# baby dies after dog attack



## marion..d

so so sad.... 
Baby dies after dog attack - Yahoo! News UK


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## JANICE199

*God what can one say! How very sad,i can't imagin what those poor parents are going through..:cryin:*


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## Sypher

That is terrible news. Poor family.


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## Chell82xx

How very sad, i feel for the poor family.

Unfortunately its the poor SBT who are going to be bare the brunt of this again!!


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## *Princess*

poor parents...surely if the dogs mullered the baby they could see the injuries and wouldnt have to do a post -mortom?


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## Sophiex

*Princess* said:


> poor parents...surely if the dogs mullered the baby they could see the injuries and wouldnt have to do a post -mortom?


I think (but don't quote me on this!) that if a person doesn't die in a hospital, they have to do a post-mortem.

Poor little boy.


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## Katie&Cody

"Although the exact circumstances of the baby's death are yet to be established, we would like to reiterate the advice given to dog owners that dogs should never be left unsupervised with young children at any time."

I feel sorry for the parents but also for the dogs, we all know sometimes children can be pinchy and pully with dogs so they should never have been left alone...  xx


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## Tabbytails

terribly sad 

Ive never met a Staffie who was in any well ill natured - maybe Ive just been very lucky but have known several who were all mushy soft, just shows, I know we dont know the fully story but is so very sad.


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## scosha37

Yes very very sad indeed.....


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## Guest

Katie&Cody said:


> "Although the exact circumstances of the baby's death are yet to be established, we would like to reiterate the advice given to dog owners that dogs should never be left unsupervised with young children at any time."
> 
> I feel sorry for the parents but also for the dogs, we all know sometimes children can be pinchy and pully with dogs so they should never have been left alone...  xx


The child was 3 1/2 months old...don't think it could have been pinchy or pully at that age.


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## hobo99

What an awful tragedy, i feel very sad for the family, also for the dogs ,how did they have the chance to harm the poor baby.:sad:


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## Pets Paws

A crying baby can sometimes sound like a rabbit in distress, the dogs would have acted on instict, how many times does this have to happen before the message gets through to new parents with dogs??
Not the dogs fault.
I feel sorry for the family that has to deal with this for the rest of there lives.


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## Guest

Pets Paws said:


> A crying baby can sometimes sound like a rabbit in distress, the dogs would have acted on instict, how many times does this have to happen before the message gets through to new parents with dogs??
> Not the dogs fault.
> I feel sorry for the family that has to deal with this for the rest of there lives.


I cannot believe I am hearing this??? Not the dogs fault that it savaged and killed a tiny baby? Ridiculous.


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## Sypher

FluffyCoonz said:


> I cannot believe I am hearing this??? Not the dogs fault that it savaged and killed a tiny baby? Ridiculous.


I don't think it's the dogs fault. When we take in an animal, we take full responsibility for it. That responsibility includes not leaving children and dogs unattended.


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## jeanie

I think i heard on news the baby was at the grandma house being looked after while parents where on a night out, was the other dog a jack russel i know there were two dogs, im just wondering how such small dogs could get into a cot


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## Sypher

jeanie said:


> I think i heard on news the baby was at the grandma house being looked after while parents where on a night out, was the other dog a jack russel i know there were two dogs,


Yes there were two dogs.

The BBC coverage can be found here.


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## jeanie

Thanks, i agree with what you said.


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## DKDREAM

Its so sad, I feel for the familey and also the dogs in some ways. we dont know what has gone on or anything, the tamest of animals can flip at anytime really and we wont know why its very sad. A friend had a lab and he was so soft and loving but one day he just turned snappy and ended up going to a vets and it was found he had a bleed on his brain, so it wasnt the dogs fault he was put to sleep to save anyone being bitten


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## Katie&Cody

FluffyCoonz said:


> The child was 3 1/2 months old...don't think it could have been pinchy or pully at that age.


I was talking in general terms and a high majority of cases...
I am not saying it was the babies fault!!!!
I am allowed my opinion, and it was not meant nastily!!


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## finoni9

The grandma was in the room at the time it happened!


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## noushka05

thats so sad, but why ever do people leave babies unsupervised with dogs!!!


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## Katie&Cody

FluffyCoonz said:


> I cannot believe I am hearing this??? Not the dogs fault that it savaged and killed a tiny baby? Ridiculous.


I dont no how you can judge the dogs, what they did were wrong but as others have said you don't know what started the attack?!
Someone on this forum Pm'd me just a moment ago to basically say am i stupid for posting my original thread.. i have had dogs all my life and know that even the best of dogs can flip...but there is usually a reason??!!
If it was the grandmothers dogs, maybe they are not used to the screaming and crying of a 3 1/2 month old baby and reacted, maybe the grandmother should have kept them in the kitchen or a bedroom for the time the baby was there...maybes are maybe just are what if's are...whats done is done and it is very very sad!!


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

Tbh who would leave a 3 1/2 month old babie , with 2 dogs..... 

not the dogs fault atall it must have been a provoked attack...

xx

(my opinion, dnt red blob me)


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## Katie&Cody

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> Tbh who would leave a 3 1/2 month old babie , with 2 dogs.....
> 
> not the dogs fault atall it must have been a provoked attack...
> 
> xx
> 
> (my opinion, dnt red blob me)


I agree...give it time you will probably get a PM soon of the member that PM'd me to say you are wrong lol!!
The way i look at it hun, is you are allowed your opinion and no one is saying we are not sorry for the family and of course the poor little baby who did not deserve to be killed in such a nasty fashion...but i have had dogs all my life and dont believe unless not good natures that they just flip...!! :


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## finoni9

As said above the news said the GRANDMA WAS IN THE ROOM WITH THE DOGS AND BABY!


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

finoni9 said:


> As said above the news said the GRANDMA WAS IN THE ROOM WITH THE DOGS AND BABY!


yh but if you click on the other versions it says she wasnt!!

zz


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## Katie&Cody

finoni9 said:


> As said above the news said the GRANDMA WAS IN THE ROOM WITH THE DOGS AND BABY!


I agreed on the second part of hamsters comment.
I was aware the grandma was in the room.
It is very very sad.
I wonder if the dogs were used to children, maybe it was jelousy?


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## Katie&Cody

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> yh but if you click on the other versions it says she wasnt!!
> 
> zz


At the end of the days it the news it varies from piece to piece.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

i really do feel for the family, it must be heart breaking, but the grandma , must be alot more careful, with little babies and dogs together....
xx


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## DKDREAM

I read the dogs have been put to sleep. I agree it must be deverating for the familey but more so for the grandmother how will she ever forgive herself. As for the dogs we dont know why the did it, (this is a for instance case) if the dogs where rescued who is to say any of them whernt used in fighting and one word sends them into attack mode.


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## Katie&Cody

That is sooo sad!!!
3 lives ruined! and the family left to pick up the pieces!
I imagine they would have been the grandma's dogs and possibly not used to children? If she was old she may not have been able to control them?
So very very sad!


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

DKDREAM said:


> I read the dogs have been put to sleep. I agree it must be deverating for the familey but more so for the grandmother how will she ever forgive herself. As for the dogs we dont know why the did it, (this is a for instance case) if the dogs where rescued who is to say any of them whernt used in fighting and one word sends them into attack mode.


if they were used for fighting they would surely be P2S ..... anyway they would know @ the rescue centre , as they would have fighting wounds , on their head, front and legs...

I get were your coming from though....
xx


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## DKDREAM

Its ver very sad, i just hope this hasnt made people dislike Staffies or JRTs even more then already


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## Katie&Cody

DKDREAM said:


> Its ver very sad, i just hope this hasnt made people dislike Staffies or JRTs even more then already


This is the problem.
It will do, but thats life...unfortunetly people have set opinions on breeds rather than the individual dogs, and it is very sad.


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## Guest

That is so sad and truly awful.


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## suzy93074

Very sad


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## Angel44

Absolutely devasting. As someone else pointed out that a crying baby, especially such a young baby, can sound like a distressed rabbit/animal. When I worked for a vet many years ago one of our clients brought in her little terrier that had been ripped to pieces. She had apparently gotten her head stuck in the fence and started squealing. Straight away the other dogs started attacking her, even though they were all gentle dogs who had never fought or picked on her before. The noise seems to trigger a dogs natural hunting response. 

I cannot even begin to imagine how the poor family is feeling. I can't even try to imagine as it's just too devastating to even go there. My heart goes out to all concerned, including the dogs. At the end of the day they were probably much loved family pets who reacted in such a tragic way.


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## Guest

poor bubby, rip little one


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## Natik

thats so horrible...im so sorry for the family


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## Vixxen

my opiion on this is that;

1. no parent should leave a 3 month old baby (or any young child) with dogs unsupervised, and you'd think that with all the stories of dog attacks on the news over recent years that people would have more sense anyway.

2. if the grandmother *was* in the room then why was she not able to control her 2 pet dogs? most dog owners are capable of knowing and controlling their animals...apart from very extreme cases (ive had a neurotic rottie before)


the dogs arent to blame im afraid.


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## Guest

*Princess* said:


> poor parents...surely if the dogs mullered the baby they could see the injuries and wouldnt have to do a post -mortom?


they would have to do a pm it the child had not recieved medical tratment in the last 21 days. After all - tragic as this is - remember baby p - now had he have died that family could quite easily have given him to the dogs to rip to bits then claim that the dogs had killed him.
Not being mean
But the cause of death has to be established - and also which wound actually were the fatal one !
DT


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## Vixxen

FluffyCoonz said:


> I cannot believe I am hearing this??? Not the dogs fault that it savaged and killed a tiny baby? Ridiculous.


i dont see how it is ridiculous personally....as pointed out...babies noises can trigger the hunter in a dog, they can also be jealous of new babies and children over attention...people know this, dogs can get over excited and cause injury, and they still leave them unsupervised with dogs....now thats not the dogs fault is it? its human error....a big error.


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## Katie&Cody

Vixxen said:


> i dont see how it is ridiculous personally....as pointed out...babies noises can trigger the hunter in a dog, they can also be jealous of new babies and children over attention...people know this, dogs can get over excited and cause injury, and they still leave them unsupervised with dogs....now thats not the dogs fault is it? its human error....a big error.


I am under the belief that fluffy coonz has only got cats?
Maybe she isnt aware of this!!
Us dog lovers are, it such a shame they were p2s - and before anyone jumps it was terrible that the baby was killed... only 3 1/2 months old id be devestated...but i do not, and never will believe the dogs just attack unless they are trained or have a bad history!


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## ad_1980

This whole story saddens me on so many levels.

Its weird because you really don't know WHO to blame in this situation because really the whole family have lost out - they lost a baby and they lost 2 dogs.

The dogs probably attacked because of 2 reasons a) jealous of the attention the baby was getting and b) they've never been around kids.

If the case is they were never around children let alone babies - then the grandparents or really the parents should never have left their child in a house with dogs who aren't used to kids.

I hope to God my dog never attacks a baby or a child for that matter. Luckily we brought up our dog around children. The only thing he's ever done is growl at one member of the family because he really doesn't like her, why i do not know but he has never ever bitten anyone in his whole life. Neither did my baby who i hope is now happy in Rainbow Bridge.

Poor baby. Poor family.


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## Guest

I don't think the blame can be laid at anyones feet in all honesty, Carelessness could be said to be the cause, as could ignorance. Does anyone really think that this grandmother could have possibly believed her dogs to have been capable to do such a thing? I think not! What I do think is possible though is that these dogs were not used to being around this baby. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread maybe the baby was crying and the dogs thought that it were an injured animal - pack mode took over and the dogs attacked - just as they would have done in the wild. This does not mean that the dogs were either abused in the past or used to fighting - it was more likely to be 'prey' instinct.
A tragic accident - and a very harsh reminder to every dog owner never to leave a child unattened with any dog - not matter how much they trust the dog - it only takes a second to trigger something like this.
No doubt we'll hear many versions of events over the next few days. The only person who really knows what happened is the owner of the dogs.
DT


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## DKDREAM

DoubleTrouble said:


> I don't think the blame can be laid at anyones feet in all honesty,* Carelessness could be said to be the cause, as could ignorance.* Does anyone really think that this grandmother could have possibly believed her dogs to have been capable to do such a thing?* I think not!** What I do think is possible though is that these dogs were not used to being around this baby.* As someone mentioned earlier in this thread maybe the baby was crying and the dogs thought that it were an injured animal - pack mode took over and the dogs attacked - just as they would have done in the wild.* This does not mean that the dogs were either abused in the past or used to fighting - it was more likely to be 'prey' instinct.A tragic accident - and a very harsh reminder to every dog owner never to leave a child unattened with any dog - not matter how much they trust the dog - it only takes a second to trigger something like this.No doubt we'll hear many versions of events over the next few days.* The only person who really knows what happened is the owner of the dogs.DT


Its a tragic loss i dont think we will ever know the reasons why.


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## jackiex_x

that's just down the road from me.

poor dogs. and of course my heart goes out to the child.

i know i'm not a parent, but I don't think i'd have left my kid alone with a dog (or any animal for that matter) even my rabbit has hit out at me in the past and drawn blood.


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## Guest

Katie&Cody said:


> I am under the belief that fluffy coonz has only got cats?
> Maybe she isnt aware of this!!
> Us dog lovers are, it such a shame they were p2s - and before anyone jumps it was terrible that the baby was killed... only 3 1/2 months old id be devestated...but i do not, and never will believe the dogs just attack unless they are trained or have a bad history!


First of all, I grew up with dogs so I am well aware of their nature. We also had a dachschund a couple of years ago and the day he went for my daughter was the day we rehomed him. No dog is worth the risk to human life.

Unfortunately, dogs, the same as people, have bad traits as well as good. I am in no way implying that the entire breed is bad I am just saying that this particular dog made the decision to attack with devestating consequences.

I am sure that if this tragedy involved someone in your little circle of friends then you wouldn't be quite so blase about the whole thing would you?

And before anyone decides to start PMing me, my next move after this is to PM Mark to ask him to remove my subscription to this forum. This entire forum has moved completely away from what it used to be and is no longer about the animals at all - it is more of a social networking site for people to make themselves feel popular.


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## Katie&Cody

FluffyCoonz said:


> First of all, I grew up with dogs so I am well aware of their nature. We also had a dachschund a couple of years ago and the day he went for my daughter was the day we rehomed him. No dog is worth the risk to human life.
> 
> Unfortunately, dogs, the same as people, have bad traits as well as good. I am in no way implying that the entire breed is bad I am just saying that this particular dog made the decision to attack with devestating consequences.
> 
> I am sure that if this tragedy involved someone in your little circle of friends then you wouldn't be quite so blase about the whole thing would you?
> 
> And before anyone decides to start PMing me, my next move after this is to PM Mark to ask him to remove my subscription to this forum. This entire forum has moved completely away from what it used to be and is no longer about the animals at all - it is more of a social networking site for people to make themselves feel popular.


I havent PM'd you?!?!
I am not blase, and it is a shame you are leaving because of ppls opinions, i am not the only one that thinks this...look at the new thread on another child attacked.
I had many PM's yesterday saying i was in the wrong, i dont personally think i was, i voiced my opinion.
Sorry if i have offended, it was not intentianal...


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## Guest

FluffyCoonz said:


> First of all, I grew up with dogs so I am well aware of their nature. We also had a dachschund a couple of years ago and the day he went for my daughter was the day we rehomed him. No dog is worth the risk to human life.
> 
> Unfortunately, dogs, the same as people, have bad traits as well as good. I am in no way implying that the entire breed is bad I am just saying that this particular dog made the decision to attack with devestating consequences.
> 
> I am sure that if this tragedy involved someone in your little circle of friends then you wouldn't be quite so blase about the whole thing would you?
> 
> And before anyone decides to start PMing me, my next move after this is to PM Mark to ask him to remove my subscription to this forum. This entire forum has moved completely away from what it used to be and is no longer about the animals at all - it is more of a social networking site for people to make themselves feel popular.


Sorry to go off topic - but I think if you or anyone else are the recipients of nasty emails then you should copy the post on the forum and put the sender on ignore.

There will always be disagreements on the forum, I have been the centre of many, but that is not reason to leave the forum. If we put our opinions forward we have to expect people will disagree with us, thats life!

I have made my views clear on this - I think, Stupidity and ignorance played a major part in this terrible tragedy. To which I am sticking - if anyone disagrees with me then sobeit.

Please be friends and this is coming from the mother of all arguers!
DT


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## Fleur

DoubleTrouble said:


> I don't think the blame can be laid at anyones feet in all honesty, Carelessness could be said to be the cause, as could ignorance. Does anyone really think that this grandmother could have possibly believed her dogs to have been capable to do such a thing? I think not! What I do think is possible though is that these dogs were not used to being around this baby. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread maybe the baby was crying and the dogs thought that it were an injured animal - pack mode took over and the dogs attacked - just as they would have done in the wild. This does not mean that the dogs were either abused in the past or used to fighting - it was more likely to be 'prey' instinct.
> A tragic accident - and a very harsh reminder to every dog owner never to leave a child unattened with any dog - not matter how much they trust the dog - it only takes a second to trigger something like this.
> No doubt we'll hear many versions of events over the next few days. The only person who really knows what happened is the owner of the dogs.
> DT


It is such a terrible tragedy, as DT says we will never know the full story. Hindsight is a wonder ful thing.
All I can say is my heart goes out to this family I can't imagine the grandmother and daughters relationship will ever recover.

RIP little baby.

I've only owned dogs for 2 years, they are never unsupervised with anyone under the age of 16 with the exeption of my son who is 14. 
When my friends baby comes over unless there are 2 adults the dogs are put in another room for safety. My dogs have never growled at another person or dog but I still wouldn't trust them/the child.


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## Izzie999

Katie&Cody said:


> "Although the exact circumstances of the baby's death are yet to be established, we would like to reiterate the advice given to dog owners that dogs should never be left unsupervised with young children at any time."
> 
> I feel sorry for the parents but also for the dogs, we all know sometimes children can be pinchy and pully with dogs so they should never have been left alone...  xx


Im sorry butI can't have any pity for the dogs, they have denied two parents the joy of watching their baby grow up. I know there are big animal lovers on here but people please get your priorities right, these dogs murdered this child and deserved to be pts. Yes the grandmother should have not left them on their own with the baby and I hope she lives with that pain for the rest of her days AND gets punished by the law too. I don't care how people see me after this post, a childs life far outweighs that of a family pet!!!!

Izzie


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## Guest

Izzie999 said:


> Im sorry butI can't have any pity for the dogs, they have denied two parents the joy of watching their baby grow up. I know there are big animal lovers on here but people please get your priorities right, these dogs murdered this child and deserved to be pts. Yes the grandmother should have not left them on their own with the baby and I hope she lives with that pain for the rest of her days AND gets punished by the law too. I don't care how people see me after this post, a childs life far outweighs that of a family pet!!!!
> 
> Izzie


Everyone is entitled to their opinions - you as much as anyone else - but please don't knock others for theirs - then others won't knock you for yours.
thank you
DT


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## Izzie999

Yes of course they are, but I just can't understand why people have sympathy for the dogs thats all. I feel so sad for that baby and what he must have gone through. I appreciate how you dog owners feel about your pets particularly those with the same breeds. I would hate to think of any members on here going through such heart break, This is such an emotive subject isn't it?

Izzie


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## DKDREAM

FluffyCoonz said:


> First of all, I grew up with dogs so I am well aware of their nature. We also had a dachschund a couple of years ago and the day he went for my daughter was the day we rehomed him. No dog is worth the risk to human life.
> 
> Unfortunately, dogs, the same as people, have bad traits as well as good. I am in no way implying that the entire breed is bad I am just saying that this particular dog made the decision to attack with devestating consequences.
> 
> I am sure that if this tragedy involved someone in your little circle of friends then you wouldn't be quite so blase about the whole thing would you?
> 
> And before anyone decides to start PMing me, my next move after this is to PM Mark to ask him to remove my subscription to this forum. This entire forum has moved completely away from what it used to be and is no longer about the animals at all - it is more of a social networking site for people to make themselves feel popular.


im so sorry you feel that way i hope you stay. I agree with your points too its not worth taking a risk I would rehome blaze if he ever went for anyone as i have nephews and neices. If he attacked really bad then he would be put to sleep its just my opinion


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

i still say that its not the dogs fault

a dog wouldnt just suddenly think 'hmm iknow i'll kill this baby'

it must have been provoked.

& izzie 

imangine if it was your grandma 
would you want her to 'live with that pain for the rest of her days AND gets punished by the law too'

i know this is an open forum & were all entitled to our own opinion but dont you think that was a bit harsh...the poor woman will HAVE to live with that for the rest of her life.... but punishment from the law is abit OTT. 

What would you have done if you werre the grandma , and had to witness your grandson being killed by the dogs?? .........think about that.


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## Katie&Cody

Izzie999 said:


> Im sorry butI can't have any pity for the dogs, they have denied two parents the joy of watching their baby grow up. I know there are big animal lovers on here but people please get your priorities right, these dogs murdered this child and deserved to be pts. Yes the grandmother should have not left them on their own with the baby and I hope she lives with that pain for the rest of her days AND gets punished by the law too. I don't care how people see me after this post, a childs life far outweighs that of a family pet!!!!
> 
> Izzie


You are entitled to your opinion as i am mine.
I dont think it is fair to lay the blame with the dogs...dogs do not just attack, and if they had a history of doing so they should not have been allowed in the same room. IMO the family will leave with this pain forever and it is very sad but i think it is unfair to soley blame dogs that may not be used to having babys around...they may have been jelous etc... we will never know.!?!
I have a stafffie and a jack russel x and i trust them with my life !! but i would still not leave them unattended or put them in a situation which would stress them out and cause them to attack, it is not fair.


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## Katie&Cody

Izzie999 said:


> Im sorry butI can't have any pity for the dogs, they have denied two parents the joy of watching their baby grow up. I know there are big animal lovers on here but people please get your priorities right, these dogs murdered this child and deserved to be pts. Yes the grandmother should have not left them on their own with the baby and I hope she lives with that pain for the rest of her days AND gets punished by the law too. I don't care how people see me after this post, a childs life far outweighs that of a family pet!!!!
> 
> Izzie





u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> i still say that its not the dogs fault
> 
> a dog wouldnt just suddenly think 'hmm iknow i'll kill this baby'
> 
> it must have been provoked.
> 
> & izzie
> 
> imangine if it was your grandma
> would you want her to 'live with that pain for the rest of her days AND gets punished by the law too'
> 
> i know this is an open forum & were all entitled to our own opinion but dont you think that was a bit harsh...the poor woman will HAVE to live with that for the rest of her life.... but punishment from the law is abit OTT.
> 
> What would you have done if you werre the grandma , and had to witness your grandson being killed by the dogs?? .........think about that.


I dont think she should be punished, but i hope she accepts she should never have let the dogs in the same room if they were not used to children...


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## Izzie999

I can't say what I would have done to stop those dogs,I would probably get banned, needless to say I would have done WHATEVER necessary to stop those dogs even if it meant I suffered an attack myself.

I don't feel I was harsh, my priority is children and family. I love my pets very much but they would never take preference over my kids at all. 

Fluffycoonz,Im really sorry you are leaving but I can totally get where you are coming from! I won't be commenting on this thread again because Im getting so angry about it all.

Izzie


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

Izzie999 said:


> I can't say what I would have done to stop those dogs,I would probably get banned, needless to say I would have done WHATEVER necessary to stop those dogs even if it meant I suffered an attack myself.
> 
> I don't feel I was harsh, my priority is children and family. I love my pets very much but they would never take preference over my kids at all.
> 
> Fluffycoonz,Im really sorry you are leaving but I can totally get where you are coming from! I won't be commenting on this thread again because Im getting so angry about it all.
> 
> Izzie


Why are you getting angry ??? this is an open discussion!!

if your priority is children & family would yuo press charges if it was your grandmother in this situation??

x


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## Tigerneko

This is a terribly sad story, but I do agree with other members who say that there must have been some sort of provocation of the dogs.

In a way, i'm kind of glad it was a JRT that was involved in the attack, rather than the standard mastiff/rottie thing. It just goes to show that ANY dog, no matter what it's size or reputation is able to kill, and not just big dogs. Bigger dogs have such a bad reptuation, people just assume that because they're big, they're vicious, and that all small dogs are family-friendly, happy chappies, but this goes to show that even the 'perfect' small family dog is capable of causing such damage. 

However, I also worry that this could send people mad, tarring all dogs with the same brush and the 'ban everything' brigade getting involved, wanting to ban terriers  I hope it doesn't come to that, like the saying goes - punish the deed, not the breed.


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## Guest

Izzie999 said:


> I can't say what I would have done to stop those dogs,I would probably get banned, needless to say I would have done WHATEVER necessary to stop those dogs even if it meant I suffered an attack myself.
> 
> I don't feel I was harsh, my priority is children and family. I love my pets very much but they would never take preference over my kids at all.
> 
> Fluffycoonz,Im really sorry you are leaving but I can totally get where you are coming from! I won't be commenting on this thread again because Im getting so angry about it all.
> 
> Izzie


Directing your anger at forum members just because they do not agree with you will not rectify the situation, assuming that is what you meant by saying that you would not post anymore. I have remained pretty much on the fence throughout this debate, and have every intention of remaining there.
And I would agree with you on one thing - I two would have done anything within my power to stop the attack, which does make me wonder, where in the house the grandmother was when the attack took place. 
regards
dt


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

i would also of tried everthing to stop the attack....
xx


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## Izzie999

Hi,

Im not by nature an angry person. I am trying to cool down. I wonder how I would react in that situation, if I was in the room I surely would have killed the dogs to get them away from that baby, Im sure you would do the same, she can't have been in that room surely!!

Izzie


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

i woulnt have killed em :crying::crying::blush2:


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## Guest

Izzie999 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Im not by nature an angry person. I am trying to cool down. I wonder how I would react in that situation, if I was in the room I surely would have killed the dogs to get them away from that baby, Im sure you would do the same, she can't have been in that room surely!!
> 
> Izzie


That is how I imagine it to be - but until more details are released we sharn't know, there could have been other reasons why she could not have helped, she may have been elderly, infirm, disabled - who knows??? I'm reserving judgement until I have heard the full story.
But - if it does turn out that she left those dogs alone with that baby, lets say had she taken a bath, gone to the toilet etc, then that is downright stupidity!
Our penal system does not punish your for being stupid - but I guess losing a grandchild in punishment in itself.


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## Izzie999

You wouldn't do whatever it took to stop that baby from dying?? I say this in a totally non angry tone, the problem with message boards is you can't hear the tone of my voice while Im writing this. Im a very calm and rational person, but I can tell you that I would do anything and I mean anything to stop an attack on a child even at the cost of an attack on me. I honestly don't beleive she was in the room at the time because her love for that child would mean she would do anything to stop that child being killed!

Izzie


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## dipdog

Izzie999 said:


> Hi,
> 
> if I was in the room I surely would have killed the dogs to get them away from that baby, Im sure you would do the same, she can't have been in that room surely!!
> 
> Izzie


im with u hun, i love my pets but my children r more important. she couldnt have been in the room either that or she couldnt care less?


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## Guest

Izzie999 said:


> You wouldn't do whatever it took to stop that baby from dying?? I say this in a totally non angry tone, the problem with message boards is you can't hear the tone of my voice while Im writing this. Im a very calm and rational person, but I can tell you that I would do anything and I mean anything to stop an attack on a child even at the cost of an attack on me. I honestly don't beleive she was in the room at the time because her love for that child would mean she would do anything to stop that child being killed!
> 
> Izzie


Sorry I am totally lost now - was this question aimed at me ?- because I said in an earlier post that I would have fought the dogs - the last post I made was suggesting that the grandmother may have been disabled, infirm OR out of the room - which I think is the most likely


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## dipdog

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> i woulnt have killed em :crying::crying::blush2:


take it you dont have kids then?


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## Guest

dipdog said:


> take it you dont have kids then?


I think this poster is very young yet does act very grown up for her age - maybe a kinder tone from you would be preferable


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

dipdog said:


> take it you dont have kids then?


No i dont im only 14.


DoubleTrouble said:


> I think this poster is very young yet does act very grown up for her age - maybe a kinder tone from you would be preferable


Thankyou.
xx


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## Chell82xx

dipdog said:


> take it you dont have kids then?


i've been trying not to comment on this thread as i really don't want to get involved in an argument.... but i do really have to agree with the above (nothing bad ment to hampster there i just ment that its hard to picute the scene if you dont have kids). I love my dogs dearly and would give my life for them if i had to but if they ever turned on one of my baby nephews i would do ANYTHING i had to to get them off. I know we do not know fully the situation where the grand mother is concerned but i like to believe that i would never allow myself to be in this situation.

I really don't want to offend anyone as this is purely my opinion!


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## dipdog

was being nice, was saying if dont have children then dont realise the bond of protecting them.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

Chell82xx said:


> i've been trying not to comment on this thread as i really don't want to get involved in an argument.... but i do really have to agree with the above (nothing bad ment to hampster there i just ment that its hard to picute the scene if you dont have kids). I love my dogs dearly and would give my life for them if i had to but if they ever turned on one of my baby nephews i would do ANYTHING i had to to get them off. I know we do not know fully the situation where the grand mother is concerned but i like to believe that i would never allow myself to be in this situation.
> 
> I really don't want to offend anyone as this is purely my opinion!


iam a young carer i look after 2 toddlers & a young child. i still would not kill my dogs, proberly badly injure them, but i just couldnt kill them


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## Chell82xx

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> iam a young carer i look after 2 toddlers & a young child. i still would not kill my dogs, proberly badly injure them, but i just couldnt kill them


i really didn't mean it at ya huni honest i didn't realise how it sounded until i posted. I wouldn't set out to injure them but would never be able to live with myself if i didn't say that i done everything i could to save the babys life!

Maybe the gran did, we dont know yet!


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

Chell82xx said:


> i really didn't mean it at ya huni honest i didn't realise how it sounded until i posted. I wouldn't set out to injure them but would never be able to live with myself if i didn't say that i done everything i could to save the babys life!
> 
> Maybe the gran did, we dont know yet!


You didnt sound bad, 

you didnt offend me im not easily offended anyway  
i totally understand were your coming from xx


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## Izzie999

DoubleTrouble said:


> Sorry I am totally lost now - was this question aimed at me ?- because I said in an earlier post that I would have fought the dogs - the last post I made was suggesting that the grandmother may have been disabled, infirm OR out of the room - which I think is the most likely


No sorry DT it wasn't it was aimed at youlooklikeahamster. Apologies for any misunderstanding. Its possible that the Grandmother is disabled in some way to stop her intervening,I guess in the days to come the facts will come out. I also wonder if charges will be pressed at a later date as in the case of that five year old child who died in similar circumstances a year or so back.

Izzie

Im not commenting on this anymore,I didnt set out to offend anyone, my opinions on this are very strong, each to their own as you said earlier.


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## Chell82xx

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> You didnt sound bad,
> 
> you didnt offend me im not easily offended anyway
> i totally understand were your coming from xx


:thumbup: excellent coz as DT said you are alot older than your years and have alot of advise for lots of ppl on here! xx


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## Terrier Fan

I feel so sorry for the parents, but believe that the grandmother should not be punished, she will have to live with what has happened and that is punishment enough.

So does that mean that those of you with children have never left your kids and pets in a room unattended, eithen if was just to pop to the loo or to go make a cuppa.


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## Guest

Don't think you did offend anyone - think we are all in unison - had any off us been in the room at the time of the attack we would have fought to have saved the child. I have two big dogs, and I genuinely believe I could have fought then off had I been in this situation.
we'll just have to wait and see - I'm guessing ithe grandmother if not disabled then she would have been out of the room - maybe in the bathroom - only guessing - we'll have to wait and see.


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## dipdog

DoubleTrouble said:


> Don't think you did offend anyone - think we are all in unison - had any off us been in the room at the time of the attack we would have fought to have saved the child. I have two big dogs, and I genuinely believe I could have fought then off had I been in this situation.
> we'll just have to wait and see - I'm guessing ithe grandmother if not disabled then she would have been out of the room - maybe in the bathroom - only guessing - we'll have to wait and see.


this is all i was saying i didnt mean to affend, was just stating my opinion that if it came to it i would kill the dogs to get them of the child, sorry if i did affend.


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## Kathryn1

Ok well i have missed all of this thread but i will tell you my opinion of what i read in the paper today. 

I love all animals but there has to be a reason why those dogs attacked that baby. 

A baby of that age cannot pull on an animals tail or ears etc. So yes the baby might of been crying which is a very good point. 

Also the grandma has only had that staff 18 months!! Did she know what it was really like? Where did she get it from?? And in her statement she got it as a guard dog!!! 

You do not leave a dog that is being used as a guard dog with a baby and leave the room or if she was in the room she should of been able to stop the dog. 

It was not the dog's fault and that is my opinion, of course they will put the animals down because of the devastation of what has happened and it has taken a child's life. 

You could never trust that dog again which is sooo sad. 

That grandmother has to live with this for the rest of her life and i think that is punishment enough for her!! 

Please pm me as i feel left out without one!!!


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## Guest

dipdog said:


> this is all i was saying i didnt mean to affend, was just stating my opinion that if it came to it i would kill the dogs to get them of the child, sorry if i did affend.


Think i've lost the plot!! You never offended me!


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## Guest

Izzie999 said:


> Im sorry butI can't have any pity for the dogs, they have denied two parents the joy of watching their baby grow up. I know there are big animal lovers on here but people please get your priorities right, these dogs murdered this child and deserved to be pts. Yes the grandmother should have not left them on their own with the baby and I hope she lives with that pain for the rest of her days AND gets punished by the law too. I don't care how people see me after this post, a childs life far outweighs that of a family pet!!!!
> 
> Izzie


I agree - I'm sorry guys. If Zach ever had to be pts I would be devastated, but if he had killed my child I wouldn't be there feeling sorry for him I'd be feeling bitterly angry that my baby had been taken...

I also agree that the woman should never have left them unattended, its a tragedy all round but to me the dogs should definately have been pts.


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## Katie&Cody

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> iam a young carer i look after 2 toddlers & a young child. i still would not kill my dogs, proberly badly injure them, but i just couldnt kill them


I dont think having children has anything to do with it, we have young brothers or sisters and care for children... we would step in and do what we could...when another dog went to attack another i stepped it, and got bit..but broke it up!! I would do the same, if not more for a child of course i would but i would not kill the dogs...neither would i put a dog i was unsure about in the situation that they are not used to (crying baby) if i thought i would be unable to stop any situation that may occur.



DoubleTrouble said:


> Don't think you did offend anyone - think we are all in unison - had any off us been in the room at the time of the attack we would have fought to have saved the child. I have two big dogs, and I genuinely believe I could have fought then off had I been in this situation.
> we'll just have to wait and see - I'm guessing ithe grandmother if not disabled then she would have been out of the room - maybe in the bathroom - only guessing - we'll have to wait and see.


Completley agree. Good Post.


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## DKDREAM

louise5031 said:


> I agree - I'm sorry guys. If Zach ever had to be pts I would be devastated, but if he had killed my child I wouldn't be there feeling sorry for him I'd be feeling bitterly angry that my baby had been taken...
> 
> I also agree that the woman should never have left them unattended, its a tragedy all round but to me the dogs should definately have been pts.


They have been PTS


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## Biawhiska

Simple baby & dogs should not have been allowed in the same room. No one to blame except themselves. There is always a risk in having any animal around a small child. Up to them to take that risk.


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## Chell82xx

Katie&Cody said:


> I dont think having children has anything to do with it, we have young brothers or sisters and care for children... we would step in and do what we could...when another dog went to attack another i stepped it, and got bit..but broke it up!! I would do the same, if not more for a child of course i would but i would not kill the dogs...neither would i put a dog i was unsure about in the situation that they are not used to (crying baby) if i thought i would be unable to stop any situation that may occur.
> .


But thats the difference between you and some of these people that it has happened to, you would not put a dog you were unsure about in that situation! If Cody was not used to being around a 3.5mnt old baby i am sure you would not let him near unless you knew 100% he would be ok and then you wouldn't leave him etc etc.

I would not intentionally harm the dog and as DT said i hope to the bottom of my sole that i would be able to control my dogs in that situation but as long as that little baby had breath in its body i would fight the dogs off but then this would be my same reaction if it was any person/animal who was unable to fight off a predator!


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## Guest

Biawhiska said:


> Simple baby & dogs should not have been allowed in the same room. No one to blame except themselves. There is always a risk in having any animal around a small child. Up to them to take that risk.


I am still waiting for my membership to be deleted so I might has well have my say again before they send me off.

I truly cannot believe the mentality of some of your answers. Perhaps you want to send your views on to the parents of the child involved, just in case they aren't destroyed enough as it is.

If that had been any animal of mine, I would have taken whatever means necessary to remove it from the child and if that meant ending it's life then so be it. A dog that has killed a child will do it again - regardless of any provocation. If any of you feel sorry for these animals then you are sick.

Perhaps you are the same people who think that murderers and paedophiles act the way they do for a reason and it is the victim's fault for putting themselves in that position???

I am so glad that it is so clear cut for you all and I applaud Izzie for standing on my side for this one.

Mark - the sooner you act on my request the better.


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## DKDREAM

FluffyCoonz said:


> I am still waiting for my membership to be deleted so I might has well have my say again before they send me off.
> 
> I truly cannot believe the mentality of some of your answers. Perhaps you want to send your views on to the parents of the child involved, just in case they aren't destroyed enough as it is.
> 
> If that had been any animal of mine, I would have taken whatever means necessary to remove it from the child and if that meant ending it's life then so be it. A dog that has killed a child will do it again - regardless of any provocation. If any of you feel sorry for these animals then you are sick.
> 
> Perhaps you are the same people who think that murderers and paedophiles act the way they do for a reason and it is the victim's fault for putting themselves in that position???
> 
> I am so glad that it is so clear cut for you all and I applaud Izzie for standing on my side for this one.
> 
> Mark - the sooner you act on my request the better.


Great post"!!


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## Guest

DKDREAM said:


> Great post"!!


Why thank you!


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## DKDREAM

Id do the same if blaze ever bit anyone at all even just braking the skin id have him PTS not worth risking my familey.


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## hazyreality

i see why the people had the dogs put to sleep, they cannot trust them and they could never look after them again after losing their child/grandchild, there would be so much hate there. also rescues wouldnt have taken the dogs from them with a reputation and if they did chances are they would be put to sleep there. 

I obviously blame the dogs for the attack as they obviously did attack the baby. but i also dont believe that it was the dogs fault, as lots of people have said, if the dogs were not used to kids/babies or the baby cried and spooked them into thinking it was prey or injured, then it was an instinct not spite.

i also believe that the granmother(unless disabled) could not have been in the room with them when it happened. surely if she was she would be treated for bites or at least scratches from trying to stop them, not just shock. and if she left them unattended well, she'll have to live with that guilt because rule one of dog ownership is not to leave them unattended with kids!

also agree with whoever said that they are glad in one way that it was a smaller dog involved because big dogs like rotties/shepherds/mastiffs get such a bad name. i'm sure we'll see loads of staffies and jrt's in the rescues in the next couple of weeks.

*Heidi*


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## Biawhiska

No one is forcing you to log on and read this you know  

I don't feel sorry for the dogs. However, I do feel the situation of the dogs being with a tiny baby like that should never have happened. So why was it allowed to happen?


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## Guest

Biawhiska said:


> No one is forcing you to log on and read this you know
> 
> I don't feel sorry for the dogs. However, I do feel the situation of the dogs being with a tiny baby like that should never have happened. So why was it allowed to happen?


No-one is forcing me but it is great to see people's true colours....


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## Kathryn1

You are all argueing over something that you have read and heard on the news. All we know for fact is that a baby was killed by a dog or dogs. 

We do not know why or how it happened? 

Is it worth argeuing about and deleting yourselves off a forum for? 

People all have an opinion, can we not say " i agree too disagree".


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## Biawhiska

Yeah it's annoying when people don't share the shame opinion, especially on a discussion forum in a news section.


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## DKDREAM

FluffyCoonz said:


> No-one is forcing me but it is great to see people's true colours....


its sad you want to leave though. I'll keep checking ya site for updates


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## Guest

Biawhiska said:


> Yeah it's annoying when people don't share the shame opinion, especially on a discussion forum in a news section.


Opinions and discussions are all part of forum life but to say that a dog is in no way to blame for killing a baby is wrong. How do you think that baby felt whilst it was lying there having it's body torn apart?


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

fluffycoonz

No i would not send my views to the parents , thats why we are debating it on here.

and the reason u is leavinf PF is because its not 'pets' enough.
you are in the general section. and this is a discussion about this toppic, not about our pets !

The cat section is full of people needing advice.

as previosly said no-one has a gun to your head forcing you to read this! 

'Perhaps you are the same people who think that murderers and paedophiles act the way they do for a reason and it is the victim's fault for putting themselves in that position???'

That is completley different!!! these people know what they are doing is wrong, but do these dogs acting on insinct or fear??


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## Chell82xx

Kathryn1 said:


> You are all argueing over something that you have read and heard on the news. All we know for fact is that a baby was killed by a dog or dogs.
> 
> We do not know why or how it happened?
> 
> Is it worth argeuing about and deleting yourselves off a forum for?
> 
> People all have an opinion, can we not say " i agree too disagree".


Well said, everyone is entitled to an opinion and i would never force mine on anyone else and would never fall out with anyone for not agreeing with me!!


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## DKDREAM

FluffyCoonz said:


> Opinions and discussions are all part of forum life but to say that a dog is in no way to blame for killing a baby is wrong. How do you think that baby felt whilst it was lying there having it's body torn apart?


agreed what ever reasons the dogs had they turned agressive and diserved to be PTS in my opinion.


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## Biawhiska

FluffyCoonz said:


> Opinions and discussions are all part of forum life but to say that a dog is in no way to blame for killing a baby is wrong. How do you think that baby felt whilst it was lying there having it's body torn apart?


The dog is to blame because it killed the baby, but why was it allowed to kill the baby? We all die, sometimes it's more horrific than others.


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## Guest

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> fluffycoonz
> 
> No i would not send my views to the parents , thats why we are debating it on here.
> 
> and the reason u is leavinf PF is because its not 'pets' enough.
> you are in the general section. and this is a discussion about this toppic, not about our pets !
> 
> The cat section is full of people needing advice.
> 
> as previosly said no-one has a gun to your head forcing you to read this!
> 
> 'Perhaps you are the same people who think that murderers and paedophiles act the way they do for a reason and it is the victim's fault for putting themselves in that position???'
> 
> That is completley different!!! these people know what they are doing is wrong, but do these dogs acting on insinct or fear??


The reason I am leaving is because I don't want to share my thoughts and views with people who clearly condone this sort of behaviour.

If a dog's instinct is to kill a baby then I'm glad I don't have dogs. Then I have nothing to fear do I?

Oh and this is the pets news forum love - I think that is to do with pets.


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## DKDREAM

Chell82xx said:


> Well said, everyone is entitled to an opinion and i would never force mine on anyone else and would never fall out with anyone for not agreeing with me!!


I wouldnt fall out with people either but do feel the dogs are in the best place "at rest" because they could have attacked more people.


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## Biawhiska

Well i've never said it's ok for a dog to kill a baby so i'm off the hook :cornut:


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## Guest

Biawhiska said:


> Well i've never said it's ok for a dog to kill a baby so i'm off the hook :cornut:


This time :yesnod:


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## Biawhiska

what is that mean't to mean? if you are going then there will not be a next time.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster

FluffyCoonz said:


> The reason I am leaving is because I don't want to share my thoughts and views with people who clearly condone this sort of behaviour.
> 
> If a dog's instinct is to kill a baby then I'm glad I don't have dogs. Then I have nothing to fear do I?
> 
> Oh and this is the pets news forum love - I think that is to do with pets.


i know this is 'pet news' but i said its in general! not the cat section..

and i am not your love nor shall i want to be..

i dont condone this behavior!! just because some people dont share your views dosent mean you have to storm off in a paddy!

i didnt say it is instinct to kill ababy, if you read through the post then you'll know that a baby sounds like a distressed/injured animal so its in its hunting instinct to attack comprende?

x


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## Chell82xx

DKDREAM said:


> I wouldnt fall out with people either but do feel the dogs are in the best place "at rest" because they could have attacked more people.


I agree, purely because i would never of been at rest with myself if they were not and someone made an excellent point that no rehoming centre would of rehomed them and the family would never have trusted or wanted to see the dogs again.

If it were a person then the family would of fought for justice by imprisonment and then there would of been people "calling" for the death sentence etc!


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## Guest

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> i know this is 'pet news' but i said its in general! not the cat section..
> 
> and i am not your love nor shall i want to be..
> 
> i dont condone this behavior!! just because some people dont share your views dosent mean you have to storm off in a paddy!
> 
> i didnt say it is instinct to kill ababy, if you read through the post then you'll know that a baby sounds like a distressed/injured animal so its in its hunting instinct to attack comprende?
> 
> x


Sooo touchy, love. Shouldn't you be in the hamster section then?

Anyway, I shall not be arguing with a 14 year old child. Let's just hope that no-one on here has to deal with anything like this in their lifetime.

Oh and I'm not storming off in a paddy - I have been patiently waiting all day :thumbsup:


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## trigger

I wish some of you would not use terms like 'if I knew my dogs couldn't be trusted' and 'they must have been provoked' etc etc.

Dog lovers must surely accept that NO dogs should be left alone with a young child, EVER, regardless of a blameless record, or complete trust by the owners, or no chance of provocation - ANY dog is capable of doing harm. 

There are no ifs and buts about it.


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## Biawhiska

trigger said:


> I wish some of you would not use terms like 'if I knew my dogs couldn't be trusted' and 'they must have been provoked' etc etc.
> 
> Dog lovers must surely accept that NO dogs should be left alone with a young child, EVER, regardless of a blameless record, or complete trust by the owners, or no chance of provocation - ANY dog is capable of doing harm.
> 
> There are no ifs and buts about it.


:thumbup1: totally agree.


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## Izzie999

FluffyCoonz said:


> Sooo touchy, love. Shouldn't you be in the hamster section then?
> 
> Anyway, I shall not be arguing with a 14 year old child. Let's just hope that no-one on here has to deal with anything like this in their lifetime.
> 
> Oh and I'm not storming off in a paddy - I have been patiently waiting all day :thumbsup:


You will be missed Fluffy! I really hope no one has to experience this, a death of a child is terrible enough but to lose one like this must be like hell on earth.

Izzie 
are you still waiting to stroll off into the sunset??


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## Guest

trigger said:


> I wish some of you would not use terms like 'if I knew my dogs couldn't be trusted' and 'they must have been provoked' etc etc.
> 
> Dog lovers must surely accept that NO dogs should be left alone with a young child, EVER, regardless of a blameless record, or complete trust by the owners, or no chance of provocation - ANY dog is capable of doing harm.
> 
> There are no ifs and buts about it.


Very, very well said.


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## Guest

Izzie999 said:


> You will be missed Fluffy! I really hope no one has to experience this, a death of a child is terrible enough but to lose one like this must be like hell on earth.
> 
> Izzie
> are you still waiting to stroll off into the sunset??


Thanks my lovely! Yes I am waiting still....I feel some of the drama of the moment may have been lost but hey....I went out with a bang!


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## hazyreality

trigger said:


> I wish some of you would not use terms like 'if I knew my dogs couldn't be trusted' and 'they must have been provoked' etc etc.
> 
> Dog lovers must surely accept that NO dogs should be left alone with a young child, EVER, regardless of a blameless record, or complete trust by the owners, or no chance of provocation - ANY dog is capable of doing harm.
> 
> There are no ifs and buts about it.


I agree that you never leave dogs and kids unattended.

We have a German Shepherd that is scared and runs away when babies cry or kids run about so he never stays with them. If he wants to come into the room(very unlikely) he is always supervised, he has a quick look and goes off again and thats where he stays in a different room(by his choice) i have a 5 month old nephew and by no means would he be left near him with us in the room, let alone in the room unattended, because you just don't know. Who was to say if left in the room that the fear would not turn to aggression, theres no need to take the risk whatever the size or breed of dog, or age of child.

*Heidi*


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## DKDREAM

Someone report the thread as the mods mite not see it


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