# Exposing puppy farms



## tashi

puppyalert - Puppy Alert


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## Guest

Ahh ty  

lets hope lots read it and take it all in


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## clueless

Great Link. Hope you do not mind but I think this one is appropriate here as well
The Backyard Breeders' and Puppy Millers' Big Book of Old Excuses


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## sskmick

That's certainly opened my eyes.

Sue


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## Sgurr

Thanks for these postings,

Sgurr


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## gazt

i never new thier were so many shops selling puppys i new of willow farm its not far from me ,this is a good thread which could warn poeple about where not to buy pups from lets hope the message spreads and puts these places out of bussiness


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## krystil

thank god for people out there highlighting these so called breeders,its a shame that the animals suffer,i know what a would like to do to them give them a taste of there own.


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## rottiesloveragdolls

*Dont it make ya feel sick to your Stomach *


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## Jackinthebox

I never even considered getting a dog from a breeder or anywhere other than a rescue shelter, seems pointless (unless you want a specifics show dog or something) to allow so many people to keep breeding and breeding with no regard to where the puppies will end up later in their lives


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## Katie&Cody

So sad! Why do people do this...it bemuses me


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## Katie&Cody

Jackinthebox said:


> I never even considered getting a dog from a breeder or anywhere other than a rescue shelter, seems pointless (unless you want a specifics show dog or something) to allow so many people to keep breeding and breeding with no regard to where the puppies will end up later in their lives


100& agree although Riley will be from a first time breeder and friend and that is only because i cannot find a local rescue centre that has the breed i am looking for.


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## gsdowner

There is a lot of work going on to try and stop these puppy farms/bad breeders, you can help by signing the petitions and downloading the posters from many of the forums that are working hard to bring in new legislation's to stop barbaric breeding;

I am actually shocked at breeders who you think are top quality breeders, I think its about time that us the pet owner that picks up the pieces; when their breeding program goes wrong starts speaking out! we are only giving a customer review of the service we were given from our purchaser !!

I am sick and tired of reading my breeder is still breeding bad lines and with Bad Hip Scores/no Scores no papers, I am no longer prepared to sit back and let these BYB yes BYB get away with riping us pet owners off, I am appalled and ashamed off a lot; actually thousands of breeders some accredited breeders claiming they are doing everything correctly, you know who you are ..............

A lot of pet owners who have defected/not fit for purpose; do not know there rights regarding the sale of goods act, *and it seems that a lot of breeders do not know when they sell any puppy they are bound by The Sale of Goods Act* some breeders will try to excuse breeding from poor quality, dog and bitches that are not health tested or that carry hereditary problem by saying they are not doing it as a business but "only to keep a puppy", "only occasionally" or "only for pets". The Law of the land and in particular the Trades Description Act, quite rightly does not discriminate between backyard breeders, casual breeders and breeders, it requires everyone who sells puppies to do so within The Law and that means in cold, clinical terms producing goods (puppies) of merchandisable quality, goods that are fit for the purpose for which they are sold, ignorance is no defence in law. Breeders do not want to hear they have faulty goods so they try to scare you, by telling you to be quiet, why because 400/500/600 £££££+ plus per dog, they charge, one complaint could do a lot of damage.

some good sites that are doing everything to stop bad breeders

For Pity's Sake Ban Puppy Farming |

Puppy Love-Home

WAG - Waterside Action Group

What is Hope-UK


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## scosha37

Where can i report a BYB ? i am little concernd about someone wich keeps selling puppes seem to be every 2 weeks or month...just concerns me i have been fallowing this breeder for a while now and it getting worse..

i dont know anything about how to do it or where to go ...


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## gsdowner

Advice from Dogs Trust.

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/informat...ectapuppyfarm/

If you suspect you have found a puppy farm...

1. Without entering the property or putting yourself in any danger, get as much information about the farm as possible - the name of the farmer, phone numbers and the full address. Clip out advertisements for the farm if they appear in your local paper. Where did you first hear about the farm? How many breeds do they offer? How regularly do the ads appear? If you notice a van or truck coming and going from the farm, record the licence plate number. This information may help Dogs Trust, the RSPCA or your local authority, if a prosecution or investigation goes forward in the future.

2. Find out if the farm is licensed to breed and sell puppies by contacting your Local Authority. The licensing department of your LA will know if the farmer has been granted a license. They are the only legal licensing officials. They will also know how many breeding bitches the farm is allowed to have. They may not be very forthcoming with information, but you are allowed to lay a complaint if you think the farm is breeding irresponsibly.

3. You can also ask when the farm was last inspected and what the results of the inspection were. If you are not satisfied with the answers you are given you may lay a formal complaint about this also.

4. You are entitled to ask questions!

Who was the attending vet at the last inspection?
What was the name of the LA officer or Dog Warden who inspected the premises?
Has the farmer been keeping adequate records?
Are they aware that complaints have been made about the premises?
If it is the case, are they aware of poor conditions seen on the farm?
If it is the case, are they aware that pups bought from this breeder have fallen sick or have died?
Have other complaints been made?
What do they intend to do about them?

If Local Authority officials know people are interested in the way they conduct their licensing procedure, they may be more inclined to enforce the law more rigorously.

5. As with the information about the farmer, keep records of your conversations or correspondence with the LA or Dog Warden. It may come in handy later.

6. If you have bought a puppy from a breeder and the puppy is ill or has died, you are within your rights to get your money back and hit the farmer where it really hurts ? in the pocket! Contact your local Trading Standards Commission. You can lay a formal complaint with them and they will help you begin proceedings to recoup your money. They will also put pressure on the farmer.

Please be aware however, that as long as the puppy is still alive, you will have to return it to the farmer if they refund you.

7. You may like to make yourself familiar with the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999. You may also like to read the Animal Welfare Bill which is currently before parliament. The breeding Act currently governs the roles of local authorities in monitoring and licensing breeders. If the Animal Welfare Bill becomes law in the future, it will protect animals before any cruelty has happened.

8. Finally: be very careful. Puppy Farming has a lot on common with organised crime. There is a lot of money at stake and Puppy Farmers may do almost anything to protect their ?businesses?. Do not attempt to remove any pups from the property illegally and do not trespass on the property. The law will not be on your side.

But this doesn?t mean you can?t do something. Your local authority has an obligation to you and to the Law.
Be aware that any ?surveillance?, obstructions, repeated phone calls, or repeated requests for information may be construed as harassment by the law. Dogs Trust does not condone any activities such as this.


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## siany

This is a link to a website that lists (on the right side of the page) Outlets that have a pet shop licence to enable them to 'buy in' puppies to resell.

Worth bearing in mind before buying a pub that they could/might be from puppy farms. Never buy a pup without viewing its parents first is the most simple way to help combatt this problem.

New Puppy? PuppyAlert : Exposing puppy farms and mills - What you should know about pet shops that sell puppies


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## in2town

Puppy farms should be stopped and people should be sent to prison, it has to be stopped now


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## Tigerneko

There's a puppy farm near me.

Apparently the puppies are kept in good conditions (for a puppy farm), but they're not brought up in the home.

Their website lists 12 different breeds, as well as "many more"

Those puppies cannot be properly looked after :frown2:


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## Mark_stimpo

Hi i think puppy farming should be banned, its disgusting the thingsd the moms go through, to think there whole purpose in life is to breed and nothing else.


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## bullcrazed

Jake: My own experience
read that its awfull and the pics it makes you want to cry. i used to live near a puupy farm in lincolnshire 

**(deleted link)**

all her puppies are brought over from wales and kept in cages. one dog she has is old with one eyes


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## clueless

Jeez place is sickening. They have at least 13 litters of pups for sale at the moment


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## Tigerneko

Grr, a girl in my class went to view some puppies at **** on Sunday. She was like "aww they were well cute, some of them weren't old enough to go to their homes yet" and I was like "What were their parents like?" so she replied to me "Oh you don't get to see them, they aren't with the puppies"

...... I honestly couldn't speak to her. I tried explaining about puppy farms, and I told her to research them on the internet, but she won't.

she was saying how cute they looked in the little rooms, all jumping up at the door to get out. I was like "Yeah I think i'd want to get out if I was in there"

They don't have any outside runs, they're just kept in little rooms with wood shavings on the floor. I'm pretty sure dogs don't need wood shavings.


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## mistique57

these puppy farmers make me sick,there is also breeders selling puppies saying they are biewers yorshire terrier,they are breeding a shih tzu with a yorkie because this crossing holds a piebald gene.then breeding them till they get the color of black/white/gold and then tell the public they are a biewer,they say they are ppr reg or dlr and its a known fact that this reg is what the majority of puppy farmers use,these pedgrees and papers are made up names of anything then placed on paper as the heratage of puppies,grrrr it makes me mad.


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## Pollyanna580

Thanx for the links, these people make me so angry


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## poodlemad

i too know of this mistique you should open a new thread about these with them being th new on breed on the market to make people aware as the lady that bought one is on this site and intends to try breed them herself she is in on the circle of deceit


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## haeveymolly

Portia Elizabeth said:


> Grr, a girl in my class went to view some puppies at Nutshaw on Sunday. She was like "aww they were well cute, some of them weren't old enough to go to their homes yet" and I was like "What were their parents like?" so she replied to me "Oh you don't get to see them, they aren't with the puppies"
> 
> ...... I honestly couldn't speak to her. I tried explaining about puppy farms, and I told her to research them on the internet, but she won't.
> 
> she was saying how cute they looked in the little rooms, all jumping up at the door to get out. I was like "Yeah I think i'd want to get out if I was in there"
> 
> They don't have any outside runs, they're just kept in little rooms with wood shavings on the floor. I'm pretty sure dogs don't need wood shavings.


I attended a protest last month, at the leeds store of DOGS4US, UNBELIEVABLE we handed out leaflets to people entering the store a few sat in the car park, read it and turned round and drove straight out:thumbup: sadly there were lots that still went in and bought these puppies, yes you want to go in and buy them to get them out of the horrible situation but we would just be feeding these puppy farmers with money to keep farming.


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## marianne

It's amazing how many people don't know what a puppy mill is. My daughter Katie is a pre-vet student. She did a speech on puppy mills for her public speaking class. Some students actually asked her if they were like hamster cages with wheels! Needless to say her speech gave them the correct information. She got points taken off because she went over the time limit. I told her better to get the information out there.
There are places up north (Pennsylvannia for example) that think of dogs and puppies as livestock. Therefore they treat them horribly. Even livestock should be treated humanely! The whole concept makes up ill.


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## xxRASTAxx

These poor wee animal are just POUND SIGNS to these people. I'm really glad Bailey was alright in the end. x :nono: :nono: :nono:


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## clueless

It was so sad reading Baileys story. Bailey was one of the lucky ones getting yourself as his owner
Most that are taken back are just PTS as it would start eating into their profits if they started treating all their sick puppies.
There should be a Law against these places and the General Public really need educated.


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## in2town

A rescue home is a great place to get a dog from


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## shirleystarr

There are many puppy farms in South Wales where I live the welsh assembly gives these farmers money to actually do this ,
We have tried many ways to close them down but to no avail It makes me sick as these puppies are just locked away in little dark places no mum to keep them company the mother never sees the light of day most times never has a human touch of comfort.
I belong to Bichon Rescue and the number of dogs that i have had 
to re home most have problems and most come from these puppy farms.
I have 3 with me and this is their forever home now as all have problems and cant be re homed with anyone else.
All I can do is keep plodding on with this stupid goverment and try and do my best to stop all this


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## haeveymolly

tashi said:


> puppyalert - Puppy Alert


Is anyone attending the protest tommorrow at pets4us in leeds, i was at the last one a very peacefull protest just involves standing outside the store handing leaflets out to customers going in. Its at 1oclock


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## mummyschnauzer

In London House of Commons there is a bill going through to change the laws on Puppy Farming so if you want to e-mail your MP, follow the instructions below:-

MP John McDonnell has put forward an Early Day Motion in Parliament encouraging the Government to review the effectiveness of welfare laws with specific regard to puppy farms.

Please contact your MP and encourage them to sign this motion, your voice can make a difference.

That this House notes the continuing reports of allegations of cruelty and animal suffering associated with puppy farms; and calls upon the Government to review the effectiveness of the current procedures and legislation relating to animal safety in puppy farms.

UK Parliament - Early Day Motions By Details

You can find you MP here.

MP (TheyWorkForYou.com)


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## noushka05

i will definatly write to my MP


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## Guest

I just sent this to my MP feel free to copy and paste. It will take about 2 minutes if you click on the MP link on the other post.

I am writing to ask you to support the following Early Day Motion

Early Day Motion
EDM 1142 PUPPY FARMS20.03.2009


McDonnell, John 
That this House notes the continuing reports of allegations of cruelty and animal suffering associated with puppy farms; and calls upon the Government to review the effectiveness of the current procedures and legislation relating to animal safety in puppy farms.

My family and i feel very strongly that it is time the government took more seriously the suffering caused to puppies and breeding dogs at many of these establishments and aknowledged the need for tighter legislation.


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## noushka05

rainy said:


> I just sent this to my MP feel free to copy and paste. It will take about 2 minutes if you click on the MP link on the other post.
> 
> I am writing to ask you to support the following Early Day Motion
> 
> Early Day Motion
> EDM 1142 PUPPY FARMS20.03.2009
> 
> McDonnell, John
> That this House notes the continuing reports of allegations of cruelty and animal suffering associated with puppy farms; and calls upon the Government to review the effectiveness of the current procedures and legislation relating to animal safety in puppy farms.
> 
> My family and i feel very strongly that it is time the government took more seriously the suffering caused to puppies and breeding dogs at many of these establishments and aknowledged the need for tighter legislation.


thanx for that Rainy, i'll get my Son to do it for me(cos i'm useless!!)


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## Guest

Hope you don't mind but I have crossposted


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## candysmum

RObert Key has been emailed THats our mp i met him once Nice man.


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## Kinski

I've e-mailed my M.P., I don't hold out much hope as he's usless but I've tried.
I know a dog that came from byb and no matter how much I told the owner that that's where her pup was coming from she wouldn't listen to me, she went ahead and got him. He has cost a fortune over the years with all the medical problems he has had. I've also had the pleasure of meeting a brood bitch, it's taken quite a while for her new owner to bring her round but she's now a lovely wee soul if very very timid.

Terri


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## Guest

Found this while browsing. It might help to quote it if anyone is struggling to get RSPCA or Local authority to take note.

Puppy-trade - epetition response | Number10.gov.uk

Not a great response from the government though


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## UKHypnotherapy

gazt said:


> i never new thier were so many shops selling puppys i new of willow farm its not far from me ,this is a good thread which could warn poeple about where not to buy pups from lets hope the message spreads and puts these places out of bussiness


A friend of mine bought a puppy from *** ****, they paid a lot of money for a pet there, and were shocked at the way the farm takes care of their Business.

Puppy Farms should be stopped but it amazes me that there is not much done with these places. We need the government to bring in more powers and new laws to stop this from happening


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## berni83

I rang the RSPCA to report a suspected puppy farm on 0300 1234 999 but they won't do anything as I didn't see the living conditions of the puppy she fetched from some outhouse buildings. Absolutly rubbish.


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## in2town

tashi said:


> puppyalert - Puppy Alert


What we need on this forum is a national wall of shame of puppy farms to make people more aware of where they should be looking at to buy their pet and where they should stay well clear of


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## horsesinthesky

Puppy farms are awful places. As you all know. When i was a kid, i wanted a puppy for my birthday (Like you do as a child..) and my parents (To their defense, didnt know any better and it was spur of the moment) took me and my siblings to a puppy farm, where we got our first dog, a West Highland Terrier. Who we named Spike because he wasnt aggressive at all.(Little did we know....) He was so small,incredibly frail and quiet. The first day he didnt eat, hardly moved and just slept. My parents didnt worry at this point. The next day, he was constantly being sick and my mum returned him to the place he was bought to see what they could, and then he died later that day.  That poor little dog, had such a painful life. Be it only 5-6 weeks. I have vowed ever since, never ever to support such evil corps. All this because, he was poorly bred and was taken from his mother FAR too young. Poor chicken. RIP Spike.

But also, my family should not of bought the dog on impulse. Buying a pet is a huge responsibility, and unfortunately, we all learnt the hard way. Thats also why these puppy mills should go, people just coming buy, and wanting a dog just for his/her aesthetics.
I know im not alone in this sad, sad story.


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## UKHypnotherapy

Do you feel enough is being done to stop puppy farms, what new powers would you like to see the Government give to the RSPCA


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## sapphire123

i never new thier were so many shops selling puppys i new of willow farm its not far from me ,this is a good thread which could warn poeple about where not to buy pups from lets hope the message spreads and puts these places out of bussiness


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## kiera09

Hiya everyone! I just want to say that story is so sad, :frown5:I cant imagine what Jakes family went through, It must of been terrible.


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## lilyw75

I would!


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## susanharber

It is not only the puppies but the adult dogs as well. They breed from them until the dog is 5 years old and worn out and then get rid of them. A lot of charities take them. I adopted a 5 yr bichon and she died 2 1/2 years later of a massive stroke. I have now adopted another one. they are so frightened when you first take them but become super pets. There is a petition to the government on Pro Dogs website for anyone who would like to petition the govenrment -:thumbup:


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## SuzannePetPhotographer

Some people really need to get a grip on life. Its not all about money and its so unfair. Also the people who buy from puppy farms need to STOP! Yes its cheaper but not better. Its unfair on the family who buy from the farms and unfair for the dogs. I think there should be a law on breeding!


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## desmond

Yeah puppy farms are cruel actually.. in china dog farms are being set up for fur production..

I stumbled in this website StopHurtingAnimals.com: Help us stop cruelty to animals...

and it shows the cruelty of dog breeders especially those who are used for fur productions.

I am now an advocate and anti puppy farm.. pls support the the campaign by visiting StopHurtingAnimals.com: Help us stop cruelty to animals... and signing up to show the world that we value animals!


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## Becci-in-Hull

When I was on a quest for a puppy, I came across a lady who was selling a pug puppy (really cheap) I also came across hundreds of scammers on epupz.com, oodle.com, sunlocal.com, and a whole lot more. People were trying to scam me left right and center.

A few people sent me there so called addresses but I must of deleted them because I cant find them. However this person and address I havnt deleted so it may be worth looking into: (details have been deleted)

I am 99.9% sure this is a puppy farm of some sort because she was so avasive of quetions, said she would send me puppy if I sent her the money. I thin insisted that I come see mum and pup, so she sent these details to me. She really seems odd and if this is some sort of puppy farm I need to know that at least I have mentioned it.


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## bichonsrus

Verbatim said:


> There's a puppy farm near me. It's called Nutshaw Kennels and it's in Burnley, Lancashire.
> 
> Anyone know anything about it? Apparently the puppies are kept in good conditions (for a puppy farm), but they're not brought up in the home.
> 
> Their website lists 12 different breeds, as well as "many more"
> 
> Those puppies cannot be properly looked after :frown2:


I certainly agree that the pups can not be looked after, how can they when they not nurtured with their mum for long enough then put in some barn or kennel with the litter and left all day, i had a call for someone to come see one of my pups today, she said she had called alot of people and was amazed at the amount of people that couldnt show the pup WITH the mum! i was amazed at this also, the mum of my pups is still very much part of the puppies daily lives and i would have it no other way!


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## xxwelshcrazyxx

I find it so distressing to watch these poor dogs in terrible conditions and the council let it go on, what is wrong with them, it shames me to say I am welsh. And people still go buying puppies from these people with out seeing the mother and the place they sleep and ask questions and having good answers. I would only buy from a place that looks clean tidy and have the breeder ask me lots of questions and willing to be asked questions. But then again these back yard breeders and farmers are very accute, they know how to make a house look clean and tidy, so people like us dont suspect foul play. They are heartless b*****ds. I reported a man who i suspected of over breeding and he was done for it. Good enough....(but not enough). It is heart rendering to watch these films but it is a good idea as it make people realise what these poor dogs have to go through so they can buy one of these puppies.


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## flufffluff39

Theres a programme on tonight about puppy farms  Looks like its gonna be very upsetting to watch..but they do have to expose these people through every medium they can and hopefully stop them!!


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## Debbiehut

May i put a few words in on this page?
Puppy farming, produces the most horrific living conditions for these dogs and puppys, Bitches have poor eyes, ears sores up their noses, can not turn round or able to walk backwards. they have skin infections and very nervous off every thing.!
They produce freak puppys so dont always think that the Bitches only have normal looking pups THEY DONT!
Many suffer the most painful births, in filth ridden conditions.
If we stop buying puppys from people with long coded numbers and can not see the mother and the living conditions that they are living in.........
Many many more of these dogs are sentensed to die in the cruiest of deaths.
xxxxxxx


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## dogma_girl

It's disgraceful. A horrible situation to be born into, but so much worse for the dams who are condemned to a hellish life. 

Do you think that compassion for animals can be taught? If people grow up with pets around them, I can't imagine them inflicting this kind of cruelty. It's only by objectifying these dogs - or commodifying them, I guess - that it's possible to behave in this way.

I'd be interested in hearing what the rest of you think.

Best - Ro and Lo


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## Laureng05

Ive just started a site to raise the awareness of puppy farms and also have a petition going if you are ineterested

Laurens World

Ban puppy farms in the Uk Petition : [ powered by iPetitions.com ]

Thanks Guys


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## Laureng05

I think its sick, did anyone see the Rogue Traders programme, the man on there was unbelievable at the farm. Crazy man!

Ive got a petition going if anyone is interested. I have a paper one in my vet practce where i work which has ALOT of signatures on it now so i strated an online one aswell and will put them together.
PLease sign it if you think puppy farmign should be stopped. I will send it to the prime minister and the welsh assembly government. I will copy it and continue to send it until they reply.

I also have a website to try and help raise the awareness of puppy farms.

Feel free to have a look and leave any comments about how you think i can improve the site.

I only set it up 2 weeks ago so it is still under construction.

Petition - Ban puppy farms in the Uk Petition : [ powered by iPetitions.com ]

Site - Laurens World


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## kelseye

i watched a thing on tv about fur and it was sick it made me cringe its such a shame how f**ked this world is and what people thinks ok to do to others
did anyone else see it ?


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## canuckjill

Just makes me sick. It really does seem like the Amish and Mexican Mennonites have alot of these auctions. Wish we could get the law changed so dogs and cats are not treated as livestock....Nothing against the Amish or Mexican Mennonites that are not involved with this by the way, I feel the same about all people that do this type of thing. In the mid west US just seems to be alot of the above.....Jill


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## kitty 333

God it makes me so mad, iv got a ex breeding bitch yorkie she had never been out for a walk slept on a soft blanket or had any love ,she is an angel . Have a look on the many tears qeb site they have lots ot ex breeding dogs.


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## Tawny

This topic makes very sad reading and is a subject close to my heart. Does anybody remember a TV prog called Thats Life? , along with the funny stories they featured a serious bit.I appeared on that programme with my horror story about a puppy farm in Kent where I lived in the early 80's.Within 10 minutes of the programme ending my telephone started ringing as people traced me through the phone book to tell of similar experiences, To cut a long story short I bought a Yorkie complete with "pedigree" from a local man-- turns out he was a scum puppy farmer and the Thats Life investigation revealed more horror than I ever thought possible. Needeless to say my Yorkie, Posy, died a terrible death soon after purchase.I am not naive and always have been a responsible pet owner who would never knowingly go to a farmer, but this silver tongued con man fooled me.To this day I hate his guts for his cruelty and still carry a photo of Posy and have a lock of her hair.Anything which helps drive these despicable money grubbers out of business can only be good.
Tawny


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## zturtilli

Poor dogs... By looking in their eyes, I can feel the sadness too...


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## RachyBobs

I see alot on pet adveritisng sites, with the same person breeding several cross breeds and selling them for £400 each. There was one lady selling 7 different breeds of puppies at the same time! That to me = farming! You would do it other wise!!


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## dabrain

hello ppl,just wonderin if anyone no's of any puppy farms in N.Ireland? as im looking a new pug pup and dont fancy geting a pup from one of them,as the free adds is full of ppl that will meet ya in a certain place to sell ya a pup,am just after some safe advice as to who or what to avoid thx


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## borderterriers

Hi Dabrain,
Never buy a puppy from someone who wants to meet you somewhere. They are usually scammers or puppy farmers. Always research the breed you want and look for a good breeder. The kennel club have a list of breeders. Always make sure you ask plenty of questions about the parents and the pup. Never buy a puppy without seeing at least the mother, both parents if possible. If you don't feel happy with the puppy, mother, breeder etc then walk away. And never buy from a pet store as they are almost certain to be from puppy farms. Hope I have been of some help. Good luck with your search for your new puppy.


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## Indie

borderterriers said:


> Hi Dabrain,
> Never buy a puppy from someone who wants to meet you somewhere. They are usually scammers or puppy farmers. Always research the breed you want and look for a good breeder. The kennel club have a list of breeders. Always make sure you ask plenty of questions about the parents and the pup. Never buy a puppy without seeing at least the mother, both parents if possible. If you don't feel happy with the puppy, mother, breeder etc then walk away. And never buy from a pet store as they are almost certain to be from puppy farms. Hope I have been of some help. Good luck with your search for your new puppy.


i can vouch for that we made that boo boo


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## krazyman7

i hate puppy farms!!

so un-natural


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## RAINYBOW

Support The Dogs Trust national campaign against battery farmed puppies

Dogs Trust - Battery Farmed Dogs Campaign (Puppy Farming)

Here is a printable poster for public display if anyone wants to

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/_resources/resources/posters09/posterpuppy09.pdf


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## stigDarley

gsdowner said:


> There is a lot of work going on to try and stop these puppy farms/bad breeders, you can help by signing the petitions and downloading the posters from many of the forums that are working hard to bring in new legislation's to stop barbaric breeding;
> 
> I am actually shocked at breeders who you think are top quality breeders, I think its about time that us the pet owner that picks up the pieces; when their breeding program goes wrong starts speaking out! we are only giving a customer review of the service we were given from our purchaser !!
> 
> I am sick and tired of reading my breeder is still breeding bad lines and with Bad Hip Scores/no Scores no papers, I am no longer prepared to sit back and let these BYB yes BYB get away with riping us pet owners off, I am appalled and ashamed off a lot; actually thousands of breeders some accredited breeders claiming they are doing everything correctly, you know who you are ..............
> 
> A lot of pet owners who have defected/not fit for purpose; do not know there rights regarding the sale of goods act, *and it seems that a lot of breeders do not know when they sell any puppy they are bound by The Sale of Goods Act* some breeders will try to excuse breeding from poor quality, dog and bitches that are not health tested or that carry hereditary problem by saying they are not doing it as a business but "only to keep a puppy", "only occasionally" or "only for pets". The Law of the land and in particular the Trades Description Act, quite rightly does not discriminate between backyard breeders, casual breeders and breeders, it requires everyone who sells puppies to do so within The Law and that means in cold, clinical terms producing goods (puppies) of merchandisable quality, goods that are fit for the purpose for which they are sold, ignorance is no defence in law. Breeders do not want to hear they have faulty goods so they try to scare you, by telling you to be quiet, why because 400/500/600 £££££+ plus per dog, they charge, one complaint could do a lot of damage.
> 
> some good sites that are doing everything to stop bad breeders
> 
> For Pity's Sake Ban Puppy Farming |
> 
> Puppy Love-Home
> 
> WAG - Waterside Action Group
> 
> What is Hope-UK


We own a Pet shop in Preston and we totally disgusted by some of the breeds we've come across. So to try and help thegood guys that do actually care don't over breed there animals and feed good quality food. We give them a permant discount to help make there life easier.... its not alot but if we all try and do our bit.....


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## Hennish

One of my friends was given a dog, she was fine when I met her but my friend said she had lived in a box all her life before that, just making puppies,and my friend was given her because all her puppies died :crying: Thanks for all the posts the guide to selling from puppy farms really shocked me!


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## StBernardMummy

It's so sad that people do this for money not taking into consideration the dogs they are breeding from and the puppies not to mention the people and their families who have to go through trying so hard to save them and the distress they are going through. 

Thank you for putting this information up and I will make sure if anyone I know is looking for a puppy they are careful where they get them from and know what to look for


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## Danielle P

Hi,

You may also like to take a look at Puppy Love-Home


----------



## JessandAstra

Thanks for posting this and exposing these viol, profit-hungry inhumane people for what they are.


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## Annette55

I am so shocked reading all these posts we are in the process of looking for our first puppy and thought i would join a forum first i have spent all this evening reading posts and think it will be a long time till we get a pup as i have loads of research to do before finding a good breeder


----------



## mitch4

Annette55 said:


> I am so shocked reading all these posts we are in the process of looking for our first puppy and thought i would join a forum first i have spent all this evening reading posts and think it will be a long time till we get a pup as i have loads of research to do before finding a good breeder


Do you know what breed you want you could then go to the breed clubs and ask for reputable breeders on thier books


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## Annette55

there are 2 breeds, i want one and the kids another, i am reading loads as i want to make sure that the pup (I) choose is the right one for our family, i have ruled out ones that are known not to be good with children, we have an active outdoor life so want one that will enjoy long walks etc, just need to tick and cross some boxes then will be back on here to ask loads of questions. Sorry i will also post in the right place too.


----------



## Danielle P

Hi Annette,

Good luck finding a puppy. Please be careful where/who you buy from. 

Find a reptuable breeder that only breeds one breed not a number of breeds. Make sure you see the mum with the pups and the environment they were brought up in. 

There are so many dealers/puppy farms now, a lot of ads in papers and internet are these people. 

Many be an idea to contact your local breed club or breed resuce, they can point you in the right direction to find a good breeder. 

Otherwise, Dogs Trust and the Kennel Club website has information on finding a good breeder. 

Good luck


----------



## Guest

What do you do if you suspect Puppy Farming may be going on near you?


----------



## Jason2

I guess you'd call RSPCA? They're the only ones who can do something really.


----------



## Danielle P

Hi 118,

If you suspect theres a puppy farm near you or know someone who does. I suggest making a visit there (not alone) posing as a buyer and see what you find. If they have more than 4-5 bitches there, they really need a licence and its the local counil that would licence them, so you would contact them to see if they do actually have a licence, if they dont theyre breaking the law.

If they do have a licence but the conditions are poor, then you complain to the local council and the RSPCA.

If you want any advive, pm me.

You may also like to take a look at:

Puppy Love-Home


----------



## FiFi Fashions

It's incredible that so called "civilised" human beings will cause any suffering to any animal just to make money. It's very difficult not to put a few expletives in here. It's quite ironic that I've often heard the phrase "such and such a person was treated like an animal". Well maybe if animals were treated better then that wouldn't be such a bad thing,
Anthony


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## donnaj25

Can i just say thank you very much for this post.

It was very interesting and has opened my eyes.

Those poor wee puppies breaks my heart.

I am getting a westie puppy next week, but now reading this is really making me wonder.

I saw the advert in the paper, I phoned the man and he seemed really nice. I asked questions and so did he.

He said he can deliver the puppy as me or my partner dont drive and it seemed a good solution as he stays over 100 miles away from us. He was fine though in the first place about us picking the puppy up, so now after reading all this do you think I should def try and get someone to take me there?

Thanks xx


----------



## Nonnie

donnaj25 said:


> Can i just say thank you very much for this post.
> 
> It was very interesting and has opened my eyes.
> 
> Those poor wee puppies breaks my heart.
> 
> I am getting a westie puppy next week, but now reading this is really making me wonder.
> 
> I saw the advert in the paper, I phoned the man and he seemed really nice. I asked questions and so did he.
> 
> He said he can deliver the puppy as me or my partner dont drive and it seemed a good solution as he stays over 100 miles away from us. He was fine though in the first place about us picking the puppy up, so now after reading all this do you think I should def try and get someone to take me there?
> 
> Thanks xx


You should never buy a puppy without visiting it, and seeing it with its mum and siblings.

People often buy pups in from puppy farms, and pass them off as ones they have bred themselves. With a dog like the westie that can have a fair few health problems, i would be very careful.


----------



## donnaj25

Nonnie said:


> You should never buy a puppy without visiting it, and seeing it with its mum and siblings.
> 
> People often buy pups in from puppy farms, and pass them off as ones they have bred themselves. With a dog like the westie that can have a fair few health problems, i would be very careful.


Thank you

My friend is going to take me up there next week so will find out. I feel so nieve now about it all, rather stupid actually.

Its all new to me you see, the only dog I ever got before was from a rescue centre, we had him for a long time then he got very old and passed away, he was already an adult dog when we got him, before we had children.

Thank you again xxx


----------



## Danielle P

Hi Donna,

Oh my! Thank god youve changed your mind. You should always see the mum with the litter and the surroundings theyve been brought up in. 

As Nonnie said, puppy farmers often sell litters to a dealer and they sell them on as their own by delivering them, so be very careful. A lot of the puppy farm pups not only have long term serious health problems but normally havent had their first injections or been wormed. I've heard stories of them being covered in fleas and being ill abd a lot die from more serious illnesses.

Is this man in wales by any chance? If you do go there and find that they are in unsuitable conditions, dont feel sorry for them and buy one to 'save it' as buying them just means the poor mum has to have yet another litter and the breeer will carry on for years to come. 

If you go there and find anything that doesnt look right, pm me if you like and I will advise you.


----------



## donnaj25

Danielle P said:


> Hi Donna,
> 
> Oh my! Thank god youve changed your mind. You should always see the mum with the litter and the surroundings theyve been brought up in.
> 
> As Nonnie said, puppy farmers often sell litters to a dealer and they sell them on as their own by delivering them, so be very careful. A lot of the puppy farm pups not only have long term serious health problems but normally havent had their first injections or been wormed. I've heard stories of them being covered in fleas and being ill abd a lot die from more serious illnesses.
> 
> Is this man in wales by any chance? If you do go there and find that they are in unsuitable conditions, dont feel sorry for them and buy one to 'save it' as buying them just means the poor mum has to have yet another litter and the breeer will carry on for years to come.
> 
> If you go there and find anything that doesnt look right, pm me if you like and I will advise you.


Thank you Danielle,

After researching a lot on the net and with thanks to you lovely owners on here I have learned just so much about it all.

I feel pretty daft if this guy is a con man and all I want is a lovely little dog for me and my kids to love and make part of our family.

My partner is actually pretty impressed at how much I am learning, but it seems I need to with all the things going on, I just can't believe what people will do! Don't they realise they are messing about with little lives, poor wee things.

My friend is taking us on tuesday to this guys house, he is phoning me tonight so if he is a bit shifty about not wanting us to come or something doesn't sound right, I am going to call it off. I just want to find the perfect pet.

When I talked to him at first, he was totally fine about me coming to him to get the pup, it was me that said in the paper it said about that he could deliver depends on where.

But def going there to see. If I see the parents (he said the parents were his pets) and if all looks well I will be happy, if I have any suspicions will def not take the pup even if I feel sorry for the wee thing.

Thank you again everyone you are all fantastic!


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## donnaj25

Right new dilema lol

I talked to the man who we are getting the puppy from and told him we would pick the puppy up, he was more than happy for me to do that. He said I would be welcome to come up and see the parents, as they are both his pet dogs. 

He said he would meet us half way if we wanted as it is a 3 hour drive and we would have to leave at 5pm, but I said no we will just come to his house. Which he had no problem with. 

The only thing that alerted me is that he lives on a farm. I mean I know people who are farmers dogs will have puppies, but reading all this about puppy farms are starting to freak me out. 

What do you guys think? Dodgey or do you think he will be fine?


----------



## Danielle P

Hi Donna,

Just explain you want to go to his house to see the dogs. 

Living on a farm could be a coincidence but a lot of 'breeders' do live on farms. I am more concerned that he has both parents, puppy farmers will always have both parents and backyard breeders usually have both parent too. Whereas show breeders will usually have the bitch but hunt high and low to find a good/champion stud. 

If this is the only two adult dogs he has then I'd say fine but if he has a number of other dogs of all different breeds then I'd definately say no. Are the pups KC registered and what breed is it anyway? 

and where does this bloke live?


----------



## donnaj25

Hi there, 

Thanks for the advice I decided not to go for it and we got a little jack russell pup from someone we trusted, well someone they know very well and it has worked out fine, saw the parents (they were both the pets) house was very clean and dog friendly if that sounds possible lol you could just see they loved and took care of their dogs and house very well. All in all we made the right decision. 

Ok we never got the westie that we wanted, but our little JR pup is fantastic and glad we made the choice to see her. 

The first night was ok, she didn't cry, just slept a lot, last night was fine, but cheeky girl played a lot lol, but she didn't chew anything or destroy anything just played with her toys.

Doing good so far with toilet training, she has been going on the paper all the time at first of course a couple of accidents, but now she is doing really well. 

So pleased with her xxx


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## GillyR

Brill post - puppie farms need to be stamped out.


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## Danielle P

Hi Donna, 

Thats brilliant news. Glad youve got a little pup, sounds adorable.


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## kdlang

Hi, I was just window shopping on the preloved website when I came across some adverts that set off alarm bells. The same member has 6 adverts on the site. One selling some adult male Old English sheepdogs due to a supposed relationship breakdown, one selling lab pups, one offering the services of a black lab for stud, and 3 wanted ads one each for golden retriever, standard poodle and chocolate newfoundland.

I'm guessing they are some kind of breeder. I am not looking for a puppy but is there any way i can report this or stop the ads. I don't think i am brave enough to respond to the adverts to check it out, they would probably see me coming a mile off.


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## Danielle P

Hi KDLang,

Yes, youre right. This person is probably and should be a licenced breeder. 
Which means they are not 'legally' doing anything wrong. 

The only two things I can suggest is:

Email the website showing your concern and asking them if they think breeding for profit is ok and point out your concerns. Maybe they will agree to stop the ad. Although I doubt it!

The other thing, you could reply to the advert, say youre intrerested in pup. Get their name and address (as if you were arranging a visit) and then speak to the local council to find out if they are licenced, if they are theres nothing much you can do. If theyre not then they are breaking the law and can be prosecuted. 

Although these people are clever, they will probably be doing everything by the book and there wont be anything you can do, unfortunately. 

Let me know how you get on.


----------



## Plabebob

Danielle P said:


> Hi KDLang,
> 
> Yes, youre right. This person is probably and should be a licenced breeder.
> Which means they are not 'legally' doing anything wrong.
> 
> The only two things I can suggest is:
> 
> Email the website showing your concern and asking them if they think breeding for profit is ok and point out your concerns. Maybe they will agree to stop the ad. Although I doubt it!
> 
> The other thing, you could reply to the advert, say youre intrerested in pup. Get their name and address (as if you were arranging a visit) and then speak to the local council to find out if they are licenced, if they are theres nothing much you can do. If theyre not then they are breaking the law and can be prosecuted.
> 
> Although these people are clever, they will probably be doing everything by the book and there wont be anything you can do, unfortunately.
> 
> Let me know how you get on.


A while back one of the administrators from Gumtree was on here & they have a very extensive policy regarding complaints about pet adverts & possible animal abuse/puppy farming. They take complaints very seriously, & as these sites run in similar way I would definitely report it - they should at least scout out the advert poster & even if they are registered & technically legal the advert can still be taken down as they don't want to be associated with that kind of behaviour.


----------



## Danielle P

Hi Bob,

Thats great to hear and very refreshing as most of these sites (most well known for these type of adverts) are fully aware that these breeders are advertsing multiple litters but dont give a damn. All they care about is the money they make from the adverts. 

Gumtree is free to advertise isnt it? Maybe thats why they arent motivated by money and not afraid to throw people off there, unlike other sites. Well Done to Gumtree!!


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## kdlang

Hi, Thanks for the replies. Preloved is also a free to advertise site and they have guidelines on there about buying a puppy and avoiding traffickers so maybe I will get somewhere with them.

First off I will email the seller and see if I can get a name and address. Do you think I would sound more plausible by enquiring about the Old English adults or the lab pups?


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## Danielle P

Hi,

Uh, I think the pups, as people are always after puppies!! 

Good luck, let me know how you get on. 

Obviously you cant post names etc on here. Once youve got a name and address pm me if you like. 

Danielle


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## jakekennels

How do you know there is a puppy farm? i have never come across one.


----------



## Danielle P

Hi Jake,

Do you mean, what is a puppy farm.

It is a breeder who is licenced to breed more than 5 litters a year. A puppy farmer is someone who breeds for profit. Not all licenced breeders are the same, but the most certainly in carmarthen are the below.

They are usually farms in rural locations.
They have anything between 10-50 breeding bitches!
They are licenced by the local council
Dogs are kept in garages, sheds, barns
They are kept in small spaces
They are not excercised or socialised
of course they are not loved or given any toys
They have little vet treatment
They are kept in the dark
They are bred every 6 months from the age of 1 onwards
They are disposed of after they are no longer able to breed
They are normally starving
They do not have fresh water
They are riddled with worms and fleas
They have no beds to lie on
Some are deaf or blind

for more information take a look at http://www.dogs-r-us.org


----------



## tomas weber

I never even considered getting a dog from a breeder or anywhere other than a rescue shelter, seems pointless (unless you want a specifics show dog or something) to allow so many people to keep breeding and breeding with no regard to where the puppies will end up later in their lives


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## davehyde

i wanted a specific breed as a puppy from a scource i trusted.

nuff said really, old rehashed argument.


----------



## petcoach

My dog was used for breeding, before the RSPCA rehomed her. Why do people buy puppies from puppy farms? Because they make up their minds they want a cute puppy and want it now! The trouble is that proper breeders are few and far between so people turn to online sales sites and gamble with the people advertising on there. A lot lose their money, or believe it when they are told that the owner has moved so they cannot see the puppy with its mother. They know where the dogs come from but in this instant society they don't ask any questions. It is terribly sad to see what being a breeding machine does to a dog's body. 
Sue T.


----------



## Joolz1975

We have been researching getting a puppy for ages and have visited a few breeders! One place really obviously stuck out as been a puppy farm , though I have to say prob not one of the worst!

We turned up unnanounced as I already had my doubts and was pleasently surprised to see the dogs were clean, happy and all looked healthy! They had acres of field where they were allowed to play, whilst we were their the labs were out having a play and were all friendly and fussy!

All pups were with mum and all were very clean and looked ok!

The people were knowledgable and advised us what breed would suit us and actually said they wouldn't sell us a beagle pup as didn't think we were experienced enough for one!

However the sheer volume of pups been bred really worried me! They bred at least a dozen different breeds and must have had at least ten litters of pups available! 

I had a weak moment when I saw a gorgous choc roan cocker but hubby was having none if it!

All in all it wasn't the worst place that a pup could be bought from as they seemed really healthy and not as bad as some places I've seen but I would bit buy from them, infact as times gone on I've realised what a mistake it would have been to buy from them!!

They were overpriced and would rather one the pockets of a reputable breeder than a place obviously just in it for the profit!


----------



## Danielle P

Well done Joolz!! :thumbup:

Its good to hear that there are a small number of puppy farmers thats try to look after the dogs and pups but they are bred purely for profit and not to better the breed etc. 

As you said, youve just be filling their pockets and the money would be better going to a reptuable caring breeding who is concerned about their breed not just breeding any breed just to make money. 

Down with puppy farms


----------



## Joolz1975

Danielle P said:


> Well done Joolz!! :thumbup:
> 
> Its good to hear that there are a small number of puppy farmers thats try to look after the dogs and pups but they are bred purely for profit and not to better the breed etc.
> 
> As you said, youve just be filling their pockets and the money would be better going to a reptuable caring breeding who is concerned about their breed not just breeding any breed just to make money.
> 
> Down with puppy farms


The breeder im getting mine from only breeds when she wants a new pup for showing.

Shes is way cheaper than some of the ones ive seen advertised and offers a life time of support and guarentees to take the dog back if in any reason in future why we cant keep it (wont happen)


----------



## Danielle P

Sounds Good Joolz, depending on what bred it is. Make sure she does all the nessessary health tests on the parents. 

Theres so many pups with hereditary problems now.


----------



## Joolz1975

Danielle P said:


> Sounds Good Joolz, depending on what bred it is. Make sure she does all the nessessary health tests on the parents.
> 
> Theres so many pups with hereditary problems now.


Its a Cocker and yes the parents are health checked so all good!

Cant wait, my pup isnt even born yet! got my fingers crossed for a golden boy out of the litter!


----------



## emily 20

how can you tell where one is??


----------



## Danielle P

Where what is Emily, a puppy farm?

Are you looking for a puppy.

Generall you can tell its a puppy farming when,

They have a number of different breeds for sale
They have a number of litters at the same time
The pups are kept outside in sheds/barns
They offer delivery
The pups are cheaper then usual
They are not KC reg

Most of all, if youre looking for a puppy, see the pup with its mother and litter and dont believe any lies the breeder gives you about not being able to see the mum because shes ill or at the vets!
Dont meet them at a services and dont let them come to you. 
The pups should appear happy and healthy, they should be pleased to see people and shouldnt have fleas, weepy eyes, nose etc.

Take a look at Home to see what a puppy farm looks like

If youre looking for a puppy, a good website that only advertisers reptuable breeders litters is: Perfect Pup


----------



## lozb

I've heard & read lots about Puppy farms and it makes me very, very sad.
And then I get Baxters 'papers' out to check over them and see he was originally from...... Dogs4us 
And only bought from there on the 3rd May - he came to us on the 14th May...from his first home because they didn't have time for him....
He was born on the 27th November.
Which makes me think - what attention/play/training/love/interaction did he get from November - May?? None? :frown: 
I'm feeling quite puddled now.. I mean, he's a fantastic dog, loving, playful, happy... but what on earth was his start in life like? And, should I be worried about it?


----------



## Danielle P

Hi Loz,

Sorry to hear about your pup.

Yes, Dogs 4 U do get their pups from 'LICENCED' breeders in Carmarthen (puppy farmers)

This is a classic exapmle of why pet shops shouldnt exsist, the first owners bought it on a whim and if it was a reptuable breeder, that wouldnt happen, so already the poor pup has been messed around, being driven from the wales to manchester/leeds, then one home, now another.

It has missed its vital stage of learning, socialisation etc. The whole time he should have been experiencing all the new sights and sounds he was stuck in a glass pen.

What breed is it Loz, Im assuming its something small as thats what type of breeds are common in puppy farms.

Didnt the first owners tell you that they had bought him from there, where did they tell you that they got it from?

You shouldnt have a problem, as long as you get him out around children and dogs as much as possible it should be fine.

I mean even puppy farmed bitches after 6 years of torture always make good dogs and are usually fine with people and dogs, so I wouldnt worry.

Good luck. Please do as much as you can to spread the word about puppy farms and dogs4u.

Also, have you been to vets. Id get him checked over.

Good luck

Home


----------



## lozb

Danielle P said:


> Hi Loz,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your pup.
> 
> Yes, Dogs 4 U do get their pups from 'LICENCED' breeders in Carmarthen (puppy farmers)
> 
> This is a classic exapmle of why pet shops shouldnt exsist, the first owners bought it on a whim and if it was a reptuable breeder, that wouldnt happen, so already the poor pup has been messed around, being driven from the wales to manchester/leeds, then one home, now another.
> 
> It has missed its vital stage of learning, socialisation etc. The whole time he should have been experiencing all the new sights and sounds he was stuck in a glass pen.
> 
> What breed is it Loz, Im assuming its something small as thats what type of breeds are common in puppy farms.
> 
> Didnt the first owners tell you that they had bought him from there, where did they tell you that they got it from?
> 
> You shouldnt have a problem, as long as you get him out around children and dogs as much as possible it should be fine.
> 
> I mean even puppy farmed bitches after 6 years of torture always make good dogs and are usually fine with people and dogs, so I wouldnt worry.
> 
> Good luck. Please do as much as you can to spread the word about puppy farms and dogs4u.
> 
> Also, have you been to vets. Id get him checked over.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> Home


Thanks Danielle 
He's a Golden Retriever... And yes, we took him to the vets for a check-up the day after we got him, thankfully he got the 'all clear' - though he did have fleas (not picked up by the vet... I picked 3 fleas off him when we got back! Had bought some advocate from them so put it on him straight away).
The family I got him from didn't say much to be honest - they gave me an envelope with his papers, reciepts, micro-chip & vac info and that was it, pretty much. And yes, the original breeder was in Wales. 

He is great with my daughter and is learning to be good with the other dogs we meet - he just wants to play with them, which, being a big pup can annoy smaller dogs but we're getting that in check...

I think he's a resilliant boy - considering the start he's had. He sleeps in the kitchen at night now, not a peep. Hardly any accidents in the house now. Is learning commands & tricks. He's a very happy puppy - is a absolute joy to have around. Best image yesterday, my daughter walking him home, running down the lane together, both happy (if she'd have had a tail it would have wagged in-sync, I'm sure)

It's an eye-opener and whilst I was aware of puppy farms before I feel quite shocked to have been brought so close to them  Luckily for Baxter, this is his permanent home and he'll live here happily for the rest of his life. I'm just saddened for the bitches and other dogs involved in this nasty business.


----------



## tashi

lozb said:


> Thanks Danielle
> He's a Golden Retriever... And yes, we took him to the vets for a check-up the day after we got him, thankfully he got the 'all clear' - though he did have fleas (not picked up by the vet... I picked 3 fleas off him when we got back! Had bought some advocate from them so put it on him straight away).
> The family I got him from didn't say much to be honest - they gave me an envelope with his papers, reciepts, micro-chip & vac info and that was it, pretty much. And yes, the original breeder was in Wales.
> 
> He is great with my daughter and is learning to be good with the other dogs we meet - he just wants to play with them, which, being a big pup can annoy smaller dogs but we're getting that in check...
> 
> I think he's a resilliant boy - considering the start he's had. He sleeps in the kitchen at night now, not a peep. Hardly any accidents in the house now. Is learning commands & tricks. He's a very happy puppy - is a absolute joy to have around. Best image yesterday, my daughter walking him home, running down the lane together, both happy (if she'd have had a tail it would have wagged in-sync, I'm sure)
> 
> It's an eye-opener and whilst I was aware of puppy farms before I feel quite shocked to have been brought so close to them  Luckily for Baxter, this is his permanent home and he'll live here happily for the rest of his life. I'm just saddened for the bitches and other dogs involved in this nasty business.


So sorry you have fallen prey to these people, Baxter is so lucky to have found a home with you, it sickens us this end to see these pups and bitches put through the lives they lead. As a club we rescued no end of bitches AND litters of puppies from these places, what they threatened to do to them if we didnt collect them doesnt bare thinking about. Good luck to you and Baxter if you want any info on the dogs in his pedigree pm me with his registered name or that of his parents


----------



## Danielle P

Hi Loz,

Sounds idilic  Hes very luck to have found you, thankfully. Its just unfortunate that his mum and dad are still at the hands of the puppy farmer 

Is the breeders name on the paperwork? They may be known to us. 

He sounds like any ordinary pup to be honest, hes going to be big and strong, I have bullmastiffs and they want to play with every dog they meet too! Its just getting him socialised and around other dogs as much as poss. 

Maybe, take him to a ringcraft where he can meet lots of other dogs.

I was volunteering at a rescue the other week that rescues puppy farm dogs and there was a 2 yr old golden retiever there and he was lovely, very friendly. 

You shouldnt have any problems, let just hope he stays in good health. 



Good luck :thumbup:


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## jardine

hello, has anyone heard of a breeder in ireland called william smyth ?, my husband bought me a landseer newfoundland a few months ago and signed the pedigree so she could go in my name, ive just been looking at her pedigree and am very worried shes come from a puppy farm.


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## petcoach

If there is one thing that makes me absolutely furious is the idea that people will use dogs as breeding machines for huge profits. My own dog Hannah was used that way, and the experience ravaged her little body. It is heartbreaking to see.

There is another side to this problem, however. As a petcoach I talk to people who have lost a pet and want to acquire another. On occasion they want to buy a particular breed but it takes an awful lot of work to find a breeder, to check they are KC registered, and then you have to wait for weeks until the puppies are ready. If someone says to them they know someone who is breeding poodles, for example, they will go there rather than go to the trouble of finding a registered breeder. 

You have only got to look on the free sites like Gumtree and Vivastreet to see warnings from people who have paid for a dog and later found it was a scam. Why did they risk their money to buy a dog, which if it existed probably came from a puppy farm? Because it is so difficult to locate the breed you want to buy, when you want to buy it.

That said, I love my Staffie / Mastiff x who was rescued by the RSPCA from a puppy farm and we often wonder about the people who bought her puppies thinking they were Mastiffs, only to find they are Staffie crosses. She is a wonderful dog and I always recommend my local rehoming kennels, but if we could stop people buying from puppy farms then there would be no trade.


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## Danielle P

jardine said:


> hello, has anyone heard of a breeder in ireland called william smyth ?, my husband bought me a landseer newfoundland a few months ago and signed the pedigree so she could go in my name, ive just been looking at her pedigree and am very worried shes come from a puppy farm.


Hi,

Why did he buy from Ireland. I dont suppose you/he sactually saw the pup with the litter and the mum and I assume they delivered it to you, if so yes it sounds like a puppy farm to me.

You havent really got anythnig to worry about, if its a happy healthy puppy , there isnt really a problem


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## Danielle P

petcoach said:


> If there is one thing that makes me absolutely furious is the idea that people will use dogs as breeding machines for huge profits. My own dog Hannah was used that way, and the experience ravaged her little body. It is heartbreaking to see.
> 
> There is another side to this problem, however. As a petcoach I talk to people who have lost a pet and want to acquire another. On occasion they want to buy a particular breed but it takes an awful lot of work to find a breeder, to check they are KC registered, and then you have to wait for weeks until the puppies are ready. If someone says to them they know someone who is breeding poodles, for example, they will go there rather than go to the trouble of finding a registered breeder.
> 
> You have only got to look on the free sites like Gumtree and Vivastreet to see warnings from people who have paid for a dog and later found it was a scam. Why did they risk their money to buy a dog, which if it existed probably came from a puppy farm? Because it is so difficult to locate the breed you want to buy, when you want to buy it.
> 
> That said, I love my Staffie / Mastiff x who was rescued by the RSPCA from a puppy farm and we often wonder about the people who bought her puppies thinking they were Mastiffs, only to find they are Staffie crosses. She is a wonderful dog and I always recommend my local rehoming kennels, but if we could stop people buying from puppy farms then there would be no trade.


Hi Petcoach,

I know what you mean. If people stopped buying, puppy farming wouldnt exsist.

We are trying constantly to make people aware. Im part of an online community dedicated to put an end to puppy farming, take a look

Home


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## BigBearsRule

I sat and read this post and them went on to read all the linked websites. I sobbed, whilst reading about the poor unfortunate creatures bed in these place. Why oh why cant we find a way to stop this.


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## Danielle P

I know, Bigbears. The first time I searched for 'puppy farms' on Google. I came across Puppy Loves website and I watched all the videos and broke my heart ans I still do everytime I watch similar/new ones now. 

Since then Ive been an active member, orgnaising protests, petitions, events etc. 

Theres not gonig to be a change in the law for a long time so all we can do in the meantime is try ourselves to make it stop, spread the word, tell everyone you know. 

If youre on FB, I have a group called 'stop puppy farming' and please feel free to take a look around the forum on Puppy Love.


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## jardine

my husband bought her for me from a man in manchester who said they bought her as a pup but could not cope with her, he did not realise she had an irish pedigree. I would never buy a puppy knowingly from a puppy farm.


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## Danielle P

Hi Jardnie, 

Unfortunately, I would personally say yes she is from a puppy farm. 

Strange how the bloke lived in Manchester, as thats where theres a Dogs4u and they get their pups from puppy farms in Ireland aswell as Wales, so it all seems a bit of a coincidence.


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## SarahMoorhouse

I watched an episode of Dog Whisperer last night were he was visiting a puppy farm and it made me cry the conditions that these puppies are kept in breaks my heart.

They managed to pursued the owner to give up 12 of them. Defiatly worth while watching if you get the chance


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## Danielle P

Story of a puppy farmed dog. very hard hitting, feel free to pass on.

I don't remember much from the place I was born. It was cramped and dark, and we were never played with by the humans. I remember Mom and her soft fur, but she was often sick, and very thin. She had hardly any milk for me and my brothers and sisters. I remember many of them dying, and I missed them so.

I do remember the day I was taken from Mom. I was so sad and scared, my milk teeth had only just come in, and I really should have been with Mom still, but she was so sick, and the Humans kept saying that they wanted money and were sick of the "mess" that me and my sister made. So we were crated up and taken to a strange place. Just the two of us. We huddled together and were scared, still no human hands came to pet or love us.

So many sights and sounds, and smells! We are in a store where there are many different animals! Some that squawk! some that meow! Some that Peep! My sister and I are jammed into a small cage, I hear other puppies here. I see humans look at me, I like the 'little humans', the kids. they look so sweet, and fun, like they would play with me!

All day we stay in the small cage, sometimes mean people will hit the glass and frighten us, every once in a while we are taken out to be held or shown to humans. Some are gentle, some hurt us, we always hear "Aw they are So cute! I want one!" but we never get to go with any.

My sister died last night, when the store was dark. I lay my head on her soft fur and felt the life leave her small thin body. I had heard them say she was sick, and that I should be sold at a "discount price" so that I would quickly leave the store. I think my soft whine was the only one that mourned for her as her body was taken out of the cage in the morning and dumped.

Today, a family came and bought me! Oh happy day! They are a nice family, they really, really wanted me! They had bought a dish and food and the little girl held me so tenderly in her arms. I love her so much! The mom and dad say what a sweet and good puppy I am! I am named Angel. I love to lick my new humans!

The family takes such good care of me, they are loving and tender and sweet. They gently teach me right and wrong, give me good food, and lots of love! I want only to please these wonderful people! I love the little girl and I enjoy running and playing with her.

Today I went to the veterinarian. it was a strange place and I was frightened. I got some shots, but my best friend the little girl held me softly and said it would be OK. So I relaxed. The Vet must have said sad words to my beloved family, because they looked awfully sad. I heard Severe hip dysplasia, and something about my heart... I heard the vet say something about back yard breeders and my parents not being tested. I know not what any of that means, just that it hurts me to see my family so sad. But they still love me, and I still love them very much!

I am 6 months old now. Where most other puppies are robust and rowdy, it hurts me terribly just to move. The pain never lets up. It hurts to run and play with my beloved little girl, and I find it hard to breath. I keep trying my best to be the strong pup I know I am supposed to be, but it is so hard. It breaks my heart to see the little girl so sad, and to hear the Mom and Dad talk about "it might now be the time". Several times I have went to that veterinarians place, and the news is never good. Always talk about Congenital Problems. I just want to feel the warm sunshine and run, and play and nuzzle with my family.

Last night was the worst, Pain has been my constant companion now, it hurts even to get up and get a drink. I try to get up but can only whine in pain. I am taken in the car one last time. Everyone is so sad, and I don't know why. Have I been bad? I try to be good and loving, what have I done wrong? Oh if only this pain would be gone! If only I could soothe the tears of the little girl. I reach out my muzzle to lick her hand, but can only whine in pain.

The veterinarians table is so cold. I am so frightened. The humans all hug and love me, they cry into my soft fur. I can feel their love and sadness. I manage to lick softly their hands. Even the vet doesn't seem so scary today. he is gentle and I sense some kind of relief for my pain. The little girl holds me softly and I thank her, for giving me all her love. I feel a soft pinch in my foreleg. The pain is beginning to lift, I am beginning to feel a peace descend upon me. I can now softly lick her hand. My vision is becoming dreamlike now, and I see my Mother and my brothers and sisters, in a far off green place. They tell me there is no pain there, only peace and happiness. I tell the family, good-bye in the only way I know how, a soft wag of my tail and a nuzzle of my nose. I had hoped to spend many, many moons with them, but it was not meant to be. "You see," said the veterinarian, "Pet shop puppies do not come from ethical breeders."

The pain ends now, and I know it will be many years until I see my beloved family again. If only things could have been different.


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## butttons

tashi said:


> puppyalert - Puppy Alert


Dogs 4 Us Bramley , Leeds, West yorkshire

Its a clinical clean place that sell just about every breed that you wish!

The breeding bitches that produce these litters are kept in disgusting conditions & have never see the light of day!

Why would anyone buy a pup from a puppy supermarket!


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## Tobymum

If anyone would like to help spread the word you will find very informative leaflets to print off her Posters


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## Hazelvalley

I am a dog breeder myself this is my first litter but I am taking every step I can to ensure that my puppies grow up happy well adjusted dogs who are a benfit to society. I have spent over £2,500 ensuring that the puppies have the best of everything. I could never treat a puppy badly and I ensure people who buy my puppies will look after them and love them like I do.

What I am writing about is I got chatting to a local dog walker who told me that their is a puppy farm opening in st Helens Merseyside, it is in planning stages at the minute, she is coming around to my house tomorrow so will get more detail but they plan on having 200dogs!!!!!!:eek6: So I will be submitting a block on these plans, what made the dog walker nearly keel over was the woman who is opening it Dad said could she help her sell the puppies on her Dog walking website which she has declined to do!


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## barniesowner

I think i and our new pup have fallen prey to these awful people, i bought a new pup 3 weeks ago and so far have spent over 500 pound to get him well ony to be told he may need to be euthanised, im hoping not, we saw him advertised on-line and tried to arrange to go to see pup, but the guy said he likes to bring the pups to you, to make sure they are going to good homes, he bought mum with him and all seemed fine until 2 days later, when it all went wrong and lo and behold the number i rung previosly was unavailable or carried on ringing, if i ever see this fella i will not be responsible for my actions!!!!! I have posted my story in the introductions area too, if anyone has any adivce for me please help x


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## PrincessMagick

Hi everyone 

I'm on the search for a puppy friend of my own, but am finding it a struggle and confusing.

Anyway I have been looking at adverts on Sun Local Classifieds, and contacted a potential seller, there reply to me was:



> Hello Dear,
> Thanks so much for the mail and interest regarding the puppies we
> have ..We have one male and one female puppies now available and they
> are 12 weeks old, they have very good temperament with kids and other
> pets,very playful love to play around with toys and kids,they are
> health guaranteed and KC registered.....they are up to date on all
> their shots and dewormings and they will be coming along side with
> their health papers and vet records....... First i wish to let you
> know that we are given these puppies out because my mum just died.
> She is located in kirkwall and all of us are there now ...She was the
> owner of this cute little babies.. Since she is now late , We can't
> keep the puppies here in such condition because each time we see them
> , we keep thinking of her .So we want to given them out to a lovely
> and caring home ,where they can be treated as such and keep us up
> dated on monthly progress.These puppies will be coming from kirkwall
> .. But if you would be able to come over here for the pick up ,we
> shall be very great full, but if you can't come , we can make
> arrangements for home delivery service and they will get the puppy
> delivered at your doorstep.Below are just some few question we asked..
> Where are you located?
> Do you have any kids ?
> Have you ever own a pet before ?
> Why this breed of puppy before?
> Why are you interested on this breed?
> How soon do you need the puppies over?
> Which sex are you interested on?
> Sorry for all the question , but we just want to be sure that the
> puppies are going to the right home and they will be having all the
> love and attention they need .We are given them out for 200pounds just for
> the delivery and that's all If still interested , yes contact us back for
> more details of the puppies and picture.07023030984


I'm not as daft as I seem, alarm bells went off at the "delivery" price. And anyway, £200? KC reg pups are about 4x that (AFAIK - I'm still learning!) So since the seller provided a mobile number I googled it (call me nosey but I like to say nicely inquisitive  ) and that number is being used in LOADS of puppy adverts.

I'm sorry if I shouldn't have posted the number, if it was wrong to do so then mods please edit my post, but I though it may be useful information to some one like me to avoid adverts with this number? ^-^

xoxo


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## Tobymum

Barniesowner, sorry to hear about puppy and I hope he will recover. Sadly you will have no redress if he doesn't as you have no details of seller, these people are very clever and you will never trace him.

Always see pups in the surroundings they were born with their mother.


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## petcoach

What breaks my heart in reading some of these posts and in talking to people who subsequently require coaching because of the difficulties they face when their under-socialised puppy grows up, is that they spend weeks or even months trying to find a puppy. Buying a puppy is a difficult job, so I can fullly understand why people finally resort to the online site.

Remember, we are talking about people who really love dogs but could find no other way to obtain a dog other than from an online site or an ad in the local paper. 

The internet sales sites are easy targets for people who want a puppy and puppy farmers are always easy to spot because they tell the same stories: they are just passing your home so it is easier for them to drop the puppy off, or they want to bring the dog to you to make sure it is a suitable home or they have moved to Scotland and can only send the pup by paid-for animal transport. In many of these cases, you are asked to pay in advance and the dog never arrives. If it does, a few days later, you wish it hadn't because the dog needs expensive medical treatment. 

The answer is simply to insist on seeing the dog at home with its mum or not buy - that is the only way to stamp out the puppy farms. 

I always try to encourage rehomiing dogs from rescue kennels - all of my dogs have come from there, including my latest who was a breeder in a puppy farm. You should see what that did to her body. The home I am associated with often has puppies and they are far cheaper than you would pay elsewhere but my suggestion is that given the terrible backgrounds of the dogs, you actually rehome an adult. That way you will see the problems, if any, and will know what you have to do to deal with them.

If you want a particular breed contact the kennel club for a list of authorised breeders, who do care for their dogs. If we all took such precautions, puppy farms would be a thing of the past,


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## StBernardMummy

Oh Danielle P that broke my heart I just couldn't keep reading 

Princess Magick, I think those alarm bells were right to ring! A good old sob story is one good way of getting people to buy the pups because we feel sorry for the "breeder". I have to admit it would tug at my heartstrings a little bit. What breed are these pups because for KC registered pups with all the papers and jabs etc they seem very low in price!


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## PrincessMagick

StBernardMummy said:


> Oh Danielle P that broke my heart I just couldn't keep reading
> 
> Princess Magick, I think those alarm bells were right to ring! A good old sob story is one good way of getting people to buy the pups because we feel sorry for the "breeder". I have to admit it would tug at my heartstrings a little bit. What breed are these pups because for KC registered pups with all the papers and jabs etc they seem very low in price!


Uff, yeah *Danielle P*'s story made me cry when I read it :crying:

And I'm pretty sure it is some kind of "in for profit breeder" or scam artist now, *StBernardMummy*, as I requested information from two different adverts and I got the same C/P reply as I quoted, WITH the same mobile number! : The price is low, in fact they said the £200 would be for delivery costs! And the pups are Samoyed.


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## anderzon

damn I could not help my self but read it slowly. But the slower I read the more the story gets worse as I could not imagine how it was like then.


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## Danielle P

Sorry everyone, I didnt mean to upset you 

It is terribly sad but thats the effect its meant to have, it made me cry the first time I read it too. I dont think I've read it since actually


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## huskylover23

my mum said there are lots trying to be clever. where people are working with these puppy farms and taking the pups to their homes for showings to potentional owners to make it look like they were bred in great conditions and being loved etc but they are in fact from puppy farms. is this true?


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## huskylover23

Danielle P said:


> Sorry everyone, I didnt mean to upset you
> 
> It is terribly sad but thats the effect its meant to have, it made me cry the first time I read it too. I dont think I've read it since actually


to be honest it makes me question a lot where my misty is concerned. she was always small and so terribly ill at only 7 months old and we had to have her put to sleep x


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## Danielle P

huskylover23 said:


> my mum said there are lots trying to be clever. where people are working with these puppy farms and taking the pups to their homes for showings to potentional owners to make it look like they were bred in great conditions and being loved etc but they are in fact from puppy farms. is this true?


Yes Huskylove unfortunately that is true. You wouldnt believe the extent these people go to to fool people.

I think what youre talking about is 'dealers' they buy a litter of pups from a puppy farm, then sell them as their own. I've also heard of people having a litter and a mum together to sell the pups but its not the pups mum, its another bitch.


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## Danielle P

huskylover23 said:


> to be honest it makes me question a lot where my misty is concerned. she was always small and so terribly ill at only 7 months old and we had to have her put to sleep x


Oh thats awful, where di you get her/buy her from?


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## huskylover23

Danielle P said:


> Oh thats awful, where di you get her/buy her from?


i bought her from these guys who have been breeding for years. i found out they were giving the puppies the jabs themselves before they should of been and misty got so ill. she had a liver shunt problem where the veins werent connected right to the liver so bile was building up in her blood, that on its own would of been manageable with tablets and diet she would of just been a bit smaller than what she should of been. the vets said they saw dark spots on her spleen on the ultra sound so needed to do some more tests but she actually laughed and said the chances of it being cancer were almost impossible in a puppy this young. purly because it is so rare for a puppy so young to have 2 serious things wrong. she phoned me back that night and said im so sorry she has got cancer im so shocked and cant beleive it. this was also a specialist clinic too  makes me think her parents shouldnt of been bred in the first place. poor misty didnt stand a chance and went so ill. i hated seeing my baby go so ill and she was crying in pain 

when the vet came to our to put her to sleep he said she shouldnt of been born alive with all the problems she had.

so i have had this question mark that things werent as they seemed at the breeders. also for some reason they didnt register the litter misty came from with the KC but the other litter they had were KC registered.

all very strange. i dont regret getting misty she gave me so much and i really loved my time with her, also we spent so much money trying to save her and a lot of people would of had her put to sleep as soon as they realised she would need tablets for the rest of her life, let alone chemo etc. i would of spent thousands if it meant even a few more months but her little body was too weak x


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## Danielle P

Oh thats sooo sad 

What you just said about her litter not being kc reg and the other litter was made me think dodgey, this is very common for kc breeders that are breeding too much.

They are only allowed to breed a certain amount of litters until the bitch is a certian age so they cant register every litter with the KC or the KC would know they were over breeding or puppy farmers. 

So sorry to say sounds like even if they had been breeding for years (a lot of puppy farmers do) it sounds like they werent the best breeders. 

Sorry to hear about Misty though and good on you for trying to help her


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## huskylover23

Danielle P said:


> Oh thats sooo sad
> 
> What you just said about her litter not being kc reg and the other litter was made me think dodgey, this is very common for kc breeders that are breeding too much.
> 
> They are only allowed to breed a certain amount of litters until the bitch is a certian age so they cant register every litter with the KC or the KC would know they were over breeding or puppy farmers.
> 
> So sorry to say sounds like even if they had been breeding for years (a lot of puppy farmers do) it sounds like they werent the best breeders.
> 
> Sorry to hear about Misty though and good on you for trying to help her


alarm bells should of rung at the time but i fell in love with misty when i saw her at 3 weeks old and just wanted her so didnt ask much.

they couldnt of cared less when i told them, they knew she was dying and never contacted me to ask if she passed away they didnt care at all. if anything they hinted at me to buy another pup 

i loved her with all my heart and im just heart broken. its so hard to find a good breeder x


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## Danielle P

I know and so many people fall into their trap, I guess thats how they get away with it. People are either like you and just love the pup and dont ask much or they see the pup in disgusting conditions and feel like they have to 'save' it. Its all so sad. 

Youre not looking for a puppy now are you. For anyone who is reading this, a good place to find a breeder is a website called 'the hairy dogmother' Google it and the website is in association with Dogs Today and they only accept ads from breeders who have done all the neccessary health testing.


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## Pointermum

Danielle P you made me cry with that post :crying: thank god the lights are off and OH to busy watching the football! Well done for spreading the word


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## anderzon

this makes me value more my pets at home.:thumbup:


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## petcoach

huskylover23 said:


> my mum said there are lots trying to be clever. where people are working with these puppy farms and taking the pups to their homes for showings to potentional owners to make it look like they were bred in great conditions and being loved etc but they are in fact from puppy farms. is this true?


It could easily be true, but at least you have some comeback if things go wrong because at least you know where one of them lives.

Heard a terrible tale today about a dog that was clearly used as a breeder. She was found abandoned in the forest, nearly hairless because she had contracted mange. The good thing is that the local rescue centre took her in, cleaned her up and she has now been rehomed.

This just shows how little respect the dogs receive from the breeders who see them as cash producers, nothing more.


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## Danielle P

petcoach said:


> It could easily be true, but at least you have some comeback if things go wrong because at least you know where one of them lives.
> 
> Heard a terrible tale today about a dog that was clearly used as a breeder. She was found abandoned in the forest, nearly hairless because she had contracted mange. The good thing is that the local rescue centre took her in, cleaned her up and she has now been rehomed.
> 
> This just shows how little respect the dogs receive from the breeders who see them as cash producers, nothing more.


That was one of the lucky ones then, at least she got away. All puppy farmers just use them for profit, once theyve finished with them, they couldnt give a damn about their safety or well being. Most are dumped or killed.

These breeding dogs are treated worse than cattle.


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## anderzon

or even worse others sell them so that they will be used as foods to zoo animals.


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## PrincessMagick

There was a news snippet on channel 5 reporting that one of the Puppy Farms they uncovered has been shut down and the people responsible are now banned from keeping animals again.
Will be watching to find out more, as I totally missed this story of theirs!


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## Danielle P

Actually Princess, the lady Marion in West Wales has actually been banned for a year, it should have been life. She has 80 dogs there and they were kept in disgusting conditions and she has 21 days to 'transfer' the dogs to someone else, so it could be family or a friend and she can carry on, so not good news really.

Haverfordwest magistrates fine and disqualify Llanfyrnach ex puppy farmer (From Western Telegraph)


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## Sophia1

I think I just bought a puppy inadvertently from such a farming organisation in Shropshire.

How does one tell?


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## rocco33

Why do you think it was a puppy farm? The difficulty is that one person's puppy farm will be anothers commercial breeder, but what were the problems and how did they cover them up when you went to view the puppies and meet the breeders?


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## jardine

i dont understand why marion was only banned for 12 months when shes not capable of turning up to court with bad health, how can she be capable of looking after dogs again, she should have been banned for life.


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## Danielle P

Sophia, why do you think it was a puppy farm =, read all of the other posts, they give an ide of what a puppy farmer is. 

and as far as Im concerned a commercial breeder is the same as a puppy farmer. They are not farm animals, they shouldnt be bred for profit.


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## Wolfdog23

Of all the topics discussed on this forum this is probably one that upsets me the most. I always believe that you visit the breeder several times and if possible contact owners of dogs bred from the kennel before commiting to taking a puppy. 

Its a sad fact that puppy farms exist, as well as factory farms for chickens, etc, but it is down to us all wanting cheap products, especially if the product we are talking about is a living animal. The only way the suppliers can meet the demand for cheap dogs is to factory produce them on a large scale and well being of the animals being bred for this large scale productivity goes straight out of the window. 

Sadly the law is limited when you come to prosecuting such things in the UK, but cheat the tax man and get 35 years, factory farm dogs and get a breeder ban for 2 years. I agree with previous posts give them what they are happy to give the dogs, locked in a wire cage 24 hours a day covered in their own feaces until they die through ill health.

If you want a dog, go to a responsible breeder and pay the money necessary to obtain a good example of the breed, not some over stressed puppy that was stripped from its mother after 3 weeks and is likely to suffer through ill health all its life, and most of these dogs end up being abandoned.

BTW, there are no breeders in the UK that dont work for profit, any breeder that produces healthy dogs wants a return on their work and investment. I am more worried about back door breeders that dont have their dogs health checked before randomly breeding them or someone that ends up with an unwanted pregnancy in a bitch and just wants the puppies gone. A good breeder takes good care of their breeding stock in clean conditions, puppie farmers dont care about the parental animals and over breed them to death in disgusting conditions, there is a fundemental difference between the two types of breeder.

All very, very sad


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## tracieduran

Oh my god! I never realised that so many pups were sent for resale into shops. That is disgusting. I sit here on the sofa and cannot imagine my little Poppy sat in a shop window beggin to be rescued. I bought my dog from a lady in chesterfield and have since found out that she had 3 other bitches expecting. Her house was dirty and smelt awfull I asked to see the mum of my pup and she told me she was out walking. My puppy had a lucky escape in my book. She was thin and under weight. I took her to the vet as soon as I fetched her the same day .
What made me suspicious was that when i knocked on the door she was there ready with Poppy and would not let me into the house. I saw her son with some other pups and he said " how much we made today then mum?"

It was only when I recieved an email from another lady that also purchased from the same woman, that I realised what she was doing. She has since been reported as the dogs she was breeding from looked so worn out and abused. It's just so wrong.
:frown:


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## huskylover23

tracieduran said:


> Oh my god! I never realised that so many pups were sent for resale into shops. That is disgusting. I sit here on the sofa and cannot imagine my little Poppy sat in a shop window beggin to be rescued. I bought my dog from a lady in chesterfield and have since found out that she had 3 other bitches expecting. Her house was dirty and smelt awfull I asked to see the mum of my pup and she told me she was out walking. My puppy had a lucky escape in my book. She was thin and under weight. I took her to the vet as soon as I fetched her the same day .
> What made me suspicious was that when i knocked on the door she was there ready with Poppy and would not let me into the house. I saw her son with some other pups and he said " how much we made today then mum?"
> 
> It was only when I recieved an email from another lady that also purchased from the same woman, that I realised what she was doing. She has since been reported as the dogs she was breeding from looked so worn out and abused. It's just so wrong.
> :frown:


 poor dogs


----------



## gizooty

can i add.. 
we think we have found a pet shop who sells Puppy farmed dogs/cats ect ect.. 
umm there is just to much of it that dosnt add up.. 
if you go to Facebook type in
CLOSE DOWN POSH PAWS PET SHOP.. 
There is pics and all that..


----------



## Ditsy42

These pup farmers live in the North East, also breed German lines in Rotts, I exposed them on a Rott forum awhile ago and believe it or not, they have started showing the Rotts, got the brass neck 2 turn up at KC champ shows, really pisses me off but nowt u can do about them, I ofund no fewer than 6 adverts on pre loved etc selling all sorts of breeds by the same seller at the same address 

Owners claim Copwell Kennels sold sick dogs - Sunday Sun

BBC Inside Out -

Steinhugle Rottweilers


----------



## Danielle P

I think these are one of the most well known puppy farmers now thanks to the coverage theyve been given. Funny that they are showing rotts, they may have KC reg dogs but they can no longer register pups with the KC, I haven been told that personally by the kennel club.

They were on BBC Rogue Traders YouTube - Rogue Traders1

Just do a google search on the surname or phone number and people can see for themselves what they are.

Their website is also misselling because it says 'KC Approved pups' and they are not.


----------



## Danielle P

Another forum set up to fight the fight against puppy farms!

SPEC
Stop Puppyfarming


----------



## cinnamontoast

Am I the only one to find the last poster's sig ironic?!


----------



## sueone

tashi said:


> puppyalert - Puppy Alert


hi,i myself breed german shepherds, but mine live with me and are part of my family, ive lady, harley ,zieva ,and kiera,my living room is hairy, my beds not big enough, and they are fed walked ,all before us, my son even says ,i love them more than him (if only he knew lol)how can people do these things to there familys, because thats what mine are, lady is 14,and ive had her since a puppy, i would love to close down puppy farms personaly,but i cant, but if i get any info, id definatley inform the r.s.p.c.a, these are sick people, and hopefully people like you can remind others what they are like.well done.


----------



## shells

i never realised there were puppy farms those poor animals. It is unbelivable how cruel some people can be.


----------



## jameserickson80

Yes, it's awful to know that these things are happening.


----------



## paddyjulie

PetLoverSid said:


> What the hell is all your problems.
> everybody needs to make a living somehow.


oh dear :scared::scared:


----------



## momentofmadness

PetLoverSid said:


> What the hell is all your problems.
> everybody needs to make a living somehow.


Are you for real... Make a living they... they are living creatures!!! They dont need exploiting any more.. and for what reason do you breed EBT x staffs.. I have personal experience with this cross!

Do you know how many of these types of dog are sat in rescues waiting for someone to give them a home.. Do you know how many of these types fall into idiots hands!! Do you know how many of these types of crosses you breed are waiting on Death row for someone to administer the final injection of Death!"!!!!!!


----------



## Guest

momentofmadness said:


> Are you for real... Make a living they... they are living creatures!!! They dont need exploiting any more.. and for what reason do you breed EBT x staffs.. I have personal experience with this cross!
> 
> Do you know how many of these types of dog are sat in rescues waiting for someone to give them a home.. Do you know how many of these types fall into idiots hands!! Do you know how many of these types of crosses you breed are waiting on Death row for someone to administer the final injection of Death!"!!!!!!


I have been reading this posters post momentofmadness and tbh I am starting to think troll since posting what he/she has on this thread then basicly advertising their pups on two other threads.

Also the fact that said user call's themselves a "dog dealer" say's it all.


----------



## momentofmadness

shetlandlover said:


> I have been reading this posters post momentofmadness and tbh I am starting to think troll since posting what he/she has on this thread then basicly advertising their pups on two other threads.
> 
> Also the fact that said user call's themselves a "dog dealer" say's it all.


Dont worry.. Im onto it..


----------



## PetLoverSid

On to what may i ask, Have read your pm, sorry does`nt wash with me, none of you live in the real world as i can see, obviously a bunch of bored divorcies on this site !!!!!


----------



## momentofmadness

PetLoverSid said:


> On to what may i ask, Have read your pm, sorry does`nt wash with me, none of you live in the real world as i can see, obviously a bunch of bored divorcies on this site !!!!!


Haha Never been married me mate.. Far too happy with the way i am. 

Is that what you are sid.. a bored divorcee,??


----------



## momentofmadness

PetLoverSid said:


> On to what may i ask, Have read your pm, sorry does`nt wash with me, none of you live in the real world as i can see, obviously a bunch of bored divorcies on this site !!!!!


Oh yeah.. And I haven't sent you a PM.. I sent you a VM on your profile for all to see..


----------



## tashi

PetLoverSid said:


> On to what may i ask, Have read your pm, sorry does`nt wash with me, none of you live in the real world as i can see, obviously a bunch of bored divorcies on this site !!!!!


Can I ask are you a licensed breeder and are they kc registered


----------



## Guest

PetLoverSid said:


> On to what may i ask, Have read your pm, sorry does`nt wash with me, none of you live in the real world as i can see, obviously a bunch of bored divorcies on this site !!!!!


I have never been married not really old enough to be divorced either.:thumbup:


----------



## Guest

tashi said:


> Can I ask are you a licensed breeder and are they kc registered


Tashi they are cross breeds I believe so they are not KC registered.


----------



## canuckjill

PetLoverSid said:


> On to what may i ask, Have read your pm, sorry does`nt wash with me, none of you live in the real world as i can see, obviously a bunch of bored divorcies on this site !!!!!


Not sure if its my PM you read, but I've been married for over 20 years sorry. We do live in the real world and are trying to make it better for the animals that share this planet with us....


----------



## paddyjulie

PetLoverSid said:


> On to what may i ask, Have read your pm, sorry does`nt wash with me, none of you live in the real world as i can see, obviously a bunch of bored divorcies on this site !!!!!


pot calling kettle black springs to mind there...you did mention an ex wife in your intro:lol: :lol:


----------



## momentofmadness

paddyjulie said:


> pot calling kettle black springs to mind there...you did mention an ex wife in your intro:lol: :lol:


:lol: Inspector Jooles, is here and now on the case.. :lol:


----------



## paddyjulie

momentofmadness said:


> :lol: Inspector Jooles, is here and now on the case.. :lol:


lmao...i am getting quite good at it ....but it does sometimes get me into a little bother :scared:


----------



## PetLoverSid

Dont you all go sticking you nose in where it doesnt belong, so what if my precious babies arent kc registered, somebody has to take them in as you are all obviously snobs  , 
iv come on here to express my opinions because that is what a forum is. 
this is a form of bullying and i will be emailing the maker of this.


----------



## Guest

PetLoverSid said:


> Dont you all go sticking you nose in where it doesnt belong, so what if my precious babies arent kc registered, somebody has to take them in as you are all obviously snobs  ,
> iv come on here to express my opinions because that is what a forum is.
> this is a form of bullying and i will be emailing the maker of this.


They are not even yours....they are KC registered bull terriers. You are just using their picture.


----------



## canuckjill

shetlandlover said:


> They are not even yours....they are KC registered bull terriers. You are just using their picture.


If you look petloversid (on your profile) someone kindly gave you the link to your puppies true advertisements. Like this post says they are kc reg bull terriers.


----------



## momentofmadness

PetLoverSid said:


> Dont you all go sticking you nose in where it doesnt belong, so what if my precious babies arent kc registered, somebody has to take them in as you are all obviously snobs  ,
> iv come on here to express my opinions because that is what a forum is.
> this is a form of bullying and i will be emailing the maker of this.


Wrong.. Id probably say half the people on here have a cross.. 

Look at my sig.. i have one.. 

Also like I said.. Why dont you start a thread about your pups with some nice pics so we can all see them..  we all like puppy pics.. regardless of breed..

Oh yeah.. you can email the maker.. would you like the details.. cause you have in your profile a pic of pups you claim are ebt x staffs.. But as someone has posted on your profile.. the pic is actually of a litter of KC reg EBT from October. so they wont bes 6 weeks old either.. This thread is about exposing puppy farms.. so while on here why dont you post something constructive..


----------



## RebeccaArmstrong

Another puppy farm - well a well known one raising its head again ....

you can buy puppies through paypal on the site, its awful ... how the hell do they get away with this


----------



## Genie

their kennels were on the news werent they?
We went there when we were looking for a puppy, but werent impressed by how many dogs there were and that there didnt seem to be any parents around (although i didnt ask) 
My aunty, however, did get one from there. 
So how do they get away with it? Cause their adverts are everywhere?


----------



## bonnieanme4eva

I had know idea, this is awful, it makes me sick an I mean who could do such an awful thig to dogs, no worse puppys giveing you thoughs eyes, have a heart! I can't actualy belive that I and every one else on PF ,all animal lovers, are actualy are the same speices as those crule monters that do this, to puppys, more people should know about this, way more.


----------



## bonnieanme4eva

just had awfull thought:
they don't do kitten farming, do they?


----------



## PreciousPet

Puppy farms are terrible and pet shop owners are taking advantage of it. There is a shop where I live that hides the fact that his puppies are from puppy farms located in Wales. My tip to anyone buying a pup, AVOID pet shops and do some research for a good, honest breeder. 

Or you could always rescue a dog from a dogs home as the numbers of unwanted pets is growing.


----------



## PreciousPet

bonnieanme4eva said:


> just had awfull thought:
> they don't do kitten farming, do they?


I believe they do :sad:


----------



## Vegliacich

Thanks for increasing exposure!


----------



## marjie 60

I just could not write here what i would do with these people,prison,losing all there money? NOT ENOUGH OF A PUNISHMENT in my eyes they need t b treated the same as they treated these poor animals,let them live in there own filth locked away in darkness,with no heat and light.This is the kind end of the punishment i would give them,cant write here what i would realy like to do with them!!!!!!!MY THEY BURN IN HELL FOREVER


----------



## jennyone1

It's the factory farming of puppies, I'm afraid. We need people's eyes to be opened to stop this twisted trade. I would rather adopt a dog than buy a a puppy and that's how I've gotten all my dogs. At least then you're not adding to the problem, because if there is a damand for something there are always people willing to be cruel to animals to make money.


----------



## jakek06

When a friend of mine goes into a puppy farm, what you see is horrid! Puppy Love Campaigns are great at exposing puppy farms for what they are really about - *profit*.


----------



## we love bsh's

*horrid places*,and i was describing it nicely!!!!!


----------



## bonnieanme4eva

PreciousPet said:


> I believe they do :sad:


its sad but nature would be better off without us


----------



## tracieduran

So so sad that these people are still getting away with this. Turns my stomach


----------



## wooliewoo

CROSSPOSTED

Okay, there is a planning application gone in for a 200 kennel puppy farm. on reading the document regarding this planning application (retrospective) it would seem that some sort of massive dog breeding has already been carried out on this farm, but more space is needed and new kennels to bring the breeding pens up to spec. 180 adult dogs are being proposed, which means that if 3/4 of these were bitches (135) and each bitch produced litters of, say, eight puppies every six months, that would equate to appx. 2160 (two thousand, one hundred and sixty) pups per year...... Are we really cool with this?????????
Please go onto the application and log your opposition to this...
Carmarthenshire County Council


----------



## Stellabella

wooliewoo said:


> CROSSPOSTED
> 
> Okay, there is a planning application gone in for a 200 kennel puppy farm. on reading the document regarding this planning application (retrospective) it would seem that some sort of massive dog breeding has already been carried out on this farm, but more space is needed and new kennels to bring the breeding pens up to spec. 180 adult dogs are being proposed, which means that if 3/4 of these were bitches (135) and each bitch produced litters of, say, eight puppies every six months, that would equate to appx. 2160 (two thousand, one hundred and sixty) pups per year...... Are we really cool with this?????????
> Please go onto the application and log your opposition to this...
> Carmarthenshire County Council


I can't believe this..  ..the RSPCA only just closed one down not that far away!!

I went on the link, but being hard of brain couldn't work out how to lodge an objection. Please could you tell me what to do? I'll stick it on my facebook too. This is OUTRAGEOUS!!


----------



## Stellabella

YAY! I worked it out and I've lodged my objection!! Put it on facebook too. Needs more though....


----------



## wooliewoo

Cant believe councils still grant licences for these places. How anyone thinks this is acceptable behaviour is beyond me.


----------



## Stellabella

wooliewoo said:


> CROSSPOSTED
> 
> Okay, there is a planning application gone in for a 200 kennel puppy farm. on reading the document regarding this planning application (retrospective) it would seem that some sort of massive dog breeding has already been carried out on this farm, but more space is needed and new kennels to bring the breeding pens up to spec. 180 adult dogs are being proposed, which means that if 3/4 of these were bitches (135) and each bitch produced litters of, say, eight puppies every six months, that would equate to appx. 2160 (two thousand, one hundred and sixty) pups per year...... Are we really cool with this?????????
> Please go onto the application and log your opposition to this...
> Carmarthenshire County Council


Would it be okay to post this as a thread in the breeding section too? It'll get much more attention.


----------



## jennyone1

This is disgraceful.

There's also a beagle breeding farm being opened so that puppies are being bred so they can be tortured by so called scientists.

Read about it here - BUAV speaks out against plans to build a beagle breeding factory
Unfortunately, the deadline to oppose the application is past, but I'm still complaining.

P.S Sorry, if this has been posted before. My Internet keeps going off every ten minutes, so I have't had time to check.


----------



## Elanor

We'd been looking for the perfect puppy to join our family, after seeing some of the posts here and links to videos of farms we were horrified. We're in South Wales so I'm aware there's a good chance the puppy we did consider was coming from a farm.
I'm happy to say we're off today to collect our new three year old dog instead and give him the loving home he deserves rather than add to the buyers keeping these people farming.


----------



## Tobymum

Well done on deciding on rescue dog


----------



## jennyone1

Well done Eleanor. If more people were like you no dogs would be bought from evil puppy farms that treat dogs so badly the animal charities should be trying to shut them all down. 

Pat yourself on the back for making a real difference.:001_smile:


----------



## critter

Hi, just to let you know that I objected to this Carmarthenshire County Council and cross posted it in a few places as well, i've just received a letter from the Council to say that my objection has been received and noted, now if enough people just click the link and register their opposition I'm sure that we can get something done about this inhumane application. wayne.


----------



## jennyone1

Thanks Wooliewoo. Will be putting in an letter to complain too. Can't believe that in a country with so many animal lovers that such places are allowed to exist.


----------



## ammkenquiries

Stop this shop selling puppies
dogs4us in leeeds and manchester are glorified puppy farmers sign my petition 2 make a stop


----------



## doggiechew

I have been looking for a pug puppy for many months and often search the internet but today something concerned me regarding an advert for pug puppies, initially for free but later to be priced at 190.00 post and packaging.

Firstly, I would hope it is a scam for money and no puppies are actually involved, but my concern is that this could be real and a scrupulous puppy farm is sending these puppies out in boxes and I would hate to think of the condition of the poor mother of the puppies.

The website I look through most days is oodle.co.uk and spotted the advert today, it claimed there was two puppies for free, after I sent an enquiry I noticed that the same person had various adverts for Pug puppies posted within minutes of each other being placed and for various places from Glasgow, Edinburgh, London to Cardiff and Ireland. After enquiring about the puppies and costs and then noticing the other adverts these adverts suddenly disappeared from oodle.co.uk

The reply I received from the seller is as follows...

Hello,

thanks for the mails as well as interest in my puppies.they are 
still available both male and females and they are both 12weeks 3days 
of age respectively,Before we proceed these puppies are well 
socialized with kids and pets like cats,Very friendly with people,They 
love to play with their toys,And they have an outstanding 
temperament,These puppies represents the highest standard of pure breed 
puppies...They very Intelligent and Compactly built,Registered 
,Pedigree,Health Guarantee Certificate of Veterinary Inspection 
,Micro-Chipped (in case ever lost or stolen) Current on all 
vaccinations,Wormed ,puppies Packet(Toys,Vaccination schedule and 
history, Crate Training info., Potty Training info.) Already diaper 
Trained Travel Crate with delivery,they will be coming with health 
certificate,KC registration papers.A single puppy is going to cost you 
190pounds including his/her shipping fee to be drop off at your 
doorstep if you would be able to come over in my home in 
Aberdeen(Scotland) and also i will like to know how soon do you want 
the puppy to be at your home and also do get to me with sex that you 
are interested in so i can send more pictures for you to have a close 
look. Please i will as well like to have a brief description of your 
environment.Fill free to call me on 00447xxxxxxxxx
Best Regards.

Number blocked by me, I have reported this to [email protected]


----------



## lymorelynn

This is a common scam doggiechew and I doubt that there are any actual pups involved.


----------



## puppyalert

URGENT - your help is needed

Retrospective Planning Application, dated 8th March 2011. Agriculture Shed to Dog Breeding at Beili Bedw Farm, Llanllwni, Pencader, Carmarthenshire, SA39 9DP

On the 28th January 2010, the Local Planning Authority confirmed that a shed could be erected. The application stated that the shed was for agriculture use for sheep and agriculture machinery. This did not require the need for a specific grant of planning permission as the operation would be permitted development under the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995.
This resulted in the shed being erected, but within a short period of time it was bought to the attention of Puppy Alert that dogs were being kept within the shed and it was fitted out with tiled walls and floor for the purpose of dog breeding. Planning enforcement were advised accordingly and a visit to the premises was made, the consequences of which the applicant was advised to submit a planning application for change of use from agriculture to dog breeding.
Background: 
The premises were granted change of use of calf pens into dog kennels for up to 9 dogs in 1994. This required the applicant to request written approval for any intensification of the business, this was never applied for.
From 1994 to date the dog breeding business has intensified to 140 dogs but in the latter few years to 180 (in recent months the dog breeding licence was renewed by Carmarthenshire County Council for 196 dogs), although allegedly the figure for dogs kept on the farm was far in excess of either of these numbers and is likely to be so in the future with or without a licence if this application is approved.

The premises are a working farm with 850 breeding sheep and 200 followers, with 120 acres owned and 100 acres rented and more envisaged in the future. Plus of course the dogs, which incidentally do not appear to have any exercise areas attached to any of the units (livestock sheds) that are used for keeping the dogs 24/7. The applicant is said to employ one full and one part time staff. How can they possible ensure high animal welfare standards for the dogs when they have 196 dogs and 1,000 sheep and land to care for too?.

Puppy Alert will object to this application and is asking that others if they feel concerned too to do likewise. The plans can be viewed here. The planning application number is W/24449
Carmarthenshire County Council
Please send your objections for the attention of the Planning Development Officer, Stuart Willis
email: [email protected]

Planning can only take into account objections on planning issues, such as highways, noise, hazardous waste etc. However the volume of objections to a planning application can be important too, including personal opinions. Please look at the application, read the planning agents report, the latter comments are just his written opinion as to the reasons that change of use from agriculture to dog breeding should be given planning permission. If you do not agree with the agent that dog breeding is an agriculture pursuit then write an objection and say why you are against this application and feel it should not go ahead.

Remember the premises are now licensed for 196 dogs Carmarthenshire County Council appears to be indifferent to animal welfare, public opinion and those of Puppy Alert that to accommodate 196 dogs (with the possibility of more) on a farm premises that has the responsibility for a thousand sheep and few staff is totally irresponsible. Dogs are companion animals requiring human company, socialization and exercise, not isolation and deprivation. They are not livestock and should not be treated as such, their needs are entirely different. To accommodate so many dogs in one area places a higher risk of disease spreading. The mass production of irresponsibly bred puppies from non health screened parents should never be condoned  neither should the fact that these mass produced puppies are destined for sale by dealers and pet shops. Stop puppy farming, battery farming and the indiscriminate commercial breeding of dogs by writing and objecting to this application. You have a choice the dogs and puppies do not.

Thank you


----------



## perla

What is wrong with you people?? I know this farm well, they keeping those dogs in clean safe kennels and they are happy there, they enjoying their time out on the fresh air. They got fresh food and water. All dogs and puppies got vet care 24/7. Would you all prefer them to run out on the streets looking for food, I dont think so. And why would you say that they are harmed there. Its not true !!! I got puppy from this farm and I am really happy with it.
People find yourself a job and stop writing shits!!!!


----------



## Blondie

perla said:


> What is wrong with you people?? I know this farm well, they keeping those dogs in clean safe kennels and they are happy there, they enjoying their time out on the fresh air. They got fresh food and water. All dogs and puppies got vet care 24/7. Would you all prefer them to run out on the streets looking for food, I don't think so. And why would you say that they are harmed there. Its not true !!! I got puppy from this farm and I am really happy with it.
> People find yourself a job and stop writing shits!!!!


Because breeding for money is fecking disgusting, I dont care how 'well' the dogs/puppies are allegedly looked after - its puppy farming through and through!!!!!!!!!!!:cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing: You cant tell me every single one of those dogs gets individual loave and attention and exercise every day of the year - can you??? And can you honestly tell me the bitches are NOT bred from season after season????


----------



## simplysardonic

perla said:


> What is wrong with you people?? I know this farm well, they keeping those dogs in clean safe kennels and they are happy there, they enjoying their time out on the fresh air. They got fresh food and water. All dogs and puppies got vet care 24/7. Would you all prefer them to run out on the streets looking for food, I dont think so. And why would you say that they are harmed there. Its not true !!! I got puppy from this farm and I am really happy with it.
> People find yourself a job and stop writing shits!!!!


This sums up my opinion of your sad little post


----------



## bearcub

perla said:


> What is wrong with you people?? I know this farm well, they keeping those dogs in clean safe kennels and they are happy there, they enjoying their time out on the fresh air. They got fresh food and water. All dogs and puppies got vet care 24/7. Would you all prefer them to run out on the streets looking for food, I dont think so. And why would you say that they are harmed there. Its not true !!! I got puppy from this farm and I am really happy with it.
> People find yourself a job and stop writing shits!!!!


- Raising puppies and keeping dogs in kennels, no matter how 'fresh and clean' isn't admirable. 
- Why would a healthy dog need vet care 24/7? Mine certainly don't.
- Giving a dog 'fresh food and water' isn't an achievement. It's a necessity. 
I could go on, but ceearott and simplysardonic put it much better than me.


----------



## Kinski

perla said:


> What is wrong with you people?? I know this farm well, they keeping those dogs in clean safe kennels and they are happy there, they enjoying their time out on the fresh air. They got fresh food and water. All dogs and puppies got vet care 24/7. Would you all prefer them to run out on the streets looking for food, I dont think so. And why would you say that they are harmed there. Its not true !!! I got puppy from this farm and I am really happy with it.
> People find yourself a job and stop writing shits!!!!


I believe that at the moment there is only one full time member of staff and one part timer if you think that is enough to look after nearly 200 dogs then I'm sorry but there is something seriously wrong with your thinking.


----------



## Devil-Dogz

perla said:


> What is wrong with you people?? I know this farm well, they keeping those dogs in clean safe kennels and they are happy there, they enjoying their time out on the fresh air. They got fresh food and water. All dogs and puppies got vet care 24/7. Would you all prefer them to run out on the streets looking for food, I dont think so. And why would you say that they are harmed there. Its not true !!! I got puppy from this farm and I am really happy with it.
> People find yourself a job and stop writing shits!!!!


LOL - Is this another case of worker, kennel owner themselves joining me thinks so!

- Get some standards, and select an ethical breeder - or continue to support unethical breeding practice..Up to you, but dont look down on them with animal welfare at the centre of their hearts


----------



## noushka05

perla said:


> What is wrong with you people?? I know this farm well, they keeping those dogs in clean safe kennels and they are happy there, they enjoying their time out on the fresh air. They got fresh food and water. All dogs and puppies got vet care 24/7. Would you all prefer them to run out on the streets looking for food, I dont think so. And why would you say that they are harmed there. Its not true !!! I got puppy from this farm and I am really happy with it.
> People find yourself a job and stop writing shits!!!!


surely only a puppy farmer would think that an acceptable way to keep dogs hmmm


----------



## Kinski

I also very much doubt that this place sells to the general public, he more than likely ships the pups out to pet shops or perhaps to homes where they pass the pups of as being home bred.


----------



## springerpete

Katie&Cody said:


> So sad! Why do people do this...it bemuses me


Simple answer. Easy money.


----------



## jennyone1

perla said:


> what is wrong with you people?? I know this farm well, they keeping those dogs in clean safe kennels and they are happy there, they enjoying their time out on the fresh air. They got fresh food and water. All dogs and puppies got vet care 24/7. Would you all prefer them to run out on the streets looking for food, i dont think so. And why would you say that they are harmed there. Its not true !!! I got puppy from this farm and i am really happy with it.
> People find yourself a job and stop writing shits!!!!


i see that the puppy farmer has posted here.


----------



## jennyone1

At the end of the day, its people who insist on buying puppies and don't insist on seeing those puppies with their mums that help cause this. People will factory farm anything if they can make a buck.

On a personal view, I would NEVER buy a puppy. Not whilst there's so many unwanted dogs needing a home. My current dog Benjy and my last dog were both from the Dogs Trust. Very healthy and happy dogs too. :smile5:


----------



## Mandy D

THERE IS TO BE AN ORGANISED PEACEFUL PROTEST WITH REGARDS TO THE:

PLANNING APPLICATION FOR DOG BREEDING KENNELS AT BEILI BEDW FARM, LLANLLWNI, PENCADER, CARMARTHENSHIRE, SA39 9DP

THE PROTEST IS TAKING PLACE TUESDAY 30TH AUGUST @ 11.00 AM OUTSIDE: 

Carmarthenshire County Council
County Hall
Carmarthen
Carmarthenshire
SA31 1JP


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## petcoach

If you don't want even more puppy farms, please respond to a Government consultation about allowing experiments on domestic animals and sign my e-petition.

Apologies if I break any rules by posting this on different forums, but I feel this is so important as the deadline for commenting on the Home Office paper is on 5 September

A story in the Daily Mail led me to a Government website, which is advertising a consultation as to whether they should allow experiments on domestic pets.

As a result, I have just set up a Government e-petition, which includes a link to the consultation paper: Do not let Europe force us to allow experiments on domestic animals - e-petitions. Do not let Europe force us to allow experiments on domestic animals.

I do hope you will sign this petition and circulate it to your friends. Please also submit a view to the Home Office. I have only received 27 signatures so far, which will tell the Government that nobody cares.

If enough people do sign the petition and comment, the Government are more likely to oppose the idea. If nobody objects, then in a year or two's time we might find even more puppy and kitten farms being set up to breed cats and dogs for experiments.

The consultation paper can be found at: Animal testing consultation | Home Office


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## Nattietwoie

Well, to be honest I have had lots of dogs, and I have never come across a puppy farm and I hope I never do..


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## ukdogkennels

There are people out there that operate these from there own homes!


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## dee41

so cruel makes my blood boil i have a 5year old rescues cav she was used for breeding and was beaten badly only had her 2 weeks and she is coming on great still wont come to us but does not cower in a corner anymore we only had her 2 weeks and i think she knows she will never be beaten again when i got her she would not even look at me now she watches everything i do and loves being stroked but like i say i have to go to her it will take time but love her loads i wish they would stop this cruelty.


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## 00Colle

Awww that's so sad! But glad to here that she is getting better


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## kateh8888

So sad, lets hope there is a change soon.


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## StaffsRmisunderstood

Puppy farms really disgust me they arent breeding because they love the breed its simply for profits and it enfuriates me! my mum bought her male golden cocker 'bobbi' from a gent who had no time for him, we later found out hed sold him to us with the beginning of mange (but thats a whole other story) anyway he had bought bobbi as 'Bailey' off an elderly lady who had bought him from somewhere in Lincolnshire called Belville Babies ... he has no kc papers just a pedigree paper, we suspect Belville Babies is a puppy farm ... so by the age of 6 month old he had, had 3 owners and had been left atleast 3 months with mange hidden by his long coat which had begun balding... my mum had him treated at a massiv cost and has since found out he has alot of genetic defects too as a result of inbreeding ... these puppy farms make me sick and they should all be closed down... :nono:


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## Manoy Moneelil

StaffsRmisunderstood said:


> Puppy farms really disgust me they arent breeding because they love the breed its simply for profits and it enfuriates me! my mum bought her male golden cocker....


The only reference I can find for the company you mention is your own two posts mentioning the name within this forum.

If you have a case, go investigate it.

But at the moment you appear to be the only person mentioning that name on the internet, *do you have the right spelling*?

It might *infuriate* you but spelling makes a huge difference in getting your message across. :


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## choclabwoody

Hi


> he has no kc papers just a pedigree paper


What's the pedigree paper that came with him?

When I bought my so called pedigree lab, he came with Dogs Lovers Registration and to be honest it is worthless. Some of the information on it was mispelt and the address was a mishmash of places in Carmarthenshire.

Like you and others I can't find this breeder either.

Colin & Woody


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## retepwaker

this is going to happen more and more now that jobs are hard to find all that the authorities are interested in number one terries that's what wee are being told They just wont us to keep on breading more children for gun fodder


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## Talli

There are lots of websites for lots of different breeds - whether 'pure bred" or "cross-bred" and one thing some puppy farms haven't understood is that people can now cross-reference websites; the owners and the locations on-line.

The internet can not only "help" puppy farmers but it can also "expose" them !

If you are worried that a particular breeder may be breeding more than they claim then monitor their site. Download / print off a page at a given date and do the same every couple of weeks - you can create a picture that way of how many puppies they have. Changing a bitches name to hide that she may be bred back-to-back is easy. But if a breeder claims to only have 10 bitches then in the real world she should have no more than 10 litters a year !!!!!!!!!

If enough people are concerned (and this site appears to be frequented by like-minded people) then even a polite call to the breeder that they are being watched has proven to be enough to make someone pull their socks up !

This will not stop hardened puppy farmers but it will deter a few and a few is better than none.....for now.


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## cara brand

thankyou for the Exposing puppy farms comments i have used some of the links as im in the middle of complaing about a farm my dog came from and the rspca havent done much so your links were very helpful thanks again.


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## Tobymum

Cara if you want to tell us about your dog and the farm, please email [email protected]


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## beris

It is the councillors and Assembly Members who need educating.

As long as puppy farming is classed as diversification in farming and councils give planning permission to farmers, for 107 breeding bitches and 21 stud dogs, IMO it will never be controlled or stopped.


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## Tobymum

And we are educating them often, we were invited to speak to the animal health team again this year and went to Carmarthen to have input into new legislation, just as we did last year. All AM's have been sent our film and documentation as have DEFRA and many MP's
.


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## Mandy D

The new campaign group CARIAD is having a puppy farming conference at he end of March with some very good speakers. Tickets are available now. Please advertise and spread the word so that they get a good turnout.

The first Wales puppy farming conference - 31 March 2012. BOOK NOW! « cariadcampaign


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## Dogs4Evar

How very thoughtful of you. I hope everyone reads this - it needs to be.


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## AllAboutYourPets

Wow, thank you for this link hopefully it will go viral or at least a bunch of people will see it. It really is incredibly sad and needs to be rid of completely.

Thanks for the post and the information.


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## Cesar Milano

A subject close to my heart.We get the mother dogs at our shelter.When they`re used up and no longer able to make money they get dumped on us.These dogs then start experiencing life for the first time and everything is new and scary for them.They go toilet next to their bed because that`s all they`ve known.We do our best to rehabilitate them but only ever get so far and they never really become normal.To compare...the dogs that we get that have been abused,neglected etc recover fairly quickly and end up being rehomed as normal happy dogs...this is not the case for puppy farm mums,the psychological damage is too deep and therefore they are difficult to re-home.To sum up...imo puppy farms are the worst,most damaging form of cruelty..profit from misery.


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## SueBoo

Great link.

Hopefully a lot of people will read/have read this


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## beris

Mandy D said:


> The new campaign group CARIAD is having a puppy farming conference at he end of March with some very good speakers. Tickets are available now. Please advertise and spread the word so that they get a good turnout.
> 
> The first Wales puppy farming conference  31 March 2012. BOOK NOW! « cariadcampaign


This was cancelled due to lack of interest.


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## Doodler

I havn't read all the posts in this thread so if I am repeating--sorry.

In my local newspaper last week was an article regarding legislation to 'fix' the number of Dogs per staff member at the Breeding location or Kennel. Numbers being debated vary from 15 to 20.

MY personal feelings may be a bit much for some-I do not like 'Kennels' let alone 'Farms' regardless of the Domestic pet concerned.

Pet shops dealing with Live animals should be torched--It turns my stomach when I see the likes of Reptiles in glass aquaria,BIrds in cages (disgusting!) and any other so called Exotic 'Pets'. IF an animal is not at liberty to run or fly freely then it can't be considered a pet- its a captive Animal. Pet shops should stick to selling paraphranalia,feed and other petcare services.

eddie


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## fogy

We got our Puppy from what we thought was a genuine breeder. We brought the last puppy she had and the next week she advertised again the exact same litter of puppies. Im sure if no one had brought the pup (runt of the litter) well.. i wouldnt like to think what the woman would of done.


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## suewhite

My Harry was a puppy farm stud he was used for 3 years then discarded if he hadn't of found a home he would have been killed,he came to me with black teeth, broken ribs and had never mixed with humans that showed him any love,for the first week all he did was sit and shred paper as that is what he had done for 3 years and if you went near him he would shake and roll on his back,After many vet trips and £££spent on him he is now living life as a happy dog.Its been hard but I will rescue as many of these poor dogs as I can or they will never know what life is really like,I hate puppy farms and the people that make money from them:angry:


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## poppiesowner

that is so sad but so preventable. 
I cant understand why anyone would buy a dog from a puppy farm


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## magicmike

Sad but TRUE, the things that people will do for money these days..


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## hahgiwoofa

Our boy Paddy has come from an RSPCA shelter. There were him, his 5 brothers and sister from his litter (then 2 months) and 7 from another litter (just born), all kept in a leaking shed, mother was malnourished and still nursing both litters, father chained up outside. They prosecuted owners and have finally rehomed the pups, mum and dad are being rehomed together due to mum's psychological problems.

I know this is only a small 'farm' but every little helps, and he, and his siblings are now in loving homes...


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## jp756

Those poor dogs it really breaksmy heart!!


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## Big bully

What I can not get my head around is why and how does this still happen? In the States puppy farms are ilegal, yet here nobody other than the likes of us give a toss! I have seen video's that made my cry and vomit and to think that ill educated people still buy from these places! :mad2:


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## fogy

Breaks my heart too, something really needs to be done, the rules/law just aren't tough enough
I wish i was in charge


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## Kinski

For anyone interested it's Puppy farm awareness day on the 18th of September.


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## petrus

Still cant understand, how some people's mind work. That is cruel...:mad2:


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## emmaviolet

Hi. I posted this earlier in another thread as many on there had a puppy from bentlry hall farm die after a few days of having them home from parvo, so i thought of them first but just saw this thread and thought i'd share the info here too;

I've copied this from another forum I'm a member of as I thought of you all first and what awful things you have been put through.

Channel 5 - Cowboy Puppy Farmers

They've targeted the bad builders  now it's time to round up the rest of the cowboys. Following the huge success of Cowboy Builders, Dom Littlewood and Melinda Messenger will be joining forces, turning their attentions to cowboy traders once again in a second series of the popular prime-time consumer series Cowboy Traders.

Cowboy Traders has seen Dom and Melinda turning their attentions to rogues in other industries, with dodgy car dealers, dishonest landlords and unscrupulous bridal shop owners all on their hit list.

Each hour-long episode features families whove suffered at the hands of an unreliable trader. Dom uses his trademark blend of detective work, investigative journalism and undercover filming to expose the perpetrators, while Melissa helps the unfortunate victims of the scams.

The series is keen to include an episode about the trade in puppies from puppy farms and rogue pet shops. They need to identify a specific trader to feature and be able to prove a pattern of rogue behaviour by revealing a number of case studies.

Please spread the word and if you can help uncover a cowboy puppy trader please contact:

Cowboy Traders
Tel: 01273 224829
[email protected]

Puppy Cowboy Traders Channel 5 - D for Dog UK

Hope this helps somewhat.


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## Jeannemf

I think the more information that gets out to the public on this issue the less people will tend to buy their puppies from the shops.


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## Ray Craig

Jeannemf said:


> I think the more information that gets out to the public on this issue the less people will tend to buy their puppies from the shops.


The problem is that people are looking for what they see is a bargain and if it is 'broke' then they are more likely to throw it away and worse than that brand the whole thing as sh**t...so badly bred puppy farm dog is going to suffer from the market the buyer creates!

"My cheap collie was ill and sickly; therefore they all are. It sickens me.

Excuse me my puppy cost me £600 eight years ago and I saw both parents and have a full pedigree. Mt rescue cost me nothing other than the vets work of spaying, vaccinations, insurance etc etc and so we can call that £400....so you paid £70 and thought that was it?


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## Zenny

I have seen worst than these..


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## sligy

Its so annoying that in this day and age people are getting away with this.


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## Jackie99

Can anyone please point me to somewhere in which I can read up on the 'law' or 'rules' what is expected of people just breeding from their back yard please in particular related to Wales?


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## Kinski

Ask some of the girls over on puppy love, they should be able to help you.


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## Jackie99

Thank you. Just seems wrong what is going on here.


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## RichardJordan

There was a video clip on VioVet's facebook wall showing a video of 37 puppies who had been found in two cars in Ireland.
If the puppies are treated like this then I'm worried for the mothers of the puppies.

If you really can't find a suitable do from a rescue centre then please always visit the home of the breeder and insist on seeing the mother who should be with her puppies.


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## amyf5569

I narrowly avoided buying a Boston terrier puppy from a dealer in West Sussex, everything seemed wrong from the off. Clean House no sign of any pets, getting puppy from a shed, no seeing the pup with the mother. Handwritten pedigree certificate, no toys, bedding, insurance to come with the puppy. The Boston pup has now been sold according to pets4homes. Makes me sooooooo angry!!


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## tcsghhtj

Cowboy Traders have just filmed a series on this. The person involved selling sick puppies ( PUPPY FARM ) says me and the other families are doing it for 5 minutes of fame!!! We are doing it for justice for the puppies that have died or been extremly poorly. Did try to start a thread with this but cant seem to be able to do it. The puppy farm involved is in Pulborough, west sussex.


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## Kinski

tcsghhtj said:


> Cowboy Traders have just filmed a series on this. The person involved selling sick puppies ( PUPPY FARM ) says me and the other families are doing it for 5 minutes of fame!!! We are doing it for justice for the puppies that have died or been extremly poorly. Did try to start a thread with this but cant seem to be able to do it. The puppy farm involved is in Pulborough, west sussex.


Glad to see that it's gone head and been filmed


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## emmaviolet

I'm very glad that the cowboy traders have done something.

This is a step in the right direction, no matter what PF they have done it for at least the public will be more aware of how they operate and what to look for, although I really think there will never be an end to it, as even on here people want a cute and cheep puppy when they know better!


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## starter25

This is just awful and the picture in the first post linked website makes me so angry and sad, she looks just like our old dog lilly.

Lilly was a 7 year old breeding bitch rescued from a welsh puppy farm and 
re-homed to us via waggy tails rescue Waggy Tails Rescue | Dog Rescue Dorset

The first 7 years of her life were just like that dog in the photo whilst i knew where she came from i could not imagine what the place was like.

The next seven years she was a much loved pet living with a loving family, i remember when she first came trotting round the corner she was so excited to finally be living her life, she passed away age 14 back in 2007, if you can look after a rescue dog please do, knowing you gave a loving home to a unwanted animal is every bit as fun and rewarding if not more than a cute new puppy (as lovely as they are too).


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## Maire23

It's terrible how these dogs are treated. When you see a puppy in a shop, you may want to buy it just to rescue it but you have to keep in mind that this is only perpetuating this practice. Far better to get one from a shelter.


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## michellequeens

Wow opened my eyes


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## Jessjess

Me and my boyfriend just adopted a four year old ex breeding Westie, she had never lived in a house before or even taken for a walk before she was given away when they couldn't make any more money from her pups! She was very underweight and her teeth a ears etc were never looked at, she was just there to breed, they couldn't even say how many litters she had had. Anyone who can leave a dog like that and not care, doesn't have a heart.


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## caninecentre

I have just been involved in exposing a puppy farm in West Sussex.
I went along to this place on the understanding that I was there to help the owners to breed healthy dogs. What I found disgusted me to the core. To be fair the puppies were kept in good accommodation and the kennel hand was very good regardless of the owners abusing her good nature. I take my hat of to the kennel hand as she was trying her best but the owners just were not listening. The Kennel hand wanted to leave but the thought of leaving those puppies in the hands of the owners was unbearable to her. 

There system of breeding was to place one and sometimes two male dogs in with mixed breeds of bitches and see what comes out. These puppies were then sold as "Designer Puppies" and were going for £500-£800 each!This system often lead to fights that weren't dealt with until the next day. I also found any area that looked like it had been dug up on a number of occasion and the dogs and birds was paying a lot of attention to it. I suspected that this might be where the injured or unhealthy dogs would be found. I also found a dog which had a problem with one it's eyes and another with a mucus discharge from his parts and large red sore on his belly. On finding these dogs I informed the owners that a Vet is required and there answer was that they will get it done today. So I gave them the benefit of the doubt and returned the next day and 'surprise surprise' the owners had not sort any medical attention. I offered to take them to their vet myself but the information regarding their vet was not forth coming. Their answer to the health problems was to put some cream on the sore! I stated that the cream will not help the eye of the dog or the discharge coming from the other. At this stage the male owner started to get abusive and threatening, but being an ex-para the intimidation didn't work. But I left after going to see the kennel hand and taking photos of the injured dogs, much to the owners disgust.

That afternoon I contacted the local press and the local council. After a few weeks the owners were prosecuted in a court of law. The suspicious dug over ground was indeed a puppy burial ground. 

I did not feel good about any of the process and I am left wondering how many more are out there and what can be done about it.


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## b3ast1e

Tigerneko said:


> There's a puppy farm near me.
> 
> Apparently the puppies are kept in good conditions (for a puppy farm), but they're not brought up in the home.
> 
> Their website lists 12 different breeds, as well as "many more"
> 
> Those puppies cannot be properly looked after :frown2:


As was said in a puppy mill closure video I watched on You Tube recently (good grief, too horrible for words), even a well run prison is still a prison. And as the Guardian reported a while back, it's a horrible irony that most people who own dogs do so because they crave the companionship, which is the very thing the parents of these battery puppies are deprived of all their miserable, desolate lives. Among a myriad other things, like fresh water, adequate feeding, light, space, all the things we define as essential for life to flourish.

A good percentage of our species is pretty warped and seemingly bereft of even trace amounts of compassion when it comes to animals. Mind boggling.


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## b3ast1e

Big bully said:


> What I can not get my head around is why and how does this still happen? In the States puppy farms are ilegal, yet here nobody other than the likes of us give a toss! I have seen video's that made my cry and vomit and to think that ill educated people still buy from these places! :mad2:


I don't think that's the case. Certainly not according to this:

ASPCA | Laws That Protect Dogs in Puppy Mills

In any case, I've seen enough puppy mill investigative videos lately to know that there are apparently 1000s of them operating there, many in Pennsylvania, and Missouri has been called "the puppy mill capital of the USA" according to a wikipedia entry, which also says that the state actually repealed legislative measures intended to further limit their ability to operate.

So unfortunately no, it can't be said that puppy farms are illegal in the US, any more than our own Breeding and Sale of Dogs Act has stopped them from operating here.


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## missRV

Hows the best way to expose a puppy farm?


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## The Fervid Pig

Just been reading the story about Jake the Cocker Spaniel posted in the original link, very sad. Many years ago my mum had a dog, a miniture poodle called Gyp, bought from a local puppy seller who displayed many similar symptoms to Jake. Most of the time he was a lovely friendly very intelligent dog, but now and again he would attack without any provocation, you could just be sitting watching TV and all of a sudden he'd go for you teeth gnashing and growling. He also had problems with ear mites which meant regular visits to the vet. She had him for about 8 years before he was finally PTS due to his aggression and problems with his ears. I'd never heard about Rage before reading that but I'm wondering if poor Gyp was a victim.


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## pussnpups

Very interesting reading indeed, I myself never new these existed until recently, it breaks my heart to see these pore helpless animals being treated this way. I hope that something will be done soon, but unfortunatly as said before as long as people continue to purchase these pups then they will continue to breed them in these farms


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## ackerleynelson

Terrible... It opened my eyes...


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## caninecentre

missRV said:


> Hows the best way to expose a puppy farm?


The way I did it was by contacting the council first. Any animal establishment has to be licensed by the local council, that should be your first port of call. Secondly, inform the local press, I would suggest by telephone so you get to speak to someone and get a name to follow up if you need to. If you are struggling to get any movement on the issue you should contact your local MP, they hate the thought of a puppy farm in there town.

Good luck


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## Bobbie

Just thought people might find this rather annoying as I do.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...8582649.104112.446313758735098&type=1&theater


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## koda

:-/ disgusting


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## ackerleynelson

Thanks for sharing these great posts.


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## Mandy D

Please sign and share

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49528


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## Bobbie

NEW WELSH BREEDING REGULATIONS! | cariadcampaign


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## Meena1

I don't agree wi puppy farms their horrible places feel sorry for the mum and puppy's


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## ackerleynelson

Nice post.. . Thanks for sharing...


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## loverotts

Ditsy42 said:


> These pup farmers live in the North East, also breed German lines in Rotts, I exposed them on a Rott forum awhile ago and believe it or not, they have started showing the Rotts, got the brass neck 2 turn up at KC champ shows, really pisses me off but nowt u can do about them, I ofund no fewer than 6 adverts on pre loved etc selling all sorts of breeds by the same seller at the same address
> 
> Owners claim Copwell Kennels sold sick dogs - Sunday Sun
> 
> BBC Inside Out -
> 
> Steinhugle Rottweilers


Hi ditsy,
can you give me more info on this person, nearly came unstuck to give £100 deposit for a rott pup, can we message?


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## Figaro

Sadly, I suspect someone I know has just bought one of these type of pups. Husband bought it 'on a whim' prob because he saw it cheap, it's a 'blue' staffie, they say they paid £200 and drove to Wales (about 100) miles from where we live. I haven't seen it yet, I'm sure he is adorable. Not sure whether to poke my nose in or not because apparently it came from a lovely house and both parents could be seen and were well looked after...but I think they've been very naive as soon as I heard Wales and the amount they paid, alarm bells rang. They already have one staffy who is a softy and I know this boy will be well loved and a forever home but Grrrr! at the same time!


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## ackerleynelson

clueless said:


> Great Link. Hope you do not mind but I think this one is appropriate here as well
> The Backyard Breeders' and Puppy Millers' Big Book of Old Excuses


I checked this link and this is really good.....


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