# Cat Food, want to know what you are feeding your cat?



## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Its so scary when you read articles about what really goes into the food we feed our cats. I have read alot of hideous information on cat food and have been horrified at what they really put into some of the most popular brands of cat food.

Makesure you read the ingredients!

What you should look at is 
NO corn NO gluten NO soya NO beet NO garlic NO onion NO wheat NO dairy.
YOU MUST HAVE TAURINE in there whether it is added or natural!!!! If there is a high natural chicken content including offal you will probably have enough occurance naturally.

Very interesting read

Cat Food Uncovered

Toxic Food  very scary

Toxic Foods


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

I feed royal canin to my lot,i would feed orijen but i think that would bankrupt us!!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Betz was on Royal Canin, a friend who has done alot of research on cat food pointed out she was on bad food (she has a very delicate tum and was having loose stools)

Royal Canin

Ingredients: Chicken meal, chicken fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid), rice, *corn gluten meal, corn,* chicken, *natural chicken flavor(why if there is enough real chicken in there??), **wheat gluten, beet pulp *(sugar removed), dried brewers yeast, salmon oil, dried egg powder, soya oil, pea fiber, fructo-oligosaccharides, potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, sodium silico aluminate, DL-methionine, choline chloride, L-lysine, sodium chloride, sodium tripolyphosphate, taurine, Vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C*), niacin, biotin, riboflavin (vitamin B2), d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid], Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate]. 
correct me if I am wrong anyone!!
After speaking to a few manufacturers, I have discovered that if a product has a highenough meat content, then Taurine should not need to be added as it will occur naturally as it would in the wild.Taurine is essential to a cats well being. Depending on where you are there should be a variety of good wholesome foods. A cat living naturally in the wild would have a mainly carnivorous diet and would not eat corn and grain products. Most of which are really bad for the cats intestinal tract.
Anything with corn in is not what I would call a quality food. Corn and wheat are used as cheap fillers so they have to put less of the more expensive ingredients in and can still charge a premium product price.

Its hard to find decent food but organic human grade quality kibble. There are stores that buy it in now and it prices up cheaper than all the regularly bought foods science hills, iams royal canin etc, DO NOT touch anything by whiskas or purina as they are made from animal derivatives.

My friend pointed me in the direction of these:
Wet food I use:
Natures menu. Find your nearest Natures Menu Natural Pet Food Stockists
this link requests your postcode to show your nearest stockist. this is a good food
Tescos finest is good too.

for dry food
OrganiPets Organic Pet Food


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

Just about to switch to Orijen, as soon as it's delivered thanks to advice on here, mainly from AJ


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

crofty said:


> Royal Canin
> 
> Ingredients: Chicken meal, chicken fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid), rice, *corn gluten meal, corn,* chicken, *natural chicken flavor(why if there is enough real chicken in there??), **wheat gluten, beet pulp *(sugar removed), dried brewers yeast, salmon oil, dried egg powder, soya oil, pea fiber, fructo-oligosaccharides, potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, sodium silico aluminate, DL-methionine, choline chloride, L-lysine, sodium chloride, sodium tripolyphosphate, taurine, Vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C*), niacin, biotin, riboflavin (vitamin B2), d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid], Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate].


Glad you posted that, I've not been able to find an ingredients list for Royal Canin (too lazy to go down the pet shop). But I was led to believe it was a good food. Clearly from the ingredients it's not!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Yes it is supposed to be a good food, to be honest was surprised when i looked at the ingredients  Im off to buy some orijens!!


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

OMG I thought Royal Canin were good!

How much can I expect to pay for Orijen?


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

Orijen is just under £30 for 7kg! It's only available from zooplus.co.uk


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Orijen is just under £30 for 7kg! It's only available from zooplus.co.uk


I've just bought some kitten food from there, Almo Nature.. but prefer to give him mostly dry food so might try out that Orijen.. I'm spending more money on Alfie than myself!


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

crofty said:


> Yes it is supposed to be a good food, to be honest was surprised when i looked at the ingredients  Im off to buy some orijens!!


Can't beat Orijen, do you know anywhere other than zooplus.co.uk that sell it?

I've just enquired about them selling the Fresh Fish variety that was introduced in January as they only have the standard variety at the moment.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

There is only one other website but its more expensive, zzoplus has sold out of 7kg bag which works out quite cheap, more being delivered 6/5/08 have bought the smaller bag.

I still prefer wet food to dry to be honest but i give her abit of both which is what she is used to.


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

crofty said:


> There is only one other website but its more expensive, zzoplus has sold out of 7kg bag which works out quite cheap, more being delivered 6/5/08 have bought the smaller bag.
> 
> I still prefer wet food to dry to be honest but i give her abit of both which is what she is used to.


What wet food do you feed? I give mine raw meat instead of cans/pouches. 

What's the other website for Orijen?


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

I'm very disapointed, just got royal canin baby 34 on the post today

I got the ingredients for baby 34 from the Australian website (uk doesn't have them listed)

INGREDIENTS: Chicken meal, rice, corn gluten meal, corn, chicken fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid), chicken, dried egg powder, natural chicken flavor, pea fiber, beet pulp, salmon oil, dried brewers yeast, sodium silico aluminate, potassium chloride, chicory extract, choline chloride, sodium chloride, L-lysine, brewers yeast extract (Saccharomyces cerevisiae
fermentation solubles), calcium carbonate, sodium tripolyphosphate, taurine, Vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C*), niacin, biotin, riboflavin (vitamin B2), d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, folicacid, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement], Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], marigold extract.

But on the packaging i got it's slightly differentit doesn't have corn i wonder if they make it different depending on the country. According to the article on the first post the legislation in europe is more strict 

ingredients from my packaging:

dehydrated poultry meat (not meal) , animal fats, rice, vegetable protein isolate, maize flour, hydrolysed animal proteins, vegetable fibres, yeasts, beet pulp, L-lysine, soya oil, fish oil, minerals, fruto-oligo-saccharids, egg powder, yeast extract, L-carnitine.

Protein 34% - fat 25% - Ash 6.7% - fiber 2%

still not great

So is orijen the only good cat food in the market?


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Orijen is just under £30 for 7kg! It's only available from zooplus.co.uk


How long does 7kg for 1 cat?


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Well 10kg does my lot for just short of 2 weeks, so 7kg will prob last your one a lifetime and go stale after being open for a while


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Well 10kg does my lot for just short of 2 weeks, so 7kg will prob last your one a lifetime and go stale after being open for a while


so, the 2.5kg might be enough will it last a month if i give him a 
65g tin applaws a day as well?


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I would certainly think so


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Or get two lots of 2.5kg and just open one. It wont go stale until its opened  or an airtight container would be good too


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

Now i'm very confused, the article it says that cats shouldn't eat vegetables but that's one of orijen's main ingredients


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Or get two lots of 2.5kg and just open one. It wont go stale until its opened  or an airtight container would be good too


Good idea, thank you


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Veg doesn't harm them.. in the wild cats eat grass and other greens.


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

bee112 said:


> Veg doesn't harm them.. in the wild cats eat grass and other greens.


Yes, i guess they do

I'm going to order only orijen from now on, i hope he likes it


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

I've got a big bag of Royal Canin which he seems to enjoy so will finish that then get him onto the Orijen stuff.. looks good.

Also just bought a multi pack of Almo Nature wet food which looks good! I like to give him some wet food as well as dry as he really enjoys it.


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

...i just got some baby 34 royal canin as well, but it's only a small pack so i'll give him that for now but will definitly change to orijen 

I've also got him some applaws tins.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

I wanted to get some Applaws food but the kitten one is sold out!


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

Is there a kitten one???? i just got the normal one  it should be ok, it's mainly just chicken


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

trish1200 said:


> Now i'm very confused, the article it says that cats shouldn't eat vegetables but that's one of orijen's main ingredients


Fruit and vegetables aren't harmful to cats, but they aren't one of Orijens main ingredients either. Fruit, vegetables and botanicals make up 25% or less of the food. 

From the foods I've seen Orijen is by far the best available but that doesn't detract from the fact that cats simply aren't designed to eat cooked/processed foods. 

Just look inside a cats mouth, does it look like their jaws and teeth are made to eat little biscuits?


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Fruit and vegetables aren't harmful to cats, but they aren't one of Orijens main ingredients either. Fruit, vegetables and botanicals make up 25% or less of the food.
> 
> From the foods I've seen Orijen is by far the best available but that doesn't detract from the fact that cats simply aren't designed to eat cooked/processed foods.
> 
> Just look inside a cats mouth, does it look like their jaws and teeth are made to eat little biscuits?


LOL it tought about giving him oreos


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

trish1200 said:


> LOL it tought about giving him oreos


LOL, probably be better for him than whiskers! 

If I could I would feed mine a all raw diet but they just won't eat bones, the problem with outdoor cats is if you don't feed them they'll find someone else who will, so it's no good giving them that or nothing!  Since I can't feed them all raw I see Orijen as the next best thing!


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

So is Orijen wet or dry food?


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

bee112 said:


> So is Orijen wet or dry food?


Orijen is dry food.


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

Dry .....


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> LOL, probably be better for him than whiskers!
> 
> If I could I would feed mine a all raw diet but they just won't eat bones, the problem with outdoor cats is if you don't feed them they'll find someone else who will, so it's no good giving them that or nothing!  Since I can't feed them all raw I see Orijen as the next best thing!


Xito will be indoors all the time so i'll be in control of his diet


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

trish1200 said:


> Xito will be indoors all the time so i'll be in control of his diet


If I had indoor cats I'd be feeding them raw!


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> If I had indoor cats I'd be feeding them raw!


just plain raw?


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

trish1200 said:


> just plain raw?


How'd you mean?


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Its great if you can give raw diet and all the nutrients they need but im too scared and Betz is 3 years old and used to pouches. I feed her natures Menu (70% meat).

The other website is

heimtierzentrum.de - Orijen Importeur


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## Coraline (Apr 22, 2008)

AJ, if you're having problems getting your cats to eat bones it may be worth looking into this cat food: The Feline Future Cat Food Company

It's a powder that you mix with water, raw meat and liver - no bones needed.

Just thought you might be interested


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

sorry didn't explain myself. Do you give them just raw meat on it's own straight from the supermarket?


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Its better to get meat from a butcher so it hasnt been altered at all, you must freeze it first then defrost it for them.


Whatever you do, if you are going to change your cats diet it must be a gradual change over several weeks so not to upset their tums. Even with dry food.


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

Coraline said:


> AJ, if you're having problems getting your cats to eat bones it may be worth looking into this cat food: The Feline Future Cat Food Company
> 
> It's a powder that you mix with water, raw meat and liver - no bones needed.
> 
> Just thought you might be interested


Thanks, I will have a look but I'm not into supplements, will have a look and see what it is though!


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

I'm sorry if the question is silly but why is raw better than cooked? I understand that it might be more natural to them, but aren't the nutrients and protein levels the same?


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

You don't have to freeze it first but I would advise it to begin with until the cat has built up an immune system. We freeze all the meat for our cats because they have very weak immune systems due to their poor start in life and I would advise anyone to freeze meats when they first start but it is not necessary after they have built up their immune system.

I feed my dogs fresh raw meat as often as possible.


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

trish1200 said:


> I'm sorry if the question is silly but why is raw better than cooked? I understand that it might be more natural to them, but aren't the nutrients and protein levels the same?


No the molecular structure of foods is altered by cooking making it less digestable for cats. 

Fresh raw is the best way to feed once the cat has built up a solid immune system as it provides the most natural nutrients.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

AJ, what do you do for a living? your very knowledgeble


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> No the molecular structure of foods is altered by cooking making it less digestable for cats.
> 
> Fresh raw is the best way to feed once the cat has built up a solid immune system as it provides the most natural nutrients.


i get it now  thanks

...and is the raw meat enough or need to supplement it?


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

trish1200 said:


> i get it now  thanks
> 
> ...and is the raw meat enough or need to supplement it?


If you feed a balanced raw diet there is no need to supplement! When I say balanced a mean it in a very rough and long term way. Cat's dont naturally eat a balanced diet every day!

I'm a pet sitter but I have become obsessed about dog and cat nutrition recently after finding out I was feeding them all absolute crap! Looked on my rabbits food today and even that has bloody additives in it!


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

I'm so happy that i've found this forum and i'm learning before i get my kitten home


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

found this http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/documents/ORIJEN_White_paper.pdf on the orijen website, quite a good read


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

trish1200 said:


> I'm so happy that i've found this forum


Me too, I've learnt loads coming on here!


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

crofty said:


> Betz was on Royal Canin, this is what i found through researching food (she has a very delicate tum and was having loose stools)
> 
> Royal Canin
> 
> ...


Hi this is whats on royal canin kitten 34..
dehydrated poultry meat,rice,animal fats,maize gluten,maize, animal proteins,hydrolysed animal proteins,vegetable fibres,beet pulp,soya oil,minerals,l-lysine,egg pwder,yeast,fish oil,fructo-oligo-saccharides,hydrolysed yeast extract(rich in mannan-oligo-saccharides)sodium phosphate,taurine,dl-methionine marigold extract(rich in lutein)


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> Hi this is whats on royal canin kitten 34..
> dehydrated poultry meat,rice,animal fats,maize gluten,maize, animal proteins,hydrolysed animal proteins,vegetable fibres,beet pulp,soya oil,minerals,l-lysine,egg pwder,yeast,fish oil,fructo-oligo-saccharides,hydrolysed yeast extract(rich in mannan-oligo-saccharides)sodium phosphate,taurine,dl-methionine marigold extract(rich in lutein)


  And there was me thinking it was good stuff!


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## trish1200 (Mar 24, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> And there was me thinking it was good stuff!


me too, i just got it delivered today


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

my cats and kay73 cats look so good on it though???


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

yeh my Alfie is on Royal Canin Baby cat.. why is it expensive then? I thought it was due to quality but maybe not!


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

I dont know how convinced i am to be honest,the cats speak for themselves,glossy coats, healthy,the kittens thrive on it,they advertise as human grade ingredients.


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## Kay73 (Mar 26, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> I dont know how convinced i am to be honest,the cats speak for themselves,glossy coats, healthy,the kittens thrive on it,they advertise as human grade ingredients.


the vets have said how healthy and what fantastic coats my cats have!
I buy RC Intense hairball, because my cats need a food that helps hairball elimination!


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

And my Jinxy is back on Royal Canin Persian 30 and he is a right little bloater now and weighs a ton, his poos are also solid as owt again, lol


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## staceyscats1 (Feb 17, 2008)

i use 

eagle pack for my cats and i also get that from zooplus, and its holistic


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Its the longterm effects that you are not seeing.

Recent studies have shown processed foods to be a factor in the increasing numbers of pets suffering from cancer, arthritis, obesity, dental disease and heart disease.

Harmful chemicals and preservatives are added to both wet and dry food. For example, sodium nitrite, a coloring agent and preservative and potential carcinogen, is a common additive. Other preservatives include ethoxyquin (an insecticide that has been linked to liver cancer) and BHA and BHT, chemicals also suspected of causing cancer. 

The primary ingredient in many dry commercial pet foods is not protein but cereal. Corn and wheat are the most common grains used but, as with the meat sources, the nutritious parts of the grain are generally present only in trace amounts. The corn gluten meal or wheat middlings added to pet foods are the leftovers after the grain has been processed for human use, containing little nutritional value. 

Never let your pet decide what is good for him/her to eat. Did you hear about the dog who was sick - the owner brought it to the vet's and they x-rayed the dog. They ended up having to open the dog up - it looked like they were performing a C-section: They pulled out 12 - that's TWELVE stuffed animals and beanie babies!!! THIS is what happens when your pet decides his own diet!  my friend told me that story how crazy is that?!


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## Guest (May 4, 2008)

Have a look at this: The Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care - Google Book Search

Very interesting reading when considering what is best for a cats health. Page 60 shows an experiment done of the effects of feeding raw and cooked foods.


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## ladyhunter (Apr 28, 2008)

i give mine multi-mix cat crunchies. I buy a big sack once a week and it feeds all my dogs, cats and ferrets!


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

Hi

For thoseof you interested in raw food diet here is a link I found while looking at Maine Coon websites

~ WELCOME TO RAW FED CATS ~


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## Guest (May 4, 2008)

ladyhunter said:


> i give mine multi-mix cat crunchies. I buy a big sack once a week and it feeds all my dogs, cats and ferrets!


You feed your dogs cat food???


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## Kat28 (Mar 19, 2008)

Mine have hills science plan chicken flavoured is this any good


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## Guest (May 4, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> You feed your dogs cat food???


Sounds like it!?!


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## Guest (May 4, 2008)

snowy said:


> Mine have hills science plan chicken flavoured is this any good


Don't get me started on Hill's!


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## Kat28 (Mar 19, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Don't get me started on Hill's!


vet put my persians on it when they were kittens they are both 2 now and have never had anything else up until getting them i always had moggies who ate anything that was going. Problem i would have changing is that roony will only eat this snowy will have the odd bit of meat and has eaten a few of patsys biscuits before i ended up feeding them all same. They have sensitive stomachs so what is a better type of food to feed them.


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## LittleMissAspie (May 4, 2008)

Hi all. Just got a cat today, we bought a bag of Hills Science Plan as that is what she was eating at the rescue shelter. Am very keen to give her the best we can, don't think I could handle a raw food diet though.

Has anyone tried a brand called Arden Grange? Their Chicken & Rice flavour has the following ingredients:
Chicken Meal* 30%, Whole Grain Maize 16%, Whole Grain Rice 16%, Dried Brewers Yeast, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Fresh Chicken (Min 5%), Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Fish Oil*, Cellulose, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Taurine, Glucosamine Sulphate, Chondroitin Sulphate & MSM.
*Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract

How does that look, any good?

Is it a good idea to feed mostly dry food but supplement it with some canned tuna or raw chicken breast once a week? I know dry food isn't the ideal but in fact it all seems to have far more protein than the canned foods.


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

I fed IAMs to my cat - made sure he had plenty of water - and he lived to 15

Must read ingredients.....


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

For anyone who feeds their cat Iams, read this sad web site
StopAnimalTests.com > Companion Animal Food Companies
IAMS and animal testing

Iams have brought out a new healthy cat food
Iams® Healthy Naturals™ with Atlantic Salmon and the ingredients are
Chicken, *Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Meal, Chicken Meal*, Salmon, Brewer Rice, *Ground Whole Grain Barley, Corn Grits, Dried Beet Pulp*, Dried Egg Product, Natural Chicken Flavor, Sodium Bisulfate, Potassium Chloride, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), DL-Methionine, Dried Apple Pomace, Dried Carrots, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Peas, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Folic Acid), Choline Chloride, *Dried Spinach*, Dried Tomato, Calcium Carbonate, Minerals (Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Rosemary Extract.
all the bad ingredients are in bold.
And with Salmon.... the salmon is listed as the 5th biggest ingredient and chicken is the main one. How misleading is that???


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

snowy said:


> vet put my persians on it when they were kittens they are both 2 now and have never had anything else up until getting them i always had moggies who ate anything that was going. Problem i would have changing is that roony will only eat this snowy will have the odd bit of meat and has eaten a few of patsys biscuits before i ended up feeding them all same. They have sensitive stomachs so what is a better type of food to feed them.


Alot of cats have sensitive tums, I have taken 6 weeks to slowly wean Betz onto healthier diet, she would not have eaten it if i had changed it all in one go anyway, if you wean it in slowly enough they dont notice  I would recommend a food without al those perservatives and fillers i have listed.

An ideal diet is raw however we dont live in an ideal world! I feed Betz nature's menu, tesco's finest isnt bad either.


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## Kat28 (Mar 19, 2008)

will have to try and change them over snowy & patsy wont be a problem i dont think. Roony will be he wont touch his food if there is anything different about it even has 1 bowl that he eats from and wont go near other 2 he is really fussy. Even wets in conservatory if i go away vets have said this is anxiety with him .


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Will I have ordered my Orijen and am off to the butcher!


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

my OH says the Orijen has arrived, and there's some meat defrosting at home 

Fingers crossed


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

Ha Alan has got you all on the raw and orijen! 

I shall be converting at some point too, once he's got through the food he's already got!


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## mattyh (Apr 15, 2008)

bee112 said:


> Ha Alan has got you all on the raw and orijen!


Sure has.. I'm a sucker for a good sales pitch 

Seriously... the food looks so much better for them it's worth it


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

yeh definately, I hate all the crap they put in standard cat food!


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Hi Everyone, i've just found this thread. I feed my cats on Raw mince beef, raw Turkey mince, raw rabbit, Natures Menu Chicken & Turkey, there is also a kitten Natures Menu. Also cooked white fish. I have 3 week old kittens at the minute and i've just started them off on tiny bits of raw beef once a day, they love it. I do feed Royal Canin & James Wellbeloved too, but am very interested in the dry food you are all talking about.*


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## Guest (May 6, 2008)

bee112 said:


> Ha Alan has got you all on the raw and orijen!
> 
> I shall be converting at some point too, once he's got through the food he's already got!


I reckon alans on commission from orijen!!..lol..
just kiddin,bet he wishes he was though..


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## Kat28 (Mar 19, 2008)

crofty said:


> Alot of cats have sensitive tums, I have taken 6 weeks to slowly wean Betz onto healthier diet, she would not have eaten it if i had changed it all in one go anyway, if you wean it in slowly enough they dont notice  I would recommend a food without al those perservatives and fillers i have listed.
> 
> An ideal diet is raw however we dont live in an ideal world! I feed Betz nature's menu, tesco's finest isnt bad either.


Do they do this in biscuits as mine wont eat meat at all


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Try the Orijen!


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## Guest (May 6, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> Try the Orijen!


Hurrrah!!!!!


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## Guest (May 6, 2008)

I bet orijen have noticed a sudden surge in purchases


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## Guest (May 6, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> I bet orijen have noticed a sudden surge in purchases


I hope so! 

They do a fish variety too but I don't think it's available over here!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Aj having looked into Orijens more i am going definetely use it however it does contain spinach which isnt ideal but only in a tiny amount. Rice is actually easily digested and contains valuable protein.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

snowy said:


> Do they do this in biscuits as mine wont eat meat at all


No but orijen and organipets are good dry foods. If you wean your cat onto it slowly they shouldnt notice to be honest. I feed Betz wet food and abit of dry.

OrganiPets Organic Pet Food


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

crofty said:


> Rice is actually easily digested and contains valuable protein.


Rice does not contain _valuable_ protein. The only thing that makes it anything resembling valuable is the fact that so many foods lack an appropriate meat content to provide sufficient protein. Rice is a cheap substitute for proteins that should be provided by meat content. 

Cats are obligate carnivores: "animals that by its genetic makeup *must* eat the tissue of other animals in order to thrive. Obligate carnivores may eat other foods, such as vegetables, grains, or fruit, but they must eat meat as the *main source* of their nutrients."


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

I heard a little rice is good if they are having any poo problems. Brown rice is better than white for protein. The spinach bothers me, so I wouldn't think I would feed all of the time, but it is otherwise. I would certainly use it sometimes. It's just that too much spinach can cause kidney stones.

*Meat* is the main ingredient to Betz' diet, i dont feed her much dry food because im not keen on it.

They wouldn't eat rice naturally, nor would they eat cranberries or vegetables, but these things can be actually very good for them. Japanese cats eat rice every day with a lttle seaweed on it and they do just fine. Rice is much more digestible than any other vegetable to cats.


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

crofty said:


> The spinach bothers me, so I wouldn't think I would feed all of the time, but it is otherwise. I would certainly use it sometimes. It's just that too much spinach can cause kidney stones.


Where have you heard that? Spinach is a source of Vitamin E.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) 
Cats synthesize sufficient vitamin C (ascorbic acid) from glucose in their small intestine, and the cat's natural prey diet is devoid of a pure source of this vitamin. Additional supplementation can be harmful, because excessive ascorbic acid is excreted in the urine as oxalates. A high concentration of oxalate in the urine can contribute to the formation of calcium oxalate stones in the urinary tract, including the kidneys. A controlled study has also shown that large doses of injectable ascorbic acid has no beneficial effects for preventing or reducing the severity of feline respiratory disease. In addition, an overdose on vitamin C can enhance iron absorption and cause a resulting overdose of this mineral. The cat's resistance to disease is much less dependant on vitamin C, as is the case for humans. Instead, it is much more vital that sufficient amounts of vitamin A are available to the cat through her diet, which promotes disease resistance and proper immune function.

"Cats normally synthesize vitamin C (ascorbic acid) from glucose, so there is no need to supplement the diet unless there is a high metabolic need or inadequate synthesis. Excessive supplementation may actually be harmful, because excessive ascorbic acid is excreted in the urine as oxalate. A high concentration of oxalate in the urine has the potential to contribute to the formation of calcium oxalate stones in the urinary tract." 
The Cornell Book of Cats, 2nd. edition, page 82

There are many molecular substances in foods that offer no nutritional benefit, and must be processed and excreted. Oxalic acid, for example, is excreted in the urine, and its crystals are commonly found in microscopic urinalysis. Too much oxalic acid in the urine will result in kidney or bladder stones. Calcium combines with oxalic acid to form the less soluble salt, calcium oxalate, which is also found in kidney stones. Plant leaves, especially rhubarb, cabbage, spinach, and beet tops, contain oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is also found in potatoes and peas. Vitamin C is metabolized to oxalic acid; it contributes to over-saturation of the urine with crystals and possibly to stone formation." 
Excerpt from: Food Chemistry: Chemical Stressors and Toxins in Plant Foods and Herbs. 
Stephen Gislason, M.D. Helping you find solutions for common medical problems.

And theres more where that came from to support my comment


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

crofty said:


> And theres more where that came from to support my comment


Okay, so what's an excessive level of ascorbic acid?


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Feline Nutrition

VITAMIN C (ASCORBIC ACID)

Ascorbic acid, commonly known as vitamin C, has a chemical structure that is closely related to the monosaccharide sugars. It is synthesized by plants and most animal species, including dogs and cats. Ascorbic acid is produced in the liver from either glucose or galactose through the glucuronate pathway. With the exception of humans and a few other animal species, all animals, including cats, are capable of producing adequate levels of endogenous vitamin C and therefore do not have a dietary requirement for this vitamin. Therefore, unless there is a high metabolic need or inadequate amounts are being synthesized by the body, *a dietary source of ascorbic acid is unnecessary in cats*. In addition to being unwarranted, ascorbic acid supplementation in cats may be detrimental. Excess ascorbic acid is excreted in the urine as oxalate, and high concentrations of oxalate have the potential to contribute to the formation of calcium oxalate uroliths in the urinary tract.


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

Well I didn't know that before! 

I can't see 60mg/kg having too much of an effect on a cat though. Considering they only eat about 50grams of food a day thats only about 3mg a day.

I agree it's unnecessary but Orijen is certainly far better than any other commercial cat food available, it does not manage to even come close to feeding a natural diet though.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Yes i agree thats why i am going to feed Betz it! 

I dont give her much dry food, she is 3 years old and is used to eating felix and royal canin!! So least i have got her onto natures menu and abit of orijen now


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Bump


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

crofty said:


> Bump


Bump back at ya! 

I tried my kitties on Tesco Finest and after 2 days they are turning their noses up at it!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Bump back at ya!
> 
> I tried my kitties on Tesco Finest and after 2 days they are turning their noses up at it!


haha i was bumping after responding to bee's thread! Ive tried betula on abit and see nearly took my hand off! haha i did blend it in with the natures menu though. Looks nicer and smells nicer i have to say.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

Yeah I tasted it and and the chicken one does actually taste like chicken!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Yeah I tasted it and and the chicken one does actually taste like chicken!


Please tell me you're joking AJ!!!!


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

The man from M&S who concots the 'pet food' receipes tastes all the time....was an article in one of the Sunday papers not so long ago - I think M&S is high meat content as well


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

crofty said:


> Please tell me you're joking AJ!!!!


Nope, I tried Orijen before I fed them that as well!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Nope, I tried Orijen before I fed them that as well!


eeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

crofty said:


> eeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww


They both taste alright actually, Orijen drys your mouth out though! Think I might have to eat all the Tesco finest pouches! They aren't happy with it!


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

i used to eat bonios and doggy white choccy drops when i worked in a pet shop


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Hmm I have been known to eat pony nuts when I am down at the stables and am feeling a bit peckish!!


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> Hmm I have been known to eat pony nuts when I am down at the stables and am feeling a bit peckish!!


they are like chewing on soil!!


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## starlight (Jun 5, 2008)

I seem to be obsessed lately with standing in the pet aisle at the supermarket looking at the ingredients in the cat food 

Absolutely horrified at the lack of meat in the well known brands, 4% meat !!! 

At the moment we've got Felix cause we were told it was what our new addition was on at the rescue centre (so far shes eaten none of it) and purina one dry food.

Try to go for the higher meat content cat food or just good old plain chicken breast always goes down a treat


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## haylz22 (May 30, 2008)

Hi All, i have 2 cats aged 3 and they eat dry and wet cat food, whiskas for both, if i replace the dry food with the orijen what about the wet food?


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*You could get Natures Menu wet food, thats good stuff*


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## haylz22 (May 30, 2008)

can i buy it in any pet shop? im definately not buying whiskas ever again.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

There's quite a few good wet foods, Natures Menu and Applaws are two you can get from Pets At Home!


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## haylz22 (May 30, 2008)

thanks, i will have a browse when i next need food


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

haylz22 said:


> can i buy it in any pet shop? im definately not buying whiskas ever again.


Yay well done you, makesure you slowly change the food over though, mix it together and slowly increase whatever you change them too. Tesco's finest is good too. I buy 48 pouches of natures menu for £18 from pets at home


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

crofty said:


> Yay well done you, makesure you slowly change the food over though, mix it together and slowly increase whatever you change them too. Tesco's finest is good too. I bu 48 puches of natures menu for £18 from pets at home


wow thats cheap! I've been getting Applaws from ZooPlus, £12 for 24.

Is Natures Menu a complete food?


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Reading off Natures Menu Chicken & Turkey pouch it says .... A complete meal with no artificial ingredients, no preservatives, no colouring, no flavouring. Ingredients are Chicken minimum 43%, Turkey minimum 28%, Minerals, Derivatives of vegitable origin, various sugars.
Hope that helps*


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

bee112 said:


> wow thats cheap! I've been getting Applaws from ZooPlus, £12 for 24.
> 
> Is Natures Menu a complete food?


Yes its cheaper than applaws and more meat content, Selk67U2 has kindly listed the ingredients for you


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

The veg thing - in the wild a cat would hunt and kill and eat all of the prey except the gall bladder.

In the stomach would be the veg the mouse/rabbit/bird had eaten - but semi-digested. Veg is necessary for the cat (vitamens etc), so that is why in a raw diet the cat needs some veg matter. 

The raw diet site I looked at suggested whizzing up some fruit/veg in a food processor or liquidiser then freezing it in ice cube size portions, defrosting and smearing on the raw meat menu of the day.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2008)

I don't feed my cats vegetables or supplements, it's not necessary. If I ever manage to get them to eat just raw it will just be skin, muscle meat, organ meat and bone. Where have you read that vegetables are necessary?


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## haylz22 (May 30, 2008)

i couldnt get to pet shop today so had to go to tesco and bought their new luxury wet food, still have lots of dry gocat food , the ingredients are as follows

chicken (minimum 50%) Duck, (minimum 4%) vitamin and mineral supplements, tapioca starch. , the vitamins and minerals are vitamin a, d3 and e and it has copper (as culpric sulphate) does this sound ok for the time being?


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

haylz22 said:


> i couldnt get to pet shop today so had to go to tesco and bought their new luxury wet food, still have lots of dry gocat food , the ingredients are as follows
> 
> chicken (minimum 50%) Duck, (minimum 4%) vitamin and mineral supplements, tapioca starch. , the vitamins and minerals are vitamin a, d3 and e and it has copper (as culpric sulphate) does this sound ok for the time being?


I thought it had maize in? Whats the other 50% after the meat, doesnt look as bad as i thought it was. I cant find the ingredients but im sure they werent great when i looked in the supermarket? Will have another look next time


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## haylz22 (May 30, 2008)

the ingredients it has chicken (minimum 50%) , duck (minimum 4%) vitmanin and mineral supplements, tapioca starch

underneath the ingredients part it has Typical Analysis for all varities
Moisture 84.5%
Protein 10.%% 
Oils and Fats 1.9%
Ash 3% (what the ?????)
Fibre 0.1%

VItamin A
Vitamin D3
Vitamin E (as a-tocopherol)
Copper (as culpric sulphate)

and thats all it says on the box

i think tesco do this range and their finest range and this had the higher meat content by the looks of it


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2008)

haylz22 said:


> the ingredients it has chicken (minimum 50%) , duck (minimum 4%) vitmanin and mineral supplements, tapioca starch


That's strange I went to Tesco yesterday and had a look at their Luxury cat food and thought it was terrible, can't remember why off the top of my head but it was a totally different ingredients list to that!


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## haylz22 (May 30, 2008)

tbh they dont have much selection at the tesco i went to but it says on the front all recipes contain 50% chicken which is better than what i was getting before lol 

ive attached the pic of the packaging so you know if its the same one or not


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

haylz22 said:


> tbh they dont have much selection at the tesco i went to but it says on the front all recipes contain 50% chicken which is better than what i was getting before lol
> 
> ive attached the pic of the packaging so you know if its the same one or not


From what i have seen Tesco Luxury isnt much different to Tesco Finest? Which is on the good list of foods.

I am surprised at Go-cat that doesnt look like a full ingredent list to me  I know its a purina brand and their other products are awful.


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> I don't feed my cats vegetables or supplements, it's not necessary. If I ever manage to get them to eat just raw it will just be skin, muscle meat, organ meat and bone. Where have you read that vegetables are necessary?


and



> Reading off Natures Menu Chicken & Turkey pouch it says .... A complete meal with no artificial ingredients, no preservatives, no colouring, no flavouring. Ingredients are Chicken minimum 43%, Turkey minimum 28%, Minerals, Derivatives of vegitable origin, various sugars.
> Hope that helps


__________________

Note that natures menu has veg derivatives and where I got it about cats on a totally raw diet needing veg is here:

*My cats seem to prefer cooked breast meat and minced beef but I'm concerned that I should be feeding a proper cat food to make sure that they get a complete diet - is this ok ?*

_No - they do need something to help balance the diet as it is important to ensure calcium intake. There is an excellent product called Pet Plus (ring 08700 111 340 for orders) that will balance a meat diet. Also you could consider getting some fruit and veg and pureeing it. Then put the puree into ice cube holders in the freezer and take one out at a time to de-frost before adding at a 9:1 ratio meat to veg to the minced meat. The Natures Menu vegetable & vitamin supplement will also give you the same results._

This is from the BARF website UK BARF Club - The Ultimate BARF and Natural Feeding Guide for Cats and Dogs


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2008)

haylz22 said:


> tbh they dont have much selection at the tesco i went to but it says on the front all recipes contain 50% chicken which is better than what i was getting before lol


Been back to Tesco and it was Tesco Supreme I was looking at not Luxury!  Bought some of the Luxury stuff to try them on as it's better ingrediets than the Finest range!


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

ha ha AJ I can just imagine you rummaging through the cat food aisle at Tesco!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2008)

I wouldn't feed true BARF I would feed the prey model. Simular but not the same. It's debated that cats (unlike dogs) wouldn't actually eat the stomach contents of their prey. They get calcuim for bones, which is why I also feed Orijen because they have refused to eat bones, but we are getting somewhere now. I would never feed supplements because that defeats the whole object of feeding raw in my opinion.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2008)

bee112 said:


> ha ha AJ I can just imagine you rummaging through the cat food aisle at Tesco!


I had to do a lot of rummaging to find the Luxury stuff. It was hiden in a corner!  I looked at every food to see if their was anything without maize I could feed them until the Orijen gets here and there wasn't one cat food without maize!


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## LittleMissAspie (May 4, 2008)

Oh for goodness sake, I'm on the Tesco website now and they have ranges called Finest, Luxury, Supreme and Premium! Talk about confusing.

Let's compare them once and for all.

*FINEST:*
Chicken Breast (min. 45%), Tapioca Starch, Sunflower Oil, Vitamins & Minerals.
_(this is a tin, the pouches have the last 3 ingredients in a different order with the starch coming last)_

*LUXURY:*
Chicken (min 50%), Beef/Lamb/Duck/Liver (min 4%), Vitamin & Mineral Supplements, Tapioca Starch

*SUPREME:*
Meat & Animal Derivatives(Chicken 4% minimum, Ham 4% minimum), Minerals, Various Sugars, Coloured With EC Additives, Preserved With EC Additives

_Meat & Animal Derivatives contains: Petfood - Lobes, Petfood - Kidney, Petfood - Heart, Petfood - Liver, Chicken, Ham
Minerals contains: Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Polyphosphate
Various Sugars contains: Glycine, Xylose
Coloured With EC Additives contains: Titanium Dioxide
Preserved With EC Additives contains: Sodium Nitrite_

*PREMIUM:*
Meat & Animal Derivatives (Min 4% Chicken), Minerals, Various Sugars, Coloured EC Additives



No info on Premium nutrition.

So there's not much difference between Finest and Luxury. Luxury has more meat but Finest has more protein . Avoid Supreme and Premium!


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

LittleMissAspie said:


> Oh for goodness sake, I'm on the Tesco website now and they have ranges called Finest, Luxury, Supreme and Premium! Talk about confusing.
> 
> Let's compare them once and for all.
> 
> ...


haha yeh luxury and finest are the best


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## haylz22 (May 30, 2008)

well my cats love their new cat food which im glad about as one of them is a very fussy eater


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2008)

The ingredients of Finest and Luxury are simular but the food is a completely different structure. Mine weren't keen on Finest but they love the Luxury.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

haylz22 said:


> well my cats love their new cat food which im glad about as one of them is a very fussy eater


Awww thats great


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Bump in response to recent threads  save repeating things!


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## HGriffin12 (Sep 1, 2009)

mine are on classic cat food, the orange tins. It's the only wet food they'll eat!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Just want to mention I started Cuba on raw - with dry food if she needs to top up - when her kittens were born. They are now 4 weeks old, tucking into raw mince, and I've never had a cat keep such good condition as she is now, when the kittens are this age.

Sadly I have to ruin it a little bit - will have to get them used to the taste of canned, pouched and dry foods so they don't grow up fussy, and because I can't expect their new owners to feed raw!


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## rachy09 (Feb 25, 2009)

Im currently feeding my 7yr old persian on Purina indoor dry food, she has a sensitive stomach and I have stuck with this one as it doesnt make her sick. Also now and again I give her some tins Ive found of this gourmet food that has pure lumps of chicken breast in gravy and seafood one made with real fish and it has whole prawns in it. 

Wondering if it is safe to give her tins of fish such as tuna, mackrel etc and if so do you go for the ones in oil or brine?


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

rachy09 said:


> Im currently feeding my 7yr old persian on Purina indoor dry food, she has a sensitive stomach and I have stuck with this one as it doesnt make her sick. Also now and again I give her some tins Ive found of this gourmet food that has pure lumps of chicken breast in gravy and seafood one made with real fish and it has whole prawns in it.
> 
> Wondering if it is safe to give her tins of fish such as tuna, mackrel etc and if so do you go for the ones in oil or brine?


Go for the ones in water only - brine is bad for a cat.


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## toffee87 (Sep 7, 2009)

*bump*

Confused to try luxury or finest, luxury is cheaper though!


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## caela (Apr 13, 2012)

Hello everyone,

I'm new here, but joined because I'm so interested about this thread. Like you guys I'm always concerned about what I'm feeding my cats (I have a half-Burmese ginger and white lady, spayed and an entire ginger tom). I love them to bits and I feed them a meat or meat mix usually with a cat biscuit (free-feeding) to supplement. Ideally, I'd like to come up with the best diet for them. The meats I give are either roast chicken, cooked/ raw fish (rarely raw)- including sardines, sprats and white fish, a meat mix made up of pig's liver, pig's kidneys and beef braising steak, tinned pilchards and very rarely tuna. I think that's it! It's very hard to come up with inspiration for new foods and I think they're getting bored. I do supplement their diets on occasion with Arla lactose-free milk (Lactofree - Say yes to dairy without the lactose) and sometimes, cheeses (either cheddar or soft cheese) and yoghurt. Rarely, they get ice cream :S (so naughty I know!!) If I'm eating something I know they can eat, I might give them a bit as a treat but this is rare cos usually, I'm having something veggie. But now and again they are very naughty and get a slice of pizza or if we have take-away, they get one piece of fried chicken each which I have nibble off the batter from. I know it's VERY naughty, but they get this only VERY rarely and only when we are out of good food for them. I also get them treats on occasion, they absolutely lose the plot for treat sticks (I get cheap ones from Lidl by Coshida/ Opticat) and the ingredients seem OK, not too bad.

Some of the items I've listed above are completely fresh, some had been frozen previously. It's very hard to tell if something is completely fresh as a lot of supermarkets and butchers freeze meats and fish for transport, so I do what I can. I also cook the food for them mostly, which I know many people object to in line with the raw feeding thing. I guess I could feed them raw, I'm not too bothered either way, but they don't seem to like it as much. They eat raw fish, like whole sprats, but often drag them off round the house and leave them on my carpet half-chewed up, or only eat a bit and leave the rest, picking at it all day.

My cats aren't too fussy but they like different things between them. Neither of them particularly like pork, which I guess is good because they shouldn't eat too much cooked fats. One of my cats, the entire male, is just soooo tiny but not underweight (I've been told by the vets he's healthy). But it does worry me that he's so fussy and he only likes junk food. I honestly try to feed him healthy but sometimes I just give him treats so he'll eat SOMETHING! I know this is bad because he'll learn if he holds out I might give him something else, but 9 times out of 10, I'm too lazy to get him something else or he doesn't have treats in the house, so he has to just suck it up and eat what he's got. In which case he has a nibble and minces off to do something else. Maybe he's full and he's supposed to be tiny but he does worry me sometimes, he is quite prone to eye problems and he had dandruff recently which has gone. I am hoping it was the sun and the eye problems because we used to live in a moldy house, so he has cleared up from both now. But I hope it's not his nutrition and think he would be sturdier if he could just eat more.

Anyway, I'd love if you guys had any advice on spicing up their diet without compromising it. I don't like to feed them veg or rices because I don't believe they'd naturally have it. I will not feed them wet cat food as well because it goes right through them and makes them ill, but very rarely for a treat they can have a pouch. Also, I'm usually broke so I buy a lot of stuff on discount, just whatever they have out there which means sometimes they have rotisarry chicken or random meats for cheap (I have a freezer full of ox liver for 5p a pack! If you want these deals, try Morrissons just before they close, go around 8pm and they discount stuff). So yeah if you guys know any recipes or different types of food something they might not have tried but which is still quite cheap that would be great. There are only a few types of meat really so they get quite bored of beef or chicken. Like I said they won't eat fattier meats like pork and lamb.

Also, how terrible is the pet food industry for being allowed to market these things to us as a healthy cat diet? And for shame on vets for promoting it. The number one cause of UTI is dry pet foods really and cereals, tsk tsk. It's a nightmare buying them food, even just cat biscuits. From what I can discern, this guy seems to have the right idea and his pet food is excellent, my cats do love the biscuits: Pets Kitchen - Experts in natural dog food and cat food, developed by Joe Inglis TV Vet but I get them these now because they're cheaper and have more taurine and calcium: Cookies Detecting!

Also, what do you guys think of the Lidl Coshida and Opticat brands? Their cat litter is good for such a cheap price.

OK and last point, cos I know I talk A LOT, is that male cats especially should have access to running water as they're more likely to drink it and it'll limit UTI so that is my advice or get a fountain. But I'm so bad I hate my cats going in the bathroom cos they have foot prints everywhere (and before they had fleas before I started using Advocate instead of RUBBISH Frontline), so how can I get them to drink out their bowls and not out of my cup of water which is exactly the same thing!!

OK, OK, I'm going now!! xxx


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