# To all Siamese Breeders - HELP!!



## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

To all Siamese Breeders

I have been told by numerous people not to use Ovarid on my Siamese.

I have used Platina 200 and Folliculinum 200  tried both of them 3 times a day (morning, noon and night) and still my girl is calling.

This is her 5th call and she first was from 20 weeks old  she is now 8 months old and im really worried that if she keeps calling, she will make herself poorly  even get pyometra!!

Please ideas anyone?????

Thanks xx


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

Ive never used ovarid so i cant really help you there, but i do use platinum metallicum 30c , iam not sure if thats the same as platina but it has helped for me.

iam sure i saw on here that you can use piriton to help calm them down.

With a bit of luck she will stop calling soon with winter coming, if you have an outdoor run it might help to put her out.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Hi Jen

Yes Platina is the same as Platina Metallicum. And im using 200c which is a higher strength than the 30c!! 

So nothing seems to be working - and she cannot be mated until early next year!

Dont have an outside run (yet) - we are building it next spring.

I know Siamese are more highly sexed than other breeds which is why i know its hard to knock them off call.

I have also tried Piriton for the last few days and still nothing!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

How big is she? Maybe you'll have to think about mating her when she is 9 months old. Is she just 8 months old or nearing 9?


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

Maybe try the folliculinum 1m, a bit more potent.

You may have to just ride it out and hope the winter comes soon.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> How big is she? Maybe you'll have to think about mating her when she is 9 months old. Is she just 8 months old or nearing 9?


She will be 8 months on 29th October

I personally dont think she is a big enough cat yet either


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Oh... Sorry then have no idea what to suggest  Poor Horny little girl!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> Oh... Sorry then have no idea what to suggest  Poor Horny little girl!


LOL - yer i know! 

Have asked her breeder - he is going to call me later.

Maybe Rraa can help when she reads it


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

where did you get the information that calling naturally causes pyo? bacteria must exist in the uterus for pyo to happen. it's common in dogs that come into heat a lot but not really in cats unless they have failed matings or a previous infection. they would call for months and months in the wild until they found a mate and survive fine. If you are worried about it speak to your vets but i wouldn't feed her anymore drugs.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

ErbslinTrouble said:


> where did you get the information that calling naturally causes pyo? bacteria must exist in the uterus for pyo to happen. it's common in dogs that come into heat a lot but not really in cats unless they have failed matings or a previous infection. they would call for months and months in the wild until they found a mate and survive fine. If you are worried about it speak to your vets but i wouldn't feed her anymore drugs.


I thought i read it somewhere about Pyo - or maybe i misinterpreted it

Either way - are u saying that she will be fine if she keeps calling??

Only problem taking her to the vets is that he will tell me to either put her on Ovarid or give the injection - both of which i only want to do as a last resort!


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

I dont know how the siamese cope with the cold, if you have a kittening pen or similar, try putting her out for a few hours in the day, its the only other thing i can think of,


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> I thought i read it somewhere about Pyo - or maybe i misinterpreted it
> 
> Either way - are u saying that she will be fine if she keeps calling??
> 
> Only problem taking her to the vets is that he will tell me to either put her on Ovarid or give the injection - both of which i only want to do as a last resort!


i asked my vet this a few weeks ago about 'over calling' causing pyo. he said it was a bit of myth as unless there is something to actually cause the bacteria in the uterus its not likely to cause it by over calling. as they would do this in the wild and have no problems. i think you get into trouble when they are mated and not successful and then go off call and then come back into it again and are not mated or if they have had a litter and an infection or complicated birth and then come into call with phantoms. then i would be worried. as long as your girl is healthy i wouldn't worry. but really if you are worried at all i wouldn't feed anymore hormones and just speak to your vets and see what they say.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, to be honest I'd mate her, my guess is that with Siamese at eight months they are about as big as they are going to get. 

If you don't want to do that, is there any way of keeping her outside for a few weeks - or keeping her in an unheated room? Cats don't naturally call in the autumn and since moving to un-centrally heated accommodation 13 years ago I only recall one cat of mine ever calling between September and December inclusive, and she went off call as soon as she went to stud and the weather turned.

Liz


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

She needs an air conditioning unit LOL....

My Oriental girl is 11months old and weighs 7lbs. My Mum's Choc Point Siamese girl is 5 years old and is only 8lbs.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

lizward said:


> Well, to be honest I'd mate her, my guess is that with Siamese at eight months they are about as big as they are going to get.
> 
> If you don't want to do that, is there any way of keeping her outside for a few weeks - or keeping her in an unheated room? Cats don't naturally call in the autumn and since moving to un-centrally heated accommodation 13 years ago I only recall one cat of mine ever calling between September and December inclusive, and she went off call as soon as she went to stud and the weather turned.
> 
> Liz


To be honest i didnt think about the cold room - i have no heating on in the conservatory and she is in there during the day. Although i have opened the door so they can go in the dining room where its warm. Maybe keep her in the conservatory only.

As for mating her - i will talk to my breeder about it. But I still think she is too young


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> She needs an air conditioning unit LOL....
> 
> My Oriental girl is 11months old and weighs 7lbs. My Mum's Choc Point Siamese girl is 5 years old and is only 8lbs.


Her parents are big cats though! I suppose because I have not had siamese before then I am not sure what size they are meant to be and I was just going by her parents size!
She wasnt the biggest in the litter, but she wasnt the smallest either


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I guess it's best to wait as long as possible though to ensure she's mature inside as well you know what I mean. But I think best to speak with her Breeder and let us know what they said. 

Just went on your website. I think we need to be treated to some recent pics of the beautiful girl in question  I love blue points.


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## Fireblade (Sep 7, 2008)

I have also been told not to give them Ovarid, our vet will not prescibe it to a maiden cat who has not been mated.
I have also been told never to leave them after the 4rd or 5th call before mating. 
My vet did say that there is no evidence to support that calling has anything to do with the pyro, and said if they are going to get it they are probably going to get it anyway.He also said mating the cat too early before it is fully matured will do more harm than leaving them to call.
This is only what i have been told, so maybe it would be best having a word with your own vet to be sure.
Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> Just went on your website. I think we need to be treated to some recent pics of the beautiful girl in question  I love blue points.


Will sort some out later fluff - am at work today so have to be careful LOL 



Fireblade said:


> I have also been told not to give them Ovarid, our vet will not prescibe it to a maiden cat who has not been mated.
> I have also been told never to leave them after the 4rd or 5th call before mating.
> My vet did say that there is no evidence to support that calling has anything to do with the pyro, and said if they are going to get it they are probably going to get it anyway.He also said mating the cat too early before it is fully matured will do more harm than leaving them to call.
> This is only what i have been told, so maybe it would be best having a word with your own vet to be sure.
> Good luck with whatever you decide.


It seems i cant win either way!! 
Anyway will speak to her breeder and let u know


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## Fireblade (Sep 7, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Will sort some out later fluff - am at work today so have to be careful LOL
> 
> It seems i cant win either way!!
> Anyway will speak to her breeder and let u know


I know just how you feel hun.
I have one that had her 1st call at 12 months old,and i have everyone saying mate here but she is that small,i dont think she is mature enough really.
Then i have another one who is the same age and has had 4 calls and i am going to mate her after the supreme.
Anyway let us know how you get on.xxxxx


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Fireblade said:


> I know just how you feel hun.
> I have one that had her 1st call at 12 months old,and i have everyone saying mate here but she is that small,i dont think she is mature enough really.
> Then i have another one who is the same age and has had 4 calls and i am going to mate her after the supreme.
> Anyway let us know how you get on.xxxxx


I just remembered that my vets wife also breeds Siams - so have tried to get hold of her to ask info. Will let u know she is not answering the phone yet


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

Siamese can be a nightmare..... try putting her in a dark room, if they don't have 12 hrs day light a day it can help calm them but if she's going full blast, it 's really difficult. 
I've read info from Dr Susan Little from the Winn foundation that does link excessive calling with pyo. Yes the bacteria has to get into the uterus, but constant calling creates the ideal environment for the bacteria [sometimes e coli, sometimes not] to be able to ascend into the womb and go crazy because it's all spongy and engorged in there from the hormones.

I am a complete beginner so have not used ovarid, but I know that many breeders do, in vastly reduced quantities though than what a vet would normally prescribe. By really knowing your girls call pattern you can sometimes use a 1/4 of a tab maybe to knock her off before she's really into it, but even then I don't think I know anyone who would use it on a maiden.

Hope your breeder has some helpful info for you.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Will sort some out later fluff - am at work today so have to be careful LOL
> 
> It seems i cant win either way!!
> Anyway will speak to her breeder and let u know


LOL.... oops didn't realize you were at work


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## emmar (Aug 1, 2008)

i use ovarid ..i give 1/4 every 2 weeks mainly cause i have a girl that everytime she calls she wees everywhere


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

emmar said:


> i use ovarid ..i give 1/4 every 2 weeks mainly cause i have a girl that everytime she calls she wees everywhere


hmm well not noticed the weeing before - but she seems to be doing it this time!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> LOL.... oops didn't realize you were at work


yes im naughty like that he he he
plus i have bugger all to do anyway LOL


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## emmar (Aug 1, 2008)

i'd mate her esp if she is calling allot


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

ErbslinTrouble said:


> where did you get the information that calling naturally causes pyo? bacteria must exist in the uterus for pyo to happen. it's common in dogs that come into heat a lot but not really in cats unless they have failed matings or a previous infection. they would call for months and months in the wild until they found a mate and survive fine. If you are worried about it speak to your vets but i wouldn't feed her anymore drugs.


Not true ET,dunno where you got the above thoughts from but it's not the correct info at least not with meezers which is the breed in question,they are at risk from Pyo's and it's quite common in Siams so you do have to be aware and this is why Z has on good advice used homeopathic remedys such as Platina/FC,also meezers are pretty much grown by 18mths/2yrs though they mature after siring a litter or having had a litter.Folliculinum Z we use 4 times a day every 3 hrs,and as yet has worked,Platina didn't work consistently on our girls and seemed to make them bad tempered,again at least imo i would never use Ovarid on our siamese girls and certainly not on a maiden,some vets it would seem not only approve of it's correct use but recommend it's use and some imo quite rightly because of the risks of it's use which are quite valid again imo would tell you never to use it especially on meezers and maiden meezers,so i suppose it's do you take a chance with the stuff and hope it works or find alternative homeopathic remedy's that will do no damage if they don't work but will with consistency work until your girl is at an age where she can be mated,if you have used the P and FC correctly and they don't work for sure,then speak to your qualified homeopath again and i'm sure you'll find something that works


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Not true ET,dunno where you got the above thoughts from but it's not the correct info at least not with meezers which is the breed in question,they are at risk from Pyo's and it's quite common in Siams so you do have to be aware and this is why Z has on good advice used homeopathic remedys such as Platina/FC,also meezers are pretty much grown by 18mths/2yrs though they mature after siring a litter or having had a litter.Folliculinum Z we use 4 times a day every 3 hrs,and as yet has worked,Platina didn't work consistently on our girls and seemed to make them bad tempered,again at least imo i would never use Ovarid on our siamese girls and certainly not on a maiden,some vets it would seem not only approve of it's correct use but recommend it's use and some imo quite rightly because of the risks of it's use which are quite valid again imo would tell you never to use it especially on meezers and maiden meezers,so i suppose it's do you take a chance with the stuff and hope it works or find alternative homeopathic remedy's that will do no damage if they don't work but will with consistency work until your girl is at an age where she can be mated,if you have used the P and FC correctly and they don't work for sure,then speak to your qualified homeopath again and i'm sure you'll find something that works


not sure what you are saying is not true as bacteria must be in the uterus for pyometra to occur.

i'm very interested in this info you have regarding it. do you have documentation and results from testing?? all the vets that i have asked about this for my girl (who mind you is a Bengal) and also the Ocicat people I spoke to as those are half Siamese seem to feel it's not a worry unless the queen is unhealthy or has had unsuccessful matings where bacteria would enter the uterus or an existing infection but not from the over calling alone. even then unless the queen is unhealthy they are still very rare cases. I would be very interested where you heard this and what experience you have in it. Thanks.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

ErbslinTrouble said:


> where did you get the information that calling naturally causes pyo? bacteria must exist in the uterus for pyo to happen. it's common in dogs that come into heat a lot but not really in cats unless they have failed matings or a previous infection. they would call for months and months in the wild until they found a mate and survive fine. If you are worried about it speak to your vets but i wouldn't feed her anymore drugs.


Don't forget in a feral community they would be mated by one or more Toms whenever they called. Who actually knows what the longest a feral queen would go unmated for, or how many of them would actually suffer infections that no one would know about? Who is going to bring them to the vet? What is the average lifespan of a feral queen and how many litters might she have had? My mum adopted and handreared a feral girl and her newborn litter , handreared as the mum died from a womb infection a couple of days after they were found


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

http://www.cfainc.org/articles/reproduction.pdf
This article helps explain why hormonal changes play a part.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

As I am sure you know when a girl is in call the uterus is open to infection. If a girl repeatedly calls without being mated then of course she is open to infection of the uterus ( a pyo) more often. My vet feels this is not so much a problem with a young girl (under 18 months old) however there are breeders up and down the country who would disagree. I can only offer my opinion and hope people who have asked for it will perhaps take it on board when reaching their decision as to what to do with a constantly calling girl (ie every two weeks!) re the risk of pyo, cystic ovaries and weight loss and general loss of condition. As I am not a vet I can only offer my opinion and experience as a Siamese breeder (which I think is was the group of people the question was aimed at). Breeders who are not experienced in Siamese and Orientals sometimes find it difficult to believe just how sexy this breed is and just how much a very real fear a pyo is. Believe me it is a very real risk in Siamese and Orientals! As for documentary evidence and testing I am fortunate that I have not needed a necropsy for any of my queens and in my opinion (a opinion shared by many Siamese breeders) the reason I have not lost any of my girls is because I have been VERY aware of the very real risk of pyometra. I also take offense at the inference that a girl with a pyo is probably due to the poor state of health she is in, their are many heartbroken Siamese breeders who would also take enormous offense to your comments!


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> As I am sure you know when a girl is in call the uterus is open to infection. If a girl repeatedly calls without being mated then of course she is open to infection of the uterus ( a pyo) more often. My vet feels this is not so much a problem with a young girl (under 18 months old) however there are breeders up and down the country who would disagree. I can only offer my opinion and hope people who have asked for it will perhaps take it on board when reaching their decision as to what to do with a constantly calling girl (ie every two weeks!) re the risk of pyo, cystic ovaries and weight loss and general loss of condition. As I am not a vet I can only offer my opinion and experience as a Siamese breeder (which I think is was the group of people the question was aimed at). Breeders who are not experienced in Siamese and Orientals sometimes find it difficult to believe just how sexy this breed is and just how much a very real fear a pyo is. Believe me it is a very real risk in Siamese and Orientals! As for documentary evidence and testing I am fortunate that I have not needed a necropsy for any of my queens and in my opinion (a opinion shared by many Siamese breeders) the reason I have not lost any of my girls is because I have been VERY aware of the very real risk of pyometra. I also take offense at the inference that a girl with a pyo is probably due to the poor state of health she is in, their are many heartbroken Siamese breeders who would also take enormous offense to your comments!


my comments are only what i have been told by a vet and what i have read in veterinary books whilst studying at school at the moment. but they aren't breed specific so i was asking where you got your info from and to tell me more about it. you shouldn't take offense it's not meant personally. i'm trying to learn here?!?please don't take offense as it wasn't meant that way and i'm sorry you felt it was.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> As I am sure you know when a girl is in call the uterus is open to infection. If a girl repeatedly calls without being mated then of course she is open to infection of the uterus ( a pyo) more often. My vet feels this is not so much a problem with a young girl (under 18 months old) however there are breeders up and down the country who would disagree. I can only offer my opinion and hope people who have asked for it will perhaps take it on board when reaching their decision as to what to do with a constantly calling girl (ie every two weeks!) re the risk of pyo, cystic ovaries and weight loss and general loss of condition. As I am not a vet I can only offer my opinion and experience as a Siamese breeder (which I think is was the group of people the question was aimed at). Breeders who are not experienced in Siamese and Orientals sometimes find it difficult to believe just how sexy this breed is and just how much a very real fear a pyo is. Believe me it is a very real risk in Siamese and Orientals! As for documentary evidence and testing I am fortunate that I have not needed a necropsy for any of my queens and in my opinion (a opinion shared by many Siamese breeders) the reason I have not lost any of my girls is because I have been VERY aware of the very real risk of pyometra. I also take offense at the inference that a girl with a pyo is probably due to the poor state of health she is in, their are many heartbroken Siamese breeders who would also take enormous offense to your comments!


Thanks Kel

The reason I prefer the advice from a Siam breeder is because they are a specialist in the Siam breed as a breeder. A vet cannot be a specialist to every animal of every breed.


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Leah100 said:


> http://www.cfainc.org/articles/reproduction.pdf
> This article helps explain why hormonal changes play a part.


thank you i just read it though it still doesn't say that over calling causes pyo just makes the environment for it easier for bacteria. I would have thought with care and observation of the queen it would be preventative? if she's cleaning her bottom regularly and is kept in a clean place i would have thought that would have lowered the risks no? also not allowing other queens or neuters to groom her or share a box maybe? I'm curious. what is the ratio of the cases of this with the breed? is it really that common in oriental and asian breeds? or is it just as rare as with others?


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## Sphynxskin (Mar 6, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> As I am sure you know when a girl is in call the uterus is open to infection. If a girl repeatedly calls without being mated then of course she is open to infection of the uterus ( a pyo) more often. My vet feels this is not so much a problem with a young girl (under 18 months old) however there are breeders up and down the country who would disagree. I can only offer my opinion and hope people who have asked for it will perhaps take it on board when reaching their decision as to what to do with a constantly calling girl (ie every two weeks!) re the risk of pyo, cystic ovaries and weight loss and general loss of condition. As I am not a vet I can only offer my opinion and experience as a Siamese breeder (which I think is was the group of people the question was aimed at). Breeders who are not experienced in Siamese and Orientals sometimes find it difficult to believe just how sexy this breed is and just how much a very real fear a pyo is. Believe me it is a very real risk in Siamese and Orientals! As for documentary evidence and testing I am fortunate that I have not needed a necropsy for any of my queens and in my opinion (a opinion shared by many Siamese breeders) the reason I have not lost any of my girls is because I have been VERY aware of the very real risk of pyometra. I also take offense at the inference that a girl with a pyo is probably due to the poor state of health she is in, their are many heartbroken Siamese breeders who would also take enormous offense to your comments!


Sorry to jump in on this thread but it has some relevence to what i'm going through at the moment with my Sphynx, who is 15mths. I'm taking her to the vet in the morning as she is being treated for an infection(pyo?) after coming back from stud. ive been advised to knock it on the head with a steroid injection, instead of waiting...


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## Fireblade (Sep 7, 2008)

I have heard of a lot of siamese breeders who have had girls with pyro, and they have been in brilliant condition,not run down at all.xxxx


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

I have siamese and orientals, who call madly when they are young, but I have found that when they get to 8/9 mths, they take a break and you get a few months of no yelling.

I have never had a maiden develop pyo from calling more than 3 or 5 times - the limits I have heard other breeders say. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but from what I have seen it does seem to run in lines, some seem to be more prone than others, so I would ask her breeder if she knows of any instances of it.

I personally would not use ovarid, especially on a maiden.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

ErbslinTrouble said:


> thank you i just read it though it still doesn't say that over calling causes pyo just makes the environment for it easier for bacteria. I would have thought with care and observation of the queen it would be preventative? if she's cleaning her bottom regularly and is kept in a clean place i would have thought that would have lowered the risks no? also not allowing other queens or neuters to groom her or share a box maybe? I'm curious. what is the ratio of the cases of this with the breed? is it really that common in oriental and asian breeds? or is it just as rare as with others?


I would say the opposite, the fact that she is constantly cleaning and licking could actually aid the transport of bacteria. The increased discharge and as SK said the 'open' engorged nature of the reproductive tract all could help facilitate an inection or full blown pyo. Keeping other cats away wouldn't make any difference [imo] as the bacteria could very well be her own , but able to do awful damage once it is inside her and in an environment hospitable to it's growth.
My own girl started calling voraciously at 5 mnths old, and as I am very open to the observations of Siamese and Oriental breeders with literally decades of experience, and also my own reading , pyometra or endometritis is something constantly in the back of my mind. My girl's kittens are now 9 weeks old and she has been in full throttle call for a fortnight. When she has completely finished feeding and they have been homed I will be investigating methods of hormone control as I do not want to breed her again until she has had a good long rest and I am certainly not going to allow her to lose condition and be at risk with unrequited calling. I have been talking to many siamese/ori breeders regularly now for 2 yrs, before I started breeding, and not one of them has been completely untouched by this. I would also like to say that they all treat their cats as well as they would their children and not one that I know of who has suffered the heartbreak of watching a beloved girl suffer through this had 'unhealthy' queens.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Leah100 said:


> I would say the opposite, the fact that she is constantly cleaning and licking could actually aid the transport of bacteria. The increased discharge and as SK said the 'open' engorged nature of the reproductive tract all could help facilitate an inection or full blown pyo. Keeping other cats away wouldn't make any difference [imo] as the bacteria could very well be her own , but able to do awful damage once it is inside her and in an environment hospitable to it's growth.
> My own girl started calling voraciously at 5 mnths old, and as I am very open to the observations of Siamese and Oriental breeders with literally decades of experience, and also my own reading , pyometra or endometritis is something constantly in the back of my mind. My girl's kittens are now 9 weeks old and she has been in full throttle call for a fortnight. When she has completely finished feeding and they have been homed I will be investigating methods of hormone control as I do not want to breed her again until she has had a good long rest and I am certainly not going to allow her to lose condition and be at risk with unrequited calling. I have been talking to many siamese/ori breeders regularly now for 2 yrs, before I started breeding, and not one of them has been completely untouched by this. I would also like to say that they all treat their cats as well as they would their children and not one that I know of who has suffered the heartbreak of watching a beloved girl suffer through this had 'unhealthy' queens.


Yes i hadnt thought about that. Even when she is old enough to be mated, I am going to face the same problem is she calls after a litter and I dont feel that she is ready or in good condition to have another litter so soon - what then??


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

Also I don't think that anyone has actually said [if you read back] that pyo is definitely a direct result of sustained calling, it has been mentioned several times already on the thread and in Dr Littles Article that the pyo may well be indirectly caused, but never the less the link is there.
EColi is a bacteria that can live in us and cats and other mammals unless it gets into the wrong place/starts to overgrow.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Yes i hadnt thought about that. Even when she is old enough to be mated, I am going to face the same problem is she calls after a litter and I dont feel that she is ready or in good condition to have another litter so soon - what then??


That's what I'm hoping to learn  I like the sound of SK's success with the homeopathy, and I have had great and disastrous reports of ovarid, but I know that breeders who really really know their queen's cycle have used it carefully to no detriment. I don't know enough about either yet myself to decide yet


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Leah100 said:


> That's what I'm hoping to learn  I like the sound of SK's success with the homeopathy, and I have had great and disastrous reports of ovarid, but I know that breeders who really really know their queen's cycle have used it carefully to no detriment. I don't know enough about either yet myself to decide yet


Sk is a very wise and experienced Siam breeder and has helped me a lot.
She knows her stuff with the homeopath stuff - as does May.

Im not gonna let my meezer anywhere near Ovarid. Even her breeder begged me not to use it!

But there is a lot of push and pull out there over the opinions of Ovarid.

But i think meezers are a special breed of their own (having had moggies and burmese previously). They certainly are!!!


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Sk is a very wise and experienced Siam breeder and has helped me a lot.
> She knows her stuff with the homeopath stuff - as does May.
> 
> Im not gonna let my meezer anywhere near Ovarid. Even her breeder begged me not to use it!
> ...


Definitely! They do EVERYTHING to extremes, which is why I love them!


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

ErbslinTrouble said:


> my comments are only what i have been told by a vet and what i have read in veterinary books whilst studying at school at the moment. but they aren't breed specific so i was asking where you got your info from and to tell me more about it. you shouldn't take offense it's not meant personally. i'm trying to learn here?!?please don't take offense as it wasn't meant that way and i'm sorry you felt it was.


Apology accepted ET,it was a bold statement and an untrue one to state when you have little or no knowledge of such issues,sadly it's not a rare situation amongst the Siamese/Ori breed and is so fast acting and even the most healthiest of queens have suffered with it,some have recovered wonderfully and some tragically have not,as always i only ever try to offer advice from my own experiences and opinions as i believe them to be true,others will do the same and always we all are learning


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

It is quite true that calling repeatedly without mating can cause pyo i a susceptible queen - they wouldn't go months without being mated in the wild. The general rule of thumb is not to let a queen call more than 3 times without mating or using something to stop the cycle (ovarid or delvosterone injection, the former is far preferable). I doubt very much that any homeopathic remedy would work, but Piriton does certainly quieten a calling queen for a few hourse and some breeders say it actually stops the call, but I can't think of any reason why it should as it's merely an antihistamine with a slight sedative effect.
If the queen is at least 5 lbs in weight she should be OK to be mated, and remember that by the time she has the kittens she'll be 11 months of age anyway.
It could be useful to find out a litte about the history of your girl's line as regards fertility and calling - if her female ancestors have any history of pyo, difficulties conceiving etc then you really shoudln't delay mating her for much longer.



ErbslinTrouble said:


> where did you get the information that calling naturally causes pyo? bacteria must exist in the uterus for pyo to happen. it's common in dogs that come into heat a lot but not really in cats unless they have failed matings or a previous infection. they would call for months and months in the wild until they found a mate and survive fine. If you are worried about it speak to your vets but i wouldn't feed her anymore drugs.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

With all due respect, as has been stated before on this group and others, not many vets have any real experience of breeding cats, so they simply can't know all the ins and outs as experienced breeders do.



ErbslinTrouble said:


> my comments are only what i have been told by a vet and what i have read in veterinary books whilst studying at school at the moment. but they aren't breed specific so i was asking where you got your info from and to tell me more about it. you shouldn't take offense it's not meant personally. i'm trying to learn here?!?please don't take offense as it wasn't meant that way and i'm sorry you felt it was.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

The bacteria (commonly e coli) are always present in the vagina, and repeated calling sets up favourable conditions for the bugs to proliferate in the uterus, causing pyo. I have learned this by reading and listening to world feline reproduction experts such as Dr Susan Little, speaking at Seminars.



ErbslinTrouble said:


> not sure what you are saying is not true as bacteria must be in the uterus for pyometra to occur.
> 
> i'm very interested in this info you have regarding it. do you have documentation and results from testing?? all the vets that i have asked about this for my girl (who mind you is a Bengal) and also the Ocicat people I spoke to as those are half Siamese seem to feel it's not a worry unless the queen is unhealthy or has had unsuccessful matings where bacteria would enter the uterus or an existing infection but not from the over calling alone. even then unless the queen is unhealthy they are still very rare cases. I would be very interested where you heard this and what experience you have in it. Thanks.


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> I doubt very much that any homeopathic remedy would work, .


Do you just mean in this case or homeopathy in general?


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

Sorry - I meant in this case. I do believe that homeopathy can be very helpful in certain circumstances - e.g. i know arnica works brilliantly, from personal experience.



Jen26 said:


> Do you just mean in this case or homeopathy in general?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> The bacteria (commonly e coli) are always present in the vagina, and repeated calling sets up favourable conditions for the bugs to proliferate in the uterus, causing pyo. I have learned this by reading and listening to world feline reproduction experts such as Dr Susan Little, speaking at Seminars.


Thanks for confirming that SK & Naomi - i thought I was going mad thinking that Pyo can be caused my excessive calling without mating! LOL


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Have you decided your plan of action yet? any piccys yet? or, are you still at work ?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> Have you decided your plan of action yet? any piccys yet? or, are you still at work ?


still at work LOL


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

When I got my first ever Persian for show/breed, I was a bit naive as just starting out. I got it into my mind that I wanted to show her and get her to champion before mating her.

As a result she had many calls without being mated. She got up to 2 cc's closely followed by a Pyo  It is far too much of a coincidence for Pyo's not to be brought on by excessive calling and none of my girls have had one since


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*My vets have always told me to keep an eye on my girls if they are calling too much, as it does cause pyo. Which is why they are happy to help with things to stop the calling for a while*


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

All sounds a proper nightmare this Pyro thing 

I've neutered my girl now so at least I know she won't get this horrible pyro thing nor do I have to worry about calling  YAY.. LOL...


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Well i have spoken to her breeder who is going to text me some other homeopathic remedies to try - he is actually on his way to see a specialist homeopath as we speak!

I have also spoken to a Siam breeder whom is the wife of my vet and she reckons i should mate her.

ill try the other remedies first tho i think


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Good Luck Z,i know you'll as always do right by this sexy lady


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> When I got my first ever Persian for show/breed, I was a bit naive as just starting out. I got it into my mind that I wanted to show her and get her to champion before mating her.
> 
> As a result she had many calls without being mated. She got up to 2 cc's closely followed by a Pyo  It is far too much of a coincidence for Pyo's not to be brought on by excessive calling and none of my girls have had one since


I was hoping to get lulu to champ before i mated her, she is 6 months old now and hasnt called, Thank god! i dont think she will now untill spring, if her winning streak continues she should be champ by the end of feb.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

fingers crossed for her being a champ


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> fingers crossed for her being a champ


Yeah, fingers crossed, dont want to count my chickens too early though

Sorry for going off topic


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Jen26 said:


> I was hoping to get lulu to champ before i mated her, she is 6 months old now and hasnt called, Thank god! i dont think she will now untill spring, if her winning streak continues she should be champ by the end of feb.


Well you cant get your cc's Jen til they are 9 month which would take us to middle of January, you would have to get them pretty quick to get them by end of Feb, almost consecutive shows. However hope you do it! It has been known to get all 3 in consec shows, so best of luck to you


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

It has been know to get Imp in 5 consec shows


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Oh I can only dream about stuff like that Fluffs


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

lol ...................


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Well you cant get your cc's Jen til they are 9 month which would take us to middle of January, you would have to get them pretty quick to get them by end of Feb, almost consecutive shows. However hope you do it! It has been known to get all 3 in consec shows, so best of luck to you


I would have to get 3 straight wins, ive already booked the time off work,lol

I think shes good enough so i will just have to wait an see


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Have you got three different judges as well Jen? I found that the tricky bit


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Have you got three different judges as well Jen? I found that the tricky bit


Oh bugga! i forgot that bit

Hopefully they will be different, can you get a countersignature if its the same judge?


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I think that's only if they give you a substitute judge on the day, say yours cant turn up and you end up with one you've already got a cc off, then you can get a countersignature.  So if you have entered under 3 different ones you would be ok


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> I think that's only if they give you a substitute judge on the day, say yours cant turn up and you end up with one you've already got a cc off, then you can get a countersignature.  So if you have entered under 3 different ones you would be ok


Theres always a cople of shows in march just incase,


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## Fireblade (Sep 7, 2008)

Fingers crossed here for you Jen,You can do it in 3 consecutive shows,i did.xxxx


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

yes that's right - the only problem would be if the replacement judge refused to countersign if they thought the cat wasn't good enough - I have heard of that happening 
never count your chickens 



Saynamore said:


> I think that's only if they give you a substitute judge on the day, say yours cant turn up and you end up with one you've already got a cc off, then you can get a countersignature.  So if you have entered under 3 different ones you would be ok


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> yes that's right - the only problem would be if the replacement judge refused to countersign if they thought the cat wasn't good enough - I have heard of that happening
> never count your chickens


Do you with hold many, at a few shows lately ive seen cats with no one else in the class and theve with held 1st an bob and gave it 2nd, if that happened to my cat i dont think i would show it again


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

It would be a bit horrible to find you'd been placed 2nd and you were the only cat 

My cat was W/C at a show and it just seemed like such a waste of a journey etc...


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> It would be a bit horrible to find you'd been placed 2nd and you were the only cat
> 
> My cat was W/C at a show and it just seemed like such a waste of a journey etc...


Tricky had a pc with held at the gwynedd, he has never had an ic with held before they got championship, he wasnt at his best i suppose that day, hes had 2 since so he just needs the 3rd now for premier


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

I have withheld a couple of CCs since i've been a full judge - it's often worse if there is only one cat in the class, as all you can compare it with is the standard! There would have to be a valid reason to withhold 1st and BOB, the judge has to be able to justify their decision.



Jen26 said:


> Do you with hold many, at a few shows lately ive seen cats with no one else in the class and theve with held 1st an bob and gave it 2nd, if that happened to my cat i dont think i would show it again


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Jen26 said:


> Do you with hold many, at a few shows lately ive seen cats with no one else in the class and theve with held 1st an bob and gave it 2nd, if that happened to my cat i dont think i would show it again


I've had it happened once Jen and was gutted. It was a 4 month old kitten and a new judge who was dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's, she said she had a small bump to the head and that was the reason for it


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Oh I can only dream about stuff like that Fluffs


LOL! Me too!

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> It would be a bit horrible to find you'd been placed 2nd and you were the only cat


It's happened to me at least twice. The really annoying thing is that for the cat it happened to, the open class report just never seems to have appeared - or at least it didn't up to the time OC changed hands and since I have nothing to show at the moment I haven't bothered getting a subscription. I can have a pretty good guess at the reason for withholding - the girl concerned has a very peculiar coat length, far too short for a Tiffanie and far too long for a Burmilla, and with a very strange texture too which resembles neither breed, but it would be nice to know for sure.

Incidentally I know someone who, many years ago, came 3rd out of 1!!

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> I have withheld a couple of CCs since i've been a full judge


LOL! It's at least three, Naomi  there was a class of tiffanies you were less than impressed with, remember? 

[disclaimer and bootlick - I have the utmost respect for Naomi's judgment  Seriously - if you automatically get the CC because you are the only one in the class, and let's face it in many breeds these days that is the case, what is it actually worth?]

Liz


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

So my update is..................

I spoke to my breeder and he put me in touch with a homeopath and she was really lovely and gave me excellent advice.

These are the things I can try:

1) Giving more doses throughout the day (but same strength of medicine)
2) Putting granules in her drinking water
3) The "Cotton Bud Method"  (i guess im gonna need a glass of wine for that one!!) Those of you who have heard of it, will know what i mean


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> So my update is..................
> 
> I spoke to my breeder and he put me in touch with a homeopath and she was really lovely and gave me excellent advice.
> 
> ...


Ye ive heard of the 'Q TIP' method, not for me but each to there own, iam surprised he didnt suggest putting her out though,

Has he got outdoor runs, he could have her for a few weeks untill the winters set in


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I personally wouldn't attempt the cotten wool method.......... Oh, and not drunk, what if you slipped


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Jen26 said:


> Ye ive heard of the 'Q TIP' method, not for me but each to there own, iam surprised he didnt suggest putting her out though,
> 
> Has he got outdoor runs, he could have her for a few weeks untill the winters set in


I dont have an outdoor run to put her out.
He cant have her as he is 4 hours away! 



fluffypurrs said:


> I personally wouldn't attempt the cotten wool method.......... Oh, and not drunk, what if you slipped


I was joking about the wine fluff


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I know u were joking


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> I know u were joking


ha ha - funny how text can be read isnt it when u are not actually talking to the person. You cannot hear their tone of voice to know if they are joking or not 
Same goes for text messages too - they can be read out of context!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I know it's a pain.

Anyways just hope some of her breeder's suggestions work!!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Will let u know fluff


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> I think we need to be treated to some recent pics of the beautiful girl in question  I love blue points.


Just for you fluff


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I WANT HER!!! She is beautiful and looks so grown up 

Thanks for posting the pic for me!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> I WANT HER!!! She is beautiful and looks so grown up
> 
> Thanks for posting the pic for me!


awwww thanks hun - i think she is lovely too but im biased!
I sent this pic to her breeder and he said she looks very regal LOL


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

She certainly does.


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## audrey1824 (Aug 1, 2008)

Pyo's in Siamese, who call a lot, is quite common, as a Siamese breeder of 30 years I can tell you I know numerous people whose girls have got a Pyo before they are 12 months old, cats are considered adult at 9 months old, if your girl is big enough I would mate her a bit before 9months, if her calls are very strong.
I don't like using Ovarid on a maiden girl, but have done it in the past, you give a quarter of a 5 ml tablet every 2 or 3 weeks, but start giving it before she comes on call.
Incidently I have been using Ovarid in this way for many years as have other experienced breeders, our knowledge is hands on and not just out of a book.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

audrey1824 said:


> Pyo's in Siamese, who call a lot, is quite common, as a Siamese breeder of 30 years I can tell you I know numerous people whose girls have got a Pyo before they are 12 months old, cats are considered adult at 9 months old, if your girl is big enough I would mate her a bit before 9months, if her calls are very strong.
> I don't like using Ovarid on a maiden girl, but have done it in the past, you give a quarter of a 5 ml tablet every 2 or 3 weeks, but start giving it before she comes on call.
> Incidently I have been using Ovarid in this way for many years as have other experienced breeders, our knowledge is hands on and not just out of a book.


Thanks Audrey - will see how we get on


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

A very interesting thread indeed with many interesting replies - and they are all valid. 

Luckily, as far as I am aware, my girls do not seem to have pyometra in their history. Nonetheless I accept that some lines do. I can see the logic in Steph's statement that for there to be an infection there needs to be bacterium introduced to the environment of the uterus etc and for that to happen, there needs to be a mating - I doubt whether a queen licking herself will sufficiently introduce any bacterium or diseases but that is my own opinion and I am ready to go back and read further in case I am mistaken. 

I have also heard that many stud owners will try to scare queen owners into hurrying up and getting the queen mated - the quicker to make a buck but that could be rather cynical. 

Here is some advice I have been given by a very good friend who has many many years of experience (at least three times as long as my mere 7 or 8 years) and who has given me some excellent advice about homeopathic treatments for my girls - which have all worked for me when I took her advice. 

To quieten/lengthen time between calling, I have used platina 200 to very good effect but you have to administer it very methodically. I gave my queen a tablet as soon as she started to call and every day three times a day for as long as she called plus one day to make sure. 

The next call commenced later (ie not two weeks but maybe 3 or more weeks hence) and was milder but I did the same again since I did not intend to breed from her yet. 

I agree about avoiding Ovarid or any chemical drug to alter her hormones - this can take many months to sort out afterwards and you may find that when you do want her to be mated, she may not have got back her hormonal equilibrium. 

However, if you decide to mate your queen, lets hope she has a nice healthy litter of lovely babies. No harm in that when she is going to be nearly a year old by the time they are born. If she is going to be much younger, my own suggestion would be to err on the side of gentle treatment - at the end of the day, take your vet's advice, take your mentor's advice and make a decision based upon your knowledge of your queen's line. 

Wishing you lots of happiness with her.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

How is she doing now?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Finished her call now - but she was in full swing and spraying. She has not done this before! 
Im still unsure what to do to be honest


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

Thought I would put in my 5 eggs worth again!!

Bengals seem pretty similar in calling patterns as the Siamese. As a new breeder I have breeders I speak to & help mentor me. My girl had her 1st call at 7 & a half months then again 2 weeks later then she went 24 days & called again. So she had 3 calls in about a month & a half. 

Ok my neuter boy on her 3rd call tried 'doing the do' (he's an indoor cat by the way) which luckily knocked her off for 6 weeks so then her 4th call she was about 10 & half months still quite petite I thought anyway successful mating resulted in 6 healthy kittens

I hope this helps as a lot of Bengal breeders sites it does say not to let them have more than 3 calls without being bred because of risk of pyo.

Another thing if you think your queen is quite petite they sometimes suggest a controlled mating the first time. I am no expert by any means but hope this info is useful & not meaning to stick my nose in


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Abooksigun said:


> I hope this helps as a lot of Bengal breeders sites it does say not to let them have more than 3 calls without being bred because of risk of pyo.


what were you saying you hoped helped? that it is proven fact for the breed of bengals to get pyo easily like the siamese or that it doesn't?


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

I beg your pardon, yes what I was saying is that Bengals can easily get pyo too. As when the breed 1st arrived in the UK Breeders wouldn't let a maiden queen have a litter before a year. The problem with that is over the years Bengal breeders lost queens due to pyo so most Bengal breeders will agree if you have a prolific caller then she may need mating before she is a year that's where the controlled mating I spoke about came from. Hope this makes it a bit clearer for you & others!!


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Abooksigun said:


> I beg your pardon, yes what I was saying is that Bengals can easily get pyo too. As when the breed 1st arrived in the UK Breeders wouldn't let a maiden queen have a litter before a year. The problem with that is over the years Bengal breeders lost queens due to pyo so most Bengal breeders will agree if you have a prolific caller then she may need mating before she is a year that's where the controlled mating I spoke about came from. Hope this makes it a bit clearer for you & others!!


um you're pardoned?
ah ok sorry your wording was lacking conformation for me it sounded as if it could go either way as you didn't yourself add an experience of one of yours having pyo but you did give example of the calling with no pyo... thank you for confirming.


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

No problem  I haven't had experience myself no just the info I have been given during my research before starting my breeding programme.

Sometimes have a tendancy to waffle without explaining properly  sorry about that


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Abooksigun said:


> No problem  I haven't had experience myself no just the info I have been given during my research before starting my breeding programme.
> 
> Sometimes have a tendancy to waffle without explaining properly  sorry about that


hehe yeah i tend to waffle on about animal care too since i work with animals. i'm still not quite convinced about the here say of pyo from lack of breeding and over calling. but i will keep it in mind. i have full access to a vets as i work there so if there is a problem i'm covered. but myself, my vet, my colleagues and many of my vet friends and nurses don't feel my bengal queen is in danger only from calling longer than 3 times. as long as she's healthy in herself and not too stressed (as this could effect her health) and she's not put with a male until we are ready to breed her they don't feel she's at risk. 
I can appreciate peoples concerns though and I can appreciate the difference in breeds and how they may be different. Everyone and every situation is different and if you feel your queen is at risk speak to your vet as I did. I have only heard people say to be careful and read it, but none of these have been backed up with their own experience of getting pyo only from not breeding and letting the queen call, they were all passed on stories from stories of someone who might have had it happen. 
I know many people on here will disagree, but this is just how i feel and i don't think i'm going to change my mind, i'll be cautious but i'm not going to go out of my way to worry about it all the time. if it happens it happens and she will be well looked after. i and many other qualified veterinary people that i'm in contact with are confident i have nothing to worry about.


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

From what I know it's something to do with when the queen calls her 'tutu' opens up which means that whilst it's open, all it takes is for a slight germ to get in then once finished calling it all closes back up again in turn locking the germ in there which then can cause pyo.
So I suppose what they mean is each time she calls it opens up risking the pyo factor more. I think that's right but hope that is helpful too!


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

Just thought I would add that sometimes the people who know a particular breed inside out can be better for info rather than vets themselves. Just my opinion as we are all entitled & vets are very important but I see them like a GP as in unless they breed themselves they are not always experts in how a particular breed may be unlike the breeders who get to know their breed of cat/dog.

Not meaning to come across rude just my opinion


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Abooksigun said:


> From what I know it's something to do with when the queen calls her 'tutu' opens up which means that whilst it's open, all it takes is for a slight germ to get in then once finished calling it all closes back up again in turn locking the germ in there which then can cause pyo.
> So I suppose what they mean is each time she calls it opens up risking the pyo factor more. I think that's right but hope that is helpful too!


it sort of works that way. but generally when a queen is calling and is not stressed and is very healthy her body should fight this 'foreign' encounter off. it's when it doesn't and the body basically treats the whole uterus as a foreign and turns for the worse. maybe some breeds aren't as immune? sort of how some humans can fight off somethings better than others which is usually genetic or over upbringing and environment. it's likely that the same thing happens with breeds of cats. maybe the foreign breeds might be more susceptible to some bacteria as they were not exposed to it in evolving and breeding in their region of origin. therefore making them more at risk than others would be.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Finished her call now - but she was in full swing and spraying. She has not done this before!
> Im still unsure what to do to be honest


i would prehaps have her mated next call. has she lost condition at all from all the calling etc?


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Abooksigun said:


> Just thought I would add that sometimes the people who know a particular breed inside out can be better for info rather than vets themselves. Just my opinion as we are all entitled & vets are very important but I see them like a GP as in unless they breed themselves they are not always experts in how a particular breed may be unlike the breeders who get to know their breed of cat/dog.
> 
> Not meaning to come across rude just my opinion


no not rude at all and i completely agree. two of the vets and one of the nurses i have spoken to breeds exotics or owns them and one works as a vet at shows in america.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

"tutu" that is great, love it!!!!!!! lol, i refered to my girl's as her "flo"


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> "tutu" that is great, love it!!!!!!! lol, i refered to my girl's as her "flo"


Hee hee!! glad you like BW


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> "tutu" that is great, love it!!!!!!! lol, i refered to my girl's as her "flo"


we called it a 'coochie' or 'whowho' when i was little. :lol::blush:


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> i would prehaps have her mated next call. has she lost condition at all from all the calling etc?


I have to say I agree with you on that BW


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

Abooksigun said:


> I have to say I agree with you on that BW


i would agree if she's lost condition as another call with no mate could stress her even more if this time has done so.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

my mum used to call it a "tinkerly" when i was little as you do a "tinkle" out of it.


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

'tinkerley' PMSL I love that one:smilewinkgrin:


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2008)

One of my girls is calling literally 4 weeks apart, for 2 weeks at a time. She is coming up 8 months and doesn't seem to be suffering at all - I am hoping that as it gets colder, she will gradually come out of it.

She is a big girl though so if I have to mate her slightly under a year, I wouldn't be too worried about it. She had a recent health check and the vet said she is in great condition and all her swabs etc came back clear so I reckon she will be our first mating. Can't wait as she is our tortie smoke girl and absolutely gorgeous!!!

Lou
X


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

She has not lost condition at all at the moment luckily.

I have a couple of studs on standby - upon closer inspection, i dont think she is as small as i originally thougt. I think its just that she is slimmer than the others. Burmese are stocky and muscly and Siams are a lot slimmer. She is the same size (if not taller) than my full grown Burmese.

I tried the cotton bud trick - but still she is persistant! :yikes:


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

:biggrin5: really! you're a brave lady. 

i am sure so long as she is in good heath etc mating her on next call will be ideal! what colour stud???? exciting a litter of siamese!!!!!!!!!!!!! :biggrin5::biggrin5:


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Biawhiska said:


> :biggrin5: really! you're a brave lady.
> 
> i am sure so long as she is in good heath etc mating her on next call will be ideal! what colour stud???? exciting a litter of siamese!!!!!!!!!!!!! :biggrin5::biggrin5:


Now lets not get all excited - im not doing it for definate yet.
But it will either be with a chocolate or seal stud


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> She has not lost condition at all at the moment luckily.
> 
> I have a couple of studs on standby - upon closer inspection, i dont think she is as small as i originally thougt. I think its just that she is slimmer than the others. Burmese are stocky and muscly and Siams are a lot slimmer. She is the same size (if not taller) than my full grown Burmese.
> 
> I tried the cotton bud trick - but still she is persistant! :yikes:


The calling will keep her from gaining weight, they just seem to burn so much energy and are not really interested in food when they are really going for it.

If the stud owner is experienced and responsible s/he will be a good person to advise you as to whether your girl is grown enough.


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## marlynaveve (Aug 13, 2008)

I was told, or read somewhere that its not wise to let a queen call constantly as it can lead to ovarian cysts. IMO, all being otherwise well, if she is around 9 months its best for the health of the queen to mate her.
I know we think this is very young but if she is constantly calling then nature is predicting she is old enough. 
Mary
x


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Now lets not get all excited - im not doing it for definate yet.
> But it will either be with a chocolate or seal stud


:hand: naughty me.... who is he?


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## Xiaoli (Aug 10, 2008)

I had a girl who called when she hit 5 months and then didn't stop and she wasn't one of the more precocious breeds either! she had 7 calls by the time she went to stud, nothing would put her off calling at all. That is until she went to stud and was there for 8 weeks! She pinked up there too, as no matings were seen!

I would hate to be in your situation at the mo as I wouldn't want to have to find homes for kittens what the current financial climate! I'm holding off with my girl until there is light at the end of the tunnel.


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