# Dumbo Rat Help Needed!!



## Spev

Hello everyone! I'm new, this is my first post - sorry if I'm not meant to start a new thread but I'm absolutely desperate for advice about my new pet dumbo rats!

I just don't seem to be able to bond with them at all. They'll let me stroke them but they don't like being picked up. They know I'm the one with the food which is great and they'll take food out of my hands etc. But they sort of run to the other side of their cage when they see me and hide till they know it's safe to come out - when they're comfortable with me being there they're fine and they run about like mad things. They're healthy little things and they don't appear to be unhappy. 

I've tried putting into practice all the advice I've been given about looking after rats, but they've started biting me when I put my hand in their cage now. 

Obviously I don't want to get to a stage with them where I can't go near them without getting attacked so I don't want to leave it like this. I've had them for a week and a half which I know isn't a very long time and they're still only quite little, somewhere between 8 and 10 weeks old - but I'm worried it's just going to get worse and worse as they're getting older.

Help!!!!!


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## xxjackyxx

They seem rather scared and young rats that have been handled from birth should not be like this. Where did you get them from?

I would not give them any food from your fingers, they will associate your fingers with food if you do and wont look to see if there is any when you put your hand in, which will lead to you being bitten.

Have you tried just sitting next to the cage with the door open and waiting for them to come out and explore you? Rats are prey animals and hands closing over them if they are not used to being handled will scare them.


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## Spev

I got them from Pets At Home. I didn't really want to buy animals from that place as I feel if it had humans instead of animals there, there would be several major contraventions of basic human rights going on. But... you know what it's like when you just see them and fall in love with them and that's that...!!

They don't bite hard, it's just more a nibble really - I think it might be more a food thing than a "they hate me" thing. I've tried sitting by their cage quietly with the door open - but they just sit in the far corner of the cage where I can't reach them and they don't move until I do. They're getting a bit better and will start coming up to me now, but as soon as I move they get a bit scared.

Do you think it'll just take a bit more time and TLC to get them to come round or will they always be like this?? I mean it's only been a week and a half, maybe I'm over-reacting!!


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## xxjackyxx

Rats from [email protected] come from rodent farms that mass produce without any care for health or temperament. They do not get handled at all as babies which is why they are so scared of you.

As they are babies any bite you get from them shouldnt be too bad. Wash your hands thoroughly before trying to handle them to remove any food smells. Them pretending that you are ignoring them pop your hand in the cage and gently and quiety move and tough a few things - their hammoc, food pot toys etc etc. Rats are nosy and they will want to know what you are up to and will come to find out eventually.

Also removing anything they can hide in is a good idea too, igloos and tubes etc, you can always out them back when the rats are more sociable.

Do you have an old tshirt you could wear for a day and then put in thier cage? this would get them used to your scent.

You do need to be able to pick them up so that you can check them for lumps and bumps etc so do persevere.

Also, dont try and socialise with them just after puting food in their bowls - they wont be interested then


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## Spev

Oh my god, the poor things!! I had no idea that's where they came from!!! Gosh!! That's just made me want to perservere even more - these poor babies need to be loved!!!!

Thank you so much for the advice, I really appreciate it. I do so want to be a good 'mum' to these rats - hopefully in a few weeks' time they'll feel a lot more comfortable with me!!


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## trekky

Hi there 

It is possible to turn rats around i have hand tamed a few in the 16 years i've been keeping them. 

If they get a reaction to them biting you that benefits them eg your hand comes out of the cage they will continue what works. 
What you need to do is be able to get them used to being appraoched and touched without you feeling the pain.

I used to use a thick leather or gardening glove once i'd learnt to prevent myself reacting to them attempting to bite it worked with constant and regular attempts i bought them round. 
the other thing i use is a fake hand (one of those from a joke shop) rub your scent on every time you use it that way it will help with the transition to your hand. Once comfortable with this then try your own hand.

Just remember to take it slow. daily handling is the key and not giving them the reaction that rewards them for the effort.

The longest its taken me to bring one round was a month but it was worth the time and effort 
Let us now how you get on


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## Guest

xxjackyxx said:


> Rats from [email protected] come from rodent farms that mass produce without any care for health or temperament. They do not get handled at all as babies which is why they are so scared of you.


Most pets that you find at pet shops are from places who's only interest is to breed pets by the dozen


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## trekky

MADgical-Animals-UK said:


> Most pets that you find at pet shops are from places who's only interest is to breed pets by the dozen


I agree that the large pet shop chains do buy from a mass production supplier unfortunately this can mean that they are not bred for temperament or health and are generally prone to a common lung disorder. i like many have learnt the hard way with buying from these stores. However when i used to breed for show i bred for temperament and health if they couldn't be handled they couldn't be shown. I also took into consideration what mass breeding can do to the females that i still wanted to show. My females never had a litter until they were 6mths old and i never let them have more than 2 litters in their lifespan. My babies were handled from 2 days old i never had one with a nasty bone in its body. Whatever wasn't show standard of my litter eg markings or colour were incorrect i would advertise and sell my self while also selling to a local shop who knew my reputation for the rats i turned out. Sometimes best to buy privately when you can see the parents and how they're kept, just as you would a dog, or from a small local store that possibly know where they came from and/or can give you some background.


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## xXhayleyroxX

thts true ^^^^

it takes them a while to get used to human companionship
the two friendliest rats i had have 2 completely different stories:
max was a rescue rat, saved from a cruetly case, he was skittish and ill when we got him. but he soon got used to us and learned to trust us, and he even did tricks and wud have a cuddle 

goober i had from a baby  he would like nothing better than to be held and played with, and he would lick ur hand and fall alseep 

i miss them they both dyed in my arms


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## Clairebear

I have 2 rats that i purchased from pets at home and they have been fine and are so loveable.

it took a couple of weeks for them to get used to me and you can't force being handled on them as this will result in biting. 

your best bet is to just let them come to you. open the cage and stand near it and let them crawl on you and then after a few weeks they will be fine with being handled.

also if you show that you are nervous of them they will feel that fear too and will automatically think there is something to be afraid of ie you! they will then try and bite you in defense
The best way to pick them up is to scoop them up with both hands not to use you hand like a claw. as someone said they are prey animals and this is associated with being picked up by something they will kill you. 

the best thing i can suggest is to be patient and let them come to you as they are still babies and they have been taken from one environment and plonked in another so it takes them a little while to settle


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## Thunderandwhisper

Hi
We have got two male dumbo rats called Thunder and Whisper a week ago, Whisper is very friendly, and is happy coming out when we are about. However Thunder is incrediably nervous, and will only come out when it is completely dark. My partner and I have put two t shirts we have worn all day into the cage, so they learn our scent. Is there any other suggestions of how we can get Thunder to become less nervous? Also we are thinking about getting two more rats to join them (two more males, because we luckily have enough time to be able to devote a hour each to them at least), do you think this is a good idea or we should just stick to the two? Thanks for reading.


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## Chayley

This is so weird!!!

Ive been reading this thread, and im in the exact situation!!

I brought my dumbo rats last friday (6th march) from pets at home and one is so laid back he lets you do anything to him, he loves cuddles and sitting on my shoulder and running up and down my arms and finally curls up in a ball and goes to sleep in my pocket. But the other is completly different! He bites me all the time ive been wearing a glove so i dont move my hand away when he bites and when i take off the glove he still my bites me. He will come up and sniff me when the cage door is open but as soon as i go to stroke him he runs away or bites me. Ive called pets at home about this as this is my first time owning rats this is also why ive joined this site and im gald i did now because pets ant homes response was well all rats are different you must if picked one with a hypo temperment?! hows that helping and advising me?!

Also if any1 could help me... The one that bites all the time (melvin) likes fighting with the laid back one (monty) and bites him all the time.. pets at home told me its because my cage isnt big enough but it cost me £120 and pets at home told me to buy it because its the best one for dumbo rats?? and its huge it has 3 levels and loads of toys and tubes e.t.c to keep them entertained. So could there be another reason why melvin feels the need to attack monty? bearing in mind hes been doing it since ive had them?? could it be that hes trying to show him whos boss, or top male?? any help or advise would be very very much appreshiated... x


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## ZoeBaloney

I have also bought dumbo rats from pets at home, I bought the 3 males on saturday, and one of them is incredibly friendly already and runs up to the cage door, the other one approachs the cage door, but is still a bit too timid to come out, but is getting there 
However the 3rd rat, is much more timid, and is much less active than the other two. He also sneezes sometimes, and stays in the tunnels and houses for longer than the other two. I am attached to him and don't want to return him, but should I be worried?


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## owieprone

try and keep in mind that no 2 rats are the same, you will ALWAYS get one that is more timid than the other and completely different personalities.

[email protected] bought rats are no different personality or integration wise than a breeder rat, i've had both and had no unusual problems with either type. Some of the quicker and more friendly rats we've had have been [email protected] rats, our current breeder rats are super timid and we've had them for about 6 months now, and one is a right biter! but that's because she learnt it from our mentally challenged rat who was never friendly to us.

Your rats are new to you and their cage, it will take them time to get use to everything. Your rats aren't biting you cos they think you have food or becuase you feed them from your hand, they're nibbling you because they are scared and are trying to make you go away without forcing you to fight them and possibly damaging them. It's ratty body signals, you'll get to know these more and more as you interact with your rats.

The best thing to do as already mentioned is to sit still with your hand in the cage and just talk to them or talk to someone else in the room, read a book out loud, get them used to you, show them your not something that will hurt them. ferret your hand about their cage but stay away from where they are, go to the food bowl pick up a nugget and hide it somewhere, then go back and do it a few times etc that sort of thing pretend your a rat.

Don't think that just because they don't want to be picked up that they aren't friendly, alot of rats don't like it, remember they rodent code "danger from above!" you pick them up from above and lot of rats just never get used to this. instead offer your hand or arm (preferably with jumper on for better purchase) and you will probably find that most prefer getting on you under their own steam. 

biting wise, keep your hand clenched in a fist when you put it in the cage, A it'll hurt less when they do nibble and B will seem less scary to the rat as a closed fist can't pick you up. if they bit you say 'ow' move your hand in a slow jerk but don't move your hand away, it shows that you've been hurt but aren't going anywhere but aren't going to hurt them either.

to get them used to your smell when your not there i suggest used socks that you don't want any more, go to the gym wearing said socks and then stick them in the cage  yummy! 

some rats take longer to acclimatise than others, don't stick them back in the shop or give them away or they'll get a complex. Rats are JUST as intelligent as a 2 year old human, and act just like dogs and are as trainable as both of these. 

YOU have to be patient, learn the rats way of doing things, don't push humanisms on them, let them teach you how it's done at their own pace and you'll get far more enjoyment out of them.


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## ZoeBaloney

I have also wondered about whether putting one hand over the end of the tube when the timid rat is inside, and lifting the tube and the rat out, but I am worried this would make him frightened of the tube, and reluctant to go in it. Am I right?


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## owieprone

NAH wouldn't make him/her frightened of the tube, just wouldn't use it as much as a hidey hole when your about lol.

They are canny wee beasties rats, they're not as daft as they lead you to believe.

If that's the easiest way to get him to come to you then use it, it gives him abit of security and he knows you 'can't get him' very well. don't shake him out or stick your hand in, just cover both ends and lift him out in it. then sit it on your lap or where you can peer in and have a good old chat with favourite nibbles at the end closest to you. he should feel secure than being out unprotected and more at ease at being out of the cage and in your presence.

It can take a few months for a rat to be completely settled in it's new environment and completely relaxed with you. Just persevere and be as patient as possible, keep your movements slow and deliberate, talk to them heaps. let them decide when they've had enough playtime. 

It's also a good idea to get their name and basic commands ingrained while your doing this, so always look at a rat when your saying its name, if you can touch it while saying it, always say it's full name, later once it's learnt it you can shorten it (ie nezumi - nez - nezi - they will understand this is still their name). Other commands like playtime, bedtime, bridge (arms out for them to walk along), treats, climb (or up), down, etc whatever you want it to do just repeat the name of the action or whatever each time and they'll soon learn it. 

you can even be quite specific, mine know 'nana (banana), apple, papa (papaya) and yogz and only those that like that particular treat will come for it. 

oh yeah another thing, remember 'danger from above' is in their minds all the time! so when you want them to come to the cage door but they are too afraid it might be because you are high up and look very large and so 'dangerous', get your face down to their level and try again. Our scaredy rats respond really well to this, they are more likely to come and see us if we kneel infront of the cage for them or go round to where they are in the cage (big tall cage) and speak to them there. Once they get used to you, you towering over them won't be intimidating.


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## ZoeBaloney

Thanks for your advice, they are all much more friendly now, and willing to be handled. 
Thank you


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## Abs

Rats are prey animals so anything coming from above they treat as a predator, so your hand picking them up will scare them. Try putting your hand flat in the cage and allowing them to come to you, allow them to explore your hand and climb onto it.
Another way is to open the cage door and allow them to come out when they are ready, they are naturally inquisitive but will keep going in and out of the cage as they know it to be safe.
Make sure you have washed your hands before handling them especially if you have other pets such as dogs or cats as they will be able smell them and naturally be wary.
Talk to them gently and eventually they will regognise your voice and respond to you.
It just takes time and patients allowing the rat to get to know you and trust you.

-In regards to Pets at home. Suppliers are inspected on a regular basis making sure they fulfill the 5 freedoms laid down in the animal welfare act 2006:
- freedom from hunger and thirst
- freedom from discomfort
- freedom from pain, injury or disease
- freedom to express normal behaviour
-freedom from fear and distress.
Look them up - www.fawc.org.uk/freedoms

-They also help to re-home unwanted pets to good homes and raise money for animal charities.
-They try to minimise distance animals travel from breeder to store
Employees must undergo full training before being able to sell pets, they ask questions to prospect buyers making sure the animal will get all they need for a happy life making them aware of the commitment they are taking on.
-Most of the employees are animal lovers & do their best to provide good care to the pets in store, giving them as much time as is possible.
-PAH have high standards for keeping animals, giving them toys and also giving them hay in the morning, complete food a few hours later and veg in the afternoon simulating natural feeding instincts, unlike other retailers and care about where the animals are going including fish.
A lot happens behind the scenes that the public don't see.

You really should get all the facts before accusing people of mistreating animals. It's to easy to jump to conclusions without researching the facts first.


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## Abs

There are a few reasons that rats sneeze. They are prone to this problem and it is luck of the draw if you get one that doesn't. Rats are sensitive to dust so bedding should be dust free, no sawshavings/dust or clay litter, Biocat litter is good as is a paper like substance., shredded paper is good for bedding. Other reasons for sneezing is MRM ( Murine respitory mycoplasmosis) Rats ans mice are hosts to this disease causing bacteria, onset is usually slow and progressive. It is highly contagious and transmitted in a few ways including mother to baby, some rats never show any symptoms, stress or other infections can cause the onset of symptoms. 
Rats can live normally with this. Hair is often rough, sneezing, if severe head tilt.
Not saying that is what causes all rats to sneeze but just to make people aware. 
To help ease the sneezing and prevent it from becoming worse there are a few things you can do:
- Ammonia can aggravate MRM, so cleaning the cage out regulargly is a must, although this should be done anyway with MRM you should be even more careful. 
Reduce stress with companionship, toys to stop boredom and situate cage away from droughts as chills can aggravate the condition. 
Experiments are ongoing to create a vaccine for this condition.

On the subject of fighting there are several possibilities. 
Make sure that there is enough room for both rats to have their own space, Rats are highly intelligent so toys and food puzzles can help to prevent stress and boredom giving both mental and physical activity. They are inquisitive and like to be up high so lots of platforms, ropes, ledges and tunnels are good, If possible allow them out of the cage in a secure area. 
It could also be that they are trying to determine the dominant rat as all animals have hierarchy.
Lastly although rats on the whole are social and get on well together especially if they have been together from an early age, like all animals including humans some just don't get on. You could try seperating them if it gets worse and put the cages along side for a couple of weeks before introducing them back together, might be wise to do this in a neutral area such as a bathroom. 
Hope this helps.:aureola:


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## Akai-Chan

Abs said:


> There are a few reasons that rats sneeze. They are prone to this problem and it is luck of the draw if you get one that doesn't. Rats are sensitive to dust so bedding should be dust free, no sawshavings/dust or clay litter, Biocat litter is good as is a paper like substance., shredded paper is good for bedding. Other reasons for sneezing is MRM ( Murine respitory mycoplasmosis) Rats ans mice are hosts to this disease causing bacteria, onset is usually slow and progressive. It is highly contagious and transmitted in a few ways including mother to baby, some rats never show any symptoms, stress or other infections can cause the onset of symptoms.
> Rats can live normally with this. Hair is often rough, sneezing, if severe head tilt.
> Not saying that is what causes all rats to sneeze but just to make people aware.
> To help ease the sneezing and prevent it from becoming worse there are a few things you can do:
> - Ammonia can aggravate MRM, so cleaning the cage out regulargly is a must, although this should be done anyway with MRM you should be even more careful.
> Reduce stress with companionship, toys to stop boredom and situate cage away from droughts as chills can aggravate the condition.
> Experiments are ongoing to create a vaccine for this condition.
> 
> On the subject of fighting there are several possibilities.
> Make sure that there is enough room for both rats to have their own space, Rats are highly intelligent so toys and food puzzles can help to prevent stress and boredom giving both mental and physical activity. They are inquisitive and like to be up high so lots of platforms, ropes, ledges and tunnels are good, If possible allow them out of the cage in a secure area.
> It could also be that they are trying to determine the dominant rat as all animals have hierarchy.
> Lastly although rats on the whole are social and get on well together especially if they have been together from an early age, like all animals including humans some just don't get on. You could try seperating them if it gets worse and put the cages along side for a couple of weeks before introducing them back together, might be wise to do this in a neutral area such as a bathroom.
> Hope this helps.:aureola:


This post is was last updated in march so i expect theproblems have been resolved by now...

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## MerlinsMum

Abs said:


> *You really should get all the facts* before accusing people of mistreating animals. It's to easy to jump to conclusions without researching the facts first.


This just isn't the case. Sorry. Rats sold by PAH are bred by the rodent equivalent of *PUPPY FARM* breeders.
As someone who first imported Dumbos to the UK, I know what is going on, and I know more than most people about them.

PAH 'adoption' is a farce, they are using it to home unsold stock, which are born and bred in warehouses.
Would you like to clarify your claims here? Many people will be happy to challenge you. I am not jumping to any conclusions.

Get all your facts, please.... before tackling us, who know a lot more than it seems you do.


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## jackson

I actually know someone who breeds rodents for PAH, as he rentsbarns where I used ot keep my horses. I am not sur eif his standards are usualy, he is self employed and sells to PAH, but I really have to say, I do feel his animals are kept adequately considering the number he keeps and the fact that it has to be economically viable fo rit to be a business. 

His Guinea pigs are all in outside hutches attached to runs, some of the rabbits too. (seperately to the guinea pigs). Smaller rodents, hamsters, gerbils etc are kept in largish plastic tanks. I expect all are bred more than most people would feel comfortable with, and he does not breed with temprement or health in mind, admittedly, BUT his animals are handled daily as the children at the farm help him out and spend time with the animals. The animals are all kept clean and well fed, and I do not feel rodent farms are comparable to puppy farms at all. 

I am not saying things in this persons ideally wouldn't be better/different, but I wouldn't say his animals are suffering either. I suspect they have a far better life than the many small pets bought for children and then forgotten about or kept incorrectly,


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## Abs

True that occasionally pets sold on adoption are from pets at home as they have become to old, but this is stated on the adoption notice. Other animals are those brought in by members of the public who can no longer look after them.
Obviously breeding is not going to be the same as having pets at home, but I just wanted to make clear that the animals at pets at home have the best start possible for an animal store, this was the aim when pets at home was first established. It is true that some of the animals may contract health problems, but normally if pets at home hear this they contact the supplier to let them know, standard policy.


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## Hannah332

My two female dumbo rats were also bought from pets at home and are 1 and a half, they were extremely shy at first and hated coming near me, mine have bitten twice only and are now extremely loving and friendly. Mine are still slightly shy and are sometimes reluctant to be held or stroked by new people. I found that by sitting by them for 10-15 minutes a day really helps, they soon got used to me and now i often find them waiting for me, it really is just a case of them starting to recognise you/your scent, don't make any sudden noises or movements and talk softly to them. Cleaning out is also bonding time, talk to them and if your feeling brave stroke one finger from their shoulder blades down, they quite like this. Hope I could help. x


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## erialc

I have two beautiful little boys i bought from pets at home about 4 months ago, they were sold to me extremley young, i asked for specific colours and they bought my boys out to me! 
I fell inlove with them straight away and they were very skitish and very scared of me! i bought them home and let them settle a couple of days as you do and then the bonding started! i got them out everyday after work and let them walk all over me literally letting them explore! they were petrified of my hands at first and it has taken them some time to come to terms with me and my fiancee! 
Now i have the most effectionate rats ive ever had! You put your hand in their cage and they sit an groom you, they will curl up on your lap and doze off! they still get a little scared and sounds like he hoover but in time they will come to just accept it!
Anyone who has had rats before will agree with me that if you are getting a rat they are not to just sit in the cage and not be handled! once they get used to you they are fantastic pets and very effectionate!
i really hope they get used to you as my boys were exactly the same you just have to persivere with them and make them know that you are here to be there friends and not hurt them! once you have one over their trust they are very loyal! 
hope this helps and dont worry its not just you that had this problem! x


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## blade100

This is a very old post made in 2008 so I dont think they'd be alive today.


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## Jarhead

Our hamster, Stoid, RIP, used to bite when we didnt let her out for a few days. I used to wear leather gloves till she calmed down in a day or two. 

Now I pick up my pets up in a long tube. I never force them on my hands i sit on the floor with a tub of munchies on me and they run on me. and I feed them treats from my hands. Eventually they will be happy being picked up but I always but my hands down after so they can escape. They will start to feel hands are treats and lifts. And we let them run on the inside of our dressing gowns if the waists is tide.

If your rodent climbes on you by there choise it loves you. Stoid allways ran over us across the sofa. Ike the gerbil wouldnt go on hands but would sit on your shoulder. 117 and 118 degus ran in dressing gown when young then slept on you as they got older. Jarhead sits on me for treats and nicks my hazelnuts. They all show you they care in their own way.


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