# Parelli Natural Horsemanship



## lucylastic

Can anyone else see similarities between Pat Parelli's method and Cesar Milan? I think that both try to dominate their subjects and take away their freedom of choice. I don't want to get into a CM debate here but I see a big flaw in the Parelli ethos. CM deals with dogs (a predator) PP deals with horses (a prey animal) Take away a horses ability to flee and what I see is flat unhappy frightened horses. Any thoughts?


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## Fluffed

Yeah, I think that's about right. I know too little about dogs to comment on CM, but I think the Parelli's methods are really destructive not only for the horse but riders too. I met a woman who'd had a horse for five years and was too scared to get on it because she'd followed Parelli. 

The main problem I have with them is the way they market their product 'natural horsemanship', a new method. NH has been around since Xenophon! 

Orange stick my arse......


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## Nakeshamoon

I agree with natural horsemanship and some of pats ideas, I wasnt exposed to natural horsemanship and had only been around people using harsh traditional methods, pat parelli was the first 'celebrity' that i saw doing a form natural horsemanship. What I dislike is the fact that it costs $20,000 to go on most of his courses. I personally find animal communication to be the best thing I have found so far, with basic body language of that specie. I think its down to the individual also, I have done natural horsemanship exercises with a range of different horses, some find them boring and just go through the motions and it really does not change their behavior, just in that moment.
I do think it is important with horses that are not naturally a laid back character for safety though, especially around children. How many accidents I have seen or nearly seen due to people taking on horses with alot of energy and personality and appearing to have no basic knowledge of a horses natural behaviour. I see it with dogs also though.


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## GoldenShadow

Bumping this up because I totally agree. I have disliked Parelli and their methods for a very long time and most people have never really understood why. Nor did I until you used such a good comparison!

I think the likes of Monty Roberts are sat on a nicer form of natural horsemanship but I worry re Parelli the way so many people just jump straight on the bandwagon 

I've been to HOYS/British Open a fair few times and seen quite a few displays. People like Daniel Naprous who work alongside their horses without the aids of lunge whips (Jean Francois Pignon) to direct their horses and encourage them to perform are much more up my street. I don't disagree with riding crops etc at all, but general method wise there are a lot of unhappy looking horses in a lot of the displays I've seen. Horses seem to get a very raw deal compared with the likes of dogs/cats


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## Elles

When he first published his book and an audio tape, before he was famous, a lot of what he said did make sense and was open to interpretation. Having seen his methods in action, I soon realised that what he actually meant and how I'd interpreted it wasn't quite the same thing. I like the rope halters and the ropes, they're very nice, but that's about it. 

Reward based training is slowly being promoted in horse training instead, at least for the average horse owner with Internet access, though not so much for the competitive rider and Parelli has lost quite a few disciples due to some rather controversial video clips on the 'net involving himself and his wife teaching people and training horses. 

Monty's join-up is also subject to some controversy and questions raised as to his interpretation of horse language, such as the licking and chewing.

Parelli and Monty can be quite hot topics in the horse world, just as Cesar Millan is in the dog world.


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## Nonnie

Ive had little to do with the horsey sect for a long time now, so im unfamiliar with Parelli (although i have heard of it). Ive seen the video of one demonstration, and i found the horse had an almost doped/bored look. They did not look like they were enjoying the whole experince.

Seems more a marketing ploy to me, as don't they sell their Parelli equipment for a stupid amount of money when its a bit of old rope?

Has anyone any thoughts/opinions on Alexander Nevzorov?


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## Elles

> Has anyone any thoughts/opinions on Alexander Nevzorov?




I would probably be banned from Pet Forum if I put forward my opinion on this guy. hmy:

Suffice to say, he's very strange imho.


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## Nonnie

Elles said:


> I would probably be banned from Pet Forum if I put forward my opinion on this guy. hmy:
> 
> Suffice to say, he's very strange imho.


Well ive only ever seen him on youtube tbh.

I share a couple of views with him, but admit i know little else.

Could you put a non bannable version?


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## lucylastic

Nonnie said:


> Ive had little to do with the horsey sect for a long time now, so im unfamiliar with Parelli (although i have heard of it). Ive seen the video of one demonstration, and i found the horse had an almost doped/bored look. They did not look like they were enjoying the whole experince.
> 
> Seems more a marketing ploy to me, as don't they sell their Parelli equipment for a stupid amount of money when its a bit of old rope?
> 
> Has anyone any thoughts/opinions on Alexander Nevzorov?


I've watched quite a few video clips but don't know anything about his training methods. IMO though the horses look uncomfortable and unhappy. The expression 'learned helplessness' springs to mind. I see no beauty or harmony in what he does. 
He is another like Pat Parelli that has an unhealthy cult like following. Did you know that on the Parelli website you can actually buy a left handed training rope.


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## Elles

He believes his horses should not be permitted turnout or the company of other horses, they must be entirely dependent on him. He lays them down on their backs and stands over them and on them. He completely dominates them and I feel they appear stressed, anxious and wired. A cordeo (thin rope around the neck) is not necessarily a kind instrument and for one so condemning, I find it odd that he usually carries a stick.

The man himself being Russian and heavily involved in politics and media would probably be a personality that I wouldn't understand. I find him very strange and disconcerting. I'm not sure of his ethics or his intentions.

It has been said by some who claim to have trained with him that he does actually use bits, just you'll not see it in public, that wouldn't surprise me, but I couldn't confirm or deny it.

I've seen some quite strange video on the internet which he says is independent scientific research, but is quite obviously him in a scientist coat. I can't find it now though, so maybe it's been removed.

Best left well alone imo.


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## Elles

> Did you know that on the Parelli website you can actually buy a left handed training rope.


ROFL! No, I didn't know that, going to look to see what's different about it. :lol:


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## lucylastic

Look for the 45ft training line. It really is available in a right or left handed version. Your post about Alexander dominating his horses confirms what I was thinking. That explains why they all look so flat and unhappy. Depriving a herd animal of company is just so unnatural.


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## Nonnie

lucylastic said:


> I've watched quite a few video clips but don't know anything about his training methods. IMO though the horses look uncomfortable and unhappy. The expression 'learned helplessness' springs to mind. I see no beauty or harmony in what he does.
> He is another like Pat Parelli that has an unhealthy cult like following. Did you know that on the Parelli website you can actually buy a left handed training rope.


A general unhappy look seems to be common in American stock horses, so much so i wonder if its a breed trait.

More than likely resulting from training methods though.

Although i spent some time on a ranch in Montana, where they used training along the lines of Monty Roberts, (although they'd laugh at you if you mentioned him) and apart from the semi wild mustangs they had, all the horses had a bored look on their faces and very little get up and go in them.


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## Elles

> A general unhappy look seems to be common in American stock horses, so much so i wonder if its a breed trait.


I know what you mean, a resigned look. Some of the training methods in reining are very abusive imo.

The QH Copy who was Monty's ride on his tour of the UK, a very sweet horse who was gifted to the guys who have him now, had suffered physical strains from his work, so was brought back into work carefully, with spins and sliding stops performed only rarely. Tied up outside his stable, he looked half dead, yet was very responsive and quite sharp when he was worked.

Quarter horses have a reputation for very sweet, quiet temperaments, but I have seen plenty who have a spark about them. You're probably right about the training of some of them and that their get up and go has got up and gone.


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## Nonnie

Elles said:


> I know what you mean, a resigned look. Some of the training methods in reining are very abusive imo.
> 
> The QH Copy who was Monty's ride on his tour of the UK, a very sweet horse who was gifted to the guys who have him now, had suffered physical strains from his work, so was brought back into work carefully, with spins and sliding stops performed only rarely. Tied up outside his stable, he looked half dead, yet was very responsive and quite sharp when he was worked.
> 
> Quarter horses have a reputation for very sweet, quiet temperaments, but I have seen plenty who have a spark about them. You're probably right about the training of some of them and that their get up and go has got up and gone.


I rode a Morgan called Pokey. Firey little bugger who tried to unseat me numerous time

Its imteresting the difference in working horses when you stick cattle infront of them. Pleasure riding seems to bore them, but they seem to tune in when it comes to working.

No to keen on a lot of the Western riding styles and equipment, and most certainly not a fan of rodeo events. Even barrel racing didnt sit right with me.


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## lucylastic

45-Foot Line Left Handed
and only £78.67
what a bargain


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## Elles

Looked it up, if it's the same as normal rope, it's the twist of the rope that is left or right handed, S or Z. 

Right handed rope coils best clockwise, left handed rope coils best anti-clockwise.

Why it would matter with a Parelli line, I don't know. I suppose 45' is pretty long, so you'd want to be able to coil it in the direction you're most comfortable with. 

Amazing what you learn from PetForums. 

I'd like to buy a couple of new halters, had mine for about 15 years, but I'll have to find a PNH member to buy them for me.  I like the rope they're made from and the rope the ropes are made from. Couldn't find anything as good at my local chandlers or I'd make them myself.


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