# Happy British Independence Day



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Vote leave reached the amount of votes needed (closing votes are way over this - closing vote are 17,410,742 for vote leave) to officially declare they won.

Congratulations.


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## Mr Gizmo (Jul 1, 2009)

At last.
I voted out and for that reason if it all goes pear shaped I along with over 17 million other people, will accept full responsibility for the consequences.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Common sense prevails
I don't see why it will take two years to get out
I wonder if now I will be able to buy a cucumber that is curly instead of straight and all the same length, small apples instead of them being all the sane size etc and I wonder if greengrocers will be able to sell in pounds as well as metric and material in yards again
People of my generation, and me in particular find it hard to visualize metric, I can tell haw much a handful of runner beans weigh in imperial but no way in metric
I have stood in a shop like a dimwit trying to work out if 11/2 meters of curtain material will be big enough until the sales person holds it up for me to see
Oh well, I can hope


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Congratulations to those who voted Leave. 

I'm actually more disappointed than I ever thought I would be. I hope we have collectively made the right decision, and hope we can look forward to many of the benefits that Leave Campaigners saw.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I voted to leave so am pleased at the result though not jubilant. I'm still somewhat scared about the future and what will happen as its an unknown quantity. I just hope they have the backbone to stand up and do the job of putting things right for the British people.
My OH voted to stay in and when I woke him up at 6.00 a.m. to tell him the result (he should have been grateful, it could have been 5.00 as I was up watching results on TV) his reply was "now we're in trouble, think I'll stay in bed all day today". He's such a sore loser .


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Charity said:


> I voted to leave so am pleased at the result though not jubilant. I'm still somewhat scared about the future and what will happen as its an unknown quantity. I just hope they have the backbone to stand up and do the job of putting things right for the British people.
> My OH voted to stay in and when I woke him up at 6.00 a.m. to tell him the result (he should have been grateful, it could have been 5.00 as I was up watching results on TV) his reply was "now we're in trouble, think I'll stay in bed all day today". He's such a sore loser .


I was up at 5am watching the news as well.
I am having a few glasses of wine today.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Well we did it, the British people have spoken. Common sense prevails.



Bisbow said:


> I don't see why it will take two years to get out


David Dimbley did say on the BBC news this morning that it can be speeded up. I hope so, as we have to pay all that money every week until it's all gone through.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

I have some friends who are EU citizens living and working long-term in the UK. They are very frightened and upset about their future now (yes, I know everyone's saying that people who are here already won't be made to leave, but that's no comfort if you are one of those concerned, and anyway, whose to say it won't change?) One of my friends said she doesn't feel welcome here any more and is scared about what will happen because her whole life is based in Britain.

So if you are celebrating because you voted leave, that's great, but please spare a thought for those who are very sad today


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## alan g a (Feb 23, 2011)

I am happy this morning. We have our country back.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Charity said:


> I voted to leave so am pleased at the result though not jubilant. I'm still somewhat scared about the future and what will happen as its an unknown quantity. I just hope they have the backbone to stand up and do the job of putting things right for the British people.


I think this is a fair assessment of how I feel at the moment.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Cameron has resigned as prime minister and will leave by October
http://news.sky.com/story/1716427/will-brexit-trigger-camerons-no-10-exit


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

stockwellcat said:


> Cameron has resigned as prime minister and will leave by October
> http://news.sky.com/story/1716427/will-brexit-trigger-camerons-no-10-exit


This sort of surprises me. I thought he would have the 'nads to at least ride it out a bit.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Bisbow said:


> Common sense prevails
> I don't see why it will take two years to get out
> I wonder if now I will be able to buy a cucumber that is curly instead of straight and all the same length, small apples instead of them being all the sane size etc and I wonder if greengrocers will be able to sell in pounds as well as metric and material in yards again
> People of my generation, and me in particular find it hard to visualize metric, I can tell haw much a handful of runner beans weigh in imperial but no way in metric
> ...


Will it be worth it if house prices crash and are worth a small fraction of the mortgage placed on it? Or the NHS becomes a paid for service?
I can't image caring about measuring fabric more then anything else.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> Will it be worth it if house prices crash and are worth a small fraction of the mortgage placed on it? Or the NHS becomes a paid for service?
> I can't image caring about measuring fabric more then anything else.


Why the need for catiness - can't you just accept other people have different views and priorities to you, plus Bisbow was being light hearted.

A house price crash might be a good thing for all the youngsters who have had no hope of ever getting a property of their own. Also for your info there have been house price crashes before (I've been through it twice) and being in the EU didn't help us then


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Why the need for catiness - can't you just accept other people have different views and priorities to you, plus Bisbow was being light hearted.
> 
> A house price crash might be a good thing for all the youngsters who have had no hope of ever getting a property of their own. Also for your info there have been house price crashes before (I've been through it twice) and being in the EU didn't help us then


I wasn't actually being catty.

It's fine that leave has won, but this makes little sense, if they show the fabric to you and then you know, it's not big deal. What we are about to enter into is a mess, no matter what side you are on. Tougher times are coming and soon. So yes, to me, having to measure fabric makes no difference and it will never go back anyway.

I know that there have been crashes, for whatever reason before, this one has been caused by the leave vote, had we not left, we would be more stable.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Will it be worth it if house prices crash and are worth a small fraction of the mortgage placed on it? Or the NHS becomes a paid for service?
> I can't image caring about measuring fabric more then anything else.


Can't you take it as it was intended. after all the vitriol of the last few days it was a relief to at last get the result..
\lighten up a bit before you make yourself ill


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Bisbow said:


> Can't you take it as it was intended. after all the vitriol of the last few days it was a relief to at last get the result..
> \lighten up a bit before you make yourself ill


It may be a relief to you, to many it is nothing of the sort.


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## MiloandTazzy (Dec 10, 2014)

Bisbow said:


> Can't you take it as it was intended. after all the vitriol of the last few days it was a relief to at last get the result..
> \lighten up a bit before you make yourself ill


When people realise the financial repercussions of the leave vote they'll all be feeling ill.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

CuddleMonster said:


> I have some friends who are EU citizens living and working long-term in the UK. They are very frightened and upset about their future now (yes, I know everyone's saying that people who are here already won't be made to leave, but that's no comfort if you are one of those concerned, and anyway, whose to say it won't change?) One of my friends said she doesn't feel welcome here any more and is scared about what will happen because her whole life is based in Britain.
> 
> So if you are celebrating because you voted leave, that's great, but please spare a thought for those who are very sad today


Our household is in this position this morning.

It's a horrendous feeling - Had a few people ask if my husband will be applying for citizenship.... I politely explained that he is proud of his heritage, doesn't wish to be a citizen and spending £1300 won't make him suddenly feel more welcome.....

It is a worrying time for a lot of EU nationals (hardworking / tax paying / home owning) up and down the country who have deep routes in the UK who are now wondering if it's where they really want to be / there family to be.

So no celebrations in our house.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

alan g a said:


> I am happy this morning. We have our country back.


I never thought we had lost it.  Not a happy day for me, but what done is done I just hope we don't live to regret it.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> It may be a relief to you, to many it is nothing of the sort.


It was a relief to get a result, any result,
The tension of late has be getting to much for some people.
Now is the time to reflect and consider the future, it won't be easy, it would not have been either way'. No sense in getting uptight about it


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm glad it's over I have serious worries for the future - I just hope I am proved wrong


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

Will it be Happy Independence Day though? It could be the best thing we ever did, it could also be a disaster & that's why I didn't vote... no one knows!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*The truth is, none of knows what is ahead of us. But it was the same when we joined. Good job i live in hope.*


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

There is no point in worrying about something I have no control over, as said, what's done is done

I voted out but what happens now is out of my hands, just have to wait and see if I got it right.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

CuddleMonster said:


> I have some friends who are EU citizens living and working long-term in the UK. They are very frightened and upset about their future now (yes, I know everyone's saying that people who are here already won't be made to leave, but that's no comfort if you are one of those concerned, and anyway, whose to say it won't change?) One of my friends said she doesn't feel welcome here any more and is scared about what will happen because her whole life is based in Britain.
> 
> So if you are celebrating because you voted leave, that's great, but please spare a thought for those who are very sad today


This.

One of my EU friends (married to a Brit) is currently with him in the US for a few years with his job. She's now not feeling welcome to come back.

I work in an industry that is very specialist and heavily reliant on talent from all over the world, let alone the EU. If we lose them, we can't replace them.

The hotel and catering industries depend on migrant workers to function. I would imagine they are extremely nervous right now.

Many of my friends are disabled, and are genuinely terrified what the loss of EU regulation protection will mean for them.

And I do wonder how people will be feeing in a few weeks when the euphoria wears off, reality starts to come in to focus, and potentially a lot of the campaign issues turn out to be not quite as they were presented. Which is always the case in any election, not just this one, I will add.

So, if you are partying have fun - but a bit of sensitivity to those who are by turns feeling upset, rejected, fearful or a combination thereof would be kind


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Copied this from a friend on Facebook but seems this is the way forward now!

*Still in the EU for the next couple of years and the next few weeks will be interesting to say the least with all the scare mongering and initial uncertainty. The EU and the rest of the world will look at this and either think idiots OR good on you for having the balls to do it!!
After that who knows but we will be the makers of our and our kids futures. It's in our hands. Lets not let them or ourselves down!
Scared yes, nervous yes excited yes so 
let's do this UK, roll our sleeves up and crack in with it. The world will not stop spinning today.*

I was waking up every hour last night checking the count and was actually in disbelief when it got to 6 and it said we were out. I'm happy and worried at the same time I had this horrible feeling in my gut that we would remain which didnt ease until i realised we were leaving, though the feeling isn't completly gone with the uncertainty of what will happen now.

I personally think yes we are going to have a hard few years but in the long run I really believe there will be a better and brighter future for our future generations and I don't think there would be any good future if we stayed in the eu.


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

The amount of people i know who have quoted the EU putting regulations on how bent a banana is as an excuse (and similar) to come out baffles my brain, it was all made up by the papers and it worries me how many people voted leave because of all the nonsense papers have published.....Also I work with a Polish lass who became British early this year and she wasn't allowed to vote, the council who got her nationalization letter didn't put her on the electoral roll, she says lots of folks she knows have had the same so how many of those votes didn't get used.....Steve


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## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

I was undecided until I put the cross in the box. I voted based on facts that I had to scour the Internet for, and for that I am incredibly disappointed with all the politicians involved. Instead of facts, we got vitriol, scaremongering and in many cases we got downright lies. I voted one way, but I could easily have gone the other; armed with all my facts I ultimately went with my gut.
I am curious how it all pans out. A little bit worried, naturally! People have spoken, and we should respect the democratic outcome.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

I woke up and cried. I lived in Glasgow for 8 years, worked and paid my taxes for the same length of time. I volunteered with dementia patients. I earned 2 degrees and now have a job I love and several very close friends. I was supposed to apply for another degree this summer to start next year so I could get my qualification as an educational psychologist. During the campaign time I got to sit back, twiddle my thumbs and listen to absolute shite spoken by some biggest bigots I have ever seen. I wasn't allowed to vote. Now I don't know what will happen. Will I need a visa to stay? Should I apply for my masters and hope I can finish before uk leaves EU? Because otherwise I'm not allowed to get the degree - international students are not allowed to apply for this course just like many other postgrad degrees ( I will add here, that I would be paying 19k into the economy for doing this course). Meanwhile Betty from Kent voted to leave because she wants Britain to be great again. Guess what? You just put the last nail in the United kingdom's coffin. The voting in Scotland and NI very clearly shows that its not 'Britain' that voted to leave EU. It's England. Also, ironically, while people are preaching about how they voted to leave because it will make their grandchildren's futures better, figures show that the majority of leave supporters were 50+ while the youngest part of population voted to remain. It is them who will suffer the effects of recession and travel restriction. It is them who will have to apply for visas to go and study abroad to widen their horizons and have the opportunity to gain experience of international companies. On top of everything, I have to laugh about how people are brushing under the carpet the whole 'it will be hard for the first few years but it will be worth it in the long run". It is the same people who were shouting about how those who voted torries in, "don't care about the poorer and weaker". Who do you think will suffer the biggest consequences of recession? But hey, at least you can give the most vulnerable people apples in all sizes, right?!!!


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

stockwellcat said:


> I am having a few glasses of wine today.


Oh, me too, most definitely. We would normally celebrate something so big with a very serious bottle of bubbly but today the English stuff seems more appropriate....


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> Will it be worth it if house prices crash and are worth a small fraction of the mortgage placed on it? Or the NHS becomes a paid for service?


Yup.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Satori said:


> Oh, me too, most definitely. We would normally celebrate something so big with a very serious bottle of bubbly but today the English stuff seems more appropriate....
> 
> View attachment 275215


Mmm that looks nice.I am on my way round to yours


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

There's no denying that it will be hard and some parts of society are really going to suffer. We will end up with a new prime minister who is more than likely going to be far more right wing than DC ever was. Benefits etc will be cut even more I would imagine which in turn will make crime rates increase. I am also keen to see how interest rates pan out among other things. We have budgeted for fuel and food prices going up and we know that we will be ok. Testing times ahead but I am an optimist so I'm not overly worried. Being tarred as a racist xenophobe for voting out is far more upsetting to me


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Satori said:


> Oh, me too, most definitely. We would normally celebrate something so big with a very serious bottle of bubbly but today the English stuff seems more appropriate....
> 
> View attachment 275215


I have just been to the shop to get my stock to celebrate today. Please excuse the flag I didn't have a union jack one


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> I have just been to the shop to get my stock to celebrate today. Please excuse the flag I didn't have a union jack one


Given that the rest of the Union didn't vote in favour of an exit, an England flag is rather more appropriate anyway, don't you think?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Michael Gove and Boris need to lighten up - their press conference was hardly inspiring more like in mourning. If I'd wandered in not knowing the result I would have assumed it was to stay in or that the PM had died overnight. We need people to be positive and start planning our future now with enthusiasm and confidence.


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## Mr Gizmo (Jul 1, 2009)

Jesthar said:


> Given that the rest of the Union didn't vote in favour of an exit, an England flag is rather more appropriate anyway, don't you think?


Wales did.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Mr Gizmo said:


> Wales did.


But _they _aren't on the Union Flag, are they?


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I think Boris and Michael spoke well. We have nothing to celebrate at the moment, nearly half the population are unhappy and worried about their future and that of the country in general and they were sensitive to this. David Cameron, like him or not, is a respected politician and I think a lot of people in and outside his circle are sad to see him go, particularly as they don't like the alternatives. The Scotland sutuation is raising its ugly head again and some Labour people have issued a vote of no confidence in their leader. We're a very restless and divided UK on this day.


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

shadowmare said:


> I woke up and cried. Guess what? You just put the last nail in the United kingdom's coffin.


Someone needs a chill pill! I'm neither happy or wringing my hands in despair, it's an adventure & no one knows how it will go... much like staying in. The problems & unrest in the EU are real, there's no saying we would be better off in over the next few years.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Bisbow said:


> It was a relief to get a result, any result,
> The tension of late has be getting to much for some people.
> Now is the time to reflect and consider the future, it won't be easy, it would not have been either way'. No sense in getting uptight about it


I'm not 'up tight', I'm downright worried.

It could have been easy the other way, it was the status quo, now we are thrown into complete uncertainly, where even Boris Johnson doesn't know what to do now we're out.

It's ironic in a way though, as most who voted out wanted it that way as we are run by un-elected people, yet we will be getting an un-elected PM pretty soon.


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## Pawscrossed (Jul 2, 2013)

We have a divided nation and so it seems a very divided forum. A country that has been mislead by successive governments and let down. One terrible, tragic loss of one popular, hard working MP was not enough to sway the opinion that most politics are littered with threats and come with strings attached.

Communities across the country have been battered with fearful scaremongering that has relied on threats of economic upsets. But these are places that have been let down for years. It's no surprise that cites like Bath or Cambridge remain with large areas of economic growth outside the City and most of the large science, medical and University departments have close links with the EU. Threats make you fear loss and Cameron's gallery of business bods concerned the country with loss. This made many stick two fingers up and vote leave because their area might already have loss and see no sign of improvement.

Many posts on here are attempting to conflate racism when I have read very few accusations. Immigration is a broad term and the fear instilled by the campaigners played on deep fears in those communities - lack of housing, secure employment, living standards and public services. The analysis of the results shows a generation gap between the understanding of _immigration_ (as opposed to racism) and the tolerance.

Politically, asking Labour voters to get into bed with a flawed Tory PM is a disaster. A wobbly alignment. The new right Government will surely want an election to take advantage of the turmoil of Labour. Farage is on the television telling is that his guarantee of funding for the NHS was 'a mistake' and has forgotten that shots were fired in this campaign, just 6 days ago. And Cameron? A misguided soul who misjudged the mood. For many years he said that immigration needed to be addressed and failed to do so, so unsurprisingly yes it was an up yours vote. There were better ways, more inclusive ways to resolve immigration that his party could have addressed.

Many of the remainers are angry. This forum shows this and it does no good to stir up hatred between both sides. Leavers have complained of feeling marginalised and hated in the media and online. We have much in common then. All feeling a little concerned - it was hardly a landslide victory.

I will not tell you how I voted. But please for heaven's sake stop the bating and level out some understanding and compassion. People are really scared for jobs and futures. This forum would become a sorry and sad place, not the place I was welcomed to months ago during a time of sadness. It's no better than the rats in a bag of Twitter.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

BlackadderUK said:


> Someone needs a chill pill! I'm neither happy or wringing my hands in despair, it's an adventure & no one knows how it will go... much like staying in. The problems & unrest in the EU are real, there's no saying we would be better off in over the next few years.


See though, Scotland and NI doesn't want to go on this adventure. It's more like being kidnapped. Which is why Scotland is getting excited about the second indyref... And this time the results will be very different as most people who voted to stay in union did it because they didn't want out of EU. It will definitely be interesting to watch the development of this country and people's futures... I won't be surprised if emigration will go up because young people will want to use the chance while it's still easy enough! http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...ta-young_uk_576cd7d6e4b0232d331dac8f?xwpqr529


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Charity said:


> I think Boris and Michael spoke well. We have nothing to celebrate at the moment, nearly half the population are unhappy and worried about their future and that of the country in general and they were sensitive to this. David Cameron, like him or not, is a respected politician and I think a lot of people in and outside his circle are sad to see him go, particularly as they don't like the alternatives. The Scotland sutuation is raising its ugly head again and some Labour people have issued a vote of no confidence in their leader. We're a very restless and divided UK on this day.


I agree to an extent and have no problem with David Cameron as PM but do feel he should have kept out of the campaigning so that he was more able to take on the wishes of the voters and act on their behalf instead of so heavily backing one side and leaving himself with nowhere to go but resign. I'm sad to see him go in some ways and I don't want to see any gloating or flag waving celebrations but I do want to see some leaders emerge with a positive vision for the future who can pull everyone together with hope and confidence before the negativity and the doom mongers get too carried away. Which ever way the vote went we would have one side celebrating victory and one side sad and licking their wounds but this campaign had support from members of both political parties so I hope they can work together to bring people together.

@emmaviolet we will indeed have an un-elected PM soon just like we did when Gordon Brown was foisted upon us for 3 years which is of course because we don't vote for the prime minister but for our local MP to represent us, it is up to the party concerned to elect their leader.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> I'm not 'up tight', I'm downright worried.
> 
> It could have been easy the other way, it was the status quo, now we are thrown into complete uncertainly, where even Boris Johnson doesn't know what to do now we're out.
> 
> It's ironic in a way though, as most who voted out wanted it that way as we are run by un-elected people, yet we will be getting an un-elected PM pretty soon.


Surely, the new PM will be an elected member of parliament?

In a GE people tend to vote for a party rather than an individual, I think.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> Surely, the new PM will be an elected member of parliament?
> 
> In a GE people tend to vote for a party rather than an individual, I think.


Yes, but the leader has a huge bearing on it, that's why Ed Milliband had to go for labour, even though he won his seat, he lost it for labour.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

emmaviolet said:


> Yes, but the leader has a huge bearing on it, that's why Ed Milliband had to go for labour, even though he won his seat, he lost it for labour.


and Gordon Brown?


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

shadowmare said:


> See though, Scotland and NI doesn't want to go on this adventure. It's more like being kidnapped. Which is why Scotland is getting excited about the second indyref...


Wasn't the EU referendum already looming when the Scots had their independence vote? They decided to stay with the UK knowing that there was a possibility of a leave vote later. I do have some sympathy with the Northern Irish but look at this way, in the last general election the majority of the voters didn't vote Conservative but that's who they got...


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

emmaviolet said:


> I'm not 'up tight', I'm downright worried.
> 
> It could have been easy the other way, it was the status quo, now we are thrown into complete uncertainly, where even Boris Johnson doesn't know what to do now we're out.
> 
> It's ironic in a way though, as most who voted out wanted it that way as we are run by un-elected people, yet we will be getting an un-elected PM pretty soon.


We where in an uncertain future staying in the EU so what is different? Oh yes I know we have no foreign unelected or elected bureaucrats' telling us what to do and fleacing us of ridiculous amounts of money and how our cucumber and bananas should be shaped.

Smell the fresh air. Its called freedom.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Lurcherlad said:


> Surely, the new PM will be an elected member of parliament?
> 
> In a GE people tend to vote for a party rather than an individual, I think.


We need to be alot more careful now of who we vote into power. All the rules that used to govern us are about to go. Think before you vote when the new race for PM starts or we might regret it.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

stockwellcat said:


> We need to be alot more careful now of who we vote into power. All the rules that used to govern us are about to go. Think before you vote when the new race for PM starts or we might regret it.


Pretty sure the party will choose the leader.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I am proud, that despite being under IDS rule, my London borough actually voted for remain.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

shadowmare said:


> See though, Scotland and NI doesn't want to go on this adventure. It's more like being kidnapped. Which is why Scotland is getting excited about the second indyref... And this time the results will be very different as most people who voted to stay in union did it because they didn't want out of EU. It will definitely be interesting to watch the development of this country and people's futures... I won't be surprised if emigration will go up because young people will want to use the chance while it's still easy enough! http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...ta-young_uk_576cd7d6e4b0232d331dac8f?xwpqr529


London is being kidnapped too!

They said people who voted remain in the Scottish referendum are now considering switching to leave, especially as the fact their place in the EU was threatened when they took to the polling stations last time. Now they are in the UK, but out of the EU.

I hope they do vote leave and Ireland and we are left with a fractured country. Well done David, this will go down as a complete travesty in the history of the UK.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Perhaps that should change that when a PM quits a General Election should be triggered automatically especially now the Tory party is totally divided?

Just saying this could be the way future politics should be run.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Lurcherlad said:


> Pretty sure the party will choose the leader.


Perhaps that should change that when a PM quits a General Election should be triggered automatically especially now the Tory party is totally divided?

Just saying this could be the way future politics should be run.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

emmaviolet said:


> London is being kidnapped too!
> 
> They said people who voted remain in the Scottish referendum are now considering switching to leave, especially as the fact their place in the EU was threatened when they took to the polling stations last time. Now they are in the UK, but out of the EU.
> 
> I hope they do vote leave and Ireland and we are left with a fractured country. Well done David, this will go down as a complete travesty in the history of the UK.


I am in London and I am ashamed that my borough voted in but was pleased to see the overall vote. Difference in opinion.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Re the money for the NHS, if I recall correctly it was Vote Leave making that claim - Nigel Farage was not part of the Vote Leave campaign group.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

[]


rottiepointerhouse said:


> I agree to an extent and have no problem with David Cameron as PM but do feel he should have kept out of the campaigning so that he was more able to take on the wishes of the voters and act on their behalf instead of so heavily backing one side and leaving himself with nowhere to go but resign. I'm sad to see him go in some ways and I don't want to see any gloating or flag waving celebrations but I do want to see some leaders emerge with a positive vision for the future who can pull everyone together with hope and confidence before the negativity and the doom mongers get too carried away. Which ever way the vote went we would have one side celebrating victory and one side sad and licking their wounds but this campaign had support from members of both political parties so I hope they can work together to bring people together.
> 
> @emmaviolet we will indeed have an un-elected PM soon just like we did when Gordon Brown was foisted upon us for 3 years which is of course because we don't vote for the prime minister but for our local MP to represent us, it is up to the party concerned to elect their leader.


I agree with much of your post here RPH, I believe Cameron should have said he trusted the public to make up their own mind, stepped back, he could have said he was in, but not promote it.
I don't think Cameron ever wanted this referendum though, he didn't believe he would get a majority and could deflect it, like his last term, as being against what the combined government wanted.

I also think right now what we need is a government that is together and help the nation come together, however it seems to be fracturing as we speak and I believe even those politicians who have now got what they wanted are somewhat flummoxed as to how you now go forwards.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> I am in London and I am ashamed that my borough voted in but was pleased to see the overall vote. Difference in opinion.


What exactly is there to be ashamed of?

Just responding to your further point, we was free before, I never felt I wasn't free.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> we will indeed have an un-elected PM soon just like we did when Gordon Brown was foisted upon us for 3 years which is of course because we don't vote for the prime minister but for our local MP to represent us, it is up to the party concerned to elect their leader.


 I think that happened with John major too , though later he won an election.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Please. please, please can everyone stop panicking, calm down and stop looking at the bleakest outcome
Nobody knows what will happen next, only time will tell,
The end of the world is not here yet and if we pull together we can over come anything, history has proved that,

So p-lease, take a beep breath and think


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

This is sad. I won't be able to travel to England that often if I need a visa or passport


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Britt said:


> This is sad. I won't be able to travel to England that often if I need a visa or passport


This is exactly what I mean, who said you won't


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Jesthar said:


> But _they _aren't on the Union Flag, are they?


Scotland and England became United through James 6 of Scotland and 1 of England. Wales got beaten way back. Although, thanks to "Horrible Historys" rather catchy tune I now know the name Owain Glendower ( his family sent to the Tower...). I love history now, just bored/confused me at school.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I really don't think much will change to be honest, so I think the panic is a bit premature.


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## quagga (Jun 11, 2014)

Besides the fact that I'm disappointed with the result, I think it's pretty disgusting to refer to today as 'British Independence Day' - independence days celebrate the achievement of REAL independence for former colonies following long and often bloody struggles for freedom, not a sodding referendum on the EU membership of a former colonial power!!??

As much as I dislike Cameron, I fear that the alternatives are even worse


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> London is being kidnapped too!
> 
> They said people who voted remain in the Scottish referendum are now considering switching to leave, especially as the fact their place in the EU was threatened when they took to the polling stations last time. Now they are in the UK, but out of the EU.
> 
> I hope they do vote leave and Ireland and we are left with a fractured country. Well done David, this will go down as a complete travesty in the history of the UK.


That's exactly what will happen. The young people who voted to stay with UK 2 years ago, now will be voting out.


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

quagga said:


> As much as I dislike Cameron, I fear that the alternatives are even worse


I was watching the BBC earlier and a woman said "we will probably be stuck with Boris the buffoon"


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

shadowmare said:


> That's exactly what will happen. The young people who voted to stay with UK 2 years ago, now will be voting out.


But that is a good thing if that is what they want, a knee jerk reaction would not be sensible but if people vote for independence because they genuinely believe it is the right thing for their country then it is correct that country should have its independence.


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## Canarie (Sep 4, 2013)

When I found out the news this morning,it was with a sense of relief.We can decide our own destiny,take back control.The Remain campaign was full of hate.Leave don't know all the answers,and will make mistakes,but,least they will be OUR mistakes and not a unelected,paid bureaucrat in Brussels.

Canarie


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Canarie said:


> .The Remain campaign was full of hate.


Eh? Negativity and possible scaremongering yes but not hate. Plenty of that with some from the leave campaign.
Despite winning the referendum Mr Farage couldn't let it rest, speaking with venom towards the EU as a whole and wanting to see the whole organisation collapse. I call that hatred amongst many other things.....


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

shadowmare said:


> See though, Scotland and NI doesn't want to go on this adventure. It's more like being kidnapped. Which is why Scotland is getting excited about the second indyref... And this time the results will be very different as most people who voted to stay in union did it because they didn't want out of EU. It will definitely be interesting to watch the development of this country and people's futures... I won't be surprised if emigration will go up because young people will want to use the chance while it's still easy enough! http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...ta-young_uk_576cd7d6e4b0232d331dac8f?xwpqr529


The last thing Scotland needs is another referendum and the uncertainty that caused - it was hugely damaging for the economy.

I used to vote SNP - they said they would accept the results of the referendum ... they haven't - and for that reason I will never vote for them again!

I can assure you that the EU never crossed my mind when deciding whether I wanted Scotland to be independent or not!


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Will it be worth it if house prices crash and are worth a small fraction of the mortgage placed on it?


you still have to live somewhere, does the equity matter?


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2016)

I hope you get better results than we did when people voted the "populist party" in to power, as the third party in coalition government. Once in power, not a single promise was kept to help the poor, and so most of the "decisions" they made had to be reversed, because they had no idea what they actually meant, until experts pointed out the results. Now of course they have lost their popularity, and MPs have started to leave the party saying they don´t like the decisions their own party made.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> Surely, the new PM will be an elected member of parliament?
> 
> In a GE people tend to vote for a party rather than an individual, I think.


I also forgot earlier, that the house of lords, who have final say in everything that is passed, is also un-elected. 
So we are hardly free of the un-elected making our decisions for us.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

Canarie said:


> The Remain campaign was full of hate.


Eh?  Are we talking about the same referendum?  The referendum that had some of my 'friends' (now former friends) campaigning for 'leave' so we can 'get rid of all those foreigners'

(I should stress that I know people who voted leave for good reasons too, but the idea that the remain party is the only one guilty of hate is quite bizarre! )


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

quagga said:


> Besides the fact that I'm disappointed with the result, I think it's pretty disgusting to refer to today as 'British Independence Day' - independence days celebrate the achievement of REAL independence for former colonies following long and often bloody struggles for freedom, not a sodding referendum on the EU membership of a former colonial power!!??
> 
> As much as I dislike Cameron, I fear that the alternatives are even worse


Few people alive today had anything to do with the colonial days. I wasn't alive at that time myself and you can't blame people for the mistakes of past generations.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I've been paying a small amount of attention to the UK EU vote myself. It's interesting that the referendum passed and it's made the stock market jittery in the USA. I do wonder what will happen next since apparently the referendum isn't legally binding. The debate over the EU exit reminds me of debates over states rights in the states. I hope the EU exit doesn't cause problems for the UK and the rest of Europe. It could cause problems depending on where this goes or it could be a yawner (changes little). It's hard to say.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2016)

DogLover1981 said:


> Few people alive today had anything to do with the colonial days. I wasn't alive at that time myself and you can't blame people for the mistakes of past generations.


Right or wrong though, future generations pay the price of the actions of past generations. 
Wonder what seeds are being sowed now....


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

GBP seems to have rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in a few months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. Not all doom and gloom


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

One thing that's been puzzling me, maybe a stupid question to some? Sorry if so, but I haven't seen anything on what the Queen or the royal family think? Apart from she was asking questions at a dinner party or something.. But at a time like this when the country is so divided I really thought she'd of 'been there' . Not quite sure why I think the queen/royals would reassure us that all will be ok... But I've just been wondering what they think of it all.  are they 'allowed' to vote? Or do they have to be neutral? 

I still don't know how to feel. The whole 'sit back, relax & we'll see what happens / no one knows what will happen' attitude makes me nervous, in any situation, so this has me feeling very nervous. I really hope it's for the better & the country can unite again in the near future.

I can't stop thinking about the EU members living in the UK & UK members in the EU.. Something that doesn't affect me directly but I really hope it doesn't affect them much at all & they can all carry on living their lives as they please without worry.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

daisysmama said:


> GBP seems to have rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in a few months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. Not all doom and gloom


"For those of us who always knew that Project Fear was a shameful deceit, the speed and scale of the economic establishment's u-turn after Britain's astonishing, wonderful vote for independence came as little surprise.

Overnight, the great and the good suddenly remembered what they are paid to do and rushed to calm the financial markets. Rather than stoking fear and loathing, they moved to reassure: Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, who committed a major, unforgivable error of judgement when he backed George Osborne's campaign of disinformation, delivered a good, early morning speech to reassure a traumatised City.

He made it clear that the Bank stood ready to provide extra liquidity; had he chosen neutrality rather than partisanship, this would have been the kind of intervention he would have made during the campaign, explaining that he stood ready to facilitate whatever decision the British people chose to endorse. He has plenty more tools in his armoury if the volatility returns, or the economy slows too much.

It isn't just the Governor who has belatedly become much more constructive. Many of the other bodies that had previously warned of a catastrophe were we to Leave are now rightly focusing on trying to make the new reality work.

The IMF, in its most sensible statement since the referendum battle began, urged the UK and EU to negotiate a smooth transition. The G7 said that the UK economy and financial sector remain resilient, and that they are confident that Britain is "well-positioned" to address the consequences of the referendum outcome." That, of course, is the role of such organisations at a time like this: to pour oil over troubled waters."

Allister Heath, yesterday.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

From reading the papers this morning, they are going to report as much negative stuff as they can for sensationalism which will upset people more. Best thing at the moment is to ignore it all.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JenSteWillow said:


> I can't stop thinking about the EU members living in the UK & UK members in the EU.. Something that doesn't affect me directly but I really hope it doesn't affect them much at all & they can all carry on living their lives as they please without worry.


Every single politician that I heard yesterday, those for and against have all said that it should not affect anyone already here. Of course the scare mongers are saying different


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## quagga (Jun 11, 2014)

DogLover1981 said:


> Few people alive today had anything to do with the colonial days. I wasn't alive at that time myself and you can't blame people for the mistakes of past generations.


I think that's irrelevant TBH 

History is still important and we should learn from the mistakes of the past *cough* ultra nationalism *cough*.

But really the point I was making is that the UK hasn't achieved 'independence'. In fact it has been so independent for centuries that it's been able to threaten the autonomy of many other countries! It's laughable to compare leaving the EU through a referendum (membership is voluntary) with, for example, the Algerian War of Independence (thousands, perhaps millions of Algerians killed - colonialism NOT voluntary).


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

MilleD said:


> This sort of surprises me. I thought he would have the 'nads to at least ride it out a bit.


Why on earth should it surprise you? He pinned his colours to the Remain mast, and lost. If he didn't jump right now he would have been pushed very soon.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Charity said:


> From reading the papers this morning, they are going to report as much negative stuff as they can for sensationalism which will upset people more. Best thing at the moment is to ignore it all.


Yep ignore it and It'l all go away.

Il be the first to admit I think it has effected those from the EU living in the UK in a way which few Brits truly understand unless they have family / friends in that position.

And ditto the effect on Brits living within EU countries.

It raises a whole host of questions about possible travel restrictions and how they will be managed once we eventually leave (I'm guessing signing a declaration when entering the UK?) to simple things like driving licenses... What was good enough no longer is - Now these people have to prove the self almost..

Not forgetting the fact there's alot of people suddenly not feeling quite so at home and welcome.

With the ultimate insult being asked 'why not just apply for citizenship?'

I'm happy for those who are happy with the result - Good on them but for a lot of people it's not as simple as ignoring it.


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## WillowT (Mar 21, 2015)

My husband and I are just glad we can still pull an all nighter :Wacky


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

JenSteWillow said:


> One thing that's been puzzling me, maybe a stupid question to some? Sorry if so, but I haven't seen anything on what the Queen or the royal family think? Apart from she was asking questions at a dinner party or something.. But at a time like this when the country is so divided I really thought she'd of 'been there' . Not quite sure why I think the queen/royals would reassure us that all will be ok... But I've just been wondering what they think of it all.  are they 'allowed' to vote? Or do they have to be neutral?


The Queen is famed for not getting overtly involved in politics, or commenting publicly on such things. It's a very sensible approact, to be honest - she is Queen no matter what, and taking political stances would only lead to trouble both with the populace and the politiicians.

Although we WILL need her influence a lot in the coming years - she has much better links with many key countries, such as the oil prodicing nations, than our politicians can ever hope for


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Milliepoochie said:


> Yep ignore it and It'l all go away.
> 
> Il be the first to admit I think it has effected those from the EU living in the UK in a way which few Brits truly understand unless they have family / friends in that position.
> 
> ...


I'm not suggesting we ignore what is going to happen, just all the scaremongering which will be going on, particularly in the media. Even though I voted out and, yes, I'm happy with the result but I still felt sad yesterday that so many people were so unhappy and scared about their future, particularly those who feel they are no longer welcome in this country or Brits in other countries. But, there's another section of the community who have paid their way in this country all their life and are very frightened by a fragile worsening state of the country and I'm one of those. Its also not the non-British people already living here which bothers people, its those who haven't come yet will be allowed to come which will mean our resources and services will be overwhelmed, less effective and less available.


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Several friends have been given notice by their employers, their projects rely on EU funding and as it cannot be guaranteed for their five year projects they have been let go. 

Thats five people in the dole queue just from my social circle, one is buying his first property so thats going to fall through now, his wife was also due to be coming over, but now thats on hold until he can find another job that pays enough to sponsor her entry to the UK.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

So sorry to hear about your friends @Vanessa131 They are the kind of people I have been thinking of - those who are already suffering & worrying about their futures. It must be so hard hearing other people cheering and telling remainers to 'get used to it - it'll be fine' when you know that it won't be for you. I've been getting seriously annoyed with all the 'toys out of the pram' comments people keep making. People who voted remain are upset & worried, and need sympathy, not insults.


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

Science, technology and manufacturing is dying here. I don't know what will happen to the science, engineering and technology sector without EU funding now. I may be well and truly out of a livelihood in the next two years if something isn't done quickly about it. When the results came in, I felt physically sick- like I lost a close relative and didn't know how to articulate it.

Everything might be hunky dory in the future, yes, but the boat's been upset now and whatever I have been doing for the last five years to integrate myself into this country and build my skill set just felt like a big slap in the face. It was extremely hurtful that this was, in the end, made into a battle about immigrants. I was so hurt to the point of stopping the Leavers and showing them my P60 and so many pounds of taxes that I have paid to live, work and be an honest citizen in this country- on top of visa fees (imagine someone on minimum wage scrambling together £650 for a visa extension, on top of other bills). I paid my taxes even when I only ate porridge and baked potatoes- as that was the only food I could afford, after rent and bills. 

Let me tell you what being an immigrant means to me- I was raised in a certain culture and I have assimilated the best of what it had to offer. I am an active member in the community, I vote religiously (even for the local police commissioner) and being British is extremely important to me. I'm lucky to have the best of both worlds, as one culture made me appreciate the other one and vice versa. Until yesterday I was proud of who we are and how welcoming this wonderful place has been to me. Yesterday when I stepped out of my house, I felt afraid and alienated. I'm sure everyone who is/ was an immigrant once felt like me. 

Added to that, my best friend is an EU citizen and has recently come here to work for a change of scenery, and possibly pursue another Masters/ doctorate degree. He is living with us for the time being and within two weeks, found a very good job and is about to start his contract on the Monday. He has been extremely fearful all of Friday, expecting a call where someone would tell him that he needn't start. Now he is quite confused and scared- does he need a visa, will someone throw him out of his job when any rules change?

What about all the expats in the EU countries now, people with villas in the south of france, and houses on Costa del Sol? Imagine having to go through the visa process every single time you want to have a stag do in Amsterdam/ Prague or having a family holiday in Majorca? What if you are offered a wonderful, life changing opportunity in the country you have always wanted to work in? I'm grateful for that opportunity I had once and quite disappointed that I may never be able to experience it again. 

That is two days of my sadness and uncertainty here. I'm not slagging anyone off who voted leave. I understand where you came from. I just hope this decision is EXECUTED rightly, otherwise we're all in a big mess.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Sh N said:


> Science, technology and manufacturing is dying here. .


leaving cant hurt then


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

Sh N said:


> Until yesterday I was proud of who we are and how welcoming this wonderful place has been to me. *Yesterday when I stepped out of my house, I felt afraid and alienated.*


I've got to ask.. why? Nothing has really changed, all EU rules will apply for at least 2 years. Even after that I doubt very much that we'll be rounding up people like yourself & sending them "home"... people need to calm down, lets see how this works out.


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

BlackadderUK said:


> I've got to ask.. why? Nothing has really changed, all EU rules will apply for at least 2 years. Even after that I doubt very much that we'll be rounding up people like yourself & sending them "home"... people need to calm down, lets see how this works out.


It took until today morning to get away from all that wild speculation, calm down, sink in and think this through rationally! But I was definitely a little jumpy going to my local Asda yesterday.



Colliebarmy said:


> leaving cant hurt then


Honestly don't know how to respond to this. We are at the brink of losing creativity, originality and innovation. It takes a few dedicated resources and a heightened morale and a sense of security to innovate, and for a country that will spend some time 'recovering', innovation will be the last thing on our minds.


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

Sh N said:


> It took until today morning to get away from all that wild speculation, calm down, sink in and think this through rationally! But I was definitely a little jumpy going to my local Asda yesterday.
> .


Everyone needs to chill & let it work itself out, it will 100%. Quite why you thought someone in Asda was gunning for you is a bit surreal.


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

BlackadderUK said:


> Everyone needs to chill & let it work itself out, it will 100%. Quite why you thought someone in Asda was gunning for you is a bit surreal.


It is a difficult feeling to explain! You do tend to buckle down a bit when you're scared and stressed about the future, sometimes. It might have well been an overreaction- thinking in hindsight, but it was very real.

Anyway, I'm waiting to see how it pans out too.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

BlackadderUK said:


> Everyone needs to chill & let it work itself out, it will 100%. Quite why you thought someone in Asda was gunning for you is a bit surreal.


I was a bit nervous about leaving the house on Friday, just because of how I voted, as if it were tattooed on my forehead, so God knows how immigrants feel!

I understand you abstained from voting, is that right? If so, that explains your confusion/inability to understand how it feels - either to be an immigrant, or a Remain voter.



Sh N said:


> It is a difficult feeling to explain! You do tend to buckle down a bit when you're scared and stressed about the future, sometimes. It might have well been an overreaction- thinking in hindsight, but it was very real.
> 
> Anyway, I'm waiting to see how it pans out too.


You shouldn't have to explain yourself, or how you feel, at all.

I am so sorry that you and many other immigrants (especially new ones) now feel unwelcome.


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> I understand you abstained from voting, is that right? If so, that explains your confusion/inability to understand how it feels - either to be an immigrant, or a Remain voter.


No, abstaining from the vote is not something I would do as a responsible citizen. It is a right, so why abstain from it? It is as good as casting an invalid vote. I recently became a citizen because I have worked my way long and hard to integrate myself and merit this opportunity, and I can take advantage of the single market to be able to work and live in the EU member states too. It saves me hoop jumping in other countries. I have experienced globalisation first hand, so why deny myself another opportunity if it came my way in the future?

I am not white and I don't have a british accent, and have been a victim of racism when I was new to this country (at the height of troops dying in Afghanistan, I have had rocks thrown at me as I was walking back from work one day- young boys yelling at me to 'f-ing go back to my country'). I felt yesterday that the xenophobia was very real- three months earlier, I proudly stood in the town hall and pledged that "I will give my loyalty to the United Kingdom and respect its rights and freedoms. I will uphold its democratic values. I will observe its laws faithfully and fulfil my duties and obligations as a British citizen". I didn't sacrifice all I had to feel that way, yesterday, I guess.

It is just that frustration I felt for people who are in limbo right now, going through hoops for a better life for themselves (legally, mind you) and who are finding their hopes dashed. I might be out of the woods with a shiny new passport that will make people accept me, but what about the millions who live, work and contribute here who are stereotyped because of their nationalities?

In any case, what is done, is done, and no matter how many petitions get signed, we can't change things. Let's hope that the divorce gets a little considerate and amicable and our politicians get working on picking up the pieces. I, of course, will do whatever is asked of me.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Charity said:


> I'm not suggesting we ignore what is going to happen, just all the scaremongering which will be going on, particularly in the media. Even though I voted out and, yes, I'm happy with the result but I still felt sad yesterday that so many people were so unhappy and scared about their future, particularly those who feel they are no longer welcome in this country or Brits in other countries. But, there's another section of the community who have paid their way in this country all their life and are very frightened by a fragile worsening state of the country and I'm one of those. Its also not the non-British people already living here which bothers people, its those who haven't come yet will be allowed to come which will mean our resources and services will be overwhelmed, less effective and less available.


Whose to say that a lot of European Migrants havnt paid their way in the country their whole working life?

My husband was a migrant worker - he has worked his entire working life in the UK. He has paid taxes and National insurance his whole working life - and by working life I don't mean 24-35 hours a week he was working 100 hours a week for a number of years.

Who are these people who will be coming but havnt yet?

I for one know of quite a few who came for a few years realised how hard it is and how expensive living is in the UK and decided it wasn't for them but I guess those stories don't make good headlines the Eastern Europeans going home.

The majority don't come to live off benefits - Of course some do but the reality is they can do that at home. Every nation has their leaches who don't pay into the system but takes and takes and takes including in the UK. If resources are stretched maybe we should be also looking closer to home at how they can be best utilised...

Seeing on the local news how Poles in a neighbouring county had laminated signs with 'No more Polish Vermon' posted through their doors makes me feel sick to the stomach.

I know this is not the opinion of everyone who voted out and I am not trying to suggest it is or that everyone who voted out is racists - I know there not but the false claims from the Leave party have cause huge raised tensions and raised a lot of hidden racism which has been previously more hidden.

I genuinely believe a lot of people voted leave thinking the NHS would get 350 Million a week (suprise surprise that was never a promise now although was plastered over the campaign bus) and that migrant numbers would reduce significantly (which they likely won't) - A lot of people have been very misled.

I am extremely worried for the future - Not just financially but what it holds for non British who have made the UK their home.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

BlackadderUK said:


> Everyone needs to chill & let it work itself out, it will 100%. Quite why you thought someone in Asda was gunning for you is a bit surreal.


How will it work itself out when leave have admitted they don't even have a plan?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> Whose to say that a lot of European Migrants havnt paid their way in the country their whole working life?
> 
> My husband was a migrant worker - he has worked his entire working life in the UK. He has paid taxes and National insurance his whole working life - and by working life I don't mean 24-35 hours a week he was working 100 hours a week for a number of years.
> 
> ...


I'm just so, so sorry for you and your hubby and all people who feel like this now. Especially with those laminated racist cards, that people now feel it is ok to do that. People have reported that people have said 'your next, you'll be out soon', to people who were born here anyway.

I told the story of me and my mother being told yesterday we wasn't from here because of our dark looks. When she recounted the story someone said, 'well they have a right to check'.
Check for what? I feel we are moving towards a country that makes people carry or wear something to identify if they were born here or not. I feel an unease about all of this, the ill feeling that is spreading, a lot of people feel that this result has entitled them to come out and say disgusting thing.

I'm just sorry.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

BlackadderUK said:


> Everyone needs to chill & let it work itself out, it will 100%. Quite why you thought someone in Asda was gunning for you is a bit surreal.


There are already lots and lots of people on fb and twitter sharing stories of racial abuse that has been hurled at them since the vote. I can certainly understand how difficult it must be to 'chill' when confronted with people telling you to 'f*** off back home'.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Sh N said:


> No, abstaining from the vote is not something I would do as a responsible citizen. It is a right, so why abstain from it? It is as good as casting an invalid vote. I recently became a citizen because I have worked my way long and hard to integrate myself and merit this opportunity, and I can take advantage of the single market to be able to work and live in the EU member states too. It saves me hoop jumping in other countries. I have experienced globalisation first hand, so why deny myself another opportunity if it came my way in the future?


I think there's been a misunderstanding somewhere. I was asking Blackadder if THEY had abstained from voting - not you.

All I said to you was that you shouldn't have to explain your feelings, or indeed, yourself.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

If people don't realise what democracy is, they've had a harsh but necessary lesson. It's not a protest, it's about the issue being voted for.

I get the youth being dissapointed however why do the youth have more rights than the older generation. Should anyone over 50 be barred from voting. Why not do the same at a general election? That isn't democracy.

Time to actually abide by the result and time to actually start the process and at the same time, start the healing the divisions.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

I work in healthcare which is obviously extremely diverse, and a lot our European nurses were in a complete tizzy about the result. These are of course hard working UK tax payers, working full time in our massively over stretched healthcare services, who in many cases have been made to feel unwelcome in the country they have lived in for years and contribute to significantly. I'm sure they will all calm down a little in the coming weeks when the media scaremongering and propaganda dies down, but I am annoyed that people I am close to have been made to feel this way.

Meanwhile you have generations of families in this country who do not contribute a penny, but that is ok coz dey iz British innit.....


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2016)

emmaviolet said:


> I told the story of me and my mother being told yesterday we wasn't from here because of our dark looks. When she recounted the story someone said, 'well they have a right to check'.
> Check for what?


That's insane! And scary 

What is "British" anyway?
When you take over half of the world for as long as the British Empire did, does anyone really think anglo-saxon lily white really represents what a British person is?

It reminds me of the anti immigrant sentiment in this country. As if all white people aren't immigrants duh. Unless you're native american or forcibly brought here through slavery, guess what, you're all immigrants. Not to mention how many latinos who are american because the border crossed them, not because they crossed the border.

It would be silly if it weren't so clearly divisive.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> That's insane! And scary
> 
> What is "British" anyway?
> When you take over half of the world for as long as the British Empire did, does anyone really think anglo-saxon lily white really represents what a British person is?
> ...


What was crazy was this man we have known for many years and always say hello to him with Alfie.
He said we would never be leave because 'you know', we said we didn't have any idea, what, he said 'well you're not really from here are you, where are you from originally?' There was a tone too. It made us feel very strange and I can understand the other poster feeling strange going to asda as we felt strange walking the dog today.

I agree, we are from everywhere in this country if you trace us back. Who cares? We are all people, why are we so afraid? Why are people afraid of people with skin slightly darker then theirs. I heard a woman on the wright stiff on Friday tell a story of her in the market and she didn't see one white face. Why do people have to notice what colour the faces are? Can't you just look to see if they are happy?

I think we are onto some very sad times.


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> I think there's been a misunderstanding somewhere. I was asking Blackadder if THEY had abstained from voting - not you.


Sorry! My bad!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

stockwellcat said:


> I have just been to the shop to get my stock to celebrate today. Please excuse the flag I didn't have a union jack one
> View attachment 275219


Oh just noticed - French wine....


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> I am extremely worried for the future - Not just financially but what it holds for non British who have made the UK their home.


Quite telling the difference. This is from the "Bild" the German Sun equivalent, a full page spread, scantily glad lady with union jack in background:



> Dear ‪#‎Brefugees‬,
> Brit happens! But luckily there's the German 'welcome culture'. Rest assured: If you leave your island because of the ‪#‎Brexit‬, your quirky, lovable kind will find a new home with us. Miss Germany Isabel Buder-Gülck, 25, from Elmshorn shows you what to expect: We do have the prettier girls (even from a sober perspective) and our guys are rather cute, too. Plus: Our beer has a head. You'd only have to concede that the Wembley goal 1966 wasn't over the line.
> So do come over to us.
> Together we will make zis through.
> ...


Know several Germans in the UK. All have said it's the first time they have been made unwelcome in the country in which they have settled and actively contribute to.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I bet £50 that if I walk into a popular supermarket in five years' time I will see no curly cucumbers and no straight bananas. The fruit and veg will look same as it does today. Anyone want to take me up on that?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> I agree, we are from everywhere in this country if you trace us back. Who cares? We are all people, why are we so afraid? Why are people afraid of people with skin slightly darker then theirs. I heard a woman on the wright stiff on Friday tell a story of her in the market and she didn't see one white face. Why do people have to notice what colour the faces are? Can't you just look to see if they are happy?
> .


You have a point but what if those faces aren't happy to see you .
People bang on about racism and they mean white people being racist to blacks/asian , they rarely think of it as the other way round.
Maybe they don't think that Asian don't resent the Polish or that white women never get called white bitch .


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

MollySmith said:


> Oh just noticed - *French wine*....


I would never have anything, only soon it will start to cost a lot more the same as their lovely cheeses.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Happy Paws said:


> I would never have anything, only soon it will start to cost a lot more the same as their lovely cheeses.


I thought it hugely ironic that @stockwellcat was celebrating with French wine and an English flag! There are lots of rather nice English wines


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

ouesi said:


> That's insane! And scary
> 
> What is "British" anyway?
> When you take over half of the world for as long as the British Empire did, does anyone really think anglo-saxon lily white really represents what a British person is?
> ...


Why can't we be "British " just because of some racists . People who have a British passport are British , people I know who have a British passport and not born in England call themselves British . They are from our commonwealth .

Yes, the people in the US are immigrants , they have US passports , they call themselves American and they celebrate Independence day so why cant be British and, those that want to , celebrate "independence " from the EU?

being "british , is many things , our quirky sense of humour , waiting in queues , using any excuse to get drunk .

Its a shame that being patriotic is seen as racist, patriotism binds people together .
perhaps that is why the US has managed to remain the united states because their country comes first , they sing with their hand on their hearts .


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

These are the possible choices for the next Prime Minister apparently if they put their hat in the ring
































Boris Johnson George Osborne Michael Gove Stephen Crabb Theresa May

or may be one of these









Dominic Rabb, Nicky Morgan, Liam Fox, Sajid Javid, Andrea Leadsom


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

My money is on Michael Gove as my vote will be if he gets to the final two.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Yes, Michael Gove gets my vote (except I won't have one).


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I was born here and my family line can be traced back throughout history and I am TT and wouldn't 'use any excuse to get drunk'. If that's even something to be proud of in being British?

Ouesi, I think, was saying that there is no one British. We are from all over, people migrated here, they always have, always will. But people seem to be 'us' and 'them'. The woman on the news said she 'we don't want any of them in, just us, British' What does that mean? I am not one if 'us' if it means being like her.

People can be so blind when it comes to being 'British' and not wanting people to migrate here, however Prince Phillip himself was born in Greece.

Being British, to me, is being open to new people, who have different backgrounds and ethnicity's, it's fluid and evolving, not closed off and it's helping those in need, wherever they come from. That's what it means to me.
Anyone can be British, of any race or background and also, people can live here and not be British if they want. Who really cares? British people live out in Spain and they are British still, not Spanish.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2016)

kimthecat said:


> Why can't we be "British " just because of some racists . People who have a British passport are British , people I know who have a British passport and not born in England call themselves British . They are from our commonwealth .
> 
> Yes, the people in the US are immigrants , they have US passports , they call themselves American and they celebrate Independence day so why cant be British and, those that want to , celebrate "independence " from the EU?
> 
> ...


Wow, so many points here that I disagree with!

I have an American passport and believe me, I am not considered an American by many. They call me a foreigner to my face and ask me if I came here legally or not. My father is a direct descendant of one of our founding fathers for christ sake, yet, I'm still not "American" enough for some. 
I'm not naive enough to think a similar sentiment isn't happening across the pond.

Please do not compare a democratic vote to leave the EU - an organization joined by choice, not by force, to the independence fights hard won by people who had their homelands commandeered by force by Empires like the Spanish and English ones. It's ridiculous and shows a shocking lack of understanding of other peoples and global history.

Being British means using any excuse to get drunk? I can't even take that seriously.

I never once mentioned racism anywhere on any of these threads. So suggesting I equate being patriotic as racist is ridiculous and just looking for a way to take offense where there is none. If patriotism binds people together, then it's time to start leading by example and BE inclusive of all the citizens under your commonwealth. 
As I said in another thread (or this one, I'm losing track), you are in this together. Enough with the talk of winners and losers and who is British and who isn't, and start unifying as a people. That's not going to happen with so many of the attitudes displayed on these threads where it's all about us versus them.

Singing the national anthem with your hand on your heart isn't what keeps a country together, and if you have been paying any attention, you might have noticed that our nation is every much as fractured as yours. This is why I'm following these events so closely. Hell even Donald Trump was in Scotland Friday talking about how the Brexit campaign mirrors his own. That's not something I find at all reassuring for you and your country or for me and mine...


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I genuinely don't think immigration in general is the issue here, but rather the way in which it's gone about currently. Many people I've since spoken to regarding why they chose to leave is because they hope immigration will be controlled now, thorough vetting is done, and mainly only skilled workers are allowed in. Not a free for all with people with no plans in place once they arrive here. Certainly my own stand on immigration has always been that I think more checks should be in place and if that's one thing that comes from this then I think it's a good thing.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Its quite right that probably hardly any of us are actually British if you go back far enough. The Royal Family's descent is German and they changed their name to Windsor from Sax Coburg and Gotha in 1917 because of anti-German feeling at the time. I think the problem is that its really not that long ago, like when I was a child back in the 50s certainly, that there was a great deal of prejudice. There were very few 'foreign', i.e. not born in Britain, people in this country compared to today. The only people I recall ever knowing about as a child were Jewish and they were considered different in those days. It was frowned upon for a white person to marry a black person. Times have changed drastically but some people's views haven't, and not just in Britain, and I would hate for that sort of prejudice, the 'them' and 'us' culture, to raise its ugly head again in today's world.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Being British means using any excuse to get drunk? I can't even take that seriously.


Then you really don't know the British !

http://www.bing.com/search?q=drunk+...=-1&sk=&cvid=2A7A77F6785E4D83A5817E2A69648F73

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/04/brits200704


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I don't associate the British with getting drunk.

Don't have to go back far in my family to find immigrants; my grandfather came to the UK as a child.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2016)

kimthecat said:


> Then you really don't know the British !
> 
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=drunk+...=-1&sk=&cvid=2A7A77F6785E4D83A5817E2A69648F73


Like I said, I can't take any of that seriously, or you for posting it, even in jest.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

What has being drunk got to do with being British? Another non drinker here. Can't stand the stuff and can't stand being around others when they are drunk.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Rottie , that a generalism . I don't drink either , Apparently, the Brits like their beer and curry but I don't like curry !


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Like I said, I can't take any of that seriously, or you for posting it, even in jest.


That's your prerogative and I *really * don't care what you think . Have a nice day now .


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Charity said:


> Yes, Michael Gove gets my vote (except I won't have one).


That could be worse than Boris.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2016)

kimthecat said:


> That's your prerogative and I *really * don't care what you think . Have a nice day now .


And there goes the stereotype of Brits being so polite...


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

Happy Paws said:


> That could be worse than Boris.


Remember though good old Gove introduced maths to primary schools, when asked how he believed children learned maths at school before his 'introduction' he couldn't answer, funny that.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

ouesi said:


> And there goes the stereotype of Brits being so polite...


 We are until we get peed off . Look at Boudica !
We tend to use the v sign a lot or perhaps the US one finger salute is more popular now !


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> Then you really don't know the British !
> 
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=drunk+...=-1&sk=&cvid=2A7A77F6785E4D83A5817E2A69648F73
> 
> http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/04/brits200704


Not all Brits like to get drunk


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

MollySmith said:


> I thought it hugely ironic that @stockwellcat was celebrating with French wine and an English flag! There are lots of rather nice English wines


I celebrated with English fizz.

Started my own war on terroir.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> We are until we get peed off . Look at Boudica !
> We tend to use the v sign a lot or perhaps the US one finger salute is more popular now !


Speak for yourself Mrs. My insult of choice involves the whole hand


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Another thing is our generosity, we're a small island but we raise millions of pounds each year for charities , 
Spot relief , Children in need , comic relief. etc


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> Another thing is our generosity, we're a small island but we raise millions of pounds each year for charities ,
> Spot relief , Children in need , comic relief. etc


I recommend dabbing it with a little tea tree oil.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

The only thing worst than a Tory government is a more right-wing Tory government with plebs like Johnson and Gove at it's helm. Johnson I don't have words for and Gove couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, smarmy little man. God help us.....and this is exactly why this sort of decision should not be down to the public.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

labradrk said:


> The only thing worst than a Tory government is a more right-wing Tory government with plebs like Johnson and Gove at it's helm. Johnson I don't have words for and Gove couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, smarmy little man. God help us.....and this is exactly why this sort of decision should not be down to the public.


I look forward to several more terms of a real Tory government. The gift to Conservatism that is Jeremy Corbyn, bless him, may embolden Boris to call a snap general election. It'd be a risk of course but maybe one worth taking for a Tory government with a truly dominant majority. He'll need to unite the party and sort out the upper house too so it's an enormous job; truly exciting times though.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> Not all Brits like to get drunk


I think those who do tend to binge drink .


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Speak for yourself Mrs. My insult of choice involves the whole hand


 Well , you're no lady. What would Tom say !


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> Well , you're no lady. What would Tom say !


Who is Tom? if you mean Tom Jones he isn't my type so I don't really care what he would say


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Satori said:


> I look forward to several more terms of a real Tory government. .


Ah yes, the Poll Tax, Clause 28 and probably soon dismantling of the NHS.
They also opposed the minimum wage in 1997.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

labradrk said:


> The only thing worst than a Tory government is a more right-wing Tory government with plebs like Johnson and Gove at it's helm. Johnson I don't have words for and Gove couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, smarmy little man. God help us.....and this is exactly why this sort of decision should not be down to the public.


Who should it be down to then? only left wing members of select organisations?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Who is Tom? if you mean Tom Jones he isn't my type so I don't really care what he would say


yuck , no I meant the Night manager (swoon) , didnt you admire his bum or have I got the wrong person?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> yuck , no I meant the Night manager (swoon) , didnt you admire his bum or have I got the wrong person?


:Shamefullyembarrased:Shamefullyembarrased I did indeed but I'd completely forgotten his name. Fickle, very fickle.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Maybe, instead of hauling out the stereotypes the thread might want to look at this teaching pack and talk about what it mean to be British (keeping in mind that this would be taught to young voters.. )
https://www.dur.ac.uk/geography/race/lesson_1/

Speaking of Tom...

"I once heard someone say morality was method. Do you hold with that? I suppose you wouldn't. You would say that morality was vested in the aim, I expect. Difficult to know what one's aims are, that's the trouble, specially if you're British." John le Carré, Tinker, Tailor, Solider, Spy.


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

I think we all need to realise that we're all in it together now (remember the speech) and regardless of our roots, we all fall under the British umbrella. I think we need to learn to integrate more with our neighbours and local community. I for one her home from work and shut my gates never giving a second thought to what goes on in my cul de sac. My husband's family were immigrants (Irish navis) who settled in Liverpool and then moved to Yorkshire. My roots are Yorkshire for generations which I find incredibly boring! 
Regarding the new PM. Gove doesn't want the job and whoever gets it will have all the agreements to write up for us leaving which will be a high pressured and thankless task. I'm not convinced about Corbyn especially as his party is on it's bum with people leaving and unrest in the camp. Many people don't like him


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

So many points to address.



LinznMilly said:


> I understand you abstained from voting, is that right?


Yes I did abstain for so many reasons... too many to post here! I'll give a couple.

The EU is moving in a direction I don't like, I'm all for co-operation on everything from trade to defence but that's not the vision of the EU IMO & is perfectly summed up by Angela Merkel after the exit vote


> We take note of the British people's decision with regret. *There is no doubt that this is a blow to Europe and to the European unification process*


*
*
What does unification mean? I don't like the sound of it or do I want what I think it means.... The EU needs to reform, drastically! But it's only now, after the vote, that Europes leaders have acknowledged that & have actually spoken out.

Voting leave also had it's problems, Nigel Farage for one! There is no way I could vote for anything that this guy supported... in fact his views almost made me vote remain on their own. Petty? Probably but there you go. There was also the massive uncertainty of a leave result.
In the end I gave it a miss.

I feel for immigrants who suddenly feel unwelcome & threatened but I truly don't understand why... idiots on facebook/twitter have always been idiots, they have been there as long as social media has existed (& before). Nothing has really changed, really it hasn't & it will be a minimum of 2 years before the UK exits (if at all)


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Not sure if the link will work as I'm on my phone but... Is this what people meant when they said the wanted Britain to be Great again?... https://m.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/albums/10101369198638985/


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

shadowmare said:


> Not sure if the link will work as I'm on my phone but... Is this what people meant when they said the wanted Britain to be Great again?... https://m.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/albums/10101369198638985/


That was the thread I was trying to avoid sharing, it's miserable isn't it? 

I said to @Lurcherlad on one of the many EU threads on here that it wasn't anything most leave voters would have expected but more that this is whole situation means this depraved bunch of halfwits are taking advantage of it in the brainless illusion that they have support. From some, probably they do. But I'd like to think nobody on PF would think this 'great' and that those 'supporters' are a minority. If anyone is stupid enough to think that the mosques and ethnic shops that make this country so diverse and amazing, will be closed down, they shouldn't be in charge of a pencil.


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## MiloandTazzy (Dec 10, 2014)

shadowmare said:


> Not sure if the link will work as I'm on my phone but... Is this what people meant when they said the wanted Britain to be Great again?... https://m.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/albums/10101369198638985/


Awful video on the channel 4 news facebook too


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

shadowmare said:


> Not sure if the link will work as I'm on my phone but... Is this what people meant when they said the wanted Britain to be Great again?... https://m.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/albums/10101369198638985/


Wow... Just wow...

If this is the "new" UK then is it too late to get the old one back?

Makes me ashamed to call myself British to be honest and those people should be ashamed, utterly disgraceful.


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

shadowmare said:


> Not sure if the link will work as I'm on my phone but... Is this what people meant when they said the wanted Britain to be Great again?... https://m.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/albums/10101369198638985/


To the person who asked me why I felt insecure in my local Asda on Friday. This is why. I was scared someone would shout racist abuse at me because I have brown skin. It felt real.

Absolutely horrified. This sends chills down my spine.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

@Sh N please hang on to the fact that these people are a very vocal MINORITY! I know it is scary - I would be feeling terrible in your position - but the majority don't think this way, so please keep reminding yourself of that. Hugs x


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Sh N said:


> To the person who asked me why I felt insecure in my local Asda on Friday. This is why. I was scared someone would shout racist abuse at me because I have brown skin. It felt real.
> 
> Absolutely horrified. This sends chills down my spine.


I do understand. I was born and bred in Poland. Spent most of my adult years abroad, married British..but cannot change my face ..
If we have to leave Gibraltar then OH wants to stay in UK ( as non EU..where else?)..but I will not go there?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

stuaz said:


> Wow... Just wow...
> 
> If this is the "new" UK then is it too late to get the old one back?
> 
> Makes me ashamed to call myself British to be honest and those people should be ashamed, utterly disgraceful.


It is dreadful that this sort of thing is going on. I hope everything settles down quickly.

It's very sad that anyone should feel unsafe or vulnerable. I would hope that most decent people would abhor such behaviour.

It doesn't make *me *feel ashamed to be British though because I don't associate myself with those morons, nor do they represent me or the majority of British people IMO.


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## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

CuddleMonster said:


> @Sh N please hang on to the fact that these people are a very vocal MINORITY! I know it is scary - I would be feeling terrible in your position - but the majority don't think this way, so please keep reminding yourself of that. Hugs x





cheekyscrip said:


> I do understand. I was born and bred in Poland. Spent most of my adult years abroad, married British..but cannot change my face ..
> If we have to leave Gibraltar then OH wants to stay in UK ( as non EU..where else?)..but I will not go there?


Thank you so much. I am extremely fortunate to work in a place that is ethnically diverse and when it comes to science and technology, there are no borders and races- we're all working towards something new and exciting.

I live in a very quiet neighbourhood so haven't experienced any of the fallout, but fear makes you see things in a different way. Me, my OH and my best friend (who is Swedish and staying with us) silently went about our weekly shop at the supermarket on Friday evening. My friend wanted to vent out his fear as we all hadn't talked the full day, but I had to shush him quite harshly, saying that we can go home and talk about it over coffee because we were speaking in English and someone could easily overhear us. That fear is something we all shouldn't feel.

As I said on another thread (or maybe this one, I don't remember!), I have experienced racial abuse before, and it was not very pleasant. Its just made me want to stand on my guard again, and I shouldn't be really feeling that either.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

shadowmare said:


> Not sure if the link will work as I'm on my phone but... Is this what people meant when they said the wanted Britain to be Great again?... https://m.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/albums/10101369198638985/


How awful, there really aren't any words. 
It's what I've been hearing, seeing and sensing, it was like when leave won it gave those who thought like that permission to shout it. I don't know what to say, I think it will only escalate, personally, it's just my feeling on it, but I think the genie is out of the bottle now, if people are willing to shout this now I don't know how you control that feeling.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> It doesn't make *me *feel ashamed to be British though because I don't associate myself with those morons, nor do they represent me or the majority of British people IMO.


You may not associate yourself with them, but unfortunately they associate themeselves with the U.K.  We will soon go from being the country that was envied the world over for being accepting, multi cultural, to be the country where your not welcome unless you are "British born" (and even that isn't enough, you have to "look" British as well now it seems based on those comments).

Haven't the uk got some small uninhabitated island that we can dump these scumbags on?


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

I'm glad some people are happy that we have independence, after gambling the future of the country on what I see as a whim.

I, for one, am left feeling insecure, worried and am battling anxiety and a resurgence of depression.

I had put my house on the market a few weeks ago, not even thinking about the referendum and how it would affect me. I live in a rough area, and its hard enough to sell my house as it is. People are saying I should be glad that house prices will go down, but I can't afford to drop my price. It's already borderline that I will be able to move after getting a 5% predicted lose on my price as it is. I bought a house to get on the house market, and I accept I bought at the wrong time. But after living here for 10 years, I thought I could finally escape the constant antisocial behaviour and high crime rate now that I've paid off some of my mortgage.

It's not as if my house is worth a lot, its one of the cheapest in the area. 60k isn't such a lot is it? But it makes any percentage drop in price unbearable.

I've saved up for the last few years to try to afford to move house and to escape the area. I feel like it was such a waste. I worry about my job in the face of a more right wing tory government, in a region that relied heavily on EU funding. 

So, sorry if I struggle to share people's happy go lucky attitude of it all working out in the end, or give it a few months/a few years and everything will be fine. It may well be. In the meanwhile, those of us that struggle with mental health issues are going to have to 'get on with it' or go under.

Z


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

ZoeM said:


> I'm glad some people are happy that we have independence, after gambling the future of the country on what I see as a whim.
> 
> I, for one, am left feeling insecure, worried and am battling anxiety and a resurgence of depression.
> 
> ...


I just have big hugs for you. If Gibraltar implodes economically then my house will be worth nil. Anyhow soon my job will be gone.
Some of members told me not to worry, not to spit dummy, not to piss in the wind...

I am so sorry that people fell for information from The Sun.
That our politicians shown most mettle in mind games and sticking to their seats than what is actually good for people.

Sorry love and just hugs.


----------



## Sh N (Dec 2, 2015)

ZoeM said:


> I'm glad some people are happy that we have independence, after gambling the future of the country on what I see as a whim.
> 
> I, for one, am left feeling insecure, worried and am battling anxiety and a resurgence of depression.
> 
> ...


Loads of big hugs, hun x


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

stuaz said:


> You may not associate yourself with them, but unfortunately they associate themeselves with the U.K.  We will soon go from being the country that was envied the world over for being accepting, multi cultural, to be the country where your not welcome unless you are "British born" (and even that isn't enough, you have to "look" British as well now it seems based on those comments).
> 
> Haven't the uk got some small uninhabitated island that we can dump these scumbags on?


I know, but just as I don't see every German as a Natzi, or Muslim as a terrorist I refuse to be labeled as racist because I'm British.

We've just voted to take back a bit of power over our destiny, we shouldn't allow a small moronic minority to ruin everything now.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

stuaz said:


> You may not associate yourself with them, but unfortunately they associate themeselves with the U.K.  We will soon go from being the country that was envied the world over for being accepting, multi cultural, to be the country where your not welcome unless you are "British born" (and even that isn't enough, you have to "look" British as well now it seems based on those comments).
> 
> Haven't the uk got some small uninhabitated island that we can dump these scumbags on?


I know, but just as I don't see every German as a Natzi, or Muslim as a terrorist I refuse to be labeled as racist because I'm British.

We've just voted to take back a bit of power over our destiny, we shouldn't allow a small moronic minority to ruin everything now.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Duplicate


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

cheekyscrip said:


> I am so sorry that people fell for information from *The Sun.*


The Sun has done so much damage to our country printing so lies over the last 30 years or so, but people are still stupid enough to believe them.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Sorry Posted twice


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

oops Sorry not sure what's going on


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Forum seems to have it's knickers in a twist!


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Osbourne has spoken :350 mln spent now trying to stop pound falling ... 

Recession.

Wonder how those who called Remain scaremongers and project Fear feel now?

Pound fell again.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Wonder what the new emergency budget would be like?


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Forum seems to have it's knickers in a twist!


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

The first blog post I have seen on the impact of education
https://teflgeek.net/2016/06/24/the-impact-of-brexit-on-elt/


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

The first blog post I have seen on the impact of education
https://teflgeek.net/2016/06/24/the-impact-of-brexit-on-elt/


----------



## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Deleted- duplicate post.


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> I know, but just as I don't see every German as a Natzi, or Muslim as a terrorist I refuse to be labeled as racist because I'm British.
> 
> We've just voted to take back a bit of power over our destiny, we shouldn't allow a small moronic minority to ruin everything now.


I totally agree. The sad fact is that this referendum seems to have made the small minority think it's ok to be openly (more so) racist and will mean that Leave voters are now being incorrectly labelled as racists when they are not.


----------



## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

If I can think of anything positive to come out of this, if you can call it that is finding out who one's true friends are.

I've been shocked by what I've heard from some I've known for many years, as if the referendum has unleashed concealed bigoted views they now feel justified in expressing.


I'm also sick and tired of being told nothing would change as regards to UK citizens with rights to move abroad as of now yet winge about citizens moving here as if by being British they are somehow superior. I find it disgusting. Besides no one yet knows what will happen.....

They are no longer friends of mine.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Forum seems to have it's knickers in a twist!


Much like the rest of the country


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> I know, but just as I don't see every German as a Natzi, or Muslim as a terrorist I refuse to be labeled as racist because I'm British.
> 
> We've just voted to take back a bit of power over our destiny, we shouldn't allow a small moronic minority to ruin everything now.


I totally agree. The sad fact is that this referendum seems to have made the small minority think it's ok to be openly (more so) racist and will mean that Leave voters are now being incorrectly labelled as racists when they are not.


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

stuaz said:


> I totally agree. The sad fact is that this referendum seems to have made the small minority think it's ok to be openly (more so) racist and will mean that Leave voters are now being incorrectly labelled as racists when they are not.


The simplest way for leave voters to avoid being labelled as racist is to be outspoken against racism.


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

stuaz said:


> I totally agree. The sad fact is that this referendum seems to have made the small minority think it's ok to be openly (more so) racist and will mean that Leave voters are now being incorrectly labelled as racists when they are not.


The simplest way for leave voters to avoid being labelled as racist is to be outspoken against racism.


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

stuaz said:


> I totally agree. The sad fact is that this referendum seems to have made the small minority think it's ok to be openly (more so) racist and will mean that Leave voters are now being incorrectly labelled as racists when they are not.


The simplest way for leave voters to avoid being labelled as racist is to be outspoken against racism.


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

stuaz said:


> I totally agree. The sad fact is that this referendum seems to have made the small minority think it's ok to be openly (more so) racist and will mean that Leave voters are now being incorrectly labelled as racists when they are not.


The simplest way for leave voters to avoid being labelled as racist is to be outspoken against racism.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Yes,  Leave or remain , everyone should speak out about racism .


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

CuddleMonster said:


> The simplest way for leave voters to avoid being labelled as racist is to be outspoken against racism.


I don't feel the need to prove that I'm not racist just because of some extremists and others that can't see that there are many reasons why people voted leave.
Yes many want immigration controls, that doesn't make a racist


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

MollySmith said:


> The first blog post I have seen on the impact of education
> https://teflgeek.net/2016/06/24/the-impact-of-brexit-on-elt/


Written very much from the point of view of someone who has left the UK for their own reasons.

Why is his way of life any more important than mine?

It's 4 days since the decision was made .....


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

CuddleMonster said:


> The simplest way for leave voters to avoid being labelled as racist is to be outspoken against racism.


Most of us are. 

What do you want us to do exactly?

What do you do about it?


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Written very much from the point of view of someone who has left the UK for their own reasons.
> 
> Why is his way of life any more important than mine?
> 
> It's 4 days since the decision was made .....


I am just the messenger 

But it will have an affect on many publishers in the country who work in ELT and in language schools of which there are many.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

MollySmith said:


> I am just the messenger
> 
> But it will have an affect on many publishers in the country who work in ELT and in language schools of which there are many.


I know 

We all have our own issues


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

duplicate post!


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

Lurcherlad said:


> Most of us are.
> 
> What do you want us to do exactly?
> 
> What do you do about it?


What you do is up to you. I am just saying that leave voters who don't want to be branded as racist could, instead of getting cross when anyone mentions racist behaviour from a minority of leave voters, just admit that it exists and agree that it is awful and not what the leave vote is about.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

stuaz said:


> I totally agree. The sad fact is that this referendum seems to have made the small minority think it's ok to be openly (more so) racist


I know what you mean but I am more optimistic about this. Very few people are really racist imo but a great many are stupid, disenfranchised and easily led.

I think there's a decent chance that the brainless who jumped on the far right nationalist bandwagon will fizzle out now that they think they got what they were told to think they wanted.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

CuddleMonster said:


> What you do is up to you. I am just saying that leave voters who don't want to be branded as racist could, instead of getting cross when anyone mentions racist behaviour from a minority of leave voters, just admit that it exists and agree that it is awful and not what the leave vote is about.


For heavens sake , No one is saying that racism doesn't exist , people have already said this .
The Remain brigade on media seem to think that every person who voted Remain isn't racist and that is nonsense.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

CuddleMonster said:


> What you do is up to you. I am just saying that leave voters who don't want to be branded as racist could, instead of getting cross when anyone mentions racist behaviour from a minority of leave voters, just admit that it exists and agree that it is awful and not what the leave vote is about.


I think everybody on here and everyone I know has.


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

kimthecat said:


> For heavens sake , No one is saying that racism doesn't exist , people have already said this .
> The Remain brigade on media seem to think that every person who voted Remain isn't racist and that is nonsense.


I've never said that - I was asked what I would do if someone accused me of racist behaviour because of the way I voted.


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

Oh, and by the way, I know several people who just keep denying that racist incidents have happened and claiming they are lies put about to make leave voters look bad...so no, not everyone will condemn these acts.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I dont think PF member are denying that racist incidents have happened. I'm sure in real life they do .


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm swapping allegiance to my Italian roots anyway cos they are through to the next round in the Euros and England are losing to Iceland at the moment!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Lurcherlad Am watching it. I dont want England to lose but I admire the Iceland team .


----------



## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Wales! If I walk up the hill, on a clear day I can see Welsh hills - that's good enough surely? And they have dragons.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> @Lurcherlad Am watching it. I dont want England to lose but I admire the Iceland team .


They played with gusto. Sadly, England seem to panic and forget how to play the way they do in the Premier League every week. The pressure gets to them 

No doubt they will all get slaughtered by the media and fans.

Spain are out too, so it happens to the best of them.

Now hoping for an Italy v Belgium final


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> They played with gusto. Sadly, England seem to panic and forget how to play the way they do in the Premier League every week. *The pressure gets to them *
> 
> No doubt they will all get slaughtered by the media and fans.
> 
> ...


They are experienced players, they play in one of the best leagues in the world and they play against the top teams in europe why on earth would they feel pressure. They were just running round like headless chickens shame on them.

Well Done Iceland.


----------



## Guest (Jun 28, 2016)

CuddleMonster said:


> The simplest way for leave voters to avoid being labelled as racist is to be outspoken against racism.


And to publicly denounce their leaders for making racist remarks when they do. And that's on any side of the debate.

This is about Donald Trump, but the sentiment carries over IMO. 
https://maxlucado.com/decency-for-president/


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> Now hoping for an Italy v Belgium final


Come on Belgium!


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Merkle responds


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Independence day They are about to gift our sovereignty to greedy,destructive corporate America. Who will save us now? We were warned this would happen. If you thought the EU wasn't democratic just wait till they lock us into this. .


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> Independence day They are about to gift our sovereignty to greedy,destructive corporate America. Who will save us now? We were warned this would happen. If you thought the EU wasn't democratic just wait till they lock us into this. .
> 
> View attachment 275996


Shows how much you can trust them, one soon betrayed his mate and he now wants us to trust him.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Happy Paws said:


> Shows how much you can trust them, one soon betrayed his mate and he now wants us to trust him.


You can never trust them because they are Selfserving Selfservatives - they can't even trust each other!


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Oh boy the next few months are going to be fun one way or the another


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I don't think a TTIP deal would be done that quickly , we've not left yet .
I guess this depends which Government is in charge. At the time it was mooted , Tory and Labour were for it but labour wanted the NHS to be exempted .

AS far as I can tell , The EU were all for it until there were wide spread unrest . if that is correct, perhaps we shouldn't trust elected MPs to choose for us as has been suggested .


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

The UK has far stronger links with Aus, NZ and the USA than with France/Germany/Poland, etc.... lets go with our traditional partners


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> The UK has far stronger links with Aus, NZ and the USA than with France/Germany/Poland, etc.... lets go with our traditional partners


All the TTIP..way..

Nah, no trouble in Europe will ever affect you....


----------



## Guest (Jul 2, 2016)

Do some people really believe that by leaving the EU, Britain will be able to live without Europe? I mean look at the geography, Europe vs US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand... Are we living on the same planet or did some fly off to a never-never-land?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I'm sure we will be doing trade with Europe, they need our business too.

This is from 2011
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/feb/24/uk-trade-exports-imports

Its a small world really .


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

MrsZee said:


> Do some people really believe that by leaving the EU, Britain will be able to live without Europe? I mean look at the geography, Europe vs US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand... Are we living on the same planet or did some fly off to a never-never-land?


No...by the look of it they are somewhere in Oceania....


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

What wouldn't I give to be there now.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

cheekyscrip said:


> No...by the look of it they are somewhere in Oceania....


.........In little place just off to the right of Washington known as Airstrip Disney One, all rushing for the last Easy Jet flight to somewhere else.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

MrsZee said:


> Do some people really believe that by leaving the EU, Britain will be able to live without Europe? I mean look at the geography, Europe vs US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand... Are we living on the same planet or did some fly off to a never-never-land?


or.... do we think the EU can live without the UK? we are a nett importer of goods (£150M out/£250M in) so it might be that they still want to know us

the EU is only 16% of total world trade and the US is already the biggest market for UK built cars

As for geography, my last car was built in South Korea, it still got here


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

The world is watching but knows the UK has a remarkable record of getting on with the job and it will


----------



## Guest (Jul 3, 2016)

Colliebarmy said:


> or.... do we think the EU can live without the UK? we are a nett importer of goods (£150M out/£250M in) so it might be that they still want to know us
> 
> the EU is only 16% of total world trade and the US is already the biggest market for UK built cars
> 
> As for geography, my last car was built in South Korea, it still got here


About half of the UK trade is with EU, so I´d that EU is a very important trade partner. .https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/EU_and_Non-EU_Data.aspx

Also US/ Asian used Britain to access EU, as London has been a lucrative financial center. Leaving EU will not make it easier for UK to do business with anyone, unless you are willing to compromise lots of regulations or morals restricting international trade. Outside EU UK has much less chance to influence the regulations, which it still would need to obey, if they want to do business with EU. Naturally all want to do business with Britain too, the question is in what terms you can do it, isn´t it?

Besides, UK built cars are actually owned by overseas companies, (e.g. Germany, China, Kuwait, US, India, Malaysia). It's like saying a Mercedes is a Finnish car, because we build one of the models here in Finland.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I could see how much Japanese would like their cars made in UK for EU to be sold in New Zealand ..
The UK/ Australia common air space...

On another note: Poland and Hungary put pressure on Merkel to negotiate with Britain.
Neither Poland or Hungary wish for EU superstate ..surprise! They actually like being Polish or Hungarian...
It seems Junkers might be on his way out ..
First time something GOOD might be coming out of this horrid mess...


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

MrsZee said:


> About half of the UK trade is with EU, so I´d that EU is a very important trade partner. .https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/EU_and_Non-EU_Data.aspx.


BUT....we export £150,000,000 worth a year and IMPORT £250,000,000 from the EU

so who needs who the most/

plus how many of the EU member states population did the EU expect to export to the UK but wont be able to?


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> BUT....we export £150,000,000 worth a year and IMPORT £250,000,000 from the EU
> 
> so who needs who the most/
> 
> plus how many of the EU member states population did the EU expect to export to the UK but wont be able to?


This is why if Britain closes the door the window will be left open...
C' Mon total Brexit will bring down both EU and Britain...so surely if Junkers has to go...will go..
Hope Merkel and May will find sort of Brexit Lite...
I am also sure that many Brexiters already realise they have been had...no 350 millions and you cannot deport all foreigners and Mudbloods tomorrow...


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Xenophobia prevails, yay let's all celebrate. 
Never felt so ashamed to be British as i have this last week.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

porps said:


> Xenophobia prevails, yay let's all celebrate.
> Never felt so ashamed to be British as i have this last week.


Share your sentiment.
Feel like one half of me should beat the other.
Had to stop children from watching ITV!!!
Little one was nearly in tears hearing all those horrid things said.


----------



## FeelTheBern (Jan 13, 2016)

noushka05 said:


> Independence day They are about to gift our sovereignty to greedy,destructive corporate America. Who will save us now? We were warned this would happen. If you thought the EU wasn't democratic just wait till they lock us into this. .
> 
> View attachment 275996


"Greedy, destructive corporate America" could have been saved by Bernie.
Now it's down to either Trump or Clinton. Oh dear...


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

FeelTheBern said:


> "Greedy, destructive corporate America" could have been saved by Bernie.
> Now it's down to either Trump or Clinton. Oh dear...


Absolutely. I fear Bernie was the only hope not only for America, but for the entire world. What could have been, hey?


----------



## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> Then you really don't know the British !
> 
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=drunk+...=-1&sk=&cvid=2A7A77F6785E4D83A5817E2A69648F73
> 
> http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/04/brits200704


I'm British, never been drunk, ever. You can have drunks in any nationality, nothing to do with being British.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Every nation had drunks, even Farages , even football fans ...
True enough
Yet...you are on Costa del Sol and bunch of drunks have fight in kiddies pool you might safely bet they would be.....

But in no way they represent the whole of Britain.
Very much like the guests of Jeremy Kyle show.


Sadly ...too many.


Surely other nations have similar quota of uneducated , low IQ folks?
But somehow they do not actually stand out?


----------



## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

cheekyscrip said:


> Every nation had drunks, even Farages , even football fans ...
> True enough
> Yet...you are on Costa del Sol and bunch of drunks have fight in kiddies pool you might safely bet they would be.....
> 
> ...


Is the American term "trailer trash"?


----------



## FeelTheBern (Jan 13, 2016)

Catharinem said:


> Is the American term "trailer trash"?


Trailer trash are akin to ********, hillbillies etc. They typically are light-skinned and live in southern states, reside in trailers, (static caravans if you are British) have frequent barbecues, wield guns, and drive pickup trucks daubed with confederate flags. As you can infer from this, they are often not the most intelligent people on Earth.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

FeelTheBern said:


> Trailer trash are akin to ********, hillbillies etc. They typically are light-skinned and live in southern states, reside in trailers, (static caravans if you are British) have frequent barbecues, wield guns, and drive pickup trucks daubed with confederate flags. As you can infer from this*, they are often not the most intelligent people on Earth*.


That's cos they're interbred. A bit like royalty except they don't hide their embarrassments.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

cheekyscrip said:


> Every nation had drunks, even Farages , even football fans ...
> True enough
> Yet...you are on Costa del Sol and bunch of drunks have fight in kiddies pool you might safely bet they would be.....
> But in no way they represent the whole of Britain.
> ...


You must be glad not to be English!


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

The level of derogatory abuse aimed to those who voted OUT is amazing, most of the (sore) losing side would scream how non-PC and anti-rights such comments are if aimed at them....if theres shame to be had its at the outpouring of bile, spite and false accusation from the liberal remainers....

you lost, get over it


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> The level of derogatory abuse aimed to those who voted OUT is amazing, most of the (sore) losing side would scream how non-PC and anti-rights such comments are if aimed at them....if theres shame to be had its at the outpouring of bile, spite and false accusation from the liberal remainers....
> 
> you lost, get over it


Worse than racists most of them.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Lovely to see the out pouring of love for their fellow wo/men from the Remainists .


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

Can we stop pretending that one side has behaved perfectly and one has behaved appallingly? There has been a lot of unpleasant behaviour from BOTH sides.

I have friends on both sides. We have managed to respect each other's views and continue to be friends. It really isn't that hard. If people are abusive because of the way you voted, ignore them - you're better off without that kind of friendship anyway.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I just love the love" Voted Remain go to Spain"....
Erm? London, Manchester ...Scotland...half of population really?

By the way I am.very critical of Merkel and would be most happy to see Junckers go. 
Many other EU countries oppose closer political union with EU and are now very sorry Britain quitted.

Chilcot report is enough to explain why it is better to be cautious in following USA ...

If those who voted Leave realised by now that many promises were rubbish and who made them vanished...

Should not blame anyone who points the obvious.

Sadly recession will hit all poorer people who had no chance to speculate on currencies and reinvest....regardless how they voted.

As a result rich would be richer and poor poorer.


----------



## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Indeed, I read on the BBC red button the far right leader of an Austrian party, don't recall his name or the name of the party, has now abandoned or is considering abandoning plans for an EU referendum should they gain power.
Perhaps even they realise they are better off in the EU after all.

EDIT- Link to this News item now I'm on the laptop. Don't know how to do this on the phone.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36747304


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

That's good cos then we wont be blamed for the break up of the EU .


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

cheekyscrip said:


> I just love the love" Voted Remain go to Spain"....
> Erm? London, Manchester ...Scotland...half of population really?
> 
> By the way I am.very critical of Merkel and would be most happy to see Junckers go.
> ...


If 96% say go to Spain id say they have the democratic right on their side and need to talk with Spain about a Hong Kong style handover


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36753697


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

cheekyscrip said:


> If those who voted Leave realised by now that many promises were rubbish and who made them vanished...


Shall we look back at the "Remainers" forecast of doom, war, housing market crash, instant poverty, rocketing interest rates and Osbournes warning of austerity budgets......hes changed his tune hasnt he


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> If 96% say go to Spain id say they have the democratic right on their side and need to talk with Spain about a Hong Kong style handover


We had referendum in 2002 and 99.8 voted to stay British.
We want to be British in EU. Like Scotland or London.
Get it.
Not Spanish. Not Chinese.
If Gibraltar is given to Spain the British from the Rock would go back to UK.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

People from Remain must be sick and tired of wild accusations that they are nit British enough or not patriotic. 
What good to Britain is to have self made reccesion?
How that is patriotic?

How lies about money for NHS or farmers are sign of sure love for your country not just love for PM seat?


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Colliebarmy said:


> Shall we look back at the "Remainers" forecast of doom, war, housing market crash, instant poverty, rocketing interest rates and Osbournes warning of austerity budgets......hes changed his tune hasnt he


Maybe they'll be more truth in this once Article 50 is implemented. Besides didn't interest rates enter into double figures in the early 1990s? Wouldn't be the first time this occurred under a Tory government...

The budget will come as soon as the next unelected PM is in place probably.

Perhaps it is an exaggeration then negative campaigning works for many as we saw in the last General Election, the "horror" of a Labour and SNP coalition. Might have been a nightmare to you but for me I would have welcomed it!

In addition, have Turkey now joined the EU and have their entire population cueing up to enter Britain? This was some of the scaremongering crap from the Leave campaign too.


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## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Colliebarmy said:


> Shall we look back at the "Remainers" forecast of doom, war, housing market crash, instant poverty, rocketing interest rates and Osbournes warning of austerity budgets......hes changed his tune hasnt he


Look back all of 2 weeks, you mean?

The economic effects will play out over a period of months and years as the UK negotiates its position wrt the EU and eventually 'leaves', whatever that means. The initial effects have been completely in keeping with what was expected.

The only one of your comments which warrants scrutiny after such a short period is Osborne's decision to abandon the 2020 surplus rather than impose emergency measures to try to keep it as much on track as it was (which wasn't much). I think Cameron's resignation was the determining factor in that, since Osborne will be Chancellor only until September and it would have been inappropriate for him to introduce a far-reaching budget. Hopefully the new Chancellor will not resurrect the idea, but I make no predictions.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

KittenKong said:


> In addition, have Turkey now joined the EU and have their entire population cueing up to enter Britain? This was some of the scaremongering crap from the Leave campaign!


That is on the cards with the option of free travel way before Turkey gets full membership...thats Turkey where airports have bombs going off and machine gun killers on the beach, Turkey that is an islamic state with a walk in border from Syria...


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

https://next.ft.com/content/09eb15d4-e545-11e5-bc31-138df2ae9ee6


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

“Turkish people deserve to travel within the EU without a visa, not only because we are helping out the refugee crisis but because we are a member of the customs union since the 1990s,” said Egemen Bagis a former EU affairs minister. “It is unacceptable that when our goods can travel freely within the EU, the owners and producers and consumers of the same goods cannot.”

A host of conditions will be attached to the travel perk, giving some leverage to the EU to push Turkey to hold up its own end of the bargain in dismantling the smuggling networks that have helped transport hundreds of thousands of people to Greek islands over the past year.


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Colliebarmy said:


> That is on the cards with the option of free travel way before Turkey gets full membership...thats Turkey where airports have bombs going off and machine gun killers on the beach, Turkey that is an islamic state with a walk in border from Syria...


If there's any truth in this is it right to automatically assume everyone from these countries is a potential terrorist? Past experience revealed the majority are home born radicalised people.

To suggest that is like saying all Leave voters are racist bigots!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> Shall we look back at the "Remainers" forecast of doom, war, housing market crash, instant poverty, rocketing interest rates and Osbournes warning of austerity budgets......hes changed his tune hasnt he


You mean these markets? The ones that the Bank of England are juggling at the moment?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/09/gloom-gathers-over-the-uk-economy?CMP=twt_gu


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

The changes all the time , I'm sure it said on the news the pound had risen and shares were up either yesterday or this morning.
Shoppers are gloomy and one woman from Manchester said it was to do with the North/south divide ! I'm sure shoppers will spend more when the sales start . As I had said before , this party infighting and resignations adds to it all.

ETA The BBC red button has a stocks and shares section with the latest info.
At the moment the stack and share are mostly up and the pound is mixed bag.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> The level of derogatory abuse aimed to those who voted OUT is amazing, most of the (sore) losing side would scream how non-PC and anti-rights such comments are if aimed at them....if theres shame to be had its at the outpouring of bile, spite and false accusation from the liberal remainers....
> 
> you lost, get over it


We all lost, just some of you dont realise it yet.

as for "just get over it" rubbish i keep hearing you deluded leave voters spouting...


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> The changes all the time , I'm sure it said on the news the pound had risen and shares were up either yesterday or this morning.
> Shoppers are gloomy and one woman from Manchester said it was to do with the North/south divide ! I'm sure shoppers will spend more when the sales start . As I had said before , this party infighting and resignations adds to it all.
> 
> ETA The BBC red button has a stocks and shares section with the latest info.
> At the moment the stack and share are mostly up and the pound is mixed bag.


Fwiw, both the DJIA and the S&P500 last night closed within a whisker of their all time high (admittedly on the back of US payrolls). FTSE250 continues its run of strength too. So the shareholders have greater confidence in these companies than the CEO's who were whining and bleating about the consequences of brexit. I'm hoping the FTSE250 will drop back again soon but the news all looks too good at the moment. Sajid Javid is in India conducting trade talks at this very moment; markets will like May's premiership etc, etc. Ultimately it doesn't matter where the markets settle though; there's money to be made from the short term volatility as always but long-terms the economic consequences of our break from Europe are really quite trivial.

Oh, and if shoppers in Manchester are gloomy it's because of the weather.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Satori said:


> Fwiw, both the DJIA and the S&P500 last night closed within a whisker of their all time high (admittedly on the back of US payrolls). FTSE250 continues its run of strength too. So the shareholders have greater confidence in these companies than the CEO's who were whining and bleating about the consequences of brexit. I'm hoping the FTSE250 will drop back again soon but the news all looks too good at the moment. Sajid Javid is in India conducting trade talks at this very moment; markets will like May's premiership etc, etc. Ultimately it doesn't matter where the markets settle though; there's money to be made from the short term volatility as always but long-terms the economic consequences of our break from Europe are really quite trivial.
> 
> Oh, and if shoppers in Manchester are gloomy it's because of the weather.


As you know nothing much happened yet..except pound falling, the rates and surplus.
Still old prices.

But wait it is triggered and completed.
Two years from now?
When it actually happens if it does.

At the moment most companies etc.sit and wait how it develops..

Not many jumping yet...but many fidgeting already...
No one died for no one pulled the trigger. Yet.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

cheekyscrip said:


> As you know nothing much happened yet..except pound falling, the rates and surplus.
> Still old prices.
> 
> But wait it is triggered and completed.
> ...


All sounds like a world of opportunity to me.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

porps said:


> We all lost, just some of you dont realise it yet.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

porps said:


> We all lost, just some of you dont realise it yet.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Porps, wont YOU look silly when the UK is doing better next year than the last 10 EU years and the EU has withered and died

I hope you will come back and take your medicine, ridicule and abuse like a man


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Gold and Ftse100


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

The latest: Andrea Leadsom promises to bring back fox hunting.
To improve animal welfare...


That after she threw me in TM face her childlessness...


Wonder what would she do with NHS?...

Such nice woman...nothing better for animal welfare than ripping apart some...


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> Gold and Ftse100


Yes...Gold is doing so well...
Hope you are paid in gold and your saving are solid...

Yes..100 is deffo picking up...wonder how 250 and 500 are.
International consortia will not be shaken easily.
Only small businesses are under threat directly...


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> The latest: Andrea Leadsom promises to bring back fox hunting.
> To improve animal welfare...
> 
> That after she threw me in TM face her childlessness...
> ...


That doesn't surprise me, the right wing press are certainly getting their own back on Blair for implementing the Hunting with dogs act.

Her objection to gay marriage is also a great concern, can we expect Clause 28 to be re-introduced? Mothers criticised for working thus not being stay at home mums and having to live on what husband gives her (try that on a zero hours' contract!)?, criticism of unmarried parents single parents and same sex parents? Turn the clock back 40+ years...

Welcome back to Tory Britain!


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Deleted, duplicate post.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

This is more to do with The Next PM rather than " Independence Day "


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Yes you're right, sorry!


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

cheekyscrip said:


> Yes...Gold is doing so well...
> Hope you are paid in gold and your saving are solid...
> 
> Yes..100 is deffo picking up...wonder how 250 and 500 are.
> ...


Doesn't matter how the indices move so long as you are on the right side of the trade.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Happy Independence Day, my 4r53!
The country has been divided. It is no longer United (not that it ever has been) and it certainly isn't Great! 

No on knows what the future might hold and yet there are so many cocksure attitudes being bandied around. 

Those who wished for an exit, voted and were successful in their aims are as naked men being given a medal.

They've nowhere pin the phuqin' thing.:Hilarious


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

T


Satori said:


> Doesn't matter how the indices move so long as you are on the right side of the trade.


This is the beauty of it.
Only few percent of the people trade.
The rest are traded.

Do I sound like a commie?

Funniest thing is the Labour let it happen, Unions let it happen....because it was the In- Tory fight...right?

I better befriend few IFAs from Hong Kong....


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

cheekyscrip said:


> T
> This is the beauty of it.
> Only few percent of the people trade.
> The rest are traded.
> ...


If you can't beat 'em.......


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Satori said:


> If you can't beat 'em.......


You have a point there...
I do not feel sorry for those who followed The Sun, knowing the rag it is, but do feel sorry for hard working folk who came to UK legally, paid their due and now are the new Jews...

Feel sorry for those who were aware of the lies and false promises but were ridiculed.

So Leadsom is telling you that things will get better.....in 10 years!!! Obviously if the plan, that isn't , works....

Gibraltar. We are doomed. 
And the foxes....


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Zaros said:


> Happy Independence Day, my 4r53!
> Those who wished for an exit, voted and were successful in their aims are as naked men being given a medal.
> 
> They've nowhere pin the phuqin' thing.:Hilarious


They'll have to pin it on the big girls blouse the Leavists are wearing . 

I don't mind being naked, pass the sun tan lotion !


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> Gold and Ftse100


FTSE 100 should not really be used a measurement of how well the country is doing. It's mainly international country which are much more likely to weather difficulties.

As for gold... Well that's historically a safe haven in times of troubles.

It's only in Years to come that we will really know the outcome and effect of the U.k leaving.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

kimthecat said:


> They'll have to pin it on the big girls blouse the Leavists are wearing .
> 
> I don't mind being naked, pass the sun tan lotion !


I'm afraid no one can see what tomorrow brings until it arrives. Nothing is promised to us apart from death.

I'm just deeply disappointed that the divisions between the people have been forcibly widened by the few who don't give a toss either side of that rift.
But divisions work perfectly for the government. They don't want the people to unite because they know a united people would be a force they could no longer reckon with.

There's an old African proverb that says; If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.


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## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Colliebarmy said:


> Gold and Ftse100


You think the rising price of gold is a positive post-Brexit thing? You don't think it's a very obvious indicator of nervousness in the financial markets?

As for the FTSE you might research its international make-up and refer to the reduced value of the £.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Zaros "Nothing is promised to us apart from death."

and taxes! They're our only certainty .

I understand how strongly you feel and I'm sorry if you think I'm being being facetious.
We've had a lot of other threads about this where we have been able to express our view, and I think if people on this forum want to celebrate in this thread then perhaps let them because whatever you say isn't going to change anything except cause more divide here.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

kimthecat said:


> @Zaros "Nothing is promised to us apart from death."
> 
> and taxes! They're our only certainty .
> 
> ...


Take it away Kimthecat.

But remember this,

_Our lives are made up of the delusions we allow ourselves. _Woody Allen.:Singing


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Zaros They must often change who would be constant in happiness or wisdom. Confucius.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Must compare the Brexit FTSE and the FTSE when Gordon Brown plunged us into an abyss


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> @Zaros They must often change who would be constant in happiness or wisdom. Confucius.


Man who go to bed with sexual problem on mind wake up with solution in hand. (Attributed to Confucius).


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

kimthecat said:


> @Zaros They must often change who would be constant in happiness or wisdom. Confucius.


Very nice.

_ Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day and I'm going to be happy in it. _Groucho Mark.:Cigar


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Zaros . Nice one.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> Must compare the Brexit FTSE and the FTSE when *Gordon Brown plunged us into an abyss*


You mean like Norman Lamont did on16 September 1992


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Must compare the Brexit FTSE and the FTSE when Gordon Brown plunged us into an abyss


One man's abyss is another man's buying opportunity.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Happy Paws said:


> You mean like Norman Lamont did on16 September 1992


Lamont was propping up the pound against other currencies, the folly of selling £GBP to speculators

Brown was keeping banking buddies in a job after they sold risky mortgages

Brown also sold gold reserves just as the price of gold bottomed out

European Exchange Rate Mechanism, another European idea mainly for the benefit of the Bundesbank

The United Kingdom entered the ERM in October 1990, but was forced to exit the programme within two years after the pound sterling came under major pressure from currency speculators, including George Soros. The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992 was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday". There has been some revision of attitude towards this event given the UK's strong economic performance after 1992, with some commentators dubbing it "White Wednesday".[4]


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Satori said:


> One man's abyss is another man's buying opportunity.


Only if you have the spare assets available to be able to buy something. The majority of people are glad to have enough to live on, and if possible a little to put by for a rainy day.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> *Lamont was propping up the pound against other currencies, the folly of selling £GBP to speculators*
> 
> *Brown was keeping banking buddies in a job after they sold risky mortgages
> 
> Brown also sold gold reserves just as the price of gold bottomed out*


That's why when we was on holiday the pound was worthless you couldn't use it all, it was just toy money.

That's just rubbish


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> Only if you have the spare assets available to be able to buy something. The majority of people are glad to have enough to live on, and if possible a little to put by for a rainy day.


Well I am glad they are glad.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Lamont was propping up the pound against other currencies, the folly of selling £GBP to speculators
> 
> Brown was keeping banking buddies in a job after they sold risky mortgages
> 
> ...


That's about the size of it. Well apart from the banking buddies bit. That actually is rubbish.


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