# Finally At Stud...



## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

After 6 weeks of waiting Socks finally started calling yesterday afternoon, so i took her over to the stud last night. 

I've not heard any news yet so my fingers are crossed that it's going well.

I've not used this boy before but he has sired 3 litters so far, all caught 1st time so i'm hopeful.

Been a year since we had kittens here so i'm rather excited


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

That sounds like promising news Alison. Hope Socks is enjoying her honeymoon and comes back with some very special little gifts from her furry hubby. :smile5:


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

I've been told that Socks hasn't been very interested and not much has happened so far, mind you she hasn't been watching 24/7 lol!!

Waiting for news from today, hope it's good news!

Last year i thought she'd went off call but seemed not, hoping for the same this time


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Good luck. Know what it is like waiting for that call. We've already been to stud without any luck this summer. Waiting again.....


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## pippa234 (Jul 17, 2011)

Good luck Ali, I know nothing about breeding, just wanted to wish you luck xx


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

Nothing happening yet, i have a bad feeling about it!! 

She only just started calling a few hours before i took her over, also she's used to being inside and now she's in the stud's run which is partly outside, and the weather has turned. 

Got the feeling she's been knocked off her call and the 2 hour round trip may be for nothing. I really miss her too...


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Fingers crossed for you Alison


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## pippa234 (Jul 17, 2011)

Chin up hun, I'm sure when the time is right it will happen 

Honestly, I don't anyone appreciates what you lovely breeders go through from start to finish, I hope all goes well hun xx


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

alisondalziel said:


> Got the feeling she's been knocked off her call and the 2 hour round trip may be for nothing. I really miss her too...


Aw, don't worry. She will be back with you before you know it.

Hope it all works out well this time so she doesn't have to leave your side again


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

Good news so far. 

A mating was witnessed last night, could have been more during the night.

I'm guessing i'll be picking her up tomorrow, everything crossed she's pregnant!!


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Good luck with the mating for Socks........best wishes........Chris.


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

Just waiting to hear the news today then i'll be picking her up either today or tomorrow, can't wait!

I actually think it's more than me who's missing her! The others have been strangely quiet since she's been away...

Will update later


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

ooo exciting! what will you expect??


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

I suspect she is pregnant but am waiting for the pinking up 

I'm expecting red males, black males, black females and black tortie females.

Hoping to keep a female... 

Due around October 15th.


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## BlackBess (Aug 21, 2011)

People breeding with the current rescue situation, makes me sad.

But all the best, and hope your girl has an uneventful easy birth and healthy kittens.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Breeding moggies and breeding pedigrees are two completely different markets - those who buy moggies wouldn't necessarily want a pedigree and visa versa - my hubby is allergic to 99% of moggies but can manage with pedigrees. Also we are forces and 99% of rescues won't let us have a cat just because of that - should we not be allowed a cat because there are cats in rescue?! Alisondalziel is a 'proper' breeder, doing it all the right way etc. Maybe you should get to know who you are talking about before posting a rather derogatory first post?


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

Thanks love 

Believe it or not breeders are often animal lovers, would you believe it! 

Yes we do care about the thousands of cats (and other animals) in rescue centres. I worked in animal rescue myself, and witnessed the many without homes being put to sleep every week. 

I have a waiting list of well 'grilled' new homes waiting before i breed a litter, or i breed to keep a kitten for show and future breeding.

My animals do well at the shows, proving they are close to the breed standard, i breed to improve the breed, and all of my animals are fully health tested, vaccinated, wormed and are 100% free from fleas. They are fed top quality food to ensure they are in great condition and each one gets a great deal of my time and love every single day so before you make assumptions, do your research.

Breeders like me don't have to sell themselves. Often word of mouth, or meeting people at shows sell my babies.

I do care a great deal about the animals in rescues, but there's not a thing i can about it. All we can do is try to educate about neutering & spaying and why breeding is best left to the professionals.


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## BlackBess (Aug 21, 2011)

spid said:


> Breeding moggies and breeding pedigrees are two completely different markets - those who buy moggies wouldn't necessarily want a pedigree and visa versa - my hubby is allergic to 99% of moggies but can manage with pedigrees. Also we are forces and 99% of rescues won't let us have a cat just because of that - should we not be allowed a cat because there are cats in rescue?! Alisondalziel is a 'proper' breeder, doing it all the right way etc. Maybe you should get to know who you are talking about before posting a rather derogatory first post?


Derogatory? Not at all....

IMO even "proper" breeders should question why they are breeding in this current financial downturn and while rescues are fit to bursting (and yes, also with pedigrees). That is just my view, which is not derogatory.


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## BlackBess (Aug 21, 2011)

A certain Siamese breeder is considered a "proper" breeder, but she has bad practices. Most of her kittens suffer from dilated cardiomyopathy and she breeds lines that are related. She also breeds almost constantly. She wins alot at cat shows and is well respected. But is a very bad breeder 

Her cats are GORGEOUS and very close to standard (win many shows), but their health is bad...  She also sells via word of mouth, and has waiting lists.


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

BlackBess said:


> is considered a "proper" breeder, but she has bad practices. Most of her kittens suffer from dilated cardiomyopathy and she breeds lines that are related. She also breeds almost constantly. She wins alot at cat shows and is well respected. But is a very bad breeder


I don't see how this is relevant to me, no i've never heard of her, i don't breed Siamese.

The bad breeders are easy to spot, they have constant litters available, bad conditions etc etc.

I don't feel bad at all, i'm proud to be a breeder


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

alisondalziel said:


> i'm proud to be a breeder


Me too!!! .


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

BlackBess said:


> Derogatory? Not at all....
> 
> IMO even "proper" breeders should question why they are breeding in this current financial downturn and while rescues are fit to bursting (and yes, also with pedigrees). That is just my view, which is not derogatory.


Do you not think that we do that then? Coming onto the breeding section of a pet forum did you not expect to see breeders? I breed/ bred for health and temperament first! Yes, there are 'bad' breeders out there but not half as many as the 'moggy' breeders ready to scam the public. But . . . most of us are good, honest hard working people who don't do it for profit (cos there isn't one) and for the betterment of the breed. As I said, for a first post it was implying that AD wasn't thinking etc, therefore making it derogatory - cos you don't know her. Did you even look at her website?

Yes the rescue situation is sad - but they shoot themselves in the foot so many times! SOme people can't adopt cos they want an indoor only cat, others because they want an indoor/outdoor cat, some because they have young children, those of us with breeding queens aren't allowed to adopt, I can't adopt because my hubby is a very, very bad man cos he is willing to lay down his life for his country, it's ridiculous. Once the rescue centres stop being so picky they will get a lot more cats adopted! There may be pedigrees in rescue centres but I'm still not allowed to adopt one because of hubbies job! What do they think he will do? Shoot it?!


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

And just as a sidenote, do responsible breeders really see a difference in the number of homes wanting kittens in this "current financial downturn"? I work in the financial industry and quite frankly I'm not seeing much indication that people are doing without the things they really want right now. Lord knows restaurants are always full and stores that carry non-essentials (like craft stores for instance) are certainly not empty wastelands. I hardly think it's fair/sensible to say "ooh there's a recession so you shouldn't breed". A responsible breeder doesn't just churn out kittens and usually has a waiting list already before they breed. And as someone else has pointed out, it's usually a different market for moggies than pedigrees.


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## BlackBess (Aug 21, 2011)

spid said:


> Do you not think that we do that then? Coming onto the breeding section of a pet forum did you not expect to see breeders? I breed/ bred for health and temperament first! Yes, there are 'bad' breeders out there but not half as many as the 'moggy' breeders ready to scam the public. But . . . most of us are good, honest hard working people who don't do it for profit (cos there isn't one) and for the betterment of the breed. As I said, for a first post it was implying that AD wasn't thinking etc, therefore making it derogatory - cos you don't know her. Did you even look at her website?
> 
> Yes the rescue situation is sad - but they shoot themselves in the foot so many times! SOme people can't adopt cos they want an indoor only cat, others because they want an indoor/outdoor cat, some because they have young children, those of us with breeding queens aren't allowed to adopt, I can't adopt because my hubby is a very, very bad man cos he is willing to lay down his life for his country, it's ridiculous. Once the rescue centres stop being so picky they will get a lot more cats adopted! There may be pedigrees in rescue centres but I'm still not allowed to adopt one because of hubbies job! What do they think he will do? Shoot it?!


You discovered HCM in your breeding queen, thus you have put kittens out there with heart conditions.  But at least you spayed the queen and stopped breeding her. The breeder I am referring to keeps breeding from the queens, even though people she has sold kittens to, tell her the offspring are dying young with dilated cardiomyopathy.


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

If i knew of such a breeder, i wouldn't hesitate to report them. I would also be angry, animal cruelty really riles me so no doubt i would have some personal contact with them too. I know, it's bad. 

Most of us here breed ethically, that's why people have found your comment a little rude, considering you don't know me, i'm not so bad ya know 

None of us are perfect, but we do what we can to keep things as ethical as possible. In the case of a problem being found, we will do all we can to rectify it as soon as possible.

Most moggies breed without being vaccinated or health tested, most pedigrees are.


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## LolaRose2010 (Mar 28, 2011)

spid said:


> Do you not think that we do that then? Coming onto the breeding section of a pet forum did you not expect to see breeders? I breed/ bred for health and temperament first! Yes, there are 'bad' breeders out there but not half as many as the 'moggy' breeders ready to scam the public. But . . . most of us are good, honest hard working people who don't do it for profit (cos there isn't one) and for the betterment of the breed. As I said, for a first post it was implying that AD wasn't thinking etc, therefore making it derogatory - cos you don't know her. Did you even look at her website?
> 
> Yes the rescue situation is sad - but they shoot themselves in the foot so many times! SOme people can't adopt cos they want an indoor only cat, others because they want an indoor/outdoor cat, some because they have young children, those of us with breeding queens aren't allowed to adopt, I can't adopt because my hubby is a very, very bad man cos he is willing to lay down his life for his country, it's ridiculous. Once the rescue centres stop being so picky they will get a lot more cats adopted! There may be pedigrees in rescue centres but I'm still not allowed to adopt one because of hubbies job! What do they think he will do? Shoot it?!


wow! what you just wrote is 100% true about rescue homes i just didnt think anybody thought the same as me! i have a young son, we live in a flat, we have a very loving warm home to offer but more than 5 have turned us down! its very sad which is why ive had to also go else where for my kitten


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

BlackBess said:


> You discovered HCM in your breeding queen, thus you have put kittens out there with heart conditions.  But at least you spayed the queen and stopped breeding her. The breeder I am referring to keeps breeding from the queens, even though people she has sold kittens to, tell her the offspring are dying young with dilated cardiomyopathy.


Yes, and I informed the new owners and offered to take the kittens back (there were only 3) - all were happy to keep the kittens and all are still healthy - there was only a 25% chance that the kittens would have the disease not 100% - there is no known gene to test for in Birmans. I bred in good faith - how many moggy breeders do that - how many stand by their kittens - how many test for diseases in the stud and queen before mating? How many moggy kittens are out there with exactly the same disease and there is absolutely no come back - HCM isn't a disease only of pedigrees.

It is a problem when breeders won't accept what they are doing - but . . . they are in the minority. And I certainly don't condone them!

And that still doesn't address the issue of rescues not being consitent or fair in their adoption policies.


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## BlackBess (Aug 21, 2011)

BlackBess said:


> You discovered HCM in your breeding queen, thus you have put kittens out there with heart conditions.  But at least you spayed the queen and stopped breeding her. The breeder I am referring to keeps breeding from the queens, even though people she has sold kittens to, tell her the offspring are dying young with dilated cardiomyopathy.


The rescues can't win, if they gave out animals to just anyone with no checks they would come under fire. If they are thorough and careful who gets animals, they are critised. They can't win.

A saying springs to mind, you can't please all of the people, all of the time.

If you are determind to have a pet, try all rescues, one will let you have one if you are a potencial good owner. It just takes a little time and patience. To find the right rescue/pet for you.

I find most people who have pedigrees, it's out of snobbery and to have bragging rights.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

BlackBess said:


> The rescues can't win, if they gave out animals to just anyone with no checks they would come under fire. If they are thorough and careful who gets animals, they are critised. They can't win.
> 
> A saying springs to mind, you can't please all of the people, all of the time.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, you certainly know how to make friends and influence people don't you?

I have tried for over 25 years to get many varied and different rescue centres to talk to me and let me have a cat or two - and the reason I am ALWAYS turned down - I have a husband in the forces. There is nothing I can do about that - he needs a job, I need the money he brings in to live. I wish the rescue centres would get their act together - but they don't so - no - they can't win.

But obviously neither can I! I told you I offered to take my kittens back, I told you that they only had a 25% chance of having the disease and yet you still put it out there by quoting yourself that I sold on kittens with a problem. And you don't answer any of my questions about moggy breeders.

As for me being snobby and wanting bragging rights you've obviously not listened one bit to the allergy bit. . . well I'm not allowed to tell you want I want to tell you or I'd be banned - but put it this way, I won't be requesting your friendship!!!!!!!:cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing:


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## BlackBess (Aug 21, 2011)

Am I not allowed my view? I didn't call you snobby, my comments were a generalisation. 

And I have not been rude. 

And ps. I dislike moggy breeders, that goes without saying.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

you don't listen. You don't answer questions and you make posts without regard of how that may be read and implications within your posts that are very condemnatory. You don't take into account your audience and you are incredibly judgemental. And now you are on the ignore button.


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

What a load of :cursing: about pedigree owners lol!!

I have 3 pedigrees and a moggy. Many breeders have at least one moggy as well, it's nothing to do with snobbery.

Pedigrees have certain traits and breed characteristics. Someone who is looking for a laid back, calm cat, who doesn't mind fur and grooming, and doesn't have allergies may choose a persian for example. They are selectively bred, as pedigrees should be, and the new owners and potential buyers can have a degree of certainty of the personality of the breed. Moggies are much more 'mish mash', you often don't know what personality your kitten will have. The father is often unknown or stray. It's not a good way to bring life into the world. Breeders have 5 generation pedigrees, and often work back a line so they know of health issues etc and can 'breed them out'. Moggies have unknown heritage and could end up with anything really.

Now, rescues...

I have 2 children under 10 and live in a house that doesn't have a big garden (thankfully) lol. Rescues are very 'iffy' about homing animals with kids which i think is stupid and ridiculous, one of the reasons why i left was this stupid policy, omg you have a child, no cat for you! It's policies like this that keep 'moggy breeders' going and letting their cats out the door to get pregnant by the first tom that comes along, it's wrong and dangerous but they know they will be able to sell them.
Rescues could do a lot more. My cats have a great life here, my children are respectful and i can provide whatever veterinary care is needed, what else do they want! Disclosure Scotland!!

I don't know who you are but you're really irritating and Socks (my girl that this thread was written for) says you need to stop stealing her thunder! Ever the drama queen LOL.


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## BlackBess (Aug 21, 2011)

I guess I am out numbered in the BREEDING section lol. 

I have not been rude, I just have a different view on this. And I see no joy in introducing even more kittens into the world, where 100's are pts a day, that cannot be found homes for 

Education, education is my war cry (sorry).

Walking away now.


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## BlackBess (Aug 21, 2011)

spid said:


> you don't listen. You don't answer questions and you make posts without regard of how that may be read and implications within your posts that are very condemnatory. You don't take into account your audience and you are incredibly judgemental. And now you are on the ignore button.


And you call me judgemental? Oh the irony :lol:


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## Cazzer (Feb 1, 2010)

I'm sorry if you want to educate try the BSB or all those people who believe their cat should have one litter and then claim it was an 'oops' litter, or those who don't neuter their toms and let them fight and get dreadful diseases. Educate the rescues who won't allow their cats to go to indoor homes or those with kids.

And I thought you were walking away. Over to the dog breeding section?


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

having a pedigree cat dose not make anyone a snob. I have 3 1 of witch can be classed as a rescue. A cat is a cat don't class the owner as a snob because they own a pedigree many come into peoples lives for whatever reason. I also have 3 moggies.


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## BlackBess (Aug 21, 2011)

DKDREAM said:


> having a pedigree cat dose not make anyone a snob. I have 3 1 of witch can be classed as a rescue. A cat is a cat don't class the owner as a snob because they own a pedigree many come into peoples lives for whatever reason. I also have 3 moggies.


I agree with you.  In this context.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

BlackBess said:


> The rescues can't win, if they gave out animals to just anyone with no checks they would come under fire. If they are thorough and careful who gets animals, they are critised. They can't win.
> 
> A saying springs to mind, you can't please all of the people, all of the time.
> 
> ...


What stands out to me when people write on here about rescues is the apparent capriciousness in requirements for ownership. It seems completely random and contradictory. For instance, if you live in area A, they will turn you down if you want to keep your cat indoors, as cats need to be outdoors and roaming to be happy and fulfilled. However, if you live in area B, they will turn you down for wanting to let your cat outside at all, as all cats should be inside at all times for their own personal safety. And if you live in area C which is within x-distance of a major road, then you can't have a cat at all, even if it is to be completely indoors. I can completely understand why people get frustrated and just go buy a kitten be it moggy or otherwise.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I see no reason why a breeder shouldnt breed if they wish as they only have a certain time to breed queens. Aslong as the kittens and mother are looked after and health tested where needs be then I dont see how anyone can complain. Yes rescues are full, but a dedicated loving breeder needs to continue there lines. we dont know breeders enough to make any further comment on them. I feel Spid is very responsible and honest and I wish him/her all the best


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## hayleyj08 (Jul 26, 2011)

I agree with what is said about the rescues - whilst I understand that they need to check that the animals are going to a responsible owner, I do feel they could be a little more flexible with people who are obviously going to provide a loving home, especially if the alternative is to PTS!
When I enquired about getting kittens from a rescue I felt like it was an inquisition, passed the first test (no children!) but I do have a 3 year old niece who occasionally visits... ooh not sure... and I don't (YET!) have a cat flap installed... tut tut...
I ended up getting my kittens from a friend.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

alisondalziel said:


> I suspect she is pregnant but am waiting for the pinking up
> 
> I'm expecting red males, black males, black females and black tortie females.
> 
> ...


ooo red males :001_tt1: yummy!! :laugh:


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