# Breeding



## Bunnie (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi I am new to this site and new to breeding just looking for advise and tips of experts. I hav already bin reading loads on Internet but I wanna chat with people with hands on experience so that I can be sure that when the time comes I will have all the best knowledge to breed healthy happy bunnies of a good standard. Xxx


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## Kammie (Apr 4, 2009)

My only advice is don't breed. There are far too many (35,000) rabbits sat in rescues waiting for homes that are being filled by cute fluffy baby bunnies that people have bred because they're cute.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Agree with what Kammie says


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## wacky (Jan 23, 2011)

Bunnie said:


> Hi I am new to this site and new to breeding just looking for advise and tips of experts. I hav already bin reading loads on Internet but I wanna chat with people with hands on experience so that I can be sure that when the time comes I will have all the best knowledge to breed healthy happy bunnies of a good standard. Xxx


try goldenbunnies


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

the best advice i can give you is, dont do it

failing that the second best advice is to find yourself a GOOD breeder near yourself who will be happy to take you under their wing and mentor you (which will take years) you will also need to research genetics (both reccesive and dominant genes and how they work up on each other)
and by good breeder i mean some one with good ethics and good standards who keeps their rabbits in good conditions and puts them first, with big, suitable hutches, and operate to a strict waiting list, with only a few litters a year, and breed rabbits for the reasons of bettering the breed and improving health and longlivity rather then just for the sake of it


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

Personally, I'm pro-rescue. So my opinion would be not to, there are plenty of rabbits in rescue at the moment still needing homes and another breeder won't help the situation.

However, this forum is supposed to support, as far as I understand it, all aspects of pet care, so that includes both breeding and rescue. Seeing that the cats and dogs forums have a breeding section each, it would seem a little unfair for the small animal forum to 'shun' you for it.

If you decide that breeding is definitely the route you want to go down, find yourself a well established, reputable breeder who can coach you. Make sure you do your research and that you are breeding for ethical reasons such as improving family health lines and genetics, not just for the cute fluffy baby factor.

Breeding is going to be expensive, hard-work. You will need to know all the cons more so than the pros first. Chances are if you don't then you will go into not expecting the tough side and find it's not what you want to do.

Personally I have my heart set on opening a rescue and have been doing plenty of research up untill now and will still be researching months down the line.

If you do your homework and get yourself a 'tutor' then I suppose it's your choice and good luck to you for it.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2012)

What breed are you focusing on? Why have you chosen to breed? 

Sorry to open my post with questions but your answers will help me with what advise to give you


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## helebelina (Nov 11, 2009)

Agree with the others. Why start breeding bunnies when there are thousands upon thousands of bunnies in rescues across the country with no home to go to? You are just adding to the problem. Especially at this time of year - right after Xmas when all those kids which were bought bunnies 4 Xmas are just getting fed up with them, like the rest of their toys.

It's just asking for trouble and bunnies are the most abused of all pets in the UK yet being the most popular. And mainly because people just don't know how to look after them. They should NOT be stuck in a cage at the bottom of someone's garden, yet most are. They should have room to run around in, have a friend (they are social animals) and have a constant supply of hay (something most owners neglect) as their teeth will become overgrown otherwise. 80% of their diet should be hay. 

if you breed bunnies you should have at least 4 lines of faultless buns to go before them to be sure to be clear of genetic abnormalities. 

You really need to be sure of what you're doing first. Hope this helps.


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## wacky (Jan 23, 2011)

you can never say there are no faults in your line as faults can go way back further than four how do you know your rabbit is not a glucomer carrier you wont unless you breed withj another carrier and get full blown glucomer no matter how much reserch you do you minght still get some bad luck its weather or not you are prepaired for that it can be very upsetting


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

You could never guarantee faultless animals whatever you do. Genetic mutations are a random thing and you could just have the luck that it affects one of your offspring.


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## wacky (Jan 23, 2011)

swatton42 said:


> You could never guarantee faultless animals whatever you do. Genetic mutations are a random thing and you could just have the luck that it affects one of your offspring.


i totaly agree thats why if you are going to breed be prepaired for some bad luck as well as good


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2012)

wacky said:


> you can never say there are no faults in your line as faults can go way back further than four how do you know your rabbit is not a glucomer carrier you wont unless you breed withj another carrier and get full blown glucomer no matter how much reserch you do you minght still get some bad luck its weather or not you are prepaired for that it can be very upsetting





swatton42 said:


> You could never guarantee faultless animals whatever you do. Genetic mutations are a random thing and you could just have the luck that it affects one of your offspring.


Nothing is 100% in life, but when breeding rabbits if you know the genetic history of both rabbits going back at LEAST 4 generations you can rule out a huge amount of problems before you start. Especially with certain breeds, which is why I asked what breed the OP wanted to focus on.

Yes there are times when new blood has to be bought in, but only *experienced* BRC recommended breeders should do this IMO as all manner of problems can pop up if you just bring in a new animal, for example I know one breeder who had to stop one of their lines completely (all her rabbits went to pet homes) as a fault was bought up by bringing in a new buck, an inexperienced breeder would not have noticed this fault until it was too late..


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## Obzocky (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm not going to say "don't breed".

I am going to ask, like others, why do you want to breed? What is your motivation? Not just "happy, healthy bunnies" but something more.

Now i'm very much someone who thinks breeding should be reserved for those who wish to be the best. Not just a hobby, not just something fun, not just for money, or producing pets, but for a particular reason. Aims, objectives, goals.

Do you wish to contribute to a particular breed, to focus on establishing a line of rabbits which have been selected for their health, longevity, structure and temperament?

If you wish to breed to a good standard you have to ask yourself what standard are you breeding to? Are you going for rabbits that are equally at home on the show bench and the home? Then you need to get yourself to a BRC show and get talking. Go up to people, discuss what you want to do, take in what people are saying about particular breeders, see if anyone is willing to not only give advice but to mentor you.

I always think a *good* new breeder will help the _future_ of rabbit rescue as providing they are dedicated and selective they should, in theory, screen prospective owners to the point where the rabbits will not end up in rescue, or at the very least the owners will always know the breeder shall take back whatever animals they have bred should circumstances change.

There are a host of reasons why I think a new breeder should breed.

There are more for why I think most people considering breeding should not breed.

Extensively conducting internet based research into this area is one thing, actually producing plans is another. It would be easier to view this thread positively if there were some indication of your plans and expectations in regards to breeding.


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Nothing is 100% in life, but when breeding rabbits if you know the genetic history of both rabbits going back at LEAST 4 generations you can rule out a huge amount of problems before you start. Especially with certain breeds, which is why I asked what breed the OP wanted to focus on.
> 
> Yes there are times when new blood has to be bought in, but only *experienced* BRC recommended breeders should do this IMO as all manner of problems can pop up if you just bring in a new animal, for example I know one breeder who had to stop one of their lines completely (all her rabbits went to pet homes) as a fault was bought up by bringing in a new buck, an inexperienced breeder would not have noticed this fault until it was too late..


Yes you are right about going back 4 generations reduces the chance of any problems as long as you understand what you are doing when breeding.

The other person is also right in the fact that a undesirable gene could be passed on for many more than four sets of offspring. It would only become apparent when 2 animals are mated that have both carried that recessive gene for many generations without it being recorded or picked up on.

The genetic mutation could affect any animal, regardless of either parent carrying that gene. That's why you could end up with 1 albino after decades of breeding pure black rabbits.

I'm just not really sure why you quoted, all points are relevant but are just slightly different areas of genetics, and we're all just trying to advise on what we know.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2012)

swatton42 said:


> Yes you are right about going back 4 generations reduces the chance of any problems as long as you understand what you are doing when breeding.
> 
> The other person is also right in the fact that a undesirable gene could be passed on for many more than four sets of offspring. It would only become apparent when 2 animals are mated that have both carried that recessive gene for many generations without it being recorded or picked up on.
> 
> ...


I quoted both posts because "some" people accuse me of singling them out and "some" people use that excuse to justify not knowing genetic histories .

Probably not the best example you could have used, if both rabbits mated are true blacks then there is no chance what so ever of an albino (REW) kit, black is dominant. It is only the dilution gene can have an impact (but they are still black, just a version of) and the brown gene can also come into play.
If a breeder knows their colour genetics (which I believe all should before starting to breed) then most will not have random surprise colours, the only time that will happen is if an unknown rabbit is bought into their lines 

Sorry to ramble and I hope you don't think I was having a go at you, but genetics are my thing even though I don't breed :lol:


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> I quoted both posts because "some" people accuse me of singling them out and "some" people use that excuse to justify not knowing genetic histories .
> 
> Probably not the best example you could have used, if both rabbits mated are true blacks then there is no chance what so ever of an albino (REW) kit, black is dominant. It is only the dilution gene can have an impact (but they are still black, just a version of) and the brown gene can also come into play.
> If a breeder knows their colour genetics (which I believe all should before starting to breed) then most will not have random surprise colours, the only time that will happen is if an unknown rabbit is bought into their lines
> ...


I agree with you mostly. I still stand by the mutation though. It's in the stages of meiosis when the strands of DNA are introduced from the mother and father. During replication the protein strands are re-assembled in the wrong order and therefore creating a mutated gene. Different to either parents. I used the albinoism because I am a saddo and watch big brother. There was an albino man on there although he was actually black, black parents, black family. For some reason that was the first thing that sprung to mind.

I don't breed either. I'm kind of glad there is people on here i can have a genetic debate with. Most people I know think I'm weird for liking the subject.

I don't breed either, have no intention of.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

I can't offer any better advice than you have already been offered but my tke on it is this.... Rabbits in rescue are increasing by the year unfortunately. The last litter for me was ....god i can't remember now but 8 years ago I think but anyway, besides the point, 4 of those 10 bunnies ended up coming back to me which no, wasn't a prob for me but it showed me how little many people think of pets in this day of age and how many people buy on a whim however much you question them and check them out....and since then i have not and will not breed another bun. it's also hard work and involves lots of stress and worry so has to be thought through very carefully and fully researched before hand.
I love rabbits and the joy of seeing a rabbit go from making a nest to having their litter and nurturing them is an amazing experience but for all of that there can be consequences that have a detrimental affect on both mum and babies so i just won't do it any more.
God luck in whatever you decide to do but please research into everything both good and bad


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## Hel_79 (Jun 14, 2011)

Please note that my comments are generic in keeping with the conversation.

My response to anybody thinking about breeding is:* Why breed*? Britain is overflowing with unwanted domesticated animals (including thousands of rabbits), yet we keep breeding more?! We desperately need to start putting the animals first and look at the bigger picture.

Will you be keeping all the animals you breed? Can you afford vet bills? If giving away or selling, can you 100% guarantee that all the animals you breed will go to loving homes and enjoy the space and care they deserve? And what if their owners decide to breed...can you be sure that the same can be said of them? And of the next owners....??

Breeding carries a moral responsibility, and these are just some of the questions that must be asked.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2012)

swatton42 said:


> I agree with you mostly. I still stand by the mutation though. It's in the stages of meiosis when the strands of DNA are introduced from the mother and father. During replication the protein strands are re-assembled in the wrong order and therefore creating a mutated gene. Different to either parents. I used the albinoism because I am a saddo and watch big brother. There was an albino man on there although he was actually black, black parents, black family. For some reason that was the first thing that sprung to mind.
> 
> I don't breed either. I'm kind of glad there is people on here i can have a genetic debate with. Most people I know think I'm weird for liking the subject.
> 
> I don't breed either, have no intention of.


Oh I agree there are mutations of genes, but not in colour (in rabbits). For starters hairless animals are a genetic mutation so yeah I fully agree with that, I was just explaining why your example didn't work in this case 
As I said (and I know you agree) it isn't 100% but it helps rule out a huge amount of problems before they start if you know the history, so it is best to start with rabbits that are known rather than sticking two bunnies together and preparing for some bad luck...
(I watched that BB too :lol
But yay I have found another genetic freak, we are few and far between (especially ones that don't breed :lol


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## swatton42 (Oct 29, 2011)

It is exciting that I am not the only 1. I think our point still stands though that the OP decides they wish to breed, that all of this is very important to know, and needs someone who understands what's going on to guide them.

I've never seen a hairless rabbit, I don't imagine them being is 'cute' looking as hairless guinea pigs or cats. I'm not a big fan of hairless dogs either.

And since we are already so off topic, celeb big brother is starting soon. Not as good without Davina.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2012)

swatton42 said:


> It is exciting that I am not the only 1. I think our point still stands though that the OP decides they wish to breed, that all of this is very important to know, and needs someone who understands what's going on to guide them.
> 
> I've never seen a hairless rabbit, I don't imagine them being is 'cute' looking as hairless guinea pigs or cats. I'm not a big fan of hairless dogs either.
> 
> And since we are already so off topic, celeb big brother is starting soon. Not as good without Davina.


Unfortunately people are starting to breed hairless rabbits :mad5: They aren't cute in the slightest IMO 

I haven't watched BB in a couple years now, it got boring for me and I got sick of the bullying that went on un-noticed


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## Bunnie (Jan 4, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> What breed are you focusing on? Why have you chosen to breed?
> 
> Sorry to open my post with questions but your answers will help me with what advise to give you


Mini lops and mini lion lops. I am wanting to breed to try and improve the rabbits. I have had them as pets for a couple of years and in the last year I have been considering breeding I have researched loads. I have just got my new rabbit from in the next village to me she is a breeder n has been for a few years but due to other commitment is giving up but she said she will be mor than happy to help me if u need anything.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2012)

Bunnie said:


> Mini lops and mini lion lops. I am wanting to breed to try and improve the rabbits. I have had them as pets for a couple of years and in the last year I have been considering breeding I have researched loads. I have just got my new rabbit from in the next village to me she is a breeder n has been for a few years but due to other commitment is giving up but she said she will be mor than happy to help me if u need anything.


Is this breeder willing to help you with understanding genetics? Is the breeder BRC registered? 
When you say you are trying to improve the rabbits could you explain that a bit more please?
Are you aware of the problems that can arise in these breeds?


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## Bunnie (Jan 4, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Is this breeder willing to help you with understanding genetics? Is the breeder BRC registered?
> When you say you are trying to improve the rabbits could you explain that a bit more please?
> Are you aware of the problems that can arise in these breeds?


Hi. Yes she is brc reg. and she is willing to help me with all aspects from the history thought to the breeding and aftercare. Evan though I have to help I still think information from others is good as u can Neva have to much info n help when it comes to these things. I want to improve the lines of the rabbits health and quality. I want to produce excellent show quality rabbits for show and pets. I am aware of problems (and still learning) and cost of the up keep and time but now my kids are in full time school n I am a stay at home mum I have the time and funds to dedicate to the rabbits.


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## Bunnie (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks for all the comments and info. I see a lot of comments abut rabbits in rescue I am all for rescue animals one of my pet rabbits is a rescue and I have recently been looking for a dog through rescue centres. I am wanting to breed show standard rabbits as I know not all will go to people who show but I know if they are of excellent show standard and they go to people who show then they will be well cared for.


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## wacky (Jan 23, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Oh I agree there are mutations of genes, but not in colour (in rabbits). For starters hairless animals are a genetic mutation so yeah I fully agree with that, I was just explaining why your example didn't work in this case
> As I said (and I know you agree) it isn't 100% but it helps rule out a huge amount of problems before they start if you know the history, so it is best to start with rabbits that are known rather than sticking two bunnies together and preparing for some bad luck...
> (I watched that BB too :lol
> But yay I have found another genetic freak, we are few and far between (especially ones that don't breed :lol


what i was saying was it doesnt matter how fer back you go some gernetic problems can not be shown up hence the bit of bad luck i was on about nothing to do with colour


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2012)

Bunnie said:


> Thanks for all the comments and info. I see a lot of comments abut rabbits in rescue I am all for rescue animals one of my pet rabbits is a rescue and I have recently been looking for a dog through rescue centres. I am wanting to breed show standard rabbits as I know not all will go to people who show but I know if they are of excellent show standard and *they go to people who show then they will be well cared for*.


I hate to put a downer on things, but please don't kid yourself with that, there is a breeder/shower that is currently under RSPCA investigation and many show rabbits end up in rescues (including rung rabbits).
I have 2 rabbits here that originally came from one of the best German lop breeders in the country, yet they still ended up being rehomed 
I think your best bet when rehoming the babies will be if you make sure you write out a contract stating that you will take back any rabbit if circumstances change and make sure you do home visits before selling on so that you know where they are going and have the best chance of getting them back rather than them ending up in a rescue center somewhere


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2012)

wacky said:


> what i was saying was it doesnt matter how fer back you go some gernetic problems can not be shown up hence the bit of bad luck i was on about nothing to do with colour


I didn't say you said anything about colour 

What I said was


> Nothing is 100% in life, but when breeding rabbits if you know the genetic history of both rabbits going back at LEAST 4 generations you can rule out a huge amount of problems before you start. Especially with certain breeds, which is why I asked what breed the OP wanted to focus on.


Everything else was part of a convo with the person quoted.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

You say you have the time, but do you have the space?

There are far too many breeders, even top ones, whose breeding/showing stock spend their lives stuck in tiny tiered hutches.

How many 6ft by 2ft by 2ft hutches complete with runs can you fit on your property?


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## wacky (Jan 23, 2011)

Bunnie said:


> Hi. Yes she is brc reg. and she is willing to help me with all aspects from the history thought to the breeding and aftercare. Evan though I have to help I still think information from others is good as u can Neva have to much info n help when it comes to these things. I want to improve the lines of the rabbits health and quality. I want to produce excellent show quality rabbits for show and pets. I am aware of problems (and still learning) and cost of the up keep and time but now my kids are in full time school n I am a stay at home mum I have the time and funds to dedicate to the rabbits.


be carefull who you let your rabbits go too not all brc members look after there rabbits propely some keep them locked up all the time in very small cages witch is cruel just because they are brc members doesent mean they care for there rabbits like they should any one can be a brc member


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## Obzocky (Jan 1, 2012)

May I ask the stud name of the woman who is giving up, if you don't mind sharing? I'm just curious .

Do not trust that just because someone is BRC registered/intends to show the rabbit they will offer a good home. There are too many people winning in the show circuit whose breeder rabbits are kept in disgusting conditions. As others have said be sure to draw up a contract, check the potential owners out, get vet references if possible.

There are also many who are part of the show community who are still stuck in the past in terms of how they keep their rabbits. Just be aware that sometimes show/breeder homes may not be the best - they'll show stock you've produced, maybe help get your name out there, but the rabbit is rarely a pet and will not be treated as such. As you know, it all depends on the individual. So a whole lot of checking, discussion and if possible visiting their setup (I know, not always practical, but photographs are an excellent alternative) before letting your kits go to show homes. Or pet homes for that matter.

Have you been to any shows and had a chance to talk to some of the big winners about lop structure? Mini lops are a competitive breed to get into if this is your first outing into the show world - large entry numbers, lots of breeders, and the ones that win are usually part of a very good bunch. 

Are there any lines you admire, anyone you'd want to base your lines off of? Any breeders you admire?


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## Bunnie (Jan 4, 2012)

Nonnie said:


> You say you have the time, but do you have the space?
> 
> There are far too many breeders, even top ones, whose breeding/showing stock spend their lives stuck in tiny tiered hutches.
> 
> How many 6ft by 2ft by 2ft hutches complete with runs can you fit on your property?


I currently have 3 5ft daisy cottages the one with upstairs and run underneath. N I have a big out building that's could fit easily another 15-20.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Its good that you are researching this first, shows you care about your animals and are a responsible person. But i really wish you'd reconsider breeding, 'show standard' means they are bred to look the way people want them too, that often does not help them longterm to be a healthy rabbit, I have a minilop that is 'show standard' shes only 5 years old and has severe arthirits and has never been able to hop properly because of the way she has been bred. There are hundreds of 'show standard' minilops in rescues and the same with lionhead lops, to breed more just adds to the problem. 

It would be nice if you could use your time to take on some rescue buns and enjoy them as pets, so they can be neutered and enjoy having a companion, but thats just my opinion.  

Good luck what ever you decide to do.


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## Minion (Jan 11, 2012)

My Grandad used to breed rabbits when I was little but only based on personality. It was probably a long shot to be fair but I never had a rabbit that wasn't charismatic.

I must admit I have accidentally bred rabbits once. I bought two rabbits and went to the vets to have them sexed so that we would know whether to separate them or not and he told us they were both female... To cut a long story short Biscuit had 2 babies, one we kept and the other one I gave away to someone that works with my dad, keeps her has a house rabbit and gives her her own bedroom. 

My rabbit at the minute has no chance of passing on his genes. When introduced to my Dad's females when we went to visit for a few weeks, he wouldn't stop humping their faces, even when they turned round for him! We decided it was safe to keep them together as after 2 weeks he still wasn't any wiser bless him.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

Hi Bunnie
Breeding rabbits is a huge commitment you will spend hours every day cleaning out and socialising. It is a huge expense not only the accommodation but the 6 monthly vaccines. 

The best advice I can give you is to attend some local and national shows this spring, ask a relatively local breeder if they would consider taking you under their wing. Visit for a couple of days a month min throughout the year and if your still wanting to breed next spring ask if they would consider letting you have a rabbit they consider to be of breeding standard. Not all the rabbits in a litter make show standard many go as pets.


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