# Harry and Meghan



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Anyone going to watch it.

I don't have Netflix but even if I had I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of watching it.

I can't understand how he can do this to Charles and William they were always so close until she came along.

I maybe wrong but I blame her, she couldn't cope with been royal and blamed everyone else for her own short comings and is now trying to make as much money out of it as she can.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

No I dont have Netflix. Im eating popcorn and reading all the tweets on Twitter, Its Civil War between the Cambridge and Sussex fans. I'm rooting for William and kate. .


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Ooh I might watch out of curiosity, love a bit of royal/royal adjacent drama. I’m not taking sides although I’m not a fan of the Sussexes, they might have had a point at the start but they live an incredibly privileged life and really should get on with it and stop complaining.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Possibly. What I will say is imagine growing up like that ? William seems happy but Harry seems quite traumatised. There is and always has been racism in the royal family. Just last week Williams God mother had to resign due to making racist comments at an event. I do agree with @picaresque the privilege is startling.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Boxer123 said:


> Possibly. What I will say is imagine growing up like that ? William seems happy but Harry seems quite traumatised. There is and always has been racism in the royal family. Just last week Williams God mother had to resign due to making racist comments at an event. I do agree with @picaresque the privilege is startling.


Harry himself of course made some famously racist remarks, but maybe because they weren’t specific to black people but aimed at his British Asian comrades in the army Americans find it easier to ignore and cast him as a good guy in that whole area?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Won’t watch it as I’m likely to throw the tv out the window. I’m just finding the pair of them unbearably cruel and nasty. Why on earth can’t they concentrate on their own lives and leave the rest of the Royal family alone, there really is no need to broadcast to the whole world. What happened to their ’kindness’ that they preach


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

What ever happens now his pulled the draw bridge up and there won't be a way back, William will never forgive him.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

picaresque said:


> Harry himself of course made some famously racist remarks, but maybe because they weren’t specific to black people but aimed at his British Asian comrades in the army Americans find it easier to ignore and cast him as a good guy in that whole area?


Absolutley didn’t he dress as a Nazi at one point ? I’m not on either side, not a royalist at all.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

I wonder what would have happened if the Queen had not passed away when she did (remember the Queen Mother lived to be 101)?? Would Harry and Meghan Kardashian have gone ahead with this really vulgar behaviour (I couldn't see them waiting another five years) . . . I am glad, not that they are gone, but that the Queen and Philip have missed this pantomime (I would love to know what Philip would have said about it I bet the air would be blue). It is said that the royals are ''weary'' of the whole thing (understatement of the year) - I bet what they are actually saying is a sight more colourful! And to release the trailer while the Cambridges were in the US really seems terribly contrived. Team Cambridge for me . . . at least they know how to behave.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> Absolutley didn’t he dress as a Nazi at one point ? I’m not on either side, not a royalist at all.


Yes, he did, and he referred to an army colleague as ''My little P**i friend'' which was quoted copiously in many publications.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> Possibly. What I will say is imagine growing up like that ? William seems happy but Harry seems quite traumatised. There is and always has been racism in the royal family. Just last week Williams God mother had to resign due to making racist comments at an event. I do agree with @picaresque the privilege is startling.


It’s interesting about this as we are only hearing one side of the conversation as far as I’m aware. We’re there no other witnesses? The insulted lady has known the King for 20 years and is a friend I understand. However she is very much firmly on H&M side and believes Meghan were discriminated against.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Siskin said:


> It’s interesting about this as we are only hearing one side of the conversation as far as I’m aware. We’re there no other witnesses? The insulted lady has known the King for 20 years and is a friend I understand. However she is very much firmly on H&M side and believes Meghan were discriminated against.


I think there were witnesses to the incident with Williams God Mother it was at quite a public event but could be wrong.


TBH I do believe Meghan experienced discrimination in the royal family she certainly has with the press. 

However like others have said Harry is not innocent of comments either and the constant publicity doesn’t look good. But then I think the Royal family are an outdated institution rife with dirty secrets and don’t get me started on Andrew.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> I think there were witnesses to the incident with Williams God Mother it was at quite a public event but could be wrong.
> 
> 
> TBH I do believe Meghan experienced discrimination in the royal family she certainly has with the press.
> ...


In what way do you think Meghan was discriminated against?


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## rottieboys (Jan 16, 2013)

How sad to see two brothers not getting on. Harry was always seen with William and Kate.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Siskin said:


> In what way do you think Meghan was discriminated against?


Ok so I could write a really long post but I don’t want to go on. At the end of the day there are two sides I believe her when she says inappropriate comments were made about baby Archie because the royal family have such a long history of racism. This is just my opinion.

If you look at the treatment of Meghan in the press it’s disgusting they criticised her for everything from eating avacardo to holding her bump. I’ve added some comparisons. 

Now we all know what happened to Diana and I do genuinely believe Meghan was ignored when she said she was struggling. Even for the queens funeral she was being scrutinised.

I know they have exaggerated and said things that don’t add up but I don’t believe her story is fictional. I don’t agree with everything they do but the amount of hate Meghan gets is crazy.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

If Harry and Meghan felt they did not wish to be part of the Royal Family and wanted to begin a new life and live privately, it was their right to make that decision.

They have said publicly, many times that they wished to live as a 'normal' family and be financially independent. Good for them.

What I have a real issue with is their ongoing verbal assault on the Royal Family, making accusations that can neither be proved, nor disproved.

Now this six part documentary - again an open attack on Harry's family - where they talk non stop about the shortcomings of the family, how they, (H & M), were neglected, used and ignored and where they make yet more claims and accusations. They are being paid handsomely by Netflix for this, so, it seems to me that they want nothing to do with the Royal Family and wish to be financially independent, but they are making their living 'off the backs' of that family they want no connection with?

Where is the 'private life' they craved, when they push themselves constantly into the public domain?

Where is the 'financial independence' when 'dishing the dirt' on the Royal Family is their main source of income?

Unscrupulous hypocrites, both of them.

I respected their decision to walk away, but, I have no respect for them now, considering their behaviour since they did so.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

But that’s the press not the RF. 
The alleged remark about the baby’s colour from someone (they’ve never said by whom) is unclear too. Was it about the baby’s colour as in oh I hope it’s not dark skinned or was it I wonder who the baby will take after in skin colour which is a perfectly natural thing to say especially when the parents are of different ethnicities. My husband has quite a swarthy skin even more when sun has got to him and I am as white skinned as can be almost luminescent, we were asked the same question along with hair and eye colour. Interestingly when this came out on the Opera show H&M couldn’t keep their stories the same about the incident.
So who knows exactly what goes on, it’s well known the the RF don’t talk back although I suspect both Charles and William will end up being driven too especially if Harry’s book attacks Camilla or Catherine


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I really don't like meghan I thought from the start she would be trouble and I think with all her whining she has brought harry down to her level, she just out to get what she can how ever dirty it gets.

Even when you see them together he doesn't look happy.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rottieboys said:


> How sad to see two brothers not getting on. Harry was always seen with William and Kate.


Yes: I thought they were inseparable and shared so much owing to their mother's death.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Sorry that was a long post


Siskin said:


> But that’s the press not the RF.
> The alleged remark about the baby’s colour from someone (they’ve never said by whom) is unclear too. Was it about the baby’s colour as in oh I hope it’s not dark skinned or was it I wonder who the baby will take after in skin colour which is a perfectly natural thing to say especially when the parents are of different ethnicities. My husband has quite a swarthy skin even more when sun has got to him and I am as white skinned as can be almost luminescent, we were asked the same question along with hair and eye colour. Interestingly when this came out on the Opera show H&M couldn’t keep their stories the same about the incident.
> So who knows exactly what goes on, it’s well known the the RF don’t talk back although I suspect both Charles and William will end up being driven too especially if Harry’s book attacks Camilla or Catherine


I don’t believe it was an innocent comment and neither do they. We will never know however who is telling the truth it’s just my opinion. 

I do agree with @Rafa the constant selling out isn’t a great look it’s a shame they can’t move on and enjoy their freedom. Lingering on past hurt isn’t good for anyone.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Happy Paws2 said:


> I really don't like meghan I thought from the start she would be trouble and I think with all her whining she has brought harry down to her level, she just out to get what she can how ever dirty it gets.
> 
> Even when you see them together he doesn't look happy.


Meghan actually did some good work in the area of womens rights before meeting Harry.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I thought Meghan was going to be a asset to the RF especially when I realised she was mixed race, had no idea before. I remember thinking that all those black and mixed race young people would see what was possible in today’s world and what they could achieve too. It’s desperately sad that it has been reduced to what is happening now. 
Harry seems such a fragile and weak person now which wasn’t obvious when he was the party prince or in the army. He rather reminds me of his great uncle Edward VIII who abdicated who was also a party prince and seemingly controlled by his wife

William seems stronger in his mind, it seems to be almost forgotten that he went through exactly the same thing as Harry when their mother died and was only two years older


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I really do not understand what, given that they are now no longer part of the Royal Family by their own choosing, they are hoping to achieve by their behaviour?

I'm sure there were rights and wrongs on both sides, as in most families, but exactly what are they expecting to gain by these shocking interviews, documentaries, autobiographies?

I couldn't be money, could it?


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Siskin said:


> But that’s the press not the RF.
> The alleged remark about the baby’s colour from someone (they’ve never said by whom) is unclear too. Was it about the baby’s colour as in oh I hope it’s not dark skinned or was it I wonder who the baby will take after in skin colour which is a perfectly natural thing to say especially when the parents are of different ethnicities. My husband has quite a swarthy skin even more when sun has got to him and I am as white skinned as can be almost luminescent, we were asked the same question along with hair and eye colour. Interestingly when this came out on the Opera show H&M couldn’t keep their stories the same about the incident.


I know some people were unaware that Meghan was mixed race, however, people in the royal family wouldn’t have been. With that context, asking about the colour of the baby is seen as a racial micro aggression. I might not think much of a comment like that because I’m white, but to people who have grown up and had to deal with racism in all aspects of their lives, then racial micro aggressions are demoralising and stressful and can damage mental health. Even if the person who allegedly said it meant nothing by it, it can totally be seen as colourism. Given the royal family has a bit of problematic background when it comes to race and colonialism … it feels like something that really shouldn’t have been said.

I won’t be watching the documentary.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

If a racist remark was made by a member of the Royal Family regarding the colour of Archie's skin, I really believe it has been mentioned publicly and on National television enough times.

To me, when Meghan brought it up on the Oprah Winfrey show and was asked whether Archie was denied the title of Prince because of the colour of his skin, (which Meghan had said), she then said "potentially".

When Harry joined the interview, he mentioned the incident, but, when asked who had said it, he said "I don't want to talk about that any more".

To make such a claim repeatedly, but refuse to elaborate or show any proof is 'iffy' in my opinion.

They don't come across as credible and, considering the damage they appear to be trying to cause the Royal Family, their claims and accusations need to be a lot less vague.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh I'm so conflicted on all of this, and it makes me so uncomfortable to see it all unfold. 

I'm a big believer that drama doesn't find you, you either created it, invite it, or associate it. So there's that. 

I also totally understand needing to distance yourself from family. 20 years ago OH and I did just that. (deleted) It's sad, but it's also okay.

My point of telling that though was that we live in a very small town so there are many times where someone has made the connection and asked if we're related. If I ever get pressed about anything I give as little information as possible and move on. "We haven't talked in a while" and then quickly change the subject. I'm actually pretty proud of myself how well I've honed the art of changing the conversation and avoiding questions  
I know they sometimes go around saying stuff about me, but I've learned to let it all go. The truth _always_ outs. Like, always. And the truth there has outed, over and over, and still I keep my mouth firmly shut.

So it's very possible to separate from family, have family drama, and not need to publicize your side of the story. And what good does it do anyway? Why does anyone else need to know about what's going on in family affairs? Not everything needs to be public. 

Now the flip side is my other story. I am a survivor of... well of a lot. I have an interesting story to tell and I've often thought I could help give others hope and encouragement by sharing my story. But the problem is, my story is also intertwined with others and not all of it is mine to tell. So again I keep my mouth shut. There are ways to help without making it about you and your experiences. And I've found that's generally more helpful anyway. 

So if Harry and Meghan want to fight racism and bigotry and do their part to make the world a better place, they can do it without making it about them. If they want to....


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## 1529122 (Dec 29, 2021)

I won't be watching it either. 

In the beginning I really liked Megan and even when they chose to leave I completely understood after what happened to Diana I could understand Harry's concerns however since then I've have disliked them more and more all they've done is go back on what they've said. They want privacy yet they've done nothing but interview after interview now a documentary. 

But since moving to the US I feel Megan has shown her true colors of who she really is as she really does remind me of amber heard which is not a good thing for those who don't know who she is. 

I'm just getting a bad vibe from Megan now and feel she is a narcissist. 

Regarding the recent incident at the palace I know on Twitter I've seen a tweet by a women who said she contacted Ngozi Fulani ( this was way before all this happened) and she was turned away because she was mixed race not black apparently Ngozi Fulani only helps DV survivors/ victims who are black women and I saw a tweet going around that Ngozi Fulani put out a while back were she accused Charles and Camilla of committing DV against Megan. 

I just can't help but feel she's milking this a little now. I just don't feel their was any reason to go to the press she easily could have sorted this in private.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> So if Harry and Meghan want to fight racism and bigotry and do their part to make the world a better place, they can do it without making it about them. If they want to....



I agree with this wholeheartedly and this is mostly what troubles me about all of this.

It's no secret that they're being paid millions of pounds for this latest documentary and, what will it achieve?

Harry is set to release his autobiography in January, which is basically all about the transgressions of the Royal Family. Again, what will this achieve, other than a fat bank balance?

It should, I believe, be remembered also that the Royal Family has lost both Prince Philip and Queen Elizabeth within the last two years. So much grief to deal with has to have been incredibly hard. Not one of them has responded to Harry & Meghans' claims with even a negative word about either of them.

I really feel they have had their say and need to stop. They're achieving nothing and must be causing much distress.


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## BarkieMcDogface (7 mo ago)

I will NOT be watching, I didn't even watch their Oprah interview, I have not even been curious and caught clips of it months later. What I cannot understand is if they wanted privacy, a private life and to be be left alone because they felt hunted like his mother, why didn't they just disappear from the limelight and live in obscurity? I think they are playing the victim role because everyone likes someone who is long-suffering, someone who has been betrayed and mis-treated. If they were on a reality TV competition show, they would front runners to win put it that way. 

I am sick of the media constantly reporting about them on online versions of newspapers or if it is trending on Twitter. I have even gone so far as blocking their various hashtags and it / they still pops up!! Why is the media giving them the satisfaction of reporting on them?? Remember, she is an actress. This act that she is playing currently, doting, doey-eyed, tactile wife, marrying into the family is her biggest role yet forget Suits or that gameshow she was on. Harry looks miserable, he has done since his nan passed away. Him and his brother had great camaraderie and there were clips of them making fun of each other, especially William saying to Harry 'Well, at least I'm not ginger!' No more banter like that, that ship has sailed. 

On a separate note, one thing I don't get is this recent racism saga. I have watched alot of shows with people of colour, usually Youtubers who are entertainers / comedians, if they interview anyone they ask 'where are you originally from?' These videos are about 5 or so years old. People have been asking that for years, I see it as small talk! I would not be offended if anyone asked what my heritage is, if anything, I would be proud to say I am of Caribbean descent. I wonder if it was deemed offensive because she was the only person of colour in the room? I don't know. 

The Sussexes always seem to coincidentally do things publicly that clash with the rest of the family. Meghan announced on the following Monday after Eugenie got married that she was pregnant [with Archie] - stealing the bride's thunder media wise. They did their Oprah interview when Phillip was ill in early 2021 and people thought that was in poor taste and said it should be cancelled. Phillip died a month later. They have now released the trailer of this mockumentary when The Wales' were in Boston USA.

Oh this Netflix thing will be release just over three months since The Queen passed away. She is not even cold yet (I am sorry if this phrase sounds heartless right now). I agree with an earlier poster, I wonder if they would have done this if she and Phillip were still with us. 

I did see bits of a new trailer and they have included clips of Diana being chased by the paparazzi, Diana to this day is still regarded as a martyr and victim and I think those two are jumping on the bandwagon. I am very suprised The King has not asked them to do a non-disclosure by not speaking disparaging against the family. Either way Haz has well and truly burned the bridge now. I don't know what he will do and what the atmos will be like if, God forbid, there is another family gathering such a funeral.

I wonder what they will do when it is the Coronation in June? That will be the same day as Archie's birthday, I bet they will post loads of pictures of him on the day upstaging King Charles - remember they have not done the typical parent thing and posted incessant pictures of their kids for all to see online just yet. I have heard that Harry won't go to the Coronation because that was where his mother's funeral was held.

I do feel so bad for the cousins, George, Charlotte, Louis, Archie and Lilibet should be as thick as thieves right now. It really is sad.


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## BarkieMcDogface (7 mo ago)

Siskin said:


> He rather reminds me of his great uncle Edward VIII who abdicated who was also a party prince and seemingly controlled by his wife
> 
> William seems stronger in his mind, it seems to be almost forgotten that he went through exactly the same thing as Harry when their mother died and was only two years older


Your first sentence is the perfect comparison. If you watched the Crown, I think it was the first season, there was a scene with Edward playing the bagpipes crying while he saw how well his niece adjusted to being the monarch. That scene was open to interpretation. He was alone, missing his home country and family. 

I like William, maybe because he is a few months older than me. We are also the first bornes. He has adjusted quite well, maybe he is stoic like his paternal grandmother, when her father died, she had to have a stiff upper lip and get on with it.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

There is talk that Harry should have his titles removed, if that happens then he will still be a prince as he is royal blood, that can’t be taken away as far as I’m aware. However Meghan will then be entitled to call herself Princess Henry, but I’m not sure many will get the distinction that she should only be referred to as a Princess Henry and not Princess Meghan which I’m sure she will think of an upgrade.
I‘m not sure how these things work, but if just the Dukedom is removed they are left with either the Earl and Countess Dumbarton or the Baron and Baroness Kilkeel. I have heard that Meghan rejected the Dumbarton title as she didn’t like the word, which couldn’t have gone down very well with the inhabitants of Dumbarton. Baron is rather a comedown from Duke.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

She did.

Archie was offered the title Earl of Dumbarton, but she declined on his behalf.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I am torn about the documentary.

I am so angry about it and their behaviour that I really want to boycott it but there is also the part of me that wants to see first hand exactly what they have concocted rather than just the clips on the news and social media after it has aired. 

It leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth and I can only hope that the people who choose to watch for whatever reason also feel the same way.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Psygon said:


> I know some people were unaware that Meghan was mixed race, however, people in the royal family wouldn’t have been. With that context, asking about the colour of the baby is seen as a racial micro aggression. I might not think much of a comment like that because I’m white, but to people who have grown up and had to deal with racism in all aspects of their lives, then racial micro aggressions are demoralising and stressful and can damage mental health.


What damages mental health is conflating actual aggression and violence with random comments that may or may not be unkind or ignorant. 
If you live your life assuming the worst of people, you're going to be miserable. 

It's a question I get all. the. time. "Where are you from? No, where are you _really_ from?" Seriously, I could buy that island in Scotland if I had a penny for every time I've been asked where I'm from. Hell, I don't know where I'm from! 

I also get asked at least 2 or 3 times a year, by curious teenagers cautiously, trying to be respectful, but with burning curiosity, and not an ounce of malice, "Mrs ___ what are you? Like are you mixed? Are you Puertorican?" (Which I honestly find cute because many of them simply don't know the term latino).
And I tell them where I was born, where my parents are from, why I look like I do, and that my daughter is blonde with blue eyes, that I married a ****** and then I tell them what a ****** is, and it's a great conversation and we have fun and they learn all sorts of stuff they didn't know.
And sometimes I have adults ask me too. And again, good conversation ensues. 

I mean, yeah, I suppose I could get all offended and report the adult who asks me to HR, and maybe go to the news and talk about how racist people are and how these microaggressions cause me anxiety and make me feel small. But then I remember that Eleanor Roosevelt said no one can make you feel inferior without your permission, and that Audrey Hepburn said to have eyes that see the best in others. And I smile and answer and build another bridge


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh dear god the forum bleeping out a common Latin expression has pissed me off more than makes sense to me!  
Gr.ingo is NOT an offensive term unless used that way. Lord help us that we have come to everyday language being censored just in case someone somewhere might be offended.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Rafa said:


> they are making their living 'off the backs' of that family


In fact making their living_ trashing_ his family - and I believe the only member of her family invited to the wedding was her mother; Harry supposedly has not yet met the rest of her family.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> He rather reminds me of his great uncle Edward VIII who abdicated who was also a party prince and seemingly controlled by his wife


Yes, I thought the same - and both married an American divorcee; Edward wrote a book too, though not for several years after the abdication.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I beginning to think, they think the world revolves round them, they have to keep doing something that will make headlines.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

I might watch The Crown if it's ever shown over here, but as per normal will take it with a very large pinch of salt.



Calvine said:


> Yes, I thought the same - and both married an American divorcee; Edward wrote a book too, though not for several years after the abdication.


I've also thought Harry is much like Edward VIII. The big difference of course is that it was known even before his marriage that Edward was a big fan of Hitler. as was Mrs Simpson It was a great source of worry to the RF and was one of the reasons why King George, Queen Elizabeth and the Princesses remained in London during the war.

Historians now believe that after his marriage Edward actively colluded with the Nazis.



https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/the-passionate-eye/historians-believe-the-duke-of-windsor-actively-collaborated-with-the-nazis-during-the-second-world-war-1.6635225


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## tristy (5 mo ago)

I wont be watching as we can read all about it in the press etc. if we want to. I did see the oprah show and the outright lies were unbelievable. It doesn't take much to google what was said and what the truth was. That they were married 3 days before the official wedding, it sounds like the rehearsal. That Charles had cut him off financially, He had £ 4.5m , plus some from the royal purse. That has now stopped as they requested not to work for the Royals. That their son would not be a prince because of his colour, he is now as he is a grandson of the soveriegn, but as Charles wants to reduce the royal family that could change. That Megan was held prisoner and had her passport taken away. It was taken so that the flights could be arranged for the royal tour of South Africa. 
They want their cake and eat it, she thought that she would be the new Diana, it'll never happen. They want their independence, fine, let them get on with it. Apparently, when they came over here , alot of the royal household wont talk to them as they are afraid they will be quoted for netflix .


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## HappyMangle (Jun 16, 2021)

Just watched the trailer yesterday. Very excited to see it soon!
Still need to figure out what kind of vpn i should use for the Netflix https://www.firesticktricks.com/best-netflix-vpn.html. Anyone has recommendations for me maybe? Cheers guys


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

tristy said:


> I wont be watching as we can read all about it in the press etc. if we want to. I did see the oprah show and the outright lies were unbelievable. It doesn't take much to google what was said and what the truth was. That they were married 3 days before the official wedding, it sounds like the rehearsal. That Charles had cut him off financially, He had £ 4.5m , plus some from the royal purse. That has now stopped as they requested not to work for the Royals. That their son would not be a prince because of his colour, he is now as he is a grandson of the soveriegn, but as Charles wants to reduce the royal family that could change. That Megan was held prisoner and had her passport taken away. It was taken so that the flights could be arranged for the royal tour of South Africa.
> They want their cake and eat it, she thought that she would be the new Diana, it'll never happen. They want their independence, fine, let them get on with it. Apparently, when they came over here , alot of the royal household wont talk to them as they are afraid they will be quoted for netflix .


I think I will watch otherwise I won't have a clue what the rest of you are talking about on Friday! But yes, apparently even more lies have been rooted out in the trailers too. Allegedly.


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

What are Harry and Meghan wishing to achieve with this "documentary" ? That's what I'd like to know.

They just seem to be achieving negative headlines, polarised views and an argument that can't be resolved at the moment.
And an obscene amount of money of course.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Boxer123 said:


> Ok so I could write a really long post but I don’t want to go on. At the end of the day there are two sides I believe her when she says inappropriate comments were made about baby Archie because the royal family have such a long history of racism. This is just my opinion.
> 
> If you look at the treatment of Meghan in the press it’s disgusting they criticised her for everything from eating avacardo to holding her bump. I’ve added some comparisons.
> 
> ...


Yes , very unfair and upsetting but they do this to create rivalry, Not everyone reads the Mail and it didnt turn lots of people against them .They did the same to Diana and Fergie, that's why they fell out in the end . They've picked on most of the Royal family. 

I think with meghan , it was a culture shock , I dont think the Americans understand the way the Royal Family works and having to curtsey to the late Queen etc. Then she had a baby and all that entails . I get why they spent time in Canada but if I remember correctly , they announced they weren't coming back to the public before they told the Queen . They are making loads of money of the backs of the Royal Family and while should support his wife , he didn't have to stab his family in the back . 

i hope they dont come to the Kings Coronation but I expect they will as they can use that for another Netflix epssode.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I would like to know who is the photographer that appears to be living with them catching all these candid family moments such as Meghan apparently crying (could be howling with laughter) and giving each other hugs etc. They are beautifully shot black and white pictures, surely not staged, but then Meghan is an actress and has said previously that she is able to make tears flow very easily, it was one of her claims to fame.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I have a Meghan sister. I stood up for myself because she being a bit of a bully, and instead of apologising, she twisted everything round, called me passive aggressive, that I wanted a row to happen and that I was waiting to pounce, and various lies and distortion of the truth....5 years on, she's still on a Toxic Parent page "liking" things about having an abusive childhood, a narcissistic mum who isn't fit to be called a mother (all gross lies)
She's ignored olive branches, won't give us her side of the story. Worst of all, my niece won't speak to me either, and I don't know why.
We have no idea who she's spreading her lies to, and the full extent of them....we can only be quiet about it as a result. 
It is so scary how easy it is to make a lie become truth.

I'm not saying the royals are innocent, but I really dislike the constant attacks on people who can't give their side. 
They wanted out, they got out, so now shut up.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Magyarmum said:


> I might watch The Crown if it's ever shown over here, but as per normal will take it with a very large pinch of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And there's a famous picture of him giving a Nazi salute also.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> I would like to know who is the photographer that appears to be living with them catching all these candid family moments such as Meghan apparently crying (could be howling with laughter) and giving each other hugs etc. They are beautifully shot black and white pictures, surely not staged, but then Meghan is an actress and has said previously that she is able to make tears flow very easily, it was one of her claims to fame.


Yes: she managed a few tears for the Queen's funeral I recall.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Gemmaa said:


> I have a Meghan sister. I stood up for myself because she being a bit of a bully, and instead of apologising, she twisted everything round, called me passive aggressive, that I wanted a row to happen and that I was waiting to pounce, and various lies and distortion of the truth....5 years on, she's still on a Toxic Parent page "liking" things about having an abusive childhood, a narcissistic mum who isn't fit to be called a mother (all gross lies)
> She's ignored olive branches, won't give us her side of the story. Worst of all, my niece won't speak to me either, and I don't know why.
> We have no idea who she's spreading her lies to, and the full extent of them....we can only be quiet about it as a result.
> It is so scary how easy it is to make a lie become truth.
> ...


I'm sorry to hear that Gemmaa. OH has a toxic sister. We havent spoken to her for some years , She physically attacked him at his parents house and he had gouges on his face and bruises on his arms , he pushed her away and she then went round all the neighbours and told them he attacked her. he wouldnt hurt a fly. She trapped me in my car and made me cry , Id knocked at her door and called through the letter box , she wouldnt answer but when I got back to the car , she came storming out , I had my car door open and she stood there so i couldnt close the door or drive off . I said if she didnt back off I'd call the police so then she told everyone I'd threatened her . It was about his parents Will , they'd died 5 years earlier and she had kept the money that was his , What gets me is that she moved into his parents house with her grown up children and is still there , she makes their life a misery . Its half OHs and we dont want to make them homeless.


ETA to remove OHs name


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

They left and went to the States for a quiet and private life, so why do they just do that and leave everyone a lone. I'd be happy if I never heard of them again.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Some might find this useful for defining both/either Me-again and/or Harried.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I would have thought the Royal family would have lawyers who could gag Netflix.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Happy Paws2 said:


> They left and went to the States for a quiet and private life, so why do they just do that and leave everyone a lone. I'd be happy if I never heard of them again.


And yet you started this thread!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Unbelievable that they have received some award or other for (basically) accusing the RF of racism - an accusation they seem not to be able to substantiate with facts, and of which the two of them seemed to give differing accounts.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I have always had a soft spot for both Harry and William. It breaks my heart to see these 2 brothers not getting along, they were so close. The media has a lot to answer for. One minute Harry is a hero and now they slate him off on a daily basis. 
I don't think Charles has/ is handling the situation very well at all. Harry must feel like he has nobody that will listen to him, apart from Megan.
They broke a golden rule as far as the royal family are concerned, they aired their side of the story. Which i believe they/ he had the right to do.
I don't have netflix but if i did, i would watch it.*


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

SusieRainbow said:


> And yet you started this thread!



I know!
I just wondered many people would give them the satisfaction of watching them.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> I would have thought the Royal family would have lawyers who could gag Netflix.


I suppose you could say that the fact that they haven't shows they have nothing to hide? 
Maybe it's just the usual "never complain, never explain" approach? 

I'm not sure how to feel about the accusations of a _family_ being racist. And full disclosure here, I don't follow the news on any of them very closely so it may be that there are more serious allegations that I don't know about, but so far it seems like it's all based on things that were said, no? 

Doesn't everyone have a random uncle who says awful things? Does that mean you're racist if you invite Uncle over to family dinner and he says something that everyone cringes at but you just roll your eyes and move on because you know there's no use in addressing it? 
Or maybe you have a relative from another generation who's just not aware of current sensibilities. I have one of those and I'll say to him, "oh, you can't say that!" And he'll look at me with genuine innocence and ask what was wrong with what he said and is very willing to learn what to say instead. 
So does having a relative, even a close relative who says insensitive things make an entire family racist? 
Maybe there's more to the story, IDK....


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Siskin said:


> I thought Meghan was going to be a asset to the RF especially when I realised she was mixed race, had no idea before. I remember thinking that all those black and mixed race young people would see what was possible in today’s world and what they could achieve too. It’s desperately sad that it has been reduced to what is happening now.
> Harry seems such a fragile and weak person now which wasn’t obvious when he was the party prince or in the army. He rather reminds me of his great uncle Edward VIII who abdicated who was also a party prince and seemingly controlled by his wife
> 
> William seems stronger in his mind, it seems to be almost forgotten that he went through exactly the same thing as Harry when their mother died and was only two years older


*Edward was a traitor, that cannot be said about Harry.
As for William, they both lost their mother But, William would have had far more support than Harry because he was next inline to the throne after Charles.*


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> I suppose you could say that the fact that they haven't shows they have nothing to hide?
> Maybe it's just the usual "never complain, never explain" approach?
> 
> I'm not sure how to feel about the accusations of a _family_ being racist. And full disclosure here, I don't follow the news on any of them very closely so it may be that there are more serious allegations that I don't know about, but so far it seems like it's all based on things that were said, no?
> ...


I could well imagine Philip, famous lifelong for his terrible but actually quite funny ''gaffes'' coming out with something that could have been taken entirely the wrong way. It was just the way he was. I remember at some visit to a factory he announced that ''that fuse box looks as though it must have been put in by an Indian''; he then said, 'Oh dear, I meant cowboys - I'm always getting my cowboys and Indians mixed up''. Several newspapers actually composed lists of his famous gaffes - great long lists they were, too - some real blinders. Some of them were rather ill-judged, admittedly. The Queen said very little and dismissed it with, ''Recollections may vary''.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Edward was a traitor, that cannot be said about Harry.
> As for William, they both lost their mother But, William would have had far more support than Harry because he was next inline to the throne after Charles.*


You can’t know that for sure


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Siskin said:


> You can’t know that for sure


*Which part are you referring to?*


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

All this ‘racism‘ stuff. I‘m not that well-informed but could it have been in the same vein as ‘Do you think your baby will have ginger hair?’ and not meant offensively?

As for the recent event, that lady looked quite elderly to me. I don’t know if it’s been made public what she actually said, but a lot of us oldies have trouble keeping up with what’s PC and what’s not and sometimes say stuff that isn’t acceptable without even realising.

Not sticking up for anybody particularly, just saying.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Linda Weasel said:


> All this ‘racism‘ stuff. I‘m not that well-informed but could it have been in the same vein as ‘Do you think your baby will have ginger hair?’ and not meant offensively?


Not sure you are allowed to refer to someone as 'ginger' though!! There's so much you can't say that I get out of bed each day wondering whom I might offend! A total stranger in the supermarket suddenly asked me, "Are you Irish?". I said no and turned away to prevent any more interrogation - maybe I should have called security and had him taken away and banned from Sainsbury's for life.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Linda Weasel said:


> All this ‘racism‘ stuff. I‘m not that well-informed but could it have been in the same vein as ‘Do you think your baby will have ginger hair?’ and not meant offensively?
> 
> As for the recent event, that lady looked quite elderly to me. I don’t know if it’s been made public what she actually said, but a lot of us oldies have trouble keeping up with what’s PC and what’s not and sometimes say stuff that isn’t acceptable without even realising.
> 
> Not sticking up for anybody particularly, just saying.


My daughter informed me last night that using periods (full stops) when texting can be seen as passive aggressive. I had no idea! No telling who I've been offending with my punctuation 

Racism is a hard thing to grab hold of. Especially if you base it on things like "microaggressions" (I hate that term) or people's attitudes. 
Being denied a job because of your race is actual racism. Telling your child not to marry someone because they're a different race is actual racism. Beating someone up for sitting in the wrong part of the bus is racism. 

Speculating on a baby's skin color is something else entirely. It _could_ be coming from a place of racism, or it could be innocent curiosity. 

I'm fairly dark skinned, especially in the summer, dark hair, dark eyes. I had two babies who were blonde as infants. On one occasion I was in Barnes & Noble (a book store) in the children's section, and a woman stopped to interact with the kids (toddlers at that point) and in the course of that interaction with them and me, she asked me if I was their nanny.
I was taken aback, not because I thought it was racist, but just because I thought it was obvious I was their mom. Then I realized, no, it's not obvious. Not everyone knows how genetics works. 
And in the way the universe works, if she had asked me about 10 years earlier if I was the nanny, I would have said yes, because in my late teens I was an au-pair for a blonde, blue eyed babe. And was often asked if I was mom or nanny because nannies were very common in that community. I never thought a thing of it. I felt like it was obvious I was the nanny, not the mom!


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Calvine said:


> Not sure you are allowed to refer to someone as 'ginger' though!! There's so much you can't say that I gat out of bed each day wondering whom I might offend! A total stranger in the supermarket suddenly asked me, "Are you Irish?". I said no and turned away to prevent any more interrogations - maybe I should have called security and had him taken away and banned from Sainsbury's for life.


Haha that reminds of of when I was asked if I was Arab the day after 9/11 (to be fair the questioner was only young, same as me). I’m so obviously white with a ruddy complexion inherited from my English father but I have dark hair and dark eyes so apparently was fair game. My mother is really dark with quite swarthy skin and has been asked more than once if she has Romany blood or is of Indian heritage. A lot of Welsh and other Celtic people are quite dark though, that’s all it is as far as we know. Look at Tom Jones.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

picaresque said:


> Haha that reminds of of when I was asked if I was Arab the day after 9/11 (to be fair the questioner was only young, same as me). I’m so obviously white with a ruddy complexion inherited from my English father but I have dark hair and dark eyes so apparently was fair game. My mother is really dark with quite swarthy skin and has been asked more than once if she has Romany blood or is of Indian heritage. A lot of Welsh and other Celtic people are quite dark though, that’s all it is as far as we know. Look at Tom Jones.


My husband gets this as he is dark skinned, dark hair and eyes and also has a prominent fairly roman nose, his mother did too. When he’s been in the Middle East many of the locals thought he was from their country and spoke to him in Arabic 


JANICE199 said:


> *Which part are you referring to?*


That William was given more support then Harry


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

God (am I still allowed to use that word) knows who I've been offending then. I use full stops, commas, colons and semicolons when writing anything - and shock, horror vowels! 

Its worth remembering though that racism works all ways, being discriminated against for being white is just as racist as being discriminated against for being black or Asian.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

kimthecat said:


> I'm sorry to hear that Gemmaa. OH has a toxic sister. We havent spoken to her for some years , She physically attacked him at his parents house and he had gouges on his face and bruises on his arms , he pushed her away and she then went round all the neighbours and told them he attacked her. he wouldnt hurt a fly. She trapped me in my car and made me cry , Id knocked at her door and called through the letter box , she wouldnt answer but when I got back to the car , she came storming out , I had my car door open and she stood there so i couldnt close the door or drive off . I said if she didnt back off I'd call the police so then she told everyone I'd threatened her . It was about his parents Will , they'd died 5 years earlier and she had kept the money that was his , What gets me is that she moved into his parents house with her grown up children and is still there , she makes their life a misery . Its half OHs and we dont want to make them homeless.
> 
> 
> ETA to remove OHs name


Ah jeez! That's awful! She makes my sister seem likeable in comparison!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Linda Weasel said:


> All this ‘racism‘ stuff. I‘m not that well-informed but could it have been in the same vein as ‘Do you think your baby will have ginger hair?’ and not meant offensively?
> 
> As for the recent event, that lady looked quite elderly to me. I don’t know if it’s been made public what she actually said, but a lot of us oldies have trouble keeping up with what’s PC and what’s not and sometimes say stuff that isn’t acceptable without even realising.
> 
> Not sticking up for anybody particularly, just saying.


If she had asked only once, maybe, but apparently she asked several times which put an entirely different slant on it for the lady being asked it would seem.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

The award H&M won for various reasons including "that they were receiving this recognition because they spoke out against racism within the royal family. " 

I must say I felt angry at that mentioning of the Royal Family because I dont believe it's true.

The Kennedy , Ripple of Hope award. The MC was Alex Baldwin , the man who abused his young daughter on the phone and who killed someone albeit by accident 🙄


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## tristy (5 mo ago)

I know that we have gone off on a tangent , but it is difficult for us oldies as although we can learn as we go along , so much changes that we can't keep up with it. e.g. first it was black, then coloured, then people of colour, half caste, mixed race then what country they're decended from like african american. What about the Asians, I really get mixed up there, so where are we now? It's like the old school lesson of describe an orange without using the word orange. Which brings us nicely back to Harry & the mrs. I think if he has too much to say against King Charles they will be asking again, who is really his father. It does annoy me when they put Diana on a pedestal and down Charles for his affair with Camilla when Diana had muliple affairs


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I know a mixed race lady in our street ( i'm an oldie and I still say lady when it should be woman) She said they get [email protected] from both sides which must be really hurtful . Back in the day when I worked in Southall with POC , it was We're all the same under our skin . I still think that though I don't say it.
What really annoys me is white people who say racist things and expect you to agree with them because you are white . I never let anyone get away with that.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

kimthecat said:


> The award H&M won for various reasons including "that they were receiving this recognition because they spoke out against racism within the royal family. "
> 
> I must say I felt angry at that mentioning of the Royal Family becuase I dont believe it's true.


Again I’m just annoyed at the weird double standard where Harry’s own overt, documented racism (which was a long time ago to be fair and one assumes he knows better now) is totally glossed over but alleged ‘microaggressions’ makes a whole institution, or even our whole country, irredeemably racist. Can’t believe I’m sticking up for the royals here. The Lady Hussey thing makes me cringe but she’s an upper class woman from a different era who probably hasn’t much of an idea how things work in the real world and was just clueless and insensitive which is shit for whoever had to converse with her at functions but doesn’t make her a terrible bigot. I think America with its own blotted history is just enjoying being able to stick the boot in and say ‘See! They’re even worse!’. The obsession with race and colour and the whole ‘one drop’ thing is an American import anyway, as is identity politics.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

picaresque said:


> Again I’m just annoyed at the weird double standard where Harry’s own overt, documented racism (which was a long time ago to be fair and one assumes he knows better now) is totally glossed over but alleged ‘microaggressions’ makes a whole institution, or even our whole country, irredeemably racist. Can’t believe I’m sticking up for the royals here. The Lady Hussey thing makes me cringe but she’s an upper class woman from a different era who probably hasn’t much of an idea how things work in the real world and was just clueless and insensitive which is shit for whoever had to converse with her at functions but doesn’t make her a terrible bigot. I think America with its own blotted history is just enjoying being able to stick the boot in and say ‘See! They’re even worse!’. The obsession with race and colour and the whole ‘one drop’ thing is an American import anyway, as is identity politics.


I guess it depends on what you personally believe, but its suggested that microaggressions are an indicator of institutionalised racism. Why? Because they are little things that people don’t even think twice about saying but tend to come from a time when racism was a lot more overt. So in order to properly remove racism from society you have to tackle the small stuff as well as the bigger, more in your face stuff, otherwise it just carries on. I think people that have experienced racism in workplaces etc, yes it’s the big more outright racism that really upsets them, but it’s the small micro aggressive stuff that wears them down day after day. I guess it depends on peoples experiences of how these things feel to them and how they impact them. I think my view on this was changed when listening to black colleagues at work, and hearing them talk about how some of this stuff made them feel.

I should say I honestly don’t know if the royal family was really racist towards Meghan, no idea if I believe what happened or not. Just commenting on my view of microaggressions.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Been caught out lying too many times to be credible


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Apparently, the trailers are rife with inaccuracy too; photos being used that were taken at events they didn't even attend, voice-overs used without permission; intrusion claims when they'd actually given permission....


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Deguslave said:


> God knows who I've been offending then.


Most of the country, I imagine! Me, I am personally devastated.


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## BarkieMcDogface (7 mo ago)

I just popped on Twitter, just to see what is going on in general and lo and behold, they are trending once again so I have now deactivated and if I do not log in within 30 days I believe, the account will be deleted. I wanted to delete that platform anyway because of the vibe on there but these two were the final straw! I feel all grown up and independent now! 😂🤣


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## Annealise (Nov 29, 2015)

Siskin said:


> It’s interesting about this as we are only hearing one side of the conversation as far as I’m aware. We’re there no other witnesses? The insulted lady has known the King for 20 years and is a friend I understand. However she is very much firmly on H&M side and believes Meghan were discriminated against.


I doubt very much if many 80 years olds would ask the right politically correct question ' What is your ethnicity ' on meeting someone in an outfit representing an African country. The lady in question noticed a person in national dress and wondered where she was from/ whom she was representing. I don't consider that racism. She just worded things a bit wrong as many people of that generation do. The insulted woman come have easily informed her that she was British but wearing her parents homeland traditional dress from wherever where.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Psygon said:


> I think my view on this was changed when listening to black colleagues at work, and hearing them talk about how some of this stuff made them feel.


That's interesting to me because the colleagues I work with by and large find this idea of microaggressions condescending and are sick and tired of it all. 
I have a lot of colleagues who are black or mixed race. Some I'm very close with - like share a hotel room at conferences, long drives with long talks close with. We do trainings on this type of stuff and we're at the point of annoyance with overly careful language and overexamination of intentions and hidden meanings in common expressions. 

John McWhorter (a black man) has written extensively on the "detour" of microaggressions and how it's not really that helpful, or not as helpful as we would like to think it is. I tend to agree with him. But then we're both Gen Xers and I'm starting to think more and more that this divide is not one of race but more generational.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Really, what, in modern society, truly is racism?

To me, maybe being simplistic, it's believing someone of a different race to yourself is somehow inferior.

When I was in the maternity unit, years ago, having had my first Son, there was a girl in a room, who had a baby girl. I looked at the baby one day and said "She's beautiful. Her skin is gorgeous". The Mother said "thank you. I'm half Indian, that's why her skin is that way".

Would what I said now be considered a racist remark?


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## tristy (5 mo ago)

a while ago I bumped into a friend of our's in the local hospital , he is black and I commented that he looked as white as a sheet. Another friend who was with me said that I couldn't say that, so I told her to go away. It turned out that my first friend had some very bad news and was in shock. Perhaps I should have said that he looks pale , but he was not offended in the slightest and was glad of a friend to talk to. Sometimes it's not what you say , but the way that you say it.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I think Its difficult for the older generations to keep up with the changes. I understand that BAME is on the way out and POC is in. I only know that because I learnt that from Twitter.


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## tristy (5 mo ago)

kimthecat said:


> I think Its difficult for the older generations to keep up with the changes. I understand that BAME is on the way out and POC is in. I only know that because I learnt that from Twitter.


you are so right and the acronyms drive me up the wall. What is POC, I have looked it up and there are too many meanings for it 🤣


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> That's interesting to me because the colleagues I work with by and large find this idea of microaggressions condescending and are sick and tired of it all.
> I have a lot of colleagues who are black or mixed race. Some I'm very close with - like share a hotel room at conferences, long drives with long talks close with. We do trainings on this type of stuff and we're at the point of annoyance with overly careful language and overexamination of intentions and hidden meanings in common expressions.
> 
> John McWhorter (a black man) has written extensively on the "detour" of microaggressions and how it's not really that helpful, or not as helpful as we would like to think it is. I tend to agree with him. But then we're both Gen Xers and I'm starting to think more and more that this divide is not one of race but more generational.


I suppose that this is one of those things where experiences really frame the way you think. I do agree to an extent that some of these things may be driven by a generational divide, although I'm not entirely sure I fully believe in these concepts of gen x'ers or baby boomers. For context we appear to have had different experiences that have led to our views but, like you, I'm a gen x'er. Maybe there is also a where you live/grew up thing in here too?

In terms of whether people find things like microaggressions and the over examination of intentions, again I suspect what you think about those come down to what you've experienced. When speaking to colleagues at work i was both shocked at the amount they have had happen to them through their careers and disappointed at how invisible some of it had been to me.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

tristy said:


> you are so right and the acronyms drive me up the wall. What is POC, I have looked it up and there are too many meanings for it 🤣


POC is people of colour. I have heard it said that some black people don’t like it as it’s too close to coloured which become a derogatory term some time ago now


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Psygon said:


> Maybe there is also a where you live/grew up thing in here too?


Maybe, I'm in the southern US and these are people who have grown up here, who's parents went to segregated and newly de-segregated schools. Overt racism is still very much in living memory. I think that colors perceptions a lot too.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Deguslave said:


> being discriminated against for being white


 Yes indeed: tell me about it - remember this classic? Not that long ago. 
And this from the BBC who pretend to be so perfect, politically correct and fair minded. Not sure if this is still how they recruit staff?

BBC discrimination row advertising job ethnic minorities | Evening Standard


















































































































































































































Deguslave said:


> being discriminated against for being white


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Deguslave said:


> God (am I still allowed to use that word) knows who I've been offending then. I use full stops, commas, colons and semicolons when writing anything - and shock, horror vowels!
> 
> *Its worth remembering though that racism works all ways, being discriminated against for being white is just as racist as being discriminated against for being black or Asian.*


I've been called a "white b*****" many times, once by a drunk wielding a machete which was rather scary..


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Obviously im being incredibly thick 
But 
Could someone explain 
_and _ 
give me an example 
of what a _microaggression _actually is


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

mrs phas said:


> Obviously im being incredibly thick
> But
> Could someone explain
> _and _
> ...



Your not thick, I have know idea what it means either.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

microaggression
/ˈmʌɪkrəʊəˌɡrɛʃ(ə)n/

_noun_
noun: *microaggression*; plural noun: *microaggressions*; noun: *micro-aggression*; plural noun: *micro-aggressions*

a statement, action, or incident regarded as an instance of indirect, subtle, or unintentional discrimination against members of a marginalized group such as a racial or ethnic minority.
"the students made signs detailing microaggressions they had heard or experienced"
indirect, subtle, or unintentional discrimination against members of a marginalized group.
"they are not subject to daily acts of microaggression"

Origin


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

This is a really interesting article on microaggressions and where the concept comes from if anyone is interested. 








Where microaggressions really come from: A sociological account


I just read the most extraordinary paper by two sociologists — Bradley Campbell and Jason Manning — explaining why concerns about microaggressions have erupted on many American college campuses in …



righteousmind.com





What I find interesting is that claiming microaggressions, even recognizing them, is in itself a form of privilege. 
"But note that these campaigns for support do not necessarily emanate from the lowest reaches of society – that they are not primarily stocked or led by those who are completely lacking in property, respectability, education, or other forms of social status. *Rather, such forms as microaggression complaints and protest demonstrations appear to flourish among the relatively educated and affluent populations of American colleges and universities*. The socially down and out are so inferior to third parties that they are unlikely to campaign for their support, just as they are unlikely to receive it."

Which is probably why the concept rubs me and my colleagues the wrong way. We are in a very poor part of the world where people don't have the extra physical and emotional energy to worry about whether someone mispronouncing your ethnic name is committing a microaggression or just suffering from a clumsy tongue. Nor do they care.
So white saviors come along to make sure they do care and even if they don't they will make sure to take offense on their behalf.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm so out of step with these isms that I daren't open my mouth.............

My life just doesn't revolve around other peoples colour, sex orientation or gender...........just get on with it and leave me alone


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Microaggressions - what you should know


This short online course is recommended for all Faculty of Engineering staff and students. It provides an introductory and basic overview of




www.imperial.ac.uk


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Interesting


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Maybe it's just me, but every time I see a photo of these two taken in profile. they both appear to have a nose like Pinocchio, getting longer every day, which I think may be significant!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone going to watch it.
> 
> I don't have Netflix but even if I had I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of watching it.
> 
> ...


I have Covid and I'm not that bored or ill yet.

I have no opinion on them but those who want to watch it will, those who aren't interested won't. Thing is, families have this stuff going on _all_ the time, we just don't have access to a film crew to deliver the messages and bore the pants off everyone. Though clearly there's some inclusion and diversity training that needs to happen at Buckingham Palace.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

O2.0 said:


> We are in a very poor part of the world where people don't have the extra physical and emotional energy to worry about whether someone mispronouncing your ethnic name is committing a microaggression or just suffering from a clumsy tongue.


My specialist has a name that has been totally unpronounceable to me, despite being a common name in sri lanka
and, over the last 12 weeks, I have become increasingly embarrassed that I couldn't get my tongue around it 
I would be mortified if he thought I was being rude or exhibiting micro aggression, because I was too stupid to be able to pronounce it 
Thankfully one of his nurses, a poc herself, who could see how upset and annoyed I was, with myself, instead of being insulted and huffy, because I couldn't pronounce his name, sat with me for a total of 5 minutes and broke it down for me, that's all it took, but was invaluable to me
Now it literally trips off my tongue and I feel more confident in talking with him 
Perhaps if more people used such problems as a moment of education, or, a teaching moment, as this nurse did, then such a thing as microaggression wouldn't exist


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I wonder if Harrys has ever thought about how Charles was brought up and how difficult it was for him. ? His mother became Queen when he was very young and she had to leave him behind while she travelled the world , he was sent to a tough boarding school where they had cold showers even in winter and he was bullied. The press hacked his phone and published what he said .


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> I wonder if Harrys has ever thought about how Charles was brought up and how difficult it was for him. ? His mother became Queen when he was very young and she had to leave him behind while she travelled the world , he was sent to a tough boarding school where they had cold showers even in winter and he was bullied. The press hacked his phone and published what he said .


I get the impression that he has … and wants to break the mould.

Certainly, seems like he wants a different upbringing for his children.

It’s time the “institution” moved on.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

mrs phas said:


> I would be mortified if he thought I was being rude or exhibiting micro aggression, because I was too stupid to be able to pronounce it





rona said:


> I'm so out of step with these isms that I daren't open my mouth.............


You're not alone. I think a lot of people have just given up saying anything, voicing any opinion, or commenting simply because it seems like such a tightrope walk.
But I do think things are leveling out and people are starting to realize that policing every little utterance is not helpful either. Intent matters.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

I’m shocked by some of the messages on here. Like it or not racism very much still exists in the UK & USA. Google some statistics and you will see the reality of inequality from health care to policing. 

Is it that difficult to put a little thought into what you are saying and doing ? Of course we shouldn’t be touching peoples hair or challenging them on where they are from.

I follow a great instagram account Everyday racism that explains and discusses micro aggressions and more. It is run by two amazing sisters who work in schools to try and reduce racism. If anyone is interested they have a book out which is worth a read.

The -mixed-race-experience-by-evans-natalie-and-naomi

I’m not scared of opening my mouth and in my experience @mrs phas do ask questions people don’t mind at all. But sometimes we do have to challenge our own unconscious bias and experiences. 

What happened at the palace was inappropriate.

Old people are not stupid if your going to do a public facing job (I include Prince Philip in this) you should know how to talk to people !









Royal race row: The full exchange between Palace guest and Lady Susan Hussey


Ngozi Fulani, chief executive of Sistah Space, described the encounter as a “violation” and said the experience will “never leave me”




www.standard.co.uk






Again I’m not a H&M fan but is it really that hard to consider that Meghan did experience racism when you look at the Institution of the Royal family and it’s history







Buckingham Palace banned ethnic minorities from office roles, papers reveal | Monarchy | The Guardian


Exclusive: Documents also shed light on Queen’s ongoing exemption from race and sex discrimination laws<br>




amp.theguardian.com





I watched the first episode yesterday and actually didn’t want to throw my shoe at the TV. Harry was talking about press intrusion and his mum. Honestly it seems like an awful way to live. I know people want them to shut up but isn’t it time for change ?

Everyone gets so cross about this yet when the crown paid off a sex trafficking victim last year because a Prince was friends with a known offender no one bats an eye lid.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

The press headlines this morning in reaction to the first 3 episodes are, as usual, “sensational” 🙄

By contrast a lady who previously worked for King Charles had watched in advance and didn’t seem overly concerned that it would cause a lot of trouble within the family …


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## tristy (5 mo ago)

I think that it depends which part of the UK you live . In my view, Megan was welcomed here with open arms, we thought that it was lovely that Harry had chosen someone from another country, the fact that she was a TV star didn't impress me much but she seemed like a lovely girl and then once she was married, had her baby , she turned around and called us all racist and left. It was a bit of a shock for those of us who respects the royal family. I wonder what King Charles will say in his first Christmas speech .


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Interesting interview by Niall Paterson of Sky News.









The Sky News Daily podcast with Niall Paterson


On the Sky News Daily podcast, we slow the pace, open the discussion and put people at the heart of our storytelling, while taking you on a journey beyond the headline.




news.sky.com


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> The press headlines this morning in reaction to the first 3 episodes are, as usual, “sensational” 🙄
> 
> By contrast a lady who previously worked for King Charles had watched in advance and didn’t seem overly concerned that it would cause a lot of trouble within the family …


Not seen the headlines yet - but I didn't see anything ''explosive'' about yesterday's episodes, not even sure I'll watch the next lot. I can't see why it will cause upset within the RF, unless the next offerings are worse (or better?). I doubt the Queen would have batted an eyelid - think she was made of much stouter stuff.
I found them annoying to listen to, in that they both punctuate every sentence with ''like''. ''And I was ,_like_, really amazed and Haz was, _like_, well, he was ''_like_'' really amazed, too''. David Beckham used to do it all the time - it adds nothing to the meaning of the sentence, just irritating. Also the fact that they seem to blame someone else for all their perceived problems . . . she doesn't speak to her father (despite the fact that the pair of them are spreading kindness and tolerance everywhere else in the world), but it's not her fault, naturally not, it's something the press did. And I don't believe that she didn't know who Harry was; of course she did.
The one obvious positive about the two of them is that they seem to genuinely love their dogs - I believe also that H gave up hunting because she disapproved.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Everyone gets so cross about this yet when the crown paid off a sex trafficking victim last year because a Prince was friends with a known offender no one bats an eye lid.


I remember plenty of batted eyes about that! Particularly on here. Still not enough outrage though, I agree. 



*_*

A few weeks ago one of my teenagers got a haircut. She was excited about it before hand and when she came in with her new do she showed me and I touched her hair and told her it looked great and that she is beautiful. She's black. She also hugs me every day and I hug her back. 
Context matters. Intent matters. Most importantly, relationships matter. And you can't build a relationship if you're afraid of offending. 

I, for one am tired of the financially privileged, educational elite telling me what I should and should not find offensive. My black colleagues are too. 
I find it offensive that black women in the US die in childbirth in far greater numbers than any other population. They're more likely to die of breast cancer, cervical cancer and have unintended pregnancies. 
I find it offensive that Latina women have even worse health outcomes, and have the highest pay gap of any demographic even when you adjust for education level and experience. 

I did watch the first installment last night. To be fair I was doing other stuff at the same time, only half listening, but none of it was earth shattering or even that interesting frankly. 
The was one comment that kind of stood out to me though, Meghan said "no one talks about what it's like to be mixed-race." Huh? Where on earth have you been Meghan? That is a huge conversation and it's everywhere. I'm not _that_ much older than her but this is a conversation I've heard since I was a teenager. And hello, Barack Obama? You know, former two-term President? Mixed race, much conversation about that.
That comment felt weirdly out of touch. 

I guess that's the main thing I got from the series so far. These people are out of touch. Or maybe they're very in-touch in their own circles, but for someone like me in a po-dunk town in the middle of nowhere rural America, it seems very out of touch. Just like the same elites telling me that I should be offended when a white colleague asks me where I'm from or if I'm an American citizen. 

That's my take for what it's worth - probably not much!


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## DanWalkersmum (Mar 21, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> Oh dear god the forum bleeping out a common Latin expression has pissed me off more than makes sense to me!
> Gr.ingo is NOT an offensive term unless used that way. Lord help us that we have come to everyday language being censored just in case someone somewhere might be offended.


Catching up on this thread - thanks for clarifying the missing wordI was scratching my head wondering what/whom you had married 😆


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Just to put the 'where are you from' question in some context; I'm white British, and I get asked all the time where I'm from because I no longer live in the same county I was born and raised so my accent isn't local. 

Do I take offence? No. People move around, not many stay in one place anymore, so the question 'where are you from' is becoming part of normal everyday conversation, especially upon first meetings.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Deguslave said:


> Just to put the 'where are you from' question in some context; I'm white British, and I get asked all the time where I'm from because I no longer live in the same county I was born and raised so my accent isn't local.
> 
> Do I take offence? No. People move around, not many stay in one place anymore, so the question 'where are you from' is becoming part of normal everyday conversation, especially upon first meetings.


It's a question I'm frequently being asked. Nothing untoward or intrusive as far as I'm concerned as I'm obviously not Hungarian. I usually say that I'm English, from Nottingham and where I now live in Hungary. What normally follows is asking me how long I've lived in Hungary, why I chose to live here and if I like living here.

Quite different from an experience I had when living in a French overseas department. 

In brief, one morning I was ordered (not asked) to immediately go to the police station. When I got there I was ushered into the office of a senior officer and for the next ten minutes or so was subjected to a triade about how he was not prepared to tolerate racism from any South African on the island. 

When he'd finished his rant he asked to see my passport and was stunned to find I was British and not South African as he'd thought. I was then questioned about how it was possible that someone with a British passport could live in South Africa. I was then allowed to go without I might add any apology for his mistake.

The good thing was that after upsetting several people on the island including the President he got sent back to mainland France.


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## tristy (5 mo ago)

Deguslave said:


> Just to put the 'where are you from' question in some context; I'm white British, and I get asked all the time where I'm from because I no longer live in the same county I was born and raised so my accent isn't local.
> 
> Do I take offence? No. People move around, not many stay in one place anymore, so the question 'where are you from' is becoming part of normal everyday conversation, especially upon first meetings.


😅 I get the same thing and my mother who lived in England but had a strong welsh accent was often called Taffy, no offence taken. It was a normal friendly thing to call people Taffy, Jock,Paddy etc., but now you have to be so careful . I have even seen the police called and a neighbour given a warning for saying the wrong thing, whereas years ago you would tell them that they have offended you so they could appologise


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## tristy (5 mo ago)

Lurcherlad said:


> I get the impression that he has … and wants to break the mould.
> 
> Certainly, seems like he wants a different upbringing for his children.
> 
> It’s time the “institution” moved on.


I think that we all want better and different things for our children, but that doesn't mean loosing respect for the generation left behind. The royals are changing and Charles is seeing to that , but they still have to keep the tradition and all the pomp and ceremony as that's what brings the tourists in with all their cash for the coffers.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I’ve thought about saying this for some time as I’m sure some will think it’s racist, but it isn’t.
When I first came to the village over 30 years ago I heard that a young black man living there was referred to as black Ian, I was shocked, but then it was explained to me.
He was fostered by a white couple in the village when a baby and brought up with their children. He had a lot of friends in the village and it just happened there was a number of Ian’s amongst his mates, so he was known as black Ian in order to differentiate him from the other Ian’s in the same way as another one might be called lanky Ian or ginger Ian. He knew he was called this.
Over time the nickname was dropped as people felt he would be offended by this. Although he doesn’t live in the village now, he is very good at drystone walling and repairs involving old cottages made out of local stone, consequently he’s often seen round the village and fairly well known. 
Friends up the road needed some work done on their cottage and Ian came to do the work. Several times he would phone them up and announced who he was saying ‘Hi, black Ian here’. It wasn’t necessary for him to say this as they knew his surname, he chose to.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Siskin said:


> I’ve thought about saying this for some time as I’m sure some will think it’s racist, but it isn’t.
> When I first came to the village over 30 years ago I heard that a young black man living there was referred to as black Ian, I was shocked, but then it was explained to me.
> He was fostered by a white couple in the village when a baby and brought up with their children. He had a lot of friends in the village and it just happened there was a number of Ian’s amongst his mates, so he was known as black Ian in order to differentiate him from the other Ian’s in the same way as another one might be called lanky Ian or ginger Ian. He knew he was called this.
> *Over time the nickname was dropped as people felt he would be offended by this.* Although he doesn’t live in the village now, he is very good at drystone walling and repairs involving old cottages made out of local stone, consequently he’s often seen round the village and fairly well known.
> Friends up the road needed some work done on their cottage and Ian came to do the work. Several times he would phone them up and announced who he was saying ‘Hi, black Ian here’. It wasn’t necessary for him to say this as they knew his surname, he chose to.


But isn't that just another example of people getting offended on someone else's behalf when the person it refers to, isn't offended?

I get loads of people getting on their high horse about people making references to my disabilities, hey guess what, I'm disabled! 

A friend of mine always called me gimpy; it was her nickname for me We had a policy where we wouldn't say anything behind each others backs we wouldn't say to their face, and I wasn't offended by it, but the number of people who took offense on my behalf! On at least on occasion, if I hadn't stepped in and explained we were friends, she would have been physically attacked!


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

I was accused of being racist once by a colleague as I was no making eye contact with her when helping her care for a patient.
When I told her I find eye contact very difficult and have done all my life she rolled her eyes and gave me the silent treatment. It really upset me.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Deguslave said:


> But isn't that just another example of people getting offended on someone else's behalf when the person it refers to, isn't offended?
> 
> I get loads of people getting on their high horse about people making references to my disabilities, hey guess what, I'm disabled!
> 
> A friend of mine always called me gimpy; it was her nickname for me We had a policy where we wouldn't say anything behind each others backs we wouldn't say to their face, and I wasn't offended by it, but the number of people who took offense on my behalf! On at least on occasion, if I hadn't stepped in and explained we were friends, she would have been physically attacked!


I agree with you. It’s a name I wouldn’t have used to him directly because I wouldn’t feel comfortable and also it was a nickname amongst his mates, but perhaps would talking to someone else in order to differentiate between him and the other Ian in the village who is also a builder and drystone waller. In the same way as I wouldn’t greet the ginger Ian with ‘Hi ginger Ian’.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

The way things are going, we'll be frightened to open our mouth just in case something is said that might offend someone.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Happy Paws2 said:


> The way things are going, we'll be frightened to open our mouth just in case something is said that might offend someone.


And if we stay silent we'll be accused of being standoffish or insolent. We can't win.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

tristy said:


> I think that we all want better and different things for our children, but that doesn't mean loosing respect for the generation left behind. The royals are changing and Charles is seeing to that , but they still have to keep the tradition and all the pomp and ceremony as that's what brings the tourists in with all their cash for the coffers.


Pomp and ceremony is one thing … bigotry and racism have no place in modern society right now.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Anyway, back to Haz and wife. It"s good to see his book is clearly destined to be a chart topper. Flying off the shelves in WH Smith as you can see. He will have had an advance on it I imagine.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

The Half Price Prince



Sorry


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I find it odd, in keeping with @Boxer123 post, that the comments here feel a bit defensive. How about be curious? Maybe ask if we are not sure so we learn and pass it on. Be positive about it and say if I use this term, is that correct? The isms that I’ve been personally offended by come from assumption and defensiveness, but if someone has asked if it was okay, we can create a conversation from being curious.

Regardless of what I think about the documentary, no victim of any ism should have to educate but it feels like it. Goodness knows there are plenty of resources out there with which to inform ourselves.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> Pomp and ceremony is one thing … bigotry and racism have no place in modern society right now.


Absolutely, and any decent person would be in agreement. It just seems like this sort of soundbite is often used (not here necessarily but in general) to chastise anyone who approaches the topic with a bit of nuance and/or has maybe a slightly different view of the whole H&M circus.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I wonder if his mother being hounded by the media to her death (as was inferred at the time and since) is a fear for him? Maybe he sees that playing out with his family though I’m not sure why he’s then telling over showing. As if trying to force his family and the press to agree.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

@Siskin your Black Ian story made me chuckle. Over the years I've had several kids with the same name and I imagine plenty of people would be offended at how they differentiate themselves.

Context really does matter.
And to be fair, there are contexts in which being asked "Where are you from" can be not only offensive, but intimidating, and intended to be intimidating. It can absolutely be coming from a racist place too. I hope no one thinks I'm dismissing actual racism when I say that context matters with so called microaggressions.


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

MollySmith said:


> I wonder if his mother being hounded by the media to her death (as was inferred at the time and since) is a fear for him? Maybe he sees that playing out with his family though I’m not sure why he’s then telling over showing. As if trying to force his family and the press to agree.


You would have thought that he'd want to keep his head down and have a quiet life with the ones he loves to get away from the media. But he's doing the opposite by making this documentary, the media are loving it.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

My mind is boggling with this thread. @O2.0 of course context matters you know the girl you mentioned and have a relationship with her you behave differently than you do with a stranger stranger? 


Did you read the transcript of the incident at the palace do you think that is acceptable? Asking someone where they are from is fine, in my opinion the response to the answer was not. 

The reason I recommended the book above is that the authors are not the over privileged telling us what to be offended by. They are intelligent women who have lived experience and explain so much better than me the theories behind micro aggressions. 

Having now watched the episodes H & M don’t go after the family but the media. Also some of the stuff written about Meghan that they show is not a micro aggression it is explicitly racist. Actually this is an important topic.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> My mind is boggling with this thread. @O2.0 of course context matters you know the girl you mentioned and have a relationship with her you behave differently than you do with a stranger stranger?
> 
> 
> Did you read the transcript of the incident at the palace do you think that is acceptable? Asking someone where they are from is fine, in my opinion the response to the answer was not.
> ...


Were you aware that a number of the headlines and pictures shown were not from the British press but the American press and in some cases nothing to do with H&M


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Siskin said:


> Were you aware that a number of the headlines and pictures shown were not from the British press but the American press and in some cases nothing to do with H&M


Nope I’m definitely referring to the British press examples Daily mail also the stuff that was written on social media that was shown was explicitly racist.

Regardless of who wrote what it must have been horrible to read. I have pointed out numerous times I’m not a H&M fan but no one deserves that. 

We cannot deny that she experienced racist abuse despite all the other controversy surrounding the couple.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Beth78 said:


> doing the opposite by making this documentary,


 Apparently Meghan's half-sister calls it a 'flopumentary''.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I’m not denying that she had racist abuse, I presume then the social media posts were verified as all being British. I just wonder how much abuse There was, that isn’t clear


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Siskin said:


> I’m not denying that she had racist abuse, I presume then the social media posts were verified as all being British. I just wonder how much abuse There was, that isn’t clear


Have you watched the show? Essentially Harry was saying she was getting the abuse because of his role in the royal family. The press intrusion was because of that link. So they left the family because he wanted to keep his family safe. It doesn’t matter who wrote what the abuse was constant hence leaving the family. 

The attack was actually on the way the institution excepts this intrusion. As @Lurcherlad said some things need to change.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Just to add I get a general sense and could be wrong that Americans love these two maybe @O2.0 can clarify so I think it was mostly British sources.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> Just to add I get a general sense and could be wrong that Americans love these two maybe @O2.0 can clarify so I think it was mostly British sources.


I don’t think Americans are quite so enamoured as they were.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Siskin said:


> I don’t think Americans are quite so enamoured as they were.


Neither am I and I realise I’m coming accross like the number 1 fan  I only watched it because of this thread.

We can agree she experienced racism so why can’t she talk about it is my view.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Is she being prevented from talking about racism now or are you just referring to her short time as part of the RF? It’s so difficult to understand and know exactly what has truly happened as we are only hearing one side of the matter and their interpretaction. Was it deliberate out and out racism, micro aggressions or total misunderstandings on both sides, we don’t really know for sure and this is what I find so disturbing. It’s very easy for someone to declare something in the knowledge that the person or persons they are talking about won’t retaliate. The aides at the palace, even those that have left, are constrained by confidentially agreements and are unable to voice their views and it well know that the RF don’t as a rule put their sides across, never explain, never complain. It’s awful that it has come to this. I’ve come to the conclusion that Harry needs a lot of professional help as he seems to be seeing Meghan as his mother


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

Siskin said:


> Is she being prevented from talking about racism now or are you just referring to her short time as part of the RF? It’s so difficult to understand and know exactly what has truly happened as we are only hearing one side of the matter and their interpretaction. Was it deliberate out and out racism, micro aggressions or total misunderstandings on both sides, we don’t really know for sure and this is what I find so disturbing. It’s very easy for someone to declare something in the knowledge that the person or persons they are talking about won’t retaliate. The aides at the palace, even those that have left, are constrained by confidentially agreements and are unable to voice their views and it well know that the RF don’t as a rule put their sides across, never explain, never complain. It’s awful that it has come to this. I’ve come to the conclusion that Harry needs a lot of professional help as he seems to be seeing Meghan as his mother


The newspaper headlines they focused on in the documentary were definitely racist.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Siskin said:


> Is she being prevented from talking about racism now or are you just referring to her short time as part of the RF? It’s so difficult to understand and know exactly what has truly happened as we are only hearing one side of the matter and their interpretaction. Was it deliberate out and out racism, micro aggressions or total misunderstandings on both sides, we don’t really know for sure and this is what I find so disturbing. It’s very easy for someone to declare something in the knowledge that the person or persons they are talking about won’t retaliate. The aides at the palace, even those that have left, are constrained by confidentially agreements and are unable to voice their views and it well know that the RF don’t as a rule put their sides across, never explain, never complain. It’s awful that it has come to this. I’ve come to the conclusion that Harry needs a lot of professional help as he seems to be seeing Meghan as his mother


We will never know because of the palaces own stupid rules of not speaking out. So far they haven’t discussed that on the show just the media stuff. I am sure it will come up though. I agree I think he is very traumatised by what happened with his mum.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

DanWalkersmum said:


> Catching up on this thread - thanks for clarifying the missing wordI was scratching my head wondering what/whom you had married 😆


This too made me laugh. In fact I'm also still laughing to myself that grin.go is a bleeped out word, not annoyed anymore, just amused. That does indeed show ignorance to me. Ah well...



Boxer123 said:


> Did you read the transcript of the incident at the palace do you think that is acceptable? Asking someone where they are from is fine, in my opinion the response to the answer was not.


I read enough and yes, I did feel like the exchange was way more aggressive than it needed to be. But I also think equating touching someone's hair to abuse is also more exaggerated than it needs to be. 

Really, I can only speak for myself and in the many, many instances I've been asked where I'm from or if I'm a child's nanny, or if I'm a legal citizen, or if I came here legally, or all the different things I've been asked about my background, there has always been multiple different ways I could take it. Do I think some of the instances were fueled by racism and or xenophobia? Oh yes. But that's just my opinion and at the end of the day it doesn't affect my life unless I let it. Which I don't. 




MollySmith said:


> no victim of any ism should have to educate but it feels like it.


Again, I can only speak for myself, but I don't mind educating at all. I really don't. I like people, I like talking to people, and I like learning new stuff and teaching someone something they didn't know before. If it weren't for the conversations I've had over the years, I wouldn't have known that my story is even interesting. And that has helped me see myself less as a misfit who doesn't fit in any category and more of person with an interesting story. So no, I'm not a victim, and I'm happy to educate anyone who asks. Sometimes even if they don't ask


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> This too made me laugh. In fact I'm also still laughing to myself that grin.go is a bleeped out word, not annoyed anymore, just amused. That does indeed show ignorance to me. Ah well...
> 
> 
> I read enough and yes, I did feel like the exchange was way more aggressive than it needed to be. But I also think equating touching someone's hair to abuse is also more exaggerated than it needs to be.
> ...


Well we will have to agree to disagree I’m off this thread not to go and watch Suits


----------



## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Boxer123 said:


> Did you read the transcript of the incident at the palace do you think that is acceptable? Asking someone where they are from is fine, in my opinion the response to the answer was not.


I agree. It is easy as a white person to say ‘well people ask me where I am from’ or ‘well she was wearing ethnic clothes’ etc. but, I saw a clip Dr Amir Khan talking about this. About how growing up in England none of his teachers looked like him, nobody else in his class looked like him etc. and so even as an adult when people ask where he is from after he has already replied cuts straight to the feeling of not belonging. 
I admit that I am probably unintentionally guilty of some micro aggressions but I do not intend to offend people. But some of the vile directed towards Meghan is outright racism. 
that said, I am not sure it is entirely the motivation of the press - they need a ‘villain’ to counterbalance their fawning over Catherine and Meghan fits the narrative (as does Harry, filling the Princess Margaret jealous ‘spare’ role). 
As for the Harry and Meghan show - I have not watched it and don’t intend to. I feel sorry for them with the vitriol from the press and I am sure it must seem like history repeating itself to Harry. That said, for a couple who claim to want to keep their lives private they do seem determined to stay in the spotlight and then throw their toys out of the pram when it is not all on their terms.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Dimwit said:


> I agree. It is easy as a white person to say ‘well people ask me where I am from’ or ‘well she was wearing ethnic clothes’ etc. but, I saw a clip Dr Amir Khan talking about this. About how growing up in England none of his teachers looked like him, nobody else in his class looked like him etc. and so even as an adult when people ask where he is from after he has already replied cuts straight to the feeling of not belonging.
> I admit that I am probably unintentionally guilty of some micro aggressions but I do not intend to offend people. But some of the vile directed towards Meghan is outright racism.
> that said, I am not sure it is entirely the motivation of the press - they need a ‘villain’ to counterbalance their fawning over Catherine and Meghan fits the narrative (as does Harry, filling the Princess Margaret jealous ‘spare’ role).
> As for the Harry and Meghan show - I have not watched it and don’t intend to. I feel sorry for them with the vitriol from the press and I am sure it must seem like history repeating itself to Harry. That said, for a couple who claim to want to keep their lives private they do seem determined to stay in the spotlight and then throw their toys out of the pram when it is not all on their terms.


You have said it so much better than me.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I think it’s all a horrible muddle, and I can’t see how to negotiate it all.

If I’m even aware that the person I’m speaking to is different to me, does that automatically make me racist, sexist, homophonic, whatever?

How do I then deal with people who, quite rightly, are proud of their differences, sexuality, ethnicity or origins. If I dont take this on board and purposely block it out, is that offensive?


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> We will never know because of the palaces own stupid rules of not speaking out.



The Royal Family abide by this rule for very good reason.

Can you imagine if, over the years, they had responded to every piece of negative press written about them? They will not get involved in a 'slanging match' with the likes of the Daily Mail, or even a close member of their family, who has chosen to appear on Chat Shows, making various accusations.

I believe that is to their credit.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I hate the feeling when you go into a shop and people are speaking in their own language and you worry they are talking you. 🙄 Silly really.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> Well we will have to agree to disagree I’m off this thread not to go and watch Suits


Nothing that I've posted is to agree or disagree with, I'm just sharing my own experiences. I'm not black but I am part of a minority group whether I look like it or not. And FWIW, most people wouldn't know Meghan is black unless told. So.... 



Boxer123 said:


> We can agree she experienced racism so why can’t she talk about it is my view.


She can and she is talking about it. 



Boxer123 said:


> Just to add I get a general sense and could be wrong that Americans love these two maybe @O2.0 can clarify so I think it was mostly British sources.


Honestly I really wouldn't know. I'm not very au fait with the current trends. My social media is mostly dogs and horses. No one I know in person has mentioned it, though several of us have been talking about Firefly Lane on Netflix - and I'm off to read the book because apparently the series diverges from the book a lot!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Boxer123 said:


> Well we will have to agree to disagree I’m off this thread not to go and watch Suits


 I loved that programme.


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

I have watched the first two episodes of there documentary and tbh it’s proved an interest insight seeing things from there point of view.

It must have been difficult for Meghan to join the Royal Family under the glare of the media (particularly the British media) and I can certainly see why Harry would have looked at what was happening with her and seen similarities with his mother just with added emphasis around her race. 

It’s a shame it had to end the way it did for Harry and his role within the Royal family but I can also see why he would feel he was left with no choice.

Hopefully now they have had their say and Harry has written his book they can start to move on and use there names and fame and go back to continuing their charity work.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Beth78 said:


> I was accused of being racist once by a colleague as I was no making eye contact with her when helping her care for a patient.
> When I told her I find eye contact very difficult and have done all my life she rolled her eyes and gave me the silent treatment. It really upset me.


 Back in the day , when I was 13( I was still riding imaginary ponies round the woods ) I was asked out by a black teenager at my church , I said No and he said Is it because I'm black . Well it wasn't . It was because I was very shy and naive .I wasn't allowed to date . I felt really embarrassed and mortified.

I don't know what its like to be black but I do know whats it's like to be in a minority where you get abuse though it's very easy to have that mind set where you think Is it cause Im ...... .

However , There is an ableist superiority and if you are disabled , it's not fun being patronised and made to feel inferior.

ETA Sorry for going OT but if you know any deaf , Deaf or HOH , *please *dont do the thumbs up sign , just wave when you see them like you do to anyone else.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I really think they should loss their titles of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, He can never loss the title of Prince as he is of royal blood but he doesn't do anything to earn any other title.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Happy Paws2 said:


> I really think they should loss their titles of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, He can never loss the title of Prince as he is of royal blood but he doesn't do anything to earn any other title.


But then, I believe, Meghan will become Princess which, I assume, some people won’t like either 🙄


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> But then, I believe, Meghan will become Princess which, I assume, some people won’t like either 🙄


True. I think if anything is taken away from them then it can be used as ammunition against the RH.
Not many people mentioned it but not everyone in the UK likes Americans so that could be a reason for the hostility.  ( Apologies to our American friends )


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> But then, I believe, Meghan will become Princess which, I assume, some people won’t like either 🙄


I'm not sure, I think the title still has to bestowed and It does mean she get it.


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> I really think they should loss their titles of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, He can never loss the title of Prince as he is of royal blood but he doesn't do anything to earn any other title.


I know this thread is about Harry and Meghan, but if anyone should be losing royal titles it’s Prince Andrew!


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Linda Weasel said:


> people who, quite rightly, are proud of their differences


I worked with a guy who thought the whole BAME, POC, black or coloured debate was way over the top. He always described himself as 'a *****', and was not at all ashamed to say it.
Now, guess what, the word has been deleted. It begins with n and ends with o and if a black guy does not find it offensive, and uses it to describe himself, then it really isn't. Almost as silly as @O2.0's g-word. I believe the g-word is slang, but n***o isnt.


----------



## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

kimthecat said:


> I hate the feeling when you go into a shop and people are speaking in their own language and you worry they are talking you. 🙄 Silly really.


I get that a lot at work and it isn't a nice feeling.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> I hate the feeling when you go into a shop and people are speaking in their own language and you worry they are talking you. 🙄 Silly really.


Happens to me all the time. S'what happens when you live in a non English speaking country. The only one's who understand what I'm saying are the dogs!


----------



## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

Magyarmum said:


> Happens to me all the time. S'what happens when you live in a non English speaking country. The only one's who understand what I'm saying are the dogs!
> 
> View attachment 580755


Does that make you feel isolated ?


----------



## tristy (5 mo ago)

Lurcherlad said:


> But then, I believe, Meghan will become Princess which, I assume, some people won’t like either 🙄


Megan became a princess on marrying Harry, but as she is not of royal blood , apparently she cannot use it. Their children are now prince and princess , which came about when the Queen died, as the titles are bestowed on the children and grandchildren of the sovereign, which is why they didn't have those titles before, nothing to do with colour


----------



## Annealise (Nov 29, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> I wonder if Harrys has ever thought about how Charles was brought up and how difficult it was for him. ? His mother became Queen when he was very young and she had to leave him behind while she travelled the world , he was sent to a tough boarding school where they had cold showers even in winter and he was bullied. The press hacked his phone and published what he said .


I doubt it, as it appears everything from day one has been about 'Me Me Me' from the both of them.


----------



## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I haven't watched it, but from what's been reported, the statement that probably riled me the most is when he said royals don't marry for love. I know I could be wrong but from everything I've read, Philip was the love of Elizabeths life and she basically wasted away after he died.

Queen Victoria also mourned the loss of Albert very deeply, and mourned him for the rest of her life. 

What are these examples if not love?


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Deguslave said:


> the statement that probably riled me the most is when he said royals don't marry for love.


No, that made perfect sense to me. His father married the woman who was more appropriate for the role not the love of his life. 

Of course it's also possible to fall in love with someone who is both very appropriate for the role and also the person you love dearly. 
Totally speculating here, but I think that's part of why William and Kate waited so very long - much of that time was spent both preparing Kate and also giving her the space to opt out of the craziness if it proved to be too much. Poor Meghan, by the time she realized this was too much for her and she wanted out, she was already fully in and that put all of them - her, her husband, and her husband's family in a very awkward position.

And that's no criticism of any of them BTW. I couldn't live like that, I doubt many people could. So I wholly admire someone with the discipline and selflessness to live like that even while knowing it's not for me.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Looking at all the publicity they are getting with this TV series and his book makes me wonder Why.

He said he had moved to the States for a quiet life away from the press and to live a normal life with his wife and family as possible.

Well he's are going the wrong way about that.

He was my favourite royal at one time, now well I can't stand him, why would he want to wash his dirty linen in public and try to ruin everyone's lives his acting like a spoilt child and as for her the less said about her the better.


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Deguslave said:


> I haven't watched it, but from what's been reported, the statement that probably riled me the most is when he said royals don't marry for love. I know I could be wrong but from everything I've read, Philip was the love of Elizabeths life and she basically wasted away after he died.
> 
> Queen Victoria also mourned the loss of Albert very deeply, and mourned him for the rest of her life.
> 
> What are these examples if not love?


The quote I’ve read is that he said men in the royal family have a temptation or urge to marry someone who fits the mould and not for love. Maybe it was a case of choosing his words carefully - but I feel that’s different from saying they don’t marry for love. You could take it to simply mean that he never had that temptation and didn’t have to choose. It doesn’t have to mean that he was having a dig at every other male member of his family. Tho if he was I’d imagine he is talking about his father.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Looking at all the publicity they are getting with this TV series and his book makes me wonder Why.
> 
> He said he had moved to the States for a quiet life away from the press and to live a normal life with his wife and family as possible.
> 
> ...


They need the money to support their lifestyle. 

I think I'm correct in saying when they first made the decision to move to the US, Harry thought that Daddy, Granny and the British taxpayer would still provide them with an income. and provide protection. 

None of this happened and one could say they've been cut off without the proverbial penny and like the rest of us now have to work for a living. 









Prince Harry’s Net Worth Reveals How Much He & Meghan Made For Their Netflix Doc—It’s in the 9 Figures


Plus, how much he inherited from Princess Diana and Queen Elizabeth.




stylecaster.com


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Magyarmum said:


> They need the money to support their lifestyle.



Diana left Harry £10 million and Meghan and Harry are reportedly worth a combined $60 million in 2022.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I also understand that the queen mother left something for Harry, as he was the one who would ‘miss out’. I should imagine the queen would have also left something for them


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Siskin said:


> I also understand that the queen mother left something for Harry, as he was the one who would ‘miss out’. I should imagine the queen would have also left something for them


She left him £10 million as well.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

*From Express website: 

Would Meghan become Princess Henry?*
According to a constitutional expert, it is highly unlikely that the Sussexes will lose their HRH styles and Duke and Duchess titles because there are very few historical precedents for it.

The most likely way Harry would lose his Duke of Sussex title would be to renounce it himself by petitioning the Queen, constitutional expert Iain MacMarthanne claimed.

While Meghan would technically become "Meghan, Princess Henry of Wales" if this happened she would not be known as "Princess Meghan."


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Looking at all the publicity they are getting with this TV series and his book makes me wonder Why.
> 
> He said he had moved to the States for a quiet life away from the press and to live a normal life with his wife and family as possible.
> 
> ...


He was pretty much everyone's favourite royal, maybe apart from the Queen, and people were delighted for him when he met and married his wife. She appears to be the dominant one in the relationship.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Diana left Harry £10 million and Meghan and Harry are reportedly worth a combined $60 million in 2022.


It's all relative to what you've been used to. £60 million to you and me would seem a fortune, but it wouldn't last long if you had a large house to maintain plus the cost of staff nanny, housekeeper, secretaries, gardeners etc to go with it. 

Then there are the cost of her clothes. Apparently her outfits for the Invictus Games cost a staggering £38 thousand. Plus incidentals like jetting all over the place, eating out in expensive restaurants, holidays etc etc etc, 









Meghan Markle spent a staggering £38,000 on her clothes for a charity trip


The Duchess of Sussex squeezed in seven trendy looks whilst gracing the Invictus Games




www.geo.tv













Harry and Meghan's Netflix documentary adds to burgeoning media empire


The couple took a financial hit upon leaving royal family, but their net worth has rebounded with several media mega-deals.




www.cbsnews.com


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Beth78 said:


> Does that make you feel isolated ?


Not particularly! I've always been a loner. and so long as I have my "boys" I'm perfectly happy.

After spending most of my life living and working in countries where English is the second language, you compensate for not understanding a spoken language, by becoming very aware of body language. Amazing what you can learn by just observing people.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)




----------



## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Deguslave said:


> from everything I've read, Philip was the love of Elizabeths life and she basically wasted away after he died.


But was she his?
From the amount of affairs he is said to have had 
I think not 
He refused to become ' the prince consort ', as Albert had been 
And, so,
The queen invented the title 
The Duke of Edinburgh specifically for him 
( Not taken from the crown, I've never watched a second of it,, but from actual history)


----------



## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

I asked my dil if she would view someone touching her hair, without invitation, as an assault, she wears her hair au natural 
She said yes she would, most definitely!
She likened it to when, in the old days (her words) complete strangers would rub the very pregnant tummies of expectant mums, for luck, without asking 
Or 
Being out for an evening and someone wolf whistling her
Not an assault as in DV type assault, 
but 
An assault on _*her*_ right to decide, who can invade her personal space, to that degree and makes her feel like she's objectified.
She said it makes her squirm and feel squeamish, inside, if someone even asks to touch it and 99.9% of the time she gives them a polite but emphatic " no you may not"
My son would be less than generous, to anyone who decided, they had a right to touch her, without her permission


Because she wears it natural, it would seem, most people who ask, when _she _has asked why they would want to, believe it would 'feel crispy' to the touch


----------



## Emlar (Sep 29, 2020)

I've watched the first 3 episodes and I thought they came across quite well. I'm quite indifferent generally to the royal family, but I don't think they seemed like they were attention seeking or attacking the royal family, etc.

This thread is also quite interesting as to how people create such strong views of people they've never met purely based on the media representation. I don't think I would be a strong enough person to cope with being remotely famous and people having an opinion on everything I did!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Emlar said:


> I've watched the first 3 episodes and I thought they came across quite well. I'm quite indifferent generally to the royal family, but I don't think they seemed like they were attention seeking or attacking the royal family, etc.
> 
> This thread is also quite interesting as to how people create such strong views of people they've never met purely based on the media representation. I don't think I would be a strong enough person to cope with being remotely famous and people having an opinion on everything I did!


No they didnt this time. They accused the RF of racism on Oprah. as to judging people we don't know , you don't have strong views on people you haven't met? Not even Boris? 

ETA he said on Oprah
"how “angry” he is with the British public for mourning his mother when they “never even met her”. 
I hope he never finds out I bawled my eyes out.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> No they didnt this time. They accused the RF of racism on Oprah. as to judging people we don't know , you don't have strong views on people you haven't met? Not even Boris?
> 
> ETA he said on Oprah
> "how “angry” he is with the British public for mourning his mother when they “never even met her”.
> I hope he never finds out I bawled my eyes out.


What an odd thing to be angry with others about, I’m sure if we had all ignored her death he would have moaned that it showed she wasn’t liked in the uk.

I read something today that Meghan has started distancing herself from the documentary saying that it wasn’t quite their story but has been interpreted by someone else. In other words she will be blaming the someone else for insinuating anything against the RF. Maybe there’s going to be another program of ’their truth’


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> No they didnt this time. They accused the RF of racism on Oprah. as to judging people we don't know , you don't have strong views on people you haven't met? Not even Boris?
> 
> ETA he said on Oprah
> "how “angry” he is with the British public for mourning his mother when they “never even met her”.
> I hope he never finds out I bawled my eyes out.


I had to look this up because I watched that Oprah interview and I didn't remember this part. But apparently he has done more interviews with her on Apple TV.

Anyway, to me it seems that the context of what he says is important. He said that at 12 he didn't understand why the public was mourning her, that they'd never even met her.

"It was like I was outside of my body and just walking along doing what was expected of me.

'Showing one tenth of the emotion that everybody else was showing. I thought, "This is my mum. You never even met her".' 

To me that seems understandable of a 12 year old boy?


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Oh how things can be so easily misinterpreted…


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Siskin said:


> What an odd thing to be angry with others about, I’m sure if we had all ignored her death he would have moaned that it showed she wasn’t liked in the uk.
> 
> I read something today that Meghan has started distancing herself from the documentary saying that it wasn’t quite their story but has been interpreted by someone else. In other words she will be blaming the someone else for insinuating anything against the RF. Maybe there’s going to be another program of ’their truth’


It would be really odd to distance themselves from it... I mean it's not been very well received by critics... maybe that's why?


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Psygon said:


> I had to look this up because I watched that Oprah interview and I didn't remember this part. But apparently he has done more interviews with her on Apple TV.
> 
> Anyway, to me it seems that the context of what he says is important. He said that at 12 he didn't understand why the public was mourning her, that they'd never even met her.
> 
> ...


Perhaps, but surely even at that age he would have been aware how very popular she was


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Siskin said:


> Perhaps, but surely even at that age he would have been aware how very popular she was


I'm not sure that understanding how popular your mother is translates into understanding why everyone is grieving when you're 12 years old. 

I think as well that anger is a well documented part of the grieving process. I guess I'm just not sure why, amongst all the things he has said in various documentaries, that his reflections on his feelings when he was 12 years old is something to be angsty over. Tho I also understand that the way the media wrote about that particular segment looked mostly negative from what I just saw when searching. Tho pretty surprised that the most balanced accurate article was The Daily Mail 🤣


----------



## Emlar (Sep 29, 2020)

kimthecat said:


> No they didnt this time. They accused the RF of racism on Oprah. as to judging people we don't know , you don't have strong views on people you haven't met? Not even Boris?
> 
> ETA he said on Oprah
> "how “angry” he is with the British public for mourning his mother when they “never even met her”.
> I hope he never finds out I bawled my eyes out.


Never said that I haven't or don't do it! Just said that it was interesting how it happens.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Psygon said:


> I had to look this up because I watched that Oprah interview and I didn't remember this part. But apparently he has done more interviews with her on Apple TV.
> 
> Anyway, to me it seems that the context of what he says is important. He said that at 12 he didn't understand why the public was mourning her, that they'd never even met her.
> 
> ...


Yes of course . The quote was present tense so I assumed he meant now. There was a film clip with the quote but I will see if I can find it but unfortunately it wasnt subtitled and I wasnt able to check it.

I did a google , it was Apple not Oprah. Sorry , that was a memory thing , not an intention to mislead.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Emlar said:


> Never said that I haven't or don't do it! Just said that it was interesting how it happens.


Yes , it is interesting . 

Talking about Boris , I popped out to take bags up to the poo bin when he first became outr MP and he was across the road doing the rounds, I didnt' have enough nerve to call out Hi Boris , and hold up the poo bags and say we;re in the same business so I went back in in ( and hid in the fridge)  Another time , OH was walking the dogs and had just left the posh park as Boris was leaving the car park. he slowed down and wound down the window and said hello to him , OH said Hello back and then he drove off. Weird !


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

This is about Netflix. I cant read all of it as its subscribed. I wonder if the BBC would have given permission . Apparently In America they have something called Fair Use .
Netflix didn't get BBC permission to use Diana Panorama interview in Harry and Meghan documentary (telegraph.co.uk)

The BBC did not give permission for Netflix to use clips of its Panorama interview with Diana, Princess of Wales from its controversial Harry & Meghan documentary, the corporation insisted on Friday. ...


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> it wasn’t quite their story but has been interpreted by someone else.


Well, blow me down, what a stroke of good luck to get £88 million for a story that wasn't even theirs! And another (alleged) £37 million from the book (of which some has been [also allegedly] pledged to charity); likely written entirely by a ghost writer also, so not his story. How exceedingly fortuitous.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Calvine said:


> Well, blow me down, what a stroke of good luck to get £88 million for a story that wasn't even theirs! And another (alleged) £37 million from the book (of which some has been [also allegedly] pledged to charity); likely written entirely by a ghost writer also, so not his story. How exceedingly fortuitous.


Isn’t it just. Wish I could do that.


----------



## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I haven't got a story to tell, and I haven't had a book published, can I have my £125million now please. I don't have a family I can sponge off.

Thank you.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Deguslave said:


> can I have my £125million now please


I don't see why not; speak to one of the mods - they'll see you OK.


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Deguslave said:


> I haven't got a story to tell, and I haven't had a book published, can I have my £125million now please. I don't have a family I can sponge off.
> 
> Thank you.


You can have it as soon as my 3Billion arrives from Nigeria - should be any day now!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

The new trailer is out . Harry says the palace lied to protect his brother. I wonder if he will say what they lied about ?


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> The new trailer is out . Harry says the palace lied to protect his brother. I wonder if he will say what they lied about ?


That's if his telling the truth, I'm sorry at the moment I don't believe anything Harry or Meghan say.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> The new trailer is out . Harry says the palace lied to protect his brother. I wonder if he will say what they lied about ?


Of course not.........no names no backup no proof

If they told you stuff like that, they couldn't keep milking the cow, now could they?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

rona said:


> Of course not.........no names no backup no proof
> 
> If they told you stuff like that, they couldn't keep milking the cow, now could they?


Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story.

This is the problem with M&H and the ‘truths‘ they keep spouting, no details, no evidence and no proof. They are not truths, just what Harry is thinking and stoked by Meghan into becoming a truth
I‘ve read that when William and Harry were growing up Harry used to mock his brother saying that he would have a better life and do whatever he wanted whereas William had to be King and be restricted in what he can do. I used to think that Harry was just saying he would have a far nicer life, but I’m now wondering whether he was jealous then of the extra attention William must have had and this is his way of getting his own back.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)




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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Siskin said:


> I‘ve read that when William and Harry were growing up Harry used to mock his brother saying that he would have a better life and do whatever he wanted whereas William had to be King and be restricted in what he can do. I used to think that Harry was just saying he would have a far nicer life, but I’m now wondering whether he was jealous then of the extra attention William must have had and this is his way of getting his own back.


He used to mock William when he started losing his hair at a young age, a bit cruel , Now Harry has a bald patch.  . Harry was always the most confident one. William was very self conscious but he has come on leaps and bounds.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rona said:


> they couldn't keep milking the cow


Already had the Oprah interview, the Netflix and the book due soon; surely by then the cow will have run dry. I wonder what they will do then to snatch more millions? I dread to think.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Calvine said:


> Already had the Oprah interview, the Netflix and the book due soon; surely by then the cow will have run dry. I wonder what they will do then to snatch more millions? I dread to think.


We haven't had the miniseries, or the film of the book yet. Unfortunately we keep getting the soap opera.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Calvine said:


> Already had the Oprah interview, the Netflix and the book due soon; surely by then the cow will have run dry. I wonder what they will do then to snatch more millions? I dread to think.


I wouldn't be surpised if Harry doesn't run back to Daddy, saying they didn't mean all the horrid things they said, and could they please have their old job back 😱 😱


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Probably a good thing he's not living in tudor times; offending the king then would have gotten both of them thrown in the Tower.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Sadly I think Harry will come back - after his marriage fails. Which I hate to predict, but I just can't see them lasting. I hope they do, but I just feel like it's too much pressure on a marriage to be feuding with both families (his and hers) and the media, and public opinion.
I just hope when it happens Harry doesn't blame his family for breaking up the marriage. But simply realizes it wasn't meant to be and quietly comes back and settles down.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

If the marriage fails he'll blame the media, even though they like to feed the beast that apparently keeps biting them.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> Sadly I think Harry will come back - after his marriage fails. Which I hate to predict, but I just can't see them lasting. I hope they do, but I just feel like it's too much pressure on a marriage to be feuding with both families (his and hers) and the media, and public opinion.
> I just hope when it happens Harry doesn't blame his family for breaking up the marriage. But simply realizes it wasn't meant to be and quietly comes back and settles down.


I don’t think their marriage will last either, she has form after all. The trouble is Harry idolises her and she is firmly sharing the pedestal that his mothers already on. If she does leave him he will lash out at everyone, the media, his family, the UK, he won’t blame Meghan. I actually fear for him as he could easily decide life isn’t worth living without her


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Deguslave said:


> Probably a good thing he's not living in tudor times; offending the king then would have gotten both of them thrown in the Tower.


Or even worse ,it could have been "off with his head"!



O2.0 said:


> Sadly I think Harry will come back - after his marriage fails. Which I hate to predict, but I just can't see them lasting. I hope they do, but I just feel like it's too much pressure on a marriage to be feuding with both families (his and hers) and the media, and public opinion.
> I just hope when it happens Harry doesn't blame his family for breaking up the marriage. But simply realizes it wasn't meant to be and quietly comes back and settles down.


I'm of a similar opinion to you. Harry has given up everything for Meghan. His way of life, family, friends and security to live a life that must be quite alien to him. Once the excitement and hype have died down and as they say "the honeymoon is over" maybe he'll realise and regret what he gave up especially if for whatever reason his relationship with Meghan has begun to deteriorate.

An interesting article in Vogue, written in January 2020.









What Happened When King Edward VIII Quit the Royal Family?


As Prince Harry and Meghan Markle seek to step down as senior royals, it’s worth revisiting what happened to the last British royal who defied the institution.




www.vogue.com


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I don't think she had any idea what been royal meant when she married Harry and when realised life had changed and would be the same again and couldn't just do what she wanted to when she wanted to she started to she started to act like a spoilt child, life as royal isn't like that. Harry is so infatuated with her never saw what he was getting into. Same as his Uncle, history repeating it's self.

Taking it out on his brother is just wicked.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I honestly think that Me-again had the Hollywood ideal of what being a princess would be like. Reality is so very different!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Siskin said:


> I don’t think their marriage will last either, she has form after all. The trouble is Harry idolises her and she is firmly sharing the pedestal that his mothers already on. If she does leave him he will lash out at everyone, the media, his family, the UK, he won’t blame Meghan. I actually fear for him as he could easily decide life isn’t worth living without her


*I also fear for him. Who's to blame for this whole mess, i believe the royals never understood Harry's mind ( or mental health.)
As things stand, i believe Charles should step up and get this mess sorted, but i can't ever see him doing that.*


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Deguslave said:


> I honestly think that Me-again had the Hollywood ideal of what being a princess would be like. Reality is so very different!



I think you are right, Cinderella comes to mind with a handsome prince marrying her. pity she's turned out to be the evil witch leading her prince by his nose.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Siskin said:


> I don’t think their marriage will last either, she has form after all. The trouble is Harry idolises her and she is firmly sharing the pedestal that his mothers already on. If she does leave him he will lash out at everyone, the media, his family, the UK, he won’t blame Meghan. I actually fear for him as he could easily decide life isn’t worth living without her


By form, do you mean her previous failed marriage?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> Charles should step up and get this mess sorted,


I agree, but I don't think he will - I see him as rather weak. He married Harry's mother because it was expected of him - he would not stand up for what he wanted - too busy talking to trees. I believe he was sent away to get him away from the ''unsuitable'' Camilla and he just meekly went, so Camilla said ''sod it'' and married someone else.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> By form, do you mean her previous failed marriage?


Yes, the one she allegedly texted to tell him she wanted a divorce


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Siskin said:


> Yes, the one she allegedly texted to tell him she wanted a divorce


Allegedly…. 

And a previous failed marriage doesn’t mean this marriage won’t be successful.

I certainly hope it is.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Allegedly….
> 
> And a previous failed marriage doesn’t mean this marriage won’t be successful.
> 
> I certainly hope it is.


Indeed no; Mrs Simpson was twice divorced I think and they stayed together? I am very surprised that M's ex husband has kept quiet for so long - I imagine he has been offered megabucks to write an article about his life with her.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I hope that they all manage to find some happiness - and some introspection - after what must've been an awfully confusing childhood fraught with grief that thankfully many of us will never have experienced.

I have scant opinion on the Royal Family, they live lives nothing like mine but goodness me, such tittle tattle! I wouldn't wish anyone's marriage to fail unless they wanted it to, particularly anyone whom I didn't know! Crikey!

Anyway I came in to share this - Jonathan Glazier on the persuasive techniques used by TV and Media in documentaries using this specific film. Specially on bias which has come up a lot in this thread.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

MollySmith said:


> Anyway I came in to share this - Jonathan Glazier on the persuasive techniques used by TV and Media in documentaries using this specific film. Specially on bias which has come up a lot in this thread.



I watch this and I feel as if he thought I was stupid. 
I'm 74 and don't like the feeling that someone is talking down to me.
I'm not a child having what I'm watching explained to me, I feel quite annoyed.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I also fear for him. Who's to blame for this whole mess, i believe the royals never understood Harry's mind ( or mental health.)
> As things stand, i believe Charles should step up and get this mess sorted, but i can't ever see him doing that.*


How could he sort this out. I dont see what he can do.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Happy Paws2 said:


> I watch this and I feel as if he thought I was stupid.
> I'm 74 and don't like the feeling that someone is talking down to me.
> I'm not a child having what I'm watching explained to me, I feel quite annoyed.


 I lost interest after a couple of minutes. It must have been my unconscious bias.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> Allegedly….


 I think thats it in a nutshell. We don't really know what happened or what is the truth on either side. Only those involved know and sometimes our memories get distorted.


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## scatatonic (Dec 13, 2019)

I havent read more than the first couple.of posts but I have watched the first three episodes and was utterly shocked by the media coverage in the tabloids. He lost his mother due to press intrusion and the nasty racist bullying Meghan had in the media is utterly shocking to me. I dont read tabloids so most of it passed me by.. I do think the Royal family are slow to change and colonialism is something we should apologise for.. wearing blackamore brooches and demanding to know where someone of colour is from just exemplifies how shockingly out of date the hierarchy in this country are.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

I think what stood out for me was when Meghan was told she had to curtsey to the Queen and was so disrespectful when describing how she was to do it. I saw the clip on Jeremy Vine. I wouldn't watch the documentary. Although I enjoyed the wedding and thought they looked happy I've always had a feeling it won't last. They're from different worlds and really have nothing in common.


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## scatatonic (Dec 13, 2019)

margy said:


> I think what stood out for me was when Meghan was told she had to curtsey to the Queen and was so disrespectful when describing how she was to do it. I saw the clip on Jeremy Vine. I wouldn't watch the documentary. Although I enjoyed the wedding and thought they looked happy I've always had a feeling it won't last. They're from different worlds and really have nothing in common.


if you watched the documentary you would have more context. Harry literally asked a few minutes beforehand, in the car, did she know how to curtsey as the Queen would be there... she laughed as she thought it was a joke... she was totally shocked! I mean it is weird!!! She drew on her acting ability, she wasnt being disrespectful ahe was joking about how bizarre the situation was to her...another example of the press portraying her in the worst possible light.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

But it isn't a joke. Protocol is we curtsey to the Queen. Even I know that and I've never met her. She just didn't understand there are rules that have to be followed l.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Then why didnt Harry explain all this earlier, ? Surely they must have discussed the ins and outs of Royal life when they were courting?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

scatatonic said:


> if you watched the documentary you would have more context. Harry literally asked a few minutes beforehand, in the car, did she know how to curtsey as the Queen would be there... she laughed as she thought it was a joke... she was totally shocked! I mean it is weird!!! She drew on her acting ability, she wasnt being disrespectful ahe was joking about how bizarre the situation was to her...another example of the press portraying her in the worst possible light.


I find it strange that Harry didn’t tell her about a number of things about what she would need to do. To suddenly tell her she would need to curtesy to the queen minutes before meeting her is very odd. I also think she was being disrespectful to the queen in the documentary joking or not, even Harry looked embarrassed by her demo


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## scatatonic (Dec 13, 2019)




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## scatatonic (Dec 13, 2019)

literally the first post i see on my facebook feed 😂 seriously guys question where your ideas are coming from... the press HATE her. I, therefore, will not. Because I dont trust our press at all..


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## scatatonic (Dec 13, 2019)

margy said:


> But it isn't a joke. Protocol is we curtsey to the Queen. Even I know that and I've never met her. She just didn't understand there are rules that have to be followed l.
> [/QUO


You and I curtsey to the Queen lol.. Meghan didnt realise family had to 😂 and yes Harry looked uncomfortable because he has grown up thinking all sorts of abnormal things are normal...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

scatatonic said:


> literally the first post i see on my facebook feed 😂 seriously guys question where your ideas are coming from... the press HATE her. I, therefore, will not. Because I dont trust our press at all..



My 'ideas' come from my own head and are formed from my opinion of what I see and hear.

Because they don't coincide with yours doesn't mean they are wrong.

You could be wrong - couldn't you?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

scatatonic said:


> You and I curtsey to the Queen lol.. Meghan didnt realise family had to 😂 and yes Harry looked uncomfortable because he has grown up thinking all sorts of abnormal things are normal...



You may believe that curtseying to her Majesty, as a mark of respect, is 'abnormal', but I don't.


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## scatatonic (Dec 13, 2019)

Rafa said:


> You may believe that curtseying to her Majesty, as a mark of respect, is 'abnormal', but I don't.


I didnt say that.. I said Meghan didnt realise family had to curtsey... I did say Harry has been bought up to think a lot of abnormal things are normal. Reality is sensitive, compassionate, empathetic people do not thrive in an outdated archaic institution. I am very uncomfortable wth the level of vitriol centred on someone who has really done nothing to warrant it.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, I believe all are entitled to their opinions.

Meghan Markle has had no difficulty appearing on the Oprah Winfrey show and a Netflix documentary, airing her opinion of our Royal Family, so it would be unreasonable to expect that there won't be a response to that.

If she doesn't want the attention from the Press, it may be a sound idea for her to go and live the private life, away from the spotlight, which she says she craves and stop earning huge amounts of money from trashing her Husband's family.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Rafa said:


> Well, I believe all are entitled to their opinions.
> 
> Meghan Markle has had no difficulty appearing on the Oprah Winfrey show and a Netflix documentary, airing her opinion of our Royal Family, so it would be unreasonable to expect that there won't be a response to that.
> 
> If she doesn't want the attention from the Press, it may be a sound idea for her to go and live the private life, away from the spotlight, which she says she craves and stop earning huge amounts of money from trashing her Husband's family.


Hopefully she will be running out of ammunition soon as she spent so little time being part of the royal family.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

scatatonic said:


> if you watched the documentary you would have more context. Harry literally asked a few minutes beforehand, in the car, did she know how to curtsey as the Queen would be there... she laughed as she thought it was a joke... she was totally shocked! I mean it is weird!!! She drew on her acting ability, she wasnt being disrespectful ahe was joking about how bizarre the situation was to her...another example of the press portraying her in the worst possible light.


I'm American, I understand that you curtsy to the queen. We're not stupid, we understand protocol as we have our own protocols too. 

I watched that part of the documentary where she retold that event and I did cringe a little. It did look mocking to me in the retelling. And Harry did look uncomfortable. 
That said, I think it could be interpreted several ways. She could have been being self-deprecating and mocking herself and her awkwardness, or she could have been mocking the whole pomp and pretentiousness of it all. 

She obviously felt awkward, I did get that from the whole thing. 



scatatonic said:


> Harry has been bought up to think a lot of abnormal things are normal. Reality is sensitive, compassionate, empathetic people do not thrive in an outdated archaic institution. I am very uncomfortable wth the level of vitriol centred on someone who has really done nothing to warrant it.


Meh, normal is subjective. You Brits think putting wet, sloppy beans on sad bread is totally normal and I can assure you, outside of your world, it's not. But here in Appalachia they put cornbread in milk and call it breakfast and I'm pretty sure the rest of the world would not find anything normal about that. 
I could do other examples, not food, but I figured I could get the idea across with minimal hurt feelings that way  
Harry's normal _is_ normal for him and his circle and Meghan's normal is normal for her. And quite frankly neither of their _normal_ is normal for any of us on here because we're not even adjacent to that kind of wealth and privilege. 

I agree that the level of vitriol in some posts is surprising, but people are entitled to their feelings. It's not anyone's place to tell someone how they should or shouldn't feel. 

This is where the whole unconscious bias thing starts annoying me. One, it seems like it's usually people who discovered their own unconscious bias two days ago _cough_ Harry Nazi costume _cough_ are now lecturing us mere plebs that we should examine our own.

But two, at what point am I allowed my own prejudices? It's perfectly acceptable to say that you prefer to date tall men, or you prefer blonde women, or a certain body type. These are prejudices are they not? Or what about if you say you don't want to date someone because you just don't feel attracted to them that way. 

So at what point can I say I just don't like someone and not have to explain myself? If it's okay to say I get a good vibe of someone and just like them for no particular reason, can it not be the same to also dislike someone for no particular reason. Or for a reason that has nothing to do with race or ethnicity or country of origin or any of the -isms that are currently popular?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

O2.0 said:


> Meh, normal is subjective. You Brits think putting wet, sloppy beans on sad bread is totally normal and I can assure you, outside of your world, it's not.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> putting wet, sloppy beans on sad bread



I'm shocked!

We certainly do not put wet, sloppy beans on sad bread.

We put wet, sloppy beans on sad TOAST!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Respectfully @Rafa , I believe you are being a little breadist. You may want to check your unconscious bias. 
All toast is in fact bread 😜


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Actually, we Brits are very 'rational'.

We can buy sad bread, stuff it in a machine that burns it, slap it on a plate with enough butter to cause our ventricles to slam shut and call it toast.

That makes it okay.

The rest of the World has much to learn from our cullinary expertise.

You're welcome.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

O2.0 said:


> Respectfully @Rafa , I believe you are being a little breadist. You may want to check your unconscious bias.
> All toast is in fact bread 😜


All toast may be bread, but not all bread is toast.

And some of us add things to the wet sloppy beans before we put them on the hot, buttered, preferably open-fired toast, such as cheese.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

scatatonic said:


> I havent read more than the first couple.of posts but I have watched the first three episodes and was utterly shocked by the media coverage in the tabloids. He lost his mother due to press intrusion and the nasty racist bullying Meghan had in the media is utterly shocking to me. I dont read tabloids so most of it passed me by.. I do think the Royal family are slow to change and colonialism is something we should apologise for.. wearing blackamore brooches and demanding to know where someone of colour is from just exemplifies how shockingly out of date the hierarchy in this country are.


I agree but also speaking of the interview.
Diana gave an interview.
Prince Andrew have an interview which was enormously embarrassing. In fact he continued to spend time with a known sex offender after his arrest. 

Yet the hate is all saved for Meghan.
An interesting








You Don’t Have To Like Meghan Markle, But You Should Rethink Why You Hate Her


The Duchess of Sussex’s polarising Oprah interview is a stark reminder that tabloid media builds women up only to tear them down




www.marieclaire.com.au





If you watch the show she openly admits she wasn’t prepared for Royal life. Kate Middleton had years of preparation. She doesn’t laugh at the Queen more at herself.


Being divorced doesn’t give you form. Walking away from an unhappy marriage is one of the hardest things you can do. If she was so horrible I imagine her ex would have sold his story. He obviously has some respect for her.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

margy said:


> But it isn't a joke. Protocol is we curtsey to the Queen. Even I know that and I've never met her. She just didn't understand there are rules that have to be followed l


Actually it isn't protocol that we, meaning a member of the general public, have to curtsey (or bow if you're a man,) to the Queen.

I happen to know because I was presented to HM when she visited the charity I worked for on her visit to South Africa. We were told that curtseying to HM was optional. The only rule was not to touch her or try to shake her hand.

The protocol is different for members of the RF and who curtseys to whom depends on your rank in the Royal Family.



https://www.royal.uk/greeting-member-royal-family#:~:text=There%20are%20no%20obligatory%20codes,hands%20in%20the%20usual%20way


.









The Royal Rules About Bowing and Curtsying Are So Weird, We Had to Do a Deep Dive


10/10 chance I’d f*ck this up.




www.cosmopolitan.com


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Calvine said:


> Indeed no; Mrs Simpson was twice divorced I think and they stayed together? I am very surprised that M's ex husband has kept quiet for so long - I imagine he has been offered megabucks to write an article about his life with her.


As far as I understand whilst Mrs Simpson and the Duke stayed together, their marriage was a deeply unhappy one due to lack of money and her affairs with other men.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Magyarmum said:


> As far as I understand whilst Mrs Simpson and the Duke stayed together, their marriage was a deeply unhappy one due to lack of money and her affairs with other men.



I've read that, it was a unhappy marriage but they stayed together as they didn't have much choice.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Siskin said:


> I find it strange that Harry didn’t tell her about a number of things about what she would need to do. To suddenly tell her she would need to curtesy to the queen minutes before meeting her is very odd. I also think she was being disrespectful to the queen in the documentary joking or not, even Harry looked embarrassed by her demo


I didn’t see it as her mocking the queen, but rather demonstrating how badly she executed the curtesy being so out of her depth and caught on the hop and made herself look ridiculous.

I also don’t think it’s that odd that she may have thought that things were a bit less formal in the family's private homes at a family gathering …. it is 2022 after all …. not Tudor times.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

scatatonic said:


> literally the first post i see on my facebook feed 😂 seriously guys question where your ideas are coming from... the press HATE her. I, therefore, will not. Because I dont trust our press at all..


Her own mouth.


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## tristy (5 mo ago)

seen in the papers this morning that a pub The Duke of Sussex has a new beer called Harry's Bitter


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Deguslave said:


> All toast may be bread, but not all bread is toast.
> 
> And some of us add things to the wet sloppy beans before we put them on the hot, buttered, preferably open-fired toast, such as cheese.


Unless gluten is removed... 

Shall I get my coat?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> I agree but also speaking of the interview.
> Diana gave an interview.
> Prince Andrew have an interview which was enormously embarrassing. In fact he continued to spend time with a known sex offender after his arrest.
> 
> ...


I think it also depends on your media diet. 
I'm on FB and insta and here. Oh and youtube.
The only place I've seen Meghan Markle mentioned is here. There is absolutely nothing in my FB or instagram feed about her. No suggested videos in youtube and they even suggest the Kardashians sometimes though I have less than zero interest in them too.
I was in line at the grocery store yesterday and none of the magazines in the check-out line had anything about any royals. Though honestly I can't remember anything on any of the magazines because I generally don't pay them much attention. 
Interestingly the Prince Andrew stuff was all over my radar. Probably because of the women's stuff I follow, but still his smirking face was all over my news feeds. 

Now, that doesn't mean MM hasn't been unfairly targeted and unfairly treated by the media both social and tabloid. I'm sure she has. Whether that's because she's a woman, she's biracial or why is anyone's guess. I suspect that's part of it, but I also suspect that there are other motivations as well.

I don't like being told to examine why I hate someone. I mean, yes, I think it's important to examine our feelings, particularly strong feelings. But one, I don't hate anyone really. Certainly not someone I don't even know who's life and life decisions have zero to do with me and don't affect me in any way whatsoever. 

And two, at what point am I allowed my feelings? Or more importantly why are some feelings important but others are not? We're supposed to blindly accept that if it felt racist to Harry and Meghan it was racist and their feelings about it trump anything else. But what about the feelings of the palace aides who felt anxious about having to deal with them? Do those feelings not count just as much? 
And sure, none of those storylines are verifiable, but my own bias is towards the working class. The aides, the maids, the assistants, the security detail. 

It's 100% a bias, and I am self-aware enough about it to know it is a bias and may not be true. But am I not allowed that bias base on my own life and my own experiences?


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## tristy (5 mo ago)

Hate is a strong word and I don't think it applies here , though I may be wrong. It would seem that Harry is still not accepting his mother's death and that Megan may be feeding on this. Harry was brought up as a very privileged person, even with his stint in the army , he was and is still a Royal. Megan is an actress. They are not the first to opt out, apart from the King who abdicated, his Uncle Edward also opted out to follow his theatrical career and later came back into the fold. However niether of these aired their washing in public, like harry and megan have. We all have or know of families who break up but they don't shout about it . Where is their dignity?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Boxer123 said:


> I agree but also speaking of the interview.
> Diana gave an interview.
> Prince Andrew have an interview which was enormously embarrassing. In fact he continued to spend time with a known sex offender after his arrest.


Diana was mislead and was told lies by Bashir , and he encouraged her to do the interview, Andrew want to "clear " his name( as if he could ! ) They didnt go on to write books or make millions from Netflix and more to come.

Prince Andrew is a disgrace but unless we can send him to the tower there is not much we can do . At the time , people spoke out and called him out on twitter etc , about him lying about Pizzagate and calling him a nonce and mad that he got away with it and the RF paid the money but there is only so many times you can say that.

M and H are like the Duracell bunnies , they go on and on and on.

I dont hate them , I hope they stay married for the sake of their children, I dont like what they have done .

Meghan was unfairly targeted . most of the royal family have been . I think the Mail was trying to sh*t stir between Kate and her and cause trouble between them so they have more to write about.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

tristy said:


> seen in the papers this morning that a pub The Duke of Sussex has a new beer called Harry's Bitter


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> I think it also depends on your media diet.
> I'm on FB and insta and here. Oh and youtube.
> The only place I've seen Meghan Markle mentioned is here. There is absolutely nothing in my FB or instagram feed about her. No suggested videos in youtube and they even suggest the Kardashians sometimes though I have less than zero interest in them too.
> I was in line at the grocery store yesterday and none of the magazines in the check-out line had anything about any royals. Though honestly I can't remember anything on any of the magazines because I generally don't pay them much attention.
> ...


Of course you can have your own opinions they irritate me slightly but what irritates me about them is the same for the rest of the Royal Family; over priviledged lecturing on climate change then flying on private jets. 

I am trying to make two points (badly).

1. You cannot deny the media bias in the UK. I don’t know about America but here we only get negative views. Piers Morgan had a prime time morning show and would every day tear her to shreads. Every article is negative. 

This thread was started about the show. Yet people haven’t watched it but are getting angry from what they have seen in the media. As discussed earlier she didn’t mock the queen she laughed at herself but it’s portrayed differently by the papers. 

This thread has been mild in its comments. If you dive into social media people hate this woman. She gets more hate than Putin. I remember the same happening to Caroline Flack.

2. I can concede that they have consistently issues in their narrative I just don’t understand how everyone can not even consider just 1% there may be a grain of truth. Considering the RF history.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

kimthecat said:


> Diana was mislead and was told lies to Bashir , and he encouraged her to do the interview, Andrew want to "clear " his name( as if he could ! ) They didnt go on to write books or make millions from Netflix and more to come.
> 
> Prince Andrew is a disgrace but unless we can send him to the tower there is not much we can do . At the time , people spoke out and called him out on twitter etc , about him lying about Pizzagate and calling him a nonce and mad that he got away with it and the RF paid the money but there is only so many times you can say that.
> 
> ...


Had Diana lived she may well have spoken out I understand she wasn’t treated well.

Andrew my point is people get so angry about Meghan causing damage to the RF but not so much about this which in my opinion is a million times worse.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Boxer123 said:


> Of course you can have your own opinions they irritate me slightly but what irritates me about them is the same for the rest of the Royal Family; over priviledged lecturing on climate change then flying on private jets.
> 
> I am trying to make two points (badly).
> 
> ...


For those who haven't seen the documentary, this is the clip of Meghan talking about meeting the Queen and the curtsey.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Boxer123 said:


> Had Diana lived she may well have spoken out I understand she wasn’t treated well.
> 
> Andrew my point is people get so angry about Meghan causing damage to the RF but not so much about this which in my opinion is a million times worse.


I got your point but I dont think you got mine. Im sorry I didn't explain it right . Yes it is worse. but that doesnt mean we cant critise any other royal . People were very angry at him too and disgusted and still are ,

Diana did speak out in the interview with bashir, he was feeding her lies and made her paranoid. he should go to prison for that. Diana used the press to her advantage though at times.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

William and Catherine flew to America for the Earthshot awards on a commercial flight which they often do if possible.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Siskin said:


> William and Catherine flew to America for the Earthshot awards on a commercial flight which they often do if possible.


I find the Earthshot awards so buttock clenchingly ugh! Meant to shine a light on the planet dying but invite people to fly and expend 1.7 tonnes of carbon per person per seat (1/3 of the average person's UK carbon) on London to NY flight one way. 

Better to not fly than fly at all and for something so carbon illiterate (in my opinion), but they could all do with less hot air in general, including Harry and Meghan making Netflix docs. Streaming one hour of pointless TV is 100grams of CO2, which is the equivalent of driving three miles or charging 146 smartphones.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

MollySmith said:


> I find the Earthshot awards so buttock clenchingly ugh! Meant to shine a light on the planet dying but invite people to fly and expend 1.7 tonnes of carbon per person per seat (1/3 of the average person's UK carbon) on London to NY flight one way.
> 
> Better to not fly than fly at all and for something so carbon illiterate (in my opinion), but they could all do with less hot air in general, including Harry and Meghan making Netflix docs. Streaming one hour of pointless TV is 100grams of CO2, which is the equivalent of driving three miles or charging 146 smartphones.


Did not know that you learn something new each day. Even if you remove the flying the super rich are huge contributors to climate damage due to their lifestyle and should not be lecturing me who has to choose between streaming or heating


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

MollySmith said:


> I find the Earthshot awards so buttock clenchingly ugh! Meant to shine a light on the planet dying but invite people to fly and expend 1.7 tonnes of carbon per person per seat (1/3 of the average person's UK carbon) on London to NY flight one way.
> 
> Better to not fly than fly at all and for something so carbon illiterate (in my opinion), but they could all do with less hot air in general, including Harry and Meghan making Netflix docs. Streaming one hour of pointless TV is 100grams of CO2, which is the equivalent of driving three miles or charging 146 smartphones.


well at least they are trying and a lot of the ideas that people come up with and are making we’re good, such as replacing plastic food packaging made from kelp which is biodegradable and has the added bonus of being a fertiliser. Kelp fields are very beneficial for fish fry and other small creatures plus being very beneficial in absorbing carbon. I’m sorry if you think these ideas are of no interest and ‘buttock clenching’. A lot of the people up for awards were shown via film and zoom.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

scatatonic said:


> I am very uncomfortable wth the level of vitriol centred on someone who has really done nothing to warrant it.


She was planning this and filming it while the queen was dying, she would have still shown it had the queen still been alive. A woman who had served her country for seven decades with dignity

Don't tell me she doesn't deserve it


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

MollySmith said:


> Streaming one hour of pointless TV is 100grams of CO2, which is the equivalent of driving three miles or charging 146 smartphones.


I wonder how much CO2 this thread is generating....


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

The not flying thing has been proven so often. First with the Icelandic volcano which stopped everything flying in certain areas, then with the covid lockdowns when hardly anyone was going anywhere, the earth and the atmosphere improved and nature started to regain ground.

I have no problem with people coming up with new ideas to save the planet, and I certainly have no problem with grants for the good ones, but I object to people flying all over the globe to talk about it. The tech has been invented for these things to be held virtually.

And don't get me started on the carbon footprint of royal tours to other countries!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

In February I'll be flying to Texas for a conference. Hopefully at some point soon I'll be flying to Scotland with OH and hopefully other places as well. I refuse to feel bad for flying.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

How does David Attenborough and the young girl who;s name I have forgotten get around ?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

kimthecat said:


> How does David Attenborough and the young girl who;s name I have forgotten get around ?


Greta Thunberg makes a big deal about traveling on a sailboat or something. 
No idea about David Attenborough. 

Giving someone a hard time about flying seems petty to me. 
Flying private is another story. But again there can be legitimate reasons to.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> How does David Attenborough and the young girl who;s name I have forgotten get around ?


I believe Greta Thunberg uses rail and sea to travel.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

O2.0 said:


> Greta Thunberg makes a big deal about traveling on a sailboat or something.
> No idea about David Attenborough.
> 
> Giving someone a hard time about flying seems petty to me.
> Flying private is another story. But again there can be legitimate reasons to.


Oh greta , I was googling Greisha . I think that's the name of someones dog  Thanks. 
I agree about flying , hopefully they will come up with ideas about how to make it cleaner.
I do use my car for short journeys usually to the local parks but use the bus and train going to town or hospital.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

For years we always went by train and ferry to the South of France, Spain and Italy until we had Amber and as we took her with us to France the only way we could go was car and Shuttle.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> I believe Greta Thunberg uses rail and sea to travel.


That's good. The problem is the time it takes.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> That's good. The problem is the time it takes.


That’s true. My SIL has a daughter who lives in Spain and when she visits she normally flies which is quick. This last trip she went by train which was a nice journey but took over 6 hours on the fast service which was rather a chunk out of her trip. Also it was a lot more expensive.

Prior to our two trips of a lifetime after we had retired to Canada and NZ I had only flown twice and one of those was work related when we moved to Germany


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Siskin said:


> well at least they are trying and a lot of the ideas that people come up with and are making we’re good, such as replacing plastic food packaging made from kelp which is biodegradable and has the added bonus of being a fertiliser. Kelp fields are very beneficial for fish fry and other small creatures plus being very beneficial in absorbing carbon. I’m sorry if you think these ideas are of no interest and ‘buttock clenching’. A lot of the people up for awards were shown via film and zoom.


Yes actually you're right - point taken - it's better than nothing and it helps one person to learn. It's the flying I find uncomfortable and will forever be so.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> I wonder how much CO2 this thread is generating....


I expect flying to places might reduce some carbon footprints compared to internet use for some users.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Diana , She was like a breath of fresh air , the RF seemed stuffy to me. It was so exciting that she was going to marry Charles . The public were always on her side. They looked happy when they came back from their honeymoon , it look genuine but later she found some cuff links that Camilla had given to Charles still in his procession and it all started to go wrong. I do believe that Charles did give up Camilla when he married but others don't. But he got back with her before he divorced Diana. He did an interview with Jonathan Dimbleby in 1994, It wasnt just about Diana and his marriage but when asked if he had been unfaithful


> Charles: “Yes, absolutely.”
> Dimbleby: “And you were?”
> Charles: “Yes. Until it became irretrievably broken down, us both having tried.”


Bashir fed lies to Diana and she accused Charles of getting their nanny pregnant etc. It made her look unstable and perhaps they didnt know how to handle the situation, She was close to Prince Phillip and they exchange letters when her and Charles first started having problems. He signed of the letters -with fondest love, Pa'.

She had a hard time during and after their break up , Charles had Camilla but she had trouble finding love and she was lonely. If she had lived I don't think she would have been happy with Dodi.
At the time she died, I felt I never forgive Charles and Camilla , I still really havent,I would love to live long enough to see William become king. But Charles is King and he has a job to do so time to move on.

ETA I beleive the Crown has reached this point about their marriage. I dont watch it but wonder how accurate it is. They had to put in a disclaimer that it was a docudrama because viewers took it as Gospel .


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> That's good. The problem is the time it takes.


I worked out how to get to Australia from London without a plane.... it involved 100 days and a cargo boat... that's a lot of love for someone to do that. I would, of course, fly!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> I worked out how to get to Australia from London without a plane.... it involved 100 days and a cargo boat... that's a lot of love for someone to do that. I would, of course, fly!


 Blimey ! They used to go by liner back in the day , my auntie went on one when she went to Australia when she was an exchange teacher , Back in the 60s. I cant remember how long it took .


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Diana , She was like a breath of fresh air , the RF seemed stuffy to me. It was so exciting that she was going to marry Charles . The public were always on her side. They looked happy when they came back from their honeymoon , it look genuine but later she found some cuff links that Camilla had given to Charles still in his procession and it all started to go wrong. I do believe that Charles did give up Camilla when he married but others don't. But he got back with her before he divorced Diana. He did an interview with Jonathan Dimbleby in 1994, It wasnt just about Diana and his marriage but when asked if he had been unfaithful
> 
> 
> Bashir fed lies to Diana and she accused Charles of getting their nanny pregnant etc. It made her look unstable and perhaps they didnt know how to handle the situation, She was close to Prince Phillip and they exchange letters when her and Charles first started having problems. He signed of the letters -with fondest love, Pa'.
> ...


And in the midst of this, two boys who've never lived a remotely ordinary life. Sort of starts to make sense why he's airing the smalls on Netflix.

I do think many families have this institutional approach. Mine certainly do (and it's only just dawned on me that my dad is the eldest, then a sister, two brothers with a bit of gap between them much like the King and his siblings ). That makes me William...


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> And in the midst of this, two boys who've never lived a remotely ordinary life. Sort of starts to make sense why he's airing the smalls on Netflix.
> 
> I do think many families have this institutional approach. Mine certainly do (and it's only just dawned on me that my dad is the eldest, then a sister, two brothers with a bit of gap between them much like the King and his siblings ). That makes me William...


I dont think any of the aristocracy had or have normal lives, sending kids off to boarding school at 8 years old,


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Blimey ! They used to go by liner back in the day , my auntie went on one when she went to Australia when she was an exchange teacher , Back in the 60s. I cant remember how long it took .


I know! I don't like my family and friends _that much_ - apparently the cargo boat is sporadic! 


My point - before it gets twisted as often once happened - is UK/European airlines have fallen short of their own target to reduce carbon. We can (and probably all) do a bit less of some high carbon stuff to balance it out within the limitations of our life. Flying is one thing I don't do without serious consideration.

Whether anyone refuses to feel guilty or think its petty, I really don't care - I was thinking about the Royal Family.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> I dont think any of the aristocracy had or have normal lives, sending kids off to boarding school at 8 years old,


I can't imagine boarding school, can you? You could see my parents house from our playground! I wonder if any PF'ers boarded and how that was for them.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> I can't imagine boarding school, can you? You could see my parents house from our playground! I wonder if any PF'ers boarded and how that was for them.


 I would have hated it. I dont know any members who went to boarding school except one who stopped posting a few years ago, Her parents lived in South Africa and she went to boarding school in England. She didnt go back to SA after and stayed in England, Her relationship with her parents after wasnt very good,


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> Every article is negative


You are right, not a good word is written about either of them now; but it was not so in the beginning. I never saw a bad word about her until well after they were married. The tabloids were enthusing daily and clearly determined to make her the ''new Diana'' and quite clearly the fact that she was not blonde and blue-eyed did not deter them. No-one could forget the gushing accolades, totally over the top, published by some of the tabloids. I think as already mentioned, the hypocrisy of the couple taking private jets like Ubers while lecturing the rest of us on reducing our carbon footprints made it obvious that, deep down, they really are quite shallow, naive, arrogant and selfish; and living in a sort of fantasy world (albeit a very privileged one) if they think people will not see through the sham and hypocrisy.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

MollySmith said:


> I worked out how to get to Australia from London without a plane.... it involved 100 days and a cargo boat... that's a lot of love for someone to do that. I would, of course, fly!





kimthecat said:


> Blimey ! They used to go by liner back in the day , my auntie went on one when she went to Australia when she was an exchange teacher , Back in the 60s. I cant remember how long it took .


I sailed to and from the States twice by boat. Once on the Queen Mary and later on the Queen Elizabeth. It took a week both ways and was boring, boring, boring!
My SIL ans.d BIL emigrated to Australia under the £10 per person scheme. The voyage took 6 weeks

The longest journey I've had since then was coming back from St Lucia. I left around 2 o'clock on the Thursday afternoon to sail to Antigua to catch the plane to Heathrow which arrived there at 9am on Friday morning. I then caught the 9 pm plane to South Africa which arrived in Johannesburg at 6 am on Saturday. Another wait for the 11.30 am plane to Durban. I finally arrived home exhausted at 2.30 on the Saturday afternoon!

Found this about carbon emmissions which I thought quite interesting.









Transport


Explore trends in transport technologies and emissions across the world.




ourworldindata.org


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> Oh greta , I was googling Greisha . I think that's the name of someones dog  Thanks.
> I agree about flying , hopefully they will come up with ideas about how to make it cleaner.
> I do use my car for short journeys usually to the local parks but use the bus and train going to town or hospital.


Were you thinking about this thing who's name is Grisha?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Where OH and I worked there were occasionally the opportunity to work for three years in Australia. We did apply but OH wasn’t doing the right sort of job at the right time to manage to get out there. In those days you were given the choice of flying out or taking the 6 week boat trip. A lot of people flew out and came back by boat, whole thing sounded idyllic and I wish we had been able to go. Still we did get to West Berlin for three years and North Yorkshire dales for 5 years so can’t complain.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

OMG they are deluded.......or ill............they think the RF were worried that they were too popular. Did I hear that right. Someone tell me they haven't said that!!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Magyarmum said:


> Were you thinking about this thing who's name is Grisha?
> 
> View attachment 581020


Yes 😅


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

rona said:


> OMG they are deluded.......or ill............they think the RF were worried that they were too popular. Did I hear that right. *Someone tell me they haven't said that!!*



Yes they did


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Yes they did


Such vanity! If they did, they really are a pair of narcissists. Real Walter Mitty characters.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rona said:


> OMG they are deluded.......or ill............they think the RF were worried that they were too popular. Did I hear that right. Someone tell me they haven't said that!!


 According to the Guardian it is,


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Calvine said:


> Such vanity! If they did, they really are a pair of narcissists. Real Walter Mitty characters.


And apparently she has ambitions to go into US politics. 

President Markle maybe????









Prince Harry branded a 'house husband' as Meghan Markle taps into politics


Meghan Markle is said to be 'looking for a political advisor' to guide her to a spot in the White House.




www.ibtimes.co.uk


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

If as they say William shouted at him I'm not surprised the way they came out and said they were leaving not even telling the Queen, I'd shouted at him as well, I'd have felt like hitting him.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

MollySmith said:


> Whether anyone refuses to feel guilty or think its petty, I really don't care - I was thinking about the Royal Family.


The Royal Family isn't reading your posts on here about flying. Forum members are. Forum members like me who read you say you refuse to fly and wonder how one does that. 

My flight to Texas is for my job. My boss has asked me to go to this conference, she is going with me in fact. Do I tell her no and deal with all those consequences? Do I tell her I'd rather drive and rent an electric vehicle with my own money, do the trip in 15 hours instead of 4 and spend even more time away from my husband and dog that I'm already nervous about leaving? 
So no, I'm not going to feel guilty about flying because I already feel guilty about leaving my husband and dog for 4 days, I'm already stressing about how they're going to manage. 

And as for traveling, OH almost died last year. He has a new lease on life and he wants to travel. And he wants to travel with me. _I_ want to travel with him. We have worked our whole lives and have had few luxuries, and now in our 50's we will soon be able to afford a few flights and trips. We're going to take them. 

And no, it's not that I don't care about the environment. I do more than most, less than I could, but I do my part. We live as off the grid as you can and still be part of modern life. We live in a tiny house in nature, not separated from it and we are deeply aware and in-sync with Mother Nature and have raised our children to be the same.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I don't fly, if I have to travel I go over land. But I rarely travel that great a distance.

I think Harried and Me-again need a good firm smack from the reality bat. I did read they'd been told to stay away from the coronation.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Magyarmum said:


> And apparently she has ambitions to go into US politics.
> 
> President Markle maybe????
> 
> ...


 Though anyone's better than Trump. I wonder what harry will do with the rest of his life?
If it means she will stop banging on about th RF , Im happy for her.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Deguslave said:


> I don't fly, if I have to travel I go over land. But I rarely travel that great a distance.
> 
> I think Harried and Me-again need a good firm smack from the reality bat. *I did read they'd been told to stay away from the coronation.*



I hope they don't, I know his the Kings son and should be there but they have caused enough damage with their stories and lies to get the publics attention they have give up al rights to be there. 

If they turn up, it's only because they'll get the coverage they want.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

kimthecat said:


> Though anyone's better than Trump. I wonder what harry will do with the rest of his life?
> If it means she will stop banging on about th RF , Im happy for her.


Be careful what you wish for, lol.

I can't see it doing much for the 'Special Relationship' if Harry becomes First Lady.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> Though anyone's better than Trump.* I wonder what harry will do with the rest of his life?
> If it means she will stop banging on about th RF , Im happy for her.*



I just wish they'd buy a small island move there and we that we never hear from either of them again.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

See, this is where I do almost feel sorry for them. Almost. 
If they come to the coronation they'll be judged, if they don't come they'll be judged. 
If Meghan were a man going in to politics none of the "house husband" comments would be made. 

One wonders if there's anything they can possibly do to redeem themselves in the public eye.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

O2.0 said:


> One wonders if there's anything they can possibly do to redeem themselves in the public eye.



In a word. NO

The damage they have done can't be repaired.

I'll never forgive either of them.


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

O2.0 said:


> See, this is where I do almost feel sorry for them. Almost.
> If they come to the coronation they'll be judged, if they don't come they'll be judged.
> If Meghan were a man going in to politics none of the "house husband" comments would be made.
> 
> One wonders if there's anything they can possibly do to redeem themselves in the public eye.


I think if they'd stopped everything after the Queen died, they would have been alright. They probably could have patched things up with the family...but at this point, I'm saying it's a no.
It's been too public, and too one sided, with no actual proof to back up some of the claims.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Gemmaa said:


> I think if they'd stopped everything after the Queen died, they would have been alright. They probably could have patched things up with the family...but at this point, I'm saying it's a no.
> It's been too public, and too one sided, with no actual proof to back up some of the claims.



What they have said, can't be unsaid, I don't see how things can be patched up now, too much damage has been done.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I’m reading some of the coverage on the Guardian (only briefly promise, not tempted to watch and frankly appalled they’re doing a ‘live‘ but I’m reading it given other news today )

It is so very tragic. I truthfully don’t know how I feel about this implication of miscarriage and the press. These are such tragic losses … and yes, I’ve been there - wrestling for someone, something to blame and there isn’t. It’s a terrible, unspeakable loss. It sounds like there’s a real weight of grief that I’ve seen with people in desperate need of specific grief support - maybe this is cathartic to them. Who knows? I can’t help think there’s a PR person and chiefs of Netflix counting cash and hope it’s worth it. 

Our press here are awful, the Sun today is terrible - with way to much influence and it shouldn’t take this to reign them back, it won’t. Past crises such as phone tapping, political persuasion over Brexit never have, sadly neither will this. Unfortunately Piers Morgan is now taking them to task on odious Twitter and being his usual egotistical self.


----------



## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)




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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Good to see Andrew with such a low rating. Kind of wondering who the 21% are who approve of him though!


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

O2.0 said:


> See, this is where I do almost feel sorry for them. Almost.
> If they come to the coronation they'll be judged, if they don't come they'll be judged.


yes I agree. I wonder if king Charles will invite them? he's in the same position , does he ask them or not. I dont want them to come because people will focus on them and it should be about the King. i really am looking forward to this once in a life time historic event. I thought the Queen would out live me and never thought I'd get to see it ( all being well).


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

I’ve not watched it, I cannot bring myself to do so. It’s distasteful for me to attack someone who isn’t able to respond, no matter who you are. There’s a lot being made of how the RF aren’t responding, I wonder how could they possibly respond to what’s being said?

The claim that Meghan’s miscarriage was caused by stress doesn’t sit well with me, either. I hope that Tommy’s (the baby loss awareness charity) will discuss this. I feel for all the women who have experienced a miscarriage that may read this and feel their HCP lied to them.

However, despite all this apparent dislike for them, I also remember that the stalwart of our high streets, M&S, renamed themselves Markle & Sparkle the weekend of Harry and Meghan’s wedding. People here in the UK embraced the love, they embraced that Harry was marrying the love of his life, they embraced the joyous wedding. I do very strongly feel that if they want privacy, it’s there for them. They continually say they do - but still they continue to promote themselves to earn vast amounts of money. Harry is a multi-millionaire and if he/they really do want to have a private life, surely they could live the rest of their days on the fortune he has? The opportunity is there. Renounce your titles, take yourselves out of the public eye. Personally I’d have no issue with that at all.

As for whether they will be “forgiven”, who knows? I wonder if there is anyone on the thread who was/is a staunch Diana fan who feels able to say how they feel about Camilla now? After all, she was vilified for being Charles’ lover for many years and causing the issues in the Wales’ marriage - and yet now, she’s reasonably popular. I suspect she’s not popular amongst those that loved Lady Di but that’s speculation on my part.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Mrs Funkin said:


> I’ve not watched it, I cannot bring myself to do so. It’s distasteful for me to attack someone who isn’t able to respond, no matter who you are. There’s a lot being made of how the RF aren’t responding, I wonder how could they possibly respond to what’s being said?
> 
> The claim that Meghan’s miscarriage was caused by stress doesn’t sit well with me, either. I hope that Tommy’s (the baby loss awareness charity) will discuss this. I feel for all the women who have experienced a miscarriage that may read this and feel their HCP lied to them.
> 
> ...


I really think people need to watch it. I don’t take it as an attack on RF they speak very little about them always very respectful of the Queen. 

What they do discuss and is quite fascinating is the media machine and social media troll accounts. Telling Meghan her 3 year old should be put down, death threats. Honestly I couldn’t cope with


This documentary to me is their right to reply whilst they where in the RF awful stuff was written and they couldn’t respond due to the don’t explain don’t complain rule. Now they are. They address Meghan and her dad relationship.

Is this uncomfortable for the RF probably but it’s 2022 surely the machine should change to protect the now children in the family.

Give it a watch @Mrs Funkin some of it is quite heartbreaking. I’m only on episode 5 as a disclaimer they may discuss RF further.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Boxer123 said:


> always very respectful of the Queen.


No they aren't. How can they be when they were filming this when the Duke died and while the Queen was dying of cancer?

They must have broken an old ladies heart


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Boxer123 said:


> respectful of the Queen.


They have no respect for anyone, they are so self centred it's beyond believe.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Mrs Funkin said:


> I’ve not watched it, I cannot bring myself to do so. It’s distasteful for me to attack someone who isn’t able to respond, no matter who you are. There’s a lot being made of how the RF aren’t responding, I wonder how could they possibly respond to what’s being said?
> 
> The claim that Meghan’s miscarriage was caused by stress doesn’t sit well with me, either. I hope that Tommy’s (the baby loss awareness charity) will discuss this. I feel for all the women who have experienced a miscarriage that may read this and feel their HCP lied to them.
> 
> ...


I’ve been asked to provide some supportive words for an independent media piece around miscarriage - still forming them and getting the right approach - but I get the feeling that the charities who provide care and support around baby loss are discreetly on this, if that helps in some way.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

An article from the Economist which IMO gives a balanced view of the whole H&M saga.









Why do Harry and Meghan wind people up?


The couple represent a return to an old norm for the royal family




www.economist.com


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

It would appear from all the footage on the docuseries that H&M have been filming themselves almost constantly, how else would all those occasions when certain people sent them a text or when Meghan suddenly bursts into tears have been recorded or just maybe they were re-enacted or am I being an old cynic here. Who films themselves constantly? Why would you do this? The only answer is that they planned to do this program from very early on in their time together seeing how far back all their footage goes. I now believe that Harry is truly consumed by jealously towards his brother especially now he has slid further down the inheritance ladder. He may claim he would never want to be King, but I’m sure it will have occurred to him that for most of his life if anything had happened to William, he would be next in line. Their moans and groans about how tiny their living accommodation was at Kensington Palace. For heavens sake, they are living in London rent free in a beautiful building where they don’t have pay the heating bill nor contribute to the leasehold fees, my daughter would love that. When they ask they are given a large home newly made over to their specifications, but even that’s not good enough and is regarded as some tiny old retainers cottage on the estate grounds.
I can understand why they wanted to leave and start their own lives elsewhere, but if they profess to hate royalty and how and what it is why do they retain and use their titles, they could just become plain Mr and Mrs, Harry would still be Prince born, but he doesn’t have to use his title. 
I’m sorry, I cannot feel any sympathy or liking for this money grabbing self entitled pair


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> It would appear from all the footage on the docuseries that H&M have been filming themselves almost constantly, how else would all those occasions when certain people sent them a text or when Meghan suddenly bursts into tears have been recorded or just maybe they were re-enacted or am I being an old cynic here. Who films themselves constantly? Why would you do this? The only answer is that they planned to do this program from very early on in their time together seeing how far back all their footage goes. I now believe that Harry is truly consumed by jealously towards his brother especially now he has slid further down the inheritance ladder. He may claim he would never want to be King, but I’m sure it will have occurred to him that for most of his life if anything had happened to William, he would be next in line. Their moans and groans about how tiny their living accommodation was at Kensington Palace. For heavens sake, they are living in London rent free in a beautiful building where they don’t have pay the heating bill nor contribute to the leasehold fees, my daughter would love that. When they ask they are given a large home newly made over to their specifications, but even that’s not good enough and is regarded as some tiny old retainers cottage on the estate grounds.
> I can understand why they wanted to leave and start their own lives elsewhere, but if they profess to hate royalty and how and what it is why do they retain and use their titles, they could just become plain Mr and Mrs, Harry would still be Prince born, but he doesn’t have to use his title.
> I’m sorry, I cannot feel any sympathy or liking for this money grabbing self entitled pair


What really got me too, to back up what they were saying about Nottingham Cotage: Oprah too, she was staggered at the size (or lack of) of their accommodation - I bet she said " Gee, Megs honey, make sure you get this into the series, is this the best they can give you?" Well yes, this and a £30 million wedding.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Siskin said:


> It would appear from all the footage on the docuseries that H&M have been filming themselves almost constantly, how else would all those occasions when certain people sent them a text or when Meghan suddenly bursts into tears have been recorded or just maybe they were re-enacted or am I being an old cynic here. Who films themselves constantly? Why would you do this? The only answer is that they planned to do this program from very early on in their time together seeing how far back all their footage goes. I now believe that Harry is truly consumed by jealously towards his brother especially now he has slid further down the inheritance ladder. He may claim he would never want to be King, but I’m sure it will have occurred to him that for most of his life if anything had happened to William, he would be next in line. Their moans and groans about how tiny their living accommodation was at Kensington Palace. For heavens sake, they are living in London rent free in a beautiful building where they don’t have pay the heating bill nor contribute to the leasehold fees, my daughter would love that. When they ask they are given a large home newly made over to their specifications, but even that’s not good enough and is regarded as some tiny old retainers cottage on the estate grounds.
> I can understand why they wanted to leave and start their own lives elsewhere, but if they profess to hate royalty and how and what it is why do they retain and use their titles, they could just become plain Mr and Mrs, Harry would still be Prince born, but he doesn’t have to use his title.
> I’m sorry, I cannot feel any sympathy or liking for this money grabbing self entitled pair


You might like to watch this discussion on Spectator TV with Gyles Brandreth the Queen's biographer which gives quite an insight about how she felt towards Meghan.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Again, perception…. I didn’t take their comments about the cottage as moaning or groaning …. more showing they weren’t as spoiled or demanding as they were being made out to be 🙄


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Magyarmum said:


> You might like to watch this discussion on Spectator TV with Gyles Brandreth the Queen's biographer which gives quite an insight about how she felt towards Meghan.


That was very good. I like Giles makes me laugh constantly. It was very interesting about the queen


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Lurcherlad said:


> Again, perception…. I didn’t take their comments about the cottage as moaning or groaning …. more showing they weren’t as spoiled or demanding as they were being made out to be 🙄


I didn't take it as complaining either. Didn't they even say how special a time that was? 

I did find how much they had filmed a bit odd, but then a lot of people, especially their age and younger do that. It is the age of the smart phone and that's just what people do. 

I haven't gotten to the part where she talks about her miscarriage yet (honestly I fell asleep watching LOL) but if she does indeed blame it on stress hopefully that will be addressed. Too many women blame themselves for their miscarriages as it is, and many women don't have the luxury of reducing the stressors in their lives


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Not a bad place to live






Inside Prince Harry and Meghan Markle’s $15m California mansion | loveproperty.com


Since stepping back from official duties and making America their home, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle live in a beautiful mansion in Montecito, Santa Barbara. Click or scroll on and let's explore the amazing home where they are raising Lilibet and Archie...




www.loveproperty.com


----------



## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Magyarmum said:


> An article from the Economist which IMO gives a balanced view of the whole H&M saga.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would need to subscribe to read this article


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Okay, finished and stayed awake  
One thing I don't understand is the whole witness statement from someone who worked for Prince William's office? What was that all about? I don't understand the implications or why it's such a big deal. There was the disclaimer at the end and it just confused me even more. Can anyone explain what all of that means? The voluntary witness statement and how it was neutral or not neutral and why they're so angry with William about it? 

The miscarriage part wasn't as bad as I had anticipated based on the headlines. Meghan wasn't even the one who said it, it was Harry and he said there's obviously no way of knowing, but that in his mind, he blames the Mail. Which hit me as fair and reasonable. 

I didn't find them as annoying as I thought I would, I found them human. Albeit it ridiculously privileged and very lacking in self-awareness of that privilege. The forced format constantly holding Meghan up as a symbol of the black and brown people of the Commonwealth felt like a lot of trying way too hard. You can mention racism as a factor without trying to trump it all up so much and it would have made for a more effective message IMO. 

They both struck me as rather immature. I don't mean that in a disparaging way, more like I might look at a teenager with understanding that they still have some growing up to do. When she said she tried so hard and still doesn't fit in, that's an immature view. It's not the outside world and people outside of yourself who make you feel like you fit in, that's your own self-acceptance that has to grow to where you understand that fitting in is something _you_ decide, not others. I do hope she gets to the point of realizing that because that does bring some peace. 

Anyway, it wasn't terrible, it wasn't great. It wasn't a waste of time, I'm fascinated by behavior in any species - humans included, and I did find it interesting from that perspective. I can't say my views have changed much. I was pretty neutral about them before, the royals are kind of a curiosity with not any emotional investment for me. 
Just as a fellow human I hope they do manage to mend some of the relationships they've lost along the way.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

SbanR said:


> I would need to subscribe to read this article


How strange! I don't subscribe to the Economist but often read their articles.


----------



## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Magyarmum said:


> How strange! I don't subscribe to the Economist but often read their articles.


Must be my tablet. 
Will try my phone later


----------



## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

@Magyarmum this is what I get


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

SbanR said:


> @Magyarmum this is what I get
> View attachment 581082


Maybe they've changed their policy and you now have to pay for anything you want to read? If I remember rightly when I first started reading the online Economist, you could read 3 articles a month free. I'm now confused (not difficult in my case)


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

This is Jeremy Clarkson in the Sunday Times. This was allowed to be published by his editors. Frankly the man has a problem and needs some therapy like Morgan but that it's given ink or online space, one has to wonder what the media is coming too and who on earth reads this cr*p.

CORRECTION - it's The Sun. Apologies... errrr... to Murdoch  (Actually does he own the Scum?)


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

@MollySmith have you ever seen the "mean tweets" series? Where celebrities read mean tweets about them? 
There is a culture of meanness particularly on twitter that affects ALL celebrities. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying any well-known celebrity is going to get a lot of this. Meghan is not unique in that way.





What about JK Rowling? She got not only meanness but outright threats to her life and to her family and it was seen as acceptable or at least understandable. 
None of it is acceptable, but I don't understand why in Meghan's case we see it as a problem but when someone like JK Rowling gets attacked on social media it's not.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> @MollySmith have you ever seen the "mean tweets" series? Where celebrities read mean tweets about them?
> There is a culture of meanness particularly on twitter that affects ALL celebrities. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying any well-known celebrity is going to get a lot of this. Meghan is not unique in that way.
> 
> 
> ...



The quote is from a paper not Twitter. I said The Times and was amazed it was their editorial policy. That was my viewpoint, if a paper that's not a red top tabloid takes that view, it's pretty grim (for anyone not just the Sussex's)

It's actually The Sun which makes more sense in context as that's its style of reporting - standard fair sadly. I realise that won't be familiar to you there, but it's only relatively recently they've stopped publishing topless women on page 3. _That_ sort of paper.


(Twitter is a cess pit unless well tamed which I did, I only use it for business and have pulled the account due to Musk. It's a shame as it has been good to find freelance communities, business advice and networks for me and many others. I would never use it for personal.)


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

This was the documentary I was looking for, it's fascinating and disturbing on how much influence the Murdoch Empire has on our media, particularly the phone hacking scandal and the awful breach of privacy for Mille Dowler's family. 









The Rise of the Murdoch Dynasty


The incredible story of Rupert Murdoch’s influence on world events.




www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

MollySmith said:


> it's only relatively recently they've stopped publishing topless women on page 3. _That_ sort of paper


I had to look that up, cos I felt it was _ages_ ago
How shocked was I that it only stopped in 2015
I can safely say I have never brought a copy of the sun
But
I remember my dad doing so
And, cos I'm old
The eras of Sam fox, Linda lusadi and the force that became Jordan ( aka Katie price)
All of which, I believe, started their topless careers when just 16!


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

mrs phas said:


> I had to look that up, cos I felt it was _ages_ ago
> How shocked was I that it only stopped in 2015
> I can safely say I have never brought a copy of the sun
> But
> ...


I think my dad used to buy it on holidays....and yes I was so surprised it was only in 2015 too!


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

MollySmith said:


> This is Jeremy Clarkson in the Sunday Times. This was allowed to be published by his editors. Frankly the man has a problem and needs some therapy like Morgan but that it's given ink or online space, one has to wonder what the media is coming too and who on earth reads this cr*p.
> 
> CORRECTION - it's The Sun. Apologies... errrr... to Murdoch  (Actually does he own the Scum?)
> 
> ...


His daughter is an influencer she does light touch feminism and body confidence whilst trying to flog expensive toilet rolls. She has done a whole post on the awful treatment of Meghan whilst completely ignoring any comments about her dad being a part of it. Honestly it’s so fascinating.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

MollySmith said:


> This is Jeremy Clarkson in the Sunday Times. This was allowed to be published by his editors. Frankly the man has a problem and needs some therapy like Morgan but that it's given ink or online space, one has to wonder what the media is coming too and who on earth reads this cr*p.
> 
> CORRECTION - it's The Sun. Apologies... errrr... to Murdoch  (Actually does he own the Scum?)
> 
> ...


Yup! Murdoch owns The Sun!

Interestingly, H&M are taking Rebekah Brooks ofThe Daily Mail, and also if I'm correct The Sun and The Mirror to court.

Rebekah Brooks was heavily involved in the court case that brought about the demise of The News of the (Screws) World in 2015.

Read all about it!









Harry and Meghan’s fight with tabloid bosses rivals the one with royals


Unmentioned in Netflix series is how UK media figures could be dragged into legal proceedings




www.theguardian.com


----------



## Emlar (Sep 29, 2020)

I'm honestly quite shocked at the vitriol directed to Harry and Megan. Maybe it's because I'm a bit ambivalent to the Royal Family as a whole, but I really don't see what is quite so bad about the two of them which sets them so massively apart from others.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Emlar said:


> I'm honestly quite shocked at the vitriol directed to Harry and Megan. Maybe it's because I'm a bit ambivalent to the Royal Family as a whole, but I really don't see what is quite so bad about the two of them which sets them so massively apart from others.


Because they decided to leave the family for a quiet life and then decided try and rip the family apart with statements they can't prove. 

All families have problems but for them to tell the world is unforgivable.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

MollySmith said:


> The quote is from a paper not Twitter.


Does it matter where the quote is from? My point still stands, lots of celebrities get ridiculous hate from all sorts of angles. Anne Hathaway won an Oscar and somehow became public enemy #1. It may not have been as glaring in the UK, but here you couldn't get away from the "Hathahate" it was everywhere. I can't imagine what it was like for her. 

So my point still stands. There is a lot of meanness and outright abuse directed towards all sorts of celebrities for no apparent reason. Usually towards women, but not always. 
Meghan is not unique that way. This narrative that what happened to her was unprecedented, how the media and public opinion turned on her was unprecedented - that's an exaggeration at best. 

And no, it's never okay to target anyone like that. 
Which was my other point - why is there not equal outrage when someone like JK Rowling is targeted? Or even Anne Hathaway, or Taylor Swift?


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

The headlines today are full of the information that ''H and M demand to meet Charles to receive their apology''. Have not yet read any of them, but loads of headlines. If they don't receive one, they will stamp their feet and refuse to attend the coronation. Boo hoo. Going to miss them. 
Now, it strikes me that, considering how much they (allegedly) hate the newspapers, they will, strangely enough, do any damned thing to stay in them. How do the papers know this (not just the tabloids)? They can only know because the deadly duo have told someone, and in view of the fact they *really honestly* hate publicity, it would make sense only to tell someone whose loyalty and discretion they could totally trust. But no, they have made it known to someone they know will repeat it and that is how they stay relevant in their opinion, by staying in the papers they hate with a vengeance. The best way to deal with this pair is for all the papers to make a pact never to mention their names so we don't see or hear anything about them. I think being ignored would be unbearable for them. 
I hated the way also that H kept comparing M to Diana - now they are even saying the daughter looks like Diana.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

As say they hate the press for what they did to Diana and all the insults they say have been printed against Meghan but they are happily to use them to trash his family. 

They can't live unless they are in the limelight. 

I can't say how much I dislike Harry and her and I really like him at once.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Boxer123 said:


> His daughter is an influencer she does light touch feminism and body confidence whilst trying to flog expensive toilet rolls. She has done a whole post on the awful treatment of Meghan whilst completely ignoring any comments about her dad being a part of it. Honestly it’s so fascinating.


Her Dad was joking and she probably knows this.
Honestly, both OH and myself laughed at it. Though he's gone a bit far this time because as well as those up in arms about poor Megan, he's stoking hate against her, with those that cannot see it for the joke it is and that is wrong.
It should never have been printed. It should have been kept between himself and those that get him and his weird humour


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

rona said:


> Her Dad was joking and she probably knows this.
> Honestly, both OH and myself laughed at it. Though he's gone a bit far this time because as well as those up in arms about poor Megan, he's stoking hate against her, with those that cannot see it for the joke it is and that is wrong.
> It should never have been printed. It should have been kept between himself and those that get him and his weird humour


Or maybe his daughter doesn’t since she put out a statement condemning what he wrote.

Honestly I am surprised that anyone, regardless of views about Meghan, would find what Clarkson has written as funny.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Psygon said:


> Or maybe his daughter doesn’t since she put out a statement condemning what he wrote.
> 
> Honestly I am surprised that anyone, regardless of views about Meghan, would find what Clarkson has written as funny.


I don't think the statement was just about him was it, it was more a general statement about the press?

I find Clarkson very funny most of the time. I have a weird sense of humour. 
I find Family guy funny and that is very near the knuckle, sometimes even past it


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

rona said:


> Her Dad was joking and she probably knows this.
> Honestly, both OH and myself laughed at it. Though he's gone a bit far this time because as well as those up in arms about poor Megan, he's stoking hate against her, with those that cannot see it for the joke it is and that is wrong.
> It should never have been printed. It should have been kept between himself and those that get him and his weird humour


She’s has released another statement saying she does not in anyway agree with it.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Boxer123 said:


> She’s has released another statement saying she does not in anyway agree with it.


Where?


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Happy Paws2 said:


> As say they hate the press for what they did to Diana and all the insults they say have been printed against Meghan but they are happily to use them to trash his family.
> 
> They can't live unless they are in the limelight.
> 
> I can't say how much I dislike Harry and her and I really like him at





rona said:


> Where?


She is an influencer she has her own popular page. She has spoken a lot about the treatment of Meghan in the media. This is her business I don’t follow her but she is em Clarkson. Her Dad has damaged her brand with this. 

@O2.0 i don’t think anyone is say it’s ok for other celebs it’s just the thread is about them. I mentioned Caroline Flack earlier in the thread. I think unfortunately the internet fuels hate. I find it shocking anyone would think Clarksons comment is appropriate. It is a terrifying time to be a celebrity.


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

rona said:


> Where?


On Instagram.








Also to add in my opinion the humour in family guy and an article in a national newspaper suggesting a celebrity be subjected to what amounts to sexual violence are pretty different types of humour… maybe that’s just me not seeing the funny side….


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

He got it from game of thrones, which is on sky tv. Shown in video form. No one thought that was bad because it was game of thrones and everyone (supposedly) likes it


----------



## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I just wonder what next with H and M. Since going to the States supposedly to try to make their lives better they seem to be swept up in the negative. The interview, book, series - it’s constant moaning, complaining, acting the victim and focussing on the negative. 

Considering they are supposed to be ambassadors for mental health they are not exactly setting a good example apart from wallowing in self pity. 

What a sad and depressing way to live.


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

rona said:


> He got it from game of thrones, which is on sky tv. Shown in video form. No one thought that was bad because it was game of thrones and everyone (supposedly) likes it


Hmm I’m pretty sure it was described as shocking at the time, and the two actors involved have since spoken out about how it made them feel. It’s also based on a real life event from the Middle Ages… pretty sure views on women have changed somewhat since then… I also think that there was commentary saying that the point of the scene in Game of thrones was to expose the double standards and misogyny directed towards women (after all the reason this happened to her had nothing to do with most of the crimes she’d committed - but the fact she’d committed adultery).

regardless of the origin of the scene, taking it out of context and using it as a way to express hatred for someone still isn’t ok …


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Psygon said:


> regardless of the origin of the scene, taking it out of context and using it as a way to express hatred for someone still isn’t ok …


As I said in my first post about this. It's not ok

Funny how only part of what I write is read and used


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> His daughter is an influencer she does light touch feminism and body confidence whilst trying to flog expensive toilet rolls. She has done a whole post on the awful treatment of Meghan whilst completely ignoring any comments about her dad being a part of it. Honestly it’s so fascinating.


Goodness, another interesting family dinner on 25th….! It does make one feel very grateful to not be famous or royal.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> Does it matter where the quote is from? My point still stands, lots of celebrities get ridiculous hate from all sorts of angles. Anne Hathaway won an Oscar and somehow became public enemy #1. It may not have been as glaring in the UK, but here you couldn't get away from the "Hathahate" it was everywhere. I can't imagine what it was like for her.
> 
> So my point still stands. There is a lot of meanness and outright abuse directed towards all sorts of celebrities for no apparent reason. Usually towards women, but not always.
> Meghan is not unique that way. This narrative that what happened to her was unprecedented, how the media and public opinion turned on her was unprecedented - that's an exaggeration at best.
> ...


I haven‘t disagreed with your point at all.

I have no comment to make on Rowling.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rona said:


> I don't think the statement was just about him was it, it was more a general statement about the press?
> 
> I find Clarkson very funny most of the time. I have a weird sense of humour.
> I find Family guy funny and that is very near the knuckle, sometimes even past it


Family Guy,  I get your point. he was taking the pee but to be honest I think it backfired.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> @O2.0 i don’t think anyone is say it’s ok for other celebs it’s just the thread is about them.


Unfortunately I very clearly remember a poster on here saying something like "she should learn not to say those things" or something to that effect when Rowling received death threats for supporting Salman Rushdie and the post also got several likes


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Unfortunately I very clearly remember a poster on here saying something like "she should learn not to say those things" or something to that effect when Rowling received death threats for supporting Salman Rushdie and the post also got several likes


There has been similar in this thread, comments such as Meghan being deserving of the abuse (if I am remembering correctly, and I may not be… it’s a long thread!).

I don’t think anyone is deserving of the level of abuse that gets directed at individuals online. And no Meghan isn’t unique in the level and volume of abuse she has received. It may be different in how normalised it’s become with her that The Sun thinks it’s ok to run the Jeremy Clarkson article. I don’t know if that’s happened to other celebrities? To be honest I scrolled through a few tweets where people were saying Jeremy clarkson should die for what he’d written. That’s also not ok. Call him out… report him to ipso… don’t threaten to kill him. It’s hardly validating an argument that posting this kind of stuff is not ok. 

But everyone loves scandal and outrage apparently, so while the public are clicking on and sharing all the vitriol it won’t stop for any of the people that get targetted


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Psygon said:


> There has been similar in this thread,


Yes, I agree  None of it is okay...


----------



## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Someone's had his knuckles rapped good and hard
Whomever cleared such vitriol for publishing needs a slap up the side of reality too

BBC News - Jeremy Clarkson says he is 'horrified' over Meghan column
Jeremy Clarkson says he is 'horrified' over Meghan column


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

mrs phas said:


> Someone's had his knuckles rapped good and hard
> Whomever cleared such vitriol for publishing needs a slap up the side of reality too
> 
> BBC News - Jeremy Clarkson says he is 'horrified' over Meghan column
> Jeremy Clarkson says he is 'horrified' over Meghan column


Yeah sure he is. Got him noticed again didn't it, and just as news of his new series release date is publicised


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

mrs phas said:


> Someone's had his knuckles rapped good and hard
> Whomever cleared such vitriol for publishing needs a slap up the side of reality too
> 
> BBC News - Jeremy Clarkson says he is 'horrified' over Meghan column
> Jeremy Clarkson says he is 'horrified' over Meghan column


Translated as... 'it's not me, it's you' He assumed it wouldn’t get the level of pushback it has. It wasn’t an off-hand comment, it was a national newspaper column.

Cold War Steve nailed it perfectly.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

On bbc news site:

On Monday, Sturgeon told BBC Scotland: "The overwhelming emotion I have for men like Jeremy Clarkson is pity.
"I can't imagine what it must be like to be so consumed and distorted by hate of other people, and in his case it appears women in particular, that you end up writing that toxic, vile abuse."
She added: "Freedom of speech is really important and one of the values all of us cherish. But all of us, as we exercise those important rights, have to behave with a degree of responsibility."

Exactly.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

MollySmith said:


> Translated as... 'it's not me, it's you' He assumed it wouldn’t get the level of pushback it has. It wasn’t an off-hand comment, it was a national newspaper column.
> 
> Cold War Steve nailed it perfectly.
> 
> View attachment 581170


So accurate even before she left the RF Piers Morgan was ranting about her everyday because she had ceased contact with her.

Would Clarkson write about a man like this I wonder ?


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Boxer123 said:


> Would Clarkson write about a man like this I wonder ?


Yes, he doesn't care who he insults


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> So accurate even before she left the RF Piers Morgan was ranting about her everyday because she had ceased contact with her.
> 
> Would Clarkson write about a man like this I wonder ?


Probably
Jeremy Clarkson 'punch': Top Gear episodes to be dropped


----------



## Emlar (Sep 29, 2020)

I don't think it's okay to be that vile about anyone really. Especially someone you don't know and hasn't actually done anything all that bad. Like I said before, I could never be a 'celebrity' and have my every move analysed. I'd be a crumbling wreck by day 2!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

The other problem is that the press self-regulator IPSO can't really do much about it as The Sun are part of their body. Their incompetent legislation and the Government's failure to address is ongoing, but then again Boris Johnson also has a past in insulting women, and ethnicities in his newspaper column in I think, the Spectator? (and got away with it as a 'brand' for much the same reasons as Clarkson has) so why would it.

There is a petition about The Sun set up by Hacked Off who were one of the many who brought the phone hacking scandal to light and campaign for the reform of self regulation press








Tell the Government to take press misogyny seriously


Under IPSO, the press can (and are) getting away with almost anything.




hackinginquiry.org


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

It might be a generation thing but I dont get why Meghan filmed herself crying etc and exposed herself to millions of people. I could understand if she was being interviewed by Oprah and broke down but to set herself up in her own home. I find it strange, I would be too embarrassed to show anything like that.


ETA I dont have Netfix. I have only seen clips on the news and Twitter.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> It might be a generation thing but I dont get why Meghan filmed herself crying etc and exposed herself to millions of people. I could understand if she was being interviewed by Oprah and broke down but to set herself up in her own home. I find it strange, I would be too embarrassed to show anything like that.



She's an actress isn't she...


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I cried today in public today and I was so embarrassed . I was waiting for a blood test and they were showing the end of A dogs purpose on the TV in the waiting room .


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> I cried today in public today and I was so embarrassed . I was waiting for a blood test and they were showing the end of A dogs purpose on the TV in the waiting room .


Oh Bless you


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> I cried today in public today and I was so embarrassed . I was waiting for a blood test and they were showing the end of A dogs purpose on the TV in the waiting room .


Your as bad as my OH..........he cries at loads 

Comes from living with me don't ya know


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

kimthecat said:


> I cried today in public today and I was so embarrassed . I was waiting for a blood test and they were showing the end of A dogs purpose on the TV in the waiting room .


Ah no! What a terrible film for a public place!
My OH thought I'd enjoy it...I happy/sad sobbed throughout the whole thing 🙈 

I'm always suspicious of people who don't ugly cry and turn bright red  
I can't imagine letting myself be filmed when crying!


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Gemmaa said:


> I'm always suspicious of people who don't ugly cry and turn bright red
> I can't imagine letting myself be filmed when crying!


and snotty noses.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Meghan didn’t want to play second fiddle to Kate. 
Kate is a future Queen and Meghan is not no matter how much she doesn’t like it.

If they wanted out then should not seek profits from their connections with Royal Family but just keep out of public eye.
Just greedy and rather pathetic.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> It might be a generation thing but I dont get why Meghan filmed herself crying etc and exposed herself to millions of people. I could understand if she was being interviewed by Oprah and broke down but to set herself up in her own home. I find it strange, I would be too embarrassed to show anything like that.
> 
> 
> ETA I dont have Netfix. I have only seen clips on the news and Twitter.


Yes, everything seems so contrived - she is quoted, though, as saying that it's not difficult to cry on cue if you need to in a film.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Hopefully now they have done their, feel sorry for us documentary and published his tell all book, maybe we won't here from them again, well one can always hope.


----------



## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Hopefully now they have done their, feel sorry for us documentary and published his tell all book, maybe we won't here from them again, well one can always hope.


To me, they seem to be hooked on fame and being 'seen' so I doubt very much if we have seen the last of this awful pair. But they are becoming a one trick pony in terms of their snivelling 'life is awful and everyone is nasty to us, and we are forced to live in a Hollywood mansion!' rhetoric.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Deguslave said:


> To me, they seem to be hooked on fame and being 'seen' so I doubt very much if we have seen the last of this awful pair. But they are becoming a one trick pony in terms of their snivelling 'life is awful and everyone is nasty to us, and we are forced to live in a Hollywood mansion!' rhetoric.


Everything they say, do or write is a complete and utter whingefest, isn't it! Plus the inability of either of the peevish pair to realise what totally privileged lives they lead.


Happy Paws2 said:


> maybe we won't here from them again


Don't hold your breath! His book is due out in days, more vapid tripe, papers bound to be full of them again.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Calvine said:


> Everything they say, do or write is a complete and utter whingefest, isn't it! Plus the inability of either of the peevish pair to realise what totally privileged lives they lead.
> 
> Don't hold your breath! His book is due out in days, more vapid tripe, papers bound to be full of them again.



Every time I hear anything about those two, they are starting to give me a headache.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Every time I hear anything about those two, they are starting to give me a headache.


This is going to make your day, @Happy Paws2. Rumour has it (OK, well, DM has it) that Meghan is planning to write her own memoirs! Happy New Year!


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Calvine said:


> This is going to make your day, @Happy Paws2. Rumour has it (OK, well, DM has it) that Meghan is planning to write her own memoirs! Happy New Year!


I can't wait


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Calvine said:


> This is going to make your day, @Happy Paws2. Rumour has it (OK, well, DM has it) that Meghan is planning to write her own memoirs! Happy New Year!


Oh good, I hope its a nice thick one, I can then pick it up cheap at the charity shop and finally have something to shove under the leg of my wobbly bookcase.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Deguslave said:


> Oh good, I hope its a nice thick one, I can then pick it up cheap at the charity shop and finally have something to shove under the leg of my wobbly bookcase.


Best place for it.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

He wishes......

Prince Harry has said "I would like to get my father back, I would like to have my brother back" in an interview ahead of the release of his book Spare.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Happy Paws2 said:


> He wishes......
> 
> Prince Harry has said "I would like to get my father back, I would like to have my brother back" in an interview ahead of the release of his book Spare.


He should have thought of that before.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I’ve heard that Meghan has been voted the most annoying person in the US 2022. Harry came second, both beat Kanye West


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Siskin said:


> I’ve heard that Meghan has been voted the most annoying person in the US 2022. Harry came second, both beat Kanye West


Just found this,,,,


Prince Harry his wife Meghan Markle have reportedly topped the list of ‘Celebrities You’re Sick of in 2022'.

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, who stepped down as senior working royal in 2020, have been named the most annoying celebrities of 2022.

The two snagged a spot on Ranker's recently released ‘Celebrities You’re Sick of in 2022', with Harry leading the list of figures readers have reportedly grown weary of.


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Just popping in to say I still don't get anything in my social media about either of them, this is still the only place online where I see the names Harry and Meghan show up.

But I did get this lovely video suggestion about the Queen Consort at Battersea


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

O2.0 said:


> But I did get this lovely video suggestion about the Queen Consort at Battersea



Lovely isn't it, watched on TV just before Christmas.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

O2.0 said:


> Just popping in to say I still don't get anything in my social media about either of them, this is still the only place online where I see the names Harry and Meghan show up.
> 
> But I did get this lovely video suggestion about the Queen Consort at Battersea


You obviously don't watch CNN then because their names pop up regularly in the news. 👀 👀 👀


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> He wishes......
> 
> Prince Harry has said "I would like to get my father back, I would like to have my brother back" in an interview ahead of the release of his book Spare.


He and his wife really are in denial, aren't they? They have convinced themselves that they (in their mega-million dollar mansion) are victims; none of it is their fault. This really is their life now - being ''victims'' and spouting a load of rubbish about who is to blame (ie anyone except themselves).


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Magyarmum said:


> You obviously don't watch CNN then because their names pop up regularly in the news. 👀 👀 👀


No we don't have TV. I mean, we do have a TV and we have netflix and amazon prime on it, but I don't watch the news on TV. In fact about this time last year I stopped trying to stay on top of the "news" at all - of any kind. I find my life much more peaceful that way  

I was watching this video the other day about Gen X (I am one) and how when we grew up, we went about our daily lives and if something was happening in the world we found out about it on the evening news - 30 minutes worth or read about it the next day in the newspaper and I think in many ways were were much better off that way.


----------



## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I think it's important to stay up to date with the news, both the good and bad. I go to news web sites regularly and to local news sites. I do like the local news TV station here and their bloopers are amusing. lol They have a youtube channel as well.

There are situations where you can end up being rude or insensitive towards people through the ignorance of current events. I have little interest in news about celebrities or the royal family though.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

DogLover1981 said:


> There are situations where you can end up being rude or insensitive towards people through the ignorance of current events.


LOL and this comment could be rude and insensitive because you don't know why I stopped keeping up with the news. But I'm not taking it personally because it would be ridiculous of me to expect you to know what was going on in my life a year ago. 

Likewise I'm not going to get my panties in a wad if someone doesn't know that Kanye West or whatever he's being called these days made some atrociously antisemitic comments among other crazy rants and to call Harry and Meghan more annoying than him could also be considered rather insensitive considering the level of hate Kanye West spews. 
But again, it would be rather silly of me to expect someone not involved at all with pop culture and not on this side of the pond to be au fait with his rhetoric. 

BTW, I don't live under a rock as you can see. So just because I don't watch TV and don't make an effort to keep up with everything the "media" deems important, doesn't mean I'm ignorant


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

O2.0 said:


> No we don't have TV. I mean, we do have a TV and we have netflix and amazon prime on it, but I don't watch the news on TV. In fact about this time last year I stopped trying to stay on top of the "news" at all - of any kind. I find my life much more peaceful that way
> 
> I was watching this video the other day about Gen X (I am one) and how when we grew up, we went about our daily lives and if something was happening in the world we found out about it on the evening news - 30 minutes worth or read about it the next day i n the newspaper and I think in many ways were were much better off that way.


I'm considered a Post War Generation despite the fact that I lived through all but one day of WW2 and remember much of it. We only had the radio or newspapers to keep us informed, no TV or mobile phones. My family didn't have a telephone until 1950. 

Although I regularly watch the news on TV or radio and read several online newspapers from various countries, I don't have amazon or Netflix. and apart from the occasional film I mainly watch documentaries. 

I certainly don't listen to the news, with the intention of "keeping on top" of it. I do it out of a general interest in what is happening in the rest of the world. I hope by my age I've learnt how to discriminate between what is important and what is not. By the way I do know who Kanye West is, and like many of my fellow huimans do enjoy reading a bit of scandal now and again - all taken with a very large pinch of salt!😆 

I also use the information as a source for researching topics I might otherwise have never thought of. Could be anything from learning more about quantum physics to the history of a country or even just new cooking recipes. It's fun!


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

DogLover1981 said:


> I think it's important to stay up to date with the news, both the good and bad. I go to news web sites regularly and to local news sites. I do like the local news TV station here and their bloopers are amusing. lol They have a youtube channel as well.
> 
> *There are situations where you can end up being rude or insensitive towards people through the ignorance of current events. I have little interest in news about celebrities or the royal family though.*


Something that can be important if like me you live in a another country to your own and are not always "au courant" with their culture and way of life.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Magyarmum said:


> Something that can be important if like me you live in a another country to your own and are not always "au courant" with their culture and way of life.


I spent 2 years where the only TV you could watch was if it was sent as a video. You only got post once a week and I didn’t have access to newspapers. It was strange coming home as I missed loads. 

I have no interest in the lives of ‘famous’ people and can’t believe it’s on the front page of newspapers. I think they need to review the meaning of ‘news’…


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Re H&M I think most of the population just aren't interested. It's the news agencies hyping it up.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

A new series of Midsummer Murders should start on Sunday, well NO it's not, it's "Harry the Interview" for an hour and forty mins. so get the popcorn in, I don't think.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

He has a new life in sunny California with his wife and two lovely children and they live in a mansion, He needs to let go and move on .


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

The news today is that the book says he and Prince William had a fight. From the view of someone who works in design and often in publishing... I'm more curious about the permission to publish. It has me (gods....!) tempted to buy the book to see how this will pan out with legals. Depending on _how_ it's said, there could be grounds for law suit if it's not accurate or defamatory to character.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I think he's banking on the fact that the royal family doesn't take legal action.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

And he says he wants his father and brother back


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

MollySmith said:


> The news today is that the book says he and Prince William had a fight. From the view of someone who works in design and often in publishing... I'm more curious about the permission to publish. It has me (gods....!) tempted to buy the book to see how this will pan out with legals. Depending on _how_ it's said, there could be grounds for law suit if it's not accurate or defamatory to character.


2nd hand maybe? So at least he won’t get the royalties? (Although World of Books are giving some royalties to authors).






SbanR said:


> And he says he wants his father and brother back


He must be delusional if he thinks he can say the things he’s said about his family, and still expect to have them back.

But it contradicts the claim that Wills attacked him. If my brother attacked me, I’d not want anything to do with him.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

SbanR said:


> And he says he wants his father and brother back



Well his going about it the wrong way, I think his burnt his bridges now.


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Apparently "Willy and Kate" told him to wear the Nazi outfit.
"Should I wear a Nazi uniform?" seems like a question no one needs to ask, as the answer is soooooo obvious!


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

LinznMilly said:


> But it contradicts the claim that Wills attacked him. If my brother attacked me, I’d not want anything to do with him.


All we are getting is so one sided, he knows they wont answer back, so he can tell what lies he likes and expect us to believe him. 

Well I for one don't believe one word he or she says anymore.

I just think he is jealous of William and doesn't like the idea that William will be King and he'll just be a nobody.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> 2nd hand maybe? So at least he won’t get the royalties? (Although World of Books are giving some royalties to authors).
> 
> He must be delusional if he thinks he can say the things he’s said about his family, and still expect to have them back.
> 
> But it contradicts the claim that Wills attacked him. If my brother attacked me, I’d not want anything to do with him.


As the mother of two sons close together in age mine often threatened to murder each other. and sometimes had the occasional punch up. And naturally, it was always the other one's fault. The rest of the time they were thick as thieves!

When they were having a go at each other I'd stand between them and tell them if they wanted to kill each other then they'd have to kill me first because I wasn't moving!


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Gemmaa said:


> Apparently "Willy and Kate" told him to wear the Nazi outfit.
> "Should I wear a Nazi uniform?" seems like a question no one needs to ask, as the answer is soooooo obvious!


I read this claim earlier and was just 🙄
I suppose it’s their fault Harry called his fellow servicemen ‘p***’ and ‘*******’ too

Edit - censored the first slur myself, the second was the forum. Anyway we know what he said


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I think its becoming apparent that H&M blame everyone for everything and never consider that they may possibly be wrong in the slightest, a very narcissistic view.

The royals unofficial viewpoint is ‘Never complain, never explain‘, whereas the Sussex’s seems to have become ‘Always complain, alway explain‘

My husband has told me over the years that he and his brother fought like cat and dog when younger, it was many years later before they started to get on well


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Just seen this.....

Prince Harry: The door's always open, the ball is in their court.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

I wonder what the Queen would have made of all this? When the book was started, the Queen was still alive and could still be (her mother lived to be 101, remember). Or, once she had died, did they edit and tweak it to make it more ''explosive''?


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Calvine said:


> I wonder what the Queen would have made of all this? When the book was started, the Queen was still alive and could still be (her mother lived to be 101, remember). *Or, once she had died, did they edit and tweak it to make it more ''explosive''?*



I wouldn't put that past him.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> 2nd hand maybe? So at least he won’t get the royalties? (Although World of Books are giving some royalties to authors).


The permission allows the author to write about someone and is a legal requirement in the editorial and development stage. It's nothing to with royalties but the content. Every book will have a disclaimer on the imprint page. For autobiographies it's something like _This work depicts actual events in the life of the author as truthfully as recollection permits. While all persons within are actual individuals, names and identifying characteristics have been changed to respect their privacy. _So it's a bit dubious and I wonder how that works, though the publishers will have legal cover and insurance.

His contract with the publisher will determine royalty payment or up front fee for the writing of the manuscript.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Harry has elevated hypocrisy to an absolute art form.

He has not a good word to say for his family, whines constantly about how dreadful his existence as part of it was, says repeatedly how he had to "get his Wife out", yet is making a living out of them and using his title to make yet more money.

What are he and Meghan going to do when the World becomes bored and no longer wants to hear their incessant whining and "woe is us" tales?

How will they make a living?

I've said this before, but, I'll ask it again. If all of this is not about money, then what are the Sussexes hoping to achieve? What good will all their 'dishing the dirt' do?

He's already lost his family and his status, will he not be content until he's lost everything?








2


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

Maybe he feels hard done by but why wash your dirty linen in public. Surely if he needs to speak to his family and sort it out with them rather than feed into the media and give them more gossip to publish. Money maybe....


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

How many times has Harry spoken out against the media, saying he had to protect his Wife and this is why they went to America? Many times.

So, what is all this courting publicity and notoriety about?

Giving controversial interviews on chat shows, making a series with Netflix and writing books, all about what demons the Royal Family are, doesn't seem to be a rational course of action from a couple who, apparently, crave privacy.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

One of the things Harry talks about in the book is his time in the army, this is allegedly at the moment as this is supposed to have been translated from the Spanish copy of the book which was accidentally released early.
He has said he killed 25 of the enemy during his time in Afghanistan. The social media in Afghanistan and in similar countries are now rife with angry Muslims calling for his death. How absolutely stupid to do this, if he thought he was in danger before he has now made things horrendously worse and also perhaps put the RF in the firing line too. What an idiot.


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Siskin said:


> He has said he killed 25 of the enemy during his time in Afghanistan. The social media in Afghanistan and in similar countries are now rife with angry Muslims calling for his death. How absolutely stupid to do this, if he thought he was in danger before he has now made things horrendously worse


Could he have done that to provoke a reaction, as a means of getting the protection that he resented losing?


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, the only way he can get protection for which he doesn't have to pay is through the grace of King Charles and Prince William.

He isn't doing much to gain their sympathy and get what he wants.

I'm actually really beginning to wonder what Harry is thinking. He's beginning to really alienate all those who previously loved him.

I believe everyone, however tolerant, has their breaking point and having to listen to all of his slurs and accusations must be pushing his family perilously close to theirs.

In my opinion, what Harry needs to do is stop right now this campaign he's waging against his family and try to rebuild a relationship with them, (if it isn't already too late).


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Twitter is angry at him about killing 25 men. I know it is war but he described them as chess pieces. Lots of ex soldiers saying he broke the code of not saying how many of the enemy you killed. Some doubt it is true. most think he is an idiot to put his family in danger.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

There are all sorts of leaks from his book and Twits are wondering if they are true. One about his first sexual encounter  lots of jokes about Jilly Coopers Riders .  Twitter is such fun sometimes.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Twitter is angry at him about killing 25 men. I know it is war but he described them as chess pieces. Lots of ex soldiers saying he broke the code of not saying how many of the enemy you killed. Some doubt it is true. most think he is an idiot to put his family in danger.


My husband wondered how he would know how many he killed as he would have been firing at them from a fast moving helicopter, you don’t hang around in those circumstances. Soldiers don’t boast about their ‘kills’. 
There are quite strong rumours from servicemen who were out there with him that his nickname was Bunker Harry or Bunker Boy as that is where he spent most of his time guarded by a detail of Gurkha soldiers.


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Bet their security bill is going to go up a bit!


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I still think he's jealous of his family, mainly William and Kate and will do anything he can to destroy them. 

I'm starting to think he's pure evil.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> I still think he's jealous of his family, mainly William and Kate and will do anything he can to destroy them.
> 
> I'm starting to think he's pure evil.


Me too, he sounds incredibly jealous


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

To be fair, he did have a small room at Balmoral, and had to buy a lamp from Ikea, like a peasant! 😨


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Gemmaa said:


> To be fair, he did have a small room at Balmoral, and had to buy a lamp from Ikea, like a peasant! 😨



and you believe him!


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> How absolutely stupid to do this


#
I honestly think he is as thick as a plank - I really do; and as he (or he and she) have signed up for a ''four book deal'' he's really having to scrape the barrel to produce more vitriol to grace their pages.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Calvine said:


> #
> I honestly think he is as thick as a plank - I really do; and as he (or he and she) have signed up for a ''four book deal'' he's really having to scrape the barrel to produce more vitriol to grace their pages.


I knew someone who was a tutor to the then Prince Charles when he was at university. According to him Charles wasn't exactly the brightest star in the universe either.


----------



## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

This book really has been a spectacular own goal. He’s being absolutely rinsed on Twitter (#haroldsnecklace) and elsewhere, even by those who were more inclined to be sympathetic before. Most of us were at first but they’ve destroyed all that goodwill. They have more than enough money but they obviously want more of a billionaire lifestyle on mere multi millions and expect us to feel sorry for them. They have nothing to offer except tell-all books and interviews and as @Calvine says they’re scraping the barrel at this point. It’s all so trashy.


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Happy Paws2 said:


> and you believe him!


Ahah! No!
He's basically my sister! 
A large part of her not speaking to us for five years, is because she was offended by a joke Christmas card I sent her, even though I explained it!

The way people like that twist things around is just horrific.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Apparently the ‘tiny’ Nottingham cottage they lived in when first married was previously the first home for William and Catherine when they first married, they lived there until George was a year old. The cottage was also the first married home of the the late Queen and the Duke. How come they managed (and didn‘t complain) but H&M whined to all and sundry that it was so small and previous occupants must have been very small. Both William and the DofE were taller then Harry and Meghan isn’t exactly a giant.


Read a great comment today re the alleged fight between H and W

In 1066 another Harold got beaten by a William. Is history repeating itself?


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

It made me laugh that even the Royal dog bowls are always in the way 😂


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Gemmaa said:


> It made me laugh that even the Royal dog bowls are always in the way 😂


And even the metal ones break very easily


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

picaresque said:


> This book really has been a spectacular own goal. He’s being absolutely rinsed on Twitter (#haroldsnecklace) and elsewhere, even by those who were more inclined to be sympathetic before. Most of us were at first but they’ve destroyed all that goodwill. They have more than enough money but they obviously want more of a billionaire lifestyle on mere multi millions and expect us to feel sorry for them. They have nothing to offer except tell-all books and interviews and as @Calvine says they’re scraping the barrel at this point. It’s all so trashy.


Trashy is the right word exactly. They are on a par with the Kardashians, maybe worse: real Spitting Image characters.


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

If there is one thing that all these leaks have confirmed for me, is that the narrative that's existed around how Meghan led Harry astray and turned this once beloved prince into what he is now is entirely unwarranted. 

It seems pretty clear to me that Harry has had deep seated issues with the rest of his family and his place in that family for quite some time... Meghan may have been a catalyst, but given the pettyness of some of the things that have appeared as headlines from someone so privileged, this was going to happen with or without Meghan. 

I'm sure it won't change people saying this is all her fault...


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Meghan kissed a prince and he turned into a frog.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Calvine said:


> Trashy is the right word exactly. They are on a par with the Kardashians, maybe worse: real Spitting Image characters.












Probably for the best his gran is no longer with us, she’d be mortified.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

picaresque said:


> View attachment 582223
> 
> 
> Probably for the best his gran is no longer with us, she’d be mortified.


It did sound rather yucky and definitely something I had no wish to ever hear about


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

To me, one of the most tragic aspects of this entire circus is the effect it must have had on Charles.

Growing up, William and Harry were very close to their Dad.

Harry, in conjunction with his Wife, decides to renounce Britain and walk away from his entire family. Not content with that, he begins a verbal assassination on them all, at a time when Prince Philip has little time to live. Charles then has to contend with the death of his Mother, not long after the death of his Father, and begin a long spell of public appearances at a time when he must have been grief stricken.

Harry is his Son, at the end of the day, and Charles must love him. How betrayed must he feel, not only by Harry and his behaviour, but his appalling timing, showing no respect for the feelings of anyone, (including the late Queen}, other than himself and Meghan?

The Queen was seen in public very little and aged dramatically after the loss of Prince Philip, but also, after hearing all Harry had to say on the Oprah Winfrey show.

Many of us are members of less than ideal families, some of us having grown up in extremely difficult circumstances, but we do not appear on television and take to social media to damage our families as much as we can.

We have a choice to either try and move on from the past, or distance ourselves from those who hurt or damaged us.

What Harry is doing doesn't seem to me to be any attempt to do either. He appears to be trying to cause as much pain and distress as he can, and I don't believe that is normal behaviour.

And, he and Meghan appear to be getting worse as they gather momentum.

In all of their interviews/Netflix appearances/books, all they talk about is how the behaviour of others affected them.

Are they so lacking in self awareness that they cannot see how their behaviour must be affecting Harry's family?

Their hypocrisy is something I find very hard to process.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I’m not sure Charles can really complain about his son’s behaviour …. 🙄


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> I’m not sure Charles can really complain about his son’s behaviour …. 🙄



To be fair to Charles, he hasn't complained about the behaviour of his Son.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Rafa said:


> To be fair to Charles, he hasn't complained about the behaviour of his Son.


Maybe not, but others are on his behalf 😉


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Maybe not, but others are on his behalf 😉


Are they? who are they and are you sure they are doing this on behalf of Charles?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

There's a funny mock up of the Sun where it says "I was broken by a falling ginger toff." Dog bowl tells all. 😅


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Siskin said:


> Are they? who are they and are you sure they are doing this on behalf of Charles?


Well, someone said as much on this thread not that long ago, which was why I made the comment 😉

Honestly, I don’t know why I even posted tbh … it all matters so little to me really! 😁


----------



## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

Lurcherlad said:


> Well, someone said as much on this thread not that long ago, which was why I made the comment 😉
> 
> Honestly, I don’t know why I even posted tbh … it all matters so little to me really! 😁


Yes I agree it's all getting totally boring 💤 how much more can he scrape the barrel . He's said his peice and so it goes on. More interviews etc. Go away and lead your life.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I never use Twitter but had to see what #harrysnecklace was...I couldn't stop laughing at the tweets.
One of my favourite memes was this one


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Seems like Harry is mentally unwell - I hope he gets the help he clearly needs.

Im so glad The Queen isn’t here to witness all this . It’s extraordinary


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

So what next? A film with M playing the lead? Nothing would surprise me any more. 
I have to say I just loved the way Liz Hurley immediately screamed: ''It wasn't me he mounted behind the pub!'' (or words to that effect).


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

This is my fave one @Happy Paws2


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

News today was Harry and Meghan announcing their pregnancy on the day of Eugenie's wedding. From the skim read I just read was that he's excusing himself from that because he told Charles,Willy and Kate prior I think, and Eugenie is totally different from Beatrice. I don't quite get it but was skim reading it.

My nephew is like that with his own brother. When my youngest nephew had his child, first grandchild for my sister. His brother, was posting all over social media, after the baby was born that he was getting married in 4 years time no date or anything. I felt he could have announced that a day later, it's not like they just got engaged had been for a year. So no big news at all.
Then on the day of my nephew's son first birthday, which is always special he announced the date plastered it all over social media and handed people the save the date cards. Even my sister didn't know the date they were getting wed as he wanted to keep it a surprise. So all through this one year olds party all the talk was about his wedding, over shadowing his brother again. I never got what one day would have mattered!


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Now also (allegedly) Harry saying he was not Best Man at William's wedding, didn't make a speech, William had booze on his breath, etc etc. ''Recollections may of course vary'', but apparently papers at the time quoted parts of Harry's speech. William had a couple of good friends helping with Best Man duties.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Whinge, whinge whinge and whinge again, that's all he's doing, sulking because he doesn't get his own way and jealous of his brother, hoping people will feel sorry for him, as if we do 

The man is just a complete, total waste of space.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Rafa said:


> To be fair to Charles, he hasn't complained about the behaviour of his Son.


He won't either, how much Harry hurts him.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I recall that one of them - William or Harry, I forget - announced their pregnancy on Baby Loss Awareness Day when thousands mourn their loss and share photos of a candle lit at 7pm as part of a wave of light to raise awareness and help with isolation - and of course the Press were all over social media with Royal baby news, the emotive impact can be huge. I actually think it was Cambridge’s but not 100% sure.

It’s like a different planet, all Kensington Palace PR had to do was wait a day. It’s not a new thing and should be on PR calendars… it’s like this dammed book, it’s so heavily invested in, that other great authors (not royalty with a ghost writer) get overlooked.

(If you do buy it, at least use an indie bookshop - Berts Books or Bookish, or World of Books who are a B corp.)

There are some calculations based on average earnings for a best seller author and average budgets for books and estimates that he’d make £2.50 per book sale if it was royalties contract


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

margy said:


> Go away and lead your life.


I'm sure most people would agree with what you say . . . BUT, bizarrely, this now _is _their life, whingeing and bemoaning their imagined victimhood. He has no royal duties, she no longer acts, so this, it would seem, is the new joint ''career'' that they have forged for themselves. How long they can keep it lucrative is anyone's guess, but they are currently milking it for all it's worth.
Can't somehow see them having seats at the coronation though.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

MollySmith said:


> I *recall that one of them - William or Harry, I forget - announced their pregnancy on Baby Loss Awareness Day when thousands mourn their loss *and share photos of a candle lit at 7pm as part of a wave of light to raise awareness and help with isolation - and of course the Press were all over social media with Royal baby news, the emotive impact can be huge. I actually think it was Cambridge’s but not 100% sure.
> 
> It’s like a different planet, all Kensington Palace PR had to do was wait a day. It’s not a new thing and should be on PR calendars… it’s like this dammed book, it’s so heavily invested in, that other great authors (not royalty with a ghost writer) get overlooked.
> 
> ...



It was Harry And Meghan

Harry and Meghan Markle have been criticised for announcing their pregnancy on International Pregnancy & Infant Loss Remembrance Day.

William and Kate....
During Baby Loss Awareness Week in the UK, the Prince and Princess of Wales used their social media accounts to raise awareness about those charities helping grieving parents who have lost a baby, before or after birth.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> It was Harry And Meghan
> 
> Harry and Meghan Markle have been criticised for announcing their pregnancy on International Pregnancy & Infant Loss Remembrance Day.
> 
> ...


Thanks @Happy Paws2. I remember having an email exchange with Kensington Palace PR which must’ve been when they still dealt with their press, hence my confusion.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)




----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611226167927005184


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

I liked this update to the Bayeux Tapestry.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)




----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I wonder if his starting to regret writing this book, it's starting to make him look a fool.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> I wonder if his starting to regret writing this book, it's starting to make him look a fool.


Will probably blame the ghostwriter for misinterpreting his words


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> I wonder if his starting to regret writing this book, it's starting to make him look a fool.


The fact is, if someone makes you laugh enough, it's difficult to dislike them because of the entertainment value they provide, and I am starting to look forward to the next episode. Donald Trump had the same effect on me - simply because you never knew what he might do and say next. I am secretly hoping he will run in the next presidential election. And there is talk, I believe, that Meghan has political ambitions - just think of that. Aaaaaagh!


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

She will have to renounce her title if she does. Think that’s right - @O2.0?


----------



## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)




----------



## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I can’t help but feel that this family rift path that Harry seems to be hurtling down is a parallel of Meghan’s with her family. 

Both of them seem to be alienating everyone around them (unless of use to them) blaming the world for their problems and wanting to be viewed as victims.

There is also the cynical part of me that wonders what his real intentions are, disclosing all the “bad” behaviours of his brother…violence and drinking etc….does he secretly want him to be excluded from succession (and his offspring) so that Harry could have his place.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

huckybuck said:


> I can’t help but feel that this family rift path that Harry seems to be hurtling down is a parallel of Meghan’s with her family.
> 
> Both of them seem to be alienating everyone around them (unless of use to them) blaming the world for their problems and wanting to be viewed as victims.
> 
> There is also the cynical part of me that wonders what his real intentions are, disclosing all the “bad” behaviours of his brother…violence and drinking etc….does he secretly want him to be excluded from succession (and his offspring) so that Harry could have his place.


I think they are rather keen to get their IPP back (international personal protection) so they don’t have to pay for their own, the country they are living/visiting in would have to do that though I do wonder if the US would stand for that. IPP also given them immunity from being sued or facing court, having their tax returns available to be shown not even sure if they even have to file taxes, also IPP status means they would have access to any country they visit security and secret information such as that held by MI6. I don’t suppose that’s going to be popular with most countries with them being such blabbermouths


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I think this picture says it all...









IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Princes Harry and William watch a flypast to mark the centenary of the RAF, 2018


----------



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Siskin said:


> She will have to renounce her title if she does. Think that’s right - @O2.0?


I have absolutely no idea, and don't care either


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Threads on Twitter from Americans calling us their friends and saying they've got our back. It's really heartwarming to read.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Threads on Twitter from Americans calling us their friends and saying they've got our back. It's really heartwarming to read.


Good lord! Not discounting the context but isn’t it telling how our priorities are… rather got our backs for numerous other reasons! Aware we’ve got 24 pages


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

MollySmith said:


> Good lord! Not discounting the context but isn’t it telling how our priorities are… rather got our backs for numerous other reasons! Aware we’ve got 24 pages



I think there is so much wrong with the country and it's so distressing, it's a bit of a distraction to have something else to talk about.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> I think there is so much wrong with the country and it's so distressing, it's a bit of a distraction to have something else to talk about.


I agree , I was gently teasing as I've contributed a lot to this too! I guess because in some small way for me anyway, it's gratifying to have something small in common and a distraction. We have a set of cousins where one brother is in the Met, his youngest sibling did time for Her Majesty inside and we call them the Fighting Huttons... We all avoid them like mad as they have a habit of getting us all involved!


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

MollySmith said:


> I agree , I was gently teasing as I've contributed a lot to this too! I guess because in some small way for me anyway, it's gratifying to have something small in common and a distraction. We have a set of cousins where one brother is in the Met, his youngest sibling did time for Her Majesty inside and we call them the Fighting Huttons... We all avoid them like mad as they have a habit of getting us all involved!


Must be honest, your post didn’t come over very well as a light hearted comment. Maybe it did to others though


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Siskin said:


> Must be honest, your post didn’t come over very well as a light hearted comment. Maybe it did to others though


Oh dear. Not everyone gets my sense of humour and I don’t often get others too.

Apologies @kimthecat.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Anyone watching the Harry Interview on ITV tonight,

I'm recording it so I can watch it on my own later, if I feel like it., OH won't watch it. 
.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone watching the Harry Interview on ITV tonight,
> 
> I'm recording it so I can watch it on my own later, if I feel like it., OH won't watch it.
> .


I won’t. Have become very bored of the over privileged entitled ginger whinger


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm only watching it so I know what he said and not just the bits on the News which they have cut to make headlines.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> I'm only watching it so I know what he said and not just the bits on the News which they have cut to make headlines.


Perhaps you can now be our fact checker😁


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> Good lord! Not discounting the context but isn’t it telling how our priorities are… rather got our backs for numerous other reasons! Aware we’ve got 24 pages


 Its just that after all the accusations from some Americans of racism and other nasty stuff, its just nice to know they have seen the light with H and M .


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

No not watching. Got lots of recorded progarmmes to catch up on. Will rely on Happy paws for updates


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone watching the Harry Interview on ITV tonight,
> 
> I'm recording it so I can watch it on my own later, if I feel like it., OH won't watch it.
> .


I will … if only to know for myself where he’s been misquoted, misinterpreted or simply shown himself to have been a complete arse! 😉


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> No not watching. Got lots of recorded progarmmes to catch up on. Will rely on Happy paws for updates


Not sure when I'm watching it. may be in the morning. But I'll my best, if they try and cut it and make more of it than it is. I'll let you know.


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Anyone watching the Harry Interview on ITV tonight,
> 
> I'm recording it so I can watch it on my own later, if I feel like it., OH won't watch it.
> .


I'm not I think it's the same time as Great Pottery Throwdown and football, but I'll be interested to know what you think. I have a horrid feeling it's going to be a car crash interview.


----------



## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

@Happy Paws2 I honestly don't know whether I want you to report back saying they are acting like over-indulged toddlers, or saying that you now completely see their point and sympathise completely with the torment they are made to suffer 🤣


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

JoanneF said:


> @Happy Paws2 I honestly don't know whether I want you to report back saying they are acting *like over-indulged toddlers, *or saying that you now completely see their point and sympathise completely with the torment they are made to suffer 🤣


If it's anything like the bits they have leaked so far, I think the first is most likely

The only thing I'm worried about is, that he may have put his family in danger with some of the things we have heard so far.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I will probably watch it at some point although I haven’t seen any of the Netflix stuff. 

I like to look at body language (face/nose touching, subtle head movements etc) so that I can tell if the person is uncomfortable or lying. From what clips I’ve seen Harry touches his nose a fair bit (usually lying or exaggerating) and shakes his head when being asked a question that he answers positively.

I’m sure he’s been briefed on the body language giveaways but unless an expert at hiding these things it’s very hard to keep up for a long time.


----------



## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Shan't be watching, haven't been reading, other than this thread, as it has been, in part, amusing, to say the least 
Whether they deserve it or not 
All the furore makes me think of the crowds cheering at each person of 'nobility', as they were guillotined 
Part relief it's not their head on the block and 
Part relief that it's not their family dirty washing being hurled around in public, by a family member who has been hurt once to often 

I like to remember there's three sides to any anecdotal evidence 
1) you're side
2) their side 
And 
3) the actual truth 
The last, we will never know, because we just weren't there 
Even if Charles and William were to reply 
It would still be ambiguity, wrapped in their view of how things happened


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

mrs phas said:


> Even if Charles and William were to reply
> It would still be ambiguity, wrapped in their view of how things happened



I think, they think give him enough rope and he'll hang himself.


----------



## rottieboys (Jan 16, 2013)

What really upset me, M wanted to see the Queen on her death bed. Why ?


----------



## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

rottieboys said:


> What really upset me, M wanted to see the Queen on her death bed. Why ?


Can't sell the story if you publicly weren't there. Can you imagine the spin she would put on that!


----------



## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Its just that after all the accusations from some Americans of racism and other nasty stuff, its just nice to know they have seen the light with H and M .


Thank you taking this in the spirit it was intended. Yes, indeed - I suspect better ways of handling some aspects of their argument.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I saw a few minutes of the interview. I think he has a persecution complex.


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> I saw a few minutes of the interview. I think he has a persecution complex.


Seen on the news bits he said, and I thought the same.


----------



## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Initially deluded. Mostly just totally self absorbed and narcissistic. It sounded like he was channelling Gordon Ramsay in the audiobook and he emulated Meghan with his acting skills. 

I came away thinking it’s his Dad and William who have tried to heal the rifts and he’s the one completely disregarding it all preferring to lay blame and cynicism instead.

I used to feel sorry for him and worry what would happen to him (probably when Meghan leaves him) but now I don’t at all. He’s full of his own self importance which he never used to be.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I watched him closely … he blinked about as often as the interviewer and touched his nose 3 times (twice while speaking and once while listening) … not sure what that means 😛


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Lurcherlad said:


> I watched him closely … he blinked about as often as the interviewer and touched his nose 3 times (twice while speaking and once while listening) … not sure what that means 😛


I've been watching a series about interviews with celebrities who are lying or at the least not comfortable with their version of the truth. There is a panel of experts in body language, linguistics and psychology who explain how they know the "whoeveritis" is not telling the truth. The programme about Michael Jackson was fascinating!









Michael Jackson's body language suggest he's 'telling the truth'


In new Discovery+ documentary, Michael Jackson: A Faking It Special, body language experts examine footage of the 'King of pop' from 2003 documentary, Living With Michael Jackson.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Well I watched it, I think his self centred everything was me, me. His blaming the press for everything, yet his using them to sell his book. I was annoyed with him before now I really don't like him, he just can't see how much he is hurting other people. I just worry what the backlash might have on his children.


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

I started watching it, I honestly don't know how far I got thru but I got bored at least past the halfway mark... so this is based on what I did watch...

For me what I saw was someone who was deeply traumatized at an early age and everything we are seeing now is a result of that trauma. It's like everything in his life is being viewed thru the lens of "the press killed my mum, 'they' didn't do anything to stop it".

I'm sure this is bordering on being a bit of an armchair psychologist, but getting married to Meghan and having children potentially triggered all of that trauma and the fact he has never effectively dealt with it. To @huckybuck 's point that he used to be different - he probably was... all of this may have been there under the surface and that triggering has bought it all front and center. I don't think he even realizes that some of what he is doing is contributing to what he is railing against - he doesn't seem to be able to see that.

He also came across as privileged and I think that leads to his view of it being all about him. One of the last points I saw was a comparison of the Royal family to the President of the USA. That was when I sort of scoffed and thought I'm too bored to continue. Like, is he really comparing his treatment to the president. Very odd - very privileged and misguided.

I still think Meghan has come across unfairly in all of this, I believe that Harry is the cause of a lot of what people dislike about them. I don't really know why I have turned into a Meghan supporter, it definitely started from a 'why do people dislike her so much' and now I find myself watching stuff to see if the dislike of her is valid or not. Most times I get the impression probably not.


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Petulant narcissistic brat whose been on the strong wacky baccy for too long (bragged about being off on it after his first date with Megan, and it can feed paranoia) takes no responsibility for own actions. Boohoo William had a bigger bedroom, flip me so has my grandson compared to my granddaughter, do I need to keep my eye out for the unfairness of it all in their later life. it’s all everyone else’s fault I’m just a poor little souls who lost his mum in a horrible way and I will keep mentioning it because I’m dining out on her memory. His mum would be turning in her grave and if she was still alive would be ashamed of his current behaviour


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> I won’t. Have become very bored of the over privileged entitled ginger whinger


 Actually, I'm finding it quite entertaining keeping a tally of how many times he contradicts himself. He is now saying that he never said the RF were racist (really??) even though the pair of them made a big thing of telling Oprah that they were, also that the son was not given his ''rightful title'' because of his mother's colour. If this interview was done to promote the book, which one imagines it was, it would not encourage me to buy it. And so much already printed that we already know what's in it; I reckon it will end up in Waterstone's Bargain Bucket.


----------



## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I might take a quick visit to Waterstones to see what shelf its on; biography, autobiography, self help, comedy or fiction.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Did I hear at the end of programme that there is a US interview on ITV X this afternoon.

So he's so upset he's doing two interviews. Wow he is full of himself.


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Did I hear at the end of programme that there is a US interview on ITV X this afternoon.
> 
> So he's so upset he's doing two interviews. Wow he is full of himself.


I'm not sure which interview everyone in the UK is talking about, because I don't have British TV only US TV. There is/was an interview on CBS "60 Minutes" with Anderson Cooper of CNN on Sunday evening which I didn't watch because it didn't start until 2 am Hungarian time.









Prince Harry Tells Anderson Cooper He Doesn't See Himself Returning to Working Royal Role


In a preview for this interview with Anderson Cooper, Prince Harry said he does not see himself ever becoming a working member of the royal family again




people.com


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I’ve just read a piece from a respected journalist who mentioned an interview in Lesotho Harry was moaning about during the Tom Bradby program. Harry said he got furious with this annoying journo as he was asked some questions about drug taking. Afterwards (along with his rather frequent red mist appearing) he went and drowned his sorrows with a load of beer and a supermarket bag of weed. He does seem unable to connect the dots about temper and drugs.
Oh and that pesky journo was none other then Tom Bradby (a friend apparently)


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Siskin said:


> I’ve just read a piece from a respected journalist who mentioned an interview in Lesotho Harry was moaning about during the Tom Bradby program. Harry said he got furious with this annoying journo as he was asked some questions about drug taking. Afterwards (along with his rather frequent red mist appearing) he went and drowned his sorrows with a load of beer and a supermarket bag of weed. He does seem unable to connect the dots about temper and drugs.
> Oh and that pesky journo was none other then Tom Bradby (a friend apparently)


Is this the articleyou're thinking of? I read it too and found it rather revealing.









ROBERT HARDMAN: To quote our late Majesty... recollections may vary


ROBERT HARDMAN: This is a book which does not just lob grenades at the Royal Family or the monarchy, as well as at the 'detestable' media but casually drags in umpteen blameless souls.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Magyarmum said:


> Is this the articleyou're thinking of? I read it too and found it rather revealing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s the one, very interesting reading


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I watched the UK interview last night.

He reminded me of one of those people who line their bedrooms with tin foil.

I actually felt a bit sorry for him; I thought he came across as somebody who was paranoid, and has nobody to talk him down.

I think he’s ‘damaged’, partly by events in his history and also because of the totally insular life that he now leads.

You can’t imagine he has a trusted best mate that he can talk things over with and who’ll say if he’s being an idiot.

Yes, he’s rich, yes he’s privileged. I don’t think it’s done much for him.


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## Dog Walker Woman (Dec 6, 2013)

I found some of the interview heart breaking ( felt so much pain in him)
He felt genuine to me.
He has a lot of pain from childhood, and since, which I feel he is trying to deal with in the only way he can, by being open and honest (baring all) so no one can dig the dirt from the past. 
Letting people know the real Harry, taking ownership of his actions.
If he wasn't from such a dysfunctional 'plastic halo' family maybe he wouldn't have been forced to do these interviews to communicate his feelings.
I hope his family can FEEL where he is coming from and at least open the way for some healing between them.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Hubby and i watched the interview and we both found it quite sad. Personally i have always loved both WiIliam and Harry, and it breaks my heart that they are not as close as they used to be. Harry has a lot to say, and fair play to him.
Has anyone stopped to think, William " might be " as frustrated as Harry but he can't express it? 
The UK press has a lot to answer for. 
I don't believe Harry has anything to be sorry for.
If we are going to keep the monarchy then things NEED to change.*


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *If we are going to keep the monarchy then things NEED to change.*



I agree the monarchy does have to change and I think will, hopeful* without *Harry and his wife.

It upset me that he could sit there and pull his family apart knowing full well they will not say anything about his raving.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Linda Weasel said:


> He reminded me of one of those people who line their bedrooms with tin foil.
> 
> I actually felt a bit sorry for him; I thought he came across as somebody who was paranoid, and has nobody to talk him down.


Like my niece with schizophrenia. Though she had a lined hard hat. She thought everyone was trying to cause her harm too 

She had been traumatised in childhood and started to suffer as a mature adult


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Dog Walker Woman said:


> I hope his family can FEEL where he is coming from and at least open the way for some healing between them.



Now his attacked Camilla it's going to even harder


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## Dog Walker Woman (Dec 6, 2013)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Now his attacked Camilla it's going to even harder


William has a strained relationship with her anyway, so maybe not a problem for him.








Prince William Has Made It "Clear" That Camilla Is Not "Step-Grandmother to His Children"


Per an insider, George, Charlotte, and Louis know they have “two grandfathers but only one grandmother."




www.goodhousekeeping.com


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Dog Walker Woman said:


> forced to do these interviews to communicate his feelings.


Call me cynical, but I thought these interviews were to flog a few more copies of the book. 😀


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## Dog Walker Woman (Dec 6, 2013)

Calvine said:


> Call me cynical, but I thought these interviews were to flog a few more copies of the book. 😀


Yeah Cynical ! 😋
I think they were, but I did prefer seeing him talk from the heart than to read a book anyway.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I think initially the interviews were to try to sell the book but now they are more damage limitation.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

huckybuck said:


> I think initially the interviews were to try to sell the book but now they are more *damage limitation.*


I think it's too late for that.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

The precise timing of the interviews. two days prior to it going on sale, is what made me think that.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Tired of them. World has bigger problems than a couple of spoilt brats looking for notoriety. Who cares?


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

*Princess Diana would have been "heartbroken" about the conflict with his brother Prince William, Prince Harry has told a US television interview.* 

Maybe he should have thought about that before he started all of this.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Talk about been paranoid, if you have 3 mins..









Duke of Sussex's U.S. interview: Harry once branded Queen Consort 'dangerous' - Latest From ITV News


Watch the latest from ITV News - In an interview with CBS broadcaster Anderson Cooper, Prince Harry said he is “not texting” his brother and described the Queen Consort as “the villain.”




www.itv.com


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

I've only seen snippets of the interviews on the news. As I've said it is getting boring but I do feel sorry for the boy Harry. He lost his mother and it traumatised him. He should have had therapy then and been kept at Balmoral as the Queen wanted them to be protected, she was wise.But unfortunately someone said they must come back to London, it was said to be Tony Blair but he denied it. Harry is a man now and if he needs help which he recognises he does, then he has the money to pay for the best psychiatrists. Repeatingly being the victim isn't healthy and harping on about it is turning people against him. Lots of people have trauma in their lives my God the poor people in Ukraine. But they get on with it. I admire them greatly and it make Harry's problems insignificant.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

margy said:


> I've only seen snippets of the interviews on the news. As I've said it is getting boring but I do feel sorry for the boy Harry. He lost his mother and it traumatised him. He should have had therapy then and been kept at Balmoral as the Queen wanted them to be protected, she was wise.But unfortunately someone said they must come back to London, it was said to be Tony Blair but he denied it. Harry is a man now and if he needs help which he recognises he does, then he has the money to pay for the best psychiatrists. Repeatingly being the victim isn't healthy and harping on about it is turning people against him. Lots of people have trauma in their lives my God the poor people in Ukraine. But they get on with it. I admire them greatly and it make Harry's problems insignificant.


Agree.

I don't believe in the seven stages of grief but I do believe in the pain of grief and the anger, how us humans can look for anyone to blame and kick out. He was twelve when his mother died and I would imagine that the death of his grandparents may add to these really complex and isolated feelings of grief. Despite being a parent himself (and maybe because he is?) and being a HRH with a lifestyle that he never chose from birth, I get the feeling that this is a words of young boy, trying to find answers, or comfort, attention. Perhaps, because of Meghan's treatment which is appalling by our media, that's brought up a lot of pain. 

I don't often agree with Nicholas Witchell (neither does the King if anyone has seen the clip that's been doing the rounds on his opinion of the journalist!) but he inferred last night on the BBC that 'Harry now wanted a private conversation with his family which is ironic given the publicity he's sought lately.' 

As far as coming back to London, I _think_ the public, fulled by the press at the time, were demanding that they saw the Queen who, in my opinion back then, put the two boys first and stayed with them. I was in London the night before the funeral and was gobsmacked by the outpouring of sorrow, and I guess Harry is a good income target for anyone wanting to feed their own lifestyle as Diana's life and death is still emotive stuff. It feels like a private matter that began with rightly calling out racism, and now escalated into something so much more tragic and weary, forced into the public space by the Netflix bosses, a publishing team and a PR team all gleefully grabbing the money when grief work could have been much better value.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Whoops!









California: Entire community of Montecito ordered to evacuate as storms continue to batter state


More than 35,000 people have been left without power as violent weather batters the state, with 12 people losing their lives in the last 10 days.




news.sky.com


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

MollySmith said:


> 'Harry now wanted a private conversation with his family


I doubt the family will trust him to keep any conversation private (I mean, would you!!) as he has blabbed and spilled the beans about just about everything to date. They will worry that anything they say will be twisted and aired in public in no time at all.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Deguslave said:


> Whoops!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I saw that last night, really feel for everyone there, not sure if I think the same for H&M


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Well I couldn't sleep last night so I gave in and watched the US interview.

TBH I really felt for him when was talking about Diana and the crash, after that sympathy finished, William may have pushed him over but listening to him whining again, if he'd been in the room this morning, I felt like doing more than pushing him.


----------



## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Getting harder and harder to avoid the non entity that this is 
This popped up on my newsfeed....

People are now lambasting him as they noticed his door handles were "upside down"
With many asking 
"Just what kind of people do that"

I'm sitting her wanting to scream 
"Anyone who has a clever(?) dog"




Happy Paws2 said:


> I saw that last night, really feel for everyone there, not sure if I think the same for H&M


Why not?
Tbh that's a very uncharitable remark 
Why wish them ill, just because you dislike what, you believe, someone has become?
They still have children and animals, they're still human beings deserving of compassion 
Otherwise it makes you as bad as them

I've been flooded out twice and both times the devastation sent me into such a panic that, anytime there was a storm, or even prolonged rainfall, I'd be a quivering wreck 
Thankfully, moving to a home where the rest of the town would need to be flooded above roof level, to even dribble into mine, cured me and I could go back to enjoying storms
I hope EVERYONE continues to be safe


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

mrs phas said:


> Getting harder and harder to avoid the non entity that this is
> This popped up on my newsfeed....
> 
> People are now lambasting him as they noticed his door handles were "upside down"
> ...


I said "I wasn't sure how I felt," I didn't say I wanted them to get flooded of cause I don't.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Happy Paws2 said:


> I saw that last night, really feel for everyone there, not sure if I think the same for H&M


This above is what you said ⬆

Not this below, ⬇



Happy Paws2 said:


> I said "I wasn't sure how I felt," I didn't say I wanted them to get flooded of cause I don't.


There's quite a wide difference, and it's not just semantics


----------



## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

mrs phas said:


> This above is what you said ⬆
> 
> Not this below, ⬇
> 
> ...


Splitting hairs, a little bit!


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

If as he says Camilla is dangerous, what does he think the interviews and his book makes him for his family.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

mrs phas said:


> they're still human beings deserving of compassion


You wouldn't know it reading this thread!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> If as he says Camilla is dangerous, what does he think the interviews and his book makes him for his family.


I think the insinuation is that the relationship between the Press and the Royal Family is dangerous. And we may conclude the Queen Consort! Which, given the gentle sidelining of a suspect non-sweaty uncle, seems a fair one.

I’ve said it so many times that the press, specifically Murdoch, have so much influence as does the Daily Mail. The documentary about them and phone hacking specially around Millie Dowler is disturbing and all that came from it was a self regulatory body; IPSO is worth nothing.

We might seek to blame ourselves for Brexit, Boris and the breakdown of this country but the press is a huge influence on what people do at the polling stations, and our general behaviour and beliefs. I think, in that regard, he may have a point _disclaimer that I haven’t read the book_


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I knew long before it was in the press that Camilla had met and was spending time with William and Harry. How did I know? A friend in the village happened to be somewhere and saw them all together. Anyone could have spoken to the press not just Camilla


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

I can't help but wonder how H and wife would react if her ex-husband started to give interviews and write books about his ex-wife. I imagine the guy has been offered megabucks to spill the beans about his (presumably short) relationship with her. To his credit he seems to be behaving impeccably.- I've not heard a word anyway. 
Another thing I ask myself: what is H's actual objective in writing this book (or rather, getting someone to write it for him) apart from the money? What does he think it will achieve, other than widen the gulf between him and his family?


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

MollySmith said:


> I think the insinuation is that the relationship between the Press and the Royal Family is dangerous. And we may conclude the Queen Consort! Which, given the gentle sidelining of a suspect non-sweaty uncle, seems a fair one.
> 
> I’ve said it so many times that the press, specifically Murdoch, have so much influence as does the Daily Mail. The documentary about them and phone hacking specially around Millie Dowler is disturbing and all that came from it was a self regulatory body; IPSO is worth nothing.
> 
> We might seek to blame ourselves for Brexit, Boris and the breakdown of this country but the press is a huge influence on what people do at the polling stations, and our general behaviour and beliefs. I think, in that regard, he may have a point _disclaimer that I haven’t read the book_


Exactly this the press has an agenda it’s not a big leap to believe the Royal Family use it their advantage. I think peoples views will very much depend on their views of the monarchy. I don’t agree with the ‘don’t explain’ line they use. A few things they really should explain! 

Whilst everyone has been getting angry about Harry there has been very little coverage on; Charles cash for honours scandal around his charity, Prince Andrew refusing to speak to the FBI, where exactly did the 12 million come from to pay off the sex trafficking victim. 

I haven’t and won’t read the book. I did watch the interview. I think he is traumatised by what happened to his mum. Im confused as to why with all that wealth he was never supported with this.

From my understanding he didn’t want to leave the RF. He wanted to live somewhere safe with his family but continue to take part in Royal duties. This was perceived as wanting his cake and eating it but to me makes sense.

They refused this then whilst he was getting death threats with people threatening his family removed his security!

I think this his last swing of the bat as they wouldn’t talk to him privately.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> Exactly this the press has an agenda it’s not a big leap to believe the Royal Family use it their advantage. I think peoples views will very much depend on their views of the monarchy. I don’t agree with the ‘don’t explain’ line they use. A few things they really should explain!
> 
> Whilst everyone has been getting angry about Harry there has been very little coverage on; Charles cash for honours scandal around his charity, Prince Andrew refusing to speak to the FBI, where exactly did the 12 million come from to pay off the sex trafficking victim.
> 
> ...


Yes, agree and I think many of us can empathise with the feeling even in a small way of when a family lets us down, and this isn’t a regular family, seemingly one so strung up on protocol than there is no compromise to be had, all he has is to lash out.

In some ways, he plays into their hands, this won’t damage them, it’s nothing compared to the outrage we should be focussing on re Andrew and cash for honours, as you say (and the rest of the world troubles). They have enough support (dare I say proven with the late Queen‘s funeral) but more Andrew revelations would really hurt especially if the funeral was some sort of lite PR rehab.

I’m hoping it might save a few independent bookshops going under.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I think the proof of the pudding will be in a few weeks time when we see how many copies of his book end up in charity shops. People tend to hang on to books they like, ones they never want to read again, end up in charity shops. Just looked how many copies of Shades of Grey they ended up with.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Deguslave said:


> I think the proof of the pudding will be in a few weeks time when we see how many copies of his book end up in charity shops. People tend to hang on to books they like, ones they never want to read again, end up in charity shops. Just looked how many copies of Shades of Grey they ended up with.


Is it just that? Or is it also that when you have a book like Fifty Shades or the Da Vinci Code so many people buy a copy that there are just thousands more to donate? It doesn't necessarily mean that the book is disliked or even something that someone won't read again it's just that the sheer number of books in circulation mean more end up in a charity shops than copies of other books where the number of books originally sold is just significantly less? 

I don't buy as many books as I used to, but I have been known to buy a book in hardback, read it, donate it, pick it up on Kindle (hopefully in deals) for rereading later 😁 just so I don't have lots of physical books taking up lots and lots of space. 

I think there was a charity shop that built a fort out of fifty shades books, maybe if Spare does become top of the chaorty list donations they can build a replica palace.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Has anyone bought the book?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

They wanted to do the royal stuff and also capitalise on being royals in order to make money for themselves, a half in half out. This is not what’s the royal family is about, they do not make money for themselves out of being a royal person. They were given a choice, serve the crown or you work for yourselves, you don’t do both. They chose not to do that nor to stay here, no one made them leave. And this nonsense that he didn’t feel safe in the UK is ridiculous now he has boasted about killing 25 Taliban fighters, he won’t be safe anywhere after that little cracker. Nor will those in the UK who are or have been in the services and those disabled ex servicemen who take part in the Invictus games or for that matter Harrys own family especially during the coronation in May. My daughter lives and works in central London, can’t say I’m particularly amused by his idle boasts putting her and many other Londoners in danger from any fallout from some suicide bomber.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Has anyone bought the book?


No, not putting any more money in their pockets


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I was just going to ask the same question!


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

No not buying , seen enough on the TV and press. It should be in the fiction department.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

kimthecat said:


> No not buying , seen enough on the TV and press. *It should be in the fiction department.*



That's just what my OH said this morning


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Psygon said:


> Is it just that? Or is it also that when you have a book like Fifty Shades or the Da Vinci Code so many people buy a copy that there are just thousands more to donate? It doesn't necessarily mean that the book is disliked or even something that someone won't read again it's just that the sheer number of books in circulation mean more end up in a charity shops than copies of other books where the number of books originally sold is just significantly less?
> 
> I don't buy as many books as I used to, but I have been known to buy a book in hardback, read it, donate it, pick it up on Kindle (hopefully in deals) for rereading later 😁 just so I don't have lots of physical books taking up lots and lots of space.
> 
> I think there was a charity shop that built a fort out of fifty shades books, maybe if Spare does become top of the chaorty list donations they can build a replica palace.


There will be predicted sales and a first print run with bookshops buying in bulks of 12 but it's far from an exact science. When I worked for Penguin, we had quarterly over stock sales and I could fill a car boot for £30 of current books that were selling for that much in the shops. Nowadays book publishers will underestimate print runs to save on carbon (though ebooks and updating devices generates as much) and cost of pulping.

Some books are seen as 'chip paper'. Once the thrill of reading 50 Shades has gone and the Da Vinci code is solved, it become charity shop or holiday cottage shelf material. Dick Francis and those condensed Readers Digest back in the day too!

The Bookseller, the trade mag for publishing reports that Transworld have sold 400k copies of Spare in the first day across all formats, which isn't far from Harry Potter releases, just showing that you can never always predict taste! Click on the link to see Bert's Books window display for their 'two current bestsellers' (posted I'm sure with tongue in cheek knowing them!)

Also it's interesting from publishing point of view to see it released after Christmas, as January is a dead month for books so that should sway some chains and Indies to stock it as it favours their overheads. September publishing for Christmas is awful when there's some monster authors like Rowling, Richard Osmond or some celeb putting out a book purely to get festive sales at the expense of others and marketing departments at publishers will push the guaranteed sales with big names ahead of better quality reads.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Has anyone bought the book?


Nope.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

I simply don't trust Harry's interpretation of what happened or the accuracy of his memory of past events, some examples of which were mentioned in Robert Hardman's article (post #509)


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

SbanR said:


> I simply don't trust Harry's interpretation of what happened or the accuracy of his memory of past events, some examples of which were mentioned in Robert Hardman's article (post #509)


I'm not disputing that Harry's interpretation may be... One sided, however, I'm also not sure I'd place much trust in the view of events that a journalist got either. 

I mean one thing in the article you've referenced is how when discussing the wedding outfit William was all smiles and jokes about it. Now maybe he was, but I'm pretty sure the royal family have a private face and a public face. The public face is all smiles and warm handshakes when they are greeting the public who are crying over the death of their beloved princess... If they can go out there and do that as children I'm pretty sure as adults they can do that when discussing a wedding outfit, or when their father is remarrying.

I guess without anyone in the royal family commenting on any of the claims we won't ever really know. 

I do think it's interesting to an extent that it mostly comes across that it's easy to believe stuff is true when it's negative about Harry and Meghan, but less so the other way.


----------



## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Psygon said:


> I'm not disputing that Harry's interpretation may be... One sided, however, I'm also not sure I'd place much trust in the view of events that a journalist got either.
> 
> I mean one thing in the article you've referenced is how when discussing the wedding outfit William was all smiles and jokes about it. Now maybe he was, but I'm pretty sure the royal family have a private face and a public face. The public face is all smiles and warm handshakes when they are greeting the public who are crying over the death of their beloved princess... If they can go out there and do that as children I'm pretty sure as adults they can do that when discussing a wedding outfit, or when their father is remarrying.
> 
> ...


Exactly I don’t believe every word he says but I’m just shocked by the hatred of these two. I seem to be coming across as their number 1 fan in this thread  but can fully see some of his privilege and contradictions. A few things that we know are true.

The press in this country are problematic, they lie and embellish. They played a role in his mothers death. They did go after Meghan. She did get death threats. The RF had no issue finding 12 million for Andrew but removed Harrys security at the height of these threats. I find this shocking he is still a son, still has their grandchildren.

I don’t think they are as unpopular as the press are leaving us to believe people were up at midnight for this book. It’s the most pre-ordered book. I think he may end up regretting it but maybe it is time the RF become more transparent (drawing the line at losing their virginity) like I said what actually happened in the cash for honours scandal ? The story just went poof ….

He has responded to the Taliban comments. Its hard to know without reading the book.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I don’t it’s just the British press Who lie and embellish, most other countries newspapers are much the same


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Has anyone bought the book?


I have. I used a book voucher I got for Christmas, so I paid £4 for it.

I also got another Royal biography so I can compare and contrast them.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

SbanR said:


> the accuracy of his memory


It's a fact that drug abuse can seriously affect the memory.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I have no doubt that he believes his own truth - my Mum who is a narcissist makes stuff up but totally believes it happened they way she thinks it did. She mithers and goes over so much stuff in her head and is paranoid so twists events to suit her narrative but ultimately she believes it all actually happened the way it feels to her.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Psygon said:


> I'm not disputing that Harry's interpretation may be... One sided, however, I'm also not sure I'd place much trust in the view of events that a journalist got either.
> 
> I mean one thing in the article you've referenced is how when discussing the wedding outfit William was all smiles and jokes about it. Now maybe he was, but I'm pretty sure the royal family have a private face and a public face. The public face is all smiles and warm handshakes when they are greeting the public who are crying over the death of their beloved princess... If they can go out there and do that as children I'm pretty sure as adults they can do that when discussing a wedding outfit, or when their father is remarrying.
> 
> ...


I was thinking about C&C wedding actually and other public events . How H said he felt/ what happened, and his actual behaviour are polar opposites.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> (drawing the line at losing their virginity)


Think I spotted reference also to a frostbitten penis; maybe I imagined that.


----------



## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Psygon said:


> I do think it's interesting to an extent that it mostly comes across that it's easy to believe stuff is true when it's negative about Harry and Meghan, but less so the other way.


Maybe because his account been shown to be different to what actually happened so many times?


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## Dog Walker Woman (Dec 6, 2013)

Harry has been having therapy of different sorts, for a few years now and it's about being real and owning things, so I think that is what he is wanting to do with the interviews and book .
His life in the institution of puppetry and fake personas for p/r. wasn't working for him so he now wants to tell it how it is/was and be real.
Not sure it was wise to reveal some things but along the growth path you learn things as you go.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> The RF had no issue finding 12 million for Andrew but removed Harrys security at the height of these threats.


I don't believe he had his security removed. I don't believe that for a second. After what happened to Diana, there is no way the RF would put themselves in that position. I think it was @Magyarmum who posted an interview on here where a former security person (not for the RF but au fait with the protocols) said that they might have wanted their own personal security - US or Canadian based instead of security vetted by the RF and trained in the UK and the RF wouldn't pay for that. Another possibility is that they asked for separate security for the children and that's not how it works, the security would cover the parents and the children all together. 



SbanR said:


> How H said he felt/ what happened, and his actual behaviour are polar opposites.


That's my biggest take-away from all of this. Behavior vs. words. Talk is cheap. In this sort of situation you don't look at what someone says, you look at what they do.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

He looks so miserable, like the weight of the world is on his shoulders.

I don't think Megan can be supporting him properly


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

SbanR said:


> Maybe because his account been shown to be different to what actually happened so many times?


I wasn't specifically thinking about the book and recent reveals - just in general. 

Last year someone on here mentioned Samantha Markle's book, and I'm sure whoever mentioned it said it probably wasn't fiction (as Samantha had lived with Meghan). Is that because people already think unfavourably of Meghan, so it fits a narrative for it not to be fiction? Whereas views of the royal family are largely more favourable so it fits the narrative that what Harry or Meghan says is mostly fiction?

Totally get that there are inconsistencies - and that those have definitely damaged credibility. But it still remains interesting to me that if someone comes out and says something negative about Harry and Meghan it's treated as gospel, but not the other way around. And, putting the current book and press tour aside, that seems to have been the case for a while.


----------



## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

rona said:


> He looks so miserable, like the weight of the world is on his shoulders.
> 
> I don't think Megan can be supporting him properly


I think Megan might be winding him up and pointing him….


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> I don't believe he had his security removed. I don't believe that for a second. After what happened to Diana, there is no way the RF would put themselves in that position. I think it was @Magyarmum who posted an interview on here where a former security person (not for the RF but au fait with the protocols) said that they might have wanted their own personal security - US or Canadian based instead of security vetted by the RF and trained in the UK and the RF wouldn't pay for that. Another possibility is that they asked for separate security for the children and that's not how it works, the security would cover the parents and the children all together.
> 
> That's my biggest take-away from all of this. Behavior vs. words. Talk is cheap. In this sort of situation you don't look at what someone says, you look at what they do.


He really did a big thing was made about it because of where the money came from.


O2.0 said:


> I don't believe he had his security removed. I don't believe that for a second. After what happened to Diana, there is no way the RF would put themselves in that position. I think it was @Magyarmum who posted an interview on here where a former security person (not for the RF but au fait with the protocols) said that they might have wanted their own personal security - US or Canadian based instead of security vetted by the RF and trained in the UK and the RF wouldn't pay for that. Another possibility is that they asked for separate security for the children and that's not how it works, the security would cover the parents and the children all together.
> 
> That's my biggest take-away from all of this. Behavior vs. words. Talk is cheap. In this sort of situation you don't look at what someone says, you look at what they do.


It was quite widely spoken about at the time here it was no secret it was removed. 









Prince Harry 'stunned' when royals allowed his security to be removed - and says Queen 'sad but not surprised' when they stepped back


More claims emerge from Prince Harry's latest interview to promote his book Spare - with the duke telling Good Morning America that he thinks the Queen was "sad" at his decision to leave the UK, but did not seem not angry or surprised.




news.sky.com


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Psygon said:


> I wasn't specifically thinking about the book and recent reveals - just in general.
> 
> Last year someone on here mentioned Samantha Markle's book, and I'm sure whoever mentioned it said it probably wasn't fiction (as Samantha had lived with Meghan). Is that because people already think unfavourably of Meghan, so it fits a narrative for it not to be fiction? Whereas views of the royal family are largely more favourable so it fits the narrative that what Harry or Meghan says is mostly fiction?
> 
> Totally get that there are inconsistencies - and that those have definitely damaged credibility. But it still remains interesting to me that if someone comes out and says something negative about Harry and Meghan it's treated as gospel, but not the other way around. And, putting the current book and press tour aside, that seems to have been the case for a while.


It’s difficult to believe someone when they have been shown to have lied or bent the truth in the past. Meghan and Harry were very popular by the majority in the UK and pretty much couldn’t put a foot wrong, but then it gradually broke down and people began to question what they were saying over what they were doing. I think the preaching over air travel then gaily taking private jets began the breakdown of trust and people began to ask questions
Its getting harder to believe something positive about them


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Boxer123 said:


> He really did a big thing was made about it because of where the money came from.
> 
> 
> It was quite widely spoken about at the time here it was no secret it was removed.
> ...


But why should the UK taxpayers pay for their protection when they are no longer working royals nor living in the UK. Non working royals do not have personal protection. If H&M visit the UK and are with working royals such as staying with the King then they will have full personal protection, if staying elsewhere then they have to use their own protection although they will not be permitted to be armed nor have access to the UK’s secret security arrangements and terroist risk assessments and movements.
If H&M were indeed granted international personal protection (IPP) the countries that they are living in or visiting would have to pay for this, they would also be privy to the US’s secret security arrangements. I don‘t expect the citizens of the US will be happy to pay for this via their taxes


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Boxer123 said:


> It was quite widely spoken about at the time here it was no secret it was removed.


Yes, I do believe they had their assigned security pulled, but I don't believe they were ever without personal protection which is how they make it sound. 

Obviously I don't know, none of us do, but saying "The RF pulled our protection" can mean all sorts of things. I think it means they could no longer use specific security assigned to working royals. That doesn't mean they couldn't use any other security of their choice. And I'm willing to bet that whoever found the money for Andrew also provided the money for them to use private security. The reason I believe that is because of what happened to Diana. If god forbid anything had happened and it came out that they didn't have _any_ protection, it would look terrible for the RF. Perhaps a cynical view on my part, that the royals only care about how something might look, but I just don't believe H&M were ever without any protection of any kind. 

Basically, as non working royals they would no longer have access to the specific security assigned to working royals. Which makes sense. At my job, I use my printer sometimes for personal stuff, but work allows it. If I quit my job though, I can no longer use that printer - for anything. Complaining that my job took my printer away would be silly. But my job isn't preventing me from using any other printer of my choice, and may have even given me severance pay to use towards something like a printer. I feel like this is kind of a similar thing.


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## Dog Walker Woman (Dec 6, 2013)

Prince Harry files legal claim over right to pay for UK police protection


Duke of Sussex seeks judicial review of Home Office refusal to let him pay for protection after being chased by photographers last summer




www.theguardian.com


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Psygon said:


> I wasn't specifically thinking about the book and recent reveals - just in general.
> 
> Last year someone on here mentioned Samantha Markle's book, and I'm sure whoever mentioned it said it probably wasn't fiction (as Samantha had lived with Meghan). Is that because people already think unfavourably of Meghan, so it fits a narrative for it not to be fiction? Whereas views of the royal family are largely more favourable so it fits the narrative that what Harry or Meghan says is mostly fiction?
> 
> Totally get that there are inconsistencies - and that those have definitely damaged credibility. But it still remains interesting to me that if someone comes out and says something negative about Harry and Meghan it's treated as gospel, but not the other way around. And, putting the current book and press tour aside, that seems to have been the case for a while.


And, ultimately, that’s what prompted me to buy the book. I was looking for biographies from “the other side” of the H&M story - the Royals or the media. It seemed only fair to get _Spare_ too. That way, I can read both sides of the argument and, if I wish to, or am curious enough to, and have the time, do my own research.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Siskin said:


> But why should the UK taxpayers pay for their protection when they are no longer working royals nor living in the UK. Non working royals do not have personal protection. If H&M visit the UK and are with working royals such as staying with the King then they will have full personal protection, if staying elsewhere then they have to use their own protection although they will not be permitted to be armed nor have access to the UK’s secret security arrangements and terroist risk assessments and movements.





O2.0 said:


> Yes, I do believe they had their assigned security pulled, but I don't believe they were ever without personal protection which is how they make it sound.


I think the arguments over the protection are more about what @Siskin has mentioned - or at least that's what I got from the stories about it. It was the not having access to things like the risk assessments, and their protection team not being able to be armed. 

I think as well Siskin is right about why should UK Taxpayers pay for their protection when they are not working Royals. I do get that they said they would pay, but they wanted to pay for the full service - the things Siskin mentions around secret security arrangements and terrorist risk assessments, etc - but that isn't something they can buy. I guess if they could buy that does it set a precedent? 



O2.0 said:


> And I'm willing to bet that whoever found the money for Andrew also provided the money for them to use private security.


I believe it was reported that Charles is paying for Andrew's security, and pretty sure that is not the case with Harry and Meghan.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Psygon said:


> I think the arguments over the protection are more about what @Siskin has mentioned - or at least that's what I got from the stories about it. It was the not having access to things like the risk assessments, and their protection team not being able to be armed.
> 
> I think as well Siskin is right about why should UK Taxpayers pay for their protection when they are not working Royals. I do get that they said they would pay, but they wanted to pay for the full service - the things Siskin mentions around secret security arrangements and terrorist risk assessments, etc - but that isn't something they can buy. I guess if they could buy that does it set a precedent?
> 
> ...


Apparently there are some added extras with PPI, such as having immunity from prosecution (like diplomatic immunity I assume) and being able to keep your tax affairs secret


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## Dog Walker Woman (Dec 6, 2013)

Psygon said:


> secret security arrangements and terrorist risk assessments, etc - but that isn't something they can buy. I guess if they could buy that does it set a precedent?


Harry is of high risk because of who he is from birth so I feel he should get the protection he needs one way or another. They should help him in this as it is mainly for family events he wants to come.
There are not any other Princes likely to be in this position so not really a precedent.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Dog Walker Woman said:


> Harry is of high risk because of who he is from birth so I feel he should get the protection he needs one way or another. They should help him in this as it is mainly for family events he wants to come.
> There are not any other Princes likely to be in this position so not really a precedent.


So long as he is with a working member of the royals then he has full protection from the same people protecting the royal. You could argue that there is a number of royal that could be in this position in the future and as a precedent has been set it would be difficult to argue against.
The new issue now is that Harry speaking about how many taliban he has killed has upped his danger levels and apparently the PPI rules and regs state that if you bring added danger upon yourself then you lose the entitlement


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Dog Walker Woman said:


> Harry is of high risk because of who he is from birth so I feel he should get the protection he needs one way or another. They should help him in this as it is mainly for family events he wants to come.
> There are not any other Princes likely to be in this position so not really a precedent.


The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are provided with protection/security when attending public family events ie attending the service for the jubilee, the Queens funeral and walkabout to greet the public. Other non working members of the royal family are also given the same protection during public family events.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Harry is saying that the press is twisting what he said in the book about Taliban. he apparently said it help other vets who are suffering . good idea to read book but i cant be bothered,  It has sold a lot of copies so maybe when they've earned enough bucks they will move on to saving the world.They're like duracel batteries, they go on and on .
I think the RF paying the money to Virginia was a good thing because I assume it will be put to good use and help other victims who were drawn into this or use the money to sue the other men who were on the Lolita express . Andrew couldnt have paid it,


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Harry is saying that the press is twisting what he said in the book about Taliban. he apparently said it help other vets who are suffering . good idea to read book but i cant be bothered,  It has sold a lot of copies so maybe when they've earned enough bucks they will move on to saving the world.They're like duracel batteries, they go on and on .
> I think the RF paying the money to Virginia was a good thing because I assume it will be put to good use and help other victims who were drawn into this or use the money to sue the other men who were on the Lolita express . Andrew couldnt have paid it,


I read today that Harry has said the press are quoting that piece out of context, however he has clearly written that he was responsible for the deaths of 25 people and what his feeling were about that (chess pieces). He should not have put this in the book, it may be cathartic for him to write this, but it doesn’t help other servicemen some of whom have been triggered by this and fear the ‘baddies’ are coming for them, let alone the wider implications of increasing terroism in the uk. A lot of high ups in the forces are furious about this, let alone those serving overseas in danger zones


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

A tweet from Have I got news for you 


Prince Harry hits out at the media over ‘dangerous spin’ on excerpts from his book, after outlets have the audacity to print sections word-for-word.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I must admit, I didn't get the out of context. Yes it was 2 pages worth in the book but he did say the things they are quoting as @Siskin says.

It's very similar in my opinion how he's back tracked over something's he said or Meghan said in interviews; I am thinking Oprah.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Dog Walker Woman said:


> Prince Harry files legal claim over right to pay for UK police protection
> 
> 
> Duke of Sussex seeks judicial review of Home Office refusal to let him pay for protection after being chased by photographers last summer
> ...


And what was the outcome?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

SbanR said:


> And what was the outcome?


Isn’t it still ongoing?


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

I just watched Harold’s interview with Colbert on youtube. Bit cringey seeing him play the Hollywood celeb but it really got my back up as well.
Probably because he is very obviously playing to an American audience now and showing nothing but disdain not just for his family but his country. And it’s not like I’m a raving patriot or anything but it does feel like a betrayal. And I’m definitely no royalist. But that’s all the more reason as far as I’m concerned for me to not take the side of this wealthy manchild just because he decided he wants all the privileges of being a prince but none of the duty and drawbacks. Mad that a decade ago he was more popular than the queen here and now everyone loathes him. We are going a bit nuts over this and I’m sure it says something about us as a nation blah blah blah but it does feel like he’s shitting all over us.
I also get that he has experienced severe childhood trauma and he’s a flawed human being like the rest of us. I can still think he’s acting like a dick. He’s damned lucky to be able to afford the best therapy in the world so he has that going for him. And for the nth time I still can’t get over how his past racism is glossed over in the US and he’s getting actual awards for race relations or whatever. For any Americans reading who aren’t aware, the P word he used against a fellow soldier is considered extremely offensive over here, on a par with the N word (if he’d said _that_, it quite rightly wouldn’t be so easily forgiven I don’t think). You just don’t say that to/about people.
Not planning on reading the book as all the juicy bits have been leaked and he doesn’t need my money.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Siskin said:


> Isn’t it still ongoing?


No idea.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

An alternative series of comments on Spare, that argue Harry is exposing the press and, because most reviewers are linked to the media, we aren‘t seeing that side.

If you think the press don’t twist events, do read this.








Harried #4: Monsters Under Review


'Spare' is a showcase of Prince Harry as media critic. The reviewers can't tell you that.




brokenbottleboy.substack.com


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## Dog Walker Woman (Dec 6, 2013)

It is interesting how we all see and feel things so differently.
I just watched the Stephen Colbert interview and felt Harry came over as a genuine guy who is wanting to be who he is as a real person. 
He shares his stuff openly and wants to help others do the same through that.
It is the first set of YouTube comments about him (or usually him and Meghan) I've seen that have been empathic compassionate and positive.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

MollySmith said:


> If you think the press don’t twist events, do read this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


is everyone saying the press dont twist things? They do and have have picked on most of Royals and not just Meghan.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

MollySmith said:


> An alternative series of comments on Spare, that argue Harry is exposing the press and, because most reviewers are linked to the media, we aren‘t seeing that side.
> 
> If you think the press don’t twist events, do read this.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting that, interesting reading. It certainly puts into perspective some of the things that have been reported so far (I read the whole series of articles).


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I saw the UK interview, and have seen bits of the US one.

I was struck by the very different demeanour that he presented in either country; it was like seeing a different persona in each.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> is everyone saying the press dont twist things? They do and have have picked on most of Royals and not just Meghan.


I get a feeling that people may not appreciate just how much the press twist things - maybe I’m wrong in feeling that vibe. Or miss how biased some papers are to the Royal Family as the press promote them and devalue the Sussex.

Anyway Mic has compared extracts from Spare with reviews in the press including Murdoch‘s Times. And Pier’s Morgan. Makes more sense of Giles Coren‘s ‘review (also paid a wage by media) today too.

Worth a read - esp this last of the 4 posts. I think so, having never thought of Spare as a hit at the press!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Psygon said:


> Thanks for posting that, interesting reading. It certainly puts into perspective some of the things that have been reported so far (I read the whole series of articles).


Thanks. Mic is a good read about media manipulation and often breaks down the front pages of papers (across all political leanings)


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Ive been trying to upload an alleged page from the book about Harry slapping his body guard but it wont upload. 

Found a link



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmIhpr0aEAAFwmk?format=jpg&name=large


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

The press put spin on their content in most countries not just the UK. Apparently Harry has given an interview to People in the US which I don’t think is regarded as much more then a kind of redtop. For someone who doesn’t like the media he seems to be doing an awful lot of appearances with his list of scripted questions that the interviewer is allowed to ask.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Siskin said:


> The press put spin on their content in most countries not just the UK. Apparently Harry has given an interview to People in the US which I don’t think is regarded as much more then a kind of redtop. For someone who doesn’t like the media he seems to be doing an awful lot of appearances with his list of scripted questions that the interviewer is allowed to ask.


Agreed, yes they do, esp. when you think of how vast the Murdoch empire is, it's everywhere - and I imagine every country has a version of the Daily Wail. And it's not just the printed press either, GB News and especially Neil Oliver is mind boggling but has its fans.

I think much of what's been printed lately in the UK on Spare are book reviews written by those connected to certain papers (according to the link I shared) but I admit I've not kept up to date with the TV at all, I rarely watch it.

And yeah, agree - all this media hatred and yet he's pimping himself to selected media - how does that work!? It does make me wonder what the relationship is between Netflix is between other associations, and Transworld, the publishers. If I could be bothered, I'd find out but honestly not _that_ invested in this (and really must do my tax return!) but I bet there's some twist between who owns what.

I remember that during the phone hacking investigation, the then Guardian news editors who were the only ones who'd touch the story as they knew what a Goliath they were up against, got all sorts of awful threats. And having worked with ex-Fleet street folk, I can well imagine how utterly ruthless the environment is.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

MollySmith said:


> Agreed, yes they do, esp. when you think of how vast the Murdoch empire is, it's everywhere - and I imagine every country has a version of the Daily Wail. And it's not just the printed press either, GB News and especially Neil Oliver is mind boggling but has its fans.
> 
> I think much of what's been printed lately in the UK on Spare are book reviews written by those connected to certain papers (according to the link I shared) but I admit I've not kept up to date with the TV at all, I rarely watch it.
> 
> ...


Hadn’t thought of Netflix connections, you’re probably right, I bet there is a whole load of things that will get his time.

Have you watched the film called The Circle with Tom Hanks and Emma Watson. The control by a company not just amongst its employees but gradually everyone, was quite scary. It was released in 2017, but seemed to reflect a lot of what I happening now in certain areas


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