# Key Hole Spaying



## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Has anyone had this done with their dogs? do all vets carry it out? After Tilly has her 2nd season and we have waited 6 month she will be spayed but she is so small it worries me I want what is best for Tilly. does anyone have a vet they recommend to do it? as i would willingly travel to a good trusted vet.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

No I believe keyhole surgery is still relatively new and not that many vets do it.

My new practice however does and at the moment I haven't decided whether it will be keyhole or the more traditional surgery when the time comes to spay my new bitch.

Its supposed to be less invasive and the recovery period is much shorter (it is also much more expensive of course).


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Twiggy said:


> No I believe keyhole surgery is still relatively new and not that many vets do it.
> 
> My new practice however does and at the moment I haven't decided whether it will be keyhole or the more traditional surgery when the time comes to spay my new bitch.
> 
> Its supposed to be less invasive and the recovery period is much shorter (it is also much more expensive of course).


oh i dont mind about the expense she is worth anything, we just want it done and her to be brought round x


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

May I ask why you are intent on keyhole surgery for spaying?

Personally I have a few reservations, although I haven't done much research yet.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Tilly is a Papillon and very very small, I worry about blood loss and the general going under.


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## staffybella (Sep 26, 2011)

i'm looking into laparoscopic/keyhole spaying for my girl but it all depends on how much extra it costs and if there's anywhere near that does it


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

my concern with keyhole would be that it is relativly new and whatever vet you get would likely of only done it a handful of times, leaving more space for error, were as if you get an experianced vet you trust to do a regular spay they will of done it hundreds of times and therefor it would be safer as your dog wouldnt be a guinea pig 

perhaps im wrong though and keyhole is more common than i think? 

lots of small dogs get spayed lots of very young puppys get spayed so your vet will have experiance with this and will hopefully put your mind at rest find someone you trust and tell them you want a consultation before it to talk over your worries.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

I couldnt find a vet within a 30 mile radius to do it for me so I had to weigh up the pros and cons of travelling further to an unknown vets and then having to bring Willow back in my car which isnt ideal for her to lie down comfortably in.
Taking all that into account I chose to have her spayed in the normal method at my vets close to home.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

We had Emma done with a Laparoscopic spay and were very happy with it. My understanding is that is not very common in the UK though. We may have just been fortunate our vet did it here in Germany and it's also uncommon. I just do not know. The cost was around 500 instead of 300 for a normal spay.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

*


redroses2106 said:



my concern with keyhole would be that it is relativly new and whatever vet you get would likely of only done it a handful of times, leaving more space for error, were as if you get an experianced vet you trust to do a regular spay they will of done it hundreds of times and therefor it would be safer as your dog wouldnt be a guinea pig

Click to expand...

*


redroses2106 said:


> *perhaps im wrong though and keyhole is more common than i think? *
> 
> *lots of small dogs get spayed lots of very young puppys get spayed so your vet will have experiance with this and will hopefully put your mind at rest find someone you trust and tell them you want a consultation before it to talk over your worries.*




Yes that's one of my concerns. I think I would rather have a very experienced surgeon carry out the spay using traditional methods rather than a vet performing keyhole on a relatively small number of bitches.

A friend's bitch was spayed by keyhole surgery at my practice and I wouldn't say it went that smoothly and it took her far longer to recover than any of my bitches.

One of my pupils was a nurse for many years (a very medical family - her brother is a leading microbiologist) and she is anti keyhole and was trying to explain it all me me.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

I have no experience of this method but from what I have read I am very unsure I would choose it.
Their appears to be 2 methods one is to remove ovaries and leave the uterus the other removes the lot.
The 1st method is the most popular as it is a shorter procedure.
Electrocautary is used which is to minimise bleeding, my concern here is what if an hour or so later in recovary the blood pressure increases and bleeding starts?
Would It be an emergency laparotomy to locate the bleed and tie it off?
Also if you just removed the ovaries and left a uterus with no function would that possibly develop cancer in later years? Just thinking with males and a retained testi that is the reason they are removed.
It minimises trauma yes its less invasive, only 2 small wounds to heal yes but a wound heals from side to side not end to end so that would be the same?
Nah call me old fasioned but an experienced vet doing the traditional spey would be my choice for now unless anyone can give me further info and evidence that this is better.
Incidently most vets love doing small toy breed dogs.....its a lot like doing a cat of which they do hundreds


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

gesic said:


> I have no experience of this method but from what I have read I am very unsure I would choose it.
> Their appears to be 2 methods one is to remove ovaries and leave the uterus the other removes the lot.
> The 1st method is the most popular as it is a shorter procedure.
> Electrocautary is used which is to minimise bleeding, my concern here is what if an hour or so later in recovary the blood pressure increases and bleeding starts?
> ...


Surely if the uterus is left, pyometra would still be a possibility also?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

People may be interested in the attachment:



> Conclusions-OVH is technically more complicated, time consuming, and is probably associated
> with greater morbidity (larger incision, more intraoperative trauma, increased discomfort) compared
> with OVE. No significant differences between techniques were observed for incidence of longterm
> urogenital problems, including endometritis/pyometra and urinary incontinence, making OVE
> the preferred method of gonadectomy in the healthy bitch


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

I know of some-one whom recently had it done.

Not all vets do it and it is more expensive. As surgery is less invasive- healing time is quicker.

The vet told my friend that if there was a problem then a conventional spay would have been carried out.

He was delighted with the procedure but like anything it's up to personal preference.


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## gesic (Feb 19, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Surely if the uterus is left, pyometra would still be a possibility also?


I would guess yes as even a speyed bitch can get a stump pyo.


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## adwills (Feb 4, 2014)

I have just stumbled across this post and thought I would set the record straight. I am a practicing vet, and we offer laparoscopic speys in our practice in Kent. I would agree wholeheartedly about the issue of vets needing to be trained and competent - seeing things on a monitor screen and working your hands can be challenging until you get the hang of it, though once you have worked out which way is up it's not so bad  I'm fortunate to have been performing arthroscopy for several years beforehand, so found the techniques involved fairly easy to pick up.
As for removing the ovaries alone vs the uterus as well, published studies have shown no increased incidence of long term complications such as pyometra in the ovariectomy-alone dogs, and all conclude that ovariectomy alone is beneficial in terms of lower morbidity (problems for the patient around the time of surgery). See Making a rational choice between ovariectomy and ov... [Vet Surg. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI 
Again, there are few comparisms of laparoscopy vs laparotomy. The only one of which I am aware compared the activity levels of bitches for 2 or 3 days post surgery by attaching activity monitoring recorders (like pedometers that people link to their iPhones while walking / running) and concluded that those that had 'keyhole' surgery were significantly more active in the postop phase, strongly suggesting that they were more comfortable. And as for visualisation, it is nonsense to suggest that an open approach is better in this regard - with the camera everything is magnified on screen and the detail is amazing. Want a quick look at the liver, bladder or pancreas while you are in there? Easy, with no need to enlarge the hole at all  Yes, vets charge more to do it, but the equipment to do it costs many thousands of pounds - £18,000 in our case - so it certainly isn't a moneymaking exercise 
2 admittedly subjective points to close with. Firstly, if you had to have your gall bladder removed, (or your ovaries for 50% of the population) if you were given a choice would you opt for open surgery, or keyhole?? 
Secondly, when it was time to spay my 6 month old whippet, there was absolutely no question that she would have anything but a 'keyhole' procedure. There is a video of her here the day after surgery: 



Believe me, whippets are very poor at tolerating abdominal pain, yet it was all we could do to keep her off the sofa etc the same evening :arf:


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

After attending a neutering seminar with Nick THompson (vet) and discussing this with Chrstine Zink and several physios my next bitch will have an ovarioectomy.

The main reason is to redue the adhesions which can be a significant factor in performance animals.

You have to look around for one but you can usually find someone if you look hard enough.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

There's a list here of vets who offer keyhole spaying. It's what I'll be choosing for my bitch when the time comes.
Veterinary Laparoscopy - Vets Offering Keyhole Surgery


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## adwills (Feb 4, 2014)

Sadly the list isn't comprehensive. I know that for a fact as we're not on it!


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

adwills said:


> Sadly the list isn't comprehensive. I know that for a fact as we're not on it!


Where are you? And you could contact the site who put the list together and get yourself added.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nonnie said:


> Surely if the uterus is left, pyometra would still be a possibility also?


Only if some ovarian tissue is left behind, as a rule. A pyometra requires a hormonal cycle to occur.

Stump pyos can occur in spayed bitches (as mentioned above) but, again, it requires some leftover ovarian tissue to develop.

Some vet schools are teaching ovariectomies now rather than the traditional ovariohysterectomy. As long as the ovaries are completely removed there should be no risk of a pyometra in the remaining uterus.


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## diane watson (Feb 22, 2016)

DKDREAM said:


> Has anyone had this done with their dogs? do all vets carry it out? After Tilly has her 2nd season and we have waited 6 month she will be spayed but she is so small it worries me I want what is best for Tilly. does anyone have a vet they recommend to do it? as i would willingly travel to a good trusted vet.


My Border collie had laproscopy at 18 months. Superb recovery. I wish it had been around for my previous dogs. I cannot recommend it enough. It is the kindest cut.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Since this thread was started, I've had 2 bitches spayed this way. Kite in January 2015 and her daughter Fly last November. Kite came down stairs the morning after hers and jumped the baby gate at the bottom - no yelp, no wince. She showed no sign of being in pain at all afterwards. Fly also showed no signs of pain and both recovered really quickly. Cost - just under £400 each; well worth the extra.

And although it's true that wounds heal side to side, the keyhole procedure doesn't make such a big disruption to the abdominal wall. One article I read said that 4 months after a conventional spay, the abdominal wall had only regained 60% of its structural integrity. The 2 tiny wounds aren't big enough to tear open if put under stress..


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