# dog on dog aggression trouble with Alaskan malamute



## padfoot1 (Jun 20, 2012)

My Alaskan malamute is really a big softy at heart but when it comes to being outside on his lead he shows aggression to other dogs especially small adult dogs. He lunges and tries to bite them. As he is a very strong dog and im quite small in comparison I have him on a halti headcollar which works great for preventing him in pulling but finding when he lunges it still taking all my strength to stop him. Im considering in getting him a basket muzzle for when walking him however know this only a temp correction and needs training to solve the problem. I was wanting to know if anyone knows a good and more importantly safe muzzle and if any advice on how to train this out of him?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Safe Muzzle

Baskerville Ultra

Please make sure you introduce it correctly.

http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/MuzzleTrain.pdf
http://www.apbc.org.uk/system/files...aring_your_dog_for_a_muzzle_or_headcollar.pdf
http://www.apbc.org.uk/system/files/private/advice_sheet_7-_muzzles.pdf

Teaching A Dog To Wear A Muzzle (Muzzle Training) - YouTube


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

For training reactive dogs I would always seek the help of a good trainer.

Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT) | Official site for BAT: dog-friendly training for reactivity (aggression, fear, frustration) by Grisha Stewart, MA


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## padfoot1 (Jun 20, 2012)

Thank you for the links, have heard about the Baskerville muzzle. Needs to be one he can still pant through cause he can get warm very quickly due to his coat. I've contacted a local trainer who quoted 65 for a three hour session one on one which I think.probably best for him. My main priority getting him trained out of this, know it can be a trait of the breed but dont think he was socialised enough as a pup with other dogs but want to know that he is safe and the others that are around him hence the muzzle


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

How old is your boy and is he neutered? You probably know that Mas are not very dog friendly anyway and many have not only the well known 'same sex aggression' but any sex/dog aggression. It can be a Mal thing, some just don't like other dogs and even with socialisation will not get on with them. Even in my own house I have two packs as Kali will not get on with the other dogs here.

My youngest Mal Flynn has just been assessed by a behaviourist and is not dog aggressive as I had always thought. He is dog reactive but that is because of me. He has lunged at a dog recently because the other dog was barking and growling at him, so he retaliated but he lives with five other dogs, three small ones and his mum and dad and he gets on fine with them. I have had the support of a very experienced Mal kennel owner and rig worker and she said you have to be confident, if not they will 'take the helm' so to speak.

My Flynn is four, had two hip replacements and lost two years seeing other dogs so lost any social skills he had but at our training classes he is a happy boy, non reactive to the dogs there and with more integration I am confident he will not be reactive in the future. My trainer and two behaviourists have said his body language shows no aggression at all but my handling needs improving and my confidence needs building up.

I know exactly what you mean about your size - Flynn weighs 60kgs and I weigh 57kgs, but he walks perfectly for me and as long as I don't react at all, stay completely calm with a loose lead we can walk by dogs fine. If I as much as say one word though he picks up on tension in my voice, even though I didn't think there was any, and he will 'sound off'.

Go to training classes, it's helping us so much and no way will I muzzle Flynn just because I don't know how to handle him in certain situations. He has proved that it's not him who's needs the training, lol! 

ETA- You say he is a big softie and so is Flynn, he is scared of other dogs and as he's always on lead has no choice but to act 'hard' it's a 'flight or fight' thing. I have been told I baby him and with a dog of his size this is not good, so I'm having to take a step back and stop fussing him too much.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

padfoot1 said:


> My Alaskan malamute is really a big softy at heart but when it comes to being outside on his lead he shows aggression to other dogs especially small adult dogs. He lunges and tries to bite them. As he is a very strong dog and im quite small in comparison I have him on a halti headcollar which works great for preventing him in pulling but finding when he lunges it still taking all my strength to stop him. Im considering in getting him a basket muzzle for when walking him however know this only a temp correction and needs training to solve the problem. I was wanting to know if anyone knows a good and more importantly safe muzzle and if any advice on how to train this out of him?





padfoot1 said:


> Thank you for the links, have heard about the Baskerville muzzle. Needs to be one he can still pant through cause he can get warm very quickly due to his coat. I've contacted a local trainer who quoted 65 for a three hour session one on one which I think.probably best for him. My main priority getting him trained out of this, know it can be a trait of the breed but dont think he was socialised enough as a pup with other dogs but want to know that he is safe and the others that are around him hence the muzzle


Early socialisation and training is a must for Malamutes and if you think he may have lacked socialisation it could be part of your problem.

Also how old is he? Even though mine was socialised with all sizes and breeds around about 10mths he did become reactive, usually males, especially if larger and especially ones that were a bit full of themselves too. Mine now is OK with all females, small dogs and some males but still occasionally will react to certain males.

Does he not give any warning If he is going to react, mine does his ruff will stand up even before he may give a growl an his body language alters considerably. How close are you before he reacts? Is your dog food driven?
If he is then have you tried working at a distance from dogs far enough away before he gets reactive and getting and keeping focus on you rather then focusing on the dogs. If you havent tried it that may help. if you start off at distance work to dogs, and you find that you can get his attention and focus, you can then gradually as you build confidence work towards getting him nearer and eventually passing dogs.


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## fifemute (May 30, 2012)

I suppose I will have this too in the future, mieko is better with bigger dogs than the small ones. There is a male Mal (1 year old) and a male American Akita (10 months) that we bump into at the local park, the 3 of them get on great with each other, at the minute anyway.


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## padfoot1 (Jun 20, 2012)

Malmum said:


> How old is your boy and is he neutered? You probably know that Mas are not very dog friendly anyway and many have not only the well known 'same sex aggression' but any sex/dog aggression. It can be a Mal thing, some just don't like other dogs and even with socialisation will not get on with them. Even in my own house I have two packs as Kali will not get on with the other dogs here.
> 
> My youngest Mal Flynn has just been assessed by a behaviourist and is not dog aggressive as I had always thought. He is dog reactive but that is because of me.


My boy two and a half and no he hasnt been neutered. From what I've read I think it may be dog reactive rather than aggression. When walking if he spots a another dog he starts to tense up and growl and if they close enough lunges at them. With other big dogs and mals he perfectly fine it just seems to be small adult dogs. Most of the time the other dog will have reacted in some way either barking or growling but sometimes he just reacts even when the other dog being quiet and submissive.

I know a muzzle won't solve the problem but I'm just worried if i loose control of him it would be safer for himself and the other dog for him to be on one just incase.


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## padfoot1 (Jun 20, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Does he not give any warning If he is going to react, mine does his ruff will stand up even before he may give a growl an his body language alters considerably. How close are you before he reacts? Is your dog food driven?
> If he is then have you tried working at a distance from dogs far enough away before he gets reactive and getting and keeping focus on you rather then focusing on the dogs. If you havent tried it that may help. if you start off at distance work to dogs, and you find that you can get his attention and focus, you can then gradually as you build confidence work towards getting him nearer and eventually passing dogs.


When he spots another dog he either begins to growl or just lunges straight away but I can tell by the tension on the lead when he going to react. trying to make him walk past on a loose lead doesnt help just means he got more a chance of pulling me off my feet so i wrap the lead close in and make him walk beside me away from the dog but he still tries to lunge and bite, takes all my strength to get him moving in the right direction.The other dogs can be a few good metres in front of us and he will still react to them before they have even approached. He is not particularly food driven prefers his toys however when he sees another dog it is very difficult to get his attention off of them and rediverted.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Sounds like BAT would be just what your dog needs.


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## padfoot1 (Jun 20, 2012)

Going to get in touch with a local behaviourist/trainer who comes recommended and see what the assessment is. Think i will get the baskerville ultra muzzle just incase as it might help in the training.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Honestly take him to training classes  Flynn is so happy when he's there and actually wags all the time at the other dogs, I'm so pleased for him as he isn't scared of them like I thought he would be.

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/218305-so-angry-flynn.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/236712-flynns-assessment.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/238404-flynn-meets-two-dogs-training.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/241523-flynns-first-proper-training-class-morning.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/241642-training-aftermath.html

Read through my first five opening posts on these threads. See what happened to me and Flynn. I know exactly where you are coming from I honestly do, have been there all of Flynns life so far, except when he has been recovering from his ops. I have struggled alone all the time, taken him out sometimes feeling sick with nerves, not because he pulls because he doesn't, he's a real gent for me BUT we can have tantrums when he see's a dog and because I have been so scared he has picked it all up from me, reinforcing his need to step in as he knows I can't.

He has always mouthed off at dogs when he's in the car, sometimes punching the window but since his training (and he's only had two) he isn't even doing that. He goes again in the morning and I am really looking forward to it this time. I know now that I can deal with him, I have seen it work and been told if I react he definitely will - if I don't he definitely won't - and I've seen it's true.

Please take him to classes and release both of you of this fear, I only wish I had done it ages ago as I've been a bundle of nerves yet had to take him out for the sake of his hips - cried like a baby at times without anyone ever knowing!


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## padfoot1 (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks for those links Malmum, it sounds the exact same as I'm going through with my boy. I know I'm projecting fear when I see another dog approaching as I dont want him to lunge off and hurt himself or another dog. I've got in touch with a local trainer/behaviourist who is going to come for a consulation with him and them take it from there. The training classes sound like a good idea just wary of how he will react being in the same room with so many other dogs. 

What have you found been the best collar/harness etc to control Flynn when he kicked off? as from the video looks the exact same size as my boy and i'm only a wee thing of 5ft n 8 or 9 stone lol


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

I don't have a Mal but I do have an extremely reactive dog, so just wanted to say I really empathise.

Dex wasn't socialised as a pup and by the time I rehomed him, he was 14 months, big for a Lab, and literally lunged at anything that excited or scared him. Although he's much better now, if he sees another dog, he instantly tenses and if I don't distract him with a 'watch me', he will lunge, leap, bark, and generally go beserk.

On one occasion, he saw a horse before I did, and lunged so hard and so fast next thing I knew I was face down on the pavement.

Next day, I got a Dogmatic headcollar and it made a huge difference.

Have you tried the 'watch me' command? You need either food or a toy/game as a reward, might be worth trying, it has really helped with Dex but it takes quite a bit of practise.


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## fifemute (May 30, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> Sounds like BAT would be just what your dog needs.


This is a job for......


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## padfoot1 (Jun 20, 2012)

I have tried the watch me command but as he not food motivated it proves difficult to get his attention with anything else even with his favourite toy. Usually try to avoid any encounters with any other dogs if i can prevent it.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

We have a lot in common. Both scared of our boys, and both small mummy's who can easily be pulled about the place if they feel like it, lol! 

I use a Dogmatic head collar, the Halti rides up into the eye's. If you don't have a head collar then half of your problems will be solved as I could never ever hold Flynn back on a collar and def not a harness, Mals feel no strain on the neck or the chest, they just carry on regardless but with a head collar you can have some degree of control. In some cases you can have complete control but Flynn is very heavy for a Mal and being a pulling breed anyway if he wants to pull he pulls and won't let anything stop him. He is such a good boy in every other respect that the dog thing was so upsetting as I knew he could be different, just didn't know how to achieve it.

That's why the training has really opened my eyes to how different Flynn can be around other dogs. I have a harness on Flynn for in the car to anchor him and I use it with the Dogmatic with a 'halti clip' attached to the harness should the head collar ever come off, so as he'd still be attached. I don't trust collars on him as his neck is so thick with fur that it makes it bigger than his head and a collar would just slip off.










This pic clearly shows what I mean about his neck being bigger than his head, you can see how a collar would just ride up and slip off.


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## padfoot1 (Jun 20, 2012)

Yeah can see what you mean about his neck and with a collar. My boys neck not as thick can still get a collar around comfortably. he's on the halti lead the figure of eight style the now but I need something with more control so he not pulling me off my feet when he lunges but something at the same time who not going to hurt him or be uncomfortable. Was thinking of getting a double ended lead to clip on for the dogmatic and his collar. Do you think this would help?


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

My daughter walks Marty on a double ended lead, attached to his head collar and harness. Marty also has a thick neck (Flynns dad) so she doesn't attach to his collar. I like a leather lead with the halti clip connecting the head collar to the harness because I like to have a loop to hold. Both options are safe as they both have 'back up' to their harness, just as safe with a collar as long as it can't be slipped. 

Think you'll be hard pushed for a Dogmatic to come off though as long as it's the correct size


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## padfoot1 (Jun 20, 2012)

Yeah the dogmatics seem quite secure the halti he got the now ok but can still pull if he wants to


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

padfoot1 said:


> I have tried the watch me command but as he not food motivated it proves difficult to get his attention with anything else even with his favourite toy. Usually try to avoid any encounters with any other dogs if i can prevent it.


This is perfectly normal as your dog is TAR

Too Aroused to Respond (term courtesy of Susan Garrett)

This is why LAT is not suitable for in your particular circumstance and why BAT is a better bet!


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## fifemute (May 30, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> This is perfectly normal as your dog is TAR
> 
> Too Aroused to Respond (term courtesy of Susan Garrett)
> 
> This is why LAT is not suitable for in your particular circumstance and why BAT is a better bet!


WTF !


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

fifemute said:


> WTF !


WTH


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## fifemute (May 30, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> WTH


.......B&Q


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2012)

fifemute said:


> WTF !


Dogs who are over threshold, over aroused will not respond to food and/or toys that they normally might respond well to. Its because they are past the point of no return - TAR

If the dog is TAR a game like Look at that (LAT) will not work because the dog is in their primal brain, not the cognitive brain. Everything in the cognitive brain is shut down.

I have not had a lot of success with BAT (Behavior adjustment training) but I think its mainly because I suck at applying it. So instead what I have to do is gain distance to where my dog *can* respond to his usual motivators, THEN I play LAT or other stimulus control games - something Im much better at.

This is a good article on dealing with reactivity:
Behavior Adjustment Training » TheOtherEndoftheLeash


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I have just been told by two behaviourists that the look at that game can actually be counter productive with Flynn as it can hype him up. The best way forward is to ignore the other dog, keep the lead loose, stay calm and expect everything is going to be okay. This is working well with Flynn and he can share his training hall with five other dogs in close proximity which I would never have believed. Meiko needs to be assessed I'm order to find what's best for him. I have tried all manner of suggestions from here but only now have one that works since Flynns behaviour has been assessed first hand.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2012)

When done correctly LAT doesnt hype dogs up. Its an exercise that builds the dogs abilities to maintain control while aroused. 

I personally like the ability to teach the dog to learn to control himself while in a state of arousal. Controlling a cool-calm and collected dog is one thing, but a dog who can still listen WHILE hyped up is even better.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I have used it with Flynn and have had a certain amount of success but I like this new way of training I am using as it just seems more relaxed and natural to just ignore the oncoming dog. Of course if it works then use it but Flynn was unpredictable with LAT and I had to address the fact that a dog was coming which apparently I don't do well  and he was reacting to the way I was doing it. That's why he is responding better to me ignoring certain situations and concentrating on keeping *me* calm - which thankfully he is picking up on and doing well.

Even your voice can trigger a bad response if it has any anxiousness in it - which apparently mine did. Most likely why sometimes he was good and others not.

Def get an assessment Mike, it's money well spent, you don't need two hours and parting with loads of cash either.


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## mumbles56 (Feb 8, 2013)

My boy is leash reactive. Will also often have a cujo fit in the car when he sees another dog. He was almost a year old when I got him from the rescue. Gets along fine with my female dog who is actually the one that picked him out. He used to go to the dog park. If two dogs were playing too loud/rough, he would run clear around the lake and right between the two dogs to break them up. Seems to be a bit of a control freak. When he got to be about a year and a half I stopped taking him to the off leash park. He never bit a dog but he would mouth and aggressivly try to control some. 

Didnt have much experience on leash as we went to the dog park often. I was shocked the first time he had a cujo attack on leash. Lunging, snarling, standing on hind legs pulling. So I take him to school, they make me buy a head halter. He acts like an angel, they dont think I have a problem. I have taken him to 3 different classes, he is always very good in class. He has even been able to approch and touch a few other dogs recently so I thought things were improving. Took him out with a slip collar the other night and no head halter and he had two major cujo fits on our walk. 

Don't see how the problem can be me getting tense because he does this in the car and I don't even know the other dog is there until he starts his fit. WHen we are walking and he sees another dog it's impossible to keep a loose leash because he is pulling. 

My main problem is there always seems to be loose dogs around. So I carry doggie mace and a big stick. I'm still not sure if he wants to kill the other dog or just go play. He certainly sounds like he wants to kill. Now I am thinking a muzzle, let's see what happens when a loose dog approches.


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