# Shar-pei x GSD 12 week puppy.Food advice please



## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Hi, we may be getting a shar- pei x gsd this weekend which is 12 weeks old. We want to be prepared so i really want to know what food people would suggest. I know that Shar pei's need certain foods for their skin, but not sure how the mix with the gsd will change this. Any advice would be most appreciated


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

IF you choose to go ahead with the puppy, from the pei point of view a grain free kibble is a must. A raw diet would be even better

A strange mix and not one that I have come across before


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

A strange mix, really? My parents used to have shepherds, and we had a few litters from them. Once our rottie got with our gsd bitch, the pups were gorgeous and grew up to be really good dogs. Hopefully these will turn out good too, well as long as they are given the time and patience i'm sure they will, and they will get that. Hear of a lot more stranger mixes than this. 

I did read about the food for shar pei has to be cereal free and that a fish based or chicken based food is better for them than red meat based, but that's about as much as i've found out so far. I will of course find out what the current owner is feeding it.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Grain free foods

Fish4dogs
Simpsons sensitive
Arden grange do a salmon and potato
Wainwrights turkey and veg

There's more but I can't think off the top of my head. My pick would be fish4dogs, highest meat content


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

what an odd cross...................... sharpeis appear to be crossed with a lot of breeds recently. does any one have a sp cross , be interested to see some pics of them if anyone has such a cross.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Yes, must agree its a nutty cross - be prepared for some health issues in later life and perhaps some entropian issues too.

I would feed raw


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

yep i agree . re; health issues


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Where's best to get this food from, the nearest pet shop to me is a petsathome, but looking through their site i can't really see a suitable food compared to these. The highest protein content they do seems to be the bakers complete, is this any good?


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Bakers Complete?????



EEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!


Sorry, but thats a BIG no no!!

Better than that around if you wanna feed complete!


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Get Bakers or the like and you couldl have no end of skin problems

The above listed are fine, as is Wafcol salmon and potato. Try looking online for example petplanet


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> Where's best to get this food from, the nearest pet shop to me is a petsathome, but looking through their site i can't really see a suitable food compared to these. The highest protein content they do seems to be the bakers complete, is this any good?


petplanet, vetuk, berriewoodsm zooplus, simpsons own site is the only place for that I believe.

Stay away from everything in the supermarket. And the only grain free is pets at home is fishmongers and their wainwrights grain free ones.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> Where's best to get this food from, the nearest pet shop to me is a petsathome, but looking through their site i can't really see a suitable food compared to these. The highest protein content they do seems to be the bakers complete, is this any good?


I'd avoid Bakers like the plague, horrible stuff


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up on bakers. Had another look through there. They do the wainwrights salmon and potato for puppies. Think i'll go for that.

Surely health issues are relevant with a lot of dogs. A pure high bred shar pei i aggree can suffer from alot of problems, and all the time we had gsd's the back legs were the issue. The cross bred shar pei seems to suffer less from the abundance of facial folds, and with the hopefully stockier build the back legs will be stronger. If it needs it's eyes tacked it will need them done, end of. The seller has had a previous litter and he still sees some of them now. He has told me that they are all in good health. At this time i can only take his word


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

So this is a second presumably deliberate mating/litter? Sorry I cannot agree with such a cross however, the pups are on he ground now, so I hope you enjoy your pup and that he/she remains healthy


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> Thanks for the heads up on bakers. Had another look through there. They do the wainwrights salmon and potato for puppies. Think i'll go for that.
> 
> Surely health issues are relevant with a lot of dogs. A pure high bred shar pei i aggree can suffer from alot of problems, and all the time we had gsd's the back legs were the issue. The cross bred shar pei seems to suffer less from the abundance of facial folds, and with the hopefully stockier build the back legs will be stronger. If it needs it's eyes tacked it will need them done, end of. The seller has had a previous litter and he still sees some of them now. He has told me that they are all in good health. At this time i can only take his word


That will be the hybrid vigour theory? Which is, to be quite frank, a load of hairy plums!

A quick search on this site, which I'm too cream crackered to do, will bring up a reference regarding the BMS or breed mean standard, for hip scoring, for Labradors, as opposed to Labradoodles - you would think, as Labradoodles are a cross breed, the BMS would be lower, it isn't.

A cross breeder of such an unusal cross cannot guarantee anything, and won't sell you a pup with a contract, because they don't want to be held liable for any health issues in the future. A good pedigree breeder will sell pups under contract, and they will have tested for any inheritable defects, and made a decision regarding breeding taking those results into account. Has the breeder of this litter done any health tests at all? Because it isn't guaranteed that problems won't be passed on just because it's a cross breed, the pups may inherit the worst of both health problems, or the worst of both temperament/conformation problems, etc, etc.

I'm sorry if that sounds negative, it's not meant to be, it's just that so many times people who chuck a couple of dogs together use the same old excuses about health, ie pedigrees are inbred unhealthy creatures, and cross breeds aren't. I *hate* sounding smug, and it isn't meant to be that way but I own Labrador retrievers, which, many are under the misconception that they (overall as a breed) suffer terribly with hip problems. It really isn't the case, they don't, it's just you do hear about the minority with problems because of the power of the internet, I have a bitch here with perfect hips, one of not that many in the UK, and hopefully an increasing number for the breed, the more people score their breeding stock. I'd never (if I bred from her) advertise the pups as rare pups from 0:0 hip scored 0 elbow graded bitch, yet the amount of misleading adverts you see that don't even make accurate claims like that!


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

There must be some truth in it, widening the genepool etc? Take for example a lurcher, My dad stands by the fact the best dog/healthiest he ever had was a lurcher called Mandy that he used to course with. Ok i'm not saying it's an exact science, but there could be something in it. He hasn't offered any guarantees and to be honest if i don't like the dog, i won't take it.

In reference to your point about inheriting the worst of both, how about the reverse?

I do accept this is an opinion splitting subject, and this is a marmite subject, but it's not what i'm here asking, i'm asking about food suggestions


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

No, it's not a marmite subject, it's about genetics, which are black and white. The excuse most unethical cross breeders use, is that their cross breeds are healthy, because they're not pedigree, that's simply not true. I've owned four dogs, the unhealthiest was a cross breed, the healthiest dog I own is 100% pedigree Labrador retreiver, she has some of the best health test results in the country. 

Anyone who tells you a dog is healthier because it's a cross breed, is lying. Anyone who tells you a dog is healthier, because they've tested both parents, have looked at the possible outcomes of conformation etc, and knows that the mix will produce healthy pups, is like rocking horse poo. 

To put that in to context, I am against the breeding of chocolate Labradors purely for colour, why? Because people breeding purely for colour, whether they health test or not, do not breed for conformation necessarily, which can leave the pups open to developing problems later on in life. 

You must understand, dogs are not separate species, all dogs are dogs, and many of the gene pools are linked, so many of the same inherited defects are also possibly carried by different breeds.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks for your input. To be fair you've had 4 dogs and it seems you've picked some unhealthy ones. My family have had dogs all my life, and in total i have experienced having about 10 as long term family pets, in that time we've had to put only 2 of them down, both shepherds and both over the age of 13. And i've been there through plenty of litters when i was a kid. Aswell as the shepherds we've had jrt's, yorkies, and rottweilers. The shepherd x rotties we had were excellent dogs and i also had jrt x bitsa that i paid for myself out of pocket money, that dog was always in excellent health and was as fit as a butcher's dog. The mutts i've had personally have always been healthy dogs and other mutts we've had in the family have also been perfectly fine. The worst health of a dog was one my sister had and was a high pedigree prince charles cavalier, now that dog was always ill. 3 doors down from her had a pup from the same litter and it too had bad health.

What i'm trying to say is, you could pick 2 perfect parents of the same breed and still get an unhealthy dog.


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

May I just ask the colour and coat type of the shar pei parent?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> Thanks for your input. To be fair you've had 4 dogs and it seems you've picked some unhealthy ones. My family have had dogs all my life, and in total i have experienced having about 10 as long term family pets, in that time we've had to put only 2 of them down, both shepherds and both over the age of 13. And i've been there through plenty of litters when i was a kid. Aswell as the shepherds we've had jrt's, yorkies, and rottweilers. The shepherd x rotties we had were excellent dogs and i also had jrt x bitsa that i paid for myself out of pocket money, that dog was always in excellent health and was as fit as a butcher's dog. The mutts i've had personally have always been healthy dogs and other mutts we've had in the family have also been perfectly fine. The worst health of a dog was one my sister had and was a high pedigree prince charles cavalier, now that dog was always ill. 3 doors down from her had a pup from the same litter and it too had bad health.
> 
> What i'm trying to say is, you could pick 2 perfect parents of the same breed and still get an unhealthy dog.


Umm, no, you see, this is where misconceptions come in. My dad was a dog handler for the MoD, and trained war dogs, I've personally owned four dogs, but had experience of a few more.

My dogs, Indie, Pedigree Lab Retriever, low hip score, high elbow score, although contentious, so had her spayed, that's the short story.

Tau, half sister to Indie, pedigree, pretty much the best health scores you could want for a dog, she's bomb proof, in more ways than one.

Rhuna, Lab rescue, possibly about 13 years old, had been bred from in the past, left entire, given six weeks to live, lived about 7 months

Chloe, Lab Collie cross, had joint issues, deformed soft palette, and worst of all, temperament issues, that dog was just not right, she definitely inherited the worst of everything, although I did the best I could for her. She was handed in by her owners to be pts because they no longer wanted her, when I took her on, allegedly at 17 years of age, we guess more likely about 11 years of age.

So, before you part with your cash, let me ask you, has the breeder done appropriate health tests for each breed. Have they used the best breeding stock available, or just bred from two dogs they happen to own, or dogs they know someone owns who's a mate?


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

kudos to you for taking the time with older rescue dogs. Our main gsd dog we bred from was from military stock, one of the best dogs ever, highly intelligent, fit healthy and also very warm to snuggle with in his kennel.

The mrs has found this dog, she's fell in love with it. I haven't seen it yet. I haven't spoke to the guy. The parents are his own dogs. I very much doubt he has done testing on them. I've never bought a dog myself that i've asked to see health scores on and i don't feel it's something i'm gonna start doing now. I've never taken my own dogs to get health scores either, so i guess i may just have been lucky.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

pearltheplank said:


> May I just ask the colour and coat type of the shar pei parent?


sorry missed your post, black brush coat


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

This topic and the Dogs have been crossed reminds me of that Guy who was one a while back that X'd Sher pei's with EVERYTHING anyone remember him..

Not talking about the poster of this topic


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

snoopydo said:


> This topic and the Dogs have been crossed reminds me of that Guy who was one a while back that X'd Sher pei's with EVERYTHING anyone remember him..
> 
> Not talking about the poster of this topic


I think I know the chap you mean


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

snoopydo said:


> This topic and the Dogs have been crossed reminds me of that Guy who was one a while back that X'd Sher pei's with EVERYTHING anyone remember him..
> 
> Not talking about the poster of this topic


Don't worry this dog is to be a pet, i'm not gonna be putting him to stud with a pomeranian


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> kudos to you for taking the time with older rescue dogs. Our main gsd dog we bred from was from military stock, one of the best dogs ever, highly intelligent, fit healthy and also very warm to snuggle with in his kennel.
> 
> The mrs has found this dog, she's fell in love with it. I haven't seen it yet. I haven't spoke to the guy. The parents are his own dogs. I very much doubt he has done testing on them. I've never bought a dog myself that i've asked to see health scores on and i don't feel it's something i'm gonna start doing now. I've never taken my own dogs to get health scores either, so i guess i may just have been lucky.


The problem is, when you are breeding dogs and selling the pups, you should do the utmost to produce healthy progeny. Simply sticking together two apparently healthy dogs isn't enough, I know, as well as you, the health issues surrounding both pedigree breeds. They are both on the KC watch list, so, what if this particular litter inherit all the worst genetic defects?

I'll give you an example, look at PRA in Labradors, progressive retinal atrophy, which basically can leave a dog blind. There are three genetic statuses, Clear/normal, carrier, affected - those are genetic statuses, a dog may be 'affected' and never go on to develop the disease within it's lifetime. PRA is a fairly simple disease to track, so, if there's a genetic defect that common, and pra is common across a number of breeds, that it is traceabe and testable, why don't cross breeders at least test for the status of each pedigree dog. The simple answer, is, cutting corners, and tell people they are bound to be healthy because they're cross breeds, ie not pedigree.

There are people on here, who will willingly give you examples of healthy shar peis and healthy gsds, breed standard, who do not suffer, nor will they pass on health defects. Can this cross breeder do the same?


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Well obviously he ca't, all he can do is show me his 2 healthy parent dogs.

When i said about you having 4 dogs, i wasn't questioning your experience or knowledge, I was just trying to make the point that with the experience my family have had with dogs, we've found mutts to be very healthy dogs. I put more faith in my own findings than i do lab research where all stats can be schewed to show whatever. I'm asking for advice on suitable food, because i've never had a shar pei before, not on the ethics of having a cross breed although i appreciate your concern


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> I think I know the chap you mean


As do I, he's also still on the forum.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> Well obviously he ca't, all he can do is show me his 2 healthy parent dogs.
> 
> When i said about you having 4 dogs, i wasn't questioning your experience or knowledge, I was just trying to make the point that with the experience my family have had with dogs, we've found mutts to be very healthy dogs. I put more faith in my own findings than i do lab research where all stats can be schewed to show whatever. I'm asking for advice on suitable food, because i've never had a shar pei before, not on the ethics of having a cross breed although i appreciate your concern


And I've found the opposite, as I said the healthiest dog I have owned, and I think I will ever own, is my bitch Tau, she is a phenomenal dog in many ways, and very much discounts the unhealthy pedigree myth, just for the records, and because this thread may come up in searches, yet again, she is 0:0 hips, 0 elbows, pra and cnm clear, those pesky unhealthy Labrador retrievers 

Back to the question, I'm interested, are you going to ask the question, or just go ahead anyway despite the information? Part of the problem is ignorance, some of the people breeding these crosses truly believe their own hype, trust me, I've been told just how unhealthy Labrador retrievers are, which, when you own a dog with results as above, you can guess just how old hat it gets


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

To be fair this guy hasn't made any claims about super health of mongrels.He's just said his dogs are healthy and the litter before were all healthy. It's me making the claim about super health, and like you say, our own experiences always direct our judgements in future. And i'm so glad that your opinion wasn't shared by my high pedigree mrs when she picked me out(the oddly shaped shortarsed gorilla x caveman)


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## julianne (May 3, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> just for the records, and because this thread may come up in searches, yet again, she is 0:0 hips, 0 elbows, pra and cnm clear, those pesky unhealthy Labrador retrievers


impressive !!! First one i have heard of with 0:0 hips


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Health testing etc is always asked about, ultimately because it may be something the dog has been inflicted on unneccessarily and if testing could avoid the suffering then it should be done

To watch a close friends dog die before the age of 2 (and we are talking shar pei)suffering with a hereditary disease is quite unimagineable and I don't wish that on my worst enemy. 

I say again, I really hope your pup will be OK. 'Healthy-looking' parents is not the same as 'healthy'. Make sure you research the breed immensely


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> To be fair this guy hasn't made any claims about super health of mongrels.He's just said his dogs are healthy and the litter before were all healthy. It's me making the claim about super health, and like you say, our own experiences always direct our judgements in future. And i'm so glad that your opinion wasn't shared by my high pedigree mrs when she picked me out(the oddly shaped shortarsed gorilla x caveman)


Sorry hun, ain't meant to be a personal criticism, but no matter what you've been told, it has to be backed up by science. There are health tests available, if they haven't been done, they should have, and that's just poor practice, and put's the life of potential pups at risk  Not something any breeder would want, I'd hope.



julianne said:


> impressive !!! First one i have heard of with 0:0 hips


Now then, a friend of mine (known to swarthy so she'll put me right I'm sure if I get it wrong) owns a stud dog, she bred, or chose from a breeding, who has 0:0 hips, from the third generation of this score (not sure if that's both or one side of parents, but bloody impressive nonetheless) - Katie's affix is rivermeadow for anyone who wants to check that out.

Point is, there are many people out there who care, I could have bred Indie to a well known dual championship kennel, where we had been welcomed, despite her elbow grade, after considering it, I just didn't think it was worth risking whether I believed the grade was a true reflection of her status, and let me tell you, that was not an easy decision, the vet well and truly mucked things up there.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Sorry hun, ain't meant to be a personal criticism, but no matter what you've been told, it has to be backed up by science. There are health tests available, if they haven't been done, they should have, and that's just poor practice, and put's the life of potential pups at risk  Not something any breeder would want, I'd hope.


I'm not going on what i've been told about health scoring, i'm not going into the ethic of cross breeding. I'm simply saying i'm going to look at a dog, and if i like it, i'll buy it, the same way i've always bought a dog, and so far it's all turned out alright and i hope my judgement is right again if i choose to buy this one


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

sheriffjonny said:


> Don't worry this dog is to be a pet, i'm not gonna be putting him to stud with a pomeranian


 I said I was'nt talking about you hun  Your Dog breed just reminded me of someone else.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Sorry, but you're supporting the wrong sort of breeder in doing so. I've spent, nearly £1,000 health testing my bitches, if I never breed a litter, because it's in the best interests of my dogs, fine. 

When I see about people who bung two breeds together, I truly hope for the best for the pups. 

Let me make this clear, you do not know nor does the breeder know, the genetic status of the dogs that are the parents of this litter. If you choose to buy a pup from this litter you support that way of breeding, is this something you are happy with, or would you prefer to support a breeder that knows the genetic status of their dogs and makes any breeding decisions appropriately?


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## lozb (May 31, 2010)

sheriffjonny said:


> I'm not going on what i've been told about health scoring, i'm not going into the ethic of cross breeding. I'm simply saying i'm going to look at a dog, and if i like it, i'll buy it, the same way i've always bought a dog, and so far it's all turned out alright and i hope my judgement is right again if i choose to buy this one


Glad it's turned out alright for you so far 
Just to add... I have a Golden Retriever who was hunkey-dorey right up until he hit about 12 months - turns out he has arthritis.... not a whisper of it till then.
Hope your judgement is right but sometimes, you just can't see what's coming


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> I'm not going on what i've been told about health scoring, i'm not going into the ethic of cross breeding. I'm simply saying i'm going to look at a dog, and if i like it, i'll buy it, the same way i've always bought a dog, and so far it's all turned out alright and i hope my judgement is right again if i choose to buy this one


Just another quick off the top of my head statistic for you, I get asked approximately 15 times per month, if I have any chocolate lab pups available, they are the most popular. To cut a very long story short, I've helped three people, over approximately 3 years, find pups from ethical breeders. Every one of those I count a victory, and yet the rest of the enquiries go quiet, because it's too much effort to buy a pup responsibly 

edited to add, sorry, that sounds a bit harsh, not directed at you, but if you can see the way public opinion is towards THE most popular KC breed, perhaps that gives you an idea.....


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Sorry, but you're supporting the wrong sort of breeder in doing so. I've spent, nearly £1,000 health testing my bitches, if I never breed a litter, because it's in the best interests of my dogs, fine.
> 
> When I see about people who bung two breeds together, I truly hope for the best for the pups.
> 
> Let me make this clear, you do not know nor does the breeder know, the genetic status of the dogs that are the parents of this litter. If you choose to buy a pup from this litter you support that way of breeding, is this something you are happy with, or would you prefer to support a breeder that knows the genetic status of their dogs and makes any breeding decisions appropriately?


Is your issue with cross breeding, or breeding without doing health tests? Or both? Neither bother me, and i'll be the one buying the dog and taking on all that comes with it. I'm not gonna be looking to breed this dog with anything, so the line won't continue from my animal. If i'd placed an order with the person for them to go and actively breed it, you may have some sort of point, but i didn't. The dog is here right now in the living. If i don't take it someone else will, and they may not be as committed to the ownership of a dog as i am. Your points may be valid, but your argument now is after the fact, do you alwats shut the gate after your horse has run away?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> Is your issue with cross breeding, or breeding without doing health tests? Or both? Neither bother me, and i'll be the one buying the dog and taking on all that comes with it. I'm not gonna be looking to breed this dog with anything, so the line won't continue from my animal. If i'd placed an order with the person for them to go and actively breed it, you may have some sort of point, but i didn't. The dog is here right now in the living. If i don't take it someone else will, and they may not be as committed to the ownership of a dog as i am. Your points may be valid, but your argument now is after the fact, do you alwats shut the gate after your horse has run away?


My issue is with poor breeding, and this is a classic example. Whether or not you want to show, work, or have your dog as a lovely pet, do you cut corners as regards heath testing, for any one of those as above another? Do pet dogs not need good health test results? Yet another misconception spouted by the rubbish cross breeders I'm afraid, our dogs are healthier and don't require health testing, b*llocks! Again, not a dig at you, hopefully you can see the dual standards imposed by people who know nothing about pedigrees though.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

i see what angers you. If i get this dog i'm not gonna take it to get numerous scoring done on it tho. It'll get a visit to my local vet to be checked over and then it'll get a yearly check done on it at the same vets. Again i must stress to you this guy has said nothing about mongrels being healthier than a pedigree. He is not trying to mislead me, i made that call based on what i have experienced in my dog ownership.

On a side note(actually the opening question of this thread) you got any suggestions to add to the food choice? Think i'm gonna go for the wainwrights tho


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Ok, so let me get this right, despite being told both pedigree breeds have health problems, you're willing to buy a pup from untested parents. 

It ain't the breeder that angers me in that instance hun, it's the person that should know better, but chooses to still go ahead with the purchase because they can.

My dogs are raw fed, they have been since they came to me, the oldies I've rescued have been swapped over to raw food because it suited them. Shout if you need me


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Ok, so let me get this right, despite being told both pedigree breeds have health problems, you're willing to buy a pup from untested parents.
> 
> It ain't the breeder that angers me in that instance hun, it's the person that should know better, but chooses to still go ahead with the purchase because they can.


The dog is here right now, it's been born, i can't change that fact. Do you think that this dog should just be destroyed now? I won't be breeding it, just owning it, i havent asked the guy to breed this particular kind of dog have i. Are you really saying i'm encouraging the guy to breed this kind of dog, i'm not someone will buy it, they may then choose to breed it, therefor carrying on the same kind of breeding tactics. I won't so at least one of his dog's line will not be multiplying


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Right, I'm hovering between quoting, post reply, quoting etc, and I'm darn near turning into a pumpkin but here goes. 

First question, has this person done health tests on their dogs, if not, walk away, and look for a pet dog elsewhere. 

Pet dog does not equal second class, it should equal carefully bred dog that also happens to make a great companion. 

Pedigree should not equal inbred mutant with health defects, unfortunately, a growing minority think that's the case

Cross breed, should not equal automatically healthy, honest, it ain't so, and can't be guaranteed

So, before you think I'm a grumpy old baggage, thought I'd post


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> The dog is here right now, it's been born, i can't change that fact. Do you think that this dog should just be destroyed now? I won't be breeding it, just owning it, i havent asked the guy to breed this particular kind of dog have i. Are you really saying i'm encouraging the guy to breed this kind of dog, i'm not someone will buy it, they may then choose to breed it, therefor carrying on the same kind of breeding tactics. I won't so at least one of his dog's line will not be multiplying


Bugga, hadn't seen your post, so, a byb breeds a litter of ten pups, one person buys one pup without the intent of ever breeding, and that doesn't ever encourage that byb?

Sorry, but I do think your views are very short sighted 

That isn't a personal criticsm of you, just perhaps a criticism that maybe you're not aware of the problem with rescue, bybs and puppy farmers.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> First question, has this person done health tests on their dogs, if not, walk away, and look for a pet dog elsewhere.
> 
> So, before you think I'm a grumpy old baggage, thought I'd post


so what should happen to this dog, should everyone walk past it?

I don't thin your a grumpy old baggage............. i'd say you're mid 30's at oldest


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> so what should happen to this dog, should everyone walk past it?
> 
> I don't thin your a grumpy old baggage............. i'd say you're mid 30's at oldest


Nah, the problem is, the old catch 22 situation, cute pup, and you've bought it with *eyes open* when in fact, there are a lot of things you don't know about the parentage. If you came to me, for example, I could tell you the health test results for both my girls for the last five generations, and, if I phoned a friend (and I've got a few, honest) I could tell you the health score for related dogs to my two. So, can you tell me, what you know about your dog, other than it's possibly a shar pei x GSD?

Right, if you'd bought a pup off me, hypothetical, because to be honest, so far I've just researched my breed, not bred anything, you'd have KC registration, an agreement on endorsments, and a contract of sale.

So, what have you got from buying your pup, not a trick question, but hopefully, something that may help people make a decision in the future.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

I haven't bought it yet. I hear what you're saying, and i've already told you that papers etc have never been a factor in me buying a dog before.

I'd really like your opinion on what you think should be the particular puppy i'm going to view's future, but i'll have to wait till tomorrow to read your reply cos i gotta go to bed


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

If you want to call me, give me a shout early afternoon and I'm pm or email my landline number for you. I'm out and about taking exciting photographs of viaducts in the morning, but would be more htan welcome to share what knowledge/experience I have with you


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Ahh viaducts, I love them, check the one out south of highgate.thanks for the number offer, but its your opinion on what you think should happen to thus pup now that interests me most


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Sat here drinking me morning cuppa and having some breakfast, well, the first breakfast, I usually need two to get going  

Ok, what do I think should be the future for this pup? I think the future for any pup, including this one, should be a loving home with people who care about him/her and look after him/her for all of their life. 

But rewind there, people who *care* about him/her. That caring, for me, starts before you buy a pup. You care about the parents of the pup, that they've been bred from because someone genuinely believes this litter is going to produce healthy happy pups that they believe have a future. Not because someone happened to have a litter of pups and sold them all once before, but because that litter of pups has *something* to offer. I put it like that to avoid the old pitfall of showing/working because I do believe there is a place for people who breed good quality pups for the pet market, and some of those are going to be cross bred. But, the same code of ethics that many pedigree breeders adhere to, should still apply, ie health tests where appropriate (and with these two breeds there should be a few), only breed from a bitch who's of a certain age, and only take *x* amount of litters. 

There is no short answer for what I think should happen to the pup you may, or may not buy. The answer is support ethical breeding, if you think this pup has been bred ethically, and you want to choose to support the breeder by giving them money for a pup, that's your choice. If you don't, look elsewhere. 

If you don't buy this pup, someone else will I'm sure; if you do buy this pup, you help (in my view) perpetuate the irresponsible breeding of unhealth tested dogs, and in this instance, from bizarre crosses, that are bred for the sake of it with no real knowledge that the pups will have a healthy future. So that success leads to yet another mating and possible litter.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

You pretty much skirted round that question there. we're never gonna agree about this. thanks for your input about raw food I'll look into it. I'll post back later to tell you how I got on. Enjoy your second brekkie


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> You pretty much skirted round that question there. we're never gonna agree about this. thanks for your input about raw food I'll look into it. I'll post back later to tell you how I got on. Enjoy your second brekkie


Did I? I thought I answered it for both *outcomes*. I could say, well done, pat on the back what a lovely new puppy. I choose to ask questions, and I ask those questions no matter what the pup's background, because I think (personally) it is important to support ethical breeders.

Part of my work (other than photographing viaducts) is helping fundraise for a number of charities. One look at the number of dogs in rescue, and your heart goes out to them. Who bred them? Because any ethical breeder, in my book, owes a duty of care to that pup throughout it's life time, so once they leave their door, they shouldn't just say right, that's their responsibility from now on, but stay in touch and ensure that pup never gets abandoned and put to sleep. It's ok thinking at the time, it'll never happen to me.

My job is safety critical, I have to ensure constantly that I'm aware of what's going around me, because we live in a culture of, 'it'll never happen to me', and become complacent. So I know very well that line of thinking.

Second breakfast is on the way, more importantly, second cup of tea


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Well thanks for giving me the benefit of your "safety critical" thinking, I happen to be quite experienced in that myself having over a decade's experience. You didn't answer it really, you just tacked more about your opinions on it. I know you feel strongly about testing, you've told me from the start, and I've told you mine. There's gonna be no end to this discussion, so I just thank you for your time


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## pearltheplank (Oct 2, 2010)

Are these the pups down south with the sire GSD X rottie?

If so, looking at the pevious pups, they appear to have very good eyes, so 1 less worry there. If you do buy, just keep an eye out for any unexplained fever/high temp which is a symptom of FSF. If not, my apologies


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> Well thanks for giving me the benefit of your "safety critical" thinking, I happen to be quite experienced in that myself having over a decade's experience. You didn't answer it really, you just tacked more about your opinions on it. I know you feel strongly about testing, you've told me from the start, and I've told you mine. There's gonna be no end to this discussion, so I just thank you for your time


I have to say, I have a lot more respect for you than a lot of people who come on here who don't necessarily hear what they want to hear, you have remained courteous
While I'm not in agreement about the lack of health tests etc of your potential new family member & do think by buying puppies from these breeders sends out the wrong message, I still wish you luck


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> Thanks for the heads up on bakers. Had another look through there. They do the wainwrights salmon and potato for puppies. Think i'll go for that.
> 
> Surely health issues are relevant with a lot of dogs. A pure high bred shar pei i aggree can suffer from alot of problems, and all the time we had gsd's the back legs were the issue. The cross bred shar pei seems to suffer less from the abundance of facial folds, and with the hopefully stockier build the back legs will be stronger. If it needs it's eyes tacked it will need them done, end of. The seller has had a previous litter and he still sees some of them now. He has told me that they are all in good health. At this time i can only take his word


The problem is, you can only take his word for a litter of pups that he's bred previously. If neither parent is health tested, you have much less of a guarantee of anything, let alone whether they've proven to be good enough to use in any breeding programme, ie temperament and conformation as well. The pups from the first litter, could still go on to develop health problems, just because they are currently healthy, doesn't mean they haven't been dealt a genetic back hander somehow, that may yet develop, although I sincerely hope they don't. What bothers me is this type of breeder, just carrying on producing pups, they may be lovely people, but why on earth breed like this? It has no purpose and is risking not just the life of a bitch, but possibly producing pups that could be prone to ill health.



sheriffjonny said:


> Well thanks for giving me the benefit of your "safety critical" thinking, I happen to be quite experienced in that myself having over a decade's experience. You didn't answer it really, you just tacked more about your opinions on it. I know you feel strongly about testing, you've told me from the start, and I've told you mine. There's gonna be no end to this discussion, so I just thank you for your time


I apologise profusely if it came across as *lectury*  I was using my job as an example of how none of us like to think anything bad will happen to us, unfortunately it can and it does, and usually to people who don't deserve it. I really hope, if you decide to go ahead with this pup, that it does have a happy and healthy life, I cannot agree with the way they have been bred, but my difference of opinion doesn't stop me wishing any pup the best life possible.

I did answer your question about the pup:

_"Ok, what do I think should be the future for this pup? I think the future for any pup, including this one, should be a loving home with people who care about him/her and look after him/her for all of their life."_

And I did say if you don't buy this pup, then most likely someone else will. My personal view is that I wish the breeder struggled to sell any of them, and ended up having to rehome them via a rescue organisation, which may well put them off from simply breeding another litter in the future. But that isn't likely to happen unfortunately.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Well saw the pup and both the parents and struggled to just come home with the dog, had to walk away without the little bitch. He seems a really friendly little chap, hopefully he's gonna be ok, vets appointment to be booked tomorrow for a check up and jabs. 

I asked the guy about the litter, he said the first litter wasa mistake. The pups turned out good and one is with his brother in law doing very well indeed, he sees this one on a daily basis. This encouraged him to have another litter, and my new puppy is the result of it. I take on all of your concerns, this dog is to be our family pet, he's not gonna be used for any breeding, so please don't think i will be carrying on in what you call bad behaviour.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> Well saw the pup and both the parents and struggled to just come home with the dog, had to walk away without the little bitch. He seems a really friendly little chap, hopefully he's gonna be ok, vets appointment to be booked tomorrow for a check up and jabs.
> 
> I asked the guy about the litter, he said the first litter wasa mistake. The pups turned out good and one is with his brother in law doing very well indeed, he sees this one on a daily basis. This encouraged him to have another litter, and my new puppy is the result of it. I take on all of your concerns, this dog is to be our family pet, he's not gonna be used for any breeding, so please don't think i will be carrying on in what you call bad behaviour.


Oh no, I hate you've got that impression of me, I really, honestly 100% didn't think that at all, my only concern as ever, is for the way dogs are bred and brought into this world.

I've said enough about this litter, you know very well my opinion, but I really do, genuinely, honestly wish your pup and you the best  and would love to hear any future updates you care to share.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

when i can get a minute with him i'll get some pics of him, can't seem to wrestle him away from the boss


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> impressive !!! First one i have heard of with 0:0 hips


Really? I know several and know of others too.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> On a side note(actually the opening question of this thread) you got any suggestions to add to the food choice? Think i'm gonna go for the wainwrights tho


Well, if it's as healthy as you think it will be it doesn't really matter - dogs are scavengers and should be happy on any food.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Would love to see some pics of your little guy and good luck at the vets tomorrow, hope it doesn't scare the lil lad.

I'd def feed raw especially as he'll be quite a big boy, can't beat it as far as i'm concerned, no additives or grains and you know exactly what's in it. All mine are raw fed and it's so easy once you get the hang of it.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Here's a quick one of our puppy, who has been named Rolo


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

second try at posting the pic


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## mstori (May 22, 2009)

sheriffjonny said:


> second try at posting the pic


he is gorgeous!

Dont know what i was expecting, but he really does look like a shar pei x gsd doesnt he! the looks of the sp with the colouring of the gsd

Hope all goes well with him  how is he settling in?


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## rach1980 (May 1, 2008)

aww gorgeous pup


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## selenagemez (Jun 18, 2011)

gorgeous puppy


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

He's really found his legs today, took him into the garden this morning, he loved having a bounce around. He cried last night, but he hadn't destroyed the area long may that continue. Here's one of him exploring this morning


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

If you want a raw feeding chart, just give me an email, both of mine have been raw fed since pups, and they love it. The chart has approx weights for Labs, although you may need to increase it looking at his size   

It makes sense to me to try raw feeding, given the apparent problems with shar peis, and GSD's seem to be prone to having tummy problems and intollerances. You can buy raw pre-packed, ready to feed, or you can do your own. I've done my own since I started and don't add fillers. The only thing I've changed is the addition of green tripe, since I found a good supplier. 

I don't know if you've heard of the 5 min rule? It's a phrase coined by someone who is pretty much an expert in dog health, well, in dogs full stop. It's basically a rough guideline to restrict pups to 5 mins forced exercise per day, ie on lead where they have no option but to follow you. Play exercise is fine, the guide is there to try and stop inexperienced owners dragging a developing pup round the streets. I know you've had dogs before, but thought it worth mentioning, as things do change and new theories come in. If a dog has the propensity to develop any hip problems, then over exercise, will perhaps exacerbate the problem. The other contributory factor would be poor diet, but you've got that one sorted  

Lovely photo btw, he is a very cute pup.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Well the boss has just left to visit the town and get the essentials. My plan is to go raw, but i don't have the freezer space at the moment, so i'll be searching ebay for one, until then gonna go with the wainwrights, supplemented with meaty treats. 

The vets opens up 9 so we will tyr and get an appointment asap for him, he won't be getting walkies outside on the streets until he's had his jabs


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Check Gumtree for freezers aswell, I found quite a few at really cheap prices on there when I was looking


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

You can (once his first jab has taken and he's settled after a couple of days) still take him out and about to get used to all the sights and sounds. It's a long wait until after the second vaccination, so as long as you only take him places where other dogs don't toilet, and aren't frequently walked, you can take him with you. And to be honest, it's better to get them used to all the things we take for granted, like prams, brollies (plenty of those around atm), wheel chairs, large scary grannies with hairy moustaches, that sort of thing that scared me as a kid 

A friend of mine who used to puppy walk for the GDBA used to take her pups down to the local bus stop and sit on the bench with them, allowing them to just get used to everything and also to get used to being fussed by all and sundry. He can also mix with vaccinated dogs, and learn dog social skills. My two have done it in the past for a few pups, although I'm a bit far away from you, they've done puppy socialisation duties for quite a few pups now.

Shout if you want that menu, my email is [email protected] - I'm all over the place today with my other work, but will be on here at various times during the day


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks Joanne i'll get back to you for that chart


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

I didn't know what to expect from such a cross, but its actually quite a nice cross. It should mean that this cross doesn't have as much excessive folds as a pure shar-pei so should help on that front.  Good luck with the pup.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

That's what i'm thinking. I did check his dad first tho, His dad had grown into his skin well, hadn't needed to have his eyes tacked either. Hopefully that will bode well for Rolo


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Oh wow, Rolo is sooo cute and just a little wrinkly bless him. Is that why you called him Rolo because of his rolls? 

He sure is a smasher and you must post pics as he grows as i'd like to see what he turns out like. Welcome to the forum Rolo.


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

Mrs called him Rolo cos of his colouring i think, he looks like a chocolate caramel. There'l be plenty of pics as he's quite the little supermodel. There's a couple more pics on my profile


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## MizzPooch (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks for posting pics! I must say he looks lovely! We don't get many Shar-pei's to the pound up this way - I'm sure as heck not likely to come across a Shar-pei x GSD so its great to see one in a pic! Hope you have fun and happy times together.


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## chizz5056 (Jan 10, 2012)

sheriffjonny - I think we have a pup from the same litter as you as they look very similar.... born April 2011 in Hastings?? She's very healthy and active and we feed her Hill's Science Plan from pets at home...


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## LisaZonda (Oct 14, 2011)

awww he is just adorable!!...what a little stunner 

Congratulations and good luck with everything!


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## sheriffjonny (Jun 23, 2011)

chizz5056 said:


> sheriffjonny - I think we have a pup from the same litter as you as they look very similar.... born April 2011 in Hastings?? She's very healthy and active and we feed her Hill's Science Plan from pets at home...


Yes must be the same litter. Did you get the last little girl? We nearly turned around and went back and got her. When we took Rolo they both put their paws round each other. Rolo looks a bit bigger than your dog, he was the biggest of the litter. He's full of energy, has one of the best nature's i've ever witnessed on a dog. I'm not saying he isn't naughty, but he is very sweet. Also when we're out with him we can't go 10 yards without getting stopped by people, he surely is the best looking dog on the planet


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## chizz5056 (Jan 10, 2012)

sheriffjonny said:


> Yes must be the same litter. Did you get the last little girl? We nearly turned around and went back and got her. When we took Rolo they both put their paws round each other. Rolo looks a bit bigger than your dog, he was the biggest of the litter. He's full of energy, has one of the best nature's i've ever witnessed on a dog. I'm not saying he isn't naughty, but he is very sweet. Also when we're out with him we can't go 10 yards without getting stopped by people, he surely is the best looking dog on the planet


Been months and I'm only just replying now!! We had the pick of the puppies as we were the first ones to see the litter. Took one of the girls as we thought she stood out as her coat was a slightly different colour but it grew out anyway.

I remember Rolo as he was much bigger than the others. How's he getting on now? Our one, Kenzie, is a very good girl - loves chasing wildlife in the park, jumping into our bed and is very good around our baby child.


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