# Siamese cat and kittens needing help



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Okay guys, a bit of a sad one here - a lady I am in contact with has just found out that ther mum has terminal cancer - she is a small siamsese breeder - she has 1 queen with 2 (poss 3) kittens that she just can not give the time too - they are around 4 weeks old and she is at the hopsital 18hrs a day and just can't look after them. Her breeder did take them for a short while but has returned them as the mum was 'hissy'. She is offering them at a good price to anyone who is a reputable breeder. I don't have all the details yet as the mum was off for a biopsy this afternoon. I've asked about registration, exact price wanted, pedigree lines etc. When I have them I will post. Hope someone can help.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Offering an entire queen for sale with kittens is only going to attract the wrong kind of people. She would be better trying to find some one to foster them all until the kittens are ready to go to their new homes, then neutering Mum and finding her a lovely pet home. Has she spoken to Siamese Rescue, they should be able to help.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Saikou said:


> Offering an entire queen for sale with kittens is only going to attract the wrong kind of people. She would be better trying to find some one to foster them all until the kittens are ready to go to their new homes, then neutering Mum and finding her a lovely pet home. Has she spoken to Siamese Rescue, they should be able to help.


I do realise that it isn't the best - I will suggest rescue to her - I offered to foster, but mum is terminal and she doesn't know how long she has left - it could be weeks or even months. This lady is in bits and not thinking the straightest. But just wondered if anyone could help - she not advertising just asking around. I thought it would be sorted with the breeder but she was as useless as a chocolate fireguard!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Even with the best will in the world, I think it would be hard for a breeder to take back an adult queen with kittens, especially if they have kittens of their own. Mum isn't going to settle well and you have to keep them all isolated. It really needs someone with no cats and a nice quiet home to take them on.

Where abouts are they ?


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

is it this lady Home if so they are in the west midlands. i think it would be best if a breeder with a spare room or a siamese rescue could take her and foster her while she has the kittens and then rehome her and the kittens etc....


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Yep - that's her.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Not sure where Billyboysmum is today but she might be able to help. She has the experience but not sure if she is fostering at the moment. I will text her and tell her to log in


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Oh how sad!! If I didn't have my kittens here I would love to have her, I've bred Siamese before and have a GCCF prefix. But I sadly can't..... :crying: I hope a solution can be found for this lady.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

It is a sad situation, but that poor cat is also going through the mill through no fault of her own. Its her first litter, and her kittens are at that I can be independent stage at 4 weeks that drives all new Mums nuts. She has already been placed somewhere strange for a bit and come back. I don't blame her for being hissy really. Its not good for such young kittens to be moved around so much either, exposed to different bugs and stressed.

I hope something can be sorted for her.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I live very close but I don't think it would work out with my others... She certainly needs somewhere stable and quickly. I have a spare room, but I can't afford to be forking out money near to xmas so I could only foster, and even then I don't think my home would be the best. Anyone else able to help?


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Just read this

I still have my kitten room set up

If i can help let me know

Ive fostered litereally hundreds of pregnant cats and their kittens up until very recently. The kittens and mum would all be homed through the rescue too.

I'm in north wilts, about an hour from birmingham if that helps at all.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I've mailed the lady and sadly I can not afford the price she wants for them so not sure billyboy if she'll go with your kind offer but hopefullyx


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

What a shame, I have 3 spare rooms and Iam 20 mins from her so I could take them, How much is she asking for them?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I don't know a price - she hasn't told me that yet - how much did she say Biawiska? 

Jen26 I can let her know you could be interested if you want.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I could offer to take them until such time as they are ready for rehoming, can't afford to pay more than a couple of hundred for an outright sale and I imagine she is hoping for rather more than that. Would be prepared to take them on and come to some financial arrangement re. the sale of the kittens, if she wants. She must realise surely that the expensive time for the kittens is about to come (major vet bills still very possible) and that whoever takes them on will have to meet all the normal costs of rearing a litter, and we all say we don't make any profit, don't we. Kitten sales are not good this year. Anyway, make her the offer by all means, I could go and collect pretty much any time.

I have to say though that I agree with the others that the welfare of the cats ought to take priority over the price she is likely to get for the kittens.

If it's that one in the West Midlands it's rather a sad situation, she is obviously very new to breeding and this is not a good start for her.

Liz


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I'll pass it on Liz and see what she says.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

i won't say the price here, it's not fair, i offered her the money from the sale of the kittens and just a deposit up front as i'm right near her but she wants it now and i just don't have it now. esp as any money i have would be going on raising them which will cost me! ie: vets etc.. and extra food/litter. .. i'll pm u liz.


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

spid said:


> I don't know a price - she hasn't told me that yet - how much did she say Biawiska?
> 
> Jen26 I can let her know you could be interested if you want.


Iam really sorry, but she is asking way more than I could afford at the minute, who ever took them on is still going to have to spend 2-300 to raise them and neuter mom, with what she is asking that's the best part of a grand. 
If she was prepared to maybe split the sale of mom and kittens to cover the costs, I would of gladly taken them . She would probably have more luck with a Siamese breeder who would want to keep them.
Sorry again, what an awfull situation


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

At the price she wants, she has only two chances of a sale as far as I can see:

1. Someone who hasn't worked out yet how much it costs to raise kittens 

OR 2. A new breeder looking for new lines, especially perhaps one who is struggling to get a boy. It's a good opportunity for someone in this position, the problem is it might well be the wrong sort of someone who snaps them up. 

Even if they were my breed, my husband wouldn't let me spend the sort of money this lady is asking, not when all the kitten raising expense is just round the corner. And right now I haven't got that sort of money available in the bank anyway.

So in short she has several offers of help if help is what she really needs, but it seems to me that what she wants is a quick exit getting back all the money she has paid on the girl and the stud fee. It doesn't work like that any more than it would if you gave up any other hobby and then tried to sell the equipment for what you paid for it (which, in economic terms, is exactly what she is doing)

Liz


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Woah - we haven't discussed money really - but those sorts of figures are far in excess of what I was thinking.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Okay all 'offers' and suggestions passsed on - I'll report back with any news.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, my guess is that if the present situation continues for her (and since the only exit from it is her mother's death, we can hardly wish for it not to continue), she will be screaming out for help before too long, the prospect of dealing with Siamese kittens at the hooligan stage when you are constantly exhausted and stressed is not a nice one 

One more offer - my parents live not too far from this lady and have four spare rooms and some kitten raising experience (moggies). They are not breeders, just a cat's ideal home, they would not want to keep the cat or kittens but would certainly be a good base to rehome them from and they would care very much, plus they have me on the other end of the phone to deal with paperwork and advertising. But it would have to be on an agreement based (in writing by all means) on actual profits from the sale of the kittens, with receipts kept and so on, they would not pay any money up front.

So there, that's something like six offers this lady can choose from, and if none of those suit the only suggestion I can make is to advertise them. Alternatively if she is willing for her details to be made public (which will of course immediately alert the breed rescues who will go in like a shot and have very effective ways of persuading people to part with cats for nothing, I'd love to know how they do it!) I can put the details on another forum where there may well be Siamese breeders lurking.

Liz


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

£600 or there abouts (from the horses mouth this morning)

Lizward I will pass it on - thank you. She back off up to the hospital again now - I will report with any other news.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

The kittens MUST be registered by her as the breeder as MUST BE ON THE NON ACTIVE, due to the Stud she has used!!!! 

There are several offers for help, she told me I could keep Mum on the Active but I told her I wouldn't. I would have her neutered and prehaps homes with one of her kittens. 

I think that would be a nice idea. She should contact some siamese rescues, if I was that stuck and these kittens and mum werent being looked after because of the situation then I think it's the only option, or to let one of us have them and give any remaining money after costs of care back to her.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

lizward said:


> Well, my guess is that if the present situation continues for her (and since the only exit from it is her mother's death, we can hardly wish for it not to continue), she will be screaming out for help before too long, the prospect of dealing with Siamese kittens at the hooligan stage when you are constantly exhausted and stressed is not a nice one
> 
> One more offer - my parents live not too far from this lady and have four spare rooms and some kitten raising experience (moggies). They are not breeders, just a cat's ideal home, they would not want to keep the cat or kittens but would certainly be a good base to rehome them from and they would care very much, plus they have me on the other end of the phone to deal with paperwork and advertising. But it would have to be on an agreement based (in writing by all means) on actual profits from the sale of the kittens, with receipts kept and so on, they would not pay any money up front.
> 
> ...


already on friendly felines liz


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> The kittens MUST be registered by her as the breeder as MUST BE ON THE NON ACTIVE, due to the Stud she has used!!!!
> 
> There are several offers for help, she told me I could keep Mum on the Active but I told her I wouldn't. I would have her neutered and prehaps homes with one of her kittens.
> 
> I think that would be a nice idea. She should contact some siamese rescues, if I was that stuck and these kittens and mum werent being looked after because of the situation then I think it's the only option, or to let one of us have them and give any remaining money after costs of care back to her.


I was wondering about that, who ever buys them would not be able to register them under there own prefix as they wouldn't be the registered owner of the dam at the time of birth. 
Could they register them with an adminstrative prefix? 
I hope the stud owner is aware of the situation, if there were restrictions on the mating cert I don't think they will appreciate the kittens getting into the wrong hands


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> The kittens MUST be registered by her as the breeder as MUST BE ON THE NON ACTIVE, due to the Stud she has used!!!!


But that can't be enforced, if someone else registers the kittens they can register them as whatever they like (under an administrative prefix). Unless she registers the kittens herself (and they can't be registered before one month so they won't be registered yet unless she has just sent off the forms) she has absolutely no say in how they are registered, and neither does the stud owner.

In fact, her best bet for getting her money might be to try the stud owner since if the stud owner is that concerned about them being non-active, and has the money, buying them is the only way she will be able to stop it unless the breeder gets in and registers them right now - and my guess is that will be the last thing on her mind. The GCCF will not be remotely interested in enforcing a contract signed by a third party, their rule is that the breeder or the person who first registers the kittens is the one who decides what register they go on. True, anyone putting them on the active might well find herself shunned by the Siamese section at shows, but that wouldn't worry everyone!

Then of course as far as this breeder is concerned, there is the added detail that the very people most likely to want to buy in three Siamese at once at that sort of price would be those who were looking for breeding cats, and any of those who actually wanted to do it properly ie. use other studs, show etc, would be the ones who would not want to go against a well known stud owner by registering the kittens on the active. So the bottom line as I see it is that the only people who are likely to buy are the ones least likely to be the sort of buyer she really wants. Surely she must realise that at four weeks it is still entirely possible that one of the kittens could simply keel over and die or - worse - run up a huge vet bill before dying?

And of course there is another thing, to register the kittens if you are not the breeder, you have to have a mating certificate. If she supplies this and does not register the kittens, the new owner can register the kittesn however they want to. If she does not supply this then the kittens are unregisterable and their value decreases accordingly. Few of us, I suspect, would trust the word of someone in this sort of difficulty who promised to send on the registration details at a later date - someone who is giving up, and is undergoing personal trauma, will be highly likely to forget about details like that, and trying to enforce it through the GCCF is a non-starter if the person you are trying to enforce it against has given up.

Let's hope the cat and kittens come out of this OK, because at the moment it does look as if they could very easily fall into the wrong hands.

Bia - has the stud owner been informed, do you know?

Liz


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## Milly22 (Sep 15, 2008)

I read about this lady too. I do hope she can get something sorted.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

not that i'm aware of. thing it would be wrong to go behind the ladies back tho.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, the cat breeding world is quite small so I should imagine she will know soon enough one way or the other.

Liz


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

We are getting there guys - lady knows the kittens have to go on non-active and is willing to register them herself. It's the day to day care she can't cope with. She is at the hosptial 18hrs a day and is coming to terms with the potentially imminent loss of her very dear mother only a very short time after finding out she wasn't just anemic!!!!. She is trying. Please don't judge and let me and her sort stuff out. I'm helping her and advising her the best I can - I will mention about the stud owner etc. But please accept that she isn't sat at home on the computer waiting for the money to come rolling in - communication is erratic as she is at her mother's bedside most of the time and comes home to check up on stuff just to go straight back out again. She honestly wants the best for this cat and her kittens - she isn't doing this lightly or trying to fob anyone off nor will she sell to a BYB. 

A plan is emerging and I will let you know what is happening when I can. Thanks for your help and your patience.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm not judging anyone. I've spoken to her myself and her emails come back very quickly. I am so local, offering my help and there's not much more I can say or do.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

O I'm sure she has far more on her mind than worrying about the kittens registration. It's just that with the amount of money she wants, she is going to have to understand that it becomes a commercial decision, few of us have that sort of money to risk on what would probably be a loss-making venture.

Anyway, let us know when there is something worked out, it's the welfare of the cats we are all concerned with, after all.

Bia, I would have thought you were ideal - right location, right breed ...

Liz


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Okay - she's now started to get emails from people off this forum that aren't terribly 'nice'. Please, please, please - go though me - not direct to her if you have something to say - nice or not. She hasn't really got the time to sit and go through each 'offer' with a fine toothcomb. So it's going to take a little bit of time to sort, but we think we have a solution. It's NOT about the money - but it is about the cat and the kittens. But it's also about the woman and her mother. Try to put yourself in her position and think how you would feel.

I realise that not many peole have £600 lying around - but some honest hardworking and reputable people might. PLease, you have been great and offered loads but give us time to sort it out before judging the lack of an outcome!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I have been nothing but nice to the lady and so I hope you are not accusing me!  Well, I know what I would have done. I'll back off from this now.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> I have been nothing but nice to the lady and so I hope you are not accusing me!  Well, I know what I would have done. I'll back off from this now.


No-one on this thread has been anything but nice - but there are always those lurkers who can be 'odd' shall we say - nothing personal Biawhiska, promise.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Ok cool. Just worried incase she'd taken anything the wrong way.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

If you put something on a public forum then you have to take the good with the bad. Just for the record I haven't written to her.

I hope for the cat and her kittens sake they end up in a loving home. If it truely isn't about the money then there are loads of genuine offers of help.

Is she rehoming all her dogs too ?


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I was sat pondering this earlier. What about her Dogs, Hens and Ferret?


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

They seem to breed dogs as well.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I note she thanks the stud owner for believing in her. I hope this does not put the said stud owner off believing in any other new breeder 

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Spid, is there any update on this?

Liz


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Not yet - her mum has had a couple of really bad days so everything else has been sidelined - I did email her agin this morning just awating a reply - will let you guys know the minute I do.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I've been told the Stud Owner is in control of what is happening and I think is going to take them. Though unlikely she paid the fee.


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