# Border collie aggression



## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)

So I bought a border collie puppy about 3-4 weeks ago now. We were told he was 10 weeks to the day we bought him, but his actual age, we've now been told is within 3-4 months (When we bought him) Which would mean he's roughly 5 months old now. Which would explain his behaviour. But we're having some bad trouble with him at the moment. As he cannot be walked due to having two more weeks before he can have his final injection and we do not have a garden we have settled for walking him around the block a few times a day when he starts to get a bit boisterous. But this morning it all suddenly got a lot worse. Hes beginning to bark loudly every morning between 7-8am and as we live in a tight knit area we're worried about getting complaints. He has also began to bite us when we try to put him on his lead. 

We know its probably due to boredom but at the moment theres not a lot we can do other than keeping him occupied with toys.

We know its not due to his food as we've been using Ardan Grange food which has no preservatives or E numbers in it, and we're careful with what treats we give him.

We've tried pheromone collars, shaking a tin with pasta or money in it, we've also tried the "No" and then walk out the room method. Nothing is working. We're not able to get anything done lately and my parents are on their last wits with him. I really want to make this work and im not willing to give up on him just like that. Is there anything we can do to help?


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Wow, a border collie and you dont even have a garden?? Very brave of you!!
Do yo do much training?? With working dogs its as important to keep their minds active as their bodies. Try to up the training and see if it helps, there is alot of obiedience work you can do whilst he is still growing then maybe try agility or doggy dancing! when he is older.
Good luck..


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## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)

We do, yes. We've taught him how to sit, and we're half way toilet trained with him. Its just difficult to do much more when we can only take him out for a certain amount of time. We did know what we were getting ourselves into and we're prepared to take him out as often as possible its just the risks of doing so at the moment. We've asked a dog school trainer from a nearby area to pay us a 1-1 visit this tuesday to see if she can help but really two more days of this is really asking for trouble


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2010)

In my honest opinion, I think you may have the wrong breed without a garden. But, I do hope it works out for you, Collies can be a bit of a handful to say the least


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## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)

Indeed they can  Merlin is a little crazy believe me. We were thinking the same before we considered it but we found so many oppotunities that were willing to give us a hand with training him with obedience and as soon as we can, agility. I guess time will tell -fingers crossed-


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lovehatetragedy said:


> So I bought a border collie puppy about 3-4 weeks ago now. We were told he was 10 weeks to the day we bought him, but his actual age, we've now been told is within 3-4 months (When we bought him) Which would mean he's roughly 5 months old now. Which would explain his behaviour. But we're having some bad trouble with him at the moment. As he cannot be walked due to having two more weeks before he can have his final injection and we do not have a garden we have settled for walking him around the block a few times a day when he starts to get a bit boisterous. But this morning it all suddenly got a lot worse. Hes beginning to bark loudly every morning between 7-8am and as we live in a tight knit area we're worried about getting complaints. He has also began to bite us when we try to put him on his lead.
> 
> We know its probably due to boredom but at the moment theres not a lot we can do other than keeping him occupied with toys.
> 
> ...


Oh dear. I hate answers like the one I am going to give you, because you are coming on here for help with a problem and I think that the best way to help with your problem is something you are not going to want to hear. I think you are right in that the problem is one of boredom rather than aggression, and I understand that it is being compounded because at the moment you can't even walk him. However, even when you can walk him regularly i still think you are going to struggle with a border collie living with no access to a garden.

Our two border collies (both adults now) are walked twice a day, every day (not just walked but let off lead and played ball games with). They are both show dogs, so we do training for that. In addition, they do YKC agility training and YKC flyball training. Yet to see them tearing aorund the garden, playing chase games with each other, playing "tug" games with their toys, you would think they never had any exercise at all. The only time they are still is when they are sleeping ......... and even then they play in their dreams! If they didn't have a garden, they would be bouncing off the walls.

So yes, once you can walk him it will be a little bit better; you can take him to general/obedience training sessions; and yes, when he is old enough you could do things like agility and flyball. You can give him stimulating toys where he has to work for his food. You can play with him in the flat. You can read The Bite Stops Here by Dr Ian Dunbar and train him to get his biting under control. All these will help to some extent - but a border collie will still need more exercise and stimulation than all this can give him.

Much I know you must love this dog and not want to give up on him, and much as I hate giving out advice like this, I think you should really be asking yourselves whether or not it would be better to rehome him now, while he is still young, to a family who could provide him with what he needs, rather than struggle with a border collie in a flat with no garden?

Sorry


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

If you cant give him the exercise he needs right now then all I can suggest is making him use his brain , a lot
Teach him tricks, high five , down , sit etc etc , if he is more advanced than that have a quick search on google for advanced dog tricks 
The more you make him focus on you the better it will be
You can even do lead work in the house , teaching him to stay close to heel etc

However , this breed does need A LOT of exercise
I have three Border collies , and they dont stop from when they get up in the morning (anytime between 6 - 7 am) until I make them calm down and relax in the evenings (I need the break from the constant racey chasey games , not them , lol)
they get three walks a day , each walk lasting roughly an hour , they get a chance to zoom around a huge field like lunatics each walk too ... they also have access to a garden all day , and they do nothing but play and chase each other

Once all his jabs etc are up to date do you have a park or fields where he can safely be let offlead to get rid of some of his energy ? get a ball launcher , excellent things , lol
I also highly recommend you get a long-line until his recall is 100% , better safe than sorry 

Id love to see a piccie of him :thumbup:


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## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! My sister and I took him on a walk in a field near by where we live where no other dogs are, hes calmed down massively, i guess we have to be a lot less stricter about where we walk him at the moment. We let him off his lead for a while and he had a good dash around, hes asleep at the moment so it looks like we've definitely worn him out! Mese, i added a photo below


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Look at all those nawty spots on his paws , sweet 
He's adorable


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## Oenoke (Oct 17, 2009)

Border Collies need alot of stimulation, both mental and physical. If i were you I'd enroll in a good obedience class as soon as you can. You really are going to struggle with a Border Collie if you live in an enclosed area with no access to a garden. I have 5 Border Collies ranging in age from 15 years to 6 months. In this video from this morning you will see my 4.75 year old, 6 month old and 12 year old running and the 15 year old and 9 year old mouching around, this was taken towards the end of them playing for about an hour.





I have done a bit of obedience, htm, breed showing, PAT dogs, agility and flyball with my dogs, I do a bit of training with all of them every week.


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## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)

We have done, the woman thats coming to see us on tuesday runs some classes we've paid in advance for. From what i've seen of her work shes absolutely fabulous with dogs. (Oenoke, i think we may have met on another forum, your dogs are gorgeous!)


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Lovehatetragedy said:


> We do, yes. We've taught him how to sit, and we're half way toilet trained with him. Its just difficult to do much more when we can only take him out for a certain amount of time. ........


But there's loads more you can do at home:
Down
Roll over
Sit, down and stand at distance - start close and build it up
Figure of 8 through your legs
Hide treats/toys while the dog is another room, he has to find them by scent (start with him watching you hide it, then build it up slowly).
A treat ball to play with
High 5 left paw, right paw, high 10
Wave
Wait
Stay
Recall
on lead round the house, with stops and sits.
Teach him the names of some objects - ball, sponge, raggy, glove etc that he can pick up and carry, chuck them around the room and get him to bring the one you say (be patient and keep it fun). You can train him to drop them into a bucket. Later on, you can send him to another room to find them.
Do you know anyone with vaccinated dogs he can meet to play with?


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## Deb (Jan 28, 2009)

we have a 2yr old collie and have a garden but i must admit we only let her into the garden during the finer months as the french doors lead into our dining room and i dont want mud etc draped in.We do have a yard leading into the utility where she can go for wee's etc. but she gets load of walks and runs on the beach or local field (hubby and i are shift workers so there's usually one of us around). She has a mad hr usually in the evenings where she runs round the house finding toys to throw at us to play with her but other than that she is quite laid back and usually sleeps after her walks.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Deb said:


> .... but other than that she is quite laid back and usually sleeps after her walks.


I knew there was a benefit to only having the one dog  ... mine egg each other on to play , and cos I have three dogs that means theres always one who is goading the others to chase them , its like perpetual motion , one might settle down but theres always two others on the go :lol:


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## Maiisiku (Feb 20, 2009)

I think I'm quite lucky with Yuri, he is a month younger than your boy. But he sleeps quite a bit. When he's not sleeping we train for 10-15 mins a day, he chases the cats  Plays with his elephant with me and plays with my daughter.

Definatly do lots of training with him, it tires them out. Anything like a cudly toy he can 'kill' etc. But I wouldn't cope with him if we didn't have a garden.


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## Dans Mum (Mar 5, 2010)

We have been lucky with Dan too - he is definitely not a 'worker' - i fact he is more like a clever lab in a collie coat 

Even though he does not have the working drive he is very clever and on tops of his 2hrs+ off lead walks we play and train for at least an hour every day. 

Try getting your pup some Nina Ottosson doggy puzzles - Dan loves his as he is very food motivated and that could lift his boredom a lot.

Good luck!

PS Dan has the same 'naughty spots' on his one remaining front leg


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## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)

Oops! I forgot to update 

Well the trainer came to see us on tuesday, shes enrolled us into some obedience classes starting in about 3 weeks time, shes also given us a correction spray which emits a loud hiss whenever he does something he shouldn't. And i have to say its like having a different dog. He's now listening to simple commands and we don't even have to spray it anymore, just show him the spray can and he starts to behave. Its absolutely amazing! Since hes become easier to talk to now I've been able to start some basic training such as "Lay down" and he even knows now when he can and can't lick people! All we need to say is "Kisses" or "No more kisses". I'm really proud of him!


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

Thats good as you have learnt collies learn really fast show them 3 times and they remember it. Once they realise that they have to listen and watch you they seem to come on in leaps and bounds.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

oh, good; cesar-millan-in-a-can, wonderful idea. 





nope - can't be arsed; *&%[email protected]! with it.


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## shibby (Oct 3, 2010)

Good to hear your pup is coming on, not seen the spray before...



leashedForLife said:


> oh, good; cesar-millan-in-a-can, wonderful idea.


 @ "Cesar-Millan-in-a-can"


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## deburs (May 4, 2009)

Please don't use the aversive sprays, or the rattle cans or shouting NO.. Your dog will come to fear you, your hands and noises, especially a collie who is sensitive. Do some research and think about these products you have decided to use (they appear to be quick fix and we humans all love quick fixes but dogs don't) Dogs need to be shown alternative things to do or the right way of acting. By adding bad things into his environment like the sprays, you have not shown him what you want from him instead. You don't have a problem with aggression - you just need to keep him busy as everyone has been saying.


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Lovehatetragedy said:


> Oops! I forgot to update
> 
> Well the trainer came to see us on tuesday, shes enrolled us into some obedience classes starting in about 3 weeks time, shes also given us a correction spray which emits a loud hiss whenever he does something he shouldn't. And i have to say its like having a different dog. He's now listening to simple commands and we don't even have to spray it anymore, just show him the spray can and he starts to behave. Its absolutely amazing! Since hes become easier to talk to now I've been able to start some basic training such as "Lay down" and he even knows now when he can and can't lick people! All we need to say is "Kisses" or "No more kisses". I'm really proud of him!


Thats great that he's listening to you hun , but please, throw that spray can away , the reason you only have to show it to cause him to behave is because he is scared/wary of it , its a punishment as far as he is concerned

All you need for a well behaved dog is a few treats & tons of praise.
By their very nature dogs want to please , so as long as you show him what to do you shouldnt need to repeat things to often before he catches on :thumbup:
If he shows behaviour you dont like a short simple noise or word said firmly should do it , whether thats ah-ah or no or anything else you fancy using that you want him to associate with not doing something

any more pics now he's growing up ?


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

LOL @ "Cesar Millan In A Can" 

Like the others have said, throw away the corrector spray (and the trainer who suggested it) and find someone who can teach you how to teach your boy what you DO want rather than concentrating on punishing what you DON'T want.

There is SO much you can do in the house to tire them out. Brain training is almost more knackering than physical exercise. When my girl had her first season and I didn't take her out (loads of offlead entire dogs round my way) I was dreading it but I upped the training/play sessions in the house and garden and TBH she wasn't really any livelier than she is when she's having her usual number of walks.


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## Lovehatetragedy (Jul 8, 2010)

This was a few months ago now, and he's now pretty much perfectly well behaved and friendly minus a few nips and bites every now and then but we know the reason for that now thanks to a behaviourist and our trainer. Updates are here. We havent used the spray can in a long while.


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