# Bedtime Routine



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

Sorry if this is very long and rambley and thank you in advance to anyone who actually reads it, I'm just running out of ideas now. 

Every night I get the girls logic gel out of the wardrobe and they both come running, they have that and then I put their little bit of biscuit on their activity board and that marks bedtime, they then settle down and we go to bed. 
On Monday night everything went as normal, I was putting the logic gel away whilst they were eating and I think I banged something in the wardrobe, Annelis got spooked really badly. She ran and hid downstairs, in the back of the TV unit and I couldn't get her out. She eventually did and was running so crouched down, she was terrified. She came upstairs and dived straight under the bed, but came out and got on the tree when I turned the light out. 

The second night she took the logic gel fine, I got the activity board down which she's usually very impatiently waiting for biscuits, but she was terrified, I'd already shut the bedroom door and she tried getting out. She then jumped on the tree again and pretended to be asleep. 

Third night as soon as I got the logic gel out she ran for the hills. (I should probably add she loves the stuff, she'd eat the whole tube if I let her). I managed to coax her back upstairs, but she jumped straight on the tree and pretended to be asleep like the night before. As soon as I turned the light off she jumped down and ate from the activity board. 

Fourth night I got the logic gel out as soon as I got home from work, I've kept it on my bedside table so it's easy to get to and to not freak her out. Thought I'd give them some treats first which was fine, then she took the logic gel fine, for the first night she was interested in the activity board, as soon as I put it down they were both eating together as usual. I walked away, picked up my ipad and turned around and she freaked. Dived straight under the bed. So I turned the light out, 5 minutes later she came out, jumped onto my bedside table, walked past me to stroke her and then settled down to sleep on the end of the bed. 

Last night was night 5, I repeated with treats first, she came running in and was taking treats, I budged slightly and she ran out and just laid at the top of the stairs. So I went out with some treats, which she took then wandered downstairs, I gave her a couple of minutes then followed her down. She was happy for me to fuss her as usual, I then picked her up (she isn't a fan of being picked up) and held her close and she didn't wriggle at all and I put her on the bed and closed the door. She was fine. I decided to scrap the activity board for now so I put their biscuit in bowls, I turned the light out as she seems to be preferring that? And put her bowl on the bed, she ate all her biscuits for the first time since the incident and then settled and went to sleep. 

I think it's me she's scared of, but only when associating it with bedtime, she is absolutely fine at any other time. I keep thinking we've made progress and then something happens. 
Really, I was just wanting an outsider to hear the situation incase I am missing something very obvious? I've had the girls over a year and never had any problems, now this is he second thing in a few weeks  My Mum just says she'll get over it :glare:


----------



## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

This might be a bit horrible but sometimes I think exposure therapy is the best way.perhaps you can shut them in the bedroom at bedtime so there is no escape route and just get the logic out as normal. (If it was me I'd also bang something again if that was the cause of the problem, because it's bound to happen again sometime; but have their favourite treats or toy to distract at the same time...) You just carry on and act as if everything is normal. Sing, put the radio on, get ready for bed etc... They might freak out a bit at first but once they've calmed down I'd then open the door to let them get away if they want. That way they would see that nothing actually harms them. 

I've done the same with Grace who hated being in the bathroom when I had a shower.

I shut the door so she was in the same room, gave her some treats and turned the radio on then chatted to her all the way through. She wasn't happy at all to start with but after a few days would happily sit on the bath mat, eat her treats and wait for me. 

She also didn't like anyone clapping so I would get the flying frenzy and play with it on the bed, her favourite game (with the door shut so she couldn't escape) every time she caught it I clapped and quickly and started playing again. The first few times she ran and hid under the bed but eventually the lure of the FF was too much. She now associates clapping with having fun.

If you can keep trying to make bedtime nice/fun but keep them exposed to the issues, they soon learn they're not quite as scary as they thought.


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you, thank you for your reply. Okay I will try that tonight, I've got her in the room playing flying frenzy at the moment which we do pretty much every day before bed. I'll shut the door before she disappears, I don't want to have to chase her to bed, they usually both just come


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

That did not go well. She went out whilst I was getting Orphelia in. Treats won't even bring her in now, I don't know why she's usually very food orientated. Took treats out to her and slowly moved into the bedroom, she came in but backed out and ran downstairs before I could close the door. She did try running away but quickly just crouched and let me pick her up and take her upstairs. Took her logic gel fine, I've just put their activity board down and she's not interested, she's next to me looking perfectly normal in her bed, but this isn't normal, she loves her food. 
I need to get it together, this is really bothering me now 

Edit: She's just got up and gone for biscuits, but taken whatever she just got out into the bottom of the barrel bit of their tree, she's never done that, and they never use that part of the tree either.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

It sounds to me as though perhaps she isn't feeling well at present. This could account for her being edgy, easily spooked, and hiding, as cats often react that way if they feel unwell. The incident with the wardrobe may have upset her as much as it did because of this. 

Has she recently had her booster vaccinations?

Is she using the litter tray normally? 

Have you changed her diet recently?

I assume she's been spayed? 

Final thought, I would discontinue the Logic gel and see if she improves, and then start it again in 2 weeks time and observe. One of my cats seems unable to tolerate Logic gel, at any rate he never seemed well when I was giving it to him.


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

Within 20 seconds of turning the light off last night she came out and ate her biscuits, I really don't understand it. 

Thank you for your help, much appreciated. 

That did cross my mind I must admit. She had her boosters on 27th August, they didn't seem to have any effect on her at all at the time, one thing maybe worth noting is when I brought her home my other cat (her daughter) was acting like she didn't know who she was. It was very inconsistent, and within a few days it passed. When Annelis spooked last Monday, I think Orphelia hissed at her, there was hissing from someone before she bolted. But again, they're fine with each other, which is what made me think it's me she's afraid of. 

She is eating, drinking and toileting normally. I changed their biscuit in June, and within the last 3 weeks hey have had Miamor Ragout Royale and Schmusy for the first time, but only twice for each food (They only have pouches 3-4 meals a week). 

She was spayed in March last year at he same time as her emergency caesarian (she's a retired breeding Queen), which has left her with a hernia. I've had 3 vets check it, and most recently when she had boosters, and hey all say just keep an eye on it as it doesn't bother her. I check it regularly and she doesn't react at all when it's touched. It worries me though, I'd be quick to blame it because I worry about it. 

Okay I'll scrap the logic gel for now and see, I just want my girl back  
Usually any other time of day she comes running for treats, I just tested it and she just looked at me, but ate them when I went to her. Very unlike her. 
Thanks again.


----------



## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Gosh I don't really know what else to suggest. I suppose sometimes if a cat doesn't want to do something it just won't! She's obviously got her own ideas about how she wants bedtime to go at the moment.

Gracie will not sleep on our bed however much I have tried with her. She did when she was young, but then started to copy Holly who chooses to sleep just outside our door. Huck does sleep on the bed but she chooses not to copy him in that, yet she will in other things.

As long as she is happy in general and not poorly she will establish her own routine again. I'd keep trying with the treats (and abandon logic for a few days) and just try to act as normal as you can. 

Hope it gets better x


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

I am just so confused now  In the beginning it was just bed time, but now she's behaving out of character at other times. I brought them home June 2013 and they've been shut in my bedroom at night ever since, they've 3 of their own beds and a cat tree in here, she's never been rekuctant until now. 
Now it's like she's avoiding me, she isn't showing any obvious signs of being unwell, but I don't know if I should be taking her to the vets, or am I imagining things to be worse because I'm worried silly. 
I will keep to our usual play routine and biscuits before bed, it's Orphelia's routine as well and she's behaving normally. 

I really appreciate your help, thank you. Trying to not let it upset me, but it's really hard, she's usually so affectionate and loving towards me, I came home from work at 5.15pm and she's favoured laying downstairs in the dark rather than with me like she usually is


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Doesn't sound right to me at all.  For such a change in behaviour in a short space of time, I would be inclined to think she feels less than 100% well. Perhaps it's something that comes and goes, so some days she feels better than others. My immediate thought would be a urinary problem, as they can be intermittent sometimes, but you say she is using the litter tray normally? 

I assume there have been no changes in the home, e.g. guests staying? Or any kind of decorating or refurbishment going on? 

If the answer to the above is "no", then I would look at her diet. The fact you changed her diet in June may be significant. Food intolerances don't always show up immediately, they can take a while. Which dry food did you switch her to (sorry if you've already said and I missed it)? 

If it were me I'd take her off all dry food for a couple of weeks to see if there is any improvement. But if that's not possible, then can you go back to the dry food she was on before? But give her much less of it, and make her diet mostly wet food? That way if it is by chance a bladder problem caused perhaps by lack of enough moisture in the diet, the wet food diet will help to flush the bladder. 

The wet food you are giving her at present is less likely to be a culprit if she only has been having it a couple of times a week.


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

Yep she is definitely using the litter tray normally. No changes, my brother moved out last week but he was always in his room which she never really went in anyway. 

They were on Hills Indoor cat biscuit, (they were in sterilised before that) and I put them onto Royal Canin Oral Sensitive. They are raw fed for breakfast and then I feed 2 dinners raw, 2 wet, the biscuit is just a small amount as a bedtime treat really. I did increase the amount I give them probably 2-4 weeks ago, from 16 pieces each to 30. 

Something has just occurred to me, when we went for boosters on 27th August we discovered one of Annelis' front fangs is broken, just the tip is missing. When I think back, I think it happened a couple of weeks before that, one day after I fed them she was pawing at her mouth for a few minutes, then stopped and I never saw her do it again. 
My vet said it was fine, but maybe it would be sharp at some point. The biscuit I give is large otherwise they swallow it whole, do you think the tooth could be bothering her now? And now she's associating that time of day with discomfort/pain? 

We have had a minor improvement tonight, she played in the room for half an hour, I had to bring her in for bed, but she didn't bolt down the stairs, just let me pick her up. Gave her some dreamies which she took fine, then when I started filling he board she went under the bed. She has since come out and is eating the biscuit fine (with the light still on!)


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

If health issues have been ruled out, the thing to do is keep things as normal as possible and simply wait it out. The more you try to "fix" it, the worse you are going to make it, because you keep changing up the routine.

Just stick the the routine and stop fussing and let her get over it by herself.

I know how had that is to do, but here is an example. One of my girls has as a favorite bed her Crows Nest. One time it got some muck in it and I had to clean it and it got very wet. It took several days to dry. The first time she jumped in it and got her feet wet it shocked the heck out of her and after it happened two more times she avoided the thing like the plague. I was very sad because it was her favorite Spot. At first I tried coaxing her into it to show her it was dry now and nice again. I put cat nip in it, I put treats in it. Finally I realized I just had to let her get back to it in her own time.

It took about a month of me completely ignoring it, before she tried again and found it her old favorite spot again.

Just ignore her spooky behavior, when it happens. When you fuss over her, you reinforce that there is something to be spooked about. She'll forget her fright in time.


----------



## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

I agree with Lorilu I honestly think the Annelis is picking up on your stress they are very good at that! Go back to your normal routine and see how it goes! didn't you have a problem when you took one of them to the Vet? sorry I can't remember which one now! but there was a bit of hissing from the other baby on your return home. Try not to worry and above all try to relax around her. X


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Yes, I agree with the above^^, it is a possibility that if you are feeling anxious about Annelis she is sensing your mood, and it is worrying her. Cats can be very sensitive to our moods. I am not entirely convinced it is just that, as there seem to be some slightly discordant factors. BUT I could well be wrong and it's certainly worth relaxing completely about the issue and seeing whether anything changes with Annelis. 

If there is no change in her within a week or so then I'd say something else is going on.


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

You are all right, my stressing isn't helping at all but I'm really going to try to not let it bother me and see how we go. If I don't start to see improvements I will definitely get her checked out, it's been a week now, but I've been really worried which hasn't helped I'm sure.



Soozi said:


> didn't you have a problem when you took one of them to the Vet? sorry I can't remember which one now! but there was a bit of hissing from the other baby on your return home. Try not to worry and above all try to relax around her. X


Yeah I did, Orphelia was being so inconsistent hissing, it passed after a few days for most part, I have caught her doing it just a couple of times still though. 
I feel quite guilty, I had the girls over a year with no problems, and now there's been two things within weeks!

Positive thoughts!


----------



## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Just had a thought - have you got a feliway diffuser in the bedroom? That might help a little. Also it could be that she IS somehow associating you with the banging of the wardrobe as well as picking up on your anxiety. Perhaps you could spray some feliway or pet remedy on your clothes as well (about 20 mins or so before bedtime).

And of course the usual zylkene might ease her too. 

I've just bought some royal canin calm (someone suggested it on another post so I thought I'd try it) as Huck is going through a phase of over grooming and I'm not sure he's getting enough of the zylkene in his food to be effective.

I do agree with Lorilu, Soozi and Chillminx it's probably just going to take a little time then one day you'll realise she's back to normal.


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

I have a Pet Remedy diffuse plugged in in here yup, the spraying sounds like a good idea thanks, I have done that before I brought her in for bed. 
Zyklene is definitely something I could try in time I think, that RC sounds like it could really help Huck, fingers crossed! 

Tonight she didn't run, she rolled as she does when she wants fuss lol, picked her up and brought her in and she got in bed. I filled their activity board as usual and have ignored her. 
Hmm something interesting I've just picked up on, Orphelia has just finished her half (they chose their own halves of the board lol) and she's moved away, Annelis has just got up and gone to eat. Maybe she doesn't want to share anymore, I'm sure Orphelia did hiss at her at the board when she spooked, they happily eat next to each other any other time, I think that could have something to do with it too. (I'm almost sure it's not the tooth now, she is munching fine and they had venison for dinner which is pretty chewy and she was fine). 
I feel positive about tonight though, she doesn't seem stressed or unhappy at all. Thank you all


----------



## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Really pleased there's an improvement! Onwards and upwards now


----------



## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Susan M said:


> You are all right, my stressing isn't helping at all but I'm really going to try to not let it bother me and see how we go. If I don't start to see improvements I will definitely get her checked out, it's been a week now, but I've been really worried which hasn't helped I'm sure.
> 
> Yeah I did, Orphelia was being so inconsistent hissing, it passed after a few days for most part, I have caught her doing it just a couple of times still though.
> I feel quite guilty, I had the girls over a year with no problems, and now there's been two things within weeks!
> ...


The problem if you want to call it that might actually be with Orphelia? it might be that Annelis is sensing a shift in Orphelia's attitude. I'm sure they will both settle back if you continue not to fuss around them too much and just watch them from a distance! You are doing great! X


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

huckybuck said:


> Really pleased there's an improvement! Onwards and upwards now


 Thank you, I'm feeling much better about it now!



Soozi said:


> The problem if you want to call it that might actually be with Orphelia? it might be that Annelis is sensing a shift in Orphelia's attitude. I'm sure they will both settle back if you continue not to fuss around them too much and just watch them from a distance! You are doing great! X


 It's looking that way isn't it? Since boosters, Annelis hasn't been asserting her dominance as much, I will let them get on with it like you say though, I've seen definite improvement at least 
Thank you, the reassurance has definitely helped!


----------



## ChrisAndGypsy (Sep 15, 2014)

Wow, I've never heard of a cat having a bedroom routine before. Good idea, though I doubt very much if mine would take to it. She does usually sleep on our bed, but the bedroom door is always open and she has free run of the house. 

This might sound ridiculous, but what are the benefits of such a routine?


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

Haha I must sound like some kind of nutter! I still live at home, my bedroom is their safe room, I settled them in very slowly when they came home for Annelis' benefit as she was almost 4. Once they were settled and had the run of the house I still brought them in at night and shut the door, I can't sleep with the door open and they've always just settled down and slept all night. I don't force them to sleep on the bed, they have their own beds. 
I suppose it became more routinely when I started giving them logic gel and their activity board at night time, we play, they eat, then we sleep, they (usually) come in themselves as soon as I get the logic gel out. It works for us, they never fuss to get out, never have


----------



## ChrisAndGypsy (Sep 15, 2014)

No, that makes perfect sense, thanks for that . 

I grew up in a house with 4 cats and they had full roam of the house. So after I'd left home and moved into a place I could get a pet, I immediately got a cat. She's had full roam ever since and does at my new place. It's awkward though now, I constantly feel like cat and husband are plotting behind my back


----------



## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

From a psychological point of views it seems she has associated a response to a stimulus. Thus the banging when you presented the logic gel so everytime you now bring this out it causes the response - fear.

She has associates it with a loud sound so not shows fear.

A loud sound that scared her was made when the logic gel was put away. 

Loud sound = fear. Naturally.
Loud sound + logic gel = fear
Logic gel = fear due to the fear happening at this time. But I think it is more fear when the cupboard is opened

Break the association through rewardment and when getting the gel have it from somewhere else so she doesn't associate the sound with fear.


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

ChrisAndGypsy said:


> No, that makes perfect sense, thanks for that .
> 
> I grew up in a house with 4 cats and they had full roam of the house. So after I'd left home and moved into a place I could get a pet, I immediately got a cat. She's had full roam ever since and does at my new place. It's awkward though now, I constantly feel like cat and husband are plotting behind my back


 Hahaha can just imagine their sly plotting 
These girls are my "when I grow up" cats, always thought I'd get them when I moved out, but life doesn't always go the way we assume, we were down to one of my childhood cats left so thought if I was allowed why not. We've never allowed cats upstairs before funnily, Mum said they wouldn't be allowed in her bedroom, that went out the window of course  
I think when I do eventually move out they'll get full roam at night time, it's just not practical here as I always go it bed first, lights on and people up and about would wake me up.



Blackcats said:


> From a psychological point of views it seems she has associated a response to a stimulus. Thus the banging when you presented the logic gel so everytime you now bring this out it causes the response - fear.
> 
> She has associates it with a loud sound so not shows fear.
> 
> ...


I'm doing my very best to break all negative association she has developed, she's now not scared when I get logic gel out, but she doesn't come running for it like she used to. I feel like we've made some improvements, I'll keep at it


----------



## Susan M (Feb 20, 2013)

I think I can stop worrying thinking she doesn't love me anymore, been asleep next to me most of the afternoon :001_wub:


----------

