# shouldn't he be starting to settle??



## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Hi everyone - the saga with my little cockapoo continues. He's now 5 months and although I have seen some real progress in a couple of areas, there are still many sticking points.

He's sleeping at night now which is a real godsend. But in terms of separation during the day, we're not really getting anywhere. We filmed him last week a few times, for an hour at a time, and he never really settles. This is after a morning walk, a game of fetch and a stuffed frozen kong. He paces, he's into his bed, he's at the back door, he barks a couple of times, he plays with the kong, he's into his bed for 5 mins, repeat.

He also finds it tough being in another room when we're in the house. For example, last night we took him for a rigorous fetch session in the field across the road. He was soaking wet and dirty so we put him to his bed in the utility room behind a baby gate to dry off. He whimpered and paced for about 30 mins - not constantly, but on and off and then he eventually settled to bed.

I have a trainer and I have done much of the separation training advice out there. I have left for 5 secs, 10 secs etc and built it up.

We also struggle with his energy levels - despite the walks, the fetch, the tug of war, kongs etc he's constantly on the move in our house. Not hyper, but always moving around, getting toys, into his bed, jumping at us, just generally playing and getting up to mischief. We are always on edge with him. He doesn't chill at all until 9pm at night, so we're talking hours of activity in the house.

I feel frustrated at the moment. At 5 months, I would like things to have settled down a lot more.

If I'm honest, little Eddie has been a struggle for us from day one - not an easy puppy at all but he has many many good points. He's loving, intelligent, good with other dogs and children, and just wants to be in company all the time.

It's caused my husband and I much angst both individually and between us. I love the wee man, but I can't keep up to his energy levels. I won't be able to provide 3 hours of play and entertainment for him - it's not possible.

I actually rang dogs trust today to talk about finding him a more suitable family and ended up crying my eyes out to the girl. God love her!

My husband and I just feel exhausted looking after him. We can't really go out because we worry about the dog.

I just don't know what to do. I would feel like such a failure if he couldn't stay with us.

And yes, before anyone says it - I did research the breed but the impact of his energy and neediness are totally beyond what I am able to cope with.

Not sure what I'm wanting anyone to say. Maybe I just needed to vent!


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

Hi,

Sometimes we all need a little vent so dont worry about that!

Im sorry I cant offer advice on the breed or seperation anxiety but we have many experienced and knowledgable people on here who hopefully can pop on and give you some advice.

You said you had a trainer. Was that for general puppy training or was that for things to help with the seperation anxiety?

IF you do have to rehome him the dogs trust are very good and he is still young enough to find a forever home with someone who has more time if thats what he needs. You did the right thing thinking about a rescue as apposed to a advertising in a paper as a rescue will vet the new potential owners properly and he has more chance of a forever home to match his needs.

I hope some better advise is along shortly. xx


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

Where are you in the country?
I once took in a working cocker to give a lady in the village some head space to consider if her thoughts to rehome were best.
Maybe some one giving you space for a week could help?

A step away can be essential to getting perspective


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Thank you doggiedelight for the kind response. My trainer was for the separation stuff, we've also done puppy classes for the basic obedience. I haven't spoken to him in a few weeks actually so maybe I need to reconnect with him. He does just keep saying to me that he'll settle eventually. But I don't buy that. My friend recently rehomed their 1.5yr springer cause he did laps on the top of the living room sofas all night.

Nobody wants this lovely wee bundle of fun to settle more than me. I would just love to come home and be happy and relaxed with my lovely dog. But at the minute, I just feel dread - and trust me, that's more about me than the pup. I hear of dogs who are aggressive, possessive, barkers, diggers, chewers - he's none of that. He's really a lovely boy but I just feel overwhelmed and I have done since I got him 3 months ago. It's not making for a happy marriage!

I am a dog lover, I've always been a dog person, but maybe I'm not the best dog owner.

Kare, I'm in Northern Ireland. I actually go on holiday in a couple of weeks and that will give me some space. Thank you so much for the offer. So kind of you.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

First of all, stop with all the exercise! Sounds daft but you're making a rod for your own back there. Exercise is Quality over Quantity, as is socialisation and other aspects of training.

Look up clicker training, get him using his brain instead of physically trying to tire him out, you won't ever physically tire him out, for long and the more you try the more you're increasing his endurance. 3 x 10 minute clicker training sessions a day and a 30 minute walk a day (as he's still quite young) will help. Teaching him to entertain himself whilst you're around is good too. I am lucky as I have 4 so if I'm not playing with them, they have each other. However I would not suggest getting another dog for your dog. It can go horribly wrong.

Instead of feeding him from a bowl, scatter it across some grass (watch for slugs though) or the patio. Instead of Kongs and treat toys, just hide food around your house - get him using that nose.

Also - as shocking as it will sound. Just have a duvet day once in a while. My dogs often miss a days exercise - sometimes I'm too busy or one of them is injured or they had a fair amount the day before. So we just throw food about and I walk them round the garden, but I don't take them out. This is also good for if you have an emergency. If I have an emergency and cannot take mine out - I know they won't go too crazy.

Instead of going out for a meal, cook a nice one at home, put Eddie in another room with some toys and enjoy some quality time together. If you want to go out, get someone to either pop in or stay with him whilst you go out or drop him off somewhere. If my Husband and I want to be out most of the day we have someone come by, walk the dogs, feed them and just let them out to the loo.

Anyway - that feels like I've wrote it all higgly piggley..

Check out Kikopup. Her videos will help.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Hi SLB - I have bought a clicker - maybe that's the way to go! 

This is going to sound so childish - but I really envy my friends and their lovely settled dogs. They can just go out the door and not worry a jot about them! They can go upstairs for a shower without a howling session. They can have a life! OK, now I'm being a drama queen!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Im on my tablet so can't post in depth, but to be honest from this post and others I always feel like you're expecting way to much to soon. He's 5 months old. He's a baby. They generally are active and full of life. Hell, my 19 month old dog still jumps up and mouths and leaves you with bruises! What's more many of the Poodle crosses seem very energetic and boisterous and definitely need more exercise than people assume. I agree with @SLB though that to much exercise can create a dog that never really switches off and long games of fetch can have the undesired effect of over stimulating them so that when you return from your walk it takes them a long time to settle. My sister did the same with her little dog - constant games of fetch and on their return Teddy would have zoomies everywhere, fetch toys and still be up and everywhere. He's 7 now and only just starting to calm down. To be fair though it sounds like your training is going in the right direction. You say he does settle after a while when left? And if the only complaint you have is that he's pacing then that's not to bad and is better than having a puppy howling down the house etc. I think you're naturally stressed and anxious what with this being your first puppy, but from what you describe he's very much a normal puppy.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

joey1981 said:


> Hi SLB - I have bought a clicker - maybe that's the way to go!
> 
> This is going to sound so childish - but I really envy my friends and their lovely settled dogs. They can just go out the door and not worry a jot about them! They can go upstairs for a shower without a howling session. They can have a life! OK, now I'm being a drama queen!


Hey I get that, all the work I've put into my pups then I think back to Sadie and how she was just good with everything, and same with Jack now.

But you took on the responsibility of this puppy, therefore you have that responsibility to do right by him. So what your friends have dogs that settle - maybe you need to learn patience and that's what Eddie is here for? Take this as an opportunity to learn rather than gaining unsightly feelings towards him.

You have to think, Right, why isn't he settling. Is he in pain - take him for a check up. Is he teething - check his mouth. Is he bored - hide his toys and treats in a cardboard box filled with shredded paper.

Chances are you're only paying attention to him when he's not settled. So the moments he is settled - you're missing the opportunity to reward that. The video I posted will show you how to do this. But don't worry - we all forget to reward them when they're doing good and only notice the bad stuff. Until someone points it out, you do tend to miss it.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

like I've said before, our cockerpoo was just like yours and he still is now. What I do is encourage him to settle after a walk is just simply ignore him and carry on with what we need to do i.e. watch tv, go on the computer etc, and eventually he'll realise that he gets nowhere and will just settle down.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Thanks everyone - I came to this forum today after talking to Dogs Trust - so there is a massive part of me that wants to make this work. And yes I totally agree that maybe I'm expecting too much, but I also feel that it is reasonable to expect your pup to settle for short bursts here or there in the evening times, and not run about like a loon for 3 hours 

I think the reason I'm feeling like this again is that I organised a cockapoo walk at the weekend. About 15 other cockapoos showed up and they varied in age and size. Most people said when their pups were young they slept most of the time and were good on their own. No one seemed to say their dog was overly energetic and needed as much stimulation. Maybe that's got into my head.

He is most definitely my responsibility and I really do take it very seriously. Probably too much. And that also counts for if it comes to the worst and rehoming is our ultimate choice. I will do all I can to make it as painless as possible.

I guess I wonder if Eddie would thrive more in a house with more dogs, with children, with people who aren't out working like we are. Somewhere that he will get all the attention and love he needs.


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

I also agree with trying the clicker and helping to tire him out mentally. Upping his physical exersize will only build him up to be expecting more and more and as a small puppy could also be over stimulating him. Where as making him use his brain to learn or figure out games [like the treat under a cup game] will tire him out much better. Mine certainly also loves her routine so if hes stressing about it maybe make a time every day where hes in his bed, and gradually increase that time. So maybe after a walk hes popped in with his kong and as soon as hes done let out again building up the time between finishing and being let out.

Teaching ques like go to bed and stay can also help with teaching him to settle or stay somewhere as its more of a game than a oh noes i have been left kind of thing. Might also be worth making sure his bed is in a really cosy safe spot and has something like one of your old t shirts in there to comfort him.


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## Alexandrite (Jul 31, 2015)

I can relate, I have two 5 1/2mth old Chihuahuas, one is very active, always on the go, doesn't sleep much in the day and also has some seperation anxiety and general hyper awareness and some general anxiety and restlessness to every noise and things going on.

Things I have found that helps, she doesn't like being in a room with a closed door if we're in another so free standing dog gates have helped so she can watch us coming and going doing everyday things.

An adaptil plug-in has helped calm her restlessness and hyper ways a little when it's due to seperation/general anxiety, doesn't seem to work for everyone but worth a try.

I have also found she gets even more hyper when she is over-tired. I've found giving her a little massage around her shoulders calms her down enough to start getting her eyes drooping. Teaching them how to calm down and just relax is a must and trying to keep to a routine so they know what happens when helps too.

A high protein diet without fillers, cereals, grains etc has made a difference too, she was majorly hyper on food with rice etc in.

Dried beef scalp. Very long lasting chew that keeps her busy for a good hour, nothing else seems to exist when she's got one of those!

If you're feeling on edge he'll pick up on that and possibly play on it, mine gets even more hyper if I start getting tense and exasperated when she's still zooming about and jumping up and about on the sofa and into everything for ages.

Some of it will just be being a puppy, some seem to be more active than others. Maybe a friend/family or a dog sitter/walker can help you out a few times a week so you can have some 'me time' as well while he's still young and overly exuberant.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Thanks Alexandrite - excellent advice there. I currently have him on James Wellbeloved Turkey and Rice - so maybe I need to make a change there if grains are setting him off.

I have never heard of dried beef scalp - I'll check that out.

We have him behind a babygate - so check to that one.

We also tried the adaptil plug in and it didn't seem to help much.

One thing I have noticed, that I forgot to mention. He is frequently cocking his leg and scent marking now. He's been doing this for a couple of weeks from 4.5 months. I do wonder if he's hitting maturity/teenage energy stage a little early and that may account for the general restlessness. Although having said that, he's never been a quiet calm puppy so I can't attribute it all to that!


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

joey1981 said:


> Thanks Alexandrite - excellent advice there. I currently have him on James Wellbeloved Turkey and Rice - so maybe I need to make a change there if grains are setting him off.
> 
> I have never heard of dried beef scalp - I'll check that out.
> 
> ...


I was just about to say perhaps he's maturing though I'm no expert in how dogs mature... if this is part of the problem are there any female dogs in the area that might be in season that might be making him restless (I assume he's intact)


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

"_I think the reason I'm feeling like this again is that I organised a cockapoo walk at the weekend. About 15 other cockapoos showed up and they varied in age and size. Most people said when their pups were young they slept most of the time and were good on their own. No one seemed to say their dog was overly energetic and needed as much stimulation. Maybe that's got into my head_."

They lied.
I'm not sure if I've met anyone with some kind of Poodle mix who hasn't had at least one breakdown, wanted to rehome it, or thought it had something wrong.

My Poodle mix is 6 years old in December and is still completely off his trolley. I've never known energy levels like it...BUT, he is managable.
We give him this...
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-toys-rubber-dog-toys-c-439_699/busy-buddy-chuckle-p-5536
...in the evening with some stinky treats in the end and he just chucks it around and it keeps him out of trouble for a while.

He gets an hour of playing in the evening and then he's put in his bed to calm down or toys are taken away and he settles down on a chair.

Can you let him off his lead? If I take Danny for an off lead run I don't extend those walks any further - I made the mistake of getting them super fit years ago and I couldn't get them off the ceiling .
If not, maybe invest in a long line.


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## [email protected] (Sep 6, 2015)

I know you said you have been to a trainer. And mentioned some of things you tried. You also mentioned it is tough for a marriage.

My question for you would be along the lines of consistentcy. Is your husband on the same page as you are with the methods you are trying or is it more "your dog. Deal with it." If there is no consistency behind the training, there is little chance of success. Just my 2 cents.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Hubby is trying to maintain law and order like me, but his patience levels aren't quite the same. He also works rotating 12 hour day and night shifts so much of the responsibility falls to me by default. Unfortunately my husband is further towards the end of his tether than me - he'd really like to move Eddie to a new family before our holiday in October, whereas I would like to see if that space helps us gain some perspective. My husband has no real bond with him sometimes, and then other times, he hugs and squeezes the life out of him.

Yes I let him off lead, particularly when we're playing fetch in a local field. He loves it normally, although sometimes he just looks at me like 'eh, you go chase it if you keep throwing it'. The off lead stuff helps to tire him but still not enough for him to chill. I also do normal on lead walks which he also enjoys.

In terms of him maturing - there are no bitches near by, but I did wonder if this stage includes increased energy levels as I have noticed a hike in the last few weeks. Maybe I'm clutching at straws. 

I am going to try some training tonight instead of walking him and see if that helps. I might also through his dry kibble around the garden and let him hoover it up instead of putting it in a bowl. Can't do any harm. I feel a bit stupid, as despite the research I did, I thought the cocker energy in him would be nicely balanced out by the poodle energy. Seems I was wrong. None of the stuff I read said the poodle would attribute to the high energy levels, just the intelligence levels.


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

joey1981 said:


> Hubby is trying to maintain law and order like me, but his patience levels aren't quite the same. He also works rotating 12 hour day and night shifts so much of the responsibility falls to me by default. Unfortunately my husband is further towards the end of his tether than me - he'd really like to move Eddie to a new family before our holiday in October, whereas I would like to see if that space helps us gain some perspective. My husband has no real bond with him sometimes, and then other times, he hugs and squeezes the life out of him.
> 
> Yes I let him off lead, particularly when we're playing fetch in a local field. He loves it normally, although sometimes he just looks at me like 'eh, you go chase it if you keep throwing it'. The off lead stuff helps to tire him but still not enough for him to chill. I also do normal on lead walks which he also enjoys.
> 
> ...


Both are high energy so 2 high energy dogs together sometimes just equals a even more high energy dog. Also the trouble with a cross is you never know what you are going to get until you have it.

I would also add it might be worth involving your OH in training and feeding ect to see if you can get the bond there between them. It much easier when both of you are on the same age, but it might just be as he doesn't have many constructive things to do with the dog he doesn't feel so attached.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

joey1981 said:


> Hubby is trying to maintain law and order like me, but his patience levels aren't quite the same. He also works rotating 12 hour day and night shifts so much of the responsibility falls to me by default. Unfortunately my husband is further towards the end of his tether than me - he'd really like to move Eddie to a new family before our holiday in October, whereas I would like to see if that space helps us gain some perspective. My husband has no real bond with him sometimes, and then other times, he hugs and squeezes the life out of him.
> 
> Yes I let him off lead, particularly when we're playing fetch in a local field. He loves it normally, although sometimes he just looks at me like 'eh, you go chase it if you keep throwing it'. The off lead stuff helps to tire him but still not enough for him to chill. I also do normal on lead walks which he also enjoys.
> 
> ...


Training should really help. I also play the scatter games in the garden and my three love rooting around for their treats. You can try interactive puzzle games too where he has to problem solve himself.

My large breed dog only has about an hour a day exercise in total, if that. The rest is made up of training and he sleeps long periods of time as a result


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Stop the constant exercise and entertainment and you'll probably see a big change in his behaviour. Things like rigorous games of fetch are probably the worse things you can do for a hyper young puppy as it just winds them up. Instead focus on structured play, training and other brain games.

As you have found out you own a very active and intelligent cross that will need plenty of stimulation throughout his life. He'll settle eventually but it's quite possible that he'll never be an easy going dog akin to a sedate retriever for example. Both Cockers and Poodles are busy dogs, so it isn't surprising that their cross creates an equally busy if not more so dogs....


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

I definitely agree with what has been said above about cutting down his exercise, it sounds like he is over stimulated and so doesn't really have any opportunity to learn how to settle down. You don't have to entertain him every moment, if he's getting over excited send him to his bed with a chew or a toy that he can play with by himself and ignore him. 

I have a cockerpoo, and he certainly had his moments of being wild and over the top energetic when he was a puppy! But we only took him for either 2 short walks a day or one longer walk, and then we played a few games and did short training sessions a few times a day too. Inbetween he had to learn to be calm and either settle down with a chew or a toy by himself, or go to sleep. Games ended when I decided they ended, they weren't allowed to go on so long that he either got bored or exhausted, and he wasn't allowed to pester me into playing with him constantly.

Benji soon learned and he is such an easy dog now! Once he got older we increased his walks, he gets an hour or so in the morning and the same in the evening, but now he relaxes inbetween. He has lots of energy when we are out, is very focused when we do training, but he is super calm in the house, and in fact quite lazy sometimes! 

Your boy is still just a baby though


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Where abouts in N.I are you?

We're currently taking our springer pup Phoebe to a trainer in bangor but she also has a base in Kirkubbin. I cannot recommend her highly enough. She's the 2nd trainer we've been to and she really is fantastic. The 1st one wasn't helpful at all.

Like your puppy, Phoebe constantly demands attention. It's 24/7. She has really bad seperation anxiety and I never have a minute to myself. Some days I feel like I'm ready to throttle her and on more than one occasion, my OH has came home from work to find me a blubbering mess.

The difference in our house since going to the new classes is amazing. Phoebe is still a devil dog from hell most days but it's actually getting more manageable. I don't know if it's her behaviour that has improved or if it's because I've learnt better ways to cope with it but I really believe it's all down to having the right trainer.
If bangor or kircubbin isn't too far for you to travel, the website is..

http://www.downdog.co.uk/index.html


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## Lovespet (Sep 15, 2015)

As I'm now on 7 months of working cocker type I certainly know a little of your separation horrors. Luckily mine manages to sleep in her crate at night quite well until 6am, but will not settle if I'm nowhere to be seen (just heard i.e. upstairs) …I know everyone has an opinion and advice but I do notice little changes and my brother who's dog is dad to my little loony did calm enough not to feel so anxious at about a year….Not completely calm (shouldn't be expected with spaniel types as we know!!) but ok about not being busy with company all the time. Good luck…mine is behind me destroying a nice pair of slippers...


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

joey1981 said:


> Hubby is trying to maintain law and order like me, but his patience levels aren't quite the same. He also works rotating 12 hour day and night shifts so much of the responsibility falls to me by default. Unfortunately my husband is further towards the end of his tether than me - he'd really like to move Eddie to a new family before our holiday in October, whereas I would like to see if that space helps us gain some perspective. My husband has no real bond with him sometimes, and then other times, he hugs and squeezes the life out of him.
> 
> Yes I let him off lead, particularly when we're playing fetch in a local field. He loves it normally, although sometimes he just looks at me like 'eh, you go chase it if you keep throwing it'. The off lead stuff helps to tire him but still not enough for him to chill. I also do normal on lead walks which he also enjoys.
> 
> ...


Poodles are very high energy though I have never had a problem with mine settling probably because I have not really given them a choice. If Candy has had a boring day she will ask me to play with a toy for about 10 minutes in the evening which is fair enough. Toffee would rather snuggle up on my husband's lap if she is needing attention. I have to admit I do not really spend time training them and they have just picked up commands in normal life. I do not do any 'mind games' with them and some days they do not get a lot of exercise - but they are out and about with me on the farm and are more than happy to sleep when I am in the house.

I have never thought playing fetch is a sensible way of exercising a dog. You are just over exciting them and raising their adrenaline levels. A quiet sniff around for half an hour would be far more beneficial and then you would be bringing a calm and relaxed dog back home.


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## Rudydog (Nov 15, 2014)

You have had some really good advise already and tbh I am no expert but we bad similar challengeds with our dog (not the SA) and I learnt a lot both through my own extensive research (I have become a bit of a dog geek) and working with a good behaviourist. My advise based on what worked for us would be:

1- firstly I agree don't listen to other owners, chances are they probably lied about it being so easy. Puppies are really had work and you have an intelligent and energetic cross there. I cried several times when Rudes was a pup and my relationship also took a battering at times.

2- I would second cutting down on exercises Theses dogs can got all day trust me. You are not going tire him our with exercise alone and actually at his age exercise should be limited to protect his growing joins. I also agree that fetching is only getting him more worked up. A walk with lots of sniffing would tire him out more (I know it seems silly but sniffing is really stimulating and so tiring)

3- yes to training!! You need to engage his brains to tire him out. Definitely try scent work as well. This should appeal to his cocker side  I found a fab book to learn the basics called: talking dogs scentwork. It breaks down how to teach a dog to search for a smell. Instructions are really easy and it is so quick to get going. My dog is at his very happiest when searching (it really is a joy to see him bursting with happiness and eagerness) and at his proudest when he's finally found the article. Honestly I think he would do it for no reward at all! You can play scent games at home (we search for tea) and then when he progresses take it outside - great way to keep him engaged on a walk as well. Best of all? After a few searches he is knackered!!!

4- this last advise when it was given to me I struggled to beleive would work but it made a HUGE difference for Rudy: stop feeding him I a bowl... Make him work for all his food. Not only it will tire him out, he will learn at the same time and oddly (I know) it will actually make him enjoy the food a whole lot more... So feeding during training is great obviously and as suggested already you can scatter the treats on the floor but we found what really workd for us what one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=m&ref=pd_sl_5bqoox1gid_b 
They have compartments inside which make it hard for the food to come out and the dog has to work hard to figure it all out. I can hand on heart say it is the best dog item I have bought... And I have bought a lot of things put it this way 

5- again been said already but don't inadvertently reward behaviour which you don't want with attention. Even telling the dog to stop or whatever is attention (for my dog just a sideway look was enough of a reward!). When he's naughty/hyper whatever ignore him. Get up and quietly walk out of the room if you have to. He will soon get the hang of it. Conversely make sure that you do reward the stuff that you want. So on the occasion that he stops and settles: click/praise and actually reward him (yes with food, a chew, a toy or whatever he likes most). Again he will soon get the hang of it. Our dog now just 'shapes' instead of begging: I.e he will take himself to his mat in the hope that we will reward him which we still do intermittently but did solidly for a few weeks when he way younger. Dogs do what works for then and you have a clever mix there, he will work it out.

6- my last piece of advise is hang in there. Easier said than done I know but puppyhood doesn't last forever and it will get easier 

As I say I am no expert but feel free to message me if you have any questions or just need to vent. You clearly care for this little chap so I am sure you can work things out!

In the meantime: deep breathe! And remember: this shall pass 

Lx


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Agree with those who've said stop the insane exercise. Look at tiring him out mentally instead of physically. Have you ever done anything to try to teach him to just chill out? My Lab at 9 months came from a home where he was on the go literally all day and he had no idea how to just relax. I crate trained him and he got crated with a stuffed Kong each evening for an hour or two. He was rewarded for choosing to go and lie down rather than pace or steal things. Initially the rewarding him for lying quietly would make him get up and pace again but once he realised he only got the rewards for lying quietly he was soon choosing to do that more and more and I gradually built up the time I left it before rewarding him until we'd phased out treats completely. I honestly don't think he knew HOW to just chill out.

That alongside an appropriate amount of physical exercise and a fair bit of mental stimulation has resulted in one of those lovely, chilled out dogs I don't have to worry about. For the most part anyway, he still has his moments but it's usually when I've been slacking in the mental exercise department.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Just wanted to pop back and thank you all from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to try and help us. Your advice has been excellent and kind. I have read and re-read all of your replies.

Instead of a walk, this morning I scattered his breakfast around the garden and let him sniff it all out. I then did some short obedience training and gave him a kong and left for work.

Unfortunately he's barked and howled for an hour when I left while my husband was trying to sleep off a nightshift. Doesn't help matters. We'll just keep plugging away I guess........


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

If your husband is home trying to sleep and you want your dog to settle have you tried a thundershirt? I used one when my oldest dog was younger. He used to get to the point where he wanted to sleep in the evening, but would go through a stage of barking first. Putting it on meant he fell asleep straight away and after a bit he no longer needed it. Now I just use them for when the firework season starts as both dogs will sleep through when they have them on.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Sounds like he still has SA, so maybe going right back to the beginning and starting from scratch will help. 

When you say you built up from 5 mins, to 10 mins, etc. was he actually happy during that time and settled - before you increased the time? Did you do some SA training every day?

I found that my dog forgot on a Monday morning that he was fine being left because he had been with us 24/7 over the weekend. So I made sure I left him for at least a short time every day, whilst we were working on the SA.

What's happening to him when you go on holiday? Is he going into kennels? Whatever progress you make in the run up to your holiday could possibly be set back on your return, so be prepared for a blip.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

No I suppose he wasn't entirely happy during the periods we were leaving him but after a few goes, he was quiet. Then one day he just kinda got it and stopped going nuts. But he seems to have gone backwards. I was able to do all that training as I took time off work - I don't have any other leave left so I don't know how to handle it. I could start building it up slowly tonight, but then tomorrow morning, I have to go to work again - do you know what I mean? Like you, at the weekends, I make a point of separating him from us as Monday mornings were the worst.

As for our holiday - thankfully our dog walker is also a home boarder and a dog trainer. We've done a few overnight trials with her to get him ready for it. The first night he howled like a banshee and she ended up sleeping downstairs with him. The next time, she didn't hear a peep from him. So all being well, he'll be ok.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I would try a thunder shirt also one of mine is terrified of fire works put the thunder shirt on and she sleeps right through maybe worth a shot especially if your husband is trying to get some sleep


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
The amount of exercise isn't the key - he needs to learn to relax & hang out.
.
Left to his own devices, he's wandering the house, asking for attn, etc - He
has no idea what down-time or relaxation looks like, or how to do it. The sort
of toddler who runs until he drops & passes out on the floor in exhaustion is
his kinda kid, LOL.
.
i'd use a crate or an 18-inch tether [clipped to an eye-bolt screwed into the
baseboard] to give him limits, & then i'd give him an occupation: busywork
such as a stuffed [frozen or welded] Kong, a hunk of antler, stuffed bone,
etc, or else keep him working - simple training, such as hand-signals for
Sit / Down / Stand, roll over to have his tummy rhythmically stroked, teach
stationary husbandry skills:
trim his claws, examine his eyes / ears, clean his ears, & so on.
.
Tethering him after coming in from a walk or romp is one way to teach him
to be tolerant of restraint & to relax after activity.
.
U can also work on building self-control with games such as *go Wild!... &*
_*Freeze - *_start low-intensity, jump around, act goofy & encourage him to get
silly, too; then ask him to SIT as U go still - U freeze to model for him how to
freeze, too.
As he gets better at controlling himself while [mildly] excited, amp it up, be a
little crazier & more active. *The faster he sits, the bigger the reward - *use
jackpots, feeding a series of 2 to 12 tidbits, one after another, as quickly as
he swallows the predecessor. The tidbits are all pea-sized to half-pea, but
high-value, NOT dog-kibble; high-quality cat food with meat as a 1st ingredient
is OK, but break each X into 3 to 4 pieces. Better dry choices are freeze-dried
lamb lung, whitefish, etc, or fresh diced chicken-breast, turkey, lean beef, etc.
.
A jackpot is delivered as a chain of rewards, accompanied by quiet, warm, sin-
cere praise in a stream --- if U want someone's attention, _whisper_. The quiet
praise helps keep him calm, reinforcing his self-control - high-pitched excited
speech is for _urgency _& _movement_ - quiet speech is for calm in place.
.
U can also ask for a DOWN during "Go Wild!... & Freeze" - but not at first; down
is harder than sit. Get a pretty reliable "sit" at low-levels of activity, then introduce
"down" at 1 or 2 steps below his current ability to sit with distraction.
Set him up for success.
.
.
.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

joey1981 said:


> Just wanted to pop back and thank you all from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to try and help us. Your advice has been excellent and kind. I have read and re-read all of your replies.
> 
> Instead of a walk, this morning I scattered his breakfast around the garden and let him sniff it all out. I then did some short obedience training and gave him a kong and left for work.
> 
> Unfortunately he's barked and howled for an hour when I left while my husband was trying to sleep off a nightshift. Doesn't help matters. We'll just keep plugging away I guess........


I know its hard with so many different opinions/advice being offered. If it were me I wouldn't stop his morning walk altogether especially if you want him to settle and be quiet for the morning. I would just give him a normal walk without masses of ball throwing then when you get home scatter feed and leave him with a kong. Now he has got used to a routine of a walk before being left I personally wouldn't change that although I agree its a good idea to cut down on the length and the ball stimulation.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Maybe it would be worth reading this...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fired-Up-Frantic-Freaked-Out/dp/0985934921


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
A practical demonstration of teaching calm by REWARDING calm -
Leslie's terrierrrist was a nutcase, & she's deliberately shaped him so that
he is able to *self-*inhibit on cue; his name, appropriately, is Snap.
.
.
Leslie rewards very subtle signs of increased relaxation - eye blinks, ears lower,
etc, as well as obvious shifts to calmer: moving from Sphinx to over on his hip,
& so on.
Her timing is good, so the dog gets prompt markers of what's marked & under-
stands what she wants, & what to DO to be rewarded. His reward for being calm
is _ACTION! _in the form of a flirt-pole, & a furry to kill.
.
.
It's clip #3 in this playlist:




.
.
.


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## Fly dog (Sep 3, 2012)

I don't know if you've said already or not and I missed it, but is he crate trained? If not it might be worth doing that, not for when your out necessarily, but for when he is overtired and bratty and can't settle.
Up until the age of two my springer cross Finn was a monster in the house. He was so high energy (which I knew and chose when I adopted him) that he just wanted to be busy. He would get overtired very easily and race round the house, destroy things and mouth. If I couldn't easily redirect him to nice behaviour I would pop him in his crate with a chew. He would usually fall asleep instantly.
He just didn't know how to settle himself down, some dogs don't. So I rewarded staying on his bed, and calmness. As he got older he got better anyway, but I think he'd be hell now if I hadn't put the work in.
I agree with what everyone else has said about not exercising him too much, it'll just get him fitter and unable to rest. Brain work and chew toys will work much better to tire him out than chucking a ball or walking too much.
It will get better, but don't expect too much too soon, he is only a baby and a very bright active one by the sounds of it! And its ok not to like him sometimes because of it, I had a fair bit of time where I didn't like Finn, but I tried not to show him. And now I probably have a better relationship with him than with the others.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

joey1981 said:


> At 5 months, I would like things to have settled down a lot more.


There are a few laid back puppies who have managed to settle by 5 months .....but they are the exception rather than the rule. Add that to the fact that you probably have the hybrid with the highest energy (I think adverts for Cockerpoo puppies should carry a health warning ....for the humans!) and you may have to wait a while before Eddie learns to chill. I have met a few Cockerpoo owners with similar concerns so you are not alone (and if you met other owners who said their puppies slept most of the time, as Gemmaa said, they lied lol). I know one owner who had to drop out of puppy class because her little boy became so hyper that he was almost uncontrollable (for hours afterwards!) the same puppy is now 11 months old and a real sweetie!

My advice is to stay calm. Adding to the advice already given in the above posts, don't try to 'exercise out' his energy level as this simply increases his need and expectation. Regular short walks/training sessions/play sessions are good. Then plenty of time when he gets no attention (ignore him) when you *are* home so he learns to play on his own.

Patience and consistency is vital. If your husband is further towards the end of his tether than you then this isn't going to help with Eddies training either. Frustrated reprimands are more likely to exacerbate the situation and increase anxiety (and hyper behaviour) in your pup.

Puppies will be puppies for a long time. There's no short cut 

J


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## Sarahliz100 (Jan 5, 2014)

I have a springer poodle cross, so similar cross. He was a devil for not settling at that age. We made a rod for our own back by playing furiously with him in the lounge in the evening to tire him out so he'd sleep. This meant he expected that and was a nightmare if we didn't interact with him in the lounge. He'd dash around, nip, chew things, steal things, bark........ On the other hand he knew that in the kitchen/dining room he didn't get attention and would settle well in there - which demonstrates he was capable of it and it was all about managing his expectations. I spent about a year trying to reduce his expectations of interaction when we're trying to relax in the lounge and he's getting there but still has his moments!

So yes, try to work in periods where he doesn't get attention. I'd suggest puppy proofing an area so that he can't get into trouble and you won't be tempted to get up every two minutes to stop him destroying things then get on with something yourself (or at least pretend to!) and completely ignore the pup until he settles himself down. If he barks, whines, nips, chews completely ignore him. Once he's settled himself on his bed, or started chewing a chew toy or is doing something else desirable then you can reward with a low key reward (a quiet "good boy" or a titbit of food tossed to him that he doesn't need to move to get). Make these sessions longer and more frequent, and in different parts of the house so he gradually learns to settle anywhere.

It will take time unfortunately. He's not going to be relaxed and chilled in a fortnight as you've spent months encouraging him to be hyper by interacting with him loads (not a criticism, it's exactly what we did). With dogs like this I think sometimes the harder you try to be a good owner (lots of exercise, play, training interaction - all the things you think you should be doing) the worse you can make things!

As for exercise - yes it's very tempting to try and wear them out but I agree with the others it isn't a solution in itself as they need more and more exercise to achieve the same level of tiredness as they get bigger, stronger and fitter. I would still walk him before work to help him settle but keep it low key. No ball chasing, but maybe some sniffing games (hiding treats to sniff out) or simply taking him to different places to explore. 

Challenging pups are hard work. Realistically he'll continue to be hard work for a while. You and your OH need to get your head around this and decide if you can cope. I think you mentioned your OH wanted to re home before a holiday in October unless he was dramatically better? I think he'll still be hard work in a few weeks to be honest so you potentially need to work on managing your husbands expectations too!

As for rehoming. Not sure how serious you were about this. Remember the puppy stage WILL end and your hard work should pay off. There's certainly lots of things you can change and then assess to see how he improves. But he might always be a bit of a full on sort of dog rather than a couch potato so you need to decide what you are capable/willing to deal with. If you do re home you need to be very very careful about where he goes. A cute 5 month cockerpoo may well get snapped up quickly if you re home privately - but you absolutely need to make sure he doesn't go to another home who will have the exact same issues. If you're not careful you might set in motion a chain of events where he repeatedly gets rehomed when people get over the honeymoon period and realise he's hard work and that is absolutely not acceptable and entirely unfair on the dog. Speak to his breeder (assuming he came from a decent breeder) or otherwise a rescue. Or stick with him yourself and see if you can't turn him into a wonderful companion


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
Umbilical training is another way of teaching any pup, any age, to settle.
It can also be done with adopted dogs, to help them bond & habituate to
their new environs - new sights, sounds, smells, etc.
.
Use a 6-ft leash, & either slip the CLIP thru the Wrist-loop around Ur waist,
then clip the free end to the dog's buckle collar - or if he's too short, put the
wrist-loop onto a belt, buckle the belt, slide the wrist-loop to the side U pre-
fer, & again clip it to his buckle collar.
No prong collars, no choke-chains or any other infinite-slip-collars; a plain
buckle collar AS WIDE AS HIS NECK VERTEBRA, adjusted so that it won't
slip off over his head, if he pulls backward.
.
.
A "collar" that lies loosely around the base of a dog's neck is as useless as
tits on a bull, & dangerous to the dog. Properly-adjusted collars are at least
halfway up the dog's neck [depending on the neck's length] & may be close
to the the dog's jaw - that's fine; a snugly-fitted, smooth collar is safer than a
loose one. Sloppy loose collars can hook on objects, a dog can catch a claw
or foot in it, other dogs can be caught BY it, *AND*... it comes off over the dog's
head without being unbuckled or re-adjusted to open.
Potentially, loose dogs can be killed - by a speeding car, angry cow, careless
hunter, or if s/he is roaming COLLARLESS, by a shelter that picks them up as
a stray with no known owner.
.
.
Once the collar is properly adjusted & the dog is clipped to the leash, go about
Ur day, shadowed by the dog. *Every time U are stationary, the dog gets a*
*'pacifier' - busywork, a food puzzle, a chewie, something to lie down with*
*& be happily occupied.*
When U move on to the next task, pick up the pacifier & carry it along. Praise
the dog warmly, quietly, & sincerely every time s/he takes the pacifier or lies
down [without being cued] - U _*offer*_ the pacifier, U don't say "take it", & U don't
cue the dog to lie down; U *wait* for her / him to drop of their own choice, then U
praise warmly.
This isn't "fetch" so no 'take it', & this isn't down/ stay; it's settle, on their own.
Let the dog work thru the problem & then freely OFFER the desired behavior -
U can put it on cue, later. They'll remember it better & learn it faster if they think
it out on their own.
.
.
Umbilical training is terrific to form a solid connection, habituate a dog to new
stuff, or build trust in an anxious dog. It's low-key, low cost, & simple. ;--D
.
.
.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

joey1981 said:


> Just wanted to pop back and thank you all from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to try and help us. Your advice has been excellent and kind. I have read and re-read all of your replies.
> 
> Instead of a walk, this morning I scattered his breakfast around the garden and let him sniff it all out. I then did some short obedience training and gave him a kong and left for work.
> 
> *Unfortunately he's barked and howled for an hour when I left while my husband was trying to sleep off a nightshift.* Doesn't help matters. We'll just keep plugging away I guess........


I have a 9 month old rescue poodle cross (he's been with us for 6 months now) he will howl the place down if he knows one of us is in the house and he can't see us - I use a stair gate at the top of the stairs and he sits or lies on the top step where he can see us when we are upstairs (this is a huge improvement as he will now sit there relaxed and quiet where as before he would've scratched and cried, I can even now shut the toilet door! )


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

joey1981 said:


> Just wanted to pop back and thank you all from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to try and help us. Your advice has been excellent and kind. I have read and re-read all of your replies.
> 
> Instead of a walk, this morning I scattered his breakfast around the garden and let him sniff it all out. I then did some short obedience training and gave him a kong and left for work.
> 
> Unfortunately* he's barked and howled for an hour when I left while my husband was trying to sleep off a nightshift.* Doesn't help matters. We'll just keep plugging away I guess........


Can he not be in the bedroom with your husband while he's sleeping, I'm assuming he is downstairs while your husband is asleep. Apollo doesn't bark and howl if he is shut out of my bedroom but he will pace most of the time and scratch the door, but as soon as he's in my room he settles down and sleeps.

I agree with others I wouldnt expect a 5 month cocker x poodle to be calm in fact i wouldn't expect many 5 month old puppies to be settling down yet but they are two pretty high energy breeds aswell.

It's a shame because many people buy them thinking they are a cute fluffy lap dog and don't take into account the breeds they come from. I can see them as being one of the most common designer breeds to end up in rescues. not aimed at you in any way, but the people who seem to want a small. cute, 'hypoallergenic' dog that needs little exercise and they think just because they're small and cute they're going to be sedate little lapdogs then they realise they got a fluffy crocodile in disguise that has seemingly massive amounts of energy at least half the time


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## CavObsessed (Sep 19, 2015)

You have been given some great advice already so I don't have much to add, but I just wanted to say that I understand completely that feeling of helplessness! We have a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, so much less energetic and demanding than a Cockapoo but I still found him a massive challenge. Like your husband I also struggled to bond with him initially whereas my husband fell instantly in love. My only advice would be to really try not to feel uptight and anxious when you are around him. I know it is really difficult to mask your emotions, but if you are anxious and on-edge then your puppy will be picking up on this. My husband would say puppyhood was a breeze, probably because he is such a chilled-out person, whereas I found it extremely difficult because I am very anxious.

By 7/8 months I noticed a vast difference in our puppy and he became SO much easier. He is remarkably chilled out and requires very little mental stimulation compared to some breeds so I realise this is unlikely to be the case with a Cockapoo, but what I'm trying to say is that it DOES get better. One day I just looked into his eyes and felt such an indescribable rush of love and that was me hooked. I had loved him before but didn't have the strong bond my husband did.

Sorry for the super rambley post, hope it is of some comfort though


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Dare I even write this........things seem to have slightly improved. We've cut down some of the exercise, changed his food and he seems to be a little more chilled. I don't want to count my chickens just yet because he also hasn't been on his own too much this last few days due to my hubby's work pattern so that helps him too. I'm just going to embrace the positive and be thankful that he's not going to wrong way right now. Time will tell. We're both working Thursday-Wednesday so that may upset him again xxx


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

With puppies it can be one step forward two steps back but they improve quickly again after a step back.

We all know the days with puppies where you love them but you wish you could wave a magic wand so that they would be quiet for just one hour. Puppies are exhausting and everyone forgets just how bad they are once their dog reaches adulthood and settles down.

I will repeat what others have said a bit of clicker training will make a massive difference. My own high energy dog settles beautifully after half an hours clicker training. What type of cocker spaniel was that side of your dogs breeding?

Can I suggest the book click to calm.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

joey1981 said:


> Dare I even write this........things seem to have slightly improved. We've cut down some of the exercise, changed his food and he seems to be a little more chilled. I don't want to count my chickens just yet because he also hasn't been on his own too much this last few days due to my hubby's work pattern so that helps him too. I'm just going to embrace the positive and be thankful that he's not going to wrong way right now. Time will tell. We're both working Thursday-Wednesday so that may upset him again xxx


That's great news! I'm really pleased for you's and long may it continue  Good job Eddie!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
I'm sorry to nitpick, but somehow i doubt that merely "changing his food" & reducing the
intensity & / or duration of his exercise will magickally cure a bored, busy dog, especially
an adolescent pup. Immaterial of their dog's breed or mix, they need to *learn* to chill, of-
ten in new settings.
.
Pups need to learn good manners & cued behaviors for their future lifespans with humans,
in human homes & human company; i'd suggest that rather than a magic-wand diet or a
reduced exercise regimen, U do some proactive training so that he learns to do what U
would WANT him to do in a given context, rather than acting on his own instincts.
.
.
Teaching him what U want him to do now, at 5-MO, takes more time than merely changing
what U pour in his bowl, & definitely takes more time than "less" time spent exercising him -
but it will pay off for the entire future life of that puppy.
His lifespan as a dog is much, much longer than his lifespan as a pup.
.
.
Feel free to think U're being picked on, or that i'm just a curmudgeon who can't join in the
general applause, LOL - my thought is for the pup's future, & the hope that he'll keep his
1st home... actually his 2nd, as his first home is the breeder's, & his 1st family is his dam
& siblings.
I'd like to see him grow up, & then grow old, with U - & with everyone, humans & dog,
happy with one another. That's what training is all about.
.
.
.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Leashed for life - I think if you re read my post you'll see that I did not in any way suggest he was cured, in fact I believe I said that things had only slightly improved, that i wasn't counting my chickens and that it could be to do with the fact that he wasn't left much over the last week. We've actually had another rough day with him so I know things aren't perfect.

I am also deploying some of the techniques suggested here in that I am getting him into his bed with a chew etc and telling him to settle and doing some mental training.

I too want him to stay with us for life but I also recognise my own limitations. I know that training him and living with him will take time and patience. My husband and I need to decide if we are able to give him what he needs. Im not sure people quite understand how much pressure there is looking after a very needy, high energy puppy with separation issues. It's been taxing to say the least and I just hope I'm up to the task!


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> I'm sorry to nitpick, but somehow i doubt that merely "changing his food" & reducing the
> intensity & / or duration of his exercise will magickally cure a bored, busy dog, especially
> ...


I'm not sure if you read the entire thread.. contrary to it not being YOUR opinion, others have suggested to the OP that changing diet and limit the exercise he gets before being left alone may help.
The OP has repeatedly said she is taking on ALL the advice she's been given INCLUDING training him to settle. Part of that advice was change of diet and not over stimulating. It's hardly a "magical fix" it's a sensible solution to part of the problem. The OP clearly stated he has "improved slightly" she no way implied that she'd found a magical fix.

While I understand it's very frustrating that many new people come here asking for advice and dismiss it because it's not what they want to hear, I don't believe that is the case in this thread. If anything, this is someone struggling with a very difficult and overactive pup and has reached a point where she's considered having to rehome him because she can't cope. She's been gracious and thankful for every opinion given to her and I don't see how you telling her to "feel free to think your being picked on" is in anyway helping how she's already feeling and if it was me in the OP's position, your comments would be making an already difficult situation worse!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
I'm going to state for the record that no professional has DIAGNOSED this
5-MO pup as having "separation anxiety" - the single most over-diagnosed
& overused label *by pet-owners,* IME.
.
.
The primary symptom of sep-anx is an obsessive fixation on ESCAPE -
it's not barking, whining, or chewing things, nor eating the sofa.
The average age when Dx'ed is 18-MO, not 5-mos. Sep-Anx is a panic disorder;
not boredom, recreational chewing, destructive chewing, or nuisance barking.
.
If U really believe Ur dog has separation issues, contact a pro - if U are in the UK,
the APDT-uk is an excellent starting point. They list their trainers by the areas they
cover, & also list their specialties.
I'd suggest U look for a trainer who has experience with B-Mod of adult dogs, not
those who primarily focus on puppy manners & basic training.
.
.
.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> I'm going to state for the record that no professional has DIAGNOSED this
> 5-MO pup as having "separation anxiety" - the single most over-diagnosed
> ...


What record are you stating it for? How do you and your record know whether a professional has diagnosed the OP's dog with SA or not? You're advising the OP to seek professional help for her pup when she clearly stated in her very first post (and numerous posts after that) that she already has a trainer. A trainer who has seen the dog btw, not someone who has read a few posts on a forum.

If you wish to update this record of yours, our springer spaniel pup was diagnosed with SA by our KCAI/trainer, two fully qualified vets in different practices and a canine behaviourist at 14 weeks of age and again confirmed at 16 weeks of age.
She is neither bored, recreational chewing, destructive chewing or nuisance barking when left alone. She gets so stressed and panicked to the point that she urinates and defecates over herself uncontrollably, she shakes, howls like she's being murdered and is left visibly shaken and traumatised for hours after being left by herself for more than 10 minutes at a time. If we had to wait until your suggested 18 months old for a diagnosis, we'd have an extremely traumatised dog.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

QUOTE, Nettles:

... our Springer Spaniel pup was diagnosed with SA by our KCAI/trainer, two fully qualified vets in different
practices, & a canine behaviourist, [1st] at 14 weeks of age, & again confirmed at 16 -WO.
.
She is neither bored, recreational chewing, destructive chewing or nuisance barking when left alone.
She gets so stressed and panicked... that she urinates & defecates over herself..., shakes, howls like she's
being murdered, & is ... visibly shaken and traumatised for hours after being left by herself for more than 10
minutes at a time.
*If we had to wait until your suggested 18-mos age for a diagnosis, we'd have an extremely-traumatized
dog.
.
.
WHO SAID that U had to "wait until the dog is 18-MO to be diagnosed"...?*
Not i; i said that the average age AT WHICH Sep-Anx IS DIAGNOSED is 18-mos.
IOW, there are younger dogs & older dogs, but most are post-pubertal young adults.
.
I'm glad that U had Ur pup professionally seen, but re age of onset, she's an outlier -
most dogs are not pre-pubertal when they develop sep-anx, they're well past puberty.
Note that doesn't make it impossible for young pups to develop sep-anx; it's just un-
likely.
The average age of Dx for hypothyroid is 18-MO, but that doesn't mean a 9-MO dog
cannot possibly have deficient thyroid hormones.

Also, it's obvious from Ur description that "panic" is one way to succinctly describe her
extreme emotional upset, & it's way past anything the OP in this thread has mentioned.
Loss of sphincter control is extreme distress & fear - very unusual, & highly stressful.
.
Given the severity of her symptoms, is she on Rx medication?
SSRIs are among the medications used to help dogs with sep-anx learn new responses
to their prior triggers, but there are other Rxs, & OTC calmatives can also be helpful.
.
.
.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> QUOTE, Nettles:
> 
> ... our Springer Spaniel pup was diagnosed with SA by our KCAI/trainer, two fully qualified vets in different
> practices, & a canine behaviourist, [1st] at 14 weeks of age, & again confirmed at 16 -WO.
> ...


I appreciate what you're saying that the symptoms my pup experiences are "way past what the OP has discussed in this thread" but as the nature of this thread is about the OP's 5 month old pup not settling down and being constantly active, there would be no reason for her to explain and discuss, at length, his symptoms of SA and whether or not he has been professionally diagnosed. It bares no relevance to her questions.
It has been stated that he has been seen by a trainer. A trainer that I am sure, having physically seen the dog, is more capable of diagnosing the symptoms of SA in this pup better than any of us on a forum who have neither met nor seen the dog in action.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Just to clarify - my trainer did actually say that he had quite bad SA - and that diagnosis was at a much younger age than he is now, 14 weeks actually. I have used a number of tried and tested methods to 'treat' this SA as advised by the trainer, but we continue to struggle with this issue, both during the day and at night. I feel that when I take a holistic view of my pup - the SA and the over activity are all linked and are feeding off each other. I can't tire him out - which in turn means he's not sleepy when I leave and anxious etc - it's a circle. If he was more chilled I think the SA would subside somewhat. He's always on edge is what I'm trying to say.

I would say that he is more on the mild end of the SA spectrum - as you suggest Leashforlife, the majority of his behaviour focuses on pacing, whining and barking, rather than defecating, escaping, destroying etc. Although coincidentally, while putting him to bed last night, he seemed to really panic. He normally howls for 10 mins and then we don't hear anything from him. But last night it was over an hour of periodic barking, panic whimpering, howling (definitely can relate to the 'like he's being murdered' point!) and what I can only imagine was him trying to dig his way out under the baby gate - at least that's what it sounded like.

We're doing more for Eddie than anyone I know would. I know my parents, my in laws, etc have a more old fashioned view on raising a dog. Everything seemed much easier for my parents when they got their pups years ago when there was no internet and no behaviourists etc. It's all v frustrating and stressful.


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## Olivia Maddison (Oct 1, 2015)

How are you getting on?


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## mysti (Nov 24, 2014)

I know things may have changed now & I've not been able to read all the posts (sorry, I'm unwell) but what you said about your puppy always being on the go & not relaxing really struck a chord with me as Toto was exactly the same & I felt like I had to constantly entertain him. Then when he was 6 months old I was unexpectedly admitted to hospital for 4 weeks & the rest of my family ended up taking care of him. They looked after him well but didn't constantly stimulate him like I had been. And by the time I came home he was a different dog who could entertain himself. He's the only dog I've ever owned so I'm not claiming to be any kind of an expert but that's what worked for us.

I can't offer any advice regarding your other concerns though, sorry.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Ok this is going to be a controversial post and I would ask you to consider what I'm saying before anyone jumps at me. I wasn't going to respond to this post at all out of fear of judgement but here goes, I will be interested in the reactions.

Young eddie is still as full on, still as hyper, still as distressed when left alone and at night he is unsettled, barking and howling, for anything up to two hours. He's also still stress peeing when we are out of the house for even an hour even tho he's otherwise house trained. He's coming 7 months.

My husband and I came back from a 3 week holiday a couple of weeks ago (booked before pup came along). While we were away, he stayed with my trainer who has two other dogs and children. She also had other dogs staying with her. During his three week stay with her, he didn't howl or cry once at night or when left alone during the day. He didn't pee on the floor once. His energy levels were still high but the trainer said he played all day with her dogs and they helped to tire him out.

I had a long hard chat with my trainer about him and she absolutely loves him, thinks he's so sweet natured and so totally lovable and obedient. She actually wanted to keep him but her husband wouldn't have it.

But she also said she could see why he overwhelms us when it's just the two of us looking after him and we work full time. He takes so much energy and time and tiring him is not easy. She said even she struggled with him at times. She also observed his SA and said he was quite affected with it. She thinks her dogs helped so much with his energy and general anxiety. He reminds her of marley in the movie - just has no off switch.

So, for two weeks we've had him back. The howling and crying and peeing on the floor all came back within days.

We've made the gut wrenching decision that our quiet home doesn't work with his wee personality. We've found a wonderful family home for him with 4 kids, a 4 year old male cockapoo and the father works from home. We think this is best for eddie, and indeed for us. We are stressed with him and just can't keep up with him. Also feel quite trapped as I feel so guilty leaving him with his SA -even to go upstairs to shower. Going to work or anywhere, needs military planning with walks, stimulation, puzzles and guilt! Although he's only ever left for 4 hours, he howls for at least an hour of that - that's all we can record on our device. We've exhausted all the SA training techniques and it actually seems to be getting worse. It's also so hard to do as I work full time so come Monday morning I have to leave him for 4 hours. So all the building up of time alone over the weekend gets undone. 

I think eddie will thrive and love the company and busyness of this new home. I've cried all week thinking about this but I'm trying to consider the long term and this could go on for a long time. He could have his energy levels for a few more years and who knows of he'll ever be able to tolerate being on his own. It's not fair on him. It's not enjoyable for us and on this occasion, I think it's the correct decision.

I'm sorry if this disappoints you all. I know you all tried to help us and many of you have dealt with these issues and moved passed them. But it's probably a bad combination of his issues, and my own anxieties and stress levels - it's just not working.

I hope you can all understand and see the logic in our choice.

It's not easy and im dreading handing him over. I never thought I would give up a dog, I feel like im letting him and everyone down. But head knows it's the right thing.


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## BillyPops (Jun 14, 2015)

Hi Joey,
it must have been a very hard decision for you and I'm sure you're going to miss him. In my opinion, you're not necessarily letting him and everyone down. If you look at it the other way round - you're probably setting him up for a happier life, in an environment that's more suited to him and that he'll be able to thrive in. I wish you all luck and hope it works out for the best for him.
xx


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## Olivia Maddison (Oct 1, 2015)

joey1981 said:


> Ok this is going to be a controversial post and I would ask you to consider what I'm saying before anyone jumps at me. I wasn't going to respond to this post at all out of fear of judgement but here goes, I will be interested in the reactions.
> 
> Young eddie is still as full on, still as hyper, still as distressed when left alone and at night he is unsettled, barking and howling, for anything up to two hours. He's also still stress peeing when we are out of the house for even an hour even tho he's otherwise house trained. He's coming 7 months.
> 
> ...


Bless you, it sounds to me that you're doing the absolute right thing, having read and followed your thread I don't think anyone could say you haven't tried your utmost to make it work. You should be really proud of your efforts, I doubt many would have perservered the way you did, just keep focused on your decision when the time comes. Take care.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I hope the dog has now found it's happy, forever home and that everything works out with the new family.

I suggest that you don't get another dog until you are able to devote more of your time to dealing with unforeseen issues - which can happen to any one of us. Working full time simply does not allow that and places unnecessary stress on everyone IMO.

Try not to beat yourself up about it. Far better that you let him go somewhere more suitable, than for all of you to be thoroughly miserable.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I'm so sorry to hear things didn't work out. Is this a private rehome or did you have some rescue back up? I only ask because it worries me slightly if things don't work out in the new home, (not sure whether or not eddie is used to children) I'd hate to think the new owners rehomed him again without as much care about where he went to next. Do you have an agreement that if things do go wrong he comes back to you?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm so sorry to hear things didn't work out. Is this a private rehome or did you have some rescue back up? I only ask because it worries me slightly if things don't work out in the new home, (not sure whether or not eddie is used to children) I'd hate to think the new owners rehomed him again without as much care about where he went to next. Do you have an agreement that if things do go wrong he comes back to you?


Good point.

Did you offer him back to his breeder?


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

It sounds as though it is the best decision for him. I disagree that an extremely busy home is necessarily the best place for a highly energetic puppy as they tend to bounce off the chaos, but yes someone being around the majority of the time will benefit him. Is this a home you found for him yourself? I presume you have made the new owners aware of the separation issues.

I wish the pup well in his new home.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Yes it's a private rehome and the new owners are aware of absolutely everything, they've met him and had him for a short while. They have a cockapoo who had exactly the same issues as Eddie so they know what they are getting into. I have asked that they give them back to me if things don't work out. Breeder is a joke, wouldn't answer my calls the day after we got him so that's not an option.

We still have him and are due to rehome him on Thursday and I am having serious second thoughts. I just don't know what is right. I love him but it's been such a hard 5 months. Is there anyone out there who can tell me he will calm down and the separation will sort itself out?!?!!? Clutching at straws here..............I think my head knows it's the right thing, but my heart aches.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

@joey1981 I think you already know the answer to that, none of us can possibly tell you that he will calm down eventually. Like you said its possible he feeds off your anxiety but from your description of how he is was at your trainers for the 3 weeks you were away then reverting back to his distressed state when home and left does make it seem unlikely that things will change. You have to ask yourself if 1. You can cope with this level of SA/distress long term and 2. Whether its fair on him to continue. If there is nothing else you can do (not sure if you saw a behaviourist or not) or change to ease his distress and this family are aware of his issues and have experience of dealing with similar then in your position I would go with it.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

joey1981 said:


> Yes it's a private rehome and the new owners are aware of absolutely everything, they've met him and had him for a short while. They have a cockapoo who had exactly the same issues as Eddie so they know what they are getting into. I have asked that they give them back to me if things don't work out. Breeder is a joke, wouldn't answer my calls the day after we got him so that's not an option.
> 
> We still have him and are due to rehome him on Thursday and I am having serious second thoughts. I just don't know what is right. I love him but it's been such a hard 5 months. Is there anyone out there who can tell me he will calm down and the separation will sort itself out?!?!!? Clutching at straws here..............I think my head knows it's the right thing, but my heart aches.


If your gut tells you it's the right thing then it is the right thing. You wouldn't have got to the stage where you are at with him due to leave this week if you didn't think it was the right thing.

But I will tell you something, that his behaviour is not abnormal. And yes, with time, patience, frustration and a lot of hard work, there is no reason why he would not calm down eventually and with the right conditioning be able to be left. He's a puppy and they don't come ready made or easy.

My Bo was an extremely difficult puppy. I was used to placid dogs before her so it was a huge shock to the system. She never slept, loathed the crate, rarely settled, had little impluse control, took pleasure in shredding everything, and was even more of a pain the arse when she about 7 months and decided she didn't want to listen to me. Walks were done with military precision as I had to find an area where I could lure her into a corner to put her back on the lead. Stupid way of handling it looking back but I had pretty much lost the will to live at that point!

buuuuut........it's a phase. And you look back and you can actually laugh at a lot of it. Those difficult puppies can actually become the most rewarding adults.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

From the sound of your posts you have made a very difficult decision and are trying to do the best for the pup and your family.
I have a poodle cross who is never still unless sleeping, he follows me everytime I move etc he is 11 months old now and shows no signs of calming down yet.
A friend of a friend had a toy poodle who is exactly the same and sounds very much like your pup, at 18 months they had to admit defeat and the poodle was rehomed to someone who already had Poodles and has thrived the new owners say she is just perfect all the activity, energy, intelligence, love of companionship is exactly what the new owners love about Poodles.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. I said the same thing to my husband - we haven't just all of a sudden found ourselves in this position - it's been a long time coming.

I think it would be different if I didn't like him and was saying 'that's it, I can't stand this dog, I want him out' - but it's not like that at all. There is so much love and I keep willing him to chill. But the practical side of me recognises our limitations and the difficulties we are having. And yes it is stressful.

Add to that, the fact that the last week or so he's been a bit better. We film him when we leave and he's only howling, pacing, digging and barking for 30 mins now and then finally settling - although never in his bed, always on the cold tiles beside the door. He also is only crying for about 15 mins going to bed over the last few nights (was 2 hours a week ago). His energy levels are still tough, but not every single day - just the days we can't be with him all the time. Maybe that sounds bad to yous? But to us, it's slight improvement.

I keep thinking he's just a baby still, but it's the uncertainty of not knowing how long we will have to deal with all this, and the fact that we now know he is much better in a different home environment. Rottiepointehouse - fairness on him is a major consideration here too - you're right.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

joey1981 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I said the same thing to my husband - we haven't just all of a sudden found ourselves in this position - it's been a long time coming.
> 
> I think it would be different if I didn't like him and was saying 'that's it, I can't stand this dog, I want him out' - but it's not like that at all. There is so much love and I keep willing him to chill. But the practical side of me recognises our limitations and the difficulties we are having. And yes it is stressful.
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity how many weeks off work did you take off to acclimatize him to being left?

Also, with the night time crying, what did you do initially to settle him? did you keep him in your room, sleep on the sofa for the first couple of weeks etc?

I ask because a lot of these separation issues are inadvertently created or at least exacerbated by early management - ie leaving the puppy to get on with it, thus cementing in the puppies mind that being left alone is this big scary thing.


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## joey1981 (Jul 17, 2015)

I took 2 weeks off to settle him during the day - I did gradual leaving, treating when quiet etc. Then back to work and we tried to leave him for short periods over the weekends, an hour here or there. Now we've given up and let him cling to us like glue - we shower, he's in the bathroom, we get ready for work, he's on the bed etc.

Night time - weeks of attending to him and not letting him get too distressed in the utility room, culminating in me sleeping in the utility room on a camp bed and leaving for short periods, building up gradually and eventually all night. That took about 4 weeks in total. He started to completely settle but then after a couple of weeks, he started howling, barking, digging just as he was put to bed - sometimes for 10 mins, sometimes, 2 hours on and off.

So I could literally write a book on it!!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I think if you have made your minds up to rehome him and have found what sounds like an ideal home for him then I would stop going over it, you can't change what is done and it doesn't sound like you can change much for him in the near future so you have to do what is best for him. Its going to be a tough week. Will the new owners keep you updated on how he is doing?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
I realize it's Thursday & 3-PM in the UK, ergo he may well be gone already - 
but i'd want a SIGNED contract from his adopters that they'll bring him back
to U, if he doesn't work out in his new home, for whatever reason, AND i'd put
myself on his microchip as 1st contact - in case they do re-home or take him
to a shelter without notifying U.
[These things do happen, promises or not.]
.
.
.


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