# Please help settle a debate about moggies v pedigrees health.



## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

I don't usually post in this section, but I do read as I love to hear about breeders and their new arrivals, and see the photos. I also wondered if you could help settle a debate that began with my sister today, as she is convinced that moggies are healthier than pedigrees. I said that I believed the opposite because pedigree cats from ethical breeders were health tested for conditions commonly affecting their specific breed, before breeding with them; whereas she said that moggies had those conditions eradicated through breeding with different types other than their own breed. I touched on in breeding between moggies, but she counteracted this with what I think was natural selection of the fittest. (Not sure I'm explaining this very well and I didn't totally follow her reasoning to be honest). 

Unfortunately she has had pedigrees that have been affected with various conditions over the years; a Persian who had eye problems and died of cancer at 13, a Ragdoll who has recurring IBD, and a Chinchilla who also is prone to eye problems. I don't know whether she bought from breeders who did it properly and registered. She has said that she won't have another full pedigree, but any cats she has in the future will be half pedigrees - so she gets the traits of the breed she loves, but a cross so it's hardier. I pointed out that this will inevitably come from a back yard breeder, with no health tests, but I just got the answer that whatever the tests her current cats' parents had had, it hadn't prevented their offspring having recurring problems. Oh yes, and that they can't test for conditions in young breeding cats that appear later in life. 

I feel that I've been round here long enough to know that moggies are best from a rescue, pedigrees should be registered, parents health tested, kittens vaccinated and kept until 13 ish weeks, from an ethical breeder. But I don't have the answers on tap when someone tries to argue that moggies are hardier. She also said that the vet had said that 'fancy cats' have health problems, which moggies are much less prone to. It doesn't really matter to me where she, or anyone else gets their cats from. But if I can persuade someone against going to a BYB, rather than a breeder who does it properly, believing they will get a healthier cat that way, it would make me happier.


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## cows573 (Apr 20, 2017)

I have no pedigree cats... as yet....

But I have experience of pedigree dogs as well as mongrels.

I have had two pedigree dogs in my lifetime but many mongrels or dogs that weren't pedigree... I lost one pedigree dog at 9 years old and another at the same age a few weeks ago... The way I am feeling at the moment... I will never have another pedigree as all my non-pedigree dogs or mongrels lived a lot longer than this.... Nine years, imo... is too soon for such a loss....

I have many cats, have had many cats.

I have rehomed from a variety of organisations - both as kittens and older..... I have loved and lost most of them, unfortunately... 

My eldest cat is a kitten from a cat I re-homed from a relative, that I didn't realise was intact.

Many moggies have many issues... as do many pedigrees! Personally, my eldest cats are from our own cats. 

And as many of my cats are elderly... I plan to breed my youngest as I am fed up of losing our pets too young! I am sure many on here will think this is disgusting... but perhaps they may understand ....

Millie - age ???? with us 1.5 yrs - cat flu - many, many antibiotics, semi-feral, eventually no antibiotics could help
Coleen - 1.5 yrs old, mysteriously died, just gone one day, found the next... her brother is still with us...
Pop - Much Loved, Never Forgotten! 1.5 yrs old, had to be pts, no diagnosis... suspected inbreeding...
Twinkle - age ??? with us less than a year - undiagnosed abcess at time of re-homing, operated on and drained repeatedly... eventually pts...
Smokey - 12 yrs old, always old before her time - suspect feral kitten removed from her mum too young as she never groomed herself properly or hunted...

I purchased my youngest from byb for £100... after the loss of one of our cats ... when no rescues in our area within 100 miles, would rehome a cat to a family with other cats, dogs or children....


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Honestly? I wouldn't bother arguing about it tbh 

Our cats have always been moggies who lived healthy, long lives.

There are good and bad examples of moggies and pedigrees.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Every health issue that pedigree cats have also shows up in moggies, but no one monitors moggies.



Jansheff said:


> But if I can persuade someone against going to a BYB, rather than a breeder who does it properly, believing they will get a healthier cat that way, it would make me happier.


I'm glad you're trying, it's disheartening seeing on fb or forums how often people support bybs over rescue kittens or well bred pedigrees.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

I think it's all anecdotal at the end of the day.

Like with dogs, there are breeds of cat who's physiology makes them more prone to specific heath problems, whereas this isn't the case with most moggies. 

I don't know enough about health testing in cats to comment. If it's like dogs and we are talking polygenetic conditions (multi factorial; genetic and environmental influence) then health testing can only provide reassurance and is not a guarantee. For anything straight up where they are clear/carrier/or affected then obviously you have piece of mind and guarantees......

I don't know if I've been freakishly lucky with my cats (numerous moggies, a Persian cross, and x3 BSH) but none have had any pressing health problems and most have lived 15+ years without any vet visits. I have never fed anything fancy either, just tinned food, never dry as my limited cat knowledge has told me it's not good. My male BSH is 16 now and while he looks pretty ropey, is still trundling on......


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I think the key point here is that people need to stop comparing dogs and cats. Their physiology is completely different, they have grown in very different ways as very separate species.

HCM, for example, is thought to be more prevalent in moggies than it is in pedigrees. Your average moggy owner won't do an autopsy so often the HCM is undiagnosed or misdiagnosed. Breeders of pedigrees will often have their breeding cats and offspring diagnosed to identify which lines _may _carry the genes.

Moggies have just as many health problems as pedigrees, the only difference is that we are more aware of pedigree problems due to extensive testing by breeders over many, many years.


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## Luna_2016 (Oct 3, 2016)

I keep being told by a friend that its always the pedigrees that have problems, but thats a small sample size based on the fact her mum had a couple of pedigrees with issues and our pedigree cat has issues. They arent health problems directly related to her specific breed though so I would argue that its nothing to do with it.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2017)

I lost 2 cats to cancer last year Ditto with occular & Data with thyroid carcinoma, both were moggies. I have 2 pedigrees, a Maine coon & a Burmese. Both have had health issues, neither was breed specific. My Burmese had mycoplasma felis last year. This would probably not have been spotted in one of the moggies. I noticed as she was losing her voice & she starting being withdrawn. Personally I would say they are equal. My oldest cat was 27, she had an awful lot of problems in the last few years, which you would expect of a cat her age. I now have my older cats blood tested for geriatric problems in the hopes of 'heading them off at the pass'.
The cat with the biggest problems at the moment is a moggie with bad arthritis. I imagine her life will be shortened as she is on metacam. I'm pretty sure there is little, or no, difference between breeds / moggies, although I have heard larger breeds of cats live a shorter time. I'll let you know when Argie is in his 20's


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

I believe there

are websites that show average age for each breed of cat and moggies outlive the majority. As you brought the question up though I was compelled to find evidence as I thought it was common knowledge.

I did find this article;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24925771

It states that there is a statistical difference between purebred cats life expectancy and moggies life expectancy. Cross breeds median age is 14 (9.1yrs-17yrs in the sample) and pedigrees median age is 12.5 (6.1 yrs-16.4yrs). These were selected from 118,016 cats attending 90 practices in England, 4009 cats with confirmed deaths were randomly selected for detailed study.

It also states the likelihood of having a cat that lives a longer life is to have a cross breed, have a cat thats not overweight, being neutered and bizarrely not being insured!

Zoe


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2017)

All 3 of my oldest cats were not insured. In actual fact, until last year, I had never had a cat with a serious illness, so, had never insured any of them!


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Franlow said:


> All 3 of my oldest cats were not insured. In actual fact, until last year, I had never had a cat with a serious illness, so, had never insured any of them!


I've not insured my first two cats - one passed away aged 16 - he went down hill with no noticeable symptoms very quckly. One is still going strong at 18 though he has CKD now but I've just paid out for him as he's been pretty healthy until the last year or so really. My little girl cat goes out every day so I've had her insured in case she gets run over (god forbid!)

You would think though that people who have insurance are able to afford treatments that would prolong their cat's life, so would have though they lived longer. I'm not saying that people would force their pets to have treatments that extend their lives at the cost of their cats, or that people who don't have insurance wouldnt pay out for these treatments. I just figured those with insurance would be more likely to go down that route as they can afford it. A controversial subject no doubt!


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

Wow, thanks, some really interesting points here. There are obviously no clear cut answers either .... interesting that moggies' life expectancy is longer than that of a ped - I wonder if that takes death by accident (RTA) into account or just illness/disease. But then I would expect more moggies to be outdoor cats and be lost to road accidents, so that doesn't add up either. I suppose the trouble is that unfortunately some pedigrees are bred with little care and responsibility and pedigrees from all backgrounds are all included in the statistics. Difficult to argue a case for buying a ped over a cross breed when there are no clear statistics. 

However, I'd still much rather go to a responsible breeder, who takes the health of their cats and kittens seriously, than someone who churns out crossbreeds and knows nothing beyond sticking a male and female in a pen together.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Jansheff said:


> Wow, thanks, some really interesting points here. There are obviously no clear cut answers either .... interesting that moggies' life expectancy is longer than that of a ped - I wonder if that takes death by accident (RTA) into account or just illness/disease. But then I would expect more moggies to be outdoor cats and be lost to road accidents, so that doesn't add up either. I suppose the trouble is that unfortunately some pedigrees are bred with little care and responsibility and pedigrees from all backgrounds are all included in the statistics. Difficult to argue a case for buying a ped over a cross breed when there are no clear statistics.
> 
> However, I'd still much rather go to a responsible breeder, who takes the health of their cats and kittens seriously, than someone who churns out crossbreeds and knows nothing beyond sticking a male and female in a pen together.


"_The most frequently attributed causes of mortality in cats of all ages were trauma_" I suspect this accounts for RTAs as I'm not sure what other sort of fatal trauma the average cat is likely to experience. As 91% of the cats in the research were crossbreeds (aka moggies) then it is likely that these cats would be allowed out and be more subject to the risks of traffic, than if the numbers of crossbreeds and pedigrees was even in the research.


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