# Tramadol users?



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

My vet gave me Tramadol for Alfie yesterday but has basically left the dosing to my discretion, anything between one 50mg tablet a day up to 2x50mg thee times a day.
That's a lot of leeway, so wondered what others dose 
What dose do you give, how many times a day, how heavy is your dog and how bad was their pain before this?


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

We've used Tramadol once in the past and are back on it again now.

Our dog weighed 32kg when he was first prescribed this. He has spondylosis and we went through a spell of him having a really painful spine, just a little behind his shoulders. Yelled in pain if you touched even the fur near it, and had terrible trouble changing position from side to side or standing to sitting etc.

Apparently the minimum active dose for his weight is 60mg, so the vet advised there was no point in giving him a single 50ml capsule as it wouldn't be enough to be effective. We started him on 2 x 50mg capsules, twice a day, spaced 12 hours apart, and found it started to work about 1 - 1.5 hours after taking them, and then wore off about 4 hours later, so we added in 2 x 50mg capsules 6 hours after the first dose.

He was also on the maximum dose of Previcox as Rimadyl hadn't worked before. We finally got him pain free and after a few weeks tapered him off the Tramadol. With his spondylosis, he gets the pain as the bones are fusing, and once they've fused and there's no further movement, the pain disappears.

He's back on Tramadol at the moment for pancreatitis. And we've also taken him off Previcox as it was damaging his liver. 2 x 50mg tablets just twice a day seems to have knocked out the pancreatitis pain, which was obviously pretty bad for the poor thing before, judging by his greatly improved character now (or maybe he's just stoned:biggrin, and he also doesn't seem to have any joint pain, so I would imagine he'll be on Tramadol for the rest of his life now, combined with cartrophen injections. 

I would start the first dose on the minimum active dose and monitor his pain. Tramadol is good stuff, so you should see an improvement an hour or so after dosing. If you don't, then add in another table. Mind you, for the first few days it does make Jack very dozy and uncoordinated, but as we saw this the first time and knew he got used to them within 2-3 days we carried on and saw exactly the same again this time.

By the way, if you get a prescription from your vet you can buy Tramadol at any chemist as it is a human medicine. And only 5p per tablet as opposed to the 14p my vet charges. Our vet writes a month's prescription - can't do any more as it is a controlled drug, but allows several repeats so you can fill a month at a time. It saves us quite a bit of money, and lovely being able to get it locally rather than an online veterinary pharmacy.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Thank you.
I must have misunderstood my vet as I know nothing of the minimum active dose  we were talking rather a lot so I may have missed that bit. I'll go and have a look.
Alf has had Tramadol before, only for a very short period after an operation and it made him dozy too


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Sorry to hear Alfie is suffering  & sorry cant mem the highest dose Banjo was on  I think he was on 3x50mg twice a day before & after his op but we had to reduce it gradually to wean him off it & he has'nt needed any for a while  but is still on Gabapentin & Carprieve


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Just looked it up and they say that 0.45mg per lb is the lowest active dose.
Tramadol: Pain Medication for Dogs and Cats - 1800PetMeds

That 0.45mg x 77lbs = 34.65mg

As the tablet is 50mg, it should hopefully work 

I can up it more if not.

Thank you for your help, I would never have checked that had you not said


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

oooo just found it had a mild anti-anxiety action, that should help prevent his breathing problem


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Dally Banjo said:


> Sorry to hear Alfie is suffering  & sorry cant mem the highest dose Banjo was on  I think he was on 3x50mg twice a day before & after his op but we had to reduce it gradually to wean him off it & he has'nt needed any for a while  but is still on Gabapentin & Carprieve


Thanks, I'm still hoping it's a blip with his legs (not the breathing ), but the vets not convinced!

We'll see


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

rona said:


> Thanks, I'm still hoping it's a blip with his legs (not the breathing ), but the vets not convinced!
> 
> We'll see


If you are haveing the same damp weather we are  hopefully its just that


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm not sure where my vet got 60mg from then as our dog is 32kg = 70.4lbs. At 0.45mg per lb, that would give a minimum active dose of 31.68mg. Maybe the UK has slightly different dosage instructions for some reason

I think maybe we'll try and taper the dose a little on Jack to see what happens. His pancreatitis symptoms seem to be tapering off as we're down to just 1 Zantac at bedtime now, so maybe once he's completely off Zantac with no intermittent sickness returning it'll be worth a try.

Good luck - hope it works as well for Alfie as it does for Jack.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

PennyGSD said:


> I'm not sure where my vet got 60mg from then as our dog is 32kg = 70.4lbs. At 0.45mg per lb, that would give a minimum active dose of 31.68mg. Maybe the UK has slightly different dosage instructions for some reason
> 
> I think maybe we'll try and taper the dose a little on Jack to see what happens. His pancreatitis symptoms seem to be tapering off as we're down to just 1 Zantac at bedtime now, so maybe once he's completely off Zantac with no intermittent sickness returning it'll be worth a try.
> 
> Good luck - hope it works as well for Alfie as it does for Jack.


Thankyou.
Likewise. Hope Jack can come off most of the drugs 

I'm not sure if the human dose is different


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Oscar is on 50mg three times a day, along with Previcox once a day.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Oscar is on 50mg three times a day, along with Previcox once a day.


How much does the old boy weigh now?
Do you think he's on enough and have you been told you can up the dose?
Vet offered me Previcox but I couldn't then have Cartrophen


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

rona said:


> My vet gave me Tramadol for Alfie yesterday but has basically left the dosing to my discretion, anything between one 50mg tablet a day up to 2x50mg thee times a day.
> That's a lot of leeway, so wondered what others dose
> What dose do you give, how many times a day, how heavy is your dog and how bad was their pain before this?


I can't speak for dogs - my girl came home after surgery with it, but after one dose, clearly didn't need it.

I can speak for humans though - I've been on Tramadol for around 14 months now - it's not a nice drug.

I can imagine your boy is in pain - but I would use it as sparingly as possible if you can.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

rona said:


> How much does the old boy weigh now?
> Do you think he's on enough and have you been told you can up the dose?
> Vet offered me Previcox but I couldn't then have Cartrophen


He's around 19.8kg.

I havent really discussed dosage with Neil as of yet. I do know we have a range to play with though.

He's doing really well on it, but i do make sure i plan his exercise around when the medication is due. He is dosed at 5am, walked between 9am-11.30ish (weather dependant as he can't handle heavy rain) and then dosed again at 1pm. He has his previcox at 7pm, then his next Tramadol at 9pm.

He does seem sore at times, and was restless overnight so i thought he was going to be stiff when we got up, but this morning he was full of beans and threw a wobbly when i had to go out without him, as he thought he was going for a walk. So his behaviour isnt always a good indicator as to how he feels.

In Oscars situation, id rather give him too much, than too little, and i am considering asking about what the next step/level up is. I was naughty and gave him a one off extra dose last saturday and he settled and slept really well, but that might have been down to his long day out.

My vets do give NSAID's alongside carthophen, but only in last chance, no-other-option situations, despite the contraindications. It was something we discussed, but a route i wouldnt go down, not even as a last resort. They have had some great success, but also a couple of disasters.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

swarthy said:


> I can't speak for dogs - my girl came home after surgery with it, but after one dose, clearly didn't need it.
> 
> I can speak for humans though - I've been on Tramadol for around 14 months now - it's not a nice drug.
> 
> I can imagine your boy is in pain - but I would use it as sparingly as possible if you can.


Tramadol doesnt have the same side effects in dogs as it does in people, as canines do not metabolise it into an opioid, whereas humans do.

It is (apparently) one of the more safer pain killing drugs available, with fewer side effects compared to the like of the traditional NSAID's.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Tramadol doesnt have the same side effects in dogs as it does in people, as canines do not metabolise it into an opioid, whereas humans do.
> 
> It is (apparently) one of the more safer pain killing drugs available, with fewer side effects compared to the like of the traditional NSAID's.


I chose it because it's a safer drug but I didn't know about it not metabolising into an opioid.

Where did you get that info from? 
That's one of the things I've been pondering


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

rona said:


> I chose it because it's a safer drug but I didn't know about it not metabolising into an opioid.
> 
> Where did you get that info from?
> That's one of the things I've been pondering


Tramadol American but info is info.

VASG Chronic Pain


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Nonnie said:


> Tramadol doesnt have the same side effects in dogs as it does in people, as canines do not metabolise it into an opioid, whereas humans do.
> 
> It is (apparently) one of the more safer pain killing drugs available, with fewer side effects compared to the like of the traditional NSAID's.


Interesting, thanks for the info - I stand corrected 

It's a horrible drug for humans, yet the docs are churning it out like Smarties claiming it is safer and less addictive than Co-codamol - I take both as recommended by the chronic pain management team, but sometimes wish I hadn't listened 

ETA - Thanks for the link

ETA (for a second time ) yet all the listed possible side effects are verbatim those humans face when taking Opoids - strange


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Tramadol American but info is info.
> 
> VASG Chronic Pain


I looked at that first link before, must have missed that bit.

Does Oscar get constipated at all on it?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

rona said:


> I looked at that first link before, must have missed that bit.
> 
> Does Oscar get constipated at all on it?


He hasnt suffered any side effects at all.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

I thought the only issue with NSAIDs and Cartrophen was that they couldn't have an NSAID for 24 hours either side of the Cartrophen injections?

Jack has had a course of Cartrophen 3 months ago, and when we went for the first one the vet was concerned about giving the first injection as we said he was on Previcox, but when they found out he hadn't had a dose since 6pm the previous night, and it was now 6.10pm the next day, they were happy to go ahead. And for all the injections we just didn't give him a dose 24hrs either side of the injection itself.

Mind you, having seen what has happened to Jack's liver enzymes in the few months he's been on the full dose of Previcox, I don't know if I could ever bring myself to give him another NSAID ever again. Normal range for liver ALT is 10 - 100, and whilst on 1/3 or 2/3s of his full dose it sat at around 200-300 regularly, without climbing any higher for about 18 months, the last reading had shot up to 1929 - probably down to the pancreatitis as well, but as we whipped him off the Previcox immediately and his levels had come down to 1200 in just 3 weeks, it does seem extremely coincidental, especially as there was no apparent improvement in the pancreatitis.

Again, fingers crossed Tramadol and Cartrophen are the combination that work for Alfie.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

PennyGSD said:


> I thought the only issue with NSAIDs and Cartrophen was that they couldn't have an NSAID for 24 hours either side of the Cartrophen injections?
> 
> Jack has had a course of Cartrophen 3 months ago, and when we went for the first one the vet was concerned about giving the first injection as we said he was on Previcox, but when they found out he hadn't had a dose since 6pm the previous night, and it was now 6.10pm the next day, they were happy to go ahead. And for all the injections we just didn't give him a dose 24hrs either side of the injection itself.
> 
> ...


Seems many vets are doing the same with Cartrophen 

FORTE - Cartrophen home page

NSAIDs and in particular aspirin should not be used in combination with Cartrophen Vet as they may affect thrombocyte adhesion and potentiate the anticoagulant activity of Cartrophen Vet

If there's an alternative that's less risky................


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

For Kali, Flynn, Marty and Teebs it's 50mg for every 10kgs body weight. That's what three different vets dosed at. When Marty had pancreatitis and Flynn had his dislocation they had 300mgs three times a day, Kali had 200mgs twice a day but I could up it to three times a day if needed.  In fact I have just given Kali 200mgs as she had difficulty getting up again so she's going to the vet again in the morning. 

Never ending is it. Hope Alfie responds well to his dosage and the vet should really have advised a little better in case you didn't know, at least good old PF has come to the rescue. Love this place I do. :thumbup1:

I have taken Tramadol and it is wonderful with paracetamol, not paracetamol for dogs of course.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Malmum said:


> I have taken Tramadol and it is wonderful with paracetamol, not paracetamol for dogs of course.


IV Tramadol and IV Paracetamol with Oramorph top up sorts you out (what I can remember of it  which isn't a lot!!)

I take Tramadol with Co-codamol three to four times a day every day - it's not quite so wonderful then - particularly when it still doesn't deal with your pain 

Sorry - going OT


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Just to put your mind at rest a little Rona (and mine after feverishly panicking myself) there's another bit of text on that same data sheet

"Do not use concurrently with steroids or non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, including aspirin and phenylbutazone, or within 24 hours of such administration."


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Malmum said:


> For Kali, Flynn, Marty and Teebs it's 50mg for every 10kgs body weight. That's what three different vets dosed at. When Marty had pancreatitis and Flynn had his dislocation they had 300mgs three times a day, Kali had 200mgs twice a day but I could up it to three times a day if needed.  In fact I have just given Kali 200mgs as she had difficulty getting up again so she's going to the vet again in the morning.
> 
> Never ending is it. Hope Alfie responds well to his dosage and the vet should really have advised a little better in case you didn't know, at least good old PF has come to the rescue. Love this place I do. :thumbup1:
> 
> I have taken Tramadol and it is wonderful with paracetamol, not paracetamol for dogs of course.


Don't get me wrong, the vet has just given me all possible doses to work around because she can't see Alfie all the time and his needs vary.
I wasn't upset at all with that scenario and am pleased she treats me as a capable owner.
The only reason I asked the question was to get a rough idea what others use and for what (extent of pain)

The other questions have arisen because of other peoples vets not mine. I rate mine very highly


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

PennyGSD said:


> Just to put your mind at rest a little Rona (and mine after feverishly panicking myself) there's another bit of text on that same data sheet
> 
> "Do not use concurrently with steroids or non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, including aspirin and phenylbutazone, or within 24 hours of such administration."


Yes but to me that says that they should not be used together at all and definitely not within 24 hours of using NSAIDs under any condition


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

rona said:


> Yes but to me that says that they should not be used together at all and definitely not within 24 hours of using NSAIDs under any condition


And to me that reads as not be to given at the same time (so not to pop a NSAID at the same time as giving an injection), but to leave a minimum of 24 hours between each.

Anyway, I'm in no way disagreeing with you, honest - the written word can be far more difficult to interpret than spoken - and I'm not even sure why I'm labouring the point as it's not ever going to be an issue with my dog again as NSAIDs are most certainly off the menu anyway.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

PennyGSD said:


> And to me that reads as not be to given at the same time (so not to pop a NSAID at the same time as giving an injection), but to leave a minimum of 24 hours between each.
> 
> Anyway, I'm in no way disagreeing with you, honest - the written word can be far more difficult to interpret than spoken - and I'm not even sure why I'm labouring the point as it's not ever going to be an issue with my dog again as NSAIDs are most certainly off the menu anyway.


If it stays in the system then surely it is at the same time? 

I think I may email them to clarify 

Email sent


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

The half life of Previcox is quoted as 7.8hrs, so would in theory be completely out of their system in 15.6hrs. Even allowing for the delayed effect of food, and the fact that all dogs are different, I'm kind of hoping it's reasonable to assume that it would be gone from all dogs within 24 hours. Or would certainly be at such a minimal level that it wouldn't interact with anything else.

Jack never experienced any issues the 2 together may have caused anyway (phew), and won't ever in the future as NSAIDs simply won't be happening, but I'll be really interested to hear responses from the horse's mouth. Are you emailing Cartrophen manufacturers or Previcox?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

The cartrophen people FORTE Healthcare Ltd I've never used Previcox 
you are quite welcome to try Merial 
See if they come back with the same answer 

uk.merial.com : Pet Owners : Dogs : Products


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## catseyes (Sep 10, 2010)

I hope your boy is ok.. i dont have experience of tramadol in dogs but have read the info and its really interesting to know..

and swarthy... you're not the only one im on cocodamol, tramadol, ibuprofen, gabapentin and amitriptyline!! Fuzzy heads r on me lol!

So nice on here that everyone helps and looks for info.

hugs to alfie x


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## Kc Mac (Jul 26, 2011)

My Kc is a 15kg Staffordshire bull terror . She has chronic arthritis in both wrists and elbows diagnosed by xrays earlier this year. She was not weight bearing on a front leg, hence the xrays to determine how bad the arthritis was and to rule out anything more sinister! The X-rays also showed a 'floating piece of bone' in the wrist 

She is on Tramadol 50mg. Started on one every 8 hours, then every 12 hours. She is still on one twice daily as necessary, however we miss out the odd one a couple of times a week, especially if we are having a quiet day 

The Tramadol has made such a difference to her quality of life it makes me wonder why the vet didn't suggest it years ago  

Kc also has metacam which I have managed to reduce to 10kg dose :biggrin: she also has acupuncture every 3 weeks and daily suppliments of green lipped mussel, msm, salmon oil and is fed on raw . She also gets arnica if she over does the exercise and when I can persuade her to take it Kc gets heckla lava too 

I hope my waffle is of some help


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

catseyes said:


> and swarthy... you're not the only one im on cocodamol, tramadol, ibuprofen, gabapentin and amitriptyline!! Fuzzy heads r on me lol!


:lol: - tell me - I have to say, with my background in nursing (before I realised I was better suited to other things) and my time in the pharmaceutical industry - to me, Tramadol and co-codamol together was a big no no

I'm on co-codamol, tramadol, amitryptyline, Baclofen and intermittent diazepam - I had the most horrific reaction to Gabapentin - it was so bad I seriously thought I was going to die - Temgesic didn't do anything for me either causing an unpleasant reaction  I can't take Ibuprofen atm because of the pancreatitis and it being a possible trigger 

Again - I am surprised at doctors prescribing Gabapentin and Tramadol (plus of course Codeine) - the potential for adverse interactions is high as I discovered 

It's a catch 22 situation - the current combination doesn't dull the pain and no longer wallops me either 

Sorry OP and everyone else - gone way OT 

================

ETA (and going back on topic) - I have noticed quite a marked difference in my girl now she is back on the Yumove coupled with the Dorwest Garlic and Fenugreek and Dorwest Mixed vegetable tablets


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## catseyes (Sep 10, 2010)

swarthy said:


> :lol: - tell me - I have to say, with my background in nursing (before I realised I was better suited to other things) and my time in the pharmaceutical industry - to me, Tramadol and co-codamol together was a big no no
> 
> I'm on co-codamol, tramadol, amitryptyline, Baclofen and intermittent diazepam - I had the most horrific reaction to Gabapentin - it was so bad I seriously thought I was going to die - Temgesic didn't do anything for me either causing an unpleasant reaction  I can't take Ibuprofen atm because of the pancreatitis and it being a possible trigger
> 
> ...


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

catseyes said:


> I have a GP, Gynae, gastroenterologist and a pain specialist that work together on me, had 9 surgeries in 4 years. Sucks doesnt it.
> 
> Sorry OP - the tramadol has taken the thread onto human aches. il shush now x


Have any of the surgeries worked? I am being told I can't have surgery on any of my back problems apart from Facet Joint Injections (which didn't work) - I am under the chronic pain management team but don't actually feel like I've got anything out of it 

Sorry  I'll shush as well now


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

Dont know if you have tried Previcox? but had good results here with it on my last two Labs


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Kinjilabs said:


> Dont know if you have tried Previcox? but had good results here with it on my last two Labs


Can you give a more detail on it? is it similar to cartophen?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

PennyGSD said:


> Just to put your mind at rest a little Rona (and mine after feverishly panicking myself) there's another bit of text on that same data sheet
> 
> "Do not use concurrently with steroids or non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, including aspirin and phenylbutazone, or within 24 hours of such administration."





rona said:


> If it stays in the system then surely it is at the same time?
> 
> I think I may email them to clarify
> 
> Email sent


Have had a reply from Forte Healthcare.

They state that if a dog is on Catrophen, in 99.99% of cases they will not need extra drugs, however they do say "as a rule". that other drugs can be given after 24 hours 

Hope that's clarified that :thumbsup:


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

99.99%.... leaves the door open just enough for those people who've tried it and still needed other drugs. Probably for the same reason, my vet also told me that they'd only ever had ONE dog where Cartrophen didn't give any sign of improvement.

My OH and I fell about laughing at this, as Jack is the third GSD we've tried Cartrophen on, and it made not the slightest difference to the previous TWO!

Luckily it has seemed to work a bit better on Jack.

Thanks so much for clearing that up. I think in the unlikely event we were to mix NSAIDS and Cartrophen again, I personally might be inclined to leave it a minimum of 3 days after the last NSAID tablet, especially as the official answer only seems to refer to after the injection, not before - there's always Tramadol to supplement for any pain this might cause.

How's the Tramadol working on Alfie? Seen any improvement yet?


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## sinth (Mar 5, 2016)

how safe is cartophen?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

sinth said:


> how safe is cartophen?


Very safe as far as I could ascertain


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