# curious - calling those who have bred hamsters



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ive read that a hamster wont get pregnant in winter, is this true?

if youve had hams that have had litters when have they had them?

ive had two hams have litters, one in may and one in august


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> ive read that a hamster wont get pregnant in winter, is this true?
> No they will breed through the year if allowed to.
> 
> if youve had hams that have had litters when have they had them?
> ...


Just to add I didn't breed Zena, she was pregnant when she arrived but as I could answer the questions I did :lol:

I was really hoping you would have sorted your enclosures so that you could rescue


----------



## K1nS (Feb 8, 2010)

I have been thinking about breeding hams also recently, not to make money but as a hobby so to speak, and also I LOVE having baby animals around haha... how long can you keep the babies with their mum? Its syrian hams im interested in and I know they don't like to live with other hams, but is there an acception to their babies or do you need to separate them after a certain time?


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

K1nS said:


> I have been thinking about breeding hams also recently, not to make money but as a hobby so to speak, and also I LOVE having baby animals around haha... how long can you keep the babies with their mum? Its syrian hams im interested in and I know they don't like to live with other hams, but is there an acception to their babies or do you need to separate them after a certain time?


i took the boys away from mum ham after 4 weeks, girls at 6 weeks


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> Just to add I didn't breed Zena, she was pregnant when she arrived but as I could answer the questions I did :lol:
> 
> I was really hoping you would have sorted your enclosures so that you could rescue


she wont let me rescue unless i get a new cage for each ham, i dont want to throw away perfectly good cages


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

K1nS said:


> I have been thinking about breeding hams also recently, not to make money but as a hobby so to speak, and also I LOVE having baby animals around haha... how long can you keep the babies with their mum? Its syrian hams im interested in and I know they don't like to live with other hams, but is there an acception to their babies or do you need to separate them after a certain time?


4 weeks the boys need to be separated and 6 weeks for them to be split into individual cages, there is no exception to the rule all syrians need to live solitary.



tinktinktinkerbell said:


> she wont let me rescue unless i get a new cage for each ham, i dont want to throw away perfectly good cages


She isn't the only rescue out there ya know  And you don't have to throw out cages, just get suitable cages for the species


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> She isn't the only rescue out there ya know  And you don't have to throw out cages, just get suitable cages for the species


those cages would be sat unused though when they are perfectly well

and shes about as close as i can get, there arent many rescues in my area, the one i spoke too was quite far away as it is


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> those cages would be sat unused though when they are perfectly well
> 
> and shes about as close as i can get, there arent many rescues in my area, the one i spoke too was quite far away as it is


You can sell them? They don't have to be unused  In fact other rescues probably wouldn't expect you to change your existing cages unless they really are unsuitable :confused1:

Many small animal rescues will organise an animal run to get the fluffs to you if you are suitable, I've had 4 animals come to me from a rescue that was 3 hours drive away because there are many people that are willing to help to get an animal into a forever home


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> You can sell them? They don't have to be unused  In fact other rescues probably wouldn't expect you to change your existing cages unless they really are unsuitable :confused1:
> 
> Many small animal rescues will organise an animal run to get the fluffs to you if you are suitable, I've had 4 animals come to me from a rescue that was 3 hours drive away because there are many people that are willing to help to get an animal into a forever home


oh dontttttt, you make me want to do it

but i want babies too


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> *oh dontttttt, you make me want to do it*
> 
> but i want babies too


That's the plan 

Rescuing is far more worthwhile than breeding IMO, yes babies are cute but there are plenty of baby hamsters needing homes in rescue


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> That's the plan
> 
> Rescuing is far more worthwhile than breeding IMO, yes babies are cute but there are plenty of baby hamsters needing homes in rescue


not very young babies though

oh i would love to do both tbh


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> not very young babies though
> 
> oh i would love to do both tbh


I doubt rescues will rehome to you if you breed, I know I wouldn't :confused1:
You're right you won't get young pups, but 12 weeks is young enough and you will be giving a fluff a second chance, which IMO is much more worthwhile.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> I doubt rescues will rehome to you if you breed, I know I wouldn't :confused1:
> You're right you won't get young pups, but 12 weeks is young enough and you will be giving a fluff a second chance, which IMO is much more worthwhile.


dont get me wrong i see what you mean, ive rescued before and slingshot was the loveliest ham ive known, he was so shy when he came to us but after a few weeks he had us wrapped around his teeny paws and was so mischievous!

BUT

the two times a ham has had litters that was sooooo good! watching them grow and develop, get their own little personalities etc


----------



## K1nS (Feb 8, 2010)

I wish I could find a local hammie rescue, id love to take in another syrian or even a pair of dwarfs


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> she wont let me rescue unless i get a new cage for each ham, i dont want to throw away perfectly good cages


Do you mind me asking what size your cages are for your hams and mice? The capacity (i.e. no of litres a bin holds) doesn't let you know the actual floorspace. I know you let your animals out every evening for hours at a time but big enclosures with lots of floor space mean that the animals can have loads of fun running around for the hours during the night when no one is with them (I worked out that one day in a mouses life is the equivalent to around 2 months of a human year, so even 2 hours in a cage can seem like weeks to a mouse.) Your existing cages can always be added on to any new cages to make ham and meece mansions - I found Ikea really good for big boxes. The large Samla one cost me £22 and it's the same size as the big hamster heaven cage  It's also something to consider if you do decide to breed as given the number of babies you could potentially end up keeping you may not be able to give each animal the same amount of free ranging time as before if you ended up keeping several litters worth of babies.

Have you decided if it is your mice or your hamsters you are going to breed? You only posted about breeding mice last week. It might be better for you to decide on one, learn all the genetics and good breeding practices of that species before taking on the challenges of breeding both at the same time when you have so much to learn - especially as breeding both at the same time would mean a lot more cages of a decent size and a lot more animals that you could end up keeping on top of having to learn all the genetics and inheritable problems that you need to avoid breeding.

To add - I don't know any rescue that would let you take an animal if you were breeding. And if a rescue did let some one who breeds take a rescue in, I have to admit I'd avoid them with a barge pole, I wouldn't want to go to a rescue knowing they would let a breeder take in an animal and it could be used for breeding (as I very much doubt they would be honest about their intentions of doing it either. )


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

You seem to be making excuses to validate breeding 
I'll leave it at that...


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

zany_toon said:


> Do you mind me asking what size your cages are for your hams and mice? The capacity (i.e. no of litres a bin holds) doesn't let you know the actual floorspace. I know you let your animals out every evening for hours at a time but big enclosures with lots of floor space mean that the animals can have loads of fun running around for the hours during the night when no one is with them (I worked out that one day in a mouses life is the equivalent to around 2 months of a human year, so even 2 hours in a cage can seem like weeks to a mouse.) Your existing cages can always be added on to any new cages to make ham and meece mansions - I found Ikea really good for big boxes. The large Samla one cost me £22 and it's the same size as the big hamster heaven cage  It's also something to consider if you do decide to breed as given the number of babies you could potentially end up keeping you may not be able to give each animal the same amount of free ranging time as before if you ended up keeping several litters worth of babies.
> 
> Have you decided if it is your mice or your hamsters you are going to breed? You only posted about breeding mice last week. It might be better for you to decide on one, learn all the genetics and good breeding practices of that species before taking on the challenges of breeding both at the same time when you have so much to learn - especially as breeding both at the same time would mean a lot more cages of a decent size and a lot more animals that you could end up keeping on top of having to learn all the genetics and inheritable problems that you need to avoid breeding.
> 
> To add - I don't know any rescue that would let you take an animal if you were breeding. And if a rescue did let some one who breeds take a rescue in, I have to admit I'd avoid them with a barge pole, I wouldn't want to go to a rescue knowing they would let a breeder take in an animal and it could be used for breeding (as I very much doubt they would be honest about their intentions of doing it either. )


these are the cages



















another is in a rotastak and leonard is in a bin with a habitrail ovo

i will breed the hamsters as i know a lot about hamster breeding


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

Sorry, but in my opinion those cages aren't big enough  The smallest cage a single male mouse should be in is a cambridge which is 2 foot by 1 so you would need something bigger for your group of mice. Syrians need a minimum of 80cm because they are so active, especially at night. Is the wagg food for the hams and the mice? It isn't suitable for either. Wagg food doesn't meet the nutritional requirements for any rodent  THey are definitely things that you would need to look into changing if you were to decide to breed any animal - some breeders use smaller breeding cages to make it easier to handle the babies, but at other times the animals have nice big cages to run around in. And if the diet isn't a good one and doesn't have everything that the animal needs then it can have pretty big detrimental and serious effects on both the mum and the babies.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

zany_toon said:


> Sorry, but in my opinion those cages aren't big enough  The smallest cage a single male mouse should be in is a cambridge which is 2 foot by 1 so you would need something bigger for your group of mice. Syrians need a minimum of 80cm because they are so active, especially at night. Is the wagg food for the hams and the mice? It isn't suitable for either. Wagg food doesn't meet the nutritional requirements for any rodent  THey are definitely things that you would need to look into changing if you were to decide to breed any animal - some breeders use smaller breeding cages to make it easier to handle the babies, but at other times the animals have nice big cages to run around in. And if the diet isn't a good one and doesn't have everything that the animal needs then it can have pretty big detrimental and serious effects on both the mum and the babies.


all the hamsters use the cages for are sleep, eating and peeing, when they are awake they are out (we are awake all during the night)

the wagg food is for the mice but they get harry hamster as well, the hams get harry hamster and a mix from the local pet shop, they also get other things added to their diet

i am going to buy these

ASDA 110 Litre Plastic Storage Box and Lid - Clear | Plastic Storage | ASDA direct


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i will breed the hamsters as i know a lot about hamster breeding


Shame you don't know enough about suitable cage sizes.....

That's it I will say no more, my time is better spent elsewhere :mad2:


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> Shame you don't know enough about suitable cage sizes.....
> 
> That's it I will say no more, my time is better spent elsewhere :mad2:


look i didnt come on here for a lecture


----------



## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

In all honesty i can see why the rescue didn't re-home to you and advised you to get better cages for all your animals. It doesn't matter how little time they spend in there, they need to have a good amount of space to play as they can't be out the cage the whole time they are awake. 

Breeding is far from easy and isn't all 'ooh cute hamsters' it's a lot of hard work and you need to put in a ton of time and effort and possibly money. You need to take into fact that if you couldn't re-home them you would need decent sized cages for all of them as you couldn't have them all out 24/7. What if there is complications with the babies or the mother do you have all the funds to pay for vet bills. Do you have the time to hand rear each baby if the mother doesn't accept them? Breeding is not something to be taken lightly and takes a hell of a lot of work. You need to be able to have money for vets, extra food, extra bedding and extra everything really.

I breed chipmunks and it's not easy and i really researched it, they have amazing housing, from great breeders and i have the time and money for them but when my mouse had an accidental litter i was petrified as i was not ready for it and they are just so much smaller and i was worried sick. 

The others have tried giving you some brilliant advice.


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> all the hamsters use the cages for are sleep, eating and peeing, when they are awake they are out (we are awake all during the night)
> 
> the wagg food is for the mice but they get harry hamster as well, the hams get harry hamster and a mix from the local pet shop, they also get other things added to their diet
> 
> ...


That box is far better so you would need that for your hams and your mice with the size of the group you have  And if you do still intend on breeding you will need something that size for every hamster you keep and every group of 8 mice, then at least a 2x1 foot cage for every single male alongwith at least a 12 inch wheel for syrian hams and at least a 6.5inch wheel for a mouse.

As for feeding the mice hamster food, it is completely unacceptable - mice do not get what they need from hamster food. Companies like Wagg rely on people not doing research on their pets' dietary needs. You can do research and use it as a base if you make your own food by adding other things that make it suitable for mice, but if you are feeding them on a completely commercial mix you are far better getting them a good rat muesli (even [email protected] rat muesli) as Harry Ham and Wagg food doesn't even come close to giving them the trace elements, essential vitamins, protein and fat contents that they need to stay healthy. It would be like feeding a cat on nothing but dog food - it might come close but close is no good when it can affect their health, strength and immune system.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

zany_toon said:


> That box is far better so you would need that for your hams and your mice with the size of the group you have  And if you do still intend on breeding you will need something that size for every hamster you keep and every group of 8 mice, then at least a 2x1 foot cage for every single male alongwith at least a 12 inch wheel for syrian hams and at least a 6.5inch wheel for a mouse.
> 
> As for feeding the mice hamster food, it is completely unacceptable - mice do not get what they need from hamster food. Companies like Wagg rely on people not doing research on their pets' dietary needs. You can do research and use it as a base if you make your own food by adding other things that make it suitable for mice, but if you are feeding them on a completely commercial mix you are far better getting them a good rat muesli (even [email protected] rat muesli) as Harry Ham and Wagg food doesn't even come close to giving them the trace elements, essential vitamins, protein and fat contents that they need to stay healthy. It would be like feeding a cat on nothing but dog food - it might come close but close is no good when it can affect their health, strength and immune system.


so mice can have rat mix? then i will get some from my local pet store and add a little bit to their diet each day as i know completely changing the food all at once can cause stomach upsets


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

peter0 said:


> In all honesty i can see why the rescue didn't re-home to you and advised you to get better cages for all your animals. It doesn't matter how little time they spend in there, they need to have a good amount of space to play as they can't be out the cage the whole time they are awake.
> 
> Breeding is far from easy and isn't all 'ooh cute hamsters' it's a lot of hard work and you need to put in a ton of time and effort and possibly money. You need to take into fact that if you couldn't re-home them you would need decent sized cages for all of them as you couldn't have them all out 24/7. What if there is complications with the babies or the mother do you have all the funds to pay for vet bills. Do you have the time to hand rear each baby if the mother doesn't accept them? Breeding is not something to be taken lightly and takes a hell of a lot of work. You need to be able to have money for vets, extra food, extra bedding and extra everything really.
> 
> ...


we have the time and money yes


----------



## polishrose (Oct 26, 2011)

Sorry to butt in on this post but just have a quick question about mouse food-my daughter is currently using a pet shop mix(their own mixed stuff) and I have seen the one in [email protected] called gerbil and mouse muesli...which is better and what ingredients should there be in the pet shop own mixed one so I can tell if it's ok?


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

its reggie rat food ok for them?


----------



## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

It's a lot more than time and money. These animals need suitable housing to have a happy pregnancy and somewhere to rear these babies with lots of exercise space and room for the babies to play until they have to go into their own cages. 

If you managed to find suitable homes for each hamster and then they decided that they didn't want the hamster anymore would you give them a home again? Breeding is very difficult and is stressful to the mother and shouldn't be taken lightly. I'm lucky enough to work for my dad so if i had to hand rear any babies i would be there for them every second of every day and have the funds for the hundreds of pounds that could go on vet bills. There is a hell of a lot to consider before breeding.


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> its reggie rat food ok for them?


Good god no, one of the worst commercial mixes out there 
Take a look at the Shunamite diet, you can either make your own or buy premade mix from Rat Rations.


----------



## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

I use No7 no garlic or soya rat mix from RatRations. The mice eat every single thing in the mix and it's great for them. You could have a look on the website to get an idea of what things they put in their mix if you would rather make your own.


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> so mice can have rat mix? then i will get some from my local pet store and add a little bit to their diet each day as i know completely changing the food all at once can cause stomach upsets





polishrose said:


> Sorry to butt in on this post but just have a quick question about mouse food-my daughter is currently using a pet shop mix(their own mixed stuff) and I have seen the one in [email protected] called gerbil and mouse muesli...which is better and what ingredients should there be in the pet shop own mixed one so I can tell if it's ok?


Yes they can have rat mix  Re your question Polishrose, avoid anything that is for two species and get a dedicated mix instead - ones for two species never meet the needs for either. A rat muesli is much closer to the mouse needs (especially seeing as most rat mixes are a little lower in protein than what a rat needs.) You need something with a protein level of around 14%, I fed the rat muesli from [email protected] for the first year of having my mice and it was a good one for them. I'd recommend picking out the sunflower seeds (as they should be given as treats instead or meeces can become fat on them) and also remove the peanuts in it - some mice are intolerant to peanuts and better safe than sorry. As for a pet shop own mix, ask them if they know the protein level - things like pea flakes, maize, oats, lentils, puffed rice, cornflakes, seeds, bits of grass are all ok. If you check what is in it and post it people can tell you if it's ok


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

peter0 said:


> It's a lot more than time and money. These animals need suitable housing to have a happy pregnancy and somewhere to rear these babies with lots of exercise space and room for the babies to play until they have to go into their own cages.
> 
> If you managed to find suitable homes for each hamster and then they decided that they didn't want the hamster anymore would you give them a home again? Breeding is very difficult and is stressful to the mother and shouldn't be taken lightly. I'm lucky enough to work for my dad so if i had to hand rear any babies i would be there for them every second of every day and have the funds for the hundreds of pounds that could go on vet bills. There is a hell of a lot to consider before breeding.


i am lucky enough to be self employed so i have time and money, i too can be with them round the clock if needed



B3rnie said:


> Good god no, one of the worst commercial mixes out there
> Take a look at the Shunamite diet, you can either make your own or buy premade mix from Rat Rations.


thanks



peter0 said:


> I use No7 no garlic or soya rat mix from RatRations. The mice eat every single thing in the mix and it's great for them. You could have a look on the website to get an idea of what things they put in their mix if you would rather make your own.


is it this one you get?

No7 Complete No Garlic - All Adults - £0.90 : ratRations.com


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> its reggie rat food ok for them?


Avoid Reggie, avoid mixed species, avoid rat nuggets, avoid harry ham - I'd use burgess for hammies as I've been told it's one of the best (don't use it for mice.) Best ones for mice are homemade following the Shumanite, homemade with a burgess rabbit food base (the natural fibre one), rat mueslie ([email protected] is reasonable but it's the only one I used, a rat owner can tell you the better ones) or use rat rations


----------



## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

If you seriously want to breed you should do tons upon tons of research, get good housing and learn as much as you can. You will need to find a good breeder and get hamsters from good lines and be prepared for everything.

It's the one with Egg biscuit and No garlic i use. I think it's £1.08 instead of 90p.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

zany_toon said:


> You need something with a protein level of around 14%,


if thats the case i can see why harry hamster (19%) and wagg (16%) are unsuitable


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

peter0 said:


> If you seriously want to breed you should do tons upon tons of research, get good housing and learn as much as you can. You will need to find a good breeder and get hamsters from good lines and be prepared for everything.
> 
> It's the one with Egg biscuit and No garlic i use. I think it's £1.08 instead of 90p.


ah this one

No7 Complete with Egg Biscuit No Garlic - All Adults - £1.08 : ratRations.com

im not going to breed before ive bought at least those tubs and then when shes raising the litter i will buy 12 inch wheels


----------



## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

Yeah that's the one. People say postage can be pricey on RR but i bought 5kg of mice food and 1kg on dwarf ham mix and it came to around £25 with postage but the food will last me ages and that's with 5 mice and they do not waste a single bit so actually saves me money.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

which would be the best rat mix to get?

Rat Food for Sale at Pets at Home

PAH now seem to have a mouse section, i can feel a spree coming on :lol:


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

peter0 said:


> Yeah that's the one. People say postage can be pricey on RR but i bought 5kg of mice food and 1kg on dwarf ham mix and it came to around £25 with postage but the food will last me ages and that's with 5 mice and they do not waste a single bit so actually saves me money.


yeah mine seem to not eat some of the other mixes


----------



## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

Before i used RR I made my own mix and i used [email protected] rat muesli but you have to add other ingredients to that and i still had a lot of waste from the mice from it.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

peter0 said:


> Before i used RR I made my own mix and i used [email protected] rat muesli but you have to add other ingredients to that and i still had a lot of waste from the mice from it.


what did you add to it?


----------



## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

Wild bird seed with no peanuts, natural cereals - not things like Kellogs Rice Krisipies etc, Porridge oats and some meal worms.


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> which would be the best rat mix to get?
> 
> Rat Food for Sale at Pets at Home
> 
> PAH now seem to have a mouse section, i can feel a spree coming on :lol:


I wouldn't use any for mice, or rats tbh. The nuggets have 16% protein and the mix doesn't have the protein listed.

Rat Rations is your best bet.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

peter0 said:


> Wild bird seed with no peanuts, natural cereals - not things like Kellogs Rice Krisipies etc, Porridge oats and some meal worms.


oh i forgot mice can have meal worms, how many can they have? can hamsters have them?


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> if thats the case i can see why harry hamster (19%) and wagg (16%) are unsuitable


Not many are, it's one of the reasons that you need to shop around, and it's why a majority of owners make their own food. Took me almost 6 months to get my mix at the right protein level as I had to change it everytime that I tried a different food in it.

If you are still wanting to breed, I would strongly recommend that you find a species specific forum with breeders who can guide you and help you from their experience. A lot of people have experience in breeding, without having any worthwhile knowledge on genetics and the problems that can show up in breeding (for instance, did you know that breeding a hairless mouse to a hairless mouse is likely to result in a dead litter? Hairless mice have problems lactating and should never be true bred. Not something that some one other than a real breeder would tell you, after all, some one who just wants a profit isn't going to give a rats ar$e what you do with the animals) Any person serious about breeding should also be trying to find as many books and webpages about breeding and genetics as possible, and a species specific forum with a breeding section will have people who can guide you properly and make sure that you are getting accurate information. It is also helpful if you end up breeding and get some one who knows what they are talking about coming to you for a pet. I wouldn't get a mouse from some one who wouldn't spend a good few hours talking to me about their lines history and genetics and their breeding practices, and I wouldn't get a cat from a breeder that doesn't do genetic testing and can prove it either (only exception is if I get the rescue cats I want in future, in which case I don't care as long as they are a cat needing a home)


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> I wouldn't use any for mice, or rats tbh. The nuggets have 16% protein and the mix doesn't have the protein listed.
> 
> Rat Rations is your best bet.


so the rat rations mix has pumpkin seeds in it, do i have to take them out?


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

zany_toon said:


> Not many are, it's one of the reasons that you need to shop around, and it's why a majority of owners make their own food. Took me almost 6 months to get my mix at the right protein level as I had to change it everytime that I tried a different food in it.
> 
> If you are still wanting to breed, I would strongly recommend that you find a species specific forum with breeders who can guide you and help you from their experience. A lot of people have experience in breeding, without having any worthwhile knowledge on genetics and the problems that can show up in breeding (for instance, did you know that breeding a hairless mouse to a hairless mouse is likely to result in a dead litter? Hairless mice have problems lactating and should never be true bred. Not something that some one other than a real breeder would tell you, after all, some one who just wants a profit isn't going to give a rats ar$e what you do with the animals) Any person serious about breeding should also be trying to find as many books and webpages about breeding and genetics as possible, and a species specific forum with a breeding section will have people who can guide you properly and make sure that you are getting accurate information. It is also helpful if you end up breeding and get some one who knows what they are talking about coming to you for a pet. I wouldn't get a mouse from some one who wouldn't spend a good few hours talking to me about their lines history and genetics and their breeding practices, and I wouldn't get a cat from a breeder that doesn't do genetic testing and can prove it either (only exception is if I get the rescue cats I want in future, in which case I don't care as long as they are a cat needing a home)


i'll be honest i dont know a lot about mice breeding but i do know a fair bit about hamster breeding which is why i think hamster breeding is the way to go


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> so the rat rations mix has pumpkin seeds in it, do i have to take them out?


Pumpkin feeds aren't as fatty so no you don't need to completely remove them, but it might be worth making sure there aren't loads in it.



tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i'll be honest i dont know a lot about mice breeding but i do know a fair bit about hamster breeding which is why i think hamster breeding is the way to go


It's still worthwhile joining a breeding forum - no one knows everything and that's why breeders use the forums they do to help one another. What you haven't come across or seen before some one else might have and their experiences can sometimes make a difference between a hamster living and not. It's the sign of a good breeder - being some one who actively seeks the information out before starting and knows where and who to turn to in a time of need. Almost all worthwhile breeders of any rodent start out their first serious venture with a mentor - and most of that time they stay in touch with that mentor for years after starting.


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> so the rat rations mix has pumpkin seeds in it, do i have to take them out?


I never did, there isn't a huge amount of pumpkin seeds in the mix tbh.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

zany_toon said:


> Pumpkin feeds aren't as fatty so no you don't need to completely remove them, but it might be worth making sure there aren't loads in it.
> 
> It's still worthwhile joining a breeding forum - no one knows everything and that's why breeders use the forums they do to help one another. What you haven't come across or seen before some one else might have and their experiences can sometimes make a difference between a hamster living and not. It's the sign of a good breeder - being some one who actively seeks the information out before starting and knows where and who to turn to in a time of need. Almost all worthwhile breeders of any rodent start out their first serious venture with a mentor - and most of that time they stay in touch with that mentor for years after starting.


thanks, i'll have a look for a hamster breeding forum

they wont shout at me for wanting to breed will they?



B3rnie said:


> I never did, there isn't a huge amount of pumpkin seeds in the mix tbh.


thanks


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> thanks, i'll have a look for a hamster breeding forum
> 
> *they wont shout at me for wanting to breed will they? *
> 
> thanks


Depends if you are willing to listen, and if you plan to go ahead and breed responsibly.


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> thanks, i'll have a look for a hamster breeding forum
> 
> they wont shout at me for wanting to breed will they?
> 
> thanks


No, not if you genuinely take on what they are saying to you and show that you are trying to learn how to breed responsibly before you even start.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> Depends if you are willing to listen, and if you plan to go ahead and breed responsibly.





zany_toon said:


> No, not if you genuinely take on what they are saying to you and show that you are trying to learn how to breed responsibly before you even start.


thanks....


----------



## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

i dont see the point in breeding for experience. i am planning on breeding of my male rats with some rats from the same breeder next year. by that time my numbers should have gone down from the 28 i currently have. when and if i breed my boys i will be keeping every single male from the 2 litters and maybe a few girls aswell, the rest of the girls will be given back to the breeder. this is the onyl way i would ever breed, is if i was keeping some of the litter.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> i dont see the point in breeding for experience. i am planning on breeding of my male rats with some rats from the same breeder next year. by that time my numbers should have gone down from the 28 i currently have. when and if i breed my boys i will be keeping every single male from the 2 litters and maybe a few girls aswell, the rest of the girls will be given back to the breeder. this is the onyl way i would ever breed, is if i was keeping some of the litter.


i plan on keeping all of the litter


----------



## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

so what if the hamsters have 20. each hamster has to be kept in a seperate cage, where would you fit them all


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

CRL said:


> so what if the hamsters have 20. each hamster has to be kept in a seperate cage, where would you fit them all


i would fit them in my front room

bin cages can be stacked


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i would fit them in my front room
> 
> bin cages can be stacked


You must have a huge front room to be able to fit 20 suitable sized bin cages


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> You must have a huge front room to be able to fit 20 suitable sized bin cages


its about 18 feet by 12 feet and bin cages can be stacked


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> its about 18 feet by 12 feet and bin cages can be stacked


About the same size as my lounge, can't say I could fit 20 syrian sized cages in here, and yup I know bin cages can be stacked


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

B3rnie said:


> About the same size as my lounge, can't say I could fit 20 syrian sized cages in here, and yup I know bin cages can be stacked


thats why we can get so many in, tbh we have 7 atm and one is rotastak so theres loads of bits


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

quick question

i want to buy some of that rat food from rat rations but it says the payment method is card payment by phone  can i not just put my card in?


----------



## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> quick question
> 
> i want to buy some of that rat food from rat rations but it says the payment method is card payment by phone  can i not just put my card in?


I think you can use paypal  If it won't let you I'd call them tomorrow, I know a user on another forum who had to do that and they were really good at sorting the problem out.


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Not sure tbh, I pay by cheque so never had to find that option :lol:


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

zany_toon said:


> I think you can use paypal  If it won't let you I'd call them tomorrow, I know a user on another forum who had to do that and they were really good at sorting the problem out.


oh right thanks

dont want to use pay pal as its tied to my busines

i'll call them tomorrow


----------



## Crittery (May 2, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> one is rotastak


Are you aware rotostak isn't suitable for rodents? I'm jumping in mid conversation here so sorry if this has been covered - there are plenty of reasons, lack of space, lack of ventilation, not providing a natural habitat, no room for a wheel etc. IF you add modules to a large bin cage then they can be fine as a rather expensive *addition* but never solely on their own. They are pretty poor for Syrians as well because they can actually get stuck in the tubes.

I'm not sure how much has been covered re Syrian breeding, but you need to get your hamsters from an ethical breeder who can advise you on their genetics and so forth. There was a thread recently about some members who rescued a group of anophthalmic (eyeless, deaf and blind) hamsters that were a result of irresponsible breeding. You need to know what each hamster carries, as that isn't the only issue you could have.

There are a lot of Syrians in rescue so it sad to see a thread about breeding them tbh. I do hope your circumstances aren't likely to change in the next few years and that you genuinally will be able to home them well for their entire lives, pay for any vet bills (expensive, if you don't do your research as you'll got lots of odd things popping up). I see in your other thread you are disappointed about a rescue not considering you - but they gave you good feedback so why not just work on that and take in a rescue hamster?


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2012)

Crittery said:


> Are you aware rotostak isn't suitable for rodents? I'm jumping in mid conversation here so sorry if this has been covered - there are plenty of reasons, lack of space, lack of ventilation, not providing a natural habitat, no room for a wheel etc. IF you add modules to a large bin cage then they can be fine as a rather expensive *addition* but never solely on their own. They are pretty poor for Syrians as well because they can actually get stuck in the tubes.


It wasn't talked about in this thread but I have gone over that in another thread, seems like it fell on deaf ears


----------



## elmthesofties (Aug 8, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> i would fit them in my front room
> 
> bin cages can be stacked


Space might be easy to cope with. But how on earth do you plan on handling 20 hamsters a day? You won't have the time to give them all the time they need out of the cage unless you have a lot of help. And if you want to breed hamsters or any other animal, you need to be in it for the long run. You breed from the best and continue doing so until you reach your goal of producing the best hamsters possible. Doing a little bit of maths, if you breed your hamsters when you're 6 months old and keep all of them, then you could have over 80 hamsters by the time the first litter you produce is getting old. That's not including unrelated animals, either.

Your expectations seem a little unrealistic and asking if they can breed in the winter would seem like common sense, seeing as just about every pet shop that sells hamsters sells them throughout the year. A pet shop won't ship in hamsters from other countries where it's summer in our winter.

Sorry if I seem harsh but it's just my opinion. :/


----------



## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

I pay my RatRations by phone. Nice and easy and the person is always nice.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

elmthesofties said:


> Space might be easy to cope with. But how on earth do you plan on handling 20 hamsters a day? You won't have the time to give them all the time they need out of the cage unless you have a lot of help. And if you want to breed hamsters or any other animal, you need to be in it for the long run. You breed from the best and continue doing so until you reach your goal of producing the best hamsters possible. Doing a little bit of maths, if you breed your hamsters when you're 6 months old and keep all of them, then you could have over 80 hamsters by the time the first litter you produce is getting old. That's not including unrelated animals, either.
> 
> Your expectations seem a little unrealistic and asking if they can breed in the winter would seem like common sense, seeing as just about every pet shop that sells hamsters sells them throughout the year. A pet shop won't ship in hamsters from other countries where it's summer in our winter.
> 
> Sorry if I seem harsh but it's just my opinion. :/


the reason ive asked the question is ive read people say their hamsters wont get pregnant in the winter, i was just wondering how common it was



peter0 said:


> I pay my RatRations by phone. Nice and easy and the person is always nice.


thanks, im going to order it today


----------



## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

Your mice will love the mix, i've had no empty bowls since i've started using it so really it's saving me a fortune and i don't have to worry that they're not getting enough from the old mix.


----------



## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

peter0 said:


> Your mice will love the mix, i've had no empty bowls since i've started using it so really it's saving me a fortune and i don't have to worry that they're not getting enough from the old mix.


weve decided to get the 20kg one so that should last us forever lol


----------



## peter0 (Oct 4, 2011)

I got the 5kg and that bag will last my ages. I don't think i would even use up all the 20kg so it will be a lot of food you have


----------

