think was bad, made an awful lot of us totally disregard what they had to say about why they were on strike.


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## Eithne (Mar 23, 2011)

Just thawing out from today's march and rally in Glasgow, The turnout was fantastic and the support from people just going about and doing their day to day business was unreal.

I have popped a few photos for those who are interested!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Eithne said:


> Just thawing out from today's march and rally in Glasgow, The turnout was fantastic and the support from people just going about and doing their day to day business was unreal.
> 
> I have popped a few photos for those who are interested!


Thanks for sharing, thats fantastic looked like a brilliant turnout


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## Eithne (Mar 23, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> Thanks for sharing, thats fantastic looked like a brilliant turnout


It was fantastic, public support was brilliant. I got interviewed by one of the daily newspapers up here and I am praying she doesn't put in an article, think I started rambling on


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

We were at the Oxford rally which was hooooge. Never seen anything like it outside of London... thanks to all of those that were there and on the pickets in Culham and Harwell.

Great support on the march but particular thanks to the man with the megaphone warning of imminent "horse poo" in the road... wish the Police would clean up after themselves


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Elmo the Bear said:


> We were at the Oxford rally which was hooooge. Never seen anything like it outside of London... thanks to all of those that were there and on the pickets in Culham and Harwell.
> 
> *Great support on the march but particular thanks to the man with the megaphone warning of imminent "horse poo" in the road... wish the Police would clean up after themselves :rolleyes*:


Don't worry, an Oxford gardener will have claimed it...too good to leave on the road


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Thank you everyone on here for all your good wishes!

Didn't take a camera, but these are the pics from Sheffield - I couldn't go on the marches because the arthritis means I can't walk very far or very fast, but I sat on the picket line at our hospital all day. It was very peaceful - we did have people crossing the picket line, but many people didn't 

And the local people were great - especially the lady who brought out flasks of soup - an absolute life saver!

The arthritis is giving me some right jip this morning after being out in the cold for so long -but it was worth it and I'd do it again!

BBC News - In pictures: Public sector strike in Sheffield


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## Eithne (Mar 23, 2011)

Well I ended up in the Herald and the Evening Times. I kept quiet about it and no one mentioned it at work, but since the times has come out I am getting plenty of texts. It actually reads ok but still slightly embarassed


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

I feel the need to share a Viz Top Tip my friend has linked to on FB:

_MILLIONAIRE MP's - snap hospital cleaners out of their fairy tale existences by telling them they should live in "the real world"._


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2011)

Good on them all, just a shame my daughters school was open, a morning in bed would have been nice


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)




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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Eithne said:


> Well I ended up in the Herald and the Evening Times. I kept quiet about it and no one mentioned it at work, but since the times has come out I am getting plenty of texts. It actually reads ok but still slightly embarassed


 I think we need a link!!


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## Eithne (Mar 23, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> I think we need a link!!


I copy and pasted the evening times article, as the more I think about it I am quite proud now  Getting slightly disappointed that she never wrote my comment when I said if the tory govt had their way I would probably die at my desk 

Its strike one...

1 Dec 2011

IT has been called the biggest strike in a generation and it brought most of Glasgow and the West of Scotland to a standstill.

As public sector workers went back to their jobs today the impact of yesterdays strike, which saw thousands of public sector workers across Scotland walk out over proposed changes to their pensions, was beginning to be assessed.

It is estimated as many as 10,000 people attended a mass demonstrations in Glasgow  five times more than expected  with a similar number of protesters in Edinburgh while picket lines were set up outside hospitals, schools and recreational facilities around the country.

More than 300,000 people are believed to have gone on strike in Scotland, joining 2million in Britain, making it the largest-scale day of industrial action in decades.

Union leaders hailed the mass walkout as the biggest strike since the 1920s with public services brought to a virtual standstill.

Around 87% of teachers and classroom assistants took part in the action

As well as tens of thousands of health workers and civil servants who took part in the action, 180,500 council employees stayed away from work.

A total of 14 unions in Scotland joined the walkout and the effects were far-reaching, with all local authorities reporting severe disruption to business.

Around 99% of schools shut to pupils, and hospitals were left running largely on a Sunday service. Up to 2000 elective operations were cancelled with some 18,500 appointments rearranged.

A number of court cases were also suspended following the walkout of procurator-fiscals and court administrators.

No weddings or civil partnerships were held in council-run registries with some public transport halted by the action.

They want us to work longer pay more and get less in the end  its a disgrace

Union-led rallies were held in cities and major towns, though police claimed the Glasgow protest attracted only 5000.

More than 15,300 Glasgow City Council employees did not turn up for work in the day of action which saw a rally snake its way one-and-a-half miles from Shuttle Street to Barrowland.

Dave Watson, organiser for Unison, said the number of workers demonstrating had outstripped expectations.

He said: The march in Glasgow had five times more people than we thought. It was meant to be a short march but people wanted to do something after the picket. We had 10,000 people there and the STUC had booked a space for 2000.

Mr Watson rejected David Camerons claim that the strike had been a damp squib. That is not the description that anyone who was at the rally would use  it just shows just how out of touch he, and the other millionaire members of the government, are.

The TUC called it the biggest strike in a generation and trade union chiefs boasted of a historic turnout.

Last night, Francis Maude, the Cabinet Office Minister, issued a statement thanked the committed public sector workers who turned up to work. We are very grateful for their dedication.

Back in Glasgow marchers from across the West of Scotland the walkout workers in the rally were joined by grandparents, teenagers, and children and the mood was one was determination, defiance, camaraderie and hope.

A cacophony of noise built as drummers, megaphones, whistles and chants of: No ifs, no buts, no public pension cuts and No way, make the cheeky bankers pay competed for air time.

Among the marchers was *Eithne*, a Scottish Water worker from Glasgow, who said: Im 30, but I have been paying into my pension since I was 16. The Tory Government wants us to work longer, pay more and get less at the end.

It looks like I might never be able to afford to retire or, at the very least, work until Im 70 its a disgrace.

Nurse Christine Millar, 47, of the citys Dennistoun said: This is yet another sacrifice nurses have to make. Its something we have to stand up and fight for together.

Retired teachers Rose Ritchie and Mary McDonagh looked on and Ms Ritchie said: Its fantastic to see the turnout and strength of feeling. We are enjoying our pensions. All of these people here are working just as hard and they deserve to enjoy theirs too.

At Glasgow Caledonian University there were four picket lines while at the nearby Royal Infirmary 11 picket lines saw 150 staff protesting.

Meanwhile, the citys Subway system was at a standstill as workers headed out.

Grahame Smith, general secretary of the Scottish Trades Union Congress, said: This is a historic day, the biggest strike since the 1920s.

If the Government dont recognise our determination to resist this then theyve got their heads in the sand.

The march made its way through the Merchant City towards George Square before making for the Gallowgate venue where speakers included Unison Scottish Secretary and STUC President, Mike Kirby, Scottish secretary for PCS Lynn Henderson, and Scottish general secretary of Unite, Pat Rafferty.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Good for you!! As some of you know I work in the voluntary sector and dont get a pension. Some of the people in my office were muttering 'I would like _any_ pension' etc.

Well yeah me too -* but* - my mum, ,and many many other people happen to work for the public sector. They have been paying into a pension scheme all the time they have worked there (30 odd yrs for my mum) and _now_ they are being told, they wont get as much as they were told when they joined, you have to work longer to get it _and_ you have to pay more each month, to get less at the end!

If I had been paying into something for 30 years, and then was being told that load of [email protected] I would be on strike too.

People arent asking for untold riches - they are just asking that what they get is _fair_!

My mum is on the right - at the front!!









Yes - she's smiling - she has just spotted her daughter with her daughters colleagues, out in the street supporting her and all the others









Very proud of her, and everyone else that stood up for themselves yeasterday


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## Eithne (Mar 23, 2011)

That's a lovely post MC and reading posts like that makes me feel proud of all my fellow workers who stood shoulder to shoulder yesterday to say enough is enough.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

It's made me proud of what I used to be a part of to see people standing up for themselves....I left the public sector around 18 months ago because the 12 hour days (and 7 day weeks at exam time) were destroying me. Our pensions had already taken a battering at that point. I was looking at my siblings, friends and my OH with similar skills and qualifications who are in the private sector and it wasn't just the financial rewards, it was the fact that if they worked all hours to get a project done on time, then they got that time back, they were treated like professionals who could be trusted to manage their time....so I jumped, and now work about a 20 hour week at home for a relatively painless drop in income. 
When I see this mantra about how the public sector have it so easy and "gold plated" I just wonder what planet those who quote it are on - I got out for a better quality of life!


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