# My bonded brothers have started fighting! What to do?



## giraffeonastick (Jun 10, 2010)

Last night, our Nethie Dwarves, from the same litter (brothers) 16.5 weeks and no signs of 'bits' dropping, started fighting. We separated them immediately and have checked for signs of wounds; there's a superficial scratch on each but no blood and no big damage.

It happened at 8.25, all the pet shops locally shut at 8pm (they would!), so I managed to source an unused dog crate which we have made up to a second cage for one of them; keeping things in the same place as the main cage.

My question is - do I keep them separate now until their bits have dropped, or could I reintroduce them to each other carefully making sure someone (or two of us) are with them at all times? I'm keeping them in separate cages for the foreseeable future. 

The one who's fur is lighter and softer is the one who's still shedding bits of fur this morning (I'm guessing he might be a bit stressed), but he is showing signs of 'bits' (there are two small lumps there anyway!) but the bigger one is not showing anything yet. I thought that ND's matured earlier as they were younger; seems not to be the case.

What would you do?


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## Lollie1515 (Feb 9, 2010)

i had this problem with Patch and Pebbles, I seperated them after a few fights. then got them done when the time come. 

Im not an expert but im sure when you seperate you have to do the re-introducion thing all over again.
:confused1:

Dont quote me on that tho.

I bonded patch and pebbles again, well after the op, but pebbles continually bullies patch, ripped his fur out and continally kept fighting, so with that they are permantly seperated.


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

I think with Males there is sometimes a dominate thing, so it sounds like your boys are getting to that age 

Personally, i would think about having them done, then there wont be as many hormones flying around etc... then unfortunatly you are going to have to re-introduce them. Keeping them seperate will make them forget each other and i presume you did this over night? Therefore they have been apart for hours and rabbits can forget each other in a matter of hours 

x


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Lollie1515 said:


> i had this problem with Patch and Pebbles, I seperated them after a few fights. then got them done when the time come.
> 
> Im not an expert but im sure when you seperate you have to do the re-introducion thing all over again.
> :confused1:
> ...


They proberbly did thank because he smelt WAAAAAYYYY different lol rabbits fight over space and objects etc so if you take it away they should work it out  If you want to try over again, let me know and ill talk you through how i bonded my 3 x


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## Lollie1515 (Feb 9, 2010)

Paws&Claws said:


> They proberbly did thank because he smelt WAAAAAYYYY different lol rabbits fight over space and objects etc so if you take it away they should work it out  If you want to try over again, let me know and ill talk you through how i bonded my 3 x


I had them properly bonded by VampireLust (starlight rabbit rescue) and for about 2 months they did fine, i kept them in a smaller hutch, smaller run and no feed bowl etc.

Then got new hutch about 3 months later... and all hell broke loose. Im so scared to bond them again.

Am really considering bonding Patch and Poppy, as i really think they would get on.



xx


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Lollie1515 said:


> I had them properly bonded by VampireLust (starlight rabbit rescue) and for about 2 months they did fine, i kept them in a smaller hutch, smaller run and no feed bowl etc.
> 
> Then got new hutch about 3 months later... and all hell broke loose. Im so scared to bond them again.
> 
> ...


The new cage proberbly smelt different  that was proberbly the problem x


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## giraffeonastick (Jun 10, 2010)

Ah, well, they are definitely being done when both of them have something to be lopped off! One is showing but the other has no sign.

Tentatively this evening, we let them out into the spare room (their usual runaround area) with two of us on hand in case they kicked off.

It was as if they'd never fought. Scrumpy (the smaller one) cuddled up to Marmite and they both licked and groomed each other. There wasn't a moment of malice or fighting in 45 mins.

However... I am very reticent about leaving them together without someone on hand, and as we are both at work during the day we will keep them in separate cages until they've both been neutered, and will ensure in the interim that they spend some time together with us on hand in case of any spats.


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## giraffeonastick (Jun 10, 2010)

Just an update on this. I have been keeping the boys apart when we are out at work, but in the evenings they have been put together; last night I popped them back in their cage for their food and they chilled out, groomed each other and fell asleep in their usual ying&yang position - still bonded despite being apart overnight.

I let them out into the spare room, where they normally run around; and discovered the problem. It appears that I have a gay bunny! The smaller one whose boy bits have dropped mounted his brother and tried to hump him. Immediately the 'recipient' (Marmite) turned around and tore a lump of fur from him and the fighting started again.

Marmite has been very stroppy over the last few days so I think his hormones are running wild; last night after I grabbed Scrumpy to save him from Marmite's anger, Marmite took his anger out on me; circling my feet and attacking my leg - he wouldn't let me leave the room for 10mins. There was no growling, just a very angry stance that I've not seen in him before.

It's been like having Kevin and Perry the teenagers in the house these last couple of weeks; I hope that Marmite drops soon because I can then get them both neutered together and rebond them during recovery.


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

giraffeonastick said:


> Just an update on this. I have been keeping the boys apart when we are out at work, but in the evenings they have been put together; last night I popped them back in their cage for their food and they chilled out, groomed each other and fell asleep in their usual ying&yang position - still bonded despite being apart overnight.
> 
> I let them out into the spare room, where they normally run around; and discovered the problem. It appears that I have a gay bunny! The smaller one whose boy bits have dropped mounted his brother and tried to hump him. Immediately the 'recipient' (Marmite) turned around and tore a lump of fur from him and the fighting started again.
> 
> ...


It sounds like they are getting to that age!  you dont have a gay bunny, you have a bunny that wants to be the 'top bunny' and the one in charge  My female rabbit use to hump my male rabbit to show that she was the best bunny and the one in charge, the male wouldnt like it and would run away, then bump into another bunny who would then run around and the other would chase her.  They always have a 'top bunny' and the one doing the humping is trying to be the top bun! the one on the bottom... doesnt like him being the top bun and is trying to be the top bun himself! :lol:

does that make sence? lol x


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## giraffeonastick (Jun 10, 2010)

Ah, yes, that makes sense. Hmmm, the strange thing is that the one trying to be 'top bunny' is the one who has been passive and willing to follow his brother around. He's the smaller of the two and has always been second to doing everything. Clearly not quite everything!

Is there any chance, do you think, of them being able to be together and not fight or try and be master bunny? Or should I separate them out and accept that two males won't work after all?

We have said that if we can't bond them after neutering then we may have to get rid of one; we don't have the space for two of everything in the house and only got two because we'd read that one gets lonely on their own. We opted for two from the same litter because we didn't think we'd have as many problems with bonding or fighting...

One last question: would it be a daft idea or could it work if I got a soft toy rabbit?!


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## Matrix/Logan (May 7, 2009)

Brothers really need to be neutered by about 3 months if they are to get on, this is well bofore the male hormones kick in! A lot of vets don't realise this and refuse to do them until 6 months by which time it is too late because the rabbits have already faught and don't get on!!!! 

I would advise you get them castrated and either get them a girlfriend each for company or maybe try to get them back together but to be honest it often isn't succesful as the bond is already on a thin line! I always have mixed sex pairs now and have everyone neutered. 

Hope you can get sorted with them. It's a shame you were sold 2 boys together really!


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## giraffeonastick (Jun 10, 2010)

They would've been castrated by now if they had anything to castrate! Mother nature is not being very friendly to them and is keeping them waiting... they are quite slow to develop really.

I will attempt rebonding when they've been neutered; as they're similar ages I can just about keep them separate until they're ready for neutering and then rebond them afterwards... I hope.

They are still bonded and even though they've been kept separate they are fine together, until Scrumpy gets the idea that he wants to prove his worth... then fur flies....


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

giraffeonastick said:


> They would've been castrated by now if they had anything to castrate! Mother nature is not being very friendly to them and is keeping them waiting... they are quite slow to develop really.
> 
> I will attempt rebonding when they've been neutered; as they're similar ages I can just about keep them separate until they're ready for neutering and then rebond them afterwards... I hope.
> 
> They are still bonded and even though they've been kept separate they are fine together, until Scrumpy gets the idea that he wants to prove his worth... then fur flies....


You may not think theres anything there to castrate but rabbits are very skilled at pulling their tackle back up inside themselves. If you start fondling them trying to feel for them then they'll disappear, they also do it when cold or stressed. I could never see George's as everytime I checked they disappeared inside him, even took him to the vets to make sure he didn't have retained testicles, which is very painful and can lead to big problems. Vet just asked how old he was and after saying he was 4 months he was booked in to be castrated. The vet basically said they should be down by now and if they are then they'll drop when he's anaesthetised as the muscles relax but if they're retained then they can also be dealt with and castrated. Sure enough they were just hiding when I tried to see them and he was a very well equipt little bunny who is now minus his buckhood.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

quite often the smaller tend to be girls? I would take them to a good bunny vets some will consider neutering while their bits are still quite small you can also start having their vaccinations so the actual check up would be part of the vaccination course and then go back in 2 weeks for the second jab


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## giraffeonastick (Jun 10, 2010)

Thanks Kammie, they're being booked in for their castration this week or next (whenever the vets have space) - I think you're right; I think they're there (we've certainly had the hormones to go with it!) but they're not letting me see!

It's the smaller one of the two that's dropped and has been humping his brother; so a little bit of me thinks "phew, we haven't got a girl by accident then"....


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

giraffeonastick said:


> Thanks Kammie, they're being booked in for their castration this week or next (whenever the vets have space) - I think you're right; I think they're there (we've certainly had the hormones to go with it!) but they're not letting me see!
> 
> It's the smaller one of the two that's dropped and has been humping his brother; so a little bit of me thinks "phew, we haven't got a girl by accident then"....


When i was having mine done i kept them all separate and alone for afew weeks but still in the same room so they could smell each other. That way i could ensure any medicine or liquid food they needed i knew they were having it and not one rabbits having more food then another etc! Plus you know if they have been to the toilet after the operation (which is important)

So you might need to keep them seperate for a few weeks to make sure they heal okay and get back to normal :thumbup: x


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## giraffeonastick (Jun 10, 2010)

Ah,that's interesting. I was going to bond them during their healing process, but I will probably wait until they have healed.

I do pop them in the same cage when they're calm (usually in the afternoon or just after eating); so they are spending time together. It just seems that they can't be out running around together as that's when they get a bit too over excited!


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

giraffeonastick said:


> Ah,that's interesting. I was going to bond them during their healing process, but I will probably wait until they have healed.
> 
> I do pop them in the same cage when they're calm (usually in the afternoon or just after eating); so they are spending time together. It just seems that they can't be out running around together as that's when they get a bit too over excited!


The 'over excitement' will proberbly be hormones and dominance at this stage. When they have been done there hormones are abit up and down for a week or two so bonding them during this time might be the same as trying to do it now.

Plus if the other rabbits not around for him to hump hes not going to hurt himself trying to hump when hes healing if that makes sence?

Once the hormones are calm and they have healed then start bonding :thumbup: x


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