# Madem of a foal



## Yummylab (Jan 18, 2010)

Hiya i usually post in the dog section but also deal with horses, a horse has given birth to a foal which has been staying in one the fields that my friend owns. The actually owner hasnt done anything with this foal and is now 3 -4 weeks old. We have all been in and out the field to get her use to us. Im thinking of buying the foal which will be m first foal. Tonight though I stroked her head which she was absoutly fine with but then she put her ears back and turned her back on me like she was going to kick me!!! I did think how rude lol but just wondered if anyone else experienced anything like this? Any information would be great, going to buy a halter this weekend to start that trainning side of things, could be a long weekend!!!!


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## Fluffed (Jun 5, 2011)

Yummylab said:


> Hiya i usually post in the dog section but also deal with horses, a horse has given birth to a foal which has been staying in one the fields that my friend owns. The actually owner hasnt done anything with this foal and is now 3 -4 weeks old. We have all been in and out the field to get her use to us. Im thinking of buying the foal which will be m first foal. Tonight though I stroked her head which she was absoutly fine with but then she put her ears back and turned her back on me like she was going to kick me!!! I did think how rude lol but just wondered if anyone else experienced anything like this? Any information would be great, going to buy a halter this weekend to start that trainning side of things, could be a long weekend!!!!


If I were the owner, I'm not sure I'd want someone handling my foal. You say you're going to buy a halter and start 'training' it, please, please don't without the owner's knowledge and consent and then get some expert advice on what to do. Is the owner actually looking after the mare and foal?

You don't sound as though you know an awful lot about horses, please correct me if I'm wrong? So is it really a good idea to be handing a foal, never mind thinking about buying one? Foals are not easy, straightforward or cheap. If you are absolutely set on buying this foal and are sold it, please get some expert help and look at what the foal will cost you over the next few years.


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## tonette (Dec 28, 2008)

I agree don't start handling the foal without contacting the owner first and also the foal is a baby it doesn't need a lot of handling yet, just to be with it's mum , we have to be so careful what we do with foals and youngsters because if we should do anything wrong this could effect the horse for the rest of its life horses have very long memories and also if they lose trust in us humans it can take a long time to get it back some times never, and then the horse is known as a bad horse...... I am not saying that you are going to do anything wrong but my own experience is that foals should only be handled by experienced people, sorry I know your heart is in the right place, if you think the mare and foal has been neglected then the best thing you can do for them both is to report it to the

RSPCA In your area - rspca.org.uk 
or

world horse welfare, this used to be ILPH World Horse Welfare: Contact Us

By reporting it to either of these then you have done the best you could for them both, but first check have they got water? is the mare underweight, is the foal suckling? what is causing you to worry? above all if you are concerned contact either of the above and explain what your concerns are, they will talk to you and if need be come out and check on them


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## Fluffed (Jun 5, 2011)

Can I just say, please don't report to the RSPCA - they very often know absolutely nothing about horses to the point of actually causing more harm than good. If there is a problem with the pair, then use the WHW, they're brilliant.


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

Ditto all of the above - please don't trespass on someone else's land. 
Foals can be left just to bond with mum for the first 6 months and have very little handling and still be totally fine, most of mine never get halter training until a month or so after weaning - so around 7 months old and I have never had a problem. 
Mares can get very foal proud and can be dangerous if you ignore any warning signs especially with strangers - you could get seriously hurt if you are not familiar with the mare.
The foal is turning it's butt on you as it does not trust, know or respect you and it WILL kick and it WILL hurt, I have seen foals take out peoples teeth and break limbs - do not underestimate how strong they are!! - you are also training it to do that as it sounds as you know little of how to discipline a foal - yes it's cute now but not when full grown!!!
If you put a halter on a foal and get it wrong it can flip over backward and really hurt itself and become totally head shy and be very hard to train in the future - also if it buggers off and you can't catch it it could break its neck if the halter gets caught - halter training is best done in a stable to start with with knowledgeable people who know the animals and have built up a relationship with them and done weeks of preparation before putting the halter on.
If you buy this foal, however well meaning, you need to be aware it will cost you around a grand a year minimum to keep a baby until it is 4, when it is then old enough to break, and that is if you have all the facilities needed - and IF it doesn't injure itself in the meantime which baby horses tend to be vet bills with feet, I have a 3yr old at the mo who is one such ditsy baby and will most likely be a pasture pet for the rest of his life - can you afford that?
You also can't keep one baby on it's own you need another.

The list is a long one but bottom line is you would not like it if someone came in your garden and started playing with your dogs, putting them on leads and messing about with them without your permission.
If the horses are neglected and have no food/water and are starving then by all means report them to the BHS, don't bother with the RSPCA!, otherwise leave the horses alone as they are not yours!!!!!!


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## Fluffed (Jun 5, 2011)

AlexArt said:


> baby horses tend to be vet bills with feet,


*snigger* Very true!


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## Hetty (May 7, 2011)

We bought our foal from a breeder that does handle their foals a lot when they are still with their mums, to do their feet, to worm, to get them used to things. My horse is now 13 months and we had him since he was 6 months old and it is an amazing experience. I have ridden horses and competed with them in the past and broken in two horses so it was not all new to me but the last few years I've only been training dogs and occasionally been riding. 

The advantage of starting with a foal is that you know what you get. Zeb doesn't have any behavioural problems or learned bad manners as that is what we have been working on from the first day we had him. He is not a vet bill on feet, as we bought a decent foal. Any horse costs a lot of money, no matter what age. Maybe I can not ride him yet, but I do plenty of fun things with him like walking with him, clicker training him, playing with him, or just brushing and looking after him. We enjoy spending every moment together and he is a dream come true. The barefoot hoof trimmer comes out every 6 weeks, he has now been castrated, he gets the best of food, hay and haylage and I'm saving up for some wheels for him so we can go walkies in the woods or the beach......

I think to halter train this very young foal would be a bit soon. They will have plenty of that later on in their lives, just let them grow up a bit first and enjoy the time with their mums. Also halter training a foal is not that difficult with a clicker so you will have that done in no time when the foal is older without any stress to mother or foal. Now it is going to be a bit stressful for the mother when you do things to her foal and might be dangerous as well as the mother might panic and get aggressive as she feels the need to protect her foal. Just wait until the foal can be weaned and then start you training after you have bought her. Good luck with your hopefully new member of your family.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Rude?! Its a baby horse what do you expect :laugh:

Some adult horses are like that I wouldn't be too worried about a baby one doing it at that age. My YO had a foal a couple years ago and no one was faffing around with its head besides putting the headcollar on him near the start and aside from that he was allowed to get more confident with people before they started sticking their hands in places he couldn't see (like on his face, remember where a horse's eyes are).

He was handled kindly from day one (people going to look over the stable door and sticking hands out in case he wanted to sniff/nuzzle and so he got used to hustle and bustle and loved nothing more than a bum scratch when he worked out how to get one)  He was a cheeky so and so and gave everyone a good running around (he's 2 now), its like puppies they don't know what you want until you show em and even then don't necessarily want to oblige 

When I say he had a halter on from the start, it wasn't to lead him he wasn't properly lead trained at that age at all but so he could be guided out to the paddock with Mum from the stables if he didn't follow her straight on, and so he could be gotten hold of should he have any troubles and the vet need to get hold of him.

I should probably mention, my YO had had horses since she was a child and had a couple of foals accidentally (buying a horse which turned out to be pregnant ) and she knew exactly what she was doing with this boy, he had been planned for for a couple years etc.

Some don't get handled at all until they are older and don't turn out any worse for it. You just have to remember they're baby animals and if you dive straight in you might get a few kicks and bites and might instill a few issues in them. They aren't the most trusting of animals to start with compared with say dogs and any mistakes you make if you are unable to put right are going to be passed on to other people to sort out.

Foals are quite a big responsibility, I don't know if they're something I would ever take on for fear of buggering them up. The time and energy that went into the foal my YO still has is unreal.


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

Hetty - you made me laugh!! - "he is not a vet bill on feet as we bought a decent foal!!!" - I don't think horses understand that if you pay more for them they are not to hurt themselves!!!!!:001_tongue::w00t: I've found with the 40 odd that I've bred over the years that the more expensivly bred the more of an accident magnet they are!!!! - some are great and never do anything stupid, some are just thick and will do anything to hurt themselves!!!

Clicker training is great for dogs and animals that aren't ridden - have seen a few gg's that do really well with clickers IF not ridden. I have seen so many, even ones that do high school dressage, that are clicker trained throw their rider as they have stopped mid gallop/movement etc as they have heard a click, even if intended as gg has done something right, and stopped for a reward/treat - as basically all a clicker is doing is telling them to stop whatever they are doing to receive a reward - hysterically funny to watch I have to say, but not so fun for the rider and not great to look at if competing!!!! 
Also training to treats can be a disaster with some youngsters and actually teach them awful habits and the idea that people are mobile treat machines - I have never used treats and always have very well mannered respectful babies/adults!!! Also youngsters really don't need hard feed - just vitamins as you run the risk of OCD etc and excessive weight on growing joints - they are supposed to look like lanky teenagers that have been glued together for the first few years!!

General common sense handling is the best way to go and just getting a bond built up so when it comes to being ridden they are totally fine with everything thrown at them, I handle mine from day one, feet/mouths etc so they are used to everything except the actual halter training - they tend to have such short concentration spans it is hard to get them to focus for more than a few minutes for it to be productive without exceeding their patience levels until they are at least weaning age and even then 5mins is as good as you can expect - the trouble with having a brain the size of a peanut!!!!!!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Very interesting re clickers, someone on a horse forum I use is beginning to use this method what you say makes perfect sense re sudden stopping!


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## Hetty (May 7, 2011)

Clicker training doesn't make your horse suddenly stop to get food. It helps them think about the goal of the exercise and it marks the right behaviour. Fully trained behaviours are not reinforced with a clicker any more, it's only to explain new behaviours to an animal. An animal knows perfectly well which click is meant for him. They do not respond to other people clicking, or the training has not been set up correct. My animals only respond to me clicking and not to other people clicking. Also it would not make the animal stop but the animal come to the trainer to get his reward. So if you would be clicking during a gallop it would not make it stop in its track......

My horse has very very good manners as he knows he will only get food after a click and doesn't feel the need to ask for it before as he doesn't get it for free. In fact he can do a lot of behaviours we also want later on when I am riding him or just basic manners. For a lot of learned behaviours he doesn't get clicked + rewarded for any more, just a stroke or verbal praise. I think clicker training is a lot nicer way to train animals than the old fashioned methods.

Buying a good foal makes sure I do not have to worry about some hereditary problems or lameness because it has not a very good conformation. Accidents can always happen and not just to foals, but at any age. That is not a reason to call them vet bills on feet.


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## Fluffed (Jun 5, 2011)

AlexArt said:


> Hetty - you made me laugh!! - "he is not a vet bill on feet as we bought a decent foal!!!" - I don't think horses understand that if you pay more for them they are not to hurt themselves!!!!!:001_tongue::w00t: I've found with the 40 odd that I've bred over the years that the more expensivly bred the more of an accident magnet they are!!!! - some are great and never do anything stupid, some are just thick and will do anything to hurt themselves!!!
> 
> Clicker training is great for dogs and animals that aren't ridden - have seen a few gg's that do really well with clickers IF not ridden. I have seen so many, even ones that do high school dressage, that are clicker trained throw their rider as they have stopped mid gallop/movement etc as they have heard a click, even if intended as gg has done something right, and stopped for a reward/treat - as basically all a clicker is doing is telling them to stop whatever they are doing to receive a reward - hysterically funny to watch I have to say, but not so fun for the rider and not great to look at if competing!!!!
> Also training to treats can be a disaster with some youngsters and actually teach them awful habits and the idea that people are mobile treat machines - I have never used treats and always have very well mannered respectful babies/adults!!! Also youngsters really don't need hard feed - just vitamins as you run the risk of OCD etc and excessive weight on growing joints - they are supposed to look like lanky teenagers that have been glued together for the first few years!!
> ...


Great post. :yesnod:

Do you use foal slips? I've only ever been involved close hand with one foal - when I was 13 or thereabouts - its owner put it in a foal slip pretty early on and the foal wore it on the whole time it and its dam were turned out. I can't remember what age the foal was, but it was well before it was weaned.


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

Fluffed - I've never used a foal slip, and would never recommend leaving anything on a youngster at all, I don't even leave them on my adults as have seen one clydie mare that got her headcollar stuck on a feeder in a nearby field and broke her neck trying to free herself!
I get mine used to being handled every where from day one just by stroking scratching etc and always leave them to come to me when invited, I never force them to interact - natural curiosity always gets the better of them! I had one filly one year that the mare was totally obsessed with and would not allow her near us, she would just stand and watch the other foals talking to us, it got to 2 days before weaning, so 6/7months old, and she finally came upto us and let us scratch her all over, and even pick up her feet the next day, within a week after weaning she was halter trained - takes all of 5 mins - and was leading - so just shows you they do learn just by watching others!

I always ask for nice manners - a kick/bite or rear is met with an over done sharp intake of breath as if it really hurt which stops them in their tracks, they do it again and I chase them away as their mum would - they only do it once or twice and that is it! I can't afford bad manners at any age as I often keep a few entires and they must have impeccable manners especially when they end up over 3/4 of a ton!, and respect me totally, it's too dangerous when handling stallions around in season mares if they don't respect you it would just end up in injures for all!! I have never had to resort to man handling them or hitting though and would never recommend either as it just proves to the horse how weak we really are!!


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## Melx (Dec 23, 2009)

Its not quite the same but I have a TB I had to retrain basically from scratch. Luckily she is a very kind mare at heart but did occasionally try her luck (she is 16.3 and I am 5ft2 so had to get the manners to a tea before anything else!!) One thing I have never done and doubt I would ever do is treats for rewards when teaching. There is only one time my mare gets treats, and I have just started this when she is well behaved after ridden. This is only because she isnt a fan of school work so when she behaves she gets a treat, if I was for learning purposes I would not do it but as she is already trained in every respect now it is a reward for good behaviour, not for learning something new.

I just think anybody who owns horses should be able to create a bond and a get a decent, well behaved horse without relying on food as a reward. Treating horses is also a good way of biting to start and I have experienced this with horses I know. They try and nip to express that they want a treat and then eventually it ends in agressiveness until they get their own way 

There are some horses I know who will try and search your pockets for treats while walking acorss the field, for someone under confident this would be terfifying. My mare has never tried searching anyones pockets and when she does occasionally get a treat its something random and nice for her instead of just the same thing day in day out.

Everyone has different opinions on the subject but I feel the same about things like spurs, repeatedly hitting with a whip when it doesnt want to move. Any horse owner should be able to train their horse and ride them and get then to be responsive without the use of painful aids or treats.

Just my opinion!! 

AlexArt, Couldnt agree more with everything you have posted


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## Yummylab (Jan 18, 2010)

Hiya, thanks for the replies and the advice. The mare and foal arent being neglected the person who owns them works long hours so the person who owns the field helps him alot with the mare and foal. The owner so to go ahead if I wanted to do anything. Just 2 clear those points up sorry I wasnt very clear at first. I would have a good network of people who would help me if I had a problem with the foal which I am lucky for. I have thought it alot and even though I have been round horses for many years I have decided after looking in to it and hearing from other peoples advice that Im not going to take on a foal as I dont feel I could give it enough time and also havnt got enough experience for this kind thing yet. Its more important for the foal to go to a good home which can support her potentional


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## Fluffed (Jun 5, 2011)

AlexArt said:


> Fluffed - I've never used a foal slip, and would never recommend leaving anything on a youngster at all, I don't even leave them on my adults as have seen one clydie mare that got her headcollar stuck on a feeder in a nearby field and broke her neck trying to free herself!


Yes, I don't like leaving headcollars on and although foal slips are meant to be put on so they are very tight and can't be caught on anything, there are never any guarantees. I didn't like seeing something so tight on such a youngster either.



Yummylab said:


> Hiya, thanks for the replies and the advice. The mare and foal arent being neglected the person who owns them works long hours so the person who owns the field helps him alot with the mare and foal. The owner so to go ahead if I wanted to do anything. Just 2 clear those points up sorry I wasnt very clear at first. I would have a good network of people who would help me if I had a problem with the foal which I am lucky for. I have thought it alot and even though I have been round horses for many years I have decided after looking in to it and hearing from other peoples advice that Im not going to take on a foal as I dont feel I could give it enough time and also havnt got enough experience for this kind thing yet. Its more important for the foal to go to a good home which can support her potentional


Good for you recognising the problems with young horses.

This owner doesn't sound massively responsible though..........


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