# Contracts from Breeders - legally binding or not?



## cemme (Oct 17, 2017)

I have a question about cat contracts, out of curiosity rather than 'I want to' or 'my friend wants to know'. When you buy a any pedigree cat you get a contract that goes with it. These contracts tend to vary based on the breeder and how passionate (crazy) they are. Ive noticed recently that people were commenting that their breeder would put in a clause that says the cat must be indoors only (the breed in question are Maine Coons). Is this legally binding? Could the breeder sue for the cat back if they found the owner was letting it out? I can understand neutering/spaying but it feels like telling someone where they can put their cat is unreasonable. I believe all contracts regardless of country need to be deemed as reasonable. Is this legally enforceable? In my mind its like buying a any car and the dealership then saying 'you can never take it out of your drive way'.

To be clear, Im not looking to break any contract with a breeder, my breeders have never had such clauses in their contracts (apparently Im very lucky with this) but Im curious for those who do have it.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and opinions on the matter!


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't know if anyone has ever tried to enforce such a clause in their contract but I do know how devastating it is, as a breeder, to be told that one of your kittens has lost its life in an accident on the road. I don't put it in my contracts but do ask that owners make sure they are aware of the risks.


----------



## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

I don't know about the legality of it but I couldn't take a precious baby from a caring breeder and ignore their wishes... doesn't sit right with me at all!


----------



## Smuge (Feb 6, 2017)

I highly doubt it in practice, at least in most cases.

Though I took Tali's breeders wishes very seriously and would highly suggest you do the same


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Any contract is only 'legal' to the extent that a civil court will endorse it. The only time I have seen a solicitor in an attempt to enforce a contract, it seemed almost impossible. Even if the court finds in the breeder's favour, the owner can refuse to honour the judgment and no action can be taken. Bailiffs are not an option. I did not actually go to court because I was not wanting a financial settlement. I wanted my cats back in order to get them the veterinary care they required.

When I was breeding I was shocked at the lack of integrity of so many people who would agree to the conditions by signing the contract and then flout them whenever they wished.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I doubt such a clause would be legally enforceable but I would not like to sign a contract under false pretences, i.e. if I intended to allow the cat out against the wishes of the breeder. It would be deceitful and arrogant to do such a thing IMO.


----------



## Nicholas86 (Feb 5, 2015)

I once had advice from a solicitor who said it'll cost £750 for 10 copy's & the agreement would be inforced if broken.


----------



## ribbon (Apr 16, 2012)

QOTN said:


> When I was breeding I was shocked at the lack of integrity of so many people who would agree to the conditions by signing the contract and then flout them whenever they wished.


I would never have expected this and find it so sad. I would've thought the process of buying a pedigree kitten would be thought hard about and if a contract from a particular breeder really didn't suit for some reason, I certainly wouldn't sign it knowing I planned to break it. What is wrong with people?


----------



## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

cemme said:


> I believe all contracts regardless of country need to be deemed as reasonable. Is this legally enforceable?


I think it depends on the clauses therein and also on the judge and his/her interpretation of the facts at the end of the day. For example you mention that in your mind its like buying a any car and the dealership then saying 'you can never take it out of your drive way'. However when one buys a car the reasonable expectation is that they are doing so to get themselves from A to B, therefore the dealership saying you cannot do this would be deemed unreasonable. However in the case of a pedigree cat, the judge may deem the breeders requirement that the cat be kept indoors as reasonable.

Whether a contract is or is not enforceable it is a simple matter of morals, and I cannot understand the mindset of a person who cheerfully signs something agreeing to not do something then going ahead and doing it anyway.


----------



## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

Ringypie said:


> I don't know about the legality of it but I couldn't take a precious baby from a caring breeder and ignore their wishes... doesn't sit right with me at all!


I am with you on this


----------



## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Ringypie said:


> I don't know about the legality of it but I couldn't take a precious baby from a caring breeder and ignore their wishes... doesn't sit right with me at all!


It does depend on the wishes as well though, a friends cats breeder for example asked for the cat to fed dry food.

Generally such contracts cannot be enforced as they would be considered an unfair exclusion, a bit like a no pet clause in a rental agreement, it cannot be enforced.


----------



## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

cemme said:


> I believe all contracts regardless of country need to be deemed as reasonable.


In the UK this is covered by the Unfair Contracts Act 1977 - the most important bit of which refers to limiting the applicability of disclaimers of liability.

I would say that yes, by entering into a contract you are agreeing to those terms and failure to do should could and should result in action being taken against you. The basic fact is that the breeder is entering into a contract of sale with the buyer, the terms of which are within the contract. Simply put, if you don't like the terms of the contract, you are free to walk away from the sale and find another breeder. To sign a contract you have no intention of adhering to is unethical

Courts also put a lot of faith in what a "reasonable person" person would think - also known as "the man on the Clapham omnibus" - e.g. a normal, bog standard person.

So I would say that a contract saying the car must be indoors is fair. If you kept the cat indoors but it accidentally got out and was injured, then it would be unreasonable for the breeder to try and reclaim the cat, after all you had tried your best to keep the cat indoors and it was an accident that it got out - the courts would clearly find that to be an unreasonable act as a "normal" person would also find taht unreasonable

what happens in the courts is of course another matter and I'd imagine that a lot of courts wouldn't really understand how important it is to a breeder to have those terms adhered to .


----------



## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Vanessa131 said:


> It does depend on the wishes as well though, a friends cats breeder for example asked for the cat to fed dry food.
> 
> Generally such contracts cannot be enforced as they would be considered an unfair exclusion, a bit like a no pet clause in a rental agreement, it cannot be enforced.


But you can kick a tenant out for breach of contract if they haven't asked permission. The unfair exclusion bit relates to the 'permission required' part being excluded from the tenancy agreement which you aren't allowed to do.


----------



## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

Vanessa131 said:


> It does depend on the wishes as well though, a friends cats breeder for example asked for the cat to fed dry food.
> .


In which case I would have chosen another breeder who's wishes I agreed with. The thing is a reputable breeder puts so much into their kittens, for me I feel it is unfair to sign something and not follow it.... it's not fair on the breeder who trusts you with one of their babies for you to then cherrypick which terms to follow and which to ignore.


----------



## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

MilleD said:


> But you can kick a tenant out for breach of contract if they haven't asked permission. The unfair exclusion bit relates to the 'permission required' part being excluded from the tenancy agreement which you aren't allowed to do.


You can't as a tenants right to quiet enjoyment of the property rightly comes first. There are two things that can end a tenancy, the tenant themselves, or a court, clauses such as no pets, no smoking etc are not enforceable and therefore not a reason for a court to order a landlord to take posession of a property.


----------



## mewtoo (Aug 31, 2017)

I would imagine that a clause specifying reasonable steps taken to ensure the cat's safety, for example by not allowing it to stray outside the boundary of property, would be reasonable, but specifying how this must be done, for example by insisting that the cat must be kept indoors, would not.

The cat may or may not benefit from having the run of a garden.
"Meow, meow, meow, MEOW, MEOW, MEOW!"
"Sorry, Fluffy, I can't let you out because I have signed a piece of paper."


----------



## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

Rat breeders' contracts aren't legally binding. But most people still use them because of the hope of putting pet homes in the right frame of mind, and making it clear that the breeder still cares about the animals even when they've been homed etc.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I understand if a new owner had cat proof run or patio/ garden and used it.
It would be reasonable.This is the true meaning of the contract - cat should be safe.
Or cat trained to walk in the fenced garden on the lead.


----------



## bluecordelia (Jan 5, 2014)

I was upfront with my breeder ie she would go out. I also adhered to neuter her as I didn’t want kittens, hate BYB’s , wouldn’t want her to go through a birth and also as she was not the best breeding /example of her breed. Also it’s the right thing to do. 

I know some breeders would not allow me to have one of their kittens. 
I don’t think a contract could be enforced as the cost would be large. I would understand any breeder whose contract was not upheld and they were upset.


----------



## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

I never had a contract with mine but it was requested that I keep him as an indoor cat. I was in full agreement with that but 18 months down the line after reaching the end of my tether with pooing in the house I made the decision to let my cat out. 

I wouldn't purposely go against a breeders wishes but things change and as the owner I believe it's up to me to do what is best for us as an entire family.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

The question to ask with any clause in a contract is 'or what'. Unless the consequence of not complying with the terms and conditions are spelt out then what exactly would a breeder do to 'enforce' it, what legal remedy would they be looking for? Strictly speaking the 'contract' is nothing more than an agreement to hand over goods for an agreed price. Anything else is t&cs. Once the goods are paid for (even partially) then that contract is agreed - t&cs can't be added later. Breeders shouldn't take a single penny from a buyer before the full terms are agreed and signed off but most take a deposit and don't give the buyer sight of the contract until they've paid the balance on pick up.


----------



## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@havoc 
I never bought from a breeder but would imagine if indoors was important to them, they would be upfront about it on initial inquiries. Indoors was a stipulation of the Humane Society my sister adopted from. They also required references.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Summercat said:


> I never bought from a breeder but would imagine if indoors was important to them, they would be upfront about it on initial inquiries


There's nothing in any contract which can take the place of proper screening of potential buyers


----------



## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

oggers86 said:


> I never had a contract with mine but it was requested that I keep him as an indoor cat. I was in full agreement with that but 18 months down the line after reaching the end of my tether with pooing in the house I made the decision to let my cat out.
> 
> I wouldn't purposely go against a breeders wishes but things change and as the owner I believe it's up to me to do what is best for us as an entire family.


This is slightly different though - you didn't buy the cat with the intent to go against wishes - situations and circumstances meant you had to try other things, with the cat's welfare in mind!


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

cemme said:


> These contracts tend to vary based on the breeder and how passionate (crazy) they are.


Not sure why caring about their kittens and having certain clauses makes a breeder crazy.

We are upfront about our contract and have taken back a cat who's owner was in breach of contract.


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

spotty cats said:


> Not sure why caring about their kittens and having certain clauses makes a breeder crazy.
> 
> We are upfront about our contract and* have taken back a cat who's owner was in breach of contract*.


How did you manage to retrieve your cat?


----------



## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

Ringypie said:


> This is slightly different though - you didn't buy the cat with the intent to go against wishes - situations and circumstances meant you had to try other things, with the cat's welfare in mind!


No that's true. In the past when we were looking for Bengals I told them I wanted to let them out. The breeder I liked wasn't willing to let me have one so we went to a rescue where they requested outdoor access.

I can see it from both sides, as a breeder you want to protect your cats so you request they are not let out but as an owner you want to be the one to make that decision.

I think most people who buy a properly bred pedigree don't do things on a whim so I kind of feel like if they believe the cat would be ok outdoors then that's their choice.


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

oggers86 said:


> I think most people who buy a properly bred pedigree don't do things on a whim so I kind of feel like* if they believe the cat would be ok outdoors then that's their choice*.


Not if that is flouting the conditions of a contract they have signed.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

QOTN said:


> Not if that is flouting the conditions of a contract they have signed


It's more of a moral issue than a legal one though - at least in terms of remedy. Animals are treated as property in law so the owner has control and is entitled to do as they wish with their property. I liken it to a vegetarian selling a fridge - they can't stipulate that the new owner doesn't keep meat in it.


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

QOTN said:


> How did you manage to retrieve your cat?


Asked for his return, they put him on the plane and back he came. Easy 
He was then rehomed and lives a great life with the new owners.


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

havoc said:


> It's more of a moral issue than a legal one though - at least in terms of remedy. Animals are treated as property in law so the owner has control and is entitled to do as they wish with their property. I liken it to a vegetarian selling a fridge - they can't stipulate that the new owner doesn't keep meat in it.


Yes it is a moral issue. Unfortunately many people do not feel obliged to honour the contracts they sign.



spotty cats said:


> Asked for his return, they put him on the plane and back he came. Easy
> He was then rehomed and lives a great life with the new owners.


He was lucky. I failed to retrieve my girls and even my offer to pay their vet's bills was refused.


----------



## Smuge (Feb 6, 2017)

QOTN said:


> even my offer to pay their vet's bills was refused.


That is an odd one


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

An amusing and recent (and true!) 'contract story' ... Breeder in country A sells kitten to breeder in country B. There is a contract that the new owner must not send any offspring back into country A.

Some time later the owner moves back to her home country - which happens to be where the cat originated from - and takes with her offspring of the cat she purchased. Breeder in country A tries to sue her under the terms of the contract.


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Smuge said:


> That is an odd one


The girls needed dentals and the owner said she could not bear them to lose their teeth. The vet said the cats could not bear to *keep* their teeth but it made no difference. For all I know, they are still suffering.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

gskinner123 said:


> Breeder in country A tries to sue her under the terms of the contract.


And .......................
You can't leave me hanging


----------



## Smuge (Feb 6, 2017)

QOTN said:


> The girls needed dentals and the owner said she could not bear them to lose their teeth. The vet said the cats could not bear to *keep* their teeth but it made no difference. For all I know, they are still suffering.


How sad


----------



## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

QOTN said:


> Not if that is flouting the conditions of a contract they have signed.


That's why I'm not a huge fan of contracts. I want to be able to make that decision. If I somehow end up buying a house with acres of land I wouldn't want indoor cats yet would still want a pedigree, breeder stipulates I must keep cat inside so no I can't have their cat.


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

oggers86 said:


> That's why I'm not a huge fan of contracts. I want to be able to make that decision. If I somehow end up buying a house with acres of land I wouldn't want indoor cats yet would still want a pedigree, breeder stipulates I must keep cat inside so no I can't have their cat.


I do not have a problem with somebody who wants to buy a cat without signing a contract. That is their choice and they will certainly be able to do find one, since many breeders do not have contracts. My complaint is about people who buy a kitten from a reputable breeder, sign a contract and then break their word.


----------



## cemme (Oct 17, 2017)

spotty cats said:


> Not sure why caring about their kittens and having certain clauses makes a breeder crazy.
> 
> We are upfront about our contract and have taken back a cat who's owner was in breach of contract.


Can I ask what part of the contract your buyer breached?

Im not tarring all breeders who have clauses with same the crazy brush... 

In my research (asking people about their contracts, google, here, etc) I've come across a huge variation of contracts, some contracts with so many clauses that they tell the buyer what to do with every single aspect of the pet life (food, litter, not to be around children (?!), monthly updates with pictures, yearly assessments, what vet to use, etc), I find this to be overly passionate (crazy). Honestly it just makes me question how the breeders have time to breed if they are chasing up all the points they request and are being bombarded with their requests.

Just to be clear, Im not saying all breeders who use a contract with clauses are crazy and my apologies if it came across that way.


----------



## cemme (Oct 17, 2017)

gskinner123 said:


> An amusing and recent (and true!) 'contract story' ... Breeder in country A sells kitten to breeder in country B. There is a contract that the new owner must not send any offspring back into country A.
> 
> Some time later the owner moves back to her home country - which happens to be where the cat originated from - and takes with her offspring of the cat she purchased. Breeder in country A tries to sue her under the terms of the contract.


Oh this is interesting!!! What was the outcome?


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> There's nothing in any contract which can take the place of proper screening of potential buyers


Indeed. I don't have a contract. Instead all my kittens are neutered before they leave me and potential owners have to visit and be given a cat scan  However it helps that a lot of people in the cities and larger towns bear me (Edinburgh Glasgow, Dundee, Stirling etc.) live in flats, so going out isn't an issue.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I never had contracts either because I considered them pointless. How on earth is a breeder meant to keep watch 24/7 on every kitten they ever breed in its new home and even if you could, what would you do about it? I've been criticised (on this forum as well as in the real world) for being too picky when choosing where my kittens go but I'm always happy about where they're going and a signature on a piece of paper wouldn't make any difference.


----------



## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

The question should never arise, if you do not want to abide by the breeders "requirements" then choose a different breeder.

Personally I don't need to sign a contract, I love my pets too much to risk injury or death by letting them out, nor do I intend to breed whether the cat is on the active register or not.

I do take my cats out into the garden and round the circle on a harness and lead but I don't feel I have breached a contract as my boys are safe whilst exploring the outside world. I only have Bellini now but if I felt Bellini's breeder would be upset or hurt by this I would stop. He has an outdoor pen and he is happy in there too.

I have had 9 - 10 years of poo in the house (albeit in the litter trays - with the occasional miss), got a puppy now too, easily cleaned up, a spray clean to refresh, job done. There will always be the odd accident now and again, even when the puppy is fully housetrained.


----------



## Litac (4 mo ago)

cemme said:


> I have a question about cat contracts, out of curiosity rather than 'I want to' or 'my friend wants to know'. When you buy a any pedigree cat you get a contract that goes with it. These contracts tend to vary based on the breeder and how passionate (crazy) they are. Ive noticed recently that people were commenting that their breeder would put in a clause that says the cat must be indoors only (the breed in question are Maine Coons). Is this legally binding? Could the breeder sue for the cat back if they found the owner was letting it out? I can understand neutering/spaying but it feels like telling someone where they can put their cat is unreasonable. I believe all contracts regardless of country need to be deemed as reasonable. Is this legally enforceable? In my mind its like buying a any car and the dealership then saying 'you can never take it out of your drive way'.
> 
> To be clear, Im not looking to break any contract with a breeder, my breeders have never had such clauses in their contracts (apparently Im very lucky with this) but Im curious for those who do have it.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your thoughts and opinions on the matter!


Provided a contract is correctly executed and witnessed it is enforceable.
By signing it you agree that the terms are reasonable to you so that argument doesn’t wash. There is also no imbalance of power or duress as buying a kitten is not necessary for your survival.
Breeders who state their cats are indoor cats - as we do- are NOT saying that the cat cannot go outside. They are saying the cat cannot be allowed to roam. Cats are still allowed outside in say a catio or secured garden or on a leash or any way which they are protected.

pedigree cats do not have the same road sense as moggies which in my opinion, even they should not be allowed to roam it’s irresponsible pet ownership and they often do get run over poisoned attacked by other animals or cruel people but with pedigree cats it’s worse as they don’t have the same instincts and also are at greater risk of being stolen.

it’s unfortunate that breeders even need to have contracts to state the obvious, even more unfortunate that some will sign then do what they want anyway.

and no, it’s not the same as telling you to keep a car on a drive. Firstly a car is not alive and Secondly a car’s function is to take you places, therefore you cannot have use and enjoyment of a car that has to sit on a drive. A cat doesn’t need to be put at risk of dying by being allowed to roam outside for someone to enjoy them as a pet .


----------



## tristy (5 mo ago)

some interesting points, however the thread is 5 years old


----------

