# Ultrasound showed empty bitch



## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Hey!
Im new to the forums. We have bred our siberianhusky bitch, one month ago. 
Dont worry, every precaution was taken before breeding, and both parents are excellent sleddogs.
Anyway, last week my bitch was scanned at the local vet, and the vet told me in a very final tone that the bitch was empty for sure. It was 28 days since first mating at the time. I bleieve we may have been still a little early to mate the couple, as they were very enthusiastic about the mating themselves. The vet did not mention, it might be too early to scan, and did not mention that working breeds often carry the pups high up in their ribcage.
We will have another scan tomorrow, confirming the first scans results a week ago.
As you can imagine I am totally going nuts with the waiting, since it would be our first litter.

The bitch in question is showing some signs of pregnancy at the moment. She has been eating very poorly for a couple of weeks, even so the last week, that barely nothing went down. Yesterday however we had a completely different situation, the dog has been suddenly eating very well, even dry kibble, which she usually wouldnt even bother tasting. After eating a bunch of meat and dry kibble after that she was still looking for the cats food and the other dogs food aswell. She has some mammary gland growth but to the very minimum i suppose. She likes bellyrubs more than before, but sometimes now puts her head to cover the belly in a protective manner while having the rubs. This morning i caught a slight drop of white vaselin like mucus on the tip of her vulva. It was not smelly and was white, not yellow. She has not had much growth around the belly. Its hard to tell since she has not eaten so well aswell.

Im pretty confident now she may be.... Just how will I manage till tomorrow, and more importantly, should i even believe if the scan shows again she is empty??!
In my country the relaxin test is not that common to take. most vets dont even recommend that at all. 
Is it very common for dogs to carry the pups in the ribcage? It is now 35days from the first mating. I believe somewhere between 28-32 days from conseption.

Im just looking to pass the time while waiting, maybe have some good stories to read, and experienced opinions on all this. *Im a little worried about the white mucus, even tho it didnt smell at all.* As Im seeing the vet tomorrow anyway for the free rescan, I tought we could wait on that matter to ask tomorrow.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Do you know someone who is a sheep scanner that will do dogs? They are usually the best scanners and are more likely to see puppies if they are there. Vets are not always the best at scanning.


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

We dont have as big sheep industry here where i live. I'm afraid its the regional vets that go around doing the scanning for the farm animals here. So i'm left at the option to scan at the dfferent vets. It also costs around 80-90euro to scan the dog so I'm not likely to pay that again. Luckily they offered a rescan week later from the original. I got the feeling the vet didn't really want to offer it, as he was very sure of the results. The first scan was about 1-2minutes of looking then stating there is nothing there.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

On what day of her season was she mated and how many times? Was there a tie?


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Rafa said:


> On what day of her season was she mated and how many times? Was there a tie?


Hi, the bitch was mated at the cycle days 14 and 15. There was a tie on day 15, on day 14 the male slipped out just second before enlargening. But he did the main act in the right place, we made sure.
We mated them at day 14 and 15, since we did a progesteron test on the day 10, and it showed the prog rising already a little. Didnt do a further test since the bitch was really into letting the male do its job. She was whining in the car when we arrived, went straight to the male and was ready without further ado. Heh, lets say the male was happy to proceed and things ja went nicely. We tried also on day 12 and day 13, but then the bitch was not quite ready yet. On the last day (15) they were already losing interest but were still eager to mate after a while.


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

I just got the feeling maybe it still, after all, was a little bit too early for the mating, since she tends to have long period cycle. Well, we went according to the dogs own timetable. Looking back, I have to say im sad we didnt try again on either day 16 or 17.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm not sure it was too early.

Bitches do vary, most of mine were receptive on their 13th day.

As your bitch was standing, it seems likely it was the right time for her.

How old is she and how old is the stud dog?


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Rafa said:


> I'm not sure it was too early.
> 
> Bitches do vary, most of mine were receptive on their 13th day.
> 
> ...


Lets hope it was not too early. The bitch is now little over four, and the male is 3 years old. The male has had puppies before, my girl is a first timer.
I'm a little concerned about the discharge she is having. I will adress it to the vet tomorrow. I just caught a drop of it and it didnt smell much like anything, was just a little more sticky than pee, but whitish in colour. Does that sound normal? I have seen two drops of it today, both on the vulva of the dog.


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Okay, we are back from the vets office. Heres the outcome. They did rescan as we agreed. There was some internal organs to be seen, a lot of bowels in the way, since she didnt go poopie this morning.
There was some black areas to be seen, the vet did not comment on those. He said, as she should be 5weeks along the pups would be bigger and he couldnt see anything according to that. I asked about the possibility of fertilisation happening later, didnt get a proper answer. I asked about working breeds carrying puppies high wbehind the ribcage, vet said that is simply not possible. He said if there was puppies, we would see them definitely. Period. I also asked about the relaxintest possibility. I called multiple vets, nobody either knew what it was, or wanted to do it. They said to call someplace else, they dont do it! So, no bloodtest posiibility to confirm if the symptoms are phantompregnancy related. What do you guys think about all this? I think we have to wait this out before starting our sledtraining this season with the bitch in question.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

MPP said:


> I think we have to wait this out before starting our sledtraining this season with the bitch in question


Yes, to be on the safe side.


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Burrowzig said:


> Yes, to be on the safe side.


Yes I'd hate if there was some lone pup in there trying to make it, and training would harm it.
Her mammarytissue has been increasing still. Could be a very prominent false pregnancy. What i have noticed is, when she rests on her side, she looks a bit bigger form the bellyarea than normally. And also when walking, the stomach looks bigger. When standing or when i would try to feel the stomach gently, she tends to tighten her abdomen muscles, so its hard to see if its bigger. She is very fit dog, has a lean body and nice muscle build. Good tuck up on the waist, i have noticed maybe that has slightly lowered as well. When she sits her lower belly feels very tight and round. I dont remember for sure, but i think it used to be kinda soft, not very tight and hard. 
Can these happen also on fake pregnancy? Maybe Im looking for change and seeing it where there is nothing really 

Well i feel like talking to myself, since not a lot of comments have come to the thread, thank you anyhow for the people who have answered!

I'd like to add that we already have fine homes waiting for the pups we were wanting to have. One wouls have stayed at ours, and 5-6 pups would have had nice home already. I say 5-6, because there is usually some changes when the pups arrive. But, now it seems maybe we are having no pups at all, or _maybe_ a singleton, i'm not sure i would be able to give that pup to someone else


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

MPP said:


> Well i feel like talking to myself, since not a lot of comments have come to the thread, thank you anyhow for the people who have answered!


Well, this would be because there are only a very few people on the forum with breeding experience.

It doesn't sound promising if there are no pups visible on a second scan.

I would be prepared, of course, but not hopeful.


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Rafa said:


> Well, this would be because there are only a very few people on the forum with breeding experience.
> 
> It doesn't sound promising if there are no pups visible on a second scan.
> 
> I would be prepared, of course, but not hopeful.


Yeah I agree that its not very likely to have puppies during this cycle. More likely we are going to have a peoblem with phantom pregnancy next month.
My other husky used to have bad phantoms. It went all the way to the point, she had contractions at the two month mark. We didnt mate this bitch, so we knew it was just a phantom. Just got worried if it might be the pyometra! Went to the vet, it was just contractions after all. For two nights she was shaking and panting really badly, and looking for a nest. She got milk flowing as well. Had her sterilized as soon as we could, poor girl.
I have to add, she was mated before she came to us, had few litters of puppies, so her body would know how to give birth.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

MPP said:


> Yes I'd hate if there was some lone pup in there trying to make it, and training would harm it.
> Her mammarytissue has been increasing still. Could be a very prominent false pregnancy. What i have noticed is, when she rests on her side, she looks a bit bigger form the bellyarea than normally. And also when walking, the stomach looks bigger. When standing or when i would try to feel the stomach gently, she tends to tighten her abdomen muscles, so its hard to see if its bigger. She is very fit dog, has a lean body and nice muscle build. Good tuck up on the waist, i have noticed maybe that has slightly lowered as well. When she sits her lower belly feels very tight and round. I dont remember for sure, but i think it used to be kinda soft, not very tight and hard.
> Can these happen also on fake pregnancy? Maybe Im looking for change and seeing it where there is nothing really
> 
> ...


I've never had a bitch who had a false pregnancy, but have bred.
Scans aren't perfect. My bitch scanned for 3, but had 6.


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Burrowzig said:


> I've never had a bitch who had a false pregnancy, but have bred.
> Scans aren't perfect. My bitch scanned for 3, but had 6.


That is what i have heard, the scans are not that accurate. I would think you would still be more likely to get puppies, if you actually see pups on the screen  the amount how ever is not accurate for sure. Of course there are the cases where the scanner was totally wrong, and there were puppies after empty scan. I'm not sure how common that is?
I will keep on hoping, but try to remain realistic, that most likely there are no pups this time. Unless i start seeing some big tummy growth, we wont further examine her at the vet. 
Anyway, I think we just have to wait and see this through. No quick solution.


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Here to have more questions, and thought about this all. Hopefully someone is still reading this post. 
Life is going on as normal, we are outdoors a lot, exploring and doing some hiking. My girl has been acting pretty normal for a week, not so tired anymore. I have noticed her outline becoming more sturdy, compared to what she is normally. I'm trying to be carefull what i feed her, to not over feed her. She just seems to be losing that curve between her ribs and her hindlegs.
I have noticed that when she sits, she has a tight roundish area in her lover belly, its really hard, I dont want to probe her too much, but when i give her cuddles, i notice it. Now i cant bring myself to remember if this is normal for her or not. Is it sign of pregnancy or something to worry about? 

Her mammaries seem to be still growing little by little. Her ribcage seems to be bit wider, the hair may be sticking up a little bit on the sides. She is very furry in a husky way, so its hard to really know, with the winterfur becoming thicker and thicker.
She seems to be very active outside at the moment, having fun, its almost winter! Im almost worried that IF she is pregnant, she might hurt the pups while going about on our walks.

So maybe my main worry was the belly area, when she is sitting. It seems to be very tight. We still have a vet visit scheduled for next week, earliest we could get. This is a different vet now. Im hoping some experienced insight from you on this matter. Its long days till the vet appointment. Is it maybe something that never happens in dog pregnancy, and thus very worrying?

She is still having some discharge, it is still (cloudy) white with no coloring, or no smell at all. The vet didnt seem to be worried about this on the phone.

So a very phantompregnant doggy, or a very pregnant doggy here.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I don't believe you have any need to worry.

Whether your bitch is pregnant or having a false pregnancy, she is not displaying any symptoms/signs that would be a cause for concern.

I have doubt that she is pregnant, but happy to be proved wrong.

Try to relax now, watch her and be prepared.


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Rafa said:


> I don't believe you have any need to worry.
> 
> Whether your bitch is pregnant or having a false pregnancy, she is not displaying any symptoms/signs that would be a cause for concern.
> 
> ...


Trying my best to take it easy, thanks for your input Rafa! It is very nerve wrecking to be on the watch, but then again the doctor said what she said. That no pups this time around. We will be there for her, and have the time off from work scheduled just in case, around the time of her duedate.


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Hey all! 
Today we got an second opinion and scanning from another doctor, just to get some peace of mind. The result was again empty! So now I think it is quite safe to say that *we are not getting any pups, *and start looking towards next year and a new try on the next heat! It's been an emotional rollercoaster!


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## MPP (Oct 19, 2020)

Okay guys, even at the risk of you good people telling me im totally crazy, I'm pretty sure i felt teenytiny kicks yesterday from my dogs belly. She was looking very bloated again after dinner, which she has been looking for a week or so now. I put my hand next to her ribs, and "pressed" gently but firmly with my palm against her skin. There, after a while i felt like few tiny kicks, like somebody tapping against my hand.
If she is not preggers, i will still come to tell you guys, so you can all think im totally crazy person. But you will have a definite update how this plays out. I was thinking already, i'm sure there are no puppers in there, so no xray for her. Now im thinking, if i feel the movement again, defo an xray for her. The movement i felt was exactly on the ribcages edge, more inside the ribs. First a faint movement, could be gas i tought. Then, a tiny tap. And after a while a bit more prominent tap with some fluttering. Maybe massive gas, maybe a puppy. I cant rest easy thinking, maybe there is a singleton there, and risk losing them both. I will keep a very keen eye on my girl. 
Week seven, or so, at the moment.


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Get her for a xray. You will know for certain then.


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## ZoeT85 (Nov 24, 2020)

What was the outcome ? X


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## Lucie Riley (Feb 23, 2021)

MPP said:


> Okay guys, even at the risk of you good people telling me im totally crazy, I'm pretty sure i felt teenytiny kicks yesterday from my dogs belly. She was looking very bloated again after dinner, which she has been looking for a week or so now. I put my hand next to her ribs, and "pressed" gently but firmly with my palm against her skin. There, after a while i felt like few tiny kicks, like somebody tapping against my hand.
> If she is not preggers, i will still come to tell you guys, so you can all think im totally crazy person. But you will have a definite update how this plays out. I was thinking already, i'm sure there are no puppers in there, so no xray for her. Now im thinking, if i feel the movement again, defo an xray for her. The movement i felt was exactly on the ribcages edge, more inside the ribs. First a faint movement, could be gas i tought. Then, a tiny tap. And after a while a bit more prominent tap with some fluttering. Maybe massive gas, maybe a puppy. I cant rest easy thinking, maybe there is a singleton there, and risk losing them both. I will keep a very keen eye on my girl.
> Week seven, or so, at the moment.


What was the outcome as I'm going through this too!


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## Sammysunshine (Mar 10, 2021)

Lucie Riley said:


> What was the outcome as I'm going through this too!


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## Sammysunshine (Mar 10, 2021)

What was the outcome ? 
Going through exactly the same with my St Bernard. Scanned at 25 days scanner couldn't say either way , scanned 37 days empty but I'm convinced she's pregnant . Not eating breakfast last couple of days, very lethargic , nipples bigger and pinky and 2 inny nipples now outty. Belly looks bigger and at more affectionate..... I'm soooooo confused


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## Sammysunshine (Mar 10, 2021)

MPP said:


> Hey!
> Im new to the forums. We have bred our siberianhusky bitch, one month ago.
> Dont worry, every precaution was taken before breeding, and both parents are excellent sleddogs.
> Anyway, last week my bitch was scanned at the local vet, and the vet told me in a very final tone that the bitch was empty for sure. It was 28 days since first mating at the time. I bleieve we may have been still a little early to mate the couple, as they were very enthusiastic about the mating themselves. The vet did not mention, it might be too early to scan, and did not mention that working breeds often carry the pups high up in their ribcage.
> ...


What was the outcome please ?


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2021)

Sammysunshine said:


> What was the outcome ?
> Going through exactly the same with my St Bernard. Scanned at 25 days scanner couldn't say either way , scanned 37 days empty but I'm convinced she's pregnant . Not eating breakfast last couple of days, very lethargic , nipples bigger and pinky and 2 inny nipples now outty. Belly looks bigger and at more affectionate..... I'm soooooo confused





Sammysunshine said:


> What was the outcome please ?


The OP hasn't been on this forum since last November so not sure you'll get a reply. Perhaps try starting your own thread.


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## Kim hill (Mar 30, 2021)

Sammysunshine said:


> What was the outcome please ?


What was ur outcome hun , same her with my Saint x


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## Sammysunshine (Mar 10, 2021)

Kim hill said:


> What was ur outcome hun , same her with my Saint x


Hi it was a phantom symptoms died off quite soon after this post x


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