# Giving Dog Cartrophen injections yourself?



## mollypip (Aug 17, 2011)

Hi I was wondering if someone could give me some advice and/or experiences with injecting a dog yourself?

I have a rescue border collie and have spent the past 2 years knowing something was wrong with her back but kept being told by crappy vets that they didnt see anything wrong with her. I finally (now on my 4th vet - who is absolutely brilliant) had her diagnosed with lumbosacral disk disease.

Anyways the treatment she is receiving is metacam and 4 shots of cartrophen weekly for a month and then the monthly boosters. 

My question is my vet has suggested I do the injections myself (I also have a labrador on cartrophen) I have watched my vet give these injections but have not decided yet if I have the courage to do it myself. Does anyone inject their own dog and if so would you have any advice for me? Is there anything that could go drastically wrong with doing it yourself?

Many thanks.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm not sure about doing them yourself but Cartrophen should NEVER be used alongside Metacam


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

FORTE - Cartrophen data sheet

"NSAIDs and in particular aspirin should not be used in combination with Cartrophen Vet as they may affect thrombocyte adhesion and potentiate the anticoagulant activity of Cartrophen Vet. Corticosteroids have been shown to be antagonistic to a number of actions of Cartrophen Vet. Furthermore, use of anti-inflammatory drugs may result in a premature increase in the dog's activity which may interfere with the disease-modifying activity of Cartrophen Vet.
Do not use concurrently with steroids or non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, including aspirin and phenylbutazone, or within 24 hours of such administration."


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## mollypip (Aug 17, 2011)

Just to clarify. Metacam can be used with Cartrophen just not on the same day as the cartrophen injection - and to be safe my vet advises not to give metacam two days either side of the cartrophen injections. 

This is a fabulous treatment plan for my dog and she has gone from an intermittently miserable girl to a very pain free happy one:biggrin:

But my original question was does anyone have experience of giving these injections themselves?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

My vet always advises at least one week either side of Cartrophen injection and would prefer it was two if possible.
I was advised to not give Metacam while he was having the initial 4 week course. My boy has been on it for two years now 

As to injecting your own dog. I cannot see a problem with this, many people with diabetic dogs inject them every day.

Not sure of the legality with other drugs though


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## mollypip (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks Rona. Its perfectly legal to do this - I suppose Im just scared

My vet did say if the dog was diabetic Id have to inject twice a day so ......hmm

Anyways - yep some vets say a week before and after cartrophen with the metacam - and some just leave the 24 hrs. Im happy with the 48 hr gap anyway as I feel my vet is excellent - (and believe me Ive encountered some terrible vets over the years). She is also on a very low dose of metacam.

I have to travel miles outside my area to see this particular vet so she is trying to be helpful.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Yes, I did look it up  just to clarify for anyone else looking, it ok under vet instruction 
It's such a small injection that I can't see it being a problem, the only really risk is infection, and you don't sound as if you'd take risks with that 

Once you start it's easy. I injected thousands of pigs/piglets in my time on a farm and very few had any reaction even in that environment.

My boy doesn't even notice the Cartrophen injection and never has to be held


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## mollypip (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks again Thats reassuring. Ill think (and worry!) a little more about it and Ill have another demonstration from my vet next week anyway so..... Ill ponder on so to speak!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

mollypip said:


> Thanks again Thats reassuring. Ill think (and worry!) a little more about it and Ill have another demonstration from my vet next week anyway so..... Ill ponder on so to speak!


My friend practiced on an orange when she was having to inject her dog.
Has the vet given you a syringe to practice with?

One of the main things is not to panic and inject too fast, a nice slow pressure is far better. 

I'm sure you could do it easily if your dog doesn't react while being injected

Also, have you thought of Tramadol as pain relief?
I took mine to the vet this morning for his injection and he's got to the stage of needing a little more help now  
We discussed it and neither of us were happy giving NSAIDs with the Cartrophen, so we decided on Tramadol.
Might be worth a chat with yours


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## mollypip (Aug 17, 2011)

Thats a great idea with the orange - I got a bit hassled when she suggested the whole "do it yourself" thing so I just got a demonstration last week and needed more time to think. So Ill definitely do this with the orange.

I have discussed in depth mollys treatment and am very happy with the reassurance I got. Tramadol sounds good also but would not be an anti inflammatory. Ill have a chat again anyway - many thanks


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

mollypip said:


> Thats a great idea with the orange - I got a bit hassled when she suggested the whole "do it yourself" thing so I just got a demonstration last week and needed more time to think. So Ill definitely do this with the orange.
> 
> I have discussed in depth mollys treatment and am very happy with the reassurance I got. Tramadol sounds good also but would not be an anti inflammatory. Ill have a chat again anyway - many thanks


My vet had actually forgotten Tramadol because it's not licensed for animal use. They had given it to my boy after his operation, so I asked her about it as an option, and she thought it an excellent idea. Very very cheap too :thumbup1:
The Cartrophen should be working as the anti inflammatory after the initial course


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## mollypip (Aug 17, 2011)

Very helpful information!


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## Skyenews (Nov 24, 2014)

Hi Folks,
this is my first day and first post. I'll sort out my profile later.
I have a Collie Cross - 12 years old - rescued 2 years ago. She has terrible trouble with arthritis in her right stifle and is now on Metacam and my vet says she is a candidate for cartrophen. I'm really interested in giving my girl the injections myself but my vet says I can't do this; so first off - is she right or are others out there actually injecting their dogs? 
Buying the juice online is a major saving. £50 per 10 ml bottle compared to £75 for the vet to do the job. I can get metacam prescriptions for £5 and the meds are about a quarter of the vet costs. Any help would be very much appreciated.
Regards John


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I give little Teebo his monthly allergen injection now that his mummy is working away. It's actually easier than you might think. I put a treat on the other side of the draining board and he just stands staring at it. Take a scruff of fur on his neck and make a 'tent' put the needle two thirds in, draw back the syring and if there's resistance you know you're in the right place and not in a vein. If blood enters the syringe it's in the wrong place and you'd have to take it out and try again. It gets easier every time you do it and they usually don't even flinch. 
Probably best to get someone to hold your dog when you do it but Teebs is so focussed on the treat that he doesn't need holding, lol.


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

My dogs on cartrophen injections but I don't do them myself we get them done at our local vets for £13 no consult fee on top as just in & out. The vet who prescribed the treatment is at different practice which is about 30miles away so not practical to go there each time. He also said we could inject it ourselves if we had any prior experience, not sure the vets would be willing to train us to do it given not needed daily. Throp'supto 7 week intervals now & made a big difference to his mobility & character (now realize how Stoic he was ) 
Our dog was on carprieve initially alongside cartrophen but not given on same day as injection, the vet said that initially the cartrophen can make the dog more sore as it flushes the crap out so had 10 or 14 day course.


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## Skyenews (Nov 24, 2014)

Hi 2Hounds,
Skye's favourite dog to walk with is Buddy, a 6yo Greyhound. Black with snowflakes. They are great together but her exercise regime is so much reduced that they don't get out together so much. I've tried to upload a pic of the pair of them - hope it turns out. Soon her inflammation control and reduction period will allow her 20 minutes twice a day, and at least it will be worth saddling the pair of them up for a walk together. Skye does not run yet but we should get a green light on that in a couple of weeks too if all goes well.
Just to compare notes with you - I have two quotes of £16+vat for each of the four injections which comes to £76.80. Cartrophen is just £48.95 so with £6 prescription fee its still under £55.
Your vet sounds very amenable and even sensible. Good price too. But how would I prove previous experience and more importantly - how could I get experience for it to be accepted? Kind of chicken and egg question I guess.


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## jazzypad1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Although I don't have experience of giving Cartrophen injections - I do give regular B12 injections to my dog. He needs these every 12 days due to pancreatitis and digestive tract issues. I was shown how to give these by the veterinary nurse at our practice. It's not something I like doing - but needs must. 

I usually prepare the injection so that it's ready to use and then call him through to the kitchen for his dinner. As he's eagerly tucking in to it I move up behind him and quickly grab the scruff of the neck and give the injection - it's over in a flash. I was pretty nervous of doing it at first but soon got used to it.

Good luck!


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## Skyenews (Nov 24, 2014)

Hi Jazzypad1, thanks for your reply.
Ive been talking to a vet at one of the suppliers of Cartrophen. Having explained my problem I have had 3 replies to questions and follow up questions. Im including pretty much all of the replies so as not to be taken out of context. I did point out that folks can be seen on Youtube showing them giving injections to their pets. Ill leave you to figure out the questions but these replies will form the basis of my request for a prescription. I will also be contacting a different practice for training and advice if I can get it. Here is the meat of the replies I got.
Hope they are interesting:
1	Some people do give injections of Cartrophen to their animals, but most go to the vets for this. It usually amounts to 4 injections, which is perhaps not worth learning the techniques for.
Your vet is probably within her rights not to provide a prescription if she feels that you cannot safely give the injections. She might well be wrong, but it would be up to you to argue that with her. Not everyone can inject their own dog correctly without help and training. Who would provide that if you need it?
2	We sell lots of Cartrophen and the vast majority of it will be administered by owners. This is in fact a simple process in my opinion, but not one without any risk at all. If your vet does not want to write out a prescription, there might be different reasons for this. They could be financially motivated and that would be unprofessional as well as illegal in fact. However they could be perfectly reasonable and your vet knows you and your dog; I do not. If you feel convinced you can administer this medication yourself then we would be prepared to supply you. However you need your vet to make the prescription and that is not a decision for me. I am also not in a position to try and convince your vet to change their mind, other than by stating that we sell lots of this medication for owner administration and we have not heard of any reports of any resultant adverse events. (We might well not hear about them anyway, we do not ask to be told.)
I think you have no option but to either accept your vet's decision, or discuss it with them and see if you can change it.
3	The dose would be 17.5 / 10 x 0.3 = 0.525mls A 1ml syringe would be good. I would use a 21g x 5/8" needle ("green" often in colour coding). This is much larger gauge than is used for insulin, but Cartrophen is much more viscous than insulin and you will need it. 
You need to take aseptic precautions regarding not contaminating the contents of the bottle, as well as giving the injection. 
You should discard the remainder of the bottle after one month because it will degrade once the seal has been broached. This might scupper your financial calculations, but that is up to you.

Hope this helps others too. I'm keeping Skye on Metacam for the time being whilst we check out hydrotherapy. Hope she likes it - I'd love to get in with her to give reassurance. John


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## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

When Oscar had his fall he needed injections ..I did one under vet supervision and then he was happy enough for me to do them at home...

I had good advice about storage and hygine and was told to phone if I had any worries or doubts..

Oscar recovered well and I think Id be happy to do it with my other dogs if the need arose.


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## Skyenews (Nov 24, 2014)

Hi and thanks for your reply.
This is all very reassuring and augers well for Skye's future treatment. I'll post an update once I've had a 'chat' with the current vet but will be negotiating with a Vet Nurse from a different practice for training/assessment as a reserve argument to present. How to actually prove that I can do it may be problematic. I have visions of having to give myself a quick jab of saline or something neutral. I don't think I could bring myself to use Skye for practice though the Orange Analogy does sound good. Do you think it would be okay to take a printout of this thread with me to the vet?:sneaky2:
Regards, John


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

The best way of proving that you can indeed administer the injection correctly, is doing it in front of the vet/nurse. After being shown how to do it, your first administration should be supervised and then approved.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Tomorrow, Im taking the old man for his first cartrophen injection. He's 15 and this last couple of weeks, his arthritis has got so much worse. I'll be giving the rest of the course myself at home. Its going to be such a struggle to get a 50 kilo dog into the car, and Im dreading it. 

I will report on the benefits soon as.


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## Skyenews (Nov 24, 2014)

Good luck with that and I'll keep my fingers crossed for a result for you. Had you been using Metacam or anything else in the meantime like glucosamine? I have a friend at the dog training club who has tried all three and she says cartrophen is deffo the way to go for her pooch.
If you get a chance have a look at youtube before you go to the vet. It is all vey instructive and supportive.
Interesting variety of vet fees for writing prescriptions too!
Am I allowed to tell you where I found the cheapest supplier on this forum? If not how do I set up to contact you off-site (if you are interested) The one I found was offering 10ml for £48.95 and sells the appropriate needles and syringes too - dont forget some sterrets.
Kind wishes and regards, John and Skye:thumbup:


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Skyenews said:


> Good luck with that and I'll keep my fingers crossed for a result for you. Had you been using Metacam or anything else in the meantime like glucosamine? I have a friend at the dog training club who has tried all three and she says cartrophen is deffo the way to go for her pooch.
> If you get a chance have a look at youtube before you go to the vet. It is all vey instructive and supportive.
> Interesting variety of vet fees for writing prescriptions too!
> Am I allowed to tell you where I found the cheapest supplier on this forum? If not how do I set up to contact you off-site (if you are interested) The one I found was offering 10ml for £48.95 and sells the appropriate needles and syringes too - dont forget some sterrets.
> Kind wishes and regards, John and Skye:thumbup:


Yes, been using metacam and giving glucosamine and chondroitin. Of late, he has been managing to eat all his food and leaving the crushed tablets in the bottom of the bowl  The full course is £105 and the vet agreed to let me administer the final doses at home, and I do have experience of giving injections. You need to make, think its 25 posts, before you can send a pm, but I think you can send me a visitor message. thanks


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## Skyenews (Nov 24, 2014)

Tried leaving a Visitor message: please reply if you got the info - if not I will try something else! Kind regards and thanks for everything. John


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Skyenews said:


> Tried leaving a Visitor message: please reply if you got the info - if not I will try something else! Kind regards and thanks for everything. John


John, I think you have to make 20 or 25 posts to send a pm. Just make those posts as quickly as you can x


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## Skyenews (Nov 24, 2014)

Try a google search string for 'cartrophen £48.95'
has to be worth a try - worked for me at 0917 this morning.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Hi John, the problem with this is that the vets will insist on a consultation first before giving a prescription, and will want to watch you administer the first injection before they are happy for you to continue at home. So you will have to pay a consultation fee, the first injection and for a prescription. The full course at the vet was £105 so I thought this was the better option.

I went to VetsforPets as they were the nearest ones who would allow me to administer at home.


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## Skyenews (Nov 24, 2014)

Glad you got it.
Might be worth asking your vet if you need to continue with the glucosamine as the cartrophen does all the things that med does. The chiropracter we visit said that Skye would not need it if we went the cartrophen route and that represents a £9.80/month saving based on £38.10 for 125 days 'dust' for her food.:sneaky2:


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

I have noticed a significant difference already. He is not in as much pain getting up and seems happier in himself. I used to get glucosamine and chondroitin from Morrisons £4 for a month supply.


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## Skyenews (Nov 24, 2014)

Ang, there is glucosamine and then there is glucosamine
To start with there are two sources (that I know of) one is bovine extraction and I found this pretty ineffectual but the other one is marine extraction and this is from sharks. I quizzed the suppliers of the day (this was quite a few years ago and supplied thru a vet) and I was assured that the 'sharks' in question were not on the endangered list but were actually dogfish or was that catfish; who cares so long as my pooch benefits and endangered species are not the donors.
To make things more complicated not all recipes are the same just as strengths supplied vary. Not all have HA - Hyaloronic acid - an important building block for repair of cartilege. I searched for the best recipe with appropriate strength and came up with this:
Dog Supplements â Horse Supplements Direct
The dust comes in a tub with a tiny scoop which had buried itself deep in the tub so had to dig it out. Sometimes Skye will lick every dustmote from the dish and another day she will turn her nose up at the whole meal. Go figurerrr: little devil. Trouble is she's spoiled rotten and I share a salmon steak with her twice a week to improve her (and my) intake of omega oils etc. She loves the sweetness of the metacam though and will take that straight from the dropper and thank you for the dentastix afterwards


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## Skyenews (Nov 24, 2014)

Ang2 said:


> Hi John, the problem with this is that the vets will insist on a consultation first before giving a prescription, and will want to watch you administer the first injection before they are happy for you to continue at home. So you will have to pay a consultation fee, the first injection and for a prescription. The full course at the vet was £105 so I thought this was the better option.
> 
> I went to VetsforPets as they were the nearest ones who would allow me to administer at home.


I went to the local Vets4Pets and this was just a franchise but the vet was nice and quite talkative despite keeping a pet waiting on the table. Made me feel quite guilty when she eventually told me that. Anyway, what she told me was a little contradictory compared to what I had already heard. To kick off she was adamant that I would not be allowed to inject my own dog and that seems to fly in the face of all the evidence that folks do this plus what I was told by the BVA. Also that her treatment ladder would start with cartrophen then go on to Metacam. Now I hate to say this but what I have found out about metacam is enough to put me off using it at all and to give up NSAIDs for both me and Skye - well actually I'm not allowed them anyway because of my anti-coagulant treatment (rivaroxaban) but the CartrophenVet website has a few drop down menus that are quite revealing. If you are brave enough to wade through the unpronouncable names and conditions and complications go to: Cartrophen Vet - Healthy joints, happy pets

go to 'Information for vets' in the top banner drop down menu

go to 'other treatments' in the left column selections

in the body text click on 'Download pdf' last line before the references and shown in pale blue.

Last page (10) is pretty scary. In reading this info (came as a pdf) I tried to bear in mind that this seemed to be written by the manufacturers of CartrophenVet and not the manufacturers of Metacam. :001_unsure:

NSAIDs are proven to adversely affect:
 Bones
 Cardiovascular Function
 Eyes
 Ligaments
 Liver
 Skin
 Tendons
 Tendon to B
In addition to the infamous affects on
 Gastrointestinal tract 
 Kidneys

Go figure, but it raises the question 'Do we get full disclosure' about the drugs the vets pump into our much loved pets?


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Just to update. My old man has completed his course of cartrophen injections. Its made an incredible difference, in fact, he is running around like a puppy and everyone has remarked on the improvement. Someone said "he's like a new dog"  He has just turned 16, and Im hoping this has given him extra time. I would thoroughly recommend.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Ang2 said:


> Just to update. My old man has completed his course of cartrophen injections. Its made an incredible difference, in fact, he is running around like a puppy and everyone has remarked on the improvement. Someone said "he's like a new dog"  He has just turned 16, and Im hoping this has given him extra time. I would thoroughly recommend.


So glad it's working. It was marvelous for mine for quite a few years but lost it's effect late last year


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