# Non-aggressive biting



## Aeth (Mar 31, 2014)

I've had River for three weeks, she's two years old....and she's a bit bitey.

Sometimes it seems to be that she just needs to play and get rid of some energy, so I'm working on finding toys that will hold her attention and get her expending some energy.

But other times, it's like this languid, comfortable thing. Well, comfortable for her! Like, she's curled up leaning on me, then she kind of holds my arm with her paws (no claws, just pads) and then *chomp*. No aggression leading up to it, no ears laid back, no nothing, just a great big wide-mouthed.... *chomp*. She's done it to my fingers before and it's not so bad because she tends to wrap the canines _over_ my finger so I'm not getting the fangs. In that instance, she grabs my hand with paddy paws and draws it in first. But when she chomps my whole arm... that's sore! And that's what she's leaning towards more now, naturally! Even if I say 'ow!' loudly she doesn't move, she just lets go, blinks and curls back up again. She's not left a mark yet but I don't want it to get worse. Does anyone have any thoughts?


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Aeth said:


> I've had River for three weeks, she's two years old....and she's a bit bitey.
> 
> Sometimes it seems to be that she just needs to play and get rid of some energy, so I'm working on finding toys that will hold her attention and get her expending some energy.
> 
> But other times, it's like this languid, comfortable thing. Well, comfortable for her! Like, she's curled up leaning on me, then she kind of holds my arm with her paws (no claws, just pads) and then *chomp*. No aggression leading up to it, no ears laid back, no nothing, just a great big wide-mouthed.... *chomp*. She's done it to my fingers before and it's not so bad because she tends to wrap the canines _over_ my finger so I'm not getting the fangs. In that instance, she grabs my hand with paddy paws and draws it in first. But when she chomps my whole arm... that's sore! And that's what she's leaning towards more now, naturally! Even if I say 'ow!' loudly she doesn't move, she just lets go, blinks and curls back up again. She's not left a mark yet but I don't want it to get worse. Does anyone have any thoughts?


From what I research on the internet the best thing to do is get her toys that are on a wand and give her lots of playtime! when she bites say No is a deeper tone than you would normally use with her but don't shout! then put her down or away from you and leave her for a bit she might start to realise that when she bites she will be ignored! Other members on here will probably tell you to look at her diet too as food can make a difference to the way they behave!


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Henry the gentlest cat in the world used to do this occasionally when he first came (entire) and I could see a rapidly developing nasty situation with the bf taking it personally, so hopefully I can help.

When River does grab you, stay absolutely stock still, so whatever she has grabbed doesn't become struggling prey or an enemy. Do not look straight at her (which would be threatening) but very gently say no River and keep repeating it until she lets go. Then immediately change your tone and shower her with praise. 

Henry would close in if bf touched his tummy, he was pulling away and saying no loudly and sternly. This raised the confrontation level, which made Henry worse and worse, but only with him :001_unsure: whereas with me we were resolving the issue. I taught bf that when H showed his tummy he should go to his head, let H sniff his hand, tickle his chin, and slowly work down to his chest (not tummy) and walk away without a word at the slightest sign of whiskers forward or ears back. I know that's not the same situation as yours but hope it does help. I've also taught Molly to tell me she's had enough without swearing, in much the same way, and made a lot of progress with Purdy who gets overexcited and bites at times.


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## Aeth (Mar 31, 2014)

Soozi said:


> From what I research on the internet the best thing to do is get her toys that are on a wand and give her lots of playtime! when she bites say No is a deeper tone than you would normally use with her but don't shout! then put her down or away from you and leave her for a bit she might start to realise that when she bites she will be ignored! Other members on here will probably tell you to look at her diet too as food can make a difference to the way they behave!


Ah-hah, I did have a feathery mouse thing on a wand but it lost an ear in the first play session and was in pieces by the end of the first week  I got another one which is like a ball with feathers on but it really doesn't hold the same interest. I bought a new one today so we'll give that a try.

I will try working on a deeper tone to see if that helps... today she went as though she was going to bite my fingers but then pulled her paws to her forehead and pressed against her face instead, so maybe she's beginning to make changes.

As for the diet thing... I've a look at things on the site and honestly I'm reserving judgement on that side for now.


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## Aeth (Mar 31, 2014)

ForeverHome said:


> Henry the gentlest cat in the world used to do this occasionally when he first came (entire) and I could see a rapidly developing nasty situation with the bf taking it personally, so hopefully I can help.
> 
> When River does grab you, stay absolutely stock still, so whatever she has grabbed doesn't become struggling prey or an enemy. Do not look straight at her (which would be threatening) but very gently say no River and keep repeating it until she lets go. Then immediately change your tone and shower her with praise.
> 
> Henry would close in if bf touched his tummy, he was pulling away and saying no loudly and sternly. This raised the confrontation level, which made Henry worse and worse, but only with him :001_unsure: whereas with me we were resolving the issue. I taught bf that when H showed his tummy he should go to his head, let H sniff his hand, tickle his chin, and slowly work down to his chest (not tummy) and walk away without a word at the slightest sign of whiskers forward or ears back. I know that's not the same situation as yours but hope it does help. I've also taught Molly to tell me she's had enough without swearing, in much the same way, and made a lot of progress with Purdy who gets overexcited and bites at times.


Yeah, it does help, thanks. I've known cats in the past where you know exactly when to stop-and-back-away to avoid getting swatted... it doesn't seem like that kind of behaviour as she can do it when I'm pretty much ignoring her as well as when being petted/played with. I've noticed she gives the brush a lot of the same treatment when I'm brushing her (she's long-haired)


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Cats do have a need to chew, and this may be why she is biting you in play. I'd get her some toys she can bite and kick, such as the marvellous Kong Kickeroo (which I have several of spread around the house, so there's always one handy). Get the large size like these:

Kong Cat Kickeroo Giraffe: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

Also, as part of her diet I'd give her some food she can chew at and gnaw, such as raw chicken wings (good for her teeth and gum health) or some raw chunks of pork, beef or lamb. Make the chunks the size of a mouse so she has to make some effort to chew them. This will be heaps better for her teeth than any nasty ole dry food that's for sure! (which hopefully you're too wise to feed her anyway)


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Cats can also do this when they get over stimulated by the petting. Even mine, who have been taught from tiny dots never to bite me, will sometimes do this if I've been stroking them too long, even if they're still asking for it. I have the same response as FH which works really well, except that i say no in a sterner voice. They have now learned to push me away with paws to get me to stop what I'm doing, and when they do this, they get tons of praise.


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## Aeth (Mar 31, 2014)

Okay, I've been watching her for a few days and it's I really don't think it's an over-stimulation thing as she's far more likely to do it when I'm 'ignoring' her or my attention is diverted. It does seem to happen more on work days, I've noticed. She has tried to bite a few times since my last post, but she seems to stop herself... and every time she's tried it, it's been my phone hand, while I've been using my phone. So, right now, I'm really wondering if it's an attention seeking/boredom reaction. Fingers crossed it improves as we get trial and error on toys that will hold her interest.....

*checks bank statements* 

Although... we've had a bit of success with the new wand toy, it's the 'gone fishing' one from Pets at Home with three shiny blue fish on it, and apparently it's the Best Thing Ever.  She does seem to pull and chew on the pieces a lot, I've noticed.

As for food, @Chillminx - she is currently free-feeding on Whiskas dry and getting pouches twice daily. I realise some people around here have concerns about this but bear in mind, I've had her for three weeks and that's what she was having before. I did try her with 'Oh So Meaty' pouches but she wasn't eating as much of it so I'm leaving the main food situation to be investigated later when she's had time to settle. She's getting a little raw occasionally if I'm having meat at dinner. 

I tried giving her a mouse-sized piece of chicken (along with some liver) tonight and she tossed the damn thing all around my living room before she ate it! But clearly there's a need there for her more predatory instincts to be satisfied. I'll maybe try and get one of those Kong things online but I've been trying to get her to use a small cushion in the meantime. Thanks for the recommendation. 

Incidentally, I'm also having trouble getting her to scratch on anything other than my carpet and attempts to get her to use the scratching post/scratch pad/scratching box are mostly getting us both frustrated. I wonder if it could be related.


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## oracleseer (Dec 26, 2013)

It's a show of affection, cats express their feelings by biting. When your cat uses her paws to draw your fingers into her mouth, she's expressing love and comfort.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Remember cats don't know what a phone is, so when you are on the sofa chatting to someone on the phone your cat thinks you are speaking to them


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Not always though. They aren't showing love and comfort when they grab hold of you, hang on and sink their teeth in. That's prey behaviour, not love.


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

carly87 said:


> Not always though. They aren't showing love and comfort when they grab hold of you, hang on and sink their teeth in. That's prey behaviour, not love.


Spoken from your own experience, eh Carly?! . We'll never let you forget Tango's 'expression of love' will we??!!


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Nor will my plastic surgeon! Apparently I was the talk of the ward for a couple of days, especially when I showed them a picture of him upside down and cuddling his face next to mine. I'm so grateful he didn't hang on though, otherwise he'd have done some massive damage.


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## Aeth (Mar 31, 2014)

oracleseer said:


> It's a show of affection, cats express their feelings by biting. When your cat uses her paws to draw your fingers into her mouth, she's expressing love and comfort.


You know, I wondered this, but like I say she's been here for three weeks and do I love her to bits but it seems a bit early for that kind of bond to have developed from her view. Not that she doesn't spend a lot of time cuddled up to me, she's tucked under my elbow as I type! The uncomfortable type of biting definitely seems to have lessened anyway so I'll take it as it goes.

@carly87 and @jansheff... my curiosity has been piqued, what happened with Tango? It all sounds a bit dramatic!! :smile5:


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Aeth said:


> Incidentally, I'm also having trouble getting her to scratch on anything other than my carpet and attempts to get her to use the scratching post/scratch pad/scratching box are mostly getting us both frustrated. I wonder if it could be related.


Rub all the scratch posts/pads/boxes etc with powdered catnip every day. Amazon sells it in jars.

When she goes to scratch your carpet, immediately lift her up calmly and carry her to the nearest scratch post and gently paddle her paws up and down, simulating what she would do herself. Continue with this training for a couple of weeks until she learns what you want her to do.

When she starts using the posts of her own accord give her lots of praise.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

He's a very, very soppy cat who has a loathing for dryers. I was drying him after a bath and he was struggling like mad. I refused to let go of him as i knew if I did I wasn't going to get him back and he was soaking. After about half a minute of totally desperate struggling and doing everything he could to get away, he bit me. I then got a very nasty infection which was turning to cellulitis and spreading, so I had to have plastic surgery on my hand to clean out the infection and repair the damage he'd done to me.

He really is the sweetest lump though. He just got very frightened and i didn't listen to his warnings, of which there were plenty!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

carly87 said:


> He's a very, very soppy cat who has a loathing for dryers. I was drying him after a bath and he was struggling like mad. I refused to let go of him as i knew if I did I wasn't going to get him back and he was soaking. After about half a minute of totally desperate struggling and doing everything he could to get away, he bit me. I then got a very nasty infection which was turning to cellulitis and spreading, so I had to have plastic surgery on my hand to clean out the infection and repair the damage he'd done to me.
> 
> He really is the sweetest lump though. He just got very frightened and i didn't listen to his warnings, of which there were plenty!


Is he a long haired cat that needs a bath Carly? I have never tried to bathe my short haired girl! I do wipe her down with a warm wet flannel now and again but that's about it! :001_unsure:


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

He is, yes. He's a show boy too so gets bathed regularly. He doesn't mind the bath at all. It's the dryer he hates.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

carly87 said:


> It's the dryer he hates.


I guess you won't be using the dryer on him again then Carly?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

We do it in a carrier now, and I've bought a different dryer, as it was the noise that was bothering him. I've almost got to the point where he's happy to come out and sit on my knee for it, but it really is a work in progress.


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## delilah90 (Mar 1, 2014)

My Sushi does this too and I know exactly what you mean by this type of biting - sometimes he will start by licking my finger, then he'll draw my hand towards his face (claws sheathed) and chomp down, but not hard. I think he is just a 'mouthy' cat - he chews everything - doors, taps, books, ribbons in diaries (his particular favourite). I always thought it was down to teething but he's over 10 months now so it can't be that. He does attack sometimes, too, and that's a very different kind of biting - I'm not bothered by the non-aggressive chewing but I think letting him do that may also be giving the thumbs up to the definitely-aggressive biting. Not quite sure how to stop either, though, so have read the responses here with interest! Good luck with the lovely River.


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## Aeth (Mar 31, 2014)

Hello, I just thought I'd post back with an update after all the lovely replies before. 

River's biting has definitely lessened off and become a lot more based around the hands where it doesn't hurt. I've been monitoring when she does and doesn't do it, and it definitely seems to increase if there's been other people in the house, rather than relating to playtimes.

She doesn't do it while people here, but after they've left (unless it's my boyfriend staying over, in which case we do have to shut her out of the bedroom because my elbow gets chewed on....) She'll put up with new folk for a while, have a sniff, say hello, and after twenty minutes or so she'll usually tuck herself under the sofa covers, and later that evening I'll get a bit of teeth around my fingers. That's making me think it's a territorial/ownership thing, although we've been joking about her being jealous. 

Honestly, if that's the case then I'm just glad that she settled quickly, you know? But it's a lot more tolerable now


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## littlelady (May 4, 2014)

I would say it is probably an attention thing, my cat will make eye contact and then bit me when I stop stroking her (occasionally if I am not stroking her with two hands! She is demanding  ). You mentioned that she pulled your finger/hand towards her, Cookie definately does that to me when she wants me to stroke her. I am often typing with one hand on the computer and one hand stroking her to stop bites. However there are times when you don't want this behaviour and it is only early days for the both of you. So to discourage this behaviour I would suggest picking her up and putting her on the floor (after ignoring her till she stops biting, as the early post suggested, don't make this a game for her or esculate if it is aggression. Let her jump straight back up if she wants to, and repeat this everytime she bites. She will learn that biting doesn't get her the attention that she wants and she loses her comfy spot. I do this to Cookie when I am stroking her with one hand and she want me to stroke with both. She will often go off and sulk, then curl up and sleep on my lap with the occassional stroke as I work (she likes most of her cuddles when I am working).

Lots of toys are a good thing as she is still very young. If she likes chewing and destroying toys you can recycle your wand toys with cardboard shapes covered in twine (use a hole punch to add the string). This way she still has a fun chasing game which is cheap to replace.

For the scratching post you could try spraying catnip on them to encourage her to go to them. (I assume they are new scratching posts that aren't smelling of other cats?) Hopefully once they are marked with her scent she will be more likely to use them. Putting tin foil down on the carpet (if she likes a particular site) will discourage her. Although I ended up putting plastic protector along my bottom step to prevent her tearing it to sheds when I got a new carpet. Picking her up when she is scratching the carpet and put on front claws on the scratching post can work (but normally only if she will use the scratching post on her own, otherwise she may not make the link)

Good luck


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## Aeth (Mar 31, 2014)

littlelady said:


> Lots of toys are a good thing as she is still very young. If she likes chewing and destroying toys you can recycle your wand toys with cardboard shapes covered in twine (use a hole punch to add the string). This way she still has a fun chasing game which is cheap to replace.


This is a really great idea, actually! I'll definitely be doing this as soon as I can get some natural twine. She keeps pulling the stuffing or limbs or whatever off of the wand toys I've been buying 



littlelady said:


> For the scratching post you could try spraying catnip on them to encourage her to go to them. (I assume they are new scratching posts that aren't smelling of other cats?) Hopefully once they are marked with her scent she will be more likely to use them. Putting tin foil down on the carpet (if she likes a particular site) will discourage her. Although I ended up putting plastic protector along my bottom step to prevent her tearing it to sheds when I got a new carpet. Picking her up when she is scratching the carpet and put on front claws on the scratching post can work (but normally only if she will use the scratching post on her own, otherwise she may not make the link)
> 
> Good luck


She does like a particular site, which is the spot of carpet right in the livingroom doorway - not the most convenient! She was completely uninterested in the vertical posts I've tried, catnip or none, and doesn't seem naturally inclined to scratch at vertical things so I'm working on other options now. The cardboard play-box gets a lot of use, but not for scratching.

I bought this a week or two ago: Scratch and Hide Slide | Pets At Home and it seems to be having the most success so far, although no intentional *scratching* as yet. I've also asked my dad if he can get a hold of some clean wood or a branch for her to scratch, so we can hopefully see if she enjoys that too. Fingers crossed!


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## Ely01 (May 14, 2014)

Soozi said:


> say No is a deeper tone than you would normally use with her but don't shout! then put her down or away from you and leave her for a bit she might start to realise that when she bites she will be ignored! Other members on here will probably tell you to look at her diet too as food can make a difference to the way they behave!


My kitty also does practice non-aggressive biting. I realize my playing with him when he does some biting may be an incentive for him to keep biting so he gets to play.
Perhaps I could play with him when he obviously is calling (by mewing, standing between me and my screen or laying his toys on my lap) but put him down when he bites.


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