# Half check collar?



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I am very much still in the process of teaching Kilo to walk to heel on a normal flat collar and lead, which I will persevere with until we have mastered it.

The problem in the interim is that he will pull like train when excited or determined to get to something (like horse poo) and he is getting very strong. I stand still until the lead is slack or do multiple direction changes which does work, however I broke my back a few years ago and also had two lots of repairs to a repeatedly dislocating shoulder and I am beginning to return from walks with a very painful back indeed.

I am seeing definite improvements and happy that we are headed in the right direction as Kilo can walk very nicely at times, but was wondering whether anyone had any ideas of an interim measure I could take until we have a nice loose lead all the time. I was thinking a half check collar?

Please only post if you are going to recommend any non - punitive measures as I train purely using positive methods


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

IME a 1/2 check or even a full check won't stop him pulling. I would try a halti in one of it's various forms


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

can i ask why you are allowing him to pull if you want to teach him to heel?

if you need to get somewhere quick and don't have time for training, then I advise using a headcollar or harness so that he doesn't associate pulling with a normal collar.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> can i ask why you are allowing him to pull if you want to teach him to heel?
> 
> if you need to get somewhere quick and don't have time for training, then I advise using a headcollar or harness so that he doesn't associate pulling with a normal collar.


I don't allow him to pull me anywhere, I stand still until he returns to me and we begin the heel again...the problem is for quick trips from the car into work, going out to the car for work etc when we need to get there fairly quickly I don't have the time to train. I do put in several training sessions per day however and am dedicated to training him correctly so not seeking a 'quick fix'. He is a very exuberant, strong puppy who sometimes forgets his training.

May try a headcollar, but wasn't sure whether they could be used on growing dogs?


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

I bought a half-check for Scooter because apparently they don't damage a dog's neck fur so much, and any reduction on his pulling at the start of walks would be a bonus! He isn't a big-time puller but I've noticed a slight improvement since switching from the flat collar.

As the others say, it won't stop Kilo if he's really determined and your best bet to back-up his training would be a headcollar, like the Dogmatic ones.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

I just wanted to add - to take some of the strain and hopefully prevent any injuries! - it might be worth trying one of the bungee leads or attachments; might take the edge off.


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

Dogless said:


> May try a headcollar, but wasn't sure whether they could be used on growing dogs?


I'm fairly certain that when we first got a Halti, the instruction booklet said they could be used on puppies.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Dogless said:


> I don't allow him to pull me anywhere, I stand still until he returns to me and we begin the heel again...the problem is for quick trips from the car into work, going out to the car for work etc when we need to get there fairly quickly I don't have the time to train. I do put in several training sessions per day however and am dedicated to training him correctly so not seeking a 'quick fix'. He is a very exuberant, strong puppy who sometimes forgets his training.
> 
> May try a headcollar, but wasn't sure whether they could be used on growing dogs?


that's what I thought, but just wanted to check.  :thumbup:

If you are going to use a headcollar, I would advise using a dogmatic headcollar. They are similar to horse headcollars, they do not tighten around the muzzle or pull into the eyes so are comfortable to wear and the majority of dogs accept them.


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

I would try a gencon as you can adjust these when the dog grows.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> that's what I thought, but just wanted to check.  :thumbup:
> 
> If you are going to use a headcollar, I would advise using a dogmatic headcollar. They are similar to horse headcollars, they do not tighten around the muzzle or pull into the eyes so are comfortable to wear and the majority of dogs accept them.


No worries - I am not a 'quick fix' person particularly as I believe that you need a lot of time invested to achieve good results...I spend a LOT of time on training and manners 

Lots of people recommend the dogmatic, so may give it a go.....if I walk using that when I do not have the time to train, but use Kilo's normal collar and lead when I have plenty of time (need it with his determined streak!!) then hopefully I can wean him off the headcollar as his exuberance dies down and heel becomes more reliable?


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

When I don't have the time to train properly or I know I am going to be somewhere that is going to cause me problems I use a Gentle Leader with a bungee lead extension, works a treat.

A half check will do nothing to stop the pulling unless you use it in the same way as you would a normal check chain, so I would rule that out, especially for a young dog.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Jasper's Bloke said:


> When I don't have the time to train properly or I know I am going to be somewhere that is going to cause me problems I use a Gentle Leader with a bungee lead extension, works a treat.
> 
> A half check will do nothing to stop the pulling unless you use it in the same way as you would a normal check chain, so I would rule that out, especially for a young dog.


Thanks...am looking into headcollars, definately don't want to use it like a normal check chain - horrible things!


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

A half check chain is delivers the same punishment as a check chain, but it releases itself after your sharp pull so you don't continually strangle the dog. Not a positive method in my opinion.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Helbo said:


> A half check chain is delivers the same punishment as a check chain, but it releases itself after your sharp pull so you don't continually strangle the dog. Not a positive method in my opinion.


I have seen divided opinions and am erring towards a dogmatic headcollar now...or maybe another type of headcollar.

I most definately do not want to inflict discomfort / pain and potentially cause any injury to my dog.


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## Callie (May 6, 2010)

We are in the same boat and when not using the normal collar I use a canny colllar which works wonders and Izzy(8 month retriever) is getting used to it and walks well on it.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Callie said:


> We are in the same boat and when not using the normal collar I use a canny colllar which works wonders and Izzy(8 month retriever) is getting used to it and walks well on it.


Glad to hear that


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## I love springers (Dec 3, 2010)

I bought a half check collar for one of my springers after being advised that it would work but i don't think it made much diffence she still wanted to be a mile in front and the walks where never enjoyable...I changed to a halti :thumbup: and it made such a diffence that i look forward to taking her out now....I would defo say try a halti / headcollar..Hope you sort out the problem


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## flur pur (Apr 25, 2010)

I reccommend the halti/head collar aswell they are fab, have used them for years with great success.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I love springers said:


> I bought a half check collar for one of my springers after being advised that it would work but i don't think it made much diffence she still wanted to be a mile in front and the walks where never enjoyable...I changed to a halti :thumbup: and it made such a diffence that i look forward to taking her out now....I would defo say try a halti / headcollar..Hope you sort out the problem


Thank you - am hoping to use it as an interim and to eventually have a nice heel on a normal collar.....I will keep plugging away with the training :thumbup:


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

flur pur said:


> I reccommend the halti/head collar aswell they are fab, have used them for years with great success.


Thank you...am looking at head collars.


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## Nina_82 (Sep 26, 2010)

After trying a halti head collar, a halti harness, a gencon and a half check collar, we now have a dogmatic and it's by far the best in my opinion.

The gencon actually cut into my dogs face and drew blood as she pulled so hard to get to another dog. The halti ended up in her eyes and the half check was just strangling her and she wasn't even bothered!

The halti harness I found to be quite flimsy and wouldn't have held her back if she lunged.

Dogmatic gets my vote as it does not tighten as the dog pulls and it is very easy to use.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Nina_82 said:


> After trying a halti head collar, a halti harness, a gencon and a half check collar, we now have a dogmatic and it's by far the best in my opinion.
> 
> The gencon actually cut into my dogs face and drew blood as she pulled so hard to get to another dog. The halti ended up in her eyes and the half check was just strangling her and she wasn't even bothered!
> 
> ...


It's certainly looking like a dogmatic from all the research I have been doing...how adjustable are they as Kilo is obviously growing so I will go through several!


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

sorry i'm not going to be much help here as i didn't have to do much training with Tummel on the lead i just stopped and pointed to where i wanted him and said the command when he was there, still working on keeping him there but he knows what and where it is. I always thought full checks were fine if used correctly(like slip leads) and know a few people who have them for training.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I just don't want to use a choke chain; but each to their own! Kilo is great a lot of the time, but when he gets really exuberant or really wants something he forgets everything he knows and goes deaf!! 

I think I will get a headcollar for the 'a to b' no time to train occasions and persevere with training a correct heel on flat collar and lead the rest of the time


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Mine have half check collars for the simple reason that it is all I could find that would fit them! They would not stop a dog from pulling at all and if the dog pulls backwards or you try to shift him, it is likely to come off.


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## Nina_82 (Sep 26, 2010)

Dogless said:


> It's certainly looking like a dogmatic from all the research I have been doing...how adjustable are they as Kilo is obviously growing so I will go through several!


The actual bit that fits round the face is not adjustable at all, although the neck strap does up like a belt buckle so can be tightened or loosened.

Guess that is a slight downside of them as they are a bit pricey!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Mine have half check collars for the simple reason that it is all I could find that would fit them! They would not stop a dog from pulling at all and if the dog pulls backwards or you try to shift him, it is likely to come off.


Thanks - I have decided on a dogmatic headcollar; they are out of stock of nearly all sizes until March though


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## Nina_82 (Sep 26, 2010)

Dogless said:


> Thanks - I have decided on a dogmatic headcollar; they are out of stock of nearly all sizes until March though


I got mine from a girl on here who runs a pet shop, she had sizes in stock that were out of stock on the Dogmatic website.

Her name on here is SDPetcare, might be worth a pm to her?


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Nina_82 said:


> I got mine from a girl on here who runs a pet shop, she had sizes in stock that were out of stock on the Dogmatic website.
> 
> Her name on here is SDPetcare, might be worth a pm to her?


Thanks - very useful


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Nina_82 said:


> I got mine from a girl on here who runs a pet shop, she had sizes in stock that were out of stock on the Dogmatic website.
> 
> Her name on here is SDPetcare, might be worth a pm to her?


Ordered one off her website - thank you so much


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## Nina_82 (Sep 26, 2010)

Dogless said:


> Ordered one off her website - thank you so much


No problem, hope you like it too


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

After Flynn had his hip replacement it was imperitive that he didn't pull when out with me, until then he'd pull sometimes and not others. I will admit that the 6 weeks crate rest calmed him a great deal but now he doesn't pull at all - I believe it was because I have been so strict about it, where as before I would accept that he'd pull now and then.
Anyway I got him to stop pulling by not taking him out if he was at all excited - i'd just leave his lead on in the house and when he was calm i'd take him out. If he gets even a little bit excited he doesn't go out - i've all the time in the world as I don't have regular walking times, so he just has to wait. 
Now when I put my coat on if he whines I take it off and do something else instead.
I used to follow him around putting his lead on but not now, he comes to me and he has to be calm - I can hardly believe how good he is now and the two of us go out and have a nice calm walk. I also insist that I go out of the door and gate before him, which he now knows and waits til I do.
I now have a dog that walks by my side, stops when I do and is a joy to walk, well that's until he see's another dog but that's a new training thing as he lost his doggie manners by not going out and seeing dogs for a long time - you can't have it all can you, lol?


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## ChatterPuss (Sep 4, 2010)

I have started taking my springer pup to puppy classes and last night we were learning heel walking on a loose lead. This was tought by treats alone. very small treats given every few steps when the pup walked at heal. My husband took him for a walk tonight and he usually moans about him pulling, but he was briliant. It's amazing how quickly they learn with the correct training. :thumbup:


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

We do go to puppy classes and he has learnt not to pull when he is calm :thumbup: Unfortunately, in some situations I can't wait until he is calm or put the time into training correctly; he comes to work, so situations like getting from the car in to the building etc which he gets excited about need to be managed without him ever being allowed to pull on a flat collar and lead. I already go in very early so that he is settled for when others arrive, but there is a limit to what time I get up as Kilo can be very, very wilful and I like to make sure that I have adequate time and correct frame of mind to train.

I don't mean to sound lazy...I do put in a few training sessions per day


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I know what you mean about the time issue - I used to take Flynn out even when he was excited and think once he gets down the road he'll have got the excitement out of him. It was true in a way but the walks were never as good as they are now and at 57kgs it was a real struggle!

Other than a halti - which I have used on Flynn - it's a tricky situation!  He hated it at first but soon associated it with his walks. I still use it occasionally if we go somewhere different.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Malmum said:


> I know what you mean about the time issue - I used to take Flynn out even when he was excited and think once he gets down the road he'll have got the excitement out of him. It was true in a way but the walks were never as good as they are now and at 57kgs it was a real struggle!
> 
> Other than a halti - which I have used on Flynn - it's a tricky situation!  He hated it at first but soon associated it with his walks. I still use it occasionally if we go somewhere different.


I think that too sometimes and it does improve. We spent 30 minutes going hardly anywhere this morning, which was frustrating but fine by me as I had the time to give to the training.

I went to puppy class today (where we did appallingly....so frustrating when Kilo carries out the commands at home and work first time 98% of the time!!) and the trainer there said she doesn't like haedcollars and recommended a half check...I had to explain that I wasn't being lazy but wanted to ensure that the training was done correctly!


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Well the dogmatic came today, size 2 fits perfectly...so the rate Kilo's growing means that it will last at least a few weeks 

Haven't been for a walk in it as he is tired after his day at work as usual but he didn't hate it too much when I put it on him so we'll see what tomorrow brings


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Quick update..the Dogmatic is great for the 'short on time to train' moments and I am very pleased that I purchased it...but I didn't use it all weekend as had plenty of time to train and Kilo did fantastically with keeping the lead loose. Used my half hour break at work this morning to train as well....and yet again a lovely loose lead...it is as if something has 'clicked' with him :thumbup:.

(And then we saw a squirrel.....)


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## beltabout (Dec 11, 2010)

It sounds to me like you know what you are doing and what you want you want as an end product. :thumbsup:

I teach mine on a slip lead, I hold the slip lead high up on the head under the ears. I position the dog on the side that I want him to walk and hold the lead above the head with the nearest hand and hold the loop of the lead in the other hand. I walk and keep the dog so that it is walking behind my lead leg with the head only in front of me. I only use "heal" when the dog is healing, I turn into the dog and nudge him with my leg nearest to him this encourages him to look at me and to stay behind me when walking (change the pace also). If the dog pulls I will stop and wait until the pulling stops (the slip lead will tighten but I do not pull so this does not become a battle) and then as soon as he relaxes and stops pulling I walk on in a different direction, I do not allow the dog to take me for a walk, I take them and we go in the direction I want and at the speed I want. 

As you have said I often am out ages and go no where I have a drive about 20 meters long and some days I never leave the drive. This stage only lasts a few days a really wilful dog may take a week or two.

I find that by using "heel" when walking in the correct place and not as instruction to walk at heel means the dog learns the command faster.

Once he is walking well i introduce the other side turn and about turn, i do not use treats just "heel" and "good dog".

Nick


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

beltabout said:


> It sounds to me like you know what you are doing and what you want you want as an end product. :thumbsup:
> 
> I teach mine on a slip lead, I hold the slip lead high up on the head under the ears. I position the dog on the side that I want him to walk and hold the lead above the head with the nearest hand and hold the loop of the lead in the other hand. I walk and keep the dog so that it is walking behind my lead leg with the head only in front of me. I only use "heal" when the dog is healing, I turn into the dog and nudge him with my leg nearest to him this encourages him to look at me and to stay behind me when walking (change the pace also). If the dog pulls I will stop and wait until the pulling stops (the slip lead will tighten but I do not pull so this does not become a battle) and then as soon as he relaxes and stops pulling I walk on in a different direction, I do not allow the dog to take me for a walk, I take them and we go in the direction I want and at the speed I want.
> 
> ...


That is what I have been doing, although have been using treats as I have a very food motivated dog!! I am giving treats less and less frequently now though, although sometimes surprise him with one so he works hard on the chance of food being given!!

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I know what I am doing as he is my first puppy but have researched a lot and do know what end - state I would like to achieve. I do know that I will not tolerate any behaviour that I do not want him to display when he is an adult.

Kilo is exceptionally wilful so the Dogmatic has been great in the few short days that I have had it for when I just don't have the time to train adequately - due to be in a meeting etc. I don't use it at all when I know that I am in the right mindset and have all the time in the world to cover metres few


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Mine have half check collars for the simple reason that it is all I could find that would fit them! They would not stop a dog from pulling at all and if the dog pulls backwards or you try to shift him, it is likely to come off.


 Half Check collars that are fitted correctly cannot come off if the dog pulls backwards as it will tighten in just the way a full check collar will. If it can come off you have the rings meeting, in which case is not acting as a half check.

A half check is a training aid, not a way to stop the dog pulling. You are the one that stops the pulling by using the collar correctly. The lead should never ever be tight apart from that fraction of a second when you are correcting. As soon as it stays tight you are strangling your dog and it will pull against you. i have always taught my dogs to walk on the lead with the use of either check or half checks. I much prefer half checks. It is not a quick fix, it doesnt work on its own but it is a heck of a lot kinder than fiddling around for months allowing the poor dog to pull like a train without understanding it has an option, You are not yanking at your dog, you keep the lead just slack and you correct the dog just the amount if needs as an individual so with a small sensitive dog you might just be tightening your fingers for a moment and with a big strong bolshy dog you might be using a fair amount of strength.

It might be considered old fashioned but I think the only reason that other methods have been employed is because your average pet owner finds it impossible to get their timing right so the dog is confused and never learns to walk properly.


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## beltabout (Dec 11, 2010)

Dogless said:


> I have a very food motivated dog!! I am giving treats less and less frequently now though


With a food motivated dog clicker training may work. Not something I have experience with but some of the lads I know rate it very highly with some of their dogs.
Nick


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Thorne said:


> I'm fairly certain that when we first got a Halti, the instruction booklet said they could be used on puppies.


I emailed Halti and Dogmatic to ask if they can be used on my 6 month old (he was at the time) GSD and they said yes, but obviously keep checking the tightness of the headcollar and move up a size accordingly.

Halti reccomended me a size 3, which is still too big and he's 8 months. I'm guessing it's too big as it constantly rides into one of his eyes, mainly his right eye as he walks on my left.

I did buy a harness for Duke the other day, and although it hasn't stopped him pulling (he walks about the same on a flat lead). The difference is that I feel safer, he constantly wants to say hello to other dogs, and with a harness I can remain calm and keep control of him to not let him say hello unless he is calm or just walk on


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