# have i made a bad decision?



## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

One and a half weeks ago I lost my 12 year old Springer Spaniel, it left quite a hole in my life.
I have another Springer cross, and she was fantastic during the time of loss to me and she is my little rock. she is 11 years old.

I have since been looking for another Springer pup to fill the gap that my late Jake left.

In my area was only one Springer Spaniel available but he is 6 months old.

I decided to buy him today, but now i'm regretting it because he is totally all over Chloe even though she has been spaid, and he won't leave her alone.
Chloe is looking at me in a way of discust that i have bought a strainge dog into the house, and she also tried to fight with him as he's a stranger in her home.

Have i made a bad decision to bring a pre owned 6 month old dog into the house? should i have been better off introducing a 6 to 8 week old puppy instead?

I don't know what to do, and am worried that my Chloe will become depressed with all the pestering she is now getting, as she is an old dog herself now.

I do have the option to return the 6 month old pup back to his previous owners, but i don't think they are very keen to want him back.

any advice greatly appreciated.

thanks


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

hes an excitable puppy give him a few days and see how he goes? maybe crate train him, so when he pesters her too much he can go in there and calm down


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

If it helps my dog was less than impressed when I introduced a 9 week puppy. After a week there is some improvement. I had lots of helpful suggestions on a thread i started. I'm sure yours will get better in time as well.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

A time ago i was in same situation as you, and felt so guilty at what i had done, my oldie looked so sad at this new pup i had bought into the home, but as time went by my 2 dogs became good pals the pup grew to respect my oldie, one thing i did do was crate train the pup so my oldie could have some time alone and pup learnt to "chill"
Hope all works out for you and your dogs , xxxx


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> One and a half weeks ago I lost my 12 year old Springer Spaniel, it left quite a hole in my life.
> I have another Springer cross, and she was fantastic during the time of loss to me and she is my little rock. she is 11 years old.
> 
> I have since been looking for another Springer pup to fill the gap that my late Jake left.
> ...


Hi Martin, I know you must miss Jake so much and Im not surprised that you felt the need to get another dog to be honest. I think after you have had older dogs for a good number of years you forget how mad pups can be.

At 6mths they are starting to mature, and it is a nutty stage, even if you have got the training foundations done they still tend to go off the rails at this age, doing things like not comng back when they did before, and just generally seeing what they can get away with. There is probably a good chance that he hasnt had any or only a little training so that will make him worse still.

If Chloe is growling at him, showing her teeth and air snapping and even lunging at him and giving him a nip, dont be surprised. Sometimes they walk off and wont have nothing to do with the pup either and when they do come near they do the growling etc etc. if this is what she is doing then she is trying to ask for space and teach him some manners, not entertaining him or "telling him off" Usually they do this until the pup gets the hint and backs off, when after awhile can be a fews days a week or so even longer, once the pups shown some manners and respect then they usually entertain them at their instigation starting and calling a halt when the older dog decides when they have had enough. if they dont pups can drive an older dog mad. Ideally this would be what happens. However some pups dont know when to quit and the older dog is not always a strong enough personality to get the message across.

I would have them together when supervised. If Chloe tells him off and he takes heed in good heart and backs off and gives her space when she asks then I would just keep watch. ideally she needs to be able to manage him on her own. As long as she isnt going after him with intent to hurt him, he backs off with good grace and manners, and doesnt seem frightened, or trys to snap or hurt her either, then just watch.

If however he doesnt know when to quit in spite of Chloe telling him off, and she is having trouble getting him to take note and/or becoming stressed about it then step in and you back her up and call a halt to the game. If he wont calm down pop him out in another room to calm down. Let him out but ignore him at first, then give him attention only if he stays calm. If he starts again repeat it and keep repeating it. He should get the hint. Some take longer then others but it you do things consistently and every time and follow it through he should learn.

I would as well as taking them out together also do some individual walks too so that chloe has one to one and so does he. This should insure that he bonds with you and learns to focus on you, dogs left together all the time can get so involved with each other, that it makes getting them to listen to you and train harder. It will give chloe some breaks too.

I would start training him right away too, doing a few short sessions a day with him teaching him and putting him through the basics, reward based training with treats, getting him to work for his attention and rewards. Again this should get him to start focusing and realising that doing as asked gets him rewards.

Im assuming he is house trained and everythings OK on that score?

I would get him enrolled in a training class too, that should help with socialisation and training in a controlled environment with distractions. He as I said could well be lacking in training at the moment, and its a loopy age anyway so training and keeping it going is really important at this age.
Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK should find a decent one in this area.

There is a good training book too, called the pet gundog by Lez Graham and I believe she has brought out a follow up too. Its aimed at training gun dog breeds as family pets, but in a way to keep them stimulated. I read a serialised version of the first book in dog mag and it was very good and Grandad on here who has working springers and maybe other gun dog breeds too I can remember for sure says its a good read. Springer Pete who is on here to has (yes you have guessed it) springers will probably be pleased to help you with best way to train young springers too, so Im sure you will get loads of help.

In general 6mths isnt the easiest age they all go through the teenage strops.
If he has had no previous training then it will probably make it that bit harder still, however if you are willing to put the time and training in I cant see why it shouldnt work.

ETA agree with the others crate training if done correctly can be a godsend for all concerned. It oes have to be done properly though so the dog accepts and relaxes. if you want to try one, and have never used one just ask for tips if you need help.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Dont think springer pete is on atm, but Ive posted a message for him with a link to your thread asking if he can give you training advice on 6mth springer handful


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Oh Martin don't despair as I'm sure they will be the best of friends given time.

I took on a rescue pup at the end of December and my older bitches are 13.1/2 - 11.1/2 - 3.1/2 yrs old respectively.

I laid down the house rules immediately ie the pup can play with the younger two bitches as much as she likes but she interferes with the old girl at her peril, including trying to snatch her toy when we walk through the fields.

Collies and spaniels are very intelligent working dogs and it only took a few days for the pup to understand.

All is peace and harmony now, two months later, well as much as it can be with a wild little sheepdog pup in the house....!!

At the moment the old girl is lying under the computer table and the pup and the 3 yr old are playing mad tuggy games behind me and the 11 yr old is barking with indignation because its her toy the pup is playing tuggy with.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Hi Martin. It's always a little traumatic when you introduce a 'Stroppy teenager'' ( 'cos that what you've go there.) to and old dog.
Certainly one thing I would make sure of is that the young springer is getting enough exercise and stimulation, it will probably mean taking him out on his own, you may find that after a couple of hours of free exercise he'll be a bit calmer with your old dog.
Your new chap is in the process of turning from a pup into a dog, testosterone levels are going through the roof and he's also found himself in a new enviroment, it's not suprising he's being a bit skittish. Give him a bit of time, if your old girl puts him in his place a time or two then so be it, he'll learn where the bounderies are soon enough.
I've got a six month old springer, he's been with me since he was seven weeks and is coming along very well but I'm waiting for him to start 'Cocking his leg' soon, when that happens i know i'll have a couple of months where he becomes pain in the butt. I'm just coming to the end of this period with my retreiver, (11 months) and he's calming back down again.
I wouldn't try and kid you that your situation is going to be an easy one to sort out but dont give up on your springer, I assure you that if you persevere you'll have a dog that will give you years of fun and devotion. Take time, and with patience I'm sure your two dogs will begin to get on.
I dont know if you dog is from a working line or not, but if you need any ideas on training, I'm sure my mate grandad and myself can come up with a few suggestions. Good luck. Pete.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

thanks everyone for your replies, many of which are very rest assuring, but still i feel i have done a dirty on Chloe and on Jakes memory.

The new pup spent last night next door in my friends house, so that my Chloe could get a good night's sleep, but today i re-introduced him to her and it all started again, Chloe is showing signs of tiredness and is trembleing with fright, and the new pup won't leave her alone.

I myself am regreting having bought a 6 month old dog as he's about the same size a Jake was but not Jake, and this is making me miss Jake even more now and i feel like iv'e disrespected his memory! i feel like i have someone elses dog in my house and i feel i cant seem to bond with him and i feel i rushed into this too quickly.

Would i have felt different if he was a 6 week old puppy? would it have been easier for Chloe if i had got a 6 week old puppy instead?

i'm feeling that if i had got a puppy instead of an almost full grown dog, i wouldn't keep comparing him against my late Jake and would probably be able to bond better with him. Also this new dog was already named as Skamp but i want to change it to Jasper is that a bad thing too?

Another thing which i dont know is if he's from a working or pet back ground, is there a way of telling?

As it stands my biggest worry is Chloe, i feel and i think she feels as if she's no longer good enough for me, she's far too upset looking.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Martin could you maybe go out for a nice walk with your new pup , maybe you will bond a bit with him, it may also tire him out, i know how you feel about not bonding and feeling guilty about "replaceing" a dog,, but as i said earlier it worked ok in the end for me, i found that by going for walks alone with new pup i found out what he was like, and in a short time saw him as a new dog with different traits to my other dog, on one such walk i even found myself smiling(something i never thought i would do again) when my newbie cocked his leg and nearly fell over, i laughed and cried at the same time, but for me it was the 1st time i had seen my newbie as a pup who i could bond with.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

I can not and wouldn't even attempt to add to the advise that Springer Pete and Sledgedog have given.... 
I will say this though, don't feel guilty that you have another dog so soon, he will help you heal, Chloe will with a bit of time accept him .Possibly it was a bit too soon for another pup but what is done is done and now you have got good advise you can get on with the job in hand and you will grow to love this guy as much as Jake aNd Chloe.. Good luck


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> thanks everyone for your replies, many of which are very rest assuring, but still i feel i have done a dirty on Chloe and on Jakes memory.
> 
> The new pup spent last night next door in my friends house, so that my Chloe could get a good night's sleep, but today i re-introduced him to her and it all started again, Chloe is showing signs of tiredness and is trembleing with fright, and the new pup won't leave her alone.
> 
> ...


Martin you are not being disrespectful to Jakes Memory, Jake was unique as is every dog, every dog is different, they all do their own funny little things and have their own personalities that are theirs and theirs alone. Breeds may have breed traits in common that some may have to a greater or lesser degree, but they are all individuals in their own way too.

As I mentioned before and Pete said too and he knows the breed better then I
6mths is a mad age, what probably hasnt helped is that the previous owners havent done any or very little training with him, and probably havent made sure he is exercised and occupied enough either, so what you have is an over excited bundle of excess energy who whats to see, do and be everywhere at once. With training and time and settling in likely it will get easier, once you have established a routine and and he and everyone knows where they are at. its very early days.

You probably feel you have someone elses dog in your house, because in some respects thats what you have at the moment. He and you havent had the time together yet to make him into your dog and the dog you want him to be. He will never be Jake because they are different, but he can given time and patience and training become yours.

I can fully see you may be worrying about Chloe and given time if she doesnt settle and seems stressed I can understand your concerns, but it could still settle down once the pup has been given boundaries and knows what he can and cant do. I do however fully see why you are worried as also she is an older girl.

In all honesty Martin if you had brought in a 6 weeks old pup they can be a trial too, admitted you could have started to shape him straight away and train him instead, but again as Pete has confirmed I think even then they do get to this sort of age and start the teenage strops and push their luck, in fact all dogs do regardless of breed, so even though you may have had a foundation of training and some sensibility there maybe you could also be going through this difficult stage too.

As regarding bringing in any new dog, the routine will be upset, the other dogs/dogs will be temporarily out of kilter. One thing I can guarantee though is that if you yourself start acting out of character and the more you get stressed so will the dogs, it will bounce off you and make them more uncertain.

If you want to change his name, then there is nothing to stop you, as it happens my sis had a dog female called Bailey who died. She decided to rescue and of all the dogs she could have picked and of all the names it could have had 
and considering it was even a different breed and a male instead of a female what was it called you guessed it Bailey. When she saw the dog on a rescue website a Dobermann and the family have had them before, funnilly enough she was put off by the name even though him and his story drew her to him. Anyway long story short she ended up with him, fully intending to change the name Bailey that he already had. As it happens several years later Bailey is Bailey still. Not because its a memory of Bailey one, its becase Bailey 2 is Bailey in his own right. I digress I know but thought the story might help.

As the saying goes, we can all be wiser in hindsight. But, as I see if you have a couple of choices. Go for it if you feel you can and want too and can put in the time and work necessary. Or quit now if you really do think you have made the wrong decision.

The only thing I can maybe think of if you really cant cope is to maybe contact 
English Springer Spaniel Welfare Home - English Springer Spaniel Welfare they give help and advice to owners are well as re-home springers and have springers for adoption. If you really cant after having a serious think, see it working for one reason or another
if chloe is continuing to be really stressed and as an old girl you do fear for her health especially after losing Jake so recently to heart problems. Then maybe speak to them. Explain the situation and see what they can offer in the way of advice or help.

If you do decide to keep Skamp then dont forget you have the backing and help of the forum, including 2 springer experts too Grandad when he is about and Springer Pete. So you are not entirely alone to deal with it.

Whatever you decide Martin has to be right for you and the dogs in the long run, and only you can decide. Keep us posted, and I hope this might help at least a bit.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> thanks everyone for your replies, many of which are very rest assuring, but still i feel i have done a dirty on Chloe and on Jakes memory.
> 
> The new pup spent last night next door in my friends house, so that my Chloe could get a good night's sleep, but today i re-introduced him to her and it all started again, Chloe is showing signs of tiredness and is trembleing with fright, and the new pup won't leave her alone.
> 
> ...


Martin. Dont think that you've done anything to ''Disrespect'' the memory of your other dog, all you've done is to give another young dog the chance of having as good a life as your late Jake. I'm sure if he could talk to you Jake wouldn't have any issues with that. As for Chloe, she's obviously going to be confused for a while but it's suprising how quickly they adjust. my new retreiver Flyte was introduced to my old Dylan when Dyl' was i4 yrs and just a few weeks after my old Spaniel Bracken had left us. He wasn't all that keen on the pup at first but as you san see by the attatched photo, he son got used to him and had a good few months together before he passed away,


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

springerpete said:


> Martin. Dont think that you've done anything to ''Disrespect'' the memory of your other dog, all you've done is to give another young dog the chance of having as good a life as your late Jake. I'm sure if he could talk to you Jake wouldn't have any issues with that. As for Chloe, she's obviously going to be confused for a while but it's suprising how quickly they adjust. my new retreiver Flyte was introduced to my old Dylan when Dyl' was i4 yrs and just a few weeks after my old Spaniel Bracken had left us. He wasn't all that keen on the pup at first but as you san see by the attatched photo, he son got used to him and had a good few months together before he passed away,


Beautiful pictures they are so lovely to see pete, and a wonderful memory to cherish for all time too.


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## Mollyspringer (Aug 16, 2011)

Do feel for you. I got my Springer back in August when she was 5 months old and had spent the first few months of her life tied to a post. I lost my old dog the year before and although my situation wasn't the same as yours is now, I went through some of the same misgivings as you. She was an absolute pain when we got her and I considered taking her back, but with perseverance and a lot of good advice from the lovely people on here, I've now got a lovely, loyal dog. By the way, she was called 'Patch' when I got her and changed her name to Molly without any bother at all.
I think you've got to do what you think best. Only you know your dog Chloe and how she is with the newcomer. I think she'll come to accept him but it may take a little time. I found this forum such a help at what was a bad time and I can now look back and laugh about it. I even find myself noticing that Molly has certain traits the same as my old dog, Fudge, even though he was a Border collie. Her bark is exactly the same as his and when she looks at me with those big brown eyes I can see him looking at me sometimes!
Good luck and let us know how you get on, Ann xx


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I remember when we brought our second dog home, he was 1 year old ish and wouldn't leave my other girl alone, she looked so upset and miserable - and believe me she is a girl who can look after herself with quite a short fuse with other dogs who annoy her... he constantly tried to hump and mither her and he was completely manic.

We didn't leave them alone and tried to spend some time with one of us with each dog - we also kept him on a house line alot and gave them (seperately so as not to cause any sharing issues) kongs and things (with him attached to one of us) so he got used to other interesting things when she was there; also used baby gates alot to seperate them where they could see eachother. We did lots of walks to keep them tired, he had been in kennels with no walks for a long time so was full of beans.

After a week where we felt completely drained he had started to calm down slightly; they found a toy that we had missed to put away; and both when to grab it she went for him they had a little handbags spat, first and only time, and after that he developed alot more respect for her and they became bestest friends over not too long a space of time. Not saying that is the way it should be done but completely understand how overwhelming it can be bringing in a new dog, especially a young one that seems to be upsetting the balance too.... he is probably a bit stressed too with the change - I am sure give it time you will all bond together and have many happy times ahead.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

springerpete said:


> Martin. Dont think that you've done anything to ''Disrespect'' the memory of your other dog, all you've done is to give another young dog the chance of having as good a life as your late Jake. I'm sure if he could talk to you Jake wouldn't have any issues with that. As for Chloe, she's obviously going to be confused for a while but it's suprising how quickly they adjust. my new retreiver Flyte was introduced to my old Dylan when Dyl' was i4 yrs and just a few weeks after my old Spaniel Bracken had left us. He wasn't all that keen on the pup at first but as you san see by the attatched photo, he son got used to him and had a good few months together before he passed away,


Picture #3 :thumbup1::thumbup1:


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

Once again i want to thank every one of you for being so supportive and for "Sled dog hotel" taking the time to virtually write an essay!
I have take everything on board, especially the advice to "give it time" and i am pleased to tell you all that after having him here for the day, he's starting to show some obedience, he slept next door last night and when i went to get him this morning, he so much got on Chloe and my nerves, Chloe was really upset and trembleing (that was when i wrote on here last) but during the day i have been trying my best to teach him right from wrong and now he seems to have lost primary interest of Chloe, and Chloe seems back to her normal self again. I took them both for a walk and today they both did their own thing (last night when i took them out for a walk, Jasper was all over Chloe trying to hump her) so i think i'm doing something right.
I am beginning to love him too now, i think a bond is beginning to form, he's about half as busy than he was when i got him last night.
he's also responding to his new name Jasper, i call him Jazzy some times too which he also responds to.
I think i was in a state of panic and guilt not to mention, i'm still greiving for Jake.
My biggest problem is that i don't like change and with Jake dieing, that was an unbareable unavoidable change, then because one and a half weeks have now passed since Jake's passing, i started getting used to having just Chloe and i think she got used to being alone with me too, but i had always planned to get another springer, and there wern't any local puppies available, and i thought that a 6 month old dog would be better for me as he's virtually house trained, but it was the sudden change for me and a sence of guilt with the way he was bothering Chloe, so i paniked.

I have decided to keep Jasper and i'm looking really forwards to him intergrating properly and becoming as loyal as my lovely Jake was.

the funny thing with Jasper is that he acturlly watches tv with great interest which looks really funny. lol

now i just need to teach him how to use the dog door flap so that he can let himself in and out like Chloe dose and Jake did.

Any advice on how to get him to use the dog flap? he's absolutely scared of it if i try to show him though it.

i'll stick with this forum, it's the best one i have found, you are all such nice people i'm really greatful to you all.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm really pleased Martin that you and Chloe have had a better day with the newcomer Jasper.

Give it time, especially as you are still grieving for Jake.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

You'll get there Martin, have patience and I'm sure that in no time at all your new dog will be part of the household. Cat flap ? Sorry I cant help you on that one........................


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> Once again i want to thank every one of you for being so supportive and for "Sled dog hotel" taking the time to virtually write an essay!
> I have take everything on board, especially the advice to "give it time" and i am pleased to tell you all that after having him here for the day, he's starting to show some obedience, he slept next door last night and when i went to get him this morning, he so much got on Chloe and my nerves, Chloe was really upset and trembleing (that was when i wrote on here last) but during the day i have been trying my best to teach him right from wrong and now he seems to have lost primary interest of Chloe, and Chloe seems back to her normal self again. I took them both for a walk and today they both did their own thing (last night when i took them out for a walk, Jasper was all over Chloe trying to hump her) so i think i'm doing something right.
> I am beginning to love him too now, i think a bond is beginning to form, he's about half as busy than he was when i got him last night.
> he's also responding to his new name Jasper, i call him Jazzy some times too which he also responds to.
> ...


I lost my beloved Joshua on 28th September last year. It was a sudden shock; he was only three. But my other newfie, Ferdie, adored him. I was devastated to lose Joshua, but more to the point, so was Ferdie. He wouldn't go out for a walk, just kept staring at the bottom of the garden. At the beginning of October, only two weeks later, I was offered Diva, another newfie aged 3 1/2 and I felt the same. Joshua has not been gone long, I still missed him terribly, (I still do) but I wanted to cheer Ferdie up. When she arrived, I wondered if I had done the right thing. The two of them ignored each other, didn't sniff or anything, and I wondered if Ferdie would ever accept her.

But they did get on and just a few weeks ago, for the first time, he played with her the way he used to with Joshua. It was wonderful to see. He doesn't love her like he did Joshua, but she will do.

I am sure your new pup was just excited to be in a new place and with a new friend. Sounds like they will get on fine given time and I am glad you are feeling that now as well.


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## Mumbles (Apr 17, 2011)

Glad to hear you are keeping jasper and things are looking up.

We have a dog flap and he only way we managed to teach toodles was one of us on either side of I with a handful of cheese and we would poke cheese through, toodles would sniff and push through flap to get cheese, then we would do it the other way and did that for bout half hour and he got it, now he shows off running in and out all the time


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I forgot to say, you may find that if Chloe uses the dog flap, Jasper might eventually follow just out of curiosity. I would wait and see, personally.


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## Rolosmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Was just about to post about the flap, but think Mumbles has pretty much said what i was going to say. 

My boy springer became hardwork at 6months for a little while, the perfect recall went a little dodgy at times and we went back to a long line and very tasty treats for a small while, but keeping up a strong training focus short and sweet through out the day helped tire him mentally as well as physically and reinforced that he looked to us for what he should do.

I am so pleased things are settling down, no two springers are the same, and they all have something unique and completely lovable about them, and are the same but different enough for you to be able to see Jasper for himself. He will hopefully help keep your wonderful memories of Jake alive and give you lots more to add to them over the years.

Great choice of breed! lol


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## Mollyspringer (Aug 16, 2011)

That's good news. You'll all get there in the end. We've just put another cat flap in for Molly and we used the 'cheese' method-didn't take long, haha. Let us know how things progress, I'm sure we'd all like to know xx


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Glad things are settling down and you all all feeling a bit more happier and settled.

Ive never had to train a dog with a dog flap (probably as with the size of this lot it would need to be such a big one, you would likely just leave the door off altogether)

Only thing I can think of is to find something he really likes food/treat wise and try to tempt him to follow it through the flap, if you go outside and lift it and try to get him to follow it through if that makes sense. if you can fix it so the flap stays up, then you could also maybe throw a threat or ball through and maybe get him to chase after it so it becomes a game. 

Hopefully it should start to get him used to the concept anyway.


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## Bullymastiff (May 6, 2010)

Glad you have decided to give it a try, hopefully eventually he will bring lots of happiness into you and your other dogs lives. 
Its always a pain bringing a new dog in, it just takes them time to learn the house rules, and you to bond with them i think.

Im sure he'll use the flap soon, if the other dog does he will want to! 
can you stand outside and call them through with treats?


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

thanks guys for the dog flap advice, i didn't get time today to try teach him as i took him for a long walk after work (he came to work with me and Chloe) then when we got home it was already getting dark and very cold. 
I'll try tomorrow.

I have one concerning question though...
his nose.

all the dog's iv'e owned have always had an ice cold wet nose, even my late Jake had a cold wet nose almost right to his last day, but for some reason Jaspers nose is damp but dry also a lot of the time and warm instead of cold.

Is there a problem? in all other aspects he's as lively and healthy looking/acting as any 6 month old pup.

is a warm dry nose common or a health problem?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> thanks guys for the dog flap advice, i didn't get time today to try teach him as i took him for a long walk after work (he came to work with me and Chloe) then when we got home it was already getting dark and very cold.
> I'll try tomorrow.
> 
> I have one concerning question though...
> ...


Glad you have had another positive day.
When I got Nanuq as a 12 week old pup her nose was very dry, I just put a little vaseline on it, you can get one with aloe vera in it in small tins that are meant for dry lips and I just put a little of that on for a few days here and there and that seemed to do the trick.

To be honest unless it was red hot and really dry and cracked I wouldnt worry at the moment. Especially as he is bright and lively, running around and interested in anything. Only worry if he becomes a lot quieter, especially if lethargic, not interested in his surroundings, obviously if his toilet became more frequent and loose or diarrhoea and he loses his appetite. Otherwise I wouldnt worry in the slightest. This lots noses are not always very cold, especially if they have been very active or playing. Warm I wouldnt be overly concerned especially as he is so well in himself.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

A massive disaster

Hi guys, before i go into detail i want to tell you that i think my little Jasper has been killed

This is very hard for me to write, but here goes:
today i took Jasper and Chloe "around the block" it's a 50 minute walk and involves public footpaths through woodlands and over a farm field.

Jasper had been as good as gold being off his lead all the other times i took him round, he never went out of my sight and always stayed on the beaten track.
today was no different until we approached the field entrance gate.
Upuntil the gate he was off his lead and when we aproach the field i always check for life stock, i couldn't see any and before i knew it, Jasper crawled under the gate and ran up the field, then my heart went into my throught when suddenly over the brow of the hill of the field, a herd of sheep we being chased by Jasper, I ran to try and catch him but he was already about 200 yards away, i blew my dog wistle (which i trained him to come to me, and he did) but this time no amount of wistleing had any effect, all i could do is watch as he exited the first field into another and then into another from where i lost sight of him, that final field leads to the farm yard.

I was trying my hardest to get to him, but the mud in the field was so deep in places that it was impossible to run.

About 3 minutes went by and i was about half way to the farm, then i suddenly see the farmer coming from the out of sight field where Jasper ran into. He was on a 4 wheel drive buggy thing and aproached me and gave me one hell of a telling off, telling me i'm tresspassing, and he's going to report me, i couldnt apologise more, as i didn't see any sheep i the field as they were over the other side of the hill and from past walks, the field had always been empty. he kept asking for my details so he could report me, and i said not until i get my dog back, i'm also sure he said "you can get your dog after i have your details" i kept saying, i got to fnd him as he's run away, he then made me tie poor Chloe onto a gate post in the field and i was made to leave her there alone and walk a very long distance out of her sight to his far yard.

All the Sheep were rounded up and looked very carm, the farmer told me that Jasper had cornered one and it nearly went into a fit and might die, i never noticed any poorly sheep there and the farmer never pointed it out to me neither.
I asked, where has my dog gone, and the farmer said he went through the front gate which leads back onto the main road.
I then phoned my friends in my house to look out for him, while i was on the phone, the farmer comes out and takes a photo of me, and asked for my details, so i gave them to him, as it really didn't bother me as i was planning to go to the police anyway.
Then to my surprise the farmer offers to take me in his car out onto the road and back towards my house in the hope to either find him at home or see him on the road, but he was no where to be seen, he then drove me back and walked me back to Chloe, i was so relieved to see that she was still there, (as she has managed to slip out of her collar at times) he said thathe won't press charges but will report me, the reason for this was because i had by then carlmed down and was talking tidy to him. i was then sent on my way with Chloe on a lead, i was calling Jasper and blowing my wistle, but he was no where to be found.

All this happened at 4:30pm today, and i have been out searching for him until 10pm by foot and car along with my friends, but we can't find him.
I have put up posters i quickly printed with his pic and details, in about 15 places in my area where other dog walkers go and on buss stops and lamp posts.
I have told the police exactly what happened and they will let me know if anyone reports a found dog.

However being a pesamist, i can only fear the worst.
I'm thinking that as Jasper got into the farm yard, because he is such a people friendly dog, i think he let the farmer go near him to catch hold of him and kill him, but then cover up his actions.
he did tell me that if he had had his gun he would have shot him.

So now my poor little man has probably paid his altimate price, and i might never know what became of him, which is even worse than knowing he's dead.

I collected him from his previous owners at 4:30pm last Saturday, so i had him for exactly one week to the hour.

We were really bonding so well, and he had started using the dog flap too!

i'm breaking down in tears now.

Anyone else know of farmers taktics, has it been known in the past that farmers kill dogs and claim they ran away?

he was so sweet, i can't belive i have lost two dogs in two weeks, this is absolutely tareing me to bits, i'm missing him so much already.

i predicted that 2012 will be a year of disasters, and i was right.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

also, isn't it odd that Jasper should chase the sheep into the farm yard, and then lose interest and rum off out of sight as the farmer claimed?

do Springer lose interest just like that and run off?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

First thing you need to do is calm down. I see no reason why the farmer would deny shooting him, as he has every right to do so. I also think that he appeared quite reasonable once things had settled down a bit.

If Jasper has run off, and you have only had him a week, it is far more likely that he has gone back to his old home. Have you tried them? That would be my first port of call and then the dog warden, animal shelters, vets, anywhere where someone might report a lost dog.

And put his details on Doglost website. I do hope you find him soon. I can only imagine how you feel, but you won't help Jasper by getting into a blind panic.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

a few things don't add up, which causes me to point suspision on the farmer.
firstly when Jasper ran out of my sight towards the farm yard, it took about 3 to 4 miutes before the farmer appeared from the same field opening where Jasper ran our of sight into, this would have given the farmer plenty of time to having cought him and broke his neck or something.

I found out that he has no gun licence, even though he told me that he wuld have shot him had he had his gun close by.

i don't kow if it's my over active thinkig playing tricks, but i do remember saying, " i got to get my dog back" and i'm sure he said "your not having your dog back" but never questioned it, as killing him was the last thing on my mind, i must have thought he ment "your not having him back just yet, not until i have your details" because he said it in that way too.

When we got to his yard the sheep were behind the large barn/shed, you can't see the main road from there, and i asked him where my dog is and the farmer said that he went through the gate (which cordens off the sheep which is at the back of the shed/barn) and ran towards the main road.

after he took my details, he offered to take me in his car to search for him (more than likely to make me think he's trying to help me, and take my susspisions off him) we got in the car, went down his long drive to the main road and he turns right.
I tell him that my house is left, and i rememer him saying that he saw him runnig towards the right, which is a lie because he could not have seen which way he went from the area where the sheep were, besides, his concerns would be more for his sheep, which leads to the next part of the puzzle..

I saw the farmer appearing in his buggy about 3 to 4 minutes after Jasper went out of my sight, for me to see him emerging from the gates, he would have had to travel about 200 yards away from his sheep, leaving his sheep vulnerable if Jasper was still at large.

How did he now i might have been in his field in the first place? the dog could have come from anywhere.

also, Jasper has been around on this walk 5 times since i had him and he would have recognised the main road, my house is only 3 to 400 yards away once he (if he) left the farm. and Jasper was a fast learner, as we approached my front drive way on previous walks he would run up to the back gate by himself.

I got him from Swansea which is 18 miles away on the M4, so there's no chance that he could know or find his previous home.

there may be a law that farmers have the right to shoot a dog, but what about killing it another way? did he also have that right? and because he probably diden't have that right, he's now covering up his actions?

why would Jasper run towards the road, and not back to me as he always did.

and why would he suddenly lose interest of the sheep and run away after showing so much interest in chasing them.

he used to come to anyone, not at all a people scared dog, so i'm sure he let the farmer close to him.

I really hope i'm wrong, but i think the farmer killed him.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Did you hear anything like a yelp? I am not questioning your judgement, please don't think that, but it seems to have happened very fast. I am suspicious of a farmer with no gun licence; how did you find that out? If he doesn't have one, there must be a very good reason, like a previous conviction.

If you are in any doubt, then phone the police and ask their advice. But don't think for one minute that a dog could not find his way back from anywhere. I know you are feeling just awful, and I don't blame you, but do get on and phone the proper people, see if he has been found. Start with the dog warden.

It is always possible that the farmer chased him out of the gate and frightened him enough for him to run off in the wrong direction. These things happen, even to the most established dog.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

Have you posted his details on the Doglost website yet? If not I urge you to do so as a matter of urgency.

The farmer was undoubtedly angry but it would take a very hard man to kill a young dog. He probably shouted at Jasper which is why he ran off.

Dogs do try to find their way home and a heck of a lot further than 18 miles.

After initially chasing the sheep Jasper may well have lost interest in them. Even sheepdogs do.

I do hope you find him today.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

If he shot him you'd have heard it. I found a dog once that was lost and she didn't know her way home and it wasn't that far. Is he microchipped with a collar? Try the local dog homes and ring the dog warden and vets on Monday. Hope you find him.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

unfortunately he was not chiped and no coller, just an un-marked harnes on him.
I was planning to go into Swansea on monday to kit him out with a new coller and new lead and other stuff, and i was also planning to get him chipped in a week or two, but hind sight is a wonderfull thing, right now i'm beating myself up, i feel i'ts my fault for leading him to his death (if he is dead)

Is the lost dog site a twitter site? if so, i don't know how to use twitter, it's so un conventional and alien to me, i'm only just grasping facebook, in which he has been reported missing on.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Is it worth you going to speak to the farmer again.
If you knew for certain it would help. I really hope hes alive and turns up today.


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## Barnjake (Dec 6, 2011)

Bless you, I hope he comes back safe. 
xx


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## Linden_Tree (Jan 6, 2011)

Phone all the vets in your area in case he has been found and handed in.

Call the police and see if there have been any reports of a dog being found - whilst no longer their responsibility many people do still contact them, and they will have a record of this, especially if he has been hit by a car. 

Get yourself down to the farm and speak to the farmer rather than just speculating. You need to be proactive and not sit online waiting for someone else to find him. The fact he has no identification on him does not go in your favour, even if he is found, so you are going to have to double your efforts to locate him.

Get together with friends and family and sort a search party. Chances are he won't have travelled far.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

*


Martin68 said:



unfortunately he was not chiped and no coller, just an un-marked harnes on him.

Click to expand...

*


Martin68 said:


> *I was planning to go into Swansea on monday to kit him out with a new coller and new lead and other stuff, and i was also planning to get him chipped in a week or two, but hind sight is a wonderfull thing, right now i'm beating myself up, i feel i'ts my fault for leading him to his death (if he is dead)*
> 
> *Is the lost dog site a twitter site? if so, i don't know how to use twitter, it's so un conventional and alien to me, i'm only just grasping facebook, in which he has been reported missing on.*




Here's the site: *www.DogLost.co.uk*.

And here's their tel no: *0844 800 3220*.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

I have now added him to the dog lost site.
The police just came round and i told him exactly what had happened, he just left to visit the farmer, so i'm now waiting for a report back from him.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Have you contacted your local council dog warden? Have you also looked up the address and phone number of the local council pounds or kennels where strays are taken. Not sure if your in wales or England, or if the same laws apply bt since the 2006 cleaner and safet neightbourhoods act, Dog control orders, councils are now solely responsible for strays and looking after them and have to hold them for either 7 or 8 days for the owner to come forward. So its very important you contact the dog warden and/or our local pound or council kenneling facility. 

Like some else said also phone all the vets in the area closest too you. If he was picked up injured then likely someone or even the warden would have to take them for veterinary care, its something the council have to do if a stray is ill or injured.

If dogs are spooked or frightened then they can run off scared. Its flight instinct so not saying he did of course for one minute, but if the farmer did give Jasper a kick or smack and he was in fear its a possibility that he just took off in no immediate particular direction.

Does he scent mark a lot on walks when you go round and about? If so if he is OK then you have a good chance he may find his way home.
Although his orginal home is quite a few miles away, as Twiggy said it has been know for dogs to go miles, not an everyday usual occurance granted but not beyond the realms of possibility. So if you hear nothing soon, maybe worth contacting surrounding councils or the council dog warden his orginal home came under You never know anythings worth a go.

It could be that he is holed up somewhere thats been known to happen, Two dogs went missing on here not so long ago and were missing over night and they were found holed up and still together, so if there is any forestry land, other farms etc etc around then it might be worth contacting those too and lodge his details, If you have forestry land they often have rangers both paid and voluntary or ours do. The more details you can lodge with surrounding official bodies the better.

I know its hard and you are frantic that the farmer may have done something, but at the moment you dont know for sure, there is still hope that he is out there somewhere, so dont give up just yet.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

I live near Ammanford in south wales, and have tried to find the local dog warden, but can't, there is no local warden around here, the police also said that they don't work on weekends, also my local council (carmarthenshire county council) website is down.

I have rang all vets but no joy.

he cocks his leg several times along his walk, and my house is only a few hundred yards from the farm, that's why i'm so surprised he didn't find his way home.

that police man still hasen't reported back to me yet, since he went to the farm.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> I live near Ammanford in south wales, and have tried to find the local dog warden, but can't, there is no local warden around here, the police also said that they don't work on weekends, also my local council (carmarthenshire county council) website is down.
> 
> I have rang all vets but no joy.
> 
> ...


I think it will come under carmarthenshire then, and yes they dont appear to work at weekends certainly dont collect dogs saturday or Sundays. However someone may have him safe awaiting to contact the dog warden, only last week one of our members found a dog in the Manchester area and kept him safe until they could get hold of the dog warden, so this could even be the case with Jasper.

Meanwhile it looks like there is a couple of excellent rescues in your area see link, might be worth you contacting them too and/or sending an E-mail if you cant raise them by phone (which you may be lucky enough too) certainly worth lodging his details with them just in case.

Dog Rescues in the UK of GB


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Forgot to add both the first two are in your area and seem to take in dogs for re-homing from the council pounds in your area, so deffinately a good place to lodge his details, if they work with the pounds then there may be a chance they take in when the dog warden cant be contacted sometimes and strays are found and sort things out after, nothing to lose contacting them.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

the police man did report back to me afterwards after talking to the farmer, and told me that the farmer says that Jasper ran away and that he didn't kill him.

It's very easy to lie, some people can make it sound very convincing

I think he murdered Jasper with brute force as he didn't have a gun, and because this is illigal he's denying it, he's had plenty of time to dispose of his body too. the worst part is that i may never know what happened and that's worse than knowing he's dead.

I have put over 20 posters up, allerted face book users, and reported him missing to my local pounds (thanks for the link sled dog) the police are also informed as well as doglost.co.uk website (thanks Twiggy)

when i put more posters up today, i approached on coming people twice and asked them if they have seen my dog and in both occasions they replied that they have seen my other posters and are looking out for him, one also said that he had looked on the internet at the local pound, so the posters are working, and as far as i know, i'm sure most of Saron and neighbouring villages know about him missing as i have had loads of people coming back to me all telling each others friends.
with so much activity from the local public, i'm sure if someone had took him in, that they would have found out about me looking for him by now.

Jasper was a fast learner i noticed, it only took a day to teach him the dog flap, only a few hours to teach him to sit, and when walking he knew exactly where his home was as we approached it.

it's been 28 hours now since he's been missing, dogs don't just disapear into thin air, i am 99.9% certain that he would have found his house if he had ran out of the farm, if he had been shocked and disoriantated after the farmer catchig him and then ran away, he would have needed to run a further 200 yards or so to get onto the main road, by which time his mind would have started thinking straight again and find his way home which is only about 300yards further down the road.

No... i'm 99.9% certain that that heartless farmer murdered my Jasper, and because he's denying it, i won't get his body to bury him.

it's an absolute night mere , these last 2 months have been the worst in my life.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Perhaps he doesn't see 'his' house as yours after just a week and is making his way to his original home as others have said?

I do think that to accuse the farmer repeatedly of telling lies and murder without evidence is a little much - my uncle has a farm (in Wales incidentally) and has often chased dogs away from his livestock and probably threatened to kill them; he also has signs up saying that they will be shot for worrying livestock. He has never actually harmed a dog in his life (loves them in fact) but I can understand the anger of watching your livelihood being threatened by out of control dogs. 

Have you been back to talk to him? He may well be a reasonable man who just 'saw red' and may actually be able to offer you some help.

Maybe pour all your energy into physically visiting every vet, rescue centre and pound between the farm and your pup's first home rather than relying on phone calls and the internet - I have heard of people having rung a centre to be told that a dog matching their description is not there, only to go and look for themselves and find them.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

*


Martin68 said:



the police man did report back to me afterwards after talking to the farmer, and told me that the farmer says that Jasper ran away and that he didn't kill him.

Click to expand...

*


Martin68 said:


> *It's very easy to lie, some people can make it sound very convincing*
> 
> *I think he murdered Jasper with brute force as he didn't have a gun, and because this is illigal he's denying it, he's had plenty of time to dispose of his body too. the worst part is that i may never know what happened and that's worse than knowing he's dead.*
> 
> ...




Martin I'm afraid dogs do 'disappear into thin air' and don't necessarily find their way home.

I know of many, many instances when frightened dogs just bolt.

My husband managed to lose my Quiver on private land just behind our property almost seven years ago and she didn't run home. She ended up in the next village and I finally got her home 8 hours later, having picked her up from the kennels our council use for strays which was 40 miles away. I was very, very lucky to get her back.

Have you scoured all the local fields as Jasper may be lying under a hedge somewhere or he could be injured?


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

yes, myself and friend have searched all walking areas and several fields, but many fields are private and tresspassing prohibited, so we can't go on them this includes the nasty farmers fields, in which he pointed out that i was tresspassing yesterday on.

you were very lucky to find your dog 8 hours later, but it's been 30 hours now for me.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> yes, myself and friend have searched all walking areas and several fields, but many fields are private and tresspassing prohibited, so we can't go on them this includes the nasty farmers fields, in which he pointed out that i was tresspassing yesterday on.
> 
> you were very lucky to find your dog 8 hours later, but it's been 30 hours now for me.


But what I was trying to say about talking to the farmer might help - he may well turn out to be reasonable enough to allow you on those fields to search for your dog. If you never ask, you will never know.


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## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

Both my dogs went missing for 27 hours in November last year.

Despite me calling them,whistling them,driving around,walking virtually the whole area they went missing,they were found huddled together under a tree less than half a mile from where they went missing.

An area that I had walked past and driven past many times during those 27 hours.


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## sashski (Aug 14, 2011)

Oh my gosh, didn't want to read and run. I hope he finds his way home soon..

My old dog ran away on his evening walk after being spooked by random a firework (in Sept not Nov!) We searched well into the early hours and I was petrified we would never see him again... I refused to go to school until he was found (this was many years ago btw!)
Luckily he had his collars and tags on and about 11am tho following mornin a lady phoned to say she had found him curled up asleep on her front door step 2 villages away - 10th miles by road !

So there is hope, just keep looking and asking 

I wish him back safe and well.
X


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

cravensmum said:


> Both my dogs went missing for 27 hours in November last year.
> 
> Despite me calling them,whistling them,driving around,walking virtually the whole area they went missing,they were found huddled together under a tree less than half a mile from where they went missing.
> 
> An area that I had walked past and driven past many times during those 27 hours.


As cravens mum said her boys were missing for nearly as long as Jasper has been and they were found so dont give up hope just yet.
The council will be working again tomorrow and the dog wardens will be on again so make sure you contact them and lodge him as missing first thing as soon as you can in the morning. You have already been in touch with the rescues that take dogs from the pounds in your area when they are not claimed after 8 days so at least you have covered bases there. But make sure you keep in touch with them too.

It might not be a bad idea to speak to the farmer again as dogless suggests, you have nothing to lose, try and explain about losing your other Jasper and only just getting your new dog. OK he may be hostile again, but he may not anything and everythings worth a try. There was another lost old dog on here that I think Rona posted about and he was hurt and he still turned up I believe after a considerable while. I know your very upset and worried Martin but dont give up hope yet.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> yes, myself and friend have searched all walking areas and several fields, but many fields are private and tresspassing prohibited, so we can't go on them this includes the nasty farmers fields, in which he pointed out that i was tresspassing yesterday on.
> 
> you were very lucky to find your dog 8 hours later, but it's been 30 hours now for me.


I lost a dog many years ago in an area heavily populated by farmhouses and fields. I went to every single one with his photograph, asking if they had seen him. Because it is private land, doesn't mean you can't go ask permission to look. We found him eventually trotting along the main road on his way home.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

Still no signs of him, and i have spoken to the dog warden too which tell me to ring back at 3pm.

Do you know if the doglost website is an official site that is used and checked by the officials such as dog wardens etc?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

*


Martin68 said:



Still no signs of him, and i have spoken to the dog warden too which tell me to ring back at 3pm.

Click to expand...

*


Martin68 said:


> *Do you know if the doglost website is an official site that is used and checked by the officials such as dog wardens etc?*




I'm really sorry that there is still no news on Jasper.

Yes I believe Doglost is the website everyone uses and the helpline is manned by volunteers.


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## Linden_Tree (Jan 6, 2011)

Martin68 said:


> Still no signs of him, and i have spoken to the dog warden too which tell me to ring back at 3pm.
> 
> Do you know if the doglost website is an official site that is used and checked by the officials such as dog wardens etc?


The vast majority of dog wardens make little effort to reunite stray dogs. The most they will do is scan for a microchip. They will not trawl through lost/found web pages, so you will have to phone the warden daily; maybe visit the kennels where strays are taken as sometimes a description over the phone isn't enough.

It's up to you to do everything you can to find your dog.

Doglost is run by volunteers. It has no official standing, although is one of the widest used websites, and is known nationally by members of the public.


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## toryb (Jul 11, 2011)

Oh gosh, just read all this thread!! I hope Japser turns up safe and sound...I would go back tot he farmer and ask him the same questions...see if it adds up this time?


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

After work today, i went back to the farm to speak to the farmer now that we have all carlmed down.
Basically i wanted a detailed explination as to how the event unfolded from the farmers side.
He took me back to the area where it all happened.
I was carrying a sound recorder in my pocket, just in case anything would be said that could be questionable afterwards.
The farmer told me exactly how Jasper ran into the field after the sheep, and as all but one sheep ran away, Jasper was in a corner picking on just that one sheep (probably trying to play with it), which was so scared that it looked like it was going to die, but it didn't. (apparatly, you only got to say "boo" to a sheep and it dies of a heart attack) 
as the farmer approached the scene with his 4x4 buggy, he claimed that Jasper got frightened and ran off through an open gate at the farm yard end of the field never to be seen again. (but for him to get to that gate, he would have been passing the flock of 50 other sheep, so did he really run out the gate?) The fields are all dog proof, they are all completely fenced in, so the only way out would be through a gate.
on the day it happened, when i went to the place where he claimed that Jasper cornered that one sheep, all i could see was that all the sheep had flocked together right at that same gate that he claimed was left open enough for a dog to run through. now why would the sheep all end up at that gate, if he says that they had gone into the field and Jasper ran past them to the gate?? thats indicates that the sheep followed Jasper in order to end up by the gate too.
i'm still not convinced he's telling the truth, but it's virtually impossible to prove it.

He was very firendly calling my dog Jasper all of the time, is this over compensating when lieing?

I told him that i think he killed Jasper, by possibly stamping on him, and he replied very friendly that he could never do such a thing, explaining of how cruwel it is and he could not live with himself if he had done that, but he got cross and never acused me of slander for thinking this of him, so could this also be a sign of over compensating because he did do it? or was he telling the truth.

Some people can lie so well that they temselves start believing it.

perhaps he was telling the truth and Jasper really did run away, but where the hell could he run to without geting in even more danger, his old home is in Morriston 18 miles on the motorway.

i won't give up and will keep looking and hoping he'll come home soon.

i was also told that the sheep were not laming.
He willingly took me around his fields to look at the over grown edges to see if Jasper was anywhere, and said i can come and check at anytime myself.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Sounds as if the farmer was more than reasonable - I'm really pleased that he'll give you access to the land. Maybe you could go back on your own now you have permission for a more detailed search just in case Jasper was a bit spooked and hiding somewhere? Long shot I know, but might be worth it.


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## sashski (Aug 14, 2011)

I think the farmer may well be genuine, he's said you can go onto his land to check any time - this surely must be ebraced as a positive rather than a negative.

Can you get a group of friends to go walking in different directions with a bag of treats and a lead to see if you can find him?


I understand you must be sick with worry but try and stay positive!

x


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

This is a long shot, but have you always gone out in daylight, and do you constantly call and whistle for him? I remember hearing of a dog that bolted in fear twice and each time the owner had found her was when he went out at night. I assume the dog was so frightened and traumatised in the day and in daylight it must have hid, but when the owner went out at night constantly calling and whistling all around the area it had dissapeared the dog came from wherever it was hiding. So if thats something you havent done before then maybe try? In fact anythings worth a try.

If he is holed up somewhere likely he will be hungry too. Do you aways take chloe with you as well? If not it may be worth taking her, I know they were only together for a week, but a dogs nose and instincts are much better then ours, maybe chloe will get on a scent or if he is about and he knows shes about by scent or the scent she leaves in her pee, then that might even encourage him if he is hiding and lost or wandered off.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

He's back, He's home, He's back home!!!!!!
thank you everyone for keeping my hopes up, my friend next door just burst through my back door holding Jasper, he found him by the front door alive and well, minus his harness, so we're not sure who took that off of him, there was also food down for Chloe but he hasen't botherd eating it so i'm thinking someone did have him, seems really odd, but i'm so happy he's back home again, i will make an appointment to have him chipped first thing and get him a good collar with his name and post code on.
I am now going to update dogslost.
and tomorrow i will appologise to the farmer for suspecting him, and inform everyone else.

I have learned a big lesson here, but i'm glad it has a happy ending.
thanks again everyone.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> He's back, He's home, He's back home!!!!!!
> thank you everyone for keeping my hopes up, my friend next door just burst through my back door holding Jasper, he found him by the front door alive and well, minus his harness, so we're not sure who took that off of him, there was also food down for Chloe but he hasen't botherd eating it so i'm thinking someone did have him, seems really odd, but i'm so happy he's back home again, i will make an appointment to have him chipped first thing and get him a good collar with his name and post code on.
> I am now going to update dogslost.
> and tomorrow i will appologise to the farmer for suspecting him, and inform everyone else.
> ...


I saw you had posted and as I was opening it I kept thinking please let him be back please let him be back!!

So pleased for you and little Jasper that he is safe and well. If only they could speak Eh!!


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## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

FANTASTIC NEWS

I am so pleased for you

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## sashski (Aug 14, 2011)

Yaaay!! So happy for you!!

I think a little apology to the farmer wouldn't go amiss 

EDIT: sorry Martin, in my half asleep state this morning i missed the bit about you going to apologise!


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## Mollyspringer (Aug 16, 2011)

Thank goodness, yours was the first post I looked for this morning xx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Great news. I am so relieved


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

That is brilliant news. You and that boy are very, very lucky.

P.s I wonder if the farmer had him holed up to teach you a lesson!!!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

That's absolutely brilliant news and what a relief.

Jasper has been in my thoughts a lot over the past three days.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!!

I'm pleased that you are going to apologise to the farmer too.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

That is brilliant news. Lots of cuddles and kisses for Jasper.


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## totallypets (Dec 30, 2011)

What wonderful news. I have been so worried for you and Jasper - I think a glass of wine to celebrate is in order later.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

What excellent news!!! 
Can i be cheeky and ask for piccies as proof (not to drool over of course) :biggrin:


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

Thank you all so much for your support kind support you have really given me hope and i'm greatful to each and every one of you.
Today i spent a lot of time phoning all the people (kennels, vets etc.) who i asked to look out for him, that he has returned last night.
and i also went back up to the farm and made a sinsier apology to the farmer and i gave him a bottle of wine and offered to pay for the damaged wheel of his 4x4 buggy, (as he hit a stone and damaged the wheel while trying to rescue his sheep) costing £180, and i offered the cash to him but he point blank refused to take it off me.
i was really surprised that he didn't want the cash, but glad at the same time, as i'm pretty skint at the moment anyway.
but we made up as friends and left on a good note.

Tomorrow morning Jasper is getting his microchip fitted and i have now got him a new collar with tag.

When i look at him, it's as if nothing had ever happened, as if he was here all along, it just all seems like a bad dream which iv'e now woken up from.

first Jake dies (see my other thread) then on that same day Cliff a good friend of mine also dies only hours after Jake, then this happens, all in the space of 3 weeks, it's been a dreadful start to the new year.

as requested, attached is a photo i just took of Jasper back at home, i wrote the date on a sheet of paper to prove it's a recent photo!

thanks again everyone, i know exactly where to turn to for advice in the future now!


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## Mollyspringer (Aug 16, 2011)

Sorry you've had such a bad time. Life's crap sometimes isn't it? I hope things will get better now for you. By the way-Jasper is the spitting image of my Molly-terrors r us!!xx


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Awww thanks for the pic, Hes a darling.. obviously wore himself out. Hope hes back doing well today 
and :lol: :lol: :lol: Love the date stamp :biggrin:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Its a lovely photo of him, and I must say he looks none the worse for whatever the experience he had when missing, and not even bothered by all the panic and worry he caused Thats dogs for you resilient and bounce back.

So sorry you have had such a terrible time over the last weeks. Lets hope now after all the sadness and trauma it will be onward and upward.
Keep us posted how you are getting on.


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## Dogs4Evar (Mar 7, 2012)

I wouldn't make any hasty decisions just yet. 

Try to form a bond between the dogs. Take them for walks together, use other forms of socialisation also. 

Or, just give your dog a time-out when anything happens.

Hopefully you can get things sorted out.


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## Rolosmum (Oct 29, 2010)

So pleased Jasper is back home and looking well for his troubles! I would make sure you have a spare tag to hand to, just in case you lose one.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

Thanks again everyone for all your help, advice and support.
My life is slowly starting to return back to normal since Jake died (though i still dearly miss him) and Jasper coming along with all his problems.

Here's a new problem i'm needing advice for.
Regarding Jasper, It's one week ago since he ran away and returned home on Monday, and i now have had Jasper for exactly 2 weeks.

During his first week with me, i used to take him for his walk next to the sheep fields off his lead so he was able to run along the foot path and get some proper exercise, he seemed very obediant and always came to me when i blew the wistle.

It all went wrong last saturday when i decided to cut across the normally empty field which had sheep in it and he ran away chasing them (full story on this thread starting on page 4)

Since that ordeal, i have been taking him for that same walk (though not across the field) but kept him on his lead, as i don't feel i can trust him anymore, also when we walk past the fields, he's always looking into them through the fence, which he didn't do before, and i'm worried that if i took him off his lead, that he'll run towards the field and try and get through the fence. The first week i had him, i trusted him walking next to the fields as he showed no interest in looking through the fence.

The walk route is the ONLY local dog walk route we have around here (without having to drive to in the car) and dog's are alowed to run free on this route.

Any advice as what i could do? he needs to run, he's a Springer, they need to run, but there's no where around here to allow him to, now that he's experienced the sheep in the field, i'm worried in case he run's back into the field.

Also, because he's on his lead now (extendable lead 8m) he pulls too hard at times, and today i was going down hill, he pulled so hard, i had to run, and then let go as he almost pulled me over, lucky he did come back after i had to let go of him.

I have been looking at anti pull harnesses, collars and even ultrasonic gadgets which should stop him pulling.

What methods work best before i buy something?

thanks again.


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## abbieandchi (Jan 8, 2012)

Just read through this whole thread (what? It's a Sunday night dammit!) and I'm so pleased you got your boy back! Reading this was like watching a movie, honestly.

Kudos to you for apologising to the farmer too, that took guts.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

You could get a long line and keep him on that while you up the stakes on the recall training. Is he a foodie and is there certain things he loves, cheese, chicken, hotdogs, sausages, anything liver based are things dogs usually go mad over, the cheese spread in tubes is good too, usually just squeezing a little and they go made trying to lick and get more out the tube . Mine would walk through fire I think for cheese. Also is he toy orientated? Is there any special toys, One of mine big thing is tennis balls for example, she knows exactly where there are discarded and lost ones for example and gets really focused on tennis balls, Furry squeaky toys can work well with some dogs skineeze got good results with recall at training see link they are good as easy to carry too
http://www.doggiesolutions.co.uk/skinneeez-stuffing-free-dog-toys-15859-0.html

You could keep him on the long line, training so he keeps focus on you, instead of letting him do his own thing call him back frequently throughout the walk, some times use food, others toys, throw a ball and get hin to bring it back maybe, call and run in the other direction. Keep him guessing what he is going to get for coming back by making it interesting and varied. Sometimes play with the tug toy.
Hopefully with the training you will be able to improve getting and keeping his focus and his recall. Once he appears to be better and doesnt miss any recalls, then drop the long line and use it as a drag line, carry on doing all the training as before, if he misses an instant recall or you see his attention start to wander you still have the long line to grab. If he starts to go slightly off track revert back to having him back on the long line until back on track again, then try the drag line again. once that seems to be really reliable, I would then take him somewhere you can let him off but at first without too many distractions and see how he does then after a few sessions. If they go Ok and he is reliable, then try a time when there are a few more distractions and so on.

As You are doing the recall training firstly on a long line, he will have a little more freedom but cant get himself into too much bother, plus doing the recall training in stages you can guage how well he is doing, and either move forward or take a step back to the previous stage if you have too. Its certainly worth trying and its something you can do without worry too.

As regards to keeping a pet gun dog busy and stimulated a good book is The Pet Gundog By Lez Graham, that might be worth looking up and investing in for ideals and training programme too. I believe she has done a follow up book too.
Ive put up a link to the Lez Graham books if you want a look
The Pet Gundog - Gundog Training Testimonials

Hopefully some of the springer people will see the post anway they can make probably loads better suggestions then I can.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I think you should keep him on a long line or extending lead, but with a harness not a collar as this could damage his neck if he runs off. A no pull harness is of no use with an extending lead, it is designed to be used with a short lead like a headcollar is. Headcollars are very dangerous if used with an extending lead. When you have time, perhaps at the weekends, you should probably drive him somewhere else so that he can have a good run off lead.

But I still think he hasn't been with you long enough to be off lead at all. He doesn't know you well enough. I have had Diva since October and it is only this week that I have felt confident letting her off lead on the heath. Before that she was taken to the dog park, which is about 20 minutes drive and fully fenced in.


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## TheFredChallenge (Feb 17, 2011)

Wow - gosh I've just read all this (having been absent from the site for a while) and feel like I've read a novel!!

Thank the lord he came home eventually and I too probably would have felt a little suspicious of the said farmer (as he was the last to get a visual on him) but also I would have been just as apologetic. Very awkward moment I guess but had to be done and rightly so.

Well having had a Springer (who coincidentally we sadly lost 3yrs ago yesterday) we had such enjoyment from him. We got him aged 3 yrs and he had a great and lucky life going to Germany, Spain and everywhere basically we went! A great life till he died at 14 and I miss him a great deal. At first it was hideous and we left it 3yrs before getting another dog. Even then you compare (unfairly) and it takes time to get through the hard puppy hood. If I'm honest I found it tough and would think twice next time!!!

Thankfully my boy is growing up and life is much easier as he's starting to calm down and be good.

Back to Springers; I know what they can be like with their energy levels!!! Mine had had training as a gundog but the running off bit is all too familiar to read. He used to take himself off if we were in woods (safe areas) and disappear for about 5/10 mins before appearing back with gorse bush bits sticking out of him and the tongue happily hanging out of his mouth. Yes they do like to run and so I'd invest in a frisby and decent tennis balls (squeeky ones if you need to get him initially interested) and try these methods of exercise somewhere pretty safe. That way he does the running and you don't have to do anywhere near that to tire him out!

I would go for a harness (I used a non-pull harness) and would recommend that as it's safe for them and nothing around the head area when they're excitable/pulling. Also as previously suggested a harness doesn't pull on the neck. I would also use a standard lead when training to heal in more built up areas etc but then a flexi when he can have more freedom - *but* without being let off completely....unless totally safe. Crikey - we don't want another scary incident  :crying: 

I hope things are now starting to settle back down again a few days on as I write this. All the best


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

thanks yet again everyone for your valued advice, i have orderd one of thowes harnesses where the lead attaches at the front of the chest, as this makes sense to me, that if he pulls, the lead will force his body round and back towards me. 
I live i Wales, near Ammanford and who would think it that Wales is supposed to have more open country than anywhere in the uk, i actuarlly live in the country, yet i can't find anywhere local to let Jasper have a good safe run!
theres zero woodland forests around here, all fields are farm owned, and where ever you go, you fear tresspassing. All we have is pavements and one public foot path which is the one where i always take him, but with so many bends, he quickly runs out of my sight, and that Sheep field is right next to it.

For Wales i find it perthetic that there are so few places to let a dog have a good safe run without having to drive there by car.

We had a lovely dense woodland up in Carmel, that's about 3 miles away, but they have now cut down all the trees and it's a total mess now, apart from that theres no local forrests at all.

So frisby throwing will have to stay in my back garden or maybe on the footpath next to the sheep field if i can trust letting him off the lead.

I never had this problem with Jake as i only got him at age 5 and by then he had already slowed down somewhat.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> thanks yet again everyone for your valued advice, i have orderd one of thowes harnesses where the lead attaches at the front of the chest, as this makes sense to me, that if he pulls, the lead will force his body round and back towards me.
> I live i Wales, near Ammanford and who would think it that Wales is supposed to have more open country than anywhere in the uk, i actuarlly live in the country, yet i can't find anywhere local to let Jasper have a good safe run!
> theres zero woodland forests around here, all fields are farm owned, and where ever you go, you fear tresspassing. All we have is pavements and one public foot path which is the one where i always take him, but with so many bends, he quickly runs out of my sight, and that Sheep field is right next to it.
> 
> ...


Its still very early says yet really, Im sure with some good training and once he matures a bit too, he will be a lot easier, they all seem to go through a silly stage around 6mths, but with ongoing good training they do get through it although it might not feel like they will at times.


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## TheFredChallenge (Feb 17, 2011)

Mm....I know it can be difficult Martin. Would you think of taking him to a class/socialising or agility based class? That way with the latter he'd build your bond up i.e working closely with you, it would be in a safe area and it would give him something different to expel some energy.

Not every dog likes agility equipment/tunnels etc but it may be worth a go to see if he would like it?
Only an idea


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

Classes would be an option, but i'm guessing can be costly, and with my low paid job, i wouldn't be able to afford it, plus im in full time work so also wouldn't have the time.
Jasper and Chloe both come to work with me every day and sleep under my work bench, it's then on weekends and evenings that i like to take them on a long walk.
I did try him on the footpath next to the sheep field last night with his lead off, and he ran far ahead, so i wistled and called him, and he did come back but not imiediately and while he was up ahead, he was constantly looking towards the field to see if he could find an enterance, i felt un easy, so decided to put him on the lead again.

now that he has had a taste of chasing sheep, he dose'nt seem to stop wanting to do it again. will he slowly forget and grow out of thows thoughts?

I can notice him becoming better, and i'm sure it's just a matter of time until he's as good as Jake was.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

I don't know if it's been mentioned (long thread to read back :lol: ) but how is he with balls/dummy's/frisbees? Will he chase them instead? Its just that Jack won't take his eyes of me when we're playing one of his favourite games.. Might be worth a try


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Martin68 said:


> Classes would be an option, but i'm guessing can be costly, and with my low paid job, i wouldn't be able to afford it, plus im in full time work so also wouldn't have the time.
> Jasper and Chloe both come to work with me every day and sleep under my work bench, it's then on weekends and evenings that i like to take them on a long walk.
> I did try him on the footpath next to the sheep field last night with his lead off, and he ran far ahead, so i wistled and called him, and he did come back but not imiediately and while he was up ahead, he was constantly looking towards the field to see if he could find an enterance, i felt un easy, so decided to put him on the lead again.
> 
> ...


To be honest, you are taking a hell of a chance letting him off lead near those sheep. What happens if the farmer frightens him again? No one can really say whether he will grow out of it; all dogs are different, but I would not be risking his safety a second time.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> To be honest, you are taking a hell of a chance letting him off lead near those sheep. What happens if the farmer frightens him again? No one can really say whether he will grow out of it; all dogs are different, but I would not be risking his safety a second time.


Absolutely - farmers can shoot any dog that they reasonably believe is *about *to worry livestock and, given that your dog (OP) has already worried his livestock and you accused the farmer of all manner of things, he might not be so understanding second time around.


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## TheFredChallenge (Feb 17, 2011)

They say you can't really trust their actions till they're around 2yrs or more, and I've seen this so much with my own boy growing up. I became very wise to the unwanted behaviour traits and where and when to expect them....and therefore preventing  them as much as possible when I predicted one was in the offing. I still have to do this regularly at 16 months old...despite small improvements just recently as I think we've taken a small step up the maturity ladder - yaaaaay!!

When young (and sometimes even old) if you ignore the triggers and think the dog is improving - then too late; it will all go wrong again.

If it gives him a kick and enjoyment....which it does; then he will just go ahead and do it, so if you're taking chances he will almost definately take the opportunity if he can to get into that field. 
I would stay definately on lead.....even if an extendable so he at least gets to mooch about more. My boy is 33kg's but if I'm in doubt that he might do a runner to other people or dogs then the extendable is clipped back on to his harness and we can all relax......so it's  rather than hmy:

A pain for us sometimes....but the more they do the unwanted stuff the harder it is to sort out as time goes on.


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## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

I have found with my Springer she can be 'regimental' with her habits, if she started doing something I didn't like , I had to change things until she forgot about them. I wouldn't walk him near sheep off lead at all until you can trust him more.
Do you play 'find' it games- getting him to use his nose and find treats that you've scattered- you could then try walking past and play this at the same time.It takes time though.
We walk past a house with 2 very barky dogs who run up and down the fence , makes it very tempting for my lot to run and growl and bark , but now they wait for me to throw some stinky sausage.
Pleas dont let him off near sheep, I doubt you'd be as lucky again.


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## Martin68 (Aug 6, 2010)

don't worry, i didn't mean i let him off the lead right next to the sheep field.
our layout is a footpath that runs around the field, the footpath is quite some distance from the field and between the two, there is a steep bank which is totally over grown and fenced in. to get to the field you have to go through a gate, walk about 150 yards and then go through a second gate.

When i spoke to the farmer, he suggested that if i wanted to let Jasper off the lead, i should do it on that foot path as it's allowed there. also i tried this at around 7:30 when the light was getting gloomy and i had a torch, like that i knew the sheep would have gone in for the night.

I guess it was risky, and even though he stayed on the path, i still felt un easy, i just feel sorry for him and want him to have a good run. Chloe was off her lead and had a good run, so i felt sorry for Jasper. It seems so unfair how there are no safe facilities to let a dog run free on.


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