# Well, that didn't last long did it......



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

All the European borders have gone into lockdown mode, even Germany, who was telling us all we should take more only last week....


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

I watched the Queen of Jordan's interview with interest this morning. They have taken in amazing amounts of Syrian refugees. Is the entire country emptying? Crazy, crazy. She mentioned all the issues that I considered the other day-infrastructure, health care, schools, homes, financial viability, very interesting.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

cinnamontoast said:


> I watched the Queen of Jordan's interview with interest this morning. They have taken in amazing amounts of Syrian refugees. Is the entire country emptying? Crazy, crazy. She mentioned all the issues that I considered the other day-infrastructure, health care, schools, homes, financial viability, very interesting.


If any normal person was a Syrian refugee would they go to Jordan or Europe....I know which is nearest, also the UK has strong links with Jordan an a joint-aid program would be far better than mass migration


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Because Jordan is right next to the war zone and Western Europe is not?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Shoshannah said:


> Because Jordan is right next to the war zone and Western Europe is not?


when you say close...

Its a darn long way from Northern Syria to Southern Jordan, and Israel is nearer, i tell you something, 2 nations ISIS wont upset are .... Jordan and Israel, neither dick about and both have some heavy military hardware, plenty to wipe out ISIS


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Because 1 in 10 people in Jordan is a Syrian refugee, and 80% of them live below the Jordanian poverty line? So not being bombed, but maybe not eating? Not getting medical care or education? Homeless and unlikely to be able to improve their situation? Not able to feel safe?

Figures below from Amnesty:
*Syria's refugee crisis in numbers*
4 September 2015, 19:28 UTC

*Refugees in the region*
More than* 4 million* refugees from Syria *(95%)* are in just five countries Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Egypt:

Lebanon hosts approximately *1.2 million* refugees from Syria which amounts to around one in five people in the country
Jordan hosts about *650,000* refugees from Syria, which amounts to about 10% of the population
Turkey hosts *1.9 million* refugees from Syria, more than any other country worldwide
Iraq where *3 million* people have been internally displaced in the last 18 months hosts *249,463* refugees from Syria
Egypt hosts *132,375* refugees from Syria
The UN humanitarian appeal for Syrian refugees is just *40%* funded.
Funding shortages mean that the most vulnerable Syrian refugees in Lebanon receive just* $13.50 per month* or *less than half a dollar a day* for food assistance.
More than *80%* of Syrian refugees in Jordan living below the local poverty line

Syria IS emptying - over 50% of the people are displaced with approximately a sixth outside the country and roughly a third displaced within Syria. Only about half of them are still in their own homes.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

well those walking into Hungary looked well fed, had paid thousands to cross the med, had mobile phones and Arsenal footy kits on....

what IS going on?

Europe is now waking up to reality, they should stay in Syria and fight for their country not abandon it asap


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

I do agree though that a increased and joint aid programme to help those in camps outside Syria would be a damn good idea.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Don't most people have mobile phones? Cheap technology, and not really something to judge someone's wealth by. Some newspapers still rage that benefits claimants have flatscreen TVs, but it's dang hard to buy any other sort these days.



Colliebarmy said:


> Its a darn long way from Northern Syria to Southern Jordan, and Israel is nearer


Southern Syria and northern Jordan are a tad close though. And as for Israel being closer, it depends to which part you are referring. The number of Syrian refugees in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey means that some worry the war will spill over Syria's borders.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that Syria is not a particularly poor country? The refugees who have lost everything may not have a penny to their name, but it may not mean they did not lead reasonably comfortable lifestyles before they became refugees.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Does how much they own have any bearing on their refugee status?


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> well those walking into Hungary looked well fed, had paid thousands to cross the med, had mobile phones and Arsenal footy kits on....
> 
> what IS going on?
> 
> Europe is now waking up to reality, they should stay in Syria and fight for their country not abandon it asap


Guess you're the type of person that would judge a person's right to use a disabled bay by the fact they didn't open the car door and just fall out.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

rona said:


> Does how much they own have any bearing on their refugee status?


I'm not sure... I couldn't work out whether it's how much one owns or the fact that one of the possessions is an Arsenal shirt which apparently precludes one from having one's home destroyed...


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

rona said:


> Does how much they own have any bearing on their refugee status?


well if all they grabbed before leaving was the iphone and football kit something doesnt ring tru


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Shoshannah said:


> I'm not sure... I couldn't work out whether it's how much one owns or the fact that one of the possessions is an Arsenal shirt which apparently precludes one from having one's home destroyed...


No, almost a cause of it id say.......who loves a Gooner?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Shoshannah said:


> Don't most people have mobile phones? Cheap technology, and not really something to judge someone's wealth by. Some newspapers still rage that benefits claimants have flatscreen TVs, but it's dang hard to buy any other sort these days.
> 
> Southern Syria and northern Jordan are a tad close though. And as for Israel being closer, it depends to which part you are referring. The number of Syrian refugees in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey means that some worry the war will spill over Syria's borders.


Israel wont hold back


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

They're wearing 'designer' clothes and carrying iPhones because many of them, up until fairly recently, will probably have led fairly normal lives - going to work, earning a living, etc. If some sort of war broke out in Britain, and we had to flee our homes in a short space of time, many of us would be leaving with designer clothes and our iPhones because that is what we own... Many of them aren't fleeing poverty, they're fleeing war and violence. And they've often used their entire savings to try to escape.


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

This whole anti-refugee attitude makes me shake my head in despair. The same people who resent refugees coming here would no doubt be the first people to feel entitled and demand refuge somewhere else if war broke out here. Bleh.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Europe is now waking up to reality,* they should stay in Syria and fight for their country not abandon it *asap


Maybe most of them would if they didn't have families to worry about - would you want your precious children to be living under a rain of shells every day?

I don't know what can or what should be done - I don't think that any country can take unlimited numbers of immigrants, - it's just so dreadful. Brought back awful, sad memories of the plight of the Vietnamese boat people in the seventies. They suffered terribly too, being robbed, raped and murdered by pirates, turned back at every port they came to . . . awful, just awful.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Well they can't keep their border open indefinitely so makes sense they will take so many and then shut off the border. Although I read elsewhere they are only temporarily closing the border to allow the stream of people to arrive at an orderly pace.

I have somewhat mixed feelings about all these people fleeing their country to be honest and don't genuinely believe that ALL are 'escaping' war and poverty and as I've said before I personally find this forum strangely out of touch with the wider publics perception IMO. It's about where you draw the line and who do you deem 'worthy' enough of entry and how many etc. It's not an easy answer and I do believe most countries are doing all they can to help. I'm not sure whether these people are being 'vetted' before entry or just allowed in regardless with no background checks or anything.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Fluffster said:


> They're wearing 'designer' clothes and carrying iPhones because many of them, up until fairly recently, will probably have led fairly normal lives - going to work, earning a living, etc. If some sort of war broke out in Britain, and we had to flee our homes in a short space of time, many of us would be leaving with designer clothes and our iPhones because that is what we own... Many of them aren't fleeing poverty, they're fleeing war and violence. And they've often used their entire savings to try to escape.





Fluffster said:


> This whole anti-refugee attitude makes me shake my head in despair. The same people who resent refugees coming here would no doubt be the first people to feel entitled and demand refuge somewhere else if war broke out here. Bleh.



*Reputation awarded *


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> I'm not sure whether these people are being 'vetted' before entry or just allowed in regardless with no background checks or anything.


This is another worry, of course - how many hard-line terrorists are entering Europe in the guise of refugees? No easy answers or simple solutions.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

lostbear said:


> This is another worry, of course - how many hard-line terrorists are entering Europe in the guise of refugees? No easy answers or simple solutions.


Yes exactly. And I know everyone keeps mentioning all the genuine migrants who are escaping in fear of their lives etc. But i think it's sensible to be cautious.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Maybe we need to rethink our ideas of refugees? We are used to famine or disaster refugees,and people who were poor before the event that made them refugees, but this is different. I just read an account of a male hairdresser who fled Syria, not wanting to be forced to join the army where he felt he woud die. Hairdressers don't get paid huge amounts but they aren't destitute. He needs help though, because to get out he had to pay a trafficker. He can't go home, so he needs to find somewhere else to live. Surely best for everyone if it is somewhere that lets him work and be self sufficient?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

This worries me too.

I feel desperately sorry for these poor Refugees, they must feel so desperate, it's incomprehensible to those of us who will never face such an awful situation.

I think though of the rigorous security checks at airports, to try and ensure that terrorists can't enter the Country. Simply throwing open the Borders, with no real Security measures in place, could open the doors to anyone wanting to enter, for very bad reasons, as well as good.

We do need to help, but we also need to be very careful.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> well if all they grabbed before leaving was the iphone and football kit something doesnt ring tru


so it's ok for people on benefits to have an iphone but god forbid a refugee will have one?? I'll just put this out here: the countries these people come from are full of fake things. You can get a pair of Gucci jeans for a fiver and a cheap iphone knock off for 20. My dad once brought back a fake Rolex from Afghanistan which he bought for a laugh - it cost him 20 dollars. I have to wonder if UK really doesn't have fake merchandise or are people just this naive? I come from a country where you go to a Sunday market and can buy fake Adidas (with 5 stripes), Nikes, Gucci, D&G, Boss etc. All of these things can be bought by people on minimum wage. 
CB, since you seem to be so jealous of their stuff here's a link to plenty of cheap crap. Maybe it will make you feel better: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Men-/123490...&_fcid=156&_localstpos&_stpos&gbr=1&_zpclkd=1


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

rona said:


> Does how much they own have any bearing on their refugee status?


Yes. It's a well known fact that if you have a coin in your breast pocket you cannot be shot.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Sweety said:


> This worries me too.
> 
> I feel desperately sorry for these poor Refugees, they must feel so desperate, it's incomprehensible to those of us who will never face such an awful situation.
> 
> ...


For the countries in the Schengen Zone the borders were already open. The UK and Ireland aren't. The Schengen Agreement apparently allows temporary reinstatement of border controls for security reasons which is what Germany has done. If countries are going to stick to their quotas then it can't be a free for all anyway.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Fluffster said:


> If some sort of war broke out in Britain, and we had to flee our homes in a short space of time, many of us would be leaving with designer clothes and our iPhones because that is what we own...


Indeed. Did we not just see a load of Brits fleeing a burning plane with their luggage ?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Dogloverlou said:


> I know everyone keeps mentioning all the genuine migrants who are escaping in fear of their lives etc. But i think it's sensible to be cautious.


This is the reaction the government want from people. Panic! So that they can continue to tear down countries of their choosing under the guise of this fictitious war on terror.
More chaos = more fear = someone to look to for protection = more money ploughed into the war industry = more chaos = more fear...

As far as the terrorist goes, which is to any extreme I'm told, there's a group of suited terrorists that have been getting away with all sorts of subterfuge, at home and abroad and, as it happens, their leader doesn't live in a cave, he lives at No10. Downing Street.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Fluffster said:


> If some sort of war broke out in Britain, and we had to flee our homes in a short space of time, many of us would be leaving with designer clothes and our iPhones because that is what we own...


Not me. I keep some tattered rags in my wardrobe, which I'll be sure to put on should I ever need to flee my home. I'll smear a bit of mud on my face for good measure too.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I think this highlights the fact that whilst refugees need to be helped, it has to be done in a controlled way - with systems, infrastructure and safeguards set up.

Just allowing a free for all is not going to work for anyone IMO


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

And again, the refugees at the Serbian border on the news this morning-all young males. Where are the women/children?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

People often put football shirts into charity bags along with other unwanted clothing - I know I have


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Shoshannah said:


> Not me.* I keep some tattered rags in my wardrobe, *which I'll be sure to put on should I ever need to flee my home. I'll smear a bit of mud on my face for good measure too.


I wear mine.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> People often put football shirts into charity bags along with other unwanted clothing - I know I have


Every time Newcastle loses a game, some deserving village is swamped with black-and-white garments . . .


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Did anyone see this article by Mark Steel? on (in Marks words) the 'warmth & compassion that oozes' from the Prime Minister'. Well I'm posting it anyway because I thought it was brilliant lol. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...fugee-problem-easily--heres-how-10485166.html
*Cameron can solve the refugee 'problem' easily - here's how*
*It's a shame Cameron wasn't in the fire brigade. He could have arrived at burning houses and shouted: "We won't solve the problem by helping you to get out of the building!"*


_A compromise may be possible for David Cameron in the problem of dealing with refugees. He could satisfy his instincts for remaining tough on immigration, while giving way towards the more compassionate attitude demanded in recent days, by agreeing to take in more refugees - as long as we get only the dead ones. Then no one can accuse Britain of not doing its bit. Because we will take in boatloads at a time, offering them a new start by chucking them into a skip. Kindness is the Conservative way.

But with the ones who are alive, as Cameron said, "You don't solve the problem by taking in more refugees." Because only a fool would think you help a refugee by offering warmth and shelter - that's the last thing they want_.

_As the Prime Minister made clear, we're being more helpful than that by creating stability in the areas they're fleeing from. It's a shame Cameron wasn't in the fire brigade. He could have cut costs enormously, by arriving at a burning house to shout: "We won't solve the problem by helping you to get out of the building. In any case the street's full up already so we've no room out here. But we are going to try to deal with the cause of the fire, so that's the main thing. Unfortunately I haven't the foggiest idea how to do that, and we don't possess a single bucket of water, but I'm sure you'll agree this is for the best. Bye_"

_Or he could make his own version of Titanic, in which he sails past the sinking ship and calls out through a megaphone to people clinging to lifeboats: "I'm here to help. That's why I'm not going to rescue you, but I do suggest you get that ship fixed. Good luck, everyone."

He was right to say you don't solve the whole problem of Middle Eastern turmoil by taking in more refugees, but you might solve the problem of where to put some of the refugees by taking in more refugees. Or maybe Cameron is like that with everything. If Samantha asks for a sandwich because she's hungry, perhaps he says: "Don't be stupid - you won't solve the problem of Syria being divided between a Western-backed tyrant and feudal jihadist maniacs with a sandwich."

Cameron did say one thing which must have been of great comfort to the people scrambling off a boat, commenting that in the areas they've fled from: "We are trying to make sure there are worthwhile jobs and stronger economies."

That's true compassion at work, asking Isis to set up a new shopping mall, with opportunities for work in sword shops and suggestions for a series of evening classes in skills such as making short but pithy films and blowing up ancient monuments, so all the refugees have to do is bobble about on a dinghy until that kicks in and remember to send a thank-you card when they're sorted.

One consistent line from Conservative politicians has been that our task is to stop refugees from thinking they'll be better off by coming here. To put this another way, we have to make life in Britain worse than it is under Isis. So we have to find a group that objects to Isis, on the grounds that they're too wishy-washy, then let them take over for a bit and just watch the problem melt away.

Because the reason these people come here is to exploit our generosity. They know all they have to do is float aimlessly for weeks on a rowing boat made of chipboard with 600 other people and on the off-chance they bump into land and are one of the 216 people we've accepted into Britain, in only two years they'll be entitled to housing benefit, the spongers._

_And let's not forget they'll earn more money by staying alive than they would if they stayed in Syria and got killed, so technically they are all economic migrants.

One MP explained yesterday that the refugees on the boats were "jumping the queue", to come here. And the first thought of all reasonable people upon seeing the pictures of bodies washed up on the beach was that "they're trying to jump the queue, that's what they're doing". If they want to come to Britain, of all places, you'd think they'd learn our customs and keep in their place.

The politicians, of all parties, and the newspapers most practised at moaning about immigrants, may have misjudged their own power slightly. Because even many Ukip voters who complain loudly about asylum-seekers have a change of heart when they're confronted with real refugees with real stories. So the Daily Mail and The Sun are suddenly having to adjust, with headlines such as: "What a tragedy, about the poor families who last week we were calling parasitic criminal human bacteria who will EAT your FURNITURE."

Because the sentiment that's seemed more mainstream has been that of the German football crowds who displayed banners welcoming refugees, the volunteers taking provisions to Calais, or the 10,000 people from Iceland who have offered to put up a refugee each_.

_But if Icelandic people really wanted to help, they'd tell the refugees their life will be even worse in their house than it is under Isis, and in any case they've written to Syria and asked the jihadists to create worthwhile jobs and a strong economy._

_*Because in the future, when people look back on this episode, they will remember fondly the people who did the right thing, in the same way that now we look back at the 1930s and have nothing but contempt for those idiots who let in the Jews who were jumping the queue. Whereas we well up with pride when we recall those brave souls who told the Jews to keep out as we had plenty here already, and in any case you don't solve the problem of Hitler by taking in more refugees.*_


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

lostbear said:


> I wear mine.


Me too  when you're around dogs daily, training, walking, and generally covered in hairs you don't care for fashion! I often look scruffy I suspect *sigh*


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

cinnamontoast said:


> And again, the refugees at the Serbian border on the news this morning-all young males.* Where are the women/children?*


Standing back while the men try to find a way to cross the border.
It so happens that in many societies the men still go forward while the women stay back to look after the children.
If the cameras panned out I'm pretty sure that's what you would find happening here.
But they don't do they?
Makes you wonder why.....


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

The women and children, and the old and the disabled are there 
http://www.itv.com/news/story/2015-...fired-at-refugees-on-serbia-hungarian-border/

You just need an editor interested in the tragedy and not the conflict to show it


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> well if all they grabbed before leaving was the iphone and football kit something doesnt ring tru


What many people seem to be missing is that Syria is not - well, WAS not - some backwards, poverty stricken third world country before ISIS started trying to drag it back into the 7th century. It was actually reasonably affluent and modern.

Was...










































And if *you* had to pack up and leave your country at extremely short notice due to fanatics shooting/blowing up everyone who refused to join their cause (or just indisciminately), what would you take? I'm guessing afer food, sensible clothes and all the money/valuables you could access and reasonably carry, your mobile would be next on the list. Or would you deliberately NOT take the one piece of equipment you could use to try and contact friends and family (not to mention keep up with the news and help you navigate/avoid the worst spots) on the grounds that strangers watching from a distance would judge you unworthy of help because you happened to have been employed and saved enough money to buy a smartphone?

Somehow, even if that DID cross your mind I doubt you'd think it was worth hanging around in a warzone just to try and find a suitably ancient-looking candybar mobile (and as someone WITH a candybar for practical reasons, you can pick up many a smartphone new or second hand for significantly less than I paid for my supposedly cheaper-looking phone) to take instead on the grounds that a 'proper' refugee shouldn't appear to have ever been well off enough to afford modern technology...


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

I guess I'm just one of those "new age hippies" that would choose to help people because they're human beings in need, regardless of the few items they grabbed while escaping their home amidst flying bombs. If I had to flee my house right now, I'd have my iPhone with me because it's in my pocket. I'll be sure to leave it behind if it's a condition of getting help.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I don't even own a mobile! lol.

*Well technically I lie because I have an old cheapy thing VERY basic for emergencies....that I never use and it barely sees the light of day* But no, wouldn't be the first thing I grab. It's perfectly reasonable to expect most people to own one though and naturally have it on them/with them. With how easy mobiles are to get a hold of these days it's not really a 'luxury' item as such.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

The rioting migrants at Hungary's border didnt seem to be subdued broken refugees.....


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Jesthar said:


> What many people seem to be missing is that Syria is not - well, WAS not - some backwards, poverty stricken third world country before ISIS started trying to drag it back into the 7th century. It was actually reasonably affluent and modern.
> 
> Was...
> 
> ...


Your images are almost exactly like London before and after the blitz in WW2, when "we" (the allies) but mainly the UK didnt run away, we stood and fought.....


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> Your images are almost exactly like London before and after the blitz in WW2, when "we" (the allies) but mainly the UK didnt run away, we stood and fought.....


Well, I'm sure if the Syrians had the luxury of being an island nation with a 21 mile wide (minumum) stretch of highly unpredictable water between them and their enemy, they might be doing a bit better. If it weren't for the Channel, we'd have been steamrollered just as quickly as France, and if it wasn't for the Empire, the Americans (courtesy of Japan), other overseas supporters and Hitler committing military suicide by invading Russia we may well have been conversing in German today. The Channel and the overseas support bought us the time we needed to rebuild and re-arm after losing everything except the rescued men at Dunkirk.

Standing and fighting is all very well when you have weapons (or time and resources to acquire and train in them) and a suitable place to do it from. When you are an unarmed civilian with an enemy _already_ prowling your strees shooting anyone they fancy, your options are a bit more limited. Courage and bravery is all very well, but regrettably doesn't provide any protection against bullets and bombs.


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

Colliebarmy said:


> The rioting migrants at Hungary's border didnt seem to be subdued broken refugees.....


Depends which way you look at it.
Evidently the nearest Serbian hospital was on emergency alert because there were so many casualties, some serious.
Did you see the filming, with children getting tear gas in their eyes and their fathers covered in blood trying to run with them to safety?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> Your images are almost exactly like London before and after the blitz in WW2, when "we" (the allies) but mainly the UK didnt run away, we stood and fought.....


How do you/can you continually compare world war to this present situation? Back then the entire planet was plunged into conflict. Where was there to run?

You also seem to be slightly outraged by people running from the war zone instead of doing what might be considered an 'expected duty' for their country.
Perhaps you think that pelting rocks and rubble at the aggressors is adequate enough defence against high tech' weapons. After all tech' weapons will produce an endless supply of rocks and rubble just as the financiers will provide an endless supply of high tech' weapons to the aggressors.

These comments you insist to post about the cowardly actions of people fleeing from war, particularly, as I've come to notice, are almost always aimed at the French as an example, (no pun intended) are in a word, nonsensical.

However, if you wish to pursue your accusations of 'cowardice' then I'll stand in defence of those actions by posting a little truth that just might well stick in your craw.
In brief, it was considered that Germany had won the 1st world war. Under the relentless onslaught of the Germans the Russians, poorly provided, were turning back from certain death, the Italian army had collapsed and no longer wanted part of the insanity, Britain's ammunition was depleted, she faced certain defeat and was on the verge of starvation. The French had already lost 600,000 young men on the Somme (600,000 brave young men I might add, - no cowards there then) and seeing no immediate resolution to the war, downed tools and wanted for nothing more but to go home.
Germany offered England a 'Status quo ante bellum' ( A declaration of peace - but you can research that for yourself) and England, in her time of great need, was seriously considering signing in order to save herself from complete ruin.

So, as you can see, the Kaiser also had us on the run.

Stage two - enter the Zionists. Zionists approached the British war cabinet telling them they did not have to accept peace under German terms if the United States of America came into the war as their allies. 









The Zionist vowed to bring America into the war provided that England made specific promises herself.....

Cue the Balfour Declaration.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Zaros said:


> How do you/can you continually compare world war to this present situation? Back then* the entire planet was plunged into conflict. Where was there to run?*
> 
> Germany offered England a 'Status quo ante bellum' ( A declaration of peace - but you can research that for yourself) and England, in her time of great need, was seriously considering signing in order to save herself from complete ruin.
> 
> ...


Yes - short of swimming to the the USA or buying your way into Switzerland, which only the Nazis seemed able to afford, there was no way to escape a conflict which involved both hemispheres and almost every nation. America only came in when her own self-interest was threatened and even then insisted on economic concessions which I believe we have only just finished paying off. (US seems very quiet regarding this refugee crisis too - especially bearing in mind that much of this is a direct result of American interference in the ME over the years, as I understand it - and I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong).

I feel that it is very sad, though, that the surrounding Arab nations don't seem to be taking any interest in the welfare of those fleeing this hideous conflict. Or is this something which is happening but is unreported in the news?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

silvi said:


> Depends which way you look at it.
> Evidently the nearest Serbian hospital was on emergency alert because there were so many casualties, some serious.
> Did you see the filming, with children getting tear gas in their eyes and their fathers covered in blood trying to run with them to safety?


Oh, so the media is right when it suits and wrong when it doesnt?

They showed a girl in a wheelchair travelling by taxi then being pushed along a track, so who do we believe?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

lostbear said:


> Yes - short of swimming to the the USA or buying your way into Switzerland, which only the Nazis seemed able to afford, there was no way to escape a conflict which involved both hemispheres and almost every nation. America only came in when her own self-interest was threatened and even then insisted on economic concessions which I believe we have only just finished paying off. (US seems very quiet regarding this refugee crisis too - especially bearing in mind that much of this is a direct result of American interference in the ME over the years, as I understand it - and I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong).
> 
> I feel that it is very sad, though, that the surrounding Arab nations don't seem to be taking any interest in the welfare of those fleeing this hideous conflict. Or is this something which is happening but is unreported in the news?


Yes, lets load 20 ocean liners from Syria and let them go to the USA...

Q. What happens when Syria is empty, Is Iraq next cos the USA wont let that happen


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Zaros said:


> How do you/can you continually compare world war to this present situation? Back then the entire planet was plunged into conflict. Where was there to run?
> 
> You also seem to be slightly outraged by people running from the war zone instead of doing what might be considered an 'expected duty' for their country.
> Perhaps you think that pelting rocks and rubble at the aggressors is adequate enough defence against high tech' weapons. After all tech' weapons will produce an endless supply of rocks and rubble just as the financiers will provide an endless supply of high tech' weapons to the aggressors.
> ...


It's a shame there is only an option to "like" this post. I actually sat back and applauded.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Running from a war zone ---- fine

Running across many countries ------ not so fine

Running to what they think is a wealthy country ------- opposite of fine


Where will we house them?


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## smoking guns (Feb 24, 2015)

I honestly can't tell anymore if Colliebarmy is just a troll or not.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Running from a war zone ---- fine
> 
> Running across many countries ------ not so fine
> 
> ...


Right, because running to a poor country that would have more reasons not to accept refugees would be the obvious choice??


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

smoking guns said:


> I honestly can't tell anymore if Colliebarmy is just a troll or not.


Nah. I saw him the other day out fishing. Fair enough, he was sitting UNDER the bridge, and picking goat ribs out of his teeth, but . . .

. . . . . . . . . . .OHMY!


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> Running from a war zone ---- fine
> 
> Running across many countries ------ not so fine
> 
> ...


Where will we house them??

Cameron agreed to take in 20,000 refugees. The UK has 43,000 towns. That's less than 1 refugee in every 2 towns. Its hardly likely you'll be tripping over them on your way to the shops!

Even at a ratio of 1 refugee per town, it's hardly going to bring us to our knees. Pulling the plug on those wonderful UK residents committing housing benefit fraud would more than solve the problem of helping those in genuine need.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Nettles said:


> Where will we house them??
> 
> Cameron agreed to take in 20,000 refugees. The UK has 43,000 towns. That's less than 1 refugee in every 2 towns. Its hardly likely you'll be tripping over them on your way to the shops!
> 
> Even at a ratio of 1 refugee per town, it's hardly going to bring us to our knees.* Pulling the plug on those wonderful UK residents committing housing benefit fraud would more than solve the problem of helping those in genuine need.*


ANd pulling the plug on the rich who get richer by exploiting minimum wage workers and zero hours contracts would do even more.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

lostbear said:


> ANd pulling the plug on the rich who get richer by exploiting minimum wage workers and zero hours contracts would do even more.


Exactly! Oh and £85 billion a year on tax evasion..


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

lostbear said:


> I feel that it is very sad, though, that the surrounding Arab nations don't seem to be taking any interest in the welfare of those fleeing this hideous conflict. Or is this something which is happening but is unreported in the news?


Depends on what you call an Arab nation - according to Amnesty, 

Lebanon hosts approximately *1.2 million* refugees from Syria which amounts to around one in five people in the country
Jordan hosts about *650,000* refugees from Syria, which amounts to about 10% of the population
Turkey hosts *1.9 million* refugees from Syria, more than any other country worldwide
Iraq where *3 million* people have been internally displaced in the last 18 months hosts *249,463* refugees from Syria
Egypt hosts *132,375* refugees from Syria


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> Me too  when you're around dogs daily, training, walking, and generally covered in hairs you don't care for fashion! I often look scruffy I suspect *sigh*


Yep, me three  My trousers have lots of holes in them and I do not own anything 'fashionable'.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jesthar said:


> *What many people seem to be missing is that Syria is not - well, WAS not - some backwards, poverty stricken third world country before ISIS started trying to drag it back into the 7th century. It was actually reasonably affluent and modern.*
> 
> Was...
> 
> ...


Although I totally agree with your sentiment, I have to just point out that our NATO allies trained, armed & funded ISIS. NATO airstrikes are responsible for much of the destruction in Syria Added to that Britain is fuelling conflict in this region (& around the globe) by selling arms to both allies & enemies alike. So we have played a major role in the destruction of Syria (& other countries) - & so helped create this terrible refugee crisis we are now witnessing.

This cant be shared enough imo


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> Although I totally agree with your sentiment, I have to just point out that our NATO allies trained, armed & funded ISIS. NATO airstrikes are responsible for much of the destruction in Syria Added to that Britain is fuelling conflict in this region (& around the globe) by selling arms to both allies & enemies alike. So we have played a major role in the destruction of Syria (& other countries) - & so helped create this terrible refugee crisis we are now witnessing.


I'm guessing NATO is your latest political political hobby horse, then... 

And that wasn't sentiment, that was an attempt to explain in a logical fashion why a refugee might legitimately have a smartphone. The photos were picked to show that Syria was a reasonably well of country, and the '7th century' is a standard historical reference to the severe Islamic code ISIS impose. Nothing more.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Well, Croatia is now inundated by the Exodus and putting up fences...at least we have 20 mile of water between us and Europe


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Jesthar said:


> I'm guessing NATO is your latest political political hobby horse, then...
> 
> And that wasn't sentiment, that was an attempt to explain in a logical fashion why a refugee might legitimately have a smartphone. The photos were picked to show that Syria was a reasonably well of country, and the '7th century' is a standard historical reference to the severe Islamic code ISIS impose. Nothing more.


Not at all, I only mention it where relevant  (Like on refugee threads)

I know what your sentiment was & I agreed with you on that. However, I felt the need to point out the major role we have played in the destruction of Syria, not only with airstrikes but in our connection with ISIS & arms dealing.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Well, Croatia is now inundated by the Exodus and putting up fences...at least we have 20 mile of water between us and Europe


I suspect that Europe is grateful that you are kept away by the channel . . .


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> Well, Croatia is now inundated by the Exodus and putting up fences...at least we have 20 mile of water between us and Europe


Don't you mean wealthy Croatia ? Croatia doesn't figure in the top 20. Poor old UK only comes in at no 15. It's all a ruse. They're actually headed for Monaco.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Did anyone check this terrified child for an iPhone?








This breaks my heart.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> Well, Croatia is now inundated by the Exodus and putting up fences...at least we have 20 mile of water between us and Europe


Did I miss something ? Did we leave Europe ? Tectonic plate movement could deposit us in South East Asia. Where will it all end ?


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Well, Croatia is now inundated by the Exodus and putting up fences...at least we have 20 mile of water between us and Europe


I have never met a person who would be this happy to live on an island. It is actually quite sad.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

shadowmare said:


> I have never met a person who would be this happy to live on an island. It is actually quite sad.


Robinson Crusoe?

I see your in Scotland, when the SNP manage to fiddle a yes vote for independence and all 56 SNP MP's have leave Westmister, your isolation will be complete, maybe Cameron will reclaim the dockyards he gave you as a sweetener and we can have our nuke-subs back too


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Robinson Crusoe?
> 
> I see your in Scotland, when the SNP manage to fiddle a yes vote for independence and all 56 SNP MP's have leave Westmister, your isolation will be complete, maybe Cameron will reclaim the dockyards he gave you as a sweetener and we can have our nuke-subs back too


Sorry - is this in English?


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

lostbear said:


> Sorry - is this in English?


Yes.. but with a strong troll accent.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> Running from a war zone ---- fine
> Running across many countries ------ not so fine
> Running to what they think is a wealthy country ------- opposite of fine



*If I grow up I will always wonder if you ever did.







*​


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> Robinson Crusoe?
> 
> I see your in Scotland, when the SNP manage to fiddle a yes vote for independence and all 56 SNP MP's have leave Westmister, your isolation will be complete, maybe Cameron will reclaim the dockyards he gave you as a sweetener *and we can have our nuke-subs back too*


The Scotts don't want 'our' nuke-subs'. And who could blame them! Would you want Trident in your back yard?


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Nettles said:


> Did anyone check this terrified child for an iPhone?
> View attachment 244994
> 
> *This breaks my heart*.


It's meant to, that's why they printed it.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> The Scotts don't want 'our' nuke-subs'. And who could blame them! Would you want Trident in your back yard?


but they want the jobs generated from OUR (Royal) Navy in terms of warship building and RN dockyards, isnt that 2 faced?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> The Scotts don't want 'our' nuke-subs'. And who could blame them! Would you want Trident in your back yard?












Interesting character is this Zbigniew Brzezinski.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

BTW, how many nukes have gone off by accident since Hiroshima? just remind me


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

What gets me, is the way they just expect european counties to take them, it's getting stupid. I feel sorry for them but who do they think they are expecting euro to pay to look after them all.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

They probably aren't thinking, they probably just want out of there. Imagine if the UK was embroiled in civil war and terrorism, with the US and Russians getting involved. You'd hear the fighting and missiles getting nearer. Maybe lose a friend, or family member, or more. Your home now rubble, the sofa you spent 4 years paying for from DFS a mangled heap of dust. Your car unusable. You grab everything you can, let your pets loose to fend for themselves, what else can you do? Then you pick up your kids and run. Along the way you hear that Europe is safe and helping people. A boatman offers you a place. Climb on board, heading for safety. Then abandoned at sea to fend for yourself, you eventually get to shore. You see nothing but signs, soldiers, authority and wire and are moved on. Many are ordinary, average people. Teachers, hospital workers, scientists, shop assistants, car mechanics. What do you think they are, rabid rats?

Do we ask for civil war? Do we ask for oil? Do we ask for politicians and religious extremists to fight over us? I know I don't. I can't imagine what the individual is going through.

Terrible, terrible times for these people. I expect they hope to find work and eventually are able to return to rebuild, or make an ordinary peaceful life away from conflict, worrying about everyday, tedious rubbish instead. Individuals aren't going to be thinking, ah well there's a few hundred thousand escaped already, I'll just stay here and die with my kids, are they? 

Dreadful, dreadful situation.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I do worry how many IS terrorists are among them, a easy way for them to get here.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

IS terrorists are getting on planes and trains and leaving the UK to go to Syria. Why would they want to use people smugglers to smuggle them back in, when they could just keep them here in the first place and build up the home grown version?


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Plus if you're a refugee running because you're a target for ISIS and escaping conflict in fear of your life, if one ended up in the queue next to you, or sat in your dingy, you'd probably grass them up, or push them overboard. 

I would guess there's far easier ways for a terrorist group to infiltrate Europe tbh. starting with group members who are already here, or recruited here and Syrian refugees are probably more frightened of them than we are.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

^. Good points, although the working assumption would be that IS militants would be armed while on the boats?

This is the most balanced analysis I have seen on the topic (from International Business Times).....

*Migrant crisis: Are Isis terrorists infiltrating refugee boats to Europe?*

Lebanon's education minister Elias Bousaab became the latest in a series of politicians to say that Islamic State (Isis) militants may be infiltrating migrant boats carrying would-be refugees to Europe. His and similar claims have been used by nationalist parties across the EU to advocate for tougher immigration policies.

In Britain, Ukip has warned more vocally than any other party about the risks of Islamist intrusions. Launching the party campaign for Britain's EU referendum at the beginning of September, leader Nigel Farage said there was a "very genuine fear" that IS could exploit the migrant crisis to carry out atrocities.

"When [IS] say they will use the migrant tide to flood Europe with 500,000 of their own jihadists, I think we better listen," he said, citing threats made by IS supporters online. "Five hundred thousand may not be realistic but what if it's 5,000, what if it's 500?" he asked.

_"There have been no confirmed cases, zero!"_

_*- Italian MP Giorgio Brandolin*_

More than 500,000 migrants have crossed EU borders this year, adding to the 280,000 who arrived in 2014, according to the 28-nation bloc border agency. Many fled war in Syria and Iraq - where IS has a strong presence - or boarded rickety boats for Italy in Libya, where the extremist group is also active.

The possibility that even a tiny number of them are trained jihadists is indeed a matter of concern for European governments. However there is little proof this is actually happening, according to officials and analysts.

Italy, which with Greece is the main entry point for asylum seekers travelling via sea, hasn't had any case of known terrorists disembarking from a migrant boat over the last two years, a lawmaker with inside knowledge of related investigations told* IBTimes UK*.

"There have been no confirmed cases, zero!" said Giorgio Brandolin, the deputy chairman of a cross-chamber parliamentary committee on immigration and security. "Terror groups spend money on training militants; it makes no sense for them to send them over on death boats, risking them drowning on the way," he said.

Similarly at European level, Afzal Khan, the vice chair of the EU parliament subcommittee on security and defence, told *IBTimes UK* that he had also no information on Islamists arriving disguised as migrants. "The only thing I have seen evidence of has been European citizens going into Syria and committing terrorist acts. I have not come across any evidence the other way around," the Labour MEP said.

Bousaab himself said his statement was based on "a gut feeling" rather than hard evidence.

Most Islamist attacks that hit Europe in recent months, like the shootings at Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris and at cultural centre and synagogue in Copenhagen, have been carried out by young men born, raised and radicalised in the country they then chose as target rather than by foreign jihadists. Ayoub El-Khazzani, the 25-year-old Moroccan who allegedly opened fire on a passenger train in France last month, had been living in Europe for years. He is believed to have travelled to Turkey and possible to Syria in May but is not known to have come back on a migrant boat. Would-be refugees are usually fingerprinted and identified upon reaching European shores.

There have been reports that Salafist preachers in Europe are targeting freshly arrived refugees for radicalisation, as well as cases of migrants who went on to apply for asylum and had their request turned down over suspected terrorist ties.

Christopher Hein, the director of the Italian Council for Refugees (CIR), a charity helping migrants with asylum applications, said they had a handful of beneficiaries who turned out to be suspected Islamists from 2010 to 2013 but none over the past couple of years.

"It doesn't mean that it's certain there have been no cases at all but I can assure it's absolutely a residual phenomenon", he said.

The Greek interior ministry said they could not disclose the number of asylum application they recently denied because of suspect terrorism links, as the information was confidential and classified. Greek police did not reply to questions regarding suspects who had reached the country but did not apply for refugee status.

Similarly in the UK, the Home Office said information on asylum denials related to terrorism was protected on the grounds of national security.

Ukip's migration spokesman, Steven Wolfe MEP, told *IBTimes UK* that was the reason they also had no evidence of Islamist migrants. However, he said that regardless of the numbers the prospect was still concerning.

_"It is a key point that we cannot afford this risk so we need to be alert and we need to take all the necessary precautions to prevent that"_

_*- MEP Afzal Khan*_

"The issue was very pressing before because there were always routes into Europe. As we have seen in the past few weeks, it's obvious that it is easy to travel into Europe over the borders, whether it is through Macedonia up to Hungary or whether you are coming in through Serbia or Turkey," he said.

In his campaign launch speech, Nigel Farage mentioned as proof that IS fighters had already arrived in Europe Majid Touil, 22, a suspected Islamist militant who was detained on a Tunisian arrest warrant in the northern Italian town of Gaggiano in May. Tunisian authorities alleged he was involved in the Bardo museum attack that killed 22 people.

However he claims to be innocent and doubts have been raised about his supposed role in the shooting. The Moroccan was initially described as one of the key figures in the 18 March attack, but it soon became clear he had arrived in the Sicilian port of Porto Empedocle aboard a crowded migrant boat from Libya in mid-February.

There he was identified, photographed, fingerprinted and issued with an expulsion order, not because considered a security threat but because Rome doesn't grant Moroccans immediate right of asylum. He neglected the loosely enforced order and reached his mother and siblings who live in Gaggiano and described him as a young man who prefers local bars to the mosque.

Authorities confirmed he was attending class at literacy school near Milan when armed men stormed the museum in Tunis.

He is facing extradition to Tunisia on allegations he provided logistical support to the attackers and remains in remains in jail pending Italy's lengthy judicial proceedings. Details of accusations laid out against him should become clearer in the coming weeks as Milan prosecutors are due to file their arguments for extradition. His lawyer Silvia Fiorentino said Touil came to Italy to join his family and has nothing to do with the events at Bardo museum. "I believe and hope he will not be extradited," she told *IBTimes UK*. Tunisian authorities arrested roughly 50 people in a crackdown on alleged Islamic militants in the wake of the shooting.

Brandolin said Touil's case and the terrorist threat posed by the migrant influx have been overblown by nationalists across Europe for political gain. "People's fears are exploited to blur their minds. There is a lot of manipulation and little information," he said.

Nevertheless the MP with Italy's ruling centre-left Democratic Party said authorities remained watchful since Islamic terrorism was doubtless a matter of concern. His views were echoed by Khan, who said: "It is a key point that we cannot afford this risk so we need to be alert and we need to take all the necessary precautions to prevent that".

However, he noted, referring to Bousaab's claim, "We cannot go around making policies based on gut feeling. Policies have to be based on evidence."


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2015)

I don’t mean to alarm anyone but I’m pretty sure ISIS already has operatives all over Europe. 
Now, if they’re plan is to flood Western Europe with as many Jihadists as possible, and they succeed, I imagine the fleeing Westerners would hope to be met with hospitality and not suspicion of being terrorists. 
Oh the irony....


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I don't mean to alarm anyone but I'm pretty sure ISIS already has operatives all over Europe.
> Now, if they're plan is to flood Western Europe with as many Jihadists as possible, and they succeed, I imagine the fleeing Westerners would hope to be met with hospitality and not suspicion of being terrorists.
> Oh the irony....


Oh but surely all the westerners would stay to protect their countries! unchunchunch everyone surely would go into streets, grab whatever's in their sight and stand side by side to stop the evil powers...right?


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Elles said:


> They probably aren't thinking, they probably just want out of there. Imagine if the UK was embroiled in civil war and terrorism, with the US and Russians getting involved. You'd hear the fighting and missiles getting nearer. Maybe lose a friend, or family member, or more. Your home now rubble, the sofa you spent 4 years paying for from DFS a mangled heap of dust. Your car unusable. You grab everything you can, let your pets loose to fend for themselves, what else can you do? Then you pick up your kids and run. Along the way you hear that Europe is safe and helping people. A boatman offers you a place. Climb on board, heading for safety. Then abandoned at sea to fend for yourself, you eventually get to shore. You see nothing but signs, soldiers, authority and wire and are moved on. Many are ordinary, average people. Teachers, hospital workers, scientists, shop assistants, car mechanics. What do you think they are, rabid rats?
> 
> Do we ask for civil war? Do we ask for oil? Do we ask for politicians and religious extremists to fight over us? I know I don't. I can't imagine what the individual is going through.
> 
> ...


That's a good depiction of the plight of those fleeing Syria but, if this morning's news is to be believed, that doesn't apply to 80% of them does it?


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Satori said:


> That's a good depiction of the plight of those fleeing Syria but, if this morning's news is to be believed, that doesn't apply to 80% of them does it?


What makes you think that this mornings news would be so different from any other mornings news that it should actually be believed?


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## Caulibarmy (Sep 20, 2015)

porps said:


> What makes you think that this mornings news would be so different from any other mornings news that it should actually be believed?


I suppose you have better data on the percentage of arrivals by country then.

Please do share.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

I cant work out how, after a trip off many 100's of miles to the med, a hell of a sea crossing and then a walk of more 100's of miles they all look clean, well dressed, and fed, whats the logistics backup here? where are the toilets, washrooms, laundry, soup kitchens? I hear some have had a 4 week journey, they seem to be travelling light.....


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

ouesi said:


> I don't mean to alarm anyone but I'm pretty sure ISIS already has operatives all over Europe.
> Now, if they're plan is to flood Western Europe with as many Jihadists as possible, and they succeed, I imagine the fleeing Westerners would hope to be met with hospitality and not suspicion of being terrorists.
> Oh the irony....


Where would we be going?


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Caulibarmy said:


> I suppose you have better data on the percentage of arrivals by country then.
> 
> Please do share.


I suppose you've read something into my post which was not actually written there. Please, try to understand that 2+2 does not equal 5.

If you want data, go look for it.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2015)

Colliebarmy said:


> Where would we be going?


Does it matter? It's about having empathy for someone who has found themselves having to flee their own home. I hope for your sake you never find yourself in the position of needing the hospitality of strangers. Then again, I hope you do, and that you receive that hospitality and perhaps learn something about kindness to your fellow man....


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

CB have you got a secret admirer or are you posting under an alter ego?


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> BTW, how many nukes have gone off by accident since Hiroshima? just remind me


Do Chernobyl and Three-Mile Island count? Not explosions, but bad enough.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> CB have you got a secret admirer or are you posting under an alter ego?


For their own safety, any admirer would be wise to remain secret.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Probably they wouldn't be allowed near anything sharp either.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Or even out of their straitjacket.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

lostbear said:


> Do Chernobyl and Three-Mile Island count? Not explosions, but bad enough.


No


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> CB have you got a secret admirer?


damn, rumbled again


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> I cant work out how, after a trip off many 100's of miles to the med, a hell of a sea crossing and then a walk of more 100's of miles they all look clean, well dressed, and fed, whats the logistics backup here? where are the toilets, washrooms, laundry, soup kitchens? I hear some have had a 4 week journey, they seem to be travelling light.....


Mum looks well fed for a refugee, and thats after a few thousand miles walking ...


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

It saddens me that there are apparently many economic migrants using the Syrian crisis as a way to get into Europe. It's not that I begrudge anyone a decent standard of living, but every place that they take up is one which is snatched away from someone whose life is really in danger - and of course, people think that the genuine refugees are just looking to the main chance, too, and they don't get the support they need and deserve.


----------

