# Diet/supplements for old dogs for brain function?



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I got some Aktivait for Inca a few weeks back to help brain function and prevent her getting CCD. 

As she doesn't like tablets I've been giving her a wet kong (Naturediet) or stuffed in one of those bones that were previously stuffed with turkey for xmas. (she doesn't bother with the bones just likes emptying them) for breakfast with the Aktivait in.

Other than I've noticed her light raincoat is getting a little tighter suggesting that she's gained weight, she also seems to be more nervous and will sit trembling and just want to go to bed (sleeps on my bed) this was like 5pm. There was nothing scary happening at the time..only JJ playing on rug, though he had zoomies abit as been raining all day here so no football in garden, only their two walks.

I was wondering if there are known side effects to the Aktivait? I'm not sure whether to give her dose a miss tomorrow?

It had made her less grumpy with JJ when she started on it and seemed to be helping and she was playing more but she seemed to have gone back to sleeping most of the time. She's not really interested in playing in garden but it is cold and I can't stay out there too long with JJ before I'm turning blue, but hoping can encourage her out more in summer when can get paddling pool out and leave back door open all day for them to sit in sun. 

She seems to grumble alot when moving around at night (she's been on Mobile Bones since she was 10 to prevent arthritis and can still run!) and can feel her tummy like what I call 'washing machine tummy', she's on JWB senior which is a low protein level (only about 18% I think), not every night though. 

I'm thinking of trying her on the Bob & Lush or Fishmongers Salmon & Potato that both have higher protein levels than she's been on. Do you think they will give her more energy without needing the Aktivait? Maybe less carbs (JWB has more rice & barley in) will help her lose weight? She doesn't have as much kibble as what's on the feeding guide. 

I know fish is meant to be excellent for brain function and would be lower in fat than the duck that JJ is having? . are they any other supplements which might help without side effects?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

My old collie is on Aktivait and as far as I am aware there are no known side affects.

It contains 70mg fish oil powder.

As it takes about 8 weeks to get into their system I would doubt the Aktivait has anything to do with her nervousness or grumbling at night.

Has she seen a vet recently as it may well be pain caused by arthritis for which your vet will prescribe something like Rimadyl/Metacam/Previcox if needed?


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

she's not been on it 8 weeks yet.

I did wonder if she was in pain..maybe the mobile Bones is not working as well as I thought? She can run though in short spurts, though doesn't always feel like doing so I think like myself it depends on the weather to how stiff she is?

Somedays her age really seems to show, others you wouldn't think she was nearly 12! It's her birthday in a few weeks so I'm hoping that some new toys might spark her interest again and hopefully warmer weather to sit out in sun. 

I'm not keen on medications due to side effects (my neuro condition was caused by medication I couldn't NOT take at the time) I'd prefer to try holistic/herbal first...rescue remedy etc. I read tumeric and liquorice are good but not sure if they mean to give the dog liquorice (like sweets) or if there's some remedy/herbal tablet thats specially to use on dogs as painkiller?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

My oldest collie is now 14.1/2 yrs old and still belts down the paddock twice daily on her walks. She also charges round the sofa after toys at every given opportunity but that doesn't mean she isn't suffering from arthritis or isn't in pain. The collie brain over-rides pain much of the time.

I absolutely hate NSAIDS and avoid them for as long as possible but there usually comes a time when there really is no choice, in my experience with old dogs.

Have you tried a Bioflow collar as they can make a huge difference with some elderly dogs?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> I got some Aktivait for Inca a few weeks back to help brain function and prevent her getting CCD.
> 
> As she doesn't like tablets I've been giving her a wet kong (Naturediet) or stuffed in one of those bones that were previously stuffed with turkey for xmas. (she doesn't bother with the bones just likes emptying them) for breakfast with the Aktivait in.
> 
> ...


If she has lower exercise intolerance and is putting on weight regardless of no change to diet and also also becoming nervous and has behaviour changes too. It might even be worth asking the vet about a thyroid function test. Ive had several dogs that once into double figures they suffered from Reduced thyroid function and classics signs are weight gain, exercise intolerance it can also cause muscle weakness and stiffness and behavioural changes amogst a host of other clinical signs. Its just a matter of taking a blood sample.

Clinical Signs of Canine Hypothyroidism


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Twiggy said:


> My oldest collie is now 14.1/2 yrs old and still belts down the paddock twice daily on her walks. She also charges round the sofa after toys at every given opportunity but that doesn't mean she isn't suffering from arthritis or isn't in pain. The collie brain over-rides pain much of the time.
> 
> I absolutely hate NSAIDS and avoid them for as long as possible but there usually comes a time when there really is no choice, in my experience with old dogs.
> 
> Have you tried a Bioflow collar as they can make a huge difference with some elderly dogs?


I've seen them..would she wear it instead of her regular collar all day? or just when she goes to bed? what happens on walks when need to attach lead (metal clips) etc will they be attracted to the magnet?

I'm wheelchair user so in a metal framed chair all day moving about around her...are things like this going to affect how it works? have visions of her head been pulled towards the chair frame when she comes past me or near to me do something! 

I seem to create static..lol everytime I go to press a metal lift button when out shopping I get electrical shock my friend reckons its cos I'm sat in a metal chair cos she never gets one?


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Twiggy said:


> My oldest collie is now 14.1/2 yrs old and still belts down the paddock twice daily on her walks. She also charges round the sofa after toys at every given opportunity but that doesn't mean she isn't suffering from arthritis or isn't in pain. The collie brain over-rides pain much of the time.
> 
> I absolutely hate NSAIDS and avoid them for as long as possible but there usually comes a time when there really is no choice, in my experience with old dogs.
> 
> Have you tried a Bioflow collar as they can make a huge difference with some elderly dogs?


Is this the collie on Aktivait? How many do you give your dog? I've got the blister packs but lost the box. I'd started her on one a day as she usually has Mobile Bones mixed in with her dinner at night but wasn't sure if should increase it to two? She's always been around 20kg mark though maybe slightly heavier now she's gained a bit of weight.

When did you see improvements in behaviour etc? I'm not sure if her weight gain was side effect or from the wet food which she'd never had before. It was bought when I was looking for something JJ wasn't allergic to and got a job lot of senior/lite and puppy/junior for them to try. (Naturediet)

I will email vet and ask how much would be for thyroid testing plus home visit and examination. He may as well check JJ over while he's here so may as well pay cost of one full home visit once (£80 I think before we got onto what tests/meds she might need)

If it is thyroid.. don't they give them T4 or T3 same as people have? as I already have free prescription for life been born with under active thyroid..and tbh don't remember to take them every single day so have about a full months tablets floating about in half empty boxes before next prescription came (they deliver to me automatically as I'm housebound)

I was thinking could try her on some to see if it is that before it going on my insurance and bumping up my premiums next year..lol! (if its exactly same as what they give humans why not use my free supply?)

I'll try a bioflow collar maybe at night when she's laid on my bed as she goes to bed around 7pm until next morning then remove it when we go for walk and she's moving about near my chair?

I'd like to work out if it was pain first as the tests might not be needed if weight gain is just from the wet food and her issues are just from pain/old age which the bioflow collar might help with? (and the Aktivait once it starts working)

Thanks


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## Beth17 (Jun 5, 2012)

I really wouldn't advise self medicating her for thyroid issues as you have no idea is she actually needs it or not. The thyroid test for my boy was around £60 a blood test and he had to have 3 or 4 in a short space of time before the dosage was right. He is now on 6 monthly checks.
With regards to the weight gain it could be from the wet food if you haven't been decreasing her actual food to compensate.

I think she sounds like she needs a vet check to be honest with you.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I'll take her off wet for a bit and try her on fishmongers salmon & potato see if the higher protein and no grains help reduce weight as she'd be using more of the protein. 

I was wondering about JJ's wafcol salmon & potato puppy food he can't have thats grain free for her. They tend to put stuff in to help puppies brain development and strong bones & stuff for food marketed specifically as puppy food. Surely it would also work to keep older dogs bones string and prevent like osteoarthritis and help brain function? 

Inca's James Wellbeloved senior is 18% protein only.. has glucosamine in but also rice & barley. I did think of letting her try the Eden to finish it off as still got half a bag of that but it would depend if her poo's are get as stinky as JJ's did. I can try her though as she does like scrambled egg so might not have a problem with the egg and higher protein levels might give her brain a boost and 'wake her up' a bit. 

I've got a bioflow collar to try first so see if that makes a difference see if can rule out pain levels just causing depression or something, think I need to see if they will raise limit on my credit card to sort out vets visit and testing for her! (have to pay first and claim back with Inca's Insurance). If it wasn't a month before this damn bedroom tax where I know I'm gonna have to use money for rent from April it wouldn't be so bad!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> I've seen them..would she wear it instead of her regular collar all day? or just when she goes to bed? what happens on walks when need to attach lead (metal clips) etc will they be attracted to the magnet?
> 
> I'm wheelchair user so in a metal framed chair all day moving about around her...are things like this going to affect how it works? have visions of her head been pulled towards the chair frame when she comes past me or near to me do something!
> 
> I seem to create static..lol everytime I go to press a metal lift button when out shopping I get electrical shock my friend reckons its cos I'm sat in a metal chair cos she never gets one?


Good gracious no...LOL I can assure you Inca won't be pulled towards your chair and you won't get an electric shock from it.

A Bioflow collar looks pretty much like a normal woven fabric adjustable collar and you can attach a lead to it. The magnet is small and in the middle on the inside of the collar so that it makes contact with the dog's skin.

Most owners leave them on permanently but I take Quiver's off last thing at night until 7.00am in the morning.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

oh rite.. can it be left on at night and taken off for walks? 

Inca's always had designer leather collars. lol.. and her tags will be hard for me to keep transferring between collars due fine motor difficulties (live on my own so don't have help to do this every day) 

My plan would be to put it on when got back from walks and leave it on overnight so relive pain at night if that's safe?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> oh rite.. can it be left on at night and taken off for walks?
> 
> Inca's always had designer leather collars. lol.. and her tags will be hard for me to keep transferring between collars due fine motor difficulties (live on my own so don't have help to do this every day)
> 
> My plan would be to put it on when got back from walks and leave it on overnight so relive pain at night if that's safe?


No the collar needs to be on more or less all the time and in your case that's what I would do. Just attach the tag to it and clip on the lead when you walk her. It really is just like a normal collar to all intents and purposes. I tend to have my dogs collars fairly loose but with the Bioflow it needs to fit fairly tightly for the magnet to make contact with the dog. I should leave Quiver's on permanently but I'm a soft touch....LOL


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Twiggy said:


> Good gracious no...LOL I can assure you Inca won't be pulled towards your chair and you won't get an electric shock from it.
> 
> A Bioflow collar looks pretty much like a normal woven fabric adjustable collar and you can attach a lead to it. The magnet is small and in the middle on the inside of the collar so that it makes contact with the dog's skin.
> 
> Most owners leave them on permanently but I take Quiver's off last thing at night until 7.00am in the morning.


can't find a pink one.. lol!.. her neck is 36cm if needs to be really tight (measured above where her collar is... maybe small fit her? (up to 45cm) there's doesn't seem to be a medium?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> can't find a pink one.. lol!.. her neck is 36cm if needs to be really tight (measured above where her collar is... maybe small fit her? (up to 45cm) there's doesn't seem to be a medium?


It doesn't need to be really tight, otherwise it would be uncomfortable, just slightly tighter than a normal collar.

I've just measured Quiver's whilst it's on her and it's 41cm but she is quite a big bitch. They are very adjustable. I think Quiver's was probably the large, judging by the amount of slack after adjustment.

HTH


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I got a small as went up to 45cm i thought large maybe too big to work if too much give as her measurement is mid 30's. 

I'll try this one first see if it fits, if not just have to return it for a large. 

Thanks


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

don't waste your money on magic collars. They are total mumbo jumbo. Buy her a nice toy with the money instead. She'll get much more out of it.

I can't believe that people today still believe in the "power of magnetism". It's a load of ********.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> don't waste your money on magic collars. They are total mumbo jumbo. Buy her a nice toy with the money instead. She'll get much more out of it.
> 
> I can't believe that people today still believe in the "power of magnetism". It's a load of ********.


How will a toy help with pain? ..she has some new toys coming as its her birthday in 2 weeks!


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

thye will cheer her up! A magic collar won't cheer her up :frown5:


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## SueBoo (Apr 24, 2012)

Old Shep said:


> thye will cheer her up! A magic collar won't cheer her up :frown5:


.......................


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

well yeah but what abut rest of year and times she's in pain? They won't help her then! 

Anyone with any useful experience of Bioflow collars whose dogs it actually worked for?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> well yeah but what abut rest of year and times she's in pain? They won't help her then!
> 
> Anyone with any useful experience of Bioflow collars whose dogs it actually worked for?


Yes several of mine. Plus loads of others and horses and humans.

As I said originally, they don't work for everyone.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

They don't work for anyone. What you experience is called the placebo effect. Look it up. It holds up the entire "alternative" health industry and makes them a mint. Don't be so gullable.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> They don't work for anyone. What you experience is called the placebo effect. Look it up. It holds up the entire "alternative" health industry and makes them a mint. Don't be so gullable.


Dogs don't understand the 'placebo effect' theory though, they aren't gonna suddenly start pretending to NOT be in be in pain and been more mobile than they were before are they? .. when they were clearly stiffer and in pain before?

How do you explain that?


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

Old Shep said:


> They don't work for anyone. What you experience is called the placebo effect. Look it up. It holds up the entire "alternative" health industry and makes them a mint. Don't be so gullable.


People have the right to try things that they think will help their pets. No need to be rude about it. 

And I don't see how animals can be clever enough for a 'Placebo' effect to work lol. I can't imagine a dog looking at a collar and suddenly believing its pain has gone because of the collar..... !


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Hanlou said:


> People have the right to try things that they think will help their pets. No need to be rude about it.
> 
> And I don't see how animals can be clever enough for a 'Placebo' effect to work lol. I can't imagine a dog looking at a collar and suddenly believing its pain has gone because of the collar..... !


I agree about the rudeness. However, there is evidence for a placebo effect in dogs. In the case of magnetic collars etc there is also a caregiver placebo effect. Often these things are not used in isolation anyway and so the improvement seen could be due to, for example, dietary supplements or even changes in the routine and management of the dog.
On one hand, I really hate all of these "miracle cures" such as magnetic collars or the even more ludicrous holographic bands because they have been proven time and time again to have no effect and yet, companies are allowed to continue selling them with claims of their therapeutic benefit backed up by some dodgy science and anecdotes.
On the other hand, it is not going to do the dog any harm, and so if people want to spend their money on them then that is their choice...


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

*sigh*

it's very simple.

Using objective measures, there is no difference when measuring the effect of these "treatments".

Using subjective measures (which in the case of animals is asking the owners how _they _think the animal is) they respond to placebo.

the comments about animals not being subject to placebo is a common fallacy.

I just wish people would do a little reading around all these miricle cures before subjecting their poor animals to useless (and often harmful) treatments.

Try and use a little common sense.

...and where have I been rude. Please point it out to me, because I can't see it.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> They don't work for anyone. What you experience is called the placebo effect. Look it up. It holds up the entire "alternative" health industry and makes them a mint. Don't be so gullable.


Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I mine.

How can it be a placebo effect on a dog?


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

please read my reply. I have already explained why that happens. It's not difficult to understand.

and it's not my opinion that these things are rubbish. It's fact.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> please read my reply. I have already explained why that happens. It's not difficult to understand.
> 
> and it's not my opinion that these things are rubbish. It's fact.


Is this your reply:

*Using subjective measures (which in the case of animals is asking the owners how they think the animal is) they respond to placebo.

the comments about animals not being subject to placebo is a common fallacy.*

Because if it is then I don't agree.

I've had dogs and horses all my life and I think by now I know how they should move.

Putting a Bioflow collar on my old girl a few months back there was a definite improvement in her ease of movement and there had been no other change (diet, supplements, etc.).


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

just exactly what do you not agree with?

The fact that the placebo effect works on a subjective level?

That objective measures fail to show any positive response?

I'm confused by your reply.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

A friend of mine has used them on several of her older dogs and they have appeared to have worked, so much so she brought the bioflow bracelet and said it did help with her shoulder and elbow problems.

A lot of people dont believe that natural therapies work in what ever form but there is a lot that do, each to their own.

The reason there are not clinical and scientific studies a lot of the time is that the pharmacuetical companies have to pay for them before they can be marketed as in conventional drugs then they are patented and they have exclusive rights. For exisiting things they cant claim a patent and have the exclusive rights so therefore are not going to put money into products that they in turn cant make money out of.

People got by on natural and herbal remedies before pharmacuetical companies made conventional medicines. Even the use of leeches has been brought back, I know someone who cut their thumb off and they used leech theraphy only a few months ago for example when the thumb was surgically re-attached. So some of the old methods are probably not so barmy after all.


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> The reason there are not clinical and scientific studies a lot of the time is that the pharmacuetical companies have to pay for them before they can be marketed as in conventional drugs then they are patented and they have exclusive rights.


In the case of magnets etc then scientific studies can be done by anyone. I suspect that the main reason that the companies marketing these bioflow products do not run such trials is because they know what the outcome will be.
There have been several studies looking at the efficacy of magnet therapy and the well-run studies have shown that they do not have any effect above that of a placebo control. The main problem with magnet therapy is that is it difficult to run a blind trial as it is pretty easy to tell if you have a magnet attached to you...

There is also a big difference between natural/herbal remedies that have been _proven_ to work and things like magnetic/holographic accessories that have been proven to have no effect.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Dimwit said:


> There have been several studies looking at the efficacy of magnet therapy and the well-run studies have shown that they do not have any effect above that of a placebo control. The main problem with magnet therapy is that is it difficult to run a blind trial as it is pretty easy to tell if you have a magnet attached to you...


Granted I can see that a person may have a placebo effect as they know they are wearing a magnetic bracelet or whatever, but does a dog know any different if its wearing a collar with magnets or its normal conventional collar.
Quite simply it doesnt, all it knows is that its got something round its neck that it usually wears anyway.


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Granted I can see that a person may have a placebo effect as they know they are wearing a magnetic bracelet or whatever, but does a dog know any different if its wearing a collar with magnets or its normal conventional collar.


It may get some clue when metal objects start attaching themselves to its collar

Joking aside, if they have been shown to have no effect in humans then you could say that they will also have no effect in dogs, and any perceived improvements will be due to some sort of placebo effectc; either canine or human (and there is evidence that you can see placebo effects in dogs as well as people).


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

yet again (for the third time)

there is objective evidence (which shows they do not work. At all. Full stop) and subjective evidence, which is influenced by the placebo effect.

Clearly, in the case of animals, subjective evidence (or, more accuratly "subjective experience", but that's another discussion) consists of asking the _owner_ how the dog has been and the owner (who knows of the use of the miracle cure) is influenced by the placebo effect.

When trials are double blinded (ie. the owner and whoever is asking) doesn't know if they have had the placebo or the miracle cure, guess what? *They don't work.*
Don't they cover the heirarchy of evidence anymore in science in schools? It's pretty basic stuff.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Whatever!! not going to waste energy arguing as mainly I cant be arsed. Fact remains there does seem to be results people are happy with the results, like anything else in life there are always going to be doubters and ones that are happy with their lot. People should always be guided by their own experiences and ideals.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

> People should always be guided by their own experiences and ideals.


and then we would still be boiling newts eyes and bloodletting. To choose to ignore science is to remain in the dark ages.

Don't fool yourselves, charlatans make millions out of these magic cures. It is a billion pound industry founded on ignorance and desperation.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> and then we would still be boiling newts eyes and bloodletting. To choose to ignore science is to remain in the dark ages.
> 
> Nobody is ignoring science IMO and if, as you say, scientists are so sure that magnetic therapy doesn't work then why are there so many trials still ongoing?


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## SueBoo (Apr 24, 2012)

Twiggy said:


> Old Shep said:
> 
> 
> > and then we would still be boiling newts eyes and bloodletting. To choose to ignore science is to remain in the dark ages.
> ...


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> and then we would still be boiling newts eyes and bloodletting. To choose to ignore science is to remain in the dark ages.
> 
> Don't fool yourselves, charlatans make millions out of these magic cures. It is a billion pound industry founded on ignorance and desperation.


Well they still use leeches like I said they used them on the bloke up the road when he chopped his thumb off after surgery a few months ago.

They also use maggots for debridement of wounds too come to that
Current status of maggot therapy

In 1995, a handful of doctors in 4 countries were using MDT. Today, any physician in the U.S. can prescribe maggot therapy. Over 4,000 therapists are using maggot therapy in 20 countries. Approximately 50,000 treatments were applied to wounds in the year 2006.

In January 2004, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) began regulating medicinal maggots, and allowed the production and marketing of one particular strain of Phaenicia sericata larvae marketed under the brand name Medical Maggots (TM). In February, 2004, the British National Health Service (NHS) permitted its doctors to prescribe maggot therapy. Patients no longer have to be referred to one of a few regional wound-specialty hospitals to get maggot treatments.

The BioTherapeutics, Education & Research Foundation was established in 2003 for the purpose of supporting patient care, education, and research in maggot therapy and the other forms of symbiotic medicine (diagnosing and/or treating diseases with live animals, such as maggot therapy, leech therapy, honey bee therapy, pet therapy & sniffer dogs, ichthiotherapy, bacteriotherapy etc).

http://www.medicaledu.com/maggots.htm#Current status of maggot therapy

So not exactly a million miles from bloodletting and boiling newts eyes, although newts eyes would admittedly be frowned on as several species are now protected.
:001_tongue:


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

so besides leeches & maggots, anything else my old dog might find useful??


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

interesting the way people slew the argument around to something we are not discussing in the desparate hope that it bolsters their view (it's actually got a name. It's called the straw man fallacy).

Please DO tell me the name of the body who are researching the use of magnets, and what aspect of their use they are researching. I'd love to know!!


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> so besides leeches & maggots, anything else my old dog might find useful??


there's no end of magic cures out there! The more preposterous the better. The Daily Mail often reports on them


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> there's no end of magic cures out there! The more preposterous the better. The Daily Mail often reports on them


I don't remember asking for a magic cure!..just supplements or natural remedies that might help with aging and pain in my dog other than prescription medication with side effects.

She's been on Mobile Bones supplement since she was 10yrs old and it has helped..maybe there's something similar but for pain relief or symptoms of CCD.

I thought the people who did Yumove supplements were bringing one out specifically for it but I can't find it mentioned on their site.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> and then we would still be boiling newts eyes and bloodletting. To choose to ignore science is to remain in the dark ages.
> 
> Don't fool yourselves, charlatans make millions out of these magic cures. It is a billion pound industry founded on ignorance and desperation.





Old Shep said:


> interesting the way people slew the argument around to something we are not discussing in the desparate hope that it bolsters their view (it's actually got a name. It's called the straw man fallacy).
> 
> Please DO tell me the name of the body who are researching the use of magnets, and what aspect of their use they are researching. I'd love to know!!


Ahem your the one who bought up Blood letting and Boiled Newts eyes not me, I was in fact answering that in fact Maggots are still used and so are leeches.

So if anyones slewing the answers round to something we are not discussing wasnt me, So Im not the one with Straw Man fallacy. Just pointing out your answer wasnt strictly true.

Your the one who was being sarky Im just taking the P**s


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> I don't remember asking for a magic cure!..just supplements or natural remedies that might help with aging and pain in my dog other than prescription medication with side effects.
> 
> She's been on Mobile Bones supplement since she was 10yrs old and it has helped..maybe there's something similar but for pain relief or symptoms of CCD.
> 
> I thought the people who did Yumove supplements were bringing one out specifically for it but I can't find it mentioned on their site.


Do apologise inca the pup. These might be of help. Its from the Natural medicines centre suggestions on natural remedies, Run by Richard Allport who is both a conventional vet and now practices Natural therapies. A conventional vet has to train further for I think its an additional five years to do natural and alternative therapies. Although Old shep will probably still say his a witch doctor

arthritis/joint problems

Animate: a powder containing a natural source of Chrondroitin with Vitamin C especially useful in the early stages of arthritis.

Can B: a supplement containing minerals and vitamins (especially Boron) which help to strengthen bones and joints

Cortavet: a supplement containing Chondroitin, Glucosamine Hyaluronic acid and MSM, chondroprotective agents which promote cartilage formation and joint lubrication.

Magnopulse magnetic collar: the magnetic field of this collar stimulates blood flow to diseased tissue and has an anti inflammatory and pain killing effect.

Yarrow: a combination of herbs that have traditionally been used to relieve inflammation and stiffness of joints.

Animal Magic Vitamin C & Royal Jelly: helps strengthen weakened bones and joints.

Arthotabs: a supplement containing green lipped mussel and other nutrients that nourish diseased joints and help relieve symptoms of arthritis.

Cartamine: a Glucosamine based supplement that helps repair damaged cartilage in arthritic joints.

Cod Liver Oil: a fish oil supplement proven to improve joint mobility.

Glycovetriflex: a supplement containing green lipped mussel and other natural remedies that improve strength and flexibility of arthritic joints.

Dr Reckeweg R 73: a homoeopathic combination for arthritis, especially of the back, shoulders, hips and knees

http://www.naturalmedicinecentre.co.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

> I don't remember asking for a magic cure!..just supplements or natural remedies


they are all magic cures.

SDH. I was using the refernece to newts eyes and bloodletting as an example of where medicine would be without scientific advances (as well you know).

It was you who seemed to think the fact that the use of amggots and leeches are being studied somehow progresses the argument for magnetic therapy FFS!!

Get a grip, woman!


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

Oh! You are absolutly right, SDH. He is, in fact, the head witch doctor!

The British Veterinary Voodoo Society

The Vets Who Make People Feel Better | The Quackometer Blog

Interestingly, the American Veterinary Medicine Association is currently debating the use of complimentary medicine

Homeopathy debate heats up as AVMA policy review nears - DVM

The british vets are in on it too.
Sceptical Vet: Eminence or Evidence? - YouTube

The witch doctor's days are numbered. Soon they will be consigned to the room containing the newts' eyes and frogs' toes.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> they are all magic cures.
> 
> SDH. I was using the refernece to newts eyes and bloodletting as an example of where medicine would be without scientific advances (as well you know).
> 
> ...


Dont need to get a grip thanks quite happy with the way I am, Its you whos being a misterable sarky old bag lately and going off on a regular rant. HRT not working then?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> Oh! You are absolutly right, SDH. He is, in fact, the head witch doctor!
> 
> The British Veterinary Voodoo Society
> 
> ...


How predictable you are.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I disaprove of using medicine derived from such cruel conditions.

I find dancing naked around the willow tree in my garden on a full moon is all I need to stave off the menopause.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> I disaprove of using medicine derived from such cruel conditions.
> 
> I find dancing naked around the willow tree in my garden on a full moon is all I need to stave off the menopause.


Might do you more good because obviously nothing else your taking is improving your status quo apparently.

You could also try plant derived medication if you dont want to se conventional HRT

Natural Plant Hormones Can Provide Menopause Relief - Fact or Fiction? | menopauseonline.com


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> I disaprove of using medicine derived from such cruel conditions.
> 
> I find dancing naked around the willow tree in my garden on a full moon is all I need to stave off the menopause.


Anyway I thought you were all for conventional pharmacueticals they are tested on animals.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I'm not complaining about testing stuff on animals (a discussion for another day) just the method of obtaining oestrogen for HRT. I quite like horses.

The natural stuff is most probably mumbo jumbo (I haven't read anything to convince me otherwise.)

No, I'll continue with my monthly naked dancing around my (admittedly spindly) willow tree. At least it makes the neighbours laugh.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> I'm not complaining about testing stuff on animals (a discussion for another day) just the method of obtaining oestrogen for HRT. I quite like horses.
> 
> The natural stuff is most probably mumbo jumbo (I haven't read anything to convince me otherwise.)
> 
> No, I'll continue with my monthly naked dancing around my (admittedly spindly) willow tree. At least it makes the neighbours laugh.


Well you make me laugh too old shep.


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I try my best, Sled Dog!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Old Shep said:


> I try my best, Sled Dog!


Think we just need to agree that we will disagree on some things and call it a day!!


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## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

absolutly! Life is too short.


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