# My indoor cats are fighting



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

On Sunday our 2 British Shorthair cats were asleeep in their usual spot in our daughters bedroom. Our 9 year old cat Matilda is a bit timid. Angelica the 10 yr old is sassy and more dominant. They’ve always been really close, the odd spat but nothing bad. My daughters room is their favourite spot and our dogs doesn’t go in there.

Anyway our dog ran upstairs and got into our daughters room as she had left the door open. The cats were asleep, and she jumped up onto her bed and startled them. She wasn’t aggressive but the cats obviously got frightened and they cornered her growling and hissing. I think she really startled them. Our dog just froze and didn’t do anything. The cats then out of the blue turned on each other and had a very severe fight. My husband got hurt trying to break it up. Thankfully they got away with a tiny scratch on a chin. No bad physical damage. The noise was horrendous and fur flying about.

We broke the cats up and put them in separate rooms but then my son accidentally let one out and she got into our daughters room and they had fight number 2 about 10 minutes after the first one. That one was worse than the first. We managed to break them up and since then after some advice we have been keeping them separate in their own rooms to sleep, eat and relax. 

They took about 2 days to stop being scared and stop meowing. We’ve been swapping rooms so they smell each other’s sent. Swapping their blankets. We’ve been letting one out for exercise while one is away. They are house cats so we don’t want to keep them cooped up in one room all the time.

Finally Matilda had stopped being so scared as she is a very timid cat anyway, the fight really made her anxious for about 48 hours. She was so jumpy. Then this morning somehow when Angelica was having a walk around the house she got into my daughters room where Matilda was sleeping with my daughter. Angelica was fine she just jumped up onto the bed and tries to lie down in her usual place next to Matilda as usual and Matilda started hissing at her. 

Obviously Matilda must be still very scared of her and a fight broke out. My daughter said Angelica the sassy one didn’t fight she just wanted to lie down and carry on as normal but Matilda started hissing and it all went off. 

My husband again managed to break up but it still was quite nasty. It wasn’t as bad as the other day, it was a bit quieter but it was still a fight.

Our plan haD been to give them a few days to cool off and then put the baby gate on the living room door and feed them either side of the gate with the door ajar a and each day open it a little more. so that they see each other and we will supervise. We were going to see how that went for as long as it took till we were satisfied that they were okay with seeing each other and then the plan was to get their new toys that we bought and have a meeting with the two of them together, but on a positive note with new treats and toys. 

I am absolutely devastated that they’ve had another fight. I wasn’t going to mix them so soon, I was hoping it would help them calm and forget it. Now this has happened by accident today and for them to have a number 3, it’s obviously going to send them back when they were finally so much calmer. I thought they be wary of each other the first time we met up but because we were going to do it gradually and build up their confidence with each other again I thought would avoid a fight, but because we’ve thrown them in the deep end face to face this morning I guess we’ve set them back.

I’m just devastated because they’ve gone for 9 years with no trouble, always cuddled up together and now I’m worried sick in case they never mix again. Even my daughter said she feel sick since what happened Sunday as it really was very bad fight on Sunday and it made us all feel quite shaken up. She misses her girls cuddled up with her. The house just doesn’t feel the same now they’re part and having to do the shifts of when one comes out, it just feel very strange and upsetting☹

I was finally feeling a bit more hopeful about the cats and now they’ve mixed and it’s happened again I feel devastated. I’ve just had a cry, stupid I know. I cried Sunday when it happened. It’s horrible seeing your cats like this and your home feeling so different. 

If anyone has any advice about the cats Id really appreciate it. We have bought the feliway friends diffusers for their rooms and calming spray for their bedding. I also found some calming treats so I’ve given them twice a day. The fight wasn’t as bad as Sunday so maybe it’s helping a bit as they have seemed much calmer since the feliway has been plugged in and per remedy sprayed on their bedding.

I worry as Matilda has a grade 3 heart murmur according to the vet a few months ago but as she is a timid cat it could have exaggerated the sound he said. Angelica is a grade 1. I keep worrying will these fights cause a heart attack in Matilda. She seems fine just jumpy again and very timid so we’re just leaving her to rest. She’s around the house now, Angelica is in her little sanctuary room. Matilda is having the walk around and has access to our daughters room which she loves. I just hope my girls get over this, I’m so devastated, we all are worried incase it doesn’t get resolved. I’ve spent a fortune in diffusers, calming treats and new toys ready for when I introduce them in a room which is a long way off I know. I just want them to get over this They’ve never fought like this.


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

MaisieD said:


> On Sunday our 2 British Shorthair cats were asleeep in their usual spot in our daughters bedroom. Our 9 year old cat Matilda is a bit timid. Angelica the 10 yr old is sassy and more dominant. They've always been really close, the odd spat but nothing bad. My daughters room is their favourite spot and our dogs doesn't go in there.
> 
> Anyway our dog ran upstairs and got into our daughters room as she had left the door open. The cats were asleep, and she jumped up onto her bed and startled them. She wasn't aggressive but the cats obviously got frightened and they cornered her growling and hissing. I think she really startled them. Our dog just froze and didn't do anything. The cats then out of the blue turned on each other and had a very severe fight. My husband got hurt trying to break it up. Thankfully they got away with a tiny scratch on a chin. No bad physical damage. The noise was horrendous and fur flying about.
> 
> ...


Hi @MaisieD i'm so sorry this is happening with your little ones. The same thing has been happening on and off with my two for the past month and a bit. Like yours, mine had a fright which caused the redirected aggression between the two sisters. Mine are not even 2 years old, and it has caused me great upset and I felt sick for 3 weeks with worry.

We had some success with Feliway Friends, Beaphar Calming Spot On and Calming Treats. We also added more beds and water bowls etc.

Things improved over the weeks with our two, we had a couple of good times with them sleeping next to one another, playing together and sitting together. However things have not been the same with them.

Just last night we had a "fight" in the middle of the night (my two are shut in the kitchen at night because they keep us awake otherwise). We separated them and they seem ok this morning, still swiping and swatting one another and they had a squabble over a bed earlier too.

We're hoping this is a minor blip and things will continue to improve, but we are keeping all of our options open, including potentially rehoming of one of them- a VERY last resort!

There are some wonderfully insightful and experienced cat owners on here who I am sure will be along soon to give you some expert advice.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Bethanjane22 said:


> Hi @MaisieD i'm so sorry this is happening with your little ones. The same thing has been happening on and off with my two for the past month and a bit. Like yours, mine had a fright which caused the redirected aggression between the two sisters. Mine are not even 2 years old, and it has caused me great upset and I felt sick for 3 weeks with worry.
> 
> We had some success with Feliway Friends, Beaphar Calming Spot On and Calming Treats. We also added more beds and water bowls etc.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for replying. 
I'm sorry you're dealing with this too, it's reassured me to know I'm not alone.

It's a horrible feeling it won't be the same for my girls. Since they had another fight this morning, 3 days after their first one, I'm worried it's set us back. I can't even keep them together to wander around the house as their fights are so nasty. We're your cats really loud? It was like loud growling, not even hissing, like a loud growling morning noise and hair flying everywhere. We have a bottle of water at the ready to spray now to separate so we don't get hurt. How do you split them up and are your cats fights as bad as that? 
I've felt sick all week since Sunday. I feel so sad after 9 years this has happened and worried it'll never be the same. They've had spats before but nothing as bad as this. It's so sad. 
I hope your cats work it out. Thank you for replying to me it has helped. I would love to keep intouch to hear how you get on.


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

MaisieD said:


> Thank you so much for replying.
> I'm sorry you're dealing with this too, it's reassured me to know I'm not alone.
> 
> It's a horrible feeling it won't be the same for my girls. Since they had another fight this morning, 3 days after their first one, I'm worried it's set us back. I can't even keep them together to wander around the house as their fights are so nasty. We're your cats really loud? It was like loud growling, not even hissing, like a loud growling morning noise and hair flying everywhere. We have a bottle of water at the ready to spray now to separate so we don't get hurt. How do you split them up and are your cats fights as bad as that?
> ...


Honestly you're not alone! I have a full thread about this which I started, you should be able to find it in the Cat Behaviour and Training section, called sudden sibling aggression. I updated it very frequently so you can see how my situation developed.

My two were really hard to get back together. We had to keep them fully separated for a good week with only the occasional glance at one another. Then we started bringing them together for treats and food (this is their normal routine) then we would just observe them and let one into the garden, keep one inside etc. Mine have access to a cat proofed garden so it helped having that extra space to separate them.

The fights they have were SO Loud! So much noise with not a lot of contact! It was more out of fear I think. We had one last night in the middle of the night which has never happened before, so I think something must have set them off. I came downstairs and put them both in the living room with me to cool off. Today has been ok, but I've been playing with them individually and spending time with both of them together so they feel safe and secure.

I think using water is often a bad thing as it can scare them and make things worse. It's best to try and stay calm and intervene with a large cushion of a blanket and some sort of distraction like treats or a toy. I find making a high pitched noise breaks their concentration.

I'll definitely keep in touch! Feel free to @ me anytime or if there is a way we can private message I can keep in touch that way.

Please keep your thread updated so we can see the progress and offer suggestions x


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Bethanjane22 said:


> Honestly you're not alone! I have a full thread about this which I started, you should be able to find it in the Cat Behaviour and Training section, called sudden sibling aggression. I updated it very frequently so you can see how my situation developed.
> 
> My two were really hard to get back together. We had to keep them fully separated for a good week with only the occasional glance at one another. Then we started bringing them together for treats and food (this is their normal routine) then we would just observe them and let one into the garden, keep one inside etc. Mine have access to a cat proofed garden so it helped having that extra space to separate them.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

How are you cats doing today?

Angelica the sassy one I'm sure would be fine with Matilda. She's been walking around the house looking for her meowing that sounds so like she's calling for her. None stop just now. Matildas in the dining room today having some time alone as she's still so timid after they accidentally met and had another fight on Wednesday. She has just calmed from Sunday's first fight so this one set her back but it was her who initiated it. Angelica is sassy but laid back. Matilda wouldn't hurt a fly but she's so timid and I think she saw Angelica come into my daughters room after a few days apart and got all scared as that's where it broke out the first time on Sunday.

I feel so bad heading Angelica meowing all the time. She did go quiet yesterday but this afternoon she's meowing again walking around the house so I'm worried if she's ok. So sad bless her. 
I've got the plug ins on and having calming treats. I also found some calming powders on Fetch that had amazing reviews so trying those as of today. Just need to calm the nervousness in Matilda because I think if we can get her calmer they're less likely to fight as she's the scared one still. I am worried though why Angelica randomly starts meowing around the house. Maybe she's just confused why she's not with Matilda and they're separated. Im swapping them over soon and giving them their dinner. So Angelica will go for a rest in the living room and Matilda can walk around. 
Jeez it's hard work lol


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

MaisieD said:


> Thank you.
> 
> How are you cats doing today?
> 
> ...


Mine have been ok today, we've spent a lot of time in the garden with them and left them alone for a couple of hours when we went for a bike ride. We're still getting the odd swipe at one another here and there.

We've increased their play time to help tire them out to avoid Nova trying to play with Luna which makes her nervous.

I completely sympathize with you! I've been through it and it made me physically ill for weeks with worry! Things will get better, just take it slowly and take your time with introductions. Try and keep their routines (meal times, play time, bed time) the same so that they feel some sort of normality. Play with them both separately before bed time, give them some food in their own rooms along with some toys, bed, litter tray and get them settled. This will help them feel safe at night and will hopefully let them calm down.

Continue with scent swapping, and just take re-introductions slowly. I would avoid playing with them together as we did it and it ended up with a fight because they were both too worked up.

Initially it started the same with us. Luna was terrified of Nova! Just seeing her set her off hissing and growling. Nova is sassy and confident so just kept approaching Luna which made Luna lash out so Nova would fight back. That's how most of the fights started. Luna would get scared, lash out and then Nova would lash out too. Luna would run and Nova would chase. It was horrible to see.

We found Luna was very good at settling in her safe room, so once she'd had some fusses she would sit herself in her window bed and go to sleep. Nova is like your sassy one and would meow and meow if we separated her from us! She wouldn't eat unless she was with her sister so we used this to help them spend time together. We started with meal times, just allowing them to see one another, then separating them again after meals.

Have a read of my thread if you haven't already. I documented sooo much!

Im hopeful your girls will get back to at least tolerating each other soon. I do think lockdown has been impacting a lot of house cats at the moment. I know it's hard to do, but try and be as calm as possible when around them. They pick up on our emotions xx


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Bethanjane22 said:


> Mine have been ok today, we've spent a lot of time in the garden with them and left them alone for a couple of hours when we went for a bike ride. We're still getting the odd swipe at one another here and there.
> 
> We've increased their play time to help tire them out to avoid Nova trying to play with Luna which makes her nervous.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

We've been keeping them apart so. I play time together at all, if we let them in a room together a fight would break out immediately. Did you jerk your cats apart for long before you mixed them together?

Our girls now have been separate 6 days. They had that random fight Wednesday a few days after the first because they accidentally escaped their rooms. Since that second fight the tensions been worse. Matilda the timid one has calmed a bit today around us. Angelica is doing ok but then tonight we fed them either side if the baby gate with the door about 6 inches ajar. So they could see eachother. Angelica hissed and was a red to go to her bowl. Matilda the timid one ignored her and ate. After they ate Angelica tried to get through the bars but made no aggressive noise or body lanaguage. Then she walked away. Matilda then made a weird growling hiss ag her. I instantly cried. Ridiculous I know but it made me so upset that my girls hate eachother now. I'm crying as I type this and I probably sound pathetic. It's just hard after 9 years of them being together every day, snuggled up on my daughters bed, to now being separate and growling if they even eat opposite eachother either side of a gate.

merge still got the feliway on in the living room and one on the landing upstairs, they're having a zyclene I think it's called, cat powder in their food that's calming but I believe it takes 10 days to work, calming great twice a day and I bought a calming cat collar today. Yes I'm desperate lol.

We still have them in a different room for bed. Toys, litter box, food and water. Then in the morning we let the cat in living room our and the one that's been in daughters room overnight then goes into living room. We then feed them behind the gate with door ajar. Then they stay separate until about 4pm and we swap again so it's fair. The one that's in my daughters room has run if the house and the one in the living room doesn't as it's a bigger room and daughters room is small. So we swap so both get time to be the upstairs cat lol. Feed dinner behind the gate again so they see eachother (tonight's first time in the 3 days been doing it that they've hissed and growled. Absolutely gutted as feel we're going backwards) Then at bedtime we swap rooms again and lights out. It's exhausting but it's our routine now.

I won't lie I'm worried sick we won't ever have them together again and I feel ill with worry like you did. I cry if I see them growling like tonight. It's breaking my heart and I feel so upset. I miss seeing my girls together on my daughters bed all cute and well behaved. My daughter is missing that too. Someone on a Facebook group suggested re homing if it continues and i said absolutely not, never. My daughter would be heart broken and no way could we choose. They're our family. I deleted my post from last week. Her comment upset me.

I'm going to sit and read all your post now. I've not had chance all week with 3 teenagers home and all the stress. Thank you for replying to me, it really does comfort me. Thank you.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi @MaisieD, I am so sorry to read that things are not much better between your cats.

It is better at present not to feed them within sight of each other. While they are not getting along it is likely to make things worse. Food is always a source of competition between cats who share a home together. It might not be overt but it is there, underlying their relationship, and now they are at loggerheads, it will be a major issue between them. Until the cats are back to being tolerant with each other, they need to eat their meals separately.

Also all the other resources should be increased as I believe Bethanjane mentioned . e.g. extra water bowls around the house, extra litter trays (a total of at least 4 trays as you have 3 cats). Spread the trays around so they are not monopolised by one cat. Plenty of cat beds (if they like them) multiple scratch posts and scratch pads. The cats need to feel there is a multiplicity of resources for them.

Please don't try and physically separate the cats if there is a fight, it is far too dangerous and you could end up being badly injured from redirected aggression. If that were to happen you might never feel you could trust the cat who attacked you, even though the aggression wouldn't have been intended for you.

If there is a fight place a large cushion between the fighters and then use the cushion to shepherd one of the cats out of the room. Or as Bethanjane said, make a loud noise to distract the cats from their fight. A friend of mine used a whistle - the kind you sometimes find in crackers - the noise was shrill and unpleasant and it stopped the cats fighting immediately. Then you can separate them to different rooms.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> Hi @MaisieD, I am so sorry to read that things are not much better between your cats.
> 
> It is better at present not to feed them within sight of each other. While they are not getting along it is likely to make things worse. Food is always a source of competition between cats who share a home together. It might not be overt but it is there, underlying their relationship, and now they are at loggerheads, it will be a major issue between them. Until the cats are back to being tolerant with each other, they need to eat their meals separately.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

mad have 2 cats. They've got separate bowel, trays etc

That's my worry, if my husband picks one up during a fight that they may turn on him and I've had that done to me in the past and it's scary. Ours fight so bad that it's hard to get a cushion between them. Someone suggested a spray bottle with water or a yard brush. But I'm just terrified during a fight they'll hurt my husband or children. It scares me and I can't be around it as a cat turned their aggression on me years ago and yes we had to rehome her as she just kept attacking me and only me it was terrifying. She has, had a small operation in her neck and she's just wanna Denver the same again.

I was told to separate them, give them their own litter tray, own bowl etc and then I was told to feed them either side of the door to behind with, so they don't see eachother. Then in time open the door slightly so they see eachother while they eat and build it up from there. I was also told to swap their rooms a couple of times a day so they scent swap and of course stretch their legs.

I'm worried sick how to resolve this. I read one thing, then another so I don't know what to do for the best It's so upsetting as we've had our girls 10 and 9 heads. They're so lovely, and always loves eachother. I'm devastated seeing them like this and it is really worrying and stressful for us all in the house.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> Hi @MaisieD, I am so sorry to read that things are not much better between your cats.
> 
> It is better at present not to feed them within sight of each other. While they are not getting along it is likely to make things worse. Food is always a source of competition between cats who share a home together. It might not be overt but it is there, underlying their relationship, and now they are at loggerheads, it will be a major issue between them. Until the cats are back to being tolerant with each other, they need to eat their meals separately.
> 
> ...


Ps how can we make them tolerant of eachother if they aren't seeing eachother? We were told to separate them and only let them see eachother while they eat. If I shouldn't be doing that how do we let them see eachother. We can't place them in a room together. Just last night after they ate Matilda growled really aggressively at Angelica the other side of the gate, she was just sat on the bottom step and she then walked away, she didn't growl or hiss back.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I am sorry it is difficult for you @MaisieD.

Yes, I would allow them to see each other, for short supervised periods each day, but not when they are eating. But if they are growling aggressively every time they are together then they should be kept apart until the Zylkene has had a chance to work. Do you also have plug in Pet Remedy diffusers?.

Basically the cats all need to calm down and the best way to achieve that is to keep them separate for a few days without sight, sound or smell of each other.

Food is a high value resource and it is best if they do not see each other eating at present, simply because it encourages feelings of competition which you are trying to limit. Feeding them in sight of each other when they are not getting along well is likely to cause anger and resentment.

Feeding cats in sight of each other when you are trying to introduce a new cat to the household is an old trick. But it is a different scenario to the current one your cats are in, They already know each other, so they do not need to be introduced.

The same applies to scent swapping - they already know each other's scents off by heart so there is nothing to be gained at present and in fact it is probably making them more wound up constantly smelling each other's scents.

If the cushion trick doesn't work, use a loud noise as a distraction, such as a kid's whistle, or something musical, or get a saucepan and lid and bang them together. Do not shout at them though, it needs to be a noise that you reserve only for when they are fighting and need separating. If it is a noise they hear all the time they will get used to it and ignore it.

Please ask your partner not to handle the cats when they are upset after a fight, it is asking for trouble and could cause permanent damage in the trust between him and the cat concerned. [I am sorry you had a similar problem with a previous cat.] Cats do hate being handled when they are wound up.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> I am sorry it is difficult for you @MaisieD.
> 
> Yes, I would allow them to see each other, for short supervised periods each day, but not when they are eating. But if they are growling aggressively every time they are together then they should be kept apart until the Zylkene has had a chance to work. Do you also have plug in Pet Remedy diffusers?.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much.

Ok, today we stopped them seeing eachother to eat. Because yesterday when eating they were terrified. The more sassy one is now unusually timid towards the timid one and she wouldn't come near her bowl and stayed about 2 metres away on the stairs.

We have feliway friends plugged in on the landing upstairs and in the living room where one of the cats always is. They had them in about 5 days. The zyklene I think is since Saturday.

I'm just worried what if these things don't help. I don't dare mix them even without food as I can tell they're both still highly stressed. They had the first fight last Sunday's after the dog spooked them, then 3 days later after 3 days separating them they got our and had a fight straight away, no food involved just another random fight. They both seem so much more timid and anxious since rush second fight. It's been 8 days now since the first one and we've swapped rooms twice a day to smell eachother, let them eat with the door ajar since Thursday. A few times they've eaten fine but they constantly stop eating and look up at the other cat nervously, then eat again. They just seem extremely hyper vigilant and on edge when near eachother but when separate the one having the run of the house seems on edge too.6

I don't know what to do for the best, let them see eachother, not see eachother...

Thank our for your help.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@MaisieD - they sound so het up and edgy that really it would best if they could be kept completely apart, not see each other, not smell each other's scent and not have to eat near each other.

They need time apart so they can stop thinking about each other, stop worrying all the time they might be attacked. The more they see each other the worse it will get at present.

I appreciate it is not easy to keep them separate, but if you can manage it, it will help. As things are so fraught, I would keep them apart for a week. That should give a fair chance of them being a lot calmer. They need a chance to forget all the aggro.

Then I would start with very small sessions of them being able to be in the same room. But do not feed them together or play with them together. Everything needs to be very low key and calm. The odd hiss is Ok, but anything more than that e.g a lot of hissing or any growling and you swiftly separate them to different parts of the house again.

Basically your role will be to keep a lid on things when you bring the cats back together, so things can't go pear shaped. Do not wait until an actual fight has broken out. Because that will undo all the good work that a week apart has done for them.

I would also get something stronger than Feliway for them. Feliway is OK in some milder situations, but not this one. A Pet Remedy diffuser, or Beaphar Calming spot-on will be more effective for calming their shattered nerves.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> @MaisieD - they sound so het up and edgy that really it would best if they could be kept completely apart, not see each other, not smell each other's scent and not have to eat near each other.
> 
> They need time apart so they can stop thinking about each other, stop worrying all the time they might be attacked. The more they see each other the worse it will get at present.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much.

Yes, their fight on the Sunday was awful but after 48 hours apart they seemed a lot less stressed. Then Wednesday they bumped into eachother by accident and a huge fight broke our, not as bad as the Sunday but still awful. Since that one they've not been the same. Both very anxious and jumpy. If they see eachother one won't go near them even with a gate between them. So yes separating completely is a good idea but the thing is how do I do that? Surely I can't keep one cooped up in a room downstairs and the other upstairs they'll claw and meow all day to come our? 
We've been leaving one in the living room at night, and the other in our daughters room and the one upstairs can come out for a wee, drink etc where as the one in living room stays in there with everything they need as it's a large room. Then in the morning we swap them and then at night time we swap them over for the night. So each one can have a walk about and stay in our daughters room once a day. My daughters room is tiny so that cat who's upstairs can stay in her room but option to walk about knowing the other cat is away safely in a locked living room with a baby gate on the door. Taking no chances after it blew open last week and one got out and a fight broke out again on Wednesday. I'm not sure how else to do it, I know for sure the cat in the living room would cry if locked in there for a week and they've already torn all our carpet by the living room door clawing to get out so we need a new carpet when all this is over.

I don't know how after a week we would mix them without a fight. I just know for sure they'd see eachother and 1 hiss turns into a fight in seconds it seems. Hard to intervene before it gets to that stage. Could we socialise then with a gate in between but no food or toys to begin with?

I watched cat behaviourist and he said it's like intriguing a new cat all over again when they've had a fight, you take it slow but let them see eachother while eating to begin with as food is a positive. Then let them play together For short periods in a room when they first mix again as toys and treats are a positive. It's so confusing what to do.

Yes, we've got feliway friends, it said it's good for cat aggression? We've got the pet remedy spray that we put on their blankets and they've now got the calming collars by the same company that makes the spot ons you mention? The zyklene in their food each morning too.

It's really stressful and it's caused a bit of tension in the house with all the worry and extra faffing we have to do each day with the cats swapping, checking they can't get our etc and hubby bless him he does the swapping, food etc so I feel bad it's an extra job for him. I have chronic fatigue syndrome so he helps me enough.

Thank you so much for your help and advice it means a lot. I've been so upset this last week.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@MaisieD -

Yes, "re-introducing" is a bit like introducing a new cat, but the difference with your two cats is they already know each other and have fallen out badly, so you are not starting with a blank canvas as you would be if they had never met before. There is already a recent history of mistrust between them. So it is quite different in that respect, to bringing in new cat where there is no history of aggression to be overcome.

You have already tried the method you watched on line - i.e. feeding them near each other, letting them play together etc and I understood from you it did not help your cats, they were still fighting? There is not one method that works for all situations - it is a matter of 'horses for courses' - one method may suit one situation but not another. And it may be a question of trying different methods until you find one that works. There would be no point in pressing on with a method that is not bringing about a change for the better.

Which cat behaviourist did you watch - was it Jackson Galaxy? Some of his advice and methods are good & sensible, but I don't always agree with everything he says. I feel sometimes he tends to attribute human logic to cats whereas being a different species cats have their own logic.

I understand the logistics of keeping the cats apart for up to a week are not easy. What I would do if it were my cats would be use the same method of safe re-introduction I use for new introductions, and that is a mesh full height screen door fitted in a doorway or at the top or bottom of the stairs.

My OH made our screen door out of bird cage wire and white wood (a.k.a. deal) and fitted hinges to one side and a bolt the other side. If you don't have the materials or the DIY skills to make one you can buy screen doors like this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/JAROLIFT-P...hinged+mesh+screen+door&qid=1589285258&sr=8-5

An extra tall pet gate might do instead if you can be sure neither cat will try and jump over it. (the gates are not very high)

So you could try that, and if you could fit it at the top or the bottom of the stairs so each cat has has half the house you could leave the cats in one place instead of having to swap them over.

If stairs are not possible, and a room doorway has to be used then you would need to swap them over, so one cat is not stuck in one room all the time. Because being shut in a small room could cause more stress.


----------



## Catfanat (May 12, 2020)

Hi everybody I’m new to this site.
My problem is when my new younger indoor rescue Cat Aero Is the dominant cat has finished eating with my order cat kitty they both hold the ground and won’t let each other pass on the stairs or in the hallway if only they were just ignore each other I would be happy with that the new cat being Oriental has very poor eyesight so doesn’t see kitty until bumps into her then gets spooked hisses growls the attempts to leap on kitty I’ve broken this up with a water spray then Aero back in her safe room.
Feliway made her worse Beapher spot calming didn’t do anything she’s on Zylkene for the last four days.
Kitty retreats to her bedroom and sadly sulks I don’t want her to become elusive.
Does anybody know what to do to allow them to pass each other safely? Thank you


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> @MaisieD -
> 
> Yes, "re-introducing" is a bit like introducing a new cat, but the difference with your two cats is they already know each other and have fallen out badly, so you are not starting with a blank canvas as you would be if they had never met before. There is already a recent history of mistrust between them. So it is quite different in that respect, to bringing in new cat where there is no history of aggression to be overcome.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

how long would you keep them separate before allowing them to see eachother?

On the stairs I doubt it would work as they can get through the bannister. We cmhsve a baby gate on the living room door as we were feeding REM either side of it but now decided to stop letting them feed in view of eachother and today we've not let Ty rn see eachother at all because ag meal times they were growling and Angelica now won't go near her and has refused to eat and she's the sassy dominant cat too. Our timid cat is still so jumpy and scared and she's the one growling and hissing when she sees Angelica and she's the on last Wednesday, when they escaped their separate rooms, initiated the fight. I believe Angelica just wants to forget it and get along as she on Wednesday just jumped up on the bed next to her and went to sleep but Matilda started hissing and a fight broke our badly. Terrifying my poor daughter that it happened again.

I really don't know what to do for the best, I feel like I need a set plan but he's Jackson Galaxy his method hasn't helped the girls.

I shall take a look at the screen, thank you. I'm just so scared and we can't allow the girls to mix at all as a fight breaks our. We're all so upset, my anxiety and stress is churning away worried Incas this doesn't get resolved. They were so much calmer 48 hours after their first fight so I had hope but when they met by accident and had another fight, they've never been the same and that now was 6 days ago and still Matilda is stressed and anxious. It's been 9 days since the initial fight. I'm so worried I shouldn't be locking them up in separate rooms and worried if it's ok they don't see eachother. It's so worrying.

move been reading the post Beth (Sorry can't scroll up to double check your name) did and all the replies she had about her cats Luna and Nova fighting last month and it's a good read and sounds so familiar but her cats seemed to be able to be around eachother at times. We can't mix ours at all. They were best friends until this for 9 years. 
Thank you for your help.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@MaisieD - I am afraid the only way out of this deadlock is likely to be more time apart. I appreciate it is a hassle keeping them apart and stressful for everyone, but I fear nothing will change if they keep being in each other's company. Because it is just making their resentment and fear of each other more entrenched all the time.

Cats who share a home amicably do fall out sometimes. It happened to my 2 girls a few years ago after one had to be taken to the vet in an emergency, and the other one turned on her when she came home. I resolved it within 3 days but every case is different. Bethan22's cats are younger than yours and as a result may be more willing to give way and make up. My cats were even younger.

I do believe you can resolve your cats' disagreement but I expect it will take time. And you will have to be guided by the cats themselves through your observation and intuition. The main thing is to try and stay as calm as you can because if you are anxious the cats will sense that and it will make them anxious too. Our cats are very sensitive to our moods.

Are both cats on Zylkene now?


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> @MaisieD - I am afraid the only way out of this deadlock is likely to be more time apart. I appreciate it is a hassle keeping them apart and stressful for everyone, but I fear nothing will change if they keep being in each other's company. Because it is just making their resentment and fear of each other more entrenched all the time.
> 
> Cats who share a home amicably do fall out sometimes. It happened to my 2 girls a few years ago after one had to be taken to the vet in an emergency, and the other one turned on her when she came home. I resolved it within 3 days but every case is different. Bethan22's cats are younger than yours and as a result may be more willing to give way and make up. My cats were even younger.
> 
> ...


Yes, both been on zyklene now since Saturdsy morning, so 4 doses in. Both ok 1 capsule in their breakfast. 
I hoe we can resolve it, they've been together over 9 years and it's devastating.

We've kept them apart today, and will continue to. I'm just unsure how to mix them or when will we know when they're ready to mix. Will it cause more damage the longer they're apart?


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> @MaisieD - I am afraid the only way out of this deadlock is likely to be more time apart. I appreciate it is a hassle keeping them apart and stressful for everyone, but I fear nothing will change if they keep being in each other's company. Because it is just making their resentment and fear of each other more entrenched all the time.
> 
> Cats who share a home amicably do fall out sometimes. It happened to my 2 girls a few years ago after one had to be taken to the vet in an emergency, and the other one turned on her when she came home. I resolved it within 3 days but every case is different. Bethan22's cats are younger than yours and as a result may be more willing to give way and make up. My cats were even younger.
> 
> ...


Are the pet remedy diffusers any good? Better than feliway friends? I bought the friends as it said for fighting cats.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> @MaisieD - I am afraid the only way out of this deadlock is likely to be more time apart. I appreciate it is a hassle keeping them apart and stressful for everyone, but I fear nothing will change if they keep being in each other's company. Because it is just making their resentment and fear of each other more entrenched all the time.
> 
> Cats who share a home amicably do fall out sometimes. It happened to my 2 girls a few years ago after one had to be taken to the vet in an emergency, and the other one turned on her when she came home. I resolved it within 3 days but every case is different. Bethan22's cats are younger than yours and as a result may be more willing to give way and make up. My cats were even younger.
> 
> ...


Sorry, also.

We swap the girls each night as to who has the living room. Tonight it's Angelicas then and she's in there now meowing and she meows most of the night. They both usually sleep together on my daughters bed. She meows constantly and we hear her in the night if we wake up. It makes me feel awful. Matilda will claw the carpet and door when she's in the living room but she will settle. Both settle fine when it's their turn in our dish hurts bedroom and don't meow. Angelica only meows constantly in the living room.

When one has the walk of the house and the other is safe away, they go looki for the other. Example, yesterday Angelica was in the living room all day, and Matilda the more timid cat but the one who now seeks to growl and hiss at Angelica if she sees her, was at the living room door wanting to go in, she knew Angelica was in there. All day she kept pacing around by the door. No aggression but you can tell she wants to go in but yet if they've seen eachother either side of the baby gate she growls and hisses.

When Angelica is our and Matilda is away, she will go to the door and do the same but less so than Matilda. When she sees Matilda she doesn't hiss or growl but she is now anxious and refuses to go close to the baby gate to eat so has been off her food a little. So unlike her to be anxious as she's such a sassy chilled cat. It's Matilda who's always been our little timid baby and she's the smaller cat.

Are they missing eachother? Yet they fight when together or Matilda growls and hisses and she starts the fight.

Should I be keeping them in just 1 room each and not scent swapping the rooms? I just worry as they both love my daughter and her room, that's why we've been doing the swap in the morning and evening so they take it in turns. But Angelica hates the living room and cries all night. She's in there now and won't stop so we're going to have to have her out in our daughters room tonight and let Matilda sleep in there.

My husband said maybe berry night Matilda sleeps in the living room as she doesn't meow all night but during the day let Matilda have some time around the house while Angelica goes in the living room just for a few hours. During the day Angelica will meow in there but will nap, and doesn't get distressed like she does if I'm there over night.

I'm worrying about the first meet up but for now I need to stop feeling anxious about that first meet up. I saw Bethan's video of her cats fighting on her post and I got upset as my girls are like that but I'd say fat louder and more growling and they won't stop unless we intervene. So I worry our situation is hopeless.
Thank you for your help, I'm struggling with this as it's making me feel so upset and my daughters been low for a few days about it, she misses her girls together. They've slept on her bed since she was 4 and she adores them. I'm worried sick incase we don't work this out because it would break my daughters heart. I absolutely could never rehome either as we just couldn't choose as both mean so much to her and to us. I'm crying typing that. Sorry I've gone on, thank you again and Bethan for helping me. X

I've added some photos. My daughters hilarious and takes selfies with the cat's every morning when she wakes up. They crack me up.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Update.

The cats ate opposite eachother last night with a baby gate in between. One in the living room on right side of gate and other in hallway on left side of gate. Door open about 10 inches. No growling or meowing. Both ca seem a bit calmer around the house when it’s their turn to walk about and now wanting us to stroke them again. Good signs maybe that the felloway and zyklene have kicked in. I think the cat calming collars have helped since Sunday too. 

Writing this out for myself to make a note of how it’s going each week. Good to look back on it and see where I went right or wrong with this process :


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Thank you for the update @MaisieD  Good news - sounds as though things are progressing in the right direction. Just keep doing what you are doing. x


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> Thank you for the update @MaisieD  Good news - sounds as though things are progressing in the right direction. Just keep doing what you are doing. x


Thank you


----------



## pertlapertla (May 15, 2020)

chillminx said:


> Cats who share a home amicably do fall out sometimes. It happened to my 2 girls a few years ago after one had to be taken to the vet in an emergency, and the other one turned on her when she came home. I resolved it within 3 days but every case is different. Bethan22's cats are younger than yours and as a result may be more willing to give way and make up. My cats were even younger.


Hi to the thread owner and @chillminx too 
New to the forum and desperately looking for help!
Not sure if this is allowed, but wanted to ask @chillminx how you resolved the above issue as the same is happening to us now!

Our younger (5mo) Edith just came back from the vets getting spayed and her mum (2yo) Tabitha is being absolutely terrible towards her. Tabitha has hissed at Edith before after vets, but only for a second (those were short vet visits, for jabs only). This time is different, she is hissing and growling since yesterday and has chased her 2x as well.

We are keeping them apart and comforting both at times, they are eating separately (as usual, since they have different diets) and we've added a litter tray, although they are used to sharing one (since their time at the foster home).

Atm we only have Feliway spray but not sure it will be any help, and we also want to try with getting them comfortable around each other and them not to resent us if we are scolding them.

The mum also seems to be growling at the carrier and blanket that was in it, plus the collar Edith got not to lick her wounds. Ive put the blanked in the wash and cleaned + sprayed the carrier with Feliway. And we are being careful with the collar around the mum.

Very exhausting as baby Edith is being totally cool and misses her mum, also was being so brave yesterday fighting the drowsiness and trying to be herself again fast.

Any help is much appreciated!

Many thanks,
Petra


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

pertlapertla said:


> Hi to the thread owner and @chillminx too
> New to the forum and desperately looking for help!
> Not sure if this is allowed, but wanted to ask @chillminx how you resolved the above issue as the same is happening to us now!
> 
> ...


I hope you can resolve things. I haven't resolved things as yet, the issue is sadly ongoing in our house with our girls.


----------



## pertlapertla (May 15, 2020)

MaisieD said:


> I hope you can resolve things. I haven't resolved things as yet, the issue is sadly ongoing in our house with our girls.


Thank you so much!
And really sorry to hear you are still dealing with the issue 
Seems it needs a lot of time and effort to resolve!
Keep being strong!


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

pertlapertla said:


> Thank you so much!
> And really sorry to hear you are still dealing with the issue
> Seems it needs a lot of time and effort to resolve!
> Keep being strong!


It does require a lot of time and patience.

Good luck


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Update.

Yesterday they fed opposite eachother with the baby gate. The door open about 10 inches still. Angelica the more dominant cat has very much turned into the timid cat as she still seemed a bit anxious, and she hates her turn in the living room. We’re finding it hard to get her in there when we swap as she will run and hide.

Last night my daughter decided to sort out under her bed. Angelica would usually just sit and watch but no she became extremely stressed, ears back and meowing to let us know she was not happy. She went to bed next to my daughter quite stressed out. Today she’s still not herself after last nights tidying up, meowing a bit and jumpy, ears back. So unlike her. Angelica has always been sensitive to people’s emotions. In the past if I’ve cried or even talked loud she will run and head bop me with a meow. She hates loud noises or people upset. Maybe the noise last night stressed her while my daughter sorted out her bedroom. This morning she’s hiding under my sons bed, refusing to go into the living room and isn’t very happy so we’re giving her space and hoping she goes in there in time then we can let Matilda have her walk around the house as she was away all night in the living room.

It feels like 2 steps forward and 10 back: it’s 2 weeks tomorrow since it all began.

They’ve done 10 days on the zyklene and I’m not sure I’d buy it again because Angelica is still rather timid. I think it’s helped somewhat. I’ve also bought a pet remedy diffuser in the living room and unplugged the felliway friends for now.

They’re definitely calmer than they were but Angelica is now unhappy and jumpy again after last night. its unlike her, she wouldn’t usually be so stressed over things or for so long.

Will this ever get better?


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

View attachment 439847
Update.

Both cats seem much calmer but on Friday night when my daughter had Angelica in her room, she decided to tidy under her bed. Lots of noise moving things about and bags rustling. Angelica got really stressed out, eats back and meowing distressed. She's still not come down from that. Bizarre. She's still really stressed. It seems she goes almost back to her usual self then something easily stresses her and sets us back with her.

Angelica is still meowing all day when it's her turn in the living room so that's hard to hear. Our daughter goes in to spend time with her but once she leaves she cries again loud.

Angelica is the larger cat, sassy and dominant but since their second encounter 11 days ago when they accidently met and a fight broke out again, she's become so timid. Our timid cat Matilda was highly stressed for a week after that second fight but she's now so much better. I'd say almost back to her normal calm self. We can touch her now without her dipping her head down and she now seems confident. She a week ago growled and hissed at Angelica when they were eating either side of the gate but since then she's been fine. Angelica though since that nasty growl at her, she's anxious coming down to eat opposite Matilda. There's a baby gate between them but she's still anxious but now we feed Angelica when she's in the living room and she comes to the bowl fine.

They ate their breakfast much closer to eachother today either side of the gate. They looked at eachother briefly but nothing negative. Angelica at the end lift her head as Matilda walked away after she finished, and they both locked eyes and Angelica stared at her dead on. No hissing but quite a long stare then she walked away. It scared me for a minute that she was going to growl or jump the gate lol.

it's a positive though I guess. Both girls are improving. It's so frustrating Angelica has setbacks from things around the house stressing her. My daughter didn't think fishing under her bed would be a trigger for her but she feels bad now Angelicas stressed agin, I've told her it's not her fault.
We finished our box of zyklene at the weekend. I'd say it's helped Matilda but Angelica I'm not so sure. So I've switched to the yucalm powders Bethan advised. I've got a pet remedy diffuser in the living room now for when Matilda is in there over night and the Angelica gets the benefit when she's in there during the day. Felliway friends is still plugged in on the landing and hallway downstairs. Their calming collars help, within a day or so both cats were calmer wearing them.

So we're 15 days in now. I feel we've made no progress but maybe we have and I can't see it.

Please ignore the floor. Angelica has torn at the carpet so hubby's stuck cardboard there to try and save it lol. This is costing us a small fortune haha.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi @MaisieD and thank you for the update. It sounds from what you say that there is progress being made, albeit quite slowly. It's a good idea to switch Angelica to the Yucalm if the Zylkene did not seem to help.

As the Zylkene seemed to help Matilda I would keep her on it tbh. A month is the usual length of time to really see the full effects.

I am glad you've stopped feeding Angelica within view of Matilda. That's a definite step forward. It helped immensely with my two girls when they fell out with each other, to stop feeding them in the same room and out of sight of each other.

I hope the relationship of your two continues to improve.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> Hi @MaisieD and thank you for the update. It sounds from what you say that there is progress being made, albeit quite slowly. It's a good idea to switch Angelica to the Yucalm if the Zylkene did not seem to help.
> 
> As the Zylkene seemed to help Matilda I would keep her on it tbh. A month is the usual length of time to really see the full effects.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

We started them both on Yucalm this morning so we will see how that goes.

Well tonight we made progress. We had the baby gate between them and after their food they went up to the gate sticking their faces almost though the bats and were sniffing eachother nose to nose for a good few minutes. No growling or hissing. This is the closest they've been in 2 weeks. Hubby said they both looked so calm too. I'm taking this as a good sign as no aggression shown by either.

Then tonight after we swapped and let Angelica out of the living room for the night and put Matilda in there. Angelica was so stressed. Ears back, meowing I'd we even looked at her. She has been so stressed since my daughter cleaned under her bed sorting our boxes etc it's since then Angelicas appeared super stressed. Last night she appeared much calmer again but tonight she's got her ears pinned back, very stressed and meowing if we go to stroke her. She keeps going to the living room door to hear Matilda meow. Matilda meows a bit but then settles and is good in the living room where as Angelica meows all day to be let out. We swap them in the morning and night and let them each have time out around the house while the other is away. Angelica just hates being alone so meows all day. My daughter goes in every afternoon and sits with her then she stops.

So she had the good meet with Matilda tonight via the gate but now tonight she's super stressed. I've had to tell everyone to talk quiet, no loud music etc. I wonder why she keeps appearing so stressed out. It started Friday after my daughter cleaned under her bed.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I don't know why your daughter cleaning under her bed triggered Angelica's stress. Perhaps it was because it was an unusual act, not a run of the mill incident and because she is on edge it tipped her over as it were. 

It is best to 'play' to each cat's strength. e.g. I wouldn't leave Angelica shut in the living room to meow all day, as it will just be adding her stress. But as Matilda copes better shut in the living room, then it is best if Matilda stays there, and Angelica has the run of the house all day. Someone can always sit with Matilda if she wants company.

If you want Matilda to have a bit of time to mooch around the house eg. in the evening, it is best for Angelica to be shut in one room (not the living room) with your daughter or other family member while Matilda roams the house for an hour.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Y


chillminx said:


> I don't know why your daughter cleaning under her bed triggered Angelica's stress. Perhaps it was because it was an unusual act, not a run of the mill incident and because she is on edge it tipped her over as it were.
> 
> It is best to 'play' to each cat's strength. e.g. I wouldn't leave Angelica shut in the living room to meow all day, as it will just be adding her stress. But as Matilda copes better shut in the living room, then it is best if Matilda stays there, and Angelica has the run of the house all day. Someone can always sit with Matilda if she wants company.
> 
> If you want Matilda to have a bit of time to mooch around the house eg. in the evening, it is best for Angelica to be shut in one room (not the living room) with your daughter or other family member while Matilda roams the house for an hour.


Yes, to be honest I've been thinking is the living room the big trigger for Angelicas stress and that's why she's so jumpy at night when she has her time out around the house with us. She's stressed maybe after being in the living room all afternoon.

I think we may do that and make sure whoever's room Angelica is in when Matilda has time around the house, that Angelica cannot get out of their room, because she's really hating the living room. We stopped putting her in their over night, we used to take it in turns but she would meow all night so Matilda sleeps in the living room every night. She's quiet when in our daughters room and around the house. She's become incredibly clingy to my daughter. She used to be really sassy and independent before this and Matilda was closest to my daughter.

I just wasn't sure whether it was cruel to have Matilda in the living room day and night. We could let her out during the day a few times if my daughter can keep Angelica safe in her bed room and not accidently leave her door open. We've come this far now and they're doing so well that I don't want any accidents.

They again tonight at dinner sniffed eachothers noses through the baby gate bars, Angelica even tapped Matilda on the head and she didn't flinch. They could not have done that a week ago, Matilda last week growled and hissed just at the sight of Angelica. So I'm hopeful the plan we've had is working well. We will keep going as we are for another week then maybe try a 5 minute play in the same room downstairs with their new toys neither have seen yet. Nervous but it has to happen sometime, I'm just afraid of another fight and we will be right back to square one. That noise is still fresh in my mind of their fight. Something I won't forget in a hurry lol.

Thank you for your advice, you've been very helpful x


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

MaisieD said:


> Y
> 
> Yes, to be honest I've been thinking is the living room the big trigger for Angelicas stress and that's why she's so jumpy at night when she has her time out around the house with us. She's stressed maybe after being in the living room all afternoon.
> 
> ...


How are you getting on with your girls @MaisieD ? Sorry I've not been able to reply much I've been taking some time out of being online. Hope things are improving? xx


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Bethanjane22 said:


> How are you getting on with your girls @MaisieD ? Sorry I've not been able to reply much I've been taking some time out of being online. Hope things are improving? xx


Hi,

We've not dared but them in a room together yet to see how they are. We're still keeping them separate but each morning and night they feed either side of a baby gate and see eachother. The first time 2 weeks ago Matilda growled nastily and Angelica ran away. But since then we've had them eating opposite eachother quite well, they even now will put their faces against the cats and sniff eachothers faces with no aggression. I'm hoping that's a good sign for us. We're 3 weeks into this, in hoping we can try and mix then soon but I'm worried about trying incase they fight get hurt and we have to start all over again.

I hope you're doing well and your girls are continuing to improve x


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Update.

The girls are still apart. We swap them regular so Angelica doesn’t have much time in the living room and she’s definitely less stressed. 

It’s been 4 weeks now. We’re still afraid to mix them even though they’re going to the gate sniffing eachother and touching noses without any growling or hissing. We may continue this week with that and then do a play date in the living room with their new toys at the weekend. I feel anxious just thinking about doing that but I guess 4 weeks is a long time and we have to give it a try. I’m just worried Incase they fight and all our progress is undone.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi @MaisieD - thank you for the update. I'm glad things are going better with the girls. And that Angelica is having less time in the living room, so her stress levels are lower.

Tbh, I really wouldn't bring them together for a play date. A play situation for a cat is just a facsimile of when they hunt and as with all predators when they're hunting they're instinctively keyed up, alert, on edge, wary etc. The presence of new toys is potentially going to exacerbate any wariness or tension between your two girls.

When you decide the time is right for them to be together the best thing is to just open all the internal doors and let the girls please themselves where they go in the house. If they choose to be in the same room, that's fine. If they prefer to avoid each other (for now) that's fine too. Be as calm as you can so the girls don't sense any tension, but at the same time you will need to be alert for any signs of squabbling, so you can nip it in the bud with distracting treats.

The odd hiss or paw wave from either of your girls is OK, as long as it doesn't go any further. My girls (sisters) have a paw wave with each other now and then, or a hiss or two. When this happens it is nearly always at a meal time when they are waiting for food. They are fed apart in their own spots, (adult cats are often more comfortable with this arrangement) but they both wait at my feet while I am serving their food. I say to them "now girls, be nice to each other please!" and this stops any further displays of competition and resource protection.


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

I would definitely agree with @chillminx , we found playing with our together made them more likely to lash out at one another. We had a couple of scary scraps when toys were involved. Even now I'm wary of playing with them together. I tend to play with them separately whenever I can. So sadly playtime has decreased in our house because I find it hard to get them alone to play! They do have the odd chase session with one another, but I make sure to keep an eye on them as Luna tends to get nervous if Nova gets a bit too intense.

We found letting them roam around and decide where they wanted to be was best, and if there was food or treats involved they were much happier together.

We get daily paw waves and slaps from them, usually around meal times too. They get a bit frustrated waiting for their food.

We tried feeding ours separately when they fell out but neither would eat their food if they couldn't see one another. So to this day they still eat together (about a meter apart).

I would also advise keeping as calm as you can and just act as normally as possible. My anxiety definitely made ours more edgy around each other.

I'm hopeful you can resolve this and get your girls back to being friends soon xx


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Excellent advice from @Bethanjane22 .


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> Hi @MaisieD - thank you for the update. I'm glad things are going better with the girls. And that Angelica is having less time in the living room, so her stress levels are lower.
> 
> Tbh, I really wouldn't bring them together for a play date. A play situation for a cat is just a facsimile of when they hunt and as with all predators when they're hunting they're instinctively keyed up, alert, on edge, wary etc. The presence of new toys is potentially going to exacerbate any wariness or tension between your two girls.
> 
> ...


Great advice, thank you.

Is 4 weeks too long for cats to be apart? It won't have made things more difficult? I do worry about opening the doors and letting them walk about. I'm worried they'll both find eachother and a fight break out instantly. As their last fight was sudden and it just breaks out so fast. Maybe having time apart has healed that though and they may not freak out seeing eachother.

I think for the rest of the week we will let them see eachother with the baby gate and analyse their behaviour. Sometimes Angelica backs off when Matildas at the gate, no hissing but she will stand back, then other times she comes forward and sniffs or paws her head friendly: Matilda who was the more timid before this, she was the one who was growling and hissing a few weeks ago at the gate but she never does that now. Angelica who was the more dominant cat is now more timid and so sensitive to any noise, if my son has his tv loud she will meow a lot and ears back so I'm forever telling everyone to calm things down.

It's definitely been a stressful 4 weeks keeping them apart in different rooms and swapping them over, and all the worries it's brought, but hopefully it'll all work out, I really hope so. I just want to have my cats be themselves, doing their own things and I want my living room back lol.

Thank you for all your help x


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Bethanjane22 said:


> I would definitely agree with @chillminx , we found playing with our together made them more likely to lash out at one another. We had a couple of scary scraps when toys were involved. Even now I'm wary of playing with them together. I tend to play with them separately whenever I can. So sadly playtime has decreased in our house because I find it hard to get them alone to play! They do have the odd chase session with one another, but I make sure to keep an eye on them as Luna tends to get nervous if Nova gets a bit too intense.
> 
> We found letting them roam around and decide where they wanted to be was best, and if there was food or treats involved they were much happier together.
> 
> ...


Thank you Bethan,

Ok, so would you advise just letting them walk around? They always go to my daughters room as it was when they slept together and spent most of their time, but it's also where both fights broke out days apart.

Their fights broke out so fast I'm scared of therr being no warning when we first put them together. I'm also worried if 4 weeks apart may have caused more issues. When we first separated them we would try to let the see eachother via a baby gate but Matilda would growl and hiss and scare Angelica. Their roles changed and Angelica now became the timid cat and she was always the boss. We then a couple of weeks ago after a week fully apart not seeing eachother, fed them either side of then ahh gate, each day opening the door a little more while they fed. Now the door is wide open and they eat directly opposite eachother with the baby gate in between them. No growling or hissing from Matilda like we had at the beginning. Angelica sometimes backs off like she is a tad timid but nothing major. Matilda seems fine. I think they're better but I'm still worried I guess that they'll mix, fight in seconds and we're back to square one then I will be scared we need to rehome one and I'd never ever want to do that.

I'm glad things are getting much better for your girls other than play times. I know how anxious and worried you were and you're right they do absorb our stress and that's why when we do mix them hubby and daughter said they'll be around them as I'd get too anxious if a fight breaking out as it really frightened me last time. 
Thank you for your helpful reply xxx


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

MaisieD said:


> Thank you Bethan,
> 
> Ok, so would you advise just letting them walk around? They always go to my daughters room as it was when they slept together and spent most of their time, but it's also where both fights broke out days apart.
> 
> ...


We would let our two eat their food near one another and then after food they would usually be quite pre-occupied with grooming themselves and would sit fairly close by. Why don't you try feeding them with the door open and then just let them do their own thing afterwards? Be near by to intervene if you need to. Just remember, if a fight does break out, you can remove the scared cat to their safe space to calm down, and then try again. Just keep an eye on them, and if they swipe or hiss once or twice, then that is fine, however if they persist then I would separate and then try them again.

Give them both some treats when they are together so they associate the treats with being together. Speak softly to them, try to stay calm and maybe have you daughter there with you as they are both so bonded with her, she may act as a sense of reassurance for them.

Our girls were able to be together fairly quickly, but we did have some setbacks, which resulted in us separating again and trying it again. You just need to keep an eye on their body language and look for any signs of potential aggression or fear (flat ears, puffed tail, arched back etc.)

I think if you keep them completely separated for too long then it may take them longer to return to tolerating one another. Be brave, you can do this. Just remember, if it doesn't work this time, you can always try again :Cat

Rehoming is the last resort option for us. We have agreed that if they fall out again soon, we will go through it all again and work with them. However if it is something that is going to happen continually, we have agreed that we would have to look at rehoming one of them. Something I hope never has to happen as I wouldn't know which one to rehome. My partner said he'd rather keep Nova, as she is the more confident and outgoing of the two, whereas Luna is a bit of a scaredy cat, gets anxious and is only really bonded with me. Whereas Nova is bonded with my partner too. I just couldn't imagine Luna living somewhere else! It breaks my heart to even think about it.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Today’s update. 
We decided to brave it and we let Angelica out of her shift in the living room and we fed both cats together a metre apart in the hallway. Angelica even ran up to Matilda and they sniffed eachothers bums and noses haha. 

No growling, hissing or staring. My daughter was standing there saying good girls over and over, lots of treats. Lots of praise and rewards seemed to help. Once they’d finished eating Angelica went and sat on the stairs half way up and my daughter directed Matilda to the living room and then we closed the door. They did 5 minutes or so and it went really well. I cried happy tears watching lol.

I was so anxious, so I stayed upstairs in my room with the door shut and watched over FaceTime haha. Hubby and daughter team did well. 

It’s been almost 5 weeks since they had their fight so I’m crying happy tears, Its been so upsetting keeping them apart and the memory of how bad their fights were shook us all up so today I was scared stiff to give this a try but it worked. 

I just thought I’d update you and show you some photos I took on Facetime haha. 

How long would you advise this to be done for every evening? I’m not sure when we will know it’s safe to just let them walk around together but I guess for now we just stick to this meeting once a day and not think too far ahead. Still keep them in separate rooms and mixing for 5 minutes and build that up each day. 

Thank you all for your help x


----------



## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@MaisieD 
I don't have an answer to your question but just wanted to say, very glad to see you have progress ☘


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Summercat said:


> @MaisieD
> I don't have an answer to your question but just wanted to say, very glad to see you have progress ☘


Thank you


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@MaisieD - excellent news! I am so happy for you, well done! 

I would've thought it was Ok by now to let them meet more than once a day, and for longer than 5 minutes at a time. But you know them, and you must therefore go with your gut instinct. Better to err on the side of caution than risk being too hasty. 

This good news has really cheered me up. xx


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> @MaisieD - excellent news! I am so happy for you, well done!
> 
> I would've thought it was Ok by now to let them meet more than once a day now, and for longer than 5 minutes at a time. But you know them, and you must therefore go with your gut instinct. Better to err on the side of caution than risk being too hasty.
> 
> This good news has really cheered me up. xx


Aww thank you so much.

We may do a lunchtime mix shortly and then again at teatime. They've slept in this morning so skipped breakfast. Angelica is snoring away on my daughters bed. Hopefully it'll go well again. I guess we should keep doing this for a couple of weeks and then build it up from there.

I got so emotional seeing them together. It's been a hard 5 weeks for us all xx


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

MaisieD said:


> Aww thank you so much.
> 
> We may do a lunchtime mix shortly and then again at teatime. They've slept in this morning so skipped breakfast. Angelica is snoring away on my daughters bed. Hopefully it'll go well again. I guess we should keep doing this for a couple of weeks and then build it up from there.
> 
> I got so emotional seeing them together. It's been a hard 5 weeks for us all xx


Im so glad things are going in the right direction with your girls!

Time and patience goes a long way, and they will let you know if they're not happy.

We've had a great few weeks with our girls. Tonight however we almost had an episode, as a neighborhood cat walked along the fence that runs perpendicular to our garden and peered it's head over into our garden. This set Luna off hissing which in turn got Nova's attention. They both had puffy tails and puffed up spines. Thankfully we shooed the cat away and distracted the girls with treats and calm voices.

They seem fine now, and even had a mini play chase session around one of the trees in the garden :Cat

Where we live we have one garden that runs along our garden and then 2 who's ends meet up with the side of our garden. So it's hard to prevent intruders peering over into our garden.


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

@MaisieD I was just wondering how things are going with you two girls? :Cat


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Hi,

Thank you for asking. Little update.

The girls are still mixing twice a day for 10 minutes while they eat and it’s going well. Yesterday though Matilda had a little pop at Angelica, went to run at her and swiped her with her paw. Angelica meowed and ran off then it stopped as daughter stood in to stop Matilda chasing.

It’s been 6 weeks now so I’m worrying will they ever mix again. We’ve tried doing longer periods together. At the weekend after they age we tried to pop them both into the living room to have a bit more time together . After just 2 minutes Angelica stared at Matilda and she meowed and Matilda ran out. They weren’t happy. Mixing them during meals has gone amazing they eat so well together and sniff eachother, lick eachother and no aggression but take them to the living room or take food out of the equation and they stare and don’t seem happy bear eachother. We have to constantly distract with treats and that’s stood the stares and atmosphere, they are fine together then. No actual fights but a swipe once or twice or moody meow. 

My daughter said she doesn’t dare let them walk around the house together as she thinks they’d fight even though they’ve come a long way. So I feel a bit worried it’s been over 6 weeks and although in the last 2 weeks we’ve made progress I worry it’s not enough.

We are still keeping them in 2 separate rooms and swapping so twice a day so each see my daughter and get a run of the house while the other is secure in the living room. We try to keep Angelicas stay in the living room to a minimum as she gets stressed as she’s become so clingy to my daughter, extremely clingy. My daughter can’t go anywhere she has Angelica crying outside the shower or outside the kitchen if daughters in there haha. She used to be the sassy I need no one cat too.

I just wish we could open the doors and let them walk around but I know we can’t as that could undo all our progress and my daughter said she does not want to risk that. We would end up at square one again with them stressed and growling.

I hope your girls are continuing to do well x


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@MaisieD - it sounds as though you are continuing to make progress which is brilliant! Well done. 

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about the odd swipe or moody miaow, because my 2 girls quite often do that to each other and stop as soon as I tell them to. But of course you know your girls best and if you don't want to risk more contact yet I fully understand.

Bear in mind that cats are big 'bearers of grudges' when it comes to cats they have fallen out with. They not do forgive each other easily and if there has been a serious falling out they may continue to grumble about it to each other for a while without it leading to another full blown fight. Though the potential is there for a fight, some of the behaviour is a warning to the other cat saying, "just you watch it mate".


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> @MaisieD - it sounds as though you are continuing to make progress which is brilliant! Well done.
> 
> Personally I wouldn't be too worried about the odd swipe or moody miaow, because my 2 girls quite often do that to each other and stop as soon as I tell them to. But of course you know your girls best and if you don't want to risk more contact yet I fully understand.
> 
> Bear in mind that cats are big 'bearers of grudges' when it comes to cats they have fallen out with. They not do forgive each other easily and if there has been a serious falling out they may continue to grumble about it to each other for a while without it leading to another full blown fight. Though the potential is there for a fight, some of the behaviour is a warning to the other cat saying, "just you watch it mate".


Thank you.

I feel so deflated tonight. It's been 7 weeks since their fight. We separated them and after 2 weeks we tried a baby gate between them and at first Matilda (who uses to be the timid one of the 2, Angelica was the dominant one). Matilda would growl nastily and hiss through the gate so we stopped for a week or 2. Then we started again feeding them with the gate inbetween. It went well, no hissing etc. They'd sniff eachother and be ok. Then 2 weeks ago we started letting them both out in the hallway, fed them together, all fine. They'd go up to eachother and sniff eachothers behind, face etc Matilda didn't hiss and they were ok.
The last few days though Matilda suddenly has changed. She will eat with Angelica fine still, sniff etc but as soon as feeding times over she will have wide eyes and stare at Angelica. Yesterday she even ran towards Angelica and Angelica Dan a few steps up the stairs to get away and my daughter stood between them and then Matilda went in her living room for the night.

Tonight we put their food out in the hallway then as hubby opened the door Matilda charged our past him, she chased poor Nagelica onto the landing uosatairs and hissed at her twice. My daughter ran uosayairs and said no, stop! Then she picked Matilda up and carried her downstairs, she didn't hurt my daughter or get nasty. My daughter then pooped her behind the gate and tonight we fed them either side of it instead of together in the hall.

We now feel so deflated. We've worked so hard and suddenly Matilda has gone back to how she was initially after the fight. Wide eyes and glaring at Angelica. My daughter felt a bit upset afterwards, Angelica has become so attaches to her she cries if my daughter takes a shower she can't be without her. Angelica has become the timid one now and my daughter said she's certain Angelica would mix with Matilda fine now as she's not angry or anything around Matilda. It's Matilda that seems to go at Angelica. She's always been the little baby, the one who was timid and would never dare start a fight with Angelica. Angelica is far bigger and was dominant.
We're now unsure how to go forward. We feel at a loss if Matilda is going to try and instigate a fight now each time she's with Angelica. That's why we didn't dare mix them after that and they ate either side of the gate instead. We're now worried will they ever mix again and I feel sick to my stomach worried:l. We made so much progress and even Matilda seemed ok around Angelica. We were mixing them for 10 minutes twice a day at meal times and let them sniff eachother and have treats afterwards but without treats to distract now Matildas eyes grow and she behaves like this the last few days. It is so worrying.

My husband and daughter said it wasn't anywhere near as bad as their initial fight and they didn't actually fight but Matilda did chase Angelica upstairs, hissing and wide eyes. If my daughter hadn't picked Matilda up (which I told her she shouldn't have done but she said she was afraid of a fight) maybe a fight would have started. I was in another room at the time but heard the hissing.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear this @MaisieD.

Is it important the girls eat together?

As I have mentioned before food can so often become an issue between two cats that have fallen out. Matilda's behaviour today to Angelica sounds exactly like a cat acting protectively towards their food resources. Not only the food itself, but their eating space.

My two girls used to do this often with each other (one more than the other) until I began feeding them in different rooms and at different times.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Little update.

The girls are still eating together nicely. We have to feed them together as it’s the only way they’ll mix with eachother without a fight. When eating they’re lovely together. It’s our opportunity to mix them and they really are calm during and just after. 

They’re still eating together as I said, in the hallway. Lots of sniffing eachother, no aggression. Once they’ve eaten we give treats and my daughter is alway there with hubby and the girls are most calm with my daughter. What seems to happen, once Angelicas had enough time she goes upstairs to my daughters room, but once on her way upstairs (she walks up slowly) Matildas ears pin back and she will chase Angelica upstairs. Once on the landing they will hiss, Angelica hissed last night when Matilda chased her to the top step as she was afraid, and then we break it up because a fight is imminent. Their initial fight was on the landing upstairs so I think that’s why it’s a place they still show aggression. I just don’t understand why Matilda flips and suddenly her ears and eyes become alert. 

Angelica is fine, she won’t fight, despite being the more dominant she’s the most laid back. Matilda was the more timid cat but she now is the one that initiates any hissing, chasing or fighting. 

So we’re doing these meet ups twice a day at mealtime. It’s been 2 months and we’re all worried sick it won’t resolve if they always end up with a chase upstairs due to Matilda becoming alerted when she sees Angelica go upstairs. She seeks to be the issue. Separate they’re both calm and doing well. We swap rooms every lunchtime and then in the evening. Matilda always sleeps in the living room and Angelica in daughters room at night. 

It’s getting me down as my living room stinks as Matilda has had a few accidents outside her tray recently. Plus our living room has been occupied by one of the cats daily for 2 months. My daughter goes in there during the day to sit with Angelica whole she has her daytime stint in there. We’re just fed up and want them to just mix around the house like they used to but I’m losing hope and feel like my living room will stink and be ruined at this rate. It was such a lovely room. 

I just don’t know what our next move should be. Hubby said nothings changing, we’ve been feeding them together twice a day for weeks now and not taken another step but how can we if Matilda after about 10 minutes goes from sniffing and calm with Angelica, to ears back, eyes wide and chases her upstairs causing poor Angelica to get scared. We’ve been close to a few fights so we interrupt at the hissing before it breaks out as we’re all afraid if they have a fight like their initial one we’re back to square one and we’ve worked so hard for 2 months to get to this stage.

Should I give up hope?


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hello @MaisieD - thank you for the update.

I'm pleased to hear the girls are eating together calmly. 

Reading your post my only concern is that the longer the girls each occupy different parts of the house most of the day, every day, the more the risk they will become protective about what they see as their own territory and the less they will want the other cat to share "their" part of the house. Cats are such territorial creatures by nature, that giving them their own spaces for too long can become counter productive.

But I do appreciate that you can't have them together if they fight constantly.

It sounds as though Matilda is chasing Angelica away from what she now regards as her territory downstairs. Angelica being the more confident, laid-back cat of the two, perhaps doesn't feel the need to be so protective of what she sees as her territory upstairs. She reacts defensively to Matilda's aggression, but does not initiate it herself.

Matilda is probably more fearful of Angelica taking over her territory and pushing her out, than Angelica fears Matilda doing it to her. So Matilda has become more assertive from fear.

I hope it will be possible to find a way of getting the girls to share the house very soon.

What calming products do you have Matilda on at present ? Is she still on Zylkene? Or Yucalm?


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> Hello @MaisieD - thank you for the update.
> 
> I'm pleased to hear the girls are eating together calmly.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

We had them in the living room together the last 2 weekends with my daughter and husband, both times went wells but yes we still can't just let them roam the house as fights would break out because of Matilda instigating them.

My living room now stinks of cat wee despite changing the litter often as Matildas had some accidents. I wish we had a spare room for the cat to sleep in.

It's been over 2 months now and I'm worried will we ever get them back together fully. They're fine with eachother at meal times and now we ag the weekends sit with them in the living room which is progress but is it normal to take so long? I know it took a while for Bethan.

Yes both cats have the cat calming collars and Yucalm. Feliway friends plugged in hallway and the living room. Also got a pet remedy one on the landing upstairs. Both fats are definitely much calmer in themselves but together they're fine to a point then Matilda will chase.

it is really getting me down, because I just miss them being fine together and I hate my living room being out of bounds, and now I need a new carpet as they've torn it by the door and it smells. So frustrating. I don't mind a new carpet but I just wish they were together. This year has been far from normal I know, everyone's home so the house is busy, no free rooms other than our living room so we're limited and we've done our best. It's just a worry of what steps do we make next to resolve this or is it a case of continue slow and steady.
Thank you for your reply.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

It sounds as though they are spending more time together without fighting so that is good news.  

I am wondering whether things might change more (for the better) once the lockdown is over and your household (like most others) is back to normal, with you going out to work, going out socially etc, so the girls have the house to themselves for parts of every day. There will be less stimulus that way and the quiet atmosphere may be what will help them relax with each other.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> It sounds as though they are spending more time together without fighting so that is good news.
> 
> I am wondering whether things might change more (for the better) once the lockdown is over and your household (like most others) is back to normal, with you going out to work, going out socially etc, so the girls have the house to themselves for parts of every day. There will be less stimulus that way and the quiet atmosphere may be what will help them relax with each other.


Yes I hope so. Once lockdown lifts then it will be just me at home which is scary if they fight so I'd not feel comfortable having them out around the house together if I was home alone but I hope before then things go back to normal with them.

I keep hearing the longer you keep them apart the more chance they'll not mix again and that just gives me anxiety. I feel so guilty because Matilda sleeps in the living room all night, then late morning she comes out and they eat in the hallway, then Angelica goes in t her living room until 5pm. So that Matilda can walk around the house and sit with my daughter on her bed, her favourite spot. So they both get around the house time. Then Matilda goes back in the living room for the night and Angelica is back out. Angelica hates the living room and can get distressed some days so Matilda has the living room to sleep in. I just feel so worried and guilty having them do a stint in one room each. I know they both get house time but I feel bad. I don't know what other option we have though right now as they'll fight if allowed out all around the house.

Things have improved but we feel we're stalled at this stage and don't know how to move forward. I just wish this never happened, it's been really stressful doing all this swapping of cats and cleaning the living room which now stinks and the carpet has been torn so needs replacing. Matilda is being a bugger weeing on the carpet next to her tray at times so the carpet stinks and the fumes are horrible when we open the living room door. Think I needs to invest in a carpet cleaner.

I could never rehome either of them, my daughter would be distraught as would I . So despite this being so stressful and time consuming we persevere with hope it will get better.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@MaisieD - the whole thing sounds very stressful and disruptive for you all and you have my sympathy.

I appreciate you do not want to rehome either of them. So can I suggest giving yourselves a goal of say 4 months to get them fully re-integrated? And if they are still not tolerating each other by then, enough to be left together unsupervised, that you consider dividing the house with a physical barrier and letting them each live in one half of the house so they have no direct contact with each other.

It may sound a bit drastic a solution and I would only suggest it as a last resort (as an alternative to re-homing). I decided to do this with one of my boys 7 years ago because after a year of living with me (as a rescued adult cat) he'd started fighting with my other 2 boys. I did actually rehome him to a very nice lady, but it soon broke down because the new owner was diagnosed with cancer and felt too ill to look after him. I could not face rehoming my cat again, so he came back to live with me. But it had to be on the basis that he lived separately from the others upstairs.

So my OH installed a full height door at the top of the stairs. The system has actually worked very well. But it has meant that one of us has to keep my boy company upstairs in the evenings or he starts bashing at the door. He still gets outdoor time, but my other boys have always been shut indoors when he is out.

It may sound like more work than you are coping with at present, and maybe it is, until you get into a routine. But the reduction in everyone's stress levels was (and is) so considerable that it has been worth keeping him separated from the other boys permanently.


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

chillminx said:


> @MaisieD - the whole thing sounds very stressful and disruptive for you all and you have my sympathy.
> 
> I appreciate you do not want to rehome either of them. So can I suggest giving yourselves a goal of say 4 months to get them fully re-integrated? And if they are still not tolerating each other by then, enough to be left together unsupervised, that you consider dividing the house with a physical barrier and letting them each live in one half of the house so they have no direct contact with each other.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with @chillminx about setting yourself a timeframe to try and get the girls back together.

We did that, and thankfully we were able to get them back together full time now. Although I do think them being so young has helped matters. As your girls are older they are probably less forgiving.

My partner and I have also agreed that if it happens again we will work through it and try to fix it like we did before, however if it is something that continues to happen more and more often, we will have to consider other options, including rehoming one of our girls. However it is a very very VERY last resort. In the long run, I want them both to have the happiest lives they can and if that does turn out to be living somewhere else, then I know that it would be the right thing to do.

We discussed separating the house, but as we have a young child in the house, it really isn't practical, and my girls are just so attached to me, I'd have to spend my time away from my family to keep them calm and contented. Which would ultimately mean one of them would be confined to one room most of the time.

I can really sympathize with you @MaisieD , it's awful seeing them fight and it really does throw the whole dynamic off in the house.

Set yourselves a time frame and then consider your options from that point on.

I really do wish you all the best xx


----------



## Melliej (Jun 8, 2019)

Bethanjane22 said:


> I have to agree with @chillminx about setting yourself a timeframe to try and get the girls back together.
> 
> We did that, and thankfully we were able to get them back together full time now. Although I do think them being so young has helped matters. As your girls are older they are probably less forgiving.
> 
> ...


----------



## Melliej (Jun 8, 2019)

Sorry to read what’s been happening with your cats! I really can relate to everything you have said! I am going through the same and it’s been ongoing for quite some time. I have three indoor sister cats, happily living with each other for 5 years until about a year ago. Currently all are separated again as of today! it’s so difficult, upsetting and stressful. But I can’t rehome it would just break my heart.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Bethanjane22 said:


> I have to agree with @chillminx about setting yourself a timeframe to try and get the girls back together.
> 
> We did that, and thankfully we were able to get them back together full time now. Although I do think them being so young has helped matters. As your girls are older they are probably less forgiving.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much.

I can't cope with even imagining re homing any of them. I really can't as my daughter adores them both so much. They adore her too.

I get really upset when people say that after so long fast forgjve and they can't live together (not you, other things I've read). It makes me scared we won't ever work this out and that's causing me huge anxiety.

I'm so glad things have worked out for you and your girls. I know how awful it is.


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Melliej said:


> Sorry to read what's been happening with your cats! I really can relate to everything you have said! I am going through the same and it's been ongoing for quite some time. I have three indoor sister cats, happily living with each other for 5 years until about a year ago. Currently all are separated again as of today! it's so difficult, upsetting and stressful. But I can't rehome it would just break my heart.


Oh I'm so sorry. 
It is so upsetting isn't it, it's been so hard on us separating them as they both adore my daughter and used to sleep together on her bed all day. Now they have to take it in turns and they cry to come out of the living room when we take it in turns for one to walk around the house and see our daughter for a few hours. It's so hard and it's really upset me. It's been 2 months of it. Very stressful.

How are things going now? Did keep in touch. I hope things are improving x


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Thank you. 
Yes that’s a good idea, we will give it 4 months from now and work on things. They’re still eating well together and having short play time on the weekend in the living room and no fights so far. We just have to find the time to build on it I guess. What a time for this to happen in a pandemic, house is full all the time which is hard on the cats and my husband is working from home so it’s all been very stressful and time consuming but it is what it is.

Yes the carrier is something to consider, thanks for that I’ll look into that.


----------



## Melliej (Jun 8, 2019)

MaisieD said:


> Thank you.
> Yes that's a good idea, we will give it 4 months from now and work on things. They're still eating well together and having short play time on the weekend in the living room and no fights so far. We just have to find the time to build on it I guess. What a time for this to happen in a pandemic, house is full all the time which is hard on the cats and my husband is working from home so it's all been very stressful and time consuming but it is what it is.
> 
> Yes the carrier is something to consider, thanks for that I'll look into that.





MaisieD said:


> Oh I'm so sorry.
> It is so upsetting isn't it, it's been so hard on us separating them as they both adore my daughter and used to sleep together on her bed all day. Now they have to take it in turns and they cry to come out of the living room when we take it in turns for one to walk around the house and see our daughter for a few hours. It's so hard and it's really upset me. It's been 2 months of it. Very stressful.
> 
> How are things going now? Did keep in touch. I hope things are improving x[


----------



## Melliej (Jun 8, 2019)

Hey

Currently two Ted and Tiger are together and are ok but every now and again the have a little moment but they are tolerating each other and the last two days have slept together on a couple of occasions. I wouldn’t say they were best friends because they constantly look for each other and are still easily jumpy at noises or sudden movements. Bear is currently still separated from ted and tiger but I switch rooms on a regular basis so they can smell that each other have been there. Bear hisses and seems to be the more aggressive one but the smallest cat. Tiger is the independent one and doesn’t like much fuss but when the have a fight she wears herself and hides, which is so upsetting. Ted the biggest lump makes bizarre noises in tense situations and sometimes makes noise


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Melliej said:


> Hey
> 
> Currently two Ted and Tiger are together and are ok but every now and again the have a little moment but they are tolerating each other and the last two days have slept together on a couple of occasions. I wouldn't say they were best friends because they constantly look for each other and are still easily jumpy at noises or sudden movements. Bear is currently still separated from ted and tiger but I switch rooms on a regular basis so they can smell that each other have been there. Bear hisses and seems to be the more aggressive one but the smallest cat. Tiger is the independent one and doesn't like much fuss but when the have a fight she wears herself and hides, which is so upsetting. Ted the biggest lump makes bizarre noises in tense situations and sometimes makes noise


I can relate. Our girls were stressed for weeks after the big fight. So jumpy at loud noises and ears back at any noise. At times they still are, especially Matilda.

I'm glad they've been able to be around eachother a little so soon, that's a good sign. Our girls the first few weeks afterwards growled and tried to fight again if we let them near eachother, it was horrible.


----------



## Melliej (Jun 8, 2019)

Melliej said:


> Hey
> 
> Currently two Ted and Tiger are together and are ok but every now and again the have a little moment but they are tolerating each other and the last two days have slept together on a couple of occasions. I wouldn't say they were best friends because they constantly look for each other and are still easily jumpy at noises or sudden movements. Bear is currently still separated from ted and tiger but I switch rooms on a regular basis so they can smell that each other have been there. Bear hisses and seems to be the more aggressive one but the smallest cat. Tiger is the independent one and doesn't like much fuss but when the have a fight she wears herself and hides, which is so upsetting. Ted the biggest lump makes bizarre noises in tense situations and sometimes makes noises for no reason and just for effect. They are all on zyklene again and just ordered more feliway friends not that I think that helps. I also have calming jackets which tbh I have had a while but being back at work it's been difficult to spend time with them to get them used to them. It takes patience as I have been here before I'm not sure things will ever go back to normal but I think I can get them back together but baby steps. This has caused issues with the family as it's a big ask to keep them separated and very frustrating and causes me more anxieties than I care to mention


----------



## Melliej (Jun 8, 2019)

MaisieD said:


> I can relate. Our girls were stressed for weeks after the big fight. So jumpy at loud noises and ears back at any noise. At times they still are, especially Matilda.
> 
> I'm glad they've been able to be around eachother a little so soon, that's a good sign. Our girls the first few weeks afterwards growled and tried to fight again if we let them near eachother, it was horrible.


Sorry my reply got cut off halfway through!


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

@MaisieD How are your lovely girls getting along now?


----------



## Melliej (Jun 8, 2019)

Bethanjane22 said:


> @MaisieD How are your lovely girls getting along now?


Hi and thanks for asking...well Ted and Tiger are good I wouldn't say they are best friends but in general they are getting on, they do have a moment when tiger sits on ted or ted gives tiger a cheeky nip but ted is a drama queen and makes stupid noises when tiger gets a bit in her face but if I hear that I just distract them and they soon go there separate ways. Bear the smallest and feisty one is still separated, they have breakfast all together but then I separate and I swap bear and let her upstairs for the day and the other two stay downstairs as they stay upstairs during the night. I work full time so it is difficult at the moment to re introduce as I need to spend time and have the patience to do. I am off work for just over two weeks soon and my aim is to introduce them more. Sometimes I carry bear into the room where the other two are just so they all know they are in the house together and by changing them around in different room they can smell each other. They are in zyklene and I have the calming vests which I will use when I'm off with them but obviously it's so warm at the moment I'm hoping they won't overheat!!

How are things with yours? I really hope you have had some positive news or at least on the way to some sort of normal x


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Hello,
Sorry I’ve not been on the group for awhile, life has just got so busy since my daughter went back to school and I wasn’t seeing much progress. We still had one cat in the living room, and one around the upstairs. We swapped once a day, we couldn’t mix them and I was feeling deflated.

I have the most amazing update. We continued to just mix them at mealtimes because every time we try to mix them together at any other time they would fight and I chase each other upstairs growling. We started recently every weekend sitting in the living room and doing a couple of hours with them while we watched the film. It went okay but both cats were still quite jumpy with each other and near misses with fights. But we persevered and kept them sitting on the sofas opposite ends of the room that so that they saw each other.

Last weekend I was upset and said to my husband that I was worried that we wouldn’t have our living room back for Christmas so we couldn’t decorate. I was deeply concerned that the cats would never mix again and we were weighing up our options. Then this weekend we watched a film with them again and they just mixed beautifully so we open the living room door and let me just walk around the house together for the first time in 4 months. I think it’s been that long, I can’t remember when j first posted I’ll have to look back.

They’ve been brilliant together ever since we’ve not needed to separate them in 2 days. I’m getting emotional as I type this because it’s been a really stressful year and the cats situation made things 10 times harder.

They are still a little bit wary but no fights. They will give each other a wash and walk around together. They haven’t yet cuddled up together but this morning for the first time they sat in their favourite place which always was my daughters bed. Not cuddled up with each other but in the same place. This is huge because that is where the fight started originally months ago. I can’t tell you how amazing this feels and we are all feeling far less stressed. It really was an awful fight that our girls had on those two occasions, and we tried and tried to keep mixing them but another fight would break out. Things have been awful with them after living together fine for 9 years. I’m so glad we persevered with just slow steps, letting them just see each other once a day, then twice a day and then a couple of hours in the living room twice a week.

Let’s hope this continues and we don’t have a relapse. We didn’t put them in separate rooms for bed last night and they slept in my daughters bedroom together, one on the floor, one on the bed. Thank you all so much for your support, it’s really helped so much.

Let’s hope Angelica and Matilda can now be the best of friends again Here is a photo of them currently on my daughters bed.

Wow, almost 5 months it’s taken to get to this point.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Awww, thank you for the heart-warming update @MaisieD. I am so glad things are better between Angelica and Matilda. Excellent news! 

Long may peace reign between the girls! :Singing:Singing And you can look forward to being one big happy family at Christmas.


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

MaisieD said:


> Hello,
> Sorry I've not been on the group for awhile, life has just got so busy since my daughter went back to school and I wasn't seeing much progress. We still had one cat in the living room, and one around the upstairs. We swapped once a day, we couldn't mix them and I was feeling deflated.
> 
> I have the most amazing update. We continued to just mix them at mealtimes because every time we try to mix them together at any other time they would fight and I chase each other upstairs growling. We started recently every weekend sitting in the living room and doing a couple of hours with them while we watched the film. It went okay but both cats were still quite jumpy with each other and near misses with fights. But we persevered and kept them sitting on the sofas opposite ends of the room that so that they saw each other.
> ...


Im so happy things have gone back to some sort of normality with your girls! It's really great to see them sleeping close together :Cat

My girls don't cuddle together, except on the odd occasion where they happen to sleep on the same human bed, even then it's not quite cuddling, more lying close together.

Im crossing everything that things stay nice and calm for you all, and that Christmas can be enjoyed as a family together xx


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

chillminx said:


> Awww, thank you for the heart-warming update @MaisieD. I am so glad things are better between Angelica and Matilda. Excellent news!
> 
> Long may peace reign between the girls! :Singing:Singing And you can look forward to being one big happy family at Christmas.


Thank you so much. I will keep you all updated.

I'm thinking of getting a plug in again for upstairs to see if that keeps them at peace. Felliway friends maybe. I used felliway and pet remedy the last few months but as we weren't mixing them much I'm not sure which helped lol. They have their calming collars on, we changed them yesterday so that's good and they have calming treats a few times a day.

Thank you for everything x


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Bethanjane22 said:


> Im so happy things have gone back to some sort of normality with your girls! It's really great to see them sleeping close together :Cat
> 
> My girls don't cuddle together, except on the odd occasion where they happen to sleep on the same human bed, even then it's not quite cuddling, more lying close together.
> 
> Im crossing everything that things stay nice and calm for you all, and that Christmas can be enjoyed as a family together xx


Thank you Bethan.

It's a huge relief isn't it when things start to get back to normal. I feel so relieved.

How are things with your girls now? X


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Melliej said:


> Hi and thanks for asking...well Ted and Tiger are good I wouldn't say they are best friends but in general they are getting on, they do have a moment when tiger sits on ted or ted gives tiger a cheeky nip but ted is a drama queen and makes stupid noises when tiger gets a bit in her face but if I hear that I just distract them and they soon go there separate ways. Bear the smallest and feisty one is still separated, they have breakfast all together but then I separate and I swap bear and let her upstairs for the day and the other two stay downstairs as they stay upstairs during the night. I work full time so it is difficult at the moment to re introduce as I need to spend time and have the patience to do. I am off work for just over two weeks soon and my aim is to introduce them more. Sometimes I carry bear into the room where the other two are just so they all know they are in the house together and by changing them around in different room they can smell each other. They are in zyklene and I have the calming vests which I will use when I'm off with them but obviously it's so warm at the moment I'm hoping they won't overheat!!
> 
> How are things with yours? I really hope you have had some positive news or at least on the way to some sort of normal x


How are they doing now? X


----------



## Bethanjane22 (Apr 13, 2019)

MaisieD said:


> Thank you Bethan.
> 
> It's a huge relief isn't it when things start to get back to normal. I feel so relieved.
> 
> How are things with your girls now? X


For the most part, they are fine. They still have their moments where they will swipe at each other and chase around the house, but it never turns aggressive like it was before.

I'm struggling with playtime still as it makes me so nervous to play with them together, 'just in case'!

Luna, is still very skitty and jumpy, so that doesn't helps because when she gets spooked and her sister is nearby, she looks at her as if she is the devil, even thought Nova wasn't the cause!

They certainly keep me on my toes!


----------



## MaisieD (May 22, 2019)

Bethanjane22 said:


> For the most part, they are fine. They still have their moments where they will swipe at each other and chase around the house, but it never turns aggressive like it was before.
> 
> I'm struggling with playtime still as it makes me so nervous to play with them together, 'just in case'!
> 
> ...


I understand that feeling, I'm nervous walking across the landing. They were both lying on there before and as I walked past I wasn't scared a fight would break out and I'd be caught in it, as the landing was their trigger spot along with our daughters bedroom.

Im glad your girls are doing well, they've come a long way. I hope it continues to improve. X


----------

