# What are the rules with Non Active register?



## via_cat (11 mo ago)

I’m getting a Pedigree Maine Coon kitten soon who is registered as None Active with FIFe and I’m just wondering what that means? Will I be legally obligated to have him neutered once he’s at an age to have that done or does it just mean I can’t use him for breeding? I’m not purchasing him with the intention to breed for profit and he will be a loved pet but I did want to breed him with one of my moggy cats once he was old enough just once because I thought the kittens would be cute, am I allowed to do that or could I get in trouble for that? I’ve never bought a pedigree cat before and have no idea how it works so I’m hoping someone can explain the rules to me.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Any cat on the non active register must not be bred from and if not neutered before leaving the breeder I expect you will have to sign a contract agreeing to neuter him by a certain age.
He could be non active for health reasons - not that he is unhealthy but could pass on a genetic condition to any kittens.
Breeding him with a moggy or even another Maine Coon would be unethical and against his breeder's wishes.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

It's a really bad idea to breed because kittens are cute. They are hard work, and pregnancy, kittens & lactation all pose risks to female cats. The risks are small but they are real. Your entire female moggies are also at risk of pyometra, znd at more risk of breast cancer than if spayed.

Please get your moggies neutered and him castrated.


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## lenanowa (Apr 15, 2019)

Find a local rescue and offer to foster a mum with kittens, in a couple of months many will be looking for foster homes. 

There are so many moggies looking for homes, it’s really unethical to create more just because you think they’ll be cute.


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Non active. He shouldn't be bred frim and should be neutered as soon as your vet will do him. 
If you leave him without doing with the intention if breeding him to one of your moggies it could be 12 months easily before he figured it out BUT from 6 months he's likely to be pissing up your curtains up your furniture up your wa paper marking his territory and he'll your house will stink and that smell doesn't just go away. If you leave him and go through all that then get him neutered there's every chance he still might spray everywhere because you didn't neuter him in time as a kitten and then there's the aggression, some boys can become very aggressive towards other cats even queen's if frustrated and even towards people, now imagine a cat that size deciding he's going to go for you.


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## SnowyNoelle (11 mo ago)

There’s nothing stopping you from breeding but you could only sell the kittens as mixed breed and not registered. You can’t get into trouble for it. 
The census on this forum will be very against you doing this, though. So be ready for those replies.


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## Maurey (Nov 18, 2019)

SnowyNoelle said:


> There's nothing stopping you from breeding but you could only sell the kittens as mixed breed and not registered. You can't get into trouble for it.
> The census on this forum will be very against you doing this, though. So be ready for those replies.


Original breeder can take the cat back if they find out, as it goes against contract and is effectively illegal. If you sign a contract that you'll neuter and you breed instead, you're liable to end up in small claims court.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

SnowyNoelle said:


> There's nothing stopping you from breeding
> The census on this forum will be very against you doing this, though. So be ready for those replies.


I do think this is irresponsible advice to give to somebody. Are integrity and principles dead? If somebody signs a contract they really should adhere to the conditions. Similarly, if a breeder registers a cat on the Non-Active register, it is because they do not want them bred.

@via_cat please don't risk all the problems already mentioned that you could have with your boy by keeping him entire long enough to sire kittens. You would probably live to regret it.


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## SnowyNoelle (11 mo ago)

Maurey said:


> Original breeder can take the cat back if they find out, as it goes against contract and is effectively illegal. If you sign a contract that you'll neuter and you breed instead, you're liable to end up in small claims court.


You're right. But by the sounds of it, they haven't signed a contract to that effect otherwise they would already know the answer to the question they asked.


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## SnowyNoelle (11 mo ago)

QOTN said:


> I do think this is irresponsible advice to give to somebody. Are integrity and principles dead? If somebody signs a contract they really should adhere to the conditions. Similarly, if a breeder registers a cat on the Non-Active register, it is because they do not want them bred.
> 
> @via_cat please don't risk all the problems already mentioned that you could have with your boy by keeping him entire long enough to sire kittens. You would probably live to regret it.


They haven't said if they've signed a contract? OP has already had lots of replies telling her not to breed without answering her question. I just answered and I'm sure OP will take onboard all advice given before deciding to breed.


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## Maurey (Nov 18, 2019)

SnowyNoelle said:


> They haven't said if they've signed a contract? OP has already had lots of replies telling her not to breed without answering her question. I just answered and I'm sure OP will take onboard all advice given before deciding to breed.


I mean they have been answered. The answer is that non-active cats shouldn't be bred, as they're typically sold to pet homes for a reason. I was under the impression that OP has yet to get a kitten, so hasn't signed anything, in general.


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

Maurey said:


> I mean they have been answered. The answer is that non-active cats shouldn't be bred, as they're typically sold to pet homes for a reason. I was under the impression that OP has yet to get a kitten, so hasn't signed anything, in general.


I've signed a contract for him already but all that says is that I've paid a deposit and will be collecting him in April it doesn't mention anything about his status as being Non Active


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

OrientalSlave said:


> It's a really bad idea to breed because kittens are cute. They are hard work, and pregnancy, kittens & lactation all pose risks to female cats. The risks are small but they are real. Your entire female moggies are also at risk of pyometra, znd at more risk of breast cancer than if spayed.
> 
> Please get your moggies neutered and him castrated.


I have 4 of my moggies fixed apart from the one I thought about breeding because she's not old enough yet, I was unsure on whether or not to have her fixed or breed her once when she's old enough I know it's seen as unethical because of how many cats and kittens there already are in shelters I just wanted the experience of raising kittens in all honesty and thought my new Maine Coon would have made a good fit if I decided to go ahead with it.


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

lenanowa said:


> Find a local rescue and offer to foster a mum with kittens, in a couple of months many will be looking for foster homes.
> 
> There are so many moggies looking for homes, it's really unethical to create more just because you think they'll be cute.


I would love to do that but the rescues near me have strict rules so I've never been able to foster or adopt because I live in an upstairs apartment with no garden and a lot of them need to be solo cat homes too and I have 4 cats (soon to be 5)


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

Maurey said:


> Original breeder can take the cat back if they find out, as it goes against contract and is effectively illegal. If you sign a contract that you'll neuter and you breed instead, you're liable to end up in small claims court.


If I hadn't signed a contract to say I'd have him neutered then what would the rules be? My local vet doesn't neuter until they're 6 months old and as far as I'm aware it's possible for them to be mature before then so if he had accidentally gotten my cat pregnant before he was able to be neutered what would happen in that circumstance? I'm not buying him with the intention of breeding him I am just curious about all of the factors in case I make a mistake.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Ps if you are wondering why I'm posting at this time, my home


via_cat said:


> If I hadn't signed a contract to say I'd have him neutered then what would the rules be? My local vet doesn't neuter until they're 6 months old and as far as I'm aware it's possible for them to be mature before then so if he had accidentally gotten my cat pregnant before he was able to be neutered what would happen in that circumstance? I'm not buying him with the intention of breeding him I am just curious about all of the factors in case I make a mistake.


The best way to avoid an accidental pregnancy is to get your female spayed ASAP


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

OrientalSlave said:


> Ps if you are wondering why I'm posting at this time, my home
> 
> The best way to avoid an accidental pregnancy is to get your female spayed ASAP


I know that and will have her spayed I was just generally curious as to what the rules would be in that circumstance?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

It really isn't about rules, it's more about morals.

You're buying a kitten who is not registered as Active, which means his Breeder does not want him bred from, and you're planning to mate him to your moggy girl, presumably of unknown ancestry, and produce a litter of moggies, when so many are holed up in Rescues and Shelters, in desperate need of loving homes.

There is not one single good reason to proceed with your plan, but so many reasons not to.

The responsible thing to do here would be to have your female spayed now and have the male neutered asap. It absolutely is not acceptable to bring more moggies into the World because you would like the experience.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

via_cat said:


> I would love to do that but the rescues near me have strict rules so I've never been able to foster or adopt because I live in an upstairs apartment with no garden and a lot of them need to be solo cat homes too and I have 4 cats (soon to be 5)


I think the rules might be different when it comes to a mother and litter - think you have to keep them in their own separate room anyway and wouldn't be going outside. I'm sure others will know.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

SnowyNoelle said:


> There's nothing stopping you from breeding but you could only sell the kittens as mixed breed and not registered. You can't get into trouble for it.


Actually the breeder can take buyers to court if they fail to neuter, and breed from non active cats which they sold as a pet only. It can and it has happened. Only a complete fool with no moral base would encourage someone to breed fron a non active cat.


via_cat said:


> I was just generally curious as to what the rules would be in that circumstance?


Depending on your country most pet kittens are neutered before leaving the breeder, along with a fairly strict contract which will be signed either just prior on upon collection. As the kitten is FIFE I'm assuming not UK, as that is not a commonly used registry here.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I see you've given "cute" and "for the experience" for wanting to breed. I hope no-one thinks those would be good reasons for having a human baby, and nor are they good reasons for allowing or causing kittens to be bornn


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

FIFe doesn’t have an active / non active register like GCCF does. However FIFe member clubs such as Felis Britannica can have national rules and in the U.K. a breeder can request a pedigree to be stamped not for breeding. This means no offspring could be registered in any bona fide registry. 
You may not sign the contract until the day you collect the kitten.

have you thought your boy may be not for breeding for a reason?


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

Tigermoon said:


> Actually the breeder can take buyers to court if they fail to neuter, and breed from non active cats which they sold as a pet only. It can and it has happened. Only a complete fool with no moral base would encourage someone to breed fron a non active cat.
> 
> Depending on your country most pet kittens are neutered before leaving the breeder, along with a fairly strict contract which will be signed either just prior on upon collection. As the kitten is FIFE I'm assuming not UK, as that is not a commonly used registry here.


I'm in the UK, I asked the breeder and he won't be neutered before leaving her and she said it's my obligation to neuter him.


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

lillytheunicorn said:


> FIFe doesn't have an active / non active register like GCCF does. However FIFe member clubs such as Felis Britannica can have national rules and in the U.K. a breeder can request a pedigree to be stamped not for breeding. This means no offspring could be registered in any bona fide registry.
> You may not sign the contract until the day you collect the kitten.
> 
> have you thought your boy may be not for breeding for a reason?


I'm not sure why he's not for breeding, they've been health tested and are healthy with no underlying issues so it might just be preference of the breeder to not have her kittens used for further breeding


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

OrientalSlave said:


> I see you've given "cute" and "for the experience" for wanting to breed. I hope no-one thinks those would be good reasons for having a human baby, and nor are they good reasons for allowing or causing kittens to be bornn


I don't see the issue if I'm fully capable of looking after the kittens, they wouldn't be left and dumped they'd be well cared for.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

via_cat said:


> I'm not sure why he's not for breeding, they've been health tested and are healthy with no underlying issues so it might just be preference of the breeder to not have her kittens used for further breeding


Exactly, so please do not go against her wishes. No reputable breeder registers their cats on Active without much thought. Even so it is easy to make mistakes as I found several times to my lasting regret and my cats' detriment.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

via_cat said:


> I don't see the issue if I'm fully capable of looking after the kittens, they wouldn't be left and dumped they'd be well cared for.


There seems to be is an assumption all will be well. Often it is, but as with human pregnancy & deliver, not always. There isn't an NHS for cats, so you need to be able to lay our hands on potentially several £k if she needs an out of hours section. Very occasionally you have to hand rear which to start with means feeding tiny fragile kittens every 2 hours night & day. Sometimes kittens are born with deformities and have to be pts, sometimes kittens simply die.

If any or all of these things happened, can you cope financially? Emotionally? Do you have sufficient time?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

via_cat said:


> I don't see the issue if I'm fully capable of looking after the kittens, they wouldn't be left and dumped they'd be well cared for.


If you want to breed why not be upfront with the breeder and let them know your plans?

if nothing else it may persuade them to be responsible enough to EN from now on.


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

OrientalSlave said:


> There seems to be is an assumption all will be well. Often it is, but as with human pregnancy & deliver, not always. There isn't an NHS for cats, so you need to be able to lay our hands on potentially several £k if she needs an out of hours section. Very occasionally you have to hand rear which to start with means feeding tiny fragile kittens every 2 hours night & day. Sometimes kittens are born with deformities and have to be pts, sometimes kittens simply die.
> 
> If any or all of these things happened, can you cope financially? Emotionally? Do you have sufficient time?


I do have sufficient funds yes and I am capable of handling it emotionally because I've been through it before with a pregnant cat I rescued, four of her kittens were stillborn and she had a c section to remove the fifth kitten that then had to be put to sleep and it was hard but we managed it. Raising kittens wouldn't be a decision I'd take lightly.


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

spotty cats said:


> If you want to breed why not be upfront with the breeder and let them know your plans?
> 
> if nothing else it may persuade them to be responsible enough to EN from now on.


Because I've already paid a deposit on my kitten with the intention of having him as a pet, breeding was just something I had thought about as a one off and I wouldn't want the breeder to decide I can't have my kitten if I suggested breeding from him


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

via_cat said:


> I wouldn't want the breeder to decide I can't have my kitten if I suggested breeding from him


As they well should, deceitful owners are not what a breeder wants for their kitten.

Once again feeling very glad a pet kitten has never left me without being neutered first.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

via_cat said:


> Because I've already paid a deposit on my kitten with the intention of having him as a pet, breeding was just something I had thought about as a one off and I wouldn't want the breeder to decide I can't have my kitten if I suggested breeding from him


If you said you wanted a pet and would neuter him and then change your mind without telling the breeder you are dishonest and untrustworthy.


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## AlleyCatRescuer (Apr 13, 2021)

via_cat said:


> I do have sufficient funds yes and I am capable of handling it emotionally because I've been through it before with a pregnant cat I rescued, four of her kittens were stillborn and she had a c section to remove the fifth kitten that then had to be put to sleep and it was hard but we managed it. Raising kittens wouldn't be a decision I'd take lightly.


It stuns me that you can have seen how wrong a pregnancy can go and yet still want to put your pet through that.
Have you thought at all about how traumatic this could be to your girl and how it might upset the other cats in your home to have a sexually mature territorial male around?


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

OrientalSlave said:


> If you said you wanted a pet and would neuter him and then change your mind without telling the breeder you are dishonest and untrustworthy.


But what difference does it make to the breeder? Once the cat is out of their care it shouldn't be their decision what I choose to do with him.


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

AlleyCatRescuer said:


> It stuns me that you can have seen how wrong a pregnancy can go and yet still want to put your pet through that.
> Have you thought at all about how traumatic this could be to your girl and how it might upset the other cats in your home to have a sexually mature territorial male around?


Because the only reason that went wrong was because she had an allergic reaction to flea treatment. I'd make sure everything was correct this time.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

via_cat said:


> But what difference does it make to the breeder? Once the cat is out of their care it shouldn't be their decision what I choose to do with him.


Decent breeders care what happens to their kittens and don't like being liked to. You are talking as if it's a bit of property, you are disregarding the upset it might cause to your feline household, and the small but real risks to your girl.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

via_cat said:


> Because the only reason that went wrong was because she had an allergic reaction to flea treatment. I'd make sure everything was correct this time.


An allergic reaction to flea treatment is pretty much at the bottom of the list of ways pregnancy, kittening and lactation can go wrong.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

via_cat said:


> But what difference does it make to the breeder? Once the cat is out of their care it shouldn't be their decision what I choose to do with him.


Why do you think it 'shouldn't be their decision?' As has already been said, a cat is a living creature and reputable breeders go to great lengths to ensure their kittens will have the best chance of a long, healthy, happy life.

In any case aren't you looking at this from the wrong standpoint? Surely you should be concentrating on your own integrity and abiding by the guarantees you give the breeder not on questioning why they have decided on the particular conditions attached to their kitten sales which, basically, is their prerogative.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

via_cat said:


> But what difference does it make to the breeder? Once the cat is out of their care it shouldn't be their decision what I choose to do with him.


Because breeders care and would find it very upsetting to know they didn't pick the best home for their PET ONLY cat.

Does it not bother you that you'd happily be deceitful?
I wasn't sure whether my cats would be indoor or not so I made sure I spoke about this with the breeder and didn't go to someone who absolutely wanted their cats as indoor as there was no way I was going to lie. Turns out I did decide to keep them as indoor anyway.

If you want to get into breeding, great but do it the right way.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It seems that you only care if you are doing something legally wrong and have no consideration for the morals or ethics. You are willing to lie, by omission, if not outright, to the breeder of a kitten. 
It's not often I say anything, because as a moderator I try to remain impartial, but I find your attitude towards the advice you have been given reprehensible.
As @Tigermoon has pointed out you could be held legally accountable if you go against the breeder's wishes so, even if you can ignore all of the ethical implications at least bear that in mind.


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

QOTN said:


> Why do you think it 'shouldn't be their decision?' As has already been said, a cat is a living creature and reputable breeders go to great lengths to ensure their kittens will have the best chance of a long, healthy, happy life.
> 
> In any case aren't you looking at this from the wrong standpoint? Surely you should be concentrating on your own integrity and abiding by the guarantees you give the breeder not on questioning why they have decided on the particular conditions attached to their kitten sales which, basically, is their prerogative.


I just don't understand how a breeder can be against breeding when they're already doing it? Why is it okay for them to bring more kittens into the world but not me?


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

lymorelynn said:


> It seems that you only care if you are doing something legally wrong and have no consideration for the morals or ethics. You are willing to lie, by omission, if not outright, to the breeder of a kitten.
> It's not often I say anything, because as a moderator I try to remain impartial, but I find your attitude towards the advice you have been given reprehensible.
> As @Tigermoon has pointed out you could be held legally accountable if you go against the breeder's wishes so, even if you can ignore all of the ethical implications at least bear that in mind.


I don't understand why it is so wrong for me to breed my kitten that I've paid for and will look after? The breeder obviously has no issue with breeding cats or adding to the population of cats so why is it bad for me to do that


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## via_cat (11 mo ago)

Arny said:


> Because breeders care and would find it very upsetting to know they didn't pick the best home for their PET ONLY cat.
> 
> Does it not bother you that you'd happily be deceitful?
> I wasn't sure whether my cats would be indoor or not so I made sure I spoke about this with the breeder and didn't go to someone who absolutely wanted their cats as indoor as there was no way I was going to lie. Turns out I did decide to keep them as indoor anyway.
> ...


I wouldn't want to upset the breeder I just don't see why me breeding him is wrong but her breeding hers isn't?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

via_cat said:


> I don't understand why it is so wrong for me to breed my kitten that I've paid for and will look after? The breeder obviously has no issue with breeding cats or adding to the population of cats so why is it bad for me to do that


The breeder is breeding pedigree lines, probably knowing the health and welfare of generations of cats. You are planning to breed a pedigree cat with a domestic shorthair which could have goodness knows what health issues in its background. There are plenty of moggy kittens born to back yard breeders and thoughtless owners to which you intend on adding your own.
And whatever the reason the breeder has chosen to sell their kittens as pet only, that is their choice and not yours to just ignore their wishes. It's the dishonesty that I find appalling. At least have the decency to tell the breeder what you intend on doing.


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## AlleyCatRescuer (Apr 13, 2021)

via_cat said:


> Because the only reason that went wrong was because she had an allergic reaction to flea treatment. I'd make sure everything was correct this time.


Now I might be wrong but losing an entire litter of kittens doesn't sound like something as simple as an allergic reaction (and why would a kitten need to be PTS due to mum's allergic reaction?). It's not uncommon to get cases where some, most or all of the kittens are still born, it's just how nature works. You can never make sure everything goes right. 
My shelter has a dedicated vet on hand all hours of the day and a bank account just for the cats in our care and we have still born kittens and kittens that require medical care all the time, and at this point we really really know what we are doing.
You also haven't answered about how this could effect your girl or your other cats? Some cats want nothing to do with their kittens or have no idea what to do with them. They can over groom themselves with stress or die during birthing or due to infection afterwards. 
How will your other cats cope with a territorial male who will get frustrated when he can't mate, most likely spray everywhere and fights with your cats?
As I've said before, if you desperately want to have kitten experience volunteer. Shelters never run out of cats and kittens that need help and socilization.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

via_cat said:


> I wouldn't want to upset the breeder I just don't see why me breeding him is wrong but her breeding hers isn't?


I am astonished you can't see the difference between a planned pedigree breeding program, and breeding moggies which I suspect is what you will be doing, whatever you read here.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I can really see no point in this remaining open


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