# Grey Kittens



## 00powells (Apr 27, 2013)

Hi,


New to the forum, so sorry if i've created an unneccessary thread.

I have a litter of 4 Grey coloured kittens, 1 male 3 female. Mother gave birth 2 weeks ago.

From my understanding Grey kittens are fairly rare? they arent pedigree. Any idea of recommended sale price? need to be sold as moving house in a few months event hough i'd love to keep hold of them!

thanks in advance.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

Will they be neutered vac'd..flead or wormed when they leave and how old will they be xx


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

If you are going to hold on to them until they are 12 weeks old and get them vaccinated, wormed and treated for fleas, which would be a fantastic thing, then there is no reason why you shouldn't ask for some of these costs back. You could also factor in the cost of mums spaying as well as presumably she will need doing?


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

00powells said:


> Hi,
> 
> New to the forum, so sorry if i've created an unneccessary thread.
> 
> ...


Colour doesn't make a difference to most registered pedigree breeders' sale prices and shouldn't boost your sale price if they are moggies, all moggies from the same litter should be sold after 12 weeks at the same price regardless of colour

Try to get them neutered before they leave or make it a requirement of the new owners to neuter them, as far as sale price goes, I'd just charge how much it cost to vaccinate, deflea and deworm them (including the spay/neuter if you choose to do that before they leave)


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## 00powells (Apr 27, 2013)

Thanks for the responses.

I believe we are ready to let them go around the 8-10 week mark?

They will be treated for fleas and worms. There is no plan to get them vaccinated at this stage.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Grey kittens are not that rare amongst moggies, the colour is actually just diluted black. My black cat had 3 grey/blue kittens when I was a child.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

00powells said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> I believe we are ready to let them go around the 8-10 week mark?
> 
> They will be treated for fleas and worms. There is no plan to get them vaccinated at this stage.


It needs to be after 12 weeks, this is the stage when they learn vital social skills and become truly independent from their mother. Letting them go before this stage can result in seriously anxious and/or aggressive cats that are likely to end up in rescues when people can't deal with them anymore

The first vaccination should be about 9 weeks, could you at least get the first one done before they leave? It's important to protect them and others from diseases, especially since you may not know who the dad is and he could've passed on diseases to their mother

When you treat them for fleas and worms, get the treatment from your vet, the supermarket bought stuff isn't effective anymore, take it from experience!


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## 00powells (Apr 27, 2013)

Thanks Treaclesmum,

from your experience what is a selling guide price for these kittens?


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

00powells said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> I believe we are ready to let them go around the 8-10 week mark?
> 
> ...


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

Where abouts are you to think they're rare xx


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

You need to wait until they are at least 12 weeks old for them to be re-homed. Please consider neutering them as well as the mum. You were responsible for allowing your cat to get pregnant and bring more unwanted cats into a world already overcrowded with unwanted cats. It is the *very least* you can do to ensure these kittens don't add to the insidious equation by getting them spayed before re-homing.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

00powells said:


> Thanks Treaclesmum,
> 
> from your experience what is a selling guide price for these kittens?


If your just to flea and worm just sell covering your price xx


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

I'm sorry but there are some red flags going off here. These are not "rare" cats and you are not going to make a profit. You will be lucky if you break even. Was making money part of your intention in breeding this cat? If so your priorities are way off


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

No matter what you sell them for, if you tot up the cost of food, litter, deworming and defleaing treatment, you'll never get a "profit" just because luck would have it, your girl or her one-night-stand has a dilute gene. You should count yourself lucky because without that gene you'd have all black kittens, who are notoriously hard to rehome

Sell them for whatever ridiculous price you want, you'll never get that "profit" you want from the luck of the sperm draw.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

ok firstly as you seem to believe rarity calls for a higher price to be paid suggests that when your cat became pregnant you saw pound signs. the world as someone else has already said is crowded with cats in rescue homes and shelters all over the country, some of which have been there for most of their lives because people dont want them. its a shame to add anymore to this equation. secondly, if you are going to sell these kittens then 12weeks is the very minimum they can leave the mother...before this will cause complications so no they certainly will not be ready to go at around 8-10weeks. when selling these cats you must have them checked by a vet and also de-flead, de-wromed, vaccinated and spayed....this is the healthy and responsible way to do it. if you are not going to spay these kittens then have the new owners do...it is best not only from a more unwanted litters perspective but also from health as it reduces the risk of both mother and her kittens contracting diseases and some cancers later in life.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

00powells said:


> Thanks Treaclesmum,
> 
> from your experience what is a selling guide price for these kittens?


Sad really that you are thinking of the money and not whats best for the kittens or the homes.

Is that all you want to know is how much are they worth?


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

00powells said:


> Thanks Treaclesmum,
> 
> from your experience what is a selling guide price for these kittens?


All of our blue kittens were rehomed for free through our local Cats Protection.....


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

if you cannot afford to have them spayed then go to your local rspca as they can give owners who are unable to afford spaying their pets vouchers so that this can be done for free or for a donation of £20, they collect and drop them off too. The CPL do vouchers, the Blue Cross and RSPCA both have assisted cost surgeries in some areas, and if you google it then there are other charities that may be able to help.This is only if you genuinely cannot afford to have all of them spayed not to be used as a "get out of jail free card"


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

As far as i know rspca and cp dont do early neutering so kittens need to be around 5 months old, then you have the trust of a new owner actually neutering which being called a "rare" colour some people may think not to neuter.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> As far as i know rspca and cp dont do early neutering so kittens need to be around 5 months old, then you have the trust of a new owner actually neutering which being called a "rare" colour some people may think not to neuter.


My local RSPCA will do it as early as 3 months for owned cats and 2 months for feral cats 

OP, if you do change your mind, take a look at this site and see where you can do it in your area... Find an Early Neutering Vet


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> As far as i know rspca and cp dont do early neutering so kittens need to be around 5 months old, then you have the trust of a new owner actually neutering which being called a "rare" colour some people may think not to neuter.


Im not sure about the age at which rspca or cp do neutering but I thought if he cant afford the spaying it was worth making him aware that there is places who are willing to help people do this if they cant afford all the costs themselves  plus now that the mother cat has had her kittens he will need to have her spayed also 

that is a problem, by saying they are "rare" will only cause the wrong interest from irresponsible breeders trying to make a buck.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Bear in mind OP, registered breeders of_ truly rare_ purebred cats seldom make a profit or even break even. They are doing it as a hobby for the love and enhancement of the breed. The word "profit" is not part of the vocabulary of a true ethical breeder. Replace the word "profit" with "passion" in the case of an ethical breeder.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> Bear in mind OP, registered breeders of_ truly rare_ purebred cats rarely make a profit or even break even. They are doing it as a hobby for the love and enhancement of the breed. The word "profit" is not part of the vocabulary of a true ethical breeder.


could not have said that better myself


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Guessing the OP won't be back...

Think they truly expected us to go _"Wow, that is rare! £100 minimum, don't let them go for any less because you won't get your monies worth as they're so rare!"_ : :mad2:

It's not like this person took the time and effort breeders do to get the colours they want, to progress the breed and that colour and pattern in the breed. Why on earth should you get more money than anyone else who opened the back door for their girl in heat?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> Bear in mind OP, registered breeders of_ truly rare_ purebred cats seldom make a profit or even break even. They are doing it as a hobby for the love and enhancement of the breed. The word "profit" is not part of the vocabulary of a true ethical breeder. Replace the word "profit" with "passion" in the case of an ethical breeder.


Well said TT ... Passion passion passion


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Blue isn't a rare colour it only means mum and dad were either blue or carried dilute there are members on here who had blue tabbies born its not rare.


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## lynnenagle (Mar 15, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Blue isn't a rare colour it only means mum and dad were either blue or carried dilute there are members on here who had blue tabbies born its not rare.


I have 2 blue and grey tabby babies just now. Sophie, my cat, was the only one out of her litter that wasn't grey!


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

lynnenagle said:


> I have 2 blue and grey tabby babies just now. Sophie, my cat, was the only one out of her litter that wasn't grey!


And I know that not once have you asked how much you can get for them


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## 00powells (Apr 27, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> I'm sorry but there are some red flags going off here. These are not "rare" cats and you are not going to make a profit. You will be lucky if you break even. Was making money part of your intention in breeding this cat? If so your priorities are way off


I never stated they were rare, "From my understanding Grey kittens are fairly rare?" was my quote, it was a question (hence the question mark) not a statement.

I came on to this forum for help, as i know little about breeds etc. Some of you have been helpful which i am sincerely grateful for.

Consequently from most people's help, I now know that Grey cats are not rare.

"Think they truly expected us to go "Wow, that is rare! £100 minimum, don't let them go for any less because you won't get your monies worth as they're so rare!" - That isnt the case. As i said in the opening message i will be selling them due to a house move. We're all animal lovers at the end of the day so dont just spring to the negative thoughts please.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> And I know that not once have you asked how much you can get for them


Think Lynn's keeping them all  lucky mum and kittens get to stay together! 

When we went to get Nora, her previous owner said she was "rare" being a blue tortie-tabby with white, I had never had a tortie-tabby before or a blue cat, but I was a bit skeptical about how "rare" she could be. Personality wise, she's a bit of a rare gem  and I made sure the lady kept her price down as she wanted £70! Got her for £45, not even deflead or dewormed, she was a bit of a wreck really


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

00powells said:


> I never stated they were rare, "From my understanding Grey kittens are fairly rare?" was my quote, it was a question (hence the question mark) not a statement.
> 
> I came on to this forum for help, as i know little about breeds etc. Some of you have been helpful which i am sincerely grateful for.
> 
> ...


It's great that you know for sure now that that is the case

Have you taken any time to reconsider your decision to not vaccinate them before they leave? Maybe a spay/neuter too?


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## 00powells (Apr 27, 2013)

Since your help and you've advised that this is probably best, I will certainly be looking into it. I did with my previous cat


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

You aren't going to like me - but could we lay off with the hassling of newbies to get their cats early neutered. It's actually not very common over here even amongst breeders and just getting people to keep kitten for longer than 6 weeks is the first goal. If they are scared off by having to think about early neutering they aren't going to hang around for other advice. I know in the US , Aus and NZ it's been common practise for about 25 years - but it really is very new in the UK and I really would rather kittens were wormed and well socialised and left home at 10 weeks than got rid of at 6 weeks because the owners were worried about the cost of early neutering, (which for a litter of 5 is about £300). People who say they can't afford to neuter one cat aren't going to neuter 5! 


So please, let's tread gently here. If we frighten them off we do no good at all. Once the member is firmly on our side then is the time to mention early neutering - remember the majority of cats in this country are moggies that go to their new homes at 6-7 weeks. Let's raise that age first, get routine worming done, mum spayed etc as a priority, then think about EN. 

And yes grey kittens aren't rare - and without a pic these might even be fever coated blacks.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

00powells said:


> Since your help and you've advised that this is probably best, I will certainly be looking into it. I did with my previous cat


That's great


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

00powells said:


> I never stated they were rare, "From my understanding Grey kittens are fairly rare?" was my quote, it was a question (hence the question mark) not a statement.
> 
> I came on to this forum for help, as i know little about breeds etc. Some of you have been helpful which i am sincerely grateful for.
> 
> ...


this may have been the case for you but can you not understand from an animal lovers point of view why people were sceptical especially as your post is about selling kittens?

If you dont know anything about breeds thats fair enough, you should have asked questions about the breed but based on the comment "they will be ready to leave at 8-10 weeks" proves that you also do not know anything about cats in general as kittens cannot leave their mother (regardless of breed) until 12weeks otherwise it poses great risk to the kittens and their development.

there are many people who come on forums like this who know absolutely nothing about the animals they are selling and who are only interested in the money and how much they can get. which ,as stated, your original post came across as such.

before the kittens leave you they should be de-flead, de-wormed, vet checked and vaccinated and also spayed it is in the best interest of the cats that this is done.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm not sure how old you are but maybe you're a young teenage girl with not as much experience as a lot of us and thought you would like to see your cat have a litter and make a bit of money selling them?

Mistakes are made but please take notice of what has been said and spay your girl once these kittens have new homes or of course before the kittens leave as she could still call again beforehand. If you are only worming and de fleeing then just charge for that and let it be a lesson learnt that no money can be made from letting your moggy out to get pregnant.

Grey cats are not rare but I'm sure they are beautiful and I hope you find them all a good home but pass the knowledge which you have learnt from the forum to the new owners and ask them to neuter/spay the kittens as soon as possible before they reach 6 months of age. It would be horrendous if these babies got out and got pregnant on their first call as it could prove fatal for them if their little bodies are too young to cope.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

00powells said:


> so dont just spring to the negative thoughts please.


Sorry, but when the price of what you can charge for kittens appears to be your first and foremost concern, you are going to get people thinking negative thoughts. Not to mention you came on thinking you could somehow get more for them because you thought grey was a rare colour.

Add to that you stated you thought they could go at age 8 -10 weeks and that they will not be vaccinated and neutered.

So yes, there are negative thoughts and TBH you have posted nothing to remove any negative thoughts. Why did you breed this cat in the first place if you _know nothing_ about breeds and breeding?


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## lynnenagle (Mar 15, 2013)

As it stands i can't find anyone good enough for my babies so guess they're all going to have to stay here 

Op, stop looking at the babies as a way of making money! At the very least you should be keeping them till they're 12 weeks, vaccinations, flea treatment and worming done. 
In the unlikley event someone does come along who i would trust these babies with, it would have to be someone so close to me that i wouldn't ask for money for them!


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Just a point to note: grey cats are not usually referred to as grey rather they are said to be blue.


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## 00powells (Apr 27, 2013)

SamanthaGoosey and Sharonbee, very helpful comments and I do appreciate the advice.

Toby Tyler, your comments havent been particularly helpful but more "digging" comments so therefore i wont be using this forum again.

Many thanks to all that have helped, you have certainly expanded my knowledge and having them vaccinated will now be a priority.

Thanks


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Why are you leaving, comments on every thread arent what people want to read but they stick around.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Leave and you leave behind a vast amount of knowledge - if you don't like one person's comments then block them.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

00powells said:


> SamanthaGoosey and Sharonbee, very helpful comments and I do appreciate the advice.
> 
> Toby Tyler, your comments havent been particularly helpful but more "digging" comments so therefore i wont be using this forum again.
> 
> ...


I dont think that toby tyler meant for his comments to come across in that manner and not using the forum again is a bit, in my opinion, over exagerating the situation...you wont always get along with people you meet its a part of life. but to not use a forum because of 1 person is a bit over the top (again just my opinion and trust me ive had my fair share of bad comments on here)


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

00powells said:


> SamanthaGoosey and Sharonbee, very helpful comments and I do appreciate the advice.
> 
> Toby Tyler, your comments havent been particularly helpful but more "digging" comments so therefore i wont be using this forum again.
> 
> ...


Shame you're choosing to leave, as this forum would be a great help in the coming months from weaning to getting mum spayed

I'm glad you've chosen to vaccinate now though  about the spaying/neutering, if you can't do it yourself, maybe you could make it a requirement in the contract you draw up with the new owners? I'm not the best person to explain the contract (it's great for basically ensuring the future of the kitten), but if you'd like it stick around, I'm sure someone with experience will explain everything to you


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Another one bites the dust! You have to be thick-skinned to post on a forum: any forum. Otherwise best to stay away. As the saying goes: if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

00powells said:


> SamanthaGoosey and Sharonbee, very helpful comments and I do appreciate the advice.
> 
> Toby Tyler, your comments havent been particularly helpful but more "digging" comments so therefore i wont be using this forum again.
> 
> ...


So wait,you got more helpful comments than anything else, but because TT was "digging" at you, you won't be using the forum again? Seriously? That's like saying "I love my job and I get paid well and everything is great, but I had a bad day today, so I shan't be going back!" Seems a tad melodramatic and even self-defeating as you've got a litter of kittens and you aren't going to stick around on a forum that can help you if anything happens to them while they're little just because someone hurt your feelings.


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

That is a shame as no one was rude. If by coming here mum gets spayed and you hold on to the kittens a few more weeks than originally planned then that would be fantastic.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Nobody is having a go at you, believe me....

It is just that your initial questions were the least important ones as far at the kittens' wellbeing is concerned, and there are far too many people who breed cats in order to make money, without any consideration for the cats' wellbeing. By the questions you asked, and the ones you didn't ask, you created the impression of being one of these people. 

Please don't get into a huff, you cannot really blame people for reacting to the information you are giving.....
I think I speak for all of us when I tell you that you are very welcome and that we are very relieved to learn you are not a back yard breeder but a genuine cat lover who is willing to take the advice on board. 

If you stick around you will learn a lot of things that will greatly benefit your cats, and you will meet lots of nice people and gorgeous cats in the process. Many of us are either breeders or volunteers at rescue centres (or both). I have had cats all my life, know a lot about them, but I am still learning lots and lots of things on this forum. I love hearing about other people's cats and see the pictures, and I think you will, too.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

To me a thread is for the benefit of everyone reading, not just the OP. Posts can be taken personally or the advice can be either ignored or taken into consideration. It's all about choice. 

I don't consider anything I posted as rude or out of line. Sometimes hearing cold hard facts is not what people want to hear. I'm sorry, but if what I post prevents one other person to re-consider the ethics of backyard breeding or having another ooops pregnancy, then frankly I don't give a damn if I am hurting feelings in the process. It's the innocents I'm speaking for. The ones who don't have a choice or a voice in the matter. Those are the true victims here. 

So if you came on here expecting a pity party instead of seeking advice, then by all means leave the forum. However, if you would like good honest help from caring cat owners, then I suggest you stick around.

By the way, I have been called a conniving sod sad evil cow amongst other things and I'm still here.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

toby tyler earlier I reffered to you as "him"  I have been told you are infact female. I assumed because of the name and because your picture hadnt been showing on my page properly...just like to apologise for that...I feel so silly now lol


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

GeorgiiePixie said:


> toby tyler earlier I reffered to you as "him"  I have been told you are infact female. I assumed because of the name and because your picture hadnt been showing on my page properly...just like to apologise for that...I feel so silly now lol


Awww stop  No apology needed. I have done it, I'm sure most of us have and you certainly aren't the first. :lol:

Toby Tyler was my beloved cat who passed away at age 13, nearly one year ago. It's funny though, sometimes when I get jabbed on the forum I take it as an insult to Toby Tyler.


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## GeorgiiePixie (Apr 11, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> Awww stop  No apology needed. I have done it, I'm sure most of us have and you certainly aren't the first. :lol:
> 
> Toby Tyler was my beloved cat who passed away at age 13, nearly one year ago. It's funny though, sometimes when I get jabbed on the forum I take it as an insult to Toby Tyler.


no I really did need to apologize, I felt like a numpty lol 
aaww  to be honest I would probably be the same


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I agree with spid, everytime someone comes on this forum asking for advice they get a lecture on spaying, neutering and vaccinations[which i have said before]
Maybe the op did think grey kittens were rare, probably because often people wanting a kitten ask if there are any grey ones
If the op cant afford to spay or neuter then they cant, simple as that
If the kittens being moggies are kept for say 10 weeks its not like they are going at 6 weeks, which is definitely wrong and far too young,
Please give newbies a chance, or frighten them off
There are always negative comments, instead of advice about the most important thing to begin with which is worming with wormer from the vet and making sure there are no fleas
The other is making sure you know they are getting good homes,and advising new owners to vaccinate and neuter
The op could always get the first vaccination done at 9 weeks and the new owner the second at 12 weeks
The price needs to be a reasonable one to recoup costs of feeding worming etc, but also to make sure the people who want them are gong to be good pet owners
We all know what sometimes happens to kittens given away for free, 
I know i wont be popular for saying this either, but i dont care,


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

The most common moggie colours/pattern around here are brown tabby, blue tabby, black self, blue self, black & white, blue & white, black tortie, blue tortie, red.
With blue being the correct term for 'grey'

Price should be just to cover the vet work you've done, raising them for 12 weeks is just a loss you absorb by having kittens.


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## tabulahrasa (Nov 4, 2012)

They're not rare round here - mostly because there's a blue tabby tom around who impregnates any un-neutered queens, including one litter with a cat in my street that I'm fairly sure is his daughter.

Unfortunately kidnapping your neighbours' cats to have them neutered is not really an option...tempting as it is.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

tabulahrasa said:


> <snip>
> Unfortunately kidnapping your neighbours' cats to have them neutered is not really an option...tempting as it is.


You sure about that? I had a couple done a few years back and the world didn't cave in...


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## Sansa (Oct 19, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> You sure about that? I had a couple done a few years back and the world didn't cave in...


And ten to one the neighbour will never notice.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I once had a tom neutered because everyone assumed he was a stray. I even put up posters and went door to door asking about him. I also advertized him on the missing cat sites, with no response at all.
So I took him in and had him neutered, and gave him a home.
After 2 weeks I let him out again, and within an hour there was a man at my door asking why his cat was wearing a collar with my details.

I explained everything to him and gave him the eye drops for his cats inflamed eye. He was very nice about it and offered to refund the vet cost, but when he got home, his wife got a hissy fit and set the police on to me.
Apparently she thought it normal to leave a tom to roam unneutered, and wasn't bothered if he didn't show up for 2 or more weeks. They hadn't taken him to the vet for his sore eye, either.

Some people.......


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Many years ago in New Orleans there was a hoarder who had FeLV cats multiplying in the neighborhood. These cats had wounds and ulcers, it was beyond heartbreaking. You could hear cat fights in the wee hours of every morning. I took in two of these FeLV cats and as I've mentioned, this is where my real passion for cats began. 

Next door neighbor suddenly had two kittens, brother and sister, probably from the same lot. They were completely outdoor cats and very young, obviously going to just contribute to the untenable situation going on in the neighborhood. They hung around my house, not his. There was no food, they were left to their own devices. 

I took them to the vet, got them vaccinated and re-homed them together to someone who was going to keep them indoors and get them neutered. 

I was the suspected culprit when they "went missing" and the police were called, but the cops told him the cats should have been on a leash (leash laws applied to both dogs and cats) and it was his loss.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

Shame you have decided to leave, it would have been nice to get to know you.

I do know how some posts can come across as being hurtful but if you don't like it ignore it, don't get upset and leave, no one is worth getting upset over especially as you have never met them.

I know how it feels as I left a forum after 4 days as there was one Rex breeder on there that was very insulting towards me...whatever I said was wrong.

A forum is for opinions and not rudeness, no one is right and no one is wrong, every one has different opinions.

I always try to say in my opinion I think...... that way I am not saying 'you are wrong and I am right'....if that makes sense? 

I wish you well and hope you find the right homes for your kittens and all the best with the house move.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

jaycee05 said:


> We all know what sometimes happens to kittens given away for free, I know i wont be popular for saying this either, but i dont care,


I am currently fighting myself to not go see and rescue some kittens which are just up our road---sign out front says "Free Kittens". I know where some are going to end up and what their little lives will be like. If we took a couple, at least they'd be assured of a good lifelong home. But we really shouldn't.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Grey kittens?,

I know im on my mobile so may have missed it, what breed are they and are you planning on selling them with papers


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

In the context of the thread currently in the rescue section, people shouldn't be pilloried for suggesting early neutering kittens (pedigree or non pedigree). In the context of the thread currently in the behaviour section, there is no harm in suggesting people hold on to their kittens longer than 8 weeks.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

I too am with Spid I would say less than 10-20% of pedigree breeders in the UK early neuter, I myself am not entirely sold on it yet although it would be good to find a vet that would consider it in case my mind changes I like to be prepared. My current litter to early neuter would be about £400 being all females and without a doubt would never happen with a moggy litter. We haven't even managed to convince BYD and moggy breeders to keep their kittens past 8 weeks yet, I think jabs and appropriate worming and fleaing needs to be achieved before anything else. I was appalled that a friends sister recently sold kittens at 5 weeks. I was tempted to contact DEFRA and report her for illegally selling unweaned animals and here she is with her 3rd litter since August time... Stupid Stupid woman.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

it's not the mentioning that is the problem - it's the constant hassling and pushing of it before the newbie has even got a foot in the door. Yes, I early neuter but round here I am going to have to drive for an hour to get to a vet that does - for some people that isn't possible. So yes, mention it, but don't stuff it down their throats before the wee ones are even born. A softly softly approach ALWAYS wins more friends and has a greater influence in the long term.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Laurac said:


> In the context of the thread currently in the rescue section, people shouldn't be pilloried for suggesting early neutering kittens (pedigree or non pedigree). In the context of the thread currently in the behaviour section, there is no harm in suggesting people hold on to their kittens longer than 8 weeks.


Another reason this old cynic questions when things don't add up, obvious lies are posted. or when a thread appears to be soliciting advice to only further a BYB operation. Am more than willing to help someone who is genuine in seeking advice. It's the lies I've seen on this forum that I have a hard time dealing with in a 'nice' way.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> Another reason this old cynic questions when things don't add up, obvious lies are posted. or when a thread appears to be soliciting advice to only further a BYB operation. Am more than willing to help someone who is genuine in seeking advice. It's the lies I've seen on this forum that I have a hard time dealing with in a 'nice' way.


got nothing to do with age hunny xx


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

No one is saying dont give advice about vaccinating,or early neutering, but it goes on and on about it in almost every post, 
Suggesting is one thing ,constantly ramming it down peoples throats is harrassment, tell them once what is best to do, but leave it at that, telling them
a hundred times wont make any difference,and will only alienate them, 
How many times have people said they were leaving the forum, because of the sometimes nasty and sarcastic remarks
Advice is one thing,dictating to them is another, even if they are in the wrong , for having moggy kittens , the deed is done,and cant be undone, so friendly advice is what is needed,whatever our private thoughts are
RE; selling 5 week old kittens, some was doing the same here, but were reported to the RSPCA and she had to have the mother cat spayed ,or taken away
Even worse the poor little things were found living in a shower tray in the bathroom


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

spid said:


> it's not the mentioning that is the problem - it's the constant hassling and pushing of it before the newbie has even got a foot in the door. Yes, I early neuter but round here I am going to have to drive for an hour to get to a vet that does - for some people that isn't possible. So yes, mention it, but don't stuff it down their throats before the wee ones are even born. A softly softly approach ALWAYS wins more friends and has a greater influence in the long term.


I fully agree.
What I want, and what I assume all pet lovers on this forum want, is to help other people do right by their cats.

Some people may come on to PF with some very warped ideas of what they should do, some even fail to see cats as a serious responisbility. If we are to change that, we will need to convince them there is a better way to handle things, and to get them to act in such a way that the cats' needs are met as well as possible.

In order to achieve this, we need these people to respect and trust us. How are we ever going to convince them we have a point if we cannot make them listen and understand?

Antagonizing people will only get their hackles up, and everything you say from that point onward is wasted energy, as you will no longer be heard.

If someone does not listen, shouting louder has no effect, as they will only plug their ears against the noise. 
If you want to be heard, it is better to speak softly, so people will actually TRY to catch what you say. A soft-spoken message is considered far more valuable than somtething you are practically forced to take notice of.

Lure people in, don't blow them away..........
It requires a lot of self-restraint, but the effect will be a lot greater in the end....

And it is the result that counts....


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Toby Tyler said:


> Another reason this old cynic questions when things don't add up, obvious lies are posted. or when a thread appears to be soliciting advice to only further a BYB operation. Am more than willing to help someone who is genuine in seeking advice. It's the lies I've seen on this forum that I have a hard time dealing with in a 'nice' way.


The problem is that you are so direct about it, you tend to drive people into a corner.
Which is a great tactic if you are catching a thief on the street, if you outnumber the enemy and are just keeping them cornered for the police to arrive...

But on a forum, if you corner a person, they can just run and disappear.
Some gentle prodding and asking inconspicuous questions will get the truth out, too, and without the person running. Which means that someone like Catcoonz will be given a chance to help the cats, and our combined breeders can talk a slave through their cat's labour.

Believe me, I share your sentiments completely, and there have been plenty of occasions where you wrote the things I would have loved to write, but I try not to (though I may not always succeed), because I want to keep the door ajar for the people who can actually help the CATS, so I don't want to alienate the poster in question.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Jiskefet said:


> The problem is that you are so direct about it, you tend to drive people into a corner.
> Which is a great tactic if you are catching a thief on the street, if you outnumber the enemy and are just keeping them cornered for the police to arrive...
> 
> Which means that someone like Catcoonz will be given a chance to help the cats, and our combined breeders can talk a slave through their cat's labour.
> ...


Well when they act like a thief on the street, they just may be treated as one  As I have posted before, if my directness prevents one more accidental on purpose moggy pregnancy, then it's worth it.

And I believe there was an accidental pregnancy thread over this past week and weekend. No breeders were available to help. This person stuck around after my 'lecture' and thanked me personally for helping her get through the labour that I talked her through. I believe she is going to set up a TNR in her area.

So if my posts don't conform to your standards or the delicate sensibilities of others, then pardon moi.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I was lurking on that thread - you did well getting her through the birth.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

spid said:


> I was lurking on that thread - you did well getting her through the birth.


Thank you  And if I do say, I learned it all on PF! Have only had neutered male cats my entire life. But hell, there was no one else on


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I didn't want to interfere as you were doing well.
Too many cooks and all that.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

spid said:


> I didn't want to interfere as you were doing well.
> Too many cooks and all that.


Well bloody hell I wish ya would have  When she posted both cords were in mum and there was no placenta I was freaking and waiting for someone to chime in. And the mum was pushing for an awful long time for the first one. :yikes:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Toby Tyler said:


> Well bloody hell I wish ya would have  When she posted both cords were in mum and there was no placenta I was freaking and waiting for someone to chime in. And the mum was pushing for an awful long time for the first one. :yikes:


It was fine! I wasn't there for the very first bit. You did very well. All you really can say is 'if there is a problem go to the vets'.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Toby Tyler said:


> Well bloody hell I wish ya would have  When she posted both cords were in mum and there was no placenta I was freaking and waiting for someone to chime in. And the mum was pushing for an awful long time for the first one. :yikes:


Had the two cords thing, with the mother turning round in circles to try to get to the kittens swinging from her behind. Solved it by breaking the cords as far from the kittens as I could with my fingers.

Anyway, all is well.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Toby Tyler what age is the most common for kittens to leave in your part of the US I know over here in Canada its 8 weeks for puppies and kittens unless its one of the tiny breeds of dogs eg: Chihuahuas etc...Just curious my last litter of kittens was over 20 yrs ago my Moggies are/were fixed before their first season....The more I look at 8 week old kittens it surprises me that the age doesn't raise to 12 weeks as with small breed puppies


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Not quite the question you asked - here in the UK it's 13 weeks for GCCF-registered kittens as they have had their second vaccination by then.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

canuckjill said:


> Toby Tyler what age is the most common for kittens to leave in your part of the US I know over here in Canada its 8 weeks for puppies and kittens unless its one of the tiny breeds of dogs eg: Chihuahuas etc...Just curious my last litter of kittens was over 20 yrs ago my Moggies are/were fixed before their first season....The more I look at 8 week old kittens it surprises me that the age doesn't raise to 12 weeks as with small breed puppies


TBH, I don't know have only had strays or purebreds. Cricket was a stray that was exceptionally young, 4 weeks at the most.  None from my breeder were younger than 13 weeks. I thought she was just trying to hang on to them as long as possible.  When I got Rufus and Clancy, I couldn't wait, Clancy was ready but Rufus wasn't so I waited till both were ready. Clancy was 16 weeks.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Thanks...my youngest 2 were 3 or 5 weeks both resuces dropped off at my house (don't remember age for sure). The lady called my house and was just going to drop off the kitties somewhere she had 5, a local vet said they could take 3 so I took the other 2 wasn't looking for a kitten as my old girl had just passed away (15) and the other then 13 now 17 really didn't like kittens...All worked out in the end but I don't talk to this lady anymore she ticked me off. My girls


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