# Illegals



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

The 35 survivors out of the Tilbury container are claiming asylum...well surprise surprise! The next bunch must be already saving up to pay the smuggling gangs for their trip.
Surely no matter the circumstances this should be refused.It's like giving in to terrorism.Giving in to illegals is just encouraging more.
They didn't know the horrors in store for them...but they knew perfectly well they were breaking our laws when they handed their money over to the people smugglers.Giving way to this lot is totally unfair on those that apply properly and are turned away.


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

I agree. it's sad what they went through but they are illegal and should treated as any other and detained.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

poohdog said:


> The 35 survivors out of the Tilbury container are claiming asylum...well surprise surprise! The next bunch must be already saving up to pay the smuggling gangs for their trip.
> Surely no matter the circumstances this should be refused.It's like giving in to terrorism.Giving in to illegals is just encouraging more.
> They didn't know the horrors in store for them...but they knew perfectly well they were breaking our laws when they handed their money over to the people smugglers.Giving way to this lot is totally unfair on those that apply properly and are turned away.


Yes, perhaps we should have sent all the jews back when they came over before, during and after the war too?

Surely it is not too late to send all these people back?

I wonder if people really sit down and consider how terrible their lives are that they knowingly take the sort of risks they do just to escape persecution?

Of course if you were desperate to save the lives of your family, you would never knowingly break the law either?


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I think it should be discouraged due to the dangers. Then I thank God that I only worked in a country where there was true poverty and children died from diseases that are preventable. I am thankful that I don't live in a country where children under 6 will have experienced war 3 times or where people are tortured. I'm forever grateful that I live in a country where I'll never have to make a decision to risk my life to get in a storage container.


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

32 ambulances for 32 people. Three weeks ago at 10 am I started with an excruciating pain in my abdomen. Hubby phoned doctor, I was questioned by receptionist then a nurse then a doctor. After 4-1/2 hours I still hadn't seen a medical professional. Hubby can't drive at the mo as he is awaiting an operation on his eyes. He phoned a friend who came over and said to ring an ambulance. After the same round of questions I was told I wasn't an emergency. My friend took me to hospital A&E where after another 2-1/2 hours I was given morphine. I remained in hospital for 5 days and treatment is ongoing. During the night a lady was admitted. She also cried with an excruciating pain, uttering the same expletives as I had. They couldn't give her anything as there was no doctor available, they eventually gave her gas and air. I'm not asking for preferential treatment. I am 70 years old, worked since the age of 15 and continue to work full time. I did a full time job and ran my own business for 10 years paying TWO lots of national insurance. It seems that all the fundamental qualities I was brought up with don't matter any more.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I feel desperately for people willing to take such risks but just how many desperate people can this tiny country really cope with?

Desperate people coming from any other country have already reached safety when they get to the continent, don't then understand why they have to take even more risks to cross the channel to get here.


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## Britt (May 18, 2014)

They all want to go to England for some reason. We too have lots of illegals and the government give them money which is outrageous if you ask me. I'm. to a racist but we should help our people first.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

I despise these types of threads. 

Anti humanitarian.

The world grows more selfish and hateful by the day.:sad:


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

If your friends and family were being rounded up and slaughtered I wonder what desperate measures you would take to keep your children safe?

I dont think they understand the risks they take on these trips - I dont think they consider that dying en route is even a possibility. They are just fleeing genocide in the only way they have available to them. If they are told (probably by those moving them and taking their money..) that they will get accomodation and food in england, then they will come (even if it is not true...I see alot of homeless people walking through London who arent english, and we have a lot of illegals that use our local halfway house).


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

foxiesummer said:


> It seems that all the fundamental qualities I was brought up with don't matter any more.


Really?

You were not brought up to be kind? To be generous to those who are less well off than you? To give alms to the poor? Or to treat others as you yourself would wish to be treated?

I am surprised.

I was.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Muze said:


> I agree. it's sad what they went through but they are illegal and should treated as any other and detained.


all that does is makes camps that turn into ghettoes.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

We moved from England to Scotland 10 years ago, it was a huge shock to be racially discriminated against in our own country. Puts a whole new slant on prejudice and you see it from the other side.

These "illegals" are still people and many have children too but the country can't just allow unrestricted migration here cos in time we wouldn't be able to cope.

It doesn't help when there are economic migrants coming just to get money to send back to their families and some cruddy TV company makes a documentary about it. Doesn't help either when newspapers publish articles of families on benefits in million pound houses seen sneering at our system.

If my family were suffering I would do whatever I could however I could to escape.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Jobeth said:


> I think it should be discouraged due to the dangers. Then I thank God that I only worked in a country where there was true poverty and children died from diseases that are preventable. I am thankful that I don't live in a country where children under 6 will have experienced war 3 times or where people are tortured. I'm forever grateful that I live in a country where I'll never have to make a decision to risk my life to get in a storage container.


There seems to be more danger for people trying to get into other countries by boat. I think we only see the tip of the iceberg of the ones that capsize and drown.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

'This lot' is a group of Afghan Sikhs. Thirteen of them are children.

www.afghanvoice.org.uk

How about taking some time to learn about their plight and the various reasons why they have turned to such extreme measures to escape the country they call home.

Afghanistan's Sikhs face an uncertain future


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

bearcub said:


> How about taking some time to learn about their plight and the various reasons why they have turned to such extreme measures to escape the country they call home.


Did you not know that, for some, it is far simpler to convey their own contempt and incite further ill feeling against these people than it is to conduct a little research into the unfortunate circumstances they have been subjected to and find themselves in.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Zaros said:


> Did you not know that, for some, it is far simpler to convey their own contempt and incite further ill feeling against these people than it is to conduct a little research into the unfortunate circumstances they have been subjected to and find themselves in.


You are so right.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> I feel desperately for people willing to take such risks but just how many desperate people can this tiny country really cope with?
> 
> Desperate people coming from any other country have already reached safety when they get to the continent, don't then understand why they have to take even more risks to cross the channel to get here.


I feel the same but why do they so desparately want to come to Britain, what is it about here they can't get in all the countries they must have passed through - other than generally not very nice weather


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

foxiesummer said:


> 32 ambulances for 32 people. Three weeks ago at 10 am I started with an excruciating pain in my abdomen. Hubby phoned doctor, I was questioned by receptionist then a nurse then a doctor. After 4-1/2 hours I still hadn't seen a medical professional. Hubby can't drive at the mo as he is awaiting an operation on his eyes. He phoned a friend who came over and said to ring an ambulance. After the same round of questions I was told I wasn't an emergency. My friend took me to hospital A&E where after another 2-1/2 hours I was given morphine. I remained in hospital for 5 days and treatment is ongoing. During the night a lady was admitted. She also cried with an excruciating pain, uttering the same expletives as I had. They couldn't give her anything as there was no doctor available, they eventually gave her gas and air. I'm not asking for preferential treatment. I am 70 years old, worked since the age of 15 and continue to work full time. I did a full time job and ran my own business for 10 years paying TWO lots of national insurance. It seems that all the fundamental qualities I was brought up with don't matter any more.


This is the kind of argument that is so often put forward and, as an ex-nurse, I genuinely feel for you. However, these are two separate issues. Of course the 'treatment' you experienced is appalling, but that is due to governmental decisions about budget distribution. It is too simplistic to talk of 'health tourists' and the like. The point about the NHS being held together by 'foreigners' might be old news, but it's still true. Funny how we are happy to welcome people who are useful to us isn't it?


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

foxiesummer said:


> 32 ambulances for 32 people. Three weeks ago at 10 am I started with an excruciating pain in my abdomen. Hubby phoned doctor, I was questioned by receptionist then a nurse then a doctor. After 4-1/2 hours I still hadn't seen a medical professional. Hubby can't drive at the mo as he is awaiting an operation on his eyes. He phoned a friend who came over and said to ring an ambulance. After the same round of questions I was told I wasn't an emergency. My friend took me to hospital A&E where after another 2-1/2 hours I was given morphine. I remained in hospital for 5 days and treatment is ongoing. During the night a lady was admitted. She also cried with an excruciating pain, uttering the same expletives as I had. They couldn't give her anything as there was no doctor available, they eventually gave her gas and air. I'm not asking for preferential treatment. I am 70 years old, worked since the age of 15 and continue to work full time. I did a full time job and ran my own business for 10 years paying TWO lots of national insurance. It seems that all the fundamental qualities I was brought up with don't matter any more.


Why would you not just call an ambulance immediately?
I can not imagine the conditions these people are running from knowing they may well die on the trip here, but that is preferable to staying......


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> I feel the same but why do they so desparately want to come to Britain, what is it about here they can't get in all the countries they must have passed through - other than generally not very nice weather


To be honest, I feel quite proud in a perverse way, that people still have the perception that Britain is so *Great* it's THE place they seek refuge in. For the vast majority of asylum seekers, they really should have been granted asylum in the first safe country they reach, obviously this was by shipping container, so perfectly feasible this is the first country they set foot on, but for the vast majority who arrive by road/rail/plane, it's unlikely they haven't already passed through a country they could have sought asylum in.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I do feel sorry for people who are coming here after suffering genuine hardships and only wanting to make a better life....unfortunately they seem to be swallowed up by the large amount who seem to beleive that the streets of the UK are paved with benefits and they can get a free ride.
We cant keep letting _everybody_ in because the people who are working cant afford to pay for them all (regardless of how many of us nasty, jingoistic people really dont want to be paying for total strangers to have a better quality of life then we have!).
This countries immigration and benefits policies have become so badly screwed up that its now become some sort of promised land. And yet more working tax payers are living below the poverty line trying to meet their bills, obviously they cant pay out more to support tons more people.

I dont think anybody on this thread has been anti anything TBH. Its just simple mathmatics...you cant keep introducing more and more people who takes funds out of something without having a way of collecting more funds.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> *I do feel sorry for people who are coming here after suffering genuine hardships and only wanting to make a better life....unfortunately they seem to be swallowed up by the large amount who seem to beleive that the streets of the UK are paved with benefits and they can get a free ride.*We cant keep letting _everybody_ in because the people who are working cant afford to pay for them all (regardless of how many of us nasty, jingoistic people really dont want to be paying for total strangers to have a better quality of life then we have!).
> This countries immigration and benefits policies have become so badly screwed up that its now become some sort of promised land. And yet more working tax payers are living below the poverty line trying to meet their bills, obviously they cant pay out more to support tons more people.
> 
> I dont think anybody on this thread has been anti anything TBH. Its just simple mathmatics...you cant keep introducing more and more people who takes funds out of something without having a way of collecting more funds.


Seems to me, that the people with this attitude are more likely born here than those here illegally...


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

catz4m8z said:


> I do feel sorry for people who are coming here after suffering genuine hardships and only wanting to make a better life....unfortunately they seem to be swallowed up by the large amount who seem to beleive that the streets of the UK are paved with benefits and they can get a free ride.
> We cant keep letting _everybody_ in because the people who are working cant afford to pay for them all (regardless of how many of us nasty, jingoistic people really dont want to be paying for total strangers to have a better quality of life then we have!).
> This countries immigration and benefits policies have become so badly screwed up that its now become some sort of promised land. And yet more working tax payers are living below the poverty line trying to meet their bills, obviously they cant pay out more to support tons more people.
> 
> I dont think anybody on this thread has been anti anything TBH. Its just simple mathmatics...you cant keep introducing more and more people who takes funds out of something without having a way of collecting more funds.


And this is the nub of it, because everything you say is true......... and yet......... how can we simply turn off compassion?


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> I feel the same but why do they so desparately want to come to Britain, what is it about here they can't get in all the countries they must have passed through - other than generally not very nice weather


This is a genuinely interesting piece that goes some way to answering that question.

Determinants of Migration to the UK | The Migration Observatory


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> Yes, perhaps we should have sent all the jews back when they came over before, during and after the war too?
> 
> Surely it is not too late to send all these people back?
> 
> ...


I believe this country has a very proud record when it comes to GENUINE asylum seekers (like the Jews you mention...and others). They used to be called refugees though.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> I feel desperately for people willing to take such risks but just how many desperate people can this tiny country really cope with?
> 
> Desperate people coming from any other country have already reached safety when they get to the continent, don't then understand why they have to take even more risks to cross the channel to get here.


True...why did they not stay in safe old Belgium? Genuine asylum seekers would surely stay in the nearest safe haven?


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Why do they risk their lives by trying to get here after travelling through other safe countries, why dothe people in France risk their lives crawing under lorries when they are in a safe country ?

Because our silly goverment give them every thing free, they then send money back home to their families here

Genuine refuggees are one thing, scroungers should be sent back and there are a lot of them


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

The films etc we see on TV showing how desperate people are in their home countries is heartbreaking...and who would ever see people starve to death and children suffer like they do? But, unfortunately I have seen these types of programmes since I was a small child, disasters, famines, floods....Blue Peter appeals to convert landrovers into ambulances to be stolen as soon as they get off the boat and turned into mobile gun ships.

So much corruption.....charities providing stand pipes so poor people can drink clean water...for the local war lord to put armed men on the stand pipes and selling to villagers.....no wonder they want out.

Someone on FB posted a clip on rush hour traffic in Eritrea.....so many cars speeding and weaving to get to work. I was shocked, Eritrea to me is Bob Geldof and Band Aid and poor people with nothing, starving and dying of thirst....not commuters in petrol guzzling cars on tar mac roads going to work.

The poor are always going to suffer as long as some people have the power and are so corrupt.

and then one of our politicians will always say, "Something needs to be done, lessons need to be learned......" and it continues.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Calvine said:


> True...why did they not stay in safe old Belgium? Genuine asylum seekers would surely stay in the nearest safe haven?


yes, I agree....cos they do get benefits etc in other EU countries


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

A brief insight to why this type of thread angers me;

I have always viewed the term 'immigrant' as a dirty word.

Applying the term 'illegal' is dehumanising.

Illegal Alien is a more pejorative form of illegal immigrant.

The term 'Alien' is often applied to a non naturalised person from another country of origin but in its dictionary context refers to something disturbing or distasteful.

Murderers, child molesters, and rapists are all people who I personally find disturbing and their activities equally distasteful. 
Yet we still provide these people with a roof over their heads, sustenance, and a quality of life with an assured protection from a wider society who might otherwise see harm come to them.

Why should those who have committed grave offences against us be given a right to a protected life whilst others who have not trespassed against us be shunned and returned to a life of misery, persecution and possible death.

It makes no sense to me.:confused1:


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

It all boils down to money and who is going to pay.

Criminals, murderers and child abusers more often were born here and have British citizenship...what should happen to them? deportation to where?

One way or another, for either criminals or refugees, tax payer is paying.

we generally have no or not much say in where our tax money ends up. 

I personally do not know of any asylum seekers or refugees or migrants or aliens or whatever anybody wants to describe these people so wouldn't know what happens to them or where they end up.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Calvine said:


> I believe this country has a very proud record when it comes to GENUINE asylum seekers (like the Jews you mention...and others).


I don't think so at all and Jews weren't wanted here or anywhere else before the 2nd world war.........and, the migrants we are seeing in containers, on boats, in Calais causing fights etc are not white and I think that makes a huge difference too.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

We have plenty of home bred scroungers, who are proud to live off the benefit system. The problem isn't the people, it's the system that allows people to benefit from doing nothing but sit on their @rse all day and claim money because they are *incapable* of earning a living. Personally, I'd prefer to see local councils *employ* people who aren't in a job, to clean streets, paint over graffiti etc


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> We have plenty of home bred scroungers, who are proud to live off the benefit system. The problem isn't the people, it's the system that allows people to benefit from doing nothing but sit on their @rse all day and claim money because they are *incapable* of earning a living. Personally, I'd prefer to see local councils *employ* people who aren't in a job, to clean streets, paint over graffiti etc


yes, give the migrants such work, its a good honest way of keeping yourself and your family....and then in the next breath, they are stealing our jobs.

I am not sure if migrants here are allowed to work for a time period? or if asylum seekers can work? Not too sure about them claiming benefits either. some people would have you believe all you read in daily Mail etc that people escape to this country and find million pound homes to rent on housing benefits.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> We have plenty of home bred scroungers, who are proud to live off the benefit system. The problem isn't the people, it's the system that allows people to benefit from doing nothing but sit on their @rse all day and claim money because they are *incapable* of earning a living. Personally, I'd prefer to see local councils *employ* people who aren't in a job, to clean streets, paint over graffiti etc


force "scroungers" off benefits and make them work...and watch mr and mrs average tell everybody they are being inhuman doing this and they will produce a genuine case where it is unfair and they slipped through the system


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> I don't think so at all and Jews weren't wanted here or anywhere else before the 2nd world war.........and, the migrants we are seeing in containers, on boats, in Calais causing fights etc are not white and I think that makes a huge difference too.


'Wanted' or not, we took many in here when they needed help.


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## LOLcats (Jun 21, 2014)

It saddens me when I read such contempt and disregard for human life 

For anyone sitting, sipping their tea bemoaning, just take _one_ moment and try to imagine living in constant fear, surrounded by death and torture. Now imagine seeing that fear reflected in the eyes of your family, knowing they spend each day with happiness and peace eluding them and knowing that this is not going to change anytime soon.

And if your dog or pet is your world, imagine them cowering in fear and confusion at the constant violence surrounding them.

How anyone can judge people trying to escape hell on earth and worse still shut their doors on them is beyond my comprehension :frown2:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

lilythepink said:


> yes, give the migrants such work, its a good honest way of keeping yourself and your family....and then in the next breath, they are stealing our jobs.
> 
> I am not sure if migrants here are allowed to work for a time period? or if asylum seekers can work? Not too sure about them claiming benefits either. some people would have you believe all you read in daily Mail etc that people escape to this country and find million pound homes to rent on housing benefits.





lilythepink said:


> force "scroungers" off benefits and make them work...and watch mr and mrs average tell everybody they are being inhuman doing this and they will produce a genuine case where it is unfair and they slipped through the system


I was more thinking the people who were born here to begin with, who can't find a job or any meaningful employment, and those who are too proud to do any sort of public service. Get them out cleaning streets etc to earn their benefits. Was disgusted at bark in the park last Saturday, to see a little girl simply chucking her sweetie wrappers on the floor, parents didn't say anything to her. We get all high and mighty about people taking advantage of the systems in this country, where's our pride in our country itself?


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

If it was my family then Yes!I would do what I could to get them away from the persecution be it in a container or something else,but this is big business for those that arrange it and it is not done because they want to help such people they could'nt give a to$$ if they arrive dead or alive.Maybe those at the EU could work for there money for a change so that every person does'nt think that the UK is the only place to flee to.We are a small dot on the map and I feel we do our share even maybe more than our share.


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## ladydog (Feb 24, 2013)

Zaros said:


> I despise these types of threads.
> 
> Anti humanitarian.
> 
> The world grows more selfish and hateful by the day.:sad:


I can't stand them either.


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## ladydog (Feb 24, 2013)

catz4m8z said:


> I do feel sorry for people who are coming here after suffering genuine hardships and only wanting to make a better life....unfortunately they seem to be swallowed up by the large amount who seem to beleive that the streets of the UK are paved with benefits and they can get a free ride.
> We cant keep letting _everybody_ in because the people who are working cant afford to pay for them all (regardless of how many of us nasty, jingoistic people really dont want to be paying for total strangers to have a better quality of life then we have!).
> This countries immigration and benefits policies have become so badly screwed up that its now become some sort of promised land. And yet more working tax payers are living below the poverty line trying to meet their bills, obviously they cant pay out more to support tons more people.
> 
> I dont think anybody on this thread has been anti anything TBH. Its just simple mathmatics...you cant keep introducing more and more people who takes funds out of something without having a way of collecting more funds.


What about stopping taxing the poor to fund the lifestyle of the rich? The tax system is weighed towards the rich here. The top 1000 people have double amount of personal wealth since the start of the recession. The sale of the top luxury cars are at a all time high.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

LOLcats said:


> It saddens me when I read such contempt and disregard for human life
> 
> For anyone sitting, sipping their tea bemoaning, just take _one_ moment and try to imagine living in constant fear, surrounded by death and torture. Now imagine seeing that fear reflected in the eyes of your family, knowing they spend each day with happiness and peace eluding them and knowing that this is not going to change anytime soon.
> 
> ...


It is sad and perhaps we should take them all in and support them. Then when poverty and crime becomes rife on _our_ streets and we are all rioting coz nobody can feed themselves or find work we can all move over to another country! Simples!!
I quite like the look of Canada...think they would take me?:lol:


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

I have been increasingly concerned about the growth in modern slavery in this country over the last few years also. 
These poor people, risking everything to leave a life of hell to come to one of fear and poverty whilst working 80 hour weeks in the car washes, and worse for the women


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

In an ideal world, everyone would look after everyone else and it would be a big happy place!

But it is not!! Some folks have much more, some folks have much less. And some folks work very hard to have a comfortable existence with the occasional luxury.

If the UK's infrastructure was sufficiently looked after, and we had the resources to accomodate every non-UK person who came along, then I would say fine, let them come!

But it's not!!! The UK infrastructure is falling apart and there is no money in the pot to even shore it up, never mind actually fix or improve it! Hospitals are closing and causing overcrowding in those that remain. Doctors surgeries are closing, causing longer waits & pressure on those that remain. On the news this morning it was announced that there are insufficient funds for the new school meals programme so the short-fall is being taken from the schools repair fund instead. So our kids & teachers are working in schools that are falling apart and can't be repaired.

Our roads are so bad it is the pot holes that are holding them together! Our beautiful countryside is being swallowed up to create more & more housing. Soon it will feel like we're living in New York! All concrete & high-rise with our kitchen windows looking into our neighbours bathrooms!

The UK is an island and eventually the density of the population is going to be more than can possibly be sustained.

Furthermore, we are - in land mass - a small country. We should be able to put a % limit on how many new residents can come in each year.

There are many countries in the world with much more space to offer to those less fortunate so why is the UK always the first port of call?

And why does the UK feel they have to let in everyone who knocks on the door?

I WANT people to feel safe, I WANT children to be removed from war zones, I do not begrudge parents wanting a better & safer life for their families. I just don't want it to always be the UK who is picking up the pieces. 


.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

babycham2002 said:


> and worse for the women


[youtube_browser]0q1Pb55B4ac[/youtube_browser]


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I don't think we should be encouraging these people, they've broken the law but its okay we will let them stay anyway....doesn't say much for our society. 

Do it the right way, be rewarded. Do it the wrong way, get deported.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Jesthar said:


> [youtube_browser]0q1Pb55B4ac[/youtube_browser]


 Thank you for that. I had heard of it but never seen it. 
In Amsterdam, where the sex trade slaves trade legally.

I remember in my teens and groups of boy mates going to Amsterdam. I said it's up to you what you do but remember many of them women are not there through freedom of choice.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

suewhite said:


> If it was my family then Yes!I would do* what I could to get them away from the persecution be it in a container or something else,but this is big business for those that arrange it and it is not done because they want to help such people they could'nt give a to$$ if they arrive dead or alive*.Maybe those at the EU could work for there money for a change so that every person does'nt think that the UK is the only place to flee to.We are a small dot on the map and I feel we do our share even maybe more than our share.


And this is the absolute crux of the matter.

People who see desperate people as a commodity to be bought and sold like cattle and, as you say Sue, if they die on the way to their promised destination, who really cares.

They're just 'illegals'

The main man doesn't care which way up the boat floats, he's got his money and a long queue of other equally desperate people hammering on his door and begging for his help.

World governments should do more to address the real cause to the problem and not the symptoms.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

shetlandlover said:


> I don't think we should be encouraging these people, they've broken the law but its okay we will let them stay anyway....doesn't say much for our society.
> 
> Do it the right way, be rewarded. Do it the wrong way, get deported.


do it the right way and get refused...do it the wrong way and take a chance?


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> I don't think we should be encouraging these people, they've broken the law but its okay we will let them stay anyway....doesn't say much for our society.
> 
> Do it the right way, be rewarded. Do it the wrong way, get deported.


I dont think they think about breaking the law,they are fleeing from a country that has no laws other than violence,no one climbs into a boat or container and leaves everything behind unless they are desperate.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

If they can't come here though the proper channels they should be send home.

We can't keep been a soft touch and let everyone stay how ever they get here we aren't big enough country, we if have enough trouble housing and feeding the people we have here now, we just can't keep taking people in what ever the reason. :nonod:


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

MoggyBaby said:


> In an ideal world, everyone would look after everyone else and it would be a big happy place!
> 
> But it is not!!
> I WANT people to feel safe, I WANT children to be removed from war zones, I do not begrudge parents wanting a better & safer life for their families.
> ...


My sentiments also Moggy.

Sometime ago I read part of a thesis that concerned itself with the transformation of this world into one global village.
America being the self elected global constabulary overseeing everything.

But I personally doubt this ideology will ever come to fruition and see the light of a real day because there are just too many primitive tribes tearing down the fabric of their own societies and the neighbouring ones of others.

This does include governments who exploit their own people for personal gain.

As for America being the one constabulary; I fear the world would be in even more danger than it is today.

The eternal fight for survival continues and just as nature is as cruel as it is beautiful, it's either you or me.:yesnod:


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## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

This thread sickens and sadens me  Typical daily mail logic without looking at the facts and considering it from a compassionate view. 

They are human beings first and foremost. Not "immigrants" or "refugees". Humans.


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## Cruella De Vil (Sep 25, 2013)

Sorry but they should have been sent back the second they were discovered. There's enough people who shouldn't be here already without letting more stay. Britain is a very overcrowded little island, it can't just support all and sundry indeffinitely. Why don't these people go to other countries, 10 times bigger than our island is? Oh yes that's right, no free welfare state and free healthcare. They don't want to come here because they think it's great, or they like it, they want to come here because Britain's pavements are paved with freebies all the way to the benefits office. And for the bleeding heart liberals, will you be willing to move out and go and live in their crappy country so that they can have your house when there's no more room here?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

foxiesummer said:


> 32 ambulances for 32 people. Three weeks ago at 10 am I started with an excruciating pain in my abdomen. Hubby phoned doctor, I was questioned by receptionist then a nurse then a doctor. After 4-1/2 hours I still hadn't seen a medical professional. Hubby can't drive at the mo as he is awaiting an operation on his eyes. He phoned a friend who came over and said to ring an ambulance. After the same round of questions I was told I wasn't an emergency. My friend took me to hospital A&E where after another 2-1/2 hours I was given morphine. I remained in hospital for 5 days and treatment is ongoing. During the night a lady was admitted. She also cried with an excruciating pain, uttering the same expletives as I had. They couldn't give her anything as there was no doctor available, they eventually gave her gas and air. I'm not asking for preferential treatment. I am 70 years old, worked since the age of 15 and continue to work full time. I did a full time job and ran my own business for 10 years paying TWO lots of national insurance. It seems that all the fundamental qualities I was brought up with don't matter any more.


I'm sorry to hear that and hope you are better soon. I think its quite telling that a lot of this thread talks about compassion yet you have been shown very little 

I worry for the future if we allow more and more people to come here when we are so short of space and our infra structure can barely cope as it is. I worry about the future and welfare of the people who struggled to work hard and pay taxes (like the poster above) to set up our welfare state that so many people take for granted and who are being pushed aside to make room for more and more people who have not contributed a penny to our country. We have an overseas aid budget and many charities that get huge donations from the people of this country whenever they make an appeal so I don't think we do a bad job of helping people less well off than ourselves but what do we do about schools, hospitals, housing, food supplies, and most importantly the income to provide all this? Our own elderly are living longer and need care and looking after but who speaks up for them? When you have a limited amount of money in the pot you have to decide how to carve up that pot. Would you have us take down all our borders and just let anyone who wants to come here come? Exceptional cases fine but there has to be a limit.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Sorry but they should have been sent back the second they were discovered. There's enough people who shouldn't be here already without letting more stay. Britain is a very overcrowded little island, it can't just support all and sundry indeffinitely. Why don't these people go to other countries, 10 times bigger than our island is? Oh yes that's right, no free welfare state and free healthcare. They don't want to come here because they think it's great, or they like it, they want to come here because Britain's pavements are paved with freebies all the way to the benefits office. And for the bleeding heart liberals, will you be willing to move out and go and live in their crappy country so that they can have your house when there's no more room here?


So you would have sealed up the container and sent it on its way?I certainly dont agree with people pouring into this country for what they can get,but when people are being so persectuted that they are prepared to be sealed into a container with there children then I think you would have to be pretty heartless to send them back.If the UK had'nt opened its borders we would'nt be so over crowded which is a totally different issue.Maybe I am a bleeding heart liberal so be it.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Sorry but they should have been sent back the second they were discovered. There's enough people who shouldn't be here already without letting more stay. Britain is a very overcrowded little island, it can't just support all and sundry indeffinitely. Why don't these people go to other countries, 10 times bigger than our island is? Oh yes that's right, no free welfare state and free healthcare. They don't want to come here because they think it's great, or they like it, they want to come here because Britain's pavements are paved with freebies all the way to the benefits office. And for the bleeding heart liberals, will you be willing to move out and go and live in their crappy country so that they can have your house when there's no more room here?


I agree with all you say Cruella. This is not being racialist either, far too many are doing this & getting away with it. From all over Europe. We are too small to absorb all who are coming here, it is making it very difficult for our health care, schools etc to cope with so many & that's the ones legally here, there must be hundreds of illegals out in the country too.


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## ladydog (Feb 24, 2013)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Sorry but they should have been sent back the second they were discovered. There's enough people who shouldn't be here already without letting more stay. Britain is a very overcrowded little island, it can't just support all and sundry indeffinitely. Why don't these people go to other countries, 10 times bigger than our island is? Oh yes that's right, no free welfare state and free healthcare. They don't want to come here because they think it's great, or they like it, they want to come here because Britain's pavements are paved with freebies all the way to the benefits office. And for the bleeding heart liberals, will you be willing to move out and go and live in their crappy country so that they can have your house when there's no more room here?


You chose your username well and is it irony?
I am a bleeding liberal heart as you put it because I believe strongly in love your neighbour (although I am no way religious) and treat people the way you want to be treated, that is with compassion and understanding. 
May you never have to face what people are going trough now, at this minute, may they be Palestinians, Yazidi or Christians or how the Chinese would not say "may you never live in interesting times".


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> If they can't come here though the proper channels they should be send home.
> 
> We can't keep been a soft touch and let everyone stay how ever they get here we aren't big enough country, we if have enough trouble housing and feeding the people we have here now, we just can't keep taking people in what ever the reason. :nonod:


sorry, really don't agree with parts of this.

plenty parts of UK are vastly under populated.

more food is wasted every day by supermarkets that could be used to feed people.

plenty houses lie empty.

I don't think its that easy to get in to UK legally any more.


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## Cruella De Vil (Sep 25, 2013)

suewhite said:


> So you would have sealed up the container and sent it on its way?I certainly dont agree with people pouring into this country for what they can get,but when people are being so persectuted that they are prepared to be sealed into a container with there children then I think you would have to be pretty heartless to send them back.If the UK had'nt opened its borders we would'nt be so over crowded which is a totally different issue.Maybe I am a bleeding heart liberal so be it.


Yes I would have. Maybe that makes me heard hearted, but you have to be or you'd be overrun with every charity case going. You look after your own. If there's anything spare after that, then you can be generous, but if not then tough luck. All letting them stay has shown is that Britain is such a soft touch they'll do jack squat about anyone.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ladydog said:


> You chose your username well and is it irony?
> I am a bleeding liberal heart as you put it because I believe strongly in love your neighbour (although I am no way religious) and treat people the way you want to be treated, that is with compassion and understanding.
> May you never have to face what people are going trough now, at this minute, may they be Palestinians, Yazidi or Christians or how the Chinese would not say "may you never live in interesting times".


OK so I pretty much agree with those comments but where do you want these people to live, go to school and get medical treatment? who do you think should pay for food, accommodation and help them with language problems when dealing with benefits/schools/housing/NHS? Do you think its fair for our elderly to be denied access to a GP because they now have too many patients in particular areas or for people who have paid into the NHS for years to keep having treatment delayed or for children to be in larger and larger classes where english can be the minority language.

Its easy to say we should do this or that but how many of us would agree to take in a family, come on be honest would you take in a family, turf one of your children our of their bedroom, make your weekly food stretch to feed another family or is it all down to someone else to organise and pay for?


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

Having a debate on immigration is fine but when your first thought on poor kids from a war torn country found half dead in a shipping container is "send em back", I'm afraid you've moved well over the line from being a reasonable and humane person to a fully paid up bigot.

I know a lot of people don't like Russell Brand but some of the comments on here sound so much like Bill O' Reilly in this analysis I'm going to put it here:

[youtube_browser]f1rcR_MJZDQ[/youtube_browser]

If I started sounding like and elitist, right wing multi-millionaire then I'd be taking a long, hard look at where those values came from....


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Valanita said:


> I agree with all you say Cruella. This is not being racialist either, far too many are doing this & getting away with it. From all over Europe. We are too small to absorb all who are coming here, it is making it very difficult for our health care, schools etc to cope with so many & that's the ones legally here, there must be hundreds of illegals out in the country too.


plenty schools in this part of the country being closed down cos not enough kids available to attend them.

My twin granddaughters school has 35 pupils in it, next school along celebrated this year cos they got 1 child starting in the reception class. Another small school has 16 children in it and could do with more.

It would appear that these people want to get here at all costs but I think every country in EU has a similar problem with migrants. Maybe its not that the grass is greener on this side of the fence at all but more like where they are is hostile.

Some areas in UK are already saturated with migrants.....and then others aren't.

I would very much like to buy a house in Cyprus. I could go to Spain, or France or Portugal.....and pass through these other countries on my journey but I really like the idea of Cyprus.Its a beautiful Island and plenty ex pats already living there....but I really would like to go.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> OK so I pretty much agree with those comments but where do you want these people to live, go to school and get medical treatment? who do you think should pay for food, accommodation and help them with language problems when dealing with benefits/schools/housing/NHS? Do you think its fair for our elderly to be denied access to a GP because they now have too many patients in particular areas or for people who have paid into the NHS for years to keep having treatment delayed or for children to be in larger and larger classes where english can be the minority language.
> 
> Its easy to say we should do this or that but how many of us would agree to take in a family, come on be honest would you take in a family, turf one of your children our of their bedroom, make your weekly food stretch to feed another family or is it all down to someone else to organise and pay for?


Not all elderly people in UK have paid into the system....its a myth. The ones who are now old but scrounged and cheated the system are now amongst the elderly.

If our elderly can't get medical attention cos we have too many people living in UK...we obviously need more doctors. Last week my husband hurt his foot so he rang the doctors and was given an appointment for that morning. If it can work here, it can work elsewhere.People are not denied medical access but in some areas I know they have to wait excessive time for an appointment....that's just down to bad management.

The area I live in has mainly small schools who panic every year that there may not be enough children coming to the school to remain viable.

I am English and moved to northern Aberdeenshire and I struggle with the local dialect....but my granddaughters now aged 9 have picked up the lingo a treat.

Its not a case of taking a family in and kicking your own out of a bedroom etc and I would rather see my hard earned money that goes on taxes spent more wisely than seems to be happening at the minute...but then we have no say on where our tax money goes.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I actually think we are getting over crowded because we allowed people to come here a few years ago to work from other EU countries for much cheaper rates than us,that is where most of the housing and over crowding of schools and health came from.Employers were rubbing there hands at halving there wage bills,I just cant compare what has happened to these people to that.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Our youngmen and women join the forces and are sent to fight injustice in other countries, getting injured and killed

Do the young of those countries join up to fight the injustices in their countries. 
Some may but many come here,claim benifits and all the freebies and leave our troops to do the fighting.

And then some just stab us in the back as thanks.

We are too much of a soft touch and it will bite us back someday


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

suewhite said:


> I actually think we are getting over crowded because we allowed people to come here a few years ago to work from other EU countries for much cheaper rates than us,that is where most of the housing and over crowding of schools and health came from.Employers were rubbing there hands at halving there wage bills,I just cant compare what has happened to these people to that.


we have plenty eastern Europeans here. schools are not overcrowded, plenty houses available to rent or buy and even a few good houses empty.

Doctors are easily available....struggle a bit with dentists and have to travel a bit to get one on NHS, plenty private dentists practices though.

Its true re migrants working for less....and they still do on the farms etc. They work long hard hours for less pay cos it gets taken from them in accommodation fees.

schools on the whole are under attended...which I think is a good thing. There are 7 children in my grand daughters class.

I think it depends where you live.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

lilythepink said:


> we have plenty eastern Europeans here. schools are not overcrowded, plenty houses available to rent or buy and even a few good houses empty.
> 
> Doctors are easily available....struggle a bit with dentists and have to travel a bit to get one on NHS, plenty private dentists practices though.
> 
> ...


I think it depends where you live here in Hertfordshire its more in the biulding trades which does seem to be causing bad feeling here.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> Not all elderly people in UK have paid into the system....its a myth. The ones who are now old but scrounged and cheated the system are now amongst the elderly.
> 
> If our elderly can't get medical attention cos we have too many people living in UK...we obviously need more doctors. Last week my husband hurt his foot so he rang the doctors and was given an appointment for that morning. If it can work here, it can work elsewhere.People are not denied medical access but in some areas I know they have to wait excessive time for an appointment....that's just down to bad management.
> 
> ...


No perhaps not all but the vast majority have paid into the system and were the very ones who set up our welfare state. Very little compassion here for them though 

Of course availability of services will vary around the country and perhaps that is something the goverment need to look into, if there are under used services in your area then you obviously have the capacity to take a lot more migrants/refugees so perhaps that is the way to go forward. The goverment should ask each local authority around the country what spare capacity there is in their area and in that way less strain will be put on the areas where services are already at breaking point. However I wonder how many local authorites would get the backing of their residents if they offered to set up a refugee centre lets say in the middle of green belt countryside or in a pretty little rural village. NIMBY comes to mind.


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## ladydog (Feb 24, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> OK so I pretty much agree with those comments but where do you want these people to live, go to school and get medical treatment? who do you think should pay for food, accommodation and help them with language problems when dealing with benefits/schools/housing/NHS? Do you think its fair for our elderly to be denied access to a GP because they now have too many patients in particular areas or for people who have paid into the NHS for years to keep having treatment delayed or for children to be in larger and larger classes where english can be the minority language.
> 
> Its easy to say we should do this or that but how many of us would agree to take in a family, come on be honest would you take in a family, turf one of your children our of their bedroom, make your weekly food stretch to feed another family or is it all down to someone else to organise and pay for?


The problems you mention in your post are due to the successive governments' policies towards the infrastructure of the country and the appealing tax system which rewards the rich at the detriment of the rest of us.
Wealth doesn't trickling down as Thatcher was fond of saying. 
Regarding your point on larger classes where English can be a minority, I teach in such a school. I am myself an "immigrant" with English as second language. Children learn very fast and these children end up most often than not overtaking their English peers in literacy.
Finally, most of the people who come to the UK are from ex colonies where these countries were plundered for their resources and left to rot when they gained independence (often with a dictator put in place by the departing occupying countries). We reap what we sow even if it is many years later.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

Bisbow said:


> Our youngmen and women join the forces and are sent to fight injustice in other countries, getting injured and killed
> 
> Do the young of those countries join up to fight the injustices in their countries.


What you call "fighting injustices" others may call an "illegal war". Look at the chaos in Iraq now, does anyone really think we've improved the situation there? Many people there are now left fighting for their lives and culture against the 'Islamic state' - surely you know that?

I don't blame the brave men and women in the armed forces for anything those in charge choose to do. If you think we went to 'sort out' the middle east for altruistic reasons though, then you are very, very wrong.


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## ladydog (Feb 24, 2013)

Bisbow said:


> *Our youngmen and women join the forces and are sent to fight injustice in other countries, getting injured and killed*
> Do the young of those countries join up to fight the injustices in their countries.
> Some may but many come here,claim benifits and all the freebies and leave our troops to do the fighting.
> 
> ...


Isn't it why they join in the first place?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> No perhaps not all but the vast majority have paid into the system and were the very ones who set up our welfare state. Very little compassion here for them though
> 
> Of course availability of services will vary around the country and perhaps that is something the goverment need to look into, if there are under used services in your area then you obviously have the capacity to take a lot more migrants/refugees so perhaps that is the way to go forward. The goverment should ask each local authority around the country what spare capacity there is in their area and in that way less strain will be put on the areas where services are already at breaking point. However I wonder how many local authorites would get the backing of their residents if they offered to set up a refugee centre lets say in the middle of green belt countryside or in a pretty little rural village. NIMBY comes to mind.


doesn't need to be a large group in a green belt area though does it?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

lilythepink said:


> we have plenty eastern Europeans here.


I have a great deal of experience working with eastern Europeans. Admiration too.
They proved to be very committed and dedicated workers often choosing occupations that some English people refuse to do.
These are the people who would rather sit at home, complain about the system and society they live in, whilst systematically bleeding a benefit system that deprives those most in need of its assistance.

If anyone wants to say that 'other nationals' take our jobs then in some respects they're absolutely right.
But they only take the jobs no one else is prepared to do.:thumbup:


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## Cruella De Vil (Sep 25, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> No perhaps not all but the vast majority have paid into the system and were the very ones who set up our welfare state. Very little compassion here for them though
> 
> Of course availability of services will vary around the country and perhaps that is something the goverment need to look into, if there are under used services in your area then you obviously have the capacity to take a lot more migrants/refugees so perhaps that is the way to go forward. The goverment should ask each local authority around the country what spare capacity there is in their area and in that way less strain will be put on the areas where services are already at breaking point. However I wonder how many local authorites would get the backing of their residents if they offered to set up a refugee centre lets say in the middle of green belt countryside or in a pretty little rural village. NIMBY comes to mind.


Better idea, send everyone who shouldn't be here, whose here illegally, back where they came from as it's not our job to sure up the entire planet. How long do you suppose other countries would put up with us dumping ourselves on their shores then freeloading all their facilities and benefits for before being told 'eff off back home, these are in place for the residents of our country not the world and his wife'. Not long I'd wager. Only in soft touch Old Blighty.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Just heard on the news they have caught another 20 in a lorry.:scared:


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

suewhite said:


> Just heard on the news they have caught another 20 in a lorry.:scared:


BBC News - Sixteen 'illegal immigrants' found in refrigerated lorry


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Zaros said:


> I have a great deal of experience working with eastern Europeans. Admiration too.
> They proved to be very committed and dedicated workers often choosing occupations that some English people refuse to do.
> These are the people who would rather sit at home, complain about the system and society they live in, whilst systematically bleeding a benefit system that deprives those most in need of its assistance.
> 
> ...


Polish fella lives nearby who works on a carrot farm. sometimes he drives a wagon and sometimes he is in the field. He lives on the farms colony of caravans and pays through the nose for electricity and he shares this with 5 other Polish men. If he is awake, he is working. He is paid £100 a week less than locals who work a 40 hour week plus overtime. He is a fully qualified accountant in Poland.Plenty more like him around here.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Of course we can't turn our backs on those poor people from the container - especially the children.

But we do need to seize some control, and stop all and sundry from other EU countries descending on us.

Our benefit/housing system is far too generous.

What really gets my goat is that a man can come from Rumania, say. He lives and possibly works here, but his family lives back in Rumania; his children will never come to our country - and yet, we pay him child benefit for each and every one of them, for years and years and years.

What a lot of hamster testicles.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Better idea, send everyone who shouldn't be here, whose here illegally, back where they came from as it's not our job to sure up the entire planet. How long do you suppose other countries would put up with us dumping ourselves on their shores then freeloading all their facilities and benefits for before being told 'eff off back home, these are in place for the residents of our country not the world and his wife'. Not long I'd wager. Only in soft touch Old Blighty.


so you can only stay here in UK as long as you are paying into the system and paying your way, not on benefits and supporting yourself?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Summersky said:


> Of course we can't turn our backs on those poor people from the container - especially the children.
> 
> But we do need to seize some control, and stop all and sundry from other EU countries descending on us.
> 
> ...


totally abusing the system totally immoral but not illegal. Needs tightening up, totally agree with you.
maybe if the system was tightened up more people would be a bit more tolerant of people in desperate and genuine need.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

ladydog said:


> Isn't it why they join in the first place?


They did not join to get stabed in the back by those they where trying to help, 
so many of those nationals could havejoined to help, like the Polish did in WW2
but no,they would rathercome and scrounge off us then say they are hard done by


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Summersky said:


> Our benefit/housing system is far too generous..


That will be the same housing/benefit system that forces single English fathers out onto the street because they deem the landlord of the privately rented accommodation charges far more than they, the council, are prepared to pay and cut the housing benefit thus forcing theTennant into spiralling debt because his single man's unemployment benefit cannot possibly support him, two of his three children and the roof over his head.

.....Breathe.....

The landlord does not understand why the rent cannot be paid and is in considerable arrears and seeks legal action to have said Tennant removed.
Little loop hole in the law Re: family income supplement book and the rest is history thrown out onto the street.

The benefit system is actually [email protected]@ked up. It promotes many, many hardships.:yesnod:


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Better idea, send everyone who shouldn't be here, whose here illegally, back where they came from as it's not our job to sure up the entire planet. *How long do you suppose other countries would put up with us dumping ourselves on their shores then freeloading all their facilities and benefits for before being told 'eff off back home,* these are in place for the residents of our country not the world and his wife'. Not long I'd wager. Only in soft touch Old Blighty.


You'll be amazed to know that this did happen on a massive scale....It was known as the 'British empire' - look it up some time  , It's one of the reasons some countries need to 'sure up'.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Yes I would have. Maybe that makes me heard hearted, but you have to be or you'd be overrun with every charity case going. You look after your own. If there's anything spare after that, then you can be generous, but if not then tough luck. All letting them stay has shown is that Britain is such a soft touch they'll do jack squat about anyone.


In other words, "I'm alright Jack, bugger you".

How many of us on this forum spend money and lots of it on collars, leads, food, coats for Winter, snuggly beds and even expensive behaviourists for our dogs? Probably most of us, including those on this thread who think these poor, desperate souls should be shown no compassion.

I adore my dog, as do others here, and give her the best of everything, but it's a sad state of affairs when our animals have more comforts and rights than these people and their children.

How truly afraid must they be to risk the unknown and even death to get out of the Hellhole they find themselves in?


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> Polish fella lives nearby who works on a carrot farm. sometimes he drives a wagon and sometimes he is in the field. He lives on the farms colony of caravans and pays through the nose for electricity and he shares this with 5 other Polish men. If he is awake, he is working. He is paid £100 a week less than locals who work a 40 hour week plus overtime. He is a fully qualified accountant in Poland.Plenty more like him around here.


I don't understand that? My place outsources to Poland, we struggle to find people specifically accountants and the pay is pretty good?


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> totally abusing the system totally immoral but not illegal. Needs tightening up, totally agree with you.
> maybe if the system was tightened up more people would be a bit more tolerant of people in desperate and genuine need.


But I can't blame those people for claiming what our system says they are entitled to. It's more fool our government for allowing it. And unfair on other people who really need more money to get by.



Zaros said:


> That will be the same housing/benefit system that forces single English fathers out onto the street because they deem the landlord of the privately rented accommodation charges far more than they, the council, are prepared to pay and cut the housing benefit thus forcing theTennant into spiralling debt because his single man's unemployment benefit cannot possibly support him, two of his three children and the roof over his head.
> 
> .....Breathe.....
> 
> ...


Yes.

It is indeed that.

The disability benefits system for example - the DLA was hard enough to secure, and many who should have been entitled missed out.

But money still needs to be saved.

So - let's phase out Disability Living allowance, and introduce a new system. We'll call it a Personal Independence Payment. We'll make it much harder to claim successfully - that's OK. These people are more vulnerable, so they won't be able to fight back.

That will save us money.

The money available isn't a limitless pot, but the system needs a total overhaul, so that those who really need support get just that.

And support in an emergency needs to be looked at too.

All credit to the food banks for doing what they do - but it shouldn't need to be like that.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

Bisbow said:


> They did not join to get stabed in the back by those they where trying to help,
> so many of those nationals could havejoined to help, like the Polish did in WW2


What a foolish, ignorant thing to say. So the thousands of native Afghan and Iraqi forces that fought alongside the British and American forces don't count then? -

According to Wikipedia-

- 16,623 Iraqi allied military and police killed since 2003
- 10,483 Afghan police and 6,890 allied Afghan soldiers killed since 2003

I guess the tabloids didn't tell you about them so they obviously didn't exist....


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

ladydog said:


> The problems you mention in your post are due to the successive governments' policies towards the infrastructure of the country and the appealing tax system which rewards the rich at the detriment of the rest of us.
> Wealth doesn't trickling down as Thatcher was fond of saying.
> Regarding your point on larger classes where English can be a minority, I teach in such a school. I am myself an "immigrant" with English as second language. Children learn very fast and these children end up most often than not overtaking their English peers in literacy.
> Finally, most of the people who come to the UK are from ex colonies where these countries were plundered for their resources and left to rot when they gained independence (often with a dictator put in place by the departing occupying countries). We reap what we sow even if it is many years later.


Thats actually what I was getting at - the english peers getting overlooked.

We do need wealthy people and the more the better - who else will be paying the huge taxes needed to fund all the things so many people take for granted.

Of course our own citizens need a kick up the backside to work instead of relying on the welfare state but its going to take a very brave goverment to try and tackle the whole benefits system here. Perhaps the Polish accountant is working here for less money than the locals because he is getting other benefits such as child benefit paid for his children back in Poland and at our rate not the Polish rate. Until we sort out this sort of thing there will be a lack of compassion for the genuine refugees although I still haven't seen anyone offering up space in their home.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

lennythecloud said:


> What a foolish, ignorant thing to say. So the thousands of native Afghan and Iraqi forces that fought alongside the British and American forces don't count then? -
> 
> According to Wikipedia-
> 
> ...


Why do you need to be so rude, its possible to debate the issues and provide the information without resorting to name calling


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

On this though it's estimated that there are 

63m people in the uk
5.3m working age people on benefits
3.7m crimes per year
50,000+ children at risk in the uk
150,000+ animal abuses 
An estimated 10,000 slaves in the uk



And an estimated 618k illegal immigrants

Where do you think efforts are best utilised?

Me personally? Illegal immigrants is the least of the UKs worries


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## ladydog (Feb 24, 2013)

AJ600 said:


> On this though it's estimated that there are
> 
> 63m people in the uk
> 5.3m working age people on benefits
> ...


Thanks for this. In time of economic difficulties, people look for scapegoats and often they are the foreigners who are turned into them. Sad state of affairs.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

AJ600 said:


> On this though it's estimated that there are
> 
> 63m people in the uk
> 5.3m working age people on benefits
> ...


nobody can really know how many illegal immigrants are here though.

and 3.7 million crimes...is that before or after they have been politically manipulated or tweaked? or even a true figure?


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

That's from the gov database sp yes probably. But the 618k is an estimate. Officially it's between 400 & 800

Point is there is limited resources and more important priorities 

There are also legitimate reasons for people being on benefits, for eg. Disability.
But my dad's business is to employ blind people in making furniture. I know other people who have come from ghettos and who've made something of themselves. I taught adult education in ghettos. So I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for people who could work but choose not and then use either their disability, colour, immigrant argument etc. as an excuse. You can't find work through a company?..start your own. You don't have qualifications? Can you sew, garden, then do that.. Most councils provide free adult education.. Yet strangely there's always spaces. 

And if you can't find work that pays find work that does not. The pensioner down the street whose garden needs doing, the rubbish outside that needs picking up?.. Plenty to do. And the reason, doing this empowers you, and when you're empowered it opens doors.

Busy people don't have time to commit crimes. Empowered people don't feel the need to abuse others.

And now I'll get off my soap box.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

AJ600 said:


> That's from the gov database sp yes probably. But the 618k is an estimate. Officially it's between 400 & 800
> 
> Point is there is limited resources and more important priorities
> 
> ...


I think your last paragraph is a little bit of a sweeping statement and not very accurate.

Empowered people don't feel the need to abuse others?

Someone should have told Adolf Hitler and Sadam Hussain that.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

Sweety said:


> I think your last paragraph is a little bit of a sweeping statement and not very accurate.
> 
> Empowered people don't feel the need to abuse others?
> 
> Someone should have told Adolf Hitler and Sadam Hussain that.


Both of which were originally held as poster boys by the west.

Empowered people are not the same as people who have power.
Empowered people are ones who believe in themselves, who strive to better themselves and who realise they can only do that by lifting others.

Not that it matters, that would be my ideal world. And I'm not that naive to think that this would ever happen.


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## Cruella De Vil (Sep 25, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> so you can only stay here in UK as long as you are paying into the system and paying your way, not on benefits and supporting yourself?


Yes...why should you be allowed to claim everything and pay nothing back into the pot in return? Genuine cases from sickness, ill health or medical problems should be exempt of course, but being on benefits because you can't be bothered to get a job, or just being handed everything going on a plate after landing on these shores when you've never contributed so much as a penny should not be allowed point blank, especially if your legally not even meant to be here. Some people see benefits as a way of life. Stop the free handouts to all, Britain will soon loose its appeal.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Yes...why should you be allowed to claim everything and pay nothing back into the pot in return? Genuine cases from sickness, ill health or medical problems should be exempt of course, but being on benefits because you can't be bothered to get a job, or just being handed everything going on a plate after landing on these shores when you've never contributed so much as a penny should not be allowed point blank, especially if your legally not even meant to be here. Some people see benefits as a way of life. Stop the free handouts to all, Britain will soon loose its appeal.


You don't know what has driven these people to such a desperate act.

Who says they're here looking for "free handouts"?

Maybe they're looking for the chance of a decent life, free from the threat of being killed.

You will never know what it is to be in such a terrible dilemma and in fear for the lives of your children, yet you're very quick to judge.

Have you ever heard "There but for the Grace of God Go I"?


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> do it the right way and get refused...do it the wrong way and take a chance?


Judging at the amount of immigrants we have in this country I don't think we are refusing that many to be honest.



suewhite said:


> I dont think they think about breaking the law,they are fleeing from a country that has no laws other than violence,no one climbs into a boat or container and leaves everything behind unless they are desperate.


Yes but some of these people are very dangerous, they could be involved in drugs, crime such as child molestation ect. Just because they decide they'd not like to get checked out by the immigration services doesn't mean they should get a free pass. They might be desperate because they've done something they shouldn't in their own country, some will be innocent and want a chance however if these people aren't being checked then how do we know what's coming in?


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## ThelifeofPi (Mar 18, 2013)

Until our national press stop using words like bogus, illegal, scroungers every time they mention asylum seekers, the prejudice shown towards these people will be rife. Fortunately the Red Cross are now demanding that our press stop irrelevant references to immigration status in such a negative way and that crack downs on inaccurate uses of terms, slung at asylum seekers. 

Most of those that sling mud at asylum seekers (and that is exactly what these people in that container are), have little to no knowledge about these people or indeed the effect they have on the British economy. Their argument is neither rational or informed. All they know is what theyve read in the main stream tabloids or picked up from others. In other words their prejudice is born from limited information. These same people are very quick to deny the dark side of their prejudices. ::mad2:

Im ashamed to say this but evidence shows that negative public attitude towards asylum seekers is greater in the UK than elsewhere in Europe, with veritable hostility coming mainly from middle to lower social groups and those most adamantly apposed are those who live in mainly white areas.

The truth is, these asylum seekers and immigrants are no real threat. Many immigrant have valuable skill sets. Doctors, nurses, teachers and engineers are used to fill gaps in the labour market. Oh but hang on, its not about them is it? This is about the unskilled migrants that get public funding from our education, healthcare and welfare systems. All of this is linked to peoples fear and anger and all this fear and anger is perpetually stirred up by the hungry media who presently have carte blanc to do so.

Immigration has been proven to increases productivity, growth and employment. In fact, British Governments deficit is at least £7 billion a year smaller than it would otherwise be if it were not for immigrants. Historically this is why immigration has been encouraged.


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## Cruella De Vil (Sep 25, 2013)

ThelifeofPi said:


> Until our national press stop using words like bogus, illegal, scroungers every time they mention asylum seekers, the prejudice shown towards these people will be rife. Fortunately the Red Cross are now demanding that our press stop irrelevant references to immigration status in such a negative way and that crack downs on inaccurate uses of terms, slung at asylum seekers.
> 
> Most of those that sling mud at asylum seekers (and that is exactly what these people in that container are), have little to no knowledge about these people or indeed the effect they have on the British economy. Their argument is neither rational or informed. All they know is what theyve read in the main stream tabloids or picked up from others. In other words their prejudice is born from limited information. These same people are very quick to deny the dark side of their prejudices. ::mad2:
> 
> ...


That's no wonder really is it? They don't flock to anyone else's country cos there's nothing for them, so they wouldn't have a problem with them. Us on the other hand, have our services and systems stretched to breaking point, a useless load of cretins in charge who bend over backwards to help everyone but their own, and people who work, pay taxes, do everything by the book and struggle through life paying bills and taxes get absolutely nothing and nowhere, whilst some foreigner lands here having never set foot here before and gets people falling over themselves to give them anything and everything going. Is it really any surprise at all that tempers are flaring, that were fed up to the back teeth of it and have nothing but contempt for them? Why should we be compassionate about people who have no right to be here living better than us, in our own country?!


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

lennythecloud said:


> What a foolish, ignorant thing to say. So the thousands of native Afghan and Iraqi forces that fought alongside the British and American forces don't count then? -
> 
> According to Wikipedia-
> 
> ...


I wonder which of us is the most ignorant, at least I refrain from being rude if I disagree with someones post and there area lot I disagree with.

Of course people killed fighting for their county matter. I was talking about the fit and able that would rather sit back with their hands out.

As for the tabloid dig, what is your favourite one


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## ThelifeofPi (Mar 18, 2013)

Cruella De Vil said:


> That's no wonder really is it? They don't flock to anyone else's country cos there's nothing for them, so they wouldn't have a problem with them. Us on the other hand, have our services and systems stretched to breaking point, a useless load of cretins in charge who bend over backwards to help everyone but their own, and people who work, pay taxes, do everything by the book and struggle through life paying bills and taxes get absolutely nothing and nowhere, whilst some foreigner lands here having never set foot here before and gets people falling over themselves to give them anything and everything going. Is it really any surprise at all that tempers are flaring, that were fed up to the back teeth of it and have nothing but contempt for them? Why should we be compassionate about people who have no right to be here living better than us, in our own country?!


Why don't you try researching immigration to all the other countries in Europe, America and Australia. I think you may find you are eating your very inaccurate words but I doubt you will bother because your happy living in your own ignorance. You just proved my words.... many people are blindly ignorant to the facts.


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2014)

Ukip MEP Janice Atkinson Calls Thai Woman A "Ting Tong From Somewhere" On The BBC

Its no wonder this lot are getting so popular with some of the attitudes you see about the place...


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Thats actually what I was getting at - the english peers getting overlooked.
> 
> We do need wealthy people and the more the better - who else will be paying the huge taxes needed to fund all the things so many people take for granted.
> 
> Of course our own citizens need a kick up the backside to work instead of relying on the welfare state but its going to take a very brave goverment to try and tackle the whole benefits system here. Perhaps the Polish accountant is working here for less money than the locals because he is getting other benefits such as child benefit paid for his children back in Poland and at our rate not the Polish rate. Until we sort out this sort of thing there will be a lack of compassion for the genuine refugees although I still haven't seen anyone offering up space in their home.


he hasn't got any children as far as I know. He was engaged, don't know if he still is now though cos its been a while since we saw him.

He doesn't choose to work for less money than the locals.....and if a local wanted his job, he would lose his.

Accommodation comes with the job. Its a few grotty caravans with an outhouse that has a washing machine in it in a field miles from the nearest town.He was sharing the caravan with 5 others and they were all paying for the use of this caravan.The rent on the van was £100 a week each and an electric meter and gas bottles off the farmer.

The way it works, the Polish lads worked every hour but only got paid the same as the others who worked a basic 40hour week...excuse being well they are on site and nothing better to do. Wages and conditions are poor for here but much better than in Poland.

I wouldn't know if he is on any other benefits either...not something you really ask about, is it?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Thats actually what I was getting at - the english peers getting overlooked.
> 
> We do need wealthy people and the more the better - who else will be paying the huge taxes needed to fund all the things so many people take for granted.
> 
> Of course our own citizens need a kick up the backside to work instead of relying on the welfare state but its going to take a very brave goverment to try and tackle the whole benefits system here. Perhaps the Polish accountant is working here for less money than the locals because he is getting other benefits such as child benefit paid for his children back in Poland and at our rate not the Polish rate. Until we sort out this sort of thing there will be a lack of compassion for the genuine refugees although I still haven't seen anyone offering up space in their home.


you are right, it is odd that you don't see people offering to take families into their homes....and yet there are plenty willing to take in all sorts of unwanted pets from all over Europe.

why would you think these people would want to live with someone else anyway?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Yes...why should you be allowed to claim everything and pay nothing back into the pot in return? Genuine cases from sickness, ill health or medical problems should be exempt of course, but being on benefits because you can't be bothered to get a job, or just being handed everything going on a plate after landing on these shores when you've never contributed so much as a penny should not be allowed point blank, especially if your legally not even meant to be here. Some people see benefits as a way of life. Stop the free handouts to all, Britain will soon loose its appeal.


so what do we do then? watch people die cos they shouldn't be here? and children too?

what do we then do with all the benefit cheats? Deport them? nothing is going to happen to people like that...thankfully the majority of people want to work and want to pay their own way.


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## stargren (Jul 24, 2014)

it make me sick how fluffed up this country is and its going to continue to get worse basically our government is doing each and every one of us rite in the bum holey !


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> he hasn't got any children as far as I know. He was engaged, don't know if he still is now though cos its been a while since we saw him.
> 
> He doesn't choose to work for less money than the locals.....and if a local wanted his job, he would lose his.
> 
> ...


Like I said before we found a shortage of staff in Poland so there's prob more to the story.

In terms of the comments from cruella.

Before making some of those statements, it would be best if you did some more research. You would be surprised at what you find out.

The dm and the sun is probably not the best sources of info.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I do find it amusing (not sure if that is the right word, but I'll run with it) when debates like this come up.
Without doubt people jump up and down moaning about illegal immigrants stealing all our benefits because the tabloids ran a few stories claiming that due to a loop hole people were not being asked to prove their right to work in the UK for some benefits...

I wonder how many people have sat back and had a thought for a minute.
These people are on the run, they arrived in a country through illegal channels...Their primary concern is to slip under the net and to avoid detection from the authorities.

Do you really think, I mean really, that the nmajority of these people would then hop down to a government run building to sign paperwork (leaving a paper trail) just to get the few measly pounds you can get on these benefits?

I would also like to point out to some that may be unaware, but those saying that because we don't do it to their countries we shouldn't allow it here...

Well, expat villages anyone?
You know, those english communities in Spain, Bulgaria, France etc....etc....

The British have been making their mark on the world over for decades


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> Well, expat villages anyone?
> You know, those english communities in Spain, Bulgaria, France etc....etc...


But they mostly come home to make use of the NHS etc...


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> *some of these people are very dangerous*, they could be involved in drugs, crime such as child molestation ect. Just because they decide they'd not like to get checked out by the immigration services doesn't mean they should get a free pass. They might be desperate because they've done something they shouldn't in their own country, some will be innocent and want a chance however if these people aren't being checked then how do we know what's coming in?


Who told you some of these people are very dangerous?:confused1:

Your neighbour?

How do you know your neighbour isn't dangerous?
How do you know he hasn't got a store of dismembered bodies hidden beneath his floor boards?
How do you know he isn't spying on your every movement from the crawl space in the attic?

Whoever told you appears to be fairly well acquainted with a malicious little tool known as propaganda.
Propaganda has been at work for centuries and today it's still proving to be the single most potent instrument for efficiently stirring up unrest and fear in ignorant people.:lol:


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Speaking of propaganda....

" The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretence was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp."

It really has a very powerful effect.


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2014)

Jonescat said:


> Speaking of propaganda....
> 
> " The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretence was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp."
> 
> It really has a very powerful effect.


Are we back to Cliff Richard again?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Jonescat said:


> Speaking of propaganda....
> 
> " The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretence was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp."
> 
> It really has a very powerful effect.


 Excellent book. :thumbup:

Very disturbing but excellent nonetheless.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

And that. I suppose the other point is that while you are hating the object offered to you, you aren't shaking the democratic tree. voting, being active and generally changing the world.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Well, we all know that TB is on the rise because of the entry of unvaccinated immigrants. TB is one thing, but let us hope that the new influx will be tested for Ebola...after all, it will not cost them anything to be tested and may just prevent an outbreak of EBOLA here which our overloaded NHS will be unable to cope with.


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2014)

Calvine said:


> Well, we all know that TB is on the rise because of the entry of unvaccinated immigrants


Cull 'em alongside badgers?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Everyone is entitled to an opinion or a view on any subject, but it seems to me that some people are either just ignorant or go out of their way to be deliberately plain odious.


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## stargren (Jul 24, 2014)

whats the point in stressing your self's out for as i said England has been fawked for a long time coming, that all boils down to the plonker's in charge. BRITISH PEOPLE DON'T COME FIRST, FACT!


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Calvine said:


> Well, we all know that TB is on the rise because of the entry of unvaccinated immigrants. TB is one thing, but let us hope that the new influx will be tested for Ebola...after all, it will not cost them anything to be tested and may just prevent an outbreak of EBOLA here which our overloaded NHS will be unable to cope with.


would it not be safer then to vaccinate the people already in the UK against TB?

and, re Ebola.....I heard there was no cure and the vaccines that have been used are only being tested so far......did I get that right?

and....how can we test illegal migrants if we don't know how many and where they are?


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## LOLcats (Jun 21, 2014)

This thread is like reading the comments section on the daily fail website. 

There is a reason I would not wipe my arse with that paper, it's spouts the same vitriol being parroted on here. 

:frown5:


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> you are right, it is odd that you don't see people offering to take families into their homes....and yet there are plenty willing to take in all sorts of unwanted pets from all over Europe.
> 
> why would you think these people would want to live with someone else anyway?


Yep and I'm one of them but then I don't expect anyone else to contribute one penny towards their upkeep, they get the best of everything fully funded by us and do not use public services funded by the tax payer.

I don't particularly think refugees would 'want' to live with someone else but would imagine it would be far better than living in a camp but it appears no one is offering so mute point really.

I do love the way anyone who doesn't agree with free immigration must be lacking in compassion, lacking in brain power, ignorant, reads inferior newspapers etc etc. Oh hold on, 15 years in the NHS, 5 years in inner city social services and many years voluntary work, must be a very selfish and uncaring person.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yep and I'm one of them but then I don't expect anyone else to contribute one penny towards their upkeep, they get the best of everything fully funded by us and do not use public services funded by the tax payer.
> 
> I don't particularly think refugees would 'want' to live with someone else but would imagine it would be far better than living in a camp but it appears no one is offering so mute point really.
> 
> I do love the way anyone who doesn't agree with free immigration must be lacking in compassion, lacking in brain power, ignorant, reads inferior newspapers etc etc. Oh hold on, 15 years in the NHS, 5 years in inner city social services and many years voluntary work, must be a very selfish and uncaring person.


plenty people don't agree with free immigration including me and the whole system needs a shake up but when these people do arrive, its inhumane to turn our backs on them.

I find it odd there is no shortage of people wanting to adopt pets from abroad but won't offer the same to a human being.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

Calvine said:


> Well, we all know that TB is on the rise because of the entry of unvaccinated immigrants. TB is one thing, but let us hope that the new influx will be tested for Ebola...after all, it will not cost them anything to be tested and may just prevent an outbreak of EBOLA here which our overloaded NHS will be unable to cope with.


Really? Where do you get this. Did you know immigrants are tested for TB when they come into the UK? Have you maybe thought that the reason viruses are spread more easily is because the world is actually better connected? You better lock yourself in the house, there's wind overnight you may get Ebola as it's carried through the air from Folkestone.

Immigrants are also responsible for the ozone, melting polar caps, animal abuse, children abuse, oh and the reason johnny down the road cannot get a job. No it's not because he can't read or dropped out of school you know. It was because an immigrant took the job.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> plenty people don't agree with free immigration including me and the whole system needs a shake up but when these people do arrive, its inhumane to turn our backs on them.
> 
> I find it odd there is no shortage of people wanting to adopt pets from abroad but won't offer the same to a human being.


Yes I agree with that - I've not been suggesting the people from this container should be sent back just that we have to draw the line and have set numbers we can help.

Regarding pets I would adopt a dog from anywhere but not a human of any nationality, my own family included. I'm more than happy to give money but not space in my home but then I'm a big bad capitalist and not pretending to be anything different.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Yep and I'm one of them but then I don't expect anyone else to contribute one penny towards their upkeep, they get the best of everything fully funded by us and do not use public services funded by the tax payer.
> 
> I don't particularly think refugees would 'want' to live with someone else but would imagine it would be far better than living in a camp but it appears no one is offering so mute point really.
> 
> I do love the way anyone who doesn't agree with free immigration must be lacking in compassion, lacking in brain power, ignorant, reads inferior newspapers etc etc. Oh hold on, 15 years in the NHS, 5 years in inner city social services and many years voluntary work, must be a very selfish and uncaring person.


I would not agree with free immigration either, not after the hoops I had to go through to formally immigrate, but and this is not aimed at you, I do not ever agree with people blaming one group of people for all the problems in the world without taking responsibility for their own lives.

Can I just add wow. I could not have done what you did. I have a friend who was a social worker and for a little while she did not have a car and I drove her around. Scary some of the places.


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## Cruella De Vil (Sep 25, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> plenty people don't agree with free immigration including me and the whole system needs a shake up but when these people do arrive, its inhumane to turn our backs on them.
> 
> *I find it odd there is no shortage of people wanting to adopt pets from abroad but won't offer the same to a human being.*


1. Someone's home is not a doss house for waifs and strays.

2. An adopted pet isn't going to possibly rob, rape or murder you, steal your identity, clean out your bank account, sell information on you to goodness knows who, nick your significant other from you, stab you in the back, get you bitten on the arse in repayment for your kindness, get you in trouble with the law, leave you in debt up to the eyeballs, accuse you of something you didn't do and any other unsavoury human trait that some people would do. Dramatic maybe, but sadly possible, there's a lot of not very nice people out there nowadays. I would seriously consider before inviting any stranger into the house, too many risks.


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2014)

Cruella De Vil said:


> 1. Someone's home is not a doss house for waifs and strays.
> 
> 2. An adopted pet isn't going to possibly rob, rape or murder you, steal your identity, clean out your bank account, sell information on you to goodness knows who, nick your significant other from you, stab you in the back, get you bitten on the arse in repayment for your kindness, get you in trouble with the law, leave you in debt up to the eyeballs, accuse you of something you didn't do and any other unsavoury human trait that some people would do. Dramatic maybe, but sadly possible, there's a lot of not very nice people out there nowadays. I would seriously consider before inviting any stranger into the house, too many risks.


When i find a facepalm smiley that is equal in size to this stupidity, i shall reply again...


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Cruella De Vil said:


> 1. Someone's home is not a doss house for waifs and strays.
> 
> 2. An adopted pet isn't going to possibly rob, rape or murder you, steal your identity, clean out your bank account, sell information on you to goodness knows who, nick your significant other from you, stab you in the back, get you bitten on the arse in repayment for your kindness, get you in trouble with the law, leave you in debt up to the eyeballs, accuse you of something you didn't do and any other unsavoury human trait that some people would do. Dramatic maybe, but sadly possible, there's a lot of not very nice people out there nowadays. I would seriously consider before inviting any stranger into the house, too many risks.


As much as I'd like to respond to the above post in a manner that illustrates and promotes my maturity I feel the endeavour would be a thoroughly futile exercise because of your immaturity.

Therefore I shall quite simply add; I've never read such deliberate juvenile sh1te in all my life.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

When I worked in Africa in my early 20s a New Zealand family took great care of me. Thankfully they didn't see the world in such a negative way. I no longer appreciate such wonders as turning my tap on and being able to drink clean water. I no longer need to have a hospital within walking distance knowing that those injured or sick and too far away will just die. I'll also never have to walk past that same hospital knowing how many don't make it despite the best efforts of the few doctors. It may have made me one of those fluffy people that some seem to despise, but so be it. I'm afraid I will never understand why those who have so much would deny safety and protection to those who have so little.


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

> I'm afraid I will never understand why those who have so much would deny safety and protection to those who have so little.


That says everything that I feel about the matter, so succinctly, that all I can say is a hearty "ME TOO".

I deeply regret saying that all the ugly stuff that's on here is said in Oz too. Folks, these are PEOPLE, just people. They're in trouble. Let's help.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

ozrex said:


> That says everything that I feel about the matter, so succinctly, that all I can say is a hearty "ME TOO".
> 
> I deeply regret saying that all the ugly stuff that's on here is said in Oz too. Folks, these are PEOPLE, just people. They're in trouble. Let's help.


yes. You don't need to adopt a whole family, nor do you need to give every last penny.....every little bit counts.

Even if you can't/don't want to actually help, it has to help by just thinking and re thinking about their situation and not condemning them.


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## LOLcats (Jun 21, 2014)

Cruella De Vil said:


> 1. Someone's home is not a doss house for waifs and strays.
> 
> 2. An adopted pet isn't going to possibly rob, rape or murder you, steal your identity, clean out your bank account, sell information on you to goodness knows who, nick your significant other from you, stab you in the back, get you bitten on the arse in repayment for your kindness, get you in trouble with the law, leave you in debt up to the eyeballs, accuse you of something you didn't do and any other unsavoury human trait that some people would do. Dramatic maybe, but sadly possible, there's a lot of not very nice people out there nowadays. I would seriously consider before inviting any stranger into the house, too many risks.


:shocked: :blink:

I honestly can't decide if I think you're trolling or ignorant....


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Such venom....
Walk a mile in their shoes.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

LOLcats said:


> :shocked: :blink:
> 
> I honestly can't decide if I think you're trolling or ignorant....


Just trying to stir things up. : Take no notice.

Gong back to adult debate again, I think that the title of this thread a lone is cruel - but without it, it probably wouldn't have caught people's attention; so it's served a purpose.

I just think that those who take such horrific risks to get here do so because they need our help - and we should give it. it would be a sad sign if we all did a Cruella, and turned our backs.

However, those who are leading reasonable and safe lives, who come merely for a better quality of life, in part because of our benefit/health system, I believe we should screen in some way, so that we accept people with the skills that we need.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

AJ600 said:


> Really? Where do you get this. Did you know immigrants are tested for TB when they come into the UK? Have you maybe thought that the reason viruses are spread more easily is because the world is actually better connected? You better lock yourself in the house, there's wind overnight you may get Ebola as it's carried through the air from Folkestone.
> 
> Immigrants are also responsible for the ozone, melting polar caps, animal abuse, children abuse, oh and the reason johnny down the road cannot get a job. No it's not because he can't read or dropped out of school you know. It was because an immigrant took the job.


I take it you think your sarcasm is amusing or clever?? In my opinion it contributes little or nothing to this thread. 
And anyone who comes into the country in the back of a lorry is not going to be tested for TB or anything else (as you seem to think) ... they are going to make themselves scarce surely?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

ozrex said:


> That says everything that I feel about the matter, so succinctly, that all I can say is a hearty "ME TOO".
> 
> *I deeply regret saying that all the ugly stuff that's on here is said in Oz too. *Folks, these are PEOPLE, just people. They're in trouble. Let's help.


Every country appears to have its own army of bigots and each one of them armed with their own pamphlet of prejudices.

For those who have nothing but venom in their words for their fellow man, you might like to step outside sometime to become more familiar with your own environment/surroundings. Be more observant.
Better still, try to consider what it must feel like to be dispossessed before you add your crass and banal comments founded upon inexperience.

Some people who come to England from eastern europe not only manage to secure work within a company and, surprisingly, pay their taxes but some are also hardworking enough to build and to set up a business of their own.

In my hometown some eastern europeans opened up shops in areas that were once in decline bringing new life to a place many thought would never recover. 
But instead of admiration for them and all their efforts resentment and scorn surfaced first and they were shown it without reservation. Claims that these people were taking over were rife.
How terribly sad.:sad:

However, I do wonder how many english people have chosen the services of the cheap polish plumber who appeared in the yellow pages over the more expensive services of their fellow national's?
I wonder how many english people have bought from a shop owned and run by an eastern european or bought food from one of their take-away's?

Perhaps only those who are without prejudices and accept the fact that these people are people not unlike themselves and nationality has no bearing on how we might or should view a person.

The most pathetic anti immigrant statement I ever heard is as follows;

*'When you think about all the men and women who fought and lost their lives in two wars to keep this country free you have to ask yourself what did they all die for?​*
It might be superfluous of me to point out but those two brutal world wars were fought to keep this world free of tyrants, despots and bigots.

Nevertheless, the question itself; 'What did they all die for?' still remains a painfully valid one because today the world is still run by tyrants, despots and bigots.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind you, this world belongs to everyone, not just those who find themselves in a more privileged position and treat it as though it was their own personal playground dictating who can and cannot play there.

I'm leaving to go and find myself now but if I should return before I get back would someone please ask me to wait.

Yours faithfully

A.N Immigrant.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

well, this thread has restored my faith in humanity!
Nice to know that there are so many caring souls about willing to take poor immigrants into their homes to live with them, give up their disposable income to support the less fortune and idk....maybe some of you are even thinking about volunteering abroad to help out in wartorn countries.
Well done! you are all putting me to shame....


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I think this whole issue is going to be a major deciding factor at the next election. Calling a voter a bigot cost Gordon Brown dear last time, people are entitled to express concerns and having concerns does not make one a bigot.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

Calvine said:


> I take it you think your sarcasm is amusing or clever?? In my opinion it contributes little or nothing to this thread.
> And anyone who comes into the country in the back of a lorry is not going to be tested for TB or anything else (as you seem to think) ... they are going to make themselves scarce surely?


Actually I did.  thank you ..

And well done to you for understanding that I was being sarcastic.

You still have not told me where you got your info from?

Your original post is uninformed and designed to scare people. Do you work for the DM> you do dont you?


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## Cruella De Vil (Sep 25, 2013)

ozrex said:


> That says everything that I feel about the matter, so succinctly, that all I can say is a hearty "ME TOO".
> 
> I deeply regret saying that all the ugly stuff that's on here is said in Oz too. Folks, these are PEOPLE, just people. They're in trouble. Let's help.


Again though, their not in Oz are they? Their on our shores when their not supposed to be! And oh yeah let's help. Let's make our services stretched to bursting point to give our money to others. Let's take in more and more despite there being limited space. Let's leave our people struggling their arses off to make a living, so our taxes can be used to keep people who've no right to be here comfortable. Let's give millions we don't have to every charity case on earth. I think we've 'helped' quite enough don't you? Time for some other countries to give their two penneth worth don't you think? Britain isn't a bank to keep the whole world afloat. And who helps us when were in trouble? Some country gets flooded and Simon Cowell organises a sing song to help. People here get flooded out, does the rest of the planet, you know, all those we've helped and given our money to so there is none to sort out our own problems, do they have a whip round? Do they heck as like, they don't give a toss as its not affecting them. High time Britain adopted the same attitude.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Again though, their not in Oz are they? Their on our shores when their not supposed to be! And oh yeah let's help. Let's make our services stretched to bursting point to give our money to others. Let's take in more and more despite there being limited space. Let's leave our people struggling their arses off to make a living, so our taxes can be used to keep people who've no right to be here comfortable. Let's give millions we don't have to every charity case on earth. I think we've 'helped' quite enough don't you? Time for some other countries to give their two penneth worth don't you think? Britain isn't a bank to keep the whole world afloat. And who helps us when were in trouble? Some country gets flooded and Simon Cowell organises a sing song to help. People here get flooded out, does the rest of the planet, you know, all those we've helped and given our money to so there is none to sort out our own problems, do they have a whip round? Do they heck as like, they don't give a toss as its not affecting them. High time Britain adopted the same attitude.


How old are you and how long have you been employed?


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Again though, their not in Oz are they? Their on our shores when their not supposed to be! And oh yeah let's help. Let's make our services stretched to bursting point to give our money to others. Let's take in more and more despite there being limited space. Let's leave our people struggling their arses off to make a living, so our taxes can be used to keep people who've no right to be here comfortable. Let's give millions we don't have to every charity case on earth. I think we've 'helped' quite enough don't you? Time for some other countries to give their two penneth worth don't you think? Britain isn't a bank to keep the whole world afloat. And who helps us when were in trouble? Some country gets flooded and Simon Cowell organises a sing song to help. People here get flooded out, does the rest of the planet, you know, all those we've helped and given our money to so there is none to sort out our own problems, do they have a whip round? Do they heck as like, they don't give a toss as its not affecting them. High time Britain adopted the same attitude.


Have you ever actually independently researched these issues to enable yourself to understand them better? If you did, at least looked at some statistics, you may realise that some of the more hysterical parts of the above post are written not from the point of view of knowledge, but from ignorance and prejudice.

There are some brilliant sources of material exploring all the arguments relating to immigration to this country, none of which include the Daily Mail. And they are all right there, on the internet 

And as an aside, Australia may be a big country but it too has limited resources and has it's fair share of immigration, as does the US, Italy, Germany, Russia, France, Spain, Canada etc etc.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I think this whole issue is going to be a major deciding factor at the next election. Calling a voter a bigot cost Gordon Brown dear last time, people are entitled to express concerns and having concerns does not make one a bigot.


I believe you are right. For the record, I believe people have every right to express their concerns. However, I would say there are more important things to be concerned about.

And scaremongering about immigrants, legal or otherwise, is an easy win for any politician. Too often people go after the soft targets, the easy targets without investing in the underlying issues. So I would not be surprised to have more votes going to the BNP.

Lets take the one item that is closest to a lot of us. DDA - it takes on the symptons not the cause.

All very depressing really.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Again though, their not in Oz are they? Their on our shores when their not supposed to be! And oh yeah let's help. Let's make our services stretched to bursting point to give our money to others. Let's take in more and more despite there being limited space. Let's leave our people struggling their arses off to make a living, so our taxes can be used to keep people who've no right to be here comfortable. Let's give millions we don't have to every charity case on earth. I think we've 'helped' quite enough don't you? Time for some other countries to give their two penneth worth don't you think? Britain isn't a bank to keep the whole world afloat. And who helps us when were in trouble? Some country gets flooded and Simon Cowell organises a sing song to help. People here get flooded out, does the rest of the planet, you know, all those we've helped and given our money to so there is none to sort out our own problems, do they have a whip round? Do they heck as like, they don't give a toss as its not affecting them. High time Britain adopted the same attitude.


Honestly, in my view, the reason services are stretched is due to Beureaucrocy. Spend money on something useful, rather than endless red tape. Red tape that is there to protect organisations because Joe Public is deemed to not be able to look after himself/herself.

Im quite proud to call myself an immigrant. I work long hours, I pay a lot of tax. And for years I was not able to access many of the services you take for granted.

You know what.. I give up... nothing is going to make you understand or get you to get some accuracy behind some of your statements. Because you clearly do not have a clue. I would suggest that you actually go and spend a day at the library and read up about some of your country's history and how it dealt with other countries.

The UK i want to be a part of, is not the UK that you want it to be.

Can someone please tell me how to ignore people's replies to threads?


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## ThelifeofPi (Mar 18, 2013)

Meezey said:


> How old are you and how long have you been employed?


Actually she sounds just like my mother (we parted ways a long time ago). This kind of attitude generally comes from the older generations who were once working class but always strived to be middle class


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

ThelifeofPi said:


> Actually she sounds just like my mother (we parted ways a long time ago). This kind of attitude generally comes from the older generations who were once working class but always strived to be middle class


Blimey!!I am one of the above,thats a bit of a sweeping statement.:001_unsure:


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

ozrex said:


> That says everything that I feel about the matter, so succinctly, that all I can say is a hearty "ME TOO".
> 
> I deeply regret saying that all the ugly stuff that's on here is said in Oz too. Folks, these are PEOPLE, just people. *They're in trouble. Let's help*.


The problem is we HAVE been helping. For years and years and years and nothing has changed!!!

Save the Children was founded in 1919 - 95 years ago.
Oxfam was founded in 1942 - 72 years ago. 
Live Aid was 29 years ago.

The UK, and the world, has been giving money to help the less fortunate for almost a century and there is very little difference to show for this!!!!

Like it or not, people do eventually become weary of seeing the 'same old same old' all the time.

I am sick of being told I am 'racist', uncaring, a Daily Mail reader, bigoted, uncompassionate, etc simply because I believe we need to sort out the problems in our own country - getting the unemployed into work, getting the homeless off the streets, getting decent, living pensions for old / ex-forces / disabled people BEFORE we start opening our doors to all and sundry and giving away our cash in overseas aid!

Charity is supposed to begin at home......

.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ThelifeofPi said:


> Actually she sounds just like my mother (we parted ways a long time ago). This kind of attitude generally comes from the older generations who were once working class but always strived to be middle class


I think she is a younger member ( was previous member on here) who still lived at home, and I do believe didn't have a job, if I remember correctly?? So kind of finding the attitude a bit rich.. Might be totally the wrong member but I doubt it... :sneaky2:


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I think this whole issue is going to be a major deciding factor at the next election. *Calling a voter a bigot cost Gordon Brown dear last time, people are entitled to express concerns and having concerns does not make one a bigot*.


You're absolutely correct and I accept that. :001_smile:

However, the term 'bigot' is and can be applied to a person who is completely intolerant of another and we have already seen the evidence of that written in certain vulgar postings.

Expressing an opinion and concern that an 'immigrant' will steal, rape, assault, murder and *eat your children* is not simply rooted in misleading propaganda but it is propaganda generated by a bigoted mind.

*There is no known record or evidence to suggest that 'immigrants' eat children if left unattended by an adult.:wink:


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

MoggyBaby said:


> The problem is we HAVE been helping. For years and years and years and nothing has changed!!!
> 
> Save the Children was founded in 1919 - 95 years ago.
> Oxfam was founded in 1942 - 72 years ago.
> ...


I agree with lots of your points on this topic.I remember watching an appeal for Aid on TV in between the news and watch with mother in the early 60s and its still going on now. Doesn't seem to matter how much we give, same old same old....but the children being helped now weren't around back then and they are suffering now.

I met a woman when I was in New York who was quite high up in a children's charity where she went out into the field so to speak. I asked her why so much money was donated and so little actually got to anywhere near where it was supposed to. She just sad, "You can't save them all, but every little bit does count."

I collected stuff for the Blue Peter appeals when I was still not yet a teenager...only for the ambulances that were customized from Land rovers to be stolen and turned into gunships in Africa...its sickening.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

suewhite said:


> Blimey!!I am one of the above,thats a bit of a sweeping statement.:001_unsure:


Blimus, me too! but I'm not a Cruella. I would think she is young and brainwashed and not particularly well educated or worldly wise. And hides it behind bolshiness.

But then, we all form our opinions from what we learn and what we see around us - oh, and the tabloids and THOSE programmes on TV.

Yes, we are only a small country, so of course we can't put the world to rights - but we can and should do our bit still, shouldn't we? We can't help everyone though, so somehow we have to help those that are really in dire need.

Many people not born in our country are extremely hard working - others are not; same as people born here.

So perhaps we should remember that each and everyone of them is an individual just like us; someone's daughter, someone's son.

Then give them a chance.


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## ThelifeofPi (Mar 18, 2013)

suewhite said:


> Blimey!!I am one of the above,thats a bit of a sweeping statement.:001_unsure:


I did say generally so that doesn't mean everyone


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

MoggyBaby said:


> The problem is we HAVE been helping. For years and years and years and nothing has changed!!!
> 
> Save the Children was founded in 1919 - 95 years ago.
> Oxfam was founded in 1942 - 72 years ago.
> ...


Its an individual thing how much or not anybody gives to charity. personally, I only donate to Salvatian Army.

I so agree with helping our own citizens to a more comfortable life but that doesn't mean we can't offer just a little bit to others.

I hear all the time about how our resources are stretched...they are not stretched, more like wasted and mismanaged.

My way of thinking was not to open our doors to all and sundry cos I really believe immigration needs a good shake up.....I was thinking more along the lines of what happens to people who come here illegally.

Unfortunately, the media always picks up on the ridiculous reasons for people seeking asylum here. The latest one I can think of was a family came here to avoid the nasty brother in law and the now 19 year old student wished to stay to continue her education.....don't know what happened cos that's the boring part of a sensational story and often we don't get to hear about any follow ups.

We work, we pay taxes.....we then have no say in where those taxes end up....even if the country doesn't help anybody, it won't lessen the amount of tax we have to pay.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I can't begin to imagine what it must be like for people to take such drastic action as to try and get here in a sealed up crate etc. What I can't get my head around is why here when they have obviously come across land and sea to escape whatever atrocities they are trying to get away from.

Other countries in Europe give benefits and asylum, other countries have the same problems as we do....other countries say the same thing....who is going to pay and all are already overcrowded.

Other European countries and many more also have health care and education....so what I really don't understand is if these people escaped, why take even more risks to come further and come here?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> Other European countries and many more also have health care and education....so what I really don't understand is if these people escaped, why take even more risks to come further and come here?


"The key question to ask about immigration is why it is that so many people want to come here. To better themselves, to speak English, to escape persecution, unemployment and privation  well, obviously.
But it is also more subtle than that. Its because Britain is still a largely free and mainly civilised society that protects minorities and abides by the rule of law"


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> I can't begin to imagine what it must be like for people to take such drastic action as to try and get here in a sealed up crate etc. What I can't get my head around is why here when they have obviously come across land and sea to escape whatever atrocities they are trying to get away from.
> 
> Other countries in Europe give benefits and asylum, other countries have the same problems as we do....other countries say the same thing....who is going to pay and all are already overcrowded.
> 
> *Other European countries and many more also have health care and education....so what I really don't understand is if these people escaped, why take even more risks to come further and come here?*


A question that is asked by many...........

And the answer is because they 'believe' our benefits system is easy. We have been told this by people who have come into this country. The 'word on the street' is that the UK is a soft touch who gives away houses and money to anyone with a sob story.

My husband worked with someone who was given asylum some time ago and he told him that although the system is not quite as easy as they expect, it can still be manipulated enough to get a decent earn and is far easier than trying to get anything like it in their own country.

.


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## Cruella De Vil (Sep 25, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I think she is a younger member ( was previous member on here) who still lived at home, and I do believe didn't have a job, if I remember correctly?? So kind of finding the attitude a bit rich.. Might be totally the wrong member but I doubt it... :sneaky2:


I do have a job, and I had one then too.



Zaros said:


> You're absolutely correct and I accept that. :001_smile:
> 
> However, the term 'bigot' is and can be applied to a person who is completely intolerant of another and we have already seen the evidence of that written in certain vulgar postings.
> 
> ...


Regardless of who they are, nobody could deny the possibility that someone could repay someone else's kindness by stabbing them in the back (both metaphorically and literally) in return. Ok it probably wouldn't happen, but it could, you only have to open a newspaper to see daily the awful thing people do to each other and how little a life is valued by some.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Again though, *their not in Oz* are they? Their on our shores when their not supposed to be! And oh yeah let's help. Let's make our services stretched to bursting point to give our money to others. Let's take in more and more despite there being limited space. Let's leave our people struggling their arses off to make a living, so our taxes can be used to keep people who've no right to be here comfortable. Let's give millions we don't have to every charity case on earth. I think we've 'helped' quite enough don't you? Time for some other countries to give their two penneth worth don't you think? Britain isn't a bank to keep the whole world afloat. And who helps us when were in trouble? Some country gets flooded and Simon Cowell organises a sing song to help. People here get flooded out, does the rest of the planet, you know, all those we've helped and given our money to so there is none to sort out our own problems, do they have a whip round? Do they heck as like, they don't give a toss as its not affecting them. High time Britain adopted the same attitude.


Ummm.....You do know how half of the ozzy's ended up in Australia, right?

I have to say that the selfish attitude of some just stinks...feck everyone else lets look after our own instead...Ironically that is exactly the attitude that has turn society into a free for all with little to no community spirit any more :nonod:

I am disgusted by the attitudes of some on this thread, and I hope for their sakes that they never end up down on their luck


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Cruella De Vil said:


> I do have a job, and I had one then too.
> 
> Regardless of who they are, *nobody could deny the possibility that someone could repay someone else's kindness by stabbing them in the back (both metaphorically and literally) in return*. Ok it probably wouldn't happen, but it could, you only have to open a newspaper to see daily the awful thing people do to each other and how little a life is valued by some.


But that applies to anyone, UK born or immigrant surely?

You vet people carefully, and you trust your instincts.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

MoggyBaby said:


> I am sick of being told I am 'racist', uncaring, bigoted, uncompassionate, etc.


Never once did I refer to you as a bigot Moggy. Nor did I ever regard you as being uncompassionate or racist.

My comment was reserved for and aimed directly at those who claimed and maintain 'immigrants' are evil people who are not to be trusted.

My sincere apologies.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Zaros said:


> Never once did I refer to you as a bigot Moggy. Nor did I ever regard you as being uncompassionate or racist.
> 
> My comment was reserved for and aimed directly at those who claimed and maintain 'immigrants' are evil people who are not to be trusted.
> 
> My sincere apologies.


Sweetest Zaros, I was not referring to you as having called me that. I was referring to the 'general populace' who happly lay these titles upon folks who would like to see the UK sorted out before we sort out everyone else.

I'm very sorry that you thought I was having a pop at you. :cryin:

.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> I can't begin to imagine what it must be like for people to take such drastic action as to try and get here in a sealed up crate etc. What I can't get my head around is why here when they have obviously come across land and sea to escape whatever atrocities they are trying to get away from.
> 
> Other countries in Europe give benefits and asylum, other countries have the same problems as we do....other countries say the same thing....who is going to pay and all are already overcrowded.
> 
> Other European countries and many more also have health care and education....so what I really don't understand is if these people escaped, why take even more risks to come further and come here?


Channel 4 news claim they have relatives in London: CRIME / TRANSPORT: Illegal immigrants found in shipping container at Tilbury docks: Some had relatives in London

If makes sense. If you were being persecuted in your own country would you a) go somewhere you have settled family b) go somewhere else? It may also just be that they were sent where the traffickers wanted them to go. Getting to the UK from Afghanistan is not as simple as jumping on a lorry and finding your own way, there are facilitators willing to exploit desperate people at every turn. There are tens of thousands of people living as slaves in this country for that very reason, held in bondage by people who moved them round the world for a 'price'.

People have this strange idea that we are the only country in Europe that asylum seekers come to. That's simply not true:










One of the big reasons some do want to come here is simple - we speak English and English is a common second language in many parts of the world. It's easier to explain your situation to people who you can communicate with.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

lennythecloud said:


> There are tens of thousands of people living as slaves in this country for that very reason, held in bondage by people who moved them round the world for a 'price'.


And unfortunately if there was no demand - there would be no need for a supply. You have to ask yourself why in this day and age a person would think... yep its ok for me to have a slave.

And no its not limited to women being forced into prostitution.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

MoggyBaby said:


> Sweetest Zaros, I was not referring to you as having called me that.
> 
> *I'm very sorry that you thought I was having a pop at you.* :cryin:
> 
> .


Oh sh1t! Me too.:crying:

I've just done a Socrates.

Does anyone have a stomach pump:001_unsure:

Sod it!

I've finished with this thread anyway.

When some folks have hold of the wrong end of the sh1tty stick and want to beat you with it I always think it's best to look at the funny side.:001_smile:


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

And to add to the figures - according to gov.uk "In the year ending June 2013 there were 6,198 grants of asylum"

Refugees and asylum seekers are really not the issue. Compare 6,198 to the half million visas granted that year.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Why the left is wrong about immigration | David Goodhart | Books | The Guardian

If you can be bothered to read through this article it pretty much sums up my feelings as to why its not the answer to allow mass immigration or long term asylum - the last few paragraphs explain that bit really well. A port in a storm during troubles is one thing but their own countries need them to help rebuild. The figures on the numbers of doctors and nurses left in some African countries are very worrying. Immigration is not the only way to show compassion and to help others - trade and aid are just if not more important.


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## LOLcats (Jun 21, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Why the left is wrong about immigration | David Goodhart | Books | The Guardian
> 
> If you can be bothered to read through this article it pretty much sums up my feelings as to why its not the answer to allow mass immigration or long term asylum - the last few paragraphs explain that bit really well. A port in a storm during troubles is one thing but their own countries need them to help rebuild. The figures on the numbers of doctors and nurses left in some African countries are very worrying. Immigration is not the only way to show compassion and to help others - trade and aid are just if not more important.


I honestly don't think anyone is tarring you and MB with the same brush as the 'they'll come and steal our jobs, women and corrupt our children' posters RPH

It's the vitriol and lack of human compassion that I know I for one took offence to


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

LOLcats said:


> I honestly don't think anyone is tarring you and MB with the same brush as the 'they'll come and steal our jobs, women and corrupt our children' posters RPH
> 
> It's the vitriol and lack of human compassion that I know I for one took offence to


My OH is english - so it should be steal our women or steal our men.



And if anyone wants to steal him back.. please PM me for details. 

PS just kidding - as much as we argue I would not get rid of him....... maybe..


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## LOLcats (Jun 21, 2014)

AJ600 said:


> My OH is english - so it should be steal our women or steal our men.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol::lol:


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Just realiesed Ive answered in this thread and not really read the title properly! Ive never thought that 'illegal' immigrants came here in big enough numbers to cause a problem...
I just dont see how our open house policy to immigration works in the long term. Surely if everybody comes here and we support them then eventually we run out of money so have to pay everybody that little bit less year by year. At some point wouldnt the standard of living become worse then where they came from?
I also worry that if large groups of people escaping persecution come here then what is to stop the persecutors also claiming asylum and coming here and just moving the conflicts to another country??
Maybe I do sound racist or evil but its the simple things that I think about.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Whenever I read these threads, I feel sad at the way general statements are made and facts are twisted to suit purposes. I live in Spain and we constantly have people from countries that are considered third world coming in, usually through boats and in very unsafe conditions.

First of all, it would be interesting to dust our history books and see how many countries that are today considered "poor" were colonies to those that they now seek asylum in. When we have an interest in getting valued resources out of such countries at next to nothing, we are the first to arrive at the scene, treating the people that live there even worse than we would any animal. Even in their own countries! It would be interesting how much was taken from them to build in the long run what we have today. Now that they have problems due to a large number of factors, some other country should take them. Some of the wars and conflicts these people are living have their origin in economic interest and have been fueled in an underhand manner by developed countries. Our botany teacher at the university whose family (part of it) was slaughtered in the Rwandan war told us how the two major tribes were being incited to hate through the radio by a developed country. It was horrible to hear him tell it in a conference where we also had a survivor from the Holocaust. 

A friend of mine some years ago asked me to please send her videos about the difficulties of coming over to Spain in a boat as her brother was in Morocco, waiting to do that. You would think that those who get money out of getting people illegally into countries would warn them that, it was dangerous, unsafe, some might not make it, the streets are not paved in gold, you will probably not get a job, not everyone will welcome you with open arms... But then they might lose some valued customers.

We have been lucky not to have experienced so many things that would have us argue for the other side. I feel immensely lucky for all I have, I watch the news and everything seems so far away.

Every time I watch films on slavery and the way people were treated with such little dignity, I cry. I look back and think that it´s all over but it´s not. Today a lot of people are living in bondage, treated with indifference at best when they come to our countries and happy to work for less and in things we prefer sitting down at home than doing ourselves. Why is this ok? Why should we be ok with another human being working the same as us or even more and earning less?

I lived in an African country for a number of years. Do you guys know how many foreigners are settled in Africa, establishing their companies and living much better than in their countries of origin while a lot of the citizens of those countries don´t eat three times a day? They still employ maids, drivers, workers and sadly pay some still treat them with the same disdain their ancestor did so many years ago.

Oh and lets talk of all the people who leave their country every year to go on holiday and promote sex tourism with children, a lot of them sold by their own families because they have nothing to eat.

The world is messed up, we have a lot of problems in our own countries and we can barely make ends meet. In Spain the crisis is horrible, so many people have lost their jobs and the future is so uncertain but we should be grateful that we are not living in so many countries.

A few years ago, a colleague told me "After all we have done for you, given you a house.."
I looked at her and told her "You have not given me anything, I was born here." I found it most annoying that she would assume that she was doing me a huge favour because of the colour of my skin, letting me leave in her country. I work, pay my social security and everything we own is ours. Yet some people who feel they getting less because others come feel they have the right to make you kneel down and say "Yes massah, thank you,"


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## LOLcats (Jun 21, 2014)

merlin12 said:


> Whenever I read these threads, I feel sad at the way general statements are made and facts are twisted to suit purposes. I live in Spain and we constantly have people from countries that are considered third world coming in, usually through boats and in very unsafe conditions.
> 
> First of all, it would be interesting to dust our history books and see how many countries that are today considered "poor" were colonies to those that they now seek asylum in. When we have an interest in getting valued resources out of such countries at next to nothing, we are the first to arrive at the scene, treating the people that live there even worse than we would any animal. Even in their own countries! It would be interesting how much was taken from them to build in the long run what we have today. Now that they have problems due to a large number of factors, some other country should take them. Some of the wars and conflicts these people are living have their origin in economic interest and have been fueled in an underhand manner by developed countries. Our botany teacher at the university whose family (part of it) was slaughtered in the Rwandan war told us how the two major tribes were being incited to hate through the radio by a developed country. It was horrible to hear him tell it in a conference where we also had a survivor from the Holocaust.
> 
> ...


Brilliant post, thank you


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

LOLcats said:


> 'they'll come and steal our jobs, women and corrupt our children'


Oh the amount of times I have been accused of stealing someone's job and stealing someone's man :lol: 
I always get a little bit upset when reading such threads. In the past the word 'immigrant' simply described a person who moved away from his home country where he was born and grew up and came to a new place looking for better life. Now immigrant seems to be a synonym to 'lazy', 'thieving', 'uneducated', 'inferior', 'illegal'.


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

> Again though, their not in Oz are they? Their on our shores when their not supposed to be! And oh yeah let's help. Let's make our services stretched to bursting point to give our money to others. Let's take in more and more despite there being limited space. Let's leave our people struggling their arses off to make a living, so our taxes can be used to keep people who've no right to be here comfortable. Let's give millions we don't have to every charity case on earth. I think we've 'helped' quite enough don't you? Time for some other countries to give their two penneth worth don't you think? Britain isn't a bank to keep the whole world afloat. And who helps us when were in trouble? Some country gets flooded and Simon Cowell organises a sing song to help. People here get flooded out, does the rest of the planet, you know, all those we've helped and given our money to so there is none to sort out our own problems, do they have a whip round? Do they heck as like, they don't give a toss as its not affecting them. High time Britain adopted the same attitude.


No, the asylum seekers in Britain are not in Australia. We do have a smaller number of people seek asylum in Australia and we treat them vilely. The way we treat asylum seekers makes me feel _bitterly_ ashamed of Australia.

I can only suggest that our appalling behaviour may be due to the disgraceful way that illegal immegrants have behaved here, in the past. Feel free to google the Myall Creek Massacre. It will make your hair stand on end. Around 30 local Australians killed by illegal immigrants who held different religious beliefs and followed their own laws rather than local law.

I wonder if people are less quick to offer help to the citizens of a wealthy nation than to offer help to a poor nation? While wealth is unevenly distributed in Britain and in Australia we are still unbelievably wealthy. Define wealth by world, not local, standards and you may be surprised.

I remember coming home after working in Samoa and standing in a shower, incredulous that I was using pure drinking water to wash my filthy body! But of course you know that in Australia and Britain we are so rich that we can use the luxury of pure water for washing. Of course we do have a problem with food... I think Australian obesity is rivalling the USA.

Maybe since we Aussies are getting fat it might help US to share a little.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Funny how people dont seem to think it makes any difference to our society and yet apparently the most popular boys name in the country is now Mohammed! 
Not saying that immigration is a bad thing...our National Health service would of fallen apart years ago without the regular influxes of foreign workers. Its just naive to think that it doesnt change things.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

It only comes out top if they add the different spellings together. Other names would also be higher up the list if they did the same. I'm sure if your name is Muhammad you would correct someone who wrote Mohammad. I'd do the same for the spelling of my name as there is an alternative that is similar.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Jobeth said:


> It only comes out top if they add the different spellings together. Other names would also be higher up the list if they did the same. I'm sure if your name is Muhammad you would correct someone who wrote Mohammad. I'd do the same for the spelling of my name as there is an alternative that is similar.


True, but why is it so popular? I cant think of any celebrities with the name and I cant think of a single person I know or have heard about who converted to any religion where the name is popular sooooo......


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Apparently, if it weren't for the Nigerian nurses, we couldn't run the NHS. Sadly, many people come here because they know they'll get benefits: since when should we pay for their kids back home and allow people who've contributed to the economy for decades to sit and shiver and starve in their homes because they can't afford food or heating? 

When I worked in Camden, I was amazed at the juxtaposition of the extremely rich eg Jude Law living side by side with immigrant families in a massive 5 bedroom Primrose Hill house. Mad!


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## ItsonlyChris (Mar 12, 2013)

When external cultures are infiltrating an already existing culture _without_ resistance, then it's worrying. The UK seems to have dropped it's pants and is readily holding it's ankles for everyone and anyone to take advantage of what we have. Yes it should be free to everyone but it's not and it's a harsh reality. Just because your neighbour has a nice car, it doesn't mean you are entitled to it.

Society is changing and it could be changing for the worse. The many different cultures that are now in Britain are an example. A study had been carried out and it found that many white British people felt that they didn't even have a culture any more and this concept was regarded as an _invisible culture_.

Truth be told, the number of immigrants is usually exaggerated. You'll see a high amount of different ethnicities in cities because of the high amount of work that is presumed to be there.

Mohammed is the most popular name because I'm guessing Islamic immigrants are naming all 6 of their sons after their prophet. Which is something worth pointing out. The number of immigrants might be small but you'll have families having multiple children.

I truthfully think that we should just send illegals back to where they're from. If you start a war in your own country then you have no business fleeing to another.

This probably sounds like a UKIP advertisement but, I don't know.

I'm not often encouraged to voice my opinions in sociology because... yeah...


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

ItsonlyChris said:


> When external cultures are infiltrating an already existing culture _without_ resistance, then it's worrying. The UK seems to have dropped it's pants and is readily holding it's ankles for everyone and anyone to take advantage of what we have. Yes it should be free to everyone but it's not and it's a harsh reality. Just because your neighbour has a nice car, it doesn't mean you are entitled to it.
> 
> Society is changing and it could be changing for the worse. The many different cultures that are now in Britain are an example. A study had been carried out and it found that many white British people felt that they didn't even have a culture any more and this concept was regarded as an _invisible culture_.
> 
> ...


What do you term as being an immigrant? Is it first generation, second, third or anyone whose ancestors originated from a different country? Because I hate to break it to you, every single person can trace back to a single source, which is Africa. Google cradle of life.

I'm not Muslim nor religious, but have been raised all of my life in a multiple religion area. And at the heart of all of them, there is a fundamental principle and that is to respect and love your fellow man. Unfortunately people forget this.

What do you define as being the English culture? I'm genuinely interested her, because different people have different views.

It is not as simple as saying, if you start a war...

Zimbabwe - origins was Portuguese settlers who favoured one tribe over another
South Africa - Britain was responsible for the first ever concentration camps during the Boer war
US/Brazil/Afghanistan & a number of colonised countries - most have the same story. A country is colonised with little to no thought of indigenous people, tribal boundaries and then war ensues and once the coloniser leaves, civil war erupts as the tribes previously favoured are retaliated against.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

AJ600 said:


> What do you term as being an immigrant? Is it first generation, second, third or anyone whose ancestors originated from a different country? Because I hate to break it to you, every single person can trace back to a single source, which is Africa. Google cradle of life.
> 
> I'm not Muslim nor religious, but have been raised all of my life in a multiple religion area. And at the heart of all of them, there is a fundamental principle and that is to respect and love your fellow man. Unfortunately people forget this.
> 
> ...


Exactly and Spain is also responsible for a lot in South America (good and bad). A lot of them come here because of the language and are well established. My sister for example goes to hair salons owned by people from Dominican Republic, she says they know her hair best. These days the term immigrants is just linked to all negative but I wouldn´t want to go anywhere in need of help and to be sent back to my country or treated with such disdain if I´m allowed to stay. Why can´t we all just be citizens of the world?


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

merlin12 said:


> Why can´t we all just be citizens of the world?


but we are....we just arent all equal. Its sad but true.
Personally Im not willing to give up part of my house to house the needy or live far below the poverty line to feed them and I havent heard anybody else on this thread offer to do that either!


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I'm not sure why people who are trying to escape a war should automatically be sent away? Going back to an earlier analogy, that would mean all German Jews should have stayed in Germany. After all that was their country. Would you really agree with allowing genocide purely on that basis? 

As for seemingly never ending aid, I do agree that at times it has been misplaced and that is a problem. The project where I worked 80% was based on teaching people farming and medical skills as well as ensuring the teenagers had access to education. The rest was around addressing their needs e.g a hospital and outreach. Aid has to be based on helping people to help themselves or it isn't sustainable. 

For areas stricken by war I think that the UN camps should be a place of respite. Some recent news items have suggested that they aren't much better than the situation they have left. 

I have been in the situation where people have opened their home to me and so have no issue with returning the favour. I'm not sure though why that is a concern?


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

catz4m8z said:


> but we are....we just arent all equal. Its sad but true.
> Personally Im not willing to give up part of my house to house the needy or live far below the poverty line to feed them and I havent heard anybody else on this thread offer to do that either!


I dont think that is what is asked for - what is asked for is that we show some compassion. In the western world, we waste a lot. Ideally we should only be consuming what we need. How much food is wasted?

Could I do more - probably. Do I feel guilty about not doing more, all the time. But I do what I can, when I can. And I hope that little bit helps.

I would never ask people to do the same, because its a personal choice. But there is going to come a time, maybe not in my generation where people will not have a choice. Purely because there will not be enough to go around.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

Can I say - even with some of the comments made on this thread. That I have actually enjoyed this thread. I think its great that different views were aired. They may not always have been the ones I would agree with. 

But as I believe I have the right to say what I think, then all should have the same right.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

AJ600 said:


> What do you term as being an immigrant? Is it first generation, second, third or anyone whose ancestors originated from a different country? Because I hate to break it to you, every single person can trace back to a single source, which is Africa. Google cradle of life.
> 
> I'm not Muslim nor religious, but have been raised all of my life in a multiple religion area. And at the heart of all of them, there is a fundamental principle and that is to respect and love your fellow man. Unfortunately people forget this.
> 
> ...


This re English culture is a big part of the problem.

I am English and moved to Scotland 10 years ago. I have never been on benefits apart from child benefit or family allowance.

I am white, own my own home, everything I have I saved up for and paid cash for...I don't do credit. If I can afford it and want it, I buy it.

We pay taxes, we contribute to the economy.I live in smallville and have heard and been subject to racism from Scottish bigots ....in my own country cos Scotland is still part of UK.My twin granddaughters aged 9 were born here but speak with an English accent and have had quite a few problems at school......racism comes out of ignorance but it still hurts.

The Scots are proud of their culture and heritage yet for an Englishman to adopt the same attitude he is racist and bioggoted.

If I buy milk or butter in Tesco or any other supermarket here, it displays St Andrews cross. and it is described as Scottish butter.Where would you ever find this in Englad with St Geoarge's cross?

Many Scots display a flag on a flagpole in the garden. There are 2 flags, 1 rampant lion and the other St Andrews cross. or saltire.For an Englishman to display St Geoarge's flag its classed as racist and inciting bad behavior.

David Cameron is saying we need to express our culture and be proud of our heritage and next there is a clip on you tube where people doing this have the police sent round and told to take it down.

The Scots can display their flags and be proud....I am English and live in Scotland, I don't feel threatened or intimidated my neighbours flying flags. good for them.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

catz4m8z said:


> Funny how people dont seem to think it makes any difference to our society and yet apparently the most popular boys name in the country is now Mohammed!
> Not saying that immigration is a bad thing...our National Health service would of fallen apart years ago without the regular influxes of foreign workers. Its just naive to think that it doesnt change things.


this week it was announced on TV that the 2 most popular names in UK were Oliver and Amelia.

Odd, cos children up here get called Hamish or James or Alexander mainly and various girls names like Isla and Iona etc


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

catz4m8z said:


> but we are....we just arent all equal. Its sad but true.
> Personally Im not willing to give up part of my house to house the needy or live far below the poverty line to feed them and I havent heard anybody else on this thread offer to do that either!


I don't think anybody is or will ask people to give up a room etc for a needy family...

question is....if you had relatives that were in need, would you do it for them?

next question....If the govt was offering very good rates in order for you take a foreign family, would you take them in then if you had room?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> This re English culture is a big part of the problem.
> 
> I am English and moved to Scotland 10 years ago. I have never been on benefits apart from child benefit or family allowance.
> 
> ...


Sadly though for the Union Jack and St Georges flag they have been used by racists as their flag and it has that attachment . Coming from somewhere where the Union Jack is used as a religious and political statement same as the tricolour I don't like seeing flags flown at all  A flag caused weeks of riots here. :frown2:


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> This re English culture is a big part of the problem.
> 
> I am English and moved to Scotland 10 years ago. I have never been on benefits apart from child benefit or family allowance.
> 
> ...


I would have no issue with someone flying a st georges flag? We do a charity bike ride every St Georges day - and I have one on the bike...

I think there is a bad connotation with it these days because of a less than desirable minority taking it to the extreme. When we were looking at houses, there was one which had a flag pole with a UK flag. I thought it was kinda cool. Unfortunately - that was the only thing cool about the house.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

My house doesn't have a number or even a street but does have a name. We have livestock so often have deliveries so its important that people know where to find me.

I met an English sign maker when we first moved and asked to see his books re signs. The usual house signs are thistles or cockerels...yuk and boring. I found a Tudor red rose....its simple and can be seen from quite a distance down the road.

It is not an English Rose but represents the house of Tudor from the English war of the roses. I come from Lancashire....the Tudor red rose home county....my mums lot are Irish catholics and my Dads side are Jewish....that doesn't make me any nationality apart from English cos we are all 4th generation at least born there.It does make me 100% part of the human race though.

We had a delivery and I was told I was pretentious spouting off English money....not because of the picture but because I bought a large sign to go in my front garden that could easily be seen.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> My house doesn't have a number or even a street but does have a name. We have livestock so often have deliveries so its important that people know where to find me.
> 
> I met an English sign maker when we first moved and asked to see his books re signs. The usual house signs are thistles or cockerels...yuk and boring. I found a Tudor red rose....its simple and can be seen from quite a distance down the road.
> 
> ...


My OH is Scottish, my Brother-In Law is Scottish you get the picture  I think one of the things that kind of shocked me when I first spent time with a large Scottish Regiment ( how my sister met my BIL) in their guard room was their dislike for the English, I have an English accent so I go a lot of stick ( abuse) but once I said I wasn't English they left me alone I became one of them, the same when I lived in Wales I was ignored when I went in to out tiny local post office when I first moved there, utterly blanked, until I had a conversation in there about not being English, was then a member of the community, Welsh Regiments same reaction to English, same as the Irish  It is truly odd, because of my accent people assume I'm English I'm not  but their reaction to me does change when they find out I'm from NI? The English were not welcome in to any pubs the Scottish had chosen to be theirs in Germany...


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Scotland is a beautiful part of the UK and we came here to downsize and semi retire.

There is racism and only what can be described as sectarianism here.

Celtic V Rangers.....and its a football match yet sends the Police force into major panic attacks.

Its centuries old....can't see it ever changing.

A few Scots are openly racist towards English...and also each other.

My daughter lives in a small village a few miles from here. Her neighbor is outwardly racists towards her. Daughter works...he doesn't...she she nicked a job that a Scot could have....yawn.

He is an undesirable anyway and marched into her house last week to scream abuse at her cos she had left kids toys on her front garden and he wasn't happy about it. He swore at her and was racist apart from being abusive. She pushed him out the door and rang the Police.

Police got around to speaking to her on the phone last night...daughter said.."I think his problem is he hates English" Policeman said..."That's this village for you."


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Meezey said:


> My OH is Scottish, my Brother-In Law is Scottish you get the picture  I think one of the things that kind of shocked me when I first spent time with a large Scottish Regiment ( how my sister met my BIL) in the guard room was their dislike for the English, I have an English accent so I go a lot of stick ( abuse) but once I said I wasn't English they left me alone I became one of them, the same when I lived in Wales I was ignored when I went in to out tiny local post office when I first moved there, utterly blanked, until I had a conversation in there about not being English, was then a member of the community, Welsh Regiments same reaction to English, same as the Irish  It is truly odd, because of my accent people assume I'm English I'm not  but their reaction to me does change when they find out I'm from NI?


oh yes..... madness though.

Its like going away on holiday abroad....and who are the lager louts causing the grief? English football hooligans..absolutely agree.

We used to choose places for holidays where they were not likely to be and went to Cyprus for many years...haven't been for a while, suppose that has changed and not for the better too


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

always a few s noisy ones that spoil for the rest


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> Scotland is a beautiful part of the UK and we came here to downsize and semi retire.
> 
> There is racism and only what can be described as sectarianism here.
> 
> ...


We get to enjoy part of it during the July here boat loads and I mean boat loads come over here to "enjoy" the 12th. We are also "judged" by what football team is support ie Ranger/Celtic...

It's not just in the UK itself tho that has that Love?? of the English.. Ironic really...


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

People generally don't give me any grief...and if they do, they don't do it twice.

My granddaughters were born in Aberdeen Hospital. Some Scot told me my granddaughters therefore are Scottish.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Sadly though for the Union Jack and St Georges flag they have been used by racists as their flag and it has that attachment . Coming from somewhere where the Union Jack is used as a religious and political statement same as the tricolour I don't like seeing flags flown at all  A flag caused weeks of riots here. :frown2:


Haven't most flags at some point? Not to mention national anthems...

Many, many moons ago I went on a two week voluntary work trip to Northern Ireland, and I still remember seeing kerbstones painted red white and blue or green white and orange, depending on the area. We also helped run a kids activity club several nights a week, and the day I took my facepaints along I was also under strict instructions that national colours of ANY nation were out of bounds - and even then I had to keep a careful eye out to make sure none of kids nicked the paints and started doing it for themselves. 

I was also having a similar debate not too long ago with a friend who genuinely doesn't 'get' the whole nationalistic pride/embarrassment thing. Which made for an interesting conversation, as I'm 1/4 Scottish and love that , but have a tendancy to never mention the 3/4 English part as I don't feel I'm really 'allowed' to be proud of being English and should go through life apologising for that part of my ancestry...


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## LOLcats (Jun 21, 2014)

The grief my family got as an Irish catholic family in England during the 70's and 80's is something I don't like to remember. Every time we travelled back to Ireland on the ferry our car would be searched, the family questioned about why we were travelling to Ireland, I wouldn't mind if they had been polite instead of talking to us like rubbish. 

My mum was always on edge, trying to sound less Irish  The insinuation that Irish Catholics must be IRA sympathisers, the horrible jokes that everyone thought was perfectly acceptable...it was horrid. 

When my Dad first came the England they still had the 'No blacks, No Irish, No Dogs' signs up when he was trying to get room and board :frown2:


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> Scotland is a beautiful part of the UK and we came here to downsize and semi retire.
> 
> There is racism and only what can be described as sectarianism here.
> 
> ...


What a horrible neighbour...

I grew up in the Apartheid years - and I found that racism is a two way street. Its not limited to one particular race.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Meezey said:


> We get to enjoy part of it during the July here boat loads and I mean boat loads come over here to "enjoy" the 12th. We are also "judged" by what football team is support ie Ranger/Celtic...
> 
> It's not just in the UK itself tho that has that Love?? of the English.. Ironic really...


My husband is a Rugby fan. Last year we went to watch Scotland V Ireland in Edinburgh.

There were leprechauns everywhere and the little man putting face stamps for each colour on people's faces as they went in to the ground. I looked at him and said Hiya...he picked up the Irish colours..and then said..which one do you want? I said Both.One on each cheek.

It was a good match, we had Irish supporters on one side of us and Scottish on the other and a girl with a set of bag pipes sitting in front of us kept standing up and palying Flower Of Scotland every time Scotland scored. Great day.

Went back to the hotel and the bar was full of Leprechauns....they were signing and dancing and very noisy...no trouble, no grief...just everybody having a good time.

No trouble walking back from the ground either but I do think there is less grief at a rugby match than a football match...and they have the bars open all day at a rugby match.

I love Ireland....spent many years going on holiday in Wales. I love England and will probably go back there when we finally retire.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

AJ600 said:


> What a horrible neighbour...
> 
> I grew up in the Apartheid years - and I found that racism is a two way street. Its not limited to one particular race.


My daughter grew up on a farm and is very strong despite her looks. He is a bully....he just met his match.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

So once again it comes down to respect - very little of it going around these days. 

Good for your daughter.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> Scotland is a beautiful part of the UK and we came here to downsize and semi retire.
> 
> There is racism and only what can be described as sectarianism here.
> 
> ...


Isn't that down to good old religion? Years ago I worked for a firm that did the catering at the majority of football grounds round the country, recall that the boss never ventured up to the Scottish grounds because they did not want it getting out he was a staunch catholic and if one side found out they would probably lose the contracts at certain grounds



LOLcats said:


> The grief my family got as an Irish catholic family in England during the 70's and 80's is something I don't like to remember. Every time we travelled back to Ireland on the ferry our car would be searched, the family questioned about why we were travelling to Ireland, I wouldn't mind if they had been polite instead of talking to us like rubbish.
> 
> My mum was always on edge, trying to sound less Irish  The insinuation that Irish Catholics must be IRA sympathisers, the horrible jokes that everyone thought was perfectly acceptable...it was horrid.
> 
> When my Dad first came the England they still had the 'No blacks, No Irish, No Dogs' signs up when he was trying to get room and board :frown2:


To be fair that was different times and security measures were different. Did work both ways actually, my brother dated a girl in Ireland for a while and on one occastion he was hauled aside and quizzed because of the suspected gun in his suitcase - it was a hairdryer!! But they still questioned him for ages on his reasons for going etc


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LOLcats said:


> The grief my family got as an Irish catholic family in England during the 70's and 80's is something I don't like to remember. Every time we travelled back to Ireland on the ferry our car would be searched, the family questioned about why we were travelling to Ireland, I wouldn't mind if they had been polite instead of talking to us like rubbish.
> 
> My mum was always on edge, trying to sound less Irish  The insinuation that Irish Catholics must be IRA sympathisers, the horrible jokes that everyone thought was perfectly acceptable...it was horrid.
> 
> When my Dad first came the England they still had the 'No blacks, No Irish, No Dogs' signs up when he was trying to get room and board :frown2:


Ohhh try coming from a mixed marriage with your Dad in the forces going to Catholic areas and the patrols assuming 

I am very much a live and let live kind of person, as long as people aren't hurting others then I don't care where you are from, your religion your sexual orientation the colour of your skin, we all bleed we all died........


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## ThelifeofPi (Mar 18, 2013)

catz4m8z said:


> Funny how people dont seem to think it makes any difference to our society and yet apparently the most popular boys name in the country is now Mohammed!
> Not saying that immigration is a bad thing...our National Health service would of fallen apart years ago without the regular influxes of foreign workers. Its just naive to think that it doesnt change things.


Muhammed is actually the most popular boys name in the world but I'm not sure why that would have anything to do with immigration or asylum seeking?
Most of the baby Muhammeds in the UK were born in the UK and so was the babies father and more often than not the grandfather. Muhammed is a name given to the first Muslim son so its popularity shouldn't be surprising.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Cruella De Vil said:


> Better idea, send everyone who shouldn't be here, whose here illegally, back where they came from as it's not our job to sure up the entire planet. How long do you suppose other countries would put up with us dumping ourselves on their shores then freeloading all their facilities and benefits for before being told 'eff off back home, these are in place for the residents of our country not the world and his wife'. Not long I'd wager. Only in soft touch Old Blighty.


Really, really fed up of people trying to make this out. There are many, many Brits living in, working in and CLAIMING BENEFITS FROM other European Countries.

Financial Times | Error | Akamai Error

Thousands of Britons claim dole in Germany - Telegraph

40,000 expat Britons claim benefits in EU | The Sunday Times

Do the poeple who moan about Europeans living, working and claiming benefits in Britain feel that Brits should not be allowed to live, work and claim benefits in other European countries? Or is it one rule for "us" and a different rule for "them"?

And as for what it costs us - the article in the FT link above points out that in terms of jobs taken up and benefit payments made to people from other European countries, the cost to our country is balanced by what we save from Britons living, working and claiming benefits abroad.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

ItsonlyChris said:


> A study had been carried out and it found that many white British people felt that they didn't even have a culture any more and this concept was regarded as an _invisible culture_.
> .


So people feel that we don't have any of our British traditions left? So what about:

The monarchy
Trooping the colour
The changing of the guard
Royal Guardsmen
Beefeaters
The Ceremony of the Keys
Chelsea Pnesioners
The State opening and closing of Parliament
The Edinburgh Tattoo
The Edninburch Festival
The agricultural fairs all around the country
Morris dancing
May-day celebrations
Dancing round the maypole
Fish and chip shops
Travelling fairs - eg goose faires
Seaside holidays
The British Bobby
St George's day
St David's Day
St Patrick's Day
Bonfire Night
Burns Night
Orange parades
Shrove Tuesday
Well Dressing
Maundy Money
Swan Upping
Rush bearing
The honours list
Henley Regatta

... and loads more (these were just off the top of my head!)


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## ThelifeofPi (Mar 18, 2013)

Like it or not, Britain has been multicultural for thousands of years.


Anyone who cant see that immigrant workers are an essential cog in the British machine are living on Mars. UKs foreign investment is only strong because we have a firm and established representation from foreign lands living here. In the modern world we couldnt economically survive without those investments. Multiculturalism does not weaken a country, it strengthens it. It props up our universities and colleges, it builds industries / infrastructures as well as bringing in new inventions. Immigrants play a key role in our economy and multiculturalism gives us more choices.

Im proud to live on an island that has such great acceptance to those with different values based on their culture and diversity. You only have to look at countries that isolate themselves to see those countries are repressed, intolerant and stagnated in the past. 
United Kingdom is a good name because like it or not, immigrants are people we unite with.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

ThelifeofPi said:


> Like it or not, Britain has been multicultural for thousands of years.
> 
> Anyone who cant see that immigrant workers are an essential cog in the British machine are living on Mars. UKs foreign investment is only strong because we have a firm and established representation from foreign lands living here. In the modern world we couldnt economically survive without those investments. Multiculturalism does not weaken a country, it strengthens it. It props up our universities and colleges, it builds industries / infrastructures as well as bringing in new inventions. Immigrants play a key role in our economy and multiculturalism gives us more choices.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately its not arguments such as this that wins elections.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> So people feel that we don't have any of our British traditions left? So what about:
> 
> The monarchy
> Trooping the colour
> ...


ah....most importantly, Bonfire Night.lol

It does seem like it is being eroded though when we have to call Christmas...Happy Holidays and when red cross stop selling Christmas cards cos it may offend non Christians.

When we lived in England, my 9 year old daughter's teacher banned Easter cos 1 child was a Jehovah's witness and she may have been offended...poor kid had a really hard time after that.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

lilythepink said:


> ah....most importantly, Bonfire Night.lol
> 
> It does seem like it is being eroded though when we have to call Christmas...Happy Holidays and when red cross stop selling Christmas cards cos it may offend non Christians.
> 
> When we lived in England, my 9 year old daughter's teacher banned Easter cos 1 child was a Jehovah's witness and she may have been offended...poor kid had a really hard time after that.


We have to call Christmas "Winter Festival" here but that nothing to do with immigrants that some silly sods deciding things are offensive,most of my street is muslim folk and they all shout "Happy Christmas" I think the PC brigade wind people up if they left us we would get along fine.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> ah....most importantly, Bonfire Night.lol
> 
> It does seem like it is being eroded though when we have to call Christmas...Happy Holidays and when red cross stop selling Christmas cards cos it may offend non Christians.
> 
> When we lived in England, my 9 year old daughter's teacher banned Easter cos 1 child was a Jehovah's witness and she may have been offended...poor kid had a really hard time after that.


This I find ridiculous.. growing up I loved the fact that we were able to celebrate all the holidays - Easter, Eid, Christmas, Diwali, Yom Kippur.

(Its no bluddy wonder I like sweets so much  )

How else will you learn? If not by experience.

PC gone made. In a way I am grateful we dont have kids. but if we did - would want them to experience religions the way I did.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

AJ600 said:


> This I find ridiculous.. growing up I loved the fact that we were able to celebrate all the holidays - Easter, Eid, Christmas, Diwali, Yom Kippur.
> 
> (Its no bluddy wonder I like sweets so much  )
> 
> ...


If you read a post I made a bit back it says my background but I was brought up a Methodist...long story and a very very strong willed Granny.lol

I don't particularly want to celebrate other festivals, have enough of what we have already but I have no objections at all to other faiths celebrating Christian events or any other faiths at all.

Agree with Meezey, Live and Let Live.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

we would be so much poorer for never having experienced other cultures...especially their food.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> ah....most importantly, Bonfire Night.lol
> 
> .


We don't " celebrate" bonfire night over here


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

suewhite said:


> We have to call Christmas "Winter Festival" here but that nothing to do with immigrants that some silly sods deciding things are offensive,most of my street is muslim folk and they all shout "Happy Christmas" I think the PC brigade wind people up if they left us we would get along fine.


Winter Festival?...new one on me.


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> we would be so much poorer for never having experienced other cultures...especially their food.


But so much thinner...


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Meezey said:


> We don't " celebrate" bonfire night over here


lol. someone said that to my daughter...she said we celebrate the fact they tried.lol

Bonfire Night is the best night of the year. Everybody welcome, never any arguments....plenty food and beer.love it


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

AJ600 said:


> But so much thinner...


lol. who cares? Every time I go back to visit relatives in England I am straight down to Rusholme first...big juicy kebab for my husband and next door to the sweet centre for me.lol


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## AJ600 (Mar 3, 2014)

In my team, we have this thing where once a month we do a cultural food day. So you bring one plate of a national dish with you to work and everyone gets to taste it.

Its everything from Babotie to curried tripe to soups to biscuits. And burgers with beetroot. Curried sausages and even potato stews (I also have vegetarians in the team - wont hold it against them though)

great event and the guys love it.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

lilythepink said:


> ah....most importantly, Bonfire Night.lol


Yeah - we coiuld do with a modern day Guy Fawkes ... :devil:



lilythepink said:


> It does seem like it is being eroded though when we have to call Christmas...Happy Holidays


Really?? How many of the zillions of Christmas Cards produced each year actually say "Happy Holidays"? Not being a christian, I want to send cards at Yule and so I purposefully try to find generic cards that don't say "Merry Christmas" or "Christmas Greetings" ,or some other phrase mentioning christmas. The only ones around are especially designed pagan ones.

People still wish each other "Merry Christmas", not "Happy Holidays". They go out for christmas meals and to christmas parties - not happy holiday meals and happy holiday parties. They have christmas dinner", not holiday dinner. They have christmas trees and christmas lights, not holiday trees and holiday lights. They buy christmas presents and christmas cards, not holiday presents and holiday cards. So does it really seem like an odd OTT incident here and there is eroding the traditions of this country?



lilythepink said:


> and when red cross stop selling Christmas cards cos it may offend non Christians.
> 
> When we lived in England, my 9 year old daughter's teacher banned Easter cos 1 child was a Jehovah's witness and she may have been offended...poor kid had a really hard time after that.


These two examples are neither indicative of the correct picture nor anything to do with our traditions being eroded - it's just individuals going OTT. Despite the tabloids stirring up as much trouble as they can, this country still celebrates Christmas and Easter.

And if I wanted to really be picky, I could mention that Christmas and Easter are festivals forced upon this country by christians who took over the existing festivals of the indigenous population and imposed their own festivals over the top of them - ie they eroded the existing traditions ...

What goes around comes around


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