# Crossbreeding



## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Is it just me or are there alot of cross bred kittys for sale?

I am always looking at everything cat, looking at breeders websites etc and on the pets4homes website there are so many crossbreeds available!

In particular the bengals??? These cant all be accident? Is this a case of people jumping on the band wagon trying to make a quick buck?


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## jacko (Apr 16, 2008)

theres alot of cat owners and breeders accidentally raised/have a crossbreed..


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

And a hell of a lot more non accidentalwhere there is demand there will always be supply.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

There's a ridiculous number of crossbred Bengals that's for sure.

Liz


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

and siamese,persians,ragdolls,bsh,maine coones,orientals,etc etc etc


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I darent even get started on this subject, I loathe crossbreeding and people that are just out to make a quick buck from it  Not saying anymore cos I always end up rowing if I get on this one


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

I'll be honest... I do not agree with breeding cross breeds or breeding out of nowhere just to make money out of them.

People always say "there is no money in breeding", yes that could be true, if you do it correctly. But alot of selfish people don't, and the kittens suffer because of it.


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## scampsmum (Jul 20, 2008)

I dont agree with cross breeding when people charge the same (or more) as if they were 100% pedigree

I mean years ago if a breeder had an 'accident' they were sold off cheap as moggies

Its happening with dogs as well, it shouldnt be allowed


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

It's a money making ploy simple really even if the market isn't there, people will still breed them for a quick buck BECAUSE of the pedigree cat involved!
This really peeves me because not only are they filling the market with high priced moggies they are doing the exact same thing as people who let their unspayed roam and then act surprised when she gets knocked up!


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

scampsmum said:


> I dont agree with cross breeding when people charge the same (or more) as if they were 100% pedigree
> 
> I mean years ago if a breeder had an 'accident' they were sold off cheap as moggies
> 
> Its happening with dogs as well, it shouldnt be allowed





Jem85 said:


> It's a money making ploy simple really even if the market isn't there, people will still breed them for a quick buck BECAUSE of the pedigree cat involved!
> This really peeves me because not only are they filling the market with high priced moggies they are doing the exact same thing as people who let their unspayed roam and then act surprised when she gets knocked up!


Yeah, that's another thing I didn't mention.

I remember when I was searching for my first Ragdoll, I saw sooooooo many Ragdoll X's... they were charging anything between £150 and £200+
Mine are all GCCF registered and come with everything a pure pedigree cat should and I paid £350 each for mine. So how can these people charge these prices for cross breeds and not pure pedigree?

It's rediculous, they're just money grabbers. How people can do it, I will never know.

I wouldn't dream of breeding my cat just to get some cash.


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## scampsmum (Jul 20, 2008)

I suppose it has to be said that these cross breeders are pushing up the prices for real pedigree breeders yes?


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

no i dont think so


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

At the end of the day as soon as u breed to cats that are not the same breed you are wrecking the breed there are no 2 ways about it.
TRUE cats lovers would never do this but now TRUE cat lovers are suffering for it because cross breed prices are so high which makes the pedigree breeders think twice so again more people are buying crosses for what a cat that MIGHT resemble a breed?
I wonder what makes it easier the fact that cats cant stop this or the money coming in?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

i can see the point your making jem....but i look at it this way,at one time or another werent cats or dogs come to that, crossbred to get the breeds we have today? i dont know, just asking


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

why is everyone so convinced that breeders like me are motivated by money??i can assure you my cat outgoings far exceed any incomings,feed bills total in excess of £160 a month,then theres vets,flea/worm treatment,it is a passion and a love of cats that motivates me,i wouldnt work 3 cleaning jobs at 20 hours a week if my cats were bringing me money!quite the opposite i need to work to pay for them!!


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> i can see the point your making jem....but i look at it this way,at one time or another werent cats or dogs come to that, crossbred to get the breeds we have today? i dont know, just asking


I understand totally hun but I truely believe thats not happening I havn't seen ad's for a new breed of cat, there are none on the web for a new breed so therefore its down to money coming in again.
This is always going to happen i know that but if i can put 1 person off doing this then i have achieved something


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> i can see the point your making jem....but i look at it this way,at one time or another werent cats or dogs come to that, crossbred to get the breeds we have today? i dont know, just asking


At one time yes, to achieve another breed. However exactly what new breed are today's crossbreeders trying to achieve???????? Me thinks they are not


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> why is everyone so convinced that breeders like me are motivated by money??i can assure you my cat outgoings far exceed any incomings,feed bills total in excess of £160 a month,then theres vets,flea/worm treatment,it is a passion and a love of cats that motivates me,i wouldnt work 3 cleaning jobs at 20 hours a week if my cats were bringing me money!quite the opposite i need to work to pay for them!!


It is clearly not a passion for the breed u are using otherwise u just wouldn't do it!


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## englishrose943 (Feb 7, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> why is everyone so convinced that breeders like me are motivated by money??i can assure you my cat outgoings far exceed any incomings,feed bills total in excess of £160 a month,then theres vets,flea/worm treatment,it is a passion and a love of cats that motivates me,i wouldnt work 3 cleaning jobs at 20 hours a week if my cats were bringing me money!quite the opposite i need to work to pay for them!!


Very well put can i say.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

To be honest I think the reality of the situation is pretty obvious and to be honest as a ''true'' cat lover it actually sickens me. It makes me feel like I should be doing something but can I do??


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

Let's look at it from the buyer's point of view.

I want a Maine Coon - they are big cats and they are cool. I go to the pedigree sites and in particular one that comes up first in a google search. I ask the price of a kitten and get told its £600-£700.

Oh, I think, I cannot afford that! Lets google some more. What about this half Maine Coon - that IS affordable - its only £200 ish. I don't care about the pedigree - what does that mean? I am not going to breed from it and I am not going to show it. Its a pet! But I can say its a Rag Doll/Maine Coon cat! How cool is that!


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Not very cool, what is so imressive about that crossing?


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

Janee said:


> Let's look at it from the buyer's point of view.
> 
> I want a Maine Coon - they are big cats and they are cool. I go to the pedigree sites and in particular one that comes up first in a google search. I ask the price of a kitten and get told its £600-£700.
> 
> Oh, I think, I cannot afford that! Lets google some more. What about this half Maine Coon - that IS affordable - its only £200 ish. I don't care about the pedigree - what does that mean? I am not going to breed from it and I am not going to show it. Its a pet! But I can say its a Rag Doll/Maine Coon cat! How cool is that!


It is a CAT not a fashion accessory. If you wanna save some more money go toTescos and get some fake crocs. You can say look I got fake Tesco crocs to go wiv my ragdoll/ maine coon. Cool bananas.


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Kinda like buying a Skoda and sooping it up a bit


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Kinda like buying a Skoda and sooping it up a bit


uurrgghhh is that possiblesaying that they dont look as bad as they did,


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

Janee said:


> Let's look at it from the buyer's point of view.
> 
> I want a Maine Coon - they are big cats and they are cool. I go to the pedigree sites and in particular one that comes up first in a google search. I ask the price of a kitten and get told its £600-£700.
> 
> Oh, I think, I cannot afford that! Lets google some more. What about this half Maine Coon - that IS affordable - its only £200 ish. I don't care about the pedigree - what does that mean? I am not going to breed from it and I am not going to show it. Its a pet! But I can say its a Rag Doll/Maine Coon cat! How cool is that!


yer and u get wat ya payed for... a moggie..even at 200 u would be ripped off.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

But why would someone pay for a Mogie when there are so many in rescue centres?

I just dont get it!


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Janee said:


> Let's look at it from the buyer's point of view.
> 
> I want a Maine Coon - they are big cats and they are cool. I go to the pedigree sites and in particular one that comes up first in a google search. I ask the price of a kitten and get told its £600-£700.
> 
> Oh, I think, I cannot afford that! Lets google some more. What about this half Maine Coon - that IS affordable - its only £200 ish. I don't care about the pedigree - what does that mean? I am not going to breed from it and I am not going to show it. Its a pet! But I can say its a Rag Doll/Maine Coon cat! How cool is that!


A registered pedigree Maine Coon is not £600+ for a pet quality kitten. 

You are quoting probably for a kitten on the active register at that price.
Try somewhere between £300-£400, registered, vaccinated and with a genuine pedigree, so if you think you're getting a good deal on an upmarket moggy who isn't registered and definitely not vaccinated for £200+ then that's plain stupidity.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

bee112 said:


> But why would someone pay for a Mogie when there are so many in rescue centres?
> 
> I just dont get it!


because they can say it is a ragdoll/ maine coon. how cool is that?


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

hmm it's annoying because the whole point of breeding Ragdolls, Maine Coones etc is to improve the breed standards.. so mixing them is just ruining somebody elses hard work


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

i have 2 crosses.

a lovely breeder of siamese cats in wales. her seal point queen got out on their farm and had a love affair with a black moggie. the result 5 black and 1 tabby 1/2 siamese kittens.

we got them as pets as they were so cute. they cost us £25 each! 

our 2 white mogs came from a farm and also cost us £25 each.

I would pay no more than £50 for a moggie or a cross.....

My Siamese/Oris cost me £350, and £300 for one as the breeder gave me a discount as it's the 3rd cat I had had from her.


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> because they can say it is a ragdoll/ maine coon. how cool is that?


Call it what you like its still looks like a run of the mill moggy.


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## binxycat (Mar 15, 2008)

There are always ads in our local rag for x breeds particuarly Bengals - They are asking £200.00 - £250.00 for a kitten! Saying that when I bought my moggies I paid £50.00 each and the lady had some pure white (moggie) kits that she was going to charge £100 each!. The trouble is, it's all to do with supply and demand and sometimes the more money people pay the better "product" (didn't mean that in the wrong way) they think they've got - almost "snob" value??


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

OMG

You all have taken me soooooo literally.

Actually Maine coon kittens are sold at £650 - that is what I got quoted in March for a kitten from the site that comes up first in a google search. Breeder is registered. That breeder uses old american lines to get old style Maine Coons. 

Yes, I know I could get a MC kitten who has been registered with either/or TICA/GCCF for about £300-£500 as a pet. But is Jo Public going to do that research? Hobby breeders very rarely advertise the price of their kittens because they want to hear from you and check you out before letting you have a kitten.

Only one hobby breeder's website I visited gave a price. As a buyer, some people would find it quite daunting checking out a price only to find actually it might be too expensive. 

From what I am hearing cross breeders are more willing to advertise the price.

And I made that cross-breed up lol


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

binxycat said:


> The trouble is, it's all to do with supply and demand and sometimes the more money people pay the better "product" (didn't mean that in the wrong way) they think they've got - almost "snob" value??


I'd agree there.

Also what I don't get is (with both pups and kittens) why people charge for example £150 for certain colours, then £200 for a different colour? What is that all about? because the kitten/puppy is a different colour did it cost more to feed, look after and vet bills? hmm


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

And a hell of a lot more non accidentalwhere there is demand there will always be supply.
__________________
And that says it all really


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## binxycat (Mar 15, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> And a hell of a lot more non accidentalwhere there is demand there will always be supply.
> __________________
> And that says it all really


On the nail Kelly


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

IMO if you decide to breed cats or any animal for that matter you put all your time and energy into researching the breed, looking at litters and having a look at pedigree's, when your animal is old enough you then need to look at what your animal can offer the breed, is it of breed standard if not then tough u cant breed because you are not making the breed better if you breed anyway you are actually helping make the breed look worse. 
If you can breed from your animal then you find a male to compliment your girl BUT both should be able to have kittens/pups that will be of breed standard and make the breed better even if it is just your own breeding line. There are obviously a lot more things to take into account BUT the goal should always be to make the breed as a whole better!
This DOESN'T happen with cross breeds how can it? Cross breeds are nothing but that a cross breed that is unlikely to be of breed standard and may even have poor health!
All this is doing is making the two breeds involved look terrible and if the price is right then buyers will go for cross breed purely because they are cheaper than a pedigree.
BUT then this brings up another question IF you are truely in love with a breed WHY would you then go for a cheaper clearly knock off version of it?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Janee said:


> Hobby breeders very rarely advertise the price of their kittens because they want to hear from you and check you out before letting you have a kitten.
> 
> Only one hobby breeder's website I visited gave a price. As a buyer, some people would find it quite daunting checking out a price only to find actually it might be too expensive.


I agree. I always quote the price up front on principle, and also because I myself am very reluctant to call anyone (whatever the product) who won't tell me the price upfront. I figure if they are that reluctant to tell me the price, they know it's extortionate and / or I won't be able to pay it and will be embarrassed.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> I'd agree there.
> 
> Also what I don't get is (with both pups and kittens) why people charge for example £150 for certain colours, then £200 for a different colour? What is that all about? because the kitten/puppy is a different colour did it cost more to feed, look after and vet bills? hmm


It's about what you can get.

The very first litter I had (accidents) produced two balck and white kittens, two tortie and white, one grey, and one seal colourpoint! Would it have been so unreasonable to ask more for the seal colourpoint which I could have sold many times over?

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

bee112 said:


> But why would someone pay for a Mogie when there are so many in rescue centres?
> 
> I just dont get it!


Because 1. You have to pay for rescue centre moggies anyway 2. Some resuce centres are very very snooty abotu who they will allow to adopt animals and turn away perfectly good homes because of some arbitary criteria 3. Some perfectly good homes simply do not want a home inspector snooping around.

Liz


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

Unless kittens are full pedigree I do not agree or see the point in someone charging more for a certain colour. They are all kittens... they all cost the same to look after while at the "breeders" home. So why charge more. 

The only time I think it's "ok" is in pedigrees, where say a certain colour is rare or hard to get hold of. That's just my opinion.


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> Unless kittens are full pedigree I do not agree or see the point in someone charging more for a certain colour. They are all kittens... they all cost the same to look after while at the "breeders" home. So why charge more.
> 
> The only time I think it's "ok" is in pedigrees, where say a certain colour is rare or hard to get hold of. That's just my opinion.


Why do you consider it to be okay to charge more for a rare colour when it is a ped but not for a moggie?

I am not saying I agree nor disagree with what you are saying, but I do not agree with your reasons.

You have said on one hand that it does not cost anymore to raise an unusual coloured moggie vs a less rare coloured moggie (for example a ginger female), but how would it cost any more to raise an unusual coloured ped vs a less rare ped?


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## felineadorer (Jun 12, 2008)

lizward said:


> Because 1. You have to pay for rescue centre moggies anyway 2. Some resuce centres are very very snooty abotu who they will allow to adopt animals and turn away perfectly good homes because of some arbitary criteria 3. Some perfectly good homes simply do not want a home inspector snooping around.
> 
> Liz


1. Rescue centres spay/neuter before rehoming if animal is old enough, they worm , vaccinate etc , they need to charge a fee to fund this and keep the centres running.

2. Why would a perfectly good home not welcome a home check? Rescue centres have a responsibility to ensure the animals in their care are not going into a bad situation/ situation worse than where they came from.


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## Katherna (Feb 20, 2008)

> 2. Some resuce centres are very very snooty abotu who they will allow to adopt animals and turn away perfectly good homes because of some arbitary criteria .


I was refused a cat simply because of my address, was told on the phone that they wouldn't even consider me because of the street I lived on. These people didn't know me from Adam, even though I'd had cats for a long time and I didn't have one when I rang up to ask about it.

I'd have welcomed a home check, but my address was enough for them to say no. I now have 3 rescue cats and I wouldn't advise anyone locally to use the rescue I first rang to enquire about homing a cat.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

But I would rather pay a rescue centre money for a moggie cat that needs a home so that my money is going towards a charity, rather than giving money over to some greedy person purposely breeding moggie cats


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

felineadorer said:


> 1. Rescue centres spay/neuter before rehoming if animal is old enough, they worm , vaccinate etc , they need to charge a fee to fund this and keep the centres running.


Of course. But that is nevertheless a reason why people would rather go elsewhere.



> 2. Why would a perfectly good home not welcome a home check?


Personally my house is such a mess that I hate having anyone round except outside, I find it highly emabarrassing, but this mess has no effect on the welfare of the animals. That would be my reason if I were looking for a moggie. As to other people's reasons I couldn't say, paranoia might account for some perhaps ("will she come back and burgle my house later, or report me to social services because she doesn't like the way my children look?") or simply a serious aversion to people. Who knows?

Liz


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

There is a rescue centre got a stall on our flea market today and I was chatting with them earlier. She said at the moment they have 48 kittens in as well as all the adults


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

bee112 said:


> But I would rather pay a rescue centre money for a moggie cat that needs a home so that my money is going towards a charity, rather than giving money over to some greedy person purposely breeding moggie cats


Here here!! Both my 'moggies' are from the Cats Protection. They asked for a £10 donation for the two!! I gave £15.00!! 
Bargain lol


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

bee112 said:


> But I would rather pay a rescue centre money for a moggie cat that needs a home so that my money is going towards a charity, rather than giving money over to some greedy person purposely breeding moggie cats


Then do! I once had a litter of half pedigree kittens, did everything right, sold them fully vaccinated and even tested for FIV and FeLV, admittedly using an expensive vet, but I sold them for only enough to cover the vet costs, not a penny more. Still got lots of people laughing as soon as they heard the price, and one couple said "But we could get them from the RSPCA for that and the price would include neutering". Fine, so get them from the RSPCA, I'm sure the RSPCA will be glad to hear from you. Again, this is how free markets work.

Liz


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

I cant, I already have two kittens, I live in a one bedroomed flat in a built up area so I got a specific breed that would easily adapt to living happily indoors..

I have had loads of rescue Moggies in the past and they have been wonderfull cats.. just better suited to being outdoors!


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## felineadorer (Jun 12, 2008)

lizward said:


> Of course. But that is nevertheless a reason why people would rather go elsewhere.
> 
> Personally my house is such a mess that I hate having anyone round except outside, I find it highly emabarrassing, but this mess has no effect on the welfare of the animals.
> Liz


Rescue centres charge quite nominal fees - presumably people go elsewhere to get kittens free ??

I can understand this, but untidyness surely wouldn't come against you for a homecheck, rather your attitude to animals etc , where they will live etc

Liz , I do find it strange how you associate breeding moggies with "market demands", this sounds to me like it's been done to make money. I'm not getting at you personally but rescue centres both here (I'm in Ireland) and in the UK are picking up the pieces constantly of cats being bred through accidental mating, being bred or neglect.

I didn't set out to get a cat but was adopted by a stray about 2 months ago. The poor thing was terrified , not spayed, very thin and unhealthy looking. Where she came from or what happened her I have no idea.

So I really feel strongly about the importance of responsible breeding and homing.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I don't know why you find it strange, it's very basic economics. You don't have to approve of it to understand what is happening!

As for your stray, did you make a serious effort to find her owners?

Liz


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Their you have it Fa


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## felineadorer (Jun 12, 2008)

The cat didn't have a collar and wasn't chipped. 
Did I scour the neighbourhood looking for the "owner" of a flea and worm ridden, unspayed , starving female cat ? No i didn't. 

I couldn't get hold of her for the first month she was so nervous. A local rescue centre had to trap her for me to get her spayed.

She's now spayed, chipped , healthy and happy. 

And I do understand the concept of a free market. I just find it deplorable that people breed their cats according to market principles.

I really hope your cats are going to homes that you have checked ?
And that they will be spayed/ neutered when old enough?


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

felineadorer said:


> The cat didn't have a collar and wasn't chipped.
> Did I scour the neighbourhood looking for the "owner" of a flea and worm ridden, unspayed , starving female cat ? No i didn't.
> 
> I couldn't get hold of her for the first month she was so nervous. A local rescue centre had to trap her for me to get her spayed.
> ...


But people who breed for money arnt that concerned about where the kittens end up, as longs as they have the ££££ rolling in


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

felineadorer said:


> The cat didn't have a collar and wasn't chipped.
> Did I scour the neighbourhood looking for the "owner" of a flea and worm ridden, unspayed , starving female cat ? No i didn't.


Then you may have "rescued" a cat that someone was desperately looking for. There are gardeners out there these days who openly brag about removing the neighbours' cats and dumping them miles away, I have seen such claims twice on the web. Now admittedly the chances of such a cat ever being reunited with its owner are slim, but a quick search round the internet would have turned up some lost pet sites and a couple of calls might just possibly have got you in touch with some national network. I have had cats lost without trace before now, presumed stolen, and I can tell you it is not very nice not knowing what happened to them.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

felineadorer said:


> I really hope your cats are going to homes that you have checked ?
> And that they will be spayed/ neutered when old enough?


Who is this question aimed at?

Liz


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

lizward said:


> Then you may have "rescued" a cat that someone was desperately looking for. There are gardeners out there these days who openly brag about removing the neighbours' cats and dumping them miles away, I have seen such claims twice on the web. Now admittedly the chances of such a cat ever being reunited with its owner are slim, but a quick search round the internet would have turned up some lost pet sites and a couple of calls might just possibly have got you in touch with some national network. I have had cats lost without trace before now, presumed stolen, and I can tell you it is not very nice not knowing what happened to them.
> 
> Liz


Or the possible slave could have also delved into the whereabouts of their cat-should they have wanted,i remember FA story of how she became slave to her darling cat and have to say if i was her i'd have done the same thing-at the end of the day FA has been incredibly compassionate where others are not so and her darling girl now has a secure and loving home-which for whatever reason she didn't before


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## felineadorer (Jun 12, 2008)

lizward said:


> Then you may have "rescued" a cat that someone was desperately looking for. There are gardeners out there these days who openly brag about removing the neighbours' cats and dumping them miles away, I have seen such claims twice on the web. Now admittedly the chances of such a cat ever being reunited with its owner are slim, but a quick search round the internet would have turned up some lost pet sites and a couple of calls might just possibly have got you in touch with some national network. I have had cats lost without trace before now, presumed stolen, and I can tell you it is not very nice not knowing what happened to them.
> 
> Liz


I did look at lost notices on Irish websites and contacted the two rescue centres in my area, forwarded on photos of her to see if it matched any of the lost cats they had been notified of.
There is no national network of missing cats in Ireland.
There were no posters of missing cats in my area - I checked the post office/ supermarket etc.

She was in such a bad way my gut feeling was she was abandoned.

I'd hate to lose a cat too, that's why Tipsy is now chipped


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## felineadorer (Jun 12, 2008)

lizward said:


> Who is this question aimed at?
> 
> Liz


At you Liz


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## felineadorer (Jun 12, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Or the possible slave could have also delved into the whereabouts of their cat-should they have wanted,i remember FA story of how she became slave to her darling cat and have to say if i was her i'd have done the same thing-at the end of the day FA has been incredibly compassionate where others are not so and her darling girl now has a secure and loving home-which for whatever reason she didn't before


Thanks Kelly 

She's certainly very happy with her new team of slaves


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

felineadorer said:


> At you Liz


But I don't breed moggies.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Or the possible slave could have also delved into the whereabouts of their cat-should they have wanted


Not easy if you have no idea what part of the country your cat might be in!

All mine are microchipped and always will be, after an incident a few years ago where some well-meaning idiot "rescued" one of mine which was not lost at all, merely two-timing. I only found out the cat had been two-timing for months, when she turned up _spayed_ after I had been advertising her missing, and calling every organisation, for three days! Since she was the last one of a particular breeding line I was displeased to say the very least. The well-meaning idiot only lived two doors away from me and it had never even occured to me that she would not be aware that the cat was mine! Had the stupid woman thought to put a collar on her for a few days first, it would not have happened, I would have been immediately alerted to the fact that the cat was two-timing.

To be fair my cat was not thin and riddled with parasites, and was an obviously pedigree cat that would have made any sensible person think "this cat must have an owner". But I have heard plenty of tales (from rescue workers) of people who take in a cat claiming it is starving just because it actually eats food they offer it.

Liz


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

lizward said:


> Not easy if you have no idea what part of the country your cat might be in!
> 
> All mine are microchipped and always will be, after an incident a few years ago where some well-meaning idiot "rescued" one of mine which was not lost at all, merely two-timing. *I only found out the cat had been two-timing for months, when she turned up spayed after I had been advertising her missing, and calling every organisation, for three days! Since she was the last one of a particular breeding line I was displeased to say the very least.* The well-meaning idiot only lived two doors away from me and it had never even occured to me that she would not be aware that the cat was mine! Had the stupid woman thought to put a collar on her for a few days first, it would not have happened, I would have been immediately alerted to the fact that the cat was two-timing.
> 
> ...


Your cat should not have been aloud out then in all fairness


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Jem85 said:


> Your cat should not have been aloud out then in all fairness


The overwhelming majority of UK cats are allowed outside and their owners do not deserve to have them stolen just because someone thinks they are pretty.

Liz


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

lizward said:


> The overwhelming majority of UK cats are allowed outside and their owners do not deserve to have them stolen just because someone thinks they are pretty.
> 
> Liz


Im not saying that, im saying if you were breeding from your cat she shouldn't have been outside its just common sense


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## felineadorer (Jun 12, 2008)

There are lots of cats in my neighbourhood , all well fed and happy . I don't feed any of them as I know they have owners.
My poor kitty was in a bad way , that's why I started feeding her.
You can tell if a cat has been living on it's wits for a while.
I was 100% happy she didn't have an owner.

My hope was for a rescue to take her and home her , but they thought she was too feral , I wasn't out to steal the local pretty looking cat .


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

felineadorer said:


> 1. Rescue centres spay/neuter before rehoming if animal is old enough, they worm , vaccinate etc , they need to charge a fee to fund this and keep the centres running.
> 
> 2. Why would a perfectly good home not welcome a home check? Rescue centres have a responsibility to ensure the animals in their care are not going into a bad situation/ situation worse than where they came from.


I once got a kitten from a rescue home and he was covered in fleas. Over the next 3days after I got him his eyes were weeping, he went off his food, was lethargic etc and had cat flu aswel. And that was a big well known popular one I was disgusted. Think I paid about £35 at the time aswel. He wasnt neutered either and I question if he had his jabs as I never got any paperwork. They didnt do a home check either.

That was about 6years ago.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Liz did you say that you had a pedigree unspayed that you used to let out and she was going to another house for months before you found out


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

Is Liz the lady with the untidy house?


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

lizward said:


> The overwhelming majority of UK cats are allowed outside and their owners do not deserve to have them stolen just because someone thinks they are pretty.
> 
> Liz


Not Pedigrees Liz, this is the real world and they will get stolen and sold on for money unfortunately.


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> Is Liz the lady with the untidy house?


Now don't be bitchy cos I'll admit to having an untidy house too, you can't help it with a lot of cats. I do like prior notice before visitors coming, lol


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Jem85 said:


> Im not saying that, im saying if you were breeding from your cat she shouldn't have been outside its just common sense


Obviously she wasn't allowed out when she was expected to come into call! This incident happened in January and she had been on ovarid for some months.

Liz


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

lizward said:


> Obviously she wasn't allowed out when she was expected to come into call! This incident happened in January and she had been on ovarid for some months.
> 
> Liz


Im sorry but if i had a breeding girlie she WOULD NOT be aloud out


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Not Pedigrees Liz, this is the real world and they will get stolen and sold on for money unfortunately.


Well yes, I would think the majority of pedigrees (non-breeding) do go out. Unless you have statistics that say otherwise? I know lots of breeders want indoor homes but you have no hope whatsoever of enforcing that and no way of knowing whether or not the cat will be let out. Haven't you seen pedigree cats outside?

Liz


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

I would NEVER let my babies outside on their own, I care for them too much..

and I dont know any responsible people who let their pedigree cats outside unsupervised


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Me neither Ovarid or not! Can't trust Ovarid can put them off for a month or 6 months, you never know  If I let a ped out round here it would only have to roam a fair bit before some druggy got hold of it and sold it for cash


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Jem85 said:


> Im sorry but if i had a breeding girlie she WOULD NOT be aloud out


Which is fair enough of course, but mine are (except one). I live in a safe area where the only risk is theft and of course that is why my cats are all chipped.

Obviously if I bought a kitten and promised to keep it in I would do precisely that. It's actually considerably easier to control breeding in such a cat, assuming an outdoor pen for the stud, than it is to control breeding when the stud and the queens are all indoors together - I know because I have done both.

Liz


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

lizward said:


> Well yes, I would think the majority of pedigrees (non-breeding) do go out. Unless you have statistics that say otherwise? I know lots of breeders want indoor homes but you have no hope whatsoever of enforcing that and no way of knowing whether or not the cat will be let out. Haven't you seen pedigree cats outside?
> 
> Liz


Quite honestly, a big NO to that one


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

bee112 said:


> I would NEVER let my babies outside on their own, I care for them too much..
> 
> and I dont know any responsible people who let their pedigree cats outside unsupervised


There is no GCCF rule against it, you know.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> Is Liz the lady with the untidy house?


Yes. So what?


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

lizward said:


> There is no GCCF rule against it, you know.
> 
> Liz


Nobody said there was, but don't make it any the less unbelievable!


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

lizward said:


> Yes. So what?


Just wondering, thats all.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> Liz did you say that you had a pedigree unspayed that you used to let out and she was going to another house for months before you found out


That's right. Obviously she was not let out when calling, but she had had a litter that year and was on Ovarid waiting for next year. In retrospect it was rather silly of me not to have noticed because she used to return home smelling of perfume, but my cats get on very well indeed with my neighbour and I assumed it was her perfume I was smelling. It's easy to be wise after the event 

Liz


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

What perfume? Eau du Tom Catto?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Quite honestly, a big NO to that one


O I have. Apart from my own, two persians, one siamese, Burmese and two British spring to mind. They don't all live round here.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> What perfume? Eau du Tom Catto?


Some sickly splash it on chavvy perfume.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> Just wondering, thats all.


It wasn't you who took my cat was it?


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

They don't deserve peds in that case, watch this there will be loads of guests on here coming round your way now to nick all those free-roaming cats to earn a few bucks, good money for them if they think they are posh cats too!


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

lizward said:


> It wasn't you who took my cat was it?


Nah, never nicked anything in my life. As I said just wondering. End of.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Liz, I'm not that naive that I think letting a ped cat outdoors unsupervised is breaking some GCCF rule..

The reason I would not let them out is because they would end up being stolen, run over or God only knows what else..

You really are becoming very annoying and your ignorange shocks me


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Ooooooh Bee, that was a bit stroppy, lol! But I have to agree,


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Ooooooh Bee, that was a bit stroppy, lol! But I have to agree,


Some one needs to say it...


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

bee112 said:


> You really are becoming very annoying and your ignorange shocks me


 So my disagreeing with you makes me ignorant (or ignorange whatever that is!). Sorry, I hadn't realised you were the fountain of all knowledge 

Liz


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

helz said:


> Why do you consider it to be okay to charge more for a rare colour when it is a ped but not for a moggie?
> 
> I am not saying I agree nor disagree with what you are saying, but I do not agree with your reasons.
> 
> You have said on one hand that it does not cost anymore to raise an unusual coloured moggie vs a less rare coloured moggie (for example a ginger female), but how would it cost any more to raise an unusual coloured ped vs a less rare ped?


Maybe because pedigree breeders are actually doing it for the breed, and not the money... so I see it okay to charge more for a certain colour that may be hard to find in litters. After all they aren't doing it to make money, so I don't really care if they charge more for a certain colour. Yes, I do find it silly in both pedigrees and moggies, but I would prefer a breeder of pedigrees who does it for the love of the breed to charge more for colours, than some moggy "breeder" wanting extra money


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Not that you disagree, just that you are so blinkered...

This thread is boring me.. night


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

There are a couple of us on here Liz that disagree with allowing peds to free roam, so it aint just Bee, it is just such an unusual thing and I don't think a single breeder on here would agree with it, wherever you live. Soz chuck


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

lizward said:


> Well yes, I would think the majority of pedigrees (non-breeding) do go out. Unless you have statistics that say otherwise? I know lots of breeders want indoor homes but you have no hope whatsoever of enforcing that and no way of knowing whether or not the cat will be let out. Haven't you seen pedigree cats outside?
> 
> Liz


Forgive me but what proof to back your statement do you have and it's source?
I for one haven't seen pedigrees outside but know that some slaves do this,usually in a very rural and close village or the like but don't think your average joe blogg slave would allow this given a:how expensive their cat/kitten was and b:the kitt/cats breeder will have gone thru this with potential new slave and most potential new slaves honor this
Not easy if you have no idea what part of the country your cat might be in!
No it's not-but then this is a risk for any cat who's allowed to free roam

All mine are microchipped and always will be, after an incident a few years ago where some well-meaning idiot "rescued" one of mine which was not lost at all, merely two-timing. I only found out the cat had been two-timing for months, when she turned up spayed after I had been advertising her missing, and calling every organisation, for three days! Since she was the last one of a particular breeding line I was displeased to say the very least. The well-meaning idiot only lived two doors away from me and it had never even occured to me that she would not be aware that the cat was mine! Had the stupid woman thought to put a collar on her for a few days first, it would not have happened, I would have been immediately alerted to the fact that the cat was two-timing.

To be fair my cat was not thin and riddled with parasites, and was an obviously pedigree cat that would have made any sensible person think "this cat must have an owner". But I have heard plenty of tales (from rescue workers) of people who take in a cat claiming it is starving just because it actually eats food they offer it.

Liz
Reply With QuoteIf well meaning idiots never took a compassionate risk on any cat pedigree or not that they thought was abandoned-then their would be a lot more dead and maimed cats/kitts about,and to be fair unless you know a little about breeds-then no you wouldn't look at any pedigree and assume it had a slave,to most cat lovers a cat is a cat is a cat,they may think thats an unusual cat but nothing much about what breed it may be,and if the cat responds and keeps coming back-why would anyone have reason to think differently,and to be fair any sensible person might well beg the question "Why would anyone allow their pedigree cat to roam" so that kinda cuts both ways imo LizI understand how your girl being spayed would have peed you off and upset you,but surely any sensible breeder given that she had sacred lines and the last girl of that line,would have protected the cat and done everything possible to ensure this girl didn't escape or get let out


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## may (Nov 2, 2007)

Janee said:


> Let's look at it from the buyer's point of view.
> 
> I want a Maine Coon - they are big cats and they are cool. I go to the pedigree sites and in particular one that comes up first in a google search. I ask the price of a kitten and get told its £600-£700.
> 
> Oh, I think, I cannot afford that! Lets google some more. What about this half Maine Coon - that IS affordable - its only £200 ish. I don't care about the pedigree - what does that mean? I am not going to breed from it and I am not going to show it. Its a pet! But I can say its a Rag Doll/Maine Coon cat! How cool is that!


If for instance a Maine Coon was wanted and because of the price they get half Maine Coon and half Rag Doll,
they get a half breed, not a Maine Coon
so that doesnt make sense to me


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

I dunno about the ins and outs of other breeds/breeders but ours are the same whatever their color


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

what i find so ironic though is that moggies and cross breeds seem a lot more hardy and have far fewer ailments and problems than pedigree cats even though most pedigrees are given the top food top care and really pampered they have a higher percentage of problems in pregnancy and of course are much higher to insure ive got moggies crosses and pedigrees so i feel i can say this with out meaning to put any type of standard of cat down luv em all equally cats are the dogs b*****Ks


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> I dunno about the ins and outs of other breeds/breeders but ours are the same whatever their color


Well most of the pedigree breeders I've seen do the same. But when I was looking for BooBoo, Cleo and Bailey... I did see a few that charged extra for rarer colours. But the moggies constantly charged more for certain colours.

---

I'll admit I haven't bothered reading the last couple of pages. But can see from the last few posts that you are talking about letting pedigrees outside.

I for one have 2 pedigrees and one that passed away. I would NEVER and will NEVER let them outside to roam.

I also, have never seen any pedigree cats roaming the streets either... only moggies.

People who let their pedigree cats out (breeders or not) are taking a risk in my opinion. They can get stolen, and most of the time aren't street wise.

Ragdolls are known for their trusting personality, they are also very laid back... if I were to let mine out... I couldn't even bare to imagine what would happen to them.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

siamese candrika said:


> what i find so ironic though is that moggies and cross breeds seem a lot more hardy and have far fewer ailments and problems than pedigree cats even though most pedigrees are given the top food top care and really pampered they have a higher percentage of problems in pregnancy and of course are much higher to insure ive got moggies crosses and pedigrees so i feel i can say this with out meaning to put any type of standard of cat down luv em all equally cats are the dogs b*****Ks


I should imagine with all the cats you should know the answer to this already as its quite simple


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

Why do people insist on commenting on peoples spelling and grammar when they feel they are being argued/disagreed with? You don't bother doing it at any other time. 

Is it really needed? One letter wrong and you act as if someone is typing like a 4 year old. Come on people, act your age and not your shoe size as they say


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> Why do people insist on commenting on peoples spelling and grammar when they feel they are being argued/disagreed with? You don't bother doing it at any other time.
> 
> Is it really needed? One letter wrong and you act as if someone is typing like a 4 year old. Come on people, act your age and not your shoe size as they say


Is that in reference to me?


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Just read through again dont think it was - was gonna say Im not really that petty where I'd mock someones grammer . x

No offence to anyone that did!


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> Is that in reference to me?


No. I personally haven't seen you doing it lol. But Liz did and it was just silly. I find alot of people are acting very childish just lately. Yes, discuss things buy why throw silly insults, digs and picks about spelling around... why does it have to get personal.

I notice they only correct peoples spelling when they feel threatened or confronted maybe, so that's the only comeback they can make.

I don't want to start an argument about it. Just think it's rather childish.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> No. I personally haven't seen you doing it lol. But Liz did and it was just silly. I find alot of people are acting very childish just lately. Yes, discuss things buy why throw silly insults, digs and picks about spelling around... why does it have to get personal.
> 
> I notice they only correct peoples spelling when they feel threatened or confronted maybe, so that's the only comeback they can make.
> 
> I don't want to start an argument about it. Just think it's rather childish.


No hun I agree with you completely - I thought it was because I quoted to SC that she should know the answer to her own quote seems as she has so many cats etc etc. xx


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

My spealing is brillei=ndt,.................abcwxyz,kfjwosdufkwjansgkjhwekjhmn

lol,as long as we can read stuff its fine! You are not all brilliant typists like me  pmsl


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> Just read through again dont think it was - was gonna say Im not really that petty where I'd mock someones grammer . x
> 
> No offence to anyone that did!


Ooops I mean grammar 

Im only kidding before any one takes it funny. xx


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

In some cases pedigree cats are no longer safe in a cat run in your own back garden. 

A pedigree kitten stolen out of an outdoor run by a thief who had to cut into the run to get the kitten.  Thankfully breeder and kitten were reunited eventually. 

A thief posing as an would be purchaser of a pedigree kitten did a grab and run with a car waiting outside after she tricked the breeder into leaving her alone with the kitten for a moment. This thief was also traced and the breeder got her kitten back.

Now these are just two examples of the lengths that some people will go to for a pedigree cat. and these kittens had not even set foot outside their owners property.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Angeli said:


> In some cases pedigree cats are no longer safe in a cat run in your own back garden.
> 
> A pedigree kitten stolen out of an outdoor run by a thief who had to cut into the run to get the kitten.  Thankfully breeder and kitten were reunited eventually.
> 
> ...


I'm in the process of ''planning'' a run outside and I actually said to my friend tonight Im going to have to get lockable cat flap or something as I would nottrust for my cats to be able to go in the run in an evening/when im out/in bed - whatever - as I know what people are like. I just wont take ANY chances with my cats.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> My spealing is brillei=ndt,.................abcwxyz,kfjwosdufkwjansgkjhwekjhmn
> 
> lol,as long as we can read stuff its fine! You are not all brilliant typists like me  pmsl




Exactly. If it's readable what's the problem! Sometimes it's very easy to misspell things when typing on a keyboard... you put in the complete wrong letters because the buttons are next to each other or you were just simply tyoing too damn fast! See I did it there!  But I'm not going to correct it 

People make spelling mistakes all the time, even I do. It's life. We aren't all as good at remembering the way certain words are spelt (see, now there's one for me! is it spelt or spelled  ) who cares! 



cats4eva said:


> Ooops I mean grammar
> 
> Im only kidding before any one takes it funny. xx


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Angeli said:


> In some cases pedigree cats are no longer safe in a cat run in your own back garden.
> 
> A pedigree kitten stolen out of an outdoor run by a thief who had to cut into the run to get the kitten.  Thankfully breeder and kitten were reunited eventually.
> 
> ...


I have heard of the second one before A, and that is one that has stuck in my mind, so since that one I always try and get another family member up here when people are inside wanting to buy a kit, it would be so easy for them otherwise. Outside pens I don't have, but have heard of breeders having camera's set on them and inside house too, with baseball bats at the ready. I would have too in their circumstances!  bring it on


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

Angeli said:


> In some cases pedigree cats are no longer safe in a cat run in your own back garden.
> 
> A pedigree kitten stolen out of an outdoor run by a thief who had to cut into the run to get the kitten.  Thankfully breeder and kitten were reunited eventually.
> 
> ...


Well if these sick people are willing to go to these lengths to steal pedigree cats and they aren't even allowed to roam... it says it all really doesn't it.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> Well if these sick people are willing to go to these lengths to steal pedigree cats and they aren't even allowed to roam... it says it all really doesn't it.


Well to be honest...yes it does! x


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

I know people that let their pedigree cats outdoors!


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Oh don't start Alan, where do you live, LaLa land. Round here they would nick them for drugs or drink money. Get in the real world lad!  btw I luv our little disagreements, pmsl, bring it on!


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Notice you don't show your location on the website, hee hee!


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

In this hot weather does it mean you cant have windows open incase your cat gets out? (just wondering,,,,)


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Oh don't start Alan, where do you live, LaLa land. Round here they would nick them for drugs or drink money. Get in the real world lad!  btw I luv our little disagreements, pmsl, bring it on!


I don't know anyone that does round here, I don't even know anyone round here that owns pedigree cats. It wouldn't matter if you kept them inside here they'd still be nicked!


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> In this hot weather does it mean you cant have windows open incase your cat gets out? (just wondering,,,,)


LOL I'm with you - Depends on what type of windows you have etc but I can only have one open as thats the only one that is cat safe! All the other stay shut. xx


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> In this hot weather does it mean you cant have windows open incase your cat gets out? (just wondering,,,,)


My cats decided to jump out the upstairs windows this evening! Why they didn't just use the stairs and go out the pet flap I don't know!


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

LOL My cats come in and out the front room windows, makes me jump out of my skin. Then the kids spot them and shout their names out at the top of their voices LOL


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

So.......Crossbreeding.

Same as dogs only reason for it is to make a quick buck. If you're that desperate for cash get on the street corner and abuse yourself not your animals.


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> In this hot weather does it mean you cant have windows open incase your cat gets out? (just wondering,,,,)


You can get mesh covers and stuff to put over them, although up North it doesnt stay hot for long


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> I don't know anyone that does round here, I don't even know anyone round here that owns pedigree cats. It wouldn't matter if you kept them inside here they'd still be nicked!


Oh bless lad, you want to move to a nice bit of the uk, like Lancashire for example! C.x.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> But Liz did and it was just silly.
> 
> 
> > I don't normally, but ignorange just seemed to good to let slip, it's the "orange" bit that amused me, that's all.
> ...


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Angeli said:


> In some cases pedigree cats are no longer safe in a cat run in your own back garden.
> 
> A pedigree kitten stolen out of an outdoor run by a thief who had to cut into the run to get the kitten.  Thankfully breeder and kitten were reunited eventually.
> 
> ...


Quite - there is always a risk. And if they are in the house and they can't get out then there is a risk of losing the whole lot if you have a fire. Life involves risk.

Liz


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

lizward said:


> Quite - there is always a risk. And if they are in the house and they can't get out then there is a risk of losing the whole lot if you have a fire. Life involves risk.
> 
> Liz


Yes I agree however are the odds on danger really comparable??

How many cats get nicked, hit by cars,injured etc every day compared to ones that would die in a fire..ie:indoor cats?


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2008)

Well what about the dogs and other pets that "can't get out"... it could be endless if you were to see it like that 

I know, if I was to let my pedigree cats out I would never see them again. Too many skanky theives about and the busy road I live on (it's a country road, but loads of cars use it for short cuts)... need I say anymore. There's more risk of them dying outside than in due to a fire.

Each to their own. But most pedigree cat owners I know, do not let their cats outside.

We've all got our opinions and this could go on forever !


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> Maybe because pedigree breeders are actually doing it for the breed, and not the money... so I see it okay to charge more for a certain colour that may be hard to find in litters. After all they aren't doing it to make money, so I don't really care if they charge more for a certain colour. Yes, I do find it silly in both pedigrees and moggies, but I would prefer a breeder of pedigrees who does it for the love of the breed to charge more for colours, than some moggy "breeder" wanting extra money


Okay I can sort of see what you are saying, but it then poses another question for me (sorry), If a ped breeder is not doing it for the money, then why would they stagger their prices at all? Surely they would just work out what it cost them to breed the cat (or work out some sort of average) and then they would charge the same amount for each cat with no matter of sex, colour, or even if the new owner want one registered for breeding, would still make no difference to the price of the cat.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> Yes I agree however are the odds on danger really comparable??
> 
> How many cats get nicked, hit by cars,injured etc every day compared to ones that would die in a fire..ie:indoor cats?


I don't know, probably as you say the odds of losing them in a fire are much lower. However if you have a fire you lose the whole lot if they can't get out. I know of two cases where it has happened.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> Well what about the dogs and other pets that "can't get out"... it could be endless if you were to see it like that


O yes, that's true. With dogs of course if you let them out unaccompanied these days they are going to end up at the dog warden's, at best, and land you with a lawsuit at worst. But dogs do go out on leads (except these toy ones whose owners seem to regard them as child substitutes and never let them walk anywhere)



> know, if I was to let my pedigree cats out I would never see them again. Too many skanky theives about and the busy road I live on (it's a country road, but loads of cars use it for short cuts)... need I say anymore. There's more risk of them dying outside than in due to a fire.


And I live in a safe area, and that's the difference. Before moving here, I lived on a smallholding accessed by a 1/4 mile farm track. The nearest neighbours were two fields away. Was I supposed to keep my cats cooped up even living there? They get much less stressed with more space and there are fewer behavioural problems as a result. Everything depends on where you live. Obviously if I lived on a main road, or in an area that was cosntantly roamed by feral youth, that would be a different matter entirely.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

helz said:


> Okay I can sort of see what you are saying, but it then poses another question for me (sorry), If a ped breeder is not doing it for the money, then why would they stagger their prices at all? Surely they would just work out what it cost them to breed the cat (or work out some sort of average) and then they would charge the same amount for each cat with no matter of sex, colour, or even if the new owner want one registered for breeding, would still make no difference to the price of the cat.


Quite. This thing of charging more for a cat on the active register is quite new I think, it wasn't the norm when I was breeding before, not for females.

If the very same kitten costs £400 on the active or £250 on the non-active then the breeder is simply charging £150 for the kitten being on the active register, there's no other way of looking at it. A valid reason for doing that would be to put off those who want "just one litter" as the cost of that "just one litter" is increased. But the inevitable consequence of that is that if the buyer wants that "just one litter" anyway, she will simply use an unregistered male if she can find one (of any available breed) or simply let the cat out the door for a litter of half pedigrees.

Obviously you can prevent this by early neutering if you want to do that and your vet agrees, but personally I'd rather let the females go on the active register, that way if someone wants "just one litter" they have a strong incentive to make it a registered pedigree litter.

Anyone who might be getting the impression that I am trying to turn the clock back to the way things were 20 years ago, is absoltuely correct 

Liz


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2008)

I never let my"pedigree" cats out,thats my choice,once again someone shouldnt be slated for having a different opinion,at the end of the day its their cats and their choice.i also wouldnt sell to anyone that didnt understand or agree to the concept of keeping a cat indoors,not because i dont agree with their free choice but because the kittens are mine


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2008)

this will allways be an argument everyone lives diferent lifestyles .................. i live in a place i can only describe as chavsville where 99% of dogs are staffys . i have a staffy a £600 kc registered bitch who is stunning as staffs go now if i was to mate her with a decent kc stud dog her pups would be the real macoy and worth anything from £500~£1000 but here i wouldnt be able to sell 1 for £200 even though they would have good pedigrees be inoculated etc etc people just want a staf for £150 and people are selling them for this here they just arent interested in it having pedigree standards also i guess most people dont have £300~£500 to spend on a pedigree cat which is a shame but thats the truth of the matter . i expect if the prices were a bit closer then it would encourage people to buy pedigree


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2008)

helz said:


> Okay I can sort of see what you are saying, but it then poses another question for me (sorry), If a ped breeder is not doing it for the money, then why would they stagger their prices at all? Surely they would just work out what it cost them to breed the cat (or work out some sort of average) and then they would charge the same amount for each cat with no matter of sex, colour, or even if the new owner want one registered for breeding, would still make no difference to the price of the cat.


You have a very valid point there. 
Maybe I have been thinking mose pedigree breeders only do it for the breed... when with what you're saying, I can see now that adding that bit extra could be due to wanting that extra bit of cash. I totally see what you're saying.



lizward said:


> O yes, that's true. With dogs of course if you let them out unaccompanied these days they are going to end up at the dog warden's, at best, and land you with a lawsuit at worst. But dogs do go out on leads (except these toy ones whose owners seem to regard them as child substitutes and never let them walk anywhere)
> 
> And I live in a safe area, and that's the difference. Before moving here, I lived on a smallholding accessed by a 1/4 mile farm track. The nearest neighbours were two fields away. Was I supposed to keep my cats cooped up even living there? They get much less stressed with more space and there are fewer behavioural problems as a result. Everything depends on where you live. Obviously if I lived on a main road, or in an area that was cosntantly roamed by feral youth, that would be a different matter entirely.
> 
> Liz


Can I just say, I have a toy breed and she will be going for walks!  not massive walks as she is only small lol. I do treat my pets like my children... and Foxy may be small and cute, but she is still a dog and is treated like one too. She isn't going to get away with being a lazy mutt being carried around everywhere, she is going to have to do some walking!

It's not too bad where I live as I live just on the outskirts of my town. My road is basically the last road in my town, so there are no houses opposite me... just fields. But the roads behind my house... there are some people I wouldn't want to know (if you get what I mean) you get them everywhere. It also doesn't really matter where you live, whether it's a well respected area or not... any kind of person can be a thief. After all, how hard is it to pick up a roaming pedigree cat? It's not as if you're going into a shop with a knife demanding cash. So anyone could easily take a cat... even the most respected type of person, cause it's easy.

A safe area could mean one thing to someone and another to someone else. My area is fine, there are no break ins, no cars get stolen, no cars get trashed, no youths come down our street as it's an elderly street, no one gets mugged etc etc, but I still would not let my cats out... because like I said, anyone can be a thief and it doesn't take much to pick up a cat and take it.

You just have to be so careful these days. You cannot trust anyone.

The main reason I wouldn't let my cats out is because of the road outside my house and them getting into danger. The thieves, yes I would be worried... but there would probably be more chance of them getting run over or hurt where I live than stolen.

So what do people think about moggies being kept indoors?


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

siamese candrika said:


> this will allways be an argument everyone lives diferent lifestyles .................. i live in a place i can only describe as chavsville where 99% of dogs are staffys . i have a staffy a £600 kc registered bitch who is stunning as staffs go now if i was to mate her with a decent kc stud dog her pups would be the real macoy and worth anything from £500~£1000 but here i wouldnt be able to sell 1 for £200 even though they would have good pedigrees be inoculated etc etc people just want a staf for £150 and people are selling them for this here they just arent interested in it having pedigree standards also i guess most people dont have £300~£500 to spend on a pedigree cat which is a shame but thats the truth of the matter . i expect if the prices were a bit closer then it would encourage people to buy pedigree


That depends what you are breeding pedigree cats for!
In my case it's to further improve on the breed standard of a sought after line that I was lucky to inherit from a top breeder, and to prove that by exhibiting them. Im certainly not interested in providing poor quality cheap pedigree cats to add to an already growing problem of certain pedigree breeds being destroyed because they are easily available to everyone and anyone. The Staffy is a prime example of this in the dog world.

There are a lot more discerning buyers out there than you give them credit for. Not everyone wants a poorly bred pedigree cat despite the price difference. The serious buyers will have done their research and they know 
what they want.


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2008)

Each to their own but my two moggies are allowed out. We live in a rural area and as I said before I love seeing my cats out and about enjoying the fresh air. They are territorial and I could probably draw a line as to how far they will venture. They are also creatures of habit and know when their meal times are. They are always in at night time and when the sun is in they tend to be indoors anyway. They are fair weather cats !! LOL

I just could not imagine my cats not having their current lifestyle. I would go nuts if I was indoors all day and I think my cats would.

We did have a long haired burmese cat that lived to the ripe old age of 19. She was allowed out aswell. Yes there is a risk of being pinched but I think sometimes you have to weigh up the risks and benefits. 

Also thieves will strike anywhere - infact they are more likely to strike where the pickings are better - such as the 'posher' neighbourhoods.

 (just my opinion and own situation)


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## TiffanyLouise (Jul 23, 2008)

So what do people think about moggies being kept indoors?


Well Kay to be honest i used to be dead against it (as cats are natural roamers)but a lot depends on where you live and how dangerous it is

Also given the price of pedigree cats today i would have to say i have changed my view and would now say yes keep them in


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2008)

Angeli said:


> That depends what you are breeding pedigree cats for!
> In my case it's to further improve on the breed standard of a sought after line that I was lucky to inherit from a top breeder, and to prove that by exhibiting them. Im certainly not interested in providing poor quality cheap pedigree cats to add to an already growing problem of certain pedigree breeds being destroyed because they are easily available to everyone and anyone. The Staffy is a prime example of this in the dog world.
> 
> There are a lot more discerning buyers out there than you give them credit for. Not everyone wants a poorly bred pedigree cat despite the price difference. The serious buyers will have done their research and they know
> what they want.


i think you are right , to breed to improve a breed is good , but like i said with my staffy id breed her with the best but i may as well have her neutered as where i am no one wants the best which is unfourtunate im not really interested in the money side i would just love to be able to bred a cat that just knocks a show dead though


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

siamese candrika said:


> i think you are right , to breed to improve a breed is good , but like i said with my staffy id breed her with the best but i may as well have her neutered as where i am no one wants the best which is unfourtunate im not really interested in the money side i would just love to be able to bred a cat that just knocks a show dead though


I don't understand this reasoning about the dog. (I admit here and now I know nothing about dogs at all).

If you breed with a top stud and could sell for £0.5-£1k then why not do it it and advertise via your own website? Serious buyers would travel to get the pups, surely? Just as they do for a ped cat they want.....


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Angeli said:


> That depends what you are breeding pedigree cats for!
> In my case it's to further improve on the breed standard of a sought after line that I was lucky to inherit from a top breeder.


In that case - and without wishing to stir up another hornet's nest - why do you make it clear on your website that all your kittens are sold non-active? Why not encourage breeders to buy well bred kittens so there are good ones being bred from to imrpove the breed?

I will say, you do have some utterly gorgeous chinnies.

Liz


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

lizward said:


> In that case - and without wishing to stir up another hornet's nest - why do you make it clear on your website that all your kittens are sold non-active? Why not encourage breeders to buy well bred kittens so there are good ones being bred from to imrpove the breed?
> 
> I will say, you do have some utterly gorgeous chinnies.
> 
> Liz


To be honest Im not comfortable with selling a kitten on active to someone that I don't know well. I need to be sure that they also believe in good breeding practices and that they would take good care of my kitten and not discard her when she has served her purpose.

If I can find another breeder out there that I know well and can trust, then I am all too happy to work with them.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

I am with Angeli on this one - Im not saying it is the correct way of thinking but all my lines are only going to be sold as pet or show. x


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> I am with Angeli on this one - Im not saying it is the correct way of thinking but all my lines are only going to be sold as pet or show. x


I've always been delighted when someone wants one of mine for breeding. That said, it honestly isn't common. As far as I know, only five kittens I've sold have ever been bred from. And I don't know of any of those lines that are still going.

Liz


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Angeli said:


> To be honest Im not comfortable with selling a kitten on active to someone that I don't know well. I need to be sure that they also believe in good breeding practices and that they would take good care of my kitten and not discard her when she has served her purpose.
> 
> If I can find another breeder out there that I know well and can trust, then I am all too happy to work with them.


I agree totally on this.

Especially in my case where i am not experienced enough myself to judge whether someone is good enough to be a breeder.
Maybe with a few more years experience like you Liz, then I would sell on the active.
If a serious breeder asked for a kitt for breeding then I would discuss it with my mentor so that she could help me make the decision


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

lizward said:


> I've always been delighted when someone wants one of mine for breeding. That said, it honestly isn't common. As far as I know, only five kittens I've sold have ever been bred from. And I don't know of any of those lines that are still going.
> 
> Liz


I suppose I'm quite fortunate as I have the burnthwaites lines which have a good reputation. I'm not going to be one that has a mentor then goes off on ones own Im hoping to establish the type more with them and alongside them. x


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

With my own particular breed it is extremely difficult to get a queen or stud boy from any breeder here unless they know you very well.
When I started I had to go to Ireland to get my foundation stud.


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I was very lucky and found another breeder who lived only about 6-7 miles away and she was a real star. Even showed me how to bath and blow dry the kit and came with me to our first show. Could never thank her enough as she really gave me my first foot on the ladder.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> I was very lucky and found another breeder who lived only about 6-7 miles away and she was a real star. Even showed me how to bath and blow dry the kit and came with me to our first show. Could never thank her enough as she really gave me my first foot on the ladder.


See thats really nice - You hear so many tales on the inside about how breeders can be funny so thats lovely to hear. x


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> I was very lucky and found another breeder who lived only about 6-7 miles away and she was a real star. Even showed me how to bath and blow dry the kit and came with me to our first show. Could never thank her enough as she really gave me my first foot on the ladder.


I think anyone who is truely serious about breeding and not just doing it for the money but to better their own lines needs someone like you have hun xx


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> I was very lucky and found another breeder who lived only about 6-7 miles away and she was a real star. Even showed me how to bath and blow dry the kit and came with me to our first show. Could never thank her enough as she really gave me my first foot on the ladder.


Are the kittys ok when you blow dry them? Sounds really cute but can't imagine it lol.


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Cor yeah! Victor needs a bum bath about every three days so he is well used to it and having the hairdryer already at 8 weeks. With being longhaired the poo sticks to them like cowpats and I dont want to trim it back round his bum as that will spoil his coat. I blow dry it outwards to keep it away put somehow kits still manage to get some stuck  He's had one today in fact and now looks all fluffy and clean.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Cor yeah! Victor needs a bum bath about every three days so he is well used to it and having the hairdryer already at 8 weeks. With being longhaired the poo sticks to them like cowpats and I dont want to trim it back round his bum as that will spoil his coat. I blow dry it outwards to keep it away put somehow kits still manage to get some stuck  He's had one today in fact and now looks all fluffy and clean.


LOL If I put a hairdryer near any of mine they'd run!


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Very fast aswel haha


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> LOL If I put a hairdryer near any of mine they'd run!


Yeah some of mine are a bit savage, especially nortie torties, lol, got the scars to prove it


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Cor yeah! Victor needs a bum bath about every three days so he is well used to it and having the hairdryer already at 8 weeks. With being longhaired the poo sticks to them like cowpats and I dont want to trim it back round his bum as that will spoil his coat. I blow dry it outwards to keep it away put somehow kits still manage to get some stuck  He's had one today in fact and now looks all fluffy and clean.


On a more serious not that's alot of work per kitty cat isn't it? How often do you bathe them etc and how many have you got? x


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Oh dear, we've gone a bit off topic havent we  Still this is better than the crossbreeding topic, lol


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Oh dear, we've gone a bit off topic havent we  Still this is better than the crossbreeding topic, lol


Better than blooming tiffing lol had enough of that! xxx


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

cats4eva said:


> On a more serious not that's alot of work per kitty cat isn't it? How often do you bathe them etc and how many have you got? x


No its just odd ones that need a bath in particular kits. Also cats being got ready for shows need a few leading up to the show, you cant just leave it until the night before  I've got 15 and 2 kits at the mo, not a lot compared to some other breeders


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Hee hee, started a new thread for gassing on


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> No its just odd ones that need a bath in particular kits. Also cats being got ready for shows need a few leading up to the show, you cant just leave it until the night before  I've got 15 and 2 kits at the mo, not a lot compared to some other breeders


Yes but I think that all the work involved in your kits doesnt apply to every breed? And that is still a hard job bathing a cat! I seen some dry cat shampoo/conditioner that you just spray on the cats other day on zooplus - Do you have to use a special type?


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Come on to new thread Tracey......................


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Chrissy invest in a Metro type dryer, it cuts drying time down by half. I think its a must for Persian exhibitors and I couldn't do without mine.

Dont know about you but Ive got a massive grooming box with allsorts of gear, so much I could actually open as a grooming business.


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Come on to new thread Tracey......................


Im there


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## cats4eva (Mar 21, 2008)

Angeli said:


> Chrissy invest in a Metro type dryer, it cuts drying time down by half. I think its a must for Persian exhibitors and I couldn't do without mine.
> 
> Dont know about you but Ive got a massive grooming box with allsorts of gear, so much I could actually open as a grooming business.


Come over to new thread Angeli lol


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Angeli said:


> Chrissy invest in a Metro type dryer, it cuts drying time down by half. I think its a must for Persian exhibitors and I couldn't do without mine.
> 
> Dont know about you but Ive got a massive grooming box with allsorts of gear, so much I could actually open as a grooming business.


Box????? Angelina I have got two cupboards and a drawerful


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> With being longhaired the poo sticks to them like cowpats


O yes doesn't it! One of the delights of the breed 

Liz


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

bee112 said:


> But why would someone pay for a Mogie when there are so many in rescue centres?
> 
> I just dont get it!


I wanted a cat as most of you are aware, I was prepared to go to a rescue centre, not having a cat-flap would have been easy to resolve. Living more than 150 yards away from a main road was something I couldn't resolve.

The kittens I have today are the only ones I have paid for they were £35 each because a home couldn't be found for Sweep he cost me £10. I knew exactly what I was buying.

At the moment crossbreeds are popluar which I think started with the labradoodle, the breed has a specific purpose but crossbreeding has become fashionable, provided you can say its a benmaine or whatever.

I don't think people are looking at crossbreeds as a cheap alternative to a pedigree they are looking for a fashionable name, a separate breed altogether and breeders are supplying the demand.

Sue


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

What like a Percoone or a Siadoll  Don't think it will hit it off somehow


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Why not? Burmilla did 

Liz


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