# Please help...Annabelle isn't right :(



## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

You may remember me writing about Hazel a little while ago, who went poorly and sadly later died 
Well anyway the vet had a look and said he thought it might of been a heart problem.
The rest of my rabbits were vaccinated for their VHD the day after she died, they would of been due a couple weeks later but I took them all in to be sure they were safe incase it was anything contagious...I was assured it wasn't.

Anyway, this morning, as normal I let the rabbits out and fed them, Annie ran out and sat in the garden grooming herself, as she does EVERY morning.
This evening I go out to give them their veggies and she is sat outside and wouldn't move. [Usually she would be running around my legs wanting her veg!] I picked her up! You cannot pick Annabelle up without a struggle! She didn't attempt to struggle and wouldn't touch her veg.

She's not dirty, not breathing heavy, no discharge, nothing seems out of order what so ever.

She's sat motionless in the shed while the other rabbits are tearing through their spring greens.

What is going on?!

If she's not changed by 9am tomorrow she is going to the vets....


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## zingy (Apr 29, 2012)

Have you got a thermometer? If you can, take her temperature and see what it is. If it's not normal, I'd be tempted to take her to a vet before morning. Too high could suggest infection and too low could suggest stasis and an inability to regulate her own body temperature.


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

zingy said:


> Have you got a thermometer? If you can, take her temperature and see what it is. If it's not normal, I'd be tempted to take her to a vet before morning. Too high could suggest infection and too low could suggest stasis and an inability to regulate her own body temperature.


I don't have a thermometer. The vets are closed at 8pm


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2012)

Is she moulting at the moment?
If she is then it could be a blockage due to ingesting too much fur (please don't take her temp that will most likely stress her too much), or she could have a case of bloat.
As she is hunched in the corner this suggests she is in pain, so my advise will be to phone your emergency vets and get her some pain relief, metocloprimide (gut stim) and some recovery food and possible some subcut fluids if she is dehydrated.

I'm afraid leaving her til morning will most likely be too late, when a rabbit stops eating they need immediate medical attention before the guts go into complete stasis which is very difficult to come back from


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> Is she moulting at the moment?
> If she is then it could be a blockage due to ingesting too much fur (please don't take her temp that will most likely stress her too much), or she could have a case of bloat.
> As she is hunched in the corner this suggests she is in pain, so my advise will be to phone your emergency vets and get her some pain relief, metocloprimide (gut stim) and some recovery food and possible some subcut fluids if she is dehydrated.
> 
> I'm afraid leaving her til morning will most likely be too late, when a rabbit stops eating they need immediate medical attention before the guts go into complete stasis which is very difficult to come back from


Hi Bernie,
She's not moulting, I had thought about this but no, not excessive moult at all.
She's not hunched she's sat quite normally, unlike what Im used to with poorly bunnies, she looks completely normal just not bothered about my presence like she usually is.
Iv just been in to check and she's moved and her head bolted up when I opened the shed door.
She didn't appear dehydrated, can this be checked the same as dogs, pulling the scruff and if it doesn't spring back? If this is how I check then, no not dehydrated as I checked when I had hold of her.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2012)

kate_7590 said:


> Hi Bernie,
> She's not moulting, I had thought about this but no, not excessive moult at all.
> She's not hunched she's sat quite normally, unlike what Im used to with poorly bunnies, she looks completely normal just not bothered about my presence like she usually is.
> Iv just been in to check and she's moved and her head bolted up when I opened the shed door.
> She didn't appear dehydrated, can this be checked the same as dogs, pulling the scruff and if it doesn't spring back? If this is how I check then, no not dehydrated as I checked when I had hold of her.


Is she eating, she is expressing unusual behaviour so something is def up


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> Is she eating, she is expressing unusual behaviour so something is def up


She wouldn't eat when I offered her greens, but she doesn't enjoy being handled so perhaps thats why she wouldn't eat while I was holding her?

They have nuggets in the morning along with ad lib hay and some readigrass, all of the nuggets and readigrass was gone this evening as usual and I added extra hay as I normally do.

Everything in their shed is the same, the other 2 are totally normal so I'm at a loss.
All the veg was gone when I went to check them a few minutes ago, wether she's eaten some or not I don't know, but she was lay out in the new hay with Charlie & Opal was drinking on the other side of the shed..nothing unusual


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2012)

You need to make sure she is definitely eating keep offering her yummy things until she eats something. If you wait until morning she could be in complete stasis.


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> You need to make sure she is definitely eating keep offering her yummy things until she eats something. If you wait until morning she could be in complete stasis.


Im going to drive to tesco now [its open 24/7] and get her some kale, which is her favourite, and some herbs to tempt her. I think ill make her some porridge too as she adores that.
Will update ASAP, thanks for your help bernie 

PS- She's just been drinking


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2012)

kate_7590 said:


> Im going to drive to tesco now [its open 24/7] and get her some kale, which is her favourite, and some herbs to tempt her. I think ill make her some porridge too as she adores that.
> Will update ASAP, thanks for your help bernie
> 
> PS- She's just been drinking


It's great that she is drinking  If she won't eat any of the nommy things (you can try weetabix too mine go crazy for that) you can mush up some of her normal pellets in warm water and syringe that just to get her started.


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> It's great that she is drinking  If she won't eat any of the nommy things (you can try weetabix too mine go crazy for that) you can mush up some of her normal pellets in warm water and syringe that just to get her started.


Thanks I will try that. I have some 5ml syringes in their shed so if she doesn't eat veggies I will try syringing.
Will update in the morning, off to tesco now *fingers crossed*


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2012)

Sending vibes xxx


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## zingy (Apr 29, 2012)

Hope she perks up with the fresh greens Kate  Fresh herbs can very often do the trick to get them eating again.



B3rnie said:


> please don't take her temp that will most likely stress her too much


I'm curious as to why you think this is the case. One of mine came down with suspected pneumonia a few months ago and my vet recommended taking her temperature on a regular basis so that I could monitor exactly what was going on and decide what to do with her. IMO it's a very useful guide and, for us, meant fewer vets trips and less investigation when she did have to go there, so far less stress overall. It's something that every pet owner should be able to do, especially as resting temperature at home can be quite different to stressed temperature at the vets following a car journey, and I'd suggest anyone who doesn't know how to do it correctly asks their vet and learns.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2012)

zingy said:


> Hope she perks up with the fresh greens Kate  Fresh herbs can very often do the trick to get them eating again.
> 
> I'm curious as to why you think this is the case. One of mine came down with suspected pneumonia a few months ago and my vet recommended taking her temperature on a regular basis so that I could monitor exactly what was going on and decide what to do with her. IMO it's a very useful guide and, for us, meant fewer vets trips and less investigation when she did have to go there, so far less stress overall. It's something that every pet owner should be able to do, especially as resting temperature at home can be quite different to stressed temperature at the vets following a car journey, and I'd suggest anyone who doesn't know how to do it correctly asks their vet and learns.


Because in this case the OP's rabbit has gut problems with so far an unknown cause, if it is a stress related slow down the stress caused by taking the temperature could cause the rabbit to go into complete stasis.
I can fully understand why your vet advised you to take the temp of your bun because there was a known infection so taking the temp was important 

I agree that taking temps is something that every pet owner should know how to do, however I will never advise causing un-necessary stress when we have no idea what caused the gut slow down initially. The important thing is to get bunny eating and pooping


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## zingy (Apr 29, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Because in this case the OP's rabbit has gut problems with so far an unknown cause, if it is a stress related slow down the stress caused by taking the temperature could cause the rabbit to go into complete stasis.
> I can fully understand why your vet advised you to take the temp of your bun because there was a known infection so taking the temp was important
> 
> I agree that taking temps is something that every pet owner should know how to do, however I will never advise causing un-necessary stress when we have no idea what caused the gut slow down initially. The important thing is to get bunny eating and pooping


Fair enough, thanks for the explanation


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

Just got back from the vets.
Said her heart and overall condition was fine, but her lungs were noisy. They have said pasterella [sp?] so have given me a 7 day course of baytril.
Fingers crossed she pulls through


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2012)

kate_7590 said:


> Just got back from the vets.
> Said her heart and overall condition was fine, but her lungs were noisy. They have said pasterella [sp?] so have given me a 7 day course of baytril.
> Fingers crossed she pulls through


I hope to god it isn't snuffles  Once she has that she will always be a carrier and will be very contagious when she is expressing symptoms 

Baytril is ok for a few days but if she hasn't shown any improvement within a week I would be requesting a stronger antibiotic (septrin is normally the next step).

You would know if she had snuffles that is for certain so for now I think the vet means she has a simple respiratory infection.

Here is a link to more about Pasturella just in case I've got it wrong
Pasteurella


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> I hope to god it isn't snuffles  Once she has that she will always be a carrier and will be very contagious when she is expressing symptoms
> 
> Baytril is ok for a few days but if she hasn't shown any improvement within a week I would be requesting a stronger antibiotic (septrin is normally the next step).
> 
> ...


Iv just got back from shopping and she was sat behind the shed which isn't usual for her.
Iv bought them some more parsley and nice big cabbages, she's sniffing at the parsley but not overly interested.
She had first dose of baytril at about 11am, she also had a pain relief injection at the vets.
She seems a lot ore alert than yesterday and was trying to push past me to get out of the shed again just now.

Thanks for the link. I will look at it later in more depth


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

Just got back home..been out for a meal with parents and M.I.L.
Went to put the rabbits to bed armed with cabbage and parsley...she wasn't in the shed, wasn't in the hutch, couldn't find her in the garden.
Looked round the back of the shed and she was lay there 

Im in shock...I thought she was going to get better I really did.
The vet sounded really positive and said if she's no better/ still not right in 7 days to come back, she even commented how good it was that we caught it early as it was far easier to treat.

Why has this happened then?!

Really feeling like a failure now...thats 2 beautiful healthy young rabbits that I have failed in the space of a couple of months :'(


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2012)

Oh no I'm so sorry hun 
Unfortunately rabbits hide symptoms until they are really poorly, don't blame yourself you did everything you needed to for her [hugs]


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

So sorry to hear this, just read through and was hoping a happy ending was coming 
As Bernie said, buns are very good at hiding pain and symptoms, and something more serious could have been going on 
You did what you could and got her to the vets.
RIP little one x x 

*Heidi*


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> Oh no I'm so sorry hun
> Unfortunately rabbits hide symptoms until they are really poorly, don't blame yourself you did everything you needed to for her [hugs]


Thanks.
Do you think it could of been snuffles/ pasterella?
Wouldn't there of been more symptoms before her dying? Surely there should of been more time :'(

It seemed exactly the same as what little Hazel did, Im not terrified about the other 2 buns. Is there anything at all I can do??


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

hazyreality said:


> So sorry to hear this, just read through and was hoping a happy ending was coming
> As Bernie said, buns are very good at hiding pain and symptoms, and something more serious could have been going on
> You did what you could and got her to the vets.
> RIP little one x x
> ...


Thanks hun


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2012)

kate_7590 said:


> Thanks.
> Do you think it could of been snuffles/ pasterella?
> Wouldn't there of been more symptoms before her dying? Surely there should of been more time :'(
> 
> It seemed exactly the same as what little Hazel did, Im not terrified about the other 2 buns. Is there anything at all I can do??


No idea hun, without seeing bunny myself the best I can guess is a respiratory infection 
Some buns are just not strong enough to get better  The only way to be certain of what it was is to get the vet to preform a necropsy.


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> No idea hun, without seeing bunny myself the best I can guess is a respiratory infection
> Some buns are just not strong enough to get better  The only way to be certain of what it was is to get the vet to preform a necropsy.


Wouldn't it be strange for 2 rabbits to go the same way within a short time of each other, neither had discharge from anywhere, both had been super healthy rabbits with absolutely no previous problems before this happened.

The vets said they could send her away for checking but they said it would cost £300 +  They didn't really recommend it anyway.

Sorry for keeping on about it, just grasping at straws really.


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2012)

kate_7590 said:


> Wouldn't it be strange for 2 rabbits to go the same way within a short time of each other, neither had discharge from anywhere, both had been super healthy rabbits with absolutely no previous problems before this happened.
> 
> The vets said they could send her away for checking but they said it would cost £300 +  They didn't really recommend it anyway.
> 
> Sorry for keeping on about it, just grasping at straws really.


A necropsy will not cost £300+ it only adds up to that if you have to send tissue samples off, and why the hell would he not recommend it when you have rabbits at home , I would phone around to see if you can get a better quote.

As you have had two rabbits go the same way I think a necropsy is very important 

Can I also suggest that you find a better rabbit vet? I'm sorry but your's sound useless 

And don't be sorry you need answers so I will help as much as I can.


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> A necropsy will not cost £300+ it only adds up to that if you have to send tissue samples off, and why the hell would he not recommend it when you have rabbits at home , I would phone around to see if you can get a better quote.
> 
> As you have had two rabbits go the same way I think a necropsy is very important
> 
> ...


As soon as i read this I rang the vets, they said because she had died last night it would be too late to do any checks really, most likely they would come back inconclusive 

Iv been really OTT with the 2 in the shed today, making sure they're okay and clean etc.
They seem fine, but poor Charlie [Annabelles husbun] seems really lost,... they were always together and she helped him find his way round, now he's on his own because Opal doesn't bother with him  its quite sad to see him wondering around on his own looking for her 

I would like to thank you Bernie so much for helping and replying to everything iv posted


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2012)

For future reference so long as the body is kept cool then it is viable for 48 hours, that vet practice are talking bumkum sorry hun 

And no problems with replying to your threads, it's what we are here for


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