# Just set up new aquarium



## cryinskey

Hi Looking for advice , I have just reset my old fish tank up and this time would like to keep tropical fish . So am looking for advice . Last night I set the filter up put the old gravel in and put some plastic plants in three of them are the plants I had in previously , I did change the filter media for this new set up ( it has carbon and the sponge in it) . The tank is a 40 gallon tank . I added water to the tank last night and have the filter working and the light on (I have not added the heater yet) . Could any one give me advice on the fishless cycling as I do not really want to cycle my tank by using fish . Any advice appreciated on what we do now to get our tank to the point we can add fish .


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## NaomiM

Hi and welcome to the forum  Great to see someone researching fishless cycling before adding fish 

For a fishless cycle you will need to get (if you don't already have them):
- A heater (the cycle is much faster at higher temps).
- A good liquid drop test kit such as the API Master kit, with tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ideally pH too.
- An ammonia solution such as Jeyes Kleenoff - make sure it's just ammonia and water, and doesn't contain surfatcants or any other chemicals.
- Some dosing syringes.

There's a link here that explains the cycle in detail, with step-by step instructions: Tropical Fish Forums UK - Setting up your new Aquarium

If you can get hold of a small amount of media from an established filter, this will greatly speed up the cycling process - but get the other stuff first. Also be aware that you should only dose ammonia to 2ppm rather than 4ppm if doing this, as higher concentrations could actually kill off the established colony of nitrifying bacteria.

One other point - ditch the carbon from the filter, it will mess up your cycle. Add another normal filter sponge or some ceramic media instead. Carbon doesn't have much benefit once the tank is cycled anyway, unless you want to remove medications from the water at any stage, or if you have bogwood in the tank and don't like the tannin-coloured water (which is actually beneficial for many fish, but some people don't like it).

Hope that all makes sense - feel free to ask if you have questions at any stage!


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## cryinskey

Hi NaomiM ,
Thank you for your reply it will be a big help to us , we will go buy our heater tomorrow (it far more difficult setting up than I remember haha) . I did read about using fish to cycle your tank but it does not feel right to me to get fish for them to die but that just personal opinion) . Will definitely get the items you mention , unfortunately I do not know anyone with a tank so cant borrow any media . Do we need to do any water changes .
I have seen a treatment you can put in if I remember right it called fluval cycle is this any good , obviously I would still make sure my tank was safe to add fish . 
When we are ready to add fish would be adding a shoal at a time so it is not too much too soon . Our tank is 40 gallons but unsure how many fish we could eventually have , we like the neon tetras , guppies , danio, white cloud minnow , platys as a choice for our little fish , then we would like two bigger fish maybe gouramis or a catfish type fish . Any advice on how many fish we could have would also be appreciated , have read on the internet that one 1" fish per gallon of water but I dont know how reliable this information is .



NaomiM said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum  Great to see someone researching fishless cycling before adding fish
> 
> For a fishless cycle you will need to get (if you don't already have them):
> - A heater (the cycle is much faster at higher temps).
> - A good liquid drop test kit such as the API Master kit, with tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ideally pH too.
> - An ammonia solution such as Jeyes Kleenoff - make sure it's just ammonia and water, and doesn't contain surfatcants or any other chemicals.
> - Some dosing syringes.
> 
> There's a link here that explains the cycle in detail, with step-by step instructions: Tropical Fish Forums UK - Setting up your new Aquarium
> 
> If you can get hold of a small amount of media from an established filter, this will greatly speed up the cycling process - but get the other stuff first. Also be aware that you should only dose ammonia to 2ppm rather than 4ppm if doing this, as higher concentrations could actually kill off the established colony of nitrifying bacteria.
> 
> One other point - ditch the carbon from the filter, it will mess up your cycle. Add another normal filter sponge or some ceramic media instead. Carbon doesn't have much benefit once the tank is cycled anyway, unless you want to remove medications from the water at any stage, or if you have bogwood in the tank and don't like the tannin-coloured water (which is actually beneficial for many fish, but some people don't like it).
> 
> Hope that all makes sense - feel free to ask if you have questions at any stage!


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## cryinskey

Thanks for that information Naomi , We have now added the heater , and set it at 25 , We have put in water conditioner and have done two days dosing of the fluval biological enhancer. We have bought some test strips and I tested the water yesterday and will also test the water again today as it has had another dose of the biological enhancer .


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## NaomiM

Hi, sorry I didn't see your earlier message until now.



> I have seen a treatment you can put in if I remember right it called fluval cycle is this any good , obviously I would still make sure my tank was safe to add fish .


The jury's still out on the so-called 'bacteria in a bottle' products. Some say they help, some say they're useless, still others say they can actually slow the cycle down. My personal opinion is that, if you have no access to a source of mature media (which is the best way to kick-start the cycle), then it's worth a try.



> When we are ready to add fish would be adding a shoal at a time so it is not too much too soon .


After a fishless cycle the filter can cope with adding all or most of the final stock straight away. In fact it's often considered better to do so, as otherwise the filter will adjust to the amount of fish that are in the tank, and you may then get a mini-cycle when you add more.

For example, I've just set up my 2nd tank, which is a 135l. After doing a fishless cycle, I immediately added 23 fish, all of which are doing fine. There are a few more fish I hope to add later, which are more sensitive species that require a longer-established tank (as they feed on algae and the microorganisms that build up after time), but the bulk of my stock all went in at once.



> Our tank is 40 gallons but unsure how many fish we could eventually have , we like the neon tetras , guppies , danio, white cloud minnow , platys as a choice for our little fish , then we would like two bigger fish maybe gouramis or a catfish type fish . Any advice on how many fish we could have would also be appreciated , have read on the internet that one 1" fish per gallon of water but I dont know how reliable this information is .


Aqadvisor.com is a great site for getting an idea of suitable stocking levels for your tank. Another very useful tip is to test your pH and select fish that are suited to your water conditions, as some of the fish on your list (neon tetras, gouramis, many of the catfish species) prefer soft, acidic water while others (platys and guppies in particular) prefer hard, alkaline water. If you keep fish that are suitable for your water, they're likely to live longer, healthier lives.

Temperature is another consideration, bearing in mind the fish you're hoping to get - WCMMs ideally need water at 22 C or below or their lifespan will be shortened, while neons, guppies and gouramis need it a bit higher.



> We have now added the heater , and set it at 25


For a cycling tank, I'd turn it up to 28 or so, or even higher if you don't have live plants. The cycle will go quicker at higher temperatures.

Did you read the link I posted, and have you got hold of an ammonia source such as Jeyes Kleenoff? The bottled bacteria alone will not cycle your tank - at best it will give it a bit of a boost start, but you need to be cycling with ammonia to get your tank truly ready for fish. (Trust me, I've tried with just the bottled bacteria, following the fish shop's instructions, before I knew any better, and it was a disaster )



> We have bought some test strips


It's really worthwhile investing in a liquid test kit such as the API master kit, as the paper test strips are notoriously inaccurate. The API kit is around £20 on Amazon or ebay (or a little more in-store) but has enough tests in it to last you a good couple of years.


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## cryinskey

NaomiM said:


> Hi, sorry I didn't see your earlier message until now.
> 
> The jury's still out on the so-called 'bacteria in a bottle' products. Some say they help, some say they're useless, still others say they can actually slow the cycle down. My personal opinion is that, if you have no access to a source of mature media (which is the best way to kick-start the cycle), then it's worth a try.
> 
> After a fishless cycle the filter can cope with adding all or most of the final stock straight away. In fact it's often considered better to do so, as otherwise the filter will adjust to the amount of fish that are in the tank, and you may then get a mini-cycle when you add more.
> 
> For example, I've just set up my 2nd tank, which is a 135l. After doing a fishless cycle, I immediately added 23 fish, all of which are doing fine. There are a few more fish I hope to add later, which are more sensitive species that require a longer-established tank (as they feed on algae and the microorganisms that build up after time), but the bulk of my stock all went in at once.
> 
> Aqadvisor.com is a great site for getting an idea of suitable stocking levels for your tank. Another very useful tip is to test your pH and select fish that are suited to your water conditions, as some of the fish on your list (neon tetras, gouramis, many of the catfish species) prefer soft, acidic water while others (platys in particular) prefer hard, alkaline water. If you keep fish that are suitable for your water, they're likely to live longer, healthier lives.
> 
> Temperature is another consideration, bearing in mind the fish you're hoping to get - WCMMs ideally need water at 22 C or below or their lifespan will be shortened, while neons, guppies and gouramis need it a bit higher.
> 
> For a cycling tank, I'd turn it up to 28 or so, or even higher if you don't have live plants. The cycle will go quicker at higher temperatures.
> 
> Did you read the link I posted, and have you got hold of an ammonia source such as Jeyes Kleenoff? The bottled bacteria alone will not cycle your tank - at best it will give it a bit of a boost start, but you need to be cycling with ammonia to get your tank truly ready for fish. (Trust me, I've tried with just the bottled bacteria, following the fish shop's instructions, before I knew any better, and it was a disaster )
> 
> It's really worthwhile investing in a liquid test kit such as the API master kit, as the paper test strips are notoriously inaccurate. The API kit is around £20 on Amazon or ebay (or a little more in-store) but has enough tests in it to last you a good couple of years.


Hi Thank you for comments , I have not yet had chance to get the ammonia but am going into town tomorrow so will pick some up . We do have a chemical ammonia test kit ( nutrafin ) and that test is coming out at 0.6 our Ph is 7 Nitrite is 0.5 and nitrate is 40 . Our local aquarium shop does a water test for small fee so tomorrow will also get them to test our water to make sure or see just how accurate the ones I am doing are they do use the chemical one . I have made a start reading the link you sent me it is really informative so far (didnt get to read it last night as my eldest dog goes training classes and my youngster goes training classes on a friday , and gun dog training on a saturday once a month ) . 
I also made a mistake re the size of aquarium it not 40 gallon it 40 litre eventually we will be buying a very large aquarium .


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## NaomiM

40l is quite small, a tad too small for some of the species you mentioned. Zebra danios, while small, are very active fish that need swimming space. The same goes, to a lesser extent, for WCMMs. Most gouramis will outgrow that size tank, and even platys ideally need a little more space. Guppies or neons should be OK, subject to water hardness/pH. Other options you could look into, suitable for nano aquariums, are endlers, chili rasboras, galaxy rasboras (also known as celestial pearl danios; they can't seem to make up their minds whether it's a rasbora or a danio!), ember tetras, pygmy corys and various shrimp - all dependent on water conditions of course.

Or invest in the larger tank sooner rather than later, and maybe use the 40l for a betta 

On another note, it's odd that you're already getting positive readings for ammonia and nitrite when you've not got any ammonia source in the tank yet


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## cryinskey

Hi Naomi , Sorry for delay but full of a virus so not been on much . I decided to have the water checked in the tank yesterday as my ammonia reading had gone from 0.6 to 0 , They said the tank water was perfect for adding fish . Not quite sure why the tank is having such good readings so soon . While I was there I asked for advice re stocking the tank and what we could have in their . It was suggested to get the little tetras and we could have about 8 of them and a slightly bigger fish cannot remember the names . I am having my water rechecked on Saturday and I will take note pad so I can write the fish names down that she mentioned . Will then post them on here for your thoughts . Maybe the biological enhancer has helped with it only been a small tank and we had set the thermometer up originally at 25 but then turned it up to 27 or 28 re your advice . We are having to save up for a larger fish tank as Christmas was a killer financially lol .


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## NaomiM

Hi again,

Don't want to put a downer on things, but your tank won't be ready for fish yet. The water may be perfect now, but your filter won't be cycled as you haven't yet been adding an ammonia source to allow the filter bacteria to develop. So that 'perfect' water won't be perfect once you have fish in there eating and pooing. You need the filter bacteria to get rid of the ammonia produced from fish waste and uneaten food, otherwise your ammonia readings will soon shoot up again and your fish will suffer.

Many fish shops will not tell you this and will advise you to add fish straight away after dosing the fluval cycle etc for a few days, but this is because they don't really care about the welfare of your fish. Their priority is making a profit, and from their point of view it doesn't matter if your fish get sick, because this means you will spend more money on treatments and ultimately on replacement fish if your first ones die.

On the forum we don't have a financial motive, we only care about the welfare of your fish. So I highly recommend you buy some Kleenoff ammonia and do a full fishless cycle before getting any fish.


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## cryinskey

Thanks Naomi , My partner is buying some of the ammonia today so we can start preparing the tank for been ready to add fish . We don't mind waiting for as long as it takes as long as I eventually end up with happy fish


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