# Dog starving to death with IBD



## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

Hi, our blue merle border collie max has been ill since late feb, symptoms started with daily sickness & diarrhoea & loss of appetite, many trips to the vets later we had blood tests, urine tests & stool tests they came up with the diagnosis that lower intestine IBD was the most likely problem but couldnt be 100% sure without a biopsy.

he has been on steroids now since april, had a course of antibiotics and picked up initially for a couple of weeks, since then he has been on a downward spiral, he is drinking fine but barely eats anything especially not dog food, the most we can generally get him to eat is a bit of meat ie sliced ham, chicken breast and a few other small bits, we were told by the vet to get anything down him that he would eat at the time but after much research online it looks like we should have got him on a grain free diet asap.

he started out at around 21kg in weight and as of today he is around 14-15 kg and looks like a bag of bones, he is still on the steroids after 4 months of being reccommended by our vet to keep him on them but we are now reducing them as they seem to have done nothing.

he is also on tylan & a probiotic tablet, 3rd full week now but again these have had no effect so far, somehow he still seems fairly ok in himself, still wants to go to the park but is now lacking in energy & just mopes around the house, he is pretty musch refusing to eat & is just spraying watery type diarrhoea every time he goes to the toilet.

can anyone suggest anything we havent tried? we are so desperate not to lose him as he is only 9 and should have many years left to come.

sorry if this is a bit long winded.


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

I'm so sorry; how awful for you.

Have you gone to another vet for a second opinion? This would definitely be my next move.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

neill70 said:


> Hi, our blue merle border collie max has been ill since late feb, symptoms started with daily sickness & diarrhoea & loss of appetite, many trips to the vets later we had blood tests, urine tests & stool tests they came up with the diagnosis that lower intestine IBD was the most likely problem but couldnt be 100% sure without a biopsy.
> 
> he has been on steroids now since april, had a course of antibiotics and picked up initially for a couple of weeks, since then he has been on a downward spiral, he is drinking fine but barely eats anything especially not dog food, the most we can generally get him to eat is a bit of meat ie sliced ham, chicken breast and a few other small bits, we were told by the vet to get anything down him that he would eat at the time but after much research online it looks like we should have got him on a grain free diet asap.
> 
> ...


Most of us are not vets and thus unable to provide skilled professional advice, however I would ask for a referral to a specialist. The cause of your dog's problems could be myriad.

Hopefully you have insurance.

Good luck


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

I would suggest getting a second opinion with another vet, a specialist would be best as Smokeybear recommends. Whereabouts are you based? Perhaps someone can recommend one near you?
Sadly, without wanting to generalize, general practice vets are not usually experts on this condition, which can be very difficult to diagnose and treat, sadly.
I would also consider consulting a recommended, sought after holistic vet. 
One of my dogs has (had, managed now) IBD and his story reads very much like your dog's, apart from that he wasn't treated with steroids. He was severely ill at one point and we thought we were going to loose him.

One thing that certainly did help and what helped us get his preliminary diagnosis and treatment underway was blood tests; specifically B12 and folate readings (the dog has to be starved for 12 hours prior to the blood draw, though given current set or circumstances, this shouldn't be an issue). Low readings (suboptiminal) come hand in hand with the IBD, though for many IBD dogs a chronic B12 deficiency is contributing to and worsening the IBD. 
Border collies can be prone to a genetic form of B12 deficiency, called Selective Cobalamine Malabsorption. This basically means that their bodies do not produce/process vitamin B12 properly and of course this negatively impacts on the IBD (which obviously they will be predisposed to). 
This is the case for my dog; he has both IBD and SCM. 

Once you have establish what folate/B12 results are, you can begin to treat that element, which should help the overall situation. Usually this means supplementing B12 by injection, though eventually once results are back within normal ranges, you can use oral supplementation (generally regarded as not that effective, but there are a few products that contain a crucial Intrinsic factor, which aids their absorption and these work very well).
After initial course of injections, my dog was on oral supplementation of B12/folate with Intrinsic factor for a long time (I always have a stock of them). 

In your case I would be considering talking very frankly to the vets about the continued use of steroids, as it is unlikely to be helping at this point. Steroids of course, suppress appetite which added to the fact that because of his IBD, eating is actually quite painful for him (IBD causes severe cramps/discomfort) will mean he is eating even less, which is why he is loosing so much weight and condition. 

Raw feeding is another thing that has greatly helped in the management of my dogs condition. Processed, commercial dog food makes my dog unwell. My, at the time, vet tried to sell me various specialist "prescription" diets (Hills, Royal Canin and the like) which my dog would not eat and looking at the ingredient list in retrospect would have only have made him even more unwell. 
I suspect the fillers used most commercial dog feed aggravate his already fragile digestive tract, whereas a natural, biologically appropriate diet without fillers or cereals does not do this. Since his initial recovery, the vast majority of his management and good health now is down to the raw feeding, of that I am certain. 
As I said before, I also highly recommend consulting a holistic vet. I personally went with Richard Allport, who was absolutely brilliant. 
In my dogs case we also found that things such as annual booster jabs and certain antibiotics would cause flare ups in his IBD (and skin). As a result my dog is now exempt from annual vaccinations (just test immunity levels). Things like this are very much worth looking into. Though your holistic vet would ask for a full medical history and will examine it in great detail to check for concerns such as these. 

There is much more detail I can add, anecdotal of stuff we used for my dog to aid his recovery (supplements and such to line the digestive tract and reduce the inflammation). Please feel free to PM if that would be of any help. 
Let us know how he gets on. I really hope things are looking better for him soon. IBD is such a horrible disease.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

neill70 said:


> Hi, our blue merle border collie max has been ill since late feb, symptoms started with daily sickness & diarrhoea & loss of appetite, many trips to the vets later we had blood tests, urine tests & stool tests they came up with the diagnosis that lower intestine IBD was the most likely problem but couldnt be 100% sure without a biopsy.
> 
> he has been on steroids now since april, had a course of antibiotics and picked up initially for a couple of weeks, since then he has been on a downward spiral, he is drinking fine but barely eats anything especially not dog food, the most we can generally get him to eat is a bit of meat ie sliced ham, chicken breast and a few other small bits, we were told by the vet to get anything down him that he would eat at the time but after much research online it looks like we should have got him on a grain free diet asap.
> 
> ...


Has the vet ever done a B12 and folate blood test? This is a specific test not included usually in the standard set of blood tests. its gut specific and will tell you how the gut is working amongst other things. If a dog has cobalamin deficiency which is vitamin B12 that can cause gastrointestinal problems. As well as gastric problems, no appetite and weight loss it will also cause lack of energy and lethargy too. Some breeds seem to have a B12 defficiency problem more then others and the Border collie is in fact one of them. It can appear at any age too. It can be caused by a variety of problems including small intestinal overgrowth as well as others that mean that they cannot absorb the vitamin B12. So if its something that hasn't been done then it may be worth running the blood test.

Only other thought have they ever checked him for pancreatitis which is inflammation of the pancreas? You can get acute a sudden attack, but you can also get whats called a chronic (ongoing version) again diagnosis is a specific blood test called a Cpl test, if they have the snap test kits the initial test can be done in house, this only tells though if it is positive or negative, should it be positive then it has to go off to the lab for the full test, or if they haven't got the inhouse snap test then it will mean going out to a laboratory first off.
Not eating and vomiting are one of the most common symptoms of pancreatitis along with other gastric symptoms. Steroids actually can make pancreatitis worse too, or even be one of the things that sets a bout off in the first place.

Steroids are used for anti inflammatory properties they also usually as a side effect encourage appetite and increased thirst, they are often used to treat IBD for this reason, so it does seem suspect in itself that it is doing nothing if he has supposed IBD, he should in theory have an improvement while on them at least. One of the causes of IBD can be small intestinal bacteria overgrowth. SIBO can be a condition on its own or it can sometimes come secondary with other problems. It usually responds to antibiotics but you often need specific ones and a prolonged course sometimes up to 4 weeks. As he from what you say, seemed to be inititally better after a course of antibiotics that also makes me wonder if that could be part of the problem but the course wasn't long enough or if he has it could it be secondary to something else and they haven't found the root cause.

You didn't mention what blood tests they have actually done and they may have done these and they have already been excluded, but if they haven't it may at least be some help.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm sorry you're having such a problem with your poor boy. Firstly, I agree with others than perhaps you might talk to your vet about stopping the steroids and seeing if that makes a difference to his appetite or getting a second opinion as they can't be certain what the actual problem is. Our elderly dog has Cushings Diseases which has twice caused her to have pancreatitis and a year ago, we were at our wits end as to what to give her to eat which wouldn't bring on the pancreatitis and its associated problems. After trying a few foods which didn't work, we tried Burns Penlan Chicken and Rice which turned out to be our miracle food, it doesn't ever make her sick and she produces good stools. However, when we started, we went by the guidelines as to how much to give her but after a few months, she seemed to be wasting away and our vet thought it was curtains and, although she didn't say it, I knew she was thinking she should be pts. We weren't ready for that so we decided to increase the amount of Burns food, plus we added a supplement, Biotic Biotin, to it and gradually we noticed a difference as her weight increased until she is now back to normal and we never have any gastro problems at all. I realise your situation is different but, obviously, you need to get your dog to eat and Burns food does seem to be good for a lot of digestive and gastro problems in dogs.


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## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks for all the advice guys, i will try to answer some questions.

he has had 2 blood tests done 1 when this first started & 1 a couple of weeks ago, not sure offhand what they tested for but as far as i am aware they did every possible test they could first time around & determined the problem was in the lower intestine.

we initially suspected pancreatitis due to the symptoms but the vet ruled this out, should say the sickness stopped a while ago but the diarrhoea has been a constant apart from the odd occasion when it firmed up.

i did call another vet when we were getting frustrated that nothing seemed to be working & they did say they would have gone down exactly the same route as our current vets.

regarding food he is eating so little now i am surprised he is still on his feet, my wife had to force feed him some baby food this morning, we have got some taste of the wild kibble which has been reccommended but he wont touch this or raw food, since this began we have really struggled to get him to eat any sort of kibble, trouble is if we introduce something new he has been eating it once then turning away from it next go.

we have tried many different kibble & wet dog foods, but we are at the point where he is refusing pretty much everything, the only semi regular thing he seems to eat now is a bit of cooked chicken/ham/beef which i know is not great but i cant see how much longer he can hang on if not eating anything at all.

we are in ilkeston, Derbyshire if anyone can reccommend a specialst/ holistic vet in the area?

we have been advised the biopsy would be the only sure way to 100% determine the problem but they wouldnt want to do this now because of his weight loss / condition.

next step is to have an ultrasound which hopefully we can get done ths week,
unfortunately we dont have insurance as we have 7 rescue dogs & cant really afford to cover them all on an ongoing basis, kindly our vets have set up a payment plan for us on a monthly basis.

we are cutting the steroids down now to stop them completely as after 4 months there is no improvement, i read an older post on here of someone who had a similair problem & ended up using pro kolin, sulfasalazoid (i think) & trimicare with great results, we have asked our vets who said the way things are going we have nothing to lose trying this so fingers crossed as we really think this may be his last chance.


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## kateh8888 (Aug 9, 2011)

I am sorry you are going through this. We too experienced this with our boy when he was only 1 year old. We almost lost him.

As others have mentioned, I obviously wouldn't be able to offer any veterinary advice but I will share what we found helpful when he was diagnosed with IBD.

Aside from putting him on steroids (which he is no longer on), we started giving him slippery elm, L Glutamine and a probiotic called VSL#3. We also started him on a 100% raw diet (mainly chicken). Before introducing this diet he would not eat. We literally were trying to force it down him. Obviously, please do not introduce anything without advice from your vet.

The most important thing we learnt was not to feed anything the dog may have had whilst they were ill. They would effectively be allergic to it.

We also joined an IBD group in Yahoo groups where we found a large group of really helpful people with lots of experience. You can find it here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/IBDogs/info

I really hope things start to improve soon.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

You could actually be talking about my Collie I had every test going and the results were his immune system the treatment was a massive dose of antibiotics followed with a small dose daily for the rest of his life,I also gave him Dorwest Tree Bark powder daily his diet was Salmon and Potato kibble with a small amount of cooked chicken,I could never take him off the daily antiboitics but he lived to a ripe old age of 14.Good luck.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

There is a liquid dog food that you can get, that's used for recouperating dogs and its also safe to use on dogs with CRF. It may be worth a try if he is still drinking as you said its called liquivite details are on the link.

Liquid food - Ideal for weaning kittens or puppies. Also appeals to the sick or older cat or dog

Not knowing which blood tests they have done its hard to comment but it may have just been the normal standard hemotology and biochemistry, it certainly wouldn't hurt to suggest the B12 and Folate blood test just in case they haven't done it.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

suewhite said:


> You could actually be talking about my Collie I had every test going and the results were his immune system the treatment was a massive dose of antibiotics followed with a small dose daily for the rest of his life,I also gave him Dorwest Tree Bark powder daily his diet was Salmon and Potato kibble with a small amount of cooked chicken,I could never take him off the daily antiboitics but he lived to a ripe old age of 14.Good luck.


Do you know if it was an immunoglobulin deficiency Sue? There are different immunoglobulins that protect different things and lack of certain ones leaves them open to continued types of infection causing different symptoms. I know it can be a problem in some breeds the Weim being one, not sure about a high incidence in collies, but if you want to mention it to the vet details are below:-

Disorder - Immunoglobulin A deficiency in Dogs
Organ Systems Involved
Immune

Alternative Names
IgA deficiency

Brief Description
Levels of Immunoglobulin A (IgA) - proteins in the blood important to immune system functioning - are significantly reduced or absent in the mucus-covered surfaces of the respiratory, genital and intestinal tracts. IgA normally provides protection in these areas against bacteria and viruses that attempt to attach.
Presenting Signs
The decreased protective ability of the immune system means that affected animals are predisposed to bacterial and viral infections. These dogs are generally in a state of hypersensitivity to allergy-causing substances in the environment. The four most common problems presented in IgA deficient dogs are · a high incidence of recurring upper respiratory tract infections, which may present as difficulty breathing, especially following exertion · gastrointestinal disease, often recognised by excessive continual vomiting or diarrhoea · skin diseases and · inflammation of the ear canal (otitis externa). Dogs may also show a food allergy or flea allergy. Less well documented is recurring parvovirus enteritis (a disease of the gastrointestinal tract against which dogs are vaccinated), despite immunisations, and hypothyroidism, which is a metabolic disorder presenting as weight gain and lethargy. There are also cases, especially in older dogs, where despite the deficiency, animals show no symptoms.

Disorder - Immunoglobulin G deficiency
Organ Systems Involved
Immune

Alternative Names
IgG deficiency

Brief Description
Immunoglobulin G (IgG) is one of a group of blood proteins that function in the immune system, fighting infection and disease. Dogs with IgG deficiency are therefore susceptible to a number of diseases. 
Presenting Signs
IgG deficiency is characterised by lower than normal levels of the antibody immunoglobulin G. There are a number of different types of immunoglobulins in the body and immunoglobulins A and M may also be significantly lower with IgG deficiency. The symptoms of this disorder may be many and varied, however a typical signs is recurrent episodes of infection. Clinical signs may involve the gastrointestinal tract, joints, lymph nodes, central nervous system, skin and eyes. In many cases, symptoms such as vomiting and diarrhoea are treatable, however the underlying cause, IgG deficiency, will persist. Dogs with IgG deficiency that die prematurely usually do so from a secondary disease, as their immune system is not sufficient to fight infection.

Disorder - Immunoglobulin M deficiency
Organ Systems Involved
Immune

Alternative Names
IgM deficiency

Brief Description
A susceptibility to infection related to poor production of antibodies useful in the early stages of an immune response


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Worth trying ?
Arden Grange Partners Appetite Plus Rich in Chicken Dog Food


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

The link to homeopathic vets is here

British Association of Homeopathic Veterinary Surgeons | Working to advance the understanding, knowledge and practice of veterinary homeopathy

Herbal Vets

British Association of Veterinary Herbalists


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## totallypets (Dec 30, 2011)

With one of my clients dogs who was diagnosed with IBD they had to put him on an elimination diet along with steroids and antibiotics which were reduced over time. The specialist said to use potato or sweet potato and either cooked duck, rabbit or venison. They chose duck and potato and he ate this exclusively for a good few months before they transitioned him on to a hypo allergenic kibble and then subsequently to raw. 

Prior to that he was very picky and often refused to eat. With hind sight it seemed like he was aware that the food made him ill as when he had flare ups he would no longer eat the food that he was eating when it occurred.

I hope things get better for Max.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Do you know if it was an immunoglobulin deficiency Sue? There are different immunoglobulins that protect different things and lack of certain ones leaves them open to continued types of infection causing different symptoms. I know it can be a problem in some breeds the Weim being one, not sure about a high incidence in collies, but if you want to mention it to the vet details are below:-
> 
> Disorder - Immunoglobulin A deficiency in Dogs
> Organ Systems Involved
> ...


Yes think it was I had to give him Folic acid tablet as well and after diagnoses he could never have his boosters as made him so ill vet said because of his immune system.xx


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## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

once again thanks for all the replies / ideas.

the B12 & folate blood tests ring a bell but i would need to check to make sure.

we may try the liquid food but have tried him with some homemade & tinned soup with very little joy.

i have read that sweet potato, pumpkin and a new protien source would be a good food to start him on, we got some sweet potato last night but he wouldnt touch it (as with most food now) i will see what we can get from the local butcher tomorrow meat wise for him, i take it we should be cooking anything new we try him with for now?

as for his previous eating habbits he has been with us for just over 8 years and never had any eating problems & allways had a great appetite, we have fed him & the others on a diet of mainly kibble & a small amount of wet food to give it a bit of flavour plus the usual dog biscuits/treats.

i think the biggest immidiate problem is getting him to eat anything, he definately looks like he wants to as he has a good sniff, licks his lips but then turns away.

he is going for an ultrasound tomorrow so we shall see if that turns anything more up.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I wouldn't be hasty in stopping the steroids as they often have the effect of increasing the appetite. If you stop them his appetite may actually get worse.

Of course, don't take my word for it. Check with your vet first.

Sounds like an awful situation. I hope things begin to look up soon.


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## LaceWing (Mar 18, 2014)

Lots of good info here. If you are giving him probiotics, have you tried kefir? I found one of our sick dogs did much better with kefir than with commercial probiotics. Kefir has 32 probiotics. It is made with milk, but the kefir grains use lactose, so there will be no lactose in it.

I second going to the holistic vet. All of my sick dogs have done so well on a raw diet.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

My Jack Russell, Rosie, has IBD, but nowhere near as severe as your poor dog and some of the others on this thread.

She's only treated when she has a flare up with steroids. My Vet did tell me to give her Buscopan, which seemed to help her a lot with the pain.

Rosie would never eat a thing, wouldn't even look at food, when she was having a flare up of her symptoms.

The very best of luck.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Hi again OP,

I think in terms of checking what blood work he has had done, if he were mine I'd make 100% sure that the B12/folate ones had been taken (accurately too, remember the dog has to be fasted 12 hours prior to the blood being drawn for the results to be reliable).

Once you've checked that and decided on how to treat any problem that might be existent there, you'll need to come up with a plan to get him eating very small meals multiple times daily (when mine was at his sickest, he was being fed 4 to 6 times daily).

I still would want to be discussing the steroid use with the vets. I know many point out that it is generally used to increase appetite, but unfortunately it isn't always effective as an appetite stimulant and can have the opposite effect; as I mentioned, there are cases were steroid use, consequential symptoms, combined with symptoms caused by the condition cause decreased appetite. Similarly prolonged use of steroids does take its toll on the body and the dogs immune system which won't be helping the dog fight the existent disease (IBD, inflammed digestive tract) and consequential secondary conditions. Given he has lost so much weight and condition, I think you need to be regularly evaluating how and whether to manage with steroids (with the vet).

Priorities are the moment are to make sure he is sufficiently hydrated and if at all possible eating consistently (something very palatable which will allow his highly inflamed digestive tract to recover). 
You may find that the vet will be able to provide rehydration sachets, which work being replacing lost fluids and electrolytes.

You will need to be cooking something very bland and appetizing for him to eat. Boiled chicken and a small amount of mashed potato and pureed veggies (carrots and peas). Mixing the left over chicken stock with the blitzed veggies to make the puree works well. To this, you can add the necesary dose of diarsanyl which is a paste that can add to food, which overtime should coat the intenstinal walls and allow them to recover from the inflammation. This should help reduce the pain he experiences when eating and processing food and so with time his appetite should return. 
The idea is that you feed him these very bland, small regular meals for as long as necessary (at his sickest, mine was fed like this for a good six weeks, though we cut down the meal frequency and could very carefully start to add variety). Have a chat to your vet about diarsanyl or similar:

Diarsanyl Plus / Products list / Products / Ceva United Kingdom - CEVA United Kingdom

As others have mentioned, stuff like tree bark powder can be very useful for managing IBD, once more stabilized. 
Only once you have got him eating regularly, some weight back on, pain under control and B12 treated if it needs to be, would I start changing him onto a raw diet (which will be the best thing for him in the long term, but just at the moment you've got to get him more stable).


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

These links have lots of resources that may be of help

DogAware.com Health: Digestive Disorders in Dogs

Holistic, natural remedies for dogs and cats., Natural nutrition, food and supplemements for dogs, cats and horses.
To access the most valuable articles on WDJ you have to be a subscriber but it is not expensive and very well worth it. IMHO

Search Results - Whole Dog Journal


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

ho hum, just written a long post and it's been deleted...

I would, based on our ongoing stomach problems with Pickles, get the B12/folate test done if you haven't already. If you have, please ask the vet for his results and post them on here. It would rule out EPI or SIBO, or diagnose it. 

Pickles lost 3 kg within the Christmas / Jan period. He's been diagnosed with small intestine bacterial overload (SIBO) and we've managed to put the weight back on. He still has flare ups, but it seems more manageable now. It took us months to find a food that agreed- Arden Grange sensitive wet. Also, we found keeping a diary really useful, with weight checks,areas walked, food eaten (when he does) to look at and try to see patterns. 

Good luck,


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

So sorry to hear your boy's going through this - Maisie had the most horrendous tum when I got her & it took many months to get it sorted so I really do feel for you - she has Colitis, and I have Crohn's, so I'm all too familiar with it unfortunately



Dubuss said:


> It took us months to find a food that agreed- Arden Grange sensitive wet. Also, we found keeping a diary really useful, with weight checks,areas walked, food eaten (when he does) to look at and try to see patterns.


A food / walking diary is an absolute godsend (I actually still do it with Maisie just to see if I can track patterns when she has an upset)

Like humans (my dad also has Crohn's and he can eat stuff I can't and vise-versa) it is very individual and does take time to find something that agrees with them

Ideally, start with one food ie chicken or fish or 'whatever you know agrees with him' and start trying a couple of foods based on that. Then you can introduce one new ingredient & see what happens. Any upsets, back to your base food (which was fish for us)

I've finally found a kibble that suits her & have even made improvements in the past couple of months by swapping the kibble / wet ratio over - so it does take a long time & is incredibly frustrating

There's a lot of good quality wet foods out there & hopefully there will be something to tempt him & agree with him

Can you give an idea of what foods he is def OK with and we can maybe come up with some suggestions


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Seems to me that there is more going on than IBD. IBD doesn't normally stop a dog eating.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

rona said:


> Seems to me that there is more going on than IBD.* IBD doesn't normally stop a dog eating.*


That's not actually true sadly  IBD alone very often does cause anorexia. 
The inflammation of the small intestine and irritation of the intestinal wall (which is often what causes blood in the diaorrea) which worsens with eating anything which isn't very bland prior to treatment causes severe stomach cramps and pain. This causes the dog's avoidance of eating; usually they are very hungry and will show interest in the food, but not eat it because of the pain involved. 
This is why new food types can sometimes tempt them to eat the first time, but after subsequent pain, they seem not to want to eat that food type again (although show interest).

Anorexia is even more common when the B12 deficiency element is present. Suboptimal B12 levels are very often correlated with behavioural changes such as increased and sudden acute anxiety. Many pet owners report a difference in their pets general demeanor as soon as 30 minutes after B12 supplementation (intravenous). As the supplementation course is underway and B12 levels begin to return to normal levels, anxiety levels tend to decrease and provided the IBD is also being retreated, anorexic behaviour becomes less likely and tends to fade (dog is in less pain, learnt experiences change- dog learns he can eat without pain as intestines recover, overall anxiety better)


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## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

Lilylass said:


> So sorry to hear your boy's going through this - Maisie had the most horrendous tum when I got her & it took many months to get it sorted so I really do feel for you - she has Colitis, and I have Crohn's, so I'm all too familiar with it unfortunately
> 
> A food / walking diary is an absolute godsend (I actually still do it with Maisie just to see if I can track patterns when she has an upset)
> 
> ...


at the moment nothing agrees with him & we are literally having to force feed him (mashed up brown rice, sweet potato, chicken & a bit of veg) several small meals a day, though his drinking is as normal.

the B12 test was done on the first set of tests and was on the low side of normal, the vats can offer a course of B12 injections, i will be speaking to them today about this & his overall condition.

not sure aboute the folate test, i think so but will confirm with the vet when they call me.

the most frustrating thing is his lack of response to any medication / diet changes we have tried when most of the cases i have found & read about at least report this to be a managable condition but we cant gain any ground with max.

we are very worried now that we are going to lose him in the very near futre as surely he cant take losing any more weight, all his fat & muscle have gone, i wish i had found this site a month or two ago while he was still eating something!

at the end of the day i am not going to let max starve himself to death but at the same time i dont want to think about euthinasia to early.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

I have to admit that in your shoes I'd be cutting out the carbs etc and just sticking to plain meat.

If he's not eating much then make sure the little he is eating is the most nutritious and easiest to digest for a predominantly carnivorous animal.

I sympathise though. We had a dog who couldn't tolerate meat at all in his last year and practically nothing but Royal Canin Sensitivity Control in the previous few years of his life.

Have you tried tinned Chappie? Most dogs go mad for it, and it might stimulate his appetite. Worked for our Jack when eventually the Sensitivity Control stopped working.

I would also give one of the prescription diets a go if you can get him to eat them. On paper they are awful ingredients, but they do work. Even if it just gives you a base to start with.

Does he/can he eat tinned fish? Very few dogs turn their nose up at pilchards/sardines/salmon/mackeral etc - and as they're so strong smelling they could be a useful mixer to disguise any food he's previously been turned off of.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Its still a lot of different foods fed together - if any single one disagree with him then that will still cause upset tum

You need to do a proper.elimination diet -,starting with only one food and finding something that agrees with him. Something like fish or chicken (I'd start with fish as some dogs can't tolerate.chicken)

Check food labels really carefully - I went to try a chicken & rice one not too long ago & there was beef hidden in it!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

lemmsy said:


> That's not actually true sadly  IBD alone very often does cause anorexia.
> The inflammation of the small intestine and irritation of the intestinal wall (which is often what causes blood in the diaorrea) which worsens with eating anything which isn't very bland prior to treatment causes severe stomach cramps and pain. This causes the dog's avoidance of eating; usually they are very hungry and will show interest in the food, but not eat it because of the pain involved.
> This is why new food types can sometimes tempt them to eat the first time, but after subsequent pain, they seem not to want to eat that food type again (although show interest).
> 
> Anorexia is even more common when the B12 deficiency element is present. Suboptimal B12 levels are very often correlated with behavioural changes such as increased and sudden acute anxiety. Many pet owners report a difference in their pets general demeanor as soon as 30 minutes after B12 supplementation (intravenous). As the supplementation course is underway and B12 levels begin to return to normal levels, anxiety levels tend to decrease and provided the IBD is also being retreated, anorexic behaviour becomes less likely and tends to fade (dog is in less pain, learnt experiences change- dog learns he can eat without pain as intestines recover, overall anxiety better)


That's very odd as Muddy had IBD to the point of becoming a skeleton on legs and has B12 deficiency, throughout all (7 years) he has had a voracious appetite. In fact it's part of the reason it has been so difficult to control, as he will eat virtually anything remotely edible


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Lilylass said:


> Its still a lot of different foods fed together - if any single one disagree with him then that will still cause upset tum
> 
> You need to do a proper.elimination diet -,starting with only one food and finding something that agrees with him. Something like fish or chicken (I'd start with fish as some dogs can't tolerate.chicken)
> 
> Check food labels really carefully - I went to try a chicken & rice one not too long ago & there was beef hidden in it!


Couldn't agree with this more though it's obviously more difficult with a dog that won't eat.

Until you know what's causing the issue, you should only be feeding one foodstuff at any one time.

Chappie original tinned sorted Muddy out but may not be the thing for yours.

Until you find what triggers it you are fighting a losing battle. Believe me I know!!


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## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

he wont eat anything by himself since monday & before that it was next to nothing.

list of foods tried below

wet dog food, multiple flavours/ brands, refusing
dry dog food, multiple flavours/ brands from cheap to high end, refusing
tuna, ate at the start of this but now refusing
white fish, allways refused
cooked chicken, now refusing
tinned chappie, allways refused
royal canine sensitive tinned, refusing
he has throughout this fairly constantly eaten sliced ham, chicken & beef
but again is now refusing all of these.

my wife tried to get some duck / rabbit / venison from the local butcher this morning as he has never had any of these to be told thay are seasonal and they dont have any???

i will try tesco on my way home, hopefully they should at least have some duck, i will also pick up some different types of tinned fish as we have only tried tuna up to now, i will also look at the prescription diets but as mentioned
we are only able to force feed him mush at the moment.

thanks again for the ideas.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi

Just a thought....ask your vet about trying an antiemetic ( aka anti-nausea) medication and see whether this will help his appetite. Sometimes an antiemetic can have near miraculous effects as the dog, suddenly, no longer feeling permanently queasy and nauseous, starts eating again with gusto. Which, in turn, returns their strength and energy.

Anti-emetics come as injections & tablets, probably the most well known being "Cerenia". NB the injection of Cerenia stings! But I have got a notion that it is also available in tablet form.

The other thing worth discussing with your vet - if his tentative diagnosis of IBS is correct - would be to try "Buscopan". It is a human OTC medication and often used by vets off label for their canine IBS patients. This med has 2 huge bonuses : firstly, the pill is tiny so no wrestling with a reluctant eater is eliminated and secondly, the stuff works. And works fast. Oh, and 3...it is inexpensive. My vet ( an IBS sufferer herself) prescribes it to all her IBS patients with huge success. I used it when my boy developed IBS symptoms - side effect from having alimentary lymphoma - and I would have happily included the manufacturer in my will.

And lastly...as another poster mentioned previously....have they DEFINITELY ruled out EPI ( endocrine pancreatic insufficiency)? Well worth doing.

Do consider the vitamin B 12 shot...even if he is only borderline. It is inexpensive ( I think I paid around £ 7.00 x injection), doesn't sting, and a great pick-me-up for a fatigued, run down, feeling dog ( or human).

All the best & fingers crossed for you


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## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

weve had the anti nausea with no effect, will talk to the vet about the Buscopan, we have been quoted £68.00 for 4 x once a week injections for the B12 which looks extremw if you only paid around £7 for yours but i will get him in asap for this as we are desperate for anything to work.

EPI was definately ruled out.

just a thought would vitamin tablets do the same job as the injection or not work due to the internal problems he is having?


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

neill70 said:


> he wont eat anything by himself since monday & before that it was next to nothing.
> 
> list of foods tried below
> 
> ...


Sorry as I know this will seem like I'm being a total PITA and pedantic BUT believe me, it stems from spending the best part of a year doing an elimination diet with Maisie AND still trying to find a decent rotation of foods for her 

What brands .... what flavours .... did you try one only flavour of one only brand for say 2 weeks (and feed only that)?

Did these include potato / or wheat / or rice etc?

Where do you get your pet stuff? (this might seem silly but bear with me) - if the supermarket and you've only tried stuff from there - there's loads you haven't tried I'm afraid.

What about things like Nature Menu, Porta21, Rocco Sensible, Integra etc - have you tried all of these?

You do literally need to feed one food source eg chicken for a couple of weeks & then if everything is OK add in say a little rice and see what happens and then remove the rice and try a little potato instead - it literally is one food at a time, always returning to the 'base' food in between & it is a very slow process unfortunately

Feeding a complete food from a tin or kibble is really difficult at the start as there will be multiple ingredients in them so you will have no idea what could be causing the upset

Sorry if I'm coming on a bit strong but, honestly, elimination by one ingredient at a time is really the only way to do it with as severe a case of IBD

Now ..... obviously that's even harder if he's refusing food

I'm wondering if there was a trigger ie he may now be expecting pain when he eats (others would be better to advise on how to respond to this as not got experience of this myself)

Suggestions .... fish - you can buy white fish relatively cheaply frozen at the supermarket - how were you giving it before? Try different ways of cooking it - poaching in a little (probably safer with Lactofree) milk / what about in a cheesy sauce (ok not great long term but short term to get him to eat it would be fine) .... Tins - most dogs love things like sardines, pilchards etc

I'd avoid anything in tomato sauce (or rinse off as much as you can) as that can be a common cause of upset tums

Have you tried eggs? Again, loved by most & a good source of protein


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Buscopan is what we use for Muddy when he has a flare up.


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## VictoriaD (Jul 2, 2014)

Hi Neil,

I'm not a vet but a nutritionist. I assume the vet has checked his kidneys and they're fine?

It's difficult to advise on what to feed him without a diagnosis because some things could irritate / worsen the situation. Here are some pointers on what to consider: allergies, other health problems, medication. Where there any changes in February that could be a factor: change of diet, grooming product (e.g. shampoo) vaccinations, worming, dog treats?

Dietary advice: bland diet of boiled white fish or chicken with cooked potatoes split into several small meals over the day. Put some apple cider vinegar (raw & unpasturised) in his drinking water - it's an antimicrobial and recommended for chronic fatigue and is safe to be given no matter what medication / condition an animal has (as long as he's not allergic to apples).

Assuming he's not allergic to yeast, and, if you can get it into him, try and feed him about 1tsp per day of brewers yeast - it's a complete protein and full of B vitamins including B12 and Biotin and will give him energy. Spirulina (1/4 tsp) is similar and also worth considering.

Any type of omega 3 oil (salmon oil, cod liver oil or flaxseed oil) is good for putting weight on. Start supplementing at 5ml per day.

Ginger (powder-form is fine) is a natural antihistamine and well known anti-nausea with no side effects - he may not eat it though.

I hope this is of help. Email me if you would like more details: [email protected]

Best wishes, Victoria

PS If it is IBD, Aloe Vera juice may relieve the discomfort. Also of use is marshmallow and psyllium husk - your local health food store should be able to advise.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

neill70 said:


> weve had the anti nausea with no effect, will talk to the vet about the Buscopan, we have been quoted £68.00 for 4 x once a week injections for the B12 which looks extremw if you only paid around £7 for yours but i will get him in asap for this as we are desperate for anything to work.
> 
> EPI was definately ruled out.
> 
> just a thought would vitamin tablets do the same job as the injection or not work due to the internal problems he is having?


Not a vet....but my (experienced) laymans opinion is that, owing to the gut issue, the tablet would go straight through him before they had a chance for anything beneficial to be absorbed.

Have a look at the Buscopan info online and be sure to discuss it as a treatment option with your vet.

https://www.buscopan.com/about_abdominal_pain/overview.html

And
https://www.buscopan.com/about_abdominal_pain/irritable_bowel_syndrome/introduction.html

My experience with this tiny pill was wholly positive. Within 15 - 20 min of administration, my dog's whole body ...and in particular the abdomen area....visibly and very noticeably relaxed. From what I understand, the drug slows down and regulates the motility of the gut and counteracts cramps and spasms. Whatever the specific action - it was a godsend for my lad.

But, as I said, for him the IBS symptoms and lack of appetite were secondary to the main culprit and cause ...which in his case was cancer. Since due to his age and the location if the cancer nothing could be done to address the primary cause, my vet and I focused on achieving the optimum quality of life. And I belive we succeeded.

Completely different question- I presume you/your vet already ruled out all manner of other stuff....like Giardia. Or tick born diseases?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

rona said:


> That's very odd as Muddy had IBD to the point of becoming a skeleton on legs and has B12 deficiency, throughout all (7 years) he has had a voracious appetite. In fact it's part of the reason it has been so difficult to control, as he will eat virtually anything remotely edible


I wonder if symptoms can vary, depending on which area of the bowel is inflamed?

Rosie's problem is large intestine and when she has a flare up, she's in such intense pain that she won't even look at food, whatever's on offer.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

Forgot one thing:

I am REALLY hot on optiumum nutrition and diet...but desperate times call for desperate measures.

THE most pertinant goal currently, if I understand you correctly, is to get ANY form of nutrition and food into your dog. And whenever my dogs went through such an acute period of inappetite EVERY usual rule of good nourishment flew out of the window. With the full sanctioning of my vets, incidentally.

If all they favoured eating was Bonios or shortbread biscuits or Fairy cakes...that is what they got. If the only thing which enticed them was wet cat food or cooked beef or smoked salmon, that is exactly what I gave them. And usually, what they gleefully ate one day, they would turn up their nose on the next. So I offered a HUGE smorgasboard of different things.

The most nutritionally fabulous diet is worth nothing if the dog doesn't eat it. And the more of an issue you make about food or eating, the more leary and averse they usually get. Which is why I'd just nonchalantly offer something and if they didn't want it I'd just wordlessly and calmly ditched it. No/low stress is imperative.

Tip: have you tried throwing the food? Like a ball or a toy, I mean. Worth a try - throwing it often primes their prey thrive and turns it into a game. Even my terminally ill guys still tottered after thrown treats and food especially when accompanied by " go find it, quick".

As I said....desperate times, desperate measures.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

neill70 said:


> weve had the anti nausea with no effect, will talk to the vet about the Buscopan, we have been quoted £68.00 for 4 x once a week injections for the B12 which looks extremw if you only paid around £7 for yours but i will get him in asap for this as we are desperate for anything to work.
> 
> EPI was definately ruled out.
> 
> just a thought would vitamin tablets do the same job as the injection or not work due to the internal problems he is having?


There can be different reasons why B12 cant be absorbed from food or oral tablets naturally so that is often why the injections are given.

To be absorbed vitamin B12 has to combine with something called intrinsic factor. Intrinsic factor is made by the lining of the stomach. The B12 combines with the instinsic factor in the stomach and then both are absorbed by the body in the small intestine. Certain gut diseases depending on where the problem occurs in the system can either stop the B12 being absorbed or can stop the production of Instrinsic factor. Without Instrinsic factor then the B12 cant be absorbed either.

In humans and I don't see why dogs should be much different there is a condition where the body makes antibodies against its own intrinsic factor or against the cells in the stomach that make instrinsic factor meaning ether you cant produce it or it destroys the intrinsic factor itself. No intrinsic factor then no absorption of B12. The condition in humans that can cause this is called pernicious anemia. As said though various gut and stomach disorders can also cause the inability to absorb vitamin B12 too. Dogs can get pernicious anemia too, the red blood cells become over enlarged and you get something called a high MCV count. Certain breeds can be more prone too it then others.
You do get inability to eat and also diarrhoea, what also often happens is they have sore mouths and tounges and I noticed you mentioned she sometimes looks like she wants to eat and then turns her head away.

If she did come back with a low B12 then it does look suspect that something is going on gut wise. May certainly be worth running the B12 again and also a folate, and maybe even instrinsic factor or even a MCV count. 
In humans who have pernicious anemia they also a lot of the time have other auto immune diseases like hypo thyroid low thyroid hormone production and addisons disease low production of things like cortisol which dogs can get too.

Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth can also cause gut problems, and as she responded or at least initially to a course of antibiotics that may even be the simple answer, and she just needs a longer course and specific antibiotics.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Sweety said:


> I wonder if symptoms can vary, depending on which area of the bowel is inflamed?
> 
> Rosie's problem is large intestine and when she has a flare up, she's in such intense pain that she won't even look at food, whatever's on offer.


Yes IBD is really an umbrella term covering a myriad of symptoms caused by an underlying condition.

There are so many different issues that need to be eliminated which need to be worked through in a systematic fashion by a specialist rather than guesswork.

It may even need more than one specialist.

I feel for your OP as it must be dreadful especially as you are not insured which limits your options.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> I feel for your OP as it must be dreadful especially as you are not insured which limits your options.


I dread to think how much Muddy has cost us over the years. I know it's over £7000 and it's probably considerably more


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## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

A few thoughts I've had reading this. I know next to nothing but if you're looking for ideas, perhaps it may help... 

Is it definitely just IBD? One of my dad's dogs once had an intestinal blockage which caused her to stop eating and lose weight. Mind you it sounds like this has been going on for a while, so probably not that. 

Have you tried raw green tripe? Pets at Home sell it frozen. It's smelly which may help encourage him to eat? Defrost before feeding for more smell. 

Have you tried stuffing food in a Kong and freezing it? Perhaps licking at his food rather than chewing and swallowing as he's used to may help. 

These are just things I'd be thinking about in your situation, without your experience, so I'm sorry if they're useless. I hope it all comes right for you.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Again, as others have said, B12 injections work wonders! I would also try scambled eggs!


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

neill70 said:


> the B12 test was done on the first set of tests and was on the low side of normal, the vats can offer a course of B12 injections, i will be speaking to them today about this & his overall condition.


If B12 results were on the low side back then, this (at that stage, borderline) deficiency will have been going on for some time. B12 levels take a long time to deplete. Certainly very suspect of an underlying problem with his gut and/or genetic deficiencies/malabsorption.

Definitely get a new set of bloods taken to check his current B12/folate levels. I'll bet they're suboptimal now. If that is the case, he will need intravenous B12 suplementation (usually for 6 weeks), then a retest. Then so long as his levels are within optimal ranges, you will be able to start managing with oral supplements for B12 with Intrinsic factor (crucial).

If his B12 is suboptimal, getting that back to normal, should very much help get him eating normally again.


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## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

Right, he is going in tonight for his first B12 injection and we are going to see the vet who has been dealing with him all the way through tomorrow evening armed with a list of questions & suggestions from everyone who has kindly posted on here.

i managed to get some duck on the way home last night and this went down a treat with him actually taking this of his own free will & also this morning!

also tried tinned mackeral, he tried a little but but then refused it!

fingers crossed he will want some more duck when i get home, will let you all know how it goes with food & the meeting with the vet tomorrow.

once again thanks to everyone for all the input, its great to talk to people who have had this problem & can offer advice.

we have taken everything on board and are now trying the suggested feeding methods & will see what our vet says to the suggested meds that have been reccommended.

Neill Angie & Max


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

There are different types of B12 injections. The one normally used for dogs did nothing for Muddy and they had to order the type used on humans on the suggestion of the lab which does the tests. This has improved things considerably but it's an ongoing thing.
We are trying monthly injections at the moment but this may have to be increased.

http://www.naturalnews.com/027045_vitamin_B12_cyanocobalamin_methylcobalamin.html


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Great news he's eaten a little  and fingers crossed the b12 helps


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## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

The duck only worked for three meals & the b12 injection doesn't seem to have had any effect , he had a different set of blood tests and faecal test come back today.

There were no protozoa in the sample, the bloods showed anaemia and high white blood cells with a low protein level
we have had to force feed him all weekend and he threw most of it back up.

After seeing this and how weak he has become we were ready to call it a day today but the vet convinced us to try one last thing and he is now on a tablet called azathioprine.

If these don't work it really is game over so fingers crossed they do something.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Sorry to hear things are still pretty grim - I really do hope he hits a turning pint soon

Fingers crossed the azathioprine helps - I took it years ago, if its an autoimmune thing it should hopefully help


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I do so hope this drug works. It must be so distressing for all of you


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

neill70 said:


> The duck only worked for three meals & the b12 injection doesn't seem to have had any effect , he had a different set of blood tests and faecal test come back today.
> 
> There were no protozoa in the sample, the bloods showed anaemia and high white blood cells with a low protein level
> we have had to force feed him all weekend and he threw most of it back up.
> ...


Something that might be worth mentioning to the vet if they haven't thought of it and what would cause Lymphocytosis which is high lymphocytes which are one type of white blood cells, Eosinophlia which is high eosinophils another type of white blood cell, Anemia and low protein is addisons.

The symptoms of Addisons ca vary but most commonly seen are.
Vomitting
Diarrhoea
weight loss
depression/Lethargy
weakness
dehydration.
Not eating
as well as other symptoms sometimes.

Its an adrenal problem and the condition occurs when not enough glucocorticoids and/or mineralocorticoids are produced. Depending on whats not being produced in enough quantities they may only need glucocorticoid replacement but something they need mineralocorticoids or even both. The condition is actually called the great pretender as it can mimics other diseases and conditions.

May not be this but the symptoms would fit and the things that have show up on the recent blood test are also things that can show up on blood tests too.
There is more about Addisons on the Links below. It explains more and also about other tests and things that can often show up with Addisons.

Addisons Disease

http://www.percorten.novartis.us/pdf/Percorten_V_Monograph.pdf


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Any news on your poor boy ? So sad, must be awful fou and your family. Hope he can be saved x


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## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

no new news really but we have been told the new meds will take at least a week to start making a difference if they are going to work (if he lasts that long)

we are currently giving him 4 small blended meals a day at the moment, he is throwing up a little so far after every meal approx 2-3 hours afterwards but not as much as is going in.

he still has chronic diarrhoea and looks miserable / is very low on energy as to be expected, the poor lad was 15kg on Friday from 21+ back at the end of Feb and if not for his long coat would no doubt look like a skin covered skeleton.

i will email the vet about Addisons disease & see what they say.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

neill70 said:


> no new news really but we have been told the new meds will take at least a week to start making a difference if they are going to work (if he lasts that long)
> 
> we are currently giving him 4 small blended meals a day at the moment, he is throwing up a little so far after every meal approx 2-3 hours afterwards but not as much as is going in.
> 
> ...


Fingers crossed for you. 
Remind me, is he having a course or B12 jabs as well because of suboptimal levels. Make sure the course completed because it takes time for levels to begin to up again. 
I do hope he begins to recover soon. Has the vet given you any supplements to add to his meals (ie diarsanyl etc??)


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Hope the meds start to work, must be heartbreaking watching your dog waste away in front of you and nothing you try works. Sending cyber hugs to you all. X


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## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

not been on as max died yesterday around 4pm, the addisons test came back as negative, I noticed when we went to the vets he was so weak so we were booked in to end his suffering last night but he died before I got home from work, thankfully my wife was with him all day but I am destroyed that I didn't get chance to say goodbye to my baby & feel like we really let him down as we didn't think he was that far gone.

thanks so much for all the advice & ideas you all gave us (we got more info from here than the vets) I think if we had found this site sooner he may have had a better chance.

some pics of our baby in better times.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

So sorry for your loss. Run free Max


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## mollypip (Aug 17, 2011)

I didn't post on this thread as I didn't have any better advice than what you were being given. But I followed it and was rooting for you. I am so so sorry for whats happened it is truly tragic. You gave your dog your best and thats all you could have done. I really feel for you as I know the utter heartbreak that comes with losing a beloved dog. It gets easier with time.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

I'm ever so sorry.  How devastating 

You did your absolute best for him and he was lucky to have you.

xx


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## Dubuss (Nov 14, 2012)

Just heartbreaking. I'm so sorry to hear this.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

How utterly devastating. So sorry for your loss.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh no  I am so over sorry to hear this 

Max was very lucky to have had you, please do not feel you let him down as you were trying everything to make him well

Sleep tight, beautiful boy xx


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Just came on to see how Max was getting on. So sad, sorry for you and your family. You did everything you could for him. Its really got to me this thread, who would think in this day and age a dog could die like that and the vet not have a clue what's wrong. Sending you all hugs. Run free at the bridge Max well again with your friends xxx. Sorry to ask this but will you be having a pm done to find out if it was IBD ?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

So sorry. He was an amazing looking boy


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## staffgirl (May 1, 2013)

I'm so sorry to hear this. I have been following your thread and hoping things might have turned round for you all. You did everything you could for him. Xx


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

sorry to hear about max. You obviously really cared about him and it's a tragedy that nobody could find the key to his health problems in time.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Im so sorry to hear that Max lost his brave fight. My heart goes out to you all, and will be thinking of you at this sad and so difficult time.

May you spirit run forever free in sunshine Max


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

So sorry for your loss.xxx


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Huge hugs to you. Rest assured no-one could have done more for him than you. The sadness will eventually ease, so just keep looking at those gorgeous pics and remember the good times.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

What a beautiful boy he was. I am so, so sorry nothing could be done for him and can only apologise for not contributing to your thread sooner. Been having a v difficult time myself and trying to stay away from this sort of thing - no excuse
Please, please dont beat yourself up. You did everything you could. Try to be thankful that he was at home and you did everything you possibly could for him. You were a huge part of his life and nothing can take that way from you.

I truly wish there was something I could say to ease your pain. In time the wonderful legacy of happy memories Max left with you will shine thro and he will live in your heart forever


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## neill70 (Jul 1, 2014)

Thank you all for all your kind words, i think this will take a long tiome to get over as he was our first dog &we adopted him when we moved in to our current house so at the moment the whole house feels strange.

we did talk about getting a pm done but we still owe the vets a lot of money & its not going to help either max or ourselves so we decided not to.

just need to concentrate on making sure the other 6 are ok now as the 2 that were closest to him seem to be depressed, chloe our lab cross who was with him for almost all of his time with us & pheobie the border collie who used to spend all her time snuggled up to him.

hopefully we can share some good times with everyone on here once we get past this.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

so sorry, hugs


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## Deborah Domenici (Jul 15, 2017)

neill70 said:


> Hi, our blue merle border collie max has been ill since late feb, symptoms started with daily sickness & diarrhoea & loss of appetite, many trips to the vets later we had blood tests, urine tests & stool tests they came up with the diagnosis that lower intestine IBD was the most likely problem but couldnt be 100% sure without a biopsy.
> 
> he has been on steroids now since april, had a course of antibiotics and picked up initially for a couple of weeks, since then he has been on a downward spiral, he is drinking fine but barely eats anything especially not dog food, the most we can generally get him to eat is a bit of meat ie sliced ham, chicken breast and a few other small bits, we were told by the vet to get anything down him that he would eat at the time but after much research online it looks like we should have got him on a grain free diet asap.
> 
> ...


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## Deborah Domenici (Jul 15, 2017)

neill70 said:


> Thank you all for all your kind words, i think this will take a long tiome to get over as he was our first dog &we adopted him when we moved in to our current house so at the moment the whole house feels strange.
> 
> we did talk about getting a pm done but we still owe the vets a lot of money & its not going to help either max or ourselves so we decided not to.
> 
> ...


If you get this message-Can you please call me.I recently lost my dog to IBD thanks Deborah


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Deborah Domenici said:


> If you get this message-Can you please call me.I recently lost my dog to IBD thanks Deborah


The OP hasn't been on the forum in almost 3 years.

I have edited your post to remove your number as we don't recommend people post personal details on here as anyone could access them.

I'm sorry for the loss of your poor dog..


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## Michelle Petty (Apr 27, 2018)

Blaise in Surrey said:


> I'm so sorry; how awful for you.
> 
> Have you gone to another vet for a second opinion? This would definitely be my next move.


Yes! My coydog (coyote/border Collie mix)was diagnosed at about 1 year. After several $$$ test they finally diagnosed her. We have her on Fromm grain free and a little boiled chicken 3x a day. They put her on prednesone and must test her liver and kidneys ever year. Prednesone can be very damaging, so we keep up on her tests. We also got Healthy Paws pet insurance, best decision ever!


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## Ali MORTAGUI (Apr 29, 2018)

Hello, I know this is an old thread but I am going through the same with my 1 yr old rottweiler and it's tearing me to pieces, I was hoping if you could share your email.

I'm pretty desperate.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I have a Jack Russell bitch with IBD and she did suffer repeated and very painful attacks.

It took me some time to discover what she can or can't tolerate. She now has a very limited and rigid diet and I never vary it.

She has eggs for breakfast and cooked chicken, (no skin), in the evening. She has 2.5mg of Prednisalone a day.

I make small treats for training from pork sausage.

What are you feeding your dog and, is he on any medication?


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## Michelle Petty (Apr 27, 2018)

Ali MORTAGUI said:


> Hello, I know this is an old thread but I am going through the same with my 1 yr old rottweiler and it's tearing me to pieces, I was hoping if you could share your email.
> 
> I'm pretty desperate.


My email is [email protected]
Feel free to email me


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Michelle Petty said:


> My email is [email protected]
> Feel free to email me


Why would he/she need to email you?


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## Michelle Petty (Apr 27, 2018)

Rafa said:


> Why would he/she need to email you?


Because he/she asked for my email


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## LoveMyDog88 (May 29, 2019)

Hi Lemmsy, I found this forum by searching for information to help my dog with IBD. She has very low folate levels and low B12 levels. What folate/ B12 with intrinsic factor supplement would you recommend? (Which did you use with your dog?) THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP.


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## LoveMyDog88 (May 29, 2019)

lemmsy said:


> I would suggest getting a second opinion with another vet, a specialist would be best as Smokeybear recommends. Whereabouts are you based? Perhaps someone can recommend one near you?
> Sadly, without wanting to generalize, general practice vets are not usually experts on this condition, which can be very difficult to diagnose and treat, sadly.
> I would also consider consulting a recommended, sought after holistic vet.
> One of my dogs has (had, managed now) IBD and his story reads very much like your dog's, apart from that he wasn't treated with steroids. He was severely ill at one point and we thought we were going to loose him.
> ...


Hi Lemmsy, I found this forum by searching for information to help my dog with IBD. She has very low folate levels and low B12 levels. What folate/ B12 with intrinsic factor supplement would you recommend? (Which did you use with your dog?) THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP.


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## Dawn1977GSD (Aug 24, 2021)

neill70 said:


> Hi, our blue merle border collie max has been ill since late feb, symptoms started with daily sickness & diarrhoea & loss of appetite, many trips to the vets later we had blood tests, urine tests & stool tests they came up with the diagnosis that lower intestine IBD was the most likely problem but couldnt be 100% sure without a biopsy.
> 
> he has been on steroids now since april, had a course of antibiotics and picked up initially for a couple of weeks, since then he has been on a downward spiral, he is drinking fine but barely eats anything especially not dog food, the most we can generally get him to eat is a bit of meat ie sliced ham, chicken breast and a few other small bits, we were told by the vet to get anything down him that he would eat at the time but after much research online it looks like we should have got him on a grain free diet asap.
> 
> ...


Hi did you ever get to the bottom of this! We're going through the exact same thing and my dog is a bag of bones. The vet suspected cancer because she lost so much weight but we haven't had a biopsy yet as her protein was too low so they put her on steroids first. Any advice would be really appreciated as I really think we're close to losing her.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Dawn1977GSD said:


> Hi did you ever get to the bottom of this! We're going through the exact same thing and my dog is a bag of bones. The vet suspected cancer because she lost so much weight but we haven't had a biopsy yet as her protein was too low so they put her on steroids first. Any advice would be really appreciated as I really think we're close to losing her.


This thread is 7 yrs old, you'll get more replies if you start your own.


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