# What coloured kittens??



## Amber092 (Sep 10, 2013)

I was looking after my daughters pure white long haired, blue eyed Ragdoll x Norwegian Forest Cat whilst she was on holiday, she didn't know (or tell me) that she was calling and in season. So as we can guess this has resulted in my Ragdoll (Flame point) stud cat getting lucky.

Accidents do happen and she's wondering what colour kittens there could be?
She's planning on keeping two kittens herself and other members of the family are very interested in having one - as both cats are much loved pets, gorgeous temperaments and are stunning to look at. 

Many thanks.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I don't know but I'll be interested to see pictures. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't queens in heat/calling nearly all the time from a fairly young age? If so I wouldn't have risked a queen getting mixed with a tom anyway even if she did seem young?


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## Amber092 (Sep 10, 2013)

She is an adult, my boy wasn't being kept with her - she wasn't showing any signs she was calling but it seems she was just being very quiet. Unfortunately these things happen sometimes ..


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Well they don't happen, you said you have a 'stud' and you didn't notice her crying and him mating her  If he wasn't being kept with her how is she pregnant by him? 
Why wasn't she neutered? Why isn't your boy neutered 

Is she hcm tested and Glycogen Storage Disease (GSD IV) tested??? is your boy hcm tested?

If neither are the coat colour is the least of your concern, however 'stunning they are to look at' 

I she IS a GENUINE ragdoll cross NFC then she will carry the colourpoint gene, so some will be colourpoint, white can hold a lot of things, then you will get torties with him being a red.

She can also be neutered still now, please remember you need to keep them until 12-13weeks of age, vac them and neuter them before they leave if possible, kittens can be neutered from 10 weeks in the uk now, so really no reason why neither aren't neutered.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Am rather surprised, since you have a stud boy, that you haven't come across silent callers before - presumably you know your daughter's cat is entire. And also that you need help with colour genetics.

I am also baffled as to why your daughter has an adult entire female who's a cross-breed. Yes, 'oops' litters occur, but the offspring should all be neutered PDQ.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Accidents do happen but my spidey senses are telling me _this_ wasn't one.

Tbh I would expect better from someone who has a stud cat. At the minimum please have your daughters cat neutered as soon as possible after the birth. There are millions of cats which are 'much loved pets, gorgeous temperaments and are stunning to look at' but those aren't good enough reasons to breed from them.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Oh dear, oh dear. A breeder who doesn't know her colour genetics and has a stud boy who can impregnate a female even though she's not being kept with him? Sorry, but I smell a rather large rat.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

I have to agree with the others here, Carlys comment sums up exactly what I was thinking, are you sure it was an accident or are you just helping your daughter to produce some more cross breed kittens? 

Is your stud boy on the active register? 

I would have thought if you have a stud cat you would see all the signs of a cat on call even if it is a silent caller. 

As for the kittens I am sure they will be beautiful whatever the colour but your daughter should really be thinking more towards getting her cross breed spayed before any more 'accidents' happen, as family may not be able to give a home to the next litter.

Did you know her cat was entire or had she been letting you think all along that her girl was spayed knowing full well you had a stud and she would be very likely to get pregnant by him if she left her with you?


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Amber092 said:


> She is an adult, my boy wasn't being kept with her - she wasn't showing any signs she was calling but it seems she was just being very quiet. Unfortunately these things happen sometimes ..


wireless mating?  they must have got together if she's now pregnant!


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> you said you have a 'stud'....
> [snip]
> Why isn't your boy neutered


I'm not a breeder, but if she said she has a stud, then wouldn't that explain why he isn't neutered? Is it possible she's a breeder? Perhaps a novice breeder? To me, the term "stud" implies planning to use for a breeding program. "Unneutered male" means we haven't gotten around to getting him done.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Wiz201 said:


> wireless mating?  they must have got together if she's now pregnant!


Didn't she say she was watching her daughter's cat while her daughter was on holiday? Therefore they weren't kept together--they were visiting.

I am in no way trying to argue that this is an actual accident (since I really don't believe in true accidents---they are usually events resulting from human inattention), so nobody jump on me for that. I am wholeheartedly on the side of those who preach responsible breeding. However, it often seems in these sorts of threads that people who have very good points to make and important things to say tend to jump on little bits such as the above and then it either looks as though they're trying to be deliberately obtuse for some unknown effect or just snarky for the wrong reasons. Or maybe in the zeal to get the important point across, the original message just isn't read and absorbed? At any rate, do comments like the above benefit anyone? They aren't instructive. They aren't really admonishing. They kind of seem passive-aggressive and I find they take away from the actual message at hand--which I believe is a very important one to get across. Perhaps the OP was just really clueless in bringing her intact male in the house with an intact female. Or perhaps she secretly/subconsciously/even consciously wanted some kittens from them. But the real message is that it's never a good idea to allow matured, intact cats of the opposite sex to intermingle unless you want to have some kittens. And in that case, there are steps in advance that really should be taken, like health testing.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

I'm surprised personally that anyone would introduce two adult cats (spayed or entire) if one was only going to be there a couple of weeks. Cats tend to be pretty unforgiving of strangers - I would have kept the two apart to prevent scrapping, never mind [email protected]!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

sharonbee said:


> I would have thought if you have a stud cat you would see all the signs of a cat on call even if it is a silent caller.


I have a silent caller who shows no signs at all, if the boy is around she'll assume the position, soon as he's out the room she stands up like everything is normal.

She's yet to have mated with the boy being kept away from her though 

I've also had a girl who was a silent mater.



dagny0823 said:


> To me, the term "stud" implies planning to use for a breeding program. "Unneutered male" means we haven't gotten around to getting him done.


People misuse terms all the time, I've often seem Tom used to describe a neutered male, or Queen for a spayed female.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

dagny0823 said:


> Didn't she say she was watching her daughter's cat while her daughter was on holiday? Therefore they weren't kept together--they were visiting.


I disagree with several points in your post, I'm just trying to understand the situation here - did the cat come to visit and get mixed with the male? Then I don't understand why the OP is surprised she is now pregnant? It won't take a female in heat long to mate if she's ready.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

besides the ragdoll side of things, you would also have to take into consideration what genetics are on the wegie side.
now I know why I don't come onto this forum anymore, the poor woman only asked a simple question


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Maybe she did only ask a simple question - but its not rocket science is it? You have an entire male, and you take an entire female into your home? What outcome is expected?

Now you either make sure they never meet, whether the female is in call or not, or you are hoping for the 'accident' that happened.

If this is a registed male on the active register, wouldn't you think he would have his own stud quarters? Apart from anything else, who would want to actually have a spraying stud living in the household home?

And if he isn't a stud registered on the active register, you question why an entire female was brought into his environment, what other reason is there apart from wanting him to mate with an entire female added to his environment?

Yes accidents do happen, but not usually between an active registered stud cat, and a cross breed brought into his home environment.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Apart from anything else, who would want to actually have a spraying stud living in the household home?


Not all entire boys spray though  The OP's might not, mine doesn't.

I think we've lost the OP though so likely won't get any answers as to why this happened.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

then why does most of the people on here have to treat other people like they are idiots. she is asking advice so why cant you 'advise' her, don't have to be so abrupt


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

jenny armour said:


> then why does most of the people on here have to treat other people like they are idiots. she is asking advice so why cant you 'advise' her, don't have to be so abrupt


How do I say this without sounding ummmm horrible .... Because they are , ok this may come down to common sense and a lot of ppl don't have it ...

If the OP is a stud owner she should. know the outcome and the colours ... I think he is just a entire Tom and the word stud has been used incorrectly.. Well am hoping it has .... Ppl get very upset when things like this happen and am affaid to say I totally agree and understand why they do ...


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

So we should advise her on what colours of fancy moggies she's likely to get from a mating which never should have happened, just so that she can start advertising them sooner, build a waiting list, and send them off to new homes even earlier? Don't think so.

And is it just me who sees the coincidental irony in this girl just happening to be a raggy cross, and the "stud" just happening to be a raggie?

3/4 stunning and very rare ragdoll babies for sale, anyone? First to see them will buy!

Sorry, but regardless of how abrupt or otherwise I come across to others, I will not be a party to helping with backyard breeding as I see it, not in any way. The original poster isn't around to advise any more, so it's a moot point in any case.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

And yet, in so many threads, people speak of providing some proper advice for random web searches. Perhaps the best advice on this thread wouldn't be to aid BYBing, but to just give some advice about not being a dumb*** and letting 2 entire cats together, blah blah, and not in a passive-aggressive, snippy fashion. Just a thought. But I suppose people's ideas about the purpose of the forum changes by what thread and what day it is. Sometimes it's educational, sometimes it's not at all.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

However, we can't answer the question anyway as we don't know what colour the white is covering. 

I have to admit to not answering the threads as haranguing the OP till they disappear is not really helpful. I don't like it. If you don't want to answer don't. If one person has mentioned the remissiveness of the Op in allowing it to happen, that really is enough.

I don't have the energy at the moment for most threads. I REALLY don't have the energy for threads that go no where.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Um only a little change of subject but one that is bugging me at the moment. If you cross breed two cats with different characteristics like a short tail and a long tail, do you get medium sized tails, or short tails and long tails? Or is every trait different? Colours are complex enough but with some of the more strucutural things like body shape etc, surely you'd be back to unpredictable outcomes in one generation?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Ah, every single breeder would love to have a finite answer to that question!

The honest answer is that the gene fairy is a sod. You normally can't predict what you're going to get. In the case of the tail example, if I was a breeder and had a long tailed cat which needed to be shorter, I wouldn't breed them to a cat who had a too short tail because then you could end up with tails too long, tails too short, and tails somewhere in the middle. If you breed a long tailed cat to a perfect tailed one, then you should get long tails, perfect tails, and tails somewhere in the middle, so by breeding to a perfect trait, you narrow down your options. Do this long enough and you eventually end up with a distinctive look.

As for crossing them when they have that distinctive look, it entirely depends on the cats and their background. Something which has been line bred for example, is more likely to pass on its traits to the offspring. So if that short tail has been stamped into the genes by line breeding, then you're much more likely to get short tailed offspring.

It's a bit of a minefield to be honest.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I think of it like a game of poker without the chance to change any cards once they're dealt. There are 52 cards in the pack, all manner of possible combinations and no guarantee of which five cards you'll get


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Purrrfectly put havoc .... I have a long tailed kitten ... Mum and dad have lovely length tails ... So you get what you get


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

And I have a gorgeous kitten in a current litter, perfect in every way except a short tail. I could cry.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> Not all entire boys spray though  The OP's might not, mine doesn't.
> 
> I think we've lost the OP though so likely won't get any answers as to why this happened.


I wish the one I have visiting at the moment would, so at least I would WANT to give him back to his owner! Now I'm like, how am I ever going to give him back, he is just so darling in every possible way 

As for Jonescat's question, obviously I am neither experienced nor educated enough to know, but I've been told that when it comes to minor "errors" - so for example, a tail that isn't too short per se, but just could be a bit longer - you often get something just right when breeding to another cat with an opposite "minor error". This is mostly a coincidence (because my only goal at the moment is to have a litter and they'd all be neutered anyway, so I'm not really trying to improve the type), but my girl is a bit on the large side for a female and the stud is a little bit too small for a boy, and also my girl has kind of large ears and he has ears just the right size so, I'm really interested in what the offspring are going to be like.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

I thought that must be the case. I love mine dearly but I can see their less perfect bits too, and I know some of what their breeders were trying to do with the pairings. Still I guess not knowing what you are going to get is what makes it fun for breeders!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

carly87 said:


> So we should advise her on what colours of fancy moggies she's likely to get from a mating which never should have happened, just so that she can start advertising them sooner, build a waiting list, and send them off to new homes even earlier? Don't think so.
> 
> And is it just me who sees the coincidental irony in this girl just happening to be a raggy cross, and the "stud" just happening to be a raggie?
> 
> ...


This! 

But I have seen people call their cats queens (even neutered ones) studs and toms for neutered and un neutered cats.

I did actually answer the question that was asked, I asked a few back mainly health tests but still shocked, hence most replies are going to be like 'really'! But I think most of these type of questions aren't even real, just bored people, and it always makes it worse when your own breed is evolved :crying:


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Twiggs said:


> Nothing wrong with calling a neutered male cat a tom! Even if the cat has had his testicles removed he is still genetically male i.e. with a x and y chromosome. Of course refering to a cat as a stud sugests that they are kept intact for breeding.


I don't really know why they get called 'toms' any idea? But I have only heard it said as in 'my cat got caught by the local tom cat' 'that tom cat is around again spraying' never really as a pet cat?


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