# OMGoodnessme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

stack of 4 cages ideal for dwarf rabbits guinea pigs ferrets | eBay

Can't be wider than 1.5 ft!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am shaking....my single mice are in bigger cages!!


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## wacky (Jan 23, 2011)

omg they are awfull


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Absolutely awful
I pity the poor creature that ends up in that cramped dump


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## helebelina (Nov 11, 2009)

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is all far too common, which upsets me to the core. :mad5: And much of it due to ignorance i'm sure. I SO wish the RSPCA would get a hold of this situation and get some education campaign going for all rabbit owners. It breaks my heart that rabbits are the 3rd most popular pet in the UK, yet still the most neglected. 

I think an educational email to the poster is called for....


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

I have emailed them grrr. Couldn't believe it!!


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## helebelina (Nov 11, 2009)

Thank you. I have too. Tried to be educational and not too vindictive.  Truly believe most rabbit owners act in ignorance of the needs of a rabbit. Again, empahisising my point that the RPSCA really do have a duty on this to hold some campaign to educate rabbit owners on the day to day needs of a rabbit. :mad5: I for one, owned a rabbit when I was a kid and had NO idea that 80% of a rabbits diet should be hay. I am wracked with guilt that as a result of this he had teeth problems.  A suitable campaign from the RSPCA would solve this and make the quality of life of rabbits much more pleasant everywhere. :thumbup1:


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

This is what I got back...



> pmsl was made by proper pet shop lol ill be passing this to ebay you sad person whats up carnt afford it


Good luck helebelina.

I am reporting the ad, not that it will do any good, unless a few of us do it maybe? Unlikely but hopefully poster will be educated!


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## helebelina (Nov 11, 2009)

Got a nasty email back from the bitch!! Yes, that is not a word I use lightly. I CANNOT believe her attitude! This was her response!! GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! OK, so she wants to send a copy to ebay!!!! Do that then!!

_lol what aload of rubbish hun these cages are sold on here daily hun same size and is big enough thanks for interest not interest what rspca they have their dogs in 4 foot by 6 foot pens thanks for interest but dont email back will be sending copy to ebay thanks
_

:mad5::mad5::mad5:

Please people support me and send some similar emails to me maybe then she'll get the message


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## helebelina (Nov 11, 2009)

[_QUOTE=niki87;1061628919]This is what I got back...

pmsl was made by proper pet shop lol ill be passing this to ebay you sad person whats up carnt afford it_

Jeez what is this woman on? If she can't afford it then don't bloody keep rabbits in the first place. Makes my blood boil :mad5:


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

helebelina said:


> [_QUOTE=niki87;1061628919]This is what I got back...
> 
> pmsl was made by proper pet shop lol ill be passing this to ebay you sad person whats up carnt afford it_
> 
> Jeez what is this woman on? If she can't afford it then don't bloody keep rabbits in the first place. Makes my blood boil :mad5:


Agreed  I have reported ad. Please people if you have a min just send a pm her. And report this unsightly ad.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

I have also emailed with a copy of the hutch isn't enough campaign leaflet, I doubt it will do any good but at least we tried 



helebelina said:


> UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is all far too common, which upsets me to the core. :mad5: And much of it due to ignorance i'm sure.* I SO wish the RSPCA would get a hold of this situation and get some education campaign going for all rabbit owners*. It breaks my heart that rabbits are the 3rd most popular pet in the UK, yet still the most neglected.
> 
> I think an educational email to the poster is called for....


This would involve the RSPCA actually doing something for the welfare of animals and not just looking for the next money making court case :mad5:


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> I have also emailed with a copy of the hutch isn't enough campaign leaflet, I doubt it will do any good but at least we tried
> 
> This would involve the RSPCA actually doing something for the welfare of animals and not just looking for the next money making court case :mad5:




I wonder if the RSPCA would employ me (voluntarily) but with an RSPCA email address, to advise online.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

niki87 said:


> I wonder if the RSPCA would employ me (voluntarily) but with an RSPCA email address, to advise online.


They might, but I know a few people that help the RSPCA and the restrictions of what they are allowed to say and do is stupid :skep:


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> They might, but I know a few people that help the RSPCA and the restrictions of what they are allowed to say and do is stupid :skep:


That is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

niki87 said:


> That is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Indeed, just one of the reasons I prefer to support smaller rescues that actually help animals.


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## jaxb05 (Apr 12, 2009)

I read the first message and looked at those horrid hutches. I immediately sent her a message not realising you guys did too ... well done!! I didn't want to sound cheeky or ignorant but this is what I sent her.

Hi what size is each cage? It looks very small for a mouse yet you have got it for dwarf rabbits. The minimum space for a rabbit is 6x2x2 - that means dwarf rabbits too. It makes me feel very sad that rabbits may be put into these cages that are far too small.


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## Hel_79 (Jun 14, 2011)

The trouble is - nobody likes to hear that they're wrong! And, unfortunately, the hostile and defensive reaction to that is more likely to trump the reaction you want most of the time!

I hate it when people justify something by saying: well, I must be right and it must be OK because it came from a shop or because somebody else does this too...etc, etc. !

It's a shame we live in such a defensive culture where nobody ever seems to be open enough to question and think about things or be prepared to learn!

My experience of speaking out about animal rights and welfare is that people really don't like being faced with an uncomfortable truth...


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## topdog2010 (Nov 29, 2011)

spoke to ebay regarding my cage it was bought of ebay and they sell alot of cages on their , not been funny ring rspca they will say the same as me they cant say or do anything at all they have dogs all other the country in kennels at 4x6 and all i will say is that their is no such law a rabbit cages has to be 6 foot so on load of rubbish these hutches have been used for dwarfs also taken to shows and also have had baby ferrets in we know the laws on animals and seen as none of you lot know us you dont have a clue we run rescue shows in west yorkshire and are well know thanks for emails regarding cages and your advice but sorry will be getting sold to the bidder and thanks for adding me on here not a bad forum cheers


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

I've approved the above post but shall be watching to make sure that this continues to be a sensible debate.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2011)

topdog2010 said:


> spoke to ebay regarding my cage it was bought of ebay and they sell alot of cages on their , not been funny ring rspca they will say the same as me they cant say or do anything at all they have dogs all other the country in kennels at 4x6 and all i will say is that their is no such law a rabbit cages has to be 6 foot so on load of rubbish these hutches have been used for dwarfs also taken to shows and also have had baby ferrets in we know the laws on animals and seen as none of you lot know us you dont have a clue we run rescue shows in west yorkshire and are well know thanks for emails regarding cages and your advice but sorry will be getting sold to the bidder and thanks for adding me on here not a bad forum cheers


Yes you are right there are no laws as such, but then no one said there was such a law, it is a guideline.

Have a read of this A Hutch is Not Enough - Rabbit Welfare Assocation & Fund (RWAF) hopefully this might help to explain why we have issues with your show boxes.

I have 2 nethies here which are the smallest breed of rabbit and I can honestly say I would NEVER put any of my rabbits in a box that small, just because they are small in size it doesn't mean they are small in personality 
Also rabbits are very social animals it has been scientifically proven that single rabbits will only display a few behaviours repeatedly and they suffer from depression which can lead to self barbering or gut stasis problems, whereas a rabbit with company will display many, many different behaviours. There is no way you could fit two rabbits into one of those boxes...

No one here has any issue with you selling your item but it would be much, much better if you advertised it as something other than rabbit accommodation as it really isn't suitable :frown2:

Just because other people do things doesn't mean it is the right thing to do, I mean if a friend jumped off a cliff would you follow?


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

To repeat what I said in my email...rabbits need a large place to run around in and the hutches simply did not offer that. It is therefore unfair to sell them under the proviso that they are suitable for rabbits, guinea pigs or ferrets, hence why I reported the ad for sold under false pretences. Saying that if you were able to modify the hutch, flip it onto the side and knowck out the floors and make it into one big long hutch for say guinea pigs, that might be better...though I don't know how possible it is, hence my suggestion of fire wood.


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## emzybabe (Jun 30, 2009)

I am disgusted that you think such a tiny space is at all suitable to keep dwarf rabbits or guinea pigs in. They are completely unsuitable and should be burnt.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Some good news...noone bid on it. Gives the seller time to mmodify it/destroy it.


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## OctodonDegus (Nov 30, 2011)

*Animal Welfare Act 2006*

Section: Promotion of welfare
(2)For the purposes of this Act, an animal's needs shall be taken to include

(a)its need for a suitable environment,

what with the evidence of the EFFECTS of keeping a rabbit in a hutch this could be considered a violation of that law.


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## bewitched (Jun 9, 2010)

My guinea pigs have a bigger bedroom!

Actually, I think I could fit that whole thing inside my rat cage!


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## OctodonDegus (Nov 30, 2011)

bewitched said:


> My guinea pigs have a bigger bedroom!
> 
> Actually, I think I could fit that whole thing inside my rat cage!


I'm with you on this one!
I could probably fit those cages in my degu cage easily ^-^;; little worrying.


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## topdog2010 (Nov 29, 2011)

Makes me laugh i will be readvertising them all the cages thanks and wont be changing them in any way i emailed the thread to the company that makes them and they laughed said they have made various cages similar for rescues and many other companys so thanks again


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

all companies care bout are profits, not pets

apparently you think along the same lines too


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## OctodonDegus (Nov 30, 2011)

topdog2010 said:


> Makes me laugh i will be readvertising them all the cages thanks and wont be changing them in any way i emailed the thread to the company that makes them and they laughed said they have made various cages similar for rescues and many other companys so thanks again


How can you truly believe a cage like this is ok for a rabbit? It way to tiny and the ones right at the top?! they are burrowing animals they don't climb trees! This cage is horrific. I cannot believe people cannot see why they are dreadful cages!? We are trying to help you and educate you.


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

I don`t know what rescues you have seen use these cages but they won`t be a very good one!!!!
These are all too common with bad rabbit breeders,my ex housemate had 2 blocks of 10 at one point,can`t remeber what breed of rabbit she had but they were bigger than nethies.
and her mum had 150 rabbits which were kept in lab cages in her garage.
My guineas have a 5foot cage and a 6ft run,and i still feel thats not enough!!
when i had rats they had a massive cage,plenty big enough for 6 rats and it only had 2 in it.
How would you feel to be kept in a room that you couldn`t stand up in,or walk around in and had to live in your own filth as there was nowhere to get away from it!!
put yourself in the animals shoes!!!


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## OctodonDegus (Nov 30, 2011)

fluffybunny2001 said:


> I don`t know what rescues you have seen use these cages but they won`t be a very good one!!!!
> These are all too common with bad rabbit breeders,my ex housemate had 2 blocks of 10 at one point,can`t remeber what breed of rabbit she had but they were bigger than nethies.
> and her mum had 150 rabbits which were kept in lab cages in her garage.
> My guineas have a 5foot cage and a 6ft run,and i still feel thats not enough!!
> ...


You are completely right!


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## Sarah+Hammies (Jul 20, 2009)

topdog2010 said:


> Makes me laugh i will be readvertising them all the cages thanks and wont be changing them in any way i emailed the thread to the company that makes them and they laughed said they have made various cages similar for rescues and many other companys so thanks again


Ridiculous! :mad5: Put yourself in the animals shoes, how would you like to live in a shoebox for the entirety of your life sitting in your own [email protected] and unable to stretch your limbs or unable to stand upright, because that is what the poor bunnies that end up being shoved in there will be subjected to.



Lil Miss said:


> all companies care bout are profits, not pets
> 
> apparently you think along the same lines too


Unfortunately a vast majority of the uneducated public will stuff their poor rabbits into completely disgusting ghastly unsuitable cages and then defend their poor decision to do so by quoting that the company they bought it off said it was okay, its easier to defend yourself than accept criticism from people who spend their lives trying to make a difference to an animals life and ultimately know what they are talking about! 

Of course these places will say its okay because they are a business, like they give a stuff about animal welfare!!! They prey on people who know no better to swallow the rubbish they feed them so they buy their products. :mad5: :frown2:



fluffybunny2001 said:


> I don`t know what rescues you have seen use these cages but they won`t be a very good one!!!!
> These are all too common with bad rabbit breeders,my ex housemate had 2 blocks of 10 at one point,can`t remeber what breed of rabbit she had but they were bigger than nethies.
> and her mum had 150 rabbits which were kept in lab cages in her garage.
> My guineas have a 5foot cage and a 6ft run,and i still feel thats not enough!!
> ...


Well said hunny!


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## bewitched (Jun 9, 2010)

topdog2010 said:


> Makes me laugh i will be readvertising them all the cages thanks and wont be changing them in any way i emailed the thread to the company that makes them and they laughed said they have made various cages similar for rescues and many other companys so thanks again


OF course the company that makes them is going to say this. Would you honestly expect them to say oh whoops, we got it wrong, let's recall them all and lose all that money.

I pity any poor animal that ends up living in them. It would be like me sticking grandma in the closet and expecting her to live there 24/7, toilet and all


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## helebelina (Nov 11, 2009)

bewitched said:


> OF course the company that makes them is going to say this. Would you honestly expect them to say oh whoops, we got it wrong, let's recall them all and lose all that money.
> 
> I pity any poor animal that ends up living in them. It would be like me sticking grandma in the closet and expecting her to live there 24/7, toilet and all


Let alone grandma, would YOU like to live in a cage where you couldn't even take two steps, or stand up, which is the same place as your toilet and where you eat too? 24/7? No escape? I think you should try shutting yourself in your car boot for 24 hours and then see if you feel the same way. My feeling is not. Now see what we're saying?


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

A couple of things...

Is it not typical for rabbit breeders to use set ups like this? The breeder one of my buns came from had a shed full of cages about half a metre square.

To the person selling the hutch, I can only echo what everyone else has said. Unfortunately for you I doubt you'll be able to sell it, let alone for that price. People only tend to buy second hand hutches if they are immaculate from my experience.


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## OctodonDegus (Nov 30, 2011)

helebelina said:


> Let alone grandma, would YOU like to live in a cage where you couldn't even take two steps, or stand up, which is the same place as your toilet and where you eat too? 24/7? No escape? I think you should try shutting yourself in your car boot for 24 hours and then see if you feel the same way. My feeling is not. Now see what we're saying?


I think a lot of people would sing a different tune if they were put in the shoes of some of these animals. I often think this when I see fish in a bowl.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 8, 2011)

Even if you combined all those cages it probably be wouldn't be big enough for the animals it's advertised for... I'd be tempted to buy it and combine them to make a little house like for my multimammates (they look like mice, but are about twice the size), but I wouldn't want to support the advertiser.

I honestly think about 99% of all the cages I've ever seen advertised are too small. I breed mealworms and they're kept in bigger cages than some of the things I've seen!

The points the seller is giving are pretty stupid. Just because it's not illegal doesn't make it right.
If it WAS made a law, it would soon be taken away. People aren't going to support the goverment if they need to replace their cages and sellers need to destroy the cages.


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

They should be firewood. And that is all.


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## OctodonDegus (Nov 30, 2011)

elmthesofties said:


> Even if you combined all those cages it probably be wouldn't be big enough for the animals it's advertised for... I'd be tempted to buy it and combine them to make a little house like for my multimammates (they look like mice, but are about twice the size), but I wouldn't want to support the advertiser.
> 
> I honestly think about 99% of all the cages I've ever seen advertised are too small. I breed mealworms and they're kept in bigger cages than some of the things I've seen!
> 
> ...


Technically it is law. Although it doesn't say "a cage should be this size" it says *its environment should be suitable*. And scientific research suggested that that is not suitable and therefore is illegal.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I saw these a good while back and was so upset the seller was selling a pair of Sandy ferrets at the time, I almost went for them, (to burn the cages and rescue the ferrets)


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I cant belive the seller admits on here that they kept baby ferret*s* in these cages Baby ferrets need alot of room to develop and grow properly.


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## OctodonDegus (Nov 30, 2011)

DKDREAM said:


> I cant belive the seller admits on here that they kept baby ferret*s* in these cages Baby ferrets need alot of room to develop and grow properly.


To be honest, I cannot believe she has kept any animal in them, my *carry cage* for my Degus is about the same size as one of those hutches.


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