# Vet's opinion needed on Bob Martin's Spot on



## slicksps

I've found only negative reviews of this product but both my local pet shops swear by it so I'm stumped.

I appreciate it's highly toxic to cats, I don't have any personally and Shadow tends not to get too close to cats anyway.

I used it last month and it's time for the next application. He was fine with it, it was a textbook application but now I've read things about it killing dogs and removing years off their lives, I'm not so sure if I should go ahead.

One self-professed veterinary surgeon says it doesn't even kill fleas... which is the whole point of this exercise 

So I want to hear from the professionals if there are any out there, or even hearsay from other's vets would be good.

Frontline I hear recommended regularly but this is priced ridiculously high and apparently any potential stockists need to pay for training on it's use which to me sounds like a load of twaddle. The Spot-On is applied in exactly the same way and the instructions are clear enough, it's not rocket science.

But does it work or does it kill pets?


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## Guest

If they have to have training then it is probably due to health and safety 
Pet shops will recommend whatever they sell


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## PoisonGirl

I have used bob martin and in my experience, its [email protected] It does not get rid of the fleas properly.
You are far better just buying the stuff from the vets, you will probably end up needing it even if you do use bob martin anyway. I did.

x


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## tillysdream

Stay clear of Bob martins Spot on, it is ineffective as a flea treatment and it IS dangerous! If you care for your pet (which I am sure you do) buy Frontline or a similar product from a vets. [email protected] now sell Frontline, but it is locked away and you need to ask for a specially trained member of staff to sell it to you! 

Frontline isn't that expensive, your pets health is worth it! 

Bob Martins products could land you with vets bills in the hundreds, if an adverse reaction occurs (this is COMMON!!!) or even worse a dead dog! 

I worked in a Vets surgery for several years, and unfortunately have seen this happen. Stay clear of Bob Martin wormers as well, or any supermarket (cheap) wormer. They are false ecomomy!


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## Nonnie

slicksps said:


> Frontline I hear recommended regularly but this is priced ridiculously high and apparently any potential stockists need to pay for training on it's use which to me sounds like a load of twaddle. The Spot-On is applied in exactly the same way and the instructions are clear enough, it's not rocket science.


This is because of the chemicals/drugs involved. It used to be a prescription only item, and now can only be sold by suitably qualified people. Hence the training courses. This is to ensure correct information in regards to application and problems is given to the purchaser.

BM is a waste of money imo. Why it hasnt been pulled from the shelves is beyond me. Its highly dangerous, and ineffective.


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## shortbackandsides

It simply doesnt do what it claims to!,can be unsafe and has been proven,many times on here,to cause bad allergic reactions.it is not strong enough to kill worms/fleas.only licensed veterinary products are.
pet shops endorse all the products they sell,they cannot sell all the stronger ones only available in your vets,so will not recommend themafter all they want your money to stay with them


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## bird

Spend a little extra and buy the frontline. Peace of mind is beyond value. Pets at Home sell it cheaper than the vets, the three pack is £11 cheaper than my vets.


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## Sylvestris Kennels

PoisonGirl said:


> I have used bob martin and in my experience, its [email protected] It does not get rid of the fleas properly.
> You are far better just buying the stuff from the vets, you will probably end up needing it even if you do use bob martin anyway. I did.
> 
> x


I agree - its false economy to buy the cheaper items - the vet quality stuff is much better in my experience and worth the extra money.

Cheaper brands have bleached my dogs hair and need applying more often - that can't be good.


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## lady_r0gue

There are quite a few vet's opinions on this group xx

Bob Martin Flea Products - Kills your pets but not their fleas | Facebook


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## KenDoddsDadsDog

Not sure how much it is at [email protected], but Frontline Spot On 3-pack is £15 here


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## sid&kira

OMG i didnt know this, we've used bob martin spot on and wormer once on kira, and it was a load of crap, gunna use frontline from now on. we used bob martin on the cats as well (well not us, OHs sister) is it the same for them?


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## Nonnie

sid&kira said:


> OMG i didnt know this, we've used bob martin spot on and wormer once on kira, and it was a load of crap, gunna use frontline from now on. we used bob martin on the cats as well (well not us, OHs sister) is it the same for them?


Its more dangergous for cats. Many have died after having it applied.


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## tillysdream

Nonnie said:


> Its more dangergous for cats. Many have died after having it applied.


Agreed!


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## sillygilly

I never use BM but last year I spent masses on Front line including the house spray and my 3 still had fleas and picked up ticks, I then changed vets and when I rescued my lurcher she recommended Advocate which worms as well and I have had no sign of anything this year. I know its a bit expensive but it was well worth using and I will continue,


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## lady_r0gue

Bob Martin stinks, makes them look stupid for at least a day (with greasy necks) and it doesn't work. Even Frontline isn't quite doing it for us though right now (the vet reckons the fleas have become immune to it which is annoying)- I'm going to try Advantage (my vet recommends stronghold as well )- oh it does do my head in that all these products are made by evil companies that test on animals though - Pfizer, Merial, Bayer :mad5:


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## sequeena

I would definitely go for Frontline. Bob Martin is a cheap no frills alternative which does absolutely bugger all so I'm not sure how it's still in production!!


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## Nonnie

sillygilly said:


> I never use BM but last year I spent masses on Front line including the house spray and my 3 still had fleas and picked up ticks, I then changed vets and when I rescued my lurcher she recommended Advocate which worms as well and I have had no sign of anything this year. I know its a bit expensive but it was well worth using and I will continue,


Im the same. I started to find that Frontline was very good, and moved to Advocate.


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## sid&kira

Nonnie said:


> Its more dangergous for cats. Many have died after having it applied.


not the dog BM, the cat one, it was the granules... they seem fine, still meowing at me....


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## Nonnie

sid&kira said:


> not the dog BM, the cat one, it was the granules... they seem fine, still meowing at me....


Yes, the cat range has the highest rates of death and toxicity reactions.

It also doesnt work.


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## tillysdream

sid&kira said:


> not the dog BM, the cat one, it was the granules... they seem fine, still meowing at me....


Its called luck! Would you want to take the gamble next time? Knowing what you know now?

And I bet it hasn't taken care of the worms


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## sid&kira

tillysdream said:


> Its called luck! Would you want to take the gamble next time? Knowing what you know now?
> 
> And I bet it hasn't taken care of the worms


im not sure, they're quite 'outdoor' cats so i dont see them much... how do you tell? i just worm every 3 months as a rule, whether they seem to have them or not...
and no i wouldnt, not that it would be me buying it but i shall advise not to use BM any more


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## tillysdream

sid&kira said:


> im not sure, they're quite 'outdoor' cats so i dont see them much... how do you tell? i just worm every 3 months as a rule, whether they seem to have them or not...
> and no i wouldnt, not that it would be me buying it but i shall advise not to use BM any more


You can buy Drontal which is a great effective/ safe wormer from [email protected] Though its kept locked up, you need to ask especially for it (saves a trip to the vets). Its around the £5 mark per tablet!

Worms can be seen in cats stools, or around their anus! But not always... A worm burden (say roundworm) may not be obvious...tapeworms are usually more easy to spot!


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## sid&kira

cool thanks, last time they pooed in the house it looked normal, tho i was not impressed with having to clean it up 

bums seem clear aswell


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## tillysdream

sid&kira said:


> cool thanks, last time they pooed in the house it looked normal, tho i was not impressed with having to clean it up
> 
> bums seem clear aswell


No problem  Though there being no evidence, doesn't mean they are completely clear of worms! Vets have found many a worm when conducting surgery (for other reasons) on a kitty/dog whos owners use Bob Martin or other inferior brands 
But had no outward sign of worms! The only way to be sure, is to use Drontal or another vet approved wormer!


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## oldDoubletrouble

ALSO it is a falasy that you can always see worms in the animals faerces, this is NOT so! Guess this backs up what the above poster has said regarding worms being found during surgery!
DT


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## sid&kira

i shall try to have them wormed asap, they need to be fleaed anyway as the dog is due for hers soon and her house needs doing, so best to do them at the same time


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## Twiglet6303

Advocate - Does everything including Heart Worm. Its super duper :smilewinkgrin:


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## Twiglet6303

Advocate - BayerAnimal - Product Detail

I get mine on the Tinternet not vets - saved myself quite a few ££££


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## tillysdream

Double trouble said:


> ALSO it is a falasy that you can always see worms in the animals faerces, this is NOT so! Guess this backs up what the above poster has said regarding worms being found during surgery!
> DT


Agreed! Only very, very heavy worm infestations can be seen in faeces. Most worm burdens go unnoticed, with no tell tale signs....


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## oldDoubletrouble

tillysdream said:


> Agreed! Only very, very heavy worm infestations can be seen in faeces. Most worm burdens go unnoticed, with no tell tale signs....


I am glad that someone can agree with me on that one!!
And just wish more people were aware of this!


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## slicksps

So some mixed reactions again.

Lots of mention of cats, I've not used the cat version only the 'DO NOT USE ON CATS' dogs version.

As said, he's had no problems with it himself, noone's offered any evidence of it's ineffectiveness. It claims to kill fleas on contact. So far he's not contracted fleas. (He had a few scratches which was what prompted me to get onto some form of program. These went away just as quickly, whether or not they were fleas is anyone's guess. Regular paper pepper checks prove negative every time. We're regularly in parks and I have found an abundance of fleas living in our most local one so surely this is a testament to it's effectiveness?

Interesting that someone above had an infestation not fixed with Frontline while other people swear by it. I did a search for Frontline reviews and found many of the same negative reviews (although minus the cat problem) so I'm still confused.

The active ingredient is widely used in a number of applications and is proven to work against insects including mosquitoes being as effective as DEET but less toxic.

I feel that Frontline's price gives a false impression of quality. Surely Bob Martin wouldn't be allowed to sell a product which killed animals and not the fleas it claims. If it was that bad, wouldn't the complaints lead to an investigation?

Searching for Permethrin (The nasty cat-killing substance and active ingredient in the dog version) shows lots of scientific research for flea eradication and is very highly praised, use the brand names and reports claim it's useless.

...I'll finish this course as he's had no adverse reactions or fleas and ask a vet...

Thanks everyone for your feedback.


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## lady_r0gue

Can I point ppl to this thread so I don't repeat myself...
The chemicals in these products have worried me, plus I'm not totally convinced that they are working properly. After some extensive googling I'm gonna try diatomaceous earth...
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-heal...ontline-advantage-stronghold.html#post1080594


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## tillysdream

slicksps said:


> So some mixed reactions again.
> 
> Lots of mention of cats, I've not used the cat version only the 'DO NOT USE ON CATS' dogs version.
> 
> As said, he's had no problems with it himself, noone's offered any evidence of it's ineffectiveness. It claims to kill fleas on contact. So far he's not contracted fleas. (He had a few scratches which was what prompted me to get onto some form of program. These went away just as quickly, whether or not they were fleas is anyone's guess. Regular paper pepper checks prove negative every time. We're regularly in parks and I have found an abundance of fleas living in our most local one so surely this is a testament to it's effectiveness?
> 
> Interesting that someone above had an infestation not fixed with Frontline while other people swear by it. I did a search for Frontline reviews and found many of the same negative reviews (although minus the cat problem) so I'm still confused.
> 
> The active ingredient is widely used in a number of applications and is proven to work against insects including mosquitoes being as effective as DEET but less toxic.
> 
> I feel that Frontline's price gives a false impression of quality. Surely Bob Martin wouldn't be allowed to sell a product which killed animals and not the fleas it claims. If it was that bad, wouldn't the complaints lead to an investigation?
> 
> Searching for Permethrin (The nasty cat-killing substance and active ingredient in the dog version) shows lots of scientific research for flea eradication and is very highly praised, use the brand names and reports claim it's useless.
> 
> ...I'll finish this course as he's had no adverse reactions or fleas and ask a vet...
> 
> Thanks everyone for your feedback.


Bob Martin flea and wormers are very ineffective! FACT!

But sadly you have asked for advise and not taken it on board


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## slicksps

tillysdream, I did ask for advice and got plenty of it, thanks to everyone here. But some people have had problems with this one, some with frontline etc. No fact was mentioned, just individual cases. No news articles, scientific studies.

Chemicals on the whole can have side effects, something I took many years ago to help me stop smoking had the potential to cause seizures and death. Luckily I wasn't one, but when it comes to side effects, rashes, skin complaints etc. it's luck. (or rotten luck) Mine has had no problems, it goes on, the greasy patch goes away quite quickly, his skin is smooth and clear, he's not had convulsions, itching or fleas so my experience so far is much better.

What I want is FACT. But I do need evidence to back it up. While 'my puppy had... ' and 'my dog didnt...' are all very sad (if it happened to mine I'd be angry too) I can't find evidence that it is a) bad for my dog and b) ok for fleas. Medicinal products like this need to be tested before release, noone can just launch a product and say it kills fleas. I could re-label a pot of honey. I bet fleas can't live for very long in honey.

If it really did kill dogs, surely the RSPCA or government at worse would receive enough complaints to run their own warning or banning of the product, responsible pet supply shops wouldn't sell or recommend it.


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## HighPr00

Do you work for Bob Martin? 

I can't understand your reluctance to accept that it's a useless product.


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## slicksps

Don't work for Bob Martin, just trying to isolate the actual facts in this case.

I've been online long enough to not just accept things at face value. Show me a news article 'Hundreds of dogs killed by xxx' or some scientific study to show that Permethrin is useless against fleas and I will happily buy something else and move on.

I've used it, my dog doesn't have fleas, he's a healthy, gorgeous, playful dog. So far that's my evidence. But as with chemicals, fleas can also be luck. Anyone had a flea infestation after using BM's as a preventative course rather than treatment? Anyone here had their dog die from it?

I'm just after the facts.

The VPIS list Permethrin only as dangerous to cats... which we know.


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## BenMac

I've been watching this thread take the usual twists and turns as they do....but cant help wondering why it's even being discussed, to be honest.

You appear to be entirely satisfied with the product and no amount of feedback from any of the other folk seems to make a jot of difference to you.

All folks can do is give you info with regard to their experiences or experiences of friends etc.....it's not for anyone here to go off on a tangent and dig up facts about chemical formulations and such, or percentages of the animals that may or may not have been harmed by the product  so what is it you're asking really??

We're here because we're pet lovers/owners etc....not bio chemists and statisticians. If it is indeed "actual facts" you're after...i'm sure you can have a good dig around for them....because I really cant see that anything anyone here says is going to change your opinion. 

Sorry if that sounds rude....but we just seem to be going around in circles with this


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## lady_r0gue

Let me google that for you


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## slicksps

While I am satisfied, I am worried by the claims online and can't tell if it's hearsay or if there is real proof that it is a bad product.

The clue is in the title: *Vet's opinion needed* on Bob Martin's Spot on

No one has yet claimed to be a vet.

I've Googled research papers, news articles etc. but can find nothing to back up the negative claims. There are so many negative claims however that it's difficult to ignore. Having said that, Jeff Goldblum apparently died on a yacht in New Zealand according to thousands of reports on Twitter. What really happened was one person started a rumour which spread like wildfire. Jeff is thankfully alive and well.

So I'm sorry if I caused offence by investigating claims made by members here, and I'm sorry I don't necessarily take medical advice from people named "lady_r0gue" and "HighPr00" (names chosen at random from page, not intended to be individual attacks) without some form of evidence.

I think it's discussion closed. Of 30 odd people asked, around a third had a problem with it, a third have never used it and the remaining third are rude because I'm questioning the irrefutable evidence. It has proved only one thing. Nothing can beat advice from a professional.


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## Nonnie

slicksps said:


> While I am satisfied, I am worried by the claims online and can't tell if it's hearsay or if there is real proof that it is a bad product.
> 
> The clue is in the title: *Vet's opinion needed* on Bob Martin's Spot on
> 
> No one has yet claimed to be a vet.


I think you find very few (if any) vets post on here. They tend to be far too busy.
They also tend to steer clear of pet forums, due to so many people wanting to get advice from them for nothing.

Have you tried asking your own vet?


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## BenMac

slicksps said:


> While I am satisfied, I am worried by the claims online and can't tell if it's hearsay or if there is real proof that it is a bad product.
> 
> The clue is in the title: *Vet's opinion needed* on Bob Martin's Spot on
> 
> No one has yet claimed to be a vet.
> 
> I've Googled research papers, news articles etc. but can find nothing to back up the negative claims. There are so many negative claims however that it's difficult to ignore. Having said that, Jeff Goldblum apparently died on a yacht in New Zealand according to thousands of reports on Twitter. What really happened was one person started a rumour which spread like wildfire. Jeff is thankfully alive and well.
> 
> So I'm sorry if I caused offence by investigating claims made by members here, and I'm sorry I don't necessarily take medical advice from people named "lady_r0gue" and "HighPr00" (names chosen at random from page, not intended to be individual attacks) without some form of evidence.
> 
> I think it's discussion closed. Of 30 odd people asked, around a third had a problem with it, a third have never used it and the remaining third are rude because I'm questioning the irrefutable evidence. It has proved only one thing. Nothing can beat advice from a professional.


I can only suggest that you start phoning around Vet's offices then...could have saved yourself some time by cutting out the middle man :idea:


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## slicksps

He's new to the family so we don't have a vet yet. He is due to have his boosters at the end of the month so I will.

I will also tell them what a great marketing method the Internet is and why they should offer free advice on forums such as this one.  I offer free advice in my own field and it works wonders.


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## slicksps

BenMac said:


> I can only suggest that you start phoning around Vet's offices then...could have saved yourself some time by cutting out the middle man :idea:


Would have saved a great deal of time if there were more vets here, but until now I would have suspected one or two would wander by. Makes me wonder if a dog's health forum is potentially damaging unless the end of every post says 'see a vet'

Having said that, most do...


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## Nonnie

slicksps said:


> He's new to the family so we don't have a vet yet. He is due to have his boosters at the end of the month so I will.
> 
> I will also tell them what a great marketing method the Internet is and why they should offer free advice on forums such as this one.  I offer free advice in my own field and it works wonders.


That would be a legal minefield.

A vet shouldnt give advice when they havent seen the animal. Im not even sure they legally can.


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## slicksps

Nonnie said:


> That would be a legal minefield.
> 
> A vet shouldnt give advice when they havent seen the animal. Im not even sure they legally can.


You're probably right, some things can be done online though although most I'm sure will be for general reassurance "Yes that's perfectly normal" or "Consult your vet" etc. which to some extent is happening anyway. Interesting that a vet would have problems offering advice while normal people are able to categorically state that x product kills dogs without evidence.


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## Nonnie

slicksps said:


> You're probably right, some things can be done online though although most I'm sure will be for general reassurance "Yes that's perfectly normal" or "Consult your vet" etc. which to some extent is happening anyway. Interesting that a vet would have problems offering advice while normal people are able to categorically state that x product kills dogs without evidence.


Its mostly from personal experiences. Ive seen cats die from BM products, so i know it to be fact.

Its illegal for Joe Public to diagnose. Most people offer support or tales of similar experiences.

A vet has a legal obligation that if not followed, could mean they are struck off. Also vets run a business. Why would they give out free advice?


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## BenMac

slicksps said:


> Would have saved a great deal of time if there were more vets here, but until now I would have suspected one or two would wander by. Makes me wonder if a dog's health forum is potentially damaging unless the end of every post says 'see a vet'
> 
> Having said that, most do...


I really dont think that these kind of forums are to be seen as some sort of alternative to seeking a vet's advice , nor would I expect that folk use them in that context....so cant see that they are "damaging".

They are a place for exchanging views, banter, real life experiences etc as word of mouth opinions can be useful at times.

I wouldn't however expect that if I posted a threat on how to do a d.i.y castration on your dog....that someone would think...."oh goody...i'll give that a go!"

When it comes to medications and such...the answer ALWAYS has to be "ask your vet"....you'd ask your own GP or pharmicist if it was something for you wouldn't you?


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## slicksps

Medicines for me? I don't care about me  But him yes.

While I agree the answer should always be 'ask a vet' there are some people in a recent post are suggesting that some human medicines are ok for dogs including Ibuprofen which is toxic to dogs. If I followed that advice, I could end up killing my beloved pet. This forum should have a disclaimer. I know most won't do it just because someone else suggested it (hence my own scepticism on this thread) but some might and as petforums.co.uk is legally a publisher, they could be liable.

"I've seen people talk about DIY castration on some forum... worrying that anyone would try... let alone go on to suggest it to others"


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## Nonnie

slicksps said:


> Medicines for me? I don't care about me  But him yes.
> 
> While I agree the answer should always be 'ask a vet' there are some people in a recent post are suggesting that some human medicines are ok for dogs including Ibuprofen which is toxic to dogs. If I followed that advice, I could end up killing my beloved pet.


Tbh, if someone is prepared to follow the advice re: medications, from some unknown person on the internet, then id seriously question their mental capacity and ability to own a living creature.

You will always find conflicting opinions. The ONLY one that matters is from the person who has spent years of their life training and studying and thats a vet.

Its common sense that a vet should be consulted before coming online and seeking advice. Its is worrying that sop many people dont do this, and many of us are constantly telling them to do so.

Some vets do say that Ibuprofen is safe in small doses. My vet uses a remedy that would horrify some people, but its extremely affective.


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## BenMac

slicksps said:


> Medicines for me? I don't care about me  But him yes.
> 
> While I agree the answer should always be 'ask a vet' there are some people in a recent post are suggesting that some human medicines are ok for dogs including Ibuprofen which is toxic to dogs. If I followed that advice, I could end up killing my beloved pet. This forum should have a disclaimer. I know most won't do it just because someone else suggested it (hence my own scepticism on this thread) but some might and as petforums.co.uk is legally a publisher, they could be liable.
> 
> "I've seen people talk about DIY castration on some forum... worrying that anyone would try... let alone go on to suggest it to others"


Some human medications are safe....some aren't....i've posted on that thread myself as it happens. Again...I'm pretty sure I said "ask the vet" 

I wouldn't personally take any actual medical advice from anyone apart from a vet....but i'm interested in hearing about other folks results/side effects and such from products/meds that they've used.

I'm am experienced dog/horse/bird owner and have been lucky to have good relationships with vets, never been afraid to ask questions about alternative medications or indeed human alternatives. Believe me....a vet would probably prefer you to administer a safe "human option" to your animal....than for the animal to remain untreated due to folks being prohibited by costly vet bills.

As for a disclaimer....WHY? The purpose of a forum is simply to exchange views/feedback/support. It is a social arena...not a professional one. Anyone actually using them as a "this is how to do it bible" should really just stick to plants and ornaments


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## lady_r0gue

I asked my vet and they told me that Bob Martin doesn't work. But apparently BM took two vets to court for repeatedly telling ppl this and won, so I won't give out his number! Whether or not you are registered with the vet it is perfectly possible to call them and ask whether they would recommend it as a product. Bet u any money they won't...


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## tillysdream

slicksps said:


> tillysdream, I did ask for advice and got plenty of it, thanks to everyone here. But some people have had problems with this one, some with frontline etc. No fact was mentioned, just individual cases. No news articles, scientific studies.
> 
> Chemicals on the whole can have side effects, something I took many years ago to help me stop smoking had the potential to cause seizures and death. Luckily I wasn't one, but when it comes to side effects, rashes, skin complaints etc. it's luck. (or rotten luck) Mine has had no problems, it goes on, the greasy patch goes away quite quickly, his skin is smooth and clear, he's not had convulsions, itching or fleas so my experience so far is much better.
> 
> What I want is FACT. But I do need evidence to back it up. While 'my puppy had... ' and 'my dog didnt...' are all very sad (if it happened to mine I'd be angry too) I can't find evidence that it is a) bad for my dog and b) ok for fleas. Medicinal products like this need to be tested before release, noone can just launch a product and say it kills fleas. I could re-label a pot of honey. I bet fleas can't live for very long in honey.
> 
> If it really did kill dogs, surely the RSPCA or government at worse would receive enough complaints to run their own warning or banning of the product, responsible pet supply shops wouldn't sell or recommend it.


Ok, we will take the deaths of animals out of the equation...

Bob Martins Flea treatments and wormers are ineffective, as is flea collars.... They may kill some of the fleas, but not all of them. Thus because it kills 'some' of the fleas, is allowed to be sold. But won't deal with the problem totally. The same with their wormer!

Now, ALL vets would NEVER recommend the use of Bob Martins! That should be reason enough, after all they have studied for 5-6 years to give that opinion....

Why mess around with your animals health, to save a couple of ££££££'s?

You sound a very intelligent man/woman, so baffles me why you are posting in defense of a bad manufacturer..... (Or maybe you just want to argue)


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## Sylvestris Kennels

BenMac said:


> I really dont think that these kind of forums are to be seen as some sort of alternative to seeking a vet's advice , nor would I expect that folk use them in that context....so cant see that they are "damaging".
> 
> They are a place for exchanging views, *banter*, real life experiences etc as word of mouth opinions can be useful at times.
> 
> I wouldn't however expect that *if I posted a threat **on how to do a d.i.y castration on your dog*....that someone would think...."oh goody...i'll give that a go!"
> 
> When it comes to medications and such...the answer ALWAYS has to be "ask your vet"....you'd ask your own GP or pharmicist if it was something for you wouldn't you?


Posting a "*threat*" on DIY castration Poor little doggy

Before you shout....I believe this is banter:001_tt2:


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## BenMac

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> Posting a "*threat*" on DIY castration Poor little doggy
> 
> Before you shout....I believe this is banter:001_tt2:


LOL!!! I meant THREAD! :001_tt2:
Must bloody spellcheck!

Catherine


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## slicksps

Lady_R0gue, BM would have only have won if the vet could prove that the product was dangerous and/or doesn't prevent flea infestation.

Tillysdream - Cats have died, and that is a terrible thing. But I don't have any cats. Can you find any reports of dogs who have died from this treatment as I am specifically using BM's dog flea spot on.

I'm not trying to defend Bob Martins, I'm trying to find out why everyone hates it. To be honest the best factual argument I've seen here is basically "It's cheaper so must be bad"

I give up, I'll just shave him. That'll keep the fleas off.


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## BenMac

slicksps said:


> Lady_R0gue, BM would have only have won if the vet could prove that the product was dangerous and/or doesn't prevent flea infestation.
> 
> Tillysdream - Cats have died, and that is a terrible thing. But I don't have any cats. Can you find any reports of dogs who have died from this treatment as I am specifically using BM's dog flea spot on.
> 
> I'm not trying to defend Bob Martins, I'm trying to find out why everyone hates it. To be honest the best factual argument I've seen here is basically "It's cheaper so must be bad"
> 
> I give up, I'll just shave him. That'll keep the fleas off.


Let's not throw our toys out the pram 

I think you're just going to have to accept that the folks on here have a negative opinion of it and leave it at that.

You've said yourself that you're looking for a Vet's opinion...you wont find that here...just the opinion of other owners/consumers.


----------



## tillysdream

slicksps said:


> Lady_R0gue, BM would have only have won if the vet could prove that the product was dangerous and/or doesn't prevent flea infestation.
> 
> Tillysdream - Cats have died, and that is a terrible thing. But I don't have any cats. Can you find any reports of dogs who have died from this treatment as I am specifically using BM's dog flea spot on.
> 
> I'm not trying to defend Bob Martins, I'm trying to find out why everyone hates it. To be honest the best factual argument I've seen here is basically "It's cheaper so must be bad"
> 
> I give up, I'll just shave him. That'll keep the fleas off.


PHONE A VET, AND ASK! 

And yes, I have seen dogs die also....

AND......IT IS INEFFECTIVE...... FACT!

I worked in the veterinary field for several years, but my word and the others on here is not good enough for you. 

IMO people who want to save a buck or two, will always try and justify doing so. While the animals suffer....


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

slicksps said:


> While I am satisfied, I am worried by the claims online and can't tell if it's hearsay or if there is real proof that it is a bad product.
> 
> The clue is in the title: *Vet's opinion needed* on Bob Martin's Spot on
> 
> No one has yet claimed to be a vet.
> 
> I've Googled research papers, news articles etc. but can find nothing to back up the negative claims. There are so many negative claims however that it's difficult to ignore. Having said that, Jeff Goldblum apparently died on a yacht in New Zealand according to thousands of reports on Twitter. What really happened was one person started a rumour which spread like wildfire. Jeff is thankfully alive and well.
> 
> So I'm sorry if I caused offence by investigating claims made by members here, and I'm sorry I don't necessarily take medical advice from people named "lady_r0gue" and "HighPr00" (names chosen at random from page, not intended to be individual attacks) without some form of evidence.
> 
> I think it's discussion closed. Of 30 odd people asked, around a third had a problem with it, a third have never used it and the remaining third are rude because I'm questioning the irrefutable evidence. It has proved only one thing. Nothing can beat advice from a professional.


I have followed this thread from the start and whilst I appreciate the claims made I too have yet to see imperical evidence to back up the arguments.

Tillysdream, here's another of my crazy analogies: Nuts can kill humans - but we still eat them, penicillin can kill humans, bit it is still the antibiotic of first choice...my point is the probability of a reaction to these products is very small and so they are safe for the majority - I suspect that is the same with BM and so wanted, for balance, that to be said.

However, personally I will in future stick with the vet issued products as they work much better and therefore are better value for money (I have 3 different products in the house at present).

In addition to the point above, this thread has also made me look into the ingredients of the different spot-on (inc different brands) products I have, as a forester we use the active ingredient in many cheaper products directly on young trees as an insecticide - it is very effective, but also very toxic to humans - so much so that breathing masks should be used with its application - this therefore cannot be good for dogs in however small a concentration, so I will not use them again. I however have no knowledge of the active ingredients in the vet issued products, but will have to take a leap of faith they are better for the animal


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

tillysdream said:


> PHONE A VET, AND ASK!
> 
> *And yes, I have seen dogs die also*....
> 
> *AND......IT IS INEFFECTIVE...... FACT*!
> 
> I worked in the veterinary field for several years, but my word and the others on here is not good enough for you.
> 
> IMO people who want to save a buck or two, will always try and justify doing so. While the animals suffer....


I actually agree with you on the second highlighted point but shouting never works and most people like to see evidence, especially for statements like the first highlighted point.

I can't see this discussion advancing unless some evidence they cause death can be produced, i.e surveys, statistical analysis, reports etc

I not having a go, but I could say i'm 60 and a vet with 35 years experience and BM is brill - people won't believe me unless I can demonstrate it. Obviously it's different in person at a vets as we know the person in front of us is qualified - hopefully


----------



## sequeena

I don't see why you just don't buy Frontline ... seriously. It's a bit more expensive but it's GOOD and it WORKS.


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

BenMac said:


> LOL!!! I meant THREAD! :001_tt2:
> Must bloody spellcheck!
> 
> Catherine


Teehee


----------



## tillysdream

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> I have followed this thread from the start and whilst I appreciate the claims made I too have yet to see imperical evidence to back up the arguments.
> 
> Tillysdream, here's another of my crazy analogies: Nuts can kill humans - but we still eat them, penicillin can kill humans, bit it is still the antibiotic of first choice...my point is the probability of a reaction to these products is very small and so they are safe for the majority - I suspect that is the same with BM and so wanted, for balance, that to be said.
> 
> However, personally I will in future stick with the vet issued products as they work much better and therefore are better value for money (I have 3 different products in the house at present).
> 
> In addition to the point above, this thread has also made me look into the ingredients of the different spot-on (inc different brands) products I have, as a forester we use the active ingredient in many cheaper products directly on young trees as an insecticide - it is very effective, but also very toxic to humans - so much so that breathing masks should be used with its application - this therefore cannot be good for dogs in however small a concentration, so I will not use them again. I however have no knowledge of the active ingredients in the vet issued products, but will have to take a leap of faith they are better for the animal


I agree (for once) with you Ian 

There is risks/side effects with any drug, but at least THEY are effective.

Bob Martin has huge risks and ineffective......


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

slicksps said:


> Lady_R0gue, BM would have only have won if the vet could prove that the product was dangerous and/or doesn't prevent flea infestation.
> 
> Tillysdream - Cats have died, and that is a terrible thing. But I don't have any cats. Can you find any reports of dogs who have died from this treatment as I am specifically using BM's dog flea spot on.
> 
> I'm not trying to defend Bob Martins, I'm trying to find out why everyone hates it. To be honest the best factual argument I've seen here is basically "It's cheaper so must be bad"
> 
> *I give up, I'll just shave him.* *That'll keep the fleas off*.


Nope - the fleas can survive without hair - in the carpet/car/pet beds/your bed/etc


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

tillysdream said:


> *I agree (for once) with you Ian *
> 
> There is risks/side effects with any drug, but at least THEY are effective.
> 
> Bob Martin has huge risks and ineffective......


    What is the world coming too   

Is the end near?


----------



## rebenda

Im a nurse in a vet practise (only my opinion and what ive seen)and it shouldnt be on the shelves! we'v come across hundreds literally of cats die through fitting from this product its so dangerous, it works by making the fleas fit and die( even though ive not actually seen it get rid of the fleas possibly because it doesnt go off correct wieght of the animal its being applied on) I would spend the extra money on buying something like frontline, stronghold or advocate as your wasting your money on bob martin


----------



## BenMac

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> What is the world coming too
> 
> Is the end near?


Can opening....worms EVERYWHERE! Literally! :001_tt2:


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

sequeena said:


> I don't see why you just don't buy Frontline ... seriously. It's a bit more expensive but it's GOOD and it WORKS.


IndeedThat's all we use know - I'm not sure if i'm even going to use the old stuff (non frontline) I found at the back of the dog cupboard.


----------



## tillysdream

The OP is reading some of my old threads  right now.

Can't help wondering why....????


----------



## BenMac

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> IndeedThat's all we use know - I'm not sure if i'm even going to use the old stuff (non frontline) I found at the back of the dog cupboard.


Why....was it Bob Martins? :wink5:

Sorry...couldn't resist!


----------



## rebenda

tillysdream said:


> The OP is reading some of my old threads  right now.
> 
> Can't help wondering why....????


Howd u Know that???

Im interested


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

BenMac said:


> Why....was it Bob Martins? :wink5:
> 
> Sorry...couldn't resist!


One is...one isn't....but the packaging looks remarkably similar on them both, as do the ingredients.

I'm sticking with the frontline


----------



## tillysdream

rebenda said:


> Howd u Know that???
> 
> Im interested


Clicked on their profile, and it says what thread they are reading 

Ian, don't use the old stuff you have found in the cupboard. It will be old and out of date, thus even more dangerous!


----------



## tillysdream

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> One is...one isn't....but the packaging looks remarkably similar on them both, as do the ingredients.
> 
> I'm sticking with the frontline


Glad to hear it! Almost tempted to give ya good rep!


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

rebenda said:


> Howd u Know that???
> 
> Im interested


Its easy - click quick links and then who's on-line - at 18-47 you were viewing forum - General Chat....Whaaahaahaaaaaa.

Oh thats not so scary once you give the secret away.....


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

tillysdream said:


> Clicked on their profile, and it says what thread they are reading
> 
> Ian, *don't use the old stuff you have found in the cupboard. It will be old and out of date, thus even more dangerous*!


Its not that old - I've still got til early 2010. Still not going to use it



tillysdream said:


> Glad to hear it! Almost tempted to give ya good rep!


steady on - baby steps....baby steps


----------



## sequeena

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> IndeedThat's all we use know - I'm not sure if i'm even going to use the old stuff (non frontline) I found at the back of the dog cupboard.


lmao yes stick with the frontline!! God knows what that stuff has been growing in all that time in the back of your cupboard 

There's also Advantage and Stronghold I believe which is also very good!!

OP you can get GREAT deals on Frontline online. From the vet I think the pump spray is around £30 but it is much cheaper online


----------



## HighPr00

sequeena said:


> lmao yes stick with the frontline!! God knows what that stuff has been growing in all that time in the back of your cupboard


But it's cheaper and if they don't get fleas after then it's proof that it's still effective. :001_tt2:


----------



## sequeena

HighPr00 said:


> But it's cheaper and if they don't get fleas after then it's proof that it's still effective. :001_tt2:


Or...you'll have a dead dog


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

sequeena said:


> Or...you'll have a dead dog


Well....I have used them before on many dogs, so I am going to say a dead dog is unlikely.

However, I am also going to say they do work, but only for a very short period - say 2 weeks - which is nowhere near as long as the frontline - so whilst they are cheaper - you have to use more - so it works out more costly - and if it costs more and could cause harm, why use them?


----------



## sequeena

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> Well....I have used them before on many dogs, so I am going to say a dead dog is unlikely.
> 
> However, I am also going to say they do work, but only for a very short period - say 2 weeks - which is nowhere near as long as the frontline - so whilst they are cheaper - you have to use more - so it works out more costly - and if it costs more and could cause harm, why use them?


Great point! If you have to use it that often wouldn't you risk the fleas becoming immune or in the worst case possible overdose?


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

sequeena said:


> Great point! If you have to use it that often wouldn't you risk the fleas becoming immune or in the worst case possible overdose?


Don't know about immunity, the stuff is a poison, so think unlikely but I'm no biologist.....well actually I am but I do trees!

Over-dose for this stuff is a reapplication in 7 days - the frontline overdose period is longer, presumably as it lasts longer in the dog?


----------



## sequeena

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> Don't know about immunity, the stuff is a poison, so think unlikely but I'm no biologist.....well actually I am but I do trees!
> 
> Over-dose for this stuff is a reapplication in 7 days - the frontline overdose period is longer, presumably as it lasts longer in the dog?


Yes frontline lasts for around 6 weeks - possibly longer!

Aha thanks! You learn something new everyday


----------



## Sylvestris Kennels

sequeena said:


> *Yes frontline lasts for around 6 weeks *- possibly longer!
> 
> Aha thanks! You learn something new everyday


3 months my frontline packet here says.

The cheaper stuff both say 1 month,

So if that lasts 2 weeks - that is half the suggested period.

Which makes you correct with the 6 weeks for the frontline (at half quoted period - I love dodgy reasoning!)

Edit: I'm not sure on the costs - but I don't think the frontline is 3 times the price - hence it is better value in the long run

Edit2: Oh and works better!


----------



## sequeena

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> 3 months my frontline packet here says.
> 
> The cheaper stuff both say 1 month,
> 
> So if that lasts 2 weeks - that is half the suggested period.
> 
> Which makes you correct with the 6 weeks for the frontline (at half quoted period - I love dodgy reasoning!)
> 
> Edit: I'm not sure on the costs - but I don't think the frontline is 3 times the price - hence it is better value in the long run
> 
> Edit2: Oh and works better!


Woohoo!!  Yes it says 3 months but I find that it doesn't stretch that far. Possibly because my 3 dogs are out mixing with other dogs all the time.

For my cat a pack of 3 frontline pipettes comes in at £17 from one of the smaller pet shops. The last time I checked you can get it for about £10.50 online!!

And yes it works so much better!


----------



## Sarahnya

I hadn't heard of it harming dogs until I read this post but every vet I've every asked about it says it doesn't kill fleas so I have never bothered with it.

Always used Frontline myself, I find you don't have to apply it quite as often as it says either, this may be because I don't have a lot of carpet in the house and I reguarly wash the dog bedding.


----------



## slicksps

Will ask a vet. Just did some more searching:

Google: "Frontline killed my dog" - lots of results
Google: "permethrin killed my dog" - lots of results

Alarming reports from many of them.

Dogs get fleas, that's definitely a fact. Mine's ok with the chemical so far so if he contracts fleas, I'll switch to Frontline. Running regular blood spot paper tests so will report back if anything goes awry.

The RSPCA themselves sell frontline and permethrin based products for dogs. (though not specifically Bob Martin's, if Permethrin is the problem and not other chemicals in the mix, then probably not something to be concerned about)

I don't know any more, I really am losing my sanity over what's safe and what's not.

I find the duration of effectiveness interesting though. Will perhaps look at it from that angle.


----------



## sequeena

Also, if you're looking for a prevention for fleas garlic supplements in their food works really well  started doing this not too long ago with my lot and now I don't need to deflea as often.


----------



## tillysdream

sequeena said:


> Also, if you're looking for a prevention for fleas garlic supplements in their food works really well  started doing this not too long ago with my lot and now I don't need to deflea as often.


Not for cats!!!!!!! (Forgive me, I am on one today lol)......

Onions, Shallots, Spring Onions, Garlic etc 

Onions contain disulphides (or thiosulphate) that destroy red blood cells in the cat, causing a form of anaemia called Heinz body anaemia (a haemolytic or red-cell-bursting anaemia). All forms of onion are toxic: raw, dried, powdered or cooked. Ready meals, takeaways and baby foods containing onion or onion powder must not be fed to pets as treats. Baby food such as "beef dinner" or "lamb dinner" is sometimes fed to cats as a tonic, but the onion powder used to add flavour will do more harm than good. Onion powder may be used as a flavouring in instant gravy.

Garlic contains a similar substance in a lesser amount and much larger quantities would be needed to cause illness. In some continental countries owners have added a little garlic to a pet's meals on the basis that garlic is good for humans so it must be good for pets as well. With their very different liver function, foods harmless to humans can be deadly to cats.

Onion toxicity results in haemolytic anaemia, where the red blood cells burst while circulating in its body. Symptoms occur a few days after eating onion. The first symptoms are generally gastroenteritis with vomiting and diarrhoea, loss of appetite and lethargy (because the oxygen-carrying red blood cells are damaged). The red pigment from the burst blood cells is excreted in the urine and it becomes breathless as there are fewer cells to transport oxygen around the body.

Onion poisoning can result after a single meal containing a large amount of onion relative to body size or repeated meals containing smaller amounts of onion.

Chives are sometimes used as a flavouring in commercial cat foods. Although potentially toxic to cats (in large quantities), chive leaves are eaten rather than the bulbs. Some cats are attracted to chives and will eat them from the herb garden. However, I would prefer that the Co-Op did not produce a chicken and chives variety as it gives a mixed message to owners. For safety, the onion family is best avoided altogether.


----------



## sequeena

tillysdream said:


> Not for cats!!!!!!! (Forgive me, I am on one today lol)......
> 
> Onions, Shallots, Spring Onions, Garlic etc
> 
> Onions contain disulphides (or thiosulphate) that destroy red blood cells in the cat, causing a form of anaemia called Heinz body anaemia (a haemolytic or red-cell-bursting anaemia). All forms of onion are toxic: raw, dried, powdered or cooked. Ready meals, takeaways and baby foods containing onion or onion powder must not be fed to pets as treats. Baby food such as "beef dinner" or "lamb dinner" is sometimes fed to cats as a tonic, but the onion powder used to add flavour will do more harm than good. Onion powder may be used as a flavouring in instant gravy.
> 
> Garlic contains a similar substance in a lesser amount and much larger quantities would be needed to cause illness. In some continental countries owners have added a little garlic to a pet's meals on the basis that garlic is good for humans so it must be good for pets as well. With their very different liver function, foods harmless to humans can be deadly to cats.
> 
> Onion toxicity results in haemolytic anaemia, where the red blood cells burst while circulating in its body. Symptoms occur a few days after eating onion. The first symptoms are generally gastroenteritis with vomiting and diarrhoea, loss of appetite and lethargy (because the oxygen-carrying red blood cells are damaged). The red pigment from the burst blood cells is excreted in the urine and it becomes breathless as there are fewer cells to transport oxygen around the body.
> 
> Onion poisoning can result after a single meal containing a large amount of onion relative to body size or repeated meals containing smaller amounts of onion.
> 
> Chives are sometimes used as a flavouring in commercial cat foods. Although potentially toxic to cats (in large quantities), chive leaves are eaten rather than the bulbs. Some cats are attracted to chives and will eat them from the herb garden. However, I would prefer that the Co-Op did not produce a chicken and chives variety as it gives a mixed message to owners. For safety, the onion family is best avoided altogether.


No I don't give it to the cat  She's indoor so like the dogs she only needs defleaing when they have them 

Thanks for the info though!


----------



## dinks

Yes it is a very poor ineffective product.
The danger occurs in the owners not following dosing instructions and this is when problems occur.Permithrin is toxic to cats - owners who have dogs and cats will put the dog version on the cat as they have it in the house- or the cat will snuggle up to the dog and come into contact with it.
Over dosing also occurs eg owners applying the large dose meant for a gsd on a yorkie-this is when the deaths occur.
The reason Frontline and Drontal need SQPs to sell them and are locked away is simply for correct dosing- not to make money!
People will also sometimes split a pippette between dogs as well - same scenario they will buy a pippette meant for a 20kg dog and split it between their two 10kg dogs thinking they are going to save money but they end up with dead dogs at the end of it- again overdosing the dogs and not realising what they are doing!Same applies with cat owners who have just got new kittens they will apply the adult version and split the pippette between the cats.
Have seen it time and time again what these poor animals go through and the owners to as they have no idea at the time until it is too late.
Basically as long as the correct dose is given and the correct product the will most likely be fine- but they will still have fleas!:smilewinkgrin:


----------



## slicksps

I've just looked up Garlic and there seems to be mixed information about that for dogs too. Being in the onion family it seems to contain the same substance as onions although lower dosages tend to be recommended. It's all confusing stuff!

In response to dinks, If I remember rightly, frontline used to be by prescription only (as did most chemical based flea treatments) presumably because of the overdosing problem. It was then released for over the counter sale to ensure it was more widely used. They were underestimating the public's intelligence when it came to it but from what you say maybe they weren't. I would have thought half a 20kg bottle would have been fine for two 10kg dogs but I guess that's to do with concentration rather than the quantity of liquid. For it to work, they would have had to dilute it with the neutral oils which help it bind to the dog's natural oils. If I had two small dogs, I probably would have blindly tried it myself.

Luckily I only have one, we weighed him before buying so made sure we bought the correct dosage first time round of both this and the worming tablets.


----------



## slicksps

Yeah thanks guys. Gave him a little garlic in his chicken, he lapped it up like there was no tomorrow. Two hours later I had to clean it off the carpet.

He seems fine otherwise and as nothing else has changed in his diet, I can only assume his stomach doesn't like Garlic. I'm sure he'll be eating again by breakfast.

Am surprised how I didn't react to my puppy puke like I do with child puke  Less of that bile smell I think.


----------



## tillysdream

The jury is out on garlics use in dogs, and the fact it repells fleas.... People need to remember what is good for humans is not necessary good for our pets. 

But I will say....

Plants of the onion family(onions, garlic, leek, shallot & chive) can cause damage to red blood cells, which may lead to anaemia, weakness & vomiting in both dogs & cats.

Hence why your dog decorated your carpet!

But problems are seen far more commonly in cats!


----------



## xxwelshcrazyxx

I used to use Bob Martin product's, they were crap and didnt work at all. In the summer months my dog still had some fleas after the treatment, what a waste of money, I go to my vets and get Frontline for all mine, it works very very good, no fleas left. It does what it says and I will not waste my money and cheap shop products that do not do the same job. It also helps with worms too which is brilliant. Works for me and will stay on it. i paid good money for my dogs so I want good products to keep them in tip top condition. You wouldnt scrimp and save to treat a child so why do it with animals, mine are as precious to me as my children. As was mentioned in earlier reply, [email protected] sell this product and it is cheaper now, but held in a cabinet where you have to sign a form with your name and address on before they will sell it to you. xxxx


----------



## slicksps

Why do they want your name and address before they sell it? Marketing?

I did suspect the garlic/onion thing. He's absolutely fine this morning. It's so good he's young and healthy enough for animal experimentation :-/

Garlic and onion family staying well out of his diet from now on. There's a nice 'toxic to dogs' list somewhere in the forum, will print it out and stick it on the fridge with their permission.

@welshcrazy comment about summer months. Perhaps that is why we're flea-less at the moment. I didn't even consider seasons having anything to do with it.


----------



## sequeena

slicksps said:


> Yeah thanks guys. Gave him a little garlic in his chicken, he lapped it up like there was no tomorrow. Two hours later I had to clean it off the carpet.
> 
> He seems fine otherwise and as nothing else has changed in his diet, I can only assume his stomach doesn't like Garlic. I'm sure he'll be eating again by breakfast.
> 
> Am surprised how I didn't react to my puppy puke like I do with child puke  Less of that bile smell I think.


You didn't give him ACTUAL garlic did you?  I only give mine a garlic tablet.


----------



## allat

There is now a new product (Effipro) on the market, which is the same as Frontline, but cheaper. Ask your vet about it.
I agree with false economy to buy supermarket drugs... they do not work at the same efficiency level. In the end you pay even more, because either you will have to spend money on more efficient and safer drugs, or your pet develops side effects and reactions that may require treatment.


----------



## xxwelshcrazyxx

slicksps said:


> Why do they want your name and address before they sell it? Marketing?
> 
> I did suspect the garlic/onion thing. He's absolutely fine this morning. It's so good he's young and healthy enough for animal experimentation :-/
> 
> Garlic and onion family staying well out of his diet from now on. There's a nice 'toxic to dogs' list somewhere in the forum, will print it out and stick it on the fridge with their permission.
> 
> @welshcrazy comment about summer months. Perhaps that is why we're flea-less at the moment. I didn't even consider seasons having anything to do with it.


I mentioned about my dogs...............thanks


----------



## Dirky47

lady_r0gue said:


> There are quite a few vet's opinions on this group xx
> 
> Bob Martin Flea Products - Kills your pets but not their fleas | Facebook


This could be really helpful try to join this group and got fresh tips about pet products!


----------



## HighPr00

sequeena said:


> You didn't give him ACTUAL garlic did you?  I only give mine a garlic tablet.


I give my dogs actual garlic, never had a problem with it.

Garlic isn't harmful in *moderation* but it can be harmful in high doses, as are most things!


----------



## WaveRider

HighPr00 said:


> I give my dogs actual garlic, never had a problem with it.
> 
> Garlic isn't harmful in *moderation* but it can be harmful in high doses, as are most things!


----------



## Dirky47

HighPr00 said:


> I give my dogs actual garlic, never had a problem with it.
> 
> Garlic isn't harmful in *moderation* but it can be harmful in high doses, as are most things!


Well, You have a good point on that. :thumbup1:


----------



## dodgysbitch

I would just like to warn everyone about bob martins flee products. Do not use. Extremely poisonous to cats. I de fleed all my animals this afternoon at aprox 2pm and by 4 pm my poor cat was fitting violently.vet knew emediately what was wrong,and what flee product i had used. Dont risk it guys.


----------



## Toni2018

tillysdream said:


> Stay clear of Bob martins Spot on, it is ineffective as a flea treatment and it IS dangerous! If you care for your pet (which I am sure you do) buy Frontline or a similar product from a vets. [email protected] now sell Frontline, but it is locked away and you need to ask for a specially trained member of staff to sell it to you!
> 
> Frontline isn't that expensive, your pets health is worth it!
> 
> Bob Martins products could land you with vets bills in the hundreds, if an adverse reaction occurs (this is COMMON!!!) or even worse a dead dog!
> 
> I worked in a Vets surgery for several years, and unfortunately have seen this happen. Stay clear of Bob Martin wormers as well, or any supermarket (cheap) wormer. They are false ecomomy!


I believe my cat is having seizures due to this all they are doing at the vet at the moment is using anti seizure meds 
Does anyone else know how to cure them once it's in their system? I don't want my cat to die! He's been having seizures for a week now!


----------



## Burrowzig

Toni2018 said:


> I believe my cat is having seizures due to this all they are doing at the vet at the moment is using anti seizure meds
> Does anyone else know how to cure them once it's in their system? I don't want my cat to die! He's been having seizures for a week now!


How's your cat today? 
I don't know there's much a vet can do other than prevent further seizures and support organ function until the toxin works its way out of the system. How did your cat come to be affected - did you put it on a dog that the cat was in contact with?


----------



## Toni2018

Burrowzig said:


> How's your cat today?
> I don't know there's much a vet can do other than prevent further seizures and support organ function until the toxin works its way out of the system. How did your cat come to be affected - did you put it on a dog that the cat was in contact with?


The seizures seem to be slightly closer together but less severe despite being on antiseizure medication. They will now be adding an additional medication to see if that will control/ prevent them. 
Still waiting for the results of some blood treats trying to rule out the cause. 
I don't own dogs but symptoms started after applying a cat wormer treatment to his back but he was able to lick where it was applied so it was injested, tried to stop him but he continued. 
Vets think this may be a coincidence as a toxicity tends to last a shorter amount of time however the symptoms occured literally a day after. 
Having read reviews on amazon of the product I've seen the one star reviews saying their cat had become extremely ill/ had seizures and/or worse passed away.
So sad times really I don't know what to do 
On top of that he isn't insured so it's costing quite abit for tests and for him to be at the vets all day.


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## Burrowzig

Toni2018 said:


> but he was able to lick where it was applied so it was injested, tried to stop him but he continued.


That was the time to wash it off, but the damage would already have been started, if it is the cause. When I had cats, I used any spot on medication on the back of the neck where they can't reach. BTW, I'm not a vet. Which wormer was it, what active ingredient?


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## Toni2018

Burrowzig said:


> That was the time to wash it off, but the damage would already have been started, if it is the cause. When I had cats, I used any spot on medication on the back of the neck where they can't reach. BTW, I'm not a vet. Which wormer was it, what active ingredient?


Yeah I always aim for it to b an unreachable place but they do like to wriggle. He has briefly licked his back before after application (different brand) 
Clearly this time it must of been irritating to him which we didn't pick up. 
Unfortunately we are coming to the decision to put him down as despite being on medications his seizures are frequent and the meds make his mobility unstable. 
In terms of quality of life it's very low .

So please protect your cats!


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