# Applaws wet/dry mixed diet



## Nattie (Jan 23, 2011)

Hi all,

I have a couple of food questions.

One question is whether it's ok to continue feeding my cats Applaws pouches every day in combination with Applaws or Orijen dry? I feed them one pouch and 20-30g per day each. Aside from one, 3 of my cats are average 4kg indoor kitties, aged 2.

I'm asking because I've been browsing Hobbs2004 wonderful wet and dry food lists (thank you for those) and it seems feeding Applaws pouches has the following issues:
-it's a complementary food
-Ca ratio
-low fat content
So - does the 20-30g per day of dry food cancel out the issues from the pouches? 

My other question is: what other meat (not tuna) pouches are there with as good quality ingredients as Applaws but without the issues? I am particularly interested in pouches because my cats are not huge fans of pate (although they will eat it) and I am always a little suspicious of the consistency of pate - it doesn't seem very natural. I am not a huge fan of tins because I am concerned about the chemicals that they use to coat the inside of tins can leech into the food, and I also find that some coatings can scrape off when you spoon out the food. And finally, I do give them tuna and other fish based foods but not as a main food because I am concerned about the levels of heavy metals. 

Unfortunately, in Romania where I live, there is not the best choice of high end brands, either in shops or on Romanian sites, and I was initially over-joyed to be able to get Applaws here. Also, not many online shops will ship to Romania. However, I have emailed Tatzenladen to see if they will. Schesir, Smussy, Almo Natur and Miramor are the main other high end brands actually available here. But regardless of that, if anyone has any suggestions as to better pouches please mention them as I would move mountains to get my fam the best! If there are no better pouches, but it's not a good idea to remain with Applaws, then I would definitely consider pate options. 

Sorry if I seem very fussy! 

And thanks in advance for any help whatsoever! 

Nattie and cat fam x


----------



## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Hiya Natti, welcome to the pf! And no, I don't think you are fussy! Well, if you consider that fussy, then I don't know what I would be? A character from a Woody Allen film perhaps. 

Anyhow, according the Applaws and co, you can feed 60% of their wet food and 40% of their dry food. Though I am currently battling it out with Almo Nature because they aren't even admitting in writing and in black and white that their food is even complementary .

So, that is what the manufacturers say. But think about it, the recommended portion for dry food on its on is a certain amount to make sure that a cat gets all the nutrients s/he needs from the food. 

So, if you are feeding half a food that hardly contains any nutrients and then only half of the food that contains all they need but no excess, well the equation to me just doesn't add up. 

Schessir, Almo Nature and Applaws are all in the same boat (some of the Schesir tins are allegedly complete foods but still don't contain enough fat.) Miamor imo is on par with Felix and Co.

If you think pate food is unnatural then think again. Shredded cooked meat isn't "natural" either. Neither are compressed, processed foods in jelly or gravy. The large advantage of pate foods is that they do not contain many fillers such as jelly and gravy and as a result are the ones with the higher meat content (making it a more natural product in ingredients and analysis but not look).

But considering that you are struggling with availability I would get my hands on as many high quality foods as you can - regardless of consistency - and feed that. 

Unfortunately, Tatzenladen is scaling down there wet food offer but contact Christian at Catfood24 to see whether they would post to Romania. The huge advantage of getting food from Catfood24 now is that they stock some of the best cat foods your money can buy (in terms of ingredients without putting too much of a dent into your purse - well less or the same as Applaws and co would). The foods I am thinking of are Petnatur, Granatapet, Macs, Grau. All pates though 

They also stock Porta 21 who do a kitten food, which is the only shredded meat that has a great fat content and which is a complete food. 

Hope that helps but I would suggest that regardless of what foods you go with, rotate different brands if you can!


----------



## mrswoodwoose (Jan 23, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Anyhow, according the Applaws and co, you can feed 60% of their wet food and 40% of their dry food. Though I am currently battling it out with Almo Nature because they aren't even admitting in writing and in black and white that their food is even complementary .
> 
> So, that is what the manufacturers say. But think about it, the recommended portion for dry food on its on is a certain amount to make sure that a cat gets all the nutrients s/he needs from the food.
> 
> ...


Hello hobbs24!!

Firstly many thanks for all you valuable input re cat food nutrition - I have a 21years old diabetic cat with Chronic Renal failure and so I have had to educate myself rapidly!! This complementary cat food thing cheeses me off big time: the writing is tiny tiny on the packaging and no-one "normal" would read this and suspect it is not a normal cat food product. They are also kept on supermarket shelves alongside other foods and so there is no visual barrier to indicate a difference.

And why do they want us to buy 2 products when so many others provide the nutrition needed in one product?? Doh!

I feel there should be some sort of campaign to make supermarkets and online retailers aware of this - I contacted a large online retailer and they amended their website to say "complimentary" cat food in a clear manner.

The phosphorous ration is outrageous too. Totally unnecessary.

Thanks,

Kay


----------



## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

mrswoodwoose said:


> Hello hobbs24!!
> 
> Firstly many thanks for all you valuable input re cat food nutrition - I have a 21years old diabetic cat with Chronic Renal failure and so I have had to educate myself rapidly!! This complementary cat food thing cheeses me off big time: the writing is tiny tiny on the packaging and no-one "normal" would read this and suspect it is not a normal cat food product. They are also kept on supermarket shelves alongside other foods and so there is no visual barrier to indicate a difference.
> 
> ...


Hiya Kay, welcome to the pf! Sorry to hear about your diabetic and CRF cat. I presume you have read Tanya's CRF site and signed up to their group?

You and me both re the complementary food. I curse the day some bright spark came up with the idea of producing what is essentially treat food but then instead of making it clear that it doesn't contain all cats need market it as "natural" food. Pulling in the punters because who doesn't want to feed "natural" food, right?

I had Applaws (I think) tell me that they don't put complementary on their tins because there is no space! But kudos to them, that is the first thing they tell you when you phone up!

Almo Nature, well a completely different story. According to them, the food is as good as if you got it from the butchers. Yeah, minus the offal, the bones etc. Again, no space on their tins to state clearly that you should feed dry with it.


----------



## mrswoodwoose (Jan 23, 2011)

hobbs24: 

How do you feel about us(you!)writing a sample, set letter of complaint and it can then be easily modified and sent to any company/organisation? 

I really feel strongly about this, there are people only feeding complimentary cat food that must be harming their cats, and they just aren't made aware of the nutritional facts. 

Perhaps if we sent enough of these letters out some companies would take notice? And perhaps bring some pressure on the manufacturer?


----------



## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

mrswoodwoose said:


> hobbs24:
> 
> How do you feel about us(you!)writing a sample, set letter of complaint and it can then be easily modified and sent to any company/organisation?
> 
> ...


What companies/organisations are you talking about? The shops that sell that food? Being pragmatic, I don't think that is going to work. They will want to sell the food (if is after all quite an expensive food), which again sells better if it is sold as "natural". The shops that care about the type of food they sell tend to be the ones that also put a note on that dry food needs to be fed alongside it.

The manufacturers? Well, they are just sticking by their "philosophy" of providing "natural" additive-free food. With somewhere in their FAQs that dry food should be fed alongside it.

So, in my mind, the best campaign is to educate the consumers! Which is what this site and many other sites are doing!


----------



## mrswoodwoose (Jan 23, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> What companies/organisations are you talking about? The shops that sell that food? Being pragmatic, I don't think that is going to work.


Yes, I think that companies like Waitrose would take note, especially if they had enough letters, ditto Sainsbury's. I say this because I used to hassle these kind of retailers years ago re another issue close to my heart, and altho it took time and it wasn't just me who changed their policies, change was affected. if they need to make changes to their store layout to make it clearer for the consumer, they may just decide not to stock the extra hassle product or they may query their supplier.

I guess every link in the chain is worth contacting as I think most people buy food from major supermarkets. And most people don't analyse the ingredients - who can blame us as it is so misleading.

Yes, educating consumers is best but I think I can manage to print,say, 15 letters and send them off and feel that I have taken some positive action. Or carry then with me when I do my next shop.


----------



## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

mrswoodwoose said:


> Yes, I think that companies like Waitrose would take note, especially if they had enough letters, ditto Sainsbury's. I say this because I used to hassle these kind of retailers years ago re another issue close to my heart, and altho it took time and it wasn't just me who changed their policies, change was affected. if they need to make changes to their store layout to make it clearer for the consumer, they may just decide not to stock the extra hassle product or they may query their supplier.
> 
> I guess every link in the chain is worth contacting as I think most people buy food from major supermarkets. And most people don't analyse the ingredients - who can blame us as it is so misleading.
> 
> Yes, educating consumers is best but I think I can manage to print,say, 15 letters and send them off and feel that I have taken some positive action. Or carry then with me when I do my next shop.


Do supermarkets sell this type of food? Don't think they do.

Waitrose don't.

Sainsbury do but only their own food brand - encore, which is repackaged Applaws. And they say that it is complementary food.

My concern would be the smaller pet shops.


----------



## Nattie (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks, Hobbs 2004, for your helpful reply! I suspected as much about the dry food not really making up for the lack of nutrition in pouches - I was just being hopeful. I will definitely look at the pates instead but I am still nervous about the tins. 

I have contacted Catfood24 and see what they say. In the meantime though, I'm not sure what to do given the limited choices available to me within Romania. Should I continue with the Applaws pouches until (hopefully) I can order from somewhere like Catfood24, should I switch to one of the other pouches available here (as I mentioned: Schesir, Almo Natur, Miamor, plus Whiskas etc), or should I cut the pouches and feed them the full amount of dry, which is at least complete? 

Thanks again!

Nattie plus 4


----------



## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Nattie said:


> Thanks, Hobbs 2004, for your helpful reply! I suspected as much about the dry food not really making up for the lack of nutrition in pouches - I was just being hopeful. I will definitely look at the pates instead but I am still nervous about the tins.
> 
> I have contacted Catfood24 and see what they say. In the meantime though, I'm not sure what to do given the limited choices available to me within Romania. Should I continue with the Applaws pouches until (hopefully) I can order from somewhere like Catfood24, should I switch to one of the other pouches available here (as I mentioned: Schesir, Almo Natur, Miamor, plus Whiskas etc), or should I cut the pouches and feed them the full amount of dry, which is at least complete?
> 
> ...


Nattie, I am not a great fan of a dry only diet per se.

But it would be an option to just feed them that until you have found food you are happy with.

Having said that Schmusy is not a bad food (85% meat content, some grains) but a lot of jelly in the pouch too. Miamor, similar to Schmusy in consistency but a lower meat content but also in a pouch. Whiskas supermeat, the pate stuff, hasn't got a bad meat content. Definitely not Almo Nature but check out the Schesir tins to see whether you can get your hands on the few that are complete.

I presume you don't want to feed tins because of BPA? Have you checked whether the pet food manufacturers whose food you could get use BPA in their tins and if yes, whether they use them within low limits?

Only stuff I saw recently (a couple of years ago) was the alleged link between tinned food and hyperthyroidism in cats, where BPA may or may not have a role to play.

Not really looked into it because I presumed that was more of a US problem than a European one.


----------



## Nattie (Jan 23, 2011)

About a year ago, before I gave up eating tuna (I used to be a pescatarian, now I'm a full veggie), I noticed that when I was emptying the cans, the coating would be scraping off with the food. Even when being very gentle with the spoon against the side of the can, some scrapings would come off. This was with a couple of high end brands too. I started using my finger to empty the can, but anyway, pretty soon after I gave up fish all together, so I didn't really investigate further as it became irrelevant. Anyway, I guess my thinking was that if it scraped off so easily, it may well leech into the food easily too. Not very scientific I know, but seeing the coating scrape off like that was pretty nasty. And this was for high end human food.

I suppose I could try the cans and see what they're like, and scoop out the food with my finger if necessary (although being veggie, it would be nice if I could use a spoon!). And I will definitely email the manufacturers to ask them - thanks for the tip. 

OK, I guess there's not much more to decide until I find out if those two German sites will ship here. If they do - I'm looking at Macs, Porta 21 kitten, Pfotenliebe, Petnatur, and Grau. If not... well, I'll cross that bridge. 

Oh, I couldn't find Granatapet on your fab list. How do you rate it? 

Thanks again!


----------



## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Nattie said:


> About a year ago, before I gave up eating tuna (I used to be a pescatarian, now I'm a full veggie), I noticed that when I was emptying the cans, the coating would be scraping off with the food. Even when being very gentle with the spoon against the side of the can, some scrapings would come off. This was with a couple of high end brands too. I started using my finger to empty the can, but anyway, pretty soon after I gave up fish all together, so I didn't really investigate further as it became irrelevant. Anyway, I guess my thinking was that if it scraped off so easily, it may well leech into the food easily too. Not very scientific I know, but seeing the coating scrape off like that was pretty nasty. And this was for high end human food.
> 
> I suppose I could try the cans and see what they're like, and scoop out the food with my finger if necessary (although being veggie, it would be nice if I could use a spoon!). And I will definitely email the manufacturers to ask them - thanks for the tip.
> 
> ...


I don't have Granatapet on my list as there used to be no petshop who stocked it who would send it to the UK at a decent price. But Catfood24 stock it now, so will include it.

Ingredients- and analysis-wise it is up there with the best. Whether your cats will agree - well, that is a completely different story


----------



## mrswoodwoose (Jan 23, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Do supermarkets sell this type of food? Don't think they do.
> 
> Waitrose don't.
> 
> Sainsbury do but only their own food brand - encore, which is repackaged Applaws. And they say that it is complementary food.


Waitrose sell own brand complimentary catfood and I *think* some Hi-Life (not sure) but recently went there and was amazed at the amount of complimentary cat food on offer! I'll try make a list next time I go there. I think the other big culprit are online stores.


----------



## mrswoodwoose (Jan 23, 2011)

Nattie said:


> In the meantime though, I'm not sure what to do given the limited choices available to me within Romania. S


Hello, have a look at the zoolpus website, I'm not sure if they ship to Romania, but there shipping costs are low, or free over a certain amount and they have the best online range of GOOD catfood, if nothing else their nutritional info on each product is great - very useful and I haven't seen such detail on any other site. (no I don't work for them)


----------



## Nattie (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks for the tip, but as I said, Zooplus don't ship to Romania. I can't find a British based site that does.


----------



## Nattie (Jan 23, 2011)

The good news is, I heard back from Tatzenladen who will ship to Romania for 12.55 Euros if I spend over 60 Euros. Hurray! They still seem to sell quite a few brands so I hope whatever scaling down they want to do, they've done it already.

I am still waiting to hear back from Catfood 24. I hope I'm using their support ticket system correctly!

Anyway, Tatzenladen sell Petnatur, Grau and Pfotenliebe, but I have one additional question about Pfotenliebe: various cans seem to contain millet, spelt, and oats - aren't these grains and therefore bad? Or are they not as bad as the usual suspects? Thanks for any info on that!


----------



## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Nattie said:


> The good news is, I heard back from Tatzenladen who will ship to Romania for 12.55 Euros if I spend over 150 Euros (with 4 cats it's just about doable if I bulk buy for a month or 2 in advance). Hurray! They still seem to sell quite a few brands so I hope whatever scaling down they want to do, they've done it already.
> 
> I am still waiting to hear back from Catfood 24. I hope I'm using their support ticket system correctly!
> 
> Anyway, Tatzenladen sell Petnatur, Grau and Pfotenliebe, but I have one additional question about Pfotenliebe: various cans seem to contain millet, spelt, and oats - aren't these grains and therefore bad? Or are they not as bad as the usual suspects? Thanks for any info on that!


I will pm you the email address for my contact at Catfood24. I queried something too and haven't heard back so they must be busy.

Re the pfotenliebe, yes, they are still classed as "grains" but like Grau they follow the philosophy that cats would take in some grains through their prey (and eat fur/feathers etc) so they are using these as sources of fibre.

The only "issue" I currently have with Pfotenliebe, and I am waiting on them for clarification, is that they don't add certain vitamins, minerals and trace elements because they are already included in the stuff they are including (unfortunately they don't seem to provide a full nutritional analysis online).

PS: Tatzenladen has some stock left over from when they were selling Mac's (turkey and rice), which is slightly reduced. Found in the "Fundgrube".

If you are interested in raw feeding, then also check out the TCPremix, which is a handy way into raw feeding - you just need to add water, meat and liver. My cats occasional get this and they love it!

Oh, and if you are looking for healthy snacks then I can highly recommend their dried chicken breast!


----------



## Nattie (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks for the contact via PM and the discount Mac's tip!

I heard back from Catfood24 - Christian reckons it would cost a whopping 63 Euros to send me a monthly supply of wet food (about 12kg). This is rather prohibitive, but I've asked him why it's so much more than Tatzenladen and also whether smaller packages would be at a more reasonable rate. I know beggars can't be choosers, and I'm very happy that Tatzenladen (I'm placing an order right now) are a real option, but I was hoping I could order from Catfood24 - they've got so much choice! 

Anyway, we'll see what he says. If smaller packets are affordable, at least I can order something from there, and who knows, he might even offer to send it the same way Tatzenladen do so that he can offer a comparable rate. I'll let you know for reference's sake.

Anyway, thanks very much for all the help, advice and information! It's very much appreciated! :thumbup:


----------



## Nattie (Jan 23, 2011)

Just an update, a tip for a site, and a paranoid question:

Never heard back from catfood24 so I have to say no to their 63 euros delivery!

Have ordered Grau's, Petnatur and Pfotenliebe from tatzenladen.de 

Have ordered Mac's, Tiger and GranataPet from zoobi.de - another German site which stocks the high end pet foods (including Mac's, which I don't think you can get at catfood24 anymore - can anyone confirm?) and delivers to the EU cheaply. 

Paranoid question - there's nothing wrong with beef these days, is there? My reluctance to choose beef cat foods is uneducated paranoia fuelled by memories of media scare-mongering, isn't it? I'm sure it is, but I'd just like to hear someone else say it too!!! :crazy:


----------



## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Nattie said:


> Just an update, a tip for a site, and a paranoid question:
> 
> Never heard back from catfood24 so I have to say no to their 63 euros delivery!
> 
> ...


Catfood24 has just moved warehouse or something and must have done some housekeeping on their website but you are right, the Mac's is gone. Despite me having a delivery from them just yesterday - of Mac's. Go figure.

But yes, their delivery charges have become steep!

Zoobi.de is a good one as are FuetternmitSpass. Edit: Just noticed that Zoobi now sells Granatapet! And the 800g tins of Macs!

But wow, your cat is going to have a great diet! Grau, Granatapet (did you the ostrich ones too?), Mac's and Petnature are the 4 foods that I would rate the best to be had in our parts of the world. Wowzer! And Pfotenliebe and TigerCat too?

Now I just hope your cats like pate food lol!

Nothing wrong with beef - are you thinking madcow disease? :arf: There are certain animals that shouldn't be eaten raw in Europe (e.g. pig and wild boar) but even those are ok in petfood that is cooked. Not many German foods use pork though in their "recipes".


----------



## Nattie (Jan 23, 2011)

Only the best for my babies - they're going to be eating better than me! I was really excited to have discovered zoobi, the 800g tins of Mac's are amazing value. And Granatapet - I got all the varieties!  I contacted f-m-s a while ago to see if they'll deliver to Romania but I haven't heard yet. Hopefully they'll charge similarly to zoobi (7 euro for 30kg!) because that's the only place I've found with all the grain-free Grau varieties (and at a good price). If only I'd known before that Germany produced all this great, affordable, widely available pet food! How come they can do it and we can't? 

I don't want to speak too soon, but my lot have never turned down food before, so they better not start now or there'll be trouble! 

I was thinking about BSE, foot and mouth, etc - all of those have just subconsciously merged in my mind as 'avoid beef', but in the end I chose a variety of meats (including beef - and even ostrich!) to get a balance. 

Anyway, thanks for all your help and knowledge! I'm very grateful - you've been great! :thumbup:


----------



## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Nattie said:


> Only the best for my babies - they're going to be eating better than me! I was really excited to have discovered zoobi, the 800g tins of Mac's are amazing value. And Granatapet - I got all the varieties!  I contacted f-m-s a while ago to see if they'll deliver to Romania but I haven't heard yet. Hopefully they'll charge similarly to zoobi (7 euro for 30kg!) because that's the only place I've found with all the grain-free Grau varieties (and at a good price). If only I'd known before that Germany produced all this great, affordable, widely available pet food! How come they can do it and we can't?
> 
> I don't want to speak too soon, but my lot have never turned down food before, so they better not start now or there'll be trouble!
> 
> ...


Lol, you are welcome.

Incidentally, I got all excited when Grau produced a grain-free variety but then on closer inspection it isn't actually as good as the grainy one imo. Compare the two and see for yourself. 

Or did you mean the miezelinos?


----------



## Nattie (Jan 23, 2011)

It does look like the rice varieties have a better meat/offal content and ratio than the grain-free ones, you're right. I wasn't impressed by the Miezelinos range - I can't remember why exactly, but I remember thinking (like with the Mac's gourmet) that why shell out for the expensive 'super-premium' range when the normal Grau/Mac's range is such good quality?


----------



## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Nattie said:


> It does look like the rice varieties have a better meat/offal content and ratio than the grain-free ones, you're right. I wasn't impressed by the Miezelinos range - I can't remember why exactly, but I remember thinking (like with the Mac's gourmet) that why shell out for the expensive 'super-premium' range when the normal Grau/Mac's range is such good quality?


Indeed, my thoughts exactly! Also, the grau grain variety has got a better ca/p ratio than the grainless ones. Same price but less meat and more broth....

But I guess it is sort of good news for peeps with cats who are sensitive to grains.


----------



## Easycampers (Jan 16, 2015)

Re Romania postage: As others have suggested why not just feed fresh with vitamin supplements....until you find a supplier. what about a man with van service, they operate Europe wide....

here is one at random..there are many. I would look on gumtree.

http://www.courierpoint.com/parceltoRomania


----------

