# Norfolk mountain dogs (sharp eagles)



## Pips82 (Jul 27, 2014)

Hey,

Just wondered if anyone can help? We have been wanting to get a dog and my partner recently worked at a house where they had a norfolk mountain dog that he fell in love with. After reading up on the breed it is the perfect dog for us only we can't find any breeders.

Does anyone breed this dog or knows someone who does? We are in Gloucestershire so looking for a breeder not too far away 2-3hrs tops.

Thanks


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

What on _earth_ are you talking about?!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

This awful puppy farmer who has been on and off here a few times Sixstar Norfolk Mountain Dogs - Puppies... with Love and Care.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

OP I wouldn't touch the breeder of these dogs with a barge pole TBH. Perhaps have a look around at other breeds / crosses / rescues you like and source one from a good, ethical breeder rather than someone exploiting dogs to make money. People on here can help you.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

I kind of thought it was a wind up (where are the mountains in Norfolk?) but then I came across this... Norfolk Mountain Dogs - Puppies... with Love and Care.

ETA: on closer inspection, is that site one person mixing whatever breeds to mass produce interestingly named dogs??


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Never heard of them, but upon doing a quick Google search it appears it's another 'designer' dog - a Shar Pei/Beagle mix. 

I doubt very much you will find any responsible breeder of these dogs as they are not a common crossbreed at all.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Norfolk doesn't have any mountains.

It's as flat as a witch's tit!

:confused1:


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Dogless said:


> This awful puppy farmer who has been on and off here a few times Sixstar Norfolk Mountain Dogs - Puppies... with Love and Care.


Oh good grief


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Puppy farmer, run for the hills, but not in Norfolk as they don't have any.


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## JenKyzer (Jun 25, 2013)

What is it about this 'breed' you fell for? I can point you to plenty of Shar-Pei rescues (pups/adults) if it's the Shar-Pei traits you like . As cute as those pups are.. there is no need to cross these two breeds, IMO and the breeders pockets don't deserve to be lined.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Argh why would you breed that mix??? Oh right, to make money....

Yeah they are cute, but you can get cute puppies from reputable breeders too, and rescues. I'd run a mile from this breeder and their pups.


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

OP, you might like the sound of this "breed" (I say that in quotes because it is a mix breed) but take a good look at that website that was linked to. 

You will notice that they advertise selling a lot of different breeds / mix breeds of dog. Ask yourself how it would be possible to keep and sell this number of adult dogs and puppies without skimping on the care of the dogs.

I have seen a place like this with my own eyes and it is not pretty, really not pretty. Dogs are kept in small pens often with no outside exercise, they are bred and bred until they can breed no more. Often there is one or two members of staff looking after as many as 100 dogs. These dogs are not happy, they show stereotypic behaviours - caused by stress and boredom. These dogs are not walked, the only contact they have with humans is someone coming in once or twice a day to shove food and water on the floor. 

Neither the adult dogs nor the puppies are healthy, health is of no concern to these breeders. They do not health test their dogs, vet care is very limited or non existent, the dogs are tossed aside like trash once they are of no use. 

Please do not line the pockets of breeders like this. Members here will help you find a real breed and a responsible breeder if you wish to go down that route. If you want to help one of the dogs brought up in the environment mentioned above, they find themselves in rescues, often with behaviour issues, incredibly nervous, but the most loving dogs underneath all that.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I'd also add they have been known, from their previous posts on here, to allow entire animals in their kennels to be used for reproductive uses, without the owners knowledge. Puppy farmers, through and through.


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

Little P said:


> ETA: on closer inspection, is that site one person mixing whatever breeds to mass produce interestingly named dogs??


Yes it is.

The owner of the establishment used to be a member on here and was called out for breeding multiple litters at any one time. The testimonials on the website showed that many of the dogs he bred developed health problems, but he continues to make false claims of hybrid vigour in his dogs and continues to breed.

OP, the "Norfolk Mountain Dog" is not a breed. It's a crossbreed produced by a greedy and unethical breeder (who happens to live in Norfolk) who you would be wise to avoid. "Sharp Eagles" are not a breed either.
There are often Shar Peis, Beagles, and crossbreeds of the two in UK rescues, and many reputable breeders to choose from.

Have you considered attending Discover Dogs? http://www.discoverdogs.org.uk/


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'd also add they have been known, from their previous posts on here, to *allow entire animals in their kennels to be used for reproductive uses, without the owners knowledge*. Puppy farmers, through and through.


That makes me incredibly angry 

How on earth can someone even _think_ about doing that?? It beggars belief.....


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

This group has some posts on Clay Halll Farm, which is the source of these Norfolk Mountain Dogs.

(The more I type the so-called breed's name, the more ridiculous it sounds! Norfolk is probably one of the flattest places on earth! )


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

PLEASE AVOID...

This "breeder" has threatened a few of us with legal action because we dared to call him out on his bad breeding. He sticks which ever dogs together and even ones with health conditions. 

His sharpie's have been found to have genetic eye conditions but he still breeds from them. People who've viewed puppies from there have been disgusted in what they've seen. 

Please try to find a good breeder and don't fall for the "cross breeds are healthier than pedigree's" ruse, it's complete BS.


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## Portie (Aug 25, 2013)

What an awful site - I see looking at the contact address that it's actually Clay Hall...?


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Now call me cynical, but does anyone else wonder if this thread is just a bit of free advertising for the puppy farmer? 
If so, it went a bit pearshaped didn`t it? :dita:


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

OP please, please avoid. These are puppy farmers at their finest 

I do wonder why these dogs got the name..Neither dog involved in the cross are known "mountain dogs" and there isn't a hill to be seen in Norfolk, let alone a mountain


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> You could not get a more stereotypical puppy farmer. Chucking together whatever dogs with working reproductive systems they have to hand, giving them daft names and flogging them to whatever unsuspecting or wilfully ignorant people will buy them.
> 
> They're all daft crosses but some of them are horrific. The so called "ba-shars" especially. Horrendously heavy wrinkling, sore looking eyes, deformed forelegs. Just awful.
> 
> With all the information available so easily I despair that places like this are still in business :nonod:


Sadly I know someone who bought a ba shar from them. My heart sank when I heard they had bought this mix from someone near Diss. Whilst being a loveable comical character. Within weeks he developed problems with his eyes. Within 6 months he developed such awful bone conformation where the two bones in the front legs grew at different rates and couldn't support the enormously out of proportion weight of his body.

He faces multiple operations as he grows.

His owners face devastation and traumatic decisions.

The breeders face is one of indifference. When they called to warn them of the problems their pup was facing they were dismissed.

This breeding 'farm' (as that is exactly what it is) is unscrupulous in the lack of care and support they offer.

Any one please think about the conformation and breed traits of any cross breed bought. Some dogs are just not meant to be mixed.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

I think the very fact he breeds dogs called Sham-Bulls
sums him up completely


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Now call me cynical, but does anyone else wonder if this thread is just a bit of free advertising for the puppy farmer?
> If so, it went a bit pearshaped didn`t it? :dita:


Hmmmm I did wonder this too...that and we haven't seen hair nore hide of the OP 



GingerRogers said:


> Sadly I know someone who bought a ba shar from them. My heart sank when I heard they had bought this mix from someone near Diss. Whilst being a loveable comical character. Within weeks he developed problems with his eyes. Within 6 months he developed such awful bone conformation where the two bones in the front legs grew at different rates and couldn't support the enormously out of proportion weight of his body.
> 
> He faces multiple operations as he grows.
> 
> ...


Oh GR that is just heartbreaking 

But goes to show what happens when you buy from a puppy farm who have no scruples about breeding and selling animals with major health problems :nonod:

That poor pup. I know all about pei eye problems as my rescue girl has them, but my rescue has supported us through it all and I was told of it before I even saw the puppies. Plus she will never be bred from.

But those bone problems sound horrendous, I can't believe that the breeders just don't give a sh!t about one of their dogs suffering like that, just heartbreaking...


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Thankfully the couple who own him are actually pretty sensible and caring people. I know some would say if that's the case why did they buy him but unless you come on forums such as this I think too many people are unaware of the implications of just buying a pup without doing your research. They did have him insured with a lifetime policy and they are committed to giving him the best life possible.

They may have been naive when they bought him but they are certainly all too aware of the issues now, as are all their family and friends. One of the only good thing to come out of it all. 

There does need to be a campaign of education I think but how and who would be interested in promoting it without it seen as an agenda. IE a rescue would be seen as promoting their own needs, kc just promoting their members and Joe public would think it was to get people to buy what they see as expensive pedigrees. Not all hobby or accidental breeders are bad, not all byb are, not all pedigree kc registered breeders are good of course, but I think I can safely say puppy farmers are unscrupulous criminal minded individuals who simply have £££ signs floating in front of their eyes and no care for the dogs they breed nor the people who innocently buy them.

But that's all another debate I guess.

As to those who question why the name 'Norfolk mountain dog' well it's the breeders idea of a joke which shows exactly how seriously they take the cross breeding of ill suited dogs.


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## norfolkgirl4 (Aug 2, 2014)

Hey all,
Ive recently picked up a 'norfolk mountain dog' from the clay hall breeder that you are all discussing and i must say i thought the place was wonderful.. we were shown round and all the dogs were in wonderful condition playing and running around together, very socialised. We were shown both parents and all looked healthy and well we also got to see many of the other dogs all in lovely living quarters. 
Ours in particular is a little gem no health problems much better than what problems a full shar pei would have given us and the gentleman just wanted him to go to a good home and was more than happy to take a reduced price just to see him have a family.
None of this to me screams puppy farm and makes me wonder how much of this is hear say and who has actually seen the place. Im also not saying that those who have had puppies with problems from there are lying but many pups and dogs have health problems whether they are from farms or not.. 
Just wanted to stick up for a lovely place and people who gave me and many others lovely healthy happy pups


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## pinklizzy (Dec 19, 2009)

That website is just awful and so many litters on there!!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

OK - I know I shouldn't, but ...



norfolkgirl4 said:


> Hey all,
> Ive recently picked up a 'norfolk mountain dog' from the clay hall breeder that you are all discussing


Did you really? How about some posting some pics? 



norfolkgirl4 said:


> Ours in particular is a little gem no health problems


How do you know if you've only recently picked her up? The posters above with problems didn't find out about them straight away.



norfolkgirl4 said:


> much better than what problems a full shar pei would have given us


Any problems you think you might possibly get from a Shar Pei you might also get from a Shar Pei cross - plus all the problems of the breed it's been crossed with - plus a host of other skeletal problems from mixing two breeds that shouldn't really have been mixed together. Did the "nice" gentleman explain that to you?



norfolkgirl4 said:


> was more than happy to take a reduced price just to see him have a family.


Time was when mongrels (because that's what you've bought, a mongrel) were free to good homes, not given ridiculous names and sold to gullible people at ridiculous prices.

If you really and truly have bought a dog from this place, then I hope the dog has a long, happy and pain-free life.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

norfolkgirl4 said:


> Hey all,
> Ive recently picked up a 'norfolk mountain dog' from the clay hall breeder that you are all discussing and i must say i thought the place was wonderful.. we were shown round and all the dogs were in wonderful condition playing and running around together, very socialised. We were shown both parents and all looked healthy and well we also got to see many of the other dogs all in lovely living quarters.
> Ours in particular is a little gem no health problems much better than what problems a full shar pei would have given us and the gentleman just wanted him to go to a good home and was more than happy to take a reduced price just to see him have a family.
> None of this to me screams puppy farm and makes me wonder how much of this is hear say and who has actually seen the place. Im also not saying that those who have had puppies with problems from there are lying but many pups and dogs have health problems whether they are from farms or not..
> Just wanted to stick up for a lovely place and people who gave me and many others lovely healthy happy pups


Apart from this post screaming to me this is actually the "breeder" responding.

- I just have to point out dogs running around "socialising" doesn't mean it's a good thing.
- health problems don't nesscaryily appear straight away. 
- you also need to look at the definition of a puppy farm, it doesn't nesscaryily mean they are kept in bad conditions but that lots of different dog breeds are bred purely for financial gain, with often no health checks done and female dogs constantly churning out puppies.

Also puppy farmers are getting smarter, they n the general public is getting more wise to it all, so they will often create fronts to there business hiding the real problems in the back.

I hope if you really did by a dog from a puppy farm that it turns out ok for you.


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## davedaviesuk (Jan 12, 2014)

norfolkgirl4 said:


> Hey all,
> Ive recently picked up a 'norfolk mountain dog' from the clay hall breeder that you are all discussing and i must say i thought the place was wonderful.. we were shown round and all the dogs were in wonderful condition playing and running around together, very socialised. We were shown both parents and all looked healthy and well we also got to see many of the other dogs all in lovely living quarters.
> Ours in particular is a little gem no health problems much better than what problems a full shar pei would have given us and the gentleman just wanted him to go to a good home and was more than happy to take a reduced price just to see him have a family.
> None of this to me screams puppy farm and makes me wonder how much of this is hear say and who has actually seen the place. Im also not saying that those who have had puppies with problems from there are lying but many pups and dogs have health problems whether they are from farms or not..
> Just wanted to stick up for a lovely place and people who gave me and many others lovely healthy happy pups


You won't get away with this one. There are too many knowledgeable people on this forum. :smilewinkgrin:

Edit: I've just Googled 'norfolk mountain dog' and guess which thread comes up......


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

norfolkgirl4 said:


> Hey all,
> Ive recently picked up a 'norfolk mountain dog' from the clay hall breeder that you are all discussing and i must say i thought the place was wonderful.. we were shown round and all the dogs were in wonderful condition playing and running around together, very socialised. We were shown both parents and all looked healthy and well we also got to see many of the other dogs all in lovely living quarters.
> Ours in particular is a little gem no health problems much better than what problems a full shar pei would have given us and the gentleman just wanted him to go to a good home and was more than happy to take a reduced price just to see him have a family.
> None of this to me screams puppy farm and makes me wonder how much of this is hear say and who has actually seen the place. Im also not saying that those who have had puppies with problems from there are lying but many pups and dogs have health problems whether they are from farms or not..
> Just wanted to stick up for a lovely place and people who gave me and many others lovely healthy happy pups


Sadly your lack of knowledge is what fuels the puppy farm trade. Can I ask how you became aware of this mix? and why you chose to go this route with all the knowledge and advice you can find at your fingertips on the right way to purchase a puppy? Was it money? The 'I must have one right now' mentality, or what?


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

norfolkgirl4 said:


> Hey all,
> Ive recently picked up a 'norfolk mountain dog' from the clay hall breeder that you are all discussing and i must say i thought the place was wonderful.. we were shown round and all the dogs were in wonderful condition playing and running around together, very socialised. We were shown both parents and all looked healthy and well we also got to see many of the other dogs all in lovely living quarters.
> Ours in particular is a little gem no health problems much better than what problems a full shar pei would have given us and the gentleman just wanted him to go to a good home and was more than happy to take a reduced price just to see him have a family.
> None of this to me screams puppy farm and makes me wonder how much of this is hear say and who has actually seen the place. Im also not saying that those who have had puppies with problems from there are lying but many pups and dogs have health problems whether they are from farms or not..
> Just wanted to stick up for a lovely place and people who gave me and many others lovely healthy happy pups


So you just happened to get a puppy, join this forum and stumble across this thread (several pages back)? Pull the other one


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

"Parents look healthy" hahaha made me laugh considering the breeder admitted on his own website that a few of their "breeding bitches" have genetic problems.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

norfolkgirl4 said:


> Hey all,
> Ive recently picked up a 'norfolk mountain dog' from the clay hall breeder that you are all discussing and i must say i thought the place was wonderful.. we were shown round and all the dogs were in wonderful condition playing and running around together, very socialised. We were shown both parents and all looked healthy and well we also got to see many of the other dogs all in lovely living quarters.
> Ours in particular is a little gem no health problems much better than what problems a full shar pei would have given us and the gentleman just wanted him to go to a good home and was more than happy to take a reduced price just to see him have a family.
> None of this to me screams puppy farm and makes me wonder how much of this is hear say and who has actually seen the place. Im also not saying that those who have had puppies with problems from there are lying but many pups and dogs have health problems whether they are from farms or not..
> Just wanted to stick up for a lovely place and people who gave me and many others lovely healthy happy pups


What do you get if you cross a bulldog and a shihtzu? The above post is what.......


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I googled it and got this

Clay Hall Kennels. - Puppies... with Love and Care.


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

What I still fail to understand is, why, with all this technology, the internet, mobile 'phones that do everything, FB and Twitter, why on earth do people still buy these puppies? Even educated people do! Now 20 odd years ago there was an excuse, we did not have access to information at our finger tips, we had to go to the library.... Today, most people have access to the internet, there is absolutely NO excuse or reason to buy these cross-breed puppies. If they're not being sold, then there is no point in breeding them.... but as I say, I really do not understand people and their mentality of buying such puppies.... very disheartening. 

Rightly or wrongly, I now have no sympathy for those who do buy puppies from farmers or such breeders, there is no excuse for ignorance today. A simple Google search unearths so much information, but, a fool and his money and all that......

The whole shebang makes me sick.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

norfolkgirl4 said:


> Hey all,
> Ive recently picked up a 'norfolk mountain dog' from the clay hall breeder that you are all discussing and i must say i thought the place was wonderful.. we were shown round and all the dogs were in wonderful condition playing and running around together, very socialised. We were shown both parents and all looked healthy and well we also got to see many of the other dogs all in lovely living quarters.
> Ours in particular is a little gem no health problems much better than what problems a full shar pei would have given us and the gentleman just wanted him to go to a good home and was more than happy to take a reduced price just to see him have a family.
> None of this to me screams puppy farm and makes me wonder how much of this is hear say and who has actually seen the place. Im also not saying that those who have had puppies with problems from there are lying but many pups and dogs have health problems whether they are from farms or not..
> Just wanted to stick up for a lovely place and people who gave me and many others lovely healthy happy pups


To this and the page on the website Blitz linked...
Its not so much the conditions dogs and puppies are kept in, in this case, its more the sheer number of puppies that are being churned out, which is quite frankly appalling.
"more soon" on the puppy page?? Obviously no thought to quality, just numbers.

I see no mention of genetic screenings/health tests on the parents. Actually I see no info on parents at all! Just page after page of previous pups... 
Most good breeders are PROUD to show off the adults they take litters from. After all, if the dog is worth breeding from, would wouldnt want to show them off!


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Exactly, no photo's or info on parents and the photo's the breeder did put up on this forum showed serious concerns including breeding from a dog that could very easily be a pittbull. (love the breed but its irresponsible to breed them when, if they are found they will be killed)

Also breeding a small bitch (Jack Russell) to a large male (Basset x Shar Pei)

He's got at least 21 breeding bitches and many people have spoken out about him including "Puppy trafficking" blog but they all got threatened with legal action and websites where reported causing them to be closed down. 

Seems this prick doesn't want anyone to speak out about him and his ethics instead of actually giving a crap and changing the way he breeds.

I have loads of proof saved on my comp for anyone who wants it.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

When they call the puppies "hybrids" it makes me think of werewolves ut:

I actually had never looked at the website until Blitz posted the link about a (cyber attack LOL) and I am not being funny here but the amount of dogs that they "breed" is stupid. Not to mention the odd and weird combinations.....

Do people not realise that there are reasons why certain breeds are not mixed together?

It's not evolution, it's stupidity and I feel sorry for the puppies.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

norfolkgirl4 said:


> Hey all,
> Ive recently picked up a 'norfolk mountain dog' from the clay hall breeder that you are all discussing and i must say i thought the place was wonderful.. we were shown round and all the dogs were in wonderful condition playing and running around together, very socialised. We were shown both parents and all looked healthy and well we also got to see many of the other dogs all in lovely living quarters.
> Ours in particular is a little gem no health problems much better than what problems a full shar pei would have given us and the gentleman just wanted him to go to a good home and was more than happy to take a reduced price just to see him have a family.
> None of this to me screams puppy farm and makes me wonder how much of this is hear say and who has actually seen the place. Im also not saying that those who have had puppies with problems from there are lying but many pups and dogs have health problems whether they are from farms or not..
> Just wanted to stick up for a lovely place and people who gave me and many others lovely healthy happy pups


What health tests were in place on the parents?

I know Gary, from Clay Hall Kennels, would not accept your pup back if anything were wrong, as he's posted on here (before he got banned) to say as much. Ie, he isn't responsible for any pups with health defects that they breed, so they just breed them, sell them, and it's up to the puppy buyer to deal with any health issues. The fact that they've bred on from parents with health defects, well, ain't that just great!!!


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Hmmm what makes me think this is the breeder trying to promote their puppy farming of unhealthy and over bred dogs?? :idea:



Spellweaver said:


> Any problems you think you might possibly get from a Shar Pei you might also get from a Shar Pei cross - plus all the problems of the breed it's been crossed with - plus a host of other skeletal problems from mixing two breeds that shouldn't really have been mixed together. Did the "nice" gentleman explain that to you?


This^^ We on this forum are always saying that mixed breeds are not always healthier than pure breeds, and I have a shar pei mix who has very bad eyes and some skin problems. She is a complete mix as well. Also just because a puppy or dog _looks_ healthy at first glance, doesn't mean it won't grow up to have major health problems, or that parents have problems not easily noticeable.



Lexiedhb said:


> What do you get if you cross a bulldog and a shihtzu? The above post is what.......


:lol: made me giggle - so very true!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Oh pee off....... no such bladdy thing ......


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

On the day I see a mountain in Norfolk, then I'll believe in the norfolk mountain dog. In other words, never.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

*sigh*

Same s**t different year...


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

miljar said:


> [B]he picture, above, is a Norfolk Mountain Dog puppy[/B].[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
> 
> The picture above is a picture of a mongrel.
> 
> Ain't no such thing as a Norfolk Mountain Dog. :out:


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