# Ragwort - how serious?



## Acrophylla (Apr 16, 2008)

I've been told that ragwort kills horses and to pull it out of the field. But I'm just curious as to how much ragwort a horse needs to eat for it to be fatal?


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## minnie (Feb 14, 2008)

humm i had a horse that ate a whole plant and still was not affected but another i knew only had a mouthfull and was seriously ill


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## Guest (May 10, 2008)

I think it is harmful over a period of time,it builds up in the system damaging the liver.It is harmful both fresh and dried.I think Its also illegal to allow lots of plants to grow.


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## bullbreeds (Jan 14, 2008)

Its lethal when the seeds get to a certain stage.
But its that deadly it is now illegal to allow a horse to graze in a field which contains ragwort so pull it up! 
If you rent the field the responsibilty lies with the owner who can be prosecuted.
Best people to give you all the info on it is the ILPH.


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

The problem with ragwort is it is a tough sod of a weed. It is more poisonous dried than it is fresh and the seeds can stay dormant in the ground for 20 years before they grow!

You want to get it before it starts flowering, and a ragfork is the best at getting it up. Also it is a myth that sheep are immune to it. It is not worth taking the risk as it is a horrible way for an animal to go as its liver shuts down.


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## Acrophylla (Apr 16, 2008)

Thanks to everyone who's responded with advice. As suggested, I looked on the ILPH page and found more good advice, here is the link. ILPH: Advice on handling Ragwort - Poisonous Plant to horses, Ragwort Plants


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## marchog (May 23, 2008)

Ragwort poisoning is actually quite rare. You only really need worry about hay. Animals naturally avoid toxic plants. It takes far far more than a mouthful to poison a horse. The problem is that some people have wanted to talk up the problem for their own profit.
Did you know that the toxins in ragwort occur in lots of other plants? 3% of the world's plants contain them.

Several myths have been repeated in this thread. not only does it take far far more than a mouthful to do damage it most certainly isn't illegal to have it growing on your land.

See the following sites
Ragwort - Is it as bad as you think?

It gives scientific references for every point and gives a useful list of myths.

and

Ragwort, Myths and Facts

The latter site is written by a Dutch horse owner. ( This is the English language version)
She was a member of a group that wanted to eradicate ragwort because they believed it was seriously dangerous, but she asked some scientists for help and they explained that most of the stories going around were false. She was so upset by the untruths that were being told that she wrote the site to correct all the false stories.


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Actually the law in the UK now is to control the amount of ragwort on your land, however it is not enforced very well by the councils. I have seen a cow die of ragwort poisoning and a horse suffering the effects. I personally don't see the point in taking the risk, my horses lives are more important to me than anything else.


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## marchog (May 23, 2008)

Lynsey said:


> Actually the law in the UK now is to control the amount of ragwort on your land, however it is not enforced very well by the councils. I have seen a cow die of ragwort poisoning and a horse suffering the effects. I personally don't see the point in taking the risk, my horses lives are more important to me than anything else.


It is most emphatically definitely and certainly NOT the case that the law obliges people to control ragwort on their land. Please follow the links and READ the material I provided 
Ragwort - Is it as bad as you think? 
and specifically

Ragwort and the Law The Weeds Act 1959

Ragwort poisoning is phenomenally rare. A French study involved deliberately poisoning animals (an awfully cruel thing to do) because they couldn't find any examples in the scientific literature a later study showed only 6 cases in around 10 years. They actually suspected that there was something different about the ragwort in France. There isn't.

Of course nobody wants their animals to be harmed but statistically horses are more likely to be stolen for the meat trade, a dreadful thought, than poisoned by ragwort.

All this fuss about ragwort poisoning may be leading to more horse deaths from commoner causes that are being ignored. It is really really rare.


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## Guest (May 26, 2008)

The only bit on here which states you are not obliged to remove ragwort on your land is dated 1959!! the amended section does not make it clear about the issue.


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## marchog (May 23, 2008)

clare7577 said:


> The only bit on here which states you are not obliged to remove ragwort on your land is dated 1959!! the amended section does not make it clear about the issue.


I suspect you are not used to reading laws. The age of the law makes no difference.
The only amendment is to give the minister the power to create GUIDANCE.
There is no legal obligation on landowners to control ragwort.

You are clearly wrong on this. Just stop and think for a moment. If you are wrong on this you were told something wrong by someone. Just like all the other false publicity. Read that website again and read the myths section.( i'll bet a lot of money that you only read two pages of the site) I'll bet you thought a lot of the myths were true. All of them have scientific references provided and there is a second site that says the same things.

Ragwort - Common myths

People are being misled by propaganda.


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

Well why have people been successfully cautioned and forced to remove the ragwort on their land!


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## Guest (May 26, 2008)

I think id still rather be cautious about this issue as i dont think its worth any potential risk.I have heard of horses that have died as a result of ragwort poisoning,this must have been concluded by a vet.Im more likely to go along/believe in facts which ive seen,or heard of by reputable persons than take much notice in some piece of government legistation.This being a government that has always been a load of thieving idiots in my opinion.And as far as scientists go they probably havent been within spitting distance of a horse anyway.And as we all know they make mistakes...


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## silly gilly (Apr 7, 2008)

Very serious, it has a cumalitive effect, you must wear gloves when you pull it then make sure you take the pulled ones out and burn them as they are more likely to eat it when its dead, the councils in Wales do next to nothing to eradicate it.


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## marchog (May 23, 2008)

silly gilly said:


> Very serious, it has a cumalitive effect, you must wear gloves when you pull it then make sure you take the pulled ones out and burn them as they are more likely to eat it when its dead, the councils in Wales do next to nothing to eradicate it.


Yes it can have a cumulative effect BUT small doses are unlikely to have any effect at at all.
It takes up to 20% of body weight to kill a horse and it has to be in hay which is why all the real experts say that it is rare.

The wearing of gloves is only necessary because some people are allergic to the daisy family. There is a story that has be put around to raise funds, it seems, that the toxins that affect animals can be absorbed through the skin. Very little is absorbed through the skin and it is in the WRONG FORM to do any harm. We know this because doctors have studied it.

The official guidance to councils is NOT to eradicate it. Another myth is that it spreads easily from roads etc. IT DOES NOT. Again we know this because plant experts have studied it. The details are on the sites that I provided.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2008)

Under the injurous weeds act 1979 people with ragwort on their land are obliged to remove it if asked, if their land is within a certain distance (can't remember what) of a field for grazing horses. If they don't remove the ragwort, they can be reported. If it still isn't removed within the time limit they have been given by DEFRA, they can be prosecuted. 

Ragwort is poisonous to horses. It is true that most will leave it alone, but it doesn't taste as bad when it is dead/dried eg. in hay so the horse may be tempted to eat it. Horses may also eat ragwort if there is no grass, or much of anything else to eat, in the field. 

Ragwort has a cumulative effect on the liver, meaning you won't know how much your horse has eaten until the horse shows signs of liver disease by which time it's often too late to do anything. Maybe it's not as bad as some people say, but it's not worth the risk of leaving ragwort in your horses field.

The horse that someone mentioned ate one mouthful of ragwort and became ill had probably already eaten some on another occasion, causing liver damage, and that one mouthful was one too many.


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

it should be pulled out and burnt


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## Lynsey (Apr 13, 2008)

It seems ragwort poisoning is not as rare as it seems, 2 horses near me have just been diagnosed with liver failure and the most suspicious cause is ragwort in their hay! The stuff should all be pulled and burnt!


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## welshie (Apr 28, 2009)

Whenever I see any ragwort on my paddocks I get it out to prevent it seeding and spreading


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## harryf200 (Sep 21, 2012)

Acrophylla said:


> I've been told that ragwort kills horses and to pull it out of the field. But I'm just curious as to how much ragwort a horse needs to eat for it to be fatal?


See Ragwort - Is it as bad as you think? where it quotes scientific research that states a horse would have to ingest between 5 % and 25% of their body weight before it is harmful.


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## harryf200 (Sep 21, 2012)

silly gilly said:


> Very serious, it has a cumalitive effect, you must wear gloves when you pull it then make sure you take the pulled ones out and burn them as they are more likely to eat it when its dead, the councils in Wales do next to nothing to eradicate it.


No, the poisonous compound in Ragwort does not accumulate in the body - it is secreted soon after being eaten. However, if enough of it is consumed (it must be eaten for it to be poisonous) the damage done to the liver is cumulative.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

bullbreeds said:


> Its lethal when the seeds get to a certain stage.
> But its that deadly it is now illegal to allow a horse to graze in a field which contains ragwort so pull it up!
> If you rent the field the responsibilty lies with the owner who can be prosecuted.
> Best people to give you all the info on it is the ILPH.


According to our landlord, the responsibility is with the occupier of the field, certainly it is your horses which will suffer. British Horse Society will have the legal details as I believe they managed to get an Act passed a few years back concerning the control of ragwort. Unfortunately, even if you pull every piece in your paddock, if the people in the next field do not, you will get it again as their seeds will head your way. There is a treatment which never struck me as much use, of course the horses had to be moved to another place for about a month. Yes, it is poisonous, but none of ours would touch it, apparently it is more palatable (supposedly) when it is dead and dry. Apparently it is not native to this country, someone imported it as they thought it was pretty. Help.


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## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

A horse on my yard is suffering with severe liver damage due to ragwort poisoning. The poor mare has been so so ill and is lucky to still be alive. I don't understand why so many people risk turning out in fields with ragwort. Horrible stuff, I wish it could be eradicated.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

bullbreeds said:


> Its lethal when the seeds get to a certain stage.
> But its that deadly it is now illegal to allow a horse to graze in a field which contains ragwort so pull it up!
> If you rent the field the responsibilty lies with the owner who can be prosecuted.
> Best people to give you all the info on it is the ILPH.


Of course it is not illegal to allow a horse to graze a field with ragwort. It is mandatory to control ragwort whether horses are grazing it or not. Other livestock can die just as easily.

It is not very palatable but once it dies off, or if it is in hay, it will get eaten because it becomes more palatable.
It has a cumulative effect on the liver and once a certain percentage of the liver is damaged the horse will get ill and die.
Therefore you could buy a healthy horse and it could take one mouthful which tips it over the balance.
There is a blood test available to check if there is any damage.

It is illegal to sell hay with ragwort in it.

Most horse owners take it seriously because most have seen or heard of horses dying of it. Picking it by hand is the most efficient way but in bigger fields spraying with chemicals is the only way.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Acrophylla said:


> I've been told that ragwort kills horses and to pull it out of the field. But I'm just curious as to how much ragwort a horse needs to eat for it to be fatal?


The thing about ragwort is that it _accumulates_ in the system and causes liver (?) damage. Generally speaking, a horse would have to be very hungry to eat it as it has a bitter taste until it is dry. Pulling it, as you are doing, is the best way of controlling it. It keeps on coming back htough so you have to keep on top of it. The ragwort forks (three small prongs) are good.


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## marchog (May 23, 2008)

Calvine said:


> The thing about ragwort is that it _accumulates_ in the system and causes liver (?) damage.


Ragwort DOES NOT accumulate in the system. The damage can but only if sufficient is eaten to cause damage in the first place.


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## marchog (May 23, 2008)

Blitz said:


> Of course it is not illegal to allow a horse to graze a field with ragwort. It is mandatory to control ragwort whether horses are grazing it or not.


It is NOT mandatory to control ragwort.
It is perhaps understandable why people think this. It is a common myth.
A British Horse Society leaflet was banned by the Advertising Standards Agency(ASA) last year for saying this. The ASA looked at the truth about the law and decided the leaflet was misleading people.
There is a lot of misinformation around about ragwort.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

marchog said:


> It is NOT mandatory to control ragwort.
> It is perhaps understandable why people think this. It is a common myth.
> A British Horse Society leaflet was banned by the Advertising Standards Agency(ASA) last year for saying this. The ASA looked at the truth about the law and decided the leaflet was misleading people.
> There is a lot of misinformation around about ragwort.


Well, as a farmer I think I have a good chance of being right.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

marchog said:


> Ragwort DOES NOT accumulate in the system. The damage can but only if sufficient is eaten to cause damage in the first place.


I am sure no one meant that the ragwort itself accumulates in the system but the damage it causes to the liver is accumulative and once a certain amount of the liver is damaged that is that .

Therefore , as I said before, an apparently healthy horse might only need to take a mouthful to cause that extra damage.


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