# Alternative to Prokolin+ ?



## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Apart from Kaogel, are there any tried and tested/recommended alternatives to ProKolin paste?

We're battling with some long term runny poops at the moment, in our third week now. I'm really praying he hasn't started an intolerance to the Royal Canin Sensitivity control!

Originally the Prokolin was keeping it in check with little and often doses, only for it to come back with a vengeance if we stopped it, but now even the full twice daily dose of 5ml isn't keeping it totally under control. He's starting to revert back to going more often, and stools have a decidedly greasy look to them. Not mucous, just greasy and too soft.

He's on day 6 of a 10 day course of antibiotics (which of course may be contributing to the softness), and was wormed 4 days ago. Next step after the antibiotics is treating with Panacur for giardia, but is there an alternative stool firmer we can try?

Kaogel always used to work, until he started having a reaction to this, so for the last 3 years we've always sworn by ProKolin.

He starts on ProKolin Enterogenic sachets for a month when they arrive tomorrow, and is already on Protexin Bio-Premium, so I don't think we need any more pre or probiotics?

And don't worry, he's under vet supervision and I'll be ringing her first thing tomorrow, but wondered if anyone had any suggestions I can discuss with her?


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

My vets sell something called Canikur which is the same thing as Pro-Kolin.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Canikur tablets are very effective - if any of mine are loose, and two doses of Pro Kolin doesn't seem them right (usually does) then Canikur does the job very quickly and efficiently. I believe they can be used long term, but not entirely sure how comfortable I'd be with that - have you thought about something like Dorwest Tree Barks powder?


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Protexin pro fibre pellets ?

My rescue coordinator swears by the yum pro sachets by lintbells


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

I ahve used bith canikur tablets and paste in the past and found them excdllent


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Plain yogurt is meant to be very good for their tummies 

Benefits of Using Yogurt in Dog Food - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

I bought the Yeo Valley natural yoghurt for my dog the other week as he had a sick bug.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Canikur is better than Pro Kolin imho. Dont pay vet prices though. You can get a 60ml syringe online for about 17 pounds.

When mine have upset tums I give a spoon of probiotic goat yoghurt at each mealtime.

As a short term food you could try Chappie tinned but not something I would give for much longer than a week or two.

I always find the tins of RC sensitivity are the best for upset tummy times but they are very expensive. You could just give boiled chicken and rice that you prepare yourself until the upset tum gets back on track.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

A friend of mine always swears by Kaogel for her dogs, personally I prefer the Protexin prokolin but something you could try, you can by kaogel on line.

There is also Canikur for maintenance of digestive function in dogs especially diarrhoea, it comes in flavoured tablet form and given twice a day.

Diarsamyl Plus Paste is another that helps with digestive upsets and and also has pro biotics.

promax syringe for the control of diarrhoea that contains probiotics too and also can be used to prevent diarrhoea at times of stress etc and during use of antibiotics.

Cant say how good the last three are however as havent used them.

One thing that I have found helps is Bionic Biotic that I have used and found good. If you want to have a look at that.
Bionic Biotic: Supplement for digestion, skin, coat and condition » Pooch and Mutt: Dog Health Supplements | Pooch and Mutt

Bionic biotic you can now get in pets at home they stock it.
For all the others one place that does all of them is Vet Prescriptions, Medicines, Food and Accessories | Vet Medic Pharmacy who I use usually, but if you shop around you may even find them cheaper.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Jazzy said:


> Plain yogurt is meant to be very good for their tummies


Plain or natural yoghurt does nothing, it's probiotic yoghurt that is beneficial


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks everyone

I did wonder if anyone would suggest Canikur. Is the paste palatable?

He likes the Prokolin paste, but the poor love has so many pills and potions I can't face trying to get him to eat yet another thing he doesn't really like.

He doesn't like the Yumpro standard probiotics tablets, and actually refuses food with them crushed into, so I'm not really prepared to try their stool firming version.

And as to Tree Barks powder - they don't call it slippery elm for nothing. We tried the teeny tiniest little dose on Jack when he was going through a settled stage - I don't like to experiment when he's actually having a tummy turf anyway - and you have never seen the likes of it. I reckon you'd have been hard pushed to find a foot square of floor in our downstairs that hadn't been re-decorated by the next morning!

And yogurt doesn't work on him either. He can only take small amounts, and you have to practically give a whole large tub for the probiotics to be of a therapeutic level and actually survive in their guts to be beneficial, so not really worth it for Jack.

And thanks SDH - he had a reaction to Kaogel a few years ago, and Prokolin has always worked better for us. We've given Bionic Biotics a good try for a few weeks and it made no difference to his gas, and he also didn't like the taste.

We're not lacking pre or probiotics I don't think, just something to firm things up until we get to the bottom of the current issue.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

PennyGSD said:


> Thanks everyone
> 
> I did wonder if anyone would suggest Canikur. Is the paste palatable?
> 
> ...


Oh dear, the poor mite!

I've never used the paste but the Panikur tablets are very palatable - mine will all eat them like sweeties (admittedly, they're not the best dogs to test things on, they'll eat anything!), but they are flavoured.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

chichi said:


> As a short term food you could try Chappie tinned but not something I would give for much longer than a week or two.
> 
> I always find the tins of RC sensitivity are the best for upset tummy times but they are very expensive. You could just give boiled chicken and rice that you prepare yourself until the upset tum gets back on track.


Chicken and rice are no good for him. Nor is plain fish, cottage cheese, sweet potato, etc. etc. He really can only eat the Sensitivity Control in any volume so we don't have a 'bland' choice with upset tums.

Although he can tolerate Chappie and it doesn't give him the squits as such, we generally find that Chappie tinned comes out the other end almost exactly the same texture as it went in (yeuch), and normally twice the volume, but we do alternate this with RC Sensitivity tinned for pill hiding when his tum's too sensitive to risk any other yummies. We make one tin last 3 or 4 days though and feed the pills wrapped in the mush before his meal, as he's started to refuse to eat his meals if they've got medication in.

It's actually quite amusing watching him. He drools and paces before meal times, rushes over to his bowl when given the signal, then spends a few seconds carefully sniffing everything. Once he's confident there's nothing yucky hiding in there he hoovers at top speed!

Bless him, He's on Doxion once a day on an empty stomach, 1 hour before breakfast, 75mg Zantac twice a day, half an hour before meals, 2 x 50mg Tramadol twice a day, 15mg Vidalta 3 times a day, Previcox once a day, scoop of pre/probiotic once a day, Keeper's Mix baked into a biscuit with some tinned food to keep the gas to a minimum, and currently he's on 1 and a 1/2 huge pink Synulox tablets twice a day.

You can see why I need to know if anything's palatable...


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

SixStar said:


> Oh dear, the poor mite!
> 
> I've never used the paste but the Panikur tablets are very palatable - mine will all eat them like sweeties (admittedly, they're not the best dogs to test things on, they'll eat anything!), but they are flavoured.


Yeah - he was wormed with Panacur granules only recently. The vet assured me they were supposed to be flavourless. I didn't hold out much hope of him eating his lunch with 14.5g of the powder. It was masses! I mixed in a little warm water in the hope it would get slurped up easier, but honestly, it was more powdery liquid than biscuits.

Must be pretty palatable though, as Jack loved it and polished his bowl


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

PennyGSD said:


> Chicken and rice are no good for him. Nor is plain fish, cottage cheese, sweet potato, etc. etc. He really can only eat the Sensitivity Control in any volume so we don't have a 'bland' choice with upset tums.
> 
> Although he can tolerate Chappie and it doesn't give him the squits as such, we generally find that Chappie tinned comes out the other end almost exactly the same texture as it went in (yeuch), and normally twice the volume, but we do alternate this with RC Sensitivity tinned for pill hiding when his tum's too sensitive to risk any other yummies. We make one tin last 3 or 4 days though and feed the pills wrapped in the mush before his meal, as he's started to refuse to eat his meals if they've got medication in.
> 
> ...


Goodness...poor chap!

Have to say that the Canikur paste isnt all that nice because mostly my monsters will eat anything by choice...except that. Majority love the canikur tablets but 2 of my girls wont touch them.

I always have great success with the probiotic goat yoghurt but with my little ones a spoon of the stuff goes a long way.

Really hope your lad feels better soon.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I swear by pro texin pro fibre pellets. Made by the same people as the paste I believe but the paste never worked for mine. It's a pro biotic and full of fibre too, I always have a pot in the house. Less than £10 and lasts ages for a pot. Can give it daily too.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

PennyGSD said:


> Yeah - he was wormed with Panacur granules only recently. The vet assured me they were supposed to be flavourless. I didn't hold out much hope of him eating his lunch with 14.5g of the powder. It was masses! I mixed in a little warm water in the hope it would get slurped up easier, but honestly, it was more powdery liquid than biscuits.
> 
> Must be pretty palatable though, as Jack loved it and polished his bowl


When I gave mine the granules I was told by my vet to split the dosage between seven days? You can get panacur liquid too if that might be better?


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Have you had a stool test for campylobacter and giardia?

Either of these could cause the problems you're having, and no amount of prebiotics, probiotics, fibre or any bung-uppers would make any real difference.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Burrowzig said:


> Have you had a stool test for campylobacter and giardia?
> 
> Either of these could cause the problems you're having, and no amount of prebiotics, probiotics, fibre or any bung-uppers would make any real difference.


No - no stool samples yet, but trying antibiotics already. Vet reckoned it was worth trying due to his symptoms. As giardia is often not picked up in stool samples anyway the Panacur is the next thing to try - I was told to use a single dose in one go in case of worms (which we did), and then the next step is to try half the daily dose, but given 3 days in a row for giardia. The pre/probiotics are just to help support his tummy in general and the bung uppers are just to get through the current loose motions while we wait to see if the medications take effect. I know bunging him up is only treating symptoms for now, but with a dog who can't lift his tail due to severe arthritis/spondylosis and is faecally incontinent to start with, it's quite a priority right now!

And thanks Goldenshadow - we've used the Protexin fibre pellets in the past and they did absolutely nothing, so I don't think it's a lack of fibre. If only there was one solution that worked 100% for every dog, but it's a case of finding what suits in particular circumstances.


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

i am not sure if you have mentioned this in other posts but does your dog have epi? it causes greasy stools and I have heard that pancreatic supplement work well - maybe something to discuss with your vet - there is a test for it...just a thought - apologies if you have alsready mentioned this


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

demetris20 said:


> i am not sure if you have mentioned this in other posts but does your dog have epi? it causes greasy stools and I have heard that pancreatic supplement work well - maybe something to discuss with your vet - there is a test for it...just a thought - apologies if you have alsready mentioned this


Good point about the EPI must admit until you mentioned it and I re-read the opening post I missed the bit about greasy stools.

EPI, exocrine pancratic insufficiency can cause a large volume of sometimes foul smelling greasy stools, although the dog can be fine itself otherwise.

Its easy enough to diagnose, although the vet will usually do hemotology and bichemistry to check other underlying causes and general health as well. The specific blood test for EPI though is something called a TLI blood test, and they often do a B12 and Folate blood test too, this also tells how the bowels is working and gives also an idea of Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, which can be a cause on its own or can sometimes come with EPI too. 
There is a C Lipase blood test too to show up things like Pancreatitis, and fecal tests would show a lot too, like parasites including the protozoan ones like giardia and coccidia, persisten bacterial infections like campylobacter and yeast overgrowths too. For the fecal its better to so a three day fecal usually, three samples of 3 conescutive days as you have a lot less chance of missing things then you can sometimes do with just one sample. Otherwise Irritable bowel problems may be another suggestion.

If it does persist and depending what the vets have already done to explore there is a lot they can check out with just blood and fecal samples so nothing too intrusive.


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks demetris20 and SDH. I don't think it's EPI, unless it's only very recently heading that way.

Although he has greasy stools at the moment, it's only since the regular dosing with Prokolin, and we've seen this effect previously, but only on ProKolin. The colour hasn't changed to typical EPI symptoms, and he's actually been putting on weight recently since we've got his thyroid levels a little more under control. We found a lump on his thyroid Oct/Nov, 99% malignant cancer, which has caused him to be hyperthyroid. Of course I'm trying to ignore the possibility that this may actually be the first signs of cancer spreading elsewhere

I'll give it another couple of days - antibiotics finish on Thursday - and then discuss where we go next with the vet. I'm still hoping really that it's the antibiotics that may be contributing to digestive upset, but from past experience, things with Jack are never that simple.


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## demetris20 (Jun 27, 2012)

PennyGSD said:


> Thanks demetris20 and SDH. I don't think it's EPI, unless it's only very recently heading that way.
> 
> Although he has greasy stools at the moment, it's only since the regular dosing with Prokolin, and we've seen this effect previously, but only on ProKolin. The colour hasn't changed to typical EPI symptoms, and he's actually been putting on weight recently since we've got his thyroid levels a little more under control. We found a lump on his thyroid Oct/Nov, 99% malignant cancer, which has caused him to be hyperthyroid. Of course I'm trying to ignore the possibility that this may actually be the first signs of cancer spreading elsewhere
> 
> I'll give it another couple of days - antibiotics finish on Thursday - and then discuss where we go next with the vet. I'm still hoping really that it's the antibiotics that may be contributing to digestive upset, but from past experience, things with Jack are never that simple.


so sad to hear that  - i really hope its not that - i dont have many other ideas, perhaps also consider IBD (can be confirmed with endoscopy but its another worry...) - if he is reacting to sensitivity control have you tried the hydrolysed ones? theres 3 (hills z/d, hypoallergenic by rcw and a purina version i think called HD) - worth trying if things wont settle and your vet thinks its worth a shot?


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

demetris20 said:


> so sad to hear that  - i really hope its not that - i dont have many other ideas, perhaps also consider IBD (can be confirmed with endoscopy but its another worry...) - if he is reacting to sensitivity control have you tried the hydrolysed ones? theres 3 (hills z/d, hypoallergenic by rcw and a purina version i think called HD) - worth trying if things wont settle and your vet thinks its worth a shot?


Thanks - the Royal Canin Sensitivity Control he's been on for a few years is also hydrolysed so I'm not keen on changing anything at the moment.

It's terrible, isn't it? You want to wave a magic wand, or throw 101 things at them just to make them better, right now, this minute.

We'll continue with Prokolin for today and with any luck the Canikur will arrive tomorrow. I'll call the vet on Wednesday if we're still having issues. She's lovely, and as you can imagine, very, very familiar with Jack and his medical history.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

PennyGSD said:


> No - no stool samples yet, but trying antibiotics already. Vet reckoned it was worth trying due to his symptoms. As giardia is often not picked up in stool samples anyway the Panacur is the next thing to try - I was told to use a single dose in one go in case of worms (which we did), and then the next step is to try half the daily dose, but given 3 days in a row for giardia. The pre/probiotics are just to help support his tummy in general and the bung uppers are just to get through the current loose motions while we wait to see if the medications take effect. I know bunging him up is only treating symptoms for now, but with a dog who can't lift his tail due to severe arthritis/spondylosis and is faecally incontinent to start with, it's quite a priority right now!
> 
> And thanks Goldenshadow - we've used the Protexin fibre pellets in the past and they did absolutely nothing, so I don't think it's a lack of fibre. If only there was one solution that worked 100% for every dog, but it's a case of finding what suits in particular circumstances.


It needs a specific antibiotic to cure campylobacter, the normal one they give for a dodgy gut won't touch it - and sometimes it takes more than one course. As well as the diagnostic stool sample, you have to have a further one to make sure it's cleared. It's highly infectious, so keep away from other dogs in the meantime.

For the incontinence, have you tried nappies, either human ones or the special dog sort?


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## PennyGSD (Apr 16, 2012)

Burrowzig said:


> It needs a specific antibiotic to cure campylobacter, the normal one they give for a dodgy gut won't touch it - and sometimes it takes more than one course. As well as the diagnostic stool sample, you have to have a further one to make sure it's cleared. It's highly infectious, so keep away from other dogs in the meantime.
> 
> For the incontinence, have you tried nappies, either human ones or the special dog sort?


We'll get there. I'll continue with the current antibiotics as directed by the vet, then discuss further options and tests. He's not exhibiting any signs of illness at all. Good appetite, happy to exercise, no actual watery or bloody diarrhea, so I'm not convinced it's campywotsit (although I appreciate some dogs probably don't show any other clinical signs), but I'll trust my vet to guide me on this.

As to nappies, I've made him quite a few belly bands out of old towels and velcro lined with thick, flat human incontinence pads for his urinary incontinence so we manage this fine with regular bathing, but I think I'll give nappies for poo a miss!

We have wipe clean floors and washable beds, and we've been managing the faecal incontinence fine before this episode by getting him into a regular eating/pooing pattern and nice firm stools, but the idea of trying to separate soft, greasy, runny poo from all that fluffy fur contained in a nappy... I also have a good supply of disposable bed/chair human incontinence pads, so he's only ever allowed to lie on one of these at the moment...


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