# Strange Showing Practices



## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Well my first show on Sunday was fun! I quite enjoyed it but some things I found rather disturbing, like dogs that were doing as they were told because they were scared of getting walloped, dogs left in crates all day apart from when they were in the ring, and dogs getting a slap for flying their tail even when not in the ring. 

The worst had to be the pups with their ears glued together and with weights pulling the tips over!?! What's that about? I can't understand why they are judged on that sort of ear when clearly that is not how they lie naturally until they are mature and even then it's not the norm??? 

And why can't the tail fly? I don't understand that, if that's how the majority of dogs tail lie then surely that should be the standard to go by? Why have a standard that dogs have to be trained to follow?


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

ajshep1984 said:


> Well my first show on Sunday was fun! I quite enjoyed it but some things I found rather disturbing, like dogs that were doing as they were told because they were scared of getting walloped, dogs left in crates all day apart from when they were in the ring, and dogs getting a slap for flying their tail even when not in the ring.
> 
> The worst had to be the pups with their ears glued together and with weights pulling the tips over!?! What's that about? I can't understand why they are judged on that sort of ear when clearly that is not how they lie naturally until they are mature and even then it's not the norm???
> 
> And why can't the tail fly? I don't understand that, if that's how the majority of dogs tail lie then surely that should be the standard to go by? Why have a standard that dogs have to be trained to follow?


you have a lot to learn lol that is only the tip of the iceberg


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## Puppy Love (Jan 10, 2008)

Enlighten us Tashi - this is all quite new to me too, what else goes on........

Puppy Love


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

do the dogs really get slapped???


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

mrsdusty said:


> do the dogs really get slapped???


Yeah, I saw a few just walking around and all of a sudden they got a slap on the tail because it was in the air.  Some were checking their dogs in a really aggresive way when they weren't running right and the way people shouted at their dogs was awful. 

And why the hell do people breed dogs with shat temprements!?!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

will put some on tomorrow off to walk battersea now speak tomoz


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

That is terrible!!!!


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

You will see plenty more things Alan - the tail thing I see all the time - I too have tapped<<<<<TAPPED the tail and said tail at the same time in the past to get the dog to stop flagging its tail....
I agree with your concerns - I too feel the same way - the shouting - being too harsh on dogs etc etc.....
Some dogs need the owner to be stern - I know plenty of dogs that are good as gold until they get to a show and then they play up something cronic - but there are limits!!!!


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Debbie said:


> You will see plenty more things Alan - the tail thing I see all the time - I too have tapped<<<<<TAPPED the tail and said tail at the same time in the past to get the dog to stop flagging its tail....
> I agree with your concerns - I too feel the same way - the shouting - being too harsh on dogs etc etc.....
> Some dogs need the owner to be stern - I know plenty of dogs that are good as gold until they get to a show and then they play up something cronic - but there are limits!!!!


Jayjay played up to start with but he calmed down by lunch time and not because I was shouting at or hitting him because I left him to it and rewarded him when he was good, start as you mean to go on I say and if he knows he gets rewarded for being good he's going to be good next time.

What I saw certainly wasn't tapping, one dog even yelped and it wasn't even in the ring. I'd rather Jayjay flew his tail they slap him the way some people were. 

I think the shouting got to me most because of the dogs reaction, they obviously got more than just shouting when they weren't in public.


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

I know what you mean - there are ways and means but some people just do as they please and dont have any regard for their dogs......
Thankfully my friends dont feel the need to act in this manner and neither do I


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Debbie said:


> I know what you mean - there are ways and means but some people just do as they please and dont have any regard for their dogs......


Sadly, it's all too true. Didn't the Kennel Club ban someone for actually hitting a dog in a ring at a champ show last year? He was mad cos the dog hadn't won or something - can't remember the breed.

One thing you can be sure of Alan - neither Sarah nor Emma will ever smack Jayjay no matter how high he flies his tail, nor will we ever glue ears, put weights on ears, or any other nonsense like that. We prefer to either win with the dog as nature intended, or not win at all - which is one of the reasons we like bergies so much!


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

I'm a newbie to dog showing, but am an 'old hat' at horse showing, so not at all suprised by what I see, as horses are as bad if not worse, with supposed childrens ponies being ridden for over 4 hours by adults before a child can be put on them safely. (and even then they aren't safe! ) 

Ponies being doped, feet being trimmed so short they bleed to get the height certificate, tied up in side reins int he stables for hours, the list goes on, so a slap on the tail seems minor in contrast, but still just as unnaceptable to me.

Maybe I'm just too naive.....


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## griffpan (Feb 2, 2008)

we were told when we first started dog showing that we were to soft because we used rewards rather than shouting/slapping but we carried on in our own way  
i was shocked though at the things you see and hear


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

jackson said:


> Maybe I'm just too naive.....


Well I certainly was, seems some people are just in it to win and nothing else. If Jayjay hadn't enjoyed himself I wouldn't have taken him to another. It knackered him out, poor pup went to sleep in the middle of the pathway numerous times!


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

jackson said:


> I'm a newbie to dog showing, but am an 'old hat' at horse showing, so not at all suprised by what I see, as horses are as bad if not worse, with supposed childrens ponies being ridden for over 4 hours by adults before a child can be put on them safely. (and even then they aren't safe! )
> 
> Ponies being doped, feet being trimmed so short they bleed to get the height certificate, tied up in side reins int he stables for hours, the list goes on, so a slap on the tail seems minor in contrast, but still just as unnaceptable to me.
> 
> Maybe I'm just too naive.....


You're not naive - like us, you care more about your animals than you care about winning. It sounds as if horse showing is just as bad as dog showing - how some people can want to win so much they will dope an animal is beyond me, but it happens in dog showing too - there have been dogs poisoned on benches, dogs who have had long coats cut on benches, dogs left on benches on their own for the biggest part of the day, dogs who are given tranquillisers so they won't act up in the ring, dogs who are given caffeine to make them run round the ring faster - and at nearly every show they are calling for people over the tannoy because they have left dogs in cars in hot weather. I would say these kind of owners are in a minority - but they make showing bad for the rest of us, and it's these dreadful practices that put newbies such as yourself and Alan off showing.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> You're not naive - like us, you care more about your animals than you care about winning. It sounds as if horse showing is just as bad as dog showing - how some people can want to win so much they will dope an animal is beyond me, but it happens in dog showing too - there have been dogs poisoned on benches, dogs who have had long coats cut on benches, dogs left on benches on their own for the biggest part of the day, dogs who are given tranquillisers so they won't act up in the ring, dogs who are given caffeine to make them run round the ring faster - and at nearly every show they are calling for people over the tannoy because they have left dogs in cars in hot weather. I would say these kind of owners are in a minority - but they make showing bad for the rest of us, and it's these dreadful practices that put newbies such as yourself and Alan off showing.


I have to say, ringcraft is scary enough, even with a puppy, and the few shows I have been to have had a distinctly cut-throat atmosphere. I used to think people would be much friendlier, but most aren't and I spend most of my time feeling like a numpty, to be honest.

I just get my head down and think of my dogs really.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> but they make showing bad for the rest of us, and it's these dreadful practices that put newbies such as yourself and Alan off showing.


I can't say I was particularly impressed with many of the people there, the ones that were nice were really nice but I think the ones that think like us were few and far between unfortunatly. A lot more dogs were left in the back of vans allday than were taken around with their owners like Jayjay and Neo.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

jackson said:


> I have to say, ringcraft is scary enough, even with a puppy, and the few shows I have been to have had a distinctly cut-throat atmosphere. I used to think people would be much friendlier, but most aren't and I spend most of my time feeling like a numpty, to be honest.
> 
> I just get my head down and think of my dogs really.


We'll have to meet up and feel like numpties together!


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

I actually felt sorry for all the dogs we saw locked up there in vans on sunday

we parked next to a van , there were two labs (that we could see through the half opened door) and at least one other dog barking that we couldnt see ... when we got back to our car later to leave ... the same dogs were still there , looking bored stiff


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

jackson said:


> I used to think people would be much friendlier, but most aren't and I spend most of my time feeling like a numpty, to be honest.





ajshep1984 said:


> We'll have to meet up and feel like numpties together!


I suppose we were lucky in that, except for one or two cocker spaniel shows, we started our showing career in a small breed (ie bergies) where everyone knows everyone else and everyone was helpful. Then when we moved into border collies we were already known on the show scene, plus we were intoduced by some of the prominent people in the breed, so we've always felt welcome and part of it. Jackson, it must be awful to be showing in a breed where people aren't very friendly. Alan, you'll soon feel part of the crowd - numty or not, at least you'll never make the mistake that we did of showing our cocker spaniel on an extending lead ...........


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> I can't say I was particularly impressed with many of the people there, the ones that were nice were really nice but I think the ones that think like us were few and far between unfortunatly. A lot more dogs were left in the back of vans allday than were taken around with their owners like Jayjay and Neo.





Mese said:


> I actually felt sorry for all the dogs we saw locked up there in vans on sunday
> 
> we parked next to a van , there were two labs (that we could see through the half opened door) and at least one other dog barking that we couldnt see ... when we got back to our car later to leave ... the same dogs were still there , looking bored stiff


I agree with you both - I could never leave any dog of mine either in a van or on a bench all day. Our dogs enjoy showing as much as we do - and I'm sure that that is because they are with us all day and they are actually having fun.


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

Unfortunatly some judges will put you down for Jayjay flying his tail, i know i had this last year with Leoti and this year her tail carriage is much better and not through smacking i can tell you , now i do leave leoti in the crate at show as sometimes the shows are to busy for her , Now Val will tell Leoti is a lovely girl and the idea of telling the dog of is the fact you want the dog to move at its best you have so much to learn Alan


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

leoti said:


> Unfortunatly some judges will put you down for Jayjay flying his tail, i know i had this last year with Leoti and this year her tail carriage is much better and not through smacking i can tell you , now i do leave leoti in the crate at show as sometimes the shows are to busy for her , Now Val will tell Leoti is a lovely girl and the idea of telling the dog of is the fact you want the dog to move at its best you have so much to learn Alan


Leoti is certainly a beautiful girl with a fantastic coat - obviously well-looked after and much-loved. We do tell our dogs off if they misbehave, but it's the kind of telling off where you've trained them to understand a word - like "steady!" in a stern voice if they're pacing instead of running properly, or "Think!" if they are flying their tail, or "No!" or "leave!" or any of the other commands they've been trained to understand (all without smacking!) But at this show we witnessed what is not far off cruelty - dogs being smacked so hard for flying a tail (out of the ring) that they yelped, for example . I can't imagine you doing that sort of telling off, Leoti!

As for leaving dogs in crates at shows, I understand what you mean about putting Leoti in her crate if she gets fazed when the show gets busy - their crate is a safe haven for them. We sometimes put our dogs in the crate if they need a rest - now Baggio is seven he likes to go in the crate for a snooze. In fact if we'd put up the crate on Sunday Jayjay would have benefitted from a sleep in it 'cos the poor sausage was so tired he just decided to sleep where he was! - but, like you were doing at Leeds, we would stay with them and wouldn't leave them in the crate, on their own, all day at a show.

I also understand what you mean about being marked down for tail flying - if the tail is not carried correctly it affects the movement of the dog and can make good conformation look a bit iffy. We train ours not to fly their tail by saying "think" and and at the same time just smoothing their tail down with our hand at regular intervals every day. In the ring, we then say "think!" if they fly their tails, and they put their tails down. Most times it works; sometimes it doesn't - but on the times it doesn't work, I'd rather be marked down than resort to smacking them or otherwise hurting them, as I'm sure you would.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

our dogs all stay in crates at the shows basically as we have so many with us on times that it is safer for them to be in their crates instead of all laying taking up space especially at the indoor shows, we quite often have upwards of 6 dogs at a show that is without others that I handle for other people. 

I dont like the 'hard' way that they treat their dogs it is not needed ours respond to a growl if they are playing up but they are mostly shown on treats and toys when showing a pup I usually have a toy in my pocket and that is given to them after they have 'performed' I dont like to see pups that are like robots they are a long time in the ring.

Tails are a big problem in some breeds but with the right training can be sorted. My springer i just have to scowl at in the ring cos if you smile at him he will go daft


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

jackson said:


> I'm a newbie to dog showing, but am an 'old hat' at horse showing, so not at all suprised by what I see, as horses are as bad if not worse, with supposed childrens ponies being ridden for over 4 hours by adults before a child can be put on them safely. (and even then they aren't safe! )
> 
> Ponies being doped, feet being trimmed so short they bleed to get the height certificate, tied up in side reins int he stables for hours, the list goes on, so a slap on the tail seems minor in contrast, but still just as unnaceptable to me.
> 
> Maybe I'm just too naive.....


Yes I've seen this at shows too, and horses being doped I found was quite a common practice!


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

I had a dog doped at a show and unfortunately what they had given him actually contributed to his death at a much later date  as for the horses well the other one I know of is letting the pony get strangles and then measuring it when it is really poor. And of course in my sport showjumping it was 'rapping' where two helpers held the jumping pole and as the horse/pony went over they would lift the pole up and hit the horses legs made them pick them up higher next time  

I was lucky ours were always 'clean' jumpers but that is perhaps because they were never over jumped and so became lazy


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

tashi said:


> I had a dog doped at a show and unfortunately what they had given him actually contributed to his death at a much later date  as for the horses well the other one I know of is letting the pony get strangles and then measuring it when it is really poor. And of course in my sport showjumping it was 'rapping' where two helpers held the jumping pole and as the horse/pony went over they would lift the pole up and hit the horses legs made them pick them up higher next time
> 
> I was lucky ours were always 'clean' jumpers but that is perhaps because they were never over jumped and so became lazy


Yeh some horses just dont like show jumping, some peole cant accept that though unfortunately


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

leoti said:


> Unfortunatly some judges will put you down for Jayjay flying his tail, i know i had this last year with Leoti and this year her tail carriage is much better and not through smacking i can tell you , now i do leave leoti in the crate at show as sometimes the shows are to busy for her , Now Val will tell Leoti is a lovely girl and the idea of telling the dog of is the fact you want the dog to move at its best you have so much to learn Alan


No disrespect but I've got absolutely nothing to learn from what I saw on Sunday. I'd rather lose or not show at all than treat my dog that way. I disagree with Val, it WAS cruelty the way some dogs were treated. If that's what showing is all about I'd rather not be involved.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

ajshep1984 said:


> No disrespect but I've got absolutely nothing to learn from what I saw on Sunday. I'd rather lose or not show at all than treat my dog that way. I disagree with Val, it WAS cruelty the way some dogs were treated. If that's what showing is all about I'd rather not be involved.


dont judge on one show you have yet to go to an all breed show which you will do on Thursday we dont all treat our dogs like that mine as I say are all shown with treats and toys and just a scowl will do if they misbehave as that is not a look that they are used to


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

tashi said:


> dont judge on one show you have yet to go to an all breed show which you will do on Thursday we dont all treat our dogs like that mine as I say are all shown with treats and toys and just a scowl will do if they misbehave as that is not a look that they are used to


I know it's not everyone which is why I'm still going to Bakewell. There were some very nice people there, unfortunatly they seemed to be outnumbered. For the record I am taking Jayjay's crate on Thursday and he will spend time in there if it's best for him or if he's tired but to leave dogs in there all day seems a bit extreme.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

ajshep1984 said:


> I know it's not everyone which is why I'm still going to Bakewell. There were some very nice people there, unfortunatly they seemed to be outnumbered. For the record I am taking Jayjay's crate on Thursday and he will spend time in there if it's best for him or if he's tired but to leave dogs in there all day seems a bit extreme.


just go and try to enjoy and yes I can see that to some the crate will seem extreme ours do spend alot of time in there but they are taken out for walks often for us it just makes it easier with the amount of dogs we take


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

tashi said:


> just go and try to enjoy and yes I can see that to some the crate will seem extreme ours do spend alot of time in there but they are taken out for walks often for us it just makes it easier with the amount of dogs we take


That makes sense but some dogs were in there ALL day, only out to go in the ring and nothing else and were then getting told off for barking, what do people expect them to do!?!


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

I do love showing but when we go we spend most of the time around our own breed ring,Staffords are not harshly handled and I have never seen any handler slap or hit their dog.
We see exhibitors opening bottles of wine etc at the big all breed CH shows,as early as 10 am,most are camping for the weekend and have a great time by all accounts  
Our own breed shows are great,stafford folk on the whole are very friendly and ready to help others.
Same with our own ringcraft clubs,the folk are friendly,knowlegable and will help you,infact we used to have some great handling matches against other clubs.Buffet was put on by the club and raffles etc in aid of SBT Rescue.

Haven't done a show for ages,must get mine back in the ring!


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> I disagree with Val, it WAS cruelty the way some dogs were treated.


Eh? I can't remember saying it wasn't cruel!  We'd never treat our dogs that way!


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> Eh? I can't remember saying it wasn't cruel!  We'd never treat our dogs that way!


You said it was not far from cruelty but I would go one step further and say it WAS animal cruelty! I wasn't suggesting you would treat your dogs that way!


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> You said it was bordering on animal cruelty or something along those lines but I would go one step further and say it WAS animal cruelty! I wasn't suggesting you would treat your dogs that way!


Ah, that's ok then! I understand what you mean now!


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Alan - please dont let this put you off - the show world needs good people like you. Yes there are the numptys at every show - but as you went to a breed show I would wait and go to a couple of other shows before making up your mind. There are plenty of good people out there - plenty who dont do what you saw. It would be a real shame if you packed it in now based on some idiots. You are a good owner and Jayjay will do well in the ring.
Now how can I put it - I dont ignore peoples behaviour if it crosses a line - there are show managers, secretaries etc you can make a complaint to. I am VERY picky about who I speak to etc for a reason - I speak to the nice people and ignore the idiots etc.
For you to give in due to idiots is silly...its like saying you are not going to drive your car due to too many idiots on the road - or you wont join in on the forum due to the idiots who post etc.
I go to many shows and have done for many years - there are nice people and it is few and far between that you will come accross the idiots 
Dont let it put you off -


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

spellweaver said:


> Leoti is certainly a beautiful girl with a fantastic coat - obviously well-looked after and much-loved. We do tell our dogs off if they misbehave, but it's the kind of telling off where you've trained them to understand a word - like "steady!" in a stern voice if they're pacing instead of running properly, or "Think!" if they are flying their tail, or "No!" or "leave!" or any of the other commands they've been trained to understand (all without smacking!) But at this show we witnessed what is not far off cruelty - dogs being smacked so hard for flying a tail (out of the ring) that they yelped, for example . I can't imagine you doing that sort of telling off, Leoti!
> 
> As for leaving dogs in crates at shows, I understand what you mean about putting Leoti in her crate if she gets fazed when the show gets busy - their crate is a safe haven for them.


i would never lay a hand on leoti i do it all by voice , i have seen it at shows and understand were your coming from , i have taught her to carry her tail low by moving slower with her and praising her when she moved with her tail down ,when she raised it i did not praise her ,infact we started all over again yes its took a while but hey hoy she got there and not a smacked involved 

and yes some do glue the ears, as leoti's sister had there ears done , i left leoti's and its not long ago her breeder said she had lovely natural ear carriage so i know i was right not to glue her ears


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## ridgeback05 (Aug 5, 2008)

we are also new to dog shows,with loki being our first show dog and even that was not the plan when we first got him...we have also seen what we think is dogs being treated badly just for being dogs..and sometimes i have to hold back from going up to folk and giving them a shake..no matter how loki behaves in the ring he will always get a huge hug when he comes out from the ring.yes you do get some folk who will always think they & there dogs are better than you and your dog but we have made a couple of very good friends in the very short time we have been showing loki.i do agree with folks using crates as not only does it give owners a little piece of mind to know there dogs are safe but also the dogs themselfs will feel safe and will not get so worked up and feel less stress when in a crate.so alan keep going to the shows and enjoy yourself...just to prove that being nice to your dogs and not giving them a hard time when they play up a little, loki has just returned from the hound show with three 1st ...minor puppy dog...puppy dog and best pup in breed yet at his last show (open show) he played up and paced the whole time and as a was unplaced but he got the same big hug after both shows..sorry this is a bit of a long post and hope i have not bored you all to sleep..


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## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

ridgeback05 said:


> we are also new to dog shows,with loki being our first show dog and even that was not the plan when we first got him...we have also seen what we think is dogs being treated badly just for being dogs..and sometimes i have to hold back from going up to folk and giving them a shake..no matter how loki behaves in the ring he will always get a huge hug when he comes out from the ring.yes you do get some folk who will always think they & there dogs are better than you and your dog but we have made a couple of very good friends in the very short time we have been showing loki.i do agree with folks using crates as not only does it give owners a little piece of mind to know there dogs are safe but also the dogs themselfs will feel safe and will not get so worked up and feel less stress when in a crate.so alan keep going to the shows and enjoy yourself...just to prove that being nice to your dogs and not giving them a hard time when they play up a little, loki has just returned from the hound show with three 1st ...minor puppy dog...puppy dog and best pup in breed yet at his last show (open show) he played up and paced the whole time and as a was unplaced but he got the same big hug after both shows..sorry this is a bit of a long post and hope i have not bored you all to sleep..


well done on the placings , Leoti get a hug and a pat after her time in the ring and it doent matter what placing she has got she has done her best for me what more can i ask


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Debbie said:


> Alan - please dont let this put you off - the show world needs good people like you. Yes there are the numptys at every show - but as you went to a breed show I would wait and go to a couple of other shows before making up your mind. There are plenty of good people out there - plenty who dont do what you saw. It would be a real shame if you packed it in now based on some idiots. You are a good owner and Jayjay will do well in the ring.
> Now how can I put it - I dont ignore peoples behaviour if it crosses a line - there are show managers, secretaries etc you can make a complaint to. I am VERY picky about who I speak to etc for a reason - I speak to the nice people and ignore the idiots etc.For you to give in due to idiots is silly...its like saying you are not going to drive your car due to too many idiots on the road - or you wont join in on the forum due to the idiots who post etc.
> I go to many shows and have done for many years - there are nice people and it is few and far between that you will come accross the idiots
> Dont let it put you off -


you spoke to me lol and what idiot goes to a show in her pjs


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

tashi said:


> you spoke to me lol and what idiot goes to a show in her pjs


 But I didnt know you had ya pj's on till I had spoken to you - too late then wasnt it 
Nah only kidding


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

ajshep1984 said:


> Well I certainly was, seems some people are just in it to win and nothing else. If Jayjay hadn't enjoyed himself I wouldn't have taken him to another. It knackered him out, poor pup went to sleep in the middle of the pathway numerous times!


that right, and some get the right hump if they dont win.
its the dogs i feel for, suck in crates all day, they are not allowed to be a dog.
even heard some people if you dont start winning im get shot of the dog, they dont care some people its all win or nothing.


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

Debbie said:


> Alan - please dont let this put you off - the show world needs good people like you. Yes there are the numptys at every show - but as you went to a breed show I would wait and go to a couple of other shows before making up your mind. There are plenty of good people out there - plenty who dont do what you saw. It would be a real shame if you packed it in now based on some idiots. You are a good owner and Jayjay will do well in the ring.
> Now how can I put it - I dont ignore peoples behaviour if it crosses a line - there are show managers, secretaries etc you can make a complaint to. I am VERY picky about who I speak to etc for a reason - I speak to the nice people and ignore the idiots etc.
> For you to give in due to idiots is silly...its like saying you are not going to drive your car due to too many idiots on the road - or you wont join in on the forum due to the idiots who post etc.
> I go to many shows and have done for many years - there are nice people and it is few and far between that you will come accross the idiots
> Dont let it put you off -


agree there


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

Debbie said:


> Alan - please dont let this put you off


It hasn't put me off yet! I've just entered Driffield & Darlington! 



carol said:


> even heard some people if you dont start winning im get shot of the dog, they dont care some people its all win or nothing.


..........


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

Yayyyyy - Prob see you at Driffield


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

leoti said:


> leoti's sister had there ears done , i left leoti's and its not long ago her breeder said she had lovely natural ear carriage so i know i was right not to glue her ears


Funnily enough the same thing happened to us with Evie - we refused to glue and weight her ears and she has ended up with really expressive, erect ears - right enough they don't tip over at the end, but I'd rather have that than have a pup with weights on her ears.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

ridgeback05 said:


> no matter how loki behaves in the ring he will always get a huge hug when he comes out from the ring.
> 
> loki has just returned from the hound show with three 1st ...minor puppy dog...puppy dog and best pup in breed yet at his last show (open show) he played up and paced the whole time and as a was unplaced but he got the same big hug after both shows..sorry this is a bit of a long post and hope i have not bored you all to sleep..


Heh heh - reminds me of Baggio - he absolutely loves being in the show ring and whether he's got a first or been thrown out, he is convinced he's won best in show - and that's because, like you, we hug and praise him for doing his best no matter how he's done! 

Congratulations to you and loki on your wins!  Well done!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

jackson said:


> I'm a newbie to dog showing, but am an 'old hat' at horse showing, so not at all suprised by what I see, as horses are as bad if not worse, with supposed childrens ponies being ridden for over 4 hours by adults before a child can be put on them safely. (and even then they aren't safe! )
> 
> Ponies being doped, feet being trimmed so short they bleed to get the height certificate, tied up in side reins int he stables for hours, the list goes on, so a slap on the tail seems minor in contrast, but still just as unnaceptable to me.
> 
> Maybe I'm just too naive.....


And that is the tip of the iceberg.. Show jumping horses being rapped or pins in there boots so if they knock a pole it wrecks and they jump it higher... It seems no matter what you get into, be it horses/dogs or cats, or anything else someone somewhere is always going to shock you with there antics.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2008)

Yeh its really sad I can remember going to shows where huge dogs are locked all day in crates that are too small for them etc.. some show people are absoloute .... yeh.. they really dont care about the welfare about their animals.

I hate having a healthy lab who is the only one in the ring that moves well and can ACTUALLY move cause its not to OVERWEIGHT to move.. and getting 3rd to someone with labs that can hardly stand.

grr!!


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi,

I'm shocked, really I am, I haven't done any shows in the UK for a while now as I live in Cyprus, but I do do shows throughout Europe in places like Bulgaria, and I never see dogs being mistreated.

It is perfectly normal and practical to take a crate and let your dog rest in there when you're not practising or in the ring, as you can't leave your dog off-leash at shows at any time, and you can't walk around with him/her on-leash all day  So a crate is a must, show people will always crate train their dogs from young so the dogs at shows are used to being crated and not anxious.

However this slapping, glueing, etc., is just crazy. IMHO if you can't train your dog to show well in the ring without punishment then don't do shows, period.

So yes, I agree with you all its terrible, and if I saw it happen I'd go up and slap the human, for sure 

I did witness something at my last show, two guys with their male dogs doing what was necessary (if you know what I mean) to calm their dogs down before going in to the ring. They gave their dogs a helping hand just outside the arena. they spotted me catching them and just shrugged. I guess I understand why they did it, and I'm not sure this would classify as mistreatment!!! But if I was to do this being a woman, well for sure it would be perverse!

Harley does of course get excited, and of course it happens just as we're about to go in the ring, but he calms down immediately, as soon a I run him in to the ring, flaccid again... thank god!


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## kimpossible (Aug 12, 2008)

The thing that gets me about showing is the way people pick up their dogs when they are putting them on the table. I know terriers etc have strong tails and can be picked up by the tail and lead, but I show lhasa apsos and there is a woman I compete against regularly who picks up her lhasas by the tail. I shudder everytime I see it. Poor wee things.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

kimpossible said:


> The thing that gets me about showing is the way people pick up their dogs when they are putting them on the table. I know terriers etc have strong tails and can be picked up by the tail and lead, but I show lhasa apsos and there is a woman I compete against regularly who picks up her lhasas by the tail. I shudder everytime I see it. Poor wee things.


I agree! I'm sure I read something in one of the dog papers this week that the Kennel Club was going to ban that practice - good job too!


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

ajshep1984 said:


> Well my first show on Sunday was fun! I quite enjoyed it but some things I found rather disturbing, like dogs that were doing as they were told because they were scared of getting walloped, dogs left in crates all day apart from when they were in the ring, and dogs getting a slap for flying their tail even when not in the ring.
> 
> The worst had to be the pups with their ears glued together and with weights pulling the tips over!?! What's that about? I can't understand why they are judged on that sort of ear when clearly that is not how they lie naturally until they are mature and even then it's not the norm???
> 
> And why can't the tail fly? I don't understand that, if that's how the majority of dogs tail lie then surely that should be the standard to go by? Why have a standard that dogs have to be trained to follow?


Yeah,
Bin there seen that and a lot more two, had a few rows also, did plan on showing my young girl, but cannot be arsed now what with the antics of some of the 'human jerks' that I have had the misfortune to stumble upon.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

well all i can say is, i'm totaly shocked..i should'nt be though as i was told these things go on, but i didnt believe it...for once i'm keeping me mouth zipped.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

The thing about the dog show world is that it's no different from the "real" world - you'd think it would be, but it isn't. Just as there are good owners and bad owners, there are good owners of show dogs and and bad owners of show dogs.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2008)

spellweaver said:


> The thing about the dog show world is that it's no different from the "real" world - you'd think it would be, but it isn't. Just as there are good owners and bad owners, there are good owners of show dogs and and bad owners of show dogs.


It still surprises me, I really expected show people to be just good owners, unfortunatly it's not!


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## Debbie (Nov 10, 2007)

spellweaver said:


> The thing about the dog show world is that it's no different from the "real" world - you'd think it would be, but it isn't. Just as there are good owners and bad owners, there are good owners of show dogs and and bad owners of show dogs.


That about sums it up


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