# Questions to Ask?



## Suno (Dec 3, 2012)

Howdy all! Happy holidays, hope you are well and didnt get into too many family squabbles? 

My adventure for getting myself a nice Ragdoll (non-active, dont panic!) kitten is now in full swing and ive found a lovely breeder who lives close to me with a litter due soon!
Ive hit a small snag though and was wondering if other breeders (regardless of breed) could throw me a few questions to ask before I get in too deep.

The lady in question is very keen to get me on the phone. Since I contacted her, she has sent me a few pictures (without me even asking) of her past kittens with captions like "How beautiful do you think this kitten is?" which... raised an eyebrow to be honest.
All her past kittens are beautiful and she seems to have just what im after, the only problem is she isnt being very forthcoming about the price she charges.

I want a non-active spayed/neautered seal colour-point ragdoll kitten. Im on a budget of £350 (£400 at a stretch) which I think is a fair price to pay.

She wants to talk to me on the phone, but at the rate she has been sending me e-mails, I dont want to get too involved with her, only to find she charges more than I am willing to pay: it will just dissapoint both of us, so im planning on shooting her an e-mail with a few questions in it, something like:

How much do you charge to purchase a registered non-active spayed/neautered kitten?
How did you reach that price, could you break down the costs for me? For vaccinations/spay/neutering etc?

What do you think?
What would you ask of this breeder before you took it to the next level and decided to take the dive and get involved?
Any advice would be welcome


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## Lisac27 (Jun 8, 2012)

On the British ragdoll cat club website (on kitten availability page, sorry don't know how to post link) the advised price for pet is £375, show neuter is £375 to £400. Some breeders charge more but this is a good guideline.
Make sure your kittens parents are registered with GCCF and the parents are HCM negative.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Firstly can i say ragdolls are gorgeous..... secondly as a breeder if a potential owner asks me how i came by my price of kittens i would not sell you a kitten. A better approach would be to ask the breeder to email you some lovely photos of both parents then drop in how much would a wonderful pet be, if the breeder doesnt say how much kittens are then people cant buy them which is stupid.....prices do vary..... depends on parents show career but they should be around £375 to £450 for a pet, location plays a part aswell.
Example of my prices.... £400 fully vaccinated, insured, microchipped. Parents are not show cats.

From my 2 queens who have many champions in their lines, vaccinated, microchipped and neutered £450.

You need to also ask if the parents have been hcm tested as i now understand ragdolls need to be ..... my breed does but somebody will tell me for sure regarding the ragdolls.

If you feel the breeder is being too pushy ask yourself why.... breeders look for the best homes for their kittens a pushy breeder would put me off.
Never part with any money until you have seen the kitten and chosen it yourself, some breeders take deposits for unborn kittens but i dont think this is fair as anything can go wrong.

If you have any other questions we are im sure all happy to answer so you get the lovely pet you are looking for.


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## Suno (Dec 3, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> Firstly can i say ragdolls are gorgeous..... secondly as a breeder if a potential owner asks me how i came by my price of kittens i would not sell you a kitten.


Thank you for that! I thought my second question was cheeky also, but I reasoned that a good and responsable breeder would have a memorizeed, listed response so if they were able to answer it, it would work in their favour from my point of view.

I may have to think of another way to bring it up as you said. The directfulness may be a bit too cheeky.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

By all means do ask if you wish but the price of a kitten would be more than what the breeder quotes for vaccinations, neuter etc as remember litter, food for the mum and baby costs aswell.

If the breeder comes back at a price too low and you think you have a bargain ask to see active paperwork for the parents as this in my opinion would mean they was purchased as pets.

I wouldnt mind somebody asking me how much things cost but worded alittle different.


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## Lisac27 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hi, yes Ragdolls have to be HCM tested to be registered active, but this is a relatively new development so you will still need to check for yourself as older cats may not be tested.
It is also a good idea to ask if they have been PKD tested, although not a requirement many do test their breeding queens.
I agree with Catcoonz that a pushy breeder should be avoided, she should be asking you a mountain of questions


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Thankyou Lisac27... i wasnt sure if ragdolls had to be hcm tested so this confirms what i thought.
Also i didnt know ragdolls was pkd tested, my breed doesnt need to be tested for this (as yet), thought it was only persians.
Learn something new everyday, thankyou.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

If I costed up how mch my kittens actually cost to get - from cost of queen, stud fees, snap tests, vaccs, neuter, food, litter, toys, registration, genetic tests, factor in my time cleaning, the damage they do, the cat trees they destroy etc I would have to charge a lot more than I actually do to break even. I do actually think it is a very cheeky question ans can only point you to the sticky at the top about the cost of breeding. I don't make money and would not like to be asked to justify my price - which is what that question feels like.

For a good quality GCCF registered ragdoll i would expect a price between £350 and £400,


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

catcoonz said:


> Thankyou Lisac27... i wasnt sure if ragdolls had to be hcm tested so this confirms what i thought.
> Also i didnt know ragdolls was pkd tested, my breed doesnt need to be tested for this (as yet), thought it was only persians.
> Learn something new everyday, thankyou.


also selkirks need pkd


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## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

Have you looked to see if she has the price she charges on her website? we have it on ours, I know some breeders won't add the price onto their websites though.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

I was actually asked to justify my price with my first litter of kittens - my OH basically told me to tell them "its not a boot sale !" 

I did go back and explain why my kittens cost what they did and it actually stopped the enquirer buying an 8 week old unvaccinated kitten from a BYB 

I would just ask the price and not for a breakdown as you know how much a registered properly tested kitten should cost - the people who asked me didnt know much about pedigree registration etc but it didnt make them bad cat owners and they are now very proud to own a properly registered BSH. 

Best thing is to feel comfortable with the breeder and them with you - and if the breeder doesnt ask lots of questions about you dont buy - a breeder who is truly interested in where their kitten goes will want to know everything about you and your home. Good luck


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Firstly, if someone asked me a question like that, I'd likely not invite them to see the kittens as I'd think that they were more interested in getting good value than caring about the kitten. If they'd done their research, they should know why a good breeder charges what they do and why.

Secondly, ask yourself why she's bombarding you. Sounds like she's desperate for the sale. Why?

Thirdly, phone is really much better than email, and would provide you with a much more acceptable way of asking for price.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Suno said:


> Since I contacted her, she has sent me a few pictures (without me even asking) of her past kittens with captions like "How beautiful do you think this kitten is?" which... raised an eyebrow to be honest.


I don't understand why that would be concerning, she's showing you some cute past kittens, all breeders think they're kittens are the most adorable



Steverags said:


> Have you looked to see if she has the price she charges on her website? we have it on ours, I know some breeders won't add the price onto their websites though.


I have it on mine, as do others I know. Still doesn't stop people asking though.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

We breeders can't win can we? Reply to an initial enquiry with a short email and we're ill mannered with something to hide. Send photos and lots of info and we must be desperate to sell. Ask someone to phone for a chat and they feel we're trying to 'suck them in'. To what?


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

havoc said:


> We breeders can't win can we? Reply to an initial enquiry with a short email and we're ill mannered with something to hide. Send photos and lots of info and we must be desperate to sell. Ask someone to phone for a chat and they feel we're trying to 'suck them in'. To what?


Well said.

I can tell the kitten buyers who have done their research on the breed as the price question comes after a fair bit of initial contact and they and I are satisfied about all the other stuff. It's so easy to gain an idea of the average price - breed club sites, kittenlist etc.

If someone asked me to provide a breakdown and justify the kitten prices I'd think they were not serious kitten buyer and after a 'bargain'. To be honest I'd tell em to jog on - I breed small scale and normally have a waiting list for kittens - I don't need hagglers who want 'cheap' kittens and I want my kittens to have loving homes who want THEM not a bargain.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If someone asked me how I justified the price I'd feel they can't really afford the kitten - that if there are medical problems down the line (and it happens) they couldn't really afford the vet fees. After all, it's a big difference between being able to find £400 when you are expecting it and £400 out of the blue.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If someone asked me to provide a breakdown and justify the kitten prices I'd think they were not serious kitten buyer and after a 'bargain'. To be honest I'd tell em to jog on


That makes two of us!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> If someone asked me how I justified the price I'd feel they can't really afford the kitten


I do enjoy the occasional idiot that tries to get the price down. With every attempt they make it goes up. The best response I've ever heard was from a breeder who was asked at the outset if they would do a discount for two. Her answer - "of course I can, which one would you like me to feed less?".


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## sharon_gurney (Jan 27, 2010)

Ive never been asked to justify the cost of a kitten, and I have no problem with customers asking for a price, how else would you pay for your kitten.

I did get a bit arsey once when I received and email that just asked "whats my bottom price for a kitten" I emailed back that if they wanted a cheap kitten they maybe they should look elsewhere!


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

Prices can vary quite a bit from area to area - anywhere from £350 - £450. It may well be worth you having a chat with the breeder as you can get a "feel" for how they operate i.e. just trying to flog you a kitten or genuinely want to help/advise you and that they are also ascertaining how you may be as a potential parent to their beloved kittens. You can also at some point in that conversation just ask what they normally charge for a kitten as, as I have said, prices can vary quite a bit.


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## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

havoc said:


> The best response I've ever heard was from a breeder who was asked at the outset if they would do a discount for two. Her answer - "of course I can, which one would you like me to feed less?".


going to have to write that one down


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> going to have to write that one down


Brilliant isn't it  I wish I could take the credit but I can't.


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## Suno (Dec 3, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Firstly, if someone asked me a question like that, I'd likely not invite them to see the kittens as I'd think that they were more interested in getting good value than caring about the kitten. If they'd done their research, they should know why a good breeder charges what they do and why.
> .


A good point but having done my research and asking various (more than 10) breeders how much they charge and being told wildly varying prices, it only seems reasonable to ask how much of that goes towards the care of the kitten.
I see getting good value in a kitten a good thing. It shows me the breeder is responsable enough to do everything to make sure it is healthy. Why is asking a bad thing?

I'd be more concerned if I asked and they said "Well £150 goes towards vet stuff and the rest goes on my time" - vet bills, for £150? Is your vet on the NHS?!



spotty cats said:


> I don't understand why that would be concerning, she's showing you some cute past kittens, all breeders think they're kittens are the most adorable


It was after the first e-mail I received from her about her next expected litter. I hadnt had the time to reply the next day (Christmas JOY!) and, to be honest, in her first email, she didnt seem that interested in telling me anything other than "Lets speak on the phone about it!" - then I got a few e-mails, entitled "Look!". "How about this adorable kitten??" and "You know you want one!"
The kittens were adorable, yes, but give me time to respond between e-mails.



havoc said:


> We breeders can't win can we? Reply to an initial enquiry with a short email and we're ill mannered with something to hide. Send photos and lots of info and we must be desperate to sell. Ask someone to phone for a chat and they feel we're trying to 'suck them in'. To what?


That isnt the case at all.
When I wrote my initial e-mail, it was long and inquisitive with a little bit about me at the end.
She answered none of my questions (Until today) and just replied "Lets talk about this on the phone!"
Then the pictures began before I even had the time to reply.



OrientalSlave said:


> If someone asked me how I justified the price I'd feel they can't really afford the kitten - that if there are medical problems down the line (and it happens) they couldn't really afford the vet fees. After all, it's a big difference between being able to find £400 when you are expecting it and £400 out of the blue.


My ability to pay for the kitten has nothing to do with me being able to pay for its healthcare. I dont see its healthcare as an issue as I am lucky enough to have the money saved to pay for it.
If I did not have the money to pay for any long-term healthcare then I would not want to buy a kitten.



ChinaBlue said:


> Prices can vary quite a bit from area to area - anywhere from £350 - £450. It may well be worth you having a chat with the breeder as you can get a "feel" for how they operate i.e. just trying to flog you a kitten or genuinely want to help/advise you and that they are also ascertaining how you may be as a potential parent to their beloved kittens. You can also at some point in that conversation just ask what they normally charge for a kitten as, as I have said, prices can vary quite a bit.


Thank you for this! Somebody who didnt read between the lines of my initial post and gets how some breeders can be with other people 

My search didnt just start over-night, ive been dabbling with various websites, dipping my toes here and there and researching anything and everything I didnt understand and asking questions to anybody that is willing to listen and answer (so few people are)

A few things I have learnt in my travel (so far) is that all breeders are different and questions that may seem standard to one breeder, seems to infuriate another.
Ive been quoted prices from a little as £266 (no vet treatment at all ) to £840 (  ) with little reasoning why (im not kidding, I have the e-mail reply sitting in my inbox)

Its bloody confusing! And its alright sitting there being all "Well people who ask that obviously dont know enough to own a kitten at ALL!" but when you tell somebody very little to begin with, what do you expect them to do?

A little help and advice goes a longer way than a picky-critiqué.

In the end, I didnt ask her in the end for a price breakdown because it seems to pee a lot of people off for some reason. I dont know why, it seems like a reasonable question, but public reaction being what it is, I decided to leave it for a later date and ask the general questions about health, welfare and how much she charges for a kitten.

As it turns out, she charges £400 but does not spay/neuter her kittens before they leave, leaving it up to the new owners to do it.

Now I know most responsable breeders spay/neuter their non-active kittens before leaving for their new homes, and their prices are roundabout £375 - £450 - so it makes me wonder where the price of the spay/neuter goes - but I dare not ask now, in fear of ridicule.

Trust me, if I wanted a cheap kitten, I would go to my local shelter and adopt a moggy, so my question was not at all about shopping around for a bargin.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Can I just ask what the problem is with just picking up the phone and talking to her? All of your questions could be answered so quickly and some things don't come across well at all in an email. Sometimes there really is nothing better than a quick chat to iron out the creases  Personally I would have been over the moon if Nancy or Claude's breeders had bombarded me with photos - I think it can show enthusiasm and how much the person enjoys breeding. 

There is a sticky on here about the cost of raising a kitten for a breeder which you might find helpful.


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## Suno (Dec 3, 2012)

Aurelie said:


> Can I just ask what the problem is with just picking up the phone and talking to her? All of your questions could be answered so quickly and some things don't come across well at all in an email. Sometimes there really is nothing better than a quick chat to iron out the creases  Personally I would have been over the moon if Nancy or Claude's breeders had bombarded me with photos - I think it can show enthusiasm and how much the person enjoys breeding.
> 
> There is a sticky on here about the cost of raising a kitten for a breeder which you might find helpful.


There is no problem, I have just been busy organizing christmas, I have near years to get over now as the entire family decends on our house for the festve period so I havent exactly had time to sit down and chit-chat with my OH, let alone make a phone call


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## Chiantina (Oct 16, 2012)

Suno said:


> *Now I know most responsable breeders spay/neuter their non-active kittens before leaving for their new homes*, and their prices are roundabout £375 - £450 - so it makes me wonder where the price of the spay/neuter goes - but I dare not ask now, in fear of ridicule.


I don't know if "most" is accurate - it may be different for different breeds. My 2 Burmese came from very responsible breeders and they don't early neuter, they left it to me!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Chiantina said:


> I don't know if "most" is accurate - it may be different for different breeds.!


I think Europe is a little behind in this compared to other countries where it is 'most' who early neuter.
Though there certainly are UK breeders who early neuter, so hopefully it's becoming more common over there, it's really the only way to ensure someone can't breed or Fluffy gets out while in heat (since kittens can call before 6 months)


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Not many vets early neuter at the moment - so 'most' breeders have problems finding a vet to do so. 

I wouldn't mind at all if you asked the price of my kittens - as you would also know from my website that I vaccinate, keep the kittens until at least 13 weeks, early neuter if my vets will do it, register, feed them, provide litter, pay stud fees, snap test, provide toys, supply a lovely kitten pack including CD ROMS of all the pictures I have taken of the kittens since they were born, spend hours answering emails or talking on the phone, see everyone at least twice and supply a) my time and b) tea and cake, genetic tests for diseases and even colour in kittens, invest in a kitten pen, buy new vet bed for each litter, buy replacement milk for each litter 'just in case', buy the queen to begin with, show to make sure my cats are of the right breed standard, pay for the petrol to get to the studs and back twice, take kittens to see the vet at least 3 times, wash bedding daily, wormed, preventative flea treatment used, the next wormer provided, care sheets printed, generational pedigree provided in card and in a plastic wallet, all papers put in another wallet - BUT I still don't expect to have to put a price on all of that for a purchaser. My prices reflect what my breed club suggest - I don't try to undercut other breeders and I don't charge more either. 

So, yes, I would be offended if asked to justify all my costs. I make a loss as it is so why should my price be under scrutiny - fair enough if I charged twice what other breeders charged and you should avoid breeders that do this. BUT . . if they charge within breed club suggestions and vaccinate, register etc then what does it matter exactly how much they spend on litter, or food, or Cimicat, or washing, or how much their kitten packs are worth? 

Find out what the going rate is, make sure the kittens are vaccinated, wormed, vet checked, and health tests have been done and then if you are satisfied with the breeder as a person and her cats that's enough - I worry that you will end up with no kitten as you will put people's backs up. I know I would probably say no if quizzed in such a way. 

If you want a well raised, registered, vaccinated cat then you have to pay the price - it costs a frigging fortune to raise them.


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## Chiantina (Oct 16, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> I think Europe is a little behind in this compared to other countries where it is 'most' who early neuter.
> Though there certainly are UK breeders who early neuter, so hopefully it's becoming more common over there, it's really the only way to ensure someone can't breed or Fluffy gets out while in heat (since kittens can call before 6 months)


As someone who plans to breed next year, it is something I am doing a lot of research and reading into now! Unless I can find a good reason not to, I think it will be the path for me! I will be interested to talk to other Burmese breeder though, which I can do at the shows in the early part of next year!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Suno said:


> it only seems reasonable to ask how much of that goes towards the care of the kitten.
> 
> I see getting good value in a kitten a good thing. It shows me the breeder is responsable enough to do everything to make sure it is healthy. Why is asking a bad thing?
> 
> ...


If I may, I'd like to answer a few of your questions and make a few points also.

I don't really understand your (almost) fixation on knowing what sort of proportion of the cost has been spent on bringing a litter into the world and their care up to 13 weeks old. I wouldn't even know where to start if I was asked that question. Yes, I could refer to my spreadsheets but the costs would vary wildly... and I really DO mean wildly. The only way I could give an accurate answer would be if 'you' were asking in relation to one specific litter. Would you think it fair and reasonable and 'good value' if I quoted you £1,200 for a kitten because, actually, as sadly happens from time to time, things hadn't gone well.. large stud fee paid, fuel costs to and from (twice), cost of pre-mating tests, queen needed a c-section and only one kitten survived. Of course it wouldn't be fair to try and pass those costs onto the buyer. It's why you'll always find there's a breed average price and anything well below/well above that should always arouse suspicion. The bottom line is, has the kitten been raised and cared for really well; has the breeder done everything they should and is the kitten priced somewhere around the breed average? It really isn't so confusing.. or shouldn't be.

I completely agree that the comments sent with the photos are totally OTT and would put me off as it smacks a little of desperation.

I've never early neutered a kitten in close to 30 years of breeding nor have any of a small group of close breeder/friends. My vet will not spay/neuter before 5 months of age; I don't particularly like the idea so certainly wouldn't go out of my way to find a vet who would. Many breeders, particularly those who have been breeding for a long time, prefer to rely on experience and instinct when it comes to who they are happy to sell their kittens to. In short, don't be put off by a breeder who doesn't spay/neuter before rehoming kittens.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Spid.....Tea and cake, blimey no wonder you dont make any money lol.

I cant add anymore than whats already been said but i wish you well in finding your perfect ragdoll pet. Do have a look around and meet other breeders, im sure all your questions will be answered once you meet some kittens. I definitely would not buy a kitten that hasnt been vet checked, vaccinated or registered. Good luck.


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## broccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> that if there are medical problems down the line (and it happens) they couldn't really afford the vet fees. After all, it's a big difference between being able to find £400 when you are expecting it and £400 out of the blue.


to be fair, though i would find the money ...of course i would 

my newton had a mild dislocation - out of hours of course , and xrays etc, fixed itself  .. (he only had pain relief & antibiotics just in case)...nearly £400 
- i paid £70, doesnt even cover 1st OOH trip
because 
i pay £20 a month to insure my 2, every month (on life cover) - i would struggle to find large amounts, but £70, i can do


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## MummyCat (Jul 25, 2011)

spid said:


> If you want a well raised, registered, vaccinated cat then you have to pay the price - it costs a frigging fortune to raise them.


This makes a very interesting read regarding costs to raise an average litter of ragdolls.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

My breeder (of my 2 new additions) asked me if I would interested in early neutering. I said yes, purely because I remembered the angst I went through when I had my older three done.

My breeder didn't 'up' the price for this. She did it (I assume) for her own peace of mind that her kittens wouldn't be bred from (not that I would have bred from them, but_ if_ she didn't _know_ me, she wouldn't know that).

There is no way I would have asked her for a 'breakdown' of costs for the price of the kittens.

If you already own cats, you _know _how much daily food and litter cost. Thats without factoring in the cost of toys, treats, extra litter trays, electric for washing/drying, extra bowls etc.

Thats ignoring the stud fees, petrol to get to and from the stud, the vet fees for whatever tests they do, and maybe extra vet fees for a c-section or other complications.

Many respectable breeders (if not all) lose money on their litters.

I don't go and buy an iPad and ask for a breakdown of costs to try and justify it before I buy it (not that I have an iPad, bloody horrible things) so why would I ask a breeder for a breakdown of costs before I buy a kitten?

I either want that kitten or I don't. I either care about how it has been bred and raised or I don't. I want a kitten that has been bred responsibly, with every thought going into what is best for that kitten, or I don't.

If I am naive and uninformed I will get one from a BYB (like I did with my first three) - but once I have gained some knowledge, I would always get one from a reputable breeder that cares for their cats, and does it for love, not money.

Real breeders don't make money from their litters, even if they charge more than BYB - you really_ do_ get what you pay for.

I don't for one second regret getting any of my cats - but I will say I can honestly tell the difference between my BYB cats and my reputable breeder cats :yesnod:


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

MummyCat said:


> This makes a very interesting read regarding costs to raise an average litter of ragdolls.


couple more links to add to that! 

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/215985-cost-breeding.html

Cheap Kittens - Essex Based Pedigree Ragdoll and British Shorthair Breeders

Just to add that lots more vets are now EN maybe even in your area so always call them or check out the EN on google and cats! 

Google


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