# Border Collie cross Retriever not getting along with Malamute puppy



## chrisholgate (Nov 14, 2011)

Hi, 
I have a two year old Border Collie cross Golden Retriever, Izzy, that I have been taking to work with me since we got her at eight weeks.

Essentially I work in a shop which has an office above it. I work in the office upstairs and she just hangs around, plays with toys, goes out for a walk at lunchtime and sometimes goes downstairs to meet and greet customers.

Everything was fine until recently when a colleague of mine bought in a Malamute puppy and the two really don't seem to be bonding. The Malamute seems happy as Larry and on the whole is non-aggressive but it does seem to be trying to become the dominant animal discretely by lying in doorways, knocking in to my dog etc. A couple of times shes had a little nip or a growl but shes a little puppy; its never been anything particularly aggressive.

Izzy is completely passive and unwilling to put this little puppy in its place but seems to be getting more and more upset whenever in the building. At the time of writing shes lying under my desk panting and shaking and its heart-breaking to see. It looks like EXTREME fear which when viewed from a human perspective seems irrational.

This behaviour happens whenever the Malamute is in the building, even if she is locked away behind a closed door. I dont fuss over her when shes getting upset (however other staff do so despite how many times I tell them that shes not a human baby) as I know that this can reinforce the fear.

I think my dog is obsessive over the small puppy and turning the essentially small domination tricks of the puppy in to something larger than it actually is. Shes usually good as gold with other dogs; in fact theres a Spinger cross Collie that also comes in to the office and the two get along like a house on fire.

As the Malamute isnt really doing anything aggressive I dont think the behaviour of this dog is going to be changeable however it would be nice to allow Izzy to associate the Malamute with something other than fear. Food treats and toy treats dont interest her when around the Malamute and even if they did the Malamute is very food possessive so I dont think offering her treats when in the vicinity of the other dog would be beneficial.

Realistically one of us could leave our dog at home but I love the fact that this intelligent breed doesnt have to be left at home alone and bored all day so I would rather allow them to get along together than go down this path.

Ive probably missed a great deal of detail out so if there is any further information I can provide please let me know. Thanks in advance for your help.

Chris


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Have you walked the dogs together at lunchtime and allowed them to have a bit of "getting to know you" away from the enclosed environment?


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## chrisholgate (Nov 14, 2011)

Aye, just taking them for a walk now actually.

They appear to be fine out together however they both have very different priorities. Izzy wants to chase things and the Malamute wants to eat things; they don't really interact directly with one another per se even though we walk them together.

Have been doing this daily for the last couple of weeks so they can hopefully interact in a 'fun' environment.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

How old is the Malmute and what sex is it, how old was the pup when your colleague got him or her?

I notice you say the pup isnt aggresive? People unfamiliar with sled dog breeds can be alarmed at the way they play they do body slam each other, they do pin each other down, and the do bite and nip, its not unusual to see one getting its mouth around the other ones head, or getting hold of each other by loose skin and dragging each other around, they can be vocal when they play too. For many more "domestic breed" owners it can be very worrying.

One thing I would say is that Mals do need very early socialisation and very early obdience training with out it they will become stroppy buggers. Whilst mine do play the rough sled dog games with their own sort they do play different with other breeds. Just wondering how much research your Colleague did before getting the dog and how much training and socialsation he has sone since he/she got the dog.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> How old is the Malmute and what sex is it, how old was the pup when your colleague got him or her?
> 
> I notice you say the pup isnt aggresive? People unfamiliar with sled dog breeds can be alarmed at the way they play *they do body slam each other, they do pin each other down, and the do bite and nip, its not unusual to see one getting its mouth around the other ones head, or getting hold of each other by loose skin and dragging each other around, they can be vocal when they play too. *For many more "domestic breed" owners it can be very worrying.
> 
> One thing I would say is that Mals do need very early socialisation and very early obdience training with out it they will become stroppy buggers. Whilst mine do play the rough sled dog games with their own sort they do play different with other breeds. Just wondering how much research your Colleague did before getting the dog and how much training and socialsation he has sone since he/she got the dog.


Then Dottie is a Mal in a Jack Russell costume..

xxx


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## chrisholgate (Nov 14, 2011)

The Malamute is five months old and female. My colleague has had her since she was around two months old.

To be honest, it wouldn't really bother me if she was playing rough as long as Izzy was receptive to it as playing; shes one of those dogs that wouldnt hurt a fly and I think this method of playing is being taken as aggression. I think she may have been pinned a couple of times, nipped a couple of times and growled / barked at a few times and is now overly cautious to the point where shes thinking that shes about to be put in her place, even if nothing is going on. 

Just to confirm, shes usually fine with other dogs, irrespective of size however as a dog shes very obsessive and twitchy so has a tendency to make things appear worse than they are. Also, the Malamute isnt actually being actively aggressive, just playful, but the two definitely dont seem to quite be seeing eye to eye!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

What you have described is pretty much the reaction of my old girl every time I've introduced a new puppy into the household.

I think they are a bit fearful and because they are well mannered they simply won't tell the little stranger (who has no manners at all) off.

I have a pup at the moment and won't allow her to jump all over the two older bitches. The eldest tends to come into the bedroom next to the computer to get out of the way and I always leave the door open for her, but I suppose in your case the confines of the office don't allow your bitch room to escape.

In my experience the relationship usually improves rapidly as the puppies grow and learn some manners.


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## Tami Bryant (Jan 30, 2012)

The malamute Mia belongs to me :0), I didnt do a lot or research before I got her but sure have since,

She is a female of just over 5 months old I got her at around 12 weeks, she was very small and underweight when I got her and she still is, She has had Campylobacter possibly for as long as I have had her and has found it impossible to gain any weight, and as her food literally "flies" out of her she always seems starving!!She is quite the poo connioseur !! And I constantly have to empty her mouth of disgusting little treats she picks up on our walks!! which hasnt helped digestive matters any, this goes some way to explain her food issues ,but I can take any food ,bone or toy away without any problems as can my daughter, she is made to sit while her food is put down and must wait until she is given permission to move forward and eat, and will now(after a bit of training)take food very gently from your hand, However if another dog was to approach her or be in the same area as her and food then there would definitely be a brawl !!

She is very sociable absolutely loves people, we have to stop and say hello to everybody we meet! She also loves playing with other dogs, we go out 3 times a day and always meet other dogs in the parks beach and surrounding areas she is meeting at least 5  10 dogs every day some regulars some new dogs and as long as she doesnt get trampled she interacts well, and when she does get trampled she cries and curls up waiting to be saved,She does show territorial behavior though when inside,sometimes in other peoples houses she will try and take over the place, she does also spook quite easily groups of boys on scooters or bikes or running around she will try to bolt, she also for some reason doesnt like men in high vis jackets ? 

She will do anything for food, knows all her basic commands..Sit, stay, down, leave (when it suits her) paw, high five, speak etc and walks really well on the lead ...Recall.... well we have about an 90% success rate at the moment sometimes she is perfect and back instantly ..Others I may as well be talking to the wall, a whistle and pocket full of chicken treats definitely help, and she does things if she thinks there is something in it for her, not unlike my teenage daughter!

She can be very vocal, especially first time she sees somebody in the morning, its not aggressive which I have explained to the humans but its not so easy to explain to Izzy that shes just excited to see you!! I think it scared Izzy this morning and put us back to square one for a bit, Recently Izzy has been keen to get in and play with Mia I dont think she really minds the rough play either, as if it got a bit too bitey I would separate them put Izzy back in her office and within minutes she would be coming back in to resume play, I do have a video of them playing a bit roughly and Izzy isnt trying to escape, Its weird she seems ok with Mia one day then a nervous wreck the next 
:0) Tami


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## chrisholgate (Nov 14, 2011)

I guess in that case the question we're both asking is how do we encourage good, friendly play and cohabitation between two dogs with incredibly different attitudes and temperaments? 

Im guessing that Mia needs to know that she needs to play with Izzy in a way other than the way she would with other Malamutes and needs to stop being territorial over objects and areas that should be shared such as water, food, doorways, routes of access etc.

Izzy on the other hand needs to stop obsessing over the other dog, especially when she's not even in the same room as her and Mia is not doing anything that could be considered nasty. The possibility of her enforcing her position as an equal and commanding respect from Mia under her own steam is incredibly unlikely as she is a very non-confrontational and submissive animal.

As it stands currently, when theyre in the building together shed either cower in the opposite end of the building on the downstairs floor and hide away from any human or dog contact to avoid any potential confrontation. Alternatively, if forced she will sit upstairs, pant, shake and cower for an entire working day.

Any tips for friendly play and preventing a scared Collie from obsessing would be gratefully received by two tired and stressed out pet owners who just want to get some work done


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Mia sounds like a pretty normal Malamute to be honest, and the loving people is pretty classic and how she should be, my Boys the same. 

You may be having a period of change just starting though. At around 4 to 8 mths they do start to get more independant and will push boundaries you will likely find that her recall will get worse possibly instead of better. Your breeder should have warned you that really Malamutes because of their high prey and hunting drive shouldnt really be let off unless in an enclosed safe area. Training and ongoing training is likely to be more important now more then ever as she starts the next possible phase. 

As regarding being spooked at things out on walks like the Hi vis and other things, around 6mths plus they can enter a fear of the unknown period where even ones that were really outgoing and take things in their stride again react to new sights sounds and situations again with uncertainty and even fear. It does pass you just need to allow them to work out the fears unfounded.

You may find too as she sexually matures she will push it with other dogs, especially other bitches she will likely also take up a challenge if offered, Malamutes as you may know already can be known for same sex aggression. It could be the fact that her more forceful personality is beginning to emerge, as she is beginning to mature and that together with the more rough primitive way she plays, is putting Izzy off, especially if she is a more timid unsure of herself type female.

I personally would continue taking them out for walks together. I would also
although I dont know how hard it will be because I dont know what the office set up is like, give them their own space particulalrly izzy, so that she feels she has somewhere to retreat too and her own space, something as simple as a table with her bed under it and a throw or something over it to make a Den might help. Chewing is a destresser for dogs, does she have chews and things like stuffed Kongs while she is at work with you, I know Mia is food agressive so they wont be able to have them whilst anywhere near each other, but if they have got their own space then they could both have something like this separately.

Other then then that I would continue to give the two of them bursts of times together like the walks, and when Izzy seems relaxed and content enough to mix, but as soon as she looks stressed or like Mia is getting to much then give her her own space. Hopefully over time doing it this way, it may balance itself out.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

You need to get Mia onto a raw diet, Mals do extremely well on it and our first Mal, Marty couldn't tolerate anything else. The vet will most likely disagree but try joining Icebaymals forum and gain advice from there. Breeders with many years experience on there. Keep an eye on Mia as Mals can have same sex aggression and you have to be aware of that beginning, if I were you I wouldn't put the other little girl through all the stress she is having by having the two dogs together at all unless on walks together.

Not a good idea to research Mals AFTER getting one though, they can be very difficult dogs when growing up, taking up to three years to fully mature and because of this many are now in rescue! 

Try reading this book, only five pounds and is invaluable: 
Work Wonders: Feed Your Dog Raw Meaty Bones: Amazon.co.uk: Tom Lonsdale: 9780975717400: Books


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## Tami Bryant (Jan 30, 2012)

HI, I did do some research before I got her, Just not as much as I have done since,
I get totally mixed messages from people to be honest, I know some people who always let their dogs off ...some that never do. Some that have both a bitch and a dog and only let their bitch off as the dog is so grumpy, some that only let their dog off because the bitch is too grumpy
for now Mia plays really nicely with all the dogs she meets, Her regular playmates are mostly female, She hasn&#8217;t shown any aggression at all and knows when she&#8217;s pushed her luck with the bigger dogs, however I am always watching her, We meet all sorts of dogs on our walks all shapes and sizes some are friendly some aren&#8217;t,
I&#8217;m aware I have my work cut out for me and as such am pretty much always on her case, constantly reminding her of her place in the family and reminding her of her commands ,Her ending up in a rescue is not an option!
Every person I know with a dog has their own issues, and as yet apart from &#8220;normal&#8221; things I would expect from a pup (and recall I have been made a bit of a nervous wreck about the whole thing) I haven&#8217;t had anything that&#8217;s made me want to stick my head in the oven, Calm before the storm perhaps ? 
I will have a look at Icybaymals though I&#8217;m sure there will be plenty of helpful things to read on there thanks &#61514;


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

All breeds will have breed traits in common, but individuals can have them to a greater or lesser degree. Personally I dont let mine off unless it is a safe enclosed area. I always do controlled introductions before hand and only when Im sure they are going to be fine, they get let off to play.

My Boy Malamute, whilst not aagressive with all dogs will certainly be with some, He like all bitches but if he is ever going to put up a challenge or take one up true to form, it will be a male, usually above a certain size (small ones not bothered he is very sociable with) and usually nearly all un neutered ones.
He liked all dogs until he got to around 9mths when he started to be come sexually mature then the change occured.

Likewise my Mal/Sibe mix, she still likes all males, but as she has got older certain females she really doesnt like, usually if and above a certain size, again she will challenge or take up one, little dogs though not bothered at all.
So you may well have some changes coming as she is only 5mths all you can do is carry on the socialisation and keep up the training and watch how her behavior continues to progress.

One thing I would say about her relationship with Izzy, you cannont push it at all, If Izzy is forced to spend time with Mia, or feels trapped then it will just make the problem worse. If they are OK outside and Izzy is relaxed I would over the net few weeks concentrate on that first. If Izzy is relaxed then lots of calm praise. The rest of the time though I would make sure that Izzy can have her own space with her own things.

Its not unusual for an older dog, to totally ignore a new pup at first, or they will usually growl, airsnap or lunge, and even chase off a pup to set boundaries if the pup is persistent and pushy. Then usually when the pup has the message, then they start to entertain the pup on their terms.
With Izzy though it deffinately doesnt sound like the normal ignoring the pup, if she is shaking hiding and generally stressed then its not the usual response.
So Mia deffinately does un nerve her. In all honesty only time will tell if Izzy will accept her I think.

There are some natural calmatives you can try to see if it makes things any better. DAP Dog appeasing pheromones can calm and soothe dogs, you can get a plug in diffuser form a collar, or a spray. Best maybe would be the Plug in the office and the Collar if you are going to continue to try the walks.
Vets and pets at home sell them, but cheaper on line Online Vet | Get Cheap Pet Medicine and Treatments Online From Vet-Medic - Vet-Medic
There are other herbal ones too, scullcap and valerian Dorwest Herbs do that,
and there are others like KalmAid and Zylkene. None are drugs and are all natural, if you want to have a look at those.

Dorwest For Scullcap and Valerian
http://www.nutri-science.net/pets/pdfs/KalmAid DL.pdf For KalmAid
Zylkène - For life&#39;s ups and downs The Zylkene you can buy from the link above and I believe the KalmAid too.


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## Tami Bryant (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks for all your responses,I was thinking maybe walking them together in the morning before work? (this would mean chris getting here earlier than he usually does however and his wife is expecting there first child any day) and have them entering the building at the same time as usually Mia and I get here about an hr before chris and izzy which means izzy is having to enter while mia is upstairs excitedly "wooing", also with Mia being territorial of things in the office Ie the water bowl should I make her sit while izzy drinks from it? or is this just gonna prove to make her more likely to dislike izzy and get more shirty with her,obviously I'm very lucky to be able to bring Mia into work with me,and am very greatful to chris for not just demanding I leave her at home,Im prepared to try anything to get izzy relaxed around Mia and they have, and am sure could again get on really well at times! 
thanks in advance 
Tami


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