# Caring for an orphan???



## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Hello, 

Just back from holiday to find that the feral stable cat has abandoned her 2 kittens and one of them died on thursday.. We were told to leave them alone incase the mum went back to them, but this morning the wee last one came crawling right out into the passageway so i had to pick it up to put it back. Her mum isnt intersted, if she walks past she then she hisses and swipes at her kitten before running off. So, i now have a 3week old kitten curled up in a towel at the side of my bed. Unfortunately the other cat who has recently had kittens also isnt interested as hers are now 8 weeks. 

Could someone please tell me how much kitten milk a 3week old should be taking? I have 1 orphaned kitten that hasnt been fed in about 2-3 days. I took her to pets at home who gave me Bleaphar kitty milk and showed me how to feed her but there doesnt seem to be any instructions on how much to give her each feed.

She doesnt seem too keen on being bottle fed either, just paws wildly at the teat although she does on occasion settle and drink a wee bit. I have just been dripping a wee bit inside her mouth on the tip of her tongue as i dont want to choke her if she isnt taking it herself. Also can a 3week old poop etc on their own or should i still be stimulating it to ensure it goes?

Many Thanks


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Is there anything else i can try apart from this bleaphar kitten milk, she deffinately doesnt like it and just does frantic scratching at the teat and my hands. She is also only getting about 5mls each feed as she seems to be getting very agited i dont want to to scare her but at the same time i need her to feed. she only seems to settle if i put her inside my dressing gown, also should i wake her up to feed her every 2hrs or if she's sleeping should i leave her. Im going to go get a wee hot water bottle to help keep her warm since she doesnt have her litter mater to snuggle up to anymore. 

On a slightly different topic, my two cats appear scared of her, espc when she starts crying, if i have her with me they run out of the room and hide under the bed or table.. is there anything i can do to help this?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

The instructions on Cimicat will tell you how much, and at 3 weeks she might be able to take a little solid food. You also need her in the right posture to feed, which is the same as if she was feeding from her mum - on her tummy with her head up.

Weigh her each day at about the same time, use digital scales that weigh to grams. Argos sell them quite cheaply if you don't have any. She should be gaining 10g per day or more, though the odd day of less isn't an issue.

And keep her warm - if she feeds when she is cold she can't digest it and it can make her ill.

Lots of great advice at:
Hand rearing kittens


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## vinya12 (Jan 29, 2008)

i think you still have to wipe there bum to get them to toilet, as they cant go on there own yet


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> she deffinately doesnt like it


Is it warm enough? In my experience kittens are VERY fussy about the temperature of their milk and you will fight to get them to take it if it's too cool. In general I've found us humans tend to err on the side of caution so would prefer it to be a bit too cool rather than risk it being too hot. It does need to feel 'warm' to a human. Articles may quote blood heat - blood heat is warmer than skin temperature and normal cat temp is a couple of degrees higher than ours.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

It sounds to me as if she is desperately hungry but just can't cope with the bottle. I find a syringe MUCH easier.

Liz


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Thanks or the replies, that website had some great advise, and your right i think the milk might be a little too cool as when i made a fresh bottle up she seemed alot happier and even tried to hold it up with her paws (soo cute  ) The website says for to feed her on her stomach as she would normally but the vet at [email protected] said to lay her on her back.... shes alot more riggly on her stomach though. lol. She perked up for a wee bit had a small feed and is back sleeping again. After not been fed for so long im just hoping she doesnt get a sore tummy by now getting food. 

Oh and we have named her Tinkerbell.. Tinker for short. :yesnod:


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

lizward said:


> It sounds to me as if she is desperately hungry but just can't cope with the bottle. I find a syringe MUCH easier.
> 
> Liz


I did try it a wee bit with the syringe but the vet said i had to be VERY careful not to drown her with it and it seemed quite difficult.. maybe if she wasnt so riggly. I got a pm from someone suggesting that i give her normal milk, butter, sugar and an egg yolk, all heated up and mixed, which sounds good but i didnt think cats were allowed cows milk???


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Stick with the formula - and yes she certainly needs to be upright. As for drowning a kitten using a syringe, I very much doubt it, not at three weeks. I've fed loads and never drowned one.

Liz


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Thanks i will try that, since she has perked up abit she seems alot more intersted and easier to feed, she doesnt wriggle as much.. I have found one website that says a 3-4week kitten should get about 80ml a day is that about right? there wasnt any feeding amounts in the tub of formula i got and i cant find any on line. Got batteries for my scales so off to weigh her.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'd change her formula to Simicat or KMR were I you. It's far better. It also comes with instructions. Make sure you lay her tummy down when you're feeding. I can't believe your vet told you to put her on her back to feed her. I'm desperately hoping I misread that, but if I didn't, were I you, I'd be looking for a new vet...

You still need to stimulate them to toilet. Do you knowhow to do that? Make sure they poo regularly as bottle fed babies tend to suffer with horrid constipation. She needs to be kept warm at all times. If she's cold, then she can't physically digest the formula. A hot water bottle is a start, but you can buy pet specific heat pads which do a great job of keeping them warm. In the meantime, if you're stuck, just keep her as close to your own skin as possible.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> It sounds to me as if she is desperately hungry but just can't cope with the bottle. I find a syringe MUCH easier


So do I. I like to use a syringe with these
CATAC FOSTER FEEDER - SPARE TEATS --- Purrsonal Touch
It's by far the easiest way I've ever found of hand feeding kittens.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

carly87 said:


> I'd change her formula to Simicat or KMR were I you. It's far better. It also comes with instructions. Make sure you lay her tummy down when you're feeding. I can't believe your vet told you to put her on her back to feed her. I'm desperately hoping I misread that, but if I didn't, were I you, I'd be looking for a new vet...QUOTE]
> 
> Can i buy Simicat or KMR from a store or does it have to be online? It wasnt my vet who said that it was the vet/nurse at [email protected] I have just weighed her and she is 225g although i have no idea if thats good or not for a 3week old??


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

It's a little light for a 3 week old (the rule is 100g a week + 100g) so she should be nearly 400g. Or she could just be a smaller one. Anyway, keep looking for roughly a 10g weight gain a day. 

Goodluck


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Oh thats a good rough guide, i will work to that... ok abit early i know but at what age to kittens get spayed? my two were already done when i got them so im not sure.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Yipee just got a message back from my vets that they have Cimicat in the surgery and if i want to stop in tomorrow morning on my way to work i can get it. Hopefully that will do the trick.


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## Ingrid25 (Oct 1, 2011)

Leam1307 said:


> Oh thats a good rough guide, i will work to that... ok abit early i know but at what age to kittens get spayed? my two were already done when i got them so im not sure.


as young as 10-11 weeks, I think Also are you keeping little Tinkerbell?


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## Misi (Jul 13, 2009)

I think we should be asking why there are no photos, what do you think, kitty-lovers??


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Kittens can be spayed from 10 weeks ish BUT many vets won't do it that early - most seem to go for around 6 months. Find an Early Neutering Vet have a look here for early neutering.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Well she took about 10ml at 4am this morning and another 20ml at 8am. But no luck at lunchtime, she deffinately wasnt having it, lots of waving little paws, wriggling and pulling her head back. She had a good pee though but still havent been able to get het to poop. Im off to the vets after work to pick up her new milk so will see if they have anything that could help. Im beginning to think she may be abit constipated and well... i know what its like with humans, the last thing you want to do is eat more food.

I will try and get some pics up for you all but shes just this little black and grey furball at the moment. On the plus side, my two boys seem less terrified of her today, Ashes even went and sat down next to her crate this morning (still ran away when she cried but its an improvement).


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Bless you for taking care of this little one. Nothing to add as you have received excellent advice, just good luck and keep us updated on her progress.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Well got the Cimicat from the vets, made some up and she just wolfed 20ml in one sitting!! Not sure if thats too much for one go, but she seemed quite content so i let her keep going since she didnt take anything at lunchtime. Thats her had 10ml at 4am, 15ml at 8am and 20ml at 4;30pm sooo half way to what she is meant to have. lol but its a start at least..

Still no poops but the vets said to keep trying until tomorrow night, give her tummy time to digest what she has got in it, if nothing then bring her in Wed morning. Sorry but i dont know how to add photos here... i will keep trying though.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Everyone Meet Tinkerbell

My First Album - Shared photo album - PhotoBox

hopefully link works now


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## Misi (Jul 13, 2009)

Leam1307 said:


> Everyone Meet Tinkerbell
> 
> My First Album - Shared photo album - PhotoBox
> 
> hopefully link works now


Oh she's fabulous!!! Sounds like you're doing a grand job


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Oh the Cimicat seems to be working, only 3hrs since her last feed and she has just taken another 30ml and was looking for more, started sucking and licking the blanket... is this ok for her to do? Should i give her more or make her wait a wee while for another feed? i dont want to give her too much at once.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Just gave Tinkerbell (im thinking she may be a he now though) her last feed before i head off to bed, will still get up during the night but.... I forgot to weigh her this morning so just did it as its about the same time i did last night. scales arent digital so only only gives kinda to the nearest 25g. Last night she was just ever so slightly over 225g, tonight she is bang on 250g!! Is that too much gain for just one day? she has had 25ml of Bleaphar and about 80ml of Cimicat today so 105ml total.

Im not sure what i should be feeding her, should i feed to the weight she is (250g=80ml a day) or the weight she should be (400g = 135ml a day)???? Or should i go for somewhere in between?

Also no poops yet but she has learned to pee on her own as two pairs of trousers will testify to. lol she also had a wee pee on her blanket, just getting worried there have been no sign of poops yet.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

As long as she's still actively sucking on the syringe, I'd give her what she wants. There's a danger that some of the milk could flood the lungs if you over feed, but that's because people keep syringeing even after the kitten is full and has stopped suckling. If you're confident enough to know when she's stopped sucking, then let her feed until she's full. 25G is a massive gain, but I'd still be concerned that she hasn't pooed. A lot of that might just be stored poo. Has the vet taught you how to stimulate her to go?


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Well result, nothing at 4am. but at 6:30am... we have poop!


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Well weighted her again this morning.. after her poop (which seemed a decent amount) and she was 300g!!! Seems she just needed a little TLC.. I know her mum didnt feed her between Thursday night and Sunday morning when i picked her up but since she is putting on weight so quickly im wondering how often her mum was actually feeding them, since the other one died on Thursday.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

carly87 said:


> As long as she's still actively sucking on the syringe, I'd give her what she wants. There's a danger that some of the milk could flood the lungs if you over feed, but that's because people keep syringeing even after the kitten is full and has stopped suckling. If you're confident enough to know when she's stopped sucking, then let her feed until she's full. 25G is a massive gain, but I'd still be concerned that she hasn't pooed. A lot of that might just be stored poo. Has the vet taught you how to stimulate her to go?


Thats good, i had been perciviering with the bottle, still a challenge to get the teat in her mouth but as soon as she tastes milk she doesnt let go until its gone.. If you try put some pressure on and pull it away she grabs hold of it with her paws. Then just pulls away when she is done. She pooped all on her own this morning so hopefully now she is getting enough food in her tummy to actually produce some poop.

She has also started to nip at my fingers and try to lap at them if you put a little milk on and she rolls onto her back and sticks her back legs out so you can clean them.. she does the front ones herself! So cute watching her roll about trying to get balanced. Shes also doing a wee fast crawl/walk now instead of staggering about like a drunk. Think she might just make it!

Oh sorry for the long post... My cat Ashes this morning brought her his fav toy and put it inside her carrier while i was feeding her! It must be love! :001_wub:


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## Misi (Jul 13, 2009)

Leam1307 said:


> Well result, nothing at 4am. but at 6:30am... we have poop!


We're all happy when the cat poops!!!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Sounds like she / he is doing very well now.


Suspect your scales are not consistent - if you weigh the same kitten-size object several times I have a feeling you will get slightly different answers. If you can fork out for a cheap digital pair you will get a much better view of how the kitten is doing.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Ok i think im going to have to take Tinkerbell to the vets, she pooped yesterday morning but has done nothing since, i have tried a rough towel, cotton wool and baby wipes, circular motions and front to back and she just doesnt seem in the slightest bit interested in going. her bladder seems to be working fine just her bowels, shes got a wee podgy tummy now though and getting really worried about her.

Any other ideas on what i could do?


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

Took Tinkerbell to the vets on Wed who said she is very healthy and not skinny at all and as long as she is able to pass some stools every few days not to worry, since she isnt sore around her tummy, and is still eating and peeing fine then dont worry! She has started to get her teeth in and doesnt seem to understand that if she bites the bottle teat she wont get any milk. lol

Is 4weeks ok for me to start trying to get her interested in wet kitten food? She keeps chewing on fingers and her teddy and on the bottle.

Also unfortunately i have come to the decision to find her a good home as now she is getting more mobile, i dont really have anywhere in my house thatt could be turned into a safe room for her apart from the kitchen, but this is where my other cats spend most of their time and its not fair to upset their routine. Also my cat Diesel is totally terrified of her, he will not come into a room if i have her in there and he is a real people cat, always sleeps on my lap when watching tv, now hes feeling left out, also he can smell her on my clothes and if i go to clap him he runs away and hides. 

Should i take her to the CPL or try to find a home for her myself, but then im not confident that people who know how to litter train/feed a small kitten etc would take her.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Leam1307 said:


> Took Tinkerbell to the vets on Wed who said she is very healthy and not skinny at all and as long as she is able to pass some stools every few days not to worry, since she isnt sore around her tummy, and is still eating and peeing fine then dont worry! She has started to get her teeth in and doesnt seem to understand that if she bites the bottle teat she wont get any milk. lol
> 
> Is 4weeks ok for me to start trying to get her interested in wet kitten food? She keeps chewing on fingers and her teddy and on the bottle.
> 
> ...


I'd give your other cats more time to settle with her and work with them to overcome their fear of her. Once she starts running around and acting like a normal cat, chance are they''ll be less frightened. Tiny kittens can upset cats more than slightly oler, more mobile ones. If she's 4 weeks then you can begin to introduce food. It's a messy business though as she'll go paddling in it before she realises what it is. Sometimes it's helpful to mix it with some of the kitten milk formula so that she has a familiar smell to draw her to it.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2012)

I have done 11 this year, at that age. I wouldn't feed a kitten on it's back. WHY? I have taught my dogs to be gentle with everything,. My Norfolk Terrier X does everything for them, except suckle. When they first come, she is so gentle and very carefully licks faces and bottoms, but a week later, she sticks her nose between their back legs, flips them over, and licks everything, thoroughly. Everyone says, "How sweet," but truthfully, I think she sees them as lolly dispensers... Truthfully, I rarely find anything to clean up...

I put a little bit of gravy from tinned cat food, in the mix, and mash a little bit of mince in milk, put in a jar lid, and let them suck it up. I let the dogs lick the lid clean, so the kittens only ever get fresh.

I wish I could put up some pictures, but I don't know how to get them in the computer, let alone on a site. The kittens sleep with her or me, when very young. I would have the kitten on a towel, snuggled into my chest, at night.

There is a good chance one of your cats will soon be devoted, and the other may come round, or ignore her. Is there no chance you can keep her? My old cat is between 15 and death, and I swore he would be my last, but of the 11 feral kittens, I'm stuck with a wild, older kitten, and 2 boisterous, huge pitch black brothers. and have an enclosure for them. It's 30 foot X6 foot, at one end of a verandah. When I have enough money, I want one at least 30 ft X30 ft, X 6 1/2 foot.


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## AmeliaRose (Jun 28, 2012)

They should be having 21ml of milk per 100g (their weight) per 24 hours. According to Sherleys Lactol Gold that I'm currently feeding my kitten.. What I do is fill the baephar bottle to the 1.2 ounce, then when she's stopped feeding I put it back in the fridge and then take it out when shes due her next feed, warm it up by putting the bottle in hot water then leave it to stand untill its 37 degrees she seems to like it at that temp.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Constant rewarming of the milk strikes me as ideal for letting bugs grow in it. Personally I would throw away what is left each time.


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## Leam1307 (Feb 12, 2010)

OK it has been a few days since update, OH has decided that i can keep her!! Yay!

She is now weighing in at 325g (i got digital scales) and is up and moving about alot better not just staggering a few steps. Ashes is happy to play with her and HAS to sit and watch her have her feeds, he claws the door to bits if i dont let him in. Diesel is now happy to sit near her but moves away if she gets to close. There has been no hissing from either of them! 

I got Tink some Hi-Life kitten food but she isnt in the slightest bit interested, she doesnt even walk through it yet, just avoids it all together, i have tried putting some on my fingers but nope.. she aint having it. She has also started attacking the feed bottle, swiping with claws, biting and swinging from the bottle, she does eventually settle and feed but.. has anyone seen this behaviour before?? Im hitting a bit if a brick wall with what to do with her feed wise.

I also introduced a wee litter tray a few days ago, and she has been going in after her feed but as yet hasnt used it, still using the towels.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2012)

I put a little bit of gravy from a tin of cat food, in the milk, to start, and I also put some mince, just a tiny bit, into a jar lid, in the milk you make up, and mix the mince, into the milk. My kittens fall on it, like lions and suck it up.


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