# Kitty pooping outside litter tray



## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

I've read Shoshanna's excellent thread but am still none the wiser as to why Gunter has started going outside his tray.

There have been no changes to his routine. I have not introduced any new food. His trays (open style) have been in the same place as always and his litter has been the same for around a month now. His poos are fine in terms of solidity and regularity, and his behaviour is the same as always: alert and playful, no signs of distress either day to day or whilst eliminating. We scoop his trays 3 times a day and it is fully cleaned every week or two (depending on the consistency of the litter).

He uses one tray more than the other, but we have kept it out and filled just in case. He is only pooing outside his trays, and obviously so - sometimes he just misses and you can tell as it's right by the tray and there will be some that he has buried. These are a little way away from his tray.

He does not poop on the floor every time. It seems to only happen when we are home (which may be a good thing as we can clean it up immediately). We've not yet come home from work to find a present for us. He does not wee outside his trays.

We spray the places he eliminates with the enzyme stuff but to no avail.

He has only started doing this in the last few days - maybe 3 or 4?

I've included as much as I can think of but please let me know if there is anything I have missed which may give clues!


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Oh, he is neutered and is 5 and a half months old.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

SG, yes it can take quite a bit of detective work sometimes to work out why a cat has suddenly started pooing (or weeing ) away from the trays.

When we're looking at changes that might have impacted on the cat's behaviour we may need to look further back than a week, maybe as far back as a month. Because cats don't always react immediately to changes in their environment even with something as important to them as their litter tray.

This is not to say they don't react inwardly. But it is as though they take a while to decide whether they feel negative or okay about a change and whether they are comfortable to incorporate it into their routine.

The fact that some of the poo is in the tray and buried and some of it next to the tray suggests he is in a hurry to get out of the tray after pooing, in fact he may not like being in the tray at all. This could because of a negative association with the tray e.g. if he has had discomfort when defecating, due to diarrhoea, or he has had to strain due to constipation, he blames the tray and doesn't trust it not to hurt him. Even a minor health issue that is not directly connected with evacuation might cause a cat to change their toilet habits and avoid the tray.

Alternatively he might have decided he doesn't like the new litter you introduced a month ago. Perhaps he doesn't like the consistency, or finds it hard on his paws. (which one did you switch to?) Perhaps he is a cat who likes to do a lot of digging before he poos, as some do, so the feel of the litter is important to him. Perhaps when he pees he does little or no digging, so the consistency is less important then.

All we can do is to go on what we have, and if you are certain Gunter has no health issues of any kind, and his stools are normal in consistency and quantity, then for the moment there is just the new litter introduced a month ago. So for that reason I would go back to the litter you were providing before. It may be wide of the mark but I think it is at least worth ruling it out.

The reason he does it when you are there may be intentional, inasmuch as he is giving you a message that he doesn't like something about the tray.

Another thought is that if the tray is located somewhere quite busy when you are at home he perhaps feels he doesn't have the privacy he would like. It is a shot in the dark, but I find with my 2 young cats they usually prefer using the trays that are tucked away in the cloakroom and bathroom as there is less [human] traffic in those areas. So for this reason you could try adding an extra tray somewhere tucked away.

If none of these suggestions make a difference then it is back to the drawing board, with more detective work to do. I await your feedback with interest.

EDIT: How long ago was he neutered BTW?


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks for the comprehensive reply! I will address as much as possible:

When I said he pooped next to the tray, sometimes it is literally right next to it, in which case I guess that it is because he missed by accident (I have actually witnessed this - he will get in, dig, then squat down, but his bum is hovering over the edge very slightly so some gets out). Then he covers with litter then looks confused when he can't cover up anything outside of the tray, bless him! These few times, he is actually pooping away from the tray, so some distance but still within 50cm of it. He will do this even if the tray is entirely clean. My first thought was that something was wrong but I've never spotted him straining (I like to peep just because lol) - every time he goes, something comes out - and he has not had diarrhoea since I cut out beef from his diet (approx 6 weeks ago).

His previous litter was Oko Plus and I swapped to Super Benek. I chose it because of the good reviews and because it is a similar consistency and shape to Oko. Obviously though, just because I like it more does not mean he does! I will swap one tray back to Oko to see if that is the problem, as this is the only change that has happened in quite some time! He does like to dig as I have seen/heard him dig a lot, especially with the Super Benek - I read that this is a sign he likes the feel?

I can't be 100% certain he has no health issues but at his last check-up at the vet, he was given the thumbs up. I believe I am due to pick up some worming tablets next weekend so will take him in also if this continues after I swap back to Oko.

I also thought that maybe he only eliminated outside his tray when we're around because he is trying to tell us something, but I wasn't sure what/if I was just reading into coincidence too much!

The tray he prefers is the one down the stairs, by the front door. I was worried there would be too much traffic but when we only had one tray upstairs, he would sometimes go in there but more often go and poop on the carpet down there. Giving him a tray there fixed the issue, so clearly he didn't feel it was too busy. To be fair, the only traffic that area sees is if anyone comes in or out as we live in an upstairs flat where the stairs are incorporated inside our bit. So the only use of that area is when we leave & come home from work, and we don't often have people round. General household traffic doesn't go anywhere near there.

He was neutered at 14 weeks, so back in February.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Sitting with his bum slightly over the edge of the tray can be an indication he doesn't like the tray for some reason. Did he always do this? If not and it has only started recently, and the only change you can identify is the changed type of litter then that does point to a possible cause.

Sometimes a kitten might always sit near/on the edge of the tray right from the start, because they they have learnt to do so by copying their mother. 
The reason their mother might do it is because of a dirty tray. So if Gunter had the problem from when he first came to live with you I would suspect it was due to his early training.

I haven't bought any Super Benek yet, [was thinking of doing so as Zooplus sells it.] so I don't know how much it differs from Oko Plus. But I have bought Maizey which is similar to Oko Plus, and found the pieces were quite sharp. I mixed it initially with some Oko and the cats used it fine, but when I put just Maizey in one tray I noticed they tended to avoid that tray all the time.

It could be Gunter doesn't like the feel of the new litter, or perhaps the smell of it. Digging for a few seconds to make a hole and then toiletting is often
a sign the cat feels OK in the tray, but digging frantically more than a few seconds, then moving to another part of the tray to dig again before defecating can suggest the cat is not entirely happy about using the tray for some reason.

It sounds as though it is not a lack of privacy for him that's causing the problem. Also I don't think his neutering op has any connection with the tray
issue as the op was more than 2 months ago. So at least we have ruled those out.

I've found the type of litter cats like most is the fine clay stuff as it's very similar to sand. It needs to be a good quality one as cheap brands are often very dusty and also get smelly quickly, necessitating a whole tray change every few days. Biokats from Zooplus is about the best around. When there is a problem with a cat using their litter tray sometimes switching to a clay clumping litter solves the problem immediately.

I have also found that providing extra large trays can help too.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Sorry for the lack of response, have been ill with norovirus over the weekend and when I tried to go on PF yesterday it was down!

Since changing back to Oko we've not had any accidents (touch wood), though I also swapped the tray from upstairs with the one from downstairs as that was slightly bigger and didn't have that lip that is supposed to keep litter in. So not sure whether it is the tray itself or the litter but all OK so far. I have an XXL tray arriving today from Zooplus so hopefully he will like that more.

Actually, yesterday I accidentally burst a lump when I was brushing him, and it was pus-filled. I took him to the vet and he is now on antibiotics and Metacam. He had also been slightly off his food the last 3-4 days. Could the lump have been related to the food and/or the toilet issue...? I feel like it's likely to have affected appetite but less likely to affect toilet behaviour?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

The pus-filled lump is an abscess, [as you may know], which he acquired through fighting and being bitten by another cat. The abscess would certainly have made him feel unwell, with infection and a raised temperature, which is why he was off his food.

When a cat is feeling unwell it can sometimes affect their use of the tray. So it is hard to know for certain, but I think switching back to Oko and giving him a larger tray is a wise precaution anyway.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Funnily enough that's what the vet assumed too but he hasn't had any contact with any other cats, nor children with sharp objects! He is strictly an indoor cat and we have only the one. So it's a mystery to us all...


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

smoking guns said:


> Funnily enough that's what the vet assumed too but he hasn't had any contact with any other cats, nor children with sharp objects! He is strictly an indoor cat and we have only the one. So it's a mystery to us all...


Oh goodness me, that's odd isn't it?  I've never heard of that happening before to an indoor cat who is the only cat.! Bit of a mystery! Perhaps he fell on something in the house.....


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Hmm we came home yesterday to some poo on the floor; when we checked his trays, his main one only had a small pee in and the other was clean. I've cleaned the carpet with enzyme stuff since his last going outside the tray so it shouldn't be a smell association thing... He is back on Oko, in a bigger tray, and he is acting completely fine otherwise. I guess it's not an attention thing as this time we were not in when he did it? Ugh I don't know what else to do.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

SG, having had a similar problem in the past (with one of my cats when he got older)after I'd changed the type of litter and added extra open trays without any real improvement, I found what resolved it in the end was to move the litter trays to the spots in the house where my cat was pooing. One of these was in the living room, not an ideal place for a tray, but I put a fire screen in front of it to hide it from visitors! I felt my cat had decided one day for some reason he didn't like the places where the litter trays had always been and wanted them moved.

Incidentally, can you remind me, are you providing open trays or covered ones? Cats do not always like covered trays for pooing in as the ceiling may be too low for them to sit upright in the usual position for defecation.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

chillminx said:


> SG, having had a similar problem in the past (with one of my cats when he got older)after I'd changed the type of litter and added extra open trays without any real improvement, I found what resolved it in the end was to move the litter trays to the spots in the house where my cat was pooing. One of these was in the living room, not an ideal place for a tray, but I put a fire screen in front of it to hide it from visitors! I felt my cat had decided one day for some reason he didn't like the places where the litter trays had always been and wanted them moved.
> 
> Incidentally, can you remind me, are you providing open trays or covered ones? Cats do not always like covered trays for pooing in as the ceiling may be too low for them to sit upright in the usual position for defecation.


That would have been a good idea but he is going essentially no more than 50cm away from one of his trays. He also does not always go in the same place, just goes down in that area. When he first started doing down by the door, I put a tray there and it fixed the problem. I have no idea what triggered it this time, which is almost every day now. 

Both of his trays are open.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

smoking guns said:


> That would have been a good idea but he is going essentially no more than 50cm away from one of his trays. He also does not always go in the same place, just goes down in that area. When he first started doing down by the door, I put a tray there and it fixed the problem. I have no idea what triggered it this time, which is almost every day now.
> 
> Both of his trays are open.


Advice given at a distance will at times have its limitations unfortunately I think when one has tried everything possible and a soiling problem is still ongoing it may be time to call in a feline behaviourist for advice. They will come to your home to observe and advise, and may see something significant that could have been missed so far.

If you have pet insurance you will be covered as long as a vet makes the referral. Otherwise fees in the order of £75 a session are common. You may only need one session and a telephone follow-up, and it could be worth every penny if it solves the problem.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

chillminx said:


> Advice given at a distance will at times have its limitations unfortunately I think when one has tried everything possible and a soiling problem is still ongoing it may be time to call in a feline behaviourist for advice. They will come to your home to observe and advise, and may see something significant that could have been missed so far.
> 
> If you have pet insurance you will be covered as long as a vet makes the referral. Otherwise fees in the order of £75 a session are common. You may only need one session and a telephone follow-up, and it could be worth every penny if it solves the problem.


Was hoping it wouldn't come to that but looks like I will have to get a behaviourist to observe! Thank you so much for all the advice though, it was worth trying everything we can think of first.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

I've just thought... could it be that he does not like the litter mat? I've done a bit of cleaning today and have now removed the mat. Fingers crossed it was because he was put off by the sensation and this is the problem!!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

smoking guns said:


> I've just thought... could it be that he does not like the litter mat? I've done a bit of cleaning today and have now removed the mat. Fingers crossed it was because he was put off by the sensation and this is the problem!!


It's certainly a possibility, and worth removing it just to see if it makes a difference. Fingers crossed!


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Sigh, removing the mat worked for 3 days, but this morning I found a lovely little pile by the door... But last night I wasn't home until 10.30pm and I was so tired I just went to bed (OH was in all evening after work so did all the "chores"). He definitely has a bigger bond with me so perhaps this is because he was feeling stressed I was barely home? Like anxiety separation? I hope not and I think it's unlikely anyway as the poo was done this morning rather than last night. Kitty I wish you could just tell me what's wrong!!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Sorry to hear that SG. It was worth a try, removing the mat, and at least we can now rule that out as the cause.

Separation anxiety might be a possible cause, though I wouldn't expect it to affect him so much if he has your OH's company whilst you are out. It might be to more to do with change to the little fellow's routine - maybe your OH does things slightly differently to you [e.g. meal time ] Cats can be very sensitive to small changes in their routine.

Does your OH give him a lot of attention when you are out do you think? Just in case it is anything to do with you not being at home, I'd make a point of making a big fuss of your cat as soon as you come in each time, so he feels reassured and his (possible) anxiety levels fall. .

I have found that if one is able to persevere with the detective work, the solution is often found in the end. Otherwise the feline behaviourist might be an option.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

chillminx said:


> Sorry to hear that SG. It was worth a try, removing the mat, and at least we can now rule that out as the cause.
> 
> Separation anxiety might be a possible cause, though I wouldn't expect it to affect him so much if he has your OH's company whilst you are out. It might be to more to do with change to the little fellow's routine - maybe your OH does things slightly differently to you [e.g. meal time ] Cats can be very sensitive to small changes in their routine.
> 
> ...


Ooh I'm definitely not giving up on the detective work until I've exhausted literally every conceivable possibility!

As far as I'm aware, my OH is quite good with him when on his own, although sometimes he does get frustrated when kitten wants to play but he wants to play Assassin's Creed haha. So I think sometimes he just ignores him rather than indulges him when he "acts up", so to speak. By acting up I mean doing the things he's learned that will get our attention immediately eg. scrabbling around under the sofa we're sitting on haha. Meal times I believe are pretty standard - he knows to chop up his pate style food etc, I don't tend to do anything special otherwise.

When I come home I do fuss him a lot anyway; I pick him up and snuggle him and give him lots of strokes - my OH does the same (because he goes completely soft when it comes to cats!). So even if it's anxiety-related, I can't think of what else we could do! He is very clingy, particularly with me, but if I am not around he will hang around as close as possible to my OH too.

We have considered a second kitten to keep him company in case that would help, the only thing is that obviously this is not a definite way of fixing as they may not get along, or we might get both kittens going all over the place due to stress, or whatever... Plus we don't really have anywhere else to place a third tray unless we have it in our bedroom - which we are not keen on at all.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Sounds as though you and your OH are doing all the right things with kitty, SG. 

It does sound as though the little fellow needs quite a lot of attention, and it is possible getting another kitten for him to play with may help. But it's not something I'd advise atm, too much of a risk when there's an unresolved issue such as the soiling, as it could add fuel to the fire as it were.

Back to the detective work.


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## Azhar (May 22, 2014)

Hey Smoking Guns! Been reading your post and been hoping that kitty will do her number 2 in the litter tray to relieve you of the stress. May be I might have missed this being said but have you tried feliway. As mentioned above about routine and how the smallest of changes to us could mean a lot to the cat. Perhaps feliway might help bring down those anxiety levels, even if there is a small element of it, and calm your kitty down and get him/her back in to the litter tray to do the business.

Again, fingers crossed everything gets resolved asap....


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks Azhar, I never really thought about Feliway for some reason! I think I will get one and plug it in, anything to help really.


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## AwesomeCats (May 4, 2015)

I had the same problem. The solution was simply to change litterbox. When i bought a new litterbox i just put some toilet paper on it and my cat started again use it. Toilet paper was the only material that my cat liked.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

AwesomeCats said:


> I had the same problem. The solution was simply to change litterbox. When i bought a new litterbox i just put some toilet paper on it and my cat started again use it. Toilet paper was the only material that my cat liked.


Putting Puppy training pads in the litterbox instead of cat litter is often acceptable to cats who are litterbox refusers.


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

AwesomeCats said:


> I had the same problem. The solution was simply to change litterbox. When i bought a new litterbox i just put some toilet paper on it and my cat started again use it. Toilet paper was the only material that my cat liked.


I did change to a bigger litter tray when I removed the litter mat but there were still accidents. However it may have just had to take a bit of getting used to as he hasn't gone outside his tray for a couple of days now. Although there has been a bit of an upset with the loft insulation being done last Friday and having loads of stuff from the loft sitting around the flat! Since putting everything back it seems to have jolted him back to normal... We'll see if he starts going on the carpet again, if so I'll try getting a Feliway plug in.


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