# How pure is my russian blue kitten?



## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

cat experts and cat lovers,I recently bought a kitten off a random seller. All of the genuine breeders were out of kittens and I was desperate for a new kitten so I went to gumtree where they were selling russian blues for 350. When i asked she said the mums mum was pure bred russian blue with papers and the dad they were told is pure russian blue.
i dont mind if they are not pure russian blues and i dont think they are but i wanted to know how pure do you think these kittens are. im taking a girl for £350


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

please!!!!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Very sorry but these are not Russian Blues.

There are a few pointers in the way the kittens look - but more importantly, unless they come with a full pedigree and registration with an established registration organisation (GCCF or TICA), then they cannot be a genuine example of the breed.


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

So u think they have no russian blue in their family at all?


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## LostSoul (Sep 29, 2012)

unfortunately without any proof they are just grey cats....beautiful grey cats but just cats.

and personally i wouldnt line the pockets of any random seller


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> So u think they have no russian blue in their family at all?


No, not unless they had a pedigree and registration to prove it.

A lot of cats can be Blue in colour - it's not that rare. Colour alone doesn't make a Russian - it would be shape, build, coat texture, eye colour, ear set, temperament and lots more as well.

If you genuinely want a Russian Blue cat - then these people will be your first call - 
Russian Blue Breeders' Association


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## knuckingfuts (Jan 11, 2014)

Bad photos but Mum looks like a standard black cat to me! Don't give any money to them.


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## Polski (Mar 16, 2014)

The seller may be telling the truth, they could even have full russian blue parents/g.parents and gg.parents but without papers they are just moggies, my favourite "breed"


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

They look the same as the cats I have in rescue, domestic shorthair.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

I love Moggies too BUT I certainly wouldn't pay £350 for one! 

That's effective what you'd be doing as without papers etc, they are moggies


Also, have the parents been fully health tested AND have you seen the actual documentation proof of this?

If not, then you could sadly end up with a badly bred cat who could have a lifetime of problems 

If you want a Russian Blue .... do lots of research, find a reputable breeder and wait until they have a litter


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Keep your money and walk away. Who spends £350 on a kitten without papers 

Opps just re-read and you already bought the kitten. I would have to think carefully about spending that on a pedigree kitten with papers.


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## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

OP not sure if you have bought this kitten yet but you need to walk away. All you are doing is encouraging back yard breeding which is a horrific trade. If you are so desperate for a Russian blue then research a proper breeder and wait, if you are happy with a kitten that looks similar to a RB but without papers then go to a rescue. 

Being impatient and just buying the first kitten you can off of gum tree doesn't sound very responsible.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> All of the genuine breeders were out of kittens and I was desperate for a new kitten


Most breeders have waiting lists, buying a kitten should not be a rushed decision.

It's a bit unclear whether you have or haven't handed over any money, please don't support a byb by purchasing this kitten, there are plenty of blue moggies in rescue waiting for a home if you're not fussed on having a purebred cat.


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## JaimeandBree (Jan 28, 2014)

If you haven't already bought the kitten I would strongly urge you not to and go to a rescue instead or wait for a kitten from a genuine breeder. Buying a kitten should not be rushed into lightly and you are not doing anybody any favours by lining the pockets of a BYB. You could end up with a kitten with a score of health problems.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Can only second what everyone else has said - if the kittens are not registered as Russian Blues then they are not RBs. It's an eye-watering price for a moggie as well - my pedigree registered chipped neutered vaccinated wormed kittens went for less once you've added in the costs of chipping & neutering.

How old was your kitten when you brought it?


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

You are most definitely being conned.
£350 is WAY too much for any kitten without pedigree registration papers. For that price, you may expect a kitten with full registration, or at the very least from parents that have a full registration. Though it would beat me why someone would not register any kittens from registered full pedigree parents....

They may claim the grandmother was a registered pedigree, but unless the mother is registered, how can you even know for sure mum was ever a kitten of this pedigree queen? For all you know, she is some moggy they picked off the street.

The same goes for the father.
Unless the kitten has registration papers showing both the queen and sire are pedigrees on the ACTIVE register, the kitten is no more than a moggy.

It may be a pretty kitten, but it is worth £50 at the very most.

Look at this picture of my Xena.
A beautiful girl, one of the most beautiful blue kittens I have ever seen, but a 100% moggy.


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

I think you already have your answer. If mum's mum is the only one with papers then the kittens are probably not very pure at all. 

If you wanted a pure Russian Blue then you have to go to a proper breeder and possibly be prepared to travel.

Sounds like you made a rash decision to me and have already realised that you paid way over the odds for what is essentially a moggy. I tend to think that you'd have been better spending the money on petrol and travelling to a proper breeder. 

However, I'm sure your kitten is beautiful and hopefully happy and healthy and I hope you now enjoy her for what he/she is.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

LostSoul said:


> unfortunately without any proof they are just grey cats....beautiful grey cats but just cats.
> 
> and personally i wouldnt line the pockets of any random seller


Lost soul! Hang your head in shame! LOL!!!!!!!!! there is not such a thing as "Just cats" :ihih::ihih::ihih:


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Soozi said:


> Lost soul! Hang your head in shame! LOL!!!!!!!!! there is not such a thing as "Just cats" :ihih::ihih::ihih:


Quite right! 

That's what these 'Russian Blues' are, though - Justas. Anything without papers is Justa that...


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## GingerNinja (Mar 23, 2014)

JaimeandBree said:


> If you haven't already bought the kitten I would strongly urge you not to and go to a rescue instead or wait for a kitten from a genuine breeder. Buying a kitten should not be rushed into lightly and you are not doing anybody any favours by lining the pockets of a BYB. You could end up with a kitten with a score of health problems.


Totally agree! If you haven't bought the kitten yet and just like the colour then I suggest you contact Catcoonz and give a home to one of her gorgeous blue boys


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

The gorgeous blue boys have been adopted, I do have 2 girls the same colour, one booked for neutering Tuesday.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

That is a lot of money to spend for a kitten with no papers, it is always best to wait for the right kitten, even if you have to wait 12 months, when you think the kitten could be around for the next 15 years or even longer what is 12 months waiting? If you haven't already bought them I would look elsewhere and be patient but if you have already bought the kittens then I hope you are very happy and proud of them, they are beautiful whatever they are...just pricey for a crossbreed/moggy etc. Have fun with them, love them but don't be in too much of a rush in the future.


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## tmerc22 (Jul 21, 2014)

Firstly...I am a cat novice too so I can understand how some people don't know how to tell and not sure about registering or what the active and non active registers are.
Unfortunately some sellers take full advantage of people that don't do their homework and try and make a profit out of them, this encourages them more to continue to breed and sell unethically. 
To understand fully we need to see the advert to see what the advertiser is claiming and are they mis-selling, if they have stated there are no papers then it's not really mis-selling as it could be in their opinion it's a Russian blue and they can charge what they like.
No papers then no proof, you will never know for sure.
Why do you want a Russian blue? Is it just the colour as with a bit of patience you could get a gorgeous blue rescue! 
Is it the temprament/character of the breed? In that case you can contact the breed club for information on kittens in your area.
You do have to be patient, I know it's exciting once you have decided and seeing that furry face makes you forget about the practical stuff but you want a healthy happy kitten don't you?
If the seller is dishonest that would suggest uncaring and looking to make money which could mean cutting corners on the animals welfare.
Have you paid in full? If so this is very worrying as I don't know any breeder who takes the full amount before collection. 
I would want to see proof of any immunisations, treatments and ask to see the parents health records, a reputable person would agree to this.
Let us know an update


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

OP seemed desperate this morning to get replies but has not been back since! I do hope she's gone to get back £300 of the £350 she spent! I have had pedigree Siamese in the past all from the same breeder who was a vet all my cats came with full documentation and registration papers.


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## LostSoul (Sep 29, 2012)

Soozi said:


> Lost soul! Hang your head in shame! LOL!!!!!!!!! there is not such a thing as "Just cats" :ihih::ihih::ihih:


i know, i know...im so very sorry 

i just want to add some info about the cat who made me the crazy cat lady i am today ..the mum was pure persian who had been shown for many years,she was beautiful and at the age of 11 ( if i remember right) she escaped and got pregnant, i was 17 at the time (many years ago!) and was asked if i could take in 2 kittens who were a little over a week old, Ludo and Chloe were the first cats who were just mine, i didnt know what i was doing but i managed, sadly chloe didnt make it, i was told the mum had adandoned the kittens and they were dying, about a month later the lady asked me for Ludo back, she admitted she had seperated the kittens who looked persian from the 2 who didnt so she could sell them as pure breeds...sadly none of them made it, except Ludo and she had given him to me she wanted him bac to sell so she could make some money!!
i cant possibly repeat what i said but she never asked again...
although his mum most definitely was pure bred Ludo most certainly wasnt, he was stunning though and we had 17 happy years together..he's been gone for 5 years now and i still miss him every day. He changed my life..

the mum looked something like this








My boy Ludo


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

Thank u all!! Thanks to this cat forum I have now told the breeder I don't want the kitten and to keep the deposit for time wasting £50! I have now found a breeder with one male left and it's fully registered to GCCF with a certificate or whatever and has 5 generations of breeding on papers . Costs me £600 but totally worth it. I'm collecting him on Monday ! In Swansea though loooong !!


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

This is him. Thoughts??


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

Whilst I have a Russian Blue myself I'm no expert at all on the breed and find myself quite often looking at pictures of blue/grey moggies and thinking that they look like Russian Blues! 

But anyway, he looks lovely .

How old will he be when you pick him up? Will he have been fully vaccinated?


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## TeddyMum (Jul 26, 2014)

He looks lovely &#128512;


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Registered with GCCF and a pedigree history is a good start 
£600 sounds like a hell of a lot of money to me, but perhaps that is the going rate 
Also your urgency concerns me a bit if I'm honest. 
Perhaps it is usual practice but I'm a little surprised that a breeder would sell you a kitten over the internet and allow you to pick the kitten up a few days later. I understand not everyone can visit a breeder that is far away but what will you do if you get there and the place is a dump and the cats and kittens are sickly, dirty and flea ridden (for example).
I hope you won't part with any money until collection 
Just because the breeder is registered is no guarantee the kittens are the best that they can be.
How far will you have to travel?


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

does worry me slightly that you have agreed to part with the best part of a thousand pounds based on a photograph. Breeders that I know encourage many visits and interrogate potential new owners quite deeply regarding lifestyle. Work commitments etc before agreeing on collection date and any money exchanging hands. Perhaps the breeder has done this via email but I still think that you would have been better visiting a few litters, on different days of course, to get an idea of the breed characteristics etc. Anyway. He looks adorable and I wish you a long and happy slavehood


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Is the breeder listed on the page Merlinsmum posted for you in post #6?
If you want a real RB slow down, and make sure you know what you are getting. No breeder I have bought from would let a stranger have a kitten without meeting them.


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

In the defence of the OP, he/she is after a Russian Blue kitten and has taken advice on here by going to a GCCF registered breeder. From looking at Pets 4 Homes, Russian Blues do seem to be in short supply so it might be that £600 is the going rate. Perhaps if the kitten is ready to go now and there is quite a long distance involved, it is a case of them visiting and if both breeder and purchaser are happy on the day that they walk away with the kitten, if not they walk away empty handed.

My concern is that a google of Russian Blues in Swansea has shown me a website that says they are ready to leave at 8/9 weeks which surely is too early and before the second vaccination?


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Not attacking the OP - desperately trying to protect them.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Jonescat said:


> Not attacking the OP - desperately trying to protect them.


Me too, their emotions and their finances :001_unsure:


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I've found the breeders website and two things concern me.
The kittens are rehomed at 8-9 weeks old and they are not vaccinated.
So at £600 per kitten this breeder must be doing OK 
I hope the OP has really looked into this and took everything into consideration before rushing in


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## TeddyMum (Jul 26, 2014)

I thought to be registered they had to be 14 weeks and vaccinated? Worth checking, I am no expert but sure I read that somewhere x


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## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

Certainly sounds a bit dodgy OP, are you happy to wait a few weeks? Some people wait years for their right kitten, I waited 14 weeks for mine, I know it's tough but it's worth it to get a well bred, well socialised little kitten


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

moggie14 said:


> I've found the breeders website and two things concern me.
> The kittens are rehomed at 8-9 weeks old and they are not vaccinated.
> So at £600 per kitten this breeder must be doing OK
> I hope the OP has really looked into this and took everything into consideration before rushing in


That will be the same site I found. I was hoping that was just an error on the site, but the preloved ad that the OP posted has no mention of vaccinations in it either so I suspect they do still leave home at too young an age .


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

One thing the kitten comes with (and it sounds like it is the ONE thing!) is 4 weeks free pet plan insurance. Can you insure such a young kitten prior to vaccinations?


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

Not sure where you are OP but it might be worth looking on the pets 4 homes site as well. There's a breeder that is on the Russian Blue breeders list in Notts that looks like they have kittens. These are vaccinated, wormed and microchipped and the girls are neutered before leaving home. Even if the kittens have already been reserved they may well be able to put you in touch with others that do.

The general advice as others have given - slow down, be careful and do a bit of research. It does seem that £500/£600 is the average price but don't part with your money too quickly.


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

Thanks again for the responses. I quizzed him a fair bit and it seems legit. He had one kitten left so you imagine if they were not pure a bunch of other people wouldn't fork out £600. My friend is collecting him on Monday as he's going wales for the weekend. (It's a 3-4 hour drive for me) I'm told the kitten comes with a gccf certificate and 5 generations of breeding forms. I know I shouldn't rush but he looks beautiful . Of course before meeting I will ask for more photos etc. he said the kitten needs one more vaccination I don't mind paying. Plus the mother is there on arrival I will try to inform my
Friend not to take it home if it's not the same cat in the picture haha fingers crossed.


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

My rush is because one of my cats died recently and it seemed like the only way to fill the void . Me and my family have always been excellent cat owners and spoilt are cats rotten . My mum had a pure Siamese and we currently have a pure burman with all there family ancestors etc. my mum is another influence to why I decided to not get those domestic short hair cats with no papers posing as russian blues!!


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

But how old is the kitten that you will be getting?

Sorry to hear about your other cat - I had assumed from your name that that was the case and was also the reason for the rush.


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## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

I wish you all the best with your new kitten but even if you are grieving you should never rush a process and potentially line the pockets of a back yard breeder. I hope your breeder is a good, genuine breeder but all the things you have said have raised alarm bells for us, which is why we suggested being cautious. Sometimes patience is a virtue. 

Again, all the best and I hope you stay on here so we can see his progress.


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

It's 3 months old. Yes I'll be posting lots of pictures


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I completely understand why you want to get another kitten quickly. I'm just worried for you.
As much as you must trust your friend, it's a concern that you are going to hand over a huge sum of money to a person you will never meet, for a kitten you are not going to meet in the flesh until he is yours and with you 
Also, for £600 I would expect a fully vaccinated, microchipped and even perhaps neutered kitten. Remember you will be forking out quite a lot of additional money in the next few weeks.
The kitten is gorgeous and I truly do wish you all the best, but if you have any doubts then don't be afraid to walk away. You may only have to wait a few months to find a breeder nearer to you that has kittens that you can visit and feel completely happy with.
Please keep us posted and I hope you realise we are all looking out for you and not criticizing x


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I know of the breeder in Swansea. I wouldn't touch them with a 10 ft bargepole.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

There are a lot of concerns, aside from already mentioned the website has a pathetic excuse for not vaccinating, and apparently if you visit your kitten prior to collection you are not allowed to touch it!
All seems very strange to me, which is why I am worried about OP :001_unsure:


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

It seems ok to me they sent a picture of its ancestory and the mother and the GCCF certificate. All seems pretty legit. He said vaccinations are done when they left home so to minimise stress.


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## JaimeandBree (Jan 28, 2014)

OP, I would listen to the advice being given here by people who know what they are talking about.

I understand the desire to fill the gap left by your other cat. But if you rush into this and its turns out badly you will feel worse than you do now.

Most of us here, if not all, would be very wary of the fact that this breeder is willing to let a kitten go to a home without meeting/vetting the new owner first. The reason he has given you for not vaccinating is not a legitimate excuse. If anything, the experience would be less stressful for them whilst still with mum and littermates than in a new environment that they are already having to adjust to.

If you read posts by some of the breeders on here you will see the difference between their attitude towards their kittens and the attitude this breeder in Swansea seems to have. The breeders on here do not view the kittens as a commodity and do everything in their power to ensure that their kittens are going to a good home. Not to mention that they will fully vaccinate and in some cases even neuter the kittens before they leave and still take a smaller fee than this breeder is charging you.

If Carly87 says she wouldn't touch this breeder with a bargepole, I wouldn't either. She is a well respected breeder on here - read some of her recent posts and you'll see why.

I am not a patient person and I sympathise with the urge to get a kitten straight away once you've decided that's what you want to do. But this is definitely a case where a little patience is worth it.

Just also want to second what others have said that we're not judging or trying to be difficult but trying to protect you, because we've seen what the consequences of dodgy breeding can be.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'd remove his name from here lovely, as we're not supposed to post them. Vaccinatinos should always be done before rehoming, and you shouldn't be able to pick up your kitten until at least 12 weeks. Please don't give him any money.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Agreed 
Think about it.... You are paying a large amount of money for a kitten you haven't seen and handing over the dosh to a person you have never met.
GCCF or TICA registered kittens should be rehomed at 13 weeks with a full set of vaccinations, which means 2 vet checks, microchipped, flead and wormed. And if the breeder does it - early neutered - all included in the price.
The excuse of not vaccinating is rubbish. It's an excuse to keep his profit margins.
I'm not clear why the kitten has to be an RB. If I was in your position and desperate to rehome a little baby to help me heal then I would be going to my local rescue who at this time of year will have loads of kittens to choose from.
Or even better wait. Get put on a breeders waiting list and enjoy the anticipation.
Please don't get conned, I would hate that to happen to you


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

I am sorry for the loss of your other cat - and know how awful it is as many on here sadly do

But please don't rush into anything - I'm not sure how this 'breeder' sounds any better than the previous one 

Are you really going to let a friend go on their own & make such a huge decision  seriously - are you really prepare to hand over that much money without even meeting the kitten / its mum?

How are you going to check the heath certificates are in order & the registration docs 


Sorry but I don't understand that


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Totally agree with above...having had an awful experience with a breeder I thought was ok (but was a complete liar) I learned my lesson the hard way. 

When finding our latest addition I visited 2 other breeders before settling with the 3rd. I had been looking for about 4 months. I visited and saw the kittens, in their kitten rooms, met Mum, Dad plus all the other cats. I saw the outdoor pens for stud cats. We stayed for around 3 hours (sorry Pat if ever you view this) chatting, playing with cats and kittens, asking questions, getting to know each other. 

My breeder was registered with GCCF and I'm pretty certain you can't register a kitten til it's had both its vaccinations. 

I checked she was indeed registered and that she wasn't suspended and tried to find anything bad posted about her on the internet (sorry again). 

I am thrilled to say I have a wonderful, healthy, social, GCCF show quality kitten who cost a lot less than I paid previously!! BTW my breeder doesn't charge enough!!! She was £450.


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

I completely understand the concern. I have used 2 breeders before one for a siamese and one for a birman. The birman we were allowed to take straight away and he is absolutely perfect with a full ancestory. (4 gen). The siamese was tougher to get but she turned out perfect. I've seen all the ancestory papers and the certificate of the cat. Their website. I am pretty convinced I am not taking a huge risk. I will query him about the second vaccination. I would love to go but the drive is 4 hours and with the offer of my mums work colleague to collect the little thing it seems ideal. I've seen plenty of pictures of the mum and the kitten and they look very very legitimate. Carly what is so bad about this particular breeder? i am going to delete his name. sounds like u are a very loving breeder , maybe this one isn't but the kitten will be going to a loving home. the kitten comes with the full documentations. My mum who has grown up with pedigrees all her life is happy about it all apart from the vaccination. By the way the kitten is now 3 months old so easily ready to leave. It was the only remaining kitten from the recent litter!!


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## Maiaetta (Jul 3, 2014)

Sounds like you have already made your mind up.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Not sure why this kitten is £600 that already has me suspicious as the top prices on pets4homes 550! 

Where is OR, where did you get Mika?


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

i have. ive checked the suspension list hes not on it but is registered with a CS code.
would love to put up a picture but i cant put up names.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I've looked at website and he lets kittens go at 8/9 weeks and no mention of vaccinations.

the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy

Please please read this before you say yes.

13 weeks and at least enteritis and cat flu

Also no pics of kitten rooms, pens etc etc
Only pics of stud cats, none of the queens?

As a comparison, diff breed but GCCF reg Coonaria


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## Alisa25 (May 19, 2010)

I would strongly recommend going to see this kitten yourself. I don't really see why you wouldn't want to go.. :001_unsure:

I drove 5 hours to MEET my babies (so 10 hour round trip). Then drove the same again when I was collecting them. And it was well worth it!
You see the breeder and the conditions and environment and the cats. And most importantly you MEET your potential baby! Just liking the look of him is not enough in my opinion... You need to see his personality and how he reacts to you. :001_unsure:

I hope it works out for you - but please listen to the people on this forum, a lot of great members with very good advice!


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Alisa25 said:


> I would strongly recommend going to see this kitten yourself. I don't really see why you wouldn't want to go.. :001_unsure:
> 
> I drove 5 hours to MEET my babies (so 10 hour round trip). Then drove the same again when I was collecting them. And it was well worth it!
> You see the breeder and the conditions and environment and the cats. And most importantly you MEET your potential baby! Just liking the look of him is not enough in my opinion... You need to see his personality and how he reacts to you. :001_unsure:
> ...


Same here, we live on outskirts of London and went to Preston to see ours - our lovely breeder met us halfway on collection day to save us the journey again!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> By the way the kitten is now 3 months old so easily ready to leave. It was the only remaining kitten from the recent litter!!


So at 3 months old, it should have been vaccinated by now. I can't honestly say that this is a caring breeder.... :001_unsure:

Have you looked at any other litters for sale?
This litter sounds EXACTLY what I'd expect from a reputable breeder - 
stunning russian kittens | Manchester, Greater Manchester | Pets4Homes


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## JaimeandBree (Jan 28, 2014)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> Carly what is so bad about this particular breeder? i am going to delete his name. sounds like u are a very loving breeder , maybe this one isn't but the kitten will be going to a loving home.


I don't think anyone is questioning that the kitten will be going to a loving home, our concern is that if the breeder is suspect then you may end up spending a lot of money on a kitten who turns out to have health problems etc...

I feel very torn because there is no reason these kittens should not have loving homes but if the breeder is not legit I cannot bear the thought of their pockets beings lined...

To be perfectly honest I wouldn't get any cat, moggie or ped, that I hadn't met first. When I got J&B from Cats Protection, I had already seen them on the website and had a feeling they were the ones for me, but I still went down there and spent a good hour meeting all the cats and kittens before I made a final decision. They all have such different personalities, you really should meet them first.


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## JaimeandBree (Jan 28, 2014)

Oh and also although you want a ped to be GCCF registered, I think they do say on their site that they cannot guarantee the quality of the breeders, so you do have to do your own homework as well, you can't just rely on that.


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## tmerc22 (Jul 21, 2014)

Please please don't rush into this!!
Just looked on the website and that's the lamest excuse for not vaccinating a kitten I have heard!
I also don't like the bit in the contract of sale saying if the kitten does get sick within 4 weeks or after they don't want to know!
My breeder made a point of saying if for whatever reason in the first week we change our minds or our local vet check reveals any ill health (despite having full vacs, worming, flea treatment and 2 vet checks previously) she would take him back, why because she cares about the happiness and health of her kittens (which is why we chose her) 
I don't like the sale of contract, it's in my opinion saying if you have any problems we don't care.
How do you know it's temperament? Is it shy, bold, likes to be held, play..what does it look like health wise? You can't check ears, eyes, signs of colds, limps ect.. by a photo.
You NEED to see the kitten yourself, I do feel that you are being quite irresponsible and childish being so impatient! It's your choice but please think about it, you don't even know if it's socialized, clean ect.. Please take advice if not from me but some well respected breeders and cat lovers on here.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Interesting thread. I got a bit lost halfway through, has a post been deleted? I find it really, really weird that the kitten is being handed over to a friend and the breeder seems happy with not ever meeting the actual new owner.  

I insist that all my potential new owners come and visit at least once even if they have to travel several hours, I can't understand why anyone would make a 16 year commitment without seeing the breeders home, the rest of the breeders cats and the breeder themselves!  

I hope it works out for you


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

i understand all your concern but i think you are being a little harsh. The kittens look lovely and i will take it for its last vaccination as soon as humanly possible. However I might consider driving down tomorrow instead of waiting for my friend to get it on monday. I'm quite scared of driving all that way on my own, is that pathetic? i'd save like £70 on petrol. Regarding its temper etc. I hope to mould it into a lovely cat like all my last ones.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> i understand all your concern but i think you are being a little harsh.


I don't know how to say this kindly, but no, we're not being harsh. Some of those who have commented, myself included, have bred cats and followed all the guidelines and rules to the letter. Some of us have also visited (or even bought!) kittens from less than perfect breeders, so we are well qualified- believe me.

We as breeders have done the best by our cats and kittens, and thusly, we feel aggrieved when we see people deliberately flouting the recommended procedures (and charging a hefty whack as well).

The other things that are ringing our bells - very loudly! - is not being able to see the kittens of handle them beforehand.... plus the breeder taking deposits before meeting you.

I am not saying this is the case here, but firstly that's not normal practice, and secondly, IF a breeder had any subclinical disease issues in their cats such as cat flu, that would be an easy way for them to sell on kittens to an unsuspecting buyer. One strain of cat flu IS fatal.

And - selling unvaccinated as well - that has actually getting me a full peal of church bells going on and practising for a wedding 

I know you found good breeders before for your other cats, so why are you not looking for the same again?

There's a good saying - buy a BREEDER not a cat - which basically means, check out the person and their cats and THEN decide if you want one of theirs. Finding a lovely person who is on your own wavelength and who you trust is almost as important as the kitten itself.

My twopennorth's worth  but based on many years experience


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

You have made your mind up, I understand that so won't go on.
Just please re read this thread and take it all in.
Good luck with your new baby - I look forward to hearing all about him


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> It seems ok to me they sent a picture of its ancestory and the mother and the GCCF certificate. All seems pretty legit. He said vaccinations are done when they left home so to minimise stress.


I would say that they are not vaccinating to save money.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

huckybuck said:


> <snip>
> My breeder was registered with GCCF and I'm pretty certain you can't register a kitten til it's had both its vaccinations.
> 
> I checked she was indeed registered and that she wasn't suspended and tried to find anything bad posted about her on the internet (sorry again).
> <snip>


You can register certainly register kittens before they have had both vaccinations, and indeed to be sure one has the registrations back for the new owners at 13 weeks it's essential to do so.

Good to take those precautions about checking the breeder.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> i understand all your concern but i think you are being a little harsh. The kittens look lovely and i will take it for its last vaccination as soon as humanly possible. However I might consider driving down tomorrow instead of waiting for my friend to get it on monday. I'm quite scared of driving all that way on my own, is that pathetic? i'd save like £70 on petrol. Regarding its temper etc. I hope to mould it into a lovely cat like all my last ones.


You will spend half of that saving on it's second vaccination - I doubt your vet will do it for free.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm not prepared to go into details about the breeder. I'm not being had for libellous statements etc. Just trust me when I say that I wouldn't go there, nor even consider having a kitten from him. Whatever I said, I doubt it'd change your mind anyway, so there's no point.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi Ripmuffin! I know zilch about cat breeding so couldn't give advice on that at all! I have quickly read through the thread and as I know that there are some very knowledgeable members here so if it were me I would be inclined to take serious notice of their comments and warnings, I would sit back and bide my time and wait! You will have this cat hopefully for many years but you seem intent on getting this one because you can have him straight away! It could turn out fine or it could be a disaster but your impulsiveness could come back and bite you in the bum! Good luck with getting your Russian blue Gorgeous breed!


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## Maiaetta (Jul 3, 2014)

Got to say I agree with everything everybody has said but it seems you just made this post to justify getting this kitten in your own head rather than taking anybody's advice on board? That's not being harsh by the way. Maybe you will be lucky and get a well rounded kitten with no health problems but unless you are actually seeing the kitten for yourself you'll have no idea of knowing that or even the conditions the kitten has been raised in (have a look on the thread about first breeder experiences) 
For me my kittens are a member of my family. I wouldn't hand over hundreds of pounds before seeing a car or any inanimate object I had decided to buy so no way would I hand over hundreds for a living thing I hadn't been able to see. £70 in petrol wouldn't even come into it for me, how can you make a decision without seeing what you are getting first? Breeder interaction even was important for me, we travelled a 4 hour round trip to meet our breeder and there were plenty breeders closer but their ads or reluctance to answer questions put me off. I wouldn't buy kittens without meeting the breeder and seeing that they were breeding for genuniue reasons and not using their pets as cash cows. 
Anyway when all is said and done you obviously have your heart set on this kitten so I hope everything goes well and there are no problems (right down to even settling in or health problems as sounds like breeder wouldn't want to know) good luck x


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> i understand all your concern but i think you are being a little harsh. The kittens look lovely and i will take it for its last vaccination as soon as humanly possible. However I might consider driving down tomorrow instead of waiting for my friend to get it on monday. I'm quite scared of driving all that way on my own, is that pathetic? i'd save like £70 on petrol. Regarding its temper etc. I hope to mould it into a lovely cat like all my last ones.


Muffin, I don't usually post on threads like this as I have moggies, but here goes.

PLEASE take a step back, just for a minute. I know your heart is hurting and you really want a kitten to fill the gap, but you also need to be rational, and that is what people are trying to help with.

You are, at the moment, planning to pay absolute top end for a kitten you havent seen, that isn't vaccinated, is likely not health tested and will definitely be leaving Mum too soon (even my rescue kitten didn't come home until 12 weeks old!). None of those are signs of a good breeder - particularly that the breeder is willing to sell to someone they haven't met. Every breeder I know would want to meet you and quiz for an hour or two before deciding if you will be allowed to be adopted by one of their kittens. It also doesn't meet the GCCF ethical standards they are claiming to follow.

You also have a significant number of VERY reputable breeders, some of whom I know personally and have seen the extreme lengths they go to for their cats and kittens, telling you this breeder is not to be trusted.

When you buy a kitten, you are supporting their breeder. This breeder is not treating their cats and kittens, or their potential owners, with the respect they should receive, and is certainly not putting them first, and that is not a breeder which is worthy of support.

Please don't take all this the wrong way, you have already had the excellent sense to start asking questions, and also the guts to walk away from one con - that's more than many manage! Unfortunately, you happen to have picked a second option that is also not ideal, and I can fully understand why you feel a bit got at! However, with so many warning signs with this second choice, ones even I as a moggy owner would know to walk away from in a pedigree breeder (and I mean no disrespect to moggies by that, the moggy market is a minefield too  ), you need to try and let your head rule your heart before you take such a big risk.

*hugs* Hope you manage to find the kitten of your dreams soon - you've had a few good breeders with kits recommended, why not follow them up? Turning down not one, but two, less than kosher breeders during your search certainly won't so you any harm in their eyes


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## Little Zooey (Feb 4, 2014)

I know nothing about breeds, having rescued moggies all my life, but there is a GORGEOUS 4 month old blue boy ready for a home in Romania right now. Fully blood tested and already vaccinated and it costs £160 to bring him over here. We already have one kitten from this rescuer and we are about to adopt another three from her friend. You couldn't ask for more geniune people and the cats are all very well socialised.

This is Rafael 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=728966410503770&set=a.716473428419735.1073741968.100001712541959&type=1&theater


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

I have a Russian and they really are a lovely breed so first of all congratulations you have great taste! :wink:

£600 for a Russian is the top end of the range so as others have mentioned I find it very strange that they are letting this kitten go without his vaccinations, their reasoning of it being less stressful for the kitten is rubbish, they are doing it save money!

You say that the kitten is 3 months old which is the perfect age get a kitten but I am extremely concerned that on their website they say they re home 8/9 weeks, again I can only assume that they are doing this to save money

Yes I think the kitten is a legitimate Russian but my concern is more with the breeder and their ethics ... They sound to me like they are more interested in making money than the welfare of their kittens

I haven't heard of this breeder and they are not listed on either
The Association
RACCS - for lovers of Abyssinians, Russian Blue, White and Black cats and kittens - and Nebelungs too
Also I hold Carly in high esteem and if she is worried then so would I be

Have you phoned the above associations and asked about their kitten lists? That is how I came by my boy, they asked me where I lived and then gave me the numbers of breeders who had kittens nearest to my area

I really urge you to do your homework before you set out on a long journey to see this kitten cos if you don't like what you see (not the kitten cos he does look lovely) but more the conditions he is raised in then it will be very hard to walk away

Good luck and hopefully we will see another Russian on the forum before too long


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> It seems ok to me they sent a picture of its ancestory and the mother and the GCCF certificate. All seems pretty legit. He said vaccinations are done when they left home so to minimise stress.


Minimise stress .... what stress, if it caused stress no breeder would vaccinate their kittens, load of rubbish, truth in that statement is will cost the breeder and they want to maximise profit. This is not caring for kittens, this is get money and forget, shameful.

Its ok, they sent me a picture ... well great, you have a photo of a kitten that looks nice, all kitten photo's look nice, the issue here would be the caring side, environment being clean.
You cannot possibly tell how any kitten has been raised by a photograph, all you see is what the breeder wants you to see and nothing more. The only way to see it all is to visit.

Other concerns I have is your friend knocks on the door, breeder says here is the kitten, money exchanged and gone, sorry but no, I would never ever let any of my precious kittens leave like this.

I expect new potential owners to visit, if its 200 miles away and takes them 5 hours, that is their issue, not mine, then I expect the new owner to collect on another day, sorry but no way does this sound like a caring breeder to me.

I know you are going to take this kitten, and I hope it works out for you but sorry to say this and I don't wish to cause any upset but it has to be said a fool is easily parted with their money,

I desperately wanted a kitten not long ago to fill a void, paid deposit, saw kittens, then posted here, was too wrapped up in getting my bundle of fun to even stop and think, well I didn't get the kitten I wanted as I was warned not a good idea, turns out the advise was spot on and saved me from a lot of heartache.

Thing is there are great breeders out there who care about their kittens, please wait for one of those, I don't see this ending well at all.


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## charlieRabbit01 (Jul 1, 2014)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> i understand all your concern but i think you are being a little harsh. The kittens look lovely and i will take it for its last vaccination as soon as humanly possible. However I might consider driving down tomorrow instead of waiting for my friend to get it on monday. I'm quite scared of driving all that way on my own, is that pathetic? i'd save like £70 on petrol. Regarding its temper etc. I hope to mould it into a lovely cat like all my last ones.


I have a siamese pedigree, and we were desperate to get our first ever kitten but we looked around and spoke to a number of breeders and as a first timer I was suprised at how much info they wanted from me about where I live, how often am I in, the environment, my own knowledge of cats etc etc suprising as it was to be asked such things I understood why they asked and knew that they cared as much as i did.

We visited the breeder and spent hours playing with the kittens, met mum and dad etc before making our decission.

But our boy was 14 weeks when we got him fully vacinated, health checked etc etc.

I'm new to it all but even before reading all the responses from those in the know I'd be very suspicious.

You may have been sent photos but how can you be sure its that kitten?

My MIL picked up our siamese and we'd sent her a photo just incase the little monster had lost his collar and she said the photo could have been any of them.

With regards to you "moulding" it into a lovely cat, in my experience that doesnt work.


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## mudgekin (Apr 21, 2014)

Little Zooey said:


> I know nothing about breeds, having rescued moggies all my life, but there is a GORGEOUS 4 month old blue boy ready for a home in Romania right now. Fully blood tested and already vaccinated and it costs £160 to bring him over here. We already have one kitten from this rescuer and we are about to adopt another three from her friend. You couldn't ask for more geniune people and the cats are all very well socialised.
> 
> This is Rafael
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=728966410503770&set=a.716473428419735.1073741968.100001712541959&type=1&theater


How do you go about adopting from there and how do you get them here. I assume you have to go to Romania? What are the logistics around this


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## Alisa25 (May 19, 2010)

charlieRabbit01 said:


> I have a siamese pedigree, and we were desperate to get our first ever kitten but we looked around and spoke to a number of breeders and as a first timer I was suprised at how much info they wanted from me about where I live, how often am I in, the environment, my own knowledge of cats etc etc suprising as it was to be asked such things I understood why they asked and knew that they cared as much as i did.
> 
> We visited the breeder and spent hours playing with the kittens, met mum and dad etc before making our decission.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. In my case its more of the owner being moulded by the cats. 

*gets shouted at and slapped by a paw as the writing of this post interrupted a cuddle session*

My masters are strict.... :001_unsure:


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Minimise stress .... what stress, if it caused stress no breeder would vaccinate their kittens, load of rubbish, truth in that statement is will cost the breeder and they want to maximise profit. This is not caring for kittens, this is get money and forget, shameful.
> 
> Its ok, they sent me a picture ... well great, you have a photo of a kitten that looks nice, all kitten photo's look nice, the issue here would be the caring side, environment being clean.
> You cannot possibly tell how any kitten has been raised by a photograph, all you see is what the breeder wants you to see and nothing more. The only way to see it all is to visit.


You've also got no guarantee that the picture is of 'your' kitten, come to that...

As to 'minimising stress' by not vaccinating - I'm afraid CC is right, that is just a moneysaving excuse by the breeder. Not to mention that by homing the kitten at 9 weeks, not 12, he will save a significant amount on kitten food, litter etc. and increase his profit margin yet further. For a well socialised, well handled kitten/cat, vaccines should not be particularly stressful - my 1yo Lorelei was microchipped at about 14 weeks with no problem at all, and picked up a sickness bug as a four month old and had to have a few anti sickness/appetite booster injections, which she took with one meow of protest for one which unfortunately stings a bit. And my 9yo Charlie-girl had her annual jabs last week, and literally just sat herself down on the table and let the vet do it - no restraint necessary.

And yes, I do realise that is the very best end of the scale in her case, and even cats from good breeders may hate the vet, but the risk to the kitten of sending it out into the world unvaccinated is far greater than a few minutes of stress at the vets before going back home to food, mum and playtime.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Little Zooey said:


> I know nothing about breeds, having rescued moggies all my life, but there is a GORGEOUS 4 month old blue boy ready for a home in Romania right now. Fully blood tested and already vaccinated and it costs £160 to bring him over here. We already have one kitten from this rescuer and we are about to adopt another three from her friend. You couldn't ask for more geniune people and the cats are all very well socialised.
> 
> This is Rafael
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=728966410503770&set=a.716473428419735.1073741968.100001712541959&type=1&theater


How gorgeous is he!


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

:/ Me and my mum are going down this coming Sunday to inspect..My mum loves her pedigree cats and we have had some award winning cats in the past. We will check everything out before handing over any cash. If I drive all the way to Wales then ill certainly go mental. He better not test me. Haha joking but sort of serious. Any tips what food I should feed a russian blue? I usually go out my way to spend a fair bit on special dietary requirements as my Birman got quite sick on regular cat food. I got it a scratching post and a toy. My mum says I don't need to buy beds they never use them and just use beds and seats. Anything else I might need? I wanted to get it a collar but my mum doesn't agree with them.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> :/ Me and my mum are going down this coming Sunday to inspect..My mum loves her pedigree cats and we have had some award winning cats in the past. We will check everything out before handing over any cash. If I drive all the way to Wales then ill certainly go mental. He better not test me. Haha joking but sort of serious. Any tips what food I should feed a russian blue? I usually go out my way to spend a fair bit on special dietary requirements as my Birman got quite sick on regular cat food. I got it a scratching post and a toy. My mum says I don't need to buy beds they never use them and just use beds and seats. Anything else I might need? I wanted to get it a collar but my mum doesn't agree with them.


_Seriously?_ Which part of 'don't touch this breeder with a bargepole' have you misunderstood? 

If he DOESN'T test you, and for a long time, that's a bad sign. If he kitten is under 12/13 weeks and hasn't had all their vaccinations, that's a very bad sign.

In fact, everything about this breeder is proving to be a bad sign - _please_ walk away from him now.  From all you've ben saying I wouldn't buy a moggy off this bloke, let alone a pedigree...


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## rox666 (May 22, 2012)

I'm struggling to understand why you are ignoring all advice on here and buying this kitten from a breeder who will happily let them go far too early without vaccinations. I know you are getting one that is 3 months old but that seems to be only because they couldn't find a buyer earlier. Just think about it - if they won't spend the money on essential vaccinations and are happy to let kittens go without them (how do they know that new owners will get them done), what does that tell you about them and the level of care provided to their cats?

Anyhow, regarding feeding then you should feed him/her a good quality wet food or raw diet. There are plenty of threads on here about best foods to feed, but basically anything from the Happy Kitty Company or a large selection from Zooplus.

I provide beds for my cats and they do get used. I can particularly recommend these two:

Relax Scratch Bed | Free P&P on orders £29+ at zooplus!

Cat Bed Box | Tigga Towers

Good luck with him/her. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures.


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

thanks that bed looks cool. is it comfortable?
i think ill be purchasing that 
trust me i will take it for its second vaccination asap


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> trust me i will take it for its second vaccination asap


Vaccination will not help of the kitten is already infected with either of the main cat flu viruses.

In fact this is the only real reason I can think of that they aren't already fully vaccinated, especially if the breeder mentions "stress". Healthy cats do not get stressed when getting their jabs - but in a kitten which is carrying a virus, the stress will bring it out and make them very sick indeed.

Plus, you aren't able (yet) to see the condition of the other cats and work out for yourself if there is a flu issue in the cattery.

I seriously have zero confidence in this breeder giving you your money back if the kitten becomes sick or dies within a couple of weeks of you taking it. The insurance will not cover pre-existing conditions, which means if it's carrying any of the preventable, vaccinatable diseases at time of sale.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

Of course you will take it to be vaccinated, the reason people are advising you against it is that we don't want to see you paying top dollar to a breeder that doesn't do what's best for the kitten and sounds like they are only in it for the money!

It sounds like you aren't going to listen to anyone's advice but PLEASE don't take this kitten if it seems nervous and unsocialised or there seem to be any health problems cos I doubt very much if after you have handed over your money you will get any back-up or help from this person


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## LostSoul (Sep 29, 2012)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> thanks that bed looks cool. is it comfortable?
> i think ill be purchasing that
> trust me i will take it for its second vaccination asap


please get proof of the 1st vaccination.

i not sure if im right but if its been more than 3/4 weeks since his first vaccination dont you need to have that redone??

also i dont think all vets vaccinations are compatible...but again i might be wrong.


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## Little Zooey (Feb 4, 2014)

mudgekin said:


> How do you go about adopting from there and how do you get them here. I assume you have to go to Romania? What are the logistics around this


Excuse me if I just copy and paste something I sent as a PM to another member...

It works very well. We adopted Bubu about 18 months ago and then we got Bijou as a friend of his own age just before last Christmas. On Tuesday next week three more kittens start the journey and we will collect them on Saturday morning.

I would suggest befriending one of my contacts as they work so hard and are totally genuine. Most of them are, but sadly there are a few fakes out there. The kittens are cared for either in cages in vet clinics or my friend Adda has them at her uncle's flat. Supporters keep them going with parcels and donations for food and other costs. If there is a bad emergency (as with our Chai), then someone often starts a fund raiser to pay for operations or equipment (for a paralysed animal for example).

They are blood tested and the rescuers even photograph the entire process. Once they have been vaccinated and are fit to travel they can go on the next available transport. There are several, but we have only used two. Eli is Romanian and she and her team work incredibly hard. We were notified of progress and Bijou got the best of care. Their van isn't the most up to date though and this time Adda has booked us with Tonie from Essex. The cost is £150 for the transport, but new rules mean the kitties have to stay in the cattery with her for a further two days, so that is another £10. I expect our girls to hit English soil maybe Thursday evening. The drivers rotate and there is always someone in the back to take care of the animals. Both our cats arrived in wonderful condition and stress free.

They really do get the most wonderful care out there and they are so loving and well behaved. I couldn't recommend it any higher and of course, the horrors out there are ten times worse than in the UK. Our Chai was found at 10 weeks moaning in long grass in a park. She had been cut all over, her lower lip was detached, her throat slit and someone had broken both her front legs. There are no adopters out there, so this is their only hope.

Edited to add that you also get loads of updates with photographs and videos. I must have hundreds since Chai was first found about three months ago. We have had reports of all the vet visits and itemised bills - although I donated for some of those, others donated too. We had another 5 videos and 9 photographs just yesterday


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I doubt this kitten has received any vaccinations yet - the breeder believes they should be given from 15 weeks plus :frown2:

Also the breeder shows their caring side in the contract:

_"The new owner of the kitten in no way holds the breeder responsible for any accidents or illness that the above kitten may show signs of during its lifetime and is happy that the kitten is being sold as fit and healthy, showing no signs of illness on collection"

"During the first 4 weeks, the kitten will be insured with Petplan. This insurance offers 4-weeks free cover. This policy will be activated on the day the kitten is sold. If the kitten displays any symptoms of ill health during the first 4 weeks of cover or after the breeder will not be held responsible. You would need to contact Petplan or consult a vet"_

Bear in mind that the kittens have not seen a vet whilst at the breeders AT ALL. So their kittens could be leaving with any kind of disease of which they take NO responsibility at all after you have stumped up the £600.
Every time I look at their website I notice something worrying or missing from their information 

I am seriously disappointed that OP isn't listening :sad:


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> thanks that bed looks cool. is it comfortable?
> i think ill be purchasing that
> trust me i will take it for its second vaccination asap


I thought there was only males left, why are you calling your boy it?


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

moggie14 said:


> "During the first 4 weeks, the kitten will be insured with Petplan. This insurance offers 4-weeks free cover. This policy will be activated on the day the kitten is sold. *If the kitten displays any symptoms of ill health during the first 4 weeks of cover or after the breeder will not be held responsible.* You would need to contact Petplan or consult a vet"[/I]


Good grief.

The kitten could have FeLV, FIV, cat flu AND panleukopaenia, but the breeder will wash their hands of any blame.... not to mention the fact that if it can be shown that the illness/es were contracted AT the breeder's, it will render the insurance void...


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

MerlinsMum said:


> Good grief.
> 
> The kitten could have FeLV, FIV, cat flu AND panleukopaenia, but the breeder will wash their hands of any blame.... not to mention the fact that if it can be shown that the illness/es were contracted AT the breeder's, it will render the insurance void...


My thoughts too. This is probably why the breeders purposely avoid their kittens seeing a vet at all whilst in their care then merrily wave them on their way so the new owner has to deal with any potential illnesses themselves. 
I cannot find anything on the website to suggest vet checks


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## Maiaetta (Jul 3, 2014)

If the kitten hasn't had it's second vaccination within 3/4 weeks then the first vaccination is redundant I think.


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## charlieRabbit01 (Jul 1, 2014)

Alisa25 said:


> I agree with this. In my case its more of the owner being moulded by the cats.
> 
> *gets shouted at and slapped by a paw as the writing of this post interrupted a cuddle session*
> 
> My masters are strict.... :001_unsure:


I watched a comedy last night and for shouted at for laughing because I disturbed his nap.
I didn't really want my boy going outside but it would have been mean top keep him in against his will.


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## Alisa25 (May 19, 2010)

charlieRabbit01 said:


> I watched a comedy last night and for shouted at for laughing because I disturbed his nap.
> I didn't really want my boy going outside but it would have been mean top keep him in against his will.


Haha! Yep thats a regular occurrence here!  But not as bad as when Im too slow at preparing their food. I mean THAT sort of shouting is something to be reckoned with... 

Also - I have just looked at this contract everyone is talking about. I have to say - this breeder is very smart - on the surface it looks like a good one and it actually says kittens are 'vaccinated, wormed and flea treated'; yet when you get down to it and read the 'small print' it says they are NOT vaccinated. Now I know some people wouldnt even look at the contract before seeing the kitten and probably paying a deposit.... :frown: As for the vet treatment issue - dont get me started.... And have they even had a vet check up at all???? :shocked: Very dodgy. VERY.

OP - I wouldnt touch this breeder with a 10ft pole either - get out whilst you can. :frown:


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

It? So you don't even know the sex of the kitten you're planning to pay top whack for and commit to keeping for the next 20 years without even seeing?

Words fail me sometimes.

If you do go with this breeder despite advice, you'll deserve what you get I'm afraid... And you're going to get lots, and lots, and lots...


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

LostSoul said:


> please get proof of the 1st vaccination.
> 
> i not sure if im right but if its been more than 3/4 weeks since his first vaccination dont you need to have that redone??
> 
> also i dont think all vets vaccinations are compatible...but again i might be wrong.


You are right, vaccines are not interchangeable. The same make or a compatible vaccine must be used for the second vaccine or the initial vaccine must be repeated and then followed by the second vaccine of the same type.

As vaccines are not purchased singly, the owner's vet will not want to purchase a batch for just 1 feline, so they will most likely suggest starting the vax course again. Might suggest the owner finds a vet using compatible vaccines, but vet risks losing client....


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Alisa25 said:


> I have just looked at this contract everyone is talking about. I have to say - this breeder is very smart - on the surface it looks like a good one and it actually says kittens are 'vaccinated, wormed and flea treated'; yet when you get down to it and read the 'small print' it says they are NOT vaccinated.


The contract clearly states kittens are NOT vaccinated. The breeder is not hiding this in small print


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## Alisa25 (May 19, 2010)

moggie14 said:


> The contract clearly states kittens are NOT vaccinated. The breeder is not hiding this in small print


Go on the Russian blue page with the kittens. It says vaccinated.


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## tmerc22 (Jul 21, 2014)

It's all very misleading...says they are vaccinated but the contract of sale (what actually counts) says they are not.
Looks like we are wasting our time trying to help, she's made up her mind.
I hope it does work out but I think this person is too imature to own a cat, my 4yr old always wants things 'now now now' The posts remind me of conversations I have with him not a responsible pet owner.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Oh yes, sorry my mistake I was just looking at the contract new owners sign which says not vaccinated.
I've just checked the kitten page which does state vaccinated 
Perhaps the breeder changed their mind when they realised how expensive vaccinating would be


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

relax fellas. i am an exquisite:thumbup1: cat owner. i love my animals more than anything


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

you lot are going way too over the top!
i will look out for any signs of illness and take it to the vets within the first week. just because it hasn't had its second vaccination doesn't mean the cat is stricken with every disease under the sun


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

fhhfhejne`jtjet


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

sFSfdagDAFGFH


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## LostSoul (Sep 29, 2012)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> you lot are going way too over the top!
> i will look out for any signs of illness and take it to the vets within the first week. just because it hasn't had its second vaccination doesn't mean the cat is stricken with every disease under the sun


no it doesnt...but it doesnt mean its healthy either.

i wont pretend to know what youre going through ive never brought from a breeder but i know i would want to have interacted with the cats before i paid for them...i hope that youre new fur baby is fit and healthy and you have many happy years together but people here are trying to warn you of the dangers, these are people who have brought from breeders or who are breeders so they know whats right and whats wrong...at the end of the day these people are the people you asked for advice...you cant just ignore the answers because you dont agree with them.

remember that your vets vaccinations might not be compatible with the first jab the kittens had, so you may need to have the first one done again especially if its been more than 3 weeks since the first jab.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> you lot are going way too over the top!


No we're not. 
Maybe you've never bought a cat from a crap breeder, or seen other people buying cats from crap breeders.

Doesn't make you right.

Those of us who have been breeders, or been around breeders, are best qualified to flag up anything dodgy. Because we've seen it all before.

You go on ahead if you like. We can't stop you...... but at least we tried.


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## tmerc22 (Jul 21, 2014)

You obviously are going to do what you want regardless, not sure why you came on here for advice as you think you know it all and now you are not getting the answers you want your being rude. 
I hope your kitten is well and things turn out ok, shame about your attitude towards genuine experienced cat loving people trying to help you.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> what the **** could be so sinister about it carly ffs. this man will see me and know not to try a ting. i dont give a **** if he doesnt molest his cats like u do it will be clear to me if its some abused little cat. and at that point i will slap him and say give me my deposit back u crooked ****.


I'm not sure it's even worth replying to this. 
When the process of buying a healthy, well socialised, well bred cat comes down to threats of slaps and accusations - then that is more of an indictment of the buyer than the seller.

If that's the way you think honest transactions are done then F***ing good luck to you.

You'll get what you deserve.... nothing more and nothing less.


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

Just playing. Please relax. It's going to be ok.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

But you are not playing nicely - best be careful or you'll be sent to the naughty step.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> Just playing. Please relax. It's going to be ok.


Sorry, this isn't a play issue. 
Unless you are a troll.


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## Merenwenrago (Sep 5, 2010)

Don't see the point of asking for advice when you already bought it which doesn't make sense and 350 pounds is a crazy price for a cat.

It is like buying a cat tree for a crazy price then coming here and asking for advice on what cat trees to buy when you already made the purchase and nothing anyone says would do anything.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Methinks it's time to end this thread.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Merenwenrago said:


> and 350 pounds is a crazy price for a cat.


£600 apparently - unvaccinated and from a breeder that has been flagged up as dodgy.

I smell troll


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## Merenwenrago (Sep 5, 2010)

MerlinsMum said:


> £600 apparently - unvaccinated and from a breeder that has been flagged up as dodgy.
> 
> I smell troll


If not a troll must be stupid sadly


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> what the **** could be so sinister about it carly ffs. this man will see me and know not to try a ting. i dont give a **** if he doesnt molest his cats like u do it will be clear to me if its some abused little cat. and at that point i will slap him and say give me my deposit back u crooked ****.


You sad, uninformed, pathetic little person. Enjoy the green berry I just gave you - it should have been red - hopefully someone else will rectify my mistake.


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## Aubrie30 (Aug 10, 2014)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> lil 60 pound vaccination, a calm 600. its caj .
> if the cat becomes ill within the first few weeks i will go back to wales and hurl several bricks through his window. This **** will not hear the end of it.
> But on a positive note hopefully i get my kitten it is friendly and i will take it to the vet in the coming few days and say make my kitten immune and better. and ill go back and have a lovely life with my little furry bundle of joy and you will all suck on my gonads brah :thumbup1:


I was unaware there were adults who actually spoke this way :shocked:

You have received some brilliant advice on this thread, RIPMUFFIN. You have chosen to ignore it and have insulted the members kind enough to help you. So I think all that's left is to wish you the best of luck with your new kitten... because luck is exactly what you are going to need.


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## anachronism (Jan 30, 2014)

MCWillow said:


> You sad, uninformed, pathetic little person. Enjoy the green berry I just gave you - it should have been red - hopefully someone else will rectify my mistake.


I gave negative rep for that, i was disgusted by the language


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## Merenwenrago (Sep 5, 2010)

How did Ripmuffin make it on the site with that colourful language?


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

I think we've been advising a teenager who can't even drive to Wales never mind think rationally.

Damn these school holidays.


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

I'm genuinely not trolling I've just seen enough pictures of this kitten to know I want it. Sorry for being rude I was just frustrated by all the negativity . Let's end this thread. Btw, just relax it's not that bad. Dodgy because he doesn't follow all these anal things. Ok then fine. Call it dodgy but ill love and care for this cat and have it properly vaccinated. Just because he may be a prick doesn't mean the cat is gonna be ridden with diseases. I mean there's a chance but not a huge one so why have such a go. £600 is not a lot of money to me I'm a boss


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

I'm 23 yearold and drive a Mini Cooper but I'll be going in my mums souped up 3 litre engine BMW soft top. Will be a blast


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## Alisa25 (May 19, 2010)

Disgusting and immature.  I dont think its an adult everyone btw. 
I sincerely hope you leave this forum. This is a nice and friendly community, always ready to help and listen. Stop tarnishing it with your vile posts. :frown:


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

U man r all moist cuz
U act like this person injects his cats with aids. I'm a boss 6 bills is calm fam


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

no i fully respect this forum. i admire all your knowledge. i just felt attacked and that u went a bit over board and paranoid. thanks for your advice hopefully i wont regret my choice. i dont see how i will. its a bluddy cat. i love cats. specially ones proven to be russian blue. vaccinated or not my kitty will get its vaccination


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## tmerc22 (Jul 21, 2014)

Definitely a little girl bored on her school holidays...


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

you lot all seem to be crying because im spending like £200 too much. oh well. i pay for speed. are you all really that broke?


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> U man r all moist cuz
> U act like this person injects his cats with aids. I'm a boss 6 bills is calm fam


What on earth has happened to you?


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

why would a little girl post something so detailed about breeding and saying how it has a certificate etc. etc. Im a 23 year old male for god sake and i am not an expert on breeding thats why i came here. im not and i repeat not waitng months for some fancy ass breeder. it will be a lovely kitten and your ruining it for me. i will get it seen to by the vet and if its bad i will drive down to wales and demand my money


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## Bluefluffybirmans (Jun 9, 2014)

MollyMilo said:


> What on earth has happened to you?


I know, it's all gone very bizarre!


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

You came wanting advice which is great and something more people should do. But reacting badly when the replies given aren't those you were wanting isn't.

Bluefluffybirmans - Even moreso, two posts have been edited/ deleted and replaced with a collection of letters. But no matter - both have been quoted within replies already, so more of an anti-disguise really.


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

blue fluffy birmans. i bet my birman is more handsome than yours


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> U man r all moist cuz
> U act like this person injects his cats with aids. I'm a boss 6 bills is calm fam


23 year old male? Really?


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

and yes i'm aware one is a siamese. thats my dear , recently passed siamese. the birman is still going strong, aiwaiting his russian blue friend :aureola:


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## LostSoul (Sep 29, 2012)

Personally the most ive ever spent on a cat is £20, not because i cant afford to pay more but because i refuse to, ive paid that twice and one of those included the price of a vet visit, i cant imagine spending so much money on a cat when shelters are full to bursting and there are so many unwanted kittens. 
i wouldnt part with £600 unless i was 100%sure everything was checked, made sure it was legal and above all cats are healthy, i cant see how a cat that hasnt been seen by a vet can have had its first jab...i know it doesnt mean its unhealthy...but it just might.

i dont understand why you ask for advice and competely ignore it, what happens if the kitten has something contagious and it spreads it to your cats??
please dont say you'll find out at the vets because by then it could be too late...for me taking in a stray or a neglected cat is a choice and a risk i make, buying from a breeder shouldnt be a risk...you asked for advice you were told the kitten is too young but your mind is made up...i know you lost a cat and trust me i 100% know what it feels like to want to fill that void, i lost Mac in april from something, the vets couldnt say what but possible something he inherited from one or both of his parents, he was just 23 months old and i loved him completely, a month ago i took in Finn who was then 6 weeks...i thought it would be easy and he settled in straight away but for me loving him hasnt been straight forward, hes not Mac, hes not filling the hole mac left, he's not fixing me....hes Finn and he wont ever be Mac and i needed to accept that before i could bond with him and accept him...maybe you wont understand why im telling you this and youve ignored everything else but i just wonder if youre getting this cat for the right reasons...you act like a child who wants everything now and you dont really care what the consequences are.

no matter what OP i really do wish you well with the kitten and i hope all the worry is over nothing and i do hope you will let us know how it went.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> and yes i'm aware one is a siamese. thats my dear , recently passed siamese. the birman is still going strong, aiwaiting his russian blue friend :aureola:


You [email protected] - nothing more to say - true colours always come out and you are like a fecking rainbow.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Where's the moderator when you want one? Enough is enough.


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

huckybuck said:


> Where's the moderator when you want one? Enough is enough.


Lynn is on holiday having a lovely time, we should all play nice xx

Time to go ripmuffin


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

Lost Souls id love to show you how it all goes but it appears im not wanted any more.
how do i delete the thread????


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> you lot all seem to be crying because im spending like £200 too much. oh well. i pay for speed. are you all really that broke?


Oh, it's not the _actual_ money we care about. Many of us, myself included, have met and handled cats that make a £600 price tag look like pocket change. It's the fact the breeder is dodgy and doesn't do right by his cats, kittens or buyers that we care about. That he overcharges for an inferior service is the last thing on the list.

Well, if you're determined to go ahead anyway, your call - although why you took the trouble to ask for advice if you're going to ignore it all I'm not side, especially when it was not YOU anyone was criticising (well, until you went postal on people), but the breeder. But please bear in mind you are about to indulge in the feline equivalent of buying your BMW from a less than reputable dealer with no MOT, no history check and no guarantee. If you're happy with that scenario, that's your decision - though I remember only too well how when my bro bought a car with heart, not head, and it turned out to be an expensive mistake. And he's a very bright man.



MollyMilo said:


> What on earth has happened to you?


He pays for Speed...


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## Alisa25 (May 19, 2010)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> Lost Souls id love to show you how it all goes but it appears im not wanted any more.
> how do i delete the thread????


Ok you need to stop. Nobody said you're 'not wanted any more'. You were welcomed to the forum and given heaps of advice. Everyone here is wishing you well, trying to protect you! But you proceed to insult and curse at everyone, some members in particular. What did you expect? :mad2:


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## RIPMUFFIN (Aug 19, 2014)

haha good one. listen chaps. lovely website no hard feelings.
im sorry


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## LostSoul (Sep 29, 2012)

RIPMUFFIN said:


> Lost Souls id love to show you how it all goes but it appears im not wanted any more.
> how do i delete the thread????


it isnt that youre not wanted its that people here are all passionate about cats and sometimes things get a bit out of control, they dont want you getting conned and hurt and they certainly dont want the fur baby to be sick, you have your opinion and nothing we can say will change your mind but everyone here has their opinions too and criticising and name calling certainly doesnt help...i do think this thread is done but trust me the people here are lovely and very helpful and when you get your baby whether it be straight forward or not they will be here if you need them again...especially if you decide to listen to them 
and im sure all..well ok some..would love to see photos of the little one.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Thank you to the poster who quoted the op. This is now closed....Jill


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