# Itchy dogs/skin problems solved (Important)



## excellium (Apr 25, 2014)

By all means try to find out what is causing an allergy or skin problem first. I have a 4 year old Black Labrador who has had mild to very severe itching/licking and skin problems since he was six months old. Scabby scaly skin, discoloured skin, loss of hair, and even bleeding from the raw wounds where he constntly scratches. I have tried everything and everything, steroids (which I have tried to limit) shampoos, herbal remedies, hibi scrub, piriton, anti-histamines. All the treatments I have tried, only anti-histamines like piriton work but I have to give him so much it makes him lethargic and constantly sleeping. Two weeks ago I went to my vet and I had never seen here before. She mentioned a new drug called Apoquel that had only been released in January. She asked me to think about it as it had little or no side effects. Over the Easter bank holiday weekend Barney itched and scratched until his paws bled. Usually at this stage it would be another steroid injection. 
The vet told me she had only tried it on one dog so far and it had made no difference. I decided I had nothing to lose so decided to give it a try. Within an hour Barney's itching and scratching had subsided. Within 4 hours it had stopped. That night for the first time in weeks his constant licking never woke me up. Its now day 4 and I really cannot emphasize the change in him. I have a new dog, its absolutely incredible. As an added bonus his skin is improving daily and all the scabs and scales are vanishing and clearing up. His discoloured skin is starting to return to its pink colour. 
The vet said he may get vomiting and diarrhea but apart from one bout of being sick he is fine. Faeces have remained normal, he has a lot more energy and is clearly a lot happier. I am so relieved to see him now. 
One thing I have found out is that the dog being treated has to have certain skin receptors for it to work and obviously Barney has them. The manufacturers claim it works in 85% of dogs. Well it has certainly worked on Barney. Its easy to look up on the internet if you want to know more about it but I am overjoyed with the results. 
The tablets come in 3 sizes according to dog weight. Barney is on 16mg which is the highest. The cost will be about £1.26 a tablet once the initial two weeks of treatment which is two tablets a day. This then reduces to one tablet a day as the maintenance dose. Dogs have to be over 12 months old to take it. Try it and I hope it works for you. Good luck but had to share this.


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

We've just had Willow put on this on Wednesday  my fingers are firmly crossed! Glad its worked for you


----------



## Kchip (Jan 2, 2014)

excellium said:


> By all means try to find out what is causing an allergy or skin problem first. I have a 4 year old Black Labrador who has had mild to very severe itching/licking and skin problems since he was six months old. Scabby scaly skin, discoloured skin, loss of hair, and even bleeding from the raw wounds where he constntly scratches. I have tried everything and everything, steroids (which I have tried to limit) shampoos, herbal remedies, hibi scrub, piriton, anti-histamines. All the treatments I have tried, only anti-histamines like piriton work but I have to give him so much it makes him lethargic and constantly sleeping. Two weeks ago I went to my vet and I had never seen here before. She mentioned a new drug called Apoquel that had only been released in January. She asked me to think about it as it had little or no side effects. Over the Easter bank holiday weekend Barney itched and scratched until his paws bled. Usually at this stage it would be another steroid injection.
> The vet told me she had only tried it on one dog so far and it had made no difference. I decided I had nothing to lose so decided to give it a try. Within an hour Barney's itching and scratching had subsided. Within 4 hours it had stopped. That night for the first time in weeks his constant licking never woke me up. Its now day 4 and I really cannot emphasize the change in him. I have a new dog, its absolutely incredible. As an added bonus his skin is improving daily and all the scabs and scales are vanishing and clearing up. His discoloured skin is starting to return to its pink colour.
> The vet said he may get vomiting and diarrhea but apart from one bout of being sick he is fine. Faeces have remained normal, he has a lot more energy and is clearly a lot happier. I am so relieved to see him now.
> One thing I have found out is that the dog being treated has to have certain skin receptors for it to work and obviously Barney has them. The manufacturers claim it works in 85% of dogs. Well it has certainly worked on Barney. Its easy to look up on the internet if you want to know more about it but I am overjoyed with the results.
> The tablets come in 3 sizes according to dog weight. Barney is on 16mg which is the highest. The cost will be about £1.26 a tablet once the initial two weeks of treatment which is two tablets a day. This then reduces to one tablet a day as the maintenance dose. Dogs have to be over 12 months old to take it. Try it and I hope it works for you. Good luck but had to share this.


Hmm interesting that your username is that of a pharmaceutical company.


----------



## astra (Sep 27, 2010)

I pay 70p a tablet online for my mums Bichon smaller dose,but sadly they haven't worked for him. He's been on them for a month now, I think the next step will be full allergy testing.


----------



## excellium (Apr 25, 2014)

Really Kchip. I am unaware of that. I really am an overjoyed dog lover to see my dog happy. I can assure you I dont work or represent a pharmaceutical company of any kind. Its really worked for Barney, just wanted to share.


----------



## excellium (Apr 25, 2014)

They should work in a few hours astra according to my vet and my research. if they dont work in a week apparently they are not going to work at all.


----------



## excellium (Apr 25, 2014)

By the way Kchip my username is something I use for everything and is the name of a petrol company as well.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Personally I am not comfortable trying drugs like this until it's the very end. Atopica was this wonder drug but essentially increases the risk of tumours. I'm not going to try something for my dog because someone on the internet reckons it's great. Even more dubious when it is someone's first post on a forum. Unless mine are at death's door with a skin condition they won't have anything like this.


----------



## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Read with interest as Maisie is going to the vet with her itchiness this morning - when I spoke to the practice owner yesterday he mentioned there was a new drug recently out so I'm wondering if this could be it

I am 100% convinced it's environmental - her skin is healthy & white colour but she does have the odd bite which I'm pretty sure are the cause of her itching

She is allergic to ticks (comes up in the most horrid huge lump if she gets one) so she may well be allergic to other critters that live in grass / sand etc too 

I have ordered a Scalibor collar which I'm hoping might help if it's sand flies and have also tried Advocate (which did work at the end of last year when we thought it was the harvest mites bothering her) but that sadly has had little effect this time

I'm not hugely comfortable with her having steriods / drugs long term if it can be helped BUT I also know she can't go on itching / scratching / chewing herself like she is just now


----------



## Kchip (Jan 2, 2014)

excellium said:


> By the way Kchip my username is something I use for everything and is the name of a petrol company as well.


Apologies then for my scepticism (sincerely) :blush2:


----------



## excellium (Apr 25, 2014)

Thank you Golden Shadow for your warm welcome. I am merely trying to share my experience. Its up to individuals to make their own decisions about their dogs. I am 57 years old have had dogs since I was 17 so I do have a lot of experience. My dog was going through a life of hell similar to your own. In five days I have a happy content dog. That's all that matters.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm very interested in Apoquel. It is cheaper than Atopica and has fewer side effects than that and steroids (though of course nothing is free of side effects completely).

Only used it a few times so far but has worked very well in all cases to date.

I hope it turns out to be useful.


----------



## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Shoshannah said:


> I'm very interested in Apoquel. It is cheaper than Atopica and has fewer side effects than that and steroids (though of course nothing is free of side effects completely).
> 
> Only used it a few times so far but has worked very well in all cases to date.
> 
> I hope it turns out to be useful.


Just back from the vets & we have gone with trying steroids first

My vet did mention Apoquel but says she hasn't yet prescribed it and, although she has received a fact sheet on it, she wanted to do a bit more research into it first & speak with a couple of the other vets in the practice as she's aware they've prescribed it to a few dogs recently to see how it's worked for them

excellium - glad to hear it's helping your boy & fingers crossed he continues to do well


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Lilylass said:


> Just back from the vets & we have gone with trying steroids first
> 
> My vet did mention Apoquel but says she hasn't yet prescribed it and, although she has received a fact sheet on it, she wanted to do a bit more research into it first & speak with a couple of the other vets in the practice as she's aware they've prescribed it to a few dogs recently to see how it's worked for them


That's fair enough.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

excellium said:


> Thank you Golden Shadow for your warm welcome. I am merely trying to share my experience. Its up to individuals to make their own decisions about their dogs. I am 57 years old have had dogs since I was 17 so I do have a lot of experience. My dog was going through a life of hell similar to your own. In five days I have a happy content dog. That's all that matters.


By having such an ill dog you will no doubt understand my concern at such recommendations as to what other people should do for their pets. It is up to individuals, but some people get to such a point of desperation they will try anything and I think it is incredibly important for people to receive unbiased information wherever possible. Nobody like you or I can give unbiased opinions in this sector because we have too much experience to be impartial. You are advocating people try this new drug. I am saying I think people need to seriously consider heavy research before they do anything. There are many people who have stopped using Atopica since reading research with its links to tumour growth. People should have as much information as possible to hand when making decisions regarding dogs which are often so gravely ill. The website for this new drug does not have sufficient information for pet owners IMO.


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

GoldenShadow said:


> By having such an ill dog you will no doubt understand my concern at such recommendations as to what other people should do for their pets. It is up to individuals, but some people get to such a point of desperation they will try anything and I think it is incredibly important for people to receive unbiased information wherever possible. Nobody like you or I can give unbiased opinions in this sector because we have too much experience to be impartial. You are advocating people try this new drug. I am saying I think people need to seriously consider heavy research before they do anything. There are many people who have stopped using Atopica since reading research with its links to tumour growth. People should have as much information as possible to hand when making decisions regarding dogs which are often so gravely ill. *The website for this new drug does not have sufficient information for pet owners IMO*.


Bolded bit i agree with .. they say 'see the packet leaflet for further info on side effects' - i got 14 tablets in a 20tablet box.. but no leaflet. I will be asking for the leaflet on Thursday when we go back to the vets, especially if he wants us to carry on using them. If the vets was closer to home i would of gone back for it but theres one of the con's of going further afield to look for a 'good' vet 
ETA - think ive found a copy of the leaflet online but obviously cant be sure if it matches a packet one. http://www.premiervetalliance.co.uk...Apoquel-datasheet-Zoetis-Approved-19Sep13.pdf


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JenSteWillow said:


> Bolded bit i agree with .. they say 'see the packet leaflet for further info on side effects' - i got 14 tablets in a 20tablet box.. but no leaflet. I will be asking for the leaflet on Thursday when we go back to the vets, especially if he wants us to carry on using them. If the vets was closer to home i would of gone back for it but theres one of the con's of going further afield to look for a 'good' vet
> ETA - think ive found a copy of the leaflet online but obviously cant be sure if it matches a packet one. http://www.premiervetalliance.co.uk...Apoquel-datasheet-Zoetis-Approved-19Sep13.pdf


I can relate to that. My vet is only 10 miles away but there are about 15 in a closer vicinity I choose not to go to because I think mine are better..! Four times in three days I've been there..!

Its the mechanism of how the drug acts that I don't think is explained very well. Being so new, its hard to understand long term what any effects might be. With Atopica it took a certain amount of time to fully understand the mechanism. Essentially it stops the body from attacking itself i.e. its own cells, but in the same breath, when mutated cells form it allows them to grow. It cannot choose which ones to ignore. Hence, some mutated cells are able to grow and may be cancerous.

The fact that side effects etc were studied for 'over two years' doesn't fill me with massive hope either. I just daren't trust anything until either a) its been around a long time and there is extensive research to make an informed decision or b) we're at that point where potential long term side effects no longer matter.


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

GoldenShadow said:


> I can relate to that. My vet is only 10 miles away but there are about 15 in a closer vicinity I choose not to go to because I think mine are better..! Four times in three days I've been there..!
> 
> Its the mechanism of how the drug acts that I don't think is explained very well. Being so new, its hard to understand long term what any effects might be. With Atopica it took a certain amount of time to fully understand the mechanism. Essentially it stops the body from attacking itself i.e. its own cells, but in the same breath, when mutated cells form it allows them to grow. It cannot choose which ones to ignore. Hence, some mutated cells are able to grow and may be cancerous.
> 
> The fact that side effects etc were studied for 'over two years' doesn't fill me with massive hope either. I just daren't trust anything until either a) its been around a long time and there is extensive research to make an informed decision or b) we're at that point where potential long term side effects no longer matter.


The whole immune system thing has alarm bells ringing in my head and the fact that if a human swallows one you need medical help straight away.. the idea i'm letting my dog swallow something that i can't is weird. We're only on them for a week but they seem to have helped.. but she is on 2 other tablets and malaseb shampoo so who knows which one is actually making the difference. Having to keep an open mind.


----------



## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

GoldenShadow said:


> I can relate to that. My vet is only 10 miles away but there are about 15 in a closer vicinity I choose not to go to because I think mine are better..! Four times in three days I've been there..!
> 
> Its the mechanism of how the drug acts that I don't think is explained very well. Being so new, its hard to understand long term what any effects might be. With Atopica it took a certain amount of time to fully understand the mechanism. Essentially it stops the body from attacking itself i.e. its own cells, but in the same breath, when mutated cells form it allows them to grow. It cannot choose which ones to ignore. Hence, some mutated cells are able to grow and may be cancerous.
> 
> The fact that side effects etc were studied for 'over two years' doesn't fill me with massive hope either. I just daren't trust anything until either a) its been around a long time and there is extensive research to make an informed decision or b) we're at that point where potential long term side effects no longer matter.


Another one who travels for a good vet 

However, their OOH is even further and does worry me & I may have to move 

I also worry about new drugs & the length of time they've been around - is 2 years really long enough to know what things could happen?

I don't really know BUT I haven't researched the drug a lot (had a quick read this morning) and I don't know whether you can take the dog off it over the winter if it's for seasonal allergies which may be OK



JenSteWillow said:


> The whole immune system thing has alarm bells ringing in my head and the fact that if a human swallows one you need medical help straight away.. the idea i'm letting my dog swallow something that i can't is weird. We're only on them for a week but they seem to have helped.. but she is on 2 other tablets and malaseb shampoo so who knows which one is actually making the difference. Having to keep an open mind.


That's the trouble when you try different things at the same time - which is really working

However, I will say Maisie had her first dose of steroids when we came back at lunchtime and I'm sure she's not itched as much already 

I'm sure it's not just me imagining it but do they really work that quickly?

OR could it maybe be down to the fact she went down a steep incline - despite a NO from me as I knew the water was deep down there  and sunk without a trace .... reappeared with a panicked look on her face and managed to drag herself out the water & back up the bank - and she's maybe managed to wash all of whatever is irritating her off for today

(Honestly, I've never known a Lab hate to swim as much  - paddling she loves but not above belly height!)


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JenSteWillow said:


> The whole immune system thing has alarm bells ringing in my head and the fact that if a human swallows one you need medical help straight away.. the idea i'm letting my dog swallow something that i can't is weird. We're only on them for a week but they seem to have helped.. but she is on 2 other tablets and malaseb shampoo so who knows which one is actually making the difference. Having to keep an open mind.


Its very hard 

They have no idea what is wrong with Rupert really. I feel as though it is something immune system related and some kind of hypersensitivity. Immune systems are things which can rarely be fixed very easily in people, let alone dogs. With a dog's lifespan being so much shorter I do wonder if that is why products are licensed for dogs. They simply won't be around to suffer the long term effects that humans would if they were to take it, living so much longer, you know?

I hope your pooch is on the way to recovery soon and you can find something that helps. I try to keep Rupert off steroids and medication as much as possible because he always gets withdrawal and skin issues coming off them. Long term side effects mean I don't want him on them, though..!

Damn skin issues


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Lilylass said:


> Another one who travels for a good vet
> 
> However, their OOH is even further and does worry me & I may have to move
> 
> ...


Exactly - the other tablet we are on is a steroid - i think! Vet only wanted a short strong burst as he doesn't agree with steroids in young dogs.. Came with a precaution that she will drink and wee more but she's actually wee'd herself twice in her sleep since being on them! So i'm slightly annoyed at that and how confused it's making her - although the wee on the OH was funny  as they were cuddled up. So i don't like the idea of having these again.

Lol, aww bless her! I hope you get to the bottom of whats itching her and it all works out ok 



GoldenShadow said:


> Its very hard
> 
> They have no idea what is wrong with Rupert really. I feel as though it is something immune system related and some kind of hypersensitivity. Immune systems are things which can rarely be fixed very easily in people, let alone dogs. With a dog's lifespan being so much shorter I do wonder if that is why products are licensed for dogs. They simply won't be around to suffer the long term effects that humans would if they were to take it, living so much longer, you know?
> 
> ...


I really feel for you. I remember reading your threads when researching Raw before we started on it and reading about the issues you've had  
I'd never thought about the life span thing  but very true when you think about it. I know i don't want medication being a long term thing and the vet agree'd really so i'm glad he understands.. but ultimately what i want is Willows life to be as happy as possible.. so if it means a tablet a day to stop her scratching herself raw/bleeding, being scabby and having no hair on any paws/hocks.. is that such a bad thing.. but i'm hoping a happy medium will appear and i don't have to think about that  
I really hope Rupert and you get some answers soon  xx


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Lilylass said:


> Another one who travels for a good vet
> 
> However, their OOH is even further and does worry me & I may have to move
> 
> ...


My OOH is 10 miles away but in the other direction. My own vets used to do their own emergencies which was a big part of why I went over to them. Then they stopped staffing their practise with their own staff over night and used VetsNow people, but now they don't take admissions in the night at all 

The receptionists are bloody awful lately too! They forgot to give me one of Rupert's items on Thursday so I had to get it on Fri. Then they rang me on Fri saying I had to come and get another thing which they'd told me they couldn't get/he didn't need, so I had to go back again today!

I'm sure you could stop the dose in winter as long as you weaned Maisie off, you can with most things can't you?


----------



## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

GoldenShadow said:


> Immune systems are things which can rarely be fixed very easily in people, let alone dogs. With a dog's lifespan being so much shorter I do wonder if that is why products are licensed for dogs. They simply won't be around to suffer the long term effects that humans would if they were to take it, living so much longer, you know?


Now ..... that's something I've never considered but could really be the case

I have 2 auto-immune diseases myself so am fairly clued up how immune systems work / how they go wrong etc

I've also been trying to keep Maisie off steroids as I have them myself on a fairly regular basis and I know all too well the side effects they can have BUT I also know I generally feel instantly better when on them & they're often the lesser evil compared to some of the really horrid drugs I have to take - and I'm really hoping that a short term dose can sort her out / help

She's itching again


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JenSteWillow said:


> Exactly - the other tablet we are on is a steroid - i think! Vet only wanted a short strong burst as he doesn't agree with steroids in young dogs.. Came with a precaution that she will drink and wee more but she's actually wee'd herself twice in her sleep since being on them! So i'm slightly annoyed at that and how confused it's making her - although the wee on the OH was funny  as they were cuddled up. So i don't like the idea of having these again.
> 
> Lol, aww bless her! I hope you get to the bottom of whats itching her and it all works out ok
> 
> ...


Rupert gets very greedy and food possessive on steroids. Not good with two other dogs..! Yes individual circumstances will affect what we all do. Thank you, re Rupert!



Lilylass said:


> Now ..... that's something I've never considered but could really be the case
> 
> I have 2 auto-immune diseases myself so am fairly clued up how immune systems work / how they go wrong etc
> 
> ...


When Rupert has a flare up I normally put him in a buster collar and clip the area so the air can get to it. If no better in 12 hours I start putting Fuciderm on the sore area (got Virbac powder to try now too, dry it out a bit quicker hopefully). If no better again within 24 hours then I start him on steroids. If I give him 2.5mg pred that's normally enough to sort him out and send it on the way to healing. Another time 2.5mg, day off, day off, 2.5mg and no more.

Rupert is *really* bad for withdrawal. Literally you wean him off and he's fine, six weeks later, BOOM skin flare up back with vengeance and so much worse than the last time. That's why I try to give him the most minuscule amount, because I know withdrawal is where we come unstuck. And he's had pancreatitis so I have to be really careful about giving him steroids now too.

As bad as the side effects are steroids work very well for Rupert too. I'm thankful he is as steroid free as he is. As they've been used for much longer, whilst I dislike using steroids, I'm much more comfortable using them as a quick go to than anything else on the market.

Hope she's feeling better soon! Have you tried EpiSoothe shampoo before? That's oatmeal based and releases soothing stuff even after you've washed it off. When Rupert is really bad I bath him in that and he gets a fair bit of instant relief for a couple days. Thankfully the days of bathing him in Hibiscrub are gone, made his coat like straw that stuff :eek6:


----------



## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

GoldenShadow said:


> Have you tried EpiSoothe shampoo before? That's oatmeal based and releases soothing stuff even after you've washed it off. When Rupert is really bad I bath him in that and he gets a fair bit of instant relief for a couple days. Thankfully the days of bathing him in Hibiscrub are gone, made his coat like straw that stuff :eek6:


Ohhhh not tried that one - thanks & def worth a try 

I tend to use Dermacton as it worked wonders with Ben's allergies - 3 months every summer he had a horrible almost burn like raw, weeping horrid rash that ran the entire length of his tum  - but willing to try something else if it might help her a bit

I've been bathing Maisie's legs in very dilute Hibiscrub when we come back from walks but obviously had hoped whatever it was that's upsetting her wouldn't be long term as I really don't want to use that for any length of time

Unfortunately Maisie HATES being bathed  (and brushed) - I think it must be a throwback to her showing days & being 'messed around with' IYKWIM

She will also only paddle in water and HATES being wet all over so I'll maybe try just try just doing her legs / tummy and seeing if that makes it any more bearable for her


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

JenSteWillow said:


> Bolded bit i agree with .. they say 'see the packet leaflet for further info on side effects' - i got 14 tablets in a 20tablet box.. but no leaflet. I will be asking for the leaflet on Thursday when we go back to the vets, especially if he wants us to carry on using them. If the vets was closer to home i would of gone back for it but theres one of the con's of going further afield to look for a 'good' vet
> ETA - think ive found a copy of the leaflet online but obviously cant be sure if it matches a packet one. http://www.premiervetalliance.co.uk...Apoquel-datasheet-Zoetis-Approved-19Sep13.pdf


Yes, that's the correct datasheet.

The logistics of datasheets are SUCH a pain - forward-thinking companies send several copies with drugs upon ordering, so that a copy can be popped in with every batch of medications dispensed. Other companies do not, so we get one leaflet for every order and then we are stuck when it comes to dispensing. :huh:

I have ended up making photocopies before but it's very time-consuming for someone as technically impaired as me, especially when done under time pressure.

For future reference, you can access all datasheets on the NOAH Compendium site:
NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Datasheets - Introduction
These are all the same as the leaflets you get in the medication box.

Any medications that are not licensed for veterinary use will of course not have official datasheets - just two examples of widely used off-licence medications in the UK are Zantac and Tramadol.


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Shoshannah said:


> Yes, that's the correct datasheet.
> 
> The logistics of datasheets are SUCH a pain - forward-thinking companies send several copies with drugs upon ordering, so that a copy can be popped in with every batch of medications dispensed. Other companies do not, so we get one leaflet for every order and then we are stuck when it comes to dispensing. :huh:
> 
> ...


Oh, i see.. obviously if there's only 1 per box, but they split boxes, there isn't going to be enough. Glad i found the right sheet. Thanks for the info


----------



## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

GoldenShadow said:


> My OOH is 10 miles away but in the other direction. My own vets used to do their own emergencies which was a big part of why I went over to them. Then they stopped staffing their practise with their own staff over night and used VetsNow people, but now they don't take admissions in the night at all


Sorry missed this earlier 

*sigh* our OOH is now over 30 miles away 

Nearest realistic one (apart from the one at the vets near me but I don't like them) is this side of Edinburgh which is still about 20 miles away

BUT 10 mile difference includes a really busy roundabout that you can easily queue 30 mins at during busy times 

Not going to be an issue if it's the middle of the night - but on a Sat or Sun afternoon, it could be



GoldenShadow said:


> I'm sure you could stop the dose in winter as long as you weaned Maisie off, you can with most things can't you?


I'm certainly hoping so

We have steroids for 3 weeks (heavy dose for 5 days & then reducing every 5 days) and then I think the plan is to see how she does once she's off them


----------



## excellium (Apr 25, 2014)

Hi, I have read with interest your comments. I can shed some light on a few things but some answers first. Barney has had steroids. It is fact they shorten dogs lives. I have been down that road with Barney but only when he got to the point of non-stop scratching. When on steroids he wees for England for starters and drinks non-stop although they do work for about 5 days before the scratching starts again and the whole process repeats itself. If he takes steroids he has to have the injection as oral tablets really mess with his digestion. He bleeds and within 24 hours I had to stop them as they were clearly damaging him. Steroids also mess with the kidneys and electrolytes due to the excess weeing. When I told the vet what had happened she told me he must never have them orally again. For some reason the injection seems to work for a limited time. 
I always research things as carefully as I can. I researched Apoquel for two weeks before I chose that path and the way it works which really is quite novel. It works by targeting an enzyme that skin receptors release telling the brain the skin is itching. The dog then scratches as the enzyme is telling the dog "I have an itch", scratch it. Apoquel targets and blocks the enzyme therefore the dogs brain does not receive the message to scratch. 
There is a downside. Not all dogs have the type of skin receptor that releases this enzyme. According to my research about 85% of dogs have it 15% do not. Therefore on the 15% it will not work. There are other estimates that put it as low as 67%. The pharmaceutical company who make it claim it works on 85% of dogs. It does not have the side effects of steroids because it works on a different part of the body. Side effects appear to be minimal. Diarrhea and vomiting seem to be the most common subsiding after a few days of treatment which I can verify. Barney has been sick once on the second day. 
There seem to be claims that a small minority can get skin issues. 
After weighing up all the pros and cons and steroids not being an option I decided to use it. Further to my last post Barney is in great form and also I have now noticed his fur is softer and his skin is now almost completely clear of scabs and dryness. He continues to make a remarkable improvement. Hope that helps.


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

excellium said:


> Hi, I have read with interest your comments. I can shed some light on a few things but some answers first. Barney has had steroids. It is fact they shorten dogs lives. I have been down that road with Barney but only when he got to the point of non-stop scratching. When on steroids he wees for England for starters and drinks non-stop although they do work for about 5 days before the scratching starts again and the whole process repeats itself. If he takes steroids he has to have the injection as oral tablets really mess with his digestion. He bleeds and within 24 hours I had to stop them as they were clearly damaging him. Steroids also mess with the kidneys and electrolytes due to the excess weeing. When I told the vet what had happened she told me he must never have them orally again. For some reason the injection seems to work for a limited time.
> I always research things as carefully as I can. I researched Apoquel for two weeks before I chose that path and the way it works which really is quite novel. It works by targeting an enzyme that skin receptors release telling the brain the skin is itching. The dog then scratches as the enzyme is telling the dog "I have an itch", scratch it. Apoquel targets and blocks the enzyme therefore the dogs brain does not receive the message to scratch.
> There is a downside. Not all dogs have the type of skin receptor that releases this enzyme. According to my research about 85% of dogs have it 15% do not. Therefore on the 15% it will not work. There are other estimates that put it as low as 67%. The pharmaceutical company who make it claim it works on 85% of dogs. It does not have the side effects of steroids because it works on a different part of the body. Side effects appear to be minimal. Diarrhea and vomiting seem to be the most common subsiding after a few days of treatment which I can verify. Barney has been sick once on the second day.
> There seem to be claims that a small minority can get skin issues.
> After weighing up all the pros and cons and steroids not being an option I decided to use it. Further to my last post Barney is in great form and also I have now noticed his fur is softer and his skin is now almost completely clear of scabs and dryness. He continues to make a remarkable improvement. Hope that helps.


I don't mean to come across as rude, that's really not my intention, i am genuinely interested.. but please could you post the links to where you got your info? Most of the stuff i've found is just from the packet and re-worded on different sites. As if my vet wants to carry on these when we see him on thurs, i want to have read up properly and talk through it properly 

Do you use anything else aswel as Apoquel ? Shampoo's/food supplements?
Before/After pics ? (Again, genuinely interested, i have 'before's' stored ready to take 'afters' when the drugs are used up .. i do this for all changes we make in anything  )

Thanks


----------



## excellium (Apr 25, 2014)

My decision was based on various factors.
1. I spoke to my primary vet who gave me the options.
2. I spoke to my previous vet who is almost a friend and South African but lives miles away. She has been until two years ago been our vet for many years. She is also an animal dermatological specialist. 
3. I read various reports on the internet including the manufacturer (to many to list). 
4. I spoke to a couple of owners who had used Apoquel already. 
5. I dont have before and after photographs. 

Having used steroids, tried almost everything on the market in shampoo, lotions, and sprays for me it was the best option.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Well let's hope you continue to have success Excellium. Two weeks isn't that long and it will be good to see in a year's time how Barney is doing. Sadly it always seems to take a long time to tell if anything is working for Rupert, usually a good 6 months - a year seeing as we don't know exactly what causes his issues. Fingers crossed this helps Barney long term and not just in the interim.


----------



## excellium (Apr 25, 2014)

Further to some enquiries I have had about information regarding Apoquel here is a link which gives quite detailed information about the drug. Hope you find it helpful. Apoquel Drugs.com | Prescription Drug Information, Interactions & Side Effects  Vet‎


----------



## Finnboy (Aug 1, 2013)

Hi.....I have just read this thread with interest as Finn has just returned from the vets with a fortnights worth of a "new drug to help with his itchiness".... I admit that in amongst the extensive vets treatments he's had over the last few months I just assumed they were more anti-inflammatories but after reading this I checked the packet and they are Apoquel so I'll see how we go.

Finn can't have any steroids right now as we are trying to control urinary incontinence with propalin and don't want to increase his thirst/urination. We've just treated him with Malaseb/Stronghold for potential sarcoptic mange then he's had a week of ear cleansing treatments for mites.....the vet is now pretty sure he is still chewing due to atopic dermatitis. He advised putting a collar on him for 24hrs and feels confident the Apoquel will resolve the itching in that time and his poor bleeding paws can heal.

He's back for bloods for allergy testing next week in the hope we can create a vaccine and help him long term.....thank god for a decent insurance policy as this pup has cost a bomb so far and he only had his first birthday last week!


----------



## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

Good luck with the Apoquel  its really worked for us. She no longer has bald sore itchy legs  & her ears are very clear.
We went from 2 tabs a day to 1 a day then ive weaned her down to 1 every 2/3 days now so i dont feel like im constantly drugging her . Hoping to wean it to less as time goes on. 

FYI .. Pics are a must


----------



## Finnboy (Aug 1, 2013)

Just testing with a photo of Finn....if it works I'll upload some of his skin x


----------



## Finnboy (Aug 1, 2013)

Aha.....techno-genius!.....I didn't take any of his sore bits when they were angry and red but here is how they look today after a few days with the cone of shame and plenty of sudocrem!


----------



## Finnboy (Aug 1, 2013)

This is his ear.....a week later after ear mite treatment....we never realised the scabby sores were caused by him scratching and we first thought he'd been stung by a bee causing swollen red lumps until the vet looked in his ears! This was one area we knew he couldn't be licking or chewing! Lol!


----------



## Finnboy (Aug 1, 2013)

I'm not clever enough to work out how to add more than one pic in a reply post! Sorry.....this are the very much improve bald spots on one of his inside front legs.....much recovered from sarcoptic mange treatment.....it's the front of his legs he now concentrates on creating big bleeding sores like the first pic above......funny we never really catch him eating his paws so he must sneak off a lot to do it. Big fingers crossed for the Apoquel.....especially as it won't affect his propalin treatment in the way steroids might!


----------



## Finnboy (Aug 1, 2013)

Collar sulking!!


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Ouch! Poor Finn and his cone of shame!

Fingers crossed the Apoquel works for him xxx


----------



## EAD (May 10, 2013)

Lily is an 11 year old westie, has had allergies since she was 2. Only seasonal from about April to September which we've kept under control with the immunotherapy vaccine, baths, piriton and the odd steroid injection.

Vet mentioned Apoquel this year but she mentioned side effects with urine and yeast which she already has problems with so we're not rushing to give her it.

I wonder how many people will give this drug without trying to find out the reason for itching.


----------



## branwen (Nov 27, 2013)

Dylan has always suffered with his Allergies.The dermatologist we saw when he was a pup said he was practically allergic to everything.He is going through a very bad patch at the moment.Chewing paws till they bleed,itching everywhere and ears are so red and sore.This year we have had to change his food as sensitivity control changed to Duck...which he is allergic too.I do think that he has a little intolerance to his new food too but as the vet said we don't have much of an option.Tried raw but didn't work.He has been given steroid tablets a few times over the years but even on a couple he is practically comatose and just wees himself daft.The last 2 times he has had a bleed..so we have agreed to no more steroid tablets for him.He has also been given a change of painkillers last month...maybe they have an effect on him too.Think I might have a chat about Apoquel with the vet this week and see what he says.


----------



## Finnboy (Aug 1, 2013)

What possible side effects can it have on urine? 

Finn has urinary incontinence and I'm confident our vet wouldn't knowingly do anything to make that worse as we've investigated the cause at length with blood tests and neuro tests.

We are trying desperately to find the underlying cause of Finns itching too hence the blood allergy tests on Wednesday.....we've already changed his diet, treated him for mange and ear mites, he's on piriton anyway and has regular malaseb baths......what more could we be doing? These treatments aren't helping him enough.

It's heartbreaking watching him with bleeding sores on top of everything else he's had to deal with in his first twelve months so if Apoquel relieves that for him while we continue his diagnosis tests then I will be happy.

I know there are potential side effects to any drug but surely it's a balancing act over likely potential gain for a dog that's miserable with the symptoms?


----------



## Finnboy (Aug 1, 2013)

Branwen......that's my biggest fear that these blood tests might show he's allergic to the world in general!

In light of his incontinence issues (which I'm hoping are linked from a stress related point of view...I.e discomfort, vets, treatments constantly...... given we've ruled everything else out....there's no proven link that I can find but we are getting to know our pup!) steroids are out for Finn.

I have to say he started his Apoquel on Friday night and he hasn't scratched or licked his sores yet! His legs are drying up beautifully and we took his collar off yesterday lunchtime which has made him happier and he hasn't leaked urine since last night either so fingers crossed. xxx


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

EAD said:


> Lily is an 11 year old westie, has had allergies since she was 2. Only seasonal from about April to September which we've kept under control with the immunotherapy vaccine, baths, piriton and the odd steroid injection.
> 
> Vet mentioned Apoquel this year but she mentioned side effects with urine and yeast which she already has problems with so we're not rushing to give her it.
> 
> I wonder how many people will give this drug without trying to find out the reason for itching.


Probably fewer than give steroids without finding out the reason, and they have more side effects than Apoquel, it seems.

I've seen a dog treated with steroids for severe itching. The steroids just weren't working. I did a couple of simple tape strips, treated the _Malassezia_ that had not even been looked for and he was itch-free within a couple of weeks.

And trust me, I'm no dermatology expert!


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Finnboy said:


> Branwen......that's my biggest fear that these blood tests might show he's allergic to the world in general!
> 
> In light of his incontinence issues (which I'm hoping are linked from a stress related point of view...I.e discomfort, vets, treatments constantly...... given we've ruled everything else out....there's no proven link that I can find but we are getting to know our pup!) steroids are out for Finn.
> 
> I have to say he started his Apoquel on Friday night and he hasn't scratched or licked his sores yet! His legs are drying up beautifully and we took his collar off yesterday lunchtime which has made him happier and he hasn't leaked urine since last night either so fingers crossed. xxx


I'm glad it seems to be working for him. Fingers crossed he remains comfortable! 

I am a strong believer that itching should be treated. If the underlying cause has been thoroughly investigated and either cannot be found or - more likely - has been found but cannot be cured/controlled, then use whatever you need to in order to keep them comfy.

Yes, steroids have side effects and can shorten the lifespan of dogs if used long-term. Yes, Apoquel has side effects, too. Everything does.

But severe, uncontrolled itching is as much of a welfare problem as severe, uncontrolled pain and I've seen animals euthanased due to severe skin allergies before now.


----------



## Finnboy (Aug 1, 2013)

I spoke too soon on the urine front......he's leaked badly since lunchtime :blush2:

I can't find anything online to support skin allergies being linked with urinary incontinence but I'm really hoping it is linked in Finns case because otherwise we will sort his skin out only to be faced with big decisions around what to do with a leaky dog we can't fix :blush2:


----------



## lenihacy (Jan 14, 2015)

Hi All this is my first post and have joined this forum just to share my story. I have a 9 year old male Basset, who has suffered for the last 3 years with the worst scratching and smelly yellow scaly skin, we tried everything from homeopathy to steriods, through my own research(not mentioned by any vet in the last 3 years) decided he had a yeast infection. A month ago I changed he's food to grain free(Lilys Kitchen also tried Canaran but he was contently drinking) and have bathed him only once with Nitazol(anti dandruff shampoo).Now I can't say which of the above has worked the magic but he is one happy non scratching non smelly dog, he's bald patches in the folds of skin are growing back still a small red patch under chin but even thats far better and improving by the day. So wish I had tried the grain free diet and shampoo long 
ago.


----------

