# Nasal Squamous Cell Carcinoma



## jomax (Aug 13, 2008)

I am so very, very sad.....my beloved golden, Erik who is 8 years old has just had a biopsy done on his nose and it has been confirmed as SCC. The growth is at the very front of the nostril and is slightly protruding out. The vet also did an xray, taken inside his mouth, whilst under anesthetic and this showed no other abnormalities either in the sinuses or in the palette, in fact the vet said 'good news'!! There was just this area in the front of the nostril where the growth is. He is currently on piroxicam and cytotec (my vet was not aware of this treatment, i have done all the research on the internet myself) which I had my vet prescribe, and N-Tense, Pau D'arco and Flaxseed oil. 

The vet has agreed that although he could try and surgically remove the growth, he would also need to remove 2cm of clean tissue as well, which basically means that he would have to remove Eriks nose!! I cannt put him through that, and then the vet has said that it doesnt guarantee to completely get rid of the tumor. Although, this form of cancer is very agressive, it does tend to remain localized and rarely spreads, there is a 5 - 10% chance of this.

I have considered radiation or chemo, but the vet has discounted both, saying that the success rate for either is very very slim.

I have been reading about cryosurgery, where basically the tumor is frozen to remove it, this is far less invasive than regular surgery, so I am trying to locate a vet in my area that offers this form of treatment.

If i am unsucessful with this, then I will have the bulk of the tumor removed, when it starts to become a problem for Erik as far as his breathing is concerned, which so far it hasnt.

Erik is a very happy dog, who doesnt know that anything is wrong with him, he occasionally has a short lived sneezing bout, which causes the tumor to bleed ever so slightly, but nothing very much. Apart from that, there doesnt appear to be anything wrong with him. My husband is gutted and ends up crying every evening while stroking and playing with Erik. He is just the sweetest golden you could ever meet, with not a nasty thought in him, all he wants to do is bring you one of his collection of cuddly toys out of his toybox for you to play with him, he greets each of us when we come in, with a cuddly in his mouth, which he pushes at you and follows you about with. He is asleep at my feet as I write this, and he will soon follow me into the bedroom ,where he will sleep on the floor at the side of the bed. Neither, myself or my teenage children can imagine life without him, as he is a very companionable dog, who doesnt like his own company, or that of other dogs, he just wants to be with you all the time.

Therefore, I refuse to give up on him and I will fight and fight and do what ever it takes to get through this with him. 

Please pray for us, every little good wish and good vibration helps, I just try to have positive feelings when I am around him, as I dont want him to pick up on my sadness, which I know he would do.


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

Erik sounds a gorgeous chap. Sending him and you all healing thoughts.

Lumps x


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

Thats so sad.. good luck with everything

My lab was 2 when she got a heamatoma (cant spell it) on her splene... the vets told us it was malignant so we thought she would be gone in a matter of months (what made it worse was she was 4 weeks pregnant)... 
Biopsy came back and there was no evidence of malignant cell change... miricle

I hope you get some good news soon


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Erik sound like a wonerdful companion, I'm so sorry to hear your sad news.
I'm sending lots of positive thoughts your way with much love.
Hope you find away forward together.

xx- Sophie - xx


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

so sorry to hear this i was talking to a Samoyed owner at a show & one of her dogs had this she was saying it seemed to be getting more common & was blaming councils for spraying chemicals to kill weeds, dogs sniff in these places(around posts etc), dont know how right she was but you never know

Fingers crossed poor Erik will be ok. Jo x


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2008)

Sending you big cyberhugs and healing wishes - Erik sounds a fabulous boy, and you and your OH sound like the kind of owners every dog would wish for. Hope you are successful in your search for a vet who will perform cryosurgery.

Give Erik a big hug from me.


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## proofpawsitive (Aug 16, 2008)

I am so very sorry to hear of your beloved Golden, Eric, with SCC on his nose. I am writing to find out more about the treatments you've taken and the drugs you are currently using. My dear, dear golden, Dylan age 12-1/2 also has SCC on his nose. Five months ago he had laser surgery to remove the small area, but it is back and much more invasive this time. The vets do not want to treat him surgically this time, and basically tell me that I should just appreciate the time he has left. Dylan, too, is a very happy boy, active, and doesn't realize anything is wrong. You've thrown me a life line with the things you have mentioned in your post. Please let me know more about Eric, and the treatments you are currently using. Are you seeing a conventional vet, an oncologist, or a more wholistic vet for treating Eric at this time?
Sue


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## RebeccaArmstrong (May 23, 2008)

Hi 
love and hugs to you and your little one .... he sounds such a wonderful boy xx


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## griffpan (Feb 2, 2008)

hugs to erik, he sounds a fab boy and you sound fantastic for him, good luck with his treatment


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

My aunt believes in blowing three little circles over the head at bedtime, not sure of its actual origin but she believes it keeps you safe and looked after.

I blew over my brothers head when he had a massive brain hemorrhage even after an emergency operation the prognosis was very bleak. It worked for us.

I don't want to give you false hope but what harm will it do. I think for us it was the power of our own belief.

Good luck with the treatment.

Sue


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## jomax (Aug 13, 2008)

A big thank you to everybody for your good wishes!!! its nice to know that there are people out there who care.

Erik, is still just the same, happy. But getting wiley about taking all his tablets, the prefered choice was originally wrapped up in little cheese parcels, but hes got used to this now and obviously is thinking why are they giving me my favourite treat so often, there must be something in the lumps of cheese and so is now refusing when offered, so we are having to be as inventive as we can about this. Baring in mind that he is having 4 tablets in the morning, three at lunchtime and 5 at teatime.

Everybodys help and advice is very very much appreciated, my honest feeling is never to give up. You do hear of people and animals overcoming the worst cancer diagnosis's everyday. So, I will keep on trying to do my best for him.
And i will keep everybody updated on his progress. Should anyone wish to pm me on this, please feel free to do so, maybe we can help each other.


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## Clarety (Jan 31, 2009)

A friend saw the message about your dog Erik - he is unable to access a computer at the moment. He has a labrador of a similar age who has also been diagnosed with SCC and is absolutely distraught. He has been desperately researching possible treatments and has found something which I assume he wants for his dog, but he also thought it could help yours. He wanted to know if your dog was still alive - I am very sorry if he is not and this will be very difficult for you. The treatment involved ECT and the drug into the tumour. I, and my friend, would be grateful if you could let me know about Erik, thank you.


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## jomax (Aug 13, 2008)

Hi Clarety. Yes, firstly Erik is still with me, its been 6 1/2 months since his diagnosis, and at the time, he was given 3 - 5 months.

The tumour is now very large and covers the front of his face, he has no black nose left. But he is still a very happy dog, who enjoys his food and his walks and loves to play with his cuddly toys.

He is currently taking:- Piroxicam, Cimetidine, Curcumin, Pycnogencol, Reishi Mushroom, omega 3 and multivits, Zeolite, Robert McDowells SCC,Noni Juice Frankincense.

He also has the tumour cleaned three times a day with Hibiscrub and a frankincense & lavender ointment gently rubbed all over it.

The tumour can be extremely messy and very smelly, it bleeds often and weeps.

My vet is amazed by Eriks quality of life, apart from this 'thing' he is still a very healthy dog, who even though the tumour now covers one nostril completely and half covers the other, can breath easily without having to breath through his mouth.

Do tell your friend not to give up hope, even though at times it may seem like an impossible road to go down, it really is possible to live with this 'thing'.

I do hope that your friends dog is able to cope with the growth and remains happy and healthy and that you friend can cope with all the 'nursing' involved, as living with this cancer, can sometimes be extremely stressful, it all depends on how commited your friend is willing to be.

Good luck, and if i can be of any further help, then please contact me again.

Max


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## proofpawsitive (Aug 16, 2008)

My dog Dylan, was diagnosed with nasal SCC last spring. He had laser surgery on his nose in March, 2008. In August, 2008, the cancer had returned and the vet who performed the laser did not want to re-do the laser surgery becase he thought it was too advanced. His advice was to take him home and enjoy whatever time I had left. After two days of crying, I decided to again contact the oncologist we originally saw. She is not the one who performed the laser surgery as her clinic did not have lasers. Dylan is still a vital, happy dog, and I felt that he deserved another opinion on his cancer. He has given me so much over the years, that I wanted to repay the favor. The oncologist suggested several options, and the only one feasable, in her opinion, was chemotherapy. So Dylan had 4 rounds of carboplatin, spaced 3 weeks apart, and went on an oral medication of piroxicam. Her thought was that this combination would buy us time. When I questioned her about what that meant, she said 3 or 4 months. Well, it's now February, 2009, and Dylan is still with us. His nose looks wonderful, and he is aging gracefully. He turned 13 in December. When we were give the time factor or 3 or 4 months, I wasn't sure if we should proceed, due to costs of chemo vs. time. But my husband, bless his soul, said that the oncologist really had no idea about time and that we should proceed. We are extremely happy that we did. I wish you all the luck in world with your beloved dog, you are his biggest advocate.


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## Clarety (Jan 31, 2009)

Hello Max,

Thank you very much for your quick reply  I am very happy to hear that Erik is still with you and is doing well despite the tumour. I read out your reply to my friend, Frank. He is going to talk to the vet who does this new treatment tomorrow and then take his dog, Echo, to the vets mid-week for the treatment.
He is very keen to talk to you as he feels this treatment could help Erik too  he insisted that I give you his mobile number and asked you to phone him if youd like to but Im a bit wary of doing that as this is a public forum, though Im happy to pass it on if you think it helpful to talk to him. In the meantime Frank wanted me to give you the webpage of this vet, who is in Knaresbough, N. Yorkshire. It is petcancervet.co.uk  you may already know about this vet. I hope this is of some help and thanks again. Clare.


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## jomax (Aug 13, 2008)

Clare, thank you very much for passing on this information, I was not aware of this vet, I have emailed the practice this evening, and I will let you know how I go on. In the meantime, please keep me informed how your friend, Frank gets on when he visits with Echo.


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## jomax (Aug 13, 2008)

Clare, could you please tell Frank that I have had a reply from Ron Lowe at the vets in Knaresborough, and he is not very hopeful that he will be able to help me, he says that he has only treated 2 dogs with this form of cancer in the nasal area with this new form of treatment (ECT), and neither where sucessful. I do hope that Frank has a better outcome when he contacts them.
Max


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## Clarety (Jan 31, 2009)

Hello Max,

Thank you for your messages. I am very sorry to hear that the vet in Knaresborough is not going to be able to help Erik. Im truly sorry that we raised your hopes, only for them to be dashed so quickly. Frank was so certain the vet would be able to help Erik but of course he doesnt know any real details about the treatment or its effectiveness depending on the tumour; he certainly meant the very best by wanting to draw you attention to this treatment, I just hope it has not added to your distress.
They are taking Echo to the vets tomorrow, weather permitting; I think they will wait until the vet has gone through the procedure, and the possible consequences, with them before they finally decide whether to go ahead. Apparently her tumour is on her gum and sounds about the size of a cherry tomato. When Frank talked to the vet today he said they might have to remove a couple of her teeth that are close to the tumour and there might be problems with bleeding afterwards. I expect he will call later this week and let me know how things went. I will certainly pass this info onto you.
In the meantime I can only apologise again for raising you hopes and send my best wishes for Erik.
Clare


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## jomax (Aug 13, 2008)

Thank you Clare, I have found over the past 6 1/2 months of doing research into this form of SCC in the planum, that here in the UK we are in the stoneage compared to the USA. They treat this form of cancer on a regular basis and have an extremely high sucess rate. There is really not a great deal that vets and the few vet oncologists over here can do to help with this highly invasive form of cancer. So I'll just go back to looking after my beloved friend myself. I have managed this long by myself and exceeded all life expectations for him, so I'll just keep on going, for as long as he wants me to.

Max


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## jomax (Aug 13, 2008)

Clare

Just wondering how your friend Frank went on at the vets with Echo?

Max


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Hi Max,

I just found this forum and see that your Erik was diagnosed well over a year ago with Squamous Cell Carcinoma. I pray you still have him with you. 

My dog was diagnosed with frontal sinus Squamous Cell Carcinoma on 3/2/09. We have done surgery, 3 chemos, radiation, a TKI drug called Gleevec, Prioxicam, and a local chemo called cisplatin. I also have him on a grain free diet with 25% cancer fighting vegetables as his carb source and 75% meat as a protien source. I also give him a max amount of fish oil per day. I have thrown everything possible at his cancer. The latest was the radiation. I pray so much that the radiation did it because nothing else successfully cured him. We should know in a month when we can do another CT scan.

I also found out about an amazing sounding treatment that I would like to share with you in case you do still have your Erik. I have not researched it much yet, and the limited info I have found says it is only available in California, however, that could be old and perhaps it is available elsewhere now. Below is a brief explination of the treatment I just discovered today that I have copied and pasted directly from the source.

Additional Treatment Regimens
A new and promising treatment for SCC is called Photo Dynamic Therapy. It involves the use of a laser beam to selectively destroy cancerous tissue only. An injection of photosensitive chemical is given to a pet that has SCC. The only cells that absorb this chemical are the cancerous ones. It is only these cells that are destroyed by the laser, the laser beam harmlessly passes through the normal cells that do not absorb the photosensitive chemical. If one of our doctors feels that this therapy is appropriate, they will let you know. It is considered experimental therapy, and is performed locally only at the Beckman Laser Institute at the University of California at Irvine, on a referral basis only.

I would love to hear back from you and maybe we can share our stories with each other.

Sincerely,

Jackie and Bremen


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## jomax (Aug 13, 2008)

Jackie

I am really sorry to hear about your pets illness. Unfortunately I lost my beloved boy on 20th Feb 2009. After a 7 1/2 month battle, the cancer had spread into his upper palet and was dislodging all his teeth. the bleeding from his nose and mouth was getting worse, and I was fearing that he may even suffer a 'bleed out' where we wouldnt be able to stop the bleeding it was getting that bad, the tumour had completely engulfed his nose and he could only breath through his mouth. But despite everything, he was still my darling boy, I watched him go out from the house on the morning of 20th Feb, with my husband and son, they where going for one last walk, he walked between them with his tail in the air and a spring in his step they came back alone.............

I didnt want him to go any further and start to suffer and be scared. That was the hardest decision of my entire life. Oh boy did I love that dog, he was my heart dog. I think about him every day, and I know hes still with me now and I know that hes guiding my two new baby boys - Beau and Luca, who are now 6 months old and where born 18th and 21st Feb. 

I really do wish you the very very best of luck, and I hope you get lots more time with your boy, than I did with mine.


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Hi, thank you for your response. I am so very sorry to hear that you lost your Erik. The way you speak of him is exactly how I feel about my Bremen. He is so special, we have such a deep connection. It is so hard to watch them go through such a terrible illness. I have been dealing with this for almost seven months myself now and I fear I don't have a lot of time left with him. I look at the CT scans and the progression and I have been able to see how fast it is growing and I predicted that I might lose him in September. I hope I am wrong. We got him radiation treatments which are supposed to get him an extra 6 months to a year, but there is only a 60% chance that it will work. 

Again, I am so sorry to hear what you went through with Erik. I am happy to hear though that you have adpoted two little guys with whom you can share lots of love and doggie kisses! And I know what you mean, like you with Erik, Bremen will always be with me in my heart. 

Jackie


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

Hello! Your story sounds just like mine. I have a black lab mix, he is about 11 1/2 yrs old. He was just diagnosed. I am still waiting on complete details regarding the cancer and treatment options. I would like to know how your treatment worked out for your golden.


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

Very Sad to read and hope you can get help. does anyone have any pictures of this? knowing what to look for is a big heads up.

Mo


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## proofpawsitive (Aug 16, 2008)

My dog Dylan, was diagnosed almost two years ago with squamous cell carcinoma. After unsuccessful laser surgery, he underwent 4 rounds of chemo with carboplaytin, and an oral n-said piroxicam. He is still with me today, at almost 14 years of age and no signs of cancer on his nose. If you would like pictures of what his nose looked like before, during and after the chemo, please email me privately. I pray for the best for your dog, and for you, too.


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Hi proofpawsitive,

I cannot figure out how to email you back privately so I hope this is okay. Your story sounds amazing that your dog is cancer free after such an aggressive type of cancer. So your dog has absolutely no cancer anymore? 

We did carboplatin and Prioxicam with Bremen as well but did not have the success you got. We also did radiation and surgery. Unfortunately it is growing faster than ever and I think my days with him are very limited at this point. We are going to try one last thing (and reading your post gave me new hope to follow through with the plan) We are going to inject the tumor locally with a Carboplatin gel. He is getting to the point where I almost decided to just let him go and not put him through anything else, but after reading your post I decided I am going to keep him around a little longer with hopes that we can get a cure for him too with the Carboplatin gel. 

Did your dog have tumor in his sinus as well as his nose?

Jackie


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

Thank you for your info. regarding Dylan. This is very helpful. The doctor had recommended radiation, but after reading about this on line, the location of the tumor does not appear to be a good spot for radiation. Plus the dr. is more than two hrs away. A dr. doing chemo is only 15 mins. away. I will seriously be looking into this.


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## proofpawsitive (Aug 16, 2008)

Dear Jackie and vegchowfun,
I don't know the extent of both of your dogs cancer, but I can tell you a little bit more about Dylan's. When we first suspected cancer, he had a biopsy and ct scan of his nasal cavity. The cancer was contained to the exterior of his nose, and had not invaded his nasal cavity. We opted for laser surgery first, as it was the least invasive, only one round. He sailed through that, and we thought all was well. But 5 months later the cancer had returned. The vet who performed the laser surgery, along with his regular vet gave us absolutely no hope. After several days of crying, and looking at this wonderful dog who is truly my heart dog, I decided to contact the oncologist again. She wanted to see him, and discuss other options. The first was called, I think, a planectomy. Basically removal of his nose. She did not want this, and obviously, neither did we. We talked about radiation, but it is terribly invasive, and causes severe burns. So that left us with chemotherapy. I had researched long and hard and found a study about carboplatin and piroxicam as treatment for oral cancer in dogs, with a remarkable success rate, and when his oncologist said this is what we were going to do, I was elated. Dylan went through four rounds of chemo. He was a little sick and sleepy for a couple of days after each round, but we saw progress with each treatment. After the chemo was through, he stayed on the piroxicam, but mainly because he has some arthritis in his knees. His oncologist saw him every 4-6 weeks for several months, and after 10 months, said we don't have to bring him back for another six. She's never said he's in remission, or cancer free, but it's been almost 2 years since that first sore appeared on his nose. She says that he is a success case, and is very happy with his outcome. We don't know what's ahead, so we take every day as a blessing. It has been a huge learning experience, and I realized that I have to be Dylan's biggest advocate. If I knew that he was suffering, I would not have done what we did, but he was and still is enjoying life.


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

Proofpawsitive,

Thank you for the reply. My dog does have the tumor internally, however, the vet stated they normally don't see it this small. Right now it is really thin and goes about 1 1/2 inches into the nasal passageway. We have had the CT completed and it has not gone into his sinuses. 

He just had a chest x-ray and lymph drainage last night to see if the cancer has spread. My husband also gave to the doctor what you wrote about Dylan's chemo treatment. He said that if chemo was recommended by the oncologist, that would be the method our vet would use. 

Dylan's success has provided me some hope. Looking online to all the studies and stories made the outlook for this diagnosis incredibly grim. You story is a bright light for our family.

Thank you,
Krissy


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Vegchowfun,

Your dog's tumor sounds very much like my dog's was last February. I have to say that over all my story is a success story (I say this because he was given only a couple of months to live and he is here 9 months later still) however it is not a success in the sense of a cure. He cannot be cured and unfortunately he is slowing losing his battle with the cancer. 

I will tell you what I would do differently and hopefully it will help you get a cure for your dog. I would have moved much more aggressively on it. If surgery is an option and you have a vet that wants to be aggressive with the surgery, do it. We got "clean margins" but even still it came back so apparently there was still microscopic disease. Another thing I would have done is have them inject a local chemo gel at the borders after the tumor removal (carboplatin or cisplatin) while they had him open for surgery. Even if surgery was not an option I would have had the tumor injected with the chemo gel. I ended up doing IV chemo which was not too terrible on him, but unfortunately this kind of cancer is not very responsive to IV chemo since the cancer eats into the bone and there are not many blood vessels in the bone to carry the chemo to all tumor cells. This is why I recommend the local chemo that they can really get it into the bone and make sure it gets in there. Even if your dog's tumor is not in the bone yet, it most likely is there microscopically. I think the best thing is to hit it hard with everything you can at once. If you do this, perhaps you will get a cure. 

We also did radiation but again, it does not have a high success rate with this kind of cancer. I would not have done the radiation looking back unless I did it right after the surgery, I waited too long in between and it was not successful. But I will tell you that if you want to consider radiation there are ways to do it that will not cause the terrible burns on the skin. My dog did not get the burns. If they get around 10 grays a week and not much more it greatly reduces their risk. Another radiation option is if you do palliative radiation. I have another dog with cancer who got that and it was cheaper, easier on my dog, required far less trips to get the treatments. If you do end up getting radiation for your dog, make sure he is on strong pain meds because they do get an internal burn that hurts and they need to be on pain meds. 

If I could go back in time I would have done aggressive surgery, local chemo gel, prioxicam all at the same time. Then soon as the surgery healed I would have followed up with radiation as soon as possible. I waited too long to follow up with radiation and it is much more successful on microscopic disease than it is after the tumor has grown again. Also the chemo and radiation at the same time boost each other in the ability to get rid of the cancer. 

If you have any questions I would be very willing to help you in any way I can. This has been a very long hard year for me and my baby but I have learned so much and I hope that I can help someone else possibly get a cure for their dog's Squamous Cell Carcinoma. This is not an easy cancer to treat so if you are going to go for it, my best advice is to jump all in and don't under estimate it. It is good to have positive thoughts, but don't let it get your guard down because unfortunately the horror stories are more the rule than the exception.

This piece of advice applies for much further down the road and in the event you are not successful in curing your dog of the cancer but if it comes to that you can still extend their life with pain management. Unfortunately this sort of cancer is especially painful. The pain meds alone just don't cut it. My dog's vet is great and thinks outside the box and recommended something she knew was used in horses but not in dogs. My dog's pain had gotten so bad that I thought I was going to have to let him go until she suggested this treatment. I said let's do it and it was a great decision. It gave me my dog back and it gave him his life back. He is still not cured and still on borrowed time, but he is not suffering. This will be important for you to remember in case you get to this point because it is not typical and it may not be recommended just because it might be over looked. Anyway the treatment is a local permanent nerve block that she did for him and it bought him more time.

Best of luck to you and your dog. It has been a tough road and the decisions will be hard, but if you do your research and keep gathering information you will make the best decisions possible for your dog. You both will be in my thoughts.

Jackie


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

Jackie, can I ask, if you HAD done all this aggressive intervention, what would the quality of life have been like for your dog, would it have ben suffering during all of this? reason I am asking is sometimes its hard to let go because we love them so much, but if holding on to them is causing pain, is it right? I am not being judgemental here, I just wanted to know is the cancer/treatment very painful or is the cancer something that attacks but causes no real discomfort? just trying to understand about the condition.

Mo


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

One of my biggest concerns with treatment was whether it would be hard on him or not. I almost decided not to get him treated at all because they told me that there was a good chance they would have to remove an eye. I thought oh God this is just terrible and I can't do that to him. I had planned on not doing any treatments and when took him in to get his stitches removed from his biopsy there was a dog in waiting room without an eye. This dog looked perfectly happy and acted just like a normal dog. I went over to the owner and asked why she did not have an eye. Turns out she had Squamous Cell Carcinoma, 5 years earlier. She was healthy, happy, and cancer free. She did not care that she only had one eye. That is when I decided that if a dog feels good and wants to live then you should still investigate treatments and decide if they are right for your dog, but just because it sounds bad to us does not mean it is going to be hard on the dog. 

I did do all the things I mentioned to you to try to cure my dog and more. The only difference is the timing at which I did them. So when I say aggressive, I mean to not waste time and to not think that it is just going to go away. I wish I had hit it all at once, as close together as possible, and perhaps that would have worked. The treatments have not been hard on him at all, I worked closely with a wonderful Oncologist to make sure that anything we did would not hurt his quality of life. That is why we kept the radiation about 10.5 grays per week, to eliminate the terrible side effects. That is not the standard procedure but used to be in the past and in her 26 years of experience she has not seen that increasing the dosage per week had any more success of treating the cancer. So I would not have changed the dosage, I still would have gone the route that would not produce the terrible burns, BUT I would have done it soon as he was ready after his surgery. I waited about 2 months after the surgery but could have done it as soon as 2-3 weeks. I should have done it sooner. 

The surgery was not hard on him either. He was playing just two days after his surgery. In fact to my surprise, I had not realized how much the cancer was hurting him until he had it removed. The treatments generally make the dog feel better because they get rid of the cancer.

IV or oral Chemo can be very hard on some dogs, but for the most part it is a very different thing for dogs than it is for humans. It is much easier on dogs than with humans, I believe they give dogs much lower doses than humans (when trying to extend a human life you are dealing with a much larger span of time vs. the short life of a dog) so less chemo is needed. Some dogs do have a very hard time with chemo though, they get nausea and diarrhea. There is anti nausea pills and anti diarrhea pills that definitely help. You can also switch chemos or stop chemo at any time if you see that it is hard on your dog. Even given all this info on detail, unless the Squamous Cell Carcinoma had metastasized or had been found to be in the process of metastasizing (found in the blood vessels) I would not do IV or Oral Chemo.

And then you have the local injection of chemo. This is what I did not do that I would have done. I did not do this because when they did surgery they recommended these local chemo beads. They problem with that is that although they release chemo locally and do not cause any side effects, that was all good, BUT it did not penetrate the microscopic disease in the bone. I wish I had known about the chemo gel at that point and I would have had them inject it all around the site of where the tumor was removed while he was in surgery. The chemo gel also does not have side effects because it is local, it is not being pumped through their veins and every organ.

Every dog is different and every situation is different. But if you have decided to treat your dog and try to cure him, just don't underestimate this aggressive cancer. Talk with your vet about your concerns to maintain the quality of your dog's life and then check and double check with people who have had the treatments you think you might want to do. This is the best way of being sure you are picking out how to try to cure your dog. There are so many options out there. But when you decide on a treatment plan, try to do it as close together as possible. The more you throw it at once, the better chance you have for a cure.

I personally think the most effective way and least harmful way would be to do the surgery, inject the chemo gel during surgery, soon as he healed from the surgery do the radiation (no more than 10.5 grays per week), and keep him on Prioxicam the entire time but be careful to take blood every two or three weeks because Prioxicam is NSAID and can cause kidney damage. 

So when I say aggressive I mean not to sit and wait between treatments hoping they worked, not to assume that all the cancer is gone just because it looks like it might be. It is so much about timing. And I totally agree with you that it is so important to maintain the quality of their life. I have done that for my boy and that I would not change at all! 

I will warn you though when you speak of quality of life, this is a very painful cancer for the dog to have, watch closely for signs of pain, sometimes it is not obvious, it is a long hard road. My dog's pain communication has all been very subtle he has only yelped three times through this entire 9 moths (of course before the removal and then after the damn cancer returned). A yelp is obvious, but he has done some not so obvious things and had I not been very in tune with his personality I might not have noticed. Pain management is an important part of going through this process. And you are primarily managing the pain of the cancer. The treatments are nothing compared to the cancer. 

If you have any more questions I would be happy to help.


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## jomax (Aug 13, 2008)

Unfortunately, here in the UK we dont seem to have the same advances in certain areas of animal medicine that you have in the U.S. None of what you where offered for Dylan was even an option for me and my beloved boy. I was told that Chemo doesnt work on Nasal SCC, radiation therapy after a consultation i was told was not an option either. Laser Surgery is not used in this part of the UK. Really i wasnt left with any options, i was really left to my own devices. I was told that he had 3 - 4 months my boy lasted 7 months and that was with no real help from the veterinary world. That you have managed to get your boy into a long term remission is unbelievable!!! I only wish that all the options you had, had been available to me, then my boy may still be with me today!! Diagnosed at 8 and gone at 9, is no real age, we were hoping that he was going to be with us until at least 13 or 14. I feel that he was cheated out of his time, by an evil, nasty disease, which is made all the worse, when it is actually visable and you can see it growing day by day and know there is nothing any professional can do to help you!


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

I am thinking this may be the type of cancer my beloved samoyed had 10 years ago, but he had it in his mouth, one day I noticed a large lump in the roof and sides of his mouth, it was difficult to see initially because all inside of a sammys mouth is black pigment, we had the growth removed, and the vet told me it was very aggressive, I was awating to take him to a vet hospital some many miles away, to arrange chemo treatment etc. and the lump had returned in less than 3 weeks by this time it was spreading down his throat and causing difficulty breathing, he hated to travel in the car and would have been so stressed out I feared he would die with not being able to breath and the stress, sadly in our case we had no option but to PTS, it was the hardest thing to do to look at him and see no external reason for this but I dont feel he would have lasted through any treatment.

Mo


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

It is terribly hard, my heart is aching and I am going through that now. There is nothing more we can do and the cancer is taking over his head and moving into his nose so that he can't breathe. It is just starting to get into the nose but we are seeing the signs of it being there so I know he does not have much time left. We numbed his head around the tumor with the nerve block so he is not in pain, but I know it is just a matter of time before the cancer blocks his nose. But otherwise he is a totally healthy dog who has a zest for life and can walk for a couple miles at a time. Yesterday we took him out to the Civil War battle fields and he was running like a young dog and tracking deer. 

You would not know this dog is sick but I think it is also starting to get into his brain because his personality is starting to change a little bit as well. He has been growling at our other dog for no reason, they have always had a wonderful relationship and it makes my other dog sad. It is so sad to see him changing before my eyes. But again, he can still do everything like a normal dog. 

It is a terrible terrible cancer and I wish so much we had been able to be successful in curing him. I think there are only a lucky few who do have that success with this cancer. I am sorry you had to go through it with your dog too, it is terribly hard and painful. I have lost dogs before (not to cancer), and it was never this hard. All the decision making, all the pain the cancer causes, the way you want them to continue living thier happy life but the cancer has other plans, the ups and downs thinking each time that maybe they are cured and you can just go back to living normal. It has just been emotionally exhausting. My heart has been broken this entire year, althouhg I have made sure that he has had the best year of his life. He has gotten special food everyday, fresh cooked salmon, shrimp, turkey, chicken, lamb, veggies, etc. and we have gone on so many walks, every day at least 3 long walks. I have not really left his side for more than a couple of house at a time. I take him to dog friendly public places, a vineyard, dog food stores, outdoor shoping centers, doggy yoga class, oh and of course he loves to go to grandma's house too. Everytime I go over there he goes too. We go to all these places on a regluar basis. Oh and all the doggy massages I have given him. I have done everything I can to make his life better since he has had to have such an awful cancer. Luckily the timing worked out also because as a result of the bad economny I lost my job the day after I got his diagnoses. This was terrible news but at the same time was so perfect because it allowed me to give everything to my cancer baby who was going to be robbed of life too soon.

Do you have a dog with Squamous Cell Carcinoma now again?


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## proofpawsitive (Aug 16, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear such disheartening stories about SCC in the UK. Here in the States, I was told the same things by "regular" vets, "sorry, no cure", and decided to become my dog's biggest advocate. Vetrinary medicine is changing so fast, and it's so important to see the best oncologist you can. It's a scary, unknown world when our beloved dogs have cancer, and helping them to fight the battle is just the beginning. When I would look at Dylan, his happy face, I realized that I needed to take his approach at life. To live each day to the fullest, smile and have fun, and not worry about what the future would hold. He is such a sensitive dog, that he knows when I am worried, and I wanted his life to be one big party, no matter what the outcome. So we, too, played, danced, took long walks, basically we spoiled him rotten. He barks for food? Guess what, he gets it. He barks for a walk, guess what, we go. But, I, too, know that cancer is an incidious disease, and no matter how hard they tried to get every single cancer cell, there may still be some floating around inside him somewhere. But, Dylan doesn't know that, and he enoys the moment he is in. When he gives me the "look" that life has become a burden, I know it will be time to help him cross the bridge. I hope and pray for you all going through this. Our dogs give us so much, that we need to do what we can, when we can. You'll know when it's time to let go, knowing your heart will break. This is something we all go through when we open our hearts and lives to these wonderful creatures. God bless.


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

After some difficult decisions, we decided last night to move forward with the chemo treatment similar to what Dylan had. I can't locate an oncologist that can do the gel treatment that was described. We were offered surgery to remove half of his nose. My husband and I elected not to do it.

I looked at his nose last night and it appear the soft tissue swelling has exceeded the midline of his nose. After reading several articles, sugery is at most 50/50. Pez is a wonderful dog, and we may have decided to due the surgery if he was younger. He is 11 1/2 years and with a life span of a lab being 12-14 years, I did not want him to lose the greatest sense for a dog. With the chemo we can gauge if it is working. If it is not working or he is not himself, we will stop it and enjoy the time with him. 

Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Oh my goodness, I must have missed that key detail that they were recommending removing his nose, that would be terrible and it sounds like you are doing the absolute best thing for him. When I said if surgery was an option I meant if it was a good option as in the case with my dog where it was just in his sinus. I am so glad to hear that you are not going to do that surgery, and I am horrified that it sounded like I was suggesting that removing his nose was a good idea! I am sorry to hear you could not find the chemo gel but they probably would not be able to do it anyway if they do not do surgery. I am praying that your dog will get great results with the chemo treatments. Did they mention putting him/her on prioxicam at the same time? Supposedly prioxicam and chemo work really well in conjunction. Best of luck to you and your baby and don't forget to ask for the anti-nausea and anti-dirrhea pills when you start your dog's treatments.


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## proofpawsitive (Aug 16, 2008)

I have my fingers crossed that Pez does as well as Dylan has done. Dylan was a month shy of 12 when his cancer started. His oncologist was thinking 3 or 4 months more of life, with treatment, and it's been well over a year, two since the beginning. Piroxicam was given to him during treatment, and he is actually still on it. I might suggest that you take pictures all along your journey, so that you can judge if it's working or not. We did with Dylan, and as his chemo treatments came about, I brought the pictures in so that his oncologist could judge along with us, if the treatment seemed to be working. His nose was terribly mis-shapen by the time chemo was started, and I knew he was in pain from the swelling. I was playing fetch with him before his first treatment and accidentaly him in the nose with a tennis ball. He stopped, went and lay down, and didn't move for more than an hour. Now he's back to giving me nose butts if I'm not shooting it fast enough. If you want to see pictures of what Dylan's nose looked like, I'd be happy to email them to you privately. Good luck, and hugs and kisses to your wonderful friend. Please keep us posted as to how he's doing.
Welcome to Proof Pawsitive Dog Training!
[email protected] (email)


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

Thank you, Proofpawsitive and lovemydogs7, for the well wishes. Pez had his first chemo last night. I will see how he does. We have to have a compounding pharmacy make up his dose of prioxicam, but that should be ready to pick-up tonight. He is on the same chemo therapy plan as Dylan. I am very hopeful. 

I completely forgot about the anti-vomiting and anti-diaherria medicine. The doctor stated he should not have any of that. If he does, I will get some over the counter meds.

I thought of the idea of taking photos, but have not so far. That is a great idea to watch the progress. I will start tonight. I want to keep an eye on it anyway to make sure this care is working.

Luckily, Pez's nose is not really malformed at this point. His right side of his nose is enlarged due to what appears to be soft tissue swelling. I can see the tumor at the inside side of his right nostril. It does appear to be slightly larger than when first diagnosed 2 1/2 weeks ago. He is sensitive in that area and protective when other dogs come to close.

I will continue to update you all. This forum has been great for me, both in allowing me a place to get information and the support to others. Thanks again for the well wishes. 

Krissy


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

I received a note back from the oncologist in Philadelphia about the gel chemo therapy. There appears to be a study that was conducted in 1995 with the main vet from the University of Michigan. I sent an e-mail to that doctor to see if this treatment is still be used and if can be shipped to where I live. 

Pez is doing okay. It appears the tumor is growing, but at a slower rate. 2 more weeks until the next treatment.


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Hi Krissy,

I sadly had to let my boy go a couple of days ago. If there is ever any advice you need or if you have any questions I will be happy to help you through your journey. You can email me privately and I would be very happy to help you. I will warn you, the journey is not going to be easy but try to enjoy the moments you have with Pez. I took advantage of all the moments, I spoiled my baby to death the entire journey, but I had trouble truly enjoying it myself because I found myself so worried over the fact that I would lose him soon, and I worried about not knowing when, and I worried about what treatments to do, the list goes on and on. I worried non-stop. If you can find a way... just don't worry. Just make each decision knowing that you have his best interest in mind and that everything you do will be for the right reasons. Also another thing that might help you not worry is to take a look closely at Pez's behavior. Is he acting like his normal self? Does he still have all the little details that make him Pez? If he does than he is doing just fine and still has his quality of life. Those are the moments to not worry. I found myself not enjoying precious moments because I was so worried of what was to come. Some examples of what I mean by watching his details are with my Bremen he always stood guard watching out the front window and when people or dogs would walk by the house he would jump around, wag his tail, growl, all sorts of stuff. He did this almost the entire time he had cancer and through all the treatments. The last three weeks of his life he had stopped. He even stopped getting up to say hi when I got home, although he did lay in his bed looking peaceful and would give me a warm look and wag his tail. But when all these things slipped that made him who he was, I knew he was already gone. It was still hard to judge though because your mind is tainted by optimism, denial, and also the fact that it is such a slow decline down that it is hard to notice. Bremen slowly lost one piece of himself at a time so I found myself questioning how much he had really lost. Be careful about that, your mind plays tricks on you when something happens slowly and when you don't want to let go. Maybe keep a journal of his behavior so you can look back and compare as you go along in the journey. 

I know most times this cancer is not curable. That does not mean it cannot happen, but just know that at best you will most likely buy some more time with your Pez. It will be the best time for Pez though, I know that. Once you get such a terrible diagnoses for a pet that you love so much, everything they get from you is so much better and has so much more thought put into it. 

Good luck with his treatments and enjoy every moment. If you ever need to talk, go ahead and email me 

Love to you and Pez.

Jackie & Angel Bremen


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

sorry to hear of your loss

Mo


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

Lovemydogs7,

I am very sorry to hear about your loss. 

Thank you for all the information. I do notice myself being overly consumed by how he is doing and not enjoying the time with him as much. I check his nose 2-4 times a day to judge if his tumor is growing. Even my husband is getting sick of it. He told me he did not want to hear about the size of his nose anymore.

He is still himself right now. The only thing really different right now is his breathing and staying away from my other dog a little more than he did. This is because she bumped his nose while playing the other day. 

But, he continues to play with her. When I see him playing with her I chuckle to myself. He was trying to hump my other dog yesterday at my mother-in-law's and she even said, "There is nothing wrong with that dog!"

However, he definately knows there is something wrong, because he has been a little more of a cuddle bug lately. I will be sure to take it all in. Pez has a great spirit and I am hoping, we have a wonderful and enjoyable time with him for however long we are able to have him and can look past all the worry that comes along with his disease.

Thanks again,
Krissy


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

For any of you that have been following my posts about my dog, Pez, I wanted to give you an update. Unfortunately, the chemo did not work. He had 2 treatments and was scheduled for a third, but the tumor was growing fast. 

Pez had surgery yesterday and had the front part of his nose removed, the black part. I go to pick him up in about an hour. According to the vet's office, he is doing well.

The vet stated that the cancer had gone further into his nose than what she thought, but she believes she got it all. The pathology results will take about a week. She projects he will have a good recovery and noted he is a "neat" dog.

Pez is otherwise healthy and strong, 11 year old. We would have not done the surgery otherwise. In fact, he was playing with his toys and my Dane on Sunday, the day before his surgery.

To all of you out there that are dealing with this, it is very difficult to decide the right thing to do. Pez's cancer was very small when he had the first nose bleed. The vet doing the CT scan stated they normally don't catch it this early. This was the first week of November and by the first week of January, Pez's nose was swollen approximately 1/2 inch from normal and I could see the red tumor cells spreading over the front of his nose. I feel like I should have listened to my inner voice and scheduled his surgery before the second chemo treatment, because by that time I felt I knew the chemo was not working. But another month later, here we are, he is had the surgery. It must be mentioned, I was completely against the surgery initially.

In my opinion, if your dog's tumor was diagnosed early, you have some time to try the chemo. The surgery is the best option, especially if the cancer is not caught in an early stage. Remember to keep in mind your dog's overall health and expense before deciding what option you are going to try. If our dog was not in overall good health, we probably would have done nothing.

But whatever you decide to do, know your baby loves you no matter what.

Vegchowfun


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## Sushiboofay (Mar 10, 2010)

I see this thread hasn't had any activity since January, but I am hoping that maybe some of you are still around. I just got the diagnosis today that our beloved golden named Frisco has SCC. 

For us - the tumor is below the nose, but appears to be eating away at the right part of the nose. It has spread quite quickly and seems to have grown since we did the biopsy last week.

I took a lot of notes on what everyone has tried and have a lot of information to research.

Our boy is 12 (13 this year) and had a tumor removed last year on his side that was spindle cell carcinmoa. I am kind of kicking myself right now - because I asked the vet if Frisco should be on some kind of immunity booster to prevent cancer from returning and the vet said that since that particular kind of cancer didn't work that way --- there really wasn't a reason to add anything.

We have been treating this cancer as an allergy for a month or more. It really didn't start looking like anything else until about a month ago. Now - it is aggresively moving across the lower part of his nose. No sign of invasion into the nasal - although part of the nose is pretty much disfigured.

I was wondering if anyone has learned anything new they would try if they had to do it again or if there is anything you have since learned that you could pass on to me.

Thanks so much.


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Sushiboofay,

I am very sorry to hear your dog has been diagnosed with this. I unfortunately have a ton of experience with this type of cancer as well as the treatments available for it. I actually have a lot to say and would love to help. If you email me privately I would like to give you my phone number so we can talk. [email protected]

Jackie


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## proofpawsitive (Aug 16, 2008)

Hi, 
My beloved golden, Dylan had SCC and if you email me privately, i would love to tell you our experiences, treatments, and outcomes. Dylan was just short of 12 when he was diagnosed,too. I'm here for you if need anything.
Sue


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## proofpawsitive (Aug 16, 2008)

Hi, it's Sue again, I forgot my email
[email protected]


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

I am going to go into a lot of detail, but just remember there is a light at the end of this story! 
I received a call after the surgery. The doctor had told me that the tumor had grown back in his nose further back than what she thought, but he was eating and drinking. Well, I picked him the next day. It was a very different look! I was prepared for the part where he was missing his nose and just had a nose hole, but I was not prepared for the nose bleeding. I felt so awful when I saw that. What had I done? I slowly started to get okay with it and 1 day later the bleeding stopped. He started to get better, but he absolutely did not like wearing the e-collar all the time. 
It was nice having a little relief from the stress. I had found myself before the surgery looking in his nose at least 5 times a day, trying to determine how fast it was growing. I was also worrying throughout the day if he would have a nose bleed and I was not there to do anything about it.
They were to call with the pathology about a week later. I had not heard from them, so that Monday, I called. Devastating news, the margins were not clear! My heart was broken. My husband I talked it over. Pez had been through so much. Financially, it was straining, but we agreed given his good recover over the one week and with his great spirit, Pez could make it through a second surgery. 
As an aside, we got Chinese food the following day and always feed Pez the cookies, like the fortunes were his. The last one I gave him said something about everyone is rooting for you. I felt then, everything would turn out okay for him. It is still posted on my refrigerator.
So, that Thursday, we took him in again. The vet asked how aggressive she could be. I told her as aggressive as she could. My husband said "let's put it this way, this is his last chance". 
I got the call that night from the vet after his surgery; he woke up, a little more slowly than last time. He ate and drank a little.
The following evening, I went to pick him up. The vet came out this time, before bringing out Pez. She stated that he will look really different. She had to remove the palette bone and his front teeth on the top. I don't know if I really wasn't listening or just wanted to see him, but I did not fully look at him until taking him home. He looked incredibly different and I did not feel fully prepared. He had an under bite to go along with his nose hole.
He ate and drank fine that evening. But, he had a horrible night. I really thought he was not going to make it through the night. He was restless, panting uncontrollably. His whole body was hot and contorting. 
I called the ER vets, and they could not help me without seeing him. I called my mother in law, a nurse. She told me to give him a little more pain medicine and watch him. Also, I was to call the vet's office in the morning. 
So I called the vet and got additional pain meds. A few days later it seemed as if he was turning the corner regarding the pain. But, it was not over yet. He stated to have a lot of mucus discharge. It appeared he had an infection. He was put on another antibiotic. 
The following day I got the call I had been waiting for, the pathology results. The margins were clear this time. Hooray!!!
But, we were still dealing with the infection. We went to our local vet the following week, because the antibiotics did not appear to be working. They cleaned out his nose hole and took out some of the dissolvable stitches. The vet told me it may take another few cleanings to get rid of the infection.
The following week we were back. The infection was getting a little better, but was definitely still there. And we had just run out of antibiotics. The vet cleaned out his nose again and took out all the stitches he could find. He thought that the stitches were causing the scabs to hold on, and behind the scabs the infection was festering. He thought he would be okay without any more antibiotics.
He was right! That last cleaning did the trick! No more infection.
He and we have been through a lot to get to where we are. Pez is now his happy, go lucky self. Again he can eat and drink fine. He even chews on bones. He can't play with our Dane well, because he can't clamp on toys to play tug. He still has some stitches where the teeth were removed. He also gets a collection of dried mucus at the top of the nose hole, like a boogie.
This week it has been warm, so he got to go to the dog park every day. He loves it! You have to remember he is 12 years old and has been through all of this. He is still spry. On Monday he was trotting around. On Tuesday, he was trying to hump another dog. And yesterday, he picked up a ball and had some people throw it for him. He was jumping around like a puppy and barking at him. It was great to watch! I had a smile on my face from ear to ear.
Thank you for allowing me to tell you the final chapters of our story. I have been meaning to tell it, but I have not gotten back in to write it.


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## labmommy (Jan 3, 2011)

I was eager to read all of these posts. My beloved yellow Lab, Cooper, who is 7, was diagnosed with SCC in November the day after Thanksgiving. We have moved very quickly trying to fight this disease. We found a tumor the size of a pea in his left nostril. It was removed and the histology report confirmed it was squamous cell carcinoma. Cooper then had a chest x-ray that was clean. We've had a CT scan that reported the vet removed all of the tumor and recommended chemo as our next step. We are to begin chemo (cytoxan 3 times a week and piroxicam 5 times a week) tomorrow. After only a month, I am worried that the tumor has already returned. Our vet is going to touch base with the oncologist again regarding the possibility of the tumor already coming back. 

You would never know Cooper has cancer. He doesn't act any differently and it is breaking my heart and my husband's that we can't do more for him. 

I would love to hear if anyone else has used cytoxan.

Thank you!!!!
Carrie


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## Blues Mommy (Jan 4, 2011)

Hi, I have a 11 year old Golden named Blue who has just been diagonised with Squamous Cell Carcinoma in his nose. After he was sneezing and occasional nose bleeds, i took him into the doctor. They were unsure if it was fungal or SCC, so they took a bioposy of the tumor. Just got the call today it was an SCC.
It covers both nostrils and has been growing pretty fast.
I am reading all the posts on this site.

I love my Blue Boy and hate that this is happening to him. All the sites i have read, if i do the chemo, i am seeing it returns within a year... I am so distraught that I am losing my baby to this cancer that is very rare in dogs. Any helpful bits of information from pet owners that have gone thru this would be helpful!

Thank you,


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Sorry to hear your news. Sending lots of love and positive vibes to you and Erik.


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

Labmommy and Blues Mommy,

My heart goes out to you. I remember how difficult it was for me when I was at where you were at.

Pez is almost a year out from his surgery. Although he looks different without a nose, he is healthly and happy, especially for a 12 1/2 year old guy.

The chemo I had for Pez was a carboplatin with the oral medication of piroxicam. We did 2 treatments before it was determined it was not working. We were left with the options of removing his nose or living out the rest of his life with cancer. After the surgery, he did not need chemo. The doctor that did the surgery was agressive in the removal and the first time she did not get it all.

Even though at first we did not want to do the nose removal, I am now glad we did. Pez can eat, drink, smell and play well. There are a few draw backs to him not having a nose. However, other than old age nothing is really slowing him down.

Having the peace of mind that the cancer is gone, makes it worth the journey we went through and anything I can do to help other dog mom's I am happy to share and provide support.

Please contact me if you need any more information on Pez's journey at [email protected].

Good luck to you both.

Krissy


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Labmommy and Blues Mommy,

I am so sorry to hear that your dogs have been diagnosed with this. My dog Bremen had it as well, but his was in his sinus. We did everything we could to try and save him and as ugly as it sounds, the reality of this type of cancer is that it is very aggressive and odds are not good for beating it. I will never know if we had been more aggressive in the treatment if it would have made a difference, but we were pretty aggressive. Each situation, family, and dog are different and what to do about this cancer is a very personal decision. I sometimes wish I had hit the cancer with all the treatments in close proximity of time and maybe that would have made the difference. As soon as we could, we did a fairly aggressive surgery to remove the tumor from his skull. The surgeon removed as much as possible, being limited by how far back in the head they could go because of his brain. We discussed removing his eye, and as traumatic as that sounds, we actually met a dog whose eye had been removed (because of SCC in the jaw) and the dog was totally fine 5 years after the diagnoses. Bremen did not end up losing his eye. After the surgery we started mitoxantrone via IV and carboplatin (alternating treatments). We also did the prioxicam, 10 mg per day. He handled the chemo very well and we gave him anti-nausea drugs as necessary. He played and walked and walked, still loving life. He too seemed totally healthy until about 3 months from the end. He started to decline and the last 2 weeks were devastating. Going back in time, after about 2 months after surgery and chemo, we got the devastating news that the cancer was back. We decided to do a full course of radiation (I wish we had done the surgery, radiation and chemo all together, I believe that might have made a difference) anyway, we did the radiation 2 months later and it might have slowed it down, but it still did not stop it. We then treated the pain and controlled his quality of life for the following 4 months or so. When all was said and done, we had tried many of the treatments available (some I have not mentioned, I could go on for a couple hours here) and we got another 9 months with our sweet angel. I will be honest, it was extremely difficult and I never knew how devastating cancer was on so many levels until my dog had it. You both love your dogs or you would not be here looking for support. No matter what the outcome of your dogs cancer, you have to know that is the best you can do for your dogs. Fight for what is the best thing for your dog, if it is managing pain and letting him go as peacefully as possible or if it is doing everything you can to stop the cancer. You know your unique situation and you will make an educated decision with your dogs best interest in mind. You cant go wrong with that. You may not be able to control the outcome but you can guide the process. You will give your dog lots of love and comfort along the way no matter what you chose; and that is the best thing you can do. If you have any questions, I am here. If you need to talk for emotional support, I am here. 

Jackie


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## labmommy (Jan 3, 2011)

Thank you so much for your advice and thoughts. We visited the vet yesterday. The tumor that we removed a little over 6 weeks ago is coming back already. We were supposed to start chemo, but now the vet feels radiation would be better. So, we put the chemo on hold to start radiation hopefully very soon. Unfortunately, the nearest oncology center is 4 hours away. But my husband and I are determined to save Cooper. We are upset we could start the chemo sooner, but there was little we could do about it due to other meds Cooper had to be weened off of before starting the chemo. 

The most frustrating part is waiting for a call back from the oncology centers. They have to speak to the vet, not me, and I am so irritated that they don't return calls within 24 hours. 

Luckily, Cooper has not been effected by this. He acts like his normal, silly self while he plays with his sister and barks at cats. 

Again, thank you for help. I'll keep Cooper's progress posted.


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## Blues Mommy (Jan 4, 2011)

Thank you guys for responding. I contacted the oncologist. THey want $225 USD just for a consultation and then anywhere from $2000-2500 to proceed with any of the different options. I love my Blue boy, but I just cant afford that kind of money, which really sucks!!! My regular vet has suggested that they go in and debulk the growth that has blocked his nostrils (which would only cost about $350). She said that will allow him to breath again, which he is struggling and now pretty much breathing out his mouth. However, as fast as these tumors grow, they will probably be back in 2-3 months. 
I know it's not the best resolution, but hopefully it will allow us to have more time together. 

I am fortunate i have had 11 years with him and he knows he has been loved and given a better life (as he was rescued from an abusive family)..
Just sucks that I am not wealthy enough to save his life


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

11 years is a very long time and you are very lucky to have had him that long. It is still hard to accept though, I understand because my dog seemed young and he was 10 when he was diagnosed. I was very lucky that he lived most of his life and was healthy most of his life, but it was still hard. I met a lot of people whose dogs were anywhere from 3-6 years old when they were diagnosed with terminal cancers. So while it is hard to accept, at least you and I had the benefit of having our dogs for almost their entire life span.

You may not know about this fund, but it is available for people who want to seek treatment for their dogs but cannot afford the overwhelming expenses. Check it out in case it might be helpful for you. Fight Canine Cancer for those who cannot afford treatment It is called the Magic Bullet Fund.


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Lab Mommy,

I cannot imagine how hard that must be not being able to speak to the oncologist and having to go through the vet. I had a completely different experience and I did not know how lucky I was. Do you live in a rural area?

I am sorry to hear it has come back. I know how devestaing it is to get that news. If you plan to do radiation and chemo, my advice would be to do it as close together as is possible. Of course when they are on so many other things, you might have to wait a little while, but in everything I learned, chemo and radiation amplify the effects of each other when done together and thus can be more effective when done together.

Please do keep us posted. I hope the radiation goes well. Make sure you get pain killers for the radiation, I have heard from humans that have received radiation that it is very painful so it should be controlled with pain killers.


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Lab Mommy,

Another thought, if your dog's tumor is in the nose, I assume it is in the soft tissue? I don't know if they have access to a local chemo called Cisplatin, but it was not a great option for me (although we did use it too) but since Bremen's cancer was going through his bone, it is not very vascular and does not work that well. For soft tissue, from what I understand Cisplatin is most effective. I had another dog with cancer (different kind of cancer) at the same time as Bremen, but it was a tumor in his soft tissue. We removed it surgically and inserted the Cisplatin beads in the surgery site. Then we did radiation on top of that. It was very effective and he is now here with me, healthy, 1.5 years later. Of course, it was not as aggressive of a cancer, but I really belive that doing the Cisplatin made a big difference in curing him. One benifit of Cisplatin, since it is local, they do not have the side effects of chemo. Another benifit is that it targets the tumor directly. It is also a one time procedure. Talk to your vet about it, I hope this is something that is available to you. Good luck.

Jackie


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Lab Mommy,

I found this article about a horse that had squamous cell carcinoma and they treated him with Cisplatin beads. I have not read it yet but I thought it might be helpful.

Cisplatin Beads to cure Squamous Cell Carcinoma in horses. A happy ending for Aponi! | Horse and Man


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Just finshed reading it. At the end they talk about treating dogs and cats with Cisplatin too. Very good article.


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## labmommy (Jan 3, 2011)

A good article! Thank you for sharing! Cooper's tumor is in the soft tissue. It is located in the inner corner of his nose just tucked away so you can't see it unless you are looking for it.

Today the news was not good to start. The vet spoke to the oncology department at a major university with a veterinary oncology department. Both he and the other vet we saw who did the CT scan have sent patients there. They said with radiation, Cooper had 4 months left. Without the chemo, he has less than 4 months. I was devastated. He said he'd seek a second opinion and did. 

Another university said they would not perform radiation. They would do radical surgery, remove the tumor, a bit more around it, and the lymph nodes around/under the jaw. They'd test for cancerous cells. If none, they have had success with no other treatment needed and they expect it to prolong his life several more years. If they found cancerous cells, he'd receive chemo every three weeks with the time frame depending on what they found. It would prolong his life 2-3 years. Either way, Cooper would live almost to his normal expected life span.

They can see us Monday, do surgery Tuesday, and we can have Cooper back home Wednesday. 

My husband and I are discussing it tonight. We want to everything for our boy. We don't have children. Our dogs are our babies. We'll call the vet tonight with a few more questions and our decision. Thank you for your advice and help.

Carrie


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## labmommy (Jan 3, 2011)

The vet sent us photos of what Cooper's face could look like after the surgery. We have decided we just can't do that. However, we are open to other possibilities and treatments. So, we are headed to the university on Monday for a consult. Things are not looking good. We want Cooper around as long as possible, but we don't want to be selfish. We want his life to be happy and of good quality. I did send our vet the article posted and asked him to take a look at it. 

We'll keep you posted.

Carrie


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## Blues Mommy (Jan 4, 2011)

OMG... thank you so much for posting the article about the horses!!!! The Equine Center in Virginia that did this study is literally right down the road from me. I am going to contact them tomorrow and get more information. 
Maybe they would be willing to do the surgery for their studies!!!! Or my vet can contact them for more information, since i was going to have them do the debulking anyways.. maybe they can put these "beads" in after the debulking.. Please say a prayer!!! OMG!! Thank you so much for posting this.


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## Sushiboofay (Mar 10, 2010)

Blues Mommy:

Have you checked into Care Credit? It is a type of credit used specifically for animal care. CareCredit® Veterinary Financing for Pet Care, Pet Surgery, Vaccinations & Other Veterinary Medicine Procedures


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Blues Mommy,

I am glad this was so helpful. Definitely don't get hopeless because of money, know that there are tons of options. And you are right, they are willing to do things cheaper and possibly free for studies. In fact I took part in some studies and got some discounts. There are other ways to get discouts too. It is just about knowing what is available. I also live in VA and had my dogs treated in VA. You should contact me via my email so I can share more info.

Oh and if debulking means they are doing some surgery, absolutely get them to put in the beads while they are in there. That is they way it is the cheapest because you don't have to pay to have them implanted if they are opening it up anyway. It might be hard for you to get the Cisplatin, if I remember correctly they were being distributed to only some vets and I belive it was because it was part of a study. If you contact Dr. Beck at the Hope Center in Vienna, VA then she should be able to help you with getting the beads. http://www.hopecenter.com/SpecialtyDepartments/Oncology/Staff/tabid/155/Default.aspx Which vets do you go to?

Jackie


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Lab Mommy,

That is what I mean, it is such a personal decision, regarding how to treat the cancer. My best advice to you would be to not only look at pictures but try to talk to some people who have had that type of surgery. I had decided I was not going to remove part of Bremen's head and his eye. I had decided to do something less aggressive because it was so upsetting to think of how barbaric that sounded. But then I met this really happy dog who had part of her jaw and one eye removed and the bone all around the eye. She had SCC also. It never came back. This did not happen with Bremen, I did lose him, but the surgery was probaly the easiest part of his treatments and he was playing the next day, he did not care that the top of his head had been cut back. But each case is different. I am not for or against surgery, and I remember deciding whether or not I could do that to my dog or see him that way was the hardest part of the experience. That is why it was so helpful to see a real life example and talk to the owners and see how the dog behaved. This really helped me understand how it would affect him and helped me make the best decision for my dog. 

Oh also, while SCC is a very aggressive cancer that often is not curable, try not to worry too much about the guesses vets through at you as to how much time he has left. They can only tell you averages, and that may be totally different than what ends up happening. I worried so much when I was told I had 2-3 months left with Bremen by the first oncologist I saw. I did end up seeing a few others and each one said something a little different. I worried so much that I found it hard to enjoy having him around still. You cannot control when you will lose your dog so try not to worry. Bremen ended up hanging in there for another 9 months and when I turned off the worry (easier said than done, I know) but the times I was able to not worry we had the best times together. I will never know if we extended his life by fighting the cancer or if he would have only had 9 months anyway. But we did try and we also made sure that we maintained his quality of life. I can look back now and feel that we made all the right decisions for him. I have no regrets and I know that even though he was ill, I made sure anything we did, did not hurt the quality of his life. I am sure that this will bring you peace too whenever it is time to say goodbye. And although the prognoses is bad, there are dogs that have been cured. So try to enjoy your time with your pup. And you can't go wrong with your approach, to have his best intrest in mind. It is not easy to make these decisions but you will make the right ones.

Jackie


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## labmommy (Jan 3, 2011)

Jackie - thank you so much for your words. We fretted back and forth last night about what to do. Our biggest concern was quality of life. We are looking at all possibilities, but we want to do what's best for Cooper. He currently is not in any pain and is truly the happiest dog you have ever met. With the surgery, they would basically remove the entire tip of his nose (all that soft tissue). We just don't know if that is truly the best thing to do. There are other issues after surgery to deal with, so we'll see. 

We have an appointment to see the oncologist Monday morning. We'll see if Cooper's cancer, which seem to have caught early, can possibly be removed without disfiguring him so much.

I am so happy to have found this forum and to have a chance to tell about our experience through words.

Carrie


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## Zayna (Apr 19, 2009)

just wanted to say im so sorry for what you are going through. You sound like wonderful caring owners who will do the best you can for your dog.
Wish there will more like you. will keep everything crossed for your boy xx


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## vegchowfun (Nov 10, 2009)

Labmommy,

I was in your shoes a little over 1 year ago. It is a very hard time trying to get answers and make decisions. Pez's tumor was also in his nose. We were told surgery to remove his nose or chemo. They said with the tumor being in the nostril, radiation would not work. 

We tried chemo first, because we did not want to have his nose removed. Since his tumor was visible, we could keep and eye on it and see if it continued to grow while he was getting the chemo. The chemo did not work and we could recognize this after 2 treatments, so I felt I had no other choice, but to have his nose removed. 

Him without a nose was a big adjustment, but he is happy and healthy now. He can still smell and that was my biggest concern before the surgery. Even though he looks different, he is still the same baby. If we would have had his surgery from the beginning we probably would have been able to save more of his nose and his teeth, but I am okay with the decision we made. We tried the chemo, and although it did not work, I am glad I gave him that chance because it worked for others.

I hope your vets give you the best options possible. Keep us posted and good luck!

Krissy


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## lovemydogs7 (Aug 7, 2009)

Blues Mommy and Lab Mommy,

I hope you guys are doing okay and hanging in there. I know the decision process is really tough. 

Blues Mommy,

Did you get any info about Cisplatin?

Jackie


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## labmommy (Jan 3, 2011)

We've finally returned from our trip to the university. Our vet there was the head of oncology and was absolutley wonderful. They ran another CT. The cancer has not spread any where else. His tumor is approximately 3 cm long and in in his nose only. However, to remove the cancer completely, they'd still have to remove the soft tissue of his nose. His SCC showed a high mitotic rate which means it is more likely to spread than other SCCs. We did ask about the beads. They are keeping the tumors away but not treating the cancer, so it wasn't an option for us.

Cooper is going to have chemo instead to help control the cancer and prevent it from spreading further. He will have a carboplatin once every 3 weeks for at least 6 treatments. He must also remain on Deramaxx for the rest of his life. The treatment is not a cure but palliative therapy. The cancer is stll stage 1, and we did catch it early. Our first chemo treatment in Monday.

Cooper remains to be in great spirits and his normal self. The tumor is not bothering him in any way or interferring with his breathing. Altough this isn't a cure, we are happy to live with our sweet boy. 

Thank you to everyone who posted on the forum topic. It has been so helpful to us. We'll keep writing about Cooper's progress.


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## labmommy (Jan 3, 2011)

I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but I wanted to give an update on our sweet boy Cooper. He's had two rounds of chemo and is doing GREAT! The tumor is still there of course, but he's handling the meds very well. We are going for our third round next week. We've learned the patterns of his side effects and are able to deal with those, the biggest being a loss of appetite on the second and third day after his chemo treatment. He still has nose bleeds on occasion as well. Just wanted to give a little happy news on a Friday!


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## TheTroubleshooter (Oct 11, 2013)

My name is Willem Legerstee, living in Almere the Netherlands and the prod owner of our buddy Jazz 
My 9,5 year old Golden Retriever Jazz was diagnosed with nasal squamous cell carcinomas. It's visible in the right nostril of his nose.
Today,after a CT scan at the vet in Amsterdam, they told me the tumor has a 3,6cm size. There is not mestatizing found in the rest of his body.

I saw a lot of postings on the Pet Owners Community Forum and came across your posting offering you expertise with this kind of cancer and treatments to other people on the forum.

I am very much in doubt what to do.
After talking extensively with my vet today we decided,after the CT scan, to cancel the planned surgery because of another option which I found on the internet. A clinical trial which started in the Netherlands with Palladia.
But tonight,after reading the postings on the Forum I started doubting again if surgery is the best option for my buddy after all.

I have the following options to consider:

Surgery

My vet says he has to remove quite a large part of the black part of the nose and remove the tumor inside.
He is convinced the can sort of reconstruct the outside of the nose. But he warned me that the change of recurrence of the tumor is high with these kind of tumors.

But by removing the tumor and therefore the blockage in his nose gives the dog at least a 9 months "normal" life.

Doing nothing will probably lead to death after 3 months.

Radiation

That's something we definitely don't want him to experience.
Because he needs to have anesthesia each time (21 times) we dob;t want to consider this doing to him.


Palladia drug therapy

This seemed this afternoon a good alternative.No deformity due to the surgery but we don't know what 6 weeks of trial will bring.
Maybe after 6 weeks the tumor is still there and the drug didn't work.Or worse, the tumor comes back more aggressively once the treatment is stopped.
And then we have to go the surgery after all,but now 6 weeks later.

So tonight we made the decision to go for surgery.

But I really would like to have your opinion on my case.
Because you have a lot of experience with this type of cancer and the treatments available.

I would really appreciate it if you could give your advise/guidance.


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