# french bulldog purchasing stud potential



## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Now have pup


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

French Bulldog Club - "rare" colours 

"Rare" or "fashionable" colours should be one of the last things on your mind when selecting for breeding potential.

And that's without even starting on the fact you want to buy a pup purely with the intention of using him as a stud but only "possibly" showing him.

There's a lot more to breeding than just having a stud in a "rare" colour and just throwing him at any bitch with a working reproductive system.


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Advice no longer needed


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## StrawberryBlonde (May 27, 2015)

As I understand the KC accepted colours for Frenchies doesn't include the 'fashionable' blue. So if your thinking of showing, you may want to stick to solid fawn or brindle. Fawn is the nicest looking imo!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

As @StrawberryBlonde said, 'blues' are not KC recognized colours so I'd avoid like the plague if your desire is to breed to KC standards. Usually those breeding 'fashionable' colours are doing so with only money in mind. And yes, showing is essential IMO in determining his 'worthiness' of being bred at a later date.


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Thank you . In terms of showing should I begin with looking for a local ringcraft class? Out of the recognised colours which one do you think would be preferably please?


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Sorry only just noticed your reply strawberry blonde. I do think fawns are beautiful too!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick but wouldn't it be better for you to become experienced in the breed, make contacts so that you have a mentor and achieve something with your dog in the show ring before you even consider getting into breeding?

This is an open forum so you will receive replies from many different view points, not just your own


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

danakay91 said:


> Thank you . In terms of showing should I begin with looking for a local ringcraft class? Out of the recognised colours which one do you think would be preferably please?


That's how I started, yes. They are invaluable for beginners IMO.

Out of the accepted colours I guess it just comes down to personal preference, or if you have a good breeder who matches you up with the puppy themselves it's just pot luck which colour you get but honestly I would focus more on establishing a good relationship with your breeder and trusting their judgements. I take it you've already informed your potential breeder that you may wish to use your dog at stud In the future? Many breeders have their dogs registration endorsed to help prevent indiscriminate breeding so this would need to be something you discuss from the beginning.


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

danakay91 said:


> Thank you . In terms of showing should I begin with looking for a local ringcraft class? Out of the recognised colours which one do you think would be preferably please?


Yes, a local ringcraft class is the best place to get started with showing. It's also great to just go and spectate at shows, even if you're not showing yourself. You can pick up so much just by watching. As for colour, I wouldn't place so much importance on it, it's far more important to go for a puppy that's a good fit for you in temperament and personality. For showing it's conformation you need to be looking at rather than colour. A dog of poor conformation won't be winning classes just because it happens to be a currently popular colour. If you're interested in the genetic basis of colours (and colour related health issues) then this website is excellent.

Why do you want to breed? And why Frenchies? They're not the easiest breed to whelp (they have a high rate of c sections, I'd expect any decent breeder to be working on self whelping line) and have the potential for a lot of conformation related health issues. You need to be really aware of these (and what conformation you should be looking/aiming for to avoid them), as well as the list of heritable health issues which can affect Frenchies but can't currently be tested for. This is all on top of those health conditions which can currently be tested for. You can see all of these, both health issues and available tests here:



> The French Bulldog has a short (brachcephalic) nose and corresponding head shape abnormalities. This may result in Brachycephalic obstructive airway syndrome (BOAS) (breathing difficulties and sometimes collapse of the larynx)
> This head shape can also produce an elongated soft palate which is a further cause of breathing problems, particularly during exercise.
> Narrowed nostrils also restrict oxygen intake.
> Difficulties with panting causing overheating.
> ...


Web link here.

I'd really recommend learning about Coefficient of Inbreeding, there's an excellent free course you can complete here. There's loads of other really useful information on the ICB website, it's really worth giving it a browse.

I'd also suggest you read these two articles about using a dog at stud:

Should I offer my dog at stud?
Thinking of using your dog at stud?

It's also worth having a look at this:

KC Novice Breeder Checklist

It's geared more towards bitch owners but it's a good indication of the level of commitment, planning and effort that should be put into breeding properly.

Frenchies have exploded in popularity over the last few years, they were the 7th most registered breed in 2013 and had jumped up to 4th in 2014. Unfortunately there are a _lot_ of unscrupulous breeders who are breeding to supply the demand for them and this can make it very difficult to find decent breeders who are really breeding for health and improved conformation.

For now I'd concentrate on finding an excellent breeder to have a potential show pup from and build up a good relationship with them, their support and knowledge will be absolutely invaluable should you then decide you wish to pursue breeding. You will also need their support as good breeders tend to endorse their puppies, meaning that until the endorsement is lifted (often when conditions such as health testing and show/working/competing accomplishments have been met) none of that dog's progeny can be registered with the KC.

I hope at least some of that is useful information


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

A lot of the "Rare" and or fashionable colours are rare for a reason, because they are associated with health problems and issues, so you will find that ethical good breeders will not breed for that reason.

Rare colours and why you shouldn't breed, are on the link below which is from the French Bulldog club of England Breed club
http://www.frenchbulldogclubofengland.org.uk/rare-colours.html

This link goes into detail which is also on the club website.

http://www.frenchbulldogclubofengla...7418/beware_if_you_see_adverts_like_these.pdf

There is also a buyer beware section on the puppy buying advice part of the forum which is very helpful.

http://www.frenchbulldogclubofengland.org.uk/buyer-beware.html

There is lots of other help, advice, and contact details too on the site so worth checking out thoroughly.

http://www.frenchbulldogclubofengland.org.uk/


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

danakay91 said:


> Hi there, I'm new here and I'm really looking for some advice off people who have knowledge in French bulldogs. My husband and I have decided to purchase a French bulldog puppy and we have the intention of using this pup as a stud in the future and even possibly showing the pup (if we opt for the right colour). We have viewed two pups that were not suitable. What I would like to know is in terms of studding a Frenchie what colour is most desirable? Do we opt for a recognised colour and if so which? or do we go for a fashion color? if so which?
> We are going to view two pups later today from the same litter. Good pedigree, parents heath tested and clear, pups KC, chipped, vaccinated, wormed, flead and Dna certificate. One pup is blue/ white pied and the other is brindle. Blue is advertised as carrying at/ay Dd ky Kbr. Brindle at/ay Dd Kbr. What does this mean please? I understand the Dd being blue but what about the others? out of the two pups which one would be more desirable and at a guess what price would you pay for a pup like this?


I think the real concern is that you are considering buying a puppy to be used as a stud before you know anything like the depth of knowledge of the breed. Breeding, either breeding yourself or having a stud dog is the end of the journey, not a starting poitn.

Why are you wanting to get a puppy you can use as a stud dog?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

If you want, in the future, for your boy to be in demand at stud, it isn't as simple as going and buying a puppy.

You need to go to a few shows, talk to people who show and also breed for the showring. Take note of which lines are winning and try to buy a pup from one of those lines.

You then need to campaign your pup and, if he does well, you may be approached by someone who thinks he is a good match for their bitch.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Why do you want a Frenchie? What experience do you have in the breed? I'd concentrate on learning about the breed, the breed standard, showing and then maybe once you know the breed and are established in the breed look at breeding. Good ethical breeders won't allow their dogs to go to people they don't know without them having endorsements. The fact you don't know the recognised colours and are more interested in the most desirable colour concerns me.. A desirable dog is more than colour!


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

Pick a health tested, healthy dog in a colour you like. He should be your pet first and foremost.

Your post makes it seem like all you are interested in is breeding him and him being a colour that will make you the most money thats why you are going to get replies you probably dont want.


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Thanks all  , yes all breeders we have met so far are aware that we want to use as a stud in future and all have offered full support. Unfortunately both pups yesterday were again not suitable. I'm fully aware of breed standard hence why I haven't found the right pup yet and why I quoted in regards to showing (if we pick the right colour). In terms of whelping difficulties I do not intend at any point to purchase a bitch and will only use our dog as stud to people who have knowledge and experience themselves with a bitch who is also true to type and health tested. I have now learnt about the dna and know exactly what I want in terms of a pup. I will be choosing a recognised colour with the intention of showing and have got in contact with a local ringcraft class yesterday afternoon. I do have experience in breeding but with staffordshire bull terriers and I owned the bitch and used a stud. I will not be buying any pup just because the price is right and it's cute. I'm looking for quality and I do not mind waiting for the right pup. Thank you all who gave me some great advice


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Amelia66 said:


> Pick a health tested, healthy dog in a colour you like. He should be your pet first and foremost.
> 
> Your post makes it seem like all you are interested in is breeding him and him being a colour that will make you the most money thats why you are going to get replies you probably dont want.


I did state that the pups were health tested. Yes I want a colour that is desirable in terms of breeding.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Conformation is more important than colour, second only to health. Colour should be on the bottom of the list of criteria for choosing a dog.


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Meezey said:


> Why do you want a Frenchie? What experience do you have in the breed? I'd concentrate on learning about the breed, the breed standard, showing and then maybe once you know the breed and are established in the breed look at breeding. Good ethical breeders won't allow their dogs to go to people they don't know without them having endorsements. The fact you don't know the recognised colours and are more interested in the most desirable colour concerns me.. A desirable dog is more than colour!


I do know the recognised breed colours hence why I stated (if I pick the right colour) on my original post. I have only viewed pups where both parents have been health tested and clear and where they come from good breeding lines and even then none were suitable. The experience I have of the breed is purely through grooming frenchies and of course researching about the breed but I didnt go as far into genetics as I should have prior to writing this post (which i have now done). As for desireable colours. I know that the quality of a pup far outweighs coat colour. But at the same time I see people literally trying to give away brindle pups down my area. People just are not as interested in them as they are pieds, fawn and yes the fashion colours. Is it wrong of me to think that when I choose to stud my dog that potential breeders will look at what pups he is likely to produce and that they will want to have a desirable looking stud to show potential buyers of pups?


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

danakay91 said:


> Hi there, I'm new here and I'm really looking for some advice off people who have knowledge in French bulldogs. My husband and I have decided to purchase a French bulldog puppy and we have the intention of using this pup as a stud in the future and even possibly showing the pup (if we opt for the right colour). We have viewed two pups that were not suitable. What I would like to know is in terms of studding a Frenchie what colour is most desirable? Do we opt for a recognised colour and if so which? or do we go for a fashion color? if so which?
> We are going to view two pups later today from the same litter. Good pedigree, parents heath tested and clear, pups KC, chipped, vaccinated, wormed, flead and Dna certificate. One pup is blue/ white pied and the other is brindle. Blue is advertised as carrying at/ay Dd ky Kbr. Brindle at/ay Dd Kbr. What does this mean please? I understand the Dd being blue but what about the others? out of the two pups which one would be more desirable and at a guess what price would you pay for a pup like this?


Go away.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

danakay9 said:


> In terms of whelping difficulties I do not intend at any point to purchase a bitch and will only use our dog as stud to people who have knowledge and experience themselves with a bitch who is also true to type and health tested.


You need to be conscious of ALL health and conformation issues in the breed and should be doing whatever you can to work away from them..... not just dismissing it because it's of no direct concern to your dog!!!
If your future money maker... Oh, sorry I mean pet... is product of a bitch who is unable to self-whelp, then surely using him as a stud is just perpetuating the problem?


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Burrowzig said:


> Conformation is more important than colour, second only to health. *Colour should be on the bottom of the list of criteria for choosing a dog.*




That's what I think. No good dog is a bad colour, and a good dog is one which is healthy, has a good temperament (which I think can often be linked to health) and corresponds to the breed standard.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

danakay91 said:


> What I would like to know is in terms of studding a Frenchie what colour is most desirable? Do we opt for a recognised colour and if so which? or do we go for a fashion color? if so which?





danakay91 said:


> ut of the two pups which one would be more desirable and at a guess what price would you pay for a pup like this?





danakay91 said:


> Out of the recognised colours which one do you think would be preferably please?





danakay91 said:


> I do think fawns are beautiful too!





danakay91 said:


> (if I pick the right colour)


I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused.

Are you choosing a puppy, or a dress?


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

We have a few frenchies come to our ringcraft they are all brindle or fawn and all do well at the shows.

Colour would be the last thing I would be looking for in a future stud dog, confirmation and temperament would be first in line and also bred from health tested parents.

Also a pup that looks to have show/stud potential at 8 weeks will not necessarily fullfill that potential as an adult. Even as the owner of the stud and not the bitch you are just as responsible for the resulting puppies. If a puppy was to be returned to the breeder but the bitch owner was not in a situation were they could take him/her back would you be able to offer assistance? Many stud owners think it is just a case of sticking 2 dogs together and thats the end of it for them but it isn't the pups as just as much your responsibility


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

The Crufts 2015 Frenchie BoB:










2014:










2013:










2009:










The BoB at the National Dog Show 2015 was brindle. As was the BoB at SKC 2015. And the BoB at Bath 2015. The BoB at Bath also won BoB at Three Counties. Windsor BoB? Brindle. Leeds? Brindle. Bournemouth? Brindle. WKC? Brindle again.



> But at the same time I see people literally trying to give away brindle pups down my area.


Presumably these aren't top show breeders trying to give away their brindle pups? I'd base your opinions on colour and their worth in the show ring on actual results, not whether random BYBs can shift their brindle puppies or not.



> In terms of whelping difficulties I do not intend at any point to purchase a bitch and will only use our dog as stud to people who have knowledge and experience themselves with a bitch who is also true to type and health tested.


Whelping difficulties are not just down to the bitch, dogs can also be from self whelping lines (or not) and their female offspring can be more (or less) likely to be able to give birth naturally. It's a major issue in the breed and not something you can just forget about because you're not interested in owning a bitch or breeding litters yourself.


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

LinznMilly said:


> I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused.
> 
> Are you choosing a puppy, or a dress?


Why the confusion ? This is a petforum after all


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

danakay91 said:


> Why the confusion ? This is a petforum after all


I think the concern is that you are choosing for colour. You appear to be looking at this purely from the commercial benefits of choosing a colour that you will get the most use out of as a stud dog.



danakay91 said:


> I do know the recognised breed colours hence why I stated (if I pick the right colour) on my original post. I have only viewed pups where both parents have been health tested and clear and where they come from good breeding lines and even then none were suitable. The experience I have of the breed is purely through grooming frenchies and of course researching about the breed but I didnt go as far into genetics as I should have prior to writing this post (which i have now done). *As for desireable colours. I know that the quality of a pup far outweighs coat colour. But at the same time I see people literally trying to give away brindle pups down my area. People just are not as interested in them as they are pieds, fawn and yes the fashion colours. Is it wrong of me to think that when I choose to stud my dog that potential breeders will look at what pups he is likely to produce and that they will want to have a desirable looking stud to show potential buyers of pups*?


This sounds like a business proposition, without the necessary knowledge to breed for the benefit of the breed.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

I'd suggest you go 2 a few shows if you are able too . chat to breeders and make your own mind up as to what colour you prefer.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

danakay91 said:


> I do know the recognised breed colours hence why I stated (if I pick the right colour) on my original post. I have only viewed pups where both parents have been health tested and clear and where they come from good breeding lines and even then none were suitable. The experience I have of the breed is purely through grooming frenchies and of course researching about the breed but I didnt go as far into genetics as I should have prior to writing this post (which i have now done). As for desireable colours. I know that the quality of a pup far outweighs coat colour. But at the same time I see people literally trying to give away brindle pups down my area. People just are not as interested in them as they are pieds, fawn and yes the fashion colours. Is it wrong of me to think that when I choose to stud my dog that potential breeders will look at what pups he is likely to produce and that they will want to have a desirable looking stud to show potential buyers of pups?


So all you really are interested in is how much money you can make?

I will be offering no advice to the likes of yourself, and given your posts and reasons for wanting a dog I would hope ethical breeders would shut the door in your face. I certainly would.....

You will never be an ethical breeder so will never attract requests from ethical breeders for your dogs services, dogs aren't cash cows!!!!!!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

I don't breed. I don't show. But if I DID breed, there is no way I would choose a stud dog which hadn't got a good self-whelping pedigree and had proven himself in the show ring. Colour? - Any as long as it fits standard - least of my worries.

Under no circumstances would I choose a dog for my bitch because it was the "right" colour, without every other box being ticked first.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Honestly, if you believe that conscientious Breeders will use your dog solely because of his colour, you're a mile off.

Conformation, type and temperament is what I used to look for and a dog who would complement my bitch.

This is exactly how Breeds deteriorate. Breeding for 'fashionable' or unusual colours, whilst glaring faults are overlooked.

No breeder worth their salt would do that.

All you seem concerned with is getting an unusual colour, believing that will make your dog desirable and rack up lots of money for you.

I'll say this too. With your attitude, you will make enemies amongst those who really care about the Breed.


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Hi Danakay. See this thread running, and had a bit of a nose around. I did find this http://www.puppyloveneverfails.com/useful_info/color_genetics.html
The author seems to be knowledgeable on what you are asking, and invites you to ask questions directly. Might be worth a look - especially as it is about Frenchies. 
This bit is just an opinion, but I would go for the mainstream, KC coloured, dog. Fashionable colours may command higher prices now but fashion is fickle, and may well change. The mainstream colours are a stable market, and will be there for the long-haul, whereas the market for "fashion" colours tends to overload, and prices fall away.
When you are looking at the price then this is not a time to skimp - you should buy the best dog that you can afford. You should also look to the showing, if you manage to get a really good dog, as it is the way to get your dog into the view of those that would be potential customers. Time and effort (and money) should help you get to where you want to. At least, if you fail, it will not be through the lack of effort.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

miljar said:


> Hi Danakay. See this thread running, and had a bit of a nose around. I did find this http://www.puppyloveneverfails.com/useful_info/color_genetics.html
> The author seems to be knowledgeable on what you are asking, and invites you to ask questions directly. Might be worth a look - especially as it is about Frenchies.
> This bit is just an opinion, but I would go for the mainstream, KC coloured, dog. Fashionable colours may command higher prices now but fashion is fickle, and may well change. The mainstream colours are a stable market, and will be there for the long-haul, whereas the market for "fashion" colours tends to overload, and prices fall away.
> When you are looking at the price then this is not a time to skimp - you should buy the best dog that you can afford. You should also look to the showing, if you manage to get a really good dog, as it is the way to get your dog into the view of those that would be potential customers. Time and effort (and money) should help you get to where you want to. At least, if you fail, it will not be through the lack of effort.


Don't encourage her.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

miljar said:


> Hi Danakay. See this thread running, and had a bit of a nose around. I did find this http://www.puppyloveneverfails.com/useful_info/color_genetics.html
> The author seems to be knowledgeable on what you are asking, and invites you to ask questions directly. Might be worth a look - especially as it is about Frenchies.
> This bit is just an opinion, but I would go for the mainstream, KC coloured, dog. Fashionable colours may command higher prices now but fashion is fickle, and may well change. The mainstream colours are a stable market, and will be there for the long-haul, whereas the market for "fashion" colours tends to overload, and prices fall away.
> When you are looking at the price then this is not a time to skimp - you should buy the best dog that you can afford. You should also look to the showing, if you manage to get a really good dog, as it is the way to get your dog into the view of those that would be potential customers. Time and effort (and money) should help you get to where you want to. At least, if you fail, it will not be through the lack of effort.


Well given the OP seems to use her username often easy to find real name, so it will be circulated you might consider it okay for some to look for dog's as the best means to make them money, I don't, neither do ethical breeders!


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Potential customers.... stable market....

Dogs aren't effing shop stock!!!!!
It is DISGUSTING that people see them as such.
Go back to your puppy farm and count your dirty pennies.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

miljar said:


> Hi Danakay. See this thread running, and had a bit of a nose around. I did find this http://www.puppyloveneverfails.com/useful_info/color_genetics.html
> The author seems to be knowledgeable on what you are asking, and invites you to ask questions directly. Might be worth a look - especially as it is about Frenchies.
> This bit is just an opinion, but I would go for the mainstream, KC coloured, dog. Fashionable colours may command higher prices now but fashion is fickle, and may well change. The mainstream colours are a stable market, and will be there for the long-haul, whereas the market for "fashion" colours tends to overload, and prices fall away.
> When you are looking at the price then this is not a time to skimp - you should buy the best dog that you can afford. You should also look to the showing, if you manage to get a really good dog, as it is the way to get your dog into the view of those that would be potential customers. Time and effort (and money) should help you get to where you want to. At least, if you fail, it will not be through the lack of effort.


Potential customers?

Oh my word, can't you see what is wrong what the OP is planning?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

miljar said:


> Hi Danakay. See this thread running, and had a bit of a nose around. I did find this http://www.puppyloveneverfails.com/useful_info/color_genetics.html
> The author seems to be knowledgeable on what you are asking, and invites you to ask questions directly. Might be worth a look - especially as it is about Frenchies.
> This bit is just an opinion, but I would go for the mainstream, KC coloured, dog. Fashionable colours may command higher prices now but fashion is fickle, and may well change. The mainstream colours are a stable market, and will be there for the long-haul, whereas the market for "fashion" colours tends to overload, and prices fall away.
> When you are looking at the price then this is not a time to skimp - you should buy the best dog that you can afford. You should also look to the showing, if you manage to get a really good dog, as it is the way to get your dog into the view of those that would be potential customers. Time and effort (and money) should help you get to where you want to. *At least, if you fail, it will not be through the lack of effort*.


Dogs are not fashion items. I'm interested to know exactly what you mean by the bolded bit. I note you talk a lot about money and colour but not at all about health testing or the huge responsibility that bringing these pups into the world involves. Very sad in this day and age to see them talked about like commodities. Do you or the OP know if there is a rescue problem with this breed given its recent surge in popularity and money grabbers jumping on the (unethical) band wagon


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)




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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Excuse me, but what is the problem? A question was asked, and I did my best to answer it.
I directed the OP to an informative site (or, at least, I think so), advised them to stay within KC guidelines, to buy the best dog they can afford and to go showing.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

BlueJay said:


> Potential customers.... stable market....
> 
> Dogs aren't effing shop stock!!!!!
> It is DISGUSTING that people see them as such.
> Go back to your puppy farm and count your dirty pennies.





Sweety said:


> Potential customers?
> 
> Oh my word, can't you see what is wrong what the OP is planning?


It doesn't surprise me at all that miljar has these views, he is a puppy farmer after all.

I'm 100% with Meezey, hopefully all ethical breeders will avoid the OP like a dose of the clap


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

miljar said:


> This bit is just an opinion, but I would go for the mainstream, KC coloured, dog. Fashionable colours may command higher prices now but fashion is fickle, and may well change. The mainstream colours are a stable market, and will be there for the long-haul, whereas the market for "fashion" colours tends to overload, and prices fall away.
> When you are looking at the price then this is not a time to skimp - you should buy the best dog that you can afford. You should also look to the showing, if you manage to get a really good dog, as it is the way to get your dog into the view of those that would be potential customers.





miljar said:


> Excuse me, but what is the problem? A question was asked, and I did my best to answer it.
> I directed the OP to an informative site (or, at least, I think so), advised them to stay within KC guidelines, to buy the best dog they can afford and to go showing.


Yeah course sure you did! Problem is people like you and the OP thinking of the best way to make money out of dogs with no concern for anything else! Markets prices falling away potential customers they are dogs not used cars! So yeah you are excused don't let the door hit you on the way out!!


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

10 minutes now.
Isn't anyone going to tell me which bit was so wrong?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

miljar said:


> 10 minutes now.
> Isn't anyone going to tell me which bit was so wrong?


Just have!!!!!


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

No, you didn't. You just tried to tell me what I am thinking. What was wrong with the post?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

miljar said:


> No, you didn't. You just tried to tell me what I am thinking. What was wrong with the post?


If you can't see it, then you are part of the problem.


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Still no answer. Cat got your tongue?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

miljar said:


> No, you didn't. You just tried to tell me what I am thinking. What was wrong with the post?


Fashionable colours.
Command higher prices.
Fashion is fickle.
Stable Market.
Overload, prices fall away.
Potential customers.

You are talking about someone creating a life (well several actually) not a bag of sugar or the latest designer handbag.

You also failed to mention

Health testing.
Temperament testing.
Experience.
Responsibility.

Or ask what the OP would be bringing to the breed
or whether there is a problem with rescues in this particular breed.

Or in the words of Jessie J

Seems like everybody's got a price
I wonder how they sleep at night
When the sale comes first
And the truth comes second

Read more: Jessie J - Price Tag Lyrics | MetroLyrics


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

miljar said:


> Still no answer. Cat got your tongue?


You've been told in numerous post?You are the problem as are your comments about markets fashion losing price potential customers your words no one else!

So what is your experience of French Bulldogs? Showing? Breeding? Health Testing? Breed standards temperament tests? What health issues are you aware of in the breed?

Costing more doesn't mean you get a better dog, normally means the breeder is breeding purely with money in mind in most cases!Colour has frig all to do with anything, its the last consideration!


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Thank you.
I think that the question asked determines what is in the answer.
"Best possible" would tend to suggest the health testing done, especially as the OP had already said that they were looking at health tested dogs.


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

I wonder if the OP is still looking?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

miljar said:


> Thank you.
> I think that the question asked determines what is in the answer.
> "Best possible" would tend to suggest the health testing done, especially as the OP had already said that they were looking at health tested dogs.


No it doesn't! You determine the answer? Your ethics knowledge and experience! Given your response it shows where yours lie!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

miljar said:


> Thank you.
> I think that the question asked determines what is in the answer.
> "Best possible" would tend to suggest the health testing done, especially as the OP had already said that they were looking at health tested dogs.


'Best possible' is subjective- could just as easily mean best possible money making enterprise.....


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Meezey said:


> No it doesn't! You determine the answer? Your ethics knowledge and experience! Given your response it shows where yours lie!


Sorry, but this doesn't make sense. A question is a question, and so an answer is an answer. You may not like it, but it is still an answer.



simplysardonic said:


> 'Best possible' is subjective- could just as easily mean best possible money making enterprise.....


 Subjective eh? Well, I will give you that - although I did mean "best possible" in regard to the dog itself. The "best possible" dog might also be the best "money-maker" though.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2015)

Depressing thread....


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)




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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

miljar said:


> I wonder if the OP is still looking?


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

miljar said:


> 10 minutes now.
> Isn't anyone going to tell me which bit was so wrong?


I work all night, I work all day, to pay the bills I have to pay
Ain't it sad
And still there never seems to be a single penny left for me
That's too bad
In my dreams I have a plan
If I got me a Blue French Bulldog
I wouldn't have to work at all, I'd fool around and have a ball...

Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man's world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man's world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It's a rich man's world.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

miljar said:


> Sorry, but this doesn't make sense. A question is a question, and so an answer is an answer. You may not like it, but it is still an answer.


Makes perfect sense to me, you CHOSE to involve yourself in a thread you CHOSE to give advice about where OP could find potential customers you gave OP advise about dogs losing price and no longer being fashionable! Now if you can not see the problem with that again it says a lot about your own morals and ethics. Now you can try and act innocent you can try and make out like you were being "helpful" by answering the question, either way fact remains you chose to lower a dog to a business transaction!

So I asked you a few questions ( seems you don't just answer questions you are quite capable of avoiding them)!

"So what is your experience of French Bulldogs? Showing? Breeding? Health Testing? Breed standards, temperament tests? What health issues are you aware of in the breed?"


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

miljar said:


> The "best possible" dog might also be the best "money-maker" though.


if you think of dogs as pound notes on legs, then yeah.... How many of your dogs so far have lived into double figures? What did they die of? You've not been breeding that long so you can't answer that for the crossbreeds, can you?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Gotta love it when someone demands answers and then avoids questions!!!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

miljar said:


> Still no answer. Cat got your tongue?


Well, the cat hasn't got my tongue dear.

The OP is looking for a French Bulldog of a particular colour. Not for a pet, no, no, but a dog he can use at stud.

I wonder why he has made this plan - could it be for money? 

He knows nothing about the breed, he isn't passionate about Frenchies and wants to show and help improve the breed, he wants a dog he can charge a stud fee for.

Why would you encourage him?

If you can't see what is wrong, immoral and mercenary about that, you're beyond help too.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Well, the cat hasn't got my tongue dear.
> 
> The OP is looking for a French Bulldog of a particular colour. Not for a pet, no, no, but a dog he can use at stud.
> 
> ...


No, not a *particular* colour, the OP wants to to know would be the most *desirable *colour to have a stud dog in - so they can get plenty of use as a stud dog.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

I've seen some pretty scrawny-looking frenchies about these days. What used to be a chunky, stocky breed seems to be becoming "racier" for want of a better term. Looking at the post by singingwhippet with the BoB dog on it, this isn't due to a change in breed spec - it may just be thoughtless breeding. It probably makes whelping easier for the bitch, though.


I think the OP just wants to coin it. Don't know why they even want to get a good dog - I would have thought any "desirable" colour would do, the cheaper the better so that when the fashion for that colour changes they can get rid and start again with another.

Looking on P4H these dogs can fetch £2,500 easily - some much more. No the wonder the Greedmeisters jump onto the bandwagon.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

lostbear said:


> Looking on P4H these dogs can fetch £2,500 easily - some much more. No the wonder the Greedmeisters jump onto the bandwagon.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

lostbear said:


> Looking on P4H these dogs can fetch £2,500 easily - some much more. No the wonder the Greedmeisters jump onto the bandwagon.


Looking at the price these dogs can fetch, I'd say its obvious that the OP has chosen this breed and wants the most popular colour for only one reason. Money, money, money and more money.
Dogs are not money making machines, and should not be used as such.Shame on you danakay91.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2015)

I understand if you're a responsible breeder who has passion for a breed and takes necessary precautions such as ensuring the dog is healthy by meeting all of the health check criteria and genetic screenings. Someone who has owned frenchies and knows the breed well, as well as knows their temperament as a whole and what to look for in a good frenchie temperament that has something to give for breeding other than color. Someone who has worked with many frenchies and owned many frenchies. Maybe bred a good litter and wanted to keep a particular color they liked, after health checks of course, for a coming litter in a year or twos times (not sure when it's proper to breed a frenchie as far as age goes)

The fact that he's asking a forum about them tells me the op clearly has no or little experience with the breed and has not done and may not do most or any of the above, and it's obvious by his lack of basic knowledge on frenchie color and the fixation of choosing a desirable color. For what? Not money of course never! Why ever would someone think that?

That means trouble for the litter that could have all sorts of health issues and problems due to lack of necessary care before breeding such as screenings, and after care with initial shots, check ups, flea and worm treatments, puppy well vet visits, not to mention a whole handful of puppies being in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to handle or raise the breed in the first place. Breeding dogs is expensive, and people who don't understand that and are only looking to make some money on some desirable frenchie colors - I just pray for those puppies because it's unlikely they'll get proper vet care or be placed in responsible homes.

I love Australian shepherds they are my favorite breed. However I have limited experience and would never in a million years consider breeding Cosmo, my first Aussie, just because he's dashing in appearance or might carry a red tri gene that I personally love. That would be extremely irresponsible of me and I would never bring puppies into the world that I'm not prepared to give the best go at life, as well as owning several to ensure I had a well rounded opinion on the breed and joining seminars and classes and speaking with reputable breeders and doing my research and having the money and space and time and energy and patience and skill and experience. Never would I just buy Cosmo and breed him because I think he's pretty and I can make a nice buck on them if others agree. Breeding dogs is a hefty responsibility and should only be done by those well versed in the breed.


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

Morning all.
Just had a look at this thread again. Gotta go, but thought that I would come back on these couple of points...................


Meezey said:


> Makes perfect sense to me, you CHOSE to involve yourself in a thread you CHOSE to give advice about where OP could find potential customers you gave OP advise about dogs losing price and no longer being fashionable! Now if you can not see the problem with that again it says a lot about your own morals and ethics. Now you can try and act innocent you can try and make out like you were being "helpful" by answering the question, either way fact remains you chose to lower a dog to a business transaction!
> 
> So I asked you a few questions ( seems you don't just answer questions you are quite capable of avoiding them)!
> 
> "So what is your experience of French Bulldogs? Showing? Breeding? Health Testing? Breed standards, temperament tests? What health issues are you aware of in the breed?"


Yes, I chose to answer a question. So, shoot me - I thought that is what you did on a forum.
With regards to Frenchies then I do not claim any great knowledge - that is why I directed the OP towards someone who seems to be more knowledgeable than myself. I did put my opinion forward with regards to the more general aspects of the question, but these could not be considered as being specific to just Frenchies.



Sweety said:


> Well, the cat hasn't got my tongue dear.
> 
> The OP is looking for a French Bulldog of a particular colour. Not for a pet, no, no, but a dog he can use at stud.
> 
> ...


I do not know the OP, and do not know what he/she has in mind. I do not seem to have the psychic abilities that you seem to claim. Even if I did, I don't wish to act as some sort of self appointed "thought police". That they came onto this forum, seeking advice, is good enough for me. Look an it as a random act of kindness.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2015)

miljar said:


> Morning all.
> Just had a look at this thread again. Gotta go, but thought that I would come back on these couple of points...................
> 
> Yes, I chose to answer a question. So, shoot me - I thought that is what you did on a forum.
> ...


:/ it's not kind for the pups that are going to be put into unfortunate circumstances if people encourage a BYB who is looking for some money to make off of a dog without any prior knowledge to the breed or breeding in general or the work that needs to go into it. It's not kind at all for these pups that may end up with a long list of health problems sitting behind cage bars awaiting a family that can afford the problems created by an irresponsible breeder. It's not very responsible to nurture the idea that breeding a dog for color alone so money can be made with zero experience is an alright thing to do.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

miljar said:


> Morning all.
> 
> I do not know the OP, and do not know what he/she has in mind. I do not seem to have the psychic abilities that you seem to claim. Even if I did, I don't wish to act as some sort of self appointed "thought police". That they came onto this forum, seeking advice, is good enough for me.* Look an it as a random act of kindness*.


Very charitable. I can hear the cash tills ringing in my ears.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

miljar said:


> Morning all.
> Just had a look at this thread again. Gotta go, but thought that I would come back on these couple of points...................
> 
> Yes, I chose to answer a question. So, shoot me - I thought that is what you did on a forum.
> ...


Oh well as long as assisting someone find a dog to use as the best cash cow was done with kindness then that's all that matters hey...


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

'Thought police'- miljar's favourite go-to phrase when someone doesn't agree with him, & a dig that we are apparently telling people what to do & nothing at all to do with the fact that it's actually about animal welfare where our concern lies.

I take it you've read 1984 & understand the basic premise of thought police & thought crime?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

miljar said:


> Morning all.
> Just had a look at this thread again. Gotta go, but thought that I would come back on these couple of points...................
> 
> Yes, I chose to answer a question. So, shoot me - I thought that is what you did on a forum.
> ...


Just to add the OP spelt out why they wanted a certain colour no thought guessing or psychic ability required on anyone's part, they said why they wanted a certain colour! Colour can have related healthy issues in Frenchies that other breeds don't have, colour and aspects of colour can have an impact on placing in show rings, not the colour itself but related standards to that colour unique to Frenchies....

You answered it yep no issue with that but back to the points you demanded answers to, your answers show how low down the bar your ethics and morals are, there no thought police need both and the OP spelt it out loud and clear!


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

miljar said:


> Hi Danakay. See this thread running, and had a bit of a nose around. I did find this http://www.puppyloveneverfails.com/useful_info/color_genetics.html
> The author seems to be knowledgeable on what you are asking, and invites you to ask questions directly. Might be worth a look - especially as it is about Frenchies.
> This bit is just an opinion, but I would go for the mainstream, KC coloured, dog. Fashionable colours may command higher prices now but fashion is fickle, and may well change. The mainstream colours are a stable market, and will be there for the long-haul, whereas the market for "fashion" colours tends to overload, and prices fall away.
> When you are looking at the price then this is not a time to skimp - you should buy the best dog that you can afford. You should also look to the showing, if you manage to get a really good dog, as it is the way to get your dog into the view of those that would be potential customers. Time and effort (and money) should help you get to where you want to. At least, if you fail, it will not be through the lack of effort.


Thank you!


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Thank you for all your judgemental comments and for those who actually took the time to answer with the info I was asking for. To those who assume that I want this dog purely to make money you are extremely wrong. We had already decided that we would like a french bulldog to join our family prior to any talk of breeding ect. We have bought a little fawn boy who is fully health tested, self whelped, fantastic bloodlines and dam, sire and grandmother all lived in the home with the family. We have our first ringcraft class next tuesday and we are going to be working towards a local show in december. He is true to type and has not been dna tested. If he proves himself in the ring them we will look into studding him and having dna test. Until then we are enjoying our new addition and working on basic commands. Thanks all for the judgements! I will keep any questions from here on out to his breeder or people from the club


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## SingingWhippet (Feb 25, 2015)

How incredibly fortuitous for you that in such a short space of time you've managed to find such an excellent breeder with puppies on the ground and ready to go.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

This puppy can't be fully health tested. His Parents may be, but he isn't.

The Breeder owns both dog and bitch? Mmmmmm .............

How old is he?


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

It was indeed  deposit had already been paid on him but purchase fell through . He is 14 weeks old. Had to travel quite a distance but he was worth every mile!


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Yes sorry for confusion both parents have received silver level certificate in health scheme


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

He has gery bulls, hashyway, shark justeph and del porton de s r in lines. I've also managed to trace his pedigree quite far back too


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

danakay91 said:


> Thank you!


No worries.

Wishing you the best of luck, and hope you have fun along the way.
Go Frenchies!!!!!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Oh lovely what's the breeders affix? Well given you get pedigrees tracing them back tends not to be too hard.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Oddly don't know any of those lines bar 1 and looking at Gery Bulls Facebook page I wouldn't consider them good.. Maybe that's why he was still available at 14 weeks..


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Meezey said:


> Oddly don't know any of those lines bar 1 and looking at Gery Bulls Facebook page I wouldn't consider them good.. Maybe that's why he was still available at 14 weeks..


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Meezey his lines are mostly hungarian and spanish.


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## danakay91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Maybe you will recognise de la parure?


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

danakay91 said:


> He has gery bulls, *hashyway*, shark justeph and del porton de s r in lines. I've also managed to trace his pedigree quite far back too


Hashyway seem to breed a lot of unrecognised colours.

Is there any Kentredecim in the pedigree?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

danakay91 said:


> Meezey his lines are mostly hungarian and spanish.


Both Gery and Hashyway breed unrecognised colours. A lot of litters sire by these affixes just use aa generic KC name, with unrecognised colours?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

This is not true to type lines in any shape or form ...


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

danakay91 said:


> Meezey his lines are mostly hungarian and spanish.


Is this the litter?







sired by a Blue Brindle?


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

danakay91 said:


> Thank you for all your judgemental comments and for those who actually took the time to answer with the info I was asking for. To those who assume that I want this dog purely to make money you are extremely wrong. We had already decided that we would like a french bulldog to join our family prior to any talk of breeding ect. We have bought a little fawn boy who is fully health tested, self whelped, fantastic bloodlines and dam, sire and grandmother all lived in the home with the family. *We have our first ringcraft class next tuesday and we are going to be working towards a local show in december. He is true to type and has not been dna tested.* If he proves himself in the ring them we will look into studding him and having dna test. Until then we are enjoying our new addition and working on basic commands. Thanks all for the judgements! I will keep any questions from here on out to his breeder or people from the club


You can tell he is true to type when he is only 14 week? Wow, I am impressed.

Just for the record, it's not referred to as 'studding' - just thought I'd give you that one piece of advice so that you don't embarrass yourself by referring to it as studding with people from the 'club;'!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> Just for the record, it's not referred to as 'studding' - just thought I'd give you that one piece of advice so that you don't embarrass yourself by referring to it as studding with people from the 'club;'!


Somehow I don't think there will be any from the "club"... they won't be wanting to use a blue carrier from non-health tested parents.


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