# Absolutely gobsmacked and need advice !!



## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Hi there

Wondered if anyone can advise on a VERY VERY strange situation.

I took my Birman into the vets today to be neutered, after a few hours I got a phone call to say she was pregnant.

Now Nala is an indoor only cat and has NEVER been outside in her life, I also have no cat flap, no open windows etc. so there is no way any male cat has come indoors either.

She does live with two male cats, one of which was neutered 2 1/2 years ago and the other was neutered 6 months ago.

As she never goes out one of these HAS to be the father but how is this possible??

Their testicles were removed, has anyone ever known a cat to be fertile after this?

I know they are fertile for a while but not months afterwards surely, they say she is 100% pregnant, I was convinced they made a mistake as I just can't see how. They think she is about 4 weeks into it.

I have asked them to not neuter but as they had already put her under anesthetic and opened her up before realising there is a chance the kittens may not survive now.

I am so shocked, I just cannot understand how this has hapened!


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Could somebody else of let her out by accident maybe and not told you?


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

......oh my god !!!! i bet your in shock, you poor thing. they have got the right cat havent they, you dont think they have muddled her up with a pregnant cat in the vets ???????  fingers crossed the kittens are ok.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Oh dear what a situation for you....hope the kitties are ok, will this cause probs with the birth if they've already opened her up? The scar I mean....xx


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

They have definately got the right cat yes, she is the only Birman in there and there is no way anyone has let her out.

She is scared stiff of the outdoors and if the front door opens she runs and hides, plus it's just me and my partner here who is as shocked as I am.

We are about to go and pick her up now.

I wish they could say what colour they are so we can establish if any of the males are still fertile.

I am taking them both down with me as well so they can check them.

It's just impossible, I can't believe it.

Really hoping the babies make it now and feel really guilty for not noticing anything, the vet says they don't have much chance sadly.

If I had of known then I wouldn't have taken her for neutering and they would have been fine, how can this of happened?


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> Oh dear what a situation for you....hope the kitties are ok, will this cause probs with the birth if they've already opened her up? The scar I mean....xx


I really don't know. The kittens don't have much chance now sadly but we are hoping anyway.

She had a litter last year that were born premature, she needed a c-section and all the kittens died sadly. This is why we were neutering her as she wasn't very good as a breeding female.


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## cherrie_b (Dec 14, 2008)

Oh nooo! I hope they do survive! Sending good thoughts your way! 

Actually, my friend is an Animal Science lecturer at Myerscough college near Preston and when I got Felix neutered she said that they can stay fertile for upto 4 months in some cases. It wasn't a problem for me as both females in the house were spayed long ago. But that is probably your answer. xx


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

OMG :scared: Thats a shock!

I really hope they survive,sending postive vibes your way.

Do your males not spray? Only saying that because Horris sprayed like crazy before he got his balls chopped off.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Cat_Crazy said:


> They have definately got the right cat yes, she is the only Birman in there and there is no way anyone has let her out.
> 
> She is scared stiff of the outdoors and if the front door opens she runs and hides, plus it's just me and my partner here who is as shocked as I am.
> 
> ...


dont beat yourself up about it, you didnt know she was pregnant, its so sad that the kittens may not make it, but please dont blame yourself,sending you a big "HUG " and praying that alll goes well.xxxxxxx


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Males can be fertile for 4 months !!! 

The vet told me 2-3 weeks.

She is 4 weeks pregnant and he was neutered 6 months ago so he if he is the father then he imprenated her 5 months after neutering, that seems a little un-reasonable and I just can't see it happening.

Plus we would have noticed them mating etc. as they are both house cats.

He dosn't spray and never has, he was neutered at 6 months old as was my other male so they were both neutered before they began spraying and they have never shown signs of being sexually active.

If one of them was fertile I would have expected the other females pregnant as well but had them all neutered within the last few months except for Mia who is off to be scanned today.

Nala (the pregnant one) hasn't even been in season for gods sake! Her last season was October last year and nothing since, we were originally planning on taking her to stud and letting her have another litter so was waiting for her season to come, however we later changed our minds and decided to neuter her.


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## tylow (Feb 11, 2009)

What an awful situation  Is it not a bit strange the vet didn't notice something before they opened her up at 4weeks? I really hope the kitts survive and your wee cat is ok bless her


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## fifibelle (Jan 7, 2010)

OMG how confusing for you, I really hope everything ends up ok. It must have been a big shock, sending lots of kitty hugs your way


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## MichelleA (Aug 27, 2009)

it could be that the nuetering of one of your other cats has not worked.Don't men who have had the snip have to have a test to make sure it has been successful


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## fifibelle (Jan 7, 2010)

MichelleA said:


> it could be that the nuetering of one of your other cats has not worked.Don't men who have had the snip have to have a test to make sure it has been successful


They remove cats testes though dont they? where as in humans they just cut or clamp the tubes!


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Well Im glad you havent had to go through male spraying yuk!

I was told four months as well I believe by someone on here. As we had Horris neutured in Sept. And Soda came into heat I believe shortly after and even though Horris was neutured he'd still try and jump her bones.

Actually he still tries to jump her bones :confused1: Like the other day, he grab her by the kneck and tried to "postion" himself. Well he ended out on his butt from my room.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Gosh, what a horrible situation, I would be gutted. I can't see though that this is your fault. Assuming there is no way she can have been let out (ie. someone in your family not telling you!) or that any other tom can have got in, it seems your neutered boy has set some sort of record!

I do hope the babies will be OK but, as you say, I would not be optimistic. Years ago I had a queen with a very nasty abscess almost behind her eye which needed surgery, she was 5 weeks pregnant. The choice was risking the kittens or losing the eye. The vet said the kittens should be OK. They weren't, she miscarried the whole litter within a day or so :frown: - so I guess you should know either way soon.

WHY does everyone else have functional boys and yet neither of my two seem to have worked it out at ten months and 19 months?!!

Liz


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## cherrie_b (Dec 14, 2008)

Cat_Crazy said:


> Males can be fertile for 4 months !!!
> 
> The vet told me 2-3 weeks.
> 
> ...


Well...from what she said, removing the testes will not remove all their hormones in the body instantly. Therefore males MAY spray still...but not to the extent they would have before the operation. Obviously, I am no vet but if she DEFINITELY hasn't been let out and hasn't come into contact with any other cats, then maybe he is the father. Also, I seem to remember reading that females cats are able to "save" their fertilised eggs or the sperm (I can't rightly remember) for a later date.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

How awful for you and her  Bit confused... did I read that you'd said the vet thought her about 4 weeks pregnant? If so, then very likely couldn't be the following.... but a cat breeder friend of mine had a girl at the vet for spaying and was told when she collected her that the cat had been pregnant. This was 100% impossible because the girl had been in a cat pen for the preceeding weeks; my friend did not have a stud on the premises at the time and the girl had certainly never escaped from her run, nor was it possible that any stray tom had gotten into her pen.

She rang to speak with the very experienced head vet at the practice who, incidentally, is a cat specialist. It turned out that what the (fairly young and inexperienced) vet who performed the spay had actually seen were cysts - bearing in mind she didn't obviously, incise through the horns of the uterus to check - which she mistook for conceptual swellings - i.e. a very early pregnancy.

I think it highly unlikely that your male cat would have been fertile that long after being neutered.


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Bit of an update for you all.

I picked Nala up and took her to another vets who checked her over and said she is definately NOT PREGNANT !!

They opened her up again to spay her and found that she had a single ovarian cyst, that according to the vet was CLEARLY a cyst and not a kitten.

I am so annoyed at the first vet, they told me she was 100% pregnant and so I asked them not to spay, they charged me £51 for the anesthetic they had already given her and it cost me £84 at the other vets for a check-up and spay.

If the vet had of realised it was a cyst and not a pregnancy the first time round it would have saved a lot of money and stopped Nala having to be opened up twice. 

I think I am DEFINATELY changing vets now.

I am relieved she is not pregnant and has now been spayed but annoyed we had to have all this hassle, how can a vet not tell the difference when they have her opened up in front of them?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

OMG can't believe the first vet got it so wrong! I'm glad it's all been sorted now!

Definitely change vets, what an absolute waste of space they are!


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Gosh I am gobsmacked.

Poor Nala going through 2 anaethestics and poor you and your partner for the shock and an awful day.

And they charged you too?? That is disgusting. Not only did the vet make a dispictable error, they had had audacity to charge you??

Not only would I change vets I would also complain.

The dangers of 1 anaethestic is bad enough let alone 2, 1 on top of the other.

Thank god she is ok and things have turned out fine but I would still complain.


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## fifibelle (Jan 7, 2010)

Omg how horrible for you and Nala all that extra stress and for nothing. Im glad you have found a vet that seem to know what they are doing and hope that you have made it very clear to the original vet why you are changing vets.
I hope Nala is ok and has a speedy recovery!


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

Tell me about it!

I have been worrying all day thinking how on earth is she pregnant, worrying that my male was still fertile after neutering and worrying that Mia may also be pregnant if that is the case.

I thought it was strange that they couldn't tell BEFORE they opened her up and that her nipples are not pink and swollen like you would expect when 4 weeks pregnant.

I wish I hadn't of paid the first vet now as I would have argued it, I have paid for their incompetance!


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## tagalong (Jan 28, 2010)

Make a proper complaint firstly to the Practice Manager and then to the RCVS -look on their webpage for details how to go about it -this is a bad mistake and needs looking into .
(It is worth doing -it will be taken seriously I worked with my Vet and learnt a lot about practices and procedures )


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

hmmm it didnt post my reply 

But in short

- Stupied stupied stupied vets  they must be blind.

- Sending good wishes and vibes to Nala for a speedy recovery

- Get some wine or something for you and your partner

- And defiently raise hell at that vets


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## fifibelle (Jan 7, 2010)

Sorry me again, this is really playing on my mind I keep thinking thank god you went to another vets and thank god it was only a cyst, what if it had have been cancer and you had have waited 5 weeks for kittens that never came, I know this is unlikely but if you were someone who maybe knew nothing of cat breeding this is possible...you could have lost your cat, not to complications of anethesia, or infection but a totally incompetant vets misdiagnosis. Grrrrrr make sure you make yourself heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

fifibelle said:


> Sorry me again, this is really playing on my mind I keep thinking thank god you went to another vets and thank god it was only a cyst, what if it had have been cancer and you had have waited 5 weeks for kittens that never came, I know this is unlikely but if you were someone who maybe knew nothing of cat breeding this is possible...you could have lost your cat, not to complications of anethesia, or infection but a totally incompetant vets misdiagnosis. Grrrrrr make sure you make yourself heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Exactly what I was thinking...I would put forward a complaint...how professional is this vet who doesn't know a cyst from a pregnancy ...I'd ask for a refund.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Glad it all ended okay and that it was just cysts. Amazed and somewhat perturbed however that you managed to get a vet to operate late afternoon on the same day AND who felt it okay for her to undergo two anaesthetics!


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

Glad she is ok. wishes for a speedy recovery for Nala.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

tagalong said:


> Make a proper complaint firstly to the Practice Manager and then to the RCVS -look on their webpage for details how to go about it -this is a bad mistake and needs looking into .
> (It is worth doing -it will be taken seriously I worked with my Vet and learnt a lot about practices and procedures )


totally agree, complain, ...you wouldnt want another owner to go through this, so make a complaint, stupid vet !!!!!! Glad all went well in the end,xxx


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## London Dogwalker (Oct 27, 2009)

Cat_Crazy said:


> Bit of an update for you all.
> 
> I picked Nala up and took her to another vets who checked her over and said she is definately NOT PREGNANT !!
> 
> ...


 shocking!

I would speak to the first vets before you make a complaint and see how they handle it, if you're happy with their response and a refund then that's that, if they start kicking up a stink about it go straight to RCVS. f*ck em.


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

I have made a complaint to the practice manager at the first vets, think I may as well of spoke to her in Chinese for all she listened.

She simply said that it was my decission to stop the spay and so any consequences relating to that decission is my responsibility.

I replied, yes I did stop the spay but only because your vet told me she was without a doubt 100% pregnant and that turned outt o be false information, if I had of been told that there was a chance it was something else then I would have been confident enough that she could not have been pregnant to say yes go ahead and spay.

They did not give me any other option but pregnancy and I did not want to abort. She also explined that a cyst and a kitten look exactly the same in the womb and even an experianced senior vet would not be able to tell the difference unless it was taken out and as I had asked them not to abort they did not do this.

I am still annoyed and feel that they should have known, especially after my insisting she could not be pregnant but they kept saying 'well she is so she must have got out without you knowing'. I won't be using them again and am just happy it's all over with now.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Cat_Crazy said:


> I have made a complaint to the practice manager at the first vets, think I may as well of spoke to her in Chinese for all she listened.
> 
> She simply said that it was my decission to stop the spay and so any consequences relating to that decission is my responsibility.
> 
> ...


That's lovely. As if somehow it's your fault that their vet messed up and you opted to keep what he told you were kittens. I suppose the "customer is always right" philosophy doesn't really apply to medical care, but still, you were given false information, you were worried about your beloved pet, and she wants to make you feel like you did something stupid--the nerve of some people!

At least Nala is okay and hopefully not too scarred from all the bad experiences.


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## Clare Ferris (Nov 26, 2009)

Cat_Crazy said:


> Bit of an update for you all.
> 
> I picked Nala up and took her to another vets who checked her over and said she is definately NOT PREGNANT !!
> 
> ...


only just seen this thread but after reading the first page I did wonder if they had got the pregnancy thing right and could it have been a pyometra? as I found it hard to believe a male could get a cat pregnant 5 months down the line? so it turns out it was an ovarian cyst. I do not understand how this can be confused with a foetus as the cyst would be on the ovary not in a uterine horn, seems very strange and worrying how they could get the two mixed up. plus surely at 4 weeks there would have been some external signs? poor cat and poor you for having to go through that I would definately complain to practice manager and if they fail to refund you take it to the rcvs. it is incompetance on their part. Hope your kitty is ok. not ideal having two anaesthetics in a short space of time but she should recover fine


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