# Bonding



## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Hello. We rehomed a little boy bunny yesterday with the aim of bonding him with our existing girl bunny, Nancy. So far I have had him in a pen at the end of Nancy's run so they can sniff each other safely through the mesh. I have let them both out together in the garden which *should* be neutral territory but apparently nancy doesn't agree as lots of chasing ensued. 

What would you do? Should I continue to give them supervised garden time or is this just going to stress maxi out, if nancy chases him all the time? I read about putting them in the bath tub but this seems like a bad idea to me. Perhaps the kitchen? Nancy has never been in there so hopefully won't consider it "hers". I'm on maternity leave so have all the time in the world to supervise and make sure this works, just would appreciate some pointers and advice 

ETA: both neutered, vaccinated etc.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Thought I'd add a picture  nancy is a Rex, I think maxi is a dwarf cross, he has little ears but is pretty big


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

You need to start in a small, neutral area with little to stimulate and excite them (ie keep it calm, and reduce chance to run - which can whip them up).

Have a good old read of the bonding thread before doing anything else, or it may damage your chances.

http://www.petforums.co.uk/rabbits/226235-bonding-advice.html

Also, it is better to wait 8 weeks after neuter before trying, as hormones will still be racing.

Finally, rabbits have to carefully matched personality wise, so there is no automatic guarantee that they will successfully bond.

Good luck.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Thank you, having a good read. Think I will leave them side by side for now then try them in the kitchen tonight once my baby is in bed.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

i wouldnt keep them side by side tbh it just causes tension, seperate them from sight and smell till you plan to bond, then you need to start in a small neutral space, ie small dog crate, bath tub ect, then once you start you need to keep them together 24/7, for the first 48 hours you need to keep a close eye on them, mounting chasing and fur pulling are all normal behaviors, once they settle down you can slowly increase space, if the chasing behavior resumes cut back on the space againn and try again in another 48 hours


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Thanks. Actually I think it is helping having them near. They've both stretched out next to each other with the mesh in between them. Max is at the end of Nancy's run so she can choose to be near him if she likes. Equally, part of Max's pen is away from Nancy so he can choose to get away if he wants to. Anyway, will try them in the kitchen later this evening. I've got some banana and basil ready and waiting. And a water spray!


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm assuming they're both neutered?
Sometimes too much space causes chasing and allows tensions to rise. I used a puppy play pen for one of my bonds as they were both rat bags. I kept it two foot by two foot and piled in hay and things to eat (parsley etc) to try and get them to think of something else rather than be an arse. I also stayed by their sides and stroked them to try and calm things down and get them to relax. Eventually it clicked! 
The bonding sticky contains great advice. Just keep it neutral space, limit the area and have patience!
Oh and watch the contact through the mesh....They can bite through metal bars.....I got a huge vet bill once courtesy of a severed nose on one of my doe buns! Ask Bernie lol!!


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Morning, yes both neutered. They def can't get each other through the mesh, I've checked! Poor maxi came to us with a chunk missing from his nose so I don't want him getting another war wound!
We didn't get a chance to try the kitchen last night (a 4 month old baby, 3 cats, 2 buns and a tortoise means time slips away pretty quick these days!) but I'm in no rush, slow and steady, right?! 
I'll let you know how we get on this afternoon. My ever patient bf has agreed to help me when he gets home from work!


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

Yes. Just take it easy and don't let squabbles break out. Try to end each session on a positive.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Progress! Nancy is not keen on sharing though!


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

thats good news.

just a word of warning though those corn on the cob things are not safe for bunnies, bunnies cant eat corn (except baby corn) like us they can not digest the hard outer husks, but as their digestive systems are much smaller then ours those husks can get stuck and cause intestinal blockages


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Didn't know that, just had a google of it - thanks for the heads up.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Just keep the space really small for now.

The ideal way is often to "go for it" by following the method in the Sticky, and keep them together 24/7 in a netral space, that you gradually increase in size.

But if you do that, you need to stay close by for the first few days (and nights), and that isn't likely to be possible with a baby on board. So for you, ever increasing sessions may be the way to go.

Do remember that rabbits are crepuscular (most active at dusk and dawn), when you finally keep them together, and these can be "flash2 times.

Good luck.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

Notnowbernard said:


> Didn't know that, just had a google of it - thanks for the heads up.


no worries, would be so much better if pet stores didnt sell things as suitable that actually arent, im sure we have all been guilty of doing similar at some point or other


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## kathyr25 (Oct 8, 2013)

Lil Miss said:


> thats good news.
> 
> just a word of warning though those corn on the cob things are not safe for bunnies, bunnies cant eat corn (except baby corn) like us they can not digest the hard outer husks, but as their digestive systems are much smaller then ours those husks can get stuck and cause intestinal blockages


I'd heard that, and then was going to write to Wilkos and b&m about it but the only stuff I could find on the Internet was from forums not science, so I asked the rwaf who said

"While sweetcorn / corn on the cob / maize isn't toxic, it is very high in calories. As you know, a rabbit's gut works best on high fibre, low calorie food, and millions of years of evolution has meant that they are able to extract all their bodies' need from foods low in nutrients. To give them high calorie food doesn't give the gut sufficient fibre and also leads very rapidly to obesity with all its associated problems - strain on organs and joints, and an increased danger of suffering fly strike or sore hocks among other problems. Maize is particularly rich in both oils and sugars. For this reason we do not recommend its regular use. As a treat it should be given only very sparingly.
"

So now I'm not sure if the husk thing is an urban myth or not
Either way they're not really bunny suitable but husk thing is weird

Of all the bunny welfare issues there are, it's probably not the one I should choose to get hooked on, but am intrigued!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

kathyr25 said:


> I'd heard that, and then was going to write to Wilkos and b&m about it but the only stuff I could find on the Internet was from forums not science, so I asked the rwaf who said
> 
> "While sweetcorn / corn on the cob / maize isn't toxic, it is very high in calories. As you know, a rabbit's gut works best on high fibre, low calorie food, and millions of years of evolution has meant that they are able to extract all their bodies' need from foods low in nutrients. To give them high calorie food doesn't give the gut sufficient fibre and also leads very rapidly to obesity with all its associated problems - strain on organs and joints, and an increased danger of suffering fly strike or sore hocks among other problems. Maize is particularly rich in both oils and sugars. For this reason we do not recommend its regular use. As a treat it should be given only very sparingly.
> "
> ...


Considering the RWAF are made up of normal bunny owners just like a forum their advise isn't set in stone 

No animal can digest the husks of corn, the only reason rodents don't have an issue is because they chew the husk up before swallowing. If hair can cause blockages in rabbits then un digested husks are also a risk..

But speaking from a nutritional point of view, excess carbs of any type can cause overgrowth of bacteria's and yeasts in the intestinal system that can lead to gastro-intestinal illness and soft stools. Excess carbs are also converted into fat.

This applies to "any" carb whether it's corn, wheat, oats, carrots, or a pop tart.

There are much, much better foods we can use as treats for our rabbits so for me they are a no go


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## Miceandmore64 (Jun 7, 2013)

Lil Miss said:


> no worries, would be so much better if pet stores didnt sell things as suitable that actually arent, im sure we have all been guilty of doing similar at some point or other


Like pine wood shavings that aren't kiln dried and they say its ok for mice.
Wow when I got respiratory problems come through because I got some mice from someone who used this and found out afterwords its a NO-NO.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

Miceandmore64 said:


> Like pine wood shavings that aren't kiln dried and they say its ok for mice.
> Wow when I got respiratory problems come through because I got some mice from someone who used this and found out afterwords its a NO-NO.


pine doesn't cause respiratory issues, thats dusty bedding, which is another reason why all shavings are best avoided and sawdust is a big no no, pine and cedar cause liver/kidney failure (i always forget which it is)


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

kathyr25 said:


> I'd heard that, and then was going to write to Wilkos and b&m about it but the only stuff I could find on the Internet was from forums not science, so I asked the rwaf who said
> 
> "While sweetcorn / corn on the cob / maize isn't toxic, it is very high in calories. As you know, a rabbit's gut works best on high fibre, low calorie food, and millions of years of evolution has meant that they are able to extract all their bodies' need from foods low in nutrients. To give them high calorie food doesn't give the gut sufficient fibre and also leads very rapidly to obesity with all its associated problems - strain on organs and joints, and an increased danger of suffering fly strike or sore hocks among other problems. Maize is particularly rich in both oils and sugars. For this reason we do not recommend its regular use. As a treat it should be given only very sparingly.
> "
> ...


the RWAF are just normal bunny owners like you or I, they have proved on many occasions that they do not know everything 

while what they are saying re the calorie intake is true, so is the fact that they can not digest the husks, no animal can, even goats (and those beggers eat anything) cant (seeing sweetcorn goat poops is highly amusing though and easily tell you who the culprit is, but i digress) and a rabbits digesting tract is that small it is very easy for any large object in it to cause a blockage, be it hair or corn husk, and as the digestive tract is so long, the small intestines itself is over 3 meters long with a diameter of only around 0.5-1cm (MAX) there is a huge chance that one of those corn husks will get stuck some where along that ride
infact here have a look at this


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## kathyr25 (Oct 8, 2013)

I didn't want the RWAF to be normal bunny owners - was hoping they'd be experts

So have just been looking at their last few years accounts and they really are largely all volunteers and now thinking actually what they do on such a small budget is pretty impressive


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

yes they do do a lot to promote rabbit welfare, you have to give them credit for that 

but they are not the be all and end all in bunny knowledge


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

First day in the pen together..they've been sharing a pile of hay!


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