# How long should a cat be starved before an operation



## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

Our cats are going to be spayed/neutered at Manor Vets tomorrow. They are booked in at 9:30am. 

I’ve just realised that they need to be starved, but I don’t know how long for. I phoned up the out of hours number and got told the cats could drink until the morning but they should not be fed from 8pm tonight! 

This seems like an awfully long time to go without food. They are nearly 18 weeks old.

Does this seem right? I’m sure humans only have to be starved for around 5 hours, not 13.5.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Do as the vet says. Kittens are not people, great you are getting the neutered


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I will do, I guess I just feel really guilty because I know they will be starving in the morning ☹ I will be glad when it’s all over.


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

I found the fasting the hardest part, too. 
The way my girls looked at me was tough.
Hope you get through the night okay and all goes well tomorrow with the op.


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I don’t think I am going to enjoy tomorrow at all but once it’s done it’s one less thing to worry about.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Beautiful Storm - my vet's rule is 11 pm for a cat's or kitten's last meal before having a GA next day. But different vets have different rules. My vet does not start the surgery cases until 11 am at the earliest. Your vet may start them earlier perhaps...


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

My vets say midnight, I assume vets vary according to which anesthetic they use?


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I’m feeling like a very horrible person right now. I do hope the vet starts doing the operations earlier, I will be so glad when it’s all over.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Kittens should not be starved for that long, their blood sugar drops dangerously low. Midnight or 1am would have been fine but most ENS vets would say they can eat overnight


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I agree @Rufus15, it seems like an awfully long time. However I really can't see an alternative now. I fed them their wet food at 7pm and they have dry food down all the time, they ate right up until 8pm before I removed it.

When I phoned the vets I expected them to say something like they can eat up until 3 or 4am, but it's been 14 years since I last took a cat to be spayed (or any operation), so I have no idea how things work


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Beautiful Storm said:


> I agree @Rufus15, it seems like an awfully long time. However I really can't see an alternative now. I fed them their wet food at 7pm and they have dry food down all the time, they ate right up until 8pm before I removed it.
> 
> When I phoned the vets I expected them to say something like they can eat up until 3 or 4am, but it's been 14 years since I last took a cat to be spayed (or any operation), so I have no idea how things work


For early spay and neutering, they're usually allowed to eat right up to 7am on the day of the op and the vet uses controlled vomiting during the procedure as it's a much safer option.

I would take in some of their own food for them to have post-op so you know they will definitely eat when they come round


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I will take some food with them. I feel so, so rotten at the moment. I have left the water in with them but am going to remove it now. I am also going to get to the vets early to see if they can start things earlier, you never know.


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

Hope all goes well today.

H x


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## vivien (Jul 20, 2009)

I hope everything goes well today. 
Viv xx


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Also wishing you well today! X


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

Thank you for the good wishes everyone, unfortunately it has not gone quite according to plan, the cats were just booked in for a pre-op today 

The good news is that the vet is happy with them both and they are putting on weight nicely. Kitties are both now home, have eaten a big plate of food and are looking quite relaxed (although all bits are still unfortunately still attached). They meowed loudly at me all the way to the vets to tell me how unhappy they were about the situation 

Mika (boy kitty) has been booked in for his op tomorrow, so we have to go all through this again with him :Arghh, they couldn’t fit Enya in as well unfortunately. 

Enya (girl kitty) has been booked in for the 23rd of March as I have the week off work, so I can keep an eye on her afterwards.

This is not how I wanted it to be, I booked them in for what I thought was the operations around a month before we even had them because I wanted to make sure it was done ASAP, but such is life. I will be keeping a close eye on them as I am aware that boy cats are still fertile for a few months following their procedure.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Beautiful Storm said:


> unfortunately it has not gone quite according to plan, the cats were just booked in for a pre-op today


Goodness how annoying! 12 hours is standard fasting time before surgery and anesthesia. It is very important to ensure there is no food in the stomach at all. If they regurgitated food during surgery it would be a disaster.

As you inadvertently had a rehearsal now, you know they will be okay. It's unfortunate now you will have to fast each kitten separately. So the girl will not be able to be fed until you get home from dropping him off, and the same again in a few weeks!

One thing I have always found helpful. I never feed the cats when I first get up, it's always a half hour or an hour even after I am up in the morning. This makes fasting mornings a bit easier because they aren't expecting a meal right away anyway.


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I must say it has all been rather stressful, but at least we are making steps in the right direction. After the 23rd we will finally be able to enjoy them as the pampered pets they are supposed to be instead of watching their every move looking for signs that they are approaching or have reached sexual maturity.

Thanks for the tip on feeding @lorilu I will certainly give it a try... although after the 23rd hopefully there won't be any anaesthetics for a very, very long time!


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Beautiful Storm said:


> I must say it has all been rather stressful, but at least we are making steps in the right direction. After the 23rd we will finally be able to enjoy them as the pampered pets they are supposed to be instead of watching their every move looking for signs that they are approaching or have reached sexual maturity.
> 
> Thanks for the tip on feeding @lorilu I will certainly give it a try... although after the 23rd hopefully there won't be any anaesthetics for a very, very long time!


Yes, and it's likely there won't. But there are other reasons for the delayed feeding in the morning. They won't associate you getting out of bed with meal times. That means no pounding on you with claws out, or licking your eyelids, or sticking whiskers up your nostrils on a morning you want to sleep in.


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

All very good reasons


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

lorilu said:


> Goodness how annoying! 12 hours is standard fasting time before surgery and anesthesia. It is very important to ensure there is no food in the stomach at all. If they regurgitated food during surgery it would be a disaster.
> 
> As you inadvertently had a rehearsal now, you know they will be okay. It's unfortunate now you will have to fast each kitten separately. So the girl will not be able to be fed until you get home from dropping him off, and the same again in a few weeks!
> 
> One thing I have always found helpful. I never feed the cats when I first get up, it's always a half hour or an hour even after I am up in the morning. This makes fasting mornings a bit easier because they aren't expecting a meal right away anyway.


Controlled vomiting is far, far safer than leaving 18 week old kittens for hungry for over 12 hours. Their blood sugar levels drop dangerously low and they are at extremely high risk of acid reflux with being starved for so long.

4 hours fast is sufficient, 6 at the very most, for such young kittens


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Beautiful Storm - as lorilu said, 12 hours is the usual length of time for fasting a cat before a GA.

The fact that vets usually want the cats admitted at around 8 am or 9 am on the morning of the neutering ops does not mean that is when they will be operated on. IME most vet practices start the routine surgical procedures (e.g. neutering) after the usual morning clinics. This means a start on the surgical procedures at around 11 am or 12 pm. It would also depend on where your kittens were in the list. e.g. they may not be operated on until 1 pm.

I suppose this may be different in a large vet practice where there are enough vets working so that some can start non-urgent ops from 9 am. But most vet practices in the UK are fairly small e.g a max of say 8 or 9 vets and not all on duty at the same time. A veterinary hospital might of course be different.

But you can see that if the routine ops are not started until 11 am or 12 pm then you could safely feed your kittens up to 11 pm the previous night and still have them fasting for 12 hours.

You can always ask your vet what time of day the routine surgeries always start, without mentioning anything about fasting.


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I spoke to the vet nurse about fasting, she said they advised from 8pm with 10pm being the absolute latest they would accept.

I don’t know if it makes a difference but the kittens are quite good weights (I think) with the boy being 3kg and the girl 2.5kg.

I have done a lot of rearranging now and have got Enya booked in for her spay on Friday. I know this makes no difference to the fasting but I will feel much better when they are both fixed.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

That's really backwards advice, it's far too long to starve a kitten


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I have read plenty of times on this forum about the backwards advice given by some vets (especially when it comes to early neutering) so I can’t say I’m really surprised


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

The kittens will (or should) have an IV line for fluids during and for a while after the procedure, which will keep their systems in working order safely.. a 12 hour fast should be fine. Ask your vet if that's part of the procedure and it it isn't, request it. 12 hours is standard fasting for general anesthesia. They are almost 5 months old, babies yes, but not infants.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

The "forum vet" has previously said 4 hours for kittens, which is similar to what my vets does. We feed ours early in the morning and surgery is done first thing. 

Young kittens shouldn't be fasted for too long as their blood sugars drop. Our vet doesn't do 12 hours for adults following newer guidelines. 
No controlled vomiting either.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Surely if the vet has specified a starvation interval that should be adhered to.
The vet will be performing this type of surgery daily and I know 12hours without food pre-op is pretty standard advice.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

While veterinary advice varies on fasting time it should be noted that the members here *are not vets *and their advice must be tempered with that from your own vet.


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I am going to follow the advice of the vet (well the vet nurses) even if I don’t necessarily agree with it. 

The vet nurse said the absolute latest I should feed is 10pm so I’m going to feed the kittens their tea now, then another meal again at 10.

Thank you everyone for your input, it has been very much appreciated.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Sounds a good plan to me @Beautiful Storm.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

lorilu said:


> The kittens will (or should) have an IV line for fluids during and for a while after the procedure, which will keep their systems in working order safely.


This is not standard in the UK, and has to be specifically requested at drop off. I have been requesting IV fluids on my cat's whenever they have a GA for over 30 years!
Vets differ, but ESN vets definitely go for 7am the morning of the op to take away food, only adults are starved overnight.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Tigermoon said:


> This is not standard in the UK, and has to be specifically requested at drop off. I have been requesting IV fluids on my cat's whenever they have a GA for over 30 years!
> V.


Yes, as I said.  :



lorilu said:


> The kittens will (or should) have an IV line for fluids during and for a while after the procedure, which will keep their systems in working order safely.. a 12 hour fast should be fine.* Ask your vet if that's part of the procedure and it it isn't, request it.* 12 hours is standard fasting for general anesthesia. They are almost 5 months old, babies yes, but not infants.


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

Mika is now at the vets, fingers crossed that everything goes well despite the length of time he was starved for. He certainly had the energy to let me know how annoyed he was the entire journey to the vets - it is true bengals like to talk and they talk loudly.

Now Enya is shouting the house down for her brother. We will both be very pleased when Mika is home. Hopefully the post vet reunion won’t be too traumatic for Enya with Mika’s temporary vet smell.


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I'm filling in as playmate while her brother is at the vet. It's a tough job but somebody has to do it :Shamefullyembarrased


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

As spotty cats commented, our forum vet Ceiling Kitty said in the past that 4 hours is nowadays the usual time for fasting a kitten under 4 months old prior to having a general anaesthetic.

These are the general guidelines my own vet is currently using:

Food restrictions should vary by age because kittens could experience a dangerous drop in blood sugar levels if they go without food too long.

For cats younger than 4 months old, food should be withheld *starting about 4 hours before the spay surgery is due to begin. *

Cats more than 4 months old should not eat overnight before surgery. For some vets this means removing their food at midnight, other vets recommend 9 p.m, others will advise you stopping the food when you go to bed. The difference in recommended times often depends on the time the cat's surgery is scheduled for.

Water should be withheld on the morning of the surgery for all ages of cats and kittens, unless otherwise recommended by your vet.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Obviously different vets have their own protocols. 
I think in future anyone questioning the pre-anaesthesia starvation interval needs to be referred back to their own vet as they hold the responsibility.
Conflicting advice is not helpful.


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

I would always follow the advice of the vet, I was just a bit shocked at the Starvation length but am very inexperienced with such things so who knows. It is interesting that there are so many different opinions out there, but I guess this is often the case.

Just had a phone call from the vets to say Mika is awake and doing well. I am picking him up at 15:30. 

Thank you all for taking the time to comment. Now I’ve just got to get though Friday when Enya goes for her Spay...


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Beautiful Storm said:


> I would always follow the advice of the vet, I was just a bit shocked at the Starvation length but am very inexperienced with such things so who knows. It is interesting that there are so many different opinions out there, but I guess this is often the case.
> 
> Just had a phone call from the vets to say Mika is awake and doing well. I am picking him up at 15:30.
> 
> Thank you all for taking the time to comment. Now I've just got to get though Friday when Enya goes for her Spay...


Glad it has all gone so well for Mika , be prepared for a kitten who is most likely totally unaware that anything has happened and is ready to eat his weight in food


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SusieRainbow said:


> I think in future anyone questioning the pre-anaesthesia starvation interval needs to be referred back to their own vet as they hold the responsibility.
> Conflicting advice is not helpful.


I was just reading through this thread thinking exactly this.

There seems to be a trend lately to tell posters their vet is wrong, to ignore their vet, and similar comments. I really think we need to be _extremely_ cautious with this sort of thing. 
The vet is the one who has actually laid hands on the animal, has all the relevant records, test results, and hello - the actual training and education to diagnose and treat. 
Often owners don't hear instructions correctly, or don't relay information accurately. It's always better to have owners go back and check with the vet if the information seems totally off.

Perhaps we need to have a 'rule' or some sort of guidance from the mods about contradicting veterinary advice?

In this particular case, a healthy 2.5kg or 3kg kitten is perfectly big enough to handle a 12 hour fast (it's not starving, just fasting) without issue. And much better to bring in a fasted kitten who's not going to have complications from aspiration.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Rufus15 said:


> Controlled vomiting
> <snip>


I racked my brains as to how vomiting could be controlled, until it occurred to me that the consequences could, by using an ET tube with a cuff. It is passed down the throat until the cuff is below the oesophagus, then the cuff is inflated. This forms a seal around the tube and stops both any regurgitated stomach contents, or mouth / nose secretions, from getting into the lungs. If you are not sure what these tubes look like or how they work, Google will help.

However, even with a cuffed ET tube, cats (and humans) are still fasted before surgery.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> I was just reading through this thread thinking exactly this.
> 
> There seems to be a trend lately to tell posters their vet is wrong, to ignore their vet, and similar comments.
> <snip>


And this is at least in part why our wonderful forum vet eventually packed it in. Our lose.


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## Beautiful Storm (Feb 26, 2020)

@buffie, I hope so


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Beautiful Storm said:


> @buffie, I hope so


I'm sure he will be fine, my lad came home ,had a quick rummage in the underwear department , didn't notice anything was missing (intelligent but not much common sense) stuffed his face then knocked ten bells out of his toys before crashing out and sleeping until the next day


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## Maurey (Nov 18, 2019)

My girl was spayed while she was still with the breeder, as she was 8 months by the time I brought her home. She was a bit grumpy at having to wear the spay smock for a week, but she was back to normal, and eating well by the time she'd fully recovered from the anaesthetic c:


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

A bit of relevant reading. A good vet is worth their weight in gold, so choose wisely. 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAPegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw0TqcQ77EN5qb68KE9AKXzZ


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> I was just reading through this thread thinking exactly this.
> 
> There seems to be a trend lately to tell posters their vet is wrong, to ignore their vet, and similar comments. I really think we need to be _extremely_ cautious with this sort of thing.
> The vet is the one who has actually laid hands on the animal, has all the relevant records, test results, and hello - the actual training and education to diagnose and treat.
> ...


I have been saying exactly this, ,
loudly since being appointed moderator. Any 'vet bashing ' is not tolerated by any of us - issues are between vet and client .
What sort of guidance would you like to see @O2.0 ?


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

SusieRainbow said:


> I have been saying exactly this, ,
> loudly since being appointed moderator. Any 'vet bashing ' is not tolerated by any of us - issues are between vet and client .
> What sort of guidance would you like to see @O2.0 ?


Yes and you said it on this thread but appeared to be ignored, I think it just always need to said to refer back to the Vets, I don't know if people realise if they are not sure or forget what the vet tells them then they can give them a call and discuss it, I lost the bit of paper about Hilde being starved before her dental so I phoned the vets and they told me the routine which is what I thought but just wanted to double check.

I think the thread recently in Dog Chat was getting very out of hand when people were questioning the dogs treatment by specialists and thought they knew better, from the small snippets the worried owner was relaying, I thought poster were going to take up flaming torches and pitchforks and march on the animal hospital to tell them they were all wrong.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

SusieRainbow said:


> I have been saying exactly this, ,
> loudly since being appointed moderator. Any 'vet bashing ' is not tolerated by any of us - issues are between vet and client .
> What sort of guidance would you like to see @O2.0 ?


I don't mean vet "bashing" but rather directly contradicting specific instructions given by the vet. Which has happened several times on this thread alone. Even _after_ you and Lymorelyn spoke up both reiterating that members are not vets and to follow vet's advice.

It's confusing at best and could be downright dangerous.

I don't know what guidance or rules or what needs to be done, it's just a trend I've noticed of late and felt the need to speak up about it.

Sorry @Beautiful Storm didn't mean to hijack your thread with this, I'll leave it now. I hope all goes well


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I would raise the point that we have a number of breeders on here that have experience in ENS (which is largely what this is, a 5 month old is still a kitten, not an adult cat) and, whether forum members like it or not, UK veterinary practices are woefully behind the rest of the world.

I see a number of members market themselves, backed up by others, as experts who dole out advice with impunity, some of which can be damaged.

I find it peculiar, then, that those posters who are posting with knowledge and for the benefit of the cat or kittens in question are to be censored for giving "dangerous" advice


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

@Rufus15 you are not a veterinarian. You should not be giving out veterinary advice or contradicting veterinary advice. 
What you advise your kitten buyers is completely up to you, but forum members are not your buyers, you are not familiar with their kittens, their kittens' veterinary records, or previous treatments. 
It is fine to say "my vet does this" but to contradict perfectly reasonable veterinary procedures is not okay.

And now I *really* don't want to continue derailing this thread. I'm very sorry @Beautiful Storm


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Let's have no more discussion of vet's practices on this thread please. There will be a new sticky posted shortly.


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