# Urgent: Black slime during labour



## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Hello, just going to give the brief details initially:
My parents dog is in labour. Yesterday she began leaking fluids, today she had a gush of fluid and there was some bloody mucus. Now she has a black discharge coming from her vulva. I told them to call the vet and they are waiting for a call back. I've tried googling the issue but there is not much information. I feel that it is most likely a bad sign but is there any chance that it won't result in the loss of a puppy or the dog?


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

This sounds like meconium to me , the puupies first bowel movement. Unfortunately seeing it before the birth is bad news indeed and the dog needs URGENT attention.
( from my experience as midwife to humans, not dogs, but meconium is not a good sign !)
I hope everything does go well for mum and pups, they will probably need some rescuscitation so be prepared to clear their airways as soon as they are born. Is anyone experienced available to help ? Though I would think , if the pups are still alive , an emergency C?S is called for.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Hi, thanks for the reply. The vet finally called back and said it was normal but I told them to keep an eye anyway. I would have preferred they came out to check her but I don't have much push here.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Normal ??? I hope I'm wrong then !


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

The following may be of help it gives the 6 most common whelping and post whelping problems and the signs to look out for. It does mention to call your vet if there is a bloody foul smelling discharge. I know the vet doesn't seem concerned when you phoned him, but if there are other signs too that there may be a problem then she would need to be checked. Have a read through there may be other things on there to alert you to the fact there is something going on.

The 6 Most Common Problems During and Post Whelping (Canine Pregnancy) | Pregnant & Lactating | Health & Wellbeing | Dogs | MedicAnimal.com

This may help too from number 9 downwards.
https://images.akc.org/pdf/breeders/resources/guide_to_breeding_your_dog.pdf

They are not comprehensive by any means but at least they will give you some info and act as a check list.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks for that, I'm not actually present but I've told them to keep me up to date with what is happening. Really frustrating as this shouldn't be happening in the first place but here's hoping all the pups and mom be fine.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Gratch said:


> Thanks for that, I'm not actually present but I've told them to keep me up to date with what is happening. Really frustrating as this shouldn't be happening in the first place but here's hoping all the pups and mom be fine.


Has mum been having all the veterinary checks and scans she should have been? If she hasn't and its your parents first litter especially personally I would be erring on the side of caution and insisting the vet came out even.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Two dead puppies  They are cold too, they didn't realise she had given birth yet. No she hadn't had any of the checks she needed, her first scan was yesterday. I tried to get them to neuter the animals and I warned them that they shouldn't breed from her because she obviously has issues from her own breeding. The problem is that they had an English springer spaniel when I was younger who had two litters of puppies without any issue and they didn't realise that things can and do go wrong and that they should be neutered. Devastated about this whole thing.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I don't profess to be any sort of expert but, looking on three verterinary centre websites on whelping, all three seem to caution.

Notify the Doctor if Any of the Following Occur:
You cannot remove a puppy lodged in the birth canal.
There is strong, persistent labor for 30 minutes without delivery of a pup.
There is weak, intermittent labor for 6 hours without delivery of any puppies.
It has been more than 4 hours since the last birth and it is probable that more puppies are still inside.
*There is a greenish-black discharge and no labor or puppies within 3-4 hours. The greenish-black color is normal, but such a discharge should be followed very soon by the delivery of the pups.*
The pregnancy lasts more than 65 days.
Cleary Lake Vet Hospital - Gestation, Whelping, and Post-Natal Care in Dogs

Here Come the Puppies!!

The delivery process begins with the onset of labor.

Labor is initially characterized by a restlessness and search for a comfortable, quiet area (the whelping box!). This is then followed by shallow panting which progresses to a more pronounced panting and the beginning of abdominal contractions. (For those of you parents familiar with Lamaze birthing, dogs do it naturally.) During this time fluid will start flowing from the vagina -- clear fluid with flecks of blood indicating the cervical mucous plug dissolving as well as the leakage of placental fluid.* However, the most significant fluid is a blackish-green discharge that indicates that the first of the babies in its placenta is separating from the uterine wall. It is urgent that the puppy be delivered within ten minutes as it is separating from its source of oxygen with its disconnect from the uterus.
*

Request Rejected

4. Difficult births and when to ask for help.

In as many as 25% of whelpings there is a hold up that can lead to the death of one or more puppies. Difficult births fall under the heading of dystocia and there are various causes, including uterine inertia, and oversized or malpositioned puppies.

Whatever you think is the cause ALWAYS seek veterinary attention if:

· your bitch is overdue by more than 3 days,

· she has abdominal contractions for more than an hour without producing a puppy

· * she has a green/black vulval discharge but no puppies produced.*

http://www.argyllclinic.co.uk/features/41-a-guide-to-whelping-and-rearing-puppies

Although all mention a Greenish/Black discharge all seem to also say that puppies should be born pretty quickly after, so if she isn't showing any signs of labour either at the moment or its been a good while and no sign of any pups, then you may need to speak to the vet again maybe.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

I'm still waiting on an update, so far just the two dead puppies that I'm aware of. She didn't have a big belly so it was hard to tell she was pregnant but one could definitely be felt hard against her stomach a week ago so I assume there was 2-3 in there. Hopefully if there is a third it will survive. The vet heard heartbeats last night but couldn't say how many were in there.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Gratch said:


> Two dead puppies  They are cold too, they didn't realise she had given birth yet. No she hadn't had any of the checks she needed, her first scan was yesterday. I tried to get them to neuter the animals and I warned them that they shouldn't breed from her because she obviously has issues from her own breeding. The problem is that they had an English springer spaniel when I was younger who had two litters of puppies without any issue and they didn't realise that things can and do go wrong and that they should be neutered. Devastated about this whole thing.


We cross posted I think. Even responsible knowledgeable breeders often find that pregnancies and especially whelping doesn't go to plan and dogs have problems. The difference is that if you are knowledgeable you at least have a good chance of spotting things that can alert that something isn't right and get the Mum help.

They need to get back on the phone and get Mum checked either the vet comes out or they have her in there on an emergency, speak to the vets, they may well say that she needs to come in and be checked, so they have the surgery and any equipment available in case she needs medical attention. Have placentas been delivered too? The placentas should have been delivered aswell, if they haven't then you can get retained placentas and that's a big concern.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Kind of infuriated with the on call vet, he is basically just passing them off and said to call tomorrow to let him know what happened. Apparently she is delivering another pup right now and they are with her now to help if needed. Hopefully this one will survive. I've told them to watch for placentas too


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Oh, I'm so sorry ! I fervently believe this poor girl should be in a vetenary clinic right now if there's a chance for the 3rd or more pups.
Sympathies on the loss of those 2 pups.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Gratch said:


> Kind of infuriated with the on call vet, he is basically just passing them off and said to call tomorrow to let him know what happened. Apparently she is delivering another pup right now and they are with her now to help if needed. Hopefully this one will survive. I've told them to watch for placentas too


Hope this goes OK, but they need to stay with her, and check the puppy isn't having problems, they can get stuck if its an over large pup, or one that positioned badly, they also need to check the placentas delivered too.
In fact they don't know if she delivered the other placentas after the dead pups even as they didn't seem to see any of it. Use those check lists, as a guide too see if there is the slightest sniff of something perhaps being a problem. Problems don't end with the arrival of the pups either there is also post whelping conditions a lot of which can be serious, so you need to be familiar with those too, they are things that can happen to mum in the days and even a bit longer following whelping.

I know you tried your best, but your parents need to seriously think about getting her and any other dogs they have spayed and neutered after this.
Putting aside all the risks to the Mum and pups which is bad enough, there are too many pups born and stuck in rescues as it is, from people just allowing their dogs to indiscriminately breed.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Apparently the first one had it's placenta attached and the second one had been cleaned up. I've told them that the placenta might not have been delivered and check for placentas with any further pups also. She only pushed twice with the one she is in birthing so I said she likely needs the vet. 

I've been telling them since they got her that she needed spayed (she is about 4 years old) and especially since they got their boy who is around 18 months. I've warned them about everything that could go wrong and I almost lost a kitten because I was previously irresponsible too (so they should know better!) They kept that she had been 'caught' from me for quite some time because they knew I would get mad and I gave them the whole spiel again and told them that they would be keeping any puppies born as a result of this (I kept my kittens). It is a really horrific learning moment and I am certain after this that they will never allow this to happen again.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Gosh, what a sad situation from the very beginning.

Was the 'black' discharge green? Lochia is dark green and is released when the placentas separate; that's normal later on, but not before any pups have appeared.

I think they need to contact the vet again. If they're having no luck with the on-call vet, then try another. It sounds like she may need a scan to see who's left and whether or not they're okay. If she's got any pups in distress left in there, she may need a Caesar.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Gratch said:


> Apparently the first one had it's placenta attached and the second one had been cleaned up. I've told them that the placenta might not have been delivered and check for placentas with any further pups also. She only pushed twice with the one she is in birthing so I said she likely needs the vet.
> 
> I've been telling them since they got her that she needed spayed (she is about 4 years old) and especially since they got their boy who is around 18 months. I've warned them about everything that could go wrong and I almost lost a kitten because I was previously irresponsible too (so they should know better!) They kept that she had been 'caught' from me for quite some time because they knew I would get mad and I gave them the whole spiel again and told them that they would be keeping any puppies born as a result of this (I kept my kittens). It is a really horrific learning moment and I am certain after this that they will never allow this to happen again.


If she isn't pushing and there is no abdominal straining then there may be a problem that its stuck, Mum may even be completely whacked and cant push any more you can get uterine inertia where the uterus stops contracting at any stage of labour, often after pups are already born its just due to uterine exhaustion or exhaustion of Mum. Don't forget too that although the other links I found say that greenish/black discharge can be normal it isn't if the birth of the pup doesn't follow quickly. As they haven't a clue about when the other births happened, they don't know the time span between those and this one, either.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Still waiting on an update, getting no response at the moment say they may be off to the vet. Will let you know the outcome when I find out. Here's hoping for the best.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Gratch said:


> Still waiting on an update, getting no response at the moment say they may be off to the vet. Will let you know the outcome when I find out. Here's hoping for the best.


Hope they are off to the vets, Hopefully they can save the pup, or at least mum will be OK. Please keep us updated.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

how comes they hadn't noticed she'd whelped 2 pups


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Ok finally got hold of them, still no sign of the potential puppy. My sister said the dog definitely did two pushes though so there is likely something still to come, whether it is the placenta from the second one or an actual pup. The vet won't see them until tomorrow for an x-ray. I've told them to get a second opinion from my vet even though it's further away, whatever they do will remain to be seen, all I can do now is hope they listen to my advice. I don't know how they missed the birth of two, they said that she hid them under the blankets or something. I think that a lot of people expect dogs to birth naturally and easy and that I was just coming on too strong. I know when my cat was in labour, I watched her like a hawk and that was weird to them.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm just horrified that the vet won't see her ! I'm sure you're doing your best to get them to seek alternatives , how frustrating. Poor little dog is suffering from sheer negligence in my opinion.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Gratch said:


> Ok finally got hold of them, still no sign of the potential puppy. My sister said the dog definitely did two pushes though so there is likely something still to come, whether it is the placenta from the second one or an actual pup. The vet won't see them until tomorrow for an x-ray. I've told them to get a second opinion from my vet even though it's further away, whatever they do will remain to be seen, all I can do now is hope they listen to my advice. I don't know how they missed the birth of two, they said that she hid them under the blankets or something. I think that a lot of people expect dogs to birth naturally and easy and that I was just coming on too strong. I know when my cat was in labour, I watched her like a hawk and that was weird to them.


That's ridiculous the vet saying he wont see them until tomorrow, his damn well lucky he isn't my vet.
Trouble is how are your parents supposed to know what the hells going on and if there is a puppy stuck or shes got uterine intertia now. How do they know if there are any more pups or not either way.

Quickly checking 
A Guide to Breeding Your Dog 13 of 21
©2007 American Kennel Club
A Guide To Breeding Your Dog 11 - Consult Your Veterinarian if Complications Arise If something goes wrong, don't hesitate to call your veterinarian for assistance. Signs of potential trouble include:
• Indications of extreme pain
• Strong contractions lasting for more than 45 minutes without delivery of a pup
•* More than two hours elapsing between puppies with or without contractions*
• Trembling, shivering, or collapse
• Passing a dark green or bloody fluid before the birth of the first puppy (after the first puppy, this is normal)
• No signs of labor by the 64th day after her last mating

It must be at least two hours, quite possibly a lot more since they don't know how long it was since the other two pups were born.

One other source says 4 hours between, which is the trouble sometimes with the internet conflicting advice.
Time to call the vet

Your dog has been pregnant for over 63 days.

Stage I labour has gone on for 24 hours without producing a pup

Stage I normally lasts 6 to 12 hours - the dog will exhibit nesting behaviour and her temperature will drop.

*
Steady strong contractions have continued for over half an hour without producing a pup.

Prolonged resting phase continues over 4 hours when there are more pups to be delivered.*

There is a foul smelling or bloody vaginal discharge.

The mother-to-be has excessive vomiting or is extremely lethargic.

Like I said I don't profess to be any sort of expert, but if she was mine I would be getting her checked. Anything can happen between now and tomorrow, one of my friends who is incidently a knowledgeable breeder, rushed her bitch in when there was nothing happening at all 24 hours after the temp drop, as it should have, and knowing when the pups were due and no signs of labour and that ended up being uterine inertia, had she not been knowledgeable and on the ball pups and quite possibly mum could have been dead, if it were not for a caesarean section.

As far as Im aware vets have a duty of care.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Yeah, try another vet asap.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Yeah, I'll give them a call again and see if they have checked with my vet. Honestly if I had a car, I would have gone to get her and taken her after the black slime appeared. It's horrible being close to the situation but outside of it at the same time.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Ok they went to my vet and there isn't anything else. Tragic that she went through all of that for nothing. Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. They are both being booked for neutering in the next few weeks. Didn't get too much info cause they are still traveling but I guess the main thing is that she is going to be ok and they finally know what can go wrong. RIP little babies


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Gratch said:


> Ok they went to my vet and there isn't anything else. Tragic that she went through all of that for nothing. Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. They are both being booked for neutering in the next few weeks. Didn't get too much info cause they are still traveling but I guess the main thing is that she is going to be ok and they finally know what can go wrong. RIP little babies


As you say, better to check and know there isn't any more puppies then sit there waiting and something bad does happen.

I too am sorry about the little pups, sad state of affairs all round really.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm so glad she's been seen by a vet, poor little girl. What a nightmare for you , feeling so helpless in that awful situation. 
Wishing mum an uneventful recovery and RIP babies.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

As sad as it is it is probably for the best that the pups didn't survive. I can't believe how stupid and selfish people can be. It is disgusting that your parents have put their poor bitch through this - and for what?


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

How terribly sad all round  I hope mum makes a quick recovery and is not to distressed by the whole process and without her babies.

The breeder of my pup had another bitch ( I was waiting for a pup from ) and she sadly lost all her three babies too. They died in the womb at a very late stage for whatever reason, and mum had to then deliver them as normal. Thankfully she recovered very quickly. But it was very sad for all concerned ( me too as I was desperate for a pup from this bitch! ) but sometimes things just aren't meant to be.


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## Wilmer (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm completely shocked at the behaviour of the original vet. If the conversation was as your parents reported to you, I would consider some letter writing to the surgery/BVA ...that's appalling!


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Really awful update, they took the dog in again first thing this morning as she was shivering and vomiting. Two hours later they began an emergency spay, apparently there was still puppies inside of her, all dead, and they were releasing gas or something. She has survived her operation but has peritonitis and her womb had apparently ruptured. They have been told it does not look good and to call back tomorrow morning if they have no news by then. I know this is the result of irresponsibility but my parents do love their pets and they are absolutely gutted and so worried that she won't be coming back. It is very hard to break through to people the dangers of allowing your pets to breed until they see the harm it does. I honestly also think that if the vet had intervened at her first appointment, the dog would not be as sick as she is now and there might at least have been the two healthy puppies. I know they will never make this mistake again and it is such a high cost for a lesson. I just really hope the poor thing gets through this.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm very, very surprised the vets didn't confirm beyond doubt that there were no more pups in there, via x-ray. I know someone's mentioned making a formal complaint, and yes, your parents have been irresponsible in allowing their dogs to *procreate* but the vets haven't exactly performed very well, I'd be looking at possibly writing to the RCVS, the BVA won't do anything.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

So sorry to hear this, positive vibes and prayers for her. and you , you did all you could in the awful circumstances.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Wilmer said:


> I'm completely shocked at the behaviour of the original vet. If the conversation was as your parents reported to you, I would consider some letter writing to the surgery/BVA ...that's appalling!


Sorry, just to clarify - you'd need to contact the RCVS, not the BVA. They are different. 

RCVS (Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons) is the regulatory body for the profession.

BVA (British Veterinary Association) is one of the representative bodies for the profession.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Gratch said:


> Really awful update, they took the dog in again first thing this morning as she was shivering and vomiting. Two hours later they began an emergency spay, apparently there was still puppies inside of her, all dead, and they were releasing gas or something. She has survived her operation but has peritonitis and her womb had apparently ruptured. They have been told it does not look good and to call back tomorrow morning if they have no news by then. I know this is the result of irresponsibility but my parents do love their pets and they are absolutely gutted and so worried that she won't be coming back. It is very hard to break through to people the dangers of allowing your pets to breed until they see the harm it does. I honestly also think that if the vet had intervened at her first appointment, the dog would not be as sick as she is now and there might at least have been the two healthy puppies. I know they will never make this mistake again and it is such a high cost for a lesson. I just really hope the poor thing gets through this.


That's a grave complication. I hope she does get through it, little love.  xxx

I think there is an important lesson here for all those who breed because it's always been okay before. Uterine rupture is a known complication of whelping. It's a shame your parents have learnt this the hard way, and I'm glad they seem to have changed their opinions of 'casual' breeding as a result. I just hope they don't lose their dog, whom I'm sure they love dearly.

Uterine rupture can happen at any time during whelping, and it could have happened in any case, but I think it is difficult to argue that earlier intervention wouldn't have been more appropriate in a case like the one described. Assuming all the conversations took place as your parents have said, I think your parents should take this up with the practice, acknowledging that they have played their part in this sad affair but also asking some questions about why their attempts to seek help were not met in the way they had expected and needed.

However, we don't know all the facts.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Gratch said:


> Ok they went to my vet and there isn't anything else.





Gratch said:


> Two hours later they began an emergency spay, apparently there was still puppies inside of her, all dead, and they were releasing gas or something.


I know that you're only passing on second-hand information, but do we know what tests were performed to conclude that there were no pups left? Was it based on X-ray, ultrasound, palpation?


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> I know that you're only passing on second-hand information, but do we know what tests were performed to conclude that there were no pups left? Was it based on X-ray, ultrasound, palpation?


If I'm completely honest, I don't know. I don't think they went to my vet at any rate because I know for a fact they would have thoroughly checked her out and probably spayed her that night if they had. I'm guessing they just contacted the local vet again and listened to his advice. Eventually I will ask but I don't want to seem like I'm attacking them right now.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Gratch said:


> If I'm completely honest, I don't know. I don't think they went to my vet at any rate because I know for a fact they would have thoroughly checked her out and probably spayed her that night if they had. I'm guessing they just contacted the local vet again and listened to his advice. Eventually I will ask but I don't want to seem like I'm attacking them right now.


That's understandable.

I suspect there is more to this story than we know. It is easy to criticise the vet, but we don't know the details. Maybe the dog wasn't presented. Maybe a scan or X-ray was recommended by the vet but was declined. Or maybe further tests weren't offered. Many variables and I guess we just don't know at the moment.

I'm sorry you've had to go through all this. It must be tough being close to the situation but not quite in it.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Aye, it is awful. Everything about the dogs, getting them from back yard breeders and so on and neutering and training. I always have that 'I blame You' poem in my head and I wonder that if I had been brutal and let them read that when I found out she was pregnant, if they might have paid more attention and taken better care and things might have turned out different. Hopefully my next message will be that she is going to make a full recovery. I will definitely talk to them about this vet practice though. I have had no end of trouble with them. They are the ones who would do nothing at all to advise me or help save my kittens life. They said she was going to die and let nature take its course and without the cat forums, she wouldn't have made it. They are supposed to be the authority on the health of our pets and err on the side of caution. She definitely went on the Saturday for an x-ray and ultrasound because that was the first indicator I had that things were going to go very wrong (he could hear heartbeats but couldn't tell how many pups there were and said he thought she was aborting).


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Gratch said:


> Ok they went to my vet and there isn't anything else. Tragic that she went through all of that for nothing. Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. They are both being booked for neutering in the next few weeks. Didn't get too much info cause they are still traveling but I guess the main thing is that she is going to be ok and they finally know what can go wrong. RIP little babies





Gratch said:


> Really awful update, they took the dog in again first thing this morning as she was shivering and vomiting. Two hours later they began an emergency spay, apparently there was still puppies inside of her, all dead, and they were releasing gas or something. She has survived her operation but has peritonitis and her womb had apparently ruptured. They have been told it does not look good and to call back tomorrow morning if they have no news by then. I know this is the result of irresponsibility but my parents do love their pets and they are absolutely gutted and so worried that she won't be coming back. It is very hard to break through to people the dangers of allowing your pets to breed until they see the harm it does. I honestly also think that if the vet had intervened at her first appointment, the dog would not be as sick as she is now and there might at least have been the two healthy puppies. I know they will never make this mistake again and it is such a high cost for a lesson. I just really hope the poor thing gets through this.


Im just devasted at what this poor little dog has been through!! I understood that they had taken her to your vet from the post above and they said there was nothing more ? Do you know what the vet did test wise to come to that conclusion?

Poor little dog has been let down all round hasn't she, first your parents normal vet saying they wont see her and bring her in next day, and then something being missed by your vet when they took her there.
As you have said yourself the dog shouldn't have been put in the position of having puppies in the first place and her whelping could have been handled a lot better, but if what you say is true as regards the first vets performance, and depending on what the second actually did to check before saying there was no more pups etc and everything was how it should be then some investigating needs to be done and things looked into.

Im really hoping that she pulls through this and gets well.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

What a terrible thing to happen and I do feel sorry for your parents as it's absolutely devastating to see a pet suffer ... but what a catalogue of errors ... many avoidable I'm afraid. 

Maybe this thread should be available to direct people to (as a reality check) when passing new posters start threads about looking to breed from their pets, to remind them that it's actually a very serious business.

J


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

SusieRainbow said:


> *This sounds like meconium to me *, the puupies first bowel movement. Unfortunately seeing it before the birth is bad news indeed and the dog needs URGENT attention.
> ( from my experience as midwife to humans, not dogs, but meconium is not a good sign !)
> I hope everything does go well for mum and pups, they will probably need some rescuscitation so be prepared to clear their airways as soon as they are born. Is anyone experienced available to help ? Though I would think , if the pups are still alive , an emergency C?S is called for.


That's what I thought - also from human experiences.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Gratch said:


> Really awful update, they took the dog in again first thing this morning as she was shivering and vomiting. Two hours later they began an emergency spay, apparently there was still puppies inside of her, all dead, and they were releasing gas or something. She has survived her operation but has peritonitis and her womb had apparently ruptured. They have been told it does not look good and to call back tomorrow morning if they have no news by then. I know this is the result of irresponsibility but my parents do love their pets and they are absolutely gutted and so worried that she won't be coming back. It is very hard to break through to people the dangers of allowing your pets to breed until they see the harm it does. I honestly also think that if the vet had intervened at her first appointment, the dog would not be as sick as she is now and there might at least have been the two healthy puppies. I know they will never make this mistake again and it is such a high cost for a lesson. I just really hope the poor thing gets through this.


I'm so sorry to hear of her recent complications. I too am very shocked by the vet!

Maybe this thread or something like it should be a sticky as a warning to all these wannabe dog breeders that it's not all sunshine & rainbows and bouncing happy puppies at the end. It can, and does, go wrong. And these people who just want 'one litter' or to experience the whole process really need their eyes opened to how wrong things can go for their own much loved bitch too.

I'm really hoping for positive news Gratch, fingers crossed.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Poor little dog.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

Gratch said:


> Now she has a black discharge coming from her vulva.


The black-green discharge if appearing before the birth of a puppy tends to signify premature placental separation= puppy in trouble = get the vet. Black-green discharge *after* a pup has been born/between birthing is normal.

J


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I agree, if Gratch is ok with it , this would be a valuable thread to keep as a learning experience to novices planning to breed. Really , how NOT to do it. 
Poor little poppet.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Update for today, she was picked up and taken home 40 minutes ago and she's resting. apparently she isn't out of the woods yet and she'll need to go back for check ups over the next few days. Apparently the next three days are critical but she's eating a little and drinking so that's a good sign. Bill has run up to £800 but they are just glad she's home. My dad is even taking the whole week off work to look after her. There is a lot of guilt going around at the moment but at least she is alive. And yeah, I would be ok with this being used as a lesson for people. Horrifying lesson but if it discourages even one person from breeding their dog (apart from genuine breeders obviously) then some good will come from it.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

_'ve been thinking about you all so much , very relieved that she's showing signs of recovery, I really hope it continues. Lots of spoiling needed now I think !_


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Gratch said:


> Update for today, she was picked up and taken home 40 minutes ago and she's resting. apparently she isn't out of the woods yet and she'll need to go back for check ups over the next few days. Apparently the next three days are critical but she's eating a little and drinking so that's a good sign. Bill has run up to £800 but they are just glad she's home. My dad is even taking the whole week off work to look after her. There is a lot of guilt going around at the moment but at least she is alive. And yeah, I would be ok with this being used as a lesson for people. Horrifying lesson but if it discourages even one person from breeding their dog (apart from genuine breeders obviously) then some good will come from it.


I'm glad to hear she is home. Fingers crossed she continues to improve.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

So glad she's home. I do hope she's on the road to recovery.

J


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Glad to hear that she is home and so far OK, hoping that she is a lot better and back to full health soon.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Best wishes for your parent's girl, I hope she pulls through after such an ordeal.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

So glad she is home. Everything crossed she is on the mend.

I normally see the vets' point of view but I have suffered like this with a vet too and I do wonder what some of them know about a normal whelping.

In my case the bitch showed signs that she was going to whelp (she had had 2 litters before and was very casebook). She then stopped but I was completely sure she really had started so contacted the vet. He refused to do anything - for 7 days I took her to the vet and they said she was fine. Eventually I insisted on a caesarian and there was a pup stuck between the horns of the uterus, very dead and everything filthy. She was spayed and only by luck was there no sign of peritonitis and she had no ill effects at all. If I had not insisted I dread to think what would have happened but I have always blamed myself for not taking a stand on day one.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

So glad your parents girl is home. After all she's been through I hope that everything stays well, and that she is on the road to a full recovery very soon.


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

Have been following this thread and im glad shes back home. Poor little one i hope she continues to get better.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Just caught back up with this thread - what a very sad situation.

I feel very, very sorry for that poor little bitch, and also for your parents, who I'm sure feel dreadful about all of this, and wish that they had listened to you in the first place.

However what is done is done, and the main thing is to nurse this poor girl back to health.

My prayers are with her and all of you. Poor girl, poor puppies.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Just wanted to let you all know that she is out of the woods now, everything is clear and healing nicely and she gets her stitches out on Wednesday  She has definitely perked up a lot, I went for a visit yesterday and she was pretty much herself, except for she has started growling at the boy whenever he is in the room with her  Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond and read and for your well wishes for her. I know it's a horrible thing to read but hopefully the fact she has pulled through takes away from the horror of it. Hopefully it will deter some people from breeding irresponsibly.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Good news.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Thats really good news, thanks for letting us know Gratch, so pleased to read that.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

So pleased for you all, such a horrible experience but what a happy outcome.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Really pleased she is OK and making a good recovery now.


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## Lumikoira (May 20, 2011)

Only just seen your thread and all the replies - very glad she is recovering well after such a horrific experience for you all xx


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