# Obesity a disabilty?



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Fat Danish childminder's EU bid to have obesity classed as disability | Mail Online

Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous?

When I was small at primary school with 200 pupils there was only one overweight child.

I only knew one very overweight adult at that same time.

Now maybe those two had a medical reason for it, but the 25% of the population of UK that are obese now certainly haven't. Other than overeating and under exercising


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I have no doubt obesity is a secondary result of some disabilities, be that mental or physical. But an actual disability itself? I can't think why someone would want it classified as such, apart from to get benefits, monetary or otherwise.

ETA: Its the people I know who are obese due to some other factor which are actually the best at dealing with it. Its those who are fat out of laziness who seem to whinge the most and feel the world owes them something. Yet again, people doing as they should ie. not smoking, excessively drinking or massively overeating lose out. What a surprise. This kind of thing will be another reason why many no doubt want us to leave the EU.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

The ONLY time I would consider obesity a disability is if it's a by-product of another serious condition. Otherwise, that is absolutely insane. The vast majority of people are obese because they eat too much and don't exercise enough.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I don't know about always eating too much as opposed to eating the wrong things.


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## Mr Gizmo (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm overweight,my sister obese as was my mother,my dad on the other hand is correct weight for his height.
Non of us three have any excuse or reason to be the way we are other than our own doing.
So IMO no it's not a disability.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

if it is due to overindulgence...rubbish?
It takes some effort to stay slim...
the older you are the more effort..


all of us can eat less rubbish and have smaller portions ...
that is really all what it is to it...if you have no condition that causes weight gain..

if I ate all I want I would be massive..
and if I had more will power I would lose that few pounds extra...

for which I blame only myself...:sad:


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

I used to have a neighbour who was exceptionally 'large' and she used to tell everyone it was a 'genetic' issue. She was so thick because her - much slimmer - brother lived 3 doors along from her and he told everyone it was bollax, she was just a lazy cow!! 

Because she was so big, she did eventually incure other health issues. Her partner was her carer and, between them, they used to rake in the benefits. She wouldn't stick to the diet plans given and her shopping consisted of junk food, beer and ****. Asda & Morrisons have see-through bags.  

Eventually, her legs became very bad and ulcerated. She was told again that she had to try and lose weight otherwise she'd end up with her legs being amputated. Her response to this news? "They can cut off my legs, I don't care, I'll get more benefits if they do!" 

So no, obesity should not be classed as a disability as it will merely encourage more cases like the above.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Mr Gizmo said:


> I'm overweight,my sister obese as was my mother,my dad on the other hand is correct weight for his height.
> Non of us three have any excuse or reason to be the way we are other than our own doing.
> So IMO no it's not a disability.


It harder for some than others to keep weight under control but as you say, that's still not a disability. 
If it was then those predisposed to inherited compulsive behaviours would also be disabled. Drunks, drug takers and smokers would all be disabled


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Just seen this on breakfast news. No way should obesity be classed as a disability. I understand it can be classed as a disorder or addiction and have no problem with spending money tackling obesity but no way should it be regarded as a disability. Agree with the doctor on the TV, rather than giving a blue badge to park closer they should be encouraged to park further away and walk more.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Being Obese is not a disabilty in it's self - it may lead to a disability or be caused by a disability but just being obese should not be classed as a disability.

According to this weight chart I fall into the Obese category - I walk everyday, can run up the stairs, touch my toes  - it would be ridiculous to categorise all obese people as disabled


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

*Two main reasons for obesity nowadays...the motor car and junk food.I only remember one fat kid at school in the fifties.Food was basic and fresh and most people walked everywhere.*


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I find that an insult actually.

Obesity can be caused by a disability sometimes, but for obesity to be classed as a disability! :confused1:

The world has gone mad!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Obesity itself is not a disability, but the effects of obesity can cause disabilities - such as osteoarthritis, for example. In such cses, the osteoarthritis is, and rightly so, classed as a disability.

A disability should not be judged on what caused it, but on what it is. I've kept off a lot of these latest threads discussing obesity because of the blatant discrimination on them, but I can't keep quiet any longer. It's about time people stopped looking at overweight people as if they were the scum of the earth.

What's the difference between someone who develops osteoarthritis in knees and hips because of being overweight, and someone who develops osteoarthritis in knees and hips through running/jogging? Nothing. Both have been caused by lifestyle choices. Both will be in the same amount of pain. Both will need the same level of treatment. Both will have the same drain on the NHS. However, no-one would look upon the jogger with derision, but everyone finds it ok to deride the overweight person.

Smokers were made into pariahs and now it's the turn of the overweight. What next, I wonder?


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

poohdog said:


> *Two main reasons for obesity nowadays...the motor car and junk food.I only remember one fat kid at school in the fifties.Food was basic and fresh and most people walked everywhere.*


It would be interesting to see how prevalent obesity has become in recent decades. Like you say, I imagine it's the rise in people eating utter crap and only driving everywhere.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

According to BMI charts I'm still obese, down from very obese. I would absolutely not consider myself disabled because of it! Perhaps if I weighed 400lbs I would be very limited in what I could do but at my current weight, no way. Even at my heaviest I would not have considered myself to have a disability. Yes, I struggled to walk far or at a fast pace, I was out of breath climbing stairs and stuff like that. But disabled?? No. 

I hate the way that all overweight people are seen simply as lazy f*ckers who sit around eating everything they know they shouldn't  We are not the scum of the earth and most of us would love not to be fat, it's not exactly nice for us you know. But weight loss isn't always the simple matter people make it out to be. In theory, yes, in practise, nope. I wonder how many of those who look at overweight people with disgust have actually battled obesity themselves? How many have had the snide comments? The upset of trying your hardest to shift the weight only to not lose so much as a pound for weeks?


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Obesity itself is not a disability, but the effects of obesity can cause disabilities - such as osteoarthritis, for example. In such cses, the osteoarthritis is, and rightly so, classed as a disability.
> 
> A disability should not be judged on what caused it, but on what it is. I've kept off a lot of these latest threads discussing obesity because of the blatant discrimination on them, but I can't keep quiet any longer. It's about time people stopped looking at overweight people as if they were the scum of the earth.
> 
> ...


I don't deride overweight people, my mum was fat for years - I would roll my eyes at her excuses though, ate the same as the rest of us she claimed forgetting that she would munch her way through a whole packet of biscuits for her supper and loved chocolate.

I worked with a lady, she is a really lovely girl but morbidly obese - her hubby and children are slim her problem was simply over eating/huge portion sizes and crisps.

On the face of it no different getting joint issues from over exercise compared to being obese but there is a difference in the treatment. Operations are more risky if you are hugely overweight and the effectiveness of any treatment may also be compromised - locally I believe you cannot have a hip replacement if you are obese, not to discrimate but simply the strain on a new hip is seen as too high and would need more operations.

I am also not convinved on other mobility issues causing obesity - you cannot get more disabled than my 30 year old neice she has no mobility at all yet she isn't in the slightest overweight


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> Obesity itself is not a disability, but the effects of obesity can cause disabilities - such as osteoarthritis, for example. In such cses, the osteoarthritis is, and rightly so, classed as a disability.
> 
> A disability should not be judged on what caused it, but on what it is. I've kept off a lot of these latest threads discussing obesity because of the blatant discrimination on them, but I can't keep quiet any longer. It's about time people stopped looking at overweight people as if they were the scum of the earth.
> 
> ...


Is it not that the jogger is reducing their risk of cancer and cardiac disease, and is more likely to have a smoother recover from any surgery for osteoarthritis since their weight doesn't put them at risk of complications?


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## Mr Gizmo (Jul 1, 2009)

poohdog said:


> *Two main reasons for obesity nowadays...the motor car and junk food.I only remember one fat kid at school in the fifties.Food was basic and fresh and most people walked everywhere.*


Not forgetting the invention of the video games consoles and home computing to keep people indoors and non-active. :sad:

Thanks for the chart Fleur,it makes interesting reading.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It's not a disability  it may be the byproduct of one but being fat isn't an illness. Letting yourself get to the point where it's affecting your life enough to be classed as a disability is your fault not an illness'. And if you're at that point why on earth are you looking after children?


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

I watched a TV programme recently on people eating and how they didn't understand why they were overweight .... so the cameras were set up in their home, and cameras were watching them - sometimes when they were out and about.... I couldn't believe they just had no idea of what they ate was "bad" for them - pizzas, one guy had a take-a-way meal, over 3000 calories in one meal, and he ate the lot....it looked revolting. 

When they watched the videos and saw what they actually ate they were shocked.... :lol: It's not rocket science is it. 3-4 take-a-ways a week, washed down with Coke, a few alcoholic beverages, biscuits, cut those out, walk a few blocks instead of getting the bus or driving and then see what happens....

So no, in most cases I'd say it's not a disability, it may well disable a many, but it's laziness on most part. 

I think many of us know what we should and should not be eating, provided everything is in moderation then we can get away with a lot, if you eat fatty foods, then walk a little bit further. 

During a tube strike in London many years ago I had to walk from Waterloo to my office in New Oxford Street, 15-20 minutes each way, within a week I was losing weight but eating the exact same food. Since then, when the tubes resumed work, I still opted for the 40 minute walk a day, through Covent Garden to pick up my fruit... loved it. Love walking. :thumbsup: Even better with dogs.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

8tansox said:


> I watched a TV programme recently on people eating and how they didn't understand why they were overweight .... so the cameras were set up in their home, and cameras were watching them - sometimes when they were out and about.... I couldn't believe they just had no idea of what they ate was "bad" for them - pizzas, one guy had a take-a-way meal, over 3000 calories in one meal, and he ate the lot....it looked revolting.
> 
> When they watched the videos and saw what they actually ate they were shocked.... :lol: It's not rocket science is it. 3-4 take-a-ways a week, washed down with Coke, a few alcoholic beverages, biscuits, cut those out, walk a few blocks instead of getting the bus or driving and then see what happens....
> 
> ...


Saw that programme few weeks back, one bloke poured double cream on his breakfast cereal  made me want to hurl!


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Those TV shows always reveal the people to be liars at worst, deluded at best but I am certain there are people out there that genuinely don't eat all that much and still struggle to keep their weight down- I am just the opposite. I eat like a pig. Healthy foods, fast foods- whatever, loads of em. No one believes it unless they know me and witness it! I used to be accused of being an anorexic I was that thin and it couldn't have been further from the truth! So I figure if there are people like me - then there must be those who struggle the other way.... In many ways my gran was one of those people. Always a big lady though she would have eaten only a fraction of what I did- and she was very active as well.


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## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> Saw that programme few weeks back, one bloke poured double cream on his breakfast cereal  made me want to hurl!


And then they wonder......


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Just want to make it clear to those that have got upset about people mentioning others with weight issues.

My father was the adult I knew who was obese, he had health issues and died young because of it.

I still don't think it should have been classed as a disability and neither did he. He worked 6 days a week as a builder, not exactly a sedentary job.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Thats the trouble with takeaways though, nobody knows how many calories are in them.

Why should an average size pizza.which really is only bread dough topped with tomato sauce cheese and maybe some ham be so high?

Why should a kebab...either on pitta bread or naan.....fresh salad, chilli sauces and some griddled meat be horrific in calories?

Its true that years ago everybody walked everywhere but also lifestyles were different too. Now, people work long hours, a couple come home from work bring home something on the way maybe so very little clearing up afterwards, sit in front of the TV and thats it.

Some new houses been built a few miles from here. Quite largish ones with tiny gardens. No grass on the gardens, some blocks of stone with soil and stone chippings. I went to look at the showhouse and asked why the gardens were like they were and told cos people don't want to be coming home from work and even sorting a garden out. Very sad, all work and no leisure time.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

The way i read it is that they would like to be be classed as a disability in order to prevent discrimination.

It does seem to be more acceptable to be abusive and offensive towards the overweight. Maybe because people think they deserve it perhaps?

I dont think its a physical disability as such, but could certainly fall under mental disability with some individuals, the same as anorexia and bulimia does. Many people have very disturbing relationships with food, and it should not be acceptable to abuse and ridicule one side, whilst understanding and justifying the other.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I don't know why some people get so upset and uptight about somebody else's weight. fat people don't ask for anybody else to pay for their food, any more than a smoker expects others to pay for his cigarettes.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

No, obesity is not a disability.

If someone is too overweight to do a particular job properly, then the employer has every right not to employ them.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

rona said:


> Fat Danish childminder's EU bid to have obesity classed as disability | Mail Online
> 
> Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous?
> 
> ...


If its due to a medical Issue that causes metabolic problems then you could call it a disability as there is a medical reason for it. Likewise I suppose if you have physical disabilities or serious mobility problems and difficuties in walking or taking enough exercise so have trouble getting and keeping weight off too.

If its due too eating too many Mackie D;s and other junk food because you like it and its the only reason, and never attempt to exercise even if there is no physical reason why you couldn't, then its a bit hard pressed to call it a disability.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

jenniferx said:


> Those TV shows always reveal the people to be liars at worst, deluded at best but I am certain there are people out there that genuinely don't eat all that much and still struggle to keep their weight down- I am just the opposite. I eat like a pig. Healthy foods, fast foods- whatever, loads of em. No one believes it unless they know me and witness it! I used to be accused of being an anorexic I was that thin and it couldn't have been further from the truth! So I figure if there are people like me - then there must be those who struggle the other way.... In many ways my gran was one of those people. Always a big lady though she would have eaten only a fraction of what I did- and she was very active as well.


I've got a friend like this. She eats and eats and eats and is underweight. And I'm talking pizza, chips, ice cream, chocolate etc, not sitting around eating veggies 

If these tv shows showed people eating healthily, exercising and still struggling they'd be pretty boring to be honest. Not all of us are deluded as to how much we're eating  Yes, I have the odd thing I "shouldn't" have such as a trip to the ice cream parlour or a piece of cake or a takeaway but I don't pretend I didn't have it and I make allowances for them. But sadly people seem to see these tv shows and think that's exactly what we're all like!

I also think a lot of people are deluded thinking that if you need to lose weight you can't eat "normal" food or normal amounts of food. I eat between 1400 and 1600 calories a day at the moment to lose weight and people seem to think I should barely be able to eat anything, I get comments like "thought you wanted to lose weight?" and "you won't lose weight eating like that!". But the reality is that if I make the right choices I can actually eat a hell of a lot. If I make the wrong choices then I can eat very little.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

so would that go as far as sack them if they gained weight after getting the job?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

If they're too fat to do the job then they shouldn't be allowed to run around crying about discrimination and fat shaming. If you can't do a job, you can't do a job. And yes if you let yourself get too fat to do it safely when you're hired then they have every right to fire you because you are no longer able to do it .

But of course people will start screeching about fat shaming, generally the same people who happily say things like real women have curves


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

lilythepink said:


> so would that go as far as sack them if they gained weight after getting the job?


My understanding is if with reasonable adjustments anyone can no longer do a job they can be dismissed - so I assume the answer would be yes but it would take a long time and a lot of paperwork to ensure someone wasn't being discriminated against.

I worked somewhere where a very large man was offered a job - in an office so mobility was not an issue - however the business were unable to source a chair large and strong enough for him and a desk that could be set up in a way that he could reach the keyboard etc without compromising his posture, so after months of visits from various H&S personnel and the people who asses needs and make recommendations the offer of a job had to be withdrawn as the business was unable to provide a safe working environment for him.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Fleur said:


> My understanding is if with reasonable adjustments anyone can no longer do a job they can be dismissed - so I assume the answer would be yes but it would take a long time and a lot of paperwork to ensure someone wasn't being discriminated against.
> 
> I worked somewhere where a very large man was offered a job - in an office so mobility was not an issue - however the business were unable to source a chair large and strong enough for him and a desk that could be set up in a way that he could reach the keyboard etc without compromising his posture, so after months of visits from various H&S personnel and the people who asses needs and make recommendations the offer of a job had to be withdrawn as the business was unable to provide a safe working environment for him.


so then would that not mean he was unable to work....so it would be classed as a disability?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Fleur said:


> My understanding is if with reasonable adjustments anyone can no longer do a job they can be dismissed - so I assume the answer would be yes but it would take a long time and a lot of paperwork to ensure someone wasn't being discriminated against.
> 
> I worked somewhere where a very large man was offered a job - in an office so mobility was not an issue - however the business were unable to source a chair large and strong enough for him and a desk that could be set up in a way that he could reach the keyboard etc without compromising his posture, so after months of visits from various H&S personnel and the people who asses needs and make recommendations the offer of a job had to be withdrawn as the business was unable to provide a safe working environment for him.


Not being able to source a chair big enough or strong enough would have to mean the poor man was massive?


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Im severely overweight ... it causes issues with my back , my knees are taking a hell of a knocking and I cant walk without a cane
My problem is comfort eating (all the wrong foods) through depression over my sociophobia & extreme loneliness

IMO the obesity itself *is not and should never be* classed as a disability ... its a symptom of other underlying causes ... address those and the obesity will disappear

Having it recognised as a disability for just being fat is simply ridiculous and will help no-one in the long run


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> so would that go as far as sack them if they gained weight after getting the job?


Well, I would suggest they have made themselves unemployable in that job.

Should an employer pay wages to someone who can't do the job they were employed to do because they have put on weight - for no other reason that they eat too much and exercise too little?

If it were possible to move that person to another position, then that would be a fair compromise.

But, I don't believe anyone has a right to a job and if I ran a small business I would only want to employ people who could do the job I was paying them for. It's not discrimination - certain jobs require certain skills and abilities.

Currently, I work as a cook. If I became too big to stand for 4 hours, cooking in a hot and cramped kitchen - should my employer be forced to keep me on?

They could possibly move me to a job on Reception but other than that all other jobs there are physical - i.e. cleaner, gardener, odd-job man, etc.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> I've got a friend like this. She eats and eats and eats and is underweight. And I'm talking pizza, chips, ice cream, chocolate etc, not sitting around eating veggies
> 
> If these tv shows showed people eating healthily, exercising and still struggling they'd be pretty boring to be honest. Not all of us are deluded as to how much we're eating  Yes, I have the odd thing I "shouldn't" have such as a trip to the ice cream parlour or a piece of cake or a takeaway but I don't pretend I didn't have it and I make allowances for them. But sadly people seem to see these tv shows and think that's exactly what we're all like!
> 
> I also think a lot of people are deluded thinking that if you need to lose weight you can't eat "normal" food or normal amounts of food. I eat between 1400 and 1600 calories a day at the moment to lose weight and people seem to think I should barely be able to eat anything, I get comments like "thought you wanted to lose weight?" and "you won't lose weight eating like that!". But the reality is that if I make the right choices I can actually eat a hell of a lot. If I make the wrong choices then I can eat very little.


I always tend to take people at face value with what they say about what they eat (except my other half who is a dirty rotten liar!).

When I was wee I always showing up as dramatically underweight so my school insisted I was taken to the doctors, referred to a consultant and was monitored and tested over the course of my development- things like bone age scans etc... their conclusion after all that when they signed me off was that I was just a naturally petite person who was set to burn off things fast. The funny thing is, is that exercise doesn't play that much of a role for me- I can up the activity dramatically and my weight will not change. If I have a stomach bug however and can't consume my usual troughfull it just falls away in no time at all! You're talking noticeable/measurable losses day on day!I've got better as I've gotten older. I don't think anyone would assume I have an eating disorder these days but I still haven't been over 7.5 stone at 5'4.

I guess it's just complicated- and poorly understood. Everyone always says it's calorie in/calorie out but I know it has to be more- and not necessarily pathological- based on my own experiences, albeit in reverse to most people.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I don't think Obesity it's self should be classed as a disability - however if someone is disabled because of their weight then they should be given the assistance they need to make their life easier and improve their health.



lilythepink said:


> so then would that not mean he was unable to work....so it would be classed as a disability?


I don't know the details as I only worked in the office I wasn't dealing with him directly - I believe he was classed as disabled due to bad knees (which for all I know could of been caused by his disability or the bad knees came first causing him to put on weight)



lilythepink said:


> Not being able to source a chair big enough or strong enough would have to mean the poor man was massive?


He was - I've never seen someone so big before or since - it was very sad as he struggled with everyday tasks. He seemed a lovely man who was having a difficult time.

I know the business spent a lot of time and money trying to get him into the role - more than a lot of places would of done, but it just wasn't to be.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> ]


so then would that not mean he was unable to work....so it would be classed as a disability?

In my opinion, no. The desk and chair supplied were the norm. His size prevented him from taking his position at the workstation. 

Not being able to source a chair big enough or strong enough would have to mean the poor man was massive?

Which makes one wonder why he was ever offered the job in the first place. The employer must have known that they did not have any chairs that could accommodate his size. Should the onus be on the employer to provide equipment such as that, presumably at high cost?


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Obesity itself is not a disability, but the effects of obesity can cause disabilities - such as osteoarthritis, for example. In such cses, the osteoarthritis is, and rightly so, classed as a disability.
> 
> A disability should not be judged on what caused it, but on what it is. I've kept off a lot of these latest threads discussing obesity because of the blatant discrimination on them, but I can't keep quiet any longer. It's about time people stopped looking at overweight people as if they were the scum of the earth.
> 
> ...


Although I think people place too much emphasis on an individuals choices when looking at obese persons and not enough at the influence of the food industry and modern life, it's dangerous to 'accept' obesity. There are a multitude of benefits to sensible exercise with some downsides as opposed to obesity that causes a multitude of problems and no real benefits I can think of. It's an extremely serious problem for the individual and for society and although you can argue against derision of the individual, it's not productive to deny or trivialise the dire consequences of the problem.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

jenniferx said:


> I always tend to take people at face value with what they say about what they eat (except my other half who is a dirty rotten liar!).
> 
> When I was wee I always showing up as dramatically underweight so my school insisted I was taken to the doctors, referred to a consultant and was monitored and tested over the course of my development- things like bone age scans etc... their conclusion after all that when they signed me off was that I was just a naturally petite person who was set to burn off things fast. The funny thing is, is that exercise doesn't play that much of a role for me- I can up the activity dramatically and my weight will not change. If I have a stomach bug however and can't consume my usual troughfull it just falls away in no time at all! You're talking noticeable/measurable losses day on day!I've got better as I've gotten older. I don't think anyone would assume I have an eating disorder these days but I still haven't been over 7.5 stone at 5'4.
> 
> I guess it's just complicated- and poorly understood. Everyone always says it's calorie in/calorie out but I know it has to be more- and not necessarily pathological- based on my own experiences, albeit in reverse to most people.


God, how I wish I was like that to some extent lol. I've always been on the heavier side. My lowest adult weight is 10 stone which is still considered overweight for my height (5ft2) yet I didn't look overweight and was a size 10 so neither fat nor skinny really.

I was fat as a kid, lost it at around age 12, gained some at 19 when I moved in with my ex and ate crap, got back down to 10 stone on WW and kept it off until I was about 25ish when they changed my epilepsy meds. Ballooned to over 16 stone then despite still following WW and am now in the process of losing that weight. So yeah, I try not to judge people on their weight because you don't know all the factors involved regardless of whether they're overweight or underweight. And I know naturally thin people are often just as much of a target as fat people are when it comes to the assumptions and snide remarks.

Obviously there are those who are obese because they ate too much or the wrong sorts of things and all that. But I certainly didn't just "let" myself get fat. I tried everything I could to stop that 4lb a week weight gain, including having someone else take charge of everything I ate and drank so I could not cheat.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Lurcherlad said:


> so then would that not mean he was unable to work....so it would be classed as a disability?
> 
> In my opinion, no. The desk and chair supplied were the norm. His size prevented him from taking his position at the workstation.
> 
> ...


The business assumed they would be able to get one - it was a large office and there were a number of chairs (and desks) bought for specific workers - from very tall, those with mobility problems and people with bad backs etc
Off the top of my head I can think of one worker who was about 6'9" he had a chair and desk specifically bought in for him and 2 other members of staff who had bad backs that meant they couldn't sit for long periods of time who had desks on hydraulics that could be raised so they could stand when required.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> so then would that not mean he was unable to work....so it would be classed as a disability?
> 
> In my opinion, no. The desk and chair supplied were the norm. His size prevented him from taking his position at the workstation.
> 
> ...


he wanted to work. If he was disabled(as in a wheelchair) they would have adapted plenty to make this possible.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

dis - having a privative, negative, or reversing force
ability - the means or skill to do something.

therefore disability = Not having the means or skill to do something.

Clearly being obese can be a disability if defined in this way, there are some things they cannot do due to their size. But it's more often than not self inflicted and it's not an illness even if it is a disability.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lizz1155 said:


> Is it not that the jogger is reducing their risk of cancer and cardiac disease, and is more likely to have a smoother recover from any surgery for osteoarthritis since their weight doesn't put them at risk of complications?


Oh sorry, I was forgetting that people who aren't overweight don't get cancer or heart disease or reactions to anaesthetics  (Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if that were true?)

Seriously though, why is that a reason to hold the overweight person in derision and not the jogger? Why should people feel that that gves them a right to mock and publicly name-call overweight people?

People with lighter coloured eyes are more at risk of cataracts and macular degeneration than people with dark coloured eyes if they don't wear sunglasses - would you hold the person with lighter coloured eyes in the same kind of derision as the overweight person because they too may have a need for more NHS care than others? I think not - unless of course that's going to be the next set of people it's going to be ok to discriminate against.


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> Oh sorry, I was forgetting that people who aren't overweight don't get cancer or heart disease or reactions to anaesthetics  (Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if that were true?)


Lovely example of a straw man fallacy  Are you familiar with the concept of Relative Risk? 

Oh, and if it helps, I mock jogger's too


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> he wanted to work. If he was disabled(as in a wheelchair) they would have adapted plenty to make this possible.


Yes, but he wasn't disabled.

I really think there is a difference. 

The company that FLEUR is referring to is in the minority, I'm sure.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> Oh sorry, I was forgetting that people who aren't overweight don't get cancer or heart disease or reactions to anaesthetics  (Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if that were true?)
> 
> Seriously though, why is that a reason to hold the overweight person in derision and not the jogger? Why should people feel that that gves them a right to mock and publicly name-call overweight people?
> 
> People with lighter coloured eyes are more at risk of cataracts and macular degeneration than people with dark coloured eyes if they don't wear sunglasses - would you hold the person with lighter coloured eyes in the same kind of derision as the overweight person because they too may have a need for more NHS care than others? I think not - unless of course that's going to be the next set of people it's going to be ok to discriminate against.


How can you compare being born with a particular coloured eye with someone being overweight because of poor choices?

I am overweight - it's my own fault - end of. I would not expect an employer to fall over backwards to accommodate me in a job that I was not physically able to do.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

It very much depends on the situation IMHO. 

I was on meds (mirtazapine) that made me seriously hungry, I mean off the scale ravenous, nothing live I've ever experienced before (it was written as a main side effect) and I gained like 3 stone in 8 weeks. 

I stopped the meds, but continued to gain weight, despite eating fairly well, seems it affected my metabolism somehow. 

Being greedy and becoming overweight is not a disability IMO.... but the things that cause such behaviour often are


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

See, this is the kind of discrimination I'm talking about. An overweight man who put cream on his cereal elicits a comment such as



8tansox said:


> And then they wonder......


Yet thin people who pig out elicit no such comment:



jenniferx said:


> I eat like a pig. Healthy foods, fast foods- whatever, loads of em.





Sarah1983 said:


> I've got a friend like this. She eats and eats and eats and is underweight. And I'm talking pizza, chips, ice cream, chocolate etc, not sitting around eating veggies


The only difference in the first quiote and the two quotes above is one of metabolism. Why is it acceptable to deride pople with a slow metabolism and not people with a fast metabolism?

And why do poeple ignore quotes such as



jenniferx said:


> In many ways my gran was one of those people. Always a big lady though she would have eaten only a fraction of what I did- and she was very active as well.





Sarah1983 said:


> Obviously there are those who are obese because they ate too much or the wrong sorts of things and all that. But I certainly didn't just "let" myself get fat. I tried everything I could to stop that 4lb a week weight gain, including having someone else take charge of everything I ate and drank so I could not cheat


and continue to view overweight people as lazy and greedy people?



Nonnie said:


> The way i read it is that they would like to be be classed as a disability in order to prevent discrimination.


Exactly Nonnie - and if the discriminatory posts on here are a true example of how people feel in the real world then I've changed my mind - obesity SHOULD be classed as a disability. At least then oveweight people will be protected against discrimination, especially in the workplace.

It does seem to be more acceptable to be abusive and offensive towards the overweight. Maybe because people think they deserve it perhaps?



Nonnie said:


> I dont think its a physical disability as such, but could certainly fall under mental disability with some individuals, the same as anorexia and bulimia does. Many people have very disturbing relationships with food, and it should not be acceptable to abuse and ridicule one side, whilst understanding and justifying the other.


Well said!


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

My mum is now 74. She used to smoke between 20 and 30 cigarettes a day but was then a size 12. and 5'4

She decided just over 30 years ago to quit smoking but she started eating instead. She would call at the local paper shop on her way to work and buy 3 mars bars and would have eaten them before she got back in her car.

Her weight ballooned and she tried all sorts of fad diets including the cambridge diet that put her in hospital.

She now weighs around 16 stone. Far too much for her small frame and age. She is constantly watching her weight. I have seen what she eats. Nothing fried, no chocolate, no sweets, no pastry and very limited bread. The weight sticks.

I don't think losing weight is the easy option for most people...cos if it was that simple everybody would be at an ideal weight for their size etc.

I really can't get my head around venom directed at fat people.....doesn't make sense...and I would love somebody to give my mother some grief over her weight cos she would release the cracken on them.


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

If obesity were to be classified as a disability, I'm curious how this would impact overweight children. I'm not sure it's right to label children "disabled" if they're obese? It's like a double-whammy of stigma.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> How can you compare being born with a particular coloured eye with someone being overweight because of poor choices?


One person is born with a slow metabolsim (not their fault) and puts on weight. Their fault

One person is born with light coloured eyes (not their fault) and does not wear sunglasses. Their fault.

Both need extra NHS resources to deal with their condition. No difference.

Why should the overweight person be derided for putting on weight and the person with light coloured eyes not be derided for not wearing sunglasses?



Lurcherlad said:


> I am overweight - it's my own fault - end of. I would not expect an employer to fall over backwards to accommodate me in a job that I was not physically able to do.


I am overweight. I perform my work to a high standard. I need a larger chair. Why should I be sacked because it's allowed in this day and age to mock me and discriminate against me?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I dont get the double standards when it comes to eating and weight.

I know a woman, she is now in her 50's, and she has been bulimic since she was 15. She has suffered a vast variety of health problems associated with this, has never worked a day in her life, is probably in hospital or picked up by ambulance once a week, and has a daily carer provided by social services.

You would never hear someone tell her 'just eat more - problem solved' or 'your problems are self inflicted by poor lifestyle choices' as, and quite rightly perhaps, people can recognise that she is suffering from an illness, one that is classed as a disability, albeit a mental one.

Why can't overweight people be extended the same compassion and courtesy? Why does every just jump on the 'lazy, greedy fatty' bandwagon, and feel its acceptable to judge and ridicule?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> My mum is now 74. She used to smoke between 20 and 30 cigarettes a day but was then a size 12. and 5'4
> 
> She decided just over 30 years ago to quit smoking but she started eating instead. She would call at the local paper shop on her way to work and buy 3 mars bars and would have eaten them before she got back in her car.
> 
> ...


The fact that your mother did lots of fad diets is probably the reason that she can't get to a healthy weight now. She has messed up her metabolism. I suspect that is true for many overweight people. Starve themselves one minute and then eat excessively the next. Most people who are overweight do have an unhealthy relationship with food. I know I do.

This isn't me "bashing fat people" - it's just a sad fact of dieting. It doesn't work. There is no simple, quick fix. If there were I would be a size 14


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Right because no one tells thin people to eat more or twue women have curves/no real man likes bones etc. 

I'm 5ft and at least 200lbs, I fall under obese I think but I'm working on it. It's my fault for eating too much and not doing enough. I could say it's genetics after all my mum is big or I could accept responsibility. I wouldn't expect a business to make extra allowances just to hire me if I couldn't do a job properly.


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## staffgirl (May 1, 2013)

If someone is carrying out their work to a high standard then surely there'd be no reason to fire them, regardless of their size?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> The fact that your mother did lots of fad diets is probably the reason that she can't get to a healthy weight now. She has messed up her metabolism. I suspect that is true for many overweight people. Starve themselves one minute and then eat excessively the next. Most people who are overweight do have an unhealthy relationship with food. I know I do.
> 
> This isn't me "bashing fat people" - it's just a sad fact of dieting. It doesn't work. There is no simple, quick fix. If there were I would be a size 14


totally agree with you re all the fad diets that went on for about 20 years. Her eating is fine now but even at her heaviest you would never call her lazy.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

staffgirl said:


> If someone is carrying out their work to a high standard then surely there'd be no reason to fire them, regardless of their size?


Tbh, i think one of the main issues many people have with obesity has nothing to do with whether or not its healthy, and everything to do with the fact people just dont like how overweight people look.

I would bet money that they could prove being fat was 100% healthy, and there would still be a furore over it, as it boils down to aesthetics and what people find visually appealing and attractive. Or not, in this case.

Of all the 'lifestyle choices' that impact on health, obesity is at the forefront, as people care about what others look like.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

staffgirl said:


> If someone is carrying out their work to a high standard then surely there'd be no reason to fire them, regardless of their size?


Police Scotland recently published a report on fitness levels of local Police. We don't see many Police officers round here anyway so I couldn't comment on their weight but something like 800 failed the test. some have left their jobs.

So many options in a Police force, I am sure alternatives could be found for the heavier ones and then weight issues addressed.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver, I haven't seen anyone derided or mocking here? I don't think overweight people are lazy - as I said my mum was fat because she ate too much but she worked very hard running the home and was a good mum.

I mentioned the chap putting double cream on his cereal - he was on a programme on the television complaining that he did not understand why he could not lose weight so the poster who responded "then they wonder why" is it really that unreasonable?

I also disagree that overweight get more grief - everywhere I have worked no one ever makes any comment whatsoever to any one who is overweight. I was always stick thin and had constant barbs & jokes that everyone thought was oh so funny, my boss calls me the scrawny bird. I don't get offended as I know he is just an ignorant git. One of the staff now is seriously underweight, everyone suspects she has an eating disorder but still constantly comment about her weight and eating more, nothing is said to the large ladies though ever


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lizz1155 said:


> Lovely example of a straw man fallacy  Are you familiar with the concept of Relative Risk?
> 
> Oh, and if it helps, I mock jogger's too


It was a good example, wasn't it? But then, it was merely in reply to the original straw man fallacy introduced by you  - I asked why it was acceptable to deride an overweight person who develops osteoarthritis and not deride a jogger who develops osteoarthritis, and instead of answering that premise you produced the lovely straw man of cardiac disease and longer opreation recovery rates 

And yes, I am quite familiar with the concept of relative risk - but I still have not had an answer as to why it is felt to be ok to deride an overweight person


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

staffgirl said:


> If someone is carrying out their work to a high standard then surely there'd be no reason to fire them, regardless of their size?


If they can do their job then there's no need to fire them. But if a job requires you to be very mobile as I imagine a childminder does and you get out of breath very quickly? Which isn't always reliant on weight of course, thin people can be very unfit as well.


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## staffgirl (May 1, 2013)

Nicky10 said:


> If they can do their job then there's no need to fire them. But if a job requires you to be very mobile as I imagine a childminder does and you get out of breath very quickly? Which isn't always reliant on weight of course, thin people can be very unfit as well.


Yes! Totally agree. For me it's all down to ability to carry out your job.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Spellweaver, I haven't seen anyone derided or mocking here?
> I mentioned the chap putting double cream on his cereal - he was on a programme on the television complaining that he did not understand why he could not lose weight so the poster who responded "then they wonder why" is it really that unreasonable?


If the poster had responbded with "then *he* wonders why", I would agree with you. But the poster used "*they*" - ie extrapolating it to every overweight person and intimating that "*they*" were all oveweight because of this kind of inappropriate eating.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

There's no way around it, the UK, along with other countries is becoming fatter
http://www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB13648/Obes-phys-acti-diet-eng-2014-rep.pdf

It's not all the fault of the person putting the food in their mouths, though I still feel that many could make better choices. 
Sugar content of soft drinks brands

Top sources of added sugar in our diet - NHS Choices

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/167938/Summary_Report.pdf


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> It was a good example, wasn't it? But then, it was merely in reply to the original straw man fallacy introduced by you  - I asked why it was acceptable to deride an overweight person who develops osteoarthritis and not deride a jogger who develops osteoarthritis, and instead of answering that premise you produced the lovely straw man of cardiac disease and longer opreation recovery rates
> 
> And yes, I am quite familiar with the concept of relative risk - but I still have not had an answer as to why it is felt to be ok to deride an overweight person


Actually, you asked "what's the difference", not "why is it acceptable to deride" - so I stand by my original answer 

When resources are limited, apparently you've got to start looking at who would have the best outcomes to particular courses of treatment. Which is why overweight people are waaay down the transplant-priority list. :/ The outcomes are unacceptably low.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Spellweaver, I haven't seen anyone derided or mocking here? I don't think overweight people are lazy - as I said my mum was fat because she ate too much but she worked very hard running the home and was a good mum.
> 
> I mentioned the chap putting double cream on his cereal - he was on a programme on the television complaining that he did not understand why he could not lose weight so the poster who responded "then they wonder why" is it really that unreasonable?
> 
> I also disagree that overweight get more grief - everywhere I have worked no one ever makes any comment whatsoever to any one who is overweight. I was always stick thin and had constant barbs & jokes that everyone thought was oh so funny, my boss calls me the scrawny bird. I don't get offended as I know he is just an ignorant git. One of the staff now is seriously underweight, everyone suspects she has an eating disorder but still constantly comment about her weight and eating more, *nothing is said to the large ladies though ever*


I don't think anyone would say anything to larger people these days because it's becoming the norm. It's not even noticed unless it's extreme


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## staffgirl (May 1, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> People with lighter coloured eyes are more at risk of cataracts and macular degeneration than people with dark coloured eyes if they don't wear sunglasses


Bugger. Didn't know that. Adding sunglasses to my shopping list. Cheers Spellweaver!

Sorry - back to the real thrust of the thread.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

People certainly make comments to me.... fat uggo, sniggering, throw stuff at me on the bus


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## staffgirl (May 1, 2013)

Muze said:


> People certainly make comments to me.... fat uggo, sniggering, throw stuff at me on the bus


How horrible for you.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> Police Scotland recently published a report on fitness levels of local Police. We don't see many Police officers round here anyway so I couldn't comment on their weight but something like 800 failed the test. some have left their jobs.
> 
> So many options in a Police force, I am sure alternatives could be found for the heavier ones and then weight issues addressed.


It's not just heavier ones but could be age related too. I had a friend in the fire brigade who was forced to retire early because he failed his fitness test due to age related issues. He was 52.

The government are now trying to get them to work until 60   Fine if they can be shuffled to fire prevention as my friend was when he fought to stay a fireman


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Nonnie said:


> I dont get the double standards when it comes to eating and weight.
> 
> I know a woman, she is now in her 50's, and she has been bulimic since she was 15. She has suffered a vast variety of health problems associated with this, has never worked a day in her life, is probably in hospital or picked up by ambulance once a week, and has a daily carer provided by social services.
> 
> ...


Because most overweight people are not suffering from an illness, be it mental or physical.

My unhealthy relationship with food cannot be compared to someone who is bulimic or anorexic - it's just so simple - I consume more calories than my body burns off. For no other reason than I lack the strength of will to limit my calorie intake.

I'm not a bad person. I'm not lazy. I'm just not very good at controlling what I eat. That is a fact.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Muze said:


> People certainly make comments to me.... fat uggo, sniggering, throw stuff at me on the bus


  

Morons that's all I can say


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

rona said:


> I don't think anyone would say anything to larger people these days because it's becoming the norm. It's not even noticed unless it's extreme


I think you are right Rona, one of the large ladies at work even made a comment to me the other week about having scrawny legs because the boots I had on did not fit tightly around my legs - they aren't scrawny just normal legs lol. I just laughed as I like her and find her really funny that she will just say whatever comes into her head. I would never dream of saying anything about her weight though.

So in reality I think it socially acceptable to mock slim people but not the other way


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Muze said:


> People certainly make comments to me.... fat uggo, sniggering, throw stuff at me on the bus


hugs....thats disgusting

I would be so ashamed if anybody I knew behaved like that.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> If the poster had responbded with "then *he* wonders why", I would agree with you. But the poster used "*they*" - ie extrapolating it to every overweight person and intimating that "*they*" were all oveweight because of this kind of inappropriate eating.


I assumed the poster meant the people appearing on the tv programme, I think its called Secret Eaters


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> Because most overweight people are not suffering from an illness, be it mental or physical.
> 
> My unhealthy relationship with food cannot be compared to someone who is bulimic or anorexic - it's just so simple - I consume more calories than my body burns off. For no other reason than I lack the strength of will to limit my calorie intake.
> 
> I'm not a bad person. I'm not lazy. I'm just not very good at controlling what I eat. That is a fact.


nah....some foods just taste sooooooo good.lol

I love cheese, always have done.....now at 53 I can feel things going south and my "smart ass" got a bit more round.lol


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Muze said:


> People certainly make comments to me.... fat uggo, sniggering, throw stuff at me on the bus


Thats disgusting and I am so sorry you experience that (I don't know why I feel I have to apologise but I do ). Does no one else on the bus try to help you?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> One person is born with a slow metabolsim (not their fault) and puts on weight. Their fault
> 
> One person is born with light coloured eyes (not their fault) and does not wear sunglasses. Their fault.
> 
> ...


First bit - we shall agree to disagree.

Second - you should not be sacked because it's ok to mock and discriminate against someone. However, if you could not do your job and the company could not afford to supply special equipment to enable you to do your job - what then?

If your job demanded that you move between departments, separated by several flights of stairs and you could not manage them and there was no lift - what then?

Companies generally exist to provide services or products with an intent to make a profit - they do not exist to provide people with jobs, per se.

No intelligent person thinks it is ok to mock somebody because of their weight, nor to discriminate against them either.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lizz1155 said:


> Actually, you asked "what's the difference", not "why is it acceptable to deride" - so I stand by my original answer
> 
> When resources are limited, apparently you've got to start looking at who would have the best outcomes to particular courses of treatment. Which is why overweight people are waaay down the transplant-priority list. :/ The outcomes are unacceptably low.


But you have still avoided answering the question of why any of that should cause overweight people to be derided.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> Police Scotland recently published a report on fitness levels of local Police. We don't see many Police officers round here anyway so I couldn't comment on their weight but something like 800 failed the test. some have left their jobs.
> 
> So many options in a Police force, I am sure alternatives could be found for the heavier ones and then weight issues addressed.


I doubt it - most police forces are laying off beat officers.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> *Because most overweight people are not suffering from an illness, be it mental or physical. *
> 
> My unhealthy relationship with food cannot be compared to someone who is bulimic or anorexic - it's just so simple - I consume more calories than my body burns off. For no other reason than I lack the strength of will to limit my calorie intake.
> 
> I'm not a bad person. I'm not lazy. I'm just not very good at controlling what I eat. That is a fact.


What are you basing this on exactly?

Im not going to argue that its not true, as it most likely is, however i object to 99.9% of overweight people being judged purely as greedy and lazy and those who are truly ill not getting the same level of support and compassion their underweight counterparts get.

It seems more socially acceptable to understand those who are underweight due to illness, but the idea that someone could be overweight due to illness is often scoffed at, and some would claim its an obese persons way of making an excuse.

I might not be getting my point across all that well.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Crap best go out and shoot myself now....

While I don't think it is a disability, I also don't like the way people judge and look down on over weight people.

So going my the chart posted, I would look ill being okay and I wasn't even that weight as a teenager...

Now on the chart I'm classed as obese, oh get me the fat, over eating, lazy git who must just eat 24/7 and just not care................... 

I've had major back surgery, it took me a long time to lose the 3 stone I put on then, excising with a knackered back ain't to easy but I did it.. Then I stopped smoking and drinking , and again I've put on 3 stone in a year and a half, so back up to obese again oh still with that knackered back, so right now I'm one of those obese people you judge as lazy and sitting stuffing their face 24/7....

So those that sit on their perfectly formed pert butts shouldn't be so quick to judge others because fortunes can quickly change and god forbid you get a fat saggy ass in a few years.... my ass ain't saggy btw, that'll be all the walking I do...................


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> But you have still avoided answering the question of why any of that should cause overweight people to be derided.


I never said it did?  I was only replying to what the difference was. Although I can see how it got misread.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Muze said:


> People certainly make comments to me.... fat uggo, sniggering, throw stuff at me on the bus


Well, some people are just pig ignorant. 

That's awful - no intelligent person would ever think that was acceptable.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> First bit - we shall agree to disagree.
> 
> Second - you should not be sacked because it's ok to mock and discriminate against someone. However, if you could not do your job and the company could not afford to supply special equipment to enable you to do your job - what then?
> 
> ...


Under the Equality Law 2010, employers have to accommodate a peson's disability wherever it is reasonably practicable to do so. The scenarios you posted above could be applied equally in the case of someone in a wheelchair. If it is reasonably practicable to make adjustments, then they should be made. If it is not, then they should not be made.

What overweight people are trying to do is have the same law apply to them.

I am overweight and have arthritis. I am ok climbing upstairs but find it difficult to walk downstairs. Why should the law not protect me at work in the same way that it would protect someone in a wheelcahir who, for example, lost their legs in a motorbike accident through careless driving?



Lurcherlad said:


> No intelligent person thinks it is ok to mock somebody because of their weight, nor to discriminate against them either.


Yet numerous examples abound.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> nah....some foods just taste sooooooo good.lol
> 
> I love cheese, always have done.....now at 53 I can feel things going south and my "smart ass" got a bit more round.lol


And, just to prove my point..........

This morning I had an egg sandwich and a coffee. Not too bad.

Lunch a small piece of quiche with mixed salad leaves, a teaspoon of light mayo. Followed by a yoghurt.

About half an hour ago I made a coffee AND WHILST IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS THREAD helped myself to 2 YES TWO!!!! macaroons, coated in chocolate :eek6:

I REST MY CASE!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

What am I like? 

No excuses here. They were yummy BTW


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I have to agree the comments on some of the threads about obesity and weight loss recently have been pretty cruel and inconsiderate about anyone who is overweight. I always tried to keep in mind during my nursing days to be non judgemental and fair to everyone whatever their reason for ending up in hospital and being thin or normal weight does not make anyone immune from cancer, heart disease/stroke etc etc. My mum for instance is very thin, 5ft 2 and about 7 stone yet has high cholesterol, high blood pressure, diabetes and has had several cancers. My Dad died aged 46 of bowel cancer yet was thin and active.

What happened to compassion and tolerance. Just stop and think next time you walk into a hospital do you want the doctors and nurses to be eyeing you up and down and making assumptions about how you must have brought your condition on yourself by eating the wrong things, drinking too much (the wine drinkers fly under the radar I find as thats socially acceptable and you are considered a bore if you don't indulge), exercising to extreme, doing dangerous sports, having sex with too many partners at an early age etc etc . I hope the next time I need the NHS I don't find myself being looked after by the judgemental brigade.

Now back to weight. When I got married I was a size 8, 7.5 stone at 5ft 6. Always a skinny child with ribs on show. Gradually in my 20's and 30's I found I started gaining weight and found it harder and harder to shift. Working night shifts as a nurse 7 on 7 off messed with my metabolism. By my 40's I had gone up to 13.5 stone not far off double my weight. I ate a healthy diet - no junk food (I don't like it) all wholemeal/brown bread/rice, 5-7portions of fruit & veg per day, mainly fish and chicken. I've always been active - used to horse ride every day and muck out/look after horses plus dog walk. I had personal trainers and nutritionist flogging me to exhaustion and reducing my calories time and time again because it didn't work. I have lost my weight now and am considered normal weight for height but I was never lazy, never stuffed my face with junk food or pies. Its very easy to sit in judgement about why other people are overweight but it costs nothing to show some kindness and understanding and support. 

I don't think discrimination is right whether its because of sex, race, sexuality or size. I don't think obesity as such should be classed as a disability but if the person has disability because of it then I don't see any reason why they should not be classed as disabled just like the kids who have broken their backs diving into shallow water.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Nonnie said:


> What are you basing this on exactly?
> 
> Im not going to argue that its not true, as it most likely is, however i object to 99.9% of overweight people being judged purely as greedy and lazy and those who are truly ill not getting the same level of support and compassion their underweight counterparts get.
> 
> ...


Nothing scientific or statistical, I'm afraid 

Just my guesstimate.

If someone is overweight due to illness they should be treated the same as someone who is underweight due to illness.

I also know that my arthritic knees would benefit from me dropping 3 stone. I also suspect that if I went to the doc and asked for a knee replacement (not required BTW) I would be told to lose weight. Not because the doctor was being mean and thought I was a fat, lazy slob (hopefully ) but because it's a known fact that the outcome would be much better if I were lighter.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Why is it acceptable to deride pople with a slow metabolism and not people with a fast metabolism?


It isnt acceptable to deride either really, but both types do still get derided. The difference isnt in acceptability but how they actually react to derision.

as a person with fast metabolism, classic hard gainer, i can tell you that many people dont think twice about mentioning my weight (i'd say its a lot more socially acceptable than mentioning a fat persons weight), and i dont really see that much difference between telling someone they need feeding up or telling someone to eat less.

Really i think the main difference is perception - if someone says to me "you're thin" i dont take that as an insult, i take it as an observation, but if you say "you're fat" to a fat person many would find it insulting.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Meezey said:


> So those that sit on their perfectly formed pert butts shouldn't be so quick to judge others because fortunes can quickly change and god forbid you get a fat saggy ass in a few years.... my ass ain't saggy btw, that'll be all the walking I do...................


I rest my case M'Lord - mocking those of the pert butts 

On a serious note, how do you know they are not thin because of something dreadful in their lives not everyone comfort eats some go the other way


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Actually, looking at the guidance on page 8 of the Equality Act 2010, it would seem that obesity IS classed as a disability:

Equality Act 2010
Guidance
www.odi.gov.uk/equalityact

"_A8.
It is not necessary to consider how an impairment is caused, even
if the cause is a consequence of a condition which is excluded. For
example, liver disease as a result of alcohol dependency would count
as an impairment, although an addiction to alcohol itself is expressly
excluded from the scope of the definition of disability in the Act. What
it is important to consider is the effect of an impairment not its cause -
provided that it is not an excluded condition_"

and these are the examples of someone who would be classed as disabled they give on page 9:

"_Equality Act 2010
Guidance
www.odi.gov.uk/equalityact
9
A woman has obesity which gives rise to impairments such as
mobility restrictions and breathing difficulties. She is unable to walk
more than 50 yards without having to rest.
A man has borderline moderate learning difficulties which have an
adverse impact on his short-term memory and his levels of literacy
and numeracy. For example, he cannot write any original material,
as opposed to slowly copying existing text, and he cannot write his
address from memory.
It is the effects of these impairments that need to be considered,
rather than the underlying conditions themselvest._"

So, Lurcherlad - it looks as though employers would have to consider the needs of an obese person in the same way as they would the needs of someone in a wheelchair. Very interesting!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Meezey said:


> Crap best go out and shoot myself now....
> 
> While I don't think it is a disability, I also don't like the way people judge and look down on over weight people.
> 
> ...


Exactly - one of the personal trainers I mentioned in my earlier post was lovely and slim but when I bumped into her about a year after I had stopped working with her she had piled on a lot of weight as injury then surgery had prevented her from exercising all day every day. It can happen to anyone.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

rona said:


> I don't think anyone would say anything to larger people these days because it's becoming the norm. It's not even noticed unless it's extreme


Oh believe me, people do say stuff to us larger people. I've been told it's my own fault I'm diabetic. Been told I shouldn't be eating this, that or the other because I'm fat. Had snide comments made such as "shoot me if I ever get that big" sort of behind my back but purposely loud enough that I can hear them.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> Actually, looking at the guidance on page 8 the Equality Act 2010, it would seem that obesity IS classed as a disability:
> 
> Equality Act 2010
> Guidance
> ...


Why are we even discussing it then? Slaps forehead - slinks off to the kitchen to get another macaroon :lol::lol::lol:

I'm out :thumbsup:


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Muze said:


> People certainly make comments to me.... fat uggo, sniggering, throw stuff at me on the bus


Yup. This. Don't believe people won't say or do something to an overweight person. I've also been made to feel extremely uncomfortable when eating out because of my weight.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> I rest my case M'Lord - mocking those of the pert butts
> 
> On a serious note, how do you know they are not thin because of something dreadful in their lives not everyone comfort eats some go the other way


I'm not talking about thin people though  I tend to find those who deride fat people are those who work to be slim because they can go to the gym and live on a lettuce leaf. I wouldn't mock anyone about their size I have a friend who hate the fact she is so slim and risks her health trying to put on weight junk food etc...

I am might considered obese on some chart but I still have a pert butt


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> If someone is overweight due to illness they should be treated the same as someone who is underweight due to illness.


But they aren't.

If you go to a GP and say you are struggling with weight gain, the first thing they mention is cutting out junk food and exercising more.

If you say you already exercise and eat well, the vast majority of doctors will accuse you of lying..

If an underweight person does the same thing, they get sent off for a battery of tests, not just told to eat more.

Its double standards.

OBVIOUSLY not in every case, but as a generalisation, before those 'well i know someone' lot jump up and down in frustration.

Its far harder to be taken seriously and _believed_ when one is overweight, than when one is underweight.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I do not class obesity as a disability in itself - that is ridiculous - BUT I am certain the vast majority of obese folk would rather not be obese and there must be reasons why they have become so.

The simple equation *is * usually eat less and exercise more but there may be many reasons, both physical and psychological, why that may not happen. And then, once obese, I have found that people do not want to exercise as they find the gym / pool / being seen out starting to run intimidating. I have food "ishoos"  which I wish I didn't have - I am not obese, I am a perfectly healthy weight, BUT I can understand how embroiled in emotions food can become and how controlling it or compulsively eating begins to rule your life.

I think it's time that the whole culture of "bad food", "good food" and fad miracle diets was stopped and time that "celebrities" in magazines stop getting a good few stone taken off their weights - when you see for example Vanessa Feltz saying she is happy at her size 12 when you can see for a fact she is much larger it sends the message that it is somehow shameful to be larger. I even saw an advert for gastric bands on the TV last night . It's also time that the ridiculous sized portions that seem to have crept in are cut. I remember going to the US for the first time years ago and being totally gobsmacked by the portion sizes there - but they have crept in here.

The point of this ramble really is that people are people, we all have our problems and we all (most of us!!) indulge in some risk taking behaviour that may require the attention of the NHS at some point. And we all also know what it feels like to get stuck in a rut.

I am doing a CPD module with my Level 3 PT on obesity, plus GP referral. I think as soon as we are more understanding and encouraging of the obese and make the whole world of exercise less intimidating the better. Some sports brands for example a size 10 is a "large" which is ridiculous and goes nowhere in encouraging folk to get out there.

The culture of shaming the obese is a really strange one; it isn't something that can be hidden obviously and I can only guess the strength it must take for some people to go to certain places.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Fast/slow metabolism has been mentioned a few times - this is from the NHS website

How can I speed up my metabolism to lose weight? - NHS Choices

Sometimes even the most intelligent people don't seem to have a clue about diet. My boss for example exercises constantly - gym with a personal trainer twice a week, plays squash every day (racket ball now I think as he keeps doing his back in) goes on massive bike rides. Sure all that exercise makes him eat more!

He eats healthy stuff generally but he doesn't lose weight because of the amounts he eats. EG if you have a meal out and they bring a basket of bread he would eat the lot and ask for more. I never have pasta meals at a restaurant as I find the amount they give you just huge and it looks as though I haven't eaten anything, he would scoff the lot in record time (never seen anyone eat so fast either).

For a clever bloke he can't grasp why you could eat a great big plate of salad yet a small cream cake could have tons more calories


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Regarding having people say nasty things to you, people can say nasty things if your under sized, over sized, disabled, look different in some way etc etc.
People sadly can be really nasty, I have dealt with horrible comments time and time again ......... It's not right regardless of the reason they are having a go is the persons fault or not, but it happens.

Regarding jobs, for as long as you are not applying for something inappropriate or for as long as the needs you have mean the changes are do-able, then you should not be turned away from a job, but if the changes are not do-able (i.e. a chair that would hold an obese person can not be bought for whatever reason, or a lift would need to be put in for a disabled person but there is no room or you do not get permission to put one in or the costs are too high) then due to health and safety or whatever you can not do the job, it's as simple as that.


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Nonnie said:


> But they aren't.
> 
> If you go to a GP and say you are struggling with weight gain, the first thing they mention is cutting out junk food and exercising more.
> 
> ...


I agree that it's a double-standard, but I would suspect that's because "unexplained weightloss" is a prime indicator that there's some sort of unpleasant disease afoot, such as undiagnosed cancer. It's not necessarily that doctors are being deliberately unhelpful.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Lizz1155 said:


> I agree that it's a double-standard, but I would suspect that's because "unexplained weightloss" is a prime indicator that there's some sort of unpleasant disease afoot, such as undiagnosed cancer. It's not necessarily that doctors are being deliberately unhelpful.


But unexplained weight / size gain can also be a red flag for many conditions too.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> But they aren't.
> 
> If you go to a GP and say you are struggling with weight gain, the first thing they mention is cutting out junk food and exercising more.
> 
> If you say you already exercise and eat well, the vast majority of doctors will accuse you of lying..


This. I had to really fight to get tests done to see whether there was any reason I wasn't losing weight, I was basically made out to be a lazy, greedy sh*t by the doctors, all I needed to do was consume fewer calories than I burned and the weight would come off. Simple right? Well it wasn't bloody working. But even the dietician made out that I was lying, that I was simply eating the wrong things or too much and lying about it.

Only thing picked up was diabetes. And oddly enough, since being medicated for it and getting it under control the weight has started to drop off. I've lost 30lbs since being diagnosed last year. 40lbs since coming off the meds almost 4 years ago. It took me 3 years to lose just 10lbs.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Lizz1155 said:


> I agree that it's a double-standard, but I would suspect that's because "unexplained weightloss" is a prime indicator that there's some sort of unpleasant disease afoot, such as undiagnosed cancer. It's not necessarily that doctors are being deliberately unhelpful.


Doctors are victims of snap judgement the same as everyone else.

Im sure people do go in and lie about diet and exercise, but it should never be assumed thats the case with every patient.

Who knows what illnesses go undiagnosed and untreated due to ignorance.

Its sad that someones outer appearance affects how seriously they get taken, and what treatment they receive.


Dogless said:


> But unexplained weight / size gain can also be a red flag for many conditions too.


What Dogless said.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Doctors and dietitians can think you are lying when you go to them about reduced weight too.


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Dogless said:


> But unexplained weight / size gain can also be a red flag for many conditions too.


Indeed  However (although frankly I might just be talking out of my @rse from this point), wouldn't a condition which causes unexplained fat* gain be less likely to be fatal than something which caused unexplained wasting?

Obviously both are worth investigating, but doctors tend to put a lot of effort into investigating things which could feasibly have a fatal diagnoses, just so they don't get sued.

* sorry to use that word since I know most people don't like it, but I wanted to rule out the conditions which cause fluid retention or tissue growths without weightloss. So using "weight" wasn't an option.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Animallover26 said:


> Doctors and dietitians can think you are lying when you go to them about reduced weight too.


Of course. Doctors can believe a patient is lying about all manner of things.

But you'd be hard pressed to find a GP willing to conduct any form of test on an overweight person without first telling them to diet and exercise and to only go back if things dont improve.

Fatties have to fight for these things


----------



## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Nonnie said:


> Of course. Doctors can believe a patient is lying about all manner of things.
> 
> But you'd be hard pressed to find a GP willing to conduct any form of test on an overweight person without first telling them to diet and exercise and to only go back if things dont improve.
> 
> Fatties have to fight for these things


I've had to fight for tests due to loosing weight, so both sides have to fight sometimes.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Lizz1155 said:


> Indeed  However (although frankly I might just be talking out of my @rse from this point), wouldn't a condition which causes unexplained fat* gain be less likely to be fatal than something which caused unexplained wasting?
> 
> Obviously both are worth investigating, but doctors tend to put a lot of effort into investigating things which could feasibly have a fatal diagnoses, just so they don't get sued.
> 
> * sorry to use that word since I know most people don't like it, but I wanted to rule out the conditions which cause fluid retention or tissue growths without weightloss. So using "weight" wasn't an option.


Well the tumours that have killed one of my friends and almost killed both my MIL and mother were pretty likely to be fatal . My mother and my friend had to really, really push for tests as they looked healthy. Too late for my friend, luckily just in time for my mother (touch wood) and my MIL ended up on ICU for weeks but is now (touch wood again!!) also in remission.

Having been a nurse for a fair few years I must admit you can generally tell those who are lying to you (having run obesity clinics for a while) and those who are not.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Crap best go out and shoot myself now....
> 
> While I don't think it is a disability, I also don't like the way people judge and look down on over weight people.
> 
> ...


No you aren't. You are disabled but not because of your weight. Your weight is because of a disability.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> This. I had to really fight to get tests done to see whether there was any reason I wasn't losing weight, I was basically made out to be a lazy, greedy sh*t by the doctors, all I needed to do was consume fewer calories than I burned and the weight would come off. Simple right? Well it wasn't bloody working. But even the dietician made out that I was lying, that I was simply eating the wrong things or too much and lying about it.
> 
> Only thing picked up was diabetes. And oddly enough, since being medicated for it and getting it under control the weight has started to drop off. I've lost 30lbs since being diagnosed last year. 40lbs since coming off the meds almost 4 years ago. It took me 3 years to lose just 10lbs.


I personally believe that insuln is involved in this issue to a far greater extent than we currently understand.


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

More like self harming.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Of course. Doctors can believe a patient is lying about all manner of things.
> 
> But you'd be hard pressed to find a GP willing to conduct any form of test on an overweight person without first telling them to diet and exercise and to only go back if things dont improve.
> 
> Fatties have to fight for these things


I think you have to fight with your GP to get anything done these days no matter who you are.

I was losing blood and I wasn't taken seriously


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

rona said:


> I think you have to fight with your GP to get anything done these days no matter who you are.
> 
> I was losing blood and I wasn't taken seriously


'Liked' because of the first sentence - not the last.


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

As I see it he was dismissed as he was unable to do his job not because he was fat. Being fat was the reason he couldn't do his job but not why he was dismissed. 
I was in Morrisons one day and a very very large chap who lived locally was having his shoe laces tied by his five year old grand-daughter. A few days later it was front page news that he had had a heart attack and died. He was only in his early fifties.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

rona said:


> I think you have to fight with your GP to get anything done these days no matter who you are.
> 
> I was losing blood and I wasn't taken seriously


It really is a sad state of affairs when people are dismissed so easily by medical professionals.

Have read of a few cases lately that despite having numerous appointments, people have died, or had serious illness misdianosed, or not diagnosed at all.

One women was told she had IBS, when in fact she had bowel cancer which is now terminal.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lizz1155 said:


> Indeed  However (although frankly I might just be talking out of my @rse from this point), wouldn't a condition which causes unexplained fat* gain be less likely to be fatal than something which caused unexplained wasting?


Not at all. Someone who presents with weight gain could be suffering from diabetes or hypothyroidism, to pick two of the most likely causes. Untreated diabetes can lead to kidney failure and death. Untreated hypothyroidism can lead to myxodema and death. Death is pretty fatal


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> It really is a sad state of affairs when people are dismissed so easily by medical professionals.
> 
> Have read of a few cases lately that despite having numerous appointments, people have died, or had serious illness misdianosed, or not diagnosed at all.
> 
> One women was told she had IBS, when in fact she had bowel cancer which is now terminal.


That was my uncle a few years ago. Doctor kept sending him away as a nuisance 
Long dead now, cancer was so well advanced by the time it was diagnosed.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I personally believe that insuln is involved in this issue to a far greater extent than we currently understand.


There's some belief that insulin resistance is a factor in weight gain and being unable to lose weight. But they can't seem to say which comes first, the insulin resistance causing the gain or the gain causing the resistance. Either way, I started losing weight as soon as my diabetes was gotten under control. It's stopped coming off when insulin levels have needed to be adjusted again (needed less and less as the weight came off and am almost completely off it now) and started again once back under control. so personally I think yes insulin is involved, to some extent at least. Either that or it's a huge coincidence for me lol.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> There's some belief that insulin resistance is a factor in weight gain and being unable to lose weight. But they can't seem to say which comes first, the insulin resistance causing the gain or the gain causing the resistance. Either way, I started losing weight as soon as my diabetes was gotten under control. It's stopped coming off when insulin levels have needed to be adjusted again (needed less and less as the weight came off and am almost completely off it now) and started again once back under control. so personally I think yes insulin is involved, to some extent at least. Either that or it's a huge coincidence for me lol.


The only way I managed to lose my weight was doing a lowish carb diet so keeping my insulin levels stable. I think in the next few years we will see great advances made in this respect and then this whole discussion might be turned on its head.


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

I think this is a disgrace! I am disabled and I hate that something that is self inflicted in most cases is likely to be classed as a disability.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Mundane said:


> I think this is a disgrace! I am disabled and I hate that something that is self inflicted in most cases is likely to be classed as a disability.


Even if you were right in saying that obesity is self-inflicted, the classification of disability does not depend upon the cause; it dpends upon the effect. If someone drove a motorbike recklessly, had an accident, and had to have both legs amputated, wuold you think classing him as disabled would be a disgrace? It would, after all, be as self-inflicted as you think obesity is.


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

Spellweaver said:


> Even if you were right in saying that obesity is self-inflicted, the classification of disability does not depend upon the cause; it dpends upon the effect. If someone drove a motorbike recklessly, had an accident, and had to have both legs amputated, wuold you think classing him as disabled would be a disgrace? It would, after all, be as self-inflicted as you think obesity is.


I can see what you are saying but having an accident is exactly that an accident, you don't accidently become obese. I can see your point of view though.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Mundane said:


> I can see what you are saying but having an accident is exactly that an accident, you don't accidently become obese. I can see your point of view though.


People don't intentionally become obese either.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Mundane said:


> I can see what you are saying but having an accident is exactly that an accident, you don't accidently become obese. I can see your point of view though.


I am overweight and have arthritis. I am classed as disabled. I didn't become overweight on purpose - I didn't wake up one moring and think, "yeah, I'll get fat", any more than the bike rider would wake up and think "yeah, I'll crash my bike". I see no difference in my case to the bike rider's case.

Thankfully, the Equality Act 2010 does state that disability should be judged on the actual disbility and not on the underlying cause, so the bike rider and I are both catered for in law exactly the same as anyone else with a disability


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> People don't intentionally become obese either.


But there is a choice in a lot of cases. An accident is an unexpected incident


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

I think unless you walk in the other persons shoes who are we to judge?

None of us are perfect...no one lives a guilt free life. We either drink too much, eat too much, smoke too much, do dangerous things...at some stage of our life's we will all require some sort of medical assistance.

So before we look at others perhaps we should look at ourselves. 

(This is not directed at anyone on here btw just my thoughts!)


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

Spellweaver said:


> I am overweight and have arthritis. I am classed as disabled. I didn't become overweight on purpose - I didn't wake up one moring and think, "yeah, I'll get fat", any more than the bike rider would wake up and think "yeah, I'll crash my bike". I see no difference in my case to the bike rider's case.
> 
> Thankfully, the Equality Act 2010 does state that disability should be judged on the actual disbility and not on the underlying cause, so the bike rider and I are both catered for in law exactly the same as anyone else with a disability


I hope this is not too personal a question and feel free not to answer but are you over weight because you have arthritis? I know I am, I was quote active till it hit.



rona said:


> But there is a choice in a lot of cases. An accident is an unexpected incident


Yes this is what I was trying to say.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> But there is a choice in a lot of cases. An accident is an unexpected incident


I would say it's very rare a person makes the choice to be obese. When someone gets over weight to the point where it could seriously affect their health and life expectancy it's very rarely done by choice. Some underlying mental health / long term condition / gene / health problem is a contributing factor. I think you will find it very difficult to find an obese person that decided to become obese.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

How mentally healthy they are is debatable but you have heard of the whole feeder thing right? People deliberately gaining weight, google it and you'll find probably hundreds. There's a difference between someone having an illness or disability that stops them exercising or makes them gain weight and someone just being lazy


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> I would say it's very rare a person makes the choice to be obese. When someone gets over weight to the point where it could seriously affect their health ans life expectancy it's very rarely done by choice. Some underlying mental health / long term condition / gene / health problem is a contributing factor. I think you will find it very difficult to find an obsession person that decided to become obese.


They may well not make the choice to become obese but they do however make the choice to eat and eat and do little exercise (I am talking about the ones who can do some exercise not the people who have health problems) and they do make the choice more often than not to eat the wrong things.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

rona said:


> But there is a choice in a lot of cases. An accident is an unexpected incident


Not if they are driving dangerously it's not - which was the scenario I gave. Someone who is driving dangerously causes an accident equally as much as someone causes themself to be overweight.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Mundane said:


> I can see what you are saying but having an accident is exactly that an accident, you don't accidently become obese. I can see your point of view though.


And I didn't choose to become obese, it was an unfortunate side effect of medication to control seizures. Nothing self inflicted about it. I know someone who is classed as disabled having lost 3 of his limbs train surfing. Am I really less deserving than someone who became disabled through sheer stupidity? Just because I'm fat?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Well, when I was at school, we were NOT ALLOWED to eat in the street, and there was trouble if you did. I recall an ice-cream vendor parking his van at the school gates hoping for custom.. He got none at all as the headmaster strutted down the path (complete with academic black gown) and escorted him and his van off the premises. Actually, he looked like Dracula.

But now, everywhere you look, people are stuffing their faces 24/7 with takeaway. I had the misfortune to travel by bus a couple of days ago and I had the girl behind me ramming a McDonald's cheeseburger and chips (sorry - FRIES) into her mouth and the one on the seat in front stuffing something equally flavoursome, aromatic and nutritious into his mouth. I am convinced that because of all the instant food outlets (takeaways if you prefer) few people can travel from A to B without thinking that they NEED food. In fact, on the same bus, I was totally gobsmacked to see that a mother with a baby in buggy travelling only *three* stops found it necessary to change its nappy on board, if you can believe it. And that was in the rush hour. OK if you are flying to Berlin, you really might have to....Food is there and many of them HAVE to eat it; some, of course, are fat for medical reasons, others are the direct result of advertising.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> How mentally healthy they are is debatable but you have heard of the whole feeder thing right? People deliberately gaining weight, google it and you'll find probably hundreds. There's a difference between someone having an illness or disability that stops them exercising or makes them gain weight and someone just being lazy


Google enough and you'll find plenty of people saying staffies are dangerous dogs. Doesn't make it true, and it doesn't mean that the few they show slavering, growling and straining at the leash mean all stafies are like that. Whatever this feeder thing is, don't judge all overweight people - and the aptness of disability legislation pertaining to overweight people - by it.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Spellweaver said:


> Google enough and you'll find plenty of people saying staffies are dangerous dogs. Doesn't make it true, and it doesn't mean that the few they show slavering, growling and straining at the leash mean all stafies are like that. Whatever this feeder thing is, don't judge all overweight people - and the aptness of disability legislation pertaining to overweight people - by it.


I wasn't saying all fat people are deliberately gaining weight :confused1: just that there's a whole subculture that deliberately try to.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Mundane said:


> They may well not make the choice to become obese but they do however make the choice to eat and eat and do little exercise (I am talking about the ones who can do some exercise not the people who have health problems) and they do make the choice more often than not to eat the wrong things.


But how much of the over eating is a choice and how much is an addiction to food? What I am trying to say is that just because someone is obese and with out a physical disability that does not mean that it was by choice. Often some mental health, depression and comfort eating are involved. As I said before I think you will find very few people that are morbidly obese are happy with their weight and would choose to be that way in all honesty. People need to recognise its not always self inflicted, it's often a cycle that very difficult to break like many addictions Obviously a few are lazy and happy with their life style but they would definitely be the minority.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> I would say it's very rare a person makes the choice to be obese. When someone gets over weight to the point where it could seriously affect their health and life expectancy it's very rarely done by choice. Some underlying mental health / long term condition / gene / health problem is a contributing factor. I think you will find it very difficult to find an obese person that decided to become obese.


Odd how hardly anyone was obese at the time my father was.

You mean 25% of the people in this country are now obese because of some outside influence and nothing to do with their own choices?

I don't think so.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> But how much of the over eating is a choice and how much is an addiction to food? What I am trying to say is that just because someone is obese and with out a physical disability that does not mean that it was by choice. Often some mental health, depression and comfort eating are involved. As I said before I think you will find very few people that are morbidly obese are happy with their weight and would choose to be that way in all honesty. People need to recognise its not always self inflicted, it's often a cycle that very difficult to break like many addictions Obviously a few are lazy and happy with their life style but they would definitely be the minority.


"Addiction" to food must be a recent phenomena then because once upon a time there would not have been enough food to go around in order to be "addicted" to it. Which surely reverts right back to the lifestyle of many people these days.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> Odd how hardly anyone was obese at the time my father was.
> 
> You mean 25% of the people in this country are now obese because of some outside influence and nothing to do with their own choices?
> 
> I don't think so.


I know you don't want to believe it but it's true. Your father was from a generation when food was different. Thanks to foods like fructose, takeaway and convenience food people find themselves addicted to high fat foods. also mental health problems have become more prevalent in recent times which adds to obesity and the fact we are less active as a society is the cherry on the cake. I'm not plucking random excuses I'm going on facts and I genuinely feel sorry for people who are morbidly obese, not only do they have to battle their weight and related conditions they have to listen to peoples opinion regarding their weight too


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Obesity isn't a new thing it was just generally confined to the nobility/royalty who actually had enough food to eat and didn't have to work to earn it. There are cases of some very large people Henry the 8th for example


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

We don't see fat wild animals. There are no fat lions because, they only eat when they need to.

A lion isn't going to think "Oh, I'm a bit peckish, I'll just kill a rabbit to put me on to the next antelope".

The fact is many people eat a lot more than their body actually needs.

A year ago, I had to have radiotherapy every day for twenty days. The waiting area at the hospital was centred around a café and I was actually shocked at the way the majority of the people waiting behaved. Not a few of them, the majority of them.

The food was nice and very cheap, but, most of them just ate and ate and drunk endless cups of coffee.

This was mid morning, so what they were eating wasn't breakfast or lunch. They were buying toast, sandwiches, chocolate biscuits, crisps, etc.

It was as though they felt if there was food available, they HAD to eat it.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

labradrk said:


> "Addiction" to food must be a recent phenomena then because once upon a time there would not have been enough food to go around in order to be "addicted" to it. Which surely reverts right back to the lifestyle of many people these days.


Look up thrifty genotypes. It explains that due to genes some people store fat more than other and this is related to when less food was around


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> I know you don't want to believe it but it's true. Your father was from a generation when food was different. Thanks to foods like fructose, takeaway and convenience food people find themselves addicted to high fat foods. also mental health problems have become more prevalent in recent times which adds to obesity and the fact we are less active as a society is the cherry on the cake. I'm not plucking random excuses I'm going on facts and I genuinely feel sorry for people who are morbidly obese, not only do they have to battle their weight and related conditions they have to listen to peoples opinion regarding their weight too


So what you are saying is that the prevalence of obesity is indeed down to lifestyle choices?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> I know you don't want to believe it but it's true. Your father was from a generation when food was different. Thanks to foods like fructose, takeaway and convenience food people find themselves addicted to high fat foods. also mental health problems have become more prevalent in recent times which adds to obesity and the fact we are less active as a society is the cherry on the cake. I'm not plucking random excuses I'm going on facts and I genuinely feel sorry for people who are morbidly obese, not only do they have to battle their weight and related conditions they have to listen to peoples opinion regarding their weight too


Yes, it is true that there are different foods available now, but surely the point is, we don't have to eat them.

As for mental health problems being more prevalent now, I'm not sure about that. I think it's that mental health problems are more recognised now.

Surely the generation who lived through a war, particularly those men who fought, in the trenches and watched their friends being shot and dying beside them and then returning home, (if they were lucky), to high unemployment and poverty were depressed?

It just wasn't recognised in those days.


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Sweety said:


> We don't see fat wild animals.


Don't hippo's count? Maybe a walrus?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Lizz1155 said:


> Don't hippo's count? Maybe a walrus?


Hippos only have a very thin layer of fat, they are a desert species after all, it's mostly guts apparently. Many whales have thick layers of blubber though and just google leopard seals.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Lizz1155 said:


> Don't hippo's count? Maybe a walrus?


I think you know what I mean.

Actually, walruses build up fat reserves to protect them from the Arctic cold.

I think we can take it for granted that they haven't been snacking on pizza and MacDonald's burgers.

They do have fat reserves, but they're not unhealthy.


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> And I didn't choose to become obese, it was an unfortunate side effect of medication to control seizures. Nothing self inflicted about it. I know someone who is classed as disabled having lost 3 of his limbs train surfing. Am I really less deserving than someone who became disabled through sheer stupidity? Just because I'm fat?


I did say that it is not self inflicted in all cases.



rona said:


> Odd how hardly anyone was obese at the time my father was.
> 
> You mean 25% of the people in this country are now obese because of some outside influence and nothing to do with their own choices?
> 
> I don't think so.


I do think in some cases there is a medical problem or a mental health problem but I do think that accounts for a small portion of obese people. I am not sure I agree with the "fat" gene though.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

The dietary factors are: (1) diet high in refined, processed carbohydrates,
(2) diet high in bad fats, (3) diet low in fiber, and (4) diet low in
antioxidants and high in oxidants. The problematic life behavioral
patterns are: (1) overly rapid eating, (2) eating in the presence of
stress, especially chronic stress, (3) sleep deprivation, (4) lack of
exercise, and (5) high exposure to toxins that cause an overloaded
detoxification system

With regard to behavior patterns, Hyman (2006, 110-18) explains
that eating quickly and sleep deprivation in
the presence of chronic moderate to high stress cause one's body
to release into the bloodstream a hormone called cortisol, which
sets off a number of physiological responses, including becoming
less sensitive to the hormone that tells your brain when you are
full. This is one important pathway from stress to weight gain.
The same thing happens to animals such as lab rats, which, when
exposed to stress, "ate less, exercised more and
gained
weight . . .
from stress alone!"

suppliers of processed food; socioeconomic factors contributing
to chronic stress in individuals; and the advice about eating and
behavior from health professionals. The essence of the argument is
that obesity tends to occur when vulnerable individuals who have
low personal capital, low social capital, low health capital, and genes
predisposing them to obesity encounter stressful situations, lower
prices of unhealthy food and higher prices of exercise, poor advice
from health practitioners, and the large and growing infrastructure
of obesity.

http://mesharpe.metapress.com/app/h...al,18,81;linkingpublicationresults,1:106043,1 interesting factual article if anyone is interested


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Mundane said:


> I do think in some cases there is a medical problem or a mental health problem but I do think that accounts for a small portion of obese people. I am not sure I agree with the "fat" gene though.


review using the 2005 version of the
human obesity gene map.

It revealed that there are 127
genes with at least one positive association with some
phenotypes relevant to obesity. Among them, 22 are
supported by at least five positive studies. The latter genes
are ACE, ADIPOQ, ADRB2, ADRB3, DRD2, GNB3, HTR2C,
IL6, INS, LDLR, LEP, LEPR, LIPE, MC4R, NR3C1, PPARG,
RETN, TNFA, UCP1, UCP2, UCP3 and VDR. When one aligns
these genes against biological or behavioral traits that may
favor sustained positive energy balance, five major classes of
genotypes tend to emerge. These are
(1) a thrifty genotype: low metabolic rate and insufficient
thermogenesis;
(2) a hyperphagic genotype: poor regulation of appetite and
satiety and propensity to overfeed;
(3) a sedens genotype: propensity to be couch potato or
physically inactive;
(4) a low lipid oxidation genotype: propensity to be a low
lipid oxidizer; and
(5) an adipogenesis genotype: ability to expand comple-
ment of adipocytes and high lipid storage capacity


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

My mum is 74 and the youngest of 6 children. Food when she was a child was plain. If my gran was short of money, it would be mashed carrots swede and potatoes with a gravy. They had a pen and kept rabbits and chickens and my granny cooked whatever she had got every day.Milk was delivered daily by horse and cart. If you had no money, you had no milk.

At tea time, everybody got a mug of tea with their food....anything else was a glass of water. No fruit juices, no pop, no cordial.

There was a chippy down the road...my granny always used to have a portion of butter beans...nothing else, just that and it was a treat.

My granny always used to have 2 slices of milk roll bread and blackcurrant jam...no butter.

No washing machines, so much heavy manual work. No cars, so everybody walked everywhere. TV....my mums house did have one but only very few programmes on . Instead, sunday night after bath time everybody listened to the radio til bed time.

I think a lot of the problem with eating the wrong foods and not necessarily over eating is we have been brain washed by the media into thinking that eating all the stuff we have today is good for us. My granny lived to be 91.

When I was at school, we had meat and 2 veg stuff, pudding and then drank water and then walked home from school.


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

I think part of the problem is everything is done for us these days everything can be done online, kids are being driven to school and not walking like when I was a child, food shopping can be done in the comfort of your own home, bills paid even banking can be done online or over the phone now so you do not even have to leave the house if you do not want to.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> My mum is 74 and the youngest of 6 children. Food when she was a child was plain. If my gran was short of money, it would be mashed carrots swede and potatoes with a gravy. They had a pen and kept rabbits and chickens and my granny cooked whatever she had got every day.Milk was delivered daily by horse and cart. If you had no money, you had no milk.
> 
> At tea time, everybody got a mug of tea with their food....anything else was a glass of water. No fruit juices, no pop, no cordial.
> 
> ...


What she said.

What can't speak can't lie. I grew up in the 50's and 60's and there were no fat kids and fat adults were pretty rare.

We ate at mealtimes, drank tea made in one big pot, or water. We didn't eat between meals because there was nothing.

We played out because there was no TV through the day or any game consoles.

We walked everywhere, there was no other option.

I can't believe that metabolic issues are a thing of modern times. People are people. Times may change and eating habits have clearly changed.

Two thirds of Americans are now officially overweight/obese and they do accept it's because of the number of fast food outlets. It's easy and probably cheap for them not to bother cooking.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> review using the 2005 version of the
> human obesity gene map.
> 
> It revealed that there are 127
> ...


These genes have always been there, they aren't new and they aren't the reason for the huge increase in obesity. That's junk food, lack of exercise and eating too much food


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> These genes having always been there, they aren't new and they aren't the reason for the huge increase in obesity. That's junk food, lack of exercise and eating too much food


Did you see my previous post?
This post was in relation to the person I quoted saying genes are nothing to do with fat....... Genes are to do with everything!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> Did you see my previous post?
> This post was in relation to the person I quoted saying genes are nothing to do with fat....... Genes are to do with everything!


Seriously, can obesity only be a modern phenomenon?

Is it really just coincidence that fast, ready made junk food is so easily available now, whereas it wasn't fifty years ago and obesity is on the increase?

I don't doubt there are some with medical issues linked to obesity, but they're very much the minority.

The fact is, if you consume more calories than you burn off, you'll gain weight.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> Did you see my previous post?
> This post was in relation to the person I quoted saying genes are nothing to do with fat....... Genes are to do with everything!


Yes but again, don't you think those generations that went before had stress?

Some have very genuine reasons and for those people I am very sorry. I know how much my father struggled with his health.

However, we can make many excuses, but it still boils down to the same reasons in the majority of cases


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Seriously, can obesity only be a modern phenomenon?
> 
> Is it really just coincidence that fast, ready made junk food is so easily available now, whereas it wasn't fifty years ago and obesity is on the increase?
> 
> ...


Your right the more calories you eat the more you have to burn off. What i am saying is for lots of reasons people dont burn them off and thanks to cheap, takeaway sugar filled food people get obese and quick. Food can be like an addiction and losing weight isnt as easy as some people think. Being overweight is hard but to get morbidly obese to the point of having health complication and lower life expectancy and being unable to do anything about it and depressed by it is not normal, and not by choice.
It a cycle, an addiction.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sweety said:


> This was mid morning, so what they were eating wasn't breakfast or lunch. They were buying toast, sandwiches, chocolate biscuits, crisps, etc.
> 
> It was as though they felt if there was food available, they HAD to eat it.


That's pretty judgemental actually. Whenever I had a morning hospital appointment I'd head over to the cafe after it and have a couple of slices of toast and a cup of tea there. Sometimes I'd have a couple of biscuits too. And despite it being mid morning or later that would be my breakfast/lunch as I didn't eat before I left home. You have no idea whether these people have eaten anything before getting to the hospital, you're just assuming they're eating simply because food is available.

Growing up I ate my meals. Reasonably healthy meals at that. I didn't snack between them because we couldn't afford to keep things like biscuits, crisps etc in. I had a piece of cake every Sunday at my grandmas, hardly excessive. I played out. I walked everywhere. I played chase, hopscotch, skipped etc at school at break times. I played out on my bike most evenings after school until it got dark. I was still a fat child. We all led the same life yet my brothers were skinny, my cousins were skinny, I was fat. Why? If it's all to do with food choices and lifestyle why was I the odd one out?

Sure, a lot of people do eat too much/eat the wrong things and end up fat. But so do a hell of a lot of skinny people and they don't get fat. Why is that if it's purely down to what you eat?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> Yes but again, don't you think those generations that went before had stress?
> 
> Some have very genuine reasons and for those people I am very sorry. I know how much my father struggled with his health.
> 
> However, we can make many excuses, but it still boils down to the same reasons in the majority of cases


yes generations before did have stress but they didnt have the take away foods and sugars to get obese on and get obese quickly. 
These foods are addictive. 
Recently University College London found that about 30% of weight differences between children were genetic, i know that doesnt count for the remaining 70% but food today has a lot to answer for. The point is when a person gets to the point of being obese (not overweight) its a hard thing to shake off and the they need support, it does cause terrible related illnesses and mental health issues


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> . But so do a hell of a lot of skinny people and they don't get fat. Why is that if it's purely down to what you eat?


It is not just down to what you eat. It is because they burn off the excess, it really is as simple as that.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> yes generations before did have stress but they didnt have the take away foods and sugars to get obese on and get obese quickly.
> These foods are addictive.
> Recently University College London found that about 30% of weight differences between children were genetic, i know that doesnt count for the remaining 70% but food today has a lot to answer for. The point is when a person gets to the point of being obese (not overweight) its a hard thing to shake off and the they need support, it does cause terrible related illnesses and mental health issues


So you are saying that people can't think at just over weight "hang on, I better stop eating so much"?
Thought humans had a brain that allowed them to make choices


Mundane said:


> It is not just down to what you eat. It is because they burn off the excess, it really is as simple as that.


I don't think it is quite as simple as that to be honest. Not in a fair number of cases anyway


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Mundane said:


> It is not just down to what you eat. It is because they burn off the excess, it really is as simple as that.


AHHHHHHHHH !!!!! it isnt that simple. This is what I have been trying to say from the beginning

Here is a list of scientifically *proven* factors

Long term conditions
Stress 
Depression
Mental health issues
GENES
Addiction
Lipid storage
Other mobility related conditions
Diet high in refined, processed carbohydrates
Diet high in bad fats
The problematic life behavioral patterns
Overly rapid eating
Eating in the presence of stress, especially chronic stress
Sleep deprivation
Lack of exercise
High exposure to toxins that cause an overloaded detoxification system


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Mundane said:


> It is not just down to what you eat. It is because they burn off the excess, it really is as simple as that.


And yet these same people are a hell of a lot less active than I am. So what they're doing to burn it off I really don't know. Seriously, these are people who don't walk anywhere except to the car. They don't play sports, they don't have active jobs, they sit around playing computer games or watching tv. Yet they're able to eat these things and live this way without getting fat.

Again, there's the assumption that thin people are clearly more active than us fatties and that's why they're thin. Not always the case I'm afraid.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> That's pretty judgemental actually. Whenever I had a morning hospital appointment I'd head over to the cafe after it and have a couple of slices of toast and a cup of tea there. Sometimes I'd have a couple of biscuits too. And despite it being mid morning or later that would be my breakfast/lunch as I didn't eat before I left home. You have no idea whether these people have eaten anything before getting to the hospital, you're just assuming they're eating simply because food is available.
> 
> Growing up I ate my meals. Reasonably healthy meals at that. I didn't snack between them because we couldn't afford to keep things like biscuits, crisps etc in. I had a piece of cake every Sunday at my grandmas, hardly excessive. I played out. I walked everywhere. I played chase, hopscotch, skipped etc at school at break times. I played out on my bike most evenings after school until it got dark. I was still a fat child. We all led the same life yet my brothers were skinny, my cousins were skinny, I was fat. Why? If it's all to do with food choices and lifestyle why was I the odd one out?
> 
> Sure, a lot of people do eat too much/eat the wrong things and end up fat. But so do a hell of a lot of skinny people and they don't get fat. Why is that if it's purely down to what you eat?


All of my appointments were at 8.00. a.m. I had to leave home at 6.30. a.m., to drop Rosie with my Sister and then drive to the hospital.

I used to have a slice of toast before I left home and then have lunch when I got back.

If someone there felt they had to eat breakfast in the café, fair enough, but why the crisps and biscuits?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Of course if weight control was as simple as monitoring calorie intake and calorie use, we wouldnt have millions spent by the scientific fraternity on obesity studies each year.

If its as cut and dried as so many people seem to think, why waste resources? Why fiddle with genetic sequencing? Why torture thousands upon thousands of lab animals when the answer is already know?

Could it possibly be that obesity is caused by more than just eating too much and exercising too little?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> yes generations before did have stress but they didnt have the take away foods and sugars to get obese on and get obese quickly.
> These foods are addictive.
> Recently University College London found that about 30% of weight differences between children were genetic, i know that doesnt count for the remaining 70% but food today has a lot to answer for. The point is when a person gets to the point of being obese (not overweight) its a hard thing to shake off and the they need support, it does cause terrible related illnesses and mental health issues


Yes, these foods are addictive. However, they're not compulsory.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> So you are saying that people can't think at just over weight "hang on, I better stop eating so much"?
> Thought humans had a brain that allowed them to make choices


That is exactly what I am saying......  I noticed my clothes were getting tight, im a size 12/14 I cut some foods out..lost weight... which is a natural response. Do you think its a natural response to get to the point where you are in effect killing your self( you have leg ulcers, cant breath, heart failure) and continue to eat??? If a smoker continues to smoke its understandable because its an addiction.... why isnt food the same???


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

rona said:


> So you are saying that people can't think at just over weight "hang on, I better stop eating so much"?
> Thought humans had a brain that allowed them to make choices
> 
> I don't think it is quite as simple as that to be honest. Not in a fair number of cases anyway


So people who smoke....should they not say' I must not have a ***, cos it will give me lung disease...clog my arteries...and 1000s of other potential harmful illnesses'.

Same with people who drink alcohol, take drugs etc.

It is addictive.

People need help.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Yes, these foods are addictive. However, they're not compulsory.


same a smoking but people continue to do that then end up with it causing COPD and are classed as disabled


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> That is exactly what I am saying......  I noticed my clothes were getting tight, im a size 12/14 I cut some foods out..lost weight... which is a natural response. Do you think its a natural response to get to the point where you are in effect killing your self( you have leg ulcers, cant breath, heart failure) and continue to eat??? If a smoker continues to smoke its understandable because its an addiction.... why isnt food the same???


Yes, food, like cigarettes, can be an addiction.

To cure yourself of a cigarette addiction, however, you have to give up ciggies and suffer the withdrawal symptoms.

You don't have to give up food. All you have to do is be more conscious of what you're eating and more aware of what will and won't harm you.

You can actually eat very well and still be healthy.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2014)

gorgeous said:


> Same with people who drink alcohol


I'll reply in a minute...just need another beer out of the fridge!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Yes, food, like cigarettes, can be an addiction.
> 
> To cure yourself of a cigarette addiction, however, you have to give up ciggies and suffer the withdrawal symptoms.
> 
> ...


And that is what people need support to do, to help them make healthy choices same as New Leaf does with smokers. Some people crave foods like smokers crave cigs, its not that simple.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> And that is what people need support to do, to help them make healthy choices same as New Leaf does with smokers. Some people crave foods like smokers crave cigs, its not that simple.


Does everybody need supporting through everything, even the most obvious?

What ever happened to common sense and willpower?

On the yard where I keep my horse, there are a family of four. Mum and Dad, in their Sixties, Daughter who is Forty, and their Granddaughter, who is 20. All four of them are obese.

They're never away from the Doctor's or the Hospital. They have all sort of health issues, from digestive, to joint pain, to high blood pressure. Their GP has told them again and again they need to lose weight.

I went up at lunchtime yesterday and all four of them were tucking into pie, chips, peas and bread from the Chip Shop.

Are these people really going to stop because a Therapist tells them? They won't stop when the Medical Profession is trying to tell them they're destroying their health.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

jon bda said:


> I'll reply in a minute...just need another beer out of the fridge!


Mmm alcohol is my one vice!


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

Sarah1983 said:


> And yet these same people are a hell of a lot less active than I am. So what they're doing to burn it off I really don't know. Seriously, these are people who don't walk anywhere except to the car. They don't play sports, they don't have active jobs, they sit around playing computer games or watching tv. Yet they're able to eat these things and live this way without getting fat.
> 
> Again, there's the assumption that thin people are clearly more active than us fatties and that's why they're thin. Not always the case I'm afraid.


Sounds like my fiancé yet he's thin, he does fidget a lot though.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Does everybody need supporting through everything, even the most obvious?
> 
> What ever happened to common sense and willpower?
> 
> ...


No people do not need support with everything however if your weight is putting you in the morbidly obese cat then yes, help is appropriate due to the risks attached to being that over weight and how difficult it is to lose


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sweety said:


> All of my appointments were at 8.00. a.m. I had to leave home at 6.30. a.m., to drop Rosie with my Sister and then drive to the hospital.
> 
> I used to have a slice of toast before I left home and then have lunch when I got back.
> 
> If someone there felt they had to eat breakfast in the café, fair enough, but why the crisps and biscuits?


Mine were usually somewhere between 9am and 10am and I preferred to eat in the cafe after my appointment, I don't do well eating when I first get up. Why the crisps and biscuits? Sometimes people just want something nice I guess. I eat crisps and biscuits now and then. Generally not for breakfast but I occasionally have a couple of biscuits with a cup of tea in the evening. Or a piece of cake.

The way of dealing with most addictions is to stop completely. There's a reason people tend not to be able to just have one cigarette, one hit of heroin etc. You can't do that with food.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> same a smoking but people continue to do that then end up with it causing COPD and are classed as disabled


If obese people have health issues then they are disabled but they are not disabled just because they are obese.


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

rona said:


> If obese people have health issues then they are disabled but they are not disabled just because they are obese.


This is the issue here. Obesity alone should not be classed as a disability.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Sarah1983 said:


> Mine were usually somewhere between 9am and 10am and I preferred to eat in the cafe after my appointment, I don't do well eating when I first get up. Why the crisps and biscuits? Sometimes people just want something nice I guess. I eat crisps and biscuits now and then. Generally not for breakfast but I occasionally have a couple of biscuits with a cup of tea in the evening. Or a piece of cake.
> 
> The way of dealing with most addictions is to stop completely. There's a reason people tend not to be able to just have one cigarette, one hit of heroin etc. You can't do that with food.


Sarah,

I'm not unsympathetic to that at all. I have, all my life, had a battle to stay slim. I absolutely love cake, biscuits, anything sweet, but I don't buy them, because if I did, I would eat the lot.

I often really crave something sweet, but I learned a long time ago that if I eat more than 1,000 calories a day, I gain weight.

I've had to be really hard with myself. When I go to the shop, say, to buy milk, the temptation to buy a packet of biscuits is huge, but I would eat them all.

For some, staying slim is a real battle and it does seem unfair when somebody else seems to be able to guzzle down what the heck they like and not gain weight but, sadly, that's the way it is for some of us.

I don't undermine at all the effort it takes to not gain weight. I feel hungry a lot of the time but, for me, the fear of gaining weight is more than the desire to eat.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> So people who smoke....should they not say' I must not have a ***, cos it will give me lung disease...clog my arteries...and 1000s of other potential harmful illnesses'.
> 
> Same with people who drink alcohol, take drugs etc.
> 
> ...


I think they should come behind others in the queue. Yes.

Old people are put to the back of the queue through no fault of their own, they can't help getting old.

Smokers, over eaters and druggies have a choice initially. It was their choice to start on the slippery slope. 
I know that once it takes hold it's a dreadful thing. I was a smoker for over 30 years, but it was still my stupidity in the first place that got me hooked


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

April 2013 stats
deaths 

*obesity (34,100)*
alcohol (6,669)
road traffic accidents (1,850)
illegal drugs (1,605)
HIV infection (504)

of all respiratory deaths smoking related (37,400) 
of all cancer deaths smoking related (22,500) 
of all circulatory disease deaths smoking related(18,100)

I think people would be surprised to see the obesity deaths.
It a problem and if someone can eat to the point it will shorten their life expectancy they need help

http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_107.pdf


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> If obese people have health issues then they are disabled but they are not disabled just because they are obese.


I agree obesity is not a disability, disabilities are caused due to obesity.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Mundane said:


> It is not just down to what you eat. It is because they burn off the excess, it really is as simple as that.


I'm sorry but it isn't as simple as that. I already explained my own situation but it seems most people have chosen to ignore it. I more or less doubled my weight yet ate healthy meals, no junk, no takeaways, all home cooked wholemeal/brown, lots of fruit/veg chicken and fish. I was active horse riding/dog walking, mucking out after 5 horses and yes full time nursing too but I still gained and continued to gain weight. Why? it certainly wasn't a choice and no amount of exercise and reducing calories shifted it. There is far more to this issue than simple calories in v calories out.

When I used to work in A & E we saw no end of people with self inflicted conditions the vast majority down to drinking too much alcohol. They took up masses of time and resources and were often violent. Yet it seems the obese are targeted by far more prejudice and judgement than people who drink to excess. Even moderate regular drinkers who might be causing gradual damage to their livers seem to be get off with far less criticism.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

rona said:


> I think they should come behind others in the queue. Yes.
> 
> Old people are put to the back of the queue through no fault of their own, they can't help getting old.
> 
> ...


What old people are put to the back of the queue? I have quite a few very elderly relatives and they are mainly still alive due to the medical treatment they get. The average life expectancy in this country has increased significantly and a lot of that is down to medical treatment.

And yes of course we have a choice in everything we do. My favourite quote is from Shakespeare, he says 
'Every step a human takes is for himself'. That is so true. But as I said n an earlier post unless you walk in another persons shoes we cannot judge. We don't know what leads these people to addictions, and why they find it sondifficult to beat it.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> I think they should come behind others in the queue. Yes.
> 
> Old people are put to the back of the queue through no fault of their own, they can't help getting old.
> 
> ...


I dont like this opinion ( you are entitled to it though) I think anyone can change their life and if they want help it should be available because in the long run we all make mistakes.

My mum is dying of cancer, she is a smoker and her cancer is smoking related. Is she any less deserving of treatments because her cancer is poss self inflicted? IMO NO. We can not play god, we offer a freely accessible health service for all and we should help anyone who needs it regardless of a condition being self inflicted or not.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm sorry but it isn't as simple as that. I already explained my own situation but it seems most people have chosen to ignore it. I more or less doubled my weight yet ate healthy meals, no junk, no takeaways, all home cooked wholemeal/brown, lots of fruit/veg chicken and fish. I was active horse riding/dog walking, mucking out after 5 horses and yes full time nursing too but I still gained and continued to gain weight. Why? it certainly wasn't a choice and no amount of exercise and reducing calories shifted it. There is far more to this issue than simple calories in v calories out.
> 
> When I used to work in A & E we saw no end of people with self inflicted conditions the vast majority down to drinking too much alcohol. They took up masses of time and resources and were often violent. Yet it seems the obese are targeted by far more prejudice and judgement than people who drink to excess. Even moderate regular drinkers who might be causing gradual damage to their livers seem to be get off with far less criticism.


Not from me.
It's the easiest of all to avoid, and to become addicted usually takes a fair while longer than most


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> I dont like this opinion ( you are entitled to it though) I think anyone can change their life and if they want help it should be available because in the long run we all make mistakes.
> 
> My mum is dying of cancer, she is a smoker and her cancer is smoking related. Is she any less deserving of treatments because her cancer is poss self inflicted? IMO NO. We can not play god, we offer a free health service for all and we should help anyone who needs it regardless of a condition being self inflicted or not.


It's not free though is it?

Sorry, that's a bit insensitive.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> It's not free though is it?


thats not the point I made. I should have put accessible I will edit..... did obese people pay in any less than anyone else so are less deserving of care?


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

My stepdad is obese and registered disabled. He can't walk without a stick. It's his own fault and he'll admit that without any argument whatsoever. But he has to park nearer to the supermarket or it'd take him flipping hours to get across the carpark, ha!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

If it's a choice between a smoker with a lung problem caused by their smoking or a heavy drinker with liver problems and someone who didn't harm themselves knowing exactly the damage they were doing then the latter should take precedent. As I understand it when it comes to transplants etc that is exactly what happens.

Everyone deserves free treatment under the NHS of course but they have limited resources.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Obesity isn't a disability ittself but it generates a whole load of other "symptoms" for example my next door neighbours skoot around in mobility scooters as they have this and that ailment but I bet you if they started gentle exercises and lost a bit of weight they could ditch those scooters.

Funny how they are totally able bodied in the privacy of the back garden yet at the front of the house they hobble around with walking sticks and scooters.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

rona said:


> So you are saying that people can't think at just over weight "hang on, I better stop eating so much"?
> Thought humans had a brain that allowed them to make choices


This part can be hard. I generally eat a very healthy diet and am very, very active. I am also a "normal" slim size, very occasionally too slim. But have "disordered eating" as the modern term is. When I binge I shove anything in my mouth and continue even when I feel sick - I just HAVE to; I know I can make the choice not to but at that moment I am just in a panic. I will eat anything and everything. I feel absolutely disgusting the minute I stop, I hate myself for it and always say to myself that I will remember this feeling and never do it again. Conversely when I control / starve I feel compelled to look at every small thing that enters my mouth and I use it to control my moods.

Luckily for me the binging and starving happens less and less these days but I do understand the overriding urge to eat. I cannot explain it as I am probably the most disciplined person I know and usually exert plenty of discipline over what goes down my trap (too much!!) as I want to be healthy and fuel my body correctly for exercise and recovery. But when things spiral out of control (emotionally usually) the first thing I do is stuff my face. I know it sounds disgusting and weak written down and in fact this thread has made me repelled by every little bit of fat on my body but I know for a fact that I will binge again.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> Look up thrifty genotypes. It explains that due to genes some people store fat more than other and this is related to when less food was around


Originally, I quoted this and wrote a reply that went something like, ""it's no use giving scientific facts to posters who just want to be prejudiced against overweight people - they'll only ignore them in favour of their prejudices". I decided not to post it and give peple the benefit of the doubt; so I deleted it instead of pressing the send button. But then I saw this:



Mundane said:


> I am not sure I agree with the "fat" gene though.


with a little agreeing "like" from Rona, and I thought nope, re-write it and post it. I was right after all; they are not interested in letting the scientific facts get in the way of their prejudices.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

In my line of work I see people lose their children because of their addictions. A mum so hooked on heroin that she passed out and left her very young child wandering about on the top floor of a tower block at 1 am in the morning. Her child was taken into care.
This Mum did everything to get her child back. Worked with the agencies. Cleaned up her act. Got her child back. Two years later her child was back in care. The mum back on heroin. The child is emotionally damaged and has a lot of issues. She could end up like her mum. Vicious circle.
The mum had a sad childhood. Abused as a young child. Very vulnerable and ended up with a man who emotionally and physically abused her. Introduced her to heroin. From then on a slippery slope. This is just one example.

Now I cannot imagine anything worse than losing my children, they are my life, my world.

Yes that woman could have said no but when you are so vulnerable, so weak and have no self esteem then no is difficult.


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

Spellweaver said:


> Originally, I quoted this and wrote a reply that went something like, ""it's no use giving scientific facts to posters who just want to be prejudiced against overweight people - they'll only ignore them in favour of their prejudices". I decided not to post it and give peple the benefit of the doubt; so I deleted it instead of pressing the send button. But then I saw this:
> 
> with a little agreeing "like" from Rona, and I thought nope, re-write it and post it. I was right after all; they are not interested in letting the scientific facts get in the way of their prejudices.


I have no prejudices against overweight people I am overweight myself.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm not prejudiced. I just have an opinion and, as it is a battle I fight every day of the week, I do think I'm entitled to that.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Mundane said:


> I have no prejudices against overweight people I am overweight myself.


I'm no waif! Not obese mind but alot of seriously VERY overweight people are in denial just how big they really are.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Dogless said:


> This part can be hard. I generally eat a very healthy diet and am very, very active. I am also a "normal" slim size, very occasionally too slim. But have "disordered eating" as the modern term is. When I binge I shove anything in my mouth and continue even when I feel sick - I just HAVE to; I know I can make the choice not to but at that moment I am just in a panic. I will eat anything and everything. I feel absolutely disgusting the minute I stop, I hate myself for it and always say to myself that I will remember this feeling and never do it again. Conversely when I control / starve I feel compelled to look at every small thing that enters my mouth and I use it to control my moods.
> 
> Luckily for me the binging and starving happens less and less these days but I do understand the overriding urge to eat. I cannot explain it as I am probably the most disciplined person I know and usually exert plenty of discipline over what goes down my trap (too much!!) as I want to be healthy and fuel my body correctly for exercise and recovery. But when things spiral out of control (emotionally usually) the first thing I do is stuff my face. I know it sounds disgusting and weak written down and in fact this thread has made me repelled by every little bit of fat on my body but I know for a fact that I will binge again.


I cannot answer this for fear of upsetting you more.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> Originally, I quoted this and wrote a reply that went something like, ""it's no use giving scientific facts to posters who just want to be prejudiced against overweight people - they'll only ignore them in favour of their prejudices". I decided not to post it and give peple the benefit of the doubt; so I deleted it instead of pressing the send button. But then I saw this:
> 
> with a little agreeing "like" from Rona, and I thought nope, re-write it and post it. I was right after all; they are not interested in letting the scientific facts get in the way of their prejudices.


Ive given up on scientific facts and come to the conclusion that I wasted my time passing my biology at degree level and should have just come on here instead lol


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Iheartcats said:


> I'm no waif! Not obese mind but alot of seriously VERY overweight people are in denial just how big they really are.


I agree lots of over weight people are in denial


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

Iheartcats said:


> I'm no waif! Not obese mind but alot of seriously VERY overweight people are in denial just how big they really are.


I would not know to be able to comment on that I can only speak from a personal aspect and say that I am under no illusion how big I am


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

rona said:


> *So you are saying that people can't think at just over weight "hang on, I better stop eating so much"?*
> Thought humans had a brain that allowed them to make choices


Did your father?


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

rona said:


> I cannot answer this for fear of upsetting you more.


I am not upset; you can be as honest as you like .


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

If someone is in denial; if they truly can not see how big they are, nor understand the possible health implications, could you not then argue that there is a psychological issue going on, and that maybe they arent overweight due to poor choices, but because of mental health issues?


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

See, this really angers me about this whole debate with obesity and how much is actually down to someone's own fault.

We provide a number of reasons why someone may be fat, both physical and mental problems. Depression which can cause people to turn to food. Yeah, I get that, just as those who are depressed turn to not eating, drinking, drug abuse, sex, etc.

Then there addiction, just like people addicted to sex, smoking, drugs, alcohol...

But it really does make me seeth that people show such sympathy and compassion for obese people when it is due to such things like addiction and depression but when this can apply to smoking, drugs, alcohol abuse people tut and say it's not a valid reason and excuses. Always the comments 'dirty smokers....disgusting alcoholic. No excuses....That is acceptable though for some reason. But it is okay for someone to become obese from depression and addiction but not other things like drugs, smoking, alcohol, etc. Why? 

Totally unfair to sympathise against one minority and not the next. 

Should I put the blame on others and other things because I smoke and drink like a fish? I make that choice, be it an idiot or not. I know smoking is dangerous to my health, just like binge drinking too much. I have nobody to blame but myself. Just like when I went through depression and drank heavy then. Depression makes us do all sorts of things but I still chose to drink and didn't become completely idiotic. At the time however, it was a way of coping and pushing away the pain. I still don't particularly blame that on other people and other things. 

It peeves me off that people always pop at smokers and drinkers but don't ever seem to apply this to obese people. Because half of these points being raised for why obesity occurs, can very much be applied to why people smoke heavily and drink excessively.

I also disagree that fat people get criticised harshly because it is the image they show. I really do think it is because of the health behind it, just like extremely thin people.

When I was a teen, in the group of friends I had, there were three fat people and five thin people. (This was before I had issues with anorexia) I have always been very thin and had an issue gaining weight. I tried everything to put some weight on as in the group I was criticised the worst and called terrible names. Even being called anorexic back then when I wasn't. So...the argument with society loving thin and hating fat can really be false assumptions. Yes, morbidly obese people are unattractive, just like anorexic people though.

I support help being given to people to help them lose weight, just as I support helping people stop smoking and drinking, drugs, etc. Just as I support people who become ill due to smoking, drinking...just as I support those who become ill and get health problems from being fat. People do deserve a chance to turn their life around for the better.

But I don't agree with obesity being classed as an illness because that is favouring a group over another in a certain way. It's insulting and offensive for one. And should we then apply that to people who become alcoholics due to depression, or people who smoke because they turned to it as a way of coping with a traumatic childhood past as an example?

The way in finding if someone is obese is not a good way either. My mum was telling me of a boxer (Cannot remember the name) who was classed as being very obese but it was actually due to being very muscle y. This could be false as well. And then which people do we say have a genuine disability due to obesity. How do we determine which ones genuinely have a disability leading to obesity, and not obesity leading to disabilities?

At the end of the day, nobody is perfect, not in the slightest. We all damage our health in some ways, be it smoking, alcohol, drugs, sugar, fatty food intake, etc.

Times have changed definitely. I only have to hear my dad talk about his childhood (He's 65) and I realise how different it was back when he was a child. We live in a world full of so many luxuries that are an inch away from grabbing. Society has changed as well and really does play a big part in what we consume as well. Not to mention how many fastfood places there, more advertisements for bad food than good, not enough promotion in health eating, cost of healthy eating....These companies selling unhealthy food really aren't going to want to lose money so will make sure they stay at number 1. Why do you think these companies buy weight classes/groups such as slimming world, weight watchers, etc? So if they lose money through their bad yummy foods, they make it up on the people wanting to lose weight.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

..............


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm under no illusion I'm overweight, size 20 in trousers in fact. But then again I don't spend my time convinced I am the biggest victim in the world because of it.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Mundane said:


> I would not know to be able to comment on that I can only speak from a personal aspect and say that I am under no illusion how big I am


I have to keep talking about my best friend bless her (her ears must be so burning!) but she really is huge! Yet she can't see it!

She thinks she's hour glass shape and curvy but she isn't - she's bell shape. She's a size 24 and all of her weight is on her lower half. She has absolutely HUGE hips, bum and thighs but her calf muscles, waist and shoulders are relatively slim.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> If someone is in denial; if they truly can not see how big they are, nor understand the possible health implications, could you not then argue that there is a psychological issue going on, and that maybe they arent overweight due to poor choices, but because of mental health issues?


That's a mental health issue and I think those people are being made even more vulnerable because of the excuses and apparent acceptance of obesity in todays society.


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## Mundane (Jun 9, 2014)

Iheartcats said:


> I have to keep talking about my best friend bless her (her ears must be so burning!) but she really is huge! Yet she can't see it!
> 
> She thinks she's hour glass shape and curvy but she isn't - she's bell shape. She's a size 24 and all of her weight is on her lower half. She has absolutely HUGE hips, bum and thighs but her calf muscles, waist and shoulders are relatively slim.


From what I have read and heard a lot of people think they are hourglass yet a very small percentage are. I do feel sorry for people who can not see past rose tinted glasses.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> That's a mental health issue and I think those people are being made even more vulnerable because of the excuses and apparent acceptance of obesity in todays society.


obesity is not accepted look at some of the comments on this thread! obesity can not be hidden like drug/alcohol addiction and is visible . obese people get comments from people all the time, its hardly seen as acceptable


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

rona said:


> That's a mental health issue and I think those people are being made even more vulnerable because of the excuses and apparent acceptance of obesity in todays society.


People with any addiction will have excuses....they do not think rationally!

And as for acceptance of obesity, I completely disagree with that. Who exactly is accepting it?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> People with any addiction will have excuses....they do not think rationally!
> 
> And as for acceptance of obesity, I completely disagree with that. Who exactly is accepting it?


I had an addiction and not for one moment did I accept it or excuse it.

A large proportion on that 25% must think it's ok


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

rona said:


> That's a mental health issue and I think those people are being made even more vulnerable because of the excuses and apparent acceptance of obesity in todays society.


But then theres the issue of what is and isnt a mental illness these days.

Being mentally ill almost seems like the latest fashion accessory at times, with many people using the stigmas attached to justify lifestyles and choices.

Not to mention the fact that mental illness does not absolve someone of responsibility.


ClaireLouise said:


> obesity is not accepted look at some of the comments on this thread! obesity can not be hidden like drug/alcohol addiction and is visible . obese people get comments from people all the time, its hardly seen as acceptable


I dunno, ive seen the media describe obviously fat celebs who are the current in thing as 'curvy'. They only seem to become fat when they are no longer popular.

Mind you, ive seen clearly fit, healthy, athletic celebs described as curvy, or even fat!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> I had an addiction and not for one moment did I accept it or excuse it.
> 
> A large proportion on that 25% must think it's ok


but would you have expected treatment for it? or any condition such as lung cancer related to your addiction? would you want to be back of the queue



rona said:


> I think they should come behind others in the queue.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> obesity is not accepted look at some of the comments on this thread! obesity can not be hidden like drug/alcohol addiction and is visible . obese people get comments from people all the time, its hardly seen as acceptable


No, obesity isn't just accepted. Neither are alcoholism, smoking or heroin addiction.

None of them, however, are a disability.

I may be old fashioned, and very probably am, but what seems to have gone wrong to me is that nobody wants to take responsibility any more.

It's yes, I smoke, drink, overeat, but none of it's my fault. It's my metabolism, family history, bad childhood, etc., etc., etc.

I think many of us would have read/heard about the man who sued MacDonalds a few years ago because if they hadn't sold burgers, he couldn't have overeaten on them and become obesed.

Ridiculous. If I go to the main road, close my eyes and run out, can I sue Ford if I get hit by a Fiesta?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Curvy means you're more hourglass I thought you can be quite small and still curvy, most of the celebs they applaud as plus-sized etc have tiny waists just fairly large hips and breasts or very large and still have that shape. It just sounds better than fat so some bigger people prefer it


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

3dogs2cats said:


> but no way should it be regarded as a disability. Agree with the doctor on the TV, rather than giving a blue badge to park closer they should be encouraged to park further away and walk more.


Totally agree.



Nonnie said:


> I would bet money that they could prove being fat was 100% healthy, and there would still be a furore over it, as it boils down to aesthetics and what people find visually appealing and attractive.


Never will be tho, will it, cos it's just not.



rona said:


> But there is a choice in a lot of cases. An accident is an unexpected incident


I agree. When I had my accident, it wasn't my fault, it was a pure accident (although it was my choice to be around horses and that's a whole other debate, people putting themselves at risk with dangerous animals or on super bikes etc) and I'm glad the NHS picked me up and fixed me. However, my being fat is my fault, pure and simple. Talking to other fat people, they say it's their fault, they've let it happen to themselves because they eat too much and don't move enough. For many (not all!) fat people, it _*is*_ a simple equation of eating too much, exercising too little.

I totally see what people in their 50s/60s are saying on here: you had no choice back in the day and the average daily consumption of calories in the 1950s was 5000 because you had to walk everywhere, you worked a non sedentary job most probably.



Spellweaver said:


> Not if they are driving dangerously it's not - which was the scenario I gave. Someone who is driving dangerously causes an accident equally as much as someone causes themself to be overweight.


Yes, that's a choice, but making yourself disabled because you eat too much is stupid, much like dangerous driving. It's what I have done over the past few years, obviously more so since the accident when I physically couldn't really walk at all. I know it's not easy, habits are hard to break, but it can be done. I'm not sure the NHS should bear the burden of looking after people who are fat (like me) who have related issues that would resolve if they 'simply' lost weight and stopped eating themselves into medical problems.

Last year, there were news reports saying doctors could potentially turn away overweight patients who might need hip or knee replacements. It made me stop and think. I just need to pull myself together and get back on the diet and make it a lifestyle change. I have sickened myself having lost eight stones and put most of it back on. I need to stop with the excuses and bite the bullet!

Edited to say: there's nothing wrong using the word fat. It's the correct term. It's what some of us store too much of. Shall we say we store too much adipose instead? 

P.S The nurse said if I hadn't had so much cushioning, my leg would be a whole lot worse-hey, a benefit of being fat!


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I suffer from problems that bring me firmly under the disability act. 

We all have choices, we kid ourselves that we don't, but ultimately, who eats that food, drinks that extra glass etc, who chooses to do that? Nobody twists our arm.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

By the way, thanks for the likes for my comments. I don't want to sound like I'm slagging my friend off  She's a lovely person but she is just in denial and its frustrating getting her to change her ways. Alot of her beliefs are just so deep rooted and ingrained.

We went to the gym together a few years ago but it got too expensive for her as she changed jobs but then she resigned herself to "always being this big, this is my natural shape". Trouble is she won't change her eating habits which I'm sure will help.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

rona said:


> I had an addiction and not for one moment did I accept it or excuse it.
> 
> A large proportion on that 25% must think it's ok


I would have thought if you had an addiction you would have accepted it or you would have stopped it. Besides, if it was the case, because that was your situation, does not mean it is the same for everyone else. You do not know what has or is going on in that persons life.

Can you show me the link to where is says 25 percent mst think it is okay...that would be interesting to read. Thank you.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> but would you have expected treatment for it? or any condition such as lung cancer related to your addiction? would you want to be back of the queue


I paid for what I needed to quit myself as the medical profession where ruddy useless. 
I wouldn't want to be put before someone who had lung cancer through no fault of their own


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> Curvy means you're more hourglass I thought you can be quite small and still curvy, most of the celebs they applaud as plus-sized etc have tiny waists just fairly large hips and breasts or very large and still have that shape. It just sounds better than fat so some bigger people prefer it


My mother used to call me "well covered" or "statuesque"  lol! Whatever that means :lol:


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

rona said:


> That's a mental health issue and I think those people are being made even more vulnerable because of the excuses and apparent acceptance of obesity in todays society.


The problem is also that with mental health issues come drugs. And almost every single one of those drugs has weight gain as a side effect. On talking to doctors and manufacturers the drugs themselves do not cause the weight gain but do cause you to crave carbohydrates (and they really, really do). Added to that the leaflet on one of mine tells you not to exercise excessively as it lengthens the Q-T interval of your heart and tells you not to go outside too much as you will have increased sensitivity to the sun. So a less than great doctor TELLS you you will gain weight, it is to be expected. Add the other information and the awful lethargy that is commonly a side effect and you get someone sat inside, bored and craving food. My drugs for my back also cite weight gain and two of those also lengthen the Q-T interval.

Because of the heart business both my psych and my GP have voiced their concern that, with all the exercise I do, I will "drop dead". I therefore have frequent ECGs to check that the Q-T interval is an acceptable length.

SoI was told I wouldn't run again with my back and require some expensive drugs to keep me going and expensive scans and I was told not to exercise too much with the drugs so need frequent, albeit very cheap, tests.

Yet - I am applauded for maintaining a good weight and applauded for all my running by all doctors. However - I am not only incurring extra expenses but am risking some pretty serious consequences. Why is my behaviour any better than someone who compulsively overeats? It isn't, yet is socially acceptable and often admired - grit, determination, inspirational even. Yet is it?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I don't think anyone needs to be rake thin.

Marilyn Monroe certainly wasn't, yet men adored her and understandably so, she was gorgeous.

I smoke, but I don't blame anyone else or demand medical support. I take the decision to buy cigarettes and smoke them. My decision, my responsibility.

I have all the time in the World for anyone who says, "I eat too much", I'm not so sympathetic with those who will try to blame every Man and His Dog for their own problems.

Sometimes, we need to own what we are and what we do. It isn't always someone else's fault.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

Do you know what? I have a pretty comfortable life. Live in a nice house. Got a great hubby. Probably earn more than most. Got great kids.

I could sit here and say look at al them overweight sausage roll scoffers, peed up alchos, yellow stained teeth smokers let them get on with it...but when I fall off my pedestal and need medical treatment for my banged heed, cos I am so perfect I expect to go to the front of the queue and let them with the addictions suffer at the back!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> obesity is not accepted look at some of the comments on this thread! obesity can not be hidden like drug/alcohol addiction and is visible . obese people get comments from people all the time, its hardly seen as acceptable


Exactly, Claire. It really amazes me how people can say they are not prejudiced and then trot out prejudices cloaked as "observations". It amazes me that they can ignore the facts in favour of their prejudices.

It's bad enough when people think that because they can eat what they want that overweight people must be greedy and lazy, or in denial about their size. It's worse that people cling to these beliefs even in the face of the scientific facts.

But the saddest part of all is that there are overweight people who are so eager to be accepted that they buy into the whole prejudice thing and apply it to themselves.

We should all be slim and beautiful and anyone who isn't is lazy and greedy and can be ridiculed. Yet another image someone is going to punish themselves for not living up to.

No wonder we are a nation with so many eating disorders.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Dogless said:


> The problem is also that with mental health issues come drugs. And almost every single one of those drugs has weight gain as a side effect. On talking to doctors and manufacturers the drugs themselves do not cause the weight gain but do cause you to crave carbohydrates (and they really, really do). Added to that the leaflet on one of mine tells you not to exercise excessively as it lengthens the Q-T interval of your heart and tells you not to go outside too much as you will have increased sensitivity to the sun. So a less than great doctor TELLS you you will gain weight, it is to be expected. Add the other information and the awful lethargy that is commonly a side effect and you get someone sat inside, bored and craving food. My drugs for my back also cite weight gain and two of those also lengthen the Q-T interval.
> 
> Because of the heart business both my psych and my GP have voiced their concern that, with all the exercise I do, I will "drop dead". I therefore have frequent ECGs to check that the Q-T interval is an acceptable length.
> 
> ...


There's all sorts of different vulnerability. We could be here all night


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

gorgeous said:


> People with any addiction will have excuses....they do not think rationally!
> 
> And as for acceptance of obesity, I completely disagree with that. Who exactly is accepting it?


Agree with the top part!

Don't think anyone's accepting it or why is it always headline news?


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

rona said:


> There's all sorts of different vulnerability. We could be here all night


Absolutely - just trying to say in my clumsy, rambling way that not everything is cut and dried .


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Do you know what? I have a pretty comfortable life. Live in a nice house. Got a great hubby. Probably earn more than most. Got great kids.
> 
> I could sit here and say look at al them overweight sausage roll scoffers, peed up alchos, yellow stained teeth smokers let them get on with it...but when I fall off my pedestal and need medical treatment for my banged heed, cos I am so perfect I expect to go to the front of the queue and let them with the addictions suffer at the back!


This is exactly how I feel too.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

I think I am going to bale out of this thread. I can feel myself getting a bit het up!

Perhaps I will go and have a glass of vin rouge and a *** on the decking!


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> This is exactly how I feel too.


Are you perfect too Claire? Do you want to join me for a *** and a glass of vino?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Ridiculous. If I go to the main road, close my eyes and run out, can I sue Ford if I get hit by a Fiesta?


But if you did that and lost both of your legs, would you expect to be classed as disabled?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

rona said:


> That's a mental health issue and I think those people are being made even more vulnerable because of the excuses and *apparent acceptance of obesity in todays society*.





cinnamontoast said:


> Don't think anyone's accepting it or why is it always headline news?


see above post to see where the acceptance comment came from


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Are you perfect too Claire? Do you want to join me for a *** and a glass of vino?


Im off to for a Vino gotta get my priorities right lol


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

ClaireLouise said:


> Im off to for a Vino gotta get my priorities right lol


PMSL, I'm drinking too!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

cinnamontoast said:


> PMSL, I'm drinking too!


Im on annual leave so gotta have a treat, enjoy ya drinky


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> But if you did that and lost both of your legs, would you expect to be classed as disabled?


No. I would expect to be classed as a fool.

If I did it to myself, how could I blame someone else?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

gorgeous said:


> Are you perfect too Claire? Do you want to join me for a *** and a glass of vino?


Well I'm off to walk six dogs (two of which are border collies. True, I'll be walking with my stick because my knees hurt after three 13 hours shifts in a row on Mon, Tues and Wed. When I come back I'll be doing the washing up, tidying around, putting the covers on the garden furniture, and having a cup of tea with no sugar before going to bed.

And THAT, folks, is the truth about what an overweight person with arthritis actually does - and sorry to burst your prejudices but it's not scoff fast food, crisps and chocolates before switching off the TV, rolling the carcass off the settee, and getting the crane to lift me to bed so I dont expand any energy at all.

G'night all!


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2014)

Sweety said:


> No. I would expect to be classed as a fool.


Because you sure post like one?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

jon bda said:


> Because you sure post like one?


Do I? I post my honest opinions. If that makes me a fool in your estimation, I can live with that.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

What a sad end to the day, I will go to my bed tonight thinking of the many different ways people chose to hurt each other and how intolerant we have become.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Do I? I post my honest opinions. If that makes me a fool in your estimation, I can live with that.


Having seen someone today for the first time since they became an amputee recently, i'll stick with my original opinion thanks. What sucks even more is the fact that the guy is self employed and one of the hardest working people i know...but to coin your phrase, what a fool hey...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

jon bda said:


> Having seen someone today for the first time since they became an amputee recently, i'll stick with my original opinion thanks. What sucks even more is the fact that the guy is self employed and one of the hardest working people i know...but to coin your phrase, what a fool hey...


No. I said I would be a fool. I didn't call anyone else a fool, particularly not anyone I don't know.

I don't know why you chose to attack me.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Mundane said:


> From what I have read and heard a lot of people think they are hourglass yet a very small percentage are. I do feel sorry for people who can not see past rose tinted glasses.


I genuinely AM an hourglass shape. In rough modern clothing size terms I'm about an 10-12 top, size 8 waist, and size 12 hips. Makes buying trousers interesting! 

Obesity is a complex issue. SOME of it is genetic. I have a very dear older friend in an lady who has been moderately large as long as I have known her. She has tried all the major diets over the years, and is pretty active and eats pretty sensibly anyway, but has never been able to shift the weight.

Another friend struggles with weight issues for different reasons. She developed eating disorders as a result of a childhood I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy and gained a lot of weight, and then was diagnosed with an unrelated degeneritive medical condition which means she now uses a wheelchair. However, despite all that over the last few years she's been successfully attending weight loss groups, and has lost several stone of weight 

Me, as a youngster I was always underweight for my height. These days I'm in the OK bracket, and though I have never been overweight I have been a stone heavier than I am now - that was during a very stressful couple of years, and I was snacking in the evening far too much, plus not exercising as much as I should.

Anyway, I don't think obesity itself can be classed as a disability, but it can lead to disabling conditions being developed. As to why it is on the rise, I think a lot of it is simply to do with availability of food, the type of foods that are pushed, and that many people don't cook for themselves any more. My mum remembers sweet rationing, and when I was young snacking between meals was not encouraged (though I did have a bag of crisps every night before bed ). We ate home cooked meals, the only takeaway we had was fish and chips once a week on Saturday after swimming, and chocolate biscuits were limited to one a day. Anything like McDonalds was a rarity!

Then along came an explosion of high fructose corn syrup based sweets and snack foods and soft drinks and ready meals - and advertising. Anyone else remember this one?

_"A finger of Fudge is just enough to give your kids a treat.
A finger of Fudge is just enough until it's time to eat.
It's full of Cadbury goodness
And very small and neat
A finger of Fudge is just enough to give your kids a treat."_

I think that is the very first advert I remember which promoted eating between meals. I couldn't even begin to guess how many snack food adverts are out there now!

So personally I think a good way to help manage weight is to cook from scratch as much as you can. Yes, of course you have to be sensible about WHAT you cook too, but at a stroke you cut out all the processed foods and additives found in ready meals and many takeaways, which can only be a good thing.


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> I genuinely AM an hourglass shape. In rough modern clothing size terms I'm about an 10-12 top, size 8 waist, and size 12 hips. Makes buying trousers interesting!


Have you tried Boden trousers? They're cut tiny on the waist but have lots of hip room; I'm kinda straight up-and-down so whenever I try their trousers I just end up thinkng "who are these supposed to fit?!", since if I can get the waist to fit there's always room for two in the arse :blink:


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Very sad to read some of the posts on here, where is the compassion? What an uncaring society we are becoming when people support a tiered health service, bet they'd feel differently if it affected their loved ones.

When the NHS was founded we'd just fought a war, had rationing & faced huge rebuilding. We are the 7th richest nation in the world! This govt can find money for it. It doesn't want to.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

Provided obesity is due to over indulgence then no it shouldn't be classed as a disability.

The difficulty is that obesity can in time cause other medical problems including additional stress on the heart, joints which in turn can cause other medical problems.

Once the person has lost the weight even in some cases had cosmetic surgery to tuck and tightens things up. Any damage, to the organs and joints, at that time will have already been done.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

I am probably going to sound unsympathetic but I do not believe obesity is a disability but I do agree it is a side product of some disabilities. 

For example my sister is bipolar, her weight rocketed out of control up till just over a year ago where she decided to do something about it and is now getting it under control after losing five and a half stone in a year. 

I am obese, my knees hurt, I breathe heavily, I chafe (TMI I know!) I am now sitting at 14 stone ( My heaviest being 18 stone back in 2012 ) 

I am not disabled, I have an unhealthy relationship with food that being on the "sick" will not cure. 

I know there are some people who are genuinely overweight through no fault of their own due to a disability, but there are also those who do not help themselves and are constantly sat filling their face with crap.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I think for me the 'big issue' is what society has become. A rise in the likes of obesity, mental health issues and such. Modern society seems to be much more of an enabler than it ever used to be. Ultimately it is a reflection on us as the human race.

There are some really awful examples in this thread. It saddens me greatly that people sit here debating what is worthy of NHS treatment and what is not. As I said in another thread a couple of weeks ago, I am very glad that it is not up to people on this forum about who does and doesn't receive NHS treatment. That underlines my first three sentences pretty well; people picking at other people, other people getting defensive and using random examples that then pick at other people. What a lovely cycle, way to go people of the planet. No wonder so many people are as they are; smokers, alcoholics, drug addicts, overweight, obese, *dead*. Yes that probably does sound quite extreme, but I think we all know there is some truth in it.

I am a firm believer that help should be given to those who want it, but until someone does want that help, it won't get them very far. I also think it says a great deal about our society that people seem so unable and/or unwilling to help themselves at times.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

GoldenShadow said:


> There are some really awful examples in this thread. It saddens me greatly that people sit here debating what is worthy of NHS treatment and what is not. As I said in another thread a couple of weeks ago, I am very glad that it is not up to people on this forum about who does and doesn't receive NHS treatment. That underlines my first three sentences pretty well; people picking at other people, other people getting defensive and using random examples that then pick at other people. What a lovely cycle, way to go people of the planet. No wonder so many people are as they are; smokers, alcoholics, drug addicts, overweight, obese, *dead*. Yes that probably does sound quite extreme, but I think we all know there is some truth in it.
> 
> I am a firm believer that help should be given to those who want it, but until someone does want that help, it won't get them very far. I also think it says a great deal about our society that people seem so unable and/or unwilling to help themselves at times.


Although I don't believe that being obese is a disability I have no issues with obesity being dealt with by the NHS, it will relieve the strain of other issues caused by obesity such as heart disease , diabetes , joint problems etc etc


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

The whole link below is very good, however the bits I have quoted are due to the argument on here as to if obesity is a disability.

From:
Should obesity be classed as a disability? | Mail Online

Currently in the UK the law is clear, the Equality Act 2010 refrained from classing obesity as a disability.

Instead the Government definition is that a person is 'disabled under the Equality Act 2010, if they have a physical or mental impairment that has a 'substantial' and 'long-term' negative effect on a person's ability to do normal daily activities.'


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

For those saying if it's not self inflicted, if it's down to a medical issue etc, how do you decide whether someones obesity is due to medical issues? Doctors were adamant the drug I was on would not cause weight gain, still are as far as I know (even though weight gain is listed as one of the common side effects!) Yet go on any epilepsy site and there are hundreds of others who've experienced massive weight gain on it. Not just a few pounds, we're talking 50lbs or more. With this particular medication often being the only factor that's changed.

Same with this insulin resistance thing, is it the insulin resistance causing the weight gain or the weight gain causing the insulin resistance? Nobody has the answer to that. It's not always as black and white as some would like to believe.

Personally I do not consider myself to be disabled because I'm obese. Nowhere near. And I don't think lumping all obese people together as being disabled is the right thing to do. Some are, some aren't. That's like assuming all people who are a healthy weight are able bodied, they're not. But the attitudes many have towards those who are overweight is absolutely appalling, both on here and in real life. I sincerely hope those of you who think we're just lazy and greedy people with no self control never find yourself in our shoes because honestly, it is not pleasant in any way, shape or form.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Animallover26 said:


> *The whole link below is very good*, however the bits I have quoted are due to the argument on here as to if obesity is a disability.
> 
> From:
> Should obesity be classed as a disability? | Mail Online
> ...


I would never class any article pulled from the Daily Mail as good.  Most unreliable thing ever to be read


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> For those saying if it's not self inflicted, if it's down to a medical issue etc, how do you decide whether someones obesity is due to medical issues? Doctors were adamant the drug I was on would not cause weight gain, still are as far as I know (even though weight gain is listed as one of the common side effects!) Yet go on any epilepsy site and there are hundreds of others who've experienced massive weight gain on it. Not just a few pounds, we're talking 50lbs or more. With this particular medication often being the only factor that's changed.
> 
> Same with this insulin resistance thing, is it the insulin resistance causing the weight gain or the weight gain causing the insulin resistance? Nobody has the answer to that. It's not always as black and white as some would like to believe.
> 
> Personally I do not consider myself to be disabled because I'm obese. Nowhere near. And I don't think lumping all obese people together as being disabled is the right thing to do. Some are, some aren't. That's like assuming all people who are a healthy weight are able bodied, they're not. But the attitudes many have towards those who are overweight is absolutely appalling, both on here and in real life. I sincerely hope those of you who think we're just lazy and greedy people with no self control never find yourself in our shoes because honestly, it is not pleasant in any way, shape or form.


I wish my mum was still overweight, she was always around size 18 which was pretty large for her height at 5' 2". She became a shadow of her former self once she got dementia


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Animallover26 said:


> The whole link below is very good, however the bits I have quoted are due to the argument on here as to if obesity is a disability.
> 
> From:
> Should obesity be classed as a disability? | Mail Online
> ...


You have only told half of the story - but that's what happens if you believe things in rags like the Daily Wail 

Despite having posted this already on this thread I'll post it again.

The Equality Act 2010 states that a whether or not a condition is classed as a disability is based on the *effects* of the condition and not on its *cause*. This is it ad verbatim, with links for all to check:

Equality Act 2010
Guidance
www.odi.gov.uk/equalityact

"_A8.
It is not necessary to consider how an impairment is caused, even
if the cause is a consequence of a condition which is excluded. For
example, liver disease as a result of alcohol dependency would count
as an impairment, although an addiction to alcohol itself is expressly
excluded from the scope of the definition of disability in the Act. What
it is important to consider is the effect of an impairment not its cause -
provided that it is not an excluded condition._"

Furthermore, the example they give of someone classed as having a disability describes a condition brought about by obesity:

Equality Act 2010
Guidance
www.odi.gov.uk/equalityact
_9
*A woman has obesity which gives rise to impairments such as
mobility restrictions and breathing difficulties. She is unable to walk
more than 50 yards without having to rest.*
A man has borderline moderate learning difficulties which have an
adverse impact on his short-term memory and his levels of literacy
and numeracy. For example, he cannot write any original material,
as opposed to slowly copying existing text, and he cannot write his
address from memory.
It is the effects of these impairments that need to be considered,
rather than the underlying conditions themselves._

So while the the Equality Act 2010 does not class obesity as a disability, the conditions which arise from obesity are - providing, as you said earlier, that the condition (the *condition*, not the *cause* of the condition) fulfils the following criteria:

"_A
person has a disability for the purposes of the Act if he or she has a
physical or mental impairment and the impairment has a substantial
and long-term adverse effect on his or her ability to carry out normal
day-to-day activities_"
http://webarchive.nationalarchives....tp://odi.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wor/new/ea-guide.pdf

Thankfully, the law is more tolerant than a lot of people on here. If someone has arthritis caused by obesity that has a substanital effect on their ability to caarry out normal activities, then they are protected under the law in every walk of life:

"_Protection from discrimination for disabled people applies to disabled people in a range ofcircumstances, covering the provision of goods, facilities and services, the exercise of public functions, premises, work, education, and associations._"
http://webarchive.nationalarchives....tp://odi.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wor/new/ea-guide.pdf


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I give up........... 

As I said before obesity is Not a disability, but it can cause problems which are a disability......... that's it, nice and simple and in the link I gave it says that too.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

You're both saying the same thing. One is just a summary of the Act.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Im 6ft tall, ive a 48" chest but i weigh 19 stones





come and call fat to my face it you dare......


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Im 6ft tall, ive a 48" chest but i weigh 19 stones
> 
> come and call fat to my face it you dare......


 Fatty *runs away*  :smilewinkgrin:


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2014)

Colliebarmy said:


> Im 6ft tall, ive a 48" chest but i weigh 19 stones


Elomi black boned basque corset style with suspenders size 48DD bnwt rrp£60 | eBay

:lol:


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