# Westie skin problems....... (AGAIN im sure) !



## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

Hi all and a Happy New Year to you,

My first real post (Just joined today and have made my intro in the correct section already)....so here goes.

We have a female West Highland Terrier called Ruby who is 8 years old on Valentines day. Im sure you've all read / heard / seen of Westies with skin conditions and Ruby is no different.
Her condition isnt bad at all [Some dry skin, a few darker patches on her underbelly and in this latest flare-up - a few small red dots / scabs on her flanks and base of her back] and 90% of this breed i see are worse than here. Since birth she has been with the same vet, and has had all treatment for this and all her vaccinations etc there too. Normal treatment for her is Malaseeb shampoo and we also have some Cortavance spray, and when this last bout 'flared up' a little we washed her, and it made no real difference. We looked and the shampoo was way out of date..........

For reference she can go months with nothing,then sometimes if its really hot (Summer) she might have a little flare-up, and sometimes like now in winter - im guessing with central heating on etc it can appear again.

My wife went to the vets to buy some more Malaseeb (Prescription only) and without looking the vet (One my wife had not seen before) wanted to see the dog, give her an examination, an antihistamine injection and sell us some shampoo. Like £120 worth. Which i dont begrudge - apart from the fact her condition is a known one, not at all severe and the vet didnt even look at her notes. So it appeared this was about money and not the dogs welfare ???

My wife took offence and left as they couldnt see the dog for a while anyway, and we searched online and found Seleen shampoo, which had good write-ups and immediately bought some. It came Thursday and with her first wash with it; i thought i'd be careful and mix at 1:8 to make the weakest solution suggested. Seems this made little (?) difference. So today ive washed her again using the 1:4 ratio suggested on the bottle and on the net. Early days - but shes still scratching. Shes not really uncomfortable by any means - but i dont want her to be, or get to the stage of causing harm to herself, ripping fur out etc.

Searching further ive found both Dermopt Shampoo and Spray and even more so Dermacton natural soap bars highly recommended everywhere for Westies skin problems.

DermOpt Dog Shampoo for Dogs With Itchy Skin - Anti Microbial To Combat Mange Mites, Fleas, Ticks, Dermatitis, Atropy, Alopecia & Pyoderma. Great for All Types of Dog Breeds for Healthy Coat, 250ml: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

Dermacton - Skin Relief for Dogs with Itchy Skin

So. What does everyone suggest we do next for our slightly miserable Westie ? Do i need to see a vet ? Whats the next line of attack Shampoo wise ? Would 1/2 tablet of Piriton Allergy relief tablets a day help here ([Or be suggested] ???

Any help appreciated BEFORE we both pull our hair out


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## EAD (May 10, 2013)

11 year old westie here with skin problems so a lot of what you have typed is familiar.

Hers started back in I think 2005 but is mainly problematic from about April to September. 

Lily was tested to check what she was allergic to which came back with various trees, weeds and grasses so she had the immunotherapy vaccine which seemed to help.

Now we have no hair loss, just itching which we deal with using Malaseb or Coatex or Episoothe and Piriton.

Have you had her tested to check for allergies?

I think going to a vet who you trust is a good idea as there is so many things which could be causing the problem and so many shampoos etc which can be used to help.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Has she been allergy tested?

I've just had my Yorkie allergy tested and we should have the results next week. Not cheap (she isn't insured for skin conditions) but worth it so we actually know what we are dealing with.


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

EAD said:


> 11 year old westie here with skin problems so a lot of what you have typed is familiar.
> 
> Hers started back in I think 2005 but is mainly problematic from about April to September.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your help.

No we havn't had her tested. She's not had any sort of problem really for months and months and was already 'under control' or so we thought.....this flare-up has come on quickly and been her worst yet i think. Although as i say (Touch-wood) shes not bad at all, and scouring the net we are both very lucky as it seems it could be alot worse !

My wife doesnt work and always takes the dog in for vaccinations etc, but she's no fool and clearly we thought we had a trustworthy / good vet. Im now not sure this is the case from this fleeting experience......

The Coatex Shampoo gets great reviews from a little reading ive just done. Might be worth a try for sure. And how do you give your dog Piriton (And how much per day) Ie: Is this given as soon as the condition starts getting worse than normal, or all the time, or......... ??

Many thanks again.


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## LaceWing (Mar 18, 2014)

I used Maleseb on a Boston terror who was practically bald from fleas and d. mange- he was a puppy mill stud previous to being dumped at the shelter. The Maleseb kills bacteria growing on the skin. The first time we used it I could tell he felt better. I normally use soap that I make myself. It contains olive oil, coconut oil, and castor oil. The dogs always do well with this. You might consider asking around for homemade soaps with those ingredients (no fragrance, although lavender e.o. is good)

Have you supplemented him with Vitamin C. It is a natural antihistamine as well as a cell builder. I give it to my dog every 3 days for arthritis. My dog had a stroke yesterday and my vet recommended giving the C every day as it is a cell builder and will help his brain heal. I use Thompson's _C Buffered Crystals_ and just sprinkle it on his food.


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

EAD said:


> Now we have no hair loss, just itching which we deal with using Malaseb or Coatex or Episoothe and Piriton.
> .


Which Coatex do you use for reference: The Medicated or the Oatmeal and Aloe ?

Thanks.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I really do credit Dermacton with saving our Westies life.

He had the ''typical itchy Westie'' symptoms as a pup but it was manageable until he got to around two years old, and then it just seemed to explode and spiraled out of control from there. We had allergy tests and skin scraps done, he was on and off of steroids and antibiotics, on constant high dose antihistamines and we went through all the vet prescribed lotions and potions. Nothing worked, the dermatologist was stumped and our next step was having him put to sleep as he had no quality of life whatsoever - he couldn't sleep for scratching, would cry out in pain as he nibbled himself raw and was just thoroughly miserable.

His problems were confined predominantly to his armpits, stomach, paws and groin and the skin in these areas was scarlett red and would crack and then weep and ooze. It was horrific.

We saw Dermacton being advertised in Dogs Today magazine, and with the appointment already booked to have Alfie put to sleep, we knew there was nothing to loose in giving it a whirl. We got the spray and the cream.

No word of a lie - within a couple of days the itching ceased, within a week the weeping skin was drying up and returning to a normal colour and after a fortnight there was the start of some hair regrowth. By the time we were at the end of the bottle and the tub - we used the spray initially when his skin was too sore to touch and then the cream after it had began to heal a little - you would never have known there was ever a problem.

I am a HUGE skeptic when it comes to any ''alternative'' treatments and would never have believed Alfie's story if he had been someone elses dog. God knows what's in Dermacton, it claims to be all natural but they're not exactly forthcoming about exactly what it contains, but at the end of the day, I genuinely couldn't care less as it gave us back our boy.

Alfie is now 12 - and not had a skin flare up since the day we tried Dermacton.

If you haven't already done so, allergy testing and a referral to a dermatologist really would be a sensible step, but I don't think there is much to loose in trying Dermacton. Like I say, it worked for us when nothing else available at the time did.

Out of interest, what do you feed your girl?


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

SixStar said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again - I really do credit Dermacton with saving our Westies life.
> 
> He had the ''typical itchy Westie'' symptoms as a pup but it was manageable until he got to around two years old, and then it just seemed to explode and spiraled out of control from there. We had allergy tests and skin scraps done, he was on and off of steroids and antibiotics, on constant high dose antihistamines and we went through all the vet prescribed lotions and potions. Nothing worked, the dermatologist was stumped and our next step was having him put to sleep as he had no quality of life whatsoever - he couldn't sleep for scratching, would cry out in pain as he nibbled himself raw and was just thoroughly miserable.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the detailed 'report'. So glad it worked for you and what was your 'poor dog' - Sounds like it really was "......a lifesaver" 

Ruby eats 'Nature Diet meat' which we get from Pets at Home - This is supposed to be all natural and according to the packet contains no chemicals, is gluten free and every flavour has meat with rice and vegetables. Same sort of thing with the dry food we give her.......

Did you only ever use the spray and cream ???? Ruby is a double-coated Westie and hence using the spray and the cream might be particularly messy AND difficult to get the product to her scalp. So we are thinking its best to get the shampoo bar. I presume this contains exactly the same products..........

Many thanks.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

sevenfourate said:


> Thanks so much for the detailed 'report'. So glad it worked for you and what was your 'poor dog' - Sounds like it really was "......a lifesaver"
> 
> Ruby eats 'Nature Diet meat' which we get from Pets at Home - This is supposed to be all natural and according to the packet contains no chemicals, is gluten free and every flavour has meat with rice and vegetables. Same sort of thing with the dry food we give her.......
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity, have you ever tried her on a grain free diet?

Yes, we just used the cream and spray since Alfie's affected areas were mainly localized to particular spots rather than all-over and they were bald anyway, so we didn't have trouble getting the product directly onto the skin.

The shampoo bar may well be a better bet if a larger area of her body is affected. I presume the active ingredients are fairly similar, but I would not imagine the shampoo having the sustained soothing affects that the cream/spray did since it's obviously washed straight off rather than remaining in contact with the skin to protect and continue working, as such.


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

SixStar said:


> Out of curiosity, have you ever tried her on a grain free diet?
> 
> Yes, we just used the cream and spray since Alfie's affected areas were mainly localized to particular spots rather than all-over and they were bald anyway, so we didn't have trouble getting the product directly onto the skin.
> 
> The shampoo bar may well be a better bet if a larger area of her body is affected. I presume the active ingredients are fairly similar, but I would not imagine the shampoo having the sustained soothing affects that the cream/spray did since it's obviously washed straight off rather than remaining in contact with the skin to protect and continue working, as such.


No we havn't tried a grain free diet. But im now reading up on it - thanks !

And ive just ordered both the spray and the shampoo bar as a first line of attack. And maybe the last....fingers crossed 

Will keep you updated.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

A grain free diet is definitely worth a whirl, even if it doesn't help, it's still a good move to make 

Yes, please keep us updated. Fingers crossed for your girl.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

SixStar said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again - I really do credit Dermacton with saving our Westies life.
> 
> He had the ''typical itchy Westie'' symptoms as a pup but it was manageable until he got to around two years old, and then it just seemed to explode and spiraled out of control from there. We had allergy tests and skin scraps done, he was on and off of steroids and antibiotics, on constant high dose antihistamines and we went through all the vet prescribed lotions and potions. Nothing worked, the dermatologist was stumped and our next step was having him put to sleep as he had no quality of life whatsoever - he couldn't sleep for scratching, would cry out in pain as he nibbled himself raw and was just thoroughly miserable.
> 
> ...


Hmm, that is really interesting. May look into that when I get the results of Tilly's allergy tests back. She bites raw the exact same areas to the point where they ooze and it pustulates - not nice. She's on a low dose of steriods at the moment until the test results come back and we actually know what she's allergic to.

Watch this space!


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Hi there I must be one of lucky ones with my little westie  he scratches but doesn't have any skin issues :thumbup1: he does lick his paws dues to grass allergy but not excessive good luck with your little one


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

new westie owner said:


> Hi there I must be one of lucky ones with my little westie  he scratches but doesn't have any skin issues :thumbup1: he does lick his paws dues to grass allergy but not excessive good luck with your little one


Ours really isnt that bad. Im trying to be somewhat pro-active if i can.........

How old is your Westie ?

***And lucky you, and lucky Westie. I bet your in the minority having little or no skin issues.


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

He will be 5 on 31st January


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

new westie owner said:


> He will be 5 on 31st January


You'd like to think he's got away with it then 

Whats he hoping for ????? lol


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

sevenfourate said:


> Hi all and a Happy New Year to you,
> 
> My first real post (Just joined today and have made my intro in the correct section already)....so here goes.
> 
> ...


I would say Dermacton is worth a try, it has helped a lot of dogs with itchy and problem skin when a lot of other things haven't. its not that expensive either so worth trying.

Don't know if you have seen the links below, I found them a good while ago when trying to help a neighbour with her westie. There may be some good info on there and some suggestions too.

http://www.westiesinneed.com/Itchy-Westie-Handout.pdf


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

sevenfourate said:


> You'd like to think he's got away with it then
> 
> Whats he hoping for ????? lol


Probably more soft toys he loves them  some of his collection


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

Sled dog hotel said:


> I would say Dermacton is worth a try, it has helped a lot of dogs with itchy and problem skin when a lot of other things haven't. its not that expensive either so worth trying.
> 
> Don't know if you have seen the links below, I found them a good while ago when trying to help a neighbour with her westie. There may be some good info on there and some suggestions too.
> 
> http://www.westiesinneed.com/Itchy-Westie-Handout.pdf


Dermacton spray and shampoo is on order already 

Thats incredibly helpful.

MANY THANKS INDEED :thumbup1:


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

new westie owner said:


> Probably more soft toys he loves them  some of his collection


Ours is a Teddy lover too. We had to search the internet for weeks to find a like-for-like and expensive replacement for one she's "pretty much killed", as a Christmas present....

And in typical Westie fashion - she's now pretty much ignoring it.

Gotta love em.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2015)

My Westie's 4 and this time last year was completely miserable (although still nowhere as bad as some). After doing a raw exclusion diet and finding out some proteins she's allergic to (egg and lamb in particular) she's now settled on a diet that suits her and is absolutely 'normal' again. 

I wonder if it's possible the flare ups coincide with her eating something? Even just 1 egg sends my dog itching.


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

McKenzie said:


> My Westie's 4 and this time last year was completely miserable (although still nowhere as bad as some). After doing a raw exclusion diet and finding out some proteins she's allergic to (egg and lamb in particular) she's now settled on a diet that suits her and is absolutely 'normal' again.
> 
> I wonder if it's possible the flare ups coincide with her eating something? Even just 1 egg sends my dog itching.


Although we havn't had any allergy tests done, she has been pretty much 'perfect' (Being controlled with Maleseb) for quite some time.

This latest mini flare-up started just before Christmas. Which also coincided with us giving her a few treats, chews etc we had bought her for her Xmas stocking ! She does have these from time to time - but i wouldnt say its 'normal'.

Needless to to say after being made to think about this, after reading the net and joining here.....the treats have now gone in the bin !

Another possible off the list i guess........


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

Ruby the Westie is going to be eating a wheat free diet from tomorrow. (After we get geared up today fingers crossed).......... I'm going to try to cover all bases for our little girl.

We've also stopped all treats of any sort as from yesterday.....

I'm also thinking of trying Piriton - maybe if only in the short-term while the angriness is still showing, and while im waiting for the Dermacton to show-up.

What sort of doseage, and how often should my [Smallish] female Westie be given Piriton ???

And should she just have it when any incident starts to flare up.....or is to be used as a preventative medicine too (Ie: Given every day) ?

Continued thanks from Ruby.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

sevenfourate said:


> Ruby the Westie is going to be eating a wheat free diet from tomorrow. (After we get geared up today fingers crossed).......... I'm going to try to cover all bases for our little girl.
> 
> We've also stopped all treats of any sort as from yesterday.....
> 
> ...


If you're cutting out wheat, it really would be worth going the whole hog and trialling totally grain free. You may well see a difference. 

You should only take advice on Piriton dosage from your vet as it depends entirely on the individual dog. Mine (6.5kg) was on 1 x 4mg three times a day everyday, but you must ask your vet what Ruby's dosage should be.


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## ladyisla (Apr 19, 2014)

I'm afraid I don't have any advice for your little one but was wondering how much scratching people's Westies do, even if their skin looks to be fine? Heidi is coming up for 11 months now and apart from a hystiocytoma which cleared up by itself has no noticeable scaliness, dark patches or broken skin anywhere that I can see but she does seem to need to scratch a lot, especially when she first wakes up. Sometimes she'll make a frustrated little noise at the same time so I can tell something must be irritating her. She has had about 4 baths since I got her at 8 weeks because of fox poo rolling and I have used baby shampoo on her as advised by the breeder (who also told me not to bath unless absolutely necessary). Does it sound like I need to start using something especially for itchy skin or is this just 'normal' dog scratching? She's been de-flead regularly so I wouldn't have thought that was the problem. 

Hope Ruby gets some relief soon.


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

ladyisla said:


> I'm afraid I don't have any advice for your little one but was wondering how much scratching people's Westies do, even if their skin looks to be fine? Heidi is coming up for 11 months now and apart from a hystiocytoma which cleared up by itself has no noticeable scaliness, dark patches or broken skin anywhere that I can see but she does seem to need to scratch a lot, especially when she first wakes up. Sometimes she'll make a frustrated little noise at the same time so I can tell something must be irritating her. She has had about 4 baths since I got her at 8 weeks because of fox poo rolling and I have used baby shampoo on her as advised by the breeder (who also told me not to bath unless absolutely necessary). Does it sound like I need to start using something especially for itchy skin or is this just 'normal' dog scratching? She's been de-flead regularly so I wouldn't have thought that was the problem.
> 
> Hope Ruby gets some relief soon.


Im no expert but Westies do seem prone to it from my limited experience, and the chances of your dog having a skin condition of some sort in its life seem fairly likely to me. But as said before - you of course dont hear about all the dogs that are perfectly fine.....

In saying that my wife talks to lots of other Westie owners she meets in the course of walking ours - and skins complaints seem more common than not.

If you were to use something (Shampoo) mild, natural and not too harsh (Dermaction for example ??) that wont dry her coat out and rob her skin of its natural oils as a potential cure, i dont see what the down-side could be even if it wasnt the answer to you and you dogs problem;ie Itching.

Or perhaps now is the time to think about allergies, diet etc and try and stop any potential future problems in the bud ?


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

sevenfourate said:


> Ruby the Westie is going to be eating a wheat free diet from tomorrow. (After we get geared up today fingers crossed).......... I'm going to try to cover all bases for our little girl.
> 
> We've also stopped all treats of any sort as from yesterday.....
> 
> ...


Gorgeous girl


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## sevenfourate (Jan 3, 2015)

new westie owner said:


> Gorgeous girl


Thankyou.

Shes certainly her mummies girl....although the coat is (Thankfully lol) only used in the really cold weather. Personally id be pleased to get 1/4 of the love and attention the dog gets......

Today is:

Day 1 of no wheat
Day 4 (?) of no treats and 
Day 2 of 1 Piriton a day.

I've been in from work 3+ hours and ive not seen her scratch yet, and my wife said she's hardly scratched all day. Having made a few changes; we cant be sure if its a short-term change or what if anything has made a difference. Im now beginning to think it may well have been her "Xmas present chews to be honest.....

All i can say is that Ruby seems a bit happier and she must feel alot better too i imagine.

Thanks all  Great forum in general BTW. Liking it alot......


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2015)

ladyisla said:


> I'm afraid I don't have any advice for your little one but was wondering how much scratching people's Westies do, even if their skin looks to be fine? Heidi is coming up for 11 months now and apart from a hystiocytoma which cleared up by itself has no noticeable scaliness, dark patches or broken skin anywhere that I can see but she does seem to need to scratch a lot, especially when she first wakes up. Sometimes she'll make a frustrated little noise at the same time so I can tell something must be irritating her. She has had about 4 baths since I got her at 8 weeks because of fox poo rolling and I have used baby shampoo on her as advised by the breeder (who also told me not to bath unless absolutely necessary). Does it sound like I need to start using something especially for itchy skin or is this just 'normal' dog scratching? She's been de-flead regularly so I wouldn't have thought that was the problem.
> 
> Hope Ruby gets some relief soon.


Now I have her food allergies under control McKenzie scratches very little, and the scratching she does is not 'obsessive'. I can always tell when she's eaten something she reacts to as she'll suddenly start scratching a lot more.

Before I sorted her food allergies she started off slowly, and I always noticed she scratched a lot in the morning like your girl. The scratching gradually got more and more intense to the point where we couldn't even go on a walk without her stopping all the time to scratch. She always scratched the same place - the sides of her belly. In addition she started chewing the hair on her front legs building up gradually until she had bald spots. Her tummy skin started to turn black too.

Looking back this probably developed over the course of a year-18 months, starting when she was around 2. I'd say if you are noticing her scratching a lot already, try taking some steps to lessen it before it gets really bad. McKenzie has food allergies, although other Westies may have environmental allergies which are harder to sort out. What are you feeding her at the moment? For a start I'd switch to a grain-free food if she isn't already on one. Also maybe try a food which has a different main protein. McKenzie reacts very badly to lamb and eggs, and large amounts of beef (I did a raw exclusion diet to discover this). I also suspect she is allergic to some fish so I just take the easy road and avoid fish altogether.

I'd also stop using baby shampoo. Babies are quite different to dogs and I believe the pH of baby shampoo is not right for dogs. I'd use an oatmeal-based shampoo - I use Aloveen, but not sure if you can get it over there.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

sevenfourate said:


> Thankyou.
> 
> Shes certainly her mummies girl....although the coat is (Thankfully lol) only used in the really cold weather. Personally id be pleased to get 1/4 of the love and attention the dog gets......
> 
> ...


Glad that Ruby is improving for you. 
Is that dose of piriton what your vet advised?

My chap had a spell of skin problems in 2013 but I put it down to my putting a lawn treatment down. My vet mentioned piriton for if it didn't improve but we didn't get that far. I found sudocrem did a good job healing.


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## ladyisla (Apr 19, 2014)

McKenzie said:


> Before I sorted her food allergies she started off slowly, and I always noticed she scratched a lot in the morning like your girl.
> 
> I'd also stop using baby shampoo. Babies are quite different to dogs and I believe the pH of baby shampoo is not right for dogs. I'd use an oatmeal-based shampoo - I use Aloveen, but not sure if you can get it over there.


Thanks for that. I have read oatmeal is good so I will have a look for something.

She has previously been fed James Wellbeloved, Wainwrights wet and currently Naturediet and Lily's Kitchen dry but I must confess to sometimes feeding Butchers trays when money is tight. They were about the best I could find in the supermarket and didn't seem to have cereal in the ingredients. Before I got a Westie I read up a lot about them and of course their skin was one of the major issues that kept coming up so I have tried to avoid what I have heard are potential triggers i.e grain. She does get the occasional Bonio though and I know they definitely aren't grain free!

I will keep an eye on it and try to get some more suitable shampoo.

Thank you!


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