# Junior Handling



## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

My 9 year old son is just about to start out at Open level jnr handling, he has done about 8 companion shows this year and has always been placed, he has won his class at the past 5 shows  He resently went on a Jnr handling workshop (what a fab day!!!) so he has learnt the patterns and golden rules...etc.......
Does anyone have any tips for me to pass to him??? my ringcraft doesn't really know much about jnr handling.

He is very confident and handles our Tibetan Terriers very well, but as I am him mum (and i'm new to showing) he dosen't really listen to me. I watched him practicing today and his corners on the T and L look slightly to rounded. (i'm going by the marina white book)

How often are children asked to do figures of 8?
Do judges ask questions to handlers about points of the dog..etc??
what kinda questions do judges normally ask?
How big should his T and L's be?


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

The most important things are watch the judge all the time (but watch your dog at the same time!), and talk to your dog. The size of the patterns depends on the size of the ring, try and use as much of the ring as possible (unless it's a very big ring). Most judges will ask you to show the dogs teeth, remember to not get in the way of the judge seeing them.
When starting to move your dog, line up in front of the judge and go in the direction they are looking/standing, and it's the dog that should be running away/to the judge not the handler!
Don't get in a fluster, if the dog isn't behaving stay calm and take your time, remember you are being judged on presenting your dog the best you can. A good handler will 'disappear' and make you want to look at the dog.

figures of 8 are quite rare now i think.


Just noticed your in kent, so might see you at some shows


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

My nieces have both been Junior Handling at Championship shows since they were six, so we've clocked up quite a bit of experience along the way! Marina's book is excellent, and if your son follows the advice in there you won't go far wrong.

Junior Handling judges tend to fall into two categories - judges who know about handling (and are often ex junior handlers themselves) and judges who know nothing about handling and end up judging the dog. The latter are hopeless; all your son can do is show the dog. The former are a little more exacting, with (not surprisingly) the ex junior handlers being the most exacting. If you let me know which shows he will be attending, and who the judges are, I'll let you know which categories they fall into.

You and your son will know all I am about to say (because I'm sure most of it is in Marina's book) but these are the main things a "proper" handling judge always looks for:

1. A neat appearance of the handler - for boys this usually means a suit
2. Listen to what the judge asks you to do - some judges ask different handlers to do different patterns, some ask all handlers to do the same patterns
3. Always leave plenty of space between your dog and the one in front
4. When standing your dog in the line up with the rest of the dogs, always make sure your dog is level with the dog in front - ie not further forward or further back.
5. Keep and eye on the judge and move around the dog as the judge moves, so that the dog is always between you and the judge (this applies to whether you are standing the dog or moving the dog)
6. When moving, make sure your lines of T's, L's, triangles, straight up and downs etc are straight.
7. When other dogs are being judged, relax your dog (ie don't keep him in a show stand)
8. Make sure corners of T's, L's and triangles are not rounded
9. If the judge moves while you are moving your dog (and many do), on the return run go back to the original place where the judge was standing to finish your movement, then move to where the judge is actually standing. (Making sure to keep your dog between you and the judge at all times)
10. When standing your dog in front of the judge, don't stand too close to the judge.
11. If the judge asks to see the teeth, show the bite, and then the teeth at each side. If the judge asks to see the bite, just show the bite.


Practice reverse Ts, L's and triangles - a lot of judges ask for these

Don't worry about the figure 8 - I've never seen a judge ask for it yet!

The size of T's and L's - for L's you should go down the length of the ring, then turn into the short arm and that should be about a third of the length you've already done. For T's, the arm on top of the T should be that same distance on both sides.

Judges usually ask questions about the different points of the dog - eg where is the stop, or the occiput, etc etc. Another fave question is how many teeth an adult dog should have.

Some tips we have picked up along the way:
Don't go first - you can then get an idea of what the judge wants
Don't go last - you only have a little time to set up your dog for the final look-over after moving back to your place
if your son is nervous, get him to suck a mint before he goes in the ring - this stops the dog picking up on his nervousness
Make sure your son has a pooh bag in his pocket
Don't talk to him once he's in the ring in case the judge thinks you are giving him tips
Look out for YKC training days and training camps - the training there is superb, and often given by people who are actually judges

Hope all this helps - do ask away if you have any other questions!

Good luck to your son and I hope he enjoys his handling as much as my nieces have :thumbup:


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

Tollisty said:


> The most important things are watch the judge all the time (but watch your dog at the same time!), and talk to your dog. The size of the patterns depends on the size of the ring, try and use as much of the ring as possible (unless it's a very big ring). Most judges will ask you to show the dogs teeth, remember to not get in the way of the judge seeing them.
> When starting to move your dog, line up in front of the judge and go in the direction they are looking/standing, and it's the dog that should be running away/to the judge not the handler!
> Don't get in a fluster, if the dog isn't behaving stay calm and take your time, remember you are being judged on presenting your dog the best you can. A good handler will 'disappear' and make you want to look at the dog.
> 
> ...


Thankyou  i'm near Maidstone so do most open shows at lockmedow and ardingly...he always stays calm, it me who gets nervous :lol: any idea of any ring craft in Kent that can give him some extra training?


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> My nieces have both been Junior Handling at Championship shows since they were six, so we've clocked up quite a bit of experience along the way! Marina's book is excellent, and if your son follows the advice in there you won't go far wrong.
> 
> Junior Handling judges tend to fall into two categories - judges who know about handling (and are often ex junior handlers themselves) and judges who know nothing about handling and end up judging the dog. The latter are hopeless; all your son can do is show the dog. The former are a little more exacting, with (not surprisingly) the ex junior handlers being the most exacting. If you let me know which shows he will be attending, and who the judges are, I'll let you know which categories they fall into.
> 
> ...


Thankyou very much, Marina's book is his bedtime reading at the moment
his judge this sunday is Sue Tubb (Alsutu) and the week after his judge is Miss V E M Endean

42 teeth...right??? lol.....
I'm going to have to read up on points of the dog to teach him 
Problem is, he's quite behind on his reading at school (bless him) so I have to read everything to him.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

have you tried Detling ringcraft?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lucylewis0 said:


> Thankyou very much, Marina's book is his bedtime reading at the moment
> his judge this sunday is Sue Tubb (Alsutu) and the week after his judge is Miss V E M Endean
> 
> 42 teeth...right??? lol.....
> ...


Sue Tubb is a good handling judge and is especially good with the younger handlers and beginners. She is very keen on neat, exact patterns - she often asks for reverse T's, reverse L's and reverse triangles. The other thing she likes to do is to move handlers in pairs, so get your son to read up on this section in Marina's book because it can be a little complicated on which way you move (depends upon which side you are on). I don't know anything about the other judge, sorry. 

I can't remember whether or not Marina has a diagram about the points of a dog in her book - if not, you can see them here Points of the Dog


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

dexter said:


> have you tried Detling ringcraft?


I go to Detling and they are lovely and helpful but it gets so busy so there wouldn't be enough time to go though patterns, etc....


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

Are you at Horley? I will try and watch the handling if you are 

When I judged handling, I confused everyone because I asked each handler to do a different pattern  . In the older class, when everyone had been seen, instead of going in order I randomly picked them out and asked them to move the dog again and each had a different pattern to do. That really confused them :lol: made them watch me though :lol:


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

Lucylewis0 said:


> I go to Detling and they are lovely and helpful but it gets so busy so there wouldn't be enough time to go though patterns, etc....


How about woolwich and bexley held at wilmington? Doesn't get too crowded, and enough space to do patterns. They also do alot of watching the judge and moving and swapping sides.


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> Sue Tubb is a good handling judge and is especially good with the younger handlers and beginners. She is very keen on neat, exact patterns - she often asks for reverse T's, reverse L's and reverse triangles. The other thing she likes to do is to move handlers in pairs, so get your son to read up on this section in Marina's book because it can be a little complicated on which way you move (depends upon which side you are on). I don't know anything about the other judge, sorry.
> 
> I can't remember whether or not Marina has a diagram about the points of a dog in her book - if not, you can see them here Points of the Dog


Arrr............ Reverse is ok....we just had a practise indoors, LOL... but working in PAIRS  Just looked at the diagrams.......hmmmm lewis looks very confused......

Yes there is a dog diagram in the book! stop and occiput are the favs???is that right?


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

Tollisty said:


> Are you at Horley? I will try and watch the handling if you are
> 
> When I judged handling, I confused everyone because I asked each handler to do a different pattern  . In the older class, when everyone had been seen, instead of going in order I randomly picked them out and asked them to move the dog again and each had a different pattern to do. That really confused them :lol: made them watch me though :lol:


Yes we are at Horley.....

Hmmm..... i reckon going open level is going to be 100 times harder for him than companion shows :scared:


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## Tollisty (May 27, 2008)

No, I was just mean :lol: I had big classes, 12 in the older class  and all but a couple of them knew what they were doing! It was a very tough class. so I had to separate them somehow!


Have you seen my companion show on 19th september held in central park, Dartford? It has a junior handling class, and the judge knows what he is doing


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

:thumbup:


Tollisty said:


> No, I was just mean :lol: I had big classes, 12 in the older class  and all but a couple of them knew what they were doing! It was a very tough class. so I had to separate them somehow!
> 
> Have you seen my companion show on 19th september held in central park, Dartford? It has a junior handling class, and the judge knows what he is doing


:lol:.......... I reckon Lewis will take it all in stride and it will be me feeling sick with nerves:lol:

Yes we will be at your companion show for defo :thumbup: I was suppost to be going to Eastbourne show but I noticed today that I missed the deadline. So we will be there for sure!!! x


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lucylewis0 said:


> Arrr............ Reverse is ok....we just had a practise indoors, LOL... but working in PAIRS  Just looked at the diagrams.......hmmmm lewis looks very confused......
> 
> Yes there is a dog diagram in the book! stop and occiput are the favs???is that right?


The diagram for working in pairs will make much more sense if you can actually see someone doing it - perhaps at the show you could ask a couple of the handlers in one of the higher classes to demonstrate for your son before the classes start?

Stop and occiput are the points which the girls seem to be asked about most - stifle, hock, tuckup and brisket are close follow ups.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Just found this critique by Sue Tubb on some handling judging she did - thought you might be interested. 

Welsh SSC


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> The diagram for working in pairs will make much more sense if you can actually see someone doing it - perhaps at the show you could ask a couple of the handlers in one of the higher classes to demonstrate for your son before the classes start?
> 
> Stop and occiput are the points which the girls seem to be asked about most - stifle, hock, tuckup and brisket are close follow ups.


Ooooohhh.....tuckup???? thats not in the book.... where's the tuckup???


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lucylewis0 said:


> Ooooohhh.....tuckup???? thats not in the book.... where's the tuckup???


heh heh - have a look on the link I posted - its near where the body gets thinner as it goes towards the groin


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Sue is a very lovely person, dont think she overtaxes the younger ones, my girls only ask for a triangle and a straight up and down, you can normally sort the younger age group on that and the presentation of the dog and showing of the teeth. No doubt he will have covered that well on the course with Marina and Helena :thumbup:

Good luck Lewis - and a smile and a thankyou go a long long way


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

tashi said:


> Sue is a very lovely person, dont think she overtaxes the younger ones, my girls only ask for a triangle and a straight up and down, you can normally sort the younger age group on that and the presentation of the dog and showing of the teeth. No doubt he will have covered that well on the course with Marina and Helena :thumbup:
> 
> Good luck Lewis - and a smile and a thankyou go a long long way


 Thankyou....


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

have yopu tried Barming ringcraft L?


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

dexter said:


> have yopu tried Barming ringcraft L?


:lol: Yep, I go to Barming on a Thursday and Detling on Fridays...... 
Barming is less busy than Detling, but Barming hasn't had children handling there for about 10 years. So i guess we will just have to pratice in our cul-de-sac. I i'll have to learn how to teach him  x


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Lucylewis0 said:


> :lol: Yep, I go to Barming on a Thursday and Detling on Fridays......
> Barming is less busy than Detling, but Barming hasn't had children handling there for about 10 years. So i guess we will just have to pratice in our cul-de-sac. I i'll have to learn how to teach him  x


looks like you will lol xx


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

are you at Maidstone on Sunday?


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

dexter said:


> are you at Maidstone on Sunday?


Yep Yep  Are you there? x


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

yes, not showing stewarding for a young friend. x


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

dexter said:


> yes, not showing stewarding for a young friend. x


Ooohh..... i'll see you there on Sunday


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

i'm stewarding roughs and shelties x come say hi x


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