# Babies Born at last :D



## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Okay so ive only got 1 out of the two litters that were planned, Oneof the does ate her litter and this was has just had them within the last hour.

Ill try and get picture later on night of teh babies in the nest or tomorrow, then on the 3rd day which will be Tues 7th i can start handling them and ill take the males out then providing this litter isnt buck heavy. Im not sure how many babies there are atm.

Thank god for that i was scared she wouldnt have them and that i would have to take her to the vets tomorrow as a emergancy


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

aww Congrats   do gerbils eat their babies i still cant tell is shes pregnant she always been fat x


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Oh yay!!  Glad to hear that, been worrying since you said about it! Can't wait to see pictures


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

HelloKittyHannah said:


> Oh yay!!  Glad to hear that, been worrying since you said about it! Can't wait to see pictures


I never stop worrying from the day they start to get fat  im suprised im not grey with the amount of worrying i do.

Thankfully i cleaned the cage out today so it wont smell half as bad as it would because i will have to wait now until the babies are about a week and a hald before i can clean them out again.

Ive never had Gerbils so i dont know much about there size when they are pregnant, your best getting in touch with a breeder about it, but i think they may eat there babies if there is something wrong with them or the mother is stress/worried about something.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

lol  I was the same with my hammy! From the moment they were together I was worrying about her. Needn't have bothered, she was a great Mum!

Even though we disagree on what you do with the boys, I can tell you really love your pets  It's nice to see.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

HelloKittyHannah said:


> lol  I was the same with my hammy! From the moment they were together I was worrying about her. Needn't have bothered, she was a great Mum!
> 
> Even though we disagree on what you do with the boys, I can tell you really love your pets  It's nice to see.


Yup i do find it hard to do but its need to be done or ill end up with more mice than i can care for, half the time i get my dad to do it and other times well i wont say my method as i dont want this thread to get hi-jacked and me having to explain myself again.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

She has ate everything so there were no "corpses" this is for safety this way no predators can smell the dead, to be honest thats quiet offensive that you would ask that anyway.

But i cant be arsed arguing over it.

Depending on how many there are, im looking to keep the girls to help my breeding plans.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

sorry if it sounded or came across offenssive

i just wanted to know what they look like

x
x

Congrats again though how do you 'cull' them ?

(again not trying to be offensive im just curious)


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Erm, what a sick thing to want to see 

I too am kinda curious about how you cull them though. Will you pm me? No worries if not


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> sorry if it sounded or came across offenssive
> 
> i just wanted to know what they look like
> 
> ...


If you really must know then i put them into a tub and then into the freezer because they are bald it takes less than a minute for them to fall to sleep, much like in the wild if they get cold they would just go to sleep and not wake up.

As for the mother eating them, some dont eat the bodies some just eat the heads and the other way round and other just eat the whole thing, on te brighter side they get all the protien and stuff back.


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

do all mice eat their babies  x


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

ColeosMummy said:


> do all mice eat their babies  x


no this is the first litter ivew had that has been eaten.

Ive got a picture anyway, just waiting for it tp upload.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

To be honest I think most animals eat their babies if they feel threatened  (Edit to add, not only when they feel threatened, there's a multitude of reasons for it)

Thanks for saying how you do it Mark.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

i think some are hiding under the bedding, not touching them yet tho.









Im still pretty worried as they dont seem ot have milk bands yet but the mum is busy with the nest maybe she hasnt had them all yet, ill check again at 11 before i go to bed.

Am off to boil an egg for her even tho i really dont like them.


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

aww so cute x


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Awwww, my goodness they're cute  I think I see 6.. not sure though! (Little pink nose under the brown bit of paper to the right?)


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

HelloKittyHannah said:


> Awwww, my goodness they're cute  I think I see 6.. not sure though! (Little pink nose under the brown bit of paper to the right?)


My guess would be around 6-8 so i wont have that many to cull hopefully.


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

how many is mum able to keep x


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## StolenkissGerbils (Aug 8, 2008)

I have to say that that method of culling appals me. If you're going to cull them why on earth wouldn't you just take them to the vet? Is it about money?

You say you have let your dad do the culling...bit of a cowardly thing really isn't it? If you're going to cull at least take the responsibility for it.

To ColeosMummy: Gerbils will eat any stillborn there might be in their litter, and if one dies they might eat that one too, or part of it. It would be better to remove them as quick as you can if possible so that mum doesn't get sick. But on the whole gerbils aren't baby eaters, for the most part anyway. Unless the gerbil is just of the murderous variety (it does happen) you shouldn't find that your gerbil eats the litter. However, sometimes if you disturb the litter too early the mother will decide that her nest is threatened and may eat them (in the wild she'd eat them to regain the protein and then go and make a new nest somewhere safer). For that reason you need to leave well alone until the babies come out to play on their own - only disturb them to remove any that might have died.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

StolenkissGerbils said:


> I have to say that that method of culling appals me. If you're going to cull them why on earth wouldn't you just take them to the vet? Is it about money?
> 
> You say you have let your dad do the culling...bit of a cowardly thing really isn't it? If you're going to cull at least take the responsibility for it.


Yes it is about the money would would i take them to the vets and pay a stupid price for them to be put to sleep, when i can do it at home humanly.

I did let my dad do it before as i didnt have the heart to do it but will the past 2 litters ive done it myself just because i cull doesnt mean i dont havea heart.


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## StolenkissGerbils (Aug 8, 2008)

You shouldn't be breeding them if you won't pay to put them to sleep humanely. You have no idea how much they might be suffering in a tub in the freezer! That's absolutely awful.

It's not because you cull that you would be accused of not having a heart. You could put them to sleep properly or even buy the drug from the vet and learn to do it yourself by injecting them. What will get you in hot water is your method. That IS heartless and undeniably cruel.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

StolenkissGerbils said:


> You shouldn't be breeding them if you won't pay to put them to sleep humanely. You have no idea how much they might be suffering in a tub in the freezer! That's absolutely awful.
> 
> It's not because you cull that you would be accused of not having a heart. You could put them to sleep properly or even buy the drug from the vet and learn to do it yourself by injecting them. What will get you in hot water is your method. That IS heartless and undeniably cruel.


Because im not paying for it, and they are being used for snake food so i dont want nothing int here system that could harm teh snake, and dont tell me what i should and shouldnt do.

Many breeders us this method as its the fastest for babies under a week to 10 days old, Try doing a bit of research because you start okay, they are put to sleep properly ive done plenty of research and asked plenty of breeders about it and it takes less than a minute for them to go.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

aww sweet

xx

thanks for sharing that.

Tbh if he hasnt got the money to put them tosleep

He doesnt have many options left..

only Freezer,,starvation,Brick or drowning.

Even though its Wrong its still a tough thing to do and he is giving the others a chance(more of)


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## StolenkissGerbils (Aug 8, 2008)

Honey don't patronise me, I have done plenty of research. Your opinion obviously differs from mine. I'm not surprised you've got yourself into hot water about this twice now. Your tone is argumentative and you basically come across as spoiling for a fight. If you didn't want controversy you should have thought better of enlightning us all on your superbly efficient method of reducing your litter size  It may well be the fastest method (the fastest FREE method) but that is not putting them down properly by any stretch of the imagination. Just because other breeders do it doesn't make it right.

My last comment on the matter.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Good because tbh im stick of see your repsonses now, IF you didnt want an arguement you shouldnt posted should you.

Okay ill start throwing them at a brick wall or floor maybe even break a few neck maybe.

If youve done plenty of research then you would know that its the fastest method, Maybe i can see how much pain they are in if any its only like in the wild if something happned to the mother then the babies would freeze over time.

Just because you dont cull your gerbil litters doesnt mean everyone hasnt got to. This forum is based more on pets and anything like culling becomes offensive to people who are narrow minided and dont see both sides.

Yes maybe i could take them to the vets but why would i want to waste money when it could be useful in bringing up the rest of the litter.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Welllll... a couple of weeks ago I was thinking how horrible it was the way Mark just kills the males etc etc, he really wasn't on my "good person" list. however I will come clean and say I judged far too harshly.
I still don't LIKE that he culls his males, however, I think the way he does it is the best way he CAN do it for the purpose he is using the culled babies for. There aren't many way's you can cull something that size and leave it in an edible state, know what I mean?

And reading his posts you can't deny he cares for his animals. I mean, it's NOT nice that he has to do it, but he never claimed to enjoy it. He just see's it in a matter of fact way. The males are less desirable, harder to home, and snakes have to eat.

I sit on the fence about the culling issue, but I WAS wrong to judge as quickly as I did in the last thread about this. I never will say it's ok, but having thought about it for a couple of weeks I see much more clearly on the issue. Lets give the guy a break.

(I don't admit I'm wrong often!)


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## hilary bradshaw (Mar 9, 2008)

a bit late to this thread, but why on gods earth would anyone want to see half eaten babies??????? SICK! Iwonder if you would feel the same if it was you litter?


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Bit sick isn't it


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

poor babies xx i wouldn't want to see half eaten babies why would someone take a pic? if you'd really like to see hun sureyou could find it somewhere on the net


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

Sorry fo rsounding 'sick' but i dont particuarly wan tot seee eaten babies but im just want to know what they would look like


There is nothing we can do about the fact he will 'cull' them.

tbh i dont see why he cant just let 'mother nature' happen if a pup dies it dies then you can feed it to the snake...
but there ya go he is going ot do it.

i wouldnt be able to put a little wriggling jelly bean(witha tail) in a tub then a freezer.

slowly freezing to death poor little thing, wondering were the warmth of mum has gone and sisters. 

And the though of it havinf its last suckle, Breath, Wriggle,Contact wiht other mice Would just make me feel Sad and i would be like ooohhhh poor thing it doesnt deserve this its come all this way.

Ha you could be killing A 'wonner mouse' that has the answers to everyting and has got a cure for cancer^_^


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Seriously? In one breath you're saying about the poor little mice and it the next breath you wanna see them half eaten!!

I mean really  Wth is up with that?!


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## TinyTashi (May 29, 2008)

HelloKittyHannah said:


> Seriously? In one breath you're saying about the poor little mice and it the next breath you wanna see them half eaten!!
> 
> I mean really  Wth is up with that?!


I was thinkin the same, that is pretty sick!!


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

why do people have to argue  x


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Well I've reported the posts as tbh, I think this is sooo completely inappropriate. I don't set out to argue with people, I just don't get this person though...


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## TinyTashi (May 29, 2008)

not arguin i just dont understand her?


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

i think i need to go to sleep my comps stating to look blury night all x


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## TinyTashi (May 29, 2008)

night night x


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Nite!.......


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

HelloKittyHannah said:


> Well I've reported the posts as tbh, I think this is sooo completely inappropriate. I don't set out to argue with people, I just don't get this person though...


i wanted to see what it looked like Sorry if it offended you but thats the way i work.

i say things withouthinking

Again thats my ADHD/Dyspraxia/autism kicking in ^_^

TBH it was abit un-neccercery to 'report it'

You could have just Pm'd me and i would have happily took it of

xx


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

I wasn't to know you would happily take it off though was I? I didn't want to get into a deeper argument about it, so I've given it to the mods to decide what's appropriate.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2008)

Off to bed now anyway, cya.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

HelloKittyHannah said:


> I wasn't to know you would happily take it off though was I? I didn't want to get into a deeper argument about it, so I've given it to the mods to decide what's appropriate.


You still could have asked.......


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Well it looks like they may die anyway as i dont think the mother is producing milk and i dont have another doe to foster them onto to.

I think i may try hand rearing them.


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

shame you cant get mouse milk and feed them like you can kittens and puppies x


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

ColeosMummy said:


> shame you cant get mouse milk and feed them like you can kittens and puppies x


You do feed them that Lactol Milk Supplement for Kittens and Puppies its called.

anyway ive taken the nanny mouse out as they where trying to suckle from her so maybe she was pushing the mother out.

the nanny mouse is back into my group of 10 females and got a nice welcome back so she should be fine.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2008)

I only just got time to reply to this. Sorry you're having problems with them 

Will keep my fingers crossed that either Mum starts producing or you have great success hand rearing


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

im thinking it was the nanny pushing away the mother as i can see milk bands now  and the mother looks like she is starting to produce more and more now 

Panic over


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2008)

Woohoo  Glad to hear it! 

This is a very determined litter isn't it? Any idea how many there are yet? Any new pics?
They grow so fast you can see them change daily!


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

glad to here they are going better x


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

well i havent had a proper look yet i only noticed some yellowish tummies ill know how many there are on tuesday/wednesday.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2008)

Awww, yeah, you don't wanna risk disturbing them now they are back on the right track. What colours do you expect them to be?


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

TBH honest i havent a clue lol probly get some brokens ( duno the colour ) and some champagne selfs maybe.

Im not botherd about the colour just the coat lengh but the healtha nd temperment comes before both colour and coat lenght tho.

Ive been checking them every hour since they were born so i bet the mother is a little bit pissed off with me now so ill leave them alone for a day or only check them 2-3 times a day.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

aww i love champaings!

they are soo gawjuss looking wellll they all are but i love them ones!


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2008)

Haha, you're a better person than I am if you can refrain from checking them every 5 minutes


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

HelloKittyHannah said:


> Haha, you're a better person than I am if you can refrain from checking them every 5 minutes


I did that with my very first litter i couldnt keep my eyes off them.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2008)

I found it amazing watching my baby hammies growing up. Can't imagine I'd be any different if I bred any more now though lol. I'm nosey anyway 

Do baby mice make noises? My hammies used to squeak a lot


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

HelloKittyHannah said:


> I found it amazing watching my baby hammies growing up. Can't imagine I'd be any different if I bred any more now though lol. I'm nosey anyway
> 
> Do baby mice make noises? My hammies used to squeak a lot


Yeh them squeak and make little ticking noises but the more you handle them to more used to being handled they get.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2008)

Heh, mine squeaked as newborns not as bigger babies. I'd hear them all in the nest squeaking angrily waiting for their food


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

my mice squeak and one went to bite me earlier x


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

ColeosMummy said:


> my mice squeak and one went to bite me earlier x


You might have spooked it or scared it.


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

maybe apparently breeder didn't spend as much time with them as he should x


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

ColeosMummy said:


> maybe apparently breeder didn't spend as much time with them as he should x


Well there is always that i handle mine from day 3 so they are used to being handled even efore they open there eyes


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2008)

Congrats on the babies sorry about one litter though 
Just being nosey why do u breed mice?


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Jem said:


> Congrats on the babies sorry about one litter though
> Just being nosey why do u breed mice?


To improve the health of my stock, Give people a better alternative to sickly pet shop mice which thankfully are becoming a rare site, In the future i plan on showing and i also cull the males within the first week of being born for snake food unless i need them of course.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2008)

I found a white male mouse n he stank dear god bless him he had to live in the concervatory (sp) the cat brought him in, where she found him is anyone's guess


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Jem said:


> I found a white male mouse n he stank dear god bless him he had to live in the concervatory (sp) the cat brought him in, where she found him is anyone's guess


Our first mouse ( when i was about 4 i think ) was a PEW and my brother found that in the garden.

Yup male mice do tend to smell thats why no one wants them which is the reason i cull the males to use as freeders ( i do cull some females aswel tho ) just stops me becoming over run with mice that i cant find homes for.

I keep my mice in the shed so i cant smell them


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2008)

Do u sell the culled babies to pet shops or do snake owners come to you directly?


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Jem said:


> Do u sell the culled babies to pet shops or do snake owners come to you directly?


I dont sell the culled babies i never would i give them to friends with reptiles.

I make no money from the culled babies and i dont makea profit from selling the mice i probly loose more money keep them.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Okay so there are 6 babies and at the moment it looks liek theres 3 boys and 3 girls so ill be culling to

3 girls and maybe 1 boy

Unless anyone wants a boy mouse and can get transport here?


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## sullivan (Aug 29, 2008)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> Okay so ive only got 1 out of the two litters that were planned, Oneof the does ate her litter and this was has just had them within the last hour.
> 
> Ill try and get picture later on night of teh babies in the nest or tomorrow, then on the 3rd day which will be Tues 7th i can start handling them and ill take the males out then providing this litter isnt buck heavy. Im not sure how many babies there are atm.
> 
> Thank god for that i was scared she wouldnt have them and that i would have to take her to the vets tomorrow as a emergancy


Congrats on the litter. Have heard the does can eat there litter if inexperieced stressed or if theres a prob with the babes. Is that right. ? I know ducks will kill there own if touched to early to.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

sullivan said:


> Congrats on the litter. Have heard the does can eat there litter if inexperieced stressed or if theres a prob with the babes. Is that right. ? I know ducks will kill there own if touched to early to.


Yup thats true, its all depends on the doe if she trust you.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

aww 

How do yu choose who to cull 


They could have really lovley personalities 

please dont cull this litter >.<

See if they do find homes please!!!!!!!!!!

x
x
x

PRitti please!!!!
*jumps up and dow*


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> aww
> 
> How do yu choose who to cull
> 
> ...


I take the boys out that how i choose and if i want to keep a boy i choose the biggest, as ive explained before they are really hard to rehome and i dont want a shed full off male mice that i cant use.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

please dont cull them!

just Try and sell them just this once !!!!!


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> I take the boys out that how i choose and if i want to keep a boy i choose the biggest, as ive explained before they are really hard to rehome and i dont want a shed full off male mice that i cant use.


i bought males, sell them all to me i'd take them lol x


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> please dont cull them!
> 
> just Try and sell them just this once !!!!!


Ive still got 4 males from my May 08 litter that no one wanted a male from 20th Aug 08 litter thankfuly i can use him.


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

i want them, my ferrets coming from ur area send them with them lol x


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Sorry but theyll be going unless there are any serious offers.


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## ColeosMummy (Aug 27, 2008)

aww i would if anyone could get them to sheffield,  poor babies x


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

i would take them but i cant get to leeds 


take em to wood green or somthing just this once!!


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Sorry but theyll be going and its not like they are wasted are they.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

just take em to woodgreen or the rspca 

they could be someones loving family pet

i know its not a waste (well it is) but i dont like the fact you freeze them.

it makes me cry thinking about little babies 

being frozen 

ON PURPOSE!!


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> just take em to woodgreen or the rspca
> 
> they could be someones loving family pet
> 
> ...


Owel its life deal with it i refuse to agrue over this again, They arent being wasted there going to feed another animal, If it makes you feel any better i can break there neck they dont feel a thing and are dead straight away.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

ugh noo dont brak thier necks that even worse!!!!

BUT ITS NOT LIFEE IT SHOULDNT BE THAT WAY THEY SHOULD DIE OF OLD AGE!!!

Not in a freezer!

just pay for them to be put to sleep, atleast thats kinder!

Im not argueing im TELling you i think its wrong!!

When you have a kid ill put him/her iin the freezer and feed it to my dog

(joke)
[not that i would as it would be wrong and cruel,But its the same pricible]

yuo make me sick!


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> ugh noo dont brak thier necks that even worse!!!!
> 
> BUT ITS NOT LIFEE IT SHOULDNT BE THAT WAY THEY SHOULD DIE OF OLD AGE!!!
> 
> ...


Good! its nice to be appreciated


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

your not being appriciated UGH i hate the fact that on forums you cant say what you want to say!!! (without being 'told off')

THIER ISS SO MANY THING I WANT TO SAY TO YOU RIGHT NOW ITS UNREAL!!

but i would get kicked of the forum

PLEASE GIVE THEM A CHANCE!!



im begging begging yoo (madcon lyrics) put male mice up for sallee


beggin beggin yhoooooooo dont cull your mice babies!

(it sorta goes^_^)


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> your not being appriciated UGH i hate the fact that on forums you cant say what you want to say!!! (without being 'told off')
> 
> THIER ISS SO MANY THING I WANT TO SAY TO YOU RIGHT NOW ITS UNREAL!!
> 
> ...


Say what you want im sure ive heard worse, thick skinned me


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

i would but ill get reported

A true pet lover wouldnt kill the babies via a freezer

(even though you love ur other mice)

they would get them put to sleep humanely or not atall!!!!!


If you would provide the cage and the trip to my house i woulld have them 

but being the person that you come across as you wouldnt do that even if i payed you


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> i would but ill get reported
> 
> A true pet lover wouldnt kill the babies via a freezer
> 
> ...


Hang on ill pay with it with magic beans anyway im not agruing over this anymore, when youve grown up a little more metally and see that other animals have the right to eat too maybe we can talk.

Why would i want to have some injected into them when they are going to be fed to a snake they need to be kept in a ediable condition or would you prefer people to feed live after it smore natural isnt it ? or would you have a problem with that aswel.

Be this goes any futher i have never fed live, i dont own a reptile of any kind and i do not agree with live feeding.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

it would be about £20 for both!!

I know the snake has to eat but not 
Your mice. its the fact that i know they are alive now and now theyre background and the fact im trying to make a difference to thier lives.

i still get sad when i see them in petshops but i know they are already dead and there is nothing i can do about that.

lol ur talking to someone that rescues mosquitos from being squished.

when i was 5 i remeber rescuing a bee stuck in a spiders web seeing it strugle i couldnt walk away lol so i rescued it (the spider had plenty more dead bugs)

I will never grow up mentally when it comes to animals!ha 

i do agree with live feeding ( in the wild) as its natural but i dont like the fact snakes and other reptiles are kept in smal vivariums in the wild they run/slither around but in viv's they can do that but its very limeted


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2008)

It is sad thinking that the ones that are alive now soon wont be, but arguing with him really isn't going to change his mind now is it?


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

i know but atleast i tried my best for those babies, atleast they dont know theyre fate.

its sad to think that the mum trust him.enough for him to hold them. and then he goes and puts them in the freezer. and hse is like 

I want my baby back baby back baby back baby backCHILi(austin powers)

haaa when the mouse mum is preggers

do you sing to her

(natasha bedingfield) im going to cull your babies im seriosly crazy.


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2008)

Yup you tried


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## Jammy (Sep 15, 2008)

Mark i think best thing you can do is ask the mods to close this thread cos it is no longer about your new litter but a culling debate which we all have strong views on, Just thinking of you as i dont think this will ever end.

Hugs
Juliet


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Jammy said:


> Mark i think best thing you can do is ask the mods to close this thread cos it is no longer about your new litter but a culling debate which we all have strong views on, Just thinking of you as i dont think this will ever end.
> 
> Hugs
> Juliet


I know it would be for the best but i everytime i post a picture of a mouse or a litter its going to come back to the same thing because peopel will start wondering why the number of the litter has gone down and im not going to lie i see no point in it.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

i have said i want to buy 2 boys of him but he refused ! as he doesnt trust me!

Honestly, im not going to harm them , or him for that matter!!




it made me cross.


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> i have said i want to buy 2 boys of him but he refused ! as he doesnt trust me!
> 
> Honestly, im not going to harm them , or him for that matter!!
> 
> it made me cross.


Never said you were going to hurt them, simple fact is you could be saying all this and not even turn up for them leving me with male mice which i have no use for.


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## u-look-like-a-hamster (Aug 17, 2008)

i know that now!!

i typed this before you said that !

xx

HOPEFULLY 2 NEW MICE BABIES !!

HA

im going ot a carboot sunday tooo find cages

wat type do they need ??dwarf right or a tank?


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

u-look-like-a-hamster said:


> i know that now!!
> 
> i typed this before you said that !
> 
> ...


Tanks are better when they are young they can escape through bars witha big enough tank you can keep them together but they might fight as they get older or you might be lucky and theyll be friends forever.


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## cat001 (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm just gunna say that mice (particularly males i've noticed) are commercially frozen using this method, my 25 baby snakes wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for others using this method, my 60 odd other snakes i've raised in the past would have all starved to death if it wasn't for this method, both my adult corns would be dead if it wasn't for this method. It is a widely accepted method of culling mice for food, I can't imagine everyone here is vegitarian, meat for human consumption is culled using much more barbaric and painful, stressful methods. Your cats and dogs eat animals that were killed in a less humane way then this. This method IS humane and is required for prolonging the life of other animals.

These are my personal views, i'd rather no-one reply to me on this as i will not be reterning to this thread, seeing how people are bias and not understanding. :S


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## Roborovski (Sep 15, 2008)

cat001 said:


> These are my personal views, i'd rather no-one reply to me on this as i will not be reterning to this thread, seeing how people are bias and not understanding. :S


You know, there are so many really stupid people on this forum.

There. I said it.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

OMG seriously leave mark alone, he IS NOT making them suffer or culling them cruely, He is doing it humanly, people cull a lot worse than this, and im sorry but they are mice, yes they are cute but they are just mice and he's not selling them.
Seriously how do u think snakes eat without people like mark?
How do u think snake owners get their little baby chicks? Its the same thing, if you dont like what mark does then press your ignore button so u cant see his posts or threads.
But dear god love get over yourself! 

(this is not aimed at hannah by the way )


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## Mischievous_Mark (Sep 9, 2008)

Right i shall be checking the babies today and ill take some more pictures.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

Can't wait to see the pictures  Bet they've changed loads!


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## cat001 (Apr 12, 2008)

Roborovski said:


> You know, there are so many really stupid people on this forum.
> 
> There. I said it.


How DARE you insult me! This is completely unjustified as I have not offended anyone to my knowledge, I posted what I wanted to say in a polite manner and have never said a word against you, and you do not even know me! I find that incredibly hurtful and take offence to it. You are an arrogant individual with absolutely NO knowledge on this subject. I say personal views as I cannot speak for others, I cannot experience what the animals go through, and because of this I can only speak for myself on my views deeming it personal. I ask for others not to reply for fear of personal attacks from anti-social cretins like you, you have just confirmed my fears!

I have returned to this thread as I have a great sense of curiosity about other peoples views and responses, I enjoying hearing two sides of an argument (or discussions which I prefer), not demand that others agree with me like you!

This method of culling is not by all means new and I feel that ear-bashing Mark for it is completely unfair. It is a very common practice and certainly kinder then the fate of production animals or feeding live which is the only other alternative. It is not just mice that are culled using this method, but also rats, hamsters, gerbils, rabbits, guinea pigs, quails, chicks and even anoles. This is preformed on a massive industrial scale, if it was ethically wrong there would surely be more protest against it.

I have owned mice myself in the past and am sympathetic, and even anthropomorphic towards them, I even get upset when I rescue a mouse from my cat and it does not survive, but I understand the method used for culling them, and know it is not viciously cruel for a fact.

I have never had an argument with someone in a forum before, I have never insulted anyone or been insulted, I have never breathed a bad word against a soul, congratulations on being the first, such arrogance and stupidity, I pray you work on these aspects of your personality and learn to communicate in a more appropriate manner.

Oh, since i'm here, congrats on your babies Mark!


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

this thread has now been closed by the request for the OP Mark


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