# Cat leaving random small nuggets of poo



## Martin-W (Feb 18, 2018)

We got a rescue cat about 18 months ago - 12mth old late-neutered tom (now 2.5yrs).

Aside from being very noisy/demanding, he's a lovely, affectionate, handsome cat. But he has intermittently (and now it's up to nearly once a day) dropped small (raisin-sized) nuggets of poo around the house.

His toilet habits otherwise seem normal - he'll use both the litter tray and the garden (more recently the front lawn, but that's a separate issue), for both urine and poo.

I don't think he knows he's doing it - often he'll get up from where he's been sleeping/sitting and it'll just be lying there.
- I don't think they're "cling-on's" as he's quite a short-haired cat and there's no hair in/on the pellets...plus we very rarely see them 'attached'.
- It doesn't look to be constipation as they're normal consistency.
- If it's anxiety then I don't know what we do different - think we're a caring household and he's had 18mths to settle in...plus it's getting worse.

The only other symptom is that he seems very fussy about type of litter - tried all sorts - and having a clean litter. But nothing that stops him using the tray, just he miaows about it a lot.


This is now critical as the wife is pregnant and worried about both toxoplasmata (? spelling) and the baby 'interacting' with poo pellets. If we can't sort this soon we'll need to get rid of him...which neither I nor our son want to do.

Edit: Was mentioned to the vet last year by my wife - they were dismissive (didn't really investigate) and just suggested anxiety.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I think your first move is to have him checked over by your vet.
If he is unaware that he has pooped then there may be an issue which needs attention. ,I'm sure others will be along soon,
I really hope you can get this sorted for him as I'm sure he will be just as upset about this as you are.Let us know how you get on.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@Martin-W 
Hi,
I agree with Buffie. I might see another vet though if your vet was dismissive.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I see you have edited your post to add that your cat was seen by a vet last year who dismissed it as "behavioural" surely if he is unaware that he is leaving bits of poo where he is sleeping /sitting it isn't behavioural.
I agree with @Summercat you need to ask for a second opinion.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Martin-W - I agree with buffie your cat's behaviour is very unlikely to be behavioural if he is unaware he is dropping pellets of poo.

Dropping raisin sized pellets of poo can be due to incomplete evacuation of the bowel, which is a form of constipation / bowel dysfunction.

The raisin pellets reach the lower part of the rectum but are not bulky enough for the bowel to expel them in one poo. In these circumstances the cat is unaware there are still small pellets in the rectum, so he leaves the litter tray thinking he has finished, and later, perhaps when he's moving around, the pellets may be involuntarily dislodged out of the rectum..

To resolve the problem it would be a good idea to review your cat's diet, with a view to improving bowel function. I would cut out all dry food from his diet (as it can cause constipation for some) and feed him a good quality wet food diet, adding a little water to his meals for added moisture.

You should then see some improvement in bowel function on the 100% wet food diet but if there is still a problem, you can add half a teaspoon of cooked mashed butternut squash or cooked mashed sweet potato to his meals to increase the fibre content. (Fresh Butternut Squash and Sweet Potato can be bought from supermarkets).

I cook up butternut squash in bulk and store it in ice cube trays, freeze it and defrost as required, to add to my cats' food.


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## Martin-W (Feb 18, 2018)

Thanks all for the replies, especially the detail from chillminx (you may be right about the diet / bowel disorder thing...fits the profile), and sorry for not getting back sooner...we've been floored with cold/flu most of the week.

Frequency had dropped off this week...right up to today, when our lad found a pellet (on the windowsill) the hard way. So I'm now taking the cat to the vets on Tuesday (and not taking 'behavioural' for an answer), but looks like he's on final warning by the wife.

One other (silly?) thought, if I'm not anthropomorphosising him too much...some of the time it appears to be because I've not cleaned his litter tray out quick enough...could he be trying to hold it in and failing?!? The pellets have definitely been more frequent over winter...guessing he doesn't like pooing outside when it's 0 degrees C!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi @Martin-W, sorry to hear you have been unwell. Hope you are feeling better. 

I am hoping the "final warning" from your wife was not serious! I trust no drastic action will be considered until everything possible has been tried to resolve this problem first.

The main thing is altering your cat's diet to wet food only and adding a little water to it.

No, you are definitely not "anthropomorphising' in suggesting he may be holding in his poo rather than use a tray that's not clean. The fact is that cats like a clean litter tray.

An adult cat cat should always, always, always have at least 2 large trays. The reason why is because many cats prefer to pee in one tray and poo in another tray. Some cats won't poo in a tray that has pee in it. Instead some will use the floor. Your cat is being very respectful of you in not using the floor. He should get top marks for that.

The trays should be situated apart, preferably in different rooms, in quiet areas for the cat's privacy. If they are covered trays ensure the roof is high enough for an adult cat to squat comfortably to poo, and please remove the door flap permanently because cats do not like being totally enclosed when they are at toilet.

Use a clumping litter (it keeps fresher in the tray than non-clumping) and when possible remove poos soon after they have been deposited. The plant based clumping litters are very well liked by cats, e.g. Cats Best Oko Plus, Worlds Best, Maizy, Greenwoods, Super Benek. So I would go for one of those.

I think you may have identified the cause of the constipation - he does not like using a dirty litter tray and understandably doesn't want to poo outdoors when it's very cold. So he retains his poo. The longer it sits in the bowel the more moisture is absorbed from the bowel and the drier the stools become. The drier they are the harder it is to defecate.

Please let us know if making the changes, as above, helps. Thanks


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## Martin-W (Feb 18, 2018)

Thanks CM...I thought it was a silly theory, looks like it may not be (although this still happens with a clean tray, so definitely not the whole story).

2 trays - not practical, I'm afraid - not got a huge house and he's a pet, not the focus of the house. I have to be honest, I've never heard of that before either - all of mine and my wife's cats when we were kids growing up just did their business outside, we didn't have litter trays at all in either house...and none of our friends who have cats have 2 trays either...some don't have any*.

And to be fair, during the spring/summer/autumn our cat mostly ignored his tray...we sort-of hoped that would be that after he'd settled in last winter...but he's clearly a fair-weather pooper! 


As for 'last chance' - while the risk of T-gondii infection (having done some research) is actually pretty small, the consequences right now are disastrous (there's also some background I'm not prepared to go into), so whilst I don't want to get rid of him I'm not going to gainsay my wife either.



* Could that be the answer...nudge him into going outside regardless?!?


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Martin-W said:


> *2 trays - not practical, I'm afraid - not got a huge house and he's a pet, not the focus of the house. I have to be honest, I've never heard of that before either - all of mine and my wife's cats when we were kids growing up just did their business outside, we didn't have litter trays at all in either house...and none of our friends who have cats have 2 trays either...some don't have any*.*
> 
> * Could that be the answer...nudge him into going outside regardless?!?


It doesnt have to be a large house to accommodate 2 litter trays all it takes is a bit of imagination and the acceptance that any animal we care for has to have its needs met not much to ask really.
I don't understand the concept of cat ownership where litter trays are not provided , apart from forcing a cat out into all weather to pee/poo just where does all this poo end up


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## Martin-W (Feb 18, 2018)

As fertiliser?!?

Cat's are outdoor creatures naturally...you could equally say I don't understand all these people trying to keep their poor pets indoors.

I'm grateful for the advice...but please don't force a current fad (let's be clear here!) for pandering to a pet's every whim onto anyone wandering onto the forum. I had 4 cats in my time growing up and no litter trays. My parents have since had 4 more and no litter trays. My best friend and his family have 3 currently (and have lost 3)...again, no trays. In every case the pets are/were loved, cherished and were very healthy/happy.


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## SpringDance (Mar 18, 2016)

Martin-W said:


> As fertiliser?!?
> 
> Cat's are outdoor creatures naturally...you could equally say I don't understand all these people trying to keep their poor pets indoors.
> 
> I'm grateful for the advice...but please don't force a current fad (let's be clear here!) for pandering to a pet's every whim onto anyone wandering onto the forum. I had 4 cats in my time growing up and no litter trays. My parents have since had 4 more and no litter trays. My best friend and his family have 3 currently (and have lost 3)...again, no trays. In every case the pets are/were loved, cherished and were very healthy/happy.


And you don't mind that your cat does his business in people's gardens?!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Martin-W said:


> As fertiliser?!?
> 
> Cat's are outdoor creatures naturally...*you could equally say I don't understand all these people trying to keep their poor pets indoors*.
> 
> I'm grateful for the advice...but please don't force a current fad (let's be clear here!) for pandering to a pet's every whim onto anyone wandering onto the forum. I had 4 cats in my time growing up and no litter trays. My parents have since had 4 more and no litter trays. My best friend and his family have 3 currently (and have lost 3)...again, no trays. In every case the pets are/were loved, cherished and were very healthy/happy.


Cat sh*t does not make fertilizer all it does is lie there in flowerbeds/vegetable plots/on grass or in childrens sandpits not nice for anyone to have to deal with especially if you don't own a cat.
As for keeping a cat indoors or cat proofed garden this was never mentioned by anyone but now that you have I think they should be kept safe from the dangers out there.
The world has changed for everyone ( that includes our pets too) in the last 20/30 years, so what was acceptable then is no longer considered to be in their best interests .
If you don't want to take the advice given then that is up to you but litter trays/cat proofing etc isn't a "current fad" it is a realisation that in the past pets of all kinds were not always being given the care they deserve .


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Martin-W - hopefully when you sort out his diet for him it will deal with the incomplete evacuation/constipation problem and he will find it easier to defecate normal stools (firm, formed sausage shapes to be exact )

I would never take away his only indoor litter tray, but if you want to encourage him to toilet outdoors you will need to provide either a ready-made waterproof outdoor litter tray or else make a specially dug over area of the garden for him to use as a latrine.

The outdoor latrine would require you to scoop the poop and bin it every week (just as one would with dog poo) or the latrine will soon become unhygienic and unpleasant for the cat to use, and smelly for the humans to be around.

Cat poo left in the soil takes over 6 months to decompose - I am a keen gardener and believe me I know these things, LOL. So one absolutely can't just leave it to break down naturally in the soil if one wants a garden that is pleasant to use, hygienic and safe for kids.

Alternatively if you don't want an outdoor latrine in a flowerbed you could provide a waterproof second tray outdoors. Naturally it would need scooping and cleaning just as often as the indoor tray but he might find it more tolerable to use in cold or wet weather than an exposed latrine in a flowerbed. Also the litter in a waterproof tray will be easier to move around than frozen compacted soil.

I recommend standing an outdoor tray on hard standing in a sheltered area. Also it is best to put it away in a garage, shed, or bring indoors at night when your cat is shut in, as this will avoid the risk of slugs getting into the tray.

These are the outdoor waterproof trays to which I refer:

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_litter_litter_boxes/outdoor_cat_trays/588901


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

chillminx said:


> @Martin-W - hopefully when you sort out his diet for him it will deal with the incomplete evacuation/constipation problem and he will find it easier to defecate normal stools (firm, formed sausage shapes to be exact )
> 
> I would never take away his only indoor litter tray, but if you want to encourage him to toilet outdoors you will need to provide either a ready-made waterproof outdoor litter tray or else make a specially dug over area of the garden for him to use as a latrine.
> 
> ...


As always @chillminx a very detailed and informative reply but sadly I would hazard a guess it will fall on deaf ears.
If the OP cant see the logic in providing 1/2 trays indoors I doubt whether he will be willing to build and keep clean an out door litter tray ,after all cat poo is only fertilizer


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@buffie - it saddens me to say you are probably right .  All I can do is try and explain patiently and clearly how to resolve a problem and hope the person will take the advice on board. If the advice is rejected I get depressed because I worry about the welfare of the cat.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

chillminx said:


> @buffie - it saddens me to say you are probably right .  All I can do is try and explain patiently and clearly how to resolve a problem and hope the person will take the advice on board. *If the advice is rejected I get depressed because I worry about the welfare of the cat*.


There are none so blind as those who will not see


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## Martin-W (Feb 18, 2018)

What a lovely person you are buffie!  I come in here looking for advice, you patronise me and tell me what I HAVE to do, and then get offended when I call you out on your approach. Maybe re-read your posts and the way you come across, then look in the mirror, eh?

CM - thanks again for the detailed advice, it is well-taken here, even if I'm not 100% sure how to deal with it right now. I had been looking into both your suggested outdoor solutions over the weekend already, so good to know I'm on the right lines. Don't think we'll be getting rid of the indoor tray, just want to give him other options.

Went to the vets this morning...
- he was almost completely dismissive of the T-gondii risk to my wife, which isn't especially helpful to me/us.
- he wants to 'start' with the medical possibilities (considering behavioural after eliminating everything else), and we've got a fibre supplement to give to the cat. He also concurred with removing the dry food for a while, so thanks to whoever suggested that.
- beyond that he didn't have a lot of advice, which is frustrating...came away feeling like he saw this as a bit of a waste of his time (or something he can milk for fees for a while), so that's two vets that don't seem bothered...

...so I'm feeling rather stuck now. And worried...


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Why not follow the vet's advice for a while, add some butternut squash or pumpkin to his food ( cat, not vet ! ) and see iff that solves the problem ?
As the infection risk to your wife is presumably by direct contact with the faeces extra hygiene measures shouldkeep her safe - obviously being on the look out for these 'nuggets' , disposing of them down the toilet , disinfection of the area and wearing gloves for all handling of litter and waste. Of course if you're around you can do it. 
I hope these measures help, please keep us posted.
I can sympathise as I have an old cat using a litter tray and 2 dogs who regard her offerings as highly prized treats :Vomit :Vomit I have to race them to the tray whenever there are sounds of activity therein , keeping me fit I guess !


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Martin, thank you, I am glad if my advice was useful  

Can I suggest it might not be the case that the vet regards the poo problem as minor (or a waste of his time), but perhaps more that he sees it as a bowel management matter, hence the provision of a fibre supplement, and the advice to discontinue the dry food. 

With cats (humans too) I have often found bowel or gut problems can be managed successfully through practical changes such as diet, adding supplements, increasing fluid intake etc. Exploratory investigations of the bowel (e.g. x-rays, ultra sound etc) and/or medicines may not be needed, and may only be considered by the vet if the problem is unresponsive to the change in diet, added fibre etc. 

Could I ask which fibre supplement the vet has given you? It is worth mentioning that if it is a dry supplement (such as psyllium husk) it is important to add plenty of extra water to his wet food to fully hydrate the fibre. Otherwise he could become more constipated. 

I sympathise with your concerns about your wife's health during her pregnancy. I agree it is a time to be ultra cautious with hygiene in the home. Although the risk of catching T-gondii from handling cat faeces is very low, the NHS does advise that pregnant women should avoid emptying trays, or handling cat faeces, but have someone else in the home do the task. If this is not always possible then they should use disposable rubber gloves.

I do feel hopeful that your cat's bowel problem can be managed. Please let us know how things go.


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## Martin-W (Feb 18, 2018)

Quick update (CM - just seen your post above)

- He's been on Fibor (looks like diced twigs) for about 4 weeks now, and it does seem to have helped.
- I've been religious with his litter tray, but since the weather's improved he's not used it much.
- We've been trying all we can to minimise his anxiety.

...and we went about 2 weeks or so without any pellets!

But we've had two more instances in the last week or so, which weren't helpful. One I stood in while I was ironing in the lounge (he was determined to play with the iron cord, I stopped him, he left me a present which I didn't see), the other we found in the dining room right near where our son was playing.

Given where they were, my wife is now adamant he has to go. Not sure what else to say...


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## Abigail3434 (Mar 15, 2018)

Mine did this, she mixed it up a bit though and started sharting on the carpet
Between a change of food , a water fountain to drink from and a plugin we sorted her.
I was told with me having long hair maybe she's eating a bit of it and it's sort of sticking around in the poo like joining bits together so she feels done but it isnt....
Dunno how legitimate that is though, but I did wake up to her in my bed chewing my hair, was wondering where my split ends where coming from.
I would masssssively advise getting a water fountain my cats drink it dry every other day and we've had no issues since with the pooping. But we did do the food, water and plugin all at the same time desperately trying to sort her so not sure which one did It I hope you sort him 

Oh also has the vet done any bowel checks ect yet? Any tests or does he think he's just getting constipated/behavioural?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Martin-W

Hi Martin and thank you for the update. 

I'm very heartened to hear the good news that there's been a definite improvement since your cat has been on the FIBOR supplement. This does indicate the pellet problem is likely to be due to constipation.

The last two instances of pellet dropping may be a 'hiccup' and it may be a matter now of adjusting how much Fibor he has in each meal.

Also, very importantly, ensuring he is getting enough fluids in his diet to hydrate the FIBOR. I advise continuing to keep him off ALL dry food, including dry treats, and adding water to his wet food.

Now he is on FIBOR I would not trust him to drink enough water each day. Cats do not have a high thirst drive (unlike humans and dogs) and it comes naturally to cats as a species to get all (or most) of their fluids in their food.

If you would like to post how much FIBOR per meal you are giving him, and what quantity of wet food you add it to, I may be able to advise you. Or you could discuss it with your vet. 

I do think it would be a shame to give your cat up at this stage when progress has been made to resolve the poo problem. Could your wife be persuaded to allow the treatment another month's trial to see if things can be further improved? These things can take a bit of time to resolve.


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## Martin-W (Feb 18, 2018)

Well, that's that. :Bawling

The (very nice) chap at the cattery has looked after him for the last week since we got back from hols, whilst also enquiring about possible (good) new homes. Yesterday morning I called him and said we couldn't have our cat back, so could he re-home him, please?

Really wish I'd had more time to try and sort him out...but there's other stuff going on at home which I won't detail here...which didn't give me the time or the choice.

Thanks all for the advice and support. I probably won't be back on here for at least a year or two...but I do hope to be back with some good news then...


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

SusieRainbow said:


> Why not follow the vet's advice for a while, add some butternut squash or pumpkin to his food ( cat, not vet ! ) and see iff that solves the problem ?
> As the infection risk to your wife is presumably by direct contact with the faeces extra hygiene measures shouldkeep her safe - obviously being on the look out for these 'nuggets' , disposing of them down the toilet , disinfection of the area and wearing gloves for all handling of litter and waste. Of course if you're around you can do it.
> I hope these measures help, please keep us posted.
> I can sympathise as I have an old cat using a litter tray and 2 dogs who regard her offerings as highly prized treats :Vomit :Vomit I have to race them to the tray whenever there are sounds of activity therein , keeping me fit I guess !


Lol! I have the same problem with Sadie.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm very sad to hear the news @Martin-W, but thank you for letting us know. Hopefully the nice man at the cattery will find him a good home.


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