# labour has stopped, how long shall I leave??



## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

Need some quick advice.........

How long would other breeders allow between the birth of kittens. I have had queens deliver a kitten and then nothing for several hours but now I am getting worried. First kitten was delivered 24 hours ago. Labour basically stopped and mum has been happy caring for kitten. There are stillmore kittens inside. I know this from observation and palpation and I can see them move. I did think labour was starting a couple of hours ago so I was happy and confident but it seems to have stopped again. 

Do I wait a little longer or is it time to make a trip. Obviously I have major concerns about anaestetics ect but when is enough enough. Mum is a british shorthair. 3 years old and its her second litter.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

My queen had another healthy kitten 36 hours after the first kittens had arrived, i phoned the vet and they wasnt too concerned, its when they are pushing for longer than 15 minutes you need to worry.


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

Thats reasurred me a bit. She not pushing, not showing signs of being exhausted and has no temp or any thing. Just quiet happily snoozing whilst I stress and pace!!!!!hmy:


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

M40WFE said:


> I did think labour was starting a couple of hours ago so I was happy and confident but it seems to have stopped again


May I ask, what made you think labour was re-starting as per the above?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

If im honest I myself would be a little worried by now and probably would have gone vets to check it out.

The longest iv had to wait is 12 hours between kittens.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

I would check it out with the vets, I would be worried. When we had our first litter Mia had two lovely kittens and labour stopped, we had no idea there was anymore inside her, two days later she went into labour and was struggling so we took her to the vets, sadly she had the last kitten but it was stillborn. I would let the vet see her.
All the best and let us know how she goes.


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

thanks for reply every one. here is what happened. At 1755 Ethel was scanned. 2 kittens still inside. the presenting kitten was showing signs that it was tired (the membranes had ruptured on this one). kitten 2 was happy. an injection of oxytocin was given as the problem was lack of contractions. after 20 min Ethel started pushing. kitten was breech presentation. At 1855 as there was no advancement of kitten a decision was made for section. the vet took Ethel to get her prepared for the vet starting at 1900 to do the section. we went home as advised. At 2056 I rang for news.b rceptitonist told me they were husband way through the section so she would ring when she had news. I stopped her and told her the section was meant to be getting started at 1900!!!!!!!! she giggled nervously and said well its getting done now. 2140 the vet rang. Ethel is waking up. first kitten dead. 2nd kitten barely alive with not much hope. when questioned as to the delay in starting my answer was and is not quite clear. he decided that because kitten was in birth canal it could be passed!!! so this is what happen so of course it was born still born. he turn started the section at 1945. 50 minutes after the first vet advised me a section was needed to attempt to save kittens. early 2 hours after scanning and diagnosing kitten one was starting to struggle. I am now on my way to the Vets,to get mum and her babies!


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

please excuse spellings and predictive txt. as every one can imagine I am extremely upset and can't believe that they told me section was at 7 and they did not do it x


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

That second kitten will need warmth and viggorous stimulation. I had one like this last year that was given to me all but dead and I managed to pull him through it. Heat and stimulation are the key. Good luck.


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## sharon_gurney (Jan 27, 2010)

Im really sorry that you have lost the kitten, I would be extremely angry if my vet waited all that time to do a section.

If a section was deemed necessary I would have wanted it done there and then.

Take mum home and get her settled then I would be asking for an explanation in the morning.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Well this bring back some memories to me.

Pretty bad service if you ask me I wouldn't be happy at all.

At least you have mum and some kittens.

Agree with carly keep this kitten super warm and try to get it latching onto mum.

I had one same after rubbish service from vets but we lost him.

Fingers cross.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

why do vets do this, either the cat needs an emergency c-section in which case it should be done immediately.

im sorry you lost the little one, i blame your vet for this.


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

on my way now. I am devastated that I left her there to be put to sleep and they proceeded without my knowledge to get her to deliver the breech kitten for a further 50 min despite her already pushing for 20 min with no advancement, at end of day she is my pet aswell and no one at any point rang me to state they were changing the plan and put her through that


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Totally cc I agree chances are the birth canal kit wouldn't have made it due to how long it had been there,but the final kitten would most probably been in better condition if the op had been preformed sooner.
I think the cat had been given long enough chance to deliver s it was.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I dont have experience with sections, when my queen stopped labour i could still feel a kitten inside, vet said all is fine and to wait, i waited and luckily in my case the kitten was born 36 hours later and no problems.
All her kittens was breech but would i have waited in this instance, well to be honest i would. would it have been the right decision, i dont know.

I would change vets though as this is awful.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

What a sad outcome  Sending positive thoughts for the last little one. I am so sorry that you have lost one of the kits and am at a loss as to understand the vet's actions - your poor queen  What an awful ordeal it has been for her.


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

hi,

Ethel home with the one baby she delivered at home before going to Vets. the vet delivered one baby breech which died and 2 by section. the had all died before I got to Vets. the 3 she lost were beautiful. I asked to see them. I questioned again the delay. various answers came about mid communication, as the vet on call I made a decision, out come would not of changed had the section been at 1300, 1400, they did then mention in their opinion the whole sectioning of Ethel had been left too long, ie I should of took her sooner. not sure how that one works in regards to him saint it would not.org mattered had the section of been done.at 1300 or 1600 the out come would of been the same. sad sad night for Ethel and her babies. her little one (first born) is doing well.so I am going to try and focus on the positive which feels hard at the moment :-(


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

M40WFE said:


> hi,
> 
> Ethel home with the one baby she delivered at home before going to Vets. the vet delivered one baby breech which died and 2 by section. the had all died before I got to Vets. the 3 she lost were beautiful. I asked to see them. I questioned again the delay. various answers came about mid communication, as the vet on call I made a decision, out come would not of changed had the section been at 1300, 1400, they did then mention in their opinion the whole sectioning of Ethel had been left too long, ie I should of took her sooner. not sure how that one works in regards to him saint it would not.org mattered had the section of been done.at 1300 or 1600 the out come would of been the same. sad sad night for Ethel and her babies. her little one (first born) is doing well.so I am going to try and focus on the positive which feels hard at the moment :-(


Well at least she has the one baby and I wish you luck with it.What colour is baby?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Also just wanted to add my girl was only left 4 hours after first dead kit was born,oxyticin was given 2 hour after 1st kit was born,a section was done we lost 2 kits and saved 2. So im my case even that was too long.


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

Our kitten which was born at home is a chocolate tabby girl. was devastated leaving the 3 lost babies at the Vets. they looked shocked when I asked to see them. I am still angry and upset that I left her there for a section with my consent and at 2053 they were only half way through when the decision was made at 1855. if the vet had started when he said he had which was 1945......when I rang she had already been under anaesthetic for 1 hour and 10 min and that was half way through. a human baby would have problems toleration a general anaesthetic for that long and its way bigger and the drugs are better controlled so kittens weighing grams I guess are going to struggle with that..van any one advise me on how long a section normally takes on a cat??

don't get me wrong every one. I am grateful mum is with me and we have a baby but I am still going to speak to vet!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

What a shame it ended that way, at least your girl and the singleton are ok. Vets often don't know too much about breeding sadly.

Is it usual to leave a cat at the vets like that? Everyone I know who's needed a c-section has stayed and been in surgery with the cat to assist getting the kittens going.


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

I wish I had stated, hindsight :-( 
the vet asked me to sign the consent and leave a contact telephone number and they would ring as soon as there was news. I presumed this was the normal. I have never needed vet intervention for a delivery before. I no of people who have but I have never discussed the ins and outs of it all. 
I now could kick myself for not staying, at the time I was as I stressed and worried that I put ourselves in the Vets hands and took there advice x


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Not your fault at all, I was just wondering as things do differ country to country. 

They are the ones who didn't act in a timely manner once you arrived at the clinic.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Had you stayed I feel the outcome would have been the same.


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

re out come The same, perhaps so. I just wish the younger on call vet who had come in had stuck to the plan made by The senior vet or at least told me he had changed his mind on performing a section straight away. I guess I am now putting done blame on my self for sitting awaiting her labour to begin again. I have seen and heard of do many times when labour stops and then restarts, even after hours and hours. I guess when things go wrong it's easy to blame others or ourselves. guess its time to look to the positive and hopefully watch Ethel be a good mummy to our precious baby x


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> What a shame it ended that way, at least your girl and the singleton are ok. Vets often don't know too much about breeding sadly.
> 
> Is it usual to leave a cat at the vets like that? Everyone I know who's needed a c-section has stayed and been in surgery with the cat to assist getting the kittens going.


yeah sc's here they ask you to go home and they will call you once the cats ready to be collected.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

So sorry to hear you lost the babies, I can't understand why the vet waited so long before operating, hope Mum and her single baby are ok and will continue to do well.
It must be heartbreaking for you to have gone through this.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I leave my cats with my vet for a C section, but that's only because I trust her implicitly, and have seen her work and work and work to get kittens going. She will take them home with her if they're very weak for breeders who can't cope, and even offered to take one of mine last time, but I always think a breeder knows best when it comes to care of neonates, so always have mine at home with me.

I'm really cross at the actioins of your ve.t That's a long time to be under. Last year, mine took an hour for everything, section, getting kits going etc.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

OP, I'm sorry to read it turned out that way. I don't think you should blame yourself at all for delaying initially; in most circumstances such as these there's never a completely 'right' or 'wrong' thing to do.

The subject though, as others have gone on to discuss here, has always confounded me a bit. The vet I'm currently with (and have been for 3.5 years) is a one man band operation - i.e. only one vet at the practice. The two sections he has performed on my girls were OOH and carried out promptly as there were no other patients to deal with. In the case of my vet practice though and it would be the same for other one vet only practices, what *should* happen when it's decided a section is needed but this falls within surgery hours when there are other emergencies/a waiting room full of clients? On the one hand, I wouldn't expect my vet to drop everything else and send all his waiting clients home to spend 2+ hours on a section - but equally I think I'd be quite dismayed if surgery couldn't go ahead for 2-3 hours until outside of surgery hours in the morning & afternoon/early evening. How do other people feel about this situation?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

carly87 said:


> <snip>
> I'm really cross at the actioins of your ve.t That's a long time to be under. Last year, mine took an hour for everything, section, getting kits going etc.


The OP says the sction was started at 1945, and at 2140 the vet rang "Ethel is waking up."

So the section itself didn't take a huge amount of time, but they delayed for some time before starting it.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

My vet does drop everything to do a section. After all, it's risking more than just one life. If there was a huge emergency then she'd obviously deal with that first, but we have a good enough relationship that she knows that I don't ask for them unless they're needed.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

carly87 said:


> My vet does drop everything to do a section. After all, it's risking more than just one life. If there was a huge emergency then she'd obviously deal with that first, but we have a good enough relationship that she knows that I don't ask for them unless they're needed.


I think, Carly, that you're extremely fortunate with your vet but I'm only saying that based on MY past experience of vets and how they prioritise. I don't think I've ever 'asked' my vet to perform a section; I've taken the cat along and if a section is deemed necessary, then that's what happens.

Much as I would like to have a vet who I thought would instantly drop everything for me, I still somehow can't feel convinced that my vet would, effectively, send home a waiting room full of clients... nor do I actually feel that he *should*.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm incredibly lucky, but I'm selfish enough to not care about the other clients with minor complaints when it comes to saving the lives of my kittens. Twice now I've had to request a C section. Twice the vet has come out to see the cat and checked her over, and twice has agreed that what I've asked for is appropriate. One of those C sections was just as morning surgery was aobut to start. Thankfully she's not the only vet in the practice, but she's the only one that's in such hot demand that it's difficult to get an appointment with her, so effectively, lots of people were sent home or asked to wait that day. However, she's so efficient with her ops that my cats are rarely under for more than an hour, and then she's back to work again.

I am very, very fortunate to have this lady, and am thankful for her every day.


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

Hi all,

vet rang me today and said he did not see what my issues were. he said the section was started at 1945 and this is not a delay, infact he thinks this is very good going!! when he said at 1855 we need to section Ethel to give the kittens the best chance and therefore we will get her prepped for the next vet who comes on at 1900 as she needs a section sooner rather than later did not mean she would get her section at 1945 so he is not sure why I would think she would be sectioned at 1900!!!! I told him as not being a vet and understanding in lay terms that I presumed prepping Ethel so when the next vet came on at 1900 he could get straight on meant to me 1900. he told me that when the vet did arrive he had another emergency to sort out. he said a cat needed to be catheterised. I said I had to trust his professional opinion that that was more urgent than the kittens who were in distress. I also enquired as to how long the op should take. he responses with just like a human a couple of hours at least. I treasurers him that intact in an emergency it takes minutes to get a human baby out and I now this as its my job!!!! his reply.......I don't believe that, my wife section took 2 hours. maybe I thought as there are different classifications of sections in the human world, but what about my cat!!!!

he has advised me when he said sooner rather than later what he actually meant was she needs it before midnight. that is not what he said!! he told me as there was a breech in the birth canal the vet decided to catheterised the other cat. may I remind every one Ethel had been pushing for 20 min with no advancement in the Vets. the whole time feet were


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

oops sent too soon!

feet were seen. so the plan was section and at no time was I contacted to state the new vet had decided to let her go on and on.. 

any way. according to the vet, there was no delay, its normal to wait an hour or 2 for a section, therefore I have no issue. unfortunately the kittens were lost due to the anaesthetic and if the same situation occurred or he had been on duty he would of done the same thing. what do I think?? I can't say it on this forum!!!!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

carly87 said:


> My vet does drop everything to do a section.


I really don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. Likewise I have had appointments pushed back or cancelled due to others having an emergency at the old clinic I went to - didn't bother me in the slightest.

My current vets is a breeding specialist clinic so they're used to labour emergencies and have the facilities to deal with that.



M40WFE said:


> may I remind every one Ethel had been pushing for 20 min with no advancement in the Vets. the whole time feet were seen


Why didn't they pull the kitten out? I lost a breech kitten because there was nothing to grab, soon as there was I pulled him out. And that was only minutes, not 20.

How has your girl settled with her kitten?


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## M40WFE (Jan 27, 2012)

Hi,

She is still not herself. Sleeping most of the time but the kitten is managing to latch herself on so thats good. Felt so sorry for her yesterday as mum started to wet herself. She eventually got to litter tray. She looks so sad and depressed. Hopefully she will bounce back to her old self in next few days x


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor girl, hope she feels better soon. 

I've not had any luck with my girls raising singletons for long, and that's with a normal start.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> I really don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. Likewise I have had appointments pushed back or cancelled due to others having an emergency at the old clinic I went to - didn't bother me in the slightest.
> 
> My current vets is a breeding specialist clinic so they're used to labour emergencies and have the facilities to deal with that.
> 
> ...


Iv had to do that before sc's was a huge kitten,singleton  127g and mums 1st litter,lucky kitten indeed was a very long labour.


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