# Omg just realised she's pregnant!



## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

hi guys
i joined here to get some advice really 
We've got 2 dogs, a male golden retriever and a female labradoor. When she went into season the male went to stay with my brother and when she stopped bleeding he came back home
She finished at the end of feb, beginning of march sometime as far as i can remember. However only yesterday, her stomach has dropped really low, her teats are really swollen and she's all of a sudden started looking huge! 
When the dog walker came around we asked him and he looked shocked and said theres no doubt in his mind that shes expecting and is very far gone, even he hadnt noticed!
We can feel slight movement from the puppies however were really worried as obviously shes had no prenatal care and has been out twice a week for a run and a play with the other dogs down the beach park etc. 
We have an appointment with the vets at 6pm tonight for an emergency appointment. I was just wandering what should we be doing? What will they do at the vets etc? Were still in shock lol so any advice is greatly appriciated


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

OK take a deep breath and don't panic, if she was mated around the middle of March her pups will be due within the next week or two. Get her scanned if possible to try and get some idea of a more accurate due date although the pups may be too big to get a very accurate idea of how many. order 'The book of the bitch' by Evans & White from Amazon Book of the Bitch: Amazon.co.uk: J.M. Evans, Kay White: Books and spend the next week reading up - it really is invaluable !.

You will need a whelping box - the disposable ones are good Whelping Boxes and Kittening Pens and you will need to get together a whelping kit :

ID tags to tell look a like pups apart.
Newspapers:-as many as you can collect !!!
Thermometer:-For taking temperature
Stethoscope
Torch:-Incase the bitch decides to start in the garden..
Some Gloves:- whelping is very messy
A note book and pen to record details of the birth
Lubricant:-KY jelly
Scales:- To weigh the pups once born
Disinfectant
Antiseptic
Surgical scissors (standing in a bowl of antiseptic some people like to have one blunt-ended pair and one sharp-ended pair)
Some sort of bucket/bag to dispose of the any placenta and the like that the bitch doesnt eat.

it is also useful to have these on standby:

Dopram v:- This is a breathing stimulant
Liquid life aid:- This helps to rehydrate pups that are suffering from dehyration
Nutri drops:- Supplies weak pups such as one that cant suckle with energy.

you will also need three pieces of Vetbed for the whelping box ( order on line to fit the size you need.)

and once the pups are old enough to be weaned and to move around frely you will need a puppy pen like thess : 
The puppy pen used by top breeders. Compare puppy pens and build your own size of puppy play pen - puppy pens made easy

someone will need to stay with the bitch during her last week of pregnancy and obviously be there all the time once the pups are born - advertise the litter in order to get suitable homes - this can be very time consuming as you will need to meet potential new owners to make sure your pups will go to the best homes possible.

Good luck with it all and come back on here for any further help 

P.S just to let you know that when the bitch has stopped bleeding is the most dangerous time during her season as it means that she is ovulating.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

If she was away for her season, do you know who the sire it?

How long was he away for?


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> P.S just to let you know that when the bitch has stopped bleeding is the most dangerous time during her season as it means that she is ovulating.


I've yet to have a bitch that has stopped bleeding while ovulating. Lighter yes, but not stopped altogether.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Mummy24 said:


> hi guys
> i joined here to get some advice really
> We've got 2 dogs, a male golden retriever and a female labradoor. When she went into season the male went to stay with my brother and when she stopped bleeding he came back home
> She finished at the end of feb, beginning of march sometime as far as i can remember. However only yesterday, her stomach has dropped really low, her teats are really swollen and she's all of a sudden started looking huge!
> ...


Period of gestation from mating to whelping is around 62/63 days so if she finished end February beginning or March then they would probably be due anytime soon.

This being the case its too late to use the Mismate injection alizin as you can only use that up to day 45 of gestation, prefereably day 20 or before, so sounds like that is out of the question.

How long was the boy away? Really he should have been away from first signs of season Vulva beggining to swell and discharge beginning for at least 21 days. The first stage from onset proestrus is around 9 days approx. but can vary and usually they are not receptive to the male. Next stage is estrus, is when they ovulate and are fertile usually and they will be receptive to the males. This again lasts around 9 days approx. during this time they ovulate and can become pregnant, it can vary though and be longer its only an approx, so she should have been away from him for at least 3 weeks preferably even slightly longer.

Signs of pregnancy are usually increased appetite, weight and nipple size but they can also have phantom pregnancies that can show the same signs, this usually occurs in di-estrus the 30/90 days that follow estrus when although things return to normal externally, the hormone levels are still high during this stage and internal changes are still present. If she has shown a drastic difference in the last few days, and you think you can even feel puppies sounds like she is pregnant and its not a possible phantom. Often they stop eating a day or two before and start to nest when the pups are due too.

Depending on when the boy went and came back he could be the sire if she is, or is there any chance that another dog could have gotten to her even. Usually males can be adept at getting to a bitch, some have even jumped fences and mated when the bitch is in her own garden if unattended. Did she got out at all for walks with the dog walker during the season? If she did then could it have occured then?

Sometimes a vet will emergency spay for unwanted pregnancies but if she is and this late Im not sure if that is even an option.

If it isnt that will just leave having the puppies. if you look on the lin below, will give you guidance as regarding what to do, from item 9 downwards that starts with pregnancy and whelping preparation, its not comprehensive but at least it will give you a guide and idea.

http://images.akc.org/pdf/breeders/resources/guide_to_breeding_your_dog.pdf

This is another good link, 6 most common problems during and post whelping. Which is a good idea to familiarise yourself with, so you can spot potential problems.

The 6 most common problems during and post whelping (canine pregnancy)


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thankyou so much for everyones advice its really helpful 
mums just ordered that book along with a whelping box and she's off to pets at home tonight to pick up everything else she needs
we are really excited but nervous aswell i so hope everything goes well


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

This may help also, as handling and early socialisation is important to give them the best possible start. There is a plan to down load at the end of the breeders and early cargivers section.

The Puppy Plan


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thankyou ive just downloaded and printed that off 
a question, we are currently looking after 2 other dogs meaning we have 4 in total 
how long should the other three be kept away from the bitch once labour has started? should we introduce them to the puppies etc? We also have a little boy whose 2, my daughters son and my son whose 12. When should others be allowed to see the bitch?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Mummy24 said:


> thankyou ive just downloaded and printed that off
> a question, we are currently looking after 2 other dogs meaning we have 4 in total
> how long should the other three be kept away from the bitch once labour has started? should we introduce them to the puppies etc? We also have a little boy whose 2, my daughters son and my son whose 12. When should others be allowed to see the bitch?


Hopefully someone with a lot of breeding experience can advise you better, although I have a friend whos a good breeder, and know what occurs so to speak, I havent actually got any personal breeding experience. I do know that bitches can be really protective of pups and she needs to be kept quiet and peaceful and away from the other dogs.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

i personally wouldn't let the others anywhere near the bitch. Some bitches get very over protective with their puppies. When she's in labour she needs to be away from the others , somewhere quiet.

I don't use newspapers for whelping preferring puppy pads .

good luck and hope it all goes well for you.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Mummy24 said:


> thankyou ive just downloaded and printed that off
> a question, we are currently looking after 2 other dogs meaning we have 4 in total
> how long should the other three be kept away from the bitch once labour has started? should we introduce them to the puppies etc? We also have a little boy whose 2, my daughters son and my son whose 12. When should others be allowed to see the bitch?


With regards to the other dogs - the bitch will decide when they are permitted near the pups - depending on how maternal she is - that might be days - but it could be weeks. In the meantime, keep them away from the whelping box.

With regards to the children - normal rules apply in terms of never leaving young children access to dogs - from thereon in it depends on how the bitch responds and how gentle the children can be around the pups.

When my friends girl had her litter -her 4 year old was in the whelping box with them the next day - she's a complete natural around dogs and instinctively knows to be gentle with the pups and mum.

All bitches are different - my eldest would allow us to handle the pups including my daughter and her friends - but up until about 5 weeks we were treated as mass murderers with her never taking her eye off them. Conversely, her daughter - by 4 weeks she was done - if someone wanted to see or attend to the pups when they cried - she was quite happy for it to be her mother or half sister.

Obviously with anyone handling the pups. ensure they have clean hands, and no outside shoes / clothes they've been around dogs outside the home etc and certainly never leave very young children there unsupervised (which is normal good practice anyway).

Mum is likely to be better in the early days if the knows the children. but you do need to first assess how she is likely to be with them - I've never had a bitch get aggressive with anyone handling their pups - that's not to stay it can't happen - and almost certainly will with the other resident dogs in the early days.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thanks so much for all your help!
She's had a touch of diarrhea today and has been very lethargic and seems to have taken shelter under the kitchen table. We've ordered her a whelping box and have the vets at 5.50pm today, do you think they'll scan her?


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

You still haven't said how long your boy was away, if he is indeed the sire, or whether she has been out during her season when she could have been mated. Do you have any idea when she could have been mated?

As far as the visiting dogs go, I would keep them away. Personally, I wouldn't have visiting dogs if I had a bitch due.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

How did it go at the vets?


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

he was away from when she started bleeding untill the day after she finished  

we're back from the vets! She's definitely pregnant and they're atleast 3 but they are so big they are preparing us for more. She is due to have them any day now so we have to be on our guard completely. 

To think we only found out yesterday, we're still in shock!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Good luck with it all.

I know it's probably the last thing you are thinking of right now, but please consider neutering both dogs when practical. 

Labs and retrievers tend to have fair sized litters, so be prepared for a good number.


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

How old are your dogs? Guess it was her first season? 
Really hope all goes well for your girl!


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Mummy24 said:


> *he was away from when she started bleeding untill the day after she finished*
> 
> we're back from the vets! She's definitely pregnant and they're at least 3 but they are so big they are preparing us for more. She is due to have them any day now so we have to be on our guard completely.
> 
> To think we only found out yesterday, we're still in shock!


sounds like he was brought back pretty much the day her fertility started, so i'd assume he is the sire. i can't remember if you have said or not how old she is? was this her first season?
don't let her out of your sight from here on in if she is due imminently, even more important if she is young as she may need you to play midwoof... some dogs have no instinct when it comes to birthing, i know in my breed (yorkies) it's all too common for the bitch to push put a pup and just stare at it and her owner until the owner opens the sac, breaks the cord, opens airways and hands the pup (fairly clean by this stage  ) back to her; sometimes i think they just don't want to get dirty!

were you able to get the whelping supplies at all yet? i wouldn't entirely trust postal services to deliver on time if her due date is So close, so anything you can get locally i'd be opting for that personally...


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## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

Midwoof love it, that's what we had to do, our girl was just too big to reach round so we had to do it all to start...she got passed a nice clean, cord sorted, breathing pup to lick.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> he was away from when she started bleeding untill the day after she finished


I meant how long in days/weeks. And if he really was away for the entire season, then he won't be the sire, so did she get out? Was she taken for walks where a dog could have got to her?

You may be excited but you need to put your poor girl first. Breeding will be hard work, not just for you but for your bitch and not without risk.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> sounds like he was brought back pretty much the day her fertility started, so i'd assume he is the sire


Really? The OP says he was away from she she started to when she finished (although refuses to say how many days/weeks that was which might give a clearer picture). If there really was no further discharge it is unlikely that she was fertile.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> Really? The OP says he was away from she she started to when she finished (although refuses to say how many days/weeks that was which might give a clearer picture). If there really was no further discharge it is unlikely that she was fertile.


i read it as until the day she finished bleeding...


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

kodakkuki said:


> i read it as until the day she finished bleeding...


And if she's stopped bleeding her season would be over. 
TBH, I smell a rat - there's something not quite right with this so I will bow out


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

My golden retriever bitch didn't bleed her entire season, she bled for about seven days, then would stay swollen for another 5, which is when my boys would go absolutely nuts telling me she was right ready for mating she would then bleed again for a about 4 days or so. 
I just wanted to share my experience of seasons.
So had that been my bitch and the boy was bought back after the first lot of bleeding it would have been her most fertile time, although I would have known from my boys that is was a big mistake but I suppose all males arent the same, mine are sex crazed idiots.
Willow is now spayed. 
Fosters that I have had, have bled all the way through their season.


OP - I wish you the best, please study hard, esp for the things that might go worng, it's at those points you would panic and if you have an idea of what to do it makes all the difference, get a vet you know is available on speed dial


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

babycham2002 said:


> My golden retriever bitch didn't bleed her entire season, she bled for about seven days, then would stay swollen for another 5, which is when my boys would go absolutely nuts telling me she was right ready for mating she would then bleed again for a about 4 days or so.
> I just wanted to share my experience of seasons.
> So had that been my bitch and the boy was bought back after the first lot of bleeding it would have been her most fertile time, although I would have known from my boys that is was a big mistake but I suppose all males arent the same, mine are sex crazed idiots.
> Willow is now spayed.
> ...


this is how all of my girls have been. (granted they are all of the same lines)
if they had thought to send their boy away during the season i had thought she would have been kept in the garden being watched... so the only dog with access would have been their male if her season worked like all my girls.
my poppet is in heat atm, on her 5th day she has stopped bleeding, but hasn't yet been tail flicking (which she does a lot when ready to stand) i'm expecting that to start from tomorrow...


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> My golden retriever bitch didn't bleed her entire season, she bled for about seven days, then would stay swollen for another 5, which is when my boys would go absolutely nuts telling me she was right ready for mating *she would then bleed again for a about 4 days or so*.


Exactly - so she hadn't finished bleeding, even if there was a break in the bleeding.

I've never had a bitch that has completely stopped, but regardless, the OP's reluctance to say how long (as in days/weeks) the dog was away. well....


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> Exactly - so she hadn't finished bleeding, even if there was a break in the bleeding.
> 
> I've never had a bitch that has completely stopped, but regardless, the OP's reluctance to say how long (as in days/weeks) the dog was away. well....


the colour difference between the first bloody discharge and the later discharge is very apparent in my girls- in fact, when kuki was last in season the colour was almost non existent in the later discharge, so not bloody.
which is why i read it as i did, and gave a possible novice bitch owner the benefit of the doubt.

though if this is a legit concern OP, the exact dates would be Very helpful in the advise you are being given...


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> and gave a possible novice bitch owner the benefit of the doubt


There is plenty of information out there, even a novice bitch owner should have found out, especially if they have an entire dog too. They have a duty of care to the dogs they own, or should have.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> There is plenty of information out there, even a novice bitch owner should have found out, especially if they have an entire dog too. They have a duty of care to the dogs they own, or should have.


there isn't a single bit of me that disagrees, but as i'm currently being huffed with by a girl in college for explaining why her breeding her shih ztu pup who has a huge hernia which needs surgical intervention (after explaining how you can't actually Remove a hernia!) isn't the best idea ever then i can only assume that not everyone does research (or reading at all) before buying a dog!
ignorance isn't an excuse, but is often an explanation


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

swarthy said:


> With regards to the other dogs - the bitch will decide when they are permitted near the pups - depending on how maternal she is - that might be days - but it could be weeks. In the meantime, keep them away from the whelping box.
> 
> With regards to the children - normal rules apply in terms of never leaving young children access to dogs - from thereon in it depends on how the bitch responds and how gentle the children can be around the pups.
> 
> ...


Just highlighting this great advice from SWARTHY in case it got missed by the OP.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

The OP's dog is presumably about to have pups in the next few days. What's done is done. 

What she needs is advice which will hopefully keep bitch and pups alive not criticism about something that cannot now be changed. 

I understand why this thread has upset some people, but we shouldn't be putting the OP off coming for help as surely the health and well being of dogs is our main concern? 

Just felt that some of the comments may prevent the OP coming back.


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

agree ..from the information given I think this bitch will be giving birth soon, whilst the circumstances may not be ideal, I think it's better to encourage the OP to come back for help if required for the sake of the bitch and her pups.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Totally agree with BessieDog and Bijou, so please OP do come back for advice and help, and let us know what happens.
Good luck with your bitch and pups.


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## SharonM (Mar 2, 2010)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Midwoof love it, that's what we had to do, our girl was just too big to reach round so we had to do it all to start...she got passed a nice clean, cord sorted, breathing pup to lick.


My cocker had 11 pups 7.1/2 weeks ago, she was absolutely massive, but managed all the cord breaking and sac breaking, cleaned the pups with me watching close by, but didn't need to help at all. Such a good mum.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

OP, how is she today? any change in behavior or shape?


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

rocco33 said:


> And if she's stopped bleeding her season would be over.
> TBH, I smell a rat - there's something not quite right with this so I will bow out


Actually... I always understood that cessation of bleeding does not mark the end of the season. Think about it. The bleeding is to renew the lining of the womb. 
However, I am slightly bothered that the OP needs to understand the reproductive process better if she`s going to keep entire animals.
And the reason I`m posting that is to hopefully advise anyone else reading this thread with an entire bitch who thinks seasons end when the bleeding does. 
The OP would be better speaking to her vet. 
JMO.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

rocco33 said:


> And if she's stopped bleeding her season would be over.
> TBH, I smell a rat - there's something not quite right with this so I will bow out


Not necessarily - I have bitches here who bleed throughout their season - but I also have bitches who don't bleed at all once they hit their fertile period

I've got more now that stop bleeding than bleed throughout and three of them are descendants from the one at the top who bleeds right the way through - so I don't think anything is cut and dried.

One of the most common mistakes I hear about Labs getting pregnant when a litter is unplanned is people starting to walk / bring dogs back at around day 13/14 because the bitch has stopped bleeding - not actually realising that for many - this is actually the start of their "perfect" window for mating.

We can argue that they should have done more research into seasons etc - unfortunately - at this stage - what is done is done and options are limited.

OP - if the scan saw three pups - in my experience of vets scans - you can usually at least double the number they've seen


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

SharonM said:


> My cocker had 11 pups 7.1/2 weeks ago, she was absolutely massive, but managed all the cord breaking and sac breaking, cleaned the pups with me watching close by, but didn't need to help at all. Such a good mum.


Every bitch is different - my eldest didn't allow me to lift a finger - her daughter OTOH was the complete opposite - and even when she did come around to the pups - she "didn't do bums" at all.

I helped out with a friends litter recently - and she didn't give any of the pups the time of day until everything had been done and they were clean and dry - then they were able to feed off her and she took over from that point in - but as far as the whelping went - she wasn't getting herself mucky - in fact - after delivering 9 pups - to look at her - you'd never have known she'd had a litter - she was as clean as a whistle and there was no "sag" at all - although she clearly had milk and kept her pups well fed and clean from thereon in.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> *Actually... I always understood that cessation of bleeding does not mark the end of the season. Think about it. The bleeding is to renew the lining of the womb*.
> However, I am slightly bothered that the OP needs to understand the reproductive process better if she`s going to keep entire animals.
> And the reason I`m posting that is to hopefully advise anyone else reading this thread with an entire bitch who thinks seasons end when the bleeding does.
> The OP would be better speaking to her vet.
> JMO.


All bitches are different and rarely do what the book says 
There will be a discharge even if not noticeable and it may not be bloody but a slight watery discharge. Either put a white sheet on the bed, or tissue wipe regularly to see. Even then, some bitches are so clean that it is difficult to pick up. Regardless, seasons last between 21 - 28 days on average so I would keep an entire dog away from a bitch for a minimum of 4 weeks from start of season.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thankyou for all your responses

yes we are definitely getting them both done after this. Funnily enough we were planning on getting her done but was told we had to wait after her "season" had finished and had finished for 3 months by our vet when we took her in. 

She is 4 years old so no its not her first season and we've got the whelping box being delivered tomorrow and the whelping kit we managed to find online as it has all the supplies. Although i am off into town now to pick up a few bits just encase she starts off tonight. 

Im not sure exactly as my mum dealt with it all. I understand exactly what your saying, i really do. We love her to pieces, shes our baby as such so we are terrified of anything going wrong but its all happened so quick i think we're all still in shock lol. 

Today she is very lethargic, she's following my mum around alot and she seems to have taken to lying under the kitchen table nearly all the time when mums downstairs. We can feel the puppies moving around still and there is milk coming from her teats. 

Were picking up a thermometre today to start taking her temp but we feel it could be very soon. Sorry i couldnt reply sooner! Ive got a 21 month old so often busy with him haha


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thankyou for all your responses

yes we are definitely getting them both done after this. Funnily enough we were planning on getting her done but was told we had to wait after her "season" had finished and had finished for 3 months by our vet when we took her in. 

She is 4 years old so no its not her first season and we've got the whelping box being delivered tomorrow and the whelping kit we managed to find online as it has all the supplies. Although i am off into town now to pick up a few bits just encase she starts off tonight. 

Im not sure exactly as my mum dealt with it all. I understand exactly what your saying, i really do. We love her to pieces, shes our baby as such so we are terrified of anything going wrong but its all happened so quick i think we're all still in shock lol. 

Today she is very lethargic, she's following my mum around alot and she seems to have taken to lying under the kitchen table nearly all the time when mums downstairs. We can feel the puppies moving around still and there is milk coming from her teats. 

Were picking up a thermometre today to start taking her temp but we feel it could be very soon. Sorry i couldnt reply sooner! Ive got a 21 month old so often busy with him haha


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thank you for all your responses

yes we are definitely getting them both done after this. Funnily enough we were planning on getting her done but was told we had to wait after her "season" had finished and had finished for 3 months by our vet when we took her in.

She is 4 years old so no its not her first season and we've got the whelping box being delivered tomorrow and the whelping kit we managed to find online as it has all the supplies. Although i am off into town now to pick up a few bits just encase she starts off tonight.

Im not sure exactly as my mum dealt with it all. I understand exactly what your saying, i really do. We love her to pieces, shes our baby as such so we are terrified of anything going wrong but its all happened so quick i think we're all still in shock lol.

Today she is very lethargic, she's following my mum around alot and she seems to have taken to lying under the kitchen table nearly all the time when mums downstairs. We can feel the puppies moving around still and there is milk coming from her teats.

Were picking up a thermometre today to start taking her temp but we feel it could be very soon. Sorry i couldnt reply sooner! Ive got a 21 month old so often busy with him haha

Im not a faker, that would be silly lol heres a scan picture and a picture of bitch and sire


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Gorgeous dogs, I'm sure the pups will be adorable ! Wishing you all the luck in the world and looking forward to puppy pics XX


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

I would be keeping an extra special eye out as 4 is a little old to be having a first litter and there could be problems.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thankyou susie  
ah really firedog we didnt realise this. what sort of problems could occur?


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Four actually isn't too old for a first litter - it's when a bitch is over the age of 5 and not particularly fit is when you may have extra concerns.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

shamykebab said:


> Four actually isn't too old for a first litter - it's when a bitch is over the age of 5 and not particularly fit is when you may have extra concerns.


ah thats a relief.

she is very fit and so is he. They go out for walks twice a day and have a good run on the beach twice a week. They have had all their immunizations and worming/flee treatments aswell as all their health checks (of course not the ones they do when they are pregnant so we can only hope for the best)

Her pupils have dilated and she's been very restless but sleepy today, however she hasnt gone off her food as of yet. Hoping they are here by Monday


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## button50 (Apr 16, 2012)

Good luck and i hope all goes well for all involved :thumbsup:


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## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

Whats done is done and mistakes happen to the best of people.Good luck with your mum and the pups,I hope she has a quick and trouble free labour.Dont forget to post pics of the adorable pups.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Keep a very close eye on her from now on - don't leave her at all. I understand dilated pupils can be a sign of first-stage labour, and not all girls go off their food.

If she is let out for a pee at night, go with her and take a torch. It's not unheard of for a bitch in labour to think she needs a poo, and for a puppy to slip out unseen in the garden!

Can your family organise watching her in shifts, so she's not left alone?

Also - I'm not sure if this has been mentioned - don't supplement her with calcium until after the whelping, as this can actually bring on calcium deficiency once they are born. It's safe to give her plenty of calcium-rich foods once they have been delivered, even during delivery (some breeders say their girls in labour appreciate some vanilla ice cream, as the sugar gives energy and it's also soothing and cooling). Goat's milk is a favourite as well.

Just for the record I haven't bred dogs but have a lot of experience with kittening in cats over two decades, and have been reading up on the ins and outs of dog breeding for several years out of interest, as well as knowing quite a few (good!) dog breeders.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thankyou for all your advice
she's been very restless tonight and wanting to go out into the garden alot which we've gone with her. She's also been following mum around all night so she's going to stay up with her untill 2am and then she will be sleeping in the same room as her. ive also set my alarm to go off once every 2hrs just encase she starts and mum doesnt wake. 
She's not on any calcium supplement at the moment, shes just been switched to puppy food on advice of the vet  
thankyou we are very nervous but also excited


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

she's also started scratching the sofa quite roughly as she sits on it on and off


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

She's starting to nest... they can do this several days before whelping, can you gently encourage her to go into her whelping box? Some thick layers of newspaper in the box might help her digging instinct as she can shred them up.

Where have you put it? Can you make it den-like? Could you pin some blankets or sheets over it to give it a nice dark cosy feel?


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

Yes Hun mums encouraged her into the whelping room which we thoroughly cleaned and sterilised today. She spent some time in the whelping box scratching and making it her own but after wandering around in circles for a while she's lay down on mums feet. She has started breathing heavier as well. They are in there now and mums keeping a close eye and I'm in the other room


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

any news this morning?


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

No news here this morning! Fingers crossed things start moving today  if they are not here by Monday we're going back to the vets x


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Mummy24 said:


> she's also started scratching the sofa quite roughly as she sits on it on and off


be careful she doesn't whelp on it. one of mine had her first pup on mine :0


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

Well today she's completely back to normal. No restlessness no heavy breathing nothing. Boo lol I want the puppies here haha


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

rocco33 said:


> Exactly - so she hadn't finished bleeding, even if there was a break in the bleeding.
> 
> I've never had a bitch that has completely stopped, but regardless, the OP's reluctance to say how long (as in days/weeks) the dog was away. well....


Mine bled for 5 days only during her first season.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

So quick question guys, can you take a dogs temp orally? Mums got a thermometer but refuses to use it rectally as she starts crying out. I put it in her mouth to the side of her cheek, would this give an accurate reading as it said 37'c


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Mummy24 said:


> So quick question guys, can you take a dogs temp orally? Mums got a thermometer but refuses to use it rectally as she starts crying out. I put it in her mouth to the side of her cheek, would this give an accurate reading as it said 37'c


Usually dogs temps are always taken rectally. Have you got a digital thermometer they best. Ive never known any vets take the temp orally, or a friend who breeds.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Please don't put it in her mouth!  Too easy for her to bite it and hurt herself. Insert rectally, use a dab of lube, go super slowly, don't try to force it all the way in case you get a false reading by having it jammed against an internal structure.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

Thankyou! Ill try in a little bit and let u know


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Mummy24 said:


> Thankyou! Ill try in a little bit and let u know


There is plenty of videos on you tube on how to take a dogs temperature with a digital thermometer.

Dog First Aid : How to Take a Dog&#39;s Temperature - YouTube


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

Well I just recorded a temp of 36.5'c. Anyone know what that means? I'm gonna double check in half an hour to be sure I was right as it was my first time taking it lol. She was fine and not distressed at all


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Mummy24 said:


> Well I just recorded a temp of 36.5'c. Anyone know what that means? I'm gonna double check in half an hour to be sure I was right as it was my first time taking it lol. She was fine and not distressed at all


A dogs normal body temp is around 38 degrees C usually, it wont drop by loads usually only about a degree so around 37 or a bit below, so if you have taken it accurately then she may be on her way, first stage of labour should have start in about 24 hours. Ideally to get a real idea of your dogs normal temp range, you really need to be taking it regularly several days before whelping is due, but as you dont know the exact dates of mating and only just literally found out you obviously couldnt. That woud have given you a better idea though.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thankyou! I just retook and its now 35.1'c does this mean she'll likely go into labour tonight?She's still got her normal appetite


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

My girl went off her food 24 hours before. All bitches are different though.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Mummy24 said:


> thankyou! I just retook and its now 35.1'c does this mean she'll likely go into labour tonight?She's still got her normal appetite


Usually after the temp drop first stage starts in about 24 hours. Signs to look for may be pacing and seeming anxious or restless, she may take herself off and start nesting.Quite a few bitches will stop eating before even a day or so before.

Next stage she should start the birthing and the abdominal straining to start pushing out the pups.

Really you need to read through any literature you have and or/the links provided in previous posts especially problems that can be encountered in pre whelping,whelping and post whelping. By familiarising yourself throughly with the birthing process and things that are not normal or alert to possible problems you will be much better prepared.

It could go perfect text book with no problems, but just as easily there could be problems especially if a first litter and inexperienced owner. There can be a large pup that gets stuck, or one in an incorrect position, there are conditions where the contractions or labour doesnt progress, so you need to be aware of everything you possibly can normal and whats not.


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

Oh gosh, lots of luck with you tonight, I hope all goes smoothly, just read this thread and what a shock for you! Mum and Dad look like lovely dogs- sounds like you have got everything ready and there are some brilliant people with advice around here, so fingers crossed for you and remember-

TAKE PICTURES OF THE PUPS!


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thankyou everyone!
yes we've spent the last three days getting completely clued up haha i feel like a self qualified dog midwife  
Its just id only read that it dropped to 97 F not 95 F so i wasnt sure. How exciting, should i check it again before i go to bed?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

You're going to bed??


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

Not anymore haha shes definitly just started! 
She's panting and moving around and very restless so looks like shes in the 1st stage, really excited


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Not wanting to dash your hopes, as I said before I've been reading up on breeding and conversing with breeders for several years... and some have said they notice no temperature change at all... or that it fluctuates and doesn't predict the onset of labour reliably.

I have used it with my cats, but in fact only one of my girls ever allowed me to take her temperature. With her, it _was_ a reliable indicator over four litters but that doesn't mean it works for all. There was even one breeder recently saying it's a fallacy and doesn't work for either dogs OR cats... although I do know it is true for cats (if you are able to get the queen to let you do it! :laugh.

If you don't know the exact date of mating then it's a waiting game, and even if you DO know it's still a waiting game.... since there is a great deal of variation in the ovulation and implantation. The sperm can stay alive for a couple of days before the bitch ovulates, or she may ovulate before she has been mated. This is why some breeds (as outlined in The Book Of The Bitch) appear to have 'shorter' pregnancies, some going a week earlier , and some going for up to a week later, than the stated 63 days.

*EDIT:* Just seen your post above. 
Be prepared for a LONG night and maybe and even LONGER day tomorrow, this stage can last for up to 24 hours. I hope you have a supply of strong coffee, good books and a comfy nest for yourself next to the whelping box, plus ideally some willing servants to take over when you need a pee break! Some breeders I know move the microwave and kettle into the room for the duration!


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

thankyou  
yes she's very restless but stopped panting so guessing shes in the early stages


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Does your whelping box have rails in it?

If not (and possibly even if so) then once they are born you will have to stay with the mum & litter 24/7 until their eyes open, to avoid them being accidentally crushed. This is a very real threat with newborns and you would never forgive yourself if it happens.

Some breeders of course accept this as unavoidable, but the breeders _I_ know willingly suffer sleep deprivation for the first 2 weeks or so, just to make sure.

Anyone can 'breed' dogs but to do it conscientiously and well, is a huge commitment and very hard work!


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

oh yes
mums set up a sleeping bag in the whelping room and she will be sleeping in there from tonight onwards haha


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Mummy24 said:


> Not anymore haha shes definitly just started!
> She's panting and moving around and very restless so looks like shes in the 1st stage, really excited


Dont think there is going to be any going to bed for you tonight, you are going to have to have her within site and sound of you and be able to watch her. My friend not only stays with them for the duration she camps out as well for the first weeks with Mum and pups. You have to watch them, and make sure mum doesnt roll on them and that they are al feeding OK etc.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> There is plenty of videos on you tube on how to take a dogs temperature with a digital thermometer.
> 
> Dog First Aid : How to Take a Dog's Temperature - YouTube





Sled dog hotel said:


> Dont think there is going to be any going to bed for you tonight, you are going to have to have her within site and sound of you and be able to watch her. My friend not only stays with them for the duration she camps out as well for the first weeks with Mum and pups. You have to watch them, and make sure mum doesnt roll on them and that they are al feeding OK etc.


Yeah Hun Definitly. Me and mum are taking it in shifts to sleep tonight so I'm having a couple hours now and then mum will sleep etc


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

right guys i need advice lol
we've been up all night with her. There has been no more panting however she's restless but also very tired. So she'll sleep for an hour and then get up and move and it has been going like a cycle like that all night
is this labour?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Did you see if she'd lost her mucous plug at all? Has she actually started contractions at all?


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

We are not sure if she has lost her plug or not yet. We know her milk has been in since Tuesday atleast. Her vulva is swollen and shes breathing heavily. She's settled in her whelping box now


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Has she had any stringy dishcharge? 

I'm not hugely experienced, I've only had the one litter myself, but my bitch lost her mucous plug on the Friday, along with some fluid, and started contractions. Unfortunately, she had a pup lodged up where the two uterine horns come together, which became apparent after 36 hours of stressful waiting, and then required an emergency c-section which cost an absolute fortune. 

Have you read the book of the bitch yet? I'm sure I saw it recommended earlier on in the thread? Please have a read of the three stages of labour, it's not easy to match up their behaviours, because not all bitches are the same, but that should give you a very good idea. 

If you're worried at all that she's getting too tired and stressed, please consult your vet, and I really hope you've got a vet who is good with canine reproduction that you can trust.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

yeah we've read the book  
it was more the temp which caught me off guard as ive never read it being as low at 35.1'C.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

To be honest, if you're not experienced at taking temperatures, disregard it, don't put her through the stress of having it taken because you could easily get it wrong. I never once took Tau's temperature, I just went on her physical symptoms and how she was acting.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

ah okay  
well last night she started panting for about 20 minuets and needing to go to the toilet alot outside. She was very restless and moving around alot. Throughout the night she's been snoring and breathing heavily.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

It does sound like she's imminent, let's hope she gives you an easy whelp during the day time. 

Have you got plenty of vet bed? I found I needed at least four big sheets, since I changed it three times per day for the first week.

Edited to add, when she starts, try and line the whelping box out with newspaper, it's pointless doing it before as she'll just dig it up, but if you can slip some newspaper under her it will catch the worst of the fluids etc, and hopefully save your whelping box from getting the full mess. Then you can slide the newspaper (and birthing fluids) out and throw them away.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

If you have taken the temperature correctly and there is a drop, then first stage of labour should begin in about 24 hours after.

On average first stage should last between 6/12 hours. panting restlessness etc is normal, the cervi will be opening to get ready for the delivery.

When she goes into the second stage contractions should start with a vengeance to begin to push the pups out. The placenta waters break should break, your mum will know about this as it would have likely happened to her or should when she had you. You need to make sure that the placentas are being delivered after each pup and throughout. A pup should appear after bouts of really strong straining. You need to make sure the mum tears away the sack, bites off the umbilical cord and licks and cleans them to stimuate them and help with breathing. She shold also lick and clean away all the fluid from the pups mouth and nose. 

Main things that can indicate trouble are

Signs


Your dog has been pregnant for over 70 days.
Stage I labor has gone on for 24 hours without producing a pup &#9702;Stage I normally lasts 6 to 12 hours where the dog will exhibit nesting behavior and her temperature will drop. 

Steady strong contractions have continued for over 1 hour without producing a pup.
Prolonged resting phase continues over 4 hours when there are more pups to be delivered.
There is a foul smelling vaginal discharge.
 Mother-to-be has excessive vomiting or is extremely lethargic.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

Thanks for all your responses 

She's a lot more tired and sleeping a lot. She's also off her food today as well which is VERY unlike her. I took her temp at 12.00 and it was 37.4c so I'm gonna retake at 6pm. Hopefully it's gone down!


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I never took temps, tbh I didn't know you could. I just stayed with her and let nature take its course, thirteen hours later we had seven Mally boys and one girl. She did go three hours without a pup in the middle of it all and the vet said just get her moving, take he in the garden to toilet. We did and she had a pup out there almost immediately - just managed to catch him in a towel. 

Good luck, don't panic and hopefully you'll soon see your first pup. Exciting but worrying all the same.


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## Mummy24 (May 8, 2013)

okay i think we may have lift off!
She has been off her food all day,her temp at 12.20pm was 99.5'F and ive just taken it again and it is 97.7'F. 
What do we think guys?


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

just read through the whole post and was wondering how your girl is getting on ?


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## WildDog (Oct 1, 2012)

Yes how is she? Has she had pups yet?


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

A new thread was started for regular updates, here you go !!

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/306311-countdown-labour-blues-thread.html


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