# Sbt!



## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

This was my original first choice dog , and once again im drawn to them , i wont lie , it was the fact there have been numerous dog attacks publizied that put me off, not the fear of them atacking my family as we have no children ect ect and i would never leave them around a small child , but just the thought of what people would think if he was off a lead in a field ect ect, but im totally inlove with them still! M mum and dad saw a little puppy one today called roxy and they rang me up and said even they were inlove with them.

I know its usually irespnsible owners but theres some people saying , theres more agression towards animals and humans than any other dog bla bla bla

but then i thought , there one of the most popular kept dogs and theres reali not that manny dog attacks at all by them

just wanted to ask you alls for your opinion. it wouldnt just be me walking him, my dad would come to or my mum ect ect but im all set to properly train him!


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

They are no more prone to biting people than any other dog - in fact they are probably the best dog for a family with children! They are all about people! Bad press comes from idiots owning them and not training them/socialising.

They are brilliant dogs, with brilliant personalities, and big soppy lumps.


you will get people who are cautious of them, but its their loss. I see lots of sbt's off lead where buster is walked, and 9/10 they are perfect. The 1/10 isnt aggression, just overly boisterous


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

Any dog can be aggressive imo not matter what the breed is..At the end of the day its down to the training and the socalization the dog has...They are a very popular breed indeed and it seems to be they fall in to the wrong hand so often and for all the wrong reason's..But in the right home with the right training ect..they make wonderful pets!

If you are willing to give the dog everything it needs witch you would have to do with any breed anyway then i couldnt see a problem..Who cares what people think of you because the dog you own..


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

I used to own a SBT until he passed away last year.

He was the most wonderful dog ever!!
Fantastic with my young children and loved my cats also.

They are very loyal and loving dogs but they need to be trained correctly.

Too many people see them as a status symbol and want vicious looking dogs to make them look good, which drives me mad 

I have attached a few pictures of Jackson so you can see just what a wonderful personality he had.


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

If you're willing to train and socialise them they're fantastic dogs and famous for their love of people especially children. It's the idiots that get them as status symbols and don't bother with the training or even worse train them to be aggressive that give them a bad name


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

The SBT is one of only two breeds described in the KC's online standards as 'good with children'. The breed is often nick-named the 'Nanny dog'.

Biddable and people focused they are a doddle to train. Their fighting ancestry has left the breed with pre-disposition towards dog-aggression. That is to say it is, on average, easier (by accident or design) to make an SBT dog-aggresive than many other breeds which makes proper socialisation doubly important. Similarly their history has left the breed with a pre-disposition _away _from human-aggression. That is to say that it is, on average, harder to make an SBT human-aggressive than many other breeds making them an exceptionally reliable dog around people.

It is true that SBTs and their crooses have been implicated in several regretable and, sometimes, tragic incidents but partly you are right that this is a function of the breed's huge popularity and it is also a category error - irresponsible owners have more incidents and, currently, the SBT is popular among many irresponsible owners.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> The SBT is one of only two breeds described in the KC's online standards as 'good with children'. The breed is often nick-named the 'Nanny dog'.
> 
> Biddable and people focused they are a doddle to train. Their fighting ancestry has left the breed with pre-disposition towards dog-aggression. That is to say it is, on average, easier (by accident or design) to make an SBT dog-aggresive than many other breeds which makes proper socialisation doubly important. Similarly their history has left the breed with a pre-disposition _away _from human-aggression. That is to say that it is, on average, harder to make an SBT human-aggressive than many other breeds making them an exceptionally reliable dog around people.
> 
> It is true that SBTs and their crooses have been implicated in several regretable and, sometimes, tragic incidents but partly you are right that this is a function of the breed's huge popularity and it is also a category error - irresponsible owners have more incidents and, currently, the SBT is popular among many irresponsible owners.


Very well put!

Indeed SBT are very safe with people and usually very easy to train.

However any responsible owner needs to be aware that they may not tolerate other dogs very well.
Its down to training (socialisation is very important at a very early age) and the individual dog (and thus down to breeding as well).

As SBTs are quite powerful dogs despite their size the owner needs to be vigilant; SBTs are originally bred for gameness; they are courageous, are not easily stopped by pain and will not give up easily; all of those qualities mean that an owner needs to always remain vigilant so as not to let a fight happen or to stop it quickly; any dog can fight, fights between dogs are daily occurrences and often quite minor tiffs, but with SBT they can more easily develop in serious quarrels causing significant injuries.
That to me is the only "flaw" of the SBT and its not really a flaw as such, its just part of their character!

The last thing I would say is that they need (like many other breeds) sufficient mental and physical stimulation as boredom can soon become destructive behaviour (and a destructive SBT will cause more damage in less time than a destructive miniature pincher for instance )

xx


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

Be careful where you get your puppy, make sure the breeder breeds for temperament and go and enjoy your dog


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

rona said:


> Be careful where you get your puppy, make sure the breeder breeds for temperament and go and enjoy your dog


and has had all the relevant health tests for the breed!


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

I would normally encourage people to look to rescue first but with SBT I will make an exception. I won't encourage. I urge...I plead...I beg...

There are thousands of SBTs in rescue right now. Today. Thousands. Among them there are pups and, even better, assessed adults known to be of good temperament.

There is no breed that needs rescue like the SBT. This is not a breed that is in crisis. This is a breed beyond crisis. It is dying.

Staffordshire Bull Terrier » dog rescue | dogs for adoption | UK

CASSIES BLOG DIARY - Staffie Rescue Homepage

Northern SBT Rescue

Save the Staffies - Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Rescue dogs, staffies, staffy

sbtrescue/index

More here


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I know people say they are lovely dogs, and a man up the road from me has just had a rescue who is very well behaved. But Amber has been attacked by two of them, and I just don't feel I would trust one, I know I'm been irrational but I just can't help how I feel, when ever I see one I cross over the road with or withour Amber.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> I know people say they are lovely dogs, and a man up the road from me has just had a rescue who is very well behaved. But Amber has been attacked by two of them, and I just don't feel I would trust one, I know I'm been irrational but I just can't help how I feel, when ever I see one I cross over the road with or withour Amber.


I own two and i do the same. Its nothing to do with the dog, but i dont trust that the owners have trained or socialised them properly.

Sadly, many SBT owners dont bother with basic training, and enjoy having a dog straining at the end of a leash, and seem to derive pleasure from intimidating other people and other dogs.

Responsible SBT owners are out numbered 100-1.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> I know people say they are lovely dogs, and a man up the road from me has just had a rescue who is very well behaved. But Amber has been attacked by two of them, and I just don't feel I would trust one, I know I'm been irrational but I just can't help how I feel, when ever I see one I cross over the road with or withour Amber.


I'm the same with them. I just don't trust them. Even more so after a poodle down the street got attacked within an inch of her life by a staffie type dog. The owner had to kick and punch it to get his poodle out of it's mouth because she was hanging like a rag. The vets had no hope for her but she made it. There's 2 across the street from us and if I hear or see them I cross the street because they bark and growl at everything and anything. Not many that live here get walked but I know if they did I would cross the street..


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

well most people say rottweilers are lovely dogs , but id be wary of them more then a staffy...


just cuz theres a staffy or rottwieler doesnt mean there gonna savage your dogs..


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> I know people say they are lovely dogs, and a man up the road from me has just had a rescue who is very well behaved. But Amber has been attacked by two of them, and I just don't feel I would trust one, I know I'm been irrational but I just can't help how I feel, when ever I see one I cross over the road with or withour Amber.





Nonnie said:


> I own two and i do the same. Its nothing to do with the dog, but i dont trust that the owners have trained or socialised them properly.
> 
> Sadly, many SBT owners dont bother with basic training, and enjoy having a dog straining at the end of a leash, and seem to derive pleasure from intimidating other people and other dogs.
> 
> Responsible SBT owners are out numbered 100-1.


I'm another one that has cause to be wary of sbt's, Ailsa ( my heart dog ) was killed by one a couple of years ago, it was a dog that she knew very well, one that she saw every week and one that has a very knowledgeable staffie owner, we have since learnt that most of the dogs from the same litter have attacked other dogs and one even as a pup attacked it's own mother. Please as others have said be very very careful where you go to get your pup/dog.
Just to ad I do like staffies I just won't let my dogs anywhere near one, I'm not prepared to take a chance with their lives.

Terri


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

but u cud get one from a kennel club thing, cost you 100s and it still could attack another dog , its all about socialization and training


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

I think its sad people feel they have to move away from them..I can honestly say every single staffy i have meet has been a right little darling and i have seen a fair few there very popular around here..They even play with our little cresties over the feild! 

How do you know that a little poodle isnt going to lundge at your dog..i bet people dont cross the road when the see a poodle coming towards them!


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

exactly DD

ive watched loads on animal planet lots of litttle dogs go for everything and the ones who you dont expect , any dog can do it and i think its bad to jsut pinpoint SBT its whats making them be confused with bad dogs


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

The response i will get will be "SBT can do alot more damage!"


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> How do you know that a little poodle isnt going to lundge at your dog..i bet people dont cross the road when the see a poodle coming towards them!


Poodles are rare here so maybe that's why people don't cross the road.. Staffies on the other hand are agressive here so people just don't trust them. Can I ask why you picked a poodle as an example? Alot of people when they come to our house tell us they thought poodles were snappy and horrible...


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Staffie's are lovely dogs !

They are like a big dog, is a small dogs body. They are very loyal, brave, and very loving and soft. Dont listen to the press, its only mindless idoits, who try and make there staffies more dog agressive for status and to fight them, which tarnish the breeds name... Staffies are still on my list


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

emilylp said:


> well most people say rottweilers are lovely dogs , but id be wary of them more then a staffy...
> 
> just cuz theres a staffy or rottwieler doesnt mean there gonna savage your dogs..


exaclty emily...SBT's are fantastic dogs and i would recommend them to anyone....we have four living with us and i can honestly say they are fantastic.....three are rescues....two of them with no history at all and they are super dogs.....none of them show any aggression...even after all they have been through.....some people will look down their noses but i have learnt to ignore it.....
what should be made clear is any dog can be aggressive regardless of the breed......


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> Poodles are rare here so maybe that's why people don't cross the road.. Staffies on the other hand are agressive here so people just don't trust them. Can I ask why you picked a poodle as an example? Alot of people when they come to our house tell us they thought poodles were snappy and horrible...


First little fluffy dog that came to mind..no reason..I have never had anything to do with them so dont know what there like.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> I think its sad people feel they have to move away from them..I can honestly say every single staffy i have meet has been a right little darling and i have seen a fair few there very popular around here..They even play with our little cresties over the feild!
> 
> How do you know that a little poodle isnt going to lundge at your dog..i bet people dont cross the road when the see a poodle coming towards them!


totally agree DD....i did a thread on about the which breeds people have found to be aggressive and most of the replies were the small...or toy breeds.....yorkshire terriers,jrt's etc.....


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> Poodles are rare here so maybe that's why people don't cross the road.. Staffies on the other hand are agressive here so people just don't trust them. Can I ask why you picked a poodle as an example? Alot of people when they come to our house tell us they thought poodles were snappy and horrible...


I LOVE POODLES 
A standard poodle reconciled me with dogs (dunno why I was afraid of dogs then..i was only 8 or sth..and since then I am a devoted dog lover )!
I will have a poodle one day..but only a standard poodle though, they are my favourites  (could have a medium one..but not a miniature or toy, not my type at all!)

Poodles are quite rare around here too! Are they generally not that common in the UK?
In France they are everywhere!!! (the medium, miniature and toy versions at least) 



DevilDogz said:


> The response i will get will be "SBT can do alot more damage!"


to some extent it is true - but not to a broad extent...they can do more damage than a dog of similar size (heigh-wise) because their jaw is slightly bigger for their body (big heads ) and they may be able to inflict more damage quickly than some other dogs because they are more game...however some very prey-driven dogs (and mine isnt AT ALL) can do LOADS of damage in short time if for some reason their prey drive is directed at another dog!

Staffies are absolutely lovely dogs if you do not mind the bad press and some people looking down at you (they are the ones losing out anyway )
I dont care and most people in my area are quite nice anyway so...

xxx


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> Poodles are rare here so maybe that's why people don't cross the road.. Staffies on the other hand are agressive here so people just don't trust them. Can I ask why you picked a poodle as an example? Alot of people when they come to our house tell us they thought poodles were snappy and horrible...


I think DD was just picking any dog that you wouldnt ''think'' would attack , but any could , i mean as i said loads of little dogs ive seen go for the bigger dogs, only reason this isnt noted is because they dont think the little poochy woochy dogs can do any damage , when infact even a jack russel could maul a baby ,but its the risk any dog owner takes if they are willing to leave a dog in the presence of a baby or small child unsupervised.

dog attacks may be a problem but could easily be resoved by;

morons not fighting them and breeding them to fight

parents supervising there dogs at all times when theres LO's about

Proper training and socialization

some people jsut fail to do all of these things, resulting in the injust bad naming of good dogs!


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Oblada said:


> I LOVE POODLES
> A standard poodle reconciled me with dogs (dunno why I was afraid of dogs then..i was only 8 or sth..and since then I am a devoted dog lover )!
> I will have a poodle one day..but only a standard poodle though, they are my favourites  (could have a medium one..but not a miniature or toy, not my type at all!)
> 
> ...


I wanted a standard to begin with but I got a miniature boy instead. He'll grow to 15 inches so will be just a tiny bit smaller than a standard. I'd have one of each if I could. Well where I live apart from the 10 at my breeders house I've only saw about 5 or 6 over the past 8 years. Here they only come in toy, miniature and standard, don't have medium. Standards are the best but people always seem to think of poodles of being small. One thing I'd be affraid of having a standard poodle is people mistaking it for a doodle! I've been around them since I was born and it's the only breed I've grown to love 100%


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

I love poodles very smart and active dogs I would love to have a standard at some point but it would be kept in a puppy cut. But a lot of people only picture the yappy little toy dogs strolling through Paris.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

Does anyone think SBT will be band in the uk because of the bad press in the few years!?

i bloody hope not ill be getting one in 9months!


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

emilylp said:


> Does anyone think SBT will be band in the uk because of the bad press in the few years!?
> 
> i bloody hope not ill be getting one in 9months!


Hope not, i dont think the breed will be banned. But i think the only problem comes if people/authorites deem it to be pitbull like, for some crazy reason then you might have problems.


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

I really really hope not that would be awful and it wouldn't actually do anything but criminalise the people who actually do look after their dogs


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

I cant see them becoming a banned breed....but something really has to be done about the amount that are being bred.....there are just too many in rescue and healthy ones being pts on a weekly basis......


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Johnderondon said:


> I would normally encourage people to look to rescue first but with SBT I will make an exception. I won't encourage. I urge...I plead...I beg...
> 
> There are thousands of SBTs in rescue right now. Today. Thousands. Among them there are pups and, even better, assessed adults known to be of good temperament.
> 
> ...


I repped you for this - great post. NOBODY should be breeding these dogs at the moment until our rescue crisis is sorted! x


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> I cant see them becoming a banned breed....but something really has to be done about the amount that are being bred.....there are just too many in rescue and healthy ones being pts on a weekly basis......


Thats a good point, theres wayyy to many. I think that can be put down to irresponsible owner ship. Thanks to youths having them as the lastest fashion accessory or status dog, then either getting bored , or wanting a bigger dog for the same reasons. There needs to be some check on whos buying dogs imo


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Captain.Charisma said:


> Thats a good point, theres wayyy to many. I think that can be put down to irresponsible owner ship. Thanks to youths having them as the lastest fashion accessory or status dog, then either getting bored , or wanting a bigger dog for the same reasons. There needs to be some check on whos buying dogs imo


one of our staff's is 7 months old just...she is a very poor example of the breed.....the amount of morons that have asked me if i want to breed her with their male staff is unreal...she is 7 months old!!!!....she is a poor example of the breed.....she has had no health checks.....when i reply NO she wont be having pups full stop..she will be nuetered when she is old enough...they look at me like i am the stupid one.......


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

On a side note, are American Staffordshire Terrier an reconised breed in the UK ? or are the classed as Pitbulls ?

As in the states they are seen as seperate breeds ..


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

Amstaffs are the show cousins of the pits right? Yes they fall under the pitbull laws.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

I own two of them,Personally I don't think I would own another breed.

Mine have all been fantastic with my children and love to join in all the fun including getting in the pool with my kids! As a rule Staffords are not keen on water.

Both of my two have been attacked and bitten numerous times by other dogs and breeds,my dog is fine and seems to have a can't be bothered attitude,however my bitch is different and will not tolerate other dogs coming close to her,thanks to numpty owners with out of control loose dogs!

Staffords do not go looking for trouble,but are very unlikely to back down when challenged,a stare from another dog can be interpretated as a challenge.
They can do a disproportionate amount of damage for their size,they are strong powerful dogs and you should always remember that you own a bold,fearless,dog.


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> one of our staff's is 7 months old just...she is a very poor example of the breed.....the amount of morons that have asked me if i want to breed her with their male staff is unreal...she is 7 months old!!!!....she is a poor example of the breed.....she has had no health checks.....when i reply NO she wont be having pups full stop..she will be nuetered when she is old enough...they look at me like i am the stupid one.......


Yehh, i am affaid so  Not only are they poorly breed and used as a cash cow. They are plenty of morons who have them :S


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Nicky09 said:


> Amstaffs are the show cousins of the pits right? Yes they fall under the pitbull laws.


Erm kinda . I thought it was somthing to do with there legs, i think the Armstaffs have more emphasis/power on the front legs, while the Pitbulls have more emphais and power in there hind legs for jumping ect.. Also i think as a general rule Pits are lighter built, thanks to dog fighting history...


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> I repped you for this - great post. NOBODY should be breeding these dogs at the moment until our rescue crisis is sorted! x


But as stated before,numerous times,a rescue is not suitable for everyone,as long as the breeder is responsible then I don't see the issue.

Why should good responsible breeders be paying the price for those irresponsible BYB's ?


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> But as stated before,numerous times,a rescue is not suitable for everyone,as long as the breeder is responsible then I don't see the issue.
> 
> Why should good responsible breeders be paying the price for those irresponsible BYB's ?


i also agree with Sally here.....i have 4 staff's here all rescue...but as i have fallen for the breed i hope one day to buy a sbt from a good breeder.....it would be lovely to own a good example of the breed with health checks etc......i love all 4 staff's but if i am honest they have all come from bad breeders...and are poor example of the breed.....i dont think its fair to say they should not be bred...even by good breeders.....


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> But as stated before,numerous times,a rescue is not suitable for everyone,as long as the breeder is responsible then I don't see the issue.
> 
> Why should good responsible breeders be paying the price for those irresponsible BYB's ?


I think this is true for any breed. I'd have loved a rescue poodle but with Cheeko I couldn't risk a dog with behaviour problems or one I know hardly anything about because he's not the most easy dog. He's a poor example of poodles aswell so I wanted a good example from good lines and health tested parents. When the time is right I'll get a rescue but sometimes I feel others try and make those who get a puppy feel bad for not getting a rescue when the situation isn't suitable for one. Elsewhere I'm already being made to feel bad for the fact I'll be showing Blu and not getting him neutered


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I think this is true for any breed. I'd have loved a rescue poodle but with Cheeko I couldn't risk a dog with behaviour problems or one I know hardly anything about because he's not the most easy dog. He's a poor example of poodles aswell so I wanted a good example from good lines and health tested parents. When the time is right I'll get a rescue but sometimes I feel others try and make those who get a puppy feel bad for not getting a rescue when the situation isn't suitable for one. Elsewhere I'm already being made to feel bad for the fact I'll be showing Blu and not getting him neutered


He's your dog,don't let others tell you what you should and should not be doing.
I own an entire dog,I am not currently showing him yet I have no intention of getting him castrated.
If that makes me irresponsible in some people's eyes then so be it!


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> a rescue is not suitable for everyone


There is in SBT in rescue to suit anyone.


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

emilylp said:


> Does anyone think SBT will be band in the uk because of the bad press in the few years!?


No. Too popular.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> There is in SBT in rescue to suit anyone.


Really,tell me where I can find a well bred puppy with Papers and health tested then please ?


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Johnderondon said:


> There is in SBT in rescue to suit anyone.


Sometimes the people looking for a dog or even another dog to add to the family get refused rescues. For all sorts of reasons. I know i can't rescue from any shelter. I will be looking into re-homing from a breeder when i am ready to get another dog but other than that i will buying from a top class breeder. At least then i know some things are assured.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

I would rescue one , if there was a puppy, say 8 weeks old and it was a deffo staff

u see i will be buying from a breeder where i can see both parents so i know its a staff.


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Really,tell me where I can find a well bred puppy with Papers and health tested then please ?


I didn't say there were papers to suit everyone (though there might be through some breed specific rescues). I said there was a dog to suit everyone. If you want a conformationally excellent, healthy SBT - there is one in rescue_ right now_.

I would also point out that testing for health becomes far less important when obtaining an adult dog as you can actually _see_ what you're getting. HC, L-2, phpv, etc will usually be apparent in affected adult dogs so litter screening/breeding stock screening becomes redundant. However smaller rescues may well consider undertaking any tests that were important to you in dogs that interested you (at your cost, naturally).


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> Sometimes the people looking for a dog or even another dog to add to the family get refused rescues. For all sorts of reasons.


Sometimes people are refused by breeders. What happens then? Try another breeder, I suppose.



> I know i can't rescue from any shelter.


Knowing how many different shelters there are and knowing how critieria varies from "Are you a God-like, perfect owner?" down to "Have you got fifty quid?" I find that difficult to understand.



> I will be looking into re-homing from a breeder when i am ready to get another dog but other than that i will buying from a top class breeder.


There's nothing wrong with that. Anyone can get a rescue but not everyone can get one because there's not enough. I wish more people would consider it though so I hope you manage to source an acceptable re-homer.



> At least then i know some things are assured.


Very little is guaranteed but greatest assurance is offered by an assessed adult because, as I said, you can see what you're getting.


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

emilylp said:


> I would rescue one , if there was a puppy, say 8 weeks old and it was a deffo staff
> 
> u see i will be buying from a breeder where i can see both parents so i know its a staff.


Being able to see both parents (in the same household) would ring alarm bells for me. The best breeders go to some lengths to ensure the best pairing they can engineer. The chances that the best bitch and the best stud are both within the same household is very remote (not impossible but very unlikely) and the presence of both dam and sire would suggest that the breeder was not commited to the best pairing and was possibly trying to avoid stud fees BYB-style.

Personally I don't recommend puppies to first-time owners. So many pitfalls and so demanding. A formative period where mistakes are not easily rectified (and as a first time owner, believe me, you will make mistakes).


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> I didn't say there were papers to suit everyone (though there might be through some breed specific rescues). I said there was a dog to suit everyone. If you want a conformationally excellent, healthy SBT - there is one in rescue_ right now_.


I don't know of any rescue including SBT rescue that will give you any papers,these are not given out,the rescue usually keeps them or surrenders them back to the KC.



Johnderondon said:


> I would also point out that testing for health becomes far less important when obtaining an adult dog as you can actually _see_ what you're getting.


Really ?
In that case if you can see these diseases why do we have DNA tests ?
You can't see if a dog is a carrier by looking at it.


Johnderondon said:


> HC, L-2, phpv, etc will usually be apparent in affected adult dogs so litter screening/breeding stock screening becomes redundant. However smaller rescues may well consider undertaking any tests that were important to you in dogs that interested you (at your cost, naturally).


I won't consider a rescue at the moment,yes we do have a rescue crisis,however you can't lay that at responsible breeder's doors.That is unfair in my opinion,as is judging those who like us will be buying in a puppy within the next few months.

I also doubt that any rescue including SBT would rehome to us as I have two Staffords here,most rescue's won't take the chance.

Yes I do feel for those dogs in rescue,however the blame does not lie with good breeders who care about where their pups go,it lies with the unsuitable owner and irresponsible breeder!

By stopping good breeders breeding all you are doing is opening the floodgates for more and more unhealthy poor examples of the breed to be bred,with even more strain been put on rescue.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Johnderondon said:


> Sometimes people are refused by breeders. What happens then? Try another breeder, I suppose.
> 
> 
> Knowing how many different shelters there are and knowing how critieria varies from "Are you a God-like, perfect owner?" down to "Have you got fifty quid?" I find that difficult to understand.
> ...


I do not live in the UK actually and we only have two shelters here and neither are that big. And no UK shelter will re-home here for obvious reasons. They can't home check etc etc


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

i arent actually bothered about papers

i just want a healthy puppys when i buy it im going to get a full health check wormed anyway ,

i dont care about papers and stuff tbh.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

emilylp said:


> i arent actually bothered about papers
> 
> i just want a healthy puppys when i buy it im going to get a full health check wormed anyway ,
> 
> i dont care about papers and stuff tbh.


Be careful,
Vets can't tell you if the puppy will go on to develop the diseases within the breed,it may appear healthy then develop the conditions later on in life.All Staffords should be tested for L2/HC and screened for PHPV & PPSC.

Also be aware of the DDA,it's a huge risk buying a SBT pup without papers.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

how much does it cost to get screened for all them ? a full health check of the pup if it isnt alrady done?

and could u tell me what all them thigns mean , like diseases?

and, why is it a big problem?

if the mam and dad are both SBT and can be shown when u buy him or her 

and you know tehre thorough bred sbt , cause you can tell 
then you will have a 100% staff

why would the DDA be suspicious, cause for all they know you could have all the papers? 

papers dont make the dog, it might have no papers but be the best in the world


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

Acacia86 said:


> I do not live in the UK actually and we only have two shelters here and neither are that big. And no UK shelter will re-home here for obvious reasons. They can't home check etc etc


Your posts give a Channel Islands location. If that is so then I know of at least two independent rescues who will accept a JSPCA/GSPCA homecheck. There are others that will accept a veterinary reference when homececking is too far.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

emilylp said:


> how much does it cost to get screened for all them ? a full health check of the pup if it isnt alrady done?
> 
> and could u tell me what all them thigns mean , like diseases?
> 
> ...


I think it would cost alot more to buy a pup then get health tests done rather than buy one from health tested parents. I've not had health tests done on any of my dogs so I'm not sure about prices etc but from what I've heard it costs alot.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

hmmm , so what do these hereditery diseases do?

and do they only effect SBT?


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

emilylp said:


> how much does it cost to get screened for all them ? a full health check of the pup if it isnt alrady done?


The cost for L2 / HC DNA Testing is £67 for each test,cheaper if done together,plus vets fees for taking blood and sending it on to the AHT.Screening by an eye specialist for PHPV & PPSC is around £35.



emilylp said:


> and could u tell me what all them thigns mean , like diseases?
> 
> and, why is it a big problem?


Ruardean Staffordshire Bull Terrier's |
HEALTH ISSUES IN THE STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER

The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is by nature a robust and healthy breed. However there are a couple of hereditary health issues which you need to be aware of if you are considering buying a new puppy or planning to breed from your bitch.

1. L-2-HGA Hydroxyglutaric Aciduria

In the past few years a small number of Staffords have been diagnosed with a metabolic disorder, its clinical name is L2 hydroxyglutaric aciduria or L-2-HGA. This condition manifests itself in varied ways with affected dogs displaying behavioural changes and dementia, anxiety attacks, having full blown seizures, as well as exercise intolerance and ataxia (unsteady gait), tremors and muscular stiffness. Dogs from totally different bloodlines have been found to be sufferers and the number of affected dogs diagnosed has risen. The disorder (and a similar linked disorder D-2 HGA) is found in humans, again very rare, but nevertheless devastating for those families affected by it. The disorder has an autosomal recessive method of inheritance, which means that both parents must be carriers of the affected gene to produce affected offspring.

Through excessive hard work not only on behalf of the Animal Health Trust at Newmarket and by people submitting blood and urine samples from the families of affected animals a genetic test has been determined to identify the carriers of the gene which causes L-2-HGA.

IT IS THEREFORE ADVISABLE THAT ALL BREEDING STOCK BE SCREENED IN ORDER TO ERADICATE THIS CONDITION IN THE FUTURE.

TESTING CAN TAKE UP TO 6 WEEKS FOR RESULTS SO PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THIS DONE IN PLENTY OF TIME BEFORE YOUR PLANNED MATING.

2. HC  HEREDITARY CATARACTS.

It is known that HC is inherited by and automal recessive path (i.e. both parents must be carriers of the defective gene to produce and affected offspring). HC is a progressive condition and this means that although a puppy is not born with cataracts they will start to develop at a juvenile age. (maybe from 8 months onwards), and will progress until the dog is totally blind. This condition is bilateral which means is affects both eyes equally. Thanks to the tireless research by the Animal Health Trust in Newmarket there is a now a DNA Test for Hereditary Cataracts.

3. PHPV  PERSITENT HYPERPLASTIC PRIMARY VITREOUS

The mode of inheritance of PHPV is not so clear, but it is known that it is a congenital condition (present at birth) and that it is not progressive. This means that if a puppy is born with PHPV it can be detected by ophthalmic screening from 6 weeks of age and if it is affected, whatever the condition of the problem at that stage it will not change throughout the dogs life.

Either of the above conditions can be operated on, but it is a serious operation and can be traumatic and very expensive. It is not always covered by insurance due to the hereditary nature.

Even though the genetic test is now available for Hereditary Cataracts it is still important to screen for PHPV.

4. PPSC  POSTERIOR POLAR SUBCAPSULAR CATARACT.

This type of cataracts is found in other breeds, particularly the Labrador and Golden Retriever.
It usually remains as a small, punctuate cataract and doesnt usually lead to sight problems in these two breeds. It has been placed on schedule 3 of the BVA/KC/ISDS Eye Scheme because a number of Staffords that have been through the Scheme have been found to have this type of cataract. This type of cataract cannot be detected through litter screening. The mode of inheritance is unknown and has a variable age of onset. BREEDING STOCK SHOULD BE TESTED ANNUALLY TO DETERMINE THAT THE DOG IS CERTIFIED CLEAR AT THE TIME OF MATING.



emilylp said:


> if the mam and dad are both SBT and can be shown when u buy him or her
> 
> and you know tehre thorough bred sbt , cause you can tell
> then you will have a 100% staff
> ...


Correct papers don't make the dog,however with them you have a reliable history you can trace back.
The DDA is a piece of terrible legislation,KC Reg staffords have fallen foul of this law and if the dog shows any charactisterics of the APBT then it can be seized,the burden of proof is reversed and you have to prove that the dog is not a Pitt or it's type, and is not dangerous.This can involve the dog spending months in kennels at an undisclosed location and an expensive court case.


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> All Staffords should be tested for L2/HC and screened for PHPV & PPSC.


Actually it's just breeding stock that is tested for PPSC and that's not a guarantee either as it can be late-onset.



> Also be aware of the DDA,it's a huge risk buying a SBT pup without papers.


If a dog is 'type' then it's 'type'. Papers wont help.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> Actually it's just breeding stock that is tested for PPSC and that's not a guarantee either as it can be late-onset.


That is why it's recommended you screen every year,it's done at the same time as PHPV.



Johnderondon said:


> If a dog is 'type' then it's 'type'. Papers wont help.


It is in my experience easier to get a dog back with papers than a dog without them.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> The cost for L2 / HC DNA Testing is £67 for each test,cheaper if done together,plus vets fees for taking blood and sending it on to the AHT.Screening by an eye specialist for PHPV & PPSC is around £35.
> 
> Ruardean Staffordshire Bull Terrier's |
> HEALTH ISSUES IN THE STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER
> ...


so you need to test for all those things?

and on all of them it says both parents must be carriers, so wouldnt the breeder know if there dog was having all them things?


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2009)

emilylp said:


> so you need to test for all those things?


Good responsible breeders test for all those conditions,L2/HC only needs to be tested for once.



emilylp said:


> and on all of them it says both parents must be carriers, so wouldnt the breeder know if there dog was having all them things?


This is why we test,so we know whether the dog is Clear, Carrier, or Affected.
Without testing it's impossible to say what the staus of a dog is.


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> I don't know of any rescue including SBT rescue that will give you any papers,these are not given out,the rescue usually keeps them or surrenders them back to the KC.


Which is not to say that the dog doesn't have them, just that you wont get them. If you want the dog, you get the dog. If you want the papers, that's a different thing.



> Really ?
> In that case if you can see these diseases why do we have DNA tests ?


To give an indication pre-mating or in puppyhood of which dogs might develop the ailments. If the adult dog hasn't developed them then it's probability of being affected is vastly reduced.



> You can't see if a dog is a carrier by looking at it.


What's wrong with a carrier?



> I won't consider a rescue at the moment,yes we do have a rescue crisis,however *you can't lay that at responsible breeder's doors*.


my emphasis

Where did I do that?



> That is unfair in my opinion,as is *judging those who like us will be buying in a puppy* within the next few months.


Where did I do that, too?



> I also doubt that any rescue including SBT would rehome to us as I have two Staffords here,most rescue's won't take the chance.


You have "doubts". "Most" rescues. You're not sure and you're not including all rescues.

You want to buy. That's your choice but don't blame rescue policies for what is essentially your choice.



> By stopping good breeders breeding...


I didn't advocate that. You are arguing with someone else, or your imagination, but not me.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> Which is not to say that the dog doesn't have them, just that you wont get them. If you want the dog, you get the dog. If you want the papers, that's a different thing.


I agree,but for us it's important when we want to show.



Johnderondon said:


> To give an indication pre-mating or in puppyhood of which dogs might develop the ailments. If the adult dog hasn't developed them then it's probability of being affected is vastly reduced.


We have DNA tests so we can use Clear dogs in a breeding Programme to eventually eliminate these conditions from the breed.



Johnderondon said:


> What's wrong with a carrier?


Nothing is wrong with a Carrier,providing it is only mated to a Clear.



Johnderondon said:


> my emphasis
> 
> Where did I do that?
> 
> Where did I do that, too?


I was not referring to you,but it seems a few will try and make other's feel guilty about there choice.



Johnderondon said:


> You have "doubts". "Most" rescues. You're not sure and you're not including all rescues.
> 
> You want to buy. That's your choice but don't blame rescue policies for what is essentially your choice.


I do not blame anyone,however I do know from experience that not all rescues will home where there are other dogs at the home including SBT Rescue.We enquired about a bitch a few years back,they were not willing to home where there were other dogs at the home.



Johnderondon said:


> I didn't advocate that. You are arguing with someone else, or your imagination, but not me.


That was a general statement not aimed at anyone


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

Just to say i met a fantastic SBT on our local walk the other day, she was with a young family, she was so friendly her little tail and hips wouldn't stop Wagging/moving the whole time we were making a fuss of her, she certainly put a smile on my face for the rest of the walk


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> We have DNA tests so we can use Clear dogs in a breeding Programme to eventually eliminate these conditions from the breed.


Are you trying to eliminiate carriers from the population?



> I was not referring to you,but it seems a few will try and make other's feel guilty about there choice.


I suggest, for clarity, it would be best to make that explicit because quoting my post and then immediately making this statement suggests that you are addressing the post you have quoted.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> Are you trying to eliminiate carriers from the population?


I think it's absolutely imperative that carriers are eliminated from the population to stop the needless suffering endured by many dogs and puppies produced by mindless idiots that mate carriers to carriers.

What is so wrong with that ?

Even rescue dogs get bred, where I come from.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> Are you trying to eliminiate carriers from the population?


Of course Breeders are going to try to eliminate Carriers,not straight away but eventually we should only be breeding from Clear dogs in my opinion.
I have no problem with breeder's using a Carrier in a breeding programme as long as the subsquent litter is tested and those pups which are Carriers are endorsed, then neutered at the correct age.
L2 is a terrible condition and one which there is no cure for,it can only be managed,sometimes this isn't always possible and the dog is pts.So do we really need to be breeding from Carriers ? In my opinion No,not if we want to eliminate these conditions.



Johnderondon said:


> I suggest, for clarity, it would be best to make that explicit because quoting my post and then immediately making this statement suggests that you are addressing the post you have quoted.


I apologise for the confusion


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Of course Breeders are going to try to eliminate Carriers...


I rather expected this answer from your previous post however it is a misguidedly precipitous approach to genetic health problems (although it is one that is widespread among dog breeders).

Hydroxyglutaric aciduria (L-2-HGA) is terrible indeed but only for affected dogs. Carriers of the L2-causing version of the gene (allele) do not suffer and may well enjoy an advantage over dogs that are clear. Indeed, the continued existence of the allele despite the propensity of the affliction for early onset, adds weight to the probability that the L2 -causing allele confers some hetrozygous advantage upon carriers (similar to sickle-cell anemia in humans).

The narrowing of the gene pools has already done great harm across our breeds. Such diversity as we have left should be positively maintained until we have a better understanding of the canine genome. Whilst carrier x carrier pairings must be avoided (for all deleterious recessive alleles) we should actively encourage a percentage of carriers within breed populations lest we risk the proverbial baby in the bathwater.

Off-topic or what?



> I apologise for the confusion


Not required but gratefully accepted.

*johnderondon furiously untwisting knickers*


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> I rather expected this answer from your previous post however it is a misguidedly precipitous approach to genetic health problems (although it is one that is widespread among dog breeders).
> 
> Hydroxyglutaric aciduria (L-2-HGA) is terrible indeed but only for affected dogs. Carriers of the L2-causing version of the gene (allele) do not suffer and may well enjoy an advantage over dogs that are clear. Indeed, the continued existence of the allele despite the propensity of the affliction for early onset, adds weight to the probability that the L2 -causing allele confers some hetrozygous advantage upon carriers (similar to sickle-cell anemia in humans).
> 
> ...


Yes off topic,however a condition which is found in the SBT and relevant I think in around about way as prospective owners should be aware of these conditions.
I did say Carriers should be eliminated eventually not straight away,and as I explained it's fine to use a Carrier in a breeding programme providing the pups are tested before going to their new homes.

My dog's Sire is a Carrier for L2 however his son,(my dog) was DNA Tested by us for L2/HC and came back Clear thankfully.
I wouldn't breed from a Carrier,simply because there are good examples of the breed with the same bloodlines that are Clear.
The aim of any good breeder in my opinion is to produce good,healthy examples of the breed and to eventually breed out those conditions from the breed.

The advice of the AHT was to gradually eliminate Carriers from breeding programmes.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

i dont even know where to start looking for all these things


i dont know where to find a breeder that has done all those things, for not a ridiculous price that some people charge,

even when people advertise in the papers they say healthy mum and dad and pups have been tested

doesnt say what for though, 

id rather get the puppy screened by myself if it hasnt been done already, but then ill have a sick puppy on my hands if it does have L2 or whatever.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

Sun Local Classifieds - Search listings for Cars, Property, To Let, and more

could you tell me , if thats a good add?

has 5 generation papers?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

emilylp said:


> i dont even know where to start looking for all these things
> 
> i dont know where to find a breeder that has done all those things, for not a ridiculous price that some people charge,


In order to get a responsibly bred, healthy dog, then you will have to accept that you will have to pay a fair amount of money for it.



> even when people advertise in the papers they say healthy mum and dad and pups have been tested


That usually means they have been vaccinated, wormed and deflead. Maybe a vet has run their hands over the dogs, and found no apparent problems. If the dam and sire have been DNA tested, then the ad will state this.



> id rather get the puppy screened by myself if it hasnt been done already, but then ill have a sick puppy on my hands if it does have L2 or whatever.


Whilst you can do this, is really should be the breeders that do so. Like you state, if your dog does come back with positive results, there isnt much you can do except for accepting the problem and dealing with it.

I still dont think an SBT is an ideal first dog. Certainly not if you will be walking the dog on your own. I just dont think you would be capable of dealing with any problems or strong enough to control such a breed. Ive seen many adults struggle with them.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> Sun Local Classifieds - Search listings for Cars, Property, To Let, and more
> 
> could you tell me , if thats a good add?
> 
> has 5 generation papers?


Why not contact a few breeders on champdogs, see what they have available ? You can search I think to see who has puppies.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

hmmmm
but there a good compact short haired dog that actually look nice , i hav walked a male one before aswell.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> i dont even know where to start looking for all these things
> 
> i dont know where to find a breeder that has done all those things, for not a ridiculous price that some people charge,
> 
> ...


I would recommend you forget the online and newspaper ads, and go through one of the breed clubs.
They will usually know of good well bred litters due or available.

If you do reply to ads ask if the Parents to the pups are tested for L2/HC and screened for PHPV & PPSC.
All breeders will show you the certificates of testing or if hereditary clear will show you the KC document it will be printed on.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

if SBT arent a good first dog then what are?

i dont want anything mi-nute or yappy


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

and how much will a full teested SBT be?


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

I would expect around the £500-£600+ mark


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> and how much will a full teested SBT be?


Depend on bloodlines and where in the country they are,the average price is around £400 - £600


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Both my staffie crosses are rescues and while my bitch does have some behavioural issues (because of abuse recieved from her 1st owner) they are both wonderfully caring, loving and generous dogs. They love people and want nothing more than cuddles and snuggles! They are both a tad grumpy with other dogs but no more so than my mongrel who when younger was much more likely to attack than my staffies. I love the breed and will have a full staffie one day (rescue of course) I cannot imagine my house without at least 2 staffies to keep my bed warm and my sofa covered in dog hair!!


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> if SBT arent a good first dog then what are?
> 
> i dont want anything mi-nute or yappy


They are a good dog but I think what people are saying if you've never owned a dog before they are not an ideal first choice, like most of the Bully Breeds.


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Nicci said:


> They are a good dog but I think what people are saying if you've never owned a dog before they are not an ideal first choice, like most of the Bully Breeds.


True but a staffie cross might be a good compromise? Do you have to have a puppy? Good rescues will have assessed the dogs temperment and behavour so you know what you are taking on.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Nicci said:


> They are a good dog but I think what people are saying if you've never owned a dog before they are not an ideal first choice, like most of the Bully Breeds.


Id owned dogs and worked with them for over 10 years. NOTHING prepared me for when i rescued Oscar. Complete and utter nutter he is. Ive never had a dog thats such a free thinker.

Even at 11 (almost) he's still a handful at times, and completely hyperactive and OTT at everything.

And they ARE powerful. Id worry that a child (which the op is, i think) would have great problems controlling such a dog.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

JSR said:


> True but a staffie cross might be a good compromise? Do you have to have a puppy? Good rescues will have assessed the dogs temperment and behavour so you know what you are taking on.


I agree a nice Staffy cross would be a good start, loads in rescue


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Id owned dogs and worked with them for over 10 years. NOTHING prepared me for when i rescued Oscar. Complete and utter nutter he is. Ive never had a dog thats such a free thinker.
> 
> Even at 11 (almost) he's still a handful at times, and completely hyperactive and OTT at everything.
> 
> And they ARE powerful. Id worry that a child (which the op is, i think) would have great problems controlling such a dog.


I agree, I was reared around them (I don't think I could cope with such a highly strung breed because they are when young and can be when they are older) I don't think there was anything that wasn't chewed in my Grandparents house, teeth marks in everything, they'd slyly chew the corners of Grans coffee table when they thought she wasn't looking, they got themselves into alsorts of mischeif, I'd been knocked over by their dogs many times and was never allowed to walk them even at 16/17.

But saying that I've owned breeds just like that, so probably I could cope but their energy (which they have masses of) always put me off.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

i am actually looking for rescue now , 

my mum said it would be a good idea as they wont go through th epuppy stage as some are toilet trained

and i explained to her that it will be a lot to ajust and to train if it is 18months old and hasnt met the cat before..

if i rescue one, and its a X what if it has a pitbull in and gets taken from the DDA

or what if its aggressive cause its been abused?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Nicci said:


> I agree, I was reared around them (I don't think I could cope with such a highly strung breed because they are when young and can be when they are older) I don't think there was anything that wasn't chewed in my Grandparents house, teeth marks in everything, they'd slyly chew the corners of Grans coffee table when they thought she wasn't looking, they got themselves into alsorts of mischeif, I'd been knocked over by their dogs many times and was never allowed to walk them even at 16/17.
> 
> But saying that I've owned breeds just like that, so probably I could cope but their energy (which they have masses of) always put me off.


I was assured that Oscar would calm by the time he was 6/7. Well, he's entering his "twilight" years and that still hasnt happened.

In a way its a nice attribute. I can exercise them the same as i always have done, without any major worry of joint problems/pain, or having them knackered out (although just once would be nice).
Alfie went out for a good couple of hours yesterday (he's 10) and was running over some roughish terrain, and was up and down and all over the place, and he handled it as well as a dog half his age would have done.

I think its because they are a relatively healthy breed. Even my p!ss-poor examples


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

i want a puppy so it can get used to the cats ect ect and i know its from a good preloved home but , ill be 16 and my dad will come to walk him aswell when hes older if hes a puller

theres staffys in the paper for 200 pound that claim to be healthy , kc registered and pure staffys,

i reli dont think everyone pays 600 pound for a dog

i think most people just buy what seems to be a healthy puppy aslong as the conidtions its living in are good and the adults are healthy bla bla bla

if the parents were ill with these bad diseases and having fits then theyd know that something was up .


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

You don't have to look very far to find staffy types that are cat friendly...

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-rescue-adoption/54481-rescue-remedies-dogs-cat-friendly.html

There is absolutely no guarantee any dog bought up with cats will be friendly, I have a friend with 3 dogs all bought up from puppies with her cats and each one of them would kill the cat if it caught them! My 5 rescues all live perfectly happily with my cat and only 1 of mine I've had since a puppy.

And no rescue would rehome a dog if it had any inkling it was a pitbull cross.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

emilylp said:


> a
> 
> if the parents were ill with these bad diseases and having fits then theyd know that something was up .


Thats the problem, the dogs dont have to be showing any symptoms to be affected. They can also be carriers. If both parents are carriers then the puppies will be affected whilst the dam and sire wont be. Thats why screening is important. Not just for new owners, but for the breed as a whole. And this applies for ALL breeds.

You'll find anyone wanting to get a quality dog, from a decent breeder and not one with £££££'s in mind, then they will pay out for it.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> i reli dont think everyone pays 600 pound for a dog


Some people pay more, depending on breed. My last dog from a breeder, well it was shocking


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

it makes the thought of owning a dog more troublesome with all this H2g and what not 

no dog owner i know has gone through testing all htat and paying 600 pound for a staff, i havent even seen any advertised for that amount apart from the blue ones.

i dont care about kc registered or anything , i just want a staff

i realy dont know anyne who has screened them for it

and if they dont show any symptoms then you could have a perfectly happy dog that has it?


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> it makes the thought of owning a dog more troublesome with all this H2g and what not
> 
> no dog owner i know has gone through testing all htat and paying 600 pound for a staff, i havent even seen any advertised for that amount apart from the blue ones.
> 
> ...


But do you expect one for free ? Even at a rescue there is still going to be a donation expected from anything up to £90+ thats just off the top of my head concerning crossbreeds, pedigrees can be slightly higher in price, even at a rescue.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

emilylp said:


> .
> 
> i dont care about kc registered or anything , i just want a staff


Thats why the rescues are in such a dire state. People have jumped on this demand, and are spitting out staffie puppies left right and centre, with no thought to temperament, health, or with any concern about the future of the puppies.

Getting a staffie is easy, getting a good staffie takes time and research. Personally, i would never (again) line the pockets of people who are killing this breed. With roughly 100 SBTS being euthanised each week, i see no justification in purchasing just any old dog.

But thats just my opinion


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

not any one who breeds justbreeds to be an a**hole and just get money , some actually have loving homes, 2 lovely staffies and breed beautiuful healthy puppys

then sell them for like 200 pound becaue they know people dnt have a fortune to fork out for 600pound in this ressecion , and yeh they proabbly do want money , but so what, if there breeding good dogs for the right reason ho cares if there not selling them for dear or have them kc registered

i know id be giving i a good home!

and if it got ill id take it to the vet with pet insurance,

ive never heard any dog get L2

i dont think its a hugely common thing, and most cases they would show symptoms so the sire or the mother would show signs of it when they went for a vet check.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

Nicci said:


> But do you expect one for free ? Even at a rescue there is still going to be a donation expected from anything up to £90+ thats just off the top of my head concerning crossbreeds, pedigrees can be slightly higher in price, even at a rescue.


no id pay upto about 300 pound for the puppy itself

then it willl cost me about 144 pound for equipment and health check vaccinations and worming , coming to a total of 444 pound roughly , thats hardly cheap considering im paying for it myself.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

emilylp said:


> it makes the thought of owning a dog more troublesome with all this H2g and what not
> 
> no dog owner i know has gone through testing all htat and paying 600 pound for a staff, i havent even seen any advertised for that amount apart from the blue ones.
> 
> ...


Well if the health of the dog is too much trouble for you, maybe you should stop looking for one?

People who own dogs as pets don't need to have their dog screened every year, it only really applies if you intend on breeding from your dog. Even then, most breeders don't screen their dogs - many people breed their staffies (or any other breed for that matter!) purely because they think their dog is good looking, or it is a friendly dog - that is not a reason to breed.

If you want a well bred Stafford, you will need to search very hard and may need to travel for your pup because there are SO many irresponsible breeders out there and I can't understand why you wouldn't want to do the research to get the healthiest pup possible.

Of course, if you go down the rescue route, you are highly unlikely to get a dog which has been screened but that is the chance you take. It may develop health problems, it may not. Personally I think health screening is only important if you are going to breed, which nobody should from a rescue dog.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> not any one who breeds justbreeds to be an a**hole and just get money , some actually have loving homes, 2 lovely staffies and breed beautiuful healthy puppys
> 
> then sell them for like 200 pound becaue they know people dnt have a fortune to fork out for 600pound in this ressecion , and yeh they proabbly do want money , but so what, if there breeding good dogs for the right reason ho cares if there not selling them for dear or have them kc registered
> 
> ...


I think you will find that anyone breeding two 'pet quality staffies' is just in things for the money, these dogs are very rarely tested for anything.

L2 is becoming a very big problem, because some/most/average 'joe blogs' down the road just don't care.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

well , looks like i wont be getting a dog because i do nt have 600 -800 pound to pay for one (N)


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

emilylp said:


> no id pay upto about 300 pound for the puppy itself
> 
> then it willl cost me about 144 pound for equipment and health check vaccinations and worming , coming to a total of 444 pound roughly , thats hardly cheap considering im paying for it myself.


If you aren't getting a dog until next year would that not give you time to save more up and get a better bred dog if you don't go for a rescue? I paid £650 for Blu and saved it all up myself. I was willing to pay £1000 max for a poodle aslong as I knew it had been health tested and was from good lines. Cheeko is from a puppy farm (didn't know at the time) and isn't KC reg and he's got alot of health problems and I know now we should have read into health tests alot more but we'd always had poodles so didn't think much of it. Now I'll never get a poodle (apart from a rescue) that isn't KC reg and without health tests because I've saw the health problems. I think paying more for a dog that you know will most likely be healthy is worth it in the long run. It's not really as simple as not many dogs being affected. Your dog could easily be one of the small number that is affected by health problems.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

emilylp said:


> well , looks like i wont be getting a dog because i do nt have 600 -800 pound to pay for one (N)


All you need to do is save 

Some people save for years for their desired pet, I know as soon as I get my own place and get settled i'll be saving for my Dane 

Just don't rush into it and buy a poorly bred dog - you will only be lining the pockets of irresponsible breeders which will just make the staffie crisis worse.

Why don't you look more into rescue? They never charge daft amounts of money and you will be helping a homeless dog  and not all rescues have issues, as most people seem to think  there are a ridiculous amount of staffies and staffie crosses in rescue - there's two on my block and they are such beautiful sweet boys, I just wish someone would give them a home


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

ok i bet ive missed loads on this thread but why not get a saffie rescue?


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I think paying more for a dog that you know will most likely be healthy is worth it in the long run.


Well said.

It might be a lot of money paying £600 at once for a dog..... but which would you rather? Pay £600 and get a dog which has a healthy life and very little vets bills, or pay £150 and end up having to spend what could be thousands of pounds in vets bills for health problems and expensive medication which the dog could need for the rest of its life?

I know which i'd rather do


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Firstly, I would only recommend someone getting any breed of dog if they have the time and inclination to not only train it properly but also be prepared to look after it's health properly and if this means certain tests then that's so be it.

Regarding a staffie as a pet then I see no problem with it. I used to be very wary of this breed too and still am to some degree, but it's more to do with the owners than the breed. A friend of mine has had them for years and his dogs have always been well trained and looked after. 
The problem comes when people buy them as a status symbol... ie look how hard I am with my staffie (just one example) :cursing: they are easy enough to recognise, they'll be the owners getting pulled along the road by their dog, having no real control at all !


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

emilylp said:


> well , looks like i wont be getting a dog because i do nt have 600 -800 pound to pay for one (N)


I didnt pay a penny for Oscar, and he cost me roughly £2500 in the first 3 days i had him.

Dogs arent cheap, even with insurance. Ive given up a hell of a lot to be able to provide for both my boys, but i dont give it a second thought, as they are priceless to me.

If you really reallt want a dog, and care about the welfare of your chosen breed, then you will save and get a good healthy one, from a RESPONSIBLE breeder, and not promote the thousands of money breeders that are responsible for the deaths of thousands of staffies every year. No better than puppy farmers.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

well guys , im currently contacting a breeder who will hopefull y have some puppys in next summer for 450 pounds, i have checked and all are tested clear for L2HGA and HC.

saving is a bit of an issue when your me haha , after christmas and my birthday which is in may i should have osmwehere nerar 400pound from my mum and dad, then whatever other family members give me,i have saved so far , 17 pounds hahaha


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

emilylp said:


> well guys , im currently contacting a breeder who will hopefull y have some puppys in next summer for 450 pounds, i have checked and all are tested clear for L2HGA and HC.
> 
> saving is a bit of an issue when your me haha , after christmas and my birthday which is in may i should have osmwehere nerar 400pound from my mum and dad, then whatever other family members give me,i have saved so far , 17 pounds hahaha


I would suggest you get your parents to contact them. I dont know of any breeder that would give a child the time of day tbh.
They certainly wouldnt agree to put you on a waiting list.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

I would LOVE to rescue a dog and give it a good home BUT, what if there not tested clear for L2HGA and HC? and they dont know? Also i would want the oldest to be about 12 months no older, i reli want a puppy to have that experience


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

do all dogs get this Lg2 and what not?


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

emilylp said:


> I would LOVE to rescue a dog and give it a good home BUT, what if there not tested clear for L2HGA and HC? and they dont know? Also i would want the oldest to be about 12 months no older, i reli want a puppy to have that experience


you do get all ages in rescue i think it would defo be worth a look


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

i always think rescues would be more prone to attack i dont know why i jsut do , i know that probably isnt the case but idk


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> do all dogs get this Lg2 and what not?


No, you can get :-

Clear

Carrier

Effected.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> i always think rescues would be more prone to attack i dont know why i jsut do , i know that probably isnt the case but idk


Why on earth would you think that ?

When I've walked round rescue kennels the first dogs to greet have always been Staffords.


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

emilylp said:


> I would LOVE to rescue a dog and give it a good home BUT, what if there not tested clear for L2HGA and HC? and they dont know? Also i would want the oldest to be about 12 months no older, i reli want a puppy to have that experience


even if both sire and dam are health tested, the puppies produced may still have the health issues that the parent were tested for - its not 100%

they are thousands of staffies - puppies to adults getting destroyed every year!!! 

this site proves that. many people on this rescue site go into the 7 day pounds to take pictures of the dogs to put on the internet and beg other rescues to take them - if no rescue takes them - then they will be destroyed. 
the majority of them are young dogs 
Rescue Helpers Unite


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

maybe im not destined for a sbt LOL

do you guys think its more of an expierenced dog owners dog?

i would hate to buy one and be overruled buy him or her


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> maybe im not destined for a sbt LOL
> 
> do you guys think its more of an expierenced dog owners dog?
> 
> i would hate to buy one and be overruled buy him or her


I think they would be a difficult choice for someone who has never owned a dog before..but then again...you just might surprise yourself, you never know.

It's a tough one, as generally they are really good family dogs.

Can I just ask, why you would like a Stafford ?


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

emilylp said:


> maybe im not destined for a sbt LOL
> 
> do you guys think its more of an expierenced dog owners dog?
> 
> i would hate to buy one and be overruled buy him or her


what makes you think that?


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

yehh , ive read alot saying they are brilliant family pets, 

on tie with a sbt i would like a sprocker spaniel.(springer X cocker)

however dont know how springers or cockers are as a pet reali ,

i know they both need huge amounts of excersice which im willing to give , but i just think a sbt would be better, but as i say i cant reali afford one.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

GSDlover4ever said:


> what makes you think that?


well people have said there not a first owners dogs and they are really strong on the lead and i might not be able to control it ;/


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

my staffie is fantastic she is great with my other dogs as well i had no problems with training ect( she was naughty as a puppy) but most dogs are!
she is such a happy dog


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Emily, can I ask how old you are ? You may have said already but I've not noticed sorry.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

so is it a reallyu bad idea to buy a pup if it doesnt state the parents have been tested clear for L2HGA and HC even if they look perfectly healthy and act healthy when you are showed them?


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

emilylp said:


> well people have said there not a first owners dogs and they are really strong on the lead and i might not be able to control it ;/


mine does not pull as long as you train them, they are fine


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

shazalhasa said:


> Emily, can I ask how old you are ? You may have said already but I've not noticed sorry.


I am 15 now , by next july i will be 2 months into being 16.


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

emilylp said:


> well people have said there not a first owners dogs and they are really strong on the lead and i might not be able to control it ;/


but any dog can be strong on the lead if you don't train it properly.

i have seen people being dragged down the street with cocker spaniels as well you know 

if you put a lot into a dog - you will get so much more out of it.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

yeh , well one of my most important aims of getting a dog would not only be of course playing with it and loving it but training it properly

sit lay paw ect 
properly housetraining it , training it to walk nicely on a lead , not to jump up at everyone ect ect.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

emilylp said:


> so is it a reallyu bad idea to buy a pup if it doesnt state the parents have been tested clear for L2HGA and HC even if they look perfectly healthy and act healthy when you are showed them?


I would not buy one because i think you should only breed from dogs that have been tested but i would also get a rescue dog that would not have been tested.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

Just because a dog "looks" or "act" health does not mean it will be..I would'nt buying a staff that hasnt been health tested! If i was you


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

cav said:


> I would not buy one because i think you should only breed from dogs that have been tested but i would also get a rescue dog that would not have been tested.


hmm , lol

isnt that basicly the same

are the chances slim of both sire and the mum to be L2HGA and/ or HC positive and not show any sign , because i reli think its not vevry common atall for them not to show signs


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

If your going to go for a staff with no health tests then go to a rescue..there is hundreds waiting for homes!


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

but then they could be ill too and cots me thousands


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Personally i'd go for a rescue dog - there is such a massive number of staffies and staffie crosses in rescue, that unless you're intending to show or breed, I don't particularly see the point in buying a pup from a breeder. I don't think anyone should be breeding SBT's as pets at the moment when there are so many in rescue. And trust me - you probably won't find it too hard to find a litter of SBT puppies in rescue, they crop up quite often.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

But you would be willing to have a pup with no health tests!? Im a little confused about this whole thing..
you want a staffy, then you say you dont think you can because there not the sort of dog a first puppy ower should have!
then you ask about getting a pup from non health tested parents and say that you think they would show signs of being ill if they had problems.But then you say you wont take on a un health tested dog from a rescue because it will cost you thousands if something was to go wrong..

Is that all right or have i took it all the wrong way


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

emilylp said:


> hmm , lol
> 
> isnt that basicly the same
> 
> are the chances slim of both sire and the mum to be L2HGA and/ or HC positive and not show any sign , because i reli think its not vevry common atall for them not to show signs


my staffie is a pet only im no expert on staffies -i dont breed them!

but if i was going get one i would pay the extra as i would want a healthy one.

i use to have a rottie and she cost me thousands through bad breeding so ive learnt the hard way

but i still would rescue a staffie but would get it straight insuredif you get a rescue you are helping a dog that needs a home


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

emilylp said:


> but then they could be ill too and cots me thousands


like i said before even if the parents are health tested it is not 100% that the puppies produced wont have the thing that the parents have been tested for.

also ratehr than giving BYB money for producing un healthy dogs i would rather go to a rescue and save a life - like i said before thousands of them get destroyed every year!!!!!!


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

Here is a link to a dog called Bosco who has L2,he was bred from two CH parents,
Parbeau kennels UK Home of Staffordshire Bull Terriers & Bulldogs |

This is a very real condition with dogs from different bloodlines who are affected.
My dogs sire is a Carrier for L2.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

GSDlover4ever said:


> also ratehr than giving BYB money for producing un healthy dogs i would rather go to a rescue and save a life - like i said before thousands of them get destroyed every year!!!!!!


If the breeder health tested then its more than likely that they are not back yard breeders!


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

GSDlover4ever said:


> like i said before even if the parents are health tested it is not 100% that the puppies produced wont have the thing that the parents have been tested for.


If the Parents are tested Clear,they CAN NOT pass on the gene responsible for the condition which means the puppies will NEVER develop the condition.

CLEAR: the dog has 2 copies of the normal gene and will neither develop L-2-HGA, nor pass a copy of the L-2-HGA gene to any of its offspring.

CARRIER: the dog has one copy of the normal gene and one copy of the mutant gene that causes L-2-HGA. It will not develop L-2-HGA but will pass on the L-2-HGA gene to 50% (on average) of its offspring.

AFFECTED: the dog has two copies of the L-2-HGA mutation and is affected with L-2-HGA. It will develop L-2-HGA at some stage during its lifetime, assuming it lives to an appropriate age.

Carriers can still be bred to clear dogs. On average, 50% of such a litter will be clear and 50% carriers; there can be no affecteds produced from such a mating. Pups which will be used for breeding can themselves be DNA tested to determine whether they are clear or carrier.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

Okay , iget the point that i will need health tests,Im talking to a breeder and my parents are going to ring in december or january as required, the pups have all been tested clear for L2HGA and HC


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Being so young Emily, you will need the full support from your parents in whatever dog you decide that you want. 

Whilst you are living with your parents, I have no doubt that they will be the ones that will be buying the dogs food and probably feeding him/her, cleaning up puppy mess (puppies do pee and poo indoors whilst being trained). Vet bills are likely to be paid by them too.
Puppies/dogs take a lot of looking after, it's like having another child in the house, do you think you could cope with having a baby ? Trust me, that's what it'll be like in the early days


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

i will be buying the dogs food as i get 10 pound per week , i will also be picking up poop, we will be taking out a pet insurance for any bills.

if it pees in the house while im not in my mum will clean it , if im in , i will

its not just a quick decision i have made, i have been wanting a dog from being about 4, i will also be getting EMA 30pound per week for any treats ect ect, i will obviously be going out to , i have planned it all out.


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Can I just say how impressed I am with you Emily. You are really taking this decision seriously, you are researching as much as possible, saving your money and totally willing to take responsibility for your dog. I wish more 'adults' spent as much time and thought about getting a new dog as you have, we'd have alot less dogs dumped on rescues if they did.


I hope you find the dog of your dreams and enjoy every minute with it. Good for you.


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

JSR said:


> Can I just say how impressed I am with you Emily. You are really taking this decision seriously, you are researching as much as possible, saving your money and totally willing to take responsibility for your dog. I wish more 'adults' spent as much time and thought about getting a new dog as you have, we'd have alot less dogs dumped on rescues if they did.
> 
> I hope you find the dog of your dreams and enjoy every minute with it. Good for you.


I totally agree with this well done for doing all the research first.


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

Have you ever owned a dog before, have your parents had dogs in the past ?

I'm not trying to put you off so please don't think that, just want you to be sure that you know what you're letting yourself in for.

For a first time dog, personally I wouldn't recommend a staffie, mainly because they tend to be high energy dogs, exercise and training can be very tiresome and will need to be kept up for the whole life of the dog. In a couple of years (if not already lol) you'll be wanting to go out clubbing, staying out late and getting drunk... the last thing you'll be wanting to do early in the morning is walking your dog around 3 miles in the damp weather. 

Have you considered any other breed ? Perhaps one that wouldn't need as much work ?


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## Purplejellyfish (Jun 30, 2009)

I have a 14 week old staffie pup called Alfie...he is my first staff. I also have two elderly labs Maisie 11yrs and Jake 12 yrs. Alfie does not have papers, I guess you could say I bought him from a byb. However, he was born and raised in a family home, with children, in immaculate conditions. He was bred for temperment, and his breeder clearly loved and took great care of her 'little family'. As a result Alfie, is a confident, happy and well adjusted little puppy. He has a wonderful nature and is quick to learn. He appears healthy and robust and has never suffered from any parasitic infection.

My labradors came from a so called reputable breeder with many so called credentials. Both are kennel club registered. However, my labs were raised in barns on what really amounts to a very posh puppy farm! I would never buy puppies from such a place again but at the time I thought I was making the right choice. 

Jake, 12 years old, was very anxious as a puppy and it took months of socialisation and gentle training to build up his confidence. He was and has always remained extremely submissive. Maisie, 11 years, has suffered a life time of skin complaints which has cost a huge amount of money over the years, and she now has to take steroids permanently. Both dogs have had surgery... Maisie has had several lumps removed and developed a tumour in her womb which thankfully was caught in time, Jake had to have an eye removed due to cancer. I believe this was more than bad luck as a colleague of mine bought a puppy from the same breeder and his dog has had similar problems. 

Sorry to waffle but I guess my point is you should not generalise that all casual breeders are bad and all registered kennel club breeders are good. In our experience, this is clearly not the case.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

thats basicly what i was trying to say lol where the staffs mum and dad tested clear for L2HGA and HC


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

shazalhasa said:


> Have you ever owned a dog before, have your parents had dogs in the past ?
> 
> I'm not trying to put you off so please don't think that, just want you to be sure that you know what you're letting yourself in for.
> 
> ...


not this is first dog, mum had dogs when she was young, thing is i want a high energy dog, and yes on most likely saturday in about 3 years i will go clubbing, but 1 or 2 days out of a week going on a walk later then usual wont do any harm.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm 17 and got a puppy on Friday and it is like having a baby (not that I've had one!). You need eyes on the back of your head because they are always looking for something to do. I'm lucky Blu sleeps right through until atleast 7 but it's not easy getting up early! The only thing my mum has done since Friday with Blu is play with him. I've been around dogs all my life and this is my first puppy that is mine and not a family pet as such. I don't think getting an 8 week old puppy for your first dog is a great idea. You could be great but you need to be 100% sure you will beable to do everything for it. An older puppy that already has the basic training might be easier. I do think there is alot of younger owners who take better care of their dogs than some older people!


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

JSR said:


> Can I just say how impressed I am with you Emily. You are really taking this decision seriously, you are researching as much as possible, saving your money and totally willing to take responsibility for your dog. I wish more 'adults' spent as much time and thought about getting a new dog as you have, we'd have alot less dogs dumped on rescues if they did.
> 
> I hope you find the dog of your dreams and enjoy every minute with it. Good for you.


thankyou very much


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

i feel like alot of you are discouraging me from a puppy of 8 weeks , thats what i want a puppy i want to have to look after it , play wwith it , train it new things and watch it grow into a lovely adult dog


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

emilylp said:


> i feel like alot of you are discouraging me from a puppy of 8 weeks , thats what i want a puppy i want to have to look after it , play wwith it , train it new things and watch it grow into a lovely adult dog


How would you cope with a puppy who would cry all night and you get hardly any sleep? You might not have the energy to look after it and play with it during the day. I'm just glad I've got an easy puppy when it comes to night time! It is up to you what age you want to get but people are only offering you advice on what they have went through with puppies.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

The people discouraging you imo are the people giving you the best advice im sorry to say.
you have to look at it in the long run what will you do when your at college/work/uni full time..


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

I don't see anything wrong with her wanting a puppy. Good lord some 15 year olds have human babies so I think as Emily lives with her parents and is willing to do as much as she can a puppy will be no problem for her. Having a puppy isn't hard work as long as you put in the time and committment, I had 5 7 week old lab crosses staying over this weekend to clear up some kennel space and okay I had some cleaning to do but otherwise it was great fun! (Although thank god they've all gone to their new homes now!!) 

So what she might want to go out occasionally? You all telling me you never go out because you've got dogs? There is nothing nicer than watching a puppy grow and become a reflection of your love and attention and I personally don't see why just because Emily is 15 she can't have that joy. So she might move away from home and the dog might have to either go with her or stay with her parents, but who knows what will happen in all our lives so why discourage her now? 

As I said she could very easily walk out today and buy a puppy from Joe Blogs but she's researching and asking questions and from what I've read she's going to make a bloody good dog owner.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

dont forget to have a look at a few rescue centers 

rember they have pups in as well


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## Purplejellyfish (Jun 30, 2009)

emilylp said:


> thats basicly what i was trying to say lol where the staffs mum and dad tested clear for L2HGA and HC


No, on this I have taken a chance. I have no intention of breeding him, when he is old enough he will be neutered.

I cannot recommend staffies enough. Alfie is hard work...but that is because he is a puppy, not because he is a staff! All puppies are a full time job and require a lot of effort and commitment, if you want a happy and good dog. As long as you accept that when deciding to get a puppy, you should have no problems.


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> The advice of the AHT was to gradually eliminate Carriers from breeding programmes.


That surprises and alarms me.

I have written to them for clarification.


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

cav said:


> dont forget to have a look at a few rescue centers
> 
> rember they have pups in as well


 Of course!!!!


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> That surprises and alarms me.
> 
> I have written to them for clarification.


Under most circumstances, there will be a much greater number of carriers than affected animals in a population. It is important to eliminate such carriers from a breeding population since they represent a hidden reservoir of the disease that can produce affected dogs at any time.
Animal Welfare, Cat, Dog, Horse, Charity, Donations, Animal Health Trust


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

Untested breeder-supplied vs. untested rescue



emilylp said:


> isnt that basicly the same


No. If you source form a rescue then you are not enriching (and thereby encouraging) backyard breeding.



emilylp said:


> but then they could be ill too and cots me thousands


insurance


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> It is important to eliminate such carriers from a breeding population since they represent a hidden reservoir of the disease that can produce affected dogs at any time.
> Animal Welfare, Cat, Dog, Horse, Charity, Donations, Animal Health Trust


I see no logic in that (I appreciate that these are not your own words but a quote form the AHT site).

It is impossible to eliminate carriers without testing. Once tested it is just as easy to ensure no carrier x carrier pairings as it is to ensure only clear pairings.

To say that tested dogs could produce affected dogs "at any time" assumes that people who have troubled themselves to test then can't be bothered to ensure the pairing is not with two carriers. That's non-sensical.


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

JSR said:


> I don't see anything wrong with her wanting a puppy.


Puppies are substantially more demanding than adults. Emily is very wise to begin her research now and, in so doing, is already ahead of many novice owners but however much research she does nothing will prepare her for the reality of dog ownership. It is wise to make the first experience as managable as possible and that means an assessed adult.

Puppies have a critical period. Lessons learned, or missed, during this period can lead to lifelong issues and problems. Better that a pup has an experienced handler to guide them through this period than a novice who is learning as they go.



> Good lord some 15 year olds have human babies


Yes, some 15 year olds, infatuated with the notion of babies, make some very poor decisions. That's not a reason to get a pup either.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> I see no logic in that (I appreciate that these are not your own words but a quote form the AHT site).
> 
> It is impossible to eliminate carriers without testing. Once tested it is just as easy to ensure no carrier x carrier pairings as it is to ensure only clear pairings.
> 
> To say that tested dogs could produce affected dogs "at any time" assumes that people who have troubled themselves to test then can't be bothered to ensure the pairing is not with two carriers. That's non-sensical.


I agree,

But then I think Breeders tend to think about the future too,I see no harm in using a Carrier in a breeding programme,however there will be Carrier offspring which could then fall into the wrong hands and be bred to another Carrier which will produce Affected pups.

I wouldn't use a Carrier but I do know of Breeder's who have,they also did everything by the book and tested ALL pups within the litter.
As I stated earlier my dog's sire is a Carrier, and his owner had him castrated as soon as he knew,It's a shame as he is a cracking dog,however he has also produced some super dogs who are Clear.

I think the way to go is to gradually eliminate Carriers by breeding to Clear and then continuing to breed from the offspring which is Clear.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> How would you cope with a puppy who would cry all night and you get hardly any sleep? You might not have the energy to look after it and play with it during the day. I'm just glad I've got an easy puppy when it comes to night time! It is up to you what age you want to get but people are only offering you advice on what they have went through with puppies.


how does anyone cope witha puppy crying all night? ill be 16 im not a little kid who dont know anything, and your supposed to ignore the crys unless there for the toilet, takint ehm out when they cry just associates crying with going out...and i might not have the energy? ill be 16 not 98..


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

you lot think i mthe only 16 year old that will be getting a puppy no , or that im the only person who is getting a puppy as a first time owner no, most people get them as puppys , if you got an adult you still wouldnt be prepared for a puppy ! the only way to be perpared for a puppy is to get a puppy!

i dont want an adult dog to start off with , i want a PUPPY, there only hard if you make them hard! put in the work and theyll be fine!

and yeh i will go out some days if i dint go out just cause i had a dog that would be sad!

i can have a life and still give a dog one too for goodness sake!


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> If the breeder health tested then its more than likely that they are not back yard breeders!


yes i know that is normally the case - however i have new of people in the pass getting health tests done on their dogs, also showing them. however the dogs are living in squaller and in the end the SSPCA take all of the dogs off them and they get banned for a year for animal cruelty!!!!


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

emilylp said:


> how does anyone cope witha puppy crying all night? ill be 16 im not a little kid who dont know anything, and your supposed to ignore the crys unless there for the toilet, takint ehm out when they cry just associates crying with going out...and i might not have the energy? ill be 16 not 98..


I know your not a little kid. Like I said earlier I am 17  If your kept up all night with a puppy crying I don't think you would get much sleep. That affects anyone any age when they don't get much sleep. I don't think you should be getting so anoyed about it. People are only offering their advice so you don't need to give any attitude back to them if it's not what you want to hear! If you want a puppy, get a puppy just if things go wrong don't say no one warned you about puppies.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

if something goes wrong? it could go rong with an adult dog! more likely actually because its not use to anything ,ill be 16 when i get one , your 17 

1 year difference , not much, do you think that most people getting 1st time dogs get adults? no 

most get puppys, id say 89 percent get puppys, 

you got a puppy?

and not all of them cry all night if you introduce them to the cage properly !

and if you leave them toys to play with.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

emilylp said:


> if something goes wrong? it could go rong with an adult dog! more likely actually because its not use to anything ,ill be 16 when i get one , your 17
> 
> 1 year difference , not much, do you think that most people getting 1st time dogs get adults? no
> 
> ...


I've been around dogs since the day I was born. I've been a junior handler with my oldest dog. Yes I just got a puppy on Friday as I said earlier. Seems you don't read alot of replies. My puppy sleeps all night in a crate. I'm lucky though because he doesn't wake for the toilet either. I've done everything for him and it is alot of hard work. If it wasn't for the fact I wanted a show dog and obediance again then yes I would have got an adult rescue poodle. I've already went through the puppy stages with our oldest dog and trained him so I'd helped raise a puppy before. This time I'm on my own but I was more than prepared for it.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

Well , ive been around dogs which my family members own

i feeel im prepared for a puppy

some nuggits get a puppy who havent researched at all , i have making me prepared then other adults even.

i dont want an adult dog , i want and im going to get a puppy.

and alot of dogs sleep all night through...whos to say mine wont?


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## Johnderondon (Jul 6, 2009)

emilylp said:


> i want a PUPPY, there only hard if you make them hard! put in the work and theyll be fine!


Yes, you're right, I'm wrong. Good luck. Byebye.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> Yes, you're right, I'm wrong. Good luck. Byebye.


Ive been meaning to ask (cant be bothered to read through all your posts ) what sort of dogs do you have?


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> Yes, you're right, I'm wrong. Good luck. Byebye.


you helped not one bit

only dis encouraged me to get a puppy :S

i dont think you realise your not the only one whos puppy dunt cry on the night!


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> Yes, you're right, I'm wrong. Good luck. Byebye.


My same thought


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Johnderondon said:


> Yes, you're right, I'm wrong. Good luck. Byebye.





CheekoAndCo said:


> My same thought


Hang on i have read this thread from the start....and have seen other threads the op has made......dont knock the op she is doing as much research as possible.....months in advance which is more than many many people do......i for one think its great Emily is doing so much research......she has come here for advice.......EVERYONE has to start somewhere.....its far better that she asks questions than rushes into buying any old dog......she is trying to learn!!!!!
Emily puppy's are hard work.....but you will be 16yrs old...not 6yrs old and you will be more than capable of looking after a pup.....i am sure your fully aware of the time,effort,commitment and money a pup/dog can cost.....
Im 33 yrs old and got my first sbt 7 months ago.....i have to admit Poppy is a handfull but she is a fantastic dog too.....good luck Emily and good on you for all your research......


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Emily, I think you need to calm down a little bit. Nobody is trying to discourage you - they are being realistic. You can't expect everyone to say "woohoo go and get a puppy what a great idea" because you have to see that there can be bad sides to owning pups as well as the good sides.

Training a puppy can be much easier said than done, and you do need to be reminded of that.... as does anyone.

I think you need to take on both sides of the advice, both for and against you getting a pup and you need to weigh it up and really think about it, not just going all Veruca Salt on us and demanding that you get a puppy 

You need to think about it properly, and like I said - go through the good and bad points of owning a puppy vs the good and bad points of owning an adult dog. Owning an adult dog first time often makes more sense than owning a puppy because you learn aspects of adult dog behaviour that you can then use when you do get a puppy - it is much easier to train a puppy to be a well-rounded adult dog if you know first-hand how an adult dog should behave. So yes, owning an adult dog first can make more sense than going straight for a pup, especially in a breed like the SBT which can be a little stubborn when they want to be


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

Thankyou  And yes im very aware of the training socialisation adn time they need put into them  

and you 2 people saying your right im wrong sarcasticly , what makes you think your right?

if your capable of a pup so am i!


thanks for the lovely comment


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Heyy, i was thinking earlyer about Staffies and trying to think how to get some of them out of the kennels. Couldnt the police use them ? would they make good sniffer dogs ? or general function dogs, or would they be too small to be "attack/chase" dogs ?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

emilylp said:


> Thankyou  And yes im very aware of the training socialisation adn time they need put into them
> 
> and you 2 people saying your right im wrong sarcasticly , what makes you think your right?
> 
> ...


How involved are your parents in all the research?

Obviously when you go to college/uni, they will have to take responsibility.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Captain.Charisma said:


> Heyy, i was thinking earlyer about Staffies and trying to think how to get some of them out of the kennels. Couldnt the police use them ? would they make good sniffer dogs ? or general function dogs, or would they be too small to be "attack/chase" dogs ?


In the US they use pitbulls. No reason not to use an SBT, but they tend to stick to breeds that have been bred for the specific task.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

emilylp said:


> Thankyou  And yes im very aware of the training socialisation adn time they need put into them
> 
> and you 2 people saying your right im wrong sarcasticly , what makes you think your right?
> 
> ...


I didn't say I was 100% right  I've already said there's a difference from always being around dogs and getting a pup as a teenager and just getting one when you have never owned a dog before. If you want a puppy then I know no one will stop you because you'll do what you want. I just have a bad feeling you will go for a poorly bred one that you would must likely get in a rescue. That's when you decide on a breed  Not everyone is going to be on your side so you need to take the good with the bad. People are only trying to help.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> In the US they use pitbulls. No reason not to use an SBT, but they tend to stick to breeds that have been bred for the specific task.


I never knew that the police used pitbulls in the US.....i learn something everyday on here......


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

Verbatim said:


> Emily, I think you need to calm down a little bit. Nobody is trying to discourage you - they are being realistic. You can't expect everyone to say "woohoo go and get a puppy what a great idea" because you have to see that there can be bad sides to owning pups as well as the good sides.
> 
> Training a puppy can be much easier said than done, and you do need to be reminded of that.... as does anyone.
> 
> ...


I am perfectly calm , havent been rude not once.

And okay then, getting a puppy ALLOWS you to make the adult dog what you want it to be.

Good points of owning a puppy - have a fantastic experience of seeing YOUR little pup grow from a tiny thing to an adult dog.

Being able to train it the way you want and the things you want to train it.

Being able to socialize with pets and other dogs.

Taking on a task with the pup like house training and having the proudness of completing that goal.

Having a friend for life and experience baby juvenile adult and senior stages of a dog and knowing how to care for each stage.

Having an adult dog

May not be socialized with cats and be agressive towards them.

may be harder to house train

dont get the experience of each stage.

May be unruly if it hasnt had the training before hand.

Put it this way , id rather try and teach a puppy to walk with the lead properly , or get used to having baths then a big strong dog.

puppys take alot of work , i know that im not a baby , but im prepared for it and know of course there is bad things like having to et up in the night and take him in teh garden , but im willing to have that responsibilty , because after its all been done , i will have the time to say , i mayed my dog like that , ive accomplished fully training him and it reali payed off

and thats my thoughts on the situation.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> I never knew that the police used pitbulls in the US.....i learn something everyday on here......


I dont think they are widely used, but they are employed by the police. Seen a search and rescue one, and a drug sniffer one as well.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> How involved are your parents in all the research?
> 
> Obviously when you go to college/uni, they will have to take responsibility.


everything im learning , im informing them. on training socialisation , puppy classes, foods, grooming ect ect. oh and , the course im taking for animal management is only day time , i will be back in the afternoon , from any time realy some days 3 - 4 or 6 oclock

somedays i will be at home all day.

ive made sure i will have plenty of time with it


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> In the US they use pitbulls. No reason not to use an SBT, but they tend to stick to breeds that have been bred for the specific task.


True, i guess for me the only catch of using a Staffie would be there "public image", and there might be some who har, if the police starting useing them.

But having saying that, they are smallish dogs, so can be easily picked up and handled. They upkeep wouldnt be too high ? they are very powerful for the size, they are agile and quick... Surely they can be used in some way ? 
Theres sooo many in the kennels too, surely some of them could be used ?

Wether for a chase dog, general police dog , or a sniffer dog.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Captain.Charisma said:


> True, i guess for me the only catch of using a Staffie would be there "public image", and there might be some who har, if the police starting useing them.
> 
> But having saying that, they are smallish dogs, so can be easily picked up and handled. They upkeep wouldnt be too high ? they are very powerful for the size, they are agile and quick... Surely they can be used in some way ?
> Theres sooo many in the kennels too, surely some of them could be used ?
> ...


Im sure there is a reason they dont use them, same as why they dont use Rotties, Dobe's etc.

No idea what it is though.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> I dont think they are widely used, but they are employed by the police. Seen a search and rescue one, and a drug sniffer one as well.


I find it strange that here pitbulls are banned yet in the US they are not....and in the US they seem quite a common breed....


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

emilylp said:


> everything im learning , im informing them. on training socialisation , puppy classes, foods, grooming ect ect.


Are they doing any research themselves? They will be the ones legally liable for the dog.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

yeh , we all read things on teh internet ect ect 

my dad is also asking people who he knows about them ect


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## Purplejellyfish (Jun 30, 2009)

Captain.Charisma said:


> Heyy, i was thinking earlyer about Staffies and trying to think how to get some of them out of the kennels. Couldnt the police use them ? would they make good sniffer dogs ? or general function dogs, or would they be too small to be "attack/chase" dogs ?


Staffies would make useless attack dogs, for the same reason they are rubbish guard dogs...they love people too much! :smilewinkgrin:


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Im sure there is a reason they dont use them, same as why they dont use Rotties, Dobe's etc.
> 
> No idea what it is though.


In the "send in the Dogs" thread, ive sent a link which i read earlyer , about Rottis being used increasingly in Scotland. Thanks to them being as trainable as GSD, and being more intimidateing ato but the wind up suspects more, with them being more noticeable. I think they said they would be good to use in policeing football games ect.. As i am sure a hooligan would rather have a GSD, than Rotti chomping down on him 

but thats away from my point in this thread, i think theres wayyy to many Staffies in the kennels. Surely they can be used somehow ? maybe for search and rescue if not police then ?


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Purplejellyfish said:


> Staffies would make useless attack dogs, for the same reason they are rubbish guard dogs...they love people too much! :smilewinkgrin:


   .............


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Purplejellyfish said:


> Staffies would make useless attack dogs, for the same reason they are rubbish guard dogs...they love people too much! :smilewinkgrin:


haha bless them , havent Pits been used a sniffer dogs though ? surley that could transfer to some Staffies ? save a few of there lives


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Captain.Charisma said:


> In the "send in the Dogs" thread, ive sent a link which i read earlyer , about Rottis being used increasingly in Scotland. Thanks to them being as trainable as GSD, and being more intimidateing ato but the wind up suspects more, with them being more noticeable. I think they said they would be good to use in policeing football games ect.. As i am sure a hooligan would rather have a GSD, than Rotti chomping down on him
> 
> but thats away from my point in this thread, i think theres wayyy to many Staffies in the kennels. Surely they can be used somehow ? maybe for search and rescue if not police then ?


I 100% agree there are way too many staff's in rescue and sadly many healthy ones are pts on a weekly basis......the only way to reduce the amount is to some how stop all the bad breeders churning them out...but how you do this i dont have a clue.......


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> I find it strange that here pitbulls are banned yet in the US they are not....and in the US they seem quite a common breed....


In some States and Countys i think they are banned.

They have terrible dog fighting problems as well. As always its the ignorant owners.

Some APBT are even used as therapy dogs.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

FOR PITS' SAKE // Search & Rescue


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> In some States and Countys i think they are banned.
> 
> They have terrible dog fighting problems as well. As always its the ignorant owners.
> 
> Some APBT are even used as therapy dogs.


Have to admit i have only really heard bad things about pitbulls.....mind you its getting the same way with sbt's......do you think Nonnie the sbt will ever be a banned breed here in the UK.......


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

i asked this question , but there too popular i think now ,, 6th most popular breed in the uk and climbing

the ration of how many dogs there is to how many dogs attack is probs a 1000-1


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> Have to admit i have only really heard bad things about pitbulls.....mind you its getting the same way with sbt's......do you think Nonnie the sbt will ever be a banned breed here in the UK.......


I hope not 

I dont think they will, they are far too popular, and serious attacks by them are rare.

I think the Government realise how stupid the DDA is, and how it hasnt changed the situation or population of certain breeds, but wont do away with it for fear of public out cry.

What does need to happen is for someone to do something about the sheer numbers of SBT's being bred, and the numptys that are owning them.


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

i was reading the dda , it doesnt go by breed but by type 
how ridiculous is that


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> FOR PITS' SAKE // Search & Rescue


thanks for the link...makes you see pitbulls in a very different way....especailly the animal assisted therapy pitbulls.......


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

emilylp said:


> i was reading the dda , it doesnt go by breed but by type
> how ridiculous is that


It does go by breed,four breeds are illegal in the uk,
In the mainland Great Britain, four breeds are currently subject to BSL under the Dangerous Dogs Act (DDA):

* The Japanese Tosa
* The Pit Bull Terrier
* The Dogo Argentino
* Fila Braziliero

We must, however, also be aware that 'types' of these dogs are also affected. This means that your dog doesn't have to be a Pit Bull or Tosa to be subject to the DDA: it simply has display physical and behavioural characteristics similar to those displayed in breeds covered by the act.
Deed Not Breed - What is Breed Specific Legislation


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> thanks for the link...makes you see pitbulls in a very different way....especailly the animal assisted therapy pitbulls.......


Pet Pitbull - Positive Press

I like this one too


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> FOR PITS' SAKE // Search & Rescue


Good find  

So if pits can be used for search and rescue in the states, i think we could deffinatly find use for some Staffies over here as search and rescue dogs. They have the same energy, agility, drive, and will to please.

Of course they should use recuse Staffies, save them rearing them up from young and more importantly saveing the dogs life !


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Pet Pitbull - Positive Press
> 
> I like this one too


thanks again for another good link.......


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

anyway at the issue at hand, would a Bcollie be a good dog if a sbt isnt?


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Johnderondon said:


> Your posts give a Channel Islands location. If that is so then I know of at least two independent rescues who will accept a JSPCA/GSPCA homecheck. There are others that will accept a veterinary reference when homececking is too far.


I can't rescue from here let alone the UK! I do not fill the right criteria. I have a 3yr old, an ESS, 4 cats, a rabbit and rodents. Local shelters won't let me rescue.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

emilylp said:


> anyway at the issue at hand, would a Bcollie be a good dog if a sbt isnt?


sorry Emily for highjacking your thread......my brother has two border collies...both rescue's lovely dogs but.....they never ever stop.....i have never known dogs with so much energy.....i have to admit i could not cope with them.....i am sure someone will be able to give you more info though on border collies......


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

emilylp said:


> anyway at the issue at hand, would a Bcollie be a good dog if a sbt isnt?


what intrests you ina border collie?

personally i wouldn't get a BC - basically becasue they aren't they aren't the dog for me - they have way to much energy, they always have to me mentally stimulated - if not they will learn a lot of bad habbits and can be bored really easily.

i don't thinka BC if a good dog for a first time dog owner.

does anybody know a web site where you answer questions and actually find what breed of dog is best for your personal sircumstances?


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

thanks for the replys

well my uncle and auntie and a cousin and my best friend all have BCS

i love there energy but along with that are immaculate looking and are really good to train , extremely clever, good on a lead aswell, ive walked played and groomed my best friends BC and i love it , they are really amazing dogs. 

im aware they like to exercise a helllll of alot , but theyre not neccessarily whine for us when were not in as they lay and wait and in the mean time entertain themselves by playing with there toys, they are a great dog from what ive seen 

they are also my dads all time favourite dog , and although my mum isnt too inclined to dogs (she likes them but not asmuch as me lol) she loves BC


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

I like Border Collies  they demand a lot of exercise but they are soooo intelligent


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

yehh they are beaut


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## Alli and Trixy (Aug 10, 2009)

I had 2 STB and brought them up with my daughter, they were great with children(sadly my ex got custody of them lol).
I would of got another but i wanted a smaller dog so opted for a shih tzu x


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

I think you need to consider that while your keen for high energy now that your life is going to be changing over the next few years and you will have much less spare time available and so you parents may need to get involved. It could turn out that you need to get your own place within the dogs life and struggle to find a pets allowed place and require your parents to keep the dog. I'd think about whether your parents would be able & happy to give the dog exercise required if anything happens which means your not able to.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

personally i dont like BC. They are prone to a lot of behaviour problems beause they are working dogs not pets, they need to be doing somthing almost constantly, they are too easy to trin so there is no challenge and i hate it when people think they are trainers and have only trained BCs they are practically born trained. i want something with a bit more personallity from my dogs, a bit of stuborness, a cheeky streak and a challenge. No offece to BC owners i can see why people like them but they really arent for me or for a lot of other people that get them just because they are "intellegent" then ruin the dog. Also i know not all BCs are the same but the ones i have worked with have all been very similar


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## Captain.Charisma (May 24, 2009)

I am really close to my grans border collie, i think they are an amazing breed. Shes really alert, has bags of plenty, colourful, shes quite noisy tho  but having saying that shes very clever and does listen to us.

I think they would make a good first dog, purley because there intelligance makes them easy to train, and also they are a nice size for many fist time owners. Big enough to fell the dog offers some protection, but also small enough to be able to control, in the majority of cases


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

Personally i think BC's need too much stimulation mentally & physically to make a good first dog. Its also easy to accidently train the wrong things especially when your a novice owner. 

Most breeds i'm sure are fairly easy to train basic obediance type stuff sit/stay/down/wait/heel etc. I have greyhounds which are not renowned for being a trainable breed but we passed the KC bronze class fairly easily, unfortunately i've not been able to take them to the silver classes but there was a grey who'd passed gold with the club so it can be done.


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm not a bc fan but they do make great fun dogs if you have time to give them the attention? I have alot of friends who do fly ball and agility and it's a fantastic social event as well as great fun for dog and handler. I do find it amusing people would recommend a BC as a first dog over a SBT!! Personally my staffie's are lazy easy going and extreamly easy to train (food food food) , ok they are stubborn and can be tetchy with other dogs but still I find them easy. While BC's (obviously not all but in my experience) are high energy extreamly intelligent and demanding, and I would never have one even though I'm an experienced owner.

I do wish people would not be so judgmental because of Emily's age, at 15 I had 2 of my own dogs both of which were well trained and extreamly well cared for. Emily doesn't live alone, her parents are part of this process but the dog will be her's to care for and train and I think by being negative to her questions and research is uncalled for. People are making out that raising a puppy is like raising the Titanic!! It's not hard, in fact it's extreamly easy but people make it harder than it need be by creating problems that don't exsist. Time, patience, understanding and a good sense of humour is all it takes, and some people at 50 don't have those qualities but I think Emily has shown them already. 

You go for your dream Emily and don't let anyone tell you that you can't.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2009)

I think we need to look at the bigger picture,most good breeder's of Staffords will not sell to those under 25 yrs old for obvious reasons.

Whilst I agree that it's good Emily is doing her research etc,I still have my doubts,my son is nearly 18 years old and he is not allowed to walk our dogs on his own.These are my kids that have grown up with Staffords and have been taught how to handle them from an early age.

When fully mature, Staffords are strong powerful dogs,I have my doubts that a 15 or 16 year old would be able to fully control a sticky situation with other dogs.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

emilylp said:


> anyway at the issue at hand, would a Bcollie be a good dog if a sbt isnt?


Personally as a first time owner i wouldn't get a border collie, they need stimulation nearly all the time, so won't do good left alone for too long and need lots of energy using walks. maybe 2-3 1 hour walkss a day 
Why not get a toy breed?
Like a shih tzu or a cavalier king charles?


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

i wouldnt get a BC 

to be honest i have only ever known nipping ones, the only one i know who is brilliant has a huge amount of exercise he was wonderful. 
My neighbour has one and all she does is nip my daughter if we are outside and to be honest it puts me off the breed and annoys the living crap out of me.

My first dog was a rough collie cross he was brilliant very soft and such a sweet heart, springers are also high on our list!

I dont think there isnt any perfect first time dog as it depends on your needs and likes. Im not keen on small dogs so i wouldnt ever get one unless it was a border terrier  

Our first family dog is a springer x malamute perfect for us very active but also lazy and laid back lol


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

JSR said:


> I'm not a bc fan but they do make great fun dogs if you have time to give them the attention? I have alot of friends who do fly ball and agility and it's a fantastic social event as well as great fun for dog and handler. I do find it amusing people would recommend a BC as a first dog over a SBT!! Personally my staffie's are lazy easy going and extreamly easy to train (food food food) , ok they are stubborn and can be tetchy with other dogs but still I find them easy. While BC's (obviously not all but in my experience) are high energy extreamly intelligent and demanding, and I would never have one even though I'm an experienced owner.
> 
> I do wish people would not be so judgmental because of Emily's age, at 15 I had 2 of my own dogs both of which were well trained and extreamly well cared for. Emily doesn't live alone, her parents are part of this process but the dog will be her's to care for and train and I think by being negative to her questions and research is uncalled for. People are making out that raising a puppy is like raising the Titanic!! It's not hard, in fact it's extreamly easy but people make it harder than it need be by creating problems that don't exsist. Time, patience, understanding and a good sense of humour is all it takes, and some people at 50 don't have those qualities but I think Emily has shown them already.
> 
> You go for your dream Emily and don't let anyone tell you that you can't.


great post......


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I've had a collie, and thats probably why i dont like them anymore.

Ive also had my boys attack by collies. I just dont trust them (no offence to those that own them) they fly out of nowhere, nip and run off. They are too much for most pet homes, and ive seen some horrendous behavioural problems in under stimulated BC's.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

I only really know my brothers two bordie collies....and i can honestly say i couldnt cope with them......they just never stop.....they need hours and hours of exercise...but even then they come home..and still want to run around...and play......


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> I only really know my brothers two bordie collies....and i can honestly say i couldnt cope with them......they just never stop.....they need hours and hours of exercise...but even then they come home..and still want to run around...and play......


Ours was an ex obedience dog. We lived on a farm and he was out all day. He still never stopped.

We had to give him up when he started trying to attack the horses at the livery yard. He went on to savage a baby deer to death, and turned really aggressive. He was PTS at just 4 years of age.

I have problems here every year when we have an agility event up the road. Ill be walking mine and they will run up barking and yapping in an aggressive manner, in a pack. Its very intimidating, and i think a BC is the only dog Alfie would attack first and ask questions later. He was very badly mauled at just 4 months of age. No provocation or warning. I just find they dont behave like most other breeds. Their origins are far too instilled in them


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Have to agree Nonnie my pack seem to have problems with BC's too! I walk with a friend who has one and they are fine with her (but I've seen her nip at kids feet too!!) but any BC they don't know I have to get them all back even Sidney or I'll have a problem!! Must be something about them other dogs find threatening?


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> I've had a collie, and thats probably why i dont like them anymore.
> 
> Ive also had my boys attack by collies. I just dont trust them (no offence to those that own them) they fly out of nowhere, nip and run off. They are too much for most pet homes, and ive seen some horrendous behavioural problems in under stimulated BC's.


We got a puppy collie before we got Cheeko because we thought we would try another breed. Took it to training etc and all it wanted to do was nip and bite kids. I couldn't go out walks with it because it just wanted to bite me all the time. Ended up taking him back to the breeder because nothing seemed enough to calm him down. He was an older puppy aswell so I dred to think what he would have been like at 8 weeks. In the end the breeder kept him because a few others got him and returned him so it wasn't really fair on him. Some people here have collies and never walk them so I really don't know how they cope.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

JSR said:


> Have to agree Nonnie my pack seem to have problems with BC's too! I walk with a friend who has one and they are fine with her (but I've seen her nip at kids feet too!!) but any BC they don't know I have to get them all back even Sidney or I'll have a problem!! Must be something about them other dogs find threatening?


I often wonder if they think Alfies a sheep. He is white and fat afterall 
I think they are unpredictable in their behavioours. they dont interact with other dogs in a normal fashion, so are often misread. They go into herding mode and this confuses other dogs.

I dont know what it is with collies. I have met some really nice ones, but for the most part ive found them uninterested in people, and rather obsessive about other things.

They do well in the right home and environment, but often end up with the wrong type of person, and they suffer for it.


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Haa didn't think about that! They must think Sidney is a grey sheep too!!!


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Ok, I've been missing for a couple of days but can I just say one thing for staffies. Our friend and neighbour has two, both rescues. Millie is 5 they had her two yrs ago and Rosie is 1 she arrived 4 mths ago both soft as **** Millie was very unsocial toward Arnie at first but with careful work they now play together, Grandmonster can get Rosie to do anything and everything far better than anyone else (shes just turned 5) imho this breed is no different to any other if they are handled correctly from the day they walk into your house virtually regardless of background (if too bad they wouldnt be up for rehoming) there are few problems providing you are willing to work with the dog. A dog is a dog, you can have just as many problems with a chihuahua as a rottie/staffie/GSD if not handled right (yes some have bigger teeth but the're still dogs), staffies are wonderful pets, these two are not the only staffies that my boy plays with, the emphasis should be on socialisation from day one with any breed for it not to be nasty toward other dogs. And I'll just add it was quite funny to see my boy put the two staffies in their place in the garden the other day. Respect to the spaniel!


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## emilylp (Jul 31, 2009)

Hey all , ive been reading up about Bc and it says that they can misunderstand things to be sheep LOL such as little white fluffy dogs and will try to herd them.

Ive never heard of a biting one , but its obviously possible as it can happen with any breed.

I think the problem is that some people get them without knowing how demandend they are on training and they need alot of work with excercising ect.


and cheekoandco sorry to here your bad experience with collies, must have been a bad puppy!


My uncle has a BC, but its the most well trained thing ever no fuss not even when we first met him ,i guess its just the dog you get tbh , my dad loves them (his fave dog) and thats what he wants to get, so theres no doubt when im not in he would be walking it and jogging with him ect ect, we would do things like go to the beach and let him in water and give him a really good workout if it ment 4 hours so be it, ive heard they need morning tea time and a night time walk (run) but they can get more tired out with mind games just in the home like hiding things and letting them find them ect ect.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

I have a sbt and he is the best dog ever, he was a rescue got him at 7 weeks old and he its 5 now, between 1 and 2 he was hard work but all the training paid off in the end, and hes fab with my daughter that is now 10.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

archielee said:


> I have a sbt and he is the best dog ever, he was a rescue got him at 7 weeks old and he its 5 now, between 1 and 2 he was hard work but all the training paid off in the end, and hes fab with my daughter that is now 10.


i have a 7month old sbt....any tips on how to stop her yapping at everyone and everything......


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I can only speak on a personal basis, but since a multitude of dogs pass through our hands, I hope my view of SBT's are just.

I can honestly say, hand on heart, that we have NEVER had experience of a bad tempered Staffie. Quite the contrary, they usually make wonderful family pets. I wish the same could be said for some of the owners!

Its no wonder the media see this breed as the thugs of the dog world when they are paraded through streets in buckles and other regalia, often associated with dog fighting. Hence any attacks involving Staffies are often seized upon by the media, and so the hype continues.

My only criticism of this breed, is that they can be a little full on with other dogs. But hey, all breeds have their quirks, and Staffies are no exception. In the right hands they make wonderful pets


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

Nina said:


> My only criticism of this breed, is that they can be a little full on with other dogs. But hey, all breeds have their quirks, and Staffies are no exception. In the right hands they make wonderful pets


Your right in the right hands they do make wonderful pets, unfortunately the Quirk as you call it with staffies being a little full on with other dogs can cost these other dogs their life's. I honestly believe that they are not a first time owners dog.

Terri


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## Purplejellyfish (Jun 30, 2009)

Kinski said:


> Your right in the right hands they do make wonderful pets, unfortunately the Quirk as you call it with staffies being a little full on with other dogs can cost these other dogs their life's. I honestly believe that they are not a first time owners dog.
> 
> Terri


I think things need to be put into perspective here. In the area where I live staffies are a very popular breed...they every where, owned by people from all 'walks' of life. I do not recall any incidents where a dog has been killed or maimed buy a staffie. And you can gaurantee if there was, the press would have a field day and we would all know about it.

The only incident I have experienced with a dangerous dog was a few years ago when out walking my labrador. He was attacked...by another labrador, resulting in a nasty puncture wound requiring vet treatment.

At the end of the day staffies are what they are...dogs! They are not some kind of monster that needs taming. They require the same loving care, attention and training as any other breed of dog.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Purplejellyfish said:


> I think things need to be put into perspective here. In the area where I live staffies are a very popular breed...they every where, owned by people from all 'walks' of life. I do not recall any incidents where a dog has been killed or maimed buy a staffie. And you can gaurantee if there was, the press would have a field day and we would all know about it.
> 
> The only incident I have experienced with a dangerous dog was a few years ago when out walking my labrador. He was attacked...by another labrador, resulting in a nasty puncture wound requiring vet treatment.
> 
> At the end of the day staffies are what they are...dogs! They are not some kind of monster that needs taming. They require the same loving care, attention and training as any other breed of dog.


Theres a saying thats very apt for the SBT "they won't start a fight, but they WILL finish it".

I dont think they are an overly aggressive dog, neither of mine are, but they are quick to be defensive. If another dog shows aggression or snaps at them, the large majority will act violently. Not always, but if and when they do, the person in charge of that dog needs to be fully capable of dealing with a very powerful and determined dog. Most teenagers, and even a lot of adults, are just physically and emotionally unable to deal with them.


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