# Possible terrorist attacks



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Looks like there may be a campaign across Europe 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/dec/19/berlin-truck-crash-christmas-market-live
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/1...n-shooting-near-islamic-center-in-zurich.html


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rona said:


> Looks like there may be a campaign across Europe
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/dec/19/berlin-truck-crash-christmas-market-live
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/1...n-shooting-near-islamic-center-in-zurich.html


Just seen the news.
A truck careered into a Berlin Christmas market killing 9 people and 50 more in hospital (some in a serious life threatening condition). Police are treating it as a deliberate attack possibly terrorist attack. One person in custody and the passenger is dead.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Russian ambassador shot. Russia blanes: NATO. Promising to use nukies against any country that may want to join it . (Turkey, Ukraine...)..

How long it took since Trump was elected and both US and Britain are in turmoil?
And EU in confusion...
Not wasting time...
I am quite sure the weapon s terrorists have are Russian..
Yes...I am suggesting they have fingers in every pie that bring " The West" into chaos and disrepute.

Moving fast.

@rona ...do you still think it is ridiculous to talk about destabilization?
Domino...


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> Russian ambassador shot. Russia blanes: NATO. Promising to use nukies against any country that may want to join it . (Turkey, Ukraine...)..
> 
> How long it took since Trump was elected and both US and Britain are in turmoil?
> And EU in confusion...
> ...


You have this completely wrong @cheekyscrip the assassination of the Russian Ambassador in Turkey was to do with what was going on in Syria as the Assassin shouted "Don't forget Allepo". The man that carried out the assassination was shortly afterwards shot by police outside the building.

The truck incident in Berlin is currently being investigated and the Police have not ruled out terrorism. The driver behind the wheel was an assylum seeker who entered Germany earlier this year with the migrant flow and the passenger was shot dead. The original driver of the truck who is Polish reported the truck as being hijacked/stolen from a construction site in Poland yesterday. America intelligence services said they did warn of such an incident in Europe last month. 12 dead, 48 in hospital.









That is what the news is broadcasting this morning.

None of these incidents @cheekyscrip are to do with the UK leaving the EU or a larger conspiracy regarding Russia.

I will jog your memory. Do you remember when the Syrian crisis started the UK, America and European countries dropped arms into rebel held areas of Syria (not knowing who these rebels where) for the rebels to attack Assad and topple him. Shortly afterwards ISEL emerged from these rebels and claimed swathes of land in Syria and Iraq. The West armed ISIS not just Russia, we have given them the weapons they have (we as in America, UK and European countries). So again there is no Russian conspiracy there.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mi...eapons-6973238.amp?client=ms-android-motorola


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Berlin: Truck ploughs into crowds at Christmas market in Berlin - 12 dead, 50 injured | World | News | Daily Express

This is the latest report.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> You have this completely wrong @cheekyscrip the assassination of the Russian Ambassador in Turkey was to do with what was going on in Syria as the Assassin shouted "Don't forget Allepo". The man that carried out the assassination was shortly afterwards shot by police outside the building.
> 
> The truck incident in Berlin is currently being investigated and the Police have not ruled out terrorism. The driver behind the wheel was an assylum seeker who entered Germany earlier this year with the migrant flow and the passenger was shot dead. The original driver of the truck who is Polish reported the truck as being hijacked/stolen from a construction site in Poland yesterday. America intelligence services said they did warn of such an incident in Europe last month. 12 dead, 48 in hospital.
> View attachment 294148
> ...


Please read my post! Never said it was not done by Syria in retaliation.
But Putin is accusing the West. Why? Do you think he believes it?
Of course not. But he uses it to threaten us. And make Turkey and Ukraine think twice.
Not long ago he would not dare...
Split of EU makes us all weaker.
That is a fact. Russia now gets bolder and threatens.
All is connected. No one is an island.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> Please read my post! Never said it was not done by Syria in retaliation.
> But Putin is accusing the West. Why? Do you think he believes it?
> Of course not. But he uses it to threaten us. And make Turkey and Ukraine think twice.
> Not long ago he would nor dare...


Putin said it was a terrorist attack and didn't blame the West. A Russian UK reporter blamed the West for broadcasting news about Syria that she claimed wasn't true in a rant on Sky news whilst being interviewed but was cut off in the middle of her rant by another person they where interviewing. Putin did not blame the West in his televised news conference he said he blamed terrorists for the assassination of there Ambassador in Turkey.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> Putin said it was a terrorist attack and didn't blame the West. A Russian UK reporter blamed the West for broadcasting news about Syria that she claimed wasn't true in a rant on Sky news whilst being interviewed but was cut off in the middle of her rant by another person they where interviewing. Putin did not blame the West in his televised news conference he said he blamed terrorists for the assassination of there Ambassador in Turkey.


Did not blame the West eh?








And no, they do not do Boris Johnson. Putin's minions will never talk about matter of such importance if not given such orders. Read that all.
Tell me now Russia had nothing to do with Clinton's emails...
You work for data protection?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> Did not blame the West eh?
> View attachment 294152


Well this is new news as he didn't blame the West immediately afterwards. I was watching the news when it broke.

Fair enough news papers are hyping the story up (that's how they sell newspapers after all). This was not what was being reported on live TV when this story broke.

News article on this incident: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...n-turkey-by-22yearold-policeman-a3424186.html

The attack was condemned by TM and BJ.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

There was a body in the cab which they believe to be that of the Pole who was originally driving it legitimately. They believe he was killed by the eventual driver who ran into the market and that the lorry had been hijacked. Nothing confirmed yet tho' as far as I can see. Dreadful, regardless of why or by whom. A very heartbreaking Christmas for many families of course. Frightening times we live in. My son and gf were at a Xmas market in Stuttgart not long ago.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

stockwellcat said:


> The attack was condoned by TM and BJ.


I doubt they condoned it @stockwellcat...condemned possibly?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

:Muted


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Calvine said:


> I doubt they condoned it @stockwellcat...condemned possibly?


Whoops, predictive texting.
I'll correct it.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Don't the papers hype things up? 

The Russians are blaming this guy 
http://www.city-journal.org/html/who-fethullah-gülen-13504.html

The trouble is, he's living in the USA


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> *Whoops, predictive texting*.
> I'll correct it.


Yeah! Ain't it a pain.

I remember typing a really polite and well composed response to one particular thread that I wholeheartedly disagreed with, and shortly after tapping 'Post Relpy'

My contribution was read as; 'I've never read such complete and utter b0ll0cks in all my life!'

I give up! Technology will be the absolute ruination of us all.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Dreadful .  How awful for the wife of the Diplomat to see her husband gunned down in front of her and the families of those killed and injured in Berlin to lose their loved ones in such a way .
Not just them but all the people involved in wars suffering , staving to death in Yemen , blown to pieces in Aleppo . What a world


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Truck was driven from Poland it seems

so the EU "open border" policy has claimed victims...if it had been customs stopped/checked the chances are the driver would have been stopped


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Zaros said:


> Yeah! Ain't it a pain.
> 
> I remember typing a really polite and well composed response to one particular thread that I wholeheartedly disagreed with, and shortly after tapping 'Post Relpy'
> 
> ...


You cant blame the technology for the dimwit cockwombles who get to use it


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Colliebarmy said:


> You cant blame the technology for the dimwit cockwombles who get to use it


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Colliebarmy Cockwomble 
I shall use that nxt time someone pees me off!


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> @Colliebarmy Cockwomble
> I shall use that nxt time someone pees me off!


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)




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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

..


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> Truck was driven from Poland it seems
> 
> so the EU "open border" policy has claimed victims...if it had been customs stopped/checked the chances are the driver would have been stopped


Typical propaganda mouthpiece with no backing in reality. It wouldn't as they had a valid reason to travel with goods, not a bomb. If you want to start on the blame immigrants route instead, first remind me where the 7/7 bombers came from for the tube bombings in London.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> Typical propaganda mouthpiece with no backing in reality. It wouldn't as they had a valid reason to travel with goods, not a bomb.


News article from de Spiegel newspaper:


> Police tweeted that they suspect the truck involved in the deadly incident may have been stolen from a construction site in Poland.
> 
> Ariel Z., the man whose shipping company owns the truck, said in an interview with broadcaster TVN 24 that the normal driver of the truck had been his cousin and that he had been unable to reach him by phone since 4 p.m. on Monday. Z. said he was certain his cousin was not the perpetrator. "Something must have been done to him," he said.


The above was quoted from German news sources and widely broadcasted on international news channels.
http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-1126642.html



> Who drove the truck?
> 
> This has not been finalized yet. Shortly after the accident a suspect was arrested. According to information from SPIEGEL ONLINE, the suspect Naved (or Navid) B. According to authorities, he is said to be 23 years old and come from Pakistan. According to the BKA Management Report and the Foreigners' Central Register, it was submitted to the Federal territory on 11 February 2016. In contrast, it can be heard from investigators that he was already on December 31, 2015 came to Germany. According to the BKA management report, he has a residence permit since 2 June 2016. However, the information must be treated with caution. The suspected perpetrator could have operated with fake documents and alias names.
> 
> News agencies report that the suspect had been police-armed at a time because of minor offenses.


 Translated from this news source: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/berlin-lkw-spur-fuehrt-nach-polen-a-1126643.html

It is also being broadcasted that the driver at the time of the incident is of Pakistan origin and came to Germany with the migrant flows in the last year to seek refuge in Germany. On the German news paper above they are also saying that police are raiding various refugee centres in Berlin where this man was staying http://www.spiegel.de



> Lastly, the driver had telephoned in the afternoon around 4 pm. He had informed him that the unloading of the steel parts had been postponed to Tuesday morning. He had then parked the vehicle near the entrance to the company. Z. did not specify exactly where Z. was. Only so much: his cousin had reported that the district was "full of Muslims", the only Germans were those in the office. He was going to eat a kebab.
> 
> Z. speculated that his driver could be kidnapped along with trucks. His cousin could be the dead man found in the cab. This assumption has now been confirmed. The Polish driver sat on the passenger seat.


I'll let you catch up before you finger point. It is German news sources this information is coming from.

It is also being broadcasted the man in the passenger seat of the lorry was shot and died as a result happens to be Polish.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> News article from de Spiegel newspaper:
> 
> The above was quoted from German news sources and widely broadcasted on international news channels.
> http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-1126642.html
> ...


None of which alters the point. Closed borders would likely have done little, if anything to prevent it. Please explain how exactly it would have. Since when has closed borders prevented terrorist attacks in the UK: Canary wharf, Victoria Station, London Tube bombings etc etc.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> None of which alters the point. Closed borders would likely have done little, if anything to prevent it. Please explain how exactly it would have. Since when has closed borders prevented terrorist attacks in the UK: Canary wharf, Victoria Station, London Tube bombings etc etc.


Well Merkels open border policy to allow migrants to flow into Europe with no passports or ID is now going to come into question.

The German interior minister says "We have no doubt anymore that the incident at the Berlin Christmas market was an attack".









Regarding your comment about closed borders, because the truck was allegedly reported as being hijacked it would have been stopped at the border one would assume as it would have flagged up on a computer system as being stolen/hijacked.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> Truck was driven from Poland it seems
> so the EU "open border" policy has claimed victims...if it had been customs stopped/checked the chances are the driver would have been stopped


 Remind me again of what a 'Cockwomble' is

Cockwomble: Definition and synonym......See 'Colliebarmy' c/o PetForums. UK.:Facepalm


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Well Merkels open border policy to allow migrants to flow into Europe with no passports or ID is now going to come into question.
> 
> The German interior minister says "We have no doubt anymore that the incident at the Berlin Christmas market was an attack".
> View attachment 294164
> ...


Of course it is going to be brought into question. Any excuse will do to score political points.
Having a lorry stolen/hijacked is hardly unknown anywhere in Europe, including Germany. So tell me again, how would closed borders have prevented it? It hasn't worked to prevent terrorist attacks in the UK.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> Of course it is going to be brought into question. Any excuse will do to make core political points.
> Having a lorry stolen/hijacked is hardly unknown anywhere in Europe, including Germany. So tell me again, how would it have prevented it.


Does it matter if it could have, would have, could have possibly been stopped. It happened.

German police are now questioning if it could have been prevented.

Yes I appreciate the German's interpretated the news differently in there country because they'd hate to think this could have possibly happened in Germany from someone they allowed to walk into there country and lived amongst them.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Does it matter if it could have, would have, could have possibly been stopped. It happened.


Yep, as did terrorist bombings etc in London. Hindsight is brilliant for figuring out what to do.

If you want to fight terrorism you have to look at the source and fight the idealogy and causes. You will not prevent it when people have decided they are fanatics. You're still avoided answering how closed borders would have prevented terrorism in the UK.



> Yes I appreciate the German's interpretated the news differently in there country because they'd hate to think this could have possibly happened in Germany from someone they allowed to walk into there country and lived amongst them.


Why? Germans, especially those in the media/politicians want to score political points just as much as anyone else. It's up the responsible people to look at the news and determine their own opinions, not simply repeat media opinion and prejudices.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

..


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Zaros said:


> Remind me again of what a 'Cockwomble' is
> 
> Cockwomble: Definition and synonym......See 'Colliebarmy' c/o PetForums. UK.:Facepalm


I just seen what it means on the online dictionary (cockwomble I mean), I thought it was a made up word  :Muted


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Oh dear.
Security forces believe the Pakistani man they have in custody has nothing to do with last night's incident. They believe the man who carried out this attack is still at large and is armed. Die Welt newspaper has just reported this.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> I just seen what it means on the online dictionary (cockwomble I mean), I thought it was a made up word  :Muted


But it is a made up word. And not unlike many made up words they become more recognised/acccepted as part of our everyday language the more we use them.

A bit like ****wit or ****bubble. The former I have used on many an occasion with specific reference to CB, yet the latter will take some getting used to simply because I'm not familiar with such as of yet.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Cannot lorry be hijacked anywhere in Germany itself?
But obviously open border with Poland is to blame?

Because Islamic terrorists are traditional Polish export?

That man was the first victim. 
Possibly any lorry would have been good enough.

Might have been stolen after passing the border just as well? Driver was killed...


How many IS fighters come from Poland? How many from UK?


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

stockwellcat said:


> Well Merkels open border policy to allow migrants to flow into Europe with no passports or ID is now going to come into question.


Well it always was called into question by anyone who thought about the matter objectively. Allowing entry to a million undocumented refugees and pretend refugees from areas known for radicalisation was always going to end this way, though people who pointed this out were labelled racist by the leftie luvvies. It seems Merkel has blood on her hands today. Sad times.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Satori said:


> Well it always was called into question by anyone who thought about the matter objectively. Allowing entry to a million undocumented refugees and pretend refugees from areas known for radicalisation was always going to end this way, though people who pointed this out were labelled racist by the leftie luvvies. It seems Merkel has blood on her hands today. Sad times.


I might be in agreement with that to a point.
Please can you explain that illegal radical Islamists and legal EU citizens are two different things?
Seems some cannot see the difference.

I still cannot see how open border with Poland is the source of terrorism?
And closing it would prevent it?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Goblin said:


> Typical propaganda mouthpiece with no backing in reality. It wouldn't as they had a valid reason to travel with goods, not a bomb. If you want to start on the blame immigrants route instead, first remind me where the 7/7 bombers came from for the tube bombings in London.


Syria? Iraq?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Satori said:


> Well it always was called into question by anyone who thought about the matter objectively. Allowing entry to a million undocumented refugees and pretend refugees from areas known for radicalisation was always going to end this way, though people who pointed this out were labelled racist by the leftie luvvies. It seems Merkel has blood on her hands today. Sad times.


Heres 2000 smarties

1 is poisoned

want a smartie?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> Syria? Iraq?


Matters not where a man is born....its his connections and roots and links that forge his path

all 4 had family tree back to Pakistan, Islam, and travelled to Pakistan...if they hadnt died in the explosions they should have been shot as traitors


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> Matters not where a man is born....its his connections and roots and links that forge his path
> 
> all 4 had family tree back to Pakistan, Islam, and travelled to Pakistan...if they hadnt died in the explosions they should have been shot as traitors


Brejvik ?

So now everyone who even travelled to predominantly Muslim country is a suspect?
Bravo!!!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Satori said:


> Well it always was called into question by anyone who thought about the matter objectively. Allowing entry to a million undocumented refugees and pretend refugees from areas known for radicalisation was always going to end this way, though people who pointed this out were labelled racist by the leftie luvvies. It seems Merkel has blood on her hands today. Sad times.


It was a mistake to invite anybody in, I agree with that. However plenty of people are valid refugees and needed protection. Maybe you should look at things like https://www.thejc.com/news/world/shoah-educator-to-help-yazidis-document-their-own-tragedy-1.64402 Discord, division and hiding your head in the sand has always solved everything after all hasn't it.

Remind me again whose policies destabilised the middle east and the like by attacking Iraq due to non-existant WMDs? Far from there being blood on Merkal's hands, the only people with blood on their hands are those who commit attrocities and those who condone their actions seeking to sow division and incite hatred and prejudice.

What is the purpose of these attacks. Sure it's to cause terror but it is to cause more division and polarisation. Unfortunately I expect more attacks in the run up to the German election. Division serves terrorists purposes but seems plenty of people are happy to be pushed in that direction.



Colliebarmy said:


> Syria? Iraq?


Try UK.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

German police not sure if they got the right man.

And who killed Jo Cox? Motivated by hatred terrorist. His roots? His connections? 

Farage gloating over Merkel, point scoring...
What class! While Berlin is in mourning....

Can that slime get any lower?


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I personally think the amount of fear attacks such as this one instill is stupid. I still probably have a much greater chance of dying in a car accident or dying of natural causes such as by a heart attack. Ironically, the point of terrorist attacks is to make people afraid.

I do think there should be checking of refugees and such from others countries and quotas on the number of them allowed into the states but I don't mind refugess and immigrants.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Don't seem to remember the fear and the recriminations when the UK was under attack by the IRA. More an attitude of we will not let them win. It certainly wasn't every person who is irish is a terrorist.


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## SpringDance (Mar 18, 2016)

Good picture to make a point. (The smarties one - many x-posts)

What I realise, though, is that there will be many different answers to the question above. It's not as straight forward as 'no'. Many people (whether due to their circumstances or other reasons) will say yes without a thought and some will say 'maybe' or 'only if...'


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

No need to make bombs anymore they just steal a lorry and do as much damage as they can, very frightening they can turn up anywhere and we have no defence against them.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)




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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> I just seen what it means on the online dictionary (cockwomble I mean), I thought it was a made up word  :Muted


 What does it mean? i thought it was some type of Shakespearean insult. !


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> What does it mean? i thought it was some type of Shakespearean insult. !


*cockwomble* ‎(plural *cockwombles*) (Britain, slang, derogatory) A foolish or obnoxious person.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cockwomble

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cockwomble


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

The man that was in custody in Berlin has been released without charge.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2016)

Colliebarmy said:


> Heres 2000 smarties
> 
> 1 is poisoned
> 
> want a smartie?


Far too simplistic as an analogy.
For one, we're talking about people, not candy. Feels odd to even have to clarify that these are PEOPLE we're taking about, not things...
So, as people, a "poisoned" person has the option of becoming unpoisoned, or not applying their poison, and likewise a non poisoned person can become poisoned (like when they're treated as a thing instead of a person).


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

ouesi said:


> Far too simplistic as an analogy.
> For one, we're talking about people, not candy. Feels odd to even have to clarify that these are PEOPLE we're taking about, not things...
> So, as people, a "poisoned" person has the option of becoming unpoisoned, or not applying their poison, and likewise a non poisoned person can become poisoned (like when they're treated as a thing instead of a person).


Are you trying to confuse me, because if you are you've succeed


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2016)

Happy Paws said:


> Are you trying to confuse me, because if you are you've succeed


No, not trying to confuse anyone. 
Here, look at the context:



Satori said:


> Well it always was called into question by anyone who thought about the matter objectively. Allowing entry to a million undocumented refugees and pretend refugees from areas known for radicalisation was always going to end this way, though people who pointed this out were labelled racist by the leftie luvvies. It seems Merkel has blood on her hands today. Sad times.


To which Colliebarmie applied his smarties analogy. Likening undocumented refugees to 1000 smarties out of which one is poisoned. Thus implying that one should avoid all smarties. I'm simply pointing out that we're talking about PEOPLE, not candy, not refugees, human beings.

There is definitely room for an intelligent conversation about where displaced people should go, who can house them, and how to go about doing that in the interest of all involved. But can we please start with the premise that these are human beings we're talking about?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Calvine said:


> I doubt they condoned it @stockwellcat...condemned possibly?


Oh heck! The fooking spelling police are back! Shaking in my boots !


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

The pole polish driver was shot prior to impact, one cannot imagine what hell that poor young man went through,


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## SpringDance (Mar 18, 2016)

DT said:


> Oh heck! The fooking spelling police are back! Shaking in my boots !


TBF the spelling mistake (autocorrect) changed the meaning if the sentence entirely...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

The Germans didn't think they had got the right man, so they let him go, then they said the person, or persons who did this could still be at large, you could t make it up could you!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

ouesi said:


> No, not trying to confuse anyone.
> Here, look at the context:
> 
> To which Colliebarmie applied his smarties analogy. Likening undocumented refugees to 1000 smarties out of which one is poisoned. Thus implying that one should avoid all smarties. I'm simply pointing out that we're talking about PEOPLE, not candy, not refugees, human beings.
> ...


As were the nine dead people in Germany, they were human beings too! If a country is going to open its doors to all and sundry that I'm afraid they need to do more checks in order to keep their own citizens safe!


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

DT said:


> The pole polish driver was shot prior to impact, one cannot imagine what hell that poor young man went through,


His cousin said that the images the police showed him had stab wounds in them on his cousin's body. The police believe he was stabbed first and then shot dead. The police told him they said they believe his cousin put up a fight in the cab of the lorry which strengthens the case that the lorry was hijacked. This is what the cousin of the lorry driver revealed in an interview.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2016)

DT said:


> As were the nine dead people in Germany!


The victims of the attacks have not been compared to smarties. Do try to keep up


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SpringDance said:


> TBF the spelling mistake (autocorrect) changed the meaning if the sentence entirely...


Yep, it were me testing out my high horse not been on it for yonks, don't worry that calvine is sound


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> His cousin said that the images the police showed him had stab wounds in them on his cousin's body. The police believe he was stabbed first and then shot dead. The police told him they said they believe his cousin put up a fight in the cab of the lorry which strengthens the case that the lorry was hijacked. This is what the cousin of the lorry driver revealed in an interview.


Yep, heard that


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

ouesi said:


> The victims of the attacks have not been compared to smarties. Do try to keep up [/QUOTE
> Don't need to keep up cocka, not when I've got collie explaining it in all perfectly in smartie talk makes a whole lot more sense then listening to the self proclaimed clever folk


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Opps I cocked up above! I never said that she did!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

ouesi said:


> The victims of the attacks have not been compared to smarties. Do try to keep up


And neither should they be


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

I personally think there is a massive cover up here, this is Berlin right, they have cameras right, if the can't trace that driver they don't know where there own arses are! Someone's covering summat up here, they know damd well who was in that truck! They just think you are stupid by telling you otherwise!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

DT said:


> As were the nine dead people in Germany, they were human beings too! If a country is going to open its doors to all and sundry that I'm afraid they need to do more checks in order to keep their own citizens safe!


So how many personal rights and freedoms are you willing to give up? Come over here as a refugee or as a tourist, you are still here. Terrorists are not labelled in their passports as such. So let's expand the parameters. Restrict all of a class of people be it based on nationality or religion. Have to include anyone who may be potentially radicalised out of out own native population along the way. Wait, no longer does it have to be with a foreign background as has been seen with UK people going to Syria. So tell me, where does it stop? What's your magic formula as to how to automatically tell who is a terrorist.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> So how many personal rights and freedoms are you willing to give up? Come over here as a refugee or as a tourist, you are still here. Terrorists are not labelled in their passports as such. So let's expand the parameters. Restrict all of a class of people be it based on nationality or religion. Have to include anyone who may be potentially radicalised out of out own native population along the way. Wait, no longer does it have to be with a foreign background as has been seen with UK people going to Syria. So tell me, where does it stop? What's your magic formula as to how to automatically tell who is a terrorist.


Why do you have to twist everything anyone says? You know damd well Europe has be open to any Tom dick or Harry suicide bomber and terrorist since dumbo Merkal issued her invite that all and sundry were welcome here.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

DT said:


> I personally think there is a massive cover up here, this is Berlin right, they have cameras right, if the can't trace that driver they don't know where there own arses are! Someone's covering summat up here, they know damd well who was in that truck! They just think you are stupid by telling you otherwise!


Obviously you have no idea of the German culture regarding privacy. Let's simply say rules against surveillance are strict, probably due to experiences many had in East Germany before the fall of the wall. It's not like the UK with 1 surveillance camera for every 11 people. Interesting comparison. Cameras no, all police armed, yes. Took quite a while for me to become accustomed to seeing armed police.

While we are on the subject in general. My thoughts and condolences are with those who have suffered loss at this time. Terrorism should never be condoned.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

DT said:


> Why do you have to twist everything anyone says? You know damd well Europe has be open to any Tom dick or Harry suicide bomber and terrorist since dumbo Merkal issued her invite that all and sundry were welcome here.


So tell me, what magic formula do you have which enables you to know a terrorist to prevent them from entering a country. If not as a refugee, as a tourist whatever? That's not twisting anything. A simple question.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> My thoughts and condolences are with those who have suffered loss at this time. Terrorism should never be condoned.


Totally agree with what you said quoted above.

My thoughts are also with everyone who suffered a loss through last night's terrible incident in Berlin.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> So tell me, what magic formula do you have which enables you to know a terrorist to prevent them from entering a country. If not as a refugee, as a tourist whatever? That's not twisting anything. A simple question.


I quiet appreciate what you are saying, and sadly have to admit there is no resolution that I can even begin to think of, the problem is already here , and, sadly gaining strength, it's at times like this when innocent people die that some look for someone to blame, me I'm laying a portion of that blame at merkals door, . I suspect that you perhaps suspect me of being an ignorant racist, taking into consideration that my grandchildren are black, my best friend both polish and half German that's not so, but I do fear how gullible some have come, not everyone wishes us glad tidings.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

cheekyscrip said:


> How many IS fighters come from Poland? How many from UK?


It's not a competition 

I really don't understand the bickering on this thread. People have died and there should be respect.

Open borders could have had a hand in this (but until they find the perpetrator it's just speculation) I don't get the almost rabid defence of those open borders, but I also don't understand why you would drive a lorry all the way from Poland when you could easily hijack one in Berlin itself though, so that doesn't make sense either.

RIP poor people who died and best wishes to the injured.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

DT said:


> I quiet appreciate what you are saying, and sadly have to admit there is no resolution that I can even begin to think of, the problem is already here , and, sadly gaining strength, it's at times like this when innocent people die that some look for someone to blame, me I'm laying a portion of that blame at merkals door, . I suspect that you perhaps suspect me of being an ignorant racist, taking into consideration that my grandchildren are black, my best friend both polish and half German that's not so, but I do fear how gullible some have come, not everyone wishes us glad tidings.


The blame is at the extemists door. The only way to combat extremism is to remove the divisions which spawn it rather than pushing prejudice and the idea of them vs us. That's long term. Near term it's standing up and saying as whole, this is not acceptable and we stand together. We did it for the IRA, we didn't stab each other in the back trying to play political one upmanship.



MilleD said:


> I don't get the almost rabid defence of those open borders


So would you like to have to go through border checkpoint between Kent and Surrey? It may stop a terrorist attack after all. For many in europe that would be the equivalent.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

MilleD said:


> It's not a competition
> 
> I really don't understand the bickering on this thread. People have died and there should be respect.
> 
> ...


It's actually not that far from Berlin to the polish border, about 50 miles, it all depends on circumstances I guess.

I know the area where the it all happened as I was part of the allied choir that sang every Christmas during the 1980's in what's called the 'blue church' which is the circular building next to the ruins of the Kaiser Wilhelm church.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Goblin said:


> So would you like to have to go through border checkpoint between Kent and Surrey? It may stop a terrorist attack after all. For many in europe that would be the equivalent.


If it prevented this sort of atrocity then I wouldn't mind, no.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Islamic State (ISIS) have claimed responsibility for the attack in Berlin which doesn't surprise me.

http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-ch...-killer-on-loose-as-suspect-released-10703497

*Berlin Christmas market attack: Lorry killer on the run as IS admits crash*

Police are hunting the driver of the lorry that ploughed into a busy Christmas market in Berlin as Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attack.

The terrorist group said one of its "soldiers" carried out Monday evening's deadly crash "in response to calls for targeting citizens of the crusader coalition".

It comes as officers released without charge the only person arrested over the atrocity - a Pakistani asylum seeker.

Prosecutors said there was not enough evidence to link him to the rampage in which 12 people were killed in the German capital.

The decision to free him means the main suspect, who is believed to be armed, is still on the loose


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MilleD said:


> If it prevented this sort of atrocity then I wouldn't mind, no.


That's the point isn't it. Trucks can be stolen in Germany, especially if murder is acceptable. Unless you have a border wall you can't stop people and even then it's been shown they are porous to those who really want to get through. So what are the advatages to closed borders? The closest you have to an example is a little stretch of water called the channel, a greater barrier than a line drawn on a map. Has it stopped terrorist attacks in the UK?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> That's the point isn't it. Trucks can be stolen in Germany, especially if murder is acceptable. Unless you have a border wall you can't stop people and even then it's been shown they are porous to those who really want to get through. So what are the advatages to closed borders? The closest you have to an example is a little stretch of water called the channel, a greater barrier than a line drawn on a map. Has it stopped terrorist attacks in the UK?


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Hmmm not sure about that @stockwellcat . The UK suffered one this year with the Jo Cox murder. I believe he was born and bred in the U.K. as well...

You also have the Rigby killing as well.

Edit: seems your post went missing so mine looks really random now


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2016)

DT said:


> Don't need to keep up cocka, not when I've got collie explaining it in all perfectly in smartie talk makes a whole lot more sense then listening to the self proclaimed clever folk


Don't know if you're being facetious, but either way, yes, that's a huge part of the problem right there. 
The oversimplified, easy answers are easier to swallow, but do they really address the issue?

The reality is, there is no easy, straight forward answer to terrorism, it's a multifaceted, complex problem that will require an equally complex solution, though up by people able to see all angles and in sufficient dept. Knee-jerk reactionism might feel good and give us a false sense of having done something, but at the end of the day it's simply doing something for the sake of being able to say "we have done something about it." It doesn't really change anything.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

ouesi said:


> It doesn't really change anything.


A bit like all the talking ..............


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2016)

rona said:


> A bit like all the talking ..............


Productive talking, where all parties are interested in hearing the others and coming to a place of deeper understanding is always productive. Name calling and trite tit-for-tat "gotchas" are not


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Borders and checks across the EU are not the answer. I can see the sad result of people being targeted due to being a particular ethnic minority background.

Terrorists come in all backgrounds and skin colours.

My thoughts are with Berlin at this time.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@ouesi Like the NI Good Friday agreement , it brought some peace but hard to stomach IRA commander Martin McGuinness being Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland .


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

If we want to see terrorism diminished, we need to break barriers down, not build them up. Even if we had border restrictions going from county to county in Britain, it wouldn't stop people committing terrorism within their own county. If a refugee commits a terrorist attack, everyone starts howling for refugees to be banned. Jo Cox was killed by a British gardener...haven't heard anyone calling for all gardeners to be banned from Britain. We need to stop seeing terrorism as something that belongs to a particular nationality or ethnic origin - the ONLY people group it belongs to are terrorists!


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

CuddleMonster said:


> If we want to see terrorism diminished, we need to break barriers down, not build them up. Even if we had border restrictions going from county to county in Britain, it wouldn't stop people committing terrorism within their own county. If a refugee commits a terrorist attack, everyone starts howling for refugees to be banned. Jo Cox was killed by a British gardener...haven't heard anyone calling for all gardeners to be banned from Britain. We need to stop seeing terrorism as something that belongs to a particular nationality or ethnic origin - the ONLY people group it belongs to are terrorists!


Absolutely right! Are lone killers like in Dunblane, Hungerford and seen in the US not classed as acts of terrorism due to being carried out by "local citizens" of a white background?

If we had a system of stop and search on the day Jo Cox was murdered you can bet someone not "White British" would have been targeted who could well be a terrorist or could be a doctor on his/her way to work or a call. You can bet the man who went on to murder Jo Cox wouldn't have been stopped.

As for the Northern Ireland peace process, a wonderful achievement started by John Major. This would never have happened under Thatcher.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> Did not blame the West eh?
> View attachment 294152
> 
> And no, they do not do Boris Johnson. Putin's minions will never talk about matter of such importance if not given such orders. Read that all.
> ...


You know what I reckon?
I blame it in them that knocked off princess Diana!
The did it
Conspiracy theories all of them!


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Apparently german police are looking for a Tunisian man in relation to the attack who claimed asylum there in April.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Police have released the picture of the Tunisian man they are after. One problem, they have covered up his eyes 










http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-at...fied-as-suspect-from-truck-documents-10703902


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Islamic State (ISIS) have claimed responsibility for the attack in Berlin which doesn't surprise me


Which also means absolutely nothing - they have a policy of routinely claiming respnsibility for everything and anything that happens which remotely resembles a terrorist action. I'm sure if a high pressure water main were to burst in London (which would cause a kaboom on the level of a decent size car bomb and maybe even level a few buildings) they'd try and say it was them.

This is because a) supposedly successfu actions attract new IS recruits, and b) it creates a hostile reaction and persecution in some quarters against all muslims/people who happen to look like they _might_ me muslims, which in turn attracts new IS recruits.

This means that calls for racial profiling, crackdowns on immigrants, demonising of refugees as a potential 'trojan horse' etc. are the precise reaction they desire and basically do their recruiting work for them.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Jesthar said:


> This means that calls for racial demonising of refugees as a potential 'trojan horse' etc. are the precise reaction they desire and basically do their recruiting work for them.


I know what you are saying, but they are saying that he came in as refugee and claimed asylum so the 'Trojan horse' worry is actually true in this case?

If they have the correct person of course, I always think it's a bit strange when passports and ID cards are found after these attacks.

Edit to add, sorry @Jesthar I didn't quite quote you word for word there as I tried to delete a bit and managed to delete the middle of the sentence.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

MilleD said:


> I know what you are saying, but they are saying that he came in as refugee and claimed asylum so the 'Trojan horse' worry is actually true in this case?


Well, we don't know yet. But statistically (if memory serves), so far most terrorists are home grown. This make sense, as local recruits can move around without attracting anywhere as much suspicion.

But as far as I am concerned, IS (or Daesh as I prefer to call them) want me to come to hate muslims and non-white people on the off chance they might be terrorists, as they think this will result in an all out war against the west that will precipitate their version of armageddon (whcih is what they want). I take that as a challenge to _not_ stoop to their level, as is they only way they beat me is if they get me to hate. And I don't want to be the person whose bad treatment of someone just because of where they come from results in them becoming a terrorist.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Jesthar said:


> Well, we don't know yet. But statistically (if memory serves), so far most terrorists are home grown. This make sense, as local recruits can move around without attracting anywhere as much suspicion.


It is quite likely that the suspect was an "immigrant". Ralf Jäger, interior minister of North Rhine-Westphalia apparantly has confirmed that the suspect was supposed to be deported back to Tunisia. However the case was held up because Tunisian authorities at first refuted that he was a citizen of their country. Neccessary paperwork apparantly arrived today (Wednesday).



Jesthar said:


> But as far as I am concerned, IS (or Daesh as I prefer to call them) want me to come to hate muslims and non-white people on the off chance they might be terrorists, as they think this will result in an all out war against the west that will precipitate their version of armageddon (whcih is what they want). I take that as a challenge to _not_ stoop to their level, as is they only way they beat me is if they get me to hate. And I don't want to be the person whose bad treatment of someone just because of where they come from results in them becoming a terrorist.


http://www.thelocal.de/20161221/refugees-and-berliners-sing-together-against-hate-at-attack-site


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Berlin truck attack: Police hunt for Tunisian suspect - BBC News

The latest, I hope they catch him.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I do hope they find out who did this.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

Can't help thinking that the best way of preventing asylum seekers becoming radicalised would be for the government to put more effort into helping them integrate. Or at least not interfere with those who ARE doing this. Where I lived before, I volunteered with a group that tried to befriend refugees and help them feel at home in their new area. We had THREE cases of single young men who had been living in one town or city for 6 months or so and who were suddenly ordered to move to a different town or city a long way away (until they are granted leave to remain, they are under a lot of restrictions and have to live where the government says they must). This was in spite of strong protests & representation from the British people who had befriended them and who were prepared to offer them a lot of free help and support if they remained. 

These young men were dumped in bedsits in houses that contained only other asylum seekers in areas where they knew no one. They were given no help in accessing English classes or anything else that might have helped them to make friends with local people. Fortunately, in each case, we were able to put them in touch with local volunteer groups who could offer support. But I do wonder how many others are left in similar situations, but having no one who can offer this kind of help. Isolated, friendless, knowing little English and often traumatised by past experiences, they must be sitting ducks for anyone who wants to radicalise them. "See, these British people don't care about you, but WE will befriend you."


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

There was a stabbing incident at Belfast Christmas Market last night, no one has been arrested yet. The man that was stabbed is in a critical condition. Northern Irish Police are appealing for witnesses.

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/new...d-in-donegall-square-north-area-35313133.html


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

He stabbed himself? Confusing article which may have changed since you originally posted it.

On a different note, the spat between Jo Cox's husband and Farage is getting more vocal. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/22/nigel-farage-hope-not-hate-brendan-cox
One thing I would change..


> So if you are horrified by the rise of the far right, whether that be rightwing populists or more traditional fascists, then we urge everyone to do what they can to support those, like ourselves, who want to protect communities from further division and hatred.


Rise of the far right shouldn't simply be "right", rise of extremism no matter which direction it is only causes division and hatred.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

So sorry for the victims of this terrible atrocity. Really hope they catch the perpetrator soon.

As for that odious hatemonger Farage, there is a crowd funder to take him to court if he does not publicly retract his unfounded lies about Hope not Hate. I'm considering chipping in to this. https://donate.hopenothate.org.uk/page/contribute/farage-to-court

Nigel Farage's attack on Jo Cox's widower is a new low. Enough. Take back control from this poison. Owen Jones: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...age-jo-cox-widower-treason-racism-intolerance

,,,


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Owen Jones nailing it once again.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> He stabbed himself? Confusing article which may have changed since you originally posted it.


 The article had been updated since I posted it. Just re-read it and it is now a very confusing article.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

..


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

It has been confirmed through Italian media the suspect was shot dead in a shoot out in Milan shortly after 3am local time today with Italian police. The Italian interior minister is going to hold a news conference shortly. His ID has been confirmed via finger prints at the scene (as he had no ID on him) and it is the suspect from the Berlin Christmas Market Attack.










I feel very sorry for the victims of the Christmas Market Terror Attack and there relatives whom all my thoughts are with at the moment.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

stockwellcat said:


> It has been confirmed through Italian media the suspect was shot dead in a shoot out in Milan shortly after 3am local time today with Italian police. The Italian interior minister is going to hold a news conference shortly. His ID has been confirmed via finger prints at the scene (as he had no ID on him) and it is the suspect from the Berlin Christmas Market Attack.





stockwellcat said:


> It has been confirmed through Italian media the suspect was shot dead in a shoot out in Milan shortly after 3am local time today with Italian police. The Italian interior minister is going to hold a news conference shortly. His ID has been confirmed via finger prints at the scene (as he had no ID on him) and it is the suspect from the Berlin Christmas Market Attack.


This is the report in the Express stockwellcat.

BERLIN ATTACKER DEAD: Anis Amri 'killed in shootout in Milan' | World | News | Daily Express


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

So this guy still managed to travel across several countries before being found even though he'd carried out an atrocity? 

I'm pleased they found him though


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Well done to the Italian police, no pussy footing around on their watch!
Scum bag terrorist is brown bread.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

rona said:


> So this guy still managed to travel across several countries before being found even though he'd carried out an atrocity?


Your point rona? The channel is a far better border than would be possible within the mainland. People still cross that border without being caught.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Your point rona? The channel is a far better border than would be possible within the mainland. People still cross that border without being caught.


The German police actually cocked that up good and proper. Didn't they waste two days interrogating the wrong man? Didn't even check the crime scene by the sound of it! And they say we are SAFER in the EU! Yeah right, Wonder which crankie made that one up?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

DT said:


> The German police actually cocked that up good and proper. Didn't they waste two days interrogating the wrong man? Didn't even check the crime scene by the sound of it! And they say we are SAFER in the EU! Yeah right, Wonder which crankie made that one up?


I think the biggest cock up the German police had was the guy was on there terror watch list and was allowed to stay in Germany knowing he had several identities and nationalities as well. But as Goblin will no doubt say how could they know he was going to do this, even though there where plenty of red flags on this guy.

Again a failure of having open borders as he managed to go through numerous countries unchecked, but good on Italian police for getting him, but it was only pure luck they got him because otherwise be may have been long gone out of Europe today if they didn't.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> I think the biggest cock up the German police had was the guy was on there terror watch list and was allowed to stay in Germany knowing he had several identities and nationalities as well. But as Goblin will no doubt say how could they know he was going to do this even though there where plenty of red flags on this guy.
> 
> Again a failure of having open borders, but good on Italian police for getting him.


Actually, they were trying to deport him. Unfortunately they couldn't as they had no proof he was Tunisian and the tunisian government refused to accept it. This was a failure. There have been quite a few and lessons should be learned. Open borders within the EU is not one of those failures.

So tell me Stockwellcat, at what point do human rights become something we should abandon? Personally I approve of "innocent until proven guilty".


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> I think the biggest cock up the German police had was the guy was on there terror watch list and was allowed to stay in Germany knowing he had several identities and nationalities as well. But as Goblin will no doubt say how could they know he was going to do this, even though there where plenty of red flags on this guy.
> 
> Again a failure of having open borders as he managed to go through numerous countries unchecked, but good on Italian police for getting him, but it was only pure luck they got him because otherwise be may have been long gone out of Europe today if they didn't.


And don't forget the had tried to deport him, but he had won his case yo remain based on his yes his human rights. Ironic isn't it, one has to give thought to those poor families who have just lost their loved ones because some idiot in a suit supported by a bunch of lefties tree hugging loons in rose coloured specs allowed tha scum to have rights!
But yes Stockwell. No one knew he would do that, anyone could have done it will be echoing around the forum soon.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Actually, they were trying to deport him. Unfortunately they couldn't as they had no proof he was Tunisian and the tunisian government refused to accept it. This was a failure. There have been quite a few and lessons should be learned. Open borders within the EU is not one of those failures.
> 
> So tell me Stockwellcat, at what point do human rights become something we should abandon? Personally I approve of "innocent until proven guilty".


I think you'll find he appealed on humane grounds against being deported, there is a vast difference in how you have said that!

And no, I cannot produce paper evidence to support my claim, but it was on the local news, so apologies in advance if my local news have got the story wrong.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

So DT, are you suggesting we get rid of human rights. You dissaprove of those same human rights laws where children can and have taken abusers to court, where pensioners have themselves. Where common people have the ability to hold those in power from abusing their positions?



DT said:


> I think you'll find he appealed on humane grounds against being deported, there is a vast difference in how you have said that!
> 
> And no, I cannot produce paper evidence to support my claim, but it was on the local news, so apologies in advance if my local news have got the story wrong.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...w-suspected-berlin-christmas-market-attacker/


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Actually, they were trying to deport him. Unfortunately they couldn't as they had no proof he was Tunisian and the tunisian government refused to accept it. This was a failure. There have been quite a few and lessons should be learned. Open borders within the EU is not one of those failures.
> 
> So tell me Stockwellcat, at what point do human rights become something we should abandon? Personally I approve of "innocent until proven guilty".


awh! Innocent until proven Guilty!
Who can afford the best lawyer!
Case dismissed on a technicality


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> Actually, they were trying to deport him. Unfortunately they couldn't as they had no proof he was Tunisian and the tunisian government refused to accept it. This was a failure. There have been quite a few and lessons should be learned. Open borders within the EU is not one of those failures. Even Merkel has admitted they need to speed up the deportation of failed asylum seekers in Germany.
> 
> So tell me Stockwellcat, at what point do human rights become something we should abandon? Personally I approve of "innocent until proven guilty".


Failed asylum seeker, detention centre awaiting deportation springs to mind. I know you say they couldn't prove he was Tunisian but his mum came forward, she could have proved his nationality although I know she has completely disowned him. He was far from inicent they found one of his many ID papers in the lorry he used to kill innocent people and confirmed his ID in Italy via finger prints.

Praise must be given to the European arrest warrant scheme otherwise Italy would never have known.

But it was pure chance he was stopped by police and he opened fired on them, he could have been long gone out of Europe today and back in the hands of ISIS who would have glorified him for this, but they have glorified him any way by releasing a video of him today.

http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-at...allegiance-to-islamic-state-in-video-10706087

I feel sorry for his mum and those victims and there relatives who have had to go through this terrible attack and it's aftermath.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> So DT, are you suggesting we get rid of human rights. You dissaprove of those same human rights laws where children can and have taken abusers to court, where pensioners have themselves. Where common people have the ability to hold those in power from abusing their positions?


We won't get rid of Human Rights, this is totally separate from leaving the EU. Human Rights is an international agreement. The British Bill of Rights may never come to fruition it is just hot air being blown around at the moment if this is what you are thinking of.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Open borders within the EU is not one of those failures".


Oh right! So there have been no talks in the eu then, have tusk and drunker been having a wee chin wag maybe?
Awh, must be a rumour! But it could be done in three months, restrictions of free movement between , certain, borders that is!
admit again no solid evidence, but sorta think in this instance, there's a fire roaring somewhere, and that smoke we Are seeing is real.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> So DT, are you suggesting we get rid of human rights. You dissaprove of those same human rights laws where children can and have taken abusers to court, where pensioners have themselves. Where common people have the ability to hold those in power from abusing their positions?
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...w-suspected-berlin-christmas-market-attacker/


No! I suggest we adopt a little more common sense! And there you go again twisting words! What the hell have children who have been abused, got in common with terrorists ,who let me add was on the police alert register,


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> We won't get rid of Human Rights, this is totally separate from leaving the EU. Human Rights is an international agreement.


Innocent until proven guilty is a fundamental human right at a global, not simply EU level.



stockwellcat said:


> But as Goblin will no doubt say how could they know he was going to do this, even though there where plenty of red flags on this guy.





DT said:


> What the hell have children who have been abused, got in common with terrorists ,who let me add was on the police alert register,


All part of human rights applicable to all with no exceptions.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

I prefer an eye for an eye myself.

And just for the record goblin, those people in Berlin they should have human rights too!
But someone, just like you, took that away from them the day they allowed that terrorist his human right!


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> Innocent until proven guilty is a fundamental human right at a global, not simply EU level.
> 
> All part of human rights applicable to all with no exceptions.


Tell me then in your view how he is innocent making a video swearing an allegence to ISIS?

So human rights don't apply to the victims of a terrorist incident but do to the terrorist who carried out the attack?

He shot at police first, they responded by shooting him dead. Human rights don't come into this scenario.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Innocent until proven guilty is a fundamental human right at a global, not simply EU level.
> 
> All part of human rights applicable to all with no exceptions.


You go tell the woman living in Indian , one on the tens of thousands who are raped each year about their fundamental human rights,
Global my arsehole


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Tell me then in your view how he is innocent making a video swearing an allegence to ISIS?
> 
> So human rights don't apply to the victims of a terrorist incident but do to the terrorist.


Oh please Stockwell give it a rest, you know as well I do goblin will find one, if he can't do that he'll make one up


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Tell me then in your view how he is innocent making a video swearing an allegence to ISIS?
> 
> So human rights don't apply to the victims of a terrorist incident but do to the terrorist who carried out the attack?
> 
> He shot at police first, they responded by shooting him dead. Human rights don't come into this scenario.


Sounds about right, reckon that's what they are batting towards X
I'm changing my tactics now Stockwell lol


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

DT said:


> *Oh please Stockwell give it a rest,* you know as well I do goblin will find one, if he can't do that he'll make one up


I know.
I will give it a rest if you do  
Back to plucking your turkey


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> I know.
> I will give it a rest if you do
> Back to plucking your turkey


Erm! Could be a slight problem there!

It's still walking around the garden:Artist


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

DT said:


> Erm! Could be a slight problem there!
> 
> It's still walking around the garden:Artist


Wow that is fresh turkey then.

Does it look like this by any chance


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Even turkeys have rights you know! Remember that when sitting down to your Christmas dinner


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Wow that is fresh turkey then.
> 
> Does it look like this by any chance
> View attachment 294522


Don't be silly!
That's a cock!


----------



## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

Heard someone on the radio yesterday saying that the German attacks proved it was wrong to allow refugees into the country because we don't know if they are genuine or not. And this was RIGHT after they had been talking about this guy being a) a failed asylum seeker b) someone who had previously lived in Italy, c)someone who had a criminal record and had spent time in prison for crimes committed in Italy and d) someone who had been under surveillance as a possible terrorist threat. Don't see how allowing someone you *know* isn't genuine to remain is 'proof' that you shouldn't allow people who* might not* be genuine to remain.

I reckon the only thing it proves is that if you have a known criminal with known terrorist links who has had his asylum application rejected, it's a really bad idea to allow him to keep wandering round your country and not to stick him in a detention centre until he can be deported. And if you don't have the right documentation, then put him somewhere where he can't cause a problem until you do have it.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

CuddleMonster said:


> Heard someone on the radio yesterday saying that the German attacks proved it was wrong to allow refugees into the country because we don't know if they are genuine or not. And this was RIGHT after they had been talking about this guy being a) a failed asylum seeker b) someone who had previously lived in Italy, c)someone who had a criminal record and had spent time in prison for crimes committed in Italy and d) someone who had been under surveillance as a possible terrorist threat. Don't see how allowing someone you *know* isn't genuine to remain is 'proof' that you shouldn't allow people who* might not* be genuine to remain.
> 
> I reckon the only thing it proves is that if you have a known criminal with known terrorist links who has had his asylum application rejected, it's a really bad idea to allow him to keep wandering round your country and not to stick him in a detention centre until he can be deported. And if you don't have the right documentation, then put him somewhere where he can't cause a problem until you do have it.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

CuddleMonster said:


> Heard someone on the radio yesterday saying that the German attacks proved it was wrong to allow refugees into the country because we don't know if they are genuine or not. And this was RIGHT after they had been talking about this guy being a) a failed asylum seeker b) someone who had previously lived in Italy, c)someone who had a criminal record and had spent time in prison for crimes committed in Italy and d) someone who had been under surveillance as a possible terrorist threat. Don't see how allowing someone you *know* isn't genuine to remain is 'proof' that you shouldn't allow people who* might not* be genuine to remain.
> 
> I reckon the only thing it proves is that if you have a known criminal with known terrorist links who has had his asylum application rejected, it's a really bad idea to allow him to keep wandering round your country and not to stick him in a detention centre until he can be deported. And if you don't have the right documentation, then put him somewhere where he can't cause a problem until you do have it.


I totally agree with you @CuddleMonster

This poor police office took a bullet fired from the one that carried out the attack in Berlin. In my opinion the police took the action necessary to neutralise the guy before he could do anything else, he wasn't exactly going to surrender was he, his actions where hostile.

http://news.sky.com/story/how-was-b...attacker-able-to-cross-three-borders-10706430








There is alot of lessons for the German authorities to learn from this incident as there was alot of failures on there behalf and I won't go into them as I have mentioned them before and others have mentioned them as well. There is also the open borders policy that should now be questioned as well because he managed to travel across two countries unchecked even though there was a European arrest warrant out on him.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

CuddleMonster said:


> Heard someone on the radio yesterday saying that the German attacks proved it was wrong to allow refugees into the country because we don't know if they are genuine or not. And this was RIGHT after they had been talking about this guy being a) a failed asylum seeker b) someone who had previously lived in Italy, c)someone who had a criminal record and had spent time in prison for crimes committed in Italy and d) someone who had been under surveillance as a possible terrorist threat. Don't see how allowing someone you *know* isn't genuine to remain is 'proof' that you shouldn't allow people who* might not* be genuine to remain.
> 
> I reckon the only thing it proves is that if you have a known criminal with known terrorist links who has had his asylum application rejected, it's a really bad idea to allow him to keep wandering round your country and not to stick him in a detention centre until he can be deported. And if you don't have the right documentation, then put him somewhere where he can't cause a problem until you do have it.


In addition to all you have mentioned above, @CuddleMonster , as far as I can see, the killer had already used about SIX different aliases to get around Europe...(open borders).


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

One thing: We do not have open border here but it is incredibly easy to cross it. You show your passport and off you go.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> One thing: We do not have open border here but it is incredibly easy to cross it. You show your passport and off you go.


Well if he had to show ID of any type it is evident he would have fired a gun at someone. The UK and Gibraltar is better off out of the Schegen zone (free movement zone) don't you think?


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Nigel Farage says Schengen zone must go after Berlin terrorist shot dead in Italy | Politics | News | Daily Express

Good on yer Nige, and he's not the only one.

'Berlin attacker PROVED Schengen is SECURITY CATASTROPHE' Le Pen blasts free movement | UK | News | Daily Express


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

..


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> Well if he had to show ID of any type it is evident he would have fired a gun at someone. The UK and Gibraltar is better off out of the Schegen zone (free movement zone) don't you think?


No. Too many hours in the queue in boiling hot car.
Wish there was open frontier. In my experience anyone can come in on the boat. Are they all searched? No.
Same goes for Britain. Easier to control land border...but water? Anything that floats...how easy to hide extra people on the boat?


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> No. Too many hours in the queue in boiling hot car.
> Wish there was open frontier. In my experience anyone can come in on the boat. Are they all searched? No.


What makes you think then being in the Schegen Zone will achieve? It is evident that terrorists can freely escape. You do know that it was only by chance this man was stopped and killed, he may well have been committing further autrosities in another European country or in the hands of ISIS if he left European soil. It was only chance nothing else. With closed borders passports and ID can be checked and patrol ships around that countries territorial waters intercepting anyone trying to break in. I would say it is worth a few hours wait at that countries border to be checked. But I know you disagree with this and that's where we'll have to agree to disagree.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> What makes you think then being in the Schegen Zone will achieve? It is evident that terrorists can freely escape. You do know that it was only by chance this man was stopped and killed, he may well have been committing further autrosities in another European country or in the hands of ISIS if he left European soil. It was only chance nothing else. With closed borders passports and ID can be checked and patrol ships around that countries territorial waters intercepting anyone trying to break in. I would say it is worth a few hours wait at that countries border to be checked. But I know you disagree with this and that's where we'll have to agree to disagree.


Have you ever been sailing?
Or mountain walking? 
Frontiers are nothing.
Ask smugglers.

In this case police wasted time on wrong man. Too long. Giving a chance to get away. Easy to have extra ID an change your appearance.
He was careless. That is all.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Plus cannot understand how then attack in neutral Switzerland was possible? Closed frontiers?

Because closed frontier causes lots if delays and affects trade and tourism, but does little for crime prevention.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

So Stockwellcat and DT. You could almost be writers for the daily mail in your attitudes. Please explain to me how closing the borders would work. Long walls guarded by mines and troops or simple checkpoints which could easily be bypassed?

Let's not forget the actual real lorry driver, you know the one murdered. That "foreigner" who took advantage of open borders for a living. This is a driver who despite being beaten up severely appears to have wrestled with the terrorist before being fatally shot during the attack. This may well have saved countless lives at the market but he doesn't matter to you. Let's focus on the terrorist, let's push the political nationalist agenda, fear and division. Let's push to deny human rights when it is convenient.

https://www.rt.com/news/371499-polish-driver-attack-award/


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> Plus cannot understand how then attack in neutral Switzerland was possible? Closed frontiers?
> 
> Because closed frontier causes lots if delays and affects trade and tourism, but does little for crime prevention.


Former UK counter terrorism chief said that the open borders in Europe are a threat to the UK. He said that Europe needs to get a grip on the open borders as ISIS are taking advantage of the open borders - Schegen Zone and are able to carry out attacks and hours later they have fled to another country.

The Paris attacker fled from France to Belgium.

The German attacker fled through 3 borders, 2 countries (Germany, France and Italy) unchecked, there was a warrant out for his arrest, he would have been stopped at the border if there was borders, you know that but you are in total denial that the open borders are being exploited by ISIS.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Goblin said:


> So Stockwellcat and DT. You could almost be writers for the daily mail in your attitudes. Please explain to me how closing the borders would work. Long walls guarded by mines and troops or simple checkpoints which could easily be bypassed?
> 
> Let's not forget the actual real lorry driver, you know the one murdered. That "foreigner" who took advantage of open borders for a living. This is a driver who despite being beaten up severely appears to have wrestled with the terrorist before being fatally shot during the attack. This may well have saved countless lives at the market but he doesn't matter to you. Let's focus on the terrorist, let's push the political nationalist agenda, fear and division. Let's push to deny human rights when it is convenient.
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/371499-polish-driver-attack-award/


You keep banging on about human rights. When does human rights come into the scenario when he fired shots at police officers in Italy, wounding one. The police responded within the law and fired back. It just so happens that he was killed. He had no intention of surrendering.

Merkels response yesterday was pathetic to say the least. France closed its borders down and enforced emergency terrorism laws across France when they where last attacked.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

I'll bid you a Merry Christmas @Goblin.

I will not be posting anymore until after Christmas as I have things to do to get ready for Christmas.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Goblin said:


> So Stockwellcat and DT. You could almost be writers for the daily mail in your attitudes. Please explain to me how closing the borders would work. Long walls guarded by mines and troops or simple checkpoints which could easily be bypassed?
> 
> Let's not forget the actual real lorry driver, you know the one murdered. That "foreigner" who took advantage of open borders for a living. This is a driver who despite being beaten up severely appears to have wrestled with the terrorist before being fatally shot during the attack. This may well have saved countless lives at the market but he doesn't matter to you. Let's focus on the terrorist, let's push the political nationalist agenda, fear and division. Let's push to deny human rights when it is convenient.
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/371499-polish-driver-attack-award/


That's a bit low, no-one has said they don't care about the driver.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> Former UK counter terrorism chief said that the open borders in Europe are a threat to the UK. He said that Europe needs to get a grip on the open borders as ISIS are taking advantage of the open borders - Schegen Zone and are able to carry out attacks and hours later they have fled to another country.
> 
> The Paris attacker fled from France to Belgium.
> 
> The German attacker fled through 3 borders, 2 countries (Germany, France and Italy) unchecked, there was a warrant out for his arrest, he would have been stopped at the border if there was borders, you know that but you are in total denial that the open borders are being exploited by ISIS.


Of course he would have walked into checkpoint with the real ID and no attempt to alter his appearance and very alert staff would pass his ID through checks not just wave him to walk on....
He would not cross through the mountains , forests or water...rivers, sea..

Years ago communists thought they protect the borders very well. Even then if there was a will there was a way...
And you will not even match Iron Curtain , dream on...

Remeber Van Trapp family? Actually it is true story not just musical.
Have you ever walked in the mountains?
If you get into wrong country by mistake nothing happens and if in need or danger you are supposed to go to the nearest shelter / mountain rescue etc ...


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MilleD said:


> That's a bit low, no-one has said they don't care about the driver.


No it's not. All we hear from certain people is about these foreigners who commit crimes and the open borders which allow them to do bad things. The majority who use open borders and do good things are sidelined as it doesn't fit the nationalistic, anti-foreigner political push. People make a martyr out of a criminal and ignore the hero.



stockwellcat said:


> Former UK counter terrorism chief said that the open borders in Europe are a threat to the UK. He said that Europe needs to get a grip on the open borders as ISIS are taking advantage of the open borders - Schegen Zone and are able to carry out attacks and hours later they have fled to another country.


So just how are border control supposed to stop them?



> he would have been stopped at the border if there was borders


No he would have simply bypassed them.



> you know that but you are in total denial that the open borders are being exploited by ISIS.


No it's exploited by thousands every day to the benefit of many, not simply terrorists but those with valid reasons enhancing not just things like movement and trade but also cultural understanding and communities.

We don't need knee jerk reactions primed by political agendas of people like Farage. Let's face a simple fact.. do you want me to find a newpaper story about a coach crash killing more people than this terrorist attack? Should we all jump and scream and say "close the roads we'll prevent it in future"? Lessons are needing to be learned, screaming about things which are of benefit to many because of the terrible actions of a minority isn't one of them.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

'Border controls would have stopped him!' _Really_?

People have managed to regularly escape from the most brutally oppressive regimes in history with arrest warrents out on them - Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia (which made Nazi Germany look like third rate schoolyard bullies in comparison), East Germany, North Korea, Cuba etc. And that's just regular folk, not including people who do such things for a living, like spies and smugglers.

This chap, given that he doesn't appear to have been the of the suicidal variety or terrorist, probably had a detailed escape plan worked out in advance on the off chance he managerd to survive the initial incident - tickets pre-bought, image changes made etc. And that's even if he travelled by 'official' routes - there are plenty of unofficial ways to cross borders, as has been mentioned. Heck, at the extreme end of the spectrum an entire German _Army_ managed to bypass the defended sections of the French border in their entirety in 1940, tanks and all.

Plus, of course, we only ever hear about the incidents that actually happen. We very rarely get to hear much about incidents which were stopped before they happened, though that scenarion is far more common than a successful attack. So why on earth does anyone think putting every country in Europe on total movement lockdown help?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Goblin said:


> No it's not. All we hear from certain people is about these foreigners who commit crimes and the open borders which allow them to do bad things. The majority who use open borders and do good things are sidelined as it doesn't fit the nationalistic, anti-foreigner political push. People make a martyr out of a criminal and ignore the hero.


Yes it _is_ a low blow . What "certain people " ? you mean here on this thread or in real life.? 
I believe we are talking about terrorists , but anyone can commit crimes, anyone of any nationality and that would include British people. Discussing that open borders makes it easier for criminals doesn't mean that anyone thinks all "forriners" are criminals.

Why make it easy for terrorists? Perhaps it wont stop all of them but some might not make it or some might get caught , any plan foiled or any one caught could mean less
attacks.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Goblin said:


> All we hear from certain people is about these foreigners who commit crimes and the open borders which allow them to do bad things.


It's not all they say it's all you pick up on


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

A crowdfunding appeal set up to help the family of the Polish driver who died in the Berlin terror attack has now passed £110,000.

The fund was started by British trucker Dave Duncan from Otley, West Yorkshire and almost 7000 people have donated already.

Donate here .

https://www.gofundme.com/van9vwuk


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> A crowdfunding appeal set up to help the family of the Polish driver who died in the Berlin terror attack has now passed £110,000.
> 
> The fund was started by British trucker Dave Duncan from Otley, West Yorkshire and almost 7000 people have donated already.
> 
> ...


This is a really nice thing to do.
I have donated.


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

rona said:


> It's not all they say it's all you pick up on


Sadly, it *is* all some people say. I know someone who wrote a long FB post after the Paris attacks in which she used Muslim, terrorist and refugee interchangeably - when I pointed this out, she said that the reason she used the terms interchangeably was because they all meant the same thing...so sad, and inaccurate too, as many refugees are fleeing terrorism, many Muslims are horrified by what is being done in the name of their religion and some terrorists have even been white British people!


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@CuddleMonster yes I can imagine and that's very sad but has anyone suggested here in this thread that they didn't care about the Polish man that was murdered or that all non british people are criminals or bad?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

CuddleMonster said:


> Sadly, it *is* all some people say. I know someone who wrote a long FB post after the Paris attacks in which she used Muslim, terrorist and refugee interchangeably - when I pointed this out, she said that the reason she used the terms interchangeably was because they all meant the same thing...so sad, and inaccurate too, as many refugees are fleeing terrorism, many Muslims are horrified by what is being done in the name of their religion and some terrorists have even been white British people!


One of my sisters is the same, and I had to point out to her just the other day, how unfair and silly she was to view things in such a narrow way.
I haven't seen anyone on here be anywhere near as closed minded or judgemental.

I hear extreme views quite often from her, and to be honest I'm embarrassed by her. I know she wouldn't act on it, so it's all words but I'm well aware that she could wind up others to take some form of action

Viewing things from the other side in just such a narrow way helps no one either


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

I do believe hard border checks would in apprehending these people when they flee after doing these atrocities. Yes it won't stop them every time and some will always find a way but if it helps catch a small percentage then it's worth it. You can still have freedom of movement with hard borders.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Let's not forget the actual real lorry driver, you know the one murdered. That "foreigner" who took advantage of open borders for a living. This is a driver who despite being beaten up severely appears to have wrestled with the terrorist before being fatally shot during the attack.
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/371499-polish-driver-attack-award/


Don't you dare assume you can translate my thoughts! Who the hell do you think you are, whatever possesses you to have even have the nerve to believe you can even assume you know what my thoughts are! And somewhere on here you may Find what I said regarding the hell that poor driver went through, and what his family are now!
Perhaps you should consider how the families of terrorists victims feel when loved ones have been cruelly taken away, but until you have Walked in their shoes you will never know!
For starters Ask lee rigby s family what they think!
Would be interested to learn what Poland are actually saying about this seeing as the polish don't want these people there!
My polish friend actually said to me some time back, you English are stupid, we, the polish will always have our country because our leaders will never let happen in Poland what is happening here! That friend, who has every right to vote by the way voted out!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> This is a really nice thing to do.
> I have donated.


and I shall too,


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

kimthecat said:


> @CuddleMonster yes I can imagine and that's very sad but has anyone suggested here in this thread that they didn't care about the Polish man that was murdered or that all non british people are criminals or bad?


Yes. It was says though mist of those comments are deleted. Mine objecting to it are still there.
Driver died fighting trying to stop the attack. Wounded the terrorist.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> Yes. It was says though mist of those comments are deleted. Mine objecting to it are still there.
> Driver died fighting trying to stop the attack. Wounded the terrorist.


Where did you get that the terrorist was wounded. The terrorist stabbed the lorry driver and the terrorist shot the lorry driver dead. I feel sorry for the lorry driver, his family, those that died, those that where injured and there families.


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Italian politicians call for scrapping of Schengen visa amid war claims | World | News | Daily Express


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

DT said:


> Don't you dare assume you can translate my thoughts! Who the hell do you think you are, whatever possesses to to have to nerve to believe you can even assume you know what my thoughts are! And somewhere on here you may Find what I said regarding the hell that poor driver went through, and what his family are now!
> Perhaps you should consider how the families of terrorists victims feel when loved ones have been cruelly taken away, but until you have Walked in their shoes you will never know!
> For starters Ask lee rigby s family what they think!
> Would be interested to learn what Poland are actually saying about this seeing as the polish don't want these people there!
> My polish friend actually said to me some time back, you English are stupid, we, the polish will always have our country because our leaders will never let happen in Poland what is happening here! That friend, who has every right to vote by the way voted out!


Situation in Poland since ultra right populist government took over is tragic.
No idea who your friends are DT, but I am truly worried about both my countries.
Took part in Black Protest etc.








Polish PM and President are puppets in Kaczynski's hands.
He just hates Tusk, his political rival and very good PM.
Now he wants dictatorship.
Yes ...look at Poland...
Is it the way you want Britain to go?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> Situation in Poland since ultra right populist government took over is tragic.
> No idea who your friends are DT, but I am truly worried about both my countries.
> Took part in Black Protest etc.
> View attachment 294884
> ...


Lol , I have a few, but that partular one is 72 years old, she's the image of Elizabeth taylor looks 50 is everyone darling and the nicest person I know, she's am true animal lover, if I told you some of her antics you would be in stitches, think I may have told noush, I've got a picture of us somewhere, I'll see if I can find it xx


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

ps cheeky, have a wonderful Christmas by the way x


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

DT said:


> ps cheeky, have a wonderful Christmas by the way x


I agree have a nice Christmas @cheekyscrip x


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

DT said:


> ps cheeky, have a wonderful Christmas by the way x


And you too...I am just recovering from bad flu..but by Boxing Day must be ready for Polar Swim.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> I agree have a nice Christmas @cheekyscrip x


And you too!
But after that back into our trenches...right?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Have a nice Christmas @DT, @Satori, @Honeys mum, @MilleD @Lurcherlad, @KittenKong, @Zaros, @FeelTheBern, @Happy Paws and @kimthecat.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> And you too!
> But after that back into our trenches...right?


Hurray Christmas Truce 2016. 









Back in the trenches afterwards 

Hope you make a full recovery soon @cheekyscrip? I too am unwell. Temperature and chesty cough, came on suddenly yesterday and didn't get any sleep last night as I was coughing all night long.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> And you too!
> But after that back into our trenches...right?


Christmas Day we Brits always come out of the trenches, even if only to play football x


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Hurray Christmas Truce 2016.
> View attachment 294892
> 
> 
> ...


Same back with bells in, and extending it to everyone contributing to pet forums 
Everyone xxx including that little goblin fella special kiss for you gobby

And get better soon cheeky xxxxx


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

DT said:


> Christmas Day we Brits always come out of the trenches, even if only to play football x


We have to have Christmas dinner first 

What you said above reminds me of this advert:


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> Hurray Christmas Truce 2016.
> View attachment 294892
> 
> 
> ...


Poor you. Man flu ( if you a male?).
Lots of hot drinks.Mucodyne. Cut onion next to bed.
Warm bath. Spicy food. Ginger. Cinnamon.
Bit of cognac.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> Lots of hot drinks.Mucodyne. Cut onion next to bed.
> Warm bath. Spicy food. Ginger. Cinnamon.
> Bit of cognac.


Nah.

Paracetamol and lemsips and hot drinks and a sleeping tablet tonight.

Had a large brandy earlier with lemonade.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> Nah.
> 
> Paracetamol and lemsips and hot drinks and a sleeping tablet tonight.
> 
> Had a large brandy earlier with lemonade.


What a criminal waste of brandy!!!
Barbarian!


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> What a criminal waste of brandy!!!
> Barbarian!


I would have had cola but forgot to get it with shopping and haven't got the energy to go to the shops


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Right I am off now to try and recover slightly for tomorrow.

Have a lovely Christmas day everyone even @Goblin and @noushka05.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> I would have had cola but forgot to get it with shopping and haven't got the energy to go to the shops


Neat!!! Or on Christmas pud. Or as a part of salsa rosa.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

stockwellcat said:


> Right I am off now to try and recover slightly for tomorrow.
> 
> Have a lovely Christmas day everyone even @Goblin and @noushka05.


@stockwellcat mixed their meds with their medicinal brandy...


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Oh..and @Satori Merry Christmas to you too even if you are a Buddhist ..


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

cheekyscrip said:


> Oh..and @Satori Merry Christmas to you too even if you are a Buddhist ..


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

stockwellcat said:


> Have a nice Christmas @DT, @Satori, @Honeys mum, @MilleD @Lurcherlad, @KittenKong, and @kimthecat.


Thankyou stockwellcat, Have a lovely Christmas yourself, and everyone else of course. Those of you who are not well, hope you are feeling better today.xx


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Honeys mum said:


> Nigel Farage says Schengen zone must go after Berlin terrorist shot dead in Italy | Politics | News | Daily Express
> 
> Good on yer Nige, and he's not the only one.
> 
> 'Berlin attacker PROVED Schengen is SECURITY CATASTROPHE' Le Pen blasts free movement | UK | News | Daily Express


Farage & Le Pen are both nasty opportunists.

Can you see a correlation between Schengen and terrorist related deaths @Honeys mum ? Neither do I.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> Farage & Le Pen are both nasty opportunists.
> 
> Can you see a correlation between Schengen and terrorist related deaths @Honeys mum ? Neither do I.
> 
> View attachment 295536


I am disappointed you left Netherlands Geert Wilders out of the link. You could have made a trio


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> I am disappointed you left Netherlands Geert Wilders out of the link. You could have made a trio


Yeah another racist low life opportunist. I was responding to HM's post though.


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