# Ongoing Demodectic Mange



## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Hi,

I'm new to these forums but I'm looking for other people who have experience of long term demodectic mange.

I have a 3.5 year old Old English Sheepdog who was diagnosed with this condition when he was just over a year old (initially it was thought that he had dermatitis). Since then he has had several outbreaks, with the latest lasting longer than we have ever experienced before (4 months). 

He has previously been treated with Aludex baths, which he responded to well but at the moment, as he has lots of infections they can not give him the baths. He is currently on Advocate spot on treatment which he is given weekly and although he has had in excess of 8 treatments of this we are not seeing any difference in the number of demodex at all.

In the last week his mood has started to improve, he doesn't seem to be licking as much and we are finally getting on top of his infections. In spite of this, the vet has mentioned that in the long run we might be left with no option but to have him PTS. Until I know that this is the best option for him, its not even something that I will entertain.

I guess, I'm looking to find people that have had similar experiences with their dogs and what treatment has been affective. Has anyone else found the Advocate not make a difference? We previously were on Promeris which was affective and I'm starting to lose track of why and when we change things. I kind of get the impression that Advocate hasn't been around that long but its the latest thing that the veterinary colleges are endorsing.

Any advice would be very welcomed.

Louise


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

Is his skin getting wet in between applications? It will wash off easily. Demodex mites are normal inhabitants of dog skin and humans can carry them too.
I would try Groomers Vet grade EPO shampoo, soak all dog bedding in disinfectant for 24 hours before washing then on the day you change his bedding steam clean floors, carpets, bedding that can't be washed. By reducing the numbers of mites around combined with daily EPO baths it should start to help. Not sure what you feed him on but I would go for a grain free food, check the ingredients carefully as not all that look grain free actually are.
I really hope you find the answer to his problems and that he gets better quickly.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Yes, it does. We have been bathing him in between applications to try and soak the areas where the infections are bad to try and get the scabs off. I thought the Advocate was water-proof after 24 hours, but this would make sense as to why we aren't seeing any improvement. 

I will get some of that shampoo to see if it helps.

He is currently on Wainwrights Potato and Salmon which was recommended by the vets.

Thanks for your advice


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

Do you give anything to try and aid his immune system? Generalised demodex is often associated with immune deficiencies so maybe ask your vet about anything to give him a boost in that area.


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

Wainwrights Potato and Salmon has barley in it which has similar gluten to wheat and rye so may be the cause of the problem.
[email protected] Advanced Nutrition Sensitive Dog Food, JWB Lamb & Vegetable, JWB Fish and Vegetable are grain free. Orijen, Acana, Taste of the Wild or Fish 4 dogs are all grain free too.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

HannahKate said:


> Do you give anything to try and aid his immune system? Generalised demodex is often associated with immune deficiencies so maybe ask your vet about anything to give him a boost in that area.


I agree with Hannah Kate, a lot of dogs hav e demodectic mites in small numbers and it doesnt cause problems or any reactions, but in dogs that have an underlying problem with their immune system, then the demodectic mites can overtake and cause adverse effects as the dogs system cannot control the mites. It might be worth asking the vet about doing some exploratory tests.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Thanks for the replies 

It's localised Demodex that he has which is why I'm struggling to understand why its taking so long to clear up.

I've talked to the vets on many occassions about the underlying cause of the problem. We've talked about his immune system being deficient but I've been advised that there would be other issues going on if it was down to an immune deficiency. He doesnt display any symptoms of kidney, lung, heart or bowel problems which is supposedly what they would expect to see. However, he is an incredibly anxious dog and suffers from separation anxiety which I think might be the underlying cause? Either that or allergies as he only seems to get outbreaks when we get extremely cold weather....I'm not sure if I'm clutching at straws here...

I never realised that about Wainwrights. I specifically told the vets that's what we feed him and he told us that's what he would have recommended *sigh*. Thanks for the heads up. I'll look at some of the other brands that you've listed.


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

Stress (like the separation anxiety) does suppress the immune system and it might do it at a low level that could maybe allow the mites to be persistant but not to generalise or show other immune signs. Just a possibility.
Apart from that I have no idea sorry.


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## bulldog200 (Mar 14, 2011)

Hello my little jack russel cross sheepdog used to have really bad demodex and she went for aludex baths constanly ,they didnt work so the vet suggseted ,something called ivomec ,the vet said it was have her pts or try the ivomec
we decieded to go for the treatment , but for sheepdogs the treatment can be dangerous ,it can cause fits and other side effects , in ladys case it was do or die , and lucky for us she was okay and no longers suffer from it ,only if she gets very stressed out ,then the aludex baths sort her out .
Might be worth having a word with your vet about the ivomec if it comes to that descion , 
please let us know how it goes


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Hi Bulldog,

Thanks so much for your reply. Do you know if Ivomec is the same as Ivermectin, which is commonly used in the States to treat Dermodex?

I've spoken to my vet about this several times and previously he had said that this might be an option and then last time he said that its a no no. However, I've spoken to a canine dermatologist in the States who says that there is a test that you can do to see if the dog is a carrier of the gene that makes them susceptible to the side effects. I think then, following what happened with you, that if it comes to it, I will insist on the Ivomec. 

Did you have any problems getting the drug authorised for use in your dog at all? I know its not authorised for use on dogs for the treatment of demodex over here, so they have to apply for special dispensation....at least that's what I've been told! 

OllieBob, we've looked at the food and have decided to get the Fish4Dogs. It won't be until next week though as his vets bills have used up my cash until payday 

Thanks all for the advice. Its greatly appreciated.

Here's a pic of Harvey with his new BiteNot collar on


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## Doolally (Oct 12, 2010)

LouiseH said:


> Hi Bulldog,
> 
> Thanks so much for your reply. Do you know if Ivomec is the same as Ivermectin, which is commonly used in the States to treat Dermodex?
> 
> I've spoken to my vet about this several times and previously he had said that this might be an option and then last time he said that its a no no. However, I've spoken to a canine dermatologist in the States who says that there is a test that you can do to see if the dog is a carrier of the gene that makes them susceptible to the side effects. I think then, following what happened with you, that if it comes to it, I will insist on the Ivomec.


Yes Ivomec is ivermectin - I know my friend is considering it for her dog with persistent demodex despite numerous aludex baths. As you quite rightly know it can seriously affect some dogs, especially collies, so you'd have to have him tested for the MDR1 gene before using it. It's use in dogs for demodex will be off license (as in it's not been licensed for use in dogs), vets are allowed to use drugs off-license providing they have tried the licensed drugs first or they have adequate reason to believe it'll be better than the licensed drugs...so I think it's definitely worth asking your vet about.
I feel for you, it can be a complete nightmare!


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## bulldog200 (Mar 14, 2011)

LouiseH said:


> Hi Bulldog,
> 
> Thanks so much for your reply. Do you know if Ivomec is the same as Ivermectin, which is commonly used in the States to treat Dermodex?
> 
> ...


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Sorry to hear about you poor boy must be very upsetting 

I have no experience but just thought I would mention about Dermacton spray/lotion/shampoo bar.

It's from a company called Aromesse and if you look on their website and also go onto manytears website you can see that it has been effective in treating mange and itchy skin problems.

The manytears website is a dog rescue. If you click on Aromesse on the side it will take you to their stories of dogs being treated with it.

I use their ear cleaner and it's fab.

They also give you advice so you can always email them and they also offer 100% money back guarantee.

Maybe take a look?

Hope things improve- sending you poor doggie lots of healing vibes x


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

I just wanted to post a quick update (sorry, that I didn't reply to the last two thread....I thought I did but I'm obviously just going crazy!).

Harvey is really starting to make dramatic improvements and I really do think this is largely to do with this thread! He has finally stopped wearing his buster collar...after 4 months, I almost never thought I would see that day.

We have stopped bathing him in between treatments (which I think has been the big kicker!) and have just ordered some samples of Fish4Dogs.

The next thing on the list is the Demacton products. His skin is so dry now, and we need something to boost the natural oils and get moisture back into his skin.

He was back at the vets yesterday and I mentioned some of the things that we have talked about on here. He agreed that the bathing could have been causing problems as Harvey's demodex was so severe. He's glad to have all this information because as well as helping Harvey, it might help other patients in the future.

Thanks again for helping to return my happy dog to me


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## welshdoglover (Aug 31, 2009)

I'm so glad you're getting somehwere. My 11 mth old min poodle pup has it around his eyes and most treatmetns cannot be used around the eye area.

We are now using advocate every 2 weeks.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Good luck with your pup. I really do hope he clears up soon...do you have any idea what the underlying cause is? Has your vet talked to you about that side of things? 

I think I'm going to get Harvey allergy tested once he is all cleared up.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

LouiseH said:


> I just wanted to post a quick update (sorry, that I didn't reply to the last two thread....I thought I did but I'm obviously just going crazy!).
> 
> Harvey is really starting to make dramatic improvements and I really do think this is largely to do with this thread! He has finally stopped wearing his buster collar...after 4 months, I almost never thought I would see that day.
> 
> ...


That's so nice to hear and hope Harvey continues to do well and hope the Dermacton I recommended helps.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

welshdoglover said:


> I'm so glad you're getting somehwere. My 11 mth old min poodle pup has it around his eyes and most treatmetns cannot be used around the eye area.
> 
> We are now using advocate every 2 weeks.


Why don't you look at the Dermacton cream too?

I will PM you details of website.


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## Angie2011 (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi so glad to hear your baby is on the mend!! BIG HEALING VIBS!! welcome!


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Thought I would update this thread as I've had some really good advice here and this thread contains all of the background to Harvey's condition.

The latest is that he's doing really good so far as the Demodex is concerned and although they haven't done any skin scrapes of late I'm pretty sure that when they do they won't find any (fingers crossed). 

The problem now is that we are still trying to get on top of the secondary infections and as soon as we think we are getting on top of them he flares up somewhere else. At the moment, his face is the worst infected. I'm taking him back to the vets tomorrow but I'm worried that they are running out of antibiotics that they can try. So, I was wondering if anyone knows of any herbal/natural antibiotic type remedies that we can try.

Its recently been pointed out to me by several different people that he should have been referred to a skin specialists by now and that we should push for that. The problem is that we are now almost out of insurance money for him and right now can't afford the £1k+ that it will cost to take him. I'm pretty frustrated about the whole thing but hopefully, within the next couple of months I will be able to afford it but I'm worried that it might be too late.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Another update on Harvey.

The vets finally put him on steroids around 3 - 4 weeks ago (thank you so much for all your advice Goldenshadow)

And he has now gone from this









To this









Its been a long long journey for him now and to be honest there were times where I thought that he might not ever get better.
The demodectic mange led to infection after infection. He's system had been building up an immunity to much of the bacteria and so the vets had to constantly keep swapping his antibiotics. He's now getting antibiotic shots that last him for 2 weeks at a time so between this and the steroids, he's conquered the infections.

On top of all this, Harvey suffers from dermatitis so its a constant battle.

He still needs to be allergy tested but I've been advised not to get this done until he is clear of all the drugs so as not to taint the results.

We're now seriously considering moving over to the raw diet and both my husband and I are in the process of reading through all of the information. We know that we are going to do it but want to make sure that we fully understand what we are doing before switching over.

He's such a great dog and its so good to see him back to walking around constantly wagging his tail, enjoying his long walks again and enjoying life in general.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Oh that is just wonderful to see
Im so happy for you, such a handsome boy
Goldenshadow is a wondeful help for skin conditions. 

Wishing you the very best in your journey to raw feeding, both Goldenshadow and I feed raw. I highly recommend it  If you need any help and help at all please feel free to ask.



Vicki


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Wow, thats some transformation.

Must have been heartbreaking to see him in that condition.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Thanks Vicki 

I know I will have a ton of questions to ask.

Nonnie, it really has been awful. He's normally such a happy dog and to see him like that without being able to do anything made me feel useless. 

Now we just need to make sure it doesn't happen again.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Fantastic news he looks and seems so much happier hard to believe its the same dog.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

awww so pleased he is looking and feeling better.

Hope you can get this all under control now and keep us posted still on his progress


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

This is fantastic to read, it really is. I just can't believe how much he has improved in such a short space of time!

Sometimes we have got to push a bit with the vets. I don't like the idea of steroids on a regular basis etc, but when you get results like yours with Harvey and mine with Roo, who are we to complain really?! Rupert has that Fuciderm gel at the minute prescribed with instruction to just apply it as soon as I see any irritation and buster collar him to stop him getting at any sore bits. Worked like a charm on the two sores we've had appear in the last week 

Hopefully the length of steroids and antib's will give his system a really good chance to sort itself out ready for any tests he might need.

So, so pleased for you both, nice for you to be a little bit less stressed about him too!! Like Babycham says both her and myself feed a raw diet, only since this year really she is fantastic advice wise also. Any q's about raw/skin/whatever or the need to just have a whinge feel free, you've got my Facebook too don't forget (sometimes not on here for a bit but give me a prod or a poke with a link to a thread and I will reappear) :thumbup1:

x x


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

That is an amazing transformation


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## weeziewoo (Mar 23, 2011)

Oh my goodness, those pics just brought tears to my eyes.. What turnaround! Well done, such an achievement! What suffering it must have been to him and you to see him like that. Am just about to post my own thread about itchy dogs so am thrilled to have read this


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