# Do breeders get their cats tested for Feline Aids & Leukemia?



## ejrogers (Sep 7, 2009)

Hi, this may sound like a strange question and I apologise if so but I know nothing about breeding!
The reason for my question is that 4 wks ago I bought a kitten from a registered BSH breeder. Since I got her however she has been ill and it has just come to light that she has Giardia and T Foetus poor thing. She is not responding to the first line of treatment (panacur) so the vet has suggested her immune system may have been lowered by something like Feline Aids or Leukemia.
So, my question is, if she does have either of these how would she have gotten them? Do breeders test their cats for these before breeding?

Thanks


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

She'd have got it from Mum IF she has it at all. Whether we test or not rather depends on circumstances. If you go out to stud, virtually all stud owners insist on tests for these, though the tests only actually tell you that there was a 90% probability that the cat didn't have it six weeks ago (I think it's six weeks, it's certainly only 90% reliable). Breeders using their own studs would probably not test their own queens.

Are you saying she has tested positive for both giardia and T. foetus??? T. foetus won't respond to Panacur.

Liz


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## ejrogers (Sep 7, 2009)

Hi,
Yes unfortunately she has tested positive for both Giardia and T Foetus, but as well as that also Feline Corona (I'm not entirely sure what that is until I see the vet tonight). So she's not a well kitty.
The vet was hoping that she would have responded to Panacur at least slightly if it had cleared the Giardia but nothing has changed at all.
From what I have read on the internet it seem T Foetus is more aggressive and less well known, particularly in terms of treatments available. I am seeing the vet tonight to discuss treatment but also to have her bloods taken to test for Feline Aids and Leukemia just in case.

The breeder owned the queen but only realised she was pregnant after she bought her, so the original breeder would have owned both the queen and the stud so possibly unlikely to have been tested.

Sorry for all the questions, but do you know if there are any symptoms to Feline Aids or Leukemia? I know I will get the test results in a few days but I'm so worried now.
She's not showing any symptoms other than the diarrheoa - she's eating well, has tons of energy etc..just the constant and very regular diarrheoa..

Thank you
Emma


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## LittleTyke (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh gosh, how awful for you! I know this will be at the bottom of your list of priorities right now (your poorly kitty quite rightly being at the top!) but I think it's very important that you contact the breeder you got your kitty from and find out more details of where the queen came from.

It seems very odd that a registered and reputable breeder would sell a queen to someone not knowing she was pregnant (for starters a pregnant queen would be worth a great deal more!) and also if your kitty does have either of the above the orriginal breeder needs to know to stop her continuing to breed until the source is found.

I'm so sorry that what should be such a magical experience has turned so sour for you. Fingers and toes and arms and legs all crossed that kitty makes a swift and full recovery! But seriously, I think some disscussion is needed with the breeder! Put it this way, if I found out any of my kitties became seriously ill three weeks after leaving me I'd be offering to collect the kitty with a full refund, pay all vet bills, or offer a replacement kitten!

Good luck!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

What an awful experience for you and your poor kitten 
The feline coronavirus that you mention can often be caused by having a large number of cats living together and sharing litter trays. In most cases it is not a severe disease but (not wishing to worry you on this) very, very occasionally it can develop into something much more serious - FIP Feline Infectious Peritonitis. 
I hope all goes well at the vets and your kitten is well again soon.
I am concerned that the breeder has sold you such a poorly kitten and was not aware of any problems before she was sold to you. You need to get in touch with the breeder as soon as possible. If your kitten has FoCV, Feline Aids or Leukemia they need to know.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Most breeders' cats will have a coronavirus titre, that isn't one you need to worry about - unless of course it develops into FIP but if it does there is nothing you can do and the chances of that happening are quite low. I agree you need to contact the breeder. I also agree with those in the other thread who said that if the breeder gave you kitten cover this should be covered. But both giardia and T. foetus are treatable.

Liz


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## ejrogers (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your replies, I really appreciate it and I feel a lot more informed now but still very worried.
I have contacted the breeder already to let her know the outcome of the test results because I also thought it was important she knows, and if my kitten does (I pray not) turn out to have Aids or Leukemia then I will definitely be insisting on talking to her more. So far she has not responded to me, but I only contacted her yesterday when I got the results.
We did have the free kitten insurance from the breeder but this only covered us for the first 28 days and we are now beyond that with our ongoing insurance not convering it.
I'm just hoping that it will be a case of a few different treatments for the Giardia and the TTF and then she'll be sorted, nothing more serious.

Heres fingers crossed..
Thank you again for all your help
Emma


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The breeder owned the queen but only realised she was pregnant after she bought her


I'm afraid this speaks volumes to me. Do you have all the paperwork including a registration/transfer document?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The feline coronavirus that you mention can often be caused by having a large number of cats living together and sharing litter trays


I know it's nit picking but there isn't a virus on this earth which can be 'caused' by any number of cats living together. You can't create FCoV out of thin air. It exists and just like any virus with any species it would spread more easily and be more difficult to deal with in crowded situations.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

havoc said:


> I know it's nit picking but there isn't a virus on this earth which can be 'caused' by any number of cats living together. You can't create FCoV out of thin air. It exists and just like any virus with any species it would spread more easily and be more difficult to deal with in crowded situations.


Nit picking accepted - I apologise that I did not put that in quite the right terms.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

In answer to the OP when you take a girl to stud you have to get a 'snap test' and this tests the girls for HIV and Leukemia. The stud owner should periodically do the same for her boy. If you own both then I suppose you don't have to but it would be sensible to.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

i personally would have thought the vet would have automatically te4sted for fiv and felv before vaccinating. also have you got insurance with the kitten and have you made use of it?
if this is the case you should let the breeder know


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

jenny armour said:


> i personally would have thought the vet would have automatically te4sted for fiv and felv before vaccinating. also have you got insurance with the kitten and have you made use of it?
> if this is the case you should let the breeder know


I've never known a vet to do this.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Nit picking accepted - I apologise that I did not put that in quite the right terms.


Oh gosh - don't apologise please  I know I was being pedantic.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

spid said:


> I've never known a vet to do this.


surely it would make sense to test first otherwise if the cat already has felv then they are wasting an injection vaccinating the cat. 
i suppose they think if the queen or stud is covered then the kitten should be ok?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I've never known a vet test kittens first either but I've only ever vaccinated kittens from tested mums and my vet knows my protocols. It must be much the same for most breeders. I've also got it in the back of my mind that kittens born to an FeLV positive mother will almost certainly have the disease so maybe they don't survive to get to vaccination stage.


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## ejrogers (Sep 7, 2009)

Hi, thank you for all your replies, I really appreciate it.
Is FeLV short for Feline Aids or Leukemia?
My kitten had the blood test last night for both of them so we should find out in a day or two.
I'm just praying that she doesn't have either of them and that we can just get on with treating the Giardia and T Foetus.
Would she be showing any symptoms if she had either of them? She is 14 weeks and is showing no symptoms other than the diarrheoa - ie shes eating well, gaining weight, being crazy kitten like etc, however she is very underweight (900g at 14 weeks)..
Does this sound like a kitten with either of these?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

FeLV - *Fe*line *L*eukaemia *V*irus
FIV - *F*eline *I*mmunodeficiency *V*irus commonly referred to as feline aids.

Shame your vet doesn't do the in-house snap test as you could have had the results in about 20 minutes.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

How old/experienced is this vet of yours?

From your other posts I gather these latest tests are because your kitten failed to respond to treatment for unidentified but suspected parasites. To me having these tests is excessive ( and unnecessary ) given the circumstances. In some cases a longer course or a different antibiotic etc is required before any results are seen. Also in the end it turned out there were quite a number to deal with as well!

She was also unaware of the treatment for TF. Strange.

ETA Just noticed the information is in your first post and not a different thread! It was Panacur for suspected Giardia.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> unidentified but suspected parasites


Oh my word. I had assumed the words 'come to light' meant the appropriate tests had been done. If not then I agree completely that this does start to smack of testing for profit. I did suspect it at the mention of FeLV/FIV testing to be honest and am particularly unimpressed at any vet claiming it takes days to get results when a simple (and perfectly profitable) in-house test exists.


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## ejrogers (Sep 7, 2009)

Its all so confusing and I do want to avoid having her tested for things that are unnecessary. For one its expensive (and not covered by my insurance now) and not to mention its stressful for the kitten!
Just to clarify - the stool tests have been done already for Giardia and TF which came back positive. She has not responded to Panacur to clear up the Giardia so the vet suggested we have her tested for FeLV and FIV to make sure she doesn't have these and thats the reason shes not responding to Panacur.
Thinking about it now it does seem excessive but its too late now, the tests have been done and paid for and I'd rather be sure.
Assuming she is clear of FeLV and FIV, I am waiting for her to speak to a specialist to find out about most appropriate treatment for the TF. I have now been given Metronizadole to try for the Giardia in the meantime. 
She is talking about the Ronidazole treatment that some of you have mentioned but needs to check whether my kitten is suitable for it because shes so tiny.

It all seems to be taking longer than necessary and I just want to get on with treating her!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Giardia doesn't always clear quickly with Panacur but it usually does eventually. I've heard of up to a month of treatment being necessary in some cases.



> have her tested for FeLV and FIV to make sure she doesn't have these and thats the reason shes not responding to Panacur


This doesn't make much sense to me. Both of those diseases lead to a compromised immune system but I don't understand why this would make any difference to treating parasitic problems.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Just to clarify my understanding of the situation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The stool test result came back on Friday BUT the Panacur had been prescribed before this to no avail. Unclear as to dose length. Metronizadole has commenced post-test results. Hope this is more effective.

I agree with you that for one reason or another ( including lab error ) that the treatment of your little one has been very protracted to say the least!

I do hope she's suitable for the Ronidazole since apparently it's the only effective treatment for TF. However it _may_ subside once the Giardia is under control. I do hope this is the case.

Hope she's much better soon.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

havoc said:


> Giardia doesn't always clear quickly with Panacur but it usually does eventually. I've heard of up to a month of treatment being necessary in some cases..


Precisely. Furthermore considering the test results later clearly revealed there were other pathogens which could potentially be responsible for the symptoms I'm at a loss to understand why the vet still went ahead with these tests, the necessity for which no longer existed in the light of these facts! I really would like to heat her reasoning for this. It's completely beyond me!


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

why is she not covered now, surely it is all to do with the same thing, or did you go to the vet after the insurance ran out?


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## ejrogers (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm quite cross now that from what I'm hearing it sounds like the blood tests were unnecessary and I have added to Inca's stress by taking her to the vet one time that she possibly didn't need to.
Anyway, thats done now so I'm going to focus on her ongoing treatment (assuming it doesn't show anything up).
Yes the vet gave me a 7 day course of Panacur before the stool tests came back as she suspected Giardia and as the test results were delayed by the lab she thought it was better to start a treatment than leave it another week.
By the time the test results came back positive for Giardia and TF we had completed the Panacur course but to no effect. I've since learnt on here and on the internet that Panacur doesn't cure TF, so its possible the Giardia has been cleared but we can't see it because of the TF.
But anyway I've been given Metronizadole to combat any remaining Giardia while we wait to hear about the suitability of the Ronidazole (I also hope she is suitable for it, fingers crossed).

Do you know if you can give Metronizadole and Ronidazole at the same time or will we have to finish the course of Metronidazole first??

In terms of the insurance, we had the 28 day free insurance from the breeder and then we had arranged for our own insurance to start from the day that the free insurance finished (we had arranged this before we picked her up).
The free insurance obviously covered us for the initial 28 days of treatment but we are now beyond that and our own insurance policy has a clause that says it won't cover anything that starts within the first 14 days of the policy or any pre existing condition (as most insurances do).
Either way, this was a pre existing condition before our own insurance started so anything now is not covered, including these very expensive stool / blood tests.
The money is not really the issue, its just annoying particularly when some of it is potentially unnecesary!

Thank you to everyone..


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## draculita (Jun 15, 2008)

"She is 14 weeks and is showing no symptoms other than the diarrheoa"

If she is 14 weeks now and your insurance has already run its 28days course, that means she was only 10 weeks old when you purchased her? Thats far too young.

Panacur would have to be given for at least 8 days to kill off Giardia and then the diarrhea would not settle straight away because of the poor balance of bacteria in the gut.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

havoc said:


> Oh my word. I had assumed the words 'come to light' meant the appropriate tests had been done. If not then I agree completely that this does start to smack of testing for profit. I did suspect it at the mention of FeLV/FIV testing to be honest and am particularly unimpressed at any vet claiming it takes days to get results when a simple (and perfectly profitable) in-house test exists.


I once went to a vet who tested for profit. Instead of giving my girl an antiobiotic, he went down the route of FeLV/FIV. All tests were negative, of course, as I expected them to be. I ended up taking her to an emergency vets who immediately prescribed antibiotics and within days, she was as right as rain. I quickly kicked that useless lump of a vet into touch.


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