# What does everybody else do about counter surfers?



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I mean, apart from the obvious of not leaving anything on the worktop to tempt them, what else is to be done? I have just turned my back for literally two seconds and Ferdie has stolen the meat wrapper. I have never had a dog like this before, usually after a few times of being told no, they don't try it again. Makes no odds to him, to be honest, and there nothing he can't reach.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Will watch this with interest being as Oscar has nearly set fire to the house twice now turning the hob on whilst surfing


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I mean, apart from the obvious of not leaving anything on the worktop to tempt them, what else is to be done? I have just turned my back for literally two seconds and Ferdie has stolen the meat wrapper. I have never had a dog like this before, usually after a few times of being told no, they don't try it again. Makes no odds to him, to be honest, and there nothing he can't reach.


That's the trouble with your naughty boy he is big so can easily pinch stuff.

Mine are spaniel sized and they do know the word 'NO" but Milly is a little madam and though she can't reach to counter surf she will try and lick my plate if I have had a sandwich or a cake on my little table next to my sofa. Oh and god forbid if there is some kitchen roll on there too!!

I say "no" and think she's understood, then the cheeky madam squeezes in next to the tiny gap between sofa and table and then I see the tongue:lol:

With yours maybe you could spray something onto it that tastes horrible so that he has a shock when he pinches it!!!


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I mean, apart from the obvious of not leaving anything on the worktop to tempt them, what else is to be done?


May be have a Cesar Milan Garden Gnome on the counter oozing calm assertive energy?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> That's the trouble with your naughty boy he is big so can easily pinch stuff.
> 
> Mine are spaniel sized and they do know the word 'NO" but Milly is a little madam and though she can't reach to counter surf she will try and lick my plate if I have had a sandwich or a cake on my little table next to my sofa. Oh and god forbid if there is some kitchen roll on there too!!
> 
> ...


I don't think anything tastes horrible to him, and knowing my housekeeping skills it would get into my next meal!

I think my retriever must have been some sort of dream dog. He got on the worktop a couple of times, got told no, and never did it again. He would also never take anything in the way of food that was not given to him. Joshua puts his chin up there, but since he cannot jump anywhere with his legs, I don't know if he would do it or not. Ferdie is the one; he steals stuff then goes shares it with Joshua!


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## kathryn773 (Sep 2, 2008)

oh the irony, as i read this thread i hear the familiar pat pat pat pat, leap, thud, in he comes with the sponge scourer! (i had obviously left it at the front of the sink not the back!)

bobby really really likes to steal the cotton pads with cleanser on them.
on pancake day some lemon juice had dripped on the table, bobby zone.... he soon backed off when he realised his mistake!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RobD-BCactive said:


> May be have a Cesar Milan Garden Gnome on the counter oozing calm assertive energy?


Now, I don't want him frightened, thanks


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## golfchick (Mar 18, 2010)

id be interested to know as well being that we have a big dog on the way that is notoriously food orientated!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

And I thought it was just me


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I would love to know as Kilo can reach anything he wants...I just have to be careful not to leave anything out. All the techniques I have found on t'interweb are very aversive such as leaving set mousetraps up there  Kilo knows 'off' and will do it for reward....but he would steal something in a flash if he could without a doubt. So far, he has managed an egg


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Obviously a super common prob....will have to write up a blog post on modification of this....have one on stealing dogs here but not specifically this: Canine Capers - dogs who love to steal | Pet Central&#039;s Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!

First, management - no unsupervised access to counter/table, no tempting things up there in the presence of the dog.
At least one clean week with no successful rehearsal of this behaviour.

Teach a really reliable 'go to mat'. Build on that so that it becomes a 'stay on mat' when you ask, then when you turn your back, then when you are out of the room, then build time.

Introduce a no reward marker too and teach your dog that means the denial of reward. With this in place, rig up a mirror to proof go to mat with person out of the room.

Impulse control exercises in ALL situations - turn everyday life into an impulse control exercise. Not all available food is your dogs and they need to learn that.

Other acceptable outlets for scavenging behaviour.

Make placing something on the counter a cue to go to mat and then stay on mat.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Dogless said:


> I would love to know as Kilo can reach anything he wants...I just have to be careful not to leave anything out. All the techniques I have found on t'interweb are very aversive such as leaving set mousetraps up there  Kilo knows 'off' and will do it for reward....but he would steal something in a flash if he could without a doubt. So far, he has managed an egg


If I was the DW I would probably stick a shock collar on him. That would do it, wouldn't it? I would rather he carried on stealing. The worst he has had was a gammon steak right out of the frying pan without disturbing the pan at all! I can't even nip to the loo while something is cooking.

Odd thing, though, if I leave our dinners on there while I go to call my son, I say to him "don't you touch that" and for some strange reason, he doesn't. So I suppose he is thinking: well, she didn't tell me not to touch it, so it must be all right :yesnod:


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

We have this problem with Molly-I dont even need to turn my back
She's been 'rewarded' a few times.
Its weird though, I got fed up of cat food being kept up high and a fortnight ago I started keeping it on the floor-after a few no's- all 3 leave it alone,if one falls out the dish that gets scoffed, I pretend I dont notice. I'm still amazed:yesnod:


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

You can get one of those sensor alarms. Basically if it senses anything say a dog going onto the surface it creates a really unpleasant loud sound.

They also do them for fridges

Either that or you can get those sensor mat things.

Put one on the floor where your surfaces are, covered in a towel or something and everytime he steps on it, it creates that unpleasant loud sound


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

tripod said:


> First, management - no unsupervised access to counter/table, no tempting things up there in the presence of the dog.
> At least one clean week with no successful rehearsal of this behaviour


But this is so dull, much more fun to stake out the kitchen with a remotely operated water pistol...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

NicoleW said:


> You can get one of those sensor alarms. Basically if it senses anything say a dog going onto the surface it creates a really unpleasant loud sound.
> 
> They also do them for fridges
> 
> ...


He is already terrified of loud noises, so I won't be trying any of those. Probably make him scared of coming into the kitchen at all.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RobD-BCactive said:


> But this is so dull, much more fun to stake out the kitchen with a remotely operated water pistol...


He is a newfoundland, Rob. He would view a water pistol as a double reward; I steal the food, reward 1. I then get lovely water, reward 2.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Ah, I didn't know that.

I just know a friend of mine used it for her overweight dog as he'd raid the entire kitchen when she went out


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I'd been very lucky until recently, I've always had big dogs but never had to deal with counter surfer... until Harvey came along! He was a little sod for stealing anything within his reach, my vet told me to leave something extra tempting (so that was some fresh, still warm liver cake for Harvey!) on the edge of the counter, and tie a piece of string to it, with a couple of empty tin cans attached. So when the dog grabs the food, he tugs the string and pulls the cans down too, which make an almighty bang when they land on the kitchen floor, scaring the life out of the poor dog.

You've obviously got to hover to make sure your dog doesn't wolf down food, string and all. It seemed too simple to work, but it took just the once for Harvey to get the message. He swiped the liver cake, down came the cans and end result was one pooped Bernese who never attempted it again


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Toby was always really good with leaving food lying around - he really wanted it as he would sit & stare at it, drool pouring from his mouth but he never stole anything. Until we got Roxy .....

She has taught him that it's great fun to steal stuff! Now we can't leave anything lying around. I have ;earnt the hard was .... my lovely oak smoked salmon was scoffed by the greedy b*ggers a few weeks ago!

The cats are even worse


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## HWAR (Jul 19, 2010)

As you know counter surfing is self rewarding, to break the chain you need to make sure its never rewarding over a long period of time otherwise all the gimmicks in the world wont change it, they'll just become more crafty about it 

My boy was starved when he arrived here, a real bag of bones, so all food items were like gold to him, the counter was within easy reach and I learnt the hard way to make sure my worktops were clear (mince defrosting, my sandwich, used cling film, leftover, crumbs etc). It took probably well over a year before the habit really broke (he never did it in front of us only when he thought he wouldn't get caught but always left a tell tale sign of drool or a paw print :rolleyes5:) and he rarely surfs these days unless I have been really stupid and left something delightful in reach.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm lucky here - Bruce is like an alarm and as soon as one of the dogs even get too near the counter he goes off like an alarm. Think he's jealous he can't do it too!


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

Since Eddie arrived we have had to put a stair gate across the kitchen door. His nose is at work top height and he has discovered bin raiding  Since he takes no notice of the word no - he even tries to steal your tea while you are drinking it - it was the best solution.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> I mean, apart from the obvious of not leaving anything on the worktop to tempt them, what else is to be done? I have just turned my back for literally two seconds and Ferdie has stolen the meat wrapper. I have never had a dog like this before, usually after a few times of being told no, they don't try it again. Makes no odds to him, to be honest, and there nothing he can't reach.


Welcome to my world!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

You've all made me feel a whole lot better - I was beginning to feel a failure! I try not to leave anything tempting, but he adores a nice cup to lick out and my son brings his down (about 20 at a time) and plonks them on the worktop. Then Ferdie will go get them, one at a time and bring them into the lounge, lick it out, then go get another. It is a losing battle really, but at least I know I am not alone.

The bin, by the way, stays in the cupboard!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I think it's very normal..! Milo is the one who I wouldn't trust around the oven so I shut the stairgate with them out of the kitchen if I need the loo etc. Neither would dare try it with ne around but would most likely consider it if something was about. Milo is a git he will steal saucepans out the sink and lick them  he doesn't just reach in he takes them out and puts them on the floor so things get put in the dishwasher sharpish now. Only way ours are not too bad is through a lack of temptation! Saying that just tonight Mum left a knife with butter on the side and Rupert nicked it but it was way past his dinner time and he was hungry to be fair!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Have you got a dog control gate on your kitchen? that might be a help when you are preparing food, keep him the other side of the gate. If he tries to jump up the gate do the ahh ahh, then with food, get him to sit behind the gate and wait and then reward him for the sitting and waiting. Just keep doing constant repetitions, building up sitting and the time of waiting before he get the treat as he gets better. I would also be teaching him the leave command also and practive that. Dont know if its text book, but I have always taught mine sit and wait, until I get a reliable quite long wait time and impulse control first before treating, then progress to stepping back putting a treat on the floor covering it with my hand saying leave, repeat leave then uncover it and tell mine to take it. Once you have got a good sit,wait and leave, at the other side of the gate. I would then take the exercise into the kitchen just as a training exercise, not when preparing food. if he jumps up the counter, then ahh ahh to interupt and stop him. Then do the sit wait building up the wait time gradually again and treat him only when he stays put. if any once you can get him to sit an wait for treats in the kitchen and the ahh ahh stops the jumping up the counter. I would then get him to sit,wait put a treat on the counter, and do the sit wait leave. if he does it then treat him for staying put and not jumping up.

It wont be a quick fix, and you are going to have to teach each stage separately, and reliably before moving onto the next, but with enough repetitions over a period you should be able to condition him and he should realise that not jumping up gets him more things. To start with when you get to the counter stage, Make sure the treat he gets for not jumping up and taking the "leave it" one on the counter is of much higher value and tastier,chesse hot dog,chicken and pieces of sausage are good. make the one on the counter he has to leave pale into comparrison at first. You can then up it to something a bit more high value as you progress to put on the counter to exercise his self control and temptation.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Will watch this with interest being as Oscar has nearly set fire to the house twice now turning the hob on whilst surfing


I read of this happening to some one. Now I switch mine of at the socket when I go out...

I have a gate at the kitchen door and just keep it shut when I am cooking. If I forget there is tub of spoons on the side by the door, a ladle banged on the work surface stops him dead he will stand and look at me, as if to say, "what me get down? OK then, but I will just check the floor on my way out"...rrr: notice I say *him*.... that is mr greedy dallie pants, perfect pointer would never be so bad...he does not go in the kitchen unless invited to.:smilewinkgrin:


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## Jonesey (Dec 30, 2010)

The shepherd I had when I was young was notorious. Skipper once at an entire chicken and used to lick the butter if it was left out.

Biscuit can just get her nose up to the edge of the counter, we're lucky there.

I really want a Cesar Millan garden gnome now, where can I get one?


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## wooliewoo (May 27, 2008)

Mine have learnt to be quite getting things off the side................lucy shared a plate of cakes with the others.........she pulled the teatowel which was covering them moving the plate nearer the edge and was grabbing the cakes off with her mouth and "handing" them to the others.....i walked in just as they were going for 2nds.
Mind they have washed up a few plates left by the sink too

Only solution for me is not to have anything on the side, or no dogs in kitchen



As for the cooker (ive removed all the knobs --nearly been gassed a few times so its the safest thing)


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

We're getting a gas isolator switch fitted today for our oven. Top half is gas, it has no lid to prevent the gas turning on when down and there is no safety cut out, it simply leaks gas over until lit. Guy putting the switch in said someone's dog in Springfield had turned the gas on and the house reaked, they really thought it was going to blow up


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> He is a newfoundland, Rob. He would view a water pistol as a double reward; I steal the food, reward 1. I then get lovely water, reward 2.


Yes, the water pistol was sarcastic in reference to a past thread, where undesirable behaviour was going on when bored dogs were unsupervised. I used the "sarcastic rolling eyes" thing to show I was "messing".


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

SixStar said:


> my vet told me to leave something extra tempting (so that was some fresh, still warm liver cake for Harvey!) on the edge of the counter, and tie a piece of string to it, with a couple of empty tin cans attached. So when the dog grabs the food, he tugs the string and pulls the cans down too, which make an almighty bang when they land on the kitchen floor, scaring the life out of the poor dog


Doesn't this have risk of unintended consequences if this one shock, is truly so effective? Couldn't the dog just be fearful and stressed in the kitchen, rather than learn the intended specific "lesson"?

Coincidentally in a discussion about hitting dogs I had when out on walkies yesterday, a chap admitted on one occasion that had been done for counter surfing and his bitch had never done it again.

On one occasion I remember losing the family Sunday lunch, a whole leg of lamb to the dog, when it was defrosting right against the back of the counter apparently safely. Despite the dog not having a track record (I could actually leave my dinner on a plate on the floor and that dog would leave it unmolested if I left the room), he really was no "stealer".

Provided with sufficiently tempting reward and the opportunity he figured out a way to reach without alerting anyone and enjoyed..


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Ive had a few counter-surfing incidents with Kite, always when I'm out. But she's not eaten anything, just taken packets of food in its wrappings to her crate!


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## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

HWAR said:


> As you know counter surfing is self rewarding, to break the chain you need to make sure its never rewarding over a long period of time otherwise all the gimmicks in the world wont change it, they'll just become more crafty about it


Hmm, this is kind of what I believe... you can't teach a dog not to steal, you can just teach them to get more sneaky about it . We have a Great Dane so anything on the counter is fair game basically. We have just learnt to tidy away all food or keep the kitchen door closed. The thing is she knows it's wrong because she won't try and steal food off of our plates or if she thinks we are looking but from the way she reacts when she gets caught stealing from the kitchen you can clearly tell she knows she's been naughty . It's just a case of "there is food and nobody is around to tell me off so I'm having it!".


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Set_Nights said:


> Hmm, this is kind of what I believe... you can't teach a dog not to steal, you can just teach them to get more sneaky about it . We have a Great Dane so anything on the counter is fair game basically. We have just learnt to tidy away all food or keep the kitchen door closed. The thing is she knows it's wrong because she won't try and steal food off of our plates or if she thinks we are looking but from the way she reacts when she gets caught stealing from the kitchen you can clearly tell she knows she's been naughty . It's just a case of "there is food and nobody is around to tell me off so I'm having it!".


With dogs, if no-one else has claimed it, it's up for grabs. She knows the food on your plates is claimed.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Doesn't this have risk of unintended consequences if this one shock, is truly so effective? Couldn't the dog just be fearful and stressed in the kitchen, rather than learn the intended specific "lesson"?
> 
> Coincidentally in a discussion about hitting dogs I had when out on walkies yesterday, a chap admitted on one occasion that had been done for counter surfing and his bitch had never done it again.
> 
> ...


Yes, of course it carries that risk. Hence the method should only be used at discretion of the owner, who will know their dogs disposition and how they are likely. I knew it wasn't something that would worry a bolshy Bernese pup, but I wouldn't dream of doing the same method with one of my Greyhounds for example 

Oh and please don't compare the method I suggested (entirely pain free) to hitting a dog.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

SixStar said:


> Yes, of course it carries that risk. Hence the method should only be used at discretion of the owner, who will know their dogs disposition and how they are likely. I knew it wasn't something that would worry a bolshy Bernese pup, but I wouldn't dream of doing the same method with one of my Greyhounds for example
> 
> Oh and please don't compare the method I suggested (entirely pain free) to hitting a dog.


I didn't compare it to hitting, it just happened that someone admitted it and said "it worked" presumably due to the shock caused. Personally if anyone is to be hit, for leaving dog unattended with tempting food on counter, it's themself.

On the tin cans, I think someone had to point out the possible downside and backfire risk, particularly for the more nerve prone breeds like hounds and collies.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

Of course you can teach a dog not to steal - all behaviour is modifiable, even hardwired ones.

Not all food belongs to the dog, that can be taught, in fact is vital to teach.


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

We have this problem with Bronson only it's probably about 100 times worse ! 
Spoke to 15 different top newfie people - every one of them said he will not change . Newfies = monsters. Barney is the goody two shoes but Blue and Bronson are the toerags ! Can i ask what colour he is? x


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> We have this problem with Bronson only it's probably about 100 times worse !
> Spoke to 15 different top newfie people - every one of them said he will not change . Newfies = monsters. Barney is the goody two shoes but Blue and Bronson are the toerags ! Can i ask what colour he is? x


He's black. So is Joshua but he can't jump at all because of his front legs, so I don't know if he would be the same. I don't think so, though. He is really not a thief of any kind.


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> He's black. So is Joshua but he can't jump at all because of his front legs, so I don't know if he would be the same. I don't think so, though. He is really not a thief of any kind.


Bronson is brown! The blacks are the best behaved then landseer then brown are just utter monsters lmao! Bronson knows what no means and is sooo intelligent and will do everything you ask him at obedience and stuff .. but if wants to do something he will lol . x


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> Bronson is brown! The blacks are the best behaved then landseer then brown are just utter monsters lmao! Bronson knows what no means and is sooo intelligent and will do everything you ask him at obedience and stuff .. but if wants to do something he will lol . x


Jardine on here has a black and two landseers, I think I have that the right way round, and she reckons that the Americans have got it right and that the landseers are a different breed. Much more hyper than the black apparently. I always liked the brown ones myself, but you don't seem to find them very much among the top breeders.

Both mine are black with a white blaze on their chests. Mine also have one hell of a lot of fur. I know newfies have a lot, but some I have seen don't have nearly so much and the mobile groomer I had does a lot of newfies and he says he has never seen one with so much fur. I spent all day yesterday blasting out all Ferdie loose hair (wasn't much) and he doesn't have hardly any dead fur on him now but it is still extremely thick.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Floss, standard poodle, was a terrible thief and tall enough to pinch stuff so we had to make sure nothing was around. Candy will climb on a chair so I have to make sure no chairs are in reach of counters. 
I had a collie who would discreetly steal things off plates on the counter.

I have never found it a huge problem, just make sure food isnt around, but if it is a problem I do think a short sharp shock, be it creeping up behind the dog and smacking it and retreating fast so it doesnt know you did it, or setting up some sort of 'noise' when the dog digresses is the most efficient. If it is unpleasant then it wont put its nose or feet up there. Much easier and more pleasant to solve it in one sharp lesson than to fiddle around for weeks achieving very little.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

AVSAB: Guidelines on the Use of Punishment for Dealing with Behavior Problems in Animals



AVSAB said:


> Punishment is frequently a first-line or an early-use tool by both the general public and traditional dog trainers. While punishment can be very effective in some specific contexts depending on the individual animal, it can be associated with many serious adverse effects. (Refer to p. 3: Adverse Effects of Punishment). These adverse effects can put the safety of the pet and the person administering the punishment at risk. Because of these safety risks, people recommending these techniques are taking a liability risk...
> For instance, if the punishment is not strong enough, the animal may habituate or get used to it, so that the owner needs to escalate the intensity...
> Even when punishment seems mild, in order to be effective it often must elicit a strong fear response, and this fear response can generalize to things that sound or look similar to the punishment. Punishment has also been shown to elicit aggressive behavior in many species of animals.6 Thus, using punishment can put the person administering it or any person near the animal at risk of being bitten or attacked.


More simply put, this style of punishment doesn't work reliably and can have side effects. Much harder and unpleasant to undo the damage of the quick fix of "one sharp lesson". The frighteners and hitting the dog are all about scaring them and evoking a strong fear response, in your *own home* where the dog should feel secure and safest.


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

My friend swears by leaving slices of bread out covered in hot chilli sauce. His dog won't touch any food unless he's told he can have it  I've never got around to buying any hot chilli sauce... I taught leave it and so long as I remember to say leave it before I walk off I'm ok but I have an invisible line that they are not allowed to cross when I am cooking as I can't be saying leave it every time I nip to the fridge etc..

I remove all my gas cooker knobs when I'm not cooking as nearly been gassed several times :mad2:


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