# I'm sorry this is a long post but I am upset and distressed by a police visit last night..



## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

I'm sorry this is a long post but I am upset and distressed by a police visit last night..

We live next door to a rented property. In Autumn '13 new neighbours moved in. From the start we were not happy about the way they treated their pets. The dogs whinged and cried all the time. we couldn't understand why. Steve went on the roof and couldn't believe what he saw. 2 alsatians in a small enclosure that was so covered in dog poo that they couldn't lay down. 
He told me and I couldn't believe it so he went back on the roof and took a picture of the enclosure. The cats, Tom and Pixie, were left outside permanently with no shelter. When it rained during the night we were often woken up by Pixie crying to be let in. The neighbours ignored her. In Nov '15, as winter approached, we started to worry that the cats would have to spend another winter living outside with no shelter. So we made them a waterproof heated shelter on our patio. It was pretty basic but it was very warm. Within 24 hours it was occupied by both cats. Pixie practically lived in it 24/7. As she didn't seem to be going home at all we fed her. This carried on until the middle of Jan '15. The neighbours didn't seem to notice - or care - that their cats were living with us. On 27.1.15 we wrote them a note telling them about the shelter and asking them what to do. They totally ignored it. So we carried on as before. In spring we dismantled the cat shelter. From that point on we didn't see much of Tom but Pixie stayed around. We park at the rear of our property and almost every time we got home she ran to greet us. She would always emerge from under our old derelict trailer that we use as a storage shed. The chassis has collapsed so the trailer body is very close to the ground. We realised that it was her new shelter. We felt so sorry for her that we carried on feeding her. Every chance she got she sneaked into our house. In warm weather we always leave a window open when we are home. Every morning we found her sleeping in our spare bedroom on a pile of ironing. Grrr! Fur everywhere. We bought her a cat bed. Over the next few months she grew bolder. One day we came home and found her asleep on the sofa, she had learnt to use the cat flap. We knew she had chosen to live with us. 

We soon realised why Pixie had been living outside. She is extremely nervous and her old home is very 'lively' - two parents, three girls and two dogs. We don't need to say more.The father works away during the week and the mother is a registered childminder and Reiki practitioner. They lead such busy lives that they may have not have even registered that she'd left home. As far as we knew they made no effort to find out what had happened to her. At the end of Oct '15 they moved without warning. They abandoned her. She was ours. What else were we to think? 

On 13.2.16, four months after they had moved, a missing poster about Pixie was put through our letter box. Apparently the woman living at No31 was the neighbours friend and had seen Pixie. We investigated the situation and found out that we hadn't a leg to stand on - Pixie is the neighbours property and they want her back. We knew we had to let them know where she was but we thought, if we wrote a letter explaining why Pixie moved in with us, they would be compassionate and let us adopt her. How naive were we? The morning they got the letter they sent round a female 'cat rescuer' with instructions to force her return. They hadn't shown our letter to the to woman and she wasn't interested in our side of the story. She accused us of stealing Pixie and threatened us with the police and the RSPCA. We were really worried and contacted the police to explain the situation and ask their advice. We didn't want to be accused of theft. The detective constable we spoke to assured us that this wouldn't happen - that it would remain a civil matter between us and the owners. 

We can't understand why they want her back. She must have been a most unsatisfying pet for them. They hardly had any interaction with her. To be honest their complete indifference of her welfare and whereabouts made us think that they would be glad to get rid of her. Now we are afraid that she will be taken from us. We know it would be wrong to send her back to live with her owners. They say that they love her but their actions speak louder than words. Most caring cat owners would be very worried if their cat seemed happier to live outside than in the house. They appeared utterly unconcerned about it. In the two years they lived next door we never heard them call her or try to entice her into the house. Why should she be forced to return to a home where she was so neglected? In order for her to be able to live a happy life we think that she needs a calm home with caring owners. She is frightned of anything and everything. Since she's lived with us we've been working hard to reduce her anxiety but she is still reacts badly to any new stimuli. When she gets stressed she throws up. Visitors or strangers send her into complete panic mode. 

Last night we were visited by the police. They were really aggressive. They banged on the front door and, when we didn't answer, went round the back, leapt over the 6 foot gate and banged on our back door. They didn't need to act like that. We have a permanent note on our front door with Steve's mobile number for delivery men. We were really worried that it was Pixie's owners. Our back door is glass so we could see that it was the police so we let them in. They told us that we had stolen Pixie and, if we didn't give her to them, they would charge Steve with theft and arrest him. They wouldn't listen to our side of the story. We couldn't give Pixie to them as she was so frightened by their tactics that she had fled. They told us that we had until Saturday to return her to her owners or they would put Steve into jail. The really strange thing was that they had no pet carrier for Pixie. One of them had to go to Pixie's owners to pick one up and leave it with us. We asked what they would have done if we hadn't let them in. The officer who had climbed over our back gate and banged on our back door told us that he had seen Pixie on her cat tree. If we hadn't let them in they would have broken down our door. But we could have owned a cat that looked like Pixie!!! Do we live in a police state? Surely they can't do that? We haven't seen Pixie since. She was unhappy because we have builders in this week and we're afraid that the extra stress of the police visit has sent her over the top. If we can't return her they are going to arrest Steve. 

If she is returned she will end up as a neglected cat living outdoors again. For the past 7 months she has been a pampered pet and the shock will be tremendous. The only being who really knows what Pixie wants and needs is Pixie herself. But UK law denies her any rights - she is considered. Just recently France has passed a law stating that pets are no longer considered property but are 'living and feeling beings'. Why is the UK left in the 'dark ages'?

I'm so upset that I had to tell some one about the situation.

I have to go as I can't see the keyboard because I'm crying.

Wish us luck.


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## Irimina (Apr 13, 2016)

Poor Pixie!  It's so sad. Legally she belongs to them indeed, yes. But the circumstances are so unjust.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I can't believe this situation and the circumstances are very strange. Are you absolutely sure those people were real policemen? I would contact your local police to check if this is correct and, if so, go and put your side of the story. Usually this sort of thing ends up in the civil courts and I think you need to get some legal advice NOW from Citizens Advice or a solicitor. Surely if you can prove the owners left her behind for four months and abandoned her, plus you have proof (hope you have a copy of your letter) showing you contacted them, you would have some redress. Are there neighbours who could corroborate your side of things?


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Personally, I'd firstly check that they are legit police. And then if they are, I'd report them for the way they behaved. Did they have a warrant with them?


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Cross posted with Charity. My first thought was that that isn't how the police behave over a missing cat.


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

Are you sure they were police? Could have been the old owners mates. I mean, they could have been imposters? Did they have the correct ID? 
It sounds a very odd way for the police to react, that's all, and to come unprepared (without a cat basket) seems weird.
The threats to arrests seem extreme especially as you were initially told it was a civil matter. 
Have you got the name of the officer you spoke to when you phoned? And have you got the names of the officers who visited? Worth checking it out


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

Crossed post here too! But you can obviously see what we are all thinking. Don't panic until you can prove that this is a genuine police matter x


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## cava14 una (Oct 21, 2008)

Find it hard to believe Police would act like that to get a cat back. I would be contacting local station and as has been said above if they were report them. Sounds more like a drugs raid than getting a cat back!!!

So sorry you are having grief over being kind to Pixie

Just thought more about this. It was scary enough for you but just say an elderly person had been in the houseand God forbid alone Doesn't bear thinking about


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

Neighbour other side is friend of owner. We have been to see her but she refuses to believe us. She said '' I don't think you can be cruel to cats''.

The detective we spoke to is off work until Friday.

The only thing we can think of doing is contacting RSPCA. If her owners carry on treating her the same they 
would be breaking the Animal Welfare Act 2006. Couldn't the RSPCA act to prevent for once? Only problem is we need to
speak to some one in authority and I doubt we'll get through to them. 

Thanks for your support.


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## cava14 una (Oct 21, 2008)

Charks said:


> Neighbour other side is friend of owner. We have been to see her but she refuses to believe us. She said '' I don't think you can be cruel to cats''..


Find that totally unbelievable!! Not that you are making it up but that someone could think that


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

I agree with the other posters - check with your local police force direct. Either they are imposters or they are bullies who are going way beyond their legal remit because they are enjoying a power trip. Sadly, some people in the police force can be very corrupt and they don't follow the rules. (I had experience as a 12 year old child of being taken into a room at a police station by two policemen and threatened with being put in prison and never seeing my parents again if I didn't give them the answers they wanted) If your original contact is away, I would try to speak to someone higher up. 

The idea of contacting the RSPCA is also good. Failing anything else, consult a solicitor or maybe contact your local paper. Even if it is right for the cat to be returned, the way it has been handled is totally out of order.

I can't imagine how stressed you must be by this. I hope it is resolved soon. Please let us know how you get on.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

cava14 una said:


> Find it hard to believe Police would act like that to get a cat back. I would be contacting local station and as has been said above if they were report them. Sounds more like a drugs raid than getting a cat back!!!


And they need warrants for them


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

I too would check if they were legitimate police officers. Also check your household or car insurance for legal cover. Some include legal cover that you can phone to get advice about all sorts of legal issues for free.

Also gather together copies of and make notes of all correspondence and what you have done and when.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I doubt the RSPCA can do anything without evidence of neglect or cruelty though, under the circumstances, I would contact them about the fact the cat has been abandoned for four months and the owners have made no attempt until now to get the cat back knowing pretty well where it would be. See what they say.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Another vote for checking they are real police as well - sounds very suspicious. If they are genuine, definitely make a complaint about their behaviour - threatening to send people to jail over a missing cat and all the rest of the menacing actions are unacceptable.

Also, you say they moved and left her behind? No attempt to find her before they moved or at any other point? Sounds like they abandoned her to me, especially as you told them in writing she had been sheltering on your property. Asking you would have been the logical thing to do s you'd told them she was spending a lot of time on your property - but they didn't. They could have come round at any time and asked you to stop feeding her and ignore her - but they didn't. So when they moved and left her behind, why would you not think she was abandoned?

Do you still have pictures of the appalling conditions they kept their dogs in? Might be worth making some copies and furnishing them as evidence of how well they have 'cared' for previous animals. You might want to have a video camera and witnesses on standby in case of return visits. Either way, I think you need some legal advice on this one, paricularly as the welfare of the animal is in question.

*hugs*


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## Shrike (Jun 25, 2015)

Impersonating police officers is a serious offence. If they are fake the real police will be interested. 
Is the cat chipped? If not then how can they prove its theirs?


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Now is not the time to hide away, or to be made to feel guilty.
I agree that you yourself should contact the Police and make a complaint about the behaviour of these 'Officers' and I do also think you should contact the RSPCA as they can at least offer support and advice.
Isn't abandonment of an animal an offense of some sort?


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

Please contact your local police straightaway and keep us up to date on here x


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

Police shouldn't really behave like this- nothing adds up, really. I'm quite sure they are supposed to call in someone like the RSPCA who are trained to handle animals. Please go to your local station and find if they have been to your house, really. If they have, tell them your side of the story. The whole story stinks of cat poo, really.

I'm not very good with the law and stuff, but had OH just took a look at this post and said NOBODY would come out at night like this for a simple matter such as a cat- if the police were involved, they would have directed the (presumably) 999 caller to someone like the RSPCA and get them involved.

*Try not to get distressed, it looks like a few thugs have come around to threaten you, entered your property without your consent and you most certainly can report this to the police and they are liable to investigate it. *

If Pixie is chipped, you really cannot do anything, I'm afraid. Please take her to the vets ASAP to confirm if she is chipped. If she is not, they don't have much of a case. If she is chipped, you can get the RSPCA involved and show them evidence of cruelty.

*PLEASE GO TO THE POLICE NOW. YOU'VE HAD PEOPLE INTIMIDATING YOU ON YOUR PROPERTY. THAT IS A VERY SERIOUS OFFENCE. 
*
PS: I don't normally post in bold and capitals, but I cannot stress these bits enough.

Also rolling my eyes at the fact that your ex- neighbour is a childminder and a reiki practitioner. I wouldn't even trust her if she is capable of this much malice.

EDIT: I'm disgusted and foaming a little at the mouth. Ugh. 
*

*


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

What a horrible situation you are in @Charks 

Cats are regarded in law as the 'property' of their owner. A cat that is lost or has strayed is generally regarded as the property of the original owner. It is therefore necessary if one takes in a stray cat to make all reasonable efforts to locate the original owner. (which in your case you did)

Failure to return a cat to its owner when asked to do so could be treated as a offence under the Theft Act 1968. Although theft is a criminal offence I cannot imagine genuine police acting in the threatening way way those men did, over a missing cat. Also, as has been stated they have no right of entry to your home without a warrant [from the court].

Your best chance is to try and prove the original owners abandoned the cat when they moved away. Hopefully you still have a copy of the letter you sent the owners when they were failing to look after Pixie and she had moved in with you.

How long after you had made the owners aware Pixie had moved in with you did they move away?
Did they make any attempt to ask for her back before they moved?
How long after they moved did you get a Missing Poster through your door?
If they knew you had Pixie why do you suppose they failed to knock on your door and ask for her, instead of putting a poster through your door? Had you by any chance told them at anytime she was no longer with you and you did not know where she was?

It would be difficult to prove Pixie was being neglected by the owners 'after the fact'. Do you have any records of vet treatment she had to have when she was with you? Or photographs of her when she was underweight and in poor condition?

I think if you ask the RSPCA for advice they are likely to advise you to hand Pixie back to her original owners.


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## Tezwik (Apr 6, 2016)

Surely if they were 'real' police they would have come prepared with the appropriate stuff to contain the cat and take her also they would have been accompanied with animal welfare officers so they had the right people to check the cat over and the right information about the rights of the cats ownership.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Tezwik said:


> Surely if they were 'real' police they would have come prepared with the appropriate stuff to contain the cat and take her also they would have been accompanied with animal welfare officers so they had the right people to check the cat over and the right information about the rights of the cats ownership.


Yes, the police would usually attend with an RSPCA officer in such a situation.


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## TallulahCat (Dec 31, 2015)

I would definitely speak to the police to find out whether these were real police officers, and it would be interesting to find out who the "cat rescuer" was too, as I doubt anyone other than the RSPCA would intervene in a situation like this (probably not even them tbh). The police need a warrant to break into your house. I seriously doubt they would be able to get one in this situation. 

If they were the police then you have grounds for a serious complaint. The people must have made them think you were violent or something for them to behave like that. It is all really bizarre. 

If these people were not the police then you have been threatened and the police should be able to help you get some security installed - CCTV cameras at the very least, and ideally a panic button. 

How do they propose you return the cat? Clearly there should be no direct contact between you and your former neighbours. They should be making arrangements to collect Pixie if they are the real police. 

Unfortunately I think you have to return Pixie to them as it will be impossible for you to prove they will neglect her in the future.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

Hi there,

Yes she's chipped but we knew that from the beginning.

We haven't bothered with the RSPCA as we have already been in contact and they don't want to know.

I asked to see the police warrant and they told me they didn't need one.

We know we don't have much chance of keeping Pixie. 

As we stated in our post we hoped to appeal to her old owners compassion.

But they have none.

Strange as the women is a Reiki practioner and that is one of main principles of Reiki.

As Pixie is an extremely nervous cat her chances of having a happy life are slim. 

She will be too stressed to live in their house so will become a neglected outside cat again. 

They have acknowledged that she is 'skittish' but are adament that she loves living outside.

It's strange 'cos she is a 'chocolate box' white long haired cat and you don't see many of them living rough.

We were going to get a cat behavourist report on her to back up our claims and send them case studies
of cats who have left home of their own accord. But it would be a waste of time now.

We are sure that the police officers are members of the Northamptonshire police but we
question their motives. We think they must be friends of the owners.

We have complained to the police but we expect to get nowhere. The are famous for backing up their own men.

On my brothers advice we have contacted the local paper to see if they are interested 
in the story. They are checking with the police and may run the story.

All we can do now is wait. 

Many thanks for all your help and good wishes.

Charlotte


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## Shrike (Jun 25, 2015)

I think you need some proper legal advice over this - Citizens Advice or solicitors. I find it hard to believe the police don't need a warrant for entry to your property. You need to record any further interactions and you should take down the police id numbers.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Sorry you are having this nightmare...I do not believe TWO police officers would turn up for something like a cat; in fact I heard very recently that they don't come out now if you are burgled. Aren't they supposed to be very busy? Short-staffed? Did you get their numbers? Did the neighbours take the other cat with them do you know?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

That was my thought too...they were trespassing surely. Also, if the "owners" moved out and left her, that in itself is an offence I believe under the AWA (2006) as it is an offence (as far as I know) to abandon a protected species which is what a domesticated cat is. Maybe report to the RSPCA that the cat has been abandoned. And as far as I know, in a case like this, the cat has to be "seized" by the police and handed to the RSPCA to be kept. This is why police and RSPCA come together. You say the "police" went to the owners for the carrier...have they moved to somewhere very local then? What a nasty story. Poor you.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Do they maybe have a relative who is in the police who has got a bit too up themselves?


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Shrike said:


> I think you need some proper legal advice over this - Citizens Advice or solicitors. I find it hard to believe the police don't need a warrant for entry to your property. You need to record any further interactions and you should take down the police id numbers.


I agree, legal advice is needed - it sounds like the officers seriously overstepped their mark, but they may say you willingly let them inor that as they could see the cat they didn't need a warrant. I would definitely video any future visits, preferably with witnesses present.

From the CAB website: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/l...ystem/police/police-powers/#h-powers-of-entry

*Powers of entry*
*When can the police enter and search*
Police can only enter premises without a warrant if a serious or dangerous incident has taken place.

Situations in which the police can enter premises without a warrant include when they want to:


deal with a breach of the peace or prevent it
enforce an arrest warrant
arrest a person in connection with certain offences
recapture someone who has escaped from custody
save life or prevent serious damage to property.
Apart from when they are preventing serious injury to life or property, the police must have reasonable grounds for believing that the person they are looking for is on the premises.

If the police do arrest you, they can also enter and search any premises where you were during or immediately before the arrest. They can search only for evidence relating to the offence for which you have been arrested or to some other offence which is connected with or similar to that offence, and they must have reasonable grounds for believing there is evidence there. They can also search any premises occupied by someone who is under arrest for certain serious offences. Again, the police officer who carries out the search must have reasonable grounds for suspecting that there is evidence on the premises relating to the offence or a similar offence.

In other circumstances, the police must have a search warrant before they can enter the premises. They should enter property at a reasonable hour unless this would frustrate their search. When the occupier is present, the police must ask for permission to search the property - again, unless it would frustrate the search to do this.

When they are carrying out a search police officers must:


identify themselves and - if they are not in uniform - show their warrant card, and
explain why they want to search, the rights of the occupier and whether the search is made with a search warrant or not.
If the police have a warrant, they can force entry if:


the occupier has refused entry, or
it is impossible to communicate with the occupier, or
the occupier is absent, or
the premises are unoccupied, or
they have reasonable grounds for believing that if they do not force entry it would hinder the search, or someone would be placed in danger.


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## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

There is something highly suspicious about the behaviour of these so called police. As has been stated above, the police should have provided evidence of their credentials including their warrant cards and numbers. They cannot enter your property without a warrant to attempt to recover stolen property. 

I would DEFINITELY speak to a solicitor about this. At the very least you have very strong grounds for a complaint of intimidation against those particular officers. I would also speak to the RSPCA. Tell them about the mistreatment of all animals and ask them to investigate that and the case for abandonment. 

Basically you need to make yourself the most MASSIVE pain in the arse that you can. 

Honestly, go to the local press and make this the biggest human interest story possible - the combo of cute cat, nasty owners and police brutality is almost sure to get it covered. Get photos of you looking bereft hugging the cat. Lastly, if all else fails agree to hand over the cat provided they are willing to to recompense you for the expense of caring for the cat in their absence and write up a detailed itemised bill for every single expense. 

The law regarding pet ownership is regrettably on their side so you need to 'encourage' them to to relinquish their claim 

Good luck


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

If they're not embarrassed to let everyone see this photo of the dog enclosure I don't
think anything will get them to relinquish their claim.


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## MissBettyPage (Mar 12, 2016)

it's so devastating that people like that are allowed to own animals! i hope this is resolved in the best way possible and that's Pixie stays with you! 

were the RSPCA nt interested n the condition of the other animals? it's so angering how cats aren't given the same rights as dogs!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

For them to say they would break the door down under certain circumstances sounds totally deranged...and if no-one answered the front door, what on earth gave them the right to go round the back and climb over the fence. You could have been in the bath, ill in bed, anything. There is something wrong, sure of that. To say if the cat isn't back by Saturday your husband would be jailed...that really does sound crazy! They really don't sound like real police. To wait four months before they do anything about getting her back is quite shocking...who did they think was feeding Pixie? She probably hates her home because it's full of kids all the time.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I agree with the others. Stand your ground and try to find out if the 'police' are genuine. Nothing adds up here tbh


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

Oh my god, the dog enclosure looks disgusting. What reiki has this woman been taught and what does she practice- who are her clients? Words fail me. 

If those people were police, they are nothing but thugs. THUGS. People who get things done by coercion and intimidation- not reason. In this regard, please get legal advice and some security equipment set up. The rate at which they are going, ugh!

I'm all for going ahead with a story in the local paper. Try and get the story run in other locals top- preferably where they live now. Put the picture of the dog enclosure along with your article. Start sharing this on social media such as twitter and facebook- basically just get all your friends and well wishers to back you up and share, share and share. Use the strongest language possible, but do not threaten them yourself- that would just backfire.

I'm completely disgusted. Maybe one of the kids threw a tantrum for the cat and they must have then remembered!


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

I wonder if they have decided she is worth selling and that is why they want her back?


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## bluecordelia (Jan 5, 2014)

Were the police in uniform? Get the numbers on the sleeves. If plain clothes I would ask to see warrant cards.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

So we've had a reply from the police.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Charks said:


> So we've had a reply from the police.


and......


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

So we have a reply.

We are completely in the wrong.

We have stolen a cat.

We will be prosecuted. 

We are criminals.


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## bluecordelia (Jan 5, 2014)

I really don't think the CPS would progress this. The police present evidence to them and it's them who make the call.


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

Get legal advise now. ASAP- just to put your mind at ease and to prepare you for any eventuality. 
From what you have said here, you might just have a case- even though unfortunately you are in the wrong. 

As I asked earlier, is she chipped? If she isn't, they're going to have a tough time proving Pixie is theirs.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Charks said:


> If they're not embarrassed to let everyone see this photo of the dog enclosure I don't
> think anything will get them to relinquish their claim.


What a pity you didn't report them at the time to your local Council on the grounds of 'nuisance' (the bad smell and the health hazard). The Council would definitely have followed it up.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Like Paddypaws I too am wondering if these people want the cat back to sell her, seeing as she is a long haired white cat.

I think you are now going to have to really push the fact you believed the cat to have been abandoned when the owners moved away without her. This is a reasonable argument if as you say they took 4 months to decide to come back for her. It is clear cut argument, against which the owners have no defence, and you are within the law to take in a cat you believed to have been abandoned. This is the spin you need to put on the case, as you cannot be prosecuted for taking in a cat you thought to be abandoned.

I would forget about the fact they neglected her when they had her, as you will never prove it now, and they will just say you lured the cat away from her home by feeding her.

Get some legal advice a.s.a.p.

Get support on Facebook etc for your actions in taking the cat in when the owners moved away and abandoned her.

I think the police who came to your house were probably friends of the couple, maybe they even suggested the idea to them of getting the cat back.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Charks said:


> So we have a reply.
> 
> We are completely in the wrong.
> 
> ...


OK, deep breaths. Obviously, you need to get some legal advice.. But I very much doubt the CPS will bother with it.

You need to make a big thing about the owners moving out and leaving her behind to live under a trailer, and you took her in as seemingly abandoned.

If they persist, it might be worth contacting your local councillors or even your MP and explain you are being persecuted for taking in a cat which appeared to have been thrown out and abandoned during a house move.

Who was it in the police you spoke to? Not the same people who came round, or friends of theirs?

*hugs*


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## MissBettyPage (Mar 12, 2016)

massive hugs from everyone in the madhouse here. you must be devastated for Pixie and yourselves!
would agree also that it's unlikely CPS will take on the case. im not a big FB fan but as others suggested a FB campaign may help its worth trying anything you can.and definitely go ahead with a complaint to the police! whilst yes legally cats are considered property they should not be allowed to get away with the behavior you've told us about.also like everyone here the're behavior is just plain hinkey to me. so if they're definitely police i would put money that they friends of your neighbors or at the very least have some kind of prior relationship! 

It's about time cats are given the same protection as dogs!


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

Haven't a clue how to start a facebook campaign.


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

This is very odd news. Please go and get some legal advice.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

The cat moved in with you; it's almost impossible to ''steal'' a cat unless you lock it in 24/7. Pixie could go home any time she wanted, which she didn't.

We have a lovely black cat at the stables, appeared one day, clearly not a stray but appeared every day; except when the snow was knee-high and he went home. I put a note on his collar for him to take home to say if they were missing this lovely cat, this was where he was and that he was a very popular visitor, killed huge rats (and ate them with gusto). I quickly received another note back (it was like having a carrier pigeon), clearly not too happy, saying they loved him,he had a good home and they wanted him. They gave their phone number and I rang and said he had practically moved in with us, we hadn't kidnapped him, he was not locked in but if the weather was cold he slept in the barn on the hay. He lived about half a mile away and had quite a long hike to get to us. Often he slept in the hen hut. For a while we didn't see him, I guess they tried to lock him in, but then he reappeared. I rang to tell them he was at the yard and asked if I should take him back home; they eventually had to admit defeat. Apparently they decided, unwisely, to get him a friend, a kitten, in case he was leaving home because he was lonely (Ha!, no he hated the kitten and was more determined than ever not to go home). The people Charlotte is dealing with sound totally unreasonable. Jack's owners were put out, but were sensible enough to say "If he's happy at the stables, that's the most important thing...but whenever he wants to drop by, we will be more than happy to see him. Cats choose their homes and owners''.
@Charks: I don't do FB either, but almost anyone will be able to show you how to do it.
And agree with @MissBettyPage and @Jesthar that CPS only take on a case with a realistic possibility of winning (allegedly). Also, they have two criteria: A) the evidential test, ie is there enough evidence to proceed? No, there isn't, and B) the public interest test, ie is it in the interest of the public to proceed? No again, why would it be in the public interest that a cat moved into a neighbour's home...happens all the time.

I'm just a bit surprised that anyone would take four months to make the effort to look for a cat.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Charks said:


> So we have a reply.
> 
> We are completely in the wrong.
> 
> ...


This is becoming less believable by the second.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

***_This is becoming less believable by the second_***. It most certainly is; I never read the like...who would have thought that the poor over-work under-staffed police would have the time and resources to hound and threaten someone simply because a neighbour's cat had moved in with them? All I can say is that there must be very little crime in Northamptonshire. Should be a good place to live... talk about picking the easy victims!!


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

I am so mad.

We complained to the police about the way we were treated.

We sent this email.

On the 13th April 2016 at 8 pm we were sitting watching TV. Suddenly we heard a violent knocking on front door. It scared us. We immediately thought that it was the cat's owners who were going to beat us up. We were frightened to open front door. Who else could it be. We knew it couldn't be the police because, when I spoke to DC720 Richards on the 2.4.16, she told I was doing nothing wrong.
The cat owners would have a hard job to prove theft because we had been totally up front with them and kept them appraised of what we were doing. She took my contact details and gave me a police ref 322 2.4.16. She assured me that any police officer thinking of taking action against me would see this ref and would see the contact details. They would ring me and arrange a meeting. After all it was only a civil case, a disagreement between neighbours about a cat.

The knocking increased in volume and carried on for at least 5 minutes. We knew it couldn't be anyone
nice as there is a post it note on front door with Steve's mobile number on for delivery men to contact us. Any decent caller would try and ring us. Then, to our horror, we heard knocking on our conservatory door. Someone had leapt over our 6 foot gate at the bottom of the garden and was outside in our garden. We now had people hammering at front and back of our house. We were just about to dial 999 when we were relieved to see, through the conservatory glass door, that it was the police. Our relief was short lived. PC 447 didn't waste any time on a discussion of the situation. He made sure that he thoroughly intimidated us by informing Steve that he had stolen a cat and we'd better hand it over or he would arrest Steve. We were bewildered and distressed. What had happened to the friendly discussion DC720 had promised us? dsbEh, Unfortunately, due to their dramatic entrance, the cat had legged it. We so their visit was wasted. We couldn't understand why we had been invaded by two hostile police officers. We asked them why they hadn't read DC720 notes on the case. They had no idea what we were referring to. PC 447 waved a wodge of paper at us and told us he had enough evidence to arrest Steve for cat theft. 
Being naive we thought that a warrant was necessary but PC447 told us we wrong. He obviously thought that we were stupid because he kept telling us that we had stolen a cat and that if we didn't return it to the owners he would charge Steve with theft. We must be stupid because we thought he was telling us that if any stolen item was returned the police would not bother with pressing charges. So if Charlotte wanted a diamond necklace to wear to a special event we could steal it and, as long as we returned it within a short time, everything would be OK. After all a diamond necklace and a cat are both property.

PC447 gave us an ultimation. He was on leave until 7 am Saturday. If we hadn't returned the cat to her rightful owners by then he would get a warrant and arrest me. Why would he need a warrant on Saturday but not now? He said he would leave a cat basket with us so we could return the cat then realized that he didn't have a basket. We told him we had one but he insisted on driving to the cats owners to pick up a basket. How did he think he was going to transport a nervous cat without a basket. Obviously he's a very brave man. It took over 20 minutes. While we waited for his return we tried to talk to the other officer PS768. We asked him what would happen if we hadn't let them in. He told us that as he had seen the stolen property ( i.e. cat ) in our conservatory he had the right to break down our door and recover it. We were stunned. What if we had owned a similar cat?

We cannot believe that we have been treated like this. We thought that police resources were at a premium. Why are 2 police officers needed to threaten a middle aged couple who are only guilty of trying to help a cat in distress?

Sergeant Darnell phoned Steve last night at 10pm. No apology and he backed his men's action. He said that because we didn't answer the door his police were justified to act like they did.

We feel so impotent.

We are going to contact a solicitor.

We are worried because the CPS do prosecute cat theft.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wife-s-beloved-cat-Marmalade-never-found.html


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Charks, you say 'all we can do is wait' but that is so not true. If you want to have any chance of keeping this cat, slim as it seems, plus the threats against you by so called police, you need to arm yourself with information and be prepared to fight your corner. Take the advice given and go and get legal advice from the CAB asap or you can sometimes get half an hour's free advice from certain solicitors. Go to the police and, if those were real police, which I doubt, put in a complaint about their behaviour. Write down everything you remember about the whole incident. If the police were bogus, you should be able to complain to the real police you were harassed or bullied and they may speak to the ex-neighbours. If anyone else comes to your house about this, don't let them in unless they can prove they are who they say they are. If Pixie has returned home after this debacle, you might want to keep her indoors or even consider putting her in a cattery for a while in case, if she is outside, someone just kidnaps her. I would be doing everything in my power to fight this, even if I failed in the end.

Sorry Charks, our messages overlapped. This gets madder by the moment. I can't believe police would behave like this over an animal (dangerous dog perhaps). I repeat, get legal advice now.


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## AmsMam (Nov 25, 2014)

I think legal advice is a must. I would also suggest you think about what information you're putting on the internet and make very sure it can't be used against you - this board is public and indexed in search engines (not sure everyone realises this).


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

Get legal advice NOW! And don't assume that because they are behaving appallingly, they can't be real police. There are some very, very rotten apples in the barrel - corruption in the police force needs fighting if it isn't to spread.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Charks: how can you be accused of ''stealing'' Pixie...you wrote to her owners and told them she was visiting you and you got no response. it's not as if they have CCTV of you or Steve climbing the fence in a balaclava and taking her. I live in west London and there is someone going round in a car and catching them (have had emails from local charity about it) ...police not interested. This lot have seen you as a n easy victim, you are unlikely to be violent or armed.


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## Dobby65 (Aug 7, 2014)

Just a thought... are you a member of Which? Even if you're not you can sign up for a £1 trial - this includes full legal advice and cover. Might be worth looking into.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/missing-marmies-mum-says-miracles-27187/
The good news is that she got this cat back, but he was 35 miles away!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Dobby65 said:


> Just a thought... are you a member of Which? Even if you're not you can sign up for a £1 trial - this includes full legal advice and cover. Might be worth looking into.


That is certainly very useful to know.


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## MissBettyPage (Mar 12, 2016)

definitely get home legal advice hun.

You are entitled to complain to an impartial complaints "entity" its called "the Independent Police Complaints Commission" (IPCC) https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/complaints so please please don't just go with what the sarge has said. that's why there is the IPCC so that it's impartial! don't drop the complaint as their behavior is outrageous! the complaint will at first go to the police force the cops belong to but will be above the person you have emailed. if you're not satisfied etc IPCC will intervene

i've asked a cop (a good one) i know for some advice but i don't know whether he'll reply or not, depends which shift he's on!

i hope this helps!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

What worries me now is that if she is returned to the owners in their new house and she is let out into an area with which she is not familiar, she will likely get lost trying to get back to Charks where she was happy and had a quiet life.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

MissBettyPage said:


> definitely get home legal advice hun.
> 
> You are entitled to complain to an impartial complaints "entity" its called "the Independent Police Complaints Commission" (IPCC) https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/complaints so please please don't just go with what the sarge has said. that's why there is the IPCC so that it's impartial! don't drop the complaint as their behavior is outrageous! the complaint will at first go to the police force the cops belong to but will be above the person you have emailed. if you're not satisfied etc IPCC will intervene
> 
> ...


Definitely take the complaint higher - it's highly likely the local man will back his men and will try and scare you off making either a fuss or a formal complaint as he knows he and they would get a roasting.

I'd start contacting local councillors and even your MP too - say you took in a cat that was abandoned by your neighbours when they moved, and suddeny four months later you had two Police officers turn up, practically force entry and then demand the cat back there and then with menaces.


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## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

I would certainly be getting a solicitor involved now - preferably a litigator.

Also, phone the RSPCA - explain your concerns about neglect. I will be honest, they are unlikely to respond to concerns about cats being locked out, the RSPCA seems to interpret the law considering cats as free roaming as meaning that a cat locked outside in all hours is not being mistreated. They will however, look into the insanitary conditions the dogs are kept in. Incidentally, the RSPCA is currently the only organisation other than the CPS that can bring about prosecutions - I don't actually agree with this, but in this instance it could support your case - after all, any case against you for theft would most certainly be postponed/thrown out if the RSPCA were also investigating the people wanting the cat back.

Priority however is to find a solicitor - most will now offer a 30 minute free meeting - as I said, look for someone who's specialisation is listed as litigation or dispute resolution.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

*Environment, Food and Rural Affairs*
*Abandonment of Animals Act 1960*
*Mr. Amess:* To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will make a statement on the operation of the Abandonment of Animals Act 1960; and what amendments have been made to this Act since 1997. [177126]

*Jonathan Shaw:* The Abandonment of Animals Act 1960 was repealed and replaced by the Animal Welfare Act 2006.

_Under the 2006 Act, it is a criminal offence to either cause unnecessary suffering to-or fail to provide for the welfare needs of-any domestic or captive animal.

Under the Act, if someone who is responsible for an animal abandons it and it is unable to fend for itself, the person responsible will have failed to ensure its welfare and therefore committed an offence. If suffering has actually occurred as a result of the abandonment, a further offence will have been committed under the Act's provisions on unnecessary suffering. 
The Abandonment of Animals Act was passed in 1960 to combat the ''pups for Christmas'' problem. It was in force until the Animal Wefare Act was passed in 2006 when it was repealed as it was superfluous...it would hereonin be adequately covered by the AWA 2006 ._

_So it rather looks as tho' your neighbour is the criminal, not you and your husband._


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Erenya said:


> I would certainly be getting a solicitor involved now - preferably a litigator.
> 
> Also, phone the RSPCA - explain your concerns about neglect. I will be honest, they are unlikely to respond to concerns about cats being locked out, the RSPCA seems to interpret the law considering cats as free roaming as meaning that a cat locked outside in all hours is not being mistreated. They will however, look into the insanitary conditions the dogs are kept in. Incidentally, the RSPCA is currently the only organisation other than the CPS that can bring about prosecutions - I don't actually agree with this, but in this instance it could support your case - after all, any case against you for theft would most certainly be postponed/thrown out if the RSPCA were also investigating the people wanting the cat back.
> 
> Priority however is to find a solicitor - most will now offer a 30 minute free meeting - as I said, look for someone who's specialisation is listed as litigation or dispute resolution.


Charlotte: if you can get hold of either of them (they are both in the south-east I believe...or were) two lawyers who specialize in the Animal Welfare Act are _Nigel Weller_ and_ Sarah-Lise_ _Howe_. You will find them easily on Google. Nigel was in Sussex (Lewes I believe) and not sure about Sarah-Lise. But they both know the AWA 2006 inside out. Please don't feel defeated, YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. Have just seen one of mine disappearing thro' my neighbour's window...she adores Tim and he loves her. She's happy, he's happy and I know where she is; calling the police is the last thing on my mind.
Maybe also have a word with Social Services about the filth and dog excrement in a house used for child-minding...sure the new house is now knee-high. Poor dogs.


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Sorry I'm a bit late on this one, but I did read your post last night and was quite shocked, I find it hard to believe that genuine police officers would actually behave in this manner. It does seem incredibly heavy-handed for such an "offence" when it's supposed to be difficult to even get them to visit if you are burgled. 

If there's any justice in the world I sincerely hope you'll be able to keep Pixie, since you have cared for her so well and are clearly attached. It's a shame they didn't give a s**t before hand. Hoping you'll be able to find a way and that a solicitor can give you some hope once they know all the facts.


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Can't add to the excellent advice already given. I was appalled to hear of this.
Good luck.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

And certainly a disgrace they left her for Charks to feed for four whole months...what would have happened if Pixie had needed veterinary treatment, developed a nasty painful abscess (like my latest stray 'find'!) or what if she'd been hit by a car and needed emergency treatment? So she had a microchip, but the details may not have been updated, leaving Charlotte with the responsibility of getting her treatment done. As owners go, they are certainly extremely casual. Owner knew she was moving house, knew Charks had written to her some time before about Pixie. Surely she should have contacted her before they left, either to say that she wanted to take the cat with her or to say well, she's happy with you, what shall we do as WE ARE MOVING. This is one of the strangest stories I have heard.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We don't want to go down without a fight but isn't looking good.
We contacted Which. They only deal in consumer law.
We contacted CAB but the lawyer they referred us to will want 350 quid to start with.
The problem is that the police have made the case a criminal matter.
We can't understand why.
I asked one of the officers who visited us PS768 why they were treating this as a criminal matter. I asked him if Northants 
police force had ever charged anyone else with cat theft instead of letting the case be dealt with by civil courts. He wouldn't answer me.
Nothing makes sense about this case.
Then I remembered Kittih's post. 
Good ol' John Lewis home insurance. We were able to get some legal advice. 
We've been told we can fight the case but it's very risky. If we lose Steve will have a criminal record. The odds are against us.
We haven't kept full documentation and we didn't complain many times to the owners about the fact the cat had moved in with us. But then who does?
I have fired off many emails to cat organisations asking for help to no avail. 
We have contacted the RSCPA but have been told that the RSPCA is so busy we may not hear from them for weeks. 
We have contacted our MP and are waiting a reply.
Sergeant Darnell who contacted us about the case said he was on our side but told us he couldn't instruct the officers involved to drop the case. 
Why not? 
We haven't slept for two nights.We feel sick all the time and I am running out of Andrex. 
We have tried to contact our original contact in the police DC Richards but have been told she is very busy and can't speak to us.
We yet again had to go through the case with another officer.
Apparently Sergeant Darnell had reported that we were satisfied with his reply and had closed the case instead of escalating it.
So we have to start all over again.
The police will not let us speak to a high up official.
Instead another sergeant will ring us sometime to discuss the case with us.
What's the betting that will be after PC447 has arrested Steve or taken Pixie.
We give up.
Poor Pixie, who loves living with us, will have to go back to uncaring owners. 
It seems so unfair.
Why can't the UK be as compassionate as France?
They have passed a law freeing pets from being property.
In France we would be able to fight for Pixie.
Goodbye Pixie.


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## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

I know this is probably a stupid option, but you could contact the police, tell them how you feel about Pixie and offer to purchase her from the owners. It would probably cost less than lawyers fees, even if they asked a lot. It's a curveball I know - but you never know...

Also, another silly question - but why are the criminal charges being brought against Steve (your other half I assume) and not the both of you - that alone seems odd...


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

It seems very odd. I would make notes of all conversations who you spoke to and when. Do so in am impartial way ( no emotional wording).

Have you verbally refused to return the cat ever ?

I agree it looks like you have no option but to return the cat but would still recommend you submit a formal complaint to the ipcc regarding how you have been treated.


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

Can you not actually go in person to the police station and talk face to face? I don't know if that will help or speed things up but maybe the police putting a face to a name might get them to take a bit more notice.
Of course I understand that all this is so much easier said than done when you are already under so much stress.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

When all this first happened we were going to offer them money but then we thought it would look bad. I don't think they would accept it. The owners behavior totally baffles. They are like a child who gets tired of his toy and throws it away. But then another child picks it up and plays with it and the original child suddenly wants the toy back.

We would like to thank everyone who has tried to help us and supported us with good wishes.

And does anyone know a voodoo practitioner?


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

I know you're looking at all avenues which is very good. Could I also suggest you start a petition against the police in your area: https://www.change.org/start-a-peti...art a petition&matchtype=e&network=g&device=c

I'll definitely sign it and I'm sure others on this forum will as well. It will give you more garvitas against them. And could make it a better story for the local papers as well.


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

Charks said:


> When all this first happened we were going to offer them money but then we thought it would look bad. I don't think they would accept it.


You could ask- there's nothing about feeling good or bad about it. If this is financial motivation on their part- they might consider.


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

Have you contacted the IPCC. They are the police policing the police. Call them and explain your issue. They might be able to give you some advice on the phone.
I'm not a lawyer but it seems legally the Animal Welfare Act has been breached but the police acted wrongly. You have a better chance fighting against the wrongdoing of the police and they might have to reconsider their criminal pursuits.

https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Charks said:


> When all this first happened we were going to offer them money but then we thought it would look bad. I don't think they would accept it. The owners behavior totally baffles. They are like a child who gets tired of his toy and throws it away. But then another child picks it up and plays with it and the original child suddenly wants the toy back.
> 
> We would like to thank everyone who has tried to help us and supported us with good wishes.


Well, you could re-iterate that you genuinely belived the cat had been abandoned when the owners moved and decided to care for her yourself rather than take her to a local shelter, but as you have grown to love her so much you are happy to pay to adopt her. It has to be worth a shot to save her from returning to an envoronment she was so miserable in! 

If, unfortunately, you do have to return her, heartbreaking though it will be don't fall for the trap of sending all the cat trees, food, beds, bowls, toys, litter, trays, blankets etc. with her. I know it's tempting to do so on Pixie's behalf, but I suspect they expect you will send loads of stuff and hope to profit from your generosity. You bought them, so they can't demand you hand them over, and they certainly don't deserve to extort goods from you as well as the animal you love 

Incidentally, how long did it take the policeman to go away and fetch the carrier from the other people? If they haven't moved that far away, then when they let her out (and I'm betting they won't keep her in for long) she may well end up back on your doorstep!


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

ALR said:


> Have you contacted the IPCC. They are the police policing the police. Call them and explain your issue. They might be able to give you some advice on the phone.
> I'm not a lawyer but it seems legally the Animal Welfare Act has been breached but the police acted wrongly. You have a better chance fighting against the wrongdoing of the police and they might have to reconsider their criminal pursuits.
> 
> https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/


Yes, contact the IPCC as a matter of urgency. Even if they can't help Pixie, at least they can address the appalling attitude of the officers involved. From the sound of it they must be personal friends of either the owners or someone close to the owners, and are abusing their authority on behalf of those people.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

I do not think you should be the ones to take the cat back as the ''owners'' sound a bit unpredictable and they could make up all sorts about you. Not sure who is meant to take her back, but if the cat flap were left open (accidentally) she would no doubt scarper when someone knocked on the door, especially if it's the two who hammered last time. I'd even be inclined to tape record whoever comes so you have something concrete to hold against them if necessary if things heat up.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Jesthar said:


> Well, you could re-iterate that you genuinely belived the cat had been abandoned when the owners moved and decided to care for her yourself rather than take her to a local shelter, but as you have grown to love her so much you are happy to pay to adopt her. It has to be worth a shot to save her from returning to an envoronment she was so miserable in!
> 
> If, unfortunately, you do have to return her, heartbreaking though it will be don't fall for the trap of sending all the cat trees, food, beds, bowls, toys, litter, trays, blankets etc. with her. I know it's tempting to do so on Pixie's behalf, but I suspect they expect you will send loads of stuff and hope to profit from your generosity. You bought them, so they can't demand you hand them over, and they certainly don't deserve to extort goods from you as well as the animal you love
> 
> Incidentally, how long did it take the policeman to go away and fetch the carrier from the other people? If they haven't moved that far away, then when they let her out (and I'm betting they won't keep her in for long) she may well end up back on your doorstep!


Or poor thing might end up getting lost trying to find her way back to Charks, that would be my worry. Yes, if they live in the next road they won't keep her for more than a few days!!
What beautiful photos, she is a really pretty girl. Don't give her up easily...as you say tho, everything is really odd...why won't the WPC speak to you now...she could ring you when she's not so ''busy''. No wonder they are busy if they chase after every cat that leaves home.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

So we have contacted IPCC - no help.
We have contacted a barrister who has told us we haven't stolen the cat because there was no dishonesty. She can't help us keep the cat but she would be willing to fight for her return. But it would cost thousands. 
RSPCA won't help us.
I have emailed Nigel Weller but had no reply.
Everybody is sympathetic but won't or can't help.

We've got so fed up with it all.


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## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

Some interesting reading has demonstrated that under UK law you cannot steal something that has been abandoned. The law states that If the owner has renounced all property rights in the object, then the property is abandoned.

So, you wrote your next door neighbour a letter confirming that the cat was with you. You have then notified the owner of the location of the cat. So, if the previous owner then moved house without taking the cat and at that time did not attempt to make contact with you to retrieve the cat from your house (e.g. knock on door, post note through door, ring mobile number on door), then you can argue that they made no contact to take the cat with them during the move which you took to be a renouncement of their property rights in the cat.

Basically, they knew where the cat was but still moved house without making any effort to take the cat with them. ergo, the cat is adandoned.

If at a later time they attempted to recall the cat, it's too late, you took possession of the goods based on the fact that they had abandoned them.

There's a few key points here. firstly the letter you wrote - has the neighbour ever mentioned it to you so that you have evidence it was received. Secondly - did they ever make any effort to contact you to reclaim Pixie and Thirdly - when did the lost posters appear - if they appeared at the time they moved then the animal wasn't abandoned.

it's not much, but it's something


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We have no evidence it was received but since Steve posted the letter through their letter box we're 100% sure they got it. 

They did mention something about us interfering with their cats to the other neighbour so they knew we were looking after their cats.

They moved without making any effort to find Pixie and take her with them. Then we get the missing poster 4 months later.

But the police refuse to listen to reason.

A barrister has told us that it is not theft. The fact that she has been living us since July 15 without any protest from the owners could be interpreted that 
they had abandoned her. She offered to fight to get her back but it would cost thousands.

So that's it.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Actually, there's a thought - @Charks have you ever taken the cat to the vet and had her scanned for a chip? Or have you just taken their word for it? If you haven't had her scanned I would do so, as I have to confess I would be surprised if the other people would have bothered to chip her, and it's not unknown for people to lie about it for various reasons. If she is, she is, but it's worth a try.

*hugs* Don't give up just yet. What did the IPCC actually say? I can't believe they thought two Police officers behaving in that manner was acceptable, sirely?


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

She is chipped as our catflap recognises the chip.
The IPCC wouldn't even listen to Steve. We have to go through the right channels and it will take at least 15 days.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

@Charks: Four months after they moved out, you received a flyer thro your door re missing cat. Did they just put one thro your door or did they do the area? Do you think they knew she was with you ...had their friend being spying? Amazing really that they would leave her to fend for herself all winter (October to February) cold and hungry if you hadn't fed her. And they took the other cat with them as far as you know? Without any attempt to contact you to say they were moving and wanted to take Pixie with them. They sound like real shysters.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Charks said:


> She is chipped as our catflap recognises the chip.
> The IPCC wouldn't even listen to Steve. We have to go through the right channels and it will take at least 15 days.


Doesn't mean that the name on the chip is the other peoples name, though - if they had her from elsewhere they may not have bothered to change the details...

Have you approached the local paper about this? They love a good moral outrage story - "Police threaten couple who took in abandoned cat with jail" would make a good headline, don't you think? 

I'm sure they;d love that pic of the poo filled yard, taken when you were thinking of making a complaint about the noice and smell...


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

I don't know much about 'no win no fee' lawyers. Some of them are scrupulous. But there must be soem good ones out there. I'm wondering if there's a way of finding out the more reputable no win no fee solicitors.


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

Can I just ask is criminal court similar to civil court? If you go with the barister and you win your case, do you still incur a fee or does the prosecution incur the fee? 

If I recall there is a lawyer on the forum but I'm not sure who? May be someone can tag him/her.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

My thoughts are exactly the same as Erenya's. I have said all along your best bet is to claim the cat was abandoned - which it was. You have a reasonable case for that, and you have a good chance of winning.

Are there any Law Centres near you that can advise you of all the legal aspects so that you could maybe represent yourselves in court? It will only be a Magistrates Court, so not too intimidating. 

Or would the barrister you've spoken to agree to take your case on a pro bono basis? Though of course you would have to pay him/her if you won the case, unless the court awarded you all the costs.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

ALR said:


> Can I just ask is criminal court similar to civil court? If you go with the barister and you win your case, do you still incur a fee or does the prosecution incur the fee?
> 
> If I recall there is a lawyer on the forum but I'm not sure who? May be someone can tag him/her.


@havoc I think ?


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Charks said:


> She is chipped as our catflap recognises the chip.
> The IPCC wouldn't even listen to Steve. We have to go through the right channels and it will take at least 15 days.


Have been reading but not commenting so far but surely if your microchip cat flap is registering her chip ,that means you know the micro chip number to have programmed it to be accepted,or is that not how they work?


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

buffie said:


> Have been reading but not commenting so far but surely if your microchip cat flap is registering her chip ,that means you know the micro chip number to have programmed it to be accepted,or is that not how they work?


No, you just hold the cat under the flap scanner and it reads it for itself. I don't have a flap, but I know people who do


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

buffie said:


> Have been reading but not commenting so far but surely if your microchip cat flap is registering her chip ,that means you know the micro chip number to have programmed it to be accepted,or is that not how they work?


No she doesn't need the microchip number for the cat flap. If you set the reader to register it, it does it automatically without letting you know what the number is.

If the cat belongs to a different owner it would make matters a lot easier. But if OP goes to the vet, the vet will contact the owners so a bit of a catch 22.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

ALR said:


> No she doesn't need the microchip number for the cat flap. If you set the reader to register it, it does it automatically without letting you know what the number is.
> 
> If the cat belongs to a different owner it would make matters a lot easier. But if OP goes to the vet, the vet will contact the owners so a bit of a catch 22.


I realised after I posted that I was wrong ,its the chip that is registered as being an accepted number not an actual number put in to the cat flap.
Sometimes I have these "brain fade" moments


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

buffie said:


> I realised after I posted that I was wrong ,its the chip that is registered as being an accepted number not an actual number put in to the cat flap.
> Sometimes I have these "brain fade" moments


I have plenty of them. I wish I had an excuse for them (senility?) but the truth is I've always been like this.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I would stick to your guns at the moment as the owners may decide they can't be bothered to make a big deal out of this, they may have thought you would give in easily and return the cat straight away. They cannot claim you stole the cat as you didn't confine it did you? It was free to return to their home if it wanted. You have quite a lot on your side and people on here are raising a number of questions which you could use in your defence. Even if the police were to pursue this which I would be amazed at, your argument is the cat was abandoned as others have said so you should focus on that. Would you be entitled to legal aid? You could ask the solicitor. .


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## Cerijoanne (Jun 28, 2015)

Just read through this thread...:Banghead how frustrating for you! I am shocked. The police! Words fail me


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Charity said:


> I would stick to your guns at the moment as the owners may decide they can't be bothered to make a big deal out of this, they may have thought you would give in easily and return the cat straight away. They cannot claim you stole the cat as you didn't confine it did you? It was free to return to their home if it wanted. You have quite a lot on your side and people on here are raising a number of questions which you could use in your defence. Even if the police were to pursue this which I would be amazed at, your argument is the cat was abandoned as others have said so you should focus on that. Would you be entitled to legal aid? You could ask the solicitor. .


The problem is more that the other people seem to have at least one policeman on their side who is willing to stretch their authority to enforce the handing over of Pixie, to the point of threatening arrest and prison on a first meeting after borderline breaking in to private property. That's a very frightening situation to be facing, even if you are morally and probably legally in the right.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I've been alerted to this thread and tried to speed read it but it is very long so forgive me if I'm asking questions which are already answered. Have either of you been arrested and charged with theft?


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## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

At this stage I wouldn't use a barrister, they're only for if it goes to trial. Go to a usual solicitor and ask their opinion. It might be that a strongly worded letter might be enough. 

I do know an EXCELLENT litigator. he's based in Dorset, but will happily work nationally. I can give you his details, he's not super cheap but he is cheaper than a barrister and he is both relentless and has an unparalleled success rate


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> The problem is more that the other people seem to have at least one policeman on their side who is willing to stretch their authority to enforce the handing over of Pixie, to the point of threatening arrest and prison on a first meeting after borderline breaking in to private property. That's a very frightening situation to be facing, even if you are morally and probably legally in the right.


You're right and yes, it is very frightening, but surely something like this wouldn't get right through the whole procedure to take them to court for theft as the police haven't even acted responsibly at stage one by using bullying tactics and not even showing warrant cards plus they have a report of Charks getting in touch with them before all this kicked off.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

The police can't make the sort of threats stated here. We need to know if the OP or their partner has been charged.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Nope. No arrests or charges yet I believe. They have been given until tomorrow to return the cat. However I am unsure what exactly will happen tomorrow if they don't.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_So we have contacted IPCC - no help._
Can the OP elaborate on this please. Putting in a complaint to the IPCC is a formal process and a resonse usually takes a little longer.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_Nope. No arrests or charges yet I believe. They have been given until tomorrow to return the cat. However I am unsure what exactly will happen tomorrow if they don't._
I'm unsure too. Frankly I'd sit tight. Is this an indoor cat, physically restrained from returning to it's original home if it wished?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Honestly, I'd wait and see if they return with a warrant. There is a bit of a grey area here in that the police can enter if they believe there is stolen property on the premises. Of course, if they conduct a search and the 'stolen' property isn't there then there's little they can do. Cats are contrary beasts, especially those which are allowed to free roam


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

This is truly awful, and scary! And has been totally and utterly been conducted by the police in a heavy-handed, OTT, manner. I could really understand in the OP just handed the cat back, as the harassment and stress must be overwhelming. 
It baffles me that the police are doing this! Someone provides a home for a maltreated cat, and gets treated like this. Yet I caught a burglar red-handed in our garage, and the police never even bothered to come and take a statement from me. 
Truly, truly awful. Best of luck and keep us updated.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

havoc said:


> _Nope. No arrests or charges yet I believe. They have been given until tomorrow to return the cat. However I am unsure what exactly will happen tomorrow if they don't._
> I'm unsure too. Frankly I'd sit tight. Is this an indoor cat, physically restrained from returning to it's original home if it wished?


No, I believe it free roams and has access to a microchip cat flap


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Jesthar is correct. The cat has been free to come and go as it pleases in its current home.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Sounding good so far guys but I really need the OP to come back and confirm the answers.
I know my posts probably don't sound as sympathetic as others but as my old gran used to say 'an ounce of help is worth a pound of sympathy'


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

havoc said:


> Sounding good so far guys but I really need the OP to come back and confirm the answers.
> I know my posts probably don't sound as sympathetic as others but as my old gran used to say 'an ounce of help is worth a pound of sympathy'


Absolutely Havoc! And you are the voice of calm in the midst of the storm


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

havoc said:


> Sounding good so far guys but I really need the OP to come back and confirm the answers.
> I know my posts probably don't sound as sympathetic as others but as my old gran used to say 'an ounce of help is worth a pound of sympathy'


Indeed, you might actually be able to help turn things around here  Good on ya, @havoc  Hope the OP can confirm soon.

Just a sideways thought, if the current officers continue in their aggressive actions, they might try and take Pixie anyway despite the dubious nature of the previous neighbours ownership claim. Would the OP be in any legal risk if they temporarily took Pixie to an undisclosed alternate location until ownership can be formally decided? As I'm thinking if the other people get her then it will be much harder to get her back...


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I couldn't possibly suggest any particular action along those lines but in general terms if the police search for stolen property and don't find what they're looking for it is a bit of a dead end. It's already been stated that this is a very nervous cat so I wouldn't be at all surprised if it had disappeared after such an upset in the home.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

Hi Havoc.

She has free exit/entrance through a microchip cat flap - but we have had to disable the chip sensing because it frightens her.
We have never stopped her going out but now she is a pampered house cat she spends most of her time in her cat bed or the cat tree we 
bought specially for her. Our existing cat is 19 and is not interested in acrobats.
The way the PC spoke to us on Wednesday we know he will be on our door step early tomorrow.
We have exhausted all our means of help and we are resigned to handing her over..
The local rag is interested in our story - over zealous police always sell papers. But once she is gone
that's it. We are toying with the idea of contacting her owners. The female is starting up a Reiki practise. Maybe 
the thought of a newspaper story showing them in a bad light would worry her? But would that be considered harassment?
We just don't know what to do?


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

I am truly astounded at the speed you have managed to get responses from the police station, the IPCC, CAB, JL legal advice and a barrister. Is this happening in real time or over a few days?

Round our way a stolen cat would get a PCSO eventually, not two policemen immediately and with such firm intent.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We took today off work. I have been sending emails etc and Steve has been phoning people.
His voice is hoarse from the hours of talking. We dread our next phone bill.

We thought that the police would be worried over the bad press our story would entail. But the reporter
says they don't give a shit about bad press. How can they be so arrogant?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Please stay calm - I know it isn't easy. I have to go out for about an hour but I'll check back in here as soon as I get back.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Jesthar said:


> Doesn't mean that the name on the chip is the other peoples name, though - if they had her from elsewhere they may not have bothered to change the details...
> 
> Have you approached the local paper about this? They love a good moral outrage story - "Police threaten couple who took in abandoned cat with jail" would make a good headline, don't you think?
> 
> I'm sure they;d love that pic of the poo filled yard, taken when you were thinking of making a complaint about the noice and smell...


DM totally loves this sort of thing also...in fact the ginger cat (Marmalade) that the court case was about was in the DM.:CatAlso, since Charks was told twice by solicitors that this was _not_ theft, so if not theft, actually not an offence at all, she needs to know why the two constables behaved in such a disgusting way. She should get a very grovelling apology.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I pm'd the OP before I took the dog out but not had a reply. They may be busy and they may have given up which would be a shame but understandable. It isn't easy to stand up to bullies and even harder when they wear a uniform.

I will outline the sort of things which were in my mind, the sort of questions I'd expect to be asked if this did go further, for the sake of the general points raised on this thread.

What exactly did the police do to ascertain the cat was stolen property before effecting entry to the OP's home?
Have they scanned the microchip and if so does it show as registered to the complainant's current address?
If it does when were the details last updated?
As they found the 'stolen' property inside the OP's home why have they not charged anyone with theft?
If they have evidence of ownership and theft why have they left stolen property at the home of the accused? It's evidence and it isn't exactly the norm for them to be so trusting with criminals 

I'll hazard a wild guess here that the reason they've gone down the route of trying to bully the OP into giving the cat to the complainant is because they know they don't have the grounds to take it. To gain a prosecution they would have to take the cat to a secure boarding facility and go through all those checks - don't suppose your average evidence locker would suffice. Anyone here who has had property stolen and recovered knows you don't get it back until either the case is dropped or there's been a trial.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

They don't need to prove anything. We wrote to the owners and told them we had their cat.

We are decent people. We have gone through a missing cat scenario. We were so upset we tried everything to get him back. We even paid for an advert in our local paper. We have suffered the agony of a missing cat. It isn't fair to leave them in ignorance.

So we deserve everything that has happened because we were so naive to think that everyone would consider Pixie's welfare above everything else. The RSPCA are a disgrace. Why do they exist?
They should be proactive not reactive. Stop abuse before animals suffer! 

The police will take Pixie away tomorrow and it is our fault because we were honest.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

When did you write to them?


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## Elaine b37 (May 25, 2014)

I am a bit confused about the Barrister, has she agreed to accept direct access instructions from you? because usually Barristers accept professional instructions (from a solicitor usually) although it is possible to instruct directly they are usually only called upon when you are actually about to be tried in Court or have at least been charged but no one has been arrested let alone charged? who did you make the complaint to re the IPCC? it takes on average 5 weeks to process a complaint, so how do you know they are unable to help?


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We took legal advice and friends advice. It was all negative. Everyone said don't contact them. But we couldn't be so cruel. We were really apprehensive about their reaction. I wrote and rewrote the letter over 20 times. It was 6 weeks until we got up the courage to send the letter.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

When did you send the letter? How long ago?


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## Elaine b37 (May 25, 2014)

who did you get the legal advice from?


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

It was advice from various forums - probably not good advice.

Anyway it isn't doesn't matter.

We have lost Pixie.

All this analysis won't help us. 

It is just making me cry and Steve has lost patience with me.

I am just dwelling on a lost cause.

So thanks for trying to help but we have accept that we have lost.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

@havoc is trying to help you - please provide all the information requested!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

If you'd just give some straight answers to straightforward questions it isn't necessarily a lost cause at all.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

havoc said:


> The police can't make the sort of threats stated here. We need to know if the OP or their partner has been charged.





havoc said:


> Honestly, I'd wait and see if they return with a warrant. There is a bit of a grey area here in that the police can enter if they believe there is stolen property on the premises. Of course, if they conduct a search and the 'stolen' property isn't there then there's little they can do. Cats are contrary beasts, especially those which are allowed to free roam


Cats have been known to scarper thro unlocked cat flaps when they hear aggressive banging on the door. Fancy that!


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

Please read our original post. 

We thought that Pixies owners would give her up out of compassion.

Being threatened with theft by the police was a total shock. 

How can it be theft when there was no dishonesty?

We have stressed this to the police in every conversation but they refuse to accept it.

What more can we do? 

We are not being evasive but we haven't a leg to stand on. We have admitted we have Pixie and the police
have decided we have stolen her. It is too late to stop PC447 from taking her tomorrow. He is probably acting like this 
because he has connections to the owners. But we will never be able to prove it. The police have closed ranks. 
Why flog a dead horse?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Flogging a dead horse is definitely a waste of time and effort - I'm out.


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## LoopyL (Jun 16, 2015)

I hope Pixie votes with her feet & returns to you safely x


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

Please don't think we don't appreciate your help. But we have been through such a lot in these last two days. We have spent every spare moment trying to get help. We have contacted everyone we could think of. We are self employed but we took today off to try and save Pixie. I even emailed the men standing for Northants Police Commissioner. We have had no help from anyone. We cannot stand the stress anymore - we haven't slept for two nights. I am fed up with feeling sick all the time. We have less than 9 hours to save Pixie. We have to accept facts. The police will never change their minds. We are cat thieves. Even our MP couldn't help us. My mum assures me that God will help us. Well he hasn't so how could anyone else help us?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

What I find rather ironic is that if Charks...or anyone else for that matter, had phoned the RSPCA as soon as it became obvious that Pixie had been abandoned, which she had, and told them that here was a cat, owners gone, living under a trailer, the RSPCA would have been jumping over the owner's back gate to ''interview them under caution'' for not ensuring their cat's welfare and drag them thro court. They are the criminals, they abandoned her. Saying that, nothing surprises me these days. When two guys dumped two ponies in my yard, after two months I phoned World Horse Welfare and said look, they don't want to pay for their keep so they are keeping out of my way, and so as far as I am concerned they have been effectively abandoned. I was told that _I_ had to feed them,_ I_ had a ''duty of care'' to these ponies. I pointed out that I was already providing a free field and shelter and that I already had two of my own to spend my money on. The law really is an ass in this country. And noticeably so where animals are concerned.


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## Elaine b37 (May 25, 2014)

Which police station are the officers from Charks? maybe we could all e mail the station and ask for some compassion (and common sense)?


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We don't know. The police don't give any more information than they have to. We assume it is Kettering. We have tried to speak to someone higher up to try and 
inject some common sense into PC447. Although he is the lowest rank of officer we have been told that his superiors can't command him to drop the case. 
a


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Charks said:


> We don't know. The police don't give any more information than they have to. We assume it is Kettering. We have tried to speak to someone higher up to try and
> inject some common sense into PC447. Although he is the lowest rank of officer we have been told that his superiors can't command him to drop the case.
> a


I find that in itself a bit odd..can't see why they have ranks if they can all do what they like.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Charks said:


> Please don't think we don't appreciate your help. But we have been through such a lot in these last two days. We have spent every spare moment trying to get help. We have contacted everyone we could think of. We are self employed but we took today off to try and save Pixie. I even emailed the men standing for Northants Police Commissioner. We have had no help from anyone. We cannot stand the stress anymore - we haven't slept for two nights. I am fed up with feeling sick all the time. We have less than 9 hours to save Pixie. We have to accept facts. The police will never change their minds. We are cat thieves. Even our MP couldn't help us. My mum assures me that God will help us. Well he hasn't so how could anyone else help us?


@Charks @havoc is desparately TRYING to help you - if you give factual answers to the questions asked, you might yet save Pixie from her fate.  Please try not to give in to panic and despair when Pixie needs you to answer for her


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## Elaine b37 (May 25, 2014)

Charks said:


> We don't know. The police don't give any more information than they have to. We assume it is Kettering. We have tried to speak to someone higher up to try and
> inject some common sense into PC447. Although he is the lowest rank of officer we have been told that his superiors can't command him to drop the case.
> a


I am sorry but this is just nonsense, the police do not operate in this way, and who have you been ringing if you don't know which station the police who visited you are from?


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We get the impression that the police will never admit they are wrong. PC447 has decided that Steve has stolen Pixie and that is that. Maybe we have been too reasonable - maybe we should have
been more forceful. Do the police only respond to people that are really aggressive? Why do we, the tax payer, have to be so humble when asking for help. They are public servants. They should be helpful not secretive.Why wouldn't they give Steve the name of a high ranking officer so he could ask for help.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Why won't you give straight answers to simple questions?


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

Jesthar said:


> @Charks @havoc is desparately TRYING to help you - if you give factual answers to the questions asked, you might yet save Pixie from her fate.  Please try not to give in to panic and despair when Pixie needs you to answer for her


I agree. I understand you're emotional but let Havoc help you. You've given up anyway so what have you got to lose that you haven't lost already.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

For what it's worth, I read recently that ''a stray cat remains the property of the owner _unless it was deliberately abandoned''_. Pixie was abandoned.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

The obvious way to at least buy time has already been discussed on this thread. There is no court order in place requiring the the cat is surrendered and there's been no arrest or charge. So far all We've heard about is a lot of hot air.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

Please believe us they do.
Contact sgt Darrnell (498) northants police and ask him what he has told us. [email protected] 
I am not being evasive but I don't know what you want. I told you everything in my OP. The only thing not included was the date of our letter to the owners.
I admit we took our time to reply to their missing leaflet .We finally replied on the 1.4.16. But we did reply. We could have stayed silent. That would have been theft. We run a fast food business and we asked the advice of several customers and, privately, they advised us to say nothing. At times like this I wish I was friends with my cousin Judge Gregory Stone QC.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

May I humbly suggest that the massed forces of PF do NOT send feisty emails to this email address based on a single thread by a stranger?


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Charks said:


> Please believe us they do.
> Contact sgt Darrnell (498) northants police and ask him what he has told us.
> I am not being evasive but I don't know what you want. I told you everything in my OP. The only thing not included was the date of our letter to the owners.
> I admit we took our time to reply to their missing leaflet .We finally replied on the 1.4.16. But we did reply. We could have stayed silent. That would have been theft. We run a fast food business and we asked the advice of several customers and, privately, they advised us to say nothing. At times like this I wish I was friends with my cousin Judge Gregory Stone QC.


Havoc is asking because it is easier to have the relevant information concisely togethr in one post rather than have to sift through the whole thread to find them. If you still want to help Pixie, then if you answer the questions havoc may be able to help. That's all.

Probably not wise to be putting people's e-mail addresses up, though


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

Charks said:


> Please believe us they do.
> Contact sgt Darrnell (498) northants police and ask him what he has told us. [email protected]
> I am not being evasive but I don't know what you want. I told you everything in my OP. The only thing not included was the date of our letter to the owners.
> I admit we took our time to reply to their missing leaflet .We finally replied on the 1.4.16. But we did reply. We could have stayed silent. That would have been theft. We run a fast food business and we asked the advice of several customers and, privately, they advised us to say nothing. At times like this I wish I was friends with my cousin Judge Gregory Stone QC.


Can I clarify that there is a charge? I think you mentioned in one of your post the police station sent you a letter. Was that a formal charge? Can you write down some of the language here? It might help.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

t wouldn't help if you did. It would probably turn the police even more against us.
I just put it in to prove we had been in contact with the police. They don't care about us. Steve was told this afternoon that he would be contacted by
yet another sgt to discuss the situation. It is 23.15 and we have heard nothing.
The situation is this. PC447 will return to duty at 7 am tomorrow. Sgt Darnell will leave a report of his conversation with Steve on PC447 desk.. He has told Steve that he will recommend PC447 to drop the case but PC447 will do whatever he sees fit. We don't think PC447 is the type of man who will admit he is wrong. He may not even see Sgt Darnell's note. Sgt Darnell wouldn't contact PC447 directly as he was on leave.We expect to see PC447 at approx 7.30 am and we will have to hand Pixie to him or he will charge Steve with theft. I am now going to bed as I got up at 6 am.
We have received nothing in writing only PC447 assurance that he will be seeing us tomorrow.,
They couldn't take the cat because she'd legged it. They knew the cat was with us ços we wrote a letter to the owners and told them. When one officer came round the back of the house he saw Pixie on her cat tree. The officer didn't arrest Steve because he told us he was on leave until 7.00 am. He will come back then and expect us to hand the cat to him. If we don't do that he will arrest Steve. She is chipped but we don't think anyone has accessed the information. If they have we haven't been told. He insisted on going to the owners to pick up a cat basket. It took him over 20 minutes. We had to stand in embarrassed silence with the other officer until he returned. Why didn't he have a cat basket with him? Why did he have to get a basket from the owner. We told him we have a basket. He expects us to put Pixie in the basket to be ready for him but has given us no indication when to expect him. We expect he will visit us as soon as he comes on duty but he may decide to make us wait all day.


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

Charlotte, I don't get why you are accepting defeat so easily when loads of strangers are giving you sensible advice. You have had a qualified person trying to help you and who is really trying to cobble together facts from assumptions- and directly from you (and this is happening, dare I say, free of charge)
If I were you, I would really take that help and have enough arsenal to face anything and will hopefully enable you to buy time.
Sometimes it is better to let someone guide you than dictating the situation yourself. I would grab that help with both hands and not let it go.
I understand how terrified you feel, but if you really love that cat, you wouldn't give up without a fight as you have done the right thing by taking her in when she was abandoned. I would write a list of everything everyone has said (which sound doable) and cross them off. I would ring your ex- neighbours and ask them why they are so interested now. I would record the call for evidence. This would at least tell them that you wont give her up just because someone bullied you. 

Thats all I have to say. I hope things work out for you.

This PC447 case needs to be disciplined, and fast. He's crossed loads of lines in one evening- not how I would expect a professional to do his job.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We have been beaten down by all the negative replies we have had.

John Lewis legal team couldn't help us.

Our MP couldn't help.

Local rag couldn't help.

RSPCA wouldn't help - in fact were useless.

All the cat organisations ignored us. 

The police commissioner candidates didn't reply.

We have lost hope
l


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## Blue-BearUK (Aug 11, 2015)

It all sounds abit far fetched to me to be honest. I can't imagine police officers being so heavily involved so quick & so forceful. 

It would be interesting to hear the owners side of the story... 

If I'm wrong and this is all going on... What's stopping Pixie doing a runner in the morning anyway? Isn't she free to come and go as she likes. How do they expect you to hand her over at such and such time. 

"Sorry she's not in today"... thats what my answer would be If her owners are as awful as you say. 

What exactly are they going to do? Lock you up and throw away the key because you rescued a cat...


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

Blue-BearUK said:


> It all sounds abit far fetched to me to be honest. I can't imagine police officers being so heavily involved so quick & so forceful.


She's had loads of help from people here, and a qualified person on the forum, and is still on the tones of "we have to give her up."

I might be crucified here, but I'm really not sure what to believe at this stage. It just sounds very bully- thuggish- which is the last thing you should back down from.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Blue-BearUK said:


> It all sounds abit far fetched to me to be honest. I can't imagine police officers being so heavily involved so quick & so forceful.
> 
> It would be interesting to hear the owners side of the story...
> 
> ...


Many cats do a runner when they see the cat carrier, now that would be dreadful, especially if the window was open and the flap unlocked. My neighbor has one that does a runner and won't come back until after dark. I had one myself and if he was going to the vet I had to get the carrier out a couple of day before and leave it open on the floor rather than suddenly produce it.


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## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

Just read the whole thread (insomnia) and can't offer much advice. I know you are stressed and upset and feel all is lost but is it possible to have someone with you when the officer turns up? If only for moral support. I would be tempted to ask calmly what he intends to do if you do not hand Pixie over. Is he going to arrest you or Steve? Is he going to charge you with anything? Tell him that you consider the cat to have been abandoned as your neighbours moved without taking her with them even though you had previously written to them to let them know that you were taking care of her. As Pixie has outdoor access, she has been free to return to your neighbours and you did not intentionally deprive them of their property. Inform him that you are taking legal advice re this and have been advised not to hand Pixie over at this time. 

I know all this is easier said than done and the officer seems like a bully who will not listen to reason (and no doubt a friend of the owners) but I think it's worth calling his bluff. It's possible he may back down when he realises you are not going to hand Pixie over there and then and he will have to go to plan B which will no doubt involve a lot of paperwork. 

Please do pursue a complaint against this officer though as it sounds as though he has overstepped boundaries here big time. Any investigation would also find out whether there is any relationship between him and the owners. Not very professional for him to use his job to help his mate get his (abandoned) cat back.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

I understand what everyone is saying.

There are two sides to every story.

But the fact is Steve is in danger of being arrested for cat theft.

If we hide the cat we don't know what PC447 will do.

Steve is not a cat thief.

Here is an extract from http://www.thepetdetectives.com/inv...relation-to-stolen-missing-and-lost-cats.html

It is written by an ex PC.

However, proving theft, especially in relation to cats - which have a tendency to wander off, can be quite difficult. To establish that an offence of theft has been committed all the elements of the offence must be proven. There must be dishonesty (an act which an ordinary person would believe to be dishonest) and there must be an appropriation (taking, hiding etc) there must be property, (a cat) which must belong to another (person of entity) and finally there must be an intention to permanently deprive (keep from the owner forever). The intention must be formed at the same time as the other elements of the offence are committed. However, a person's appropriation of a missing cat can become dishonest if they subsequently decide (form the intent) to keep the cat - or give it to someone else - after they have found it. This is what is known as theft by finding.

We have never been dishonest. We told the owners where the cat was.

The barrister told us this when she heard our story.

Why does PC447 say he is?

We have put in a complaint to the IPCC but have been told it is a long process.

The local newspaper is interested in our story but once we have lost PIxie whats the point?

I suppose it would be a type of revenge against the owners but it won't help Pixie.

Poor girl is sitting at my feet and rubbing against me. She doesn't know what is going to happen to her.

I feel so guilty . We have made her a pampered house cat and I feel sure she will now have to adapt to being an outdoor cat once again.

I cannot believe why her owners want her back.

We have explained to them why she moved in with us - how nervous she is.

It is so cruel to force her return.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I think this thread should be closed. All possible advice has been given and ignored so there's no merit in keeping it going.


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

If your have to hand her over, I feel she'll come back. What will you do then?

Don't give up on the local newspaper? if the owners feel under pressure there is a chance they'll give the cat back. Or the Rspca will have to investigate.

If the local newspaper is interested, do keep talking to them. Every one loves an animal story and want it to have a happy ending.

Take as much evidence as you need. Ask the police officer if you can take a picture of him taking the cat away. Or if his badge.

http://content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Charks as you viewed this thread 24 minutes ago are you able to tell us what happened at 7am?


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

@havoc it must be very frustrating for you to offer the right help and have it rejected, but it's really lifted my heart that there are people like you around who are willing to go out of their way to help others like this. Thank you for making the world a nicer place to be in!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

havoc said:


> I think this thread should be closed. All possible advice has been given and ignored so there's no merit in keeping it going.


@havoc: just in case the police decide they are making a mistake and Pixies stays, I'd like it to keep going. It's not getting vindictive or embarrassing for anyone...it's 0843 and I'm wondering.


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

Just caught up. I guess we are all waiting for news. 
One thing (well quite a few things really, but...) that puzzles me is why do they want to arrest Steve in particular and not you or both of you? I really don't get that part at all.

I have a sneeky feeling that they came to put the frighteners on you that night, probably with the intention of taking the cat there and then but they couldn't, and despite all they have told you, you probably won't here from them again


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We are sitting here waiting.

When PC447 arrives we will ask him the following questions.

'Why have you escalated this case into a criminal matter?

To be accused of theft one has to have acted in a dishonest way.

We have never made a secret of Pixie's whereabouts.

It should be left as a civil matter so we could get together with the owners and discuss the cats welfare.

This whole situation came about because we were worried about Pixie's welfare.

It was clear that the owners were breaking the Animal Welfare Act 2006 section 9 which is a criminal offence. Why would Pixie be living in the rough shelter we made if she had a cosy house to live in. She lived in this for over 4 months. See picture.

Even PS498 Darnell agrees with us that this case should have been left as a civil matter.

Looking back we should have reported them to the RSPCA. We didn't because 
we had been reading such bad press about them taking animals and the fact that over half the animals they 'rescue' get put down. 

Our letter to the owners ( Jan'15 ) made it clear that we were worried about Pixies welfare.

They broke the Act by leaving Pixie out in all weather (minus 6) without any shelter. 

We should have the law on our side.

Why are you acting in their interest? They are clearly in the wrong.

You obviously don't care about animal welfare. 

You are the person who has decided that this case is a criminal matter

You understand that you are returning Pixie to people who will probably carry on breaking the 2006 act.'

He will probably decline to answer but it would be nice to know his reasoning.

We will have to give her up or Steve will be arrested for theft.

So we are just sitting around waiting for PC447's visit.


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

Calvine said:


> @havoc: just in case the police decide they are making a mistake and Pixies stays, I's like it to keep going. It's not getting vindictive or embarrassing for anyone...it's 0843 and I'm wondering.


I don't think it's vindication, I think a lot of other people here, including me, have been suspicious about this thread. Part of my work is detecting fraud and in this thread there are a lot of red flags. The avoidance of answering questions directing, the quoting of random numbers, no actual facts but information that might seem like facts etc. They're all classic signs. However I do give people the benefit of the doubt because there is a chance that this is just an OP whose stressed and clumsy. Saying that I think if the OP is an attention seeker then they have bigger problems than I have.


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## ps60 (Aug 1, 2010)

What a pity the police seem to have nothing better to do, like catching real criminals for a change. For anybody who has been following the news, there is so much they turn a blind eye to, yet they seem to have no problems going after those who do good.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

I can't believe you can be so heartless as to accuse me of attention seeking.

We have been under such a lot of stress these past few days that I may not have put my case forward in a cohesive way.
But is so difficult to do this in a forum where posts don't seem to follow a logical sequence. I am trying to answer questions while other posts are
making valid points that I have missed. I assumed that Havoc had read all my posts and the questions he was asking had already been answered.
Also, to be frank, we had just about given up last night and were so depressed we had opened a bottle of wine.

I am not being evasive.

This is the first time I have done something like this and I'm sorry if I didn't do it right.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I don't think there will be police at your door today. Anyone else think the same?


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

I will post a photo of pc447 taking Pixie - if he will let me take a photo.


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Charks

What actual legal advice have you sought so far?


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We have spoken to John Lewis legal team. It is a service under our house insurance.

They basically told us it was a no brainer.

We spoke to a barrister Rebecca Lewis-Murray. She assured us that it wasn't theft
but said that nothing could stop PC447 from taking Pixie unless he changed his mind. His superior officer 
agrees that this should be left as a civil matter but claims he has no powers to order PC447 to drop the case.
We rang Rebecca early this morning to ask her advice - could we refuse to hand over Pixie. She told us If we do so we will be then 
guilty of theft. And he will have the right to seize Pixie.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

moggie14 said:


> I don't think there will be police at your door today. Anyone else think the same?


.........or any other day for that matter.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Any particular reason why you would seek the advice of a motoring law and road offences barrister in a matter concerning theft of property? 

As a former solicitor, an awful lot of this is rather bizarre, to put it mildly.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We were referred to her by a member of the website Contact Law.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Charks said:


> I will post a photo of pc447 taking Pixie - if he will let me take a photo.


He's really not going to do that.
It's 09.30 now, you have waited long enough; in your position I would just say you had to go out, you waited, things to do. Leave a note on the door and let the cat out.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Charks said:


> We were referred to her by a member of the website Contact Law.


And she's given you all of this advice free of charge? Including a phone call, out of hours early on a Saturday morning?

If so, you are very lucky. For that sort of service from any of my barrister friends you'd be looking at hundreds of pounds.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

I know it seems unreal but she seemed a very nice person. She felt sorry for us.
Initial consultations with her are free. But she told us we could contact her anytime over the weekend if we
needed to. Of course she wants us to employ her to get Pixie back. She said she thinks we have a good case.


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Charks said:


> We were referred to her by a member of the website Contact Law.


So in their drop down menu you chose the motoring section? They also don't refer, just give a list of local solicitors etc, who then charge for any advice given. How many solicitors have you contacted/visited so far?


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

I have just read the entire thread and am really sorry you find yourself in this position. It must feel extremely frightening.

However, it is now 9.45 am. You would be bang to rights to call up the police station and ask where the officer is, as you have other things to do.

If he arrives, ask for his warrant.

If for some reason, Pixie isn't at your house, she can't be taken, can she? After all, she has free access to the outside via the flap and you are not keeping her against her will. Likewise, you have no obligation to catch her and put her in a basket - that is up to someone else.

I would like to think the police have more important things to do with their time, but apparently not. 

Good luck!


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Charks said:


> I know it seems unreal but she seemed a very nice person. She felt sorry for us.
> Initial consultations with her are free. But she told us we could contact her anytime over the weekend if we
> needed to. Of course she wants us to employ her to get Pixie back. She said she thinks we have a good case.


If she has advised you that the police have a right to seize Pixie(as you say above) and if you refuse you will be guilty of theft then how can she think you have a good case?

Also, you would not employ her. You would instruct a solicitor, who in turn would instruct a barrister.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

moggie14 said:


> I don't think there will be police at your door today. Anyone else think the same?


It's 10 am, so no, they are not going to come now...if they ever were planning to.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

On Friday morning we decided we had to take the advice of this forum and get legal advice. We contacted the CAB and they told us to contact 'contact law'. We rang them up on Friday morning and told them our story. At such short notice they told us it was unlikely we wouldn't be able to see anyone. They recommended Rebecca because she is a specialist in criminal law. She was the only contact we were given. We spent all Friday on the phone asking various organisations for help. Poor Steve was just telling our story over and over again and getting nowhere. Do you realise how demoralizing it is to get so many rejections. Even our MP couldn't help.
The problem is we have had such a small amount of time to organise anything. The first day after the police visit we were in a state of shock and didn't know what to do. I must say that the information we got from this forum has helped a lot. I don't understand why you have turned against us?


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## MiloandTazzy (Dec 10, 2014)

Your writing style is very familiar, I hope my gut instinct is wrong. 

Did you realise that in your email to the police you starting writing as 'Charlotte' changed to writing as 'Steve' part way through and then back to 'Charlotte'?


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Charks said:


> At such short notice they told us it was unlikely we wouldn't be able to see anyone.


Correct, so how many solicitors did you contact?


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Charks said:


> On Friday morning we decided we had to take the advice of this forum and get legal advice. We contacted the CAB and they told us to contact 'contact law'. We rang them up on Friday morning and told them our story. At such short notice they told us it was unlikely we wouldn't be able to see anyone. They recommended Rebecca because she is a specialist in criminal law. She was the only contact we were given. We spent all Friday on the phone asking various organisations for help. Poor Steve was just telling our story over and over again and getting nowhere. Do you realise how demoralizing it is to get so many rejections. Even our MP couldn't help.
> The problem is we have had such a small amount of time to organise anything. The first day after the police visit we were in a state of shock and didn't know what to do. I must say that the information we got from this forum has helped a lot. I don't understand why you have turned against us?


Today is the first time I've got involved and from a purely legal, non emotional point of view, very little of this rings true. In fact, it all sounds rather preposterous.

@MiloandTazzy - I wonder if we are thinking the same thing...


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Also @Charks - could you answer my question, please. If 'your barrister' has said you will be 'guilty of theft' then why does she also think you have a 'good case' for her return should she be seized?


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

We are so happy. We have just been contacted by Inspector Sarah Louise Harlock PO434. She has read our case thoroughly and is totally on our side.
She has told us we are not guilty of theft. We have done nothing wrong. We have acted only out of concern for Pixie. She has told pc447 to visit the owners and advise 
them that they should sign Pixie over to us. It is in Pixie's best interests to live with us. If they refuse to do so they will have to take us to court to get Pixie back And the police will back us.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Shock horror. Didn't see that one coming...


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

Are you pleased for us?


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

Charks said:


> Are you pleased for us?


It's a happy ending.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Charks said:


> Are you pleased for us?


Me?

I'm very pleased that you've realised that given the sheer amount of holes and inaccuracies in your story that there's no point carrying on with this farce.


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)

What a very odd story. 

And now that people are starting to be sceptical it just solves itself?

Honestly to me this whole thing reads like someone who wanted a bit of attention and twisted the truth a bit and then it got so far that it had to be kept up. 

But what do I know


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Well, I have never ever heard of the police taking such an interest in one cat. I am truly amazed, really I am. Words fail me; almost.


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## Charks (Apr 14, 2016)

This is my last post.

How dare you question my integrity.

I expected only to get help from this site not this stream of abuse.

If you do not believe me please ring the Inspector.

She is a member of the Northamptonshire Police force.

Ring 101 and ask for PO434

Or PS498 Darnell or PC447 White or PS768 Goosey.

When you have done so I will expect an apology.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Charks said:


> This is my last post.
> 
> How dare you question my integrity.
> 
> ...


You got plenty of help and good advice when you first posted.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Charks said:


> This is my last post.
> 
> How dare you question my integrity.
> 
> ...


Because the police don't have more important things to do than deal with queries from people from a cat forum regarding the authenticity of ludicrous story?

Erm.... Ok then.

This is almost as bizarre as a cat bring food to its sick owner. Oh hang on, we've heard that one before too.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Calvine said:


> Well, I have never ever heard of the police taking such an interest in one cat. I am truly amazed, really I am. Words fail me; almost.


Do you remember the cat who was going to be put to sleep because her owner was very ill? I was almost taken in with that one and did post, just in case. Not this time.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

LizzieandLoca said:


> Because the police don't have more important things to do than deal with queries from people from a cat forum regarding the authenticity of ludicrous story?
> 
> Erm.... Ok then.
> 
> This is almost as bizarre as a cat bring food to its sick owner. Oh hang on, we've heard that one before too.


Cross posted. Two minds.............


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

QOTN said:


> Do you remember the cat who was going to be put to sleep because her owner was very ill? I was almost taken in with that one and did post, just in case. Not this time.


@QOTN - great minds think alike...

I wonder how Sasha is getting on.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Do you remember the cat who was going to be put to sleep because her owner was very ill? I was almost taken in with that one and did post, just in case. Not this time.


They were going to be buried together...yes, the cat who took cupcakes upstairs to her sick owner. That was a classic!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

LizzieandLoca said:


> This is almost as bizarre as a cat bring food to its sick owner. Oh hang on, we've heard that one before too.


Good catch


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Charks said:


> We are so happy. We have just been contacted by Inspector Sarah Louise Harlock PO434. She has read our case thoroughly and is totally on our side.
> She has told us we are not guilty of theft. We have done nothing wrong. We have acted only out of concern for Pixie. She has told pc447 to visit the owners and advise
> them that they should sign Pixie over to us. It is in Pixie's best interests to live with us. If they refuse to do so they will have to take us to court to get Pixie back And the police will back us.


Good news, I am pleased for you. And Pixie.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

If I had contacted the Police stating somebody had stolen my cat, then days later an Officer knocked on my door telling me it would be best to sign the cat over to the person who had my cat, I would be fuming.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

catcoonz said:


> If I had contacted the Police stating somebody had stolen my cat, then days later an Officer knocked on my door telling me it would be best to sign the cat over to the person who had my cat, I would be fuming.


Not to mention the police then agreeing to back the alleged thief in any subsequent proceedings regarding the return of the cat.


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

Have we been taken for fools? I hope not. 
If this is genuine then great news, however shame on you for wasting so many caring members time if this is not.
Apologies if I'm out of line here


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## Blue-BearUK (Aug 11, 2015)

I'm so glad other members had the same thoughts as me. I thought from the first few posts that this is written very similar to sashasdad..... Hmmm. 

Would be interesting if the IP address could be traced easily. I guess not though. 

Gave me something to read whilst in bed last night though.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Well this was an interesting read...can't say I believed it from the start but didn't say anything in case I was just being cynical


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

It has been very entertaining and I've made some new friends through pm conversations


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## Bilai (Jun 3, 2015)

This thread has had me hooked for the last day or so. It's like watching a car crash - nothing about the OP's story sounded right.

I apologise if I'm wrong OP however after Sasha's Dad I did some hobby research on Troll psychology and this thread never felt genuine to me.


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)

Blue-BearUK said:


> I'm so glad other members had the same thoughts as me. I thought from the first few posts that this is written very similar to sashasdad..... Hmmm.
> 
> Would be interesting if the IP address could be traced easily. I guess not though.
> 
> Gave me something to read whilst in bed last night though.


This was my bedtime reading too 

Do you have a link to the sasha's thread? I'm ill here in bed and need some reading material


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## Bilai (Jun 3, 2015)

Guys the one thing I will say is that it's nice to part of a community where everyone is so sharp and yet so willing to be kind even in the face of people acting out of line.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

I actually find it genuinely quite sad/ worrying the lengths that people go to for attention.

If this is the same person, which given the writing style, the ridiculously far fetched story, indignation at not being believed (to mention but a few similarities) seems to be quite likely then clearly some help somewhere is most definitely needed.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I do agree it's important to allow for stress and emotion in anyone's initial posts. This one exceeded all expectations though - at one point I was wondering if the cat had been done for speeding


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## Blue-BearUK (Aug 11, 2015)

Rainfall said:


> This was my bedtime reading too
> 
> Do you have a link to the sasha's thread? I'm ill here in bed and need some reading material


http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/sashas-daddy-needs-your-prayers.422458/


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## Elaine b37 (May 25, 2014)

LizzieandLoca said:


> Because the police don't have more important things to do than deal with queries from people from a cat forum regarding the authenticity of ludicrous story?
> 
> Erm.... Ok then.
> 
> This is almost as bizarre as a cat bring food to its sick owner. Oh hang on, we've heard that one before too.


my thoughts exactly - I don't know whether to be amused at the complete nonsense of it all or annoyed because people on here have been genuinely concerned about 'Pixie' and sad at the thought a cat was going to be forced to live in an unhappy environment


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

I've been quite entertained but it all this morning, personally. But deep down, there's something genuinely quite disturbing about the whole thing. 

There's trolling... And there's there's going to the lengths of inventing police reference numbers, including actual names of officers and barristers, email addresses etc. Either people have way more time on their hands than I do or they are deeply troubled. Or both.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Blue-BearUK said:


> http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/sashas-daddy-needs-your-prayers.422458/


@Rainfall This was just the stunning climax of a lengthy exposition. You need to read all the posts to truly appreciate the wonder of it all.


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

Rainfall said:


> This was my bedtime reading too
> 
> Do you have a link to the sasha's thread? I'm ill here in bed and need some reading material


Have a look at this one while you're at it then. A guy wanting his cat to try weight training because it was being bullied 

http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/weight-training-for-cats.292345/

Edited - oh sorry just been back and looked at that one and it must have been edited by mods. I remember the original being longer and more amusing than what's left!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Bilai said:


> This thread has had me hooked for the last day or so. It's like watching a car crash - nothing about the OP's story sounded right.
> 
> I apologise if I'm wrong OP however after Sasha's Dad I *did some hobby research on Troll psychology* and this thread never felt genuine to me.


I don't suppose you have any links do you?

I always find the psychology aspect fascinating.

I'm a cynical old baggage & find myself being suspicious of anything posted that smells of a good drama.

I've helped uncover a fair few trolls on the dog fora, some of them are rather skilled & have maintained the facade for quite a long time, one was even posting away for years before being rumbled!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_And there's there's going to the lengths of inventing police reference numbers, including actual names of officers and barristers, email addresses etc._
You forgot the cousin who's a judge


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I wonder if @lymorelynn could confirm is the IP address is one and the same?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

ALR said:


> It's a happy ending.





Blue-BearUK said:


> I'm so glad other members had the same thoughts as me. I thought from the first few posts that this is written very similar to sashasdad..... Hmmm.
> 
> Would be interesting if the IP address could be traced easily. I guess not though.
> 
> Gave me something to read whilst in bed last night though.


I'm admin on another site and yes, I can go into the admin panel and trace the IP address.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

havoc said:


> _And there's there's going to the lengths of inventing police reference numbers, including actual names of officers and barristers, email addresses etc._
> You forgot the cousin who's a judge


The devil is in the detail


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

None of the collar numbers seem to match where they should be for the level the officer (apparently) was...interesting!


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## Cerijoanne (Jun 28, 2015)

Wow...juse read through this and my head is spinning  unreal :Banghead


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

oliviarussian said:


> The devil is in the detail


It's usually where they trip up, the clever ones can be really good though



StormyThai said:


> None of the collar numbers seem to match where they should be for the level of the officer (apparently) was...interesting!


I don't know a lot about police procedure but it seemed the lower ranks were doing a heck of a lot of the decision making


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

oliviarussian said:


> The devil is in the detail


You can say that again...and photos of back yards full of dog poo etc!


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

MiloandTazzy said:


> Did you realise that in your email to the police you starting writing as 'Charlotte' changed to writing as 'Steve' part way through and then back to 'Charlotte'?


I've just read that email again, and you are right. I didn't spot that the first time


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Meant to add: re IP address, most users show up as posting from several addresses...even the ''regulars''. I myself show up on about seven IP addresses...57 posts there, 34 posts there, two posts heaven knows where. But as some of you seem to think of one person, it should not be impossible to check the one ''suspect''.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_Did you realise that in your email to the police you starting writing as 'Charlotte' changed to writing as 'Steve' part way through and then back to 'Charlotte'?_
Trolls have some pretty serious personality disorders so slipping between personas isn't much of a surprise.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Elsiebea said:


> I've just read that email again, and you are right. I didn't spot that the first time


Me neither, but when a thread becomes so involved, you tend to skim a lot. Well spotted those who noticed that.


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)

QOTN said:


> @Rainfall This was just the stunning climax of a lengthy exposition. You need to read all the posts to truly appreciate the wonder of it all.


I just had a quick look at the thread and already feel that it has the same kind of vibe. Drama then refusing to listen to anything, mind already made up, knows a lot of people.

I totally remember the user and that there was something, and I haven't been a member for that long.


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## Elaine b37 (May 25, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> None of the collar numbers seem to match where they should be for the level the officer (apparently) was...interesting!


yes I noticed that!


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)

Calvine said:


> You can say that again...and photos of back yards full of dog poo etc!


I'm on mobile so it's fiddly to do but has someone done a Google reverse image search on the pictures posted?


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

I'm quite looking forward to the next one, its like our own mini soap opera.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Rainfall said:


> I'm on mobile so it's fiddly to do but has someone done a Google reverse image search on the pictures posted?


Yes I did that as soon as the pictures were posted but nothing came up.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Oh, I'm so so glad I'm not the only one who thought it was "that particular troll". I felt so bad, thinking I was turning too cynical in my old age, but it stunk of SD right from the start! Still, made for some entertaining reading...


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

I've just read the SD post. Oh dear!


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

carly87 said:


> Oh, I'm so so glad I'm not the only one who thought it was "that particular troll". I felt so bad, thinking I was turning too cynical in my old age, but it stunk of SD right from the start! Still, made for some entertaining reading...


I'm so gullible and I don't like to upset people so thank you for your cynicism because you saved me :Joyful


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Oh, I'm so so glad I'm not the only one who thought it was "that particular troll". I felt so bad, thinking I was turning too cynical in my old age, but it stunk of SD right from the start! Still, made for some entertaining reading...


It stank of more than SD if the photo of that back yard was anything to go by! ROFL. SD? More like DS or BS. Whoever it is should think of writing soap material for the telly...we'd all be hooked on it in no time at all.


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

I've been following this thread from the start & did think it was getting more bizarre as it went on, very entertaining though!


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## Bilai (Jun 3, 2015)

simplysardonic said:


> I don't suppose you have any links do you?
> 
> I always find the psychology aspect fascinating.
> 
> ...


Hey yeah I do have some links somewhere but I basically googled and I found a couple of pieces in the Guardian and also a piece written by Mary Beard. I'll share once I'm home this eve if you like!


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

They really should! Channel that need for their need for recognission and support into something awesome! The viewing figures would be through the roof! Although I believed none of it, I was still hooked to see what the conclusion would be!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Bilai said:


> Hey yeah I do have some links somewhere but I basically googled and I found a couple of pieces in the Guardian and also a piece written by Mary Beard. I'll share once I'm home this eve if you like!


Thankyou  will have a Google as well


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Figured this was a hoax. I'd been calling the police on and off for 4 months regarding my antisocial threatening neighbour and they were polite but essentially did nothing. Wish I'd known I could have gotten their attention by alleging they had stolen my cat! Next time.... Hah.


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

Totally agree. I was hooked. The kids have been complaining they are hungry and I'm saying hang on let me just finish reading this!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

LizzieandLoca said:


> @QOTN - great minds think alike...
> 
> I wonder how Sasha is getting on.


Sasha likely does not exist; and if she does she will be Pixie's ''alter ego'', betcher bottom dollar on that. This has been a _thriller thread_ hasn't it! And to think I used to find ''The Sopranos'' riveting. Any more excitement this weekend and that's me totally done for. (Collapses in hysterical laughter).


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2016)

Trolls are both fascinating but also like these very disturbing. 
I’m now left wondering if there is a cat in need, if there are 2 GSDs who live in shit on a roof... And I think that’s part of why they do it, a type of emotional vampirism where they suck those emotions from their targets so feed off if you will. 
I find it fascinating from a behavior nerd perspective but really disturbing personally. Need to figure out how to compartmentalize better!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Matrod said:


> I've been following this thread from the start & did think it was getting more bizarre as it went on, very entertaining though!


Understatement of the year Matrod!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

I don't know...this and the SD thread should rightly be entered in ''The Annals of Lunacy''. I'm getting ambitious now, but I think maybe a yearly prize for the most entertaining thread ... with a suitable prize of course...is a real possibility.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Trolls are both fascinating but also like these very disturbing.
> I'm now left wondering if there is a cat in need, if there are 2 GSDs who live in shit on a roof... And I think that's part of why they do it, a type of emotional vampirism where they suck those emotions from their targets so feed off if you will.
> I find it fascinating from a behavior nerd perspective but really disturbing personally. Need to figure out how to compartmentalize better!


Just having a quick look online & was interested to see the dark triad/tetrad mentioned in connection, which confirmed my suspicions that narcissism & sadism are key traits of the internet troll.

The digital age has given these types a veritable playground with a captive audience in which to run riot.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Calvine said:


> Sasha likely does not exist; (Collapses in hysterical laughter).


Exactly. I never believed in Sasha I am afraid. Even the photo for the cat caption competition seemed odd. SD seemed too old for toddlers of the own child or even the grandchild variety.

Just a tip for the future SD (Charks,) writing style is easy to detect in extended prose. Try shorter posts or completely change your style to make it more fun for us to spot.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Calvine said:


> Sasha likely does not exist; and if she does she will be Pixie's ''alter ego'', betcher bottom dollar on that. This has been a _thriller thread_ hasn't it! And to think I used to find ''The Sopranos'' riveting. Any more excitement this weekend and that's me totally done for. (Collapses in hysterical laughter).


I was thinking what on earth has happened to supercat Sasha! You must be right, she does not exist.
What is even more sickening than an invented cat is an invented husband who was at deaths door - who makes up stuff like that?
Interestingly Sasha's Dad was online last on 31st March ......


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)

This is the life of a forum dweller. Every now and then a thread comes along that just sucks you in.

I didn't believe this from the start but it's still exciting to see it to the end, especially when it all unfolds.

ompus


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

moggie14 said:


> I was thinking what on earth has happened to supercat Sasha! You must be right, she does not exist.
> What is even more sickening than an invented cat is an invented husband who was at deaths door - who makes up stuff like that?
> Interestingly Sasha's Dad was online last on 31st March ......


Poor guy was really ill wasn't he...I remember the imaginary cat was helping to nurse him. It was very moving, moggie14.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Calvine said:


> Sasha likely does not exist; and if she does she will be Pixie's ''alter ego'', betcher bottom dollar on that. This has been a _thriller thread_ hasn't it! And to think I used to find ''The Sopranos'' riveting. Any more excitement this weekend and that's me totally done for. (Collapses in hysterical laughter).


No doubt in my mind that Sasha was clearly a figment over a very disturbed imagination!

I was being somewhat flippant...


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

moggie14 said:


> I was thinking what on earth has happened to supercat Sasha! You must be right, she does not exist.
> What is even more sickening than an invented cat is an invented husband who was at deaths door - *who makes up stuff like that?*
> Interestingly Sasha's Dad was online last on 31st March ......


A male hypochondriac? If you remember SD had all sorts of illnesses before the final lung thing. Both Sasha and Sasha's mum pandered to his every need. He was so brave and caused them so much worry.


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## Elaine b37 (May 25, 2014)

when I was ill a few weeks ago I asked Cody to make me a lemsip and bring me a new box of tissues, he just looked at me with amusement and when I tried to show him Sasha's thread for inspiration he just went to sleep on my pillow!

I had to keep reading this one just to see how it would all end, I was disappointed that the SAS didn't storm the building or that Pixie didn't stage a roof top protest, it all ended with a bit of an anti-climax


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Well, I rather think if SD and this one are the same person, which is looking very likely, I think her trolling skills are definitely improving...sure SD was rumbled much earlier...when Sasha was taking someone's blood pressure if I'm not mistaken. This one was a cliff-hanger for longer; much longer.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Cerijoanne said:


> Wow...juse read through this and my head is spinning  unreal :Banghead


@Cerijoanne: you missed a real blockbuster.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2016)

There was a doozy several years ago on a breed specific forum.
The poster started out fairly inconspicuous, posted about her dogs, general questions, general answers to questions. 
Then one day her ‘husband’ posted for her saying she had had a terrible accident at work (kennels) and that some boarding pitbulls had mauled her and she was in the hospital. 
Huge compassionate, concerned reaction from the forum, an address was shared (PO box) get well cards sent, some members even sending money... 

About 3 days in I could stand it no longer, the ‘husband’ sure had a ton of time to post updates while caring for his wife in the hospital and their two very young children and 4 dogs. He also declined to share the hospital where she was saying he didn’t want to bother the hospital with an inundation of cards and get well wishes (because I guess hospitals aren’t used to that? ), and now, 3 days in, there was also no news story, and we all know that a pit bull mauling always gets a news story. 

So I called the first responder team where they were supposedly located. Nope, they hadn’t heard of any dog mauling at all. Huh... I called neighboring counties. Nope, no dog maulings. Interesting. 
I asked on the forum why would that be?
I was blasted for being a callous cynic and how could I doubt a clearly grieving husband. 
But slowly the holes started getting bigger and a few other members started doubting too. 

Long story short, it ended up being handled by the police because the people involved did receive money and goods, and that is a federal offense - internet fraud involving someone losing money. And no, no one was mauled by a pit bull. 

This was several years ago and I’m still a little sensitive to the abuse I got for daring to question the veracity of the post. It has definitely made me much more reticent to speak up even when I’m sure people are full of shit. 

Of course most of the time, you know someone is lying but it doesn’t really matter in the greater scheme of things. But playing with animal lover's emotions is cruel IMHO, and just not on....


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Elaine b37 said:


> when I was ill a few weeks ago I asked Cody to make me a lemsip and bring me a new box of tissues, he just looked at me with amusement and when I tried to show him Sasha's thread for inspiration he just went to sleep on my pillow!
> 
> I had to keep reading this one just to see how it would all end, I was disappointed that the SAS didn't storm the building or that Pixie didn't stage a roof top protest, it all ended with a bit of an anti-climax


Don't despair...there's time. It's never over until the fat lady starts to sing (or something).


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I missed SD and would have missed this if I hadn't been alerted so will someone please alert me again for the next one.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I've just been reading this on my phone (new phone )I may have pressed the report button a couple of posts back,I didn't mean to ,I'm so sorry if I have 
Cant see any mods on line but will PM Lynn incase I have.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_Long story short, it ended up being handled by the police because the people involved did receive money and goods,_
We were waiting to see if this one was going to go that way. It would have been almost logical for donations for legal fees to be next.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I agree with the rest of you - I thought there were some remarkable similarities in the prose style of both Charks and Sasha'sDad. 

As has been spotted by others, in one reply I noticed the writer started off a post writing as Charlotte, switched to being Steve, then back to Charlotte, just like Sasha'sDad used to switch between being husband and wife, from post to post. 

The clincher for me was the refusal to engage properly with Havoc or take her advice. Most people in the alleged position of the OP would have jumped at the offer of such genuine help with their dilemma..

Two things we should thank Charks for this time - 1) he kept us entertained, 2) he gave us an ending (a happy one at that!) and didn't leave us hanging! He has the marks of a good story teller, but just needs to make his details more convincing and then he will be set for a career writing for the Soaps.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Was all this a dream, I couldn't read post 1 - far too long winded for my simple brain


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## TallulahCat (Dec 31, 2015)

For a few years I was a moderator on a depression forum and naturally a mental health theme does attract some people who are unfortunately just more ill than a forum can handle. I think I have a fairly good eye for a suspicious post, but although I noticed it eventually I was taken in by this one initially. Although I never thought they were real police. Anyway it's different as a moderator you can act, but I didn't have the confidence to speak up about smelling a rat this time.

It was certainly well-written, and had me gripped. This person could be making good money as a fiction-writer instead of giving it away for free on the internet!


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Blimey that was a read and a half! 

The lengths some people go to for a bit of attention amazes me. Mind you I have been on a forum before where someone 'died' after being a very respected member for quite a while, donations, book of condolence even a flipping tree planted in their honour ....... All lies lol


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

MilleD said:


> This is becoming less believable by the second.


I'd just like to point out I said this ages ago


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Calvine said:


> Well, I rather think if SD and this one are the same person, which is looking very likely, I think her trolling skills are definitely improving...sure SD was rumbled much earlier...when Sasha was taking someone's blood pressure if I'm not mistaken. This one was a cliff-hanger for longer; much longer.


Don't forget SD made 312 posts over 5 months so quite a marathon. Even if other people did not find it so exciting I admire stamina not having much of my own. I did wonder at the time how preposterous it would become but I did not expect the pts thing.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

MilleD said:


> I'd just like to point out I said this ages ago


But did you carry on reading to the end?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

What I am now wondering is this: supposing Charks had not been rumbled, just how long would he/she have continued this charade? We had got to the point where it was agreed that Pixie could stay and not be returned to Poo Palace. Assuming we still believed it all, would we now be given occasional updates as to her progress? Photos? Vet visits? Even more buttock-clenching, nail-biting excitement when someone in a balaclava abducts her? I just am interested to know how long these people will sit it out...presumably as long as they get posts in response.


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## Alisonfoy (Mar 20, 2013)

Just catching up with the latest and tbh am shocked!

I must be in the gullible minority here, because I was completely taken in. However unbelievable it sounded in places, I know that people can sometimes get themselves into a terrible pickle, so I took everything at face value.

I am now hoping it really really was a hoax, otherwise I'd be feeling horrible for doubting the OP. Don't understand what anyone would get out of such a rouse though...

Anyway, real or not, it seems like there was a happy ending, and whether real or fiction, for that I'm thankful


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Don't forget SD made 312 posts over 5 months so quite a marathon. Even if other people did not find it so exciting I admire stamina not having much of my own. I did wonder at the time how preposterous it would become but I did not expect the pts thing.


 Think I only caught up with it when husband was in hospital (possibly on life support) and they were asking the undertaker if the cat could go in the coffin? And they knew someone who had worked for RSPCA and would PTS if regular vet wouldn't. Simply because Sasha would starve to death if he was not there. Didn't realize there had been chapters before that point.


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

I feel like starting one of my own.
I'll call it - my cat has learnt to speak english! 
As I've had him from a kitten, surely this is possible as like babies they are all capable of picking up the language they are spoken to in? ..
No?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

No!


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

:Joyful


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

QOTN said:


> But did you carry on reading to the end?


Of course! It's car crash telly innit?


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

havoc said:


> I missed SD and would have missed this if I hadn't been alerted so will someone please alert me again for the next one.


We sure will, the Sasha's dad one was a classic


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Is it wrong of me to say I really quite enjoy a good story (as long as no cats are harmed in the process).


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

Don't forget the graceb ones, although they were not elaborate like this they were entertaining 

@huckybuck no it's not wrong, I think many of us feel the same


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

My cat has learned to make my food for me because he/she/them knows I'm not safe to use a cooker because poor lil ole me might burn myself! He/she also finds objects for me on command. Why, just this morning, I said "Tango, find me that red and white striped sock I took off day before yesterday," And low and behold, he comes trotting up to me with it in his mouth a minute later, nudges my hand so that I'll know where he is, meows twice to tell me he's sorry but he could only find the pink and white striped one, not the red one, gently puts the sock right into my hands so that I won't lose it, then trots off. Clever cat!


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

We have some genius cats on here don't we? I'm off to apply for next years Britains Got Talent


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I have actually enjoyed this one in all aspects except one - some people were taken in and that concerns me. I don't think the troll honestly thought they were kidding the majority, nobody goes to that sort of trouble and includes such easily checkable tosh if they really want to be believed. In this case it didn't result in any requests for financial help but plenty do. I occasionally indulge in a bit of scam baiting and I can't believe anyone is taken in but I'm a hard hearted old cow. I would beg anyone who believed this on any level to take a lesson from it.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

What's the matter @Charks - cat got your tongue? Ahem...


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## Elsiebea (Apr 24, 2015)

I honestly thought that initially they had been taken for a ride by the police, and needed to sort it. I was getting increasing annoyed that they were reluctant to carry out the advice given and answer questions.
Of course now I know why!


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Just got back from Tesco and I'm delighted this thread is still open! I didn't expect it to be 
Mods must all be out and about enjoying their weekends. 
Must admit I kind of believed it to be begin with but was dubious. That's why I didn't post for a while. I think it's probably 'Sasha's Mum' that is the troll, don't you?


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## Cazzer (Feb 1, 2010)

Not surprised at this turn of events. Early on I started to type a response as work in a prosecutions team, but it didn't feel right, so never posted it.


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## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

Charks said:


> This is my last post.
> 
> Ring 101 and ask for PO434
> 
> Or PS498 Darnell or PC447 White or PS768 Goosey.


On a serious note, if this is all untrue (which i strongly strongly believe it to be) isn't it libel? Shouldn't someone tell Northamptonshire police about this attempt to defame their police force? Especially if any of these people do actually exist...


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Not normally a reader of posts in the cat forum, but my interest was piqued by the title and I read on. I began to feel there was something not quite right, but happy to give the poster the benefit of doubt. I really became suspicious when @havoc asked specific questions which were totally ignored and that the police were so OTT. Then the tone of the posts became more woeful rather pleas for help and suddenly it was happy every after.
Oh well, good entertainment value and helped to pass a wet and miserable morning. When do you think we can expect the next soapy thread?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Siskin said:


> Not normally a reader of posts in the cat forum, but my interest was piqued by the title and I read on. I began to feel there was something not quite right, but happy to give the poster the benefit of doubt. I really became suspicious when @havoc asked specific questions which were totally ignored and that the police were so OTT. Then the tone of the posts became more woeful rather pleas for help and suddenly it was happy every after.
> Oh well, good entertainment value and helped to pass a wet and miserable morning. When do you think we can expect the next soapy thread?


They aren't so exciting but we get them all the time in Cat Breeding. 'I don't know how or when it happened but my cat seems to be pregnant. Please tell me when the kittens are due.' And so on......


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

QOTN said:


> They aren't so exciting but we get them all the time in Cat Breeding. 'I don't know how or when it happened but my cat seems to be pregnant. Please tell me when the kittens are due.' And so on......


Similar in dog breeding, I only turned my back for a second and now she's pregnant.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2016)

Siskin said:


> Similar in dog breeding, I only turned my back for a second and now she's pregnant.


The bitch in season got out and the one dog in the neighborhood who just happened to be the same breed is the one that caught her.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Cazzer said:


> Not surprised at this turn of events. Early on I started to type a response as work in a prosecutions team, but it didn't feel right, so never posted it.


I'm so relieved to see that my "don't believe a word of this" radar is still alive and well.
I too typed out more than one reply then thought better of it and didn't post them.
Isnt it sad that because of threads like this I/we doubt every thread that has a shred of the  factor about them.


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Erenya said:


> On a serious note, if this is all untrue (which i strongly strongly believe it to be) isn't it libel? Shouldn't someone tell Northamptonshire police about this attempt to defame their police force? Especially if any of these people do actually exist...


I would think so actually.


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## Jaf (Apr 17, 2014)

Well I am obviously gullible with whatever the opposite of "rose tinted glasses" is. I totally believed that the police could be such overzealous bullies. I did think the OP was being a complete wuss though.

I had a cat called Pixie so I was worried about her. Actually I'm cross now for worrying about a made up cat!


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## Blue-BearUK (Aug 11, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Exactly. I never believed in Sasha I am afraid. Even the photo for the cat caption competition seemed odd. SD seemed too old for toddlers of the own child or even the grandchild variety.


I couldn't agree with you more. I never believed Sasha was real either. I actually made them winner of my cat caption just so I could see a photo!

I got the feeling it wouldn't be too long until we got a thread saying they've just witnessed Sasha flying 

There's actually another member on here who I don't believe even has a cat! Just call it my gut instinct lol. Hmmm....


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

I was decorating, so couldn't catch up on this sooner, I did, and then I just thought- "eh? thats all?".
Everyone involved, including the local MP responded over thursday/ friday.- sheesh that was quick. Who knew public services in the UK were so efficient?
I was this close to branding this a troll thread last night- as it was frustrating me quite a bit- but was a little wary of the backlash that could come my way.


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## AmsMam (Nov 25, 2014)

Sh N said:


> Everyone involved, including the local MP responded over thursday/ friday.- sheesh that was quick. Who knew public services in the UK were so efficient?


But they took the day off work! I'll definitely be doing that next time I need a quick response.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Ooh @Blue-BearUK you've got me intrigued now. I do like a good detective project...


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Blue-BearUK said:


> There's actually another member on here who I don't believe even has a cat! Just call it my gut instinct lol. Hmmm....


Oh I'm really intrigued now! Do they never post pics? What makes you think so?


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## Blue-BearUK (Aug 11, 2015)

LizzieandLoca said:


> Ooh @Blue-BearUK you've got me intrigued now. I do like a good detective project...


Oh it's nothing exciting like these two. At least these two make up exciting tales to share. I just simply don't believe they own a cat lol! They haven't been online on here since Feb anyway.



huckybuck said:


> Oh I'm really intrigued now! Do they never post pics? What makes you think so?


HB you know who it is. My SS lol. I'm still not over it haha. I never trusted her to begin with. I think she's posted one photo since she joined and she was just bizarre! - my opinion.

Anyway I don't want to open up a can of worms lol! I just had a feeling from the beginning....


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I know!!! 

I agree!!!!


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## pennycat (Jan 5, 2016)

LMAO just read this thread. Some people need to get a life


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## CarerQuie (Apr 23, 2015)

Good to crack open a carton of popcorn and watch developments,though!xx


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2016)

Blue-BearUK said:


> There's actually another member on here who I don't believe even has a cat! Just call it my gut instinct lol. Hmmm....


The one who changes usernames? 
(Not shosh! )


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Locking this now and if anyone has concerns about non-genuine members could you please either report them or message me.
To be honest I have followed this from the start and thought it rather a cock and bull story 
:Locktopic:Locktopic:Locktopic


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Hi @lymorelynn - it's not locked yet x


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

Yes, I smelled a rat, but didn't want to appear too cynical, so just posted a short post and then just watched the whole thing explode.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

moggie14 said:


> Hi @lymorelynn - it's not locked yet x


Ooops


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