# 7 month old lab pregnant ????????????????



## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi, i am new to this forum, sorry to aska question straight away but i am in a dilemma. I have two labradors one 7 month old bitch and one 20 month old male. They mated on saturday and she could be pregnant. I dont know what to do the injections are expensive and i have heard bad things and that she may not be able to breed again but then again i think she is too young to have pups and there could be complications

i dont know what to do


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

Get the injection. Surely your pups life is more important.


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## Spaniel mad (Jul 17, 2009)

7 months is deffo too young. They should have been kept apart when she was in season. I would get her to the vet asap


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

i think the positive things for her having the injection out weigh the bad 
if she is pregnant she could died, the pups could die, they could be deformed it could be a very very exspensive thing to do prob 100X the cost of the mis-mate jab if not more 

You need to get her to a vet a.s.a.p


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

You must get her to the vets asap and get her the mismate jab..........


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

Get her to the vets asap for the jab. The other choice is getting her spayed and the pups removed at the same time. Don't think about the money, think about your 7 month old lab.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> Hi, i am new to this forum, sorry to aska question straight away but i am in a dilemma. I have two labradors one 7 month old bitch and one 20 month old male. They mated on saturday and she could be pregnant. I dont know what to do the injections are expensive and i have heard bad things and that she may not be able to breed again but then again i think she is too young to have pups and there could be complications
> 
> i dont know what to do


The injection shouldn't cost a great deal, far cheaper than rearing a litter and having anything go wrong.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2009)

Get the mis-mate sooner rather and later..This is your girl we are talking about and her health would be at serious risk if this pregnacny was to continue!
Mis-mate can be give up to day 45.. but the sooner you get it done the better..
This shouldnt stop her being able to get pregnant later on at life when at a responsible age!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

poor girl agree with everyone else, she is way too young has she had all her health tests done? & the stud dog?

*Hip Scoring. *
At around a year of age, when the dogs skeleton has fully grown, an x-ray is taken of the dogs pelvis area. This x-ray is then sent from the vet to the BVA (British Vet Association). They will score this x-ray with each hip of the two hips scoring between 0 (lowest) and 53 (highest). So if both hips are scored the total that dog achieves will be between a TOTAL of 0 and 106 (2 x 53). Currently the breed average for a total of both hips sits at around 16. So dogs around or under this score have average or better than average hips to give a guide. the score can also be shown sometimes as two numbers, left hip/right hip - so, something like 5/4 (total of 9 - good) or maybe 33/21 (total of 54 - poor).

*Elbow Scoring *
A newer scheme and currently less dogs are elbow scored than hip scored. It is gaining in use and many breeders are realising the importance of checking elbows too on their breeding dogs as many 'front end' lameness problems are showing around 6 - 9 months of age and have been for many years.

Usually at the same time as the hip x-rays, a set of x-rays of each of the dogs elbows are taken under general anaesthetic. These x-rays are sent, again, to the BVA and scored, by the nature of the joint being different to a hip joint, in a slightly different way.

Elbows are EACH scored only from 0 - 3 (0 being excellent, 3 being very badly affected with problems). The small range of scores available mean that really, only dogs with a 0 score on each elbow should be bred from.

Scores are usually spoken of only as a single number - so 0, 1, 2 or 3 basically. If the score is uneven, so say, 0 (left) 1 (right) the HIGHER result is used as the dogs single score - so 1 (to indicate that he does have *some* element of problem there.)

To recap, it is the PARENTS of the litter who are scored and not the puppies. This cannot be undertaken until a year of age as a minimum but can be done at any age after this. Only dogs to be bred from are usually hip and elbow scored, there is no need to score pet puppies who are not to be bred from. The information is FOR breeder and puppy buyers to decide if the dog is suitable to be bred from. Hip and elbow scoring are done once in a dogs life only and his scores remain with him for the rest of his life. When buying a puppy, you should insist on seeing the official BVA/KC certificates with the dogs scores on. NEVER just rely on verbal assurances that the parents are scored without seeing the proof. Hip scoring has been undertaken now for around 35 years and Elbow scoring for 12 - 15 years and so the schemes are well known and well used. A breeder shows everything you need to know about them, if they do not use the health schemes, even if they seem a nice person with basically healthy looking dogs.

*Eye Test Certificate. *
This is possibly even more essential for buyers of puppies to ensure they buy only from litters where both parents have been eye tested. GPRA is 100% genetic and so the status of the parents eyes entirely affects the puppies eyes for the future. This test is not undertaken at a regular vet but by a specialist. There are many many clinics and testing sessions around the country OR you can book a private visit to one of the dozens of test specialists. An eye test will be undertaken and a simple certificate given afterwards showing if the dog was affected or unaffected by the problems being examined for. This eye certificate should be renewed every 12 months and so, when puppies are produced, the certificate should be valid. they last only 12 months, like a Car M.O.T. so even if the breeder can show a certificate, firstly make sure the 'unaffected' box is ticked (not the 'affected') and secondly make sure it is dated within the last 12 months. If it is not, chances are the dog was retested and failed OR the owner didn't bother testing again. The trauma of a young pet dog going blind is so great that the £35 or so an eye test certificate costs a breeder is a SMALL price to pay to check their eyes are not affected before a mating is undertaken.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

The cost of the mismate will be nothing compared to the cost of going through with the pregnancy and rearing the pups. But I think the health risks for the bitch and the pups is more important than any amount of money, you need to get the mismate.


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

I would get the mismate she's so young its almost guaranteed thats theres going to be problems. The cost of the injection is nothing compared to possible c-section, raising the puppies, health checking the puppies and then maybe even keeping 1 if you can't find a new owner.


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## peppapug (Dec 14, 2008)

Calm down, you do sound very panicy. This situation is unfortunate but can be remedied by the mismate injection as everyone has said.

It will cost you around £1000 to rear a litter from a healthy bitch, the injection will be a fraction of this and a 7 month pup could have all sorts of complications.

Perhaps you could arrange a payment plan with the vets if you dont have all the money up front but this situation won't go away and needs dealt with ASAP.

Let us know how you get on.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2009)

As others have said you dog is way way too young to have pups.! Alas the damage is done now and the only decent thing you can do it to go ahead and get the missmate injection irrespective of the costs. Failing to do this could quite easily but your bitch in severe danger, probably even resulting in her dying and the cost to you could be far far greaterthen the cost of he injection. The fact that she may never be able to have puppies in the future should not even come into the equasion here! You owe it to your dog to do what is right! Please do it! If only for her sake.
Regards
DT


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2009)

Alizin can be purchased online you will need a prescription for it it may work out cheaper buying it online I've found it for as cheap as £27.80 for 10ml just having a quick look which would be more than enough to treat your bitch 

So, not that expensive 



> Veterinary surgeons are obliged under the law to offer a written prescription for your pet's medication


There may be a small charge for the prescription and a fee to administer it, but probably wouldn't mount to more than £45-£50


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Good luck i hope you take all the advice from others on here.
She is so young and still a puppy herself.
Please do not put her through this as things may go wrong for both Mother and pups.
Please do not be hard on yourself either it can get sorted i wish you the best of luck.
Let us know how you are doing.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

peppapug said:


> Calm down, you do sound very panicy. This situation is unfortunate but can be remedied by the mismate injection as everyone has said.
> 
> It will cost you around £1000 to rear a litter from a healthy bitch, the injection will be a fraction of this and a 7 month pup could have all sorts of complications.
> 
> ...


Goodness, I cant imagine spending that much on rearing a litter unless everything goes wrong that can. How do you work that one out.
Surely the vets fees for the injection wont cost much more than £30


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

I too would say get the mismate jab...there is a risk involved in the jab, but it doesnt have to happen. And the risk in her having the pups is far higher than the jab itself.... hope u make the right decision!



Blitz said:


> Goodness, I cant imagine spending that much on rearing a litter unless everything goes wrong that can. How do you work that one out.
> Surely the vets fees for the injection wont cost much more than £30


I too would be interested how that £1000 come together ...


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

7 months is way to young you could be endangering her life
they should be at least 2 years old before having pups. At least.
Get the mismate jab asap


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## Buggles (Jul 14, 2009)

Why did you not stop them from mating??? I don't understand that, surely if you saw them at it you should have stopped them?


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Natik said:


> I too would say get the mismate jab...there is a risk involved in the jab, but it doesnt have to happen. And the risk in her having the pups is far higher than the jab itself.... hope u make the right decision!
> 
> I too would be interested how that £1000 come together ...


just started a thread on the cost of having a litter...do not want to scare the op but the cost could be from £1000-£2000......


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## Baby Bordie (Jun 21, 2009)

It is very important taht you have this jab done. It could harm or even kill your girl, and the pups would definatley be at risk! TBH it would be much more expensive if you had the pups, so please have this jab done!


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

animallover111 said:


> just started a thread on the cost of having a litter...do not want to scare the op but the cost could be from £1000-£2000......


this here is different....no stud fee was involved and we dont know if any health tests have been done, so i doubt it will be anywhere near that cost


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2009)

Natik said:


> this here is different....no stud fee was involved and we dont know if any health tests have been done, so i doubt it will be anywhere near that cost


regardless of how right or wrong this number may be, the injection will still be a fraction of the price of rearing a litter of puppies, which i think is the point being made...


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Savahl said:


> regardless of how right or wrong this number may be, the injection will still be a fraction of the price of rearing a litter of puppies, which i think is the point being made...


i didnt deny it, i was just putting straight that such a high number in this case is very doubtfull


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

that would be like a 12 year old girl having a baby please get her to the vet and soon


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

I agree with everyone here, the most sensible thing to do is get the mismate jab :yesnod:


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## kristy (May 30, 2009)

Natik said:


> i didnt deny it, i was just putting straight that such a high number in this case is very doubtfull


not that far out.
cost of emergency c section can be over 600 pounds
cost of extra food for bitch 50 pounds +
cost of welping box/vet bed/other items can be 100+
if mum dies cost of milk/feeding bottles etc 40 pounds+
food for pups when weaning 28 per sack(mine are on second sack at 5 weeks,so 56 pounds+
wormer for pups 30 pounds +
flea treatment 20+
so thats over 890 pounds and thats only for starters so even without health checks its alot more expensive than the jab!


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## Classyellie (Apr 16, 2009)

Please do the best thing you can for your girl and get her to the vets asap for the mismate injection as everyone else has advised

Ellie x


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## peppapug (Dec 14, 2008)

Blitz said:


> Goodness, I cant imagine spending that much on rearing a litter unless everything goes wrong that can. How do you work that one out.
> Surely the vets fees for the injection wont cost much more than £30


Well perhaps i am exaggerating a little! But it wasnt far off that for mine, she had a csection, not to mention the difficulties before she got to that with 4 vets trips and oxytocin injections.

the real reality is loss of earnings, maybe not every one has this. But it was easily £1000, my vets bill was £900 alone. So thinking about it it is no exageration and things do go wrong and may well with a 7 month old pup.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

kristy said:


> not that far out.
> cost of emergency c section can be over 600 pounds
> cost of extra food for bitch 50 pounds +
> cost of welping box/vet bed/other items can be 100+
> ...


emergency cesearian can happen but isnt common in the labrador breed....

whelping box u can get for £20, vet bed for £10

i dont say rearing a litter is cheap and it definitly isnt if things go wrong, but if everything goes right then its nowhere near as expensive as £1000-2000


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Just a reminder!
A few months ago I posted on the forum about a 13 month old basset that delivered pups by C section! some of you may remember they were looking for a foster mum for the pups, Four of the puts were put on an Akita if I remember right!!!! The link may still be here!

The mother Died!!! very sad!

Not wanting to turn this into a slagging match! but you have asked the question! And have been given good solid advice! Really hope that you have taken this and done as suggested! because morally to ignore what has been said and go ahead with the pregnancy would be very very wrong imo!

All the best
DT


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

Buggles said:


> Why did you not stop them from mating??? I don't understand that, surely if you saw them at it you should have stopped them?


You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.

I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.

I spoke to my vet last night and she said that it would be safer for her to go through with the pregnancy because there are too many complications with the injection. We are waiting a few weeks and going back to the vets to see if she is pregnant and then go from there.

All of your advice is really helpful but i have to take the vets advice, the vet that knows my dog, Basically the vet explained that millions of dogs have litters on their first season, the reason they come into season means they are ready to breed.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.
> 
> I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.
> 
> I spoke to my vet last night and she said that it would be safer for her to go through with the pregnancy because there are too many complications with the injection. We are waiting a few weeks and going back to the vets to see if she is pregnant and then go from there.


Can't believe your vet advised this!  Your girl is too young to have pups! She has not grown fully and this litter may kill her!

I would deff go with another vet because they sound they haven't got a clue 

Just because they come into season and are ready to breed doesn't mean they should be bred!  Where did your vet get its qualifications from? School of idiocy?


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.
> 
> I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.
> 
> ...


Jeez What a load of faecal matter. Safer to go through with the pregnancy OMG Hopefully the Vet will not have to wipe your tears if it all goes wrong. Good Luck I am out of this one Aaaargh
ps Funny Wonder if he thinks millions do not suffer from Hip Dysplasia etc....


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Can't believe your vet advised this!  Your girl is too young to have pups! She has not grown fully and this litter may kill her!
> 
> I would deff go with another vet because they sound they haven't got a clue
> 
> Just because they come into season and are ready to breed doesn't mean they should be bred!  Where did your vet get its qualifications from? School of idiocy?


Its like saying a girl of 13 who has her first period is ready to have babies :/


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.
> 
> I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.
> 
> ...


I think any vet that advises a 7 month old bitch to have a litter needs to be struck off!! What a moron. 

If he didn't like the idea of the injection, why didn't he advise you to spay?!


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## Colsy (Oct 3, 2008)

Some vets grr...
I must say this does not sound right and vets are not always right.
I would myself find another vet and get more advice.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Savahl said:


> Its like saying a girl of 13 who has her first period is ready to have babies :/


Yes, just because a teenager hits puberty and gets her period does not mean she should get pregnant 

I can't believe a vet would advise this sort of thing. Mine would smack me silly if I brought Sky in and said she was pregnant!


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.
> 
> I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.
> 
> ...


Oh please Kellyxx take your bitch to another vet.At best you could be left having to keep the pups yourself as no responsible puppy buyer would consider a pup bred out of a 7 month old bitch and at worst your girl could die.There are many people on here that are experienced breeders and have seen a bitch whelp many times, many vets do not have this experience.No one is being nasty just trying to save you alot of heartbreak.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.
> 
> I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.
> 
> ...


Sorry you can all jump on me for saying this but i do not believe any vet would ever advise for a 7 month old pup to have a litter of pups......
Nor do i believe a vet would ever explain the reason they come into season means they are ready to breed........Or that it is safer for the pup to have this litter......


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

animallover111 said:


> Sorry you can all jump on me for saying this but i do not believe any vet would ever advise for a 7 month old pup to have a litter of pups......
> Nor do i believe a vet would ever explain the reason they come into season means they are ready to breed........Or that it is safer for the pup to have this litter......


My thoughts exactly Faecal Matter imo


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> Sorry you can all jump on me for saying this but i do not believe any vet would ever advise for a 7 month old pup to have a litter of pups......
> Nor do i believe a vet would ever explain the reason they come into season means they are ready to breed........Or that it is safer for the pup to have this litter......


Any vet who would advise this is quite clearly ut: and shouldn't be practising


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.
> 
> I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.
> 
> ...


OMG you are putting our pup at great risk of losing her life! please get a 2nd opinion the dangers of such a young pup having puppies far out weigh the risks of the mismate jab! infact you'd probably be better off just getting her spayed asap & then it would also prevent another accident!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.
> 
> I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.
> 
> ...


I cannot believe I am reading this!!! I am astounded at your vets advise!!! Did you read my post above regarding the 13 month old basset that died due to complications due to labour!

I sincerely wish you girl all the very best! I so do!!
But I am not going to tell you what exactly I think of you!! May be a ban for me! but so it!
You came on here and asked advise! you were given it from many experienced users! basically they all said the same!

Personally I think that you have pound signs flashing in front of your eyes !!! and are already counting the pennies from this so called ' mistake' I think you ethics leave a lot to be desired! in fact I would go as far to say you are an irresponsible dog owner! good luck and good bye!
DT


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I cannot believe I am reading this!!! I am astounded at your vets advise!!! Did you read my post above regarding the 13 month old basset that died due to complications due to labour!
> 
> I sincerely wish you girl all the very best! I so do!!
> But I am not going to tell you what exactly I think of you!! May be a ban for me! but so it!
> ...


I agree.......


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

And! you bitch is still growing herself! she should only just be off puppy food!! Are you not aware that this litter is going to take a lot out of here! ASK your vet!!! opps better not!! 
DT


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.
> 
> I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.
> 
> ...


Vets know very little about breeding!! The best thing you could do if you love your dog is give her the miss mate jab..

Oh and in the mean time change vets!! that advice from your vet is rediclouse


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

just to add your puppy is still growing she needs all the calcium & nutrients for her own development! being in whelp & giving birth even takes a lot out of bitches who are in their prime! so even if your pup did survive the birth she would never grow to be fit & healthy! i could never live with myself if i put one of my bitches at such great risk!


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

This thread almost has me lost for words... but not quite...

Firstly - "irresponsible dog ownership" springs to mind...

&

Secondly - the Vet is clearly missguiding you with the wrong advice.

Having this litter will effect the mothers growth for definate (she is still growing herself), it could even kill her along with her pups...

Do your best for the pet & have the possible litter terminated with the missmate injection.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

I am speechless,
What an irresponsible thing to do, and by the sounds of it the vet is no better!

I feel so sorry for that bitch,poor dog. 

Why on earth would a vet feel it's safer for a 7 month old PUP to carry on with a pregnancy with the high risk to the bitch and unborn pups compared to the risk assiociated with the mismate ?

Jeez, what an idiot!!!


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.
> 
> I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.
> 
> ...


What a load of old poppycock!!!

Maybe your vet is saying that so that they get the money when you have to pay all the high vet bills if/when this goes wrong!!!

Your puppy(she is not much more than a pup herself) should mean more to you. There are a million more complications with her having a litter than having an injection!!!


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## louisehall21 (Jul 9, 2009)

i have not had much experiance in breeding but all the advise you have been given is the right thing to do my friends dad is a vet and has been for nearly 25 years and said that is the worst advise he has ever heard from your vet ut: and said he obviously aint thinking of your bitch or the pups in the long run yes there are bad sides to having the mismate injection but it is better than that and he said if you had come to see him with this problem he would have advised her being spayed just as he would not want this to happen again next season when she will still be too young. 

i dont mean to sound as if i am having a go at you but your putting your poor puppys life at risk and she deserves to be happy and you should want to spend the rest of your life with this bitch but sounds like your happy to risk her life and in my opinion that makes a bad dog owner i would never risk any animals life mine or not.

i plead with you once more go see another vet think about the risks and ask yourself if this was your daughter and she could die or never have kids would you let her go through with it i think not.


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## RowanWolf (Jan 30, 2009)

Do not go back to that vet, find another one and follow the advice here.


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

I dont think it is fair that you can call me an 'irresponsible dog owner'. I have not done this on purpose, i am not seeing pound signs flashing and i am trying to do the best for her. 

Firstly, 64% of dogs that mate dont actually get pregnant? 
Once i find out whether she is pregnant or not we will decide then. 

I understand what each of you is saying and i am not saying i will let her go through with the pregnancy i want to see which options outweigh the others, i am grateful for all your advice except those who choose to call me an idiot. I am just telling you what my vet has said. I would not have put my question on a dog forum if i didn't take on the criticism.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> I dont think it is fair that you can call me an 'irresponsible dog owner'. I have not done this on purpose, i am not seeing pound signs flashing and i am trying to do the best for her
> Firstly, 64% of dogs that mate dont actually get pregnant?
> Once i find out whether she is pregnant or not we will decide then.
> 
> I understand what each of you is saying and i am not saying i will let her go through with the pregnancy i want to see which options outweigh the others, i am grateful for all your advice except those who choose to call me an idiot. I am just telling you what my vet has said. I would not have put my question on a dog forum if i didn't take on the criticism.


Then do the right thing and get her the miss mate!!

Where did you hear that..thats a blimmin joke right!!??

Anyone with an sense would tell you the truth witch is you bitch and pups could all lose there lives if she goes through with this! Any one that says any different needs there heads wacking against a brick wall


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> Hi, i am new to this forum, sorry to aska question straight away but i am in a dilemma. I have two labradors one 7 month old bitch and one 20 month old male. They mated on *saturday* and she could be pregnant. I dont know what to do the injections are expensive and i have heard bad things and that she may not be able to breed again but then again i think she is too young to have pups and there could be complications
> 
> i dont know what to do


If they only got caught together Saturday the side effects of having the injection is VERY low as there would be almost nothing to terminate! It could either bring her back into season again, or postpone it for a fair few months, giving you time to either castrate your dog, or spay your bitch!



kellyxx said:


> You are not allowed to stop a dog from mating because it could rip the bitches insides out.
> 
> I didn't let them do it i was washing the pots and in literally two minutes i walked in the garden and they were stuck.
> 
> ...


You DON'T have to listen to the advice of your vet, they sound like a complete moron and very few vets I would like to point out know very little about breeding, sounds like a 'text' book vet to me 
Just because your dog came into season does not mean she is ready to breed, it just means she's maturing into adulthood 
Millions of dogs that have litters on their first season are dogs that are owned by puppy farmers and backyard breeders who don't give a stuff for the health and wellbeing of their dogs, or their offspring.
Please stop viewing your vet with rose tinted spectacles on, my advice to you is BUY the Alizin from online, like I advised you to do, your vet *legally* has to provide you with a prescription and take her to another vet who will agree to administer the jab!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> I dont think it is fair that you can call me an 'irresponsible dog owner'. I have not done this on purpose, i am not seeing pound signs flashing and i am trying to do the best for her.
> 
> Firstly, 64% of dogs that mate dont actually get pregnant?
> Once i find out whether she is pregnant or not we will decide then.
> ...


the advice may sound harsh but its because poeple are very concerned for the welfare of your puppy, the mismate jab could actually save her life.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Here we go Alizin Injection 10ml Prescription required

No - one can advise you to do anymore, the ball is in your court but I think that is a pretty good price for peace of mind.


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> I dont think it is fair that you can call me an 'irresponsible dog owner'. I have not done this on purpose, i am not seeing pound signs flashing and i am trying to do the best for her.
> 
> Firstly, 64% of dogs that mate dont actually get pregnant?
> Once i find out whether she is pregnant or not we will decide then.
> ...


Sorry for being harsh but... surely you could have kept the dog & bitch apart whilst she was in season, that's what a responsible owner would have done.

My bitch has just finished her season (this weekend) & my dog has just gotten over the fact that he didn't get his leg over... yes they are both entire & there's never been an "accident"



Treat it as a learning curve & seriously change your vet... for your pet's sake!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

To look at it from another angle!
My neighbours 9 year old daughter admited to having sex with her boyfriend last night!! She told her parents!!!! BUT - they are not taking her to the doctors for the morming after pill! They are going to wait until she starts 'showing' then deal with it!!!

This is exactly the same as what you are doing! SO YES! I feel I have every right to call you irrepsonsible!

regards
DT


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> To look at it from another angle!
> My neighbours 9 year old daughter admited to having sex with her boyfriend last night!! She told her parents!!!! BUT - they are not taking her to the doctors for the morming after pill! They are going to wait until she starts 'showing' then deal with it!!!
> 
> This is exactly the same as what you are doing! SO YES! I feel I have every right to call you irrepsonsible!
> ...


The neighbours daughter is about 2.5 years older than the lab pup, but i get what your saying......ut:...


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Dingle said:


> The neighbours daughter is about 2.5 years older than the lab pup, but i get what your saying......ut:...


Spot on Dingle!!!

obviously this is only hyperthetical!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Call me cynical, but i fear this "vet" is just a figment of the imagination and the poster is just saying things to justify their decision to continue with the litter.

I wouldn't waste time replying to this. She has quite clearly decided she will have the litter regardless of the fact that the puppy could die delivering them, or after. The last few posts with endless of excuses why its ok to have the litter makes that perfectly clear.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Can i just ask.....so the "pup" should still have the jab without knowing if she is pregnant or not?....the owner does not have to wait and see if the bitch is pregnant......


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Spot on Dingle!!!
> obviously this is only hyperthetical!


Yes obviously... & thankfuly...



Jess2308 said:


> Call me cynical, but i fear this "vet" is just a figment of the imagination and the poster is just saying things to justify their decision to continue with the litter.
> 
> I wouldn't waste time replying to this. She has quite clearly decided she will have the litter regardless of the fact that the puppy could die delivering them, or after. The last few posts with endless of excuses why its ok to have the litter makes that perfectly clear.


You could be right...ut:...


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Call me cynical, but i fear this "vet" is just a figment of the imagination and the poster is just saying things to justify their decision to continue with the litter.
> 
> I wouldn't waste time replying to this. She has quite clearly decided she will have the litter regardless of the fact that the puppy could die delivering them, or after. The last few posts with endless of excuses why its ok to have the litter makes that perfectly clear.


This isnt the first time i have heard vets say this and im sure it wont be the last!! But you might be right who knows..i have the feeling to that this litter will be born!!

Im hoping not for the futhur of the bitch but hey some people just dont listen!
My dog would have been at the vets at the nearst appointment if i ever had such an accident!!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> Can i just ask.....so the "pup" should still have the jab without knowing if she is pregnant or not?....the owner does not have to wait and see if the bitch is pregnant......


The Jab can and still should be given


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## RowanWolf (Jan 30, 2009)

On the posters head be it if she? causes harm to this dog. I believe in karma.
Anyone who breeds such a young dog when it could be avoided needs ..well.. something I probably shouldn't post on a public forum. ut: :cursing:


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> Can i just ask.....so the "pup" should still have the jab without knowing if she is pregnant or not?....the owner does not have to wait and see if the bitch is pregnant......


No you dont have to wait and see


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Nicci said:


> The Jab can and still should be given





DevilDogz said:


> No you dont have to wait and see


Thank you so there is NO reason why the owner can not get the jab done asap...the sooner the better?????


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> Thank you so there is NO reason why the owner can not get the jab done asap...the sooner the better?????


No there is no reason why she could'nt be at the vets now getting it or have been there yesterday having it!! 
imo the risks of having the puppies BY FAR weighs out the risks of the mis-mate


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

animallover111 said:


> Thank you so there is NO reason why the owner can not get the jab done asap...the sooner the better?????


No reason what so ever...

Would you hang around to see or just go straight for the jab... i know what i'd be doing...


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

DevilDogz said:


> No there is no reason why she could be at the vets now getting it have been there yesterday having!!
> imo the risks of having the puppies BY FAR weighs out the risks of the mis-mate


Totally agree...


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> Hi, i am new to this forum, sorry to aska question straight away but i am in a dilemma. I have two labradors one 7 month old bitch and one 20 month old male. They mated on saturday and she could be pregnant. I dont know what to do the injections are expensive and i have heard bad things and that she may not be able to breed again but then again i think she is too young to have pups and there could be complications
> 
> i dont know what to do


Your girl is still a pup , this is just irresponsible  I am sure raising a litter will be a considerable amount more then the injections....
I really hope you make the right decision by you girl.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Dingle said:


> Totally agree...


Ohh you agreeing with me again are you!!


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

DevilDogz said:


> Ohh you agreeing with me again are you!!


Haha... yeah! far too like minded...


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Call me cynical, but i fear this "vet" is just a figment of the imagination and the poster is just saying things to justify their decision to continue with the litter.
> 
> I wouldn't waste time replying to this. She has quite clearly decided she will have the litter regardless of the fact that the puppy could die delivering them, or after. The last few posts with endless of excuses why its ok to have the litter makes that perfectly clear.


The vet is not a figment of my imagination at all. How have i quite CLEARLY decided to have the litter????

There are no endless excuses at all i am just telling you what my vet said.

I am telling you the facts, how it happened and asking for advice what you would do. You are making assumptions and assuming that i will do the worst. 
There is no need for everyone to get aggressive, call me irresponsible and an idot when i am asking for advice.


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Food for thought. I volunteer for a local rescue. In the last 2 months we've helped rehome puppies from 3 separate litters, dogs that the 'breeders' couldn't sell. Most were around 14 weeks old and the 'breeders' decided to cut their losses and let us clean up after them. And I know for a fact we are not alone in this situation, many many rescues are taking in pedigree puppies that are not selling.

Oh and out of interest the breed of 2 of our litters? Labs. ut: Maybe the fact you are more than likely to be left with puppies will make you take the right decision, or can you afford to keep more than 2 dogs? Then again I'm sure a rescue will take them off your hands, that's assuming your puppy manages to give birth.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> The vet is not a figment of my imagination at all. How have i quite CLEARLY decided to have the litter????
> 
> There are no endless excuses at all i am just telling you what my vet said.
> 
> ...


Ok please ignore the advice from your vet thats a good start..Then book your self in with another vet talk to them and get the mis-mate...if another vet says that its alright to have pups at this age poke him in the eyes and walk out!! after having the jab though 

Honestly your bitch would be at seriouse risk if she had pups..we wouldnt tell you that for nothing you only have to read some of the stories about it and know just how bad it can turn out!!

Please get on to another vet ASAP right now even and get your little girl booked in for the mis-mate 



Dingle said:


> Haha... yeah! far too like minded...


Its because we are sensible!


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

JSR said:


> Food for thought. I volunteer for a local rescue. In the last 2 months we've helped rehome puppies from 3 separate litters, dogs that the 'breeders' couldn't sell. Most were around 14 weeks old and the 'breeders' decided to cut their losses and let us clean up after them. And I know for a fact we are not alone in this situation, many many rescues are taking in pedigree puppies that are not selling.
> 
> Oh and out of interest the breed of 2 of our litters? Labs. ut: Maybe the fact you are more than likely to be left with puppies will make you take the right decision, or can you afford to keep more than 2 dogs? Then again I'm sure a rescue will take them off your hands, that's assuming your puppy manages to give birth.


Well said JSR and oh so true


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> The vet is not a figment of my imagination at all. How have i quite CLEARLY decided to have the litter????
> 
> There are no endless excuses at all i am just telling you what my vet said.
> 
> ...


Calm down dear... it's a Forum with lots of strong "animal welfare" opinions...

My last bit of advice to you is:

Re read the thread, take on board what is best for your puppy, bearing in mind she is at the equivilent age of a 6 ish year old child & please please change your Vet... hope that helps...


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> The vet is not a figment of my imagination at all. How have i quite CLEARLY decided to have the litter????
> 
> There are no endless excuses at all i am just telling you what my vet said.
> 
> ...


Well im sorry but i know bulls**t when i smell it  NO vet would ever in a million years advise having a litter from a 7 months old bitch, especially of a large, slow maturing breed like a labrador. Whilst vets are hardly experts in breeding they DO know how much strain carrying and raising a litter puts on a bitch and im sorry, but i do not, and will not believe that your vet told you to do that.

People have told you what you should do for the welfare of your dog (any sensible person would know that it is irresponsible to have a litter from a young puppy  ) and you have come back with excuse after excuse. So i call bulls**t


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Well im sorry but i know bulls**t when i smell it  NO vet would ever in a million years advise having a litter from a 7 months old bitch, especially of a large, slow maturing breed like a labrador. Whilst vets are hardly experts in breeding they DO know how much strain carrying and raising a litter puts on a bitch and im sorry, but i do not, and will not believe that your vet told you to do that.
> 
> People have told you what you should do for the welfare of your dog (any sensible person would know that it is irresponsible to have a litter from a young puppy  ) and you have come back with excuse after excuse. So i call bulls**t


Im afraid it isnt un heard of...vets know very little about breeding! Not thats im backing the OP poster up because i think its bad enough she hasnt even had the mis mate yet and thats if she chooses too!!

But we cant says thats a lie to be honest!! because it does happen and will always happen!!

See my vet would go mental!!  
Some vets are so old fashioned and text book with there ways!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> Im afraid it isnt un heard of...vets know very little about breeding! Not thats im backing the OP poster up because i think its bad enough she hasnt even had the mis mate yet and thats if she chooses too!!
> 
> But we cant says thats a lie to be honest!! because it does happen and will always happen!!
> 
> ...


I suppose we all have differing opinion but i have seen people like this on other websites making up stories to the vets and i can honestly say i've never come across a vet who would advise a litter from a 7 month old. The first bit of advice any good vet would give would be to spay the bitch and abort the pups at the same time.

I have an "old fashioned" vet i suppose, but he would never support having this litter, he would most certainly try to get the bitch spayed or jabbed!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

I am actually finding it hard to believe that the OP has been to the vets as it hapens!! check out the timing! If I am wrong them I am sorry! but it is just a gut feeling I have!
DT


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> I suppose we all have differing opinion but i have seen people like this on other websites making up stories to the vets and i can honestly say i've never come across a vet who would advise a litter from a 7 month old. The first bit of advice any good vet would give would be to spay the bitch and abort the pups at the same time.
> 
> I have an "old fashioned" vet i suppose, but he would never support having this litter, he would most certainly try to get the bitch spayed or jabbed!


I totally agree with you! I spose its the same as everything theres bad..and there's bad vets too


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> I totally agree with you! I spose its the same as everything theres bad..and there's bad vets too


Definately, but in this case i think its a bad owner rather that vet


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Lets hope mis-mate is giving then because in effect that could save the dogs life!!


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I am actually finding it hard to believe that the OP has been to the vets as it hapens!! check out the timing! If I am wrong them I am sorry! but it is just a gut feeling I have!
> DT


what's that mean


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

This whole thread is a joke :nonod:

If you are willing to put you bitch's life at risk then you carry on but don't expect anyone here to agree with you.

It disgusts me how people can let these sort of things happen then try to justify why they're going to have a litter.

Where will these pups end up? In a rescue? Will you sell them? What happens if you can't sell or give them away? You're stuck with pups that will grow into large dogs or perhaps they will be bound for the river!!

Maybe I shoukd breed my 8 month black GSD. She'd bring me a pretty penny, I've had a good few offers :nonod: Where's thedogsmother? I'll breed her with Henrick what beautiful pups they would be 

This poor dog. All she did was act on instinct. Surely you realised she was in season 

Get her the mismate jab and neuter her now! Any SANE *QUALIFIED* vet will tell you the same.

This is so sad


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

I agree Squeena, I don't understand why people ask for advice and then don't take it.

I am going to leave this thread as it makes me feel sick.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

I just can't believe this thread. Its very sad and shocking. 

After everything you have been told by people who have real *experience* and yet you are still choosing to wait  

Can i just ask why you are waiting??

If that were my dog, well it wouldn't be because i wouldn't let it happen, but just say it was i would not be posting on here i would getting her the jab ASAP. In fact i would've done it on the Saturday!


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

kayz said:


> I agree Squeena, I don't understand why people ask for advice and then don't take it.
> 
> I am going to leave this thread as it makes me feel sick.


Maybe she thought people would agree 

Oops wrong place if so.............

No one here agrees with puppys having puppies.........well no one anywhere with a heart (and sense!).


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

kayz said:


> I agree Squeena, I don't understand why people ask for advice and then don't take it.
> 
> I am going to leave this thread as it makes me feel sick.


I agree with you.......what i do not understand is why ask for advice and then not take it.....Members here are genuinely worried and concerned about this dog yet the owner does not seem to understand that.....i know we are strangers but i can honestly say when i have asked and needed advice i have taken on board everything thats been said.....i would of been lost at times without this site.......
OP you really should listen to the advice members are giving you......


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

just a question to the OP:

why are you choosing to ignore the advice of experienced BREEDERS (people who breed their dogs and know lots about it....... lots more than your supposed vet!!!) and take the advice of someone who has more than likely never reared a litter in their life - just because they've got a qualification, it doesn't mean they really know what they're talking about. I have a qualification in veterinary medicines but I don't go out prescribing drugs to peoples pets!!

LISTEN to the people on here, they are the ones talking sense, not your vet.


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

Verbatim said:


> just a question to the OP:
> 
> why are you choosing to ignore the advice of experienced BREEDERS (people who breed their dogs and know lots about it....... lots more than your supposed vet!!!) and take the advice of someone who has more than likely never reared a litter in their life - just because they've got a qualification, it doesn't mean they really know what they're talking about. I have a qualification in veterinary medicines but I don't go out prescribing drugs to peoples pets!!
> 
> LISTEN to the people on here, they are the ones talking sense, not your vet.


I am not ignoring the advice. 
I went away on Saturday and the vet said the jab can be done anytime this week.
I have not asked for your advice and not taken it.
Like i said before i am weighing up the options and i will be back at the vets this week when I have decided what to do.

you are all making assumptions, So this is how it is: Saturday morning my dogs were left for two minutes when i saw they were stuck. Yes it was my worst nightmare. I KNEW she was in season, i KNEW he could mate with her and they were kept apart, just my luck the two minutes they were together they mated. Anyway accident happened.

I rang the vets at 9.00am and asked for their advice. We were going away at 10.00am. The vet advised that its nothing to worry about as yet and the injection could be done anytime next week.

So we went away and Monday i called the vet again to ask for advice. They told me about the injection and the side effects, they also told me that my dog is healthy (8 months old next week) and that she'd be fine.

Now can you honestly tell me that if you were in my situation, you had never heard of mismate, you had looked it up on the internet and you read the devastating side effects and your Vet had told you the side effects (as they are obliged to do) would you say - ok give it her .... BEFORE weighing up the options and researching it yourself.... Well i chose not to.

So now here i am researching, asking for advice and weighing up the odds. How do you know what i am going to do? You don't.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> I am not ignoring the advice.
> I went away on Saturday and the vet said the jab can be done anytime this week.
> I have not asked for your advice and not taken it.
> Like i said before i am weighing up the options and i will be back at the vets this week when I have decided what to do.
> ...


If you don't decide to have the jab and she is pregnant I think the affects to your bitch's life would be much worse! Why not have her neutered? Her womb and ovaries will be removed so there is no need for the mismate then!

What's to weigh up? Trying to figure out how much money these pups will bring?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> I am not ignoring the advice.
> I went away on Saturday and the vet said the jab can be done anytime this week.
> I have not asked for your advice and not taken it.
> Like i said before i am weighing up the options and i will be back at the vets this week when I have decided what to do.
> ...


ok but if you do decide not to go with the mismate jab i think the safest option for your puppy will be to have her spayed. The most dangerous option by far will be to let the pregnancy continue.


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

Ok fair enough but have you thought beyond having cute pups, Labs are everywhere, and no health tests? what are you going to do if you cannot sale the pups?


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> I am not ignoring the advice.
> I went away on Saturday and the vet said the jab can be done anytime this week.
> I have not asked for your advice and not taken it.
> Like i said before i am weighing up the options and i will be back at the vets this week when I have decided what to do.
> ...


So what side effects of the mismate are you concerned about ?

Are you not concerned about the danger you would be placing your puppy in by allowing her to continue with a pregnancy and whelping ?

Seriously I have never heard of the mismate killing a bitch,however I have heard of fit,good mothers older than your dog having complications and dying.
Can you hand rear a litter if that happened ?
Can you cope with deformed stillborn puppies ? High chance of this happening due to the age of your girl.

You have alot of serious thinking to do,me I would opt for the safer option which is the mismate jab.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Puppies cost a lot of money
Food, Whelping box, Wormers, Frontline, Microchipping, Vaccinatiing
On top of that they need constant supervision, so you would need to stay off work. Being so young your dog is not ready mentally for this challenge and could reject them, which could possibly mean hand rearing them, which means getting up at all hours of the night, preparing syringes with milk, getting the correct formula. You won't be able to register them so it makes it even more unlikely you will have buyers, and to top it off mother hasn't been helth tested. 
Labradors have fair sized litter around 6-8 pups. I don't think you would handle it very well.
To be honest just do the right hting and get the mis-mate jab and save you and your dog a whole load more trouble.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

For the OP - good on you for considering all your options - in your place I would probably have done the same; I do not know anything about mismate and I know accident happen, we all tend to trust vets at the beginning and its only recently that I have started questioning them on certain aspects of pet care.
You should clearly look at all your options, and decide what is best for your bitch, based on information given by your vets but also by responsible breeders - maybe you could contact your breeder (if you got your bitch from a reputable breeder) to have a view on this?

As for everyone who is getting worked up on this - I can understand how strongly some of you feel about this but to have a go at the OP is unlikely to be helpful for anyone - at the end of the day this is just a forum, the OP can turn away as quickly as she has come in for advice and there is no reason for her to take posts on an internet forum as godsent and to follow them to the letter automatically.

xx


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Oblada said:


> For the OP - good on you for considering all your options - in your place I would probably have done the same; I do not know anything about mismate and I know accident happen, we all tend to trust vets at the beginning and its only recently that I have started questioning them on certain aspects of pet care.
> You should clearly look at all your options, and decide what is best for your bitch, based on information given by your vets but also by responsible breeders - maybe you could contact your breeder (if you got your bitch from a reputable breeder) to have a view on this?
> 
> As for everyone who is getting worked up on this - I can understand how strongly some of you feel about this but to have a go at the OP is unlikely to be helpful for anyone - at the end of the day this is just a forum, the OP can turn away as quickly as she has come in for advice and there is no reason for her to take posts on an internet forum as godsent and to follow them to the letter automatically.
> ...


She's going to do what I want so why can't I express my disgust? If she didn't like it or want anyone's opinions she wouldn't have come on here in the first place


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Patterdale_lover said:


> Getting them KC reg.


These pups would not be eligible for KC Registration as the bitch is under 12 months old.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sequeena said:


> She's going to do what I want


Freudian slip??


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Oblada said:


> Freudian slip??


Haha! I wish she would do what I want 

But you know what I mean


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> These pups would not be eligible for KC Registration as the bitch is under 12 months old.


Whoops forgot about that :/ thanks


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> These pups would not be eligible for KC Registration as the bitch is under 12 months old.


thought it were two years sallyanne!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Patterdale_lover said:


> Whoops forgot about that :/ thanks


I suppose it would depend if the parents were KC regged also :yesnod:


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> These pups would not be eligible for KC Registration as the bitch is under 12 months old.


Thats very true and people with KC pups cant find homes for them at the mintue!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> Thats very true and people with KC pups cant find homes for them at the mintue!


Exactly. So how are unregistered pups meant to find homes?


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Also does that bitch have breeding endorsments!!!????


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> Also does that bitch have breeding endorsments!!!????


Sorry to sound dumb but can I ask what that is?


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Sorry to sound dumb but can I ask what that is?


KC reg dogs can be endorsed so that their progeny cannot be KC registered even though the parents are. You can also endorse against export.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Sorry to sound dumb but can I ask what that is?


Means the breeder has put restrictions on to say the dog cant be breed from!
Some breeders lift them when and if the dog proves to be a good stand and pass all helath tests and the new owner can prove they are putting it to a dog of equal quality..All our puppies leave with breeding endorsments!

But people still do it and just dont KC reg the off spring 
Imo a resposible breeder in this case a would not lift them


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Snoringbear said:


> KC reg dogs can be endorsed so that their progeny cannot be KC registered even though the parents are. You can also endorse against export.





DevilDogz said:


> Means the breeder has put restrictions on to say the dog cant be breed from!
> Some breeders lift them when and if the dog proves to be a good stand and pass all helath tests and the new owner can prove they are putting it to a dog of equal quality..All our puppies leave with breeding endorsments!
> 
> But people still do it and just dont KC reg the off spring
> Imo a resposible breeder in this case a would not lift them


Thanks both. That's a brilliant bit of info :yesnod:


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

If I was the breeder of this bitch I would be furious,I would do everything in my power to get this bitch back and do whats right by her,which would mean the mismate jab,then arrange to have her spayed and placed into a responsible caring home.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm sorry but you ARE irresponsible.

If you KNEW she was in season and you KNEW theey should not mate but you STILL left them alone for 2 minutes? That IS irresponsible.
When my dog was in heat she was not even NEAR a male for 2 minutes, let alone left with him!

You are considering letting her have the litter, that again imo IS irresponible, she could DIE as she is too young, also it is known that younger dogs are more likely to abandon the litter.

This year I raised a litter of puppies from a dog not belonging to me, she was just over a year old. She had no idea what to do, one of the puppies was not breathing, she gave up on them when they were two weeks old, and puppy formula is not cheap.

You say you have never heard of the mimste jab, so do you know EVERYTHING that is involved in looking after a pregnant bitch, or whelping a litter, and raising up to 10 or 12 puppies? It is NOT easy.

I suggest you think a bit more about your dogs health, and the fate of up to 10 or 12 non CK reg puppies, people these days are finding it hard to sell kc reg, you will find it even harder.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> I dont know what to do the injections are expensive and i have heard bad things and that she may not be able to breed again


Anyone notice that in the OP's opening post? Seems like the decision to ultimately breed has been made and is a concern anyway. Also how can anyone who is concerned about the albeit small cost of the injection afford to raise a litter, even if everything goes fine?

I don't understand this business of waiting to see either. You either terminate via jab or spay or have the litter, what difference does it make waiting?

If the vet exists they are retards and should be struck off.

I feel pretty confident form the first post that these puppies will be needlessly born.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Just wondered if both dogs have been health tested hips/elbows/eyes as you plan to breed in the future?


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## LKelly (Nov 7, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> Hi, i am new to this forum, sorry to aska question straight away but i am in a dilemma. I have two labradors one 7 month old bitch and one 20 month old male. They mated on saturday and she could be pregnant. I dont know what to do the injections are expensive and i have heard bad things and that she may not be able to breed again but then again i think she is too young to have pups and there could be complications
> 
> i dont know what to do


I hope everything goes okay when you take her to the vets, please let us know how you get on xxx


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Oh, and any one who will buy a puppy from a dog who is under a year is most likely not going to be a responsible owner.

When picking a puppy, the age of the bitch is an important factor, could you live with the fact you sent puppes to homes who might not look after them very well??


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

well, i for one think that the op wont comment on this thread anymore .....


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

No, probably not.
I just hope she does what is best for her dog, not her pockets!


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

Yes we were going to breed anyway after she was 2 years old. Does no one apart from Oblada understand my situation. (Thank you Oblada for actually listening and not assuming).

I am looking at all the options, this is a decision that can not be taken lightly. I do not think that my dog should go into care, every one I see who has Labradors comments on how healthy our dogs are, they are not fat like most Labradors.

I love my dogs like my children, I am taking advice from another two vets which I will be seeing this week and only then when I have plenty of opinions will I make my decision. 

Again, I reiterate that I am grateful for the comments on here but you cannot go assuming what I will do. You are all probably right that I should get the mismate but I need to be 100% sure that this will be best for her. (I know many of you are 100% sure but I will live with this decision for the rest of my life)

Sallyanne  if you were the breeder of this bitch youd be furious? Why it was an accident for god sake and I am trying my best to make sure I make the right decision. Have you never ever done anything wrong in your life?

You would also have her placed into a responsible home? Again why? How may people on here have had to have the mismate jab? So does that mean that all the people that have should have their dogs taken off them? I dont think so? 

How can you say my home is not caring? You dont know me, you dont know how much I love my dogs? You dont know that when I was in hospital 3 weeks ago suffering a miscarriage in A&E that all I was asking about was my dogs! You dont know that no matter how much my husband protested my dogs had to come on holiday with me! You dont know that every minute I am at home I walk, play, feed look after my dogs. They come first so how the hell can you say my home is not caring. You cant.

If the other two vets tell me that the mismate is the best option then yes, I will go for it. I am not waiting for the sake of it I am doing the best I can.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

If you were intending to breed in the future surely you would have known all this in the first place and would not have left your dogs together for any amount of time? 

I hope you decide to either get the mismate jab or neuter your girl because it is very possible she will die if she has pups at such a young age!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Does your bitch had breeding endorsments!?

Lets hope these two vets know what there talking about for god sake


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> Does your bitch had breeding endorsments!?
> 
> Lets hope these two vets know what there talking about for god sake


Here here DD :thumbup:


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

You are correct in saying that people here don't know you but people can only go by the information presented.

Regards the future breeding, are the dog's good examples of the breed? Have they been successful in the show ring? Assuming that you might use the male on her, has he had his hip and elbow scores?


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I would be furuious if I were her breeder too, for you even having to think about getting the mismate!

If she were my dog, I would have had her booked in for the mismate as soon as I caught them together!

You came on here and asked for advice but are still thinking about it??
So what is the point in posting a thread about your dog, to just not even listen to what we have to say??

The best thing for your dog si to get the mismate. It does not mean she wont be able to breed in the furture.
Having the litter this young there is a high possibility she will never have puppies again, or she could die as she is not fully developed, how can you say you love her if you are considering putting her through a litter so young?
The extra weight on her hips before she is developed properly may mean she develops HD later on.

Please please just get her booked in for the mismate. Any vet who says having a litter at this age needs to be fired.

If you really do love your dogs, then think about how bad having a litter could be for her.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> Sallyanne - if you were the breeder of this bitch you'd be furious? Why it was an accident for god sake and I am trying my best to make sure I make the right decision. Have you never ever done anything wrong in your life?


I have had TWO ENTIRE BITCHES and An ENTIRE DOG live under the same roof and never had an accident it's called been responsible,obviously something which I would question regarding yourself.As a breeder myself too right I would be furious I would be concerned about the LIFE of a bitch PUPPY I bred.



kellyxx said:


> You would also have her placed into a responsible home? Again why? How may people on here have had to have the mismate jab? So does that mean that all the people that have should have their dogs taken off them? I don't think so?


Responsible breeders who have accidents deal with it in the appropriate way,something which appears to be lacking on your part,why are you so concerned about the mismate ?



kellyxx said:


> How can you say my home is not caring? You don't know me, you don't know how much I love my dogs? You don't know that when I was in hospital 3 weeks ago suffering a miscarriage in A&E that all I was asking about was my dogs! You don't know that no matter how much my husband protested my dogs had to come on holiday with me! You don't know that every minute I am at home I walk, play, feed look after my dogs. They come first so how the hell can you say my home is not caring. You can't.


I didn't say caring I said responsible,people can care doesn't make them responsible though does it ?The above has nothing do to with preventing a pregnancy in a 7 month old bitch,if you are so caring why are you pussyfooting around and not getting the mismate ?
Would it be because your concerned about future breeding plans,that should be the last thing on your mind right now.
Do whats right for your bitch that's the least you owe her!



kellyxx said:


> If the other two vets tell me that the mismate is the best option then yes, I will go for it. I am not waiting for the sake of it I am doing the best I can.


Have you contacted breeders in your breed for advice,what about your girl's breeder ?


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

As a labrador breeder i can tell you that a slim labrador does in no way equal a HEALTHY labrador. There are very specific health tests that should be done. She cant have been hip or elbow scored as she is under 12 months and i highly doubt she is eye or PRA tested cos it costs money...

I would not be criticising someone who had an accidental litter in general as accidents do happen, its how you handle them that make you a good or bad owner. If the bitch in question was 18 months old and health tested i wouldnt have an issue with you having the pups. But it is a 7 month old puppy (a MINOR puppy if you are showing, the very youngest) and in no way physically or mentally ready to have a litter.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> As a labrador breeder i can tell you that a slim labrador does in no way equal a HEALTHY labrador. There are very specific health tests that should be done. She cant have been hip or elbow scored as she is under 12 months and i highly doubt she is eye or PRA tested cos it costs money...
> 
> I would not be criticising someone who had an accidental litter in general as accidents do happen, its how you handle them that make you a good or bad owner. If the bitch in question was 18 months old and health tested i wouldnt have an issue with you having the pups. But it is a 7 month old puppy (a MINOR puppy if you are showing, the very youngest) and in no way physically or mentally ready to have a litter.


Brilliant post!!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Brilliant post!!


Why thank you 

I will always try to be supportive to those who have had a genuine accident and dont know what to do. This person has been told what they MUST do (theres not even a question in my mind of what should be done) and they are still arguing


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Why thank you
> 
> I will always try to be supportive to those who have had a genuine accident and dont know what to do. This person has been told what they MUST do (theres not even a question in my mind of what should be done) and they are still arguing


Shocking isn't it? 

I sincerely hope she decides to take your advice seeing as you are a breeder of labs!

I would be devastated if my girl caught now (I have no intention to breed anyway). She is only 8 months and much too young, she's only a baby herself.


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Shocking isn't it?
> 
> I sincerely hope she decides to take your advice seeing as you are a breeder of labs!
> 
> I would be devastated if my girl caught now (I have no intention to breed anyway). She is only 8 months and much too young, she's only a baby herself.


Whats shocking that i am getting second opinions from qualified people.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> Whats shocking that i am getting second opinions from qualified people.


Mmmmmm,
Is your vet a qualified breeder then ? 

Anyone got a brick wall ?


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> Whats shocking that i am getting second opinions from qualified people.


Breeding isnt something you learn or know about through reading books its expericnce witch many people that have answered this thread has!! Vets have no breeding experince!!

I know who i would be listening too...and we will see what these other two vets have to say!

Sallyanne when you find that brick wall please please please..find me and let me know  Mind you my heads hurting enough just trying to think what some people think is acceptable


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## EmzieAngel (Apr 22, 2009)

My vet would be outraged I'm sure.
She knows a lot about dogs, she has many herself, she always talks about them when we take Bailey to the vets.

And I agree with Jess, a slim labrador isn't necessarily healthy!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> Whats shocking that i am getting second opinions from qualified people.


What's shocking is you're completely disregarding other people here, most who are breeders and know what they are talking about.

What's shocking is that you say you intend to breed yet you didn't have a clue about the mismate jab or didn't even think to keep your dogs apart when your bitch was in her first season.

What's shocking is you are considering let your 7 month old PUPPY have a litter if she is pregnant.

Shocking isn't it?


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Mmmmmm,
> Is your vet a qualified breeder then ?
> 
> Anyone got a brick wall ?


I'm not on about My vet i'm on about the two vets i'm waiitng to see.

God some people are cocky on here


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> I'm not on about My vet i'm on about the two vets i'm waiitng to see.
> 
> God some people are cocky on here


No they are clever and intelligent people, some are very experienced breeders. You should listen to them. We breed labradors among other dogs, and have bred dogs for about 10 years. Get the mismate end of.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> I'm not on about My vet i'm on about the two vets i'm waiitng to see.
> 
> God some people are cocky on here


Yes these people that seem "cocky" to you are annoyed that you would even have to think twice about getting the mis mate..these people are annoyed that you would put youe bitch through this and that at the end of it pups may be left with out a mother or even worse you lose pups and mother!!!

Please get the mis mate!!! In fact i wont beg..you do what YOU think is right for you girl!! at then of that we will all know what kind of dog lover you are!!


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

I find this whole situation very sad and selfish, I know you haven't made your mind up yet, but please put your girl first and do what's best for her  i am sorry but these type of threads seem the norm these days .
The rescues are bursting with unwanted dogs  .


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> I'm not on about My vet i'm on about the two vets i'm waiitng to see.
> 
> God some people are cocky on here


They aren't cocky. They are just concerned for your pup.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sequeena said:


> What's shocking is you're completely disregarding other people here, most who are breeders and know what they are talking about.
> 
> What's shocking is that you say you intend to breed yet you didn't have a clue about the mismate jab or didn't even think to keep your dogs apart when your bitch was in her first season.
> 
> ...


Very 

I am extremely shocked that someone is prepared to not even consider the welfare of a young puppy and do what's right by her.


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

sequeena said:


> What's shocking is you're completely disregarding other people here, most who are breeders and know what they are talking about.
> 
> What's shocking is that you say you intend to breed yet you didn't have a clue about the mismate jab or didn't even think to keep your dogs apart when your bitch was in her first season.
> 
> ...


I haven't said i am considering letting her have pups i let you all know what my vet said. 
Yes i intend to breed but why would i read up on mismate that is to terminate not to breed.
You get slagged off for letting your dogs out in the yard for two minutes - how many times ACCIDENT.

I am not disregarding what other people on here are saying - how many times have i said i am grateful for the advice. And if a professional spoke to me in the manner that the people on here are speaking to me i would tell them to f*** right off.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Very
> 
> I am extremely shocked that someone is prepared to not even consider the welfare of a young puppy and do what's right by her.


Can't agree with you anymore Sal!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> I'm not on about My vet i'm on about the two vets i'm waiitng to see.
> 
> God some people are cocky on here


Not cocky,just concerned about the welfare of your puppy,infact I would go as far as to say I think there are more people on this thread who appear to be more concerned about your bitch than you are!

Speaks volumes to me!


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Also you say that the mismate could prevent her having puppies in the future?
You said that you dont have pound signs flashing

TO me it looks very much this way. You are willing to consider the death of your dog just in case, i repeat just in case she can't have pups again?
Well i just want to say. 
You have the mismate jab and maybe just maybe she may become infertile. Or you go ahead and your dog will possibly die. Definitley no puppies then ey?


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

Can i ask what are your reasons for wanting your pup to have a litter now??


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> I haven't said i am considering letting her have pups i let you all know what my vet said.
> Yes i intend to breed but why would i read up on mismate that is to terminate not to breed.
> You get slagged off for letting your dogs out in the yard for two minutes - how many times ACCIDENT.
> 
> I am not disregarding what other people on here are saying - how many times have i said i am grateful for the advice. And if a professional spoke to me in the manner that the people on here are speaking to me i would tell them to f*** right off.


Responsible breeders often send the studs or bitches away to stay with someone else when they are in season to completely avoid any accidents. Surely you realised a boy + girl in season would mate if left alone? 

You should know about the mismate jab incase this situation occurred...and it has!!! It's called being knowledgeable and responsible!

So if both these vets say you shouldn't give her the mismate jab or neuter her...you will be willing to risk her life for the sake of pups?! 

And if a PROFESSIONAL breeder spoke to you like that I would be applauding them!!!! Get clued up!!
Actually, professional breeders HAVE spoken to you like that so I applaud them!!

Well done for having common sense and morals guys!!


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> And if a professional spoke to me in the manner that the people on here are speaking to me i would tell them to f*** right off.


Strangely, that says it all for me  Classy...  Heaven forbid someone with letters after their name would disagree with you!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> I haven't said i am considering letting her have pups i let you all know what my vet said.
> Yes i intend to breed but why would i read up on mismate that is to terminate not to breed.
> You get slagged off for letting your dogs out in the yard for two minutes - how many times ACCIDENT.
> 
> I am not disregarding what other people on here are saying - how many times have i said i am grateful for the advice. And if a professional spoke to me in the manner that the people on here are speaking to me i would tell them to f*** right off.


Members are getting frustrated because you are not taking onboard the advice you have been given and your attitude stinks! 
Is that why you have not contacted breeders because you don't want to hear there thoughts on the subject,most would be horrifiied at this situation you have allowed your girl to get into,YOUR FAULT NOT HERS!


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Responsible breeders often send the studs or bitches away to stay with someone else when they are in season to completely avoid any accidents. Surely you realised a boy + girl in season would mate if left alone?
> 
> You should know about the mismate jab incase this situation occurred...and it has!!! It's called being knowledgeable and responsible!
> 
> So if both these vets say you shouldn't give her the mismate jab or neuter her...you will be willing to risk her life for the sake of pups?!


Shocking isn't it


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

But if you knew your bitch was in season,she should have been kept away from the dog,for up to and over a month.some people send the dog to stay with friends while the bitch is in season
Your bitch should have had the jab on saturday when this happened and both should be spayed and nuetered as soon as possible.
Vets reall don`t know anything about breeding dogs.
Please listen to the people on here they know best.
Both your dogs will need breed specific health tests done before you even think of breeding them as well as a good result in the show ring.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Luvdogs said:


> Shocking isn't it


Just goes to show what lengths people will go to for some money!!


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

Even my hubby who knows even less than I do about bredding has said it is far too young!!


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

I could understand her making a mistake and the bitch getting pregnant thats fair enough can happen to anyone but it's just irresponsible to allow her to continue with the pregnancy she's far too young and there are going to be complications.


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Members are getting frustrated because you are not taking onboard the advice you have been given and your attitude stinks!
> Is that why you have not contacted breeders because you don't want to hear there thoughts on the subject,most would be horrifiied at this situation you have allowed your girl to get into,YOUR FAULT NOT HERS!


MEMBERS are getting frustrated, i am getting frustrated.

You can all speak your mind - fine
You cannot slag me off for an accident
You cannot slag me off for taking further advice
You cannot slag me off for not rushing into things.

I will not be returning to this forum to be spoken to like ****. you do not listen, you started the arguing, you are assuming and you are rude.


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Just goes to show what lengths people will go to for some money!!


For god sake have i EVER said i will let her have them? NO assuming again are we.


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## Luvdogs (Aug 15, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Just goes to show what lengths people will go to for some money!!


That is the only reason that i can come up with  it certainly isn't the welfare of the pup


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> For god sake have i EVER said i will let her have them? NO assuming again are we.


No you haven't but surely if you weren't going to let her have them she would have had the jab by now!!:cursing:


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> I will not be returning to this forum to be spoken to like ****. you do not listen, you started the arguing, you are assuming and you are rude.


"Pot, kettle and black" springs to mind. Sorry, but this forum and the dog world would be a better place without people like you. No offence intended.


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

kayz said:


> No you haven't but surely if you weren't going to let her have them she would have had the jab by now!!:cursing:


again i reiterate i am getting second opinions before she has the jab. how hard is that to understand


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

Kellyxx - Are you going to let her have the pups or not?

Only needs a simple yes or no answer and will clear the whole thing up. No one is having a go at you for having an accident. We are just concerned that you seem to be stalling in having the jab done which is very worrying to most of us.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

You might not have said you are going to let ther have them, but you want two other vets to tell you she should have the jag before you will consider it?
Get up of your ass and get your dog to the vets and look after her properly!!! People like you should not have dogs if you can't look after them properly, letting them mate in the first place then taking so long to even consider getting the jab!

From most of your posts on here you sound like an irresponsible, immature back yard breeder who wants money and doesn't care about your puppy.

You cannot come on here for advice and expect to be thought nicely of when you are putting your puppys life at risk!

Grow up and stop making arguments, accusing people of being nasty and take the dog to the vet


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> again i reiterate i am getting second opinions before she has the jab. how hard is that to understand


How hard is it to understand that her life is in serious danger if she doesn't have the mismate?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Luvdogs said:


> That is the only reason that i can come up with  it certainly isn't the welfare of the pup


Definitely not. I really hope the poor pup makes it and has a wonderful life.



kayz said:


> No you haven't but surely if you weren't going to let her have them she would have had the jab by now!!:cursing:


If she won't have the mismate and has no intentions of neutering having the pups is the only viable option!  Not hard to figure out is it?!

I am disgusted by this thread and wonder why some people even own animals :nonod:


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Think the O/P has a very clear picture in her mind now as to how 'responsible' owners feel! Shall we all take a breathe!! and start again! Maybe by asking the O/P her intentions now that she has had time to take on board what many of us have said! Maybe we should give her a chance to weight up the pros and cons!!!We may find that we have managed to bring a good arguement to the table as to why we feel this pregnacy should not be allowed to continue .
Then may we could move forward and help the lady with her options!

So i'll start!
Dear OP
Having had a chance to read the possible complications regarding your bitch having a litter at such a young age have you yet made a decision as to what you are going to do?
Thanks in advance for your reply
regards
DT


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

Jess2308 said:


> Kellyxx - Are you going to let her have the pups or not?
> 
> Only needs a simple yes or no answer and will clear the whole thing up. No one is having a go at you for having an accident. We are just concerned that you seem to be stalling in having the jab done which is very worrying to most of us.


No i am not. I want to be 100% sure that the side effects of teh jab will not effect the rest of her life. Researching and getting second opinions is not allowed then


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Get your second opinions then lets hope you have choosen better vets than the first one!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> MEMBERS are getting frustrated, i am getting frustrated.
> 
> You can all speak your mind - fine
> You cannot slag me off for an accident
> ...


Mmmmm,
Don't think so dear 

I don't make personal attacks on people nor do I feel the need to use bad language when things don't go my way or the advice I get is not what I want to hear 

I am not concerned about your feelings,however I and other members are extremely concerned for the welfare of a puppy caused through the owner been irresponsible and then despite been good advice still contemplating about what to do!


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> No i am not. I want to be 100% sure that the side effects of teh jab will not effect the rest of her life. Researching and getting second opinions is not allowed then


OK but letting her have the litter could kill her. Surely that is the reason you should go get the jag? It does not matter if the jag could stop her getting pregnant in future, if having a litter at this age is more likely to stop her having puppies again.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

i might have missed something here but i dont think the OP has actually said she is going to let her bitch have the pups, she said she was waiting to see another two vets before rushing in to the injection.

I too have heard bad things about the jabb and would be wary of using it myself, i would also want to make sure there was no other option before using it. im sure a few days isnt go to hurt her or the bitch, particually not knowing if she is definatly pregnant or not.

personally i dont blame the OP for getting frustrated at you, many of you have been rude in your comments and asumptions. i thought this forum was actually improving but it seems i was wrong. its still as bad as its always been. 

sorry kelly that i dont have any advice for you, but if it gives you piece of mind to have a few opinions first then you do that. i too know what its like to jump into something only to find out there was a better option, so you do what you think is right to do as no one understands the situation better then you, I for one trust you to make the right decission. 

right im logging out for a while until i calm down, im actaully discusted, i know people on here care but there are nicer ways to say things and rudness doesnt get you anywhere!!!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Good luck OP in what ever you decide!!! Im not commenting any more its a waste of time! All i need to say are in my previouse posts!!

I did ask more than once though about your bitch having breeding endorsments and never had a reply!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

PoisonGirl said:


> OK but letting her have the litter could kill her. Surely that is the reason you should go get the jag? It does not matter if the jag could stop her getting pregnant in future, if having a litter at this age is more likely to stop her having puppies again.


Have to agree with this :yesnod: The only viable option is to have the jab, regardless of the side affects if the OP does not plan to neuter or have the pups.


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## Jess2308 (May 12, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> No i am not. I want to be 100% sure that the side effects of teh jab will not effect the rest of her life. Researching and getting second opinions is not allowed then


Thats good then.

If you want to ensure she has no long term affects then spaying her would be the best option IMO. I havent heard of any problems with fertility from the mismate jab so if you did want to breed from her in the future have that done, but do make sure to spay her after she's had the litter as pyo is a very serious problem that only spaying can prevent.

Unless anyone else can think of another, those are your only two options. Either are acceptable as far as im concerned


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

cassie01 said:


> i might have missed something here but i dont think the OP has actually said she is going to let her bitch have the pups, she said she was waiting to see another two vets before rushing in to the injection.
> 
> I too have heard bad things about the jabb and would be wary of using it myself, i would also want to make sure there was no other option before using it. im sure a few days isnt go to hurt her or the bitch, particually not knowing if she is definatly pregnant or not.
> 
> ...


i agree...
reading this thread i have read people actually having a go at her having this accident and i agree with getting the mismate jab but i think some members start getting very rude ..... and nothing will be achieved with this attidute


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

I think this thread should be closed the OP can then update once the decision has been made.
I hope it's the right one for the bitch in question.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> I think this thread should be closed the OP can then update once the decision has been made.
> I hope it's the right one for the bitch in question.


Agree with Sallyanne

And to the original poster! don't think bad of us please! we say as we do are we are as we are because we care! The only person you dog has looking out for her is you! you owe it to her to do the right thing. Not very nice for you admitidly! but ultamately we are thinking of your dog! Doesn't matter who it was! we would have all acted the same! please make the right decision and don't give up on us that easy!!
regards
DT


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Agree with Sallyanne
> 
> And to the original poster! don't think bad of us please! we say as we do are we are as we are because we care! The only person you dog has looking out for her is you! you owe it to her to do the right thing. Not very nice for you admitidly! but ultamately we are thinking of your dog! Doesn't matter who it was! we would have all acted the same! please make the right decision and don't give up on us that easy!!
> regards
> DT


Completely agree DT :thumbup:


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> again i reiterate i am getting second opinions before she has the jab. how hard is that to understand


Very hard to understand actually, why want a second opinion when you have had/heared so many opinions on here including breeders who believe me know a lot more on this subject than any vet, why not take the advice after all isnt that what you came on here for? i cant understand the minute i knew my dog/ puppy had mated ide would have been off to the vets for the jab, please get real think about this poor, poor pup.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

Im not being funny..it doesnt take long to call a few vets and get their opinions....i would of done that yesterday.....and your bitch could have been booked in today had the jab and this "accident" would be resolved for your dogs sake........instead your carrying it on and doing very little.....


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> MEMBERS are getting frustrated, i am getting frustrated.
> 
> You can all speak your mind - fine
> You cannot slag me off for an accident
> ...


Whether you return to this forum or not, that is completely your choice.

Had you found another forum to post on to ask for advice, you would have got the same replies from many, many people who probably wouldn't have been as easy going and patient as some of the posters here.


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

Nicci said:


> Whether you return to this forum or not, that is completely your choice.
> 
> Had you found another forum to post on to ask for advice, you would have got the same replies from many, many people who probably wouldn't have been as easy going and patient as some of the posters here.


don't make me laugh lol


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> don't make me laugh lol


How can you even talk about laughing..this is as serious as it gets for your girl!!


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

why is it taking you so long to make a few phone calls to different vets.....and get your "pup" sorted out........


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Nicci said:


> Had you found another forum to post on to ask for advice, you would have got the same replies from many, many people who probably wouldn't have been as easy going and patient as some of the posters here.


I agree with you Nicci,I can think of quite a few where the response from members would have been very blunt and quite hostile


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> don't make me laugh lol


I'm glad you find humour in this because none of us do!

How have you got on with the vets?


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> why is it taking you so long to make a few phone calls to different vets.....and get your "pup" sorted out........


Probably because she doesn't want to have the jab to start with,she is concerned about the side effects.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

sequeena said:


> I'm glad you find humour in this because none of us do!
> 
> How have you got on with the vets?


my question too sequeena......for gods sake how long does it take to ring a few different vets and get their opinion..... though i have a feeling any vet the op speaks to will advise the "pup" has the pups......


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> don't make me laugh lol


I'm speaking about other dog forums, you have the internet there obviously! 

Google UK dog forums and post on one of those then, see how accomodating they are! As far as I can see here folks have been easy going compared to the reaction you would have got from a couple of other well known forums!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Probably because she doesn't want to have the jab to start with,she is concerned about the side effects.


I would like to know what side affect the OP find worse than lossing her girl and a litter..No hold that thought i want to know what side affects she is worried about althogther


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

You know you lot dont deserve to know the outcome cos you know what you dont beleive a word i say anyway. Leave it with you to bitch between yourselves like you always do

'Laughing at the fact that you lot think you are easy going and patient'


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## kayz (Jan 18, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> my question too sequeena......for gods sake how long does it take to ring a few different vets and get their opinion..... though i have a feeling any vet the op speaks to will advise the "pup" has the pups......


Yeah I do too.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> don't make me laugh lol


It was not meant to be funny! It is serious, the reponse you would have form some would make us on here look like a load of pussycats!
regards
DT


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> I would like to know what side affect the OP find worse than lossing her girl and a litter..No hold that thought i want to know what side affects she is worried about althogther


i was just going to ask ......what are the side effects that could happen could someone tell me.....it might make the op then see.......sense......


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> I would like to know what side affect the OP find worse than lossing her girl and a litter..No hold that thought i want to know what side affects she is worried about althogther


Perhaps she's worried it will make her bitch infertile and she won't be able to make any money 



kellyxx said:


> You know you lot dont deserve to know the outcome cos you know what you dont beleive a word i say anyway. Leave it with you to bitch between yourselves like you always do
> 
> 'Laughing at the fact that you lot think you are easy going and patient'


Bitch between ourselves like we always do... amazing observation from someone who has been here for all of five minutes


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Something tells me this whole thing is actually a wind up.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> You know you lot dont deserve to know the outcome cos you know what you dont beleive a word i say anyway. Leave it with you to bitch between yourselves like you always do
> 
> 'Laughing at the fact that you lot think you are easy going and patient'


In your situation i wouldnt be laughing at anything!!! In fact i would be in tears that i had been so stupied and let it happen then i would be on the way to the vets still heart broken i had done that to my girl i would never forgive my self for being so irresponsible!!

deserve to know the out come? we have tried to help you mind you i dont think i want to know the out come..i have the feeling these pups will be born!!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> You know you lot dont deserve to know the outcome cos you know what you dont beleive a word i say anyway. Leave it with you to bitch between yourselves like you always do
> 
> 'Laughing at the fact that you lot think you are easy going and patient'


Your choice,

I am actually begining to think this maybe a wind up,with you keep posting "Flaming Posts"
Internet trolls do that


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## alyssa_liss (May 4, 2009)

i thought that , its 20 pages of going round and round in circles


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Snoringbear said:


> Regards the future breeding, are the dog's good examples of the breed? Have they been successful in the show ring? Assuming that you might use the male on her, has he had his hip and elbow scores?


Still keen on an answer to this.


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Perhaps she's worried it will make her bitch infertile and she won't be able to make any money
> 
> Bitch between ourselves like we always do... amazing observation from someone who has been here for all of five minutes


maybe not been logged on this forum long but i can sure observe this forum for months without u knowing ut:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Snoringbear said:


> Still keen on an answer to this.


Don't hold your breath for one! :001_tt2:


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> i was just going to ask ......what are the side effects that could happen could someone tell me.....it might make the op then see.......sense......


The worst imo would be pyro - which could result in the bitch having to be have her uterus removed
DT


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> maybe not been logged on this forum long but i can sure observe this forum for months without u knowing ut:


Yeah. Sure you have. Now go look after your dog


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Snoringbear said:


> Still keen on an answer to this.


Yes as am i...Im also still keen to know if the bitch has breeding endorsments witch might i add i have asked 3 times!!

Squeena if she thinks the side effect of having the miss mate is something to worry about then she should think about the side effect of the litter being born


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> The worst imo would be pyro - which could result in the bitch having to be have her uterus removed
> DT


Which entire bitches can develop without the injection as my bitch did.


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> maybe not been logged on this forum long but i can sure observe this forum for months without u knowing ut:


i think it is a wind up....the above statement looks that way.......


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> Yes as am i...Im also still keen to know if the bitch has breeding endorsments witch might i add i have asked 3 times!!
> 
> Squeena if she thinks the side effect of having the miss mate is something to worry about then she should think about the side effect of the litter being born


Good point DD  I don't think people realise they will end up mostly out of pocket after breeding


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> i think it is a wind up....the above statement looks that way.......


I agree!!! if she has been reading the forum she would know what winds us up!!


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> The worst imo would be pyro - which could result in the bitch having to be have her uterus removed
> DT


But that would not be life threatening would that just mean the bitch could not be bred.....


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> But that would not be life threatening would that just mean the bitch could not be bred.....


Exactly the point my dear


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> You know you lot dont deserve to know the outcome cos you know what you dont beleive a word i say anyway. Leave it with you to bitch between yourselves like you always do
> 
> 'Laughing at the fact that you lot think you are easy going and patient'


The only one doing the bitching is you because no-one here agrees with what you have allowed to happen and what you are continuing to do, I'm sorry I can't go "Awwww" cute puppies on the way, or say "Well done, you!"

Fact is you are willingly allowing yourself to "wait and see what happens" and continuing to put your poor bitch at risk.

As I stated earlier, there will be very little side effects that come with the mismate jab this early on, it will either lengthen her season, or she won't come back into season again for a while, which would give YOU time to sort YOUR dogs out, either by spaying your bitch or castrating your dog. Does that really sound so bad?


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> But that would not be life threatening would that just mean the bitch could not be bred.....


Im sure in the worse care yes it is life threatning!!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> But that would not be life threatening would that just mean the bitch could not be bred.....


Pyo is life threatening it will kill bitches if not treated asap.
It nearly killed my bitch.


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## kellyxx (Jul 27, 2009)

DevilDogz said:


> Yes as am i...Im also still keen to know if the bitch has breeding endorsments witch might i add i have asked 3 times!!
> 
> Squeena if she thinks the side effect of having the miss mate is something to worry about then she should think about the side effect of the litter being born


Read back through my previous posts will you and see that i am not letting her have the litter i am making 100% sure that the injection is safe before she has it.

get a lfie you lot all you can do is bitch bitch bitch when i have explained myself time and time again. If you would all chose to rush into the injection then so be it. there are natural remedies you can get that dont affect the dog. Anyone thought of that no!


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Pyo is life threatening it will kill bitches if not treated asap.
> It nearly killed my bitch.


Ah right but is the risk of Pyo low after having the mismate jab.......


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> But that would not be life threatening would that just mean the bitch could not be bred.....


That would be the worse case sinario as far as I know! It would also be very very bad luck!!! as so early the missmate would casue nothing more then what to us could be trmed a heavy period if done NOW! The vets I believe would have to point out the worse that could happen I believe - and the pyro would be the worst!
DT


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> Read back through my previous posts will you and see that i am not letting her have the litter i am making 100% sure that the injection is safe before she has it.
> 
> get a lfie you lot all you can do is bitch bitch bitch when i have explained myself time and time again. If you would all chose to rush into the injection then so be it. there are natural remedies you can get that dont affect the dog. Anyone thought of that no!


Natural remedies? Are you living in cuckoo land? ut:

You can say what you want but the fact is you posted here for everyone to see and now you don't like it because we aren't agreeing with you


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> Read back through my previous posts will you and see that i am not letting her have the litter i am making 100% sure that the injection is safe before she has it.
> 
> get a lfie you lot all you can do is bitch bitch bitch when i have explained myself time and time again. If you would all chose to rush into the injection then so be it. there are natural remedies you can get that dont affect the dog. Anyone thought of that no!


You have said you arent having the litter...but then you say you havent made your mind up your are thinking about it!! so clearly having the litter is still an option to you!!!

We dont bitch we try and give you the best advice from experince or research..If you cant accept this then so be it!! You bitches life is at danger and you are still on here moaning about us!!! Get you dog sorted for god sake what is wrong with people!!!!!!!!


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> That would be the worse case sinario as far as I know! It would also be very very bad luck!!! as so early the missmate would casue nothing more then what to us could be trmed a heavy period if done NOW! The vets I believe would have to point out the worse that could happen I believe - and the pyro would be the worst!
> DT


Thanks DT so there is absolutely no reason for this "pup" not to have the jab.......i dont understand what exactly the owner is waiting for then......surely in an hour she could ring as many vets as possible and have got their opinions by now.......


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

i dont get why people are still replying on here when she is obviously only going to do what she wants to do whatever she is advised,

unless it is some sort of wind-up and she is getting some sort of kick out of it ut:


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

animallover111 said:


> Ah right but is the risk of Pyo low after having the mismate jab.......


I know a few bitches who had the mismate with no effect,I don't know what the stats are but I would imagine it's quite low.

As long as you keep a close eye on your bitch afterwards and if your not comfortable with anything contact your vet.

I also know of lots of bitches who have never had a mismate and developed Pyo including my bitch she was 24 hours away from dying.She's fine now though


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

kellyxx said:


> Read back through my previous posts will you and see that i am not letting her have the litter i am making 100% sure that the injection is safe before she has it.
> 
> get a lfie you lot all you can do is bitch bitch bitch when i have explained myself time and time again. If you would all chose to rush into the injection then so be it. there are natural remedies you can get that dont affect the dog. Anyone thought of that no!


The longer you leave it, the more likelihood there is of incurring side effects. If you wait you may possibly reduce your option to spaying or a jab with the ejection of the foetuses. You are in a fortuitous position to ensure termination and retain her ability to breed at the moment.

Love to see the natural remedy though.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> Read back through my previous posts will you and see that i am not letting her have the litter i am making 100% sure that the injection is safe before she has it.
> 
> get a lfie you lot all you can do is bitch bitch bitch when i have explained myself time and time again. If you would all chose to rush into the injection then so be it. there are natural remedies you can get that dont affect the dog. Anyone thought of that no!


Your damn right I would rush out and have my bitch injected, why? Because I LOVE my dogs I'm seriously starting to question the kind of dedication you have to your poor girl though!

Instead of posting on here I'd be on the bloody phone trying to get the first appointment I could with any vet that could see me! 

There are no natural remedies for aborting a litter, if there are they are probably unreliable


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Snoringbear said:


> The longer you leave it, the more likelihood there is of incurring side effects. If you wait you may possibly reduce your option to spaying or a jab with the ejection of the foetuses. You are in a fortuitous position to ensure termination and retain her ability to breed at the moment.
> 
> Love to see the natural remedy though.


Totally agree,
Has anyone ever heard of a natural remedy for termination of a litter ?


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

For the life of me I cant understand what is wrong with people!!!! And NO I AM NOT referring to the OP!

The OP said she will consider her options, stop the slagging off!!
The vets said she can have the mismate any time this week no? So whats a a bit of thinking gonna do??
Why do people seem to think others are to take their advice, from an internet forum may I remind people, as Godsent and follow them to the letter in the next minute? When I read this thread it feels as if some think of themselves so highly that the mere fact that they deigned to answer should result in the OP bowing in awe in front on them! seriously!

Amazing the way people get worked up when their advice is not followed...people are asking for advice, not orders, and as hard as it may be to accept, people ARE free to make their own decision, to consider or disregard any advice...I for one disregard "advice" given in the shape of rude slagging off..dunno for others...

I do agree with what most are saying but I certainly also agree with someone researching the safest option for her bitch - some of you are convinced the safest is mismate, it does NOT mean she should to, she has the right to decide for herself and at least to take a couple of hours or a day to do so! You can explain the risks etc but slagging off is unnecessary and counterproductive! 

And accident happen! Not everyone is bloody perfect! My bitch was almost killed because my mother was stupid enough to walk her during her heat, she got mounted and my mother did not even tell me (I was abroad already) and the pups she was carrying almost killed her (emergency abortion and the like - not fun) - so yeah my mother WAS stupid, ill give you that, but certainly not to the extent that our bitch should have been taken away from us to go to someone else. Not every dog owner knows everything about dogs, spends hours on pet forums and read every book - it does not mean they are irresponsible, they just have a different view on dog ownership than some others (and probably that they have others things to do during the day...), end of!

Rant over, keep going, the thread is going to be closed and the OP is going to leave. Great results.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Natural remedy! HAHA 
What is that then? Tea leaves in her biscuits?


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Snoringbear said:


> The longer you leave it, the more likelihood there is of incurring side effects. If you wait you may possibly reduce your option to spaying or a jab with the ejection of the foetuses. You are in a fortuitous position to ensure termination and retain her ability to breed at the moment.
> 
> Love to see the natural remedy though.


Don't ask! a back street abortinist and a bottle of washing up liquid springs to mind!
sorry folks! but time I bailed out!!! Have tried to get to the poster both ways! but nothing seems to work!
Over to you guys!
All the best!
DT


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

Oblada said:


> For the life of me I cant understand what is wrong with people!!!! And NO I AM NOT referring to the OP!
> 
> The OP said she will consider her options, stop the slagging off!!
> The vets said she can have the mismate any time this week no? So whats a a bit of thinking gonna do??
> ...


thank god some one else can see it too. thought i was going mad!!!! im really getting pi**ed of with some of the members on here, thought they were better then this!!


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

kellyxx said:


> Read back through my previous posts will you and see that i am not letting her have the litter i am making 100% sure that the injection is safe before she has it.
> 
> get a lfie you lot all you can do is bitch bitch bitch when i have explained myself time and time again. If you would all chose to rush into the injection then so be it. there are natural remedies you can get that dont affect the dog. Anyone thought of that no!


I'm glad your not letting her have the litter now, It would be cruel wouldn't, At seven month's my lab still looked like a pup. She was kept away from my other dog's when she came into season, It would be like rape on a young dog like that


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Oblada said:


> For the life of me I cant understand what is wrong with people!!!! And NO I AM NOT referring to the OP!
> 
> The OP said she will consider her options, stop the slagging off!!
> The vets said she can have the mismate any time this week no? So whats a a bit of thinking gonna do??
> ...


I honestly can't see what there is to think about!

You either get the mismate,yes there are risks but not as many as expecting a 7 month old puppy to deliver a healthy litter.
I am concerned about the welfare of this bitch puppy and the OP should be taking advice both from experienced breeders from here,from the breed clubs and her vets,instead she s arguing on this forum.

Sorry speaks volumes to me!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> I honestly can't see what there is to think about!
> 
> You either get the mismate,yes there are risks but not as many as expecting a 7 month old puppy to deliver a healthy litter.
> I am concerned about the welfare of this bitch puppy and the OP should be taking advice both from experienced breeders from here,from the breed clubs and her vets,instead she s arguing on this forum.
> ...


I agree sallyanne!! There shouldnt be a doubt in her mind!!!


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> I honestly can't see what there is to think about!
> 
> You either get the mismate,yes there are risks but not as many as expecting a 7 month old puppy to deliver a healthy litter.
> I am concerned about the welfare of this bitch puppy and the OP should be taking advice both from experienced breeders from here,from the breed clubs and her vets,instead she s arguing on this forum.
> ...


exactly........most of us on here would not be wasting time we would have had our dogs at the vets first thing.......


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> I honestly can't see what there is to think about!
> 
> You either get the mismate,yes there are risks but not as many as expecting a 7 month old puppy to deliver a healthy litter.
> I am concerned about the welfare of this bitch puppy and the OP should be taking advice both from experienced breeders from here,from the breed clubs and her vets,instead she s arguing on this forum.
> ...


Unless there's a huge chunk of info that the OP posted and I missed it I completely agree with you Sal!

There should be no umming or aahing. You either get it or you don't, it's simple


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## animallover111 (Apr 25, 2009)

As far as i am concerned there is NOTHING to think about........


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> I honestly can't see what there is to think about!
> 
> You either get the mismate,yes there are risks but not as many as expecting a 7 month old puppy to deliver a healthy litter.
> I am concerned about the welfare of this bitch puppy and the OP should be taking advice both from experienced breeders from here,from the breed clubs and her vets,instead she s arguing on this forum.
> ...


The OP (or the rest of the world) does not know all the (obviously fantastic) credentials of Pet forum Breeders!! She cant just blindly follow the advice given on an internet forum, she has not way of knowing who is behind the screen giving it, so cut some slack for wanting to actually think and not just obey!

I can understand someone who listens to a vet more than to internet forumers (as wrong as it may turn out to be I give you that)...


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I honestly can't see what there is to think about!
> 
> You either get the mismate,yes there are risks but not as many as expecting a 7 month old puppy to deliver a healthy litter.
> I am concerned about the welfare of this bitch puppy and the OP should be taking advice both from experienced breeders from here,from the breed clubs and her vets,instead she s arguing on this forum.
> ...


I agree too. There are only 3 options.

Mismate - done asap to avoid side-effects.
Spay - can't mate in future.
Have litter - bitch too young, no health tests etc

Why not just pick one now? There's plenty of info on the interent regarding all options.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Oblada said:


> The OP (or the rest of the world) does not know all the (obviously fantastic) credentials of Pet forum Breeders!! She cant just blindly follow the advice given on an internet forum, she has not way of knowing who is behind the screen giving it, so cut some slack for wanting to actually think and not just obey!
> 
> I can understand someone who listens to a vet more than to internet forumers (as wrong as it may turn out to be I give you that)...


I see where your coming from! But why hasnt she got on to the other two vets for a second opinoin yet then! There really is no excuse for that one!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

The way i see it, the OP has 3 options...

1. Let her have the litter.
2. Have the Mis-Mate jab.
3. Have her spayed.

I see nothing wrong with looking at all options, although i feel the first one is the riskiest of all, considering her age, breed, and the possible health implications.

As Alizin can be given up to 45 days after mating (i think) then a few days isnt going to make much difference. However, the sooner it is used, the safer and more affective i believe. Ive known of a few dogs that have had the jab, now whilst i dont know a huge amount about the drug itself, i know there were no long term problems. ALL drugs have side-effects, and yes vets have an obligation to inform owners. But you have to weight up the pros and cons. If the drug was such a risky option, then it wouldnt be on the market. Its been created for a reason.

If you wish to have her health tested, and breed from her in the future, then you are down to one choice and thats the Mis-Mate jab.

I do feel your vet is very irresponsible for having suggested she has the litter, but having worked in practice, i know just how ill informed vets are when it comes to breeding.

What it boils down to, is what it best for your bitch. You cant think about the future, and if she may or not may be able to have puppies, but you have to think about the here and now. Her life possibly hangs in the balance, and you have to look at whats more important to you. Her as a pet, or her as a possible breeding bitch.

If she were mine, id have the injection. If i truly felt that the jab was far too risky in regards to side effects, then id have her spayed. Her life would be far too valuable to even contemplate risking it.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Oblada said:


> The OP (or the rest of the world) does not know all the (obviously fantastic) credentials of Pet forum Breeders!! She cant just blindly follow the advice given on an internet forum, she has not way of knowing who is behind the screen giving it, so cut some slack for wanting to actually think and not just obey!
> 
> I can understand someone who listens to a vet more than to internet forumers (as wrong as it may turn out to be I give you that)...


Not a lot of point in posting the question on the forum then in there! NO-ONE would under normal circumstances recommend NOT seeking veternary assistance! BUT! as others have said many vets have little experience of breeding! other them putting the bloody mistakes right! normally by a C section!!! OH maybe there is a reason to contine with the pregnancy afterall!
DT


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Oblada said:


> The OP (or the rest of the world) does not know all the (obviously fantastic) credentials of Pet forum Breeders!! She cant just blindly follow the advice given on an internet forum, she has not way of knowing who is behind the screen giving it, so cut some slack for wanting to actually think and not just obey!
> 
> I can understand someone who listens to a vet more than to internet forumers (as wrong as it may turn out to be I give you that)...


So get in touch with the breed club then! or her girls breeder!

For gods sake is it really that difficult,personally i wouldn't trust a vet regarding breeding,most of them have never bred a litter in there life,just pick up the pieces afterwards when things go wrong.

I'm sure any decent breeer,breed clubs and vets would be the same as the majority of us on this thread and be horrified!


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

just because she hasnt jumped into getting the jab straigt away is no reason to get mean!! im guessing she has never used it before and i for one like to know all the facts before jumping in to somethign, especially as far as medicines are concerned!! have you not read the side effects on most medicines, they are well scary.

as iv already said i would want a few opinions first and to do as much research as possible before doing anything like this.

you have all given your advice and because she hasnt followed it straight away youve all turned agressive!! shes probably scared and confussed already and instead of helping your pushing her away, personally i wouldnt want to follow the advice of raving loons either, so if she doesnt follow you advice it will be your fault!!!!!!

some one has asked for some help and all youve done is made their situation worse, well done!!!!

as far as im concerned youve put your points across (not very sympathetically) and now you should leave the OP to make up her own mind, she wouldnt post here if she didnt care and want some help so im sure she loves her dog and will do whats best by her.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> The way i see it, the OP has 3 options...
> 
> 1. Let her have the litter.
> 2. Have the Mis-Mate jab.
> ...


Excellent post Jenna x


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> The way i see it, the OP has 3 options...
> 
> 1. Let her have the litter.
> 2. Have the Mis-Mate jab.
> ...


great post - calm and concise!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Oblada said:


> great post - calm and concise!


Just as it were for the first five or so pages of this thread! shame it took another twenty to get back on track!

I can more then understand members frustations taking to account the amount of badly breed dogs in the country today! And lets not forget the rescus that are busting at their seems!
DT


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Threads like this are becoming more common DT and it is so depressing to read and must be even more so for those involved in rescue.

Sad extremely sad


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

for once i'm speechless.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Threads like this are becoming more common DT and it is so depressing to read and must be even more so for those involved in rescue.
> 
> Sad extremely sad


Have ordered the cement Sally !!! you wanna load too?? They are duelling the road by the side of us! (Nottingham to Leicester) so have the final destination lined up!!
lol
DT


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Just as it were for the first five or so pages of this thread! shame it took another twenty to get back on track!
> 
> I can more then understand members frustations taking to account the amount of badly breed dogs in the country today! And lets not forget the rescus that are busting at their seems!
> DT


mmm...not quite...it was ok at first..then some "moral stand" was introduced..then she mentioned what the vet had said (and thus admitted to not - How my god - doing exactly as told by pet forumers in the next hour) and from then on it went from bad to worse with members losing no time to make assumptions about her as a person and a dog owner.
Anyway I doubt she will come back to tell you this. I do trust she has listened to some of the advice but probably not thank to the way it was put to her by some.


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

Oblada said:


> The OP (or the rest of the world) does not know all the (obviously fantastic) credentials of Pet forum Breeders!! She cant just blindly follow the advice given on an internet forum, she has not way of knowing who is behind the screen giving it, so cut some slack for wanting to actually think and not just obey!
> 
> I can understand someone who listens to a vet more than to internet forumers (as wrong as it may turn out to be I give you that)...





dexter said:


> for once i'm speechless.


I'm not just don't want to get banned:cursing:


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Have ordered the cement Sally !!! you wanna load too?? They are duelling the road by the side of us! (Nottingham to Leicester) so have the final destination lined up!!
> lol
> DT


Definatly DT,
This superglue is next to useless it ain't working!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

Badger's Mum said:


> I'm not just don't want to get banned:cursing:


 what was the quote for?


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Definatly DT,
> This superglue is next to useless it ain't working!


so I have noticed Sally! so I have!!! wonder if we could get a bulk discount!!!
lol
DT


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Definatly DT,
> This superglue is next to useless it ain't working!


By the way!! where's Dundee when you need her!!lol
DT


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## tiddlypup (Oct 4, 2008)

reading through this i find the op is trying to get advice and weigh up the pros n cons,she is also listening to a vet,ok the vet isnt giving the best advice but the op hasnt said shes definately having the litter just trying to do whats best
i do know of a dog having the jab and still had a pup
kellyxx good luck in whatever you decide,only you can make the decision and like you said you have to live with whatever you decide


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

Badger's Mum said:


> I'm not just don't want to get banned:cursing:


Was replying to Dexta's qoute about being speechless, shaw most people understand what i ment


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## charlie9009 (Nov 24, 2008)

I don't know much about breeding, but I know that you shouldn't let a pup of 7, nearly 8 months have a litter. It will be far too much strain on the bitch, and even if she has the pups and all goes well, she will probably end up with health problems later on due to all the nutrients she neds to grow properly now going to the pups. 

Not knowing much about breeding I would seriously take into account the advice givin on here by people who have alot of experience with breeding. If you are not going to let her have a litter now, as you said a few posts back, then youare left with two options. The mismate jab, or getting her spayed. You have said you want her to have a litter in the future, so that would leave only one option.

If you think the jab is too risky then you will have to get her spayed, as the pregnancy is far riskier! 

I can't really see what else there is too think about. I can understand you wanting to research about it, but those are your only three options, and one is deffinatly to risky to even consider in my eyes!! 

Please do the right thing by your pup.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> By the way!! where's Dundee when you need her!!lol
> DT


Just what I was thinking.


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## charlie9009 (Nov 24, 2008)

And I forgot to say, you can phone the vets for advice. I'm sure most vets would advise over the phone as to what they think is best, so they don't even have to be local. Get on the phone tomorrow and phone round a few vets. That's what I'd be doing.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

people on here seem to have the attidute "if u dont do what i say in the next 5 mins then ur an ireresponsible owner" .....

i for one would never do anything whats been told on here, be it training or heath wise, before i would ALWAYS get it backed up in the "real life" first before making any decision at all....... hmy: 
Ur giving ADVICE and NOT ORDERS .....


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

Kellyxx, i question any medication before i give it to my dogs.I don't booster jab unless a titre blood test says i need too,i use homeopathy,accupuncture and would much rather use alternative medicine everytime BUT i also breed labradors and i can promise you there is no natural/herbal remedy that will terminate an unplanned pregnancy.Thankfully i have never had to use it but i'm afraid if i was in your position i would-tonight.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2009)

bucksmum said:


> Kellyxx, i question any medication before i give it to my dogs.I don't booster jab unless a titre blood test says i need too,i use homeopathy,accupuncture and would much rather use alternative medicine everytime BUT i also breed labradors and i can promise you there is no natural/herbal remedy that will terminate an unplanned pregnancy.Thankfully i have never had to use it but i'm afraid if i was in your position i would-tonight.


A great post!! very well said indeed!
DT


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