# Putting paws in poop...



## Nessicle (Jan 11, 2010)

My kittens are both using a litter tray well albeit Dexter is much better at it than Ambrose. 

However, both of them keep putting their paws in the poop while they're trying to cover it up so I end up having to babywipe their paws constantly. Is there anyway I can help them with this and will they grow out of it and get better at covering their mess as they get older??


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## rachael (Jul 30, 2008)

Hm..

Are you using clumping or non clumping litter? Are you putting enough in the pan? Is it possible that you aren't putting enough litter in? Maybe try a larger and deeper litter pan so they have more room to dig?

Also maybe a different diet would result in less runny poo?


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## Nessicle (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks Rachael yeah I went out and bought one of those hooded litter boxes so that the litter couldn't go all over the floor. I put about half a bag in of litter - just doesnt seem to go very far that stuff lol. 

me and my partner worked out that the kitten food we're giving them at the moment is a meat variety and I think that's the stuff that's giving them runny poo's so have incorporated some dried food with it (still got half a box left so don't want to waste all the wet food) to try and solidify it up a bit. Also want to get them on to dry food eventually anyway so good time to incorporate it i think. Have put the duck pouches in the bin - think that's the culprit of the runny poo's!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

DOn't put unopened pouches in the bin - give them to a cat rescue!


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## rachael (Jul 30, 2008)

Yes either donate the pouches or use them to ween your kitties onto dry food. You don't want to just all the sudden change their diet... That would result in a lot of messy poo!


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Actually canned food is much better for them than dry food. If they have loose stool it could be from parasites, or the food is too rich, you could try a different brand, or a food specifically for kittens. What are you feeding? 

How old are they?

As for stepping in the poop, make sure they have enough room to maneuver in the litter box. They'll get better at it as they grow.


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## rachael (Jul 30, 2008)

lorilu said:


> Actually canned food is much better for them than dry food.


As far as I've seen this is a very debated subject. The plus of canned would be that there is more fluid in the food and it helps cats stay hydrated especially if they don't drink much. On the other hand, chewing on dry food helps keep teeth clean and strong. If you find the right brands and know your ingredients, you can get the same nutrition from either type of food (correct me if I'm wrong).

If I'm not mistaking, too much fluid can result in runny poo.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

rachael said:


> As far as I've seen this is a very debated subject. The plus of canned would be that there is more fluid in the food and it helps cats stay hydrated especially if they don't drink much. On the other hand, chewing on dry food helps keep teeth clean and strong. If you find the right brands and know your ingredients, you can get the same nutrition from either type of food (correct me if I'm wrong).
> 
> If I'm not mistaking, too much fluid can result in runny poo.


Yup....as far as I'm aware either type has the right nutrition in it ..you just need to get the right one for your kitty. Tilly loves meat...I think most cats do, but it certainly doesnt agree with him so as I'm the one cleaning hi litter tray out he gets dried food....and it's true, it is so much better for their teeth.
He kept missing the tray and getting his paws in it too so I bought a tray a couple of sizes up and he does fine now..I quarter fill it and as long as I clean it after every use he's ok, cats are rally clean animals and as far as I know really dislike getting dirty. The only trouble i have with Tilly is burying it, he refuses, i guess he's thinking I'm gonna clean it anyway so whats the point lol
Clare xx


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## Nessicle (Jan 11, 2010)

spid said:


> DOn't put unopened pouches in the bin - give them to a cat rescue!


I fished them out of the bin  it never even crossed my mind to donate them - I'm ashamed of not being very eco-friendly :blush2:


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## Nessicle (Jan 11, 2010)

lorilu said:


> Actually canned food is much better for them than dry food. If they have loose stool it could be from parasites, or the food is too rich, you could try a different brand, or a food specifically for kittens. What are you feeding?
> 
> How old are they?
> 
> As for stepping in the poop, make sure they have enough room to maneuver in the litter box. They'll get better at it as they grow.


They're 8 weeks old, the people I got them from didn't worm them but that's on the list for this weekend - worming fun time!

I'm feeding them kitten pouches but instead of fish I've given them meat variety this week and the food is much richer and runnier. The main culprits seem to be the lamb and duck which I've decided not to give them, they're fine with chicken and turkey which I'm mixing in with dry to try and wean them off the wet food slowly - I know it's bad for their little tums to suddenly switch food so defo avoiding that one.

They've got a massive hooded litter tray but I think they're just not very good at covering poo and avoiding stepping in it - although the runniness of it isn't helping.

It's not mega runny but sloppy if you know what I mean? like a cow pat??


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## Nessicle (Jan 11, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> Yup....as far as I'm aware either type has the right nutrition in it ..you just need to get the right one for your kitty. Tilly loves meat...I think most cats do, but it certainly doesnt agree with him so as I'm the one cleaning hi litter tray out he gets dried food....and it's true, it is so much better for their teeth.
> He kept missing the tray and getting his paws in it too so I bought a tray a couple of sizes up and he does fine now..I quarter fill it and as long as I clean it after every use he's ok, cats are rally clean animals and as far as I know really dislike getting dirty. The only trouble i have with Tilly is burying it, he refuses, i guess he's thinking I'm gonna clean it anyway so whats the point lol
> Clare xx


Yeah Ambrose is lazy about covering his poop but bless little Dexter he goes back to try and cover it for him it's so sweet!

I had to babywipe Ambrose's back paw to get the poo off it and he seemed really ashamed and didn't want to come for cuddles or strokes which he usually does. He's fine this morning though very loving and cuddly!

I'm hoping that by 50/50 wet and dry this week, then 25/75 wet and dry next week I can solidify their poops up a bit. It's just so smelly and messy when it's loose poor little boys!


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

rachael said:


> As far as I've seen this is a very debated subject. The plus of canned would be that there is more fluid in the food and it helps cats stay hydrated especially if they don't drink much. On the other hand, chewing on dry food helps keep teeth clean and strong. If you find the right brands and know your ingredients, you can get the same nutrition from either type of food (correct me if I'm wrong).
> 
> If I'm not mistaking, too much fluid can result in runny poo.


Dry food does nothing for a cat's teeth, that is a fallacy. And kibble specks may, in fact, be more likely to stick to the teeth than wet. Most cats don't chew the food anyway, one crunch and a swallow.

Too much fluid does not lead to diarrhea. Cats need a LOT of water in their diet. If the food is too rich, or has an ingredient that the cat is sensitive to, or is a new food, those can cause diarrhea, as can parasites.

A probiotic should be given when changing foods.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Nessicle said:


> They're 8 weeks old, the people I got them from didn't worm them but that's on the list for this weekend - worming fun time!
> 
> I'm feeding them kitten pouches but instead of fish I've given them meat variety this week and the food is much richer and runnier. The main culprits seem to be the lamb and duck which I've decided not to give them, they're fine with chicken and turkey which I'm mixing in with dry to try and wean them off the wet food slowly - I know it's bad for their little tums to suddenly switch food so defo avoiding that one.
> 
> ...


Yes, I know what you mean. At eight weeks old there are a lot of things that can cause diarrhea in kittens. Parasites being the main issue. They need to be checked over by your vet and given a dewormer and flea treatment (no OTC products)

Cats are obligate carnivores, which means their bodies are made for meat. It may be the brand you are feeding, not wet food in general.

However, whatever you decide to feed them, you should know that it is not true that dry food helps their teeth.

Cats rarely chew their food at all, they don't have chewing teeth. They might crunch a kibble once or twice, but that does nothing for the teeth and, in fact, the pieces (crumbs) are more likely to stick to the teeth than wet food.


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## Nessicle (Jan 11, 2010)

lorilu said:


> Yes, I know what you mean. At eight weeks old there are a lot of things that can cause diarrhea in kittens. Parasites being the main issue. They need to be checked over by your vet and given a dewormer and flea treatment (no OTC products)
> 
> Cats are obligate carnivores, which means their bodies are made for meat. It may be the brand you are feeding, not wet food in general.
> 
> ...


They have their vaccinations next Friday so I will ask the vet to worm and check them over - thank you for the advice!


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## rachael (Jul 30, 2008)

lorilu said:


> Dry food does nothing for a cat's teeth, that is a fallacy. And kibble specks may, in fact, be more likely to stick to the teeth than wet. Most cats don't chew the food anyway, one crunch and a swallow.
> 
> Too much fluid does not lead to diarrhea. Cats need a LOT of water in their diet. If the food is too rich, or has an ingredient that the cat is sensitive to, or is a new food, those can cause diarrhea, as can parasites.
> 
> A probiotic should be given when changing foods.


After doing some research online I found that there isn't much backing up the idea that dry cat food is good for cats teeth... It is said that technically crunching at dry food will help break away plaque, but the extent of this isn't great enough to be applauded over.

In the end, the dry vs wet debate really comes down to the owners preference. A lot of pet owners choose dry simply because it can be left out throughout the day and does not have a strong smell.

Though I agree that cats need to stay hydrated, it is still true that too much water can cause diarrhea... Or in most cases, looser-than-normal stool.

I'm fostering a cat now and I feed her wet food and dry food. Some days I don't give her any wet, but I usually give her one can and leave out as much dry as she wants during the day (She's nursing 5 kittens so she gets to pig out)... I've found that the days where I don't give her wet food her poo isn't nearly as runny.. There are many factors to this.. It IS possible that she just doesn't do well with wet food.. But I've tried several brands and it's the same result.

On the other hand, I feed my cat (not the foster) only dry food. She never has runny/loose poo.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

rachael said:


> In the end, the dry vs wet debate really comes down to the owners preference. A lot of pet owners choose dry simply because it can be left out throughout the day and does not have a strong smell.
> 
> Though I agree that cats need to stay hydrated, it is still true that too much water can cause diarrhea... Or in most cases, looser-than-normal stool.
> 
> ...


It is not the extra water from the canned food that causes loose stool, it is the fact that since she only has the food every now and then, her body is not used to it, it's too rich.

The body really can't have "too much" water. It just gets peed out.

However, as you say, every cat is different in how s/he does with various foods. I have three cats and they are all three each on completely different foods from one another.

I do not mean to offend, but I think free feeding is gross. Every time the cat eats out of the dish, more bacteria is left (from saliva) to grow on the food. Ick.

Just sitting there, the food collects bacteria, and gets stale.

People who free feed should at least: never put fresh food over food that has already been sitting out.

Throw away uneaten food at the end of the day, and use a clean dish to put more food down. Even if all the food gets eaten, never put fresh food into a used dish.

Food sitting in the dish all day leaves a residue on the dish that gets rancid, and allows bacteria to
grow.


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## rachael (Jul 30, 2008)

lorilu said:


> It is not the extra water from the canned food that causes loose stool, it is the fact that since she only has the food every now and then, her body is not used to it, it's too rich.
> 
> The body really can't have "too much" water. It just gets peed out.
> 
> ...


She's very used to wet food as I give it to her ALMOST everyday. I've had her for over a month now and every now and then there will be a day where I only feed her dry.

Also, the body *can* have too much water. It's called Water intoxication (also known as hyper-hydration or water poisoning). It's a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that is a result of the normal balance of electrolytes in the body being pushed outside of their safe limits by the over-consumption of water. (Water intoxication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Too much of *anything* will kill you. For most things it's extremely unlikely that you will die, but in the end it is possible to overdose on anything and everything.

If you drink lots of water you are less likely to become constipated and if you drink even more water it is likely that your poo will be a little more runny than it would otherwise.

It very well may not be the case in this situation, but it could be a contributing factor.

As far as leaving food out all day goes I don't see a problem with it. I leave the food indoors and wash the bowl out every morning and put fresh food in.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Cat's won't over drink ( they have no thirst drive) but DO need to take 90% of their water with their food - as they are designed to do. Wet food doesn't give runny poo per sey. A mouse in the wild is 85% water and wild cats don't have constant runs. Normal wet food is also about 85% water - so perfect. Dry food leaves a cat in a state of permanent dehydration - hence poos will appear more solid - but this is only masking the symptoms of why the cat has runny poos not curing it. It could be that particular food doesn't agree with the cat, worms, etc. Just changing to dry isn't the solution. If we as humans have the runs we don't say *don't drink *we say *drink more*. With the runs it is especailly MORE important to stay well hydrated. Once the runs are cured by all means then change to dry if that is your want, but please don't use dry to cure the runs.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

rachael said:


> Also, the body *can* have too much water. It's called Water intoxication (also known as hyper-hydration or water poisoning). It's a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that is a result of the normal balance of electrolytes in the body being pushed outside of their safe limits by the over-consumption of water. (Water intoxication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
> 
> .


okay okay, but that is not likely to happen to a cat unless you hold the cat and force feed him water for hours.

Cats need a lot of hydration. Reducing water intake in a cat with loose stool is just asking for trouble, because loose stool and diarrhea will dehydrate a cat even more.

Some cats can't tolerate certain ingredients. The canned foods you feed may contain one or more things that bother her.


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## rachael (Jul 30, 2008)

I'm not saying water intoxication will happen to a cat and it probably has never happened. I was just replying to you when yous said that it's not possible to have too much water. When you said that you said "the body" can't have too much water.. you didn't say "cats" can't have too much water. I'm not trying to argue.


What she's explaining isn't diarrhea, it's just stool that is a little more loose than it would be otherwise.. I was just brainstorming and I never expect my advice to be taken without confirmation from a vet. It's quite obvious that I'm no professional.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

yeah, I guess we did get a little off track. 

Sorry for the hijack Nessicle. I had to go back and check for the original question which was how to keep them from stepping in their poop when they bury it.

I don't like hooded boxes, and my recommendation is to get two large litter boxes, with plenty of room for maneuvering.


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## rachael (Jul 30, 2008)

Why don't you like hooded boxes?


Personally I think they're great. A lot of cats prefer pooing in a more private atmosphere like the one created by a hooded box.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

rachael said:


> Why don't you like hooded boxes?
> 
> Personally I think they're great. A lot of cats prefer pooing in a more private atmosphere like the one created by a hooded box.


Hooded boxes hold in odors. Cats have very sensitive noses. As do I. They also limit the amount of room a cat has to maneuver in there.

Also they must be a real pain to scoop. I scoop four boxes four times a day. I can't imagine the extra work of having to take off four hoods, then put them back. Or having to squat and try to scoop through the opening.

Privacy can be created without having to deal with all that. A quiet low traffic area, a decorative screen in front of the boxes, a curtain hung.


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## rachael (Jul 30, 2008)

I only have one cat, Mikah, and she's a tiny little thing. She has plenty of room. I use a Tidy Cats litter box deodorizer that works wonders. Scooping is a breeze for me, but again, I only have one kitty.

For my foster kitty, Molly, I use a non hooded box. Her 5 kittens are just starting to poo on their own so I'm going to be constantly scooping. Also her body length is a little longer than my cat Mikah's. Molly likes to do her thing with the front half of her body outside of the box. I suppose she could do this with a hooded tray, but again.. Scooping with that would be a pain.. Even though her babies aren't using the box yet, Molly poos a lot more than my kitty, Mikah. Probably because she eats three times as much. ^.^


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