# Suggestions for a little 21 litre tank?



## magpie

I have a spare 21 litre tank that is looking very sad and empty at the moment. It used to house my brothers goldfish (for an impressive 8 months) before they came to live with my 2 baby blackmoors in my 200 litre tank.

Sooo, I'm wondering if there is anything that could happily live in this dinky little tank, as it somehow seems a shame not to be using it! 

Suggestions, anyone?


----------



## Animals548

well i hope you can fit all those fish in !


----------



## Guest

If you added a heater you could get some Microrasboras.


----------



## magpie

I had to google microrasboras - never heard of them before! 
They do look like lovely little fish though so a definite possibility, assuming I can find them somewhere... are they commonly found in your typical lfs? I can't recall ever seeing them before.

I probably should have said that I most likely _will_ get a heater, as I don't really want another cold water tank. And I have some White Clouds in my big tank anyways, but ta for the suggestion Fishyfins


----------



## Guest

I'll tell you what PM me with your location (just the general area) and I'll pinpoint some good aquatic stores for you. 

Microrasboras aren't too difficult to find however you probably won't find them in your average pet store, the best places to look would be the Maidenhead aquatic stores (a well known UK chain) and specialist aquatic stores such as the Waterzoo, Wharf aquatics, Shirley aquatics (there are two stores), Trimar, STM, Pier aquatics etc.


----------



## hazyreality

I would suggest 5-7 smallish fish, it doesnt really matter what they are - anything from platies to tetra's or guppies(just male or female would proberly be best because they breed so much!) Or maybe a Male and 2 Female Siamese fighters? a nice pretty easy going fish.

Maidenhead Aquatics and Waterzoo only do fish but I would like to add that we are 15-20 miles from the Waterzoo and one of the members of staff comes to us to buy his fish, with his dad now aswell. Wharf and Shirley Aquatics are tecnically not specialists as they also do reptiles(and a specialist only has one thing).

In general anyone who is a member of OATA(as we are) should be a pretty good retailer, as they are the fishkeeping governing body.

*Heidi*


----------



## Guest

hazyreality said:


> I would suggest 5-7 smallish fish, it doesnt really matter what they are - anything from platies to tetra's or guppies(just male or female would proberly be best because they breed so much!) Or maybe a Male and 2 Female Siamese fighters? a nice pretty easy going fish.
> 
> *Heidi*


The guppies and platies can all grow to a couple of inches, basically I wouldn't recommend stocking the tank with anything that grows bigger than around an inch.


----------



## magpie

Pleccy said:


> I'll tell you what PM me with your location (just the general area) and I'll pinpoint some good aquatic stores for you.


PM'd you!


----------



## hazyreality

Pleccy said:


> The guppies and platies can all grow to a couple of inches, basically I wouldn't recommend stocking the tank with anything that grows bigger than around an inch.


As long as there arn't too many of them, I can't see what difference it makes. So you have 8 Neons or 4 Platies - whats the difference? Its not as if at 2 inches they wont be able to swim around.
If you do length in inches x width in inches /10 that will give you the inches of fish you can have in that tank, then stock it with what you want, not something someone tells you to have.

*Heidi*


----------



## hazyreality

Fishyfins said:


> i have some microrasbora in a little nano right next me. wonderful little fish, cant parise them highly enough imo. i have some little tank bred Galaxy Rasbora (Celstial Pearl Danio) from a local dealer, pretty little things


We stock Pearl Danio's and they are pretty and busy little things.

*Heidi*


----------



## Guest

hazyreality said:


> As long as there arn't too many of them, I can't see what difference it makes. So you have 8 Neons or 4 Platies - whats the difference? Its not as if at 2 inches they wont be able to swim around.
> If you do length in inches x width in inches /10 that will give you the inches of fish you can have in that tank, then stock it with what you want, not something someone tells you to have.
> 
> *Heidi*


We need to know the tank's dimensions before though, I'm guessing the tank is around the 16" mark, remember that the volume will be before displacement.


----------



## hazyreality

Pleccy said:


> We need to know the tanks dimensions before though, I'm guessing the tank is around the 16" mark, remember that the volume will be before displacement.


Thats why I have just given the way to work it out because tropicals dont work on volume(unlike marines). Its just a rough guess that it would hold about 8 inches of fish. If it is a very shallow but long tank, it would hold more because of the increased surface area.

*Heidi*


----------



## Guest

hazyreality said:


> Thats why I have just given the way to work it out because tropicals dont work on volume(unlike marines). Its just a rough guess that it would hold about 8 inches of fish. If it is a very shallow but long tank, it would hold more because of the increased surface area.
> 
> *Heidi*


As you have suggested if the tank is long and narrow or very tall it will have a low surface area, putting restrictions on the size of the fish and how many you can stock. Larger fish will usually have a higher metabolic rate which means a greater demand for dissolved oxygen, this in turn means they need a larger surface area. You'll be surprised at the difference in oxygen demands between a fish that grows to an inch in length and a fish that can grow to twice that length.


----------



## hazyreality

Pleccy said:


> As you have suggested if the tank is long and narrow or very tall it will have a low surface area, putting restrictions on the size of the fish and how many you can stock. Larger fish will usually have a higher metabolic rate which means a greater demand for dissolved oxygen, this in turn means they need a larger surface area. You'll be surprised at the difference in oxygen demands between a fish that grows to an inch in length and a fish that can grow to twice that length.


I still do not think that it matters between an inch as long as it is not overstocked, that is what that calculation is for, and I belive that it is OATA that suggest that calculation, if they were talking about having 4-6 inch fish maybe!

*Heidi*


----------



## magpie

The tank is very weirdly shaped - its curved at the front and is longer at the top of the tank than at the bottom. Thus it has quite a good surface area, but I can't really give dimensions with any real accuracy which is why I only provided the volume. 
Its 15" high, varies from 14-16" in length, and varies from 8-9" in depth.


----------



## hazyreality

magpie said:


> The tank is very weirdly shaped - its curved at the front and is longer at the top of the tank than at the bottom. Thus it has quite a good surface area, but I can't really give dimensions with any real accuracy which is why I only provided the volume.
> Its 15" high, varies from 14-16" in length, and varies from 8-9" in depth.


On the smallest of your measurements it gives you 11.2 inches of fish which if you work on 8-10 inches you wll be in comfortably. So anything like 8-10 one inch fish(neons etc) or 4-5 two inch fish(platies etc) obviously that is full grown size not the size you nessesarily buy them at 

*Heidi*


----------



## magpie

hazyreality said:


> As long as there arn't too many of them, I can't see what difference it makes. So you have 8 Neons or 4 Platies - whats the difference? Its not as if at 2 inches they wont be able to swim around.
> If you do length in inches x width in inches /10 that will give you the inches of fish you can have in that tank, then stock it with what you want, not something someone tells you to have.
> 
> *Heidi*


For me, its not just a case of how many inches of fish will fit into my tank. I want to make sure that the species I eventually decide upon will be happy in there; so that the tinyness of the tank doesn't stress them out, so that they have enough room to be as active as they need to be, as well as making sure that I don't overstock. 
I'm sure that there are some 1" fish that would be happy in there, and there are probably other 1" fish that wouldn't. I'm trying to make sure that the requirements of the fish match up with the tank I have, which is why I asked for advice 
My White Clouds only grow to, what? 1.5-2" in length? But after having seen how active they are in my big tank, I'd never put them in the 21 litre.

I don't know, I'm all confused now!


----------



## hazyreality

magpie said:


> For me, its not just a case of how many inches of fish will fit into my tank. I want to make sure that the species I eventually decide upon will be happy in there; so that the tinyness of the tank doesn't stress them out, so that they have enough room to be as active as they need to be, as well as making sure that I don't overstock.
> I'm sure that there are some 1" fish that would be happy in there, and there are probably other 1" fish that wouldn't. I'm trying to make sure that the requirements of the fish match up with the tank I have, which is why I asked for advice
> My White Clouds only grow to, what? 1.5-2" in length? But after having seen how active they are in my big tank, I'd never put them in the 21 litre.
> 
> I don't know, I'm all confused now!


In which case I would suggest Siamese Fighers(1 Male and 1 or 2 Females or multipul females on their own) as they are slow moving and seem to prefer a smaller tank. Any of the little tetra's really, platies should again be no problem, nor should guppies. Would maybe not have danio's or barbs(especially tigers) as they are pretty boisterous. All of those fish would need a heater really.

*Heidi*


----------



## Guest

While a siamese fighting fish would be suitable I would stick with just one, platies are an active species and do benefit from a spacious aquarium.


----------



## magpie

Ok, thank you to everyone who has replied!

I quite like the idea of a male Siamese fighter, or I've also had male Endlers suggested as a possibility.
I've bought a heater and I've only just today started to cycle the tank, so I've got a bit of time to mull over my options!


----------



## Cage confused

if your getting siamese fighting fish, try not to get more than one in a tank. they can live okay with some other small fish, but even the females are territorial.usually they only stick with each other to breed. and if you have one male and 2 females, they will breed, and if there are male babies, the father will fight, usually to the death because the baby has no where to hide


----------



## hazyreality

Cage confused said:


> if your getting siamese fighting fish, try not to get more than one in a tank. they can live okay with some other small fish, but even the females are territorial.usually they only stick with each other to breed. and if you have one male and 2 females, they will breed, and if there are male babies, the father will fight, usually to the death because the baby has no where to hide


it is very unlikely that fighters will breed. if they manage to hatch babies out, the babies unless very very well looked after by humans will die when they are a few days old because as they are developing their laberinth gland, they take a first gulp of air and if the air is not the right humidity and temperature it will not develop and the baby will not survive. I don't think there are any problems with having babies that could fight with the dad. Also if the male makes the bubble-nest, the female is likely to destroy it. 
To me its crueler to keep one male fighter all on its own than to put a female with him, but everyone thinks differently.

*Heidi*


----------



## magpie

Well, being my usual fussy self I've been umming and ahhing for ages over this tank, and I've finally decided that I just don't like it. 
Its weirdly shaped, its very tall, it has a rather poor surface area and considering how little water it holds, it takes up quite a lot of space! But I've grown quite keen on the idea of a nice little tropical tank, sooo... I've bought a replacement! 

It's a bit bigger (about 28 litres) and is the standard rectangular shape (18x10x10 inches), which I much prefer! I've transferred the contents of the 21 litre to the new tank (filter, gravel, plants etc) in the hopes that the cycling process won't be knocked quite all the way back to square one... but I'm in no great hurry so I don't mind if I have to start cycling again from scratch.

In response to the siamese fighter discussion - If I were to get one I would definitely only get *one*. I've heard that males have to be kept with a minimum of three females coz they harass the females so much - and I certainly don't have room for four of them!
Having said that, I really do prefer the idea of a small shoal of really tiny fish, like the microrasboras that Pleccy suggested or endlers maybe


----------

