# Genetics advice on Cinnamon and Fawn colours



## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi - I just wondering if anyone out there has any specific knowledge of Cinnamon and Fawn.

I am just beginning work with these colours with Siamese and Orientals and was under the impression that Fawn would only occur if Cinnamon and Dilute were definitly present on both sides.

Have now got a 9 week old kitten in a litter from an Oriental Black who carries Cinnamon and Siamese and a Seal Point Siamese boy who carries dilute but not cinnamon who I am at a loss with on colour and swear she looks Fawn???? Confusion is compounded by the fact she is Siamese so colour still developing and not as clear cut as in an Oriental.

I have an Oriental Fawn boy (cant be a paternity issue as he only came to us 6 weeks ago and kittens were already born!!!!) for comparison.

I originally said this kitten could be Lilac as very pale and colour very slow to come in, then Chocolate as colour came through brown toned not pinky grey, then Caramel as colour very light compared to definite chocolate point sister, now doubting Caramel as she has vitually no colour at all on her paws and the tone is wrong where I can see it on her tail and face.

Need to know if Fawn is a definite possibilty if Cinnamon only on one side or definitly not possible as just going on the look of her she can only be Fawn or otherwise a very, very pale late developing chocolate and would like to register her - if I can rule out impossibilities it will help.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Fawn is dilute cinnamon, and cinnamon is recessive to both chocolate and black, so yes, you have to have both dilute and cinnamon on both sides and the genetic roulette has to fall correctly.

You didn't say what colour the Siamese is, but you are correct - the kitten can't be fawn if you are correct about what the cats carry.

Having said that, a friend's cat had two blue-points and whilst the stud was blue-point, the closest dilute ancestor was a great-grandparent so as they say, recessives are forever.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi - thanks for that, thats clear cut enough for me to register her as Chocolate, father is Seal Point Siamese who carries dilute and I am eight generations back into his pedigree so far and cant find any cinnamon or fawn!

Mum not the issue as has a Cinnamon grnadparent so am expecting (and hoping) she is a carrier.

The little mystery girls destiny is to have a liasion with my Oriental Fawn boy next year as she is staying with me. 

I have a couple of photos of the tails and ears of her and her Choc Point sister - will try to post for comparison.

Thanks again.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Some pics for comparison altough photos dont show the colour differences as clear as in the flesh where there is quite a difference.

Am posting pics of mystery and chocolate girls paw pads, choc on right, mystery girl has virtually no colour coming through as yet, tails the dark one is the chocolate girl and also one of mystery girls ears and lastly a photo of both feeding from Mum.

Looking at her as a chocolate she is very very pale and hoping this could be a good omen for 'milk chocolate' points. 

Am hoping she is a cinnamon carrier!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Hard to tell from the photos, but if both cats carry dilute then I'd suspect Lilac.

Since mum has a cinnamon grandparent then she has a 50% chance of being a carrier - the parent will be a carrier.

BTW when I started going to GCCF shows again a year or two back I was very impressed with how far cinnamon Orientals have come in the past 10 years. Back then they were usually very unsound with a lot of ghost tabby markings. Also saw a lovely fawn siamese girl a little while back, she was so pretty.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

I had always been a tabby devotee and started breeding Tabby Point Siamese in around 1992.....I took a break from breeding just around the time when 'strange lilacs' were becoming Caramels and 'hot creams' were becoming Apricots!!!

Eleven years later I started visiting shows again just for a nosey although ultimatley I knew where this would lead 

At first I wasnt sure about the newer colours and for the last 3 years or so have concerntrated on Seal, Blue, Lilac, Chocolate but my girls had other ideas and there are only so many Caramels you can raise for 13 weeks without wanting to keep 'the one'!

At last years Supreme I was, like you say, really impressed with the Cinnamon and Fawn cats, kittens and neuters there....you know what I mean if I say I just had to keep going back to have another look, last thing before leaving the show I went back to have another look and couldnt stop thinking about them, particularly the Fawn colour and how stunning it is.

Already had my lovely Oriental Black girl who I knew had Cinnamon in her pedigree so the idea started to form about taking her to a Cinnamon or Fawn boy.......not that easy to find and was looking for an outcross pedigree just to make it extra difficult.

I have been incredibly lucky that a lovely lady has let me have my own Oriental Fawn boy on the Active Register that she had originally kept for herself and when I saw him and his pedigree I couldnt believe my luck - Storm is 9 months old now so later this year will have the first kittens from him although these will be with my Caramel Point Siamese girl and my Choc Tabby Siamese girl and it will be 2013 before I see my own Cinnamon and hopefully Fawn kittens from My Oriental Black girl and my 'mystery girl'.


Re 'mystery girl' - thanks for your advice on the lilac aspect, both parents definitly carry dilute so I'm now back to lilac or chocolate, first kitten i've ever had that has foxed me to this degree!


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