# Child rapist murdered by lags - your views



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Lags disembowel child rapist in his cell | The Sun |News

personally I think these offenders have contributed greatly to society!
but spect there will be some banging on about human rights!


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DT said:


> Lags disembowel child rapist in his cell | The Sun |News
> 
> personally I think these offenders have contributed greatly to society!
> but spect there will be some banging on about human rights!


Totally agree! and would have also saved the tax payer 550 per day as it costs a fortune to keep these @rseholes locked away pluss the hundreds of thousands they would have spend on hiding his identity and moving him when released!

Never mind a bloody longer sentence they should send all the child rapists to them :thumbup:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Totally agree! and would have also saved the tax payer 550 per day as it costs a fortune to keep these @rseholes locked away pluss the hundreds of thousands they would have spend on hiding his identity and moving him when released!
> 
> Never mind a bloody longer sentence they should send all the child rapists to them :thumbup:


OR! the other option could be that we cease protecting these slimeballs! i'e no longer hide their ID's whilst inside and certainly no change of identity when released! :et their time inside be hard! 
Llive by the sword - die by the sword! if you like!


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I think they should be put to good use - experimentation. After all, the scientists would get a much more accurate result and it would save millions of innocent animals, who have harmed no one, whilst these low lifes carry on getting fed three times a day.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DT said:


> OR! the other option could be that we cease protecting these slimeballs! i'e no longer hide their ID's whilst inside and certainly no change of identity when released! :et their time inside be hard!
> Llive by the sword - die by the sword! if you like!


Oh you couldnt possibly do that to these poor souls they dont deserve that!

I tell ya i would gladly dispose of a child rapist, they destroy lives..i dont care who says otherwise until they have seen it first hand they have no idea..and its not just one persons life they destroy its a domino effect! they deserve to die in the worst possibe way known to man!


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

im sorry but i dont agree. 
you're probably gonna both shoot me down for this but i dont care
no, i dont think it is a loss to society but i think there are better ways people like this can be 'dealt with' say and yes some people really do have problems, people just tar them all with the same brush and then get on one that people use that as an excuse. im not saying there is an excuse or that one should even be made but for them to kill him like that...?

and now you two are practically saying they were right and then practically saying that the guys who murdered him were in the right which makes the crimes they were in for less serious than child rape?


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

metame said:


> im sorry but i dont agree.
> you're probably gonna both shoot me down for this but i dont care
> no, i dont think it is a loss to society but i think there are better ways people like this can be 'dealt with' say and yes some people really do have problems, people just tar them all with the same brush and then get on one that people use that as an excuse. im not saying there is an excuse or that one should even be made but for them to kill him like that...?
> 
> and now you two are practically saying they were right and then practically saying that the guys who murdered him were in the right which makes the crimes they were in for less serious than child rape?


Yeah lets spend millions on rehab and let them abuse other kids..i dont buy it myself once a child molester always a child molester


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

i didnt say that either and i didnt say i was disagreeing with that
he has a history as was in the article, whether it was true or not, and it said nothing about earlier interventions. 
and i do believe that people *can* change. not always and not always in certain circumstances or the 'right' circumstances. 

but the way you are saying it he deserved to die and like that which means that you are putting child rape as a higher crime than any other crime because it destroys lives and has a domino effect? all crime does that, rape, child rape, murder. 

then you have to categorise each eithin each category of you're going to do that. 

so child rape... by a stranger, a friend, a family member... a parent... 

keep categorising...

age, how/why it happened.
the girl in the article allegedly went to his house for money for cigarettes and alcohol.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

metame said:


> i didnt say that either and i didnt say i was disagreeing with that
> he has a history as was in the article, whether it was true or not, and it said nothing about earlier interventions.
> and i do believe that people *can* change. not always and not always in certain circumstances or the 'right' circumstances.
> 
> ...


i dont care about their past....abuse a child....you should die.....hope he died a painfull death!


----------



## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

I have family who work in the prison service... They have told me the abuse they have to suffer from these child abusers..
They will whisper filth at the officers telling them what they will do to his children when they get out...I wont go into detail its too disturbing

The officers cannot respond if they do they will be sacked..They have to call these creatures 'sir' because of human rights..



This particular 'newspaper 'is well known for printing exaggerated stories but the truth remains that in a world thats overcrowded and in a country plauged by recession is this really where we should be spending money? .


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

albert 1970 said:


> i dont care about their past....abuse a child....you should die.....hope he died a painfull death!


jump on the bandwagon, buddy.

*hands out rotten tomatoes and bricks for people to throw at me*


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

metame said:


> jump on the bandwagon, buddy.
> 
> *hands out rotten tomatoes and bricks for people to throw at me*


not at all...im sorry cant stand loony left wing attitudes in tis country...its ruined it......esterday i had a joke taken off here,and warned......pathetic!:mad2:


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

albert 1970 said:


> not at all...im sorry cant stand loony left wing attitudes in tis country...its ruined it......esterday i had a joke taken off here,and warned......pathetic!:mad2:


thats ok, i dont do people following the crowd/jump on the bandwagon, people with sticks up their bums, people with logs in their eyes, ignorant people or people throwing stones, whether blind or not


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

put it this way if that was my daughter in the story
i wouldnt be loosing any sleep over it thats for sure


----------



## Pomegranate (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm torn on this. 

Do I think anyone should be murdered like that? No. 
Do I think his crime made it okay to murder him like that? No. 
Do I have a better idea? ... No.


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

i just want a K-Pax society and people like you really aren't gonna let it happen 

(apart from maybe Pom!)


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

axl said:


> put it this way if that was my daughter in the story
> i wouldnt be loosing any sleep over it thats for sure


i would. i'd be wondering where i was when she was there.

if i had any morals or conscience anyway.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

metame said:


> i just want a K-Pax society and people like you really aren't gonna let it happen
> 
> (apart from maybe Pom!)


the anarchy on K-PAX is a non-destructive, non-violent and peaceful one; it's a self-harmonizing, ordered anarchy
this would never happen
its called the human race and having difference of opinions surely


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

metame said:


> i didnt say that either and i didnt say i was disagreeing with that
> he has a history as was in the article, whether it was true or not, and it said nothing about earlier interventions.
> and i do believe that people *can* change. not always and not always in certain circumstances or the 'right' circumstances.
> 
> ...


There is no reason for a child to be raped under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES! 
why should they have a chance to change after they have destroyed lives?



metame said:


> thats ok, i dont do people following the crowd/jump on the bandwagon, people with sticks up their bums, people with logs in their eyes, ignorant people or people throwing stones, whether blind or not


I think thats very rude..theres no need to call people ignorant or even suggest it.
Do you know first hand how these people destroy the lives of their victims? No amount of jail time is good enough for this kind of filth!


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

metame said:


> i would. i'd be wondering where i was when she was there.
> 
> if i had any morals or conscience anyway.


but im afraid i dont have tags on my kids i can not know where they will be 24hrs of every day i would hope mine have the sense not to go to a flat in this way, and im sure mine wouldnt..
but this poor girl did, and many do in other situations some as we are well aware are walking home from school; and this happens to them, how would you stop that?


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

the only good rapist is a dead one!my concern is for the poor victims,whos lives have been shattered.


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

harley bear said:


> There is no reason for a child to be raped under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
> why should they have a chance to change after they have destroyed lives?
> 
> I think thats very rude..theres no need to call people ignorant or even suggest it.
> Do you know first hand how these people destroy the lives of their victims? No amount of jail time is good enough for this kind of filth!


i wasnt calling anyone ignorant?
and yes, i do.



axl said:


> but im afraid i dont have tags on my kids i can not know where they will be 24hrs of every day i would hope mine have the sense not to go to a flat in this way, and im sure mine wouldnt..
> but this poor girl did, and many do in other situations some as we are well aware are walking home from school; and this happens to them, how would you stop that?


you cant, you answered that already in your previous reply. and i wasnt on about k-pax in regards to that anyhow. i was on about people taking responsibility.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

metame said:


> i wasnt calling anyone ignorant?
> and yes, i do.
> 
> you cant, you answered that already in your previous reply. and i wasnt on about k-pax in regards to that anyhow. i was on about people taking responsibility.


ah well this is what makes the world go round a difference of opinion...
right now my cousin is saying why didnt i pick him up why didnt he call..... when the real question should be why was he skateboarding on the road.. anyways thats a different story
each to their own i say... thats why we call them opinions


----------



## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

How can them murdering him be ok ?
Im sorry but yeh he did a awfull awfull thing
But saying yeh its ok for lags to murder him is right?
In my view its not ok for them to do it they commited murder that is a crime 
No matter who it is murder is murder


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

LolaBoo said:


> How can them murdering him be ok ?
> Im sorry but yeh he did a awfull awfull thing
> But saying yeh its ok for lags to murder him is right?
> In my view its not ok for them to do it they commited murder that is a crime
> No matter who it is murder is murder


they were in there for murder, but obviously, murder doesnt destroy lives :yesnod:


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Sorry guys but I agree with Metame.

I have been inside Franklands and its a very old building, conditions arent good etc etc. 

I have been in to visit a prisoner and I have also been there to work, so seen things from both sides, as it were. I met one the most famous child murderers alive at the time.

Franklands houses some very nasty, evil, dangerous prisoners, no doubt about it.

The prisoners who murdered this guy, will no doubt be using the excuse he was a child rapist simply to excuse the fact they wanted to kill someone - pick on the rapist - society will applaud them. The simple fact remains, these prisoners are out and out criminals and have commited some terrible crimes themselves. To those that say well done - put yourself in that prison, and really really think about it - could you honestly fashion a home-made lethal weapon and stab someone in the eye in cold blood and continue to hurt and main them until dead? Even if they were a child abuser?? Could you? Really? I couldnt.

In my eyes, two wrongs do not make a right by any means.

I have been raped and abused in my past - do I want the guy brutally murdered? No, I dont.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> Sorry guys but I agree with Metame.
> 
> I have been inside Franklands and its a very old building, conditions arent good etc etc.
> 
> ...


why say sorry for an opinion
and i can tell you a memeber of my family has been rapped too and she would be so happy i he was murdered as she said so herself when she rea dthis story
again an opinion is just that


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

can i also say i wasnt saying well done and they should be released, as we are well aware on my opinion of murder.... i want the death penalty back i have 0 tolerance for that either
i was merely talking about this particular story


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> Sorry guys but I agree with Metame.
> 
> I have been inside Franklands and its a very old building, conditions arent good etc etc.
> 
> ...


i dont think anyone is hero worshiping those that done it,im just glad the scum is dead...saves some taxes feeding it!


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

LolaBoo said:


> How can them murdering him be ok ?
> Im sorry but yeh he did a awfull awfull thing
> But saying yeh its ok for lags to murder him is right?
> In my view its not ok for them to do it they commited murder that is a crime
> No matter who it is murder is murder


No murder is not right...imo they should bring back the death penalty under certain circumstances. 
I know one think for a fact, if one of my kids was molested i wouldnt sleep till he/she had suffered.


----------



## tjk (Sep 1, 2010)

sorry havent read all the posts or even the artical 

as far as im concerned the law is the law the people that comited the murder deserve to be punished BUT i personaly thank them for taking that scum off this earth all child sex offenders should die and id gladly spend my life in prison if i could get rid of one !


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

axl said:


> can i also say i wasnt saying well done and they should be released, as we are well aware on my opinion of murder.... i want the death penalty back i have 0 tolerance for that either
> i was merely talking about this particular story


100% with you on that one!

i also know of someone who was raped as a child her life was totally destroyed her children suffered because of her experience and she ended up taking her own life..mising out on her childrens lives and her granchildren....thats so many lives destroyed over some sick pervert who is still living a happy life today...Yes i would love to see him dead!
yes i would love to see all murders and rapists dead, they have no rights what so ever to have any human rights!


----------



## Pomegranate (Nov 15, 2009)

harley bear said:


> yes i would love to see all murders and rapists dead, they have no rights what so ever to have any human rights!


But when all the murderers were dead, that would make us the murderers - where would it end?

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."


----------



## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Personally I don't agree with some-one being murdered in prison by other prisoners- although I can understand those who give child offenders a hard time and a good kicking.

I think people get outraged because they don't feel prison is hard enough and we are too soft and the "human rights" that get used all the time, so when in house justice is dealt suppose whether right or wrong people feel less shocked by it.

The trouble with this story though is his poor family- they are the innocent ones in all this ( as are the victims) and whilst his mother may be disgusted by his crimes etc... sure she wouldn't want her son to be murdered in such a brutal way.


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

harley bear said:


> yes i would love to see all murders and rapists dead, they have no rights what so ever to have any human rights!


and if all murderers, rapists, child abusers (in any form) were killed then a lot of the ones around today wouldnt have even been born


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

Pomegranate said:


> But when all the murderers were dead, that would make us the murderers - where would it end?
> 
> "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."


hardly they committed a crime... and eye for an eye? no if they purposly took a life then they should loose any rights they ahve on this planet 
IMO

that would not make us murderers if it was legal 
as it is its not
anyone touches my kids
they wouldnt even get to prison


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

metame said:


> and if all murderers, rapists, child abusers (in any form) were killed then a lot of the ones around today wouldnt have even been born


Well then the world would be a better place if they hadnt been born!

Im a little confused how you refer to child abusers...no matter what they have done to abuse a child doesnt make them any less a peado.


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Well then the world would be a better place if they hadnt been born!
> 
> Im a little confused how you refer to child abusers...no matter what they have done to abuse a child doesnt make them any less a peado.


im on about not just sexual abuse. so no it doesnt.

physical, emotional, neglect...


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

metame said:


> im on about not just sexual abuse. so no it doesnt.
> 
> physical, emotional, neglect...


But were not talking about physical, emotional or neglect..were talking about child mosesters and murders.


----------



## Pomegranate (Nov 15, 2009)

I think what *metame* means is abusers have often been abused in their childhoods. It's a cycle through the generations.



axl said:


> that would not make us murderers if it was legal


Sadly morality and legality don't always align.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

Pomegranate said:


> I think what *metame* means is abusers have often been abused in their childhoods. It's a cycle through the generations.
> 
> Sadly morality and legality don't always align.


agreed and it never will


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Pomegranate said:


> I think what *metame* means is abusers have often been abused in their childhoods. It's a cycle through the generations.
> 
> Sadly morality and legality don't always align.


I honestly dont by that the abused go on to abuse...esp sexual abuse! Maybe SOME But of the people i know who have been molested they wouod in no way even consider messing with a child!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Pomegranate said:


> "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."


And a life for a life sure would make it the world a better place! certainly where child molesters are concerned!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

It is very easy for folk to have an opinion when they have never been affected by 'whatever'


I am not saying that any of you guys on here have NOT suffered nor know first hand what it must feel like to have been asused or to have had a child abused!

So just for a moment - imaging this one - if you child or grandaughter where raped by an adult - what would you like to see happen to the abuser?


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

axl said:


> put it this way if that was my daughter in the story
> i wouldnt be loosing any sleep over it thats for sure





axl said:


> hardly they committed a crime... and eye for an eye? no if they purposly took a life then they should loose any rights they ahve on this planet
> IMO
> 
> that would not make us murderers if it was legal
> ...





DT said:


> It is very easy for folk to have an opinion when they have never been affected by 'whatever'
> 
> I am not saying that any of you guys on here have NOT suffered nor know first hand what it must feel like to have been asused or to have had a child abused!
> 
> So just for a moment - imaging this one - if you child or grandaughter where raped by an adult - what would you like to see happen to the abuser?


answered ^^^


----------



## Pomegranate (Nov 15, 2009)

DT said:


> It is very easy for folk to have an opinion when they have never been affected by 'whatever'
> 
> So just for a moment - imaging this one - if you child or grandaughter where raped by an adult - what would you like to see happen to the abuser?


Just to say, child abuse is worryingly common.  It might surprise you just how many people have been affected by it, first hand.

And with personal situations like the scenario you mentioned, I imagine I wouldn't really be in a fit state to make a good decision.


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

DT said:


> It is very easy for folk to have an opinion when they have never been affected by 'whatever'
> 
> I am not saying that any of you guys on here have NOT suffered nor know first hand what it must feel like to have been asused or to have had a child abused!
> 
> So just for a moment - imaging this one - if you child or grandaughter where raped by an adult - what would you like to see happen to the abuser?


i would be stood exactly where i am now


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

metame said:


> i would be stood exactly where i am now


Then you have more forgiveness in you then I could ever have! I would find it difficult to control myself and would certainly be baying for blood!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

DT said:


> It is very easy for folk to have an opinion when they have never been affected by 'whatever'
> 
> I am not saying that any of you guys on here have NOT suffered nor know first hand what it must feel like to have been asused or to have had a child abused!
> 
> So just for a moment - imaging this one - if you child or grandaughter where raped by an adult - what would you like to see happen to the abuser?





Pomegranate said:


> Just to say, child abuse is worryingly common.  It might surprise you just how many people have been affected by it, first hand.
> 
> And with personal situations like the scenario you mentioned, I imagine I wouldn't really be in a fit state to make a good decision.


I have no doubt whatsoever that many people have been affected by child abuse, and have quoted my full original post which says as much in the second paragraph!


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

harley bear said:


> I honestly dont by that the abused go on to abuse...esp sexual abuse! Maybe SOME But of the people i know who have been molested they wouod in no way even consider messing with a child!


you dont need to buy it. its the truth.
and thats like saying that because some people who share personal stories on forums lie/want attention then they all do so noone should be believed about anything.

yes a much softer version if you will but its the truth.

EVERYONE is different and everyone reacts to things differently, as you can tell by responses to this, and thats only responses not actual answers though with the two different accounts on here you can see that too anyhow, just by ASKING people.

add into the account, age differences between when the acts occured, how long they went on for, other circumstances...

the trouble is, there is no answer.

yes, some people may be downright evil but, as people keep saying on here, if people were all the same it would be a very boring world.



DT said:


> Then you have more forgiveness in you then I could ever have! I would find it difficult to control myself and would certainly be baying for blood!


i have to have forgiveness.
im not saying it doesnt need to be earned, in fact it SHOULD be earned. i'd had to earn more than my fair share of forgiveness in my time and i shouldnt have been forgiven for a lot of those things.


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm a mum of an abused child. I am married to her abuser although the divorce is almost finalised. My son (youngest) is his son aswell. 

Yes there have been times when I have wanted him dead but I don't believe that subjecting another human being to a horrific death like that makes any difference to justice.

I would rather my daughters abuser spends every living moment, regretting everything he did to her. Torn to pieces by the family he lost. 

The man that was murdered no longer has to suffer his conscience if he had any to begin with, but he no longer has to suffer for his crime.

My daughters abuser can never have anymore children of his own. If he does they will be taken into care unless he leaves the home. I can only imagine the torment he is in, knowing he has a 5 yr old son whom he adored, who is now being raised without him. Who will be told one day his daddy is a child abuser.
His torment goes on...the murdered mans doesnt.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

metame said:


> you dont need to buy it. its the truth.
> and thats like saying that because some people who share personal stories on forums lie/want attention then they all do so noone should be believed about anything.
> 
> yes a much softer version if you will but its the truth.
> ...


Not every person who has been sexually abused as a child goes on to abuse thats a load of bull!


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> I'm a mum of an abused child. I am married to her abuser although the divorce is almost finalised. My son (youngest) is his son aswell.
> 
> Yes there have been times when I have wanted him dead but I don't believe that subjecting another human being to a horrific death like that makes any difference to justice.
> 
> ...


and your story is very similar to my family member... but she is the opposite to you
she would gladly see him hang and this happened 7 years ago now

as both stories are so similar it just proves that human beings are complex characters, with difference in opinions feelings and actions.

can i just say stay strong


----------



## Pomegranate (Nov 15, 2009)

*Lavenderb*:  *giant, giant hugs*


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Not every person who has been sexually abused as a child goes on to abuse thats a load of bull!


no-none mentioned EVERYONE?
you however implied no-one.


----------



## Pomegranate (Nov 15, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Not every person who has been sexually abused as a child goes on to abuse thats a load of bull!


Wait, there's a gap in communication here. I think what *metame* meant was a lot of abusers have themselves been abused - NOT that all those who are abused go on to abuse others.


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

I would so hate to have to tell my baby boy his daddy was murdered in such a horific way. Its bad enough what I will tell him without that too. 

Call me a fruit loop if you like but I have a feeling that staying alive can be more tortuous then dieing in a lot of cases. I couldnt live with the knowledge I had abused a child, but then I wouldnt do it.


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

Pomegranate said:


> Wait, there's a gap in communication here. I think what *metame* meant was a lot of abusers have themselves been abused - NOT that all those who are abused go on to abuse others.


lol, i love that you keep saying what i meant :lol:

i already said that ^^


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

harley bear said:


> I honestly dont by that the abused go on to abuse...esp sexual abuse! Maybe SOME But of the people i know who have been molested they wouod in no way even consider messing with a child!





metame said:


> no-none mentioned EVERYONE?
> you however implied no-one.


Where did i imply that no-one will go on to abuse?


----------



## Pomegranate (Nov 15, 2009)

metame said:


> lol, i love that you keep saying what i meant :lol:
> 
> i already said that ^^


Sorry, I was just trying to clarify things.


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Its an emotive subject and will bring out strong views opposing each other, no doubt about that.

I have become more tolerant as I have become older -(dont know if tolerant is quite the right word, but it'll do, lol!)

Having studied sociology, psychology and criminology I think perhaps it gives me a slighty different insight to other people - not to say I am better than or more clever, I'm not, I just read into it all my own way.

Most murderers are victims just as much as the person they murdered as in most murders are crimes of passion or commited by someone who knew the victim well.

Those who murder in coldblood time after time, planning the crime, are the truly dangerous ones, often classed as criminally insane, and victims of abuse themselves. Whilst not every vistim of abuse goes on to abuse, its very very common, unfortunately.

It is these that are to be pitied in many ways, as they have no concept of society as we do, they do not see the world as we see it, yet they live in it and justice is served as such -(if they are caught of course). I find it hugely interesting to find out the profiles of these killers and the whys and wherefores of why they are the way they are and way they may have commited the crimes in the first place. Criminal psychology is is deeply complex in itself and still cannot give us all the answers. 

Another example of the complexities of crime are of course the War Crimes - most of the people who commit these wartime atrocities are merely victims themselves, guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, living through a period of time and in a place where the normal parameters of society no longer exist. I'm not saying they do or do not deserve to be punished, I am merely bringing up the example, to say that if they hadnt have been involved in the War - would they have commited such terrible crimes? The answer is probably blowing in the wind - we can never say for sure, but I'd like to think not, at least for some of them.

I am not saying all this to simplify murder, that would be ludicrous of me, it is a terrible crime, whatever the reasons etc. but to simply say a murderer or rapist etc deserves to die is too simple an answer for me.


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Where did i imply that no-one will go on to abuse?


you're original sentence was...



harley bear said:


> I honestly dont by that the abused go on to abuse..


sorry i misread the rest that maybe SOME do.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> Its an emotive subject and will bring out strong views opposing each other, no doubt about that.
> 
> I have become more tolerant as I have become older -(dont know if tolerant is quite the right word, but it'll do, lol!)
> 
> ...


it is a simple answer for a forum, as i didnt want to type out everything that i have learnt or my opinion on the matter as these topics can sometimes get out of hand and very heated indeed, we had a similar discussion at uni (many years ago, oh the age creeps up), the tutor at the time, had to wind down the session as it just went out of hand we had a three way split
one for the death penalty the other against, and the other had no opinion (which was shocking considering the course) :lol:

and mrs we all know im a lazy bint


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Ceearott said:


> Its an emotive subject and will bring out strong views opposing each other, no doubt about that.
> 
> I have become more tolerant as I have become older -(dont know if tolerant is quite the right word, but it'll do, lol!)
> 
> ...


They certainly don't see the world the way we do, I will agree with that. And is it possible to make them see the world the way we do...I doubt it.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> They certainly don't see the world the way we do, I will agree with that. And is it possible to make them see the world the way we do...I doubt it.


if they did then this conversation wouldn't be happening


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> They certainly don't see the world the way we do, I will agree with that. And is it possible to make them see the world the way we do...I doubt it.


Another fascinating subject - I think some can be rehabilitated, but sadly, many cant, and its these that fail to see what they do is so very wrong, on many levels. The saddest and most dangerous thing for me is all these people, one way or another, are products of our Society.............. :scared:


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

Ceearott said:


> Another fascinating subject - I think some can be rehabilitated, but sadly, many cant, and its these that fail to see what they do is so very wrong, on many levels. The saddest and most dangerous thing for me is all these people, one way or another, are products of our Society.............. :scared:


'this is a story about four people; anybody, everybody, somebody and nobody...'


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

axl said:


> if they did then this conversation wouldn't be happening


Sex offenders programme huh.......how do you programme someone's beliefs out of them? The belief that they have the right to control others by whatever means.


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

metame said:


> 'this is a story about anybody, everybody, somebody and nobody...'


Exactly hun - I thinks we are on the same wavelength - today at least, PMSL!!


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> Sex offenders programme huh.......how do you programme someone's beliefs out of them? The belief that they have the right to control others by whatever means.


Its not always about control either though is it?


----------



## Sparkle (Jan 28, 2010)

Fascinating thread.

I've dealt with pedophiles, rapists, murders etc in two jobs one with a mental
Health trust and one at a police station. 

I don't agree with any sort of crime But I think the country aretl
Too soft on criminals. Predatory pedophiles like the guy murdered are the worst, most never have any remorse. They are mentally Ill no way around iy but some can't be helped. I remember a patient who was 81 years old and we deemed him a danger to the public still, he will never be released, an 80 year old man as a danger is just unbelievable!!

Most rapists, child murderers and pedophiles are always watching their backs in prison, they ARE considered the worst people
On earth by other prisoners.

I vote chop their hands & genitalia off!!!


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> Sex offenders programme huh.......how do you programme someone's beliefs out of them? The belief that they have the right to control others by whatever means.


which is what i meant you can not or we would be drones of one society, act the same, speak the same, dress the same, behave the same
its just not in the human race to do so


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

dorrit said:


> I have family who work in the prison service... They have told me the abuse they have to suffer from these child abusers..
> They will whisper filth at the officers telling them what they will do to his children when they get out...I wont go into detail its too disturbing
> 
> The officers cannot respond if they do they will be sacked..They have to call these creatures 'sir' because of human rights..
> ...


My mate works in the prison service.. She works the paedo wing... A ruling is you don't discuss yours or anyone elses personal life with the prisoners.. Therefore they shouldn't know he has kids...

Now I dont agree with the natures of the crimes.. And i do think going to prison is like some big joy ride..

Not only did this person ruin the life of his victim.. and her family but also he will have ruined the life for his family.. Its a viscous circle though.. I mean what should be done with them..

I mean I must agree I dont like the idea they are sat in prisons with every little thing they need they are looked after well.. And to me that is wrong..

People murdering him is also wrong.. But I imagine if it was my child that was abused I wouldn't like to think how I would feel about it..


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

TBH completely honest with you all - I am not really bother what others opinions are on this! I am INTRESTED in what your views are! BUT not in the least bothered if they differ from mine! Irrespctive of what anyone says on this thread IMO child abusers deserve everything they get - and I for one am not going to lose any sleep over how violent that may be if and when members of this society (and that includes hardened crimnals) take it upon themselves for dispatch em them my thoughs are!! Good on em! saves us the expense of keeping em for the next god know how many years!


----------



## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

DT said:


> Lags disembowel child rapist in his cell | The Sun |News
> 
> personally I think these offenders have contributed greatly to society!
> but spect there will be some banging on about human rights!


couldn't agree with you more! And i say this as a law student


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Sparkle said:


> Fascinating thread.
> 
> I've dealt with pedophiles, rapists, murders etc in two jobs one with a mental
> Health trust and one at a police station.
> ...


Be it male or female ..I think if we hardened up and took a 0 tollerence policy and these sort of punishments were carried out people would think twice!


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Be it male or female ..I think if we hardened up and took a 0 tollerence policy and these sort of punishments were carried out people would think twice!


They dont think like we do therefore they have lost the ability to think twice ......

and just to add another spin on things. Me and my daughter both have nightmares our abuser will come back for us when he gets out...so how screwed up are we.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Be it male or female ..I think if we hardened up and took a 0 tollerence policy and these sort of punishments were carried out people would think twice!


I disagree. I think it is a revolting complusion and applying a worse punishment would have no effect on this sort of crime at all.

If you think about what these people risk carrying out these horrible offences, loss of family, friends, respect, love, imprisonment with people who will want to harm them at every opportunity and that doesn't deter them then nothing will.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Lavenderb said:


> They dont think like we do therefore they have lost the ability to think twice ......
> 
> and just to add another spin on things. Me and my daughter both have nightmares our abuser will come back for us when he gets out...so how screwed up are we.


Your not screwed up, you have been scared and its natural to fear. You dont have to answer..but how long did he get as a prison sentence?


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Be it male or female ..I think if we hardened up and took a 0 tollerence policy and these sort of punishments were carried out people would think twice!


dont think thats true..peados fanc kids,theyre sick!you cant change that with prison,if fancying women was a crime...you could bang me up,but il still fancy them when i come out(just point out,heres only one woman for me).lots of peodos probably never offend,but those that do need to be removed ro society for ever...and if they take a kicking along the way...all well and good!


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> I disagree. I think it is a revolting complusion and applying a worse punishment would have no effect on this sort of crime at all.
> 
> If you think about what these people risk carrying out these horrible offences, loss of family, friends, respect, love, imprisonment with people who will want to harm them at every opportunity and that doesn't deter them then nothing will.


Yes..i do agree its just a nice to think that they might suffer like they have made others suffer.
In a perfect world they would be forced into labs and instead of using animald use these revolting creatured instead! I would love nothing more than to see that happen.


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Your not screwed up, you have been scared and its natural to fear. You dont have to answer..but how long did he get as a prison sentence?


He got 8 yrs but reduced to 4 as he pleaded guilty from the moment he was questioned.
He's not allowed within 200 metres of any address me or my children live at when he is released. Not allowed unsupervised contact with any child under the age of 16. He's on the sex offenders register for life.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Lavenderb said:


> He got 8 yrs but reduced to 4 as he pleaded guilty from the moment he was questioned.
> He's not allowed within 200 metres of any address me or my children live at when he is released. Not allowed unsupervised contact with any child under the age of 16. He's on the sex offenders register for life.


Im sorry 

That to me hun is merely a slap on the wrist


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

You can't really have this debate without discussing "Miscarriages of justice"

Say a school teacher gets accused of interferring with a child, local vigilantes take him apart. It later transpires the child made it up. Who wants to face that school teachers family ??

And murderers ??? There but for the grace of god go every one of us. Plenty of cases of testosterone fuelled teenage boys getting a bit out of hand on a Friday night, fist fight breaks out and one kid hits the pavement a bit hard ??

Crimes of passion ??

Woman who has been abused by her hubby for years finally stands up for herself with the carving knife ?

Are they all in the same bracket, where do you draw the line ?

Of course gut instinct wants Child Molesters wiped off the face of the earth but it's just not that simple for me.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Lavenderb said:


> He got 8 yrs but reduced to 4 as he pleaded guilty from the moment he was questioned.
> He's not allowed within 200 metres of any address me or my children live at when he is released. Not allowed unsupervised contact with any child under the age of 16. He's on the sex offenders register for life.


Bloody hell that really is nowhere near long enough


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

If any kiddly fiddler messed with any of my kids, I would not wait for the courts to deal with them.

Pond life! Scum.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> If any kiddly fiddler messed with any of my kids, I would not wait for the courts to deal with them.
> 
> Pond life! Scum.


As a parent this is my response and i have huge admiration for the services that manage families after events like The Soham Murders and ensure that they don't suffer further by ending up on charges themselves.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> As a parent this is my response and i have huge admiration for the services that manage families after events like The Soham Murders and ensure that they don't suffer further by ending up on charges themselves.


I take my hat off to ANYONE who can work with people like that ..esp the police who have to track these peado rings and have to endure the sick images day in and day out so these scum bags can be put behind bars! Its a job i know i wouldnt be able to do!


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Paedos come in all sorts shapes and sizes.

The older I get the less tolerant I get.

If I had a rifle I would shoot the bl00dy lot of em! Waste of space,,,,


----------



## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

I think we have to give the police and workers in general they dues cause it is not their fault or the courts it is the legislators who seem to think these people still should have human rights, personally when you commit such a despicable crime you are no longer worthy of those rights! 

Lavenderb im so sorry this country and our excuse of a legal system has let you down like this, you deserve so much better...... these people should be sent to egypt for their punishment


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I have posted before that I was raped and abused as child it actually ruined my life I can show no one affection including my poor OH I trust nobody, all in all its been a very lonely life.I was only a small child when it started and it finished by being raped the out come many weeks in hospital and unable to have children,for many years I couldn't go to bed unless the lights were left on,but I still don't think it is up to other prisoners to murder I just think the death penalty should be brought back,unless you have had some great big man treating you like a doll you can never understand,I am 50 now and a day doesn't go by without I think of it.


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

suewhite said:


> I have posted before that I was raped and abused as child it actually ruined my life I can show no one affection including my poor OH I trust nobody, all in all its been a very lonely life.I was only a small child when it started and it finished by being raped the out come many weeks in hospital and unable to have children,for many years I couldn't go to bed unless the lights were left on,but I still don't think it is up to other prisoners to murder I just think the death penalty should be brought back,unless you have had some great big man treating you like a doll you can never understand,I am 50 now and a day doesn't go by without I think of it.


Sue I think you are amazing ((hugs))


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

I dont think its up to others to take it into their own hands either; Its just one of them things, us that have morals are disgusted by such things, but it doesnt give us the right to commite another crime! - I just fail to see it being a decent way to go about things. - although I guess its a natural reaction if someone close to you have been subject to such abuse.


----------



## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

Well i think that those who have had to deal with this would disagree the governments job is to protect society letting them out again into society to hurt more innocent victims is hardly protecting.... sometimes things need to be done by someone willing as the rest of us won't


----------



## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

raggie doll said:


> Well i think that those who have had to deal with this would disagree the governments job is to protect society letting them out again into society to hurt more innocent victims is hardly protecting.... sometimes things need to be done by someone willing as the rest of us won't


Maybe some are just realistic in the fact that you dont achieve anything by causing yet more crimes...


----------



## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

i think they are both valid points, and people will always disagree, i think that in some situations you just can't accept the faults of a world like this you have to fight against it.... but like i said thats just my opinion.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

There will always be different views! Those campagning for prisoners to 'have human right' giving em the vote! Allowing kiddy fiddlers anomosity on their release! A englishman can no longer defend his castle blah blah blah 
! There's another fine example as to how our wonderful SOFT country is progressing!

And the softer it gets - the more cruel and violent it gets! think about it!


----------



## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

DT said:


> There will always be different views! Those campagning for prisoners to 'have human right' giving em the vote! Allowing kiddy fiddlers anomosity on their release! A englishman can no longer defend his castle blah blah blah
> ! There's another fine example as to how our wonderful SOFT country is progressing!
> 
> And the softer it gets - the more cruel and violent it gets! think about it!


yeah, personally i think that the human race is not something to be that proud of, other species don't kill their own for sport, cats and dogs much better!


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DT said:


> There will always be different views! Those campagning for prisoners to 'have human right' giving em the vote! Allowing kiddy fiddlers anomosity on their release! A englishman can no longer defend his castle blah blah blah
> ! There's another fine example as to how our wonderful SOFT country is progressing!
> 
> And the softer it gets - the more cruel and violent it gets! think about it!


Totally agree! People should live in total fear of the justice system...i know someone who lives very close to me who says every time they get sent down its like a holiday and they make more money in prison than they ever would on the outside!
This country needs to start ruling with an iron rod! PLUS parents are too scared to discepline their kids in fear of friggin SS and are let get away with practically murder! Years ago kids grew up with respect for their parents now they grow up and threaten to ring childline if they get told off!
The country has gone to shite and it will keep going down the pan the softer and softer we get!


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

harley bear said:


> Totally agree! People should live in total fear of the justice system...i know someone who lives very close to me who says every time they get sent down its like a holiday and they make more money in prison than they ever would on the outside!
> This country needs to start ruling with an iron rod! PLUS parents are too scared to discepline their kids in fear of friggin SS and are let get away with practically murder! Years ago kids grew up with respect for their parents now they grow up and threaten to ring childline if they get told off!
> The country has gone to shite and it will keep going down the pan the softer and softer we get!


Now that I do agree with, but whilst I am not a great believer in giving the kids a clout, some of these mothers don't have the first idea. I was queueing in the bank during the summer holidays, woman at the front being served kept telling her kid that if she behaves she will go to the park, the one behind her in the queue had two boys who were running riot out of sight of the cashdesks. One of the people in the offices had to bring them back as she couldn't concentrate and this stupid woman did nothing but say to her friend "what are they doing? I daren't look".

In my day it was more a case of behave and you won't get a smack round the ear! Not that that ever happened, but the threat was always there and they would have been quietly queueing with me or playing at the child's table with the toys.

You don't have to use physical force to control a child, a bribery obviously does not work. I only had to give them a look; that was enough.

As to the nonces, they shouldn't be in prison. As I said before, they should be in some laboratory helping to research drugs.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Personally..I am not to cry about it...they saved taxpayers a packet...and maybe scared similar people..who at least will not have it easy as most prisoners do...

Child abuse is a hideous crime, ...IMAO slow painful death is what I recommend...


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Now that I do agree with, but whilst I am not a great believer in giving the kids a clout, some of these mothers don't have the first idea. I was queueing in the bank during the summer holidays, woman at the front being served kept telling her kid that if she behaves she will go to the park, the one behind her in the queue had two boys who were running riot out of sight of the cashdesks. One of the people in the offices had to bring them back as she couldn't concentrate and this stupid woman did nothing but say to her friend "what are they doing? I daren't look".
> 
> In my day it was more a case of behave and you won't get a smack round the ear! Not that that ever happened, but the threat was always there and they would have been quietly queueing with me or playing at the child's table with the toys.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean.
i personally dont think there should be a law against giving a child a smacked backside, now full on child abuse is a total different story!
i think ..well i actually know some parents are so lax about the behaviour of their children its actually sickening..and that particular family shouldnt be allowed to bring up flem let alone a human being  
Most people round here open the door and let the kids run free and dont know where they are


----------



## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

if he did do the actual deed then good

if he merely boasted about it but didn't do it then good

we can do without his genes in the pool either way.


----------



## tjk (Sep 1, 2010)

metame said:


> you dont need to buy it. its the truth.
> and thats like saying that because some people who share personal stories on forums lie/want attention then they all do so noone should be believed about anything.
> 
> yes a much softer version if you will but its the truth.
> ...


how can you say its the truth ????? my mum was abused all her childhood never abused me or my brother or sister !

i know boys and girlss that have not grown up to be a pedo just because they were raised by them ! or spawned by them or abused by them

in my honest opinion peadophiles and rapists are born that way no ammount of rehab or hiding them in the system will change that they are a DISSEASE nothing more and what do we do with dissease? eradicate it !


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

tjk said:


> how can you say its the truth ????? my mum was abused all her childhood never abused me or my brother or sister !
> 
> i know boys and girlss that have not grown up to be a pedo just because they were raised by them ! or spawned by them or abused by them
> 
> in my honest opinion peadophiles and rapists are born that way no ammount of rehab or hiding them in the system will change that they are a DISSEASE nothing more and what do we do with dissease? eradicate it !


Could not agree more with everything in that post!:thumbup:


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

The USA takes a much harder stance on crime and punishment - does it work?? No it does not, they have a huge % of the population in prisons and they keep re-offending, that tells me it does not work - even the '3 Strikes' Policy is not working. 

There is no easy answer to dealing with Law/Justice/Punishment - I certainly dont know the answer, but I do believe the answer is not in retaliating with further violence.

I keep saying not everyone abused will go on to become and abuser, but the fact remains, a high % of offenders have been abused in some way at some time in their life - FACT.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

tjk said:


> how can you say its the truth ????? my mum was abused all her childhood never abused me or my brother or sister !
> 
> i know boys and girlss that have not grown up to be a pedo just because they were raised by them ! or spawned by them or abused by them
> 
> in my honest opinion peadophiles and rapists are born that way no ammount of rehab or hiding them in the system will change that they are a DISSEASE nothing more and what do we do with dissease? eradicate it !


Also like you say people are born like it...not wired up right in the head..no amout of rehab will change how disgusting they are..even chemical castration doesnt stop their revolting thoughts and wants! 
I would love to see the death penalty brought back for peados..but ONLY id there is 100% proof that the person committed the crime.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> The USA takes a much harder stance on crime and punishment - does it work?? No it does not, they have a huge % of the population in prisons and they keep re-offending, that tells me it does not work - even the '3 Strikes' Policy is not working.
> 
> There is no easy answer to dealing with Law/Justice/Punishment - I certainly dont know the answer, but I do believe the answer is not in retaliating with further violence.
> 
> I keep saying not everyone abused will go on to become and abuser, but the fact remains, a high % of offenders have been abused in some way at some time in their life - FACT.


I fear the US prisons are a tad bit 'harder' then ours! doubt even the hardest of our crims would survive in some of those places! they would want to come out in a box!


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

I have no sympathy for him 

I DO think they can be made if you know what I mean. Older children abusing younger children although not pedophiles I wonder if its something you are born with? I don't know  

I know one bloody Thing there needs go be better support to the victims and their families


----------



## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Shant be losing any sleep over this one.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Also like you say people are born like it...not wired up right in the head..no amout of rehab will change how disgusting they are..even chemical castration doesnt stop their revolting thoughts and wants!
> I would love to see the death penalty brought back for peados..but ONLY id there is 100% proof that the person committed the crime.


So you are saying it's a disability that they can't help?  
A bit like Schizophrenia, they can't help themselves.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Ceearott said:


> The USA takes a much harder stance on crime and punishment - does it work?? No it does not, they have a huge % of the population in prisons and they keep re-offending, that tells me it does not work - even the '3 Strikes' Policy is not working.
> 
> There is no easy answer to dealing with Law/Justice/Punishment - I certainly dont know the answer, but I do believe the answer is not in retaliating with further violence.
> 
> I keep saying not everyone abused will go on to become and abuser, but the fact remains, a high % of offenders have been abused in some way at some time in their life - FACT.


It is interesting that people get so offended and misunderstand that fact.

Like you say of course a person who is abused will not definately go on to be an abuser but it has been proven that most abusers have been abused. It is not a slight against people who have been abused it is just part of the profiling statistics.

There are many reasons why this may be and they are very complex and specific to the individual. Abuse is about power and compulsion, gratification and lack of conscience (sp) Some very very powerful emotions.

Look at addictions, that compulsion to have a drink, smoke a *** or take drugs, even the strongest instinct of all (that of self preservation) is disregarded in favour of that "fix". As an ex smoker i know all too well how you can find yourself having a *** and not really know why and i have known people continue to smoke despite knowing it was killing them, leaving their loved ones heartbroken.

Clearly Child abuse is the most henious of all crimes but when you apply the forces of addiction to it, for me, it explains in some way the power of the mind, add to the forces of addiction a "miss wired" circuit or strong and unpleasant early experiences that leave an individual with a warped sense of right and wrong and you have the capacity for evil.

Do i pity them - No, Do i think they can be "re wired" - No, Do i want a justice system that takes the law into its own hands - No.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

JennyClifford said:


> So you are saying it's a disability that they can't help?
> A bit like Schizophrenia, they can't help themselves.


There is a MAJOR differents between being a child molester and being schizophrenic....its worlds apart!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> Do i want a justice system that takes the law into its own hands - No.


The reason that the justice system is taking on vigilante style punishishments is because the 'firm' our govenment is too damd soft when it comes to sentacing, coupled with the do-gooders campagning for human rights for offenders - its like I said before - an Englishman can no longer defend his castle - and until these daft laws are altered then we are going to see a lot lot more of retribution style fightbacks!

OK!! not really the case with nouces as they have always been the low of the low and the most despised of those in prison! BUT even allowing them the proctection they recieve and new identities upon their release is in the views of many not acceptable! Would you want to know Rainy if a kiddy fiddler lived in your street? I know I would!

If you want to be soft on em! build em a new town where they can all be sent the moment they offend = preferably on another planet! and let them sort out their own hieracy


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

harley bear said:


> There is a MAJOR differents between being a child molester and being schizophrenic....its worlds apart!


Actually Mrs Bear - there is a correlation between mental health and peadophilia, including schizophrenia


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> Actually Mrs Bear - there is a correlation between mental health and peadophilia, including schizophrenia


That's what I thought had been said here. 

I know for a fact that not all Peados have mental illness but what of those that do?


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Ceearott said:


> Actually Mrs Bear - there is a correlation between mental health and peadophilia, including schizophrenia


Well of course there is...its mental health ..but i personally wouldnt put them in the same league..yes im an angry, bitter twisted person after what i have seen and what i have had to live with and i will always want all peados wiped off the face of the earth...i cant help that! Thats the way im wired up :lol:
To be honest no amount of studdying the connections of them being abused thus causing them to abuse will never make me think any differently.
If it meant i could save one child from going through that then i would pull a trigger and feel no remorse..

yep told ya im a terrible person :lol:


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

DT said:


> The reason that the justice system is taking on vigilante style punishishments is because the 'firm' our govenment is too damd soft when it comes to sentacing, coupled with the do-gooders campagning for human rights for offenders - its like I said before - an Englishman can no longer defend his castle - and until these daft laws are altered then we are going to see a lot lot more of retribution style fightbacks!
> 
> OK!! not really the case with nouces as they have always been the low of the low and the most despised of those in prison! BUT even allowing them the proctection they recieve and new identities upon their release is in the views of many not acceptable! Would you want to know Rainy if a kiddy fiddler lived in your street? I know I would!
> 
> If you want to be soft on em! build em a new town where they can all be sent the moment they offend = preferably on another planet! and let them sort out their own hieracy


I can't see where i said about being soft on them and yes i would want to know. Sentencing is too lenient and as i said i don't believe they can be rehabilitated.

I suppose i just have a general need to understand what might make a person do something so awful, so self destructive and so evil and maybe if scientists and psychologists strive to unlock those doors we might just be able to stop it and ultimately that might actually prevent a child from suffereing whereas disembowelling a nonce won't bring that childs innocence back.


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

JennyClifford said:


> That's what I thought had been said here.
> 
> I know for a fact that not all Peados have mental illness but what of those that do?


Well now, we could turn this round and debate how to define Mental Health, lol!

Where and how do you draw the line? If someone finds it acceptable to them to torture animals - have they a mental health problem? Or is it only deemed as 'wrong' because of how society lives today?? 

The perpertrators of the truly violent and heinous crimes, must have some sort of mental health issue, otherwise they wouldnt be doing what they do - huh?  Or do they simply 'see' the world differently to the majority - who is right and who is wrong - who has the right of the ability or the knowledge or the wisdom to say so???

Deeply philosophical questions come into this if you debate hard enough........


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Ceearott said:


> Well now, we could turn this round and debate how to define Mental Health, lol!
> 
> Where and how do you draw the line? If someone finds it acceptable to them to torture animals - have they a mental health problem? Or is it only deemed as 'wrong' because of how society lives today??
> 
> ...


How serious a crime is deemed is only social conditioning. Look at how children were treated in Victorian times (not that long ago) Children were horrifically abused and noone turned a hair


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

DT said:


> The reason that the justice system is taking on vigilante style punishishments is because the 'firm' our govenment is too damd soft when it comes to sentacing, coupled with the do-gooders campagning for human rights for offenders - its like I said before - an Englishman can no longer defend his castle - and until these daft laws are altered then we are going to see a lot lot more of retribution style fightbacks!
> 
> OK!! not really the case with nouces as they have always been the low of the low and the most despised of those in prison! BUT even allowing them the proctection they recieve and new identities upon their release is in the views of many not acceptable! Would you want to know Rainy if a kiddy fiddler lived in your street? I know I would!
> 
> If you want to be soft on em! build em a new town where they can all be sent the moment they offend = preferably on another planet! and let them sort out their own hieracy


I've always favoured dropping them out of a helicopter in the middle of the Pacific.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> I can't see where i said about being soft on them and yes i would want to know. Sentencing is too lenient and as i said i don't believe they can be rehabilitated.
> 
> I suppose i just have a general need to understand what might make a person do something so awful, so self destructive and so evil and maybe if scientists and psychologists strive to unlock those doors we might just be able to stop it and ultimately that might actually prevent a child from suffereing whereas disembowelling a nonce won't bring that childs innocence back.


My response was to you final question Rainybows:
Do I (you not me) want the crims to take the justice system into their own hands?
I for one fear unless the courts dish out stiffer sentaces and prison life is much harder you will see more and more of this type of retribution - and not only in the prisons

I was trying to emphasize how protected they are - both inside and outside - hence my other comment re - would you like to know if one lived on your street?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I've always favoured dropping them out of a helicopter in the middle of the Pacific.


What! and give em the chance to swim back to our shores! Shame on you - you lightweight you

Besides - think of all the poor fishy's - why should they suffer in contaminated water!


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> How serious a crime is deemed is only social conditioning. Look at how children were treated in Victorian times (not that long ago) Children were horrifically abused and noone turned a hair


Exactly! 

Look what society did with those with mental health problems - stuck them in asylums - which we now all think were terrible places that comitted terrible inhuman crimes against people unable to help themselves - hell, I've even looked after people still alive who lived in some of these places and what they suffered has affected them for live, so indeed, conditioning - social or otherwise plays a huge part in how we turn out as individuals.


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

DT said:


> My response was to you final question Rainybows:
> Do I (you not me) want the crims to take the justice system into their own hands?
> I for one fear unless the courts dish out stiffer sentaces and prison life is much harder you will see more and more of this type of retribution - and no only in the prisons


Prison life in some US prisons is massively 'hard' - does it work - does it feck!!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> Prison life in some US prisons is massively 'hard' - does it work - does it feck!!


That does not alter the fact that our prisons are too soft
Makes me feel a whole lot better knowing that all lags are having a hard time! and not a holiday - unlike some of our poor old folk! £3.30 a day to feed a prisioner! just over £2 a day to feed hospital patients - summats gone wrong somewhere!


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

DT said:


> That does not alter the fact that our prisons are too soft
> Makes me feel a whole lot better knowing that all lags are having a hard time! and not a holiday - unlike some of our poor old folk! £3.30 a day to feed a prisioner! just over £2 a day to feed hospital patients - summats gone wrong somewhere!


Yes, but on the other hand, some US prisoners become so conditioned to the hard prison life they can no longer adjust when they get out so re-offend to get back in - costing taxpayer dollars just the same...............


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

DT said:


> What! and give em the chance to swim back to our shores! Shame on you - you lightweight you
> 
> Besides - think of all the poor fishy's - why should they suffer in contaminated water!


Well, they would have to be better than olympic standard to swim across the biggest ocean in the world and I was thinking that the Pacific is full of sharks. I still think a research laboratory would be best.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Well, they would have to be better than olympic standard to swim across the biggest ocean in the world and I was thinking that the Pacific is full of sharks. I still think a research laboratory would be best.


I like that idea...or feeding them to crocs..or lions..bit of fresh meat...mind you they would probably turn theor nose up at the scum bags!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Look what society did with those with mental health problems - stuck them in asylums - .


And here I was thinking they stuck em all on pet forums

Only joking! just couldn't resist!


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

DT said:


> And here I was thinking they stuck em all on pet forums
> 
> Only joking! just couldn't resist!


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

If you knew the address of every paedo in the land then the so called rehabilitation system wouldn't work as they would be all murdered the moment they stepped foot outside their houses.

I don't know if making the prisons harder works either as in some cases it may only serve to make the criminal harder once they have served their time. Then you are letting these hard emotionless people back out on the streets.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Well i for one is glad hes out of the way, pity theres still many more out there, that will be released and out there a danger to these poor kids, anyone out there who are a danger to society should be put away and never let out again, sadly that doesnt happen they come out get all the security they can, change of identity, but you cant change the person behind all that so they are still a danger to innocent people, where is that fair?

Can i also ask to anyone with children who disagrees with the killing, if their child was abused and was asked what you wanted done with your childs abuser, what would it be?


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> They dont think like we do therefore they have lost the ability to think twice ......
> 
> and just to add another spin on things. Me and my daughter both have nightmares our abuser will come back for us when he gets out...so how screwed up are we.


My heart goes out to you. My sister left home at 17 for a bloke, he destroyed her life and that of their subsequent 6 children none of them will have a minutes peace until he is dead. In total his sentence should have amounted to 25 years but to take account of his guilty plea at the last minute all the charges ran alongside each other so it meant 7 years. The only reason he is still locked up is because he is deemed still so dangerous to them, our aged parents and me and ANY female, but its always there hanging over their heads that one day he will pretend he regrets what he did and some liberal will let him out.

A lot of people cannot accept that some are just born pure evil. There should be the death sentence for scum like this, as there isn't then no I struggle to muster an ounce of sympathy, distaste at the method but that is all


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> If you knew the address of every paedo in the land then the so called rehabilitation system wouldn't work as they would be all murdered the moment they stepped foot outside their houses.
> 
> I don't know if making the prisons harder works either as in some cases it may only serve to make the criminal harder once they have served their time. Then you are letting these hard emotionless people back out on the streets.


Yeah - the even more 'damaged products' of the system.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Lavenderb said:


> If you knew the address of every paedo in the land then the so called rehabilitation system wouldn't work as they would be all murdered the moment they stepped foot outside their houses.
> 
> I don't know if making the prisons harder works either as in some cases it may only serve to make the criminal harder once they have served their time. Then you are letting these hard emotionless people back out on the streets.


Sometimes its a case of..your damned if you do and damned if you dont. 
But i certainly dont think they should have thousands of pounds spent on changing their identity..you do the crime you do the bloody time...these people as you well know ruin lives and its not something that will ever pass so why should they have a get outa jail free card? They should soend a lifetime in living hell.


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Well i for one is glad hes out of the way, pity theres still many more out there, that will be released and out there a danger to these poor kids, anyone out there who are a danger to society should be put away and never let out again, sadly that doesnt happen they come out get all the security they can, change of identity, but you cant change the person behind all that so they are still a danger to innocent people, where is that fair?
> 
> Can i also ask to anyone with children who disagrees with the killing, if their child was abused and was asked what you wanted done with your childs abuser, what would it be?


http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-...-murdered-lags-your-views-post1061470621.html

see above


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Lavenderb said:


> http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-...-murdered-lags-your-views-post1061470621.html
> 
> see above


I actually remember reading that now and yes agree and your words but will he live with that torment maybe so because its his child, but these men that have no emotional bond with a child would they feel any torment.
Just to add i dont know how you and many others cope you must find some strength from somewhere. x


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Sometimes its a case of..your damned if you do and damned if you dont.
> But i certainly dont think they should have thousands of pounds spent on changing their identity..you do the crime you do the bloody time...these people as you well know ruin lives and its not something that will ever pass so why should they have a get outa jail free card? They should soend a lifetime in living hell.


But once again, it comes down to individual interpretation hun - who can define what living hell is??


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> Well i for one is glad hes out of the way, pity theres still many more out there, that will be released and out there a danger to these poor kids, anyone out there who are a danger to society should be put away and never let out again, sadly that doesnt happen they come out get all the security they can, change of identity, but you cant change the person behind all that so they are still a danger to innocent people, where is that fair?
> 
> Can i also ask to anyone with children who disagrees with the killing, if their child was abused and was asked what you wanted done with your childs abuser, what would it be?


Research laboratory, no question. They can keep them alive long enough for them to have regrets, but they won't regret what they have done, only that they got caught.

There is always some do-gooder. Look at how Lord Longford campaigned for years to get Myra Hindley released? Look at all the people she fooled into thinking she had nothing to do with it, then went and showed the police where they were buried in the hope of getting parole. Does anyone really believe she regretted what she had done? I don't. I just believe she regretted the life sentence.

In Victorian times hanged prisoners had their bodies confiscated for medical research. There was no permission asked from anyone; that is the way it was. It should be the way it is now.

And just where have all these nonces come from? Back in the fifties when I was a child we had all the freedom in the world; nobody worried about child abusers and it was very, very rare that it happened.

Did we just not know, or what?


----------



## raggie doll (Sep 16, 2011)

Pomegranate said:


> Wait, there's a gap in communication here. I think what *metame* meant was a lot of abusers have themselves been abused - NOT that all those who are abused go on to abuse others.


i think a key point here is most that are in abuse cycle never learnt what had been done to them was wrong and hence continue the cycle


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Research laboratory, no question. They can keep them alive long enough for them to have regrets, but they won't regret what they have done, only that they got caught.
> 
> There is always some do-gooder. Look at how Lord Longford campaigned for years to get Myra Hindley released? Look at all the people she fooled into thinking she had nothing to do with it, then went and showed the police where they were buried in the hope of getting parole. Does anyone really believe she regretted what she had done? I don't. I just believe she regretted the life sentence.
> 
> ...


It happened to me in the fifties and I was told if I said anything I would be put away in a orphanage for naughty children so I kept quite until I was badly harmed and couldn't hide it.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

harley bear said:


> But i certainly dont think they should have thousands of pounds spent on changing their identity
> 
> They should soend a lifetime in living hell.


They should all carry tattoos on their forehead! I'm a child sex offender would do ! That way folk would know to avoid em!


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

suewhite said:


> It happened to me in the fifties and I was told if I said anything I would be put away in a orphanage for naughty children so I kept quite until I was badly harmed and couldn't hide it.


I think it was more hidden to be honest. If you were abused you darent bring shame onto the family. If you were the abuser you got away with it because noone wanted shame brought on either family.

Going back several generations in my family there was a great great grandfather. everyone knew he was taking pictures of children but it was kept hushed and now noone talks about it and I am absolutely disgusted. Its caused me to look at my family in different ways.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

suewhite said:


> It happened to me in the fifties and I was told if I said anything I would be put away in a orphanage for naughty children so I kept quite until I was badly harmed and couldn't hide it.


Was it your abuser who told you that? I have heard that they threaten children with all sorts and I do know for a fact that if it was in the family, the family would rather it carried on than that anyone should know. That is disgraceful in my opinion.

Luckily for me I had a mother who, though born in 1905, didn't give a wotsit what people thought. If there had been anything like that, and thank God I was lucky, I could have told her and she would have called the police!

One of my very best friends at primary school had two older siblings who were both severely retarded and a younger brother. The girl herself was on the borders of being educationally subnormal and was in the lowest class for everything. They all lived with her mother and grandparents and she told people her dad was dead.

Many years later I found out that all four children belonged to the grandfather. I remember thinking: that would never have happened in my family. My brothers would have strung him up, if I had had a grandfather like that.


----------



## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

I don't agree. He has not suffered long enough for what he did...he has been let off lightly


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Was it your abuser who told you that? I have heard that they threaten children with all sorts and I do know for a fact that if it was in the family, the family would rather it carried on than that anyone should know. That is disgraceful in my opinion.
> 
> Luckily for me I had a mother who, though born in 1905, didn't give a wotsit what people thought. If there had been anything like that, and thank God I was lucky, I could have told her and she would have called the police!
> 
> ...


Someone who I was at school with and am still in contact with was repeatedly raped by her father! Her one and only child is the result of her fathers sperm!! She has I add been a fantastic mother!

Don't want to say a lot more on this (incase she should read because she knows I come on pf) other then her father DID meet a sticky end!


----------



## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I bet the parents of the child are happy now. I am not for the killing but he has affected someone's life for ever and if he was released she would worry at least she can sleep now knowing he cant ever touch her again. As for those responsible for his death they should receive longer inside.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DT said:


> Someone who I was at school with and am still in contact with was repeatedly raped by her father! Her one and only child is the result of her fathers sperm!! She has I add been a fantastic mother!
> 
> Don't want to say a lot more on this (incase she should read because she knows I come on pf) other then her father DID meet a sticky end!


I take my hat of to that woman i tell ya!


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

i go away for the afternoon and look whats hapened to thread

its just gone viral
i heard its on the bbc news tonight 
:lol:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

DKDREAM said:


> As for those responsible for his death they should receive longer inside.


They probably would never be let out anyway DK. But whatever time they have left in the they will have moved up the ladder! T'is all about respect - they'll have gallons of it! T'is how it works!


----------



## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

on another note i wish something would happen to Ian Huntley


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DKDREAM said:


> on another note i wish something would happen to Ian Huntley


I second that!


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

DT said:


> They probably would never be let out anyway DK.


No they will have had nothing to lose by this but a lot to gain knowing they have stopped another walking our streets. Good on them i say.


----------



## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

DT said:


> They probably would never be let out anyway DK. But whatever time they have left in the they will have moved up the ladder! T'is all about respect - they'll have gallons of it! T'is how it works!


well they did some good, they give her and her family a happier life  I cant imagine how anyone who had been raped would feel if there attacker was ever released


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

harley bear said:


> I second that!


Thought he had topped himself Obviously I am confusing him with someone else!


----------



## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

DT said:


> Thought he had topped himself Obviously I am confusing him with someone else!


someone tried to kill him with a razor blade last march but failed.


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

DT said:


> Thought he had topped himself Obviously I am confusing him with someone else!


He tried a couple of times DT but they saved him


----------



## Pomegranate (Nov 15, 2009)

harley bear said:


> I would love to see the death penalty brought back for peados..but ONLY id there is 100% proof that the person committed the crime.


But that's the problem - there never is 100%, ever. Even with a full confession and evidence someone was at a scene - the evidence can be circumstantial and they could have confessed to protect someone else.

It's easy to make things appear black and white from how they're reported in the news, simplified and heavily condensed versions of events to fit into reports and newspaper word counts (not to mention the bias), but there's so much that we never know, and often so much more that no-one except the true guilty party know.


----------



## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Im not sorry he is dead , imo he got what he deserved , no matter who doled out the justice

Paedophiles , rapists and murderers make a *choice* to take away another human beings innocence , trust or life

Their compulsions , addictions , past abuse etc shouldnt even come into the equation , they made a *choice* to carry through something that is reprehensible and life destroying

If they are aware what they did is wrong and did it anyway they deserve the harshest treatment a society can give them 
And if they werent aware it was wrong , say they are mentally compromised , then tbh they in no way could ever be rehabilitated and it would be safer for society and better financially for the country for them to also suffer the harshest treatment a society can give them


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

So one of the guys who did it is in for murdering two people anyway?! Sounds like they're all as bad as each other in there to be honest.

I'm surprised that guy was in that kind of prison and not one specifically for sex offenders. No one gets hurt in those kind.


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> So one of the guys who did it is in for murdering two people anyway?! Sounds like they're all as bad as each other in there to be honest.
> 
> I'm surprised that guy was in that kind of prison and not one specifically for sex offenders. No one gets hurt in those kind.


No, but they get moved about towards the end of their sentences as they have to be integrated back into 'normal' prison life in preparation for their release. I was told by a victim liason officer that the sex offenders wings are kept very quiet. She also said a lot of the 'punishments' get handed out when they are moved.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Lavenderb said:


> No, but they get moved about towards the end of their sentences as they have to be integrated back into 'normal' prison life in preparation for their release. I was told by a victim liason officer that the sex offenders wings are kept very quiet. She also said a lot of the 'punishments' get handed out when they are moved.


They don't all move, some do stay in a specific sex offender's prison for the duration of their sentence. And I'm kind of disappointed to know that to be true


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Pomegranate said:


> But that's the problem - there never is 100%, ever. Even with a full confession and evidence someone was at a scene - the evidence can be circumstantial and they could have confessed to protect someone else.
> 
> It's easy to make things appear black and white from how they're reported in the news, simplified and heavily condensed versions of events to fit into reports and newspaper word counts (not to mention the bias), but there's so much that we never know, and often so much more that no-one except the true guilty party know.


Now that we have DNA, there can be little doubt about someone's guilt. Back in the 1960's when they were talking about abolishing hanging, one of the major influences was the execution of James Hanratty, the A6 murderer. After his hanging, many witnesses came forward to swear that he was in Wales at the time, the leading witness got his eye colour wrong in her original statement, and I believe someone else even confessed. Everyone thought they had made a dreadful mistake.

Years later, they tested the DNA from the victim's underwear and it was confirmed that he was guilty after all.



GoldenShadow said:


> So one of the guys who did it is in for murdering two people anyway?! Sounds like they're all as bad as each other in there to be honest.
> 
> I'm surprised that guy was in that kind of prison and not one specifically for sex offenders. No one gets hurt in those kind.


Do they have prisons specifically for these types? I think they just keep them in a separate area, but the prison officers don't do a lot about keeping other prisoners away from them.


----------



## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

Ceearott said:


> Sorry guys but I agree with Metame.
> 
> I have been inside Franklands and its a very old building, conditions arent good etc etc.
> 
> ...


Me too... And I agree with you 1000%

*Murder* is just that *Murder*

I think some of you really would actually do the killing, this makes me feel sick, knowing what I went through as a child, would I wish that on anyone else, no *&^%ing way

If I ask myself the question, would I be capable of killing the people that hurt me, absolutely *no **&^%ing way... I am nothing like them, nothing like them at all

For this I am proud, *no one* can change me, *no one* can alter my true nature, although they tried to break me, I am still standing, still loving, still believing, this is a reflection of Who I Am...

I am not a victim of my past, I am a survivor, one of life's heroes. There is no malice in me x

There is no victim in me either...

You talk of murder as if you are more than capable, that my friends, is only a reflection of *Who You ARE...*


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> So one of the guys who did it is in for murdering two people anyway?! Sounds like they're all as bad as each other in there to be honest.
> 
> .


Old cons had an unwritten rule! you don't hurt children -hence the retribution dished out on those that do!

That said maybe them morals are now long gone, judging by what we read these dasy. Just perhaps a handful of old lags still abide by that unwritten rule and are more then prepared to step up to the task!!
some for the respect they receive maybe! Not saying this is right - but it's how it is!

OR perhaps some for the wrong reason - in that they thrive on violence!


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

DT said:


> Old cons had an unwritten rule! you don't hurt children -hence the retribution dished out on those that do!
> 
> That said maybe them morals are now long gone, judging by what we read these dasy. Just perhaps a handful of old lags still abide by that unwritten rule and are more then prepared to step up to the task!!
> some for the respect they receive maybe! Not saying this is right - but it's how it is!
> ...


But DT one of the people involved killed two pensioners, I would say that's pretty darn bad too 

I don't think any of the prisoners in there involved have done it for the good of anyone, probably just to fulfil their own 'needs' or desires having done the crimes they already have :nonod: Its just an excuse IMO.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> But DT one of the people involved killed two pensioners, I would say that's pretty darn bad too
> 
> I don't think any of the prisoners in there involved have done it for the good of anyone, probably just to fulfil their own 'needs' or desires having done the crimes they already have :nonod: Its just an excuse IMO.


I suspect you are probably right! it was done for the 'kudos' they will receive from the other inmates!

As many have said murder is murder and wrong under whatever circumstances! Thats their views and they are welcome to them!

My views are you play with fire! you get burnt by it! OK the murderer were no better that his victim - but a little lesson for all murderers - watch your back because you will never know who is standing behind you!


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> But DT one of the people involved killed two pensioners, I would say that's pretty darn bad too
> 
> I don't think any of the prisoners in there involved have done it for the good of anyone, probably just to fulfil their own 'needs' or desires having done the crimes they already have :nonod: Its just an excuse IMO.


To me its almost like they wear it as a badge of honour. Yes you might have killed a child abuser but you were a bad bad person to be in there in the first place. Does 2 wrongs make a right?


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> To me its almost like they wear it as a badge of honour. Yes you might have killed a child abuser but you were a bad bad person to be in there in the first place. Does 2 wrongs make a right?


Eacrlt what I said earlier, lol! 

two wrongs do not make a right, we know violence breeds violence.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Lavenderb said:


> To me its almost like they wear it as a badge of honour. Yes you might have killed a child abuser but you were a bad bad person to be in there in the first place. Does 2 wrongs make a right?


Not sure why you have quoted me, I don't disagree..?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

By the way guys! I have gone off topic! when my elderly aunt was in hosptial recently she was in a room with just two beds! A very modern hospital (Kings Mill) she is in here eighties and if she wanted to watch TV she would have had to have paid for it! £4 a day I think is was!
Is this right?

My point! Cons have more rights then decent law abiding folk!
And it is about time that we hardened up!


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> So one of the guys who did it is in for murdering two people anyway?! Sounds like they're all as bad as each other in there to be honest.
> 
> I'm surprised that guy was in that kind of prison and not one specifically for sex offenders. No one gets hurt in those kind.


but someone has been hurt,the victim! why should they put them somewhere, where they cant be hurt


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Now that we have DNA, there can be little doubt about someone's guilt. Back in the 1960's when they were talking about abolishing hanging, one of the major influences was the execution of James Hanratty, the A6 murderer. After his hanging, many witnesses came forward to swear that he was in Wales at the time, the leading witness got his eye colour wrong in her original statement, and I believe someone else even confessed. Everyone thought they had made a dreadful mistake.
> 
> Years later, they tested the DNA from the victim's underwear and it was confirmed that he was guilty after all.
> 
> Do they have prisons specifically for these types? I think they just keep them in a separate area, but the prison officers don't do a lot about keeping other prisoners away from them.


No they dont go out of their way, your right, so many gate get "accidently" left open


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> No they dont go out of their way, your right, so many gate get "accidently" left open


They get more protection then they used to! The screws do not even know what *some* offenders are in for now! UNLESS it is leaked - which it often is! usually by another lag!


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> but someone has been hurt,the victim! why should they put them somewhere, where they cant be hurt


I didn't say they should..?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> but someone has been hurt,the victim! why should they put them somewhere, where they cant be hurt


Don't be daft! they have HUMAN rights you nutter!
How could you forget those ?


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I didn't say they should..?


you said you were suprised that this person wasnt in a jail just for sex offenders that way noone would get hurt which said to me thats where you think he should have been, obviously mis understood.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

DT said:


> Don't be daft! they have HUMAN rights you nutter!
> How could you forget those ?


Well ye of course, silly me, oh the good old human rights.


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Not sure why you have quoted me, I don't disagree..?


I was quoting you as I agreed hun......


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> you said you were suprised that this person wasnt in a jail just for sex offenders that way noone would get hurt which said to me thats where you think he should have been, obviously mis understood.


Nope it was meant in an I know some sex offenders live in a sex offenders only prison I'm surprised it's not yet a more widely spread arrangement kind of way. No one does get hurt in them but it was just a statement no bias either way


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> Well ye of course, silly me, oh the good old human rights.


Should be dishing it out where it's most deserved! to our old folk who know what REAL hardship is and the word 'human rights' had never been invented when they were struggling to put food in their families mouths and a roof over their heads!!


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

DT said:


> Should be dishing it out where it's most deserved! to our old folk who know what REAL hardship is and the word 'human rights' had never been invented when they were struggling to put food in their families mouths and a roof over their heads!!


Yes and while our elderly are freezing with the cold cos they can't afford their heating bills, the bloody prisons are giving the convicted access to the internet, cushy or wot.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> Yes and while our elderly are freezing with the cold cos they can't afford their heating bills, the bloody prisons are giving the convicted access to the internet, cushy or wot.


Here is what I think prison life should be like!

Three meals a day!
breakfast - porridge
lunch - cheap cut of meat and two veg
Tea - jam sandwich
Drink - as much water as they want! NOTHING ELSE!!
NO special diets - take it or leave it!

NO recreation facilities whatsoever! that includes computers, tv, newspapers NOTHING! a bar of soap a week, and a toothbrush! (you can brush without toothpaste)

Give em blankets and a mattress! lockdown from dusk until dawn - NO electicity during those hours! During daylight hours - either they work or be locked in their cell!

prision would not seem so cushy then would it!


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Im all in favour of taking away the Playstations and TVs


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> Im all in favour of taking away the Playstations and TVs


Clairelouis! please correct me if I am wrong! BUT it is MONDAY! MONDAY I say lol
DT


----------



## AlisonLyn (Sep 2, 2011)

Not read all 11 pages yet so forgive me if I omit anything already posted, personally I would say "give the lags a bonus" as long as this rapist is actually convicted and proven for the offences. One less to feed and shelter and pay, although not much consolation for the child/childrens' families


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Lavenderb said:


> Yes and while our elderly are freezing with the cold cos they can't afford their heating bills, the bloody prisons are giving the convicted access to the internet, cushy or wot.


While my ideas on a prison regime would be short hard sentences, for such as yobbos and rioters, with hard work and no visitors or luxuries...Longer term prisoners must be given the opportunity to be educated and taught a trade.Otherwise they will just fall into the unemployed and benefits trap on release and be back inside in weeks.

Many have had a lousy upbringing with crap parents, and should be encouraged to better themselves while removed from the environment that caused them to go off the rails in the first place.

I appreciate some are a lost cause and shouldn't be allowed damn all...but some are worth the effort to rehabilitate.Prison can be like a stint in the army and bring some young blokes to their senses.Not all...but at least some.


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Your idea of prison DT is far too good..send the rotters to a Thai prison....sh!tting in the hole in floor along with all the other prisoners,,,stinking of sweat and rotting teeth,,,eating nowt but rice and slops....

our prisons are better than butlins! where is the deterrent?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> Your idea of prison DT is far too good..send the rotters to a Thai prison....sh!tting in the hole in floor along with all the other prisoners,,,stinking of sweat and rotting teeth,,,eating nowt but rice and slops....
> 
> our prisons are better than butlins! where is the deterrent?


I am trying to make friends and impress people gorgeous!  in my perfect world there would be no prisons! Only firing ranges BUT don't tell the others!


----------



## cookie_monster (Oct 23, 2010)

sex offenders are segregated for their own protection in prison in wings for vulnerable prisoners.

therefore, the cons that did him were also on that wing for a reason. Think about that. 

Also, i have friends and family doing long sentences and i am massivley uncomfortable with summary justice dished out to anyone, regardless of their offence. The death penalty is NEVER justified. We are a civilised country and one of the proudest things, in my humble opinion, is that we don't have capital punishment.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

cookie_monster said:


> sex offenders are segregated for their own protection in prison in wings for vulnerable prisoners.
> 
> therefore, the cons that did him were also on that wing for a reason. Think about that.
> 
> Also, i have friends and family doing long sentences and i am massivley uncomfortable with summary justice dished out to anyone, regardless of their offence. The death penalty is NEVER justified. We are a civilised country and one of the proudest things, in my humble opinion, is that we don't have capital punishment.


your right about the segragation.....dont know about others,but im not worshiping those that done it,just glad it hapened,they could be nonses or grasses,anything...one less scumbag...good day i say!


----------



## cookie_monster (Oct 23, 2010)

albert 1970 said:


> your right about the segragation.....dont know about others,but im not worshiping those that done it,just glad it hapened,they could be nonses or grasses,anything...one less scumbag...good day i say!


my point was that most people here are celebrating the murder of a bacon by other bacons. In effect, it's saying 'good on you' to someone else who is on the numbers for a good reason, i.e they're ALSO nonces, grasses or similar.

Had he somehow come into contact with an armed robber (hello Unc) and been done that way then that's another matter. However, murder is still murder and that's wrong, no matter who commits it.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

cookie_monster said:


> my point was that most people here are celebrating the murder of a bacon by other bacons. In effect, it's saying 'good on you' to someone else who is on the numbers for a good reason, i.e they're ALSO nonces, grasses or similar.
> 
> Had he somehow come into contact with an armed robber (hello Unc) and been done that way then that's another matter. However, murder is still murder and that's wrong, no matter who commits it.


a lot of people dont know how the penal system works,so may have a clouded view on those that done it,thinking its kray esk!

to me as i said its one less scumbag rapist.......good news,hope he suffered!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

cookie_monster said:


> sex offenders are segregated for their own protection in prison in wings for vulnerable prisoners.
> 
> therefore, the cons that did him were also on that wing for a reason. Think about that.
> 
> .


In the wing for murder yep! but NOT neccesarily for crimes against children!
And I did think about it! I for one sharn't lose no sleep over his early departure from earth!


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

DT said:


> In the wing for murder yep! but NOT neccesarily for crimes against children!
> And I did think about it! I for one sharn't lose no sleep over his early departure from earth!


havnt read about this...but nonses are sectioned,and wont mix in general population,therefore what cookie is saying,is those responsable arnt lovable rogues but wronguns themselves!


----------



## cookie_monster (Oct 23, 2010)

DT said:


> In the wing for murder yep! but NOT neccesarily for crimes against children!
> And I did think about it! I for one sharn't lose no sleep over his early departure from earth!


Sorry DT, what i meant was that the wing the bacon was on is specifically for people convicted of a sex based crime OR for cons who grass or otherwise vulnerable therefore whilst the death of a paedophile is certainly nowt to lose sleep over. the people that are being applauded for killing him aren't exactly lovable rogues!


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

If all murderers got the death penalty we wouldnt be having this conversation then, if, as you say, he was banged up with murderers.

I definitely won't be losing any sleep over it, just like I wouldn't have lost any sleep over the murderers receiving the death penalty.

Edited to say: Grasses, IMO, should have their own section. I certainly don't think they are on par with child molesters or murderers (unless they grass to get a lesser sentence for those very offences)


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

cookie_monster said:


> Sorry DT, what i meant was that the wing the bacon was on is specifically for people convicted of a sex based crime OR for cons who grass or otherwise vulnerable therefore whilst the death of a paedophile is certainly nowt to lose sleep over. the people that are being applauded for killing him aren't exactly lovable rogues!


im far from applauding these men.. but i will not loose sleep over a rapist being killed no i will not, and as i have said many times if it was about my daughter he wouldnt have been in prison in the first place i would be doing time instead end of, so *in my opinion* he lived longer than he deserved


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

and if there was the death penalty people like me wouldnt feel the need ot take matters into their own hands as the courts would see to it


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> If all murderers got the death penalty we wouldnt be having this conversation then, if, as you say, he was banged up with murderers.
> 
> I definitely won't be losing any sleep over it, just like I wouldn't have lost any sleep over the murderers receiving the death penalty.


how about someone convicted of killing a nonse,should they be killed...theres lots of grey areas.


----------



## cookie_monster (Oct 23, 2010)

axl said:


> and if there was the death penalty people like me wouldnt feel the need ot take matters into their own hands as the courts would see to it


if the death penalty worked as a deterrent, it would never need to be used.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

cookie_monster said:


> if the death penalty worked as a deterrent, it would never need to be used.


i dont think it would i doubt it would deter these sick people as they are sick in the head and i dont think they think of the consequences, wouldnt enter their heads surely (this is a guess of course i am not a doctor)


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

If the only person that person had killed was a nonce, then, no, I wouldn't necessarily agree with the death penalty.

As you say, a lot of grey areas.

I do know if my child had been his victim, and the police got him before I did (in which case I would be the one inside, or facing the death penalty), tonight, I would be drinking champagne.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> If the only person that person had killed was a nonce, then, no, I wouldn't necessarily agree with the death penalty.
> 
> As you say, a lot of grey areas.
> 
> I do know if my child had been his victim, and the police got him before I did (in which case I would be the one inside, or facing the death penalty), tonight, I would be drinking champagne.


youve just said my post :lol: u added champagne though


----------



## cookie_monster (Oct 23, 2010)

axl said:


> i dont think it would i doubt it would deter these sick people as they are sick in the head and i dont think they think of the consequences, wouldnt enter their heads surely (this is a guess of course i am not a doctor)


if that were true, then you know what would be a safe and crime free place? America!

Whoops!

Sorry, im not deliberatly arguing wiith you, it's just i view the death penalty as utterly wrong and barbaric no matter who is on the recieving end. As someone previously said, theres too many grey areas.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

cookie_monster said:


> if that were true, then you know what would be a safe and crime free place? America!
> 
> Whoops!
> 
> Sorry, im not deliberatly arguing wiith you, it's just i view the death penalty as utterly wrong and barbaric no matter who is on the recieving end. As someone previously said, theres too many grey areas.


i wouldnt argue over a difference of opinion as this is what makes us human and not drones
you call it barbaric as many do
i call it do the crime pay with time
eye for an eye
sorry thats my opinion
my parents on the other hand are different

anyone touches my kids i would quite gladly live in america if it saw justice done
these people are out in 4 to 7 years its sick for the abuse they have put people through its nothing
they have ruined a persons life there life should also be ruined 
they killed someone they loose all human right sIMO


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

cookie_monster said:


> Sorry DT, what i meant was that the wing the bacon was on is specifically for people convicted of a sex based crime OR for cons who grass or otherwise vulnerable therefore whilst the death of a paedophile is certainly nowt to lose sleep over. the people that are being applauded for killing him aren't exactly lovable rogues!


Cons with a conscience ! you don't rape nor kill a child! those that do are the low of the low and tis an unwritten rule amongst even the most hardened of offenders!!


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

To all those who believe prison is 'cushy'...

My OH's brother was arrested in Brazil in 2006. He spent 4 years in a prison in Sao Paolo eating rice and beans. He was not able to exercise. He had no source of 'entertainment' except for the prison library. There was no protection from the gangs within the prison, he saw fellow inmates stabbed. He had 1 visit to a doctor within those four years. His family were only able to visit him once a year. 

Now back in England, he is basically f*cked. Prison in Brazil has done irreparable damage to his health. He was severley malnourised and underweight (6ft 4 and 9 stone). He has no confidence and has panic attacks and virtually no hope of employment.

Maybe he deserves this punishment but the point is, he is useless now. A 24 year old lad should be contributing to the economy, working hard, paying his way. He is physically and mentally incapable of doing so. And I believe he may re offend. Most of this is caused by the hell of being in a prison where the prisoners have no human rights.

If he had been in prison in England he would have been fed properly and looked after medically. He would have been able to exercise and keep his weight up. If he had been able to stimulate his mind, he could have left prison with a degree and been working by now. 

Which is the better way of doing things?


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

bearcub said:


> To all those who believe prison is 'cushy'...
> 
> My OH's brother was arrested in Brazil in 2006. He spent 4 years in a prison in Sao Paolo eating rice and beans. He was not able to exercise. He had no source of 'entertainment' except for the prison library. There was no protection from the gangs within the prison, he saw fellow inmates stabbed. He had 1 visit to a doctor within those four years. His family were only able to visit him once a year.
> 
> ...


What did he do?
Yes, prisons in 'third world' countries are a lot more babaric than here in the UK - and a lot of offenders will suffer much more than their crime merits.

If he raped or murdered anyone, then I have no sympathy I am afraid - rapists and murderers deserve those conditions and more IMO.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

bearcub said:


> To all those who believe prison is 'cushy'...
> 
> My OH's brother was arrested in Brazil in 2006. He spent 4 years in a prison in Sao Paolo eating rice and beans. He was not able to exercise. He had no source of 'entertainment' except for the prison library. There was no protection from the gangs within the prison, he saw fellow inmates stabbed. He had 1 visit to a doctor within those four years. His family were only able to visit him once a year.
> 
> ...


well thats prisons abroad.. and without knowing what he had done (and i really do not want to as that is personal and should not be on a forum) its hard to comment really 
prisons in this country are too cushy way too cushy
medical help and fed and watered is fine and they should be doing hard labour in prison so that would be your exercise, i do not agree with xbox pool tables tellys magazines dvds, and whatever else they get IMO


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> What did he do?
> Yes, prisons in 'third world' countries are a lot more babaric than here in the UK - and a lot of offenders will suffer much more than their crime merits.
> 
> If he raped or murdered anyone, then I have no sympathy I am afraid - rapists and murderers deserve those conditions and more IMO.





axl said:


> well thats prisons abroad.. and without knowing what he had done (and i really do not want to as that is personal and should not be on a forum) its hard to comment really
> prisons in this country are too cushy way too cushy
> medical help and fed and watered is fine and they should be doing hard labour in prison so that would be your exercise, i do not agree with xbox pool tables tellys magazines dvds, and whatever else they get IMO


I don't need to say what he did, as yes, it's a private matter. But he did not rape or murder or harm anyone and no children or teenagers were involved.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

bearcub said:


> To all those who believe prison is 'cushy'...
> 
> My OH's brother was arrested in Brazil in 2006. He spent 4 years in a prison in Sao Paolo eating rice and beans. He was not able to exercise. He had no source of 'entertainment' except for the prison library. There was no protection from the gangs within the prison, he saw fellow inmates stabbed. He had 1 visit to a doctor within those four years. His family were only able to visit him once a year.
> 
> ...


My reply would depend on the crime he commited! BUT! having visited a prison in India in 1996??? ish then I know exacly how hard these places can be! In Indian prisons you get very basic bread and water as a diet and are reliant on your family sending in food! (assuming nothings changed)


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

bearcub said:


> I don't need to say what he did, as yes, it's a private matter. But he did not rape or murder or harm anyone and no children or teenagers were involved.


then no he shouldnt have been subjected to what he was... as far as i can see
as we know though prisons abroad are one of the worse and for crimes that did not harm anyone they should not be subjected to this kind of treatment no 
(i didnt ask and wouldnt btw)


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

bearcub said:


> I don't need to say what he did, as yes, it's a private matter. But he did not rape or murder or harm anyone and no children or teenagers were involved.


Drugs? ? ?
I am NOT judging! just curious NOT that I for one moment expect you to share


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

bearcub said:


> I don't need to say what he did, as yes, it's a private matter. But he did not rape or murder or harm anyone and no children or teenagers were involved.


Sorry - I should have said 'it depends on his crime'
I didn't mean to try and get you to say what he did on a public forum :blushing:

I apologise - wrong choice of words.


----------



## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

bearcub said:


> To all those who believe prison is 'cushy'...
> 
> My OH's brother was arrested in Brazil in 2006. He spent 4 years in a prison in Sao Paolo eating rice and beans. He was not able to exercise. He had no source of 'entertainment' except for the prison library. There was no protection from the gangs within the prison, he saw fellow inmates stabbed. He had 1 visit to a doctor within those four years. His family were only able to visit him once a year.
> 
> ...


Know its not related to your post but i wish the prisons over here didn't fanny about like they do...i know someone who used to 'fess up to stuff to make numbers look good, and he used to get a good ride when he was inside. As for anything involving kids...i'd suggest a rusty knife as a starter...


----------



## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

jon bda said:


> i'd suggest a rusty knife as a starter...


Nah , a rusty spoon would be better


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

bearcub said:


> To all those who believe prison is 'cushy'...
> 
> My OH's brother was arrested in Brazil in 2006. He spent 4 years in a prison in Sao Paolo eating rice and beans. He was not able to exercise. He had no source of 'entertainment' except for the prison library. There was no protection from the gangs within the prison, he saw fellow inmates stabbed. He had 1 visit to a doctor within those four years. His family were only able to visit him once a year.
> 
> ...


and for many the life in prison in england is much better than their life outside, so re-offend to get the easy life, so dont get out and get a job and pay their way.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

axl said:


> then no he shouldnt have been subjected to what he was... as far as i can see
> as we know though prisons abroad are one of the worse and for crimes that did not harm anyone they should not be subjected to this kind of treatment no
> (i didnt ask and wouldnt btw)


all crimes hurt someone to different degrees, i know these prisons abroad are very harsh, maybe too harsh for some crimes but i do think we should take on some of their ways.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

cookie_monster said:


> sex offenders are segregated for their own protection in prison in wings for vulnerable prisoners.
> 
> therefore, the cons that did him were also on that wing for a reason. Think about that.
> 
> Also, i have friends and family doing long sentences and i am massivley uncomfortable with summary justice dished out to anyone, regardless of their offence. The death penalty is NEVER justified. We are a civilised country and one of the proudest things, in my humble opinion, is that we don't have capital punishment.


They are not always segregated they can just be with other violent criminals but not neccessarily sex offenders.

I disagree the death penalty in my opinion is justified for some crimes. The beast who ruined my sisters life and her childrens is now in the same prison as Ian Bradey so he's not some poor chap who went a bit off the rails or had a bad up bringing - he is just pure evil and it would be better for everyone if he was dead. Unfortunately when other inmates tried to do this to him (early in his sentence at a different prison) they were stopped.

I think a lot of people have no idea the living hell scum like this have put people through, sometimes I think there is more compassion for animals in this country. It never came out in court that my sisters torturer had a rottie cross which he trained to attack her and the elder children if they tried to leave the house. He got fed up with it though one day for no particular reason it had not done anything he just didn't want it around any more. So he beat it to death with a golf club in the lounge in front of the children, the youngest was 2 at the time. He then calmly buried it and made the elder children clean up the blood etc from the carpet. Bet more feel he deserves summary justice for that.

You are not dealing with normal people with normal emotions, people like that cannot be rehabilitated and remain dangerous for life


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

cookie_monster said:


> sex offenders are segregated for their own protection in prison in wings for vulnerable prisoners.
> 
> therefore, the cons that did him were also on that wing for a reason. Think about that.
> 
> Also, i have friends and family doing long sentences and i am massivley uncomfortable with summary justice dished out to anyone, regardless of their offence. The death penalty is NEVER justified. We are a civilised country and one of the proudest things, in my humble opinion, is that we don't have capital punishment.


Can only comment on my ex's sentence and situation but I was told by the victim liason officer that sex offenders are put on the vulnerable/sex offenders wing at first. There they will be assessed and take part in the sex offenders programme . Then further into their sentence they will be put back into the main part of the prison where they will share their living space with other prisoners. This is when they are targeted by the other convicts who detest children/women/ beaters and rapists.


----------



## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

From what I understand from the article is that the guy was murdered because of "office" politics and not as punishment for his rape offence. Still, as despicable as his crime was, it is for the justice system and not unqualified individuals to mete out punishment. Otherwise where do you draw the line?


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

bearcub said:


> To all those who believe prison is 'cushy'...
> 
> My OH's brother was arrested in Brazil in 2006. He spent 4 years in a prison in Sao Paolo eating rice and beans. He was not able to exercise. He had no source of 'entertainment' except for the prison library. There was no protection from the gangs within the prison, he saw fellow inmates stabbed. He had 1 visit to a doctor within those four years. His family were only able to visit him once a year.
> 
> ...


Sorry if I offend by saying this BUT - if you do the crime, you do the time!
And if he never flouted the law in Brazil then he would not have ended up in prison. He now needs to get a grip and get on with life.


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Sorry if I offend by saying this BUT - if you do the crime, you do the time!
> And if he never flouted the law in Brazil then he would not have ended up in prison. *He now needs to get a grip* and get on with life.


i'm sorry but i think this is a really ignorant comment.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

metame said:


> i'm sorry but i think this is a really ignorant comment.


Not ignorant but a valid remark made by a good honest law abiding person I'd say! And one that see's some dreadful sights in her work too!
We all know the risks involved in commiting crimes overseas - we hear such horror stories of what goes on in those prisons!


----------



## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Have no sympathy for rapists or child molesters


----------



## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

DT said:


> Not ignorant but a valid remark made by a good honest law abiding person I'd say! And one that see's some dreadful sights in her work too!
> We all know the risks involved in commiting crimes overseas - we hear such horror stories of what goes on in those prisons!


ok, i was going to say 'ok' and just leave this comment as i have to go to work in a minute so wont be able to reply to anything you reply in regards to this, and i really dont want to start an argument or offend anybody BUT all through this thread people have been commenting on the the damage that criminals, mainly rapists and child molesters cause, and i think it was me who first pointed out that ALL criminals cause damage in one way or another.

im not on anybodies side, either.

HOWEVER...

i honestly think that to say 'he needs to get a grip' is a really ignorant comment.

If he actually had a mental health issue from any other reason, if he had a mental health issue from being abused as a child, say, then you would all be a bit more sympathetic to him but because he is now having issues because he was imprisoned in circumstances like that, especcially bearing in mind that only a minimal amount of people actually _know_ why he was imprisoned, then you're agreeing that he should just 'get over it' technically?

You can't just 'get over it' or 'get a grip' on any form and regardless of how or why he now has these issues the fact remains that he does, so yes, maybe ignorant is not the word i was looking for (and i have probably not explained what i want to say that well cause, lets face it, im not the best at the best of times, never mind while im eating a yogurt and have to rush to get ready for work!) but i think it was harsh and probably uncalled for.


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> Sorry if I offend by saying this BUT - if you do the crime, you do the time!
> And if he never flouted the law in Brazil then he would not have ended up in prison. *He now needs to get a grip and get on with life*.


bl**dy helpful that


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I detest Rapists of any sort - esp Child rapists - our children DO need protecting from them and the more that are taken off our streets the better!

Do I think other inmates should have killed him though ? No I dont - they too are criminals and are locked up for committing crimes - to then "big them up" because they killed someone - regardless of how heaneous the crime - does not sit right with me .....they should not get any glory or power from doing this - and imo thats WHY they do it - for power and attention to make them look good cos they know everyone hates a peodofile - now Im no do gooder! I think if you have committed a crime then yes you should be punished - by the law! not another inmate!


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

metame said:


> i'm sorry but i think this is a really ignorant comment.





bearcub said:


> bl**dy helpful that


Might not be helpful but don't suppose the crime committed was helpful either.

Sorry but I have no sympathy for criminals - and I would have the same helpful attitude if it was a member of my family - so call me ignorant all you like....:scared:


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> Might not be helpful but don't suppose the crime committed was helpful either.
> 
> Sorry but I have no sympathy for criminals - and I would have the same helpful attitude if it was a member of my family - so call me ignorant all you like....:scared:


Remember we're talking about someone who has served their time and is suffering from severe mental and physical health issues. I bet he'd love to 'get a grip' and get on with life though. Doesn't seem as simple as that though.


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

bearcub said:


> Remember we're talking about someone who has served their time and is suffering from severe mental and physical health issues. I bet he'd love to 'get a grip' and get on with life though. Doesn't seem as simple as that though.


Okay may be I was a bit blunt with 'get a grip'.

But believe me I have and do work with some very damaged people - and I do have a good understanding on mental illnesses and physical illnesses.

There is a lot of help out there - remember we always have a choice.


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

bearcub said:


> Remember we're talking about someone who has served their time and is suffering from severe mental and physical health issues. I bet he'd love to 'get a grip' and get on with life though. Doesn't seem as simple as that though.


Can I ask how long he was in Brazil for. Was he working there?


----------



## mstori (May 22, 2009)

was taking too long to read all replies, and dont know if anyone actually thought of this, but what scared me was the fact these 2 "men" had the tools to attack him in the way they did! what if it was someone else they attacked? 

I for one am all for harsh prisons (as i think you know by now lol) Id bring back chain gangs for a start! but this doesnt sit well with me.. another murder committed and i see facebook groups set up congratulating them? they were scum, which is why they were in prison, but remember the pedophiles are in a unit with other people who have committed serious offences, so these are no angels. I heard at least one was in for murder.. basically he has no morals.. so may have killed anyone in there..

As much as im glad thats one more pedo off the streets for good, this is going to cost our country thousands of pounds in compensation to the family of mitchell harrison, and what were the prison guards doing at the time? full inquest costs money too..

and yes i have been personally affected and know people who have by rape.

would be interested to see harrisons brain scan results..


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Think maybe "get a grip" was just a figure of speech and not actually meant to offend, i can understand its not as easy as that but, as for sympathy i dont think thats what criminals need or even deserve unless unlawful imprisonment, they need to be punished with a punishment that fits the crime and lets face it thats very rare in this country. i know its very harsh in other countries but think its looks much harsher because our punishment is so soft.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> Think maybe "get a grip" was just a figure of speech and not actually meant to offend, i can understand its not as easy as that but, as for sympathy i dont think thats what criminals need or even deserve unless unlawful imprisonment, they need to be punished with a punishment that fits the crime and lets face it thats very rare in this country. i know its very harsh in other countries but think its looks much harsher because our punishment is so soft.


Oh but we have a new gently gently approach now don't we? And it starts at a very early age - Norty boys get sent on holiday theses days not into detention!


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

DT said:


> Oh but we have a new gently gently approach now don't we? And it starts at a very early age - Norty boys get sent on holiday theses days not into detention!


This approach is nothing new now DT. I remember people complaining about it years ago when i was at school at that was waaaaaaay back :scared:

Did you see the hairy bikers thing on Meals on Wheels though ?? Did you see the unemploye lad ? Now what was i banging on about on here the other week, getting kids into voluntary service :thumbup:

I am not talking about nonces and murderers here but if we sorted some of the other problems out it would help.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Dont think anyone can be knocked for having no sympathy for ex prisoners/prisoners, because arnt we the ones that are at risk of them every day, we all know how high the reoffending rate is.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> This approach is nothing new now DT. I remember people complaining about it years ago when i was at school at that was waaaaaaay back :scared:
> 
> Did you see the hairy bikers thing on Meals on Wheels though ?? Did you see the unemploye lad ? Now what was i banging on about on here the other week, getting kids into voluntary service :thumbup:
> 
> I am not talking about nonces and murderers here but if we sorted some of the other problems out it would help.


Nine times out of ten rainybows t'is the parents that need to be sent into voluntary service! how to be a good parent would be a start


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

DT said:


> Nine times out of ten rainybows t'is the parents that need to be sent into voluntary service! how to be a good parent would be a start


I dont understand why we aren't doing it.

We are skint, we are slashing funds to organisations all over the place, we are meant to be The Big Society and Mr C wanted to get the long tem unemployed back in work.

Bout time we stopped worshipping money and went back to undersanding the values of a job well done and giving toss about our neighours.


----------



## vickie1985 (Feb 18, 2009)

he deserved to die. ive not read all this thread as i would be here a while. 

but from past experience and knowing what my sisters went through from our own 'uncle' its sick. If i had the chance to get my hands on him now.....i would have a good go at murder thats for sure. 

this all started happening before i was born, and my sister took another rape to save me (i was 1). That hurts me. 

totally deserve to die no matter what sick s**t goes through their heads.
wether they are ill, stupid, or evil.....they will be better off dead to protect other children.

some people will think ive been harsh here, believe me its not harsh when its happening to you or your family.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Much as I have little sympathy for people like Mitchell Harris (& my initial reaction was 'good!') is it really a good idea to let criminals hand out 'justice'? Do you really applaud these men who disembowelled him with razor blades?? 

I can honestly say that I wouldn't want people like these two making judgements regarding who deserves to die for their crimes


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Much as I have little sympathy for people like Mitchell Harris (& my initial reaction was 'good!') is it really a good idea to let criminals hand out 'justice'? Do you really applaud these men who disembowelled him with razor blades??
> 
> I can honestly say that I wouldn't want people like these two making judgements regarding who deserves to die for their crimes


No do not think its a good idea and I suspect the majority would not. I think the general feeling though is that they can find no sympathy for the dead man, thats how I feel anyway.

If there was capital punishment for the crimes he had committed he would not have been in prison to suffer this end, he would already have been dead.


----------



## Guest (Oct 5, 2011)

They had what's coming to them in my opinion, good on them, should happen to more rapists and murderers. Would empty our prisons then hey!!!


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> No do not think its a good idea and I suspect the majority would not. I think the general feeling though is that they can find no sympathy for the dead man, thats how I feel anyway.
> 
> If there was capital punishment for the crimes he had committed he would not have been in prison to suffer this end, he would already have been dead.


Just because I do not agree with another inmate butchering a pedo does not mean I have sympathy for them either! - I too think they should be dealt with where they never have contact again with anyone now if that means capital punishment for them then yes so be it - but that is done in a controlled way by professionals not by some youth with a razor blade....


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

mstori said:


> was taking too long to read all replies, and dont know if anyone actually thought of this, but what scared me was the fact these 2 "men" had the tools to attack him in the way they did! what if it was someone else they attacked?
> 
> I for one am all for harsh prisons (as i think you know by now lol) Id bring back chain gangs for a start! but this doesnt sit well with me.. another murder committed and i see facebook groups set up congratulating them? they were scum, which is why they were in prison, but remember the pedophiles are in a unit with other people who have committed serious offences, so these are no angels. I heard at least one was in for murder.. basically he has no morals.. so may have killed anyone in there..
> 
> ...


You don't need tools as such to carry out these deeds. You'd be amazed the damage a sharpened tooth brush handle can do especially when its tied to a sneakily hidden razor blade the screws didn't notice .


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

KathrynH said:


> They had what's coming to them in my opinion, good on them, should happen to more rapists and murderers. Would empty our prisons then hey!!!


You are congratulating two men who are in prison for serious crimes, I'll bet their victims won't be viewing them as the heroes that some on here are :frown:

I can't believe that people are celebrating someone (whoever they are) being butchered by razor blades - I feel sad that people can view this sort of barbarity as 'good news'


----------



## Guest (Oct 5, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> You are congratulating two men who are in prison for serious crimes, I'll bet their victims won't be viewing them as the heroes that some on here are :frown:
> 
> I can't believe that people are celebrating someone (whoever they are) being butchered by razor blades - I feel sad that people can view this sort of barbarity as 'good news'


Anybody that touched my child and i would get a razor blade to there throat so i am just as bad as them then!!


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> You are congratulating two men who are in prison for serious crimes, I'll bet their victims won't be viewing them as the heroes that some on here are :frown:
> 
> I can't believe that people are celebrating someone (whoever they are) being butchered by razor blades - I feel sad that people can view this sort of barbarity as 'good news'


No one is congratulating the blokes that did the deed - just celebrating the fact that a sicko has got his just deserts....

As for being butchered by a razor blade - maybe he knew what it felt like when he 'butchered' those innocent children -that would have hurt like hell not only in the present but for the rest of their lifes too!

Good riddance to bad rubbish I say!


----------



## mstori (May 22, 2009)

Lavenderb said:


> You don't need tools as such to carry out these deeds. You'd be amazed the damage a sharpened tooth brush handle can do especially when its tied to a sneakily hidden razor blade the screws didn't notice .


'Harrison was killed with makeshift weapons, thought to be razor blades melted into toothbrush handles.'

why are they allowed razor blades in their cells or toothbrushes for that matter?

a thin mattress on the floor and a hole in the ground for a toilet is all i would give them!


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

mstori said:


> 'Harrison was killed with makeshift weapons, thought to be razor blades melted into toothbrush handles.'
> 
> why are they allowed razor blades in their cells or toothbrushes for that matter?
> 
> a thin mattress on the floor and a hole in the ground for a toilet is all i would give them!


Because things can get lax. Prisoners can 'earn ' the trust of the officers and get benefits.
Don't kid yourself these prisons are tight with their rules. How do you think drugs etc get smuggled in. Don't forget their HUMAN RIGHTS also!


----------



## mstori (May 22, 2009)

Lavenderb said:


> Because things can get lax. Prisoners can 'earn ' the trust of the officers and get benefits.
> Don't kid yourself these prisons are tight with their rules. How do you think drugs etc get smuggled in. Don't forget their HUMAN RIGHTS also!


i know exactly what they are like thats why i campaign.

the world has gone crazy! dont get me started on pc and human rights :lol:


----------



## vickie1985 (Feb 18, 2009)

oh as for Ian Huntley.....well.....

we lived next door but 1 to him when i was 1-2. 
Maxine car used to babysit my sister!! 

too close to home.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

vickie1985 said:


> oh as for Ian Huntley.....well.....
> 
> we lived next door but 1 to him when i was 1-2.
> Maxine car used to babysit my sister!!
> ...


OMG really!!!:scared:


----------



## vickie1985 (Feb 18, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> OMG really!!!:scared:


yup. scary scary stuff. i dont remember them so its not so bad for me lol


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

vickie1985 said:


> yup. scary scary stuff. i dont remember them so its not so bad for me lol


Yeah thats a good thing then! terrible


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

vickie1985 said:


> oh as for Ian Huntley.....well.....
> 
> we lived next door but 1 to him when i was 1-2.
> Maxine car used to babysit my sister!!
> ...


omg that must give you a really strange feeling.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I remember when huntley took that overdose, how it must have felt for the medical staff fighting to save his life, they are proffesionals and to save a life is their job, but afterall they are still human.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I remember when huntley took that overdose, how it must have felt for the medical staff fighting to save his life, they are proffesionals and to save a life is their job, but afterall they are still human.


See i couldn't inflict a punishment but i couldn't have saved his life. Soham isn't far from me


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> See i couldn't inflict a punishment but i couldn't have saved his life. Soham isn't far from me


I know exactly what you mean there. Isnt it, bet it was awful then at the time.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I know exactly what you mean there. Isnt it, bet it was awful then at the time.


The place never really recoverred. It will always have that awful association


----------



## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

A life is still a life and whats good for one is good for us all. Murder is murder.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I think they should be put to good use - experimentation. After all, the scientists would get a much more accurate result and it would save millions of innocent animals, who have harmed no one, whilst these low lifes carry on getting fed three times a day.


I've been saying this for years, would at least mean these vile individuals would be contributing to society


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Tanya1989 said:


> A life is still a life and whats good for one is good for us all. Murder is murder.


Sounds good that - 'whats good for one is good for another!
so he should be subjected to gang rape whilst inside?
A taste of his own medicine


----------



## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

DT said:


> Sounds good that - 'whats good for one is good for another!
> so he should be subjected to gang rape whilst inside?
> A taste of his own medicine


They could contribute to society in some way (drug trials etc etc) and help save someones life rather than pointlessly waste another life. Yes he did a terrible terrible thing, but the people who killed him did a worse thing. They stopped him being able to repent.... Who knows, he may have gone on to find a cure for some horrific disease that is taking the lives of millions others. We'll never know now


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Tanya1989 said:


> They could contribute to society in some way (drug trials etc etc) and help save someones life rather than pointlessly waste another life. Yes he did a terrible terrible thing, but the people who killed him did a worse thing. They stopped him being able to repent.... Who knows, he may have gone on to find a cure for some horrific disease that is taking the lives of millions others. We'll never know now


Well looking on the bright side they have certainly removed him from the gene pool


----------



## Guest (Oct 5, 2011)

Tanya1989 said:


> They could contribute to society in some way (drug trials etc etc) and help save someones life rather than pointlessly waste another life. Yes he did a terrible terrible thing, but the people who killed him did a worse thing. They stopped him being able to repent.... Who knows, he may have gone on to find a cure for some horrific disease that is taking the lives of millions others. We'll never know now


I am sorry but someone raped my child and he ends up doing some "drug trials" or helping society!!! 

We are all entitled to our own opinions but i have to disagree with you on this.


----------



## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

KathrynH said:


> I am sorry but someone raped my child and he ends up doing some "drug trials" or helping society!!!
> 
> We are all entitled to our own opinions but i have to disagree with you on this.


Your well within your right to. Personally, I could never condone intentionally taking a life without at least the persons wish (although I'm still not sure where I draw the line with regards to euthanasia etc).

However, what I would want if ever put in the position of being the parent of a rape victim, I don't know, and seriously hope that my questionible feelings towards it are never answered.


----------



## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

DT said:


> Well looking on the bright side they have certainly removed him from the gene pool


Don't think its likely to qualify for a Darwin award though


----------

