# Confession Time... I enquired about adopting a kitten



## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I know I posted a while ago about thinking of getting another cat/kitten and in the end decided not to (but adopted a new bunny for my lonely one that had just lost his partner). I know the response was mixed - (I am not going to pretend that I'm doing it for Lola's benefit...)

But I have enquired at the rescue about adopting a kitten (I will only go the rescue route), I am still waiting a call back so it might be that I'm not suitable (I know some rescues don't rehome kittens to people that work full time). They have a 13 week old tabby and white boy there at the moment that I have enquired about who is described as shy and wanted a quiet adult home.

In the mean time I am tidying up my spare room so a to make it a "safe room" for the kittens arrival (it is also a room Lola goes into infrequently). My spare room is mainly junk... and is already becoming clearer. It's the size of a small double but has no bed in it! I have a few question about the safe room:

* currently the houses my tumble drier - I don't have anywhere else practical to put it (I open the wonder to vent it), would this matter? it gets used infrequently and obviously wouldn't use with the cat in the room.

* the wardrobe in here only had a fabric curtain door - I'm right in thinking that I would need to replace with a wooden door or the kitten would be climbing up the curtain and my "posh" dresses inside?? (yes of course I could move the dresses, this wardrobe serves as an overflow for infrequently worn closes)

* I've some storage boxes in there, will this matter?

* Windows - can anyone recommend any window screening that would allow the windows to be opened for fresh air but still cat safe (i.e. the cat wouldn't be able to get out), I could also do with some for my bedroom windows...

* I've also heard of screens for the door, so cats can meet but with a barrier (any advice)?

I have a list of things to buy but I'm not inclined to spend huge amounts of money until I'm approved as it could be a waste: bowls, mat, litter tray, scratching post, cardboard scratcher, bed (although the worse case scenario would be Lola has some extras/the rescue will have some donations) .

I'll take some photos, later but the room isn't photo ready at the moment 

My biggest concern is any new cat not getting on with Lola... she has lived on her own for a year and a half now before that I do not know...

Hannah


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Nice to have my suspicions confirmed.
I don't have window screens but window restrictors ( which I got from the double glazing firm that did my Windows). This means I can leave my windows permanently open for ventilation. Not sure I'd feel confident leaving a screened window open for any length of time if I'm not around.


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Why am I not astonished at all? 
Great news!

I have my windows protected with flatcats netting:
http://flatcats.co.uk/ 
It withstands Annie's climbing efforts but I wouldn't leave my windows wide open without being around anyway.

For a screendoor a regular keep-out-insects one will do:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/vidaXL-Hin...+screen+door&qid=1565162801&s=gateway&sr=8-20

Storage boxes doesn't sound like something a cat wouldn't like. The new family member could use them for jumping on and as a vantage point.

The wardrobe should indeed better have a wooden door or the dresses be moved, they sound like perfect climbing material. 

The tumble drier as such is no problem, once the cat is settled and feeling confident using it is no problem, either. Bonny always accompanied me into the basement and loved to rest on the tumble drier while it tumbled. She enjoyed the rumbling under her belly.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thank you both for your replies...

I have never heard of window restrictors before, I can put my windows on the latch (which gives about a 5mm gap which doesn't allow a huge amount of air in but it cat secure). The screens seem a better option for when I'm about (I wouldn't leave windows open when I was out). Good to hear they have withstood Annie's antics 

Hopefully Ikea haven't change the size of their Pax wardrobes recently and I can buy a door to fit...

Just make sure the tumble drier is empty before putting it on


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Awww lovie! You know what’s best for you even tho you got mixed opinions. Both cats getting on would be my only concern. The rest is easy enough to sort out. How old are the kittens you’re interested in? xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@Soozi yes getting on with Lola is by main concern - as you say the remainder is easy to sort out...

I will be reading lots on how to do introductions...

The one that has caught my eye was featured on facebook 2 and a half weeks ago as a 11 week old boy - tabby and white. I have heard from his fosterer so I'm just trying to arrange a time to go an meet him. The rescue is run through a network of fosterers, they don't have a centre. The other kittens they put on a weeks or so ago all got reserved quickly but not this little guy... not sure why, I can ask when I visit..

Hannah


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Congratulations on your potential new family member. Personally I've never used a screen door, rather a faff and a waste of time imo, especially when introducing a kitten. But it's your choice of course!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Willow_Warren - I hope you get some good news about adopting about a kitten .

Glad to hear you're considering using a mesh screen door! They are a wonderful invention - a stress free method of introducing a new cat or kitten to the resident cat (or cats). Not only stress free for the cats but stress free for the human residents too. I'm all for reducing stress wherever one can and having harmonious feline household.

I started using a mesh screen door for new cat and kitten introductions 6 yrs ago and wish I had started using them 40 years ago! It would have made life so much easier for everyone.


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## Pepperpots (Apr 3, 2016)

If you’re getting a kitten and are out at work, I’d recommend getting two. That way they won’t get lonely and will always have a playmate.


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

Fingers crossed they decide that the tabby boy is a good fit for for you!

I've done a lot of kitten intros but like @Rufus15 I've never used a screen door. I used Streme for a window screen and it's really good. I worried my two kittens (9 months old now) would try to climb up it and pull it off, but the mesh isn't climb-able (they haven't tried anyway).

Re the storage boxes, it depends on what they are like - can he get in them and rummage? Or are they just stacked up? He'd probably like climbing them, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as they are stable and won't fall on him. I try to leave interesting but safe things in the 'safe room' so the kitten can explore and amuse himself.

My kittens love 'igloo' beds, but you may already have something else in mind. Mine is ages old, from PAH I think, but there are loads on Amazon.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So I am going to meet Andre tomorrow. He hasn't had he best start in life and was born in a shed out in someones garden  He is apparently extremely nervous and has unfortunately also been in a number of different foster homes within the rescue so not really had a chance to settle there. His foster-er said that he's not like usual kittens and won't come out and play but does come out to play when he thinks no one's looking.

She did emphasise that I if I don't feel Andre is right once I meet him I shouldn't feel badly about saying he's not the one...

Yes I work full time but I can go home at lunchtimes and I can also work from home (not all day every day but some days or half days).

I was looking for a kitten as I thought Lola might accept a kitten better than she would a adult cat.. and I fancy a boy! Lola might be too intimidated by two kittens... (I know any scenario is a risk that it might upset the relationship with Lola).

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Has the kitten been with any other cats in the foster homes?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I will check tomorrow, but I believe he is currently on his own.


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

Poor little guy. He sounds a bit like my semi feral who was very timid when she first arrived. She started off by running behind a cupboard and refusing to come out. For the first week I shut her in the lounge overnight, when the house went quiet I would hear her running around chatting to her toys  It didn't take her long to come out of her shell.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

chillminx said:


> @Willow_Warren - I hope you get some good news about adopting about a kitten .
> 
> Glad to hear you're considering using a mesh screen door! They are a wonderful invention - a stress free method of introducing a new cat or kitten to the resident cat (or cats). Not only stress free for the cats but stress free for the human residents too. I'm all for reducing stress wherever one can and having harmonious feline household.
> 
> I started using a mesh screen door for new cat and kitten introductions 6 yrs ago and wish I had started using them 40 years ago! It would have made life so much easier for everyone.


Have to agree about using mesh for intros. Tonks are generally pretty easy on introductions, but the screen has worked as some added security - especially since we have done multi cat intros. Ours was only half height rather than a full door, but I honestly think it helped with introducing Jammy and then Waffles in a relatively stress free way.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thank you, I certainly appreciate the advice 

Hannah


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Oh he sounds adorable @Willow_Warren - I think it's so sad that he hasn't had a chance yet because he's on the shy side but maybe it's meant to be. Having someone as knowledgeable as a PF mumma to give him a start would make him a very lucky boy.

I'm excited for you, I hope it all works out for the best!

Ali x


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Hopefully all will be well and if anything you have all cat chat to back you up!!!
What can go wrong?

Photos required.


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## Gallifreyangirl (Feb 11, 2015)

keep us updated @Willow_Warren and hope the kitten is good for you.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Impatient for news! Lol! xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I’m not seeing him till 6pm this evening. I have my cat socks on for good luck 

They put another photo on him on Facebook this morning, shows him off better than the first :Kiss. Not sure it’s right to share the photo her as he’s not my cat...

Hannah


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> I'm not seeing him till 6pm this evening. I have my cat socks on for good luck
> 
> They put another photo on him on Facebook this morning, shows him off better than the first :Kiss. Not sure it's right to share the photo her as he's not my cat...
> 
> Hannah


How do we find him on Fb Willow?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2309242195862651&id=756607041126182

Here you go! He's on eye drops at the minute but the vet doesn't suspect anything serious.

Just spent an hour with him... yes he's shy but he did allow me to go up to him and seemed to relax into my hand a little as I have him some gentle neck/chin tickles and a stroke.

Hannah

P.s.

Here's a little photo they i took of him whilst I was there 








He apparently likes that little bed.


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

He’s a real cutie! Not so very awfully shy if he let you touch him on your first visit.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

So what’s your verdict hun! Is he the one? He looks absolutely gorgeous! ❤ xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

No the fosterer said she was surprised, I was extremely quiet and let him sniff my finger before gradually going in for a stroke!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I’m going to sleep on it! (Or more likely not sleep!)

She read his vet notes and if I remember rightly his eye drops are for mild viral conjunctivitis - is this something I should worry about?

H


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> No the fosterer said she was surprised, I was extremely quiet and let him sniff my finger before gradually going in for a stroke!


Has he chosen you then?


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I'm going to sleep on it! (Or more likely not sleep!)
> 
> She read his vet notes and if I remember rightly his eye drops are for mild viral conjunctivitis - is this something I should worry about?
> 
> H


They can clear conjunctivitis easily enough. Is there something holding you back?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Soozi said:


> They can clear conjunctivitis easily enough. Is there something holding you back?


My only concern is that him and Lola won't get on, but that would be the same with any cat and I'm never going to know till I try!

I'm not concerned with his shyness... I could of course be wrong but my gut feeling is that he'll be fine with time. I'm sure he enjoyed his little stroke of he wouldn't have relaxed his head into me hand ( although I probably shouldn't read too much into one small action).

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> My only concern is that him and Lola won't get on, but that would be the same with any cat and I'm never going to know till I try!
> 
> I'm not concerned with his shyness... I could of course be wrong but my gut feeling is that he'll be fine with time. I'm sure he enjoyed his little stroke of he wouldn't have relaxed his head into me hand ( although I probably shouldn't read too much into one small action).
> 
> Hannah


It's hard to tell! I think my Saffy will always be nervous. Some completely come out of their shell others don't. 
You are right you won't know until you get him home hun. As long as you felt a connection with him I would think it would be fine. Is Lola a gentle girl?


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Aww he sounds adorable. 

Ok so I am going to buck the trend and say if it were me I’d be trying quick intros as long as you have a few days to be around. 

My reasoning is he’s so young. And Lola is still fairly young. She’s used to other animals being around - bunnies - so another little one she may not see as a huge threat. Indeed you never know she may have mothering instincts (Grace did with Little H and she was just over a year old). Also he is still young enough to remember he had siblings and a Mum so may easily want to be friends with Lola.

Play is a great way of getting them introduced. 

I’ve always done quick intros as long as the cats are gentle enough - it’s going to take 3/4 weeks for the scent of you and Lola and home to be the same on the little one anyhow and he is such an impressionable age in terms of learning and bonding it would be a shame if he was stuck in a spare room for a month. 

I would be inclined to have the room in case but give it a go.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Yes!!! Lovely!!! Just see how they get on ...


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

He's sweet. You'll have to get him a similar bed if you decide to have him


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks for everyone's replies!

Didn't sleep well (not just thinking of Andre but it was raining rather hard at times), I have been looking at scratching posts! There are so many to choose from!

I did see on amazon that Trixie do those little beds to add to scratching posts. Amazon is great as they do Sunday delivery, but a lot to filter through for good ones.

I'm certain Andre will hide when he first comes here (_if_ of course it's not finalised yet!) and it will take him a little time to come around. I imagine he is lonely at the moment as his siblings and mummy have all gone to their new homes leaving him in his own.

Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

I can absolutely recommend the natural paradise post. It's great in not taking up a lot of space and it's more challenging than the ordinary ones. 
Don't know, of course, how quickly Zooplus deliver in the UK.
Here it takes about 4 days on average.
https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/scratching_posts/scratching_posts/408384

Little Andre must feel rather left over, poor little boy.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

ChaosCat said:


> I can absolutely recommend the natural paradise post. It's great in not taking up a lot of space and it's more challenging than the ordinary ones.
> Don't know, of course, how quickly Zooplus deliver in the UK.
> Here it takes about 4 days on average.
> https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/scratching_posts/scratching_posts/408384
> ...


I think it might be a little tall at 219cm - I measured my room from floor to ceiling and it's only 226cm. Shame they don't do anything between the medium and xxl... (houses built in the 1950s weren't known for their tall ceilings...)

I do love it though


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

He's gorgeous. I always feel sorry for the last one left behind on their own but his luck is about to change. Hope he's home with you soon and all goes OK with lovely Lola.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

When would you bring him home hun? I’m like you I worry for nothing! I’m sure everything will work out great a new beginning for you all! xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Waiting to hear if I need another home check. If I don't then I can pick him up anytime.

I need to get out shopping - will go [email protected] and TKMaxx at lunchtime...


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Waiting to hear if I need another home check. If I don't then I can pick him up anytime.
> 
> I need to get out shopping - will go [email protected] and TKMaxx at lunchtime...


I love Tkmaxx for pet stuff, has some hidden gems. Although sometimes I can be really disappointed in the place and they have barely nothing...I go in never expecting anything though!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I don't need another home check (this is because I only had one form them 18 months ago), so I can pick him up when ever it's convenient for me.

OMG i'm so excited but so nervous at the same time.

Yep agreed re: TK Maxx...


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Yay! Andre is finding a perfect home and will join us here! So exciting!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Yay how exciting Lola will have a little brother.
As others have said she’s still young & he’s young enough to still remember his siblings, so everything crossed intros go smoothly 
Oh oh I’m all excited for you xx


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Good luck with your new addition

Nerves are normal for any new addition..so are the ones what have I done feelings if they arise!

You are cat savvy, and lovely supportive members here so it should all go well...with those famous last words eventually!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I don't need another home check (this is because I only had one form them 18 months ago), so I can pick him up when ever it's convenient for me.
> 
> OMG i'm so excited but so nervous at the same time.
> 
> Yep agreed re: TK Maxx...


Just get the safety necessary work done and worry about the more minor things once you've got him home! Don't forget a nice cardboard box turned on it's side for him to hide in when he feels he needs his own space. Plenty of scent swapping too! Getting excited for you now!  xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Yes, essentials:

Food (he's used to felix & whiskars - will start him on what he's used to, can swap later)
Bowl (although I'm sure I have an old plate he can use )
Litter tray (I have litter of course)
Scratching post would be good
Couple of toys of his own (that don't smell of Lola)

Also tidy up a little and have a good vacuum (he's scared of the vacuum, so if I give the house a good going through before he arrives I I can delay that stress for a few days)

The room has an armchair in it and I've plenty of boxes, blankets, vet bed, cushions etc...

Hannah


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Delighted for you, what a lucky little boy he will be.

I can’t wait to see hear how things go


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

SUNDAY


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Yay, just two more days!


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Nice to hear @Willow_Warren 

I love TK Maxx also, they usually have a great pet bed selection in their Home Good stores.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

EXCITED!!!!


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Yay!! I'm so made up for you Hannah  Andre is adorable and I'm sure you will have him settled in no time if he was happy to have chin tickles. Look forward to photos, congratulations  x


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Oh how lovely - look forward to meeting a new PF nephew!!


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

How exciting!! Not long to wait now, I hope the intros go well. He’s a gorgeous boy :Cat


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Great news, looking forward to more pics.


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## Gallifreyangirl (Feb 11, 2015)

Yay!!!!’


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So these aren't the pics you are looking for but I did say I'd post photos of the tidied room (should be before and after but I'm too ashamed of the original state).

(Had to angle the photos to avoid reflections).

Most of the contents of the grey box needs shredding (but I did find my birth certificate in there, which is annoying as I paid for s copy last year). Curtain still on the wardrobe as I couldn't face ikea last night but most of the clothes are moved. 









I do still need to move the airer, ladder and plant lights (the thing on top of the tumble drier). 








I've tried to secure the cord for the blind, but would it be saver to just remove it completely? It's came with the house so I'm not as all precious over it.

A basic scratching post should be arriving today.

The litter tray isn't arriving till Sunday now, wondered if this old one would do? (30cm ruler for scale). Vinegar soaked and washed it this morning. I'm sure it's a cat one but I used it for the bunnies, but wasn't really the right shape size for them so has been sat around unused.










Many thanks

Trying but to write too much, but also many thanks for everyone's advice and kind words.

Hannah


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

That's a super tidy room!. I wish I had your discipline to tidy my junk room as well as you've done yours!!!!


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

I think that litter tray would do until the new one arrives! 

And the room looks super organized. How long will that last once there is a kitten in it? :-D


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

SbanR said:


> That's a super tidy room!. I wish I had your discipline to tidy my junk room as well as you've done yours!!!!


Best no one opens the cupboard on the landing!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

The room looks great and that tray is perfect 

Like the look of your plant thingy, I could do with investing in one for myself!


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

What a great room, lots of room even a sofa, he will love that! What are you on about It’s a very tidy room.

Agreed I would definitely do something about the blind cord, a little too tempting.


Only one more sleep


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I agree with you @ewelsh, the blind cord would be best removed. Those things are very dangerous for kittens if they get tangled in them.

Curtains would be safer and if you want little one to sleep past dawn, make them curtains with blackout linings.


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

Re the blind cord, I tied up the blind cord in the kitten room, four* kittens stayed in there over the past 3 years and none of them even noticed it. We also had to safely loop up the blind cords in all the bedrooms for a few months, because obviously we weren't always in the same room as the kittens, that worked fine (except when a guest stayed, and couldn't work out how to make the blind work because I'd completely forgotten about it  )

*five. How could I forget one of them!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Looks perfect! Can’t wait for tomorrow now! 
xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I can’t wait either! 

Never thought of curtains! In my 5 years living here there have never been curtains on that window nor have I ever pulled the blind down. We’re in August now though, dawn is much later than it was!


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## white_shadow (Dec 3, 2008)

.
@Willow_Warren - Is there a *screen* on that open window......? There needs to be !
.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Took measurements this morning to order screen. Windows can be put on the latch for ventilation (It isn’t forecast to be too hot next week so should be ok). Opened window to shake feather duster! No risk of kitten escaping out of it at that time as it’s still with it’s fosterer. 

Hannah


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

I hope you get some sleep tonight Hannah 

What time are you going tomorrow?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Not sure what time today as the fosterer is busy for a couple of hours but will let me know as soon as she’s free! I’m busy getting all the housework & washing finished so the house will be quieter when he arrives. 

I’m really rather nervous. 

Quick intros? What’s the method? This is all new to me (I’ve bonded bunnies before but cats are different). I think I’d feel more comfortable using the safe room for a few days whilst he finds his feet in a new environment. 

Best get on!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Good luck!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

For quick intros I put them together and let them work it out themselves, separating at night. Playing together is always a great way to diffuse any tension, either a da bird or a laser pointer


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thank you!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Hoping everything goes smoothly when you pick up little Andre :Cat
Try not to stress over how you introduce him to Lola. I tend to do quick intros but always advise my kitten buyers to take it slowly with lots of scent swapping.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I told Lola about Andre this morning, I’d like to say she’s been on her best behaviour since.... but quite the opposite  
She’s been extremely hyper and also caught a blackbird


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

Good luck for today!


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> I told Lola about Andre this morning, I'd like to say she's been on her best behaviour since.... but quite the opposite
> She's been extremely hyper and also caught a blackbird


But that was kindly meant! She wanted to give a very special welcome present to her new little brother! What a lovely cat Lola is.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Yay today’s the day!!
Good luck xx


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Yay! Gotcha day!!!!! 
What time are you picking him up Hannah? ❤


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

He is here! Picked him up at 10am (it’s not far away). He’s wondering around investigating his safe room, he’s just ventured to the windowsill, he likes being high up! I was expecting him to hide in a corner but he’s not.

I’m trying to be quiet and still but I’ve got pins and needles in my foot! I’ll just suffer for a minute whilst he eats!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> He is here! Picked him up at 10am (it's not far away). He's wondering around investigating his safe room, he's just ventured to the windowsill, he likes being high up! I was expecting him to hide in a corner but he's not.


Oh wonderful!!!! He's not too shy then! Can't wait to see him!!❤


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Is Lola aware he’s there?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

She was on the stairs when I walked past with the carrier but she seemed not to notice, I have settled him into the spare bedroom.

Some early pics (not good quality)


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> He is here! Picked him up at 10am (it's not far away). He's wondering around investigating his safe room, he's just ventured to the windowsill, he likes being high up! I was expecting him to hide in a corner but he's not.
> 
> I'm trying to be quiet and still but I've got pins and needles in my foot! I'll just suffer for a minute whilst he eats!


That's great! Such an adventurous little boy. Hope Lola is doing fine with the smell of the intruder in her territory.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

ChaosCat said:


> That's great! Such an adventurous little boy. Hope Lola is doing fine with the smell of the intruder in her territory.


So do I!!!

Very poor quality photo, but we have a tabby and white loaf!


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> So do I!!!
> 
> Very poor quality photo, but we have a tabby and white loaf!
> 
> View attachment 412915


He looks really confident. :Cat


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Looks quite relaxed.. Hope he won't be too timid and intros go well


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Awww he's gorgeous! what a pretty boy! plenty of scent swapping Hun! XXX


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Oh!! he's adorable!! and does look very relaxed! Happy Gotcha day little Andre, hope all goes well x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

We are busy playing at the minute!



















The serious part of intros to follow! He's not keen on being stroked but I figure that playing is good for him too..


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Timid my foot! He's getting right in there! Glad he's settling in well, good luck with intros


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

He looks gorgeous, lovely markings.
Playing is just what an adventurous little boy needs most of all.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

He is gorgeous, I love his face! 

So excited for you all x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

If I approach him to stroke he runs away / avoids so I figure to just continue with the play! He seemed to be enjoying himself (once he got the idea he was bounding around all over the place). Don’t know how long Lola was outside the room for but she was there when I left, she gave me a bit of a sniff and I gave her neck tickles (she prefers that to stoking).


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Lola must be getting the whiff of it...

Little bun seems to be a confident fellow...
Fingers crossed!


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

He definitely looks very confident! 

Such a little sweetheart  gorgeous looking lad :Cat


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Yes I’m sure she’s got a whiff! She gave the carrier a good once over. 

Need to think of a new name for him... no one seems to like Andre! 

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Yes I'm sure she's got a whiff! She gave the carrier a good once over.
> 
> Need to think of a new name for him... no one seems to like Andre!
> 
> Hannah


I'm not mad keen on the name somehow it doesn't suit him! Thinking caps on! lol


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Charlie! 
I used to watch it with my kids.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

He's absolutely stunning!


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

He reminds me of a lovely cat I had once called Ollie so I'm hooked, he is gorgeous. Won't take him long to settle in.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Thinking of names, ummmmmmmm he could be a

Bertie
Dante
Louie
Elgar
Bear
Theo
Peanut
Sebastian 
Wotsit

And if you want my favourite cat boys name Norman


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

I like Max as a name - but I bet his name just suddenly gets figured out


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Sebastian = Bash for short.... Hum... Maybe...

We've had wee and poop in the litter tray... Such a clever boy!

Just a quick question about food. Now I know it's early days... He was on Whiskers / felix at the rescue, he does however seem to lick the jelly off and leave the meaty part although eventually eats it. Not sure if it was the right thing to do so soon but I put a teaspoon on Lola's food (feringa) on a separate plate and he seemed to eat this in preference. Now I don't want to upset his digestion by moving him too quickly onto different food and if course it wasn't kitten food.

One last pic for today, at the end of the evening play session.










Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Psygon said:


> I like Max as a name - but I bet his name just suddenly gets figured out


Max was one of the suggestions I made to my mum! Many years ago our neighbours had a cat called Max who sort of made friends with our cat Jake (both ginger boys) - this must be 20odd years ago if not more,

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Oh I love Sebastian! I vote SEB! ❤


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Sebastian = Bash for short.... Hum... Maybe...
> 
> We've had wee and poop in the litter tray... Such a clever boy!
> 
> ...


I would start adding the Feringa in with the cheap food slowly and see how it goes. ❤


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Soozi said:


> Oh I love Sebastian! I vote SEB! ❤


Yes, I really like Sebastian too - @Willow_Warren I love the nickname bash too. Though hopefully if he does go with that name it's not because he's bashing and bopping Lola on the nose :-D


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

I Love Sebastian, Seb, Bash 


But I must just warn you, my friends youngest is Sebastian and he is a holy terror, not in a bad naughty way but just plain wicked.... don’t say I didn’t warn you 

Hope you all sleep well x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Fictional character Sebastian/Bash from Tv series Reign (not a good tv show)









H x


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## Citruspips (Jul 6, 2011)

He’s beautiful, he sounded as if he was going to be really timid but he looks really happy and settled already. I’m another who goes for quick intros with lots of play so they can sort themselves out but separate if your out and at bed time while he is little. But whatever you decide I hope it goes really well


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Willow_Warren said:


> She was on the stairs when I walked past with the carrier but she seemed not to notice, I have settled him into the spare bedroom.
> 
> Some early pics (not good quality)
> View attachment 412913
> ...


Aww he's gorgeous, reminds me of my Alfie.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

What a handsome little guy 
Not too shy for his first day home


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

@Willow_Warren let us know how things are going when you can lovie? xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

He was grand this morning before heading off to work! We played for almost an hour. I have tried to start the scent swapping thing. He ate the spoon of feringa before I put his main food down (partly due to my disorganisation). Will be heading home at lunchtime to check on him...

I was thinking is starting intros Thursday... (I’ve asked for Thursday / Friday off work so will have 4 days straight off work). 

Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

All this sounds so good!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> He was grand this morning before heading off to work! We played for almost an hour. I have tried to start the scent swapping thing. He ate the spoon of feringa before I put his main food down (partly due to my disorganisation). Will be heading home at lunchtime to check on him...
> 
> I was thinking is starting intros Thursday... (I've asked for Thursday / Friday off work so will have 4 days straight off work).
> 
> Hannah


While you are out take a couple of bits from his room and put near to where Lola can get a whiff of his scent and vice versa.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I took his towel out this morning and put it by Lola’s bed. And I put one of the toys Lola has been playing with in his room (then I worried that I wasn’t supposed to be swapping toys as I’d only read bedding swaps). 

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I took his towel out this morning and put it by Lola's bed. And I put one of the toys Lola has been playing with in his room (then I worried that I wasn't supposed to be swapping toys as I'd only read bedding swaps).
> 
> Hannah


Don't worry hun it doesn't matter too much that you gave him a toy. xxx


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## Gallifreyangirl (Feb 11, 2015)

So pleased to see him settling in so well. I like the name Sebastian.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Willow_Warren said:


> Just a quick question about food. Now I know it's early days... He was on Whiskers / felix at the rescue, he does however seem to lick the jelly off and leave the meaty part although eventually eats it. Not sure if it was the right thing to do so soon but I put a teaspoon on Lola's food (feringa) on a separate plate and he seemed to eat this in preference. Now I don't want to upset his digestion by moving him too quickly onto different food and if course it wasn't kitten food.
> 
> One last pic for today, at the end of the evening play session.
> 
> ...


Oh, what a gorgeous little lad! 

Regarding food, Feringa is such a good quality food you don't need a 'kitten' version - the only reason the cheap, grain laden filler packed foods like Whiskas and Felix have it is because their main foods are too nutritionally deficient for growing kittens, they wouldn't be able to eat enough to satisfy the needs of their body. Good grain free foods are high enough quality without the need for a kitten line, although some do have them these days as people have come to expect a kitten range.

Also, to be honest I've never really worried too much about very slow introductions of new food with my two. I usually just try them with a meal of it and see how they go. Probably best to take a bit of a slower approach with a kitten, of course, but if his litter tray offerings are OK after his taster spoonfuls there's no reason to make the transition an overly long one


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I came by to see some more pics, hurry home Hannah and get snapping . Love Sebastian by the way


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Sorry trying to get some photos! His left eye does look a little red and sore, mild conjunctivitis is on his notes and he has some drops so just keeping an eye on it at the moment. Don't want to stress with an unnecessary vet visit but on the other hand Of course I don't want it to get worse...


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Here we go some more piccies.


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Those ears! :Kiss
He has a lot of growing to do to grow into them. He is such a cutie!

How is Lola doing?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

His ears are gorgeous ! Lola hasn’t met him yet! She’s given his towel a good sniff over... and gives me a courtesy sniff when I’ve been with him. Otherwise not really reacted... going to have to take the next step sometime though


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

What a sweetheart...he's gorgeous. Love his little stripey leg  (and little pink nose of course)


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

He's so beautiful. Completely chilled in that last photo


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Aww I’m so sorry I missed being able to welcome him yesterday!!

Hello young man!! 

Isn’t he doing well!

Having said all I’ve said about quick intros if he has got a dodgy eye I wouldn’t introduce him til it’s cleared up esp as conjunctivitis is so contagious. 

Could you ask for a phone consult with your vet and they may be able to prescribe drops or gel for him. 

He seems pretty confident so I would start to try to handle him as much as possible now even if he doesn’t like it as this is the age where he needs to learn. 

Pick him up and play with him with a feather or dangly toy while he is in your arms. Give him a treat or food holding him. Turn picking him up into play if you can. 

Another tip is to play and stroke him with a tooth brush - anything to start getting him used to being touched. It’s probably simply because he hasn’t been handled enough when younger but put the effort in now and I’m sure you can sort it. 

The key is to do it in very short bursts but lots of times - so just pick him up for a second then put him down - wait a few mins (play) and go it again - keep doing that and making it 5 seconds, 10 etc. Build it up til you can walk around holding him showing him stuff. 

Kittens are notoriously squirmy so you have to be Mum. Hopefully he’ll soon get used to you.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

He is very cute, and with those big ears and big paws I reckon he's going to grow into a big lad, bless him xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

His paws aren’t actually that big... but he’s got long legs... (we’ll have to see if he grows into them).


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Awwwww I love him, what a face! I wish I could kiss him


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

He is delicious and settling in really well, I adore tabby and white's.


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## Gallifreyangirl (Feb 11, 2015)

He is so cute.


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## Gernella (Dec 14, 2008)

I've loved reading all this today. I got my kitten three months ago. I was using my sewing room as the safe room so machines covered up etc and every else likely to hurt put back in a high chest of drawers. I already had an old scratcher with two small platforms and around 6 poles on (bought it years ago for around £15 and the best £15 I have ever spent). I added the Natural Paradise Tree, which turned out a lot wider than I thought, but then I had never measured the width just the height. Turned off electricity to everything apart from the modem. Three beds to choose from plus a radiator bed.

The breeder warned me he was a little monkey and she wasn't kidding. When the fright of leaving mum and sisters was over, he's turned into a little tornado. Anything that can be knocked over lands on the floor, blankets laid out in beds, take out and dragged round the floor. The Paradise tree was actually shifted enough to loosen the feed mad I'd tucked it under and it is heavy. The beds have been left (like every other cat I have had) and it's either a vet blanket on the floor, the floor or the ottoman. He eats like a horse and when he gets hungry he gets a bit wild. Jumping is his speciality, never seen a kitten jump so high and with no fear. The kitchen is under half his room and the banging and charging around makes us laugh.

When he was finally allowed to venture out, the window sill had to be cleared apart from thing that was a bit heavier, what was in his way got pushed out. The barrel we have downstairs can be scaled in seconds or a straight jump to the top. Cat toys that we have had years have been wrecked, particularly a spider which is now covered in horse bandage so the sharp bits aren't showing, two more spiders bought, not as good so no interest. The other cats are not interested as he chases them, although he has grown bigger I suspect a bit of interest.

He purrs all the time and loves a good cuddle. Best part of all this, I have lost half a stone in weight as it has got me off the computer. Right now he is laid in the sun at the front door with the first door open so he can see out of the glass double doors, very quiet and content. Worst part, every window he's been near wants cleaning.

This is the first kitten I've had where I have been able to be there most of the day, and I'm loving it.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Gernella said:


> I've loved reading all this today. I got my kitten three months ago. I was using my sewing room as the safe room so machines covered up etc and every else likely to hurt put back in a high chest of drawers. I already had an old scratcher with two small platforms and around 6 poles on (bought it years ago for around £15 and the best £15 I have ever spent). I added the Natural Paradise Tree, which turned out a lot wider than I thought, but then I had never measured the width just the height. Turned off electricity to everything apart from the modem. Three beds to choose from plus a radiator bed.
> 
> The breeder warned me he was a little monkey and she wasn't kidding. When the fright of leaving mum and sisters was over, he's turned into a little tornado. Anything that can be knocked over lands on the floor, blankets laid out in beds, take out and dragged round the floor. The Paradise tree was actually shifted enough to loosen the feed mad I'd tucked it under and it is heavy. The beds have been left (like every other cat I have had) and it's either a vet blanket on the floor, the floor or the ottoman. He eats like a horse and when he gets hungry he gets a bit wild. Jumping is his speciality, never seen a kitten jump so high and with no fear. The kitchen is under half his room and the banging and charging around makes us laugh.
> 
> ...


What a lovely story! And what a beautiful cat!!!!! ❤


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

@Gernella your kitten is gorgeous - and sounds like a right little monkey :-D


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@Gernella i don't know what you mean, he look like butter wouldn't melt!

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Feeling a little stressed today...

Work wasn’t great... I wrote why but decided to delete 

Lola’s only eaten about 85% oh her dinner so of course I think somethings up. 

Andre wasn’t as playful this evening so of course again I think somethings up!

Caspian was quiet at lunchtime so again I thought something was wrong. 

Chime is digging up the lawn and roped Caspian in to help her (he’s fine of course, he was just having a lunchtime snooze earlier )

The chickens are running a mock... 

The pasta sauce I bought for dinner really wasn’t very nice and I ate the last Haagen Dazs ice cream yesterday (shouldn’t complain had a magnum at work earlier). 

Hannah...


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Willow_Warren said:


> Feeling a little stressed today...
> 
> Work wasn't great... I wrote why but decided to delete
> 
> ...


Sounds like wine might not be enough and nice G&T is required... and chocolates.

And really soapy movie...

Hugs.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I think you get kitten wobbles a couple of days in - try not to worry!! 

You’ll be fine once you finish work and have some time to spend at home sorting them all out. 

As long as they are all eating and going to the loo ok!!! 

Did you get some drops for the little ones eye? How’s it looking?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

As you say I think it's just a wobbly day! As I was writing the above whilst eating my dinner I heard thundering paws! So came and joined him in a play session. I think he's a bit of a night owl! Anyhow must get on, litter trays to clean, everyone to put to bed for the night and Andre is looking for his supper....

He was at the vets last Thursday and has some eye drops, just seemed worse yesterday when I got home, but I may have been overreacting. Will see tomorrow, my vets are hard to get on the phone they always just want to make appointments.

I've been trying your suggestion of picking him up for short periods for him to get used to it... Onc picked up he is ok for a while, I have my arm around him but without restraining, stays for a little while... meant to add that he loves chicken...

Lola’s in for the night... all safe and sound...


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

It’s all sounding promising. 

Hope you feel a bit brighter tomorrow x


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

its Been a challenging time all round for you hun! Get to bed early! Tomorrow is another day! xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Here's a photo of me I stroking him, as you can see he's resistant.










I did take a video but just working out how to upload (well... I think I need to remember my utube password!).

And here's a photo of Lola so she doesn't feel left out...










Oh... and I think I might be keeping the name Andre... (I also checked out the vet on that he is named after on their website ...)

H


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## Gallifreyangirl (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks for the update Hannah.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Trying to get a telephone conversation with the vet was a hard as a thought it was going to be! So basically I ended up by making an appointment for tomorrow...

I'm not totally comfortable with his eyes and he seems to have got a bit of a runny nose and sneezing - not horrendously but a bit and although the last thing I want to do is stress the little mite out more than needs be I would rather be safe than sorry! It might mean I put back the intros with Lola...

How much are kittens supposed to eat??? He was on two sachets a day (felix/whiskers) but not completely finishing them. Each day I've had him he's eating a little bit more! He's had one and a half sachets already today + some chicken (he loves chicken) and i know he likes to eat at night so I'm sure I'll be opening sachet number 3 before bedtime...

He's so adorable...

Just realised that this was my 1000 message - if I'd have realised I'd have made it something more fun.. but not going back now!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Trying to get a telephone conversation with the vet was a hard as a thought it was going to be! So basically I ended up by making an appointment for tomorrow...
> 
> I'm not totally comfortable with his eyes and he seems to have got a bit of a runny nose and sneezing - not horrendously but a bit and although the last thing I want to do is stress the little mite out more than needs be I would rather be safe than sorry! It might mean I put back the intros with Lola...
> 
> ...


He sounds purrfect hun! I'm not sure about food only had adult cats.
I think taking him to the vet is best Lovie catch it quick if he has a bit of an infection. You don't want to introduce him to Lola until you get the all clear. Good luck for tomorrow! xxx


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Willow_Warren said:


> How much are kittens supposed to eat??? He was on two sachets a day (felix/whiskers) but not completely finishing them. Each day I've had him he's eating a little bit more! He's had one and a half sachets already today + some chicken (he loves chicken) and i know he likes to eat at night so I'm sure I'll be opening sachet number 3 before bedtime...


The basic rule with kittens is feed them as much as they will eat! Sometimes he will eat a lot more than others (usually due to growth spurts), but you can't overfeed a growing kitten


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Soozi said:


> He sounds purrfect hun! I'm not sure about food only had adult cats.
> I think taking him to the vet is best Lovie catch it quick if he has a bit of an infection. You don't want to introduce him to Lola until you get the all clear. Good luck for tomorrow! xxx


I've only had adult cats as well... and I've always had to restrict what they eat or they would be as fat as houses 

Booked Thurs/Fri off so I would have 4 days together to manage intros better/ more consistently over a few days... but this not as important as everyone's health! I will still be able to spend extra time with him socialising him and getting used to each other - even if I just sit in the room reading book (or watching telly!!).

Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

I don’t know what size your sachets are, but Annie and Bonny easily ate 400g per day each and of more satiating food than Felix or Whiskas. Kittens can put away a lot of food, they really have hollow legs.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

ChaosCat said:


> I don't know what size your sachets are, but Annie and Bonny easily ate 400g per day each and of more satiating food than Felix or Whiskas. Kittens can put away a lot of food, they really have hollow legs.


I swear Lori was like the TARDIS - bigger inside than out!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I've just placed another ZooPlus order... I do plan on transitioning him to better quality food than felix and whiskars! He's already been trying and liking Feringa adult...


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Oh my goodness... what a difference a few hours makes... and what _have_ I let myself in for!


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## Gernella (Dec 14, 2008)

When I first got the little tornado in May (I think, time has flown), he was being fed Tesco Tiger adult cat food, and at 3 months old he seemed very skinny and thin compared with other Siamese kittens I've had. I was feeding him four times a day and he was clearing a packet at at each feed time, he was hungry. Three days after I got him I took him to the vet to be chipped and I could see the change in his back bone already (2.2 kg). He ignored the Sanabelle kibble until I put Royal Canin Kitten down. I had some Royal Canin kitten wet food but it was usually left unless mixed in with something else. I don't use Tesco so I went onto Kitten Felix As Good As It Looks when that provided by the breeder ran out. With the RC kibble he's down to half a packet of wet food at each feed, sometimes more. He's being neutered next Tuesday at just six months old so I've bought the next version of kibble for neutered kittens. He is extremely fit and active, much more than I am and when he's ready for another meal he's a bit like a spoiled child, doing what he shouldn't (going for the birds or up a curtain). 

If your kitty likes the food you are giving him, why change it, especially if it is more expensive. We like to do the best by them but cost is also a factor sometimes. It sounds like he is thriving despite the runny nose problem.

Funny, cats always seem to prefer chicken to anything else


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well this mornings taste test confirms he prefers feringa to Felix agal (but will eat both ).

We have just got back from the vets, his eyes are a little red but his breathing and chest are ok. He seems to be sneezing less than yesterday morning / lunch, just the odd isolated one. She's prescribed some isathal eye drops (the ones he came with was optixcare which I think is just a lubricant) whilst this new one has some active ingredients for want of a better expression.

Andre was very active yesterday evening, literally bouncing off the walls at one point. We were playing with the wand toy for the best part of an hour and I could hear from downstairs that he was continuing to play whilst I was getting my dinner.

He's having a little rest now whilst he recovers from the trauma of the vets









(Photo isn't great as I'm taking into the light)

This one is a little better


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

He really doesn't sound as timid as they said at the rescue, albeit he doesn't want to be picked up. However he sounds such a happy playful kitten who is just blossoming...I hope I have got that right knowing very little about cats but it's been lovely reading here about him.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Yeah... I’m so much more relaxed now he’s really starting to play! We just need to work on breaking down that personal space barrier . He’ll happily be within 8 inches of my but no closer... small steps we’ll get there :Shamefullyembarrased


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

A handsome little guy. I agree with small bursts of contact to get him used to it. Maybe food or play after as a reward.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

He’s coming on nicely hun! Very pleased with his progress! He’s a very handsome boy! Love him. xxx❤


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

He is adorable, I wish you could video him for us! :Smuggrin


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Trying to post some videos of our stroking efforts yesterday (apologies for poor camera work), I've not managed to get any videos ok play...














Lola however is off her food , I don't know why... she's had a little bit. Rightly or wrongly I got one on her favourite wand toys out and she was running and even leaping about... so I'm trying not to worry too much...

Hannah


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Listen to that purr! 

She might just be off as she's clocked there's another smell and can't work out what it is or where it's coming from


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

What a little tractor you are Andre! I love your ickle nose! Great videos! 


Lola knows something is up! If she is playing then all is fine!

When will you let them meet? X


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Aw he is purring 
Love the comfy looking pillow.


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Lovely videos! They gave you the wrong kitten, no way is this the shy boy they told you about!

Hope Lola will soon accept this new strange smell and eat well again.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

I think you underestimate gorgeous Andre! He seems to love the strokes! Could hear his lovely purr! 
Lola is still not quite sure of the whiffs she getting. If you touched her bowl with Andres scent she might just find it strange. xxx


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Aww lovely videos, listen to his purr


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Fantastic purr!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I didn’t realise the purring came across on the video...

Relinquished and have Lola some applelaws tuna (there is no hope for me)....

And why does my phone like to change stroking to striking... they are two very different things, one of which is definitely not for cat handling...


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> I didn't realise the purring came across on the video...
> 
> Relinquished and have Lola some applelaws tuna (there is no hope for me)....
> 
> And why does my phone like to change stroking to striking... they are two very different things, one of which is definitely not for cat handling...


That's because your phone thinks it knows better than you!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well I think there's more improvement in his hand shyness today! Don't think I'd describe him as timid today! Sorry this video is a bit long and the blue bit in the right are my jeans.






Lola has gone out in the rain which is a little odd although I known she's found somewhere to shelter. She must know about Andre even if they haven't met. I was waiting till Andre's eyes were better and they do seem better today, than they were.

Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Hand shy? Who?

Lola certainly is not quite content. Hope the introduction goes well and doesn’t take too long.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

He’s loving it! Yay! I think he’s going to love belly rubs soon  well done love! 
Awww I hope Lola will be Ok when Andre is 100% xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Yes... I’m certainly starting to worry.... don’t know whether doing longer scent swapping is better or biting the bullet soon.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I think dragging it out will be more distressing for her when she's already a bit discombobulated


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

If Lola is currently outside, what do people thing about letting Andre have a quick run around outside the safe room (returrning before Lola comes in, of course). A sort of 'live action' scent swap so to speak?

With Lori and Charlie-girl I made a mesh door for my bedroom (the only 'safe space' I had available for Lori - my house is tiny!) - the velcro is stil opn the doorframe!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well ticked my trousers into my socks so they didn't get wet, out on a coat and went out to speak to Lola, so she trotted back in with me. She's had some food, we did a zoom groom session which always turns her into a purry monster and some play time. It does look from her fur that she's had a little bit of diarrhoea, which I hope is nothing serious but as the same time I hope not stress related.

I can only get photos of when she's rolling on the floor 















Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Hope the diarrhea was a one off!
She definitely needs extra attention just now to assure her she’s still the first cat.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I hope so too... that’s the problem with cats that go outside you can’t monitor them as you might otherwise. I might not have even noticed this if I’d have been at work!

Natures menu was good for her last time so we’ll go with that for a few days. 

Thank you all for listening to my ramblings

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I hope so too... that's the problem with cats that go outside you can't monitor them as you might otherwise. I might not have even noticed this if I'd have been at work!
> 
> Natures menu was good for her last time so we'll go with that for a few days.
> 
> ...


I would imagine it's a bit too wet to go and hunt the poo? Does she have favourite places that she likes to go?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

She does, but having cleared some of the veg patch she’s expanded out, she also digs for China so you really need to have witnessed the event to find it (been there done it before). 

It is raining rather more heavily now... where is summer


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

Look at what I’ve been missing! Omg, Hannah!! Andre is just scrumptious ❤ xx

Hope Lola’s tummy settles. Could be so many causes for it but it’s an awful worry introducing a new kitten. I remember feeling like I was being pulled in all directions (mentally) because you feel guilt for your resident cat that you may have upset the Apple cart sort of thing, then feel bad for the tiny new one you are now responsible for. Literally had so many thoughts zooming through my head, basically beating myself up from both sides. It’s a trying time but also worth it when the introductions are done ❤ Xx

Good luck love and congratulations xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@Clairabella thank you for your kind words... yep... bit of turmoils and guilt at the moment... my tummy's jumping up and down a bit...


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> @Clairabella thank you for your kind words... yep... bit of turmoils and guilt at the moment... my tummy's jumping up and down a bit...


It's natural love ❤ But I have every faith you'll all be fine xxxx


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

So glad things are going well. I knew Andre would start to come round. He will be looking at you as Mum so carry on being in charge and handling him frequently even if he’s squirmy. 

If you can try to tickle his feet and back legs - basically touch him all over so that he gets used to being touched in sensitive places. 

A bit of effort now is worth it long term. 

Hopefully you can start intros over the weekend if Andre has stopped sneezing and his eyes look better. 

I’d let Lola have whatever food/treats she wants for a while - she seems to be doing ok though. Have you got any calm diffusers around - you could put a spot on calm on her too and/or give her some zylkene for a week or two just while she gets used to the new addition.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

oh gosh, just listen to Andre purr! I can't believe he was a timid cat at all!

Agree with @huckybuck that maybe some calming things for Lola would be good while she gets used to Andre's arrival


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@huckybuck thanks so much for your advice, after always adopting older cats I almost forget that (although no certainties I'm sure) Andre is young enough to influence.

And just to quickly say that as far as Lola is concerned normal service has been resumed. I'm going to put yesterday down as a blip...

Now just seeing how best I can fit the mesh door


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

Glad Lola is ok and no more diarrhoea xxx keep it up beautiful girl ❤ Xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

We had first introductions through the screen (I’m using an aviary panel as i had one almost the right size). 

The screen was on Andres safe room door, I was on Lola’s side. Given the layout of the house I couldn’t see both of them all the time. 

Andre came up to the barrier first, as I couldn’t see Lola i thought she had gone back downstairs, but no she was observing from just round the corner. Once Andre went away from the barrier Lola approached and hissed and growled (not overly loud), lasted less than a minute.

They both them spent the next 45 minutes or so sitting 3-4 feet from each other, mostly in loaf pose, occasionally one ones side resting their heads. 

Lola decided she needed a wash, think Andre got a little bored and started playing with his tail a little. Wash and play time finished Andre got right up to the barrier again which initiated some low growling from Lola, although her posture was very relaxed, as she was basically laying with her head on one side. Didn’t want to end on a growling note so waited a bit longer for them to settle. 

It was then everyone’s dinner time which was given in their usual locations, was about an hour all in all. 

I shut the main door although I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to? Will repeat the process again today. 

Sorry realise this is a very long post for anyone to read through...

Hannah


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

I think that all sound very normal and positive. Lola staying to observe is very promising. Lola’s growls are her saying “ I’m the grown up, your just a little sprat so do as your told”

Loulou wouldn’t even stay in the same room as Libby!


Keep this up guys, excellent news.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Just had another similar session! Lola was on the landing so thought I’d take advantage (just wish she’d let me know that she had come in because it was raining). 

They observed each other, then Andre started playing, with Lola watching from a distance. Lola came downstairs with me as it really was raining hard and although I’ve abandoned the towels on the line I really needed to get the cushions on (which I’d initially forgotten about)

Lola’s now on my lap on the sofa... I can hear Andre thundering about still playing. 

Hannah 

P.s. I wish it would stop raining


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

That’s very good, you could play with Lola on the landing so Andre can see! Then play with Andre in his room so Lola can see!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I will have a go at that next time

I was going for numerous short sessions and ending on a good note. We just had 1-2 hisses and 2-3 growls this time round. 

Hannah


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

It's good that Lola is observing and not being too angsty with it. From experience it's when the resident cat ignores and hides that you seem to have more problems with introductions. So observing with a few growls and hisses seems good right now. 

I think playing just outside the room with Lola is a good idea too, and then playing with Andre. O e of the reasons our half height mesh screen worked so well was I could play with the resident tonks and then lean over with a wand toy and include the new tonk as well. Kept everyone playing without being nose to nose 

Play definitely seems to be a good intro method! 

Keep up the good work, am loving reading your updates


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Sounds pretty normal but I’m not experienced with kittens. Taking it slow with short exposure sessions to me sounds very sensible. xxx


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

I think your doing so well. 
Lola is obviously slightly interested, what she will think when Andre is loose I don’t don’t know 

All I know is my past experience. Loulou hated Libby, she wouldn’t go in the the same room as Libby, it was playing that broke the cycle. Loulou didn’t hurt Libby but she was terrified of her.

Now when we had Lottie, Libby was straight in, she wanted to sniff Lottie, play with her and watch her constantly, Loulou again was packing her suitcase 

They are all different


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Hissing and growling from the resident cat is perfectly normal for a little while. 

Lola is saying this is my territory and don’t come too close til I have sussed you out. 

The fact she is intrigued is good.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I was/am concerned that Lola isn’t interested enough (to be fair if I wasn’t concerned about that I’d be worried about something else) 

Couple of questions:

1: would it be an good idea to let Andre into the hall / landing area, which is an area Lola also has access to (but not at the same time of course), maybe whilst Lola is out and about 

2: whilst I’m home could I leave the door as the mesh door? Then Lola can go investigate when ever she wants. 

Or am I asking for trouble with either idea...

P.s. I picked up Andre yesterday and put him on my lap and after a little initial wiggle or two he settled down on my lap for a while episode of Star Wars (don’t judge my tv choices). He is very long when he stretched out :Kiss


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Yes definitely I’d let Andre out to explore, when the coast is clear, it’s scent swapping at its best. Andre will start to smell more like home, much quicker this way and Lola won’t be so alarmed by him.

It is little and often all day every day then one day, you’ll know when the time is right, just let them meet, but have your toys ready to play. The only time Andre should be in his room is when your not about.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well Lola does look a little grumpy this morning....









And Andre!








Of course this is just a snapshot in time...

They are generally keeping a good few feet apart, if Andre does get too close he gets a growl or a hiss... (But he backs off so this morning just 2 hisses and one growl)

There doesn't seem much interaction between them... Not sure how concerned I should be about this.

Yes... Got the toys out, thanks for the tip... When doing that I could see the advantages that a lower barrier would have, I guess I was worried that they would jump over.

Hannah


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> Well Lola does look a little grumpy this morning....
> 
> View attachment 413862
> 
> ...


Andre is so sweet. Looks very laidback too


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Well Lola does look a little grumpy this morning....
> 
> View attachment 413862
> 
> ...


It's weird... The adult tonks could easily leap over the barrier but it was only once they had increased in confidence that they tried. Even then they preferred me to open it for them to go in at eye level to meet the newcomer.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Morning!

I think this all still sounds positive! A few hisses is normal.

This is what I think will happen next.

So when they are in the same room, get a wand toy and play, I’ll put money on it that Andre will jump straight in and Lola will just watch, then she won’t be able to help herself and she will join in, ok she might bop Andre if he gets too close but it’s another step forward.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

I don’t know much about intros only what I read on here but I just want them
To be friends.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Any news? X


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I'd kind of consciously decided not to update every little step! But since you ask... ... I will do once my eyes are properly open...


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Here's some photos from this morning




























He was rather playful this morning, update on intros when I have a chance

Hannah


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Beautiful photos, especially the last one.. We'd like to follow every half inch of progress please!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So... Andre has come along in leaps an bounds - he still shy's away from my hand but less so & of course then often allows me to stroke rather than running away! He will come to me if I have food... and is a purr monster when he does get stroked (I hope he's purring because he likes it...)

Andre is allowed access to the hall/landing whilst Lola is otherwise occupied (the way the house is laid out Lola then has access to living room, kitchen/diner and outside), the mesh door is on Andre's safe room.

As far as Andre/Lola intros are going... I'm finding it hard to judge. Lola seems to becoming more inquisitive of Andre... given the opportunity she does pop upstairs to see him. When i was playing with Lola last night Andre defiantly wanted to come and join in. It seems to be easier now to distract Lola with toys. But if Andre comes too close (say closer than 2ft) he still gets a hiss & a growl - although I've noticed he's started to stand his ground a little! When they have gotten really close Andre has hissed back! He hissing/growling is about 10-15 seconds - that's all.

Intro sessions are quite short - 30-40 minutes or so... really is dependant on the cats... Lola has quickly learnt though that after into sessions she gets treats... she has eaten way too many treats in the last few days...

In herself Lola is fine and there's been no repeat of her being off her food like last Thurs (or was it Friday - the days are blurring into one... must be a sign of getting old)

At some point I'm going to have to brave it and take the barrier down!

H


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> So... Andre has come along in leaps an bounds - he still shy's away from my hand but less so & of course then often allows me to stroke rather than running away! He will come to me if I have food... and is a purr monster when he does get stroked (I hope he's purring because he likes it...)
> 
> Andre is allowed access to the hall/landing whilst Lola is otherwise occupied (the way the house is laid out Lola then has access to living room, kitchen/diner and outside), the mesh door is on Andre's safe room.
> 
> ...


Awww it must be a bit nerve racking! I wish I could advise but it's not something I know much about. 
Do you think Lola might take a swipe at Andre?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Soozi said:


> Awww it must be a bit nerve racking! I wish I could advise but it's not something I know much about.
> Do you think Lola might take a swipe at Andre?


I don't know... I'm sure someone more confident would be handling this better...


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I don't know... I'm sure someone more confident would be handling this better...


No you're doing fine taking it slow hun. But as you say at some point they have to meet without a barrier. The reaction from Lola really doesn't sound serious just a bit wary.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I'm hoping barrier down at the weekend plus I'll have more time on my hands...

in other news... two of my chickens are still broody (it's a trait of fluffy pekins) and bunny Chime has started digging _yet _another hole in the lawn...

_house work = overrated... (sshhh... don't tell my Mother...!!)_


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Lol don’t worry about housework the dust will be there long after you’ve gone!


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Soozi said:


> Lol don't worry about housework the dust will be there long after you've gone!


Besides dust that's settled is no health risk, it's the dust that's swirling in the air because someone thought to go at it that causes breathing problems


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I'm hoping barrier down at the weekend plus I'll have more time on my hands...
> 
> in other news... two of my chickens are still broody (it's a trait of fluffy pekins) and bunny Chime has started digging _yet _another hole in the lawn...
> 
> _house work = overrated... (sshhh... don't tell my Mother...!!)_


Can we have an update please?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well I've still not done any house work apart from putting the dishwasher on! All the animals are of course clean and tidy!

Did not allow Chime into the lawn run yesterday (confined to the patio) so she couldn't make her hold any bigger. Primrose and Camellia are still broody... (but I got an egg each from the other 4).

As for Lola and Andre... well their interest in each other is certainly increasing! They are now both frequently approaching the barrier... and on occasion toughing noses... Unfortunately this has lead to more hissing and growling from Lola... distracting with the wand toy works but only to a point and not totally... Lola is more likely to stay still but Andre will approach and leave. If he bounds up to the barrier paws do start waving on both side (he's not being nasty in bounding over just playful). If Andre gets within 2'6" of Lola (rather precise) he get a low growl and closer than 2' he gets a hiss... to which he tends to then lay down but not run away (not straight away anyhow).

My feeling in Andre wants to make friends but possibly in a rather hyperactive way... Lola I'm not so sure, she's certainly interested but for the right reasons??? 

Of course I'm doubting myself that's I've made the right decision... I got the advice that they might not get on, change my relationship with Lola and I chose to ignore (so please don't go I told you so, I'm doing that enough to myself...)

It's been less than a week though so I assume I just carry on with what I'm doing and keep my fingers cross for peace and harmony (well something close to that).

Andre was so hyper yesterday...

Hannah


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Don't doubt yourself Hannah, you're doing great.
As you say, it's only been less than a week


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

It’s very early days love! Don’t be disheartened that they are wary of each other it’s all strange to both of them. Carry on as you are! Baby steps! xxx


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

It took me ages with Loulou and Libby, Loulou just did not want to know or even breath the same air as Libby. Libby would follow Loulou like a lost lamb. Im sure Libby thought hissing was a sign of affection :Hilarious

You have all the time in the world for Lola and Andre to be friends.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks... I think I needed a little hand holding


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Thanks... I think I needed a little hand holding


A virtual hand hold from me hun! It will be fine.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

ewelsh said:


> It took me ages with Loulou and Libby, Loulou just did not want to know or even breath the same air as Libby. Libby would follow Loulou like a lost lamb. *Im sure Libby thought hissing was a sign of affection *:Hilarious
> 
> You have all the time in the world for Lola and Andre to be friends.


I'm pretty sure Lori still does - she's six now and every now and then she'll randomly give a full on snake-hiss in the middle of a snuggle session! 

Then again, I did misjudge things badly in getting Lori, I figured Charlie-girl might like company as she'd lived with another cat before, and Lori was supposed to be a well mannered quiet rescue kitten - not the whirlwind stripy nutter with no concept of boundaries or personal space she turned out to be! Lola is doing better tolerance wise after a few days that Charlie-girl was after a couple of years!  Although we are always making progress - I'm not sure why, but since all three of us stayed in the spare room of a friend for a few days earlier this year whilst my bathroom was being done, Charliie-girl has suddenly been a lot more tolerant of Lori, even in close proximity.  Well, most of the time anyway!


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Hi,
It sounds like Andre wants to play and Lola doesn't. 

Still as was said early days, and she may come round to wanting to play at times. I think you may need to be the main kitten toy yourself though. Not necessarily a bad thing.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Ok.. so this might be a weird question to ask..

So a couple of times this evening they have been within inches of each other at the barrier. They were bobbing their heads in sort of synchronised way... is this aggression? sizing each other up...? no hosting or growling at this point from either party... otherwise so far this evening they have kept each other in sight but at a respectable distance. 

Andre is less hyper this evening, still playful but not bouncing off the walls. 

Might be time for me to put some dinner in the oven, ate lunch at 11.30, coz I was hungry coz I missed breakfast!!

Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Can’t say about the head bobbing- but don’t forget to eat, please. You need your strength for all your furries!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Dinner is in the oven and it’s looking scrummy already! Get free sandwiches at work, and a pile of yummy stone baked ciabatta to bring home


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

All sounding promising. 

If they have been nose to nose but no hiss I don’t think there are going to be any fisty cuffs. 

When Lola hisses and Andre lies down he is being submissive to her which is what she wants.

I would let them interact now under supervision most of the time.

If you can feed in close proximity that would be even better. 

It’s week 1 of 3 before Lola will accept Andre as part of the household (smell wise) so you aren’t even halfway through yet. 

It’s all going fine xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@huckybuck thanks for your reply  I do feel a little better about it this morning...

Although somehow Andre got one of his toy balls into his litter tray .

Since I'm here there was still a bit of hissing this morning but Lola does seem to be accepting Andre in close proximity and generally they are spending more of their socialisation time closer together which i'm sure is a good sign.... will try the feeding thing (Lola does "inhale" her food... blink and it's gone!! :Hilarious, timing will be fundamental...)


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

I agree with HB feed them together each side of the mesh door.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Sorry to spam my own thread! But for the first time Andre came up to me (when I didn't have food, although he might have thought otherwise), and although he shy'd away from my hand a little bit he then head popped it... so sweet....


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Willow_Warren said:


> Sorry to spam my own thread! But for the first time Andre came up to me (when I didn't have food, although he might have thought otherwise), and although he shy'd away from my hand a little bit he then head popped it... so sweet....


Awww! 

And there's no such thing as too much Andre spam


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Sorry to spam my own thread! But for the first time Andre came up to me (when I didn't have food, although he might have thought otherwise), and although he shy'd away from my hand a little bit he then head popped it... so sweet....


Awww he wants to know you! you're gaining his trust hun! It's all progressing nicely. xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Excuse my screen as it's an old aviary panel, which is a little warped hence the magazine holder at the back at the bottom just making sure it's flush!

Thought it was nice Lola seemed relaxed rolling about showing her tummy... then she let out a hiss...










Again this is just snapshot in time... (really need to be quicker with the camera / video).

Hannah

P.s. I promise I'll vacuum later _today_


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

This does look and sound absolutely promising!


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Yay, I think Lola is holding out the hand of friendship


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I think we are very much approaching the time for the barrier to come down!

Maybe the warmer weather will make they more lethargic? Lol...


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Maybe a frozen yoghurt for all three of you to share?


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Excuse my screen as it's an old aviary panel, which is a little warped hence the magazine holder at the back at the bottom just making sure it's flush!
> 
> Thought it was nice Lola seemed relaxed rolling about showing her tummy... then she let out a hiss...
> 
> ...


There doesn't look to be any real tension in their body language! I'd try letting Andre out just for a few minutes then increasing the time and see how it goes.
XXX


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

MMMmmmmm frozen yogurt!

We having another session now, still with the barrier. Andre is very playful but I think we've progressing since Wednesday/ Thursday. There's been one passing hiss from Lola, and I've got to be honest it was a half a**** effort at a hiss.

This is them right now! 


















Poor quality due to ipad


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Wow! Rapid progress for sure!


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Aww well that first pic you showed Lola was showing she wasn’t a threat - lying down and almost showing her tummy. Then vice versa with Andre. I think she is inquisitive but probably still confused as to why he smells funny (another week to go I reckon) but I really don’t think there is anything to worry about in terms of fights etc. You are going to get more hisses when Lola tells Andre to keep his distance and if they do end up fighting (play) I imagine he will squeal as kittens do so be prepared. But they definitely seem to have accepted each other. Eating together is a great way of sharing space and letting each other know they are part of the family.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

We all know how precious food is to our cats so feeding side by side will create trust between them I would hope.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Yes... yesterday they had their lunchtime snacks together! Andre had chicken Lola applelaws... I wasn’t sure how close their bowls should be... I put then a foot apart. 

Will do the same again this lunchtime, can feed them their evening meal together as well...

Whilst Lola was outside yesterday I allow Andre access to the living room... so he had great fun exploring that  (given the weather Lola is spending a lot of time outside)

Hannah


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## Clare4 (Aug 24, 2019)

Willow_Warren said:


> Yes... yesterday they had their lunchtime snacks together! Andre had chicken Lola applelaws... I wasn't sure how close their bowls should be... I put then a foot apart.
> 
> Will do the same again this lunchtime, can feed them their evening meal together as well...
> 
> ...


I've just ready through this whole post which is veeery interesting to me right now

Stressful business introducing a new cat isn't it?! I'm having a wobble of have I done the right thing but am still a long way behind you so aware it will take time. Lovely to read your 2 are making progress though


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@ChaosCat Andre loves the bouncing stars , going crazy for them today!

(They were a total flop with Lola, she wouldn't even give them a go, left me playing on my own... lol...)


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> @ChaosCat Andre loves the bouncing stars , going crazy for them today!
> 
> (They were a total flop with Lola, she wouldn't even give them a go, left me playing on my own... lol...)


See- it was meant from the start that you adopt Andre so that you didn't spend the money in vain!
Glad he enjoys them. Annie goes nuts with them, too.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So we have another Andre first... I'm sure for most people with kitten ownership this is all very normal...

So... I'm sat cross legged on the floor as I have a little tabby and white kitten fussing about me, walking over me, rubbing against me and purring like a traction engine, for like 30 minutes... he actually settled into my legs (no photo I'm in my dressing gown it wouldn't be decent). I'm enjoying the moment coz I think it's going to decent into play and chaos any minute now.

He's the cute fella!



















Ok... he's a picture










I traumatised him yesterday with the vacuum cleaner and flea treatment.. but I think he's forgiven me...

Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> So we have another Andre first... I'm sure for most people with kitten ownership this is all very normal...
> 
> So... I'm sat cross legged on the floor as I have a little tabby and white kitten fussing about me, walking over me, rubbing against me and purring like a traction engine, for like 30 minutes... he actually settled into my legs (no photo I'm in my dressing gown it wouldn't be decent). I'm enjoying the moment coz I think it's going to decent into play and chaos any minute now.
> 
> ...


He obviously weighed the trauma against having a lovely home and a lovely slave and decided that a little trauma now and then is well worth it!


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Such a cutie


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So... yesterday afternoon/early evening I decided to remove the barrier!

Andre was the first to make a move and come over to Lola... it was too much... too soon... too quickly... it did result in fisticuffs! I'm sure it's normal but of course I panicked! They were intently staring at each other, it got to the point where Lola was on the top stair and Andre was on the one below and I'm not sure he knew how to get back up! I was frantically trying to distract with the want toy but they weren't "that" interested... strangely Lola paid more of an interest in the toy that Andre (think he was a little scared/apprehensive). Anyhow... he did get up from the stairs and Lola decided she'd had enough and went downstairs and was out for the rest of the evening (see photos of here in other threads lounging on the sofa), they only met for 5-10 minutes.

Again this morning I removed the barrier... again there was quite a bit of paws flying... I does worry me that they will hurt themselves when they fly paws at each other... I expected hissing but there wasn't any! I think part of the problem is that Andre does everything at 100mph! They chased a bit... not too much of a worry apart form one time where Andre ended up on his side and Lola lording it over him... but it was only for a split second as by the time I thought "I'll move to intervene" Andre was back up and in his room... (Lola didn't follow). Again I had a wand toy with had a bit of interest from both of them but mainly there were more interested in each other... anyhow this was about 30 minutes and Lola toddled off downstairs!

Lola then went outside and caught a mouse... :Angelic

I've separated them whilst I'm at work...

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

I would expect paw swiping tbh hun! And chasing! Just a little exposure to each other each day is fine! You are doing great. From what you say it doesn’t sound like full on aggression. Are you still feeding them together? xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Yes they are now having all their main meals together, so far with the barrier in place. Lola seems more cautious of this than Andre but is ok 

She really is a good girl... Andre is adorable but needs to learn a little respect


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Yes they are now having all their main meals together, so far with the barrier in place. Lola seems more cautious of this than Andre but is ok
> 
> She really is a good girl... Andre is adorable but needs to learn a little respect


Lola will soon put him in his place! lol!


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Annie and Bonny had sisterly fights that really looked vicious but weren’t. They knew exactly how far they could go without hurting each other. Don’t worry too much or they will sense your tension and react tense, too.

It really doesn’t sound bad the way it goes- but that’s admittedly easier for an outsider to say so than for the person involved


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Willow_Warren said:


> I think part of the problem is that Andre does everything at 100mph! They chased a bit... not too much of a worry apart form one time where Andre ended up on his side and Lola lording it over him...


Hah, you could be describing Lorelei! No respect, no sense of boundaries or personal space, even though she's six now 

Even though Charlie-girl's relationship with her has vastly improved over six years, we'll still have occasions where Lori _really_ pushes the limit, and we end up with a chase (usually up the stairs) that terminates with a strangled bellyup yowl from Lori as Charlie underlines the point that SHE is still matriarch of Magnificat Manor, thank you very much...

Charlie-girl then trots downstairs in a regal manner befitting her position as Queen of all she surveys. Lori usually slinks down a while later, like a princess caught red-handed trying on the crown jewels for size...


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

ChaosCat said:


> Don't worry too much or they will sense your tension and react tense, too.


Yes I'm a strong believer that animals especially sense tension and nervousness (horses certainly do lol). This very thing was on my mind yesterday, tried to relax but easier said than done 

Also it's determining what is play, testing boundaries and actual fighting...

No one ever said it was going to be easy


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Are you going to be brave and just let them get on with it tonight? 

I would remove the barrier put them in the same room as you and just watch TV or something. Try to act as if everything is completely normal. I think they might need to be in each others proximity for a whole evening (few hours if possible) so they have a chance to calm down in each other's presence..eat etc etc once they have had a chance to establish the hierarchy etc (fisty cuffs!!)

With you acting as referee they will be feeling tension - and you want them to feel relaxed and normal if possible - so you will need to give that impression to them (ignore them) and not interfere unless absolutely necessary.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks I may do that tomorrow as I'm "working from home"! My main concern is that Lola likes to go out in this weather and she may get frustrated if the door is shut (well if course I'm going to find something to worry about!)


Ok... Rephrasing... I WILL do that tomorrow!


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Working from home, I hope means we get photos on your coffee break


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So I'm sat on the sofa with my laptop read to work, with both of the cats about! There is a fair bit of chasing and paw swiping... with a bit of hissing and the odd growl.. (I have noticed that Andre has a little scratch on his nose) I'm trying to keep calm, although I'm really not sure it's going well...

quick photo of a moment of vague calm (I really need to vacuum, I don't know how it gets so dirty so quickly...)


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Andre is not allowed on the top of the scratching post, but he's still trying his luck!








He got a definite paw swipe, not that he seems to care!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I’m not sure what’s going on at the moment. Presently the cats have access to the living room, hall, stairs, landing, Andes safe room and the bathroom. Lola has just come in from a spell outside and gone upstairs (which means I can’t see either of them...). It’s all very quiet... (which I guess means they can’t be ripping each other’s throats out). Seriously though any thundering paws I can hear from downstairs (little house).

edit: Ok so the doorbell went so I got up! Lola is sat at the top of the stairs and Andre on the box in his room, they are in sight of each other about 6ft apart!

Edit 2: sorry for the hour by hour updates


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> I'm not sure what's going on at the moment. Presently the cats have access to the living room, hall, stairs, landing, Andes safe room and the bathroom. Lola has just come in from a spell outside and gone upstairs (which means I can't see either of them...). It's all very quiet... (which I guess means they can't be ripping each other's throats out). Seriously though any thundering paws I can hear from downstairs (little house).
> 
> edit: Ok so the doorbell went so I got up! Lola is sat at the top of the stairs and Andre on the box in his room, they are in sight of each other about 6ft apart!
> 
> Edit 2: sorry for the hour by hour updates


Don't say you're sorry- that's exactly what we want. It really doesn't sound bad. Lola has to show she is the resident boss cat and if Andre is not too bothered he is fine with it.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I'm not sure what's going on at the moment. Presently the cats have access to the living room, hall, stairs, landing, Andes safe room and the bathroom. Lola has just come in from a spell outside and gone upstairs (which means I can't see either of them...). It's all very quiet... (which I guess means they can't be ripping each other's throats out). Seriously though any thundering paws I can hear from downstairs (little house).
> 
> edit: Ok so the doorbell went so I got up! Lola is sat at the top of the stairs and Andre on the box in his room, they are in sight of each other about 6ft apart!
> 
> Edit 2: sorry for the hour by hour updates


I agree we NEED the updates hun keep em coming!! xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Me and Andre are having some cuddle time whilst Lola is outside chillin'

You can see the two little scratches on his nose  (really struggling to get an up close photo of him, he loves shiny objects including my phone)










Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

That photo is unbearably cute!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So Lola and Andre have been meeting when ever I'm home... it hasn't been for as long as I like, but Lola has wanted to go outside so I haven't forced the issue longer than Lola wanted to!

She is still swiping her paw at him a quite a bit, esp when they get close! They chase but that doesn't worry/both me so much, neither does the odd hiss! I'm not sure if Lola is being aggressive in the paw swiping or just doesn't understand how to play politely... Othertimes she will just sit quietly and watch him...

If I wasn't worried about them being aggressive this morning it would have been quite funny! Lola chased Andre (only a couple of strides..), he ran into the little tunnel and Lola jumped over the tunnel and stopped a couple of strides away from the tunnel...

In other news - Andre was so hyper yesterday evening, he spent form 6pm to 9pm running about up and down the stairs! I was just exhausted watching him... (he seems to have gotten into more of a habbit of being active during the day and sleeping at night - he was the opposite when I got him). Also his bouncing star ended up in his water bowl, so it's having to dry out!

Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> So Lola and Andre have been meeting when ever I'm home... it hasn't been for as long as I like, but Lola has wanted to go outside so I haven't forced the issue longer than Lola wanted to!
> 
> She is still swiping her paw at him a quite a bit, esp when they get close! They chase but that doesn't worry/both me so much, neither does the odd hiss! I'm not sure if Lola is being aggressive in the paw swiping or just doesn't understand how to play politely... Othertimes she will just sit quietly and watch him...
> 
> ...


It must be a starfish- Annie's has a tendency to jump into the water bowl, too.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

This is about as close to harmony as we get! Andre was on the footstool, but when I moved a couple so things from the table to take the photo he moved over! The harmony didn't last long... he got a little too close, and got a paw swipe warning (he is in hyper mode).


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

A paw swipe is a warning that he apparently understands. So far so good, I‘d say.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I do hope so! 

Also he’s confidence is increasing every day! He really isn’t the shy boy the advertised, he settled (well for a while) on my lap on the sofa yesterday. Think he’s going to be a little cheeky monkey handful and keep me on my toes!

Trying to get a photo, but he won’t stay till enough they either end up blurry or I chop part of him off!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I was just thinking an hour or so ago that Andre was a little quiet this evening... I thought too soon... he has literally been bouncing off the walls and other surfaces for half an hour and is now bombing around with his star toy he went upstairs to fetch. 

Lola is in and there has been some not so friendly looking encounters, but she’s currently sat under the chair looking rather bewildered, I’m sat on the sofa thinking much the same... so much energy!


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I think it's all going ok by the sound of it. 

Looking at the pic Lola isn't aggressive or frightened - her ears are facing forward and she's lying down on her side - all good signs. 

I think there will be chasing and swiping and hopefully it may eventually turn into play chasing etc. It may not but I don't think Andre will be too bothered if he hasn't got a play partner - sounds like he is ver good at amusing himself lol!!

I wouldn't worry about the little scratches - I seem to remember all of my lot having them at some point - he could even have done it himself lol - their kitten claws are like pins!!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So... Andre went to the vets yesterday for a little check up and weigh (he has gone up form 1.75kg to 2.15kg in about 3 weeks) so I could book him in for his neuter/castration! He was very good at the vets, but we left at an unfortunate time when a very loud barking (but small) dog came in... he got scared an hid under his blanket in the carrier... seemed to bounce back quickly when he was home though. He is booked in for next Tuesday during a "cat only" clinic at a different branch of the same vets. I didn't check which vet it would be doing the procedure - but part of me find it amusing if it is vet Andre is 

Andre and Lola continue to spend time together when I'm home whilst still making some time for some one on one with Lola (generally last thing in the evening) and she comes for lap cuddle...

Andre is more comfortable playing "around" Lola now but will get still get paw swipes/chase if he gets too close... but it_ tentatively_ say that these are less in number and less in ferocity. I'm hoping to make more progress next week as I have the week off work.

Andre's energy levels are insane and he's turning into a right little monkey... it's hard to think he as the shy boy you could hardly touch! I don't know how he cam to be admitted to the rescue but I think it's fortunate he did so when he was young enough for it to make a difference...

Hannah


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Been loving all these updates on Andre, absolutely lovely thread. 

Nice how Lola is coping too. 

Very lucky to have 2 gorgeous cats!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

It has been 3 days since my last confession...

Ok... so Lola and Andre continue to meet! They’ve only been meeting when I’m home to keep an eye on them still. Yesterday evening and this morning I was quite worried as their interaction seemed more intense. They were chasing, Andre was a bit cornered and on his side and they seemed a bit mouthy with each other! I can confirm however there was no hissing, growling and no screaming of any kind. 

I decided to find one of Andre’s toys out (it has found its way under the sofa) and Lola’s wand toy which did calm the situation down between them. I’ve not known Lola to play for so long is ages... is it due to Andre or the change on weather...

I worry about Andre as he’s usually the one being chased, but he just bounces back and asks for more!

They are much the same this morning. I don’t know if they just need to calm down a little! I certainly do... my stomach is somewhere in my chest and my heart going at 10 times to he dozen. 

There are times when you’d think they’d fight if they were going to but don’t (e.g. fed them this morning, there is some distance between the bowls, but 3 times Andre went to eat out of Lola’s bowl and 3 times I had to pick him up and out him back by his bowl. Lola’s food must have smelt better). 

Anyhow I’ve probably written enough... 

I’ve got a whole week off now so they will be spending more time together. 

Hannah


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

They're doing fine, and so are you. Just continue to protect Lola's food from Andre


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Sounds all good to me! You’re all doing great hun! xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Keeping an eye on each other... well... sort of!









Lola won't go anywhere for the next hour as she's waiting for her dinner!

Hannah


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

It all sounds perfectly normal behaviour - and it's good to hear they are having a rough and tumble together without any issues. 

Normally one will squeal when they have had enough. It's good learning behaviour for Andre who I think is big enough to handle himself now lol!!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Any ideas how I keep Andre calm after neutering? I tried to put him back in his safe room but he ran out between my legs! Andre has not read the vet’s instructions! 

He didn’t eat at the vets but did as soon as he got home (he literally couldn’t get his head in his bowl quick enough) They said he was very timid at the vets (he’s a different kitten at home though). 

He’s trying to lick the wound which is only natural and I’m keeping a beady eye on him and stopping him... I hope him wanting to lick wears off and soon...

First cat in 30 years I’ve has neutered!

Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> Any ideas how I keep Andre calm after neutering? I tried to put him back in his safe room but he ran out between my legs! Andre has not read the vet's instructions!
> 
> He didn't eat at the vets but did as soon as he got home (he literally couldn't get his head in his bowl quick enough) They said he was very timid at the vets (he's a different kitten at home though).
> 
> ...


Well, Annie didn't go by the instructions, either and girl neutering leaves bigger wounds. It was impossible to keep her from jumping and climbing, it only stressed her so I let her do as she liked. It was no problem at all.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

The toys that Andre plays with more energetically I have put away... so he’s chasing his tail... 

I think I’m going to try and relax and to a point leave him to it!

Hannah


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

ChaosCat said:


> Well, Annie didn't go by the instructions, either and girl neutering leaves bigger wounds. It was impossible to keep her from jumping and climbing, it only stressed her so I let her do as she liked. It was no problem at all.


Nor did Lorelei! Slept it all off at the vets and in the carrier, and emerged ready to zoom...


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

How did I miss the important event!!

So glad all went well and he sounds none the worse for losing his pom poms. 

I’ve always found them ravenous and lovely the first day after neutering - can never stop them jumping up on the work surfaces either!! The second day a little more subdued perhaps but by the third 100% back to normal.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Yes, they can bounce back very quickly... 
glad all went well.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Great news for Andre! How are they both doing? ❤xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Soozi said:


> Great news for Andre! How are they both doing? ❤xxx


Lola's spent a lot of time outside , I do think in part it's to escape from Andre. They do seem mostly ok when they are both together though, but I don't think it's love. I was hoping the colder weather would bring Lola in but of course it's been quite nice.

We've had some funny incidents. I have a large footstool in my living room. Playing with the wand toy, one goes one way around the stool and the other the other way around... and then they crash, I could see it was going to happen but couldn't do anything to stop!

Feed times are also tricky, they are fine with each other but both are trying to trip me up!

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So as you will have read I'd been concerned that Lola and Andre's relationship isn't developing quite as I would like!

This morning didn't start off any different. They were happy enough waiting for breakfast to be dished out. Andre gulped his down so I had to shut him out of the kitchen whilst Lola finished hers. Lola didn't quite finish hers before going outside, she came back in and I was trying to separate Andre out of the kitchen so Lola could finish her breakfast without him trying to eat it! There was a bit of chasing each other around ending in an ears back standoff (this did worry me). Anyhow got Lola into the kitchen to finish her breakfast whilst Andre whinged at the door.

Decided to have some playtime. The wand toy broke so had to get the new one out. Lola was so excited with the new toy... (poor quality photos but I hope you get the idea). It was nice to see her a happy! Andre did get a look in when Lola was taking a break!

































(Can't get action shots)

Anyhow we played (mostly politely) for about an hour. But when either one of them leaves the room the other has to follow even if they seem settled.

Well Lola has now gone outside but has settled on the windowsill looking in (she knows how to get in if she wants to) Andre is still playful and is mixing up playing with his bouncing star and Lola's knitted kicker!









I've been worried that Lola's a bit bitey with her "play", I'm not sure it's always kind, I think it's a "don't disturb me" warning that Andre isn't understanding. Although I assume if it hurt Andre he'd let out a yelp... other times Andre needs to learn some manners. Playfully jumping on Lola isn't really going to help when she's trying to settle. There was a little hiss/growl the other evening but mostly none of this, but they aren't spending a huge amount of time together.

Sorry post was never meant to be this long... it's breakfast time.

Hannah


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Lola being older is acting like Mum or older sister - so she will be teaching Andre boundaries etc. I really think it sounds completely normal. I doubt they will ever be best friends but milling along together and playing occasionally is a pretty good state of affairs. Cats are naturally solitary. Try not to worry - they really sound fine.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks, we all had lovely long play session (Lola came back in for a while), so I do feel better about it.

Andre is so wonderful... he's come so far from the kitten you could hardly touch, you can pick him up and do almost anything with him now!

I must find a new home for the wadding o bought (rather then over the back of the chair)...



















His toy ended up in the water again!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

I agree with Huckbuck! It all sounds pretty normal but Lola being the older is just letting Andre know when she doesn’t want to be messed with! Lol! Love the pics! xxx


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

@Willow_Warren waiting for a photo of Andre hanging from your curtain


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@SbanR please don't encourage him... I really don't think he needs encouraging! He has just walked in with the filter from the litter tray


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> @SbanR please don't encourage him... I really don't think he needs encouraging! He has just walked in with the filter from the litter tray


But one of the initiation rites for kittens is hanging from the curtains! ALL kittens know this; its hardwired into their DNA!


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

We have long curtains but my two have never tried climbing them, thankfully


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I've been worried that Lola's a bit bitey with her "play", I'm not sure it's always kind, I think it's a "don't disturb me" warning that Andre isn't understanding. Although I assume if it hurt Andre he'd let out a yelp... other times Andre needs to learn some manners. Playfully jumping on Lola isn't really going to help when she's trying to settle. There was a little hiss/growl the other evening but mostly none of this, but they aren't spending a huge amount of time together.
> 
> Sorry post was never meant to be this long... it's breakfast time.
> 
> Hannah


Just thought I'd reply on the bite-y part.

Jammy and Waffles definitely encourage each other into crazy mad dashing about and leaping out at each other - full on bum wiggles and stalking around furniture etc. It always seems well mannered. And they will curl up together afterwards.

As Waffles has been getting bigger though, she's been testing Jammy, which I believe is her attempt to find her place in the pecking order. She is just that little more boisterous and she doesn't respond to Jammy's put-downs as well. This, in turn, makes Jammy a bit nippy and bite-y as she warns Waffles to back off. Which normally Waffles does.

It settles back down though, and I'm not concerned… Waffles does need to understand who is top cat (it's not Jammy btw) and she has to push the other tonks a bit to understand that. So far she doesn't try the same with the real top cat - and I'm not sure Darcy would appreciate being challenged by a young upstart. I think Waffles understand this as normally if Jammy has been a bit bitey to her then Waffles goes and seeks 'protection' with Darcy!

So basically… don't worry too much if they are a bit bite-y. Andre needs to learn that Lola is the top cat, it just may take a little while for that to fully shake out.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Summercat said:


> We have long curtains but my two have never tried climbing them, thankfully


! I think Ollie and @BarneyBobCat 's Barney need to send messages to your two!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

SbanR said:


> ! I think Ollie and @BarneyBobCat 's Barney need to send messages to your two!


I'm not hitting "like" to this message on purpose


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Psygon said:


> Just thought I'd reply on the bite-y part.
> 
> Jammy and Waffles definitely encourage each other into crazy mad dashing about and leaping out at each other - full on bum wiggles and stalking around furniture etc. It always seems well mannered. And they will curl up together afterwards.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your experience, it's reassuring... Oh yes the bum wiggles! Lola does that to Andre (and me for that matter when she chasing me around the garden), not sure Andre has mastered bum wiggles yet, he seems to go for more ramdom leap!

Andre doesn't seem to have a huge amount of common sense yet and he certainly hasn't learnt to read Lola's "do not disturb" sign... He just can't help himself! He acts before he thinks  (he's young)

We haven't reached settling down together yet (I don't expect tonk levels of cuddling up) , but sometimes they just have too much energy and Lola's been enjoying snoozing in the sunshine.

There are positives, they happily play together when I have the wand toy out, and they are OK eating together (just have to keep Andre out of Lola's bowl, she doesn't tell him off just looks a bit bemused).

Oh gosh... Andre's just started mad half hour (or mad 3 hours.... It's been brewing for the last hour, but now In full flow).

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Just a little bit of an update...

Well I've been back at work this week... boo... hoo...

But it does seem that Lola is spending a little bit more time inside this week than she was last week - which is pleasing me...

We have polite play times... we do still have some snappy/bitey "play" times - I presume if Lola was going to hurt Andre (or vise versa) it would have happened by now... (I try not to interfere; the most I might do is a stern *lola*... ... or distract with a toy) and we have race around the house at 100mph play times! The other day Lola decided Andre's bottom needed a clean (is this weird...??) wasn't for long and yesterday his ears needed a quick lick... The other morning Andre decided that Lola's fluffy neck was good for snuggling his nose into... she put up with it for a short while... erm... before telling him "no"...

We have also had short times when they've both relaxed... not together but in the same room... Lola in her bed and Andre on my lap. Most of the time when I'm home Andre is wide awake and playing or wondering about the house investigating/getting into trouble... or I'm asleep (I really do see that kittens and full time working aren't the best combination... but I ignored advise... and we are where we are and making the best of it...)

I wish I had a camera this morning as they were both laying on he floor on their sides/back waving paws at each other... maybe slightly weird but cute...

Sometimes Lola has that look on her face as if to say "what _is_ he doing now..."

As for curtain climbing you nearly got your way... Lola was on the windowsill... the curtains were closed... she was very slightly moving her tail... this was _way _too tempting for Andre to ignore... bounce up the curtains...

Hannah


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Willow_Warren said:


> We have polite play times... we do still have some snappy/bitey "play" times - I presume if Lola was going to hurt Andre (or vise versa) it would have happened by now... (I try not to interfere; the most I might do is a stern *lola*... ... or distract with a toy) and we have race around the house at 100mph play times! The other day Lola decided Andre's bottom needed a clean (is this weird...??) wasn't for long and yesterday his ears needed a quick lick... The other morning Andre decided that Lola's fluffy neck was good for snuggling his nose into... she put up with it for a short while... erm... before telling him "no"...


If there's grooming and snuggling, you're not only doing well, you've come further in a few weeks that Charlie-girl and Lorelei have in six YEARS!


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

That’s altogether very good!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I'm looking for a bit of advice please. 

Since I got Andre he has always been very good with his litter tray! But from Sunday he's started to use the hallway, literally 1-2 foot from his litter tray. He's not missing the litter tray he's choosing not to go in it. My hallway is only 4ft square ish and for a carpet has doormat style material.

This morning I put my picnic rug down in the hallway, hoping that the change in surface would change his mind and also it has a waterproof backing and is easily washable. But when I got home he's done one... Maybe 2 wees on it. He'd also done a poop on the tray next to it and a wee in the litter tray upstairs. 

I himself he's been fine and I can't think of any other changes, I'm rather paranoid everytime he sits down now and I'm paranoid he's going to wee elsewhere (I've checked and can't see that he has)

P.s. I have a cold and can't smell a lot!

Not sure what to do, or more importantly what could be wrong / have changed for this change in behaviour. 

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I'm looking for a bit of advice please.
> 
> Since I got Andre he has always been very good with his litter tray! But from Sunday he's started to use the hallway, literally 1-2 foot from his litter tray. He's not missing the litter tray he's choosing not to go in it. My hallway is only 4ft square ish and for a carpet has doormat style material.
> 
> ...


Oh that is a surprise! Could he have cystitis? Are you sure he did the wee in the tray upstairs? could it have been Lola?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Nope the wee upstairs is definitely Andre, I’m still separating the house when I’m out (although I probably don’t need to)

Yes it’s really taken me by surprise, not what I was expecting.

I don’t know whether to pop out and buy another litter tray for the area or make a vet appointment to eliminate medical issues 

Hannah


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I would pop another tray down - it could be his way of trying to make his mark.

How many wees do you think he’s doing in 24 hours? Has it increased? Are they smaller than they were?

I wonder if they should be allowed to be together full time now. It could be that he’s feeling he needs to make his mark in areas that he’s not allowed to go full time.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Quick note on the grooming - Lola has accepted he’s part of the family. They are fine now.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Just spotted what you said about there being a tray. Is it different from the one upstairs? Is it covered? Is it one Lola uses? Can you change the litter type and style of tray? 

Make sure you clean up well the old wees with simple solution or biotech or similar - something that will get rid of the odour completely or he will keep going back to the same place.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I feel terrible that although I clean out the litter trays regularly I don’t know the answer, I just clean them without taking notes!

I did get to yesterday evening and thought it strange that after the big clean in the morning there was only one little wee to clear up! Then he did a wee in the hallway late evening (not sure on size). Then his overnight one seemed smaller (in the tray upstairs). This morning I disturbed him as he started to wee in the hallway and he then did a little wee in his tray. 

I would say he normally does 5 -6 wees in a day. 

Including his 7.30 am wee he’s done 3 maybe 4. 2 fairly small, hard to tell with the ones in the blanket (one had soaked in the other hadn’t and needed mooing up). 

Need to wash the blanket now, not sure what to put in it’s place


Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Lola’s original tray is in the dining room which he doesn’t have access to when I’m out. The upstairs one is uncovered and the downstairs one covered although I took the lid off this morning as I thought it might be the problem. 

I can go to jolleys or pets at home to get differ litter and tray

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So back to number of wees... I’d say yesterday they were down in number, but so far today about in par...

Han


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Why don’t you swop the trays for tonight - it could be he doesn’t like the covered one. Or swop it with Lola’s. 

If you see him try to go anywhere else pick him up and put him in the tray. 

If it carries on it might be worth considering cystitis.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I feel terrible that although I clean out the litter trays regularly I don't know the answer, I just clean them without taking notes!
> 
> I did get to yesterday evening and thought it strange that after the big clean in the morning there was only one little wee to clear up! Then he did a wee in the hallway late evening (not sure on size). Then his overnight one seemed smaller (in the tray upstairs). This morning I disturbed him as he started to wee in the hallway and he then did a little wee in his tray.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of people use Vet bed as it's washable hun. Otherwise disposable puppy pads? That sounds like quite a lot of wee. Does he drink water a lot? As HB said use Biotex to clean soiled areas to get rid of the scent as it would be more likely he will go back there. Either way it's sonething you need to address pretty quickly. As he's only very recently been neutered I'd be inclined to make an appointment at the vets.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So something rather strange has happened. Andre was happily sat on my lap, but he may have sensed or heard something as he crept upstairs as if something was there (I don’t hear anything). Then creating around in and under the bed. Behaviour I’ve not really seen in him since the beginning. He’s coming round now, but it’s very odd. He’s normally ok with normal household noises.

Does remind me though that some idiot was letting odd fireworks on Saturday at 7.45! Lol had to come running in, Andre reacted a little but not too much

No he really doesn’t drink much water, maybe gets a very small number of biscuits as a treat but is otherwise on wet food.

I won’t be able to get any biotex until tomorrow now I don’t think (I know that’s not ideal).

Hannah


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Check the bed just in case he’s tried to wee. He could be getting urges to go but not actually doing anything. 

I am wondering about cystitis now esp as I’d forgotten he’d just been neutered. And fireworks won’t have helped. ETA could be the cause if it’s only happened since then. 

I think a vet visit might be in order to give him a once over.

You can use biological washing powder if you have it.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Ok, I’m inclined for a vet visit too

I’ve put a different litter tray out and with different litter. 

He’s currently running around the house like a nutter and Lola’s come in from outside - so they are running and chasing top to bottom through the house. 

Just checked the washing powder and it’s all non bio (new auto dosing washing machine has bio liquid loaded in it). 

I’m so worried /stressed (which might be a little silly). But I’m going to eat my slightly over cooked and slightly cold jacket potato. 

I’ve had a check round the house and I can’t finals any wees anywhere else (i normally rely on smelling things like this out). 

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Don’t get yourself stressed hun Andre will pick up on that! Only my opinion but I think it will be easily treated if it is medical. Taking him to the vet is best to rule that out then if no infection then you would know that you need to look at behavioural issues.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

It will be ok try not to worry - he doesn’t sound too out of sorts running around and playing. Hopefully the vet will suggest a course of cystease or cystophan or similar as long as no infection present. 

Might be an idea to try to catch a wee before you go if possible but don’t worry if not. Keep an eye on how often he goes and how much and check colour (pink/red def sign)

Maybe try to encourage a bit more fluid intake if you can and cut the dry/treats until you’ve been. 

It could be worth investing in a calm diffuser too for the next couple of months if there are going to be fireworks around.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@Soozi @huckybuck thanks so much for your support yesterday.

I was already thinking "what can I use to catch a wee"

Anyhow 2 wees (medium size) in the upstairs litter tray overnight, I'm back in bed so I haven't checked elsewhere (although I'd be surprised if he did more given the two he's done but will check when I'm more awake).

So apart from popping out for a quick 20 mins last night, and the strange 20 mins at about 7pm he was normal (well there or there abouts). He has develop an obsession for spiders, esp the whispy kind with the tiny bodies and skinny legs. And also like to highlight and cobwebs I have... He didn't do any wees from 17.30 to 22.30 nor did I see him "try" or anything like that.

He is however generally getting more cheeky by the day... I'm seen to be saying "what are you doing now" "why are you up there" an awful lot these days... (he's a good lad really )

Time to get up...

Hannah


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Glad to hear he seems normal for him - I wish i could remember how many wees the HBs used to do as kittens but I can't.

I do know they do 2/3 biggish ones each in 24 hours - that's their norm - so whether the wees get less as they get older????

Everything crossed he was just getting fussy over litter/trays and that's it. Have you thought about leaving them to it now while you work?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I have noticed that from when I first got him his wees are fewer in number... he used to an exorbitant number (sorry can't quantify), but it's reduced... I assumed it was part of growing up  So in short he does wee quite a bit but not excessively.

He does two poops a day... generally one early morning and another in the evening just as I'm putting my dinner on my plate :Vomit:Jawdrop:Hilarious

I was home this morning until nearly 10am and no miss-haps... there was a wee and a poop in litter tray no 3 (Lola's original one in the dining room). The wee could have been Lola as she was in (she has a short excursion outside this morning but came in due to rain) but I don't think it was as she digs for China whilst Andre doesn't dig at all!



huckybuck said:


> Have you thought about leaving them to it now while you work?


Yes and I think they are ready. Lola seems more comfortable in Andre's company and it might be that I'm causing more hassle/stress by separating them than not doing so...

Lola did hiss at Andre once this morning (I'm not sure why, I was looking the other way), and they had quite a rough and tumble in the middle of the living room a bit later (but not hissing or anything). Andre is certainly big enough to take care of himself now... They've also got a new game... I have long curtains in my living room that trail on the floor about 6 inches... Andre hides behind he curtain and Lola "attacks" from the front... (it is definitely play)

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

3 things:

1 - why has Andre decided that mad kitty time has been delayed till 9.15 doesn’t he know I got up at 5.30 and it’s my nap time now. 

2 - kittens are weird. I was really wondering why Andre was trying to squish himself on the sofa and try and out his paws being my back. Then I realised he was playing with my hair (it’s normally tied up but was down)

3 - he just wee’d in the hall litter tray... phew...

Hannah (p.s. I know I’m weird)


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## BarneyBobCat (Feb 22, 2019)

Barney decided it was mad kitten time at 2.10am this morning. Then he woke me up on the hour until I got up at 6.30am. Been zombie-fied today


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Oh well done Andre! Good boy! 
Saffy has just had her mad half hour! Well zoomies after her wee! Lol! xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So I decided to rip the door matting in my entrance area! It’s just so difficult to clean! I think I will put tiles or laminate down there just need to find someone to do the work. At the moment it’s a patchwork of towels/pro fleece (good job no one visits). 

Just as I say no one visits I did have someone out to mend the leaky pipes under my sink, Andre was scared of that visitor and his under the bed 

Andre and Lola still have quite active chase sessions and it does worry me that Lola is a bit bitey during them. Having said that they are starting to relax more in the same room (maybe due to the weather). Several times yesterday Andre tried to approach Lola but she warned him off getting too close but eventually he got to give her a little ear wash (she pulled a bit of a face but that was all). 

So yesterday I was out of the house on a craft class for a few hours and I left them to or together. All seemed well when I got home so fingers crossed. 

I’m short of time this weekend as I did the craft course yesterday and going to my parents for lunch today (which I know incl hour drive each way will be at least 5 hours), and I need to fit is shopping as I’ve run out of essentials (litter, toilet roll, bunny breakfast). 

On that note I really should get dressed 

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

OK... so after almost a week of success Andre has started to wee outside of his litter tray again! he's been good since last Monday but I caught him yesterday morning and in clearing up I noticed there was another one that I had previously not noticed. He did a little wee in the living room (not far from the hallway litter tray), which I presume was Sunday afternoon (as it was still wet when I found it), but I don't know if it was when I was at my Mums or later (either way I didn't notice him do it). He's still doing some wee's in his litter tray but not others...

I kept a close eye on him this morning and it was like he was hunting out his litter tray but then choosing to go nearby (e.g. on the mats around them) but not in the tray - because I disturbed him he didn't go outside the litter tray but eventually went in it to go!

I didn't take him to the vet in the end last week because things improved and quickly but now I think one is in order, I'm just debating whether to make an appointment for this evening or wait for the cat only clinic tomorrow?? In all other areas he seem fine...

I feel so guilty because:
A) I made a cheery post yesterday ignoring the problem that has occurred in the morning - so I feel I've lied to you guys when you've been so supportive.
B) I had horrible thoughts last night/this morning when I couldn't sleep that I wished it was just me and Lola again  (I'm upset with myself for thinking this).
C) I didn't take him to the vets last week (I genuinely thought he was ok as was using his tray 100%)

Also (I have such good colleagues at work):









Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Sometimes I just overshare!

So I've made a vet appointment - there wasn't anything for today... so we have an appointment at 9.15am tomorrow - which is at the cat only clinic.

The phone call went like this:
ME: "can I make an appointment for Andre please"
RECEPTIONIST: "i'll just go get the rota" and put me on hold...
ME:  why does she need to rota... then I twigged she thought I'd said "an appointment _with_ Andre"...
When she came back onto the line I explained  (we had a good giggle...)

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

I don’t blame you for leaving the vet until you knew there was a problem hun. 
Also don’t feel bad about your fleeting thoughts about just having Lola that’s completely normal when frustration rears it’s ugly head I know I’ve had those moments in the past and you feel so bad when you look at them and have to say I’m so sorry I wouldn’t part with you for the world. It brought me to tears once Lol! 
I have a feeling it’s behavioral but get the all clear that it’s not a bit of cystitis being as he neuter was so recent. 
I would replace the matting for tiles or even Lino. Laminate can swell and blows if wee gets underneath. 
Is it your Birthday today???? 
xxx


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Oh it's a shame that he's doing it again.

Glad you have an appointment for him though - just to check all ok.

If vet is happy with him (infection wise) ask about cystophan for a few weeks until he settles.

Have you got the biotex????

Oh and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!! For Friday?????? xxxx


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

^^^ cystophan is a good place to start! I agree!!!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

*HAPPY BIRTHDAY HUN!!!! xxx








*


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Hi,

Yes my birthday is today  (not a big/milestone one though...) it was nice to come into work to present, balloons and a special Costa (other coffee shops are available) hot choc from the two people that work for me 

Before he was just weeing in the entrance hall area (or litter trays), now he seems to be weeing around his other litter trays. Will get the biological washing powered out tonight to have a good clean around the areas I may have not done so well...

Of course it could be all manner of problems on the behavioural side: he got scared of the plumber on Friday (hid under the bed... but came out pretty quickly once he left)... him and Lola are spending more time together (Lola can be quite rude at time - but then they settle)... adolescence (is that even a thing in cats??). When I made the appointment I was along the lines of "I want to eliminate medical issues"... 

p.s. Andre is almost at tall as Lola now 

Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

A very happy birthday to you!


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Happy birthday !


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Happy Birthday!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Happy Birthday xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks everyone


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Oh my goodness! I’m not sure I can cope!

Andre has done one wee since 7.30 this morning which for him isn’t much so I can’t help thinking he’s done one I can’t find

Both cats are mad this evening! I know they are playing to a point but I struggle with how rough they are and how platonic it is. For my own nerves I’ve had to give them some kitty time out!

It’s pouring with rain and torrential downpours are forecast so I’m worried about the drain outside my house will overflow. 

I think I need some pet remedy or feliway!

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Oh my goodness! I'm not sure I can cope!
> 
> Andre has done one wee since 7.30 this morning which for him isn't much so I can't help thinking he's done one I can't find
> 
> ...


Don't panic hun! If they were hurting each other you would know! If you look at a few clips on YouTube you will see how rough they can play. 
Order a black light online and you can go around the house to see if you find any Wee. See what the vet says tomorrow and ask him about giving Andre cystophan.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thank you, some deep breaths are required and some dinner. 

I’ve been going around on my hand and knees investigating every surface lol! 

I’ve opened my presents form work and I have some lovely handcream and some nice notebooks and pens which will brighten up my work days 

H x


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Pet Remedy def works on humans too!!!!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I look shocking but to show we've kissed and made up (not that we actually felt out)









H x


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Any news from the vet visit today @Willow_Warren? xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Soozi said:


> Any news from the vet visit today @Willow_Warren? xxx


The short version - the vet did not believe there to be anything wrong with Andre and it's being put down as behavioural issues... I forgot to ask about cystophan I'm afraid...

Of course this could almost be more difficult to solve... if I can't identify the trigger... so for now keeping up with a good cleaning regime for any "accidents" that I notice... (my worry is if I don't spot some, so I may order one of those lights this evening for my own peace of mind)

Hannah


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Willow_Warren said:


> The short version - the vet did not believe there to be anything wrong with Andre and it's being put down as behavioural issues... I forgot to ask about cystophan I'm afraid...
> 
> Of course this could almost be more difficult to solve... if I can't identify the trigger... so for now keeping up with a good cleaning regime for any "accidents" that I notice... (my worry is if I don't spot some, so I may order one of those lights this evening for my own peace of mind)
> 
> Hannah


Ok behavioural then def ask about custophan/cystease - it won't do him any harm (you don't need a prescription). Holly has maintenance cystophan every day and I've actually just put Little H on it for now as they are having issues between them for some reason.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Willow_Warren said:


> The short version - the vet did not believe there to be anything wrong with Andre and it's being put down as behavioural issues... I forgot to ask about cystophan I'm afraid...
> 
> Of course this could almost be more difficult to solve... if I can't identify the trigger... so for now keeping up with a good cleaning regime for any "accidents" that I notice... (my worry is if I don't spot some, so I may order one of those lights this evening for my own peace of mind)
> 
> Hannah


Those lights are horrifying - be prepared lol - when I got one I thought I'd stepped into a crime scene!!!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

huckybuck said:


> Those lights are horrifying - be prepared lol - when I got one I thought I'd stepped into a crime scene!!!


Yep... I was thinking of what else it might highlight! Reminded me of that episode of top gear when they bought the second hand cars and found all sorts of unmentionable stains etc...


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

huckybuck said:


> Ok behavioural then def ask about custophan/cystease - it won't do him any harm (you don't need a prescription). Holly has maintenance cystophan every day and I've actually just put Little H on it for now as they are having issues between them for some reason.


Just checking is this what you are referring to?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Feliway-D7...ords=feliway&qid=1570003695&s=gateway&sr=8-10

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Protexin-V...rds=cystophan&qid=1570003876&s=gateway&sr=8-1

They are on same day delivery.



Soozi said:


> Don't panic hun! If they were hurting each other you would know! If you look at a few clips on YouTube you will see how rough they can play.


Yes.. of course!! There's hasn't been anything more than a little scratch and that was weeks ago! I did look at YouTube... 

Hannah


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Willow_Warren said:


> Just checking is this what you are referring to?
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Feliway-D7...ords=feliway&qid=1570003695&s=gateway&sr=8-10
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Protexin-V...rds=cystophan&qid=1570003876&s=gateway&sr=8-1
> ...


Yes they are the capsules
I've used both before x


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Willow_Warren said:


> Just checking is this what you are referring to?
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Feliway-D7...ords=feliway&qid=1570003695&s=gateway&sr=8-10
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Protexin-V...rds=cystophan&qid=1570003876&s=gateway&sr=8-1
> ...


Yes either of those - they do pretty much the same thing.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@huckybuck @ebonycat thanks.

I managed to speak to the vet and she said it would do no harm at all so I have ordered some for delivery today. Obviously it won't mean instant results but just lets see for now!

Going to start thinking about firework preparation as well... our vets are starting a blog on it to prepare in advance 

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> @huckybuck @ebonycat thanks.
> 
> I managed to speak to the vet and she said it would do no harm at all so I have ordered some for delivery today. Obviously it won't mean instant results but just lets see for now!
> 
> ...


I think cystophan is worth a shot too Hun! Glad the vet agreed! xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well it arrived, but one knock on the door and Andre ran up the stairs scared... bless him... anyhow I enticed him back down with a toy and we’ve having some purry cuddle time on the sofa before I have my dinner. 

During the day we had 2 wees in the litter tray and another one earlier this evening, not found any elsewhere. It’s only one day but it’s better than yesterday and thinking selfishly at least I have an evening off scrubbing & cleaning, and trying to relax a little and not stress. I’m a firm believer that animals pick up on stress which would be counter productive. 

Hannah x


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I'd put him on 1 x twice a day to begin with - it should also help with bonfire night as well - it can take 2/3 days to see results but I can actually see the difference in Holly after about an hour - she goes all purry and friendly. 

Holly's on maintenance of 1 a day long term now (although I have just upped hers to twice a day for a little while and put Little H on it as well, until they sort out their differences). 

I may well keep them both on it until after all the fireworks too. 

I def recommend Pet Remedy diffusers and the Beaphar calm room spray (if you can cope with the pong) for calming too over bonfire night etc.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So when I went home at lunchtime there was one wee in the litter tray number 2 and nothing else to be found... excellent... gave them both some lunch.. then he went to wee on the mat by litter tray number 3 - I disturbed him (not particularly intentionally), so he only managed a little one... then he did a poop in the tray instead (well maybe not instead but that's what he did)... Then I swear he was about to wee in Lola's bed... I disturbed him again (this time intentionally), so we went out and did a wee in by the front door = disappointed...  

I don't disturb him in an aggressive way... I'm just getting closer to check what he's doing but he will run off...

Floors cleaned, mats in washing machine... I really just wish i knew why...

H


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Sounds like possible marking to me esp if he was going to do it in Lola’s bed. 

Try not to worry been there myself with Little H and we did get through it. 

Have you managed to start the cystophan yet? 

xx


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Oh another thought perhaps 2 trays where he was going to wee and poo - they don’t like doing it in the same tray.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

huckybuck said:


> Have you managed to start the cystophan yet?
> 
> xx


Yep with his evening meal last night.



huckybuck said:


> Oh another thought perhaps 2 trays where he was going to wee and poo - they don't like doing it in the same tray.


It's not bothered him before - he will often do one straight after the other. I can try though...

I can't be 100% sure on Lola's bed... I was rather shocked though... as previously it's always been by the litter trays...

H

p.s. he did seem a bit on edge at lunchtime... my neighbours seem to be doing some building work then an alarm went off. Not that either thing stopped him eating... and I'm not sure if I'm looking for reasons simply to make myself feel better...


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I think it might be an idea to start on 1 twice a day for a week or two - then drop to once a day for maintenance. 

But you can double check with your vet to make sure of dosage.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

@huckybuck @Willow_Warren when I gave it to mine years ago, it was a capsule twice a day for x weeks, then dropping to a daily maintenance capsule.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I can of course check with the vet, I was going by packet which was 1 per day for cats <3kg

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Oh no I really hope the cystophan helps! I fortunately have never had toilet problems with my cat’s but then I’ve only had one cat at a time and I think the problem is more common in multi cat households. I agree with HB that Andre is marking and claiming areas as his. 
I do hope you can nip it in the bud. Don’t give up hun.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well I came home to another wee in the hallway  I just don’t know what to do to prevent it. 

I’ve no clean mats to put down now as the ones from lunchtime are still one the washing machine and I’ve has to just out the dirty ones outside in the rain whilst the machine finishes washing. 

Neither him nor Lola are interested in anything but chasing each other at the minute, I feel like it’s just not working. 

I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t want him in my bedroom but can’t stop him as the door doesn’t shut. 

I don’t want to sound like I’m not putting the cats first but I’m sat here with tears streaming down my face... (and a snotty nose)


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Well I came home to another wee in the hallway  I just don't know what to do to prevent it.
> 
> I've no clean mats to put down now as the ones from lunchtime are still one the washing machine and I've has to just out the dirty ones outside in the rain whilst the machine finishes washing.
> 
> ...


Oh hun don't let it get you down. Andre is still so young and establishing himself. How about separating them again for a bit? Is Lola not going out much? You could try putting puppy pads down that you can throw away instead of mats that you have to wash. Have you tried Zylkene or Yucalm?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well I just separated them for a bit and Lola relaxed momentary then went out and in those few seconds Andre did another wee in the hallway.

Yes puppy pads would help if he doesn’t chew them. I may pick some up tomorrow, but it won’t be until after work.

For some reason Andre is totally wired tonight, I’m not even getting a cuddle, i haven’t had one all day. Or he can sense my upset.

I have not tried Zylkene or Yucalm I will them up.

Hannah

P.s. I don’t really want Lola going out this late after dark


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Are you allowing them to integrate 24/7 now?

Are you having play sessions to wear him out - kittens have a lot of energy which needs to be diffused. Playing with them both in the same room (and giving treats) reinforces happy times in close proximity.

You will get through this but I totally get how tiring and frustrating it is. I’ve been there.

If it were me I’d put both Andre and Lola on the cystophan (or Andre cystophan and Lola zylkene) twice a day for 2/3 weeks. I’d also get a couple of diffusers for the house - Pet Remedy and/Feliway FRIENDS. 

Take up all mats/rugs and just pop down puppy pads instead to protect the carpet.

Any incidences really need tackling with biotex or simple solution - anything else wont get rid of the odour to Andre.

If you PM me your address I have some other bits that might help and I can send at the weekend. ETA got it through SS xx 

Keep you chin up - this is just a blip xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

If only he could talk...










He's on my lap having a wash thus the strange angle.

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

huckybuck said:


> Are you allowing them to integrate 24/7 now?


I was from Saturday then stopped Tuesday... I thought it might be Lola upsetting him... but I'm now not sure that's the case. Maybe it's made it worse...

Lola is spending more time inside due to the weather.

1% battery and can't reach charger


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I think Andre is confused and it’s territorial.

He needs to know that the house is as much his as Lola so I would def not separate any more. Once he feels his scent is around (at the moment he’s having to keep re doing this by marking because he’s being separated) he should settle down.

Check previous post too as edited xx


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

I would take HB’s advice as she has experience with these issues H. 
I didn’t think they had been separated for quite a while so hence suggested it.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks again for the kind support, I got upset earlier because I felt I was taking one step forward two steps back.

I reply properly in the morning, but @huckybuck im going to do everything you say.

Hannah

P.s. Lola came back in at 9pm, she is safe and sound for the night.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Ok I shouldn't be replying now as I'm at work.

1 - is this the Zylene https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/...cats-and-small-dogs-20-capsules-(online-only) I will phone up to check they have it is store (if I can work out how to pronounce in 

2 - I have feliway friends I will order a pet remedy from amazon (thought it was on same day but it's on next day but it is considerably cheaper than [email protected])

3 - The Lola & Andre have not been separated and I am at work.

4 - Yes I have been using simple solution but I now have some biotex (I could only find it in Waitrose)... they both have very similar colour packaging. Simple solution doesn't seem to go too far...

5 - Overnight Andre did a poop in the litter tray and wee outside (litter tray number 1). This morning he did 1 wee in the hallway (I'm not sure when as i had eyes on him almost all the time), i cleared in up and sprayed simple solution (I am not sure it works on concrete). Then when I was in the shower he did another one, pretty much in the same place... Not sure it really was 2 x wees or two halves of the same wee and if I had inadvertently and unknowingly disturbed the first one...(Lola was in but I doubt it was her... she normally does her wee outside but as I was playing with Andre at the time I didn't observe her). Anyhow this time i scrubbed with a biotex solution - again I'm not sure this is for use on concrete... think I may have used too much as I struggled to get rid of the suds... (anyway this made me late for work... good job it was Friday and the roads were quiet!)

NB: to explain my hallway... I pulled up the door mat type surface so it is down to concrete. I had put plastic sheeting on the concrete with towels/mats/blankets on top to help cleaning. As every mat/towel etc was being washing this morning it was just plastic... This morning he managed to wee between two different plastic sheets and so it soaked through to the concrete.

6 - I will go to pets at home at lunchtime to buy puppypads then home - it will be a rush but I'll manage it (I will not get distracted in store).

7 - I went to put my cat scarf on this morning... then I decided to wear the rabbit one instead...

8 - yes I have play sessions... maybe not enough... I will make an effort to increase. He isn't amazingly interested in wand toys... I have been trying to teach fetch with some other toys.. somewhat unsuccessfully... p), he seems to like playing with the ball style toys in the kitchen, I think it's because they scoot around so much due to the hard floor. He also likes playing with leaves... and i seem to be treading one in each time I go outside...

So frustrating after 24 good hours on Wednesday followed by a change yesterday lunchtime... but I cant' work out the catalyst for this...

Hannah

p.s. when I went to search for the pets at home website I inadvertently searched "pets" and this came up (sweet!):


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

@Willow_Warren yes that is the zylkene BUT if you're buying online its cheaper on other sites.

2. Get the larger, dog size. It's the same product and works out cheaper! I get the 450gms and do a guesstimate of 4 doses. It'll be a larger dose but won't harm them. In fact some members recommend a higher dose than the 75gms, for greater effectiveness


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

@Willow_Warren hun I think the wee smell will still permeate the concrete and nothing you do will get rid of the scent. How about for now getting just a piece of Lino if the area isn't too big you might be able to lay it yourself or see what a shop would charge. It would do for now.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Soozi said:


> @Willow_Warren hun I think the wee smell will still permeate the concrete and nothing you do will get rid of the scent. How about for now getting just a piece of Lino if the area isn't too big you might be able to lay it yourself or see what a shop would charge. It would do for now.


I had a look earlier in the week, it seems the only flooring you can get these says is Vinyl. I fitted vinyl flooring to the rabbit shed... _badly_...

I did wonder how porous concrete was... but I don't really know what to do now to get rid of the smell... (or course I guess new flooring on top would help).... I've created problems!!! Although I think the wee had seeped through the original matting so I guess I'm in no worse position... oh...I don't know...

Till yesterday lunchtime he had not wee'd in the hallway since Sunday... oh my...

H x


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## Tawny75 (Sep 25, 2013)

@Willow_Warren try places like B&M or Home Bargains or QD for puppy pads, I use them for my ferrets and they are much much cheaper there.

As for lino suggested by Soozi. Places like Carpetright have really cheap vinyl you can buy off the roll, I am pretty sure it is easy to fit too, youtube is your friend x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I will watch the video later!

I don't even own a stanley knife!

Wonder if I can sweet talk the maintenance guy at work...


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Tawny75 said:


> @Willow_Warren try places like B&M or Home Bargains or QD for puppy pads, I use them for my ferrets and they are much much cheaper there.
> 
> As for lino suggested by Soozi. Places like Carpetright have really cheap vinyl you can buy off the roll, I am pretty sure it is easy to fit too, youtube is your friend x


I did mean vinyl! Lino is the old fashioned word for it now I suppose! Lol!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I will watch the video later!
> 
> I don't even own a stanley knife!
> 
> Wonder if I can sweet talk the maintenance guy at work...


Flutter your eyelashes hun! Lol! Keep washing the concrete with biotex and you should get rid of the scent eventually.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@Soozi I might be too old for fluttering eyelashes to work 

I will measure my hall at lunchtime if I can find my tape measure easily!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> @Soozi I might be too old for fluttering eyelashes to work
> 
> I will measure my hall at lunchtime if I can find my tape measure easily!


Offer him cash in hand???


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Sorry to hear about the misplaced wee.

I agree it may be stress or it may be territorial marking.

When I had this happen this past summer with a foster cat, the areas she urinated were on our bed and the couch. From what I understand, that is comfort marking to mingle scents, as human scent is strong in those places.

If Andre urinated on Lola's bed it may have been the same to bond closer with her.
Not sure about the floor.
But the calming supplements, Pet Remedy etc should all help.

I used special cat urine removers & washed the bedding with biological detergent.
I also liberally sprayed calming sprays with valerian and dosed the foster kitty with them. In my case it back fired a bit, as I think the smell was so strong, Biggles came to see her as a toy. Not appreciated by Luna the foster kitty.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well I got picked up the Zyklene from [email protected] (I asked them to put it by when I called this morning and puppy pads)... then home...

There was one wee in the hall and one small wee in one of the hallway litter trays. Whilst i was home he also wee'd on the mat in front of litter tray number 3 - he was there and done in a flash (dining room - hard floor so easier to clean). Now including he overnight wee this seems like *a lot* to me (in quantity if not volume)... that's 6 today in total... this is more than normal... of course Lola is in so I can't 100% say any of these weren't her's... but the only time she has gone inside previously is when she is shut in!

All areas that have been "used" are now covered in the puppy pads - by entrance hall is somewhat a patchwork of them!

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Well I got picked up the Zyklene from [email protected] (I asked them to put it by when I called this morning and puppy pads)... then home...
> 
> There was one wee in the hall and one small wee in one of the hallway litter trays. Whilst i was home he also wee'd on the mat in front of litter tray number 3 - he was there and done in a flash (dining room - hard floor so easier to clean). Now including he overnight wee this seems like *a lot* to me (in quantity if not volume)... that's 6 today in total... this is more than normal... of course Lola is in so I can't 100% say any of these weren't her's... but the only time she has gone inside previously is when she is shut in!
> 
> ...


Hun did your vet ask you to take a urine sample in? Is the wee dark in colour?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Soozi said:


> Hun did your vet ask you to take a urine sample in? Is the wee dark in colour?


This number of wees is a new thing today. No she did mention a sample as she put it totally down to behaviour, I was thinking exactly the same as I drove back work (remembering another forum post and wondering if I had a soup ladle... lol... Andre is so fast though it's going near impossible task)

No it's not dark in colour.

Han x


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> This number of wees is a new thing today. No she did mention a sample as she put it totally down to behaviour, I was thinking exactly the same as I drove back work (remembering another forum post and wondering if I had a soup ladle... lol... Andre is so fast though it's going near impossible task)
> 
> No it's not dark in colour.
> 
> Han x


TBH it does sound like a behavioural issue but a urine sample is an easy enough test to do to be sure. It does sound like a lot of urine for one cat to do a day.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Is Andre on 2 cystophan now? 

And what about Lola? 

Just in case we are blaming Andre there is potential it may be both?

On the plus side you left them together and they are ok. I think making this the norm should really help both of them accept they are sharing territory.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

huckybuck said:


> Is Andre on 2 cystophan now?
> 
> And what about Lola?
> 
> ...


He's only on 1, but I will up to 2 from tomorrow morning (_I promise_) - I presume a higher dose than recommended will not do any harm...

Will start Lola on the Zylene this evening... well in about 90 minutes (I only picked them up at lunch and she only had a little snack so not much to mix it in with)

Due to circumstance and eyewitness the only ones I can't attribute 100% to Andre was the one when I was in the shower and those whilst i was at work this morning... all others were defiantly Andre.

I'm going to start keeping a log of how many wee's he does & where... it might not help but it will ascertain if they are increasing in number. Currently I cannot find any trend to it.

H x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Now... what so I do with my evening? Pretend everything is good and get on the my evening...???

H x


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I would double check with vet just in case - say you want to give him 2 and is that ok?

I think it’s a good idea to keep a diary of when and where (and I think it’s safe to assume it’s him doing it for now). Can you take a couple of pics if/when he does it - showing where the tray is, what type and what litter and where else he’s doing it. We might think of something to help if we see it.

It might also help to put your feliway close to the place he’s doing it the most and I’m seriously wondering about moving the trays too just to try and break the habit.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Willow_Warren said:


> Now... what so I do with my evening? Pretend everything is good and get on the my evening...???
> 
> H x


I think that's a great idea. 
Friday night - have a play with both, give them some treats, have a glass of wine and try to relax. (One eye on Andre just in case).


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

It’s a difficult one with Andre. 
How about a much bigger tray? Or that cat attract litter?
I’m also wondering if there is anything that goes on outside the front door that is bothering him. 
There has to be a reason and hopefully we will get to the bottom of it.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Just order the pet remedy, ended up ordering the 120 day starter kit

Just checking, you want pictures of wee stained puppy pads? Or Andre doing the deed. Either way this is going to be a lovely collection on my phone (please take this not as a flippant comment but in the lighthearted way I mean it) 

I have tried new litter in a new tray in a new place in the hall (although not far from original as space is small anyhow). I wasn’t sure about changing too much but then he’s not using them anyhow. 

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Soozi said:


> There has to be a reason and hopefully we will get to the bottom of it.


I think that's the problem / frustration, without knowing a cause it's hard to find a solution (very basically put).

H x


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> I think that's the problem / frustration, without knowing a cause it's hard to find a solution (very basically put).
> 
> H x


Normally I would say not to move his tray but it's a question of trial and error. And it's worth a try.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I think it’s worth a try moving stuff as it might get him away from the area - you never know. 

Yes pics of where the tray is and where he’s actually weeing in relation - and where everything is in the room IYSWIM. 

You should see the photos on my phone sometimes!!!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So I’m going to start off with a nice story... after getting up 4am (back to that bit later), I was half awake half dozing whilst trying to keep still under the covers. Well at about 5.15-5.30 I ended up with Andre curled up against one foot and Lola between/on my other foot and my big fat bottom! So only a few inches apart. It didn’t last long but that was partly due to me moving. 

Unfortunately litter tray habits haven’t improved . Last night he went to wee on the pad by tray 3, I gently picked him up and put him in the tray (he left), moments later he went to go on the pad again, so once more I picked him up and put him in the tray, this time he went there (now I’m no idea given his circumstances if this was the right thing to do but it’s done now). Overnight he went on the pad by tray 3, this was why I got up at 4am because it’s the one upstairs and I could smell it. 

The pads are obviously making my life easier (and cleaner). But it’s not a solution. 

I’m going horse riding in a bit so I’ll be leaving them alone for a while. I also hope I can switch off and not worry about Andre for an hour. 

Hannah


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Right let’s look at the positives. 

It’s fine to move him - you are Mum and trying to teach him the best place to go. 


So he’s choosing to go next to tray 3. He’s happy using pads. 

Negatives - why doesn’t he like tray 3??? There has to be a reason. Are the sides too high? Is it the litter? Does it have an odour? 

I think a NEW LOW tray with a PAD ONLY to begin with (forget litter for now as he needs to start again from scratch). 

Something completely fresh and clean with no other odours. But we need to NOT put any other pads near it either or that will confuse him. 

I’m wondering what else you could put down near/ around the tray that might stop him attempting to go outside the tray. Maybe a couple of his toys placed strategically or some mugs/plates/glasses (not his) around it - thinking out loud, we’re just trying to make it slightly awkward for him to wee next to the tray and easier if he wees in it. But still be able to get to it easily enough. 

Hope you had a nice morning.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Morning all! I think putting a pad in a clean new tray without litter is deffo worth a shot! I would also get that floor covered with vinyl as soon as you can. The odours on concrete will become very strong otherwise and won’t help matters. He will keep going there. 
Enjoy your riding. 
x


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## Tawny75 (Sep 25, 2013)

How about laying newspaper all round it and just have the pad in the tray as has been suggested above.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Tawny75 said:


> How about laying newspaper all round it and just have the pad in the tray as has been suggested above.


I'm a bit worried newspaper will feel too similar to the pad - maybe scrunched up rolls of it might deter - he can play with those too.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I’m convinced that time wise, once Andre feels confident that the whole house is his properly, as well as Lola’s, then it will get better. 

Lots of play and treats in all rooms inc the hall should help him associate each room with happy things.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Sorry for not replying sooner, had a few things to do once I got back from riding (which incl playing with the kittens). Then I sat in the sofa with a late lunch and fell asleep, just waking up now.

Yes I need to get the floor sorted, although it doesn't explain why he's gone outside the tray 3 as that's a hard floor that's been well cleaned with the right stuff. I'd like to put tiles down in there ultimately.

On a positive side Lola and Andre do seem to be getting in better together, she does like give Andre a bit of a lick at times.

I've taken everything in board that's been suggested, I'm trying the puppy pad in a new litter tray etc, I was musing over the same thing as I was driving... (I do fund driving gives good thinking time).

You really feel responsible for all the critters... Of course I want to do my best but know I dont always...

Hannah

P.s.within seconds of posting this Andre used tray number 3a, the new one with the puppy pad in dining room. He didn't think twice about stepping into the tray! He's damn speedy about his wees! Lola takes ages to choose the right place in the garden to go!


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Ok well that’s a really good start. 

Maybe a new tray with just a pad in all the areas he’s been going just for a while. I know it’s a few extra trays (and puppy pads) but I think worth it to get him in the habit for now. 

Give it a few days with hopefully no accidents and then we’ll take it from there. 

(My suggestion will eventually be to move on to a small amount of sand type litter that’s really soft on his feet starting really gradually - just a tiny amount sprinkled on the pad and building up little by little....so maybe this week look for a super soft sand type litter to have when you are ready). 

Everything crossed you have at least one area sorted xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I was thinking the same re slowly introducing litter back into the tray

Ok... so some development... but I don’t want to read too much into it as we’ve had one step forward and two steps back before. 

Twice yesterday evening he want to “go” in the hallway, I didn’t tell him off or pick him up but he could see me watching him (I wasn’t that close or imposing) he left the hallway but went to use tray 3”a” instead (dining room puppy pad). Overnight (I suspect 4-5.30) he used the tray on the hall (normal one I haven’t got one for puppy pad yet). 

This morning just now he went into the hall, I suspected for a wee, so all I did was literally peer around into the hall, thought he was going to go on one of the pads but he did a little “meep” and went and used the normal tray. Good boy, obviously if I wasn’t there I’m not sure what would have happened, and I’m back at work tomorrow. 

He’s normally a 5-6 wee a day guy, which is a fair amount. Yesterday was 7 but then 1 was 23.20 which would usually get counted the following day. 

Part of my thinks he needs more mental stimulation, I have plenty of different toys but he only shows so much interest in them. Obviously Lola provides interest, but only so much (she’s tolerant but it only goes so far)

Lola’s currently asleep upstairs, don’t think she got her full 8 hours last night, “someone” bounced on the bed, possibly straight onto her at various hours last night. Bless her she stayed put, she really does zone out during the night. 

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

P.s. right now I have no problems with extra trays/ puppy pads


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I think a couple of things may be happening. 

The cystophan has started to take effect - ultimately would like to think his number of wees per day drops a little but let’s see. 

He’s realised he’s supposed to be using a tray - Mum has been teaching and is watching - so is now thinking about it. 

The smell of his previous wees has died down so less likely to return. 

He has been using the tray with pad of his own accord quite happily so trays in general are becoming more familiar as a toilet place. 

I would still be happier if you had a couple of extra trays with pads near the litter ones just in case as you are making fab progress. Would be a shame to have any accidents and undo the good work. 

Keep up with cystophan and I agree some extra play/stimulation and treats to reinforce happy feelings wouldn’t go amiss.

Everything crossed this is a step in the right direction xx


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I wouldn’t do anything about re introducing litter just yet. Give it a bit longer xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

huckybuck said:


> I would still be happier if you had a couple of extra trays with pads near the litter ones just in case as you are making fab progress. Would be a shame to have any accidents and undo the good work.


I have set this up today. The difficulty is discouraging other areas but of the hallway as I still need to open the door inwards (to get out). I have rescrubbed the floor in there.

I am concerned with the number of times he is going, I'm keeping a record.

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

For something lighthearted!

No-one warned me of the following when getting two cats:
1 - how difficult it is to sleep with two cats on the bed... esp when they are each side of your legs rendering you immobile!
2 - they club together and *gang *up on you when_ they_ think it's food time
3 - I like to do things in 3s but I can't think of anything else right now... I'll come back to you later!

Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> For something lighthearted!
> 
> No-one warned me of the following when getting two cats:
> 1 - how difficult it is to sleep with two cats on the bed... esp when they are each side of your legs rendering you immobile!
> ...


I know your 3: Nobody told you that two cats are only two and not three and you like to do things in threes so need another cat now


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Apologies for the lack of an update... it's not because I'm being rude...

After some previous good days last week and the week before etc I don't want to be falsely optimistic...

Hannah x


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Don’t jinx it!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

ChaosCat said:


> Don't jinx it!


Exactly!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Hoping still positive hun but won’t say the W word.  xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So I was nearly late for work today as I was too busy/distracted playing with Lola and Andre... then they beat me up for treats!

I don't think I have ever put clothes on so quickly.. as for my hair...I probably should have opted for a paper bag... 

Hannah


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## Tawny75 (Sep 25, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> For something lighthearted!
> 
> No-one warned me of the following when getting two cats:
> 1 - how difficult it is to sleep with two cats on the bed... esp when they are each side of your legs rendering you immobile!
> ...


I could not agree more with this. My two manage to take up the whole of a double bed leaving me one small bit in the middle and I am not a small girl!

However, there is also twice the love and affection back as well


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I know you don’t want to tempt fate but can you whisper if things are ok?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Sorry I missed this yesterday.... I did play with the cats a bit when I got home from work but mainly I slept... I'm not feeling too bright this morning but I have to go to London this afternoon for a 3 hours meeting (JOY!!). WFH this morning...

I will update tomorrow or Sunday... then it will be one week... (_but I can say that Andre has been a very good boy..._)

Ermmm... welll I say a good boy... him and Lola teamed together last night and stole the duvet... I woke with a kind of cold draft on one side of me! Also Andre has learnt to jump on the kitchen work surfaces... I was hoping Lola would tell him it's not acceptable...but I swear she's either sniggering in a corner or egging him on!!! Andre has also learnt where the treat jar is... and i was trying to share a moist stick between them but somehow Andre ended up on my head... I'm still not sure how or why...

Hannah 

p.s. I've been walking around with many more smiles this week and do feel somewhat embarrassed by my attitude last week... I'll blame birthday blues and getting older... or this miserable weather... or anything...


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Don’t we all have down times now and then?
So glad things are looking more cheery for you!


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Willow_Warren said:


> p.s. I've been walking around with many more smiles this week and do feel somewhat embarrassed by my attitude last week...


Oh, don't beat yourself up over it. When I was having loads of problems integrating Charlie-girl and Lorelei I cried on many a shoulder - virtually, over the phone and in real life!


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Will look forward to hearing how things are at the weekend...but glad you are smiling. 

There’s a horrid debilitating virus doing the rounds so be kind to yourself, stay warm, get lots of rest and take your vitamins xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Ok... so time for a proper update... I am purposely keeping it factual so as not to temp fate...

Firstly Andre has not wee'd outside of a littler tray since Saturday morning last week so a whole week ago now...

I am keeping a record of all his "movements", I was going to share it all but quite frankly it's a lot to type up!

So we have 3 litter tray locations and two litter trays in each location, one with litter and one with a puppypad... Location 1 = upstairs spare room - his old safe room. Location 2 - the entrance hall. Location 3 - the dining room (which I actually use for craft and not eating).

Trying to summarise:

He has not used the puppypad litter tray in location 1 at all, but he has used the standard one it to wee and poop in (only overnight - early morning when I think he is upstairs - he's taken to at least sleeping some of the night on my bed).

He has used litter tray 2 with puppy pad 3 times but not since Tuesday - the has use the standard litter tray a few time for both wee and poop!

He seems to have a preference for litter tray 3 (more so when I am home??). He is using the main litter tray for poop and sometimes for wee... but he is also quite often using the puppy pad litter tray for a wee!! He have had a few problem with him getting wee on his feet using this - I think it depends on where he positions himself as the tray has a slight dome to the middle (not much... but enough...).

Last Saturday/Sunday we had 7/8 wees in a day... which is rather a lot... but this has reduced to 5-6 (which is a fair amount but his usual).

Keeping up with the Cystease for Andre and the Zylkene for Lola, feliway friends in the living room and pet remedy in the hallway. We'v also tried the calming treats that @huckybuck kindly send over to us.

What I would probably like to do next is start to introduce litter to the puppypad tray that's being used in the dining room - but I don't want to upset the apple cart too soon!

The only time Andre and Lola are separated is to allow Lola to finish her dinner as otherwise shovel mouth greedy chops eats it!!! (Lola will go outside but she is spending significantly more time inside).

He's a photo of them both on top of the scratching post which wouldn't have happened a while back. Lola still has her boundaries and Andre does of course try to push them.. but I think it's much better... (Lola allowed Andre to wash her head/ears this morning - then of course he went too far trying to put his paw on her and she said enough was enough... but it's all a learning experience for them both).

Tried to keep is short.. but seem to have failed... Thanks to everybody for their listening and for their support 

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Ok... so time for a proper update... I am purposely keeping it factual so as not to temp fate...
> 
> Firstly Andre has not wee'd outside of a littler tray since Saturday morning last week so a whole week ago now...
> 
> ...


It's all sounding positive love! I would leave everything as is for now but if Andre has the run of house I think that has helped tbh. Well done. I love it that Lola has at least accepted a few licks from Andre! Awwww! xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Here the photo (had to swap devices)










You can also see that he's getting close to her size and he's only just over 5 months 

H x


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Ok... so time for a proper update... I am purposely keeping it factual so as not to temp fate...
> 
> Firstly Andre has not wee'd outside of a littler tray since Saturday morning last week so a whole week ago now...
> 
> ...


This all sounds really positive... But I can't see the promised picture!


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> Here the photo (had to swap devices)
> 
> View attachment 419374
> 
> ...


Ahhh  lovely pic of them


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Psygon said:


> This all sounds really positive... But I can't see the promised picture!


sorry swapped devices and made myself a hot choc (with a good glug of Baileys in between)


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

They look gorgeous together! ❤❤


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Willow_Warren said:


> Ok... so time for a proper update... I am purposely keeping it factual so as not to temp fate...
> 
> Firstly Andre has not wee'd outside of a littler tray since Saturday morning last week so a whole week ago now...
> 
> ...


Aaaaah! That's great progress! and both looking very relaxed together! What a fab photo of these gorgeous two, hope you enjoyed your hot chocolate! Oh! and Bailey's! Time to relax


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

This is all really good news!!

Gleaning from the info I would say the cystease is doing it's stuff in terms of reducing the wees - you might find after another couple of weeks on it, he comes down to 3/4 a day. 

Are all the trays the same type? And the litter the same type? 

I think he likes to use the tray near where you are but that's still quiet enough not to be disturbed. Or he's just using the tray closest to whatever he's doing. I don't think we have a particular preference here other than downstairs rather than up. 

I think you could start with Tray 1 - and take up the puppy pad tray - he seems happy to use the other one. 
Tray 2 puppy pad I would introduce a smattering of litter to. So he still recognises it's a puppy pad. Maybe use some of the used litter out of the other tray. 
Keep Tray 3 with pad only for now. 

Enjoy that Baileys with a smile xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

"huckybuck said:


> Are all the trays the same type? And the litter the same type?


tray 2 and 3 with litter are the same (but tray 2 has the hood removed). Tray 2 and 3 with puppy pads are the same as each other but different to the ones with litter. Both tray 1s are different to each other and different to the ones in the rest of the house. They are all quite large rectangular ones apart from tray 1 which is triangular and not that large. The only one with a cover is tray 3 with litter.

They all have the wood pellets litter in them.

of course after saying he'd not used tray 2 with a puppy pad... of course he did... twice! Oh well at least it was in a tray.

Gave both my cats a bit of a shock last night... came in from giving the bunnies their evening meal... slipped on the wet floor and just at the point where I thought I'd managed to stay on my feet down I went arse over tit into a pile on the kitchen floor!  I'm all good though...

Andre woke at 5 this morning then woke Lola at about 5.39 where they decided to run around the bedroom thinking pouncing on and off the bed was a good idea  Andre is now having his post breakfast cuddle/snooze.. I don't think it will last long.

and what a miserable day it is outside... I'm hoping the bbc forecast I'd correct and it dries off later so I don't have to clean the bunnies and chickens in the rain (I will if I have to but I'd rather not).

Hope everyone has a good day

h x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well just a quick update on Andre!

It's been largely the same as the previous week. However he seems to be favouring the puppy pad trays for wees esp litter tray number 2a (hallway) the one with the spattering of litter.

We've had a range of days where his number of wees have been down to a more sensible 4-5 but also the odd day where there has been more 7 or even 8 (taking into account point 1 below)!!! I've observed some unusual behaviour:
* twice last week he did two wee's in about the space of 10 minutes or so (isolated incidences so I would say it was enough to indicate cystitis or any thing like that)
* I had to get to a second weekend to prove this - but he certainly seems to wee more when I'm home (i.e. on the weekend)
* he often goes for a wee shortly after I get home - esp at lunchtime (maybe it's because he's been asleep up to this point)

because he was doing well with the litter tray with a spattering of litter - I increased to a double spattering (still enough for the puppy pad to be obvious) - he did a poop in this tray... (it was also the same day I had fully cleaned out the normal tray nearest to this one). I just use boiling water to clean out the trays no chemicals (I don't see the need).

My thoughts are:
* start introducing litter back into tray number 3a (dining room)
* should I try a different litter? One that is finer - or stick with the normal woodpellets... (which are quite chunky).
* I obviously do not want to put him off weeing in trays...

This week has been a bit different for Andre as Lola was poorly and hiding away for much of it or she was away completely at the vets.

Have continued with cystease for Andre.

Hannah x


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Hmm I’m wondering if you should get a urine sample done (I know you have had one already but 8 in a day does seem excessive - and given Lola has bacterial infection just wondering if it could be transferred). 

As far as litter trays go is the hallway one a different style to the others? 

I would def try a softer litter for reintroducing - something like cats best or worlds best - or any natural clumper with fine grains if that makes sense. You might find he prefers the feel of this rather than pellet.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Regarding a softer litter Alfie & Ebony like the new litter from Catsan. Catsan Natural biodegradable clumping cat litter (I buy it from pets at home). It’s really soft & hardly any tracking from paws, even though Alfie is a digger.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I have some of the catscan natural biodegradable stuff so I might try

I have also thought that getting Andre's wee tested might not be a bad idea. Will approach vets, now how best to get a sample...

Hannah


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## BarneyBobCat (Feb 22, 2019)

What is the advantage of the natural biodegradable stuff over regular Catsan?


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

You can flush it if you want and obv it's more eco friendly. I think it smells much better.

Clumps well too.


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## BarneyBobCat (Feb 22, 2019)

I don't like the idea of flushing it!

I quite like the idea of trying it but Barney seems happy enough with the normal stuff, not sure its worth upsetting the apple cart


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

BarneyBobCat said:


> I don't like the idea of flushing it!
> 
> I quite like the idea of trying it but Barney seems happy enough with the normal stuff, not sure its worth upsetting the apple cart


I'm not keen on the idea of flushing either lol - terrified of it blocking the loo!!
Is the catsan clumping?


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## BarneyBobCat (Feb 22, 2019)

huckybuck said:


> I'm not keen on the idea of flushing either lol - terrified of it blocking the loo!!
> Is the catsan clumping?


It is not. You just shake the tray a couple of times a day and it absorbs all the pee. Poop gets coated in the stuff obviously. It doesn't smell to me or my wifes very sensitive nose but some people say it does. I change it every week


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

huckybuck said:


> I'm not keen on the idea of flushing either lol - terrified of it blocking the loo!!
> Is the catsan clumping?


The new natural biodegradable Catsan is a clumping litter. The normal white gainy Catsan isn't a clumping litter.
I don't flush it as I worry about blocking up the systems.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I don't fancy flushing either... I've had enough problem with the the drain from my house blocking (although due to this I know the plan of the drains well!)

H x


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

BarneyBobCat said:


> It is not. You just shake the tray a couple of times a day and it absorbs all the pee. Poop gets coated in the stuff obviously. It doesn't smell to me or my wifes very sensitive nose but some people say it does. I change it every week


Please try clumping!!! It will change your life!!! I was an anti clumper (quite happy with what I was used to) but thought I'd give it a go - I will never go back!!! It stops the need for the full change apart from every 3 months and that's with 4 big cats. No smell. 
Take the clumping challenge lol!!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

How heavy is Cats Best or Worlds Best? The only reason I ask is because we have bin bags and not wheelie bins so lot of litter can get heavy to lug about and through the house in a black sack! (or course I can put out as many sacks as I like - so far...!!)


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

How is Lola today hun? xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Soozi said:


> How is Lola today hun? xxx


She's not quite herself yet but I'm sure she's getting better.

I got her a yeowww banana (her first yeowww toy), I put it in the drawer for later but she smelt it out and was all over the table and area trying to find it so she got it last night... she wasn't letting Andre have a look in so he had to sit and watch her crazily rub and roll about with her banana! If he got too close he got a whak on the head eek:) "it's mine"... she's also enjoying a good scratch on the post and a little play - just a little mind you...

She had 85g of food in two sittings before work this morning and of course the obligatory moist stick (so close to normal - although normally she'd probably gobble more given the chance).

Not sure if cats get "hangry" but they do seem to chase more at 5.30am when it's close to feedtime...???

She went back under the bed before I left for work... but I'm not going to worry I think she just wants a bit of peace... as she was out and about yesterday lunchtime and evening...

I don't think I realised how fluffy Lola is... but with a shaved bit on each leg and a shaved bit on the her neck you really do realise!!!

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> She's not quite herself yet but I'm sure she's getting better.
> 
> I got her a yeowww banana (her first yeowww toy), I put it in the drawer for later but she smelt it out and was all over the table and area trying to find it so she got it last night... she wasn't letting Andre have a look in so he had to sit and watch her crazily rub and roll about with her banana! If he got too close he got a whak on the head eek:) "it's mine"... she's also enjoying a good scratch on the post and a little play - just a little mind you...
> 
> ...


85g is really good! She's turned the corner I feel. Hun the hiding under the bed is probably more stress about what's been happening! I think she will be fine. She might also like a bit of P&Q from Andre for a bit each day. Pleased to hear she's improving. xxx


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Willow_Warren said:


> How heavy is Cats Best or Worlds Best? The only reason I ask is because we have bin bags and not wheelie bins so lot of litter can get heavy to lug about and through the house in a black sack! (or course I can put out as many sacks as I like - so far...!!)


It's not much different to other litters really and because it's clumping you only get rid of the wees and poos each day - you hardly ever do a big change. If I'm a due a change (prob every 3 months) I stop topping it up for a little while to run it down a bit. Then I just split between 2 black bags if i think it's going to be heavy.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Lol! I run the litter down to the minimum too when a change is due! Less wasteful.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I will give it a whirl.. starting with the litter tray that currently has a puppy pad in it... slowly introducing...

Should have added it to my Fetch order... oh well... will have to place another 

Hannah x

omg I got distracted (easily done...) I _need_ these in my life... https://fetch.co.uk/meri-meri-cat-cookie-cutters-6-per-pack-321306011


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## BarneyBobCat (Feb 22, 2019)

huckybuck said:


> Please try clumping!!! It will change your life!!! I was an anti clumper (quite happy with what I was used to) but thought I'd give it a go - I will never go back!!! It stops the need for the full change apart from every 3 months and that's with 4 big cats. No smell.
> Take the clumping challenge lol!!


3 months eek! The clean freak in me might have a fit!


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

BarneyBobCat said:


> 3 months eek! The clean freak in me might have a fit!


Haven't you seen @huckybuck passion for everything spotless... If she can do it so can you. If you really want to see if you are up to her standards I believe sink, oven gloves and tea towels are of vital importance... There's probably a bigger list though.


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## BarneyBobCat (Feb 22, 2019)

lullabydream said:


> Haven't you seen @huckybuck passion for everything spotless... If she can do it so can you. If you really want to see if you are up to her standards I believe sink, oven gloves and tea towels are of vital importance... There's probably a bigger list though.


My oven gloves will let me down - I frequently spill stuff on them cooking and I have set them on fire a few times!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Just a very quick update on Andre. So since my last update Andre number of wees have settled at 4-5 per day with only the odd day at 6. We still have 5 litter trays, the ones that were introduced with the puppy pads have catsan natural litter in them, gradually building up the amount, they have about 3cm depth now. I find the clumping litter really easy 

With everything that's been going on we didn't get very far with the harness training, but he really is showing increased interest in going outside.

Him and Lola are getting on OK, things have been a bit unsettled with Lola having been poorly and I think once she was better they kind of had to re-establish boundaries. Other times they are cute, only yesterday Lola gave Andre's face a full wash, and he quite often sneaks up to give her ears a lick. He also likes to bury his head in her snuggly neck fur, this she is not so keen on 

poor quality photo due to light but look past that it's cute!









Hannah


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Very cute! Glad they get on so much better these days.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So I have ordered a cosma advent calendar... according to the description there are 3 treats per day... this will not easily divide by 2...

I’m excited as i missed getting one last year and I thought I had this year, one day on the website next day not... but there it was tonight... order placed :Shamefullyembarrased

Han x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Duplicate !


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Willow_Warren said:


> So I have ordered a cosma advent calendar... according to the description there are 3 treats per day... this will not easily divide by 2...
> 
> I'm excited as i missed getting one last year and I thought I had this year, one day on the website next day not... but there it was tonight... order placed :Shamefullyembarrased
> 
> Han x


1 treat for Lola, 1 for Andre and 1 for you, simple!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

lullabydream said:


> 1 treat for Lola, 1 for Andre and 1 for you, simple!


I was thinking that too


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

SbanR said:


> I was thinking that too


Great minds think alike!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Lol!!! If you don’t fancy sampling the extra treat yourself! One day give two to Lola the next day two for Andre!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thus far the advent calendar treats are getting shared equally! Tonight's is Andre's turn to get 2 

Also... which Kitty sent Andre the memo about climbing curtains! I was happily wrapping presents and there he was half way up the living room curtains (I think he was trying to catch a fly and had somehow invaded!).

Andre is now both taller and Lola and heavier at 3.7kg... not such a little kitty!

He really does love to wash her face and ears... although I'm not sure about when he tries to take a mouthful of her fur... perhaps he doesn't know how to wash long fur..??? She gives him a swipe around the face when she's had enough... There's bit a bit of hissing... but nothing too bad.. I've learnt to ralax a lot 

Here's a photo from yesterday taken just after the ones I put on the photo thread (Andre learning to sneak in slowly if he wants to get close to Lola).



















Hannah x


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@Willow_Warren 
Lovely photos :Cat


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

They are just so beautiful together! ❤❤xxx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

They are both beautiful kitties and I’m lucky to have them as part of my life x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Only a quick update today and no photos!

Andre has had a couple of short adventures outside... with his homemade walking jacket and lead! it took him 2 attempts and a long time hovering at the backdoor before being brave enough to go outside... on his three occasions out he's only been outside for 5-10 minutes each time (I leave the backdoor open so he can retreat without me needing to open the door). I'm not sure however if this had created a problem... so once yesterday afternoon and again at 6.30 this morning he managed to run between my legs (don't worry he was only out for a few seconds before encouraging him back in)! I'm going to have to learn to be a lot more careful around the back door now... (not really possible to set up a double door thing because of the layout of the house). Also he almost manged to tail-gate Lola out of the dual scan cat flap yesterday morning...

Otherwise things are just ticking along as normal... Andre is still on Cystease, I did try to reduce the amount but almost immediately number of wee's a day increased and he did one in the hallway! So back on it!

Lola's been a bit of an antagonist in the chasing/playing department of late... but on the plus side it's nice to see the amount of energy she has...  (just my nerves need to settle when they "play" so energetically).

Andre is almost 8 months old now... his appetite seems to have reduced a _little_... I presume this is normal as he's no longer growing at the rate he was... (I do emphasis that it's only reduced a little... he's still a greedy guts!)

Will try and get some photos of him outside this weekend 

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well just popping in here today as it’s Andre’s first birthday... 

I had a little word with him yesterday just outlining that this means he isn’t a kitten anymore... 

I was hoping to get him some new toys but other stuff had just taken over , on the plus side there’s been a few new boxes to play with. His favourite chicken for dinner I think 

H x


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Happy first birthday Andre










Enjoy your chicken xx


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Where has the time gone! "Happy 1st Birthday Andre! To be honest he'd probably much prefer a couple of boxes to anything else!! Best prezzie ever Enjoy your chicken little one! x


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Happy Birthday Andre!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Happy birthday Andre! I can't believe he will have been with you for a year soon too! That has flown!


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Have a very Happy Birthday big boy Andre!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Happy Birthday Andre


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Ok... I have just spent half an hour getting Andre in from the garden. Andre had. his first mouse (well it’s the first one I know about). He was playing with it like mad... he wouldn’t let me anywhere near him!!! I have never in my life heard so much growling... it was I incredible of i got so much as within 10 foot of him!!

I tried everything... treats... distracting with different toys... picking him up (he got wise to that rather quickly), he was like a boy possessed!!! I’ve always been relatively successful in getting prey away from my kitties but this was a whole nuther ball game!!! Even some random fireworks going off wasn’t distracting him (who knows why someone was setting off fireworks).

Eventually (really was half an hour, no exaggeration), I with a bit of help from the wand toy I got him far enough away from the mouse to pick him up (no growling) and bring him inside. All this time Lola was watching from the side lines in disbelief (disbelief of who I don’t know).

Treats were distributed, I’m in bed and I think Andre’s gone off in a strop somewhere.

On the plus side I achieved my 10k steps for the day and think it was bats I saw flying around the garden, but I also seem to have acquired a couple of insect bites for the privilege

H x


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Hope mouse escaped alive. Bats are great, if you did see them flying, they eat insects 
Time for some photo updates @Willow_Warren


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well I'm a bit distressed at the minute. Andre has been off his food since Wednesday evening, he was fine during the day but come the evening feed wasn't interested. I wasn't initially too concerned as it was a very hot humid day he's done this before but back to normal <24 hours later. but it now Sunday and he's still not eating properly... possibly worse.

Yesterday he just had one sachet of crave and a chicken thigh + various dreamies and biscuits as I was desperate (his worse day). He's still running about outside and still having purr/cuddle sessions inside (which is why i haven't talked vets yet). Weeing ok and poop was pale but not soft or diarrhoea. But he's not right... come Monday morning it will have been 4.5 days when I think we will be talking vets. It's not hot anymore (but apparently still humid), I keep hoping he'll be better soon. With the weather being as it has it's been harder to judge his activity levels

anyhow here's some photos of him from better days (trying to share ones I haven't before)





















































Hannah x


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

A whole sachet, a chicken thigh, dry food and Dreamies seems like a fair amount of food given the weather?


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## Orla (Sep 16, 2015)

Aw @Willow_Warren He is gorgeous. I hope he picks up soon. It's so difficult with the weather being like this to judge what is going on. My Smartie hasn't been eating much either, but she is always quite fussy and up and down with her food. Could he be brewing a hairball do you think? X


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Hope Andrej will soon be his normal self again!


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

My first thought was possible hairball as well, it does seem to make them feel off colour until they've got rid.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

gskinner123 said:


> A whole sachet, a chicken thigh, dry food and Dreamies seems like a fair amount of food given the weather?


I would agree but I know what he's normally like (), he's never one to ask for food (unlike Lola) but once it's offered it's eaten at 100 mph. He was suffering with the heat.

I really thought he was better Friday morning as he got on the bed at 5.30 for proper cuddles. It's so confusing.

I've considered fur ball... hunted / eaten something he shouldn't.... poison (but I would have thought he'd been sick if that was the case)... heat../ thunder/ humidity ... Toothache / mouth ulcers (do cats even get these or is it just me). argh... overthinking now 

To my knowledge he's had one furball before (4am of course), he was ok either side is it... but I guess all fur balls could be different. He's short haired but does ingest some of Lola's


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## Orla (Sep 16, 2015)

My dear Tommy was like this just before his hairball episode last year. He had had them before but without any noticeable symptoms but that time he was actively off his food for several days (and he used to wild his food down) but was ok to take treats. Eventually after a few vet trips he brought a huge hairball up while in the carrier. Unfortunately he carried on bringing them up for a few days after and I think ended up giving himself gastritis so we ended up with a course of acid suppression to break the vomit cycle. Then he was back to his normal self. I wonder if Andre has just got himself really backed up with hair too? Tommy was also short haired. Xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

@Orla that sounds a bit familiar! I just saw him by the side of the chicken coop! One call "Andre" and he came running down the garden... I found out some Christmas moist sticks (must have forgotten them in the bottom of the treat tin)... and he couldn't get to them quick enough... even stole a piece from Lola... showed him his dinner (and I've gone for posh stuff... and he's like "nah..."). I'm going to pets at home shortly (they open at 10.30) maybe I can pick up some hairball treats?? I guess they wouldn't go any harm... Lola's getting all the rejected open posh food... (she doesn't really like getting her paws wet so she's snoozing inside)

Hannah x


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Willow_Warren said:


> @Orla that sounds a bit familiar! I just saw him by the side of the chicken coop! One call "Andre" and he came running down the garden... I found out some Christmas moist sticks (must have forgotten them in the bottom of the treat tin)... and he couldn't get to them quick enough... even stole a piece from Lola... showed him his dinner (and I've gone for posh stuff... and he's like "nah..."). I'm going to pets at home shortly (they open at 10.30) maybe I can pick up some hairball treats?? I guess they wouldn't go any harm... Lola's getting all the rejected open posh food... (she doesn't really like getting her paws wet so she's snoozing inside)
> 
> Hannah x


Sam's appetite has been up and down all week, I've put it down to the extreme heat, It's still very humid. I do hope you manage to pick something up from Pets at Home that encourages him to eat. Fingers crossed x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well I got 10 tins of applaws (please don’t ask why I didn’t pick up 12 for the price of 10 ). Andre saw me unpacking the shopping from the garden so came in to check and polished off the tin of tuna with prawns. 

if anyone is interested that have a Crave half price at the minute think it was £1.99 for 4 sachets. 

they we had a cuddly play roll about in the garden.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> Well I got 10 tins of applaws (please don't ask why I didn't pick up 12 for the price of 10 ). Andre saw me unpacking the shopping from the garden so came in to check and polished off the tin of tuna with prawns.
> 
> .


You can't say something like that then not explain why you didn't!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

SbanR said:


> You can't say something like that then not explain why you didn't!


coz I'm an idiot!!!

to watch Andre over the middle part of the day you wouldn't know anything is wrong he's been happily running around the garden (although I don't condone chasing chickens... but they can hold their own). He also scoffed a whole chicken thigh for lunch (given this was just 2 hours after the applaws). He went to investigate Lola's lunch but it was Crave so he declined (which is good really as he'd really had enough).


















please ignore the pilllowcase on the line. The white blob next to it is Lola on the chicken run


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Willow_Warren said:


> coz I'm an idiot!!!
> 
> to watch Andre over the middle part of the day you wouldn't know anything is wrong he's been happily running around the garden (although I don't condone chasing chickens... but they can hold their own). He also scoffed a whole chicken thigh for lunch (given this was just 2 hours after the applaws). He went to investigate Lola's lunch but it was Crave so he declined (which is good really as he'd really had enough).
> 
> ...


That's great news So glad he has his appetite back and more by the Sounds of it!! Lol! Well done chickens for not taking any nonsense and holding their own. Gorgeous photos, hopefully it was all just down to the heat x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

He will be the death of me... if he’s well enough to run around the garden and house with a mouse he’s not getting any more special treatment from me...

at least I was only chasing him for 10 minutes this time not half a hour like last time. 

I’m afraid it was quite dark outside and I don’t know the fate of the mouse


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> He will be the death of me... if he's well enough to run around the garden and house with a mouse he's not getting any more special treatment from me...
> 
> at least I was only chasing him for 10 minutes this time not half a hour like last time.


He can't be fully recovered if you only chased him for 10 mins!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Andre’s still not interested in his normal food!! Yesterday however he put away 2.5 tins of applaws and a chicken thigh... today 1.8 tins of applaws (he left bit of mousse this evening) and 3/4 of a chicken thigh (it’s all I offered him... was going for half but he started licking the glaze off the plate so guilted me into giving him more). Typing it up it feels like a lot of good quality food!!! Greedy git!! (Love him really)


Oh and I’m afraid the mouse didn’t make it... although at least I remembered to go out into the garden to find it before Andre did


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Lovely photos 

Glad to hear he is eating normally, even if not his normal food.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Oh... no... i have 2 poorly kitties 

I thought it all started on Saturday when Andre caught a bird (looked like a small dove but hard to tell as by the time he brought it in it was held mauled). Then on Sunday I knew he wasn’t right... little bit of sick and diarrhoea. He was quiet but eating well so not too concerned (I assumed it was down to eating the bird). Lola was well (not crazy hyper like on Saturday but well)

Yesterday evening Andre didn’t want his late night supper... unusual. 

Now at about 5.40 Lola got off the bed... I assumed this was just to get up for the day but when I got up at 6.15 she wasn’t anywhere to be found. Last resort was to look under the bed... there she was (her feeling poorly defence position ). 

Andre got up but only sniffed his dinner and was sick in the living room (yellow foam
if that makes a difference), there’s about 4 little lots of diarrhoea in the litter trays. 

Lola’s had 4 dreamies and a couple do mouthfuls Of breakfast. 

I’m off to coop in a minute to buy some chicken as it will be quicker than defrosting what I’ve got in the freezer (then I need to put me face coverings in the wash as it’s my last clean one and hope they dry quickly)

thinking about the vet or whether to leave it 24 hours. 

oh I do hate it so when they aren’t themselves... it’s absolutely ages since Lola has gone under the bed like this


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

I am in a similar position this morning. (I won't detail it here but will write later). 

In terms of food, I am off to buy either chicken for boiled chicken and maybe some raw mince, two things Biggles loves and hopefully he will want later. 

Hope your duo perk up later and you don't need the vet.

xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well I bought the last pack of chicken thighs (none of the chicken and drumstick combos either) and the frozen cod was half price at £2.25. 

Lola has had a few mouthfulls of food and is out from under the bed at least. Chicken is in the oven cooking. 

will prob try and go to the pet shop in my lunch break and get some of her favourite (Andes favourite is cooked chicken)


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Summercat said:


> I am in a similar position this morning. (I won't detail it here but will write later).
> 
> In terms of food, I am off to buy either chicken for boiled chicken and maybe some raw mince, two things Biggles loves and hopefully he will want later.
> 
> ...


I hope biggles picks up soon x


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Keeping everything crossed for their appetites to improve throughout the day. Good that Lola has come out from under the bed. Hopefully it's just a 24 hour thing. I would just keep an eye on them today. Sending loads of eating vibes your way, For Biggles too @Summercat xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Andre ate his special cooked chicken and fish dinner well but sicked it all back up an hour later. I just feel so sad when they are poorly. I let him outside this afternoon so now I’m not sure If he kept down what he had this morning and lunchtime. 

I’m sure it’s just some little bug or the bird if indeed he did eat some of it but still it’s just too sad. 

H x


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

So sorry your two are poorly, it’s really awful when they are.


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Willow_Warren said:


> Andre ate his special cooked chicken and fish dinner well but sicked it all back up an hour later. I just feel so sad when they are poorly. I let him outside this afternoon so now I'm not sure If he kept down what he had this morning and lunchtime.
> 
> I'm sure it's just some little bug or the bird if indeed he did eat some of it but still it's just too sad.
> 
> H x


Oh no it's such a worry when they loose their appetite and don't seem themselves H, is Lola eating ok now? I initially thought that they could have the same bug. If he's not eating ok tomorrow, I would make an appointment to see the vet, just to be on the safe side. Fingers crossed that he's back to his old self tomorrow.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Lola not her normal self but is much improved.

yes I too think vet tomorrow if not improved

x


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Oh no poor Andre.
Hope it’s just a little upset tummy.
Hoping both he & Lola feel better real soon.
Sending healing vibes for them both
xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Sorry for harping on... but it’s just too sad for words... will be calling the vets when they open (which is in 1hr 18mins)


I’ve had a good check around and I think he kept his light supper down but his light breakfast came back to quickly (he would have eaten more but I was aiming for little and often to check it stayed down)

he’s just popped onto the bed for a cuddle... I’m sure he’s purring to comfort himself.


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Oh! Poor Andre!  Hope all goes well with the vets today x


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Poor Andre, I hope the vets are helpful. Sending healing vibes his way.
How is Lola this morning?


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Hope they'll be better soon once they've seen the vet. Xx


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@Willow_Warren 
Sorry Andre is still poorly. Hope the vets can sort him out. Biggles is doing better.
Xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Made an appointment for Andre at 10.30. Just Andre at the moment, Lola isn’t herself but not vet appointment unwell if that makes sense. I will talk about Lola when I see the vet. 
Thanks everyone


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Summercat said:


> @Willow_Warren
> Sorry Andre is still poorly. Hope the vets can sort him out. Biggles is doing better.
> Xx


glad to hear that!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Poor Andre.
Hope the vet can help. Sending get well vibes.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

He’s in with the vet now... whilst I wait outside the room.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh poor Andre, sending healing vibes immediately xx


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## Tawny75 (Sep 25, 2013)

Sending many healing vibes.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Any news on Andre?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well just a quick update. The vet couldn’t detect anything specifically wrong with him so currently he’s been given some anti sick drugs and been instructed to have a plain diet for a few days (which he was already on). If he continues to be sick into tomorrow I need to take him back for further investigation. 

I’m going for little and often with cooked chicken do we think that’s right? & I’m keeping him inside so can monitor outputs better (and mainly be sure he’s not been sick)

The vet did detect a heart murmur though . That will be looked at again when he goes for his vaccinations in about a month (due last month but they are working through a backlog)

Oh and he saw his namesake

Lola is still quiet and not got full Appetite but she’s not hiding and no actual vomiting.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

P.s. sorry for slow reply I literally have the busiest work week (I even did an extra half day at the weekend)


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Poor Andre, little and often is what I do with my girls. Your right to keep him indoors. 

Funny enough I was at the vets with one of my dogs last week, with poop issues, plus there were 5 cats all with similar symptoms to my dog and your Andre. My dog had to have poop sample done, antibiotics also ( because vet thought it was salmonella due to bird poop) total costing over £170 only to turn out to be nothing! so could well be a bug. Hope the same is for your two. Xxxx


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Hope Andre is better by tomorrow xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Just a bit of an update (I'll apologise in a a advance for being graphic)

So he seemed to be picking up especially late morning. He'd did his first poop in 24 hours and it was small dark and like more of a "mr whippy" texture rather than pale and completely liquid like it had been Monday / Tuesday am - so I was feeling quite positive. Then after his lunch he made another visit to the litter tray but this time it was tiny and liquid and he seems a bit upset and quiet afterwards.

Part of me says it's to be expected and not to worry about little setbacks and the other part says he was better only because of the meds which have now probably worn off. (Damn my brain for thinking too much).

anyhow we are continuing on a chicken only diet (I'm ditching the fish as although he's fine with it usually, he's sicked it up both times).

fingers crossed for more firm poop and no more of the upsetting runny stuff x

a photo from late morning... to me you could tell from his posture that he wasn't as uncomfortable as he has been previously (ok in this photo he was mid rolling over... but the last couple of days he's just been sitting), but generally through the morning.


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Willow_Warren said:


> Just a bit of an update (I'll apologise in a a advance for being graphic)
> 
> So he seemed to be picking up especially late morning. He'd did his first poop in 24 hours and it was small dark and like more of a "mr whippy" texture rather than pale and completely liquid like it had been Monday / Tuesday am - so I was feeling quite positive. Then after his lunch he made another visit to the litter tray but this time it was tiny and liquid and he seems a bit upset and quiet afterwards.
> 
> ...


I would just continue with the chicken little and often. At least he's managed to keep that down. That's good. I would also keep him in for now just to monitor. Hopefully his stomach will settle down very soon. Keeping Fingers crossed for normal poop with the bland diet. He does look quite comfortable in the photo. (Bless him!) Sending get well soon Andre vibes over right now. Thanks for the update x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

We do seem to have has a setback as I’ve just found his lunch on the floor , he doesn’t seem as good as this morning


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Willow_Warren said:


> We do seem to have has a setback as I've just found his lunch on the floor , he doesn't seem as good as this morning


Oh no! Poor sweetheart I would give the vet a call in the morning, if he doen't perk up later, see what they suggest. Still hoping for improvements throughout the night. Everything crossed here. X


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I went out for a couple of hours this evening (felt terrible leaving him due to him taking a turn for the worse). When I got back I was relatively pleased... (he was showing a tiny bit of interest in toys). But then he did another pea sized liquid pooh and when I went upstairs i found his dinner brought up on the carpet (it did however contain a grape sized hair ball). Not sure if I’m optimistically thinking that’s the cause (but it doesn’t explain the diarrhoea). 

He certainly has an appetite... just wish he could keep it down. 

Looks like we might be back at the vets


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Oh and yes I dissected the cat sick... he has only eaten chicken and there was something dark in amongst the white


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

2pm appointment to see vet Andre again!!


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Willow_Warren said:


> 2pm appointment to see vet Andre again!!


Good Luck at the vets this afternoon. Was hoping that getting rid of that pesky hairball
Would help matters! Fingers Crossed that Andre's namesake can find out what's going on with your little man. x


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Oh poor fellow, good luck today☘☘☘


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Willow_Warren said:


> 2pm appointment to see vet Andre again!!


Poor Andre n Hannah.
Good luck for later.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I was hoping bringing to the fur would help... he seemed a bit better in himself. But bringing up breakfast sort of out pay to that (hence the appointment). 

Continuing with little and often this morning.


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

How’s Andre doing? How did the vet visit go today?


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

She just said she thought he needed a bit more time to recover. He wasn’t sick again batter 6.30 and going to vets. He’s still quiet though (although he escaped out the front whilst I was putting the bins out... ran away from me, up the wall... only the extension roof... across the roof... and into the back garden). Where just looked at me to say “I ain’t coming in”, we danced around the garden for a bit... then he bolted up the garden and onto the shed roof as if to say “you can’t get me up here”... which is true!!


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Willow_Warren said:


> She just said she thought he needed a bit more time to recover. He wasn't sick again batter 6.30 and going to vets. He's still quiet though (although he escaped out the front whilst I was putting the bins out... ran away from me, up the wall... only the extension roof... across the roof... and into the back garden). Where just looked at me to say "I ain't coming in", we danced around the garden for a bit... then he bolted up the garden and onto the shed roof as if to say "you can't get me up here"... which is true!!


Lol! Little monkey He must be feeling a bit better with all that running around! Hope he's in now. Glad the vet doesn't think anything sinister and just needs more time. Maybe all that exercise in the garden will give him a good appetite. (Fingers crossed) for a speedy recovery x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I feel we are just ticking along, he doesn’t seem as good when the anti sickness wears off (I’m guessing it lasts about 24 hours)

Also on dissecting his last small.. soft... slightly pale poop... it seemed to contain fur (I can’t be 100% sure). Could this be it? Could this be it maybe aggravated by a virus (Lola was off colour at the same time- back to morn now though) or bird eating

I have some hairball treats but not sure I should give any time him whilst he’s on a bland diet. 

Hannah


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Excuse the fact I shouldn't have a bag and a box in my kitchen... but Andre had stood on it to get closer to the work surface whilst I was sorting breakfast. I guess when I put the bowl down it was simply the quickest route!!









he stayed in that position till the bowl was empty!


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Willow_Warren said:


> Excuse the fact I shouldn't have a bag and a box in my kitchen... but Andre had stood on it to get closer to the work surface whilst I was sorting breakfast. I guess when I put the bowl down it was simply the quickest route!!
> 
> View attachment 449687
> 
> he stayed in that position till the bowl was empty!


Clever boy! Glad to hear that he emptied his dish and that Lola is back to her old self too. x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

He does have a good appetite and in himself he’s getting back to normal (he was being fussy this morning so I got one of his toys out... thought maybe some tentative play... by no he went for full on leaping about I mean like 3ft in the air- for a while anyhow). 

but he’s still being sick  once at 4am (tiny amount but 70% fur) and again at 5.30am (small amount of liquid), think it is probably good for him to get the fur out more worried about the liquid sick. 

anyhow off to get some more chicken whilst shops should be quiet


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## Whompingwillow (Feb 21, 2018)

Willow_Warren said:


> He does have a good appetite and in himself he's getting back to normal (he was being fussy this morning so I got one of his toys out... thought maybe some tentative play... by no he went for full on leaping about I mean like 3ft in the air- for a while anyhow).
> 
> but he's still being sick  once at 4am (tiny amount but 70% fur) and again at 5.30am (small amount of liquid), think it is probably good for him to get the fur out more worried about the liquid sick.
> 
> anyhow off to get some more chicken whilst shops should be quiet


It sounds like a hairball issue?
My cat molly had a hairball issue too recently and it made her miserable for days! The day she got it up she bounced right back to normal. I now give them these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Healthy-Bi...1-0fa5-4c0f-900b-865654896618&tag=googhydr-21 
A reccomendation from @QOTN . They get ten a day and love it , sometimes I give hairball paste too, or a bit of butter
I hope he feels better soon


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Agree it could be a fur ball. Libby suffers with them and she can go right off her food, then liquid vomit for a while until the fur ball arrives.

You can buy malt paste and those threat @Whompingwillow has linked.

Hope he picks up soon! "Out damn furball out I say"


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

I kind of hope it a fur ball but I also hope he can get it out!

I have some of those treats and he’s had 4 today so far. 

bless him... him being unwell is making me feel depressed. 

Hannah x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Well someone is feeling a bit frustrated about still being on house arrest!!



















But he was sick again yesterday... although it had in it what I can only think was a feather...(Plus some more fur) it was about 3" and it didn't have the right texture to be a thread!

he's certainly feeling better in himself


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

If you read the package of those treats for fur balls, it says give 10 per day to shift a furball. 6 to prevent.

He does look a bit miffed  glad he is more himself x


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

So today is Andre’s birthday... he is a big 2 years old.... 

but I have to get up and go to work... so the celebrations will have to wait (maybe until tomorrow, what’s a day between friends right... )


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## Willsee (Nov 7, 2020)

Happy birthday Andre, looks like you’re going to have a fab birthday weekend


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Happy Birthday beautiful Andre,glad you're feeling brighter. You can have a party with Lola while Mum's at work


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Happy Birthday Andre.
You can start the party going with Lola until mum comes home


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Ooooh Andre! Two years old already? How did that happen. Hope you've had a fun day with Lola...and when your Mum tells you tomorrow it's your birthday, just humour her  You know the truth...hehehe. 

Happy Birthday, you handsome little dude


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

“Happy Birthday Gorgeous Andre” hope your enjoying your special day. x


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## Nicola234 (Nov 10, 2020)

Happy birthday Andre x


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

2 years!!!!!

Happy Birthday Gorgeous Boy!!


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Happy birthday!
Hope you had a great day!


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Thank you for my birthday wishes... I had a party whilst mummy was at work yesterday like you all suggested but she seemed less than impressed at the state of the house when she got home... she had to get the big sucky machine out... I even left her a couple of presents... but that didn’t seem to stem her mood...


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