# spaying an anxious bitch.



## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

through no fault of her own or her breeding, Poppet has developed major seperation anxiety- and is generally 'wound up'. it's my (and my drs  ) fault. i have major anxiety (amongst other) issues myself, and every time they mess with my meds poppet gets worse- so i'm throwing in the towel and having her spayed. not an easy choice as i spent many long hours researching studs to finally get poppet and having got her have now messed her up.
she's in heat now, so it won't be for 3-4months yet (her cycle is generally 8-10 moths), but i know the correlation between nervousness and neutering males- is it the same for females?


it's since i've got my flat this has happened- this time a year ago i had the perfect yorkie, but during that year i've had more downs than ups- to the point i got scared to leave the girls alone in the flat in case the b&$$2 upstairs reported them (she sent a complaint about noise when my 4 month nephew was staying) so to calm me since christmas i've been sending the girls to my mums while i'm at college. it hasn't worked, it's made things way worse as i'd worried it would. coincidentally it was just before christmas i was taken off meds that worked to something else to 'see if they help' with sleep (they didn't- they actually couldn't!!! so that'll teach me to need a dr when my own is not available! and yeah, i am blaming her.) i'm now Just back on the 'right' ones so she may well improve with me again.
i am 100% taking her back to training (even if it means my dad handling her so she can't feed off me) as our trainer was fab and i'm sure he'll be able to help her somehow- it was him who first pointed out that she was reacting because i was scared (which i honestly couldn't notice at the time) of the group of people, so to get my head together and then come back with a whole new poppet. i'll be heading back with a whole new poppet alright, but not the pup he originally got to know. 


i couldn't feel more rotten about this- she's a 2nd gen home bred, and I've failed.
i just don't know anymore. if i can't get her fixed i can't get me fixed- but it seems she won't fix until i do. please, what do i do?


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## Bagrat (Jun 4, 2012)

I know nothing about how spaying affects the emotional state of a bitch, but I do know that you have not failed. You didn't choose to develop anxious behaviours. Behaviours can be changed and that goes for you and Poppet.
She will be aware of your feelings of anxiety as you know but please don't feel this is a one way street. Things can change for the better in your way of managing what life throws at you and the same is true of Poppet.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I've had a fair number of bitches spayed over the years, (my own and rescues).

Honestly, in my experience, if anything, bitches become a little steadier in temperament after spaying.

We all know what hormones can do, PMT, Menopause, etc., and I do think bitches can be affected in the same way to some degree.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

It's not quite the same, bitches tend to get bolder - for instance if you have a female that likes a bit of a scrap, she could get worse...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BoredomBusters said:


> It's not quite the same, bitches tend to get bolder - for instance if you have a female that likes a bit of a scrap, she could get worse...


Oh, I never really found that.

Bitches can tend to be more aggressive towards other bitches when hormones are playing a part.

I always found that bitches became less competitive after spaying.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I'm just wondering how you will feel though if she is spayed and it didn't change anything. From your post I'd worry that you would feel guilty even though you shouldn't. Why don't you wait and see how training goes. My yorkie benefited from training and has now started agility. She has been spayed, but I had no intention of breeding her and I don't know if it changed her temperament. I do know that my Lhasa/poodle has been neutered, but is very sensitive.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

Is there not a danger that Poppy could become more anxious after being spayed?

I know that in a male dog, fear and nerves can intensify if the dog is neutered.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Oh, I never really found that.
> 
> Bitches can tend to be more aggressive towards other bitches when hormones are playing a part.
> 
> I always found that bitches became less competitive after spaying.


That might be true for you, but as part of my studying it was found bitches who fought were worse after spaying - if your bitches weren't fighting first that might be why you've found no difference. Fear is not usually a problem, either way.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

We were taught on the coape course that a bitch when spayed can become more competitive due to the increase in testosterone. This I believe only happens if in the womb your bitch was laid between 2 males and got extra shots of testosterone. 
the downside of having an unsprayed bitch is not going out when she is in season, which can have a poor effect on a nervous bitch.
Best of luck what ever you do, these decisions are never easy.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

No. IMO a bitch does not get more timid after spaying. 
The percentage of testosterone increases due to the lesser amount of oestregen produced. So if anything a bitch will get more bold. 
I have had a bitch with the syndrome of excess testosterone. Trust me, she never showed fear in her life! She would swagger up to enormous dogs and, if allowed, smack them down.  Sadly, we didn`t realise the cause until after she was spayed......
However - if this is a behavioural issue, it needs to be addressed with training during the period that the hormones are adjusting (this can take up to 6 months). Because she may well react in ways you don`t want.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Owned By A Yellow Lab said:


> Is there not a danger that Poppy could become more anxious after being spayed?
> 
> I know that in a male dog, fear and nerves can intensify if the dog is neutered.


this is exactly my worry. but when you think how delicate some women can be at different times purely from hormones, could the same be true of dogs?
as i say, i really just don't know.

she'll be heading to see the trainer after she is out of season- so it'll be at least 3/4 months before it would even be safe to spay her, so it'll give me plenty of time to decide what to do...

it's just i noticed recently how my parents minding her all the time isn't helping her- with her being in heat we had to keep dexx away (even though he's neutered) and plus my mums Missy took a dislike to popp a while back as well so has to be kept separate. but poppet has now got to the point she doesn't like being kept separate, even if its on a rotation type thing. it isn't fair on my dad either! and spending so much time in the house with missy- who really doesn't like her  - again, isn't helping.

i can imagine the look of the trainers face to- knowing that she's a great girl... tempted to go to another and explain it to them if i'm honest 

*you know, the more i sit and Really think, the more i'm thinking i might just need to get a good trainer in- for me! i know what i Should do, just, can't seem to implement it alone? (does that make any sense!?)


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2014)

I have a dog with anxiety (I have it as well)


My dog has fear issues which I think were made worse through spaying not by much though.


I wanted my dog spayed as I didn't wish to breed her and I also didn't want seasons getting in the way of our exersie as I don't drive their is nowere safe I could take her. 

Their is also a male collie at the back of my garden and I have no idea if he is entire he is also a Merle and their are lots of dogs in the neighbourhood. I have heard that females attract males when in season so this concerned me a great deal. 

Would I spay or neuter again? Yes! 

I have no intention of breeding my dogs Millie and future will be pets and I certainly do not want accidental litters or to leave it to chance a few dogs that are in my area and especially my neighbourhood are allowed off the leash pulic paths and down our street I would hate to leave it to chance.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Jenny Olley said:


> We were taught on the coape course that a bitch when spayed can become more competitive due to the increase in testosterone. *This I believe only happens if in the womb your bitch was laid between 2 males and got extra shots of testosterone*.
> the downside of having an unsprayed bitch is not going out when she is in season, which can have a poor effect on a nervous bitch.
> Best of luck what ever you do, these decisions are never easy.


So, how exactly was this conclusion arrived at? Were sample puppies somehow located and sexed whilst still inside the dam, then followed up for their lifetimes under identical rearing and homing circumstances?

Sounds like an unsubstantiated theory that someone's cooked up to me!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I have a similar dilemma since discovering Tango isn't spayed, at 10 yrs old. She's quite a nervous timid little dog but gaining confidence with other dogs and humans. The last thng I want to do is risk a change in her temperament for the worse , she's very sweet natured now ,so for the time being we're leaving well alone. Fortunately there are no intact dogs roaming round our neighbourhood, the garden is very secure, she's always walked on lead ,so I feel is quite safe. Also she's only had one season since we got her over a year ago. 
The benefits of spaying related to mammary tumours is not relevant as spaying needs to be done before the first season to provide protection.

I do agree that having your Poppet spayed may not be the answer to hers and your problems and could add to your feelings of guilt and inadequacy. I can't see in any way how you could have let her down, your love and concern for the welfare of your dogs is plain to see, be kind to yourself ! I really hope you feel better soon, having suffered bouts of anxiety in the past I know how awful it is.
Take care ! xx


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Burrowzig said:


> So, how exactly was this conclusion arrived at? Were sample puppies somehow located and sexed whilst still inside the dam, then followed up for their lifetimes under identical rearing and homing circumstances?
> 
> Sounds like an unsubstantiated theory that someone's cooked up to me!


No - it is a valid piece of research afaik. My bitch was certainly masculine. She peed up trees for instance, going to acrobatic lengths to do so.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

Burrowzig said:


> So, how exactly was this conclusion arrived at? Were sample puppies somehow located and sexed whilst still inside the dam, then followed up for their lifetimes under identical rearing and homing circumstances?
> 
> Sounds like an unsubstantiated theory that someone's cooked up to me!


No idea I'm afraid, was a long time go that I did the coape course, so don't have the notes any more, they had a name for these bitches, possibly T2's.
I know a lot of bitches post spay who cock legs when they didn't pre spay, although I am aware unspayed bitches can also be leg cockers.


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