# Low Prey Drive Dog?



## PETFOU (Sep 14, 2011)

I think Benji is not real high in prey drive, I have read some things that say that dogs with low prey drive are not real great for bite work, which is what I wanted to do with him.
To give you an example I can chuck a ball and he will go look at it then not bring it back. I bought a flirt pole to try and bring it out in him, and he is getting better but he usually sits there and waits for it to come here. He does chase it half the time though. Do i just need to persist?
Anyone know if this is a thing you can bring out in him or train him to do?
He is 6 months old now is he a bit young or something.
Any help appreciated.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Any reason you're wanting to train bite work?

I would honestly advise you don't train this yourself, it's something that should only be done with the experience and knowledge of a trainer to help you, who knows what they're doing. Otherwise you could very well muck your dog up completely. 

Take a look at working trials classes and take it from there, he's far too young in any case to really be training for bite work, recall is pretty much all you need to focus on when they're young, and build up their confidence and focus on you.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Totally agree with SL above, its not training that should be undertaken lightly


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

From what you've posted in your other thread it sounds like you've got two young pups at the moment. Concentrate on getting the basics right before even considering training such as this.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

What's bite work? I have never heard of it.

I would be interested to know what breed your dog is. Some breeds have no interest whatsoever in chasing a ball or anything else. My newfies sound like your dog, will go after the ball then look at it. Next time they won't bother at all. The only thing Ferdie will chase is next door's cat, but I doubt he would hurt it even if he caught up with it.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> What's bite work? I have never heard of it.
> 
> I would be interested to know what breed your dog is. Some breeds have no interest whatsoever in chasing a ball or anything else. My newfies sound like your dog, will go after the ball then look at it. Next time they won't bother at all. The only thing Ferdie will chase is next door's cat, but I doubt he would hurt it even if he caught up with it.


Bite work is part of schutzhund training


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

simplysardonic said:


> Bite work is part of schutzhund training


Well, I've heard of that, but don't have a clue what it is. Isn't that rather specialised, though?


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

It scares the life out of me when people start talking about training bite work.

Nowing how easy it is to train something into a dog badly or not quite get the result you were after IMO it should be reserved for highly trained working dogs only.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Well, I've heard of that, but don't have a clue what it is. Isn't that rather specialised, though?


I believe so, it's not something I'd like to see anyone undertaking without experience, it would be so easy to do it wrong


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## natty01 (Sep 4, 2011)

bite work is part of schutzund but there is lots to do before you get to that part . they have to have a lot of control and a good level of obedience . to do it properly you have to join a shutzhund club and work upto that level . there are clubs across the country and im sure if you google you will find one that you can get too. good clubs wont teach bitework to non members because it has to be trained correctly . a badly trained dog knowing bitework can be dangerous .


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

natty01 said:


> bite work is part of schutzund but there is lots to do before you get to that part . they have to have a lot of control and a good level of obedience . to do it properly you have to join a shutzhund club and work upto that level . there are clubs across the country and im sure if you google you will find one that you can get too. good clubs wont teach bitework to non members because it has to be trained correctly . a badly trained dog knowing bitework can be dangerous .


I would seriously doubt anyone on here is about to start handing out training advice of this sort too so the OPs probably barking up the wrong tree 

Great advice to join a club and take guidance


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

I get the distinct impression that the op has never heard of schutzund, let alone has any interest in joining a club and dedicating serious time to it. I believe that by bite training, he simply means training to bite. While there may be very specific and legitimate reasons for training a dog to do this they all involve people in uniforms who work for the government. The training is intensive and very specialised and if you read the other thread he has posted asking how he can teach his 10 week old staff to respond to its name, certainly not something I would like to see someone with this level of experience attempting.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Jasper's Bloke said:


> I get the distinct impression that the op has never heard of schutzund, let alone has any interest in joining a club and dedicating serious time to it. I believe that by bite training, he simply means training to bite. While there may be very specific and legitimate reasons for training a dog to do this they all involve people in uniforms who work for the government. The training is intensive and very specialised and if you read the other thread he has posted asking how he can teach his 10 week old staff to respond to its name, certainly not something I would like to see someone with this level of experience attempting.


What is worrying is there are probably sites out there that will give out this sort of information to anyone who can manage a half arsed google


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

whoever told you to get a flirt pole to work on drive may be able to help you. Do want to do a dog sport with your dog ?

For everyones info working trials also has a stake where bite work is part of the test, any breed or crossbreed can take part, but they need to have already gained a WDEX (working dog excellent) qualification.

All bite work dogs are not foaming at the mouth, aggressive beasts, my husbands BC bitch has won the last 2 PD CC's (tickets), and she is a soft, gentle, highly trained dog.


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## Ben HUnt (Sep 14, 2011)

What's schutzhund training??

Is it more to do with defence or attack?


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Jenny Olley said:


> whoever told you to get a flirt pole to work on drive may be able to help you. Do want to do a dog sport with your dog ?
> 
> For everyones info working trials also has a stake where bite work is part of the test, any breed or crossbreed can take part, but they need to have already gained a WDEX (working dog excellent) qualification.
> 
> All bite work dogs are not foaming at the mouth, aggressive beasts, my husbands BC bitch has won the last 2 PD CC's (tickets), and she is a soft, gentle, highly trained dog.


I don't think members think that for a minute but you can understand the concerns of giving out random information on an open forum to someone without any knowledge of the dog or handlers level of training.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> I don't think members think that for a minute but you can understand the concerns of giving out random information on an open forum to someone without any knowledge of the dog or handlers level of training.


Good post, as the OP apparently hasn't mastered recall with another dog they own yet I very much doubt they'd know what they were doing as far as bite work goes, well done to your BC & your husband Jenny Olley too


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

RAINYBOW said:


> I don't think members think that for a minute but you can understand the concerns of giving out random information on an open forum to someone without any knowledge of the dog or handlers level of training.


Absolutely, but it is a generally held misconception that dogs who partake in bitework for competition are nasty. I wouldn't/couldn't start giving advice to the op regarding building prey drive, it would be inappropriate and useless.

I do however think the use of the term flirt pole by the op means he knows more than he is letting on, its not a term I had come across prior to training for bitework.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

Ben HUnt said:


> What's schutzhund training??
> 
> Is it more to do with defence or attack?


Google it, you will get accurate info that way.


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## natty01 (Sep 4, 2011)

i dont think they are nasty at all , i just think that if you think of what kind of person would want a dog to do bitework outside of part of a dogsport/working dog and how they would get on training something like that , they could possibly train part of it ie the biting part , but not be so hot on the letting go bit . as i understand it the bite its self is pretty precise and the letting go should be instant on command . i would think that would take a considerble amount of training , and like you say your husbands dog had already gained titles before doing bitework.

as for the flirtpole , ive heard of people using it to increase drive and control in agility dogs and also for working with dogs that do have a good chase instinct but who lose control and cant redirect from a high level of distraction.



Jenny Olley said:


> Absolutely, but it is a generally held misconception that dogs who partake in bitework for competition are nasty. I wouldn't/couldn't start giving advice to the op regarding building prey drive, it would be inappropriate and useless.
> 
> I do however think the use of the term flirt pole by the op means he knows more than he is letting on, its not a term I had come across prior to training for bitework.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> i just think that if you think of what kind of person would want a dog to do bitework outside of part of a dogsport/working dog and how they would get on training something like that


Oh really, is that right Natty1?

Well I was one of a N London S Herts group who did it in the late 70s through 80s, one result I was awarded £160 at the Sherriff of Londons office, Temple Bar, in 1988 due to being awarded the £160 by a S London Crown court in 1988 for my dogs arrest & detention of 3 muggers, no refined Sch training or those daily repetitive routine competition things either, its the dog itself that has to have it in a real life situation & that needs working genetics line dogs, sports training is a completely different thing, same routine on similar ground over & over again throughout life, try them on top deck of a moving bus and see how they deal 3 real life heavies i action, they wont know what to do.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> i just think that if you think of what kind of person would want a dog to do bitework outside of part of a dogsport/working dog and how they would get on training something like that


Oh really, is that right Natty1?

Well I was one of a N London S Herts group who did it in the late 70s through 80s, one result I was awarded £160 at the Sherriff of Londons office, Temple Bar, in 1988 due to being awarded the £160 by a S London Crown court in 1988 for my dogs arrest & detention of 3 muggers, no refined Sch training or those daily repetitive routine competition things either. Its the dog itself that has to have it in a real life situation & that needs working genetics line, high drive dogs, sports training is a completely different thing, same routine on similar ground over & over again throughout life, try them on top deck of a moving bus and see how they deal 3 real life heavies i action, they wont know what to do.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> Oh really, is that right Natty1?
> 
> Well I was one of a N London S Herts group who did it in the late 70s through 80s, one result I was awarded £160 at the Sherriff of Londons office, Temple Bar, in 1988 due to being awarded the £160 by a S London Crown court in 1988 for my dogs arrest & detention of 3 muggers, no refined Sch training or those daily repetitive routine competition things either. Its the dog itself that has to have it in a real life situation & that needs working genetics line, high drive dogs, sports training is a completely different thing, same routine on similar ground over & over again throughout life, try them on top deck of a moving bus and see how they deal 3 real life heavies i action, they wont know what to do.


But would you agree Sleepy that you have to be an exceptionally responsible owner with your dogs trained to an excellent standard and know EXACTLY what you are doing with them in order to even contemplate training any kind of bite work?

I certainly wouldn't consider it and would feel uneasy about the OP contemplating it as his other thread is on how to get his pup to respond to it's name which suggests he does not have a great deal of experience.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

SleepyBones said:


> Oh really, is that right Natty1?
> 
> Well I was one of a N London S Herts group who did it in the late 70s through 80s, one result I was awarded £160 at the Sherriff of Londons office, Temple Bar, in 1988 due to being awarded the £160 by a S London Crown court in 1988 for my dogs arrest & detention of 3 muggers, no refined Sch training or those daily repetitive routine competition things either. Its the dog itself that has to have it in a real life situation & that needs working genetics line, high drive dogs, sports training is a completely different thing, same routine on similar ground over & over again throughout life, try them on top deck of a moving bus and see how they deal 3 real life heavies i action, they wont know what to do.


Of course there is a difference between competition trained dogs be that sch or working trials or all the other biting sports and operational working dogs.

Working trials PD manwork test are all different, as are the tracks and the control rounds, it is not a set test, but i know the majority of the dogs would not do it in "real life", but they don't need to as long as they show the required atributes on the test.

I also understand that for people who have little or no knowledge of bite work for working and sports dogs that they find it shocking, i on the other hand love it, as do my dogs and all the other people who attend our manwork/bitework classes.

I do believe that as civilians we should only be doing manwork as part of our advanced obedience work.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

Dogs properly trained in bite work will be just as soppy as any other dog.

Trained properly, it is a _game_ to them- they are teased and get to mouth/grab and eventually learn to bite the bite-protective arm/sleeve as an enjoyable game- just like tug.

Obviously, the reasons for this training are niche (police, army etc.) but just because the dog is trained to do it, does not mean that the dog is unsafe, or eternally aggressive to humans- or aggressive at all.

For example, if the bite arm comes off during a bite/shake, a well-trained working dog will carry on biting the arm, and probably parade around with it in his mouth- not turn on the human!

I am not going to offer advice on this as the reasons need to be legitimate and the exercises should be supervised by someone knowledgeable. However, I just wanted to dispel a few myths about what effect this type of training has on a dog's overall character.

A good video:
Video iWoofs 5 Protection Sports - YouTube


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> I do believe that as civilians we should only be doing manwork as part of our advanced obedience work.


Well of course you have do a level of OB as a foundation for all high activity behaviours but a pet dog has far more demanding needs than sport dog for the simple reason the owner must have a command to stop an unexpected, random event, which is of high reward value to the dog, maybe in a strange place, in unfamiliar type terrain at any point in its lifetime, thinking time alone for the human to respond with a command can cost quite a distance if the dogs running in away from them.

The sport dog is trained for high level ability to carry out a precision move which is repeated in similar terrain/environment almost every day of its life, the commands & points of commands are predictable to the dog & planned by the human, Bart Bellons dogs (example) (euro ring champ) never leave the training grounds in their working lifetime & there are a lot here who do the same, that includes doggy dancing etc not just protection sport.

Of the 2 above it is the unexpected random event which is the most difficult to control & every pet owner is faced with that potential sometime in their dogs lifetime, so an effective OB foundation is the primary essential for owning a dog, regardless of the lifestyle.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> But would you agree Sleepy that you have to be an exceptionally responsible owner with your dogs trained to an excellent standard and know EXACTLY what you are doing with them in order to even contemplate training any kind of bite work?


Yes but theres no way of defining what a responsible owner is, I bet if half the members of this board saw my dog let off-lead around mixed terrain they would throw their hands up in horror as she disappeared at speed into a wood a couple of hundred metres away then to be seen as a black speck coming out of the wood moving after a wild deer much further up from where she went in & that will go on all the time shes out including after dark when it comes.

So defining responsible is impossible, people overlook taking into account the benefits of the same dogs fitness & stamina for an 8 year 9 months old dog, with a life expectancy 10 average, she would stand a far better chance in a veterinary crisis than any dog which was not given those freedoms to maintain that level of peak fitness & mental health which are the result of a lifetime of being allowed to maintain her own needs, old dogs, which she is now, have different needs & the bodies heightened ability to come through a veterinary crisis because of peak fitness is very high on the list of the older dogs needs.

So, again it has to end up with the question what defines a responsible owner? there are so many variables to be taken into account you'd end up with the question 'should dogs be kept as domestic companions at all?


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> But would you agree Sleepy that you have to be an exceptionally responsible owner with your dogs trained to an excellent standard and know EXACTLY what you are doing with them in order to even contemplate training any kind of bite work?


Yes but theres no way of defining what a responsible owner is. I bet if half the members of this board saw my dog let off-lead on a normal day, around mixed terrain they would throw their hands up in horror as she disappeared at speed into a wood a couple of hundred metres away next to be seen as a black speck coming out of the wood moving after a wild deer much further up from where she went into the wood & that activity will go on all the time shes out, including after dark when it comes, she >needs< that freedom, it's essential for her & every dog to be itself.

So defining responsible is impossible, people overlook taking into account the benefits of the same dogs fitness & stamina for an 8 year 9 months old dog, with a life expectancy 10 average, she would stand a far better chance in a veterinary crisis than any dog which was not given those freedoms to maintain that level of peak fitness & mental health which are the result of a lifetime of being allowed to maintain her own needs, old dogs, which she is now, have different needs & the bodies heightened ability to come through a veterinary crisis because of peak fitness is very high on the list of the older dogs needs.

So, again it has to end up with the question what defines a responsible owner? there are so many variables to be taken into account you'd end up with the question 'should dogs be kept as domestic companions at all?


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

SleepyBones said:


> Well of course you have do a level of OB as a foundation for all high activity behaviours but a pet dog has far more demanding needs than sport dog for the simple reason the owner must have a command to stop an unexpected, random event, which is of high reward value to the dog, maybe in a strange place, in unfamiliar type terrain at any point in its lifetime, thinking time alone for the human to respond with a command can cost quite a distance if the dogs running in away from them.
> 
> The sport dog is trained for high level ability to carry out a precision move which is repeated in similar terrain/environment almost every day of its life, the commands & points of commands are predictable to the dog & planned by the human, Bart Bellons dogs (example) (euro ring champ) never leave the training grounds in their working lifetime & there are a lot here who do the same, that includes doggy dancing etc not just protection sport.
> 
> Of the 2 above it is the unexpected random event which is the most difficult to control & every pet owner is faced with that potential sometime in their dogs lifetime, so an effective OB foundation is the primary essential for owning a dog, regardless of the lifestyle.


The sport dogs I know or competition dogs are first and foremost pet dogs that we choose to compete with, my dogs go out as normal dogs every day, in the park, on the local field, on the beach.
when you say here are you in the uk sleepy.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> The sport dogs I know or competition dogs are first and foremost pet dogs that we choose to compete with,


Yes I know that, but, all those competitions have a lot of dogs take part which are simply not up to some parts of them in their physical confirmations, most competions have parts in them which are made up from normal free roaming behaviours but then structured into a feild course which puts more pressure & physical friction on tendons & joints & a whole lot of other things outside my own knowledge which some participant dogs are simply built for, a simple example are the frequent sharp turns on agility courses.

Many of the dogs have no problems with them but there are others who might have bones which are to thin for the frequent sharp twists & turns on a regular basis which can over time damage joints etc, those doggy dancing dogs which stand up on the back legs and go backwards, not all dogs have the rright structure for such abnormal movement & body positions & again in the long term this might bring out some age problems.

Dont forget that in europe all working breeds have mandatory fit for purpose working, confirmation & other tests, for all working breeds, before the breed registration club issues a fit for breeding licence, the confirmation tests alone ensure excellent confirmations of the breed as a whole, some offspring are not up to the required standard & thats the end of them for breeding, I know Dobermanns in Europe are only allowed 2cms out of whats regulated as acceptable confirmation, if they are more than 2cms out they dont get a fit for breeding licence, end off.

Here any dog can do these competitions and their parents might have passed on poor confirmations which cannot stand the stresses without causeing problems, sport (I dont do them) has more demands on the dogs than people think.

Yes I am in UK but my dogs are all pure European lines, they are not like UK dogs of that breed, if I wanted to I can go back 30 years or more and find out the hip score of any ancestor of 30 years ago, the records are mandatory, all made easier now with pet passport.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

SleepyBones said:


> Yes I know that, but, all those competitions have a lot of dogs take part which are simply not up to some parts of them in their physical confirmations, most competions have parts in them which are made up from normal free roaming behaviours but then structured into a feild course which puts more pressure & physical friction on tendons & joints & a whole lot of other things outside my own knowledge which some participant dogs are simply built for, a simple example are the frequent sharp turns on agility courses.
> 
> Many of the dogs have no problems with them but there are others who might have bones which are to thin for the frequent sharp twists & turns on a regular basis which can over time damage joints etc, those doggy dancing dogs which stand up on the back legs and go backwards, not all dogs have the rright structure for such abnormal movement & body positions & again in the long term this might bring out some age problems.
> 
> ...


Sorry I thought we were taking about dogs that never get to leave their training ground, not whether dogs are fit for purpose, some are, some aren't. But I am sure more pet dogs get pts under the age of 2 from behavioural issues caused by lack of stimulation than from sports injuries. 
We are all different in what we perceive as acceptable and unacceptable.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

SleepyBones said:


> I bet if half the members of this board saw my dog let off-lead on a normal day, around mixed terrain they would throw their hands up in horror as she disappeared at speed into a wood a couple of hundred metres away next to be seen as a black speck coming out of the wood moving after a wild deer much further up from where she went into the wood & that activity will go on all the time shes out, including after dark when it comes, she >needs< that freedom, it's essential for her & every dog to be itself.


I'm sorry but that is unbelievably and ridiculously irresponsible. Do you realise the injuries a dog can cause to a deer! Good God.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> I'm sorry but that is unbelievably and ridiculously irresponsible. Do you realise the injuries a dog can cause to a deer!


Its not dogs which are reliably trained to recall from different species chases that put wild & other domestic animals at risk, it's the dogs which are not trained to recall from mixed species chases which put other animals at risk, just in case you overloooked that fact.



> Good God.


Bless theee.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Really? So when she's "a black speck coming out of the wood moving after a deer" hundreds of meters away do you have the ability to immediately call her off?

How would you know if she took down a deer INSIDE the wood where you couldn't see? Do you realise how many rangers are called out every year to finish off deer that have been maimed by dogs such as yours?


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> Really? So when she's "a black speck coming out of the wood moving after a deer" hundreds of meters away do you have the ability to immediately call her off?


I use a whistle


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

So do I, but in my case it's to immediately STOP the dog from even thinking about chasing in the first place; it's not a whistle to recall her back AFTER she started the chase behaviour.

You also didn't answer my question about her behaviour out of sight in the woods.

In addition, your Youtube video seems to have been removed.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> How would you know if she took down a deer INSIDE the wood where you couldn't see?


I wouldn't, would anyone else?



> Do you realise how many rangers are called out every year to finish off deer that have been maimed by dogs such as yours?
> Like


I know rangers sometimes have to PTS deer in Richmond park damaged by dogs, but not with dogs like mine, those are dogs which are not like mine!


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Are you actually being serious?? Yes I know you wouldn't know if your dog pulled down a deer in the wood - if that deer is lucky it would be found maybe 2 days later by another walker or by a ranger so it could be put out of its misery. Most of the time they are NOT found and either starve to death or die from their injuries. I can't believe I'm even having to spell this out for you!

And how is your dog any different from the out of control dogs in Richmond Park? Just because you claim to be able to recall her during a long distance chase doesn't mean that she wouldn't maim a deer if she caught it. In light of that you're actually WORSE than those dog owners who have no control - you actively LET her chase!

Unbelievable!


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> In addition, your Youtube video seems to have been removed.


I must have put the wrong link, heres the right one.

Multiple Recalls From Chases, Different Species An Emergency & An Aggressive Incident. - YouTube


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> In light of that you're actually WORSE than those dog owners who have no control - you actively LET her chase!


Then I guess I'm just another sinner, glory be!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> I wouldn't, would anyone else?
> 
> I know rangers sometimes have to PTS deer in Richmond park damaged by dogs, but not with dogs like mine, *those are dogs which are not like mine!*




In what way? How can you say they are not like yours, as though yours are something special? You have no idea what your dog is doing if he is out of sight like that; apart from hurting some poor deer, he could very well badly injure himself and not be able to get up and there you are uselessly blowing your whistle or whatever other devices you are not admitting to.

He could fall prey to another irresponsible owner with an aggressive dog, who says that other dogs aren't like his.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> But I am sure more pet dogs get pts under the age of 2 from behavioural issues caused by lack of stimulation than from sports injuries.


Probably, according to a Bristol uni survey they estimate 10.5 million dogs in UK, I doubt many the right stimulation.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

My question has to be 'Why bite work ? dont you like your neighbours or something.? Most people try to train their dogs not to bite,


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> you are uselessly blowing your whistle


:001_tt1::smilewinkgrin::001_tt1:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...+chases&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

SleepyBones said:


> I must have put the wrong link, heres the right one.
> 
> Multiple Recalls From Chases, Different Species An Emergency & An Aggressive Incident. - YouTube


Do you expect me to be impressed? Not meaning to boast but my dogs have probably a better quality of recall (see 00:42 where the recall had to be reinforced by name) at similar distances when out working under immense distraction...but I would still NOT allow them to chase!

I still fail to see what makes your dog so special?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> :001_tt1::smilewinkgrin::001_tt1:
> 
> Multiple Recalls From Chases, Different Species An Emergency & An Aggressive Incident. - YouTube


None of which answers the point which I was trying to make in the sentence which you have taken out of context.

If your dog were to break his leg or get caught in a thistle and could not come back, how long are you going to blow your whistle before you go looking for him?

My daughter once rang me in a panic when she was taking my old dog in woods, because he didn't come when she called him and she couldn't find him. Eventually we found him. He had laid down and his old legs had given out; he couldn't get up. That is the sort of thing I am talking about, not to mention the poor wildlife.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> In what way? How can you say they are not like yours,


In this way

1. APDT Training Methods Causing Severe Health Damage. - YouTube

3. APDT Damaged Dog, Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK. Prong Collar Recovery - YouTube

& this way, I am not exploited by nonsense for newbies



> Anyway that's off topic, I live in London so as you can imagine it's vey expensive. My first trainer's rate was £150 for 2 hours, the second one was £300 for several sessions, third was £160 for two hours and the fourth was £80 for one hour. They all used different techniques and some mutual techniques and all were recommended and very experienced. The classes I go to are one of a kind and are excellent and only cost £20 per class but aren't in London so it involves a two hour car journey there and two hours back once a week so once you've factored petrol in it's actually quite a lot.


http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/179338-remote-spray-collar-advice-2.html

.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> If your dog were to break his leg or get caught in a thistle and could not come back, how long are you going to blow your whistle before you go looking for him?


As regards a dog with a broken leg I am in the same position as everyone.

As regards getting caught on a thistle I dont have a clue what concept you have in mind, are they growing Triffids or something where you are? or have you just been reading to much of John Wyndams' stuff


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

I haven't bothered to watch those clips, and frankly I don't care what qualifications you claim to have. The fact of the matter is that you intentionally set your dog onto wildlife. The only difference between you and the local poachers is that you're able to call your dog back once she's done her damage.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> My daughter once rang me in a panic when she was taking my old dog in woods, because he didn't come when she called him and she couldn't find him. Eventually we found him. He had laid down and his old legs had given out; he couldn't get up. That is the sort of thing I am talking about, not to mention the poor wildlife


Do you understand the term 'irrelevant drivel'?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

SleepyBones said:


> I must have put the wrong link, heres the right one.
> 
> Multiple Recalls From Chases, Different Species An Emergency & An Aggressive Incident. - YouTube





SleepyBones said:


> :001_tt1::smilewinkgrin::001_tt1:
> 
> Multiple Recalls From Chases, Different Species An Emergency & An Aggressive Incident. - YouTube


why do you continue to post these videos of your dog harassing wildlife?????????? christ the mods must have deleted a 1000 of em already!


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> I haven't bothered to watch those clips,


I see, so you will not be joining the SleepyBones either I take it?



> and frankly I don't care what qualifications you claim to have.


I never mentioned qualifications of any kind ever, maybe theres something strange in the water where you are! Triffid pee maybe!


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Triffid pee? Perhaps in the water where you are, seeing as you're unable to keep track of who's posting what.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> Do you understand the term 'irrelevant drivel'?


Yes, but not nearly as well as you do


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> why do you continue to post these videos of your dog harassing wildlife?????????? christ the mods must have deleted a 1000 of em already!


Why should they delete them? they are recalls from chases and the reason I posted them is to show those who have problems with recalls & chases cleo38 & others that any trainers they hire should teach them to recall from chases, as its a common problem for many and those youtube recalls from chases videos show how it can be solved (or get a refund from trainers who dont), they show what should be a part of standard OB training that pet owners should expect from paying out to trainers, any dog can get into an emergency & effective recalls from intense distractions solves the problems, edu videos are easy to understand, thats why when the news comes on TV we have videos of the events not just writing on the screen describing the events, its the modern way.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

SleepyBones said:


> Why should they delete them? they are recalls from chases and the reason I posted them is to show those who have problems with recalls & chases cleo38 & others that any trainers they hire should teach them to recall from chases, as its a common problem for many and those youtube recalls from chases videos show how it can be solved (or get a refund from trainers who dont).


Where exactly does it show on those videos how chase behaviour can be solved? The majority of trainers would actually work on NOT allowing the chase behaviour to start in the first place.

You also haven't accepted the fact that your dog is probably causing distress and destruction when she's out unsupervised in the woods. You have deftly backhanded the responsibility of dog ownership by displacing your dog's chasing issues through preaching a lesson in recall.

Well played. You should go into politics.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

SleepyBones said:


> Why should they delete them? they are recalls from chases and the reason I posted them is to show those who have problems with recalls & chases cleo38 & others that any trainers they hire should teach them to recall from chases, as its a common problem for many and those youtube recalls from chases videos show how it can be solved (or get a refund from trainers who dont), they show what should be a part of standard OB training that pet owners should expect from paying out to trainers, any dog can get into an emergency & effective recalls from intense distractions solves the problems, edu videos are easy to understand, thats why when the news comes on TV we have videos of the events not just writing on the screen describing the events, its the modern way.


for one its against the flamin law!:cursing:

The Act deliberately does not define hunting with dogs because the term should be understood in its ordinary English meaning, which includes using dogs to chase wild mammals, or pursue them with the intention of catching or killing them. The deliberate use of dogs to chase a wild mammal, even if there is no intention of catching it, is hunting and as such is prohibited by the Act. This may include the wilful failure to prevent dogs from chasing wild mammals


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Want to see something interesting?

E-Collar Trained Dog. Multiple Game Chase Recalls, Emergency Recall, Aggressive Incident Recall etc - YouTube

Is there something you're omitting to tell us, SB?


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> for one its against the flamin law!
> 
> The Act deliberately does not define hunting with dogs because the term should be understood in its ordinary English meaning, which includes using dogs to chase wild mammals, or pursue them with the intention of catching or killing them. The deliberate use of dogs to chase a wild mammal, even if there is no intention of catching it, is hunting and as such is prohibited by the Act. This may include the wilful failure to prevent dogs from chasing wild mammals


AHHhhh, now I understand, you mean they don't understand why I put the vids on showing recalls from chases, easy, they are to teach pet owners who may hire trainers that trainers should train them to train their dogs to recall from chases as part of standard OB training, if not then don't employ (hire) that trainer, I'm glad thats cleared up, so many pet owners get ripped off these days & their dogs messed up by trainer exploitation.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Using an E-collar? Well, I'll be first in the queue for your training class when my dogs' recall goes out the window.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> Using an E-collar? Well, I'll be first in the queue for your training class when my dogs' recall goes out the window.


Oh I did not realize we could discuss e-collars again till you just started talking about them, I would recomend Robin MacFarlanes video has taken off here, just google - robin macfarlane video, peeps don't need a trainer with that set thanks for the tip off shamy


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

shamykebab said:


> Using an E-collar? Well, I'll be first in the queue for your training class when my dogs' recall goes out the window.


Well, you didn't think he was only using a whistle did you? Most people train their dogs to associate a whistle with a tasty treat so that they come back. Anyone who has followed threads which have caused a ban on discussing barbaric implements, knows full well that that is not the case here.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

Ah, I didn't see that coming (naive or what).


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

SleepyBones said:


> AHHhhh, now I understand, you mean they don't understand why I put the vids on showing recalls from chases, easy, they are to teach pet owners who may hire trainers that trainers should train them to train their dogs to recall from chases as part of standard OB training, if not then don't employ (hire) that trainer, I'm glad thats cleared up, so many pet owners get ripped off these days & their dogs messed up by trainer exploitation.


what the hell are you waffling on about????????????::

you allowing your dog to chase and harrass wildlife is disgusting and i know even Grandad has said if you did that in his forest he would prosecute!...and rightly so!

so maybe you should remove the links before i report you to the mods for posting them AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

@Sleepy.. but here's the problem. You are obviously very good at what you do. Whether I agree with what you do is irrelevant. In a world where everyone did what you are suggesting you would be the exception rather than the rule. That's a recipe for chaos.


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

I love how a random post by a troll gets everyone in an argument about completey a different topic


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