# My Dog Nipped a Stranger Today



## jilldaniel (May 14, 2010)

Hi

I hope someone can help us. We have a nearly 2 year old spaniel x who we got at 10 months old. He has a problem with aggression and seems over protective of me.
He has never liked people coming into the house, and barks at people passing by. We are working on both these issues and he is getting better.
He will lunge and bark at dogs on walks, we have worked really hard on this (giving him treats and praise when he behaves) and he is alot better now.
However he seems to be getting worse with strangers when we are out, if someone stops to chat he will often bark and twice in the past 2 weeks he has nipped. Once when someone came to chat, and worse, today when someone just walk by without even looking at us. 
I am nervous when we are out and keep in on a short lead just incase. He is much worse when he is with me. 
He follows me around the house and pines for me if I go out (even when other people are home). I am with him most of the time, our vet suggested getting other family members to do things for him (play/feed etc) which we have been doing.
He is neutered.
I take him to obedience classes, he is pretty good at commands etc, I take him mostly for the socialising.
We have thought about getting a behaviourist but our vet put us off the idea, saying he had seen lots of people paying a lot of money and still having problems.
I would be very grateful for any advice.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

he needs a behaviourist. its a serious problem that needs to be solved ASAP by a professional.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

see your vet and ask him to reccomend one. 
in the mean time i would muzzle him all it would take is for him to break the skin on someone and heaven forbid a child and he could be pts


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2011)

Can only echo what others have said!
For the time being you need to protect your dog for his own good and that means wearing a muzzle to preventany'accidents'
It may just be that he is sensing you nervousness- but until its sorted - please muzzle him
All the best in gettingthis sorted
DT


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

jilldaniel said:


> [our] nearly 2-YO spaniel-x [arrived] at 10-MO. He has a problem with aggression
> & seems over-protective of me. He's never liked [visitors entering] the house, & barks at [passers-by].
> We are working on both these issues & he is getting better.
> He [lunges & barks] at dogs on walks, we've worked really hard on this (giving treats & praise
> ...


good on ya for the progress with visitors to the house & with passerby.

re the *'protection'* thing, are these actual threats? 
if not, he's trying to distance ppl NOT to 'protect U', but for his own emotional comfort - 
he's uncomfortable & so sends them off.

re the nips - 
did he leave a mark of any kind? a pink superficial scratch, a bruise which developed later, a minor 
puncture, a raised welt?

did he puncture or tear clothing over the skin, but leave skin unmarked? 
or only leave saliva on clothing or skin?

re the bitees - 
any common factors in the 2 people he nipped? adults, kids - any age range? 
male, female, tall, dark-haired or light-skinned or ____ ?

did they talk loudly, move abruptly, seem excited? 


jilldaniel said:


> [he nipped] Once when someone came to chat, & worse, today when someone just walk[ed] by
> without even looking at us.


again, were they walking briskly - which might elicit chasing in another dog - or walked very close-by? 
being 'inside' whatever distance a dog feels is safe - their personal-space can vary - can trigger a bite. 
note that i am NOT excusing the behavior; only explaining a possible cause. 


jilldaniel said:


> *bold added - *
> 
> I am nervous when we're out & keep [him] on a short lead, just [in case]. He is much worse
> when he is with me.
> ...


* tighten up on the cued behaviors - by which i mean, get them more reliable. 
practice more often, but shorter lessons; make them upbeat & engaging.

* try NILIF - & i would suggest '*sit*' as the currency of the realm. 
SIT for everything & anything to get what he needs or wants: to be fed, get the leash on for walks, 
to exit or enter any door, exit the car, before he gets petting or fuss, before he gets up on the sofa 
for cuddles, to get his bowl filled with fresh water... Any, Every, All the time, Everywhere, sit, sit, sit...

WHY? because it gives him *structure* - something consistent, predictable & reassuring; routines are 
very reassuring & comfort anxious dogs [or persons in general, human or not]. secondarily, to get him into 
a *habit of compliance* - we say sit, & WAIT; he complies, he gets what he wants! A miracle - and more, 
he gets *everything* this way: food, fun, water, physical contact, social comfort, all his wants & needs. 
every time he sits - which at first will be *cued* every time, say it ONCE & wait - each sit is practicing 
compliance: we say Do, he Does... over & over & ov...

Thirdly, *to give him a way to communicate his desires & preferences. * 
if he's smart & gets lots of opps to practice *sit to earn,* he'll figure it out - in hours or days, depending 
on how good YOU are at introducing it into everyday use - 
and once he gets the idea, he will spontaneously _*offer an un-cued sit*_ as a pretty-please? behavior; 
watch for it!

when it comes, do Ur level best to say Yes!, that all important first-time; unless it is literally impossible, 
something un-safe or would make him sick or otherwise not possible, when he looks at Ur face & does a neat, 
precise, often slightly-slow SIT as a _Mother-may-I?_, say yes.

*a dog who can ASK to get outta Dodge has a way to escape triggering events, 
without ever risking a bite - s/he can ASK for more distance, ASK to avoid that person, etc.*

* when home, i'd specifically practice having him *===>* away from U: 
in another room, with a baby-gate, door or a baseboard-tether to keep him from following. 
he can have a stuffed & frozen Kong, a bone to gnaw, a food-puzzle to destroy, etc, as busywork. 
umbilical-cord him to someone else for an hour or 2 - don't give him the option of tagging along. 
U don't want him shadowing U - but to get more confidence away from U, & expand his buddy-list.



jilldaniel said:


> *bold added - *
> 
> *We've thought about* [hiring] *a behaviourist but our vet put us off the idea, saying he'd seen lots of people
> [pay] a lot of money & still [have] problems.
> ...


*
first suggestion? 
new vet. :thumbdown: blaming the advisor for a poor outcome is IMO absurd.

U do not say if he refers to credentialed behaviorists - folks with academic chops - or simply 
somebody who hangs up their shingle as a self-anointed practitioner, or after a few weeks of classes 
by someone who is themselves un-credentialed.

COAPE, APBC or an aggro-experienced APDT-uk member are all potential legitimate resources - 
not 'listeners' or 'whisperers' or 'bark-blusterers' but trainers who have satisfied a 3rd-party process.

re B-Mod failures: 
there are plenty of medical-problems for which there is no 'sure cure', just as there are behavioral problems 
which like allergies or irritable-bowel, can be chronic - & just as true, the patient's compliance is not under 
the direct control of any doctor, vet or trainer - the person being treated, or the human-owner of the dog, horse, etc, 
is ultimately responsible to carry out the protocol: take the meds as directed, store them properly, 
do the training or B-mod, use good management to prevent the events, use a leash vs leave the dog loose, 
and so on.

i'd also suggest calmatives - 
see post #22 of the sticky, dog body-language, for a list of what, how, when, etc. 
calmatives are OTC, no scrip, no interactions with other meds, no dosage worries. 
they can be given 10 to 15-mins before a walk or any known stressor - like visitors.

Click to Calm is an excellent DIY-manual for any reactive behaviors; safe, kind, clear 
step-by-step protocols are written out; the front of the book explains why they work. 
if the local library has no copy, they can borrow it from another library.

re the muzzle - 
be sure it's a BOX-muzzle, not a groomer's tube! 
- make sure it fits comfortably; an over-the-head strap so that it cannot be removed by the dog is good 
as insurance, standard muzzles often lack this. The over-the-head strap goes between the eyes, 
from the upper edge of the muzzle back, & has a loop for the COLLAR to feed thru.

- teach him to PUT IT ON HIMSELF. this is called conditioning or muzzle-training - 
YouTube - ‪Jean Donaldson gets conditioned emotional response while fitting Gentle Leader‬‏

jean donaldson does a great job using a Gentle Leader, not a muzzle but the same concept; 
U'll need a supply of small but tasty high-protein /zero to low-carb treats; 
offer the muzzle open-end to the dog, with a treat IN IT - & wait. 
YouTube - ‪Muzzle Training‬‏

let him stick his nose in, praise as he eats, re-load; if he knows a clicker, now is a good time to use it. 
if not, it's a GREAT time to introduce it - click for any approach to the open end, then click more accurate 
attempts to target the opening, WITH A TREAT each time he willingly puts his face first near, then In it. 
finally, when he is eagerly shoving his whole face into the muzzle & holding it there for a few seconds, 
try buckling it on, TREATS --thru-- the muzzle while buckled, & remove it. 
repeat at least 2 or 3 times before asking him to wear it for the first time.

- once he's muzzled, YOU MUST PROTECT HIM - as he cannot protect or defend himself, and he needs 
to feel safe - not merely 'be safe'. if he becomes even slightly alarmed, even irrationally, give him space 
from whatever is worrying him - walk in a wide arc around them/it, go back a driveway & let them/it pass by, 
retreat to the last cross street & move away from the intersection to watch them/it leave the area, etc.

be Pro-Active in order to avoid him becoming Re-Active.

- U will have to carry a sport-cap bottle for the dog to drink; 
insert it from the SIDE at the flews & squeeze gently with the dog's head slightly tipped-up to swallow. 
support the muzzle from below with one hand & restrain the dog lightly with the leash in that same hand, 
after popping the sport-cap up to open it, then squeeze into the lower flew on the near-side with Ur free hand. 
NEVER squirt water into a dog's mouth from the center-front! they choke & it can go into their lungs, 
resulting in inhalation pneumonia or a blocked airway.

- at home, he can drink muzzled from a plunge-bucket; a stainless-steel bucket with a seamless bottom 
is easy to clean & does not trap bacteria. the water must be at least 2/3 the depth of the muzzle to drink.*


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> new vet. :thumbdown: blaming the advisor for a poor outcome is IMO absurd


Vets refer to behaviourists, so if the Vet is disatisfied with the practioners, it is like the workman who blames his tools! Good workman *obtain* suitable tools!

Even an excellent behaviourist who diagnoses correctly an issue, is going to require a client to be motivated to consistently put into practice recommendations.

Anyone who cannot be consistent and is unwilling to make resonable effort to improve behaviour in their dog, ought not own one. This may sound harsh, but I'm sick of lazy ignorant owners, who blame the dogs and accept "problems" on walks, which are often due to the dog being obviously fearful who won't put themselves out in any way to mitigate the problem. That's despite clear evidence that the dog responds quickly to cheap & simple b-mod techniques.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Hi
you don`t mention what exercise your dog gets. A springer (or springer cross) is an active dog bred for working all day. He needs training, exercise and stimulation. Walking a dog on a short lead makes for a frustrated, agitated dog. 
Apart from this, it sounds like he hasn`t been socialised properly when young.
I agree a good trainer or behaviourist would be best BUT there are some really bad ones out there, so first I suggest you read 2 books - 
The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson, which will explain how you dog thinks and give basic training advice. 
The Dog Aggression Workbook by James O`Heare. This gives a plan of action you can follow. 
Both books are from excellent, well qualified people who use positive methods. 
When you have read these books you can then be in a position to judge advice given by any trainers you come across (like the one I met who said my dog `needed a good slap`).
If you can`t find anyone to help, they will give you the tools you need to train the dog yourself. 
In the meantime. Learn to walk your dog defensively. Use a Halti to control the sharp end in conjunction with a flat collar. Keep the dog at a distance from anything that makes him anxious. If necessary turn and walk away from people. Praise / reward your dog when he`s calm. Take him out of situations that frighten him.


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## rottiemum (Apr 12, 2011)

I would recommend an APBC qualified behaviourist - google APBC and you'll find one in your area. Got one out for my rottie and he was a miracle worker. Will need a recommendation from the vet usually but can also be covered by your pet insurance. Good luck


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## jilldaniel (May 14, 2010)

Thank you. I'll try and answer some of the questions.

He's a cocker spaniel/poodle x. He get about 2 hours of walks a day. Off lead maybe 3x a week. 
He hasnt left a mark when he's nipped, just nipped at the clothes lightly, no tears or anything.
The training classes I take him to have recommended a behaviourist with the following: CAAB CertEd VN PHC. I don't know what this means and want to be careful choosing one.
I will get hold of those books - thank you.
When he plays with dogs he plays too roughly, I dont think he was socialised before we got him.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

jilldaniel said:


> He's a cocker spaniel/poodle x. ...gets about 2 hours of walks [daily]. Off lead maybe 3x a week.
> He hasnt left a mark when he's nipped, just nipped at the clothes lightly, no tears or anything.


is it possible to give him some runs on a long-line? this allows him distance, but if another dog appears, 
U can quickly recall & reward, or even reel him on like a fighting-fish, and *still* reward him - he got there, 
it _*does not matter how - *_ praise him to the skies, play brisk happy tug, give livercake, whatever! 

aerobic exercise off-leash inside a fence [a garden, a tennis-court?... a friend's back-yard?] with fetch 
or 'herding' a ball, etc, would also give loads of exercise without the risk of a tiff with another dog, 
nor a person being nipped / snapped at or outright bitten.

the fact that the bites have all IMO been *warnings - * mouthing clothing, not ripping & without perforating 
the clothes, nor marking the skin beneath - means this has an excellent prognosis! 
:thumbup: it's been caught early, he is worried by people & wants them to go away - but he has very good 
*bite inhibition* - which is a wonderful thing, don't break it.  a good inhibited bite is priceless. 


jilldaniel said:


> The training classes I take him to have recommended a behaviourist with the following:
> *CAAB* CertEd VN PHC.


WoW! :001_tt1: a CAAB is the next-best thing to a veterinary-behaviorist, so this person is highly qualified. 
Directory of Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists - Animal Behavior Society: Applied Animal Behavior

CAAB Certification FAQs

the person they're referring U to is no self-proclaimed 'behaviorist' - but the real deal. 
a behaviorist is an academic credential which includes hands-on practicum under the eyes of an already 
qualified mentor or instructor - they may have a bachelor's degree in Behavioral Science, or a PhD 
in Behavioral Psychology, etc, with courses heavy on animal behavior & ethology, psych, beh-science, etc.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> is it possible to give him some runs on a long-line? this allows him distance, but if another dog appears,
> U can quickly recall & reward, or even reel him on like a fighting-fish, and *still* reward him - he got there,
> it _*does not matter how - *_ praise him to the skies, play brisk happy tug, give livercake, whatever!
> 
> ...


I am having similar problems with Roxy snapping at people who come too close on our walks.

Luckliy we are already working with a behavioursit & I am now aware of what distance she is comfortable with so keep people at a distance for the moment until she seems more comfortable.

As mentioned, Roxy has amazing bite inhibition, she even picked up a mouse that was running round the house the other night (one of the cats had bought it in), carried it around then gently put it down where it looked a bit confused then ran off!

I think her snaps are a warning to people to back off but because of this behaviour I am now worried to let her off the lead in case someone did appear & she did bite them, I don't think she would but being a GSD I can't take that risk


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

jilldaniel said:


> The training classes I take him to have recommended a behaviourist with the following:
> CAAB CertEd VN PHC.


would it be this person? 
| Dog Training Durham | Dog Training Classes Durham | Dog Behaviour |Pet Behaviour Durham |

she is a *Cert*ified *Ed*ucator [teacher with creds], a *V*eterinary *N*urse, 
& a certified *P*et *H*ealth *C*ounselor - so handling, nutrition, fitness, etc, are all 
within her areas of knowledge, plus the behavior & training aspects. :thumbsup: 
and she is qualified to teach - people, not pets - so should be well-versed in instruction methods.


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> I take him to obedience classes, he is pretty good at commands etc,


Then you take him to what are effectively ineffective OB classes. You wrote the proof in your post, here Quote - _However he seems to be getting worse with strangers when we are out, if someone stops to chat he will often bark_ - Its the sort of training you are doing which is making him worse.



> and twice in the past 2 weeks he has nipped


There are NO 'if, NO 'buts' if someone reports it he will be PTS end of story.



> We have thought about getting a behaviourist but our vet put us off the idea, saying he had seen lots of people paying a lot of money and still having problems.


Your vet is 110% right but that fact is very known in recent years, watch the video below for users feedback on both behaviourists and one of the training organisations, one dog died, click the youtube screen to enlarge it, its easier to read their feedback.

What area are you, if it's Durham the guy called 'Banger' in the users feedback video below lived in Sunderland, the prospects around that area for effective OB training were abysmal, it was a combination of 'positive' training & behaviourists around there which made his dog unmanagable & dangerous?

.


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## spot (Feb 10, 2009)

I do hope you get this sorted as you must be very concerned and worried. My thoughts are with you and your pooch.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> Then you take him to what are effectively ineffective OB classes. You wrote the proof in your post, here Quote - _However he seems to be getting worse with strangers when we are out, if someone stops to chat he will often bark_ its the sort of training you are doing which is making him worse.
> 
> There are NO 'if, NO 'buts' if someone reports it he will be PTS end of story.
> 
> ...


Here we go again, another unhelpful post with a link to a screen shot of another forum :thumbdown:


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

> Here we go again, another unhelpful post with a link to a screen shot of another forum


You should show some respect to both those posters who went to the time and trouble to post their opinions and personal experiences of trainers & behaviourists >especially< as one of then had to go through the trauma of loosing a dog to a bungeling behaviourist & the other, Banger, had spent well over £1k on behaviouists and trainers, most recomended from a forum, and all he ended up with was dog which would bite anything in sight.

If all user who had these experiences went to the same trouble of making sure they pass their experiences to other people then it would make the country a safer place for dogs, so you should not slam them, others may benefit from their efforts to pass info via posts.

Heres another recent experience, not from this forum -

SillySue 30.06.10 07:19 GMT
I have seen a behaviourist highly recommended on this website several times ( no names)|
*my poor dog was forced into situations where* *he was actually vomiting with fear*

.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

SleepyBones said:


> You should show some respect to both those posters who went to the time and trouble to post their opinions and personal experiences of trainers & behaviourists >especially< as one of then had to go through the trauma of loosing a dog to a bungeling behaviourist & the other, Banger, had spent well over £1k on behaviouists and trainers, most recomended from a forum, and all he ended up with was dog which would bite anything in sight.
> 
> If all user who had these experiences went to the same trouble of making sure they pass their experiences to other people then it would make the country a safer place for dogs, *so you should not slam them*, others may benefit from their efforts to pass info via posts.
> 
> ...


I don't slam anyone for posting about their experiences or those who pass on advice to other members - just your posts lately that are unhelpful, critical & simply provide links to other websites with no evidence to back them up.

The OP is asking for advice regarding her dog snapping so it would be nice if you posted something that would actually help her rather than a link to a screen shot 

I also apologise to the OP for going off topic but I get fed up of these posts that are so bizarre & just weird tbh!


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> The OP is asking for advice regarding her dog snapping so it would be nice if you posted something that would actually help her rather than a link to a screen shot


But Sleepy can't really do that, as his methods are *too shocking!*


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## SleepyBones (Apr 17, 2011)

Hi Jilldaniel
Your best bet to get a responsible trainer (or a behaviourist member) SUITABLE FOR YOUR INDIVIDUAL NEEDS IS THE GODT, (Guild Of Dog Trainers ).

They only started in 2008, they started out of serious concern of dogs being dumped in rescues after ineffective training had made them unmanageable & making the owners & family lives a misery to the point they could no longer cope with the dog.

In recent years (and never before in history) almost every rescue in the UK is full to the seams with dogs made unmanagle due to ineffective training (tricks for treats one trick pony type), independent trainers took action & formed GODT.

One of their main rules that is of importance to you
is that if one of their trainers is having difficulty with the owners dog they must refer that owner to a trainer who can train you & that dog, there is no one trick fits all approach, *rule 10* is the most important rule for you, or anyone hiring one of them, I suggest you find one in your area and contact them & maybe read Sarah Muncks article below.

Sarah Muncke of Chiltern Rescue has written a damning article on the sort of otherwise healthy, but, unmanageable dogs they are having dumped on them these days, shes also a member of GODT.

See rule 10
The Guild of Dog Trainers - Dog Training, Dog Training and Behaviour, Dog Training Courses, Dog Behaviour Courses

Regional trainers
The Guild of Dog Trainers

Sarah Muncke (GODT) & Others,  UK Pet Dogs Crisis
Trained For Life | Articles on Dog Behaviour
.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

jilldaniel said:


> We have a nearly 2 year old spaniel x who we got at 10 months old. He has a problem with aggression and seems over protective of me.
> He has never liked people coming into the house, and barks at people passing by. We are working on both these issues and he is getting better.
> He will lunge and bark at dogs on walks, we have worked really hard on this (giving him treats and praise when he behaves) and he is alot better now.
> However he seems to be getting worse with strangers when we are out, if someone stops to chat he will often bark and twice in the past 2 weeks he has nipped. Once when someone came to chat, and worse, today when someone just walk by without even looking at us.
> I am nervous when we are out and keep in on a short lead just incase. He is much worse when he is with me


I'm going to show you threads where ppl have successfully worked on problems, so you can see example of counter-conditioning working, note in 2nd case part of solution was with handler.

You may be wise to read many posts by anyone offering advice, particularly where they have an undeclared interest, to see what their motivations are, and if they are objective and balanced, or have an agenda.

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/158018-training-social-humans-dogs.html#post2359496
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/156911-help-needed-traffic-phobia.html

Unfortunately on a pet forum, some people advocate methods which suppress symptoms rather than adress underlying cause, and are likely to cause pain (though they deny that) so may be breaking the Animal Welfare act terms.

Remember on the Net, the law of large numbers applies and you can find complaints & criticism about almost anything; further more there is a tendency for advocates of a method to discount evidence of effectiveness of more humane methods due to


RobD-BCactive said:


> *motivated reasoning* : Why facts & evidence don't settle arguements (See In the persuasion game, beware the backfire effect | MNN - Mother Nature Network)


I would not take advice from anyone who advocates methods that are illegal in Wales and risk criminal fine & gaol term.


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## Irish Setter Gal (Mar 17, 2011)

Does that mean that because Sleepy bones recommends the GODT they too are not worthy?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

What's wrong with COAPE?

APBC?

experienced APDT-uk members who are familiar with the specific problem - aggro, fearful, other?

*a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist is one step below a veterinary behaviorist. 
they have both academic & practical experience, & must satisfy set standards on both - 
plus abide by ethical standards. * Where does that fall short, & by whose standards?


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

CABT/COAPE - CAPBT - COAPE Association of Pet Behaviourists and Trainers with What happens at a CAPBT Behaviour Consultation sounding good to me :



CABT said:


> EMRA stands for Emotional, Mood State and Reinforcement Analysis which put simply,
> 
> analyses how your pet feels on a day to day basis - are they fully content with life?
> determines how your pet feels when the problematic situation arises and
> ...


Compare with the less serious counter-conditioning cases on forum (had not escalated to tooth/skin contact) that I pointed to as examples with feedback.

COAPE explain why I suggestion care about researching sources of advice (See COAPE - Centre of Applied Pet Ethology) :


COAPE said:


> WHO CAN STUDY & PRACTISE PET BEHAVIOUR THERAPY?
> YOU CAN! ANYONE CAN!
> FACT: No organisations, professional bodies or qualifications exist in the United Kingdom that restrict, protect or bestow the legal right to practise pet behaviour therapy.
> 
> ...


That's not a good state of affairs and presumbably a reason for the Vet's caution; some local Behaviourists are of the unqualified "Dog Whisperer" vareity, who can set up without any qualifications but a flair for marketing to an ill informed public.


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## jilldaniel (May 14, 2010)

Oh dear, all very confusing!! I'm happy going along to the training classes as it's helping with basic training and letting him socialise in a controlled environment. I'm not sure I understand what harm they can be doing?

Leashedforlife, thanks for your reply, i found that very helpful. I also cycle with him, so I think he gets quite a lot of exercise. A long line is a good idea, although in the past i think he's got quite frustrated (as he thinks he can run further than he can). I'll give it another go though.
Could you please tell me what you mean when you say not to break his bite control.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

jilldaniel said:


> Could you please tell me what you mean when you say not to break his bite control.


bite-inhibition is something pups learn first from siblings & their dam, then from other dogs in play - if they bite 
in play too-sharply, the sibling, mum or other pup/dog will react: withdraw or yelp, turn away, end the game, 
cold-shoulder the pup for a few minutes or longer, & so on. The feedback lets the pup know the bite hurt, & just as we 
can modify our grasp of an object, dogs - whose hands-equivalent are their mouths, for manipulating anything - 
can moderate their bites to minimize pressure. Mother-dogs can pick up their pups & carry them quite a distance, 
set them down & the pup is unmarked in any way; adult-dogs can snarkily reprove an older pup with a facial-bite 
& a growl, which looks & sounds terrifying - all flashing, snapping teeth & an awful snarl; but again, there's no mark, 
not even a bruise is left, altho the pup may yipe & cringe, and appease madly - or just flee.

breaking a dog's bite-inhibition can happen in several ways: 
* the most common? *ignore low-level protests & force the dog to escalate.* 
the dog freezes when the stranger pats her thumpingly on the head, tightens her shoulders & drops her ears. 
the stranger & the owner ignore the signals & carry on talking, while the stranger reaches across her shoulders 
to thump her far-side in a friendly fashion; again, she flinches visibly & this time growls softly, looking to her owner - 
who instead of asking the stranger to move back & let the dog approach ==> them for attention, scolds the dog.

this dog was obviously uncertain to begin with, & the intrusive, overbearing way she was approached & touched 
made her even-more apprehensive. When she signalled her discomfort, first she was ignored & the intrusions 
continued - when she protested mildly, she was scolded for expressing her increasing worry. 
what will she do the next time a stranger gets inside her personal-space, despite any signals she might give? 
i'd say *start* with a growl, & likely a louder, more-threatening one than before; she may air-snap, too.

but if her owner persists in forcing her to 'save herself', & strangers continue to force their attentions on her, 
she may bite with some force as a first-option: she'll discard her bite-inhibition because it doesn't work, 
her owner does not help her get out of the situation, & the strangers don't heed her polite 'give me distance' signs.

* another common one, especially with boys - 
or men who act childishly  - *rough handling or rough-housing.* 
grabby games with tender ears, rumpling necks & wrestling, encouraging the dog to jump-on them or to grab 
sleeves or pants-legs, ignoring bites that leave bruises or scratches... breaks down bite-inhibition by habituating the dog 
to 'forceful bites are OK'. 
they MAY BE okay with the 10-YO son in the family, but when the dog bites the younger sister & bruises or breaks 
skin, or tears clothing or knocks her down while jumping-up to wrestle, suddenly it's not so acceptable. 
elderly relatives or very-young children have thin, friable skin; & strangers don't appreciate k9-wrestling grips.

the same process that the pup's siblings used to install bite-inhibition has been used to un-install it: originally, 
the feedback was, _'Yow! that's too hard, i'm not playing with U...  ...' _, & now it's morphed into, 
_'yeah, c'mon! i'll get U, grrr - gotcha!... ha!'_ --- same process, but encouraging roughness in the dog.

the best way to KEEP bite-inhibition healthy is to heed all early warnings: 
respect the dog's feelings when s/he says they're getting very worried & don't like what's happening. 
back-off if at all possible - STOP trimming the claw, pulling the knot in their coat, move away from the stranger, 
while the dog is still giving low-level pre-contact distancing signals, like turn their head away, look-away, 
freeze, lip-lick & duck, flinching, and so on.

a growl is a good thing - *hear it & heed it*; an air-snap is still polite, but a clear warning to back-off. 
if the dog *must tolerate* further indignities, like a painful vet-exam, for pity's sake STOP & muzzle the dog! 
there is no reason to risk damaging the dog's inhibitions about laying into some eejit-human, who may richly 
deserve the bite - but that bite can cost the owner & the dog dearly.

bite-inhibition is absolutely precious; when a dog is driven past their coping-point & *does* bite, 
s/he can still moderate the force, & thus minimize the damage. a welt is better than a scratch, which is better 
than a bruise, which is better than a puncture, which is better than multiple punctures, which is better than 
a rip where the dog bit & tore with jaw closed; which is way-better than deep bruises & multiple punctures, 
which is better than multiple bites with heavy bruising, which is better than mauling with muscle-tears, 
which is better than missing tissue & deep injuries... there are gradations in bites & the lesser, the better.

i'll take an air-snap with a growl any day, with genuine thanks to the dog's restraint, over a full-mouth bite 
that leaves bruises for a fortnight - let alone punctures, or tears that need drains.


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## jilldaniel (May 14, 2010)

Ok, from what you say I think we're doing everything ok with regards to bit control.
One question, what should we do when he barks at people/dogs. We praise/reward when he doesnt but should he be told off when he does?


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

jilldaniel said:


> One question, what should we do when he barks at people/dogs. We praise/reward when he doesnt but should he be told off when he does?


No! You are better to turn him away and try to distance, avoiding the proximity which causes him to lose it (going over-threshold). So you want rude behaviour to be extinguished, that means do not practice them, and you want polite behaviour to be fluent, that means encourage, practise and reward.

So watching your dog for signs of getting to the threshold matters, hence emphasis on reading your dog's body language (see sticky). With practice you can anticipate and avoid most problem situations, which naturally destresses and calms the dog, in a virtuous circle of better improving behaviour.

People who force the dog to do things, "show who's boss!" ignoring these signs, inadvertently create and intensify fear & anxiety based problems, because the dog feels helpless to improve outcomes.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

jilldaniel said:


> Ok, from what you say I think we're doing everything OK [re his bite-inhibition].


Good! :thumbup: that's excellent, we want to keep that pearl. 


jilldaniel said:


> One question, what should we do when he barks at people/dogs[?]
> We praise/reward when he doesn't, but should he be told off when he does?


oh, dear. Jill, honey - U did not *read* my first post - 


> _*Click to Calm* is an excellent DIY-manual for any reactive behaviors; safe, kind, clear
> step-by-step protocols are written out; the front of the book explains why they work.
> if the local library has no copy, they can borrow it from another library. _


if the local library does not have this book, another library can lend it to them - it generally costs 
about $2 for a fairly-hefty book to be mailed, & that's what U pay: postage.

U can buy a *new* copy via Amazon for $17-USA - or use a highly-trusted seller, & buy used. 
a new copy plus *Feisty Fido*_: Help for the Leash-Reactive Dog_ by Patricia McConnell for $10 
will get U free-shipping. [anything over $25 total].

both will explain concepts like keeping him *under threshold*, meaning aware of the other dog, 
but not reacting; teaching an emergency U-turn with a happy association; etc, which are too long 
to reproduce here. We cannot re-write a book on the forum,  And why re-invent the wheel?... 
they're excellent books, well-worth every penny. If money is a serious problem, they're WAY-cheaper 
than any consultation.

if money precludes buying them - hit that library, woman! :thumbup: even if they borrow from another library, 
U should have the book in 3 to 4 days, no problem.


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