# Rescue Girl



## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Hi lovelies,

It's been forever! (Well a year abouts since I last logged on to say hi!) I have a rescue foster cat who I have the pleasure of looking after. She had been straying about a month and was being fed by neighbours, until one realised she was looking rather full at the sides. A few days commenced and she is now in my spare room and bathroom, getting settled in and eating me out of house and home! We visited the vets on thursday and the vet confirmed she was pregnant, she could feel 2 kittens at least, and the closest I got to being given an estimate Time of Arrival was 'Not this weekend'. I have had another estimate of 3 weeks from our experienced cattery manager so I am just chilling.... for the moment.

I work full time, but have taken a week off as soon as I am able - I have also negotiated having some last minute caternity leave if I find she is struggling and I really can't come into work. They are pretty strict on that sort of thing, so I count that a blessing.

I have a birthing box all ready and she seems so much better settled than she was on Thursday so I am hoping she's not been stressed too much to lose many kittens. She's on high protein dry food, but refused to eat high protein wet cat food, so we are mixing wet kitten food with the high protein dry. She is drinking plenty of water and happily going to the litter box. I am hoping to dissuade her from having kittens in the bottom bathroom drawer but it is a favourite so far! 

She has stopped hissing through the door at my very gentle unobtrusive young man, Kole and really doesnt seem fussed by him. She saunters about with tail held high.

I was hoping to get some sort of camera set up, so I can keep an eye on her from work and was wondering if anyone can recommend a wireless one that can operate on batteries. (as so far she is preferring my bathroom to the main spare room).

Any advice, very much appreciated. I of course have read avidly about what to expect and what to look out for but undoubtedly I'm going to be a very anxious gran. Hah.

Here's a pic of the little lady too  Oh, and we have called her Miss Sherlock.

Zoe xxx


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

She is beautiful! I do love a Tuxie. We use Arlo but it really isn’t cheap, it has a dual purpose as kitten cam/ house cctv whether we have kittens etc.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

lillytheunicorn said:


> She is beautiful! I do love a Tuxie. We use Arlo but it really isn't cheap, it has a dual purpose as kitten cam/ house cctv whether we have kittens etc.


Hi Lily, thanks so much for the recommendation. It looks perfect! It will mean I can check in on the kittens as well, and can be a back up for my anxiety when my house alarm goes off when the moglet is all done


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

So I got the cat cam set up, it was a cheaper option than above (only 35 pounds) but very happy with the quality and it was pretty easy to set up. It does need a power cable, but takes USB so I am hoping to connect it to my USB power bank if I find the cable too annoying.

Attached is a screenshot from my phone of the little Miss settling for a snooze in a very sunny spare room. 










She is fattening up and her skin getting tighter, but lop-sided. Is this normal in cats? Definitely feels like she is carrying an extra kitten on one side.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

My little sweetie seems intent on using the bathroom drawer to birth in, she's gone in a few times and trashed the newspaper I'd put in there to line it, and got the bedding all messed up. She's not at all interested in the other nearby two boxes, even the one that I think is perfect. Clearly, its not the most inconvenient thing she can birth in, but it will be awkward for her getting in and out round the back of the cupboard. She managed to get up to a 6 foot shelf thing earlier in the week and I had visions of kittens falling like lemmings off a cliff. I've moved the cat tree now so she can't get up there.

Any ideas on how to persuade her to not kitten in the drawer? Apart from actually taking it out? Hmm, maybe I could take it out and put it on the floor. But then she'd probably want to use the top drawer then. 

She is such a little sweetheart, she seemed so uncomfortable in the early hours this morning she couldn't settle and in the end fell asleep with her head in my hand. This weather can't be helping much either.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I have found the only way to prevent them from having the kittens in an unsuitable location is to remove whatever it is or block access to it entirely. Can you just prevent her from going into the bathroom?

I have relented on a few occasions with particularly determined girls and then just moved kittens and mum to a place of my choice...that may not suit a nervous, first time 'mum' however.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Thanks @gskinner123 for the advice!

I have just spent half an hour trying to take the drawer out to no success! So what I thought i'd do is make another kittening spot more attractive! I dont really want to shut her out of the bathroom as it can be another door away from my two cats if she is feeling particularly stressed.

So I set up a lovely cosy kittening bed in the corner of my room that I've seen her skulking around in. And then I got all excited ten minutes later when she disappeared and i thought she'd got in it.










But no.... she preferred next to the kittening bed! Of course hahah.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Could have cried today. I spent about 20 minutes grooming her all over, she loves it so much. It must massage her back as she has tremendously stinky farts afterwards  But then, she was half asleep and I had my hand lightly settled on her side bump, just watching because everyone is saying I should be seeing movement.

Well, I saw felt one better, I felt a little bump press into my hand. I moved my fingertips lightly over the bump and I swear I felt the tiniest tiniest little kitten foot.. and then again. My heart has melted. I am gone. :Bawling:Bawling:Bawling


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

Awww, what a really lovely experience, little kitty feets :Cat do you have any idea when she is due?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I love feeling them wriggle and tumble under my hand. One of the nicest feelings ever!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Feeling and watching babies move is the best, especially in the final day or so when they’re super active.

She may not choose a spot until it’s time, and you may get a chance to guide her. I’d keep her out the bathroom.
The box could be too open, can you close the top and cut a hole in the side?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Gosh, SC, mine turn into sloths the closer they get to labour. At 2-3 days to go they're so tightly packed that I can barely feel any morement at all. It worries me as I then overthink things and convince myself that the whole litter is dead. Never the case though. Just mums packing them in. Wish mine stayed active right through.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

I think she's getting ready tonight so a few days to go. She has eaten and eaten all day but not really fancied much tea though she seemed keen initially.

She's been in and out of a little cat hideout thing 3 times in the last hour, so I've put some paper down in there and she's padding it loads and purring for no apparent reason. I don't mind if she goes in there, it can be binned when she's done and I will pop her in one of the bigger more comfy boxes with the lid up (thanks for the idea @spotty cats 

Her belly seems to be lower than it was, less high up on the sides.

Could be nothing of course. I'm going to bed now but will keep an eye out on the camera for a few hours and if things progress I will just stay up.

Trying not to get too excited haha.

xx


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Ooooohh good luck!


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Nothing this morning, and she is as ravenous as ever! Think I'm going to be like this until she goes lol


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Trouble is for every sign there’s girls who do the opposite 

Belly dropping however is always a good sign it won’t be long.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

We have milk tonight! This means its really soon isnt it? She's not eaten as much as she has been eating and she isnt really bothering nesting, just wants to chill with me. 

She looked a little waddly when I cammed in on her this afternoon, which I thought was cute and her back legs look as if she's trying to cross them, sort of. She is pretty unphased so far which is great.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Unfortunately it's not always a reliable sign. Some of my girls over the years are absolutely full of milk a week prior to giving birth and others no milk is detectable - they are totally 'flat' underneath - until a day or two after giving birth.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

gskinner123 said:


> Unfortunately it's not always a reliable sign. Some of my girls over the years are absolutely full of milk a week prior to giving birth and others no milk is detectable - they are totally 'flat' underneath - until a day or two after giving birth.


Argh! The expectation is terrible hahah


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

:Hilarious They keep you on your toes while waiting.

Most of mine get milk a few days before, one would get hers 7-10 days prior. At least we usually have mating dates though


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Nothing today. She's had a great appetite. Her little mammaries are getting bigger and swollen and she just seems really chilled out though a little uncomfortable. No signs of nesting, not even the bathroom drawer. I think she's too tightly packed to have much kitten movement so not felt anything either. 

I had a panic buy this morning and raided amazon for powdered cat milk and a feeding set in case any of the kittens have trouble. Though I can pick stuff up from the cat charity who will have everything I need I guess, just wanted it on hand.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

One thing you know for sure, they can’t stay in there forever 

Mine always slow down for a day or so, then move madly about 24 hours before.
Some breeders call it boiling as it looks like a pot of bubbling water lol
They also sleep less, moving position a lot.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Every day I think she can't get much bigger, and so far, every day, she is proving me wrong. Poor sweetie.


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## tyg'smum (Aug 14, 2018)

ZoeM said:


> Every day I think she can't get much bigger, and so far, every day, she is proving me wrong. Poor sweetie.
> 
> View attachment 409396


Full of kittens...


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Tonight may be the night! She has been anxious and jumpy over the last few days, but tonight seemed more so. Her pupils have been huge as if she's in discomfort. She hasn't actually stopped eating at all though. Her milk is leaking tonight.

She went into the final birthing box I had put in for her at the weekend, as all the others just seemed to be lacking somehow. She was settled there but then came out and kept switching from side to side in the blanket I usually snuggle up to her in. 

Her breathing seems off, she is deep purring then stops and seems to hold her breath for a minute, before breathing very shallowly while she seems to stiffen up as if in pain. And then she seems fine again. She did this for about an hour with a few little squeaks of noise, but that seems to have gone off again now as she's managing to nap. The kittens seemed very squirmy and visible to the naked eye at some distance. 

I am going to keep an eye on her, with the mic on the webcam at full volume so I should hear any noises she makes. 

Not so much excited anymore but anxious for her. Hoping so hard it all goes okay.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Sounds close  can you sit or sleep in with her?
It’s morning here, I’m at work but can check in on you occasionally if you need anything.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Thanks so much @spotty cats - I am watching her on my webcam from the room next door, she's napping at the moment. If she gets restless or cries or anything looks untoward I will go straight to her. xx


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

i slept on the floor with her, and she got more sleep than me. No kittens yet!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

ZoeM said:


> i slept on the floor with her, and she got more sleep than me. No kittens yet!


The suspense is killing me!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It sounds as if she is nearly there. Kittens by the end of the day, I think :Cat
Good luck


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Hoping for an update today


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Guys. Guys. Guys. I think she's having a laugh with me. I think she's just pushing her belly out when she sees me coming. I have mug written on my head.

I've been watching her off and on today from work.

She's been asleep, like... Alllllll day.

I've just now got home from work, settled in with my chippy dinner and she's suddenly frantically licking her bits and hurrying in and out of her birthing beds. Well, no. Not this time.

I am not shouting MUCUS PLUG tonight at the top of my voice and running into her room, only to find it's a bit of blanket stuck awkwardly between her legs. NO.

And she's on her own when I'm in bed tonight. At least until I see a kitten paw waving at me from her nether regions!

Im so sleep deprived hahah.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Her waters have broken!! Trying to get hold of my boss so I can go home now. My technician has been off sick for three days so I've been manic busy.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Eeeeep! Hope you get home quick!


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Been home about half an hour now, she has been having on/off contractions for the last 25 minutes and seems to be actively bearing down. Now sure if I should be timing the contractions. She's doing really well.

There are a few spots of blood dotted around but I assume this is normal? 

She has gone between two of her birthing beds and thankfully isnt going in the drawer or on the high up cat carrier! Mostly though she's just laid next to me.

I have no idea how long this could take before I should be worrying and the first kitten comes?

So proud of her!


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

One born. She screamed. He didnt look right from the start. She cleaned him and I took over when she lost interest. I did the swingy thing to clear airway and tried cpr.. but he's not made it.

Second is born and is crying, shes just got him near her head. Do I need to move him?


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

third born, second seems to be cold and not moving so much


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

I can’t see any of our experienced breeders online at the moment, Sorry I can’t help with any advice but hopefully someone will show up soon to help


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Sorry you lost the first one 
If mum isn't showing much interest keep the babies in a warm place until she has finished giving birth. If you have a hot water bottle wrap it in fleece or a towel in a pillow case and pop them on there. Keep checking that they aren't too warm though. Has she cleaned them up and eaten placentas? Some cats won't tend to the kittens until they are all born. Once you are sure she has had them all put them back with her and encourage them to find a nipple.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Thanks Lyn for the advice. I rang someone and got advice. I had to take them to the vets, as one really wasnt moving much and mum just wasnt bothered.

She had three in total, vets checked that there weren't more. 

We have one black and white, very frail, struggling to latch on, and weak. Holding him on, and he has drank now and then but then falls asleep. 
One big tabby and white, he was bleeding from the unbilica, I think mum bit too deep as she was distressed after the first. Vet has glued, just have to hope no infection.

Will post a piccy when I get a mo!

xxx


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

Wow, it all sounds very stressful. I’m sorry you lost the first one  everything crossed the last 3 survive.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

ZoeM said:


> Thanks Lyn for the advice. I rang someone and got advice. I had to take them to the vets, as one really wasnt moving much and mum just wasnt bothered.
> 
> She had three in total, vets checked that there weren't more.
> 
> ...


Hope Mum is starting to take interest now. You may have to top up milk for the black and white one - weigh him and then check weight again in 12 hours, if he isn't gaining you may have to top up. Do you have kitten milk, bottles etc?
Good luck with them


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Don’t suppose you have Nutridrops? Sugar water or honey on the gums can also give an energy boost.

It’s not unheard of for even healthy kittens to drop or maintain weight over the first 24 hours with gains happening after that.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

I weighed them both, black and white dude is 55g, and tabby and white is 75g. Despite being told after an xray by the vets that there were no more, she became very distressed and gave birth to another. His heart wasnt beating. I tried CPR on him for half an hour, I kept him warm, but I listened for a heartbeat with my steth and nothing.

The little dude is trying very hard but has very little nipple direction. He has been getting little bits of milk with help by me holding him on. He has just had a very vocal few minutes and I helped him latch on again, he suckled and drank for the longest time yet. Mum isnt interested in him, and I keep putting him in front of her but she just tries to wash the other stronger one.

I have managed to get tomorrow off and a friend is going to watch them friday but I cant hand rear - I work full time, so if nobody at the rescue will, he is likely to sadly fade.

The stronger one may not even make it, if her tummy gets infected where the vet stitched I'm dont think she/he will do it.

I dont want to name them until I feel more secure with them.

Mum is being a trooper, she has a clean bed and hot water bottles on both sides of her. I keep being terrified because the kittens dont feel as warm as they should. Heating is on full blast for the night.

Do you think I should try to top up the little guy before 12 hours? I tried him on a bottle and he wasn't interested, but he is gaining strength and hopefully he keeps fighting to latch on. 

Also, do you think she would likely reject little dude more if I kept him on my chest to keep him warm between feeds?

I am so glad Miss Sherlock and I bonded so much in these three weeks, she has been SO incredibly trusting.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

And the only pic ive had a chance to get!


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

spotty cats said:


> Don't suppose you have Nutridrops? Sugar water or honey on the gums can also give an energy boost.
> 
> It's not unheard of for even healthy kittens to drop or maintain weight over the first 24 hours with gains happening after that.


sorry spotty cats, I meant o reply, i dont have nutridrops, but if I hold him on hes suckling, he is getting stronger. Just gotta get him through the next couple of days I hope xx


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

What a sad time for you  she’s lucky to be inside with you.
I’d keep him with mum to help bonding if possible, she knows the other isn’t right. I’d give him a chance to get all the colostrum he can, unless you have powdered?


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

spotty cats said:


> What a sad time for you  she's lucky to be inside with you.
> I'd keep him with mum to help bonding if possible, she knows the other isn't right. I'd give him a chance to get all the colostrum he can, unless you have powdered?


I got powdered just in case but he's not keen on it. He just opens his mouth but doesnt suck. Mum just gave him a big clean and I think she was trying to guide him to a nipple but I have to be realistic and think there's a 50/50 chance of him surviving the night.

The bigger dude is just permanently latched on. I dont think he'd fall off if she went for a walk. 

Will keep trying little weed on the nipple anyway every hour - thanks for your reply xx


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Fingers crossed for the little one, hopefully he’ll get stronger


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Little weed has just passed away


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

So sorry


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## raysmyheart (Nov 16, 2018)

I am so sorry @ZoeM


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

The last one isnt looking so great.. she seems much more lethargic than an hour ago. How can I tell if she's actually getting milk?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

So sorry that you lost the little one. I'm sure you did all you could but he was very small and it sounds as if mum knew there was something wrong 
The best way to tell if the last kitten is getting milk is by weighing but if mum is producing milk and kitten is suckling she should be getting some. Does her tummy look rounded after feeding?


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

lymorelynn said:


> So sorry that you lost the little one. I'm sure you did all you could but he was very small and it sounds as if mum knew there was something wrong
> The best way to tell if the last kitten is getting milk is by weighing but if mum is producing milk and kitten is suckling she should be getting some. Does her tummy look rounded after feeding?


His tummy does look rounded, he's been lethargic but I rang the vets and they said may just be very deeply asleep, and to wake in 90 minutes and try to rouse and feed again. Mum is eating loads, been to the litter tray but is now just not interested at all


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

LIttle un in still with us, he had a really good feed at 8.45, Mum is uninterested. Does anyone know if it would be safe to use pet remedy near her, say in her bed? x

Just found out pet remedy is good. 

Little un is having another feed unprompted and unassisted by myself or mum. Hold my breath xx


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Often mums become bored with singletons. She may also be getting too hot in the box if there's 2 hot water bottles in there. I'd perhaps take those out, then just pop 1 back in if she leaves the kitten on his own to keep him warm. I had a girl who was a nightmare with babies. She had a litter of 6 I think it was, and just decided that she wanted to be near but not with them. She'd take herself to the door of the kitten pen and just lie outside it on the carpet. If they cried, she'd go back in and fee, but she was producing so much milk that they rarely did, so I had to keep encouraging her in there and then wake the babies for her. They were the laziest litter I ever bred when it came to feeding!

As long as she goes back to feed the baby regularly, and he's warm, everything should be Ok. Could you offer to foster some bottle babies from the rescue? It would be better for him to grow up with other kittens.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Hi @carly87

Thanks so much for your reply and valuable experience. She just has a heat pad now in there, I will take the other bits out, she seems to have fed him and exactly that - just gone out. I'm not sure about taking on other kittens, the rescue dont appear to like using surrogates and just blanked me when I suggested he go to a good mum. Ah she's got back in again now. I keep thinking she's getting there, and then she just buggers off!


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Mums would leave their kittens for long periods in the wild. I'm still not comfortable with it at all when mums leave their babies unattended, but ultimately, if the baby is warm and fed, there's no reason for her to stay with him while he's asleep. It's a hard thing to swallow though. Has she got somewhere in the box that she can move to be away from the heatpad? With the girl I mentioned above, I found that she settled much better on cool cotton wuilts (I ended up making some rather than just folding a sheet as I was still worried about kittens). I used 100% cotton material on one side, bamboo inner as it's good at wicking and doesn't overheat, then a short napped fluffy thing on the back of it. I could then have cool cotton for mum, and over the heatpad, fluffy stuff for babies. She settled much better after I'd done this. I also stripped back the kitten pen so that the half outside the nest was only vinyl and much cooler. She was happier to be closed in when I left for work (I can't risk cats moving kittens as I'd never find them, and OH had to work so I had no choice and she was well settled), but still insisted on having freedom to come and go as she pleased when I could give it to her, which was every moment I was at home, or had sighted help to find any kittens that were moved. Thankfully none of my girls have ever done this, but I live in fear of it.

So ultimately, make it cool, but with 1 warm spot that kitten can go to to warm up. Encourage mum into the box every 2 hours or so. Put her in, encourage her to lie down, wake baby and plug him in. Then lots of talking to mum and baby, lots of good girl and reassurance that what she's doing now is the right thing and it's making you happy. My girl would quite readily go back in even if she didn't think it was necessary, because I did this, and she was happy to bend a bit and compromise. Thankfully this close relationship works out with a harmonious household. Just not sure how close you are with her yet given that you haven't had her all that long.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Doing what you said there @carly87 - thank you so much. I have been giving her tiny bits of treats when she does the right thing and stroking her and encouraging her.

I called the vet, cus the glue fell off little dude's tummy hole, but it looks clean and clear and now can see her umbilical cord so that is promising. She said mum is panting because her uterus is contracting back into shape. She doesn't feel hot to the touch and is happy getting out of the bed and leaping back in as soon as little dude squeaks.

Little dude has the scrawniest little chicken legs I've ever seen, but he can get from one end of the bed to the next well when he's hungry. He has had his first 3 tiny poos, that I had to google and found out they are called meconium. He has a great set of lungs and has been finding the teat eventually when he is hungry enough.

I am trying to stay hesitantly hopeful.

xxx


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Sounds like a nice, strong kitten to me. Just be wary of how much he's crying. Too much and it's telling you he's not eating enough. Scrawny legs are quite normal at this age, as is the swimming motion they use to move.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

it is a rollercoaster this.

I found your post carly about getting kittens to latch on and got the little guy to do so. He isn't doing great. He has peed loads, Mum is trying so hard, but she keeps knocking him off the nipple by cleaning him. I think between the two of them, they aren't a great pair. Mum is inexperienced but trying, and so is he, but they are working against each other.

I have a friend kitten sitting tomorrow, I have told her not to hold out too much hope. I tried to get him to bottle feed, as I think he has lost weight but he cries so loudly, Mum gets very upset, and he won't latch onto the teat, I think its just a little bit too big for him. He has had a little off Mum and I know he can cry very loud so maybe he is full up and sleepy. A friend came round and she said she thinks he's doing okay, and she has more experience as she works in rescue. She says its possible she picked something up on the streets that has given them an issue. 

In more positive news, Miss Sherlock is doing very well, she is regaining her shape very quickly, eating well, and loving the cat milk I bought for the kittens. She is way more relaxed and trying incredibly hard. What is also good is that she won't go through this experience ever ever again.


I also read your post further after I wrote this, about the glucose and though Ive had no sleep now for so long, I had to give it a go. I managed to syringe feed him with a 1ml syringe and a nipple. I then put him to mum's breast and he shot across in full chicken crawl mode. He still couldnt find a nipple, but I found his favourite one, and he latched on pretty quick and fed for a good twenty minutes.

I then realised Mum keeps getting off because she is so warm, so I cut through the box and opened up the top half. She was so grateful to ease out the side. Its not ideal, but best I can do at 1am. Now she can stay with baby for longer I hope.

Work tomorrow, hope he makes it through the night. Will check half way through.

Thank you to all who have been kind and offered support and advice. xxx


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I’ve found the Miracle Nipple or a slip tip syringe (no needle) to be the easiest to feed with.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It's not easy but you are doing really well. Keeping everything crossed for baby x


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Can you hold him to the nipple when he has latched? Inexperienced girls will sometimes try to clean the babies when they are nursing. What I do in this instance is to cup the kitten in my hand while it feeds, joggle them a little to encourage the suck if they are the sleepy sort, ans my hand acts as a barrier to mum's head. If she puts her head up to lick the baby, I gently encourage her with touch to put it back down again, a really gentle, easy pressure so she can resist if she really wants to. As soon as her head is back lying down, I tell her she's good, give lots of reassurance, as I do all the way through, reassuring she's doing the right thing as she lowers her head. I cuddle and stroke her head while she settles, then rinse and repeat until baby is done feeding. As soon as they are finished, I bring them straight to mum's head and tuck them right under her chin so she has easy access for a lick of a sleepy, quiet baby if she wants it. This has helped mine learn to let the babies be when they're feeding, and save the love and cleaning for before or afterwards.

Slip tip syringes are really good for feeding, with either the miracle nipple (not easy to get in the UK quickly) or the long, thin nipples that they can really suck on. Most of mine refuse bottles and standard nipples very firmly. However, I would strongly advise you not to start supplementing/topping up on a very regular basis unless you are prepared to hand rear. I know you said you're not, and ultimately if it comes to it and someone doesn't, the kitten will die, but make sure someone's prepared to do this before you encourage him onto a nipple and easy milk, and away from mum where milk requires a bit of work to get. I don't mean to sound harsh and I hope I haven't, but you can't interfere with feeding a little bit, unless you're prepared to take it all the way, or are only supplementing once/twice a day on a schedule which works around your work.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Thank you so much for your advice carly. It has been invaluable. I checked in on them at 4 this morning. Mum had moved him to the bathroom drawer. Was worrying about being cold but he was warm so less panicky about that. Heating was on throughout the night.

Checked on again at 7 and the little guy was sort of crawling around but not in any distress and still warm. Mum was chilling
She is a bit off her food but did eat a little and drank 50ml kitten milk. 

Mum went and tended to him and he latched on on his own with no encouragement from me. He nursed contentedly. 

Another up on the roller-coaster.

I have had to go into work today which I feel quite relieved about as my anxiety is really starting to impact my mental health.

A wonderful friend is going in to just keep mum company in the room next to where kitten is and has instructions to just check warmth every few hours and to be hands off as much as possible.

She has met mum several times and was with me helping the failing kitten latch the first night so mum should be OK. She is pretty experienced with cats so she will know if shes not wanted.

41 hours alive and counting xxxx


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Little add on carly. You arenr being harsh and I appreciate your honesty. I really have not tried to bottle feed at all. I don't feel confident doing it so I have been concentrating on latching apart from a very tentative try last night. Nobody in the rescue has offered to hand rear and surrogacy is not done due to the possibility of illness being spread. Little dude has to get there with mums help and sadly I am resigned to this.

Xxx


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I wonder if she's unsettled because she's just too warm? Sounds like she's doing much better now she's moved him. Fingers crossed that today goes as well as this morning!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

In this weather you definitely don't need the heating on. A heat pad that isn't too close to mum but that kitten can get to is sufficient (in a litter they'd just pile on for warmth but not possible with a singleton).

I think miracle nipples are now on Amazon Prime. 

Have you digital kitchen scales that you can weigh baby on daily to make sure he's gaining well?


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

I am going to try to get the miracle nipple on amazon prime.

I weighed him, the other scales were awful, and very very inaccurate. I knew he had lost a little weight from the rough crappy scales I had. My friend brought good kitchen digital scales round. I don't even want to put his weight as its very depressing, at 61g.

Mum is being very protective this afternoon and even with my treat of chicken, she is being wary of me handling kitten, and seemed to be close to moving around when I went to move him a little. I will try to regain her trust over the next few days by being hands off and just sneak kitten for quick weigh sessions.

In positive news, kitten is alive and is nearly 2 days old. He or she, still not sexed - just not important to me at the moment. He has been independently latching on, feeding, pooing, weeing and wriggling up to a little teddybear since 1am this morning. Mum is more settled generally, she is spending most of her time with him, she's eaten three pouches and drank and had some chicken.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Yes Miracle Nipple is now on Amazon, Prime or not: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nursing-Su...-Watering/s?rh=n:471397031,p_4:MIRACLE+NIPPLE


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I would definitely be inclined to remove all heat sources from the box; background heat is fine if you feel the room is too cool. I would also withdraw and leave her be, apart from feeding and (for several days just to double check) weighing the kitten twice a day at the same time of day.

Not that I am suggesting it is the case but I'm a firm believer that too much 'fiddling' and intervention is as bad as not enough.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Very much depends on the cat and the personality. If I didn't "fiddle", I doubt I'd have had the results I've had. For 1, every single kitten would have died as none of mine have had the sense to cut the chord or break the sack.

You need to do what's right for the cat though. Has he gained any weight since birth? Kittens can often lose a little in the first 24 hours until they get going, then should gain at least a little every day. I'd expect weight gains on a singleton to be good. He's small, but not impossibly so. I had one born at 61G who survived.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Agree it depends on the cat, some breeds are also notably different. And breeders techniques vary greatly  

This cat in question seems to be wanting some peace to bond with her bub, she would also not be as bonded to the owner as our breeding girls are.

Hopefully he’s gained a good amount of weight today.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Agreed..it depends upon the cat. My experience of girls having kittens is that they instinctively know what to do. Those that are slow and unsure need the time and opportunity - closely watched - to find out for themselves. 

I wouldn't advise taking a back seat without knowing at least some of the background but reading this thread she sounds very much like a cat who wants (and needs) to be left in peace with her baby.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Hey guys,

Mum is doing very well, she is more relaxed, her milk is going down in the unused nipples and no swelling and what not. She is eating and drinking well.

I have gone for a hands off approach now for last 36 hours. Kitten is hanging in there, he is latching on his own and mum is going to him and staying for the most unless I go in and she has a little break to eat and what not. Ive taken all heat sources from the drawer, and have it half open for some air flow, kitten is warm and mum is cool, so think i am finally getting it right. I have heating on at 20 degrees just to keep house ticking over, and doors shut so mum less anxious.

This is so new to me, and I struggle with anxiety so being hands on isnt something I can maintain, physically and mentally. i am starting to get a little poorly from lack of sleep and waking up every hour with palpitations and panic attack.

Carly has been a god send to me through this forum and I am so grateful, grateful to all you guys for your advice and support to be honest.

I am going to try to get miracle nipple delivered today. if you guys think I can supplement, I can supplement in the morning and in the evening, if its not too late to do so. Kitten hasnt gained weight but he is latching on. Mum gets very distressed if I move him around as he cries, so needing some advice there. I am going to go by mum really. Mum is my priority. She won't be going through this again. And I am not taking in a pregnant cat again, I can't go through this. I dont know how you breeders do it. xxx

Miracle nipple is earliest tuesday, bought that but going to contact a few rescues to see if anyone has one I can buy x


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

I spoke to the vet for the 4th time in 3 days, and got some advice, they said that maybe just will take a little longer to gain due to difficult start, so ya never know. Really loathe to interfere and disrupt the progress mum is making in being a mum x


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I would hang fire now and wait until the miracle nipple arrives. A hands off approach sounds like the best option, and mum has calmed down with this. 

For now, there's not much you can do. I totally get you with the anxiety, but it's really important you bring your anxiety down as she will be picking up on it


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Thanks @Rufus15 Trying very hard, gonna be all zen later as a friend is taking me to a pottery class haha


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Hi guys,

I'm so sorry to let you all know that little dude passed away this afternoon. He had seemed to have had such good days over Friday and Saturday with latching on and feeding all the time and Mum being there for him but when I weighed last night, he had slipped down to 56g and I knew he wasn't long for this world. I found Mum numerous times lying away from him and encouraged her back, which she did for me, but then didn't lick or otherwise try to care for him. This morning I opened the door and Mum was sat outside it waiting for me and was all chirrupy. I think she will be okay. I need to take the little dude out of the drawer shortly and bury him, and I think she will soon forget.

Some things are just not meant to be and sadly I think being a stray for so long in the early stages of pregnancy or... well I dont know, I have been searching over and over again to try to figure out what could have gone wrong, but something was clearly not right from the start. 

I'm not sure how to treat mum, she seems wanting attention and play but I'm not sure if she will try to look for him if I move things about the room, so I will just give her some play time and gentle cuddles. I'm sure she will want to sleep after the tough time she's had. 

Thanks so much to each and every one of you for your incredible advice, and support. 

Much love xxx


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Very sorry Zoe. You tried very hard. Xx


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I'm so sorry Zoe. You did a fantastic job and should be proud of yourself, sadly these things happen


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm so very sorry Zoe. I'd perhaps just take him out of the drawer without moving anything else around just yet, then just reassure her if she goes looking for him. If she'd already started lying away from him though, and was waiting for you this morning, she seems perhaps more Ok with the fact that he's gone than mine have been. I've only ever had losses with 1 litter touch wood, and mum didn't cope massively well with it, bue I suspect she's very much the exception rather than the rule. I know with others when the kittens have left and mums have gone searching, I've just given lots of reassurance and love and waited for things to settle.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Thank you. I went to take him out and she was like Oh, I remember.. and is laid with him so I'll give her some time and try again shortly. 

I dont know how you guys do it, I really don't. xxx


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm so very sorry. You did your very best for him - and for his mum and siblings too. Some mums will accept the loss more quickly than others and leaving the kitten for a while may help.
Not for the fainthearted, breeding, but I know the day it doesn't hurt to lose a kitten will be the day that I stop.


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## tyg'smum (Aug 14, 2018)

So very sorry to read about this. But you did your best for the little one, and in the end that's all we can try to do.


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

I’m so sorry he didn’t make it  xx


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## Mmb1004 (Jun 10, 2019)

I'm so sorry, I've been watching this thread in case I am ever in a position where I can foster or find a pregnant queen....you've done so well with a tough situation. I'm not sure I am made of stern enough stuff. Hope you and mum are okay. Like you say, there must have been something wrong beyond your control.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

So sorry to hear this, very sad but you did your best and it obviously wasn’t to be


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Thank you for your kind words guys xx

Just a quick update before work, Mum cat took the removal of her kitten well. I slowly changed the bedding and took out the little teddybears one by one over 12 hours. She checked and searched a couple of times, but I distracted her with treats and eventually she went to sleep. She must have been exhausted. This morning, all her teats are doing fine, none too swollen or hot, she is eating well and chirruping. I know she will be okay. 

xxx


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Miss Sherlock went off to her forever home two days ago to a close friend of the charity I work with who will neuter and vaccinate her. I have in four kittens and a Mum now. Will post in another thread for all to coo over


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

ZoeM said:


> Miss Sherlock went off to her forever home two days ago to a close friend of the charity I work with who will neuter and vaccinate her. I have in four kittens and a Mum now. Will post in another thread for all to coo over


Well done for taking in more. I hope these kittens heal your heart a little after the trauma of Miss Sherlock's kittening


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Sorry for the way things turned out, I’m glad mum is now in her forever home.

I’m sure you’ll enjoy the new little fosters.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Rufus15 said:


> Well done for taking in more. I hope these kittens heal your heart a little after the trauma of Miss Sherlock's kittening


That is such a beautiful thing to say @Rufus15 - thank you. I figured, though 4 had died, there are still 400 and more out there in need of help and care. Thank you so much for your kind thoughts xx


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

ZoeM said:


> That is such a beautiful thing to say @Rufus15 - thank you. I figured, though 4 had died, there are still 400 and more out there in need of help and care. Thank you so much for your kind thoughts xx


Spam us with piccies please


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