# Goldfish help please



## Sparkle22

I am buying my 4 year old a 54 litre fish tank for Christmas, it's a jewel korall 60 goldfish one.

It's not being bought for real fish, it's for robo fish that he is going mad for but as he's asked about real fish a few times I want one big enough that I can add real fish to at a later date if he wants. 

I have kept goldfish before, I want a long lived fish so tropicals like tetras and bettas are out.

How many can I keep in 54 litres?

I had 3 as a child, a common and 2 shubunkins; the slender comet type.
They were all won at a school fete and lived very long healthy lives, I think my tank was 40 litres, they got rehomed to a lady with a pond after a few years as they grew so big. 
I didn't have filters or air stones or anyhing back then, I used to have to clean their tank out completely once a week. 

I am reading a lot of conflicting advice, some saying I can keep 1 in 25 litres others saying I need 150 litres for one! 

How many can I really keep in 54 litres? 
Just one? 
And will it be happy without a friend?


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## labradrk

I wouldn't keep any goldfish in a tank that small. 

If you want cold water but something a bit 'different' that is not a goldfish, why not have a small group of Paradise fish? they look really nice.

You'll still need a filter though and to cycle the tank (Google it ) prior to adding the fish though. Meaning you'll have to set it up several weeks before Christmas.


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## NaomiM

Agreed.

If you're set on goldfish, you'll need to get at least a 70l tank for one fancy goldfish (and obviously bigger still if you want more than one). Commons, comets and shubunkins are really pond fish as they need even more space.

Goldfish are very messy fish, and grow pretty big (the little ones you used to see in bowls had been stunted due to unsuitable living conditions, resulting in a painful and premature death). Nowadays they're not that hardy either.

I think 54l would be too small for a group of paradise fish either, personally. A group of white cloud mountain minnows would be a better option for coldwater - you can get them in normal or gold colourations, they can live 5-8 years, and are easy to care for. Or zebra danios, or a mixture of both minnows and danios.

And not all tropicals are short-lived - bloodfin tetra, for example, can live for 10+ years, and corys and loaches can live for 10-15 years if properly cared for.

Whatever you decide, doing a full fishless cycle beforehand is essential, as larbadrk said. There's a good guide to this here: Tropical Fish Forums UK - Setting up your new Aquarium


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## blitzens mum

i would go for the danio's and minnows too, they are easy to keep and entertaining to watch 
to make it more interesting you could add some shrimps


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## Phoenix24

I've been setting up a temperate (cool water) tank and found a surprising array of fishies that are suitable (though not sure about the longevity of them, but easily looked up). Of those that are suitable for 54L... the smaller danios and the white clouds absolutely. There's a few species of ricefish too (Japanese in particular), some cory species (panda and peppered for example) though you must have a sand or other smooth/gentle substate to protect their barbels from damage. There's a few tetra species that are comfortable at lower temps too, but you will still need a heater to make sure the temp. doesn't drop any lower. The green fire tetra can go down to 20C, as can the black widow tetra (though 70L is the recommended minimum tank size for these). Apparently even neon tetras can manage as low as 21C, though I wouldn't keep them that low personally.

Obviously there are many more tropical and subtropical fish species to choose from that are small than the cool water species. Again i'm not sure about longevity, but my very first tropical fish included a small group of cherry barbs, the remaining two females of which are still going strong nearly 5 years later - and that's despite all my mistakes along the way.

If you want to get small cichlids i'd go for one or a pair of german/blue german/neon rams (they even have an orange variety now of the species!). They don't get too big and you can mix them in a community with other peaceful fish (e.g. small tetras and corys). You will need a lot of filtration to keep any cichlid species, as like goldfish they are very 'messy' fish (ie produce lots of waste) so you need a filter twice rated than the size of tank. However, you don't want too much flow!

There's also some small gourami species that make interesting centre piece fish for a small aquarium. The dwarf gourami (best kept on its own imo, even a pair can fight) like the rams likes a gentle pace of life and comes in a couple of colour varieties. I have the powder blue form: absolutely gorgeous. Or you could get a small group of sparkling gourami - tiny things best kept with other small, gentle species.

So I guess what you need to decide on first is what temperature you want to keep the tank at (cold, temperate, sub-tropical, tropical), and what pH your water is (acid/neutral/alkaline), as they both determine what fish will be suitable. 

Many fish will last a good few years if looked after correctly. If the conditions aren't right they will die within a few weeks usually!

But definitely, definitely, do not get any kind of goldfish in a tank of that size. Even 70L is only ok for a small (juvenile) goldfish for a very short time. The minimum tank size for a fancy (round-bodied) goldfish is more like 300L if you want it to grow to full size and live its full lifespan (15 odd years). Anything less and you are going to have a goldfish suffering from internal disorders (malformation of the intestines/twisting and blockage of intestines, swim bladder issues) caused by stunting (basically the insides of the fish are trying to keep on growing but the outside of the fish doesn't because the tank isn't big enough, hence why people mistakenly think fish only grow to the size of the tank). And that's not to mention the monster filtration you need to clean up all that waste!

I have made so many mistakes over tank sizes/filtration and dead fish along the way that my loft is full of tanks and my mum is going spare. I just upgraded my 70L (in reality only 60L) to a 100L just so that I could get some very smart temperate fish called rainbow shiners, which cost quite a bit so I didn't want to put them in something that would cause them trouble! My last goldfish spent about 8 months in that 60L and was having so many problems I put him in the pond and vowed never again.


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## Fishyfins

Yeah, just to echo what everyone has said, 54l is a tad on the small side for even the smallest of goldies. you would need 70-100l for one fancy, and 200+ if you want a standard like a comet or something. plus they like to live in groups, so....

I would go with smaller temperate fish such as danios or white clouds 

and as said, make sure you do a full fishless cycle before you add any fish to the tank. this can take 3-4 weeks or longer, so you may wanna start sooner rather than later!


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## aloevera

I think I may have the unpopular answer here, but I had 3 goldfish, just normal ones, I think one was half shubunkin ? In a 20 Litre tank. They lived very healthy lives, I think the reason for them passing was that we moved house, as after that they all died within months of each other, the stress or something must have triggered something  

Either way, at the end of the day anythings better than the amount of fish that are kept in the petshop tanks!


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