# Is my fish dying?



## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Hi, I'm new to all this stuff but really worried about my fish, well yesterday I brought 2 black moors fishes, well noticed a few hours later and still the same today that one of them have got this clear fuzzy looking coating/string all over it and it keeps going to the bottom of the tank and just lying there, I don't understand whats wrong, I've read some forums and people are saying it could be stress or its dying...


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Another picture, looks like bubbles


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi @SamanthaJ and welcome 

Bless he doesn't look well at all. A few questions first...

Does the tank have a filter?
How long has the tank been set up & was it cycled with a source of ammonia before you added the fish?
What size is the tank?
Did you treat the water with a dechlorinator?
Do you have a test kit or have you had the water tested, and if so what were the results?

It looks like it might be excess slime coat, which would probably be a result of poor water quality. If you can answer the above questions that would really help pin down the problem though.


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Hi, hanks for getting back.
Yes, it has a fluval u2 filter, the tank had been set up 3 days before hand as this is what pets at home recommend and I'm afraid we didn't actually treat the water it was just talking water, it had been cycled, we used tap water untreated as we know a few people with fish who have never treated their water and their fish have been brill, my fish tank is 64 litres, when we first saw this on the fish we did then add tap safe to our water and a stress coat medication to the water. No I haven't tested the water unfortunately yet, I am going to be buying one tomorrow though, I kept thinking could it be a fungal infection as my other black moors has got it too but not as bad but he is swimming around all the time


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Your fish looks very poorly and whilst I cannot be certain appears to have a severe case of whitespot (though could be patchy slime coat too).

Where did you buy the fish from ? If you bought this fish yesterday it was already very ill when you bought it. If you are in the UK most shops will sell their fish with a livestock guarantee and will reimburse of replace a sick fish.

To be honest they should not have sold you a fish in this condition (it also looks emaciated but that might just be who it is lying).

Unfortunately it is likely the fish will die given how I'll it is but you can try to save it. I would still contact the shop and tell them they have sold you a very sick fish.

Firstly water quality. Does your tank come with a filter ? Did you do a fishless cycle of the filter before buying the fish or have you just added the fish a few days after getting the tank ? How big is the tank. Did you use dechlorinator to remove toxins from your tap water before adding it to the tank ? Do you have a water test kit to measure for ammonia and nitrites (I liquid one is most accurate) ?

Apologies for all the questions but your answers will give some idea of how we can help. (Cross posted with your post op)

You will need to test the water and check for ammonia and nitrite. Both of these are highly toxic and should be zero. Any trace can make your sick fish more ill. If you haven't done a fishless cycle or there is any trace of ammonia or nitrite (paper test kits can give false readings and say zero when they are present) please get some seachem prime or api ammo lock to remove the ammonia / nitrite.

If it does turn out to be white spot get some white spot treatment (not from the same place that sold you the fish - one buy from them again). Interpet are a reputable brand. Dose according to instructions. Check your other fish for tiny white dots also. If it isn't then melafix is a good supporting once to use.

Whiteout is a parasite which is very difficult to get rid if as some of its life stages are resistant to treatment so treatment must be followed to the letter.

If you didn't do a full fishless cycle on your filter you will also need to get the filter bacteria population to grow. I will post how to do this if you confirm what the situation is with your filter.

I hope you manage to save the fish but I don't hold out much hope unfortunately. 

@NaomiM @danielled tagged for your help too.

Edited to add. I would contact PAH and let them know the situation.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

SamanthaJ said:


> Hi, hanks for getting back.
> Yes, it has a fluval u2 filter, the tank had been set up 3 days before hand as this is what pets at home recommend and I'm afraid we didn't actually treat the water it was just talking water, it had been cycled, we used tap water untreated as we know a few people with fish who have never treated their water and their fish have been brill, my fish tank is 64 litres, when we first saw this on the fish we did then add tap safe to our water and a stress coat medication to the water. No I haven't tested the water unfortunately yet, I am going to be buying one tomorrow though, I kept thinking could it be a fungal infection as my other black moors has got it too but not as bad but he is swimming around all the time


Ok, terrible advice from Pets at Home as usual! A tank needs to be cycled with ammonia before adding fish, and to complete a full cycle usually takes 4-6 weeks. This is to ensure that there is enough good bacteria grown in your filter to deal with the waste that the fish produce. Your tank is not cycled at all unfortunately, which means that your fish are being exposed to their own waste which is very toxic to them. Also, all water must be treated with a dechlorinator as the chloramine in tap water is also very harmful to fish.

When you buy a test kit, make sure it is a liquid one as the test strips are usually inaccurate. You will need to do large, daily water changes to keep the levels of ammonia & nitrite down, making sure to treat the water first and make sure it is the same temperature.


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Hi, I have added the information in the post above, thank you for getting back


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Okay thanks, in the water changes do I keep adding the stress coat and tap safe to it?


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

@kittih, the OP described it as a fuzzy coating all over, I didn't think it sounded like whitespot? The pictures are a little unclear, @SamanthaJ does it look like little dots, almost like sand or salt?


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

SamanthaJ said:


> Okay thanks, in the water changes do I keep adding the stress coat and tap safe to it?


I think they are both dechlorinators, so either one is fine, though the one mentioned above by @kittih (Prime) would be better if you can get that instead as it detoxifies ammonia & nitrite. It also works out much cheaper as you only have to use a tiny amount.

I should also mention that your tank is not big enough for two blackmoors long-term, the recommended size for any fancy goldfish is 75 litres per fish as they do grow very large.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Just seen you say the other fish has fungus. It could be a slime coat reaction. Almost certainly poor water quality will be exacerbating the problem. The filter takes 4 to 6 weeks to cycle to grow sufficient bacteria to break down fish waste. Certainly leaving the filter for 3 days before adding fish will have done nothing except wet the filter. You have been given extremely outdated and incorrect advice unfortunately. In the olden days when chlorine was used by water companies to kill bugs leaving the water to stand for 3 days allowed it to evaporate off. Water companies use chloramines now which is stable and will remain in the water indefinitely without dechlorinator. This does nothing to allow the bacteria to grow.

Google fishless cycling and the nitrogen cycle in the aquarium for an understanding of how the process works.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2018)

magpie said:


> @kittih, the OP described it as a fuzzy coating all over, I didn't think it sounded like whitespot? The pictures are a little unclear, @SamanthaJ does it look like little dots, almost like sand or salt?


No, whitespit/ich looks nothing like this. That comes from somebody whose first guppies were killed by ich ie me. As you say though pics are a bit unclear.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

danielled said:


> No, whitespit/ich looks nothing like this. That comes from somebody whose first guppies were killed by ich ie me. As you say though pics are a bit unclear.


Good points @magpie and @danielled about not white spot. Ignore my comments on that OP. I think you need to concentrate on getting water quality back to perfect as this will be the root of your problems.

The API liquid master test kit as a good kit and a good price. Amazon sells it for about £20.

In the meantime do a 50 % water change (using your dechlorinator for now) every day. Make sure the water temperatures match to avoid thermal shock.

Keep an eye on the breathing rate of both fish. If need be do 50% changes twice a day until you get the seachem prime or ammolock (seachem prime doubles as dechlorinator too and works out as good value as you only need a small amount).


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2018)

kittih said:


> Good points @magpie and @danielled about not white spot. Ignore my comments on that OP. I think you need to concentrate on getting water quality back to perfect as this will be the root of your problems.
> 
> The API liquid master test kit as a good kit and a good price. Amazon sells it for about £20.
> 
> ...


White spit is seen as tiny little spots and I do mean tiny. I'm not sure how I even see it with my vision being rubbish.


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Hi, thank you all so much for responding it's helped alot!! No I've seen pictures of the white spots and they don't have that, it looks like bubbles all around their body, I will try get a clearer picture and will definitly get some of that! For now is it okay to just use the safe tap solution until it comes? And I've googled this and keep wondering when doing the water changes how do people get their water to the same temperature as the tank? As tap water is freezing! We have been putting a heater in the water to warm it up but takes so long!


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

SamanthaJ said:


> Hi, thank you all so much for responding it's helped alot!! No I've seen pictures of the white spots and they don't have that, it looks like bubbles all around their body, I will try get a clearer picture and will definitly get some of that! For now is it okay to just use the safe tap solution until it comes? And I've googled this and keep wondering when doing the water changes how do people get their water to the same temperature as the tank? As tap water is freezing! We have been putting a heater in the water to warm it up but takes so long!


Yep, your tap safe is fine to use! To be honest, I have a mixer tap and just get it to the right temperature to match the tank. For my upstairs tank I mix hot & cold water together, as my bathroom has separate taps. Never had an issue doing it this way.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

SamanthaJ said:


> Hi, thank you all so much for responding it's helped alot!! No I've seen pictures of the white spots and they don't have that, it looks like bubbles all around their body, I will try get a clearer picture and will definitly get some of that! For now is it okay to just use the safe tap solution until it comes? And I've googled this and keep wondering when doing the water changes how do people get their water to the same temperature as the tank? As tap water is freezing! We have been putting a heater in the water to warm it up but takes so long!


The bubbles are probably what I was getting confused with.

There are several ways if getting the water up to temperature (it needs to be within a degree or so as the tank water). You can let it stand for several hours in a centrally heater room of a temp similar to your tank or use a aquarium heater in the bucket if water. My method is to build water in a kettle and add it and mix with the cold water from the tap and the dechlorinator until it is the same temp as the tank. I used to use a thermometer to ensure it was the same but have found if I dip my hand in the tank water and then in the bucket of clean water I can tell if they ate the same or not and adjust accordingly. After years of fish cleaning I know how much hot to add at different times of year but a thermometer is good if you are unsure. If you don't have a thermometer the hand method will be fine.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

As well as saving the fish you will also need to get the bacteria to grow in your filter.

Have a read of some of these posts for advice on this...
https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/hello-sick.437791/#post-1064714087

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/new-gold-fish-owner.452085/#post-1064917672

Edited just added another link.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Yes mixer taps works too if your water is heated as it is produced. I always used the kettle as my system was from a hot water tank which was pretty old so I was worried about heavy metal build up etc.

It would probably have been fine but I was a little too worried to risk it. Now I just have got in the habit.


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Thank you all so much for your reply! Going to do a 50% water change now, with the tap safe do I put in the amount for how much fresh water I'm about to put in or for the whole tank?


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

SamanthaJ said:


> Thank you all so much for your reply! Going to do a 50% water change now, with the tap safe do I put in the amount for how much fresh water I'm about to put in or for the whole tank?


For the amount you are adding. Though overdosing a little is OK.


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Okay, thank you, do you recommended to put the stress coat in also?


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Don't know if these are any better pictures, he does his swimming around every now and again


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Tap safe and stress coat are both water conditioners I think. The stress coat will help potentially with the the fish slime coat.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Thanks for the pics. Ignore my comments about white spot the others are right. When fish are being irritated by pathogens or toxins in the water they produce excessive slime to protect themselves.

You aim is to get the water quality perfect for now as that will help the fish recover. Once that is done you will then need to get your filter cycled. Have a look at the links posted above and also Google fish in cycling, fishless cycling and the nitrogen cycle. Please keep us updated.


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

I will thank you for all the advice you have all given me! And I will let you know how they get on


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2018)

kittih said:


> Thanks for the pics. Ignore my comments about white spot the others are right. When fish are being irritated by pathogens or toxins in the water they produce excessive slime to protect themselves.
> 
> You aim is to get the water quality perfect for now as that will help the fish recover. Once that is done you will then need to get your filter cycled. Have a look at the links posted above and also Google fish in cycling, fishless cycling and the nitrogen cycle. Please keep us updated.


I had goldfish once produce excessive slime coat back when I had the pond, knew something wasn't right in the water, they were fancy goldfish so kept in the tank. The goldfish did survive that but died of something else later.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry I'm a little late to this thread, but don't think I could add anything to the excellent advice already given. OP, please keep us updated.


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Hi, well he was getting better, swimming around and seemed alot better but today he has gone down hill, he is going by the side of the filter and just hovering next to it then he occasionally will get up to swim but he doesn't use his fins or open his tail to swim, he just wiggles his body and he will swim in front of the filter which then pushes pus away and he then just floats down to the bottom of the tank, I have done a 50% water change yesterday then did a 75% water change today and my prime came today so when I did the change I added the prime, also my gravel sython cleaner came today so used that but he doesn't seem any better, also changing colour now I don't know if his is velvet? Anyone recommend anything or what it is? Thanks for all the information previous!


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Sadly the fishy had just died after we tried everything


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry to hear that - RIP fishy 

Please continue to follow the recommendations you've been given re water changes and testing, and dosing Prime, to hopefully avoid losing the other fish.


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Yes I am doing the water changes every day until my ph kit comes which fingers crossed will be today, thank you all for your help and advice!


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Oh, I'm sorry 

Fingers crossed for the other little guy.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Very sorry to hear about your fish  . You will need to start cycling your filter once you have anything you need. Personally I would recommend you cycle your filter in a separate bucket using the fishless cycling method with ammonia and keep doing the water changes and dosing with prime in your fish tank. I don't think your fish will do well undergoing a fish in cycle.

When you are ready for this part let us know and we will be able to give you advice.


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

Hi, my other fish is doing brilliant!! Kept with the water changes just still waiting for my testing kit but he seems so happy


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## SamanthaJ (Feb 18, 2018)

So after doing 50% water changes practically everyday and tested my water for the second time, it's perfect water! high range pH is 7.5, ammonia is 0, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is 0! The previous test was High range pH was 8.2, ammonia was 1. Nitrite was 1 but the nitrate was 0. Our other black moor is still alive was a healthy fishy, we also brought 5 danios and a oranda, we are getting a bigger fish tank too, whoo! Thank you all for your help, couldn't of asked for better advice!


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

SamanthaJ said:


> So after doing 50% water changes practically everyday and tested my water for the second time, it's perfect water! high range pH is 7.5, ammonia is 0, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is 0! The previous test was High range pH was 8.2, ammonia was 1. Nitrite was 1 but the nitrate was 0. Our other black moor is still alive was a healthy fishy, we also brought 5 danios and a oranda, we are getting a bigger fish tank too, whoo! Thank you all for your help, couldn't of asked for better advice!


That's great news! I'd keep testing daily for now, just to make sure that everything stays stable. Don't worry when you start getting readings for nitrate, it's normal for a cycled tank to have some nitrate, just keep it under 40 by doing water changes. I assume that's why you're not getting a reading at the moment because you've done lots and lots of water changes 

And lovely that you're getting a bigger tank too, what size are you getting? Just be aware that when your goldfish get bigger there is a chance they will try to eat the danios, unfortunately goldfish aren't the greatest at sharing their space as they will eat whatever fits in their mouths!


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2018)

magpie said:


> That's great news! I'd keep testing daily for now, just to make sure that everything stays stable. Don't worry when you start getting readings for nitrate, it's normal for a cycled tank to have some nitrate, just keep it under 40 by doing water changes. I assume that's why you're not getting a reading at the moment because you've done lots and lots of water changes
> 
> And lovely that you're getting a bigger tank too, what size are you getting? Just be aware that when your goldfish get bigger there is a chance they will try to eat the danios, unfortunately goldfish aren't the greatest at sharing their space as they will eat whatever fits in their mouths!


Neither are danios if my four are anything to go by lol. Look what they did to my guppies tails before the guppies died.


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