# wormers make border collie sick



## Black Bart (Mar 23, 2011)

Hi there, 
My dog Harry has thrown up every time I've tried Drontal or Milbemax (he's thrown up within hours of taking it). I've now tried Panacur which he held down overnight but he's thrown up a few times today... He seems healthy and I am not worried that he has worms at present but of course I want to properly protect him. The vet (whom I mentioned in another post is a bit disinterested, maybe overworked) doesn't seem to have any further advice. Does anyone here know what alternatives there might be?
Thanks in advance!


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2011)

Why not use a spot on?
Which Panacur did you use, granules or paste?


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## Black Bart (Mar 23, 2011)

Granules... I thought Spot On was for fleas only, do they have a worming one too?


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I use diatomaceous earth.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2011)

Sorry, just realised that you have a Border Collie, I think you have to be careful with Collies with spot ons


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Have you tried Advocate? A girl on another forum says Drontal makes her dog chuck but not this one. Not sure if you need a prescription, though? Oh, and change vets! I love mine, he never rushes, always kisses the dogs (!!). Yes, he goes crazy re treatments cos he is the owner of the practice, but I thoroughly appreciate that he appears to give a damn!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

i think in a lot of cases its trial and error..i posted a good while back about this as Mavis was often sick after worming, so i was unsure as to worm her right away again  , but with her , drontal seems good, no sickness


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I use diatomaceous earth.


Course, now I'm going to have to google this  I feel the least you can do when you post interesting stuff is explain it! 

Stabilizing element of dynamite?! Very porous (used in cat litter), made from fossils of hard shelled algae-tasty!
Diatomaceous earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know wikipedia is not 100% reliable (one of my Year 11s changed the description of a daffodil to his classmate's name!!)


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## CarrieH (Mar 25, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> Have you tried Advocate?


Advocate is one of the ones that Collies can sometimes react badly to.
This link gives loads of info about collies and which wormers they react to - The UK Bearded Collie Website :: View topic - URGENT MILBEMAX, STRONGHOLD AND ADVOCATE


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Ooh, my bad, didn't know this, sorry! I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that bones were helpful in eliminating worms? Think you'd have to use a product, too, though.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

cinammontoast said:


> Course, now I'm going to have to google this  I feel the least you can do when you post interesting stuff is explain it!
> 
> Stabilizing element of dynamite?! Very porous (used in cat litter), made from fossils of hard shelled algae-tasty!
> Diatomaceous earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


Really sorry. I tend to stick with natural products and away from drugs where I can. Not everyone agrees with this so rather than start a debate which isnt much help to OP, I sow the seed and leave it at that. Here are some links - my supplier recommends 1 teasp twice weekly for my lil pooch.

http://whttp://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/defaq.htmlww.lowchensaustralia.com/health/diatearth.htm

http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/health/diatearth.htm


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I was pretty certain Ivermectin was bad for Collie breeds, and somehow from memory I though mylbemycin was too. Rather than give you wrong info, I wanted to double check first.

Milbemax is Mylbemycin. On the Manufacturer Novartis Website is does say
"Studies with Mylbemycin indicate margin of safety in certain dogs of collie or related breeds is less than in other breeds, Reccomended dose is to be strictly observed.

Ivermectin in to be avoided too with collies by all accounts, also Moxedectin seems to be under question with collies too. Advocate and Advantage are both Moxedectin and Imidacloprid.

While I was looking up the various chemicals, also came across this that is up to date research on collies and related breeds and the use of chemical worming and flea treatments. The only thing I would say to collie or related breed owners, is dont look at the product name or brand name actually look at the "chemicals" in it and do your research on that Before giving your dogs wormers of flea treatments to be on the safe side.

Latest information on drug sensitivity in collies


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## CarrieH (Mar 25, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> Ooh, my bad, didn't know this, sorry!


I didn't know until the dogs had advocate for the first time and reacted badly. Ben obviously has a lot of Lab in him, but suspect there's a bit of collie in there too. No collie in Dory, but Advocate makes her really ill.
Vet should know about these things with Collies though.


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## Paddy Paws (Jul 11, 2010)

Some dogs do get upset when given veterinary wormers. You could counter this by giving something like a  Synbiotic Probiotic Capsule at the same time to help settle their stomach. You can use a prescription spot on but they don't cover all worm types. Some miss out roundworm and others tapeworm. There is a new veterinary wormer called Plerion which you could try, there is no guarantee though that it wont cause a tummy upset. Panacur tends to be more mild but does not cover the flea tapeworm. If your dog doesn't have issues with fleas throughout the year, this may be sufficient for your dog 
Ivermectin and Border Collies do not mix

 Veterinary Womers


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## Black Bart (Mar 23, 2011)

Ooh.. I am now quite concerned as it appears my vet did not give me any warning that Milbemax contains Ivermectin and Ivermectin can be particularly dangerous for collies. Am trying to figure out if Drontal also contains Ivermectin. I'm glad Harry just chucked it and did not get any worse than that, but it seems pretty irresponsible to me to have vets prescribing it in light of the potential problems!?


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Black Bart said:


> Ooh.. I am now quite concerned as it appears my vet did not give me any warning that Milbemax contains Ivermectin and Ivermectin can be particularly dangerous for collies. Am trying to figure out if Drontal also contains Ivermectin. I'm glad Harry just chucked it and did not get any worse than that, but it seems pretty irresponsible to me to have vets prescribing it in light of the potential problems!?


It's a minority of border collies with a particular gene mutation that can be adversly affected by milbemax/invermectin, and even those with the mutation are usually OK with the correct dose. Some have a stronger reaction, which can be serious or fatal but is usually associated with giving more than the recommended dose. 
All that said, I wouldn't give my collie type dogs these drugs when there is a safe alternative (Drontal is OK). With my younger dog, I'll get her MDR1 status checked as one of her health tests if I ever breed from her.


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

It is rough collies, not borders, where the incidence of affectation is most alarming. In studies done at the University of Giessen in Germany, and Washington State University in the US, among the rough collie population 33% of the all rough collies were affected. By contrast, the incidence among border collies has been seen at 0.3%.

Other affected breeds include:
Long haired Whippets: 15.7%
Aussies: 6.9%
Shelties: 5.7%
McNab: 2.8%
White Swiss Shepherd: 2.6%
Silken Windhound (I think that's a Saluki): 1.2%

In the USA in the Autumn of 2005 over 300 pure bred Border Collies were tested for this mutation and zero have been found to have the multidrug sensitivity gene (mdr1-1&#916. Even if your Border Collie does have this mutation, the heartworm preventive dose has been shown to be sufficiently low to not elicit a reaction in known sensitive Collies.

UPDATE as of 11/15/06: From Katy Robertson at UC Davis, where the test is performed:

"We have tested 362 Border Collies (not controlled for relatedness) to date and have seen the MDR1 mutation in only 1 dog. This dog was a rescue with unknown pedigree; therefore, we didn't include the dog in our findings."

Based on the above information, this drug sensitivity gene has not yet been found in purebred border collies in USA. Since the mutated MDR1 gene is fairly common in many breeds that can look like border collies, dogs with unknown pedigrees should not be counted as border collies.


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2011)

MDR1 is a problem collie types suffer from some collies will be fine others wont.

Here is the list that was passed on to me.


> ACEPROMAZINE
> ALDOSTERONE
> AMITRIPTYLINE
> ANTIMETICS
> ...


Its best to avoid any wormers/flea treatment that contains MDR1 sensitive drugs.


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