# My dog keeps going for me, Help



## fannackerpan (Jul 9, 2012)

Can anyone offer any advice on this matter?
I have a 6 month old german shepherd x huskie. She is absolutley beautiful. However, about 2/3 months ago she got hold of one of my sons socks, and growled visciously as I tried to get it off her.
I spoke to my dog trainer who advised to distract her with something else. This worked for a while. But now she has progeressed to food. For example, after finishing her food, I was sat in the kitchen and called her over to me. She sat near to me with her head slightly down, as I talked gently to her she grumbled and growled, I raised my voice saying no Sasha and she went for my wrist. Another time she got a hold of my wrist in a firm grip as i picked up a bowl she had finished licking. As I moved the bowl away she stood and got a good grip of my arm and raised herself onto her hind legs, growling and barking. This she has done numerous times in similar situations.
Even when she has nothing and I just go to stroke her on her bed of living room floor she will growl and look at me in what I would call a "dont you dare" kind of way.
I dont know whether it's just a warning she is giving me because she doesnt actually bite down, she just gets a good grip.
I have tried putting her out of the room, or getting hold of the scruff of her neck and putting her on the floor, as a pack leader may do with a pup. But its seems to be getting worse. She's also not hte most affectionate dog I've ever had, apart from first thing in the morning, then she will wag her tail, put ears down and want to lick you. But any other time she's not that bothered.
I'm at my witts end, I don't want to give her up.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

You need to forget about the pack leader crap, you grabbing her by the collar and holding her is making this problem worse. You're scaring her and showinng her that you're inconsistent and that's why she's growling at you. I recommend you read up on positive training methods and erase anything you may have learned from anyone like Cesar Milan who uses outdated methods. There is also a sticky at the topic of this forum regarding dog body language, look into it and learn to read your dogs warning signals so you realise she is actually fearful. You need to back off and be positive with her instead.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

fannackerpan said:


> Can anyone offer any advice on this matter?
> I have a 6 month old german shepherd x huskie. She is absolutley beautiful. However, about 2/3 months ago she got hold of one of my sons socks, and growled visciously as I tried to get it off her.
> I spoke to my dog trainer who advised to distract her with something else. This worked for a while. But now she has progeressed to food. For example, after finishing her food, I was sat in the kitchen and called her over to me. She sat near to me with her head slightly down, as I talked gently to her she grumbled and growled, I raised my voice saying no Sasha and she went for my wrist. Another time she got a hold of my wrist in a firm grip as i picked up a bowl she had finished licking. As I moved the bowl away she stood and got a good grip of my arm and raised herself onto her hind legs, growling and barking. This she has done numerous times in similar situations.
> Even when she has nothing and I just go to stroke her on her bed of living room floor she will growl and look at me in what I would call a "dont you dare" kind of way.
> ...


It sounds like there may have been a complete breakdown in communication and relationship between you and this dog.

Have you been raising your voice and telling her off for growling and how long have you been doing the scruffing and putting her down on the floor. Growling is a warning there is something up and the dogs not comfortable, punish or reprimand for the growling and they often wont bother to do it, or if its not taken heed of thats they are not comfortable and you persist then they will go to snapping and even biting eventually.

The fact that she isnt wanting to interact with you now and even if you try to stroke her she growls, she doesnt sound like she is happy. Even though she greets you in the mornings that I think you said is the only time even that sounds half hearted and perhaps even unsure with the ears down and licking.

I notice you said that you have a trainer, what sort of methods does your trainer use, is it reward based training, or does he use adversives and punishment? Have you ever taken her food bowl from her or things "training" her to give them up in the past.


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## fannackerpan (Jul 9, 2012)

Cesar who? Never heard of him! 
I am in process of reading the body language thing now, thanks. How do I handle it though when she goes for me? 
Do I turn my back, ignoring her and walk out? or speak firmly telling her to get in her bed, while she has a hold of my wrist? *How do I handle it???? *
Her paws reach my face when she raises up and could quite easily bite my face if she had a mind to. I got it that trying to be the dominant one hasnt worked, and has probably exacerbated the situation.


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

How do you train her? Have you taught her the basics, sit, down, leave, come, etc? What is she fed? 
Have you taught her that you being near her bowl and toys is a good thing? What is she like with other people/dogs? Does she behave when out on walks?

Sorry, lots of questions!


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## scarter (Apr 26, 2009)

We had a situation like this with our little Beagle boy. We got him at 7.5 weeks old. First day he got hold of a sock (off my foot!). I tried to take it off him and he just about took my finger off! Now our girl might have fought me for the sock in a playful way, but with the boy it was different - more like resource guarding. 

I called our trainer right away and she said never to force the issue. Just back off and avoid getting into that situation again. In the meantime teach him a 'swapsie' game, train the dog to do something that gets the result you want in around about way without confrontation. 

Well, long story short but like you, things got worse and worse. Next you couldn't ask him to get off the sofa, leave the kitchen. You couldn't even look at him the wrong way eventually. We consulted various trainers and lots of experienced dog people and all said the same thing - teach the swapsie game and never force the issue or the dog will escalate to biting. The trouble is, you could never predict what the dog was going to take exception to next, so you either had to force the issue first time it happened or back off. We were advised to back off every time.

By the time he was 2 years old he was calling all the shots. It wasn't dangerous as there are no kids in the house and he's just a little Beagle. But not a good situation.

Finally we called in a behaviourist. She said the wost thing we could do is back off. She had us put our boy on a light lead around the house for a few days so we could enforce things like 'off the sofa' 'out of the kitchen' without being bitten. She showed us how to hold his collar so that he couldn't turn his head and snap then firmly hold what he has in his mouth - don't tug at it, just hold it and in a couple of seconds he just lets go. Then big rewards. That did the trick really - never had an issue since. We still use the swapsie game, but nowadays we don't NEED to because he'll generally just do as he's told. I can't say we did anything to cause this overnight change in our boy. It was more just a mental attitude of 'I'm in charge' - he seemed to want someone to take charge and has been much more relaxed and settled ever since.

Our behaviourist said that lots of problems are caused by people mixing up 'positive' with 'permissive'. I have to admit, I can see how we inadvertently trained our dog to growl in order to get his own way. But it's what we were advised to do.

But with a big dog I wouldn't mess around trying any of this without hands on guidance!


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## fannackerpan (Jul 9, 2012)

No I havent been shouting at her for growling. I *do *understand that growling is a warning that 'something' is the matter. ie like the first instance she did it, it was because i tried to take a sock off her and she didnt want to give it up. I spoke to her gently that time and it had no effect. I had to just take it off her. She is the same with slippers!

RE the 'scruffing and putting her down on the floor' I did that each time she 'proper' went for me, a handful of times up until couple of days ago, realising it wasn't working.
She doesnt have a trainer, she went on a 6 week puppy class a couple of months back, learning sit/down/recall etc, which was reward based.
'not a happy dog'.........she has never been the wag her tail a lot type of dog (I've had her from 8weeks) She greets everyone the same way......tail waggin, ears down.....licking etc. Everyone, even other dogs, not just me. she's just not a tail wagger any other time, such as when I praise her, I interprit that as not being affectionate!

I didn't say she didnt want to interact with me, she does. She constantly wants to play fetch/catch etc with her toys.
I haven't taken her toys or food away from her for training, but I have put my hand in her bowl while she was feeding, and she was ok with that, though now she growls when I go near her eating or even when she has finished and moved away from her bowl.

I grew up with dog's and have had my own for the last 25 years or so (pups and rescue's) and have never had this problem before, thats why I am stumped and dont know how to handle it when she go's for me.
I love Sash and would hate to have to giver her up. I just need to know how to deal best to deal with this situation.



Sled dog hotel said:


> It sounds like there may have been a complete breakdown in communication and relationship between you and this dog.
> 
> Have you been raising your voice and telling her off for growling and how long have you been doing the scruffing and putting her down on the floor. Growling is a warning there is something up and the dogs not comfortable, punish or reprimand for the growling and they often wont bother to do it, or if its not taken heed of thats they are not comfortable and you persist then they will go to snapping and even biting eventually.
> 
> ...


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

To try and solve the bowl problem. When it's food time put an empty bowl on the floor, add her food to the bowl bit by bit, if using dry food just drop it in the bowl, don't look at her or talk to her. Have some extra tasty treats and when she starts to look at you for the next bit of food, drop a bit of that in. Eventually she will want you to be near her bowl!


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## fannackerpan (Jul 9, 2012)

Thanks for this advice Scarter, much appreciated :thumbup1:


scarter said:


> We had a situation like this with our little Beagle boy. We got him at 7.5 weeks old. First day he got hold of a sock (off my foot!). I tried to take it off him and he just about took my finger off! Now our girl might have fought me for the sock in a playful way, but with the boy it was different - more like resource guarding.
> 
> I called our trainer right away and she said never to force the issue. Just back off and avoid getting into that situation again. In the meantime teach him a 'swapsie' game, train the dog to do something that gets the result you want in around about way without confrontation.
> 
> ...


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## fannackerpan (Jul 9, 2012)

She has been doing sit/lie down since she was a a month or so old. She's ok sometimes with 'leave' and when she was younger she was good with recall. but now she's kinda in her teenage state, recall is a bit more difficult as she is more confident when out.
She is good with other dogs when we're on the park. Though, she is dominent with smaller dogs and submissive with same size/bigger, and boisterous with both. She has never gone for another dog.

Her toys are not a problem. I did teach her that my being near her food was a good thing. I have done the hand feeding bits/putting fingers in bowl/treating/praising etc and she was fine until recently as explained in other posts.



Tollisty said:


> How do you train her? Have you taught her the basics, sit, down, leave, come, etc? What is she fed?
> Have you taught her that you being near her bowl and toys is a good thing? What is she like with other people/dogs? Does she behave when out on walks?
> 
> Sorry, lots of questions!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

fannackerpan said:


> She has been doing sit/lie down since she was a a month or so old. She's ok sometimes with 'leave' and *when she was younger she was good with recall. but now she's kinda in her teenage state, recall is a bit more difficult as she is more confident when out*.
> She is good with other dogs when we're on the park. Though, she is dominent with smaller dogs and submissive with same size/bigger, and boisterous with both. She has never gone for another dog.
> 
> Her toys are not a problem. I did teach her that my being near her food was a good thing. I have done the hand feeding bits/putting fingers in bowl/treating/praising etc and she was fine until recently as explained in other posts.


Could be the husky in her, their recall isn't very reliable & most owners choose not to let them offlead at all unless they're in a secure fenced area


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

fannackerpan said:


> She doesnt have a trainer, she went on a 6 week puppy class a couple of months back, learning sit/down/recall etc, which was reward based.
> 'not a happy dog'.........she has never been the wag her tail a lot type of dog (I've had her from 8weeks) She greets everyone the same way......tail waggin, ears down.....licking etc. Everyone, even other dogs, not just me. she's just not a tail wagger any other time, such as when I praise her, I interprit that as not being affectionate!


You have a breed or cross breed that really isn't the ideal 'affectionate' pet. I'm not saying she can't be both a pet and affectionate but these are thinking/working breeds. IMO, the fashion for having these breeds as pets causes a lot of problems because they are understimulated.

I would continue to take her to classes, puppy classes are really just to start with. There are plenty of things you can get involved with and it will really help to build the relationship with her.


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## fannackerpan (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeah I have heard that about huskies. though the real problem is the attacking issue


simplysardonic said:


> Could be the husky in her, their recall isn't very reliable & most owners choose not to let them offlead at all unless they're in a secure fenced area


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## fannackerpan (Jul 9, 2012)

I don't really mind if she is affectionate or not really, just trying to give an overall impression of her. I can live with stand-offish, but I'm not going to live with agression.


rocco33 said:


> You have a breed or cross breed that really isn't the ideal 'affectionate' pet. I'm not saying she can't be both a pet and affectionate but these are thinking/working breeds. IMO, the fashion for having these breeds as pets causes a lot of problems because they are understimulated.
> 
> I would continue to take her to classes, puppy classes are really just to start with. There are plenty of things you can get involved with and it will really help to build the relationship with her.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

fannackerpan said:


> I don't really mind if she is affectionate or not really, just trying to give an overall impression of her. I can live with stand-offish, but I'm not going to live with agression.


Well, it won't change her character, just build up a better relationship with you. My apologies for being blunt, but dogs aren't just aggressive for the sake of it, she is obviously not understanding what you are asking of her. A lifetime of dog ownership does not necessarily prepare one for what can be a demanding breed/crossbreed, so would still recommend you go to training sessions with her. Dog training is not about training your dog, but training YOU to be able to train your dog.
APDT have a list of trainers according to area.


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## scarter (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm sure there are lots of good trainers out there so not wanting to put anyone down. But APDT qualified doesn't mean an awful lot. With aggression I'd go with a behaviorist if I were you. We went to ADPT trainers and got nowhere. Solved overnight with a behaviorist. Your vet could perhaps recommend one? In actual fact, something they always say with aggression is to check with the vet first just to make sure there's not some underlying health issue triggering it.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

scarter said:


> I'm sure there are lots of good trainers out there so not wanting to put anyone down. But APDT qualified doesn't mean an awful lot. With aggression I'd go with a behaviorist if I were you. We went to ADPT trainers and got nowhere. Solved overnight with a behaviorist. Your vet could perhaps recommend one? In actual fact, something they always say with aggression is to check with the vet first just to make sure there's not some underlying health issue triggering it.


I understand what you are saying, but this is a 6 month puppy. There is clearly a breakdown and the owner does not have the skills to train her. There are some very good trainers who are not APDT members too, but as a general rule, it provides a minimum standard. I'd also add that there are many behaviourists who call themselves such and aren't any good either.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Have you tried hand feeding her to build up a bond between you?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Personally I would speak to a behaviourist and get her and the situation properly asessed. Once the problems are identified properly, then a behaviourist will work with you and give you a proper tailor made management and behaviour modification programme.

CAPBT - COAPE Association of Pet Behaviourists and Trainers E-Mail [email protected] will find one in your area.

Sometimes the unwanted behaviour is just the tip of the iceberg and the end product, there can be a lot of things going on under the surface thats the actual root cause.

What can be seen an agression isnt the classic aggresion that sometimes people think it is. I believe that something like 85% if I remember rightly that
appears as agressive behaviour is in fact defensive agression and comes from uncertainty and even fear.Only a qualified behavioursit can assess her properly and find the proper cause.

Personally I think the scruffing and alpha rolling may have caused more harm then good and exacerbated the problem, especially if it is a problem caused by anxiety or uncertainty in the first place.


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## fannackerpan (Jul 9, 2012)

Personally, I don't think she is in the least bit fearful, it all started with her not wanting to give up socks or slippers. She did this a couple of times and as stated earlier, the distraction thing worked for a short while. The only way to get it of her was by force (and I dont mean I beat her) before anyone jumps down my throat!
After a few instances she turned and bit me, not braking the skin, but still painfull. This then pregressed to other situations.

I will definately look at APBT and trainers etc in my area


Sled dog hotel said:


> Personally I would speak to a behaviourist and get her and the situation properly asessed. Once the problems are identified properly, then a behaviourist will work with you and give you a proper tailor made management and behaviour modification programme.
> 
> CAPBT - COAPE Association of Pet Behaviourists and Trainers E-Mail [email protected] will find one in your area.
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2012)

Aggression is almost always fear based (unless youre talking prey drive, and I doubt your dog sees you as prey). I agree with SDH, I think the scruffing, laying her on the floor, and pack leader stuff has very likely made a normal resource guarding situation escalate in to a dog who chooses to go for you before you go for her.

I can tell you with utmost certainty that without intervention, every time this dog bites you it is going to get worse. Every time she bites you, her fuse is getting shorter and she is losing inhibition. These things do NOT sort themselves out, they do get worse. She WILL bite you or someone else quicker and harder each time. It needs to stop now. You dont need to be asking what to do WHEN she bites, you need to be asking how to prevent the bite all together.

If she is not already, she needs to be desensitized to a muzzle.

This is most definitely a situation where you need to hire a professional. Advice over the internet can only go so far, and without actually seeing the dog in person, and you interacting with the dog, a lot of pertinent details can be left out. IOW, seek professional advice and NOT from anyone who talks about being alpha or pack leader.


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## scarter (Apr 26, 2009)

Good luck with this fannakerpan - it sounds very much like our situation and I really sympathize. In our case it wasn't fear or prey based. Just a simple case of the dog learning that growling got desired results.

Off the sofa Fido! grrrr - Oh, OK, how about we try something nice instead.

Gimme the sock Fido! grrr - Oh, OK, how about a nice game of swapsie instead?

I was told by one person that most dogs won't use aggression in this way (as a means of getting what they want) - my girl certainly doesn't. But an approximate 1 in 10 dogs will. Don't know the full details of that though I'm afraid.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2012)

I very much disagree that resource guarding is not fear based. Resource guarding is about fear of losing the resource.

If a dog learns that growling makes the scary thing (human who might take away the resource) go away, that is exactly what they will do. Yes, it is growling to get what they want, but that doesnt mean it isnt based in fear.

The best example I can give is our own dog, who came to us with a bite history after having gone after the tester holding the assess-a-hand at the shelter. This dog never showed any guarding issues with our 3 other dogs - all of whom have appropriate food manners. This dog only had issues with humans because of a long history of humans messing with his resources. He was afraid his signals would not be heeded, he was afraid of losing his resource. His aggression was very much based in fear. Granted when 140 pounds of angry great dane lashes out at you, fear is not what most people see, but that is exactly what it was all about.

History is also what makes b-mod with established resource guarders harder. Once the dog has developed a history of mistrust with the owner it takes more work that in a situation like ours where our relationship with the dog was basically a blank slate. 

Im saying this not to argue, but to give fannackerpan a perspective that may help him/her see the dog in a different light and thus make it easier for them to approach the problem with new eyes.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

scarter said:


> We had a situation like this with our little Beagle boy. We got him at 7.5 weeks old. First day he got hold of a sock (off my foot!). I tried to take it off him and he just about took my finger off! Now our girl might have fought me for the sock in a playful way, but with the boy it was different - more like resource guarding.
> 
> I called our trainer right away and she said never to force the issue. Just back off and avoid getting into that situation again. In the meantime teach him a 'swapsie' game, train the dog to do something that gets the result you want in around about way without confrontation.
> 
> ...


I agree with this advice completely.

fannackerpan I hope that you've found some resolution in the last few days. It's so hard when you have a dog that becomes wilful and this is the result. All I can say is talk to your vet or seek out a professional and one that most importantly your dog is happy with.

We had a fully qualified trainer at a group class and whilst she was lovely, her methods (all perfectly legit and kind) were based around holding Molly's collar tightly until she calmed. Molly actually learns that time out is better. I guess what I mean is that if I hadn't found our lovely new trainer, I may not still have Molly. Do please talk to your vet and see if you can get a referral and give your dog a chance. Under all that bravado is a dog trying very hard to work out what to do. You just need the right person to help you and they are there.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

No advice really other than training classes have worked wonders for one of my Mals. Also you have a very difficult cross on the Husky side, don't know about the GSD in her. Her recall will be pants and her prey drive will be massive if the Husky trait in her is strong. I have three Mals and they are not an ordinary domesticated breed, they are far more primal and were bred to run and pull, not fetch slippers and sit beside a log fire. Husky's prey drive is equal to a Mals but they are much faster and can catch their prey more easily, so off lead with small dogs around as she gets older could be a no no. Recall is very bad too and if a rabbit comes into view you'll have a job getting her back. Husky's are more energetic than a Mal, they run faster and longer, Mals are more steady trotters - the reason I would never have a Husky, far too energetic for me. lol. 

I don't know anything about GSD's but I do know Huskys and Mals need a good leader and I don't mean 'decking' it but being consistent, firm but fair. Kisses and cuddles just don't 'do it' for these guys, they can take them or leave them. They are great escape artists so I hope the GSD in her makes her a little less energetic and mischievous!

You may find that once she reaches adulthood she will settle down but with these kinds of breeds they take a long while to fully mature - Mals can take up to four years and I believe Husky's are similar.

Good luck with the training, it may take a while but you'll get there eventually and have a lovely dog I'd wager.


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