# First litter dying :(



## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

Hi, my cat of 1 years gave birth to 6 kittens yesterday, one was still born. The rest died this afternoon, one after another 
We have taken the kittens away to bury and have removed the birthing box too, but our cat keeps going to the area and sniffs around. She is also being very affectionate, and is meowing loads. Has anyone else experienced anything similar? This experience is absolutely heartbreaking!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

No experience or advice but very sorry to hear it. Were they premature ?
I would strongly advise you to get her spayed ASAP so it doesn't happen again.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It is heartbreaking to lose a litter of kittens  Do you know if they were premature? Was the mother ill during her pregnancy? Did you notice any unusual discharge that may have been the sign of an infection? 
Sadly, mum will probably look for the kittens for a few days but may come back into call very quickly. I would advise that you get her checked by your vet and book her to be spayed as soon as you can.


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## Brambles the cat (Jan 15, 2017)

Thats so sad .im so sorry please get her checked at the vets and definitely spayed as soon as possible as you dont want it happening again for the poor mother .and you .


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Very sad to hear this. 

Please get her spayed as soon as you can. It must be so traumatic for her and would be awful if it happened again. She is still only a kitten. She needs to play, have fun and be nurtured.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Aamenah Patel said:


> Hi, my cat of 1 years gave birth to 6 kittens yesterday, one was still born. The rest died this afternoon, one after another
> We have taken the kittens away to bury and have removed the birthing box too, but our cat keeps going to the area and sniffs around. She is also being very affectionate, and is meowing loads. Has anyone else experienced anything similar? This experience is absolutely heartbreaking!


Welcome to the joys of breeding, the world of life and death. Kittens are incredibly fragile and a newborn kitten can fade and die within a couple of hours. The queen will be very confused, and will wonder where her kittens have gone. It is often better to leave the kittens with the mother for a short time so she realises that they have passed away. She will try to find them and will call for them. That is all perfectly normal behaviour. You must keep a very close eye on her now because she will be at risk of mastitis, a disease where the mammary glands become infected and can slough away. It is a very unpleasant thing to witness and have to deal with, and its no picnic for the queen either.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

SusieRainbow said:


> No experience or advice but very sorry to hear it. Were they premature ?
> I would strongly advise you to get her spayed ASAP so it doesn't happen again.


No they were healthy, but we will get her spayed soon


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

huckybuck said:


> Very sad to hear this.
> 
> Please get her spayed as soon as you can. It must be so traumatic for her and would be awful if it happened again. She is still only a kitten. She needs to play, have fun and be nurtured.


Yes, will do. We're giving her all the attention and love we can possibly give.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

Tigermoon said:


> Welcome to the joys of breeding, the world of life and death. Kittens are incredibly fragile and a newborn kitten can fade and die within a couple of hours. The queen will be very confused, and will wonder where her kittens have gone. It is often better to leave the kittens with the mother for a short time so she realises that they have passed away. She will try to find them and will call for them. That is all perfectly normal behaviour. You must keep a very close eye on her now because she will be at risk of mastitis, a disease where the mammary glands become infected and can slough away. It is a very unpleasant thing to witness and have to deal with, and its no picnic for the queen either.


Thank you so much for your advice and support. The kittens were actually pedigree, and I read that the mortality rate is much higher for them.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Do you mind me asking what breed they were ?


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

S


SusieRainbow said:


> Do you mind me asking what breed they were ?


Sure, British Shorthair Silver Tabby


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

lymorelynn said:


> It is heartbreaking to lose a litter of kittens  Do you know if they were premature? Was the mother ill during her pregnancy? Did you notice any unusual discharge that may have been the sign of an infection?
> Sadly, mum will probably look for the kittens for a few days but may come back into call very quickly. I would advise that you get her checked by your vet and book her to be spayed as soon as you can.


Will do, she is a housecat anyhow.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

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purebred kittens *should not* be any more likely than any random-bred cat's kittens to fade & die... ASSUMING the parents were both checked for heritable problems, some of which are breed-specific [organ issues, etc].
In fact, a skinny, underfed, worm-infested, constantly hungry, frequently chased / often stressed PREGNANT street cat is more likely to lose a whole litter than a well-fed, well-cared-for, indoors, pet cat who gives birth to a litter - whether she's purebred / registered or not.
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The pet cat gets vet-care when she needs it, she's been vaccinated to prevent local infectious diseases from making her sick, has hopefully [with her mate] been screened for heritable issues she [or the sire] can pass to her kittens, she lives in a climate controlled house, she eats good nourishing food, she's fed regularly, she drinks clean water - not from oily puddles in parking lots, nor from streams with random trash thrown into them; she doesn't hunt for wildlife & eat the parasites in their raw bodies, & so on.
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The pet cat isn't fighting with wildlife - such as here in the U-S with raccoons, who are, like cats, territorial & aggressive -- nor is she being chased by dogs, threatened by traffic, stoned by malicious people who don't want her pooping in their kids' sand-box, etc.
She leads a cushy life; *the street stray has no safe place* to withdraw to, everywhere is a potentially unsafe place.
The strays' kittens drown when it rains, die of hypothermia or catch distemper, starve when mum has no milk b/c she can't find enuf food, are killed by tomcats or dogs or another queen, die of anemia due to parasite loads, etc, etc.
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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Were both parents blood tested to ensure compatibility?


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

catcoonz said:


> Were both parents blood tested to ensure compatibility?


Just what I was thinking.
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/british-shorthair-blood-group-help.167889/


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

catcoonz said:


> Were both parents blood tested to ensure compatibility?


Goodness, no! We didn't know such a thinh even existed.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Tragically that could be your answer. It won't bring the kittens back and I would still get mum spayed, but if you decide to breed again you will know. There are all sorts of health tests required before breeding, not just vet checks. Were both cats registered for breeding?
I won't say any more, as I said nothing will bring those kittens back, it could be unrelated.Whatever happened you've had more than enough grief to contend with.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Oh dear, this really is something you should have known, especially with the breed of cats.
I am very surprised your mentor, the person who sold you the girl never mentioned such vital information.
I expect, well i am 100% sure this is why all your kittens died.

I am so sorry for you, your girl and those little babies.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

SusieRainbow said:


> Tragically that could be your answer. It won't bring the kittens back and I would still get mum spayed, but if you decide to breed again you will know. There are all sorts of health tests required before breeding, not just vet checks. Were both cats registered for breeding?
> I won't say any more, as I said nothing will bring those kittens back, it could be unrelated.Whatever happened you've had more than enough grief to contend with.


That is really shocking, but thank you ever so much! We bought our cat, and when she came into heat we asked her previous owner (who breeds cats) what we could do as we wanted some kittens. He gave us a male from the same breed, and this is what happened.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

catcoonz said:


> Oh dear, this really is something you should have known, especially with the breed of cats.
> I am very surprised your mentor, the person who sold you the girl never mentioned such vital information.
> I expect, well i am 100% sure this is why all your kittens died.
> 
> I am so sorry for you, your girl and those little babies.


Thank you so much for the clarification, it certainly makes us feel better as we felt that we hadn't cared for them correctly. We will be contacting the previous owner immediately. Once again, many thanks.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Well, you've really learned the hard way and your breeder should certainly have known the risks involved . Please make sure you tell her and make absolutely sure you only get breeding cats from experienced, ethical breeders and do lots of research if you intend to breed again.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

SusieRainbow said:


> Well, you've really learned the hard way and your breeder should certainly have known the risks involved . Please make sure you tell her and make absolutely sure you only get breeding cats from experienced, ethical breeders and do lots of research if you intend to breed again.


Sadly we have! But thank you once again


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

The best way you can move forward is to have your girl spayed, research the breed, talk to registered breeders.
Registered breeders will mentor you, they will steer you in the right direction and help you breed the best of that breed.
Most importantly, they are the ones who will give you the correct advise.

Sadly, you learnt a very sad lesson today, and although upsetting, had you received all the vital information, your kittens would still be here.
Not a pleasant experience and i do hope your girl is alright.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

catcoonz said:


> The best way you can move forward is to have your girl spayed, research the breed, talk to registered breeders.
> Registered breeders will mentor you, they will steer you in the right direction and help you breed the best of that breed.
> Most importantly, they are the ones who will give you the correct advise.
> 
> ...


Indeed, it's very tragic. We're getting her spayed soon.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Don't leave spaying too long, she will be back in season soon.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

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she can enter a "kitten heat" within 12 to 14 days of giving birth, so make that appt real soon. 
I do hope she is otherwise fine - having her checked to be sure she *retained no placentae* would also, i think, be a good precaution.
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If it's too late at night to see a vet / assuming she's seen no vet since she finished kittening, i'd take her rectal temp, just to see if she's in the normal range for core temps. // Get a nice tasty treat for her, & give her a tiny piece. [Chicken breast, canned fish, ___ ] . Put the dish nearby, out of her reach, for after.
Slip a sandwich bag over the digital probe's tip, to keep it clean; lay the bagged probe down within reach, & support her with one hand under her abdomen from behind, so she is straddling Ur hand & U can easily lift her rear legs if she* thinks* about jumping off the [table, footstool, sofa, ___ ].
With that hand under her belly, pet her 2 or 3 times with the other hand: long, firm strokes, head to tail, all the way down her back - this will help her relax; then pick up the bagged probe, turn it on, & gently slip it straight into her anus.
HOLD HER REAR FEET slightly above the surface so she can't leap away - she's gonna be startled. But the probe doesn't hurt, & it only needs to go in an inch plus - keep her calm, talk to her, & as soon as it beeps, it's reached a stable temp. Slide it out WITH the baggie, & look at the reading - 99' F to 101' F is all within normal; 102' F & up is *fever*. Note her temp, & the time.
Slip the baggie off inside out, trash it, & put away the clean probe.
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Tell her what a good kitty she is, & give her 3 or 4 small tidbits of her goody with lots of warm praise for her co-operation; next time she needs her temp taken, it will be easier, as she will remember it didn't hurt, & she got nice treats.
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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> she can enter a "kitten heat" within 12 to 14 days of giving birth, so make that appt real soon.
> I do hope she is otherwise fine - having her checked to be sure she *retained no placentae* would also, i think, be a good precaution.
> ...


Thank you very much


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

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do let us know how she - & U all, as a family - get on, please? ... We'll hope for good news in the updates, & maybe some pictures, too. 
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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> do let us know how she - & U all, as a family - get on, please? ... We'll hope for good news in the updates, & maybe some pictures, too.
> .
> ...


Thank you for your kindness. We definitely will do


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## Babyshoes (Jul 1, 2016)

I'm sorry to hear this, must be heartbreaking for you. I'm glad she'll be spayed to stop it happening in the future. 

It has been mentioned that she will be at risk of mastitis - the vet can give her medicine to dry up her milk, or another option (if you can face it) is to ask if there's any orphaned kittens in a nearby rescue needing a foster mum for a couple of months. If she's still looking for her kittens it might help her emotionally too. You'll need to get them ASAP though (today if possible or tomorrow at latest), and of course she can come into season again while feeding so you will have to keep her inside until after they're weaned & you can get her spayed. It's not an easy option for you, but just another possibility to discuss with your vet, who I assume you'll be seeing today!


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

Aamenah Patel said:


> Thank you for your kindness. We definitely will do


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

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aww - she IS a beauty.  // As above, a foster litter would definitely help her with the transition - emotionally & physically, as she would have kittens to care for, & her milk would be in demand, not swelling painfully under her skin.
Any local shelter, cat-rescue, or other helpers of needy cats - like possibly Ur vet, who may know of a queen who recently died & orphaned a young litter - would be THRILLED to have a foster-dam to care for & feed a neonatal litter. Bottle-feeding is a last resort, a mum - even an inexperienced one - is better than a hot-water bottle & a human caregiver.
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I'd make some urgent phone calls, while her maternal hormones are still high & she's actively looking for her missing infants. // A good initial step would be asking the vet, while s/he examines her to be sure all the birth tissue is gone & she's recovering well. *hint, hint... * 
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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
an article on blood-group incompatibility [which occurs in many breeds] -
https://icatcare.org/advice/cat-health/feline-blood-groups-and-blood-incompatibility
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The article also explains why it's a risk, the effect on the kittens, & how to prevent it - removing affected kittens from Mum for 24- to 36-hours BEFORE they nurse from her, after they've been blood-typed using cord blood to see which kittens are susceptible, is pretty simple, as solutions go. 
Finding feline colostrum to give to the neonates is not mentioned, but i'd ASK about that - the initial flow of high-ash, high-antibody milk is important for healthy gut function, & passive protection from infectious diseases via Mum-cat's antibodies, until the kitten's immune system is fully functioning, is also very important.
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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Aamenah Patel said:


> Will do, she is a housecat anyhow.


I might have missed it, but is she registered for breeding? If not obviously spaying is the right thing to do, otherwise I wouldn't rush. I'd check what blood group she is and take it from there.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Cat in question is Pet, (Not Active).


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

She's very beautiful, but looks awfully young to be breeding. I have no experience in this at all, but it's very sad news that all the kittens died.  I am glad you've been open-minded and been able to take the advice on board from other members on the forum, some of whom have years of experience. I hope your cat recovers well from her trauma, and that you can get her neutered as soon as she is well enough.
What is your cats name?


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

Jackie C said:


> She's very beautiful, but looks awfully young to be breeding. I have no experience in this at all, but it's very sad news that all the kittens died.  I am glad you've been open-minded and been able to take the advice on board from other members on the forum, some of whom have years of experience. I hope your cat recovers well from her trauma, and that you can get her neutered as soon as she is well enough.
> What is your cats name?


Her name is Min


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

Hi guys,
I'd just like to say thank you for all the love and support, it really has helped us through. This forum has been really wonderful. Our little cutie seems to be recovering, she's eating well and is responding to toys. Still being very clingy and over affectionate though.

(Please excuse my ignorance,) but if we wanted her to mate again, would we have to register her, and how?


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Aamenah Patel said:


> (Please excuse my ignorance,) but if we wanted her to mate again, would we have to register her, and how?


Please please please don't put her through it again.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

huckybuck said:


> Please please please don't put her through it again.


We're torn between getting her spayed and letting her have kittens again :/


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

A good breeder would never sell a cat for breeding to someone new to the breed and breeding itself. Let alone then give them a male cat to allow breeding to take place.

Most good ethical breeders would sell a pet first and create a relationship with you whilst you learn about the breed. Later down the line they may work with you with regards to a breeding plan with a suitable queen.

All this takes time.

Good breeders would only put their breeding queens through one pregnancy a year. If things went wrong they would seriously question trying again.

Ultimately the queen's welfare would always come first and they would never think about trying again so soon after a failed litter.

You are not thinking about your poor cat. You are only thinking about yourself.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Agreed. You need to do so much more research before you even consider breeding. She has unknown ancestry, unregistered, just lost a litter to a complication you didn't know existed ,and she"s still a baby herself. She doesn't need kittens, why would you want to breed her? Please don't.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

huckybuck said:


> A good breeder would never sell a cat for breeding to someone new to the breed and breeding itself. Let alone then give them a male cat to allow breeding to take place.
> 
> Most good ethical breeders would sell a pet first and create a relationship with you whilst you learn about the breed. Later down the line they may work with you with regards to a breeding plan with a suitable queen.
> 
> ...


Not at all! We just don't want to deny her right to have kittens, that is all. But I think we are more inclined to having her spayed.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

T


SusieRainbow said:


> Agreed. You need to do so much more research before you even consider breeding. She has unknown ancestry, unregistered, just lost a litter to a complication you didn't know existed ,and she"s still a baby herself. She doesn't need kittens, why would you want to breed her? Please don't.


Thank you for the advice. We just want her to have some company, so we might get another cat.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
OK, this is confusing - 
if she's a purebred kitten, she **should have** registered parents, & be registered with her siblings - as a litter.
.
If they didn't bother to register the litter, U should at least have *paperwork listing her parents' registration*, with or without an appended pedigree for each parent, but definitely including such details as dam's registry #, coat color, eye color, DoB, sire's same details, OWNERS' names for both sire & dam, & so on.
With those details [parents' registered #s, etc], U can then register her individually, for a separate fee.
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OTOH - if she's not of good type for her breed [& i'm guessing she's never been shown], U might want to show her - it's one way of "proving" her quality, which helps to decide if she's literally a good addition to the gene pool.
If she's poor type, then don't even consider breeding her, would be my advice - a cat who could never win a breed championship is still a lovely pet, their external criteria have no important influence on their personalities. "Wrong" eye color or an unrecognized coat-color or ears that lack the correct angle? ... Pish & tosh. Who cares?
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So... if she HAS a pedigree behind her, AND she's of good type - which is yet to be determined! - she *might* be a possible dam.
If she has no paperwork to uphold her claim / her breeder's claim to be purebred, i'd assume she's not; she might be 50% or 75%, but without her parents' registration, there's nothing to "register".
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There's certainly no reason to breed her if U want to avoid risking her life & health again; it's not a guaranteed happy ending.  U could lose her, 1 or more kittens, the whole litter, or have an emergency C-section with no survivors; not the mum, & no living babies, either. // It's always a risk.
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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

leashedForLife said:


> .
> OK, this is confusing -
> if she's a purebred kitten, she **should have** registered parents, & be registered with her siblings - as a litter.
> .
> ...


Yeah, I don't believe she is 100% pure bred either. Previous owner didn't register, or provide us with any documents. (It's all very shady). Reading all your suggestions, I agree that it's notva good idea for her to mate again, we don't want her to go through any more pain.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

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If U have no paperwork, then I'd def spay her.  The world is overflowing with already existing "surplus" cats & kittens, all of whom need homes, love, vet care, vaccines, decent food, & all the rest of a happy, well-care-for life; breeding another pet cat is really not defensible, at this point.
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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

huckybuck said:


> <snip>
> Good breeders would only put their breeding queens through one pregnancy a year. If things went wrong they would seriously question trying again.
> <snip>


Not true. How often a female can be safely and successfully bred depends on her, and cats vary hugely. Some need quite some time to get over a pregnancy, others are fit & ready a couple of weeks after kittens have left, and some call so much that another pregnancy is the only sensible thing to do unless she is spayed.

Cats that are allowed a litter after a section also often delivery successfully - it depends on why the section was needed in the first place.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Only the breeder who bred her can register her.
As she is not registered already, there must be a reason for this.

You seriously worry me. You thought blood tests were negative, but have no idea on Blood Group.
You have too much to learn about the breed. You would only be breeding to have kittens, and not to further the breed which is what breeders do.
All you would be is a back street breeder, none of the offspring could be registered.
If you go about breeding the correct way, as i have already suggested, you will have a registered Active girl, who is right for breeding, you will get more help and it would open doors to studs who are breed standard and had all the relevant tests including knowing blood groups.

Sorry, but your lack of knowledge already tells me you have no idea what you are doing, and very likely to lose another litter.

How many litters do you need to lose before you start breeding properly?

The person you got your girl from, being the same person who lent you the boy also has no idea what he is doing either. You need a Mentor and not some idiot who churns out kittens, he should have known about blood groups as well.

Lack of basic knowledge brings suffering to kittens, you know this already as you have first hand experience of the litter dying.

No reason why you cannot start the correct way. I have already told you how to do this.


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## Shrike (Jun 25, 2015)

Aamenah Patel said:


> Not at all! We just don't want to deny her right to have kittens, that is all. But I think we are more inclined to having her spayed.


Cats don't have a sense of completion once they've had kittens, if anything it leaves them at more risk of problems later in life. Your idea of getting her a companion is much better - I think rescues will have plenty of kittens and young cats needing loving homes at the moment.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

D


Shrike said:


> Cats don't have a sense of completion once they've had kittens, if anything it leaves them at more risk of problems later in life. Your idea of getting her a companion is much better - I think rescues will have plenty of kittens and young cats needing loving homes at the moment.


Definitely, thank you


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Not true. How often a female can be safely and successfully bred depends on her, and cats vary hugely. Some need quite some time to get over a pregnancy, others are fit & ready a couple of weeks after kittens have left, and some call so much that another pregnancy is the only sensible thing to do unless she is spayed.
> 
> Cats that are allowed a litter after a section also often delivery successfully - it depends on why the section was needed in the first place.


Well I personally wouldn't buy from a breeder who allows their queen to have more than one litter a year - IMO she is simply a breeding machine for the benefit of the breeder. Only MY opinion.

BTW don't the GCCF recommend no more that 3 litters in 2 years?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

HB, Gccf only recommend not more than 3 litters in 2 years, but they do still register and it is not a rule.
Some queens may get too stressed if they are not mated more than once a year, so breeders evaluate on each queen.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

huckybuck said:


> Well I personally wouldn't buy from a breeder who allows their queen to have more than one litter a year - IMO she is simply a breeding machine for the benefit of the breeder. Only MY opinion.


Such an inflexible attitude could be very detrimental to the health/welfare of some queens. It's lovely when real life follows generalised internet wisdom but it doesn't always work that way.


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## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

Well the poster does seem be open to accepting advice, which is good

I think a lot of people anthropomorphise their cats - I've heard men saying that they wouldn't want their testicles to be cut off so they won't do it to their cat and I've heard people say that their cat 'deserves' to have one litter of kittens before they're spayed. Humans are human and Cats are cats - your cat won't feel better or complete or satisfied after she's had a litter, it's a biological instinct based on the presence of certain hormones - she won't love them like human parents love their children, she'll feed them, clean them and care for them because her instincts lead her to do this and when they're old enough she'll leave them to go off alone and she'll carry on without a thought. Your cat will be better off if she's spayed.

Also, cats tend not to need the company of other cats - They're solitary animals and the vast majority are happier just having all your attention to themselves. A lot of people struggle to integrate a new cat into a household as often the resident cat resents the presence of another animal vying for your attention and the resources of the house. Some do integrate well, but the vast majority merely tolerate the presence of another cat.

unless your cat is demonstrating some signs of loneliness or distress, I'd leave things as they are, get her neutered and just enjoy your lovely little lady as she is.


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

Erenya said:


> Well the poster does seem be open to accepting advice, which is good
> 
> I think a lot of people anthropomorphise their cats - I've heard men saying that they wouldn't want their testicles to be cut off so they won't do it to their cat and I've heard people say that their cat 'deserves' to have one litter of kittens before they're spayed. Humans are human and Cats are cats - your cat won't feel better or complete or satisfied after she's had a litter, it's a biological instinct based on the presence of certain hormones - she won't love them like human parents love their children, she'll feed them, clean them and care for them because her instincts lead her to do this and when they're old enough she'll leave them to go off alone and she'll carry on without a thought. Your cat will be better off if she's spayed.
> 
> ...


You've summed up our feelings perfectly. Trying to shift our emotions away from what she might be feeling. Thank you for your advice


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Aamenah Patel said:


> Hi guys,
> I'd just like to say thank you for all the love and support, it really has helped us through. This forum has been really wonderful. Our little cutie seems to be recovering, she's eating well and is responding to toys. Still being very clingy and over affectionate though.
> 
> (Please excuse my ignorance,) but if we wanted her to mate again, would we have to register her, and how?


Only the breeder can register a cat as active or change the registration and I would think under the circumstances it would be unlikely that a breeder would do so. Your best course of action would be to have your girl spayed and see if you can buy an active registered girl


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

huckybuck said:


> Well I personally wouldn't buy from a breeder who allows their queen to have more than one litter a year - IMO she is simply a breeding machine for the benefit of the breeder. Only MY opinion.
> 
> BTW don't the GCCF recommend no more that 3 litters in 2 years?


My opinion is that I should breed her as appropriate to her, not me, my needs (other than being sure I will have the time a litter needs) or some arbitrary set of rules. Since there is very little money in breeding (unless of the BYB type) I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that breeding more than you think should be done benefits the breeder.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Erenya said:


> I think a lot of people anthropomorphise their cats - I've heard men saying that they wouldn't want their testicles to be cut off so they won't do it to their cat and I've heard people say that their cat 'deserves' to have one litter of kittens before they're spayed. Humans are human and Cats are cats


Exactly. And not all humans 'want a litter'!



Erenya said:


> Also, cats tend not to need the company of other cats - They're solitary animals and the vast majority are happier just having all your attention to themselves.


Some cats absolutely adore the company of others - mine sleep with each other, have found all five squeezed into a basket that really didn't look big enough, but I've had cats that whilst they like some cats absolutely loathe others and were relentless bullies. Ultimately and very sadly for me the only way to deal with the bullies was to rehome. However the bullied cat was always much much happier, regardless if they were rehomed or the bully was.


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## Love2Help (Mar 12, 2017)

Sorry for your loss,
I would definitely get her spayed don't react too hard if she seems unsettled or confused. She will just not be accepting her kittens didn't survive the night.
Too much heartbreak in one day IMO.
Thinking of you,
Max
X


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

Love2Help said:


> Sorry for your loss,
> I would definitely get her spayed don't react too hard if she seems unsettled or confused. She will just not be accepting her kittens didn't survive the night.
> Too much heartbreak in one day IMO.
> Thinking of you,
> ...


❤Thank you


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## Aamenah Patel (Mar 22, 2017)

OrientalSlave said:


> Exactly. And not all humans 'want a litter'!
> 
> Some cats absolutely adore the company of others - mine sleep with each other, have found all five squeezed into a basket that really didn't look big enough, but I've had cats that whilst they like some cats absolutely loathe others and were relentless bullies. Ultimately and very sadly for me the only way to deal with the bullies was to rehome. However the bullied cat was always much much happier, regardless if they were rehomed or the bully was.


Thank you for your input, really appreciated


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

Erenya said:


> Well the poster does seem be open to accepting advice, which is good
> 
> I think a lot of people anthropomorphise their cats - I've heard men saying that they wouldn't want their testicles to be cut off so they won't do it to their cat and I've heard people say that their cat 'deserves' to have one litter of kittens before they're spayed. Humans are human and Cats are cats - your cat won't feel better or complete or satisfied after she's had a litter, it's a biological instinct based on the presence of certain hormones - she won't love them like human parents love their children, she'll feed them, clean them and care for them because her instincts lead her to do this and when they're old enough she'll leave them to go off alone and she'll carry on without a thought. Your cat will be better off if she's spayed.
> 
> ...


Excellent post, thank you, and I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm glad you're listening to advice, Aamenah. I understand your sentiment, as Min is a stunning cat and kittens are adorable, but your sentiment is misplaced. Putting your young cat through breeding again would be the wrong thing to do. I've never bred cats, as any cat we had has always been neutered, as I personally don't agree with it, due to the amount of unwanted cats in shelters. Also, female cats are much more settled when they're neutered, they are healthier and generally live longer. Once neutered, they do not crave male cat attention, nor do they yearn for kittens. Whilst many cats do enjoy other companion cats, many are more than happy alone with humans for company and slavery. I don't know if it's true or not, but I would suspect she is at high risk of all her kittens dying again, as it already has happened once. Even if they do survive, they will be eventually separated from her, and she would be upset again when departed from them, even if this instinct to find them would only happen for a few days*. *
Let Min enjoy her life, and enjoy her in your life.


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