# Ragdoll Running Riot!...



## Squiz34 (Sep 30, 2016)

Hi, I would appreciate any helpful advice that anyone can give!

Trying to keep a long story very short.. we now have 2 cats and a very naughty kitten - 1 x 4yr old male black moggy, 1 x 3yr old female tabby moggy.. and 1 x 19wk old male blue point Ragdoll. Having sadly lost our youngest male cat early in the year through unexpected illness, we thought it would be good to add to our feline family again with another male (as this worked well with the other 2 before - our female ruled the roost). I am fairly experienced with cat/kitten introductions as have had cats all my life (both moggy and pedigree) and all have successfully got on, I didn't think this time would be any different.. scent swapping, through cage/glass slow introductions, a warehouse's amount of Feliway diffusers, positive association/rewards etc.

The other cats didn't like Raggie kitten too much to start with, but tolerated him and warned him off with hisses and gentle swipes.. but Raggie kitten ignored them, and grew.. a lot! Now we are in a situation that our 19wk old kitten is nearly the same size as the others and terrorising the other 2 and I don't know what to do - Raggie has scabs all over his body and an injured eye from getting into full blown scraps with the others, always instigated by him and ended by us (we don't allow them all together unless a human is around).. he just doesn't have an off button as far as attacking the other 2 is concerned.

Raggie is a beautiful, loving boy with us - just not with the cats - and he is getting bigger and less fearless with each day. I need to nip this in the bud now before this becomes an unstoppable issue. I wanted to leave off castrating him until he was around a year old, but am now wondering if this is something I need to do sooner? Please help!


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi @Squiz34 and welcome 

First, you need to have the Raggie neutered without delay. There is no advantage to leaving him entire until he is a year old and plenty of disadvantage, given his aggression to the others. Also if you continue to leave him entire there is the risk he will soon start spraying to scent-mark his territory to intimidate the other two, and spraying once it starts can be a hard habit to break.

He is evidently a very territorial cat and neutering him may not solve all the aggression problems, although it will certainly help. It will take a few weeks before his hormone levels fall enough to make a significant difference.

It is vital to stop the fights straight away. Cats actually hate to fight and most will do anything to avoid it by posturing, yowling and puffing themselves up as each tries to face down the other.Often one cat will back down and creep slowly away without a single blow being exchanged.

Then there are cats like your Raggie who seem to want to pick a fight and get stuck in with any cat they see as a threat. They seem not to care
they get injured, sometimes quite badly, and do not learn from it. Their aim is to drive other cats off their territory and claim it for themselves. Your Raggie is trying to persuade your other two cats to move out so he can be the only cat in the home.

Your poor adult cats will be finding it hugely stressful having to keep defending themselves. There is a real danger that if this current situation continues it could cause stress-related illness in either or both of your two adult cats, such as feline cystitis, or stress-related behaviour such as house soiling or over-grooming. It is not fair for them to have to put up with such aggression. They probably got on fine together and were contented cats before the Raggie came and now their world is turned upside down, they are stressed and no doubt feeling miserable.

You may find that even once castrated your Raggie can't live peaceably with the other two. In which case to have a harmonious household your options would be either to rehome the Raggie (as an only cat) or to divide your home into two with physical barriers (e.g. screen doors) and to have one 'social group' (the two adult moggies) living in one half and the other 'social group, with only one member' (the Raggie) living in other half. This would be a permanent arrangement. It may sound a bit drastic but it is a solution that can work. You do need to have the time to divide your attention between the two social groups though.

Certainly until the Raggie has been neutered and for a few weeks after that, I would keep him separate from the other two. Then start gradual reintroductions again, under your close supervision at all times and calmly remove him to his own quarters the moment he goes to attack either of the adult cats. Then keep him separate until the next day and try again. At least that way he is not being able to bully the other two into submission.


----------



## Squiz34 (Sep 30, 2016)

Hi chillminx,

Thank you so much for your reply, everything you are saying is exactly what is happening.. and how my adult moggies must be feeling.. just awful.

The only reason I wanted to hold off neutering a young cat is because of FIP. I lost my young male tabby moggy to this horrible illness so have done quite a bit of research around it - early neutering (before 1yr) has been linked to the onset of FIP. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place! 

Rehoming Raggie isn't an option, I could never give up on any of my cats.. I brought them all here so it is up to me to fix things.

I will separate them again straight away, thank you for this advice, I was hoping things would resolve themselves but I guess not. That said, at night when we sleep we get peace. Raggie sleeps by our feet (reinforcing that he is in chsrge no doubt!) and the other 2 sleep in varying favourite places around the house.. they are not running.. he is not chasing.. all is well for a few hours.

I think I am just going to have to get over my fear of causing FIP and get him neutered.

Thanks again for your wonderful advice, it really is much appreciated!


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I have never come across any article with a specific link being made between neutering before a year old and FIP. For my own interest I would be grateful if you would be able to give me your sources.

Stress is considered to be an important factor in the chances of an individual cat who is infected with FCoV (Coronavirus) developing FIP. Examples of stress are living in a multi-cat environment such as a Rescue, or boarding cattery, being re-homed, being neutered, adapting to a new cat coming in to the home etc.

International Cat Care says " Although FIP can occur in cats of any age, it is most often seen in young cats. Around 80% of cases diagnosed are in cats less than 2 years old, and many cases are seen in kittens around 4-12 months old." To avoid the age of the cat being of significance as a stress factor one would therefore need to delay neutering until the cat was at least 2 years old, preferably over 3.

Keeping pet cats entire until after the age of 2 or 3 would make it impractical to have them as household companions. Entire cats would have to be kept indoors 24/7, the males would be likely to develop hormone-driven behaviour such as spraying, (which they might retain permanently even after neutering). Entire females would keep coming into heat and without being mated would be at risk of a serious womb infection called Pyometra.

It would also be impossible,naturally, to have multi-pet-cat households. 

International Cat Care also says "FIP is more common in cats kept in groups or colonies ....as this is an environment where FCoV infections are spread easily. A crowded environment may also contribute to stress, which can be a factor in disease development as it compromises the cat's immune response. There is evidence that genetics can also play a role in susceptibility to disease, although this is complex."

Fortunately FIP is a relatively rare disease. FCoV is ubiquitous in the domestic cat population and of all those cats who catch the virus only a very small percentage develop FIP. But it is true there is a risk for any cat and the main period of risk statistically seems to be up to the age of 3 years.

I think it is a question of balancing risks. At present you have a household with 3 stressed cats. Two adult cats who are stressed and unhappy because a young un-neutered male is aggressively attacking them and bullying them, trying to take over their territory.

Also, a young entire male who is at the mercy of his hormones. He no doubt finds his situation intensely frustrating because no matter what tactics he employs he can't persuade the two adult cats to clear off and leave the home and his valued 'human resources' for him to enjoy as a solitary cat!

Neutering can be a stressful experience for a cat, though most kittens (especially boys) seem to sail through it, barely batting an eyelid! My usual problem after my kittens have been neutered is preventing them racing around, climbing, jumping etc the same day they have had their op.! 

However I appreciate that any operation and general anaesthetic can be a a source of challenge to the immune system. But equally a cat living in an unhappy multi-cat household is going to experience a challenge to their immune system due to stress. Perhaps more so, if the source of the stress is continous and inescapable. 

I wondered if it would be worth you having a word with your Raggie's breeder and seeing what her view is about the situation, as she will know her 'lines' tendencies of character and behaviour. Hopefully she would be able to reassure you about having your kitten neutered soon.


----------



## Squiz34 (Sep 30, 2016)

Thank you again.. you know your stuff. In all honesty, I cannot remember where I got the 'don't neuter for a year' information. I have spoken to many a vet, read FIP blogs.. and read an awful lot of Dr Diane Addie's interviews and papers over the past months; for some reason I have clung on to that snippet of information!

I have spoken with my partner, and we have decided to get Raggie neutered at 6 months. I will also speak with the breeder, but had avoided doing so sooner as I felt like a failure who couldn't look after a kitten properly.. daft I know, but that's how I feel.

Raggie has been extra good today bizarrely.. I will be booking his op for a few weeks time and keeping him on lock down for the foreseeable.. before I can start reintroductions again.


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Has your ragdoll had a positive blood test for coronavirus? If he does not have the virus, it cannot mutate to FIP causing virus.


----------



## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

So sorry you lost your moggy boy. Neutering really is very safe, I and many, many other breeders have not had any issues neutering our kittens at 10-12 weeks, before they are adopted out, it's been practiced for decades. The younger they are done the better.


----------



## Squiz34 (Sep 30, 2016)

Update: 
Thanks to you all for your previous advice.
Raggie was neutered last month (he is now 8 months old) and is doing just fine with no ill effects. 
He will now share a bed with another cat (admittedly a king-size, as far away as possible from the other cat, but still progress)! He is now only aggressive to the other 2 when my partner and I are home, it's like he's territorial over us, and he guards our bedroom at night from the other cats.
So, little steps.. but things are not as bad as they were, and I'm sure Raggie still has testosterone levels to reduce over the next few weeks.. so fingers crossed.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi, thanks for the update  Very pleased to hear he has been neutered and has had no ill effects.

You are right, I am sure he is protecting his resources. (you, his special humans) . Some cats hate want to share their special humans with any other cats. 

I hope things can settle down enough for the 3 cats to live together harmoniously even if the Raggie is never pals with the other two.


----------



## Squiz34 (Sep 30, 2016)




----------



## catloveryes (Jan 15, 2017)

Cats are sometimes territorial and need a way to get away from each other. You probably already know this, but you should provide plenty of hiding places and climbing spaces for your cats. Also, getting males neutered is a good idea.


----------

