# Making cat owners more responsible



## mfpetlover (Aug 16, 2011)

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum so if this has already been discussed previously, please accept my apologies!

I have two cats, aged 8 and 9, who have free access outside via a cat flap, but who also have use of litter trays. Next door there is a large, ginger male (neutered) cat who absolutely scares the life out of both of my cats, who virtually throw themselves through our cat flap whenever it appears in our small (paved) garden.

My question is - has anyone else ever thought that owners of maruading cats should be made responsible for the pain and hurt they inflict on other cats in the neighbourhood? Whilst neither of my current cats have actually been injured by this cat, I have had cats in the past who have had to be attended to by the Vet due to injuries inflicted by other local cats, and all at my own expense. I also have a friend whose cat was recently seriously injured by a known local "bad cat" and almost lost its life, but this was saved by the Vet, at huge expense to my friend.

When a neighbourhood cat is known to be a fighter, is there anything anyone can do to remove the cat from the vicinity or make the owner responsible for vets fees incurred by their own animals?


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Not as far as I am aware but maybe someone else knows differently. Do you know if the cat has been neutered? If not, you could try reasoning with your neighbour to see if they would have this done. It would help to calm an aggressive Tom cat.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2011)

No i dont think there is to be honest, there are cats in my neighbourhood that have scared and chased my sasha but in all honesty that is just cats being cats. 

I cannot see what you can actually do about it. I am not going to stop my cat from going out because of it, she has to fight her own battles and just the same you cannot knock on a neighbour and tell them that there cat is vicious and you want them to keep it indoors.


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## mfpetlover (Aug 16, 2011)

Yes, the cat has been neutered, but is known in the neighbourhood for being a particularly nasty piece of work. The owners are aware of his antics but just seem to think its fine to laugh it off with "he's very friendly and cuddly at home". 

He is also, apparently, dominated in his own home by a very elderly (16 yr old) female cat, but I don't feel that gives him the right to terrorise every other cat in the neighbourhood, or that the owners should get away with not having responsibility for either keeping him in or being faced with a Vets bill. 

I suppose the main question from them would be - prove it was my cat. Perhaps there should be a Neighbourhood Watch for bad cats!?


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2011)

mfpetlover said:


> Yes, the cat has been neutered, but is known in the neighbourhood for being a particularly nasty piece of work. The owners are aware of his antics but just seem to think its fine to laugh it off with "he's very friendly and cuddly at home".
> 
> He is also, apparently, dominated in his own home by a very elderly (16 yr old) female cat, but I don't feel that gives him the right to terrorise every other cat in the neighbourhood, or that the owners should get away with not having responsibility for either keeping him in or being faced with a Vets bill.
> 
> I suppose the main question from them would be - prove it was my cat. Perhaps there should be a Neighbourhood Watch for bad cats!?


If you could get video evidence of this cat attacking other cats then yes it could be evidence etc, but am not sure how far it will go to be honest.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

I'm afraid that's life! Cats fight each other but many cats attack birds, mice etc where would you draw the line?


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## mfpetlover (Aug 16, 2011)

I appreciate what you're saying and of course am fully aware that cats will be cats, however, have you never been faced with a huge Vets bill as a result of injuries inflicted by a neighbourhood hoodlum? If that cat continues to inflict injuries on other local cats and you know who the culprit is and where they live, would you not feel you have a right to confront the owner?


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2011)

mfpetlover said:


> I appreciate what you're saying and of course am fully aware that cats will be cats, however, have you never been faced with a huge Vets bill as a result of injuries inflicted by a neighbourhood hoodlum? If that cat continues to inflict injuries on other local cats and you know who the culprit is and where they live, would you not feel you have a right to confront the owner?


No i probably wouldn't what are they going to say to you??? They may tell you to keep your cat indoors then if YOU have an issue, you would say NO why should i, they will say "Why should we??? That's what cats do, they always fight over territorial issues and males and females, some cats just do not get on.

They are not going to start keeping there cat in or pay the vets bills for you, and if you go over there ranting all that is going to happen is you are then going to fall out with your neighbours over something that you cannot control.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

It is just one of the risks you take when you open the door and allow your cat to go out.If this cat was to come into your house and attack your cat that may be seen differently,but as far as I am aware it is survival of the fittest out side.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2011)

buffie said:


> It is just one of the risks you take when you open the door and allow your cat to go out.If this cat was to come into your house and attack your cat that may be seen differently,but as far as I am aware it is survival of the fittest out side.


Yes i have to agree.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

I can totally understand the point you are trying to make.

If this was a kid with behavioural problems, who kept beating up your child and breaking his toys, the parents would have some kind of responsibility towards the issue and would be obliged to re-imburse you for any damage.

However, substitute cat for kid, and suddenly there is no responsibility and the cat can do whatever he pleases!!!

The problem with this issue is that cats are free roaming and, when out unsupervised, will do what they like. It is impossible to exert control over them. And it is not unusual for sweet, timid little Fluffy in the house to become big, bullying thug once he gets over the garden wall. 

I cannot see how there would be a way of changing this that does not become silly. Do you really want your neighbours knocking on your door to go into their garden and clean up the poo your cat left behind???? And how do they prove it was your cat....


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

This "responsibility"issue comes up from time to time and I have often thought .....Be careful what you wish for.At the moment there are few laws,if any,in place regarding cats.If that changes and I would ,personally,like to see some changes,where will that leave the free roaming angle.


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## mfpetlover (Aug 16, 2011)

Obviously it would be difficult to stop cats roaming around in their natural way and I would never advocate that anyway. What I do feel should be addressed is the rogue cats who everyone knows about and attempts to keep their cats away from, but who persist in terrorising the local cat population and scaring cats which then develop all manner of problems which incur further Vets costs trying to figure out what's wrong.

One of my cats is particularly terrorised by my neighbours cat and continually sprays in the house and is very jumpy and nervous in his own home where he should feel safe. The cat next door has been in the house on at least three occasions but never when I am around (once it came in at night when the cats were alone downstairs). One occasion it came in and obviously came a cropper behind my settee where I found my cats collar and a large amount of ginger fluff, and my cat looking very dishevelled but otherwise unhurt but even more nervous than before.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2011)

mfpetlover said:


> Obviously it would be difficult to stop cats roaming around in their natural way and I would never advocate that anyway. What I do feel should be addressed is the rogue cats who everyone knows about and attempts to keep their cats away from, but who persist in terrorising the local cat population and scaring cats which then develop all manner of problems which incur further Vets costs trying to figure out what's wrong.
> 
> One of my cats is particularly terrorised by my neighbours cat and continually sprays in the house and is very jumpy and nervous in his own home where he should feel safe. The cat next door has been in the house on at least three occasions but never when I am around (once it came in at night when the cats were alone downstairs). One occasion it came in and obviously came a cropper behind my settee where I found my cats collar and a large amount of ginger fluff, and my cat looking very dishevelled but otherwise unhurt but even more nervous than before.


How is the other cat getting in your house?


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## mfpetlover (Aug 16, 2011)

Through the cat flap.

Yes, before you ask, I have obviously looked at getting one of those cat flaps that only allows your cat/s in and I know that the cat next door doesn't wear a collar, so it is an option I'm exploring at the moment. It will at least put a stop to the other cat coming into the house, but my only concern is that in his rush to get into the house when confronted by the other cat, the cat flap won't open quick enough to let Louis in and stop next doors cat from attacking him, again. I have never seen a cat fly through a cat flap as fast as Louis does when he has Willow on his tail.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2011)

mfpetlover said:


> Through the cat flap.
> 
> Yes, before you ask, I have obviously looked at getting one of those cat flaps that only allows your cat/s in and I know that the cat next door doesn't wear a collar, so it is an option I'm exploring at the moment. It will at least put a stop to the other cat coming into the house, but my only concern is that in his rush to get into the house when confronted by the other cat, the cat flap won't open quick enough to let Louis in and stop next doors cat from attacking him, again. I have never seen a cat fly through a cat flap as fast as Louis does when he has Willow on his tail.


I would never let another cat in my house, it can cause loads of problems for your cats and behavioural issues, they will and clearly have become nervous in there own house which is not right.


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## Philski (May 28, 2010)

First of all, I would recommend investing in a microchip catflap - it will definitely help to keep other cats out of your house and help your cats feel more secure at home. (They are not 100% safe, though; a local cat has realised that there is a window of a second or two, after my cats have come in, before the flap locks again behind them - he waits for them to come in and then throws himself at the flap!)

Secondly, I have to agree with most others and say that if you allow your cats to roam outside, then you have to accept that other cats are one of the dangers that they can and will encounter. I can see that the aggressive cat's owners seem a bit flippant which doesn't help, I'm sure; I can't really suggest anything to help, other than keeping your cats in and only allowing them out if you're around to supervise them.


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## mfpetlover (Aug 16, 2011)

Having a microchip cat flap will also alleviate my other concern regarding having a controlled entry and exit, in that what if they lose their collars and cannot gain access to their own homes. But I understand they are very expensive.


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## mfpetlover (Aug 16, 2011)

KathrynH said:


> I would never let another cat in my house, it can cause loads of problems for your cats and behavioural issues, they will and clearly have become nervous in there own house which is not right.


I have not "allowed" the other cat to come in, it has chosen to come in when I'm not there, hence my problem! Even having a dog doesn't seem to deter it and in fact it squares up to the dog (a collie) whenever it meets her outside the house.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2011)

mfpetlover said:


> I have not "allowed" the other cat to come in, it has chosen to come in when I'm not there, hence my problem! Even having a dog doesn't seem to deter it and in fact it squares up to the dog (a collie) whenever it meets her outside the house.


Can you not get one of those cat flaps that they can go out but then you turn it so no cat can come in???

And when you are out you will have to make sure your cats are in obviosuly.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

mfpetlover said:


> anyway*Obviously it would be difficult to stop cats roaming around in their natural way and I would never advocate that *. What I do feel should be addressed is the rogue cats who everyone knows about and attempts to keep their cats away from, but who persist in terrorising the local cat population and scaring cats which then develop all manner of problems which incur further Vets costs trying to figure out what's wrong.


If you dont want to prevent cats roaming around in their natural way,what would you like to see happen.As far as I can see you have a problem with a cat who is doing exactly that.Some cats fight ,some dont,they are by nature "territorial"All you can do is to ensure as far as you are able/willing to ,your cats safety.If that means that you have to fit a more secure cat flap to prevent access by others then so be it.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

You let your cats out. You have no idea what fights your cats have been in, maybe your cats have caused injury to another? You have absolutely no idea what is going on in the big outdoors.

You want to let your cat out, as does this other owner. You both have equal rights to let your cats out. How exactly would they prevent this cat being nasty? 

You are the only one in control of injuries to your cat, ie by keeping them inside.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it. cats are looked on as unlicensed pets so you dont have a leg to stand on.


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

Cats with asbo's..............Hmm now theres a thought.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

raggs said:


> Cats with asbo's..............Hmm now theres a thought.


Well Mush is currently on tag for being involved in the recent lootings.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Well Mush is currently on tag for being involved in the recent lootings.


Was he stealing chocolate mice?


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

[email protected] Poor Mush on tag


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Sacremist said:


> Was he stealing chocolate mice?


No he decided to steal some carpet! He said everyone else was doing it and it was peer pressure.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

mfpetlover said:


> Having a microchip cat flap will also alleviate my other concern regarding having a controlled entry and exit, in that what if they lose their collars and cannot gain access to their own homes. But I understand they are very expensive.


Which would be more expensive - a microchip cat flap for around £80 - £100 or continuing vet bills from your cat being attacked?


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

aspo = anti social pussy order........roflmao now. hahahahahaha:lol::lol:


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> No he decided to steal some carpet! He said everyone else was doing it and it was peer pressure.


Any excuse! What a little thug.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> No he decided to steal some carpet! He said everyone else was doing it and it was peer pressure.


Well I hope he got a decent roll, not just off cuts  No good looting unless you get decent stuff


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Have you considered cat proofing your garden in a way that does not allow others to get in? You can do that relatively cheaply.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2011)

and the damage they do in peoples gardens


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## mfpetlover (Aug 16, 2011)

LouiseH said:


> Have you considered cat proofing your garden in a way that does not allow others to get in? You can do that relatively cheaply.


Can you give me an idea of how I can do that? My garden is surrounded by a 6ft fence and I know for a fact that my own cats stay within the confines of my small, courtyard garden.


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## mfpetlover (Aug 16, 2011)

jenny armour said:


> unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it. cats are looked on as unlicensed pets so you dont have a leg to stand on.


So you are all happy to let your cats be attacked by the local cat hooligan and then to stamp up the Vets fees when they need attention?

So be it, I rest my case.

My cats are loved and protected as much as I can make them, and I KNOW that they are not prowling around the neighbourhood stirring up trouble, they are too traumatised by the neighbours cat to go beyond the confines of their own garden now.

I appreciate that cats are free spirits and I don't have a problem with that, but I do feel that if more people spoke up about rogue, nasty local cats, something could be done to bring these owners to task. I know too that there are no laws to protect either the cat or its owner, but I really can't believe that no-one on this forum has not thought "if I get my hands on that cat/cat owner, I might not be responsible for my actions"? Surely you don't all have bottomless pits of money to continually pay out for your cats when they get injured?

Maybe if enough people campaigned to sort this problem out, less cats would be injured/traumatised in their own localities?


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

But can you say how exactly the other owners are supposed to stop their cats doing this? keeping them inside? Why not take action into your own hands and keep your cats inside.

By letting your cats out they are at risk of those cats, foxes, all sorts of things. You choose to take that risk when the cats leave your home.

To cat proof the garden there are various ways. Googling will come up with various ways of doing it as they vary.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Out of interest, lets say your neighbours get a photo of your cat sitting in top of their car roof, and pictures of large scratches which they estimate will cost £300 to respray. Would you happily pay that?


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I can answer your question very easily.This is purely my own thoughts on this matter and is in no way meant as anything other than that.As I consider the "outside world" to be full of dangers, many more than the neighbour hood bully cat,I choose to keep my cats as house cats for their safety and that of the wildlife around me.If they need to have "outside" timeI will build a run in the garden.


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## mfpetlover (Aug 16, 2011)

Yes, to my mind, that is irrevocable evidence. I am a responsible cat owner, unfortunately, there are many out there who are not.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2011)

mfpetlover said:


> So you are all happy to let your cats be attacked by the local cat hooligan and then to stamp up the Vets fees when they need attention?
> 
> So be it, I rest my case.
> 
> ...


My cat is out all night long sometimes and there are cats that don't like her in the neighbourhood but she has never come home injured, and if she did i would just deal with it, i am not going to go round the neighbourhood shouting my mouth off trying to find the culprit, it just is not what you do.

If you risk your cat going out then that is the risk you take end of.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Can I ask what exactly you would like to happen so we can be clear about what it is you are expecting people to say?


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

For your kitties safety I would suggest you only let them out while you're home, and lock the cat flap at all other times, and of course at night time as kitties shouldn't be out at night anyway. Not sure what else you can do ... except keep them in.


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## Sparkles87 (Aug 30, 2010)

mfpetlover said:


> So you are all happy to let your cats be attacked by the local cat hooligan and then to stamp up the Vets fees when they need attention?
> 
> So be it, I rest my case.
> 
> ...


Hello! 
Sorry to hear of the trouble you're having. I'm just curious; you mention these owners being 'brought to task' over their 'rogue' cats, but I'm not exactly sure what you think they can do? They cannot control the behaviour of their cats while they are free roaming animals, just as you cannot control the behaviour of yours. 
You're right in saying that I don't have bottomless pits of money to continually pay out for my cat if he was to get injured, but what I do have is pet insurance. However, I negate this issue anyway by keeping him indoors and occasionally taking him out while supervised into the garden. I'm not really sure what you can do other than what has already been suggested - surely paying for a catflap only your cats can enter through is cheaper than continual vets bills? It's a one-off expense and will ease the situation for both you and your cats.

Good luck,

Sparkles


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2011)

If I had an outdoor cat who was getting bullied & seriously hurt resulting in vet treatment personally I'd either cat proof my garden or keep it in the house. I don't think I could let it out knowing it could get seriously hurt, possibly fatal if infections set in etc. Just not worth the risk. You can't do anything to prevent it happening, it's a shame but I think it's part & parcel of having an outdoor cat.


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## SarahBugz (Mar 14, 2011)

I live in village near selby aswell and I too have problems with a rather large ginger and white tom cat and an all ginger tom cat (I believe they are brothers). I got really annoyed when they kept chasing one of my cats round my garden and I've cought them jumping in through one of the windows and have even scratched my boyfriends car on a couple of occasions.

I understand fully where you are coming from and know how you must be feeling but I've just had to accept that having cats and letting them go outside has it's risks. My cat tries to eat the fish in my next door neighbours pond but they dont come round with a bill every time it does manage to catch one. We just have a laugh about it over the fense. They too have accepted that keeping a pond with expensive fish has it's risks and that cats will be cats. 

You can either keep them indoors or let them out with the occasional threat of coming into contact with another cat. My Cats have never been injured, they just sit in the garden and growl at each other.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

mfpetlover said:


> "if I get my hands on that cat/cat owner, I might not be responsible for my actions"? Surely you don't all have bottomless pits of money to continually pay out for your cats when they get injured?
> 
> Maybe if enough people campaigned to sort this problem out, less cats would be injured/traumatised in their own localities?


I feel your pain, and I know it seems unfair that your cats are attacked in their own garden, but frankly, how sure are you that your own cats, given a chance, would not equally bully other cats if they could? Before I catproofed my garden, I used to let my cats wander freely. I am sorry I did, because aside from the injuries my cat got due to a neighbourhood bully, I am sure he was not entirely innocent himself. Yes, I have had evil thoughts about our local toms, but, in the end, there is not much I can do about it. A wandering cat will encroach on the territories of others and they have no sense of trespass.
Catproofing your garden, keeping your cats indoors or using the catflap options mentioned above, are the only ways you would get closer to some sort of solution, I am afraid. 
Good luck.


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## SidGnome (Aug 25, 2011)

Can I just throw another view into this interesting conversation? My cat is the biggest lad in the hood. I am sure he bullies other cats. Hell, I think he bullies the dogs that walk past our house. I haven't trained him to be that way -that's not really possible - he is a cat being a cat, he just happens to have a strong personality and he defends his (large) territory with vigour.

I have never had a complaint, but if I did what could I do about it? Should I have him put to sleep? Should I lock him up? What exactly can I do to stop being an "irresponsible" owner of a "rogue" cat?


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## lulubel (Apr 28, 2011)

SidGnome said:


> I have never had a complaint, but if I did what could I do about it? Should I have him put to sleep? Should I lock him up? What exactly can I do to stop being an "irresponsible" owner of a "rogue" cat?


Cat proof your garden is the only thing that comes to mind.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

mfpetlover said:


> I have not "allowed" the other cat to come in, it has chosen to come in when I'm not there, hence my problem! Even having a dog doesn't seem to deter it and in fact it squares up to the dog (a collie) whenever it meets her outside the house.


It's a cat not a human. If you have a flap it can get into then you've allowed it into the house. It doesn't know.


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