# Are Habitrail and Rotastak really all that evil?



## Lady Sol

I posted this in Daisymoo's thread but it seemed a bit off topic and wafflish in there so I thought it'd be better in it's own thread.

I hear loads of negative comments on these two brands on lots of hamster forums. I do sometimes think lots of people have never seen the cages in question and have just heard negative reviews or have seen one tiny set-up with no extensions and judges all set-ups against that one. Are they really all that evil, or is there a lot of misinformation?

Personally I love Habitrail, for single robos I don't think it can be beaten. They have lovely enclosed wheels the correct size (Habitrail mini fly wheels) and the mushroom drinking oasis so they don't have to reach up and use big waterbottles. You can extend them and rearrange them to add interest and space for your hamster. The locking rings are a brilliant invention and used correctly the cages are very surdy and escape proof. Every section opens to get to your hamster to add toys or food. Need to go to the vets, just twist of a cage section and off you go. I'm trialling a Habitrail/Crittertrail set-up with a syrian over the next few weeks.

A basic Habitrail set up wouldn't be any good for a syrian (or even a dwarf) as there isn't enough floor space, but they do extend wonderfully. There is absolutely no reason you can't set one up with the cage floor space of a multistorey Imac Fantasy, but they do take up more of your living room floor or surface space because they don't stack or but up to each other easily. Connect enough sections together though (eg 6+ pods) and you are left with loads of space for toys and running around (though no money left in the bank). You can buy 9inch Habitrail wheels that attach to any Habitrail cage. They have far more air holes than rotastak.

Rotastak I don't really like, but it's ideal for chinese hamsters which is why I got a job lot second hand. It has far less ventilation, harder to put together (though it stacks easier), requires costly purchases of anti-gnaw rings and ladders etc. And even second hand it's expensive. Most of the units sold are far too small to keep hamsters in too. And the only wheels big enough for syrians have to be fitted externally. However actually having some and using it I don't see that it quite deserves it's bad reputation. Sugar and Spice give it the paws up anyway.

I'm not trying to say that everyone should go purchase one or recommend them to everyone. I just don't see that they are worse the the other major hamster cage manufacturers. Also all the negative comments I get from people saying Acorn's cage must be too small before the see it don't help.
I have several Imac Fantasies (personally recommend these for syrians), Savic cages, Crittertrail cages, Ferplast cages, Fantasia cages, SAM, horrible Tesco cages (good for vet transport) and bin cages, even a Dora the explorer cage (Merlin came home in one so he wouldn't chew through the cardboard box in the car!). Many of them linked together, apart from the Imac Fantasies, most of my hamsters have more than one cage to run around in. My Habitrail and rotastak places just add to Hamstertropolis in my living room :lol:

Below are the comments I see the most often, but I'm sure I'm forgetting some.



> i'm sorry but i always thought rotastack or habitrail/crittertrail cages were no good for syrian hamsters as the tubes are too small


Habitrail tubes are no smaller than Ferplast tubes, Savic tubes, Imac Fantasy tubes, Fantasia tubes, SAM tubes and countless others. All of my syrians, even the biggest can turn completely around in them. All but the very oldest ranges have air holes in the windows of the tubes and ridges to help the hamster climb down.

Rotastak tubes are marginally (about 1 mm) smaller in diameter however few of them come with air holes and they have no ridges. Also they have right angles not elbow bends that are harder to navigate.



> in general poor design so u can't access your hamster esp if its scared as there are too many tubes for it to bolt away.


Actually I'll agree with you on this for Rotastak, to get my russians out I've given up and take the cage to bits! Habitrail is easy-ish for hamster removal, every section has a removable lid which is actually big eough to reach into.



> Dwarf hamsters cant manage the tubes


Dwarf hamsters can manage Hamitrail and rotastak tubes horizontally and at an angle of up to about 50 degrees. Robo hamsters can climb Habitrail mini tubes vertically and have no problem with elbows. I assume chinese hamsters would have no problem with Habitrail mini tubes though I often wondered if larger russians can fit though (never tried it). Rotastak tubes can be adapted with Rotastak ladders for vertical climbing, all dwarf breeds can use these, though my robos do fall down them sometimes rather than climbing down in a dignified manner. Though I have one rotastak curvy tube my dwarfs cannot manage.Other tube manufacturers are very hard to use vertically with dwarfs as the ladders are hard to fit with elbowed tubes (can be done though).



> The wheels aren't big enough for a syrian.


The standard Habitrail Ovo wheel is 7.5 inches, bigger than a lot that come with normal cages, though short of the 8 inches recommended for syrians. Habitrail do a 9 inch external wheel. (This can also be attached to Rotastak units with Crittertrail connectors).



> The Habitrail Ovo drinking bottle is torture, the poor hamster has to lay on it's back


I heard this one a lot, none of mine have this problem, though I personally can't see the point of the Ovo waterbottle design. The wire cages it's not problem as they can have normal water bottles.



> They fall to bits, the hamster pushed the connector out


Learn to build to cage properly, use the locking rings (Habitrail) or wire clips (Rotastak) correctly. I'm not saying they can't fall to bits, but I've never had a problem.



> They are hard to clean


Umm, time consuming and fiddily admitedly compared with Savic and Imac cages.



> Your hamster will suffocate or drown in condensation.


Not in a modern Habitrail it won't. Some of the much older units (years and years ago) have smaller air holes. I guess if a syrian squeezed itself into a attic or loft bedroom with a ton of bedding it would be uncomfortable, but I'd say the same for any small plastic house.

My hamsters have been fine in their Rotastak, though most tubes have no air holes so you do need to keep them short and the kidney units have tiny airholes (mine really don't seem bothered).



> If you keep more than one hamster in them then they will fight over sections.


They do this is cages with levels too, or if they don't have enough wheels, or water bottles, or just because. I wouldn't recommend them for groups, but they're fine for one hamster on it's own. (having said that Sugar and Spice get on fine in there's at the moment).



> They only use one section, all the extra units don't really add floor space


Depends how big they are and what you put in them. Too many extra tiny dens, attics, lofts and towers are pretty pointless. My hamsters use all their big sections as long as there is a reason to do so - wheel, food, favourite toy, etc.

*So are they really that evil, or just expensive and misunderstood?*


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## Emmiiee

I have habitrail for my dwarfs! and wouldnt have it any other way!!!!, i love rotostak, its more nateral as in the wild they have tunnels and tubes etc!! im all for rotostack and habitrail always have always will!!


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## Hols<3Millie

i had a rotastak for my two dwarfs, unfortuantly they did start fighting but theres always a chance when you keep two hammies together. They are also right bu**ers to clean and put back together. 
Unfortuantly i do believe the wheel is too small for syrians - if their back rubs on the pole in the middle it can cause deformaties if they're always on it. I haven't put my syrian in one since i think he would be too big although i know he would love it if the wheel was bigger (wheel is my only problem)  x


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## dee o gee

My problem with these cages is if someone bought just one and didn't bother connecting up a few together, for example if someone thought that the ovo was a suitably sized home for a hamster, but I guess there are some absolutely awful wire cages available too and there will always be idiots. 
Personally I wouldn't use them because they are too expensive and a pain in the arse to clean. 

To add to the list of questions/comments!  Would you not be worried about a syrian chewing through the plastic? :confused1: A dwarf hasn't got the same chewing power but Iv seen what a determined syrian can do! :scared:


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## Jazzy

I kept my Chinese hamster in a rotastak cage and she loved it. It was quite tall and had quite a few extensions. My Roborovski has got an habitrail loft with a maze extension on and he seems happy enough. I can't see that these cages are any worse than any other cage really as long as you get the extensions. I have also had the habitrail mini cages and connected two together for a roborovski and it was fine and the hamster seemed happy - still got two in the shed I think. :laugh:


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## blade100

i see from a few comments that the people who own the rotastack/habi/crittertrail cages that there for there dwarf hamsters.

but i still think i'd rather see a syrian in a hamster heaven,savic cambridge,imac fantasy,zoozone/gabber rex cages.

and on madabouthamsters.com u can be sure that the hamster breeders and owners on there myself included don't use the rotastack,crittertrail cages.

but its up to personal opinoin what they choose for there syrian to live in.


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## Amy&Ted

My hamster, Mack, has a Habitrail Ovo loft. He is a syrian but he's not a big fatty as i don't fill him full of treats. It is perfectly big enough for him and he spends most of his time in his bed or pootling round on his wheel anyway.

I would say out of the 10 hamster cages i have had over the years... this one is by far the best. The only draw back i think is the water system. I don't like the bottle and don't like that he has to drink upside down although he doesn't seem fussed that he has to?

I didn't extend mine because it's already pretty massive. Has a lovely mesh lid and each side has a lifting side so you can get into the food bowl.


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## BattleKat

I have gerbils, but I really love my rotastak. 
I don't think it's too much of a pain to clean, because it doesn't all need cleaning twice a week - only the toilet areas then the rest get a full wash and disinfect every so often.
I find it fun to put together and think of new things, rather than a pain in the bum.
The cage itself becomes interesting to the animals, a rearrange every so often will keep them busy for ages.
The anti gnaw rings protect things from being chewed so you shouldn't have to replace anything.
My current set up allows full access in each area, but I don't find it a major problem when there isn't because they tend to come up to the food area with the front door when I'm near the cage.

I did have a habitrail ovo for a short time, but it was the absolute pits imo. Took up so much more room than the animals got, not really stackable, everything was chewable, the bases of the large units obscured your view of the animals and there were a few other niggly things that I can't remember.
That said, other habitrail stuff looks fab to me, I've just never tried it.

Here are a few pics


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## srhdufe

I get what you are saying about the cages

I personally am one who doesnt like them.. I got one with a syrian in that i once rescued. All ht had was a starter cage, which he had lived in for a few years 

He came to me and i immediately put him in a big rat cage (which he loved)

The reason i didnt like the rotastak, is because it was tiny (yes i know it can be added to)
It was a pain in the backside to take apart and clean and the wheel was tiny (even for a russian imo)

However... I love the look of the pink rotastaks you can get. I would love one, but they are way too expensive and the dwarfs i have wouldnt be able to manage the tubes

Never tried a habitrail cage, so i cant comment


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## Jazzy

blade100 said:


> i see from a few comments that the people who own the rotastack/habi/crittertrail cages that there for there dwarf hamsters.
> 
> but i still think i'd rather see a syrian in a hamster heaven,savic cambridge,imac fantasy,zoozone/gabber rex cages.
> 
> and on madabouthamsters.com u can be sure that the hamster breeders and owners on there myself included don't use the rotastack,crittertrail cages.
> 
> but its up to personal opinoin what they choose for there syrian to live in.


Yes I agree, they are only suitable for dwarf hamsters really. My two Syrians have an hamster heaven each.


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## Daisymoo

I am reposting my photo of Phoebe in her Rotastak Creepy Castle as I am very confused as to how people can say it is too small for a syrian hamster!!!! she has got loads of room with different compartments to explore and alot more stimulation for her then in her old cage. I was really worried about her in her old cage as all she seemed to want to do was to gnaw at the lid of her cage frantically trying to get it open she hardly went in her wheel at all she was just obsessed with trying to get out of her cage, now in her Creepy Castle she is so much more relaxed and seems to be a much happier hamster and that can only be a good thing can't it??


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## noushka05

really hope i dont offend anyone here but i hate them that is unless theyre connected to a cage/bin or tank which gives the hammy a decent amount of floor space, i just think hamsters look so claustrophobic in the tiny pods and tubes...sorry


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## Daisymoo

I give up!!! Phoebe loves her Creepy Castle and my friend who kindly gave me the cage for free said her hamster loved it too and that's all that matters to me !!


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## noushka05

Daisymoo said:


> I give up!!! Phoebe loves her Creepy Castle and my friend who kindly gave me the cage for free said her hamster loved it too and that's all that matters to me !!


and youre entitled to your own opinion like im entitled to mine!


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## niki87

I have to say the horror stories of hamster getting stuck in the tubes would have put me off getting one for a Syrian. But I know Daisymoo has had escapee attempts from Phoebe in iwre cages...yet now that has stopped and she seems very happy so that is the important thing. Phoebe gets outside time too and that is important. 

The problem with it is for first time hamster owners...they hear the brand name, see a basic but attractive set up for £30 and get it. I recently adopted a mum and 4....4!!!!!!!!!!!!!....babies in a basic pad with nesting pod and this was presumed fine. And seeing Syrians in this set up angers me. But if extended enough with a few bigger extension pads then it has obviously cured one hamster's bid for freedom! Slightly more converted than I was seeing Daisymoo's and Ladysol's! xx


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## noushka05

niki87 said:


> I have to say the horror stories of hamster getting stuck in the tubes would have put me off getting one for a Syrian. But I know Daisymoo has had escapee attempts from Phoebe in iwre cages...yet now that has stopped and she seems very happy so that is the important thing. Phoebe gets outside time too and that is important.
> 
> The problem with it is for first time hamster owners...they hear the brand name, see a basic but attractive set up for £30 and get it. I recently adopted a mum and 4....4!!!!!!!!!!!!!....babies in a basic pad with nesting pod and this was presumed fine. And seeing Syrians in this set up angers me. But if extended enough with a few bigger extension pads then it has obviously cured one hamster's bid for freedom! Slightly more converted than I was seeing Daisymoo's and Ladysol's! xx


hiya Niki its not just the tubes its the design of them as a whole that i hate, imo theyre just design to be visually attractive to appeal to children with little consideration for the animals who have to spend the majority of their lives cooped up in them, that dosent mean that i think all wire cages are better because the majority of them are rubbish aswell, and just because Daisymoo's hammy hasnt escaped from her new rotostak dosent mean she wouldnt given the opportunity because like all hamsters she would given the chance

as i said in my previous post if rotostak and habitrail's are attached to something else with more floor space then i think they are fine, i was just shocked that i was jumped on by Daisymoo for having a differing view after all the op had asked for opinions and i gave mine in a respectful manner.


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## Daisymoo

I would just like to say to noushka that I didn't "jump on you" as you put it I wasn't responding to you personally that's why I didn't quote you I was responding in general as I have tried to put my point across but no one is listening apart from Niki that the happiness of Phoebe is the most important thing.


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## noushka05

Daisymoo said:


> I would just like to say to noushka that I didn't "jump on you" as you put it I wasn't responding to you personally that's why I didn't quote you I was responding in general as I have tried to put my point across but no one is listening apart from Niki that the happiness of Phoebe is the most important thing.


oh okay my mistake sorry.... it just seemed to be directed at me as i was the only one who had posted straight after you.


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## niki87

noushka05 said:


> hiya Niki its not just the tubes its the design of them as a whole that i hate, imo *theyre just design to be visually attractive to appeal to children *with little consideration for the animals who have to spend the majority of their lives cooped up in them, that dosent mean that i think all wire cages are better because the majority of them are rubbish aswell, and just because *Daisymoo's hammy hasnt escaped from her new rotostak dosent mean she wouldnt given the opportunity because like all hamsters she would given the chance*


Hi!!!!!!!!!! 

1. Totally agree...they are designed for children and are not advised about well enough. When my sister got her hamster she wanted pink...so I went online and saw one called pink palace so I got that for her off ebay. But it included the basic pad, nesting pod and travel case....how can that be sold for ANY hamster!!!  Unfortunately hammy escaped within 3 days so was not used.

2. :lol: Also agree....a persistent hamster will escape if they want. But from what Daisymoo has said she actually seems to have stopped! Which imo is brilliant and if it works for Phoebe then great. I certainly couldn't consider it for my Roma who is a chubby girl :thumbup:



Daisymoo said:


> I would just like to say to noushka that I didn't "jump on you" as you put it I wasn't responding to you personally that's why I didn't quote you I was responding in general as I have tried to put my point across but no one is listening apart from Niki that the happiness of Phoebe is the most important thing.


:aureola: does that make me your fwend hehe:thumbup:

No I agree...as I said if it's solved Phoebe's prob so far then great. :thumbup:

xx


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## Daisymoo

noushka05 said:


> oh okay my mistake sorry.... it just seemed to be directed at me as i was the only one who had posted straight after you.


That's ok sorry if it came across that way I didn't mean to get at you. I can understand if people have had a bad experience with one of these cages themselves but it seems that some people just have negative things to say without ever actually seeing a hamster in one of them. Now let's all be friends


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## Daisymoo

niki87 said:


> :aureola: does that make me your fwend hehe:thumbup:
> 
> xx


We were already weren't we :thumbup:


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## niki87

I know I was being childish! xx


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## Lady Sol

Thanks for the opinions guys 

As I said earlier I'm not trying to get everyone to buy or recommend these brands. I just get confused and annoyed sometimes with the comments I see posted at the mere mention of the words Habitrail and Rotastak, not necessarily just on here, but on a variety of sites. I couldn't work out where some of the negativity was coming from.


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## niki87

Well I love ALL your set ups so you certainly have nothing to worry about  xx


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## noushka05

Daisymoo said:


> That's ok sorry if it came across that way I didn't mean to get at you. I can understand if people have had a bad experience with one of these cages themselves but it seems that some people just have negative things to say without ever actually seeing a hamster in one of them. Now let's all be friends


no problem sorry if i took it the wrong way im glad we're all friends now:thumbup:


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## gemz29

hello, sorry im not sure if anyone still reads this thread but Im really happy I found it! I just got a Rotastak and have heard so many terrible reviews but I used to have one for my old syrian and even though he was a big boy he seemed perfectily happy and had plenty of space, managed to tubes no problem and never seemed to have any ventilation problems. However due to all the bad reviews I was getting myself very worried. I was thinking after all, in the wild the hamsters bury and go through tiny tubes that can be smaller than the ones in these cages. I mean ill still keep an eye on him or course but alot of these posts have helped me feel better about my choice to keep using this cage. I can see why people would get upset over the small setups but I think that is bad ownership rather than bad cage design. The pictures and descriptions of the ones on here looks/sound amazing! I am so glad to hear some postive reviews, I guess more people like complaining than complimenting! 
Anyway glad to be part of the forum and if anyone has any tips on how to improve the Rotastak cages etc for increased ventilation etc feel free to let me know. (also sorry for the rant hehe)


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## happysaz133

The worst thing about Rotastak is you cannot add a Syrian sized wheel, without adding a different brand of cage or a plastic bin cage. It's just not possible anywhere in Rotastak to add at least an 8inch wheel for the smallest Syrian, never mind a 12 inch if you get a large Syrian.

Secondly, yes, in the wild hamsters do burrow in tunnels, however they also spend a lot of time running above ground, which Rotastak (and other modular cages) simply do not allow.

I'd smash them all up if I had my way, but sadly, I don't :mad2:


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## elmthesofties

Sorry for linking to another website and the like, but I feel that this page explains how I feel about rotastak and other cages perfectly:
crittery.co.uk - Why modular systems are bad for your pet

I used to keep my hamsters in rotastak, and oh my goodness they performed SO many abnormal behaviours. (even though their cages were probably bigger than all of the cages listed so far, and they were handled every single day for at least an hour and a half) Obsessive digging, obsessive chewing, etc... I moved them to the tanks which were probably slightly smaller, and the behaviours stopped almost comletely. I still kept the tubes and small beds in the cages because it offered them a tunnel network, which they loved, and I still like offering them that kind of cage today.

Maybe I'm completely alone in this, but the abnormal behaviours were a huge problem for me. They woke up, chewed the bars of their cage, tried to dig at the plastic, repeated the last two for hours, and went to sleep again. Maybe it wasn't the rotastak that was the problem, and maybe it doesn't offer those problems for other people, but it did for me.


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## gemz29

Yeah I can see what your saying, problem with the chewing thing I found that when hamsters are in cages with metal bars they chew at the bars so much they hurt their faces cos they are pushing at the same time and they end up with lines down the side of the cute little faces, I found before that if they have plenty if other things to chew they dont do that as much. Basically will just see how it goes with this cage and if I have any problems ill just have to try selling it on and get something else. Fingers crossed the hamster will be happy, and he will definetly be spending plenty of time out side the cage anyway


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## happysaz133

gemz29 said:


> Yeah I can see what your saying, problem with the chewing thing I found that when hamsters are in cages with metal bars they chew at the bars so much they hurt their faces cos they are pushing at the same time and they end up with lines down the side of the cute little faces, I found before that if they have plenty if other things to chew they dont do that as much. Basically will just see how it goes with this cage and if I have any problems ill just have to try selling it on and get something else. Fingers crossed the hamster will be happy, and he will definetly be spending plenty of time out side the cage anyway


Not all hamsters do, and those that do, are often bored. Buying a decent sized hamster cage and making sure the ham gets plenty time out can usually stop it.


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## whitefairy

Hi.

I buy two habitrail cages for my dwarf hamster.

An Habitrail ovo loft and and Habitrail ovo suite. 
The cage looks so beautiful to me :001_tongue:

Ovo loft:
The female in the ovo loft are calm, relaxed and happy but the loft are larger than ovo suite.

Ovo suite:
The male in the ovo suite can't go up the tubes :nono:
I put him up but he slid down the tube :nonod:
So I put the ovo suite in the horizontal and that's ok for him.
After few days I noticed him trying to dig into the plastic. 
I figured that was too small for him. 
So I put the ovo suite over a large plastic box with the pipes that ran down. I put some toys in the box and he can go up and down and now completely stopped dig in the plastic :w00t:

Here's the photos:

*OVO LOFT*



*OVO SUITE MODIFICATED*


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## Dudalous

This makes me very sad designed for children hmm. . . yeah ok its pretty colors lets jump on that to mis inform people! omg you call your selves owners of hamsters ok lets go

normal cage/recommended - 
1. hamster escaped very easy
2. chewed bars instead of toys
3. no real space for actual activity(dont kid yourself)
4. not designed to upgrade
5. always advised for separate sections for play(eg balls/ runs)

now i had habitrail LOVED IT!!

why??

Habitrail/ EVIL CAGE!! - 
1. hamster never tried to escape
2. never chewed the bars(it has none numbnuts!!)
3. can have enough floor space if you care to spend as it actually is cheap its called shopping around!! also exercise can come from the climbing you run around straight for half hour then try do the same climbing a mountain lets see how long you last!
4. well by what im doing i guess you know what will go here i saw cages 70 quid i got 2 ovo areas for that!!a suite and a loft!
5. no need for separate play areas!! as all included.
now i am looking again for habitrail sets and thought oh ill see how others like them and was appalled! i had the ovo suite and other bits what at least 7 years ago must be and never had the issues as with the recommended cage so instead of telling people not to go for certain cages as you arent experts and all cages can have faults teach people to love respect and take PROPER care for their hamster to not have the problems you all seem to have . . . oh wait i just realized im talking to the wrong people!


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## blade100

Dudalous said:


> This makes me very sad designed for children hmm. . . yeah ok its pretty colors lets jump on that to mis inform people! omg you call your selves owners of hamsters ok lets go
> 
> normal cage/recommended -
> 1. hamster escaped very easy
> 2. chewed bars instead of toys
> 3. no real space for actual activity(dont kid yourself)
> 4. not designed to upgrade
> 5. always advised for separate sections for play(eg balls/ runs)
> 
> now i had habitrail LOVED IT!!
> 
> why??
> 
> Habitrail/ EVIL CAGE!! -
> 1. hamster never tried to escape
> 2. never chewed the bars(it has none numbnuts!!)
> 3. can have enough floor space if you care to spend as it actually is cheap its called shopping around!! also exercise can come from the climbing you run around straight for half hour then try do the same climbing a mountain lets see how long you last!
> 4. well by what im doing i guess you know what will go here i saw cages 70 quid i got 2 ovo areas for that!!a suite and a loft!
> 5. no need for separate play areas!! as all included.
> now i am looking again for habitrail sets and thought oh ill see how others like them and was appalled! i had the ovo suite and other bits what at least 7 years ago must be and never had the issues as with the recommended cage so instead of telling people not to go for certain cages as you arent experts and all cages can have faults teach people to love respect and take PROPER care for their hamster to not have the problems you all seem to have . . . oh wait i just realized im talking to the wrong people!


^ seriously???? 
What utter shite.

The RSPCA recommend a cage for a Syrian to he of 80cm long x 50cm wide!
Syrian hamster require a lot of floor space. 
You can buy barred cages or plastic type tank cages of this size!
You obviously haven't a clue on the welfare of the requirements of hamsters!
How are you ment to fit in a decent sized wheel in those awful cages you mentioned??? Often wheels that come with shite cages are too small causing hamsters to curve there backs whilst trying to exercise. 
My last Syrian hamster lived in a hamster heaven cage that I got second hand for £30. I bought her a 11 inch wodent exercise wheel with tons of toys etc and not once did she chew the bars.

Honestly go back and do your research


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## blade100

This was my lady hamsters cage


And then you say that this is better


Seriously?? You wouldn't be able to nearly half the stuff I had in my cage in that ovo cage. Let alone a decent wheel.


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## Lil Miss

this threads over a year old.....


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## Dudalous

Firstly i never said get one alone so do your reading!!! instead of trying to bash, second where is the floor space oh yea covered with crap so where is it going to run?? you have just stuck loads of stuff in a small cage and if you read properly the point of my post is not every hamster is the same and you can have the best cage in the world but if you dont look after your pet properly it wont matter!!! so learn to do your research. if someone wants to buy the ovo system then they will not buy one piece which is the point i had a cage very much like what you show my hamster escaped and chewed the bars to pieces so explain when it has chew toys and such how that can be??? i had to buy an extra ball so it could have room to run as the floor space when covered in crap becomes minute! in the habitrail the loft is actually quite big alone the put the fact its connected to the suite with all the tubes and it quite big floor space and also its all BRAND NEW NOT SECOND HAND!!! also you can buy separate wheels for ovo like the trainer from ovo which is an outside wheel that is bigger then the inside wheel so again how is your cage better?? when i had oneof the cages i had problems, had the habitrail and i had none??!!! well???? mr im so clever knowing everything???


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## Dudalous

also and be honest have you ever actually owned one?? not just talking crap oh look at me i love hamsters. because if you havent you have no space to talk i have owned both which to me is doing your research i have seen both in action had a hamster live a long enjoyable life in the ovo system what have you done . . listen to others which also probably not used the system itself just looked and thought im not paying mmoney for that when this cage will do!!! then got on their high horse 'yes well im doing it for my hamster!!' when infact they didnt shop around saw high price and thought bugger that !!! teach others how to look after hamsters stop neh saying to perfectly good cages for pets when in fact you DONT KNOW! also really your gunna put a big picture next to a tiny one and try say thats the size comparison also when you have zoomed in sooo much omg learn to actually argue as you look pathetic buy an ovo put something in it then give a reviewdo you know how my car drives because some one said so?? no you cant you havent experienced it so until then . . . your opinion means jack!


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## elmthesofties

Dudalous said:


> also and be honest have you ever actually owned one??


i am finding it hard reading message like this can you use grammer and punctuation please??
If you look at the profile of who you're talking to, you'd see that they have a picture album which quite clearly includes at least 1 hamster before you even open the album or read any of their messages. Quite a few of the active members on this site, and on this thread, have been heavily involved with rescue work. I have a lot of respect for quite a few of the members here because of their selfless actions. If you've spent any time on this forum, you'd see examples of what they do nearly every day. Can you have some respect for them, please?

I've owned hamsters for more than half my life. That doesn't mean a thing. You preaching about how you've owned one shows NOTHING. Hamsters can be kept alive living in a box barely bigger than my hand, which is what they're typically bred in for pet shops. Why? It works and it's cheap. It doesn't make the cage good. Rotastak/habitrail cages look pretty and can be stacked. That doesn't make them good. Hamsters don't live in burrows in the wild. They sleep in them. That's pretty much it. By keeping your hamster in habitrail/rotastak, you're making them live in the burrow, which is very unnatural. It's like if I forced you to stay in your house forever. They need space to explore out of that, as well, and being handled for an hour a day isn't enough.

The size of the two images was irrelevant, so I'm not sure why you picked at that. Making them exactly the same size wouldn't make a difference. It wouldn't mean that a wodent wheel would fit in a habitrail block. It doesn't mean that you could hang up any accessories to give the hamster mental stimulation.

You also do not state what cage you had to start with. Of course, if you had a mini duna, then that's no better than a habitrail cage in any case.

I think it's you that needs to do the research. I don't want to be a mini mod or anything but maybe refrain from insulting the members, too?


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## Micky93

Dudalous said:


> This makes me very sad designed for children hmm. . . yeah ok its pretty colors lets jump on that to mis inform people! omg you call your selves owners of hamsters ok lets go
> 
> normal cage/recommended -
> 1. hamster escaped very easy
> 2. chewed bars instead of toys
> 3. no real space for actual activity(dont kid yourself)
> 4. not designed to upgrade
> 5. always advised for separate sections for play(eg balls/ runs)
> 
> now i had habitrail LOVED IT!!
> 
> why??
> 
> Habitrail/ EVIL CAGE!! -
> 1. hamster never tried to escape
> 2. never chewed the bars(it has none numbnuts!!)
> 3. can have enough floor space if you care to spend as it actually is cheap its called shopping around!! also exercise can come from the climbing you run around straight for half hour then try do the same climbing a mountain lets see how long you last!
> 4. well by what im doing i guess you know what will go here i saw cages 70 quid i got 2 ovo areas for that!!a suite and a loft!
> 5. no need for separate play areas!! as all included.
> now i am looking again for habitrail sets and thought oh ill see how others like them and was appalled! i had the ovo suite and other bits what at least 7 years ago must be and never had the issues as with the recommended cage so instead of telling people not to go for certain cages as you arent experts and all cages can have faults teach people to love respect and take PROPER care for their hamster to not have the problems you all seem to have . . . oh wait i just realized im talking to the wrong people!


Firstly, you need to do your research. The RSPCA recommend a MINIMUM of 80 x 50 x 50 - the same size as a lot of the guinea pig cages you can buy from pet shops - If that's not a good amount of space for a hamster then you must be off your rocker.

also, Hamsters need to have a 'separate' play space as they need to come out of their cages for at least an hour a day!

Clearly my poor hamster is just going to have to make do with this cage




Oh, and just for the record his cage is 100 x 70 x 70, and it only cost £55. It has various shelves for levels should you want it, a good open floor space to run around in - something important for them! A deep enough base for very deep substrate to create his own natural burrows, and a 12 inch wheel!

But hey, what do I know


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## simplysardonic

Dudalous said:


> also and be honest have you ever actually owned one?? not just talking crap oh look at me i love hamsters. because if you havent you have no space to talk i have owned both which to me is doing your research i have seen both in action had a hamster live a long enjoyable life in the ovo system what have you done . . listen to others which also probably not used the system itself just looked and thought im not paying mmoney for that when this cage will do!!! then got on their high horse 'yes well im doing it for my hamster!!' when infact they didnt shop around saw high price and thought bugger that !!! teach others how to look after hamsters stop neh saying to perfectly good cages for pets when in fact you DONT KNOW! also really your gunna put a big picture next to a tiny one and try say thats the size comparison also when you have zoomed in sooo much omg learn to actually argue as you look pathetic buy an ovo put something in it then give a reviewdo you know how my car drives because some one said so?? no you cant you havent experienced it so until then . . . your opinion means jack!


Wow you're polite!

and rather full of crap


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## blade100

Mickey93 your cage is excellent and your hamster is very lucky! :thumbup:

Oh and to the other person I happen to be a FEMALE so don't call me a mr I'm a mrs  
And yes I've had numerous cages over the years, all shapes and sizes and the hamster heaven is by far the best hamster cage I've ever owned.

I had my very first hamster when I was 10! I'm now 29.


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## emma20

My last Syrian had one of these and he needed the space, if not more
Mary Rat Cage by Ferplast | Pets at Home



Dudalous said:


> learn to do your research


Do yours!
http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Blo...here=1169720056106&blobheader=application/pdf



Dudalous said:


> also and be honest have you ever actually owned 1???.


Have you?


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## Dudalous

also i read the rspca thing as was interested its, provide it the ability for natural habits like burrowing! lol yea cause the tubes in the ovo dont give it that at all when its running through small areas as it mite in the wild hmm. . . priceless!


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## emma20

You learn to read, if you had looked on the RSPCA link I gave you then you would see the cage is not suitable for a Syrian hamster


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## Dudalous

and look up the size of them before going on about size the ovo suite and loft provide ample room also give it great climbing opportunities and i personally look at either of these alone as starter kits to add on to and would have both minimum for an adult hamster which at 55 quid i see as a bargain cage that looks good with gud possibility to expand!


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## blade100

Dudalous said:


> also i read the rspca thing as was interested its, provide it the ability for natural habits like burrowing! lol yea cause the tubes in the ovo dont give it that at all when its running through small areas as it mite in the wild hmm. . . priceless!


Have you owned a breeder bred Syrian hamster?
They are much more larger than pet shop hamsters and they just would not fit in these tiny tubes that run through the ovo, habitrail,critter trail and rotastack.

Well im off to :mad2:against a brick wall.


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## Dudalous

emma20 said:


> You learn to read, if you had looked on the RSPCA link I gave you then you would see the cage is not suitable for a Syrian hamster


how??? im curious!


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## Dudalous

blade100 said:


> Have you owned a breeder bred Syrian hamster?
> They are much more larger than pet shop hamsters and they just would not fit in these tiny tubes that run through the ovo, habitrail,critter trail and rotastack.
> 
> Well im off to :mad2:against a brick wall.


the largest a syrian can grow is 7 inches and i didnt even have to look that up weird hey !!! so please carry on this is fun watchin you talk bubbles to win an argument!


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## blade100

The ovo loft measures 69cm (27in) long, 30cm (12in) wide and 25cm (10in) high. 

Savic hamster heaven measures 80cm long x 50cm wide x 50cm high


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## simplysardonic

Dudalous said:


> and look up the size of them before going on about size the ovo suite and loft provide ample room also give it great climbing opportunities and i personally look at either of these alone as starter kits to add on to and would have both minimum for an adult hamster *which at 55 quid i see as a bargain cage that looks good* with gud possibility to expand!


Personally I'd go for the most suitable habitat for optimum animal welfare over price & appearance any day.


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## blade100

Dudalous said:


> the largest a syrian can grow is 7 inches and i didnt even have to look that up weird hey !!! so please carry on this is fun watchin you talk bubbles to win an argument!


You've obviously never had a breeder bred hamster! Clearly.


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## Bloodraine5252

Dudalous said:


> how??? im curious!


I don't normally do this but you are an idiot. The fact you are not listening, your first post was inflammatory, and that you have a "know it all" attitude against the odds proves it.

I applaud all the other posters for keeping their cool as long as they have.

Oh, and yes, I have owned hammies as well as other small flurries. I don't claim to know everything about them though!


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## Dudalous

blade100 said:


> The ovo loft measures 69cm (27in) long, 30cm (12in) wide and 25cm (10in) high.
> 
> Savic hamster heaven measures 80cm long x 50cm wide x 50cm high


 omg can u not read i said look up both they cost 55 pounds to buy both the suite and loft which i have found the heaven new as them two items its was 70 pounds so put both measurements of the loft AND suite together !!


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## blade100

For an extra £4 I know which cage I'd rather get
Hamster Cages: great selection at zooplus: Hamster Heaven 80 Cage


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## emma20

Dudalous said:


> omg can u not read i said look up both they cost 55 pounds to buy both the suite and loft which i have found the heaven new as them two items its was 70 pounds so put both measurements of the loft AND suite together !!


You really can't add the floor space of the suite to the floor space of the loft IF the hamster can get through the tubes to the suite it would only have the space to turn around


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## blade100

Is this the suite http://www.amazon.co.uk/Habitrail-OVO-Suite-Hamster-Habitat/dp/B000UODW6U

If so no thank you! 
I don't want my hamster getting stuck in the tubes or making there bed in the tubes and peeing in them. At least with the hamster heaven cage you can take the tubes off but still have plenty more room.


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## emma20

blade100 said:


> Is this the suite Habitrail OVO Suite Hamster Habitat: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies
> 
> If so no thank you!
> I don't want my hamster getting stuck in the tubes or making there bed in the tubes and peeing in them. At least with the hamster heaven cage you can take the tubes off but still have plenty more room.


Yep that's the amazing suite, the hamster in that will be like sardines in a tin


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## blade100

emma20 said:


> Yep that's the amazing suite, the hamster in that will be like sardines in a tin


Exactly, I feel sorry for any hamster that has to live in the ovo type cages.


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## Dudalous

Bloodraine5252 said:


> I don't normally do this but you are an idiot. The fact you are not listening, your first post was inflammatory, and that you have a "know it all" attitude against the odds proves it.
> 
> I applaud all the other posters for keeping their cool as long as they have.
> 
> Oh, and yes, I have owned hammies as well as other small flurries. I don't claim to know everything about them though!


no my point is no1 has owned them but are tryin to talk about how they know all about them read the posts properly and again no1 has answered me!! my only point is i have owned both i dont kno it all but i am not talkin as a person hu has not experienced both styles of cages where most are !! they dnt have both styles so cant really comment on the ones they dont have they copy an paste other peoples opinions and divert when pulled up about it and dont make a point of educating people on pet care they just have a 'well i love my pet and do the best and every1 else is wrong' attitude own an ovo then talk about it if not then dont bash sopmething you never had and just make sure you inform people of the way to look after a pet( in this case hamster) like i said i can buy the loft AND suite for less then a lot of cages and it is perfectly good and i had more luck with it then the recommended cages(i say for this site) so how can people just use there time to argue against someone who using this had a great time and then use arguments like 'well the rescue animals' AND?? i do a job that i will not go into but it does not mean in my field i kno everything about it and can say 'well the way x person does it is wrong' you people make me sad for the community you limit your views and are closed minded i never said myself that you cant have a normal cage but it isnt a one or the other scenario either


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## Dudalous

emma20 said:


> You really can't add the floor space of the suite to the floor space of the loft IF the hamster can get through the tubes to the suite it would only have the space to turn around


have you ever seen a hamster going through a ovo system?? instead of keep adding nonsensical jargon answer my question then answer how does the ovo at all get called unsuitable by the rspca??? what is it that makes it unsuitable give an actual reply rather then going off point to make silly little quips that you and emma can like each other for!


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## blade100

I wouldn't waste my money on a crappy ovo cage, you see I actually care about the welfare of all my pets and I buy the best possible cages suitable for that animal. 
Syrian hamster like a lot of floor space and this is what I have provided in the past, not bloody tubes that are too small to turn around in etc.

And yes I've had similar cages to the ovo back when I was a child and guess what, I've never gone back to those awful cages.

If you take a look at the zooplus web site at the hamster cages you will see some are cheaper than the ovo and are twice the size so no need to buy add ons.


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## emma20

Dudalous said:


> have you ever seen a hamster going through a ovo system??


Have you ever seen a hamster?
Iv seen the tubes on that cage I got some for my last Syrian off the internet, he couldn't get through


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## Bloodraine5252

Dudalous said:


> no my point is no1 has owned them but are tryin to talk about how they know all about them read the posts properly and again no1 has answered me!! my only point is i have owned both i dont kno it all but i am not talkin as a person hu has not experienced both styles of cages where most are !! they dnt have both styles so cant really comment on the ones they dont have they copy an paste other peoples opinions and divert when pulled up about it and dont make a point of educating people on pet care they just have a 'well i love my pet and do the best and every1 else is wrong' attitude own an ovo then talk about it if not then dont bash sopmething you never had and just make sure you inform people of the way to look after a pet( in this case hamster) like i said i can buy the loft AND suite for less then a lot of cages and it is perfectly good and i had more luck with it then the recommended cages(i say for this site) so how can people just use there time to argue against someone who using this had a great time and then use arguments like 'well the rescue animals' AND?? i do a job that i will not go into but it does not mean in my field i kno everything about it and can say 'well the way x person does it is wrong' you people make me sad for the community you limit your views and are closed minded i never said myself that you cant have a normal cage but it isnt a one or the other scenario either


That was so difficult to read. Is your return key broken??

From what I get of the above. Pot. Kettle. Black. Are words that spring to mind!

Have you ever owned any other cage? I don't need to own something to know its not suitable, I have eyes to see the sort of space there is and the ability to read cage dimensions.

The posters are answering you. Just because you don't like the fact they don't agree with you doesn't make them wrong.

To me (yes I have seen one!) Those cages are unsuitable. I would not consider buying them no matter how much of a "bargain" they seem to be.

I kept my first rat alone for her first few weeks, in a hamster cage no less. She seemed fine, it didn't seem to do her any harm...does that mean it was right? No it doesn't. And I wouldn't be advocating it.

My original point still stands as you've given no reason at all for me to change it.


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## blade100

Dudalous said:


> have you ever seen a hamster going through a ovo system?? instead of keep adding nonsensical jargon answer my question then answer how does the ovo at all get called unsuitable by the rspca??? what is it that makes it unsuitable give an actual reply rather then going off point to make silly little quips that you and emma can like each other for!


Does it meet the cage measurements of 80cm x 50cm x 50cm? That's floor space!


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## Dudalous

blade100 said:


> Does it meet the cage measurements of 80cm x 50cm x 50cm? That's floor space!


like i said you cant answer properly pathetic


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## blade100

Dudalous said:


> like i said you cant answer properly pathetic


Your ovo cage is not meeting the RSPCA standards of what a Syrian hamster should be housed in.

I'm sick of going over and over again and I'm not wasting anymore time on this person. :mad2: :mad2:


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## Bloodraine5252

Dudalous said:


> like i said you cant answer properly pathetic


Are you incapable of understanding?

In a post earlier the ovo or loft measurements were posted. 69x30x25.

No matter what way you look at it, that does not meet the minimum requirements of 80x50x50.

= its not suitable. You cannot justify it in the slightest.

I hope your a troll otherwise you really are just that thick!


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## simplysardonic

blade100 said:


> Does it meet the cage measurements of 80cm x 50cm x 50cm? That's floor space!





Dudalous said:


> like i said you cant answer properly pathetic


I can't see anywhere that anyone has been 'pathetic' except for you, by resurrecting an old thread so you can spit out your dummy because someone somewhere on the internet disagrees with a particular cage.

Anyone would think you work for the PR department of Habitrail or Rotastak the way you're carrying on :lol:


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## Dudalous

Bloodraine5252 said:


> That was so difficult to read. Is your return key broken??
> 
> From what I get of the above. Pot. Kettle. Black. Are words that spring to mind!
> 
> Have you ever owned any other cage? I don't need to own something to know its not suitable, I have eyes to see the sort of space there is and the ability to read cage dimensions.
> 
> The posters are answering you. Just because you don't like the fact they don't agree with you doesn't make them wrong.
> 
> To me (yes I have seen one!) Those cages are unsuitable. I would not consider buying them no matter how much of a "bargain" they seem to be.
> 
> I kept my first rat alone for her first few weeks, in a hamster cage no less. She seemed fine, it didn't seem to do her any harm...does that mean it was right? No it doesn't. And I wouldn't be advocating it.
> 
> My original point still stands as you've given no reason at all for me to change it.


sorry lol so yes i have owned both had 2 syrians and 2 dwarfs( put tubes horizontal to accomadate. the posters have not once answered 1st owning 2nd seeing one with a hamster in 3rd told me how rspca deem it unsuitable 4th the reasons for this unsuitablility and also if the loft is near the size of the normal cage and the you add the suite which the hamster can easily get through to and is not that much smaller the you get more floor space actually. . . so how is yours or anyones here points valid i had 2/3 normal cages it was a long while back so dont know the names they were not the heaven but looked near the same and were not small but as i said my hamsters prefered the ovo just like i prefer a vauxhall to a rover does it make the rover crap no but does it make the vauxhall crap no!! they both are cars they do primarilly the same job just look different( sorry for the analogy but i like cars!) and pot callin kettle they were the first to talk about something they never owned have never experienced an i am disinclined to listen to someone that has no experience with the different cages. would you take fitness advise from some who was 300 pounds eating burger king???


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## Dudalous

Bloodraine5252 said:


> Are you incapable of understanding?
> 
> In a post earlier the ovo or loft measurements were posted. 69x30x25.
> 
> No matter what way you look at it, that does not meet the minimum requirements of 80x50x50.
> 
> = its not suitable. You cannot justify it in the slightest.
> 
> I hope your a troll otherwise you really are just that thick!


that is for the loft alone not the loft and suite together!!! soo . . . carry on walking


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## simplysardonic

Dudalous said:


> sorry lol so yes i have owned both had 2 syrians and 2 dwarfs( put tubes horizontal to accomadate. the posters have not once answered 1st owning 2nd seeing one with a hamster in 3rd told me how rspca deem it unsuitable 4th the reasons for this unsuitablility and also if the loft is near the size of the normal cage and the you add the suite which the hamster can easily get through to and is not that much smaller the you get more floor space actually. . . so how is yours or anyones here points valid i had 2/3 normal cages it was a long while back so dont know the names they were not the heaven but looked near the same and were not small but as i said my hamsters prefered the ovo just like i prefer a vauxhall to a rover does it make the rover crap no but does it make the vauxhall crap no!! they both are cars they do primarilly the same job just look different( sorry for the analogy but i like cars!) and pot callin kettle they were the first to talk about something they never owned have never experienced an i am disinclined to listen to someone that has no experience with the different cages. would you take fitness advise from some who was 300 pounds eating burger king???


What on earth has your choice of car got to do with the fact that both those cages don't meet the _minimum_ standards set down by the RSPCA for space?  It's not about your preferences but about basic animal welfare


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## emma20

Dudalous said:


> sorry lol so yes i have owned both had 2 syrians and 2 dwarfs( put tubes horizontal to accomadate. the posters have not once answered 1st owning 2nd seeing one with a hamster in 3rd told me how rspca deem it unsuitable 4th the reasons for this unsuitablility and also if the loft is near the size of the normal cage and the you add the suite which the hamster can easily get through to and is not that much smaller the you get more floor space actually. . . so how is yours or anyones here points valid i had 2/3 normal cages it was a long while back so dont know the names they were not the heaven but looked near the same and were not small but as i said my hamsters prefered the ovo just like i prefer a vauxhall to a rover does it make the rover crap no but does it make the vauxhall crap no!! they both are cars they do primarilly the same job just look different( sorry for the analogy but i like cars!) and pot callin kettle they were the first to talk about something they never owned have never experienced an i am disinclined to listen to someone that has no experience with the different cages. would you take fitness advise from some who was 300 pounds eating burger king???


1) yes
2)no because most people have common sense
3) not enough floor space
4) nearly is not enough, you can't add hamster sized boxes to it to make it bigger the floor space needs to be a certain size in one piece


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## lymorelynn

This is just becoming a slanging match now and is not going anywhere.


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