# Help!!!



## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Hi,
I'm trying to breed my male dog with my friends bitch. Whenever my dog tries to mate with her she just jumps and yelps. Could anyone advise on how to get my friends bitch interested in my dog as I'm so scared that my dog will give up in the end.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

wat day is she on into her season??? 

it sounds to me like she isnt ready to be bred from yet.

wat breed is she????


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

It is not just the fact it will put the dog/ bitch off, they could seriously hurt themselves if you do not know what you are doing. I take it the bitch and dog are maiden


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

It isn't a good idea for two inexperienced people to try and mate an inexperienced dog and bitch. They could end up seriously injured and you could end up bitten, especially if the bitch is objecting, which it sounds like she is. 

Breeding two dogs is not always as simple as putting an in season bitch and a dog together and hoping for the best. If the bitch is yours, you'd be better off using an experienced stud dog. If the dog is yours, you'd be better off using an experienced bitch.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

And if you don't know what your doing - which it soundx like you don't you'd be better off not bothering! Did you get all the relevant health checks done before you started???
SW


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

whats with the big HELP!!! bit?? doesnt sound like something really urgent  take the advice from the people above or just let things take their natural course.
You shoul consider the health implications - on all fronts (hope you have)

james


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> wat day is she on into her season???
> 
> it sounds to me like she isnt ready to be bred from yet.
> 
> wat breed is she????


Start of november. She's a crossed breed of a shihtzu and jack russel.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Start of november. She's a crossed breed of a shihtzu and jack russel.


If she is a crossbreed, what are your reasons for breeding her?


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

jackson said:


> If she is a crossbreed, what are your reasons for breeding her?


The bitch's my friends and the male dog is mine, he's a crossed breed too, shihtzu and a laso apso. I just want a little puppy with my dogs blood running in it. So when the time comes....atleast I'll still have the puppy there after my dog, if you know what i mean. I love my dog to bits, he's my baby.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

Great answer


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Great answer


Yeah that's how i feel. I had a dog before and unfortunately he left me at a very young age, only 5 years old and everything around me collapsed. I just don't want to make the same mistake again as it hurts to much.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

I was been sarcastic,I don't think there is any need to breed a cross breed with another cross breed 
Have they had any health tests done ?


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

sylneo said:


> The bitch's my friends and the male dog is mine, he's a crossed breed too, shihtzu and a laso apso. I just want a little puppy with my dogs blood running in it. So when the time comes....atleast I'll still have the puppy there after my dog, if you know what i mean. I love my dog to bits, he's my baby.


Great that you love you baby - but unfortunately the dogs homes are full of dogs that used to be other peoples baby! Personally I would not breed these dogs. Just keep loving your dog as you do now with the knowl;edge that you are doing what is best for him.
regards
sue


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Zipppppppppppppppppppppped............................................................


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Yeah that's how i feel. I had a dog before and unfortunately he left me at a very young age, only 5 years old and everything around me collapsed. I just don't want to make the same mistake again as it hurts to much.


And sadly that is exactly the mistake you could be making by breeding these dogs.  Mine unfortunately left me a 4 years old - with an £11,000 vet bill and a massive great void in my life. I shall never forget that dog - neither shall I ever forgive the person who breed her without the relevant health checks.
regards
sue


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Yeah that's how i feel. I had a dog before and unfortunately he left me at a very young age, only 5 years old and everything around me collapsed. I just don't want to make the same mistake again as it hurts to much.


Not half as much as it will hurt you if your dog is damaged by your trying to mate him to a bitch who is not ready and you have to have him put down. Not half as much as it will hurt you if the puppies are born deformed and all have to be destroyed. What about the owner of the bitch? Is he/she prepared and able to pay for an emergency C-section if needed (circa £1,000) If the puppies can't be sold, can your friend give them a home? What if the new owners have trouble with their pups? Is your friend able to rehome them? And that's just touching the tip of the problems you and your friend could face.

Sorry to be so blunt but for goodness' sake give up this silly idea.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I was been sarcastic,I don't think there is any need to breed a cross breed with another cross breed
> Have they had any health tests done ?


I know you were sarcastic, but decided to ignore it as sarcasm isn't my style. Everybody has different opinions and I love cross breeds much more than pedigrees. Cross breeds can be much cuter and very easy to train if they're a mixture of the correct breeds....


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

sylneo said:


> I know you were sarcastic, but decided to ignore it as sarcasm isn't my style. Everybody has different opinions and I love cross breeds much more than pedigrees. Cross breeds can be much cuter and very easy to train if they're a mixture of the correct breeds....


You've obviously chosen to ignore all the very good advice given to you by several experienced people - I feel soooooo sorry for your dog and your friend's bitch.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

Mmmmmmmmm,
Ignorance is bliss spellweaver 

Just a shame the new owners may face huge vet bills


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

Casting aside the sarcasm and ignoring the advise
Seriously - take a look around, look at the dogs homes - do you really think the world needs any more dogs at the moment - whether cross bred or pedigree!
regards
sue


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Not half as much as it will hurt you if your dog is damaged by your trying to mate him to a bitch who is not ready and you have to have him put down. Not half as much as it will hurt you if the puppies are born deformed and all have to be destroyed. What about the owner of the bitch? Is he/she prepared and able to pay for an emergency C-section if needed (circa £1,000) If the puppies can't be sold, can your friend give them a home? What if the new owners have trouble with their pups? Is your friend able to rehome them? And that's just touching the tip of the problems you and your friend could face.
> 
> Sorry to be so blunt but for goodness' sake give up this silly idea.


We had all the relevant health checks and they're both in great health. Yes we're willing to pay for anything as long as the bitch, the stud and the puppies will be healthy. The bitches vet is excellent and in emergency a c section would cost about £500. I'm reading up all the time information about breeding so I have some knowledge of what i'm getting my dog into but unfortunately I couldn't find any information about when the bitch's ready or not ready to be bred and what signals to watch out for.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

sylneo said:


> We had all the relevant health checks and they're both in great health. Yes we're willing to pay for anything as long as the bitch, the stud and the puppies will be healthy. The bitches vet is excellent and in emergency a c section would cost about £500. I'm reading up all the time information about breeding so I have some knowledge of what i'm getting my dog into but unfortunately I couldn't find any information about when the bitch's ready or not ready to be bred and what signals to watch out for.


Well if you don't know that I suggest you give up the idea.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sylneo said:


> I know you were sarcastic, but decided to ignore it as sarcasm isn't my style. Everybody has different opinions and I love cross breeds much more than pedigrees. Cross breeds can be much cuter and very easy to train if they're a mixture of the correct breeds....


It has nothing to do with pedigree or crossbreed dogs, as far as I am concerned. It has to do with breeding puppies from parents who are not health tested, and so risking having unhealthy puppies, as well as the health of the dog and bitch by mating, potentially risking the bitches life, as pregnancy and whelping carry their own risks, all without having an inkling about what you're doing.

Do you realise people who breed puppies without health checks are no wbeing successfully sued as

What about the other puppies in the litter? How are you going to find homes for them? Do you realise you should be responsible for any pups you breed for their whole lives?


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> You've obviously chosen to ignore all the very good advice given to you by several experienced people - I feel soooooo sorry for your dog and your friend's bitch.


Ther's no need to feel sorry for the dogs. And no I don't ignore the advice from you guys. I haven't made the decision fully yet. That is why I'm seeking advice from wherever I can exp. the vet, from friends and family, from people on this site.
So I want to thank everybody who takes the time to read my message and advising me on all this


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sylneo said:


> We had all the relevant health checks and they're both in great health. Yes we're willing to pay for anything as long as the bitch, the stud and the puppies will be healthy. The bitches vet is excellent and in emergency a c section would cost about £500. I'm reading up all the time information about breeding so I have some knowledge of what i'm getting my dog into but unfortunately I couldn't find any information about when the bitch's ready or not ready to be bred and what signals to watch out for.


What health checks have you had done?


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

For brucellosis, SAS subaortic stenosis, allergies, malabsorptive syndromes, hip and eye checks and other heart problems. And he's up to date with all of his vaccinations, warming and flea control. That's my dog, I'm not sure about the bitch yet.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

did your own vet do these tests?


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sylneo said:


> For brucellosis, SAS subaortic stenosis, allergies, malabsorptive syndromes, hip and eye checks and other heart problems. And he's up to date with all of his vaccinations, warming and flea control. That's my dog, I'm not sure about the bitch yet.


I see. Did your vet do the checks? When you say hip checks, do you mean a hip score? What was the score out of interest? What eye conditions was he checked for?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, why let him breed with a bitch without ensuring she has had health tests done, if you have gone to the troubl eof having all the tests done yourself?


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Well yes, he's done a proper health check, there was a blood test done too which cost me £150! His feace was sent off for a laboratory testing too. There weren't any problems found, everything was normal so no further tests were required like ct or x-ray.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Well yes, he's done a proper health check, there was a blood test done too which cost me £150! His feace was sent off for a laboratory testing too. There weren't any problems found, everything was normal so no further tests were required like ct or x-ray.


But eye tests, heart tests and hip scores need to be done by a specialist. A hip score DOES involve an x ray, rotuinely.

So what you're basically saying is your own vet has checked the dog over, which is not the same as health testing that responsible breeders do. So that combined with the fact you really don't know what you're doing regarding mating, let alone breeding, means you're off to a very bad start.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

eye testing for example he would have to be checked by a specialist opthalmic vet.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

jackson said:


> I see. Did your vet do the checks? When you say hip checks, do you mean a hip score? What was the score out of interest? What eye conditions was he checked for?
> 
> Also, if you don't mind me asking, why let him breed with a bitch without ensuring she has had health tests done, if you have gone to the troubl eof having all the tests done yourself?


sorry I'm not sure what do you mean by hip score? Would you be kind enough to explain that to me? What I ment was that I'm not sure what tests the bitch had but of course I'l make sure she's had all the tests before I'd breed.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> eye testing for example he would have to be checked by a specialist opthalmic vet.


Than maybe I really should question my vet about this. Thanks for letting me know


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sylneo said:


> sorry I'm not sure what do you mean by hip score? Would you be kind enough to explain that to me? What I ment was that I'm not sure what tests the bitch had but of course I'l make sure she's had all the tests before I'd breed.


A hip score is an x-ray done which determines if the dog has hip dysplacia, as hip dysplacia is thought to be partly genetic. (polygenetic, which means there is no single gene responsible for it) The vet takes the x ray and then the x-rays are sent off to the BVA, where a panel of experts assess them and give the dog a score, which ranges from 0-108, but that is a combined score of both hips. So, each hip will be scored 0-54.

A score of over 25 is though to be dysplasic, and with pedigree dogs there is a breed means core, basically the average score of that breed, and as a guide only dogs with scores well below this should be bred from, although sometimes other factors are taken into account.

If you haven't had this done, your dog could be dysplasic and there is a risk any puppies will have hip dysplacia, which at it's worst is crippling to the point of being life threatening.

I hate to be painfully blunt, but if you do nto knwo these basic things, you really shouldn't be breeding at all, as it suggests you haven't done your reasearch or put much thought into it.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

Here are some common health problems of the shih tzu, which is just one of the breeds involved in this mating. Are you prepared/have had the necessary tests done for these? What will you do with pups who suffer from any of them? And when you have digested this, you need to look at problems pertaining to jack russells, plus whatever breeds are crossed in your dog.

_Small-size dogs, or Toy dogs, suffer breed specific problems. The Shih Tzu is not an exception. There are several congenital diseases (dogs are born with these diseases) that might present serious health risk in this breed of dog: patellar luxation, back problems and eye abnormalities. If the timely and correct preventive care is provided and if the breeding stock is free from genetic defects, then you have a healthy Shih Tzu.

Patellar Luxation The patellar or kneecap is usually located directly in the center of the knee joint. Luxation, or dislocation of the patella, occurs when the patella slides out of its groove. Patellar luxation occurs mostly in toy and small breeds of dogs weighing 22 pounds or less such as the miniature poodle, the pomeranian, yorkshire terrier, and some other toy breeds. Females are 1.5 times more affected than males. In most cases, luxation is a congenital condition (that appears at birth), but it may appear some time later. It is thought to be inherited although the exact mode of transmission has not been determined. In some cases, the condition is acquired through trauma. An affected dog can lame occasionally, or walk on three legs. Sometimes, a dog will show pain and hold his leg up. Surgery is the treatment of choice. Conservative treatments such as prednisone and/or restricted activity doesn't give much benefit and is recommended mostly for mildly affected or older dogs. More about Patellar Luxation [...]

Nose - Stenotic Nares - Stenotic Nares is a condition where the narrow resticted nostril puts a strain on the dog's system and can lead to an enlargement of the heart. When the surgery is performed the veterinarian removes a portion of the nasal cartilage to enlarge the nasal openings. In this disorder, the openings to the nostrils are too small and the puppy has a really hard time breathing through the nose. Stenotic nares is an inherited defect. An early surgical intervention can provide adequate airway flow that helps prevent the development of secondary problems like tracheal collapse and chronic bronchitis.

Mouth - Cleft palate - Dog cleft palate is a failure of the two sides of the palate to fuse correctly during the embryonic stage of developement. It can just be the soft tissue, in which case it is only cosmetic defect, but if the hard palate is affected, a puppy usually dies. It can be congenital or result from intoxication resulting from using steroids (cortisones), Vitamin A in overdosages, and some antibiotics. A cleft palate can be corrected surgically, however the puppy must be old enough to undergo an anesthesia.

Umbilical Hernia The Umbilical hernia is a small prolapse in the stomach wall, where the umbilical cord was attached. There is the possibility of the intestines stuck inside the hernia being twisted and the puppy dying consequently, especially if the hernia is large. If the hernia is congenital (birth defect), it usually is non-painful, but when the hernia is caused by trauma the dog will be in pain and its overall condition will get progressively worse. Call your veterinarian if you notice an unusual protrusion from your puppy's abdomen to determine whether something needs to be done immediately. Sometimes cutting the umbilical cord too close at birth can cause an umbilical hernia, but it is generally considered an inherited defect.

Bleeding disorders - Von Willebrand disease - Von Willebrand disease is considered to be a mild to moderate bleeding disorder and it results in a reduced quantity of a glycoprotein necessary for normal blood clotting. Clinical signs of bleeding that are typical of the decrease include bleeding from the gums, urinary system, nose bleed, intestinal bleeding, with or without diarrhea. Small haemorrhages on the gums may develop. Dogs affected with this disorder may experience prolonged bleeding at any site of injury, trauma or surgery.

Renal Cortical Hypoplasia - Renal Cortical Hypoplasia is a condition where the kidneys develop inadequately and are smaller than average. It usually results in infection and stone formation. Among other clynical signs are excessive urination, vomiting, convulsions, anemia and weakness. First signs may appear at 10 - 13 weeks of age.

Harderian Gland Prolapse (Cherry eye) - In this condition, the gland of the third eyelid, which produces about one-third of the tear film, prolapses as a pink fleshy mass protruding over the edge of the third eyelid, between the third eyelid and the cornea (clear front part of the eye that provides the first step in the collection of light). The condition usually develops during the first year of life. The cause of the prolapse is unknown but is considered to be a weakness of the connective tissue around the gland. The gland starts to move and becomes irritated. Irritation leads to swelling and discharge. The third eyelid can become bloody and ulcerated and develops conjunctivitis.

The treatment envolves a surgical procedure where the prolapsed gland is pushed back in its pocket. This procedure can be performed under local anesthesia.

More about Harderian Gland Prolapse (Cherry eye) [...]

Hypothyroidism - Hypothyroidism is a thyroid malfunction that occurs when the thyroid gland stops functioning and producing thyroid hormone responsible for proper metabolism. This mulfunction is commonly attributed to immune system problems. It is usually affects middle-aged dogs and is seen in all breeds. Symptoms include hair loss, weight gain, muscle loss, and lethargy. If left untreated, it can result in heart problems. This disease is usually diagnosed through blood tests. It can be effectively treated with drug therapy.

General Respiratory Problems - Shih Tzu have a lot of respiratory problems related to the shape of their face and head (the brachycephalic syndrome) which affects mostly dogs with a short nose (brachycephalic breeds). Due to an obstruction in the upper airways, the dog is forced to labored breathing. Not every brachycephalic dog will develop respiratory problems but most will to some degree or the other. Severe problems may require surgery.

Intervertebral Disk Disease - Back Problem - Intervertebral Disk Disease (IVD) in the dog is a common disorder manifested by acute pain, loss of movement coordination and paralysis. It commonly occurs in certain breeds of dogs called chondrodystrophoid breeds, such as Dachshund, Pekingese, French bulldog, Beagle, Basset Hound, American Cocker spaniel, Shih Tzu, Lhasa Apso, Welsh Corgi. _


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

A vet check is just that a vet check,it does not cover eye testing or hip scoring.
So by the sounds of it you've not had any tests done that both breeds are prone to.
Lhasa Apso Club

I suggest you find out what the shih tzu needs testing for and what the bitch needs testing for,responsible will research and test before breeding,not just throw two dogs together and hope for cute puppies,all puppies are cute but these cute puppies may turn into very unhealthy adults which cost there new owners a fortune in vet bills,which they can claim back from the breeders in court.
I agree with Jackson I don't think you have the knowlege required to breed responsibily,leave it to those who do know what there doing.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice. You're are right, I definitely need to learn much more about breeding and the to have all them tests done. I think I might change the vet as well because he either don't know what he's talking about or he just don't care. Breeding sounds so much simpler and easier than it actually is in reality. If I'll breed I'll make sure everything is done properly and that's thanks to you guys as I aready learned quite a bit from all of the advices that i got today. The end of the day I don't want to hurt my or my friends dog and definitely I wouldn't want to have unhealthy puppies either. Thanks


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Thanks for all the advice. You're are right, I definitely need to learn much more about breeding and the to have all them tests done. I think I might change the vet as well because he either don't know what he's talking about or he just don't care. Breeding sounds so much simpler and easier than it actually is in reality. If I'll breed I'll make sure everything is done properly and that's thanks to you guys as I aready learned quite a bit from all of the advices that i got today. The end of the day I don't want to hurt my or my friends dog and definitely I wouldn't want to have unhealthy puppies either. Thanks


Sensible But also it is not the Vets fault. When you get a Breed you should really learn all you can about that breed History, temperament, health issues etc.. How can you show knowledge or educate future owners if you do not know yourself. I would never even consider a pup from someone if they did not know the Breed inside and out


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> Sensible But also it is not the Vets fault. When you get a Breed you should really learn all you can about that breed History, temperament, health issues etc.. How can you show knowledge or educate future owners if you do not know yourself. I would never even consider a pup from someone if they did not know the Breed inside and out


You're right. But the vet should know what tests need to be done when you want to breed your dog. He's got the education about pets, not me. I wouldn't be selling the puppies. My friend's covering all vet bills as well as selling the puppies (she's already got buyers) if we decide to breed. All I'm getting is 1 puppy. I wouldn't be doing this for the money. And if I go ahead with this, all I care about is making sure that both dogs are in great health as I wouldn't want the dogs, pups or any of us to get hurt.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> You're right. But the vet should know what tests need to be done when you want to breed your dog. He's got the education about pets, not me. I wouldn't be selling the puppies. My friend's covering all vet bills as well as selling the puppies (she's already got buyers) if we decide to breed. All I'm getting is 1 puppy. I wouldn't be doing this for the money. And if I go ahead with this, all I care about is making sure that both dogs are in great health as I wouldn't want the dogs, pups or any of us to get hurt.


Vets do not know the Health Tests of all Pedigree dogs, thats where you have to take responsibilty and educate yourself if you want to breed ethically and I am sorry to say IMO Breeding a Shih Tzu/JRT with a Shih Tzu/Lhasa Apso is not ethical or responsible in my eyes


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

We all have different opinions. With people you have all sorts of races and mixtures so I don't see why should it be a problem with dogs as long as they're strong and healthy. They both look very much alike and they both have excellent temperaments. Idon't see why is there a problem or why should that be irresponsible. It's not like I'm breeding a dog with a cat...somehting like that's irresponsible. Or breeding your dog which's got health problems....


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> We all have different opinions. With people you have all sorts of races and mixtures so I don't see why should it be a problem with dogs as long as they're strong and healthy. It's not like I'm breeding a dog with a cat...


Humans and dogs are differentBut its pointless saying anymore so I will Butt out ya know my opinion


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> wat day is she on into her season???
> 
> it sounds to me like she isnt ready to be bred from yet.
> 
> wat breed is she????





sylneo said:


> Start of november. She's a crossed breed of a shihtzu and jack russel.


Why are you trying to get your dog to mate a bitch now that isn't due to come into season until November? No wonder she isn't having any of it...

Or am I missing something here? I don't know alot about breeding and I will admit that. That's why I wont even think of breeding.

Or am I being stupid... is it normal to start mating before a season even starts?


sylneo said:


> I know you were sarcastic, but decided to ignore it as sarcasm isn't my style. Everybody has different opinions and I love cross breeds much more than pedigrees. Cross breeds can be much cuter and very easy to train if they're a mixture of the correct breeds....


Cuteness shouldn't be a reason to breed or even buy a puppy. There's alot more to owning dogs or breeding them than how cute they can be. We mustn't let that overtake us! I know how a cute puppy can make us want one, but we all know dogs are hard work (and so are alot of other pets), so cuteness shouldn't be your main priority for getting a dog or breeding.



sylneo said:


> We had all the relevant health checks and they're both in great health. Yes we're willing to pay for anything as long as the bitch, the stud and the puppies will be healthy. The bitches vet is excellent and in emergency a c section would cost about £500. I'm reading up all the time information about breeding so I have some knowledge of what i'm getting my dog into but unfortunately I couldn't find any information about when the bitch's ready or not ready to be bred and what signals to watch out for.


"Health checks" and "Health tests" are 2 totally different things. 
If you haven't done already, you need to get your dog health tested for all the known health problems your dog breed can have, so that would be health problems for Shihtzu and a Lhasa Apso. Same goes for the bitch. 
You want to breed because you want one of the puppies from your dog. But do you know if the rest of the litter will have willing, good and loving homes waiting for them?

Oh, how old is your dog and this bitch out of interest? (if you don't mind me asking).


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> Why are you trying to get your dog to mate a bitch now that isn't due to come into season until November? No wonder she isn't having any of it...
> 
> Or am I missing something here? I don't know alot about breeding and I will admit that. That's why I wont even think of breeding.
> 
> ...


Hi,
We are just trying to get the dogs together so they can get use to each other before the bitch gets into her season, I just wasn't sure about her reaction as a didn't mate before. As I mentioned it before I'll take my dog Archie to a different vet and will make sure he gets all the health tests that he needs. And yes there are loving homes waiting for the puppies if we decide to mate, I mentioned this too. I want a puppy from my dog and I know how much of a hard work puppies can be as this is my 2nd dog so I have some experience with dogs. I've got 2 kids too and babies can be hard work too. I'm a responsible person and love Archie so much that I'd do anything for him. Archie is 5 and the bitch is 2.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2008)

sylneo said:


> We all have different opinions. With people you have all sorts of races and mixtures so I don't see why should it be a problem with dogs as long as they're strong and healthy. They both look very much alike and they both have excellent temperaments. Idon't see why is there a problem or why should that be irresponsible. It's not like I'm breeding a dog with a cat...somehting like that's irresponsible. Or breeding your dog which's got health problems....


But whats the point in breeding another cross bred litter? when the Rescues are full of them as well as may other types of dogs !? 
Is your cross bred littler,thats gonna have "FIVE" breeds in its bloodline,gonna be anymore different/desirable than the thousands thats packing rescues a cross the UK??


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

I entirely missed the bit where you said the bitch isn't even in season, it is not in the least suprising she will not let the dog mate her. 

It is plainly obvious that you do not have a clue what you are doing. In very blunt terms, you should not even consider breedign a litter, health tests or not. Everyone has to start somewhere, but you seem to be missing very basic information which the slightest look into things would have revealed.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Hi,
> We are just trying to get the dogs together so they can get use to each other before the bitch gets into her season, I just wasn't sure about her reaction as a didn't mate before. As I mentioned it before I'll take my dog Archie to a different vet and will make sure he gets all the health tests that he needs. And yes there are loving homes waiting for the puppies if we decide to mate, I mentioned this too. I want a puppy from my dog and I know how much of a hard work puppies can be as this is my 2nd dog so I have some experience with dogs. I've got 2 kids too and babies can be hard work too. I'm a responsible person and love Archie so much that I'd do anything for him. Archie is 5 and the bitch is 2.


Help!!!!So you think putting a dog and out of season bitch together they will practice mating LOL Jeez


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## Sgurr (Aug 24, 2008)

Can I believe this?

Sgurr


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2008)

Is this a wined up??? surely it is???

why let the dog mount her if she isnt in season??? its not even practice


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> Is this a wined up??? surely it is???
> 
> why let the dog mount her if she isnt in season??? its not even practice


LOL Well the OP did state dogs are like humans LOL Maybe they will have a *** after LOL


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

MrPedigree said:


> Is your cross bred littler,thats gonna have "FIVE" breeds in its bloodline,gonna be anymore different/desirable than the thousands thats packing rescues a cross the UK??


Actually it won't be "FIVE" but "THREE" breeds. And yes to me they will be much more different/desirable, special than any other cross even in the whole world as partially they will have my baby's blood. I'm not gonna breed for the money and the puppies will not end up in a rescue home.

Forgive me for asking but i have to just out of curiosity, why are you so much against cross breeds, Mr Pedigree? In so many of your messages yopu sound so much against them.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Actually it won't be "FIVE" but "THREE" breeds. And yes to me they will be much more different/desirable, special than any other cross even in the whole world as partially they will have my baby's blood. I'm not gonna breed for the money and the puppies will not end up in a rescue home.
> 
> Forgive me for asking but i have to just out of curiosity, why are you so much against cross breeds, Mr Pedigree? In so many of your messages yopu sound so much against them.


he aint against them...just sick of people breeding them.

hw much ya selling them for???


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

I'm getting a little bit confused here guys. Who's talking about practice or trying to mate them. I apreciate advice and help but really don't apreciate sarcasm. We're trying to get the dogs to get used to each other friendship wise and not the way you're talking bout it. I do have a clue bout mating as I've learned quite a bit within the last 48 hours and still got another month to learn even more before I make my final decision. And yes I had no clue about mating and that's why I joined this site, hoping that I'll get to know some friendly and helpfull people, who'll be willing to give me some friendly advice instead of making a joke out of all this. but unfortunately I was wrong as most of you that replied to my thread, was either sarcastic or thinking/believing you know it all. Some of you don't even seem to me to have a clue bout why a dog should or shouldn't be bred, yet again you're trying to make yourselfs look clever and important.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> he aint against them...just sick of people breeding them.
> 
> hw much ya selling them for???


I'm not selling them, my friend would as I'm not in it for the money. I just want a puppy with my dog's blood in it. That's all. Is that so hard to understand, mainly for someone who supposed to be a dog lover...


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

I just want to ask all of you only one question.

"DID YOU JOIN THIS SITE TO JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE OR DID YOU JOIN TO GET TO KNOW OTHER PEOPLE, GIVE ADVICE AND HELP THEM IF YOU CAN??"


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

sylneo said:


> And yes to me they will be much more different/desirable, special than any other cross even in the whole world as partially they will have my baby's blood.


Sorry, but that comment sounded very immature.

So your dog is the bestest in the whole wide world and that's why you have the right to breed. They will also be the bestest pups in the whole wide world because they will have your babies blood.

Ok.



sylneo said:


> I'm getting a little bit confused here guys. Who's talking about practice or trying to mate them. I apreciate advice and help but really don't apreciate sarcasm. We're trying to get the dogs to get used to each other friendship wise and not the way you're talking bout it.


Huh? What are we talking about trying to get them to mate. We made that bit up did we?
This was your first post...


> I'm trying to breed my male dog with my friends bitch. *Whenever my dog tries to mate with her she just jumps and yelps. *


I think you will find you said it yourself that you are trying to mate them, or practice mating. Not us. It doesn't sound as if you are just trying to "get the dogs used to each other friendship wise". To be a good liar you need a very good memory 

I'm sorry but I know you may feel as though you are getting bullied here. But the people on this forum STRONGLY care about dogs and breeding. There are also quite a few well experienced breeders on this forum who have offered you advice, yet you are acting like they think they "know it all"... well maybe they do? because they have been there and have the experience.

I know we all have to start somewhere. But most people know the basics about mating dogs... and you clearly don't. Hopefully you will listen and RESEACH RESEARCH RESEARCH before breeding. I wouldn't say 1 month... that's nothing. Some breeders research and prepare themselves for upto 2 years before having their first litter.

It seems as though all you care about is getting your cute little puppy that has your dog as it's dad, and the other pups will get sold off because your friend is the owner of the bitch.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

I think what people are trying to say slyneo is that:
= You need to get the dogs health tested - theses tests do not take a month. They need nearer 3 months for the results.
= The results will tell you if the pups are going to be ridden with potential illnesses, and tell you if the animals should infact be allowed to be mated
= By mating two dogs of different breeds with little knowledge/experience of the effect of that breeding your introducing a litter that will potentially be mated in the future

I think people are genuinely concerned that youll mate them to satisfy your needs despite pretty solid advice. And the new owners will be under the impression that the pups will be of sound health - when infact its just two dogs that have been thrown together to "produce"

A simple google search will give you ideas about the breed/tests - you said you lost a dog early.... At 5 yrs of age unless in a serious accident you shouldnt be loosing a dog?? If this was through health implications then you will be perpetuating the same cycle and pain - amongst up to 10 unknowing new owners (dep on litter size). It is this (amongst other things) that is concerning the members I think, not only the publics wellbeing but also the dogs life itself.

I hope this helps, it isnt meant as a poke at you though the expense of research and testing is what sets good breeders apart  (and no I am not a breeder_)


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> To be a good liar you need a very good memory


I'm not trying to lie and calling someone a liar whom you don't even know is quite rude. My first language is not english so what I'm trying to say might sound different to you. And no I did not try to breed them and yes maybe I used the wrong word "mate". When to dogs play so many times they end up trying to hump each other because of dominance. But I'm sure you already know this. So I'll refrase myself: The dogs where playing and when my dog jumped on her she jumped and yelped. The reason I wanted to know if this was a normal reaction from the bitch so I know what to expect when she's in season.
And I never said that my dog is the cutest to other people. He's the cutest dog to me cause he's mine the same way as your dog is the cutest to you as it's your. My kids are the prittiest to me as they're mine and my hubby is the best because he's mine. I hope I don't need to go on with anymore examples and hopefuly you'll understand what I'm trying to say without you being sarcastic.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

james1 said:


> I think what people are trying to say slyneo is that:
> = You need to get the dogs health tested - theses tests do not take a month. They need nearer 3 months for the results.
> = The results will tell you if the pups are going to be ridden with potential illnesses, and tell you if the animals should infact be allowed to be mated
> = By mating two dogs of different breeds with little knowledge/experience of the effect of that breeding your introducing a litter that will potentially be mated in the future
> ...


Thanks James.

You might be right about the other members being concerned but showing concern and giving advice can be done in a normal friendly matter without getting rude or sarcastic.
Atleast I could get some credit for seeking for advice and not throwing the dogs together just to produce. I was googling about info for breeding and that's how I came across this site too. I still didn't make a decision about the breeding even though I just would love to go ahead with it tomorrow, but I take things seriously where if I do it I don't want nothing to happen to the dogs or pups. And of course I'm thinking about the people as well who would be getting a pup from a littre. I'm a very responsible person and don't like messing things up, anyway my friends say that.
Thanks yet again for your advice. Oh and by the way my name's Sylvia

P.S Yes my previous dog Rony died after a simple operation and unfortunately they overdosed him on general anesthetic, so he's died as it weakened his whole body and heart. He couldn't digest any food or liquid that was given him. He was perfectly healthy before the op. they where only cleaning his anal part out from the glands. I hope you understand what I'm trying to tell you with my silly english


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Thanks James.
> 
> You might be right about the other members being concerned but showing concern and giving advice can be done in a normal friendly matter without getting rude or sarcastic.
> Atleast I could get some credit for seeking for advice and not throwing the dogs together just to produce. I was googling about info for breeding and that's how I came across this site too. I still didn't make a decision about the breeding even though I just would love to go ahead with it tomorrow, but I take things seriously where if I do it I don't want nothing to happen to the dogs or pups. And of course I'm thinking about the people as well who would be getting a pup from a littre. I'm a very responsible person and don't like messing things up, anyway my friends say that.
> Thanks yet again for your advice. Oh and by the way my name's Sylvia


Sylvia, the number of 'newbies' that come onto the site with "Ive Got A Dog And I want To know When I can Breed Him" questions happens daily if not hourly. The advice you get at the start of the thread is usually the one that is offered most best and should be considered deeply. The problem comes when 'newbies' (im only a month or two old) insist that their dog is brill and shrug off repeated advice. There are some serious dog owners in here that have spent thousands in avoiding heath problems in order to combat breed fatigue. You cant blame them for having a bark at ya when they are trying to get to the bottom of things . 
Like any forum your going to get personality, and in many respects they probably think your taking the p**s out of them too for "jumping in with two feet" - if you get my drift

Take it easy and have a chat and read over your original post it may read differently with a little experience??? - nice to meet you
James


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

james1 said:


> Sylvia, the number of 'newbies' that come onto the site with "Ive Got A Dog And I want To know When I can Breed Him" questions happens daily if not hourly. The advice you get at the start of the thread is usually the one that is offered most best and should be considered deeply. The problem comes when 'newbies' (im only a month or two old) insist that their dog is brill and shrug off repeated advice. There are some serious dog owners in here that have spent thousands in avoiding heath problems in order to combat breed fatigue. You cant blame them for having a bark at ya when they are trying to get to the bottom of things .
> Like any forum your going to get personality, and in many respects they probably think your taking the p**s out of them too for "jumping in with two feet" - if you get my drift
> 
> Take it easy and have a chat and read over your original post it may read differently with a little experience??? - nice to meet you
> James


James, that's what i'm trying to do to go over the whole thread again and again as well as doing the research through google. I'm not going to get into personal info to much but i have quite a bad illness wich i found out recently and unfortunately naturally makes feel more sencitive and maybe overeactive.

And thanks a lot for your understandin and for your advice....nice to meet you too
Sylvia


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Some of you don't even seem to me to have a clue bout why a dog should or shouldn't be bred, yet again you're trying to make yourselfs look clever and important.


Ok,Why should a dog be bred ?
In my opinion only the best dogs should ever be bred,they should be bred to improve the breed and add to it.
You can hardly to that with a cross breed can you ?
Whelping sometimes comes with complications,deformed pups, dead pups,out of hours C-Section,etc...


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Here ya go Info for you but please read reasons why you want to breed
Breeding Your Dog


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

Syvia, Hi again
With respect I do not think that people are against breeding as such, but many , myself included, are against irresponsible breeding. Many people who breed do so because they are passinate about their breed, they do it because they want to improve the breed and maybe show, they are also willing to spend a lot of money to achieve this.

You say that you want to breed so that 'you can have a dog with your dogs blood in' have you even considered the consequences should the worse happen - you could not only lose the pups but also the dam.

I also think to say that 'none' of the dogs will end up in resuce, is a very rash thing to say , sadly even the best of em can't guarantee this - unless of course you plan on keeping all the pups yourself.

You have asked the advice on the forum - members have given you their opinions, I do not see a point in argueing the fact as to why now - because I feel you are going to breed whatever any of us say. 

I would like to hope that you do reconsider, but I think not so please for the wellbeing of the dogs make sure that you have veterniry advice during the welp and do not rely on the internret to deliver the pups. 

There is also a lot to read relating to raising pups - whelp boxes ect - maybe it would be a good time to start reading.
regards
sue
regards
Sue


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## Dingle (Aug 29, 2008)

Why oh why are you breeding cross breeds with no health testing & no knowledge of what you are doing...


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

Dingle said:


> Why oh why are you breeding cross breeds with no health testing & no knowledge of what you are doing...


because hers is gonna be the bestest bestest cross breeds in the whole wide world


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Dingle said:


> Why oh why are you breeding cross breeds with no health testing & no knowledge of what you are doing...


Seemingly because she wants her dogs blood
To the Op you also state you are not in good health so breeding your dog imo is not a very good idea, I do hope you think about this


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> Seemingly because she wants her dogs blood


Hmmm  Still a much better reason than just you using your own dog and the pups so you can make some money


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

MrPedigree said:


> because hers is gonna be the bestest bestest cross breeds in the whole wide world


Maybe not for you but deffinitely for me. Clearly you don't like cross breeds but should i really care Mr Pedigree


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Syvia, Hi again
> With respect I do not think that people are against breeding as such, but many , myself included, are against irresponsible breeding. Many people who breed do so because they are passinate about their breed, they do it because they want to improve the breed and maybe show, they are also willing to spend a lot of money to achieve this.
> 
> You say that you want to breed so that 'you can have a dog with your dogs blood in' have you even considered the consequences should the worse happen - you could not only lose the pups but also the dam.
> ...


Hi Sue,

Thanks for your advice and I'll take it into concideration. Ot of the very few people who's being a proper grown up you're one of them and I apreciate that a lot as I'm really getting fed up from the sarcastic/childish comments. Thanks Sylvia


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Ok,
> In my opinion only the best dogs should ever be bred,they should be bred to improve the breed and add to it.
> You can hardly to that with a cross breed can you ?


So basically what you're trying to say you can do that only with a pedigree
I don't think so


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Maybe not for you but deffinitely for me. Clearly you don't like cross breeds but should i really care Mr Pedigree


IMO i dont think you know what your talking about
i aint got a problem with cross breeds that were bred by accident ,And i agree with you sylneo your mongrels will make loving pets
But seriously, i have a male `pedigree EBT here and i wouldnt dream of letting him sew his seeds with a none KC bitch let alone another type of breed !NO NO NO !
the thing is sylneo i think we should all give you the benifit of the doubt,as you started off with a cross breed so we can all see what postion your in


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## Tasha (Sep 23, 2008)

sylneo said:


> The bitch's my friends and the male dog is mine, he's a crossed breed too, shihtzu and a laso apso. I just want a little puppy with my dogs blood running in it. So when the time comes....atleast I'll still have the puppy there after my dog, if you know what i mean. I love my dog to bits, he's my baby.


I have a PEDIGREE GS hip scored elbow scored blood checked pre mate tested Ive bred working dogs for the police my bitch with an experienced stud and 4 experienced handlers refused to stand on two seasons so I quit trying its about the dog not what you want!!!


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

sylneo said:


> So basically what you're trying to say you can do that only with a pedigree
> I don't think so


So could you please explain the reasoning behind breding crossbreeds, apart from the poor excuse you gave,what genuine reason is there to breed more when we already live in a very overpopulated dog world and one dog is destroyed every 80 mins because it hasn't got a home.


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> So could you please explain the reasoning behind breding crossbreeds, apart from the poor excuse you gave,what genuine reason is there to breed more when we already live in a very overpopulated dog world and one dog is destroyed every 80 mins because it hasn't got a home.


Hi sallyanne can the same not be said for pedigree dogs, they are also being over bread? I think both mongrels and pedigree dogs are being bread way too often and irresponsibly by some people.

I have not read this whole thread as of yet as I have not been on the forum as of late, so cannot comment on others post but I will be reading through it all in due course


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> the poor excuse you gave


It's not a poor excuse. That's my reason weather you like it or not


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

Vixie said:


> Hi sallyanne can the same not be said for pedigree dogs, they are also being over bread? I think both mongrels and pedigree dogs are being bread way too often and irresponsibly by some people.
> 
> I have not read this whole thread as of yet as I have not been on the forum as of late, so cannot comment on others post but I will be reading through it all in due course


I think on a whole though Vix most would agree that mongrels are way over bred more than KC-ed Pedigreed dogs,even though you do see pedigrees in recuses ! 
IMO Most of these Back yard breeders breed crosses cause theres less financial out lay!


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

I think you are right vixie,I will be the first to admit my breed is very very overbred,but it is not overbred by responsible breeders,it's the BYB and PF's which are doing the damage to alot of breeds and crossbreeds with fancy names.

Sylneo,you still haven't answered the question,what genuine reason is there to breed from a crossbreed when one dog is PTS every 80 minutes because it doesn't have a home?

The Majority of dogs in rescue's are crossbreeds.

Responsible Breeders do not breed crossbreeds unless for a specific purpose i.e Lurchers for working.

I can not see any valid reason for the OP to be breeding,especially with the obvious lack of knowlege.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I think you are right vixie,I will be the first to admit my breed is very very overbred,but it is not overbred by responsible breeders,it's the BYB and PF's which are doing the damage to alot of breeds and crossbreeds with fancy names.
> 
> Sylneo,you still haven't answered the question,what genuine reason is there to breed from a crossbreed when one dog is PTS every 80 minutes because it doesn't have a home?
> 
> ...


I got my reasons. Getting tired of repeating myself over and over again. It's not my fault that there are so many dogs in the rescue homes. Also is not that easy to adopt a dog from the rescue homes either...and your comment on my knowlegde, as I said it so many times I'm learning, reading and not just dumping the two dogs together to let them to get on with it. If that would be the case than I definitely wouldn't waste my time on the internet at all. In life you got no knowledge as you have to learn everything and try to do it, otherwise you'll never learn just by sitting back and hoping for the best.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

sylneo said:


> I got my reasons. Getting tired of repeating myself over and over again. It's not my fault that there are so many dogs in the rescue homes. Also is not that easy to adopt a dog from the rescue homes either...and your comment on my knowlegde, as I said it so many times I'm learning, reading and not just dumping the two dogs together to let them to get on with it. If that would be the case than I definitely wouldn't waste my time on the internet at all. In life you got no knowledge as you have to learn everything and try to do it, otherwise you'll never learn just by sitting back and hoping for the best.


you go girl  have you got a back yard??? cause your gonna make one hell of a breeder


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

just to add, responsible breeders of pedigree's take back the puppies they have bred if they are no longer wanted, they would never want them ending up in rescue centres.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

I went through this thread roughly and i think there was no need for some silly comments.
To me it looks like this person tries to inform herself about breeding her dog and there is no need to jump at her with sarcarsm. 
Instead giving her advice in a friendly matter would be more appropriate.
Maybe she made a mistake trying to mate the dogs but again, there is no need for these comments. 
If find alot of people dont help at all by doing so, it just scares the ppl away


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> just to add, responsible breeders of pedigree's take back the puppies they have bred if they are no longer wanted, they would never want them ending up in rescue centres.


I wouldn't let that to happen


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Natik said:


> I went through this thread roughly and i think there was no need for some silly comments.
> To me it looks like this person tries to inform herself about breeding her dog and there is no need to jump at her with sarcarsm.
> Instead giving her advice in a friendly matter would be more appropriate.
> Maybe she made a mistake trying to mate the dogs but again, there is no need for these comments.
> If find alot of people dont help at all by doing so, it just scares the ppl away


Thank you very much Natik,

At last one person that makes sense. You explained it all. Hopefully they will understand you as I don't think they understood me. Thank you


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

sylneo said:


> I wouldn't let that to happen


its good to know you'd always be there for any of your dogs offspring if things dont work out there are so many bad breeders out there who couldnt care less.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sylneo said:


> I wouldn't let that to happen


The point is, even responsibly bred dogs can and do end up in rescue and it is very naive to think they never will. You have to accept that by breeding you are quite possibly contributing to the rescue situation.

Yes, you can and should offer to take the puppies back at any time in their lives, but you cannot control what happens once someone else owns them. If they decide to rehome the pup without telling you, sadly that is their business. There is currently a distraught person on another forum who's friend (well, they were considered a friend) sold on a pup she bred without telling her and will now not give her the buyers details. So even if you only give the pups to people you know, there are still risks.

That aside, just as much as people get fed up with those (including myself) who have strong opinions and voice them, I get fed up with the 'opinion police' at times aswell. Yes, maybe sometimes people jump in feet first, and yes, maybe sometimes without thinking (again, myself included!) but that is purely with the animals best interests at heart. Mating a dog or bitch, or both, without the right knowledge is dangerous to both. Lack of knowledge could mean the bitch if she gets in whelp dies, along with all her puppies. It is the responsibility of those who breed to find out what they should be doing long before going ahead, for the sake of animal welfare.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Hi,
> I'm trying to breed my male dog with my friends bitch. Whenever my dog tries to mate with her she just jumps and yelps. Could anyone advise on how to get my friends bitch interested in my dog as I'm so scared that my dog will give up in the end.


In reference to this post, (and the further information that the bitch is not in season) perhaps the OP would be so kind as to correct me if I am wrong?

You have a bitch that is not in season. Your dog is trying to mount her and she is objecting, which is making mating impossible?

If the above is correct, then you risk traumatising your bitch if your dog persists, as dogs can and do get raped. And yes, you also risk your dog being put off as well as serious injury to either one or both of them.

Mating is not usually as easy as putting a dog and bitch together, even an in season bitch. often a maiden bitch will need to be held, often by more than one person, even if she is ready, as they do get scared. It takes a very experienced person (more experienced than me) to know when a bitch just nbeeds holding to get started and when it will really be all too much for her.


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

jackson said:


> The point is, even responsibly bred dogs can and do end up in rescue and it is very naive to think they never will. You have to accept that by breeding you are quite possibly contributing to the rescue situation.


That means that ur as a breeder are possibly contributing to the rescue situation as well.



jackson said:


> Yes, you can and should offer to take the puppies back at any time in their lives, but you cannot control what happens once someone else owns them. If they decide to rehome the pup without telling you, sadly that is their business.


Pedigree breeders cannot control what happens with the dog in future too.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

jackson said:


> The point is, even responsibly bred dogs can and do end up in rescue and it is very naive to think they never will. You have to accept that by breeding you are quite possibly contributing to the rescue situation.
> 
> Yes, you can and should offer to take the puppies back at any time in their lives, but you cannot control what happens once someone else owns them. If they decide to rehome the pup without telling you, sadly that is their business. There is currently a distraught person on another forum who's friend (well, they were considered a friend) sold on a pup she bred without telling her and will now not give her the buyers details. So even if you only give the pups to people you know, there are still risks.
> 
> That aside, just as much as people get fed up with those (including myself) who have strong opinions and voice them, I get fed up with the 'opinion police' at times aswell. Yes, maybe sometimes people jump in feet first, and yes, maybe sometimes without thinking (again, myself included!) but that is purely with the animals best interests at heart. Mating a dog or bitch, or both, without the right knowledge is dangerous to both. Lack of knowledge could mean the bitch if she gets in whelp dies, along with all her puppies. It is the responsibility of those who breed to find out what they should be doing long before going ahead, for the sake of animal welfare.


i have to say Jackson what you have said is quite right & it actually happened to us, we bred a litter of puppies kept the 3 girls & let the boy go to what we thought was the perfect home, we vetted them thouroughly had them sign a contract & they kept in touch for 6 months. But they became very evasive & changed their phone number we were so worried & to cut a long story short my lovely boy ended up in a husky "rescue". Although they had his paperwork they never let us know they just sold him on. We were devastated & will never breed again the responsibily & upset when things go wrong is to great.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Natik said:


> That means that ur as a breeder are possibly contributing to the rescue situation as well.
> 
> Pedigree breeders cannot control what happens with the dog in future too.


I absolutely agree with both of those comments. Anyone can only do their best and go into the situation with open eyes. It is no good pretending that no dog you bred would ever go into rescue.

I simply so my best to ensure I have a good relationship with my puppy buyers and so far all my puppies are in their original homes. I also help with breed rescue in whatever way I can, which currently is only by donations, as we are in a new area having moved house. I hope to get more involved in the future, which goes some way to 'giving back'.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Hmmm  Still a much better reason than just you using your own dog and the pups so you can make some money


LOL Ye of little knowledge. I have been in my breed for 20+ years. I could tell you the ins and outs of my breed eg history, temperament, standard, health issues. I can talk all day to prospective buyers of my pups on important things good and bad about my breed.
I show my dogs and they get evaluated by breed specialists frequently. I breed when I wish to keep a puppy only.
Now saying all that what have you doen with your cross. Is it a good example of its breed( hard to say as unusual cross/ breed) Do you know the history, standard, health issues and temperament of the JRT and Shih Tzu ???? Do you actually know what/ how the puppies from this ludicrous cross would turn out????
IMO Think before you type
ps Nearly forgot a Lhasa Apso thrown in. I bred./ showed Shih Tzu and Lhasa'a years ago. Lovely breeds, shame they are gettin wasted nowadays. Caution PRA is rife in Apso's from poor breeding


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> So basically what you're trying to say you can do that only with a pedigree
> I don't think so


Well aPedigree is a good start as it is a BREED


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## ryan (Oct 15, 2008)

There are two types of breeders, responsible breeders and irresponsible breeders, there is no middle ground, there is a clear line and if you don't cross that line you still fall under irresponsible. You are way below the line at present and unless you fulfil the criteria to cross the line I would respectfully request that you do not breed from your dog or your friends bitch.

What have you actually done that you feel contributes to being a responsible breeder?


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

jackson said:


> In reference to this post, (and the further information that the bitch is not in season) perhaps the OP would be so kind as to correct me if I am wrong?
> 
> You have a bitch that is not in season. Your dog is trying to mount her and she is objecting, which is making mating impossible?
> 
> ...


I used the incorrect words at the very start as i already mentioned it last night. The dogs were just playing(not me trying to breed them) and as most dogs my one is an alfamale and tried to dominate the bitch, I just wasn't sure what that reaction ment from the bitch.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

ryan said:


> There are two types of breeders, responsible breeders and irresponsible breeders, there is no middle ground, there is a clear line and if you don't cross that line you still fall under irresponsible. You are way below the line at present and unless you fulfil the criteria to cross the line I would respectfully request that you do not breed from your dog or your friends bitch.
> 
> What have you actually done that you feel contributes to being a responsible breeder?


Well actually I'm not a breeder just yet, but I'm definitely responsible as Im doing my research, talking to other people, that's what i tried to do on this site, to gain knowlegde and information but it's not that easy to get proper usefull advice from selfcentred, sarcastic people. And if I'd go ahead with the breeding unless We're certain that the pups will be able to go to a loving home and if anything goes wrong I'm more than willing to take them back at anytime. I think tath's already responsible enough. I didn't just through the 2 dogs together, have I?? Unlike some other breeders...


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> LOL Ye of little knowledge. I have been in my breed for 20+ years. I could tell you the ins and outs of my breed eg history, temperament, standard, health issues. I can talk all day to prospective buyers of my pups on important things good and bad about my breed.
> I show my dogs and they get evaluated by breed specialists frequently. I breed when I wish to keep a puppy only.
> Now saying all that what have you doen with your cross. Is it a good example of its breed( hard to say as unusual cross/ breed) Do you know the history, standard, health issues and temperament of the JRT and Shih Tzu ???? Do you actually know what/ how the puppies from this ludicrous cross would turn out????
> IMO Think before you type
> ps Nearly forgot a Lhasa Apso thrown in. I bred./ showed Shih Tzu and Lhasa'a years ago. Lovely breeds, shame they are gettin wasted nowadays. Caution PRA is rife in Apso's from poor breeding


At the end of the day cross or pedigre, a dog is a dog and the most important thing's to have them healthy. You could have just as many things go wrong with a pedigree as with a cross. You said you breeding now for20+ years. Well I'm sorry to say this but in certain ways you sound as if you didn't have a clue yourself what you talking bout.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

sylneo said:


> At the end of the day cross or pedigre, a dog is a dog and the most important thing's to have them healthy. You could have just as many things go wrong with a pedigree as with a cross. You said you breeding now for20+ years. Well I'm sorry to say this but in certain ways you sound as if you didn't have a clue yourself what you talking bout.


I have nothing against crossbreeds and im def no expert ... but IMO theres less things that could go wrong with a ped than with a cross , simply because crosses have two , sometimes three or four different breeds diseases to deal with , not just one


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2008)

sylneo said:


> At the end of the day cross or pedigre, a dog is a dog and the most important thing's to have them healthy. You could have just as many things go wrong with a pedigree as with a cross. You said you breeding now for20+ years. Well I'm sorry to say this but in certain ways you sound as if you didn't have a clue yourself what you talking bout.


Responsible Breeders do all the relavent health tests for the required breed,to rule out any inheredited conditions which may cause problems later on.
Even with pedigrees whelping's are not straight forward,Tashi the mod on here is very experienced with breeding,She recently suffered a difficult whelping and lost the complete Litter 
I've had whelping complications,a breach puppy which we had to help our bitch deliver,a still born puppy and then finally a trip to the vets with one very distressed bitch who had a puppy completely stuck in the birth canal.
We had 4 live pups at home in a whelping box,I had to keep them warm,feed them etc while there Dam was in surgery,having the pup removed.
This happened during the night out of hours and was very expensive.

Could you or your friend spots the signs if the bitch needed vet intervention ?


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

This doesn't happen often, but I honestly give up. It is clear that the OP thinks they know better than people with years of experience. It's a shame, because it is only those who truly care about their dogs and can see the bigger picture who can admit they are wrong, change things and go about it the right way.

I sincerely hope Sylneo that you are not back on here in a few months time devastated as your dog, the bitch involved or all your puppies have had to be put to sleep or died.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2008)

Deleted. Because I changed my mind .


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

Personal advice from me would be, and im not a breeder, dont breed ur dog and try to look into all the breeds ur dog has in its blood and also ur friends dog as well. It takes alot of time to research the individual breeds and pls take ur time as surely ur not in a rush i hope. Every breed has its health issues which u as a crossbreed owner thinking about breeding will have to know about!

But, if u really really want to breed ur dog and nothing cant talk u out of it, then after u researched the individual breeds then u should inform urself about all the required health tests needed for the breeds and test ur dog with the required health test by specialists and of course ur friends dog need to be tested as well to minimise the health issues of the pups.
Make urself a list of how many expenses u will have, what u will all need and so on.
Try and find possible good homes for the pups before u mate ur dog, so the puppies have at least a chance to have a secure future. Insist on taking the pups back incease the new owner will not want it anymore for whatever reason.
Inform urself more what to look out during the dogs pregnancy and once the pups are born.

Im sure there is alot more things to mention, but im not a breeder so i dont know everything yet 

And i also wanted to add that i myself found it really hard to read out the advice given by some ppl as the critic was standing out so much that i had to read the posts twice myself.
Ppl shouldnt play games like "i am right, ur wrong" or "i know everything better and u dont know nothing" as this will not help whatsoever and will scare away future members considering cross breeding, which could be helped with advice. And it only causes the other person to have to defend itself without beeing able to take in the good advice which has been given by some ppl.
This person should get the credit at least by trying to inform herself before she makes any mistakes. As far i read she doesnt want to do it for money so i believe she would have listened if not pushed away by critic.

Im concerned about ppl reactions if i might want to ask some questions about breeding my bitch maybe in future and i am actually reconsidering if i will ever ask this really important question on here


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> At the end of the day cross or pedigre, a dog is a dog and the most important thing's to have them healthy. You could have just as many things go wrong with a pedigree as with a cross. You said you breeding now for20+ years. Well I'm sorry to say this but in certain ways you sound as if you didn't have a clue yourself what you talking bout.


WhateverLOL Good Luck


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Natik said:


> Personal advice from me would be, and im not a breeder, dont breed ur dog and try to look into all the breeds ur dog has in its blood and also ur friends dog as well. It takes alot of time to research the individual breeds and pls take ur time as surely ur not in a rush i hope. Every breed has its health issues which u as a crossbreed owner thinking about breeding will have to know about!
> 
> But, if u really really want to breed ur dog and nothing cant talk u out of it, then after u researched the individual breeds then u should inform urself about all the required health tests needed for the breeds and test ur dog with the required health test by specialists and of course ur friends dog need to be tested as well to minimise the health issues of the pups.
> Make urself a list of how many expenses u will have, what u will all need and so on.
> ...


I also read this thread a few times and am at a different decision than yourself. 
As for the "games" your above quote " I know everything better and u don't know nothing" appears to be the OP's attitude so really why did they want advice!!!!!!
I for one will now leave this thread


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

clueless said:


> I also read this thread a few times and am at a different decision than yourself.
> As for the "games" your above quote " I know everything better and u don't know nothing" appears to be the OP's attitude so really why did they want advice!!!!!!
> I for one will now leave this thread


Im sorry but i disagree with u there


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Natik said:


> Im sorry but i disagree with u there


Its a forum, so no probs from me, you can disagree it is allowed


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Responsible Breeders do all the relavent health tests for the required breed,to rule out any inheredited conditions which may cause problems later on.
> Even with pedigrees whelping's are not straight forward,Tashi the mod on here is very experienced with breeding,She recently suffered a difficult whelping and lost the complete Litter
> I've had whelping complications,a breach puppy which we had to help our bitch deliver,a still born puppy and then finally a trip to the vets with one very distressed bitch who had a puppy completely stuck in the birth canal.
> We had 4 live pups at home in a whelping box,I had to keep them warm,feed them etc while there Dam was in surgery,having the pup removed.
> ...


I'm really sorry to hear about All the problems and bad luck that you and Tashi experienced, really. During the whelping we would have there my friends sister who's got some experience with breeding and whelping. She had 2 litters so far


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> I also read this thread a few times and am at a different decision than yourself.
> As for the "games" your above quote " I know everything better and u don't know nothing" appears to be the OP's attitude so really why did they want advice!!!!!!
> I for one will now leave this thread


I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with you as I came on here for advice and not for sarcastic comments or "I know everythin"attitude"and you know nothing".
I don't have a clue how old you are but from some of your comments you sound a bit childish Think about it. You should read back all the comments you wrote on this thread. Unfortunately most of them are sarcastic, so how could I really take you seriously


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

jackson said:


> This doesn't happen often, but I honestly give up. It is clear that the OP thinks they know better than people with years of experience. It's a shame, because it is only those who truly care about their dogs and can see the bigger picture who can admit they are wrong, change things and go about it the right way.
> 
> I sincerely hope Sylneo that you are not back on here in a few months time devastated as your dog, the bitch involved or all your puppies have had to be put to sleep or died.


I never said I know it better than people with experience, I just had enough of sarcastic comments. I used to do that in my teens and not adulthood.

Anyway, I shouldn't be back devastated if I'll do everything correctly


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with you as I came on here for advice and not for sarcastic comments or "I know everythin"attitude"and you know nothing".
> I don't have a clue how old you are but from some of your comments you sound a bit childish Think about it. You should read back all the comments you wrote on this thread. Unfortunately most of them are sarcastic, so how could I really take you seriously


I gave advice at the beginning and then realised your attitude/ reasons for breeding were unresponsible. Report my sarcastic commentsas they were mainly in reply to ones


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> I gave advice at the beginning and then realised your attitude/ reasons for breeding were unresponsible. Report my sarcastic commentsas they were mainly in reply to ones


I'm not sure what attitude you're on about here
You should refresh your mind by reading the thread and see who really started with the ones



clueless said:


> Help!!!!So you think putting a dog and out of season bitch together they will practice mating LOL Jeez


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Hi,
> I'm trying to breed my male dog with my friends bitch. Whenever my dog tries to mate with her she just jumps and yelps. Could anyone advise on how to get my friends bitch interested in my dog as I'm so scared that my dog will give up in the end.


Your OP!!!!



clueless said:


> LOL Well the OP did state dogs are like humans LOL Maybe they will have a *** after LOL


You forgot this one but it was a Joke Ooops


clueless said:


> Here ya go Info for you but please read reasons why you want to breed
> Breeding Your Dog


A good informative link I gave for you. Did you manage to read it?



sylneo said:


> Hmmm  Still a much better reason than just you using your own dog and the pups so you can make some money


And above


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

I'm not going to get into personal info to much but i have quite a bad illness wich i found out recently and unfortunately naturally makes feel more sencitive and maybe overeactive.

And thanks a lot for your understandin and for your advice....nice to meet you too
Sylvia[/QUOTE]



clueless said:


> Seemingly because she wants her dogs blood
> To the Op you also state you are not in good health so breeding your dog imo is not a very good idea, I do hope you think about this


You stated you had a bad illness and I adviced you that breeding your dog was not a very good idea. Concerned for ya and good advice imo


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Look the end of the I don't want to fight. I wanted advice and info. At the start you seemed to me to be a nice person, I just don't like it when somebody is  to me or is making fun of me cause I'll just react the same way. On the other hand I do like meeting new people and making friends....
Yes you gave me an informative site for what I thanked, but thank you again. I've been visiting so many sites that other people gave me as well as through google, you really should see the history on my computer....I'm trying my best


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> Seemingly because she wants her dogs blood


Was there a need for a comment like that? Without this comment I would of look at the message and think that this person actually's trying to help/advice me, but the above commnet knocked me right back


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Was there a need for a comment like that? Without this comment I would of look at the message and think that this person actually's trying to help/advice me, but the above commnet knocked me right back


Funny how other members have also thought what an immature comment. You seem to have a problem with me so my advice Put me on Ignore. 
I am an Ethical and Responsible breeder who you have probably worked out by now I totally dislike people breeding for silly (imo)reasons. 
I have nothing against your pet dog by the way He is Cute.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> Funny how other members have also thought what an immature comment. You seem to have a problem with me so my advice Put me on Ignore.
> I am an Ethical and Responsible breeder who you have probably worked out by now I totally dislike people breeding for silly (imo)reasons.
> I have nothing against your pet dog by the way He is Cute.


As I said at 1st i had no probs. I'm happy when people care and give me advice only without the  comments. I don't have a problem with you as I don't know you well enough to make a decision like that. I'm sure you have experience about breeding as you've done it before that's why i read every single message you left it's only the  parts that got to me. I'm not saying you're the only one as there were unfortunately other members too. Whatever you think about me as it's clear to me that you got a prob with me just like other, but I do think that i should get some credit atleast for coming onto this site for advice and help instead of just throwing the 2 dogs together like so many people do in this country.
Thanks for the comment on Archie, yours is a little adorable princess


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm a bit late with this one.

I know nothing about breeding. I do know where you are coming from.

My little dog is perfect, he's a good all rounder perfect companion, social with everyone, adults and children including strangers, brilliant with other dogs, although he will defend himself, if approached by an aggressive dog, he's not submissive.

I, like you wanted him to sire my next puppy. I was in touch with Kathy Diamond Davis who has a website on dog behaviour. She wrote to me and said these words that have stuck, "There will be approximately six puppies, for you to raise one. What will happen to the others?"

Realistically I can't look after up to six puppies, I don't have the time or the resources.

Hubby was of the opinion that isn't our problem its the person who owns the dam, cheeky b*gger typical man leave the mother holding the baby.

Trust me another puppy will be just as cute and will have its own character and personality. Even a puppy sired by your own dog will still have its own character and personality, unless they are cloned, which is off topic. 


Sue


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

sskmick said:


> I'm a bit late with this one.
> 
> I know nothing about breeding. I do know where you are coming from.
> 
> ...


Hi Sue,
Thank you very much for taking your time and reading this thread. Also thank you very much for your advice which is taken on board. Yeah as you say it's all true. I know the puppy wouldn't be a clone of my dog so it won't be the same. It's only that i'm really scared from the day when i lose my baby and if I'll have there another doggy which's related to my baby...
My friend already has ppl who would want a puppy so that's not a problem and as I said, if anything would happen in the future I would be more than happy to take any of the pups back (if the owners for any resons couldn't or wouldn't want to keep the pup)
Thanks for the advice


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## thickskinned (May 13, 2008)

hi
i have just been reading your thread.
hope you got the answers you were looking for and i wish you luck with whatever you decide to do.
at the end of the day its all down to you ...so i hope it all goes good for you.
dont forget to post some pics of any pups you have


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

thickskinned said:


> hi
> i have just been reading your thread.
> hope you got the answers you were looking for and i wish you luck with whatever you decide to do.
> at the end of the day its all down to you ...so i hope it all goes good for you.
> dont forget to post some pics of any pups you have


Thanks for that. Ihaven't made my final decision just yet, but if everything goes well as planned it's 99% we'll give it a go. Thanks again and if there will be any puppies, you can bet on it as i will definitely post pics of them


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2008)

Hi

Have you considered the amount of excrement, widdle and spew a litter of pups will produce?

You will be forever and a day cleaning up poop.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> I'm a responsible person and love Archie so much that I'd do anything for him.


sylneo, having read the thread from the beginning, it would seem that you are determined to breed, in spite of the excellent advice that you have been given. One thing that hasn't been mentioned though, and given that you seem to love your dog as he is, should be mentioned.....

Putting your pet dog to stud is quite likely to change his behaviour and personality (and for some reason this is even more common in small breeds than large breeds).

These changes include marking indoors and cocking his leg on furniture (even if previously housetrained), running off after bitches (once they've had a taste for it, they want more...) and becoming aggressive, particularly towards other male dogs.

Are you prepared for these changes and how will you feel when your beloved dog starts behaving in these ways?

As far as the actual mating goes, do you realise that you may well actually have to be very hands on and physically assist in ensuring he er.... hits the right spot? These are domesticated animals, and have, to a certain extent, lost the ability to do things naturally, and often need a helping hand....literally...!

Also, would you know how to handle it if, while tying, the bitch panics and tries to get away... considerable damage could be done to your little fella (and his equipment) if you do not know how to handle it (And to the bitch's insides too).

To sum up, breeding (and particularly studding) is not for the feint hearted - or for the novice.... IF you are determined to go ahead, then in addition to the health tests already mentioned, I would suggest you contact a stud owner and ask them to observe/assist in a few matings before you even contemplate going ahead with this mating.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Dundee said:


> sylneo, having read the thread from the beginning, it would seem that you are determined to breed, in spite of the excellent advice that you have been given. One thing that hasn't been mentioned though, and given that you seem to love your dog as he is, should be mentioned.....
> 
> Putting your pet dog to stud is quite likely to change his behaviour and personality (and for some reason this is even more common in small breeds than large breeds).
> 
> ...


Hi,
It seems to me like you already done this so you definitely got experience. Now what you wrote nobody has mentioned these things before and this is definitely is somethin g that i would have to learn and I do take your advice on board as i realy don't want none of the dogs to get hurt of cousrse mainly mine as i do love him to bits and i love the way he is as i love everything about him. He's my baby, my soulmate. So thank you very much for taking your time and reading this thread and thank you very much for your advice


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> Hi
> 
> Have you considered the amount of excrement, widdle and spew a litter of pups will produce?
> 
> You will be forever and a day cleaning up poop.


Yes but i have the dog and my friend has the bitch so the pups would be with her as they should be with the mother.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

clueless said:


> It is not just the fact it will put the dog/ bitch off, they could seriously hurt themselves if you do not know what you are doing. I take it the bitch and dog are maiden


I said it .........


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> Yes but i have the dog and my friend has the bitch so the pups would be with her as they should be with the mother.


But him cocking his leg and weeing indoors will be in your home, and it won't be just while there are pups, it's likely to change him permanently.

It's one reason why I would NEVER use a pet to stud.... the change in personality ruins the dog as a pet.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> I said it .........


Nowhere near as detailed as dundee did, sorry


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> I said it .........


 sorry.... ok perhaps I didn't read it as thoroughly as I thought....


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## ryan (Oct 15, 2008)

clueless said:


> I said it .........


Some people only hear what they want to hear.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Nowhere near as detailed as dundee did, sorry


True but you do not need to be sorry Its okay


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

Dundee said:


> But him cocking his leg and weeing indoors will be in your home, and it won't be just while there are pups, it's likely to change him permanently.
> 
> It's one reason why I would NEVER use a pet to stud.... the change in personality ruins the dog as a pet.


I know as you did advice me on that. I was talking about the pups and replying to a message


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

ryan said:


> Some people only hear what they want to hear.


True And read what they want to read I suppose


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Not half as much as it will hurt you if your dog is damaged by your trying to mate him to a bitch who is not ready and you have to have him put down. Not half as much as it will hurt you if the puppies are born deformed and all have to be destroyed. What about the owner of the bitch? Is he/she prepared and able to pay for an emergency C-section if needed (circa £1,000) If the puppies can't be sold, can your friend give them a home? What if the new owners have trouble with their pups? Is your friend able to rehome them? And that's just touching the tip of the problems you and your friend could face.
> 
> Sorry to be so blunt but for goodness' sake give up this silly idea.





clueless said:


> I said it .........


And I said it!


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> And I said it!


Oh so you did and detailed LOL


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

OK I confess.... I didn't read every post.... it was a long thread....

 Sorry...


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## ryan (Oct 15, 2008)

Why do you still think it is a good idea when so many people are advising you it isn't, are they all wrong?


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

ryan said:


> Why do you still think it is a good idea when so many people are advising you it isn't, are they all wrong?


But some seem to think its okay !!!! so maybe thats why well IMO only of course although maybe imo not allowed going by some of the threads started recently
ps Ooops must remember to stop rolling eyes


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> And I said it!


Ok fair enough, I put my hands up. I'm sorry guys(spellweaver and cluless). You said it and i admit to it but it's a very long thread and there's been so much said, advice as well as lods of sarcastic and nasty messages so I'm sorry


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> Oh so you did and detailed LOL


Here we go again. Would love to see you in my situation. It's either sacastic comments or rolling your eyes.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Ok fair enough, I put my hands up. I'm sorry guys(spellweaver and cluless). You said it and i admit to it but it's a very long thread and there's been so much said, advice as well as lods of sarcastic and nasty messages so I'm sorry


Yopu maybe should have mentioned the advice you got as well then sylneo when you was spouting about sarcastic comments on the please read thread. I did try and give you advice and of course it was only IMO so you did/ do not need to heed it That is totally up to you


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> ps Ooops must remember to stop rolling eyes


Well maybe you should


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Here we go again. Would love to see you in my situation. It's either sacastic comments or rolling your eyes.


Ooops I just mentioned on another thread that I should try and stop rolling eyes I just love that smilie though and this one
And I do not mean to be rude to you BUT i would never be in your situation re breeding crossbreeds Sorry


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

ryan said:


> Why do you still think it is a good idea when so many people are advising you it isn't, are they all wrong?


Well I never said they are all wrong, have I??
Show me 1 message whre I made that statement
Maybe I'm just forgetful 

No answer?


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## ryan (Oct 15, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Here we go again. Would love to see you in my situation. It's either sacastic comments or rolling your eyes.


If I were in your situation I would realise that I was wrong and give up my stupid plans to breed two random mutts together.


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> Ooops I just mentioned on another thread that I should try and stop rolling eyes I just love that smilie though and this one
> And I do not mean to be rude to you BUT i would never be in your situation re breeding crossbreeds Sorry


I think you misunderstood me so i'll refrase it.
Imagine to be in any situation where you asking for help and advice and mostly you getting sarcastic comments and the rolling eyes face.
I like the smilies too but I prefer to use the  ones and sometimes


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## ryan (Oct 15, 2008)

sylneo said:


> I think you misunderstood me so i'll refrase it.
> Imagine to be in any situation where you asking for help and advice and mostly you getting sarcastic comments and the rolling eyes face.
> I like the smilies too but I prefer to use the  ones and sometimes


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> But some seem to think its okay !!!! so maybe thats why well IMO only of course although maybe imo not allowed going by some of the threads started recently


Sorry but i did'nt get this


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

ryan said:


>


Huh


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Sorry but i did'nt get this


Well there is members on here who will give you advice on breeding your pet but unfortunately I gave as much as my Ethics of Breeding would allow.


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Yeah these ones are good too


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> Yeah these ones are good too


Well I definitely prefer to see them ones rather than


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

scratches head one for me


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

From now on I will not use any but just refer people to my avata pic LOL Says it all really


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> From now on I will not use any but just refer people to my avata pic LOL Says it all really


Come to think of it, you're right


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

james1 said:


> scratches head one for me


Huh


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

clueless said:


> From now on I will not use any but just refer people to my avata pic LOL Says it all really


fussy and always right Princes


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Come to think of it, you're right


Its a good one isn't it LOL


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

james1 said:


> fussy and always right Princes


Avatar Pic go look LOL


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> Its a good one isn't it LOL


Lol actually yes
I never really noticed it that much before but now it's poking my eyes out lol


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

sylneo said:


> Lol actually yes


Thank You. It will do a few threads save me getting into trouble


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

is completely lost so thought id add some more pointless stuff... that will get overlooked later on 

apart from the wounded dog avatar course


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

james1 said:


> is completely lost so thought id add some more pointless stuff... that will get overlooked later on /QUOTE]
> 
> Lol that made me laugh


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

Sylneo You have had a lot of negative comments and I noticed Mark(petforums) had started a thread re information etc... and you agreed with him so here is one of Petforums links for you to read which is not sarcy or nasty in anyway it might help you decide
Offering your dog at stud - Pet Encyclopedia


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## sylneo (Oct 13, 2008)

clueless said:


> Sylneo You have had a lot of negative comments and I noticed Mark(petforums) had started a thread re information etc... and you agreed with him so here is one of Petforums links for you to read which is not sarcy or nasty in anyway it might help you decide
> Offering your dog at stud - Pet Encyclopedia


Thanks


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