# 6 month old puppy with elbow dysplasia



## Cockapoodledoo (Jun 14, 2013)

Hello

I have a 6 month old Cockapoo who has Elbow Dysplasia (newly diagnosed by x-ray) we have tried onsior tablets and now onto something stronger (metacam) as the Onsior tabs didn't work as well as we thought. He has a orthopaedic specialist appoinment on tuesday 5 november for a CT Scan and possible surgery. would I be putting him through too much at this point in time?

we are so upset, when he first came home he was ok and settled in perfectly then I would say about 2 weeks in and he kept on falling over himself not in a clumsy way but in a way to make you think "I need to see a vet". he was on a course of Rimadyl but they didnt work either so when he was old enough to have the xray that is what the diagnosis was.

Has anyones dog been diagnosed with Elbow dysplasia? what was your preferred route i.e surgery or other therapies. and what was the overall outcome, I know on the phone to the specialist he said ED was a long term thing that takes a long time to settle.

if i can get a video on here you can see him Limping badly. How do i do it?
thanks again
Harriet


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

bump, sorry this was in moderated area....


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Can I suggest you get in touch with the Cockapoo Owners Club of GB, other cockapooo clubs do exist, but they are nowhere near as impartial or helpful. I wish you the best with your boy, please let us know how you get on.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Excellent advice from Sleeping Lion - poor mite 

I'd ask as many questions as poss when you see the specialist - I know one of my major concerns re surgery (if done soon) would be how it would / could be affected as he obviously still has some growing to do 

Best of luck with him


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Lilylass said:


> Excellent advice from Sleeping Lion - poor mite
> 
> I'd ask as many questions as poss when you see the specialist - I know one of my major concerns re surgery (if done soon) would be how it would / could be affected as he obviously still has some growing to do
> 
> Best of luck with him


Not that excellent, I was just posting and dashing, but it is worth knowing that not all the cockapoo clubs are impartial, some are owned and run by breeders unfortunately, where as the cockapoo owners club UK was set up by someone who loves this and other cross breeds, but wants to see the same care about their breeding as taken for *some* pedigree breeds.

Definitely worth having a good talk through with your vet, are they experienced? If not, can they refer you to somewhere appropriate, there are a number of vets around the country that specialise in different treatments, so it might be worth asking for a recommendation on here.


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

I know a 2 year old labrador that recently had operations on both elbows. He is doing brilliantly and back to his normal, bouncy self!


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## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

Elbow Dysplasia is a generic term and just means abnormality of the elbow joint, there are 4 types and not all are operated on.
I have a GSD who is 8 1/2 who was dieagnosed with ED when he was x-rayed for scoring, no clinical signs although he has grade 3 elbows. He has been on joint supplements since 13month never operated on, until he started with DM as led a very active life. His brother was operated on at 10 months old (he had the bone shaved has he had a boney spur. But again no problems since.
Has you are in Liverpool are they sending you to the small animal hospital? if not another good one not too far away is Torrington Orthopeadics in Brighouse West Yorkshire


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Cockapoodledoo said:


> Hello
> 
> I have a 6 month old Cockapoo who has Elbow Dysplasia (newly diagnosed by x-ray) we have tried onsior tablets and now onto something stronger (metacam) as the Onsior tabs didn't work as well as we thought. He has a orthopaedic specialist appoinment on tuesday 5 november for a CT Scan and possible surgery. would I be putting him through too much at this point in time?
> 
> ...


So sorry to hear you are having problems with elbow dysplasia especially as he is so young. Elbow dysplasia is due to abnormal development of the elbow joint and the elbow joint consists of three bones plus cartilage its not straightforward so there can be different contributors to the problem and depending on whats actually occurring the treatments needed are different.
Surgery not only deals with the pain it usually stops osteoarthritis forming or forming any worse or problems later. Medications may deal with the pain but wont stop further changes or osteoarthritis.

Fitzpatrick refferals who are headed by Noel Fitzpatrick and are orthopaedic and neurosurgery specialists have some detailed but easy to understand information including videos on their site to explain about what Elbow dysplasia is and the various diagnostics and treatment including the surgical options explained. Although you should have a better idea as regards to his case as to whats exactly happening and what your options are once more diagnostics have been done when you see the specialist.

Canine Elbow Dysplasia

Elbow Dysplasia | Specialist Orthopaedics + Neurosurgery | Fitzpatrick Referrals


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

Max had elbow issues at 4 months old and ended up with surgery for his elbows and eventually his hips. 
Expensive, emotionally draining but to see him now is amazing , you really wouldnt think there was anything wrong with him but I do supplement with Microlactin, glucosamine chrondrotinin and omega fish oil capsules


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Cockapoodledoo said:


> Hello
> 
> I have a 6 month old Cockapoo who has Elbow Dysplasia (newly diagnosed by x-ray) we have tried onsior tablets and now onto something stronger (metacam) as the Onsior tabs didn't work as well as we thought. He has a orthopaedic specialist appoinment on tuesday 5 november for a CT Scan and possible surgery. would I be putting him through too much at this point in time?
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your puppy. Elbow dysplasia does seem to be on the increase. He does seem to have had quite early and it severely, but there are things that can be done. Treatment will depend on the problem because ED is a general term for a number of different problems. Your vet should refer you to a specialist who will give you the best options available (depending on the problem). Mild forms can often be managed with pain relief and hydrotherapy, but surgery may be the best option. Please be aware that while surgery can be successful and helpful, a) it requires VERY careful rehabilitation over quite a long period and b) it is not a 'cure'.

Noel Fitzpatrick is well known and does some excellent work, but I also know a number of people who have not been happy with him. There are other good orthopaedic specialists around too though.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

My dog has ED - FCP.

He went lame at 4 months, was operated on at 6 months (arthroscopy so not massively invasive)...it wasn't completely successful. 

It's better than it was, but I still have to watch he doesn't over exercise or it bothers him again and he's on metacam, probably forever. Also because it wasn't as successful as we'd hoped it will probably become a major issue again while he's still relatively young.

The resting before the operation and the crate rest and recovery afterwards has really affected his social skills with other dogs - but I think that's an issue whether I'd decided to go for the operation or not as he was only able to walk on 3 legs by the time he went in for the op. So either way it was going to be months of not getting out. 

His leg was actually better coming out of surgery than it had been for weeks - so I do think it was the right thing to do, but that was with a relatively minor surgery that left him feeling ok after a few days and it was just a case of keeping him entertained on crate rest...different surgeries have different recovery periods and affect them differently.


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## Cockapoodledoo (Jun 14, 2013)

Hello

we are back from our appointment he screamed on slight bending of both elbows. Ct scan was put back until monday morning. I think vet specialist would like to do arthroscopy but all depends on this scan. How long was the recovery period? did he have to wear a Cone of shame or was it small enough not to lick the stitches (sutures). the waiting is killing me now knowing i have to wait longer and he will be in pain for longer. The specialist did say there was no Cure as such so would not be successful. 

He was shaking in the car with fear it made me feel worse then a young lady waiting outside crying her eyes out as I think she had to have her poorly dog put down. we went after him being poked and pulled. 

tabulahrasa- without being to rude- how much was the arthroscopy? we only have £7000 to play with so may not go far if he needs both elbows doing plus ct scan


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I would suggest getting in touch with the breeder too, if you haven't already.

It sounds horrid for him (and you). Hope something can be done.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

It was about £2500 for the CT and arthroscopy, including vat. If I remember right the CT scan was the most expensive bit, lol.

Recovery was - 3 weeks of crate rest, on lead in the garden for toiletting only, then 3 weeks of short on lead walks but free reign inside. He had 2 tiny stitches, which they thought he had pulled out overnight, but as it turned out he hadn't and I only put the cone on when I was leaving him alone as actually he never touched them and he is usually quite nibbly with that sort of thing.

If they can't do it that way and have to open the leg up it's about double the recovery period.


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## Cockapoodledoo (Jun 14, 2013)

Oh dear wouldnt like him to have open leg surgery at this age. but knowing my luck will probably turn out that way because nothing has gone right for me appointments postponed/put back lol.

Im so happy i have this forum to ask my questions and to have them answered from people who have gone through the same thing.

did he have both elbows done?


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Just the one, his other one's fine.

I was told about the longer recovery in case when they went in they couldn't manage to do what they needed to and had to open it up, but I'm sure they'll explain everything to you anyway.


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## suze23 (Jun 3, 2011)

tabulahrasa said:


> My dog has ED - FCP.
> 
> He went lame at 4 months, was operated on at 6 months (arthroscopy so not massively invasive)...it wasn't completely successful.
> 
> ...


^^ just to add my dog had problems on metacam - if your vet hasnt said so already you should be on blood tests 2x a year using metacam....

mine had a high count on 2 vital organs due to metacam....my vets do not rate it...

OP....twitter....HI 

Mine have hip dysplasia... both of them the cocker and the springer x collie - mild but enough for the older to go lame if she over does it - to make matters more complicated she also has bad wrists - she went front lame friday and hopped until saturday night and finally recovering today (sprain)!

Id be *very* loathe to do surgery on such a young dog changing and growing - rob pettitt is a very good orthopedic surgeon at leahurst (assuming where your going?)

John Innes at chester gates is also fantastic....

Ive dealt with both and were very honest with prognosis..with max (cocker, 18 months) he said at the time being sucha young dog with his hips, they will go "level" and probably stay lame but wont go worse until hes much older

hes 18 months now, and he's "ok" does basics of agility but to be honest i think that will be knocked on the head - hes fine with small jumps but very concerned he will hurt himself - hes a pet afterall 

good luck - leahurst is a great place and the vets are top notch but i suggest asking as many people as you can once you have all information to hand as to what they did..... vet's will push for experimental procedures as naturally they CAN fix things...dosent mean they should though
:thumbup1:


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

He had a blood test not long ago - he's fine on Metacam...I must admit that I'm not overly thrilled about longterm use, but, I know that because his elbow is still problematic longterm for him may not be more than few years anyway.

My vet was very realistic about the surgery outcome...surgery only ever had a slightly higher success rate than just waiting and seeing had. One of the reasons I opted for surgery was that it potentially offered a quicker recovery time. I couldn't walk him and still have him take it easy at all - so by 6 months old he'd had nearly 8 weeks of trying to rest it, so another 3 weeks seemed like a better option than months more.

As I said he walked out after it after hopping in, so actually it was immediately better, obviously I'd be happier if his elbow was functioning completely normally, but that was a very slim chance.

Suze23 is right though - they may well offer things that you might want to have a good think about, they were quite keen to do another procedure afterwards that was much more invasive, had a longer recovery time and still didn't give fantastic odds of improvement. Because he's now getting something close to normal exercise I opted to leave him as he is. IMO what he had done wasn't massively traumatic for him (crate rest was quite hard on me right enough, lol) and he now has an ok quality of life, I didn't want to mess that up to gamble that something worse might work better.

So don't be afraid to not rush into anything if you're not sure about it.


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## Cockapoodledoo (Jun 14, 2013)

Thank you for the support

I'm also thinking about getting him some orthopet elbow braces for support which have to be made to measure, I will be suggesting this to my vet to see what he thinks.

I have recently noticed elbow dysplasia a lot in puppy's around the 4 month stage which I find very sad :-( his parents were only hip tested and his mum tested for FN and dNA clear by parentage, but I have heard even though both parents turn out clear one of the off spring can have it, I'm glad I chose him though as he is a very special boy


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## suze23 (Jun 3, 2011)

Yep leahurst are fab but one of the vets (not one i listed above i wish to add)!, suggested one of my dogs may be great for hip replacement - shes 7 and no way in hell would i put her though that - at 7 and the fact shes a very active dog

obviously being a teaching hospital has its greatness in equipment and treatment - but also the aspect in actually wanting to do it as well as more experimental procedures.

Mine were both diagnosed less than 18 months (hips), yes my eldest has slightly dippy walk but shes not in pain and happy to run around and chase the "puppy" and rattle him, but will sleep and rest more after - just age catching up on her a little quicker 




tabulahrasa - green lipped muscle is apparantly good and more natural stuff - cortaflex i used to use on a very stiff horse - they do the same for dogs im lead to believe.... equine america stuff

my dogs are on nothing now, if millie overdoes things (she does have a habit of running off at the moment!) she will get lead work the next day to contain her!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Can I ask where you got your pup from? It sounds like the breeders really should look at their breeding stock in all honesty.


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## suze23 (Jun 3, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Can I ask where you got your pup from? It sounds like the breeders really should look at their breeding stock in all honesty.


i dont think this is for me? bu still;

but just for the record - one of mine is a collie x spaniel (accidental litter £50 from the neighbour!)

2nd is from working cockers both parents working dogs - would do a day in the field no issues, his hips are mild but (to me) an obvious little wiggle. no pain, happy as larry, but there

guess 2nd is just bad luck tbh!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

suze23 said:


> i dont think this is for me? bu still;
> 
> but just for the record - one of mine is a collie x spaniel (accidental litter £50 from the neighbour!)
> 
> ...


Nope, not for you 

I'm just concerned, I hope this breeder is a one off, not someone who's breeding numerous litters where there could be ticking time bombs as regards conformation issues that could cause health issues.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

suze23 said:


> tabulahrasa -* green lipped muscle* is apparantly good and more natural stuff - cortaflex i used to use on a very stiff horse - they do the same for dogs im lead to believe.... equine america stuff
> 
> my dogs are on nothing now, if millie overdoes things (she does have a habit of running off at the moment!) she will get lead work the next day to contain her!


He's on Yumove - which has that in it, and salmon oil and vitamin E as well.

His elbow is actually not too bad currently... as long as he doesn't get too much charging about like a lunatic time he's not often too stiff. He has other issues though, so he might be getting different meds soon anyway.

My poor wee broken boy, lol.


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## suze23 (Jun 3, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Nope, not for you
> 
> I'm just concerned, I hope this breeder is a one off, not someone who's breeding numerous litters where there could be ticking time bombs as regards conformation issues that could cause health issues.


thats fine 

oh i agree with the health tests....


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## Cockapoodledoo (Jun 14, 2013)

He is from a large licensed breeder, called Jukeedoodles. his mum was only tested for FN-Normal/clear and prcd/PRA Normal/clear all DNA tested

his father was hip scored- 4/3=7

I did contact the breeder but she never had this problem before. she said i could either choose another puppy and give Bentley back (which i would never have done)

i have paid well over £1000 he costed £950 and the train fares were around £50 as I had to go to Lincolnshire from Liverpool to get him.

Im insured but only up to £7000


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Cockapoodledoo said:


> He is from a large licensed breeder, called Jukeedoodles. his mum was only tested for FN-Normal/clear and prcd/PRA Normal/clear all DNA tested
> 
> his father was hip scored- 4/3=7
> 
> ...


No mention of testing for ED though....

And 'large licensed breeder' is a worrying phrase, sounds like they do it for money rather than a love of the (cross)breed :frown2:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Cockapoodledoo said:


> He is from a large licensed breeder, called Jukeedoodles. his mum was only tested for FN-Normal/clear and prcd/PRA Normal/clear all DNA tested
> 
> his father was hip scored- 4/3=7
> 
> ...


Oh dear, I think the term licensed breeder is a little kind, I've responded to your message, apols as I didn't see you'd replied on here.


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## Cockapoodledoo (Jun 14, 2013)

no mention of ED on his papers.

I am actually crapping one here thinking about tomorrow. all the pain he has been through is unimaginable. We have tried everything from rest for a few days, to anti inflammatories. 

he has to be starved from 10:00pm tonight and then we are leaving around 7:30 8ish to get there for 9:00am 

this is going to be a long day but worth it in the end once we have the proper diagnosis


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## lipsthefish (Mar 17, 2012)

Cockapoodledoo said:


> no mention of ED on his papers.
> 
> I am actually crapping one here thinking about tomorrow. all the pain he has been through is unimaginable. We have tried everything from rest for a few days, to anti inflammatories.
> 
> ...


I really hope you get some answers tomorrow and that something can be done to help Bentley, he is a gorgeous little man 

I really feel for you with all the bad luck you've had with dogs over the last few years, poor Coco and Toby were far to young 

Sending lots of well wishes and will be thinking of you both tomorrow


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## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

Welcome back M4M's,

sorry to hear Bentley is poorly at such a young age.


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## Cockapoodledoo (Jun 14, 2013)

Turns out poor Bentley has FMCP 

We checked out the ct scan which showed his right elbow was abnormal and where it's supposed to be white it was completely dark but not the left elbow now as bad.

We are going down the medication route for a month then a phone call review. He didn't want to do surgery because he said making a whole in the joint would cause more problems? I asked about Hydrotherapy he said Bentley cant have it? I'm wondering whether to get a second opinion from Noel Fitzpatrick. I don't like the thought of medication all his life so thought surgery would be better. 


Decisions...... Decisions.... If I asked for his ct scans do I have the right to keep them?


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## victoria171168 (Apr 8, 2013)

are there fragments in his joint, sometimes they arent always visible.

My pup had osteo chrondritis in his elbows and had surgery and the difference was amazing straightaway, never regretted doing it for one minute as if there is fragmentation its like trying to walk with rocks in your shoe


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

Cockapoodledoo said:


> Turns out poor Bentley has FMCP
> 
> We checked out the ct scan which showed his right elbow was abnormal and where it's supposed to be white it was completely dark but not the left elbow now as bad.
> 
> ...


Hmm odd, I was under the impression that arthroscopy was pretty much the go to treatment?

But, to be fair, I was told that waiting to see how it went was absolutely a viable treatment option as it quite often gets better with maturity.


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## Cheryl89 (Jun 24, 2013)

Hey hun, 

Sadly my ESS went through the same thing. She went lame from around 4/5 months onwards, once I contacted the breeder after Engel broke her right leg (all round her elbow joint) and fractured her left (again near the elbow) my breeder went silent. Changed his number and everything ...Little sh*&t.

We wasn't so lucky to be insured and we paid the price heavily for it but we could never of put her to sleep so we had to try something at least once.

Anyhoo, 2 months on from her breaks she is fighting fit and her leg is stronger then ever before ....her left leg remains fractured and vet will decide what to do with it soon but for now she is enjoying a little bit of freedom.

So sorry this has happened to you, but it does lie with the breeder xxx


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## Cockapoodledoo (Jun 14, 2013)

Breeder doesnt seem interested although we have paid the price.

Well tonight i noticed Bentleys left leg was wonky so called the Specialist vet but the receptionist told me to leave a message with them and they would pass it on. 4:15pm they closed and still no answer. maybe dealing with inpatients and working laye. i know he said he was busy in surgery between 2 and 4:30. anyway, i have just purchased a Quincys dogaid harness which helps with elbow dysplacia (a forum member on here i think designed it called Littlechief) It should arrive tomorrow

its so sad to see him in pain and there is no cure as he will be with this lameness all his life.

Thanks
Anya


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## Cheryl89 (Jun 24, 2013)

Cockapoodledoo said:


> Breeder doesnt seem interested although we have paid the price.
> 
> Well tonight i noticed Bentleys left leg was wonky so called the Specialist vet but the receptionist told me to leave a message with them and they would pass it on. 4:15pm they closed and still no answer. maybe dealing with inpatients and working laye. i know he said he was busy in surgery between 2 and 4:30. anyway, i have just purchased a Quincys dogaid harness which helps with elbow dysplacia (a forum member on here i think designed it called Littlechief) It should arrive tomorrow
> 
> ...


God that sounds awful  if you're willing to travel to kent I know an amazing specialist for this kind of thing & she is literally amazing & helps out those with springers / spaniels for a fraction of the cost xx


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

https://jukeedoodlesblog.wordpress....youtube-comwatchvzh4y39s7kdesnsem/#comment-20


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## Yorkiemorkiemum (Jun 14, 2012)

Hi I just thought I would read your thread after you posting on mine about the small animal hospital (Denzil). OMG you are going through it with you boy aren't you? I know that whilst they are good at the hospital, getting information to and from the specialist is tricky to say the least! Our vet isn't happy either because they are not good at sharing information. My vet is concerned that if Denzil needs emergency treatment, and we can't get through to the hospital, she won't know what course to take. 
I am going back in three weeks with Denzil armed with an array of questions about his continued Chemo it has set him back this time I have had to put him back on his tummy medicine and painkillers for the last few days. Good luck!


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## princeno5 (Jun 5, 2010)

I really don't mean to be rude,but your dogs never seem to be healthy .where do you buy them.


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