# Opinions on multiple c sections?



## Doguiesrus (Apr 18, 2012)

Just a quickie! As many of u are aware, 2 of my puppies ended up being Bon by csection, 4 born at home, one in vets and two by section. Now the stages of labour were going brilliant until she failed to contract. Oxcitocin injection nd she delivered 4 puppies. Then nothin after an hour. BAck to vets where vet said he could feel nothing in cervix but definatley puppies there. We decided csection was better than trying oxitosin again. Anyway as they took her into theatre he delivered a pup but then nothing again so proceeded with c section. All puppies really healthy. Mum getting there. Anyway one of the ladies who is taking a puppy asked me if I was mating her again. I said no as I never intended to. She would be 4.5/5 next time she's 3.5 now but for my breed age 5 is "nocking on a bit". Anyway we got onto the conversation of breeding a dog again after c section! Can I just add I am not asking because I want to breed my girl again. It was just and opinion thing we were gossiping about!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Doguiesrus said:


> Just a quickie! As many of u are aware, 2 of my puppies ended up being Bon by csection, 4 born at home, one in vets and two by section. Now the stages of labour were going brilliant until she failed to contract. Oxcitocin injection nd she delivered 4 puppies. Then nothin after an hour. BAck to vets where vet said he could feel nothing in cervix but definatley puppies there. We decided csection was better than trying oxitosin again. Anyway as they took her into theatre he delivered a pup but then nothing again so proceeded with c section. All puppies really healthy. Mum getting there. Anyway one of the ladies who is taking a puppy asked me if I was mating her again. I said no as I never intended to. She would be 4.5/5 next time she's 3.5 now but for my breed age 5 is "nocking on a bit". Anyway we got onto the conversation of breeding a dog again after c section! Can I just add I am not asking because I want to breed my girl again. It was just and opinion thing we were gossiping about!


I missed your thread where the puppies were born in the end but congratulations glad pups are OK and so is mum even though it was not easy and trouble free in the end.

I do know that from 2012, the kennel club put a restriction on registering pups from an individual dam who has had a C-section. The maximum litters that you can breed from any one dam and register the puppies is two C-sections. So Although one would be more then enough for me and obviously for you too, some must continue to breed after having to have a c section or else the KC wouldn't put on restrictions. The full link is below.

Kennel Club Agrees New Approach To Caesarean Sections - The Kennel Club


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

the frenchie i mentioned in a different thread earlier had two litters by c-sect... and they didn't want her spayed during her second either 
poor love looked so upset and scared when she came round- scared f the pups touching her for the first hour and i ended up passing her each pup in turn to have a look and sniff at while she lay on my lap shaking  and this wasn't her 1st time! 
no way is that fair!


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Personally for me if I any of my bitches had a caesarean I wouldn't breed them again.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

I think the fact that she suffered from inertia would be enough for me to not breed again. While there are a number of causes, it can run in lines, so there may be a hereditary element.

As far as C-sections go, it would depend on why a C-section had to be performed. A C-section was due to inertia then I wouldn't breed again. If, on the other hand the reason was a large puppy that was stuck, then I may consider it. 

Don't forget the KC will not register pups if the bitch has already had 2 c sections.


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## Doguiesrus (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks. Yes my thoughts exactly. I only ever planned to have one litter of this girl I want to get her back in the ring as soon as. She absolutley loves posing and showing off! X


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

rocco33 said:


> I think the fact that she suffered from inertia would be enough for me to not breed again. While there are a number of causes, it can run in lines, so there may be a hereditary element.
> 
> As far as C-sections go, it would depend on why a C-section had to be performed. A C-section was due to inertia then I wouldn't breed again. If, on the other hand the reason was a large puppy that was stuck, then I may consider it.
> 
> *Don't forget the KC will not register pups if the bitch has already had 2 c sections.*


*

*
how would they know otherwise?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> [/B]
> how would they know otherwise?


In theory at least by this I assume.

Following discussions with the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, the British Veterinary Association and the British Small Animal Veterinary Association, the organisations have agreed to advise their members that any caesarean sections which they perform on a Kennel Club registered bitch should be reported to the Kennel Club.

To allow the reporting of such operations by veterinary surgeons, an additional section will be incorporated into the form which is presently completed to notify the Kennel Club of any operation which alters the natural conformation of a registered pedigree dog.

Kennel Club Agrees New Approach To Caesarean Sections - The Kennel Club


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> In theory at least by this I assume.
> 
> Following discussions with the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, the British Veterinary Association and the British Small Animal Veterinary Association, the organisations have agreed to advise their members that any caesarean sections which they perform on a Kennel Club registered bitch should be reported to the Kennel Club.
> 
> ...


I see thanks


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> I see thanks


Not altogether sure how it would work though as I don't see how a vet would know if the dog is a KC registered bitch or not unless he is told by the owner or they have previously carried out any BVA/KC testing and had to fill in forms for that and its on the records. Unless Im missing something or its something Im not aware of which is possible.


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## Doguiesrus (Apr 18, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Not altogether sure how it would work though as I don't see how a vet would know if the dog is a KC registered bitch or not unless he is told by the owner or they have previously carried out any BVA/KC testing and had to fill in forms for that and its on the records. Unless Im missing something or its something Im not aware of which is possible.


This is something else we was talking about. Also at shows ect how would they know if your big was spayed unless you told them?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

One C Section is enough imho. Spayed afterwards.

When you reg puppies with KC you are asked if bitch had C Section. 

My Vet didnt ask for KC details of my bitch but he knows me and knew I would have her spayed. I did.

I cant imagine why anyone would want to breed a bitch again after a C Section.


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## Doguiesrus (Apr 18, 2012)

No it's certainly eventful. With this girl it was always going to be one litter. I have however said like with my youngsters if there was no complications I may consider two. Definatley no more. I didnt have my girl spayed and in hindsight wish I had but did not know how this would affect her showing wise and to be honest happened so quick I was signing paperwork as they were taking her to theatre! I'm lucky be able to keep her seperate from males when in season anyway x


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## Callie (May 6, 2010)

This was to b ambers 2nd and final litter. She only comes in season once every 12 to 15 months so would be too old next time round anyway. She had a section this time but if she had been sectioned first time i would not have done it again with her. 
Strange how she could deliver 8 pups with a few 500g ones in there but when it was only 4 the first one at 500g got stuck and that's why the section.
Vet section said it was due to stuck pup but when I spoke to stud owner she called it inertia which I thought was when contractions stopped and dog stopped pushing. Poor Amber tried so hard and she was even barking after contractions as if to say there was something wrong and something should have appeared.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

If it's definitely inertia then no, and I'd worry about breeding on from a pup as well. 

I know of a breeder who went on and bred from a bitch who required 2 prior sections, and guess what, she needed a third.

As far as knowing if a bitch is spayed, you can sometimes tell if you look at the vulva, it's much smaller *generally* in spayed bitches, although that's no confirmation that it's definitely a spayed bitch this can be an indication.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

I've heard some hideous tales of puppy farmers constantly breeding Frenchies and performing c-sections on them themselves (keeps costs down) and via the side of the dog rather than the belly (allows the bitch to have numerous litters rather than just two, because of the pressure on the wound and scar tissue causing difficulties). Doesn't bear thinking about.

All Things Frenchie: French Bulldog C-Section

(Scroll down for puppy mill comment)


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## love our big babies (Jan 3, 2012)

This is actually something we have been discussing too!
Juno had a pup stuck, but never passed any all born by section.
I will wait and decide when pups are closer to a year old. She has a season every 5-7 month's where as most frenchies have a season every 11-12 month's. Though if we do decide to breed again and c section, would spay her. But will wait til 2015 when she will be about 4. But a lot can happen in 2 years fully aware of that.

I have seen some frenchie breeders not declaring bitch had a section and put down natural birth so they can take more litters of the bitch! Personally 2 is more than enough, it takes a lot out them and some wake up spooked by puppies that weren't there before.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm surprised anyone would breed from any dog if they knew there was a good chance they would need a C-section. 

Obviously, there are occasions when an emergency arises because of complications but I would expect most dogs to be able to deliver naturally.

My son was delivered by C-section because he got stuck - he had a large head. But that was not by design.


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## Doguiesrus (Apr 18, 2012)

It's one to get us all talking isnt it! I don't want to be a breeder that breeders annually I do however want to be able to have litter like this to keep one or two back for myself to put in the ring. But I now have a puppy to keep of these lines so my next litter would be two or 3 years when my now young ladies will be grown up!


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