# previous vet refusing to provide medical history



## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

So I've submitted a claim to my insurnace for Coles. Its the first claim I've ever made. I contacted my insurance company yesterday for an update and they advised they were waiting on medical history from previous vets.

I therefore contacted previous vets. The vet stated when I transferred vets the notes would have been requested and sent on. The vet also advised under RCVS guidelines he was not obliged to disclose the notes to me or my insurance company since my current vet should have a copy.

I then contacted my current vets who advised they could not find the medical history from previous vets. My current vet contacted my old vets and they have refused point blank to provide the notes.

My insurance company has also spoke with the pervious vets twice and they have refused to provide the notes.

The insurance company and mt current vet have advised me to complain to RCVS. I have sent my complaint this afternoon.

The insurance have said they cannot pay any claim without those notes.

My concern is they have lost the notes why else would they refuse? 

So basically I may never get paid out for coles's and the insurance I've been paying all these years could be a waste of money.

What can I do if I don't get these notes with regards the insurance?


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

How awful; I am afraid I don't know where you stand but i very, very much hope the issue's resolved quickly.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

that sounds dreadful. How long have you been with the current vets, if it is for the majority of the time and the vet still refuses to pass the notes on I would push for the insurance company to waive their right to refuse to pay. I have twice had fights with insurance companies and ended up being paid out though in both cases they were technically allowed not to pay.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

So do I dogless. Its a worry. My vet and the insuranve quote code of conduct or something like that, that they are obliged to provide the records. The vets with holding the records have said they are speaking to their QC as they don't have to disclose the records.

What is QC in the vet world? I take it to mean queens counsel, a prosecuting barrister!


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Hmm, that is a bit of a weird one. Have they said why they are refusing to send the clinical history? who did you speak to? I suggest arranging to meet the practice manager of your old vet to discuss it as stuff like this can get lost in translation over the phone.

Assuming your dog has been treated by your new vets since you switched, your new vets must have had his clinical history?


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Is that not illegal under the freedom of informations act?


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Blitz said:


> that sounds dreadful. How long have you been with the current vets, if it is for the majority of the time and the vet still refuses to pass the notes on I would push for the insurance company to waive their right to refuse to pay. I have twice had fights with insurance companies and ended up being paid out though in both cases they were technically allowed not to pay.


I have had several conversations with the insurance about when a decision will be made to pay out or not and they are being very vague. They advise the claim will remain open until the notes are received. TBH I don't think they know because they have said no vet has ever refused medical notes. Its unheard off. My current vet said that too.

Coles was at this practice from 1999 to 2010.


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## BenBoy (Aug 31, 2013)

Jugsmalone said:


> I have had several conversations with the insurance about when a decision will be made to pay out or not and they are being very vague. They advise the claim will remain open until the notes are received. TBH I don't think they know because they have said no vet has ever refused medical notes. Its unheard off. My current vet said that too.
> 
> Coles was at this practice from 1999 to 2010.


It was only 3 years ago....surely its computerised. I would be going ape and be getting myself down there in person.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

labradrk said:


> Hmm, that is a bit of a weird one. Have they said why they are refusing to send the clinical history? who did you speak to? I suggest arranging to meet the practice manager of your old vet to discuss it as stuff like this can get lost in translation over the phone.
> 
> Assuming your dog has been treated by your new vets since you switched, your new vets must have had his clinical history?


Isn't it just weird. I spoke with the owner of the practice, the vet and they are refusing me the notes. There is only one vet at the practice and they are the owner also. My current vets have admitted they have mislaid the notes.

The reason I left this vet was because they were always trying to sell me food and did not seem interested in my dogs. I didn't like the vets attitude, rude and obnixous (my current vet also said this as did my insurance) and this vet made a serious misdisgnoses for which I am thankful I sort a second opinion.

ETA they are refusing on the basis that they have provided them previously to my current vets and under the RCVS guidelines they therefore do not need to disclose the notes.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

sezeelson said:


> Is that not illegal under the freedom of informations act?


I was going to send them a letter quoting s13 of the data protecion act but my insurance advised the quickest route would be complaining to RCVS.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

BenBoy said:


> It was only 3 years ago....surely its computerised. I would be going ape and be getting myself down there in person.


I'm wasting my time TBH. I'll go ape if RCVS don't get me the records. I am annoyed over it. Fortunaetly, Coles never really had anything wrong with him till around 10 years.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Mmm If they have already sent the notes then I would think the blame lays squarely with your current vet.

Have you offered your old vet any fee for finding and supplying your notes again?


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

rona said:


> Mmm If they have already sent the notes then I would think the blame lays squarely with your current vet.
> 
> Have you offered your old vet any fee for finding and supplying your notes again?


Even if I offered a fee they will refuse. They are determined not to provide the notes and under the data protection act I have requested the records and I was told they did not need to provide them to me, but they do.

Regardless of who's fault it is I'm the one who is stcuk in the middle. I just want the notes.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

If that doesn't work then get on to trading standards? I'm sure they deal with these sorts of things!

How frustrating for you 
I demand copies of any treatments copied for me to take home as soon as anything is done. 

That way I have a paper record no matter what.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

sezeelson said:


> If that doesn't work then get on to trading standards? I'm sure they deal with these sorts of things!
> 
> How frustrating for you
> I demand copies of any treatments copied for me to take home as soon as anything is done.
> ...


Good Idea. I've never thought of that. 

What is bizarre in this case is, I've made a claim for Buster on my insurance and before I got Buster the previous owner had Buster registered at the same vets as Coles and he handed the notes to my new vet for Buster and supplied the insurance company with a copy without any problems!


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

Have you presented yourself at the surgery in person. I and refuse to move until they provide the notes, ideally at a busy time when the waiting room is full. It is disgusting the way they are treating you and if I was sat in a waiting room and heard what they are doing I would probably change vets!


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Check if your household insurance includes free legal cover. Then you can let a solicitor sort it out for you.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Buzzard said:


> Have you presented yourself at the surgery in person. I and refuse to move until they provide the notes, ideally at a busy time when the waiting room is full. It is disgusting the way they are treating you and if I was sat in a waiting room and heard what they are doing I would probably change vets!


Not yet. It is worth a try though but the vet will probably tell me the same thing. I'm not holding my breath on this!


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

Jugsmalone said:


> Not yet. It is worth a try though but the vet will probably tell me the same thing. I'm not holding my breath on this!


It really is a terrible situation. I hope you get it resolved. In my experience presenting yourself whilst other clients etc are there can be better than over the phone. Very easy to tell someone on the phone no but in person not so easy. If that doesn't work, seek legal advice or even the citizens advice bureau as to me this seems very wrong. You don't think they have lost the notes do you? Can't see any other reason why they wouldn't just fax them over to the new vets otherwise.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

I would stand at the vets and demand a copy of the history they cant refuse its illegal they have the notes on the computer stand there and day you want a copy printed out it is your right to do that and if they refuse tell them you are going to the trading standards and you are going to report them too I would go when its busy and make a huge fuss they may give you the notes just to shut you up


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Buzzard said:


> It really is a terrible situation. I hope you get it resolved. In my experience presenting yourself whilst other clients etc are there can be better than over the phone. Very easy to tell someone on the phone no but in person not so easy. If that doesn't work, seek legal advice or even the citizens advice bureau as to me this seems very wrong. You don't think they have lost the notes do you? Can't see any other reason why they wouldn't just fax them over to the new vets otherwise.


I do think they've lost the notes and won't admit to it as it puts them in a tricky situation I would think. I would not be able to claim any insurance back.

Saturday morning surgery may prove busy, ideal time.:thumbup1: I'll try and nip in tomorrow but Coles is at his current vets for a blood test which is 12 miles from home. I dont mind travelling though for a decent vet.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Jugsmalone said:


> So I've submitted a claim to my insurnace for Coles. Its the first claim I've ever made. I contacted my insurance company yesterday for an update and they advised they were waiting on medical history from previous vets.
> 
> I therefore contacted previous vets. The vet stated when I transferred vets the notes would have been requested and sent on. The vet also advised under RCVS guidelines he was not obliged to disclose the notes to me or my insurance company since my current vet should have a copy.
> 
> ...


This is from the RCVS

13.6 The Data Protection Act 1998 gives anyone the right to be informed about any personal data relating to themselves on payment of an administration charge.* At the request of a client, veterinary surgeons must provide copies of any relevant clinical and client records, including radiographic images and similar documents. This also includes relevant records which have come from other practices, if they relate to the same animal and the same client, but does not include records which relate to the same animal but a different client.*

More on clinical and client records.

13. Clinical and client records - RCVS

Don't now if its any help?


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> This is from the RCVS
> 
> 13.6 The Data Protection Act 1998 gives anyone the right to be informed about any personal data relating to themselves on payment of an administration charge.* At the request of a client, veterinary surgeons must provide copies of any relevant clinical and client records, including radiographic images and similar documents. This also includes relevant records which have come from other practices, if they relate to the same animal and the same client, but does not include records which relate to the same animal but a different client.*
> 
> ...


Perfect! Thank you. I knew about this section and I think my current vet did quote this to the vet in question. I can only think they have lost the notes which is why they are refusing to disclose them.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Jugsmalone said:


> Perfect! Thank you. I knew about this section and I think my current vet did quote this to the vet in question. I can only think they have lost the notes which is why they are refusing to disclose them.


Well if that's the case, then they should be honest and say to and inform the insurance of it too, rather then leave you in limbo with trying to claim.

This is an interesting point too.

5.3 Veterinary surgeons and veterinary nurses should not speak or write disparagingly about another veterinary surgeon or veterinary nurse.* Clients should not be obstructed from changing to another veterinary practice and should not be discouraged from seeking a second opinion.*

5. Communication between professional colleagues - RCVS

There is this too.

14.2 The clients permission to pass on confidential information may be express or implied. Express permission may be either verbal or in writing, usually in response to a request. Permission may also be implied from circumstances, for example in the making of a claim under a pet insurance policy, when the insurance company may receive all information relevant to the claim and seek clarification if required.

14. Client confidentiality - RCVS


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

How long are vets expected to keep notes when a client changes surgery?


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

The notes can be lost if on paper but surely these days all vets put the notes on a computer ?


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

shirleystarr said:


> The notes can be lost if on paper but surely these days all vets put the notes on a computer ?


If computerised notes aren't securely backed up, they can be lost if the hard drive fails. I was wondering if the vet had deleted the notes after passing them on to the new vet, and was covering up that they were no longer in existance.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

You might have been told this before as I haven't read all comments in detail. The RCVS will investigate complaints against vets if all else fails.

Complaints - RCVS

I can sort of understand the insurance company but they should give you the benefit of the doubt under the circumstances if your current vet has given all the medical history they can. I would perhaps consider referring them to the Financial Ombudsman if they are adamant they won't pay.

Its worth trying anything. Good luck.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Well i've just got back from the my current vets with Coles. They have advised the old vet has stated the only way they will release the notes is if my current vet trades their notes for theirs.

Why the hell is my old vet so interested in my dog! Coles' medical notes from my current vet has nothing to do with them.

I've advised my current vet the old vet is under no circumstances, to have access to Coles' notes. 

I'm just gobsmacked by all this, I've never heard anything like it!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I think your old vet is on a very sticky wicket. Do keep us informed how it progresses. I hope you go the route of the RCVS though a letter from your solicitor quoting the relevant law would not go amiss and might speed things up. 

Maybe start off with a letter from yourself, sent recorded delivery, stating that if your vet is not in possession of the notes within 5 days you will be reporting him to the RCVS and taking legal action plus letting the local press know what is going on.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Jugsmalone said:


> Well i've just got back from the my current vets with Coles. They have advised the old vet has stated the only way they will release the notes is if my current vet trades their notes for theirs.
> 
> Why the hell is my old vet so interested in my dog! Coles' medical notes from my current vet has nothing to do with them.
> 
> ...


Neither have I, if your changing vets then the new one needs the previous notes and medical history obviously, but if you are no longer going there then I don't see why the old vet needs the new ones.

With specialist refferals, obviously the specialist needs the vets case notes, and likewise the specialist will supply and do a report of his findings for the normal vet records because they have to know whats occurred and the treatment plan.

All I can say is that if the old vet wont release theirs unless the new vet updates them with their notes, then they must have them in which case that seems to blow the theory that they have possibly lost them?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

This is very peculiar and of interest to me.

Milo's previous vets (Rupert left them in 2011) refuse to give his full medical history to me. They say they will send it to my vet, but as yet my vet's don't have it 

In the past they gave me Rupert's history no problem several times for insurance purposes *after* I had moved him to another practise. So I have no idea why they refuse to give me Milo's.

We were asked if we left the practise for any particular reason, and we said 'a few things' to which the receptionist replied 'was there a vet in particular' to which we said 'well yes actually' and she replies 'oh XXXX has left, she doesn't work here anymore', I didn't even mention XXXX, the receptionist instinctively knew it was her. For some reason in my mind I can't help but think that's why they wont give me his history, because she's been complained about and has had to be moved on because of it. XXXX is the biggest reason I moved Rupert. She accused him of going to bite her when I was in the bloody room and he did no such thing! The waiting room is right next to the appt room and so everyone in there gave me *the look* for having a golden retriever who bites  He genuinely didn't, but I wouldn't have blamed him if he had because she had him by the scruff of the neck in a corner and I had to make her leave him alone. Even now he still hates the vets. He will refuse to get in the car a lot of the time because he thinks that's where we're going. For a good six months - a year after he was urinating all over the floor in the appt room out of sheer fear, and Rupert is not a nervous dog in the least. With all his problems he goes to the vets a lot and its not like it can be avoided.

I need to go to the current vet's on Tuesday so I will see if they have Milo's notes or not then. Otherwise I will kick up a fuss again.

Seems really bizarre what your old vets are asking


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Neither have I, if your changing vets then the new one needs the previous notes and medical history obviously, but if you are no longer going there then I don't see why the old vet needs the new ones.
> 
> With specialist refferals, obviously the specialist needs the vets case notes, and likewise the specialist will supply and do a report of his findings for the normal vet records because they have to know whats occurred and the treatment plan.
> 
> All I can say is that if the old vet wont release theirs unless the new vet updates them with their notes, then they must have them in which case that seems to blow the theory that they have possibly lost them?


I left the pervious vets 3 years ago. I never made a claim on Coles' insurance until now.

Your right it does blow the theroy that the notes are lost but I'm thinking maybe he knows I will refuse him Coles' records. I don't know, I just want the notes.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Jugsmalone said:


> I left the pervious vets 3 years ago. I never made a claim on Coles' insurance until now.
> 
> Your right it does blow the theroy that the notes are lost but I'm thinking maybe he knows I will refuse him Coles' records. I don't know, I just want the notes.


Hopefully the RCVS will sort it out if it comes down to it, because as far as I can see what they are doing is contravening the RCVS instructions and criteria in those links.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> This is very peculiar and of interest to me.
> 
> Milo's previous vets (Rupert left them in 2011) refuse to give his full medical history to me. They say they will send it to my vet, but as yet my vet's don't have it
> 
> ...


Have you complained to RCVS about getting the notes? That's exactly what I've done.

That vet sounds shocking. Your dog sounds so scared no thanks to that silly vet cornering him and grabbing him by the scuff of the neck.

I think some vets really shouldn't be vets. They forget, they have to be good with both animals and people.

I remember I took Buster to a vet and she was like right lets muzzle him and he was just sat there being calm. I don't think it was a breed thing more the size of him. I never took him back there funny enough. I want a vet who is comfortable and confident with my dogs.

I hope you manage to gets his notes. I don't think your previous vets have your dogs wealth at heart otherwise they would provide the notes.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Hopefully the RCVS will sort it out if it comes down to it, because as far as I can see what they are doing is contravening the RCVS instructions and criteria in those links.


I forgot to mention, the practice manager of my vets is going to give my previous vet a call on Monday. I wished him the best of luck and advised the vet was a charmer!


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

Just an update. I've just contacted the pet insurance and they have advised the previous vet has sent the notes over yesterday. I don't know if RCVS have contacted them, I've no idea at this stage. 

I'm just glad the insurance now have the notes.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Jugsmalone said:


> Just an update. I've just contacted the pet insurance and they have advised the previous vet has sent the notes over yesterday. I don't know if RCVS have contacted them, I've no idea at this stage.
> 
> I'm just glad the insurance now have the notes.


Good news at least they have released them now, and hopefully you can finally get your claim sorted out.


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