# My book on Introduction to Dog Showing



## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Just an update to this really. 

The more I look into it the more I find that there is not a good author active work on dog showing for the newcomer in the UK. But please feel free to contradict me! . There's no Idiot's guide for example. 

The websites have bits of info, but as I'm trying to research I'm finding it hard to just google something and come up with a comprehensive answer. 

I've therefore decided that I will do this properly, and produce a reference book for people who's breeder's have suggested they show their pup, or for the pet owner who wants to try their hand. I'll also be doing a cut down version as a website for people who like to get their info online. 

I've today ordered a copy of Showing Regs from the KC! 

Thanks for the help so far - one suggestion has been for people to write something about their breed. It would be lovely if anyone was prepared to give me some info about how they got into their breed/showing etc. and of course at a later point I'll be calling for pics! Full credit with kennel names or whatever will be included, so if you think you can make this book more readable with real stories I'd love to hear from you. 

I may be contacting the Idiots' guide people, but they need a lot more info to commission it and take three months to respond. Otherwise I might go down the route of self publication on Amazon - which has been known to have a lot of success! 

I'm lucky that I'm able to be working full time on this at present. 

Just letting you know what I'm up to. I feel that sometimes a beginner struggling to find out and understand info is better placed than someone who's been doing it for years, and glosses over things they know by heart.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...dog+showing++uk&rh=n:266239,k:dog+showing++uk


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Ok, clever clogs! 

I'll have a look at these, but the ones I looked at when I first started did not give me the answers I wanted. And I bought a few, believe me.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...dog+showing++uk&rh=n:266239,k:dog+showing++uk


Can you tell me which one of these you'd recommend to a person new to showing? So I can see if I'm wasting my time?


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I can't point you in the direction of "an ideal book" - well apart from the ones held by club show secretaries - and even then - they can be open to interpretation.

To give you an example - if a dog is 12 months on the first day of the show, he is still deemed to be a puppy - if you enter online through Fosse Data or Higham-press, the exhibitor will be presented with the relevant eligible age related classes - whereas in contrast at open shows - I've seen this argued against by club secretaries to the point they've reduced the exhibitor to tears - but indeed - they are still pups - same when they reach 18 months and then 2 years (Junior and Yearling). 

====================

The word "special" in front of any class can make the eligibility for it completely different - for example - we have a "special graduate class" at many breed Champ shows - this is judging the dog - but handlers must be 16 and under - but those rules could quite as easily vary from society to society.

Special classes at Champ shows are not Crufts qualifiers except at Crufts itself where all class winners automatically qualify for the following year - even in special puppy and special junior / yearling.

======================

Crufts qualifications at CH shows vary between stud band groups - Premier Open shows Best of Breeds qualify for Crufts but only in specified breeds and where there are at least 5 classes for the breed. 

Limit shows - you have to be a member - you can win every class at the show and it won't have any impact for your eligibility for classes at Open and Champ shows. You can also enter your dog for every class for which it is eligible - but don't have to enter the breed classes. 

Some Limit shows - they won't award Best of Breed for one breed class - others do. 

=====================-

The unbeaten rule is one that gets a lot of people - if a dog comes second in a class and is unbeaten by any other dog, then it can challenge for Reserve Best of Breed against the other class winners (should the judge wish to call it back into the ring - sometimes they don't - it's not always an automatic right) - a puppy can come 4th in a graduate class and be awarded, or challenge for Best puppy. 

Junior Warrant points can only be awarded if there are three dogs present in the class - but if there isn't - and there are three classes and said dog wins Best of Breed, it can claim a point for BOB - but it can't claim for class wins AND best of breed - so if the classes are 3,2,2 and it gets BOB - the dog will still only get one JW Point. 

Withdrawal from further competition is another one that confuses people - some believe you can withdraw from breed classes (when you can't if you want to challenge for BOB - you need to win all your breed classes you entered) - but you can withdraw from the AV classes and go forward to the group or Best in Show (my friend did this the other day on my advice - the judge and Steward had to consult the book to check for accuracy).

You can also enter a subsequent class to one you've missed - but if you win, you can't challenge for Best of Breed / go forward to the group etc 

In Scotland - at some shows where there are no puppy classes - Best Puppy will only be awarded within each group for the pup winning the AVNSC puppy class - and this seems to be spilling over into other UK areas. 
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I'm not trying to be pedantic or awkward - but show secretaries may well have to consult their "bible" on more than one occasion during a show to answer exhibitors queries - i.e. very few people (if any) have all the answers -and even then - some rules are still open to interpretation - but to challenge anything at a show, an exhibitor has to pay for an enquiry with the KC. 

Even the way dogs are presented to the judge varies from breed to breed including free standing (and different ways of free standing - I always tell one of my girls she isn't a GSD) to stacked to facing the judge. 

To add to that - you sometimes have to factor in a judge's personal taste. 

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If you are going to do a book (I wish you the best of luck) - there is a minefield to work through and a lot of hoops to jump through - you will need to either aim it at a single breed / breed group / stud band and / or keep it very generic because there are so many things which aren't cast in stone, or as clear cut as we would like to think. 

I would recommend getting hold of a KC show book (I think they call it the "red book" but will check) because you need to be able to validate what you write - otherwise, you can almost guarantee that a reader will interpret something as cast in stone - when it might be inaccurate for their breed / the type of show / or the rules changed since publication. 

and to top it all - all the other countries in the world (including Ireland) following different rules 

Sorry - you probably hate me now


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

First find your publisher (unless it is a vanity print) and then convince them why they should publish a book by an "unknown" in the field............................ you will need LOADS of photos to make it attractive to buyers and there is a lot out there already


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

swarthy said:


> I can't point you in the direction of "an ideal book" - well apart from the ones held by club show secretaries - and even then - they can be open to interpretation.
> 
> To give you an example - if a dog is 12 months on the first day of the show, he is still deemed to be a puppy - if you enter online through Fosse Data or Higham-press, the exhibitor will be presented with the relevant eligible age related classes - whereas in contrast at open shows - I've seen this argued against by club secretaries to the point they've reduced the exhibitor to tears - but indeed - they are still pups - same when they reach 18 months and then 2 years (Junior and Yearling).
> 
> ...


Of course I don't hate you!

But that's the kind of thing I've been finding out and am trying to sort through! I've ordered the showing regs from the KC to check that what I'm putting is right.

I'm only doing it for the UK (which will be in the title) with just a reference that its different in other countries. I will be keeping it fairly generic as it is directed towards the beginner, and will be directing them to other sources to find the detail for their breeds.

I love the unbeaten rule - it's a bit like knowing the offside rule in football I suppose!


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> First find your publisher (unless it is a vanity print) and then convince them why they should publish a book by an "unknown" in the field............................ you will need LOADS of photos to make it attractive to buyers and there is a lot out there already


Yes, that's what I'll be doing. But if that fails then there's always e-publishing.

The other option is to give up before I start as it's going to be difficult - and that's not me!!

I've based all my websites on many things simple for beginners and have had success there, so don't see why that shouldn't be the case here!

I can but try.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> Of course I don't hate you!
> 
> But that's the kind of thing I've been finding out and am trying to sort through! I've ordered the showing regs from the KC to check that what I'm putting is right.
> 
> ...


A lot of people who show in the UK show in Ireland too as they can make up dual champs it's also good to know as some breeds not recognised by the KC are by the IKC  and if your a beginner in Northern Ireland shows here up North are either KC or IKC so even though we are part if the UK we have KC & IKC shows


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## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

Hi Bessie 

I'm an author so if you need help on that side of things let me know. You have m FB so feel free to message me 

Nothing to say that even if there are books like this you can't do one 

I used to take my Golden Retriever puppy to local companion shows when I was 8. 

About 9 years later, we had to have our dog put down. 

A year later, we got two JRT puppies. I enjoyed taking them to fun shows and Scruffts. I even got invited to and went on BBC Radio London's "Barking At The Moon" to talk about them. I still have the clip somewhere LOL

I started agility wih my dogs when they were 18 months old. 

They will be five in February 2014. 

At the beginning of 2012, I started thinking about getting a dog to show in conformation and do agility, if even for fun, with. Throughout 2012 and the beginning of 2013, I did my research on different breeds. I went to Windsor Champ Show in 2012 for the first time to have a look at one breed. But my mother thought they were too big for us.

I was looking for a low-grooming, not overly popular breed. Of course most importantly it had to fit into my life and get on well with my current dogs.

I spent 14 months trying to get my mum to agree. I researched, joined breed-specific forums, arranged to meet owners, did everything I could. It wasn't as it is with most who want a dog that they won't be able to look after the dog and leave it up to the parents, and my mum knew that.

In Feb 2013, I looked into getting Crufts tickets for the toy day in order to meet the latest breed I was interested in, the Papillon. I hadn't been to Crufts before. My mum said she was going to surprise me with tickets but since I was looking into it already she didn't need to.

We arrived, one of the first cars, at 8.30 and didn't leave until twelve hours later. The majority of the time was spent sitting with one particular woman who was kind enough to talk us through the classes and what the judge was doing. 

After Crufts, I was set on the Papillon. Mum was holding her cards annoyingly close to her chest. I looked up the breed clubs, contacted them and also contacted show breeders.

On the 18th of March 2013, I received a reply from one of the breeders I had emailed. We emailed back and forth many times a day.

On 23rd March 2013, we visited the breeder. We stayed three hours.

On 1st April 2013, the breeder's brought the puppy to my house to do a home check. Another three hours later and they left him with me.

Dexter was a few days off of six months when we got him.

Feel free to ask questions if you like. I'm not too good on general saying about a topic but good at answers.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Meezey said:


> A lot of people who show in the UK show in Ireland too as they can make up dual champs it's also good to know as some breeds not recognised by the KC are by the IKC  and if your a beginner in Northern Ireland shows here up North are either KC or IKC so even though we are part if the UK we have KC & IKC shows


Not that I have the money (or energy) to get to any part of Ireland atm - but that is really interesting to know - quite a few of our Scottish Exhibitors show in the North and in Ireland - but it's really interesting to know that you have both types of shows.

Someone said that it costs about £10 to register your dog with the IKC to be allowed to enter them - is that correct?

=========================


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

swarthy said:


> Not that I have the money (or energy) to get to any part of Ireland atm - but that is really interesting to know - quite a few of our Scottish Exhibitors show in the North and in Ireland - but it's really interesting to know that you have both types of shows.
> 
> Someone said that it costs about £10 to register your dog with the IKC to be allowed to enter them - is that correct?
> 
> =========================


It's about 25 euro to register your dog with IKC and then you have to pay about 12 euro to become a member of the IKC yourself so a bit more expensive.

We will only travel as for as Dublin for shows down south.

But most of our shows up here in the North are ICK shows, Bangor & Down is an IKC show,Banbridge, Portadown they mostly tend to be all breed Champ shows, our main KC show is the Belfast Champ Show


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Meezey said:


> It's about 25 euro to register your dog with IKC and then you have to pay about 12 euro to become a member of the IKC yourself so a bit more expensive.
> 
> We will only travel as for as Dublin for shows down south.
> 
> But most of our shows up here in the North are ICK shows, Bangor & Down is an IKC show,Banbridge, Portadown they mostly tend to be all breed Champ shows, our main KC show is the Belfast Champ Show


Isn't there a "circuit" of shows that some people do over the summer? one day perhaps 

I've never really looked at the travelling distances for the Belfast shows (we have a breed CH show there as well) - a lot of the Scottish exhibitors go over from Stranraer

I don't know what the driving distances are like from Rosslare up to Belfast - it would be nice to get back onto the mainland and just have a short journey home rather than a short journey in Ireland and then a long journey this side (if that makes any sense.

Many thanks for the info


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

swarthy said:


> Isn't there a "circuit" of shows that some people do over the summer? one day perhaps
> 
> I've never really looked at the travelling distances for the Belfast shows (we have a breed CH show there as well) - a lot of the Scottish exhibitors go over from Stranraer
> 
> ...


There is a "circuit" we are going to maybe do it next year, but also book a weeks holiday down there, so it's about 6/7 shows over a period of 5 days  Champs can be made in a week  Rosslare to Belfast is about 3 hours. There is no Stranraer any more moved up the road about and all out of Cairnryan to Belfast, once you get off the ferry this side you are about 5 mins from the Belfast. You can also do Holyhead to Dublin. Your welcome


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## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

Yeah, we have a family reunion in Ireland next year so may tie it in with some dog shows


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Kicksforkills said:


> Yeah, we have a family reunion in Ireland next year so may tie it in with some dog shows


They are good shows, they are run with FCI rules mind so in some breeds judging can be different.

I like them for a reason and as you know I'm no the one who shows, OH is, but the IKC use a lot of over seas judges, so I do think that you know the judge is judging the dog on it's merit alone. 

Some links for you if your interested.

Show dates and registrations:
Shows

Dog Shows | Irish Kennel Club

registration:

You'll need the OS1 form 
Application and Registration Forms | Irish Kennel Club

and IKC membership

Associate Membership | Irish Kennel Club

I'm sure you know they have group numbers opposed to names, and it's sometimes a bit strange the way they group them lol

And of course the awards and grading are different too 

Sorry for taking over our thread BessieDog :blush:


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Don't be sorry - it's all really interesting! Will just have to persuade the OH over the water. We went to Ireland with a screaming toddler and didn't really get the Irish welcome. He hasn't wanted to go back!!


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

There are already a fair few books for beginners to showing ....go onto Amazon and search using 'dog showing' to see what's already out there


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Bijou said:


> There are already a fair few books for beginners to showing ....go onto Amazon and search using 'dog showing' to see what's already out there


Always room for one more!


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## Kicksforkills (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks Meezy, very handy.

Not sure when the reunion is


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> Don't be sorry - it's all really interesting! Will just have to persuade the OH over the water. We went to Ireland with a screaming toddler and didn't really get the Irish welcome. He hasn't wanted to go back!!


lol it's a very changed place both sides, but still always say we have the friendliest people!  as a Scot the OH is slowly getting used to us lol


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Meezey said:


> lol it's a very changed place both sides, but still always say we have the friendliest people!  as a Scot the OH is slowly getting used to us lol


I've been to Belfast a couple of times on business and liked it so much - we booked a long weekend there (leisure)

Unfortunately, I had an unexpected trip to Oz just before it - got back into the UK Tues Morn and flew out to Belfast on the Fri - so didn't really get as much out of it as I would have liked as I was still battling jetlag

I was really impressed with the place and the people were lovely

I also managed to get to Dublin once on a coach trip - after many years of yearning to get there - I can't explain why - but I was a tad disappointed

My daughter went there on a 21st birthday weekend and had a ball though lol

The north for me every time - although it would be nice to show on a different circuit with some different faces (probably not that many though as the Isle of Mann people who on the mainland and over there and so do many of our Scottish exhibitors - and of course a lot of people come over from the whole of the country for the summer shows and for judging

Sorry Bessiedog - Way OT - it would be just nice to have a change - one day


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

i always think the more books on a subject the better! especially if you have a different writing style than the others out there...

i doubt i'm ever going to show toy breeds tbh, but would love to have a go with my next dog in utility, so a few more books to keep me busy while waiting on her would be lovely!



Meezey said:


> lol it's a very changed place both sides, but still always say we have the friendliest people!  as a Scot the OH is slowly getting used to us lol


tell that to victoria square!  
oj!!

it would be great seeing more exhibitors and judges here- the few shows i've been to everyone knows each other and it's very high school lunch room at times  (with the favorite people being picked over the better dog quite a few times!) it's almost put me off tbh.

but any time anyone is going to an NI show feel free to let me know- I'll get the coffees in and you can be the commentary! 

ETA- looking again on amazon, a lot of those books (if not the majority) are all 10 years old+... have things not changed a fair bit in that time?


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

kodakkuki said:


> i always think the more books on a subject the better! especially if you have a different writing style than the others out there...


I think what others might be saying is that as I'm a beginner myself it's a bit of a cheek to write a book about the subject. But I reckon I know the questions that beginners will want answered (well, a lot of them at least!), which experts might have forgotten they ever didn't know the answer too!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> I think what others might be saying is that as I'm a beginner myself it's a bit of a cheek to write a book about the subject. But I reckon I know the questions that beginners will want answered (well, a lot of them at least!), which experts might have forgotten they ever didn't know the answer too!


Think you the best person to be writing it, who better than a beginner


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

kodakkuki said:


> i always think the more books on a subject the better! especially if you have a different writing style than the others out there...
> 
> i doubt i'm ever going to show toy breeds tbh, but would love to have a go with my next dog in utility, so a few more books to keep me busy while waiting on her would be lovely!
> 
> ...


Shhhh about that 

There is a Open Show on the 7th Dec.. Can't remember where lol


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