# can anyone help me try and figure oit how far my cat is? plz



## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

Hi everyone, my cat is a year old and we where looking out for all the tell tail signs of her to have a season as we were told she cant be spayed till she has first season! She never showed any signs and is now pregnant! Anyway she is not a chunky cat, she is very slender but healthy! I noticed over two weeks ago she was pregnant as her belly was poppying out at the sides! She got out of the house twice, two weeks apart, I originally thought she is 5 and a half weeks but I can feel them in her belly I felt the lumps nearly two weeks ago but now she is just really bloated! So I cant make anyrhing out in there now! Her nipples have dark purple almst black rings over them now and she has dried milk on them too, she is still eating alot but she is sleeping alot too and she sems to be pooing alot as well, she has been cleaning all fur from her niple for the last week and is always cleaning her self! Can anyone help in trying to figure out when she might be due plz it would be a big help as I worry about her! She got out the 20th of feb and also the 4th of march which time do u think I should go by with her symptoms? Many thanks and please dont comment if ur just going to tell me I am wrong and she should have been spayed as we already know this! We are just excited for are kitty lilly now. Many thanks kate xxx


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Hi, welcome to the forum. Your best bet is to view this thread...
http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/298452-my-cat-might-pregnant-what-should-i-do.html


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm not going to state the obvious but wonder what vet told you to wait until she'd had a call  
Right: have you felt the kittens move yet? If so, how long ago? 
From the dates she escaped you are looking at late April to early May - two to three weeks. You should be able to feel kittens moving from 7 weeks and gestation is approximately 9 weeks.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

As Lynn has already said.
I worked out dates to be due on 26th april or 8th may.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

The woman we got our cat from told us to wait for her first season to come in and then the vet will spay her I was also told by anothet friend who lives close she was told same thing from out local vet, so she waitied till her cat was 6 months old an when she had her first season then the vet spayed her, is this wrong? I could feel the lumps move over a week ago maybe closer to two weeks ago


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Hi, from what you have said about the signs your cat is displaying, i would think the first date would be the correct one, but after that date did she seem to come into season again? 
Whoever told you that a cat couldnt be spayed until after her first season was wrong, 
The usual time is around 5-6 months old, usually before the first season, but a cat can come into season as early as 4 months
I would take her to the vet just to be sure,and check shes ok
If that date is correct,she should be due around the end of April, 
You could be getting somewhere ready for her to have her babies, 
Al arge cardboard box would be fine ,in a quiet area,away from children or other pets if you have any


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Cats do not need to call or experience motherhood - it's such an old wives tale I am astounded that any vet would recommend such an old idea - and if they did they certainly should have told you to not let her out, and if she got out to catch her before a male got to her, as the only outcome was going to be yet another litter of 'opps' moggy kittens. 

Unfortunately the deed is now done, and my heart sighs yet again, I hope birth is straight forward for yo but just in case it isn't you need to be aware of the possibility of the need for an emergency caesar, so make sure you have the number of a good out of hours vet and the where with all to pay for one, about £600 (even if you have to put it on a credit card).

There are some very helpful stickies at the top of this section that tell you what you need in your birthing kit etc. Any other questions please ask. ANd please, don't let the kittens leave mum until they are at least 10 week sold.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

Yes after the first date she did display signs of her being in season again that is why there is 2 dates but I am more incline to go for first date as well as she had been a horny little bugger all the way through her pregnancy ad when my husband comes home from gym she is very friendly lol she has had a box for over a week now but an hour afrer putting it down she pee ed in it, I washed the covers straight away and gave her fresh ones, she wont let us pick her up anymore and crys if we do, lilly is our only pet so she has all the attention


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## HoneyFern (Aug 27, 2009)

I think people get confused between cats and dogs as with dogs you usually have to wait for a season (not sure if this is still the 'rule'). Many breeders get their cats done young, at about 12weeks while most vets advise 22weeks.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Nope, no need to wait for dogs to have a season either.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

Could she have them earlier than 9 weeks? Does that happen?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

katemac said:


> Hi everyone, my cat is a year old and we where looking out for all the tell tail signs of her to have a season as we were told she cant be spayed till she has first season!
> <snip>


What country are you in? That would be extraordinary not to say reckless advice for a vet to give in the UK.

If she got out on the 20th of Feb then she is due on or about April 25th.

Check with your vet as to how soon after kittening they will spay her, and make absolutely sure she doesn't go out again before she is spayed. There are several reasons for this:


she might have the kittens somewhere outside
she might have an accident, and if you have tiny kittens they need hand-feeding every 2 hours
she might get pregnant again whilst nursing her kittens

Her kittens should all be neutered as soon as the vet will do it. If they start muttering about '6 months old' ring round for a more up-to-date vet. You don't say if you are going to look for homes for them or not, but if you are you need to make sure they go with the right advice.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

katemac said:


> Could she have them earlier than 9 weeks? Does that happen?


If she did they most probably wouldn't survive.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

katemac said:


> Could she have them earlier than 9 weeks? Does that happen?


The outlook for kittens more than a few days premature is grim.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I had a litter born at 58 days and only half the litter survived.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

katemac said:


> Could she have them earlier than 9 weeks? Does that happen?


It does - but it normally means there is a problem - my Birman's first litter came at 59 days - one kitten had died inside her and was going manky - the other two were born but were very tiny 54g and 56g each we were very lucky that they survived, but it was touch and go for a while.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

this is a pic of one of her nipples not the biggest of them but she wouldn't let me hold her for long lol


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

katemac said:


> this is a pic of one of her nipples not the biggest of them but she wouldn't let me hold her for long lol


That is a bigish nips,usually their that small you have a job finding them


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

they are easy to find now as they are a lot bigger and she has taken most of the fur from them now she has dried milk on them a lot now I would say the past week I have noticed it


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

katemac said:


> they are easy to find now as they are a lot bigger and she has taken most of the fur from them now she has dried milk on them a lot now I would say the past week I have noticed it


Well alls I know is that they will come when they come.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

katemac said:


> Could she have them earlier than 9 weeks? Does that happen?


Just struck me - got a specific reason for asking, or is this simply curiosity?


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

am just trying to cover all the basics as this if first time I have had a pregnant pet and as I am not fully sure when she is due I wanted to know if she did go early if her kittens would be ok


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> That would be extraordinary not to say reckless advice for a vet to give in the UK.
> 
> Her kittens should all be neutered as soon as the vet will do it. If they start muttering about '6 months old' ring round for a more up-to-date vet. You don't say if you are going to look for homes for them or not, but if you are you need to make sure they go with the right advice.


That would be extraordinary and dangerous advice indeed.  This veterinarian really should be reported if that is in fact true.

Now that you have committed your cat to having these kittens, you do need to make sure they are not re-homed too early and are spayed/neutered so this insidious cycle is not allowed to continue.

Suggest you put aside a good chunk of cash just in case she needs an emergency c-section as well as any other thing that can go wrong. Doubt breeding is covered in your insurance plan


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Can I ask if your cat has even seen a vet and had it's vaccinations and been wormed etc as you make it sound like you took the word of the woman you got her from and your friend that the vet wouldn't spay until after her first season.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

why are people so negative about cats having kittens? its nature? if u all had ur way and every cat was spayed then we wouldn't have these gorgeous house cats! and then cats would die out? I love my cat and I know a lot of people that have cats and feel the same way! as long as u don't let ur cat continuously have litters I don't understand ur problem? as long as u find loving homes for them and they are looked after? if people spayed their cats all time u wouldn't have your cats?i can see where some people are coming from but some people are straight on the defensive!! spay your cat before the babys are born.... you should have spayed your cat before hand... I know this I don't want people commenting and being negative I have only asked what I need to look out for and how far she may be

sorry about this message I have had a lot of private messages from people of late


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

So the plot thickens.....


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

what do u mean?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

katemac said:


> why are people so negative about cats having kittens? its nature? if u all had ur way and every cat was spayed then we wouldn't have these gorgeous house cats! and then cats would die out? I love my cat and I know a lot of people that have cats and feel the same way! as long as u don't let ur cat continuously have litters I don't understand ur problem? as long as u find loving homes for them and they are looked after? if people spayed their cats all time u wouldn't have your cats?i can see where some people are coming from but some people are straight on the defensive!! spay your cat before the babys are born.... you should have spayed your cat before hand... I know this I don't want people commenting and being negative I have only asked what I need to look out for and how far she may be
> 
> *sorry about this message I have had a lot of private messages from people of late*


From members of this forum? It is necessary for you to have made 25 + posts for that to happen.
People are against the breeding of moggies because there are so many in shelters and cats that are just let out to mate with any random tom are open to all kinds of diseases. Asking, as you have, about an accidentally pregnant cat, you are bound to get this type of response but if anyone is openly abusive towards you that will be dealt with.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

As mintymaude asks have she been vac'd and seen by a vet xx


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

she was vaccinated around 11 weeks she is not due for her boosters till end of may


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

Pop a belly pic up, let's take a peek.... 

No one is against cat breeding just moggy breeding, but I promise you the average pet keeper hasn't the first clue about costs and diseases, please look up my recent posts and you will see what can and does go wrong and We Love BSH she had a bad experience too.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

katemac said:


> why are people so negative about cats having kittens? its nature? if u all had ur way and every cat was spayed then we wouldn't have these gorgeous house cats! and then cats would die out? I love my cat and I know a lot of people that have cats and feel the same way! as long as u don't let ur cat continuously have litters I don't understand ur problem? as long as u find loving homes for them and they are looked after? if people spayed their cats all time u wouldn't have your cats?i can see where some people are coming from but some people are straight on the defensive!! spay your cat before the babys are born.... you should have spayed your cat before hand... I know this I don't want people commenting and being negative I have only asked what I need to look out for and how far she may be
> 
> sorry about this message *I have had a lot of private messages from people of late*


How, via one of your aliases? You don't have enough posts on 'this' ID.

It might be a good idea for you to take a little trip to your local cat rescue. That might give you some insight as to why your cat should have been spayed before having kittens.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

TOBY TYLER why would u message me telling me I am a certifiable idiot? that is just rude! I thought these site and forums are to help people? not be rude, its upset me that I have come on here to to ask people some advise and then u speak to me like that?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

katemac said:


> why are people so negative about cats having kittens? its nature? if u all had ur way and every cat was spayed then we wouldn't have these gorgeous house cats! and then cats would die out? I love my cat and I know a lot of people that have cats and feel the same way! as long as u don't let ur cat continuously have litters I don't understand ur problem? as long as u find loving homes for them and they are looked after? if people spayed their cats all time u wouldn't have your cats?i can see where some people are coming from but some people are straight on the defensive!! spay your cat before the babys are born.... you should have spayed your cat before hand... I know this I don't want people commenting and being negative I have only asked what I need to look out for and how far she may be
> 
> sorry about this message I have had a lot of private messages from people of late


So basically you are actually saying that you wanted your cat to have kittens anyway. So why not be straight and say that? What bugs people is the number of cats in rescue (and ped cats only make up 3% of the cat population and very few ever end up in rescue - unless they are from a byb - so that's not a route to follow) - now, I don't have problem if you do it properly, you test your cat for genetic diseases you test the male for genetic diseases and you learn all about birthing and pregnancy and keep the kittens for a good long while and let them go to their new homes vaccinated and preferably neutered.

Looks like your cat is a long haired black? Long hair is a recessive gene so it is very likely that the dad wasn't long haired or carried the gene - so you will probably end up with black short haired kittens. Unfortunately these are the hardest to find homes for. If yo are lucky she will have mated with a tabby and then you could get tabbies, easier to find homes for, if you are very lucky then she may have mated a ginger boy, in which case you can have torties girls (now some love them, some hate them) and black or red boys. Reds are slightly easier to find homes for. But kitten season in beginning to get in its swing and very soon thousands of kittens are going to be flooding the market and that makes finding homes so much harder.

My SIL let her moggy breed, believes all cats should have one litter (mad woman) all kittens were plain tabbies, no white and she still had two at 16 weeks as no-one wanted them - finally she palmed them off onto another family member - the trouble was there were loads of plain tabbies in the market at that point. Luckily she didn't end up having to take them to rescue but many, many people do. Or dump the pregnant cat on the rescue. And that's why tempers run high.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

katemac said:


> TOBY TYLER why would u message me telling me I am a certifiable idiot? that is just rude! I thought these site and forums are to help people? not be rude, its upset me that I have come on here to to ask people some advise and then u speak to me like that?


I'd LOVE to know how you're receiving PM's. You don't have enough posts


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

You say she was vaccinated at 11 weeks but she should have had two vaccinations as the initial course and if she hasn't had the two then she and her kittens could be at serious risks of contracting several very nasty illnesses.

If you want to be a Moggy breeder then at least be honest and read up and take some steps to ensure your cats safety in that if you let her out in call then keep her in until you know for certain that she is or isn't pregnant so you have firm dates to work from not just a vague idea, but yes please go visit your local cat rescue and see all the cats they have in for rehoming that have been given up or abandoned because people are always willing to take on a cute little kitten but when that kitten grows up and the novelty wears off that's when they get kicked out or given up and then left to languish in rescue centres desperately looking for homes but not always getting them because people will take a cute fluffy kitten on instead.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

my cat was going to get spayed as I was told it was the best thing to do, and as this is my first cat I just listened, was also told to wait till my cat had her first season and then to take her in to be spayed, I was told this my 2 friends who have had their cats spayed at our loacal vet and also I phoned them the receptionist gave me the same advice so as I have never had a cat before I accepted this information, I looked out for my cat to come in to season but it was missed as there wasn't many signs and at the time she got out was the time I was in hospital. I was there for 2 weeks, and my husband and kids had accidentally left door open to long and she got out, when I noticed it was to late, and I am not going to let her be spayed while pregnant as I don't think it is right, I was told once the kittens start on solid food I can then get her spayed, which she will be doing!! I am not out to make money and I am not trying to breed my moggie cat, it was a genuine mistake, we will try and find good homes for them, and if there is any left that wont go, then I would keep it I would never throw it out, and that to would be spayed, I know people out there mis treat animals, and I know there is a lot of animals that neeed homes, but I am not a nasty person and my cat is not miss treated and is very much loved an looked after 

thank you to the people who have given me some useful info today


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

If you did want your cat to breed, like it seems, what in particular made you want to breed her? Her colour is undesirable to most people, as they want a "colourful" kitten, even if she has a nice personality, this may not be passed on to the kittens, as I learnt recently, the father's genetics has more of an affect on the kittens' personality than the mother's. Also, if your cat doesn't have a nice personality, what if she DOES pass that onto her kittens? Then that'll be more cats left in rescues because owners couldn't deal with them.

I've only skimmed through the thread, but what are your plans for your cat and her kittens?

I'd strongly recommend spaying the kittens before they leave, because even though this happened to your cat, what if the person you give a kitten to decides to breed it repeatedly for money? The toll breeding takes on both males and females is devastating to their health, which is why breeders usually only breed once a year. But imagine breeding constantly, it'd be a nightmare for them. Plus it gives you peace of mind then, because people may say they'll spay and neuter them but you have no guarantees.

That's my 2 pence anyway.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

dougal22 said:


> I'd LOVE to know how you're receiving PM's. You don't have enough posts





katemac said:


> my cat was going to get spayed as I was told it was the best thing to do, and as this is my first cat I just listened, was also told to wait till my cat had her first season and then to take her in to be spayed, I was told this my 2 friends who have had their cats spayed at our loacal vet and also I phoned them the receptionist gave me the same advice so as I have never had a cat before I accepted this information, I looked out for my cat to come in to season but it was missed as there wasn't many signs and at the time she got out was the time I was in hospital. I was there for 2 weeks, and my husband and kids had accidentally left door open to long and she got out, when I noticed it was to late, and I am not going to let her be spayed while pregnant as I don't think it is right, I was told once the kittens start on solid food I can then get her spayed, which she will be doing!! I am not out to make money and I am not trying to breed my moggie cat, it was a genuine mistake, we will try and find good homes for them, and if there is any left that wont go, then I would keep it I would never throw it out, and that to would be spayed, I know people out there mis treat animals, and I know there is a lot of animals that neeed homes, but I am not a nasty person and my cat is not miss treated and is very much loved an looked after
> 
> thank you to the people who have given me some useful info today


Again, you are getting PM's how 

Are you by any chance a returning member who's taken offence at one of TT's 'shoot from the hip' posts and now you're accusing her of sending 'nasty private messages'??


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

The kittens should suckle for a minimum of 8 weeks, and the kittens not be rehomed until 13 weeks (a week after their 2nd jab) and mum will feed for all that time so I would aim to spay her then. 8 week old kittens have lost their natural immunity from mum by this week by rehoming them then you are putting them at risk and they miss out on fundamental developmental stages from being removed from mum and litter mates too soon, an to be honest they are just too tiny for family life at that age.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

than you lucy, I was told kittens are ready to leave at 8 weeks, but now u have told me that I will look into it, I I will make sure all kittens before going to their new homes are vaccinated, and I never said I was having pms on this site I said i have had messages recently, I got that message on reputations received from toby tayler


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

katemac said:


> than you lucy, I was told kittens are ready to leave at 8 weeks, but now u have told me that I will look into it, I I will make sure all kittens before going to their new homes are vaccinated, and I never said I was having pms on this site I said i have had messages recently, I got that message on reputations received from toby tayler


I hope that you take the advice on board about your kittens being rehomed at an appropriate age, being fully vacc'd and the mother spayed.

Re: rep messages. Forum rules do not allow that you discuss rep, red or green. Members can leave rep as they wish.

FYI : http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/162548-repping-members.html


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

katemac said:


> than you lucy, I was told kittens are ready to leave at 8 weeks, but now u have told me that I will look into it, I I will make sure all kittens before going to their new homes are vaccinated, and I never said I was having pms on this site I said i have had messages recently, I got that message on reputations received from toby tayler


in theory a 6 week old kitten on solids would physically do OK (not great) if rehomed but 13 weeks they have learnt it all, are big and cheeky enough to take on the world, their adult cats and dogs.. and being jabbed it gives you peace of mind that you have given them the best start possible. Stick around, you will need Rhino skin and take the time to read some past posts, you will receive valuable info.. you just have to accept that most on here are pedigree breeders all breeding with a goal in mind, with a breeding plan with health tested cats so opinions are strong...


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

thanks lucy, I was just getting upset as I am new to this forum, only joined a few hours ago and as soon as I had posted people where just not nice lol I only needed a bit of advice! as I know some people don't care about their cats and leave them to it, am not like that, that's why I have decided to come on a forum to get as much info as possible to help me look after my cat and her kittens, I will stick around as I am going to read around some posts and get more info to help me,thanks again


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Unneutered toms are very territorial and fight amongst each other, which is a great way of transmitting feline AIDS and feline viral leukemia, both of which are lethal. And as a fair percentage of unneutered cats are feral or semi-feral, the number of infected cats is relatively high among unneutered cats.
So there is a chance your cat has been infected with one of these diseases through mating.

For as long as I can remember, rescues have been full to the brim with moggies, adults as well as kittens, and many of them do not find a home and spend all their life in a rescue. So there is little chance of people who want a moggy ever having a problem finding one. So even if you can find homes for your kittens, they are usurping the place of rescue cats that could have found their forever home with someone who takes one of your kittens.

Nowadays, things are even worse, as there is a recession on, and people finding it hard to make ends meet tend to dump their cats left, right and centre. So the number of cats in rescues and on the streets is increasing, and the rescues are struggling more than ever for space and funds.

Apart from that, leaving a female cat unneutered increases her chance of uterine infections and breast cancer. This is why breeders only breed their queens for a fairly short period before neutering them. If they didn't, the health risks would be far too great.

I quite understand you were not aware of all these things, but the people who react to your posts are, which is why we are opposed to breeding moggies. It simply is not in the cats' best interest. Far from it, it is putting them at risk, and unnecessary risk at that.

I have lost several rescue cats to untreatable diseases they would not have had if the parent cats had been healthy and in a good condition, but with uncontrolled breeding (letting a cat in heat roam and mate with just any tom) you simply never know the extent of the health risks to mother and kittens. In my case, one of the cats died at 10 months, and another at 2 years, and it broke my heart to see them waste away and be unable to do anything to save them.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Not only are there lots of cats and kittens in rescues, some of them will be euthanased because they don't get a home fast enough. Each home one of your kittens gets could have homed a cat from a rescue.

Many rescues in the UK are no kill, and they have very few spaces even for cats in great need.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

katemac said:


> thanks lucy, I was just getting upset as I am new to this forum, only joined a few hours ago and as soon as I had posted people where just not nice lol I only needed a bit of advice! as I know some people don't care about their cats and leave them to it, am not like that, that's why I have decided to come on a forum to get as much info as possible to help me look after my cat and her kittens, I will stick around as I am going to read around some posts and get more info to help me,thanks again


The thing is, many people will feel like you don't care because you just let her out and then "left her to it" for weeks now. You knew when she got out, if you didn't want her to get pregnant, even though you should've already had her spayed, she still should've been to the vet the next day.

We try to hold our tongue, but sometimes it's just too hard, you're probably the 10th person who's been on here asking for help in the past 4 weeks and this will continue for the next few months. With an average of 4 kittens per litter, then by the time kitten season is over this year, just on this forum we will have seen almost 160 accidental kittens born, and we're just a fraction of the population. I'm sure you can understand why this is upsetting, because a large proportion of those kittens will end up in rescues, taking a place of an elderly cat who needs another chance in a home and instead they'll be put down to make room for the "new and cute" kitten.

But, it's a good thing that you're trying to learn all you can, many people will just think cats can do it alone with no problem, sometimes just having a watchful eye can pay off during complications.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Katemac you didn't answer my question that I asked that she had both vaccinations when little ?

Also if you read your posts back then one minute you are saying it's an accident and the you are getting defensive about people *wanting* to breed moggies, and that is why people maybe a little confused as to your motives, but I would also ring around vets in your area and register with a different one as one that tells you your cat needs a season before being spayed is not a good vet.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

this is my lilly, love her very much!! thank you for the advice on the cat diseases, when she goes in to be spayed I will ask the vets on this and see if I can have her tested, the vaccinations she had when she was 11 weeks old what where they for? where any of them for any of these illnesses u have just told me about? she is due boosters at end of may which I think her kittens will only be a few weeks old, is she still ok to have them while she is still feeding?


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Lucy1012 said:


> in theory a 6 week old kitten on solids would physically do OK (not great) if rehomed but 13 weeks they have learnt it all, are big and cheeky enough to take on the world, their adult cats and dogs.. and being jabbed it gives you peace of mind that you have given them the best start possible. Stick around, you will need Rhino skin and take the time to read some past posts, you will receive valuable info.. you just have to accept that most on here are pedigree breeders all breeding with a goal in mind, with a breeding plan with health tested cats so opinions are strong...


People with rescue cats are just as much opposed to moggy breeding as breeders. It is not a question of just breeding pedigrees, it is a question of there being far more moggies than there are homes for them and the health risks of uncontrolled breeding.

Breeders will extensively health check their cats before mating, and they will also study the blood lines for compatiblity and for the possibility of genetic defects. Moreover, they will know there is a demand for their cats before they breed them. With moggies choosing their own mates, there are no such precautions, and the plight of the rescues is ample proof there are no homes for all these indiscrimnately bred moggies.

I now have 8 cats, all rescues or rehomed, but I could have double, no, ten times that number, and still make little difference to the plight of the cats living out their lives in rescues or on the streets.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

katemac said:


> this is my lilly, love her very much!! thank you for the advice on the cat diseases, when she goes in to be spayed I will ask the vets on this and see if I can have her tested, the vaccinations she had when she was 11 weeks old what where they for? where any of them for any of these illnesses u have just told me about? she is due boosters at end of may which I think her kittens will only be a few weeks old, is she still ok to have them while she is still feeding?


The standard vaccinations are for cat flu, calcivirus and feline parvo. Vaccinations against FIV (feline AIDS) and FeLV (feline leukemia) are not standard.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Please tell me the photo of this slight framed young girl isnt the pregnant cat you need advise with.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

katemac said:


> this is my lilly, love her very much!! thank you for the advice on the cat diseases, when she goes in to be spayed I will ask the vets on this and see if I can have her tested, the vaccinations she had when she was 11 weeks old what where they for? where any of them for any of these illnesses u have just told me about? she is due boosters at end of may which I think her kittens will only be a few weeks old, is she still ok to have them while she is still feeding?


She looks very young in those photos? How old is she now?


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

catcoonz said:


> Please tell me the photo of this slight framed young girl isnt the pregnant cat you need advise with.


GMTA.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

katemac said:


> this is my lilly, love her very much!! thank you for the advice on the cat diseases, when she goes in to be spayed I will ask the vets on this and see if I can have her tested, the vaccinations she had when she was 11 weeks old what where they for? where any of them for any of these illnesses u have just told me about? she is due boosters at end of may which I think her kittens will only be a few weeks old, is she still ok to have them while she is still feeding?


Well if she only had the one and you didn't take her back for the second vaccination 2 weeks later then she won't have the immunity to what they vaccinate for which is feline panleucopaenia virus, feline herpesvirus, and feline calicivirus as for if she can have her booster when feeding I don't know because I'm not a breeder so I would ask your vet but as I said I would get a new vet because yours doesn't seem very hot on cat advice, plus she would need to start the vaccination process again with the two injections two weeks apart as she is not covered.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

she has had the 2 vaccinations from 11 weeks after her second ones we where told to come back yearly for boosters


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

omg, the poor thing, she is only a baby herself, why on earth did you continue with this pregnancy, how is this thinking of your girl.
I hope she will be ok having kittens but in my opinion she is far too small to cope with labour and a litter.

You knew the dates she got out so why didnt you book her in for spaying the next day, you could have prevented all this but no you had to be cruel and continue. If you wanted all along to have kittens from her you could have done the decent thing and waited for her to grow up. 

oh great, i see your in oxfordshire, guess that means more kittens from my rescue will be staying longer.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

I wasn't intending on her having kittens! she got out when I was in hospital! I didn't know she had got out until I noticed her belly! then my husband told me she got out, and yes that is the cat in the pictures, and they where taken when she was 9 months old they are not recent


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

katemac said:


> this is my lilly, love her very much!! thank you for the advice on the cat diseases, when she goes in to be spayed I will ask the vets on this and see if I can have her tested, the vaccinations she had when she was 11 weeks old what where they for? where any of them for any of these illnesses u have just told me about? *she is due boosters at end of may *which I think her kittens will only be a few weeks old, is she still ok to have them while she is still feeding?





katemac said:


> she has had the 2 vaccinations from 11 weeks after her second ones we where told to come back yearly for boosters


She's not even 1 yet and she's having kittens? Shame on you


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

what does GMTA mean


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

A recent photo would help plus if your husband knew of the dates she got out why didnt he take her to be spayed the next day.

Must say i know all the vets in this area and i find it hard to believe any would give bad advise like this.

Can you put a recent photo on here so we can see her.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

shame on me? she is 1 thanks


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

katemac said:


> I wasn't intending on her having kittens! she got out when I was in hospital! I didn't know she had got out until I noticed her belly! then my husband told me she got out, and yes that is the cat in the pictures, and they where taken when she was 9 months old they are not recent


You should've spayed her when she went for her vaccinations, not sure how you can vaccinate but just not spay her? Even at 9 months old, she looks as big as my 5 month old girl and even she's small for her age!

Strongly recommend getting together some money, with that small frame, birth could be very very risky for both mother and kittens.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

I am not going to lie about the advise I was given? the vets is in carterton so maybe u should ring them and tell them that as I have had u all having ago at me tonight, when this is the information I was given from them


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

you cant go on age, surely you can see how slight framed she is.

Carterton is just up the road from me.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

katemac said:


> what does GMTA mean


Look it up on Google.



katemac said:


> shame on me? she is 1 thanks


Absolutely, shame on you. I don't believe that your cat is vaccinated nor do I believe that a qualified vet gave you advice that you are claiming.

Your cat is too young to have a litter. I hope you are prepared to deal with the birth of the kittens and that you have set aside a substantial amount of money should your cat need a c-section.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

Samantha I know and I have put some money aside incase anything goes wrong


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I can tell you with the vet you use a c-section will cost £800, if emergency night time hours you will need £1,000.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

the when, why or how is no longer relevant... and the more defensive the OP has to be the less info we are going to get. We have a very small framed cat with a belly full of paws that needs our help so some lip biting is needed here..

First thing we need a few pics of her as she is today, we can see how she is carrying have a rough guestimate at litter size and look at her build... 

Secondly she needs worming with vet purchased, pregnancy safe products, so vets on Monday please.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

why do u keep saying shame on me? my cat has been vaccinated! I have a little book that has dates she had them? I thought coming on here would be useful and help me look after my cat at this time, but I have been made to be a monster? no wounder there is so many kittens out there as people are prob scared to talk and get info as they get treated like this, I come on for a bit of advise from people who will know abit about cats so I can be prepared, not be made out to be a monster? I wont be using this site anymore and I will be advising other people against it as well, thak you to all who have helped and given me some info to look into


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Of course we will all give advise when the time comes to ensure the safety of this poor girl, but it does need to be said how slight framed she is and a possible c- section cost.

Luckily this person lives near me so if there are any problems and they need help i can nip over and help, everybody knows i will be the first to offer advise but i dont agree she should have kittens being so small.

How is the attitude of you leaving going to help your girl. You obviously need help and advise otherwise you wouldnt have posted. Its up to you if you want to disappear but i would advise staying for your cats sake, we will help you like we always help people but if you look back on other threads, words do need to be said and got off our chests first.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

if you pop a few more posts up, I will PM you my email addy.. but I think sticking about would be beneficial for your girl..


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

katemac said:


> why do u keep saying shame on me? my cat has been vaccinated! I have a little book that has dates she had them? I thought coming on here would be useful and help me look after my cat at this time, but I have been made to be a monster? no wounder there is so many kittens out there as people are prob scared to talk and get info as they get treated like this, I come on for a bit of advise from people who will know abit about cats so I can be prepared, not be made out to be a monster? I wont be using this site anymore and I will be advising other people against it as well, thak you to all who have helped and given me some info to look into


Actually, if people listened to this forum more and just accept their mistakes instead of defending themselves, there wouldn't be as many kittens in this world.

You should stick around if you want to help your cat, and especially try to get in touch with CC as she's a fantastic help in these situations, but she has a lot of rescues needing homes at the moment, that your cat's offspring will be taking homes away from, so I'm sure you understand everyone's frustration.

It's not all going to be rainbows and butterflies, but everyone will gladly help out your cat to make sure she's okay through the ordeal.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Do over 25 posts and i will pm you my mobile number, if your girl needs any help doesnt matter what time of night i will be available to come over and help your girl, ive said my part of what i think.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> The standard vaccinations are for cat flu, calcivirus and feline parvo. Vaccinations against FIV (feline AIDS) and FeLV (feline leukemia) are not standard.


I thought it was FCV (Calicivirus), Cat flu and FeLV (we don't have parvo vaccine over here, at least mine didn't). 

The cat in the pic looks like just a kitten herself - I really hope she isn't pregnant!!


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

I am going to have a look around tomorrow for a new vet I think there is another one close to hear I have just found out there is 2 vets in carterton, so I will ring the other one tomorrow and talk to them about this, as I will be making sure lilly gets the best and is looked after! she is bigger now than when them pics where taken, she has chunked out more now, but to u all she is a small cat which I never though, so I will get all the advise I can from a new vet on all of this


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

Treaclesmum said:


> I thought it was FCV (Calicivirus), Cat flu and FeLV (we don't have parvo vaccine over here, at least mine didn't). QUOTE]
> 
> Nobivac Trio is FCV, FHV & FPLV and then you have the option of FeLv


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

thanks cat an lucy for the help


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

no worries, you could be in for a rough time so grabs CC's offer of help with both hands... She is closer than I, I am in south oxon so a good 45 minute drive not great in an emergency..


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I have been reading all the posts on here, and yes maybe things should have been done differently, but what is the point of going on at katemac,when what is done is done, 
She knows now what she would have been better doing in the first place,and i must say,whenever anyone comes on here asking for advice all they seem to get is a lecture, its too late for that
I think people are going to feel like a criminal ,i have noticed this attitude before,with someone asking for advice and being told over and over what they SHOULD have done
I am sure katemac has got the message, and anyone else who might be looking for advice
Sorry if this upsets some people, but please give them advice and no need to be so harsh


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

Time for eye and nose cleaning chlamydia infected kittens (see even ped breeders it goes wrong) so if you do decide to leave, I wish you the best of luck.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Lucy1012 said:


> no worries, you could be in for a rough time so grabs CC's offer of help with both hands... She is closer than I, I am in south oxon so a good 45 minute drive not great in an emergency..


your still close enough , im 10 minutes away with my driving.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

katemac said:


> why do u keep saying shame on me? my cat has been vaccinated! I have a little book that has dates she had them? I thought coming on here would be useful and help me look after my cat at this time, but I have been made to be a monster? no wounder there is so many kittens out there as people are prob scared to talk and get info as they get treated like this, I come on for a bit of advise from people who will know abit about cats so I can be prepared, not be made out to be a monster? I wont be using this site anymore and I will be advising other people against it as well, thak you to all who have helped and given me some info to look into


Coming on here IS useful, more useful than you may realize.

You don't half know how lucky you are that Catcoonz lives so close to you. Her experience with cats giving birth is vast, and like she said, she is close enough to come over and personally help out, if push comes to shove.
We are all very worried about Lily's health, because she is so small and slender, and the kittens may be way too big for her. 
To us, it is very obvious she never should have been given a chance to get pregnant, and therefore it is hard for us to grasp that this may not be obvious to everyone, or that people will let an unneutered cat go out at the risk of getting pregnant.

It is clear from your posts that you and your husband were not aware of this, but to experienced cat slaves it takes some believing that this level of ignorance is still possible in this day and age.

The reactions you are getting are a result of this disbelief, not in you as a person, but in the blind faith in old wives' tales you, and the situation you and Lily find youself in, represent.

We feel like we have stepped into a tardis and sucked into a time warp..... and you are at the receiving end of our combined shock and confusion.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

I do think when someone is obviously being less than honest, it does raise red flags in addition to the fact that it's an emotional subject to begin with.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

thank you jaycee, I know what I did wrong now as I am a first time cat owner, I took advice from friends and also from a vets receptionist! which as I have been told time an time again tonight I am in the wrong lol I am taking care of her and just need advice on what I need to expect and how I go about things, I will be ringing another local vet tomorrow and try and get in to see them as soon as poss to have her checked over, and after todays research I have also found out that the vet can do an ultrasound to see how far she is so that might help


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

katemac said:


> thank you jaycee, I know what I did wrong now as I am a first time cat owner, I took advice from friends and also from a vets receptionist! which as I have been told time an time again tonight I am in the wrong lol I am taking care of her and just need advice on what I need to expect and how I go about things, I will be ringing another local vet tomorrow and try and get in to see them as soon as poss to have her checked over, and after todays research I have also found out that the vet can do an ultrasound to see how far she is so that might help


So it was the receptionist that gave you the advice, not the vet? I wouldn't go solely on a receptionist's advice, because even though they may know a lot, the vet has done many years of training along with treating the animals.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

An ultra scan will cost you £83, it cant tell you when kittens are due but will hopefully tell you how many.
The problem with scans as ive just found with my queen, its easier to count them earlier in the pregnancy, when they are at a certain size they tend to blend it, but an experienced vet will show you the heartbeats and you will get a general idea of size of kittens. Make sure you mention to the receptionist the booking is for a scan incase they dont keep the equipment at that surgery.

I do think an upto date photo whould be good, will give us an idea aswell.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

toby I have been more than honest in telling u all what is going on! I didn't have to! I told u as much info as there is so I can get best possible help or answer, I didn't want to be made out to be a liar! that's like me not having my kids vaccinated?? lilly is part of our family so she gets treated like it, and I have held my hands up to not having her spayed, as she is my first cat and I was just going on what I have been told on not getting her spayed till her first season, if I was told the right info she would have been spayed a lot earlier and I wouldn't be putting myself on here and getting spoken to like a child


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

katemac said:


> toby I have been more than honest in telling u all what is going on! I didn't have to! I told u as much info as there is so I can get best possible help or answer, I didn't want to be made out to be a liar! that's like me not having my kids vaccinated?? lilly is part of our family so she gets treated like it, and I have held my hands up to not having her spayed, as she is my first cat and I was just going on what I have been told on not getting her spayed till her first season, if I was told the right info she would have been spayed a lot earlier and I wouldn't be putting myself on here and getting spoken to like a child


We really need that photo of the little lady, everyone can give you a little more help then once we know her size. Please can you upload it?


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

cat she has been in her box most of the night so I don't want to disturb her, I will upload a recent pic tomorrow if she stays still long enough lol


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

SamanthaGoosey said:


> So it was the receptionist that gave you the advice, not the vet? I wouldn't go solely on a receptionist's advice, because even though they may know a lot, the vet has done many years of training along with treating the animals.


Receptionists typically don't dispense veterinary advice. Unless this receptionist just fell off the potato truck, she would not have advised such nonsense either.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> Receptionists typically don't dispense veterinary advice. Unless this receptionist just fell off the potato truck, she would not have advised such nonsense either.


Most probably wouldn't risk it either because if they give bad advice, they could lose their job.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

katemac said:


> I am going to have a look around tomorrow for a new vet


I'm sure CC can recommend someone to you, given she lives so close

In regards to keeping the kittens until 12 weeks of age, which not only allows for 2 x vaccinations, microchipping and neutering, there are also emotional and health benefits for the kittens.
FBRL: Resources: How young is too young?


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

maybe receptionists are different in the uk than the us toby? lol am not going to rise to ur silly comments now as it doesn't matter what I write u give a negative comment so am not interested in what u have to say, I have plenty of people on here that are kind enough to have their say and then help! and I thank them, and yes tomorrow I will ask cc to send me her email address and I will contact her through that for any help she can offer me, as I would be very greatful


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## lynnenagle (Mar 15, 2013)

I've had advice of the vet receptionist before when i phoned. She didn't even let me talk to the vet


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## dan138zig (Mar 20, 2010)

katemac said:


> maybe receptionists are different in the uk than the us toby? lol am not going to rise to ur silly comments now as it doesn't matter what I write u give a negative comment so am not interested in what u have to say, I have plenty of people on here that are kind enough to have their say and then help! and I thank them


ha, exactly what I experienced on my thread. surely not a coincidence?


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## lynnenagle (Mar 15, 2013)

katemac said:


> maybe receptionists are different in the uk than the us toby? lol am not going to rise to ur silly comments now as it doesn't matter what I write u give a negative comment so am not interested in what u have to say, I have plenty of people on here that are kind enough to have their say and then help! and I thank them, and yes tomorrow I will ask cc to send me her email address and I will contact her through that for any help she can offer me, as I would be very greatful


You will find there is nearly always negative comments with cat pregnancys. Most of the people on here give some great advice and you just have to try and ignore any rudeness


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lynnenagle said:


> I've had advice of the vet receptionist before when i phoned. She didn't even let me talk to the vet


You wouldn't be very pleased if you were consulting the vet and they went away to talk to someone on the phone...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

katemac said:


> <snip>
> I will make sure all kittens before going to their new homes are vaccinated, and <snip>


And unfortunately they are 13 weeks old when they have had both vaccinations, and if they are black as well harder to find homes for. People often want tiny little kittens far, far too young to be away from home.

BTW they need worming as well, and I hope you don't have any fleas in your house as that would need dealing with as well.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

katemac said:


> <snip>
> I have just found out there is 2 vets in carterton
> <snip>


According to Google there is one just up the road in Burford and another in Minster Lovell as well.

Ring them all, ask them how young they will neuter a kitten as well. A vet that insists on them being 6 months old is old-school.

Lots of information on neutering here:
Policy Statement 1: Timing of neutering

According to this link there is one in Lechlade who does but CC might have local knowledge:
Find an Early Neutering Vet


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

katemac said:


> <snip>
> I have also found out that the vet can do an ultrasound to see how far she is so that might help


In my view an ultrasound is a waste of time and money. It can't change what she is having or when she is having them, you know now that she looks awful immature to be having kittens (rather like a 13-yo girl) so if she is in active labour without producing kittens you need to ring the vets PDQ.

I imagine you know when you were in hospital, if it was more than a couple of nights I expect your husband knows when she got out, you should be able to work out when she is due from that. Pregnancies are usually 65 days, Google for 'cat pregnancy calculator' and you will get the answer.

I'm sure that CC will be able to advice on the vets around you, but whichever one you decide is for you, you need to make sure you know what their out of hours details are. Many vets these days use an out of hours service somewhere completely different, if I was choosing a vet finding one that didn't do that would be part of my criterial.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I am happy to pm you a very good veterinary surgery, sadly i cant post the name and address on here, against rules.

When you mentioned seeing a vet for a scan its sunday today, so phone the vet first thing in the morning and explain you want an ultrascan doing on a pregnant cat, they will even if busy fit you in but the cost will be £83.

I wouldnt ask the receptionist any questions, always speak with the vet, the vet has done all the medical training so the vet knows best.

It would also help me if you could pm me your address, just incase you need me, i dont want to be out at 3am not knowing exactly where you are.
Even if your girl is in her nesting box when you go and offer food and water just take a quick photo, it only takes a second and it doesnt upset them.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

katemac said:


> <snip>
> I will upload a recent pic tomorrow if she stays still long enough lol


That doesn't make sense. If you have a recent photo she can run around as much as she likes while you upload it, her running around only matters if you don't have one from the last month or two and have to take one.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

lynnenagle said:


> I've had advice of the vet receptionist before when i phoned. She didn't even let me talk to the vet


Surely the receptionist is going by the veterinarian's protocol when she is giving you such advice. Don't think it's a whole lot different in the UK vs the US in this regard. And no, a receptionist would not dispense inaccurate and dangerous veterinarian advice and still have a job, sorry.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

katemac said:


> why are people so negative about cats having kittens? its nature? if u all had ur way and every cat was spayed then we wouldn't have these gorgeous house cats!
> <snip>


If we ever reach the situation where the rescues are all empty then yes, we will have to start breeding moggies. I don't think that will ever happen though.

In my view there are only two places to get cats and kittens from:

a rescue, which includes the various breed rescues
from a registered reputable breeder - sadly a number of breeders suspended by the GCCF have simply changed to breeding under another registry with less stringent requirements.


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> According to Google there is one just up the road in Burford and another in Minster Lovell as well.
> 
> Ring them all, ask them how young they will neuter a kitten as well. A vet that insists on them being 6 months old is old-school.
> 
> ...


I think there are still a lot of vet practices that don't do early neutering. We live in a large town in the west midlands and there are 3 practices nearby, I have used 2 for my cats and kittens. I enquired recently about early neutering as it now seems to be common before kittens leave but none will neuter before 6 months and that includes my usual vet who are a national chain.


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## Vikki1985 (Mar 24, 2013)

chloe1975 said:


> I think there are still a lot of vet practices that don't do early neutering. We live in a large town in the west midlands and there are 3 practices nearby, I have used 2 for my cats and kittens. I enquired recently about early neutering as it now seems to be common before kittens leave but none will neuter before 6 months and that includes my usual vet who are a national chain.


I live in a small town in the south and there are 4 within 20 miles! It's helped me out


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I will pm you with a great vet, they also do early neutering via key hole and have all equipment on site, the only downside is they dont offer out of hours emergency so the nearest emergency i can find for now is Woodstock.


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## katemac (Apr 13, 2013)

thanks cat


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> I will pm you with a great vet, they also do early neutering via key hole and have all equipment on site, the only downside is they dont offer out of hours emergency so the nearest emergency i can find for now is Woodstock.


Keyhole surgery is amazing. Just the tiniest wound, and they don't even seem to notice they have been operated on. 
Tosca was 5 months when she was spayed (vet didn't want to do it any sooner), but she never looked back.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Vikki1985 said:


> I live in a small town in the south and there are 4 within 20 miles! It's helped me out


I have heard that despite being listed in that link some vets still won't do early neutering... I'll be ringing the two near me (and talking to my own vet) once Lola has finally called again and got pregnant.

She's a pedigree Oriental Blue BTW.


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## lynnenagle (Mar 15, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> Surely the receptionist is going by the veterinarian's protocol when she is giving you such advice. Don't think it's a whole lot different in the UK vs the US in this regard. And no, a receptionist would not dispense inaccurate and dangerous veterinarian advice and still have a job, sorry.


I made a statement of support. People said that receptionists don't give advice as if the op was a liar! I never said what the advice was or if it was right or wrong!
I was only saying that if the op wants the best for her cat she would have to try and deal with the negative comments as well as the great advice that is given on here. I was saying that from experience as i've had to do the same to ensure i get the best advice for sophie.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

chloe1975 said:


> I enquired recently about early neutering as it now seems to be common before kittens leave but none will neuter before 6 months and that includes my usual vet who are a national chain.


Perhaps look further afield, my vets are 90-120mins away depending on traffic and I'd gladly travel double that for the service and expertise they provide.

There are others closer, but I prefer them as a breeding specialist clinic and I can rest easy knowing that none of my kittens can ever be in the hands of a byb.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

chloe1975 said:


> I think there are still a lot of vet practices that don't do early neutering. We live in a large town in the west midlands and there are 3 practices nearby, I have used 2 for my cats and kittens. I enquired recently about early neutering as it now seems to be common before kittens leave but none will neuter before 6 months and that includes my usual vet who are a national chain.


Given where you live I cannot believe there isn't a vet reasonably close to you who will neuter before 6 months. You most local ones might not, so cast your net a bit wider. Also give your local rescues a ring and ask them if they can suggest a vet who will neuter earlier.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

catcoonz said:


> I will pm you with a great vet, they also do early neutering via key hole and have all equipment on site, the only downside is they dont offer out of hours emergency so the nearest emergency i can find for now is Woodstock.


I would like that vet info too pls, I would travel to find a vet that will early neuter x


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Lucy, i will pm you the vet, i need to ask the vet not the receptionist though for early neutering.
Ive informed the op but been told this is the same vet they see.

I also know Carly's vet is great, probably nearer to you aswell so pm carly for those details.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> Ive informed the op but been told this is the same vet they see.


Same vet eh? Imagine you know them quite well. So does the receptionist at your vet practice _really_ dole out reckless and dangerous advice that goes against standard veterinary medicine recommendations ?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Well when i phoned the receptionist (may not be the same one) said i could speak with the vet myself. I asked a simple question regarding a cat pregnancy and was told to hold the line whilst she asks the vet for information.

Sadly, as i expected, i havent heard from the op since giving vet details and i dont as yet have an address incase of help, so i guess im not needed.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Not everyone has the means to travel to a vet a couple of hours away, katemac may not have transport, as i dont myself i know it can be difficult even to get to one an hour away, so its taxis, and very expensive, and you cant really take a cat on public transport so far away
Aso as they are moggy kittens she might not have the money to vaccinate AND neuter,it is going to be VERY expensive,and she wont recoup the cost by what she sells them for, so if not just needs to be really careful who the kittens go to, 
You might say she should have thought about this, well maybe, but most people wouldnt if not an actual pedigree breeder
Also the cat probably WONT need a C-Section, even if she is a small cat,but that is the main priority to begin with,just in case,
I think she is being harrassed,to get these pics of her cat, and to neuter, she has said how old it is,and that the photos are from a few months ago
Cats such as Devon Rex are very small,but dont usually need a C-Section, and sometimes a big cat needs a C-Section, so doesnt always go on size
She is basically being called a liar for a lot of things she has said, but all she was asking for was advice


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## kimberleyski (Nov 7, 2012)

jaycee05 said:


> Not everyone has the means to travel to a vet a couple of hours away, katemac may not have transport, as i dont myself i know it can be difficult even to get to one an hour away, so its taxis, and very expensive, and you cant really take a cat on public transport so far away
> Aso as they are moggy kittens she might not have the money to vaccinate AND neuter,it is going to be VERY expensive,and she wont recoup the cost by what she sells them for, so if not just needs to be really careful who the kittens go to,
> You might say she should have thought about this, well maybe, but most people wouldnt if not an actual pedigree breeder
> Also the cat probably WONT need a C-Section, even if she is a small cat,but that is the main priority to begin with,just in case,
> ...


CC is recommending vets which are close to her and early neuter as she lives in the area and has a lot of experience with local vets. 
I don't think you could ever say a cat probably WON'T need a c-section. How would you know that? Do you know the size of the Tom she mated with? That's like saying a human prob won't need a C-Section, well I did. Not for any other reason than labour didn't progress. 
Do you know this cat copes with labour well, if she hasn't done it before?
A devon rex might be small but a proper breeder would mate it with another devon rex therefore the kittens would be devon rex and smaller too. But again there is no guarantee any cat would cope with labour well.

As for the vaccinations and neutering, I'm not even going to go into that, I'm sure someone else will do.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Someone suggested looking further afield, all i am saying is maybe it wouldnt be possible, yes cc is looking near her, but i still think its harrassment, let katemac decide for herself
It smacks of bullying to me, like because someone finds a vet that will early neuter the op is going to be watched to make sure she is doing what everyone says she should, others have said that they have been told certain things by a receptionist, and yet this person is almost being called a liar,and most cats WONT need a C-Section, some will so yes,best to be prepared, but hopefully she wont, everyone is assuming this cat is very small, the op says the pics are earlier ones
Why do YOU need proof of how big she is now, will it make any difference, what the outcome will be if katemac posts any


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I have already suggested to this person a vet near her, it turns out its the same vet she already uses.

I hope the girl doesnt need a c-section so a photo would have given us all an idea of how big the cat is so we could offer additional advise.

There's little point in arguing now, whats done is done and i hope if the op needs any advise they will come back and ask, she may have already had kittens by now, i just hope the girl and her kittens are fine.


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## kimberleyski (Nov 7, 2012)

jaycee05 said:


> Someone suggested looking further afield, all i am saying is maybe it wouldnt be possible, yes cc is looking near her, but i still think its harrassment, let katemac decide for herself
> It smacks of bullying to me, like because someone finds a vet that will early neuter the op is going to be watched to make sure she is doing what everyone says she should, others have said that they have been told certain things by a receptionist, and yet this person is almost being called a liar,and most cats WONT need a C-Section, some will so yes,best to be prepared, but hopefully she wont, everyone is assuming this cat is very small, the op says the pics are earlier ones
> Why do YOU need proof of how big she is now, will it make any difference, what the outcome will be if katemac posts any


I actually hadn't posted until I saw your comment, as far as I could see everyone was trying to help her. This is a pet forum and therefore they have the cats interest at heart. With the greatest respect I very much doubt you have more experience than a lot of people on here helping. A lot of members on here are breeders themselves or involved in rescues. 
I don't think anyone can ever assume a cat won't need a c-section. 
The OP has said the cat is small - she is small even at 9 months which is when the pics were taken. People want a pic so they can help as CC said.

I think throwing around the accusation she is being bullied is a bit harsh. You need to understand people will be worried about her cat and have seen a lot of bad situations in the past.

I don't think you understand how dangerous it could potentially be for a very young and small moggy cat to be pregnant, by an unknown untested Tom. 
This is why people get angry, because they do know.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

kimberleyski said:


> I don't think you understand how dangerous it could potentially be for a very young and small moggy cat to be pregnant, by an unknown untested Tom.
> This is why people get angry, because they do know.


Just went through with my first cat c-section, so I can add that it doesn't even have to have anything to do with size or disease, something could simply just go wrong. In my case it was a ruptured placenta which caused a situation where the queen just couldn't get a kitten out no matter how hard she tried. And this wasn't even her first litter. There was a strong possibility that all of them would have died if I hadn't taken her to the vet.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Is your girl ok now. xxx


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> Is your girl ok now. xxx


If you're asking me, yes, she's fine. The vet managed to save all the kittens too.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

It's up to the moderators of this forum to determine "bullying"  If you have a problem with a post, there is always the report button.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

As i am also a breeder i do know what i am talking about,i had to have a C-Section done on one of mine a few years ago, as she was struggling after here first 2 kittens, she was having contractions for too long, so obviously i took her to the vets, but she wasnt a small girl, so i know it is not always the size of the cat, i am assuming this cat WONT need a caesarean, and i am sure the op will take her to the vet if she has problems
It is people going on about early neutering i am talking about, 
I just think there is no need, to go on about it, the person might not be able to afford neutering at all, even the vaccinations are going to cost her a lot, 
I do understand people are trying to help, but i imagine she didnt even think about this in the beginning, people who have moggy kittens rarely do, but it sounds as if a vet is found who early neuters, then katemac is going to feel almost forced to do it because if she doesnt she will get slated, because you are all going to want to know which vet she goes to,and if any cc has found or anyone else, they are going to want to know why not
I agree its best if kittens could neutered, at a later age,before they go ,but personally i dont agree with such early neutering anyway
You might not think its bullying but to go on and on and make someone feel guilty seems like bullying to me, even if not in your eyes


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I know all the expenses with vaccinations and early neutering, some agree so dont, thats up to them.

I think if we mention early neutering and asked to find a vet for this person in their area, its entirely up to them if they wish to continue with any vaccinations etc, many accidental litters dont bother, but i wont pester the person to see if they have.

I just think if all the areas are covered, then people can sit down and think of what they want to do, we cant change the world of accidental litters so no point in worrying about it.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Are you a registered breeder in good standing? Very strange this would hit such a nerve with you if that were the case, and this is not the first thread either.

I find it hard to believe an ethical breeder would encourage the reckless breeding of moggies. 


If someone can't afford the very basic of cat care , ie spay neuter, they should not have a cat. Do you re-home the cats you breed to such owners?

Again, not sure what you don't get about the mods making the bullying determination. Doubt OP even cares, if she did she would allow CC to help her.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

There are many good registered breeders who dont neuter kittens before leaving.

To be honest ive only heard of early neutering since being on the forum, i was worried at first it would affect the size of the breed i do but i will neuter all pets before they leave now. Had an experience last year with a byb and i wont do that again.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> There are many good registered breeders who dont neuter kittens before leaving.
> 
> To be honest ive only heard of early neutering since being on the forum, i was worried at first it would affect the size of the breed i do but i will neuter all pets before they leave now. Had an experience last year with a byb and i wont do that again.


My own CFA/TICA registered breeder doesn't neuter before re-homing. She is also of the old school "not a day before 6 months" mentality. But it is in the contract they will be neutered. She also would not have sold them to me if I couldn't afford basic care or was planning to let them breed.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Yes i AM registered breeder, i have been breeding for 15 years,and i am not encouraging moggy breeding, far from it, i have seen lots of strays advertised , in rescues,and i have a rescued cat myself,and have had 4 rescues in the past, 
I just think people are offering advice and thats good, but there were offers to find an early neutering vet, so the op took the offers up,but what else could she do, it would seem as if she didnt care or want to early neuter, and to be honest i dont think she will anyway, doubt if she will even vaccinate tbh
It does seem that she is being hounded about it, and whatever her reasons, finances or whatever, its her decision in the end,whether we agree or not
Advice would be nice when she asks for it, again, re, birth of the kittens or whatever,without going on about neutering when the kittens are not even here yet
I am very careful where my kittens go, and check out as much as possible before they go, in fact when they are first enquired about, i have turned people down for various reasons if i didnt think they were suitable,and i keep a record of where all of them go to, one young woman came to see the kittens,and let it slip her mother actually bred moggies, needless to say she didnt get one of mine, 
I do realise people were trying to help and give advice, but until the kittens are born, no point going on about neutering,but i agree the mum needs spaying asap after the birth
Most people keep in touch with me for a while afterwards, and some are still in touch years after taking the kittens, and become friends,


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Early neutering is not just about preventing further litters, but also about preventing diseases from spreading.

It is a fact that many unneutered toms roam and become semi-feral, or fight with (semi-)ferals in their quest to mate, and allowing unneutered cats and newly-fertile kittens to escape or roam and mate highly increases the risk of their contracting FIV, FeLV and the corona virus that can mutate to FIP, to name but a few.

There are quite a number of people on this forum who volunteer at a rescue or even run their own, and they see plenty of examples of dumped and diseased cats. So it is very logical that people will stress the importance of early neutering, as they deal with the - sometimes truly horrific - consequences of not neutering on a daily basis.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

I Try really hard not to get involved with these tangents in threads but I just want to say I agree with Jaycee.

Sometimes people on this forum are so against accidental litters, (which is a good thing by the way dont get me wrong there) that they really push for early neutering. The op's must feel that they can early neuter if they want to, or find responsible homes which will neuter when they feel is right. Majority of responsible people do this.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

MollyMilo said:


> I Try really hard not to get involved with these tangents in threads but I just want to say I agree with Jaycee.
> 
> Sometimes people on this forum are so against accidental litters, (which is a good thing by the way dont get me wrong there) that they really push for early neutering. The op's must feel that they can early neuter if they want to, or find responsible homes which will neuter when they feel is right. Majority of responsible people do this.


Same here I try to keep out too...but....

If people aren't responsible enough to neuter their own and have "accidental" litters do you think some people are responsible enough to care about responsible owners.. xx

Shall I put my head on the chopping board now xx


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

danniandnala said:


> Same here I try to keep out too...but....
> 
> If people aren't responsible enough to neuter their own and have "accidental" litters do you think some people are responsible enough to care about responsible owners.. xx
> 
> Shall I put my head on the chopping board now xx


True..
Though i wasn't just talking about this thread in particular.

Hopefully, in this case we have now educated the OP and she can go forth and become responsible knowing the ins and outs of producing kittens.

Hope so anyway!! x


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

MollyMilo said:


> True..
> Though i wasn't just talking about this thread in particular.
> 
> Hopefully, in this case we have now educated the OP and she can go forth and become responsible knowing the ins and outs of producing kittens.
> ...


I wasn't talking about this op either...but to have an accidental litter in my PERSONAL OPINION does make you irresponsible xx


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

We merely urged the OP to early neuter for various reasons, but it's her own choice in the end. That's what a forum is good for, getting an argument for both sides, however the only argument for not early neutering moggies is because you won't be able to cover your costs when they are sold to their new owners. 

This isn't a strong enough reason when there's disease risks, endless cycles of unwanted pregnancies, abandonment risks, serious health implications etc. I would've early neutered Mrs K's kittens and charged however much it was for the op and vaccinations, because then the right people may have come along, who thought it was worth while getting a neutered kitten, healthy kitten for more money because they were going to fork out for the neutering themselves anyway, but the recovery etc. is already taken care of. Even if the kitten had to stay with us for a lot longer than intended, if someone is willing to pay just for what they were already planning on doing, then they're automatically the right owner for me (obviously subject to other checks) but they passed the first test essentially.

Regardless of pedigree status, you should be paying for costs that ensure the health of a kitten, if you don't like that then you obviously weren't intending on forking out for the costs in the end anyway.

I hope you all understand what I mean 

Honestly, I would pay £100 for a neutered, fully vaccinated moggy. I paid £50 for Cas and he wasn't even wormed or flead and paid £45 for Nora when she had "apparently" seen a vet once and was flead and wormed, despite coming to us riddled with them. It was just a good job my "cheap" kittens came to us and we could provide for them and give them the health care they needed. I worry everyday about where Cas' siblings went.


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

Moggies eat the same food as pedigrees, they have the same vaccinations, their vet care costs the same, they play with the same toys and if the owner goes on holiday they go to the same catteries. In other words, anyone who has moggy cats pays the same for their upkeep throughout their lives as pedigrees. It might be an unrealistic and unworkable view, but why shouldn't they be given the same start in life too if at all possible - and go to homes when they are wormed, flead, vaccinated and even neutered if at all possible (as they would be if they came from a rescue centre). If someone gets their cat into a pickle by letting it get pregnant, then they should have a sense of responsibility to the kittens (as recent owners of moggy litters on here seem to be doing - which is fantastic).


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

It was a bit presumptious to assume i knew nothing about breeding because of what i said in my post, i do not agree with ,or condone moggy breeding, and yes responsible owners WILL spay and neuter, all i was trying to point out was that someone having an accidental moggy litter probably wont be able to afford to early neuter, and wont recoup the costs either from the sale of the kittens, by the time they have paid for food ,litter ,worming,
The op will now know,beyond reasonable doubt how people on the forum feel about it, but what is done is done,so hopefully others will read and learn
My kittens go to the best possible homes, and as i said, if i dont think someone is suitable, they do not have one of mine
I am not encouraging moggy breeding by putting my viewpoint across, i have as much right as anyone else on the forum, just a different viewpoint to some


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> *i have as much right as anyone else on the forum, just a different viewpoint to some*


It appeared (to me at least) that you were telling others how and what they should post. Also seemed to be a bit judgmental toward members expressing their own opinions and exercising their right to free speech on a public forum. Certainly it's a bit hypocritical for you to think you have anymore of a right than anyone else.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Where have i said i have more right than anyone else ,i said i have as MUCH right as anyone else
I dont see how you think i was telling everyone else what to say,more like you were doing that,if others agreed with anything i said it was their choice nothing to do with me
How on earth could i tell anyone else what to post, you read what i wrote
Please point out to me where i was TELLING anyone else what to post
I certainly wasnt meaning to be judgemental either, just thought some were going over the top at telling the op what she should have done,and be doing


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> It was a bit presumptious to assume i knew nothing about breeding because of what i said in my post, i do not agree with ,or condone moggy breeding, and yes responsible owners WILL spay and neuter, all i was trying to point out was that someone having an accidental moggy litter probably wont be able to afford to early neuter, and wont recoup the costs either from the sale of the kittens, by the time they have paid for food ,litter ,worming,
> The op will now know,beyond reasonable doubt how people on the forum feel about it, but what is done is done,so hopefully others will read and learn
> My kittens go to the best possible homes, and as i said, if i dont think someone is suitable, they do not have one of mine
> I am not encouraging moggy breeding by putting my viewpoint across, i have as much right as anyone else on the forum, just a different viewpoint to some


I may have missed this, but do you early neuter your pedigrees before they go to their new homes?

Like Laura said, why should pedigrees get a better start in life than moggies? You should be encouraging early neutering with the rest of us instead of caring about the person's finances, this isn't directed to the OP but if you let your cat get pregnant, you deserve to come out of it worse off when you put her life at risk. Breeders come out worse off and they've done it all right, ensured the health of every cat and the future of every kitten, why on earth should a person with an 'accidental' litter not have the same problem?


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> just thought some were going over the top at telling the op what she should have done,and be doing


You just reinforced my point exactly.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I dont early neuter,and my vet wont do it anyway, i agree that moggies should have the same chances and treatment as pedigrees, , my rescue cat moggy] has exactly the same treatment, i dont treat him any differently than my pedigrees,and i am not worrying about other peoples finances, just pointing out that the op might not be in a situation to early neuter, as everyone is saying she should ,not everyone has money to fall back on,or credit cards
We dont know other peoples financial situations, so shouldnt judge


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

SamanthaGoosey said:


> I may have missed this, but do you early neuter your pedigrees before they go to their new homes?
> 
> Like Laura said, why should pedigrees get a better start in life than moggies? You should be encouraging early neutering with the rest of us instead of caring about the person's finances, this isn't directed to the OP but if you let your cat get pregnant, you deserve to come out of it worse off when you put her life at risk. Breeders come out worse off and they've done it all right, ensured the health of every cat and the future of every kitten, why on earth should a person with an 'accidental' litter not have the same problem?


its not the point of the birth and feeding them for several weeks...

on the thread i did today someone posted about her friends cat(sorry cant remember her name) who'd been prob raped was in a secure encloser atom had got in and was full of diseases that shes now fighting for her life xx


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I dont early neuter,and my vet wont do it anyway, i agree that moggies should have the same chances and treatment as pedigrees, , my rescue cat moggy] has exactly the same treatment, i dont treat him any differently than my pedigrees,and i am not worrying about other peoples finances, just pointing out that the op might not be in a situation to early neuter, as everyone is saying she should ,not everyone has money to fall back on,or credit cards
> We dont know other peoples financial situations, so shouldnt judge


So aren't you worried you're selling to BYBs?

I'm sure if you were concerned and went looking, you'd find one that did, it's easier than you think.

I get that not everyone can afford it, but a few calls to the RSPCA or CPL, they can have vouchers through the post within a few days, kittens neutered and sent to their new homes within weeks of turning 3 months old.

I'm not going to say "Aww okay, don't early neuter because you can't afford it, poor you." I'm going to say "Well you should've thought about that when you could've spayed your girl, so now you have to pay the price in order to ensure the safety of the kittens." People have to deal with the consequences of their actions.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

If you ring round all the vets within a 20 mile radius of where you live and ask if they do early neutering 95% (at least) will say no.

My vets practice said no when I asked about getting Holly and Rowan done the same time as Willow. Willow was almost 6 months, the other two were almost 4 months.

I had an appointment for something else and asked my actual *vet* and he said yes. The nurses and receptionists will stick to the 6 month guideline in most cases, because that is the norm, and probably what they have been taught.

So if you ring up and ask you will more than likely be told 6 months old, its only when you speak the actual vet, you may get a yes.

If my vet had no, I don't think I wouldn't have had the time or the money to book an appointment to see an actual vet at every single practice and ask them personally!


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> If you ring round all the vets within a 20 mile radius of where you live and ask if they do early neutering 95% (at least) will say no.
> 
> My vets practice said no when I asked about getting Holly and Rowan done the same time as Willow. Willow was almost 6 months, the other two were almost 4 months.
> 
> ...


 And you're told you're stupid if you don't know that cats can be spayed earlier than six months. If you ring around and are told the same thing, you'd believe it. I'm sure vets would say to keep pets indoors until then. It's people being called stupid because of it that gets to me is all.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Blackcats said:


> And you're told you're stupid if you don't know that cats can be spayed earlier than six months. If you ring around and are told the same thing, you'd believe it. I'm sure vets would say to keep pets indoors until then. It's people being called stupid because of it that gets to me is all.


It's not stupid, it's the general consensus, but everyone needs to be told more about early neutering. It becomes stupid when people don't think they need to be neutered at all!


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

SamanthaGoosey said:


> It's not stupid, it's the general consensus, but everyone needs to be told more about early neutering. It becomes stupid when people don't think they need to be neutered at all!


 What? Since when did I mention not neutering at all? I agree people do but to say they're stupid or irresponsible because they didn't know doesn't sit well with me.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Blackcats said:


> What? Since when did I mention not neutering at all? I agree people do but to say they're stupid or irresponsible because they didn't know doesn't sit well with me.


I didn't say you said it, or imply that you did. But you were annoyed that people were being called stupid for not knowing about early neutering, I believe these people shouldn't be called stupid. Whereas I'm just explaining I would call somebody stupid for choosing not to neuter their cat when they knew they should. I should've been more specific, sorry.

As for people who don't know about neutering and spaying (in general, not just early neutering), this should become the focus of animal charity TV campaigns. The RSPCA have enough money to ask for money to fund the charity, but not enough to run an advert explaining what neutering is and why people should neuter? Seems silly!


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

SamanthaGoosey said:


> I didn't say you said it, or imply that you did. But you were annoyed that people were being called stupid for not knowing about early neutering, I believe these people shouldn't be called stupid. Whereas I'm just explaining I would call somebody stupid for choosing not to neuter their cat when they knew they should. I should've been more specific, sorry.
> 
> As for people who don't know about neutering and spaying (in general, not just early neutering), this should become the focus of animal charity TV campaigns. The RSPCA have enough money to ask for money to fund the charity, but not enough to run an advert explaining what neutering is and why people should neuter? Seems silly!


Ah, I see. In that case we share the same opinion. I agree!


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

_No one has called anyone stupid!_. You are the first one to even mention the word.

Early neutering was only a suggestion, the topic came up as part of the thread. No one has _demanded_ OP to do so. OP claims going to the same veterinarian as CC, who was trying to help because she lives nearby. OP seemed to disappear once she knew CC lived so close. CC pm'd her private cell phone number for assistance I believe, as she commonly does and has not heard back.

OP claimed to have the same vet as CC. Claimed the vet's receptionist told her the cat needed to go into heat before they would spay. So if people are doubtful about the circumstances they have every right to do so and to post their opinions.

How would you like that reworded to fit your ideal image of how people should express their opinions on a public forum?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

TT...why are you typing in PINK.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't think anyone is being called stupid for not knowing about early neutering but the whole subject is very emotive.
I don't have my kittens neutered before they leave - my vet will do it from 16 weeks if I want - but I trust my judgement enough to believe that they are not going to bybs. I have a contract that they will be neutered by 6 months (later only on a vet's recommendation) and have a slip to be returned to me signed by the vet. No one has let me down so far.
I don't want to close this thread but will do so if the flaming continues


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Was just waiting for you to get your 2 cents in. :001_rolleyes:

I could reply to you but already have been told of your reputation on this forum. I'd rather not. Respected member. Oh aye.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Blackcats said:


> Was just waiting for you to get your 2 cents in. :001_rolleyes:
> 
> I could reply to you but already have been told of your reputation on this forum. I'd rather not. Respected member. Oh aye.


Excuse me?


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

Blackcats said:


> Was just waiting for you to get your 2 cents in. :001_rolleyes:
> 
> I could reply to you but already have been told of your reputation on this forum. I'd rather not. Respected member. Oh aye.


Tt is a very respected member...why are you so defensive xx


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> Excuse me?


Beggin your pardon, I was referring to TT. Thought I had quoted (sp?) Her post.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I sincerly hope that remark was not aimed at a moderator, if it was you should be ashamed of yourself for being so rude.

Crossed posted: even so this remark aimed at anybody is very rude.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

danniandnala said:


> Tt is a very respected member...why are you so defensive xx


I'm not getting defensive. It appears she is. I like how she always uses undertones of sarcasm. A respected member you say. I can't see it but if you do that's fine.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

Blackcats said:


> I'm not getting defensive. It appears she is. I like how she always uses undertones of sarcasm. A respected member you say. I can't see it but if you do that's fine.


I've been on a lot longer then you..so yeh I see it xx


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

danniandnala said:


> I've been on a lot longer then you..so yeh I see it xx


Many people disagree. Guess it's difference of opinion again.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Can we stop this silly behaviour now, everybody has had their say and to be honest i dont want yet another thread closed due to rude remarks.

Cant we have a thread that educates people without all this nonsense.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Blackcats said:


> Beggin your pardon, I was referring to TT. Thought I had quoted (sp?) Her post.


Okay but keep this thread civil please. 
You (general - not aimed at quoted poster) may not agree entirely with what others have to say but that is no excuse for rudeness from any member.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

MCWillow said:


> So if you ring up and ask you will more than likely be told 6 months old, its only when you speak the actual vet, you may get a yes.


That is true, is the same in most places in the US, certainly in the rural area I live. I don't believe the early neutering comments were meant as anything other than a suggestion and a means to educate. I certainly don't think anyone meant to imply someone was stupid for not early neutering. As mentioned, some people are only learning of it here on the forum.

And even if someone believes they must wait until age 6 months, they still have to know the cat can become pregnant and take appropriate measures to prevent such a thing from happening.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> Can we stop this silly behaviour now, everybody has had their say and to be honest i dont want yet another thread closed due to rude remarks.
> 
> Cant we have a thread that educates people without all this nonsense.


I had been saying this all along. I agreed with you all on most things. Just feel some members want to pick an argument. God sake.


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

Cross posted.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> Okay but keep this thread civil please.
> You (general - not aimed at quoted poster) may not agree entirely with what others have to say but that is no excuse for rudeness from any member.


I am aware I was rude on this one. I can apologise for that. Just sick of all these snide remarks and sarcasm. Truly, mod, there is no need for it.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

If you read my original post you'll see I said as early as POSSIBLE...POSSIBLE just because i did just over 4 months I never TOLD everyone else to xx


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I find it hard to believe that people dont realise cats can get pregnant if not spayed, there is enough posters etc about it, but i DID ask my vet NOT a receptionist what he thought about early spaying and he didnt agree with it, i dont have transport so cant go further than the 3 vets we have here, but i dont agree with it either, so not too worried,

As far as the RSPCA paying for neutering, i believe now [here anyway] they will only pay £20 towards it.and you have to get certain benefits anyway, i trust my judge
Also NO i am not too worried about byb because i trust my judgement, but dont know of any that i have homed, most seem to be middle aged people and couples who buy from me, and keep in touch with me


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I find it hard to believe that people dont realise cats can get pregnant if not spayed, there is enough posters etc about it, but i DID ask my vet NOT a receptionist what he thought about early spaying and he didnt agree with it, i dont have transport so cant go further than the 3 vets we have here, but i dont agree with it either, so not too worried,
> 
> As far as the RSPCA paying for neutering, i believe now [here anyway] they will only pay £20 towards it.and you have to get certain benefits anyway, i trust my judge
> Also NO i am not too worried about byb because i trust my judgement, but dont know of any that i have homed, most seem to be middle aged people and couples who buy from me, and keep in touch with me


A lot of people probably see the posters but don't think it applies to them for whatever reason. Some people prefer to absolve responsibility and put their heads in the sand, then when their cat gets pregnant, they don't understand how it happened.

Does anyone know the statistics of unneutered/unspayed adult cats compared to neutered/spayed? I'd imagine it's a very uneven ratio.

What do you breed jaycee? Just out of interest  I imagine it's imperative to build trust in the new owners, what Lynn does is great though, at least then it's contracted instead of word of mouth, they're bound then to fulfill the terms otherwise the cat goes back to the safe hands of the breeder


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Toby Tyler said:


> That is true, is the same in most places in the US, certainly in the rural area I live. I don't believe the early neutering comments were meant as anything other than a suggestion and a means to educate. I certainly don't think anyone meant to imply someone was stupid for not early neutering. As mentioned, some people are only learning of it here on the forum.
> 
> And even if someone believes they must wait until age 6 months, they still have to know the cat can become pregnant and take appropriate measures to prevent such a thing from happening.


To be honest, I didn't know a cat could get pregnant at 6 months of age until I joined here. Obviously I knew a cat could get pregnant if unspayed and let outside, but I never knew it could be from such a young age.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm going to close this for a while to remove some of the unnecessary posts. It will be reopened tomorrow - it's late and I'm too tired to do it right now.


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