# Look what i got today...



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Ilove it


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

I'd like one of those ............. For the O/H too 


Looks fab Sara x


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

lol thanx shirl :thumbup1:


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Am well gel ... That Sara finds all the bargains


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Am well gel ... That Sara finds all the bargains


Your time will come my little grasshopper


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

This is lovely! My mentor has one of those. :thumbup1:


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Kotanushka said:


> This is lovely! My mentor has one of those. :thumbup1:


Does s/he? ,its going to come in handy for keeping little fingers off my babies lol.


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## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

That's fab! Loads of room for them


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Time flies said:


> That's fab! Loads of room for them


Totally timeflies,just want to try it out now lol.

I know of a corner penthouse going if anyone is interested.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

Love it, you must be pleased with that, it's brilliant.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

It looks very posh.

Do you plan to put the children in it when you fancy five minutes peace?


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

That is the absolute business !


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I've just noticed how BIG it is, finishing not far from the ceiling! Forgive me for being dim but what on Earth would you use it for?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Firedog said:


> It looks very posh.
> http://www.petforums.co.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1063501982#
> Do you plan to put the children in it when you fancy five minutes peace?


Lol nah..would need something sound proof for them :lol:


wicket said:


> That is the absolute business !


Thank you wicket do you have one?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I've just noticed how BIG it is, finishing not far from the ceiling! Forgive me for being dim but what on Earth would you use it for?


Lol,well currently the kittens have the hallway however it means that i have to keep pram infront of door and is a bit awkward really,so with this i can get my hallway back and kittens can go in this plus be in living room with us and be safe from kids.

Here it is... Mansion | Penthouse Products Cat Pens


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I forget you have a new baby and all the associated paraphernalia! Do the kittens not object to being in a pen though? Or do you mean just whilst they are very small and not reliable with the litter trays?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Here it is... Mansion | Penthouse Products Cat Pens


Is that the same one? Only 159cm tall, do you have low ceilings?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Is that the same one? Only 159cm tall, do you have low ceilings?


Will measure later,looks about 2 metre,i have casters on aswell though.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I forget you have a new baby and all the associated paraphernalia! Do the kittens not object to being in a pen though? Or do you mean just whilst they are very small and not reliable with the litter trays?


Iv not used it yet,i guess that young kittens wont mind,door can be left open through the night when everyone is in bed the kids i mean.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Will measure later,looks about 2 metre,i have casters on aswell though.


They'd be tall casters if it's the same model and made it 2m high 

The linked one also isn't very deep, but useful for a few weeks after birth and gets them out your hallway as you said.

They're a popular style with US breeders I've seen who cage their cats.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> They'd be tall casters if it's the same model and made it 2m high
> 
> The linked one also isn't very deep, but useful for a few weeks after birth and gets them out your hallway as you said.
> 
> They're a popular style with US breeders I've seen who cage their cats.


Iv no idea what the actual size is size is as i cant find a tape measure,just been to shed but cant see one.

ETA just asked OH he says its about 6ft,which isnt far off 2 meter,also it is next to my window and outside we have 6ft fence and the kitten pen is just a bit bigger but we have the casters so yes i would say 6 ft.

This is an earlier model so maybe they changed their sizes not sure really but i do know its took a full wall up in my dining room,as we are open plan so two room in one if you get me.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

Looks good but would look better filled:laugh:


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jill3 said:


> Looks good but would look better filled:laugh:


Oh i agree jill..just need some kittens now.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

It's perfect Sara .. It's deep and high Enuff for your needs . A lot safer and easy to clean ..


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> It's perfect Sara .. It's deep and high Enuff for your needs . A lot safer and easy to clean ..


Agree rach totally,safe for the kittens to keep them from the toddler.Like you say easy to wipe down and clean too,just got to add a ramp so they can use the upper level.

Not just that but keeps other cats from getting to close to the little ones,sometimes mums can be really vicious towards other girls when they have young i have found.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Not just that but keeps other cats from getting to close to the little ones,sometimes mums can be really vicious towards other girls when they have young i have found.


Perhaps a separate room would be better if your girls are that stressed.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Perhaps a separate room would be better if your girls are that stressed.


Well yes clearly.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Oh how nice it would be to live in the perfect world hey 

These double pens ( sorry cages) are designed perfectly for the job to keep mum and kitten safe and away from harms way they are not in them 24/7 

We all don't have spare rooms in our houses to accommodation several litters 

Just because its doesn't suit you or your needs , there is no need to jump on someone because it suit them 

My litters are penned where mum feels safe and relaxed , happy mum equal happy kittens ... I dont see any issues with doing this ... If my kitten were left to roam they would be in more danger and I prefer to not have injuries or death by not do what I do


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> Oh how nice it would be to live in the perfect world hey
> 
> These double pens ( sorry cages) are designed perfectly for the job to keep mum and kitten safe and away from harms way they are not in them 24/7
> 
> ...


No one was jumping, but I'm sure if anyone else, a newbie perhaps, wrote that mum was stressed by other cats the advice would be to move her not just shove her in a pen where she can still see and be seen.

Personally I planned out breeding and moved house to ensure I'd have enough space, as many I know have done.

Nothing wrong with penning until litter trained, but that's not what was said.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

We all plan out our litters and accommodation .. It's not always possible and you have to work with what you have got don't you hence this thread 


I would love a six bedroom house with 2 acres of land but it's not going to happen and I don't really need it


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

Please do not get upset, ladies! There are people on this forum from different countries, right? 
And the average size of a house in Australia and USA is a bit different from the one in UK? I personally live in a little 2-bedroom house in London and see no shame in it. 

What matters is how much you care for your furry and non-furry family and I am sure all the frequenters of this forum do!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I have mixed feelings about indoor pens and penning queens/kittens and I do see both sides here. I must be frank and say that I dont like the industrial look of these type of pens. That said, I did want to buy one last year (OH put his foot down - no way am I having one those in those house) because theyre incredibly sturdy, practical and easy to clean. I ended up with two new wooden Rhampaws pens which, as it turned out, I rarely use anyway due to worsening arthritis and the fact that I cannot keep constantly kneeling down to floor level to clean up the mass destruction which I find happens with energetic, playful kittens when theyre confined to a relatively small space.

I do have a very large, older Rhampaws pen erected permanently in my kitchen (which is disproportionately large compared to the size of my very small home) which I really couldnt be without for those moments or a couple of hours when its just not safe to have the kittens loose around the house. But I do remember what its like, trying to combine a young family, breeding cats and available space; compromise has to be made both ways to keep everyone safe and happy. Years, on, where I no longer have the need (or the ability for the most part) to pen queens and kittens none would tolerate them; the queens not AT all and the kittens will so noisily object after a short while I cant wait to let them out!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> No one was jumping, but I'm sure if anyone else, a newbie perhaps, wrote that mum was stressed by other cats the advice would be to move her not just shove her in a pen where she can still see and be seen.
> 
> Personally I planned out breeding and moved house to ensure I'd have enough space, as many I know have done.
> 
> Nothing wrong with penning until litter trained, but that's not what was said.


Excuse me..no you said the word 'stressed' ..i said some girls can become vicious towards one another when young is around.Some girls will tolerate others wont.

Iv had this happen once and yes they were separated so get off your high horse will you.Tbh you have nit picked at me for weeks.

Dont slate me cause i got a kittening pen to keep my kittens safe,and dont put words into my mouth for the record the penthouse door will be open through the night not that i have to justify myself to you.

Sorry peeps rant over.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I have mixed feelings about indoor pens and penning queens/kittens and I do see both sides here. I must be frank and say that I dont like the industrial look of these type of pens. That said, I did want to buy one last year (OH put his foot down - no way am I having one those in those house) because theyre incredibly sturdy, practical and easy to clean. I ended up with two new wooden Rhampaws pens which, as it turned out, I rarely use anyway due to worsening arthritis and the fact that I cannot keep constantly kneeling down to floor level to clean up the mass destruction which I find happens with energetic, playful kittens when theyre confined to a relatively small space.
> 
> I do have a very large, older Rhampaws pen erected permanently in my kitchen (which is disproportionately large compared to the size of my very small home) which I really couldnt be without for those moments or a couple of hours when its just not safe to have the kittens loose around the house. But I do remember what its like, trying to combine a young family, breeding cats and available space; compromise has to be made both ways to keep everyone safe and happy. Years, on, where I no longer have the need (or the ability for the most part) to pen queens and kittens none would tolerate them; the queens not AT all and the kittens will so noisily object after a short while I cant wait to let them out!


Thank your D for writing that see these are very fair points put across in a nice manor and agree with all you have said there.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Thank your D for writing that see these are very fair points put across in a nice manor and agree with all you have said there.


Getting old has its benefits. You have the luxury of spare bedrooms that you can nicely kit out as a kittening room and kitten pens become a thing of the past


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> Getting old has its benefits. You have the luxury of spare bedrooms that you can nicely kit out as a kittening room and kitten pens become a thing of the past


I know exactly what you mean there D..my time will come lol. Oh i how i long for those days.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> Getting old has its benefits. You have the luxury of spare bedrooms that you can nicely kit out as a kittening room and kitten pens become a thing of the past


i keep asking my kids when will they be leaving home but they must like me too much as they want to stay 
if i had spare rooms i could help far more rescue cats but for now they have my kitchen and full access to the side of the house giving them lots of space to play. i know some people don't agree with how i do it, but tough, it's my choice and the cats and kittens are perfectly safe and well looked after. you carry on with the way you are doing things WLBSH, it suits your lifestyle and the cats/kittens are well cared for and healthy and that's what matters


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

cats galore said:


> i keep asking my kids when will they be leaving home but they must like me too much as they want to stay
> <snip>


Have you tried charging them for board & lodging?


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Have you tried charging them for board & lodging?


it's difficult as my eldest is 21 and in uni, then my daughter is 16 and in college so no money for either of them. we keep them them instead. my youngest is only 12 so i can't really expect him to leave just yet tbh, i don't my eldest will leave at all. he has special needs and struggles to deal with people etc and home is his safe place. looks like i'll have to move the kids into the sheds instead


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

tincan said:


> I'd like one of those ............. For the O/H too
> 
> Looks fab Sara x


Looks perfect for the children as well.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Many moons ago when I was fostering kittens for Cpl I also had toddlers, the rules was we had to use a kittening pen to keep kittens safe.

Luckily for me now the children are grown up although I don't have a spare room I can use most of the home for kittens, although I don't like pens I do have one queen who will only have kittens born in a pen, she feels safe and secure, I tried without a pen for her last year and almost lost her to stress as she just didn't feel safe.

So although I really don't like pens, if its a must to keep babies safe from being picked up by young hands then it is a must, you have to do what mum and babies need, if that means a safe pen then so be it.

What ever method to ensure a safe litter and a content mum is priority.

Its when you cramp kittens and mum into a tiny pen then I disagree with that.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I think many breeders have different views on and different ways of bringing up their kittens. So long as they aren't ill treated there's room in life for the variety.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Kotanushka said:


> And the average size of a house in Australia and USA is a bit different from the one in UK? I personally live in a little 2-bedroom house in London and see no shame in it.


Varying sizes here, go for what suits. I know breeders in small places, they just limit their numbers to say 2 queens and use outside studs, that way there is plenty of room for kittens too 

We also have minimum requirements for outdoor runs, studs need room to move about and run, for those who can't have a big enough run they use others studs. Simple


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

A lot of breeder in the UK keep their girls and boys outside in luxury pens and housing ... This is for many reasons

Have a look, home from home ... In fact better they just love it my lot

I could also let my girls birth outside but I don't

Cattery Manufacturers | Pedigree Pens Ltd | uPVC Catteries | Cat Pens


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

I must be a weirdo as I keep kittens and their mom in my bedroom until they're big enough to socialize with the other cats and to be allowed to run around the rest of the (rather small) apartment.
And I've kept studs indoors.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Cosmills said:


> A lot of breeder in the UK keep their girls and boys outside in luxury pens and housing ... This is for many reasons
> 
> Have a look, home from home ... In fact better they just love it my lot
> 
> ...


I know they're practical, I know they'd probably last for years and be virtually maintenance free, easy to clean and so on. But nothing could persuade me to erect acres of white plastic in my garden  But I'll freely admit to being a bit old fashioned and traditionalist!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

NorthernDarkness said:


> I must be a weirdo as I keep kittens and their mom in my bedroom until they're big enough to socialize with the other cats and to be allowed to run around the rest of the (rather small) apartment.
> And I've kept studs indoors.


Very normal  all born in my room then moved to the lounge, and later free to roam the house.
I keep my stud inside too, it's very common among the European breeders that I know  pets first, breeding cats second


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

NorthernDarkness said:


> I must be a weirdo as I keep kittens and their mom in my bedroom until they're big enough to socialize with the other cats and to be allowed to run around the rest of the (rather small) apartment.
> And I've kept studs indoors.


I have a kittening room upstairs, but rubes will be in with me this time , it too cold for them to be in there without the heating on 24/7 , we sleep downstairs so alot warmer for them , they come out when big enough to socialise but penned when am not about ...

I would love my stud boy in but I don't like his aftershave that much


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Yes we get it you dont do things the way others do does that make you better..jeez!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> Very normal  all born in my room then moved to the lounge, and later free to roam the house.
> I keep my stud inside too, it's very common among the European breeders that I know  pets first, breeding cats second


Are you saying breeder that kept they cats in purpose build catteries don't consider them as pets first


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

spotty cats said:


> Very normal  all born in my room then moved to the lounge, and later free to roam the house.
> I keep my stud inside too, it's very common among the European breeders that I know  pets first, breeding cats second


How do you manage with a stud boy indoors? I know it's very common amongst many European (UK aside) breeders and I'm well aware they think us quite odd, keeping cats in "sheds in the garden". Of the boys I've owned, not that many actually although over three decades, three sprayed and would have done so a whole lot more, kept in close(r) proximity to the girls indoors. Two never sprayed but their litter trays stank to high heaven.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

By the looks of it rach anyone who has a cattery (nearly every breeder i know) has just been slated in that last sweeping comment.

I personally have my own view on studs been indoors its not for me but i dont slate those who do,each to their own isnt it.

ETA not aimed at the poster above btw im just late in replying.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Define Pet cats and Breeding cats ... I don't see the difference


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> How do you manage with a stud boy indoors? I know it's very common amongst many European (UK aside) breeders and I'm well aware they think us quite odd, keeping cats in "sheds in the garden". Of the boys I've owned, not that many actually although over three decades, three sprayed and would have done so a whole lot more, kept in close(r) proximity to the girls indoors. Two never sprayed but their litter trays stank to high heaven.


He doesn't spray or smell. It's also far too hot for him to be outside at the moment, so most all breeders have their boys inside right now, some in rooms others in large pens.
Makes brushfire activation plans easier too


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Even if my boy didnt smell I couldn't have him Indoors roaming and coundnt lock him in a room cos that not in his best interest as a pet or mine if I had the girls in 

I would have a few ooopppps litters that's for sure


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I would love my stud indoors but even with stud pants he would always harass the girls, so for me this wouldn't work due to fights all the time.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> I would love my stud indoors but even with stud pants he would always harass the girls, so for me this wouldn't work due to fights all the time.


I also wondered about that cause a calling girl will do anything to get to a boy,as would a boy to get to the girl.Clearly does work for some but no idea how its managed.

Didnt think about the fights caused but yes i can imagine thats not good.xx


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Cosmills said:


> Define Pet cats and Breeding cats ... I don't see the difference


I hope I can manage to say this without sounding patronising or like I think I know it all. I'm really not like that and anything I do say isn't, I promise you, a comment based upon how I feel about anyone chatting on this thread as I don't know any of you personally.

I *know* that for many breeders I've visited and/or know personally I find it quite easy to define where I see 'cherished pet' and 'breeding cat'. It might seem quite an extreme example but it isn't so uncommon but to give that example... I know a breeder who has a (two, actually) large block of those UPVC pens; the building is completely enclosed with, also inside, an escape run along its length. The whole of the glazing is frosted so that, once inside, you cannot see out even if you were 6' tall, let alone a 1 foot high cat with a wall of UPVC as your view.

The cats are beautiful, well cared for, the cattery spotless. The breeder a lovely young woman who works hard at her hobby and shows extensively and successfully. And all I can feel, looking at those cats lined up in their little plastic prisons, is sadness. Nobody will tell me they are pets.

Whilst that is, I know, a rather extreme example I've personally seen too many breeders, with too many cats, lined up in outdoor pens. Their numbers are sufficient that they haven't a hope of giving those cats a semblance of indoor, family life. Those aren't pet cats either.

Contrary to what some aspiring to do well with breeding/showing believe, it isn't necessary to have wall to wall cats which inevitably necessitates the need for prolonged penning, whether indoor or out. THE most successful (in all respects) breeder/exhibitor of British Shorthair cats in the last few decades and whose lines are still sought after today never kept more than 3 queens and one stud at any time. She was successful because her focus was quality and not quantity and without a shadow of doubt, her cats had a better quality of life than do many "breeding cats" as a result.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

At the end of the day , what's good for one person isn't always the case for the other 

We all do our very best for our pets and am sure if they were unhappy we would change things to accommodate their needs .. I know I would 

Some things we like others we don't , we are not on here to be judge for the thing we do or don't do 

I suggest if you don't have anything constructive to say then stay don't posts

It simple ..


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> I hope I can manage to say this without sounding patronising or like I think I know it all. I'm really not like that and anything I do say isn't, I promise you, a comment based upon how I feel about anyone chatting on this thread as I don't know any of you personally.
> 
> I *know* that for many breeders I've visited and/or know personally I find it quite easy to define where I see 'cherished pet' and 'breeding cat'. It might seem quite an extreme example but it isn't so uncommon but to give that example... I know a breeder who has a (two, actually) large block of those UPVC pens; the building is completely enclosed with, also inside, an escape run along its length. The whole of the glazing is frosted so that, once inside, you cannot see out even if you were 6' tall, let alone a 1 foot high cat with a wall of UPVC as your view.
> 
> ...


Not patronising at all .. I can see were you are coming from I really do

I have also seen breeders with lots of cats indoors with the family and to be honest I wiped my feet on the way out, the cats didnt look healthy at all , dirty and the houses were in bad condition , so is that a pet, yes loved to death but there is a very fine line


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I hope I can manage to say this without sounding patronising or like I think I know it all. I'm really not like that and anything I do say isn't, I promise you, a comment based upon how I feel about anyone chatting on this thread as I don't know any of you personally.
> 
> I *know* that for many breeders I've visited and/or know personally I find it quite easy to define where I see 'cherished pet' and 'breeding cat'. It might seem quite an extreme example but it isn't so uncommon but to give that example... I know a breeder who has a (two, actually) large block of those UPVC pens; the building is completely enclosed with, also inside, an escape run along its length. The whole of the glazing is frosted so that, once inside, you cannot see out even if you were 6' tall, let alone a 1 foot high cat with a wall of UPVC as your view.
> 
> ...


Think i know the breeder you are talking about.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Cosmills said:


> Not patronising at all .. I can see were you are coming from I really do
> 
> I have also seen breeders with lots of cats indoors with the family and to be honest I wiped my feet on the way out, the cats didnt look healthy at all , dirty and the houses were in bad condition , so is that a pet, yes loved to death but there is a very fine line


Believe me, I've seen the same and too many times.  They wouldn't get my 'custom' in any regard. But neither does the breeder who is current flavour of the month with a dozen or more spotlessly imprisoned cats.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> Believe me, I've seen the same and too many times. They wouldn't get my 'custom' in any regard. But neither does the breeder who is current flavour of the month with a dozen or more spotlessly imprisoned cats.


Like you say it quality not quantity ,, low numbers is and always will be my program... Big is not always best


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> How do you manage with a stud boy indoors?


My last one wasn't a sprayer, and never smelled like a stud (he was intact for 6 years). He was also very kind, never hostile towards other cats. He left my females alone because he was lower in the 'pack hierarchy', he would only try anything if a female was calling. Obviously I didn't leave him in the same area with the females if I wasn't at home, just in case. He used his son as a toyboy, so he didn't get frustrated either, and his son didn't seem to mind the 'arrangement' (he's a pet neuter). This stud was my friendliest cat.

I had another stud who did spray and smell. I managed with him by simply covering some furniture and cleaning more..

I've been wondering what kind of weather can the outdoor catteries handle? Like what is the coldest/hottest temperature they can usually be used in? One reason we don't use those here is the fact that it can get very cold (it's -20C here in the south atm) and there is a risk of predators (wolf, bear, lynx, fox, wolverine, human, eagle, owl etc.). Also most people here in the capital city area live in apartments so do not have a yard, people with actual houses live usually somewhere further unless they're filthy rich.. or committing suicides due to a ridiculous mortage (it's very expensive over here).

Getting more off topic here, but someone mentioned wiping their feet when leaving a messy cattery.. So I have to ask something which has bothered me for quite some time: do people really wear shoes indoors where ever in the world you are located in? A friend of mine told me this years ago after living in Ireland and we always wondered how annoying it must be to clean after that.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> By the looks of it rach anyone who has a cattery (nearly every breeder i know)
> <snip>


Only one of the breeders I've visited keeps girls in a cattery. The rest of them have their girls living in the house, helping them watch TV, trying to taste their food for them, making sure the bogey man doesn't get them at night, and saving them from the dangers of loo rolls, paper tissues and empty cardboard boxes.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

NorthernDarkness said:


> My last one wasn't a sprayer, and never smelled like a stud (he was intact for 6 years). He was also very kind, never hostile towards other cats. He left my females alone because he was lower in the 'pack hierarchy', he would only try anything if a female was calling. Obviously I didn't leave him in the same area with the females if I wasn't at home, just in case. He used his son as a toyboy, so he didn't get frustrated either, and his son didn't seem to mind the 'arrangement' (he's a pet neuter). This stud was my friendliest cat.
> 
> I had another stud who did spray and smell. Unfortunately this stud came to me from a breeder (not his original breeder though) who had kept him confined in one room which was divided in half, there were 6 males in that room.. So when I got him he was very shy due to getting very little attention from people (the breeder had 13+ cats in their apartment), scared of "open spaces", like a regular room was too much for him. He spent most of his time in the bathroom which was the smallest room I had. Poor thing. I managed with him by simply covering some furniture and cleaning more..
> 
> ...


Wow that must be really cool (in some ways maybe not) to have all those animals around i would love that.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Only one of the breeders I've visited keeps girls in a cattery. The rest of them have their girls living in the house, helping them watch TV, trying to taste their food for them, making sure the bogey man doesn't get them at night, and saving them from the dangers of loo rolls, paper tissues and empty cardboard boxes.


This is the gods honest truth i can think of 6 breeders i know personally off the top of my head who have their girls in the cattery too,im sure i know of alot more but that is just a quick off top of my head count up..like i said earlier each to their own,so long as none are ill treated and are well cared for and needs met there is no issue imo.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

NorthernDarkness said:


> I've been wondering what kind of weather can the outdoor catteries handle? Like what is the coldest/hottest temperature they can usually be used in? One reason we don't use those here is the fact that it can get very cold (it's -20C here in the south atm) and there is a risk of predators (wolf, bear, lynx, fox, wolverine, human, eagle, owl etc.). Also most people here in the capital city area live in apartments so do not have a yard, people with actual houses live usually somewhere further unless they're filthy rich.. or committing suicides due to a ridiculous mortage (it's very expensive over here).
> 
> Getting more off topic here, but someone mentioned wiping their feet when leaving a messy cattery.. So I have to ask something which has bothered me for quite some time: do people really wear shoes indoors where ever in the world you are located in? A friend of mine told me this years ago after living in Ireland and we always wondered how annoying it must be to clean after that.


It's quite interesting to read of the differences from country to country  I've visited a number of breeders in Germany and Holland who kept an indoor stud but only for a few hours each time so you don't really get to understand how things are or how things are managed day after day. I have sense that when it comes to keeping a male in the house that success may depend upon how you start with him when he's young. I do have a breeder friend here in the UK who, actually knowing no different, never did provide her young male with outdoor accommodation and, now at 9 years old, lives in her home (separate from the girls) with no problems. I still can't quite believe that I'd ever have been able to achieve that with one of mine!

The weather in the UK, particularly in the south, wouldn't very often drop below freezing point. Yes, we can have spells of colder weather through a few winter months but not cold enough to be of concern for a stud in well made, insulated, dry, comfortable heated outdoor housing. Unfortunately, some are kept in poor conditions... but that can be the case even with indoor kept studs I would imagine.

Cosmills was sort of joking about 'wiping her feet on the way out'  It's a saying in the UK to mean that the house was filthy. And yup, a lot - the vast majority - of home owners would not ask visitors to remove their shoes...


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

NorthernDarkness said:


> My last one wasn't a sprayer, and never smelled like a stud (he was intact for 6 years). He was also very kind, never hostile towards other cats. He left my females alone because he was lower in the 'pack hierarchy', he would only try anything if a female was calling. Obviously I didn't leave him in the same area with the females if I wasn't at home, just in case.


I have a boy just the same, such a sweet soul never bothers the girls at all, and of course never left unattended with them. He loves seeing his kittens and playing with them. Lives happily with neuters. 
My girls aren't left to call, and it's not a made difference to their heat cycles at all having him around.

My new boy is being kept inside with his breeder until he's allowed to be exported, if he behaves he can be inside, others he won't, weather permitting.



NorthernDarkness said:


> I've been wondering what kind of weather can the outdoor catteries handle? Like what is the coldest/hottest temperature they can usually be used in?


I don't know anything about cold weather. But here we are currently having another 7-10 day period of 40c-46c cats easily suffer heat stroke in those temps, so boys are brought in to be in the air conditioned house. 
Sometimes they can go outside at night for a run around in their pens when it cools to 32c-34c, but that's also when the (deadly) snakes are out since they can't during the day...you know Oz ND :lol:

Most people don't wear shoes inside their own homes here, but many consider it rude to ask a guest to remove theirs.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

OrientalSlave said:


> Only one of the breeders I've visited keeps girls in a cattery. The rest of them have their girls living in the house, helping them watch TV, trying to taste their food for them, making sure the bogey man doesn't get them at night, and saving them from the dangers of loo rolls, paper tissues and empty cardboard boxes.


Yep sounds about right for here....visitors always get a coffee but not always a place on the sofa and the ambush posse are always waiting on the stairs!!!!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lisajjl1 said:


> Yep sounds about right for here....visitors always get a coffee but not always a place on the sofa and the ambush posse are always waiting on the stairs!!!!


Lovely photos and yes, forgot to mention that we need saving from sofas as well incase we get bad backs! It's quite amazing they let us share their bed...


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

OrientalSlave said:


> Lovely photos and yes, forgot to mention that we need saving from sofas as well incase we get bad backs! It's quite amazing they let us share their bed...


Hows this for an interesting dinner party waiting to happen....that's my Fawn Point stud boy at front, waiting for his tea!

oh ermmm....and my other stud wearing his pink fairy wings!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lisajjl1 said:


> Hows this for an interesting dinner party waiting to happen....that's my Fawn Point stud boy at front, waiting for his tea!
> 
> oh ermmm....and my other stud wearing his pink fairy wings!


Someone should tell your daughter that pink isn't his colour!

BTW I almost never wear shoes indoors, I do wear thick socks in winter to keep my feet warm. I got a pair of mock-Crocs for £1 in the bargain box at Lidl and keep those by the back door for when it's too cold to go out in the back garden bare-foot.


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