# what age & When?



## burfy (Mar 8, 2008)

My girls has Started calling , I was told that she should be mated on her third call or does this not matter ?
Also how old would you let your cat be before you let them have kittens ,what is the ideal age ?


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

Hi Karen,
I took Lulu on her 4th call, she was just 12 months, although the stud owner would have taken her at 11 months as she is a big girl. She wasnt losing condition so I held out a little longer.

Is it Luna you are asking for? How old is she?

Jen x


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I wouldn't wait until third call - second is plenty as long as she is at least 8 months (depending on the breed I suppose).

Liz


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

lizward said:


> I wouldn't wait until third call - second is plenty as long as she is at least 8 months (depending on the breed I suppose).
> 
> Liz


She is a british shorthair, I wouldnt want to mate mine at 8 months, I think for a british its too early. Just my opinion,


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## burfy (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi
Yes its Luna I have spoken to the breeder and she said not until she's had her 3rd call , its been 3 weeks since her 1st call and she is now on her 2nd .
She's only 91/2mths at the moment
But because of her age she also said we could wait until her 4th but it depends on her and how long she takes to her 3rd call , so hoping she won't call for at least until she's 11 mths .But things never turn out to what you want so just have to see!

Nice to hear what others think about the age thing and when they mate their cats . 
thanks all


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## Alansw8 (May 25, 2008)

My blue girl Mona is on what seems her 10th call, she cetainly has called at least 6 times but i have been trying to hang on as she will be 10 month old end of the month and she is losing some condition but i am still hoping to wait untill she is 11 months.

Belle my silver was mated at 11 months old.

Belle started calling from 7 months while mona was 6 month.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Hiya

I always believe that a cat should be mated at 3 call & age 12 months Plus!

But have since learned better from lots of breeders, if she is big enough and calling alot and healthy, she will still be 12 months old when the kits arrive 

gorgeous looking cats by the way!


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I'd say as long as the girl is a reasonable size & weight, and is in good health, there's no reason not to mate her once she's 9-10 months or so, if she's been calling repeatedly. Leaving them to call for months can cause problems.

I've had a girl mated at just under 10 months, she had 5 kittens and proved to be an excellent mother. She is not a large girl either but then I always feel that smaller girls have a slight advantage when it comes to birthing and rearing kittens.


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## burfy (Mar 8, 2008)

Oh Thanks for that you all have different opions on this but seem to be very simular . Luna 's a biggish girl so I won't worry so much on her age thing then if she has her 3rd call I will probably mate her but I will discuss it further with the breeder as it will be her stud boy I shall be using and she tends to know whats what, but I suppose I just needed to hear this off other breeders just to put my mind at rest.
Thank you all for your advice and reassurance much greatly appreiciated


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

burfy said:


> Oh Thanks for that you all have different opions on this but seem to be very simular . Luna 's a biggish girl so I won't worry so much on her age thing then if she has her 3rd call I will probably mate her but I will discuss it further with the breeder as it will be her stud boy I shall be using and she tends to know whats what, but I suppose I just needed to hear this off other breeders just to put my mind at rest.
> Thank you all for your advice and reassurance much greatly appreiciated


My new girls called Luna to  
What colour are you looking to mate her with? she is gorgeous!


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

My Tonk girl was turning into a constant caller ( she was having a few days break between calls)so I had to mate her earlier than I wanted on her 4th call - she was 9mths old. She delivered 6 kittens on 17th May - unfortunately we lost 1 but she was very small (the kitten, not Rosie). The other 5 are thriving and everything has worked out well.
I had discussions with the stud owner and after a vets examination of Rosie to check her size/weight we went ahead. 

It is always such a hard decision to make. Good luck with it all xx


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Where did this 3 (or 5 ) rule start ? I know why it is perpetuated, but I would be interested to know where it started.

I quite often hear breeders telling others that they have to mate cats before their 3rd call otherwise they will get pyo, as a definite out come, and that just isn't true. Yes, it has happened, but there are alot of other factors that contribute to that outcome. If a cat has a problem that means they are more susceptible to developing pyo, then that will happen at some point, mated or not. From what I have seen, its mainly a familial thing.

Before anyone is persuaded to mate a young queen before they feel it right themselves then they need to do some investigation into the lines behind their queen and consider how they think their queen will cope. Not all really young queens do well with litters. You may not have problems in the queen actually having the litter, but whether she can actually cope with one is another matter. If she has hormonal issues before she is mated those may continue during pregnancy and after birth.

I am not saying that they shouldn't be mated, but there are a lot of other factors to consider, other than x no. of calls.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I think it's just a common sense thing really - not sure why 3 is the magic number though! Obviously it isn't good for any queen to call repeatedly without being mated, it would not happen in the wild after all. Pregnancy is a natural state for a queen.
I agree that the tendency to pyo is often familial and breeders should be aware of their queens' ancestors reproductive history.



Saikou said:


> Where did this 3 (or 5 ) rule start ? I know why it is perpetuated, but I would be interested to know where it started.
> 
> I quite often hear breeders telling others that they have to mate cats before their 3rd call otherwise they will get pyo, as a definite out come, and that just isn't true. Yes, it has happened, but there are alot of other factors that contribute to that outcome. If a cat has a problem that means they are more susceptible to developing pyo, then that will happen at some point, mated or not. From what I have seen, its mainly a familial thing.
> 
> ...


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> I think it's just a common sense thing really - not sure why 3 is the magic number though! Obviously it isn't good for any queen to call repeatedly without being mated, it would not happen in the wild after all. Pregnancy is a natural state for a queen.
> I agree that the tendency to pyo is often familial and breeders should be aware of their queens' ancestors reproductive history.


I don't agree with it being a common sense thing, it is not common sense to mate a 7mth old because they have had more than 3 calls.

Yes in the wild, they would end up pregnant, whether they or their kittens would survive or not is another matter. These constant callers would end up bare pawed and pregnant for most of their not doubt short lives, as constantly being pregnant takes a toll on their bodies and immune systems making them and their kittens increasingly weaker. Maybe thats what nature intended, but then most cat owners prefer to see their cats well into their teens.


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

Obviously some breeders believe in the "3" call rule - this is taken from a breeding contract.

. If for any reason she should prove to be infertile (unable to conceive) after 2 years we will replace her with a kitten of comparable quality as soon as one is available at pet price.
The choice of kitten, or adult breeding queen offered is at the breeders discretion.
This offer only applies where the owner of the queen uses either her own, or our studs, and has let us attempt to get her queen in kitten through our own studs on several occasions.
This is also providing the queen has not been left to call beyond 3 seasons, and has not had hormone treatment to suppress the calls.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

In practice very few breeders would mate their queens at 7 months, but I see no reason not to do it. On another group I've heard of a queen who had a litter at 6 months of age after an accidental mating. She had no problems giving birth or rearing her kittens. This idea that a queen must be at least a year old before mating is a human perception of what's "right" and will not offend anyone, nothing to do with what is actually best for the cat.

With some queens it's probably better to allow them to have 2 or 3 litters fairly quickly, then spay. In any case what's the point in continuing to have litter after litter from the same queen for years? I woudln't want any of my girls to have more than 3 litters.



Saikou said:


> I don't agree with it being a common sense thing, it is not common sense to mate a 7mth old because they have had more than 3 calls.
> 
> Yes in the wild, they would end up pregnant, whether they or their kittens would survive or not is another matter. These constant callers would end up bare pawed and pregnant for most of their not doubt short lives, as constantly being pregnant takes a toll on their bodies and immune systems making them and their kittens increasingly weaker. Maybe thats what nature intended, but then most cat owners prefer to see their cats well into their teens.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

That means nothing, other than the breeder who put that contract together is making sure they put the tighest conditions on the owner possibly can, like also restricting the cat to only going to their or the owners own studs, so they don't find themselves having to replace a breeding queen.

Reading that contract, if you had an infertile queen that called 3 times before they were 6 mths old, if you hadn't put her with your stud or theirs at 6mths , then they have no obligation to provide you with a replacement queen. Nice.

Seeing that just reaffirms my opinion of why this 3 call rule is perpetuated and it has very little to do with the cats interests.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> In practice very few breeders would mate their queens at 7 months, but I see no reason not to do it. On another group I've heard of a queen who had a litter at 6 months of age after an accidental mating. She had no problems giving birth or rearing her kittens.


and I've heard of people that have smoked 30 a day and die in their 90s of old age. Exceptions do not prove a rule.



kozykatz said:


> With some queens it's probably better to allow them to have 2 or 3 litters fairly quickly, then spay. In any case what's the point in continuing to have litter after litter from the same queen for years? I woudln't want any of my girls to have more than 3 litters.


That's great if the breeder is responsible, but all the breeders I have seen repeat this 3 call rule parrot fashion, do not do that, and at 6yrs the queen is still having 2 - 3 litters a year, just skimming the 17 week recommendation.

This "rule" is bandied about and used as an excuse to over breed!!


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

Well, perhaps a better rule would be "no more than 3 litters from any one queen before spaying" 

that might help reduce inbreeding as well :smilewinkgrin:



Saikou said:


> and I've heard of people that have smoked 30 a day and die in their 90s of old age. Exceptions do not prove a rule.
> 
> That's great if the breeder is responsible, but all the breeders I have seen repeat this 3 call rule parrot fashion, do not do that, and at 6yrs the queen is still having 2 - 3 litters a year, just skimming the 17 week recommendation.
> 
> This "rule" is bandied about and used as an excuse to over breed!!


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## burfy (Mar 8, 2008)

The studs a blue so hoping she will have blue , blue-cream girls and Blue & cream boys but who knows ?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

burfy said:


> The studs a blue so hoping she will have blue , blue-cream girls and Blue & cream boys but who knows ?


I do - She's a blue cream is she? You're right if they don't carry, but if they both carry for chocolate then add in lilac and lilac tortie.


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## burfy (Mar 8, 2008)

She will only get the colours I said there is no other colour in the pedigree


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## Eiserblew (Apr 13, 2009)

There may not be any other colours in the pedigree, but theoretically a recessive gene can be carried for generations without being expressed until the right two cats come together. It's not very likely, but it is possible that both parents could be carrying Chocolate, in which case you could end up with Lilacs in there too.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

My girl carries chocolate - she only had a 1 in 16 chance of carrying it - but I got her DNA tested and she does. I luuurve this genetics lark!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

spid said:


> My girl carries chocolate - she only had a 1 in 16 chance of carrying it - but I got her DNA tested and she does. I luuurve this genetics lark!


whrer did you get yuor girl tested? I want to get my girl tested for blue, a boy wayy back is meant to carry it, but I know cats from his line that Do & Dont carry it so Id like to get her checked 

BLue creams are lovely!


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> whrer did you get yuor girl tested? I want to get my girl tested for blue, a boy wayy back is meant to carry it, but I know cats from his line that Do & Dont carry it so Id like to get her checked


You could try this link?

Cat Tests

They're apparently very good.  xx


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Dozymoo said:


> You could try this link?
> 
> Cat Tests
> 
> They're apparently very good.  xx


Yep that's the place - it took about 10 days from posting to get an email result - followed up by letter. Very efficient!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

oooo thanks alot! Ill order it!


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## Eiserblew (Apr 13, 2009)

There's this place too:

CatGENES.org: Fast, Affordable Feline DNA Testing Services

Recommended by the CFA, but I have read a few complaints about them on the net. I suppose that's going to happen to a certain extent with any company...


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Eiserblew said:


> There's this place too:
> 
> CatGENES.org: Fast, Affordable Feline DNA Testing Services
> 
> Recommended by the CFA, but I have read a few complaints about them on the net. I suppose that's going to happen to a certain extent with any company...


ahh already bought the other one now!  thanks though!


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