# Questions: grooming, bonding, mounting, and thumping



## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

I have various questions for experienced rabbit owners.

I got my second rabbit Holly 4 days ago and she's completely different to my first rabbit Charlie. I almost feel like I'm dealing with a different animal with her!

I'm in the middle of a bonding process and I'm not sure if some of my issues are due to the process or not. I think the process is going well because I caught them laying together and they eat using the same bowl.

My questions:

How do I get her to groom herself more? She used to be an outside rabbit and I think she's used to being in her own business. She's not litter trained so she tends to pee, soak it up with her own fur, and then mount Charlie and get him dirty too. I tried putting a tiny bit of yoghurt on her to get her (or him) to lick her clean but she just shook her body like a dog and continued sitting there. I've taken to getting a damp cloth and cleaning her paws once a day to prevent her from getting too stinky.
She thumps a lot, should I be worried? Her thumps are loud enough to mistake for someone walking upstairs. 
How do I soften the sound of her thumping?
She's constantly mounting Charlie (already neutered). He started it off at the beginning but stopped within a day. Holly on the other hand seems to be only interested in the one thing. It's really starting to makw Charlie angry because she's ripping out his hair so he winds up biting her to get her off. How long is this going to last?
She's a lot bigger than Charlie (which is fine because he's tiny anyway) but I think she's overweight. How do I determine this at home?
If she is overweight what are some tips to get her healthy? 
Holly eats a lot of hay which has made me realise how little Charlie eats. I've tried different brands and I even bought the dandelion mixture type but he doesn't care for it. I shredded carrot and mixed it in before getting Holly and he just dug out the carrots and put the hay to the side. How do I get him to eat more?

I'm trying to avoid vet trips for now until I take her to the vets to be spayed later this month when I'm paid. I would have kept them separately until then but I don't have the extra space for it.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Seriously you shouldn't have them together until she is spayed. She is feeling very hormonal as you've out her in with a male. His behaviour is driving her nuts. She is so frustrated it is resulting in her thumping and mounting and pulling fur. It's only a matter of time before a proper fight breaks out and you have 1-a huge vet bill and 2-two mean bits who are really starting to dislike each other. She needs splitting from him, spaying then a couple of months to allow things to settle before trying bonding again in a completely NEUTRAL area. There's a good bonding sticky with great advice on here.


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

That's all fair enough but I did mention that I don't have the space for it. Neither do I have an extra cage to keep her in or the money to buy one right now. They get along fairly well so I'm sure that they won't fight. Charlie isn't a fighter anyway and Holly runs away or gives in when Charlie is angry at her. She spent 2 years with a male with her previous owners but she was very well behaved. If I see them get too aggressive I will separate her and look into finding space and purchasing another cage.

You only sort of answered 2 of my questions. The first one relating to hygiene is my main concern at the moment but I'd like the others answered too.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

How do I get her to groom herself more? She used to be an outside rabbit and I think she's used to being in her own business. She's not litter trained so she tends to pee, soak it up with her own fur, and then mount Charlie and get him dirty too. I tried putting a tiny bit of yoghurt on her to get her (or him) to lick her clean but she just shook her body like a dog and continued sitting there. I've taken to getting a damp cloth and cleaning her paws once a day to prevent her from getting too stinky. ....... _Spaying will help. How are you training her? She's hormonal and wanting to mate. It's normal for her to pee everywhere. Forget the yoghurt, they shouldn't have dairy. You also shouldn't need to wash her paws, rabbits are by nature very clean. Maybe try restricting their space and put towels down you can wash but they absorb the urine. But I strongly believe you will struggle to litter train her whilst she is a raging bundle of sex mad hormones._

She thumps a lot, should I be worried? Her thumps are loud enough to mistake for someone walking upstairs......_she's hormonal and cross. Thumping is normal in this situation. Everything is new to her at the moment also. She's only been there for four days and they are still finding the dynamics of the bond. It should settle down. _

How do I soften the sound of her thumping?..... _it should stop when she settles down_

She's constantly mounting Charlie (already neutered). He started it off at the beginning but stopped within a day. Holly on the other hand seems to be only interested in the one thing. It's really starting to makw Charlie angry because she's ripping out his hair so he winds up biting her to get her off. How long is this going to last?....._until they have a massive fight or hormones have settled._ 
She's a lot bigger than Charlie (which is fine because he's tiny anyway) but I think she's overweight. How do I determine this at home?..._.have you a photo? Has she a massive dewlap? Can she clean herself properly? _
If she is overweight what are some tips to get her healthy?..._.feed separately. Use less pellets more hay. Plenty of exercise. 
_
Holly eats a lot of hay which has made me realise how little Charlie eats. I've tried different brands and I even bought the dandelion mixture type but he doesn't care for it. I shredded carrot and mixed it in before getting Holly and he just dug out the carrots and put the hay to the side. How do I get him to eat more?...._try sprinkling dried herbs like basil or parsley in it, or a small amount of readigrass. _

_I did read that you had no space to split them, but to me that is short sighted. Bonds can always break so you should always be able to house them separately should the need arise. Why did her previous owner rehome her? Did they split her previous bond or did he die? Either we she's had a heck of a lot of change in the past few days._


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Hello and welcome to the forum!

This is going to be a long one.

There are some brilliant stickies on here, that are well worth reading.  And some very experienced owners too.



farhana said:


> I have various questions for experienced rabbit owners.
> 
> I got my second rabbit Holly 4 days ago and she's completely different to my first rabbit Charlie. I almost feel like I'm dealing with a different animal with her!
> 
> ...


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

They're getting along better now and I haven't seen her mount him since the day I posted this thread. They snuggle, lay together, and use the same bowl so I think they're doing well. They're definitely friends right now 

I've got them in a pet shop size cage for now because it hasn't been a week yet and I read you should keep them in a small space and too much space too quick often causes problems. I'm considering buying an 8 sided puppy pen soon for them to have more space for stretching and standing. Would that be large enough for them? They live in a spare room so eventually they'd be free to run around in the room and play. They go out in the run for the majority of the day though so they have space to move around. I also give them time out of the run to explore my garden freely for just less than an hour with supervision.

I'm 90% sure she's overweight because she can't reach her back to clean it. She runs for 2 seconds in the garden and then takes a break to nap. Lol I don't think she's used to having this much space because she was ecstatic the first time she got to run freely. I have yet to see her jump high or binky though. I didn't try the yoghurt more than once so I won't be trying it again. 

She doesn't thump when I'm around. She does it when left alone with Charlie but I think it's just to get him to move out of her space. 

She came from a family in Kent that gave her up a month after their second bunny died. I think she was lonely and from what I saw they kept her in either her hutch or her run all day and night. I'm sure she spent a lot of time just sitting in her own pee in her hutch because that's what she was doing when I brought her home (with the hutch) she's using the litter box now and I think her hygiene has improved a lot from my constant cleaning!

Charlie was neutered last summer  they get about 3 tablespoons of pellets in the morning and 3 in the evening. I feed them Burgess Excel pellets. I've tried decreasing Charlie's pellets to get him on more hay when he was a solo bun but he was just grumpy and hungry for a week. What are some good brands for picky rabbits?

Pictures because I'm a proud mama!

One is Holly on day 2 in her hutch which was retired on day 3. The other picture is of the two of them after they decided to sit on top of the little rabbit house in the run. They both look so chubby and cute from hunching to fit in the space! <3


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Glad things are going well.

The exercise should tone her up and help her slim down. It's never wise to diet a rabbit rapidly anyway, so steady is better.

And yes, if she can't reach to clean herself, unless she is arthritic or has an injury, she is likely to be overweight.

You are right to keep them in a small space to begin with. Then it is a case of gradually extending that space in whatever way is bunny proof and works for you.

It will be lovely when they have their bunny room.

Burgess Excel isn't the best food unfortunately. Science Selective or Allen and Page are higher in crude fibre. Burgess has a higher sugar content, and can upset some rabbits' tummies. just something to be aware of. Any changeover would need to be made gradually though.


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## farhana (Mar 15, 2014)

I gave them a tiny bit more space today in the corner of the room with access to their cage and they're being a bit aggressive again. Should I expect this as they get more space?

Thanks for the advice about excel. I did think it was strange that Charlie was always so excited to eat. I guess it was the sugar all along! I'll look into one of the brands you suggested once the food runs low. I've also got mixed seed food that I was given with Holly that needs to be finished too. I'm giving 1 spoon of that and 2 of excel so I've got a lot of food around right now!


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