# Non active register



## Sweetie

If a cat is registered as non active, is there no way you can have them as a stud?

Thanks.


----------



## gskinner123

There's nothing to stop anyone breeding from a cat which is on the non-active register though obviously one would hope that they wouldn't. Breeding from a non-active cat, whether male or female, would mean that GCCF would not register the kittens and of course the breeder who sold the non-active cat(s) in the first place wouldn't be very happy.


----------



## Taylorbaby

well, of course you could, but 99% are sold with neutering contracts.

some breeders *might* lift it if he is a good example, BUT you should have talked to the breeder beforehand, so she could choose the pick of the litter, plus they normally dont sell to people with less then 3girls, and its not the best life for astud, you will have to get a heated house outside as he will cry / spray and some poo everywhere to attract a mate.

advice? netuer him at 5-6months befrore he learns this 'habbit'


----------



## Tje

wouldn't it also be fair to say that some cats on the non-active register would be unsuitable to breed from ? 

I mean like have some kind of "flaw" that they could/would pass on ?


----------



## DKDREAM

Tje said:


> wouldn't it also be fair to say that some cats on the non-active register would be unsuitable to breed from ?
> 
> I mean like have some kind of "flaw" that they could/would pass on ?


Thats true they could have but I feel some breeders use the none active register too much, I know its hard to know who to trust but theirs so many beautiful cats neutered so soon.


----------



## lizward

You'd make the breeder very unhappy. It is possible that the cat may be non-active because of some serious fault but it's far more likely to be simply because the breeder doesn't want to sell cats for breeding, either at all, or not males, or to you. Often the breeder has no say in this because it is imposed by the owner of the stud she used. 

Liz


----------



## DKDREAM

lizward said:


> You'd make the breeder very unhappy. It is possible that the cat may be non-active because of some serious fault but it's far more likely to be simply because the breeder doesn't want to sell cats for breeding, either at all, or not males, or to you. Often the breeder has no say in this because it is imposed by the owner of the stud she used.
> 
> Liz


I dont really think their would be a serious fault as if their was surely the whole litter should be reg as none active and the parents removed from breeding? I really think the none active is just their to protect breeders so them and only them can breed, It makes it very hard for new breeders to get breeding stock.


----------



## Sweetie

Thank you all.

I'm not breeding or thinking of it just yet but I'm looking for a new BSH since mine passed and am confused by this non active/active register makarky.

Breeders sell them as non active, so if you had a non active male, but an active female, could you not be a breeder or register the kittens? Oh I'm confused, lol!


----------



## buffie

DKDREAM said:


> I dont really think their would be a serious fault as if their was surely the whole litter should be reg as none active and the parents removed from breeding? I really think the none active is just their to protect breeders so them and only them can breed, It makes it very hard for new breeders to get breeding stock.


This must surely be the case if there is a serious fault in one then the potential is there for any litter mate to carry that fault .


----------



## Taylorbaby

Sweetie said:


> Thank you all.
> 
> I'm not breeding or thinking of it just yet but I'm looking for a new BSH since mine passed and am confused by this non active/active register makarky.
> 
> Breeders sell them as non active, so if you had a non active male, but an active female, could you not be a breeder or register the kittens? Oh I'm confused, lol!


active = for breeding, talk to breeder beforehand so she can pick the best of the litter.

boys are only sold to people with more than 3even 4 girls, you need to know about owning a stud keeping him happy, may have restrictions on him like not letting other use him, not selling his offspring on active for breeding, you may have to show him to prove that he is a good example etc

boys need outside house, or inside properly made e.g. tiles (easy to clean) for the spray a neutered cat for a friend when girls arent visiting, the ones i know poo everywhere to attract girls, and spray up and over everything and my god! does it smell!! they cry and call to mates (need good neighbours)

non active = pet, not for breeding to be neutered at 5-6months.
some pets are suitable for breeding but the breeder is selling them as pets only, some may have off centre markings etc etc


----------



## DKDREAM

If you had an active reg girl she can only be bred to an active boy so you can register babies

Active girl x None Active Boy = Un registered kittens 
None Active Girl x Active Boy = Un registered kittens 

Active boy x Active girl = Registered Kittens

Basically if any cat is bred from on the non active it means their kittens can never be registered (only if the none active parent is transferred to active will they allow it, this can only be done by the breeder of the non active cat.


----------



## Tje

buffie said:


> This must surely be the case if there is a serious fault in one then the potential is there for any litter mate to carry that fault .


my thoughts exactly Buffy!! I know where people are coming from when they say that many cats are placed on the non-active register for no valid reason. i.e: they would make perfectly suitable queens or studs

BUT it should never ever be forgotten that there are often VERY valid reasons why cats are placed on the non-active register.

If you have a cat resgistered on the non-active register and you think you would like to breed from that kitten then the only ethical and responsible thing to do is to get back in touch with the breeder and ask for the cat to be trasferred to the active register. The breeder can ofcourse refuse to do the transfer, and definitely should if the cat is not good enough for breeding.


----------



## DKDREAM

i agree tje if you read back you'll see that.


----------



## Tje

DKDREAM said:


> i agree tje if you read back you'll see that.


yeah I saw the bit where you agreed, then you added this bit



DKDREAM said:


> I dont really think their would be a serious fault as if their was surely the whole litter should be reg as none active and the parents removed from breeding? I really think the none active is just their to protect breeders so them and only them can breed, It makes it very hard for new breeders to get breeding stock.


I am not a breeder, but even I can think of very valid reasons why one kitten (or more) from a litter would be unsuitable to breed from, while other litter mates were perfectly suitable for breeding.

Not all serious faults have to affect all the kittens in that litter.

*by serious I mean .... serious enough to make the cat being registered on the non-active register a valid and responsible and ethical thing to do.


----------



## DKDREAM

Tje said:


> yeah I saw the bit where you agreed, then you added this bit
> 
> I am not a breeder, but even I can think of very valid reasons why one kitten (or more) from a litter would be unsuitable to breed from, while other litter mates were perfectly suitable for breeding.
> 
> Not all serious faults have to affect all the kittens in that litter.
> 
> *by serious I mean .... serious enough to make the cat being registered on the non-active register a valid and responsible and ethical thing to do.


I know not all faults have to effect all kittens but they could still be passed on as they have the potential weather or not they show the fault I agree their are very valid reasons why cats are put on the none active but surely you cant predict how well a kitten will develop at 13 weeks???


----------



## Tje

DKDREAM said:


> I know not all faults have to effect all kittens but they could still be passed on as they have the potential weather or not they show the fault I agree their are very valid reasons why cats are put on the none active but surely you cant predict how well a kitten will develop at 13 weeks???


right, say I was a breeder, and say for instance I had a kitten that was looking very small... maybe that kitten will be 5 kilos by the time it gets to 9 months, but at that moment in time (when the kitten is +12 weeks old) I simply don't know how the kitten will develop. It strikes me that the best thing to do, because there is an element of doubt, then I register the kitten on the non-active register. So off it goes to its new home. 6 months later (or whatever) the new owners call me, tell me the kitten is a great size, great temperamant etc and express and interest to breed with the kitten/cat. I check the cat over, I agree that it's no longer worryingly small, and I transfer it to the active register. However, it could be that a small kitten turns into a tiny adult. And although I don't know that much about breeding, surely tiny adults shouldn't be bred from.

There is no rule to say that a kitten sold on the non-active has to stay on the non-active... but I do think if breeders are unsure about something (about a certian something will pan out with time) then the non-active register is where the cat should be registered.


----------



## DKDREAM

Tje said:


> right, say I was a breeder, and say for instance I had a kitten that was looking very small... maybe that kitten will be 5 kilos by the time it gets to 9 months, but at that moment in time (when the kitten is +12 weeks old) I simply don't know how the kitten will develop. It strikes me that the best thing to do, because there is an element of doubt, then I register the kitten on the non-active register. So off it goes to its new home. 6 months later (or whatever) the new owners call me, tell me the kitten is a great size, great temperamant etc and express and interest to breed with the kitten/cat. I check the cat over, I agree that it's no longer worryingly small, and I transfer it to the active register. However, it could be that a small kitten turns into a tiny adult. And although I don't know that much about breeding, surely tiny adults shouldn't be bred from.
> 
> There is no rule to say that a kitten sold on the non-active has to stay on the non-active... but I do think if breeders are unsure about something (about a certian something will pan out with time) then the non-active register is where the cat should be registered.


I couldnt agree more and I think thats the best thing to do. Its protecting that cat. :thumbup:


----------



## Sweetie

Thanks again.

So basically if you sell your kittens as non active, both parents must be active? If you had 2 registered cats but non active, you could still breed but the kittens could never be registered, so therefore it wouldn't really be legit. 

I have a boy coming to us soon, he's non active but that doesn't bother me as I only want him as a pet, but was really curious about how breeding works.


----------



## DKDREAM

\Yeah thats basically it Congratulations on your new boy


----------



## Tje

Sweetie said:


> If you had 2 registered cats but non active, you could still breed but the kittens could never be registered, so therefore it wouldn't really be legit. .


yes, exactly.... not legit and potentially VERY VERY unethical as a cat could be on the non active register because of a health issue.



Sweetie said:


> I have a boy coming to us soon, he's non active but that doesn't bother me as I only want him as a pet, but was really curious about how breeding works.


I don't mean to doubt your words, so please take this in the spirit it is meant and that is - my priorities always lie with the cats  .... but I really hope this is the truth.... there are massive potential health implications of breeding with cats on the non active register.

I think you may be thinking of breeding on some level if you are asking about the possibilities of using him as a stud. If you are, PLEASE get in touch with the breeder now and either get this kitten registered on the active register, or let the breeder steer towards another kitten suitable for breeding from. You have no way to know for sure _why_ this kitten is being sold on the non active register, there could be a VERY valid reason for that.


----------



## Sweetie

I would have possibly have thought about studding him but I didn't quite undertstand the whole register process, but now I do and he is non active I am happy to not let him stud at all. I wouldn't do that, of course I wouldn't if he wasn't registered. IF he was registered maybe I would have considered it in the future, but he isn't so now I understand it all I am happy with that.


----------



## Taylorbaby

Sweetie said:


> I would have possibly have thought about studding him but I didn't quite undertstand the whole register process, but now I do and he is non active I am happy to not let him stud at all. I wouldn't do that, of course I wouldn't if he wasn't registered. IF he was registered maybe I would have considered it in the future, but he isn't so now I understand it all I am happy with that.


just to repeat what i said earlier:
boys are only sold to people with more than 3even 4 girls, you need to know about owning a stud keeping him happy, may have restrictions on him like not letting other use him, not selling his offspring on active for breeding, you may have to show him to prove that he is a good example etc

boys need outside house, or inside properly made e.g. tiles (easy to clean) for the spray a neutered cat for a friend when girls arent visiting, the ones i know poo everywhere to attract girls, and spray up and over everything and my god! does it smell!! they cry and call to mates (need good neighbours)

NO good breeder will sell you a boy on active if you dont already have 3-4girls, say no one contacts you to use your boy? how will you keep him happy? there are LOTS of british studs out there, its the most popular breed of cat.

it makes no sense to have 1 boy and stud him out, what type of life would he have stuck in a shed at the bottom of your garden all day? trust me the smell and the crying and the craping all over the house, you will have to put him out there.

whats your breeding aims? will you acess queens coming in? health tests? 
say he wont mate or the girl is to nasty? what do you do?
theres such alot more to it then 'oh ill stud me boy out! bit of money!'

just have him as a pet or if your interested in breeding do it properly, but your need 3-4girls min Before buying a stud.


----------



## Sweetie

The boy we are going to see next week isn't active so he would be pet only, so therefore would be being neutered as soon as he was old enough.

My friend has 2 male cats that are neutered and has no problems with spraying etc...

Thanks for your advice.


----------



## Tje

Sweetie said:


> I would have possibly have thought about studding him but I didn't quite undertstand the whole register process, but now I do and he is non active I am happy to not let him stud at all. I wouldn't do that, of course I wouldn't if he wasn't registered. IF he was registered maybe I would have considered it in the future, but he isn't so now I understand it all I am happy with that.


cool ....  best of luck with him !!

is he another BSH boy ??? (my faves)


----------



## Sweetie

Yes he is. I can't wait)


----------



## lizward

DKDREAM said:


> I really think the none active is just their to protect breeders so them and only them can breed, It makes it very hard for new breeders to get breeding stock.


I agree, I am sure that is by far the most common reason. I do have one boy here that is on the non-active because he is hypokalemic though.

Liz


----------



## Tje

lizward said:


> I agree, I am sure that is by far the most common reason. *I do have one boy here that is on the non-active because he is hypokalemic though*.
> 
> Liz


and this is why we should never to be too blasé in our assertions that cats on the non-active are there because breeders are protecting their investments as many cats on the non-active register are there for a very valid reason.


----------



## Taylorbaby

I dont think that new breeders have a hard time, I didnt in reguards to buying a cat on active, most breeders were happy to sell them for double/triple/quad the pet price! I made freinds and spoke to breeders for 5 years Before I thought about getting a girl.

You dont just go to view and litter and say 'oh by the way i want to breed'!
ive had people come over then say 'so what do i have to do to get kittens from her?' 'i want one litter' 'i want to breed'

yet when I talk to them their eyes glaze over and they actually have Zero interest, well Im certainly Not selling them a kitten!! 

If someone was to email/call/visit talk to me about their plans health testing research etc then Id prob be happy after getting to know them.

Why do people call them 'stock' ive never understood that, i really dislike that term


----------



## Tje

Taylorbaby said:


> I dont think that new breeders have a hard time, I didnt in reguards to buying a cat on active, most breeders were happy to sell them


since I have been a member of this forum, and read all these "oh breeders just dont want to sell cats on the active register" type of posts, I have spent a lot of time asking breeders questions about this, about their relucatnace to sell some cats on the active... and I must agree, on the whole, I am in total agreeance with them.

I have a heard a lot of versions of "so and so came to me saying they might be interested in breeding one litter or maybe 2 from a female kitten, but they wouldn't be interetsed in doing this till the cat is 3 years old". Well as a breeder, if people are looking at buying a cat to breed from, and haven't even read the basics on breeding ... I can't blame them for not selling to them.

Another breeder told me of a person who wanted to buy a male cat as a stud and asked the breeder if that was possible... breeder replied "in principle yes, I certianly have no obejctions selling a male on the active register". But when the potential buyer went on to relate she had one female on the active, and only wanted the stud because she didn't like sending her cat out to stud as it stressed her. Breeder explained a stud can't have just one female. Breeder could see person wasn't buying this. When he asked where the stud would be kept and the buyer said a bedroom IF he sprays... well I can fully understand the breeders reluctance to sell a stud to home with one female, no outdoor run and an potential new owner who was frankly clueless.

And soooooo many people who express interests in breeding ARE so clueless that I too wouldn't want to sell an active registered cat to them. Go away and do your homework, then come back and ask for a cat on the active.

We see the ame in here all the time... people thinking there is nothing more to breeding than just putting 2 fertile cats together.

Then we get people like we had the other day... those two friends with the possibly pregnant female and the "he can't do it" male... and they really believe they have done alllll their home work and are well versed on what breeding entails... but they haven't got a clue.


----------



## alisondalziel

Nicely said Tje!!

Congrats on your new boy, is he a blue?

I agree with everything said already. Studs are for experienced breeders only, who have enough females to keep them happy, and somewhere appropriate for them to live. 

Breeders always start out with one or two females at the most, and go from there. It can take years before someone gets a male, if they ever do.


----------



## Leah100

Also don't BSH have blood Type issues? No one who is unprepared should try to 'stud' a cat, no matter how good the intentions, if the relevant health checks are not done, genetic screening if necessary and blood typing, you could end up losing a whole litter of babies 
Also, this gentle sweet natured kitten will change in behaviour and temperament, and you may not find him an appealing 'pet' after he has had a girl... Aside from the peeing and pooing, the yowling etc, if he gets frustrated he can become territorial and aggressive. 
There have been posters on this forum previously who have allowed their boy kitten to sire a litter as they wanted kittens, and then found his behaviour unmanageable and undesirable and re-homed him.....


----------



## Taylorbaby

Leah100 said:


> Also don't BSH have blood Type issues? No one who is unprepared should try to 'stud' a cat, no matter how good the intentions, if the relevant health checks are not done, genetic screening if necessary and blood typing, you could end up losing a whole litter of babies
> Also, this gentle sweet natured kitten will change in behaviour and temperament, and you may not find him an appealing 'pet' after he has had a girl... Aside from the peeing and pooing, the yowling etc, if he gets frustrated he can become territorial and aggressive.
> There have been posters on this forum previously who have allowed their boy kitten to sire a litter as they wanted kittens, and then found his behaviour unmanageable and undesirable and re-homed him.....


good point! totally forgot that they have to be blood grouped! :thumbsup:


----------

