# Entire tom cat = big face?



## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Ok I know that's a really cryptic title but the reason for it isn't . I was in the vets last night and a woman was in the waiting room, she was asking about Fonzi (ferret) so we got talking. she had an entire tom (just over a year old) who was fighting and being a general nuisance so his owner (who had taken him as a stray to live in her shed) brought him in to be castrated.
Now Im finally getting to the point of the title , the owner was beside herself with worry and really didn't want him castrating, not because of any risk, but because he might not get a big face like a normal tom cat . Ive never heard of toms having big faces, so I thought the breeders on here who own entire toms could tell me if this is true .


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## jasminex (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, entire males develop big rounded cheeks like this Tabby Cat Club: Not Socks. I guess it's more pronounced on a moggy - my exotic shorthair is neutered and has pretty round cheeks but that's just his breed. Don't know when they develop, but I'm pretty sure the hormones have kicked in by 1 year?


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

When we got Claude our breeder told us to wait as long as possible to neuter him - preferably 7 months to let his jowls come through and give him that big BSH face.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

thedogsmother said:


> Ok I know that's a really cryptic title but the reason for it isn't . I was in the vets last night and a woman was in the waiting room, she was asking about Fonzi (ferret) so we got talking. she had an entire tom (just over a year old) who was fighting and being a general nuisance so his owner (who had taken him as a stray to live in her shed) brought him in to be castrated.
> Now Im finally getting to the point of the title , the owner was beside herself with worry and really didn't want him castrating, not because of any risk, but because he might not get a big face like a normal tom cat . Ive never heard of toms having big faces, so I thought the breeders on here who own entire toms could tell me if this is true .


I'm not a breeder but did have a semi feral living in a shed in the garden,no idea how old he was but he had been an adult a while  and he had a large face,he was neutered as soon as we could get him to the vets.
Its a hard thing to describe he had big cheeks so I would say there is most probably some truth in it,the pic doesnt show it too clearly.He does have an ear missing he had to have it removed,skin cancer


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Yep its true. Entire males develop thick necks and 'jowls'. Basically their neck and jaw muscle bulks up which gives them a larger, heavier appearance than their neutered friends. When an entire is neutered his heavier muscling disappears over time. My ex-stud who was neutered nearly two years ago, now looks as though he has been neutered all his life. My current stud has a massive neck and jowls, the difference is quite marked. However it is a stupid reason not to get your cat neutered just because you like the round 'tomcat' face


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> However it is a stupid reason not to get your cat neutered just because you like the round 'tomcat' face


Very stupid reason, face shape is very much genetic anyway.

My neutered at 10 weeks boy has a larger head and cheeks than my stud boy. Actually one of my queens is more 'jowly' than him 

Waiting until 6-8 months to neuter is also not going to make any difference to their head, jowls don't come in that early.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks for the replies everyone, he did have a very feminine face really, I thought he was a girl till she started telling me his story. She was nearly in tears when she found out he would loose his furry tea bags too. Ive only ever had males that I had neutered as soon as possible, so its something I didn't have a clue about 
I found myself doing 'the importance of neutering' talk with her , at least she knows all about straying, disease, fighting etc now


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

They don't always lose it post-neutering, Tiny was neutered late but he has been neutered for at least a year and a half now and he's still got a massive neck and shoulders and a big round tom cat face. The vet's nurse was trying to scruff him to examine him and found it difficult as he doesn't really have a scruff! On the other hand, Simba has a skinny build and a lean, triangular face. Everyone thinks he's female when they first meet him!


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

Of all the reasons NOT to neuter this has got to be the most bloody stupidest....silly lady...he can catch a disease but at least he'll have a big face...phew xx


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

I would never even entertain the idea of an entire tom, BUT there really is nothing so handsome as a entire Ginger. Smelly but so handsome.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

egyptianreggae said:


> They don't always lose it post-neutering, Tiny was neutered late but he has been neutered for at least a year and a half now and he's still got a massive neck and shoulders and a big round tom cat face. The vet's nurse was trying to scruff him to examine him and found it difficult as he doesn't really have a scruff! On the other hand, Simba has a skinny build and a lean, triangular face. Everyone thinks he's female when they first meet him!


Agree our billy his jowls are that huge you can not scruff him at all the skin is too tight/firm.

One of the male kittens I sold out of this litter the owner really was into the jowls so I allowed him extra time to to neuter him all the others are to be neutered by 6 month,so the guy whos buying him still has to neuter him but I allowed extra time.

Being an expensive breed plus un street wise the cat wouldn't be allowed to free roam anyway,iv advised him of the risks of free roaming cats.

Also I told him he could potentially get a sprayer so to watch out for that.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Yep, our Bubba has a big jowly face too. When you actually look at him though he has really little features.


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## loubyfrog (Feb 29, 2012)

When Naughty Georgie first honored us with his presence (with all his bits intact) his face huge...like he was storing a ping pong ball in each cheek


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

loubyfrog said:


> When Naughty Georgie first honored us with his presence (with all his bits intact) his face huge...like he was storing a ping pong ball in each cheek


And boy is that cat handsome, hes been helping the neighbours with their gardening this morning, hes also a very helpful boy 



danniandnala said:


> Of all the reasons NOT to neuter this has got to be the most bloody stupidest....silly lady...he can catch a disease but at least he'll have a big face...phew xx


I need a medal for some impressive tongue biting last night dontcha think


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## maisiecat (Jul 27, 2011)

When we got Bob he had only recently had the op. He wasn't in great condition anyway so his facial fur was a bit fluffed out, but he did have the look of a Tom about him.

As he settled down he became sleeker and his face slimmed down.

Shame his manners never improved though 

The first photo is just after we got him, looking smug his 'I have a home' smile.

The second one is a couple of years later, his 'I've pinched your chair' smile.


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## TatiLie (Nov 2, 2010)

That's a very strange reason to not have him neutered.
I personally love Rocco's kitten face. I'm glad I had him neutered young and he kept his lovely face.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Big head 'n stinky bum...the average human male?


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Gorgeous Merlin was neutered when he was almost 3 8just before the Foster home handed him over to me) he has a very round face but then he is BSH.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

]


thedogsmother said:


> And boy is that cat handsome, hes been helping the neighbours with their gardening this morning, hes also a very helpful boy
> 
> I need a medal for some impressive tongue biting last night dontcha think


Here you go hunny xx


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

The cryptic title made me smile! 

From working at the SAA I've found the entire toms do tend to have big jowly faces, generally.

Zebedee, the cat that comes and visits (still not got round to paper- collaring him- he doesn't come round as much anymore...) has a big round face and isn't neutered. He's a big lad:


Mouthkins by spookybabbits, on Flickr

Posing ZebCat by spookybabbits, on Flickr


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

what an attractive cat.


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## lobus (Aug 28, 2012)

Have you ever seen Tyler who is neutered and has the biggest face in the street?:001_tt2::001_tt2::001_tt2:


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Catweazle was neutered at 5 years old, and he had a real tomcat face. He did lose some of it after being casterated, as it is both bone and muscle that make the face so broad, and the muscles get a bit more 'feminine' when they no longer produce testosterone.

Romeo is only 2½ years old and was castrated about a year ago. He still has a real tomcat face, though he now seems to be losing some of his bodybuilders musculature, too.

Cats that are castrated early will keep a smaller, more feminine head, as the heavier bone structure and musculature are due to the effect of testosterone, but they will grow bigger and sleeker than toms that are castrated late (over a year old). The reason for this is that the production of testosterone inhibits the production of growth hormone, so with early castration, toms keep growing for longer, as they keep producing growth hormone for a longer period.
Entire toms are more heavily built, but shorter and stockier.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

lobus said:


> Have you ever seen Tyler who is neutered and has the biggest face in the street?:001_tt2::001_tt2::001_tt2:


Seen him, I am one of the few humans who hes honoured enough to actually allow a quick stroke of him


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Look at these jowls


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Look at these jowls
> 
> View attachment 115235


An entire tom, without a shadow of a doubt.
And a gorgeous one at that.
What a hunk!!!!!!!


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