# Outdoor cattery ...



## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Am needing an additional cattery, as am basically running out of space if anymore puss cats come along ... I really need to put my four girls into one pen then that will give me two spare pens one for isolation and one spare

I really like the look of this one ... Would look lovely in the garden too

KENNEL AND RUN DOG AND CAT CHALET THE KENSINTON NEW FOR 2013 | eBay

For those of you who keep your breeding cats outside ... Where did you purchase your cattery and what style did you go for


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Would never keep my girls outside, but my boy has a house very similar to that one in the link, our weather doesn't require insulation or heating though.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

we got a dog one and converted it,flaps and ledges etc


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I don't like mine outdoors either and they just scream when I put them out there for 10mins in the summer :crying: 

But I bought a 8ft x 4ft shed then had a 8ft x 4 ft panel run made on ebay put onto it, then added my own lights etc worked out a hell of a lot cheaper than any run, and double-triple the amunt of space you normally see for one that is 2-4 times the price we spent!

put in a crate for beds and on top a big carpet to put bowls on and store things, and extra jumping space, beds blankets, then 2 giant cat trees, then in the run cat trees and toys hanging. All been taken down now!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

See mine love being outside ... Watching the world go, they live in complete luxury they want for nothing and with a hubby that leaves doors open its alot safer ... I don't want my girls shacking up with the local Tom 

They all take it in turns to come in and I also have to think about Millie after all it was her home before my breeding cats arrive she is not the most social of cats and will only love upto my boy 

So for peace , harmony and safety and my own sanity they live outside , in heated well built and insulated pens with runs


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> See mine love being outside ... Watching the world go, they live in complete luxury they want for nothing and with a hubby that leaves doors open its alot safer ... I don't want my girls shacking up with the local Tom
> 
> They all take it in turns to come in and I also have to think about Millie after all it was her home before my breeding cats arrive she is not the most social of cats and will only love upto my boy
> 
> So for peace , harmony and safety and my own sanity they live outside , in heated well built and insulated pens with runs


Lots of breeders have catterys ,i wonder for those that dont have catterys and own more than one stud manage?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> I don't like mine outdoors either and they just scream when I put them out there for 10mins in the summer :crying:


Pampered girls  Mine are all inside as they are pets first.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I couldn't manage without it ... Christ saff and ruby would drive me mental lol ... Plus I don't like the idea for DD being on his own... He loves his girls close and if they weren't I think I would have a very upset and aggressive boy


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> Pampered girls  Mine are all inside as they are pets first.


Yes so are mine ... Don't even go there


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

i think its a good price tbh.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Cosmills said:


> Yes so are mine ... Don't even go there


I'm glad you feel that way, I find it sad you say they'd drive you mental though, I adore my chosen breed so much, their personalities and temperaments, if they drove me mental I'd be looking for another breed.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Found another ... Love it .. It higher so can put loads of tree and hanging things in it and the sleeping area to better and also come with stay clean flooring ...

Dutch Barn Dog Kennels | Dog Kennels


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> I'm glad you feel that way, I find it sad you say they'd drive you mental though, I adore my chosen breed so much, their personalities and temperaments, if they drove me mental I'd be looking for another breed.


Don't get me wrong I adore my breed and I don't wish for another ... I have two girls that go hyper when they are together to the extreme that they fly about uncontrollable and protentionally hurt themselves .. So it's not a win win ...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Ill be the voice of reason here  i think its a case of different strokes for different folk.

I can say mine are in the cattery,when in kitten indoors etc and i do very much so love them to bits they make me very happy.

If i had to have all mine indoor it would not work..11 cats,thats 11 trays in a house that would be crazy.No way could i stop them escaping with 5 kids that are in and out.


i can honestly say if i bring a cat in they wait at the door to go back out.

There shouldnt be a label on breeders with catteries that they care less i can vouch its not the case.

We all do things in the way that work for us


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Found another ... Love it .. It higher so can put loads of tree and hanging things in it and the sleeping area to better and also come with stay clean flooring ...
> 
> Dutch Barn Dog Kennels | Dog Kennels


i looked atr that before but OH built one instead.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Yes what work for one dose not always work for the other 

But to say that they are not Pet First is bang out ... Like I just have them to produce kittens every year .. And don't give a toss 

You don't know the standards I hold and the love,care and attention i give to all my PETS.. Don't form a opinion that they are mistreated,cold,lonely and not loved cos this is not the case just I choose to keep them outside 

I give my all to them and the breed , and the breeders of my cats would never have entrusted me with their babies if they thought they were being kept in inappropriate conditions 

Never gonna happen .. They will have the best of everything until the day I die


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

For what its wort cosmills i know you love your kitties and you fuss over them WAY too much lol...you worry wart.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> For what its wort cosmills i know you love your kitties and you fuss over them WAY too much lol...you worry wart.


Lol ... I know it's apart of my charm lol


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Lol ... I know it's apart of my charm lol


your prefix back yet?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> your prefix back yet?


Nope ... They have lost it ... So I have had to do it all again .. Just waiting for it too come back from the club ... Super service lol


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Nope ... They have lost it ... So I have had to do it all again .. Just waiting for it too come back from the club ... Super service lol


tut tut that woman takes the pish.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I was not happy to say the least they have said they will try and get it back before Xmas .... Nice if it happens


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> I was not happy to say the least they have said they will try and get it back before Xmas .... Nice if it happens


They should think about how long it takes to get a prefix to the stage it is now and see why this is ..not good!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Cannot understand why it takes so long ... It comes when it comes 

Right best get in bed before OH and the girls take over lol 

Nighty nite xx


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

It takes so long because club secretaries are normal people too who have jobs and social lives and breeding commitments and families and all the rest of it, so don't always have the time to deal with club documents the very second they come in. It takes so long because it then has to go to the GCCF who then have to put it up on their website and give all the rest of us prefix holders a chance to have a look at it and ensure it's not too close to our own prefix which could cause mix ups and cross over in which cats people think belong to who etc. Then it has to go before the board once we've had a chance to look at them, and they only meet 3-4 times a year.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Going back to outdoor catteries... I would want a safety run so there's no chance of a cat giving me the slip.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Absolutely. Even though I know my lad isn't interested in coming out, I'm still mega careful going in, and would have my heart less in my mouth if I had a safety corridor on the front.

I'd also be looking for something which comes pre-insulated and has wipe down surfaces everywhere.

Rach, have you tried Shedcetera? They used to be Bransby Bunny who make really excellent quality runs. Mine's one of theirs. It's now 10 years old and still as good as new.

I saw a shedcetera one yesterday, 9 X6 and really, really nice. Think they were asking £950 for it.


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## Jannor (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm not a breeder but just thought I'd say both those houses look great  wish I could get one.

Mine love going out and really miss it in the winter when its dark when I get home so they can't go out as much.

I carry them to the run in their cat basket so they just jump into it and look at me when they want to go out. 

When we had the very warm nights in the summer I left 2 of them out all night as they didn't want to come in - it was cooler for them outside. Couldn't leave Ben out all night though, he has a meow like a foghorn and would worry he'd want to come in in the early hours and wake all the neighbourhood up!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Safety corridors are right good ideas i even wish i could have one on the house for when iv got girls in.Still working on the OH with this one.

My cattery didnt come insulated but what i did was save all the NI Polystyrene boxes then when i had enough the OH fitted them all into cattery,its fantastic very warm,so it cost me nothing as i would only throw these boxes out anyhow.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Absolutely. Even though I know my lad isn't interested in coming out, I'm still mega careful going in, and would have my heart less in my mouth if I had a safety corridor on the front.
> 
> I'd also be looking for something which comes pre-insulated and has wipe down surfaces everywhere.
> 
> ...


Bransby bunny went bankrupted and has had lots of bad reports of late , think he has set up bransby bunny 2 still getting bad report .... If he is the same one he was based near Lincoln

Carly can you send me a link to shedcetera as nothing is coming up


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Safety corridors are right good ideas i even wish i could have one on the house for when iv got girls in.Still working on the OH with this one.
> 
> My cattery didnt come insulated but what i did was save all the NI Polystyrene boxes then when i had enough the OH fitted them all into cattery,its fantastic very warm,so it cost me nothing as i would only throw these boxes out anyhow.


Ha ha ... We did the same , also bubble wrap and then lined iit with that silver foil stuff ... Toasty warm ... It's warmer than my house .... Think I will move in with the girl lol


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

SHEDcetra Ltd - About Us


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> SHEDcetra Ltd - About Us


Thanks OS ... Yes it's the same person .... Expensive ..


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cosmills said:


> See mine love being outside ... Watching the world go, they live in complete luxury they want for nothing and with a hubby that leaves doors open its alot safer ... I don't want my girls shacking up with the local Tom
> 
> They all take it in turns to come in and I also have to think about Millie after all it was her home before my breeding cats arrive she is not the most social of cats and will only love upto my boy
> 
> So for peace , harmony and safety and my own sanity they live outside , in heated well built and insulated pens with runs


Just wanted to say I have my doors and windows open but I have got netting on them and they cats take no notice of it, so you can easily make that yourself from ebay, which is how I did mine! Patio doors wide open and windows!  about £3 per window! And the patio door I was quoted from a company £350!! I did it myself for £19 :laugh: looks great still get in and out, but its winter coming now so always closed lol! :laugh:



Taylorbaby said:


> I don't like mine outdoors either and they just scream when I put them out there for 10mins in the summer :crying:
> 
> But I bought a 8ft x 4ft shed then had a 8ft x 4 ft panel run made on ebay put onto it, then added my own lights etc worked out a hell of a lot cheaper than any run, and double-triple the amunt of space you normally see for one that is 2-4 times the price we spent!
> 
> put in a crate for beds and on top a big carpet to put bowls on and store things, and extra jumping space, beds blankets, then 2 giant cat trees, then in the run cat trees and toys hanging. All been taken down now!


See how big my one was, run & house 16ft long and 4 (or 5) ft wide... loads bigger than what you are looking at and it cost me with the run less then £250....  Run


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

The cost doesn't really bother me.. I just prefer a man to come in and do the job... My OH just has not got the time, with work and our business ... I have waited 4 weeks for a bathroom floor too be put down lol ... Chances of getting a new cattery up by spring is nil as most weekends are busy until the summer now


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> The cost doesn't really bother me.. I just prefer a man to come in and do the job... My OH just has not got the time, with work and our business ... I have waited 4 weeks for a bathroom floor too be put down lol ... Chances of getting a new cattery up by spring is nil as most weekends are busy until the summer now


not enough hours in the day is there.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> not enough hours in the day is there.


Nope ... I have only just sat down dont know where this week/weekend has gone


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

BB did have bad press yes, but they seem to be up and running propperly now, and whatever else can be said of them, their sheds really are outstanding quality.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cosmills said:


> The cost doesn't really bother me.. I just prefer a man to come in and do the job... My OH just has not got the time, with work and our business ... I have waited 4 weeks for a bathroom floor too be put down lol ... Chances of getting a new cattery up by spring is nil as most weekends are busy until the summer now


Only took my partner 1-2hours to do the shed & run!! :laugh: I mean the size aswell for the cost, I would double it if I got another in the future though, still seemed too small to me!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> Only took my partner 1-2hours to do the shed & run!! :laugh: I mean the size aswell for the cost, I would double it if I got another in the future though, still seemed too small to me!


That's not the size am getting TB , they do them in different sizes , that was just a link to show what they look like


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cosmills said:


> That's not the size am getting TB , they do them in different sizes , that was just a link to show what they look like


Wow, why the face? I am only trying to help, I never said you were getting that size? You did ask about them, so I gave my reason for doing it that way, a lot more room for a better price. The biggest on the first link goes to 12ft x 6ft for £620. Mine was 16ft x 4 or 5 ft (cant rem) for £220... And also bigger than the ones that go up to a grand! Could always get them to put it up for you as well so your partner wont need to do it. Makes senses to me!?!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> Wow, why the face? I am only trying to help, I never said you were getting that size? You did ask about them, so I gave my reason for doing it that way, a lot more room for a better price. The biggest on the first link goes to 12ft x 6ft for £620. Mine was 16ft x 4 or 5 ft (cant rem) for £220... And also bigger than the ones that go up to a grand! Could always get them to put it up for you as well so your partner wont need to do it. Makes senses to me!?!


Sorry thought you was on about size on the link my mistake

I don't have 16ft to play with unfortunately .. That's why I liked the barn one as it 7ft high ... 12ft x 12ft is my max


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cosmills said:


> Sorry thought you was on about size on the link my mistake
> 
> I don't have 16ft to play with unfortunately .. That's why I liked the barn one as it 7ft high ... 12ft x 12ft is my max


Nooo lol! Just excited as we managed to do so much buy doing a shed and run! But you meansure out how long you want the run its just panels and can come in any length you want!! But on ebay is lots of cat runs! (and panels!) I am always looking on there  Will try and get some pics!! Could do a smaller shed and smaller run? Would work out really good price but more room for your money! :thumbup:


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> Nooo lol! Just excited as we managed to do so much buy doing a shed and run! But you meansure out how long you want the run its just panels and can come in any length you want!! But on ebay is lots of cat runs! (and panels!) I am always looking on there  Will try and get some pics!! Could do a smaller shed and smaller run? Would work out really good price but more room for your money! :thumbup:


Yes if you could get some pics they would be super ... The shed doesn't need to be massive maybe 6x4. It's the run space am more concerned over with having 4 puss cats in it


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## imogenmc3 (Nov 25, 2013)

hi new here.

I want to get into breeding and have a few questions if you don't mind.

I was wondering how those of you with 10+ breeding queens/studs find time for them all?

I noticed some have jobs and kids as well and I just wondered.

a good friend of mine is a breeder, but she only has 2 queens who have a litter once a year. I read this posting to her and she's astounded by how many cats are involved along with other aspects (working, kids etc).

How do you find enough time to socialise the kittens enough? My friend says she devotes most of the day and night to any kittens her girls have so they can be socialised well, to produce the most wonderful kittens. I know because I've had one myself.

I know my cat loves being around me as much as possible, she loves my company and I love hers. How do they get this if they are penned outside? Or do you go and sit in the pens with them for hours on end?

also I notice some of you rehome queens when you've done with them. How do you deal with that if they are pets first? I could never rehome a pet of mine.

I'm not sure yet if I'm gonna breed and if I do what kind of breeder I will be. I want to be the best I can obviously, so was hoping you'd help by answering my questions so I can understand better how different breeders do things.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I work full-time but I work at home, but 1 litter of kittens at a time with a break inbetween for me is quite enough. Mine picked up some sort of tummy bug - no idea where from - and I had lots of vet visits and was doing lots of syringe feeding for a few days.

The biggest problem for me is that I live on my own so was worried that my kittens wouldn't meet as many different people as I would like, but they are all fine in their new homes - happy, confident, and giving a lot of pleasure.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

imogenmc3 said:


> I was wondering how those of you with 10+ breeding queens/studs find time for them all?
> 
> I noticed some have jobs and kids as well and I just wondered.
> 
> ...


I have less than 10 breeding cats, I work full time with no kids. But I work early morning to just after lunch which leaves plenty of time for the cats and kittens.
I don't have too many litters at once and space them out.

I sit out with my stud boy, he also spends a great deal of time inside as he doesn't spray.

Rehoming queens is a necessity, in order to keep new blood lines and bring in new cats you cannot keep them all. You'd soon be over run with a high number of cats which isn't good for anyone.


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## imogenmc3 (Nov 25, 2013)

"Rehoming queens is a necessity, in order to keep new blood lines and bring in new cats you cannot keep them all. You'd soon be over run with a high number of cats which isn't good for anyone."

This is why I wont be keeping a stud myself, as that way I can bring in new bloodlines through any stud I choose. So I hopefully wont have that problem. Or am I missing some massive point her with regards to blood lines? Is choosing a suitable stud each time not enough to offer new bloodlines and improvements?

Wow your lucky to have a non spraying stud right?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Start with 2 queens, keep 2 kittens now you're up to 4 cats. Keep 2, or 4 more kittens from there and you're up to 6-8 cats. Keep kittens from those girls....


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## imogenmc3 (Nov 25, 2013)

Yeah I can see what you mean. But if I am going to breed my plan was something like this;

first breeding queen, max of 3 litters starting when she is about 1 and a half years old ideally.

She will breed for 3 years all being well, if lucky 4 (if I can get her to go longer than a year between litters. So spayed at the age of 4.5 - 6 years old.

I will keep 1 female back from her last litter and follow the same breeding plan.

By the time my first queen reaches an age where her natural life expectancy is coming to an end (I'm hoping she lives a good 20 years if lucky) I will have a maximum of 4 cats and only 1 of them will be a breeding queen.

If none of the female kittens produced offer an improvement to carry on to the next generation of my girl, then I will look for one from another reputable breeder that is closest to what I am looking for and start again. health and temperament are the most important to me, looks according to breed standard are not as important to me, but do factor in.

Would that not work?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Why breed 3 pet litters? What if there's some nice kittens in there and nothing in last?

Suppose it depends on why you are breeding.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Spotty cats is right,in order to continue with the line you are working with at some point you will need to let the older ones go.Usually they are spayed etc and rehomed into a house hold with no cats or 1 cat and they are spoiled and have lots of attention just on them as they deserve.

Also when you have a breeding girl spayed sometimes it alters the pecking order and they then get bullied by the un spayed cats so sometimes its in their best interest.

My numbers are at 11,they arnt all breeding cats,whilst that number seems high compared to others on here,all the other breeders i know personally have much higher numbers like around 20 cats.

I have young children and so dont work atm,so im at home all day,no i dont sit in the cattery all day the cats have each other for company,saying they are lonely is just putting your own emotion onto the idea,they have there own species for company and whats wrong with that.They get their interaction whilst been fed or their pens cleaned etc.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

imogenmc3 said:


> Yeah I can see what you mean. But if I am going to breed my plan was something like this;
> 
> first breeding queen, max of 3 litters starting when she is about 1 and a half years old ideally.
> 
> ...


What if you keep a kitten from your queen,have queen spayed,let the kitten once old enough have a litter but she has complication during labour then has to be spayed ..thats you line ended.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> What if you keep a kitten from your queen,have queen spayed,let the kitten once old enough have a litter but she has complication during labour then has to be spayed ..thats you line ended.


Cats and plans have a habit of disagreeing with one another. Rough plans with a backup plan works a bit better.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I had that plan too when I first started out... Well, all apart from the not breeding for the look part of it. I was going to keep girl kittens back just as you were...

Then I used a stud who threw a little girl who I fell in love with. Against my better judgement I kept her. Just as well because mum was subsequently spayed which meant that this was the only girl she'd ever produced.

Then she had a litter with a stud that I only had one chance at. Really good lines, so, well, what do you do? You have to keep, else what was the point in going out to that particular stud?

A few years down the line and my first girl is only 6, and I already have 3 breeding queens and a stud boy, and am already juggling to work out how i can add one or two more.

If you're not breeding to further the breed, why are you breeding? Moggies can churn out litters that are healthy with good temperaments. What makes you so different to a Moggie breeder if that's all you're looking for? And where will you stud? Responsible stud owners will not allow their boy to be used just to create more pets. There needs to be a purpose behind the breeding, and health and temperament are not it, as most well bred pedigrees already have this. Finding boys at open stud is difficult enough even for those breeding propperly, so there's no guarantee you'll even find a boy to go to.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

imogenmc3 said:


> I know my cat loves being around me as much as possible, she loves my company and I love hers. How do they get this if they are penned outside? Or do you go and sit in the pens with them for hours on end?
> 
> also I notice some of you rehome queens when you've done with them. How do you deal with that if they are pets first? I could never rehome a pet of mine.


Here in the north we can't keep our cats penned outside, they live indoors with us. It's also rare for a breeder to rehome their retired breeding cats and that kind of behavior is still frowned upon unless the reason for rehoming is something like not getting along with the other cats after spay/neuter.

How we manage to keep things going is "fostering". Once you have enough cats in your home, the next queens/studs go to live with someone else. For example a friend or a relative. 
We make a contract which states how many litters or what age the cat in question is supposed to have, and after that the 'foster home' gets that cat's ownership. So the breeder gets to breed from the cat, and it already has a home, no need to rehome as an adult later on. Depends of people and cats, sometimes the queen has the kittens at the breeder's home, but sometimes in the 'foster home'. All breeding related fees are paid by the breeder, other things by the 'foster home', after all they'll be getting a free/very cheap pedigree cat. 
I have this kind of arrangement, 2 of my future queens live with a friend of mine, they visit me every now and then and will be having their future litters here.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

NorthernDarkness said:


> Here in the north we can't keep our cats penned outside, they live indoors with us. It's also rare for a breeder to rehome their retired breeding cats and that kind of behavior is still frowned upon unless the reason for rehoming is something like not getting along with the other cats after spay/neuter.
> 
> How we manage to keep things going is "fostering". Once you have enough cats in your home, the next queens/studs go to live with someone else. For example a friend or a relative.
> We make a contract which states how many litters or what age the cat in question is supposed to have, and after that the 'foster home' gets that cat's ownership. So the breeder gets to breed from the cat, and it already has a home, no need to rehome as an adult later on. Depends of people and cats, sometimes the queen has the kittens at the breeder's home, but sometimes in the 'foster home'. All breeding related fees are paid by the breeder, other things by the 'foster home', after all they'll be getting a free/very cheap pedigree cat.
> I have this kind of arrangement, 2 of my future queens live with a friend of mine, they visit me every now and then and will be having their future litters here.


They do that here with dogs people have mixed view on the idea here.


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## imogenmc3 (Nov 25, 2013)

carly87 said:


> If you're not breeding to further the breed, why are you breeding? Moggies can churn out litters that are healthy with good temperaments. What makes you so different to a Moggie breeder if that's all you're looking for? And where will you stud? Responsible stud owners will not allow their boy to be used just to create more pets. There needs to be a purpose behind the breeding, and health and temperament are not it, as most well bred pedigrees already have this. Finding boys at open stud is difficult enough even for those breeding propperly, so there's no guarantee you'll even find a boy to go to.


I did mention health was an important part of breeding to me. I know with moggies you can't test properly for hereditary diseases and such. As it is with pedigrees you can't be 100% certain, but you have better odds then with a moggie.

If helping to improve the breed for me is about improving health and temperament than I'm happy with that  Looks will not be the only reason I keep back any kitten. So planning to keep one back from the last litter of each queen would work okay. Obviously things go wrong and at some point my number of cats may increase by 1 or 2. But I am a lady of leisure with no kids so I have all my waking hours to devote to them all 



NorthernDarkness said:


> Here in the north we can't keep our cats penned outside, they live indoors with us. It's also rare for a breeder to rehome their retired breeding cats and that kind of behavior is still frowned upon unless the reason for rehoming is something like not getting along with the other cats after spay/neuter.
> 
> How we manage to keep things going is "fostering". Once you have enough cats in your home, the next queens/studs go to live with someone else. For example a friend or a relative.
> We make a contract which states how many litters or what age the cat in question is supposed to have, and after that the 'foster home' gets that cat's ownership. So the breeder gets to breed from the cat, and it already has a home, no need to rehome as an adult later on. Depends of people and cats, sometimes the queen has the kittens at the breeder's home, but sometimes in the 'foster home'. All breeding related fees are paid by the breeder, other things by the 'foster home', after all they'll be getting a free/very cheap pedigree cat.
> I have this kind of arrangement, 2 of my future queens live with a friend of mine, they visit me every now and then and will be having their future litters here.


I think I actually like the way that works. if nothing else it means the breeding queens fostered out get more time devoted to them by their foster parents. Much more then they would have in a household with 10+ cats anyway 

I honestly don't think I could ever house breeding queens outdoors. I would miss the cuddles too much. My kitty loves coming to sit on me, then cuddling down and falling to sleep purring her little head off most days for hours at a time. She couldn't do that if she were kept outdoors. and temperament is/will be an important part of my breeding, so I want to encourage this and not lose it through minimal contact if they are kept outdoors. Also I love to play with my kitty, again if they are kept outdoors with minimal contact, you can't devote a few hours a day or more playing with them to keep them happy and your bond with them in tact.

This is all very helpful. I'm starting to think about things I hadn't considered before, so thank you all. it will help me with my decisions.

That was easier now I found the quote button and mastered the multiquote one as well lol!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

imogenmc3 said:


> I did mention health was an important part of breeding to me. I know with moggies you can't test properly for hereditary diseases and such. As it is with pedigrees you can't be 100% certain, but you have better odds then with a moggie.
> 
> If helping to improve the breed for me is about improving health and temperament than I'm happy with that  Looks will not be the only reason I keep back any kitten. So planning to keep one back from the last litter of each queen would work okay. Obviously things go wrong and at some point my number of cats may increase by 1 or 2. But I am a lady of leisure with no kids so I have all my waking hours to devote to them all
> 
> ...


All my breeding cats are kept outside ... Are they unhappy No , have I lost my bond with them far far from it ... I work full time and travel all over with my job .. I also work from home ... So when am home my cats take it in turns to come in and have plenty of attention and love and play.. One of my girls and my stud are in as we speak

There are many things to consider when breeding and what your think is a wonderful plan turns out to be not so great, breeding is very rarely text book


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

<snip>
If helping to improve the breed for me is about improving health and temperament than I'm happy with that Looks will not be the only reason I keep back any kitten. 
So planning to keep one back from the last litter of each queen would work okay. 
<snip>
So, does your chosen breed have a less than savoury temperament? Does it have health conditions that run rife and aren't addressed?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Sorry I cant see where this is said to quote it, but can I ask the reason for this '3 litters' and only keeping back from the last one?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Problems with keeping a kitten from her last litter include no kittens, no girls, girls not good enough, girl fails to get pregnant, girl is bad mother, and more.

Look at all the girls in each litter, as soon as one good enough comes along keep her, but don't spay the mother until the daughter is proven.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> Sorry I cant see where this is said to quote it, but can I ask the reason for this '3 litters' and only keeping back from the last one?


I didnt get the reason behind that either ... Ok can understand you don't lose the line before spay but wot if you get a top kit in the first or second and nothing in the last


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

OrientalSlave said:


> Problems with keeping a kitten from her last litter include no kittens, no girls, girls not good enough, girl fails to get pregnant, girl is bad mother, and more.
> 
> Look at all the girls in each litter, as soon as one good enough comes along keep her, but don't spay the mother until the daughter is proven.


That's what I was thinking, surely every litter should be seriously planned and all the kittens accessed, that's why breeders end up with so many... We want the best to keep! Say mum needs a C-section or all the kittens are boys? Say litter 3 is not a good litter but litter 1 was...?! And why 3? IF you get a good girl from litter 1 or 2 you may not want to breed her again? It just isn't as easy as that.

Oh and yes I have done that, finally mum produced a girl, sadly the girl was not able to become pregnant and I had neutered mum, truly gutted isn't the word, the end of my lines there! (well one generation, but I was gutted!!)


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## imogenmc3 (Nov 25, 2013)

Taylorbaby said:


> Sorry I cant see where this is said to quote it, but can I ask the reason for this '3 litters' and only keeping back from the last one?


I favoured 3 litters because I think that's more than enough for a queen to have  Obviously things don't always go to plan I know that. She might only have 1 litter for instance.

I'm not sure I got myself across clearly enough. But I wont be doing it to breed the perfect looking pedigree. I will be doing it for health and temperament. I also wont be obsessed with keeping my own lines. If my queen does not have a female kitten that is healthy and of good temperament in the last litter (which is only likely if the litter is all boys, and I know it does happen), then I will source another female kitten from a reputable breeder 

I am not totally dissing a pedigree 'look' and will do my best to help improve that part of breeding if I can. but it is not the be all and end all for me. I want to contribute to healthier pedigrees with great temperaments  maybe the offspring my ladies produce can be entered in to other peoples lines to bring newer healthier blood to their lines and boost their temperaments too. who knows, it's a nice thought 

I do not wish to offend with that comment btw. I know breeders strive to accomplish all things in their lines. But I want to really focus on health. For instance in BSH there is a rising HCM problem and maybe I can focus on and help with finding a reliable test for the numerous strains there are. That's just one example  A friend of mine had a BSH that died suddenly of HCM and after seeing how devastating this was I'd like to think I could contribute to helping find a way forward on that score.

this is all speculation atm anyway, as I still don't know for sure if I am going to breed.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

I see where you are coming from- you want your cats to be well-loved pets first. I have a similar policy ( I am 'allowed' a maximum of 5 cats at any one time and wanting to keep them for life (which for me is the responsible thing to do if they are pets first) means my breeding plans are limited. Every breeder is different, have different ideals and with different goals. 

currently, in the Netherlands, the hcm issue is being taken care off (most good or average catteries screen for this) although off course being such a sneaky and late onset disease means it cannot be fully prevented yet. 

I'm not sure what my goals are at the moment, I mean in general it's health, temperament and looks BUT there are many (or at least enough)breeders who can breed healthy kittens with good temperaments and looks so I'm not sure what I can truly add to 'improve the breed'. maybe my only real contribution is to help ensure that the gene pool of healthy kittens with good temperaments and which fit the breed standard is large enough.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I favoured 3 litters because I think that's more than enough for a queen to have


If three litters is *more* than enough then why not stick at two? I factor litter size into my decision on when to spay a girl. Along with other considerations I believe total number of kittens is relevant.


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## imogenmc3 (Nov 25, 2013)

Kitten number plays a part most definitely Havoc. and maybe the word 'more' was out of place in what I said. I do mean 3 is enough, not more than enough.  though if I can at all get any queen to go long enough between litters, maybe 2 is enough too! The 3 litters is what I personally would allow factoring in calling girls not being able to wait for the period of time I wish to wait.

Always lots of things to consider  but I would like to contribute something and help improve a breed, whilst also considering my queens wellbeing above all. If they should call over and over way too early, then I would rather spay than let her have a litter earlier than I'd personally feel comfortable with.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If they should call over and over way too early, then I would rather spay than let her have a litter earlier than I'd personally feel comfortable with


Do you mean for a first litter or subsequent litters. Breeders and breeding organisations spout the one litter a year line while some experts (Susan Little being the obvious one) believe strongly that you should 'breed or spay'. I have to say after years of watching girls lose condition through calling I'm coming round to the idea myself. I'm sure I'd feel very comfortable in the company of kitten buyers showing that at least twelve months elapsed between litters. Wouldn't mean I'd done the best thing by the cat.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

imogenmc3 said:


> I favoured 3 litters because I think that's more than enough for a queen to have  Obviously things don't always go to plan I know that. She might only have 1 litter for instance.
> 
> I'm not sure I got myself across clearly enough. But I wont be doing it to breed the perfect looking pedigree. I will be doing it for health and temperament. I also wont be obsessed with keeping my own lines. If my queen does not have a female kitten that is healthy and of good temperament in the last litter (which is only likely if the litter is all boys, and I know it does happen), then I will source another female kitten from a reputable breeder
> 
> ...


But ALL good breeders breed for health and temperament, and you have to breed to 'type' otherwise your cats wont look like the breed they are meant to.

You will never find a reliable test for HCM there are thousands of strains its just not possible. IF you aren't going to be breeding for the type/look and other breeders (good) ones breed for temperament why would they add your cats to their lines? That is assuming that other breeders don't breed for temperament, which good breeders do, and you wouldn't want to get involved with the other type of breeder anyway!

Why wouldn't you want to keep your own kittens? If you are doing it for temperament you will raise your own kittens, but buying from these other breeders you wont know... but obviously going to a good breeder that does health and temperament and type, you end up with their lines?

Sorry for picking that apart am just a little lost, is it British Shorthairs that you want to breed?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

havoc said:


> Do you mean for a first litter or subsequent litters. Breeders and breeding organisations spout the one litter a year line while some experts (Susan Little being the obvious one) believe strongly that you should 'breed or spay'. I have to say after years of watching girls lose condition through calling I'm coming round to the idea myself. I'm sure I'd feel very comfortable in the company of kitten buyers showing that at least twelve months elapsed between litters. Wouldn't mean I'd done the best thing by the cat.


Just looked her up, she says some great things about 'earlier neutering ! :laugh: And its true, Im not sure where this 1 litter every 12 months came from?


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