# Grrr..irritating wussy hysterical children and dogs



## Skinnywhippet (May 23, 2013)

Seeing as it's the season of goodwill towards men and all that...but i'm not sure even the bible says specifically that we have to be nice to horrible bratty children 

So i've just had my bro/sis in law over for the afternoon, together with a lot of other family, and my two nieces. The younger is just over a year old and is fine with the dog. The other is coming up five, and is quite frankly an annoying little spoiled primadonna who apart from lots of other affectations is "scared" of the dog. I kept her on the lead (dog not child  ) until everyone had settled down, but i know that the dog is going to at least go over and sniff Elder Niece once i let her off. So possibly foolishly, i asked bro in law whether she'll cope OK if dog approaches her and am told "oh no, there'll probably be a meltdown". So poor old puppygirl has had to spend the whole afternoon in quarantine, super sad and baffled as to what she's done to deserve not being allowed to play with the kids- she LOVES kids and is totally gentle with them.

Is it just me that thinks this is ridiculous? Why on earth encourage your child in this stupid phobia especially when you have a perfect opportunity to reassure her, but tell her firmly not to be silly, with a nice safe gentle pup around. BTW the child has never had any kind of bad experience with a dog, she's just attention seeking. In the same way that she hides behind the sofa for the first 20 minutes after she arrives because she's "scared" and all conversation has to be held through mummy :eek6:

Meanwhile, in our local park they've just installed a skating ramp which has lead to more kids using it. In the latest parish mag there's an announcement that "_there have been reports of children being frightened by dogs, so all dogs must now be on leads when there are children present_". SERIOUSLY. Not HURT by dogs, or you can bet your life we'd all have heard about it, but "frightened". IE, they just don't like them and their rights trump those of dog owners.

What is wrong with everyone? Kids can really benefit from interacting with dogs, since when did they become scary monsters?!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

I blame the Parents.....too much mollycoddling! 

If the child's fear was genuine, then surely they'd welcome your dog getting to know their child (as you say your dog is gentle), so as to help her to overcome this irrational fear.

As for the hiding behind the sofa. I would just totally ignore the child until they came out and stopped being a little attention seeker.


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

I had the same issues with my neice and family. Same age and I had a lab pup under a year old.

I let him out the crate knowing full well he wouldn't hurt her. 

MY house MY rules MY dog. If you do not like MY dog or MY rules then you know where the door is.

He LIVES here! Do you? He has nowhere else to go and just because YOU have a bratty snotty attention seeking bratt doesn't mean im going to lock MY well behaving PUPPY in a crate all day long to keep your bratt happy.

NO THANKS!

IM the wicked witch don't you no ROFL


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

I know what you mean, it is something that has really shocked me since we got Mac. I had an incident with a friend who freaked out when Mac was excited when she arrived. Admittedly he is lively and does still 'mouthe' new people and things but this did not go round well. I (and Mac) was relieved when she left. She won't ever bring her children round or allow them to interact with him since and I feel this is sad because he really is such a loving boy. We have two young children ourselves and having a dog is the best thing for them. They know how to treat other dogs and are not afraid. And they adore the bones of Mac and he them.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

You are far more patient than i am.
It's not even an option in my house,you know i have dogs,you know they love to play and have fuss, don't like it? Then don't come,they live here not you.

It winds me up when people expect you to keep your own dog n your own house away from them and then for you to welcome their kids into your house ,running around making a mess,touching everything,fingerprints everywhere & generally being a pain.
This is one house that wont have it.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

We don't have many children visit so it's not an issue but I agree, my house, my rules. My god daughter was nervous of her gran's dog as it had no training and Molly is so friendly that it was confusing for her but I've done my best to ensure that Molly is good with children.

Reminds me of my recent walk problems where parents bring their children into the only dog off lead field in our area and then bellow at the dog owners that their child is scared. I'd laugh if it wasn't so annoying.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

I have something similar with two of my grandchildren who I don't get to see very often. 

Poppy has some fears, one of them being children she doesn't know (she gets on fine with the three grandchildren who live round the corner, loves to be with them). When we're out she avoids children and will even freeze when she hears them or sees them in front.

So, I have two other grandchildren who visit occasionally who have never had a dog or a cat.

#1 - 18 year old girl, almost 6' tall and well built.

GD - "Eurghhhhhhh, I don't like dogs, keep her away" - and this about a little dog who wont go near her.

Me - "OK, just ignore her, she wont come near you anyway".

#2 = Boy almost 11.

GS - "I want Poppy to play with me".

Me - "She's frightened of children so just leave her alone, she might come to you in her own time".

GS - "But I want Poppy to play with me".

Me - "Just leave her to make her own mind up, the more you try the more she'll keep away".

Ad infinitum for the last 3 years .

Last week:

GS - "I want Poppy to like me".

Me - "You know she's frightened, just leave her alone and if she wants to come to you she will".

GS - "I want to stroke her".

Me - "Leave her, she'll come to you if she wants to".

Poppy is lying on the floor with my young grandaughter who lives round the corner and they get on really well.

GS - getting down on the floor too and creeping nearer to Poppy "I want her to like me". Starts stroking Poppy's side.

Me - "She doesn't like it, you're better leaving her alone as she's frightened".

He continues stroking her.

By now Poppy has backed right up to my legs and is wedged between sofa and my legs, showing the whites of her eyes.

GS - "But I want her to like me, I want to stroke her".

Me - "She's frightened, leave her alone".

Poppy barks at him making him jump and he pulls his hand back.

GS - "SHE BIT ME! SHE BIT ME", going back to his chair, holding his hand.

Me - "Let me see"

GS - "SHE BIT ME"

Me - "Show me where she bit you"

GS - "SHE BIT ME" ............ goes on for about 3 or 4 minutes, you get the picture.

My Daughter to GS - "I've told you about this sort of conversation!"

GS - "She bit me"

Me - "If she's bitten you there will be a mark, now show me where she has bitten you".

GS - sheepishly........... "She didn't bite me".

Freaking little lying toe rag! I had been warning him, Poppy gave a warning (white eyes), yet he still had to push and push until she gave a serious warning. I just hope he doesn't try it with someone else's dog!


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## sbonnett76 (Apr 6, 2010)

Totally blame the parents. OK, so if a child has had a bad experience with a dog, absolutely fair enough, however, it's still down to the parents to help them overcome that on the same way that if one of my dogs needed help to deal with something I would help them. 

I've had people cross the road as I walk towards them with my two rotties and I've had kids squeal and squark if Luther or Roxy has dared to walk past them. Children need to be educated on all sorts of animals, not just dogs. They need to learn the good, bad and the ugly and how to handle and live around animals and the importance around how their nervous behaviour could make things so much worse.


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I think it's perfectly reasonable to put my dogs on a lead if we come across children on a walk


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## Skinnywhippet (May 23, 2013)

Totally agree with all of you guys! 

The only reason I didn't just let my girl loose was because I couldn't face the drama - I was worried that bratgirl might scream at the dog and really scare her - she is only 11 months so still a baby herself really - and also that I couldn't trust my tongue ( and possibly itchy palms) if she did. Happily we only see the child in question maybe twice a year otherwise words would be had! But as it was it really spoiled my day, and I couldn't wait for them to leave so I could have a good play and cuddle with pup to make it up to her.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

Is it possible that the little girl really is just scared? I think the phrase 'irritating wussy hysterical children' is a bit harsh really. I know a certain type of child can be infuriating, but sometimes they really are just scared, as annoying as that is for us. My cousin's kid kept screaming whenever Maggie went near her, which yes, got on my nerves because it upset Maggie and was a horrible noise... but equally, she's just a little girl, who is scared and expressing that fear. 

Personally I'd keep a dog on lead near a child who was not 100% ok with dogs, as that way I could protect my dog as well as the child from being scared.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Alice Childress said:


> Is it possible that the little girl really is just scared? I think the phrase 'irritating wussy hysterical children' is a bit harsh really. I know a certain type of child can be infuriating, but sometimes they really are just scared, as annoying as that is for us. My cousin's kid kept screaming whenever Maggie went near her, which yes, got on my nerves because it upset Maggie and was a horrible noise... but equally, she's just a little girl, who is scared and expressing that fear.
> 
> Personally I'd keep a dog on lead near a child who was not 100% ok with dogs, as that way I could protect my dog as well as the child from being scared.


Exactly. Kids don't need a bad experience to have a fear of something. My nephew went through a phase of being frightened of dogs for no reason at all that anyone could think of. I've got a niece who's frightened of them simply because her big brother (who has been bitten) is.

And if it is a genuine fear it really isn't as simple as "getting over it" unfortunately.


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

My dogs are on a lead when around strangers mainly protecting the dogs not the children . 
I personally am sick of the squeally screamy behaviour and don't understand why kids are treated like glass in case they throw a tantrum or dont get their own way. IMO stating you do not like dogs, saying you would rather not touch or go near them is fine. Screaming and squealling for attention is not ok. 
We have a similar situation that involves bad behaviour. Pushy kids or squealing ones running riot. 
I personally will not allow puppies to be jumping all over kids or the other way around. No biting from anyone and no pushing a dog or a child who feels uncomfortable. Kids need boundaries and so do dogs. 
We have a few people who are not as keen on dogs most have tried really hard to embrace our dogs. Some have been very difficult.


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## ataloss (Dec 26, 2013)

dandogman said:


> I think it's perfectly reasonable to put my dogs on a lead if we come across children on a walk


I agree, but in the original post you'd probably not get the opportunity to take your dogs off again at peak times due to the number of children in the vicinity. I remember a gentlemen I used to bump into in the local woods would find it extremely vexing when _anyone_ asked him to lead up his Weimaraner, especially cyclists


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## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

My nephew who is 15 is scared of Maisie, but not Buddy. Sadly he doesn't visit us often. It is just as traumatic for the dog as well as the child. It's not as simple as asking for the child to adjust but also the dog which can be even trickier. Today on my walk I had a child cuddling Buddy which was nice, but she chased Maisie who barked at her. Maisie is not good with young kids. The parent corrected the child and I leashed Maisie. There are some sensible and responsible people out there.


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

I walk Meg on a path that runs behind railings of a school playground, sometimes when the kids are out playing, they run along the fence making stupid 'growling' noises, and sometimes Meg will woof at them.. which I stop!
Last week I stopped and told them off, I said if they teased a dog like that on the street then it would probably go for them, so its not a great idea!!
They all turned and ran the other way, but it bothered me that all of these kids parents had obviously never taught their child to not do this sort of thing....madness!!


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2013)

Lot of kid negativity heere


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## freckles (May 8, 2008)

Alice Childress said:


> Is it possible that the little girl really is just scared? I think the phrase 'irritating wussy hysterical children' is a bit harsh really. I know a certain type of child can be infuriating, but sometimes they really are just scared, as annoying as that is for us. My cousin's kid kept screaming whenever Maggie went near her, which yes, got on my nerves because it upset Maggie and was a horrible noise... but equally, she's just a little girl, who is scared and expressing that fear.
> 
> Personally I'd keep a dog on lead near a child who was not 100% ok with dogs, as that way I could protect my dog as well as the child from being scared.


Agreed.... the child is 5!! just 5, and could be scared, Im 48 and scared of spiders and heights, was I mollicoddled NO!... its just the way I am,

And the hiding behind the sofa, again shes a child, my daughter used to be very shy, and would struggle to talk to other people (cant shut her up now)..

Im sure its didnt kill you dog to be locked up for one day,  I would of put mine away in your situation (I have a 10 stone very chilled mastine and a hyper puppy)

yes, your house, your rules, but one day you might end up with no one wanting to visit, I love my pets, but sometimes family, children (do you have any kids?) need to come first.. and Im sure you dog wont be traumatised for the rest of its life for being kept away...

yes the child does need to get used to dogs, maybe in a year or 2, she might be different, but a little understanding wont hurt...


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

ataloss said:


> I agree, but in the original post you'd probably not get the opportunity to take your dogs off again at peak times due to the number of children in the vicinity. I remember a gentlemen I used to bump into in the local woods would find it extremely vexing when _anyone_ asked him to lead up his Weimaraner, especially cyclists


But walks on lead don't have to be the end of the world by any means.


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

LurcherOwner said:


> Lot of kid negativity heere


Well it is a dog chat thread, ... you might get a lot of dog negativity on a child/parent forum ;D


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Dogless said:


> But walks on lead don't have to be the end of the world by any means.


Exactly! The Terrors often go on flexis/short leads when in busy areas (like today down a large park) kids on new bikes, toys out, familys, TONS of dogs...everyone under the sun! We just flexi them and walked them to the quiet part of the field where they had a BLAST then flexied them up until we got to the car park where we put them on short leads.

You could try telling them lead = end of the world, but they are too deep in sleep from a great day to listen


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

LurcherOwner said:


> Lot of kid negativity heere


Not negative....I have kids and I wouldnt feed their fear by pandering to them being afraid of a well behaved dog. I would take advantage of having a nice tempered dog to hand, who I could help them with to overcome their fears. Sure it could take several visits for the child to venture from my lap (I wouldnt force it) but to want the dogs owner to restrict the dog in their own home would not be acceptable for me.


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## ataloss (Dec 26, 2013)

Dogless said:


> But walks on lead don't have to be the end of the world by any means.


I didn't say it was. Although my dog is far more satisfied with an off-lead walk as he is fearful about being on lead around dogs.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

One of my nieces was "scared" of dogs - but only when anyone was looking. 
Otherwise, she was absolutely fine. I advised her mum not to fuss her and eventually my niece stopped playing the game. She loves dogs now.

I walk Jack on lead anyway, but if there are kids close by I shorten his flexi - partly for the kids' safety and partly for Jacks.

If he were able to go off lead, then I would recall him and leash him if there were kids about. Better safe than sorry.

I tend to avoid walking where there are lots of people, anyway.

My nephew is 2 and a whirling dervish, with few boundaries, so we declined visiting the in-laws Christmas Day, thank you  Not for the dog's benefit as we would have left him at home, but for ours


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

ataloss said:


> I didn't say it was. Although my dog is far more satisfied with an off-lead walk as he is fearful about being on lead around dogs.


You just made it sound like a negative that's all. My one dog is also fearful and I couldn't have him in that situation in a busy park either. I think that, rather than become frustrated, I'd maybe do a street walk or go somewhere quieter if I knew that during peak times the park would be a bit of a mare.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I have a young dog that is fascinated by children. If she hears their voices she wants to find them. When we first bought her home my friend bought her grandchildren over to see the fluffy puppy. The little boy who is five and comes from Australia, lives with a ridgeback at home. He has been taught how to behave around dogs and knew to be gentle and quiet. My little nine week old puppy sat down beside him on the step and shuffled up close and was so gentle and sweet it was wonderful to see. However she is now an enormous lively young dog who could flatten a child without a thought but without any malice. If I spot a child, she's on the lead just for safety, not every child is like my friends dog savvy grandchild. 
I don't have grandchildren, so I'm not in the position of having children visit. If any did then parents and child would be told about Isla, her age, her enthusiasm for people and children and how they should behave if they are not familiar with dogs. If it was all too much for a child then I would make allowances, but I wouldn't be prepared to shut my dog away all day if the child and parents were also not prepared to make allowances. Actually, have to say, glad I don't have children visiting.


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

I think a lot of dog owners who don't have children feel rather negatively towards parents of children who don't act as responsibly towards our dogs and our feelings as we try to do to them and their children.

I was very rudely screamed at by a parent recently to keep my dog away from her child as she was scared of dogs. I'm afraid I refused to wade through the river and pointed out that my dog had stopped and waited to go back on his lead when he saw children and was walking calmly by my side and that maybe she could remove the child from sitting in the middle of the bridge. I also pointed out when we'd passed the group that getting the small children to stand to one side of the bridge while someone walked their dog past on the other side was sensible - but then running across the bridge waving sticks as the dog went past could have resulted in a nasty injury if I wasn't a good enough owner at anticipating idiocy and keeping my dog safe.

I don't hate children but I do hate people with no manners who allow their children to act like total brats and make no attempt to keep them under control around me (and not just when I've got my dog with me). When I was a child I was expected to show some respect for other people and for animals and not to act like the world revolved round me at all times.


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## ataloss (Dec 26, 2013)

Dogless said:


> You just made it sound like a negative that's all. My one dog is also fearful and I couldn't have him in that situation in a busy park either. I think that, rather than become frustrated, I'd maybe do a street walk or go somewhere quieter if I knew that during peak times the park would be a bit of a mare.


 Or maybe you just read it negatively. I was merely using the context in the original post to say that putting your dog on when kids are nearby in that situation may mean you don't get to take it off again. It's not like walking in the countryside. As long as a dog is being walked that's all that matters, but there are many dog owners who won't put their dog on lead for anyone, like in the example I used.

I don't walk my dog in parks or at peak times, we have plenty of alternatives :thumbsup:


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

I was terrified of dogs when I was a child, to the point where if I saw one, I'd knock on a neighbours door to ask if they'd take me home. (It was back in the 50s and kids were allowed out on their own then, neighbours were nice and helpful, and dogs roamed the streets at will)

How did my parents deal with it? There was no mollycoddling, when they realised my fear was real, they bought me a puppy! After a bit of reluctance on my side, the little ball of fluff with soppy eyes won me over and that was the start of my love affair with dogs.

What I'm trying to say is that some children really are scared, it's knowing when it's a real fear or just a way to get attention.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

freckles said:


> Agreed.... the child is 5!! just 5, and could be scared, Im 48 and scared of spiders and heights, was I mollicoddled NO!... its just the way I am,


I didn't even notice that the child was only 5.



chichi said:


> Not negative....I have kids and I wouldnt feed their fear by pandering to them being afraid of a well behaved dog.


Supporting a child while respecting their fears is not pandering to them though. In my mind it is similar to dogs, when they go through a fear stage, if you force them to confront beyond their comfort level, their fear you can be increased. Whereas if you act casually, but respect the dogs response, letting them come closer in their own time, they gain confidence.

There doesn't have to be any mollycoddling involved. There is nothing wrong with trying to understand where the child is coming from, just as we would when our dogs have a reaction to something that we do not understand.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

My sister was like this with my eldest niece, and is with her other daughter. My eldest niece is now 3 and was an absolute PAIN on Christmas eve when we went up to stay the night at my parents. I'd wanted to see them at Christmas and it was the only time my Sister was up at my parents. We keep the dogs separate as they can be a bit much and Lou isn't too keen on kids.

Well my niece was a nightmare.

"Auntie Aimee.... Can I see the dogs" 
"No." 
"I'm letting them in"
"Don't your sister is scared of them"
"Why" 
"Cos they're big" 
"So"

We ended up letting Jack in as he's the softest of the lot and the one who would just lie down and let them do whatever (he's the best teaching dog). Anyway. A couple of hours later I caught the younger niece leaning over, stroking Jack then giggling. :lol:

My eldest niece got over her fear when she stayed the day here without her Mum. I just kept an eye on Lou, but after that she's been dog mad   Plus all the dog related gifts she gets might have helped 

And here she is with them a couple of months back. You wouldn't have thought she used to scream and cry when she saw them through the baby gate!


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## Skinnywhippet (May 23, 2013)

freckles said:


> And the hiding behind the sofa, again shes a child, my daughter used to be very shy, and would struggle to talk to other people (cant shut her up now)..


OK, I didn't want to write pages about this kid but trust me, she is NOT shy, or nervous. She just likes drama and to have her own way - which of course we all do, but the way I was brought up children are treated kindly and fairly but NOT allowed to run the house.



freckles said:


> Im sure its didnt kill you dog to be locked up for one day,  I would of put mine away in your situation (I have a 10 stone very chilled mastine and a hyper puppy)
> 
> yes, your house, your rules, but one day you might end up with no one wanting to visit, I love my pets, but sometimes family, children (do you have any kids?) need to come first.. and Im sure you dog wont be traumatised for the rest of its life for being kept away...


I'm not sure I suggested it killed or traumatised my dog, did I? I said it spoiled MY day, which it did, and pissed me off. And I also think it's a shame for both the child and the puppy.

Maybe the emphasis in my original post was misleading, though. Of course I don't blame the five year old - children, like our dogs, will do more of whatever gets the results they want. In her case, attention and sympathy from her parents. I blame the parents for not dealing with it sensibly, firmly and calmly, so that the child doesn't miss out on what should be a source of fun and enjoyment for them. And their child doesn't become an annoying diva 

And frankly, anyone who wants to stop visiting because my dog might sniff (yes, SNIFF, that is all we are talking about - i don't allow jumping up or even licking unless it's a consenting adult  ) them, is very very welcome to stay away.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I do appreciate dog fear, my brother went through this after being nipped by a dog when he was about 8. My grandparents had two dogs at the time who helped him to overcome this fear.

I don't think it should be parents and dog owners against the other, but more about working together. I hate that, I feel it's enough of a Grand Canon gap in so many parts of life already, it is distressing. I could rant about many dog owners whom I've no idea if they are parents or not. It's not my business no more than they need to know about my situation! But having good manners and respect, helping children by having a calm dog is a much more positive role model but it works both ways. Parents need to teach their children how to respect dogs too or understand that if it's the dog owner's house then at some point the dog needs a break, especially if it's a whole day. 

My sister in law is nervous of dogs. In the past we've kept Molly in a crate and they would visit for just an hour or two as Molly was a bit lively in the past but now that we've worked on impulse control she's much calmer. Sis in law is much more relaxed too. It's a rare thing these days called compromise


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

I cannot understand these kids who say they're scared when they're not, they just want attention. Worse still are the parents who mollycoddle them and 'protect' them from the terrifying dogs.  Clealry, my three are terrifying my niece here 









I was really peed off when some mates came to stay and lifted their 5 year old off the floor constantly in case the dogs went near him! Ridiculous! He hadn't had an incident with a dog, he was just being a wuss and I'm sorry, but I think parents should encourage their kids to interact with dogs, they're pretty darn common! If they're going to come (invited themselves) I don't see why I should have to lock away my dogs!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Alice Childress said:


> I didn't even notice that the child was only 5.
> 
> Supporting a child while respecting their fears is not pandering to them though. In my mind it is similar to dogs, when they go through a fear stage, if you force them to confront beyond their comfort level, their fear you can be increased. Whereas if you act casually, but respect the dogs response, letting them come closer in their own time, they gain confidence.
> 
> There doesn't have to be any mollycoddling involved. There is nothing wrong with trying to understand where the child is coming from, just as we would when our dogs have a reaction to something that we do not understand.


As I said...I wouldnt force the child. They could sit on my lap (that is supporting them). What I wouldnt expect is that a dog owner feels obliged to restrict their dog (well behaved and gentle apparently) in their own home, because my child is basically insisting upon it. That is pandering in my mind :closedeyes:


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

SLB said:


> My sister was like this with my eldest niece, and is with her other daughter. My eldest niece is now 3 and was an absolute PAIN on Christmas eve when we went up to stay the night at my parents. I'd wanted to see them at Christmas and it was the only time my Sister was up at my parents. We keep the dogs separate as they can be a bit much and Lou isn't too keen on kids.
> 
> Well my niece was a nightmare.
> 
> ...


A wonderful photo and a very revealing day. Well done, that's a great resolution.


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## Mulish (Feb 20, 2013)

chichi said:


> Not negative....I have kids and I wouldnt feed their fear by pandering to them being afraid of a well behaved dog. *I would take advantage of having a nice tempered dog to hand, who I could help them with to overcome their fears*. Sure it could take several visits for the child to venture from my lap (I wouldnt force it) but to want the dogs owner to restrict the dog in their own home would not be acceptable for me.


Well a lot of the language has been very negative.

I did just what you said for my dog fearing son. My friend happened to have the most laid back lab cross who did wonders for his confidence. Unlike the numerous dog owners we met when out and about (on pavements near roads, in children's play areas and on no dog beaches no less - we weren't marching through dog walking hot spots) who thought their off-lead dogs tearing up to, chasing and barking at my young and clearly petrified child was perfectly acceptable.

I was also the small child who was too shy to talk to anyone, too. I can assure you attention was the very last thing I wanted.

I have a friend who seems to feed her son's fear of dogs and it can be irritating to watch but it's not my place to tell her how to parent. When they come over I keep Benji out of their way because I want them to be comfortable here. If you don't want to shut your dog away in your own home then don't. Tell prospective visitors that and let them decide if they still want to come.

Threads like these make me so sad. Kids and dogs can be such a lovely combination with a bit of understanding, tolerance and education on both sides. There's no need for the name calling and vitriol


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## Nat88 (Oct 18, 2012)

One of my younger nephews used to be scared of dogs; never had a bad experience as far as I know, just hadn't grown up with any. So when I adopted Sybil understandably he was a bit nervous coming up to our house.

Luckily Sybil is fantastic with kids and not pushy at all, so over time it went from him flinching and squealing whenever she came near him in the garden to throwing balls for her and cuddling her on the settee. Even though I'm no natural with kids myself  it's great to see him head straight over to her and stroke her or wave. 

Like I say, I'm useless with kids  but I agree with others that the parents can influence their children by snatching them away as soon as a dog looks at them, in some cases. I do tend to avoid walking my dog in areas where children play I have to admit, especially in the summer months, in order to avoid conflict all around.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

My nephew was very wary of my three. I asked him if he would mind training Zak to retrieve the ball (Zak was a fiend for this already so knew the drill, sat patiently waiting for the ball, never came near the boy). By the end of his three day stay, he had Zak on his knee. I wouldn't dream of allowing mine to impact on a fearful child, but I do think it's nice to show kids that dogs aren't all big scary lunatics. I've often used Brig as my training dog when out because he sits nicely and just cuddles into people's legs and isn't mad and bouncy.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

I was in [email protected] with Sadie on Saturday and a woman was in there with her 3 kids... they walked down the aisle, saw Sadie and started screaming their heads off like she was attacking them or something  then all 3 of them turned around and ran away, still screaming.... WHY take your 3 kids into a busy pet shop on a Saturday afternoon when it's ALWAYS full of dogs, there were at least 2 or 3 other dogs in there at the time as there usually is, especially on a Saturday!

Then my dad annoyed me even more when I was paying for my items and I asked him to take Sadie's lead while I got my purse out... so what did he do? He took her over to "look" at the rabbits and guinea pigs  do irritating idiotic man children count in this thread too?? I didn't half give him a rollocking in front of everyone, it's so unfair on the animals to have a great big dog drooling and staring in at them 

Think i'll stick to going to [email protected] on my own, during school hours


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

So if your dog was scared of something rational or not, would you just think tough deal with it and just flood your dog with it's fear? Children have irrationally fears surely it would be a nice opportunity to slowly show your niece there was nothing to fear? Could of kept your dog on a lead and not made a big deal out of it, I'm sure if it wasn't a true fear the child would have relaxed over a period of time! Slightly concerned someone would speak so nastily about their family on a forum more so when it's a 5 year old child? What is that about? She is FIVE still a baby!


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Just got back from a family gathering.Two year old twin great nephews were there. Host has a beautiful 12 year old staffie. One of the twins was scared by the dog, in a family where there has been what seems a thousand dogs and a million kids , careful handling and good adult supervision was in abundance. The afternoon ended with two little boys leaving the house wanting to give the lovely "goggie a cuddle Goodbye".. H was more than happy to oblige..


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

I have to say I'm a little shocked by this. Not by the parenting but by the attitudes towards phobias :scared:

I used to be terrified of dogs. I mean, really scared. It wasn't because of 'mollycoddling' or even a particularly bad experience- It was the fact I'd not been exposed to dogs and couldn't read them. It wasn't until I was about 17 that I started to tackle it. Until then, I would walk the long way round the park- would change my route if I saw a dog off lead- I wouldn't expect people to put them on a lead but do see why it's being suggested in the local park. 

Look at it this way- a child sees a dog approaching, it's a strange dog and unpredictable- they run and the dog gives chase- the child screams and the dog gets excited, starts jumping up and perhaps knocks them over. Can you not see how terrifying that could be for a child, even if the dog poses no danger? 

I do understand what you mean that you could have shown the little girl how to interact and build some positive experiences with her with your dog- it makes sense- but to call her a spoilt brat for a phobic behaviour is sad to me, I have to say :nonod:


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

This has made me remember something my daughter (now 34) said not long after our first retriever died. She was about 16 when Cally died and she told me that when we said we were getting a dog she was quite scared. OH and I had dogs before the kids came along, but due to various circumstances were unable to get a dog until that particular occasion. We were both excited and our five year old son couldn't wait as he adored dogs. We went to see the breeders and when we entered we were surrounded by nine happy retrievers and our son sort of vanished in the middle of a bunch of golden dogs and stayed there until we forcibly dragged him out when we left. Must confess I didn't notice daughters reticence. Sometime later we got the puppy and daughter fell in love with this cute fluffy little thing along with the rest of us. I had no idea daughter had been frightened until that day ten years later. I asked her why as she hadn't had any bad experiences with dogs. She said she didn't know except some of her friends didn't like dogs and I now wondering if peer pressure has something to do with it. Imagine it. If one of the more popular little girls at school declares dogs are horrible and must be screamed at, then they all follow suit so they are part of the little girl gang. 
Just a thought. Peer pressure has a lot to answer for.


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

I don't like kids. 

I don't like kids in my house. Even related ones.

I don't like kids screaming at my dog to play with them and when my dog shows no interest screams that the dog is scary 

If your going to bring your kids into my house. Make them behave. I wouldn't let my dog pick everything up in your house now would I. And I wouldn't let my dog howl till the neighbours complained either.

I don't like kids. Im not parent material. Thank god im too old


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Scabbers said:


> I don't like kids.
> 
> I don't like kids in my house. Even related ones.
> 
> ...


Could we just clear something up here.......

Are you saying that you don't like kids? Wasn't quite sure from your post :lol:


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

*Dogs like kids they feel safe with 
Kids like dogs they feel safe with too.*

Clicker/tag training can be employed to teach appropriate behaviours that make for positive experiences and help improve emotional responses for both dog and kid and keeps everyone feeling safe.

I highly recommend watching the following video. OP- perhaps you can forward it to your family for your niece. If you felt your dog would be suitable and 100% comfortable doing so, she could serve as a suitable stooge eventually?

[youtube_browser]vwg9NT_DLZA[/youtube_browser]


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Do you know this thread has really angered me! What about the rights of dog owners over children? Well let's see anyone with half a brain would put their dog on a lead around strange children, I do mostly to protect my dog, children scream shout and are unpredictable the best of times add to that wheels and children on wheels scream shouting, the sound of those wheels on a ramp, seems if the parish have had to ask people to do something sensible and logical it's not being done already so really what about the rights of dog walkers over rides the right of a child to be safe??


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

My oldest grandson, now 8 , was terrified of dogs till 2 years ago - I mean really, really scared, no affectation, it was very genuine. His other grandparents have a bouncy undisciplined spaniel who would jump up all the time and once nipped his ear in over-excitement, so very understandable. Then his mum's closest friend bought a Westie puppy, involved Louie in his care and training and they adore each other. He loves Tango to bits - she is very docile ! - and always wants to hold her lead and run with her when we're out.Currently he's pestering his parents to get a dog but there's little chance of that !
The younger 3 y.o grandson is not as enthusiatic but he's very relaxed around the Westie and Tango, I tend to supervise them very carefully as he's a bit clumsy and noisy at times and Tango is a little wary of him.
It's so sad to see children scared of all dogs. Respect is good, but not fear. 
I've taught the boys not to disturb Tango when she's eating or sleeping and not to chase her and they all get on fine. Not that she's given me any cause for concern, but there's no room for complacency.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Meezey said:


> Do you know this thread has really angered me! What about the rights of dog owners over children? Well let's see anyone with half a brain would put their dog on a lead around strange children, I do mostly to protect my dog, children scream shout and are unpredictable the best of times add to that wheels and children on wheels scream shouting, the sound of those wheels on a ramp, *seems if the parish have had to ask people to do something sensible and logical it's not being done already so really what about the rights of dog walkers over rides the right of a child to be safe??*


Yup. It's probably the councils way of being nice about people who can't be arsed to control their dogs. "Being frightened" in that situation I would imagine actually translates to loose dogs running onto the skatepark when in use and chasing/jumping up at skaters. Common story in most parks I would have thought.......Fido running amok annoying people while hapless owner with a ball launcher and no recall looks on gormlessly.

A bit like the completely moronic Beagle owner I see regularly in one of our parks who's dog runs completely riot - running up to every person, dog and child it sees. It also runs into the childrens playground, skatepark and lord forbid any group of people are playing a ball game - dog will happily join in. The owner couldn't give a toss - it even runs out of the park after other dogs. It's a Beagle and no one is scared of them, right? especially because he's REALLY friendly!!


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

JordanRose said:


> I have to say I'm a little shocked by this. Not by the parenting but by the attitudes towards phobias :scared:
> 
> I used to be terrified of dogs. I mean, really scared. It wasn't because of 'mollycoddling' or even a particularly bad experience- It was the fact I'd not been exposed to dogs and couldn't read them. It wasn't until I was about 17 that I started to tackle it. Until then, I would walk the long way round the park- would change my route if I saw a dog off lead- I wouldn't expect people to put them on a lead but do see why it's being suggested in the local park.
> 
> ...


I didn't think the OP said the child had a phobia?

What irritates me is there are, or have been, children visit my house that think its perfectly OK to stand on my sofas, even jump about on them, the parents sit there and say absolutely bugger all to their little darlings because that's what they do at home, one even tried changing all our TV settings about!!
This is pure bad manners and annoys me no end.
IF I took my dog to their house and let her jump all over the furniture I'm sure they'd have much to say!
Double standards!
Most children of these days need to learn respect for tons of things, including other people, pets, possessions etc.... And for that, I blame the parents.

Just the same as I blame owners of badly behaved dogs!

.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Gertrude said:


> I didn't think the OP said the child had a phobia?
> 
> What irritates me is there are, or have been, children visit my house that think its perfectly OK to stand on my sofas, even jump about on them, the parents sit there and say absolutely bugger all to their little darlings because that's what they do at home, one even tried changing all our TV settings about!!
> This is pure bad manners and annoys me no end.
> ...


Rather like badly behaved dogs, it's rarely the dogs fault they have no manners it's the owner, with children it's generally the parents fault!

What kind if people would let their children do that in someone's house? Why wouldn't you say something it's your house?

These are CHILDREN!! Double standards my arse?


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

Meezey said:


> Rather like badly behaved dogs, it's rarely the dogs fault they have no manners, with children it's generally the parents fault!
> 
> What kind if people would let their children do that in someone's house?
> 
> These are CHILDREN!! Double standards my arse?


I edited the bottom of my post to say about badly behave dogs as you posted this.

Personally I don't care how young a child is, they should still be taught respect and not be allowed to jump about on peoples furniture etc.

My children and pets have never been allowed to disrespect anyone's belongings, no matter what.

Oh trust me, I did say something!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Gertrude said:


> I edited the bottom of my post to say about badly behave dogs as you posted this.
> 
> Personally I don't care how young a child is, they should still be taught respect and not be allowed to jump about on peoples furniture etc.
> 
> My children and pets have never been allowed to disrespect anyone's belongings, no matter what.


Yep so who's fault is it the child's or the parents? The dogs or the owner?

I personally find OP's comments about a child offensive, irritating wussy hysterical, bratchild and primadonna to name but a few names she called the child! With an Aunt like that I am thankful she only wants to see the child twice a year. I'm not the most maternal person but that's unacceptable. As is feeling dog walker rights have higher priority than child safety.


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

Meezey said:


> Yep so who's fault is it the child's or the parents? The dogs or the owner?
> 
> I personally find OP's comments about a child offensive, irritating wussy hysterical, bratchild and primadonna to name but a few names she called the child! With an Aunt like that I am thankful she only wants to see the child twice a year. I'm not the most maternal person but that's unacceptable. As is feeling dog walker rights have higher priority than child safety.


I think we have crossed wires here??
I agree 100% its the parents fault (and its dog owners fault too of course)

When I said double standards, I was referring to the parents of badly behaved children in my house that would be mortified if I took a badly behaved dog to their house...does that make sense?


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## Cinnebar (Nov 8, 2011)

I had someone enquire about a puppy. We had a long conversation on the phone and I broke my own rules by letting them come and see the litter at 3 days old (Mum was very laid back and didn't mind at all) 
The son was desperate for a dog but 10 year old daughter was terrified, so much so that she daren't stroke a 3 day old blob of a puppy !!
We eventually agreed that they would bring the daughter to see 'her' puppy every week, sometimes twice a week and leave her to sit with it, with no pressures or expectations from anyone. It took the full 8 weeks but before they took that puppy home she was happy to pick it up and have puppy kisses as well as having her toes nipped as they ran round the kitchen.
He still comes to stay for holidays and is a marvellous dog.
It can be done but it does need someone to care and work at it.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OP just send the family member a like to your opening post ..problem solved me thinks.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Skinnywhippet said:


> Seeing as it's the season of goodwill towards men and all that...but i'm not sure even the bible says specifically that we have to be nice to horrible bratty children
> 
> So i've just had my bro/sis in law over for the afternoon, together with a lot of other family, and my two nieces. The younger is just over a year old and is fine with the dog. The other is coming up five, and is quite frankly an annoying little spoiled primadonna who apart from lots of other affectations is "scared" of the dog. I kept her on the lead (dog not child  ) until everyone had settled down, but i know that the dog is going to at least go over and sniff Elder Niece once i let her off. So possibly foolishly, i asked bro in law whether she'll cope OK if dog approaches her and am told "oh no, there'll probably be a meltdown". So poor old puppygirl has had to spend the whole afternoon in quarantine, super sad and baffled as to what she's done to deserve not being allowed to play with the kids- she LOVES kids and is totally gentle with them.
> 
> ...


I really do not understand how you can be so horrible about your own Nieces!  If that was my Niece I would try my best to help her overcome her fear because I love her. It's like you're blaming the 5 year old child when it's not even her fault 

This whole thread is just horrible and how you can be so nasty about your own Niece is terrible. If you were my Aunty or Sister I wouldn't be coming to your house again.

I think you're the one who's the primadonna.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> I really do not understand how you can be so horrible about your own Nieces!  If that was my Niece I would try my best to help her overcome her fear because I love her. It's like you're blaming the 5 year old child when it's not even her fault
> 
> This whole thread is just horrible and how you can be so nasty about your own Niece is terrible. If you were my Aunty or Sister I wouldn't be coming to your house again.
> 
> I think you're the one who's the primadonna.


Thankgod it not just me thinking this.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

As much as I agree that in this case the girl seems to be more spoiled than genuinely frightened I think the whole thread is a bit mean... Especially for kids with real phobias. Getting over a phobia is not as easy as introducing a kid to one friendly dog. And no, a person doesn't need to have any sort of experience with a stimulus to have a fear response or develop a real phobia. Many people who have snake, spider and other phobias have never even seen a real snake. So it's pretty cruel to claim that just because a kid hasn't been mauled by a dog he can't have a real fear of dogs. This girl is only 5 years old. Not all children like animals and not all parents see the need to "treat" a fear of dogs if they themselves aren't big dog lovers. That's their choice. Just because they're not asking you to help them with this problem doesn't mean that they are encouraging it either. They may not see it as a problem. Many people live without owning a dog and live happy lives. I am always more worried about parents who actually actively teach children to be aware of dogs, watch out for big dogs on the street and do everything to keep them away from any interaction. As far as I understand you weren't asked to banish the dog to the basement or out in the garden? Really don't see anything wrong with keeping the dog on a lead. I think that's what I would do if I was to have people over with some kids. You can't keep an eye on the children and the dog all the time at such gatherings so I think it would be pretty irresponsible to have the dog off lead when there's a one year old and a five year old in the house?
I also never really understood the whole "my house - my rules" point of view. Yes, I understand that I have the right to decide how the things will be done in my home, but when I welcome other people to my home I want them to feel welcomed and comfortable. I always clean the flat so that people wouldn't leave covered in dog hair, make sure Axel isn't pestering anyone for treats and such. When I used to live with my parents and we had a cat we always put her in a separate room when our friends came over with their two little kids. Kids were scared of our cat. It was never seen as a problem. I would never think to say to someone not to come to visit me if they don't like my dog. Some parents ask their children to stay in their rooms and play when they have some friends or colleagues over for a couple of hours because not everyone enjoys having toddlers running around shoving toys and drawings in their faces.


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Skinnywhippet said:


> Meanwhile, in our local park they've just installed a skating ramp which has lead to more kids using it. In the latest parish mag there's an announcement that "_there have been reports of children being frightened by dogs, so all dogs must now be on leads when there are children present_". SERIOUSLY. Not HURT by dogs, or you can bet your life we'd all have heard about it, but "frightened". IE, they just don't like them and *their rights trump those of dog owners*.
> 
> What is wrong with everyone? Kids can really benefit from interacting with dogs, since when did they become scary monsters?!


Sorry, but I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a right to walk your dog off lead past a playground with children:confused1: Or would you rather see an announcement that read "there have been children bitten by dogs, so dogs are no longer allowed in this park":huh:


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

You sound like THE most adoring auntie. No biggie keeping a dog away from the family in another room for one afternoon, for the sake of avoiding a wind up if nothing else. I keep all five of mine away from visitors if they're not keen and always workmen. Blimey its just a few short hours once a year and if you hate your niece that much it would be wiser to visit them without your dog for a couple of hours and avoid the intrusion of your family at your house. 
Don't think I've ever hear so much venom against a child on here before and only because a dog has to spend a short time in another room. Yes its a shame they don't try to educate her on what dogs can be like but some grown adults squeal at spiders, rats, snakes etc. doesn't make me hate them for it - as with my dogs I just don't try and force my pets onto people and respect that not everyone likes the same things as I do.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

​


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

Malmum said:


> You sound like THE most adoring auntie. No biggie keeping a dog away from the family in another room for one afternoon, for the sake of avoiding a wind up if nothing else. I keep all five of mine away from visitors if they're not keen and always workmen. Blimey its just a few short hours once a year and if you hate your niece that much it would be wiser to visit them without your dog for a couple of hours and avoid the intrusion of your family at your house.
> Don't think I've ever hear so much venom against a child on here before and only because a dog has to spend a short time in another room. Yes its a shame they don't try to educate her on what dogs can be like but some grown adults squeal at spiders, rats, snakes etc. doesn't make me hate them for it - as with my dogs I just don't try and force my pets onto people and respect that not everyone likes the same things as I do.


My nieces and nephews rarely come around, they are sweet little things but i do not care if i dn't see them very often , i never see my sister or my brother both of whom get on my nerves and i have absolutely nothing in common with aside from having the same parents and quite frankly if they weren't my siblings i would never even speak to them.
My family come first,my dogs are part of that family, my house is my house, i have chosen to be child free ( my child is at uni now) & i like being child free it is how i want live.
If people want children then fine, but it is their choice to have them not mine, do not expect me change the way i have chosen to live and my rules in my house for the way they have chosen to live and their rules.
My neices and nephews know about my dogs, one is scared and wont come around the others are ok, it is not my job to be some sort of phobia counselor, it is their parents job, if they don't like dogs then don't come around.

Outside is a different matter, i always put my dogs on the lead around,children,runners,cyclists etc, as its only fair and stops any misunderstanding as my dog jumping on someone on a walk in excitement is not fair all round.


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## Skinnywhippet (May 23, 2013)

Just to clarify a few things. ..

1) this child does not have a phobia. I was not talking about children with genuine phobias, who of course need sympathy and patience. 

2) the dog WAS on a lead and/or confined the whole time. She never got within 2 feet of the child. 

3) the parents made no attempt to help her interact positively with the dog, which I'd have been more than happy to help them do.

4) it's the first christmas with my pup, who loves new people generally and children in particular. I was looking forward to it being a lovely day. It wasn't, and I find the child's behaviours thoroughly annoying. That's my opinion, same as it's opinion for those of you who think i'm an evil witch aunt to an adorable but terrified trembling bundle of fear


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Well I'm shortly packing my lot in the car to go and see family, and I can fully empathise with the OP. My lot are very well behaved, love going to see Nana and Grandad, and when I tell them 'we're going to see Nana and Grandad' they get really excited. The only problem at the moment is that my brother, and his two kids are currently living back at home with Nana and Grandad, and whilst I love them, I don't like how my brother, or his daughter is with the dogs. My brother should never own any animals quite frankly, and I would never trust him to look after any of mine. He did ask about the possibility of a pup from Tau and I told him no. His daughter tries hard, but she's spoilt rotten, and treats them like animated toys. I have tried to get her to treat them as dogs, and give them their space as they will need it rather than the constant barrage of attention she tries to inflict on them, but she doesn't always listen and I can always feel my brother's eyes on me boring into me that his child is more important than ANY dog! This is someone who for Tau, it took her two years to *trust* him as he's such a loud, big person and he used to loom over her to try and get her to like him. She now loves getting a fuss from him, but you can see the levels of understanding. He does have his own dog, well, my parents feed, clean up and pay for everything for her, and he has no compassion at all for the poor thing, she's a rescue staffie, and if it weren't for my parents, she'd get no food or walks at all. 

Anyway, so there you go, I'm another one having a whinge about kids, doesn't mean I hate all kids, there are some good kids out there, Ozrex's eldest is pretty well trained and the girls adore him. But there are definitely some kids who do not know how to interact with dogs, and play on it, and yes, it's usually down to the parents, my niece is like a smaller, girly version of my brother and how he treated animals at the same age.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Well I'm shortly packing my lot in the car to go and see family, and I can fully empathise with the OP. My lot are very well behaved, love going to see Nana and Grandad, and when I tell them 'we're going to see Nana and Grandad' they get really excited. The only problem at the moment is that my brother, and his two kids are currently living back at home with Nana and Grandad, and whilst I love them, I don't like how my brother, or his daughter is with the dogs. My brother should never own any animals quite frankly, and I would never trust him to look after any of mine. He did ask about the possibility of a pup from Tau and I told him no. His daughter tries hard, but she's spoilt rotten, and treats them like animated toys. I have tried to get her to treat them as dogs, and give them their space as they will need it rather than the constant barrage of attention she tries to inflict on them, but she doesn't always listen and I can always feel my brother's eyes on me boring into me that his child is more important than ANY dog! This is someone who for Tau, it took her two years to *trust* him as he's such a loud, big person and he used to loom over her to try and get her to like him. She now loves getting a fuss from him, but you can see the levels of understanding. He does have his own dog, well, my parents feed, clean up and pay for everything for her, and he has no compassion at all for the poor thing, she's a rescue staffie, and if it weren't for my parents, she'd get no food or walks at all.
> 
> Anyway, so there you go, I'm another one having a whinge about kids, doesn't mean I hate all kids, there are some good kids out there, Ozrex's eldest is pretty well trained and the girls adore him. But there are definitely some kids who do not know how to interact with dogs, and play on it, and yes, it's usually down to the parents, my niece is like a smaller, girly version of my brother and how he treated animals at the same age.


It's not the cases of if you like kids or not! Not that keen on them myself, or if that child plays on it. What I object to is the name calling of a small child!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Skinnywhippet said:


> Just to clarify a few things. ..
> 
> 1) this child does not have a phobia. I was not talking about children with genuine phobias, who of course need sympathy and patience.
> 
> ...


Bully for you, annoying as it is, and great you have an opinion, all entitled to them, but coming on the a public forum and to slag off and call a 5 year old child names!! No justification for that. Spend Christmas alone with your puppy next year all sorted!!! Or grow a set and have a chat with your brother rather than spitting venom at a 5 year old.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Well, at least you`ve learned not to have them visit again.....


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Meezey said:


> It's not the cases of if you like kids or not! Not that keen on them myself, or if that child plays on it. What I object to is the name calling of a small child!


Exactly.

At least SL you didnt spit out lots of venom whilst speaking of a child...unlike some.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Skinnywhippet said:


> Just to clarify a few things. ..
> 
> 1) this child does not have a phobia. I was not talking about children with genuine phobias, who of course need sympathy and patience.
> 
> ...


Did you watch the video I posted?
I suggest you do and send it to your sister and BIL too.

With regards to whether she has a phobia or not I wouldn't be qualified to judge, especially without seeing. I'm more used to dealing with phobic dogs than children. 
As with dogs though, the same stands; the animal/kid is scared or uncomfortable. To a certain extent it matters not (although helpful to know) the classification of this fear type or the origin, since the best we can do anyway, is deal with the behaviour in front of us and work on making this better.

If it is not a phobia, it is worth pointing out that as a general rule, kids that attention seek are really not very confident in themselves. The tag teaching used with the children shown in the video would still be perfectly appropriate for teaching her how to behave correctly and safely around your dog (surely you want that for the good of your pup).

I understand it was vexing to have to confine your pup for the afternoon, but I think it was the best call for her anyway, allowing her to approach a child that might have reacted and scared her would not have been a good thing. As you know it is ever important to invest in positive or at least neutral experiences around people and different things. 
Being confined or onlead isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a vital lifeskill for dogs to learn not to approach everyone, some people, just like dogs, need space and learning to read that is good.

I come at this from a very different standpoint to you. My dogs (two rescues who came to me from difficult backgrounds) live with a kid (or as we jokingly refer to him as 'the small one'). All get along swimmingly and love eachother very much. He, it has to be said, is fairly fab in his approach to interacting or not with dogs. Not surprising given the dogs he lives with and my dog training stuff. He recognizes signs of appeasement, calming signals etc.

Despite this, when he has friends round to play, mine are confined to two rooms (their den with their beds and stuff in) and another (gate up and when needed glass door too). 
Why? 
One of mine, despite her fabulousness with Small, I discovered through research a while back, was treated badly by kids in one of her previous homes (they used to tease her and pull her ears and pinch her ). She is also slightly partially sighted in one eye. Encouraging her to interact would not be beneficial really and she is more than happy to mind her own business and keep herself to herself. 
My other one is not really bothered, but he came to me as a complex behaviour case who had (amongst other things) major anxiety about being touched in certain areas. Kids have tended to be more trustworthy than adults for him it seems, but initially he has a no touch rule with all strangers. So again there is no benefit (or possibility with the later in mind) of him actively interacting. He again is happy to be confined (but obviously still have our company/presence) and mind his own beeswax.

Crucially, whilst I know lots about my dogs, I do not know lots about visiting children. How they will react, will they behave sensible, have they been allowed to tease dogs previously, have they been scared by dogs previously? 
With all this in mind and the given the dogs I have currently, it is best to avoid active interaction between the two. 
Don't get me wrong, I don't avoid all active interaction between my dogs and kids. My friends children for instance are wonderfully dog savvy and very respectful and we frequently walk together and have a lovely time..

I just feel that interactions where there are lots of 'maybes' are not necessarily worth the risk. I also believe it is important to teach both kids and dogs (as in the video) that you don't just approach without checking first. We can teach children to ask or just stand around and dogs can be taught to stand around and then be given the option to interact if they want to and it is in both's best interests.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Bully for you, annoying as it is, and great you have an opinion, all entitled to them, but coming on the a public forum and to slag off and call a 5 year old child names!! No justification for that. Spend Christmas alone with your puppy next year all sorted!!! Or grow a set and have a chat with your brother rather than *spitting venom* at a 5 year old.


How odd i didnt see this post till id posted mine,great minds think alike hey.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

I haven't read the whole thread but here is my take on it

If you have a child who is a relative who doesn't know how to behave around your dogs, the person who is at fault is you the dog savvy person.



What's wrong with talking to the child and getting them involved and I don't mean telling them "don't touch" Don't do that" I mean explanations.

Talk about how dogs are like small babies they are easily scared, explain the behaviour you want from the child, bring the child to you and do the behaviour you want around the dog with them, give lots of praise.

Make it a role play you are both working at the vets, dog school, puppy zoo and the child must learn to be an animal carer.

If you can train a responsible dog you can train a child its the same process just that you have the advantage of words.

I do training with my smallest niece and have done since she was 18 months old, she is now 3. I do all the commands with my niece holding my hand, she throws the treat from the treat bag. She is allowed to tell me which behaviour she wants to see. I have talked to her about the signs the dogs scared angry, upset and I repeat the talk regularly. I have done this with my other niece and nephew and my neighbours children, all with great success.


Those who have relatives far away surely you talk often on the phone? Bring the dog into the conversation, talk about what happens when they meet your dog. Make plans with them over the phone for the meeting. Don't just expect to meet once or twice a year and everything be perfect without preparation.

If all of us with child relatives growing up in non dog homes did this that would be the end of frightened children.


If you can't be bothered then don't invite your relatives to your home and lead a sad life without family contact or just visit them.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

Picklelily said:


> I haven't read the whole thread but here is my take on it
> 
> If you have a child who is a relative who doesn't know how to behave around your dogs, the person who is at fault is you the dog savvy person.
> 
> ...


Have to disagree with that.

I did not choose to have that child,their parents did, i did not choose to become some kind of behavioural teacher to kids about animals that is the parents responsibility,why is it people who choose not have kids somehow have the burden of teaching these kids shifted upon them?

I chose to become a responsible dog owner, of which i am.

My house is exactly how i want it, child free and 2 loving dogs, that is my house, if you do not like it do not come around, i don't want to be a surrogate parent or teacher if i had wanted that i would have had more kids.
Those saying a its a sad life life without your family, appear a little holier than thou imo.
Life is what you make it, you can choose your friends and not your family, i live perfectly happy without regular contact with mine, it doesn't make me sad,nor does it make me happy, it's just how it is, i have my life,they have theirs.

This whole notion of " you must be sad and lonely if you don't want your family around" is just nonsense.
You like your family and want to live your life around them and their kids,fine,thats great,but i do not feel the need to,nor do i expect to be called sad because i choose not to.

My life is perfectly happy and i wouldn't and wont change it.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

I personally put my dogs on leads when we are on walks and kids are approaching down the same path or whatever. Purely because my dogs are not small (collies) with lots of energy and affection so they wouldn't think twice on approaching the child to say hello but I don't think its fair on the child even if they did like dogs!

And even if you have the worlds best dog and is socially fine and loves children etc etc. at the end of the day it is still an animal which if the child did something - say pull on its tail. Then the dog could turn round and air snap for example which would do more harm to the child liking dogs. 

However slightly back on topic - this is not your child so you can't say how others should raise it and if you don't like the answer her father gave you about not letting the dog near her then you shouldn't ask questions you are not prepared for ether answer!!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Labman said:


> Have to disagree with that.
> 
> I did not choose to have that child,their parents did, i did not choose to become some kind of behavioural teacher to kids about animals that is the parents responsibility,why is it people who choose not have kids somehow have the burden of teaching these kids shifted upon them?
> 
> ...


It not about a burden of teaching kids, guess what in this day and age part of being a responsible owner is helping to educate other less savvy dog people! Dogs and their owners are having it tough right now, and part of the problem is owners saying "it's not my problem, it's not my responsibility, like it or lump it, my dog it can do what it wants, don't care what anyone else thinks, shouldn't have to control my dog round children that's the parents job, I'll walk my dog where I want don't care what others think". You might dislike kids that's your choice don't have them in your house it's your choice, I don't care sure no else does either! OP chose to have the children in her house, so rather than slagging off a child she could of done it different!


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## terencesmum (Jul 30, 2011)

Wow, bring on the Christmas cheer, ey? 
Anyway, here's my take on it.
Children are smaller, usually much smaller than adults. So a dog that is perceived to be small by an adult is still pretty frigging huge to a child.  My daughter is 5 and I would say ALL of her friends used to be terrified of Terence. I would say he is medium-sized but, to a 5-year old, he easily reaches up to chest height. Now, if something that I am not that familiar with (we are the only dog owners in Anna's circle of friends) comes up to me and reaches to my chest, I would be pretty wary, too. If that HUGE thing comes up to me and starts bounding all over me, not so great. Just saying. 
For what it's worth, I told Anna's friends that Terence is not scary and he lives in this house and is allowed to be out and about. My concession was to stick him on a house line. When her friends cottoned on to the fact he can do tricks and wasn't really all that bad, they soon came round and they are now fans of Terence, but it took some time.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

For the record, i am an extremely responsible owner when out in a public place, i also do not take my dogs where they are not wanted, ie in laws etc.
However, i am talking about my house where my dogs live,these are our rules, respect them or don't come around.
My dog has also gone into schools with the vet and has helped children overcome their fear, even getting a lovely card from the girl and her parents thanking her, so i am well aware of the responsibilties of owners and the fears of children,however my house is not a learning centre,school or place to learn stuff for kids.
It's about respect, these are my dogs this is their home,when it is in public or your home, i will respect their rules and always do.

Also, i have to add that it rarely causes any issues, those coming around to my house know how it is and their kids are fantastic with them.


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

LurcherOwner said:


> Lot of kid negativity heere


As usual! Just wondering how many of the kiddie haters actually are parents themselves and whether their opinions will change if they ever become parents themselves.


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## Tash (Mar 25, 2013)

I was once petrified of dogs for no reason other than the fact that as has been stated already, when you're younger.. so called 'little' dogs are huge in comparison to when you're an adult facing a little dog.

It's not always for attention, kids can genuinely be scared of not just dogs but all animals. It's a _real_ and _genuine_ fear and it doesn't matter _why_ they're scared. If they're scared, then deal with it. I don't see why anyone has to get on the defensive about their dogs being far more superior than a child's fear or vice versa. You should be willing to help the child if you have a child-savvy dog around... why should you just not bother to help? Why not talk to the child about it and show them firsthand what your dog can do and how well behaved they are? You should never leave a child alone with a dog, no matter how well behaved they are anyway, so why not tell the child that she won't ever be alone with the dog?

It really frustrates me when people say it's all for attention because actually, you have no idea if it's for attention or not. When we first had Ellie (our Briard - a big dog and a big puppy for that matter!) I was petrified. I used to climb up onto the back of the sofa petrified because she'd try climbing up as well just to be near me. I didn't know what was going on but when my parents sat me down and told me that she wasn't going to hurt me, I soon got used to her and loved her to pieces from that day on. Same with cats, I used to be petrified of them too until we got Molly and Foggy. It's all a learning curve, why not help instead of hinder?

Anyway... Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!


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## lucyandsandy (Apr 7, 2011)

I don't like other people's kids but I wouldn't rant about them, they are just kids after all. My son has an irrational fear of dogs after being chased and nipped at by an over excited puppy. 

I do not encourage him to approach friendly dogs as this makes him even more anxious I am having enough trouble trying to get him used to the dog he has grown up with!

It is not easy raising perfect children and it is also not easy raising a perfect dog so honestly I really don't get this children vs dogs debate it should more be parents and owners.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

cbrookman said:


> As usual! Just wondering how many of the kiddie haters actually are parents themselves and whether their opinions will change if they ever become parents themselves.


How do you know we are not parents? Or even if we are not, has it ever occured to you that we just don't want kids for whatever reason? Or maybe even those that can't have kids?.

People have their own reasons and they should be respected, having children is not the be all and end all of life.
It appears nowadays that those not having children are looked at with suspicion or dismay when they say " i don't want any".
What about the thousands that have kids and then do nothing to support them.
I admire anyone that stands up and says" no i don't want one".
I wish more people would think about what having a baby involves, maybe if they did we wouldn't have so many people struggling to bring them up,moaning they are skint all the time and treating them so appallingly in some circumstances.
Kids can be great,they bring a lot of joy and heartache,but if someone decides for whatever reason they dont want one,then surely that is a good thing,it is in my book anyway as it shows they are responsible enough to have thought it through made a decision based on that,instead of getting pregnant and hoping for the best.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2013)

Sorry, had to stop reading the thread, it was making me very sad...

My trainer and I have spent a lot of time working with all sorts of kids with dog issues and dogs with kid issues, and IMO both deserve nothing but compassion and understanding. 
I am fortunate to have two children with fabulous dog skills who often get called on to work with dogs with kid issues, and I have a dog with fabulous people skills who also gets called on to work with kids with dog issues. 

One of the more dramatic transformations was a friend of mines child who was utterly terrified of any dog, but particularly big ones. At the time we still had both danes and the big old mutt dog. Even with the dogs put away in another room she was too scared to even get out of the car. Over the course of a few visits, we eventually got to her coming inside the house, one dog in the room (Bates). I had her give Bates sit and down cues, and as she saw him easily comply, her confidence grew. At the end of that visit she was sitting on the sofa with Bates in her lap and the danes loose in the same room. 
Today that kiddo has a dog of her own who she adores.

We try to always approach each situation with patience, understanding, and meeting the dog or child where they are at, even if the behavior makes no sense to me or anyone else. 
And its so worth it... Watching the transformation from frightened to confident is nothing short of magical. I would hope for anyone to have the opportunity to witness this transformation. It really opens your mind and your heart.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Not read all the thread, but this thread, and the attitude towards the younger generation of family members has annoyed me beyond words! Yes, it can be annoying when children don't listen when you tell them how to behave around dogs (and other animals) but to call your own 5y/o niece a "spoiled little primadonna bratchild" or an "irritating wussy hysterical child". Really! You don't mince your words, do you? 

Seriously? Coming on here and complaining about the behaviour of a FIVE year old because it "ruined your day" simply because you had to keep the dog on a leash? Do you cry over spilt milk, too? :huh:

I'd better stop there before I really do get personal.


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## bella2013 (Aug 29, 2013)

I cant say much other peoples kids as I don't know any.
my mum seems to be worse than kids at the moment, walks in to garden when me and dog are out, so Tess starts barking and growling (terrier) mum squeals errr shes growling shes gonna bite me! tell her just to ignore tess til she's quiet then talk to her so she knows who it is, nope she just keeps flapping, Tess steals something so mum chases her!! grrr she really winds me up when she does that. 

we will have a nephew in 1 months time and I will teach Tess to be gentle when he comes round but at the end of the day if my sister or her OH aren't happy with tess being around then I will just go to theirs instead, im not shutting my dog away for them.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Labman said:


> How do you know we are not parents? Or even if we are not, has it ever occured to you that we just don't want kids for whatever reason? Or maybe even those that can't have kids?.
> 
> People have their own reasons and they should be respected, having children is not the be all and end all of life.
> It appears nowadays that those not having children are looked at with suspicion or dismay when they say " i don't want any".
> ...


You can defend what ever you want how you want! There is never going to be any excuse in the world for the OP to be name calling a their 5 year old niece, not now not ever, again I don't have children, I don't want children, I am also not to keen on how some children behave, yes it's OP's house and she can do what she wants how she wants when she wants I personally don't care if you don't like children if the OP doesn't like children, what I object strongly too is OP slagging off and name calling a 5 year old child! If she took issue with it, then she should have spoken to the adults, surely to god you if you know your niece is scared of dogs you would have realised it might not have all been plain sailing, but no OP spits her dummy out and bad mouths and name calls a child!!! You can blame a child behaviour on the parents , what's OP's excuse for acting like all the things she called her niece. You might be okay with an adult spitting such venom about a child, I'm not!!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I agree, not everyone wants children in their home, and not everyone wants dogs. Surely there can be compromise , at least with dogs. If I go someone's house where I don't expect my dog to be welcome I leave her at home .If you don't want children in your home , visit their home. 

Not difficult, is it ?


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## cbrookman (Jun 12, 2011)

Labman said:


> How do you know we are not parents? Or even if we are not, has it ever occured to you that we just don't want kids for whatever reason? Or maybe even those that can't have kids?.
> 
> People have their own reasons and they should be respected, having children is not the be all and end all of life.
> It appears nowadays that those not having children are looked at with suspicion or dismay when they say " i don't want any".
> ...


Did you not read my post where it says I WONDER HOW MANY....... At no point did I say what you are saying that I said. Just read things before replying.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

cbrookman said:


> As usual! Just wondering how many of the kiddie haters actually are parents themselves and whether their opinions will change if they ever become parents themselves.


Rather like those awfully designed shares on social media which assume that because I am not a parent, I do not know real love. I appreciate it's 'how many' but does that really matter that much? It's an assumption which fails to take into account that within the room of childless and childless not by choice are hundreds of sad stories and different reasons why this came to be. It does not mean that because we're not blessed with the miracle of being able to have children we are incapable of evaluating a situation and understanding that the parent's actions might be wrong as experienced dog owners. Giving birth does not mean that one automatically does the right thing every single time by the child. I would like to think if I was blessed with a child I would continue to think we can learn from each other. That I was still human enough to say I f****ed up and not assume I was beyond making mistakes just as I was before I had kids.

I detest PF threads like this. Those who assume that those who cannot abide parents and children with no manners hate them. I find that so offensive. One size fits all it seems and I'm frankly amazed, disappointed and appalled that so many of you on here can't learn _anything_ from each other. Compromise and begging to differ with respect seem beyond most on here.

For the record. I do not hate children. I adore them, I can't have them, I've not been able to for health reasons so it seems. It doesn't make me less able to comment than a parent. What I do hate is lack of manners by anyone when it comes to walks. Those who think that the countryside code is beneath them and seem not to be able to read a signpost on a gate about on and off lead. That applies to any adult regardless of their parental status or otherwise.

Actually maybe I'll just chat to children, I'm sure they'd make more sense.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

MollySmith said:


> Rather like those awfully designed shares on social media which assume that because I am not a parent, I do not know real love. Twaddle that generalises and fails to take into account that within the room of childless and childless not by choice are hundreds of sad stories and different reasons why this came to be. It does not mean that because we're not blessed with the miracle of being able to have children we are incapable of evaluating a situation and understanding that the parent's actions might be wrong as experienced dog owners. Giving birth does not mean that one automatically does the right thing every single time by the child. I would like to think if I was blessed with a child I would continue to think we can learn from each other. That I was still human enough to say I f****ed up and not assume I was beyond making mistakes just as I was before I had kids.
> 
> I detest PF threads like this because of this sort of comment and those who assume that those who cannot abide parents and children with no manners hate them. I find that so offensive. One size fits all it seems and I'm frankly amazed, disappointed and appalled that so many of you can't learning anything from each other. Compromise and begging to differ with respect seem beyond most on here.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more ! I hate those FB statuses too., so smug !
I may have mentioned before that I was a midwife. Many patients seemed to think that if you had never given birth you couldn't possibly understand the pain and emotion involved, but the best midwife I ever worked with was single and childless - her empathy was immense. 
Sorry, a little off topic, but we should surely all be trying to understand each other's view points more, not everything is black and white. 
Compromise is the key !!


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Labman said:


> Have to disagree with that.
> 
> I did not choose to have that child,their parents did, i did not choose to become some kind of behavioural teacher to kids about animals that is the parents responsibility,why is it people who choose not have kids somehow have the burden of teaching these kids shifted upon them?
> 
> ...


That's fine but the original poster and some of the shocking ones afte,r chose to have children and dogs involved in their lives.

Sorry if you thought my post holier than thou I think of my close friends as family. Perhaps I should have said chose to not have family with children in your life. Being an educator can be as simple as putting the dog on a lead to pass someone, educate by example. Imagine if this were reversed and someone were ranting about an 8 week old puppy.

I'm afraid I find those who hate children as difficult to understand as those who hate dogs. Each one in both groups is an individual how can you hate or dislike every individual without knowing them.

Surely as child who is a member of your family you want to try and develop a relationship with all of them, dogs and child included.

Also as has said before a responsible owner keeps their dog safe, if I have to educate to do that so be it.

Finally my sister has not enjoyed children her whole life but still developed a great relationship with my son. She then ended up with the shock of a child of her own aged 41, she regrets not understanding more when my son was small don't have that regret yourself.

Before you all have a go I'm not suggesting you will all have babies, just that life is sadly short open yourself to every life experience and love. Death comes all too quickly.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Labman said:


> My nieces and nephews rarely come around, they are sweet little things but i do not care if i dn't see them very often , i never see my sister or my brother both of whom get on my nerves and i have absolutely nothing in common with aside from having the same parents and quite frankly if they weren't my siblings i would never even speak to them.
> My family come first,my dogs are part of that family, my house is my house, *i have chosen to be child free ( my child is at uni now) & i like being child free it is how i want live.*
> If people want children then fine, but it is their choice to have them not mine, do not expect me change the way i have chosen to live and my rules in my house for the way they have chosen to live and their rules.
> My neices and nephews know about my dogs, one is scared and wont come around the others are ok, it is not my job to be some sort of phobia counselor, it is their parents job, if they don't like dogs then don't come around.
> ...


How exactly have you chose to be child free? you have a child they are for life not just till they reach 16/18 then boot them out, although after reading your posts at a guess your child was probably desperate to leave home, you dont come across as the maternal type at all.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Strange how quickly that people forget they were once children! Can only hope the children in the close families of those who dislike them so much, never learn of an Auntie's or Uncle's dislike of them, how incredibly sad for those children!


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> How exactly have you chose to be child free? you have a child they are for life not just till they reach 16/18 then boot them out, although after reading your posts at a guess your child was probably desperate to leave home, you dont come across as the maternal type at all.


Ok,

Now you have pissed me off, there is no need for personal attacks or assumptions.
My son is extremely happy and was never desperate to leave, he loves coming home and he is here at the moment ,he is 18 now and therefore not a child,so the house is child free,do you need me to explain this to you? 
I do not need to come on a forum and express how much i love him or explain anything to you.

You are arrogant enough to presume you know me ,my son or how happy we all when in fact you know nothing.

My wife and i are more than happy with 1 child, he has his own life away at uni and we could not be more proud.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I have had a similar situation this Christmas in that we went to my parents for Christmas and my brother and his two girls were there there too, the eldest is 7 and is scared of my puppy, the youngest 4 and adores the puppy and has to be told to give him space as she can crowd him a little, but I spent time explaining things to them and desperately trying to get the eldest not to screech every time the puppy went near her as the noise gets him excited and that he thinks she wants to play and after awhile she did calm down and would come and stroke the dog when I was holding him and they both had to be held back and told to leave him alone when he went to sleep as they wanted to fuss and stroke him as he was quiet  but both the puppy and my nieces all seem to find a balance and they were just all doing their own thing after a couple of hours, but I felt it was up to me to try and keep everybody happy and also to make it a positive experience for the puppy too.

I then went to my inlaws yesterday and my husbands brother was there with his kids and they are terrified of dogs due to his other brothers dogs that have been allowed to terrorise them and has been known to be hanging off the bottom of the nephews trousers  they reacted badly to the puppy so I kept him on a lead the whole time so he couldn't get close to them and it reassured the kids and they started to become interested in him and watching him so fingers crossed next time they meet it won't be as scary for them.

I would hate to have caused upset and further alienate my nieces and nephews with my dogs behaviour, I want to try and help them get over their fear and build a friendship between them and Hector as I'm sure my brother won't ever have a dog and I know how important my childhood dog was too me so if I can give them just a little taste of how great a companion and dog can be then I will be a happy bunny.

Oh and also not mother and never will be, I'm not keen on children but I don't want to harm or upset them or add to their phobias.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Labman said:


> Ok,
> 
> Now you have pissed me off, there is no need for personal attacks or assumptions.
> My son is extremely happy and was never desperate to leave, he loves coming home and he is here at the moment ,he is 18 now and therefore not a child,so the house is child free,do you need me to explain this to you?
> ...


Well its what you wrote what are people meant to think based on what you wrote.


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Well its what you wrote what are people meant to think based on what you wrote.


Think what you want,you small minded fool, i am off.

Mods please delete my account.

Thanks


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Labman said:


> Ok,
> 
> Now you have pissed me off, there is no need for personal attacks or assumptions.
> My son is extremely happy and was never desperate to leave, he loves coming home and he is here at the moment ,he is 18 now and therefore not a child,so the house is child free,do you need me to explain this to you?
> ...


You've just said it yourself in this post, your child is always, your child be they 8 or 18 so it might be understandable that people could read it the way they have, your also slightly contradictory in your post so again that might cause confusion. Ie it's not your place to educate, then when people say it is you then say you take your dog to educate children at school!


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## Labman (Sep 20, 2011)

Meezey said:


> You've just said it yourself in this post, your child is always, your child be they 8 or 18 so it might be understandable that people could read it the way they have, your also slightly contradictory in your post so again that might cause confusion. Ie it's not your place to educate, then when people say it is you then say you take your dog to educate children at school!


I never said i took my dog into schools either , re read it, she went in with the vet not me, but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant eh?.

Anyway,no worries, like i said i have had it on here.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Labman said:


> Think what you want,you small minded fool, i am off.
> 
> Mods please delete my account.
> 
> Thanks


Oh relax, it's only a forum words on a screen from a stranger!! Press the cross in the corner and like magic your gone all by yourself


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Labman said:


> I never said i took my dog into schools either , re read it, she went in with the vet not me, but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant eh?.
> 
> Anyway,no worries, like i said i have had it on here.


No one is ranting other than yourself 

Happy New Year! Bye..


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## lucyandsandy (Apr 7, 2011)

Sorry to stick my nose in, I think that was a bit harsh to say a child couldnt wait to leave home. I took it that Labman meant free from young challenging tantrum children not a young adult "child".


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Labman said:


> Ok,
> 
> Now you have pissed me off, there is no need for personal attacks or assumptions.
> My son is extremely happy and was never desperate to leave, he loves coming home and he is here at the moment ,he is 18 now and therefore not a child,so the house is child free,do you need me to explain this to you?
> ...


I don't live at home, but my parents aren't child free. For me, it's an odd phrase.

Child free is someone who has not had children by choice, at least that's how it's seen within the childless communities I am a member of elsewhere. I was surprised to see that you did have a son. Great that you do and you are proud of him but as you say it's the house which is child free not you and your wife, which is entirely different. It's one of those phrases that means so much more if one is not a parent and I guess be thankful that you don't know that (in the nicest way)


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

lucyandsandy said:


> Sorry to stick my nose in, I think that was a bit harsh to say a child couldnt wait to leave home. I took it that Labman meant free from young challenging tantrum children not a young adult "child".


That wasnt clear actually until he clarified what he had meant,also i said at a guess not that it was the case.


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

Are people being flamed for not liking kids? Or is there a point i have missed?

My mum HATES dogs. She will not tolerate any dog of mine in her home but will happily have her grankids over who behave like a troop of monkeys. I do not blame her. If she dislikes dogs then thats her choice.

If i have a dog in my home then this is my choice. I do not like kids. And the parents of the kids brought round to my house seem to take a step back and Appear to dump the responsibility of keeping their children under control to me for some reason? 

I will not allow this. If you bring your kids round to my home i want you to stop your kids from screaming, kicking the cat when they think nobody is looking, Then pretending to be scared when the dog walks around her. Bearing in mind she will constantly shout the dogs name to try get his attention off me. Try to flush all the teddys down the toilet which are in my room and off limits. Pulling everything out the fridge, drawing on my walls, spilling water everywhere. Jumping all over the table and furniture. Screaming so loud the neighbours bang on the walls...Missing the toilet. Jumping all over me and then pulling my hair.

Why in gods name would people want kids like that in their house? Its like having a chimp running riot. 

I do not allow my dog to pee up the walls in your house, chew your tv cables, jump up, climb on the furniture or howl like the hound of the baskervilles. But they seem to feel free and let their kids do what ever suits them.

I try to Redirect and tell the child what to do and they start mimmiking everything i say and i want to throttle the little Snot.

Not every child is Genuinly scared of dogs. Some do it for attention. She only plays up when people are looking at her. 

If they are scared and if i thought i could help i them get over their genuine fear then i probably would.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

I don't think anyone is being flamed for not liking kids Scabbers, but instead for not considering the fact that the 5 year old may simply have been genuinely scared, however annoying it was for the OP, and that calling her a wussy hysterical bratchild etc is rather unnecessary and unpleasant.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Scabbers said:


> Are people being flamed for not liking kids? Or is there a point i have missed?
> 
> My mum HATES dogs. She will not tolerate any dog of mine in her home but will happily have her grankids over who behave like a troop of monkeys. I do not blame her. If she dislikes dogs then thats her choice.
> 
> ...


You've missed the point.


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

Alice Childress said:


> I don't think anyone is being flamed for not liking kids Scabbers, but instead for not considering the fact that the 5 year old may simply have been genuinely scared, however annoying it was for the OP, and that calling her a wussy hysterical bratchild etc is rather unnecessary and unpleasant.


Well i can see why that may upset people.

But maby we should consider that the child is part of the OP'S family and if anyone will know what this child is like it would be them right?

Children are hard work and if it isnt your thing and the parents have not got a clue then sometimes its nice to vent. Alot of thing said when venting are just hollow words anyway.

The time before last (when my neice was over) I hated it. I swore never to have that little toerag in my house again. She was a nightmare!

But the last visit. She was alot better.

I think what the OP is annoyed about is, The child is inconsistant with her "Fear". My neice is so i can see where he is coming from.

If the child is afraid for real then both parent and OP should maby try to encourage friendly interaction. Because maby she will grow to love dogs and eventually rescue one from a dogs home. Which means it will be worth doing.

But why waste that on a child who has no interest in learning or listening. The Parents need to lay the law down first.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

lucyandsandy said:


> Sorry to stick my nose in, I think that was a bit harsh to say a child couldnt wait to leave home. I took it that Labman meant free from young challenging tantrum children not a young adult "child".


That's exactly what I would say I'm in the same position as labman, I would say at the moment my home is mostly child free.

Hope it won't be in the future as I want Grandchildren but not for ooh at least 10 years.

"Looks pointedly over at son"


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Scabbers said:


> Are people being flamed for not liking kids? Or is there a point i have missed?
> 
> My mum HATES dogs. She will not tolerate any dog of mine in her home but will happily have her grankids over who behave like a troop of monkeys. I do not blame her. If she dislikes dogs then thats her choice.
> 
> ...


come visit us you'l love my rogues then :lol:


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Scabbers said:


> .
> 
> I think what the OP is annoyed about is, The child is inconsistant with her "Fear". My neice is so i can see where he is coming from.


Coming from a *not a parent* but I have always found children to be inconsistent it's part of being a child, you just go with the flow and make allowances for it, hell I'm nearly 40 and still inconsistent in that I'll change my mind like wind if I feel it


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## lucyandsandy (Apr 7, 2011)

I am quite shocked at this whole thread. How people can get so personal sometimes and seem to think it is Ok because the other person can just turn the computer off. 

Forums confuse me, yes people can show resilience but why should they have too? Text words can be just as harmful, they still have meaning.

Sorry rant over!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

lucyandsandy said:


> I am quite shocked at this whole thread. How people can get so personal sometimes and seem to think it is Ok because the other person can just turn the computer off.
> 
> Forums confuse me, yes people can show resilience but why should they have too? Text words can be just as harmful, they still have meaning.
> 
> Sorry rant over!


Some people have lost children though lucy,so yes i agree with that part *some words are harmful* ie bratty wussy child..you get what im sayin?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I see everything has returned to normal on the forum 

Merry Christmas!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> I see everything has returned to normal on the forum
> 
> Merry Christmas!


:lol: merry crimbo


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## lucyandsandy (Apr 7, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Some people have lost children though lucy,so yes i agree with that part *some words are harmful* ie bratty wussy child..you get what im sayin?


This I wouldn't wish upon anyone and I understand why people would get upset over this thread.

To add to OP my son's have friends that really annoy me, I find children hard to tolerate especially when they are rude or snotty but I would never talk about them in such a way. I also welcome them into my household because my kids want to have friends. Compromise doesn't hurt anyone for a day.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I personally think negative thoughts about family/friends are best not shared on the Internet. Once there they can never be taken back and could be read causing a whole lot of unintended grief.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Jobeth said:


> I personally think negative thoughts about family/friends are best not shared on the Internet. Once there they can never be taken back and could be read causing a whole lot of unintended grief.


Not everyone has other people outside of that circle they can share with though.

Sometimes it does one good to hear the thoughts of others whether they are in disagreement with yourself or not.

If someone posts in opposition to my own post I'm happy to read that post and consider my position. However not if their post is an abusive personal attack.

I do sometimes wish dog chat was members only but then our posts can help so many non members.

Everything in life is a compromise.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Labman said:


> Think what you want,you small minded fool, i am off.
> 
> Mods please delete my account.
> 
> Thanks


2 hours after your 'flounce' and you're still here. :lol:


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

cbrookman said:


> As usual! Just wondering how many of the kiddie haters actually are parents themselves and whether their opinions will change if they ever become parents themselves.


I find this sort of opinion posted a lot, and it's quite hurtful to be frank. I would have loved to have been a parent, but not all children survive.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Back from my parents, and actually my niece was much improved in her behaviour, she can still be a spoilt brat at times, but she was really good with the girls, and did as I said!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I find this sort of opinion posted a lot, and it's quite hurtful to be frank. I would have loved to have been a parent, but not all children survive.


Nods and hugs. Some need to walk a mile in our shoes.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

MollySmith said:


> Nods and hugs. Some need to walk a mile in our shoes.


So agree with that.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

We went for a boxing day walk at Ogden Reservoir, full of people who don't normally walk for the rest of the year with their kids who suddenly balk at the sight of dogs. There was even one who was scared of Teddy (just turned 16 weeks old now :001_wub: ) and the child stood there quivering whilst he stood there looking baffled and confused. 
He had to cope with children running round screaming and he did quite well. Fortunately there were other kids who were calmer around him and he wasn't scared.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lucyandsandy said:


> I am quite shocked at this whole thread. How people can get so personal sometimes and seem to think it is Ok because the other person can just turn the computer off.
> 
> Forums confuse me, yes people can show resilience but why should they have too? Text words can be just as harmful, they still have meaning.
> 
> Sorry rant over!


No one is saying it's okay, but if your going to let words on a forum upset you so much that you state you want the mods to delete your account, why wait for a mod just switch your computer off if it upsets you!


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I find this sort of opinion posted a lot, and it's quite hurtful to be frank. I would have loved to have been a parent, but not all children survive.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Back from my parents, and actually my niece was much improved in her behaviour, she can still be a spoilt brat at times, but she was really good with the girls, and did as I said!





MollySmith said:


> Nods and hugs. Some need to walk a mile in our shoes.





we love bsh's said:


> So agree with that.


I have four grandchildren and one great grandchild who did not survive and have seen how devastating it can be for the parents (and grandparents to a degree) so I have every sympathy for anyone who has been or is in this position. However, it doesn't alter the fact that my grandson (almost 11 years old and intelligent) continued to push the boundaries after continued guidance for three years from both me and his mother, and then lied about what my dog did. Tip of the iceberg with him I'm afraid, he's a "me, me, me" and "are you watching me because I will continue to interrupt you until you do" type of child and I reserve the right to call him a lying little toerag as the description fitted the situation. I have every faith that he will grow up and mature into a lovely young man but at this precise moment he's a grand PITA!

I think most parents/close relatives can say that although they love their children/grandchildren/niece/nephew, etc., there are times when they don't actually like them for a short while for something they've done or how they've behaved.

*Sleeping Lion* Really nice to hear your niece was so much better this time, looking good for a nice relationship between her and your girls in the future .


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

DirtyGertie said:


> I* have four grandchildren and one great grandchild who did not survive* and have seen how devastating it can be for the parents (and grandparents to a degree) so I have every sympathy for anyone who has been or is in this position. However, it doesn't alter the fact that my grandson (almost 11 years old and intelligent) continued to push the boundaries after continued guidance for three years from both me and his mother, and then lied about what my dog did. Tip of the iceberg with him I'm afraid, he's a "me, me, me" and "are you watching me because I will continue to interrupt you until you do" type of child and I reserve the right to call him a lying little toerag as the description fitted the situation. I have every faith that he will grow up and mature into a lovely young man but at this precise moment he's a grand PITA!
> 
> I think most parents/close relatives can say that although they love their children/grandchildren/niece/nephew, etc., there are times when they don't actually like them for a short while for something they've done or how they've behaved.
> 
> *Sleeping Lion* Really nice to hear your niece was so much better this time, looking good for a nice relationship between her and your girls in the future .


so sorry to hear that DG.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

*Charlie cant stand kids 
*

*Not one bit!
*

I miss our little mates back home :001_wub: The majority of them were curious and listened to what I said in regards to approaching the dogs. It's lovely to see dogs and kids getting on. But to be fair, Charlie is a tart for anyone who gives him attention...


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## lucyandsandy (Apr 7, 2011)

Meezey said:


> No one is saying it's okay, but if your going to let words on a forum upset you so much that you state you want the mods to delete your account, why wait for a mod just switch your computer off if it upsets you!


You are just commenting on the one person, I was talking about the forum as a whole and others have expressed their upset about flippant comments. You may have an issue against one person but you failed to see the bigger picture of what else was going on and chose to bring the thread back to something that is now not relevant.


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## lucyandsandy (Apr 7, 2011)

Pupcakes said:


> *Charlie cant stand kids
> *
> 
> *Not one bit!
> ...


So cute!! I have to admit that JR'S are the only breed I am hesitant of due to being bitten three times by three different JR'S when I was younger sorry . I am trying not to show this to my kids as I know they can be great little dogs just misunderstood!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lucyandsandy said:


> You are just commenting on the one person, I was talking about the forum as a whole and others have expressed their upset about flippant comments. You may have an issue against one person but you failed to see the bigger picture of what else was going on and chose to bring the thread back to something that is now not relevant.


You''ve lost me?


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

Skinnywhippet said:


> Seeing as it's the season of goodwill towards men and all that...but i'm not sure even the bible says specifically that we have to be nice to horrible bratty children
> 
> So i've just had my bro/sis in law over for the afternoon, together with a lot of other family, and my two nieces. The younger is just over a year old and is fine with the dog. The other is coming up five, and is quite frankly an annoying little spoiled primadonna who apart from lots of other affectations is "scared" of the dog. I kept her on the lead (dog not child  ) until everyone had settled down, but i know that the dog is going to at least go over and sniff Elder Niece once i let her off. So possibly foolishly, i asked bro in law whether she'll cope OK if dog approaches her and am told "oh no, there'll probably be a meltdown". So poor old puppygirl has had to spend the whole afternoon in quarantine, super sad and baffled as to what she's done to deserve not being allowed to play with the kids- she LOVES kids and is totally gentle with them.
> 
> ...




Poor kids...
Our son used to be terrified, and I mean terrified, of dogs.
He never had a 'bad experience' either, how sad if everyone had been of the same opinion as you and thought of him as attention seeking, spoilt or having a silly phobia 

Eventually, buying him his own puppy helped him over it and now he loves dogs but the point is we all have things we are scared of and to brand it 'silly' or call a child that is nervous of an animal all the horrible things you have is so wrong 

As for the children at the skate park, they should be allowed to use it in peace without dogs running round frankly.
at the end of the day some people are scared of dogs.
Just because you like them doesn't mean everyone else will and why should they!
Since when was the skate park for dogs anyway, it was meant for kids?!?!?!
What are they doing inside in the first place....?
Our dog joins us in the park but only if we are the only people in there seeing as it's for children!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

DirtyGertie said:


> *I have four grandchildren and one great grandchild who did not survive and have seen how devastating it can be for the parents* (and grandparents to a degree) so I have every sympathy for anyone who has been or is in this position. However, it doesn't alter the fact that my grandson (almost 11 years old and intelligent) continued to push the boundaries after continued guidance for three years from both me and his mother, and then lied about what my dog did. Tip of the iceberg with him I'm afraid, he's a "me, me, me" and "are you watching me because I will continue to interrupt you until you do" type of child and *I reserve the right to call him a lying little toerag* as the description fitted the situation. I have every faith that he will grow up and mature into a lovely young man but at this precise moment he's a grand PITA!
> 
> I think most parents/close relatives can say that although they love their children/grandchildren/niece/nephew, etc., there are times when they don't actually like them for a short while for something they've done or how they've behaved. .


It's one thing to call a misbehaving child a lying little toerag, or a grand PITA - even (if not especially) if they're relatives, but the OP has taken it to the extreme. At some point, even the best behaved kids will act up and be "lying little toerags" or simply a "grand PITA".

The child mentioned in the OP wasn't misbehaving as such - she was nervous/frightened, and because that "spoilt the OP's day" because she had to keep her dog on a leash/confined, the child was called an attention-seeking little primadonna bratchild.

That's not said in the heat of the moment - certainly not when the OP had to type it out and therefore had time to THINK about what she was saying - what she was calling this child. She only relented and admitted that she knew it wasn't the child's fault, but the parent's after seeing the back-lash. Too late, IMHO. It wasn't the child's _parents _she was attacking in the OP. It was her 5y/o niece. It would serve the OP right if the parents come across this thread, put 2 + 2 together, and next year the OP spends Christmas alone with her dog. At least the dog can then run free in her own house and not be kept on a lead, though, eh?

DG, I'm sorry if this sounds like it's aimed at you. It isn't, but I, for one, am still annoyed at the OP for the context of this thread. I wasn't even going to reply after saying my peace in my first post, until I came across the quoted post above. There is no comparison between the attitudes between you/your grandson and the OP/her niece. I'm sorry for the loss of your great-grandchild.

FWIW, I'm not a parent. I don't want kids, and I agree children can be annoying little whatsits (I don't hate them), but there's a line, and IMHO, the OP crossed it.


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

ouesi said:


> Sorry, had to stop reading the thread, it was making me very sad...
> 
> My trainer and I have spent a lot of time working with all sorts of kids with dog issues and dogs with kid issues, and IMO both deserve nothing but compassion and understanding.
> I am fortunate to have two children with fabulous dog skills who often get called on to work with dogs with kid issues, and I have a dog with fabulous people skills who also gets called on to work with kids with dog issues.
> ...


This ^^^^ I wholeheartedly agree and thank you for posting Ouesi.

Our 'Smallie' (as he is nicknamed ) like your lot has been employed as a stooge kid for some dogs with kid issues of differing degrees. In each case by going gradually and at the dog's pace this has helped lots. In some cases, said dogs have ended up deciding Small was entirely safe and trustworthy and having a good play with him or actively asking to be touched/stroked.

Likewise, after I found out about my rescue girlie's background (and wanting to do some work for her confidence anyway), I employed some friend's very dog savvy kids (who she didn't know) as stooges to work through a few things with her and give her a nice experience. By the end we had her doing sendaways over a set of jumps to one of the girls (armed with a toy to throw for her and a treat as well). 
Very grateful to those girls. She'll never be super confident and always a bit wary with newbies I imagine (and completely understand given what the poor thing was subjected to) but some more positive experiences really help.

With regards to the general nature of this thread. 
Regardless of whether you love dogs, 'hate kids' (don't really get that TBH- we were all kids once!!), loves dogs, not bothered with kids, love both, whatever; just remember:

"There but for for the grace of God I go" (or words to that effect).

You might be that scared kid. 
Or to put it another way; imagine it as the reverse. You have a scared pup, surely you'd want people to show some compassion and be patient with you or even help by acting as stooges.

I understand unreasonable obnoxious behaviours are plain annoying, upsetting and unacceptable, but this genuinely sounds like a pretty insecure kid who was worried and trying to keep a distance.


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

Not had time to read all the posts, so apologies if this has already been said.

I think that some children are picking up a fear of dogs from the things they hear on tv about dog attacks. A young child of maybe 5 or so could hear the dreadful accounts on the news about people getting hurt, even killed by dogs. They wouldn't be able to process the information correctly, that it was a rare thing. They'd pick up the bare facts and interpret it as, dogs have hurt people, dogs can hurt me!

Not a rational thought, but a childs mind doesn't always think in a rational way, and you have to admit that when dog attacks do happen there is always a media frenzy, and it's scary!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Picklelily said:


> That's exactly what I would say I'm in the same position as labman, I would say at the moment my home is mostly child free.
> 
> Hope it won't be in the future as I want Grandchildren but not for ooh at least 10 years.
> 
> *"Looks pointedly over at son"*


Best of luck. I've been looking pointedly at my two for about five years to no avail. I do have two granddogs and a grand cat, though, and used to have a grandsnake, though no longer (*sniff*)


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## Gertrude (Feb 7, 2010)

Gertrude said:


> Well it is a dog chat thread, ... you might get a lot of dog negativity on a child/parent forum ;D


Wow..... A red rep for this post!!!

Harsh!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)




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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

lucyandsandy said:


> So cute!! I have to admit that JR'S are the only breed I am hesitant of due to being bitten three times by three different JR'S when I was younger sorry . I am trying not to show this to my kids as I know they can be great little dogs just misunderstood!


Jacks are lively Terriers who can have hard mouths so I can understand why people are cautious over them, not to say all Jacks are like that though 

Charlie is very good with children and will sit and let them stroke him (as mentioned before he is a tart) very good with little toddlers too, I wouldnt trust him to be off lead around running/screaming kids as he gets too excited and starts to jump up and go mad too!


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