# All black litter



## Donna1973 (Apr 23, 2017)

My cat just had an all black litter, they are absolutely adorable. I was just wondering whether the father would have to be black as well for her to have had a totally black litter. Pic attached of Ebony and her kittens. p.s before anyone starts telling me that I need to get my cat spayed, she was a rescue and pregnant when I got her.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I have no idea about the answer to your question , someone will have , but they are so sweet !


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## Donna1973 (Apr 23, 2017)

i know, can't wait to cuddle them


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Donna1973 said:


> My cat just had an all black litter, they are absolutely adorable. I was just wondering whether the father would have to be black as well for her to have had a totally black litter. Pic attached of Ebony and her kittens. *p.s before anyone starts telling me that I need to get my cat spayed, she was a rescue and pregnant when I got her.*


Ohh OK! 
But I'm pretty sure the answer to your question is no, I don't believe the father has to be all black to have all black kittens in the litter.


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## cows573 (Apr 20, 2017)

I would say the father probably was black too. Years ago, our pure black cat had kittens and they all had some colour in them, though not much...

I am awaiting the kittens from my pregnant adopted Mum - she is a ginger tabby so I am very interested as to what the kittens will be like. She just started labour today....


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## Donna1973 (Apr 23, 2017)

Good l


cows573 said:


> I would say the father probably was black too. Years ago, our pure black cat had kittens and they all had some colour in them, though not much...
> 
> I am awaiting the kittens from my pregnant adopted Mum - she is a ginger tabby so I am very interested as to what the kittens will be like. She just started labour today....


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## Donna1973 (Apr 23, 2017)

Donna1973 said:


> Good l


Good luck with the labour


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## cows573 (Apr 20, 2017)

Thank you, 7 hrs since show and nothing yet! I think I'm worse with my new baby than I was having the three of mine!!! Lol...


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

It is likely the sire was black but not inevitable. He could have been blue or black and white since the white spotting gene is dominant so a black and white cat with only one white spotting gene could have all non-white kittens. If all the kittens are boys, the sire might even have been ginger.

Only one black gene is required to produce a black cat but the other colour genes, chocolate and cinnamon, are not likely to be present in random matings.


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## Babyshoes (Jul 1, 2016)

I have a feeling that black fur in cats is a pretty dominant gene, which is why it's such a common colour, though there is more than one gene involved in cat fur colour which leads to the different coat patterns depending on which allele is expressed in each cell. I'm basing that on vague memories of A level biology many (many) years ago so might not be accurate! If I'm right, then it would indeed be at least possible to have all black kittens with any colour father, though it's likely that dad had at least one black coated parent, if he wasn't black himself.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

If any of the kitten are girls the sire could not be ginger. As for patterns the sire could have been tabby as long as he only had one agouti gene. If he had two, (pure for tabby,) all the kittens would be tabby.

It is almost inevitable that both parents have two black genes since chocolate and cinnamon the other two colour genes are not present in the DSH population.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Babyshoes said:


> I have a feeling that black fur in cats is a pretty dominant gene


Not, it's recessive. The dominant pattern is tabby (agouti), a black is a non-agouti cat and you need two non-agouti genes to produce it whereas you only need on agouti gene to get a tabby cat.

Hence two non-agouti cats can never produce an agouti - tabby - cat.

You have the rest of the info above from QOTN who of course is absolutely correct in what she says.

Additionally, each kitten from of a non-agouti (e.g. black) cat and an agouti (tabby) carrying non-agouti has a 50/50 chance of being non-agouti. Only 1 in 8 litters of three will be all non-agouti - black.


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## Shrike (Jun 25, 2015)

Beautiful mum and kittens. Please come back and show them off as they grow!


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## Babyshoes (Jul 1, 2016)

OrientalSlave said:


> Not, it's recessive. The dominant pattern is tabby (agouti), a black is a non-agouti cat and you need two non-agouti genes to produce it whereas you only need on agouti gene to get a tabby cat.
> 
> Hence two non-agouti cats can never produce an agouti - tabby - cat.
> 
> ...


Gosh, it definitely has been too long since I did A level! I was so sure it was dominant... Well, just ignore me & carry on please!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Babyshoes said:


> Gosh, it definitely has been too long since I did A level! I was so sure it was dominant... Well, just ignore me & carry on please!


Maybe you were correctly thinking that black is dominant over chocolate, which is dominant over cinnamon?


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## Babyshoes (Jul 1, 2016)

OrientalSlave said:


> Maybe you were correctly thinking that black is dominant over chocolate, which is dominant over cinnamon?


Perhaps, or I could just be wrong! The 'ol brain is definitely not as agile as it used to be...


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Babyshoes said:


> Gosh, it definitely has been too long since I did A level! I was so sure it was dominant... Well, just ignore me & carry on please!


You are perfectly correct in saying that black is dominant in the three colour genes but there are 'colours' caused by genes that are epistatic, (covering the colour.) This means that the red gene covers the black when it is present and white covers black. The black is still there but cannot be expressed with the other genes present.

Then you have to consider patterns. Agouti (tabby) is a pattern not a colour gene. Virtually all DSH or DLH tabbies will be black but with a tabby pattern.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> . Only 1 in 8 litters of three will be all non-agouti - black.


Are we talking about litters between non-agouti and agouti cats here?There is no way of telling what proportions will occur. When there is a 50/50 chance of inheriting a gene, no prediction is possible. There is a statistical expectation over many litters but no certainty. Interestingly, this type of question is so common at Langford, they have put an explanation in their latest newsletter.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Are we talking about litters between non-agouti and agouti cats here?There is no way of telling what proportions will occur. When there is a 50/50 chance of inheriting a gene, no prediction is possible. There is a statistical expectation over many litters but no certainty. Interestingly, this type of question is so common at Langford, they have put an explanation in their latest newsletter.


I knew someone would point that out. As you say it's a statistical expectation over many litters, in each litter proportions vary.


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