# Dog lovers registration club a con?



## GizmoMogwai01 (Feb 7, 2018)

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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Anyone can write a pedigree.

It is simply a record of the ancestry of a pup.

Unfortunately, from an unscrupulous Breeder, it can be total fantasy.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

A pedigree is basically just a family tree; a record of lineage.
Someone could draw out a family tree on a scrap of paper and it'd be a pedigree.

That said, this registry in particular is not exactly reputable. Any dog could be registered as anything and whole lines could be twisted or fabricated entirely.
The Kennel Club is not infallible, things can still be forged, but in general its a much more reliable, 'official' system. If the breed is a KC registerable breed and is _not_ registered with the Kennel Club, you really need to ask yourself why...


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## GizmoMogwai01 (Feb 7, 2018)

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## GizmoMogwai01 (Feb 7, 2018)

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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

GizmoMogwai01 said:


> Crazy never even heard of it before! It could be very misleading for someone who could mistake it for genuine pedigree from the kennel club. I even went as far to message them about pups. And they told me I could kennel club register a pup if I wanted to..even tho Mum wasn't kennel club registered!!unbelievable!


Only the Breeder can register pups.

Pups cannot be registered unless both parents are registered.


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## GizmoMogwai01 (Feb 7, 2018)

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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

In order to register pups with the Kennel Club, you have to give details of their breeding.

If requested, the Kennel Club will then produce pedigrees.

However, a Breeder can write up pedigrees, which I used to do, but, a reputable Breeder would have no reason to falsify pedigrees.

It's really all about choosing your Breeder when buying a pup.


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## GizmoMogwai01 (Feb 7, 2018)

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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I think there used to be a couple of these weird clubs that you can register with. No idea what there is now. So long as it is made clear that is just a registration for the sake of it rather than meaning anything then it is fine. There used to be (probably still is) a register for spotted horse and ponies that meant nothing - as well as the proper breed registers that meant a lot. It could be misleading but if you did your homework and knew what it meant or didnt mean it was still nice to have a registered pony.


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## cavmad (Jan 27, 2009)

The dog lovers club is totally miss named it is used by puppy farmers and backyard breeders so they can sell their pups as registered


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

GizmoMogwai01 said:


> Crazy never even heard of it before! It could be very misleading for someone who could mistake it for genuine pedigree from the kennel club.


As already mentioned a pedigree is simply a history. It is not a sign of "quality" which is what many believe it to be. If the kennel club made an effort to correct this misconception...


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

cavmad said:


> The dog lovers club is totally miss named it is used by puppy farmers and backyard breeders so they can sell their pups as registered


Plenty of puppy farmers and BYBs register their puppies with the KC too. As @Goblin says KC registration is not remotely any kind of guarantee when it comes to finding decent breeders.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

GizmoMogwai01 said:


> Hi everyone I recently came accross an advert on a pets for sale site. The "breeder" if u can call them that! Was advertising pups with pedigree certificates. I screen shot the pic and zoomed in to find it was an apparent pedigree certificate from the dog lovers registration club??is this even worth the paper it's wrote on?!i was under the impression the only genuine pedigree papers were from the kennel club?i was shocked to see this so I reported the advert as this person was charging a lot of money for pups that she was claiming had "papers" for. I've never heard of this dog lovers registration club before. I've been on their website and it looks legal, but it's not a real proof of pedigree is it surely?


In all honesty its not worth the impressive looking paper work that you obtain when you register and its written on. You can register any dog, adult or puppies with no previous pedigree or history at all. All they need to be is "pedigree" but with no previous knowledge of the lines, or a genuine pedigree to start off with how can anyone be 100% sure.

The only registration that is worth anything would be Kennel club registration, and or a pedigree certificate.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

GizmoMogwai01 said:


> So it's just a con then?i thought it was strange. Never came accross it before. They have removed their adverts now


From what I understand it's a way backyard breeders/puppy farmers can con prospective owners that their puppies are registered. It's pretty much the same con as breeders of cross breeds use saying the puppies are registered with the Kennel Club. Not on the breed register but on the activity register but most people don't understand the difference.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

While the KC registration system isn't perfect, it's still infinitely preferable to something like DLRC, who register anything & everything.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere they're linked to a certain dog retail establishment with branches in Manchester & Leeds that shall remain nameless.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> While the KC registration system isn't perfect, it's still infinitely preferable to something like DLRC, who register anything & everything.


Why when a registry is a registry? So long as the parents are in the system, the kennel club will register anything so has nothing to do with good genes or the breeder. There is nothing "superior" in a "pedigree breed" or "kennel club recognised breed" by default when compared to other dogs.


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## SpicyBulldog (Jun 30, 2012)

Goblin said:


> Why when a registry is a registry? So long as the parents are in the system, the kennel club will register anything so has nothing to do with good genes or the breeder. There is nothing "superior" in a "pedigree breed" or "kennel club recognised breed" by default when compared to other dogs.


I'm sure there is more to it than that? At least here in states, we have these types of registries too. People advert registered then come to find they are not getting what they thought they were, that's on them not doing the research but they see the word papers and assume.... now it might not be better by defualt bad breeders exist that use bigger name registries but I think the difference would be in your ability to better research pedigree / info and to know that the pedigree is likely legit rather than made up or incorrect. He AKC list health test info on ancestors and you can research generations and information online, so you have a better idea.
I think registry and pedigree are just a starting point, but obviously probably all breeders / dogs in certain registries are mill/byb vs a legit registry won't all be good but you can find quality in it unlike the other guys.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

SpicyBulldog said:


> bad breeders exist that use bigger name registries but I think the difference would be in your ability to better research pedigree / info and to know that the pedigree is likely legit rather than made up or incorrect


The majority of "buyers" cannot care less about the ancestory. "pedigree" papers are used simply as a marketing tool by many pushing the idea that it is something more than it acutally is. Don't get me started on breeding for health when it comes to things like the kennel club. 10 years since pedigree dogs exposed and the Kennel Club is still pushing looks which lead to unhealthy dogs.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2018)

simplysardonic said:


> While the KC registration system isn't perfect, it's still infinitely preferable to something like DLRC, who register anything & everything.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I read somewhere they're linked to a certain dog retail establishment with branches in Manchester & Leeds that shall remain nameless.


Let me guesse the bad place.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Goblin said:


> Why when a registry is a registry? So long as the parents are in the system, the kennel club will register anything so has nothing to do with good genes or the breeder. *There is nothing "superior" in a "pedigree breed" or "kennel club recognised breed" by default when compared to other dogs.*


And I have never said there is I'm no fan of many of the Kennel Club's ideals so there's no point in trying to label me as a pedigree snob

But at least with the Kennel Club there is the possibility of finding a breeder with better ethics, with something like DLRC or DWKC they are just a marketing tool for the dishonest to fleece the unwary (or not bothered) into thinking they're buying a registered dog with a reputable lineage.

This isn't just an opinion, it's a _fact_, & I know of at least 2 incidences where these shoddy little fly-by-night organisations have registered animals that don't even exist- one of these animals is a soft toy, & the other is a 'wild boar' coloured Rottweiler that doesn't even exist.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> And I have never said there is I'm no fan of many of the Kennel Club's ideals so there's no point in trying to label me as a pedigree snob


Nor did I imply you are a pedigree snob. Then again as soon as people point out the problems with "pedigree" and kennel club they will take offence as though it's a personal attack.



> But at least with the Kennel Club there is the possibility of finding a breeder with better ethics, with something like DLRC or DWKC they are just a marketing tool for the dishonest to fleece the unwary (or not bothered) into thinking they're buying a registered dog with a reputable lineage.


"Possibility".. How many puppy farms use the kennel club to register pups? Most people don't have a clue about "reputable lineage' and wouldn't recognise one if they saw one. I'm not exactly stupid in terms of researching a dog and breeder but I wouldn't have a clue as to a reputable lineage. Again what some people define reputable line and others would could be argued.

I'm not going to link an example but I spent 3 minutes before I found puppies for sale from a less than reputable source. KC Registered coming with all pedigree and bloodline information of both parents etc and 5 weeks free kennel club insurance as part of the sales pitch.

Now the Kennel Club also have the assured breeders scheme but not sure what the status is of that now. I do know it had startup problems but was definately a step in the right direction. To the public at large who unfortunately do not do research the perception is "pedigree" and kennel club registered is the kennel club's approval of the breeder. You and I know that is false. Does the kennel club to anything to correct this misconception? Do others or do they take offence at any criticism?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Goblin said:


> Nor did I imply you are a pedigree snob. Then again as soon as people point out the problems with "pedigree" and kennel club they will take offence as though it's a personal attack.
> 
> "Possibility".. How many puppy farms use the kennel club to register pups? Most people don't have a clue about "reputable lineage' and wouldn't recognise one if the saw one. I'm not going to link an example but I spent 3 minutes before I found puppies for sale from a less than reputable source. KC Registered coming with all pedigree and bloodline information of both parents etc and 5 weeks free kennel club insurance as part of the sales pitch.
> 
> Now the Kennel Club also have the assured breeders scheme but not sure what the status is of that now. I do know it had startup problems but was definately a step in the right direction. To the public at large who unfortunately do not do research the perception is "pedigree" and kennel club registered is the kennel club's approval of the breeder. You and I know that is false. Does the kennel club to anything to correct this misconception? Do others or do they take offence at any criticism?


I completely agree, but they're not going to give up the revenue from BYBs & PFs.

They do still run the ABS, but a lot of good breeders no longer participate as it's open to anyone who jumps through some fairly low set hoops. Health testing prerequisites are all well & good but I've seen puppy farmers to have AB status so I wouldn't say it's the benchmark of quality the KC touts it as.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> I've seen puppy farmers to have AB status so I wouldn't say it's the benchmark of quality the KC touts it as.


And until people do their research before buying a puppy... If people did their research the "pedigree papers" wouldn't be an issue either.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Goblin said:


> The majority of "buyers" cannot care less about the ancestory. "pedigree" papers are used simply as a marketing tool by many pushing the idea that it is something more than it acutally is. Don't get me started on breeding for health when it comes to things like the kennel club. 10 years since pedigree dogs exposed and the Kennel Club is still pushing looks which lead to unhealthy dogs.


I think the breed societies set the standard. The KC is just a registration body with a lot of background so that you can really look into what you are buying. Neither of mine are registered because it did not bother me but most of my ones in the past have been. How can you breed from your dog if you do not know its lines and you cannot show if it is not registered. You can check up on health tests with a registered dog too.


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## SpicyBulldog (Jun 30, 2012)

Goblin said:


> *The majority of "buyers" cannot care less about the ancestory.* "pedigree" papers are used simply as a marketing tool by many pushing the idea that it is something more than it acutally is. Don't get me started on breeding for health when it comes to things like the kennel club. 10 years since pedigree dogs exposed and the Kennel Club is still pushing looks which lead to unhealthy dogs.


Yup that's the problem. It's very ridiculous they need to educate themselves and research. Since these buyers don't care about researching ancestry and the actual breeder, it's why they come in these forums or even complain to me directly face to face about their pet shop or buy dogs health issues, like you bought the dog from a bad source without ever glancing at the pedigree or without a pedigree at all. Now they are mad or heartbroken because their dog requires an expensive surgery, must be put to sleep, or has passed or suffers from a chronic illness.

Not to even mention the genetic temperament issues.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

SpicyBulldog said:


> Yup that's the problem. It's very ridiculous they need to educate themselves and research. Since these buyers don't care about researching ancestry and the actual breeder, it's why they come in these forums or even complain to me directly face to face about their pet shop or buy dogs health issues, like you bought the dog from a bad source without ever glancing at the pedigree or without a pedigree at all. Now they are mad or heartbroken because their dog requires an expensive surgery, must be put to sleep, or has passed or suffers from a chronic illness.


Yet the Kennel Club actually still encourages breeding against health and advertises poor breeding to be the ideal.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Goblin said:


> Yet the Kennel Club actually still encourages breeding against health and advertises poor breeding to be the ideal.


When do they do this


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

The Kennel Club don't write Breed Standards, the Breed Clubs do and then submit to the Kennel Club for approval.

The K. C. are very limited in what they can do about poor breeding practises. They are taking some action though.

About 3 years ago, quite a few Best of Breed winners at Crufts were not allowed to progress to the Group. From memory, the Bassett Hound, the Bulldog, the Clumber Spaniel and the Pekingese were among them.

Those in the best position to change things for the better are the Judges. If they penalised any dog for being over exaggerated, unsound or unhealthy, the situation could change relatively quickly.

Nobody who shows dogs would waste time, money and effort producing pups which were going to be penalised and unplaced in the showring.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Blitz said:


> When do they do this


Try the Illustrated Breed Standards 2017 for a start. 10 years after pedigree dogs exposed the Kennel Club has basically done lip service to changing the plight of many breeds. No shock considering they are simply a registration system and some, not all, breed clubs do not want change.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Goblin said:


> Try the Illustrated Breed Standards 2017 for a start. 10 years after pedigree dogs exposed the Kennel Club has basically done lip service to changing the plight of many breeds. *No shock considering they are simply a registration system and some, not all, breed clubs do not want change.*


So why are you blaming the kennel club. Pedigree dogs exposed was mainly a load of rubbish anyway which did a great deal of harm as now so many people think they are better off buying unregistered or cross breed dogs who have been bred with no care at all.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Blitz said:


> So why are you blaming the kennel club. Pedigree dogs exposed was mainly a load of rubbish anyway which did a great deal of harm as now so many people think they are better off buying unregistered or cross breed dogs who have been bred with no care at all.


That's a side effect because it highlighted the truth about some breeds and breeding practices which were and still are accepted and condoned by many. Interesting that you highlight the problem that people looked elsewhere, not that the problems highlighted didn't a exist as your first response isn't it.



> We are the UK's largest organisation dedicated to protecting and promoting the health and welfare of all dogs.


Stated on the front page of the Kennel Club yet they condone breeding of unhealthy animals due to conformation.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The very system the KC promote, that of completely distinct breeds each with their own closed stud book, is inherently damaging and inevitably leads to more health issues and a decline in general vitality as the genetic diversity of each breed is reduced. Yes, they have the unverified parentage scheme but they certainly don't seem to be encouraging its use (which they really should be given the dire state of many breeds in terms of genetic diversity) and it's very difficult to find much information on what the scheme is achieving so far.


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## SpicyBulldog (Jun 30, 2012)

I'd like to see where KC encouraged people to actually breed against health? I'm not familiar with the KC.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

SpicyBulldog said:


> I'd like to see where KC encouraged people to actually breed against health? I'm not familiar with the KC.


What else are they doing by accepting breed standards and conformation which leads to health problems and showing extreme examples as what to aim for in their own publications? The problem is breeders pay the kennel club and breeders do not want to change the look they love in their breed even when it's a recognised problem. Obviously this doesn't apply to all breeds, breeders or breed clubs.


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