# please help??? cat just had kittens



## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

Hi friends,

sorry for my first post to be asking for help but I'm a bit at a loss right now. A neighborhood cat turned up in a box in my backyard with three newborn kittens about 40 hrs ago. By the time we found her, she had already cleaned up the afterbirth etc. so i am guessing the kittens were at least an hour old by then. We've brought her inside as it was cold and the spot she chose wasn't too good at all and she seems comfortable in the box we set up in a spare room. We've been feeding her meat and biscuits and raw eggs. 

Her milk seems to have come in, all three kittens are active and nurse a lot, but i just have some questions as i've never been in this situation (I have cats but they're spayed).

Firstly, we thought we could feel a hard lump in her abdomen and figured perhaps we'd wake up to another kitten, but since then her tummy is less distended and we can't feel the lump anymore. Still, she's licking her abdomen and vulva and keeps going back to her nest outside and, since we put it in, a separate more enclosed box in her room. She's also really affectionate and clawing things. Is this normal? Could she still have more kittens?

Secondly, i've had a brief look at the kittens and they have fleas - a fair few of them! Is there anything I can do right now? Also, how long until the umbilical cord stumps fall off? they're a bit long and I'm worried they will get caught on something.

any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

first of all, well done for taking her in and keeping her and the kittens safe. the litters i've had here, i've always felt lumps for a while after they have given birth. it's always been due to feeling her 'insides' rather than more kittens. that doesn't mean though that this will be the case here so please keep an eye on her for contractions without any kittens arriving.
mine have all been affectionate after having kittens - seems to be normal.
as for the fleas, you can use frontline spray from the vet on kittens from 2 days old. i believe this is the only flea treatment that can be used at that age. use a cotton wool ball to wipe the treatment onto the kittens rather than spraying it directly on to them. please get them treated asap as fleas easily kill small kittens. i know as i lost a whole litter due to a previous owner not treating them. don't worry about the umbilical cord. it shouldn't be a problem.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Okay a point at a time and thank you for taking in these kittens and mum.

a) the lump was probably her bladder or womb and it's now gone down. Unless she is actively pushing she's fine - she may experience a few after twinges and they can make her pant and look uncomfortable but they won't last long and she should settle quickly.

b) fleas - you need to pick off as many as you can see NOW. Then tomorrow (and I mean TOMORROW) you need to get to a vets and get frontline SPRAY (you may need to take the kittens and mum in with you) - this usually not for use until 2 weeks but I believe that if you spray it on a cloth and wipe it over the kittens it's okay BUT ask the vet first (I might be imagining it). Other wise keep picking off the fleas. Fleas bites can kill kittens very very quickly - they cause severe anaemia in young kittens so it is very important to get them treated. 

c) she could have more kittens - sometimes kittens come along up to 24 hours after the start of birth. If she seems unwell or it pushing for more than 20 mins it's off to the vets with her. She could have a kitten stuck. She could also just be cleaning herself up.

d) stumps fall off by a week old - they dry and shrivel very quickly. 

e) affection and clawing - she's trying to feel at home, she will 'kneed' with her paws and purr as the kittens feed. It's normal.

Make sure she is dry, warm and her box is in a safe place, probably darkened and out of the way. Don't disturb her too much until you are sure she is settled and trusts you. She will need to eat A LOT. Try to keep it to wet food only, no milk, no raw eggs (the white isn't good for them), kitten food will have a higher calorific content. Give her fresh water. She will need to toilet at some point too, make sure you don't put the tray too near her box.

EDIT: CG beat me to it - 2 days on Frontline not 2 weeks so treat both kittens AND mum tomorrow. 

If you are keeping mum, dont let her out until after she is spayed she can get pregnant again VERY quickly. Even if you aren't keeping her don't let her out.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Seems like she has everything under control.
Cannot help you with your questions, but I have no doubt some of the breeders or rescuers will be online shortly, who can answer your questions.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Well done for bringing this girl into your home and congratulations on the arrival of three babies.
Cats will occasionally stop labour for several hours especially if they have been disturbed so it is possible that she could have another kitten. Watch for signs of her beginning to push - don't let her return to the nest outside but keep her where you are able to keep an eye on her. She will be licking herself to keep clean as there will be some discharge after kittening and this isn't necessarily a sign that she still has a kitten remaining. If she hasn't given birth within the next 24 hours but you still feel there is something left inside take her along to a vet for check up. If you tell them that she is a stray who gave birth in your garden they may not charge for the appointment - not all vets are the same on this.
The umbilical cords will drop off within about 10 days and shouldn't cause any problems as they do shrivel up quite quickly.
The fleas need to be treated as soon as possible as they pose a serious risk to the kittens health - you will need to ask your vet for a suitable treatment. Mum will also need to be wormed.


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## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

thanks so much everyone, my partner and I are going to try to pick off as many fleas as we can right now and get the frontline tomorrow (well today as its early morning here in Australia). I remember reading that you can give kittens baths with soap to remove fleas, which sounded strange but i wonder if hair conditioner would work? (this is how I get nits from my daughters hair). Is that an option or are the kittens too young? I know it sounds drastic but if the fleas are so deadly it might be necessary since I can't get to the vet for another several hours. I do have powder which I've used with my own cats before but it wasn't very effective, we switched to pills which we don't have right now. Would it be okay to get some and give them to the nursing mother? I also have nit combs if that's okay to use? I'm guessing mum has fleas as well so if i can treat her as well that would probably be an idea. 

At this point we've decided to adopt her (only third cat this year! We live in an area with a *lot* of stray cats) and look for homes for the kittens when they're old enough but to be quite honest, there are so many unwanted kittens here I have a feeling we will end up keeping them if we can - we need permission from the council to have so many cats. Argh! Anyway, thanks so much everyone and if there's anything else we should know that would be great. I'm a lifelong cat owner but this is the first time I've had a nursing mother and such young kittens. 

Oh and i think that might be right that she's just settling in and perhaps her grooming is flea related? Still, we're keeping an eye on her and we will take her to the vet if anything appears to be amiss.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Well done for helping this poor girl, and welcome to the forum, cannot help you on your questions but sure you will have a wide audience on this one and bags of advice.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Oliveaux said:


> thanks so much everyone, my partner and I are going to try to pick off as many fleas as we can right now and get the frontline tomorrow (well today as its early morning here in Australia). I remember reading that you can give kittens baths with soap to remove fleas, which sounded strange but i wonder if hair conditioner would work? (this is how I get nits from my daughters hair). Is that an option or are the kittens too young? I know it sounds drastic but if the fleas are so deadly it might be necessary since I can't get to the vet for another several hours. I do have powder which I've used with my own cats before but it wasn't very effective, we switched to pills which we don't have right now. Would it be okay to get some and give them to the nursing mother? I also have nit combs if that's okay to use? I'm guessing mum has fleas as well so if i can treat her as well that would probably be an idea.
> 
> At this point we've decided to adopt her (only third cat this year! We live in an area with a *lot* of stray cats) and look for homes for the kittens when they're old enough but to be quite honest, there are so many unwanted kittens here I have a feeling we will end up keeping them if we can - we need permission from the council to have so many cats. Argh! Anyway, thanks so much everyone and if there's anything else we should know that would be great. I'm a lifelong cat owner but this is the first time I've had a nursing mother and such young kittens.
> 
> Oh and i think that might be right that she's just settling in and perhaps her grooming is flea related? Still, we're keeping an eye on her and we will take her to the vet if anything appears to be amiss.


Go for using the nit comb until you can something from the vet - I wouldn't risk using any over the counter products on a nursing cat and kittens.


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## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

thanks everyone. i just tried picking out some fleas and using the comb but neither seemed the work; the comb isn't catching the fleas but rather just directing them to a different place, and when i try to pick them off the kittens kick and cry and then the mother gets upset and starts trying to snatch them off me. Also I'm worried about hurting the kittens as they are so small and thrashing about. I'll keep trying though, maybe tweezers would help as I can't get a grip in the fleas to pull them off. I hope they'll be okay!!

edit: tweezing isn't working either nor is my partner holding them while i try to pull the fleas off, and mum is getting more and more agitated. I don't know what to do


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

if you wet the comb with warm water it might be more effective (on dogs/pups i use warm tea tree water but don't think it'd be safe for young kits)

if you can get to the vets when they open then there isn't need to panic too much- it isn't like you're planning on leaving it a week or anything!

must say, i admire you for taking this little family in! :thumbup:
and just so you know before people get mad- forum rules say kitten and momma pics are necessary once everyone's settled! :


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## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

oh yes i saw from my reading that pics are required!! my partner has stumbled upon a home remedy of rubbing wheat flour onto the babies to "dry out" the fleas (starve them i guess?). We figure it's not going to do any harm so we might as well try it, and then try to comb them out again. The kittens are so precious, three tabbies and one is dark whereas the other two are ginger; a strong ginger and a pale blonde.

(*Disturbing animal abuse so avoid if you don't want to see*) 
When I was a younger, my relatives found a stray cat and a huge litter of kittens living under the house and so they called the RSPCA, but the mother ran off so they took the kittens and told us explicitly that they don't give them any food besides the standard adult food so in effect, they were going to take the kittens and if we didn't catch the mother in time ourselves they would starve. Since we couldn't catch mum, I can only assume that's what happened so after that I am pretty adamant about not giving them up to any animal welfare agency. Cats are seen as an expendable nuisance and unless it's a dedicated cat rescue, they don't seem to care at all    in Australia, we don't have spay and release programs for ferals and very few (if any) no-kill cat shelters. It's really awful. Predictably, everyone who works in or volunteers in a cat shelter ends up owning many, many cats! Personally I feel that the government should offer 1-5 years of free spaying since the biggest feral cat problems seem to be in low-income areas. If they did that the problem would become much less, in my opinion anyway!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

spid said:


> Okay a point at a time and thank you for taking in these kittens and mum.
> 
> a) *the lump was* probably* her *bladder or* womb *and it's now gone down. Unless she is actively pushing she's fine - she may experience a few after twinges and they can make her pant and look uncomfortable but they won't last long and she should settle quickly.
> That's what I thought - it'll take a while to shrink back down
> ...


Hope she and her kittens do well - and well done for taking her in, a lot of people would have left her to struggle. You have got excellent advice from the people on here - esp re: fleas - small kittens become anaemic and die very quickly form flea infestation.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Also change her bedding once she's treated and either throw away the current bedding or wash it hot - 60C.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Oliveaux, I would not recommend bathing such young kittens, they can get chilled when they are wet and could easily die, as it not always easy to get them warm again. Also, I would not use conditioner on them, as it is full of chemicals which could possibly be toxic to cats/kittens. 

Best, as others have said, to get the right stuff for the purpose, i.e. Frontline spray, from the vet, and put some on cotton wool and stroke it on the kits fur. 

Sounds as though you have a much worse problem with neglected, abandoned and feral cats in Oz than we do in the UK, though there are areas of poverty in the UK where cats are routinely NOT spayed or neutered by their owners, leading to hundreds, possibly thousands, of unwanted kittens being born every year. Many of them end up in Rescue Shelters, but then they end up being full up. 

For people claiming Welfare Benefits in the UK there are voucher schemes funded by some national cat welfare charities, which pay the vet's fee for the spay or neuter. In spite of this some people still don't bother:mad2: I would like to see a national campaign here on TV publicising the voucher schemes and also to see them widened to include people on low incomes who in many cases have less disposable income than some people on Benefits. :frown:


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Can you try combing the kittens whilst they are feeding, rather than lifting them away from mum. I wouldn't b]put corn flour or anything on them - mum won't like the smell and may abandon them, may ingest the flour cleaning it off the kittens and it isn't good for them. If you really can't get any off, even with a dampened comb leave it until you can frontline mum and kittens.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

lymorelynn said:


> - I wouldn't risk using any over the counter products on a nursing cat and kittens.


All flea and worm prouducts are over the counter here...

What state are you in Olive?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

spotty cats said:


> All flea and worm prouducts are over the counter here...
> 
> What state are you in Olive?


Ah, didn't know that. You may be the best one to offer advice Spotty cats


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Well done for helping this girl and her kittens.

Frontline SPRAY can be used on kittens from 2 days old, spray one pump onto cotton wool and wipe on kittens tummies and between back legs, avoiding the cord area as that will hurt.

For now until you get the SPRAY, if you dampen a cotton wool ball with warm water and wipe this will stop fleas from jumping so you can pick off.


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## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

thanks everyone, we got a big pack of frontline since we will need to do our other cats too . . . $80!!! A bit of a shock!! We'll need to wash all the linens and treat the sand in the garden and everything >.> 

Anyway, everyone is doing well and i'll upload some pics in a minute! Thanks so much for all of your advice. I would never have known fleas could be such a problem to tiny kittens otherwise.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

Oliveaux said:


> thanks everyone, *we got a big pack of frontline *since we will need to do our other cats too . . . $80!!! A bit of a shock!! We'll need to wash all the linens and treat the sand in the garden and everything >.>
> 
> Anyway, everyone is doing well and i'll upload some pics in a minute! Thanks so much for all of your advice. I would never have known fleas could be such a problem to tiny kittens otherwise.


hi, is the frontline the spot ons or the spray. i believe it is only the spray that you can put on tiny kittens not the spot ons.


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## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

this one is the spot on but the vet said it would be fine and the packet says its suitable for nursing mummy cats. Apparently it passes through the milk to the kittens and protects them that way (???) which i thought was strange but i suppose the vet knows what they're talking about.


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

Oliveaux said:


> this one is the spot on but the vet said it would be fine and the packet says its suitable for nursing mummy cats. Apparently it passes through the milk to the kittens and protects them that way (???) which i thought was strange but i suppose the vet knows what they're talking about.


sorry, i took it you was going to put it onto the kittens. i look forward to seeing and hearing all about them and mommy cat of course


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## Kotanushka (Oct 25, 2013)

kodakkuki said:


> if you wet the comb with warm water it might be more effective (on dogs/pups i use warm tea tree water but don't think it'd be safe for young kits)


Tea tree is poisonous for cats! A cat is not a dog.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Kotanushka said:


> Tea tree is poisonous for cats! A cat is not a dog.


which is why i clearly stated it's what i would do for a *dog*. i'm well aware cats are not dogs thanks, and since i state in posts something is done by my Dogs, or to my Dogs i don't need you to continually remind me they are not the same.


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## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

I called the vet again just to check and it actually passes to the kittens from oils in the fur (makes much more sense!!)

as promised, here are some pics of the itty bitty kitties!




























sorry for the initially huge pics!!


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Ah they are lovely :001_wub::001_wub:


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Mum cat is a real beauty!:001_wub: The kits are very cute!:001_wub:


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Little sweeties :001_wub: Mum looks lovely too :yesnod: Hope all continues to go well.
It's a good idea to weigh them every day - look for around 10g increase in weight - so you can make sure that they are growing well. Digital kitchen scales are great for the job.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Lovely kittens.

What state are you in? I may be able to find a vet or rescue to help you get mum and the kitts neutered, vaccinated etc. before placement. Depending on where you live desexing, microchipping and vaccinating before rehoming is law.


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## Zhari (Dec 27, 2013)

Beautiful mom and kittens and don't apologize for huge pictures, the bigger picture of such tiny angels the better in my opinion.


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## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

gosh I didn't even think to weigh them but they all seem to be healthy, they've opened their eyes now and have started standing (kind of). I'm in Australia so I don't know if there are any organizations that can help with that here, though I was going to start making calls next week. We're low income earners, my partner and I, so I know we can at least get a discount.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Oliveaux said:


> > I'm in Australia so I don't know if there are any organizations that can help with that here, though I was going to start making calls next week.
> 
> 
> Spotty Cats is also in Oz - I believe she was offering to try and help you


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## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

oh gosh i didnt realize!! i'm in Western Australia, I believe that cats need to be desexed and microchipped by 12 weeks old here. 

If I could pose another question (cos it just never ends with newborn kittens apparently!!) today Mum has started moving the kittens around to unsafe places. I think my toddler upset her by wandering into the room (I feel terrible in retrospect, we should've been more careful) and I don't know what to do. She's trying to make a nest under my bed which is a hard, cold floor and partially broken definitely not safe for tiny babies. Is there any way to get her happy in her old nest? Right now my partner has put her and the babies in our walk-in closet with the door closed but she's going to need food, water and the litter box. I'm at a loss! and kicking myself!!


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## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

I meant to ask before, its been very hot lately; do the kittens need any extra water or do they get everything they need from mum's milk?

edit: ive got some new pics but i need to resize them!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

The babies should get as much as they need from mum's milk but we don't have the high temperatures here in the UK that you do in Oz so I wouldn't like to say for definite. How old are they now? Maybe a little young for starting to lap up water so you would have to give it by bottle 
Mum's sometimes do like to move their babies even if they haven't been disturbed so don't beat yourself up too much  If she is happy in the wardrobe could you leave the door open a little for mum to be able to get in and out? You could try moving them back to the original nest but in my experience this doesn't work and mum will only move them again.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Domestic cats originated in the deserts in the middle east & Egypt, so I don't think you need to worry about the heat. They should get everything from their mother, but she needs access to as much food and water as she wants. She might be trying to make a nest on a relatively cold floor as she is too hot.

If you are happy with her in the closet that wll be fine, so long as you keep her supplied with food, water & the litter tray - and make sure your toddlers can't get in.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Don't worry about the heat unless mum is panting, I keep a fan in the room when it's over 35 not directly on the kittens just to cool the room a little. Or I move them into the room with air conditioning, covering their box with a blanket so mum stays nice and cool, it's ok if she comes out the box to cool down - kittens are very hot cuddled up on mum.

Will contact my friends in WA and see what I can find for you for their vet work. Are you near Perth or further out?

ETA: I'm told SAFE Perth will help you http://www.safeperth.com.au/ They have several branches and if you're not near should know someone in your area.


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## Oliveaux (Jan 1, 2014)

Thanks everyone. Mum was happy in the wardrobe for a bit but I had to do some tidying up as we have a rent inspection coming up and she's moved them again! this time to the laundry cupboard but once the dryer goes on it will be noisy so she will probably move them from there as well! What a pain! She seems unsettled generally im not sure why, we think she might be in heat since she keeps trying to escape the house and is being very affectionate. 

I'm in regional WA (closer to Bunbury) but we can travel if need be. There's an animal shelter here that I could talk to though I'm sort of reluctant to give the kittens up to a shelter in case they euthanize animals that aren't adopted after a certain time period. :


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

You may right about her coming into heat again, so be very careful about keeping her contained. Can you shut her in the bedroom? 

I'd contact SAFE first and go from there, they are super busy so best to do that sooner rather than later. If you go with a kill shelter, kittens stand a better chance than adults, but nothing is certain and they will have a limited time. 
You may be able to foster and rehome them yourself as well.


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