# Since when has it be ok for members to take the p*ss out of someones religion?



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I personaly find it very offensive that twice in the last couple of weeks the Jehovah's Witnesses religion has had the p*ss taken out of it on this forum.I thought our members could rise about that sort of crap.*


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't think people are taking the p*ss out of the religion as such, more the fact that JW's persist on preaching to all and sundry.

If people were to maintain a degree of privacy about their beliefs, others would be more tolerant.

If I really wanted to know more about a particular faith, I would make a point of finding out. I don't need people on my doorstep, week after week, telling me what I should be thinking.

Religion, faith or belief is a personal thing. It should be kept that way.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Don't know where this has been happening but people always have a go at religion in general on here. No one ever usually gives a sh*t and being vaguely xtian I get pissed off and disappear for a day or two.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

MoggyBaby said:


> I don't think people are taking the p*ss out of the religion as such, more the fact that JW's persist on preaching to all and sundry.
> 
> If people were to maintain a degree of privacy about their beliefs, others would be more tolerant.
> 
> ...


*I know some people might get fed up with them knocking on doors but they are only doing what they believe is right.
If we did the same about other religions it would be wrong and the threads would be closed.*


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *I know some people might get fed up with them knocking on doors but they are only doing what they believe is right.
> If we did the same about other religions it would be wrong and the threads would be closed.*


Well no, we had a thread about christians and muslims a few months back.
No one has a problem with what others believe, the problem lies with their beliefs being pushed on people in their own home.
I will not be called evil for not going to church and celebrating xmas and birthdays etc. I have no time for anyone who wants to push beliefs onto me.
I honestly dont understand why your bothered.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Oh if this is about door knocking I think if people say I don't have time/am uninterested and the people knocking wont bugger off that is unfair, just like it is if its a double glazing salesman, if people don't want to know others should respect that.

If people do it politely I'm not bothered at all, but I do dislike it when people wont just leave it.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Well no, we had a thread about christians and muslims a few months back.
> No one has a problem with what others believe, the problem lies with their beliefs being pushed on people in their own home.
> I will not be called evil for not going to church and celebrating xmas and birthdays etc. I have no time for anyone who wants to push beliefs onto me.
> I honestly dont understand why your bothered.


I'm afraid I feel the same. I don't want people preaching their religion on my doorstep, it's one of my pet hates and I don't answer the door to them as I don't answer the door to anybody that I'm not expecting such as salesmen who try to get you to swap your electric/gas etc. Personally I think all door to door calling should be stopped as these days it's getting dangerous opening your door to strangers especially for older people.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Not sure what threads they are Jan but no-one should be taken the pi** out of


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

If they feel they have the right knock on peoples doors inflicting their relegion onto others then they need to accept that NOT all folk are going to accept this with open arms! And folk have a right to moan about em too! just like some would a conservative candidate knocking on their door!
And as for extracting the urine - it ain't just the Jehovahs witness's that are subjected to this! OK maybe not relegion but look at the irish! Being able to laugh at onesself is a great attribute imo- and somefolk are just too serious.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

harley bear said:


> Well no, we had a thread about christians and muslims a few months back.
> No one has a problem with what others believe, the problem lies with their beliefs being pushed on people in their own home.
> I will not be called evil for not going to church and celebrating xmas and birthdays etc. I have no time for anyone who wants to push beliefs onto me.
> I honestly dont understand why your bothered.


*Well thats strange as JW's don't go to church either.*


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *I know some people might get fed up with them knocking on doors but they are only doing what they believe is right.
> *


I respect the right of others to believe what they wish. *EQUALLY*, I expect them to respect *MY* wish of not being disturbed in my own home.

Respect is a two way street.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Well thats strange as JW's don't go to church either.*


Theres a post on the thread in question that states that someones elderly mother was told she was evil for not going to church.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

I have to agree with Janice here and I thought about posting as much on other thread, but wondered was it worth the ****

Personally I have found a simple "Thank you, but I have my own spiritual beliefs" is more than enough and unless you engage in conversation, you can politely smile and close door, with a "take care".

We had alovely Jehovahs Witness family next door and my mum was friends with the mum, while we were good pals with their daughter .... and you know what? They were LOVELY people. Did they try and convert us? Nope.

If everyone was lucky enough to have such a nice family as neighbours, they would be very lucky ...


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

harley bear said:


> Theres a post on the thread in question that states that someones elderly mother was told she was evil for not going to church.


*Well someone is mistaken,i can assure you no JW would want someone going to church.It goes against all they believe.*


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> I have to agree with Janice here and I thought about posting as much on other thread, but wondered was it worth the ****
> 
> Personally I have found a simple "Thank you, but I have my own spiritual beliefs" is more than enough and unless you engage in conversation, you can politely smile and close door, with a "take care".
> 
> ...


Where we used to live we had a family ofJehovahs witnesses near us, and agree they were lovely! But i'll still moan about em!
And whilst on the subject! cannot believe that some bang on about freedom of speech! no wonder we have lost it!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

I don't have a problem with anyones beliefs but religious or spiritual beliefs are private to the individual and tbh anyone who knocks on someones door to sell them something (wether thats windows or religion) is fundamentally rude IMO. To be honest i feel the same about the new trend of charities trying to get you to sign up for monthly payments at the door. I do not do ANY business on my doorstep !!

It's nothing to do with the religion for me it's about manners. I think it is terribly bad manners to disturb someone in their own home to try and sell them something they haven't asked for. I will be polite to a a degree as i respect they are simply trying to do a job but if they don't remove themselves immediately when i politely tell them i am not interested then they get what they get and thats not always polite from me.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Where we used to live we had a family ofJehovahs witnesses near us, and agree they were lovely! But i'll still moan about em!
> And whilst on the subject! cannot believe that some bang on about freedom of speech! no wonder we have lost it!


*If thats aimed at me,i have no problem with freedom of speech.But i don't like one rule for 1 and another for others.*


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

It was my Mother Janice that was told she was evil for not going to church. My Mother has perfevctly good hearing and was not mistaken.

As for taking the pi$$, I do not take the pi$$ out of anyone -as far as I am concerned anyone can believe in what they want as long as they dont go calling old people names!


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *If thats aimed at me,i have no problem with freedom of speech.But i don't like one rule for 1 and another for others.*


Whats it got to do about one rule for one and another for another?


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Whats it got to do about one rule for one and another for another?


im confused too :001_huh:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


RAINYBOW said:



I don't have a problem with anyones beliefs but religious or spiritual beliefs are private to the individual and tbh anyone who knocks on someones door to sell them something (wether thats windows or religion) is fundamentally rude IMO. To be honest i feel the same about the new trend of charities trying to get you to sign up for monthly payments at the door. I do not do ANY business on my doorstep !!

It's nothing to do with the religion for me it's about manners. I think it is terribly bad manners to disturb someone in their own home to try and sell them something they haven't asked for. I will be polite to a a degree as i respect they are simply trying to do a job but if they don't remove themselves immediately when i politely tell them i am not interested then they get what they get and thats not always polite from me.

Click to expand...

When did you last know of a JW trying to sell you something?



gorgeous said:



It was my Mother Janice that was told she was evil for not going to church. My Mother has perfevctly good hearing and was not mistaken.

As for taking the pi$$, I do not take the pi$$ out of anyone -as far as I am concerned anyone can believe in what they want as long as they dont go calling old people names!

Click to expand...

I can tell you 100% a JW would not tell someone they are evil for not going to church.Why would they?*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

To be honest Janice i don't think there is one rule for one etc, Religious beliefs are treated with equal disrespect on here generally anyway


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> When did you last know of a JW trying to sell you something?
> 
> I can tell you 100% a JW would not tell someone they are evil for not going to church.Why would they?*


They are trying to sell you their religion, just because they arent asking you to pay for it its the same principal.


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

harley bear said:


> im confused too :001_huh:


I would expect if anyone googles it there would be jokes in abundance about every race & relegionthat there ever was


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> When did you last know of a JW trying to sell you something?
> 
> I can tell you 100% a JW would not tell someone they are evil for not going to church.Why would they?*


I can tell you 100% that they did. But thank you for your comments - much appreciated. But on this occasion I shall choose to believe my Mother. Thanks again!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I would expect if anyone googles it there would be jokes in abundance about every race & relegionthat there ever was


course there would be.


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## Altered Angel (Apr 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Well thats strange as JW's don't go to church either.*


Or Celebrate Birthdays or Christmas


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> It's nothing to do with the religion for me it's about manners. I think it is terribly bad manners to disturb someone in their own home to try and sell them something they haven't asked for. I will be polite to a a degree as i respect they are simply trying to do a job but if they don't remove themselves immediately when i politely tell them i am not interested then they get what they get and thats not always polite from me.


Of course they aren't trying to do a "job"  I think I am right in saying it's part of their religion to evangelise ... spread the word, as with Mormons.

I don't like being disturbed at home either, but I respect and to be honest in some way admire them for living their religion. I personally have never found reason to be rude to them or speak in any way that is not polite to these people ...


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> course there would be.


There are also jokes about sexuality, gender and disablity, but few would consider them acceptable ... not anyone with any level of intelligence.


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## HelloKittyHannah (Nov 18, 2010)

I haven't seen anyone taking the P, just people that get frustrated about being preached to in their own home (and quite right they should be annoyed imo!)
Would it be ok for me to go door to door preaching my LACK of religious beliefs and saying that anyone that doesn't follow my LACK of beliefs somehow needs to be saved? NO! I think people would swiftly call the police and I'd be arrested for harrassment 

I don't have to deal with door to door people as I simply don't answer the door unless I'm expecting someone.
The one time I accidentally answered the door to some JW's (I was expecting someone else) it was short and sweet, they simply introduced themselves and offered me a leaflet (which I politely declined) however I remember when they used to call at my Mum's house when I was young, there used to be some incredibly stubborn ones that would put their foot in the door so you couldn't close it on them!  My Mum used to get so irate!

There were 2 JW kids in my first school and they were always left out of assembly and had to sit out of all the Christmas activities. The girl actually used to get really upset sometimes  Nice kids though!
I have nothing against anybody's religion as long as they don't shove it down my throat on my own doorstep.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Anyhow I am off to work now - so hope that we get a happy ending to this 'debate'.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

gorgeous said:


> Anyhow I am off to work now - so hope that we get a happy ending to this 'debate'.


Let us hope so, there is enough religious intolerance in the world .... And look at the result


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> There are also jokes about sexuality, gender and disablity, but few would consider them acceptable ... not anyone with any level of intelligence.


BUT they do have a CHOICE as to whether they wish to google them and consequestly read them!

JW's give you no choice! they bang on your door and start ramming it down your throat! AND if you are nice to them they persist! You are often left with NO choice but to
a - walk away
b be rude


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

gorgeous said:


> Anyhow I am off to work now - so hope that we get a happy ending to this 'debate'.


I dont understand why that thread had to be turned into a debate tbh.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> BUT they do have a CHOICE as to whether they wish to google them and consequestly read them!
> 
> JW's give you no choice! they bang on your door and start ramming it down your throat! AND if you are nice to them they persist! You are often left with NO choice but to
> a - walk away
> b be rude


Give em an inch and they will take a bloody mile! I once took leaflets off someone once and every single week they were knocking on my door trying to convert me! I was 13! Soon got peed off with it.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> JW's give you no choice! they bang on your door and start ramming it down your throat! AND if you are nice to them they persist! You are often left with NO choice but to
> a - walk away
> b be rude


All I say is that I have my own beliefs and politely and slowly close the door as I say a simple thank you 

No need for rudeness, they just turn and walk away 

I find salesmen pushy mind you, but use the same tactic.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> I dont understand why that thread had to be turned into a debate tbh.


Maybe because you are posting on a forum ... that's what often happens on these places hun


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## iheartsonic (Jan 17, 2011)

I probably wouldn't be half as intolerant with cold-callers (because that is exactly what they are if they don't have an appointment with me!) if when told I'm not interested they PERSIST! 

I don't know what it is about, "No thank you" that some people don't get. If I've said no, that is that. And persistance doesn't pay off with me, it makes me cross. This is not limited to JW's and Mormons.


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

I have nothing against them, I just find they call at the wrong times and when I talk to them, I am too polite to tell them I am busy so end up making them a cup of tea and accepting leaflets etc... I give them an hour or so of my time before making an excuse...such as ' I have to collect my daughter'
I know I am like this hence why I try to avoid the situation, so I ignore the door if I know its them. 

I dont do this to just 'JW' I have done this with all types of salemen too, I think all the cold callers knock on my door purely for a cup of tea 


My auntie was a devout christian and she would try and convert me everytime I saw her, I would just listen. It doesnt mean I am taking the pee out of her, nor the others.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Maybe because you are posting on a forum ... that's what often happens on these places hun


There was reason to accuse people of taking the piss was there? People were only saying how they felt about them knocking on their doors etc there was no religious hatred of any kind! 
As someone has already said its freedom of speech! Just because someone chooses to disagree doesnt automatically mean that people are againts their belief. People just want to be left alone.


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Give em an inch and they will take a bloody mile! I once took leaflets off someone once and every single week they were knocking on my door trying to convert me! I was 13! Soon got peed off with it.


I had exactly the samewhen I was first married, a lovely lady . who made a habit of calling every sunday after (just as I was seeing to the yorkshires) I was never rude to her! but in the end the onlymway I got rid of her was by ignoring the door! (I used to have to practically hide from her) And yes! I am VERY blunt now! Fortunately they do not come to my door but ring my bell on one of my gates, The dogs go out and I just say can you move away please, then turn around and walk away. The normally contiune waving their leaflets at me - and yes! I am not saying I am particulary rude the second time of telling - but am very firm!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I dont particularly like the knocking on the door and yes sometimes it does get irritating..... but we just say "sorry we are christian faith" and off they tootle


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> I don't have a problem with anyones beliefs but religious or spiritual beliefs are private to the individual and tbh anyone who knocks on someones door to sell them something (wether thats windows or religion) is fundamentally rude IMO. To be honest i feel the same about the new trend of charities trying to get you to sign up for monthly payments at the door. I do not do ANY business on my doorstep !!
> 
> It's nothing to do with the religion for me it's about manners. I think it is terribly bad manners to disturb someone in their own home to try and sell them something they haven't asked for. I will be polite to a a degree as i respect they are simply trying to do a job but if they don't remove themselves immediately when i politely tell them i am not interested then they get what they get and thats not always polite from me.




```

```
I agree with this, whether politian, double glazing etc or even religion, i once had a col calling double glazing man, im sorry but after repeatedly saying no, i went onto the path eith him, i turned round and said what do you see on the front of the house, he daid windows, so i said yep you can see i got them, and shut the door on him. In respect of religious knock knocks, luckily we dont have many but the ones we have, have always been polite and understand no thanks,

Dont get me on to the subject of junk mail tho


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> *There was reason to accuse people of taking the piss was there? *People were only saying how they felt about them knocking on their doors etc there was no religious hatred of any kind!
> As someone has already said its freedom of speech! Just because someone chooses to disagree doesnt automatically mean that people are againts their belief. People just want to be left alone.


They were though ...

I am wondering how some of the negative and quite downright nasty posts would make any of our members or of course visitors feel if they are Jehovah's Witnesses 

Not very nice I would imagine ...


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

I agree with everyone else, I don't like anyone coming to my door and telling me what I should believe. I have lived as a Catholic for years and gone to Catholic schools and church until I was old enough to make my own mind up. 

We had some lovely JWs knock on the day of the royal wedding and they basically told us what they believed and I told them what I believed and that was it.

I'm not sure whether it was because my school was Catholic but when we were taught about the JW religion it seemed to me that they where intolerant to other religions, but I don't know if certain denomination schools put a slant on religious education depending on what religion it is.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Of course they aren't trying to do a "job"  I think I am right in saying it's part of their religion to evangelise ... spread the word, as with Mormons.
> 
> I don't like being disturbed at home either, but I respect and to be honest in some way admire them for living their religion. I personally have never found reason to be rude to them or speak in any way that is not polite to these people ...


A "job" is a task, they are performing a task or doing a "job" they have made it that days "work" to knock on peoples doors and spread the word. Job and Work doesn't necessarily mean "employment" 

Like i said i have no problem with religion (its actually laughable to suggest i do given the "debates" i have had on here before" but i do take issue with anyone knocking my door uninvited, like i said it's manners IMO BUT if you read my post you will see i will politely tell anyone at my door i am not interested in the first instance but beyond that i will be rude because i have kids to look after sometimes so they take priority over me being held up on my doorstep by some random person.

Can't say we have a particular problem here so maybe it depends on where you live


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> They were though ...
> 
> I am wondering how some of the negative and quite downright nasty posts would make any of our members or of course visitors feel if they are Jehovah's Witnesses
> 
> Not very nice I would imagine ...


No one is telling them they are wrong in what they believe.... its up to them... people are just stating they dont want it shoved in their face in their own home!
And as for JW visiting pf it might educate them to what people really feel about people knocking on their door trying to get them to convert! Maybe they should get stalls with their little leaflets and leave everyone alone!

No other religion recruits by door knocking do they?


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

My personal feeling is that I'd rather answer the door to a JW than a bailiff! Many on here must have lead a sheltered life if a JW is the biggest problem knocking on the door. 

My personal experience is that for around a year when I was a kid, my best friend was a JW. His family loved me to bits and they treated me like one of their own. I used to go with them to the Kingdom Hall each week and it was something I really looked forward to. Athough they didn't celebrate Christmas, they had no problem with me taking over my new games on Christmas day and joining in with a game of Mousetrap. I was rather jealous that my friend got to miss assembly each morning, but other than that there were no differences between us.

As an adult, the only thing I now find odd, is that Christians are told that Jesus wanted them to go spread the word of God, yet it takes a religion that does not believe in Jesus to actually get up off their bums and do so.


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> Of course they aren't trying to do a "job"  I think I am right in saying it's part of their religion to evangelise ... spread the word, as with Mormons.
> 
> I don't like being disturbed at home either, but I respect and to be honest in some way admire them for living their religion. I personally have never found reason to be rude to them or speak in any way that is not polite to these people ...


This, it is part of their religion that they must spread the word but I have never ever ever met a rude pushy JW, they are always polite and well spoken and when told that I'm not interested and that they should keep their booklets and leaflets as I won't read them and they will only go into recycling they usually thank me for being honest and polite, and I haven't read the thread in question but I would be very dubious of a JW telling someone they are evil for attending church, a catholic maybe  but not a JW.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> A "job" is a task, they are performing a task or doing a "job" they have made it that days "work" to knock on peoples doors and spread the word. Job and Work doesn't necessarily mean "employment"
> 
> Like i said i have no problem with religion (its actually laughable to suggest i do given the "debates" i have had on here before" but i do take issue with anyone knocking my door uninvited, like i said it's manners IMO BUT if you read my post you will see i will politely tell anyone at my door i am not interested in the first instance but beyond that i will be rude because i have kids to look after sometimes so they take priority over me being held up on my doorstep by some random person.
> 
> Can't say we have a particular problem here so maybe it depends on where you live


Good heavens, you'd think the simple act of knocking on someones door was the end of the world ... seriously I can't understand why people are so worked up about an occasional call from a Jehovah's Witness 

It takes lesss than minute to say a polite "thank's but no thank's" and close the door. :crazy:


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

GreyHare said:


> I haven't read the thread in question but I would be very dubious of a JW telling someone they are evil for attending church, a catholic maybe  but not a JW.


well knowing Gorgeous I am pretty confident that she would NOT have made it up! So spect she had a pushy one then eh!


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## iheartsonic (Jan 17, 2011)

classixuk said:


> My personal feeling is that I'd rather answer the door to a JW than a bailiff! Many on here must have lead a sheltered life if a JW is the biggest problem knocking on the door.


Yeah, those guys are scary as hell


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

A group of jw were heading towards my house last saturday,they are not hard to spot:skep:
I just dont answer the door as I dont want to be preached to..at my own front door as they never take no for an answer and try to be to nicey nicey


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

classixuk said:


> My personal feeling is that I'd rather answer the door to a JW than a bailiff! Many on here must have lead a sheltered life if a JW is the biggest problem knocking on the door.
> 
> My personal experience is that for around a year when I was a kid, my best friend was a JW. His family loved me to bits and they treated me like one of their own. I used to go with them to the Kingdom Hall each week and it was something I really looked forward to. Athough they didn't celebrate Christmas, they had no problem with me taking over my new games on Christmas day and joining in with a game of Mousetrap. I was rather jealous that my friend got to miss assembly each morning, but other than that there were no differences between us.
> 
> As an adult, the only thing I now find odd, is that Christians are told that Jesus wanted them to go spread the word of God, yet it takes a religion that does not believe in Jesus to actually get up off their bums and do so.


Most moderate religion is based on personal beliefs and rituals so it's unlikely there would have been much difference from you or me in their day to day lives anyway  Like with most religions 

Every fanatic has the ability to "spread the word" Have you ever heard a football bore banging on and don't get my Dad started on Motorbikes


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> I can tell you 100% a JW would not tell someone they are evil for not going to church.Why would they?*


Jan, after several weeks of chatting, I had JWs calling god, mother nature 
I'm sure they would call their meeting houses a church if they thought they could get through to someone that way.
I must say, after spending 3 weeks of these people chatting to me (I was bored) they ended up getting pretty nasty when they couldn't change my mind.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Good heavens, you'd think the simple act of knocking on someones door was the end of the world ... seriously I can't understand why people are so worked up about an occasional call from a Jehovah's Witness
> 
> It takes lesss than minute to say a polite "thank's but no thank's" and close the door. :crazy:


Are you reading my posts


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> No one is telling them they are wrong in what they believe.... its up to them... people are just stating they dont want it shoved in their face in their own home!


They would only enter your home if invited. If you consider the invariable, polite and intelligent conversation they make ... as shoving it in your face ... as someone has said, you must have lived a very sheltered life 

Try working in a A and E department on a weekend and you'll have stuff shoved in your face


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

rona said:


> Jan, after several weeks of chatting, I had JWs calling god, mother nature


Now I do like the sound of that


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *I personaly find it very offensive that twice in the last couple of weeks the Jehovah's Witnesses religion has had the p*ss taken out of it on this forum.I thought our members could rise about that sort of crap.*


I think with respect, most members who get fed up of Jehovahs witness's is the fact they come knocking on our doors Disturbing us and try to ram their beliefs down out throats :mad5:.....

I for one Don't want to know about their Religeon it doe's not concern me and it's not part of my life or beliefs.

Once you open the door they will not take no for an answer they talk over you when you tell them you are not interested and are Very Rude in lots of ways...

I do DO NOT want them at my Door AND I tell them so.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> Good heavens, you'd think the simple act of knocking on someones door was the end of the world ... seriously I can't understand why people are so worked up about an occasional call from a Jehovah's Witness
> 
> It takes lesss than minute to say a polite "thank's but no thank's" and close the door. :crazy:


I would never be outright rude to anyone unless absolutely forced to be. This includes JW's, door-to-door salesmen & even cold callers on the phone. However, if they DO NOT respond in an acceptable manner to my "No thank you, I do not need / want/ desire your product (be it faith or windows)" then my pleasant, polite demeanour will slip into a firm "Please go away, I am not interested". If THAT fails then I reserve the right to be more vocal. Fortunately the latter rarely happens.

And I think 'occasional' is open to interpretation - does 36 visits a year come under 'occasional'???


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> They would only enter your home if invited. If you consider the invariable, polite and intelligent conversation they make ... as shoving it in your face ... as someone has said, you must have lived a very sheltered life
> 
> Try working in a A and E department on a weekend and you'll have stuff shoved in your face


It's shoving it in your face because they invade your own space.
I must admit to finding a good percentage of what they preach very interesting. It's the existence of god which was their stumbling point with me, and of course, that's insurmountable


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> They would only enter your home if invited. If you consider the invariable, polite and intelligent conversation they make ... as shoving it in your face ... as someone has said, you must have lived a very sheltered life
> 
> Try working in a A and E department on a weekend and you'll have stuff shoved in your face


Dont tell me i have lived a sheltered life, you dont even know me!

They walk on your property without being invited! 'polite and intelligent conversation' tbph i dont give a hoot what anyones got to say whos trying to push their beliefs onto me, im just not interested in what any of them have to say because i will NEVER be interested in converting.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Most moderate religion is based on personal beliefs and rituals so it's unlikely there would have been much difference from you or me in their day to day lives anyway  Like with most religions
> 
> Every fanatic has the ability to "spread the word" Have you ever heard a football bore banging on and don't get my Dad started on Motorbikes


I'd swap your dad going on about motorbikes for my dad going on about his latest 'gambling system'. My dad even knows the exact order of every number on the roulette wheel! :



rona said:


> Jan, after several weeks of chatting, I had JWs calling god, mother nature
> I'm sure they would call their meeting houses a church if they thought they could get through to someone that way.
> *I must say, after spending 3 weeks of these people chatting to me (I was bored) they ended up getting pretty nasty when they couldn't change my mind*.


But you know that's because they were nasty people Rona, and not because they were JW's?


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I dont think we can speak for ALL JW's or any other religion when it comes to what or how they say things - I know a certain christian who likes to call those who dont believe in god or her way of thinking "evil" and "Devilish" - you have satan in you is one she uses regularly as well! Now I dont believe for one minute that ALL christians act like this in fact I would say this person is more the exception than the rule as are most extremists when it comes to religion - but im sure they do exist in most religions - that said we cannot tarr everyone with the same brush


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I would expect if anyone googles it there would be jokes in abundance about every race & relegionthat there ever was


* God you confuse me.Who has said anything about jokes? Or is taking the p*ss a joke? If so lets pick on all religions.*


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

We have had them here and we used to say "sorry we are busy", this went on for ages, eventually it got on our nerves, yes they have their beliefs but when they put their hands out to stop our door from closing and then drop the leaflet through the gap (still talking) that is what gets my goat up. I dont hate them personally not at all, but they do persist for quite a while even after being told sorry we haven't got the time now or we are busy. These were younger lads around 25year old, but the older ones are usually nicer and always say "thank you have a nice day", now I dont mind them knocking.


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

classixuk said:


> But you know that's because they were nasty people Rona, and not because they were JW's?


No, I think it's because they thought I was taking the pee out of them, I wasn't, they just couldn't persuade me


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

rona said:


> It's shoving it in your face because they invade your own space.
> I must admit to finding a good percentage of what they preach very interesting. It's the existence of god which was their stumbling point with me, and of course, that's insurmountable


So someone knocking at your door uninvited is shoving stuff in your face ... seriously :biggrin:

I've never had a Jehovahs Witness EVER invade my space ... no more than the postie does when he calls uninvited (cheeky b*gger ... how dare he) with a parcel for my neighbour 

I had the local fire brigade call yesterday offerring to fit a smoke alarm ... the hunky devil was I guess in my face (at the door uninvited) for about 5 minutes ... did he invade my personal space? Alas no 

But you can't have it all ways, if you pardon the pun


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *I know some people might get fed up with them knocking on doors but they are only doing what they believe is right.If we did the same about other religions it would be wrong and the threads would be closed.*


But they are NOT right to do this...It's actually classed as harrassment I mean someone unwanted at your door that will not go away....under if you could actually call the police to move them of your step.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

one of my best childhood friends was a jehovah's witness because her Mum was and i use to go to the kingdom hall with them, i even went on a camping holiday with them and a group of their jehovah friends, and i can tell you they arnt all kind and nice natured, even her Mum was really strict with her and her siblings she was scary! she wasnt a very nice lady at all tbh....so i suspect some are extra pushy when it comes to door to door preaching!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

classixuk said:


> I'd swap your dad going on about motorbikes for my dad going on about his latest 'gambling system'. My dad even knows the exact order of every number on the roulette wheel! :
> 
> But you know that's because they were nasty people Rona, and not because they were JW's?


Maybe we could get them together and they can go on at each other


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> So someone knocking at your door uninvited is shoving stuff in your face ... seriously :biggrin:
> 
> I've never had a Jehovahs Witness EVER invade my space ... no more than the postie does when he calls uninvited (cheeky b*gger ... how dare he) with a parcel for my neighbour
> 
> ...


I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I would not and do not except anyone at my door apart for the poppy sellers, no matter who they are.
When I'm at home it's my time and my space.
I'm x directory phone, so that I don't get cold calling there


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

classixuk said:


> My personal feeling is that I'd rather answer the door to a JW than a bailiff! Many on here must have lead a sheltered life if a JW is the biggest problem knocking on the door.
> 
> My personal experience is that for around a year when I was a kid, my best friend was a JW. His family loved me to bits and they treated me like one of their own. I used to go with them to the Kingdom Hall each week and it was something I really looked forward to. Athough they didn't celebrate Christmas, they had no problem with me taking over my new games on Christmas day and joining in with a game of Mousetrap. I was rather jealous that my friend got to miss assembly each morning, but other than that there were no differences between us.
> 
> As an adult, the only thing I now find odd, is that Christians are told that Jesus wanted them to go spread the word of God, yet it takes a religion that does not believe in Jesus to actually get up off their bums and do so.


*I'm confused classix,are you thinking JW's don't believe in jesus or have i misread your post?*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> one of my best childhood friends was a jehovah's witness because her Mum was and i use to go to the kingdom hall with them, i even went on a camping holiday with them and a group of their jehovah friends, and i can tell you they arnt all kind and nice natured, even her Mum was really strict with her and her siblings she was scary! she wasnt a very nice lady at all tbh....so i suspect some are extra pushy when it comes to door to door preaching!


When they had a local get together and people travelled, my mum had a spare room and we often had our neighbours friends who were JW's stay with us for kind of bed and breakfast ... so I guess my experiences as a child made me see these people for what they are HUMANS like us 

Not some kind of monster trying to barge their way into peoples homes and minds


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

rona said:


> I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I would not and do not except anyone at my door apart for the poppy sellers, no matter who they are.
> When I'm at home it's my time and my space.
> I'm x directory phone, so that I don't get cold calling there


We certainly will and I am sure we can


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

I always wear my pentagram They don't seem to like that:mad5:  WTF THEY Came to ME I Never ask them to come to me..What the hell has it got to with them :mad5::mad5::mad5: How Dare they preach to me unbloody invited oooooooooooooooooooooooh This thread has got me going ALREADY :mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5:

I'm going to get a BIG Sign made up to give them a CLEAR message NEVER to knock AGAIN


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

*My personal experience of JW's is i have found them to be some of the nicest people you could wish to meet. Also, just for the record....I studied with the JW's for a year and a half many years ago and know for a fact that they do not believe in going to church, so cannot see why they would suggest anyone should. I have them occassionally turn up knocking on my door these days but i just explain politely that i am busy and they just politely hand me a leaflet and leave. Is it possible to have the odd bad seed among them? Yes im sure it is but that would apply to ALL religions. I won't knock a religion for it having the odd one that goes against the grain. I respect everyone's beliefs. *


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> But they are NOT right to do this...It's actually classed as harrassment I mean someone unwanted at your door that will not go away....under if you could actually call the police to move them of your step.


I am sure you could and rightly so call the police if anyone would not leave your property ... but I've personally never found they hang around if you are firm, polite and close the door ... why would they? :biggrin:


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

snoopydo said:


> I always wear my pentagram They don't seem to like that:mad5:  WTF THEY Came to ME I Never ask them to come to me..What the hell has it got to with them :mad5::mad5::mad5: How Dare they preach to me unbloody invited oooooooooooooooooooooooh This thread has got me going ALREADY :mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5:
> 
> I'm going to get a BIG Sign made up to give them a CLEAR message NEVER to knock AGAIN


Why so vitriolic?


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Maybe we could get them together and they can go on at each other


LOL. Yeah. My dad can ride pillion down to the casino and then show your dad his latest 'system'. Your dad can then offer him a lift back home when he runs out of money.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Two of my good friends growing up were JW's and they and their family were always so nice and polite! they never pushed their religion on anyone and the only thing that used to bug me was when we were playing out and they got called in to get changed to go to the meetings - it never had an impact on our friendship though - in fact I dont think any of us even questioned it! oh to be a child again where we just take people for what they are - pity as adults we dont do the same sometimes


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Good heavens, you'd think the simple act of knocking on someones door was the end of the world ... seriously I can't understand why people are so worked up about an occasional call from a Jehovah's Witness
> 
> It takes lesss than minute to say a polite "thank's but no thank's" and close the door. :crazy:


Round here its not once in a while! They are in the town centre nearly everyday, and come knocking about once every 2 weeks. The same people insist on knocking and don't take no for an answer even though I tell them I have my own religion, and I respect you are doing what's expected of you by your own religion, but please leave me alone.

Charity workers are another thing that wind me up as well. In the town centre..... everyday its only £8 a month... if I gave to every charity it would cost me a fortune!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> I always wear my pentagram They don't seem to like that:mad5:  WTF THEY Came to ME I Never ask them to come to me..What the hell has it got to with them :mad5::mad5::mad5: How Dare they preach to me unbloody invited oooooooooooooooooooooooh This thread has got me going ALREADY :mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5:
> 
> I'm going to get a BIG Sign made up to give them a CLEAR message NEVER to knock AGAIN


Ooooh you are raging 

I don't wear a pentagram but the one on the hall wall is a bit of a give away


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

I find pushy politicians far ruder and harder to get rid of from my front door, but I was still polite to them, we used to make a cup of tea for the JW chap that used to call on my childhood home because we were up a hill at a dead end road in a little hamlet and he used to get dropped off in the village a few miles up the road, so when he got to us he used to look exhausted, but he knew my Mum had strong beliefs so he have a cup of tea and piece of cake and chat about the weather and then he would plod off till a few months later.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

rona said:


> Jan, after several weeks of chatting, I had JWs calling god, mother nature
> I'm sure they would call their meeting houses a church if they thought they could get through to someone that way.
> I must say, after spending 3 weeks of these people chatting to me (I was bored) they ended up getting pretty nasty when they couldn't change my mind.


*No rona they would never call their meeting house a church,thats why they call them "The Kingdom Hall".*


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I'm confused classix,are you thinking JW's don't believe in jesus or have i misread your post?*


LOL. Well spotted. It read back fine when I checked it, but that's because I know what I meant....to clarify..."don't believe in Jesus being God".


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

snoopydo said:


> I always wear my pentagram They don't seem to like that:mad5:  WTF THEY Came to ME I Never ask them to come to me..What the hell has it got to with them :mad5::mad5::mad5: How Dare they preach to me unbloody invited oooooooooooooooooooooooh This thread has got me going ALREADY :mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5:
> 
> I'm going to get a BIG Sign made up to give them a CLEAR message NEVER to knock AGAIN


And here lies the problem .....so much anger over something that really does not warrant that much venom


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

I'm open to all religious discussions regardless of if its at my door or in the middle of town (that happened a couple fo weeks back) its interesting to talk about and I have always found JW very very polite and accepting of my opinions (the fact I dont believe in god) but I am open to a good old chat about it.


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## bulldog200 (Mar 14, 2011)

We get quite a few JW at our door it does get a bit annoying ,but i think my dogs kinda scare them off ,they have there beliefs and i have mine and everyone else has theres , its a indevidual thing , if someone is religious thats there right , if someone isnt thats there right , no one should be judged for been or not been religious (I not saying anyone is judging ), on the other hand no one should have it forced down there throat if someone says "No thankyou " then that should be the end of it ,yeah JW can be very pushy but hey so can family and friends ,so can window sales people and i find " would you like to change your phone service " i find that the most annoying 
I had a JW friend and he was really nice yet i had a JW and she was a bit*h 

Oooooo i do love all you PFs


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

CharleyRogan said:


> Round here its not once in a while! They are in the town centre nearly everyday, and come knocking about once every 2 weeks.


I have NEVER seen them in the town, charity worker/phone/catalogue people yes ... have to weave in and out of crowds to avoid THEM 

Maybe see Jehovah's Witnesses 3 times a year, not seen any this year, but mat have been out 

To be honest a Jehovah's Witness knocking on my door and taking up ... say 2 mins max of my time is the very LEAST of my worries .... and long may it stay that way


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

CharleyRogan said:


> Round here its not once in a while! They are in the town centre nearly everyday, and come knocking about once every 2 weeks. The same people insist on knocking and don't take no for an answer even though I tell them I have my own religion, and I respect you are doing what's expected of you by your own religion, but please leave me alone.
> 
> Charity workers are another thing that wind me up as well. In the town centre..... everyday its only £8 a month... if I gave to every charity it would cost me a fortune!


*Are you sure your not confusing these people with Mormons? I've never known JW's to preach in town centres.*


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> When they had a local get together and people travelled, my mum had a spare room and we often had our neighbours friends who were JW's stay with us for kind of bed and breakfast ... so I guess my experiences as a child made me see these people for what they are HUMANS like us
> 
> Not some kind of monster trying to barge their way into peoples homes and minds


i know theyre HUMANS like us just making the point that as in all walks of life some wont be very nice, and when someone so religeous isnt very nice and they go round preaching to folk then that is the height of hypocrisy imo..


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

classixuk said:


> LOL. Well spotted. It read back fine when I checked it, but that's because I know what I meant....to clarify..."don't believe in Jesus being God".


*lol I guessed you might have made a mistake.*


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

MoggyBaby said:


> I would never be outright rude to anyone unless absolutely forced to be. This includes JW's, door-to-door salesmen & even cold callers on the phone. However, if they DO NOT respond in an acceptable manner to my "No thank you, I do not need / want/ desire your product (be it faith or windows)" then my pleasant, polite demeanour will slip into a firm "Please go away, I am not interested". If THAT fails then I reserve the right to be more vocal. Fortunately the latter rarely happens.
> 
> And I think 'occasional' is open to interpretation - does 36 visits a year come under 'occasional'???





Amethyst said:


> Now I do like the sound of that





Amethyst said:


> I am sure you could and rightly so call the police if anyone would not leave your property ... but I've personally never found they hang around if you are firm, polite and close the door ... *why would they? *:biggrin:


Becouse when they are at MY Door they seem to take great pleasure in taking root UNTIL I'm bloody well Converted They could be there for a week and it would NEVER happen.....:biggrin:

I guess I could ask them if they'd like a Tarot Reading or if they'd like to join me for a Seance to pass the time


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> i know theyre HUMANS like us just making the point that as in all walks of life some wont be very nice, and when someone so religeous isnt very nice and they go round preaching to folk then that is the height of hypocrisy imo..


If that is your experience then fair enough, thankfully it has never been mine when I have answered the door


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> i know theyre HUMANS like us just making the point that as in all walks of life some wont be very nice, and when someone so religeous isnt very nice and they go round preaching to folk then that is the height of hypocrisy imo..


They are NOT Humans they are a Alien lifeform that needs to prey on the unconverted until they have reached their mission to brainwash us all.....:biggrin:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> i know theyre HUMANS like us just making the point that as in all walks of life some wont be very nice, and when someone so religeous isnt very nice and they go round preaching to folk then that is the height of hypocrisy imo..


Yes that is true in all religion that is the case ----but we do have to try and remember not all are like that


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

and I am off to wedding..JW wedding..and I am well lost whether my navy dress will be ok?...

but those folks are actually a part of my OH family and I do like the bride...very, very nice people...
but it is sad we cannot celebrate anything else together....and this actually creates a division...before they become JW we met them at Xmas, birthdays etc...now it is weddings and funerals.......

and..no never felt they tried to sellus their faith ,..just were inviting us to their Bible reading etc...but not in a pushy way...


for one thing..they make good neigbours (we live next to their church...) and the crime rate in their community is very low....and their work ethos is admirable..they built that church in days!...


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

I know many JWs around here some of the schools are full of them. I found it a very diverse experience teaching them although some times of the year lesson planning was a flipping nightmare. Living in Cornwall the main religions are Christianity and JW. 

The children were always so polite. I do remember talking about Remembrance Day and the 4 small children I had requested to leave as they were not allowed to learn about war my teaching assistant who by chance was a JW was able to do an activity outside. 

Some topics I had to plan a whole new curriculum for them but they were mature enough to leave with a student teacher/ volunteer. When I got married a lady who was a cleaner at the fire station gave me the most beautiful card and although she had placed religious quote in it I didnt mind. 

At Christmas and on my Birthday she gave me a cardstating that she did not celebrate the occasions but was able to wish a friend well. 

The only thing that does bother me is on a day off sitting watching Jeremy Kylegetting ready for the action and *knock, knock, knock* or settling three beagles down for the evening to then hear *ding, dong ding dong* grrr I know what I believe and I know what I want I dont care if I go to heaven or hell as long as my life is happyI dont care if I get double glazing or not I dont care much for Sky TV. In fact if I want it Ill go out and get it 

That said I have never met a rude JW and of those I know I have never met a rude JW, the children are brought up to respect others and given the choice Id rather teach a class of JW children than half the kids I used to teach. 

Now Ill tell you what really grinds my gears

Its the night before your husbands birthday/dog show/ Christmas Eve/ a few minutes before an important meeting and some guy from the Church of Scientology thrusts a leaflet at you and asks if youd like a free stress test. I could quite happily tell him where to stick his stress probe but politely decline


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

just wanted to add, my sister in law and her family are jw's, i have heard all about it obviously but it isnt for me but i just wanted to clear the point up of them knocking on your door, it is their belief that a new system will soon be here and they must spread the word of jehova to everyone because when the new system is here, there cannot be one person in the world who can claim they have not heard of jehova to try to get into the new system so as many people as possible must be told this is what my sister in law has always told me and sometimes, you do have to think about things, they do get abused at door steps,ridiculed and the like, for what???? would you do it? i know i wouldnt i dont personally believe in all the things they say but there are certain things that are questionable i have them come round a couple of times a year and politely tell them my sil is a jw and i know all i need to know, thank you


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Are you sure your not confusing these people with Mormons? I've never known JW's to preach in town centres.*


They might be! But to me its the same principle, coming up to me trying to convert me to their religion. IMO if I want to find out about a religion then I would approach them myself 

I have no issue with other religions, but I have my own and they have theirs! Same with protestants, although I'm Catholic I don't have any beef with protestants just because they choose to follow something else!


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## iheartsonic (Jan 17, 2011)

Oh yes, the Mormons are in our town center daily. I am polite enough, I say no thank you and carry on. I don't appreciate being followed and having, "But.. But... Have you considered..." called at me. Please tell me how long must I put up with that before it's ok to tell them to eff off. Especially when I'm walking back down the street to go home and the same person ambushes me AGAIN!

"No thank you!" How hard is that to get your head around? 

I was walking very quickly with my 3 year old just last week through town, he'd had an accident and we didn't have any spare clothes so we were going home very quickly. I couldn't stop and yet I was still hounded! It's less about the preaching now and more about common sense! Was I going to make my boy stand there in wet pants while I discussed the existence of God or whatever? Oh gee, let me think... how about NO!?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> Becouse when they are at MY Door they seem to take great pleasure in taking root UNTIL I'm bloody well Converted They could be there for a week and it would NEVER happen.....:biggrin:
> 
> I guess I could ask them if they'd like a Tarot Reading or if they'd like to join me for a Seance to pass the time


Do you talk to them though and engage in conversation? Or can you not bring yourself to just politely cut them off and close door?

Seriously do not mention Tarot cards to anyone who you think's religion is going to be mortified about them ... and guess that's most ... thier shout.

I once took my cards in to read at a nursing home for another nurse on nights ...our agency nurse was a Born Again Christian ... Trust me on this one ... it was a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong night after that. I respected her beliefs by by 5.30 am I was ready to put my head down the sluice and pull the chain. Or better still her's 

Seriously though, if I had known her religion , I would NOT have taken them in to read at break time 

She WAS offended and I would not have deliberately wanted that.


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

Just to add that as someone christened into church of England... Although i rarely go church even i get a little peeved about people preaching outside churches, street corners and in the paper - if i want to go church i will. Its not so much what they preach about but how uncomfortable i feel saying no. 

Protests, street sellers, pushy charity collectors and preachers make me feel quite uncomfortable but id never take the pi55 out of any religion


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Do you talk to them though and engage in conversation? Or can you not bring yourself to just politely cut them off and close door?
> 
> Seriously do not mention Tarot cards to anyone who you think's religion is going to be mortified about them ... and guess that's most ... thier shout.
> 
> ...


Oh so if people are interested in tarrot cards then they will be offending JW and any other religious person? But its ok for them to make it well known to us what they believe even going as far as taking their beliefs door to door


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

snoopydo said:


> They are NOT Humans they are a Alien lifeform that needs to prey on the unconverted until they have reached their mission to brainwash us all.....:biggrin:


*They aren't out to brainwash anybody.But the fact that you know their mission is to get their message across to everyone proves they are doing a fine job.*


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Yes best not mention Tarot to religious folk, saves a lot of ear-ache!!

I happened to mention to my brother a few years back that I was interested in Tarot cards and it didn't go down too well. Hardly surprising as he is a Rev


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

harley bear said:


> Oh so if people are interested in tarrot cards then they will be offending JW and any other religious person? But its ok for them to make it well known to us what they believe even going as far as taking their beliefs door to door


*No they wont be offended but they will tell you why they don't agree with them.*


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

They don't go to Church as we know it but they do congregate at Kingdom Hall, I have only ever had one bad experience with a JW the rest have been polite and don't argue. I just tell them I have my own religious beliefs Thank you but have a nice day. The one I mentioned wasn't going to let me shut the door and he put his foot in the doorway, the dog put his foot in her mouth. He left without incident never to come back to my home. When he asked me about it I told him straight I'm home alone she's doing her job so you go do yours. He didn't get bit and he couldn't call the cops cause he was in my space. For the most part like all other people the majority are fine and I am as pleasant to them as I am to others that I do not personally know.


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

snoopydo said:


> They are NOT Humans they are a Alien lifeform that needs to prey on the unconverted until they have reached their mission to brainwash us all.....:biggrin:


No that would be David Icke and his little band of merry lizard people  (They may be the one religion that I don't fully respect)


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

CharleyRogan said:


> They might be! But to me its the same principle, coming up to me trying to convert me to their religion. IMO if I want to find out about a religion then I would approach them myself
> 
> I have no issue with other religions, but I have my own and they have theirs! Same with protestants, although I'm Catholic I don't have any beef with protestants just because they choose to follow something else!


*Mormons and JW's stand out because they are always smartly dressed,and people do confuse them.
I have no problem with people not liking their doors being knocked ect ect.My problem is with people taking the pee out of them.*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> Oh so if people are interested in tarrot cards then they will be offending JW and any other religious person? But its ok for them to make it well known to us what they believe even going as far as taking their beliefs door to door


Haven't a clue what you mean sorry, can you make it clearer?


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## niccipink (Nov 16, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *No they wont be offended but they will tell you why they don't agree with them.*


but why do they feel they have the right to do this  if i have tarot cards that is what i believe in, if they are jws i dont find that out about them and spend however long telling them why i dont agree with their religion, that would be rude and hurtful.


----------



## Guest (May 24, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Mormons and JW's stand out because they are always smartly dressed,and people do confuse them.
> I have no problem with people not liking their doors being knocked ect ect.My problem is with people taking the pee out of them.*





JANICE199 said:


> *I personaly find it very offensive that twice in the last couple of weeks the Jehovah's Witnesses religion has had the p*ss taken out of it on this forum.I thought our members could rise about that sort of crap.*


So whats this about then exactly! Folk on the FORUM as in your words 'taking the piss '

Or folks objecting to their personal space being invaded by em!

and you're confused!


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## alan g a (Feb 23, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> Oh if this is about door knocking I think if people say I don't have time/am uninterested and the people knocking wont bugger off that is unfair, just like it is if its a double glazing salesman, if people don't want to know others should respect that.
> 
> If people do it politely I'm not bothered at all, but I do dislike it when people wont just leave it.


I just show the JW's my blood doner card. That works every time. We are all entitled to our own beliefs but we shouldn't push it on others.


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

niccipink said:


> but why do they feel they have the right to do this  if i have tarot cards that is what i believe in, if they are jws i dont find that out about them and spend however long telling them why i dont agree with their religion, that would be rude and hurtful.


They would actually like that though and would talk politely about their beliefs and why they don't/can't believe in it and would listen respectfully to your beliefs and then normally end up agreeing to disagree, they are not monsters they are just people you have slightly different but strong religious beliefs to you.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

I respect everyones right to believe but sadly, many do not respect my right not to.  Tolerance works both ways, or should do!

My ex husband became a JW after I kicked him out and once he was one, refused to even say Happy Birthday to our daughters, let alone give them a present. (They were only 8 and 9 at the time) He pushed his beliefs at them at every opportunity and even tried to 'doorstep' me!  He gave up seeing them when he could not convert them and they have not seen him now for 18 years. Neither are bothered to be honest as my second husband gave them a proper father figure to love instead.

But even so, I would not knock JWs or any other belief system. Religion is the individuals choice. It just maddens me when my right not to believe is so frowned upon hence I have a great big notice front and back of my home which as well as stating no salesmen or canvassers also says no religious callers either!  I really cannot be doing with unwanted callers and apart from that, they make my dogs bark unnecessarily!

Saying all that though, I cannot see anything wrong with people relating their doorstep experiences? It does happen after all and as long as they are not insulting to the belief I see no harm in sounding off about it. I understand the annoyance it causes! I can remember it well!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

niccipink said:


> but why do they feel they have the right to do this  if i have tarot cards that is what i believe in, if they are jws i dont find that out about them and spend however long telling them why i dont agree with their religion, that would be rude and hurtful.


I really don't think Jehovahs Witnesses knock and ask if you have a deck of Tarot cards in the house 

My old family neighbours knew my mum was a Spiritualist and it didn't stop their friends occaisionally staying wiht us ... mum was never "converted" and neither were we :biggrin:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

niccipink said:


> but why do they feel they have the right to do this  if i have tarot cards that is what i believe in, if they are jws i dont find that out about them and spend however long telling them why i dont agree with their religion, that would be rude and hurtful.


*If you have a JW knock your door and you just say to them something along the lines of,sorry i have my own thoughts and religion i'm not intersted.The worst they are likely to do is ask your religion.Now if you dont want to tell them just say,sorry but i don't wish to discuss that and they will leave.*


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## niccipink (Nov 16, 2009)

GreyHare said:


> They would actually like that though and would talk politely about their beliefs and why they don't/can't believe in it and would listen respectfully to your beliefs and then normally end up agreeing to disagree, they are not monsters they are just people you have slightly different but strong religious beliefs to you.


if asked why in a conversation with a jw in everyday life then yes thats not a problem but not just launching into why they dont believe in them when not asked for the view. i dont have a problem with anyones religious beliefs its putting their views on people when not asked for i disagree with.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> So whats this about then exactly! Folk on the FORUM as in your words 'taking the piss '
> 
> Or folks objecting to their personal space being invaded by em!
> 
> and you're confused!


*Don't change the subject, which is people taking the p*ss out of other people's religion.Thats quite straight forward and plain..well i thought it was.*


----------



## niccipink (Nov 16, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *If you have a JW knock your door and you just say to them something along the lines of,sorry i have my own thoughts and religion i'm not intersted.The worst they are likely to do is ask your religion.Now if you dont want to tell them just say,sorry but i don't wish to discuss that and they will leave.*


but that isnt what you said you said they would tell you why they dont agree with it


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> So whats this about then exactly! Folk on the FORUM as in your words 'taking the piss '
> 
> Or folks objecting to their personal space being invaded by em!
> 
> and you're confused!


In fairness some of the other thread was pretty offensive in my opinion.

Again, and generalising, if somone ringing the bell and standing at your door is invading "personal space" I think you probably haven't had much life experience :001_huh:


----------



## niccipink (Nov 16, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I really don't think Jehovahs Witnesses knock and ask if you have a deck of Tarot cards in the house
> 
> My old family neighbours knew my mum was a Spiritualist and it didn't stop their friends occaisionally staying wiht us ... mum was never "converted" and neither were we :biggrin:


i didnt say they did i was quoting what someone said


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## Carla-Jade (Jul 28, 2010)

we have a JW in the family- just because i happen to disagree with that they believe still wont lead me to be rude when i get a call from them. i tell them that i was considering becoming a vicar so my mind really wont be changed. i just tell them that, smile & bid them good day. as has been siad before, manners cost nothing although i accept being disturbed at home especially when busy can be a bit of a pain in the backside


i have mates who are all religions- none of them bother me. im strong with what i believe in but i do prefer not to discuss it with people because its personal to me. i wear my cross but as a lot wear it as a fashion accessory i dont stand out with it. perhaps unlike most christians, im very interested in tarrot cards & such like. maybe im special


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> In fairness some of the other thread was pretty offensive in my opinion.
> 
> Again, and generalising, if somone ringing the bell and standing at your door is invading "personal space" I think you probably haven't had much life experience :001_huh:


Again wtf has that got to do with life experience ut:


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Don't change the subject, which is people taking the p*ss out of other people's religion.Thats quite straight forward and plain..well i thought it was.*


Look back at your opening post! Thought you were objecting to folk on the forum making light of JW's

funny how it's taking the piss when its summat you disagree with!

Back to my freedom of speech!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

niccipink said:


> i didnt say they did i was quoting what someone said


You confuse me further, even less idea now


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

niccipink said:


> but that isnt what you said you said they would tell you why they dont agree with it


*lol Ok i assumed you would have had to mention the tarrot cards to them in the first place otherwise how would they have known?*


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## niccipink (Nov 16, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> You confuse me further, even less idea now


confused again. try reading back.


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> In fairness some of the other thread was pretty offensive in my opinion.
> 
> Again, and generalising, if somone ringing the bell and standing at your door is invading "personal space" I think you probably haven't had much life experience :001_huh:


Probably had more then you will ever dream of having!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Look back at your opening post! Thought you were objecting to folk on the forum making light of JW's
> 
> funny how it's taking the piss when its summat you disagree with!
> 
> Back to my freedom of speech!


*DT yes i was objecting to people taking the pee,and still do.
Second point...as i stated before,if we are allowed to start taking the pee out of 1 religion then we "should" be allowed to do it to all.
3rd...AGAIN i don't like or believe in double standards/one rule for one but a different one for others.
Hope thats all sorted.*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> Again wtf has that got to do with life experience ut:


Because if you have lived such a sheltered life ... to the point where you believe someone *Gasp* knocking at your door uninvited and standing on your doorstep is "in your face" or "invading your personal space" you haven't really lived 

:laugh:


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## niccipink (Nov 16, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol Ok i assumed you would have had to mention the tarrot cards to them in the first place otherwise how would they have known?*


lol it was in the same situation as the girl (sorry cant remember posters name) who said she had taken tarot cards as reading to the nursing home for people on breaks and then the jw there started on about the tarot cards and was quoting your response to that. obviously in everyday life i didnt expect the jw to just come to my home and launch into a tarot speech lol.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Probably had more then you will ever dream of having!


If you say so :biggrin:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*pmsl I think we got our wires crossed somewhere along the line.*


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Because if you have lived such a sheltered life ... to the point where you believe someone *Gasp* knocking at your door uninvited and standing on your doorstep is "in your face" or "invading your personal space" you haven't really lived
> 
> :laugh:


I must have lived a sheltered life because i dont want no one preaching to me at my door they can go and ..... well leave.
When in reality its the people knocking on the doors of strangers preaching is living a sheltered life imo!

:laugh:


----------



## Guest (May 24, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *DT yes i was objecting to people taking the pee,and still do.
> Second point...as i stated before,if we are allowed to start taking the pee out of 1 religion then we "should" be allowed to do it to all.
> 3rd...AGAIN i don't like or believe in double standards/one rule for one but a different one for others.
> Hope thats all sorted.*


TBH Janice No! I don't know where you are coming from with the one rule for one and one for another, The are many many many subgests that go like this on the forum! It is called difference of opinion - just some relay their feelings in a different way to others,Some are more serious, some are not!
I see no difference with this being any different to many other past threads!


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## niccipink (Nov 16, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *pmsl I think we got our wires crossed somewhere along the line.*


lol hard to get things over in type and situations ppl describe get interpreted different.


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

harley bear said:


> I must have lived a sheltered life because i dont want no one preaching to me at my door they can go and ..... well leave.
> When in reality its the people knocking on the doors of strangers preaching is living a sheltered life imo!
> 
> :laugh:


Don't worry about living a sheltered life!  There are some that like to think they are the voice of experience yet have experienced jack all when push comes to shove!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Don't worry about living a sheltered life!  There are some that like to think they are the voice of experience yet have experienced jack all when push comes to shove!


I dont lol i can honestly say i have lived more life in my 24yrs and have more life experience than some 70yr olds. So im not fussed


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> I guess I could ask them if they'd like a Tarot Reading or if they'd like to join me for a Seance to pass the time


Yeah!....Hey buddy come on in...knickers off, and last one round the bonfire's a cissy...


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Don't worry about living a sheltered life!  There are some that like to think they are the voice of experience yet have experienced jack all when push comes to shove!


Who has rattled your cage today ... I know you had a rough day yesterday 

I think we all have experiences to share


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Should we be mollycoddling religons??Shouldnt they be able to take some insults and differences of opinion? I thought that was the whole point of faith!! 
If you believe in something then people having a b***h about it wont bother you coz you'll know you are right!!
I dont mind doorstep callers, Im always polite and they leave pretty sharpish. (I think I must look quite forbidding or something!!LOL)
Only thing that bugs me about JWs is if you have one as a patient who really needs a blood transfusion. Bit frustrating that you cant do anything much for them.. I did have a friend growing up who was a JW and you wouldnt have known what religon she was from looking at her.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

No I don't mention any of the above But it makes me want to..

I start by saying ''Sorry I'm not interested'' They start on about Can you read our booklet I say ''Sorry I'm not interested'' Once they saw a Rose Bush in my Garden and told me my Garden was Beautiful and Did I Thank God for it.

No I thanked my local Garden centre for the sale they had at the weekend  

I said no But I do Thank mother Nature Daily...They told me it was God. erm ok then whatever.

So I say Sorry I'm not interested.....

Then it gets to the booklet and they start quoting passages etc....

I say ''sorry I'm not interested''

Then they say Could we possibly come in and sit and talk I'm like ''NOOOOOOOO WAAYYYYYYY''  Then I'll say listen I respect you beliefs but I sorry I do not share them..I don't actually think I can believe in God it's just the way I am...

Then they say if it was'nt for God we would'nt have all the things that we have etc I say actually I'm pagan and not at all reileous :incazzato:and just tell I'm busy and have to go..But it's hard work to get your point across when you are thinking WHY should I have to try to explain myself to someone who as just unexpectedly and uninvited just popped up at my doorstep...My point is we Don't ask or invite them to come t us..And them it's so difficult to make them GO :rolleyes5:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> I did have a friend growing up who was a JW and you wouldnt have known what religon she was from looking at her.


Yes ... not all of them have two heads and JW tattoed on their foreheads


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> TBH Janice No! I don't know where you are coming from with the one rule for one and one for another, The are many many many subgests that go like this on the forum! It is called difference of opinion - just some relay their feelings in a different way to others,Some are more serious, some are not!
> I see no difference with this being any different to many other past threads!


*Why is it always you that comes up with the old line,"all threads go off topic"?
There is NOTHING more to it than ME not agreeing with people taking the pee out of others beliefs.Dont read more into it than there is.*


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## RockRomantic (Apr 29, 2009)

i've haven't read all this yet cause im lazy and tired but...

since when has it been ok to swear? lol i was thinking this the other day, but lately seems a fair few people just come out and say sh!t and p!ss...i'm sure we never used to be aloud. But meh. 

anyway on topic...

no one should ridicule anyone for there religion what they believe in and how they life their life is there business, i'd be mortified if someone took the p*ss for what i believe in...which frankly is nothing...but its not the point! 

My friend used to invite JW's inside her home and would sit and have a 3 hour conversation with them, only 10 minutes of that was about religion. 

I must admit i don't like the whole knocking on peoples doors but then maybe i can't really comment on this cause i never answer the door anyway unless im expecting someone. cause im a bit of a moo like that


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Why is it always you that comes up with the old line,"all threads go off topic"?
> There is NOTHING more to it than ME not agreeing with people taking the pee out of others beliefs.Dont read more into it than there is.*


Oh keeping scores now are we?
you have serious issues if you think I am the one who brings that one up!
About time you built a bridge!


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Ive actually only had people try to seriously convert me to christianity before!  They got very frustrated with me coz I said I thought churches were lovely, it must be wonderful to believe in something and people with strong faith tend to live longer so good for them! (also pointed out that I have absolutley no faith in imaginary people/deities and you really cant fake belief. You either have it or you dont.)
I still think its nice for them......just not my cup of tea!!


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Do you talk to them though and engage in conversation? Or can you not bring yourself to just politely cut them off and close door?
> 
> Seriously do not mention Tarot cards to anyone who you think's religion is going to be mortified about them ... and guess that's most ... thier shout.
> 
> ...


Sorry this post was supposed to be a reply to this one DOH 

No I don't mention any of the above But it makes me want to..

I start by saying ''Sorry I'm not interested'' They start on about Can you read our booklet I say ''Sorry I'm not interested'' Once they saw a Rose Bush in my Garden and told me my Garden was Beautiful and Did I Thank God for it.

No I thanked my local Garden centre for the sale they had at the weekend

I said no But I do Thank mother Nature Daily...They told me it was God. erm ok then whatever.

So I say Sorry I'm not interested.....

Then it gets to the booklet and they start quoting passages etc....

I say ''sorry I'm not interested''

Then they say Could we possibly come in and sit and talk I'm like ''NOOOOOOOO WAAYYYYYYY'' Then I'll say listen I respect you beliefs but I sorry I do not share them..I don't actually think I can believe in God it's just the way I am...

Then they say if it was'nt for God we would'nt have all the things that we have etc I say actually I'm pagan and not at all reileous and just tell I'm busy and have to go..But it's hard work to get your point across when you are thinking WHY should I have to try to explain myself to someone who as just unexpectedly and uninvited just popped up at my doorstep...My point is we Don't ask or invite them to come t us..And them it's so difficult to make them GO

IN Response to the person who was offended at work WHY was she Were you offended becouse she was a Christian? This is what I can't understand we should all be allowed to have our own personnal belief's of our own choice without anyone being offended or upset.....I Don't knock Anyones faith / Belief I'm not offended by other choices ...

My point is having others knocking on my Door telling me something is Right/True when I don't agree. They can surely enjoy their faith between themselve's rather than trying to preach to people who may not be at all interested.


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## iheartsonic (Jan 17, 2011)

snoopydo said:


> My point is we Don't ask or invite them to come t us..And them it's so difficult to make them GO :rolleyes5:


YES IT IS! I AGREE!!

This is the only kind of experience I have had with them and this is why I find it difficult to hold my tongue with them. Like I've said before, I'd probably be far more tolerant if they didn't persist after being told no thank you. So if you're lucky enough to be left in peace after telling your religious callers you are not interested then that's brilliant. Can I have them, please? :lol:

And why would I invite perfect strangers in to my house "for a chat" when I have 2 young children around, I don't care who they say they are, that is just not on!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

snoopydo said:


> Sorry this post was supposed to be a reply to this one DOH
> 
> No I don't mention any of the above But it makes me want to..
> 
> ...


Oh dear, you do seem to have a tough time, maybe an assertiveness course would help!

Or maybe have an excuse ready if you feel you need one ... but probably not one that includes the use of hemlock, your casting the Runes or smudging the house 

Salt sprinkled around the boundary of your home can protect and deflect unwanted energies and visitors ... simply do with focussed intention :thumbup1: Sure you know that already!

Worth a try?


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Oh dear, you do seem to have a tough time, maybe an assertiveness course would help!
> 
> Or maybe have an excuse ready if you feel you need one ... but probably not one that includes the use of hemlock, your casting the Runes or smudging the house
> 
> ...


What a cleaver idea........what a waste of salt:001_huh:


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Oh dear, you do seem to have a tough time, maybe an assertiveness course would help!
> 
> Or maybe have an excuse ready if you feel you need one ... but probably not one that includes the use of hemlock, your casting the Runes or smudging the house
> 
> ...


i've heard lambs blood on the lintel works well for some unwanted visitors.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> What a cleaver idea........what a waste of salt:001_huh:


Cleavers, now they have quite a differrent purpose :biggrin:


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Cleavers, now they have quite a differrent purpose :biggrin:


Please excuse my shite spelling lol im doped up on flu tablets.

Cleavers would work a treat im sure


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> Please excuse my shite spelling lol im doped up on flu tablets.
> 
> Cleavers would work a treat im sure


And here's me thinking you were knowleable about plants :laugh:

Should have known better.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> And here's me thinking you were knowleable about plants :laugh:
> 
> Should have known better.


Nope i have better, more important things to do with my time thanks... you dont obviously :frown2:


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Maybe next time you should say, "oh, you got me!!I see the light!! Im now a believer so you can cross me off your list.Well done!"


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> Maybe next time you should say, "oh, you got me!!I see the light!! Im now a believer so you can cross me off your list.Well done!"


And they will invite you to go door knocking! :mad2:


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

I am still reeling from the revelation that apparently i haven't lived  

OMFG if i had lived any more i would be dead


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

catz4m8z said:


> Should we be mollycoddling religons??Shouldnt they be able to take some insults and differences of opinion? I thought that was the whole point of faith!!
> If you believe in something then people having a b***h about it wont bother you coz you'll know you are right!!
> I dont mind doorstep callers, Im always polite and they leave pretty sharpish. (I think I must look quite forbidding or something!!LOL)
> Only thing that bugs me about JWs is if you have one as a patient who really needs a blood transfusion. Bit frustrating that you cant do anything much for them.. I did have a friend growing up who was a JW and you wouldnt have known what religon she was from looking at her.


*There are ways around that. But i don't know all the in's and out's.*


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> I am still reeling from the revelation that apparently i haven't lived
> 
> OMFG if i had lived any more i would be dead


LOL join the club


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Oh keeping scores now are we?
> you have serious issues if you think I am the one who brings that one up!
> About time you built a bridge!


*Bridges have a purpose and i don't see one.*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> LOL join the club


What's that?

The "faint with fright club" when someone knocks on your door that you don't know and gets into your personal space and face, while they make polite conversation with you for two minutes ... if that :biggrin:

Sorry, this is hilarious :lol:


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Havent read all of this thread but can I please remind members of one of the forum rules which reads 

Respect 
This is a site which enjoys the company of members from all over the world. While healthy debate is encouraged, please have the courtesy to respect the views of others. Please do not use obscene or offensive language, or engage in personal attacks or "flaming" of other members. This will not be tolerated and Pet Forums staff will be entitled to suspend users accounts. 


I would read this to include religions as well in the 'courtesy to respect the views of others'


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *There are ways around that. But i don't know all the in's and out's.*


my sister in laws little girl died age 3 from luekemia, they wouldnt let her have the blood transfusion but mil took them to court and it was ordered the little one have the blood as she was too young to choose if she wanted to be a jw, but sadly it made no difference


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

archiebaby said:


> my sister in laws little girl died age 3 from luekemia, they wouldnt let her have the blood transfusion but mil took them to court and it was ordered the little one have the blood as she was too young to choose if she wanted to be a jw, but sadly it made no difference


How very sad. I remember there being a case of that description in the media a few years back, it were a good few years as well, but I do not recall the outcome.

Also there have be a few mother I believe who have died follwoing a complicated labour. Now imv there is no God that would want such to happen.


----------



## niccipink (Nov 16, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> my sister in laws little girl died age 3 from luekemia, they wouldnt let her have the blood transfusion but mil took them to court and it was ordered the little one have the blood as she was too young to choose if she wanted to be a jw, but sadly it made no difference


thats awful hun, sorry to hear that


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Just a point on the whole "right to door knock" issue. yes i do take issue with random door knocking and it's not so much for me but the poor buggers who are elderly, sick, have been up all night with their kids, the poor new Mum who has "just" got the baby off to sleep and sat down with a cuppa for the first time that day etc etc. 

Noone has the "right" to disturb that IMO no matter what their calling is. Like i said before it may be their religion but in my world it's just bad manners. That doesn't mean i haven't lived (still chuckling at that, funniest thing on the thread IMO) that just means i see things differently, i work by my own rules, ethics, morals etc and in my world it's wrong to disturb someone in their own home like that .


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> How very sad. I remember there being a case of that description in the media a few years back, it were a good few years as well, but I do not recall the outcome.
> 
> Also there have be a few mother I believe who have died follwoing a complicated labour. Now imv there is no God that would want such to happen.


If it's a child .... decisions can quickly be made to safeguard childs health and welfare.

In adults, we HAVE to accept and respect their wishes, it's hard though and I understand your point of view ... but it is their shout.


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## niccipink (Nov 16, 2009)

my friend who is 21 now her mam and dad are jw and tried to bring the girls up that way, they have disowned my friends older sister as she is a lesbien and isnt a believer, now to me your kids should come before any religion- surely she is still their daughter and they love her and she has a right to have their own beliefs as does she- i think thats just awful. i cant speak for jws in general that is just the experience i have had.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

tashi said:


> Havent read all of this thread but can I please remind members of one of the forum rules which reads
> 
> Respect
> This is a site which enjoys the company of members from all over the world. While healthy debate is encouraged, please have the courtesy to respect the views of others. Please do not use obscene or offensive language, or engage in personal attacks or "flaming" of other members. This will not be tolerated and Pet Forums staff will be entitled to suspend users accounts.
> ...


*Thankyou for that Tashi,much appreciated.*


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> How very sad. I remember there being a case of that description in the media a few years back, it were a good few years as well, but I do not recall the outcome.
> 
> Also there have be a few mother I believe who have died follwoing a complicated labour. Now imv there is no God that would want such to happen.


it was in all the national papers yes
but what you have to realise dt is that in their religion, it is not god who is running this system its the devil and he has been given a certain amount of time to turn everyone against god, thus people turning round and saying if there was a god he wouldnt let this happen to little babies etc he is turning people against god by doing these terrible things ( please remember this is their view,not mine personally) although saying that, at this moment i am hoping there is a god as my little grandaughter is back in intensive care


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> Just a point on the whole "right to door knock" issue. yes i do take issue with random door knocking and it's not so much for me but the poor buggers who are elderly, sick, have been up all night with their kids, the poor new Mum who has "just" got the baby off to sleep and sat down with a cuppa for the first time that day etc etc.
> 
> Noone has the "right" to disturb that IMO no matter what their calling is. Like i said before it may be their religion but in my world it's just bad manners. That doesn't mean i haven't lived (still chuckling at that, funniest thing on the thread IMO) that just means i see things differently, i work by my own rules, ethics, morals etc and in my world it's wrong to disturb someone in their own home like that .


I agree, up to a point.

I have been knocked up (used to unplug bell) out of bed after night duty numerous times and sworn and cursed my bleary eyed way downstairs. Invariably it was the postman, delivery guy, Avon Rep, Window Cleaner, loft insulation, Sky rep, friend/family who forgot I was on nights ... VERY rarely a Jehovahs Witness 

People are disturbed in their own homes EVERY day or so it seems and don't stress out about it and talk about people being in their faces etc ...

It's called LIFE.


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## smudgiesmummy (Nov 21, 2009)

i have nothing against any religion , cant say ive ever had a real problem with people ... the only time i dont like it is if they constantly go on about it down your throat, which i have had a few time one was by one of my exe's 

i do have to say though that just like the ones like me who dont believe in religion should respect what others believe in and vice versa

i know it doesnt always happen but religion courses a hell of a lot of hate around the world


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


archiebaby said:



my sister in laws little girl died age 3 from luekemia, they wouldnt let her have the blood transfusion but mil took them to court and it was ordered the little one have the blood as she was too young to choose if she wanted to be a jw, but sadly it made no difference

Click to expand...

I am so sorry to hear about your sister in laws little one.


archiebaby said:



it was in all the national papers yes
but what you have to realise dt is that in their religion, it is not god who is running this system its the devil and he has been given a certain amount of time to turn everyone against god, thus people turning round and saying if there was a god he wouldnt let this happen to little babies etc he is turning people against god by doing these terrible things ( please remember this is their view,not mine personally) although saying that, at this moment i am hoping there is a god as my little grandaughter is back in intensive care

Click to expand...

Your post has got me stumped for words.Apart from, i hope your little grandaughter will be ok very soon.xxx
*


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Anybody wakes me or OH up at some stupid hour or disturbs me when I'm a kip will get both barrels full, regardless of race, religion or creed.

:mad5:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Just a point on the whole "right to door knock" issue. yes i do take issue with random door knocking and it's not so much for me but the poor buggers who are elderly, sick, have been up all night with their kids, the poor new Mum who has "just" got the baby off to sleep and sat down with a cuppa for the first time that day etc etc.
> 
> Noone has the "right" to disturb that IMO no matter what their calling is. Like i said before it may be their religion but in my world it's just bad manners. That doesn't mean i haven't lived (still chuckling at that, funniest thing on the thread IMO) that just means i see things differently, i work by my own rules, ethics, morals etc and in my world it's wrong to disturb someone in their own home like that .


*This isn't about people knocking doors its about people showing respect for others beliefs.*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> Anybody wakes me or OH up at some stupid hour or disturbs me when I'm a kip will get both barrels full, regardless of race, religion or creed.
> 
> :mad5:


No point thinking like that if you work night shifts, you'd be ranting and raving most days 

It's not anyones fault they knock, they are just getting on with their daily lives ... while night shift workers sleep. Or try to 

Wow, how I miss working nights .... NOT :biggrin:


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

We have JW round knocking every Sunday cant say it really bothers me they are very pleasant and as soon as I say Sorry I am not really interested off they go,a lot worse going on in the world than them knocking on my door


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> I agree, up to a point.
> 
> I have been knocked up (used to unplug bell) out of bed after night duty numerous times and sworn and cursed my bleary eyed way downstairs. Invariably it was the postman, delivery guy, Avon Rep, Window Cleaner, loft insulation, Sky rep, friend/family who forgot I was on nights ... VERY rarely a Jehovahs Witness
> 
> ...


If someone knocks on my door they are on my property. They have absolutely no "right" to be there. If they've made pests of themselves by knocking on my door every week after I've told the same two people not to bother me repeatedly, I might get a bit shirty with them. That is also called life. I respect anyone's right to their beliefs. They don't have a right to discuss them with me.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *This isn't about people knocking doors its about people showing respect for others beliefs.*


I was just trying to differentiate between people having a problem with "door knocking" (which IMO is the same for charity workers, salesmen and JWs) and people disrespecting someones belief. They are not the same thing.

Obviously JWs are not "bad people" because they door knock 

To be fair though Janice most people on this thread are now discussing the issue of "door knocking" which seems to be the crux of it. Maybe you should request everyone gets back "on topic"


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

They really do annoy me, they are the only religion that go knocking on doors trying to convert people, if people were so easily converted why would they want them to join them, religion i thought should go much deeper than a quick 5 minutes chat on the doorstep and hey ho ime converted very fickle i would say.

I dont understand either how someone could think more of a god someone that we honestly dont know exists, will never see or know a yet put him before our own loved ones, it really doesnt make any sense to me, ime not rude to them but turn them away.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> No point thinking like that if you work night shifts, you'd be ranting and raving most days


I don't but I've still had JW's bang on my door at half past 9 at night, which to me isn't a sociable time as I'm usually in my PJs in front of the tv.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> I don't but I've still had JW's bang on my door at half past 9 at night, which to me isn't a sociable time as I'm usually in my PJs in front of the tv.


You know I find that hard to beleive ... Sorry


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> They really do annoy me, they are the only religion that go knocking on doors trying to convert people, if people were so easily converted why would they want them to join them, religion i thought should go much deeper than a quick 5 minutes chat on the doorstep and hey ho ime converted very fickle i would say.
> 
> I dont understand either how someone could think more of a god someone that we honestly dont know exists, will never see or know a yet put him before our own loved ones, it really doesnt make any sense to me, ime not rude to them but turn them away.


*Years ago i went from door to door with JW's,and studied with them on and off for years.Not once did i ever come across a JW that was pushy,rude,or put a foot in the door.
People are'nt easily converted it takes time and lots of bible study to understand the belief.
People find it hard to understand about the blood transfusion thing,but the fact is, JW's believe there is an everlasting life ahead and if they lost their life or a life of a family member it want be forever.
Not everyones cup of tea i agree,but i still respect their views.
And just for the record,no i haven't been associated with JW's for a long time now but still respect them.*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> To be fair though Janice most people on this thread are now discussing the issue of "door knocking" which seems to be the crux of it. Maybe you should request everyone gets back "on topic"


Yes, then we could badmouth the real "offenders" door to door salesmen


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *I know some people might get fed up with them knocking on doors but they are only doing what they believe is right. *


Yes but if we had people from Christian, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, ect. and there is a lot more, as well as the JWs knocking at our door, we would be living at our front door.:mad5: If I wanted to know about a faith, I would look into it myself.


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> Yes, then we could badmouth the real "offenders" door to door salesmen


Or the blinking betterware catalogue man now him I could've swung for :skep:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

GreyHare said:


> Or the blinking betterware catalogue man now him I could've swung for :skep:


Don't go there :biggrin:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*:mad2::mad2: Can we just get OFF the subject of doors?*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Yes, then we could badmouth the real "offenders" door to door salesmen


Think i answered the original post early on, i don't believe there is any "favouritism" on here, i think ALL religions get treated with equal disrespect 

I can honestly say i have seen comments/threads on here that have contained offensive statements on just about every religion at some point or other, i have challenged a fair few of them.

Should we post more sensitively - Yes, Is there a Freedom of Speech issue - maybe but i would rather avoid offence where i can when it comes to this sort of thing, Is there "one rule for one" on this subject - No


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

I get them coming to my door and they always give me a catalogue or leaflet and i am very nice and cheery to them, and i will tell them that i will read it, i do have a little read but do not usually read the whole of the catalogue as it is a lot to take in, but i am NEVER rude to them.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> You know I find that hard to beleive ... Sorry


You know I don't care...Sorry.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

GreyHare said:


> Or the blinking betterware catalogue man now him I could've swung for :skep:


Don't get me started on the bloomin Avon woman !!!! She is absolutely lovely but how many times do i return a catalogue without ordering before she gives up leaving one !!!!!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *:mad2::mad2: Can we just get OFF the subject of doors?*


Of course, I'm off out tonight so I shall go and get ready now ... Good thread and it's brought back some happy memories of our old neighbours 

Ultimately our families were such good friends because we ALL respected each others beliefs and realised it was possible to get along that way :biggrin:

Oh, and I'll remember to tell hubby not to answer door tonight if anyone knocks ... especially if it is dark


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

I made a thread some weeks ago regarding door knocking, but i was quite clear that the whole point of the post was regarding my inability to say no in situations where im not interested but stand their out of politeness.

I have a few JW mates, i respect their faith as i do with any faith, I was merely commenting that i wish i could have the balls to be a bit more blunt with the sunday morning preachers - as i feel im wasting their time and mine. I have had in depth chats with my religious friends of all types, and do my best to understand their beliefs and where these come from - as i believe that important when looking at any faith. 

Thats not taking the p*ss out of the faith, its taking the p*ss out of my inability to say no.

I have the same issue with charity collectors.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Savahl said:


> I made a thread some weeks ago regarding door knocking, but i was quite clear that the whole point of the post was regarding my inability to say no in situations where im not interested but stand their out of politeness.
> 
> I have a few JW mates, i respect their faith as i do with any faith, I was merely commenting that i wish i could have the balls to be a bit more blunt with the sunday morning preachers - as i feel im wasting their time and mine. I have had in depth chats with my religious friends of all types, and do my best to understand their beliefs and where these come from - as i believe that important when looking at any faith.
> 
> ...


I think that sums it up.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I live with god all day every day, he is with me nearly every step I take, watches out for me when I go out, sits by my side when I'm watching the TV, looking at me waiting for me to make a fuss of him or give him a treat, my every own "Grecian God" Dillons Pedigree name. :biggrin: :biggrin:


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

I dont think it acceptable to judge anyone's faith, on the same note. I am agnostic, and am generally irritated by attitudes to faith by atheists, and often by people of OTHER faiths.

Even science relies on a certain level of "faith", because we know that as science continues new things are discovered and popular theories change to support this; so we can only believe theories based on evidence provided, which may seem conclusive, but there is also chance that more evidence will emerge in the future to change things.

In this world where we do not know everything, and cannot know everything, everyone puts their faith in something - and it is normally an individual experiance to that person - certain religious teachings may answer questions that a person has due to their personal experiance and they feel the "faith" they feel in those teachings, whereas another religion may answer those questions for someone else, and science for another. Even if those doubts and questions are regarding a sense of belonging, community and some security for the unknown.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Savahl said:


> I made a thread some weeks ago regarding door knocking, but i was quite clear that the whole point of the post was regarding my inability to say no in situations where im not interested but stand their out of politeness.
> 
> I have a few JW mates, i respect their faith as i do with any faith, I was merely commenting that i wish i could have the balls to be a bit more blunt with the sunday morning preachers - as i feel im wasting their time and mine. I have had in depth chats with my religious friends of all types, and do my best to understand their beliefs and where these come from - as i believe that important when looking at any faith.
> 
> ...


*I am not saying you were taking the pee when you started your thread.But like this one some people turn a thread into something it wasn't ment to be.
Now if someone starts a thread saying they don't like JW's thats fine by me as long as it stays respectful.*


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Contact the local Kingdom Hall tell them to not call at your address and they wont. SIMPLE


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Don't get me started on the bloomin Avon woman !!!! She is absolutely lovely but how many times do i return a catalogue without ordering before she gives up leaving one !!!!!


lol everytime i get a new Avon lady i just go over my views on animal testing and the fact that only Avons end products are cruelty free and the ingredients are still tested on animals .....job done! i get no more catalogues through the post:cornut:


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## niccipink (Nov 16, 2009)

northnsouth said:


> Contact the local Kingdom Hall tell them to not call at your address and they wont. SIMPLE


why should we have to


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

northnsouth said:


> Contact the local Kingdom Hall tell them to not call at your address and they wont. SIMPLE


OR we could give them the addresses of the people who dont mind being preached to :thumbup1:


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I am not saying you were taking the pee when you started your thread.But like this one some people turn a thread into something it wasn't ment to be.
> Now if someone starts a thread saying they don't like JW's thats fine by me as long as it stays respectful.*


AAaahhh now that is where we see things differently then maybe because if someone started a thread saying they didn't like JWs i would definately object.

That is exactly the same as starting a thread saying "i dont like

Blacks
Gays
Muslims etc 
and IMO that is a thread that should never exist on a public board and that has nothing to do with Freedom of speech, its about common decency.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> AAaahhh now that is where we see things differently then maybe because if someone started a thread saying they didn't like JWs i would definately object.
> 
> That is exactly the same as starting a thread saying "i dont like
> 
> ...


I havent seen anyone say they dont like JW'S personally, just that they dont like having doors knocked and being preached to.

100% agree this thread should not have been started.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> AAaahhh now that is where we see things differently then maybe because if someone started a thread saying they didn't like JWs i would definately object.
> 
> That is exactly the same as starting a thread saying "i dont like
> 
> ...


*Thats your oppinion.All subjects are open for discussion for me.But thats another thread.*


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Thats your oppinion.All subjects are open for discussion for me.But thats another thread.*


Please god not another one :frown2:

:biggrin:


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Happy Paws said:


> I live with god all day every day, he is with me nearly every step I take, watches out for me when I go out, sits by my side when I'm watching the TV, looking at me waiting for me to make a fuss of him or give him a treat, my every own "Grecian God" Dillons Pedigree name. :biggrin: :biggrin:


we have something similar... except he's an emerald crab and is called God2 (god(1) was shortened from Godzilla but god2 is god2. lol).

we rarely see him and aren't sure he still exists but every so often he shows us a sign and we are believers once more


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Thats your oppinion.All subjects are open for discussion for me.But thats another thread.*


Providing they stay within you strict guidelines of course!
A whoa betide ANYONE who goes off topic!
Which is nigh on impossible when we get to 22 pages and beyond!


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Providing they stay within you strict guidelines of course!
> A whoa betide ANYONE who goes off topic!
> Which is nigh on impossible when we get to 22 pages and beyond!


 22 pages that's a lot of door knocking :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> 22 pages that's a lot of door knocking :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


Can you imagine talking about door knockers for 22 pages? We would all be knock,knock, knocking on heavens door through boredom


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> it was in all the national papers yes
> but what you have to realise dt is that in their religion, it is not god who is running this system its the devil and he has been given a certain amount of time to turn everyone against god, thus people turning round and saying if there was a god he wouldnt let this happen to little babies etc he is turning people against god by doing these terrible things ( please remember this is their view,not mine personally) although saying that, at this moment i am hoping there is a god as my little grandaughter is back in intensive care


That is at the crux of the majority of religions based loosely around God, it's not exclusive to JW's, what is exclusive is the way some religions view the way that non-believers should/need to be converted.

Back to the thread, and my short answers are....

1) haven't seen anyone take the p*ss out of a religion, just a few jokey comments about getting rid of people trying to sell you their religion on your doorstep, I agree with some of the other posters, freedom of speech is healthy, as long as you don't get personal, which doesn't seem to have happened on this or any other thread I've read relating to religion
2) only the postman has the right of access to come to your door, other uninvited people do not have that right and are tresspassing. I can assure anyone who may try to insinuate otherwise, I certainly have lived and seen a lot in life and am not naive, and I do not want anyone knocking on my door uninvited unless they tell me the roof is on fire.
3) JW's are pushy, ok, not all of them, but certainly the ones I've met don't take a polite 'no', more like a firm 'NO' for an answer, and they can and do prey on the vulnerable, my ex MIL used to spend her valued pension money on The Watchtower because it was foisted on to her and she couldn't say no. They are certainly not in an exclusive club of pushy people, and by no means will all of their members be pushy or behave as described with my ex MIL, however, the experiences of many on this and other threads proves that a good proportion seem to be. 
4) I'm disappointed by the sarcastic tone and insinuations that some members are lying, I expect I will be too since I've had negative experiences with JW's
5) a church is not only descriptive of a building, but is a gathering of people to worship God


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

That was freaky must be the hand of god because as I "liked" SL post all the other people who " liked" came up at the same time!!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> That was freaky must be the hand of god because as I "liked" SL post all the other people who " liked" came up at the same time!!


I think we can safely say it must have been divine intervention


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

harley bear said:


> Can you imagine talking about door knockers for 22 pages? We would all be knock,knock, knocking on heavens door through boredom


I'm sitting on my hands because for those that know me well and my humour I was tempted to put up a knock knock joke :devil:

But don't want to cause more upset


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I'm sitting on my hands because for those that know me well and my humour I was tempted to put up a knock knock joke :devil:
> 
> But don't want to cause more upset


LMFAO So was i!  :cornut:


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I'm sitting on my hands because for those that know me well and my humour I was tempted to put up a knock knock joke :devil:
> 
> But don't want to cause more upset


Dare ya


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Thats your oppinion.All subjects are open for discussion for me.But thats another thread.*


So lets be straight, all subjects are up for discussion .... oh except apparently the subject of JWs because thats taking the P


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Can you imagine talking about knockers for 22 pages? :


yep! I could if Hawk sport had his way!


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## Guest (May 24, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> So lets be straight, all subjects are up for discussion .... oh except apparently the subject of JWs because thats taking the P


Reckon you could have summed it up Rainybows! Hallabl**dyluyah


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Stopping the merry go round now


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> So lets be straight, all subjects are up for discussion .... oh except apparently the subject of JWs because thats taking the P


*As i've said i don't have a problem with discussing the JW's or any other religion for that matter,as long as people don't take the pee.*


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Can this one now be kept on topic, with a good healthy debate that we know is possible amongst you - a close eye will be kept on it BUT debate away but BE NICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Guest (May 25, 2011)

tashi said:


> Can this one now be kept on topic, with a good healthy debate that we know is possible amongst you - a close eye will be kept on it BUT debate away but BE NICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


TBH failing to see who exactly is taking the p*ss here Tashi! yet it keeps getting dragged up! Bit like an old record! I'm off it anyway -going to the vets now!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

DoubleTrouble said:


> TBH failing to see who exactly is taking the p*ss here Tashi! yet it keeps getting dragged up! Bit like an old record! I'm off it anyway -going to the vets now!


Cant answer that one , havent had time to read all the thread, too much going on here with attempted child abductions - all I will say is that if people dont like what they read then skip over the thread :thumbup1:

btw good luck at the vets


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## Guest (May 25, 2011)

tashi said:


> Cant answer that one , havent had time to read all the thread, too much going on here with attempted child abductions - all I will say is that if people dont like what they read then skip over the thread :thumbup1:
> 
> btw good luck at the vets


You can't do that if you find something that you think is offensive, it should be reported.
Something has obviously upset Jan, I don't know what, and it may have been Jan taking something in print the wrong way (how many times has that happened with us all ), but she obviously feels it needs airing and highlighting. 
I would and have done the same when I've felt something/someone to be insulting or unfair


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

rona said:


> You can't do that if you find something that you think is offensive, it should be reported.
> Something has obviously upset Jan, I don't know what, and it may have been Jan taking something in print the wrong way (how many times has that happened with us all ), but she obviously feels it needs airing and highlighting.
> I would and have done the same when I've felt something/someone to be insulting or unfair


I totally agree Rona.

If a mod can say this about this one particular thread, then it must apply to all threads ...

I'm not sure where the issue lies in seeing what has upset Janice ... It's prettty obvious to me! She does not like to see people making fun of other's religious and I would hope ... and am sure it does includes spiritual beliefs!

I and I see several others, agree with her 100%

To be honest, in my thoughts, only the uneducated and ignorant take pleasure in making fun or cheap jokes about another persons religous stance. I appreciate people may not understand or appreciate someones beliefs, but that does not mean they should insult or make fun of them.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

rona said:


> You can't do that if you find something that you think is offensive, it should be reported.
> Something has obviously upset Jan, I don't know what, and it may have been Jan taking something in print the wrong way (how many times has that happened with us all ), but she obviously feels it needs airing and highlighting.
> I would and have done the same when I've felt something/someone to be insulting or unfair


There are so many threads I don't agree with on here, ones that just make me shake my head in disbelief, and I certainly don't agree with everyone on a number of subjects. But if you can't debate both sides of a subject is there any point in starting a thread about it? And, I still fail to see where anyone has posted anything directly against a religion, as I said in an earlier post, there were a few jokey comments, perhaps not in the best taste, about getting rid of JW's from your doorstep, although some could equally apply to any doorstep 'salesmen'.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

rona said:


> You can't do that if you find something that you think is offensive, it should be reported.
> Something has obviously upset Jan, I don't know what, and it may have been Jan taking something in print the wrong way (how many times has that happened with us all ), but she obviously feels it needs airing and highlighting.
> I would and have done the same when I've felt something/someone to be insulting or unfair


*Rona most people on here know i'm pretty thick skinned and can take most things as they come.What got to me was not for my own feelings but those of the JW faith.Now if i thought some posts were taking the pee how would any JW's have felt?
As for taking somethings that are in print the wrong way,i think sometimes i'm not the best at saying what i want in writing.*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> there were a few jokey comments, perhaps not in the best taste, about getting rid of JW's from your doorstep, although some could equally apply to any doorstep 'salesmen'.


But they weren't about salesmen where they? They were joking about Jehovah's Witnessses.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> But they weren't about salesmen where they? They were joking about Jehovah's Witnessses.


But where did anyone belittle their faith? Many of the comments were along the lines of it's fine for them to have their faith but a lot of posters just don't want to share it and felt that actively knocking (sorry Janice) on doors was too pushy. Added to that, some had experienced negative comments from JW's, and yet they were insinuated to be untrue.

Edited to add, the salesmen bit was clarified earlier in the post, you're not parting with money, but they are trying to get you to convert which to me, is a sales 'technique'.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> But where did anyone belittle their faith? Many of the comments were along the lines of it's fine for them to have their faith but a lot of posters just don't want to share it and felt that actively knocking (sorry Janice) on doors was too pushy. Added to that, some had experienced negative comments from JW's, and yet they were insinuated to be untrue.
> 
> Edited to add, the salesmen bit was clarified earlier in the post, you're not parting with money, but they are trying to get you to convert which to me, is a sales 'technique'.


*Don't be sorry,let me try and explain.If i started a thread about how i hate having to see a certain breed of dog,(i'll pick poodles) and then people started taking the mick about how they are yappy little rats ect ect.Do you not think that poodle owners would be offended?
I'd better add i do own poodles as most people know.*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> But where did anyone belittle their faith? Many of the comments were along the lines of it's fine for them to have their faith but a lot of posters just don't want to share it and felt that actively knocking (sorry Janice) on doors was too pushy.


That is "part" of their faith.

Part of the reason Janice probably posted was because of previous thread too, which was pretty bad.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Amethyst said:


> That is "part" of their faith.
> 
> Part of the reason Janice probably posted was because of previous thread too, which was pretty bad.


and the reason it was closed


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Don't be sorry,let me try and explain.If i started a thread about how i hate having to see a certain breed of dog,(i'll pick poodles) and then people started taking the mick about how they are yappy little rats ect ect.Do you not think that poodle owners would be offended?
> I'd better add i do own poodles as most people know.*


I'd expect they'd heard it all before to be honest. As the owner of chocolate Labs, I've come across plenty of prejudice and downright rudeness about them, but I just don't let it get to me.



Amethyst said:


> That is "part" of their faith.
> 
> Part of the reason Janice probably posted was because of previous thread too, which was pretty bad.


Converting people to your religion is a part of any faith, it's the manner in which it can be done which some find offensive/a nuisance. And they, imo, have every right to express this.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Don't be sorry,let me try and explain.If i started a thread about how i hate having to see a certain breed of dog,(i'll pick poodles) and then people started taking the mick about how they are yappy little rats ect ect.Do you not think that poodle owners would be offended?
> I'd better add i do own poodles as most people know.*


What the hell does a poodle have to do with a JW? 
NO ONE has anything against JW's as people, They have no right to preach their beliefs on peoples doorsteps! Like i said earlier if they want to preach they should get a stall with their little leaflets.

How many times has this thread gone round in circles? People are playing the religious prejudice card are there is no prejudice there because people have nothing against their religion!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

The topic of this thread is "since when has it been ok" and the answer is It never has been but it happens fairly regularly.

Some religions have recieved page after page of insulting remarks, which i have highlighted and debated before many times so i certainly don't see any "one rule" system.

IMO if you think a post is truly offensive to a particular race or religion then report it to the MODS and they will deal with it because it is (rightly so) against the rules and by challenging the exact post that is offensive it makes it clear what has bothered you and what has not.

I think it is the only exception i make now regards actually reporting a post because i have come to realise that mostly people don't mean to be offensive and there is little point debating it (done that to death and it generally ends up in a mess with things being taken out of context all over the place).

The "Hoo Ha" just goes round in circles.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


Sleeping_Lion said:



I'd expect they'd heard it all before to be honest. As the owner of chocolate Labs, I've come across plenty of prejudice and downright rudeness about them, but I just don't let it get to me.

Ah but your missing the point,some of us can take it on the chin but many can't.And as forum members we should all show respect for others beliefs,ect.

Converting people to your religion is a part of any faith, it's the manner in which it can be done which some find offensive/a nuisance. And they, imo, have every right to express this.

Click to expand...

I will again say,i AGREE people have the right to say they don't like them knocking their doors.Its how it has been said.
*


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## Guest (May 25, 2011)

harley bear said:


> What the hell does a poodle have to do with a JW?


Re read what Janice said as you have completely missed her point by a mile :frown2:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> there is no prejudice there because people have nothing against their religion!


Is that why you are posting jokes about them on the forum then?


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think what the main bulk of it is Jan was not bothered about people disliking JW's knocking on the door but the fact people were then making derogotory comments about them and what they preach etc - a bit like the muslim thread not long back where people said certain things that could be construed as offensive to a muslim...there is nothing wrong in stating your view and I know Jan accepts everyone has an opinion - its just how it is said - well thats my take anyway lol


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Is that why you are posting jokes about them on the forum then?


LMFAO that wasnt a dig at JW it was a dig at the people who are going round and round and round in circles about JW's knocking doors!


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

I don't like seeing other people's faith come under fire, my own comes under it often enough  . In the case of JW's I was always taught to just tell them no, thank you very much but I'm not interested as my faith is blah blah and I'm quite happy with that. When I was a practicing RC this wasnt so much of a problem, they used to smile, thank me and go. Now they seem to run :lol: but that is due to their prejudices against my faith not vice versa.

Religion can be the best thing in the world, and the worst and it goes both ways for each and every religion there is. JW's probably have the reputation they have because of people's bad experiences with what is probably the rare few. Just as muslims seem to have gotten a bad reputation as being bombers, catholic priests as paedophiles, protestants havent exactly had it easy over the years either, Jewish people (need i say anything!), and my faith get called satanists when that couldnt be further from the truth (we dont believe in a devil), Mormons for having lots of wives and going door to door, and JW's for the latter.

People are funny beings :biggrin:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> The topic of this thread is "since when has it been ok" and the answer is It never has been but it happens fairly regularly.
> 
> Some religions have recieved page after page of insulting remarks, which i have highlighted and debated before many times so i certainly don't see any "one rule" system.
> 
> ...


*I did report it.
Debating religion is a whole different ball game.imo*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> LMFAO that wasnt a dig at JW it was a dig at the people who are going round and round and round in circles about JW's knocking doors!


On another thread.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> I will again say,i AGREE people have the right to say they don't like them knocking their doors.Its how it has been said.
> *


Really? Ok, so a couple of the comments were a bit jokey, and possibly could be taken the wrong way, but if we had to bear in mind sensitive people with every single post on this forum, no-one would post anything. I've heard a lot worse about different activities and breeds of dogs, than anything on this thread or on any others. I've had people make snide remarks about me, or try to, but with such a thick skin I couldn't give two hoots to be quite honest.

As Rainybow said, it's not ok to belittle a religious faith directly, not should anyone be made to feel personally as though their beliefs are wrong, but if you can't comment about your experiences and thoughts that aren't a direct criticism of someone elses relilgious beliefs, but how you personally feel, it would be a poorer forum. As I said in my previous post, I've had negative experiences with JW's knocking on the door, they can be very polite, but they are incredibly persistent, which comes across as pushy and does little to make them popular. I hope if any JW's were to read this thread, it would highlight the damage they do to their own faith with the way they go about door step knocking. They will, no doubt, be mentored on how and what to do when they go out, and some of them obviously aren't acting in a way that makes them good representatives of the JW faith, as is evident from mine, and others' experiences posted on this and other threads.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> On another thread.


Take note of the thread title.

I have nothing else to say to you on the subject as you cant help but getting nasty.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

GreyHare said:


> Re read what Janice said as you have completely missed her point by a mile :frown2:





suzy93074 said:


> I think what the main bulk of it is Jan was not bothered about people disliking JW's knocking on the door but the fact people were then making derogotory comments about them and what they preach etc - a bit like the muslim thread not long back where people said certain things that could be construed as offensive to a muslim...there is nothing wrong in stating your view and I know Jan accepts everyone has an opinion - its just how it is said - well thats my take anyway lol


*Thankyou both..My head is getting a bit sore banging it against this wall.pmsl*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> Take note of the thread title.
> 
> I have nothing else to say to you on the subject as you cant help but getting nasty.


Getting nasty because I am highlighting that you have posted a joke about Jehovah's Witnesses?


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Getting nasty because I am highlighting that you have posted a joke about Jehovah's Witnesses?


No because of your nastiness yesterday! I am not willing to go into it any further and have nothing more to say to you.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Thankyou both..My head is getting a bit sore banging it against this wall.pmsl*


I think some are simply choosing NOT to understand what you mean


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I think what the main bulk of it is Jan was not bothered about people disliking JW's knocking on the door but the fact people were then making derogotory comments about them and what they preach etc - a bit like the muslim thread not long back where people said certain things that could be construed as offensive to a muslim...there is nothing wrong in stating your view and I know Jan accepts everyone has an opinion - its just how it is said - well thats my take anyway lol


But this is what is confusing everyone, and I've read both threads, and still can't find anything really offensive about the JW religion. Yes, people made jokey comments about how to get rid of JW's if/when they come knocking on your door, like hiding, or telling them you worship satan, but nobody rubbished their actual faith. To be perfectly honest, they would get short shrift from me because I just haven't the time or patience to be preached at by anyone, no matter how polite. Some people obviously aren't as forward as me at telling door knockers to b*gga off, no matter what they're selling, and I did smile at a couple of the comments but didn't think any of them were out of order. If they'd related to my own religion or beliefs, I wouldn't have been offended but more likely slightly embaressed I provoked such a response from people in my attempts to convert them.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

One of my closest friend's is a JW and she doesn't take offence at jokes about them going around knocking on doors. However it isn't ok to mock or be rude about someone else's beliefs if they aren't hurting other people same with the majority of Muslims


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I think some are simply choosing NOT to understand what you mean


Well I know I'm NOT, although you can think what you like


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Good thread to start Janice, good for you, for speaking up ... some of the the responses have certainly been enlightening ... :crazy:


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Think this is probably getting a little confusing due to the fact that the original offensive thread was removed before some of you perhaps read it. The forum has a wide range of people of every creed colour and race, some of the way threads are written are not pleasant and can lead to big problems legally with the racism etc policies 

I will not re-instate the thread so that people can read before anyone asks


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> But this is what is confusing everyone, and I've read both threads, and still can't find anything really offensive about the JW religion. Yes, people made jokey comments about how to get rid of JW's if/when they come knocking on your door, like hiding, or telling them you worship satan, but nobody rubbished their actual faith. To be perfectly honest, they would get short shrift from me because I just haven't the time or patience to be preached at by anyone, no matter how polite. Some people obviously aren't as forward as me at telling door knockers to b*gga off, no matter what they're selling, and I did smile at a couple of the comments but didn't think any of them were out of order. If they'd related to my own religion or beliefs, I wouldn't have been offended but more likely slightly embaressed I provoked such a response from people in my attempts to convert them.


*So jokey comments were seen not just by me? Now had a few of us been sitting in a room and had the same discussion i could have joined in having a giggle.But as it has been pointed out its not the same when its the written word.And imo it doesn't look good on a forum.*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *So jokey comments were seen not just by me? Now had a few of us been sitting in a room and had the same discussion i could have joined in having a giggle.But as it has been pointed out its not the same when its the written word.And imo it doesn't look good on a forum.*


If the comments had been posted in a gentle and light hearted way, while perhaps not good on the forum, they would not have perhaps been so offensive.

However I felt the comments about JW's being "in your face" "invading personal space" and someone commenting they called late at night (which I don't believe) to be rediculous. And offensive to people who I have ALWAYS found polite, pleasant and accepting that I do not wish to discuss anything with them.

Anyway, that's me done and off to look for my coffee machine


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *So jokey comments were seen not just by me? Now had a few of us been sitting in a room and had the same discussion i could have joined in having a giggle.But as it has been pointed out its not the same when its the written word.And imo it doesn't look good on a forum.*


Yes they were jokey comments but they were not directed at a religious belief, but at the way in which people attempt to convert others to their beliefs.



Amethyst said:


> If the comments had been posted in a gentle and light hearted way, while perhaps not good on the forum, they would not have perhaps been so offensive.
> 
> However I felt the comments about JW's being "in your face" "invading personal space" and someone commenting they called late at night (which I don't believe) to be rediculous. And offensive to people who I have ALWAYS found polite, pleasant and accepting that I do not wish to discuss anything with them.
> 
> Anyway, that's me done and off to look for my coffee machine


Wow, so if you don't have a polite JW at your door, you can't comment? If you feel that people are being pushy regardless of their religious belief, then you either have to keep it to yourself, or it just can't be true? How about the sensibilities of those at the receiving end of the door knocking, do they not have a say? Or is it only people with a religion that can be offended?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Going to quote this one as sometimes they get lost at the bottom of a page 



tashi said:


> Think this is probably getting a little confusing due to the fact that the original offensive thread was removed before some of you perhaps read it. The forum has a wide range of people of every creed colour and race, some of the way threads are written are not pleasant and can lead to big problems legally with the racism etc policies
> 
> I will not re-instate the thread so that people can read before anyone asks


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

tashi said:


> Going to quote this one as sometimes they get lost at the bottom of a page


Good idea


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Wow, so if you don't have a polite JW at your door, you can't comment? If you feel that people are being pushy regardless of their religious belief, then you either have to keep it to yourself, or it just can't be true? How about the sensibilities of those at the receiving end of the door knocking, do they not have a say? Or is it only people with a religion that can be offended?


I think much of it was far fetched


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I think much of it was far fetched


So are you saying posters made it up? ie were 'fabricating' the truth, or lying?


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> But this is what is confusing everyone, and *I've read both threads, and still can't find anything really offensive about the JW religion.* Yes, people made jokey comments about how to get rid of JW's if/when they come knocking on your door, like hiding, or telling them you worship satan, but nobody rubbished their actual faith. To be perfectly honest, they would get short shrift from me because I just haven't the time or patience to be preached at by anyone, no matter how polite. Some people obviously aren't as forward as me at telling door knockers to b*gga off, no matter what they're selling, and I did smile at a couple of the comments but didn't think any of them were out of order. If they'd related to my own religion or beliefs, I wouldn't have been offended but more likely slightly embaressed I provoked such a response from people in my attempts to convert them.


Me neither. I saw some jokey comments that mostly drew their humour from the social discomfort involved in trying to get rid of someone who thinks they are "saving" you, but that was it. I have seen far worse written about other groups of people on this forum.

Re: personal space, as discussed earlier, a person's property is their personal space. Earlier comments about the naivety of people who object to it being invaded seem to be at odds with the attitude that making light of the discomfort caused by doorstep preachers is deeply offensive.

Some people (not the OP!) seem to have an eye for a situation where they'll get a chance to get snotty with others.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

If this thread has any relative connection with an incident which took place on my driveway yesterday morning and the resulting posting of a light hearted thread entitled 'Have you met God today?' (which as it just so happens, contains an apparent religious fact) then might I just add that the driveway in question lies at the end of a 2 kilometre track. 
This Track goes absolutely nowhere except to our property and is clearly marked;

*PRIVATE PROPERTY. OUR DOGS ARE GUARDIAN DOGS. THEY ARE AT WORK PROTECTING US AND THEIR TERRITORY. YOU RISK HARM TO YOURSELF IF YOU ENTER THESE PREMISES WITHOUT PERMISSION. *

This sign is in both the English and Finnish languages. 
A sign which this particular individual completely disregarded.

Having told the traveller I did not speak his language (* IN HIS NATIVE TONGUE *) he blatantly ignored my words and disrespectfully continued to prattle on about his religion. 
Not wholly satisfied with disrupting the dogs and my day he then absurdly produced the Watch Tower from his Briefcase with the evident intent to show me some obscure text ( *IN HIS LANGUAGE* ).

So, as you can see from the above, this wandering prophet's attempts to force his beliefs upon me were thoroughly futile because we spoke in different tongues yet he blindly refused to see and accept this very simple but obvious fact.

If these people are ever subject to ridicule then, in evidence, it's because they often bring it upon themselves.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

myshkin said:


> Some people (not the OP!) seem to have an eye for a situation where they'll get a chance to get snotty with others.


Now that is certainly true


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Zaros......you suggested that a proselytizing doorstepper was pushy......if you've read this thread you know what that means.............you lie!!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> So are you saying posters made it up? ie were 'fabricating' the truth, or lying?


*Without being rude i personaly wont answer that question on the open forum because it will just cause more problems.*


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

I don't think that the op is saying she believes people with negative experiences are lying, more that feelings run high with these sorts of things and that can lead to slight exaggeration x


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

myshkin said:


> Zaros......you suggested that a proselytizing doorstepper was pushy......if you've read this thread you know what that means.............you lie!!!


Hey! I haven't sacrificed a virgin for quite a while now......so don't push me


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Without being rude i personaly wont answer that question on the open forum because it will just cause more problems.*


Well I can assure you 100% the case with my ex-MIL is not at all fabricated, she resented having to buy The Watchtower, but didn't feel she could be rude. She was brought up in a different generation, and was not outgoing or particularly intelligent, she was a lovely lady who was brought up to be a mother and housewife and had relied on her husband as a provider until his death. So how can it be right for anyone of any religion to be so insistent about their faith that they pretty much force a pensioner to buy their publications? It just isn't, no matter what your beliefs. Nor is it right after telling people a number of times you're not interested in hearing what they have to say about their beliefs because you have their own, for them still to basically pester you and try to make you question your decision. I'd hate to think what happens when someone with learning difficulties, or similar to my ex-MIL opens the door if they say no thank you and don't get the appropriate response, but are pestered into feeling they have to listen to someone, or let them in, whether that's someone selling a religion, or anything else.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Zaros said:


> Hey! I haven't sacrificed a virgin for quite a while now......so don't push me


Well I'm safe then :tongue_smilie:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> So how can it be right for anyone of any religion to be so insistent about their faith that they pretty much force a pensioner to buy their publications? It just isn't, no matter what your beliefs. Nor is it right after telling people a number of times you're not interested in hearing what they have to say about their beliefs because you have their own, for them still to basically pester you and try to make you question your decision. I'd hate to think what happens when someone with learning difficulties, or similar to my ex-MIL opens the door if they say no thank you and don't get the appropriate response, but are pestered into feeling they have to listen to someone, or let them in, whether that's someone selling a religion, or anything else.


I'd worry more about them being called on by salesmen selling paving, roofing services, double glazing myself. Just my opinion 

Sadly I often read of the vulnerable being misled into buying services they don't need and can't afford in the paper (which is terrible) ... never heard anyone mention The Watchtower mind you :001_huh:


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

Religions, like politics are simply man-made ideas and all ideas should be subject to discussion, criticism, mockery and/or praise. This is called freedom of speech.
My personal view is that all religions are childish fairytales designed to comfort the vulnerable and the uncertain.
But that is just my view and should also be open to discussion, criticism, mockery and/or praise. I wouldn't single out a religion for mockery - I mock them all! But, as I said, that is just my view and I am happy to be mocked or praised for it.

Mick


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

raindog said:


> Religions, like politics are simply man-made ideas and all ideas should be subject to discussion, criticism, mockery and/or praise. This is called freedom of speech.
> My personal view is that all religions are childish fairytales designed to comfort the vulnerable and the uncertain.
> But that is just my view and should also be open to discussion, criticism, mockery and/or praise. I wouldn't single out a religion for mockery - I mock them all! But, as I said, that is just my view and I am happy to be mocked or praised for it.
> 
> Mick


*Why mockery? And is an open forum the right place?*


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I'd worry more about them being called on by salesmen selling paving, roofing services, double glazing myself. Just my opinion
> 
> Sadly I often read of the vulnerable being misled into buying services they don't need and can't afford in the paper (which is terrible) ... never heard anyone mention The Watchtower mind you :001_huh:


I don't think there's a way you can prioritise degrees of 'rightness' when it comes to this sort of activity, it's all wrong, it doesn't matter what they are selling, they are taking advantage of a vulnerable person.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I don't think there's a way you can prioritise degrees of 'rightness' when it comes to this sort of activity, it's all wrong, it doesn't matter what they are selling, they are taking advantage of a vulnerable person.


I used to worry about my mum being alone in the house but funnily enough the thought that she might be accosted by JW's or forced to spend a quid on The Watchtower never crossed my mind ...

Now my sister's father in law was almost robbed of thousands by dodgy paving guys ... that IS bad ... in my opinion


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I used to worry about my mum being alone in the house but funnily enough the thought that she might be accosted by JW's or forced to spend a quid on The Watchtower never crossed my mind ...
> 
> Now my sister's father in law was almost robbed of thousands by dodgy paving guys ... that IS bad ... in my opinion


Whether it's £1 or £1000 isn't the point, it is taking advantage of a vulnerable person.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Whether it's £1 or £1000 isn't the point, it is taking advantage of a vulnerable person.


If it happens ...


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

In the case of your ex MIL SL I can understand her being vulnerable.

If a salesperson comes to your door then you are aware that they are out to try and sell you something.

With religion it's not as easy because most people do not want to cause offence and feel obligated and like your ex MIL pressured into it.

It's the same probably with Charity people knocking at our door because some find it difficult to say no because you believe they are doing good.

Would be better if all cold callers stopped coming whether it be selling/religion or charity. If people want their services then they would access them themselves.

In this day and age you do have to be careful and there are people out there who wouldn't hesitate to pretend to be a any of them and gain access into vulnerable peoples homes.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Sleeping Lion, when the response you're getting is that you must be lying it suggests to me that you've probably proved your point. We're all making up stories about pushy doorstep preachers, it's completely in our heads and never happened.
What an immature, unpleasant way to respond to a reasonably argued point.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> If it happens ...


Are you saying I made it up about my ex-MIL?



myshkin said:


> Sleeping Lion, when the response you're getting is that you must be lying it suggests to me that you've probably proved your point. We're all making up stories about pushy doorstep preachers, it's completely in our heads and never happened.
> What an immature, unpleasant way to respond to a reasonably argued point.


It is turning into a pick and choose thread me thinks, I like that fact, so I'll believe it


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Some Doorstep callers seem to invite ridicule. Regardless of whether they are calling to convert your loft or your religion. Everyone runs down/ridicules double glazing salesmen (which are mostly on commision only and are young lads trying to escape the dole). As with all walks of life, everyone remembers the 5% of callers that are determined to carry on speaking to you regardless of the fact that you have blatently told them you have no interest. The 95% that are polite and walk away do not stick in your mind. 

I've had cold callers of every type on my doorstep over the years, most are polite, as I am to them. A minority however, are not.  Once they see that I have no interest, they can, and on occasion do, get shirty. There has been more than one occasion where I have had to say this
" I have no interest in what you have to say, I have told you this and you are not listening, now I'm telling you this, so you don't think I am slamming the door in your face. I HAVE NO INTEREST AND AM SHUTTING THIS DOOR NOW, GOODBYE" and yes some of them have been JW's.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Now I dont think its fair to say anyone is lying! - there will be people who have had issues with JW's just as there are people who have had issues with other people coming to the door to sell stuff etc - not all are going to be nice and not all are going to be bad.....Its the way we handle it that is more in question I think!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Are you saying I made it up about my ex-MIL?


Why would you do that


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> Its the way we handle it that is more in question I think!


Very well said :thumbup1:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> If it happens ...





Amethyst said:


> Why would you do that


I wouldn't, but you seem to be querying my post, or are you agreeing? I'm not the only one confused by your choice of wording it appears, and you have queried in this thread about whether people are genuinely posting about their experiences (first or second hand) or not.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

myshkin said:


> Sleeping Lion, when the response you're getting is that you must be lying it suggests to me that you've probably proved your point. We're all making up stories about pushy doorstep preachers, it's completely in our heads and never happened.
> What an immature, unpleasant way to respond to a reasonably argued point.


*I for one have not said SL is lying but i know for a fact other/s did.But i will leave it at that.*


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Why mockery? And is an open forum the right place?*


Why mockery?

Well, if someone told you they were absolutely convinced that they had fairies living at the bottom of their garden, despite the fact that there is no way in the world that they could prove it, I am guessing that you would either think they were mentally ill, or completely stupid.
To me, all talk of God, Religion etc etc is exactly the same as a belief in fairies at the bottom of the garden, and my response is either incredulity or mirth.

Is an open forum the right place?

Probably not, and I have never commented on any particular religion on this forum, but this was a general question which I answered honestly from my particular point of view. Obviously others will disagree - which is, as I mentioned in my earlier post, freedom of thought and freedom of speech (something which some religions would love to deprive us of!)

Mick


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

raindog said:


> Why mockery?
> 
> Well, if someone told you they were absolutely convinced that they had fairies living at the bottom of their garden, despite the fact that there is no way in the world that they could prove it, I am guessing that you would either think they were mentally ill, or completely stupid.
> To me, all talk of God, Religion etc etc is exactly the same as a belief in fairies at the bottom of the garden, and my response is either incredulity or mirth.
> ...


*The thread has nothing to do with what someone believes or doesn't believe in.Its about showing respect.Surely thats not a hard topic to discuss.
If ANYONE doesn't like what the thread is about or has a problem keeping it on topic then why bother replying?*


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

raindog said:


> Why mockery?
> 
> Well, if someone told you they were absolutely convinced that they had fairies living at the bottom of their garden, despite the fact that there is no way in the world that they could prove it, I am guessing that you would either think they were mentally ill, or completely stupid.
> To me, all talk of God, Religion etc etc is exactly the same as a belief in fairies at the bottom of the garden, and my response is either incredulity or mirth.
> ...


There's an important distinction (and the law recognises it) between the right to hold beliefs and the right to have others agree with you. Hint: you don't have a right to the second one. So while I respect anyone's right to believe in anything they want, including mystical beings, I don't have to respect or give any credence to the belief itself. 
If we're all so keen on respect for others' beliefs, how come the religious folk need to save me? Isn't that kind of arrogant and high-handed? How about a little respect for my atheist ethical system?


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## tjk (Sep 1, 2010)

im sorry i havent read all through this thread yet (i will when i get the chance) 
i know nobody likes to feel like someone is taking the p**s out of them but this is a forum with alot of of users from all different backrounds EVERY one is entilted to his/her oppinion if you were offended you should talk to that person privately 
personally i dont mind jw so long as they take no for an answer some are more persistant than others i had a lovely lady down the road from me who used to come an have a chat she new i wouldnt convert but also new i was happy to talk and sometimes she said a prayer for us which was fine


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

myshkin said:


> There's an important distinction (and the law recognises it) between the right to hold beliefs and the right to have others agree with you. Hint: you don't have a right to the second one. So while I respect anyone's right to believe in anything they want, including mystical beings, I don't have to respect or give any credence to the belief itself.
> If we're all so keen on respect for others' beliefs, how come the religious folk need to save me? Isn't that kind of arrogant and high-handed? How about a little respect for my atheist ethical system?


Now if I said I wouldn't consider saving you, are you then going to ask me why you're not worth saving :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Now if I said I wouldn't consider saving you, are you then going to ask me why you're not worth saving :lol: :lol: :lol:


Nah, I'd be grateful! 
Every week I delete emails from a member of my family who knows I'm an atheist but insists on sending me religious propoganda to try to "turn me back to the faith". I have a sense of humour about it, and it's not worth falling out over, but I think it's quite out of order really. Imagine me regularly sending him philosophical writings disproving the existence of god - most people would think that was very disrespectful. But it's a one-way system of tolerance, it seems


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

IMO its about TOLERANCE and that goes for religion,race,culture etc etc! and everyone has different tolerance levels ....how we deal with that is our own problem really not the people who we are intolerant towards 

Last night was a classic example - I was getting the bus and there is a transvestite who regularly gets the same bus as me - now they dont bother me - yes you have a bit of a look the first few times you see them but after a while I got used to him and tbo I would die for his legs!! - a woman came to stand at the bus stop and she sat near me and started to talk about him and pointing etc which I thought was v rude! she was saying its not right etc etc god made him a man and thats what he should be....I could see the transvestite had heard and I felt sorry for him so I said well we are ALL human and deserve some respect regardless of what your opinion is - she just looked at me but it made me think about this thread! respect costs nothing.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Certain subjects are just guaranteed to end in tears:
Politics
Religion
Family in law
Accidental litters
Cesar Milan
Prong collars
Indoor/outdoor cats
Beatrice's hat


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## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

koekemakranka said:


> Certain subjects are just guaranteed to end in tears:
> Politics
> Religion
> Family in law
> ...


*And........Iams *


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Weirdly enough I meet a JW this morning! Was out walking the dogs when a lovely lady in a bright pink flowery frock cheerly said good morning and admired the dogs. Then she handed me a leaflet as she was passing and walked off.
As she was so very friendly, not pushy.....and liked my dogs! I actually took it home and read it.
Good grief, was it boring!! No wonder they have to stop and talk to people, their literature would put you to sleep. Think I prefer ancient mythology (greek, roman, viking),the stories are better!!


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> Think I prefer ancient mythology (greek, roman, viking),the stories are better!!


The Celtic mythology is pretty cool too - the Celtic warrior chicks had some serious attitude


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

myshkin said:


> The Celtic mythology is pretty cool too - the Celtic warrior chicks had some serious attitude


hence why Im pagan :lol:


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

The other week it was a lovely sunny day and I was upstairs probably on here!

Now despite me having a no cold caller notice on my door, the door was knocked by one and it set my dogs off barking then heard the neighbours dog barking as they rung her bell too.
I opened the door and no-one was there. There was a pair of them and he had already moved on to the neighbour the other side of me. 

I caught the attention of this other young lad at my other neighbours house and asked him if he was cold calling.

He quickly replied " not in this weather" with a cheeky grin.

Had to laugh and so love a sense of humour


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

niccipink said:


> why should we have to


May be you shouldn't have to. I was just offering a solution. I know this can work.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

My suspicions tell me that the OP just might be a Jehovahs Witness, hence the reason for this storm in a tea cup.

Of course I could be sorely mistaken and this whole fiasco is over nothing more than their own self righteousness.


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

blimey, everytime i go away this thread has another ten pages :

I think the point may lie in 2 main respects:

1: No one has suggested that JWs are horrible people. We are all reasonable adults and know this not to be true. I have JW mates, brought up as JWs, and yes, on the most part they are perfectly pleasant people. However, with ANY large group this rule does not apply to every single member of the religion. So it is just as likely other experience pushy or less than pleasant JWs. I know I have. Just because the majority are nice, doesnt mean people are lying and their arent a few bad eggs

2: Its a thing about peoples choices and respect for their personal space. Is everyone as polite and accepting to window salesmen when they call your home phone? Or phone companies that call your mobile? Or Street teams that invade your forums to promote a webpage or band.... these are people who may be perfectly nice people yet earn their wage by invading your personal space or choice of forum! Who doesnt have a friend or family member thats worked in a call centre? I know plenty, all nice, reasonable people just trying to earn a wage...
*Do they receive the same level of respect as JWs that come to your door*? I doubt they do, but really, what is the difference? They are promoting something, selling their religion to you... They do it to earn their place upstairs, the others do it to earn the food on their table and roof over their head.

_To be honest I dont think this thread is even really about JWs, its about freedom of speech. So many times threads are closed due to getting out of hand, and people reprimanded over comments which are deemed to be racist or insensitive, and i think possibly the OP feels that the same rules are not being applied to JW as a religion, as is applied to Muslims for example.
I dont agree with that being the case personally as threads regarding certain other religions are often alot more aggressive and "them and us", whereas JW threads are more about annoyance of having your space invaded rather than the religion or people._


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

And if we are going to talk about this "blanket" ban on annoyance about being preached to on your doorstep, we can accept the phonecalls, junkmail, door to door salesman, street salesman, spammers, with the same smile and good humour. Cos they are all doing it with some _decent agenda_. Whether it being trying to save your soul, do gods bidding, or feed the family and have somewhere to sleep at night.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Zaros said:


> My suspicions tell me that the OP just might be a Jehovahs Witness, hence the reason for this storm in a tea cup.
> 
> Of course I could be sorely mistaken and this whole fiasco is over nothing more than their own self righteousness.


*I can see like many others you have NOT read the whole thread.
I am NOT a JW and i'm NOT being selfrightious.
Why do people choose to think there is more to this than just plain old simple respect?
As for this being a storm in a tea cup some people have gone out of their way to turn this into something that its not.TYPICAL.:thumbdown:*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Getting nasty because I am highlighting that you have posted a joke about Jehovah's Witnesses?


Tbh anyone that puts a family member a young childs life secondary to someone, something they will never see, never speak to, well if i didnt know better i would think they were having a joke themselves.

But to get back to the original question, no its not ok to take the **** but depends on how you view a comment or someones view.


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

Religion is such a touchy subject it is like politics, it always end up in an argument and people are set with there beliefs however much we may try and change there minds.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I can see like many others you have NOT read the whole thread.
> I am NOT a JW and i'm NOT being selfrightious.
> Why do people choose to think there is more to this than just plain old simple respect?
> As for this being a storm in a tea cup some people have gone out of their way to turn this into something that its not.TYPICAL.:thumbdown:*


I really do struggle to understand why they believe in what they believe in, this no to blood transfusions so therefore i find it hard to have any repect for people that have no respect for lives. I have never been rude to any at my door, only once was i very blunt and matter of fact, but not rude.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> I really do struggle to understand why they believe in what they believe in, this no to blood transfusions so therefore i find it hard to have any repect for people that have no respect for lives. I have never been rude to any at my door, only once was i very blunt and matter of fact, but not rude.


Agree 100% Theres something not right in someones head if they can refuse their child a donor and then go on to sit and watch their child die :mad5:


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

before i start better say im not telling any lies here

my friends Mum and another JW i know, found out where i live and pester the life out of me....im never rude to anyone and it makes it so hard to say no because i know them and grew up with their kids...ive had to keep lying saying im just going out or have visitors ...they make me feel awful,....now they know im soft natured so they persist in trying to convert me but it'll never happen i might be soft but o know my own mind, im just hoping theyve finally got the message but i fear the worst,... so what about when they prey on someone whos vunerable?? i know a lovely girl her hubby died in the most horrific accident, it was in all the papers it was so awful, she has a little girl.... shes now become a JW...but what if that little girl ever needs a blood transfusion??:frown2: i know my childhood friends wouldnt have been allowed one should they have needed one...their religeon risks lives they shouldnt be pushing it onto people imo.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

* pmsl Who is trying to make anyone understand the JW faith? I could reel off no end of religions i don't agree with and that includes JW's.But i won't lower myself to take the mick out of them.*


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> * pmsl Who is trying to make anyone understand the JW faith? I could reel off no end of religions i don't agree with and that includes JW's.But i won't lower myself to take the mick out of them.*


Im still a little confused, I must have missed something vital as I dont think iv seen anyone take the mick out of them at all. Criticise their methods of preaching, yes, criticise some of their practices, yes, but every religion undergoes critique and have done on these forums in the past. 
But not take the mick, belittle or mock them.
Can you expand, just to fill gaps i have obviously missed


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> * pmsl Who is trying to make anyone understand the JW faith? I could reel off no end of religions i don't agree with and that includes JW's.But i won't lower myself to take the mick out of them.*


whos taking the mick?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I can see like many others you have NOT read the whole thread.
> 
> As for this being a storm in a tea cup some people have gone out of their way to turn this into something that its not.TYPICAL.:thumbdown:*


You're absolutely right Janice I did not read the whole thread and decided not to simply because your original post said everything I needed to know.

However, and with respect, I see no good reason why a perfectly innocent thread, based on the observations/experiences of an actual event hinged to that of an apparent religious event and the frustrating reality of its consequences, should be removed without trace or decency of an explanation because someone in the shadows deemed it offensive and disrespectful.

Truth may be offensive to those who want to hide it away but the unfortunate reality is we simply cannot hide from it.



haeveymolly said:


> Tbh anyone that puts a family member a young childs life secondary to someone, something they will never see, never speak to, well if i didnt know better i would think they were having a joke.


And just how many JW children, I wonder, over and above the ones who made it into the newspapers, have been made wards of court because the medical profession has asked the legal system to intervene in the imminent death of a child without their assistance? :confused5:


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Savahl said:


> Im still a little confused, I must have missed something vital as I dont think iv seen anyone take the mick out of them at all. Criticise their methods of preaching, yes, criticise some of their practices, yes, but every religion undergoes critique and have done on these forums in the past.
> But not take the mick, belittle or mock them.
> Can you expand, just to fill gaps i have obviously missed


Have you ever heard the expression... keep telling yourself something and you will end up believing it?
I think some people are putting it into practice


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Zaros said:


> Truth may be offensive to those who want to hide it away but the unfortunate reality is we simply cannot hide from it.


Not sure about the "truth" being offensive, whataver that great truth may be 

But your original thread about JW's was certainly offensive, though thankfully now hidden by the mods


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

jehova whitnesess are lovely people at least the congregation i new were, if you take a leaflet they will call back next week as that is what it is a call back this in there eyes means there getting somewhere your reading the info and wanting more so it will happen every month/week etc. 
they are verry true to there beliefs hence y they go around your homes it is what they believe is expected of them .they do not go to church but go to the kingdom hall instead where they meet up a few times a week. 
they dont do birthdays as this is praising someone other than god/jehova(if i remember correctly) and they dont do christmas because ......soz forgot but i do remember them saying jesus never celebrated birthdauys and the only mention of it in the bible was when john the baptists head was served up again if memory serves me right. i know if they knocked you could tell them to put you on there no call list , this way you never get them nocking again , saying this it has been nearly 8 yrs since i had anything to do with them but i would asume it is still the same, i know they aint knocked my door since.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

shells said:


> jehova whitnesess are lovely people at least the congregation i new were, if you take a leaflet they will call back next week as that is what it is a call back this in there eyes means there getting somewhere your reading the info and wanting more so it will happen every month/week etc.
> they are verry true to there beliefs hence y they go around your homes it is what they believe is expected of them .they do not go to church but go to the kingdom hall instead where they meet up a few times a week.
> they dont do birthdays as this is praising someone other than god/jehova(if i remember correctly) and they dont do christmas because ......soz forgot but i do remember them saying jesus never celebrated birthdauys and the only mention of it in the bible was when john the baptists head was served up again if memory serves me right. i know if they knocked you could tell them to put you on there no call list , this way you never get them nocking again , saying this it has been nearly 8 yrs since i had anything to do with them but i would asume it is still the same, i know they aint knocked my door since.


I think you make a good point Shells when you say they are true to THEIR beliefs ... and that is something many people cannot grasp. Possibly because they do not have such strong religous/spititual faith themselves?

Our neighbours NEVER pushed their beliefs and I spent, many happy hours in their home and garden with their daughter ... and she in ours.

As far as celebrating birthdays and Christmas, I know they as a family enjoyed planned "treats" that we did not and thier mum said to mine that it was so that they too had special days to look forward to and gifts during the year. I don't think these were a substitute for BD's Christmas as such, but simply special family time.

I remember these people as a lovely family, their daughter as a good childhood friend, very *gasp* ordinary and kind and we all missed them when they moved home. Happy days


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

shells said:


> if you take a leaflet they will call back next week as that is what it is a call back this in there eyes means there getting somewhere your reading the info and wanting more so it will happen every month/week etc.
> e.


Im glad I only met one on the street yesterday then when I took a leaflet!!(unless she followed me home!!)...


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> Im glad I only met one on the street yesterday then when I took a leaflet!!(unless she followed me home!!)...


They came here a few weeks ago and thankfully I saw it was them so didn't bother answering the door. They posted a leaflet through the letter box which went right in the bin, not interested in religion in any shape or form and I haven't even been christened. :laugh:


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

Amazon are normally pretty good on pricing


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Amazon are normally pretty good on pricing


Je ne comprehende!!


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> But your original thread about JW's was certainly offensive, though thankfully now hidden by the mods


You'll have to try your very best to explain that to me because quite honestly I believe your statement is based on nothing more than over sensitive hysteria!

If you have any difficulty in the task of offering a well balanced explanation then might I suggest you find an adult to help you?


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Je ne comprehende!!


Me neither. :laugh:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Zaros said:


> If you have any difficulty in the task of offering a well balanced explanation then might I suggest you find an adult to help you?


Oh dear, you are having to resort to childish personal insults ... :hand:


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## hope (May 25, 2011)

i also find it anoying when you have people like that knocking on your door and they dont seems to get the picture when you say sorry im not interested! they carrie on reading out there book!

another thing that gets on my wick is people who post them bag clothes as we havve one every other day HELLO WHAT ARE CHARITY SHOPS FOR ! and pluss why would i want to help other countrys out when our own country has problems !


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Cant believe this thread is still going!....and still contencious!
Perhaps I should take the pressure off by posting a "why 7th day adventists eat their own babies" thread!


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

regarding blood transfusions

it is mentioned in the bible in Acts chapter 15 verse 28,29 it mentions to keep abstaining from blood and u will have good health!

think of some blood transfusions people have had where they become ill and sometimes it has not be tested properly then that person gets a disease from it.

Volume replacement can be accomplished without using whole blood or blood plasma.* Various nonblood fluids are effective volume expanders. The simplest is saline (salt) solution, which is both inexpensive and compatible with our blood. There are also fluids with special properties, such as dextran, Haemaccel, and lactated Ringer's solution. Hetastarch (HES) is a newer volume expander, and "it can be safely recommended for those [burn] patients who object to blood products." (Journal of Burn Care & Rehabilitation, January/February 1989) Such fluids have definite advantages. "Crystalloid solutions [such as normal saline and lactated Ringer's solution], Dextran and HES are relatively nontoxic and inexpensive, readily available, can be stored at room temperature, require no compatibility testing and are free of the risk of transfusion-transmitted disease." Blood Transfusion Therapy A Physician's Handbook, 1989.

You may ask, though, 'Why do nonblood replacement fluids work well, since I need red cells to get oxygen throughout my body?' As mentioned, you have oxygen-carrying reserves. If you lose blood, marvelous compensatory mechanisms start up. Your heart pumps more blood with each beat. Since the lost blood was replaced with a suitable fluid, the now diluted blood flows more easily, even in the small vessels. As a result of chemical changes, more oxygen is released to the tissues. These adaptations are so effective that if only half of your red cells remain, oxygen delivery may be about 75 percent of normal. A patient at rest uses only 25 percent of the oxygen available in his blood. And most general anesthetics reduce the body's need for oxygen

Physicians can also help their patients to form more red cells. How? By giving them iron-containing preparations (into muscles or veins), which can aid the body in making red cells three to four times faster than normal. Recently another help has become available. Your kidneys produce a hormone called erythropoietin (EPO), which stimulates bone marrow to form red cells. Now synthetic (recombinant) EPO is available. Doctors may give this to some anemic patients, thus helping them to form replacement red cells very quickly.

And there are other ways to help. Cooling a patient to lessen his oxygen needs during surgery. Hypotensive anesthesia. Therapy to improve coagulation. Desmopressin (DDAVP) to shorten bleeding time. Laser "scalpels." You will see the list grow as physicians and concerned patients seek to avoid blood transfusions. We hope that you never lose a great amount of blood. But if you did, it is very likely that skilled doctors could manage your care without using blood transfusions, which have so many risks

and read this

THIS question came to the fore in Nigeria when it was found that a baby girl was infected with HIV through a blood transfusion she received at one of Nigerias leading hospitals.

According to the hospitals medical director, soon after Eniolas birth, she was found to be jaundiced. An exchange blood transfusion was prescribed, and the father donated some units of blood. But the fathers blood was found to be incompatible, so blood from the hospitals blood bank was administered. Before long, the baby tested positive for HIV, though both parents tested negative. According to the hospital, the blood transfused into the baby was screened and found to be HIV-negative at the time it was transfused into the baby.

How, then, did the baby get infected? The Nigerian government investigated the controversy and concluded that the likely source of the infection was the transfused blood. The Nigerian Tribune newspaper quoted a virologist as saying: At the time of donating the blood, the donor was at the window period of HIV infection.

This is but a single case, yet it highlights the fact that blood transfusions are not risk free. Describing the HIV window period, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says: It can take some time for the immune system to produce enough antibodies for the antibody test to detect and this time period can vary from person to person. This time period is commonly referred to as the window period. Most people will develop detectable antibodies within 2 to 8 weeks (the average is 25 days). Even so, there is a chance that some individuals will take longer to develop detectable antibodies. . . . In very rare cases, it can take up to 6 months.

So, the fact that blood has been screened for HIV is no guarantee that it is safe. The San Francisco AIDS Foundation warns: Although HIV may not be detected by a test during the window period, HIV can be transmitted during that time. In fact, individuals are often most infectious during this time (shortly after they have been exposed to HIV).

i know which i'd rather have!!


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Oh dear, you are having to resort to childish personal insults


Suggesting you fulfil a requirement and offering advice in the event that you are encumbered by some form of difficulty in doing so is not an insult.

This, on the other hand, is an insult; *You're insane!*

Do you see the difference?


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Zaros said:


> Suggesting you fulfil a requirement and offering advice in the event that you are encumbered by some form of difficulty in doing so is not an insult.
> 
> This, on the other hand, is an insult; *You're insane!*
> 
> Do you see the difference?


Do you realise how pathetic you sound ... Now is that an insult or a question? No question mark ...

Maybe ask an adult if you aren't sure


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Do you realise how pathetic you sound ... Now is that an insult or a question? No question mark ...
> 
> Maybe ask an adult if you aren't sure


Just quit it!
You were making nasty remarks to me the other day now your starting on someone else!
Do you not see he was not insulting you?
If you are not mature enough to carry out an adult conversation without making nasty remarks then maybe a public forum isnt for you?
Or we could get the mods to add a childrens chat section?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

blade100 said:


> regarding blood transfusions
> 
> it is mentioned in the bible in Acts chapter 15 verse 28,29 it mentions to keep abstaining from blood and u will have good health!
> 
> ...


oh please!

for goodness sake get things into perspective....blood transfusions save thousands of lives every year!.... my Mum would be dead twice over had she not had blood transfusions! she had one when she heamorraged and lost her 1st baby and several pints after open heart surgery.

would you deny your child a transfusion if the needed one?


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> oh please!
> 
> for goodness sake get things into perspective....blood transfusions save thousands of lives every year!.... my Mum would be dead twice over had she not had blood transfusions! she had one when she heamorraged and lost her 1st baby and several pints after open heart surgery.
> 
> would you deny your child a transfusion if the needed one?


Thats what i cant get my head round... its just utter madness.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> oh please!
> 
> for goodness sake get things into perspective....blood transfusions save thousands of lives every year!.... my Mum would be dead twice over had she not had blood transfusions! she had one when she heamorraged and lost her 1st baby and several pints after open heart surgery.
> 
> would you deny your child a transfusion if the needed one?


*I'm not going to get into a heated debate about the blood transfusion issue.But i fail to see how anyone can make a statement like this WITHOUT knowing ALL the FACTS.
How many times do people on this forum slag of the news for not getting their facts RIGHT.Strange though don't you think that you never hear of the success stories where not taking blood is concerned?*


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Thank you Janice. many people seem to forget just how many people go through an op successfully withouthaving to have blood but they never seem to print that in the paper. The only things u do hear are when things go wrong! Or should I say when thedoctors don't know how to use bloodless machines properly!!

I just thought I'd say yes I study with jehovahs witnesses I am not one yet.
I too was just like yourselves the way u go on about them knocking at your doors. I used to hide too.
After listening to them and taking the time to hear what they were saying and looking over the bible it's got me very interested.
If u don't want them knocking don't avoid them or they'll just keep coming back simply answer and say to them u are not interested so please take my house number off your list and don't call again!

Thing is I have had money problems in the past and had letters saying a bailiff will becoming round so I think u are lucky that it's only witnesses your getting!!!


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

My main issue with any religion really is context, the bible, as an example needs to be taken in context of the time in which it was written.

Abstaining from blood; the reason JW's refuse transfusions; was written at a time when the only way to recieve blood would have been through ingestion - seeing as transfusions werent about until the late 1600's I doubt it was written with this in mind. 

JWs believe that blood represents the gift of life from god, from scriptures that outdate modern scientific understanding of the human body and its workings, as well as medical procedures. One common argument is god gave us the gift of intellegence and inquistive human nature and so medical advancements such as transfusion are only doing what HE created us to do...

Anywho....this is not a theological debate! And not for any one of us to say what is right or wrong for each individual... we can talk about it, discuss it, but faith is faith and not ours to take away from any one person. I see the bible as a contextual writings from a time gone by, the next person sees it as Gods word, the next sees it as a human interpretation of Gods word.
The beauty about theology is that no one will ever know who is right, as everyone believes their faith to be right and true. And maybe it is, maybe God manefests itself in many ways.
Or maybe im going to hell :mad5: 

Whether or not JWs are right in what the believe is neither here nor there, the main point of contention is their right to push those beliefs on others (which they are encouraged against, dont waste your time on those who do not wish to see sort of approach), and their right to enforce their beliefs on their kids. But who in this world doesnt raise their children to live to their sets of values and beliefs. Thats why faith schools exist, its human nature.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

blade100 said:


> Thank you Janice. many people seem to forget just how many people go through an op successfully withouthaving to have blood but they never seem to print that in the paper. The only things u do hear are when things go wrong! Or should I say when thedoctors don't know how to use bloodless machines properly!!
> 
> I just thought I'd say yes I study with jehovahs witnesses I am not one yet.
> I too was just like yourselves the way u go on about them knocking at your doors. I used to hide too.
> ...


Yeah its the doctors fault isnt it?


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Not sure about the "truth" being offensive, whataver that great truth may be
> 
> But your original thread about JW's was certainly offensive, though thankfully now hidden by the mods


Do you use all those blue emoticons in a deliberate attempt to antagonise everyone you communicate with, or do you just not understand what they mean? Genuine question, I'm still undecided as to whether there's intent or ignorance at play here.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Many doctors only know the way of blood transfusing so they aren't shown how these machines work properly. Therefore a young child died because the doctors were messing about trying to work out how this volume expanding machine worked.

There are many people who are not JW opting for bloodless ops etc.
It's a safer way and a quicker way of recovery.
But why am I wasting my time here explaining to u for.
If u google all the info is there.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *I'm not going to get into a heated debate about the blood transfusion issue.But i fail to see how anyone can make a statement like this WITHOUT knowing ALL the FACTS.
> How many times do people on this forum slag of the news for not getting their facts RIGHT.Strange though don't you think that you never hear of the success stories where not taking blood is concerned?*


well if i were the parents of this poor lad i'd couldnt live with myself:frown2:

Teenage Jehovah's Witness refuses blood transfusion and dies - Telegraph

and tbh Janice i'd always go with what the doctors advised where my kids are concerned...because i want them to have the very best chance of survival!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

With the very greatest respect Google is the last place on earth i would look for Medical advice of this nature


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> well if i were the parents of this poor lad i'd couldnt live with myself:frown2:
> 
> Teenage Jehovah's Witness refuses blood transfusion and dies - Telegraph
> 
> and tbh Janice i'd always go with what the doctors advised where my kids are concerned...because i want them to have the very best chance of survival!


No good parent would let their child die like that:frown2: or let their religion dictate what medical intervention a child can and cant have.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

blade100 said:


> Thank you Janice. many people seem to forget just how many people go through an op successfully withouthaving to have blood but they never seem to print that in the paper. The only things u do hear are when things go wrong! Or should I say when thedoctors don't know how to use bloodless machines properly!!
> 
> I just thought I'd say yes I study with jehovahs witnesses I am not one yet.
> I too was just like yourselves the way u go on about them knocking at your doors. I used to hide too.
> ...


*
*

A bailiff ( not a debt collecter) is appointed by the court after a judgement has been made against you and would visit after attempts contacting you previously have failed in getting the monies owed.

Therefore whilst I can understand they are an unwelcome visitor a county court bailiff is doing his job.

A JW is different and if people don't want them to be knocking at their doors they are entitled not to have them to do so.

I don't expect people to be out right rude though and that goes for anyone knocking at your door. A simple " not interested thanks" and closure of door in most cases usually suffices.

The info you have given regarding transfusions has been interesting but unable to comment as have never looked into this and I would prefer to comments with facts than feeling in this instance.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

As a parent to see your child very poorly, must be every parents nightmare. (I don't even like typing this because I don't like tempting fate). If one of my children was in need of a blood transfusion, I am afraid I will go with a Drs recommendation whom ahs had 7 years medical training plus years of on the job training as opposed to some obscure info off the internet that one has googled.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> well if i were the parents of this poor lad i'd couldnt live with myself:frown2:
> 
> Teenage Jehovah's Witness refuses blood transfusion and dies - Telegraph
> 
> and tbh Janice i'd always go with what the doctors advised where my kids are concerned...because i want them to have the very best chance of survival!


*The lad himself made the choice.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> As a parent to see your child very poorly, must be every parents nightmare. (I don't even like typing this because I don't like tempting fate). If one of my children was in need of a blood transfusion, I am afraid I will go with a Drs recommendation whom ahs had 7 years medical training plus years of on the job training as opposed to some obscure info off the internet that one has googled.


Think this is why i struggle with Religion in general, just about every type has "absolutes" that i can't get my head round. I see the benefits of having a faith but i can't get past the "teachings" with most of them there is something that i fundamentally disagree with which kind of counts me out.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *The lad himself made the choice.*


He was 15 Janice 

My 15 year old daughter decides she is going to starve herself because someone has told her its "the thing to do to be a model" Do i just accept that as her "choice" ..... Hell No !! My Baby My Responsibility My job to protect !!


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Gosh this thread has really gone all round the housesin answer to your question Jan NEVER


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *The lad himself made the choice.*


 :frown2:

.......


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

harley bear said:


> Or we could get the mods to add a childrens chat section?


now that sounds like a great idea 

right up my street


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> He was 15 Janice
> 
> My 15 year old daughter decides she is going to starve herself because someone has told her its "the thing to do to be a model" Do i just accept that as her "choice" ..... Hell No !! My Baby My Responsibility My job to protect !!


*Ok as much as i hate the idea of going off topic i will reply.
If your 15 yr old made the choice to carry a donor card, would you respect their wishes or make your own choice? Again it comes back to respecting others.What you don't agree with is your choice,but the has to apply the other way aoround.We may not like what others think or believe but it is up to them.*


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

blade100 said:


> Many doctors only know the way of blood transfusing so they aren't shown how these machines work properly. Therefore a young child died because the doctors were messing about trying to work out how this volume expanding machine worked.
> 
> There are many people who are not JW opting for bloodless ops etc.
> It's a safer way and a quicker way of recovery.
> ...


Good job I ain't a JW thenas I'vehad twoblood transfusions! But then again - maybe there are some on here..............


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> They were though ...
> 
> I am wondering how some of the negative and quite downright nasty posts would make any of our members or of course visitors feel if they are Jehovah's Witnesses
> 
> Not very nice I would imagine ...


But like many people have said they don't enjoy having their doors knocked (normally at the worst time!)

Although the JW you have come across may take a nice no thank you alot of people don't get the same. We've had 2 sets knock on our door. The first set left easily. The second set after a nice polite no thank you... then treid to convince me I wanted to study the bible with them... and would not go away!

I get the same when I get muslims venture into my pet shop. The majority of them make abusive comments about my dogs being in the shop. The men are normally rude to me because no I will not "put" my dogs away its my pet shop.

I understand for religiouse reasons they feel dogs are unclean... so that should mean that to respect their religion they don't want me to venture any were with my dogs.. as it offends them! They are currently trying to push preston council to ban dog walking on parks and enforce strict dog only areas (which are the size of a tennis court!)

Religions are very complicated and their will always be people that are offended by what is said or felt or believed. I don't judge people on their religion. However if they try to ram it down my throught or make me change my life to fit with their beliefs...they get a very strong worded warning. Which if they ignore I will get harsh.

But surely I have a right to protect my own beliefs?


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Good job I ain't a JW thenas I'vehad twoblood transfusions! But then again - maybe there are some on here..............


That bloody explains a lot then !!

why you is a nutter :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok as much as i hate the idea of going off topic i will reply.
> If your 15 yr old made the choice to carry a donor card, would you respect their wishes or make your own choice? Again it comes back to respecting others.What you don't agree with is your choice,but the has to apply the other way aoround.We may not like what others think or believe but it is up to them.*


I thought 17 was the minimum age to carry a donor card?


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

gorgeous said:


> I thought 17 was the minimum age to carry a donor card?


I think it is.

Also if parents didnt make the very difficult decision to let their children donat hundreds of thousands of lives would be lost..babies and young children. 
Its very sad but its true.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Not all JWs refuse blood transfusions IME.
I work on a medical ward with people whose conditions can result in really traumatic blood losses very quickly leaving no time to investigate other treatments (which are never going to be as effective as whole blood). I have to say when told they will def die without blood in the bext 24hours as many JWs said yes as said no.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok as much as i hate the idea of going off topic i will reply.
> If your 15 yr old made the choice to carry a donor card, would you respect their wishes or make your own choice? Again it comes back to respecting others.What you don't agree with is your choice,but the has to apply the other way aoround.We may not like what others think or believe but it is up to them.*


The 2 are not comparable  Carrying a donor card does not pose a threat to my childs life 

You may have a deeper understanding of this religion and their reasons for this element but do you think that it's right ?


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> Not all JWs refuse blood transfusions IME.
> I work on a medical ward with people whose conditions can result in really traumatic blood losses very quickly leaving no time to investigate other treatments (which are never going to be as effective as whole blood). I have to say when told they will def die without blood in the bext 24hours as many JWs said yes as said no.


hypocrites then when death is staring em in the face!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> hypocrites they when death is staring em in the face!


As the old saying goes .... practice what you preach


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

CharleyRogan said:


> Round here its not once in a while! They are in the town centre nearly everyday, and come knocking about once every 2 weeks. The same people insist on knocking and don't take no for an answer even though I tell them I have my own religion, and I respect you are doing what's expected of you by your own religion, but please leave me alone.
> 
> Charity workers are another thing that wind me up as well. In the town centre..... everyday its only £8 a month... if I gave to every charity it would cost me a fortune!


& atleast 10% of that £8 goes on admin charges..... oh wait a new car is a tax deductable for the charity..... by the big cheese driving round in a hummer this helps the poor kiddies in Africa that I'm sending the money for


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


gorgeous said:



I thought 17 was the minimum age to carry a donor card?

Click to expand...

I gave that as an example thats why i said "if".



RAINYBOW said:



The 2 are not comparable  Carrying a donor card does not pose a threat to my childs life 

You may have a deeper understanding of this religion and their reasons for this element but do you think that it's right ?

Click to expand...

Yes i do know a lot about this religion as i've stated in previous posts.Do i believe they are right? Yes if that is their faith and belief.*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

catz4m8z said:


> Not all JWs refuse blood transfusions IME.
> I work on a medical ward with people whose conditions can result in really traumatic blood losses very quickly leaving no time to investigate other treatments (which are never going to be as effective as whole blood). I have to say when told they will def die without blood in the bext 24hours as many JWs said yes as said no.


*But the truth is, not one of us can say hand on heart how we will react when faced with death.*


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *But the truth is, not one of us can say hand on heart how we will react when faced with death.*


The answer to that is.... you do whatever is bloody possible to save your childs life.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> I gave that as an example thats why i said "if".
> 
> Yes i do know a lot about this religion as i've stated in previous posts.Do i believe they are right? Yes if that is their faith and belief.*


But belief is belief wether it is wrapped up in a religion or not. For eg it is my "belief" that as a parent my sole existence is to protect my kids from harm ? Therefore it is highly unlikely i will ever understand or agree with the JWs stance on transfusion.

Belief isn't just for the Religions and i think what alot of people have expressed are their own "beliefs", eg that they don't feel it is acceptable for people to preach at them at their doors. It's not mocking or Piss taking or being disrespectful, in the main it was just expressing a belief.

You know as i have said that there are times on here when an expressed opinion about someones beliefs can be offensive and like i have said i dont think that has ever been acceptable but to avoid all the Merry Go Rounds i have found it really is easier just to report the individual post rather than risk everyone who makes a comment about the JW religion thinking they have caused offence somehow which i am sure wasn't the case


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> But belief is belief wether it is wrapped up in a religion or not. For eg it is my "belief" that as a parent my sole existence is to protect my kids from harm ? Therefore it is highly unlikely i will ever understand or agree with the JWs stance on transfusion.
> 
> Belief isn't just for the Religions and i think what alot of people have expressed are their own "beliefs", eg that they don't feel it is acceptable for people to preach at them at their doors. It's not mocking or Piss taking or being disrespectful, in the main it was just expressing a belief.
> 
> You know as i have said that there are times on here when an expressed opinion about someones beliefs can be offensive and like i have said i dont think that has ever been acceptable but to avoid all the Merry Go Rounds i have found it really is easier just to report the individual post rather than risk everyone who makes a comment about the JW religion thinking they have caused offence somehow which i am sure wasn't the case


*Belief and faith are 2 seperate things imo.As for merry go rounds surely if people don't like it why do they feel the need to respond? So who is making this "merry go round"? *


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Belief and faith are 2 seperate things imo.As for merry go rounds surely if people don't like it why do they feel the need to respond? So who is making this "merry go round"? *


Sorry i assumed by posting this thread you wanted to open a debate as you asked it as a question 

So what you were aiming for is making a blanket statement, everyone who agrees with you doing so and anyone who doesn't ignores the thread  What's the point in that then, you may aswell have just PMd a MOD.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Sorry i assumed by posting this thread you wanted to open a debate as you asked it as a question
> 
> So what you were aiming for is making a blanket statement, everyone who agrees with you doing so and anyone who doesn't ignores the thread  What's the point in that then, you may aswell have just PMd a MOD.


*lmao...Had people just stuck to the topic i dare say this thread would have run its course,i can't be blamed for that.Again i will repeat myself, i DID report the the threads.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *lmao...Had people just stuck to the topic i dare say this thread would have run its course,i can't be blamed for that.Again i will repeat myself, i DID report the the threads.*


think i answered the question pretty early on too 
My post read "just" pmd a MOD .

Will leave you to it then


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Maybe this thread has run it's course now and should be closed?????


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> Maybe this thread has run it's course now and should be closed?????


I would say that is for Janice to request or the mods to decide


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> Maybe this thread has run it's course now and should be closed?????


Totally agree! This thread has more than run its course!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> Maybe this thread has run it's course now and should be closed?????


* Surely most threads on here have "run there course" but haven't been closed.I'm sure only those interested will reply or just read it.*


----------



## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> * Surely most threads on here have "run there course" but haven't been closed.I'm sure only those interested will reply or just read it.*


Yeah, it's always struck me as odd why some members want threads closed, their own, fair enough, their shout, ... but other peoples, it's bit cheeky


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Firstly it was a suggestion not a request so get your facts right Amethyst.

It was merely said as Janice herself has said it's been a merry-go-round. and people had strayed from the subject matter.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> Firstly it was a suggestion not a request so get your facts right Amethyst.
> 
> It was merely said as Janice herself has said it's been a merry-go-round. and people had strayed from the subject matter.


:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> But belief is belief wether it is wrapped up in a religion or not. For eg it is my "belief" that as a parent my sole existence is to protect my kids from harm ? Therefore it is highly unlikely i will ever understand or agree with the JWs stance on transfusion.
> 
> Belief isn't just for the Religions and i think what alot of people have expressed are their own "beliefs", eg that they don't feel it is acceptable for people to preach at them at their doors. It's not mocking or Piss taking or being disrespectful, in the main it was just expressing a belief.
> 
> You know as i have said that there are times on here when an expressed opinion about someones beliefs can be offensive and like i have said i dont think that has ever been acceptable but to avoid all the Merry Go Rounds i have found it really is easier just to report the individual post rather than risk everyone who makes a comment about the JW religion thinking they have caused offence somehow which i am sure wasn't the case


well said Rainy!

no human and no God will ever take priority over my kids welfare!


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> Firstly it was a suggestion not a request so get your facts right Amethyst.
> 
> It was merely said as Janice herself has said it's been a merry-go-round. and people had strayed from the subject matter.


*I was only repeating the phrase that was said to me.*


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Religion is always going to case arguments unfortunately. I can remember arguing with someone at work coz they didnt believe in evolution!! It just wasnt believable to them that a fish suddenly decided to crawl onto land!!LOL
Personally I couldnt understand why it had to be either Adam and Eve or evolution....couldnt God have created dinosaurs and evolution???


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok as much as i hate the idea of going off topic i will reply.
> If your 15 yr old made the choice to carry a donor card, would you respect their wishes or make your own choice? Again it comes back to respecting others.What you don't agree with is your choice,but the has to apply the other way aoround.We may not like what others think or believe but it is up to them.*


he was a minor... and if he was brought up in that religeon than his parents are to blame for the poor lads fateful decision!


----------



## Guest (May 26, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> Religion is always going to case arguments unfortunately. I can remember arguing with someone at work coz they didnt believe in evolution!! It just wasnt believable to them that a fish suddenly decided to crawl onto land!!LOL
> Personally I couldnt understand why it had to be either Adam and Eve or evolution....couldnt God have created dinosaurs and evolution???


I was watching the big question this week which was about whether religion had a place in society these days, and a few on their were religious as well as scientific. One priest actually said that seeing evolutional evidence and the extreme complexity of the physical world made her more in awe of gods creation and work, the more she learned. So retaining their faith whilst accepting scientific fact.
There are alot of religious scientists


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> he was a minor... and if he was brought up in that religeon than his parents are to blame for the poor lads fateful decision!


It should be made illegal for a minor to deny treatment.

How on earth as a parent do these people live with themselves?


----------



## Guest (May 26, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> Sorry i assumed by posting this thread you wanted to open a debate as you asked it as a question
> 
> So what you were aiming for is making a blanket statement, everyone who agrees with you doing so and anyone who doesn't ignores the thread  What's the point in that then, you may aswell have just PMd a MOD.


You make a good point there Rainybows! I could never understand why some folk make controversial threads of forums and then create when folk have differing views! It is the same when 'some' ask a question and they check their dummies out when they replies that they don't want to hear!
But then I guess every forum has one!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> he was a minor... and if he was brought up in that religeon than his parents are to blame for the poor lads fateful decision!


*I have given my answer on that subject,which wasn't the topic.As i've said,why post on this thread if you want to talk about something else?*


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> You make a good point there Rainybows! I could never understand why some folk make controversial threads of forums and then create when folk have differing views! It is the same when 'some' ask a question and they check their dummies out when they replies that they don't want to hear!
> But then I guess every forum has one!


or two


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *I have given my answer on that subject,which wasn't the topic.As i've said,why post on this thread if you want to talk about something else?*


The thing with conversations is they evolve. Talking about one thing inevitably leads to another, its what makes for interesting debate. I dont think talking about the actions of a minor that is acting under JW scripture is so out of context to a thread regarding the way people regard JWs as a whole - its one of the major factors which cause the animosity to the group.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *I have given my answer on that subject,which wasn't the topic.As i've said,why post on this thread if you want to talk about something else?*


most topics take a different tangent eventually dont they


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

Also, in order to truely respect anothers faith or religion, its best to understand most of what you can about it. So surely you would support the discussion of transfusions if it leads to heightened understanding and in the future peoples posts may be more informed.


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> most topics take a different tangent eventually dont they


Depends how 'interesting' the person or people you are taking to is/are Noush

For instance I can start taking books with Rainybow and it often gets around to firemens bums!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> most topics take a different tangent eventually dont they





Savahl said:


> Also, in order to truely respect anothers faith or religion, its best to understand most of what you can about it. So surely you would support the discussion of transfusions if it leads to heightened understanding and in the future peoples posts may be more informed.


*As both of you know i will and do have debates on things and i enjoy them.I asked a simple question at the start of this thread.The question had nothing to do with what people think of the JW faith.Now i have no problem with someone starting their own thread on that topic.*


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *As both of you know i will and do have debates on things and i enjoy them.I asked a simple question at the start of this thread.The question had nothing to do with what people think of the JW faith.Now i have no problem with someone starting their own thread on that topic.*


OH LORDY

Why dont you write a set of rules and regs on exactly people are alloud to talk about on UR threads. Its silly really isnt it?


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *As both of you know i will and do have debates on things and i enjoy them.I asked a simple question at the start of this thread.The question had nothing to do with what people think of the JW faith.Now i have no problem with someone starting their own thread on that topic.*


But it was about respect, and this in turn results in people almost defending their stance on the faith based on specifics. For some reason we are rarely on the same side of a debate lol, and I have always found you to be generally respectful in your responses, and I hope you do in return. I just feel the need to make sense of the direction in which the thread has turned, i do not think its intentionally off thread, merely an evolved version of the original topic


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *I personaly find it very offensive that twice in the last couple of weeks the Jehovah's Witnesses religion has had the p*ss taken out of it on this forum.I thought our members could rise about that sort of crap.*


*Now is this realy that hard to answer?
I'm not of the faith but i found posts offensive towards the JW's.And i wasn't alone.*


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

To be fair its not really a question rather a statement. I obviously missed the offending posts so dont have full Clarity of the issues raised, but like i said, those who have posted regarding JWs may have felt differently about whether it was offensive or not and so have felt the need to justify their comments almost. As it is quite a directive statement.

I had the same reaction, i posted about being irritated by door knockers a few weeks back - didnt feel it was disrespectful or offensive but felt the need to justify my position; and from that debate arises and issues are taken at tangents.

I dont see there is anything wrong with a thread evolving


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Savahl said:


> To be fair its not really a question rather a statement. I obviously missed the offending posts so dont have full Clarity of the issues raised, but like i said, those who have posted regarding JWs may have felt differently about whether it was offensive or not and so have felt the need to justify their comments almost. As it is quite a directive statement.
> 
> I had the same reaction, i posted about being irritated by door knockers a few weeks back - didnt feel it was disrespectful or offensive but felt the need to justify my position; and from that debate arises and issues are taken at tangents.
> 
> I dont see there is anything wrong with a thread evolving


*Whilst i agree with certain threads evolving and appreciate they do this is one that shouldn't have imo.
Now if it was only me that could see how the thread could offend then why were they removed? *


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Now is this realy that hard to answer?
> I'm not of the faith but i found posts offensive towards the JW's.And i wasn't alone.*


fine seeing as no one else has or will:

I will answer the question, which being an weathered member of this forum you should know already,... NO!!!!


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Whilst i agree with certain threads evolving and appreciate they do this is one that shouldn't have imo.
> Now if it was only me that could see how the thread could offend then why were they removed? *


i didn't say they wernt i said i didn't see them


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## Pawsitive (Mar 24, 2011)

I was in a relationship with a JW and in my opinion, there are two sides.

I agree that people should be polite when people knock on the door HOWEVER they do go out with the intention of spreading the word (as their religion asks them to do) and I'm afraid that means that people's privacy is invaded by something they have neither requested nor have any interest in.

I don't think people have been horribly disparaging about JW's - although I must have missed the offending posts too. The JW's I know though, do have a sense of humour and they are aware that not everyone appreciates door knockers even if it's something they feel they have to do. (I'm using the door knock comments that I did see as an example)

As for going off on tangents with transfusion etc, the JW's I have met have all been incredibly welcoming and pleased whenever anyone questions something about the faith. That's why they have frequent bible study and mentors who help people becoming JW etc. Therefore, I think a healthy, polite discussion about aspects of the faith is not bad or a 'p1ss take' at all.


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> Now if it was only me that could see how the thread could offend then why were they removed? *


Not too sure how much of the other thread you saw Janice, but it was removed as it went truely off tangent, and started being quite abusive. 
End of discussion about other thread.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Savahl said:


> i didn't say they wernt i said i didn't see them


*lol Sorry but i think we are getting our wires crossed.*


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

In answer to the original thread title.... since we lived in a democracy with the right to freedom of speech.
After all to err is human...to forgive divine!


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

bird said:


> Not too sure how much of the other thread you saw Janice, but it was removed as it went truely off tangent, and started being quite abusive.
> End of discussion about other thread.


didn't see it! any chance of putting it back so we can all have a gander


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> didn't see it! any chance of putting it back so we can all have a gander


mods have already said no DT.......im going to sulk in a corner :lol:


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

owieprone said:


> fine seeing as no one else has or will:
> 
> I will answer the question, which being an weathered member of this forum you should know already,... NO!!!!


I did  Page 3 i think  and again about 2 more times


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> I did  Page 3 i think  and again about 2 more times


Must have missed that in all the drivel (including my usual epic posts)

original question answered.. we can all shut up now.


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

Originally Posted by JANICE199 
I personaly find it very offensive that twice in the last couple of weeks the Jehovah's Witnesses religion has had the p*ss taken out of it on this forum.I thought our members could rise about that sort of crap.


JANICE199 said:


> *Now is this realy that hard to answer?
> I'm not of the faith but i found posts offensive towards the JW's.And i wasn't alone.*


There is NO question tovreply to - it is not a question! IT was a statement of ones personal views!


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> I did  Page 3 i think  and again about 2 more times


It always happens on page 3 !!!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Originally Posted by JANICE199
> I personaly find it very offensive that twice in the last couple of weeks the Jehovah's Witnesses religion has had the p*ss taken out of it on this forum.I thought our members could rise about that sort of crap.
> 
> There is NO question tovreply to - it is not a question! IT was a statement of ones personal views!


*Look at the title of the thread,its a question.*


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Look at the title of the thread,its a question.*


Yes , I know,followed up with a statement,which folk are bound to challenge!
Seriously,

If I put a post up saying words to the effect of What do you think to our current government?

And then followed up with
I personally think they are doing a great job and cannot unstand people being so critical of them.

Then I am sure there would be plenty of folk eager to air their views! That IS what happens on forums! Always has- always will!


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## NoSpecialFeaturesHere (Nov 23, 2008)

You know... the arguing on this thread - the misunderstandings, nobody really properly trying to understand each other: Exactly why I'm not a fan of religion. It always spirals, always divides, always causes conflict even though it's supposed to be all about peace and love and faith. People only believe what they want to believe, and you can respect people's beliefs all you like but it doesn't mean you'll get the same in return.

I don't get people wanting to persuade others to believe what they believe religion-wise, but if I'd been born into a family of Jehova's Witnesses, as hard as it is for me to imagine, I'd probably have been one too... and maybe any of you guys would if you had been also, as that's what we'd have been raised to believe was right. We'd all be going around doorsteps.  (Well, I wouldn't as I'm people-phobic. But you know what I mean.) As it is, I was raised being allowed to make my own decisions, and I personally have a sore feeling about religion in general due to its tendency to turn people against each other. 

Also just want to add, to the OP, I do understand your frustration if you think people have made hurtful remarks. I feel the same way whenever people make fun of people who have narcolepsy. They wouldn't make fun of people with diabetes or epilepsy, so why is it okay to make fun of narcolepsy? It's not pigging funny to the person who has it, far frigging from it, but people only understand that if they live with it. So, yeah, sorry you've been frustrated about this. Best thing to do is just relax about it, though. Sometimes people say things without really meaning to hurt anybody's feelings, it's just unfortunate that it's taken hard by others not on their wavelength, so to speak.

love love, people.


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## NoSpecialFeaturesHere (Nov 23, 2008)

By the way, I wasn't going to reply but I just had to!! Took me blumming ages to get through all those posts. LOL. xxx


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

Religion causes some of the world's problems and sometimes I think it was made by humans just to argue and fight over. The world might be a little better place without religion (although I do like some of the cultural aspects of it). Look at the problems in the middle east (with the Muslims and Jewish people) and the 60 years of fighting in Israel.

Religion is a byproduct of human evolution and psychology. People fearing their own mortality decided they needed to invent an afterlife to make themselves feel better. Humans tend to fear death and like being with groups that think alike. It would be a good evolutionary trait to pass down the generations (for survival) to believe in some sort of afterlife when death is possible at any moment and is inevitable. In modern society it can do harm.

I am doubtful any sort of gods, deities, demons, ghosts, afterlife, etc. exist but I do have to accept I could never completely rule them out (it is impossible to completely rule out a negative). I hope my post doesn't cause any offense.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

blade100 said:


> Thank you Janice. many people seem to forget just how many people go through an op successfully withouthaving to have blood but they never seem to print that in the paper. The only things u do hear are when things go wrong! Or should I say when thedoctors don't know how to use bloodless machines properly!!


Well my Mother turned down two blood transfusions during child birth, and one a few years ago, in her 80's, for an operation for bowel cancer. The last time the surgeons put a lot of pressure on us as a family to over ride her wishes. My Brother, an elder, and the only other member of the family who is a JW, is on the liason commitee and got all the wheels in motion for support, including surgeons who believe bloodless surgery is better, to care for her. I am not a witness now, I left at age 15, as I could not agree with many things and still don't. But when that surgeon asked me and my sisters to talk her round nothing would make us. I respect her for her strength of conviction. I don't agree but I sure as hell respect her bottle!!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

northnsouth said:


> Well my Mother turned down two blood transfusions during child birth, and one a few years ago, in her 80's, for an operation for bowel cancer. The last time the surgeons put a lot of pressure on us as a family to over ride her wishes. My Brother, an elder, and the only other member of the family who is a JW, is on the liason commitee and got all the wheels in motion for support, including surgeons who believe bloodless surgery is better, to care for her. I am not a witness now, I left at age 15, as I could not agree with many things and still don't. But when that surgeon asked me and my sisters to talk her round nothing would make us. I respect her for her strength of conviction. I don't agree but I sure as hell respect her bottle!!


shes an adult thats her decision its like myself i have strong views on vivisection ive already turned down a procedure which is new and currently unlicensed because they have been experimenting on monkeys, i'd like to think i could even turn down medication if my life depended on it(but who knows till im faced with it)......BUT if my children ever needed anything its my instinct as a mother to want them to have whatever was necessary to give them the best chance! so its fair enough if folk want to take chances with their own lives thats their choice....but to risk their kids well....:frown2:


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

NoSpecialFeaturesHere said:


> if I'd been born into a family of Jehova's Witnesses, as hard as it is for me to imagine, I'd probably have been one too... and maybe any of you guys would if you had been also, as that's what we'd have been raised to believe was right. We'd all be going around doorsteps.


This is what I always think. If someone said to me 'I've studied all the religions and have decided this is the one I want to follow', I would have respect for that. But it seems to me that people just follow the religion of their parents or the country they were born/ live in.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

luvmydogs said:


> This is what I always think. If someone said to me 'I've studied all the religions and have decided this is the one I want to follow', I would have respect for that. But it seems to me that people just follow the religion of their parents or the country they were born/ live in.


exactly! if i was born in Pakistan chances are i'd be a muslim, and as one believe that was the correct religeon to worship...or if my parents were brought me up as a JW then this it what i'd believe in and think this was the only true religeon.....imo its kind of being brainwashed


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> This is what I always think. If someone said to me 'I've studied all the religions and have decided this is the one I want to follow', I would have respect for that. But it seems to me that people just follow the religion of their parents or the country they were born/ live in.


Yes i agree, ime Cof E because i was christened that, not my choice at all. I also think life experiences change the way we think and certainly makes me question, "is there a god" because if there is he's not a very nice person, and i think we are all enitled to our opinions.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> religeon....imo its kind of being brainwashed


And the truth shall set you free!

Religion isn't about faith. It's about power and it's about fear.

This God is telling the people how powerful he is and how he will punish all those who do not obey him.

Abraham was put to the test by this God and it had nothing to do with faith but obedience.

This God told Abraham 'You know how powerful I am, I can make you do anything I want; even kill your son (Isaac) because I am powerful and you are nothing' 
God did not respect life. He denied it.

Whereas his apparent son, Jesus, was a life affirmer and in the eyes of many the true anti-christ because Jesus contradicted everything his father believed in and had ordained.

He brought the dead back to life, he made the lame walk and the blind see.

Religion is looking for the consolation of an afterlife because we are often disillusioned and sorely disappointed in this, but moreover, because we fear death.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Some of you make me laugh.Not only can you not stick to the question but you make assumptions about things you obviously know nothing about.*


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

OK - the question is *Since when has it be ok for members to take the p*ss out of someones religion?* - since when? Its a bit of a strange question. I guess my answer is - I don't know  but I suppose answers which actually answer that question would kinda make the thread a bit short.....


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> shes an adult thats her decision its like myself i have strong views on vivisection ive already turned down a procedure which is new and currently unlicensed because they have been experimenting on monkeys, i'd like to think i could even turn down medication if my life depended on it(but who knows till im faced with it)......BUT if my children ever needed anything its my instinct as a mother to want them to have whatever was necessary to give them the best chance! so its fair enough if folk want to take chances with their own lives thats their choice....but to risk their kids well....:frown2:


Agreed, your instinct as a mother should overide any religious beliefs!

There was a big article in our local paper about a woman who during childbirth needed a blood transfusion, she refused on the grounds of her religion, which fair enough that's her decision etc, but she made that decision knowing her child would grow up without her  I believe it's selfish to put your religious beliefs before your own child. And selfish to put the doctors who's jobs it is to preserve life in that position, god knows how they felt watching her die


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## Guest (May 28, 2011)

Sorry janice, i know its off topic but i want to say something re:brainwashed.

Children dont really have "faith" imo. They have what they are told, and believe this to be true. You do not have a faith and become religious until you are a little older and make a choice - at some point in all our lives we have looked at what we have been told and assess whether we believe this is true for us.

I was brought up a christian, went to church, c of e school. As was my brother. Neither of us are religious. I have alot of friends who are "born again"; in that they choose their religion later in life, as a teenager maybe, because they have found that faith to be true to them - because we are all free enough to make that choice. And JWs are no different - People convert as adults and choose it as their life, because we do live in a free society and we all grow up and come to points in our lives where we assess what we are told. 

I do think often this "choice" is down to circumstances in life and a requirement for certain answers to make sense of things. But its their choice to do so, no one has forced that on them. I think its rather condecending to assume all people with faith are weak minded and open to religious brainwashing. Many of them are perfectly intellegent and capable of logical thought and decision.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> exactly! if i was born in Pakistan chances are i'd be a muslim, and as one believe that was the correct religeon to worship...or if my parents were brought me up as a JW then this it what i'd believe in and think this was the only true religeon.....imo its kind of *being brainwashed*


A good choice or phrase IMHO.

At school there was a 7th Day adventist child and me a Jehovahs Witness kid . We were oddities from families with extreme beliefs. We were drawn to each other. We questioned argued and questioned everything some more. She stuck to her religion. I left mine.
Unless you have been part of the religion it is hard to explain. You can be Christened a Cof E and never go to church again until your Wedding or your funeral but still be a Cof E. To be a JW you have to live your life as one. Everything you do and say is considered to be part of being a JW. You can not say you are a JW and never go to meetings or go on the ministry. An inactive member can not get married in a KH for example.

This is so off topic from the original posts but it has turned into a really interesting discussion..


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Some of you make assumptions about things you obviously know nothing about.*


And what are you implying Janice; that you know more?:confused5:

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten some of us?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Zaros said:


> And what are you implying Janice; that you know more?:confused5:
> 
> Perhaps you'd like to enlighten some of us?


*Why would i want to keep repeating myself? It seems i do know a lot more than most that have posted on this thread.If people don't understand the religion in the first place how can they mock it?*


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Zaros said:


> And the truth shall set you free!
> 
> Religion isn't about faith. It's about power and it's about fear.
> 
> ...


Strangley this is the biggest part of my reasoning/argumnet for walking away from the religion I was born into.
I am a good person because I want to be not because I am scared not to be...


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Why would i want to keep repeating myself?*


Well I for one have yet to discover anything profound in your submissions.

It is also evident that for you to have generated this thread you deliberately overlooked hard facts. These facts are still being ignored!

So the real question should have been; 'Is it ok to hardsell bullsh1t to those who have no belief or interest in that bullsh1t?'

The man was a nuisance but that's okay because this God apparently sent him.:frown2:


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

i think it has already bn said but , i dont think it is right to pick on anyones religeous beliefes regardles to what they are just like it isnt right over gender and nationality but it happens its one of those things it would seem, sometimes people dont even realise there doing it so its not always meant to be mean , 
also things dont always apear as we mean it when its on here and people take the tone they think was meant whitch isnt always correct. 
religeon is one thing that always have and always will cause conflict what with there being so many of them and some of them are a bit extreme. 
i have to admit i have my kids baptised but for all the wrong reasons so in thery i have taken the mick acording to my hubby, my kids were baptised to ensure there places in what is considered the best school here , i dont force religeon on them they will decide in there own time but i can rest asured nowing they will have the best education i can give them. soz going of topic a bit


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Zaros said:


> Well I for one have yet to discover anything profound in your submissions.
> 
> It is also evident that for you to have generated this thread you deliberately overlooked hard facts. These facts are still being ignored!
> 
> ...


*With respect i didn't over look anything.*


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Some of you make me laugh.Not only can you not stick to the question but you make assumptions about things you obviously know nothing about.*


but you put a 'like' on Northsouths post which wasnt 'sticking to the question'.....and i was only replying to it!

how on earth does anyone 'know' there is even a God? is it because a book written by humans says so? lol


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> but you put a 'like' on Northsouths post which wasnt 'sticking to the question'.....and i was only replying to it!
> 
> how on earth does anyone 'know' there is even a God? is it because a book written by humans says so? lol


Sorry  I have said I had wandered off topic. But I am finding the thread interesting still.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

northnsouth said:


> Sorry  I have said I had wandered off topic. But I am finding the interesting still.


aw no need to apologise to me most threads do go off topic it dosent bother me


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

northnsouth said:


> Well my Mother turned down two blood transfusions during child birth, and one a few years ago, in her 80's, for an operation for bowel cancer. The last time the surgeons put a lot of pressure on us as a family to over ride her wishes. My Brother, an elder, and the only other member of the family who is a JW, is on the liason commitee and got all the wheels in motion for support, including surgeons who believe bloodless surgery is better, to care for her. I am not a witness now, I left at age 15, as I could not agree with many things and still don't. But when that surgeon asked me and my sisters to talk her round nothing would make us. I respect her for her strength of conviction. I don't agree but I sure as hell respect her bottle!!





noushka05 said:


> but you put a 'like' on Northsouths post which wasnt 'sticking to the question'.....and i was only replying to it!
> 
> how on earth does anyone 'know' there is even a God? is it because a book written by humans says so? lol


*The reason i "liked" is highlighted.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I dont think the original question could have been answered without justifying the reply, i would answer yes, not take the p*** which i dont think i have, but i dont think anyone has but have answered why they think its a strange and selfish religion.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> how on earth does anyone 'know' there is even a God? is it because a book written by humans says so? lol


FAITH. I always feel a bit left out when people tell me they have this God given faith. Why didn't God give me any of that? lol


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> how on earth does anyone 'know' there is even a God? is it because a book written by humans says so? lol


And of course, it's a book made up of lots of different accounts, some of which differ from each other, and are written in different time periods. And then you get a group of people who sit down and decide which books should be included to make up The Book, and leave out those pesky accounts that are too difficult to explain, such as Daniel and the Dragon, which is excluded from many versions


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## Guest (May 28, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> And of course, it's a book made up of lots of different accounts, some of which differ from each other, and are written in different time periods. And then you get a group of people who sit down and decide which books should be included to make up The Book, and leave out those pesky accounts that are too difficult to explain, such as Daniel and the Dragon, which is excluded from many versions


Well there ARE fairies at the bottom of my garden! I know its true because my grandaughter told me!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *The reason i "liked" is highlighted.*


ahh right lol



luvmydogs said:


> FAITH. I always feel a bit left out when people tell me they have this God given faith. Why didn't God give me any of that? lol


when i was young i believed in God but the more ive looked into it the more i realise i was just being a sheep



Sleeping_Lion said:


> And of course, it's a book made up of lots of different accounts, some of which differ from each other, and are written in different time periods. And then you get a group of people who sit down and decide which books should be included to make up The Book, and leave out those pesky accounts that are too difficult to explain, such as Daniel and the Dragon, which is excluded from many versions


well i suppose in the day when it was written they believed dragons were real.....and now some of us would beg to differ! lol.... but maybe they were meaning komodo dragons


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> Well i suppose in the day when it was written they believed dragons were real.....and now some of us would beg to differ! lol.... but maybe they were meaning komodo dragons


Doubtful if the desert dwellers in the Middle East even knew of the existence of great oceans and Indonesia ...let alone the island of Komodo.


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## bullet (Jan 25, 2009)

poohdog said:


> Doubtful if the desert dwellers in the Middle East even knew of the existence of great oceans and Indonesia ...let alone the island of Komodo.


My gran's got one of those, Oh! hang on, sorry, thats kamode


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I'm not a religious person, spiritual maybe, but I have nothing to do with any formalised religious system nor ever have done. I wasn't even christened as a baby. 

Once upon a time I would have been a bit rude and contemptuous towards the religious; probably just the arrogance of a youth! I still don't believe in god but don't feel any animosity towards those that do. I have a very dear friend who is heavily involved in the church and even though I believe in nothing that she does I would never dream of being rude to her about it and I certainly would never go out of my way to do so. 

It's the same with anything that is meaningful and important in someone's life- you wouldn't be insulting about that because it's mean spirited and just not very nice. It's happened to me a few times and it made me feel so low. I wouldn't want to do that anyone.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

jenniferx said:


> I'm not a religious person, spiritual maybe, but I have nothing to do with any formalised religious system nor ever have done. I wasn't even christened as a baby.
> 
> Once upon a time I would have been a bit rude and contemptuous towards the religious; probably just the arrogance of a youth! I still don't believe in god but don't feel any animosity towards those that do. I have a very dear friend who is heavily involved in the church and even though I believe in nothing that she does I would never dream of being rude to her about it and I certainly would never go out of my way to do so.
> 
> It's the same with anything that is meaningful and important in someone's life- you wouldn't be insulting about that because it's mean spirited and just not very nice. It's happened to me a few times and it made me feel so low. I wouldn't want to do that anyone.


im never rude to anyone either i normally keep my thoughts on the subject to myself...my Mum dosent practice a religion but she believes in God and i know she finds comfort in that having lost loved ones and being ill herself, i'd never even try to push my views onto her infact im glad she takes some comfort from it....so im never rude to anyone but i dont really want anyone pushing their religion onto me.


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

We've had the same JWs come to our door for years, and they have always been lovely. I always spend a little time talking to them and when I haven't had time they have always accepted that I am in a rush. They are certainly more tolerant to other religions than the Protestant and Christian base around this area - I'm not going to accept a religion who believes I am the spawn of satan (as I've been told by the Christian priest who forced us to listen to his sermons at school) just because I have red hair. Being forced to listen to the various sermons of christian priests and their children (who I was unfortunately in the same class as) at school it was very apparent that they did not care for anyone else's beliefs or ethics when it came to religion unless they practised the same religion as the preacher. If you look at it objectively, JW's knocking on your door is actually a lot less intrusive than the Christian or Catholic religion - does anyone remember that Saint's days (Andrew, Patrick etc) are actually Catholic in origin, or that Christmas and Easter are Christian holidays? We claim to be tolerant of other religions as long as it isn't being forced down our throats yet expect the whole nation to follow these holidays (even if their meaning has been somewhat lost.) My school was supposedly non-denominational - oh, but what - I must be confused. We practised Christian holidays, were made to attendance a morning prayer everyday, had to go to holiday church sessions, and yet - hold on - aren't we in a non-denominational school? The school always maintained they were but not a single Rabbi, Catholic priest, Muslim faith leader (sorry, I don't mean to be offensive but I genuinely can't remember their title!,) buddhist, Harry Krishna, Wiccan etc was ever allowed near the school. What people should be concentrating on is tolerance to others, regardless of religion. We can hardly do so when we are forcing people to abide by only Christian holidays and make attending church part of the school curriculum. I might be the minority on here, but I would rather spend a little time speaking to a JW who knocks on my door, than be forced to listen to a Christian priest talk about how their religion is the only way and have Christian beliefs forced upon everyone in the nation in their own home just because the majority of people may happen to follow that religion.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

zany_toon said:


> We've had the same JWs come to our door for years, and they have always been lovely. I always spend a little time talking to them and when I haven't had time they have always accepted that I am in a rush. They are certainly more tolerant to other religions than the Protestant and Christian base around this area - I'm not going to accept a religion who believes I am the spawn of satan (as I've been told by the Christian priest who forced us to listen to his sermons at school) just because I have red hair. Being forced to listen to the various sermons of christian priests and their children (who I was unfortunately in the same class as) at school it was very apparent that they did not care for anyone else's beliefs or ethics when it came to religion unless they practised the same religion as the preacher. If you look at it objectively, JW's knocking on your door is actually a lot less intrusive than the Christian or Catholic religion - does anyone remember that Saint's days (Andrew, Patrick etc) are actually Catholic in origin, or that Christmas and Easter are Christian holidays? We claim to be tolerant of other religions as long as it isn't being forced down our throats yet expect the whole nation to follow these holidays (even if their meaning has been somewhat lost.) My school was supposedly non-denominational - oh, but what - I must be confused. We practised Christian holidays, were made to attendance a morning prayer everyday, had to go to holiday church sessions, and yet - hold on - aren't we in a non-denominational school? The school always maintained they were but not a single Rabbi, Catholic priest, Muslim faith leader (sorry, I don't mean to be offensive but I genuinely can't remember their title!,) buddhist, Harry Krishna, Wiccan etc was ever allowed near the school. What people should be concentrating on is tolerance to others, regardless of religion. We can hardly do so when we are forcing people to abide by only Christian holidays and make attending church part of the school curriculum. I might be the minority on here, but I would rather spend a little time speaking to a JW who knocks on my door, than be forced to listen to a Christian priest talk about how their religion is the only way and have Christian beliefs forced upon everyone in the nation in their own home just because the majority of people may happen to follow that religion.


but unfortunately not all JW's are as lovely as the ones who you have had come to your door as has been proved on this thread....theres good and bad even amongst those who preach im afraid.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> but unfortunately not all JW's are as lovely as the ones who you have had come to your door as has been proved on this thread....theres good and bad even amongst those who preach im afraid.


*And not all people on this thread have shown respect.But for me its been interesting just to see how disrectful people are.Some have answerd the question i asked and without even realising it.
And they preach to people about their animals?:thumbdown:*


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## Guest (May 28, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> but unfortunately not all JW's are as lovely as the ones who you have had come to your door as has been proved on this thread....theres good and bad even amongst those who preach im afraid.


T'is the same sadly is all areas of life Noush! My parents taught me respect and manners, and initially I use them! But not everyone is the same! You only have to watch shows like the Jeremy Kyle show to she just how some families conduct themselves! Can you imagine some of those people being polite to anyone?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *And not all people on this thread have shown respect.But for me its been interesting just to see how disrectful people are.Some have answerd the question i asked and without even realising it.
> And they preach to people about their animals?:thumbdown:*


well i think its been an interesting debate tbh...the majority of folk have just given their views and their experiences ....perhaps the only disrespectful thing i did notice on the thread mind was when folk were practically accused of lying about their experiences lol

and god i hate it when they preach to peeps about their animals aswell:cornut:


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

I must admit I find it hard to see where on this thread anyone has been disrespectful - just airing their own views and experiences - some of which have been positive and some have been negative. Which is the nature of life. 

My Mother had a not very nice experience and when one shared it, the response from some was that she was making it up - now that was disrespectful and taking the pee IMO.

I have seen many theads containing quite sensitive topics ie race and members have been quite derogotary and certainly not inclusive.

I have always been taught to respect other people and their views - even if perhaps one does not agree with it and that should work both ways and not when it suits you:cornut:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

gorgeous said:


> I must admit I find it hard to see where on this thread anyone has been disrespectful - just airing their own views and experiences - some of which have been positive and some have been negative. Which is the nature of life.
> 
> My Mother had a not very nice experience and when one shared it, the response from some was that she was making it up - now that was disrespectful and taking the pee IMO.
> 
> ...


*This thread has shown people do not respect other people's views.If they had respect they would show it.
But i guess you need to know the subject first.*


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *And not all people on this thread have shown respect.But for me its been interesting just to see how disrectful people are.Some have answerd the question i asked and without even realising it.
> And they preach to people about their animals?:thumbdown:*


I think I must have missed something........??


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *This thread has shown people do not respect other people's views.If they had respect they would show it.
> But i guess you need to know the subject first.*


I agree and thise that have chosen to take the "hump" have simply shown their true colours 

And ultimately what people don't ... or won't try to understand they fear :cornut:

But that's life and most of the problems on this board are basically down to people's ignorance :frown2:


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## Guest (May 28, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> I agree and thise that have chosen to take the "hump" have simply shown their true colours
> 
> And ultimately what people don't ... or won't try to understand they fear :cornut:
> 
> But that's life and most of the problems on this board are basically down to people's ignorance :frown2:


I haven't seen anyone take the hump Amethyst
Neither have I seen any true colours shining through! 
All I have seen is people stating their views, some more firmly then others There may have been a few insults hurled - but we are all over the age of consent and capable of deciding whether to take it on the chin and ignore them or in some cases to hurl them back!


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I think some people like to take offense to posts merely because they disagree with them.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

People have to remember religion is a hot topic with many different opinions and one could possibly even find some of those opinions to be offensive. It is the nature of bringing up religion as a topic.


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## Guest (May 28, 2011)

DogLover1981 said:


> People have to remember religion is a hot topic with many different opinions and one could possibly even find some of those opinions to be offensive. It is the nature of bringing up religion as a topic.


There will always be certain topics that raise more interest then most.! The amount of replies to this thread demonstrates that, I am hardly surpised that peoples views on this particular subject are so wide apart! It would have been a very boring thread had we all have agreed!



DogLover1981 said:


> I think some people like to take offense to posts merely because they disagree with them.


I think you could be closer to the truth there then you know!


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I agree and thise that have chosen to take the "hump" have simply shown their true colours
> 
> And ultimately what people don't ... or won't try to understand they fear :cornut:
> 
> *But that's life and most of the problems on this board are basically down to people's ignorance :frown2:*




Or people stoking embers til they flame then blowing on them


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Rats! I seem to have arrived on the tail end of a thread I would have enjoyed!

Liz


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> I agree and thise that have chosen to take the "hump" have simply shown their true colours
> 
> And ultimately what people don't ... or won't try to understand they fear :cornut:
> 
> But that's life and most of the problems on this board are basically down to people's ignorance :frown2:


lol from where im sat the only ones who've taken the hump are those who cant except other folks opinions and wont accept other peoples experiences lol


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

lizward said:


> Rats! I seem to have arrived on the tail end of a thread I would have enjoyed!


Thank God for that!  :lol:


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## Guest (May 28, 2011)

lizward said:


> Rats! I seem to have arrived on the tail end of a thread I would have enjoyed!
> 
> Liz


Dunno about that Liz The thread has quelled several times - but seems to keep rising from the dead!


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> lol from where im sat the only ones who've taken the hump are those who cant except other folks opinions and wont accept other peoples experiences lol


I'm with you on that.

As they say you can't argue with a closed mind.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Thing is i don't think any right minded person can agree with "religion" in it's entirety because so many atrocities have been commited in it's name.

For example i have every respect for peoples right to a religion but i have zero respect for anyone that does harm in the name of religion (eg strapping bombs to themselves or blowing up shopping centres or crusading across the world) 

Given that i think it is perfectly reasonable for people to respect peoples right to a religion but that doesn't mean you have to respect all of the practices within that religion  That isn't taking the P or being disrespectful, it's about having a free mind and a personal code of morality and ethics.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Thing is i don't think any right minded person can agree with "religion" in it's entirety because so many atrocities have been commited in it's name.
> 
> For example i have every respect for peoples right to a religion but i have zero respect for anyone that does harm in the name of religion (eg strapping bombs to themselves or blowing up shopping centres or crusading across the world)
> 
> Given that i think it is perfectly reasonable for people to respect peoples right to a religion but that doesn't mean you have to respect all of the practices within that religion  That isn't taking the P or being disrespectful, it's about having a free mind and a personal code of morality and ethics.


Exactly have to agree, i wouldnt like to think that anything i have put on this thread has be read as taking the p*** or offensive we have to understand we all have different religions, views and opinions. I will stand by what i have said and cant understand why anyone would put a god before a child.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*:lol::lol: omg and i was called self-righteous.Some people have set themselves up so high they can't see the wood for the trees.:frown2::lol::lol:*


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

To continue my post from yesterday...

Imagine one of the earliest humans living in Africa 200,000 years ago. No concept of modern science exists. He has no technology other than stone and fire. Lions, hyenas, etc. that want to eat him and his family. Any possible disease and bacteria could possibly kill him and his family (without modern medicine). Woman regularly die during childbirth. Children regularly die and he could die anytime. Would a human be more likely to have the will to survive (and have children) and cope with all that in good mental health if he believed his friends and family went to a better place and someday he will too? This I think is one of the many reasons religion exists and humans may have evolved the tendency towards being religious.

Some of this isn't so far back in history either. It was very common in the 1800s for children to die.

Anyways, I find this to be an interesting topic.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *:lol::lol: omg and i was called self-righteous.Some people have set themselves up so high they can't see the wood for the trees.:frown2::lol::lol:*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

poohdog said:


>


*lmfao Thankyou for showing just how ignorant some of you can be.Just proved my point AGAIN.:thumbup::lol::lol:*


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

Talking about Jehovah's Witness. People should be allowed to have whatever opinion they want as long they respect others. I may or may not care for JW beliefs or religion but I wouldn't direct rude or nasty comments at someone who practices that faith while they can hear me. There is also a huge difference between not liking some parts of a particular faith and wishing the followers of it harm.

I find it amusing listening to people from various sects of Christianity argue over who is a true christian. I have found papers from a church in my mail about how certain religions are responsible for delaying the rapture. People from JW have left papers at my door. One that I don't know if was from JW or not was rather nasty towards followers of other religions. I've found a pamphlet once that was about how Catholics are not true Christians and how it is a fake religion made by Satan. That is pretty silly if you ask me. lol

Keep in mind I'm in the states. I don't know how it is in the UK.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

That lil smilieman that is on his back laughing gets some use doesnt he :lol: :lol:


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I have no problem with JWs but I wish they would stop knocking my BL**by door. :mad5:


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

poohdog said:


>


Sorry Ive totally lost track of this thread but that pic made me lmao literally :lol::ciappa::lol:


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> I have no problem with JWs but I wish they would stop knocking my BL**by door. :mad5:


you can request they put you on there no call list x


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

poohdog said:


>


Too funny! lol


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> I have no problem with JWs but I wish they would stop knocking my BL**by door. :mad5:


I had one last week when I struggling with shopping/kids/dogs follow me from my car to my house and back again over and over. I said I was really busy but they still wouldnt have it.

IMO believe what you like. Whatever make you happy, whatever gets you through your day BUT dont push it on other people. Dont be knocking on my door telling me sh*t. If I wanna know something I will find out I dont need no one knocking telling me anything.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

shells said:


> you can request they put you on there no call list x


This is something ive done a few times, it makes no difference they still come knocking


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

I Don't discriminate, I don't like anyone knocking on my door be it cold callers, or JW's. Easy problem to solve, I just don't answer. 

But working 10 hours a day can have it benefits, and anyone who knocks my door on a Sunday deserves to be ignored


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

ahh right out ofideas then soz hun. here they stick to there list , saying that they arent/werent alowed to aproch me pretty sad really as i thoughed i had made some good mates with them. oh well lol


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

shells said:


> you can request they put you on there no call list x


Tried that, it does not work.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

DogLover1981 said:


> I find it amusing listening to people from various sects of Christianity argue over who is a true christian. I have found papers from a church in my mail about how certain religions are responsible for delaying the rapture. People from JW have left papers at my door. One that I don't know if was from JW or not was rather nasty towards followers of other religions. I've found a pamphlet once that was about how Catholics are not true Christians and how it is a fake religion made by Satan. That is pretty silly if you ask me. lol
> 
> Keep in mind I'm in the states. I don't know how it is in the UK.


Very different. We don't have the huge percentage of church attendance you have, many churches in the mainstream denominations are very small and are almost forced to work together. Biblical knowledge is very poor indeed even in the mainstream churches and I doubt if you would find 1% of the population here who had the first idea of what the raputre is (well, you wouldn't have done if Camping had kept his big mought shut)

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

shells said:


> ahh right out ofideas then soz hun. here they stick to there list , saying that they arent/werent alowed to aproch me pretty sad really as i thoughed i had made some good mates with them. oh well lol


That sounds as if the decision has been made by their elders, are you an ex JW perhaps?

Liz


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

lizward said:


> That sounds as if the decision has been made by their elders, are you an ex JW perhaps?
> 
> Liz


yup that i am was catholic due to parents then as a young adult was baptised a jw , then come away from them due to questioning things and because i decided that i didnt follow all there views on things (whent through a bad patch) i come away as felt like a hipocript but then there not alowed to even say hi to you. assaid was sad as all my freinds were jw n they werent talking to me  on the plus side they miss my house when in our street


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> This is something ive done a few times, it makes no difference they still come knocking


Hope you've got photographic evidence, otherwise you may be accused of stretching the truth 



shells said:


> yup that i am was catholic due to parents then as a young adult was baptised a jw , then come away from them due to questioning things and because i decided that i didnt follow all there views on things (whent through a bad patch) i come away as felt like a hipocript but then there not alowed to even say hi to you. assaid was sad as all my freinds were jw n they werent talking to me  on the plus side they miss my house when in our street


That's a shame, and shows another facet of some religions that doesn't throw a positive light on them at all.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *lmfao Thankyou for showing just how ignorant some of you can be.Just proved my point AGAIN.:thumbup::lol::lol:*


Ignorant eh? is that just me or the whole planet that doesn't agree with you?
I couldn't give a stuff about your thread..or it's subject matter.
I 'aint ignorant but I do have a sense of humour...you want to try it sometime.


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## Guest (May 28, 2011)

poohdog said:


> Ignorant eh? is that just me or the whole planet that doesn't agree with you?
> I couldn't give a stuff about your thread..or it's subject matter.
> I 'aint ignorant but I do have a sense of humour...you want to try it sometime.


Poohdog! you have just had the balls to say what is on the minds of many of us! well said! I reckon you has summed this thread and the OP up to perfection! And some are certainly at the back of the queue when humour were dished out!
DT


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

shells said:


> you can request they put you on there no call list x


It doesn't always work. There have been cases of Jehovahs being arrested for trespassing here.


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## Guest (May 28, 2011)

DogLover1981 said:


> It doesn't always work. There have been cases of Jehovahs being arrested for trespassing here.


Yay! way to go


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

shells said:


> yup that i am was catholic due to parents then as a young adult was baptised a jw , then come away from them due to questioning things and because i decided that i didnt follow all there views on things (whent through a bad patch) i come away as felt like a hipocript but then there not alowed to even say hi to you. assaid was sad as all my freinds were jw n they werent talking to me  on the plus side they miss my house when in our street


O you're being shunned then. I am sure it must hurt but that is what they do to everyone who leaves.

Liz


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Ya see, what I don't get with some religions is that you've got to have faith, and surely, to have faith, you *should* have free will, otherwise it is, as others have pointed out, merely brainwashing. I'm sure it goes on to a greater or lesser extent with many religions, and people who aren't as confident get sucked in, I've seen it happen just with the protestant faith. Questioning isn't encouraged in most of them, as it appears you're questioning the underlying beliefs, but it's always been my view that questioning is healthy.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

It depends what you mean by questioning. Certainly every minister I know would be delighted to be asked questions, it's a vast improvement on people not listening to a word you say! When I preach, I am delighted to have feedback in any form including questions.

Liz


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## Guest (May 29, 2011)

lizward said:


> It depends what you mean by questioning. Certainly every minister I know would be delighted to be asked questions, it's a vast improvement on people not listening to a word you say! When I preach, I am delighted to have feedback in any form including questions.
> 
> Liz


It certainly seems harsh to be discommunicated simply for being inquisitive within the group - im sure questions are normally welcomed, does this also include questions which fundementally argue or show disagreement with teachings?

You made a statement a few posts back which indicated that mainstream chirstian denominations have low biblical knowledge, but surely it is more of a case of contextual interpretations of the bible? All religious scriptures are open to interpretation in different ways, which is why we get so many different denominations, so it would seem harsh to discommunicate a member for possibly interpreting scripture differently, or questioning some fundementals.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

lizward said:


> It depends what you mean by questioning. Certainly every minister I know would be delighted to be asked questions, it's a vast improvement on people not listening to a word you say! When I preach, I am delighted to have feedback in any form including questions.
> 
> Liz


Ok, maybe I was a little bit sweeping, I had intended my post to indicate that there's a range of attitudes from the more open and encouraging questions, to those where any questioning is frowned upon, that'll teach me to post quickly first thing on a Sunday morning. But I have come across people who are C of E, who *think* that questioning equals a lack of belief, and impress, or try to impress that idea on others. Equally, I've come across people who love to question and debate various aspects of their religion, and aren't at all phased or take comments as a direct criticism of them and how they believe, but accept them as a critique from a completely different point of view from someone with a different set of beliefs and values.


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## Guest (May 29, 2011)

Personally i think shunning or discommunicating members for either slight waivering faith or inquisitive minds is particularly cruel 

I think one main draw to organised religion is a sense of belonging and being part of something; often resulting in their main support group being from the same church or denomination - and so to cut someone out of this removes their support system leaving them with few friends and no support system - could this result in a fear to speak your mind within the group? Leave fears and doubts unanswered to grow? Why discommunicate rather than answer those doubts, when this could result in a greater faith?


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I have a bible study with JW each week I ask lots of questions but I don't get shuned they are very happy to answer and find the answers in the bible for me and then explain to me in detail what the scripture means.

I do think some of u on here are being a little rude and there is no need for it. 
If u don't like this thread then don't read or reply. Or take the Mick.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Savahl said:


> It certainly seems harsh to be discommunicated simply for being inquisitive within the group - im sure questions are normally welcomed, does this also include questions which fundementally argue or show disagreement with teachings?


Well, the lady who is an ex JW (sorry I forget who it is) did rather more than just ask questions, she left. Fundamental disagreements (eg. in my circles, someone disputing that Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father) should be sorted out before anyone is allowed to become a member. Alas often churches are so desperate for members that people are allowed in on the nod, and that is a recipe for trouble later. To be fair I don't think the JWs allow people to join on the nod.



> You made a statement a few posts back which indicated that mainstream chirstian denominations have low biblical knowledge, but surely it is more of a case of contextual interpretations of the bible?


If only that were true! A few quick examples: two Christian ministers I know who have not read the whole of the Bible even once; an accredited female lay preacher who is so unfamiliar with the Bible that she did not even realise Paul's epistles seem on the face of it to bar women from teaching, the one thing I would expect a female lay reader to be very much aware of (and have an answer ready!); prominent members of the congregation who, when asked to read, do not know whether the book concerned is in the Old or New testament.



> All religious scriptures are open to interpretation in different ways, which is why we get so many different denominations, so it would seem harsh to discommunicate a member for possibly interpreting scripture differently, or questioning some fundementals.


If the disagreement is about fundamentals, the issue needs to be solved before the person is ever admitted to membership.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

blade100 said:


> I have a bible study with JW each week I ask lots of questions but I don't get shuned they are very happy to answer and find the answers in the bible for me and then explain to me in detail what the scripture means.


But you are not yet baptised as a JW.

Liz


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## Guest (May 29, 2011)

Another question could be, so long as you have faith in god, and love Him and have accepted him into your life, does it matter that you do not read the bible cover to cover and follows "rules" thaat have been written by human hands and been open to human manipulation which may be dictated by the time and culture within which it was written.

The faith is still there, the love and acceptance is still there, along with a solid moral compass... do the details of the scriptures matter so much? Thus removing the issues of interpretation, as the base of all denominations are much the same.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Savahl said:


> Personally i think shunning or discommunicating members for either slight waivering faith or inquisitive minds is particularly cruel
> 
> I think one main draw to organised religion is a sense of belonging and being part of something; often resulting in their main support group being from the same church or denomination - and so to cut someone out of this removes their support system leaving them with few friends and no support system - could this result in a fear to speak your mind within the group? Leave fears and doubts unanswered to grow? Why discommunicate rather than answer those doubts, when this could result in a greater faith?


*Before anyone can become a JW they would have had lots of bible study and any questions they are not sure of would have been answerd.They don't allow someone to be baptized until they are fully aware of what the faith requires.*


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

lizward said:


> Well, the lady who is an ex JW (sorry I forget who it is) did rather more than just ask questions, she left.
> 
> thats me , yes i left. I was going through a verry difficult time in my life , getting divorced,miscarrige and nearly being evicted all at once and admit i lost faith big time ended up on antidepresents was a really bad point in my life. i come away to find myself and never whent back didnt really think i belonged with them after the whole being ignored bit , i wouldnt dream of doing that to anyone at any time let alone when they have been nocked down like that . at that time in my life all my family and freinds wd giv me a wide birth due to my beliefes, so the jw were my family and freinds so when they shunned me i was left alone, not good when your in such a dark place.
> saying that i still stand by my original post that they are a lovely people who are true to there beliefes on a whole , (dont get the shunning bit but they were doing as they were told) and i respect the dedication they have


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## Guest (May 29, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Before anyone can become a JW they would have had lots of bible study and any questions they are not sure of would have been answerd.They don't allow someone to be baptized until they are fully aware of what the faith requires.*


im aware of this, but during hard times i think waivering faith and new questions are normal - what you may have been sure of at time of baptising, may not be so clear during times of difficulty...

Im non religious, so its merely my opinion and questions on the matter,

I just think that during these times of distress, so much that your faith is questioned, you are abandoned to fend for yourself rather than surrounded by the love of your friends within your faith to bring you "back to the path" as it were. Not treated like a lost cause


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Savahl said:


> im aware of this, but during hard times i think waivering faith and new questions are normal - what you may have been sure of at time of baptising, may not be so clear during times of difficulty...
> 
> Im non religious, so its merely my opinion and questions on the matter,


*I ws only trying to answer your post.*


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## Guest (May 29, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *I ws only trying to answer your post.*


I know...i was just trying to clarify my question  Its not so much about questions when baptised by questions post baptism that may arise through the hardships of life


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Savahl said:


> I know...i was just trying to clarify my question  Its not so much about questions when baptised by questions post baptism that may arise through the hardships of life


*I can only go my own experiences with the JW,and in times of troubles they were very supportive.*


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Savahl said:


> Another question could be, so long as you have faith in god, and love Him and have accepted him into your life, does it matter that you do not read the bible cover to cover and follows "rules" thaat have been written by human hands and been open to human manipulation which may be dictated by the time and culture within which it was written.
> 
> The faith is still there, the love and acceptance is still there, along with a solid moral compass... do the details of the scriptures matter so much? Thus removing the issues of interpretation, as the base of all denominations are much the same.


Yes the scriptures absolutely do matter. They are the way in which God speaks to us. Everything has to be weighed against scripture. This is of course the Evangelical position and I am indeed an Evangelical. Now that does not mean to say that there is not plenty of cultural stuff in the Bible, indeed there is, and sometimes groups differ on minor points of what is cultural and what is for all time, but all who accept the Bible as the word of God use that as their starting point.

Liz


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## Bangtidy (May 29, 2011)

WoW this has been a long thread and have enjoyed reading as a newbie


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *I can only go my own experiences with the JW,and in times of troubles they were very supportive.*


A lady I worked with was a Mormon .... alas another "faith" that get a "lot of stick" 

Her church were incredibly supportive in practical ways when she was in financial difficulty. That's what it should be about I guess


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Before anyone can become a JW they would have had lots of bible study and any questions they are not sure of would have been answerd.They don't allow someone to be baptized until they are fully aware of what the faith requires.*


Is baptism or christening catholic? Because at 4 years old I didn't know the ins and outs of the religion!


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

CharleyRogan said:


> Is baptism or christening catholic? Because at 4 years old I didn't know the ins and outs of the religion!


as a jw you only get baptised when you understand wat it is you are doing as aposed to some other religeons x


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## Bangtidy (May 29, 2011)

Just been reading it all- phew!!!!

Although a newbie was lurking prior to this so not totally unaware.

I think the thread was started because Janice was upset at people having a laugh at others religions but has become a platform for people to air their views.

I personally don't want JW's knocking at my door whether they are polite or not.

What religion people practice in their own homes is up to them but don't be forcing it on me.

Like some have said it's when 'NO' isn't listened to!! and I do feel sorry for the vulnerable people,who can't get rid of them at their door.

I wouldn't be rude, but if need be would be insistent they leave if they persisted after telling them I wasn't interested.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

blade100 said:


> I have a bible study with JW each week I ask lots of questions but I don't get shuned they are very happy to answer and find the answers in the bible for me and then *explain to me in detail what the scripture means.*
> 
> I do think some of u on here are being a little rude and there is no need for it.
> If u don't like this thread then don't read or reply. Or take the Mick.


You mean, the way they interpret it, and it does not mean they have got it right.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> You mean, the way they interpret it, and it does not mean they have got it right.


Another problem is the bible was written over a thousand years ago. The people who wrote the bible had their own motives (and political motives) for writing what is in the bible.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

CharleyRogan said:


> Is baptism or christening catholic? Because at 4 years old I didn't know the ins and outs of the religion!


The correct term is baptism, specifically paedobaptism. Paedobaptism is practised by RCs, Anglicans, Methodists, URC and no doubt others. Paedobaptism vs. Credobaptism is one of the things on which Christians disagree. Both positions can be supported from the Bible, depending on your view of the relationship between the Old and New testaments. Personally, I had both 

Liz


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

lizward said:


> The correct term is baptism, specifically paedobaptism. Paedobaptism is practised by RCs, Anglicans, Methodists, URC and no doubt others. Paedobaptism vs. Credobaptism is one of the things on which Christians disagree. Both positions can be supported from the Bible, depending on your view of the relationship between the Old and New testaments. Personally, I had both
> 
> Liz


I thought the difference was quite simple, christening is a name giving and dedication ceremony where a child is dedicated to 'X' religion, and certain people are appointed to guide them in life, and the child is marked with the cross and dedicated to a life in that religion, although they may then choose otherwise at a later date. Baptism is where a person chooses to accept a faith, and be baptised, or born again, into a religion. It depends on the specific religion, but that's how I understood the two different ceremonies. Don't even get me started on confirmation!


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

This is an OT question, but it doesn't deserve a whole thread of its own - where is Heaven exactly? Is it somewhere we just have to accept is there after death (blind faith) or does any religion have a definite place for it?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

shells said:


> as a jw you only get baptised when you understand wat it is you are doing as aposed to some other religeons x


my friend must have been about 10 when she was baptised, i really dont think a child who has been brought up in a faith knows their own mind at that age or understands anything different to what they have been taught........and as it happens as soon as she left home she left the faith, and when i see her Mum i'll ask if her grown up siblings are still JW's because i have a feeling theyre not either.


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## critter (Sep 14, 2010)

luvmydogs said:


> This is an OT question, but it doesn't deserve a whole thread of its own - where is Heaven exactly? Is it somewhere we just have to accept is there after death (blind faith) or does any religion have a definite place for it?


Hi, According to Hot Chocolate, "Heaven's in the back seat of my Cadillac". wayne.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I thought the difference was quite simple, christening is a name giving and dedication ceremony where a child is dedicated to 'X' religion, and certain people are appointed to guide them in life, and the child is marked with the cross and dedicated to a life in that religion, although they may then choose otherwise at a later date. Baptism is where a person chooses to accept a faith, and be baptised, or born again, into a religion. It depends on the specific religion, but that's how I understood the two different ceremonies. Don't even get me started on confirmation!


Christening is a colloquial term. I very much doubt if you will find any chruch using it. The term for both is baptism - baptism of infants (paedobaptism) or baptism of believers (credobaptism)

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

luvmydogs said:


> This is an OT question, but it doesn't deserve a whole thread of its own - where is Heaven exactly? Is it somewhere we just have to accept is there after death (blind faith) or does any religion have a definite place for it?


Depends on the particular religion. In mormonism you have your own planet.

Liz


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> my friend must have been about 10 when she was baptised, i really dont think a child who has been brought up in a faith knows their own mind at that age or understands anything different to what they have been taught........and as it happens as soon as she left home she left the faith, and when i see her Mum i'll ask if her grown up siblings are still JW's because i have a feeling theyre not either.


if i remember correctly , you have to do a study/class before being alowed to be baptised and one of the elders will kinda quizz you and they decide if you are ready or not, when i was a jw i have to admit a few familys had no contact with there children due to the children turning away from the faith, some come back others didnt pretty sad really (the no contact i mean)


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

critter said:


> Hi, According to Hot Chocolate, "Heaven's in the back seat of my Cadillac". wayne.


Have you got a Cadillac?

If not, then I'm going to start doubting the fabric of existence.....


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

shells said:


> if i remember correctly , you have to do a study/class before being alowed to be baptised and one of the elders will kinda quizz you and they decide if you are ready or not, when i was a jw i have to admit a few familys had no contact with there children due to the children turning away from the faith, some come back others didnt pretty sad really (the no contact i mean)


maybe so because i know my friend was always having to study even before she went to meetings because they were asked questions by the elder.

yep its very very sad when kids are shunned by their parents for making their own decisions on what they believe.


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## critter (Sep 14, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Have you got a Cadillac?
> 
> If not, then I'm going to start doubting the fabric of existence.....


Hi, No I don't personally own a Cadillac, but, I do believe that Hot Chocolate have indeed owned one!, don't doubt the fabric of existance, otherwise what else is there?. wayne. :cornut:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> maybe so because i know my friend was always having to study even before she went to meetings because they were asked questions by the elder.
> 
> yep its very very sad when kids are shunned by their parents for making their own decisions on what they believe.


*Questions at meetings are for all the congregation.As far as i'm aware JW's have their meeting at the kindom hall on a thursday and sunday and tuesdays in one of the JW's houses.*


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Questions at meetings are for all the congregation.As far as i'm aware JW's have their meeting at the kindom hall on a thursday and sunday and tuesdays in one of the JW's houses.*


i know theyre for everyone lol, but my friend and siblings were made to study so they could put their hands up to answer questions.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

lizward said:


> Christening is a colloquial term. I very much doubt if you will find any chruch using it. The term for both is baptism - baptism of infants (paedobaptism) or baptism of believers (credobaptism)
> 
> Liz


The church themselves may not use that term in their ceremony or related literature, but it is widely accepted and used by church goers, whether regular members of the congretation, or once in a blue mooners who use the church for civil ceremonies and the like.

The term to Christen *something*, originates from when the early churches were being developed, and does mean to dedicate something to God; doubt about the ethics of baptising children have existed for as long as the faith and the ceremonies involved, has been developed.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Most of the stories in the bible old and new, were written long after the invents were suppose to happened, even the stories of Jesus were written long after his death. As I've said before lovely stories but that's all they are.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> Most of the stories in the bible old and new, were written long after the invents were suppose to happened, even the stories of Jesus were written long after his death. As I've said before lovely stories but that's all they are.


Actually, many of them are a historical account, some more accurate than others and the lapse in time from events to account varies; these accounts are shared across a number of Christian based religions, except for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, who have the book of Mormon, which is exclusive to their faith. Whether you choose to believe the religion bit is up to you, so they may be stories to you, but not to everyone reading this thread


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> Most of the stories in the bible old and new, were written long after the invents were suppose to happened, even the stories of Jesus were written long after his death. As I've said before lovely stories but that's all they are.


hubby said the same thing, he said how can you trust it when the events aparently happened long before it was written, so these stories have been passed on n on (got the problem of chinese wispers were each person tells the story diffrent so who knows wat the original story was like) also it was written in a diffrent tounge so had to be translated and again apaarently things can get lost in translation. 
i personaly have read the bible from cover to cover and have no opinion on it whatsoever


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Happy Paws said:


> Most of the stories in the bible old and new, were written long after the invents were suppose to happened, even the stories of Jesus were written long after his death. As I've said before lovely stories but that's all they are.


Long after? Around 40 years for Mark's gospel. I can still remember important things that happened to me in 1971! And we have a record earlier than that in the form of an eye witness account from Luke, and the epistles of Paul, that tells us what was being taught by the apostles.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

shells said:


> hubby said the same thing, he said how can you trust it when the events aparently happened long before it was written, so these stories have been passed on n on (got the problem of chinese wispers were each person tells the story diffrent so who knows wat the original story was like)


Do you not believe John, then, when he claims that the testimony is that of an eye witness? Don't you see an eye witness in the exact number of the fish caught after the resurrection, or the remark that the grass was green during the feeding of the 5000, or in Luke's description of the journey to Rome?



> also it was written in a diffrent tounge so had to be translated and again apaarently things can get lost in translation.


Far less of an issue than you might think. Koine Greek, which is the language of the New Testament, was as commonly spoken in the Roman world of the time as English is today. We have a huge amount of agreement in the Greek sources we have and translation is not a difficult issue at all for those who have studied the language, any more than it is difficult to translate from Latin.



> i personaly have read the bible from cover to cover and have no opinion on it whatsoever


I find that very strange and suspect it is because of your experience with the JWs.

Liz


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

I find that very strange and suspect it is because of your experience with the JWs.
in all honesty i saw it as a ...how to explain, like when your in school and you have to do a book study it was like a learning aid you read it to do what you had to do, so diffrent to reading it and enjoying it because you whant to. every week at our meetings you would be given a book to read and would be expected to anser questions on it through out the meeting. this would also be the time where if u had any questions of your own you could ask someone about it. 
sorry im not verry good at wording my thoughets
and as for hubbys views he is verry pigheaded and wont even listen to otheres views as far as he is concerned his view is all that counts


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

shells said:


> in all honesty i saw it as a ...how to explain, like when your in school and you have to do a book study it was like a learning aid you read it to do what you had to do, so diffrent to reading it and enjoying it because you whant to. every week at our meetings you would be given a book to read and would be expected to anser questions on it through out the meeting. this would also be the time where if u had any questions of your own you could ask someone about it.


Yes, my husband had experience of the JWs as a child when his parents almost converted but realised in time! He said the Bible studies are more like Watchtower studies and indeed from what I have seen in Watchtower that does seem to be the case.

Liz


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## manic rose (Mar 12, 2011)

Bangtidy said:


> I personally don't want JW's knocking at my door whether they are polite or not.
> 
> What religion people practice in their own homes is up to them but don't be forcing it on me.


I dont have a problem with anyone's religion - its their own decision what they decide to believe in - but to try and force it onto other people is just wrong. it makes me really mad that JWs go knocking on peoples doors trying to spread their beliefs. do I go knocking on their doors spreading my atheism? No! so dont do it to me :mad5: when my nan still had all her marbles she would give them a right mouthful and tell them where to go (go nan! :thumbup1: ) but as she deteriorated she would invite them in because she didnt know fully what was going on. really makes me sad to think other old people will be doing the same


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## Guest (May 30, 2011)

Arn't the JW's one of the relegious groups that WRONGLY predicted the worldwasgoing to end a few years back?


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

lizward said:


> Long after? Around 40 years for Mark's gospel. I can still remember important things that happened to me in 1971! And we have a record earlier than that in the form of an eye witness account from Luke, and the epistles of Paul, that tells us what was being taught by the apostles.
> 
> Liz


I can remember the 60's very well, but how much real detail I remember I don't know, I just think I remember it all but I don't.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Arn't the JW's one of the relegious groups that WRONGLY predicted the worldwasgoing to end a few years back?


my friends Mum told me a couple of weeks ago it was ending soon...she never actually gave me a date lol


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Arn't the JW's one of the relegious groups that WRONGLY predicted the worldwasgoing to end a few years back?


1975!!! Another thing I argued against until blue in the face...:skep:

I believe they now say they never said this..


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

lizward said:


> Depends on the particular religion. In mormonism you have your own planet.


So are the mormons the only ones who know where heaven is then?


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> So are the mormons the only ones who know where heaven is then?


I know where heaven is! In the clouds! Thats what my mam told me!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Maybe we are all perfectly entitled to believe that heaven is where we consider it to be


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Maybe we are all perfectly entitled to believe that heaven is where we consider it to be


Of course you are! I just wondered if the religions actually ever cited it as a place, and where that place was.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

luvmydogs said:


> So are the mormons the only ones who know where heaven is then?


I guess the most common view these days would probably be that it is another dimension entirely, though the idea of it being a physical place somewhere in the universe is also still around in Evangelical circles. Other issues surround the end of Revelation where God makes a new heavens and a new earth and heaven comes down to earth. The idea of the redeemed inhabiting a future new and perfect earth is not entirely confined to JWs though it's not heard a lot outside their circles, but in my circles I have certainly heard it said that we should not abandon this biblical idea simply because the JWs have majored on it so much.

Liz


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

ok i could be way out here as i come away from this a long time ago. but if i remember correctly when i asked about heaen n hell in the early stages of my studys i was told death isnt final its like you have just gone to sleep and that eeryone will be woken and given the chance to follow the faith if they choose against it this is when death i guess truly happens, for those who follow the faith a peacfull happy fullfilled life awaits, basicaly everyone sup[osedly will have the opsion of living or not those who are still alive when this happens aparently will know the truth again if u turn your back on it then say bye bye.
aparently there are warnings to this judgmeant period again if i remember correct it is along the lines of tidal waves/earthquakes etc man turning on man and all other beings n so on n so on .
i think in all fareness we need a practising whitness here to give actual info wat i have said was going from my memory of 8 yrs ago so i could be way of in all honesty. so basically no heaven just always here i guess


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## Guest (May 30, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> I know where heaven is! In the clouds! Thats what my mam told me!


Some would say heaven is in the bedroom


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## Guest (May 30, 2011)

shells said:


> ok i could be way out here as i come away from this a long time ago. but if i remember correctly when i asked about heaen n hell in the early stages of my studys i was told death isnt final its like you have just gone to sleep and that eeryone will be woken and given the chance to follow the faith if they choose against it this is when death i guess truly happens, for those who follow the faith a peacfull happy fullfilled life awaits, basicaly everyone sup[osedly will have the opsion of living or not those who are still alive when this happens aparently will know the truth again if u turn your back on it then say bye bye.
> aparently there are warnings to this judgmeant period again if i remember correct it is along the lines of tidal waves/earthquakes etc man turning on man and all other beings n so on n so on .
> i think in all fareness we need a practising whitness here to give actual info wat i have said was going from my memory of 8 yrs ago so i could be way of in all honesty. so basically no heaven just always here i guess


TBH Shells - the more I read to more it sounds like a load of poppycock! They used to burn witches at the stake years ago - the JW faith sounds no different! Do they seriously think they will be the only ones given a 'second' shot!


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> TBH Shells - the more I read to more it sounds like a load of poppycock! They used to burn witches at the stake years ago - the JW faith sounds no different! Do they seriously think they will be the only ones given a 'second' shot!


yup i know what you mean. looking back on things now i think i made the right choice in leaing when i did , but saying that i hae no isues with them as people all those i new were lovely however not everyone has met good ones but its the same with eery religeon u get the good n the bad , as long as they leave me to it im happy


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

shells said:


> i was told death isnt final its like you have just gone to sleep and that eeryone will be woken and given the chance to follow the faith


Not everyone. Only those who have served God, and those who have never had the chance to hear.

Real Hope for Your Loved Ones Who Have Died - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

This is JW belief, of course, not Evangelical belief.

Liz


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

lizward said:


> Not everyone. Only those who have served God, and those who have never had the chance to hear.
> 
> Real Hope for Your Loved Ones Who Have Died - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
> 
> ...


thanks hun my memory is verry ague on it  was a long time ago for me


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Some would say heaven is in the bedroom


Or in a big glass bottle filled with red fermented grape juice!:thumbup1:


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## Furrtiv (Mar 13, 2011)

Hi guys, been lurking for a while and found this thread extremely interesting. Sadly I do not have the time to talk to others about their faiths, but can understand the frustration some people may feel regarding lack of understanding, etc, as my own faith has taken some serious knocks and still isn't either accepted or understood. But hey, that's life! 

As for people knocking on my door - if a polite, firm "no thankyou" doesn't get them leaving, then telling them my religion will either have them running for the hills or praying for my soul!

For the record, I am a Satanist. And no, we don't worship the devil, or believe in him/it, and I can't say that I've ever eaten babies. 

But if anyone feels an urgent need to take the mickey out of my beliefs, go ahead; I betcha no-one here can say anything I, or the Church of Satan, haven't heard before.


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## shells (Jan 16, 2011)

Furrtiv said:


> Hi guys, been lurking for a while and found this thread extremely interesting. Sadly I do not have the time to talk to others about their faiths, but can understand the frustration some people may feel regarding lack of understanding, etc, as my own faith has taken some serious knocks and still isn't either accepted or understood. But hey, that's life!
> 
> As for people knocking on my door - if a polite, firm "no thankyou" doesn't get them leaving, then telling them my religion will either have them running for the hills or praying for my soul!
> 
> ...


hello and welcome, i honestly didnt know there was a church of satan ,


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

gorgeous said:


> Or in a big glass bottle filled with red fermented grape juice!:thumbup1:


Worra you like!:lol:



Furrtiv said:


> Hi guys, been lurking for a while and found this thread extremely interesting. Sadly I do not have the time to talk to others about their faiths, but can understand the frustration some people may feel regarding lack of understanding, etc, as my own faith has taken some serious knocks and still isn't either accepted or understood. But hey, that's life!
> 
> As for people knocking on my door - if a polite, firm "no thankyou" doesn't get them leaving, then telling them my religion will either have them running for the hills or praying for my soul!
> 
> ...


:eek6:

welcome to the forum lol


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Furrtiv said:


> Hi guys, been lurking for a while and found this thread extremely interesting. Sadly I do not have the time to talk to others about their faiths, but can understand the frustration some people may feel regarding lack of understanding, etc, as my own faith has taken some serious knocks and still isn't either accepted or understood. But hey, that's life!
> 
> As for people knocking on my door - if a polite, firm "no thankyou" doesn't get them leaving, then telling them my religion will either have them running for the hills or praying for my soul!
> 
> ...


How fascinating, I once watched a television programme about this years ago, but maybe that isn't a good thing! Actually it was not a scare mongering account 

I think that as long as you don't knock on anyones door ... you should be fine here ... in good company one could say 

I will have to do some reading on this!


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Furrtiv said:


> Hi guys, been lurking for a while and found this thread extremely interesting. Sadly I do not have the time to talk to others about their faiths, but can understand the frustration some people may feel regarding lack of understanding, etc, as my own faith has taken some serious knocks and still isn't either accepted or understood. But hey, that's life!
> 
> As for people knocking on my door - if a polite, firm "no thankyou" doesn't get them leaving, then telling them my religion will either have them running for the hills or praying for my soul!
> 
> ...


:mad5::mad5:Running for the hills BYE!!!!


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## Guest (May 30, 2011)

Furrtiv said:


> Hi guys, been lurking for a while and found this thread extremely interesting. Sadly I do not have the time to talk to others about their faiths, but can understand the frustration some people may feel regarding lack of understanding, etc, as my own faith has taken some serious knocks and still isn't either accepted or understood. But hey, that's life!
> 
> As for people knocking on my door - if a polite, firm "no thankyou" doesn't get them leaving, then telling them my religion will either have them running for the hills or praying for my soul!
> 
> ...


Hey thats OK! but I don't believe ya! need photographic proof! The 666 stamped onto the back of your head will sufice! just to check its the same as mine and not a fake!

lol
DT

ps welcome to the forumby the way!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Furrtiv said:


> Hi guys, been lurking for a while and found this thread extremely interesting. Sadly I do not have the time to talk to others about their faiths, but can understand the frustration some people may feel regarding lack of understanding, etc, as my own faith has taken some serious knocks and still isn't either accepted or understood. But hey, that's life!
> 
> As for people knocking on my door - if a polite, firm "no thankyou" doesn't get them leaving, then telling them my religion will either have them running for the hills or praying for my soul!
> 
> ...


Satanism is more about hedonism than anything else isn't it? Or is that only one part of it


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Hey thats OK! but I don't believe ya! need photographic proof! The 666 stamped onto the back of your head will sufice! just to check its the same as mine and not a fake!
> 
> lol
> DT
> ...


We should start a thread "Where do you hide your 666" or maybe not ... definately no pics 

No disrespect to Furtivv


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## Furrtiv (Mar 13, 2011)

Thankyou folks; the Church of Satan has a website, if anyone is interested it's easy enough to find. The Satanic Bible, written by LaVey, is available in most bookshops. There is also an active forum for interested parties and Satanists called Letters to the Devil. The Church of Satan is also a recognised religion in the United States, and has members worldwide.

People have often been surprised, upon reading the literature, to find out that the religion started by LaVey is the exact opposite of what they may think it is. I'd encourage anyone interested to check out the official website, but I will not try to convert anyone, as this religion is one of the few, I suspect, that actually doesn't encourage members to force or persuade people to convert.

But these are discussions for a whole other thread, so I will stop there.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Furrtiv said:


> Thankyou folks; the Church of Satan has a website, if anyone is interested it's easy enough to find. The Satanic Bible, written by LaVey, is available in most bookshops.


That was the guy the tv prog was about, I remember it was VERY interesting and not at all as one might expect. Do start another thread, have to get ready and go out, but would love to know more


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## LyndaDanny (Jan 23, 2011)

Just had a quick look at the Church of Satan website. Interesting and not at all what I was expecting.


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## daniellecool2003 (Jan 2, 2010)

back to the topic of JW's. The only two things that upsets me about them is there door to door calling. Though my husband has sorted that out. Whenever they call to the door he starts to tell them his veiws of the bible. Seeing them flicking through the bible trying to find what my husband is on about can be very funny. Im surprised they dont go away questioning there own faith lol. 

The other thing that upsets me is the fact they have no respect for life. It seems to me that their whole life revolves around the fact they feel that god is in control of their life and death. Hence there disapprovement of blood transfusions. Or any kind of medical help. Do they not think that maybe god placed the doctors there to keep them alive when it is possible. If god wanted you dead without a chance he would strike you down quickly so no intervention can take place.

Would anyone else agree with me?


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## Furrtiv (Mar 13, 2011)

For me, the only issue with those beliefs would be if children are denied medical help on the grounds of someone's religion. Although parents can control a large proportion of their children's lives - for the child's own good, obviously in most cases - I personally think that this is the line you do not cross; where your religious beliefs would cause harm/neglect to your own, or someone else's children. 
As adults, we get to make the choice for ourselves.
Other than that, no problem, believe what you will. However, respect and manners work all ways, and if a polite, firm "no thankyou" doesn't work, I sadly have to be rude and simply close the door.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*This thread wasn't about whether or not people agree or disagree with the JW faith.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Furrtiv said:


> For me, the only issue with those beliefs would be if children are denied medical help on the grounds of someone's religion. Although parents can control a large proportion of their children's lives - for the child's own good, obviously in most cases - I personally think that this is the line you do not cross; where your religious beliefs would cause harm/neglect to your own, or someone else's children.
> As adults, we get to make the choice for ourselves.
> Other than that, no problem, believe what you will. However, respect and manners work all ways, and if a polite, firm "no thankyou" doesn't work, I sadly have to be rude and simply close the door.


I watched a Louis Theroux documentary a while back and he was visiting a particular group in America. The bit that really upset me was the way a daughter was totally cast out by her family because she wouldn't conform. As a parent i just couldnt understand how they could place their religion above contact with their own flesh and blood


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> I watched a Louis Theroux documentary a while back and he was visiting a particular group in America. The bit that really upset me was the way a daughter was totally cast out by her family because she wouldn't conform. As a parent i just couldnt understand how they could place their religion above contact with their own flesh and blood


Rainybow, please read the OP's comment, this thread IS NOT whether people agree with the JW faith or not.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Rainybow, please read the OP's comment, this thread IS NOT whether people agree with the JW faith or not.


Thats ok then because i wasn't talking about the JW


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

zany_toon said:


> If you look at it objectively, JW's knocking on your door is actually a lot less intrusive than the Christian or Catholic religion - does anyone remember that Saint's days (Andrew, Patrick etc) are actually Catholic in origin, or that Christmas and Easter are Christian holidays? We claim to be tolerant of other religions as long as it isn't being forced down our throats yet expect the whole nation to follow these holidays (even if their meaning has been somewhat lost.)


I haven't read till past this yet, as the thread has gone a long way since I last logged on, so sorry if I'm repeating anything. We don't as a nation expect anyone to do anything on those days except, on some of them, enjoy a bank holiday. Nothing whatsoever happens on saints' days, and on the bank holidays there is no reqirement to do anything at all other than have a day off. I don't see how it compares.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Thats ok then because i wasn't talking about the JW


Oh okay!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Some people need to grow up.If taking the p*ss is all you can do your very sad.Talk about sheep.:frown2:*


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## daniellecool2003 (Jan 2, 2010)

I can understand what the thread is about. But when respect for life over religion is an issue. I can see why the p*ss is taken out of the religion. And i would imagine it would be the same for any religion that chooses religion over saving the life of an individual that can be saved.


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## Furrtiv (Mar 13, 2011)

I thought it was normal for long threads to twist, turn and wind through various discussions that veer from the original topic, kind of like a conversation with your mates in the pub?


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Furrtiv said:


> I thought it was normal for long threads to twist, turn and wind through various discussions that veer from the original topic, kind of like a conversation with your mates in the pub?


It is :thumbup1:


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## daniellecool2003 (Jan 2, 2010)

Furrtiv said:


> I thought it was normal for long threads to twist, turn and wind through various discussions that veer from the original topic, kind of like a conversation with your mates in the pub?


thats true


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*The thread was started because on other threads some people were taking the p*ss.And whether people agree with any religion or not they don't have the right to make fun.*


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## Furrtiv (Mar 13, 2011)

Ah, but the flipside of that is, there's no "right" to take offence, either. Yes, many things are offensive, but you can choose to ignore such things (unless of course they are really being pushed right into your face). People can try their hardest to offend someone, but if the target takes no offence, well, maybe they will stop being offensive.
Okay, so it won't work all the time, but it can be quite effective.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *The thread was started because on other threads some people were taking the p*ss.And whether people agree with any religion or not they don't have the right to make fun.*


But the thread had evolved into quite an interesting debate about religion in general with most people contributing respectfully, i really fail to see your problem Janice.

To be honest accusing members of lying isnt allowed either but members didnt make as much fuss about that.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> But the thread had evolved into quite an interesting debate about religion in general with most people contributing respectfully, i really fail to see your problem Janice.
> 
> To be honest accusing members of lying isnt allowed either but members didnt make as much fuss about that.


*You and i know the problem,trouble makers.But hey carry on with ya little pales.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *You and i know the problem,trouble makers.But hey carry on with ya little pales.*


I honestly am baffled as to what you expected to get from this thread 

I can only conclude it was to just make a "statement" rather than pose a question because clearly you didnt want any sort of actual discussion which is what a member would normally expect if they post a question in General Chat 

Shame because parts of the thread are very interesting but you couldnt bring yourself to contribute


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> I honestly am baffled as to what you expected to get from this thread
> 
> I can only conclude it was to just make a "statement" rather than pose a question because clearly you didnt want any sort of actual discussion which is what a member would normally expect if they post a question in General Chat
> 
> Shame because parts of the thread are very interesting but you couldnt bring yourself to contribute


*You didn't have to contribute..But not to worry i've asked for it to be locked.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *You didn't have to contribute..But not to worry i've asked for it to be locked.*


No i chose to and like i said some of it has been interesting which is why its a shame you havent contributed to those bits and taken the opportunity to extend peoples knowledge


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Thread closed at OP's Request..


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