# Can anyone help me in the dilemma?



## popsec (Apr 12, 2009)

It's said to keep staying on horse back while riding (trot or cantering), we shouldn't squeeze with lower legs, since this will tell the horse to speedup.

Well, say I want to trot, if i didn't squeeze, how will i stay without bouncing? someone says, squeeze just with your thighs, that won't tell the hose to speedup, but it is an aid for slowing down the horse.

SO! if i squeezed or made pressure with the thighs to keep staying while in trot, will this make the horse slows down??? so I am out of the trot though I don't want to yet, and if i didn't squeeze, i will start bouncing!

My great aim during lessons now is to stop that hurting bouncing when starting to trot, my instructor just says, stay on, keep in contact with the saddle, I really try to, tensioning my muscles to stay on, which makes it worse.

Can anyone solve this for me and tell me what are the things that I need to fix, even if the mistakes were in the theories I mentioned.

My Dilemma in brief (How it says everywhere, keep in contact with the horse with your legs, and still saying, no squeeze with knees, shouldn't i keep my knees tight with the saddle) ??

Hope I described the situation clearly.

Thanks.


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## Chesben (Mar 4, 2009)

Just relax, don't tense your muscles that will make it worse and move with the horse, I promise you will get used to it. I think to be honest you are simply thinking about it too much. Sing in your head to take your mind of it and really feel the horse. You should just be feeling rather than thinking about what to do if your aim is simply to stop bouncing so much


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

I can be of no help! I learnt the wrong way - mummy sent me to a riding school to learn correctly but I never mastered the trot!!! despite the extortinate prices (in them days ten bob an hour) I left and when older went to a riding school that just hired out the horses (against mums wishes) with little or no instruction , The horse took off with me - galloped across a field following the others - jumped a small hedge with me hanging on for dear life - that was the day I learnt to ride - and had a last the perfect trot - gone was the bumperty bump! but whether I do it right or no I don't know I did have a saddle on that day but do tend to I grip with all my inner leg, maybe because I rode bare back much of that time so it's maybe its a bad habit thats stuck .
DT


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## Chesben (Mar 4, 2009)

Yes DT that is probably the best way to learn although slightly scary at the time!! What probably worked best was that you weren't thinking about it. When I was 12/13 we used to have an instructer that used to make us sing nursery rhymes - totally took your mind off it. I actually used to do show jumping so that makes you have a better seat as you have to have a good seat to be able to stay on.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

I had the riding lessons when I was about 7 years old - totally went off it - that incident happened when I was around 12 years old - I was with my best friend at the time - who became sort of famous in the horse world !! She is still very involved in the horsy world aged fifty plus - despite suffering brain damage due to an accicent when she was 19 years old!
DT

And to add - you don't really see the dangers at 12 years old!!! was just hanging on for all I was worth!


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## popsec (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks all for your helpful replies,

Everytime I really don't intend to worry that much about bouncing, I just say to myself, when it starts to trot I will be fine and fixed in the saddle, however at the first second of starting trot I found myself bouncing off the saddle, the weird thing is that I succeeded to make a two-point position in my trot, but that was against the pace of the lesson.

Is it real that the horse start to trot and I stay in the saddle?  I began to feel it's like a dream 

What can really prevents me from bouncing in the very beginning of the trot, if this happened and i succeeded in bringing myself fixed for few seconds then I am sure I will get the sense.

Is it thigh muscles? lower legs squeeze? or what else that I can try in my next lesson that would keep me on the saddle without bouncing?


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

popsec said:


> Thanks all for your helpful replies,
> 
> Everytime I really don't intend to worry that much about bouncing, I just say to myself, when it starts to trot I will be fine and fixed in the saddle, however at the first second of starting trot I found myself bouncing off the saddle, the weird thing is that I succeeded to make a two-point position in my trot, but that was against the pace of the lesson.
> 
> ...


relaxing and stop thinking about it as a theory!!my kids taught themselves to ride by mucking about with their ponies in the field.have fun and stop making it so hard


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## popsec (Apr 12, 2009)

You are right, it's something that can come naturally. though I just came up with a new theory now  it's the balance that keeps someone on the saddle when the horse is on trot or canter, though I am not sure what it exactly means, is it staying from falling, or staying without bouncing ? 

so curious about my next lesson, really really don't want to bounce anymore :biggrin:


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

Seriously! I could canter before I could trot! The trot was the hardest to master in my opinion!
DT


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## popsec (Apr 12, 2009)

I know what you mean, I did it myself and found that during cantering I am more likely to follow the movement of the horse smoothly, however, in trot, i always start my lesson with great frustration with the first bounce I make, feeling unable to fix myself in the saddle.

anyone here has any video showing how the body should react with the trot?


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## Paws of Eskbank (Apr 15, 2009)

Deep breaths and relax, we do not stay on by tensing particular muscles, just like it was said before enjoy yourself and don't think too much about it! If you tense your thighs or calves your legs will bunch up as you will be gripping with your knee's and you will bounce and it won't be a lot of fun! Just relax and remember to breathe - the tip of singing a song is a good one!

Your question earlier about where the book was on the classical riding website - check out under the merchanise tab

CRC - Invisible Riding

If you really want to watch other people - try searching on you tube or better still go to some local dressage competitions and watch. It always helps watching other people riding!

Steph
Paws Of Eskbank


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## popsec (Apr 12, 2009)

Does anyone really know why bouncing takes place? it might help to understand the reason to fix the problem?

My opinion is that during the trot the horse is doing ups and downs movement, and hence, it's very logic that anything on its back will bounce, lifting it up then dropping it down.

If this is true, and no one is recommending to squeeze with any muscle to stay fixed on the saddle? so howcome this bouncing can disappear?

i.e what can singing or breathing do to some physics rule ? every action has a reaction, trot = anything on the back will bounce.

Let me know if i am getting it wrong all the way though


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## Chesben (Mar 4, 2009)

Its not about trying to do specific things you just sort of go with it to be honest. I don't really know how to explain it but when you see dressage riders doing trot they seem to fit the horse perfectly and sort of nod their head in time with it - they don't resist it. You shouldn't be trying to use knees, thighs or whatever - just go with the movement. Just totally sink into it - at first if it helps forget about trying to keep good upper body posture - just totally go with it - sink into it. Once you have mastered the trot without bouncing so much you can then worry about what your posture is like.

DT your friend is a couragous lady to have gone on to do very well in the horsey world after brain damage


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

Chesben said:


> DT your friend is a couragous lady to have gone on to do very well in the horsey world after brain damage


That friend - her name is Gillian - was in the very first 'womans' race that was on TV, alas she fell at the fidth! but I was there cheering her on! The brain damage wa due to a motor cycle accident! She went on to break race horsses for a very well know trainer!

DT


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## popsec (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks Chesben and thanks all for your helpful replies,

Chesben, what do you by totally going with the movement? leaving myself freely to the horse movement? but this exactly is what makes me bounce once the trot starts. the horse sudden trot automatically lifts me up in a bounce and here it goes!


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## Chesben (Mar 4, 2009)

When the horse first trots you are bound to bounce for one or two strides intially as you are changing gait, just freely move with the horse. Forget what your posture should be, what you are doing with legs - just don't think about it too much. Trot is the hardest gait to master so give yourself some time


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## apache (Jul 16, 2009)

relax and the horse will take you.i had a hackney once and they must be one of the worst to do a sitting trot and canter with but i did grip with inner thigh muscles but also kinda being an experienced rider i also had natural balance and went with the horse not against.sorry if dont make sense but seems the only way at the mo to explain,it is late lol.


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## welshcoblady1 (Sep 3, 2009)

If you have a good riding school the instructor should explain that the trot is a 2 time gait where the horses legs move in diagonal pairs.

Before you set off to ride do see that your leathers are the correct length for you because if they are to long you will ride on tip toe and if to short you will tip forward and bounce.

Do see that you have a supple back and seat moving with your horse and a nice long relaxed leg from your hip,see that you are sitting up right with your tummy facing forward and having dropped your shoulders to give you supple arms and elbows through to your wrist and fingers so that you can allow your horse to go forward..if you are supple through your back and seat you will feel your horse moving under your seat.

Whilst walking on your horse let your leg come down from your hip and look down and you will see the tip of your toe just in front of your knee.
have your leg around your horse but with no gripping because as soon as you grip this will send you away from the back of your horse and out of balance.

when your horse is walking nicely forward ask for trot as he starts to trot keep your leg long and underneath you your knee and ankle become a spring
for your up and down movement, no gripping its a little like standing up and down in your stirrups but you only need to rise a little not right up into the air
the movement of the horse will help you to rise as he changes diaginal prs of legs this gives you a 2 time movement ,as you rise your tummy is moved towards the horses ears and you can count to your self 1,2,1,2,1,2 .
if you need to use leg aids to keep the horse trotting apply a little sqeeze of your lower leg as you come down to sit in the trot not on the up of the trot.

It feels like you are springing up from your ankle do try to keep your lower leg long and underneath you and not shooting forward or back.

Whilst in rising trot you do not need to grip with your thigh or lower leg just have your leg around your horse if you grip this makes you stiff in your legs and upper body and you will then bounce away from your horse hence bouncing.

Also when you are learning to trot only do about 10 strides as the longer you go the worse it feels if you have lost the flow and then try again for another 10 strides.

In time you may feel in tune with the horse for only a few strides but once you have have a few nice srides you know the difference and the rising trot will come with practise and suppleness and balance as you improve.

It is very easy to say no gripping its the first thing a novice rider does to feel safe and they think gripping will keep them on ,,it does not gripping pushes you away from the horse to move with the horse is what you are aiming for.
ask you instructor teach you about riding on the correct diaginal this is important for the comfort of the rider and the horse and for the transition to canter and more.

best wishes to you .


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

When i was learning we were taught to put a little pressure into the stirrup to push you up in the rising trot. It can be very very hard to grasp because it really is a little pressure to push you and then your legs do the rest of the work, without squeezing! I mastered it after.........hmmm many many lessons!!

Don't worry too much about it! xx


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Ive just taught my partner to ride, he had the same problem so i taught him to do sitting trot and to sit the first couple of strides then let the horse throw you up, you shouldnt be working hard to trot, let the horse throw you out of the saddle and then if you loose the rythum sit trot again until you feel you have found it again.


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## sharon_gurney (Jan 27, 2010)

deep breath and RELAX! The way I used to teach my begginers to trot was to take the reins into the outside hand and take hold of the front of the saddle with the other, as you ask the horse to trot pull yourself down deep into the saddle. Make sure that you are sat on your seat bones and not perched forward.

As the horse trots you should be able to feel the motion through your seat and pelvis, try to absorb the movement through your hips and pelvis. You will know when you get it right!! As you start to feel the movement gradually release the downward pull from your inside hand.

Also try riding different horses as some horses are easier to sit to than others and once you have mastered it on one.....its like riding a bike


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## CreepyKikiKev (Oct 31, 2009)

not read all of the other replies.
However, I think you are describing loss of balance and security in the seat?
At your lessons, can you ask for lunge lessons? These are exceptional for developing your seat, feel and effectiveness of your aids (in this case your legs)
on the lunge lesson you should do some work without stirrups to help deepen your seat, so you dont need your legs to stay on.
It also sounds like you can develop your core strength more (these are the muscles deep in your tummy and lower back- the ones you feel when being sick!!) You can develop this in many ways, by far the best in more time and experience in the saddle. You can also purchase a gym ball to sit on, whilst reading/ watching TV. 
If you go on youtube and watch videos of eg Edward Gal you will see that actually hardly any part of his leg lower or upper touches the horse. This is ideal, because when you come to use the leg to send the horse a message (forwards, sideways, up etc) then the horse responds quikcly because your leg has not been touching him the whole time. 
Perhaps also see if you can ride in a dressage saddle to help your stability.
Good luck and I hope this helps!


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## _Sara_ (Aug 15, 2009)

CreepyKikiKev said:


> on the lunge lesson you should do some work without stirrups to help deepen your seat, so you dont need your legs to stay on.


I was going to suggest a lesson with no stirrups.


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## lilacbabe (Jun 4, 2009)

_Sara_ said:


> I was going to suggest a lesson with no stirrups.


Perhaps the work without stirrups should be done in walk first though as starting of without them in trot could make the rider tense up and lose their balance.
In walk try doing a few exercises without stirrups to improve your balance

1/bring knees up and then streach legs down
2/ bring one leg back from the knee then the other then streach legs down
3/round the worlds ! a childs exercise but gives confidence. has to be done while horse is stationary to begin with though  This is where the rider does a complete 360 turn bringing one leg over to one side so both legs are together ,then faces back of horse then the other side and finally back to the starting position. Hope I have explained this ok.
4/ standing up in the stirrups bottom off the saddle

These exercises can be done at first keeping one hand holding on to the front of the saddle for balance and once the rider is more balanced and confident they could try some of the exercises not holding on or even in trot.

I am a great believer in hacking out too as sometimes a lesson in a school can be hard as there is a lot of " steering "to think about. On a hack it is more relaxed and therefor the rider can concentrate on enjoying the ride and can think about feeling the movement of the horse without worrying about corners, what their legs and hands are doing etc.

Do you ever get to go out hacking ?

In trot using the hand on the saddle for balance is a good tip , pulling the seat down in to the saddle , relaxing the leg and pelvis and doing a sitting trot. A very good way of feeling the movement , pretend bottom is glued to the saddle
Posting or rising to the trot can be confusing as some riders just think that you count 1 and stand up and 2 sit down but they get the "beat" wrong and that is why they bounce. Dancing to a twist instead of a slow song or vice versa  Learning to count out loud to the trot and watching the horses shoulder movement ie sit when the right shoulder comes back can help explain when to sit and when to post/ rise.Also ask the teacher to bandage the horses legs ie off fore and near hind then look at the way the horses legs move in the trot.

Rising by standing on the stirrups is not exactly what a rider should be doing as the movement of rising should actually come from the pelvis and a supple but strong back and it is more of a thrust forward than a standing up movement . Standing in the stirrups can cause a rider to come up too high lose their balance then miss the beat and again this will cause a bounce.

As you can see relaxing, suppleness and balance are very important in riding so as mentioned the exercise ball thing is very good for achieving these things. There is actually a book on riding that tells you how to use the exercise ball to improve all these things but cannot remember the name of the book I shall have a look and see if can find out.

So relax enjoy and learn


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## Zayna (Apr 19, 2009)

I always squeeze on when I am in trot to keep the horse moving forward, if they start to speed up too much i squeeze down the rein or half halt them to slow them down. Sorry if thats wrong but thats the way I was taught!

I was told that if you dont keep your leg on while trotting the horse will slow right down or forget you are on it, you need to be maintaining contact at all times.


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## Patsyb (Jun 21, 2010)

I might be talking a load of rubbish but being 50 and coming back to riding after a very long time.......... I find it's all in the hip movement. Even after all this time I find if you let your hips go with the horses movement you don't bounce at all. 
I even find sitting trot easier than rising these days. Give it a try.
PatsyB


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## Melx (Dec 23, 2009)

I am a bit confused.... are we talking about sitting trot or rising trot? lol :confused1:


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