# Premates and Predicting Ovulation



## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

As requested.....

By far the most accurate way of predicting ovulation in a bitch. Progesterone levels begin to rise after pro-oestrus and increase through heat. They reach specific levels through ovulation, which means that this is a quantitive way of predicting ovulation, therefore a more accurate way. This test is done in a laboratory (the most popular being Idexx) or in house (no where near as accurate), but firstly, a blood sample must be take from the dog at the vets. The vets should then forward this onto the laboratory that same day. With Idexx, the results are given back to you the following day. Idexx also recommend when it is you go to mate the dog or if another test is needed (usually 2-3 days later if the progesterone level was too low for an accurate prediction of ovulation). The units they deliver the results in are normally ng/ml (nanogram per millilitre of blood) nmol/L (nanomol per litre). Ovulation occurs at approximately 5ng/ml or 15-20nmol/L.

It is recommended with the average bitch to do the first test at around day 9. For bitches that have been previously difficult to get in whelp or "missed", it maybe worth while starting early in the season, possibly even day 4.

*Interpretting the results:
This is the potocol I use to interpret blood progesterones its in nmol/l

To convert to Progesterones in ng/ml MULTIPLY BY 3.18 = progesterone in nmol/l

To convert nmmol/l DIVIDE BY 3.18 = progesterone in ng/ml

0-2 nmol/L Baseline concentrations too early to estimate ovulation

3 - 6 nmol /L Minimum 2 days before ovulation expected however result of 3 - 4 nmol/L may persist for a week or longer before increasing. Earliiest estimating breeding 4 - 6 days but could be longer (re test needed)

7 - 12 nmol/L Minimum 1 day before ovulation. Estimated window for breeding 3 - 5 days but could be longer ( re test recommended)

13 - 18 nmol/L Ovulation impending or just occurred. Estimated breeding window 2 - 4 days

19 - 31 nmol/L Ovulation recently occurred. Estimated breeding window 1 - 3 days

32 - 64 nmol/L Ova have matured, optimal potential for fertility. Estimated breeding window 0 - 2 days

65 - 90 nmol/L Ova have matured but aging, decreased potential for fertility. Breed at once

Above 90 nmol/L Too late*

Inhouse testing is nowhere near as accurate, and very much relies on the eye of the interpretor. It is based on colour change. There is great room for error in the interpretting of the the results..... basically its a case of "Not ovulated" and "Ovulated" with very little grey area in between. The problem with this is that unless a huge series of these are done from relatively early on, if you miss when it changed from "not ovulated" to "ovulated" you are pretty much in the dark as to when ovulation occured, so you aren't aware of whether she will be in the fertile period or not.


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

Blimey in the days when I bred it was mate them and see
Technology eh


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## astro (Jan 20, 2009)

For those breeders that have their own stud and test for the bitch's progesterone level increase/decrease, has the stud become interested at the 'right time', coinciding with your positive test result?

(or do most breeders not have their own stud  Sorry, my naivete showing here...)


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## reddogs (Feb 6, 2009)

I just had a premate on my bitch, expecting to be told a couple of days - nah it was NOW :lol:

and it jolly was


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2011)

Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you...

I am so greatful Tanya...will give this a read shortly.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Kinjilabs said:


> Blimey in the days when I bred it was mate them and see
> Technology eh


yeah me too lol .........and was always 12 and 14 th day and i never had one miss ever, now my last two bitches that whelped were premate tested and where mated on 16th-19th day.

off to get Summa idexx tested later


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Are these tests foolproof though? Quite a few people have told me that their stud dog wouldn't mate a bitch even though the test said she was ready, then mated her later in the season and had a litter


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Idexx are pretty much fool proof with regards to numbers, but occasionally a bitch can ovulate twice during a season, especially if "missed" the first time. There is also the chance that bloods are mixed up when at the lab... after all people are falliable.

The "in house" very much depend on human interpretation- reading colours off a wall chart and comparing to a sample, so there is much more room for error.

Put it this way- if it was about gambling "Days" or "Idexx" I'd always bet on Idexx being correct.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

Fit and fertile are running premates. Wonder if anyone has used them for it yet?


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

luvmydogs said:


> Are these tests foolproof though? Quite a few people have told me that their stud dog wouldn't mate a bitch even though the test said she was ready, then mated her later in the season and had a litter


my bitch has been premated and now stud dog owner wants her idexx today!

any other breeds have stud dog owners insisting on bitch put on synulox to cover mating dates?


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

dexter said:


> my bitch has been premated and now stud dog owner wants her idexx today!
> 
> any other breeds have stud dog owners insisting on bitch put on synulox to cover mating dates?


Generally not here, but I can understand if the stud is quite a popular one. It wouldn't bother me too much.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Tanya1989 said:


> Generally not here, but I can understand if the stud is quite a popular one. It wouldn't bother me too much.


most seem to insist now in our breed even for lesser used studs. Problem is most vets not happy about issuing synulox for this reason i had to sign a disclaimer before my vet would issue them.


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

I used Idexx to pinpoint my bitch'es ovulation period - her season must have been a record breaker at 38 days long with her fertile days being day 28 and 30 - i must admit to being a bit dubious - but her scan today showed 9 pups - so obviously the test was spot on !

Mind you I ended up having something like 7 tests done and at £30 a go the cost soon mounts up !


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

luvmydogs said:


> Are these tests foolproof though? Quite a few people have told me that their stud dog wouldn't mate a bitch even though the test said she was ready, then mated her later in the season and had a litter


I have to say, I have put my faith implicitly in the hands of my vets when it comes to pre-mate testing - they take the blood and run the tests on the premises.

The first time they were spot on (which was a good job given the geographic location of the stud)

The second time it set retest in 48 hours - bang smack in the middle of the August Bank Holiday  - thankfully I bargained on knowing my bitch pretty well by that time - and we took her (day 8/10) and were spot on.

The last time, I was testing - and we were literally on the last test in the box when it said "mate now" - you could knocked me down with a feather - I would never have said she was ready for mating - but she was - and we had a lovely litter of 7 (sadly lost one at a week).


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

just got results back from vets he said go NOW. ffs a 5 hour trip , just have to chance it and get theer early morning!


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

dexter said:


> just got results back from vets he said go NOW. ffs a 5 hour trip , just have to chance it and get theer early morning!


Good Luck xxx


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

Good luck Dexter !!


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

thanks just got back had a great mating....................


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Please all went well.... A long 4 weeks to wait now


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Tanya1989 said:


> Please all went well.... A long 4 weeks to wait now


yes, a very long 4 weeks lol.


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