# Dog attacks police.



## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Hearing through my jungle vines that 5 police officers have been attacked by a dog in London, resulting in an armed officer ending the dogs life.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Hearing through my jungle vines that 5 police officers have been attacked by a dog in London, resulting in an armed officer ending the dogs life.


You mean the BBC news website??

BBC News - Five Met Police officers hurt in dog attack in Stratford


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

BBC News - Five Met Police officers hurt in dog attack in Stratford


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> You mean the BBC news website??
> 
> BBC News - Five Met Police officers hurt in dog attack in Stratford


No work, but just posted that link myself.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> No work, but just posted that link myself.


 Just saw that we double-posted.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

Scary! thats just down the road from me!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

not too far from me either, to be honest though i do feel there is a major problem with dogs in all these areas, being out and about there are many you see being trained to be viscous and when i take alfie on a walk there are so many aggressive dogs around the streets in what used to be a nice area!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Oh I wonder what photo the Daily Fail have used..................

Five police officers mauled by pit bull-type dog as they raid suspect's home | Mail Online

What a surprise!!!


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Oh I wonder what photo the Daily Fail have used..................
> 
> Five police officers mauled by pit bull-type dog as they raid suspect's home | Mail Online
> 
> What a surprise!!!


I would actually laugh at this type of "report", but then I remember that people actually pay for this and BELIEVE it!!! :cursing:


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> I would actually laugh at this type of "report", but then I remember that people actually pay for this and BELIEVE it!!! :cursing:


Good example of how eyewitness statements differ.

One says, big SBT who had to be pinned down by the PC's, others say small SBT who was pinned down by "Riot Police".


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Good example of how eyewitness statements differ.
> 
> One says, big SBT who had to be pinned down by the PC's, others say small SBT who was pinned down by "Riot Police".


BBC still says pit-bull type dog. Let's hope the people on the Staffie Walk don't get harassed by passers-by about their "dangerous" dogs.


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## Mici (Nov 13, 2011)

Ok, maybe it is just me but...aren't policemen trained in those situations? I mean it was just one dog - how on earth would they be able to defend themselves from criminals (people) if they can't handle one, admitedly vicious dog?!

And to kill it only after a 4 shot when the dog was restrained...I am spechless...

This is not a general public being attacked but trained police officers. I just can't believe they were so helpless...

Not saying that it was right for a vicious dog to be let to attack people...


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Oh I wonder what photo the Daily Fail have used..................
> 
> Five police officers mauled by pit bull-type dog as they raid suspect's home | Mail Online
> 
> What a surprise!!!


I looked at that photo and the first thing I thought was why use a picture of a sneezing dog?

To me thats honestly what it looks like 

Then I saw the second pic ...oh yeah that one....


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Mici said:


> Ok, maybe it is just me but...aren't policemen trained in those situations? I mean it was just one dog - how on earth would they be able to defend themselves from criminals (people) if they can't handle one, admitedly vicious dog?!
> 
> And to kill it only after a 4 shot when the dog was restrained...I am spechless...
> 
> ...


I can easily see that happening.
Many people are sh1t scared of dogs (for want of a better word ) and a big, muscly dog charging towards with clear intent to harm you would probably get the better of most people.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Mici said:


> Ok, maybe it is just me but...aren't policemen trained in those situations? I mean it was just one dog - how on earth would they be able to defend themselves from criminals (people) if they can't handle one, admitedly vicious dog?!
> 
> And to kill it only after a 4 shot when the dog was restrained...I am spechless...
> 
> ...


Not all police officers are trained in how to deal with dogs. Each force differ they usually use the dog section or have a dedicated Dangerous Dogs Unit.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2012)

as said above this is a pic of a sneezing dog , you`d think they`d do their research proporly , how can anyone take what that paper has to say seriously after choosing to display a pic of a dog about to have a good sneeze


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

DoggieBag said:


> Oh I wonder what photo the Daily Fail have used..................
> 
> Five police officers mauled by pit bull-type dog as they raid suspect's home | Mail Online
> 
> What a surprise!!!


It's easy to see why people are getting scared of certain types of dog, if all they see are pictures like that. 
It's very rare that we get to see any other side to these dogs in the media, it's as if they want us to be afraid of them. They are the latest threat to civilisation and we should be in fear for our lives. Lets face it, I feel pretty sure that anyone seeing a snarling pitbull type, baring it's teeth and slavering, like the dogs in those pictures would cross the road very quickly.
But how often are dogs like that ever seen in the real world. I've never seen one and I've seen plenty of dogs over the years. What we need is some balance in the mainstream media about dogs. There are programmes on Sky like 'Pitbulls and parolees' that show how gentle and playful these dogs can be.But there's nothing that I can think of that's been shown on the main channels or in the papers that shows a good side to these dogs.
What's a bit worrying is that it's going to escalate from a few 'devil dog' breeds, into all dogs being demonised.
Please don't laugh and think it can never happen, here, in a free country like the UK, where we are a race of animal lovers. It's already started, the thing is,where is it going to stop.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

One of the comments posted says something like "All dog ownership should be banned. Why are they allowed to be keep in populated areas?"


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Interestingly, some German states are abolishing BSL.

Dog owners face written and practical tests - The Local

I am not 100% certain, the way they are going about it is the exact right way, but an interesting step, nonetheless.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

A video of the attack is online - Dog Attacks Police Officers In Newham East London - Five Officers Mauled | UK News | Sky News

Be warned it is graphic, but contains no sound.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> Interestingly, some German states are abolishing BSL.
> 
> Dog owners face written and practical tests - The Local
> 
> I am not 100% certain, the way they are going about it is the exact right way, but an interesting step, nonetheless.


So when it comes into force in 2013, anyone who has had a dog less than 10 years will have to take this test? Have I read that right?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

jetsmum said:


> It's easy to see why people are getting scared of certain types of dog, if all they see are pictures like that.
> It's very rare that we get to see any other side to these dogs in the media, it's as if they want us to be afraid of them. They are the latest threat to civilisation and we should be in fear for our lives. Lets face it, I feel pretty sure that anyone seeing a snarling pitbull type, baring it's teeth and slavering, like the dogs in those pictures would cross the road very quickly.
> But how often are dogs like that ever seen in the real world. I've never seen one and I've seen plenty of dogs over the years. What we need is some balance in the mainstream media about dogs. There are programmes on Sky like 'Pitbulls and parolees' that show how gentle and playful these dogs can be.But there's nothing that I can think of that's been shown on the main channels or in the papers that shows a good side to these dogs.
> What's a bit worrying is that it's going to escalate from a few 'devil dog' breeds, into all dogs being demonised.
> Please don't laugh and think it can never happen, here, in a free country like the UK, where we are a race of animal lovers. It's already started, the thing is,where is it going to stop.


i'll say this, you do not live in this area as being nearly attacked is becoming an almost daily occurance, we have even had to rearrange when alfie walks as at one particular time every night there was a dog trying to get to him, teeth bared and the owner couldnt barely keep him away and just screaming leave, every night so we changed when and where we walk.

we have this all the time and this used to be quite a nice area too!


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> So when it comes into force in 2013, anyone who has had a dog less than 10 years will have to take this test? Have I read that right?


No, they are saying anyone who has had a dog for at least 2 years since 2003 will be considered a knowledgeable dog owner and will not have to take the test. They are reasoning that if you haven't been reported to the authorities in 2 years, you must be responsible.This is my big bug bear with this piece of legislation, even though I think, generally, this is a step in the right direction.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> i'll say this, you do not live in this area as being nearly attacked is becoming an almost daily occurance, we have even had to rearrange when alfie walks as at one particular time every night there was a dog trying to get to him, teeth bared and the owner couldnt barely keep him away and just screaming leave, every night so we changed when and where we walk.
> 
> we have this all the time and this used to be quite a nice area too!


I have to agree with you on this to a certain extent. It has become a minefield in my area walking a dog. its is meant to be a pleasurable experience but around here it is not! Whereabouts are you Emmaviolet?


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

terencesmum said:


> No, they are saying anyone who has had a dog for at least 2 years since 2003 will be considered a knowledgeable dog owner and will not have to take the test. They are reasoning that if you haven't been reported to the authorities in 2 years, you must be responsible.This is my big bug bear with this piece of legislation, even though I think, generally, this is a step in the right direction.


Oh yeah, I should read things slowly.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

It sounds a good idea to me, except for the cost, not sure why it would cost quite that much though. And I would hardly have thought a vet was the one to assess a dog's temperament as most dogs hate vets.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Blitz said:


> It sounds a good idea to me, except for the cost, not sure why it would cost quite that much though. And I would hardly have thought a vet was the one to assess a dog's temperament as most dogs hate vets.


Yeah, I agree. I read a document (in german) about this as well and in this document, it was mentioned that other people might qualify for this assessment bit, like rescue organisations and trainers which sounds slightly more plausible.


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

This does seem like a legitimate story.. and people were hurt.. but.. BBC posts article about dog attack in Albert Square in East End. The distinction between what's real and what isn't is becoming a bit of a blur to me. I assume the injured people were taken to Holby City ?


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> i'll say this, you do not live in this area as being nearly attacked is becoming an almost daily occurance, we have even had to rearrange when alfie walks as at one particular time every night there was a dog trying to get to him, teeth bared and the owner couldnt barely keep him away and just screaming leave, every night so we changed when and where we walk.
> 
> we have this all the time and this used to be quite a nice area too!


But surely that's the fault of the owner and not the dog. If someone can't control a dog, then surely they shouldn't own that dog. I've heard about status dogs and dogs as weapons, but again, that's not the fault of the dog.
I wish there was a way to stop this kind of misuse of dogs. Anytime anything bad happens, it's always the dogs fault, you never hear in the media that it was the owners fault for not being able to control their animal, or even coz they trained it to be vicious.
I'm sorry you can't enjoy walking your dog in peace. Yes I am lucky, where I live there are very few scary dogs. But awhile ago, Jet was attacked while 
playing in the field with some other dogs. The attaker was a staffie.But it wasn't the fault of the dog, it's owner was being stupid and trying to get it to share its ball, and it didn't want to, but no one else knew that. Not until she told us afterwards. 
The point I'm trying to make is that there are so many people out there with dogs they can't control, but that is not the dogs fault. 
Sorry if this seems a bit of a rant, but it's something I feel really strongly about.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

yes i agree that it is the owners but something needs to be done about it and also even if it is the owners the dogs are the ones doing the damage!

it really is awful, a few years back it was only us and a few others who had dogs now everyone has them and most often they are snarling and lunging for alfie and to be honest im pretty scared now, i dont mind for myself ive never been scared of dogs but its for him i am!

the other week i had a huge dog going for him and i was so worried because i really wouldnt have been able to hold the dog back.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I wonder how many dogs would react in this way (ok this dogs reaction was OTT) if 4 policemen turned up un announced at their door? - I mean I wonder if they rang the bell and waited- doesnt seem likely to me- they probably battered the door down. I am not saying it is acceptable on any level but the circumstances have not really been revealed.


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## delforty3 (Feb 17, 2008)

When I first heard about the attack, my first thought was how *one* dog was able to seriously injure so many police officers. When you watch the video, it only shows two officers, one being attacked and the other one either on top a wall not getting involved or walking across the road like nothing's happening leaving his colleague and some bloke behind a fence to repeatedly whack the dog with a stick.

The police office then decides to come back across the road and jump up on another wall 10ft away and still not help, I'm sorry, but why on earth is he not straight in there helping his colleague who is getting mauled. There would then have been at least 3 men trying to gain control of the dog. By the looks of things individual officers where trying to restrain the dog, which they had no chance when a dog was in that state, thus resulting in so many injuries.

These are supposed to be police officers who are there to protect, would that same officer react in the same way if it was a member of the public, or worst case scenario a child being attacked, or is it just ok that it was his colleague. In my opinion the reaction should have been the same and he should have tried to help sooner.

Yet again another negative dog story, that the initial headline 'Five police officers mauled by crazed dog as they raid suspect's home - and it took four shots to finally kill it' will stick on people heads, without them ever knowing the full facts behind the situation.


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## sashski (Aug 14, 2011)

leannelatty said:


> Scary! thats just down the road from me!


I drove past this yesterday and wondered what was happening.

That Video, not very clear but but if the officer had stood still and not thrashed about as much, his injuries would have been less and the dog would have been less agitated/spurred on to continue.

I do deliveries all over East London, and the amount of dogs I see off leads is astonishing, especially walking along busy main roads.
Leads should be compulsory IMO.


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## Tallyho (Feb 18, 2012)

I feel for the officers as they must of been scared s h i t less and i do agree with the dog being shot there could of been kids out playing , and somone said about the dog being scared but that wernt scared , it wanted to attack ,and only one place for dogs like that !


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

There had been complaints about the dog before hand and it seems a
Neighbour was relieved that it had happened. I don't think anyone should receive such injuries from a dog. Imagine if it had of been a child on the receiving end?


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Tallyho said:


> I feel for the officers as they must of been scared s h i t less and i do agree with the dog being shot there could of been kids out playing , and somone said about the dog being scared but that wernt scared , it wanted to attack ,and only one place for dogs like that !


It wanted to attack- what garbage. I do not condone the actions of this dog- its response was OTT, but as it was not living in the best of conditions "the guy rarely took it out" I imagine this contributed. Like i said Many dogs would react in an aggressive/guarding manner if 4 cops turned up and battered down the door to their home.

There is no excuse for an inhumane death IMO- just hope the shot was good and true, which as it took four shots obviously wasnt.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

i cant believe some posts on here , a dog that injures 5 people that had the legal right to be there deserves no place in society. also , look at it from a another point of view , someone or one of them had to act within the interests of public safety. the right thing was done imo.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Police aren't trained in how to deal with dogs - its actually quite a long wait to get additional training once you have your basic training. I would like to think though if my husband was in that situation he would help his colleague.

I admit a dog would likely react defensively if 4 people knocked the door down (mine possibly could) but if they were looking for a kidnapping suspect, they arent going to ring the doorbell!

i do think that a dog that can react that aggressively and do that much damage does not have a place in society. its a shame it took 4 shots, but i dont think it could have been rehabilitated.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

I know theres already been one video posted on here but this one seems to have more of the attack on it. I havent watched it all the way to the end bcos i dont want to see the dog get shot and im not ssure its even on here. There is sound on it and is is disturbing (the bits i watched anyway)

Video: Police mauled in vicious dog attack shoot animal dead - Telegraph


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

completely agree with the above, there is no way that this dog has any place in society and it has been complained about and attacked before.

a reaction like that is not right no matter if people were in his house.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

I watched the video with sound and it was quite disturbing. 

I'm wondering how the dog got out onto the street in the first place. Also, considering there was five (that we know if) police officers at the scene, surely there was a tazer gun or CS gas between them that could have been used to shock the dog to get the officer out of the dogs firing line.

Hopefully more details will be revealed.

Also, for people who think it's wrong to share sympathy with the dog ...

We obviously are horrified for the officers hurt but remember, this attack was probably the result of bad or aggressive training from the owner so when people are sympathising with the destroyed dog, we are not in ANY way saying that on ANY level the dog was right in the attack, we are saying that it's most probably the result of a bad owner.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

No one has said it is right in any sense of the word- all i was saying was that it was not a totally unprovoked attack- with a dog casually walking down the road- going for 4 cops minding their own business- what the dog did was wrong, and yes IMO should have been PTS BUT NO animal deserves to be shot 4 times IMO (unless an immediate threat to itself or others) no matter what it has done- they say it was restrained then shot.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Not quite the 4 gunshots that eyewitnesses reported.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

WarDoll said:


> I watched the video with sound and it was quite disturbing.
> 
> I'm wondering how the dog got out onto the street in the first place. Also, considering there was five (that we know if) police officers at the scene, surely there was a tazer gun or CS gas between them that could have been used to shock the dog to get the officer out of the dogs firing line.
> 
> ...


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

WarDoll said:


> I watched the video with sound and it was quite disturbing.
> 
> I'm wondering how the dog got out onto the street in the first place. Also, considering there was five (that we know if) police officers at the scene, surely there was a tazer gun or CS gas between them that could have been used to shock the dog to get the officer out of the dogs firing line.
> 
> ...


Very few police have tasers (I personally think they should all have them)
and i dont know how CS would work on a dog but its very likely at that proximity they could have had back spray and caught themselves with it.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

CS would not get the desired results on a dog, they do not have the same tear glands etc as a human.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

WarDoll said:


> *I watched the video with sound and it was quite disturbing. *
> I'm wondering how the dog got out onto the street in the first place. Also, considering there was five (that we know if) police officers at the scene, surely there was a tazer gun or CS gas between them that could have been used to shock the dog to get the officer out of the dogs firing line.
> 
> Hopefully more details will be revealed.
> ...


Does the video show the dog being shot? I couldnt bring myself to watch all of the film in case it did. I agree that sympathy should be shown to the dog as well as the policemen. The dog did not choose to go to this particular owner or be brought up to be the way that it was. Most dogs dont choose to be aggressive, it is either a result of training or having a traumatic experience which if in a human would be sympathised with but if it is a dog then they are somehow to blame! I am not saying for 1 second that the actions of the dog should have been disregarded but given that the dog was restrained was there any need to shoot it? Not very humane !!!!


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

WarDoll said:


> I watched the video with sound and it was quite disturbing.
> 
> I'm wondering how the dog got out onto the street in the first place. Also, considering there was five (that we know if) police officers at the scene, surely there was a tazer gun or CS gas between them that could have been used to shock the dog to get the officer out of the dogs firing line.
> 
> ...





Lexiedhb said:


> No one has said it is right in any sense of the word- all i was saying was that it was not a totally unprovoked attack- with a dog casually walking down the road- going for 4 cops minding their own business- what the dog did was wrong, and yes IMO should have been PTS BUT NO animal deserves to be shot 4 times IMO (unless an immediate threat to itself or others) no matter what it has done- they say it was restrained then shot.


the owner was known to the police and there are reports surfacing that this dog HAD attacked before! so what were the police supposed to do ?
they`d have been damned if they didn`t and are being damned because they did , either way it was a no win for them.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Lexiedhb said:


> It wanted to attack- what garbage. I do not condone the actions of this dog- its response was OTT, but as it was not living in the best of conditions "the guy rarely took it out" I imagine this contributed. Like i said Many dogs would react in an aggressive/guarding manner if 4 cops turned up and battered down the door to their home.
> 
> There is no excuse for an inhumane death IMO- just hope the shot was good and true, which as it took four shots obviously wasnt.


I would imagine the panic that was ensuing and the agony of the officer who was being attacked was detrimental to the person who fired the gun. I would like to see anyone fire a clean shot in a situation like that. I'm surprised the householder who was there didn't grab a knife.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

diablo said:


> the owner was known to the police and there are reports surfacing that this dog HAD attacked before! so what were the police supposed to do ?
> they`d have been damned if they didn`t and are being damned because they did , either way it was a no win for them.


But surely if the police had taken more notice of the previous reports and removed the dog before then this situation wouldnt have arisen? Its about time the police started taking more notice of the attacks on other people. They dont seem to care that much but when the roles are reversed and it happens to them they shoot the dog. All that this says to me is that this situation could have been prevented had the police done their jobs correctly beforehand!


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> *Does the video show the dog being shot*? I couldnt bring myself to watch all of the film in case it did. I agree that sympathy should be shown to the dog as well as the policemen. The dog did not choose to go to this particular owner or be brought up to be the way that it was. Most dogs dont choose to be aggressive, it is either a result of training or having a traumatic experience which if in a human would be sympathised with but if it is a dog then they are somehow to blame! I am not saying for 1 second that the actions of the dog should have been disregarded but given that the dog was restrained was there any need to shoot it? Not very humane !!!!


The video ends with the dog being shot 3 times.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

leannelatty said:


> But surely if the police had taken more notice of the previous reports and removed the dog before then this situation wouldnt have arisen? Its about time the police started taking more notice of the attacks on other people. They dont seem to care that much but when the roles are reversed and it happens to them they shoot the dog. All that this says to me is that this situation could have been prevented had the police done their jobs correctly beforehand!


they might not have known though had they ? the reports may only have surfaced AFTER they attended.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

DoggieBag said:


> The video ends with the dog being shot 3 times.


Thank you for warning me. I am glad i didnt watch it to the end.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

leannelatty said:


> But surely if the police had taken more notice of the previous reports and removed the dog before then this situation wouldnt have arisen? Its about time the police started taking more notice of the attacks on other people. They dont seem to care that much but when the roles are reversed and it happens to them they shoot the dog. *All that this says to me is that this situation could have been prevented had the police done their jobs correctly beforehand!*


I wondered how long it would be before it was the police's fault for not doing their job properly!

I am sorry but as far as I am concerned the fault lies squarely with the owner.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

DoggieBag said:


> Five police officers mauled by pit bull-type dog as they raid suspect's home | Mail Online


That video is horrifying, but at the same time, so sad.

That poor dog. I'm lost for words regarding the moronic owners of such a dog.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

shamykebab said:


> That video is horrifying, but at the same time, so sad.
> 
> That poor dog. I'm lost for words regarding the moronic owners of such a dog.


i don`t have any sympathy for the dog , i`m sorry. i have sympathy for that poor police officer SCREAMING in agony as the dog is viciously attacking him.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

Perhaps because of the bad quality of the video, or perhaps because of the distance at which it was shot, but did it not seem a little sedate to you guys? I.e. did the dog not seem to be a little bit relaxed, or dare I say it, like he was playing?! 

I don't know. After seeing dogs attack other dogs and people, this dog's behaviour looked a little weird to me on gut instinct alone. Obviously, it is very likely that the dog had been taught to grab and hold hard, and this incident was more of an operant 'attack' (voluntary, 'trained' even). It did not look like a case of respondent, reflexive aggression where the dog was triggered into an attack. 

Not that it makes a huge deal of difference, really. Just an observation.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

diablo said:


> i don`t have any sympathy for the dog , i`m sorry. i have sympathy for that poor police officer SCREAMING in agony as the dog is viciously attacking him.


Yes, that's what is sad about the whole situation. If the dog had been better managed throughout its life, with better owners, don't you think it would have had an increased chance of being more well-adjusted than it turned out to be?


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

diablo said:


> the owner was known to the police and there are reports surfacing that this dog HAD attacked before! so what were the police supposed to do ?
> they`d have been damned if they didn`t and are being damned because they did , either way it was a no win for them.


So send in the sodding dog unit as back up- if they knew there was a dangerous dog on the premises why risk themselves?



Lavenderb said:


> I would imagine the panic that was ensuing and the agony of the officer who was being attacked was detrimental to the person who fired the gun. I would like to see anyone fire a clean shot in a situation like that. I'm surprised the householder who was there didn't grab a knife.


ANYONE who carries a gun SHOULD be able to take a clear shot in pretty much ANY situation or they seriously should not be armed, especially those TRAINED for it in a professional capacity- period- the dog was restrained, why the need to then shoot it 4 times...........



diablo said:


> i don`t have any sympathy for the dog , i`m sorry. i have sympathy for that poor police officer SCREAMING in agony as the dog is viciously attacking him.


The only sympathy for the dog i have is A) it had a shite owner and b) it was not PTS humanely, agreeing it needed to be PTS- Of course my sympathy goes to the officers.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

diablo said:


> i don`t have any sympathy for the dog , i`m sorry. i have sympathy for that poor police officer SCREAMING in agony as the dog is viciously attacking him.


i really agree.

to me this is not a dog, not in the sense of what i was brought up with or the ideas of a dog i was brought up with.

this dog is acting as a wild animal and therefore cannot have a safe place in society, not with animals and children and people. if a dog attacks that severely that quickly then something is wrong and we are witnessing it on an almost daily instance.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> i really agree.
> 
> to me this is not a dog, not in the sense of what i was brought up with or the ideas of a dog i was brought up with.
> 
> this dog is acting as a wild animal and therefore cannot have a safe place in society, not with animals and children and people. if a dog attacks that severely that quickly then something is wrong and we are witnessing it on an almost daily instance.


This dog may well have been trained to do this, so therefore it is once again the fault of the owner. Very similar bite and hold (just without anyone to tell it to release) to the Schutzhund vids i was watching yesterday- which is a legal sport in this country.

AGAIN I am not saying what this dog did is acceptable on ANY level.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> i really agree.
> 
> to me this is not a dog, not in the sense of what i was brought up with or the ideas of a dog i was brought up with.
> 
> this dog is acting as a wild animal and therefore cannot have a safe place in society, not with animals and children and people. if a dog attacks that severely that quickly then something is wrong and we are witnessing it on an almost daily instance.


How is that the dog's fault? A dog's behaviour is in part due to nature, but an overwhelming factor is also thanks to nurture.

How many of our own dogs would behave like this if not nurtured correctly? They are all animals at the end of the day, but it is up to us to ensure they are accepted members of today's society.

The dog is not to blame, IMO. The owner is responsible for the injuries to the officers and the destrcution of the dog.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> i really agree.
> 
> to me this is not a dog, not in the sense of what i was brought up with or the ideas of a dog i was brought up with.
> 
> this dog is acting as a wild animal and therefore cannot have a safe place in society, not with animals and children and people. if a dog attacks that severely that quickly then something is wrong and we are witnessing it on an almost daily instance.


Popcorn anyone? 

1) Any dog can attack
2) How do you know the specifics of this attack. Please, don't take the media's account of it. I would be surprised if the injuries were really as bad as they have claimed. They may be, but let's not take the Daily Fail's account. 
3) Dogs are domesticated, not wild. A wild animal would most likely run away from danger, much more so than dogs who have a much reduced flight distance. 
4) How do you know the dog attacked quickly? How do you know there was not a prolonged period of intimidation and ignorance for the dog's welfare previously?

These are just some questions to keep in mind.

I agree, however, that this dog should be PTS based on past bite history etc. (if that's true, that is), but for different reasons.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> This dog may well have been trained to do this, so therefore it is once again the fault of the owner. Very similar bite and hold (just without anyone to tell it to release) to the Schutzhund vids i was watching yesterday- which is a legal sport in this country.
> 
> AGAIN I am not saying what this dog did is acceptable on ANY level.


i`m presuming the owner was present , being as someone was stood behind the wall was attempting to beat the dog off , if someone trains there dog to attack in such a way they would have had no problem whatsoever removing the dog from that situation , it didn`t happen. it was a prolonged attack presuming of course the owner was present he did nothing to ensure the safety of those officers or members of the public apart from beating his dog with what looks like a big stick , that person had no control over his dog what so ever. dogs that compete in schutzhund are trained and conditioned to release , that didn`t happen here. so , rightly so , the dog was shot.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

shamykebab said:


> How is that the dog's fault? A dog's behaviour is in part due to nature, but an overwhelming factor is also thanks to nurture.
> 
> How many of our own dogs would behave like this if not nurtured correctly? They are all animals at the end of the day, but it is up to us to ensure they are accepted members of today's society.
> 
> The dog is not to blame, IMO. The owner is responsible for the injuries to the officers and the destrcution of the dog.





Rottiefan said:


> Popcorn anyone?
> 
> 1) Any dog can attack
> 2) How do you know the specifics of this attack. Please, don't take the media's account of it. I would be surprised if the injuries were really as bad as they have claimed. They may be, but let's not take the Daily Fail's account.
> ...


oh please! stop defending the actions of a vicious dog dangerously out of control in a PUBLIC place , i`m sure if it was one of your children it had hold of you`d be screaming for them to pull the trigger


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I wondered how long it would be before it was the police's fault for not doing their job properly!
> 
> I am sorry but as far as I am concerned the fault lies squarely with the owner.


And i do agree that the reason that the dog behaved the way that it did was solely down to the scumbag that owned the dog! But......why were reports of this dog attacking others ignored by the police previously? If they hadnt been then this incident may have been avoided and the poor policeman that was injured during this incident not! I think it is time that the police did more to step up and follow up on reports of dangerous dogs but i also think that owners of these dogs need to be monitored and be advised to take control of the dogs ie train them not to be aggressive and if not then they should be removed. although if that happened how many more dogs would be sadly pts or end up in rescues? Its a lose lose situation and who pays for it? The dogs that are mistreated and the responsible owners of these types of dogs who are wrongly sterotyped.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

diablo said:


> oh please! stop defending the actions of a vicious dog dangerously out of control in a PUBLIC place , i`m sure if it was one of your children it had hold of you`d be screaming for them to pull the trigger


the voice of reason, even as a dog lover you cannot justify these actions!


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

diablo said:


> i`m presuming the owner was present , being as someone was stood behind the wall was attempting to beat the dog off , if someone trains there dog to attack in such a way they would have had no problem whatsoever removing the dog from that situation , it didn`t happen. it was a prolonged attack presuming of course the owner was present he did nothing to ensure the safety of those officers or members of the public apart from beating his dog with what looks like a big stick , that person had no control over his dog what so ever. dogs that compete in schutzhund are trained and conditioned to release , that didn`t happen here. so , rightly so , the dog was shot.


HUGE assumption- I do not think for 1 sec that was the dogs owner- as i imagine other officers had secured the person they went in to arrest and not left him un attended in his front garden.....



diablo said:


> oh please! stop defending the actions of a vicious dog dangerously out of control in a PUBLIC place , i`m sure if it was one of your children it had hold of you`d be screaming for them to pull the trigger


Why is it whenever there is a dog bite story someone has to bring kids into it?


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> HUGE assumption- I do not think for 1 sec that was the dogs owner- as i imagine other officers had secured the person they went in to arrest and not left him un attended in his front garden.....


i think you`ll find it most probably was.



> Why is it whenever there is a dog bite story someone has to bring kids into it?


why not , could have SO easily of been a child , dog was in a public place


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

diablo said:


> oh please! stop defending the actions of a vicious dog dangerously out of control in a PUBLIC place , i`m sure if it was one of your children it had hold of you`d be screaming for them to pull the trigger


Oh please! Stop being so naive and trusting every word of a moronic newspaper. Yes the attack was what it was, yes people were hurt, yes the dog should be PTS...

BUT...please understand why dogs attack, please understand what might have caused this dog to attack, please understand and have the sheer decency, common sense, maturity etc., to see the other side of the coin.

I have seen much much worse, handled much much more sensibly...:001_rolleyes:


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> No one has said it is right in any sense of the word- all i was saying was that it was not a totally unprovoked attack- with a dog casually walking down the road- going for 4 cops minding their own business- what the dog did was wrong, and yes IMO should have been PTS BUT NO animal deserves to be shot 4 times IMO (unless an immediate threat to itself or others) no matter what it has done- they say it was restrained then shot.





leannelatty said:


> But surely if the police had taken more notice of the previous reports and removed the dog before then this situation wouldnt have arisen? Its about time the police started taking more notice of the attacks on other people. They dont seem to care that much but when the roles are reversed and it happens to them they shoot the dog. All that this says to me is that this situation could have been prevented had the police done their jobs correctly beforehand!


Rather speechless - imagine it was your neighbour, 5 officers to arrest for kidnap so he's going to be a model citizen isn't he. He most likely had the dog for such eventualities and trained it to attack. Where does it say previous attacks have been reported - sure you are very brave and would indeed have reported this type of person without fear of repraisal.

What should they have done, slipped a lead on the dog and took it for a walk to calm down. Hopefully you will never be in a position of needing help from the police as you obviously have such a low opinion of them


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

leannelatty said:


> And i do agree that the reason that the dog behaved the way that it did was solely down to the scumbag that owned the dog! But......why were reports of this dog attacking others ignored by the police previously? If they hadnt been then this incident may have been avoided and the poor policeman that was injured during this incident not! I think it is time that the police did more to step up and follow up on reports of dangerous dogs but i also think that owners of these dogs need to be monitored and be advised to take control of the dogs ie train them not to be aggressive and if not then they should be removed. although if that happened how many more dogs would be sadly pts or end up in rescues? Its a lose lose situation and who pays for it? The dogs that are mistreated and the responsible owners of these types of dogs who are wrongly sterotyped.


How do you know that the police issuing the warrant to get the guy came from the same force that the reports were reported to? We dont (unfortunately) and police forces dont always talk to each other.

If my dog were in this situation, she could well snap, we dont know, but should would not hold and sustain a bite. Its one thing being scared and snapping, another thing completely to continue a sustained attack and with the rescue situation as it is right now, as sad as this is, i think that time is often better spent on dogs who dont react like this.

In an ideal world, this wouldnt happen but also police would be trained in dog body language and how to interpret the dog, and also how to stop an attack.

Lets be honest - how many of us would know how to stop this dog and do it humanely??


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

diablo said:


> i think you`ll find it most probably was.
> 
> why not , could have SO easily of been a child , dog was in a public place


Seriously you think that the cops just let this tit who they sent 4 officers to arrest walk out of his house and into his garden- you dont know what house the blinking dog came out of

Because it is all What if's.... what if the dog had had a decent owner, what if it had been brought up in a well rounded environment, what if the officers had the intel before going in that the dog was aggro, what if they had gone in the back instead of the front. Its daft.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Rottiefan said:


> Oh please! Stop being so naive and trusting every word of a moronic newspaper. Yes the attack was what it was, yes people were hurt, yes the dog should be PTS...
> 
> BUT...please understand why dogs attack, please understand what might have caused this dog to attack, please understand and have the sheer decency, common sense, maturity etc., to see the other side of the coin.
> 
> I have seen much much worse, handled much much more sensibly...:001_rolleyes:


i don`t rely on a newspaper , i`ve watched the footage , all two minutes and more of it.
theres ABSOLUTELY no reason why a dog should attack on that level , as i said the police are being damned because they did , and would have been damned because they didn`t , no win situation for them. that dog could have gone on to attack anyone on that road , so why are you defending it?:001_rolleyes: the police were not left with an awful lot of choice and there are now three officers in hospital recieving treatment for a dog that mauled them , wheres the sympathy for those poor officers who had every right to be there? you`re letting the way they handled the situation cloud your judgement on what was a horrible situation for everyone involved and potentially at risk.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Rather speechless - imagine it was your neighbour, 5 officers to arrest for kidnap so he's going to be a model citizen isn't he. He most likely had the dog for such eventualities and trained it to attack. Where does it say previous attacks have been reported - sure you are very brave and would indeed have reported this type of person without fear of repraisal.
> 
> What should they have done, slipped a lead on the dog and took it for a walk to calm down. Hopefully you will never be in a position of needing help from the police as you obviously have such a low opinion of them


It clearly says in one of the reports that the dog had been reported for biting prior to this event.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> Seriously you think that the cops just let this tit who they sent 4 officers to arrest walk out of his house and into his garden- you dont know what house the blinking dog came out of
> 
> Because it is all What if's.... what if the dog had had a decent owner, what if it had been brought up in a well rounded environment, what if the officers had the intel before going in that the dog was aggro, what if they had gone in the back instead of the front. Its daft.


i`m sorry but i`ll say it again , i have no sympathy for the dog , a dog which carried out a sustained attack on five people just doing their job. NO dog should NOT ever come before human life.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

diablo said:


> i`m sorry but i`ll say it again , i have no sympathy for the dog , a dog which carried out a sustained attack on five people just doing their job. NO dog should NOT ever come before human life.


I do not disagree, i have said repeatedly this is not acceptable- and the dog should have been PTS. I do believe it could have been avoided (maybe)-just look at the bigger picture- which jumping to assumptions based on very limited reports/footage really does not do


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

It is THOUGHT the dog had previous. This is due to an attack on a cyclist about 12 months ago outside that property. There was no evidence to show whether that attack was carried out by the same dog.


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Rather speechless - imagine it was your neighbour, 5 officers to arrest for kidnap so he's going to be a model citizen isn't he. He most likely had the dog for such eventualities and trained it to attack. Where does it say previous attacks have been reported - sure you are very brave and would indeed have reported this type of person without fear of repraisal.
> 
> What should they have done, slipped a lead on the dog and took it for a walk to calm down. Hopefully you will never be in a position of needing help from the police as you obviously have such a low opinion of them


I have been in the position of needing the police after being attacked myself by a dangerous dog in November. And unfortunatly the police were next to useless. It was only by me contacting them time and time again and actually putting in a complaint with an Inspector that anything was actually done! When its their a**e on the line they finally pulled their finger out and did something but it was far too little far too late so you will have to excuse the little to no faith i have in the police force!!! I agree the man was obviously not a model citizen otherwise the police wouldnt have had any need to have been there in the 1st place. But i did report this person but not without fear of reprisal at all! theres not a day goes by where i dont worry about little noises outside and wonder if he has come to get me! but i deal with that. not saying that people that dont report it are cowards NOT AT ALL, everyone does what they think is right but i would have felt worse if this had happened again and someone else had been attacked and lost their precious dog or even worse and i had stood by and done nothing but that is just me! I think what happened was reaction and purely based on instinct and at the time they did the best they could and what they thought was right in the heat of the moment. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

ps this article says previous attacks Man charged under Dangerous Dogs Act after five police officers mauled | UK news | The Guardian

and this one Dog that mauled police 'had attacked before' | UK news | The Guardian

And quite a few more. Not all news is true i get it but surely you can see that this dog had the potential to have attacked before?


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

IF you watch the video please tell me where the 5 Police Officers are? 

All i can see is:
1) member of the public hitting the dog with a stick,
2) a policeman who the dog is attacking
3) another policeman who is on top of a wall one minute, then runs across the street and then goes and jumps on top of another wall???

Surely if my colleague/friend was being attacked id jump in. The dog can only bite one person at a time so get it from behind or something? Policeman that was being attacked could have got behind one of the walls. 

NOT ONE officer tried to help. They all have metal batons and pepper spray (i believe) for goodness sakes??

Sorry but the video makes it look as though an aggressive dog is being aggravated even more by people jumping and running around him and also by getting whacked by a stick.

Fair enough such dog needs to be pts BUT Officers need to help each other out when one of them is being attacked!


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

Maybe the police were a bit at fault in not following up on previous reports about the dog. But surely the main fault lies with the owner for not training his dog properly. 
Most dogs will bark if someone comes knocking on the door, but the vast majority will not attack. I've not watched the video, as I'd find it too upsetting. I feel so sorry for the police who got hurt and unfortunately there seems to have been no option but to shoot the dog under circumstances.
But I don't think the blame lies with the dog, it lies firmly on the owner who hadn't trained his dog properly.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> I do not disagree, i have said repeatedly this is not acceptable- and the dog should have been PTS. I do believe it could have been avoided (maybe)-just look at the bigger picture- which jumping to assumptions based on very limited reports/footage really does not do


how on earth were they supposed to contain a dog attacking on that sort of level and then PTS? werent really possible was it? to many lives and people at risk for them to have spent hanging around for that to happen , they made the right decision for ALL concerned.


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## shamykebab (Jul 15, 2009)

diablo said:


> theres ABSOLUTELY no reason why a dog should attack on that level


Clearly you don't understand dogs then. Dogs don't have to have a "reason" to attack - so much of a dog's behaviour is down to socialisation, training etc. Go to countries where dogs such as this are actively encouraged and then utilised as guard dogs. Those dogs will attack without provocation because that was the nature of their upbringing, same as this dog.

There is no way I'm condoning its behaviour, for God's sake - what I'm saying is the dog can't be blamed; it's the idiot owner.

And where on earth did I say the police were in the wrong?! I have every respect for the police and what they do. My best friend's partner is a member of the Met and I applaud the work they do. I have every sympathy for the officers who were attacked by the dog - they were put in the most incredible situation and there was only one inevitable outcome.

Yes, I DO feel sorry for the dog - his owner "created" him. And yes, I DO feel sorry for the injured officers - there was nothing they could have done. The owner of the dog is entirely responsible for what happened on that street.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

diablo said:


> i don`t rely on a newspaper , i`ve watched the footage , all two minutes and more of it.
> theres ABSOLUTELY no reason why a dog should attack on that level , as i said the police are being damned because they did , and would have been damned because they didn`t , no win situation for them. that dog could have gone on to attack anyone on that road , so why are you defending it?:001_rolleyes: the police were not left with an awful lot of choice and there are now three officers in hospital recieving treatment for a dog that mauled them , wheres the sympathy for those poor officers who had every right to be there? you`re letting the way they handled the situation cloud your judgement on what was a horrible situation for everyone involved and potentially at risk.


I didn't mention anything about the police explicitly, other than the situation could have been handled better. I am not one to clump all things together in the same basket. There's good police and bad police. I don't know who these guys are, and quite frankly it is irrelevant.

If I am defending the dog, it is purely because 1) people's interpretations of the behaviour are so extreme and so nonsensical half the time, that it makes the dog into some devil creature who had intent to severely hurt the person and 2) that no one knows exactly what happened in this incident, before the video.

I have watched the video and, personally, was expecting it to be 10 times worse and think it could have been handled 10 times better too. Not blaming the police, just making an observation.

Also, I have agreed now 3 times on this thread that the dog should have been PTS. Although I think doing so on the street with a shotgun is very OTT and completely uncalled for. They had restrained the dog, why not pole him and then PTS later in the correct environment? It's a 'what if?' now of course.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

diablo said:


> how on earth were they supposed to contain a dog attacking on that sort of level and then PTS? werent really possible was it? to many lives and people at risk for them to have spent hanging around for that to happen , they made the right decision for ALL concerned.


By using the itel on the dog that had been previously reported, and using their dog team to secure it on entering the property. The dog was restrained (so they DID in fact contain it) prior to being shot (I actually would not have an issue with this had it been by someone who did not need 4 bullets to kill it).

It was a dog not a lion- seriously aggressive dogs are seized every day- surely there must have been a way to deal with the dog rather than shooting it (badly)


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

I sit on the fence with things like this. I have to....I wasn't there, so I don't know the full story.

I am an animal lover and it distresses me when the life is taken from any animal unnecessarily. I don't think that anyone has the right to take the life of another being without huge consideration (obviously some circumstances, possibly this one, change that) - that's just my opinion.

The only thoughts that I have about this situation are that if 5 offices are going to an address to make an arrest, its a pre-empted situation. In this situation they would have been briefed about the full circumstances, and I would have thought that would included that a dog lived on the property (especially if it had been reported before). Therefore, proper and due consideration should have been made for this fact.

My other thought is that, if the dog had of been subdued rather than killed, what would the final outcome have been for that dog anyway? It likely would have suffered the same fate as other dogs that have been detained under the DDA, and eventually destroyed after months or years in solitary confinement. With that in mind, sadly, I can't see any other outcome.

I DO feel sorry for the dog. No animal chooses its owner, and that owner ultimately decides the fate of the dog if they choose to let it be aggressive.

At the end of the day we are at the mercy of the propaganda of the media anyway and they will dictate where sympathies should lie depending on how they report the story.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Just to repeat, the dog was not shot 4 times. 

There is no evidence that points 100% to that this dog HAD attacked before.

A passer by made a complaint that they were attacked by a dog outside that property to the local council. They investigated and found no concrete evidence the dog involved was the same dog. As per policy the council then informed the police of a dog attack in that area.

An armed officer is authorised to fire as many times as they wish, as long as they can justify the action was needed. Or to use the legal defination "that reasonable force was used."

Now not wanting to 2nd guess the Trojan officer, there are many reasons why more than one shot can be taken.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

jetsmum said:


> I've not watched the video, as I'd find it too upsetting.


Id honestly tell people to watch the video before coming to conclusions. The video is not very graphic, its taken from afar and there is no sound.

The video simply shows that the matter could have been handled in a much better way. Also why is there no sound? Was something said that shouldnt have been said? Why was one officer jumping from wall to wall and running across the street? Was the dog in the house when the officers went in? Why not run out and close the gate to stop any further injury?

If the dog had attacked before why was a dog unit not present?

Sorry but all i see is a matter handled badly by apparently professional law enforcers.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

diablo said:


> the owner was known to the police and there are reports surfacing that this dog HAD attacked before! so what were the police supposed to do ?
> they`d have been damned if they didn`t and are being damned because they did , either way it was a no win for them.


Sorry, haven't had time to read all the replies yet, but surely, if the police were aware that the dog had attacked before, thr sensible thing to do would have been to send in thr dog unit?
If they went in completely unable to defend themselves (I think English police don't carry anything proper to defend themselves?), then this was an accident waiting to happen. 
I haven't watched thr video (and won't) and I feel sorry for the police officers.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> Id honestly tell people to watch the video before coming to conclusions. The video is not very graphic, its taken from afar and there is no sound.
> 
> The video simply shows that the matter could have been handled in a much better way. Also why is there no sound? Was something said that shouldnt have been said? Why was one officer jumping from wall to wall and running across the street? Was the dog in the house when the officers went in? Why not run out and close the gate to stop any further injury?
> 
> ...


There is no sound due to swearing. However if you look through this post there is another video with sound (swearing bleeped out). However be warned that video shows the dog being shot.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Also DSU (dog handlers) were present prior to the arrival of the ARV.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

shamykebab said:


> Clearly you don't understand dogs then. Dogs don't have to have a "reason" to attack - so much of a dog's behaviour is down to socialisation, training etc. Go to countries where dogs such as this are actively encouraged and then utilised as guard dogs. Those dogs will attack without provocation because that was the nature of their upbringing, same as this dog.


i never said they needed a `reason` to attack , i said there was no reason why a dog should attack on that kind of level  i still have no sympathy for the dog , i have sympathy for those officers just doing their jobs trying to rid our streets of scumbags who flout the law and think they can get away with it.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

terencesmum said:


> Sorry, haven't had time to read all the replies yet, but surely, if the police were aware that the dog had attacked before, thr sensible thing to do would have been to send in thr dog unit?
> If they went in completely unable to defend themselves (I think English police don't carry anything proper to defend themselves?), then this was an accident waiting to happen.
> I haven't watched thr video (and won't) and I feel sorry for the police officers.


I would guess the police who deal with kidnap suspects don't deal with standard dog complaints and from other comments no proof either.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> I would guess the police who deal with kidnap suspects don't deal with standard dog complaints and from other comments no proof either.


You'd hink if you were entering somebody's property, especially somebody who is unsavoury, you'd try to get as much intel as possible. A dangerous dog would be quite high on my list of "want to know if it's inside".


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

terencesmum said:


> You'd hink if you were entering somebody's property, especially somebody who is unsavoury, you'd try to get as much intel as possible. A dangerous dog would be quite high on my list of "want to know if it's inside".


Probably but then we are all surmising based on snippets from the press


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

The owner is due to be charged under DDA for owning a Pitbull.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

leannelatty said:


> And i do agree that the reason that the dog behaved the way that it did was solely down to the scumbag that owned the dog! But......why were reports of this dog attacking others ignored by the police previously? If they hadnt been then this incident may have been avoided and the poor policeman that was injured during this incident not!* I think it is time that the police did more to step up and follow up on reports of dangerous dogs* but i also think that owners of these dogs need to be monitored and be advised to take control of the dogs ie train them not to be aggressive and if not then they should be removed. although if that happened how many more dogs would be sadly pts or end up in rescues? Its a lose lose situation and who pays for it? The dogs that are mistreated and the responsible owners of these types of dogs who are wrongly sterotyped.


So what do you suggest the police do then. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't do anything. I'm a dog lover myself but there is no place on this earth for dogs like that. If the police start seizing dangerous dogs that could imply any breed of dog that has been raised in the wrong hands or is the result of bad breeding. 
So granny's little poodle gets snatched from her hands because it snapped at a passerby...thats a dangerous dog surely? it could have been a childs face. There would be absolute uproar if the police seized any dog that bared its teeth.
I also think some onus has to come down on the dog. These dogs aren't just nipping people, they are savaging them. People keep saying its not the dogs fault. Well there must be a short circuit wrong in its brain somewhere telling it to savage rather than a quick bite to warn off.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

DoggieBag said:


> The owner is due to be charged under DDA for owning a Pitbull.


you see this is what i don`t get. clearly the guy was a law breaker , used his dog as a weapon to attack innocent people just doing their jobs. yet folks defend that.
you know i`m always disgusted when dog attacks take place and ever so occasionally fair enough , sometimes it`s not the fault of the dog.
but in this instance , there is strong video footage of a dog rampaging around attacking innocent people , i`m all for BSL and deed not breed , but we can`t have it all roads , the dog is clearly attacking quite viciously , 5 people hurt and probably would have been more casualties if all that sh1t wasnt put to a quick end , you know in defending that dog , you loose every arguement you ever faught to put breeds like that in a good light.


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## Tallyho (Feb 18, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> It wanted to attack- what garbage. I do not condone the actions of this dog- its response was OTT, but as it was not living in the best of conditions "the guy rarely took it out" I imagine this contributed. Like i said Many dogs would react in an aggressive/guarding manner if 4 cops turned up and battered down the door to their home.
> 
> There is no excuse for an inhumane death IMO- just hope the shot was good and true, which as it took four shots obviously wasnt.


listen to your self , its not garbage at all , guarding yes in its own property but the dog chased and attacked out in the street as well , so yes it did want to attack there is having a quick snap or bite but that dog wanted that, and if the dog is out on the loose and it has all ready bitten not just one but 5 people then they have to kill it no matter how many bullets , they had to stop it there and then not fanny about , if the dog is running about in the street where children could of turned up it has got to be stopped as quick as possible, peoples safty must be a first at all times. 
I hope all the police bitten will make quick recoveries .


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Any dog regardless of breed when "in the zone" will pick up on certain responses from the person or indeed other dog in its grasp. Being noisy (screaming), hitting out with a baton, walking or running away will all make the dog continue it's attack.

So the police officers did not help themselves, however to be honest most of their actions would of been done by many in their position.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Its also horrific to realise that in this day and age a passerby will stop and film a person being mauled and do nothing to help. You cant tell me that noone had a weapon, a proper weapon, a lump of wood or anything to hit the dog with. Even a kitchen knife would have done.
The actions of the other policemen astound me too tbh, watching their colleague being pulled almost to the ground and they are leaping onto cars.
That police officer is lucky to be alive.


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## BlueBeagle (Oct 27, 2011)

Many of these owners actually train their dogs to attack uniforms (they used to do this in my local park ) and so when a dog sees the policemen it will attack as 'trained' to do. It is so sad for the dog and for the policeman and I hope the scum that owned it is dealt with in an appropriate manner.


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## Tallyho (Feb 18, 2012)

Just watched the video of it , and at the end you can just hear a bloke say about the dog being shot and it being cruelty , now i wonder if he waould still be saying that if he or one of his children had just been mauled by the dog :skep:

Also got to agree with comments made about the police not helping each other , but just walking off which i find a bit sad , i know they were probly scared as i would be but you would have to try and do something , i watched a vid once of an attack by a pit on a couple , while the dog had hold of her partner , she grabbed the back legs and held them up off the ground the dog let go trying to get to her but could not do any thing she held it there untill the police came and shot it .


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

There's a lot being made of how the dog needed shooting four times but there is nothing on the video to say the dog wasn't dead after the first shot and the other *two* were just for safety


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Tallyho said:


> Just watched the video of it , and at the end you can just hear a bloke say about the dog being shot and it being cruelty , now i wonder if he waould still be saying that if he or one of his children had just been mauled by the dog :skep:


Maybe the police should have left him with the dog then he could have gently dealt with it no doubt


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## Tallyho (Feb 18, 2012)

im pretty sure after the 3rd shot just before the video finishes , you can see the dog move so another shot was probly needed, after watching the video i would say after the first shot if the dog was down then not dead it should of been head shots after that .


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Tallyho said:


> im pretty sure after the 3rd shot just before the video finishes , you can see the dog move so another shot was probly needed, after watching the video i would say after the first shot if the dog was down then not dead it should of been head shots after that .


Weren't they head shots?


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Tallyho said:


> im pretty sure after the 3rd shot just before the video finishes , you can see the dog move so another shot was probly needed, after watching the video i would say after the first shot if the dog was down then not dead it should of been head shots after that .


Nerves can still twitch and cause an animal to still appear alive even if it is brain dead.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Tallyho said:


> listen to your self , its not garbage at all , guarding yes in its own property but the dog chased and attacked out in the street as well , so yes it did want to attack there is having a quick snap or bite but that dog wanted that, and if the dog is out on the loose and it has all ready bitten not just one but 5 people then they have to kill it no matter how many bullets , they had to stop it there and then not fanny about , if the dog is running about in the street where children could of turned up it has got to be stopped as quick as possible, peoples safty must be a first at all times.
> I hope all the police bitten will make quick recoveries .


Listen to YOUR self believing all the media hype that surrounds dogs of this type.

This attack started in its own property- or as a result of the policeman running off the property on sight of the dog.

There were no frigging kids involved.

the dog had been restrained- it had been stopped BEFORE the first shot was fired.

As I have said in practically every post- YES the dog needed to be PTS, its behaviour was 100% unacceptable- NO this was not the way to do it


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Lexiedhb said:


> Listen to YOUR self believing all the media hype that surrounds dogs of this type.
> 
> This attack started in its own property- or as a result of the policeman running off the property on sight of the dog.
> 
> ...


Are you 100% certain the dog wasn't still hanging on to the policemans body when it was shot......are you certain that the only way to get the dog to release its grip was not to shoot it.....were you the fly on the wall closely watching every little detail?


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## Magnus (Oct 9, 2008)

Well, I've watched the full video with sound. I've read the Daily Mail article and the (equally crap) Guardian articles and I have little sympathy for the dog, not too much for the police and zero for the dog's owner.

The police should have been better prepared, they had "intelligence" on the address and previous complaints about the dog. That said the policeman who ended up being attacked was not to blame for the lack of preparation.

The dog was obviously out of control due to having had the misfortune to be owned by a total knobhead, for that reason I sympathise a little with the dog. However, once the dog behaves like that *it doesn't matter how it became that way*; there's no use people saying it wasn't the dog's fault etc. we know all that but it ended up as a dangerous dog and was rightly shot and I don't care whether it was shot once, three times or a hundred times. If it had been hanging off your arm you would have wanted it dead!

The perfect solution to these incidents is to stop knobheads owning dogs but unfortunately that's impossible to implement.

The next best thing is too ban the breeds that these knobheads seem to want to own. That's unfair on everyone else who likes these breeds and who are responsible owners who nurture there dogs with kindness and have happy, healthy and friendly pets.

That's it. There's no right answer. It's a bit sh!tty on "bull-breed" owners but while this underclass of criminal yob wants to arm himself with a Pitbull or similar there isn't much else we can do.

Rescue centres are filled with "Staffs" and "Staffy Crosses" because these idiots let them roam and breed out of control. All this does is to further alienate these breed types from other breed owners - rightly or wrongly, it's a fact; people do not trust Staffies and Bull breeds because they regularly see these dogs being used for intimidation by the knobheads that seem so prevalent in our towns and cities.

A mass cull would be my preferred solution.........and I don't mean the dogs!


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## Tallyho (Feb 18, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> Listen to YOUR self believing all the media hype that surrounds dogs of this type.
> 
> This attack started in its own property- or as a result of the policeman running off the property on sight of the dog.
> 
> ...


Its not media hype so please dont think that every one beleives all the crap published are you saying you are the only one that knows about this type then ??
And who said there WAS children involved ???? i said what IF there had been children .


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> Listen to YOUR self believing all the media hype that surrounds dogs of this type.
> 
> This attack started in its own property- or as a result of the policeman running off the property on sight of the dog.
> 
> ...


i`ll ask again HOW on earth was the dog supposed to be put to sleep ? it was viciously attacking 5 people , what should they have done ? waited for someone to come and control the dog until one of them ended up dead? there werent time for that , risk of life and limb was involved.

no there werent children involved but there so EASILY could have been on a busy PUBLIC road.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> Are you 100% certain the dog wasn't still hanging on to the policemans body when it was shot......are you certain that the only way to get the dog to release its grip was to shoot it.....were you the fly on the wall closely watching every little detail?


Were you?

No I am going by what was written- if that was indeed the case do you not think the daily fail would be making a big thing out of "the only way to get the dog to release its grip on the officer was to shoot it"

reports say ""contained and subsequently shot dead"". Does contained imply that it was still swinging off the officer?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Magnus said:


> The perfect solution to these incidents is to stop knobheads owning dogs but unfortunately that's impossible to implement.
> 
> The next best thing is too ban the breeds that these knobheads seem to want to own. That's unfair on everyone else who likes these breeds and who are responsible owners who nurture there dogs with kindness and have happy, healthy and friendly pets.
> 
> ...


Then when they move back to Rotties we can ban them and then the GSDs and the Dobes and Akitas and Malinois


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

diablo said:


> i`ll ask again HOW on earth was the dog supposed to be put to sleep ? it was viciously attacking 5 people , what should they have done ? waited for someone to come and control the dog until one of them ended up dead? there werent time for that , risk of life and limb was involved.
> 
> no there werent children involved but there so EASILY could have been on a busy PUBLIC road.


Or cars, or other dogs, or aliens or grannies or my sisters uncles cousin........ really? why the what ifs? The dog was contained- it could have been sedated from a distance, and then PTS using the usual methods. These officer seize dangerous dogs everyday but they do not go round shooting them in order to control them. The dog unit were there at this point as i understand it.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> Were you?
> 
> No I am going by what was written- if that was indeed the case do you not think the daily fail would be making a big thing out of "the only way to get the dog to release its grip on the officer was to shoot it"
> 
> reports say ""contained and subsequently shot dead"". Does contained imply that it was still swinging off the officer?


contained could so easily mean out of the eyeshot of the public , unfortunately there was some sick twit still filming with a camera


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> Or cars, or other dogs, or aliens or grannies or my sisters uncles cousin........ really? why the what ifs? The dog was contained- it could have been sedated from a distance, and then PTS using the usual methods. These officer seize dangerous dogs everyday but they do not go round shooting them in order to control them. The dog unit were there at this point as i understand it.


dogs that on the attack in which the way that one was , theres a strong chance sedation wouldn`t have worked
also your confusing everyday police officers [who have no dog control training ] with police dog handlers.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> Listen to YOUR self believing all the media hype that surrounds dogs of this type.
> 
> This attack started in its own property- or as a result of the policeman running off the property on sight of the dog.
> 
> ...


im sorry it has nothing to do with media hype, the dog attacked them full stop.

thre is no maybe it did maybe not, its on film the blood is on the pavement and it doesnt matter it started in its home as if my dog were to respond like that i wouldnt have it!

i hate it when people say about the media hype anyway, we are on the streets and can see for ourselves the situation.

gophers dog was mauled the other day leannelatty had a spaniel mauled and killed, its not all the media hype, these things are actually happening around us!!


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Lexiedhb said:


> Were you?
> 
> No I am going by what was written- if that was indeed the case do you not think the daily fail would be making a big thing out of "the only way to get the dog to release its grip on the officer was to shoot it"
> 
> reports say ""contained and subsequently shot dead"". Does contained imply that it was still swinging off the officer?


I can't answer as I wasnt there, I'm not a reporter. However you have made a lot of statements as if you were there, but you weren't.

You havent seen the policeman enter the property so you cannot state how it started.

How do you know there were no frigging kids involved. Have you knocked on all the door in the street to ask if any children watched from their windows.

The dog had been restrained.....how?

You have stated you are going by what has been written so you have contradicted yourself already by stating fact as perceived by yourself but it wasn't it was written.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> im sorry it has nothing to do with media hype, the dog attacked them full stop.
> 
> thre is no maybe it did maybe not, its on film the blood is on the pavement and it doesnt matter it started in its home as if my dog were to respond like that i wouldnt have it!
> 
> ...


Yes Of course it happens- blindingly obvious. But it is as always deed not breed.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> Listen to YOUR self believing all the media hype that surrounds dogs of this type.
> This attack started in its own property- or as a result of the policeman running off the property on sight of the dog.
> There were no frigging kids involved.
> the dog had been restrained- it had been stopped BEFORE the first shot was fired.
> As I have said in practically every post- YES the dog needed to be PTS, its behaviour was 100% unacceptable- NO this was not the way to do it


Not sure the actual method makes that much difference to the dog the end result is the same but say you and 4 other adults had been attacked, and had the responsibility of the publics safety just what would you have done?



Lexiedhb said:


> Or cars, or other dogs, or aliens or grannies or my sisters uncles cousin........ really? why the what ifs? The dog was contained- it could have been sedated from a distance, and then PTS using the usual methods. These officer seize dangerous dogs everyday but they do not go round shooting them in order to control them. The dog unit were there at this point as i understand it.


I have read of lots of cases where a dog has attacked people and police have shot them? Presumably its where they are still deemed a danger and too risky to remove from the area and euthinase


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I give up if you can not see that shooting a dog on a pavement is not the best way to go about things then that is up to you. 

If you can not see that this dog, who acted appallingly (and needed to be PTS) was the product of its owner/upbringing then fine.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm the first to usually side with the dog I'll admit that, yes it was protecting its territory but in that video it wasn't letting up, it was completely out of control. There was a programme on just recently about them (Death Row Dogs) & the dogs on the whole were not behaving like this:frown5:


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Lexiedhb said:


> I give up if you can not see that shooting a dog on a pavement is not the best way to go about things then that is up to you.
> 
> If you can not see that this dog, who acted appallingly (and needed to be PTS) was the product of its owner/upbringing then fine.


it was the best for all concerned , police did their job best way they knew how , in that situation , it prevented anyone else getting hurt , end of!!

PTS , moot point , lives were at risk.


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## Tallyho (Feb 18, 2012)

Its not always down to owners that you get bad tempered or nasty animals.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Lexiedhb said:


> I give up if you can not see that shooting a dog on a pavement is not the best way to go about things then that is up to you.
> 
> If you can not see that this dog, who acted appallingly (and needed to be PTS) was the product of its owner/upbringing then fine.


Are you saying that every dog is 100% safe around people until it has been badly trained/treated/beaten/teased/provoked/poked/prodded/whispered at/shouted at/beaten with a feather.

Surely as there are bad people there must also be bad dogs.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Lexiedhb said:


> I give up if you can not see that shooting a dog on a pavement is not the best way to go about things then that is up to you.
> 
> If you can not see that this dog, who acted appallingly (and needed to be PTS) was the product of its owner/upbringing then fine.


It's not the best way but I've seen a lot of restrained dogs suddenly become unrestrained and once it's running around the streets free how it was produced is irrelevant


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> Are you saying that every dog is 100% safe around people until it has been badly trained/treated/beaten/teased/provoked/poked/prodded/whispered at/shouted at/beaten with a feather.
> 
> Surely as there are bad people there must also be bad dogs.


Personally I do not believe so- pretty much all a consequence of upbringing IMO.


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## xkimxo (Jan 4, 2010)

One of my good friends came round last night upset as the officers involved are people she works with and it could well have been her. Even she does not know the full story yet but this is what she had told me,

It is protocol when going to any any address prior to entry that intelligence checks are made. No complaints about a dog had been made and no one had any knowledge of a dog being there. If there had been then a dog unit would have been there. She said they aren't given any training on how to deal with dogs as if they believe a dog will be there a dog unit will be called. She was told it took 5 shots to kill the dog as it wouldn't stop coming at them and would not let up and one officer lost some of his fingers.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

xkimxo said:


> one officer lost some of his fingers.


horrible. yet folks still defend the dog
hope this officer heals well , despite the loss of fingers


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

diablo said:


> dogs that on the attack in which the way that one was , theres a strong chance sedation wouldn`t have worked
> also your confusing everyday police officers [who have no dog control training ] with police dog handlers.


To me, personally, this was not a particularly frantic attack. The dog seemed almost idle about it!

Rescue centres, shelters, behavioural consultancies etc., experience attacks and can handle them a lot more sensibly. It might not have been an easy situation, but I think the ends don't meet the means.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Rottiefan said:


> To me, personally, *this was not a particularly frantic attack*. The dog seemed almost idle about it!
> 
> Rescue centres, shelters, behavioural consultancies etc., experience attacks and can handle them a lot more sensibly. It might not have been an easy situation, but I think the ends don't meet the means.


no of course it wasn`t an officer lost some of his fingers


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> Personally I do not believe so- pretty much all a consequence of upbringing IMO.


For all we know the dog could have been looked after fabulously well but had a brain tumour, or it could have been trained to be vicious and attack on command. Either way it appears to have been extremely dangerous


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

diablo said:


> no of course it wasn`t an officer lost some of his fingers


That is the (possible) result of the attack. I am making an observation about the dog's behaviour during the attack. To me, it did not appear to be as savage and vicious as the media claim it to be. I sympathise with the officer, of course, but a greater knowledge of dogs would have made handling this situation much safer, I think.

Instead of making overgeneralisations, why not stick to what we see on film. What I see is a dog attacking a person. That dog attacked for a prolonged period, but I didn't think it was as frantic dog attacks come. There seemed a more grab and hold behaviour going on, almost as if the dog had been trained to do such behaviour. I think this dog is dangerous and was rightly PTS.

I do not think, however, that the dog should be demonised or made wholly accountable for its actions. And I don't think it should have been shot on the street.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> For all we know the dog could have been looked after fabulously well but had a brain tumour, or it could have been trained to be vicious and attack on command. Either way it appears to have been extremely dangerous


Yes not denying that have said repeatedly it needed to be PTS


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> For all we know the dog could have been looked after fabulously well but had a brain tumour, or it could have been trained to be vicious and attack on command. Either way it appears to have been extremely dangerous


i agree , bull breeds get enough of a bad rep as it is , without dogs like this running loose. who cares if the dogs life was ended by a bullet , i certainly won`t loose any sleep over it.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Rottiefan said:


> That is the (possible) result of the attack. I am making an observation about the dog's behaviour during the attack. To me, it did not appear to be as savage and vicious as the media claim it to be. I sympathise with the officer, of course, but a greater knowledge of dogs would have made handling this situation much safer, I think.
> 
> Instead of making overgeneralisations, why not stick to what we see on film. What I see is a dog attacking a person. That dog attacked for a prolonged period, but I didn't think it was as frantic dog attacks come. There seemed a more grab and hold behaviour going on, almost as if the dog had been trained to do such behaviour. I think this dog is dangerous and was rightly PTS.
> 
> I do not think, however, that the dog should be demonised or made wholly accountable for its actions. And I don't think it should have been shot on the street.


well we`ll have to agree to disagree , i wont be loosing any sleep over a dog dangerously out of control in a public place.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Regarding the shooting in the street:

Ideally destruction should be done by a vet. But there are times an inspector (such as a local authority appointed one) or constable may authorise and/or carry out the destruction themselves.

This is done if it is believed there is no alternative to euthanising the animal or it is not practical to wait for a vet to arrive.

These guidelines are used daily by all authorised personnel. From "Police Marksman shoots runaway Bull" to an RSPCA Inspector attending a RTC with a deer and then putting it to sleep if still showing signs of life, but he/she deciding there is no alternative to PTS.

However the destruction must be done in a manner that does not cause too much suffering.

Regarding the 4 shots, as per all incidents involving a discharge of a weapon by a police officer, there will now be an investigation. During this, the officer involved will have to justify firing 4 times. for which there could be any number of reasons. This investigation will of course be different than one for a human connected discharge.


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## harrys_mum (Aug 18, 2010)

i dont get why people are on this terrible dogs side. 
the poor officers were badly injured, and could have been killed.
michelle x


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Lazy reporter copying their advice from somewhere but not quoting who. 

How to survive a dog attack - Mirror Online


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## Magnus (Oct 9, 2008)

hawksport said:


> Then when they move back to Rotties we can ban them and then the GSDs and the Dobes and Akitas and Malinois


Ideally my cull would have taken place by then.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

harrys_mum said:


> i dont get why people are on this terrible dogs side.
> the poor officers were badly injured, and could have been killed.
> michelle x


i really have no idea either.

whenever there is a severe dog attack there are always people in defence of the dog, the best one being when the little girl had her ear ripped off she may have been playing loudly and annoyed the poor dog!


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Well, we just got back from our walk in the park and some twerp felt it necessary to hurl abuse at us while my 3-year old was present. 
What dog did he walk? A Doodle. Idiot owners come with breeds of all shapes and sizes, unfortunately.


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## harrys_mum (Aug 18, 2010)

doesnt matter what type of dog it is, any dog that is vicious like this one, who hasnt been brought up properly, doesnt deserve to have a life and better off away from this thug of an owner.
the officers wounds were very very serious and no one can say otherwise, this dog is better off now rather than going on and probably killing a child.
michelle x


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## Spud the Bull Terrier (Jun 19, 2011)

Its a sorry state of affairs.

It seems as usual everyone is playing the blame game, with only the slimmest bit of information there is nothing better then jumping to conclusions. Lets blame the owner, no lets blame the police, or the dog, is there anyone else we can blame? 

But we really do not know what happened here. 

Maybe the owner was a criminal who had trained his dog to attack, or maybe he is an innocent man, who loved his dog and whose front door was smashed down by the police without warning.

Maybe the dog was a vicious and dangerous animal trained to attack, or maybe it was terrified, and thought it was fighting for its life after five strangers broke in to its house, and dragged away its master.

Maybe the police should have known about the dog before hand and done something about the reports, maybe they should have been dog experts and been trained in handling dangerous dogs or maybe they are five police offices who have too much work to do, with to little funding, and facing constant cuts to their budget, and who were forced to do their best in a difficult situation. 

I wonder how other peoples dogs would have reacted in the same situation?


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## xkimxo (Jan 4, 2010)

terencesmum said:


> Well, we just got back from our walk in the park and some twerp felt it necessary to hurl abuse at us while my 3-year old was present.
> What dog did he walk? A Doodle. Idiot owners come with breeds of all shapes and sizes, unfortunately.


Can I ask do you have to deal with idiot people a lot giving you comments? I am fostering a little staffy pup at the moment and in just over a week I have already been told he's cute now until he rips a toddlers face off and a lady at the vets was cooing over him until I told her the breed and she recoiled in horror and walked off .


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Rottiefan said:


> *To me, personally, this was not a particularly frantic attack. The dog seemed almost idle about it! *
> 
> Rescue centres, shelters, behavioural consultancies etc., experience attacks and can handle them a lot more sensibly. It might not have been an easy situation, but I think the ends don't meet the means.


From what I've seen of dog fighting (and I do watch videos if I'm shown them, I can't make an informed opinion if I don't) the dog's behaviour is similar to that shown by dogs fighting- it looks quite calm from the outside, & the dogs are wagging their tails a lot of the time & it looks almost playful. But the damage done is horrific


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

terencesmum said:


> Well, we just got back from our walk in the park and some twerp felt it necessary to hurl abuse at us while my 3-year old was present.
> What dog did he walk? A Doodle. Idiot owners come with breeds of all shapes and sizes, unfortunately.


I'm at work so know it isn't me, and am a she anyway  What was he hurling abuse for?


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> i really have no idea either.
> 
> whenever there is a severe dog attack there are always people in defence of the dog, the best one being when the little girl had her ear ripped off she may have been playing loudly and annoyed the poor dog!


I dont think ppl are necessarily defending the actions of the dog so much as they are blaming the scumbag owner for those actions. I think that most owners would expect their dog PTS (or shot which i believe are 2 different things but thats for another thread!) if it behaved in this way (i would!) but the difference is we dont train or want our dogs to behave in this way and this scumbag did. i think the focus of the "blame" needs to be on the owner for the actions of his dog but there is no denying that the dog behaved in this way bcos we have the proof of this and my sympathies go out to the police officers that were injured.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> i really have no idea either.
> 
> whenever there is a severe dog attack there are always people in defence of the dog, the best one being when the little girl had her ear ripped off she may have been playing loudly and annoyed the poor dog!


Without wanting to cause an arguement, unless you know the full details about the minutes leading up to that attack do not go calling it "the best example of people defending the dog".


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

terencesmum said:


> Well, we just got back from our walk in the park and some twerp felt it necessary to hurl abuse at us while my 3-year old was present.
> What dog did he walk? A Doodle. Idiot owners come with breeds of all shapes and sizes, unfortunately.


idiots come in all shapes and sizes and all classes and races.

ok he had a doodle, what does it matter, the dog did you no harm. maybe if the dog had of attacked it would be more relevant.

if anything it proves you can be an idiot owner to a doodle and it will be fine.


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## harrys_mum (Aug 18, 2010)

i dont think the owner was a dog loving owner like us, the police were there because he had committed grievious bodily harm and kidnap........
dog was probably trained to attack police and anyone who went near him.
michelle x


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Without wanting to cause an arguement, unless you know the full details about the minutes leading up to that attack do not go calling it "the best example of people defending the dog".


im sorry, yeah im pretty sure she was asking for it all along!

actually i have a good understanding of what went on in that attack as i know people who were a party to it.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

xkimxo said:


> Can I ask do you have to deal with idiot people a lot giving you comments? I am fostering a little staffy pup at the moment and in just over a week I have already been told he's cute now until he rips a toddlers face off and a lady at the vets was cooing over him until I told her the breed and she recoiled in horror and walked off .


Well, we get 2 types of reaction. Either, people absolutely love him and roll around on the floor with him and tell me that all the media hype about bull breeds is rubbish.
Or we get the people effing and blinding at my "devil dog". They tell me how he'll eat my children, rip the neighbours, can't be trusted. Today, somebody told me he'd turn "nasty and hard" unless I neuter him straight away. :skep:
The abuse we get is frequent and pretty horrible at times. I do not look like a "typical" bull owner, I am well educated and try my hardest to train Terence to the best of my ability. All I want is for people to extend the same courtesy to me and my dog that they would extend to the owner of a Labrador or any other type of dog. I do not want people shouting the odds at my "dangerous, vicious monster" because he is playing off lead. I don't want people pressing themselves against walls and jumping into the road because we walk past. 
He is not a monster, he is a dog.



DoodlesRule said:


> I'm at work so know it isn't me, and am a she anyway  What was he hurling abuse for?


Lol, he was shouting how "effing" dogs like "THAT" should not be allowed anywhere near children (pointed at my 3-year old) and should be PTS for "everyone's sake". You get the idea.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> im sorry, yeah im pretty sure she was asking for it all along!
> 
> actually i have a good understanding of what went on in that attack as i know people who were a party to it.


I have a good understanding as well.


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> idiots come in all shapes and sizes and all classes and races.
> 
> ok he had a doodle, what does it matter, the dog did you no harm. maybe if the dog had of attacked it would be more relevant.
> 
> *if anything it proves you can be an idiot owner to a doodle and it will be fine.*


Exactly my point.


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## Magnus (Oct 9, 2008)

Spud the Bull Terrier said:


> I wonder how other peoples dogs would have reacted in the same situation?


If it got really bad Bear might have turned the right way up and yawned!


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## Spud the Bull Terrier (Jun 19, 2011)

harrys_mum said:


> i dont think the owner was a dog loving owner like us, the police were there because he had committed grievious bodily harm and kidnap........


your logic is a bit faulty

1) Simply being accused of a crime does not make you guilty.

2) Being a criminal and being a dog lover are not mutually exclusive.



> dog was probably trained to attack police and anyone who went near him.
> michelle x


 this is yet to be proven, but why let that stand in our way.


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## 5rivers79 (Mar 28, 2011)

I dont believe for one minute that there is such thing as a bad dog. This dog wasnt bad either. It was doing exactly what the owner had trained and brought it up to do.

To blame imo is 

1)The owner for bringing up the dog to do what it was doing.

2)Whoever gathered the police intelligence. There were reports of this dog attacking people before..why was it not dealt with then? Also why werent officers informed of a vicious dog at the property of a known criminal? Would you send in a unprepared team to deal with a armed criminal who has a gun? No. So why was it regarded as not being important here? An officer could have died.

3)The officers at the scene. Fair enough they were scared..but these 5 officers..grown adults remember could have lessened the damage by helping each other out. Stop the dog from getting out of the house. But instead they all ran for their own safety..some clambering up walls. For goodness sakes these people are supposed to be trained to deal with hostile situations with sound mind and efficiency. They have pepper spray/cs gas, batons etc etc but none of them did anything...scary thought as their friend/colleague could have been mauled to death. 

4)The guy hitting the dog with the stick was in no doubt just making the dog angrier, but atleast he was trying to help the officer that was getting bit.

To be honest the whole thing is a balls up by the police force responsible for sending these unprepared officers in.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

5rivers79 said:


> I dont believe for one minute that there is such thing as a bad dog. This dog wasnt bad either. It was doing exactly what the owner had trained and brought it up to do.
> 
> To blame imo is
> 
> ...


CS spray does not work on dogs.


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## beris (Aug 30, 2010)

DoggieBag said:


> Without wanting to cause an arguement, unless you know the full details about the minutes leading up to that attack do not go calling it "the best example of people defending the dog".


I completely agree with you. Unfortunately many people, even on this PF site, on many threads, make assumptions before knowing the true facts. My policy is that there are always two sides to every story and unfortunately more often than not we only here one side.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

there are naturally naughty dogs, cheeky dogs, calm dogs and placid dogs so why can there not be naturally aggressive dogs?

all of my dogs have come to me from puppies with their own personality, my last dog billy was so placid at 12 weeks and so calm he didnt even play that much, his litter brother was named super sonic he run around so fast. dogs can just be bad dogs!


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> i really agree.
> 
> to me this is not a dog, not in the sense of what i was brought up with or the ideas of a dog i was brought up with.
> 
> this dog is acting as a wild animal and therefore cannot have a safe place in society, not with animals and children and people. if a dog attacks that severely that quickly then something is wrong and we are witnessing it on an almost daily instance.


I agree with you 100% and any sympathy I might have felt for this dog is lost on the fact that there ARE too many of these "poor" dogs running loose on society it's not fair on us, other dogs or even the dog itself who clearly knows no better.

Some dogs can *NOT BE* rehabilitated, end of.


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## Mici (Nov 13, 2011)

a scenario: 
Dog saves a family of 2 childreen and their parents from 5 armed robbers entering their house. The dog attacks them and they flee so the family has time to run to safety. A dog is a hero, and maybe even gets that courage cross that pets can get.

Now just change the words family for bad guy AND robbers for the police officers... And the dog is a vicious beast. Well newsfleash - in dogs eyes there is no difference between those too scenarios!

I am not saying the police had no right to protect themselves by shooting the dog (tho as has been said, they should have known about the dog or expect something like that prior to making the raid) but they should not be such lousy shooters to not be able to kill a dog in one shot when it was restrained....


And yes, I would probably be scared of a dog attacking me like that, but than I am NOT a policeofficers whos job is to protect and serve...They shouldn't be so specialized that they can't handle a new situation even if they were not specifically trained for it....Even police DOGS are expected to not fall apart when confronted with an unknpown situation...
Maybe temperament tests should be done for policeofficers too, not just for their dogs 


As for could the dog be rehabilitated...Well not even some people can be so probably not...
And yes, some breeds are more agressive/protective than others but than we expect different things from our dogs. I for one would not like to have a dog that would just bark or watch me get attacked. If the dog is protecting the "bad guy" it is not really his fault as it only does what it was expected of him


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Mici said:


> a scenario:
> Dog saves a family of 2 childreen and their parents from 5 armed robbers entering their house. The dog attacks them and they flee so the family has time to run to safety. A dog is a hero, and maybe even gets that courage cross that pets can get.
> 
> Now just change the words family for bad guy AND robbers for the police officers... And the dog is a vicious beast. Well newsfleash - in dogs eyes there is no difference between those too scenarios!
> ...


Wish there was an auto reply for replying to certain posts. 

It has already been said on here, the 4 shots have nothing to do with being a lousy shot. Sometimes 4 shots are needed, sometimes 1, sometimes 7, sometimes........you get the idea.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Mici said:


> And yes, some breeds are more agressive/protective than others but than we expect different things from our dogs. I for one would not like to have a dog that would just bark or watch me get attacked. If the dog is protecting the "bad guy" it is not really his fault as it only does what it was expected of him


well i dont have a dog to protect me, infact i feel like i am always protecting them from being attacked and not the other way around.

if i was being attacked i may expect a dog of mine to bark and scare them away but if they attacked my attacker i dont know if i could fully trust them anyway!


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

diablo said:


> the owner was known to the police and there are reports surfacing that this dog HAD attacked before! so what were the police supposed to do ?
> they`d have been damned if they didn`t and are being damned because they did , either way it was a no win for them.


I'm not or did not day anything to get that response ;. I didn't say the police shouldn't have gone u , I just wondered why between five of them there wasn't any gas or tazers especially f they where doing a raid or going to arrest someone. I understand that it's not that common though for all police officers to carry such items.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

5rivers79 said:


> 3)The officers at the scene. Fair enough they were scared..but these 5 officers..grown adults remember could have lessened the damage by helping each other out. Stop the dog from getting out of the house. But instead they all ran for their own safety..some clambering up walls. For goodness sakes these people are supposed to be trained to deal with hostile situations with sound mind and efficiency. They have pepper spray/cs gas, batons etc etc but none of them did anything...scary thought as their friend/colleague could have been mauled to death.


To give them the benefit of the doubt perhaps they'd been told to get out of the way until the firearm people turned up, to avoid more people getting injured.

Also, what could they have done really? Yank the dog off the guys arm? That could have had really awful consequences and even if it worked what would have happened then? The dog latches onto someone else?

Until you're in a situation like that I don't think you can really comment on how they reacted.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

diablo said:


> well we`ll have to agree to disagree , i wont be loosing any sleep over a dog dangerously out of control in a public place.


Neither will I. However, I will be losing sleep over people's attitudes to a dog being dangerously out of control in a public place.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> there are naturally naughty dogs, cheeky dogs, calm dogs and placid dogs so why can there not be naturally aggressive dogs?
> ...
> dogs can just be bad dogs!


And where is your evidence for claims other than experience? What we see with our eyes and what we think see, compared to how things actually are, can often be two different things.

Are there genes for 'aggression'? What do you mean by 'natural'? Is a dog that attacks when scared a 'bad' dog? At what point does a dog become 'bad', considering all dogs possess the ability to perform aggressive behaviours?


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## Mici (Nov 13, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> well i dont have a dog to protect me, infact i feel like i am always protecting them from being attacked and not the other way around.
> 
> if i was being attacked i may expect a dog of mine to bark and scare them away but if they attacked my attacker i dont know if i could fully trust them anyway!


Well but I do! There are different views on dog ownership and you have chosen your dog/ breed and I have chosen mine. My dog never attacked anyone (I have him under control) but I for one would expect him to defend me/my family if an attack should occur. The same as I would defend him and my family. But that was really not the main point in my post...

My point was that the situation was handled badly by people who are supposedly there to protect the general public but acted cowardly. They are NOT general public, I repeat, PROTECTING IS THEIR JOB (or should be!) so for them to panic when put under stress is NOT acceptable.

Plus my point was that the dog was protecting its family and if that family happens to be a bad guy than a dog doesn't care. That is afterall what we love about dogs (at least I do) that they don't judge you and love you no matter how much you earn or how smart you are etc...AND at least for me a big part of loving my dog is his loyalty and protectiveness.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

WarDoll said:


> I'm not or did not day anything to get that response ;. I didn't say the police shouldn't have gone u , I just wondered why between five of them there wasn't any gas or tazers especially f they where doing a raid or going to arrest someone. I understand that it's not that common though for all police officers to carry such items.


For the 1000th time  - CS Spray will not have the desired effect on a dog, they have different tear ducts than humans.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

DoggieBag said:


> For the 1000th time  - CS Spray will not have the desired effect on a dog, they have different tear ducts than humans.


When we used to go in the CS 'chamber' when I was in the Army and were coughing and spluttering away a few instructors used to allow their dogs to come in with us - they were utterly unaffected.


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## Spud the Bull Terrier (Jun 19, 2011)

Mici said:


> a scenario:
> *Dog saves a family of 2 childreen and their parents from 5 armed robbers entering their house. The dog attacks them and they flee so the family has time to run to safety. A dog is a hero, and maybe even gets that courage cross that pets can get.
> 
> Now just change the words family for bad guy AND robbers for the police officers... And the dog is a vicious beast. Well newsfleash - in dogs eyes there is no difference between those too scenarios!
> ...


These bits I agree with!


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I am afraid this is down once again to humans who train these dogs to be lethal weapons,if the dog had not been killed where on earth could it have gone I have a house full of dogs who have been abused by humans and it was me take them or they would have been PTS they are mental wrecks.If a dog unit had gone in the poor animal would have been dragged off to what is a cement cell to await being PTS


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## Spud the Bull Terrier (Jun 19, 2011)

suewhite said:


> I am afraid this is down once again to humans who train these dogs to be lethal weapons............


 Where is the evidence that this is the case in this instance?


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

DoggieBag said:


> For the 1000th time  - CS Spray will not have the desired effect on a dog, they have different tear ducts than humans.


Yes I realise that (now) I was just quoting what I put in my initial post , sorry. X


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Post hearing report - Man remanded over police dog attack - UK, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

How rude to try and walk off before the Judge had finished speaking.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Spud the Bull Terrier said:


> Where is the evidence that this is the case in this instance?


Sorry thats me going off on another track and talking in general put it down to age


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

DoggieBag said:


> Post hearing report - Man remanded over police dog attack - UK, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
> 
> How rude to try and walk off before the Judge had finished speaking.


Hmf, let's hope the police have some sort of internal investigation to establish WHY they hadn't picked up on intelligence that the dog was there.
What a c*ck up and some poor sods paid dearly for it.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

DoggieBag said:


> .
> How rude to try and walk off before the Judge had finished speaking.


Automatically contravenes his job descripton then which aims 'to promote positive behaviour among young people' 

Thought CRB checks were supposed to be very strict for those working with children and young people! That kidnap charge.......


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Rottiefan said:


> Neither will I. However, I will be losing sleep over people's attitudes to a dog being dangerously out of control in a public place.


 lets hope you never need the help of the police then eh ?


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

I watched the video on the Mail's website (there is sound) and was shocked the way the dog was acting and the way it just kept coming for them  

TBH, I am not shocked at all that they shot the dog in the end (saddened that it took 3 shots that I counted, 4 on the reports), if they hadn't it would have been PTS anyway, but before that been shoved in a kennel somewhere. Ultumately it would end the same way.

Oh, and if you are upset easily, dont watch to the end of the video  You actually see the police around the dog and hear the shots 

I am most sad with this story that its another story which is going to scare people of Staffies (as they think they are pits!)

*Heidi*


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

diablo said:


> lets hope you never need the help of the police then eh ?


This is almost hilarious now, Diablo. You act as if all my posts have been condemning the police, verbally attacking them and saying how bad they are etc., etc.

I think you should have another read through what I have written and try to conduct yourself in some kind of mature manner. It's embarrassing at the end of the day to be replied to in numerous posts implying I am attacking the police for their actions.

This has nothing to do with the police themselves, understand?

My opinion on the matter is 1) people completely overreacted at the situation both on the scene and off the scene 2) the policemen did not handle the situation as well as they could have 3) the dog should not have been shot in the street, that to me is just a complete overreaction again 4) the dog should have been PTS elsewhere and calling this dog a "devil" dog is ignorant of how the dog has most probably been treated in the past.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2012)

Rottiefan said:


> This is almost hilarious now, Diablo. You act as if all my posts have been condemning the police, verbally attacking them and saying how bad they are etc., etc.
> 
> I think you should have another read through what I have written and try to conduct yourself in some kind of mature manner. It's embarrassing at the end of the day to be replied to in numerous posts implying I am attacking the police for their actions.
> 
> ...



you are attacking the fact they chose to shoot the dog , what choice did they have , pts wasn`t an option , too lives and too many people at risk. 
but hey , i completely understand that as i don`t put the life of a dog before human beings.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I wonder if it might be an idea to change the name of this forum to Pet Lovers/Human Haters.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I wonder if it might be an idea to change the name of this forum to Pet Lovers/Human Haters.


Wow how mature you are. 

eta I can't see in any of the posts where people are saying they are human haters. You are making assumptions.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

diablo said:


> you are attacking the fact they chose to shoot the dog , what choice did they have , pts wasn`t an option , too lives and too many people at risk.
> but hey , i completely understand that as i don`t put the life of a dog before human beings.


You see, this ^^^ is over-exaggeration.

My last comment: I do not think it was imperative to shoot a dog in the street that day, I think other alternatives could have been sought, namely, waiting for a dog unit with a dog pole and safely taking the dog away to relax.


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

Rottiefan said:


> You see, this ^^^ is over-exaggeration.
> 
> My last comment: I do not think it was imperative to shoot a dog in the street that day, I think other alternatives could have been sought, namely, waiting for a dog unit with a dog pole and safely taking the dog away to relax.


A dog unit were on scene, they were called before the armed officers were.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2012)

Rottiefan said:


> You see, this ^^^ is over-exaggeration.
> 
> My last comment: I do not think it was imperative to shoot a dog in the street that day, I think other alternatives could have been sought, namely, waiting for a dog unit with a dog pole and safely taking the dog away to relax.


you cannot have a vicious dog running round after it had attacked and mauled 5 people , they did did what they had to due to people getting hurt.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Rottiefan said:


> You see, this ^^^ is over-exaggeration.
> 
> My last comment: I do not think it was imperative to shoot a dog in the street that day, I think other alternatives could have been sought, namely, waiting for a dog unit with a dog pole and safely taking the dog away to relax.


They ended the dogs suffering there and then...can't see a problem with that. And surely it must have been suffering, it had been kicked, beaten, held down, massively stressed. So why not shoot it there and then and end it.

Your way makes it more stressful for the dog. Grabbed by a pole around its neck, snarling and screaming. Thrown into a crate. Dumped in the back of a strange vehicle and then thrown into a concrete pen somewhere awaiting its fate anyway. Tell me where that dog would have gotten a chance to relax?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Rottiefan said:


> You see, this ^^^ is over-exaggeration.
> 
> My last comment: I do not think it was imperative to shoot a dog in the street that day, I think other alternatives could have been sought, namely, waiting for a dog unit with a dog pole and safely taking the dog away to relax.


What a good idea, stress it out even more then kill it. I am sure the EXPERTS who were there on the spot would have made the decision. And I am sure the dog unit people love dogs just as much as you do, probably more so as they work with them full time.


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## celeste/ROXY (Jun 12, 2011)

This is exactly why ceratain people should not own certain breeds. You can not blame the dog for this attack it was doing what it was trained to do. 
This was a poorly organised operation. They would have had intelligance about the dog so should have had dog handlers in place and this dog should have been secured before it got to this stage.
And where exactly are these 5 police officers? Only one on tape. And why 4 shots. Thought armed response could take out a human with one shot. So why not a medium build dog. The last minutes of this dogs life was pure terror and then a trained armed officer could get the bullet in the right place.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

celeste/ROXY said:


> This is exactly why ceratain people should not own certain breeds. You can not blame the dog for this attack it was doing what it was trained to do.
> This was a poorly organised operation. They would have had intelligance about the dog so should have had dog handlers in place and this dog should have been secured before it got to this stage.
> And where exactly are these 5 police officers? Only one on tape. And why 4 shots. Thought armed response could take out a human with one shot. So why not a medium build dog. The last minutes of this dogs life was pure terror and then a trained armed officer could get the bullet in the right place.


I think you need to go back and read the whole thread again if you haven't and it will answer some of your questions.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2012)

you are TOTALLY missing the point, it doesn't matter who's fault it was (stop trying to apportion blame) fact is fact the dog attacked, it was a vicious and unprovoked attack it needed to be destroyed NO QUESTION.

I wish everyone could stop being SO SILLY about this


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## celeste/ROXY (Jun 12, 2011)

Sorry thought I was joining in an open discussion. 

Will remeber not to be so forth coming again


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

celeste/ROXY said:


> Sorry thought I was joining in an open discussion.
> 
> Will remeber not to be so forth coming again


You were and you did and you're most welcome


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## celeste/ROXY (Jun 12, 2011)

Thank you. Dont normally butt into to discussions as I always feel like I'm standing at the bus stop earwigging
But love reading all the posts as IU pick up loads of info for my babbies


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## Mici (Nov 13, 2011)

Gopher said:


> you are TOTALLY missing the point, it doesn't matter who's fault it was (stop trying to apportion blame) fact is fact the dog attacked, it was a vicious and unprovoked attack it needed to be destroyed NO QUESTION.


Yeah, it is just that the attack was not necessarily unprovoked in the dogs eyes, you see...(try getting in the kennel of police dogs uninvited and watch what happens...Or other dogs of appropriate breeds). See he scenario about 5 armed robbers coming in the house....Now how is the dog supposed to know that just because htey are uniformed they have the right to come into house uninvited?
Police did know about the dog, it should be dealt with before things escalated to the attack.

I feel sorry for the policemen that were hurt - because they will probably be affraid of dogs AND because they must have lost their trust in fellow officers. They realized it was just each men for themself. THAT is VERY SAD about this situation! Being left to fend for yourself when your partners were around...

Policeofficers have the right to come to your home uninvited, to ask for your ID etc. BUT with rights also comes responsibility! Too many people just know about their rights!

Everyone knows that you can get hurt while being employed as a policeofficer, no one says you have to do this job....Tho fellow officers should act responsibly not only towards the general public but also to their partners. In this instance however, they did not do the responsible thing, that is help their partner as soon as possible! So sorry if I think the things weren't handled appropriately and that policeofficrs obviously NEED more training and also some temperament test etc...Afterall not everyone can do everything. I might want to be a singer but if I can't sing that ain't gonna happen. I might want to be a policeofficer but if I am not able to handle strsfull situation than that ain't gonna happen either...

OK, that is my last post in this thread cause I just wanted to make clear that I do feel sorry for the man that got attacked but still I think the situation could have been handled MUCH better!


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## celeste/ROXY (Jun 12, 2011)

Exactly that's was I was trying to say too


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## DoggieBag (Jan 20, 2012)

All the officers did help, that's how 5 got injured, 2 of which seriously.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2012)

anyone defending the dog or it's actions has not been on the *receiving end* of a vicious dog - clearly


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## celeste/ROXY (Jun 12, 2011)

Well actually yes I have. And I still feel it was the owners fault not the dog or the breed.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

celeste/ROXY said:


> Well actually yes I have. And I still feel it was the owners fault not the dog or the breed.


There's one thing here that keeps getting brought up, yourself included. a lot blaming the owner. Now what if that owner actually raised that dog in the apropriate way, the dog was fed the best food, passed training classes with flying colours etc etc, was properly socialised.

Has anyone got any proof this dog was mistreated at all because its all just assumptions flying around????


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## celeste/ROXY (Jun 12, 2011)

In my last post I meant I still blame the owner of the dog that attacked me not the one that was shot


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

celeste/ROXY said:


> In my last post I meant I still blame the owner of the dog that attacked me not the one that was shot


I stand corrected then, sorry  but my question still applies to everyone else who says its the owners fault ....where is your proof?


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

Gopher said:


> anyone defending the dog or it's actions has not been on the *receiving end* of a vicious dog - clearly


Actually i HAVE been on the recieving end of a brutal attack and i am still (to a certain extent) defending the dog! So thats that blown out of the water! :skep:


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

leannelatty said:


> Actually i HAVE been on the recieving end of a brutal attack and i am still (to a certain extent) defending the dog! So thats that blown out of the water! :skep:


Hope you don't mind me asking who do you blame for your attack and why?


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## leannelatty (Aug 14, 2009)

Lavenderb said:


> Hope you don't mind me asking who do you blame for your attack and why?


I blame the owner of the dog for:

1 Allowing his dog off the lead after asking if mine was a girl
2 For (imo) not training the dog correctly
3 for not being able to control his dog off lead
4 Owning an obviously DA dog and not muzzling it

Theres probably more but those are off the top of my head. I also blame myself but i know logically that there was nothing i could do to stop what happened.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

You could logically take the blame away from everyone and everything that kills or maims another being. Why should a bull that kills a person be shot, it is only doing what a bull does. Why should a violent person be punished, he is only attacking someone because he could see a good reason for it.
So of course the dog should not take the blame and should be allowed to carry on attacking


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## celeste/ROXY (Jun 12, 2011)

I don't think anyone has said the dog shouldn't have been shot. But surely it's the person/persons who's actions or lack of actions that should take responsibility for what happened yesterday. We as humans have the logic to understand that if we do something wrong we will be punished. Dogs do not have that ability. Yes of course the dog had to be dealt with after such a horrific attack. But we do not know what led to it do we.


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