# Half Check collars & loose lead training



## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Hello

I've decided to start training Ollie to walk on a loose lead. he has a good idea what the heel command means and can walk by my leg for about 40 seconds at a time at the moment. However I'm undecided what to teach him with; a harness or half check collar. At the moment, I'm using a harness which has a front ring so checking him means he gets pulled round and stopped in his tracks, which works well. After a few checks, he'll walk by your side and stop when you stop. 

However I've always dreamed of walking a dog with just a collar, and always liked the idea of half check collars as they do a better check than with a normal collar. Although he will always need to wear a harness due to him being on a flexi lead/longline so is it worth just loose lead training with a harness (with ring on the back)? 

And I don't want anyone to say that I shouldn't "check" dogs. Ollie is a stubborn, strong willed dog and he needs a firm hand, and checking is what is needed to get the point across. He won't walk on a loose lead with just treats, he needs checking too. (tried teaching loose lead walking with just treats, so I know he won't do it).


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## Pawsitive (Mar 24, 2011)

both my Collies are walked on harnesses and I have to say I recently invested in a Company of Animals harness which is brilliant.

However I am a fan of using the 300 peck / Click and treat method to teach loose lead walking / heel rather than checking. I think using a choke collar is painful and can be dangerous to the dog's neck / throat.

I think if you would be walking him on a harness anyway then teaching him on the harness is a good idea.

p.s. if he won't work for treats what about toys?


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Pawsitive said:


> both my Collies are walked on harnesses and I have to say I recently invested in a Company of Animals harness which is brilliant.
> 
> However I am a fan of using the 300 peck / Click and treat method to teach loose lead walking / heel rather than checking. I think using a choke collar is painful and can be dangerous to the dog's neck / throat.
> 
> ...


it's not a choke chain, its a half check which prevents strangulation.

I'm using treats alongside the checking, so if he gets too far ahead, I check and when he comes back to my side, he gets a treat. if you just use treats, then he'll walk off once I've given the treat.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I have managed to get Kilo to LLW on his normal collar by stopping dead and ignoring him each time the lead goes taught. Being very stubborn himself I have stood in the rain for 10 minutes before now waiting for him to return to me or at least sit to slack the lead. It sometimes took half an hour to go 100m or so  I started off treating every few steps and now treat intermittently and use rewards such as a good play with his toy if he walks nicely onto the field.

As I didn't always have time to train the above, I invested in a Dogmatic headcollar too so that Kilo would never learn to pull on his flat collar. He walks easily with the Dogmatic (I still use it as a back up in some circumstances - e.g., very exciting places!) and I still use my cue word 'loose' when his head comes alongside my leg.

I have also found that if he has a 'job' like carrying his frisbee he is so absorbed with it that he just trots along (well, prances like he is showing something off!!) by my side - again pretty useful if you are a little short on time. He also knows that when he is carrying a toy that he will get a game for walking well.

One day it 'clicked' and 90% of the time Kilo will walk on a lovely loose lead; every now and then, such as when we reach the entrance to the places we walk or play he will try to pull through excitement. I just turn around and walk away from the entrance, then approach it again and repeat until he walks there nicely. Which is most of the time now .

Hope that made a little sense, it turned into a ramble .


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Only way to teach heel IMO is the treat on the nose way.

If he can do it for 40 seconds you are nearly there you just arent keeping his interest enough to maintain the heel.

Flat collar and normal lead, dog on left, lead in left hand treat in right hand. Hot dog sausage on dogs nose thigh height and give "heel" command and walk LOTS of encouragement and drop the odd treat in his mouth to keep him coming, change direction regularly and stop and give a sit command every now and then too. Graduallt raise the treat to your hip bone but if it makes him jump its too high.

Oscar is great at heel but it takes work and 100% concentration from me. He still pulls some of the way out on a walk because its hard to combat his excitement levels and i cant do that with a buggy and 3 kids so i let it go but you should be able to


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## keirk (Aug 9, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> And I don't want anyone to say that I shouldn't "check" dogs. Ollie is a stubborn, strong willed dog and he needs a firm hand, and checking is what is needed to get the point across. He won't walk on a loose lead with just treats, he needs checking too. (tried teaching loose lead walking with just treats, so I know he won't do it).


You don't need to check. 

But really tho - you really don't need to "check". Loose lead walking requires cooperation - you may be about to "force" a dog to do it while you ask them, but you are really looking for them to find walking alongside you MORE rewarding than pulling ahead (which to a dog is very rewarding). Using an aversive such as "checking" won't work in the long term as the occasional jab in the neck isn't going to put them off the more rewarding moving forward into pressure.

Try some short positive training sessions in a low distraction area with a plain flat collar. If your dog is used to pulling dont expect miracles but focus on progress and keep building it up.

Not what you wanted to hear - but I hope it helps.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> if you just use treats, then he'll walk off once I've given the treat.


That is probably a technique issue, you try to make the heeling rewarding in short training bursts, and verbal praise and deferring the food reward is part of it, keeping the activity continuous - http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/158776-can-anyone-give-me-some-help-heel.html

Otherwise it's similar for "Sit/Beg for treat!", "oh cute!" and dog goes away uninterested.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

He wont walk off he you keep the treats coming (get a little treat pouch or have lots of small pieces of cheese in your hand so its nice and smelly)

Like i said LOTS of verball encouragement, it should be FUN  Keep the pace up to so you are both moving fairly quickly. Like all training hort bursts at first in the garden then add the distractions outside.

Bear in mind it took me 2 years to get a decent heel out of Oscar and tbh bizarely he has a much stronger offlead "close" where he could wander all over if he wanted but i taught him "close" by accident and obviously just got it right


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

He knows the heel command. He'll walk by my leg, with my hand on my hip, looking up at me for up to 40 seconds (currently haven't timed it for longer), so he does know the command, it's just putting it into practice and keeping his mind off pulling to things. I'm not looking for a perfect heel like in an obedience competition as that would be silly to expect them to look up at you for an hour long walk, however I'm just looking for a loose lead, so I treat him even if he isn't looking at me, just that he's walking by my side on a loose lead. Would it be better to use a clicker for this type of training or would just treating every half minute or so be sufficient?

Also, I meant to say that by "checking", I mean that if he pulls, we walk in the other direction. I saw it on Dog Borstal once and he got a dog that pulled really hard to walk by his side without treats in a very short time.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> He knows the heel command. He'll walk by my leg, with my hand on my hip, looking up at me for up to 40 seconds (currently haven't timed it for longer), so he does know the command, it's just putting it into practice and keeping his mind off pulling to things. I'm not looking for a perfect heel like in an obedience competition as that would be silly to expect them to look up at you for an hour long walk, however I'm just looking for a loose lead, so I treat him even if he isn't looking at me, just that he's walking by my side on a loose lead. Would it be better to use a clicker for this type of training or would just treating every half minute or so be sufficient?
> 
> Also, I meant to say that by "checking", I mean that if he pulls, we walk in the other direction. I saw it on Dog Borstal once and he got a dog that pulled really hard to walk by his side without treats in a very short time.


You just need to keep his interest up, i use all sorts of little clicks and noises to "remind" Oscar where her should be so a "click click" noise with my tongue then when he is there a "heel" and treat will help.

When you have had a walk will Ollie walk on a loose lead, once his excitement levels are down ??


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> When you have had a walk will Ollie walk on a loose lead, once his excitement levels are down ??


yes, he will walk by your side if he's had a good walk.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> yes, he will walk by your side if he's had a good walk.


Then he can do it already 

Again its about expectations. You may never be able to combat the excitement levels he has when going outwards on a walk or it will take an awful lot of eefort and 110% concentration from you at all times.

This was what i was saying on your other thread about accepting certain things (whilst still working to improve them) or breaking a dogs spirit to make them "conform"


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Then he can do it already
> 
> Again its about expectations. You may never be able to combat the excitement levels he has when going outwards on a walk or it will take an awful lot of eefort and 110% concentration from you at all times.
> 
> This was what i was saying on your other thread about accepting certain things (whilst still working to improve them) or breaking a dogs spirit to make them "conform"


but he need to have a really good walk (like an hour and a half sort of walk) before he'll walk by my side from tiredness. I want him to walk by my side when doing just an hour walk. He's very obedient when he wants to be, and he'll do almost anything for food, it's just keeping that focus up really. Should I be walking and not saying anything, other than good boy or should I be sort of hopping and skipping to keep his focus?


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> Also, I meant to say that by "checking", I mean that if he pulls, we walk in the other direction. I saw it on Dog Borstal once and he got a dog that pulled really hard to walk by his side without treats in a very short time.


That's "turning around" not "checking". Most of us, would think you were going to do a short sharp tug on the leash, to "get the dog's attention".


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## keirk (Aug 9, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> He knows the heel command. He'll walk by my leg, with my hand on my hip, looking up at me for up to 40 seconds (currently haven't timed it for longer), so he does know the command, it's just putting it into practice and keeping his mind off pulling to things. I'm not looking for a perfect heel like in an obedience competition as that would be silly to expect them to look up at you for an hour long walk, however I'm just looking for a loose lead, so I treat him even if he isn't looking at me, just that he's walking by my side on a loose lead. Would it be better to use a clicker for this type of training or would just treating every half minute or so be sufficient?


Like you said - "Heel" and LLW are very different. Being the perfect heel position isnt required, but it's easier to walk if they are by you side, or a little behind (so you can shield them from oncoming bikes / kids / other dogs etc). A clicker would help - click when are in the general position you'd like them in, and put the treat by your heel closest to them.

Remember keep them the sessions really short to start with, so there is zero chance of him getting it wrong and slowly build up from there.



SEVEN_PETS said:


> Also, I meant to say that by "checking", I mean that if he pulls, we walk in the other direction. I saw it on Dog Borstal once and he got a dog that pulled really hard to walk by his side without treats in a very short time.


If you anticipate his pulling by changing direction before he hits the end of the lead - you dont need to "check" as he won't of got it wrong. In fact you can click him as catches up with you. The really great trainers dont let dogs make mistakes.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> but he need to have a really good walk (like an hour and a half sort of walk) before he'll walk by my side from tiredness. I want him to walk by my side when doing just an hour walk. He's very obedient when he wants to be, and he'll do almost anything for food, it's just keeping that focus up really. Should I be walking and not saying anything, other than good boy or should I be sort of hopping and skipping to keep his focus?


Errrr ((cough cough)) think about this from his perspective, not a very "interesting" walk being glued to your side walking steadily for an hour is it  Come on SP, you know you have a high energy dog and you are not an OAP so "engage" HIM. Walks are "his" time not yours and we have already discussed the whole on lead/off lead thing. Now i understand why Ollie is onlead but because of that you have a responsibility to make those walks as interesting for him as possible and they won't be just walking "steady" infront of you for an hour.

Do short bursts of heel work during the walk by all means but then give him the extender and let him please himself.

Use a short lead for "heel" work and an extended for "off lead" time so he can grasp that it is "different".

To keep his focus you need to sound "interesting" and "exciting" but don't overdo it or you will overstimulate him and he will be all over the place lol.

"good boy" " well done" "what a clever Ollie" all in a high sing songy voice. Stop after 5 minutes make him sit, put him back on his extended and "release" him with a "go on then" and a hand signal away from you if you like.

You can call him in from this too to practice recall and then release him periodically.

"close" can be taught on the right side but needs to be OFFLEAD so just at home for now. Same thing with the treat though but point to beside you call him and say "close", get him to trot to your right with a treat for a few seconds then treat and say "go on then" and signal away. Gradually increase the length of the close 

This is such a great command to try and nail as it may just eventually give you the confidence to let him off as Oscars "close" is much stronger than even his recall is


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> Errrr ((cough cough)) think about this from his perspective, not a very "interesting" walk being glued to your side walking steadily for an hour is it  Come on SP, you know you have a high energy dog and you are not an OAP so "engage" HIM. Walks are "his" time not yours and we have already discussed the whole on lead/off lead thing. Now i understand why Ollie is onlead but because of that you have a responsibility to make those walks as interesting for him as possible and they won't be just walking "steady" infront of you for an hour.
> 
> Do short bursts of heel work during the walk by all means but then give him the extender and let him please himself.
> 
> ...


the only problem is that nearly all his walks are walking the streets, not in parks, so I can't use an extendable. Although I could use that technique but just switching his short lead from collar to harness when I'm not training. I'm still trying to take him for a walk before work which would involve going to the park, however the vast majority of his walks are on a short lead by the roadside, for 45 minutes to an hour, twice daily.

apart from pulling, he's almost perfect in every other way. he's much better in the garden so he gets to release all his energy out there as our garden is large so we get to play fetch in there.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> the only problem is that nearly all his walks are walking the streets, not in parks, so I can't use an extendable. Although I could use that technique but just switching his short lead from collar to harness when I'm not training. I'm still trying to take him for a walk before work which would involve going to the park, however the vast majority of his walks are on a short lead by the roadside, for 45 minutes to an hour, twice daily.
> 
> apart from pulling, he's almost perfect in every other way. he's much better in the garden so he gets to release all his energy out there as our garden is large so we get to play fetch in there.


OK then its even more important during that walk that you engage with him lots and play some games. Get him "working" on his walk. Play sit and stay and come walking just a bit ahead (this can be done onlead by the road) Keep him going with the heel work but break it up with some "find it" on a grassy area (you can do that on an extendable) and only need a mall piece of verge.

A garden is no replacement for the great outdoors for this breed who live for the thrill of a scent but as long as he is getting really good free walks at the weekend then the weekday walks can be more structured but still need to be exciting 

With the lighter nights can you not get him out to the park in the evening ??


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## Statler (Jan 3, 2011)

why are there so many threads on here regarding getting a dog to walk to heel, and the advise is always use positive rewards and treats and patience, yet still time after time those training with treats are struggling to get some success.

now before someone posts that my methods are old fashioned and out of date and new methods are better, maybe they are old fashioned because they work. so why dismess them. id never let a child drag me round the supermarket so why let a dog.

dogs like people have differing temprements, some are easily trained with treats some are head strong and need a different approach. use what works

dog training is all about reading your dog, its an art form not a science

technique is everything, and something that should be observed not read about.

im well aware that british style gundog training methods are frowned upon on this forum but maybe a little research into its methods would be advisable. 

walking to heel is very easy with some technique and a little patience even in the worst of cases. i know because i lived through it


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Statler said:


> why are there so many threads on here regarding getting a dog to walk to heel, and the advise is always use positive rewards and treats and patience, yet still time after time those training with treats are struggling to get some success


That's sophistry. The reason you see threads about it, is because it takes persistence and some coordination (needing practice) to get the knack. Furthermore it is something very many like to try, once they have LLW sorted.

There's lots of threads repeated on housetraining, despite the great success of most to achieve it far quicker than in days of paper training.

Unfortunately the methods you advocate, are probably a contributing factor to on leash dogs, being anti-social and reactive. Their fear based reaction, is reinforced by a check, and sometimes additionally scolding, so they become even more anxious.

In an autopsy 48 out of 50 German dogs walked on choke chains, had signs of neck trauma injuries. I've seen unwitting treatment of Gundog breeds like Labs, which the owner and you would likely call abuse, if you saw it in a video.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Statler said:


> why are there so many threads on here regarding getting a dog to walk to heel, and the advise is always use positive rewards and treats and patience, yet still time after time those training with treats are struggling to get some success.
> 
> now before someone posts that my methods are old fashioned and out of date and new methods are better, maybe they are old fashioned because they work. so why dismess them. id never let a child drag me round the supermarket so why let a dog.
> 
> ...


Its just about preference  I would have had to be seriously harsh with Oscar and i wasn't prepared to do that so i took the long road, frustrating yes but i am OK with that. To be honest i have combated the pulling going out on a walk eventually by having a bungee lead on his flat leather collar but positioning the collar in the same place a slip lead would sit, the bungee "gives" a bit but the position of the collar keeps him from pulling.

All dogs are different so respond to variations or tweaks but only an owner can work those out or a one to one trainer


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## Statler (Jan 3, 2011)

RobD-BCactive said:


> That's sophistry. The reason you see threads about it, is because it takes persistence and some coordination (needing practice) to get the knack.
> 
> There's lots of threads repeated on housetraining, despite the great success of most to achieve it far quicker than in days of paper training.
> 
> ...


yeah i have 3 dogs that walk perfectly at heel, enjoy playing with other dogs, have good recall and enjoy doing what they are bred to do, i really messed up somewhere with them but thanks for posting what i knew u would


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Lots of people have had success, how would it look if everyone posted a thread, "My dog is heeling using treats" I don't have a problem threads?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Lots of people have had success, how would it look if everyone posted a thread, "My dog is heeling using treats" I don't have a problem threads?


I don't have a problem so thought I would come along and tell everybody about it! Apart from when Ferdie sees another dog (hence dogmatic for back up) they walk along nicely beside me. They always have. I have not used treats or jerks or anything else; newfoundlands don't pull! So there is your answer, get a newfie:tongue_smilie:


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## Statler (Jan 3, 2011)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Lots of people have had success, how would it look if everyone posted a thread, "My dog is heeling using treats" I don't have a problem threads?


if you reread my post it says use whatever works for the handler and the dog, ive nothing against using treats, infact one of my dogs was trained mainly with treats, but your instance of a one size fits all approach is incorrect. used correctly a tug on the lead is nothing to be ashamed of, :


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Statler said:


> if you reread my pos


I have and you still ask a question "Why"


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> get a newfie:tongue_smilie:


or a Westie, so you can call it "Woodbine"? (variation on an old joke)


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## Statler (Jan 3, 2011)

RobD-BCactive said:


> I have and you still ask a question "Why"


i asked why when i could have written r+ heeling doesnt work but that would have been far too easy to get your hackles up whilst cradling your r+ training manual.

just joking :tongue_smilie:

if nothing else your posts got me curious to look into reading up on it


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## sarybeagle (Nov 4, 2009)

We've recently cracked Bella's LLW. Hopefully this link will work YouTube - Bella loose lead walking

Last weekend we went up guildford high street doing LLW training and she was terrible at it. Pulled at every smell, every noise. It took us 45 mins to walk just up the high street without being dragged. Constant stopping and turning until she realized pulling gets you no where.

Everyday last week we practiced attention whilst walking. Starting off in the house turning your back on her so she had to come look for you, then moving a pace stopping and repeating until u could walk along with her watching your face. Then add in moving forwards, backwards sideways with her still watching you. Every 3 paces treat, high praise. Until it was every 10 paces etc.

Now I can get her attention whilst walking along and she still gets to sniff and stop just she no longer pulls ahead.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

sarybeagle said:


> We've recently cracked Bella's LLW. Hopefully this link will work YouTube - Bella loose lead walking[/url



Great! I love the way your Beagle is giving you so much attention!


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## sarybeagle (Nov 4, 2009)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Great! I love the way your Beagle is giving you so much attention!


Thank you she's so good on lead now. In less than a week from being dragged along to this. And beagz are stubborn little bulldozers so I'm dead chuffed. Asvis our trainer


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Sevenpets-

I feel your pain. Teaching loose lead walking can be a pain in the butt and a very lengthy process BUT (and I know you are not going to like this- sorry ):
SCRAP the "he's a strong willed dog who needs a firm hand" stuff. Please 

Trust me... among certain trainers, my working sheepdog would "fit" this category (just as well I know they are wrong) because, coming from working lines, he shows many strong working behaviours, had (has- yep lengthy process) particularly poor stimulus control, on top of other, fear related issues. 
Yet he has been trained using only positive reinforcement and clicker training (and negative punishment- withdrawal of rewards) to walk on a loose lead (on a harness with a double ended lead). I chose the harness partly because initially he would freeze if something scary came along on a flat collar and lead or would go all fiddly and squirmy- all stress related. But in any case, what I'm trying to get across is that, honestly (!!!) you really don't need to bracket Ollie off as a "strongwilled"/ difficult dog. If, as you say reward based methods didn't work before, then perhaps you hadn't found a reward that was sufficiently motivating before, perhaps the method you were using was confusing or (no-offense intended) inconsistent. 

I honestly believe that dogs that people classify as strong-willed etc rolleyes: respond amazingly well to positive reinforcement (and negative punishment). There is no need to use any kind of aversive "checking".

In response to your question about half check collars, I would only use these, if they were fitted like a normal collar (with the two D-rings and material length adjusted so that they met like a normal collar and the metal chain was excess). They can be good for encouraging/helping with a loose lead walking behaviour because of the loose feel they give around the dog's neck area (unlike the sensation of a flat collar which the dog is pulling against, the tension in their neck encourages them to pull even more). I would certainly never use them to check a dog.

Just a thought:

Have you tried using the 300 peck technique (for creating duration and distance) with regards to loose lead walking. Might be worth looking into?
Have a read here:
https://sites.google.com/site/lucysdogblog/300-peck-pigeon

Hope this helps


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

i think being consistent and getting timing right are the hardest things- I'm sure they're my downfall with training LLW


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

lemmsy said:


> I honestly believe that dogs that people classify as strong-willed etc rolleyes: respond amazingly well to positive reinforcement (and negative punishment). There is no need to use any kind of aversive "checking"


I quite agree, and if you do have a strong willed dog, that by definition makes it harder to "make them" do something by force of will or discipline, so the more motivational and incentivising approach is less stress alround. In long run, rewards based means they want to do, the things you are happy with, so they comply willingly.

Fortunately, the OP meant turning around, having seen the technique on Dog Borstal (where the trainer likely used check for when the lead went taut).

The Half-check aka Martingale collar, is far better than flat collar for this training technique, becausue of the natural warning when there's tension, reducing the sudden forces if the dog misses you turning and doesn't follow soon enough when ahead.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Even though Ollie knows the heel command, I think when he was younger, I accidentally taught him that when he got the treat, it was end of exercise and therefore end of heelwork, so ever since he's though that once he's got the treat, he can do whatever he wants (ie pull ahead or go sniff something), so that's something I have to re-teach. (it's amazing what this dog can pick up accidentally :lol.

This afternoon, I did some heelwork with just a normal collar and lead, giving him a treat every step when he was in heel, and then slowly increasing to two paces, and three paces. Got to four paces today and then treating for about a minute, so that's great. For the timebeing, he's being walked on his harness when we aren't training so that he isn't being confused over being able to pull by his collar or not. I've also introduced his release command so that if I want him to greet a dog or person, or just some relaxing time, I can release him from the heel in the middle of walk.

Does this all sound like I'm on the right track? He's certainly willing to do it, so it's just a matter of time, effort and patience to get him walking well.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> Even though Ollie knows the heel command, I think when he was younger, I accidentally taught him that when he got the treat, it was end of exercise and therefore end of heelwork, so ever since he's though that once he's got the treat, he can do whatever he wants (ie pull ahead or go sniff something), so that's something I have to re-teach. (it's amazing what this dog can pick up accidentally :lol.
> 
> This afternoon, I did some heelwork with just a normal collar and lead, giving him a treat every step when he was in heel, and then slowly increasing to two paces, and three paces. Got to four paces today and then treating for about a minute, so that's great. For the timebeing, he's being walked on his harness when we aren't training so that he isn't being confused over being able to pull by his collar or not. I've also introduced his release command so that if I want him to greet a dog or person, or just some relaxing time, I can release him from the heel in the middle of walk.
> 
> Does this all sound like I'm on the right track? He's certainly willing to do it, so it's just a matter of time, effort and patience to get him walking well.


That all sounds great 

Just as a glimmer of light for you my 7 year old walked Oscar down our road to the park yesterday in a perfect heel using the treat on hip technique. Oscar is much stronger than my lad and could easily pull him over but my boy walked him perfectly all the way to the park (which was an outward journey that even i sometimes struggle to get Oz to focus on), It was lovely to see


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> I did some heelwork with just a normal collar and lead, giving him a treat every step when he was in heel, and then slowly increasing to two paces, and three paces. Got to four paces today and then treating for about a minute, so that's great
> 
> Does this all sound like I'm on the right track? He's certainly willing to do it, so it's just a matter of time, effort and patience to get him walking well.


Sounds like it, remember you can reassure with praise, to help stretch out the treating; after all it's Reward not "treats" and we don't want dogs to only heel when there's a nice smelling training pouch about.

I actually used the turn around method for a bit today, on regular route to the best park and I think though it does basically work, my dog gets a touch confused, and isn't as motivated than if I make it clear there's rewards like play with toy, or training treats. It also helps, give him a way to appeal to play, rather than just be excited when he's in the mood.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> This afternoon, I did some heelwork with just a normal collar and lead, giving him a treat every step when he was in heel, and then slowly increasing to two paces, and three paces. Got to four paces today and then treating for about a minute, so that's great. For the timebeing, he's being walked on his harness when we aren't training so that he isn't being confused over being able to pull by his collar or not. I've also introduced his release command so that if I want him to greet a dog or person, or just some relaxing time, I can release him from the heel in the middle of walk.
> 
> Does this all sound like I'm on the right track? He's certainly willing to do it, so it's just a matter of time, effort and patience to get him walking well.


Great stuff Sevenpets! Click + reward for you (glass of wine? Choccy? )
WTG Ollie too 

Sounds like you've made a fab start on teaching a loose lead behaviour using a 300 peck style approach! :thumbsup:
Just remember to start with to keep it simple. The only criteria you need for the dog to be reinforced is a slack lead. Doesn't matter if they are sniffing when the lead is lack. Doesn't matter if they are looking at you. Either way: slack lead= reinforcement.

You may find that you hit a sticky area at some point (usually between approx VR schedule of 10-20) but so long as you work through it patiently (keeping the sessions really positive) and remember to reset the counter each time the dog doesn't perform loose lead, you should get there. I've had a lot of success with this method with my WSD, who now walks really nicely on a slack lead on our walks 

Keep us updated


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

There's a training log! Good start it seems  http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/160108-loose-lead-training-diary.html


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