# Rules on pick of the litter



## J Hathaway (Mar 21, 2016)

My stud owner wanted pick of the litter but she has now decided she doesn't want a pup an will let a family member choose her pick! The family member chose a pup but said she's not definite that she wants one, I've started taking deposits and sold 3. Do I need to hold on till she makes up her mind or not.. As I don't believe she actually wants one. If she decides later she don't want one How much stud fee do I pay out.. People have said £200 I'm selling pups at £300..any help appreciated


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## miljar (Jan 27, 2012)

There are no rules, as such, and it is all down to the agreement you made in the first place - and agreement that the stud dog owner is now changing. If you have gotten to the stage where you are selling puppies then you really need to know what puppies you have to sell. You cannot really sit on this, and so you need to resolve the issue. Explain the situation, although it is pretty obvious, and make the offer of £200 cash. You did agree a pup (worth £300) at the outset, but you are entitled to a bit of money back as you will have to sell the puppy - plus the aggravation. They can always decide to stick to the original agreement. What you are after is clarity, so you know what to do next, and so you may need to push a bit to get it. Put a time limit, after which you will sell and just give cash. This situation is not of your making, after all.
One of the puppies, in the litter, is not yours, and never has been. What you are trying to do, in effect, is to buy that puppy. You are looking to then sell the pup for£300, so how much you pay is up for negotiation.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

J Hathaway said:


> My stud owner wanted pick of the litter but she has now decided she doesn't want a pup an will let a family member choose her pick! The family member chose a pup but said she's not definite that she wants one, I've started taking deposits and sold 3. Do I need to hold on till she makes up her mind or not.. As I don't believe she actually wants one. If she decides later she don't want one How much stud fee do I pay out.. People have said £200 I'm selling pups at £300..any help appreciated


Surely you put a contract together to state what Plan A was, with contingency back up which you both signed?

If you did not, life does become more difficult


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Personally I would tell the stud owner the agreement of `pick of the litter` was between you, the bitch owner, and them the stud owner, not the stud owners family member. As the stud owner did not take a fee and was expecting the take a puppy I would give her the price of a puppy in stud fees. I would not be happy with this this family member taking a puppy considering you don`t think they even really want one. I presume you are going to be carefully choosing potential new puppy owners and would not sell to someone not quite sure if they want a puppy or not, well that also applies to the stud owners family!

If you give her the value of a pup she will not feel she is losing out on anything and you get to be in control of all the homes your pups go to. 
I have never bred or studded a dog out in my life I am just giving an opinion on allowing a pup to go to home where there is doubt it is even really wanted, I am sure that is something you would want to avoid.


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## Rosies Poochons (May 1, 2016)

Hi there. I actually have a similar situation. My stud owner wanted pick of the litter which I allowed, but he has now decided he no longer wants the puppy. However he has asked for the price of the puppy £650. This isn't about the money at all and I'm actually happy to give him that amount as at least the choice of the new home is down to me and my very strict vetting. But surely, because he has reneged on the agreement, therefore he should just receive the stud fee of £200?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, this is where problems arise when no written contract exists.

When no stud fee has actually been agreed, because the dog owner wants a pup, there can be differing opinions as to how much the stud fee is if the dog owner changes her mind about taking a pup.

If left until after the event, the stud dog owner could pluck any old figure out of the sky.


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## Rosies Poochons (May 1, 2016)

Hi sweety, thank you for your reply. When we discussed the stud the owner asked for £200, then after this requested a puppy. Like I say I'm happy to pay him this amount, as this litter by no means has been bred for money, however just wondered if there was some kind of ruling about this. I know without a contract I don't really have any grounds. Anyway, the most important thing to me is finding the perfect home for these puppies and I'm just so happy that it is me who is choosing this home. Thank you again.for your message


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

There's a big difference between a £200 stud fee and £650. What exceptional qualities does the stud have that would justify such a steep price? I'd normally expect a pick of litter agreement between non registered dogs, where puppies wouldn't sell for that much ( like where 2 people each think their dog " would make a great mum/dad etc") but puppies not registrable at kennel club ( that's a whole other can of worms), or if a very experienced stud owner acted as breeding mentor to a bitch who's lines they wanted to improve their own programme. 
If a £200 stud fee was originally agreed, I can't see how the mating has suddenly become over 3 x more valuable? Also, is there a reason they've suddenly changed their mind about having a puppy? Their stud starting to show signs of something that should have been tested for?
If you need them to agree their stud was the father with the kennel club for registration purposes, then I would suggest to them that you see what the kc thinks of the increase in stud fee. If you aren't going to kc reg the puppies ( another can of worms, and be prepared for awkward questions both here and in "real life"), then tell the stud owner to take their £200 and take a running jump. And don't use an unregistered stud again, or mate your bitch again unless she is health tested and kc reg with no endorsements. Apologies if made assumptions, can only go on the info you give as don't know your situation.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Hang on, just realised your name is Rosies Poochons. Please tell me not yet another "designer" poodle cross, with un health tested parents, probably not even sold as suitable for breeding ( I.e. with no endorsements), that you will sell for the price of a kc reg, healthy puppy, and tell the new owners that they are special unicorn fart dogs that don't shed and have " the best of both parents".
I need a strong coffee, and will return later with the popcorn for when PF kicks off.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Catharinem said:


> Hang on, just realised your name is Rosies Poochons. Please tell me not yet another "designer" poodle cross, with un health tested parents, probably not even sold as suitable for breeding ( I.e. with no endorsements), that you will sell for the price of a kc reg, healthy puppy, and tell the new owners that they are special unicorn fart dogs that don't shed and have " the best of both parents".
> I need a strong coffee, and will return later with the popcorn for when PF kicks off.


I can imagine the coat of a poodle/bichon cross quickly becoming a tangled mat.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Why would you be contemplating homing a puppy to a complete stranger who you know nothing of, not to mention their supposed lack of commitment?

I hope you are vetting other potential owners a damn sight more carefully!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Rosies Poochons said:


> I know without a contract I don't really have any grounds.


But neither does the stud owner, surely?

It's a he said, she said situation.


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## Rosies Poochons (May 1, 2016)

How dare you all judge me!! Both parents have been health tested prior to breeding and the stud is no stranger to me. Hence why i was shocked at his decision. I have vetted every single parent and i have declined potential parents as I deemed them not suitable. I have a fully licensed breeding mentor and have worked alongside my vets throughout the whole breeding and have continued to do so. I suggest all you keyboard warriors get back on your box and offer friendly and worthwhile advice rather than verbally attack someone you know nothing of!!!!


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## Rosies Poochons (May 1, 2016)

Burrowzig said:


> I can imagine the coat of a poodle/bichon cross quickly becoming a tangled mat.


That is why I have put together a full booklet about the poochon, including the need for regular grooming, to every parent.


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## Rosies Poochons (May 1, 2016)

Catharinem said:


> Hang on, just realised your name is Rosies Poochons. Please tell me not yet another "designer" poodle cross, with un health tested parents, probably not even sold as suitable for breeding ( I.e. with no endorsements), that you will sell for the price of a kc reg, healthy puppy, and tell the new owners that they are special unicorn fart dogs that don't shed and have " the best of both parents".
> I need a strong coffee, and will return later with the popcorn for when PF kicks off.


Such a presumptuous person you are Catherine... being disrespectful is a very ugly trait to have.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Rosies Poochons said:


> Such a presumptuous person you are Catherine... being disrespectful is a very ugly trait to have.


So sorry to assume someone going by the name Rosies Poochons was "breeding" yet another unrecognised poodle cross. Please explain what made you think your bitch was of exceptional breeding quality, and confirm she has no endorsements. 
Why did you choose the stud you did? What are his strengths and weaknesses, and do they complement your bitches's faults? What are his health test results? The KC should have a record of them if you can't find the copies of his certificates immediately.
What made you decide that a cross of those two breeds was preferable to a registered full pedigree puppy? I'm assuming that you have a KC registered bitch with no endorsements and good health test results, such that you wouldn't have a problem finding a non endorsed, good example of the same breed who would take your bitch to stud?
We can only go on the information you provide, perhaps a copy of your bitch's registration document showing no endorsements and health screening test results would alleviate some worries, you can always blank out her pedigree name, your name and address. 
A link to your advert and your leaflet would be good as well.
I'm assuming that all puppies will have a vet certificate of health for sale ( though may not rule out future issues), with the corresponding microchip number on the certificate so there can be no question which puppy the health certificate refers to. Also each puppy will have 4 weeks insurance cover with immediate effect from sale? And you have a sale contract whereby you offer rehome help at any point in the future if needed?
That's barely scratching the surface of what's needed to be a breeder and not a puppy farmer.


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## Rosies Poochons (May 1, 2016)

Catharinem said:


> So sorry to assume someone going by the name Rosies Poochons was "breeding" yet another unrecognised poodle cross. Please explain what made you think your bitch was of exceptional breeding quality, and confirm she has no endorsements.
> Why did you choose the stud you did? What are his strengths and weaknesses, and do they complement your bitches's faults? What are his health test results? The KC should have a record of them if you can't find the copies of his certificates immediately.
> What made you decide that a cross of those two breeds was preferable to a registered full pedigree puppy? I'm assuming that you have a KC registered bitch with no endorsements and good health test results, such that you wouldn't have a problem finding a non endorsed, good example of the same breed who would take your bitch to stud?
> We can only go on the information you provide, perhaps a copy of your bitch's registration document showing no endorsements and health screening test results would alleviate some worries, you can always blank out her pedigree name, your name and address.
> ...


Hahahaha... sorry to have wasted your precious time typing all of the above. For the record, the answer to all of the above would be yes, plus a whole lot more. I refuse to explain myself to a jumped up keyboard warrior who's main attributes are being disrespectful and damn right rude. You have the nerve to question my ability as a 'breeder' and know nothing about me. Your opinions matter zero to me and I pity your sad little life


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Rosies Poochons said:


> Hahahaha... sorry to have wasted your precious time typing all of the above. For the record, the answer to all of the above would be yes, plus a whole lot more. I refuse to explain myself to a jumped up keyboard warrior who's main attributes are being disrespectful and damn right rude. You have the nerve to question my ability as a 'breeder' and know nothing about me. Your opinions matter zero to me and I pity your sad little life


Awfully defensive for someone who is supposedly "doing everything right". Except that is, breeding mutts and charging $650 each for them. It just makes me sad.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Closed this


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