# New kitten toilet problem



## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

Hi, my sister has recently got a new girl kitten, who unfortunately according to the vet was only 4 weeks old when taken away from her mother, which is obviously way too young. She was passing a small amount of blood in her urine, & the vet diagnosed her with cystitis, put her on a course of antibiotics which appeared to clear it up. Recently she has been peeing small amounts outside her litter tray, & very occasionally passing blood again, so it appeared the infection may have returned. She has been back to the vet within the past fortnight & was told the cystitis has cleared up, & she may just be incontinent! The thing is she uses her litter tray, & also the back garden, & seems perfectly happy, she's eating ok, & is extremely playful. I just wanted a second opinion really, as I don't think my sister is too keen on paying out on further expensive vet fees.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi there and welcome to the Forum!

I am a bit puzzled as to why the vet would say the kitten may be "incontinent" at this early stage There are several possible reasons why a kitten or cat would pee outside the litter tray and they are nothing to do with incontinence but t do with the kitten making a choice to do so!

That is not to say "incontinence" does not exist in cats -- it does, but usually as a result of a serious injury to the spine or tail e.g. being hit by a car, or having a bad fall. I assume your sister's kitten has not sustained a serious injury to her spine or tail?

As the kitten has already had a urinary tract infection and cystitis the chances are that she still has some residual discomfort. When a cat has discomfort in her/his bladder they associate using the litter tray with pain and they either pee next to it, or they look for a soft surface such as bedding or furniture to pee on. This is typical behaviour in cats who have bladder problems.

The vet says there is no more infection present (the UTI has gone), then we assume it is plain cystitis, i.e. burning in the urethral passage when she pees (or sometimes when she pees).

It is necessary to make the urine more dilute, less concentrated, so it is more comfortable for her to pass. So please advise your sister not to feed the kitten ANY *dry food* at all, as it is dehydrating and the kitten does not have the capacity to drink enough water to keep herself fully hydrated. Her kidneys and bladder will not function properly if she is not fully hydrated.

Basically dry food is an absolute no-no for any cat/kitten with bladder or kidney problems. Even when kitty is better your sister should never feed her dry food again.

So the kitten needs a wet food diet, to which your sister should add a little water every meal. This is because cats are designed to get most of their fluids from their food, and have a low thirst drive.

If your sister can also make some plain chicken broth (cook chicken drumsticks in a panful of water for 1 hour, then cool, skim off fat and discard. Serve the jelly slightly warmed twice a day with meals) and get kitty to drink that so much the better too

Your sister could also look into adding a supplement to kitty's food, such as Cystease or Cystaid, or D-Mannose Waterfall, any of which will help soothe kitty's bladder. (she only needs one of these supplements though) All of them are available on line without a prescription.

Also, I would advise providing extra litter trays -- if kitty is the only cat then 2 or 3 large trays should suffice. Try a covered tray and 2 open trays to see which kitty prefers. I find many kits often prefer covered trays, but with the swing door removed.

Advise your sister to choose a litter which is soft on little paws and easy to dig holes in. Cereal based ones are best - e.g. Cats Best Oko Plus from [email protected] It is not cheap, but is very economical, so saves money in the end.

Cheap litters such as wood pellets are a waste of money as the whole tray gets contaminated by one pee and the entire contents have to be replaced every time. If they are NOT replaced every time then kitty is essentially standing in a cess pit when she pees or poos. Instinctively it would be entirely unnatural behaviour for a cat in the wild to stand in its own pee, as they are fastidiously clean animals by nature.

If after these changes the kit is still having problems, especially if she is passing blood then she needs to go back to the vet, as signs of blood usually means infection, and it may be she needs a different antibiotic, or a longer course, or both.

Did the vet send a urine sample off for culture does your sister know?

Please let us know how things go and whether we can be of any further help?


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks for your help. As far as I'm aware she hasn't sustained any injuries, not since my sister has had her anyway.
I've taken her dry food away from her, as she was eating this as well as wet food, but I'll make sure she doesn't get given this again, although this is difficult as there is another cat(she's about 18 months old), & their feeding areas are close to one anothers & it would mean stopping the other cat's dry food as well, as they typically eat each others food. Three times today I have witnessed her peeing on the tiled kitchen floor close to her food, & on 2 of those occasions she jumped straight in her litter tray afterwards. Whenever she's in the back garden she'll spend at least 10 minutes sitting in various spots assuming the peeing position, but invariably nothing comes out. I'm not sure if the vet sent a urine sample off for culture.
Oh & the litter she has is Tesco lightweight dust litter.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

A cat squatting and trying to pass urine but passing nothing is a very sure sign of cystitis. When the bladder is irritated the cat feels the urge to pee all the time even when the bladder is empty.

Please assure your sister that if the peeing away from the tray was due to incontinence the kitten's behaviour would not follow this pattern. Urinal incontinence is due to the cat/kitten's urethral sphincter muscles being weak, and this is usually due to nerve damage caused by a serious injury to the spine or tail. With "incontinence" the cat is not usually aware he/she is peeing until it is too late, and the cat is likely to be nowhere near the litter tray and then get very upset by what is happening.

There is a very good indication from your clear description of symptoms that the kitten has cystitis still, and I am therefore very surprised at the vet dismissing it as "incontinence" If your sister finds it is not possible to resolve the kitten's bladder problems using the advice I have given, then I strongly recommend her taking advice from a different vet.

With regard to the dry food, it is essential the kitten does not eat any dry food in future. I cannot stress this enough. A cat or kitten who has a tendency to bladder or kidney problems should never be given dry food.

Dry food is also a culprit in other cat illnesses too such as Type II diabetes, and there is also now evidence (from Glasgow University Vet School studies)
that dry food triggers a nasty inflammatory dental disease called gingivostomatitis, which is very painful, and incurable once triggered. So in it is not healthy for the 18 mth old cat to be on dry food either, as it could be the cause of health problems later in life.

Cats do not need to graze all day on dry food. It is healthier for a cat or kitten to have *set* mealtimes so their digestion has time to rest between meals. This is how cats have evolved - to fill their tummies and then rest until they are hungry again.

Could I ask why the cats are fed dry food? Is it for convenience sake? If so, there are autofeeders which can be purchased quite cheaply from Amazon in which wet food can be left in the supplied dishes and the timer set to open at a time of your choice. I used these wonderful inventions for my cats throughout the many years I was out of the house at work from 8 am to 6 pm.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Petmate-C20...8655332&sr=8-3&keywords=auto+feeders+for+cats

If the cats are fed dry food because it is inexpensive, then I promise you there are several good quality inexpensive wet foods available if you order online. Many of the forum members already do this.

For the kitten:

Animonda Carny Kitten 6 x 200g: Great Deals on Animonda Canned Cat Food at zooplus

or

Smilla Kitten 6 x 200g | Free P+P on orders £25+ at zooplus!

or

Animonda Rafine Wet Cat Food Pouches available at zooplus!: Animonda Rafiné Soupé Kitten Saver Pack 20 x 100g

(my 4 mth old kittens love this one)

Any of these will be better value and better quality than supermarket kitten wet food. Note shipping is free if your order over £25 worth.

For the 18 mth old cat there are wonderful bargains to be had in wet food:

e.g.

Bozita Canned Food 6 x 410g: Great Deals on Bozita Cat Food at zooplus

or

Animonda Cat Food deals at zooplus: Mixed Savings pack Animonda Carny Adult 12 x 400g

or

Limited Edition: Smilla Poultry Pots 6 x 400 g. Free P&P on orders £25+ at zooplus!

The Happy Kitty Company also does some great foods too:

MAC's Duck, Turkey & Chicken 400g | The Happy Kitty Company

Om Nom Nom Chicken 400g | The Happy Kitty Company

These are just some examples of foods that I know work well, and cats like.


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

Well I think the main reason for giving them dry food is as you say so they have food available all the time, so maybe a pet feeder wouldn't be a bad idea.
She usually lets out a little angry sounding yelp before she pees on the sofa/carpet/kitchen floor/a person, so it is sounding like she still has cystitis. Maybe another expensive trip to the vet is on the cards :-(


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Yes, the yelp will be because of pain, poor little mite. The vet needs to prescribe her some pain relief, maybe an anti-inflammatory. Also needs to get a urine sample and send it to the lab for culture to ensure there is no infection present still as he seems to think. If your sister is not given this kind of support and understanding from her vet I recommend her seeing a different vet toute suite.

Once the inflammation has been treated it is perfectly possible to keep cystitis at bay with diet (no dry food) and using Cystease, or D-Mannose Waterfall supplements, as well as keeping fluid intake high. Then repeat trips to the vet won't needed. But for now, the little one's pain and discomfort need medicine.


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

A new one today, after eating her wet food, & after "burying it" for later, she did a very small pee next to her bowl, almost as if she was scent marking it.
Sigh.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Has the vet seen her again? 

Did you try Cystease, or D-Mannose for her yet?


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

Right, she's not been back to the vet yet, but when the kitten was there recently for her jabs & to be chipped, the vet checked her all over, & naturally she didn't pee whilst there, she basically said she has a very tiny bladder(I thought all kittens did, so nothing unusual there), but she wants a sample of her urine for culture, so I think my sister is to drop that in sometime this week. She's off the dry food totally now(I hope), so we'll see what the results of the urine analysis brings.


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

Also, they're trying to get hold of some Cystease, is it available in pet shops do you know?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I have never seen it on sale in pet shops. Loads of places on line sell it including Amazon. If they don't have internet access maybe you could be a Good Samaritan and buy them some online?


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

It's definitely ok for kittens?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Sorry Greig, I had temporarily forgotten the kitten is still very young. Is she about 6 weeks old by now?

No, I would not give Cystease or Cystaid to such a young kitten. The main thing with treating the cystitis is to *increase the fluid intake as much as possible* so the kitten's urine is more dilute and easier to pass. This means *NO DRY FOOD AT ALL*, just wet food with a little water added to it. Is your sister keeping to this ?

Also, she should give the kitten extra fluids in the form of homemade plain chicken broths (Method: cover chicken drumsticks with water in pan, cover with lid and bring to boil. Reduce heat, simmer for hour and a quarter keeping water level topped up from the kettle if necessary. Drain off fluid, cool, refrigerate overnight, skim off fat and discard. Feed a saucer of warmed chicken broth to the kitten at least twice a day).

Also, there is TopLife Kitten Milk, sold in Tesco. It's made from goats milk, so is usually much better tolerated by cats than cows milk, as it doesn't contain the casein that cows milk contains. She could try giving the kitten a couple of teaspoons, warmed slightly, added to a teaspoon of water. 
BUT she needs to monitor closely next day for loose poo, and if there are signs then stop giving the Kitten Milk immediately.

As the cystitis is probably stress related because the little mite was taken from her mother far too young, then your sister could give her Zylkene, which is safe for kittens. It is a supplement which calms anxiety. Available from the vets or on line :

Zylkene Capsules - Priced Per Tablet - 75mg - Animed Direct

Tell her to give only *HALF a 75 mg capsule* a day. Open the capsule and divide the powder in two. Mix well into the kitten's food. Its effect is very gentle so she needs to give it for a few weeks to notice any change.

Would it be possible to have some feedback from your sister as to whether any of this advice is helping? Many thanks.


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

She's cut out the dry food completely for both cats, she's not tried her on the chicken broths yet though.
We should know more when the urine sample has been analysed. Also, I have given her the link for the Zylkene capsules.
I'll keep you up to date.
Thanks again for all your help.


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

They now think she has piles, although she doesn't seem to be in any discomfort.
They're taking her back to the vet tomorrow. It seems to be one thing after another.
Oh, & I think she is around 10 weeks old now.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

If she has piles it will be due to straining to defecate when she had constipation. Again this will have been caused by her eating dry food -- it is a well-known side effect especially with kittens. They rarely drink enough to keep themselves hydrated on a dry food diet. 

Lots of fluid, wet food and fibre in her diet will help. 

Thanks for letting me know she is 10 wks old now


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

Not good news I'm afraid, back to the vets this morning, turns out she has a prolapsed bowel, probably due to the straining. She's being operated on today, & there's no guarantee it'll be successful.
So fingers crossed for her, poor thing.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Sorry to hear this bad news -- poor little mite I do hope she recovers.


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

The op went ok, she's going back on Friday to have her stitches removed, the vet put her on Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal wet food.
Apparently her peeing problem may be caused by urine somehow bypassing her bladder, they're unsure so may have to x-ray her.
I've just seen her & she is in good spirits, obviously not as lively as normal, but I watched her jump on to the sofa, squat & do a little pee, she then climbed on to the coffee table & did another small pee. She then ran into her litter tray & tried to pee again! I'm wondering if she's peeing in the areas that smell of pee(which are quite a few), if this is the case then it's going to be nearly impossible to prevent, as she's had these little "accidents" in most areas of the house.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

A good clean round the house with a solution of Biotex followed by a wipe with Surgical Spirit will get rid of the smell on all hard surfaces where she might have peed. On carpeted areas use the same method, but may need to give repeat 'treatments'. Soiled rugs and soft furnishings are best sent to the Dry Cleaners.

Very pleased to hear she has come thru the op OK!  If her bowel is functioning better, as hopefully it will be from now on, it might just resolve the peeing issues as well.


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

Another trip to the vets today, as she was having difficulty passing solids last night, although eventually she managed to go, & was also sick. They removed the stitch & put a cone on her. They also gave her a steroid & a kitty laxative, & she has "been" since she's been home. The vet has said that her bowel seems to be where it should be, & she has to go back again tomorrow.
Btw I got her age wrong, she was born in mid June so is 14 weeks old.
Another thing, the older cat is avoiding her & hissing at her whenever she sees her, I'm wondering if this is because she smells of the vet, or if she's upset that she's unwell, any ideas?
I've attached a little pic of her from today.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

aww little sweetheart , glad she s on the mend, the other cat probably dosent like the strange cone, and yes the smell of the vets as well


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

An update, her bowel operation seems to have done the trick as far as that area is concerned, but her peeing problem has worsened. She's even peeing in her sleep, & the amount of pee has increased, there's barely an area in the house where she hasn't peed. The vet's opinion is she may need an x-ray to diagnose the problem, which will obviously be very pricey. Such a shame as she's a lovely girl, & obviously doesn't think she's doing any wrong, it seems she may have a very rare case of incontinence.
Apologies for overusing the word pee.

Here she is earlier today.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

The urinating problem may have worsened temporarily due to the operation on her bowel causing localised inflammation or even temporary nerve damage. It may be worth waiting to see how she is in a few weeks time when things have settled down a bit from the op, before considering an x-ray. Unless the vet considers she could be in pain which would require an urgent diagnosis. 

Also chronic cystitis can be linked to bowel problems such as prolapse. So again it is worth waiting to see how things are with the bladder now the bowel has been repaired. 

Advise your sister to put Vet Bed in the kitty's bed and then newspaper under that and a plastic sheet under that. Vet Bed is magic stuff as the urine will go straight through to the newspapers underneath, leaving kitty nice and dry on the dry Vet Bed. The soiled newspapers can be binned every day and the plastic sheet washed or wiped. The Vet Bed can be machine washed on a wool cycle. 

Vet Bed can be bought from pet stores such as [email protected] or on line from Amazon or ebay.


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

She doesn't seem to be in any pain, so they'll probably wait a few weeks to see if the urinating problem settles down. The thing is she's peeing in various places, not just in her bed, occasionally if she's picked up she'll even do it mid air, so I'm not sure whether it would be worthwhile investing in the Vet Bed.


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

She's an utterly adorable little darling!!!!:001_wub::001_wub::001_wub:

I do think you need to give her a bit of time to get over her bowel issues as these things can be connected, and it might be that she's peeing involuntarily at the mo.

I don't know if it's worth even considering but my sister has an elderly Westie with Cushing's, who has become prone to peeing wherever she is and who has meds to stabilise it (with which she's well-managed). I understand cats can suffer form the disease as well, so it may well be worth exploring further medical reasons for her incontinence if retraining doesn't do the trick.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

GreignotGrieg said:


> > I'm not sure whether it would be worthwhile investing in the Vet Bed.
> 
> 
> I do think it's horrible for a cat/kitten to have to lie in its own wee, when it is incontinent in its sleep. The fur gets all wet and smelly and the kitten could get chilled if it is a cold night.
> ...


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

I thought I'd update you all on the progress of the little one as it's been a while.
Her problem cleared up for several months, but recently she's started peeing outside her litter tray again. She even peed on my Step Mum's head while she was asleep. I'm wondering if she does it when she's spooked by something, ie a loud noise?
Another theory is she hasn't been spayed yet (booked in for next week), & she's marking her territory.
Has anyone experienced this, & does spaying usually put a stop to the peeing outside the box?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Surely the kitten must be about 8 or 9 mths old by now, so well past the age when she can be spayed. Peeing away from the litter box could certainly be due to scent-marking territorial behaviour, more common in entire females (and males) and it may well be resolved by having her spayed.

In any case it is unkind to leave her to keep coming into heat constantly. Hopefully she is being kept safely indoors so there is no chance of her getting pregnant! The very LAST thing the owners would want, in view of her young age and the health issues she has had, would be for her to become pregnant! 

I'd advise them to book her in without further delay to be spayed. Then give it a few weeks to see if the toiletting problems are resolved.

I trust they are keeping her well hydrated on a 100% wet food diet, with *absolutely no dry food at all*. Are they adding a little water each meal. This is vital in view not only of her history of bowel problems, but also the weeing issue too. If they are giving her ANY dry food at all (even treats) they are asking for trouble I am afraid.

Peeing outside the box might happen if the cat was regularly in a state of stress, from perhaps being bullied by another cat in the house, or a dog, or a even a child. Or if there was continuous noise and disruption from e.g. building work being done on the house, so kitty was afraid to use her litter boxes.

If there is a risk kitty is being bullied the culprit needs to be identified and the problem addressing.

If there is constant daytime noise and disruption in the home at present kitty needs containing in a quiet room whilst the noise is going on, with her litter tray, food and water. There she will feel less threatened or anxious.

To help her cope with any current stress in the home (if there is any I mean) advise them to give her a course of Zylkene, a supplement which calms anxious cats. Open the capsule and mix the powder with food. Cats like it. Give for a few weeks daily to see benefit. It does work.

Zylkene Capsules - Priced Per Capsule - 75mg - Animed Direct


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

She's booked in to be spayed tomorrow, & as far as I'm aware she has no dry food at all now. Unfortunately she has been out, but she never ventures far, so fingers crossed she isn't pregnant, as I can't see her surviving a pregnancy with what she's been through.
As if her being spayed tomorrow wasn't stressful enough, her 2 year old "sister" went out Saturday night & hasn't returned, this is the longest she's been away from home, so it's extremely worrying. Naturally she's moping around looking for her, so sad to see


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

Well she had her op yesterday, & there was a slight complication.
Apparently her uterus wasn't "normal", as they have 2 uterine horns, they found 1 horn & removed the ovary, but couldn't find the other one.
When they did they found out it was attached to her bladder.
This could possibly be the reason for her peeing problem.
Poor thing has been through so much, & her sister is still missing :scared:


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

oh no, so sorry poor girl , hopefully she will recover without any complications now , i hope her sister turns up soon , have you checked the local rescues , is she chipped ?


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

She is microchipped yes, & we've checked the local branch of the Pdsa, put up posters & distributed flyers.
I've also registered her as missing on gumtree & this site Found a cat? Lost a dog? Pets Located proactively matches lost and found cats, dogs, rabbits, hamsters, parrots and other pets with their owners.
May try setting up a kitty buffet tonight, & leave a blanket that smells of home near to where she went missing.
I'm hoping she's in "survival mode", & isn't far away as she rarely ventures too far.
She went missing on Saturday 19th April, so it hasn't been too long, there's still hope.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Just read this from the start, poor baby :sad:
Is the sister that has ran away spayed? If not she may never come home.
Also I was shocked to read that this little kitten was out in the garden at 4 weeks old?!
It may be completely unrelated to her current health issues but this poor little girl had little chance of a healthy life from day one, sorry to say.
I do hope she fully recovers from her op and her health improves as she reaches adulthood.


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## GreignotGrieg (Sep 7, 2013)

Hi, the girl cat who has disappeared is spayed yes, so I can't believe she's gone far.
As for the little one, she was taken away from her mother way too early at 4 weeks (although wasn't in the garden at this stage) which may be why she's had these health issues.
Touch wood she seems to be recovering ok, been a lot more like her old self the past couple of days.
I just wish her sister would come home, it's been over a week now.


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