# Rupert's Journey to Raw Feeding



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Decided I would start a thread because I like ranting and raving and getting all excited about it but I think Babycham could do with a break :lol:

Rupert has had bits of raw on and off for a couple of months or so and so far his stomach hasn't taken offence to any of them, so I'm quite hopeful! I bought a freezer locally for £25, its 15 years old but within 10 hours of being turned on was at -23C and fingers crossed will do the job 

Waiting on a reply from The Dog Food Company about an order I've sent which (hopefully) ought to come sometime next week. Today I'm going to get some goat's milk, fruit, veg and nuts to try him on (the latter three with his raw meals when he has them and the goat's milk to try and wean him off his bedtime kibble. He gets sick at 5am without it so trying to find a substitute now).

Rupert is a 28.45kg Golden Retriever who ought to be 30-32kgs and more muscly than he is. He's a bit lack lustre and struggling stamina wise so my vet thinks a raw diet would be a really good idea to try for him.

I'm going to try and feed 60% meat, 20% tripe, 10% bone and 10% offal (with half the offal being liver, the other half kidney. Heart is classed as a meat I've been told). Hopefully he will get on OK, but there is a chance his stomach will completely reject the idea as he hasn't had a couple of bits before let alone had a raw diet full time.

As you can see, Rupert's really quite excited at the prospect of his new diet:


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Fab stuff


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Ruperts doing really well containing his-self


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## francesandjon (Jun 3, 2009)

OMG.....Ruperts 'excited' pose is EXACTLY the same as Kodas!


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Really hope this is the answer to all his problems. 

I know it's done wonders for others and will have everything crossed that it will work for him.

Goodness only knows - there but for the grace of God go I


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Oooh goody - a new raw feeder thread :001_smile:. I'm really looking forward to hearing all about Rupert's progress.

I love all your photos of Rupert, he is adorable.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Hehe thanks everyone I LOVE photos and rambling so I will post lots on here I'm sure :thumbup:

This is the stuff I got from Sainsbury to make him some veg some to fill out his meals a little. Emergency number one! Do I have to take the skin of any of the veg, like the swede?!

I normally just give him a carrot skin and all so can I just chop and blend them all as they are if I give them a rinse? I've got:

Swede
Parsnips
Cabbage
Carrots
Some kind of beans
Apples

AND I don't have a mini blender like Sleeping Lion used will our Gordon Ramsey processor die if I try and put nuts in? I tried using the grating part of it and it failed badly with a parsnip so just going to blend them all up...

But is the processor going to die if I put nuts in and do I have to take the skin off any of the above?! This could be a longggggg thread :lol:


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

I have a *Kenwood Multipro 920*, which I think has been superceded now, and it's a very sturdy one with a 1000w motor. I tried all the cutters/blades/grates etc., and *this* is the only one that did the job. I haven't tried nuts yet but would imagine they'd do OK, if not I have a grinder attachment.

Not sure which your processor is and what blades you have or what size motor - do you have any pics or links?

Definitely peel the swede. The rest should be OK just washing them.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

DirtyGertie said:


> I have a *Kenwood Multipro 920*, which I think has been superceded now, and it's a very sturdy one with a 1000w motor. I tried all the cutters/blades/grates etc., and *this* is the only one that did the job. I haven't tried nuts yet but would imagine they'd do OK, if not I have a grinder attachment.
> 
> Not sure which your processor is and what blades you have or what size motor - do you have any pics or links?
> 
> Definitely peel the swede. The rest should be OK just washing them.


Its this one:

Gordon Ramsay Cooks Food Processor: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home

Just spoke to Mum she said try bashing nuts in a bag with a rolling pin first 

Can I ask why the swede needs skinning but the rest not? I'll wash the rest and lightly scrub with a scrubbing brush...


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

I tried all those blades pictured and none of them did the job. If it has a blade like the one I linked to for mine (the knife blade) then that should work fine. The only review on Amazon said the motor burnt out but doesn't say how long it was being used for. At 700w that should be fine, just don't run it for mega lengths of time, if it starts to sound as though it's struggling give it a rest for a few minutes then start again. If you've got that blade then try the nuts. Considering they crunch bones a piece of nut shouldn't be a problem, it's just that if it's all blended then they're distributed more evenly through your mix.

The only reason I said to peel the swede is because they seem to have a tough nobbly skin which might be difficult to get any dirt out. As long as it's washed it should probably be fine - might be me being fussy .


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I might be brave enough to give that a try :lol:

Would you leave the skin on apples etc too?


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> I might be brave enough to give that a try :lol:
> 
> Would you leave the skin on apples etc too?


If it's being blended really small with the knife blade I can't see it being a problem. I'd only worry if I saw biggish pieces of skin, and that's probably because I'm not keen on apple skin. Don't forget to core the apple and remove all the pips.

Just found this little toxic list

onion
mushroom
grapes
raisins
tomato

but I'm sure I saw somewhere else that someone includes tomatoes


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

DirtyGertie said:


> If it's being blended really small with the knife blade I can't see it being a problem. I'd only worry if I saw biggish pieces of skin, and that's probably because I'm not keen on apple skin. Don't forget to core the apple and remove all the pips.
> 
> Just found this little toxic list
> 
> ...


Urgh I just bought two tins of pilchards in tomato sauce..!! I don't know whether toms are or not, didn't know mushrooms were..?

Gosh how bad is this, I forget which ones I know are toxic! This is why I'm so cautious about do I put skin etc in I'm like ARGH what can they have?!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

OK all done! I decided in the end to put it into ice cube trays. Only got two trays so when frozen I'll break them out, put more in etc and store them in cubes of three or four maybe, I don't really know what portion size I want to give him yet you see or what space I have.

Its got a few parsnips, a carrot, half a swede, couple cabbage leaves, couple apples, couple cashew, brazilian and hazelnuts. Hopefully none of them are toxic else I might cry right now :laugh:

No garlic as I'm a wuss and I thought I'd start easy


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> Urgh I just bought two tins of pilchards in tomato sauce..!! I don't know whether toms are or not, didn't know mushrooms were..?
> 
> Gosh how bad is this, I forget which ones I know are toxic! This is why I'm so cautious about do I put skin etc in I'm like ARGH what can they have?!


Don't panic about the pilchards in tomato sauce, plenty of the raw feeders on here use the tinned fish in tom sauce. I did but have since changed to olive oil when I can get it on offer. If I can't I'll buy in brine and wash it off.

If I have any doubts about whether a food is toxic to dogs, if I haven't read anything on here I just Google "are tomatoes bad for dogs" or whatever. Trouble is, you get many conflicting answers :.

P.S. Just seen your pics - looks yummy!


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## francesandjon (Jun 3, 2009)

Koda would like to know if he could come for a sleep over! Looks good!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

DirtyGertie said:


> Don't panic about the pilchards in tomato sauce, plenty of the raw feeders on here use the tinned fish in tom sauce. I did but have since changed to olive oil when I can get it on offer. If I can't I'll buy in brine and wash it off.
> 
> If I have any doubts about whether a food is toxic to dogs, if I haven't read anything on here I just Google "are tomatoes bad for dogs" or whatever. Trouble is, you get many conflicting answers :.
> 
> P.S. Just seen your pics - looks yummy!


Thanks  Got my first lot of ice cubes out the freezer! Will post a photo in the next post. Google scares me the amount of do's and don't's and its debatable 



francesandjon said:


> Koda would like to know if he could come for a sleep over! Looks good!


Is he a good eater?! Can't be doing with these dogs who wont eat what's put in front of them :tongue_smilie:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

First lot of ice cubes are out!! I'm really quite pleased :thumbup:

Going to be giving goat's milk maybe every day and I'm wondering whether I should buy some more ice cube trays and do that in cubes too...Was going to put it in a bag in a mug to get a suitable shape but I like the cubes its so convenient just to give X amount of cubes too...

I'm thinking 4 cubes veggies a day. Got my next lot in the moulds another 1 or 2 trays worth in a bowl in the fridge


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Looks fab :thumbup:
I didnt see your message about the veg until far too late.
But I agree I would have peeled the swede but nothing else. Swedes have really tough skins
:001_smile:


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

The veg cubes look great. I might have a look to see if I've got any ice cube trays. I just bung a tablespoon into a cheapo food bag and freeze but it uses so many bags that way. I give Poppy one tablespoon of veggies with her mince meal, but she is only little!


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## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

I think with tomotoes it's the stems and leaves that are bad - not the fruit itself (or that's what my reading suggests!). Mine get fish in tomato sauce and left over home-made tomato puree with no ill effects. 

Make sure you avoid macadamia nuts and walnuts as those can be very toxic to dogs (can cause seizures if they have enough of them).


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Eek so many things to be careful of  Glad nothing bad has gone in my veg mix.

I'm stuck on what to give Rupert before bed. He will have to have two meals and a before bed snack because at the minute if not given one he sicks up at 5am (just bile so because his belly is empty apparently).

My ideas are:

1) Goat's milk

2) Goat's milk and a portion of veggie cubes

3) A chicken wing

4) A carrot (worried of ODing on vit A with him having liver and a bit of carrot in his veggie mix so thinking this isn't the best idea)

I am liking number 2 best, is there any reason he shouldn't have a couple veggie cubes in goat's milk?


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

I like number two
:001_smile:


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Wow, veggie ice cubes are looking good! Green tomatoes are toxic, ripe are fine. 

For the bedtime snack I'd go with either plain goats milk (could add a raw egg a couple of times a week too) or a carrot personally.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> I like number two
> :001_smile:


Woo! 



SixStar said:


> Wow, veggie ice cubes are looking good! Green tomatoes are toxic, ripe are fine.
> 
> For the bedtime snack I'd go with either plain goats milk (could add a raw egg a couple of times a week too) or a carrot personally.


I'm only slightly concerned with the goat's milk that I might need to give him a fair bit to fill him up? I've got some veggies to use up tonight so I might do goat milk and veggies tonight and try out just goat milk tomorrow and see if he survives. The sicking up at 5am might have just been a phase or something and who knows he might not even need a bedtime snack on raw (but I'm sure he would disprove if I tried to make him go to bed without now ). Re unripe tomatoes, I guess pilchards in tom sauce are OK then?

Thanks re the veggie cubes, what sort of stuff do you put in yours and do they look much different to mine??


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I find goats milk alone is enough to stop the two of mine that get sick without a bedtime snack, but obviously all dogs are different and Rupert might need something a bit more. 

What I put in my veggie cubes varies a bit to be honest. I always use carrots, but the other stuff depends on whats on offer!  I try to aim for 2 types of fruit (apples, banana, pear, strawberries etc), 1 green vegetable (peas, broccoli or cabbage) and 1 root vegetable (swede, parsnip or turnip), along with the carrots. You've left your veggie cubes with a bit of texture, I completely liquidise mine  I also add apple cider vinegar, salmon oil and garlic to mine.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Can Rupert have plain probiotic yogurt? If so you could have veggies and yogurt or even a bit of fruit and yogurt before bed.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> I find goats milk alone is enough to stop the two of mine that get sick without a bedtime snack, but obviously all dogs are different and Rupert might need something a bit more.
> 
> What I put in my veggie cubes varies a bit to be honest. I always use carrots, but the other stuff depends on whats on offer!  I try to aim for 2 types of fruit (apples, banana, pear, strawberries etc), 1 green vegetable (peas, broccoli or cabbage) and 1 root vegetable (swede, parsnip or turnip), along with the carrots. You've left your veggie cubes with a bit of texture, I completely liquidise mine  I also add apple cider vinegar, salmon oil and garlic to mine.


Thanks I'll take note for next time! I don't know how easy it is to completely liquidise them in a processor do you just have to let it run for a while or do I need something else to do it?! If completely liquidised better?



DirtyGertie said:


> Can Rupert have plain probiotic yogurt? If so you could have veggies and yogurt or even a bit of fruit and yogurt before bed.


With his random bouts of colic lately strictly speaking he's not meant to have any dairy but I'm introducing the goat milk because my vet said that's easier for them than cow's milk? If I could get some that was goat stuff I could use that but not anything from a cow I don't think  He struggles to digest beef very well so I wonder if its the same thing..?


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> Thanks I'll take note for next time! I don't know how easy it is to completely liquidise them in a processor do you just have to let it run for a while or do I need something else to do it?! If completely liquidised better?
> 
> With his random bouts of colic lately strictly speaking he's not meant to have any dairy but I'm introducing the goat milk because my vet said that's easier for them than cow's milk? If I could get some that was goat stuff I could use that but not anything from a cow I don't think  He struggles to digest beef very well so I wonder if its the same thing..?


To properly liquidise your veggies you'd need a liquidiser attachment I think. Would your food processor have chopped them any smaller if you'd left it running a bit longer? I did read somewhere (possibly on here) that the best way is to use a juicer. You drink the juice and the dog gets the pulp. But if you haven't got a juicer there's another expense.

Ah, didn't reaise about the colic. Goats milk probiotic yogurt is available, not sure where you'd get it, we only have the Co-op .


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

*YAY
*

No sick!! Bit weird, but I remember when he was a puppy and the clocks changed, it upset his body clock quite a lot (the spring forward one). He kept waking up and toileting from that point on which was partly why I got him a crate, he started sleeping through again in it when he kept waking up without it. Its probably a bit nuts but but I can't help but think maybe his body was anticipating a change, lighter mornings or something and expecting his food sooner than he was getting it?!

Either way I'm quite impressed I thought he would be sick. I will try him with just goat's milk tonight and see how he goes, not sure quite how much to give him I might try a small amount and if any problems a bit more the night after etc.

It could have been just a phase I suppose but it is weird how it coincided with sunrise/sunset changing and around the time the clocks were changed too.



DirtyGertie said:


> To properly liquidise your veggies you'd need a liquidiser attachment I think. Would your food processor have chopped them any smaller if you'd left it running a bit longer? I did read somewhere (possibly on here) that the best way is to use a juicer. You drink the juice and the dog gets the pulp. But if you haven't got a juicer there's another expense.
> 
> Ah, didn't reaise about the colic. Goats milk probiotic yogurt is available, not sure where you'd get it, we only have the Co-op .


I'm sure I'll be able to get some we've got all the big supermarkets here (tend to use Sainsbury and Morrison most, big Tesco isn't that close etc). Will have to have a look when I'm there next week


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Woohoo! Go rupert, go rupert!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

You watch he'll sick up tonight now :

I emailed The Dog Food Company an order on Wednesday afternoon ish. Sent a text to the mobile number I rang yesterday morning to say I'd sent an order as Babycham said that's what she did.

I've not heard anything yet I'm a bit worried its been missed  I think they are in this area Tuesday and I dunno when after that so I'd really quite like a reply


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Eek so many things to be careful of  Glad nothing bad has gone in my veg mix.
> 
> I'm stuck on what to give Rupert before bed. He will have to have two meals and a before bed snack because at the minute if not given one he sicks up at 5am (just bile so because his belly is empty apparently).
> 
> ...


You never know - if all goes well, he may not need a bedtime snack


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> You never know - if all goes well, he may not need a bedtime snack


I have had that in the back of my mind but not dared say it :lol:

Who's hedging a bet he sicks up tomorrow morning now?! :


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Glad he wasn't sick 
Test again and leave an answerphone message now, I would


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Glad he wasn't sick
> Test again and leave an answerphone message now, I would


You mean on his mobile? I don't know if the landline has an answer machine.

I don't want him to get pissed off with me but I want some raw :cryin:


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> You mean on his mobile? I don't know if the landline has an answer machine.
> 
> I don't want him to get pissed off with me but I want some raw :cryin:


Dont think he seems the type to get pissed off :smile:

Leave message on the mobile x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Dont think he seems the type to get pissed off :smile:
> 
> Leave message on the mobile x


But what if he answers :lol: :huh:


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> But what if he answers :lol: :huh:


You'll be lucky 

Just say have you got my order? :smile:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> You'll be lucky
> 
> Just say have you got my order? :smile:


I left a really garbled message :lol:

Hopefully it was understandable


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## karmidale (May 5, 2011)

I hope Rupert is still doing well on the BARF - that is what we feed too now, having recently been converted! I order mine in bulk and am very impressed with the change in their coats in just 5 weeks. I had a tour of said factory and it was cleaner than any hotel kitchen I have ever been in!


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> I have had that in the back of my mind but not dared say it :lol:
> 
> Who's hedging a bet he sicks up tomorrow morning now?! :


Hey you, what happened to positive thinking:rolleyes


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

karmidale said:


> I hope Rupert is still doing well on the BARF - that is what we feed too now, having recently been converted! I order mine in bulk and am very impressed with the change in their coats in just 5 weeks. I had a tour of said factory and it was cleaner than any hotel kitchen I have ever been in!


Ooh that sounds good! We've only done bits of raw on and off so far I'm hoping I will see an improvement in his stamina. He's really struggled to go for his usual length walks and isn't as fizzy as he used to be, that got put down to maturing but my vet things maybe the protein in commercial food just doesn't sit right with him and the extra in raw may help.

Fingers crossed, glad yours are getting on so well! 



Mum2Heidi said:


> Hey you, what happened to positive thinking:rolleyes


Is that sarcasm?! I've been know as a pessimist (and cynic  since I was 3 years old :lol:

Got my last lot of goats milk in ice cube trays freezing. Put them in bags of four for now not sure if Milo will be having any or how many cubes Rupert might need at bed time. I'm thinking four might be a good number...


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Looking for a bit of help and advice if anyone is up for it! Bit tired of hanging about for the company to get back to me re an order so I went to Tesco and got three chickens for a tenner and will go to Morrisons to get some liver in a minute. Thought whilst I'm waiting for an order I may as well get cracking and make sure he is 100% fine on chicken and liver (he's had lots of chicken and a bit of liver, but they're the easiest bits I can get to trial).

Anyway! I know I can feed a whole chicken carcass, but I want to make sure I can 100% feed every bit of it! This is a photo of the one I cut the meat off, I know my cutting skills are poor but I thought he might like it more with some meat left on anyway..?

So do I have to try and get anything off the carcass like any remaining offal or do I just give him the whole thing? Also, the carcasses weigh 500-600g and he gets that in a whole day, what would I do to give him it should I just give him that in a morning and just give him a tiny bit of dinner or vice versa?

Here is one of the carcasses:









And here's Rupert's dinner for the next 4 days ish (three chickens):


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Oh my effing gee!! Guess who I've just had an email from :lol:

Well, its official. Tempt fate and there you go! Looks like I have got a dog food company order coming Tuesday as well as my three chickens now :blushing:

Wouldn't have happened if I hadn't spent a tenner on chickens though would it


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Oh my effing gee!! Guess who I've just had an email from :lol:
> 
> Well, its official. Tempt fate and there you go! Looks like I have got a dog food company order coming Tuesday as well as my three chickens now :blushing:
> 
> Wouldn't have happened if I hadn't spent a tenner on chickens though would it


Things always seem to happen that way. Still better paying a tenner and getting 3 chickens than a tenner for express delivery 

Sorry my "positive thinking" quip came across as sarcasm, meant to put a couple of smiley faces on the end. Obviously should have been somewhere else and not dabbling with PF as usual Twas meant as fun and to spurr you on a bit


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Things always seem to happen that way. Still better paying a tenner and getting 3 chickens than a tenner for express delivery
> 
> Sorry my "positive thinking" quip came across as sarcasm, meant to put a couple of smiley faces on the end. Obviously should have been somewhere else and not dabbling with PF as usual Twas meant as fun and to spurr you on a bit


Don't apologise its just everyone in real life has labelled me as a pessimist since I was tiny 

Sod's law though isn't it! Told me he can't get kidney so I just got a couple packets from Morrisons, only two though due to my severe shortage of space


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Looking for a bit of help and advice if anyone is up for it! Bit tired of hanging about for the company to get back to me re an order so I went to Tesco and got three chickens for a tenner and will go to Morrisons to get some liver in a minute. Thought whilst I'm waiting for an order I may as well get cracking and make sure he is 100% fine on chicken and liver (he's had lots of chicken and a bit of liver, but they're the easiest bits I can get to trial).
> 
> Anyway! I know I can feed a whole chicken carcass, but I want to make sure I can 100% feed every bit of it! This is a photo of the one I cut the meat off, I know my cutting skills are poor but I thought he might like it more with some meat left on anyway..?
> 
> So do I have to try and get anything off the carcass like any remaining offal or do I just give him the whole thing? Also, the carcasses weigh 500-600g and he gets that in a whole day, what would I do to give him it should I just give him that in a morning and just give him a tiny bit of dinner or vice versa?


Sods law! 

Yes, you can feed the entire chicken 

If the carcasses are equal to his daily allowance, you can either cut them in half and give half in the morning and half in the evening (if he is fed twice daily), or give him half a carcass and freeze the rest for another day and give him something else for the other meal, OR feed him the entire carcass in one meal, and give him a very small second meal - a couple of your veggie ice cubes and a spoonful of yoghurt maybe, or small amount of goats milk with raw egg, or a whole carrot. Id go for the last option myself.

Just out of interest, are you doing a rest day at all?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Sods law!
> 
> Yes, you can feed the entire chicken
> 
> ...


I wasn't intending to do a rest day but could if you think it'd be a good idea? I'd just put him on Nature's Harvest the wet though I think, I'd quite like kibble totally out of his system to see how he goes.

Some of those carcass bones are a little sharp and quite strong I'm just a bit like can he really eat that?! I like the thought of him having it as a whole meal, I might give him it tomorrow morning or something and then do some veggie cubes/goat milk/egg something like that for his dinner 

I might have to give the labrador a day or two of raw to help use my chicken up :lol:

One of my brother's has just come home for 10 days to do some revision and the like (he's a graduate trainee management accountant) so I'm trying to persuade him to eat lots of the frozen veg we've got to free up some space 

Don't suppose you know how much kidney is like liver, do you? In that is it just as rich or a bit less?

I did some more veggie cubes yesterday and they got a bit more pureed than my first lot, do you think pureed is better to choppy pieces?








Versus:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Oooh also I tried him on just goat's milk, no sick! So last night I tried him with no bed time snack at all, no sick 

If I can get away with it I'm thinking of cutting it out, just because the other dog has to have a bedtime snack if Rupert gets one and he's getting really pushy and shovey in the evenings anticipating it. Really excited/jumpy and generally being a prat as well, he's not like that with dinner I think because the times vary a fair bit, but he doesn't lay off otherwise and he's not hungry he's just a greedy sod.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I wasn't intending to do a rest day but could if you think it'd be a good idea? I'd just put him on Nature's Harvest the wet though I think, I'd quite like kibble totally out of his system to see how he goes.
> 
> Some of those carcass bones are a little sharp and quite strong I'm just a bit like can he really eat that?! I like the thought of him having it as a whole meal, I might give him it tomorrow morning or something and then do some veggie cubes/goat milk/egg something like that for his dinner
> 
> ...


It's amazing how they can get through the bones isn't it. Puts into perspective what they could be capable of if they wanted to 

You don't need to do a rest day - it's personal choice. I personally do. Sunday is our rest day, they will get a small breakfast of raw egg and whole carrot and a light dinner of chicken wings only. Nice and easy to digest with no rich offal or tripe etc. Like I say though, personal choice 

Kidney isn't quite as rich as liver, but still go easy with it as all offal can cause funny tums if given too much too soon.

Dogs cannot digest large pieces of fruit and vegetables because they can't digest cellulose. Well, humans can't either - but we chew and grind our food with our teeth before swallowing which breaks up the cell walls and allows us to digest it. Dogs don't do this - as you know, they bite their food into manageable chunks and swallow whole, which doesn't break up the cells in the vegetables, and causes them to pass straight through as insoluble fibre, which IS good for them, but they won't absorb any of the vitamins from the veg.

So in order for the dog is to get any nutrition from them, the cell walls need to be broken down ready for them - best way is by pureeing/liquidising them, but finely chopping is ok too. You'll notice if you feed a whole raw carrot that it comes out the other end in identifiable pieces! - this is because it hasn't been digested, but if you feed blended/liquidised/finely chopped vegetables, you won't find any ''evidence'' in the dogs waste, because the dog has digested, and absorbed all the goodness, from the fruit or vegetable. The finer you can chop/blend the vegetables, the easier they are to digest, that's why I liquidise mine.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> It's amazing how they can get through the bones isn't it. Puts into perspective what they could be capable of if they wanted to
> 
> You don't need to do a rest day - it's personal choice. I personally do. Sunday is our rest day, they will get a small breakfast of raw egg and whole carrot and a light dinner of chicken wings only. Nice and easy to digest with no rich offal or tripe etc. Like I say though, personal choice
> 
> ...


Brilliant thanks  I will still use up the first ones I've got I don't think I saw much if any in his poop before, will have to inspect more closely 

I really like the sound of a rest day I think I will do my best to pop one of those in. 20% of his diet will eventually be tripe hopefully so might try him on some of that next weekend. Might skip the carcass tomorrow and give him chicken with a bit of kidney, watch how that goes through and give him a carcass on Weds or Thurs. Any loose poops and he'll be on his chicken. Any real probs and I'll do him a day on his wet food in between the raw.

Will have to write down a vague plan, I've got chicken, turkey and rabbit minces, chicken wings, ox liver, ox heart, lamb tripe and lamb bones coming. Think I'll have to be careful with the rabbit, liver and tripe mostly but he ought to be OK with the rest.

I'm so excited


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

DirtyGertie said:


> but I'm sure I saw somewhere else that someone includes tomatoes


Red tomatoes are fine unless he has arthritis in which case they exacerbate symptoms.

When Scott delivers, ask him when he's next back so you can plan.

Why did you decide on the veg? I'm just nosy because some people do, some don't include it.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

cinammontoast said:


> Red tomatoes are fine unless he has arthritis in which case they exacerbate symptoms.
> 
> When Scott delivers, ask him when he's next back so you can plan.
> 
> Why did you decide on the veg? I'm just nosy because some people do, some don't include it.


I will make sure to ask (bet I forget ) 

Basically Rupert likes his carrots and is a greedy boy so its just something else for him to eat. Plus people like Sleeping Lion, Six Star and Babycham do it so I figured I may as well join in :lol:

But like with the chicken carcass or if he starts being sick in the night again, I could give him a couple veggie cubes as something to eat and go in his belly to stop the sickness without giving him a fully fledged meal and messing about the other dog's dinner time too.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Got him a new bowl as raw and a greedy gulper bowl don't work hugely well. He had a sniff and a lick then took the portion in his mouth so I held the end to slow him down he seemed quite keen!

In reality he wont get chicken portions much, if ever just wings and mince etc so hoping it wont matter hugely anyway.

New bowl:









And dinner:


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Very snazzy bowl  Does he eat the veg ok not mixed with anything? (or is that a silly question considering he's a retriever?!).


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Cute bowl  He can have his milk in there too 

Willow is tuckered from her day at the obedience show but she's got tripe or tea when (if) she wakes up.

She had chicken wings for breakfast, she's so good with them now :smile:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Very snazzy bowl  Does he eat the veg ok not mixed with anything? (or is that a silly question considering he's a retriever?!).


Hehe yes that's a silly question :laugh:

I do like having a dog who just eats everything I must admit, that's one area I should never need to worry about! He's not as bad as the labrador and eats more sedately than him. I think he was a bit greedier about it tonight as he saw me doing the chickens this morning and Mum told him it was dinner time at 4.30pm when it wasn't so he's been all :w00t: since 4.30pm :lol:

The bowl isn't symmetrical which gets at me :blushing: But it was the nicest they had and I thought the way the lip is angled makes it less likely to get broken and there is no little ridge in the bottom for his veg to get stuck in


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Cute bowl  He can have his milk in there too
> 
> Willow is tuckered from her day at the obedience show but she's got tripe or tea when (if) she wakes up.
> 
> She had chicken wings for breakfast, she's so good with them now :smile:


Did you have to hold them for her at the start? I'm a worrier 

Bless her, Rupert could never sleep through dinner time she must be pooped! Saw photos on Facebook looks like it was good


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

No whole rabbits?! 

I must do an order! D me a huge favour and ask him when he's back near Watford.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

cinammontoast said:


> No whole rabbits?!
> 
> I must do an order! D me a huge favour and ask him when he's back near Watford.


Will do 

Trying to get Rupert out of the habit of having rabbits in his mouth I'm worried the full fur effect may encourage his chasing further :lol:

Don't suppose you know how I'd go about introducing liver or kidney do you? If I give him a small piece one day and it goes through OK, would I give him the same sized bit the next day, or a few days later or a bigger piece sooner/later? Got some packets of kidney I need to portion up don't want to do them too out as I've only got two packets.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Just gave him another leg quarter for breakfast, I don't think he was hugely impressed :lol:

No photo as it was literally last night's minus the veggie cubes. He was just looking at me after as if to say come on where's the rest?! He's got over it now though, I think its because he's not had quarters before only drumsticks/wings/the odd thigh so he's used to at least two pieces in one sitting.

He was really lazy this morning, didn't want to get up so I didn't bother walking him will take him in a couple hours instead, silly woof.

Chicken wing and breast quarter, half a lamb's kidney and some veggie cubes for tea tonight :001_smile:

Wondering if I should detach the wing and chop the breast up for him, otherwise I think he'll try to swallow the lump of meat whole if I don't hold onto it. Might dice the breast up...


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Did you have to hold them for her at the start? I'm a worrier
> 
> Bless her, Rupert could never sleep through dinner time she must be pooped! Saw photos on Facebook looks like it was good


Was a good day, v cold though.  She was so tired she even came up and slept in my room all night and she rarely does that.
I held chicken wings for Willow at the start else she just try and swallow them whole. Not now though, she is good as gold with them.



GoldenShadow said:


> Will do
> 
> Trying to get Rupert out of the habit of having rabbits in his mouth I'm worried the full fur effect may encourage his chasing further :lol:
> 
> Don't suppose you know how I'd go about introducing liver or kidney do you? If I give him a small piece one day and it goes through OK, would I give him the same sized bit the next day, or a few days later or a bigger piece sooner/later? Got some packets of kidney I need to portion up don't want to do them too out as I've only got two packets.


Because you want to feed offal every day I would do a little bit more each and every day



GoldenShadow said:


> Just gave him another leg quarter for breakfast, I don't think he was hugely impressed :lol:
> 
> No photo as it was literally last night's minus the veggie cubes. He was just looking at me after as if to say come on where's the rest?! He's got over it now though, I think its because he's not had quarters before only drumsticks/wings/the odd thigh so he's used to at least two pieces in one sitting.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a nice dinner. If it were Willow yes I would dice up the breast. As the likelihood of her chewing it would be low.

How's his poo?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Was a good day, v cold though.  She was so tired she even came up and slept in my room all night and she rarely does that.
> I held chicken wings for Willow at the start else she just try and swallow them whole. Not now though, she is good as gold with them.
> 
> Because you want to feed offal every day I would do a little bit more each and every day
> ...


He had a kibble poo but he did have it for breakfast yesterday! Tonight and tomorrow will be better I'm sure! Going to divide his liver between two evening meals, same for kidney then give him things like heart/pilchards too will try do up a meal plan today.

He didn't want to get up this morning but is full of it now! Haring round the garden after Milo he's pooped now.

On our walk:









After throttling Milo:









Given up:









Buy now he's started again! This was the end of round one when he was tired:

YouTube - Rupert


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Fantastic video and love them smiling piccies 
Lovely to see him so happy and full of beans. :thumbup:

Samba got dumped on me this morning cos Lewis' going Thorpe Park so I took them all for a walk. Willow went actual proper swimming which was nice . Samba was good as gold and the boys were great as usual.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Fantastic video and love them smiling piccies
> Lovely to see him so happy and full of beans. :thumbup:
> 
> Samba got dumped on me this morning cos Lewis' going Thorpe Park so I took them all for a walk. Willow went actual proper swimming which was nice . Samba was good as gold and the boys were great as usual.


Thanks 

Aww that's good they were all well behaved! Glad Willow got some proper swimming in, how do you feel her gait is now?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Tonight's dinner was all gone in about 40 seconds, I suppose thats not a huge rush is it..? He wasn't wolfing it he picks up the chicken sedate enough just swallows the bits whole but he wouldn't have chewed it if I hadn't diced it I doubt... So he had:

Half a lamb's kidney (about 30g I think), a chicken wing and breast quarter and some veggie cubes. All diced up besides the wing:


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Looks yummy 


Willow is much better thank you for asking.
She still paces when walking but I can get her to do a nice trot and she doesnt seem stiff or doing a wet knicker walk now


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Looks yummy
> 
> Willow is much better thank you for asking.
> She still paces when walking but I can get her to do a nice trot and she doesnt seem stiff or doing a wet knicker walk now


Ahh that's really good :thumbup: I was really worried about Rupert's for quite a while but he turned out OK in the end!

Breakfast this morning was slightly frozen :blushing: I got it out last night but our meat drawer in the fridge is so cold it didn't really defrost. He spluttered a bit at the end but I'm quite sure that's because he doesn't detach the meat from the bone so whilst the bones break the flesh is often still attached in biggish bits and half goes down half doesn't sort of thing. I don't know if he'd ever tear with his front teeth because his lower jaw has two teeth not properly through and I'm wondering if that's why he doesn't opt for that at all..?

Gimme me dinnerrrrrr









Want some moreeeeee 









Bit gulpy ish but he is crunching the bones at least, he'd been going at it at least 20-30 seconds before my phone started filming:

YouTube - Rupert&#39;s Raw Breakfast


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

I KNOW this isn't the point of the thread, but 'm lovng the photos of Rupert...and videos


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Nellybelly said:


> I KNOW this isn't the point of the thread, but 'm lovng the photos of Rupert...and videos


Haha thanks 

I like photos (and videos)  Gets a bit boring lots of writing I'd far rather have some photos to break it up :thumbup:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I got my order! Lovely chap really impressed, just one slight problem. I've got two bags of 5kg chicken wings welded together (frozen) and I don't know how I could separate them 

He wants about two a day every day but I really don't think I can break them off frozen and I can't refreeze can I? Babycham's came non frozen I thought mine would too :cryin:

I stuck my HUGE lamb bones in a shop carrier bag is that OK or not really? Didn't want to put them in in nothing but didn't have anything else big enough 

Rupert nearly refused to eat his kidney tonight, bit worried how I might go about getting the 14lbs tripe I bought down him 

Excited doggies:










An (almost) freezer full:


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Our chicken wings from Landywoods came in a 5lb bag frozen together. We just left them out for a little while while we portioned off the other stuff, and once we could get one wing off the outside of the bunch (not defrosted but you could see the outside had started to slightly start) then hubby got a clean chisel and prised them apart.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

aww no thats bad about the chicken wings 
Yes I put my big bones in carrier bags too.
I wouldnt worry about the tripe, most dogs love it. Have only heard of one on the forum who doesnt go mad for it


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Breakfast went down a storm today, he had his first whole chicken carcass. Was really impressed with him he trotted off down the decking to eat it on the grass and didn't chomp or gulp very quickly like I was a bit worried about. Doesn't like it touching his legs though so wouldn't hold it between them, dunno if its because it was cold due to still being a bit frozen or what but was quite funny :laugh:

First few attempts:
YouTube - -

Finishing it off:
YouTube - -

Mmmmmmmmmmm breakfasttttttt:










I have willpower...I have willpower:










Nom nom nom:












DirtyGertie said:


> Our chicken wings from Landywoods came in a 5lb bag frozen together. We just left them out for a little while while we portioned off the other stuff, and once we could get one wing off the outside of the bunch (not defrosted but you could see the outside had started to slightly start) then hubby got a clean chisel and prised them apart.


So is it OK providing they don't properly thaw out? Someone else said I could try running under cold water just to break the ice they might be stuck together with and to help try leaver them off?



babycham2002 said:


> aww no thats bad about the chicken wings
> Yes I put my big bones in carrier bags too.
> I wouldnt worry about the tripe, most dogs love it. Have only heard of one on the forum who doesnt go mad for it


I am a bit worried about the tripe, he wasn't sure of that kidney last night! Night before I chopped it into small bits just cut one into quarters last night and one bit he kept spitting out and going back to 

He was a bit soft yesterday with half a kidney but I gave him a whole kidney yesterday thinking he's eating a whole chicken carcass this morning which is all boney anyway and it wasn't mega soft just a bit. Had a funny coloured one this morning a slight yellow colour but putting that down to the grass he ate and the kidney it wasn't that soft.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Great pics and video, Rupert really seems to be enjoying it.



> So is it OK providing they don't properly thaw out? Someone else said I could try running under cold water just to break the ice they might be stuck together with and to help try leaver them off?


OH said they were sat on the worktop for about 20 minutes (ours was only 5lb though, not 5kg). One or two of the outside ones had started to very slightly thaw but only just enough to lever it away from the block. Once he'd got those off he used the chisel, he said a knife would not have been strong enough.

You could try running under cold water but you'd have to be careful to not allow them to thaw too much. But then you'd have to dry them all off because once you put them in the freezer if they have any water on it will freeze them back together again, or pack two in a bag but you'd still probably need to dry off to a certain extent.

As long as they don't properly defrost and are still mainly frozen they should be fine.

The tripe should be fine. It's very smelly and most dogs love smelly things. So far out of the minces we've used (chicken; chicken and tripe; lamb; turkey) the chicken and tripe and the lamb are the ones she has sat at OH's feet for, the others she's stayed on her bed. The chicken and tripe was obviously quite smelly and the lamb was a bit smelly because it was very bloody compared to the others.

I tried liver last week with Poppy. I gave her a piece about twice the size of my thumbnail. She had soft poop the next day. I left it for a few days and tried again and literally just shaved half a dozen pieces off a frozen chunk so it would have been about half the amount compared to the previous time. Her poops were fine. So I will be introducing the offal a tiny bit at a time and gradually building it up as she gets used to it. I haven't tried the kidney yet.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Can't separate them without them defrosting so going to dump them (all £10 worth ) in the bin and see if my butchers can help


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> Can't separate them without them defrosting so going to dump them (all £10 worth ) in the bin and see if my butchers can help


Oh no! Get off what you can, they should stay fresh for 2 or 3 days in the fridge. Just think how long a shelf life fresh ones have in the supermarket! Then just bung the rest back in the freezer and have another go in a few days. You really ought to be able to prise them apart with a bit of persuasion when they've been out a little while, they wont thoroughly defrost, as long as they're still partially frozen they will be fine.


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## rawdogs (Nov 27, 2008)

There is no need to dump them,dogs have far stronger stomachs than we do,and have no probs with meat that has been refrozen,again and again.
I do this quite often,with wings and necks,they have never been ill yet.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

DirtyGertie said:


> Oh no! Get off what you can, they should stay fresh for 2 or 3 days in the fridge. Just think how long a shelf life fresh ones have in the supermarket! Then just bung the rest back in the freezer and have another go in a few days. You really ought to be able to prise them apart with a bit of persuasion when they've been out a little while, they wont thoroughly defrost, as long as they're still partially frozen they will be fine.


I've got two off, that's it  The bottom side its like one big slab of meat and I can't do anything on that side. They've been out the freezer almost three hours 

I tried chiselling and in the end put them in the sink under cold water and after 20 mins prised one off. After a further 10 mins got another off and not been able to get anymore off after 30 mins so I've given up. Can't leave them in the sink else have to keep dogs out the kitchen all afternoon which is their only route outside.

If I can be bothered in the week I might have a go at the other 5kgs but can not be bothered with that slab its just not coming apart and I don't have the time to try and separate them :nonod: I've put chisel holes in a fair few where I thought it was the edge of a wing and it wasn't etc.



rawdogs said:


> There is no need to dump them,dogs have far stronger stomachs than we do,and have no probs with meat that has been refrozen,again and again.
> I do this quite often,with wings and necks,they have never been ill yet.


I'm too much of a wuss to refreeze Mum is like nooooo don't do that with chicken :cryin:

Got just under 2kgs fresh from my butchers just now for £3.20 so its more expensive but they will keep me going til I can sort something out properly. To be honest, I'd rather get them fresh if I can just because it'd be easier for me so if they will come frozen each time I may get them from my butcher.

This is the 'good' side:


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I was going to say the same as rawdogs - don't dump them! If dogs can eat raw chicken without getting ill, they can eaten re-frozen meat without a bother  I used to get my tripe frozen in a huge block - there was no way you'd get through it frozen, or even partially defrosted, so I'd wait until it was fully thawed, chop it up and then refreeze it again. Also, years ago, when I was new to BARF, if I got too much food out of the freezer for the dogs and only realised once it was defrosted, I'd put it back in again to refreeze - never had any trouble. Dogs have alot stronger stomachs than we do! 

Let them defrost enough for them to be broken up (even if that means fully thawed) - portion them up and then freeze again - they'll be fine! I promise


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> I was going to say the same as rawdogs - don't dump them! If dogs can eat raw chicken without getting ill, they can eaten re-frozen meat without a bother  I used to get my tripe frozen in a huge block - there was no way you'd get through it frozen, or even partially defrosted, so I'd wait until it was fully thawed, chop it up and then refreeze it again. Also, years ago, when I was new to BARF, if I got too much food out of the freezer for the dogs and only realised once it was defrosted, I'd put it back in again to refreeze - never had any trouble. Dogs have alot stronger stomachs than we do!
> 
> Let them defrost enough for them to be broken up (even if that means fully thawed) - portion them up and then freeze again - they'll be fine! I promise


I think I've semi knackered the first lot, will try what you say (just leaving them out and pulling apart) with the other lot and just save what I can off this one, think its going to be a while before I can part them :thumbdown:

Do you know why people insist we don't refreeze raw chicken even if we're going to cook it after?

I don't know much about storing raw meats and things like eating chicken within 24 hours of being defrosted, no idea how or why that came about so I tend to just abide by it.

Quite handy that I can get some from the butchers though!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Can't separate them without them defrosting so going to dump them (all £10 worth ) in the bin and see if my butchers can help


Don't bin them! Wait til vaguely defrosted then prise apart, freeze in various bags.

I use carrier bags for my bones too. All good. I just find chopping them up a bit of a bloody trauma!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

cinammontoast said:


> Don't bin them! Wait til vaguely defrosted then prise apart, freeze in various bags.
> 
> I use carrier bags for my bones too. All good. I just find chopping them up a bit of a bloody trauma!


Oh seriously I can't express in words how angry those chicken wings made me this morning 

I was like a demented woman with chisel and rubber mallet, even tried dropping the lump from 10 foot in the air  Didn't work mind :cryin:

Going to have to thaw them out a fair bit I reckon, they're really glued together and prizing them apart was involving snapping lots of them and bits off in places 

So going to ask if I can get them fresh next time make it easy for me! One of the abattoirs they use is only about 10 mins away so they're here quite often


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Had an awfully slimy/mucousy poop this morning! I think it must have been the chicken carcass which, to be honest I didn't think he'd have huge problems with as he's had chicken quarters/wings/thighs/drumsticks/liver loads and not had problems but his tummy obviously wasn't too happy.

Monday he had half a lambs kidney and chicken quarter for tea. Produced slightly softer poop and was a little yellow but was easily as solid as kibble poop. Gave him a bit more kidney (about a whole one) Tues night with a quarter and poop was a bit better slightly yellow tint but more solid.

Then comes yesterday where he had a chicken carcass for breaky, chicken breast and a bit of carrot for tea and this morning was the big iffy poop. Will just leave him on chicken quarters/wings on their own for the next few days and if he's nice and solid give him a go on the chicken mince from the dog food company. I honestly didn't think he'd have problems with a carcass as he's had so much chicken before, maybe it was the amount of bone involved. He's fine in himself, not at all bothered and didn't rush to gobble it up yesterday so all I can think is his belly was just like bleurgh no thanks...

He's had a chicken leg quarter for breakfast and will be getting a chicken wing quarter with breast and probably an additional couple of wings for dinner tonight.

ETA: He's been scratching and chewing at himself lots this morning hope he's not having problems with chicken else we may well be buggered on raw, he can't do pork or beef as it is


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Rupert's number 2's are bad right now, trying to track down some pro kolin (never needed to give it him before).

Not sure if I should carry him on the chicken quarters or put him back on commercial food for a couple days?

He's 100% fine in himself, was wanting to go but struggling and was just very mucousy and not solid poor lad. I can't think there is anything left to come out and he is happy as larry just his poor botty isn't


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

SOrry you're having problems with the transition to raw. Can't offer much advise as the only raw thing I feed is marrow bones.

If he were my dog, I'd probably get him back to his usual food that I know doesn't affect him tummy, but I'm a scaredy cat with these things...so not the most objective person to get an opinion from.

Bella has the runs with one antibiotic she had post - spay. She needed antibiotics after that when she had surgery to remove a thron from her foot, and we decided with the vet to give her only injectable ones which worked fine andcaused no tummy problems. I think I'm too scared to ever try her on oral antibiotics again, even a different kind. So that is why you should perhaps ignore my opinion


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

I'd go back to chicken wings and quarters, no offal for a few days 


Hope it improves.
Love to Roo


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

OK will stick him on chicken...Got him some Pro Kolin gave him 3-5mls soon as I got it at 3.30pm will give him 2ml or so before bed, 2 ml in the morning etc.

Instead of bothering with offal in a few days would I be better trying another chicken carcass say early next week see how that goes down? Or maybe even some of the mince I've got/tripe.....

:cryin: 

Thanks Nellybelly and Babycham


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Really hope he's better soon and the itching passes. You really should try some BB you know, it would support his tum throughout the change and works wonders for the itchy reaction too. I am sure you would notice a difference. It could even be the answer longterm on a maintenance dose.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Take away the offal! You gave him a whole kidney? From scratch? Start very slowly! Stick to chicken for a week or ore before you add anything else.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

cinammontoast said:


> Take away the offal! You gave him a whole kidney? From scratch? Start very slowly! Stick to chicken for a week or ore before you add anything else.


No I gave him half a lambs kidney which weighed less than 30g and was about 2cm long and 2cm wide. Went through fine except ever so slightly softer poop but he had had less bone so I put it down to less bone hence the only real difference was a slight yellow colour. Following advice from people I asked on the forum they suggested I build it up so I gave him two cubes that size the next day which also appeared to come through ok albeit a little softer so I cut it out. Then he had his carcass yesterday as my attempt to firm up anything left over which gave him the squits. I'm more concerned it was the carcass to be honest, when something upsets him it never normally takes 36 hours to come out the other end.

Or it could even be a combination of things his itching has suddenly got worse and his ears are quite hot and he has collicked twice this week


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Oh man, what you gonna do? When Bear cub had diorreoah, the whole rabbit sorted him out, but that would be a disaster for Rupert, I reckon. I wouldn't put him back on previous food. Stick to chicken breast meat for a while. Expensive but worth it.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

cinammontoast said:


> Oh man, what you gonna do? When Bear cub had diorreoah, the whole rabbit sorted him out, but that would be a disaster for Rupert, I reckon. I wouldn't put him back on previous food. Stick to chicken breast meat for a while. Expensive but worth it.


This is what bugs me with Rupes so many things happen that seem to make no sense or that I can't pinpoint as to why they happen! Hopefully he'll do ok on his chicken bits for a few days, might try him on some of the dog food company minces next week and leave offal and carcasses til after then.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Hope Rupert is a bit better today and the meds are helping his tum x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks he seems right as rain in that department..! Didn't really have much to poop I don't think, he did a tiny crumbly one and a couple droppings all solid no mucous 

Not sure whether to give him the PK stuff all day or not vets said until he's better and I suppose he is now...He really loves it though, get the box out and he comes running over all :001_tt1:


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I hate situations like that. If you dont give him any you are going to wish you did - if you do, he will carry on fine and you'll think it was a waste of time

Think perhaps I would give him some just to be sure

Totally random but have you tried him with evening primrose oil for his itchy/hot ears??


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I hate situations like that. If you dont give him any you are going to wish you did - if you do, he will carry on fine and you'll think it was a waste of time
> 
> Think perhaps I would give him some just to be sure


OK :laugh:

He's had 2ml this morning so will give him another 2 later etc, he proper loves it 

Going to buy some off the internet, vets charged me £14 for 15ml its £11 for 30ml on internet!! Not sure whether to get 2 x 15mls or 1 x 30ml, 15mls would be more usable I guess he certainly hasn't needed much to straighten him out, got at least 6mls left of this tube maybe 8mls if I have understood it wrong.


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## dvnbiker (Dec 2, 2009)

the itchiness is quite normal when you swop to a raw diet. We had this for about 2 weeks and apparently it is the toxins that come out of their body and make them itch. About a month in it all stopped and then we had the shiny coats etc.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

dvnbiker said:


> the itchiness is quite normal when you swop to a raw diet. We had this for about 2 weeks and apparently it is the toxins that come out of their body and make them itch. About a month in it all stopped and then we had the shiny coats etc.


Oooh thanks that's really good to know! He has undiagnosed allergies and I was wondering if that was about to kick off, he's been free of that since about August last year. He seems OK today though...


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

The pk stuff costs loads! Purer and therefore more effective is the human version, kaolin and morphine. It's rare to find the morphine content version anymore because it's prescription only, but my local independent chemist had it. Places like Boots, Asda, only have kaolin, which works as well, just no pain killing properties.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

cinammontoast said:


> The pk stuff costs loads! Purer and therefore more effective is the human version, kaolin and morphine. It's rare to find the morphine content version anymore because it's prescription only, but my local independent chemist had it. Places like Boots, Asda, only have kaolin, which works as well, just no pain killing properties.


I looked on Boots online and saw that with morphine stuff was prescription only. Have got a 30ml tube at £11 coming but I owe Mum for it I'm a bit broke right now.

Poop was solid today but one incredibly crumbly, he's fine in himself still though!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

He collicked again this afternoon albeit not too badly but the vets said it still counts, so its three times this week as well now :crying:

As it stands right now they want him in next week


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Aww dear - really sorry. Dont know what else to say, fingers crossed it's all down to detox


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Im not an expert hun but id take it very slow with new meats especially if he's prone to alergies. With Jack i left him on chicken for a good month (unsure how long Rupert been on it) before i slowly added other meats. He was fine but any offal (when i can disguise it enough) in large amounts shoots through him like a Porshe :lol:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Aww dear - really sorry. Dont know what else to say, fingers crossed it's all down to detox


Hoping so too but the colic was about before I began the transition, am quite worried 



XxZoexX said:


> Im not an expert hun but id take it very slow with new meats especially if he's prone to alergies. With Jack i left him on chicken for a good month (unsure how long Rupert been on it) before i slowly added other meats. He was fine but any offal (when i can disguise it enough) in large amounts shoots through him like a Porshe :lol:


It's not a food allergy my vets are as confident as can be that it is environmental and I can say I'm quite confident it was the chicken (carcass) which gave him problems if it was any food item. I don't think a month of chicken would be a good idea with him how he is at the minute, vet says he needs as complete a diet as possible even if it's tiny amounts. Might just have to go part commercial at this rate. Have to say Rupert never did well at all on cooked chicken so I am wondering if his stomach can only take certain quantities of that at a time and it got a bit overloaded with it.

Right now I am leaning much more to sticking him back on commercial food right now, think this is the wrong tome to piss with his diet, one of the vets has already mentioned the dreaded C word


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Slightly different but try not to worry too much about variety as long as they are getting a bit of variety. Have you tried turkey instead of chicken? You should be able to source turkey wings and turkey necks, it's simliar to chicken but he might not have an issue with it? Lexi can only eat chicken turkey lamb and rabbit, that is as much variety as she can manage and can't have anything beef based i always get lamb liver and lamb kidney as i know she is ok on that. I tried her on venison OH MY GOD not good. She only has 4 meats but she is in really good condition and i don't think she is loosing out on anything. Oh and she has had a bit of tripe and was ok on that.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

LexiLou2 said:


> Slightly different but try not to worry too much about variety as long as they are getting a bit of variety. Have you tried turkey instead of chicken? You should be able to source turkey wings and turkey necks, it's simliar to chicken but he might not have an issue with it? Lexi can only eat chicken turkey lamb and rabbit, that is as much variety as she can manage and can't have anything beef based i always get lamb liver and lamb kidney as i know she is ok on that. I tried her on venison OH MY GOD not good. She only has 4 meats but she is in really good condition and i don't think she is loosing out on anything. Oh and she has had a bit of tripe and was ok on that.


I'm not worried about variety? I mean in terms of he ought to be having offal and tripe as part of raw not just one meat? He cannot tolerate any pork whatsoever and beef doesn't go down well, have to say I've not seen any turkey bits except fillets will have to look out. Got some lamb bones in freezer and some rabbit mince and chicken mine but rest is tripe etc. But he needs offal for it to be a balanced diet sort of thing and with him having his issues I don't want him missing out on any vitamins etc in case it worsens hence I may go back to commercial for now


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

I really dont know what to suggest as Jacks pretty much got an Iron stomach.. Just hope you manage to put your finger on the problem. 
Its a tough one


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Oh dear  Please give it a little longer to trial - it can take a month or more for their systems to detox.

I agree with the lady who owns Jack (sorry don't know username and being SO lazy that I can't be bothered to scroll up and look ) - keep him on chicken for a while, at least a couple of weeks and see how he goes, he won't become deficient in anything in that amount of time but if you are very worried, pop him on a vitamin supplement to ensure he is getting everything and put your mind at rest.

He wasn't any better on commercial food was he? So why go back? If he is having issues on both commercial and raw, you might as well stay on raw and give him all the great benefits of that diet whilst waiting to get answers in regards to whats up with him?  

BUT if not - then there's no shame in going back to commercial. You gave it a go and if you think it isn't working and it isn't for Rupert, then go back to what you are both comfortable with.

I'd personally battle it out a bit longer though


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Oh dear  Please give it a little longer to trial - it can take a month or more for their systems to detox.
> 
> I agree with the lady who owns Jack (sorry don't know username and being SO lazy that I can't be bothered to scroll up and look ) - keep him on chicken for a while, at least a couple of weeks and see how he goes, he won't become deficient in anything in that amount of time but if you are very worried, pop him on a vitamin supplement to ensure he is getting everything and put your mind at rest.
> 
> ...


I thought raw may help with the colic but its not and right now my vets want him in for stomach x rays next week and I'm concerned I don't know what is normal for him on raw as its so new to compare with anything so I am wondering if he should go back to commercial til this colic thing is looked at. I thought raw would help the colic and the vet I prefer I've not yet been able to speak to (he suggested raw).

I don't think I can do chicken for that long the more I think about it the more chance I think it's the volume of chicken he's not doing well on. Might try another meat like turkey ASAP. It's not I don't want him on raw its I'm not sure I can tell what's normal when he's on it? The vet I spoke to doesn't want to leave investigating the colic so it's not like I can see how he goes if I follow his advice. Can't speak to other vet who knows Roo more til next week.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Sorry Ruperts poorly Lily,
I hope you get to talk to the vet that suggested raw soon and then be able to make some decisions from there.


Can you explain to me what colic actually is? It sounds like what Joe's Benji suffers from .


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> Sorry Ruperts poorly Lily,
> I hope you get to talk to the vet that suggested raw soon and then be able to make some decisions from there.
> Can you explain to me what colic actually is? It sounds like what Joe's Benji suffers from .


Well its what the vet is calling what Roo does, like a belly upset but not bloat as they recover themselves without veterinary intervention. Roo starts to heave and swallow, heave and swallow and starts pacing. Then begs to go out and eats as much grass as possible whilst pacing, won't eat or drink without me forcing it on him and just very restless. Lasts anywhere from half an hour to two hours for him no pattern with when he ate, what he ate or when he was walked it's really weird.

Was hoping it might be something in commercial food setting him off, have to give him a Zantac when it happens but he's so restless his belly is obviously quite sore when it happens  I was convinced it was bloat but vet says if it was he wouldnt recover like he does (I can't get him there in time when it happens for them to see him). Could be a random unknown problem, stomach ulcers, an intolerance, cancer etc which is why they want to do x rays if more than once a week occurrence like it has been. It could be nothing at all but he's really quite out of it when it happens and unresponsive I am worried how it just so randomly happens.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm going to sound really stupid but I don't know Ruperts symptoms sorry, but Lexi stuggles with anything in excess, she has irritable bowel and a sensitive stomach and can be really quite bad at times, she is 2 year old and she was still pooping in the house through the night and we regularly had the runs, most she was going was about 13 times a day.
Have you tried any herbal medicines along side your diet change? We put Lexi on raw and although her tummy got better it wasn't brilliant, so i introduced probiotic yoghurt (lexi is fine with dairy but i believe you can get goats milk probiotic yoghurt if not) and she got better again but not perfect then someone asked if i had tried herbal and recommended Dorwest Tree bark, now this can be used occasionally or it can be used daily, at the minute we give her half a teaspoon with her breakfast and half a teaspoon with her tea daily. It soothes the digestive system and slows it down giving animals more time to digest the food. I think its about £10 for 100g and 100g will last about 2 months? just google dorwest tree bark.
I got fed up going to the vets because although they could tell me what was wrong they couldn't tell me how to help her so i started just trying things if they worked brill if not well i stopped it.
With offal Lexi can't have a lot at all, the raw 2 go minces have the right split and she is ok with that but if she eats anything more than half a lamb kidney in one day she gets a dodgy tummy. Seems perfectly ok with heart though for some reason.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

LexiLou2 said:


> I'm going to sound really stupid but I don't know Ruperts symptoms sorry, but Lexi stuggles with anything in excess, she has irritable bowel and a sensitive stomach and can be really quite bad at times, she is 2 year old and she was still pooping in the house through the night and we regularly had the runs, most she was going was about 13 times a day.
> Have you tried any herbal medicines along side your diet change? We put Lexi on raw and although her tummy got better it wasn't brilliant, so i introduced probiotic yoghurt (lexi is fine with dairy but i believe you can get goats milk probiotic yoghurt if not) and she got better again but not perfect then someone asked if i had tried herbal and recommended Dorwest Tree bark, now this can be used occasionally or it can be used daily, at the minute we give her half a teaspoon with her breakfast and half a teaspoon with her tea daily. It soothes the digestive system and slows it down giving animals more time to digest the food. I think its about £10 for 100g and 100g will last about 2 months? just google dorwest tree bark.
> I got fed up going to the vets because although they could tell me what was wrong they couldn't tell me how to help her so i started just trying things if they worked brill if not well i stopped it.
> With offal Lexi can't have a lot at all, the raw 2 go minces have the right split and she is ok with that but if she eats anything more than half a lamb kidney in one day she gets a dodgy tummy. Seems perfectly ok with heart though for some reason.


He's not on any supplements and at the minute I am a bit chicken to add any with this colic But what you say about your girl does sound similar. I just don't know what to do for him it's like I'm wrong and right whatever I do??

Every few weeks on commercial he would get a couple dodgy poops and vets have said for now be careful of things like dairy but if I can get goat prebiotic yoghurt I would give that a whirl in the very near future. He can't produce anything vaguely solid on anything pork and beef is similar but not as bad. Cows milk is a nono as a result of his beef issue for now but I used to give him natural yoghurt and he seemed ok.

Nothing adds up for his digestion, so many weird issues I'm stuck for what to do but I am feeling this much chicken might not be favourable for his tummy so may try some turkey or similar early next week. Got lots of pro kolin on it's way and he didn't care about having the squits I think I'm going to have to just bite the bullet and try something different then I would definitely know like Zoe says if its raw in general or just certain meats but I'd rather a day of the squits than a few weeks on something his belly can't digest well?


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

He sounds similar to Lexi (this is gonig to be a LONG post) when we got Lexi at 8 weeks she was on wagg puppy complete, I put her on JWB and all was good until she was 6 months old and she got the most horredous stomach infection, it took a month of boiled chicken and rice, probiotics and antibiotics to get a solid poo out of her and as soon as we put her back on JWB she was really poorly again. We finally got her on Chappie and we had solid poos but she was pooing 13 to 14 times a day. we tried 6 or 7 dry foods before getting her on burns chicken and rice and we had solid poos but she was pooing nearly every night through the night and then she would get better, then we would get a new bag of food (still burns chicken and rice but just a new bag) and she would get bad again. I wanted to stop the pooing through the night as it was distressing her but was very obvious she couldn't help it so i tried raw and she got better but not perfect. I tried probiotic yoghurt and again that improved her but not perfect, now she has dorwest tree bark in her breakfast and her tea and a tablespoon of probiotic yoghurt with her tea and she is brilliant. Lexis main problem is a total cereal intollerance but she is a terror for scavenging rubbish on walks and now with the tree bark powder she can eat anything with cereals in it and it keeps her stomach contollable.
I obviously don't know your vet but my vet is rubbish with Lexis issues because by their own admission they are no good at nutrition, so they give me advice but nothing solid, thats why i started taking others advice i figured if it works brilliant well if it doesn't work at least i've tried.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Whats the news then Lily? Hows Rupert now?



I had a talk with Joe and the syptoms you describe are what Benji has, their vet calls it IBS and he gets given zantac and when its really bad steroid tablets.


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## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Lexis is supposedly IBS too but seems to be managed by her diet and supplements.

Zantac as in what humans have?


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

LexiLou2 said:


> Lexis is supposedly IBS too but seems to be managed by her diet and supplements.
> 
> Zantac as in what humans have?


Yes  Although its in a medicine type bottle, the old fashioned brown ones.

I also got given zantac when Percy poisoned himself and he had to have it for two weeks afterwards to protect his stomache.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Well from now Rupert gets a new meat/thing he hasn't had every other day until he's weaned onto it properly and eating the proper amounts of it all. Vet thinks he has issues with large quantities of maybe chicken or maybe just the same food type hence his fortnightly wobble on his kibble/wet food diet. Said if he is going to have an aversion to something I will easily see it within 48 hours and if giving small amounts there is no reason for his belly to get particularly bad.

So for now he will be having something new every other day and seeing how he goes, got some tripe for tonight. Then some rabbit mince for tomorrow and so on.

Can't get much worse, at least!


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Well from now Rupert gets a new meat/thing he hasn't had every other day until he's weaned onto it properly and eating the proper amounts of it all. Vet thinks he has issues with large quantities of maybe chicken or maybe just the same food type hence his fortnightly wobble on his kibble/wet food diet. Said if he is going to have an aversion to something I will easily see it within 48 hours and if giving small amounts there is no reason for his belly to get particularly bad.
> 
> So for now he will be having something new every other day and seeing how he goes, got some tripe for tonight. Then some rabbit mince for tomorrow and so on.
> 
> Can't get much worse, at least!


Sounds like a perfectly good plan to me. Everything crossed that it's successful.
Definately given me a bit of food for thought (pardon the pun). I've started alternating brands and proteins with wet food for Heidi but hadnt looked at it that way. Brilliant idea, lets hope you see some good results :thumbup1:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Sounds like a perfectly good plan to me. Everything crossed that it's successful.
> Definately given me a bit of food for thought (pardon the pun). I've started alternating brands and proteins with wet food for Heidi but hadnt looked at it that way. Brilliant idea, lets hope you see some good results :thumbup1:


Thanks :thumbup: 

Duhhhhhhh I mean rabbit for the day after tomorrow I'm not with it :lol:


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Thanks :thumbup:
> 
> Duhhhhhhh I mean rabbit for the day after tomorrow I'm not with it :lol:


Tis ok, I got the drift - you've had an overdose of that lovely vet - I know :thumbup1:


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## feathered bird lover (May 23, 2011)

hi,

how is your dog now, hope the zantak did the job, funnily enough the doctor prescribed that for my husands jippy tummy, turned out to be a rare stomach condition, never mind!

my dog eats cooked chicken, meat etc, will not eat anything raw except a big fish, he prefers trout to salmon, believe it or not. he loves chappie with some dry chappie mixed through it, he is prone to a jippy tummy every now and then and chappies what the vet suggested, great for his constitution seeemingly. my dogs 6 and is as fit as a fiddle. he gets dog treats never chocolate or rubbish like that. anyway hope you dogs improved.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks feathered bird lover, good to hear your dog is doing well! 

Rupert is doing GREAT at the minute. Got so much go, took him out for THREE miles without him wanting to stop and he was a bit peeved to have to come home   

Been on the go all day, bit itchy but soooo much more with it


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Bugger guess who is pacing the garden with colic


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

He has just collicked again now at 2am


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Aww Lily, I'm so sorry. 
How is he today?
Is he still having the protexin?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

No only gave him that to settle him he's not been on it for a few days.

He has spluttered a few times this morning but that could be if he's inhaled a bit of fluff or something 

Just urgh 

Will see how he goes in the next week if he colics once more I'll be knocking at the vet's door again.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Gosh, I cant imagine how you must be feeling. I know when Heidi's a bit off I watching like a hawk and willing her better with a vengeance. It makes me sooo on edge.
Really hope you manage to get to the bottom of this, hopefully by the time his new diet kicks. He may still be a bit YUK after all the chicken.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Gosh, I cant imagine how you must be feeling. I know when Heidi's a bit off I watching like a hawk and willing her better with a vengeance. It makes me sooo on edge.
> Really hope you manage to get to the bottom of this, hopefully by the time his new diet kicks. He may still be a bit YUK after all the chicken.


Maybe, just so sporadic 

I don't want to give him too much pro texin stuff as the first ingredient is soya oil. We all know the main allergens to dogs are beef, pork, dairy, *soya*, wheat.

So I'm a bit paranoid with using that more than I have to! The CaniJest they recommended was not much better, first ingredient rapeseed oil and we think that might be what his ears were flaring up to, he has no issues down here and we seem to have no rape. Had tonnes where we were before and his ears were atrocious.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Internet went off at a really bad time! Rupert has gone lame  I can manipulate his leg, nothing in his feet etc and so vets have said put him on crate rest. I feel bad as I've gone to an interview I'm in car park now but vets said he should be fine for a few hours.

Why is it always Rupert?! 

Been watching videos I took on my phone it's his left front leg. He doesn't want to not walk etc he's up for it juat skipping and limping along...


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Goodness me - if it wasnt for bad luck you wouldnt have any at all. So sorry.
Hope Rupert was ok while you had your interview and that it was successful.
Dont know what else to say but here's a (((BIG hug)))) x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Goodness me - if it wasnt for bad luck you wouldnt have any at all. So sorry.
> Hope Rupert was ok while you had your interview and that it was successful.
> Dont know what else to say but here's a (((BIG hug)))) x


Will get contacted soonish about whether I got through to the next stages of that job or not. Reckon I will be as hardly anyone showed haha 

Done a thread on his lameness, he's no better now


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Back at the vets at 3.30pm tomorrow, and not for the lameness either   

He has been a bit coughy/spluttery today but I thought maybe he has inhaled hair or something, it happens you know?

Well he just sicked up this massive lump of grass about the size of a sausage but longer so its all twisted together sort of thing. Then lots more bile. Its probably all the stuff from last night.

His colic last night was bad enough, he has been spluttery all day and a bit lame and now sicking up all the grass and a shed load more bile. He's never had a problem passing grass before and used to eat bugger loads.

Just dunno what to do with him. I'm not feeding him any bones like wings or anything at the minute either, its chicken mince so the pieces are microscopic or just breast meat with the odd bit of something new like a tiny bit of tripe (which has all gone through fine by the way).

Getting really sick of this, doubt we can get x rays done at 3.30pm tomorrow but I want them doing after this, what if he gets really bad one day and I'm not here??  If anything I want a better way to control this colic and make him feel better instead of eating so much grass he sicks it up the next day.

Just want to :crying: right now. Can't see us ever getting to the bottom of this and I feel as though because he always has random problems hardly anyone on here gives a sh*t and thinks I'm just over reacting :crying:


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Hey, come on, you know that's not true about hardly anybody caring - and nobody thinks you are overreacting - it's natural to worry when anything is wrong with our dogs, even more so when problems are undiagnosed and on going. You and Rupert really do seem to be going through a tough time of late and I for one, really feel for the pair of you.

There is nothing that can't be sorted, and you WILL get to the bottom of his problems in the end, even if it doesn't feel that way now - maybe you could ask for some referrals to a specialist clinic? You are going to have to really push for them, but they'll be worth it if you get them. When my Riley was so ill again at the beginning of the year (only had a year with him, serious problems from the word go) I literally had to beg for the referral to the specialist, but we got it in the end, and it was worth it. 

Hopefully you'll be able to get x-rays done tomorrow - a couple of times I've had dogs x-rayed after going to evening appointments (5pm and later), they normally lightly sedate the dog just enough to calm rather than a full sedation and send the dog home still very whoozy. But if not, hopefully you'll be able to get an appointment for Saturday or after the weekend?

In all honesty, it does sound like raw isn't doing it for him? He seems worse now than on commercial? There is no shame in going back to commercial if you feel that'd be beneficial - you've given it and whirl, and to be fair, it sounds like it isn't working, so there is no need to feel bad.

Chin up, and please keep us updated on how Rupert is doing. We do care and are interested.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Hey, come on, you know that's not true about hardly anybody caring - and nobody thinks you are overreacting - it's natural to worry when anything is wrong with our dogs, even more so when problems are undiagnosed and on going. You and Rupert really do seem to be going through a tough time of late and I for one, really feel for the pair of you.
> 
> There is nothing that can't be sorted, and you WILL get to the bottom of his problems in the end, even if it doesn't feel that way now - maybe you could ask for some referrals to a specialist clinic? You are going to have to really push for them, but they'll be worth it if you get them. When my Riley was so ill again at the beginning of the year (only had a year with him, serious problems from the word go) I literally had to beg for the referral to the specialist, but we got it in the end, and it was worth it.
> 
> ...


Its not that I think people are uncaring but I feel they think I overreact and so Rupert's issues aren't important like other dog's are.

The real triggering point for starting raw was that he colicked really bad at 3pm one day then 10am the next day. I decided we couldn't go on like this and raw couldn't make it any worse. In all honesty I really don't think we would be in a different place right now if he was fed on commercial as opposed to raw. He started colicking back in October 2010 and didn't get anything of raw whatsoever until about March this year, not even a chicken wing. I started raw on 15th May and he didn't properly colic at all that week. A twinge or so but not enough to warrant giving him a tablet or worry, could have just been having an off day etc.

Its just so many random crappy things and I promise him whenever he's bad I'll find out what it is but I'm really scared we can't :crying:


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

*We do all care and are all interested*; I just rarely reply beyond 'liking' peoples' good advice as I have no better advice than the very knowledgeable people who comment on your threads regularly. A lot of other members are probably the same - I feel that to add something of little value is cluttering these 'serious' threads as opposed to a lot of the light hearted 'chat' ones. Chin up, we are all rooting for Rupert. .


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Dogless said:


> *We do all care and are all interested*; I just rarely reply beyond 'liking' peoples' good advice as I have no better advice than the very knowledgeable people who comment on your threads regularly. A lot of other members are probably the same - I feel that to add something of little value is cluttering these 'serious' threads as opposed to a lot of the light hearted 'chat' ones. Chin up, we are all rooting for Rupert. .


Please don't think I don't think people care, I mean in that because I post so much crap and get so worried I feel like people think its just another thing and don't always read what I write if that makes sense?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Have a chat with your vet about referring you to The Queens Vet School Hospital - the work these guys do are amazing.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Please don't think I don't think people care, I mean in that because I post so much crap and get so worried I feel like people think its just another thing and don't always read what I write if that makes sense?


It does make sense. I certainly read, but usually know less than other posters hence no replies, I'll think you'll find a few people on here do that.

I know how it feels when problems feel overwhelming as they just keep coming - as if the whole world is conspiring against you at times . Hopefully you will get to the bottom of Rupert's problems very soon.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Have a chat with your vet about referring you to The Queens Vet School Hospital - the work these guys do are amazing.


Is that at Cambridge?

Do you think I should get him referred asap no matter what my vets say? This lot do seem quite good, I really like them but he has so many random things going on I don't know what they will suggest...


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Yes, they're in Cambridge. They gave us lots of options to try with Riley and were an amazing help - really lovely people who really know their stuff. You can't be seen there thought without a vets referral, so it all depends on what your vet says - I'd certainly be inclined to ask for one outright though, they'll hopefully be able to give you fresh ideas and try different options to the ones your vets have already exhausted. Rileys problems were stomach/digestive issues too, so you'd probably see the same people as us - like I say, they're great.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Golden Shadow - I read, I care, sweetie, like so many others. I certainly don't think you post too much about Rupert. If I don't reply it's because I don't have any advice to give other than what may have already been posted. 

As a relative newbie on here I have learned so much just by reading posts, so much that I didn't know about and what to look out for, like Snoop & Missy's post last night and her dog being diagnosed with Pyometra, like learning about raw feeding, and many many other things I wouldn't have known about otherwise. So your post about Rupert and his problems are important, I didn't know about colic in dogs so again I have learned something.

Big huggies to you and Rupert, I hope you get on OK at the vets tomorrow and they can work out what is wrong and get him on the road to recovery. Please post tomorrow and let us know how he is.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Dogless said:


> It does make sense. I certainly read, but usually know less than other posters hence no replies, I'll think you'll find a few people on here do that.
> 
> I know how it feels when problems feel overwhelming as they just keep coming - as if the whole world is conspiring against you at times . Hopefully you will get to the bottom of Rupert's problems very soon.


Not got anything without Rupert, dunno what I'd do without him 



SixStar said:


> Yes, they're in Cambridge. They gave us lots of options to try with Riley and were an amazing help - really lovely people who really know their stuff. You can't be seen there thought without a vets referral, so it all depends on what your vet says - I'd certainly be inclined to ask for one outright though, they'll hopefully be able to give you fresh ideas and try different options to the ones your vets have already exhausted. Rileys problems were stomach/digestive issues too, so you'd probably see the same people as us - like I say, they're great.


I'm not familiar with what happened to Riley, did they find out what his problems were in the end or were they unable to? I can't remember reading about his issues, sorry 

Will mention it to the vets tomorrow, will post on here what they say I guess they might want to do x rays. If they do would you have those done or just ask straight up for a referral and get them to do nothing?



DirtyGertie said:


> Golden Shadow - I read, I care, sweetie, like so many others. I certainly don't think you post too much about Rupert. If I don't reply it's because I don't have any advice to give other than what may have already been posted.
> 
> As a relative newbie on here I have learned so much just by reading posts, so much that I didn't know about and what to look out for, like Snoop & Missy's post last night and her dog being diagnosed with Pyometra, like learning about raw feeding, and many many other things I wouldn't have known about otherwise. So your post about Rupert and his problems are important, I didn't know about colic in dogs so again I have learned something.
> 
> Big huggies to you and Rupert, I hope you get on OK at the vets tomorrow and they can work out what is wrong and get him on the road to recovery. Please post tomorrow and let us know how he is.


I'm the kind of sucker who doesn't mind if people post seemingly useless posts, no posts feels like people think I'm being stupid but don't want to say it etc. Lots of people on here are against meaningless posts though I know that. Thanks.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I'm not familiar with what happened to Riley, did they find out what his problems were in the end or were they unable to? I can't remember reading about his issues, sorry
> 
> Will mention it to the vets tomorrow, will post on here what they say I guess they might want to do x rays. If they do would you have those done or just ask straight up for a referral and get them to do nothing?
> .


If the vet wants to go x-rays I'd get them done, see if they show anything and what the vet has to say etc, but if they prove fruitless then I'd strongly push for a referral. If the vet has no intentions of doing x-rays then ask for a referral straight out.

I didn't use this forum when I was having the serious problems with Riley hence why you didn't read about it  I registered here ages ago but only starting really using the forum around Feb time.

Riley wouldn't eat, simple as. Was taken on as a rescue case at 18 months (greyhound who didn't make the grade for racing simply because he didn't have the energy for running due to lack of food consumption). In the year we had him, every imaginable test under the sun was done but no physical reason was ever found. Every blood/stool/urine test came back fine, x-rays always clear, explorative surgery found nothing, steroids didn't work, countless medications didn't work or he'd react to them, he had no interest in food and would often go a days with just a mouthful or so of food. On paper, he was fine and ''healthy'' - had plenty of energy and was a happy go lucky dog but things came to a head at christmas last year when he didn't eat between christmas and new year and things spiralled from there really. We were referred to Cambridge and they gave us a few more months with him but in the end we lost him to canine anorexia nervosa.

Not meaning to scare you as Riley and Rupert are clearly two very different cases - Riley was a very, very poorly dog - mentally as well as physically and Rupert is thankfully no where near as bad as that.


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

I really don't know what to say.
My Bella (touch wood) is Little Miss Healthy, apart from getting thorns stuck in her, cutting hee paws on glass, and getting ringworm

But My Nelson was never ever a healthy boy and he had serious problems. So I do really feel your pain. I hope you get to the bottom of it and that Rupert's problems end here!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> If the vet wants to go x-rays I'd get them done, see if they show anything and what the vet has to say etc, but if they prove fruitless then I'd strongly push for a referral. If the vet has no intentions of doing x-rays then ask for a referral straight out.
> 
> I didn't use this forum when I was having the serious problems with Riley hence why you didn't read about it  I registered here ages ago but only starting really using the forum around Feb time.
> 
> ...


Oh no, poor boy. I'm so sorry 

Will see what my vets say, I doubt they'd do x rays tomorrow and I don't fancy starving him just in case if I can keep him regular as food wise that's less to mess about with. I did think I wormed him with a different tablet on Weds but even so he has never had a reaction like that to something new even if it was that and number 2's etc totally fine.

Thanks for all your replies


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey Lily, I feel really helpless here knowing you are so worried. Try and hang in there until you see your lovely vet tomorrow. Any probs in the meantime you ring the emergency line, if only for peace of mind. Poor Rupert isnt well but he needs you to be strong to help him through. Go and have a nice soak and relax, recharge your batteries ready to stand strong again. I wish I lived nearer. I would pop round.
Tell the vet exactly how you feel tomorrow and that you want results now, no more pussyfooting around hoping this or that may do the trick. From what you've said, I'm sure he would be up for that.
Hope you get some answers v soon. 
I hope this doesnt come across as patronising - not my attention at all, I just dont know what else to say.
Lots of love 
Sandie x


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

I care Lily
About you and Rupert
I so want this raw feeding to work for him and its so hard to hear of him suffering


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

He was a really REALLY naughty boy last night which in my eyes confirms raw is better for him. I had Milo on my knee and Rupert kept trying to nick things out my handbag so I sent him out the room for a minute. When he came in he went straight for his toy and started to play. He was getting rough so I was telling him to be gentle and the little git got rougher and rougher on purpose til he yanked out some of the stuffing 

That lost him his toy and got him another timeout. Gave me puppy dog eyes for ages until I let him have a cuddle on my knee and turfed Milo off 

That's the kind of personality he has been lacking since last August and it's coming back on raw  was coming to the conclusion he had grown up and matured but he so hasn't he just needs his mojo back


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Have changed my mind how and want to see how he goes over the weekend 

They are open 24/7 there is always someone there to answer the phone and the vet I was down to see today whilst good isn't quite the same as the chap Rupert first saw (who recommended raw to me).

The guy I want to see is in high demand so earliest appt I could get was Weds but the way there were the cooked chicken bones and everything on Tues I feel like I want to give him a proper chance to try and settle and then he'll have had a few more days of introducing new things too? I'm confident this vet will have a recommendation of something I can give him when he colics too as he's a bit more 'out the box' than the other chap.

Rupert has got his naughty streak back which I haven't seen for months and months, and I think the vet I was down to see today will say take him off raw but I'd rather go down to part raw first then try without if it is indeed that causing the issues (don't think it is). But the guy I'm down to see on Weds I trust 100% and I've never felt like that about any vet before.

Its not a rash decision I thought about it loads last night and loads this morning and the way Rupert just perked up so much yesterday he seems very skewiff still. I think the vet we're now down to see would do me a referral in a heartbeat if I asked for one too. Maybe a weekend to straighten him out wont be so bad. I don't have to go anywhere so its not like he is going to get left on his own at all and luckily he isn't lame anymore today either


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Naughty streak back - sounds good to me .

Don't blame you for wanting to see the vet you trust so much - it's like that at our Drs surgery, only one out of the four there that I trust!

You've obviously given this so much thought and going with a gut feeling is always good.


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## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

I also have one vet I totally 100% trust. Unless it is an emergency I only ever go to him (for my dog of course, not myself!).


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Oh that sounds a lot more positive. Exactly what BB did for Heidi so if raw is doing it for Rupert, you cant argue. Totally agree he's been thro a lot foodwise recently and brilliant how you've thought it all thro and come up with waiting to see if this is the start of something good. x


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Great news, just careful what you wish for...you'll be posting about his naughtiness driving you mad in no time at all hopefully .


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Had some tinned pilchards and an egg for dinner yesterday! He has had eggs before but just doesn't like breaking them with his teeth as you can see, he'd been running about for at least 5 mins with it all excited 

YouTube - ‪Egg for din dins‬‏


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Ah bless him, he's such a sweetie. 

Jake and Dylan won't break eggs either, they'll just lick them and whine and whimper until I crack them  Blue tries to be soft mouthed and carry them but always fails and ends up with all egg dribbling out his gob, he'd never make a gundog bless him!!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Ah bless him, he's such a sweetie.
> 
> Jake and Dylan won't break eggs either, they'll just lick them and whine and whimper until I crack them  Blue tries to be soft mouthed and carry them but always fails and ends up with all egg dribbling out his gob, he'd never make a gundog bless him!!


Hahaha bless him that's so cute! In the past Rupert used to end up batting them with his paw I think. I got a bit bored of waiting so when he next picked it up to carry it off I got him to drop it and cracked it open for him, his eyes lit right up


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

willow wont crack one either  funny pups


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Back from the vets.

He's got some Protexin Pro Fibre which is 19% fibre and some Buscopan 10mg tablets as the Zantac seems to be not much good. Vet says he really wants to find out if the Buscopan helps so every time he even gets a twinge give him one. If he's very bad I can give him two. He needs 15mg for his size but the tabs are 10mg and unsplittable you see.

He said it sounds like he has IBS and he suspects he does have an allergy or intolerance which may well tie up with his past ear problems. But he is pretty sure its something he is eating and his body is just saying no no no when its in his stomach. He said fibre should help his digestion anyway and there just isn't much fibre in most commercial foods and that it can be limited in raw too.

He didn't say anything negative about raw whatsoever, said the only thing is if we were to try and find out what is causing the problem an elimination diet may be a way to try but that its a type of dry food with only one protein source and does this and this etc I wasn't paying much attention to it because I just know Rupert being the dog he is would find the odd thing to scavenge and wreck it being an elimination diet 

So I mentioned the allergy testing again and he said yes, but it is very expensive. We're talking the blood allergy test as that's meant to be better for foody problems, bless him I think the vet thinks I'm really poor he said it can be £300 all in but to be honest I don't think that's too bad, could be more 

I really love that vet  I don't feel like he rips me off or anything, its like he's trying to look after my finances himself :lol:

The whole thing cost me £45.55 for a consultation, 800g Pro Fibre and 20 x 10mg Buscopan tabs. Charged it as a repeat consult so that was half price and including VAT the Pro Fibre was only £17.33 which is about £2.70 more expensive than online but I'd have to pay postage online anyway.

Very happy bunny, I love that man :001_wub:


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Excellent!!!! Definately sounds like you are getting somewhere (as well as in lurve lol).
So are you going to try an elimination of any kind to try and find the culprit and hopefully dispense with the need for meds - or the blood test ??

Have you heard of Crossgates Farm Bioenergetics? They do this sort of thing from a hair I believe -just a random thought as usual x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Excellent!!!! Definately sounds like you are getting somewhere (as well as in lurve lol).
> So are you going to try an elimination of any kind to try and find the culprit and hopefully dispense with the need for meds - or the blood test ??


If he goes OK with the fibre I will ask the vet what to do next lol! I imagine he will say try giving the fibre every other day, and decrease it but if he gets attacks up it.

If he is getting the problems still then I think I will opt for blood test. For him I feel its too difficult to do an elimination diet, the way some git chucked cooked chicken bones in our garden etc 

At the minute the only treat he gets its carrot and the vet said it wouldn't be that.

That's a point, have you got any ideas of natural sort of treats I could give him like carrot but other fruit/veg?? He's off dairy altogether right now, not even any goats milk or Primula cheese and literally no treats except carrot, need to think up some others to give him...


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

If you are giving him tripe, you could perhaps dry some of that in the oven to make treats.
Apple, blueberries, banana - sorry brain has gone blank now.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I thought of apple and banana, not yet tried them though can't help but think they'll go off/brown etc real quick? Don't want to OD him on carrot is all 

Went to the butchers this morning. The rabbit mince from Scott whilst good, I think as it has bone in just like the chicken mince Rupert could do with a bit more meat and a bit less bone. Its a bit expensive at £3.50 per packet (rabbit gutted and cut into six pieces) but I might just use one every two or three weeks. Along side his chicken wings I could do him about three evening meals with that rabbit I reckon, whereas the rabbit mince and chicken wings has a little much bone I think...

They only had diddy chicken wings but they will do until next week when I get some more, I forgot to go on Weds


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Forgot to say how he's getting on in general 

He's doing really good, introducing something new to him every other day has worked fantastically so far. He is now on chicken wings, chicken mince, rabbit mince, green tripe, pilchards in tomato sauce and raw egg. Giving him today on tripe for brekky and tonight on chicken wings and rabbit mince, then will try him with a little offal tomorrow, or maybe just some heart.

In the next two weeks hopefully he should be having everything in the right proportion


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

yay good to hear :thumbup: 
I'm worried mine aren't going to have enough variety of meat this month.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

babycham2002 said:


> yay good to hear :thumbup:
> I'm worried mine aren't going to have enough variety of meat this month.


How come?

Does variety matter much anyway?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I have definitely got my cheeky/naughty dog back. Bugger maturing into an adult 

He was desperate that he was going to fetch me a rabbit yesterday, thankfully didn't because I had him on his lunge line! He's started coming up and pestering me if he wants something, going to get his slip lead from the front door as he wants to play tug, climbing on my knee if he wants another walk, thrashing Milo outside when they play and its scarey how excited he is to get in the back of the car and go walkies now :001_wub:

He had some liver yesterday and today, so far so good! Got him some tinned sardines/mackerel in tomato sauce to try as well as the pilchards. As they're cooked he gets them, a raw egg and some carrot. Its a good small meal if he's had a big chunk of lamb bone or something in the morning though and he LOVES his fish. I've not yet seen anything remotely cheap in Morrisons to want to buy raw fish just yet.

I am very impressed though, he had a colicky twinge on 2nd June but since then nothing at all, so fingers crossed this Pro Texin stuff seems to be doing the job too! Downside is that's not hugely cheap for the amount he needs but can't have everything I suppose.

He's well and truly got his spring back in his step, he's not been like this since summer 2010


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Excellent news!!! Just wondering - do you think he would have been ok on what you were feeding before if he had the protexin??

Not knocking raw, I fully apprecaited it's success in lots of dogs with problems, just curious


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Excellent news!!! Just wondering - do you think he would have been ok on what you were feeding before if he had the protexin??
> 
> Not knocking raw, I fully apprecaited it's success in lots of dogs with problems, just curious


I don't reckon so, I was seeing changes in his character a week into raw and it was getting more so and more so, I think its the extra protein? On high protein kibbles he just got the squits (Orijen) or started licking walls and trying to eat coal/clay (Applaws) 

Its a bit of a weird one.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> I don't reckon so, I was seeing changes in his character a week into raw and it was getting more so and more so, I think its the extra protein? On high protein kibbles he just got the squits (Orijen) or started licking walls and trying to eat coal/clay (Applaws)
> 
> Its a bit of a weird one.


Doesnt matter how weird. Weirder the better if it's doing the trick


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

wow Thats fantastic lily. He sounds like his old self again! I'm so pleased for you both.

sorry i didn't see your reply earlier on variety. No it was just i missed the lamb bones accidently off my order with Scott. So their meaty meals this month will mainly consist of chicken.
At the time didn't have much money to buy extras from shops but i have managed to buy a load of trotters and pork ribs so i feel better about it now 
that rabbit for 3.50 is very good value. I asked at butchers yesterday and it was 10!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I have been naught not updating! 

Rupert is doing GOOD! Current meal plan is:










Near enough anyway! Not on the full amount of liver or kidney yet though.

Today I have decided I may well get some blocks done ready from Darlings because in winter time I am going to struggle time wise and with butchering if its very cold outside (Mum wont let me do it inside haha) 

I will still use TDFC for things like tripe, lamb bones and heart I would think, just need to try and get a balance.

Rupert's colic episodes seem to have stopped but he has now had his blood allergy tests. May need to wait up to 6 weeks for results and I fear he may be allergic to basic meats and am desperate to keep him on raw, so fingers crossed its nothing meaty!!

On a side note! I thought BARF was Bones And Raw Food. Apparently its Biologically Appropriate Raw Food


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## alyssa_liss (May 4, 2009)

just got upto date with this  sounds good , glad he is doing ok now. think ill start with a few chicken wings


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## dvnbiker (Dec 2, 2009)

Only thing I would say about using Darlings is get a quote first - it is soooo expensive.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

alyssa_liss said:


> just got upto date with this  sounds good , glad he is doing ok now. think ill start with a few chicken wings


Let us know how you go 



dvnbiker said:


> Only thing I would say about using Darlings is get a quote first - it is soooo expensive.


Yeah haha! I got a quote of £61 ish including delivery for nearly 16kgs. I doubt I would feed just Darlings which would dilute it a bit though. I want to give Rupes green tripe still and probably heart, Darlings is 33% bone and that'd be too much for him etc.

So I'd probably just give him Darlings for dinner and something else for breakfast I reckon, plus it'd give him a bit of variety that way but makes it more convenient for me with a bit less butchering for winter and the like


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## dvnbiker (Dec 2, 2009)

Have you looked at Natural Instinct? They always have good reports although I have only ever used their bones although considering ordering some to take to a week show I have in August as they are better sealed than the mince I order.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

dvnbiker said:


> Have you looked at Natural Instinct? They always have good reports although I have only ever used their bones although considering ordering some to take to a week show I have in August as they are better sealed than the mince I order.


I have to say I can't remember, I will have a look at them later on tonight, thanks


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Rupert had his first lamb bone today. He LOVED it, wouldn't have traded it for the world mind 

I reckon once he has them once or twice a week he wont be as bothered, but I'm glad I split the big one in half instead of giving the whole thing and taking half away, he never would have let me :lol:

Here he is, took him a good 20 mins! Weighed over 1kg and he normally gets 600g ish in a day, can physically see he looks fatter since eating it :001_tongue:


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## rawdogs (Nov 27, 2008)

He is a very lucky boy,can,t remember the last time mine had a chunk of lamb like that,its just too expensive now,i do get small packs of ribs from morrisons once in a whle that they sell as stock bones,but there is very little meat on them.
Looks like he really enjoyed that:001_tongue:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

rawdogs said:


> He is a very lucky boy,can,t remember the last time mine had a chunk of lamb like that,its just too expensive now,i do get small packs of ribs from morrisons once in a whle that they sell as stock bones,but there is very little meat on them.
> Looks like he really enjoyed that:001_tongue:


Yeah that and his tin of fish are his 'treat dinners' each week I think..! Its £1/lb where I get the lamb bones from, that is half of one the other half is in the fridge for another day. I cut some of the fat off as he could do without too much extra fat 

Luckily with the one dog its not too costly on the lamb bone front.


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