# Mis-mate jab for cats



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

...any such thing breeders??


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Does this mean you have your beautiful girl back now hun.

Sorry to say i have no idea to your question, other breeders will know. xxxxx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Does this mean you have your beautiful girl back now hun.
> 
> Sorry to say i have no idea to your question, other breeders will know. xxxxx


it does indeed cc I want to be on the safe side if poss


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Fantastic news, and how is the news on the human baby. xxxx


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

I posted about this out of curiosity a while ago funnily enough! How strange! Here's the replies I got 

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/296213-mismate-jabs-cats.html


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I was under the probably incorrect impression that a substantial dose of Ovarid (not sure how much) would prevent implantation. Think she went missing yesterday? So she is just about to ovulate. Fertilisation take another day or so and implantation takes up to 14 days from mating, I was amazed to find out.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

so from what I gather there is drug called alizin sounds like my only option if I don't want to risk another pregnancy.

Anyone got any info on this drug I know soupie seems to know a fair bit.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> Fantastic news, and how is the news on the human baby. xxxx


Human bub is great im 12 weeks.And just one in there thank god lol.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> I was under the probably incorrect impression that a substantial dose of Ovarid (not sure how much) would prevent implantation. Think she went missing yesterday? So she is just about to ovulate. Fertilisation take another day or so and implantation takes up to 14 days from mating, I was amazed to find out.


So if I get get a vet to give her this drug when do you think is the best time.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Not the faintest, you need to ask your vet PDQ about what they think they can do and if nothing, ring around a bit.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Not the faintest, you need to ask your vet PDQ about what they think they can do and if nothing, ring around a bit.


Yeah I will get on with that in the morning.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

http://www.bsava.com/portals/0/media/small_animal_formulary_7e_rev300611.pdf

If you search the document for alizin (for some reason it wont let me cut n paste), it has the dosages etc for queens.

Also here... http://www.tc.umn.edu/~rootk001/repro_pharm_article.pdf
Table 1. Drugs Used to Prevent or Terminate Pregnancy in Canine and Feline Patients gives what looks like to be a thorough list of abortificants for dogs and cats along with dosages etc.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> http://www.bsava.com/portals/0/media/small_animal_formulary_7e_rev300611.pdf
> 
> If you search the document for alizin (for some reason it wont let me cut n paste), it has the dosages etc for queens.
> 
> ...


hi thanx for that that will be handy to show any vets unwilling to try it.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I hope something can be done for tassy. xxxxx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Receptionist is calling me back in a bit they gave alizin to a rabbit yesterday so it looks hopeful.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Also what healt tests will tass now need is it the fiv,felv and when would be best time for her to have it done?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

She has been out so personally I'd do flea treatment (actually would have done it by now), worm her (Milbemax - you never know what she has been eating) and ask the vet when she should be tested. I have no idea how long it takes for antibodies to develop and I believe those are what the test is measuring.

If her test is positive for FIV, FeLV or even both you should consider a second one of a different type before taking any drastic action - false positives are not unknown. Sadly neither are false negatives but I have no idea what the rate for either is, or if the false positive includes kittens with maternal antibodies that later go.

Edit: found some more info:
http://www.fivtherapy.com/fiv_testing.htm



> *A possibly newly infected cat. *
> Although seroconversion to FIV+ status may occur within as little as two weeks, six to eight weeks are the generally held standard. One source has reported seroconversion at nearly the one-year mark. Although it is recommended that cats bitten by another cat whose FIV status is either known or unknown be taken to the vet, treated, and tested at that time, the results of such tests, whether positive, negative, or equivocal, should always be confirmed by subsequent testing at or beyond the eight-week mark


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> She has been out so personally I'd do flea treatment (actually would have done it by now), worm her (Milbemax - you never know what she has been eating) and ask the vet when she should be tested. I have no idea how long it takes for antibodies to develop and I believe those are what the test is measuring.
> 
> If her test is positive for FIV, FeLV or even both you should consider a second one of a different type before taking any drastic action - false positives are not unknown. Sadly neither are false negatives but I have no idea what the rate for either is, or if the false positive includes kittens with maternal antibodies that later go.
> 
> ...


She was front lined last night.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

The standard here for rescues is to test 12 weeks after the last possible infection time, keeping them in quarantine from other cats during that time. 

From what I've read in the dog section there are quite a few who wouldn't use the mis-mate jab on their dogs. 

I suppose just weigh up the risks of Azlin vs having a litter so close to the last. If you can find a vet who'll give it to you, good luck with whatever you decide. 
Perhaps you'll be lucky and the cat she was with was neutered.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> The standard here for rescues is to test 12 weeks after the last possible infection time, keeping them in quarantine from other cats during that time.
> 
> From what I've read in the dog section there are quite a few who wouldn't use the mis-mate jab on their dogs.
> 
> ...


That's the thing im not 100% she has mated as I never seen her with a cat,however shes no longer acting in call seems content so I don't know.

What are the risks that you read in the dog section?

She is in great condition mind you wouldn't tell she had a litter 6 week ago.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

I have missed something?? I am assuming Tassy got out whilst calling? how long was she gone for and where did you find her?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> What are the risks that you read in the dog section?


Couldn't tell you, I don't read it often enough, just noticed some saying they wouldn't use it.
But dogs are not cats so likely irrelevant anyway 

Would she normally come off call right after mating? Or perhaps the adventure knocked her off like taking a girl to stud can.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Couldn't tell you, I don't read it often enough, just noticed some saying they wouldn't use it.
> But dogs are not cats so likely irrelevant anyway
> 
> Would she normally come off call right after mating? Or perhaps the adventure knocked her off like taking a girl to stud can.


Tbh last time I bred her she was bred over 5 days she was still interested in more from the male after that.She was in call 2 days before she escaped and was missing a day and half.

She now not really interested in the kittens.

Iv decided I don't really like the idea of the mis-mate as there is risks such as bleeding plus it might not end the pregnancy just cause problems.

Im hoping she never was with a male and if she was I hope it was neutered or that she didn't mate long enough to take.

I guess things could be worse ill just have to deal with whatever the outcome is.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Make sure to mark the calendar, and check in 21 days 

It does sound like mis-mate isn't worth it, end of the day she's back safely and that's the most important thing.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> Make sure to mark the calendar, and check in 21 days
> 
> It does sound like mis-mate isn't worth it, end of the day she's back safely and that's the most important thing.


Was just thinking to myself to do that.

Her condition is good enough to cope with another litter I have the raw feed to thank for that.

Just a waiting game now feels strange actually hoping one of my cats ISNT pregnant.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Fingers crossed she isn't pregnant, I hope she at least asked his name first!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Aurelie said:


> Fingers crossed she isn't pregnant, I hope she at least asked his name first!


Lol well the only info I got was that she was seen with a tabby but after listening to the people who said they had seen her most I can say with certainty it wasn't her I even got calls after I found her it just shows you people like to give you the run around.

Im just happy I have her back and that's the main thing shes her safe with me.

I do wonder if she was between these two fences the whole time the only way into the gap was from 6 ft up so she will have had to drop down into the space there was no way to get her out other that break the fence and she was very dusty so maybe Im one very lucky person and I have learnt a lesson to remember.

I don't think you can stop a determined cat and im thinking about buying some safety corridors to place on the outside of my front and back door.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Lol well the only info I got was that she was seen with a tabby but after listening to the people who said they had seen her most I can say with certainty it wasn't her I even got calls after I found her it just shows you people like to give you the run around.
> 
> Im just happy I have her back and that's the main thing shes her safe with me.
> 
> ...


Good idea 

But you did see a tabby cat sitting under your car didn't you, after she returned?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Treaclesmum said:


> Good idea
> 
> But you did see a tabby cat sitting under your car didn't you, after she returned?


I didn't OH did but it was tabby with white and the people across the roads have two tabbys and they are fixed so maybe just maybe.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Let's keep everything crossed , that Tassy isn't pregnant, and that she was simply wedged between fences ...... 

Thinking about it , if she had been caught in the vicinity , you would have heard the racket that usually accompanies the deed 

Try and stay positive ..... at least she is safe


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Such a difficult situation, and I can imagine an horrific time between losing her and finding her!

What will you do if she pinks up?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> Such a difficult situation, and I can imagine an horrific time between losing her and finding her!
> 
> What will you do if she pinks up?


If she pinks up I will keep giving her the high grade diet that shes on atm and it will be a back to back litter,then if she did kitten I think I would create her with the kittens if she started calling as I cant risk this happening again then I would give her as long a break before the next litter as possible hopefully a good 8 month if she will allow..little minx.

Even just had a tx saying hi I noticed your missing cat on fb..have you found her yet? Very touching.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Lol well the only info I got was that she was seen with a tabby but after listening to the people who said they had seen her most I can say with certainty it wasn't her I even got calls after I found her it just shows you people like to give you the run around.
> 
> Im just happy I have her back and that's the main thing shes her safe with me.
> 
> ...


I think a cat is a cat to many people, or if she was on the move the didn't get a clear look so it's very possible she was just between the fences.

Safety corridors sound like a good idea, I go completely outside the few times I order pizza so no chance of anyone getting out especially by a man who's more interested in the pizza box than his surroundings


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> If she pinks up I will keep giving her the high grade diet that shes on atm and it will be a back to back litter,then if she did kitten I think I would create her with the kittens if she started calling as I cant risk this happening again then I would give her as long a break before the next litter as possible hopefully a good 8 month if she will allow..little minx.
> 
> Even just had a tx saying hi I noticed your missing cat on fb..have you found her yet? Very touching.


I really was hoping you wouldn't say that 

Is it not possible for you to spay her? I understand she is your foundation queen, but she's just had a litter can you not keep one of the girls back to carry on the line?

I know you wont like what I'm saying and most likely a number of others wont. But I can't help but think what is happening is so very similar to all those oops litters that appear on the forums. The only difference being that your queen is a ped and important to your lines. But at what cost?

We can't try and educate the masses who don't realise the damaged they are doing by allowing their pets to breed irresponsibly, and then support someone who is allowing the same no matter who they are.

I do understand the difference, but the same can be said here that's said to others ... each home any potential moggy kitten takes could have been taken by a cat in rescue.

I know she is your foundation queen, but she has had a litter all is not lost and you can carry on her line if you choose to.

Having said all that, this _is_ all speculation, let's hope that she doesn't pink up and gets a clean bill of health when it's time  I'm very happy for you to have your girl return to you.

*cringes as she hits submit*


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Aurelia said:


> I really was hoping you wouldn't say that
> 
> Is it not possible for you to spay her? I understand she is your foundation queen, but she's just had a litter can you not keep one of the girls back to carry on the line?
> 
> ...


I'm glad you posted 

I said in the missing thread I'd seriously consider spaying her, knowing it wouldn't be a popular reply but it's what I would do.
I wouldn't want a moggie litter, that's my personal choice so I put the thought out there. I'd keep a kitten from the current litter instead.

I figure WLBSH has her reasons for going on with a pregnancy if there is one, and that there's been a lot of thought over whether to continue if she is indeed pregnant.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> I really was hoping you wouldn't say that
> 
> Is it not possible for you to spay her? I understand she is your foundation queen, but she's just had a litter can you not keep one of the girls back to carry on the line?
> 
> ...


Thanx you for your reply.

Cats can and do cope with back to back litters and trust me I wouldn't consider this if her last litter had took it out of her but believe me you wouldn't even tell the cat had had a litter.

This isn't a choice iv made easily but this girl is young and fit and still had much to offer to my lines.

What it will mean is that she will be retired early than planned.

My girls have 4 litters then they are retired and iv heard of breeders who do 4 back to back litters then retire early their cats cope,however this isn't something I feel I could do.

This is the first time iv had to consider doing a back to back litter and I wouldn't go through with it if I didn't feel she would cope.

You know cats in the wild do this all the time and they have a much tougher time they don't get their meals brought to them.

I don't expect everyone to agree with and that's your choice I feel experienced enough to know what im doing.

I see no reason to spay this young girl shes in her prime fit healthy I see no reason why she wont cope.

I cant really add much more to reassure you my girl will be fine, we all have our own opinions I cant change how you feel.

All said and done I don't even know the girl is pregnant so I chose not to put a drug into her which could cause serious problems and risk her life through bleeding.

I don't want to go round in circles with this iv made my choice based of many factors therefor there is nothing else to add.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> I'm glad you posted
> 
> I said in the missing thread I'd seriously consider spaying her, knowing it wouldn't be a popular reply but it's what I would do.
> I wouldn't want a moggie litter, that's my personal choice so I put the thought out there. I'd keep a kitten from the current litter instead.
> ...


You actually surprised me there spotty cats as I know you see no problem in back to back litters.

So Im thinking your answer is possibly due to it being a mix breed litter.I know totally not ideal but all I can do in regards to that is test this girl in 12 weeks for the fiv/felv before putting her near my boy.

IF the girl is pregnant i will wait as long as poss before her final litter then she will be spayed so basically this girl could be retired by next year.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> <snip>
> 
> You know cats in the wild do this all the time and they have a much tougher time they don't get their meals brought to them.
> 
> <snip>


And feral cat's kitten mortality is very, very high unless they are being fed, in which case kittens do better until they reach the limits of the food supply. In other words most of their kittens don't make it to adulthood.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> You actually surprised me there spotty cats as I know you see no problem in back to back litters.
> 
> So Im thinking your answer is possibly due to it being a mix breed litter.I know totally not ideal but all I can do in regards to that is test this girl in 12 weeks for the fiv/felv before putting her near my boy.
> 
> IF the girl is pregnant i will wait as long as poss before her final litter then she will be spayed so basically this girl could be retired by next year.


Back to back to me is 12-14 week old kittens and remating.

And it is mostly about the moggy litter, plus health risks. I wouldn't feel right having a cross breed litter.

I don't doubt you want the best for your girl, as I've said before I'm sure you've put a lot of thought into this.

With any luck she won't be pregnant anyway


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Thanx you for your reply.
> 
> Cats can and do cope with back to back litters and trust me I wouldn't consider this if her last litter had took it out of her but believe me you wouldn't even tell the cat had had a litter.
> 
> ...


See I read this and all I can see is your reasoning for doing back to back litters, which I hadn't even touched on 

The other concerns I have is that you allowed your girl back into the fold amongst the other cats and her kittens when she could potentially be carrying anything. Also to test her and get accurate results means a 12 week wait, by this time if she is pregnant the litter will already be here ... What happens if she has picked up something really nasty and passes it on to the kittens? Of course you might be really lucky and escape any such thing, but what if you don't?

Also since she has just had a litter you most likely wont see her pink up, so if something did happen and she develops something nasty from her little adventure she's going to be further along and any decisions will be even harder.

I'm reading this back to myself, it's the same things I/we say to people coming on the forums with oops litters. It really is almost the same thing  Only it's perhaps worse because you know exactly what you're doing


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> I really was hoping you wouldn't say that
> 
> Is it not possible for you to spay her? I understand she is your foundation queen, but she's just had a litter can you not keep one of the girls back to carry on the line?
> 
> ...


I don't think I would spay her on the off chance she might be pregnant. We don't even know she has mated. From where she was found, I think it is most likely she has been in between the two fences all this time. I would do the FIV and FeLV tests just to make sure, and only spay if she should turn out to be positive.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

Jiskefet said:


> I don't think I would spay her on the off chance she might be pregnant. We don't even know she has mated. From where she was found, I think it is most likely she has been in between the two fences all this time. I would do the FIV and FeLV tests just to make sure, and only spay if she should turn out to be positive.


_i also believe she was probably stuck between the two fences the whole time,so hopefully not pregnant,_


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Jiskefet said:


> I don't think I would spay her on the off chance she might be pregnant. We don't even know she has mated. From where she was found, I think it is most likely she has been in between the two fences all this time. I would do the FIV and FeLV tests just to make sure, and only spay if she should turn out to be positive.


But if she is pregnant the kittens will be here before the more accurate test 

But that's not the one and only reason to spay anyway, just one of the reasons not to take a risk.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

It's all abit hear say at the min ... As a breeder I totally understand why WLBSH had chosen not to have Tassy sprayed ... It's been very upsetting for her lets not get the knifes out the draw.. She knows all of her cats inside out and will do the very best for every single one of them ... Please give her our support with this ...


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

I agree with what others have said. I wouldn't spay on the off chance either. Breeders (as I know myself) spend a lot of time and investment on producing excellent quality queens for breeding and to spay on the small chance that she has been caught and is now pregnant seems a little bit extreme if she is likely to produce other litters in future. I am sure WBSH has been through all the outcomes a million times and yes there is a possibility of a litter but the difference between this and the other ooops litters is that this is a female in tip top condition and her and potential kittens will be raised to the highest standards, hardly the same as many accidental litters. However as I have said in previous threads to those with accidental pregnancies I am not here to judge just to offer help and support where I can. Not everything in life is perfect or goes to plan.

I would agree about testing for disease but I think the risks would be small. Surely too any studs or queens kept in outside pens are at risk to a degree from travelling cats.

Anyway I am just pleased that she was found safe and sound, to me that is the priority


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> See I read this and all I can see is your reasoning for doing back to back litters, which I hadn't even touched on
> 
> The other concerns I have is that you allowed your girl back into the fold amongst the other cats and her kittens when she could potentially be carrying anything. Also to test her and get accurate results means a 12 week wait, by this time if she is pregnant the litter will already be here ... What happens if she has picked up something really nasty and passes it on to the kittens? Of course you might be really lucky and escape any such thing, but what if you don't?
> 
> ...


Iv seriously considered not coming back to pet forums cause this has really upset me and iv tried very hard not to come back to this thread.

You are actually wrong and you don't know anything about where my cats are being kept at present so do not try to belittle me.

For your info tassy is not with the kittens you can try to pick fault with too if you wish but there is very good reason behind the choice to removed her from the kittens.

Thankyou to all who have pm'd me with your support it seriously means a lot right now.

Now can we see if the cat is even pregnant before im deemed worst breeder of the year


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Iv seriously considered not coming back to pet forums cause this has really upset me and iv tried very hard not to come back to this thread.
> 
> You are actually wrong and you don't know anything about where my cats are being kept at present so do not try to belittle me.
> 
> ...


I'm only saying what a lot of people are thinking, and you have probably considered yourself. The truth can and does hurt, though it wasn't my intention to hurt you. I debated with myself for a while before I posted at all.

I'm going by where you have said your cats are kept, and I seem to remember you saying in another thread that you had tried her back with the kittens but she wasn't interested (or similar, can't remember word for word). I'm NOT trying to belittle you 

The only reason I am saying all this now before you even know if she is pregnant or not is because I know if she is pregnant and something does go wrong (which I really hope doesn't by the way) any decision you then have to make will be even harder.

I could understand your decision more if she was your one and only breeding queen, or if spaying her meant her line will end, but it doesn't. All health reasons and breeding ethics to one side there is no getting away from the fact that if she is pregnant the kittens will take away homes from other cats/kittens in rescue.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

we love bsh's said:


> Iv seriously considered not coming back to pet forums cause this has really upset me and iv tried very hard not to come back to this thread.
> 
> You are actually wrong and you don't know anything about where my cats are being kept at present so do not try to belittle me.
> 
> ...


_dont you dare think about leaving, sorry you have been upset, dont get yourself upset, as everyone on here that knows you, knows you have thought this through she probably isnt even pregnant, but if she is, you will deal with it, the best you can, then as you said, re test her and see how it goes from there, no need to rush off and get her spayed for maybe spending a night squashed beside the shed !!!!!so chin up my love, let just take one step at a time.xxxx_


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

colliemerles said:


> _dont you dare think about leaving, sorry you have been upset, dont get yourself upset, as everyone on here that knows you, knows you have thought this through she probably isnt even pregnant, but if she is, you will deal with it, the best you can, then as you said, re test her and see how it goes from there, no need to rush off and get her spayed for maybe spending a night squashed beside the shed !!!!!so chin up my love, let just take one step at a time.xxxx_


In all honesty cm I think you are right this gap is a 6ft drop down and is about a 15cm space between both fences I don't even think she could have managed to climb up such a tight space.

Today I found out how many friends I have you know who you are.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> I'm only saying what a lot of people are thinking, and you have probably considered yourself. The truth can and does hurt, though it wasn't my intention to hurt you. I debated with myself for a while before I posted at all.
> 
> I'm going by where you have said your cats are kept, and I seem to remember you saying in another thread that you had tried her back with the kittens but she wasn't interested (or similar, can't remember word for word). I'm NOT trying to belittle you
> 
> ...


i do wish people would stop with this. if someone wants a kitten, they want a kitten, not a cat- so there goes that part of the argument. if someone wants a rescue kitten, they will get a rescue kitten, not a home bred. if someone is looking for a home bred kitten then surely as long as the queen has all relative health tests then a breeder who just wanted a litter of cute kitties from their lovely 6 month old and a 'stud' down the road.
accident happen, and she's dealing with it in the most rational way she sees fit; considering a litter is less than 50/50 odds...


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> In all honesty cm I think you are right this gap is a 6ft drop down and is about a 15cm space between both fences I don't even think she could have managed to climb up such a tight space.
> 
> Today I found out how many friends I have you know who you are.


I was just thinking about my Millie .. Like you we have 6ft fences it took Millie a good few months to learn how to get over them ... So maybe she has not worked out how to get back up without the aid of a shed roof ... If you know wot I mean


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

colliemerles said:


> _dont you dare think about leaving, sorry you have been upset, dont get yourself upset, as everyone on here that knows you, knows you have thought this through she probably isnt even pregnant, but if she is, you will deal with it, the best you can, then as you said, re test her and see how it goes from there, no need to rush off and get her spayed for maybe spending a night squashed beside the shed !!!!!so chin up my love, let just take one step at a time.xxxx_


......

Agree 100% CM ....

Sara , it is upsetting for you to read other posters comments , but this is an open Forum , and whether we like it or not they are entitled to express their views ..... I have to be honest i could see it coming , not because i agree with their comments , but by their responses in other threads regarding oops litters... Accidents can and do happen , in Tassy's case as i said before i believe she spent the night wedged between the fences , now i know you will do what ever you have to for your girl , whatever happens , and i also know no expense will be spared in protecting her wellbeing or that of her kittens ( present) or future ..... I thought my coonie breeder was good, but you exceed far ,far more i have so much faith in your ethics regarding breeding / welfare, if i did'nt i would not have approached you for my little girl  ..

So Lady as CM says chin up lovely , don't let it get you down , and don't you even dare contemplate leaving , you have so much to give , you know what bugs me is being upfront and honest , begets a keyboard lashing :thumbdown: .... A bit of support and understanding of an individuals circumstances goes a long way ..... xxx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

tincan said:


> ......
> 
> Agree 100% CM ....
> 
> ...


Im lost for words you are very wise speaking and I very much value you honesty and your opinion is very important to me.

I find it hard enough to believe she managed to get down the gap never getting back out,which she couldn't as we had to break fence.

You see to get in I believe she climbed our mesh pens once on top either fell into the drop or she thought that was the only way down.Iv never really had a brit that was a good climber they never really seem to do it.

Anyway im overwhelmed with the pms of support iv learnt some interesting things today :ihih:


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Oh tincan I havnt forgot about your pics I just couldn't come on yesterday but I have batterys on charge now so they should be with you by tomorrow will do you some too cosmills.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Oh tincan I havnt forgot about your pics I just couldn't come on yesterday but I have batterys on charge now so they should be with you by tomorrow will do you some too cosmills.


Thanks hunni ... All ready for her ... New toys, bed and blanky and bowls and litter trays ... Once again very spoilt .. Was feeling down today , so a bit of retail therapy on sapphire


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

kodakkuki said:


> i do wish people would stop with this. if someone wants a kitten, they want a kitten, not a cat- so there goes that part of the argument. if someone wants a rescue kitten, they will get a rescue kitten, not a home bred. if someone is looking for a home bred kitten then surely as long as the queen has all relative health tests then a breeder who just wanted a litter of cute kitties from their lovely 6 month old and a 'stud' down the road.
> accident happen, and she's dealing with it in the most rational way she sees fit; considering a litter is less than 50/50 odds...


 People use this argument because it is TRUE!

Rescues are putting healthy cats to sleep because they have no room for them and a litter of kittens will come in which have a better chance of being homed. So to make room for those kittens the older ones go out the back door. Yes there are no kill shelters that wont do this, but the cats and kittens turned away when they are full might be heading for shelters who do.

If there were fewer litters about from BYB's and oops litters and people want a kitten or cat bad enough they will go to rescue.

The queen has had health tests up until this point, but not knowing who the possible stud or even studs could be and not knowing their health status there is potential for a very rough ride health wise.

Also something else, blood grouping needs to be considered.

It took me a long time to come back to the forums and my health is rotten atm. I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in such threads anymore because it will (and has) made my health worse. I am very passionate about animal welfare, and very much believe in looking out for those already on this earth as much as we can before looking at bringing more into the world ... unless those brought in can help the health and welfare of future generations.

I clicked on this thread initially because of the title, and was a bit excited at the prospect of a mis-mate option for cats! After reading I couldn't then walk away.

I've put the situation to a couple of breeders that I regard highly over the last couple of days as a hypothetical one, more because I wanted to be sure that I wasn't being totally irrational (health issues made me doubt myself). Both have said they would do the same ... spay.

I really am sorry if what I have said has upset anyone, I truly am, but my thoughts are about the cats. Not just WLBSH's cats but the potential knock on effect for others that wont be seen or heard about


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

And if cockerrags likes the last post I guess its cause we had history makes sence now.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Thanks hunni ... All ready for her ... New toys, bed and blanky and bowls and litter trays ... Once again very spoilt .. Was feeling down today , so a bit of retail therapy on sapphire


Aww you missing rosie you don't realise how much you miss them to their gone..but pitter patter of little feet to look forward to hun.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> And if cockerrags likes the last post I guess its cause we had history makes sence now.


You know I had a look who that was as I didn't recognise the name. On doing so I looked at their 3 posts, and then read the rest of the thread they were in. It reminded me why I posted in this thread in the first place instead of walking away


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> People use this argument because it is TRUE!
> 
> Rescues are putting healthy cats to sleep because they have no room for them and a litter of kittens will come in which have a better chance of being homed. So to make room for those kittens the older ones go out the back door. Yes there are no kill shelters that wont do this, but the cats and kittens turned away when they are full might be heading for shelters who do.
> 
> ...


Blood groups most mogs are group A tass is A carrying b ..no probs there.

I to know many breeders who would not spay on the slight chance the cats pregnant,many breeders on here feel same..grrr why did I bite.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> You know I had a look who that was as I didn't recognise the name. On doing so I looked at their 3 posts, and then read the rest of the thread they were in. It reminded me why I posted in this thread in the first place instead of walking away


Do you mind me asking why you don't breed any more?


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Personally, I don't think that all moggy kittens are taking away places from rescue kittens.

My family have never really liked using rescue centres so my parents chose to buy kittens when I was growing up. The 2 kittens we kept from their litter were like blood relatives to me, because I had known them from birth. I had bonded with Tabby whilst he was still in the nest. At that time, I wouldn't have felt so close to a cat or kitten we'd had from an older age. I am not saying that makes it right or ok to breed moggies on purpose, but I was 10 years old at the time and this was the end of the 1980s (bit different from today). 

I am just saying there are different people for rescue cats/kittens and different people for peds, also different people will buy moggy kittens. There are different types of homes for different types of cats.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Aurelia said:


> People use this argument because it is TRUE!
> 
> Rescues are putting healthy cats to sleep because they have no room for them and a litter of kittens will come in which have a better chance of being homed. So to make room for those kittens the older ones go out the back door. Yes there are no kill shelters that wont do this, but the cats and kittens turned away when they are full might be heading for shelters who do.
> 
> ...


Ok you have given your opinion and question it with other breeders as you are not a breeder yourself , does not make you or them right .. Old school or new school we all have different ways of dealing with things .. And to be honest and this is my own personally opinion I am happier dealing with new School breeders

I don't believe that IF she does have kit that they will end up in rescue centres .. She will vent the new owners like she does her peds ...


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Aww you missing rosie you don't realise how much you miss them to their gone..but pitter patter of little feet to look forward to hun.


All of us are missing her ... Ruby on food strike and MR D has not shut up .. I need her home in my arms ..


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Cosmills said:


> I don't believe that IF she does have kit that they will end up in rescue centres .. She will vent the new owners like she does her peds ...


Please read what I typed again. I *never* for one second suggested any potential kittens Tassy has would end up in rescue.



we love bsh's said:


> Blood groups most mogs are group A tass is A carrying b ..no probs there.
> 
> I to know many breeders who would not spay on the slight chance the cats pregnant,*many breeders on here feel same*..grrr why did I bite.


And many don't I'm afraid 

If you had said you will wait and see if she was pregnant and then if she is you'll get her spayed I would not have posted at all in this thread. It's not really about spaying her without knowing if she is, it's about spaying her if you know she is. If that makes sense.

Believe it or not the only reason I'm suggesting spaying now is for your benefit mostly, because I know it would be a harder decision to make when/if she is further along and you start thinking about heartbeats and what not. ATM if she is they will be nothing more than cells.

Look you can make me out to be a terrible person and start flinging nasty messages behind the scenes as much as you like (thanks btw, lovely to see people who you think care don't), but it's not going to stop me expressing my opinion and standing up for what I believe in when circumstances arise (like clicking on this thread when I thought it was something it wasn't). That's something I will do until the last breath in my body.

It's clear that it was perhaps a mistake for me to come back to the forums until I'm better. So I will just go back to my quiet little room and recuperate some more. So you can relax. I wish you the best of luck in what ever you eventually decide. I hope she isn't pregnant and her health tests come back 100% clear, as this would be the best outcome.

ETA: if you want to know why I stopped breeding have a look at my post history in breeding section. It's all there, I haven't the energy to type it all out here.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> Please read what I typed again. I *never* for one second suggested any potential kittens Tassy has would end up in rescue.
> 
> And many don't I'm afraid
> 
> ...


Nasty messages 

Still failing to see why having a mix breed litter makes you feel the girl isn't up to producing and full ped litter in the future once health tests come back clear

Thank you take care.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

It's clear that it was perhaps a mistake for me to come back to the forums until I'm better. So I will just go back to my quiet little room and recuperate some more. So you can relax. I wish you the best of luck in what ever you eventually decide. I hope she isn't pregnant and her health tests come back 100% clear, as this would be the best outcome.


Aurelia , i for one do not want you to leave the forum , i think you are entitled to your views/opinions as much as the next person , breeder or not.. 

It Is evident you are passionate about your beliefs , and rightly so , you do what you believe to be right according to your morals/ethics , i admire that i really do ...

But others too have their ways , and reasons for doing what they believe to be in the best interests of their animals welfare ...

WLBSH is doing what she thinks is right for Tassy , and i have every faith in her decision .


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

The chances of her a) having mated are low (no noises heard and squashed between two fence panels makes it unlikely a males could perform the deed and b) the chances of a male infecting a fully vaccinated cat are very, very low. I would be very loathed to spay too. Maybe WLBSH doesn't have a suitable replacement in this litter, maybe she wants a different outcome with a different stud to make a different line. 

Arguments on both sides are valid but this is not the time or the place to be thrashing it out. PMs either should express support or not be sent.

I suggest now that everyone walks away from this thread before it starts getting nasty.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Yes common lets agree to disagree Aurelia you have every right to be here and im sorry you feel the need to walk away from pf please don't feel that is what I want I would feel terrible if I was the reason you walked away.

Mods feel free to close the thread I think everything has been covered.

Friends everyone.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am going to close this. There is no need for this sort of argument or the threats of leaving the forum because of disagreements.
Neither side can claim to be right or wrong over this and whatever decision is taken I am sure will not have been taken lightly.


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