# Poor Pierce (Warning distressing pics)



## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I decided to try to bond the two male rat groups today and all was going great at first, they were together for a couple of hours in the hamster cage, Pierce was very jumpy and squeaky, he came from a bad environment (understatement of the year there ), the rats had been fighting and killing their cage mates and he had developed a head tilt and ripped ear fighting to stay alive. Hes never seemed to speak rat so I knew if there was going to be trouble it would be with him . Well I put them back in the big (albeit empty) cage and it was ok for a while, I sat down and watched and Pierce was staying on his own. Then all hell broke out, Rasputin had Pierce on the ground and was literally savaging him, I ran to the cage and threw him off and Pierce leapt up and into my hands, hes a right mess poor lamb but I just dont know what to do now for the long term so he isnt alone, he literally wont bond with anyone but his brother Merlin, and Merlin is missing out on other rat company and hes a very social rat, Pierce is on his own in a cat carrier so he can recover and hes gone to sleep but if I hadnt been there he would be dead (no exageration), hes got a serious head tilt that hes always had from an untreated ear infection. No serious injuries but there are a lot of them and hes really subdued and traumatised.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

aww, the poor thing. Hope he's going to be okay. I don't have any advice unfortunately as I've never owned rats.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Jugsmalone said:


> aww, the poor thing. Hope he's going to be okay. I don't have any advice unfortunately as I've never owned rats.


Thanks, I think the injuries look worse than they are, luckily I was watching them closely, a minute later and he wouldnt have been here now . Im more worried about what to do with him , I think hes probably too old to neuter and put in the girls group but Im going to have to speak to the vet about that.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

omg poor Pierce! That looks awful. Maybe if he is such a lone rat, and you feel his brother is missing out, you should experiment with Pierce on his own for a while. That's the only thing I can think of sorry.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

chrisd said:


> omg poor Pierce! That looks awful. Maybe if he is such a lone rat, and you feel his brother is missing out, you should experiment with Pierce on his own for a while. That's the only thing I can think of sorry.


I think he will have to stay alone for a little while till he can calm down, then Im going to have to plan what the next step is, I hate the idea of a lone rat but Ive always called him my special needs rat, not just because of the head tilt but also because he just doesnt seem to understand how to interact with rats.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

thedogsmother said:


> I think he will have to stay alone for a little while till he can calm down, then Im going to have to plan what the next step is, I hate the idea of a lone rat but Ive always called him my special needs rat, not just because of the head tilt but also because he just doesnt seem to understand how to interact with rats.


Who's to say he doesn't have special needs, like humans I'm sure rats can have social and behavioural problems. Maybe putting him on his own will benefit him as he can just keep himself to himself. Do they free range together?


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

chrisd said:


> Who's to say he doesn't have special needs, like humans I'm sure rats can have social and behavioural problems. Maybe putting him on his own will benefit him as he can just keep himself to himself. Do they free range together?


Ive always free ranged in seperate groups, since Valentine has been a lone female I have free ranged her with the two hairless boys and Pierce loved her, so maybe getting him neutered and put in with the girls would be the answer if the vet is willing to do that. I can still free range him with the girls so he isnt totally lonely, as long as Im very careful with the younger girls who are still fertile.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

thedogsmother said:


> Ive always free ranged in seperate groups, since Valentine has been a lone female I have free ranged her with the two hairless boys and Pierce loved her, so maybe getting him neutered and put in with the girls would be the answer if the vet is willing to do that. I can still free range him with the girls so he isnt totally lonely, as long as Im very careful with the younger girls who are still fertile.


It definitely sounds like its worth consulting a vet. How old is he?


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## DogLove3 (Mar 1, 2012)

Oh dear how very worrying for you.....poor thing.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

chrisd said:


> It definitely sounds like its worth consulting a vet. How old is he?


Its a bit of a guestimate since the "breeder" had no idea who was from what litter but we think hes around 21 months, he isnt (and probably never will be) in the best of health, hes very runty but his breathing isnt problamatic which is a huge thing where operations are concerned.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Why o why can't ratties behave!  don't they know your doing it out of there best interests? Silly boys.
What he needs now is lots of cuddles and kisses.
Have u bathed his wounds to stop them from getting infected?(prob silly question)
So did u say it was the newbie the blue hooded boy that started the attack? Rastbutin?
I think maybe spk to your vet as regards neutering if he's the aggressive one.
Or could u not house valentine him and his cage mate together for now?


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

blade100 said:


> Why o why can't ratties behave!  don't they know your doing it out of there best interests? Silly boys.
> What he needs now is lots of cuddles and kisses.
> Have u bathed his wounds to stop them from getting infected?(prob silly question)
> So did u say it was the newbie the blue hooded boy that started the attack? Rastbutin?
> ...


Well Rasputin just attacked Merlin so it looks like its him who is going to have a visit to the nad fairy , poor Merlin is so chilled with other rats and wheras I can see Pierces odd behaviour starting trouble I cant see Merlin upsetting anyone. Ive taken the two hairless boys out and Im going to see if it settles down. I did have them in with Valentine as Im assured by several people that she wont be fertile, and she had a huge tumour so she wont be around for too much longer, but it really isnt totally safe and Ive been on edge in case she got pregnant so Ive taken the two hairless boys out and maybe they will have to live together for now, tis a wee bit of a shame for poor Merlin not to be able to interact with the friendlier rats though, and it was such a serious attack that I think it might be better if Rasputin had the snip in case he takes a dislike to anyone else .


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

aww bless him  i think it always looked worse on nakeds aswell  

Hope something can help what about that stuff that begins with T -tardark or something?


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Oh sorry I thought valentine was already "done" oops.

Ooh has rastbutin been with other rats before? I know he was on his own but was that the reason do u think?
Yes maybe a good idea in getting him done, then who's to say the nakeds couldn't live with the furrie family?


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

LostGirl said:


> aww bless him  i think it always looked worse on nakeds aswell
> 
> Hope something can help what about that stuff that begins with T -tardark or something?


Im not keen on Tardak, mainly down to cost, my vet charges more for an injection than it would cost for a neuter, and when the jab wears off I have to find the money for the next dose. Am I bad for using money as a consideration 



blade100 said:


> Oh sorry I thought valentine was already "done" oops.
> 
> Ooh has rastbutin been with other rats before? I know he was on his own but was that the reason do u think?
> Yes maybe a good idea in getting him done, then who's to say the nakeds couldn't live with the furrie family?


Valentine isnt a well rat hun, the vet said they wont operate on her, she really is still totally healthy and happy but shes starting to trip over the tumour and its growing really quickly now . Ive put the two nakids in a section of the explorer so they are really happy now nobody is picking on them, if Rasputin doesnt cause any more bother with anyone else I might just leave it how it is and worry about it when Im down to one lone nakid. Rasputin was with two older rats but she seperated them and Niki said she didnt say why she seperated them, he wasnt messing about with either attack though, they were both pretty serious, my oh said they look like theyve been through a cheese grater, he tried fluffing up with me but I power groomed him and he realised he wasnt going to get away with it.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Oh poor Valentine.
I've just seen your other post about her the others! Hehehe.

Tardak is useless I had humphrey done and it didn't do a thing for him.
Gill it was only £13 for the injection but £13 I could've spent on a hammock for all it's worth!

How do u power groom a ratty? Just curious as never had to do this before. Is it like pinning them down?


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2012)

Aww poor Pierce, nakeds always seem to come off worse (well we can see the damage easier lol).
Norty ratties, did you give them the talk before you started bonding them?


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Oh no poor Pierce!! Though cute pic of him cuddled up 

Rasputin was meant to have been in a group of four, two were sold together, one was sold separately and he was the last one left. He was a little skitty...not aggressive though. But who know's how long he has been on his own....supposedly a week before Gill got him but who knows. He is at the hormonal age so maybe it's the stress of moving etc he just can't cope with....but I am basically throwing guesses your way. I agree might be worth him getting the snip then...you can't take a chance with the others 

Hope Pierce feels better soon. I have heard....but am prepared to be corrected...that a dab of vaseline can help protect any (not too severe) wounds.


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## sully (May 3, 2008)

Never had rats but the more i see the more they grow on me, Peirce looks a lovely old boy and really pulled at my heart strings!


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## Claireglynn (Dec 9, 2011)

O my god the poor little man. I really hope he is ok.

Is it at all possible for you to put him with spayed girls instead of getting him neutered? 

He is gorgeous though, i so want a naked man!!!


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

blade100 said:


> Oh poor Valentine.
> I've just seen your other post about her the others! Hehehe.
> 
> Tardak is useless I had humphrey done and it didn't do a thing for him.
> ...


My vet quoted me £60 for the tardak jab. Im not even sure the power grooming isnt something I just made up, all I meant is that I hold them still while they are wriggling and trying to get away and just insist they allow me to do what I want, when they relax and give up I let them do what they want, it seems to calm them down and they all seem to know mummy will win 



B3rnie said:


> Aww poor Pierce, nakeds always seem to come off worse (well we can see the damage easier lol).
> Norty ratties, did you give them the talk before you started bonding them?


 I forgot to give the talk, thats what went wrong



niki87 said:


> Oh no poor Pierce!! Though cute pic of him cuddled up
> 
> Rasputin was meant to have been in a group of four, two were sold together, one was sold separately and he was the last one left. He was a little skitty...not aggressive though. But who know's how long he has been on his own....supposedly a week before Gill got him but who knows. He is at the hormonal age so maybe it's the stress of moving etc he just can't cope with....but I am basically throwing guesses your way. I agree might be worth him getting the snip then...you can't take a chance with the others
> 
> Hope Pierce feels better soon. I have heard....but am prepared to be corrected...that a dab of vaseline can help protect any (not too severe) wounds.


I dont think hes a generally dominant rat in the group, at least he seems to get put in his place by Flash and Koda (the two most dominant boys) and he submits to them, and I havent seen him dominating the other two boys. It just seems to be the two nakids that he has an issue with, maybe hes nakidist .



sully said:


> Never had rats but the more i see the more they grow on me, Peirce looks a lovely old boy and really pulled at my heart strings!


They really are amazing pets, they all have such individual characters and really do love interacting with people, apart for the short lifespan I just cant fault rats as pets, Pierce is such a lovely boy, he might not speak rat but he certainly knows how to speak human .



Claireglynn said:


> O my god the poor little man. I really hope he is ok.
> 
> Is it at all possible for you to put him with spayed girls instead of getting him neutered?
> 
> He is gorgeous though, i so want a naked man!!!


I wish I did have some spayed girls for him to live with, he would love that, hes happy with his brother for now (eating chicken in their hammock)


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

No your not its sensible to think of the money side, i do as a low income family i think about it all my vets wanted to charge me £70 to be ironhide to sleep sunday it wasnt something i could even think about affording  thankfully i rang the vet who pts poppy and they charged me £20.20 and were lovely.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

£60 for a small tardak injection! What the eck?? something wrong there with your vet. 
U sure he's not quoting for dog prices? 

Oh well keep us informed of how things are going.
And we need plenty of pics.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

blade100 said:


> £60 for a small tardak injection! What the eck?? something wrong there with your vet.
> U sure he's not quoting for dog prices?
> 
> Oh well keep us informed of how things are going.
> And we need plenty of pics.


She said they would have to order it in and it would be around £60 but she knew it was for a rat because I took Bitsy in to discuss it with her. I will keep you informed how theyre doing, with copious amounts of pictures of course


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## xkimxo (Jan 4, 2010)

Aww poor boy, I hope he heals up quickly and your able to come to solution x


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

aww poor Pierce, he looks such a little sweetheart aswell

hope hes much better today xx


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Oh no!!!! Descriminatory rat alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Neither of them had left the hammock all night , there were no poos and no food had been taken. I got them both up and played with them, their wounds are looking really good and are virtually healed and once they had a little play they seemed to come round, I think they thought that their attacker was maybe in the cage so they didnt dare come out. I have another announcement though, Rasputin has gone , he is no more , I decided that it was tempting fate having a rat with such an evil name so hes now called George and hes going to be a nice gentle rat from now on or hes off to visit the nad fairy


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Haha I had to re-read that post three times to actually take on board it was just a name change and that he had not packed his little suitcase and vanished!!


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I was quite shocked then but as I read more I laughed. Lovely name sounds more mellow.


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## bewitched (Jun 9, 2010)

Aww bless him. 

You know, I think it would help if he came to visit me.

Yep I'm pretty sure that's the way to go


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

Aww poor baby boy!! That has made me cry! He looks so deffenceless!! Looks really sore bless him. Please give him an extra cuddle for me! I really wish I could have a cuddle with him!! It's awful to see them like that isn't it!? Hope he gets better soon x


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

George is a good name hun, my George is a mellow little fellow.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

bewitched said:


> Aww bless him.
> 
> You know, I think it would help if he came to visit me.
> 
> Yep I'm pretty sure that's the way to go


Oh ok, I'll send him straight round, soon anyway, definately within the next 5 years :biggrin:.



Lavenderb said:


> George is a good name hun, my George is a mellow little fellow.


Ooops I knew someone had a rat called George, consider his name pinched :lol:


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