# 32 week dogue de bordeux x nepolitan mastiff needs a home



## sammykins

We are really sad to have to do this and it totally goes against my beliefs of having to rehome an animal, as animals are for life... BUT.....

We bought our father in law a dog as he wanted one (his wife died a few months before and he was feeling lonely), it was a present and he loved the dog to bits!! He is a good georgous looking pup, but and this is why we are having to find him a home, He doesnt seem to like children, he wont go straight to a child and attack but when we visit and i must stress the children do not do anything to provoke the dog, they just go in a sit down and apart from giving the dog a stroke they normally just get on with playing toys etc (they dont run around or tease the dog). Just literally out of the blue the dog will just jump up at the children and snap with a growl!!!! He has badly scratched my son, and he has also had teeth marks on his hand.

He is also food possesive, he had a bone behind the sofa and when one of the kids moved a chair that was in front the of the sofa he came out and bit her! He has also bit my father in laws friend as he went to wipe some crumbs off his shoe (as the dog was eating next to his feet and got the crumbs on his shoe). He has also jumped and growled at my son when he went in the kitchen to get a biscuit! He is so unpredictable we even bought him a muzzle, but that still doesnt prevent him from jumping up and growling. It is such a worry as now no one will go and visit my father in law (he loves his grandchildren so much and he has quite a few!!) he just doenst want the worry of wondering if the dog will attack, especially as he is so young. And i dont think i want to risk any children having a scar for life! 

When hes good he is lovely, and friendly and playful (with adults). He is good on his lead and enjoys going for walks (doesnt pull) but bring a child into the equation and you are on edge.

If you think you would have the time to train Alfred then feel free to contact me, we are in surrey. Otherwise we really would have to consider having him put to sleep.


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## rocco33

I'm sorry, but you cannot rehome an unpredictable dog that has bitten - it would be totally wrong and irresponsible and you should not pass this problem onto someone else.

I would suggest you get a behaviourist in to assess him.


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## sammykins

im not passing a problem onto anyone else, they would know the reason that i am rehoming him for- its the new owners choice, He would be fine with someone that doesnt have children and some people have the time to train these types of dogs, I dont have alot of knowledge and still would rather not have a behavourist, as i think it would just prolong things, he has made his decision and doesnt want the dog, he wants his family!

I wasnt sure where to start and instead of having him put to sleep or given to a pound, i thought giving him to someone for free on a forum like this where people care about animals would be the best thing for him.


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## rocco33

I wasnt sure where to start and instead of having him put to sleep or given to a pound, i thought giving him to someone for free on a forum like this where people care about animals would be the best thing for him.

The pound isn't the place for any dog IMO, but rescue or breed rescue would be the way to go, but no rescue would take him on with his history.



> He would be fine with someone that doesnt have children and some people have the time to train these types of dogs, I dont have alot of knowledge and still would rather not have a behavourist, as i think it would just prolong things, he has made his decision and doesnt want the dog, he wants his family!


You have a dog with serious problems (and a dog that has not yet reached adulthood either) that has attacked your children, bitten your father and a friend of your father and you don't want to use a behaviourist? You just want to give him away to someone who wants to train him? Sorry, I'm a bit gobsmacked by this!



> I wasnt sure where to start and instead of having him put to sleep or given to a pound, i thought giving him to someone for free on a forum like this where people care about animals would be the best thing for him.


The best thing for him would be to get him assessed by a behaviourist and then take it from there. There may be a possibility of rehabilitating him, giving him to someone else is not - there are thousands of dogs with good temperaments in rescue looking for homes as it is.

Is this is a littermate of your own puppy with the leg problems? If so, then I think they have come from a very bad breeder and it is quite possible that this is an inherited temperament problem.


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## sammykins

this IS the puppy who had the leg problems but that has all sorted out now. I cant get hold of the breeder (i have tried that option first) The parents seemed fine and we met them a couple of times, so not too sure its an inheritated problem. They seemed reputable and the problems were due to a fast growth, so cannot be down to breeding, apparently it happens alot in big dogs.

Anyhow other people will have different opinions to yourself on how i am going about trying to rehome him. And my father in law doesnt want to go through all the "getting him better/trained etc" he just wants rid as he is making himself sick with worry and i personally think my father in laws health is alot more important.

Thanks for your opinions anyway


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## RAINYBOW

I totally agree with Rocco, this dog needs specialist assesment and very careful re homing if that is at all possible.

Just because people don't have children it doesn't mean the dog might not come into contact with children and the food aggression is clearly a big problem. This dog could still potentially make quite a mess of an adult if it attacked.


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## RAINYBOW

sammykins said:


> this IS the puppy who had the leg problems but that has all sorted out now. I cant get hold of the breeder (i have tried that option first) The parents seemed fine and we met them a couple of times, so not too sure its an inheritated problem. They seemed reputable and the problems were due to a fast growth, so cannot be down to breeding, apparently it happens alot in big dogs.
> 
> Anyhow other people will have different opinions to yourself on how i am going about trying to rehome him. And my father in law doesnt want to go through all the "getting him better/trained etc" he just wants rid as he is making himself sick with worry and i personally think my father in laws health is alot more important.
> 
> Thanks for your opinions anyway


Then why not contact a rescue who can take the dog and all the stress of assesing and re homing it  Surely thats a better option than offering him on an open forum where anyone could get hold of him ?? There are people who would take this dog on for all the wrong reasons and you really have no way of vetting against that.


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## Cleo38

sammykins said:


> *We are really sad to have to do this and it totally goes against my beliefs of having to rehome an animal, as animals are for life... BUT.....*
> We bought our father in law a dog as he wanted one (his wife died a few months before and he was feeling lonely), it was a present and he loved the dog to bits!! He is a good georgous looking pup, but and this is why we are having to find him a home, He doesnt seem to like children, he wont go straight to a child and attack but when we visit and i must stress the children do not do anything to provoke the dog, they just go in a sit down and apart from giving the dog a stroke they normally just get on with playing toys etc (they dont run around or tease the dog). Just literally out of the blue the dog will just jump up at the children and snap with a growl!!!! He has badly scratched my son, and he has also had teeth marks on his hand.
> 
> He is also food possesive, he had a bone behind the sofa and when one of the kids moved a chair that was in front the of the sofa he came out and bit her! He has also bit my father in laws friend as he went to wipe some crumbs off his shoe (as the dog was eating next to his feet and got the crumbs on his shoe). He has also jumped and growled at my son when he went in the kitchen to get a biscuit! He is so unpredictable we even bought him a muzzle, but that still doesnt prevent him from jumping up and growling. It is such a worry as now no one will go and visit my father in law (he loves his grandchildren so much and he has quite a few!!) he just doenst want the worry of wondering if the dog will attack, especially as he is so young. And i dont think i want to risk any children having a scar for life!
> 
> When hes good he is lovely, and friendly and playful (with adults). He is good on his lead and enjoys going for walks (doesnt pull) but bring a child into the equation and you are on edge.
> 
> If you think you would have the time to train Alfred then feel free to contact me, we are in surrey. Otherwise we really would have to consider having him put to sleep.


Why does nearly everyone who rehomes their pets say this .....??? Do you not see the irony of this statement??!!!

As advised above you cannot expect to rehome a dog that is behaving like this. Rescue centres are fit to burst at the moment with dogs that do not have issues such as this & still they cannot find homes.

You need to put some work in to this dog, you owe this animal that. How can you say that you don't want to get a behaviourist in, you FIL just 'wants rid' & doesn't want to gop through all the worry???!!!!

I can't believe someone can come on a PET forum with such disregard for an animlas life. You seriously can't be bothered to put some work in to an animal that will probably otherwise be put to sleep/killed?????!!!!

I feel sick just thinking of this .... that poor, poor dog. I am amazed that you can be so flippant about a life ....


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## sammykins

your not in my situation so dont be too harsh to judge! 

I have contacted a local rescue place where my friend works and they have a non destruct policy! but apprently she said this type of breed is a very hard type to tran as they are 2 big guard dogs in one. So they will or can be bity to others.


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## hawksport

If you are not prepared to put the work in to rehab him do the responsible thing and have him pts yourself


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## Nonnie

Im going to be rather unpopular here, but imo, i think if an owner is unwilling to be responsible for the animal they decided to purchase and home, then they should take it to the vets and be in the room as the dogs life is ended.

Rehoming or palming the dog off onto a rescue is both unfair and irresponsible. 

No kill shelters dont always have the dogs best interest at heart, and a dog like this is likely to sit around for months, if not years. How that psychologically affects an animal, god only knows. I can only imagine lack of socialisation, training, exercise and most likely a poorer quality diet will create a very frustrated, low tolerance dog. 

If a dog this young is already showing signs of aggression, then it should be removed from circulation if professional help wont be sought.

Rehoming such a dog either privately or through a centre, is irresponsible and downright dangerous.


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## hawksport

Nonnie said:


> Im going to be rather unpopular here, but imo, i think if an owner is unwilling to be responsible for the animal they decided to purchase and home, then they should take it to the vets and be in the room as the dogs life is ended.
> 
> Rehoming or palming the dog off onto a rescue is both unfair and irresponsible.
> 
> No kill shelters dont always have the dogs best interest at heart, and a dog like this is likely to sit around for months, if not years. How that psychologically affects an animal, god only knows. I can only imagine lack of socialisation, training, exercise and most likely a poorer quality diet will create a very frustrated, low tolerance dog.
> 
> If a dog this young is already showing signs of aggression, then it should be removed from circulation if professional help wont be sought.
> 
> Rehoming such a dog either privately or through a centre, is irresponsible and downright dangerous.


Absoloutely, and while that one is taking up kennel space how many others will be turned away?


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## rocco33

> Im going to be rather unpopular here, but imo, i think if an owner is unwilling to be responsible for the animal they decided to purchase and home, then they should take it to the vets and be in the room as the dogs life is ended.
> 
> Rehoming or palming the dog off onto a rescue is both unfair and irresponsible.
> 
> No kill shelters dont always have the dogs best interest at heart, and a dog like this is likely to sit around for months, if not years. How that psychologically affects an animal, god only knows. I can only imagine lack of socialisation, training, exercise and most likely a poorer quality diet will create a very frustrated, low tolerance dog.
> 
> If a dog this young is already showing signs of aggression, then it should be removed from circulation if professional help wont be sought.
> 
> Rehoming such a dog either privately or through a centre, is irresponsible and downright dangerous.


I completely agree - and I suspect many others will.

However, there is a real danger here that Sammykins doesn't seem to realise the responsibility she has.

This puppy was bought as a present 
When it developed leg problems she wanted to send it back to the breeder (but breeder didn't want it).
Doesn't want to get a behaviourist in - just wants rid of it.

Sadly, this is not as uncommon as it should be, but at least if it is rescue, there won't be any chance of it being rehomed to an unsuitable home. The chances of finding a good home for this young dog is extremely slim to zero. The chances of an interested owner who may give all the 'right' answers but will be looking to use it as a stud or even a 'status' dog (given the breed) are high.


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## hawksport

Which is why they should be in the room when the needle goes in


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## rocco33

> I have contacted a local rescue place where my friend works and they have a non destruct policy! but apprently she said this type of breed is a very hard type to tran as they are 2 big guard dogs in one.


While I agree with the others that the responsible thing would be to take the dog to the vets and pts if you are not prepared to be responsible for it yourself, then I think this is your only option. At least this way the dog will not fall into the wrong hands which is highly likely if you try to rehome it yourself. A rescue with a non-kill policy will still pts if the dog is ill or has aggressive issues that make it impossible to rehome - but hey - at least it won't be your responsibility and on your conscience.


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## Cleo38

Nonnie said:


> Im going to be rather unpopular here, but imo, i think if an owner is unwilling to be responsible for the animal they decided to purchase and home, then they should take it to the vets and be in the room as the dogs life is ended.
> 
> Rehoming or palming the dog off onto a rescue is both unfair and irresponsible.
> 
> No kill shelters dont always have the dogs best interest at heart, and a dog like this is likely to sit around for months, if not years. How that psychologically affects an animal, god only knows. I can only imagine lack of socialisation, training, exercise and most likely a poorer quality diet will create a very frustrated, low tolerance dog.
> 
> If a dog this young is already showing signs of aggression, then it should be removed from circulation if professional help wont be sought.
> 
> Rehoming such a dog either privately or through a centre, is irresponsible and downright dangerous.


Completely agree. I also think that in this case the owners should be made to go in to the room with the poor dog & look him in the eye as they have him killed due to their complete lack of responsibility & compassion for this animal.

Personally, i couldn't live with myself if I had acted in such a callous & cold hearted way but i'm sure they all get over it very quickly & get another animal that they then decided isn't worth the effort.

Not judging??? I'm sorry but I have *NEVER *& *WOULD NEVER *be in a position where I couldn't be bothered to help my dog & would rather he was killed due to my own complacency. I can't understand why people like you & your FIL get animals if you really don't want to put the work in ......


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## hawksport

The dog has bit at least three times, twice over food, yet is stil allowed to be with a child with a biscuit. That is just insane


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## sammykins

thanks for all your messages, firstly the breeder was happy to have him back in the end after the feet problem, but my father in law decided to keep him as he didnt want him back in the hands of the breeder, as he was unsure that he would of had him pts.

Secondly, he wasnt an unexpected "PRESENT" my father in law wanted a dog so we got it for when it was his birthday! it was a present as such as "We" paid for it! Anyhow i dont want the dog pts, i think as he is only a pup he could grow out of this with the correct training. Unfortunately my father in law doesnt want to keep the dog as he is worried it could possibly pin one of the children down and savage one of them! this isnt to say that he will but as he has shown a bit of aggression (bitten twice, not a bad bite but still drawn a little blood) could of been that he just mouthed the person and caught him on his baby teeth, who knows. But he has growled at my oldest son whilst jumping up on him. We just would rather not take the risk im sorry but children are more important than a dog in my eyes. But apart from this he is a lovely dog and he would be well suited to a couple and with the correct training even around children in time.

I am against putting them to sleep, but feel there is a right home for him out there somewhere. Anyway he is being rehomed to a rescue place and they will have him assessed etc and given that he is only young they will be able to train him and place him with the correct new family.

So im pleased that i dont have to kill him (cant believe your saying "look into his eyes whilst he gets put to sleep! thats very cruel and harsh!) Im sorry but at the end of the day its my father in laws decision its his dog not mine. And i childmind so theres no way i would have him here, I would rather keep my kids safe "just in case" he was to do something. 

He doesnt get possesive if someone else is eating food, just if he has his food or if you go into the kitchen near his food jar.

So my kids sitting down having a biscuit wont bother him at all. I wouldnt give my child a biscuit if i thought the dog would bite him because of it - i do have a brain!!

anyway i appreciate all your comments and in future we will know not to buy a guard dog especially a cross breed, that is supposed to be good with children as with any dog you never know what your going to get and how they will react to any situation, 

I do feel very sad and so does my father in law as he is a little character, but he is unpredictable


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## Guest

sammykins said:


> I wasnt sure where to start and instead of having him put to sleep or given to a pound, i thought giving him to someone for free on a forum like this where people care about animals would be the best thing for him.


The best and kindest thing you can do for this guy is to see if you can find a local rescue (NOT THE RSPCA) to take him! Sounds as though he has had no socializing and the problem will not being getting any better! He needs a 'special' person to take him on! and personally I do not think you would know the right person if they jumped up and hit you in the face! 
DT


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## missevee

sammykins said:


> sorry but children are more important than a dog in my eyes.
> 
> 
> sammykins said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why was there more then 1 bite to a child? If any dog drew blood on my children i wouldnt let my children near that dog again.
Click to expand...


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## sammykins

Yes i have found a rescue that deals with large dogs, luckily enough my friend who rescues has found me the correct person. And i feel happy that he is going to her, they have a non destruct policy and really do help the dogs out.

I just came on here first thing this morning as i couldnt get hold of her and thought that someone who is experienced with this kind of dog could provide a nice home, to prevent him having to go to a resuce place. But at least this way i will get to see how he is getting on etc. And yep it looks like i have a great rescue that has come up and slapped me in the face.

You lot really are a cheery bunch!


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## Guest

And it would be a nice gesture if you gave the 'said' rescue a nice hefty donation for all the time and commitment they are about to apply of the pup!
Rescues finaces are strethed to the limit at the moment!
DT


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## sammykins

i already donate to a dog rescue, thanks for your advice though


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## lauren001

This is a very similar cross to the puppies that someone was trying to advertise...... sorry, ask for help about recently.

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/115938-can-you-ruin-bitchs-pedigree-mating-her-cross.html

Is this a common cross?

People crossing different types of mastiff together, because perhaps it is difficult to source animals of the same breed.


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## sammykins

missevee said:


> sammykins said:
> 
> 
> 
> sorry but children are more important than a dog in my eyes.
> 
> 
> sammykins said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why was there more then 1 bite to a child? If any dog drew blood on my children i wouldnt let my children near that dog again.
> 
> 
> 
> im not sure you have read my messages but, there was only 1 bite to a child when she was near to his bone and a bite to a man when he was near his bone (or should i say the dog was near him with his bone) the other couple of times he has jumped up on my son and growled when he was walking across the room, but we bought him a muzzle for when we visit (for just in case he was to bite). He has only just bitten a child last weekend, and we were only told of the bite when we visited yesterday. But no child is going to visit whilst the dog is there, we did put him in the garden but all we had were complaints from neighbours due to his barking.
> 
> He has only bitten twice, but he does jump up on my son and sometimes growls, he only does it once when we are there in a 4 hour period, every time we go and visit, which is once a week. We just thought that was a dominance thing to show he was in charge of my son, but we didnt think he would actually bite - but that has started to happen when someone is near his food. Although he doesnt growl to my father in law.
> 
> So yes my children are more important than an unpredictable dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Cleo38

sammykins said:


> We are really sad to have to do this and it totally goes against my beliefs of having to rehome an animal, as animals are for life... BUT.....
> 
> *We bought our father in law a dog as he wanted one *(his wife died a few months before and he was feeling lonely), it was a present and he loved the dog to bits!! He is a good georgous looking pup, but and this is why we are having to find him a home, He doesnt seem to like children, he wont go straight to a child and attack but when we visit and i must stress the children do not do anything to provoke the dog, they just go in a sit down and apart from giving the dog a stroke they normally just get on with playing toys etc (they dont run around or tease the dog). Just literally out of the blue the dog will just jump up at the children and snap with a growl!!!! He has badly scratched my son, and he has also had teeth marks on his hand.
> 
> He is also food possesive, he had a bone behind the sofa and when one of the kids moved a chair that was in front the of the sofa he came out and bit her! He has also bit my father in laws friend as he went to wipe some crumbs off his shoe (as the dog was eating next to his feet and got the crumbs on his shoe). He has also jumped and growled at my son when he went in the kitchen to get a biscuit! *He is so unpredictable we even bought him a muzzle, but that still doesnt prevent him from jumping up and growling*. It is such a worry as now no one will go and visit my father in law (he loves his grandchildren so much and he has quite a few!!) he just doenst want the worry of wondering if the dog will attack, especially as he is so young. And i dont think i want to risk any children having a scar for life!
> 
> When hes good he is lovely, and friendly and playful (with adults). He is good on his lead and enjoys going for walks (doesnt pull) but bring a child into the equation and you are on edge.
> 
> *If you think you would have the time to train Alfred then feel free to contact me, we are in surrey. Otherwise we really would have to consider having him put to sleep*.





sammykins said:


> im not passing a problem onto anyone else, they would know the reason that i am rehoming him for- its the new owners choice, He would be fine with someone that doesnt have children and some people *have the time to train these types of dogs*, *I dont have alot of knowledge and still would rather not have a behavourist, as i think it would just prolong things, he has made his decision and doesnt want the dog*, he wants his family!
> 
> I wasnt sure where to start and instead of having him put to sleep or given to a pound, i thought giving him to someone for free on a forum like this *where people care about animals *would be the best thing for him.


You have done nothing with this dog except pass the buck. What sort of training have you done with him? A muzzle will not stop jumping up & growling, what have you done regarding food possessiveness?

You seem to have done virtually no research in to this dog, the breed or how to train him correctly so now the poor dog will probably pay with his life.

He is a young dog but already you have decided that you will not be getting a behaviourist in. I think this is a foum for people who care about their animals which makes me wonder .... why are you on here?

This has got nothing to do with putting a child before a dog this is just a classic example of a young dog behaving in the way alot do when people can't be bothered to train them or put any effort in.

People like you should NEVER EVER have dogs.

And as for cruel to watch him be killed because you & your family can't be bothered? How is this cruel? What on earth do you really think happens to dogs that are counsidered aggressive? They go & live with some lovely family who want a dog with problems????! But then again spending the rest of his life in kennels is hardly a life worth living either


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## sequeena

There's a moral to this story... never buy an animal as a gift!


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## rocco33

> There's a moral to this story... never buy an animal as a gift!


Never take a puppy/dog on unless you are prepared to put some effort into training it.


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## Cleo38

rocco33 said:


> Never take a puppy/dog on unless you are prepared to put some effort into training it.


Here, here!!! God, this has made me so angry. I can't believe how little this poor dogs life seems to have been valued by it's owner


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## sequeena

rocco33 said:


> Never take a puppy/dog on unless you are prepared to put some effort into training it.


That too but never give an animal as a gift. Right away the animal is seen as disposable.


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## simplysardonic

sequeena said:


> There's a moral to this story... never buy an animal as a gift!


Wise words hun
Is this the dog with the poorly legs


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## RAINYBOW

Sorry but for me this is one of the saddest threads i have seen in a long time  

Talk about "Pass the buck" You can see now why JSR gets so flaming angry on here sometimes when people like her have to pick up the pieces when someone takes on a breed like this and then can't be arsed (and lets not beat around the bush here, thats what it is) to deal with it so dumps the problem on the Rescue. 

Defend all you like, sugar coat it til you are blue in the face, Oh yes you convince yourself, i am sure there are loads of homes out there just "waiting" for this particular cross with Resource Guarding and a bite history :thumbup:  :frown:


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## sequeena

RAINYBOW said:


> Sorry but for me this is one of the saddest threads i have seen in a long time
> 
> Talk about "Pass the buck" You can see now why JSR gets so flaming angry on here sometimes when people like her have to pick up the pieces when someone takes on a breed like this and then can't be arsed (and lets not beat around the bush here, thats what it is) to deal with it so dumps the problem on the Rescue.
> 
> Defend all you like, sugar coat it til you are blue in the face, Oh yes you convince yourself, i am sure there are loads of homes out there just "waiting" for this particular cross with Resource Guarding and a bite history :thumbup:  :frown:


Well said Rainy.


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## Guest

RAINYBOW said:


> Sorry but for me this is one of the saddest threads i have seen in a long time
> 
> Talk about "Pass the buck" You can see now why JSR gets so flaming angry on here sometimes when people like her have to pick up the pieces when someone takes on a breed like this and then can't be arsed (and lets not beat around the bush here, thats what it is) to deal with it so dumps the problem on the Rescue.
> 
> Defend all you like, sugar coat it til you are blue in the face, Oh yes you convince yourself, i am sure there are loads of homes out there just "waiting" for this particular cross with Resource Guarding and a bite history :thumbup:  :frown:


Would have repped ya for that Rainybowbow!
But it sez I have to spread it around:thumbup::thumbup:
Just told Terry!


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## sequeena

DoubleTrouble said:


> Would have repped ya for that Rainybowbow!
> But it sez I have to spread it around:thumbup::thumbup:
> Just told Terry!


I repped her for you DT


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## Guest

sequeena said:


> I repped her for you DT


Thanks sequeena! much appreciated!! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## sammykins

so you suggest that he keeps it then so that it might have the possibility of biting a child and leaving a scar? it could take a while to train this dog not to become aggresive, and in that time we dont want to take chances. As i said before its my father in laws decision its his dog and he wanted the dog thats why we got it for him and yes getting it fell on his birthday!!!! it wasnt a surprise present - cant you lot read! i would understand if we bought a dog for someone that didnt want one. Thats a different story and would be totally irresponsible.

You lot just have a one track mind- a very negetive one at that!! i doubt its one of the saddest threads you have ever read, i am trying to find him a nice home with someone experienced in this type of breed!! im not beating the crap out of him! he might just be going through a phase who knows, but my father in law doesnt want to take any risks. I wouldnt say its passing the buck, its actually being sensible!! and i dont think its fair to have him pts. 

I do very much care about animals, i have quite a few and have even rescued a few myself-once i have a pet its for life, so i know the cue! But as i have said many times this dog is not mine and i can understand that my father is law now feels very sad to have to get him rehomed, but at least then his family will come and visit him again (as their are 12 grandchildren in all) he loves them so much and after his wife passing away he needs him family not a dog that could "possibly" really harm a child! but who knows he might be fine with an older couple and he might only need a little bit of training to tow him back into line. And im sure there are many people who love this type of dog and would love to home one to prevent it being pts!


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## sequeena

How about taking responsibility for what is yours and trying to resolve the problem before you pass it on to some poor sod 

FFS I have a dog aggressive mastiff and it makes me sick to think if she'd gone to YOUR family she'd be chucked out like a piece of rubbish.


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## RAINYBOW

I have a cocker who had resource guarding issues, i am a childminder and have to kids of my own, 24/7. I dealt with it  Resource guarding IS solvable and you always have to apply certain rules which would have been a piece of cake if i hadn't had kids living in the house. 

If the children are visiting only why can the dog not be put out or in another room :confused1:

Then get a behaviourist in and deal with it. 

You clearly think it's solvable or not such a big deal as you think it would be fine for someone else to take on ???


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## Guest

sammykins said:


> so you suggest that he keeps it then so that it might have the possibility of biting a child and leaving a scar? it could take a while to train this dog not to become aggresive, and in that time we dont want to take chances. As i said before its my father in laws decision its his dog and he wanted the dog thats why we got it for him and yes getting it fell on his birthday!!!! it wasnt a surprise present - cant you lot read! i would understand if we bought a dog for someone that didnt want one. Thats a different story and would be totally irresponsible.
> 
> You lot just have a one track mind- a very negetive one at that!! i doubt its one of the saddest threads you have ever read, i am trying to find him a nice home with someone experienced in this type of breed!! im not beating the crap out of him! he might just be going through a phase who knows, but my father in law doesnt want to take any risks. I wouldnt say its passing the buck, its actually being sensible!! and i dont think its fair to have him pts.
> 
> I do very much care about animals, i have quite a few and have even rescued a few myself-once i have a pet its for life, so i know the cue! But as i have said many times this dog is not mine and i can understand that my father is law now feels very sad to have to get him rehomed, but at least then his family will come and visit him again (as their are 12 grandchildren in all) he loves them so much and after his wife passing away he needs him family not a dog that could "possibly" really harm a child! but who knows he might be fine with an older couple and he might only need a little bit of training to tow him back into line. And im sure there are many people who love this type of dog and would love to home one to prevent it being pts!


You have hit the nail on the head there! It is going to take time to socialize this dog! Training takes time and Money! We are now past the appealing puppy stage!! So pass the problem on - someone else (JSR( will pick up the pieces!! thats the gist of it ain't it! Problem gone, out of site out of mind! Doesn't really matter what happens to the dog so long as he's from under your feet!!!

You care about animals! please!! don't make me laff! you took this pup on irresponsibly, Why the hell did you choose such a breed? Did you not do your homework? Why have you not been to puppy class! why wait until he is 32 weeks to address the problems??

And at the end of a day if you are that worried about him biting you children then maybe you should consider the consequences on any children he may encounter in the future! You contridict yourself here! emphazing the impostance of your own children, but almost discounting that of others! You just want him out!! admit it!

Sorry mate!! but the problems here are all due to bad socialization!

And I know about this more then most having a nine year old here that I took on a just a year old who had been damaged beyond repair!! It is a lifelong job reassurring a dog that is damaged in this way! I can read my dog like a book! It took me years to do that!! BUT my time is free!

As I said before a hefty donation would be nice!
DT


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## sammykins

well its not my dog and not my decision at the end of the day, i cant have it here and train it with 8 children around - that would be very irresponsible. I dont think my father in law expected to get an aggresive dog and if you were a lonely widow whos family wouldnt visit you because of the dog im sure you would have a very different view to what you have now! but unless your in that situation you will never know. He also has a neighbour who is 80 or so come to visit and he is also worried for her "just in case" he turns on her! cant have that sorry. When we looked into the breed it did say good with children, so we did read up on it first!


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## RAINYBOW

sammykins said:


> well its not my dog and not my decision at the end of the day, i cant have it here and train it with 8 children around - that would be very irresponsible. I dont think my father in law expected to get an aggresive dog and if you were a lonely widow whos family wouldnt visit you because of the dog im sure you would have a very different view to what you have now! but unless your in that situation you will never know. He also has a neighbour who is 80 or so come to visit and he is also worried for her "just in case" he turns on her! cant have that sorry. When we looked into the breed it did say good with children, so we did read up on it first!


So what makes you think this dog can/should be rehomed if it can't interact with children and he is worried about adult visitors also.

So looking for a single or couple with no friends who never go out but have the energy and strength and money it will take to rehabilitate/train this dog.


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## sequeena

I've never heard such a load of shite. You've not got a breed, you've got a cross like my girl. How could you possibly know how friendly the dog would be. How does anyone know? Do they do temperament tests these days?

At the end of the day if your FIL really wanted to try, he would, but he doesn't so now this poor dog has to suffer.


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## Guest

sequeena said:


> I've never heard such a load of shite. You've not got a breed, you've got a cross like my girl. How could you possibly know how friendly the dog would be. How does anyone know? Do they do temperament tests these days?
> 
> At the end of the day if your FIL really wanted to try, he would, but he doesn't so now this poor dog has to suffer.


And if the FIL was really prepared to solve the problem then he could cage the dog in another room whilst visitors were present!


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## sequeena

DoubleTrouble said:


> And if the FIL was really prepared to solve the problem then he could cage the dog in another room whilst visitors were present!


No DT that's too much of a hardship 

Crates aren't that expensive either actually. I got mine off Ebay for £40. It's completely metal including the tray and hold a 7 stone mastiff without problems. I'm willing to give OP the link but think I would be wasting my breath.


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## RAINYBOW

DoubleTrouble said:


> And if the FIL was really prepared to solve the problem then he could cage the dog in another room whilst visitors were present!


Thats my point, i could understand all this if the children actually lived there because this is a seriously powerful dog and i wouldn't risk it but its just him and the dog :frown:


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## Guest

Just out of curiosity can I ask how old the father in law is please?


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## sammykins

DoubleTrouble said:


> You have hit the nail on the head there! It is going to take time to socialize this dog! Training takes time and Money! We are now past the appealing puppy stage!! So pass the problem on - someone else (JSR( will pick up the pieces!! thats the gist of it ain't it! Problem gone, out of site out of mind! Doesn't really matter what happens to the dog so long as he's from under your feet!!!
> 
> You care about animals! please!! don't make me laff! you took this pup on irresponsibly, Why the hell did you choose such a breed? Did you not do your homework? Why have you not been to puppy class! why wait until he is 32 weeks to address the problems??
> 
> And at the end of a day if you are that worried about him biting you children then maybe you should consider the consequences on any children he may encounter in the future! You contridict yourself here! emphazing the impostance of your own children, but almost discounting that of others! You just want him out!! admit it!
> 
> Sorry mate!! but the problems here are all due to bad socialization!
> 
> And I know about this more then most having a nine year old here that I took on a just a year old who had been damaged beyond repair!! It is a lifelong job reassurring a dog that is damaged in this way! I can read my dog like a book! It took me years to do that!! BUT my time is free!
> 
> As I said before a hefty donation would be nice!
> DT


He is quite far from the appealing puppy stage - he is the cutest dog you have ever seen, its not about having a puppy and getting rid! its because he is unpredictable with children! and when he is good he is really good! but who knows how bad he could get. And when we did look into this breed it didnt say anywhere that they are aggressive! We knew the size he would get etc, but we are worried that due to the size of him and having mouthed /bit twice he could be VERY dangerous.


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## sammykins

RAINYBOW said:


> Thats my point, i could understand all this if the children actually lived there because this is a seriously powerful dog and i wouldn't risk it but its just him and the dog :frown:


he has 13 grandchildren that see him on a very regular basis. so i dont think that makes a difference if they live there are not.


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## Guest

sammykins said:


> he has 13 grandchildren that see him on a very regular basis. so i dont think that makes a difference if they live there are not.


And he were that lonely he wanted a dog! suprised he has time with all them kiddies visiting!


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## simplysardonic

Have you discussed seeing a behaviourist with your F-I-L?


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## sammykins

sequeena said:


> No DT that's too much of a hardship
> 
> Crates aren't that expensive either actually. I got mine off Ebay for £40. It's completely metal including the tray and hold a 7 stone mastiff without problems. I'm willing to give OP the link but think I would be wasting my breath.


yep i know where to buy a crate from thanks and have even mentioned it to my father in law, i have mentioned training etc to him and even asked for advice from others on how to train him. But with such a strong breed (oh sorry cross) with having 2 guard dogs into one it would be very difficult to train him and with this in mind being that he is behaving in this way its not worth it if he turns and harms a child in the meanwhile especially as he is only going to get bigger and stronger. I didnt actually choose this breed myself my other half did, and yes i was very angry at him for getting such a large dog as i wasnt sure how he would be with the kids, but the breeder didnt have any problems with any other pups (so he said) so we took his word that it was a good safe breed to have.


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## Guest

simplysardonic said:


> Have you discussed seeing a behaviourist with your F-I-L?


What that intentional:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## sequeena

Folding 48" Dog & Puppy Cage Crate EXtra X Large Black on eBay (end time 11-Aug-10 10:58:00 BST)

I have two of these. One for my mastiff and one for the shepherd. No complaints whatsoever!


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## sequeena

sammykins said:


> yep i know where to buy a crate from thanks and have even mentioned it to my father in law, i have mentioned training etc to him and even asked for advice from others on how to train him. But with such a strong breed (oh sorry cross) with having 2 guard dogs into one it would be very difficult to train him and with this in mind being that he is behaving in this way its not worth it if he turns and harms a child in the meanwhile especially as he is only going to get bigger and stronger. I didnt actually choose this breed myself my other half did, and yes i was very angry at him for getting such a large dog as i wasnt sure how he would be with the kids, but the breeder didnt have any problems with any other pups (so he said) so we took his word that it was a good safe breed to have.


!!! Yes you are right the 2 breeds are a cross 

Wasn't the dog a present from yourselves??
Should never have got a guarding cross without realising the type of work involved!!!


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## sequeena

Oh and you won't have a problem if the dog is put in a crate when the children are there. But hey ho if the dog DOES bite a child what a brilliant excuse to get rid even quicker


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## rocco33

> I dont think my father in law expected to get an aggresive dog





> When we looked into the breed it did say good with children, so we did read up on it first!


I don't think for one minute he was born this way, he is a result of the lack of care and training he has been given. What were you expecting a fully trained puppy that would just integrate into a home without any bother because you've read that the breed was good with children?

This case has really sickened my, not just because of the pointless waste, but because of your attitude - you still can't see anything wrong  

Quite frankly the only animals you should keep are stuffed toys.

And just to reply to your comment at the beginning of the thread.



> Anyhow other people will have different opinions to yourself on how i am going about trying to rehome him.


I'm hugely relieved not to be the only one that thinks this way.


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## Guest

rocco33 said:


> Quite frankly the only animals you should keep are stuffed toys.


Glad to see you have been over generous!:thumbup:


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## simplysardonic

DoubleTrouble said:


> What that intentional:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


My tongue may have slipped into my cheek slightly


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## Guest

simplysardonic said:


> My tongue may have slipped into my cheek slightly


Well you tonue slipping in your cheek hit the nail well and truely square on the head me finks:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## sammykins

DoubleTrouble said:


> And he were that lonely he wanted a dog! suprised he has time with all them kiddies visiting!


your full of wit! yes he does get lonely - his wife has just died!! and having a dog around the house to love and keep him company is just what he wants! the children obviously visit during the day! for a few hours and seeing as you get 24 hours in a day for at least 20 hours he will be on his own!!


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## sammykins

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well you tonue slipping in your cheek hit the nail well and truely square on the head me finks:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


dont quite get your sarcasm! im far to intelligent for stupid playground behaviour! god grow up!


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## RAINYBOW

sammykins said:


> your full of wit! yes he does get lonely - his wife has just died!! and having a dog around the house to love and keep him company is just what he wants! the children obviously visit during the day! for a few hours and seeing as you get 24 hours in a day for at least 20 hours he will be on his own!!


I am a childminder and Mum so i have kids here all the time. My dog gets a good walk in the mroning then happily spends about 3 or 4 hours in the kitchen sleeping while the kids play because obvioulsy i cant maintain 100% supervision all the time.

It is workable 

If he has an outside space i see no reason why a kennel for a few hours a day while the kids visit is a big issue. Nice big bone out there as long as he is exercised well and introduced carefully to it 

These are the sorts of things anyone re homing him is going to have to consider doing anyway.


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## Guest

sammykins said:


> your full of wit! yes he does get lonely - his wife has just died!! and having a dog around the house to love and keep him company is just what he wants! the children obviously visit during the day! for a few hours and seeing as you get 24 hours in a day for at least 20 hours he will be on his own!!


Do your sums sweetie! take twenty from twenty four! you are left with four! Four should NOT be a problem!! should you genuinely want to overcome it!
DT


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## RAINYBOW

By taking these steps you can give this VERY young dog some time to be fully assesed and treated. IF the problems cant be resolved then having him PTS may be the only option but at least you will have done all you could and not passed that painful decision/task on to someone else 

If the dog is Insured this treatment may well be coverred under the Insurance, new owners will never get Insurance with his history now so will have to be prepared to invest time and money. Thats alot to ask of someone which makes me worry that someone is going to take him on without really understanding the responsibility and work/money involved, they may just see the "cute pup" and think it will all be OK (very dangerous IMO) .


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## simplysardonic

sammykins said:


> your full of wit! yes he does get lonely - his wife has just died!! and having a dog around the house to love and keep him company is just what he wants! the children obviously visit during the day! for a few hours and seeing as you get 24 hours in a day for at least 20 hours he will be on his own!!


You will have to explain to any potential new owner that the dog has issues, you will have to list every incident so the potential owner knows EXACTLY what they're letting themselves in for. I don't understand why you F-I-L is unwilling to get in a behaviourist, the dog is young & the behaviours can be overcome, especially if he has 20 hours to devote to his dog in between grandchildren visiting. I'm not trying to have a go, I just hate seeing dogs of this type passed from pillar to post without at least someone trying to do something about behaviour. The rescues are full of them already


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## Acacia86

While a portion of the blame lies with those who bought the dog most of it lies with the Father In Law. 

He wanted a dog, he got a dog, he can't be bothered with the dog as it has problems, he gets rid. Never mind 'fixing' him first, no can't be bothered its only a dog someone else will do it, or just kill him. It doesn't matter.  

Typical of todays society sadly. A throw away, can't be assed, get another one another day society. 

Thanks heavens i didn't do this with my rescue Springer! I was already his 4th home and he was only 3. He was untrained, extremely unhappy, depressed and scared. I spent a lot of money and a hell of a lot of time with him he is now 80% perfect. Funny that eh?! 

This ''man'' is really no man at all, having a dog is about being selfless and putting its health, happiness and welfare BEFORE your own. He chose to have a dog therefore he should ENSURE the dogs welfare and happiness first. That means sorting through any problems and making the dog is the happiest he possibly can be.......this poor dog is far from it  

The truth is that NO ONE wants to spend the money getting him sorted with a behaviourist, and no can be BOTHERED. Thats the long and short of it. 

Just like they never bothered training/socialising etc him properly in the beginning. 

This has made me so cross and upset. Such a pathetic situation. 

Oh and for the record i DO understand about the child situation i have a 4 year old myself. But i am sorry this 'man' should not have any children around until he has sorted this poor dog out with a very good, positive method behavourist, and found him the perfect home with responsible owners. Thats not to say he can not see his Grandchildren it just means he has to go to them or go with them etc 

Poor poor dog. Its just as well not everyone gives up as quickly as others.......mind you when responsible, good dog owners, decide to add a dog to the family have reasearched the breed(s) bought it themselves from GOOD breeders, TRAINED and SOCIALISED it properly......then the is rarely problems and they certainly do not esculate like this one. 


P.S If this post is badly spelt and you cannot understand it, sorry but i have not double checked it i have just typed and posted.


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## sammykins

i wouldnt worry he is going to a rescue that deals specifically with his breed so im sure he will get people who are interested and will get home checked and placed with the right person! 

and to the sarcastic one ... yes he may have children visiting for a few hours a day.... but hey he has to go for walkies daily and their are children past that big door out in the open! Who knows..... seeing how strong he can be "if" he fancied pulling on his lead and taking a chunk he will! 

Also he has his neighbour popping in at all times of the day, unexpected! anyway putting him in a cage is not actually solving the problem, it just delaying it! Im positive their is a new home for him somewhere.


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## Acacia86

Oh and just to add.

While i give my condolences for the loss of his wife having a dog to fill that void is all wrong.

My own father was widowed when i was 4 years old and my brother 6. He was terribly lonely having to work, bring us up and we do not have a huge family so he did get very lonely.

Even worse me nor my brother live at home anymore so he is alone in his house (but does see people everyday)

Doe she have a dog??

No he does not. Why? Because he knows he can not offer it the right home at this stage in life. Thats not to say he doesn't want one! But he is putting the dog before himself even though he hasn't got one!


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## sequeena

That's ok Sammy pass him on, to give him a kennel another rescue may have to take its last walk! No worries, they'll sort it out. Perhaps you'll all go to the pub after and have a lovely meal while this poor pup is shivering, scared and completely confused in its new 'home'.

This entire thread makes me SICK and I hope no-one in your family ever has a pet again because you're all incompetent!!!


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## rocco33

> and to the sarcastic one ... yes he may have children visiting for a few hours a day.... but hey he has to go for walkies daily and their are children past that big door out in the open! Who knows..... seeing how strong he can be "if" he fancied pulling on his lead and taking a chunk he will!
> 
> Also he has his neighbour popping in at all times of the day, unexpected! anyway putting him in a cage is not actually solving the problem, it just delaying it! Im positive their is a new home for him somewhere.


Yes, I understand - clearly too much to bother with. I hope you don't get another dog. Dogs and puppies require TRAINING which has clearly not happened - they don't come as ready made loving companions - you have to put in the work. It is pretty obvious that this dog hasn't been cared for and trained and now he's behaving like a 'DOG' he is being called aggressive and impossible to live with.

I'm relieved he is going to rescue - at least there he will have someone who is responsible who will put his needs first.

AND PLEASE DON'T GET A DOG - unless it's a stuffed one.


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## Guest

sammykins said:


> i wouldnt worry he is going to a rescue that deals specifically with his breed so im sure he will get people who are interested and will get home checked and placed with the right person!
> 
> and to the sarcastic one ... yes he may have children visiting for a few hours a day.... but hey he has to go for walkies daily and their are children past that big door out in the open! Who knows..... seeing how strong he can be "if" he fancied pulling on his lead and taking a chunk he will!
> 
> Also he has his neighbour popping in at all times of the day, unexpected! anyway putting him in a cage is not actually solving the problem, it just delaying it! Im positive their is a new home for him somewhere.


The sarcastic one replies again!
You are contridicting yourself sweetie! If that dog is a bad as you make out he is not suitable for rehoming! he will be PTS!!
Read your second paragraph and think very carefully about what you are saying!!! Do NOT exaggerate otherwise you will be SIGNING HIS death warrant!!

Most dissapointed in you seeing as you claim to be an animal lover!
Thank you for your time - thats me done with you!

Erm! does he also have a problem with OAP's that you have not told us about?


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## RAINYBOW

sammykins said:


> i wouldnt worry he is going to a rescue that deals specifically with his breed so im sure he will get people who are interested and will get home checked and placed with the right person!
> 
> and to the sarcastic one ... yes he may have children visiting for a few hours a day.... but hey he has to go for walkies daily and their are children past that big door out in the open! Who knows..... seeing how strong he can be "if" he fancied pulling on his lead and taking a chunk he will!
> 
> Also he has his neighbour popping in at all times of the day, unexpected! anyway putting him in a cage is not actually solving the problem, it just delaying it! Im positive their is a new home for him somewhere.


Yes and that "right" home will have to DEAL with his issues which will probably involve crating or confining from strangers until they have put the graft in to sort it out. He will still need to be exercised so if he is not safe to be out on the tsreets and you think its that bad then this dog should not be re homed. Do you not get that :confused1:

Either he has SERIOUS problems therefore should be PTS because he is a danger to people OR he isn't too bad and with a bit of work from someone else he will be the perfect dog in which case why not put the work in 

Total contradiction


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## sammykins

he has always had a dog, so a dog is important to him and he sees it as part of his family, but as i said before he doesnt want to take the risk, i dont think he realised how powerful the dog was either so i think having to train him would be hard for him. But that still isnt the main problem here, as you all know. training obviously could help, but whos to say that if he got better with training then one day (as he obvioulsy has it in him to bite) he could just turn totally out of the blue. Its just not worth the risk


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## Guest

sammykins said:


> he has always had a dog, so a dog is important to him and he sees it as part of his family, but as i said before he doesnt want to take the risk, i dont think he realised how powerful the dog was either so i think having to train him would be hard for him. But that still isnt the main problem here, as you all know. training obviously could help, but whos to say that if he got better with training then one day (as he obvioulsy has it in him to bite) he could just turn totally out of the blue. Its just not worth the risk


But him a bloody hot dog!


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## simplysardonic

sammykins said:


> i wouldnt worry he is going to a rescue that deals specifically with his breed so im sure he will get people who are interested and will get home checked and placed with the right person!
> 
> and to the sarcastic one ... yes he may have children visiting for a few hours a day.... but hey he has to go for walkies daily and their are children past that big door out in the open! Who knows..... seeing how strong he can be "if" he fancied pulling on his lead and taking a chunk he will!
> 
> Also he has his neighbour popping in at all times of the day, unexpected! anyway putting him in a cage is not actually solving the problem, it just delaying it! Im positive their is a new home for him somewhere.


A good behaviourist could help him overcome all these issues. If he's so strong on the lead that he could pull someone over then he is in desperate need of lead training or a headcollar. These issues will not go away even if he gets rehomed & chances are due to his issues he will be asessed & PTS as the rescue probably won't have the funds to deal with his issues


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## sammykins

DoubleTrouble said:


> The sarcastic one replies again!
> You are contridicting yourself sweetie! If that dog is a bad as you make out he is not suitable for rehoming! he will be PTS!!
> Read your second paragraph and think very carefully about what you are saying!!! Do NOT exaggerate otherwise you will be SIGNING HIS death warrant!!
> 
> Most dissapointed in you seeing as you claim to be an animal lover!
> Thank you for your time - thats me done with you!
> 
> Erm! does he also have a problem with OAP's that you have not told us about?


when a dog growls whilst jumping up at a child and has bitten twice when that person has gone near him eating a bone (although not sure how hard etc as i was not their) he is showing signs of aggressiveness. Thats not exaggerating that is telling the truth.

My exaggeration just lies with "what ifs" what is he capable of and to be honest sweetie is not something that i would like to find out!!! and who knows he could see the neighbour as a threat especially if she startled him by opening the door.... who knows????? BUT what if???? au reviour


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## RAINYBOW

sammykins said:


> he has always had a dog, so a dog is important to him and he sees it as part of his family, but as i said before he doesnt want to take the risk, i dont think he realised how powerful the dog was either so i think having to train him would be hard for him. But that still isnt the main problem here, as you all know. training obviously could help, but whos to say that if he got better with training then one day (as he obvioulsy has it in him to bite) he could just turn totally out of the blue. Its just not worth the risk


Then if he REALLY is that unpredictable he should be PTS ((now banging head on wall)) and your FIL should step up and do the right thing

If its not worth the risk with your own family and friends why is it OK with someone elses :confused1:

Do you have any idea what a rescue shelter will be like, do you think that environment is going to improve this dogs behavioural issues ??? Who are these "magical" people who are going to take this "risk" when you aren't prepared to???

Maybe my well meaning neighbour who has no kids of her own but mine in the garden next door and one day this "unpredictable, aggressive" dog escapes and takes my daughters face off, but thats OK because its not your problem

Can you not see that :confused1:


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## sammykins

They have a non destruct policy he is not that bad im sure 90% of the time he is fine, but the other 10% he is not so good, but as i keep saying " we dont want to see that 10% and how bad it could get" and as he has been so unpredictable thats where the worry is

Thanks for your advice on leads, crates etc, but my father in law is so worried after the last few weeks and when he jumped up on my son he feels its the last straw, so he has made his decision, im happy with where he is going and i feel positive that he will be fine.


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## rocco33

> he has always had a dog, so a dog is important to him and he sees it as part of his family, but as i said before he doesnt want to take the risk, i dont think he realised how powerful the dog was either so i think having to train him would be hard for him. But that still isnt the main problem here, as you all know. training obviously could help, but whos to say that if he got better with training then one day (as he obvioulsy has it in him to bite) he could just turn totally out of the blue. Its just not worth the risk


Oh FFS! Stop trying to justify yourself.

a) It was stupid and irresponsible to by an old man a large stong puppy of this breeding.

b) It was stupid and irresonsible to buy a grieving man a puppy that requires a great deal of time and effort in training if they are to turn into a well behaved dog.

c) Now it doesn't suit you are going to pass off the problem dog to someone else to clear up your mess.

And STILL you try to justify yourself  

Thank goodness this dog is now going to someone who will care for it (or pts) which is more than can be said for the family it was homed into.


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## Nonnie

sammykins said:


> he has always had a dog, so a dog is important to him and he sees it as part of his family, but as i said before he doesnt want to take the risk, i dont think he realised how powerful the dog was either so i think having to train him would be hard for him. But that still isnt the main problem here, as you all know. training obviously could help, but whos to say that if he got better with training then one day (as he obvioulsy has it in him to bite) he could just turn totally out of the blue. Its just not worth the risk


But you're quiet happy to put someone else at risk by passing the buck to a rescue?

Thousands upon thousands on perfectly healthy, well tempered dogs are being killed on a yearly basis. A dog with a history like this stands no chance of being rehomed, and will spend an eternity in a kennel, where pent up energy and frustration will drive him insane. He will most likely start to exhibit stereotypical behaviour in order to deal with his boredom.

If he isnt a ticking timebomb now, a rescue situation will give him the time and place to turn into one.

If he is a resource guarder, he will most likely become a kennel guarder. How would you feel if he attacked a member of staff?

A kennel situation is the wrong place for this dog. It will only make him worse, and imo, even contemplating putting him through it is cruel.

If you or your FIL arent prepared to deal with him and work with him to remedy his issues, then he should be PTS.

I guess its just a case of out of sight, out of mind.


----------



## RAINYBOW

He's really bad/he's not that bad make your mind up 

Glad you are happy though, must be nice in la la land and to be honest you will never know if he attacks and disfigures someone elses child so "Appy Days" long as its not one of yours eh :thumbup:


----------



## sammykins

rocco33 said:


> Oh FFS! Stop trying to justify yourself.
> 
> a) It was stupid and irresponsible to by an old man a large stong puppy of this breeding.
> 
> b) It was stupid and irresonsible to buy a grieving man a puppy that requires a great deal of time and effort in training if they are to turn into a well behaved dog.
> 
> c) Now it doesn't suit you are going to pass off the problem dog to someone else to clear up your mess.
> 
> And STILL you try to justify yourself
> 
> Thank goodness this dog is now going to someone who will care for it (or pts) which is more than can be said for the family it was homed into.


yep thankgod


----------



## Acacia86

I hope it all works out for this dog.

Another load of totally irresponsible, uncaring, selfish people and a poor, now ruined, dog stuck in the middle.

Yes, thats life these days obviously. 

I hope you can all sleep at night. I know i wouldn't. But then again i would never allow myself to do this to an innocent animal.


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## Cleo38

sammykins said:


> he has always had a dog, so a dog is important to him and he sees it as part of his family, but as i said before he doesnt want to take the risk, i dont think he realised how powerful the dog was either so i think having to train him would be hard for him. But that still isnt the main problem here, as you all know. training obviously could help, but whos to say that if he got better with training then one day (as he obvioulsy has it in him to bite) he could just turn totally out of the blue. *Its just not worth the risk*


Should that not read ...*'not worth the bother'*????? becuase that's exactly what the post reads like.

Well done you for adding to the growing number of healthy dogs that will end up on the vets table being killed because their 'animal loving' owners just couldn't really give a stuff about them .... you must be so proud of yourself!!


----------



## RAINYBOW

Having just re read the Original post i tell you what makes me really bloody angry is that you came on here A PUBLIC FORUM expecting some member to take this "problem" off your hands. Your post is almost blackmail in the last bit saying if noone takes him he will be PTS but when members said "Ok yes maybe thats the right thing to do" you got all defensive . 

You then go on repeatedly to say how dangerous and unpredictable this very large powerful dog is yet you would have palmed that off on any old Tom Dick or Harry who was stupid/goodhearted enough.

How bloody irresponsible can you get  And you are responsible for other peoples children yet you have such disregard for the safety of others.


----------



## sammykins

yep im a wicked childminder! children come first


----------



## Guest

RAINYBOW said:


> Having just re read the Original post i tell you what makes me really bloody angry is that you came on here A PUBLIC FORUM expecting some member to take this "problem" off your hands. Your post is almost blackmail in the last bit saying if noone takes him he will be PTS but when members said "Ok yes maybe thats the right thing to do" you got all defensive .
> 
> You then go on repeatedly to say how dangerous and unpredictable this very large powerful dog is yet you would have palmed that off on any old Tom Dick or Harry who was stupid/goodhearted enough.
> 
> How bloody irresponsible can you get  And you are responsible for other peoples children yet you have such disregard for the safety of others.


32 weeks old Rainybow! This poor dog have NEVER had a chance! probably breed by a byb! they sold to the highest bidder! bet the breeder would have sold the pup on ebay had they have been allowed!
And to the OP!!!! You call yourself an animal lover!! Sweetie! you talk BULLSHIT! as every post you have made regarding this poor pup proves! AND I am NOT the only one to see it!
DT


----------



## Guest

sammykins said:


> yep im a wicked childminder! children come first


Children should be trained how to behave around dogs! Dogs have as much right to life as any other breathing thing! Shame some don't see it!


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## Acacia86

sammykins said:


> yep im a wicked childminder! children come first


But its not your dog.......so the children you look after have nothing to do with it.


----------



## Cleo38

sammykins said:


> yep im a wicked childminder! children come first


It's not got to be a choice between the children or the dog - are you really that dense? Do you really need the situation spelled out for you?

You are just a typical example of irrespnsible pet owners who have no concept of an animlas needs or requirements. You should be ashamed of yourself but you obviously can't even comprehend shame .......


----------



## RAINYBOW

sammykins said:


> yep im a wicked childminder! children come first


You miss the point. You might be putting YOUR children first but you aren't putting anyone elses children first passing this dog off are you ?? His issues aren't going to magically disappear, he clearly has some serious problems yet you offered him up on an OPEN forum where anyone could have agreed to take him. THAT is NOT putting "children" first just looking after your own


----------



## ruth9

You say your FIL has always had dogs and wanted one for company and that's why you got him the dog. Is your FIL going to get another dog then? 

I feel so sorry for this dog. If he's taken to a rescue with a non destruct policy and then he is deemed to dangerous to rehome he could be resigned to a life in kennels. I would only be parted from my dogs over my dead body but if it were my dog I would rather pts than a life in a kennel.


----------



## sequeena

You're talking to a brick wall. People like her don't give a flying f about anyone or anything.

They're quick to bleat when owners of said dangerous dogs are trying to rehabilitate them though! I've met the kind oh so often


----------



## RAINYBOW

ruth9 said:


> You say your FIL has always had dogs and wanted one for company and that's why you got him the dog. Is your FIL going to get another dog then?
> 
> I feel so sorry for this dog. If he's taken to a rescue with a non destruct policy and then he is deemed to dangerous to rehome he could be resigned to a life in kennels. I would only be parted from my dogs over my dead body but if it were my dog I would rather pts than a life in a kennel.


Misguided Fools who think "no destroy" means every doggy get a fabby new home eventually


----------



## RAINYBOW

sequeena said:


> You're talking to a brick wall. People like her don't give a flying f about anyone or anything.
> 
> They're quick to bleat when owners of said dangerous dogs are trying to rehabilitate them though! I've met the kind oh so often


Wonder how Sammykins would feel if one of her kids got attacked by some random dog in the park tomorrow that had been "moved on" and not dealt with


----------



## Guest

RAINYBOW said:


> You miss the point. You might be putting YOUR children first but you aren't putting anyone elses children first passing this dog off are you ?? His issues aren't going to magically disappear, he clearly has some serious problems yet you offered him up on an OPEN forum where anyone could have agreed to take him. THAT is NOT putting "children" first just looking after your own


Would have repped ya again Rainybow!! you sure are earning the green stuff tonight!:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## RAINYBOW

DoubleTrouble said:


> Would have repped ya again Rainybow!! you sure are earning the green stuff tonight!:thumbup::thumbup:


I am off to bed hun, this stinks


----------



## sequeena

RAINYBOW said:


> Wonder how Sammykins would feel if one of her kids got attacked by some random dog in the park tomorrow that had been "moved on" and not dealt with


Got an answer for that but it's not appropriate for a public forum


----------



## momentofmadness

sammykins said:


> But with such a strong breed (oh sorry cross) with having 2 guard dogs into one it would be very difficult to train him and with this in mind being that he is behaving in this way its not worth it if he turns and harms a child in the meanwhile especially as he is only going to get bigger and stronger.


I hate threads like this.. personally..

But I have read it through.. and You have just stated it isn't worth training... 
I really dont think its a bad thing him being PTS..

I believe he has gone your FIL and struck up a great rotective bond with him... and the dog feels the house is his and if people dont comply with the dogs rules then wobetide them..#

Now if this dog goes into rescue he will probably get a max of an hour out of his small kennel to be socialised..

I do not believe this is what this dog needs.. it needs profesional help if it is to be rehabilated.. I just can't see this with it being locked in a kennel.. stressing its head out not able to stretch its legs properly each day and it will possibly get more behavioural problems...

Its also one of those dogs that people who really have a good idea about dogs more than likely wouldn't entertain... So the possibility of him getting rehomed to a suitable owner in the next 6 months are very slim...

I had to rehome a dog myself a couple of years ago.. due to a personality clash with my other dog.. It took me over 8 months to find her a home, and she is in the best home she could have.. But the last place I was going to let her go to was a kennel whether they specialised in her breed or not.. If it had got to an unbearable stage I would have made the horrible decision to have her PTS.

There are so many idiots out there willing to take a dog on for all the wrong reasons..

Please you have said.. You dont want Children to get hurt... How can you be sure this dog will not be in the papers in time to come after mauling a child to death....


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## tripod

This isn't a dominant dog as described above - he has resource guarding issues, fear and malsocialisation issues. This dog is a teenager and presumably entire.
He needs a vet exam and a behaviourist assessment before he goes anywhere.
This dog will not improve or become any more homeable in kennels or without the med and behaviour assessment.


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## Fuzzbugs!x

I'm not going to be popular for this but you know - f*ck it . Did you do anything when this dog was bought? Was there any kind of proper socialisation with children? As for the food possesiveness - your dog should be taught from day one that anyone can take any food from it. I mean no matter how much you try to sugar coat it you've quite clearly done **** all and the result is right in front of your eyes . So big pat on the back for you - yet another eejit buying yet another tricky cross without a clue in the world what they're doing and then when the dog doesnt behave perfectly, pass it on to someone else. Jesus is it just me or is the simple solution not when the kids are over put the flipping dog in another room or a crate . Thats saying you dont want to work at it or get help in. Do the world a favour though - please dont buy another dog after this, rescue centres dont need yet another addition. I mean come on!!! You've been on this forum scince you bought the dog right! Have you ever asked for advice when it all started? Im guessing no you just came here when it was decided he dog should be patched. This situation could have been avoided if you had just done your flipping research on having a dog. & don't hit out with 'oh its his dog, i cant do anything' YOU paid for it, it's in this position because of YOU - so don't try and coward out . 

ps. i havent read the whole thread as i got too peed off  so i apologize if anything has changed and the op has grown some brain cells in he mean time  x


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## sammykins

you dont know what training we have done with the dog, you only know what information i have given you! so how you can comment on that, i surely dont know. In answer to your waffle, we had the dog with us, with children for a month, mainly to toilet train him and get him used to the children and cat etc, which he was totally fine with. we meaning.. father in law, myself and hubby have taken his food away from him in the middle of meals etc, and given back, and also rewarded him with treats, which he is fine with. But if anyone else goes near his food he dont like it! so how you deal with that i dont know! We also took the time and effort into getting his wobbly legs sorted out, after alot of research and vet trips, bills etc!! and finally got it all sorted. We have also been training him to sit and stay which he does very well. So we havnt just let this dog sit and rot and not bother with it! Ive taken him for walks, so has father in law and he also has his teenage grandson to take him for walks, so he does have socialisation thanks! He is good when out with other people and other dogs and will try and jump up playfully, we do keep him on a tight lead! Also the family do or rather did visit him regulary (we still do) until hes behaviour started to get a bit aggressive. He dont sit their growling all day, it has just been a few times when out of the blue he has done something worrying! So as my father in law is making him self sick with worry as most of the family wont visit him, He feels he cant have an unpredictable dog, seeing that he is only a pup he will be getting bigger and he doesnt want it to get out of control, he is a very boisterous pup and jumps up continously to play, which is obviously normal and we do tell him to get down, he is like a huge bouncy ball and i think with the issues that he has and the size he will get my father in law dosnt want to take any chances.

Anyway why you lot cant see this is beyond me! Anyway i have looked into homing him even more (see i actually care!!) and have found a much more suitable place for him in a foster place which is great news and they specialise in this type of dog,, they know about everything - so i havnt witheld any info, so, see there are people out their willing to help and not think putting to sleep is the best option!

And no i havnt been on this forum since it started to ask for advice as it has only started to happen in the past few weeks and i do actually have a life myself with childminding 8 children, caring for unwell children and a child who has had a operation on top of doing an nvq course and of course taking holidays when i can! not to mention looking after my own animals - which i do very well. Your right i dont have time to be taking the dog to classes etc as frankly i serioulsy have enough to do with my own life thanks. And i will say it again its my father in laws decision not mine, even though i do agree to some extent, i did try and bring him round tonight saying different things to try (As i always help as much as i can) but he is making himself sick with worry! and his health is paramount! I agree also that this probably wasnt the type of dog for him but i didnt actually buy the dog, my other half did, in fact i was looking at rescues for an older dog who was known to be good with children!! but my hubby decided he knew best and got the dog after speaking to his dad about it, yes i was annoyed, but thought ok well we have him now lets make the most of it and hope he is good with the kids etc which at first he was.

Anyway wont bore you anymore, but im not a heartless cow thanks. I love animals to bits, but i cant help anymore than i already have im afraid.


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## Cleo38

Yeah, yeah, you keep telling yourself that you are 'doing the right thing' & have 'done your best' & whatever other catchphrase is used by others who get rid of their dogs!

You say it's only happened in the past few weeks so it's not as if you've put months & months of training in & are still having problems then is it? ..... first signs of a problem, which is not uncommon for dogs of this age, & he's out.

But never mind .... you can always get another one now .......


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## RAINYBOW

Simple fact is that you have not done everything you can, this is a very young dog still but you/your father in law has decided.

Resource/food Guarding is solvable which you would know if you had bothered to look into it/contact a behaviourist be prepared to put the work in but you aren't so lets not try and pretend you are somehow 

You don't have to justify yourself to us. The thread speaks for itself.

Also you contradict yourself because in your Original post you said if you couldn't find someone to take him on you would have to have him PTS (emotional blackmail IMO to put that on a Petforum hoping someone would take him on).

I REALLY hope that the person taking him on is as experienced as you say and gets this boy the help he needs, like i said before his problems don't just DISAPPEAR when he goes somewhere else so SOMEONE has to deal with it. Just praying you haven't passed him off to some naive but well meaning person (there are plenty of those in the Rescue Industry) and they pay the price or a member of the puplic.


----------



## lillynharry

BUT your fil and other half should be the ones WILLING TO HELP THIS DOG!!!

It is THEIR responsibility! They created the issues this dog has!! Be honest!!

Either this dog is vicious and unpredictable and not suitable to be around 

people, ie DANGEROUS!!! In which case, it should NOT be rehomed!! We love our children to you know!!! We don't want them bitten either!!

OR, Its "problems" are not really a huge issue in that they can't be 

solved!! in which case, why are your fil/other half not trying to solve them??:confused1:

I will tell you why! They don't want to!! Simple as!! Irresponsible people.


----------



## rocco33

> father in law, myself and hubby have taken his food away from him in the middle of meals etc. ......But if anyone else goes near his food he dont like it! so how you deal with that i dont know!


Well no wonder he's resource guarding!  If you don't know how to train a dog or it's your first dog then you should get help with training. You've trained him to resource guard and now admit you don't know what to do but won't get a behaviourist in! Quite frankly, I'm beginning to think all this dog may need is some basic training which has been neglected. Did you ever teach him bite inhibition and to stop mouthing? No one can say without seeing, but the more you have said, I suspect that this poor dog never had any proper basic training and now you are claiming it is dangerous and were prepared to pts. Chances are all you need is a decent trainer but a behaviourist would be able to assess this as it cannot be done over the internet. But you aren't prepared to do that. Talk about uncaring and irresponsible. You create a problem dog and then refuse to do anything about it! 



> Anyway why you lot cant see this is beyond me!


No what you fail to see is that you have created this problem dog through your ignorance, lack of knowledge, stupidity in getting a breed that shouldn't be in novice hands, from (by the sounds of it) a poor byb breeder, and now, having created the problem you want rid of it and are going to hand it over having made a mess of it. How you fail to see this and can turn your back on your own mistakes is what we cannot understand - and you call yourself an animal lover! You create a problem and then cast it off when you don't want to deal with it anymore.

This is sickening!


----------



## Cleo38

sammykins said:


> If you think you would have the time to train Alfred then feel free to contact me, we are in surrey. Otherwise we really would have to consider having him put to sleep.


This is the last part of the original post ..... if this isn't emotional blackmail then I don't know what is!!!!

Also you clearly state that the dog requires training ..... if this is true then why can't you all spare the time & put in the effort..... oh, sorry, you're all too busy ......


----------



## rocco33

> Simple fact is that you have not done everything you can,


Worse than that - it appears now from what has been said that they've actually TRAINED him to be like this through their training techniques and ignorance 

Now they're blaming the poor dog for being aggressive and want rid or pts.


----------



## Guest

rocco33 said:


> No what you fail to see is that you have created this problem dog through your ignorance, lack of knowledge, stupidity in getting a breed that shouldn't be in novice hands, from (by the sounds of it) a poor byb breeder, and now, having created the problem you want rid of it and are going to hand it over having made a mess of it. How you fail to see this and can turn your back on your own mistakes is what we cannot understand - and you call yourself an animal lover! You create a problem and then cast it off when you don't want to deal with it anymore.
> 
> This is sickening!


TBH! it is for the best that they rehome the dog! The importance being that the dog should be passed on to one of the rescues with specialist knowledge!

It is easy for us to work out what went wrong !! But sadly not all share our views!

the first mistake was pointed out by Rainybow I believe!! NEVER buy a dog for another person as a GIFT! it just had to be downhill all the way once the novelty wore off!


----------



## rocco33

> TBH! it is for the best that they rehome the dog! The importance being that the dog should be passed on to one of the rescues with specialist knowledge!


I agree and said that in a post much earlier in this thread.

What I don't get is that they can't see this and still blaming the poor dog. God help any future dog that they get (which I hope they won't). We can all make mistakes, but not learning from them will only mean more problems for some other poor dog.


----------



## Guest

rocco33 said:


> I agree and said that in a post much earlier in this thread.
> 
> What I don't get is that they can't see this and still blaming the poor dog. God help any future dog that they get (which I hope they won't). We can all make mistakes, but not learning from them will only mean more problems for some other poor dog.


You can tell some folk till you are blue in the face! In their own minds they have actually convinced themselves that they are not repsonsible for the problems! But sadly even with the aid of a hammer & Chisel I don't think you will ever get the messsage through!


----------



## RAINYBOW

I agree the dog needs a specialist home and at the age he is at he stands a good chance of being re programmed but what the OP doesn't understand is that we are annoyed at the lack of effort in rectifying the behavioural issue, no far simpler all round to F Up and then pass the buck.

Now i could totally understand this if the dog were living in a household with children present, when Oscar was resource guarding it was a real race against time to get him sorted and took ALOT of careful management because of having the children here 24/7 BUT this dog is living in the ideal environment to be re trained with a decent trainer/ behaviourist and some basic rules. Tragic


----------



## Gemmaa

"He has *only bitten twice*. there was *only 1 bite* to a *child*"

Oh well, if that's all that happened! 

Can't help but think it's a load of bull that he's in some wonderful rescue/foster home that specialises in that breed.

Anyone remember the American Bulldog on Dog Borstal? The one that the owners wrecked through incompetence?
I'm pretty sure they said that a rescue centre for American Bulldogs wouldn't/couldn't take him on because it was just passing the problem on and as such he was PTS, and he wasn't anywhere near as bad as the dog in this post.


----------



## sequeena

Well I'm sure we can all agree that the OP is a complete moron :thumbup: I hope pupster gets the home he deserves, away from such ignorant delinquents.


----------



## tiddlypup

neapolitan mastiffs can be sods,especially with food toys etc,more so the males,ive taken them in for over 20 yrs,my old boy bit me 5 times in the first few months,where abouts are you,sorry not read it all but wanted to step in before he was PTS


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## simplysardonic

tiddlypup said:


> neapolitan mastiffs can be sods,especially with food toys etc,more so the males,ive taken them in for over 20 yrs,my old boy bit me 5 times in the first few months,where abouts are you,sorry not read it all but wanted to step in before he was PTS


Shes in Surrey I believe, hope you can help this poor dog


----------



## sammykins

Gemmaa said:


> "He has *only bitten twice*. there was *only 1 bite* to a *child*"
> 
> Oh well, if that's all that happened!
> 
> Can't help but think it's a load of bull that he's in some wonderful rescue/foster home that specialises in that breed.
> 
> Anyone remember the American Bulldog on Dog Borstal? The one that the owners wrecked through incompetence?
> I'm pretty sure they said that a rescue centre for American Bulldogs wouldn't/couldn't take him on because it was just passing the problem on and as such he was PTS, and he wasn't anywhere near as bad as the dog in this post.


get a grip! My aim is to get him with a foster home that specialises in that breed, (not to put him to sleep) and i have had a couple of offers with that type of home, so there we are!! get off your high horses, you all sit there giving your negative views, most of you wanting the dog dead! I wouldnt mind but the majority of you have never even come into contact with this type of dog, so how the hell can you sit there giving it large! You are not qualified mastiff specialists! They may not be as easy to train as the dog that is sitting next to you! You need to actually put yourselves in my father in laws shoes! then you would have a totally different view!

Just goes to show there are kind people in the world willing to help, thank f*uck they are not all like you! This world would be a very gloomy place! miserable bunch of sods


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## sequeena

> Otherwise we really would have to consider having him put to sleep.


Well bugger me I wonder who wrote that!


----------



## sequeena

sammykins said:


> get a grip! My aim is to get him with a foster home that specialises in that breed, (not to put him to sleep) and i have had a couple of offers with that type of home, so there we are!! get off your high horses, you all sit there giving your negative views, most of you wanting the dog dead! I wouldnt mind but the majority of you have never even come into contact with this type of dog, so how the hell can you sit there giving it large! You are not qualified mastiff specialists! They may not be as easy to train as the dog that is sitting next to you! You need to actually put yourselves in my father in laws shoes! then you would have a totally different view!
> 
> Just goes to show there are kind people in the world willing to help, thank f*uck they are not all like you! This world would be a very gloomy place! miserable bunch of sods


I can tell you now that that little pup has nowhere near the amount of issues Luna had/has so why don't you just crawl back under whatever rock you came from and make sure that pup gets the home it deserves!!

You can say bugger all about how hard the rest of us have had it when you cannot be bothered to lift a damn finger yourself!


----------



## momentofmadness

No we may not all be experts in the breed.. But I have a friend who has been breeding DDB for 30 years... And when I mentioned to her what you had written she was quite shocked and said it can happen and its one of those breeds that you can't let get the better of you! If they do.. sometimes its irreversable and she said her self rather than it go into a rescue and possibly be passed around or bite someone else that sometimes the kindest thing to do is have them PTS... And she truly cares about the breed and doesn't like the idea of another giving her breed bad press!

And Also having being bit quite badly by a large breed and loosing the use of my hand for some time I kinda know how it feels to be bitten...


----------



## RAINYBOW

sammykins said:


> get a grip! My aim is to get him with a foster home that specialises in that breed, (not to put him to sleep) and i have had a couple of offers with that type of home, so there we are!! get off your high horses, you all sit there giving your negative views, most of you wanting the dog dead! I wouldnt mind but the majority of you have never even come into contact with this type of dog, so how the hell can you sit there giving it large! You are not qualified mastiff specialists! They may not be as easy to train as the dog that is sitting next to you! You need to actually put yourselves in my father in laws shoes! then you would have a totally different view!
> 
> Just goes to show there are kind people in the world willing to help, thank f*uck they are not all like you! This world would be a very gloomy place! miserable bunch of sods


Erm sorry did i not say several times that my dog resource guarded and i solved the problem with a F load of effort and bit of professional help :confused1: But WTF would i know 

But thats fine you judge away, couldn't give a flying friggate what you think of me 

What do you mean by "help" though. What you actually did was come on here asking for someone to take this "problem" off your hands, had you come asking for "help" you would have got it


----------



## sequeena

RAINYBOW said:


> Erm sorry did i not say several times that my dog resource guarded and i solved the problem with a F load of effort and bit of professional help :confused1: But WTF would i know
> 
> But thats fine you judge away, couldn't give a flying friggate what you think of me
> 
> What do you mean by "help" though. What you actually did was come on here asking for someone to take this "problem" off your hands, had you come asking for "help" you would have got it


Rainy do you like my list?? 

- Dog aggression
- Resource guarding (food/toys/ANYTHING of value)
- Fear aggression (strange people/inanimate objects)
- Separation Anxiety

Oh I could go on and on.

She's also snapped at me once, though I think I took her by surprise in that case.


----------



## simplysardonic

sammykins said:


> get a grip! My aim is to get him with a foster home that specialises in that breed, (not to put him to sleep) and i have had a couple of offers with that type of home, so there we are!! get off your high horses, you all sit there giving your negative views, most of you wanting the dog dead! I wouldnt mind but the majority of you have never even come into contact with this type of dog, so how the hell can you sit there giving it large! You are not qualified mastiff specialists! They may not be as easy to train as the dog that is sitting next to you! You need to actually put yourselves in my father in laws shoes! then you would have a totally different view!
> 
> Just goes to show there are kind people in the world willing to help, thank f*uck they are not all like you! This world would be a very gloomy place! miserable bunch of sods


I don't think anyone wants the dog dead, as for 'mastiff experts' lots of people have tried to help, OK some have been blunter than others but from your posts it seems like this poor dog has been let down badly & he's just a baby still


----------



## Gemmaa

sammykins said:


> get a grip! My aim is to get him with a foster home that specialises in that breed, (not to put him to sleep) and i have had a couple of offers with that type of home, so there we are!! get off your high horses, you all sit there giving your negative views, most of you wanting the dog dead! I wouldnt mind but the majority of you have never even come into contact with this type of dog, so how the hell can you sit there giving it large! You are not qualified mastiff specialists! They may not be as easy to train as the dog that is sitting next to you! You need to actually put yourselves in my father in laws shoes! then you would have a totally different view!
> 
> Just goes to show there are kind people in the world willing to help, thank f*uck they are not all like you! This world would be a very gloomy place! miserable bunch of sods


When I was very young, about 1 or maybe a bit younger, my parents adopted a rescue German Shepherd who had spent the first 11 months of her life shut in a shed with no social contact, exercise, NOTHING. 
Obviously a terrible start for any dog, but especially horrific for a breed like a GSD.

Anyway, my dad totally turned her around, she could track, she won obedience competitions, my dad literally only had to *wink* at her and she'd spin round and sit at his side, hanging off his every command.
She was amazing, a totally different dog.
HOWEVER, as she got older the damage she'd suffered mentally caught up with her.
She became possessive over my dad and started growling at us.
Then one day my brother brought someone home from school and she went mental, charged at the boy and bit his leg, just enough to bruise him.
As a result she had to be PTS immediately, which just about broke my dads heart.

So my point is because you bought a puppy, crossed between 2 guarding breeds that are potentially aggressive in the WRONG hands, and then failed to give him the training and stimulation that he so desperately needed, no matter how much he improves now, *he will never be able to be trusted* so in that regard his life is basically over anyway.

There isn't any excuse for getting a dog more intelligent then yourself, you should have been more thorough in your research.
If I put myself in any of your shoes I'd be feeling pretty ashamed that I hadn't had the sense to get a breed more suited to my lifestyle and handling capabilities, and that my own ignorance and want of a 'status' dog had screwed up a potentially amazing animal.


----------



## sammykins

There isn't any excuse for getting a dog more intelligent then yourself, you should have been more thorough in your research.
If I put myself in any of your shoes I'd be feeling pretty ashamed that I hadn't had the sense to get a breed more suited to my lifestyle and handling capabilities, and that my own ignorance and want of a 'status' dog had screwed up a potentially amazing animal.[/QUOTE]

As i said before i didnt choose this dog my other half did, i did say i thought it wasnt suited when he bought it home, due to the size he would get, but the size has never been a problem and he likes large dogs! (he didnt actually even tell me he was getting that breed, that was a discussion he had with his dad!) I was actually looking for an older rescue dog that was known to be good with children! yes i do my research into a pet before i get one, its a shame my other half and his dad didnt, So i dont think any of you can keep on going on about how i should have researched into this dog blah blah blah.

After speaking to some EXPERTS, they have said that Nepolitans can be unpredictable and need alot of hard training, and most are not that good with kids! plus he is just trying it on at the moment, it doesnt mean he is an aggresive dog! he is just a very boisterous puppy who doesnt quite know his limits, i do agree that he needs training to put him in his place. But as ive said over and over again my father in law doesnt want to know now and ive explained the reasons why!


----------



## rocco33

> miserable bunch of sods


I'd rather be a miserable sod than an irresponsible idiot.


----------



## rocco33

From your first post.


> we will know not to buy a guard dog especially a cross breed, that is supposed to be good with children





> After speaking to some EXPERTS, they have said that Nepolitans can be unpredictable and need alot of hard training, and most are not that good with kids!


What a shame you didn't do your research BEFORE you bought him.



> father in law, myself and hubby have taken his food away from him in the middle of meals etc,


You don't seem to realise that you've actually TAUGHT him to guard his food by using these methods.

And you never replied as to whether you taught him bite inhibition - from what you have said, I seriously doubt it and now you claim you have a dangerous dog. Sorry, but you MADE a dangerous dog - puppies aren't born dangerous. All the excuses about it being in their nature and they are not good with children doesn't change that.


----------



## Amy&Ted

Wow what a thread... I can't honestly believe you didn't think a DDB x Neopolitan Mastiff wouldn't be a difficult dog to raise.

I don't want to say too much as everyone else has pretty much said how i feel. A dog is not a fashion accessory and it is definitely not a way to combat the grief of losing a loved one. A puppy needs time, care, attention and training. Especially a big one which is a x of two very strong guarding dogs. Blimey i'm not sure i'd want one myself. 

You should have researched BEFORE buying. It is careless and stupid to buy now and worry later. 

As for "He's ONLY bitten twice".... what do you mean ONLY? **** a brick love. It should have been sorted after the first time. Heck the dog should have been properly trained so it didn't happen once. 

I too think you are passing the buck. More over your FIL is passing the buck. Alas for some people when the going gets tough the weak run off. He shouldn't even consider getting a pet while he can't commit the time and effort needed. He is probably still grieving for his wife and having a strong willed dog that requires a lot of time and attention is the LAST thing he needed.


----------



## Gemmaa

sammykins said:


> As i said before i didnt choose this dog my other half did, i did say i thought it wasnt suited when he bought it home, due to the size he would get, but the size has never been a problem and he likes large dogs! (he didnt actually even tell me he was getting that breed, that was a discussion he had with his dad!) I was actually looking for an older rescue dog that was known to be good with children! yes i do my research into a pet before i get one, its a shame my other half and his dad didnt, So i dont think any of you can keep on going on about how i should have researched into this dog blah blah blah.
> 
> *After speaking to some EXPERTS, they have said that Nepolitans can be unpredictable and need alot of hard training, and most are not that good with kids! plus he is just trying it on at the moment, it doesnt mean he is an aggresive dog! he is just a very boisterous puppy who doesnt quite know his limits*, i do agree that he needs training to put him in his place. But as ive said over and over again my father in law doesnt want to know now and ive explained the reasons why.


Which is nothing you couldn't have found out if you had done PROPER research in the first place! Which you obviously DID NOT DO because you would have been aware of the risks and the work involved!
As for your father in law not wanting to know, I hope he has no intention of getting another dog any time soon.


----------



## Tapir

thank GOD he is in a place where he might actually find a decent and resposible home. just feel sorry for the rescue who are forking out the costs to rehab him due to the STUPID mistakes of irresponsible, selfish and idiotic people...the breeders and the buyers who didn't research, didn't act responsibly to train the poor thing and let him down.


----------



## sammykins

rocco33 said:


> I'd rather be a miserable sod than an irresponsible idiot.


well im neither thank god!


----------



## sequeena

sammykins said:


> well im neither thank god!


Pull the other one love it's got bells on!


----------



## sammykins

TedEBear said:


> Wow what a thread... I can't honestly believe you didn't think a DDB x Neopolitan Mastiff wouldn't be a difficult dog to raise.
> 
> I did think it would be difficult to raise!! Thats why i didnt buy it - donunt, read the thread first!


----------



## lauren001

sammykins said:


> As i said before i didnt choose this dog my other half did, i did say i thought it wasnt suited when he bought it home, due to the size he would get, but the size has never been a problem and he likes large dogs! (he didnt actually even tell me he was getting that breed, that was a discussion he had with his dad!) I was actually looking for an older rescue dog that was known to be good with children! yes i do my research into a pet before i get one, its a shame my other half and his dad didnt, So i dont think any of you can keep on going on about how i should have researched into this dog blah blah blah.
> 
> After speaking to some EXPERTS, they have said that Nepolitans can be unpredictable and need alot of hard training, and most are not that good with kids! plus he is just trying it on at the moment, it doesnt mean he is an aggresive dog! he is just a very boisterous puppy who doesnt quite know his limits, i do agree that he needs training to put him in his place. But as ive said over and over again my father in law doesnt want to know now and ive explained the reasons why!


I realise that the problem is not totally of your making and you are just trying to pick up the pieces. The pup is a dog for knowledgeable people not a dog for someone who wants an easy companion. His breeder should have made sure of that, before selling the dog to you.

I also realise that older people once they make up their mind are not easily turned. Your FIL is not behaviourist material by the sounds of things. So we can all shout all day and night about how irresponsible he is being but that will not change things. Unfortunately he is not alone.

I hope there is good news at the end of all this for you and the pup. It is not his fault and I just hope and pray he may be found a great understanding home.


----------



## rocco33

> well im neither thank god!


I think you are alone in thinking that - you fit very well into the latter category...... very well  and I won't be alone in thinking that - to be honest, I don't even know why you come back to this thread.



> Just goes to show there are kind people in the world willing to help


And just for the record - anyone talking to you and taking on this dog who has any knowledge will be thinking it even if they are as nice as pie to you. I've worked in rescue and had to do it myself - why? because the most important thing is to get the dog away from it's stupid owners and if it means biting your tongue and being nice and sympathetic that's what you do even while thinking something completely different.


----------



## sammykins

lauren001 said:


> I realise that the problem is not totally of your making and you are just trying to pick up the pieces. The pup is a dog for knowledgeable people not a dog for someone who wants an easy companion. His breeder should have made sure of that, before selling the dog to you.
> 
> I also realise that older people once they make up their mind are not easily turned. Your FIL is not behaviourist material by the sounds of things. So we can all shout all day and night about how irresponsible he is being but that will not change things. Unfortunately he is not alone.
> 
> I hope there is good news at the end of all this for you and the pup. It is not his fault and I just hope and pray he may be found a great understanding home.


Thanks i think your the first person on this forum that has actually read the messages or at least taken them in! thanks for your positive words,


----------



## Guest

And then she woke up!


----------



## sammykins

rocco33 said:


> I think you are alone in thinking that - you fit very well into the latter category...... very well  and I won't be alone in thinking that - to be honest, I don't even know why you come back to this thread.
> 
> Because your a funny bunch of twats, i dont meet many unknowledgable, (jump on your back) type people in my life so you certainly brighten my day with all your stupid negativity, and its quite surprising how i didnt realise how many ass*oles there are on forums like these when your trying to get help to get a dog rehomed, then you all try and do is be spiteful to the op, I just find you all quite amusing and very sad actually! You obviously havnt read my threads or you wouldnt be so negative towards me. I didnt choose the dog or even buy it!! so how the f*uck that has to do with me- god knows. I'm trying to do the best thing for him and get him rehomed! But hey ho, throw some more abuse my way and give me a giggle!


----------



## Snuggles

I feel so sorry for this boy.  I really hope because age is on his side the damage you have done to him can be repaired.

I'm one of those people that will 'pick up the pieces' when i'll thought out descisions and bad training lead to young dogs been so screwed up. 

My personal thoughts on him are that he deserves a chance in competent hands to try and get him on the right track. That said and I really want you to be honest with yourself. How would you feel if a few months down the line you hear that the dog has mauled the foster carer or the foster home can't help him with his problems and the only option is to put him to sleep? Could you live with your conscience then? 

It can and does happen and from my POV there is nothing more heart breaking than taking a scared dog on its final journey when I'm not much more than a stranger to it. I'm sure if the dog had a choice, it would rather be surrounded by its family that it knows and loves. Just something to consider.

Have you actually secured a rescue place for him? Rescue spaces at the moment are like hens teeth. I find it difficult to believe a rescue just happens to have foster home available, ready to take on a dog with a bite history. Some rescues will obviously take on biters but given the blame culture that is sweeping the country it is a big gamble for them to safely re-home such a dog.


----------



## Amy&Ted

sammykins said:


> TedEBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow what a thread... I can't honestly believe you didn't think a DDB x Neopolitan Mastiff wouldn't be a difficult dog to raise.
> 
> I did think it would be difficult to raise!! Thats why i didnt buy it - donunt, read the thread first!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh name calling...  how very mature. Just for the record it's spelt DONUT. If you're going to insult me at least have the decency to get it right
Click to expand...


----------



## sequeena

We are now feeding a troll. It's best to let it starve in its own misery


----------



## Amy&Ted

sequeena said:


> We are now feeding a troll. It's best to let it starve in its own misery


The only thing to do with trolls... is feed them a nice big bowl of Pedigree Slum!!!! :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Guest

TedEBear said:


> sammykins said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh name calling...  how very mature. Just for the record it's spelt DONUT. If you're going to insult me at least have the decency to get it right
> 
> 
> 
> sorry" but I do hate to see members pulled up for bad spelling There are some that do worry about it and it puts then off posting! Sorry to bring this up, but just something I feel strongly about
> DT
Click to expand...


----------



## Amy&Ted

DoubleTrouble said:


> TedEBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> sorry" but I do hate to see members pulled up for bad spelling There are some that do worry about it and it puts then off posting! Sorry to bring this up, but just something I feel strongly about
> DT
> 
> 
> 
> I feel pretty strongly about being insulted when i wasn't at all personal. Next time i'll just let her abuse me. :thumbup:
Click to expand...


----------



## Amy&Ted

sammykins said:


> .* I'm trying to do the best thing for him and get him rehomed!*


The best thing for the dog would be to see a behaviourist. I for one wouldn't want to take a dog in that had knowingly bit 2 people and hadn't seen a behaviourist.


----------



## Guest

TedEBear said:


> DoubleTrouble said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel pretty strongly about being insulted when i wasn't at all personal. Next time i'll just let her abuse me. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> But thats a personal thing between two people!  Like me I am sure you can take care of yourself when the verbals start flying!
> But as I said in the past there have been members who have said they are put off posting by seeing others critizise spelling!
> Not that I suspect anyone will even notice it in this instance! :thumbup:
Click to expand...


----------



## rocco33

> Because your a funny bunch of twats, i dont meet many unknowledgable, (jump on your back) type people in my life so you certainly brighten my day with all your stupid negativity


What a sad life you lead if this brightens your day - shame you can't put some of your put some of your time, that you clearly waste if you find this amusing, into the problem dog that you helped to create.



> I just find you all quite amusing and very sad actually!


No what's sad is people like you (AND your family) that create problem dogs because of your own selfish and thoughtless attitude and expect someone else to pick up the pieces. And then put on a 'dying swan' act about how hard done by you are and how much you care!



> You obviously havnt read my threads or you wouldnt be so negative towards me


.

I've read ALL your posts and other threads too and seen right through them.

Including the one where you referred to him as:
*My* new 8 week puppy - funny that he's your FIL's now!

And your 'care' shone through on these posts too!



> But i should be within my rights for giving him back for a refund wouldnt i?
> 
> But i didnt really want to get a "dog with problems" and i would really consider having him pts if he would have a lifetime of pain and discomfort *and of course vet bills *





> But hey ho, throw some more abuse my way and give me a giggle!


 You're not worth it. Your posts speak volumes....


----------



## Amy&Ted

DoubleTrouble said:


> TedEBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> But thats a personal thing between two people!  Like me I am sure you can take care of yourself when the verbals start flying!
> But as I said in the past there have been members who have said they are put off posting by seeing others critizise spelling!
> Not that I suspect anyone will even notice it in this instance! :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Not something i make a habit of. Couldn't resist a little dig.. especially after seeing the choice language in the last post she made
Click to expand...


----------



## celicababe1986

tiddlypup said:


> neapolitan mastiffs can be sods,especially with food toys etc,more so the males,ive taken them in for over 20 yrs,my old boy bit me 5 times in the first few months,where abouts are you,sorry not read it all but wanted to step in before he was PTS


Out of interest, Did anything come of this?


----------



## sequeena

Oh nice deduction rocco!


----------



## Cleo38

sammykins said:


> rocco33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are alone in thinking that - you fit very well into the latter category...... very well  and I won't be alone in thinking that - to be honest, I don't even know why you come back to this thread.
> 
> Because your a funny bunch of twats, i dont meet many unknowledgable, (jump on your back) type people in my life so you certainly brighten my day with all your stupid negativity, and its quite surprising how i didnt realise how many ass*oles there are on forums like these when your trying to get help to get a dog rehomed, then you all try and do is be spiteful to the op, I just find you all quite amusing and very sad actually! You obviously havnt read my threads or you wouldnt be so negative towards me. I didnt choose the dog or even buy it!! so how the f*uck that has to do with me- god knows. I'm trying to do the best thing for him and get him rehomed! But hey ho, throw some more abuse my way and give me a giggle!
> 
> 
> 
> I thought a few posts ago you were trying to convince people that you were a good pet owner ..... now it seems you're finding it quite amusing .... what a sad, unfulfilling life you must lead if this brightens your day..... you need to get out a bit more!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## RAINYBOW

You are the weakest link...... Goodbye 

Reckon its lock up time on this one folks


----------



## Guest

To the original poster!
Sammykins! when you come onto forums, any forum, any posts you have made during your time here are there for you all to see!

If you check back to February of this year! when you puppy was seven weeks old You clearly say that the dog is yours! T'is there for all to check! So we can only assume you are a liar! is that correct? Because from where I am sat and taking into account that you have lied once what reason is there for us to believe you when you say the dog has bitten?
I think my first assumption of you was the right one! and that is that you just got sick of the dog! dress it up how you like - but it's all there is black and white!
Now you will probably understand why this thread has gone the way it has!
People like you do not deserve the love of a dog!
The sarcastic one!! DT


----------



## Guest

RAINYBOW said:


> You are the weakest link...... Goodbye
> 
> Reckon its lock up time on this one folks


Just considering re-commisioning my old muppet launcher Rainybow!:thumbup:
It's been out of action for some time now!


----------



## RAINYBOW

DoubleTrouble said:


> Just considering re-commisioning my old muppet launcher Rainybow!:thumbup:
> It's been out of action for some time now!


Oh go on, you know you want to  and seemingly we are all just having a laugh now.


----------



## rocco33

I knew I remembered reading this comment - another little gem from the animal lover 'Sammykins' about her 8 week old puppy.



> I did tell the breeder this morning and asked if he would take it back as i really dont need all this worry with a new dog


----------



## lauren001

Sammykins said:


> Anyway after all this madness, and after the breeder saying he would take him back, our father in law has fallen in love with him and wants to take him on! So he is here to stay!


http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-heal...dog-problem-legs-day-early-8.html#post1384471

The pup had a lot of problems with its front legs. 
I do not think that is unreasonable behaviour, if you read the OPs posts regarding this pup, the the last thing she wanted was to give up on the pup at that age as euthanasia was mentioned, and she is expressing a similar desire now.

Although we all know about guarding breeds, fighting breeds, prey driven etc. breeds the GP tends to look at a pup fall in love and bring it home, without a second thought and although that is not to be desired it is the reality and once they cannot cope they will often send them to their deaths. 
This OP has tried to save this dog and that can only be a good thing in my book.
I feel this OP has had a hard time on here.


----------



## rocco33

> This OP has tried to save this dog and that can only be a good thing in my book.
> I feel this OP has had a hard time on here.


Really?
So which one of these is the truth?



> Originally Posted by Sammykins
> Anyway after all this madness, and after the breeder saying he would take him back, our father in law has fallen in love with him and wants to take him on! So he is here to stay!





> We bought our father in law a dog as he wanted one (his wife died a few months before and he was feeling lonely), it was a present and he loved the dog to bits!!





> Secondly, he wasnt an unexpected "PRESENT" my father in law wanted a dog so we got it for when it was his birthday! it was a present as such as "We" paid for it!


Sorry, Lauren, not getting at you  but I've heard it all before. It's one thing to give someone the benefit of doubt but I've done enough with rescue to know when someone's covering up.


----------



## celicababe1986

On the other thread, about pups legs, she mentions he was weaned at 3 1/2 weeks and *Leashed for life* has a post which explains behaviour this dog could show....do you think this could be the reason.?? Just out of curiosity...


----------



## RAINYBOW

lauren001 said:


> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-heal...dog-problem-legs-day-early-8.html#post1384471
> 
> The pup had a lot of problems with its front legs.
> I do not think that is unreasonable behaviour, if you read the OPs posts regarding this pup, the the last thing she wanted was to give up on the pup at that age as euthanasia was mentioned, and she is expressing a similar desire now.
> 
> Although we all know about guarding breeds, fighting breeds, prey driven etc. breeds the GP tends to look at a pup fall in love and bring it home, without a second thought and although that is not to be desired it is the reality and once they cannot cope they will often send them to their deaths.
> This OP has tried to save this dog and that can only be a good thing in my book.
> I feel this OP has had a hard time on here.


Do you really believe that the issue with the pups legs would have been resolved by now and then all these behavioural issues suddenly appeared :confused1:

I didn't notice the OP mention when she was asking someone on here to take him on because of his behavioural problems that he has what appears to be some serious and i would imagine very costly issues with his joints :confused1:

I also think that people were right to take the stance they did given that the OP had sought ZERO professional help and was not prepared to consider having the dog even assessed before palming him off.

Oh and from what i can see the OP had lied just a bit during this thread too (if you read the others) :confused1: This was HER dog not her FIL, he may have taken the dog on but it was originally hers.

Maybe if she had been honest and mentioned the serious health problems people could have advised because maybe just maybe the dog is experiencing some general discomfort which will not make for a sound temperament 

Have you seen the pictures of this dog as a pup ??


----------



## rocco33

> On the other thread, about pups legs, she mentions he was weaned at 3 1/2 weeks and *Leashed for life* has a post which explains behaviour this dog could show....do you think this could be the reason.?? Just out of curiosity...


I just had a look and no I don't think so. I agree with a lot of what Leashedforlife says, but not that. Weaning is usually started around 3 -4 weeks. I've not known anyone wait till 5 weeks - perhaps things are different in the US.


----------



## Amy&Ted

And she called me a donut for not reading her thread properly  :lol:

Good detective work Rocco!


----------



## deb53

Have only just caught up on this sad, sick thread 

I remember the thread about the poor pups legs and it seems that in his 

short life he has had so much to put up with....

BYBreeding

Weaned to early

Dreadful deformities in his legs preventing normal puppy interaction and socialisation at an early age.

Having a group of Numpties training him in a way to teach him to be food aggressive even at this young age

Seemingly being passed from pillar to post within a family who do not have the intellect to own a millipede let alone a dog of such breeding.

.......And now being passed on for rescue to pick up the pieces

whilst no doubt this moronic family is hunting through the likes of Preloved 

for another puppy for a lonely FIL....I would suggest he takes up bird spotting 

or organ playing for the local elderly or something where he can vent his 

lonliness instead of ruining another dogs life.

Absolutly sickening


----------



## sammykins

yes when i spoke about the dog in my other post we had it here for a month to train it, i said it was my dog-what is that a crime! i dont need to tell you lot that it was going to be for my fil, what the hell has that got to do with you as to whos dog it is etc, but i spoke of him as if he was mine as we had him here. I was on here just getting advice about his legs, not to have a debate over whos dog he was - at least i know you have been reading my threads and actually sinking them in - im rather surprised! but yes he was always been for my fil. I havnt lied-got no need to, what would i gain from that! I just didnt need to give you all the ins and out when im asking for problems about his legs.

And yes the foster parent knows he had problems with his legs, but if any of you owned a dog like this you would know that they have growth problems, and any large dog will most probably have something wrong with thier legs as they get older.

Great to see i have had some very positive messages in my private mail box!! Thanks guys.


----------



## sammykins

Amy&Ted said:


> And she called me a donut for not reading her thread properly  :lol:
> 
> Good detective work Rocco!


no actually i called you a donunt!!! its a special word for dont know anything!! god man get with the times.


----------



## rocco33

> at least i know you have been reading my threads and actually sinking them in


Oh yes, we've been reading them - shame you haven't been reading the replies! I don't know why you feel the need to keep justifying yourself - I think we've all got the true picture


----------



## Amy&Ted

sammykins said:


> no actually i called you a donunt!!! its a special word for dont know anything!! god man get with the times.


A special word?  crikey moses how old are you? Sounds like something a 15 year old would come out with that has nothing better to do in the school holidays but troll forums


----------



## RAINYBOW

sammykins said:


> yes when i spoke about the dog in my other post we had it here for a month to train it, i said it was my dog-what is that a crime! i dont need to tell you lot that it was going to be for my fil, what the hell has that got to do with you as to whos dog it is etc, but i spoke of him as if he was mine as we had him here. I was on here just getting advice about his legs, not to have a debate over whos dog he was - at least i know you have been reading my threads and actually sinking them in - im rather surprised! but yes he was always been for my fil. I havnt lied-got no need to, what would i gain from that! I just didnt need to give you all the ins and out when im asking for problems about his legs.
> 
> And yes the foster parent knows he had problems with his legs, but if any of you owned a dog like this you would know that they have growth problems, and any large dog will most probably have something wrong with thier legs as they get older.
> 
> Great to see i have had some very positive messages in my private mail box!! Thanks guys.


You are talking utter tosh about large breeds and you made absolutely NO mention of his health problems in your original post on this thread where you are clearly asking someone on here to take him on, just his behavioural issues.

Hope you have found someone with deep pockets to take this lad on aswell as a huge amount of experience, time and patience. Unless you are going to offer to pay all costs for the fostererer/new owners ????


----------



## rocco33

> at least i know you have been reading my threads and actually sinking them in





> but yes he was always been for my fil. I havnt lied





> Anyway after all this madness, and after the breeder saying he would take him back, our father in law has fallen in love with him and wants to take him on! So he is here to stay!


Clearly you dont' read you own posts either  so why you should expect us to is beyond me  

Oh well.... trip trap.... trip trap....


----------



## Cleo38

sammykins said:


> yes when i spoke about the dog in my other post *we had it here for a month to train it*, i said it was my dog-what is that a crime! i dont need to tell you lot that it was going to be for my fil, what the hell has that got to do with you as to whos dog it is etc, but i spoke of him as if he was mine as we had him here. I was on here just getting advice about his legs, not to have a debate over whos dog he was - at least i know you have been reading my threads and actually sinking them in - im rather surprised! but yes he was always been for my fil. I havnt lied-got no need to, what would i gain from that! I just didnt need to give you all the ins and out when im asking for problems about his legs.
> 
> And yes the foster parent knows he had problems with his legs, but if any of you owned a dog like this you would know that they have growth problems, and any large dog will most probably have something wrong with thier legs as they get older.
> 
> Great to see i have had some very positive messages in my private mail box!! Thanks guys.


IT??? 

As for your 'training' in the month - what a cracking job you must have done!

LOL, it's quite ironic the way you refer to us not reading your posts correctly when they differ quite condsiderably in their content .... who knows what the truth really is ... you don;t seem to .... maybe you should read through them again to take notes!


----------



## sammykins

DoubleTrouble said:


> To the original poster!
> Sammykins! when you come onto forums, any forum, any posts you have made during your time here are there for you all to see!
> 
> If you check back to February of this year! when you puppy was seven weeks old You clearly say that the dog is yours! T'is there for all to check! So we can only assume you are a liar! is that correct? Because from where I am sat and taking into account that you have lied once what reason is there for us to believe you when you say the dog has bitten?
> I think my first assumption of you was the right one! and that is that you just got sick of the dog! dress it up how you like - but it's all there is black and white!
> Now you will probably understand why this thread has gone the way it has!
> People like you do not deserve the love of a dog!
> The sarcastic one!! DT


You truly dont have a clue, what i have said in the first post is all that has happened, nothing more nothing less, if you dont want to believe me then dont. But i could of sold him for a good few hundred pound to someone not telling them any background history! Now that would be irresponsible! So why would i lie about him biting, what would i have to gain from that, well apart from abuse from you bunch of donunts!!


----------



## Amy&Ted

sammykins said:


> You truly dont have a clue, what i have said in the first post is all that has happened, nothing more nothing less, if you dont want to believe me then dont. But i could of sold him for a good few hundred pound to someone not telling them any background history! Now that would be irresponsible! So why would i lie about him biting, what would i have to gain from that, well apart from abuse from you bunch of donunts!!


The only one being abusive here is you!


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## rocco33

> As for your 'training' in the month - what a cracking job you must have done!


Well they did a pretty good job of teaching it food guarding - I mean, what else is the poor dog supposed to learn when he gets his food taken off him


----------



## deb53

sammykins said:


> yes when i spoke about the dog in my other post we had it here for a month to train it, i said it was my dog-what is that a crime! i dont need to tell you lot that it was going to be for my fil, what the hell has that got to do with you as to whos dog it is etc, but i spoke of him as if he was mine as we had him here. I was on here just getting advice about his legs, not to have a debate over whos dog he was - at least i know you have been reading my threads and actually sinking them in - im rather surprised! but yes he was always been for my fil. I havnt lied-got no need to, what would i gain from that! I just didnt need to give you all the ins and out when im asking for problems about his legs.
> And yes the foster parent knows he had problems with his legs, but if any of you owned a dog like this you would know that they have growth problems, and any large dog will most probably have something wrong with thier legs as they get older.
> 
> Great to see i have had some very positive messages in my private mail box!! Thanks guys.


No you didnt feel the need to tell everyone the full story back then and you dont feel to give all the ins and outs now.......

.......certainly seems to be a lot more ins and outs to this poor pups life than you want us to know.

I just hope this poor pup finds happiness and love in a home that he rightly deserves and with someone who understands his breeding and his needs which obviously none of your "large" family do.


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## Guest

I have only just come across this thread.

One word comes to mind....Disgusting!

If you buy the dog, its your job to train it. You cant pass off a dog that could bite and seriously injure someone, That's just lazy of you.

Lack of training has caused this obviously, so its your (Or your dad whoever owns it) job to sort it, its not the new owners issue its yours!

I have no read all 12 pages of this thread but what I have read from other members I have completely agree'd with. You cant just pass off a dog like that and say "well the new owners knew about the bites" how would you feel if that dog killed a child because you didnt sort the problem?

Raising a dog isnt easy, but at 32 weeks its best to get the training done before it gets harder with age. 

Part of being a animal owner is being responsible for the animal you train!


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## sammykins

rocco33 said:


> Well they did a pretty good job of teaching it food guarding - I mean, what else is the poor dog supposed to learn when he gets his food taken off him


my god you lot really do take things so far, we dont literally steal his meal whilst he is eating it, but we do try and take his bone off him and pass it straight back, asking him to leave and drop etc, and yes we have moved his food away from him then given it straight back praising him, this isnt a daily event! We only visit once a week! But he isnt aggressive with us! I feel he needs to learn that we are allowed to touch his food. I personally dont know much about dogs but they do as they have had many and never had these problems before,

So tell me then if you are so experience how would you train a dog to not be food possesive?

Oh and when i say "we", "us" i mean either myself, fil, or other half (just in case you were wondering)


----------



## sammykins

Amy&Ted said:


> The only one being abusive here is you!


hmmmm i wasnt actually being abusive until some started to get personal, with the wrong facts


----------



## Amy&Ted

sammykins said:


> hmmmm i wasnt actually being abusive until some started to get personal, with the wrong facts


Hmm... you got personal with me and i never did  Ahh well... i'm off. I have better things to talk about than violent dogs who haven't been trained correctly.

I hope for the pups sake that he gets homed with someone who actually gives a toss about him and doesn't just throw him out like bad rubbish.


----------



## rocco33

> So tell me then if you are so experience how would you train a dog to not be food possesive?


You ADD food to a bowl not take it away - you are teaching it that human hands around food are a good thing not something that is going to result in food taken away. When you teach taking things away you don't 'take away' you swap for something of a higher value.

But it's all academic now isn't it.... you've given up on the dog.

Anyway, I'm bored with your justifications now..... just hope your poor dog has a better life ahead of him than he has had to date.


----------



## Amy&Ted

sammykins said:


> my god you lot really do take things so far, we dont literally steal his meal whilst he is eating it, but we do try and take his bone off him and pass it straight back, asking him to leave and drop etc, and yes we have moved his food away from him then given it straight back praising him, this isnt a daily event! We only visit once a week! But he isnt aggressive with us! I feel he needs to learn that we are allowed to touch his food. I personally dont know much about dogs but they do as they have had many and never had these problems before,
> 
> So tell me then if you are so experience how would you train a dog to not be food possesive?
> 
> Oh and when i say "we", "us" i mean either myself, fil, or other half (just in case you were wondering)


I don't touch my dogs food. I put his bowl down, when it's empty i pick it up. He'd happily let me touch his food because he's never felt threatened that it would be removed and taken away from him.

No way i'd want a dog of that size to have paranoia over his food :eek6: best way to lose an arm.


----------



## Guest

sammykins said:


> You truly dont have a clue, what i have said in the first post is all that has happened, nothing more nothing less, if you dont want to believe me then dont. But i could of sold him for a good few hundred pound to someone not telling them any background history! Now that would be irresponsible! So why would i lie about him biting, what would i have to gain from that, well apart from abuse from you bunch of donunts!!


That is my problem! I have more then a clue!
And your statement on another post stating that most large breed dogs have legs problems is not correct! Yes the risk is larger for the giant breeds! That is why we encourage buyers not to buy from puppy farmers and to only go for good health tested stock!

And in you favour!
As it happens I thing you drew the short straw from the breeder you used, and looking at the pictures as a beautiful boy it does look that there could be potential problems!

Seriously! I don't know where you are in the UK but it may be worth having a word with Sylvia at many tears, she has a strict do not pts policy and has worked with some horrific cases - (far worse then this) BUT! and this is NOT being sarcastic if you do go this way please please please make the biggest donation that you can possibly afford! The pups changes of a good home are very limited now due to the expensive health problems he is carrying!

And also please! if you go this was be completely honest with them.

All the best - for the dog!
DT


----------



## Guest

Amy&Ted said:


> I don't touch my dogs food. I put his bowl down, when it's empty i pick it up. He'd happily let me touch his food because he's never felt threatened that it would be removed and taken away from him.
> 
> No way i'd want a dog of that size to have paranoia over his food :eek6: best way to lose an arm.


I have never removed my dogs food! I have (inheritated probs) with my eldest - now nine! But my youngster I have from the day she came to me put my hand in her bowl whilst she is eating - feeding her with my hand from her bowl - I can go anywhere near her with whatever she has I can put my fingers in her bowl, he mouth, anywhere I want and she has never ever ever even turned er lip at me!


----------



## Amy&Ted

DoubleTrouble said:


> I have never removed my dogs food! I have (inheritated probs) with my eldest - now nine! But my youngster I have from the day she came to me put my hand in her bowl whilst she is eating - feeding her with my hand from her bowl - I can go anywhere near her with whatever she has I can put my fingers in her bowl, he mouth, anywhere I want and she has never ever ever even turned er lip at me!


That's how Ted is with me. I think it's good to have the confidence to be able to hand feed but physically taking the bowl away from an already aggressive dog is only going to make matters worse.


----------



## leashedForLife

sammykins said:


> If you think you would have the time to train Alfred then feel free to contact me, we are in surrey.
> Otherwise we really would have to *consider having him put to sleep*.


consider away, SK - 
just stop the emotional blackmail, please. :nono: RG and anxiety over children are both entirely addressable - 
if Ur F-I-L is too cheap or lazy to do the needed B-Mod, admit it, and get the dog euthanized.

passing on Ur problem-child - 
this DOG, separated FAR too-young from his dam, poorly socialized, etc - is IMO irresponsible in the extreme, 
and asking other ppl to make up for the lacks -- those things this dog was not provided --- by working the reader's emotion is contemptible. 
* did U or anyone else take this dog as a pup, thru basic training in a group class? 
did he meet the recommended minimum of 100 people of all ages, sexes, sizes, colors, etc, by 12-WO? 
if not - Why not? *

U were warned when he was an infant - that he would NEED behavioral intervention - 
and so far, it seems nobody did squat but feed him + pick-up poop. 
put him down - and stop playing the violin; *OR - get him the professional help that he needed, over SIX-MONTHS ago. * don't saddle someone else with a teenaged-dog with attitude.

*is he neutered? IF not - WHY not? * and if not - there is Step #1. 

disgusted, 
- terry


----------



## Guest

leashedForLife said:


> *is he neutered? IF not - WHY not? * and if not - there is Step #1.
> 
> disgusted,
> - terry


To young in my view to be castrated! the lad has enough problems already without risking more!!!


----------



## leashedForLife

Nonnie said:


> Im going to be rather unpopular here, but imo, i think if an owner is unwilling to be responsible for the animal they decided to purchase and home, then they should take it to the vets and be in the room as the dogs life is ended.
> 
> Rehoming or palming the dog off onto a rescue is both unfair and irresponsible.
> 
> No kill shelters dont always have the dogs best interest at heart, and a dog like this is likely to sit around for months, if not years. How that psychologically affects an animal, god only knows. I can only imagine lack of socialisation, training, exercise and most likely a poorer quality diet will create a very frustrated, low tolerance dog.
> 
> If a dog this young is already showing signs of aggression, then it should be removed from circulation if professional help wont be sought.
> 
> Rehoming such a dog either privately or through a centre, is irresponsible and downright dangerous.


Yes - i heartily agree.


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## sammykins

QUOTE=leashedForLife;1768248]consider away, SK - 
just stop the emotional blackmail, please. :nono: RG and anxiety over children are both entirely addressable - 
if Ur F-I-L is too cheap or lazy to do the needed B-Mod, admit it, and get the dog euthanized.

i would not have him put down so p*ss off, he deserves a life! There are places that can help him get sorted he is only young! He is not an aggressive dog, just a dog with a few issues and behavioural problems. We didnt know he had problems when he was younger, its only started to happen in the past couple of weeks. Have you owned one of these dogs?

even though i did say originally that we may have to consider having him pts, thats what my fil's option if he couldnt find a home.

But we have had a couple of offers so far to have him homed. So i would not have him pts! when he could only need a bit of fine tuning.

from disgusted


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## sammykins

Also i have heard from an experienced owner of these dogs that its best to get them neutured at 12 months as it can interfere with their growth if done any earlier - see i have done some research! Also he is not a teenager, he is still a pup, i thought they reached adolesence when they were 12 - 18 months, he is only 8 months!


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## sequeena

> Otherwise we really would have to consider having him put to sleep.


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## rocco33

> We didnt know he had problems when he was younger, its only started to happen in the past couple of weeks.


Well of course you wouldn't know he had problems when he was younger - he wouldn't have these problems - he's a puppy - a blank canvas. It is his training (or lack of) that have caused the problems.


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## Guest

sammykins said:


> Also i have heard from an experienced owner of these dogs that its best to get them neutured at 12 months as it can interfere with their growth if done any earlier - see i have done some research! Also he is not a teenager, he is still a pup, i thought they reached adolesence when they were 12 - 18 months, he is only 8 months!


Well actually there are differing views there! PERSONALLY I would not have a dog this size done much before the age of two! the reason being the growth plates need to close! BUT!! that said!! they do say that if a dog shows early signs of aggression then early castration should be considered! But we all know castration is not guaranteed to cure agression related issues!

Reading between the lines I seriously do wonder how agressive you dog really is? In my heart!! I really do not think that it is anywhere near as bad as you first suggested!

DT


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## sequeena

I think (if you can manage it) dogs should be neutered when they have matured. Smaller breeds tend to mature quicker than larger breeds, hence why I won't have my mastiff neutered until her second, perhaps 3rd season (depending on her age, I'd like her neutered before 3). Same with my shepherd.

Unless of course there is any medical reason or you simply cannot handle an intact dog or bitch.


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## rocco33

> Reading between the lines I seriously do wonder how agressive you dog really is? In my heart!! I really do not think that it is anywhere near as bad as you first suggested!


I agree - it sounds to me like it has had little training and the wrong sort of training. What a shame - the poor dog doesn't know what it expected of it


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## sammykins

I wouldnt say he was really aggresive, not sure if i have said that on previous posts, more unpredictable. But what i said that he has done is all that he has done, he hasnt shown any more signs of aggression or problems. And doesnt sit their snarling, im not afraid of him! so he cant be that aggressive. I would start to gt afraid though when he gets fully grown and would still be doing it then.

But he is just unpredictable with children as he will jump up and make a little growl and snap (but this has only happened a few times, when my son was walking across the room-with no food) . He has jumped up and growled at my other son too when he was eating some roses out of a tin! i didnt find that out til tonight! 

Apart from that the 2 times when he bit was when he was eating his bone and he got alarmed, by 1 person putting his hand near the dog whilst he was eating it, to dust off the crumbs off his shoe. And the other when a chair was moved near where the dog was eating his bone! So i wouldnt really call this aggressive, but i think i have made it sound alot worse by saying "what if" and thats where the problem is. So i feel he has food possession and is showing his dominance with my son, probably to show him whos boss.

I wouldnt say he needs to be pts, just needs an experienced owner


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## Guest

sammykins said:


> I wouldnt say he was really aggresive, not sure if i have said that on previous posts, more unpredictable. But what i said that he has done is all that he has done, he hasnt shown any more signs of aggression or problems. And doesnt sit their snarling, im not afraid of him! so he cant be that aggressive. I would start to gt afraid though when he gets fully grown and would still be doing it then.
> 
> But he is just unpredictable with children as he will jump up and make a little growl and snap (but this has only happened a few times, when my son was walking across the room-with no food) . He has jumped up and growled at my other son too when he was eating some roses out of a tin! i didnt find that out til tonight!
> 
> Apart from that the 2 times when he bit was when he was eating his bone and he got alarmed, by 1 person putting his hand near the dog whilst he was eating it, to dust off the crumbs off his shoe. And the other when a chair was moved near where the dog was eating his bone! So i wouldnt really call this aggressive, but i think i have made it sound alot worse by saying "what if" and thats where the problem is. So i feel he has food possession and is showing his dominance with my son, probably to show him whos boss.
> 
> I wouldnt say he needs to be pts, just needs an experienced owner


OK! great! we are moving forward- now please be completely honest! but what is the situation with his legs now? Is he having treatment, has the problem worsened or has it got better? and is he insured?
DT


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## Guest

The reason I am asking about the insurance is that is he is an option may be (with help) to retain him in your ownership and look for a good fosterer a initially sort out the health issues whilst still covered on the insurance


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## deb53

...so finally after 20 pages a better picture is forming


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## sammykins

im confused as i have only repeated the same things i said in my original post? Not sure how we have moved forward in anyway, nothing i have said has changed.

And yes his legs are totally fine, we had to change his food - cant remember what it was but the protein had to be a certain percentage and other ingredients had to be modified. Basically not on puppy food as this can speed the growth. Dont know what food he is eating at the moment, but i know he goes to tescos to get it now as his feet are fine. I didnt have to get a specialist in the end (tbh the vets didnt really have much of a clue about it! useless) we did alot of research ourselves and whatever we did it worked! we massaged his legs and didnt take him for walks, the garden was enough for him, changed his bowl height and didnt let him use any stairs etc.

Anyway yep he is happy and healthy


----------



## Guest

sammykins said:


> im confused as i have only repeated the same things i said in my original post? Not sure how we have moved forward in anyway, nothing i have said has changed.
> 
> And yes his legs are totally fine, we had to change his food - cant remember what it was but the protein had to be a certain percentage and other ingredients had to be modified. Basically not on puppy food as this can speed the growth. Dont know what food he is eating at the moment, but i know he goes to tescos to get it now as his feet are fine. I didnt have to get a specialist in the end (tbh the vets didnt really have much of a clue about it! useless) we did alot of research ourselves and whatever we did it worked! we massaged his legs and didnt take him for walks, the garden was enough for him, changed his bowl height and didnt let him use any stairs etc.
> 
> Anyway yep he is happy and healthy


OK! so what we have is a dog who has food/guarding issues and not much else?

Do you think that it could be possible with the chair incident is that he was startled and his automatic response was to jump up and snap!! when he had done this did he Back OFF immediately?

With you son running across the room!! could this have been over excitement? could he have been playing? When young dogs find their voices the do make some odd sounds that could be missinterputated!

And re the bone incident - we are back to the food guarding issue!

What I am saying is the only real probs this boy has is that he is guarding his food! yes or no?


----------



## deb53

sammykins said:


> im confused as i have only repeated the same things i said in my original post? Not sure how we have moved forward in anyway, nothing i have said has changed.
> 
> And yes his legs are totally fine, we had to change his food - cant remember what it was but the protein had to be a certain percentage and other ingredients had to be modified. Basically not on puppy food as this can speed the growth. Dont know what food he is eating at the moment, but i know he goes to tescos to get it now as his feet are fine. I didnt have to get a specialist in the end (tbh the vets didnt really have much of a clue about it! useless) we did alot of research ourselves and whatever we did it worked! we massaged his legs and didnt take him for walks, the garden was enough for him, changed his bowl height and didnt let him use any stairs etc.
> 
> Anyway yep he is happy and healthy


What food is he on? If it is from a Supermarket ie Tescos then maybe not a

premium food and he's on a diet which is full of additives.

This certainly wont help his behavior ....not that this will affect the fact of his

total lack of training but its certainly something to look into.


----------



## rocco33

> OK! so what we have is a dog who has food/guarding issues and not much else?
> 
> Do you think that it could be possible with the chair incident is that he was startled and his automatic response was to jump up and snap!! when he had done this did he Back OFF immediately?
> 
> With you son running across the room!! could this have been over excitement? could he have been playing? When young dogs find their voices the do make some odd sounds that could be missinterputated!
> 
> And re the bone incident - we are back to the food guarding issue!
> 
> What I am saying is the only real probs this boy has is that he is guarding his food! yes or no?


I think you're probably right DT - resource guarding because he's learnt to guard his food cos it gets taken away and over boisterous typical doggy play with children (in a strong breed - both character and physique) with a dog that has never been taught bite inhibition - jumping up, scratches - perfectly normal for a puppy that hasn't been taught not to. Easily solved, but I don't think this family have the inclination to do so or the ability, so he would be better of elsewhere.


----------



## sammykins

my son didnt run across the room, just walked, he wasnt playing with him, he literally walked from the computer to me in a straight line.

What im saying is that he has food guarding issues and he is not sure about children. He definatly growled and snapped as he has done the same thing a few times, There was only one time when it invloved food... when my 9 year old was in the kitchen near his food bucket he jumped up on his food bucket and lunged forward a bit with a short growl. That was the first time he had ever shown any of this type of behaviour with food. And the other couple of times he has just done it out of the blue, and not when he has been played with, so it cant be because he got over excited, the kids are too scared to play due to his size and as he jumps up alot when playing it hurts them.

He isnt insured-we would just of paid the bills when it came to it, a mastiff was sooo expensive, we might as well of just saved!

here are some pictures to show you that he his healthy and happy!


----------



## Guest

Nice looking lad!
One last question!
What is he like with other dogs!

oh!
Two actually!
Did you actually see both the Mother and the father! if so can you tell me which breed the mother was and which the father was!!

Maybe my eyes arn't working right! BUT! as first glance he does look a little on the small side bearing in mind his parentage!


----------



## sammykins

sammykins said:


> my son didnt run across the room, just walked, he wasnt playing with him, he literally walked from the computer to me in a straight line.
> 
> What im saying is that he has food guarding issues and he is not sure about children. He definatly growled and snapped as he has done the same thing a few times, There was only one time when it invloved food... when my 9 year old was in the kitchen near his food bucket he jumped up on his food bucket and lunged forward a bit with a short growl. That was the first time he had ever shown any of this type of behaviour with food. And the other couple of times he has just done it out of the blue, and not when he has been played with, so it cant be because he got over excited, the kids are too scared to play due to his size and as he jumps up alot when playing it hurts them.
> 
> He isnt insured-we would just of paid the bills when it came to it, a mastiff was sooo expensive, we might as well of just saved!
> 
> here are some pictures to show you that he his healthy and happy!


I must add we have only picked up the bowl and put it back down about 4 or 5 times! i doubt that is going to make much of a difference, but maybe we went the wrong way of doing it, but you need to be able to pick up and touch his food to get him used to you touching it! he just isnt any good with his bone apart from when fil touches it that is fine, but he will growl at us!


----------



## momentofmadness

sammykins said:


> my son didnt run across the room, just walked, he wasnt playing with him, he literally walked from the computer to me in a straight line.
> 
> What im saying is that he has food guarding issues and he is not sure about children. He definatly growled and snapped as he has done the same thing a few times, There was only one time when it invloved food... when my 9 year old was in the kitchen near his food bucket he jumped up on his food bucket and lunged forward a bit with a short growl. That was the first time he had ever shown any of this type of behaviour with food. And the other couple of times he has just done it out of the blue, and not when he has been played with, so it cant be because he got over excited, the kids are too scared to play due to his size and as he jumps up alot when playing it hurts them.
> 
> He isnt insured-we would just of paid the bills when it came to it, a mastiff was sooo expensive, we might as well of just saved!
> 
> here are some pictures to show you that he his healthy and happy!


Yep a picture of health....

But if any one needs to sort and help him it should really be your family with some expert assistance..

When you come on a forum you have to be very careful how you put things and I am afraid the way you have put some stuff hasn't really helped you....

Only you can decide what to do with the dog... But really I dont believe a rescue wil have the time and money to spend on him.. Is he DDB x Mastiff or DDB x Neo


----------



## sammykins

DoubleTrouble said:


> Nice looking lad!
> One last question!
> What is he like with other dogs!
> 
> oh!
> Two actually!
> Did you actually see both the Mother and the father! if so can you tell me which breed the mother was and which the father was!!
> 
> Maybe my eyes arn't working right! BUT! as first glance he does look a little on the small side bearing in mind his parentage!


i didnt, no as i didnt buy the dog, but my other half did. i think the nepolitan mastiff was the bitch and the DDB was the male. He is big for 8 months, im not sure you get a good idea with the camera. But when he stands up his face is in my face and he can put his paws over my shoulders and im 5"8.

Oh and fine with dogs, he doesnt go running towards them, and when i have taken him out he will sniff them and be fine. when he first went out after his legs got better a dog walked around the corner and he rolled on his back and wet himself! bles shim i think he got really scared.


----------



## sammykins

Only you can decide what to do with the dog... But really I dont believe a rescue wil have the time and money to spend on him.. Is he DDB x Mastiff or DDB x Neo

DDB X Neo Mastiff

mum is Neo, dad is DDB


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## rocco33

> he just isnt any good with his bone apart from when fil touches it that is fine, but he will growl at us!


Quite simply, why does he have a bone? Bones are the highest resource to a dog. I never give any of my puppies bones until they have learnt how to behave around food. And to continue to give him bones when he is displaying resource guarding is asking for trouble.



> I must add we have only picked up the bowl and put it back down about 4 or 5 times! i doubt that is going to make much of a difference,


But how much training have you done to make sure that he is happy and comfortable with humans around his bowl - ie giving him half his meal and adding to it while he is eating or adding some extra tasty treats? For every bad experience a dog has you need to reinforce it with 10 good ones.

Training a dog isn't rocket science, but it does require some understanding of canine behaviour and being able to retrain/modify the parts that are not acceptable in a human home.

Was he ever taken to puppy classes? If so, did you not seek advice as soon as problems started?


----------



## Guest

At eight month believe it or not he will have about reached the height that he is going to be! OK!! he is still growing - but there will be very very little movement upwards.

What is his height to his withers would you say?? I'm guessing 23" ish???


----------



## Guest

sammykins said:


> Only you can decide what to do with the dog... But really I dont believe a rescue wil have the time and money to spend on him.. Is he DDB x Mastiff or DDB x Neo
> 
> DDB X Neo Mastiff
> 
> mum is Neo, dad is DDB


Sadly NO rescue will have bucketloads money to spend on him! or very very little!
How is he with other dogs??

I am going to be honest with you! I really think the two breeds he is supposed to be could well be incorrect!

regards
DT


----------



## momentofmadness

DoubleTrouble said:


> At eight month believe it or not he will have about reached the height that he is going to be! OK!! he is still growing - but there will be very very little movement upwards.
> 
> What is his height to his withers would you say?? I'm guessing 23" ish???


My mates are Pure DDB and they look a lot bigger I understand he is a pup.. But he looks ABD height In fact his legs and colours are excelently Winston the ABD from behind me..


----------



## Guest

momentofmadness said:


> My mates are Pure DDB and they look a lot bigger I understand he is a pup.. But he looks ABD height In fact his legs and colours are excelently Winston the ABD from behind me..


Hi mate!
there will not be much upward movement now!
remember you weims when they were pupsters! did you ever think that they would grown into them paws!

He will be filling out now!


----------



## sammykins

God knows hes not here with me about 10 miles away in fact!

cant measure him, so dont know but he is a very heavy chunky dog. I cant believe he wont stop growing upwards anymore, his dad looked massive in pictures in saw. But who knows i dont know about that.


----------



## momentofmadness

DoubleTrouble said:


> Hi mate!
> there will not be much upward movement now!
> remember you weims when they were pupsters! did you ever think that they would grown into them paws!
> 
> He will be filling out now!


Yeah I know.. He looks a ringer for Winston the ABD behind me.. Im gonna try and get a pic of him.. Off to FB to find one..  He just isn't as wide as winston


----------



## sammykins

DoubleTrouble said:


> Sadly NO rescue will have bucketloads money to spend on him! or very very little!
> How is he with other dogs??
> 
> I am going to be honest with you! I really think the two breeds he is supposed to be could well be incorrect!
> 
> regards
> DT


Oh and fine with dogs, he doesnt go running towards them, and when i have taken him out he will sniff them and be fine. when he first went out after his legs got better a dog walked around the corner and he rolled on his back and wet himself! bles shim i think he got really scared.

As for the 2 breeds my otherhalf saw them and he knows the difference between a breed of dog, he also has pictures somewhere on the computer of the parents, but was defo DDB and neo.


----------



## Guest

sammykins said:


> God knows hes not here with me about 10 miles away in fact!
> 
> cant measure him, so dont know but he is a very heavy chunky dog. I cant believe he wont stop growing upwards anymore, his dad looked massive in pictures in saw. But who knows i dont know about that.


Seriously! they tend to reach their height quite quickly! they fill out. You may get another inch!! but certainly not another six .


----------



## rocco33

So have you found this wonderful home for him that is going to take him on? or is he going into rescue?


----------



## Starlite

More ABD x bullmastiff

head doesnt look right at all for the so called parentage never mind the rest of the lad :confused1:


----------



## leashedForLife

sammykins said:


> There are places that can help him get sorted he is only young! He is not an aggressive dog, just a dog with a few issues and behavioural problems. We didnt know he had problems when he was younger, its only started to happen in the past couple of weeks.


i said when U ** got ** this pup, who was separated from his dam + sibs 
at only 3.5-WO, that he would NEED behavioral intervention - then.

did he get extra socialization with other dogs? 
early training?

i am guessing, No - ergo, U have serious behavioral issues, which did not arise from a vacuum. they were predictable. 
they did not come on *in the past few weeks - * they MANIFESTED over the past few weeks, just as a cancer arises from a single cell, into a diagnosable tumor. 


sammykins said:


> Have you owned one of these dogs?


 i don't have to OWN a Dogue-X to know what mastiff-breeds are like - i am a trainer, and have been doing this for more than half my life, now - with many breeds, types, mixes, ages, etc. 


sammykins said:


> even though i did say originally that we may have to consider having him pts, thats what my fil's option if he couldnt find a home.


 IMO euthanizing a dog with a bite history is far-more responsible and respectable, than is passing him along to someone ELSE - however well-intended that someone else may be. 
love will not fix his behavioral issues; serious B-Mod is needed, IMO - which opinion is shaped by over 25-years of doing B-Mod, with dogs who had biting histories, or without bite-histories. 


sammykins said:


> ...he could only need a bit of fine tuning.


 this is not _'fine tuning' - _ it is behavioral modification, remedial socialization, and a load of TIME + Money, too.

if it is so petty as 'a little fine-tuning' - the F-I-L could fix it himself, with a good book or hands-on help from a trainer.

JMO + IME, 
- terry


----------



## Guest

Starlite said:


> More ABD x bullmastiff
> 
> head doesnt look right at all for the so called parentage never mind the rest of the lad :confused1:


Staffie cross (moment of madness thought ABD!
so I'm going with that!


----------



## sammykins

whats an ABD? well he saw the parents and took pictures and they were defo those types of dog, the DDB was a definate as i remember the picture well, as for the neo, i cant remember what she looked like and wouldnt quite know the breed if i saw the same dog again. But i know a DDB when i see one!

2 foster homes have said they would take him and they deal with this type of dog, and also a rescue - but hes not going there.

Im just waiting to find out where they are now so i can decide then, they both sound the same. I have had alot of private positive messages from people saying the know people that can help. I will make sure i choose the right place for him!


----------



## momentofmadness

The ABD from behind me this was about age 5-6 months and the 2nd pic with one of his litter mates.. they have regular meets..


----------



## rocco33

> if it is so petty as 'a little fine-tuning' - the F-I-L could fix it himself, with a good book or hands-on help from a trainer.


Absolutely spot on Terry.

It is either a real problem and should be pts or an adolescent dog that has had scant regard to it's training and taught to resource guard.

We can guess on the internet, but either way, particularly with the interpretations of the owner, we would be none the wiser. Only a behaviourist on the ground could do such an assessment, but Sammykins stated from the start that they didn't want to bother getting a behaviourist in, they just wanted rid of the dog.


----------



## sammykins

leashedForLife said:


> i said when U ** got ** this pup, who was separated from his dam + sibs
> at only 3.5-WO, that he would NEED behavioral intervention - then.
> 
> he wasnt seperated from them that young! i wasnt too sure when he was weaned i thought it was 3.5 weeks but it was a bit longer according to my oh. We got him when he was 7 and half weeks im sure.


----------



## momentofmadness

sammykins said:


> leashedForLife said:
> 
> 
> 
> i said when U ** got ** this pup, who was separated from his dam + sibs
> at only 3.5-WO, that he would NEED behavioral intervention - then.
> 
> he wasnt seperated from them that young! i wasnt too sure when he was weaned i thought it was 3.5 weeks but it was a bit longer according to my oh. We got him when he was 7 and half weeks im sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 3.5 weeks weaned onto solids?
Click to expand...


----------



## deb53

Have to say that in ratio to the chair he is standing by he does not look the size I would espect from his parentage and also his face too.

A handsome boy but I would say not a DDB X NEO.

Were there other dogs and bitches at this place he came from?


----------



## momentofmadness

He does have DDB eyes though.. great big googly ones..lol


----------



## Guest

Well Sammykins!
I'm off to beddybyes!
Totally worn out!
I wish you every success in getting this dog the home he does deserve!

But at the moment there seems to be more holes then a collender to try and fill in!


----------



## Guest

momentofmadness said:


> He does have DDB eyes though.. great big googly ones..lol


I don't see them! at all!! would have expected a lot more lose skin! but then you can never be sure with a cross!!


----------



## sammykins

he defo isnt a staffie cross, he has a wrinkly nose and very wide deep jaw, i think the angle of my pics dont show the true likeness of him. But he is defo the cross what i said, all the pups were exactly like him and they were in his home with the parents! all looked very sound according to my hubby!

So i have no doubts that he is what he is.


----------



## Guest

sammykins said:


> all looked very sound according to my hubby!
> 
> So i have no doubts that he is what he is.


Did he go to specsavers


----------



## momentofmadness

sammykins said:


> he defo isnt a staffie cross, he has a wrinkly nose and very wide deep jaw, i think the angle of my pics dont show the true likeness of him. But he is defo the cross what i said, all the pups were exactly like him and they were in his home with the parents! all looked very sound according to my hubby!
> 
> So i have no doubts that he is what he is.


I have put a pic of an American Bulldog on here for you to see.. But I defo see DDB eyes on him


----------



## sammykins

off to bed now, have an arguement over what he is, but he is the 2 crosses i said. My other half knows what type of dog is what!


----------



## momentofmadness

sammykins said:


> off to bed now, have an arguement over what he is, but he is the 2 crosses i said. My other half knows what type of dog is what!


I am not arguing is all I am saying is he looks small for his type.. And he reminds me so much of winston


----------



## Guest

sammykins said:


> off to bed now, have an arguement over what he is, but he is the 2 crosses i said. My other half knows what type of dog is what!


As I said! all the best in getting him another home! sure with a little work in the right hands he will make a cracking dog!! and I did send you a message!
DT


----------



## sammykins

defo not an ABD, we had a bulldog for 13 years! so we know the difference between the type of dogs.

The pictures i saw of the 2 dogs that my oh met, were a DDB and a Neo that was shorter than the DDB and had drool coming out of its mouth in a big way! and looked big! thats all i remember of her.

But i shall dig the pics out of the parents


----------



## deb53

But was there not a query when you were going to return him originally with various members of the family being involved in differnt breeding IE 6 litters from his MUM and the breeder not being able to take him and other members being asked?

Who is too know that the dogs seen were in fact the parents or the Neo anyway.

Can see DDB eyes now looking Momentofmadness but not the height and wrinkles.


----------



## momentofmadness

sammykins said:


> defo not an ABD, we had a bulldog for 13 years! so we know the difference between the type of dogs.
> 
> The pictures i saw of the 2 dogs that my oh met, were a DDB and a Neo that was shorter than the DDB and had drool coming out of its mouth in a big way! and looked big! thats all i remember of her.
> 
> But i shall dig the pics out of the parents


It would be worth finding out what his parents personalities are like... x


----------



## momentofmadness

sammykins said:


> defo not an ABD, we had a bulldog for 13 years! so we know the difference between the type of dogs.
> 
> The pictures i saw of the 2 dogs that my oh met, were a DDB and a Neo that was shorter than the DDB and had drool coming out of its mouth in a big way! and looked big! thats all i remember of her.
> 
> But i shall dig the pics out of the parents


I dont mean a bulldog.. I mean the american bulldog.. Im trying to think of a film you may have seen a slighter built of one in.. the fild im thinking has a persian cat I think retriever and the ABD and they get lost etc..


----------



## sammykins

DoubleTrouble said:


> As I said! all the best in getting him another home! sure with a little work in the right hands he will make a cracking dog!! and I did send you a message!
> DT


i read it once and now its disappeared from my inbox


----------



## leashedForLife

DoubleTrouble said:


> To young in my view to be castrated!


DT, the modifier is TOO young... [spelling]... and we are not debating castrating U, don't get personally squeamish. 


DoubleTrouble said:


> ...the lad has enough problems already without risking more!!!


pediatric desex, under 12-WO:

Early Spay/neuter

this dog at 8-MO is within 4 to 5-Weeks of his testosterone PEAK for his lifetime - at between 9-MO + 10-MO, 
after which it declines to its adult-level.

behaviorally, the testosterone level circulating in his bloodstream makes him *more reactive* - 
easier to arouse, more prone to *bite*, more likely to *resource guard*, more *territorial*, more resentful of being intruded upon - *personal space*...

*in short, the very problems that sammykins is complaining about. *

reducing his testosterone level by neutering, will make B-Mod for the behavioral issues much more-likely to succeed. 
IOW - it improves his prognosis.

OTOH - he can die with a vets needle in his forearm, still proudly wearing those noble testes - 
*which of course, as he is a mixed breed from poor parentage and he is unscreened for any genetic problems 
(which would be heritable for his progeny), we would NOT use those testes as the reproductive organs they are supposed to be... Right? they are decorative? *

U remind me, DT, of the former head of the American Medical Assoc - he was once famously quoted as saying, 
_"no breast is good enough to keep; no testicle is bad enough to get rid of."_

IMO - which of course, is merely that of any untutored numpty - he can lose the testes ASAP, 
or lose his life in a few more months. [shrug] good luck with that, 
- terry


----------



## sammykins

momentofmadness said:


> I dont mean a bulldog.. I mean the american bulldog.. Im trying to think of a film you may have seen a slighter built of one in.. the fild im thinking has a persian cat I think retriever and the ABD and they get lost etc..


i know what you mean but we know all those types of dog! The Neo mum was with the pups and she was friendly. The DDB was in the kitchen at the time and jumped up on his big stair gate to welcome my oh.

They both seemed fine.


----------



## momentofmadness

Just incase ..... it was boggling my brain the film I was thinking was homeward bound...
Homeward bound image by pawsforthought_92 on Photobucket


----------



## rocco33

> It would be worth finding out what his parents personalities are like...


Not sure there's much point - it clearly came from a byb and Sammykins (or Sammykin's FIL) wants rid of it asap.

I just hope Sammykins is a better judge of a new home than they were of a breeder!


----------



## sammykins

deb53 said:


> But was there not a query when you were going to return him originally with various members of the family being involved in differnt breeding IE 6 litters from his MUM and the breeder not being able to take him and other members being asked?
> 
> Who is too know that the dogs seen were in fact the parents or the Neo anyway.
> 
> Can see DDB eyes now looking Momentofmadness but not the height and wrinkles.


No there wasnt other litters involved, what i said was that the mum could of had 6 litters, but i was wrong - not sure why i thought that at the time but anyway. But yes he did avoid taking him back, prob didnt want to take him back on as he still had loads more to sell. But there was only the 2 dogs there with all the pups


----------



## sammykins

Sorry Terry when i read you messages they are written in code to me, havnt got a clue about the half the stuff your going on about. But defo wont be getting him pts.


----------



## sammykins

momentofmadness said:


> Just incase ..... it was boggling my brain the film I was thinking was homeward bound...
> Homeward bound image by pawsforthought_92 on Photobucket


My nephew has an ABD and Alfred doesnt resemble him at all. Im still sticking to what he is as there is no other reason to believe he is anything else.


----------



## deb53

sammykins said:


> No there wasnt other litters involved, what i said was that the mum could of had 6 litters, but i was wrong - not sure why i thought that at the time but anyway. But yes he did avoid taking him back, prob didnt want to take him back on as he still had loads more to sell. But there was only the 2 dogs there with all the pups[/QUOTE
> 
> i know that both the mum and dad of the dog belong to the breeder as pets and he has only bred these two together, i think but not too sure it was 6 litters they have had.[
> 
> Knew I recalled reading it at the time


----------



## hawksport

sammykins said:


> There was only one time when it invloved food... when my 9 year old was in the kitchen near his food bucket he jumped up on his food bucket and lunged forward a bit with a short growl.





sammykins said:


> He is also food possesive,he had a bone behind the sofa and when one of the kids moved a chair that was in front the of the sofa he came out and bit her! He has also bit my father in laws friend as he went to wipe some crumbs off his shoe (as the dog was eating next to his feet and got the crumbs on his shoe). He has also jumped and growled at my son when he went in the kitchen to get a biscuit.


I must be misunderstanding something here


----------



## rocco33

> I must be misunderstanding something here


Don't think you're misunderstanding anything - it's just the story and emphasis seems to change according to the replies!


----------



## momentofmadness

Ive just had a look at the pics on your other thread...

Now when i think of things that have happened in the past they may not be of the same animal.. 
But I am guessing the breeder didn't let that dog have a good run around or he would have had that pup with legs like that... Also My gues as I have seen a foal go like within two days of being born are that its tendons were too tight and his bones growing too quick.. Which can correct itself..


----------



## hawksport

rocco33 said:


> Don't think you're misunderstanding anything - it's just the story and emphasis seems to change according to the replies!


But that would be silly, how could anyone help or even worse rehome if they don't know the true full story


----------



## rocco33

> But that would be silly, how could anyone help or even worse rehome if they don't know the true full story


Sadly they don't seem to want any help - just someone to give the dog a new home. I suggested a behaviourist should be the first step but they didn't want the bother of that - just wanted to get rid of him.



> If you think you would have the time to train Alfred then feel free to contact me, we are in surrey. Otherwise we really would have to consider having him put to sleep.
> 
> I wasnt sure where to start and instead of having him put to sleep or given to a pound, i thought giving him to someone for free on a forum like this where people care about animals would be the best thing for him.


TBH, It is very irresponsible to rehome him without having had him assessed. Given the owners very limited knowledge of dogs and dog behaviour, they are not in any position to rehome him properly, but... they think they are and don't want to listen to any advice.


----------



## leashedForLife

sammykins said:


> Sorry Terry when i read you messages they are written in code to me, havnt got a clue about the half the stuff your going on about. But defo wont be getting him pts.


the post was to DT - *double-trouble* - who claims the 8-MO dog is 'too young' to be neutered - 
which is not true, but U do as U please - as U have done, getting the pup, giving him to the F-I-L, 
and now giving him away to someone else to 'fix'.

good luck to the dog - but i have sad doubts, 
- t


----------



## tiddlypup

i cant believe that yet again the same ones have attacked someone for posting for help,the op is trying her best to get the dog help.SHE didnt buy the dog nor approve of what her husband did but whats done is done,surely the important thing now is to help the dog,the op would dearly love to take him herself and work with him but has 3 small children and childminds 5 others so isnt in a position to help,so what does she do come on a forum where there are people who may be able to advise and/or help but no,she gets ripped apart,i would gladly take this boy but i in stockport,i dont drive,ive loads of experience with this breed and other mastiff types and rehabillitating them,if i cant they stay with me
as for bringing in a behaviourist,i for one couldnt afford the ridiculous prices they charge
ripping into the op wont help the pup,come on lets try be positive,if you cant help dont post here,god if any newbie is reading this and has god forbid made a mistake they wont ask for help,its this holier than thou attitude that gets dogs dumped or tied to rescues gates!!!!!


----------



## Guest

change of mind!


----------



## Amy&Ted

tiddlypup said:


> i cant believe that yet again the same ones have attacked someone for posting for help,the op is trying her best to get the dog help.SHE didnt buy the dog nor approve of what her husband did but whats done is done,surely the important thing now is to help the dog,the op would dearly love to take him herself and work with him but has 3 small children and childminds 5 others so isnt in a position to help,so what does she do come on a forum where there are people who may be able to advise and/or help but no,she gets ripped apart,i would gladly take this boy but i in stockport,i dont drive,ive loads of experience with this breed and other mastiff types and rehabillitating them,if i cant they stay with me
> as for bringing in a behaviourist,i for one couldnt afford the ridiculous prices they charge
> ripping into the op wont help the pup,come on lets try be positive,if you cant help dont post here,god if any newbie is reading this and has god forbid made a mistake they wont ask for help,its this holier than thou attitude that gets dogs dumped or tied to rescues gates!!!!!


I think the reason people are frustrated is that the OP only gave half the story, changed the story, has posted many conflicting inaccuracies and hadn't listened to advice that was given to them in good faith. There has been another thread by the OP brought up which shows that the dog did belong to them before the F.I.L as it had leg problems which are now cleared i do believe?

No one knows what to accept as the truth so it's very difficult i think for anyone to give solid advice in any way shape or form. The dog is the main concern here. A pup who never asked for any of the trouble it caused.


----------



## tiddlypup

Amy&Ted said:


> I think the reason people are frustrated is that the OP only gave half the story, changed the story, has posted many conflicting inaccuracies and hadn't listened to advice that was given to them in good faith. There has been another thread by the OP brought up which shows that the dog did belong to them before the F.I.L as it had leg problems which are now cleared i do believe?
> 
> No one knows what to accept as the truth so it's very difficult i think for anyone to give solid advice in any way shape or form. The dog is the main concern here. A pup who never asked for any of the trouble it caused.


but regardless to any story,theres a dog that needs help

DT not sure about your comment,others may not know what it means either
oops sorry just noticed why,lol
you DONT neuter these giant breeds at 8 mths


----------



## Amy&Ted

tiddlypup said:


> but regardless to any story,theres a dog that needs help
> 
> DT not sure about your comment,others may not know what it means either


Yup and amongst the frustration there has been help and advice given. Emotive subjects like this usually do come hand in hand with anger.

The fact is until this dog is seen and assessed by a professional... how can anyone rehome the poor thing. I wouldn't wish to take him on knowing his problems but then again i'm not an expert on big dogs so wouldn't have had one in the first place.

I think once his behavioural issues are tackled, he will make someone a lovely pet, someone who doesn't give him up rather than take time and effort to sort his problems.

To be honest if i was the OP i'd be mightily pissed off at my FIL for not being arsed to sort it out himself. I only hope he doesn't decide to get another dog that he will invariably have no time to train and so suffer the same fate again.

I think the OP has perhaps taken the brunt of our frustrations BUT it doesn't change the fact that there are inaccuracies here which make it hard to trust and believe someone?


----------



## RAINYBOW

RAINYBOW said:


> I totally agree with Rocco, this dog needs specialist assesment and very careful re homing if that is at all possible.
> 
> Just because people don't have children it doesn't mean the dog might not come into contact with children and the food aggression is clearly a big problem. This dog could still potentially make quite a mess of an adult if it attacked.





RAINYBOW said:


> Then why not contact a rescue who can take the dog and all the stress of assesing and re homing it  Surely thats a better option than offering him on an open forum where anyone could get hold of him ?? There are people who would take this dog on for all the wrong reasons and you really have no way of vetting against that.





tiddlypup said:


> but regardless to any story,theres a dog that needs help
> 
> DT not sure about your comment,others may not know what it means either
> oops sorry just noticed why,lol
> you DONT neuter these giant breeds at 8 mths


See my first 2 posts. I think i did. :confused1:

But to be fair the OP has moved position several times and it is impossible to work out if this dog is seriously aggressive and therefore really does need to be PTS or wether its actually not really a problem and can just be rehomed to someone with experience of the breeds involved.

This whole story has more holes in it than a moth eaten cardi and the OP has altered the story to suit the responses being given. Given previous threads also i don't think you can blame members for being frustrated. To not even want to consider getting in a professional to assess this dogs behaviour fully before passing it on is just downright stupid and irresponsible and shows a complete lack of respect for the person who will be brave and kindhearted enough to take this dog on.

This dog is clearly showing aggression towards kids !!!!! That should not be played down (which the OP now appears to be doing) or taken lightly.

I have dealt with Resource Guarding/Food aggression and it is totally unpredictable. It develops at an alarming rate and can switch from being food to other items with no warning, Oscar even guarded areas of the house when it was at its peak but to anyone else he just looked like he was relaxing.

This dog needs to see a qualified behaviourist ASAP which is the advice i originally gave and that was dismissed immediately.

*And to the OP, please put this dog into another area when your FIL has vistors until you have found a solution. This dog is a timebomb and potentially could attack someone with no warning causing serious damage*.

If you refuse to pay for some professional help at least do the responsible thing and protect people in the mean time.


----------



## tiddlypup

this is why when people stop me and say they would love a neo first thing i say is have you got small kids,its not that they are aggressive to kids they just see them on the same level,its not food aggression as such more back off its mine,now another dog would heed the first warning ie a glance but a child wouldnt even notice,this is why the op,her hubby and F.I.L have had no problems with food,he sees them as higher up in the pecking order
ive no doubt in my mind that he can be helped,i wish i lived nearer(wish i could bloody drive),id soon have him on the right track
they are fantastic dogs,smelly,slobbery,bloody downright stubborn but once you get them past that horrible what i call the 2 head stage,(come on we go through it with our kids,lol) you have a great loyal family member,not a first time dog and most certainly not a male
ooo and boy do they snore,ive got what sounds like a mini earthquake going on as i type:lol:


----------



## Amy&Ted

tiddlypup said:


> this is why when people stop me and say they would love a neo first thing i say is have you got small kids,its not that they are aggressive to kids they just see them on the same level,its not food aggression as such more back off its mine,now another dog would heed the first warning ie a glance but a child wouldnt even notice,this is why the op,her hubby and F.I.L have had no problems with food,he sees them as higher up in the pecking order
> ive no doubt in my mind that he can be helped,i wish i lived nearer(wish i could bloody drive),id soon have him on the right track
> they are fantastic dogs,smelly,slobbery,bloody downright stubborn but once you get them past that horrible what i call the 2 head stage,(come on we go through it with our kids,lol) you have a great loyal family member,not a first time dog and most certainly not a male
> ooo and boy do they snore,ive got what sounds like a mini earthquake going on as i type:lol:


If only the OP's FIL was as passionate as you are about getting him back on track :frown:


----------



## rocco33

> i cant believe that yet again the same ones have attacked someone for posting for help,the op is trying her best to get the dog help.


The OP did not come on asking for help, she came on asking for someone to take this dog on otherwise it would be pts!



> the op would dearly love to take him herself and work with him but has 3 small children and childminds 5 others so isnt in a position to help


The OP already moved it on when it had the problems with its legs - because, and I quote


> I did tell the breeder this morning and asked if he would take it back as i really dont need all this worry with a new dog


 and other comments in a similar vein. So exactly where do you get the impression that the OP would 'dearly love' to take him on. The impression from all her threads (not just this one) was that she wanted a problem free dog and anything else was too much bother.



> so what does she do come on a forum where there are people who may be able to advise and/or help but no,she gets ripped apart,


She was offered help and suggestions - if you look at the first reply (which was mine) I stressed that she should get a behaviourist in before rehoming. She didn't want the 'bother' of doing that if you look at her reply.



> as for bringing in a behaviourist,i for one couldnt afford the ridiculous prices they charge


The OP is insured with petplan (she mentions it on another thread) and they would cover the cost of a behaviourist. Regardless, a visit to the behaviourist would cost about £70 an hour. A small price to pay for doing the right thing.



> ive no doubt in my mind that he can be helped,


Really? No one can say that until it is assessed and it would be irresponsible to make that assumption over the internet. I think you may be right, but there is a possibility that is not the case so it needs assessing. Not only can it ONLY be assessed by someone on the ground seeing the dog, but there are enough changes to this story and the inexperience and lack of knowledge of the OP make it impossible to know what the true picture is, so any assumptions about it being fine are based on the OP's opinion who doesn't have the experience to interpret what is actually happening.



> ,its this holier than thou attitude that gets dogs dumped or tied to rescues gates!!!!


That's a ridiculous claim to make. There are many reasons why dogs get dumped at rescue - mostly because owners don't want to bother with them any more. I've volunteered in rescue long enough to see this attitude time and time again.


----------



## Guest

rocco33 said:


> The
> 
> She was offered help and suggestions - if you look at the first reply (which was mine) I stressed that she should get a behaviourist in before rehoming. She didn't want the 'bother' of doing that if you look at her reply.
> 
> The OP is insured with petplan (she mentions it on another thread) and they would cover the cost of a behaviourist. Regardless, a visit to the behaviourist would cost about £70 an hour. A small price to pay for doing the right thing.
> 
> That's a ridiculous claim to make. There are many reasons why dogs get dumped at rescue - mostly because owners don't want to bother with them any more. I've volunteered in rescue long enough to see this attitude time and time again.


I am not too sure about the insurance! I specifically asked that question last night and was sure the ~OP said the dog was not insured!! TBH! I ain't even going to waste my time checking!!

Re rescues! Couldn;t agree with you more! And the facts are there to see! check the 'type' of dog that the rescues are currently overrun with!! 
NOT for one moment suggesting that SBT and their type owners are bad owners!! NOT ever!! I have met Hobo and seen the wonderful job she has done with her dog! And sure there are many many many mores owners the same! But of the the bull type breeds sadly they do seem to have taken over by er! lets say some of the less desirables of late!

DT


----------



## Amy&Ted

DoubleTrouble said:


> I am not too sure about the insurance! I specifically asked that question last night and was sure the ~OP said the dog was not insured!! TBH! I ain't even going to waste my time checking!!
> 
> Re rescues! Couldn;t agree with you more! And the facts are there to see! check the 'type' of dog that the rescues are currently overrun with!!
> NOT for one moment suggesting that SBT and their type owners are bad owners!! NOT ever!! I have met Hobo and seen the wonderful job she has done with her dog! And sure there are many many many mores owners the same! But of the the bull type breeds sadly they do seem to have taken over by er! lets say some of the less desirables of late!
> 
> DT


I think from reading the previous thread that it was the free 4 week insurance you get through Pet Plan when you buy a new pup. So obviously now the dog is not insured. I could be wrong though.


----------



## rocco33

> But to be fair the OP has moved position several times and it is impossible to work out if this dog is seriously aggressive and therefore really does need to be PTS or wether its actually not really a problem and can just be rehomed to someone with experience of the breeds involved.


Exactly - and given the OP's lack of knowledge and experience it is quite possible that she is misinterpreting what she is seeing anyway.



> This whole story has more holes in it than a moth eaten cardi and the OP has altered the story to suit the responses being given. Given previous threads also i don't think you can blame members for being frustrated. To not even want to consider getting in a professional to assess this dogs behaviour fully before passing it on is just downright stupid and irresponsible and shows a complete lack of respect for the person who will be brave and kindhearted enough to take this dog on.


Agreed and lack of respect and care for the dog too because if it goes to the wrong home things will only get worse and then it's highly likely it will have no future.


----------



## ruth9

sammykins said:


> He is not an aggressive dog, just a dog with a few issues and behavioural problems. We didnt know he had problems when he was younger, its only started to happen in the past couple of weeks. Have you owned one of these dogs?


It's not the last couple of weeks. This below is copied from one of your posts back on 22nd April. I don't know how to multiquote.

He is becoming a little aggressive now with his food, when my children went over to see the dog, they stood next to the dog biscuits as they were in a jar next to the kids biscuits! anyway the dog was growling at the kids when they went near his jar that were on the side! funny thing.


----------



## rocco33

> I think from reading the previous thread that it was the free 4 week insurance you get through Pet Plan when you buy a new pup. So obviously now the dog is not insured.


Oh could be - it was on the thread when he was a 8 week old pup.

Regardless - the OP has on a number of occasions said that money is not an issue so I cannot understand why they are not prepared to get a behaviourist in.


----------



## Fuzzbugs!x

It's nothing more than an opinion regarding when dogs of large breeds should be neutered. Bronson was done at 18 months, mainly because he had his cruciate ligaments operated on and we didnt want him going through three major surgeries straight after each other. On the other hand all my mums dogs prior to our gang atm were all done at 6 months and never had any problems. You look at the arguments for each, then choose what one you prefer. It's personal choice. I can't believe some people are trying to sugarcoat this womans bullsh*t - alot of what shes saying doesnt add up at all. I for one find it amazingly difficult to believe that she has found a rescue that specialises in this type of dog at such short notice when up and down the country fantastic well behaved dogs are being turned away, never mind ones with issues. You can't just pass this off as a mistake and thats it. She didnt drop a glass, or stand on the dogs paw. It's slighlty bigger than that. Shes had this forum at her disposal scince she joined yet not once has she asked for help, not once did she think to search for help. She would've been given all the positive comments and help in the world from here if she had came on and said i need help with this dog. Instead she came on and said i've f*cked this dog up and now i'm giving up on him - take him or he gets pts You can't sugarcoat that. I don't think your a bad person or an idiot. Your just someone who lovesanimals when its conveinent for them. This is just my own personal opinion but i cant see much hope for this dog. Unless you intened to keep him, or your FIL does and work hard with him. I imagine his problems will escelate in a kennel environment. Yet another life on the line through the ignorance of others.


----------



## rocco33

> Originally Posted by sammykins
> He is not an aggressive dog, just a dog with a few issues and behavioural problems. We didnt know he had problems when he was younger, its only started to happen in the past couple of weeks. Have you owned one of these dogs?


So if he had a few issues and behavioural problems why was he going to be pts?



> It's not the last couple of weeks. This below is copied from one of your posts back on 22nd April. I don't know how to multiquote.
> 
> He is becoming a little aggressive now with his food, when my children went over to see the dog, they stood next to the dog biscuits as they were in a jar next to the kids biscuits! anyway the dog was growling at the kids when they went near his jar that were on the side! funny thing.


Thanks Ruth - back in April so they've had nearly four months to address this?


----------



## Guest

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> I can't believe some people are trying to sugarcoat this womans bullsh*t - alot of what shes saying doesnt add up at all. .


T'is not a case of sugar coating! but there comes a time (usually after 20 odd pages ) that you realize that you are getting nowhere! And that maybe its time to change your stategy! The is a saying - one of my favorites!
And this is! "You don't catch bees with vinigar"


----------



## Fuzzbugs!x

DoubleTrouble said:


> T'is not a case of sugar coating! but there comes a time (usually after 20 odd pages ) that you realize that you are getting nowhere! And that maybe its time to change your stategy! The is a saying - one of my favorites!
> And this is! "You don't catch bees with vinigar"


Your talking to a wall. Shes had plenty of advise - yet the only posts she has replied to are the ones where people are starting to lose their rag. She wants people to sit there and agree with her, tell her what shes doing is right and make her feel better about herself. I don't even know why this thread is still open. She has clearly made up her mind - she had done from the first post on this thread.


----------



## Matrix/Logan

Fuzzbugs!x said:


> I'm not going to be popular for this but you know - f*ck it . Did you do anything when this dog was bought? Was there any kind of proper socialisation with children? As for the food possesiveness - your dog should be taught from day one that anyone can take any food from it. I mean no matter how much you try to sugar coat it you've quite clearly done **** all and the result is right in front of your eyes . So big pat on the back for you - yet another eejit buying yet another tricky cross without a clue in the world what they're doing and then when the dog doesnt behave perfectly, pass it on to someone else. Jesus is it just me or is the simple solution not when the kids are over put the flipping dog in another room or a crate . Thats saying you dont want to work at it or get help in. Do the world a favour though - please dont buy another dog after this, rescue centres dont need yet another addition. I mean come on!!! You've been on this forum scince you bought the dog right! Have you ever asked for advice when it all started? Im guessing no you just came here when it was decided he dog should be patched. This situation could have been avoided if you had just done your flipping research on having a dog. & don't hit out with 'oh its his dog, i cant do anything' YOU paid for it, it's in this position because of YOU - so don't try and coward out .
> 
> ps. i havent read the whole thread as i got too peed off  so i apologize if anything has changed and the op has grown some brain cells in he mean time  x


In the original post the OP has said that the dog has gone for her father-in-law and his friend too!! Do you think that is acceptable then and the dog should only be prevented from biting children???? I am confused as to why you would advise the dog be put in a crate to prevent the biting of the children but think it's okay that he attacks the owner and his friends?? That surely isn't the advice of a sensible dog owner either is it????!!!!!


----------



## RAINYBOW

ruth9 said:


> It's not the last couple of weeks. This below is copied from one of your posts back on 22nd April. I don't know how to multiquote.
> 
> He is becoming a little aggressive now with his food, when my children went over to see the dog, they stood next to the dog biscuits as they were in a jar next to the kids biscuits! anyway the dog was growling at the kids when they went near his jar that were on the side! funny thing.


Priceless  You really couldn't make this stuff up could you 

And people wonder why some members are a bit peeved.


----------



## CarolineH

Poor dog. I hope it finds a proper home asap with people who actually care about it.


----------



## tiddlypup

rocco33 said:


> The OP did not come on asking for help, she came on asking for someone to take this dog on otherwise it would be pts!
> 
> The OP already moved it on when it had the problems with its legs - because, and I quote
> and other comments in a similar vein. So exactly where do you get the impression that the OP would 'dearly love' to take him on. The impression from all her threads (not just this one) was that she wanted a problem free dog and anything else was too much bother.
> 
> She was offered help and suggestions - if you look at the first reply (which was mine) I stressed that she should get a behaviourist in before rehoming. She didn't want the 'bother' of doing that if you look at her reply.
> 
> The OP is insured with petplan (she mentions it on another thread) and they would cover the cost of a behaviourist. Regardless, a visit to the behaviourist would cost about £70 an hour. A small price to pay for doing the right thing.
> 
> Really? No one can say that until it is assessed and it would be irresponsible to make that assumption over the internet. I think you may be right, but there is a possibility that is not the case so it needs assessing. Not only can it ONLY be assessed by someone on the ground seeing the dog, but there are enough changes to this story and the inexperience and lack of knowledge of the OP make it impossible to know what the true picture is, so any assumptions about it being fine are based on the OP's opinion who doesn't have the experience to interpret what is actually happening.
> 
> That's a ridiculous claim to make. There are many reasons why dogs get dumped at rescue - mostly because owners don't want to bother with them any more. I've volunteered in rescue long enough to see this attitude time and time again.


ive been involved in these types for nearly 30 yrs,turned plenty around and placed them,stopped them being put to sleep,know for FACT by speaking with general public that many are to afraid to go to rescues because of the attitude of some so not a ridiculous claim,worked at rescues too,,at 32 weeks this dog can be worked with,not a bold statement,ive done it lots of times with mastiffs and danes with far worse issues than this,also i have spoken to the op in person as i find that things often come across different in written form,people get frustrated
so im not talking out of my arse,im talking from years of experience!!!
i leave it at that as its turning into a war zone


----------



## RAINYBOW

tiddlypup said:


> ive been involved in these types for nearly 30 yrs,turned plenty around and placed them,stopped them being put to sleep,know for FACT by speaking with general public that many are to afraid to go to rescues because of the attitude of some so not a ridiculous claim,worked at rescues too,,at 32 weeks this dog can be worked with,not a bold statement,ive done it lots of times with mastiffs and danes with far worse issues than this,also i have spoken to the op in person as i find that things often come across different in written form,people get frustrated
> so im not talking out of my arse,im talking from years of experience!!!
> i leave it at that as its turning into a war zone


I am just really pleased the OP is getting the help she needs from someone with knowledge.


----------



## lauren001

tiddlypup said:


> ive been involved in these types for nearly 30 yrs,turned plenty around and placed them,stopped them being put to sleep,know for FACT by speaking with general public that many are to afraid to go to rescues because of the attitude of some so not a ridiculous claim,worked at rescues too,,at 32 weeks this dog can be worked with,not a bold statement,ive done it lots of times with mastiffs and danes with far worse issues than this,also *i have spoken to the op in person* as i find that things often come across different in written form,people get frustrated
> so im not talking out of my arse,im talking from years of experience!!!
> i leave it at that as its turning into a war zone


Well done you!


----------



## sammykins

hawksport said:


> I must be misunderstanding something here


there was only one time when it involved food "*with my son*!" other times he would just jump at him for no reason.

He has still bitten 2 others when it involved food.

There are not any holes in what i am saying, read my original thread - thats what has happened nothing more nothing less! All that i have said that could make it look worse is that we are not sure what he could do next as is behaviour is unpredictable.


----------



## sammykins

Amy&Ted said:


> I think from reading the previous thread that it was the free 4 week insurance you get through Pet Plan when you buy a new pup. So obviously now the dog is not insured. I could be wrong though.


yes it was the free 4 week insurance, and when we took him to the vet during that time with his legs problems, the insurance would have been really high. And we wasnt even too sure whether we were keeping him as he was going to go back to the breeder, we were worried that he would have trouble walking etc as he got older and even when he was a pup, that our FIL wouldnt be able to pick him up etc if he needed to for whatever reason. Thats why we didnt want a dog with problems! As having a big dog would have been harder for him to carry about, in out to vets, garden etc etc

But luckily enough we had this rectified ourselves after extensive research on my behalf.

Im not sure what you lot are getting confused about. But just read what i have written on here, i have never changed my story to suit any of you.


----------



## Amy&Ted

sammykins said:


> yes it was the free 4 week insurance, and when we took him to the vet during that time with his legs problems, the insurance would have been really high. And we wasnt even too sure whether we were keeping him as he was going to go back to the breeder, we were worried that he would have trouble walking etc as he got older and even when he was a pup, that our FIL wouldnt be able to pick him up etc if he needed to for whatever reason. Thats why we didnt want a dog with problems! As having a big dog would have been harder for him to carry about, in out to vets, garden etc etc
> 
> But luckily enough we had this rectified ourselves after extensive research on my behalf.
> 
> Im not sure what you lot are getting confused about. But just read what i have written on here, i have never changed my story to suit any of you.


I think its the conflicting answers that different posters were receiving that have been confusing them. I'm just glad you have spoken to Tiddly and hope that this poor animal finally finds a family that deserve him.


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## felicitycp

There is always a reason why a dog acts as it does and it is your resposibility to investigate this. I have 2 DDB, 1 who is 12 stone and came from a VERY bad home and I have turned him round. It seems to me that when the going has got rough you want rid. I also have 2 Rotti's both had intermittent joint problems, as some big dogs do and I never consider getting rid of either of them. When you take on a dog it is for life. If you had a child and it bacame a problem would you get rid?

I felt sorry for you when I read your first post, now I feel bad for the dog who obviously needs a more caring owner who does'nt jump ship when problems happen.

The way you got the dog was all wrong your FIL wanted a dog because his wife died. It seems like no thought was put in to the dog you had.

DOGUE DE BORDEAUXS ARE NOT GUARD DOGS. GUARDS DOGS ARE MADE BY STUPID PEOPLE.


----------



## tiddlypup

DoubleTrouble said:


> At eight month believe it or not he will have about reached the height that he is going to be! OK!! he is still growing - but there will be very very little movement upwards.
> 
> What is his height to his withers would you say?? I'm guessing 23" ish???


no he wont,example my oscar,11 mths now,still growing in height,it slows down but they can keep going up to 18 mths,its the body weight thats the slower but thats what you want,they start to build up body wise from 2ish,i get lots of enquiries off folk worrying because they dont seem to be able to get good weight on their pup or its bum looks higher than its front,all normal in these big breeds, 
i think hes bloody gorgeous,he looks fantastic,well done in sorting his diet,colours typical from these crosses

also i dont think the op means anything bad by saying guard dogs,mastiffs were bred to guard,its up to us to curb the behaviour and yes it is idiots that encourage it


----------



## RAINYBOW

So has a foster/permanent home been found then ??


----------



## Guest

tiddlypup said:


> no he wont,example my oscar,11 mths now,still growing in height,it slows down but they can keep going up to 18 mths,its the body weight thats the slower but thats what you want,they start to build up body wise from 2ish,i get lots of enquiries off folk worrying because they dont seem to be able to get good weight on their pup or its bum looks higher than its front,all normal in these big breeds,
> i think hes bloody gorgeous,he looks fantastic,well done in sorting his diet,colours typical from these crosses
> 
> also i dont think the op means anything bad by saying guard dogs,mastiffs were bred to guard,its up to us to curb the behaviour and yes it is idiots that encourage it


Bums up! mine always look like that! Still hold firm on the height though! there won't be much upward movement after eigth/tenmonthish - maybe an inch of so but in this case nowhere near the four of so inches that his parents would carry! And I have seen lots of big breeds too! I ain't gonna sit and argue the fact with you though! the proof will be in the pudding - Show me a picture in twelve months time!

Good on you for taking him by the way! a yep! he's a great looking dog! sure we would all like to hear how he gets on!! And you know what!! I have a feeling he is going to be a dream!


----------



## tiddlypup

i havent got him here,ive said i would but im too faraway

if yours is bum high again it hasnt finished,raised enough of them and the crosses are really unpredictable growth wise


----------



## Guest

tiddlypup said:


> i havent got him here,ive said i would but im too faraway
> 
> if yours is bum high again it hasnt finished,raised enough of them and the crosses are really unpredictable growth wise


No mate! mine ain't bums up now, but they looked right funny at that age, like to long for there build so almost like sagging in the middle!

Some say that of the larger breeds that they will have reached three quarters of their height by the time they are nine month! As you say with a mixed breed it is harder to predict - but I do seriously think height wise that there will be much upward movement now - if you look at that pup it appears to be well proportioned - fdon't you think?

Anyway! shame you can't get it there to you! is there no one on the forum who could help with transport? Don't know which area the dog is nor where you are for that matter!

DT


----------



## tiddlypup

dogs in surrey im in stockport cheshire 
i have passed on some contacts nearer to the op,hopefully they may be able to help but if anyone could get him this way,well the offer still stands

its very hard to tell off pics,he doesnt look big boned but if its a byb the parents might not have been the best examples of their breeds


----------



## ninja

DoubleTrouble said:


> Anyway! shame you can't get it there to you! is there no one on the forum who could help with transport? Don't know which area the dog is nor where you are for that matter!
> 
> DT





tiddlypup said:


> dogs in surrey im in stockport cheshire
> i have passed on some contacts nearer to the op,hopefully they may be able to help but if anyone could get him this way,well the offer still stands


surely if the op thinks you are able to help the dog and are happy for you to have him then they should get the dog to you!
whether they pay for a animal taxi/ambulance or drive him to you themselves!!


----------



## lil muppet

i have to say im disgusted. why do people buy dogs and cats and other animals if they have no idea about how to look after them and train them?? it beggers belief that its so easy to buy a living creature so easily? I train horses that have been treated badly and what causes the problems is they are treated like humans not horses. I see the same with dogs too. What the hell did u expect the dog to do but turn aggressive. I dont care what breed the dog is, its got bugger all to do with the dog being aggressive at all. I have three dogs, 2 of which are rescue dogs. a boxer bitch a doby male and a border collie. all three have distinct personalities and traits that have been bred into them. yet all of them are trustworthy and loyal and safe. they have to be and as an owner its MY responsability to ensure they are safe around others as well. owning them is a full time job. i think that u dont seem to realise ur responsabilities at all. 

Every animal i have had put down i have been there. i had one of my horses put down last week and i stood next to her but hey im a true animal lover! ive had a german shepard put down through aggression caused by being owned by a numpty like urself. she was not trained as a pup nor trained as a youngster either. considering that my family have bred shepards for the forces and police for years i think im competant to say i know a bit about the breed which is another point i would like to make..every dog has traits and it is bred into them. 

At what point did u study the breed of dog u were buying??? i would say that the only thing that u wanted to know is would it be a big dog and thats it. what the hell were u thinking buying a huge dog that is not designed to be a family pet. neopolitan mastiffs are a one person dog and thats a fact. everybody who knows anything about dogs knows that. then u buy a ddb x neo and wonder why this dog is having issues? its not the dog that has problems because he is showing signs of bad handling thats all. its u and ur fil that has the problem and i pray u lot never get the urge to buy another dog again. stick to pet rocks.

Oh and for the record..i love my dogs but if one of them ever bit my children for no reason (dogs can all bite when provoked and reg nipped jake when jake tripped over and fell on reggies stiches after he had been snipped and to be honest i would nip too!) but if any of them ever bit so hard that it drew blood for no reason then i would shoot the damn thing myself and not palm it off on someone else but then my dogs are not pets but instead they are my life my protectors and valued members of the family! 

RANT OVER


----------



## RAINYBOW

ninja said:


> surely if the op thinks you are able to help the dog and are happy for you to have him then they should get the dog to you!
> whether they pay for a animal taxi/ambulance or drive him to you themselves!!


You would think so wouldnt you.


----------



## Mum2Alfie

Hi sammy. 

I know someone asked, but I dont think you answered...how old is your FIL? is he ok to walk? doesnt need an aid in walking? Everything ok with him? Not disabled at all? I take it his retired seeing as he is on his own for along time?

Has the dog gone yet? Not read all the thread I cant be bothered...heard it all before.


----------



## sammykins

Mum2Alfie said:


> Hi sammy.
> 
> I know someone asked, but I dont think you answered...how old is your FIL? is he ok to walk? doesnt need an aid in walking? Everything ok with him? Not disabled at all? I take it his retired seeing as he is on his own for along time?
> 
> Has the dog gone yet? Not read all the thread I cant be bothered...heard it all before.


He is 62, yes he walks, talks, eats, bends down to change the dogs bowls, takes him for little strolls to the park. And yes he is retired although does help out in his sons shop once a week. His neighbour will then see to the dog when he is out, and he has his nephew taking him for little walks.

And yes i have arranged with a wicked lady who specialises in this type of dog to take him on so i am just in the process of arranging transport.


----------



## sammykins

lil_muppet said:


> i all.
> 
> 
> At what point did u study the breed of dog u were buying?
> 
> I didnt study the breed at all, i didnt buy him.


----------



## RAINYBOW

sammykins said:


> He is 62, yes he walks, talks, eats, bends down to change the dogs bowls, takes him for little strolls to the park. And yes he is retired although does help out in his sons shop once a week. His neighbour will then see to the dog when he is out, and he has his nephew taking him for little walks.
> 
> And yes i have arranged with a wicked lady who specialises in this type of dog to take him on so i am just in the process of arranging transport.


Thats your "problem" solved then isn't it. Well done you :thumbup:


----------



## Amy&Ted

:thumbup: Finally the dog will have a home he deserves with the right kind of training and time spent.

Maybe your FIL should get a goldfish.


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## sammykins

yes thats right, Lucky Alfred! And lucky there is a person who has a very positive view of the dog, rather than most of you thinking he should be pts.

Im sure he will have a long and happy life now that he is in experienced hands and with someone who fullys understands this type of dog!

This has made my day a very happy one!


----------



## Amy&Ted

sammykins said:


> yes thats right, Lucky Alfred! And lucky there is a person who has a very positive view of the dog, rather than most of you thinking he should be pts.
> 
> Im sure he will have a long and happy life now that he is in experienced hands and with someone who fullys understands this type of dog!
> 
> This has made my day a very happy one!


Hopefully so :thumbup:


----------



## simplysardonic

I'm glad Alfred has gone to someone experienced in this type of dog & that he hasn't been PTS


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## sammykins

I wouldnt have allowed him to be put to sleep, even though my FIL mentioned it. But yes its great news


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## leashedForLife

sammykins said:


> yes thats right, Lucky Alfred! And lucky there is a person who has a very positive view of the dog,
> rather than most of you thinking he should be pts.


how to put this delicately, sammykins?  i have no idea, so will put it factually -

_it was not the *dog* that we viewed negatively - 
it was the spouse who BOUGHT the pup, underage from a BYB on a repeat cross-breeding, 
the spouse who gave the dog to the F-I-L, 
the spouse who *listed the dog as a give-away with a bite history - UNtrained and INtact - *
and the F-I-L who could not be bothered to hire a professional to help with the behavior issues, 
or even take the puppy to an obedience and manners class, back when he was 10 to 12-WO - 
**well before ** he reached 8-MO and major issues were no longer merely developing, but full-blown. _

so it was never The Dog - it was *the people involved* and a series of really bad decisions, 
all to the detriment of the puppy, who grew-into this post-pubertal UNtrained dog.

now that he has been RE-Homed intact, he will very-likely produce his first litter in about 2-mos; 
congratulations on forwarding the interests of companion dogs everywhere, 
- terry

PS - that's sarcasm,  for anyone who is wondering.


----------



## sammykins

leashedForLife said:


> how to put this delicately, sammykins?  i have no idea, so will put it factually -
> 
> _it was not the *dog* that we viewed negatively -
> it was the spouse who BOUGHT the pup, underage from a BYB on a repeat cross-breeding,
> the spouse who gave the dog to the F-I-L,
> the spouse who *listed the dog as a give-away with a bite history - UNtrained and INtact - *
> and the F-I-L who could not be bothered to hire a professional to help with the behavior issues,
> or even take the puppy to an obedience and manners class, back when he was 10 to 12-WO -
> **well before ** he reached 8-MO and major issues were no longer merely developing, but full-blown. _
> 
> so it was never The Dog - it was *the people involved* and a series of really bad decisions,
> all to the detriment of the puppy, who grew-into this post-pubertal UNtrained dog.
> 
> now that he has been RE-Homed intact, he will very-likely produce his first litter in about 2-mos; congratulations on forwarding the interests of companion dogs everywhere,
> - terry
> 
> PS - that's sarcasm,  for anyone who is wondering.


What a rescue is going to breed from him - i bloody well doubt it, she is actually getting him sorted down below. And theres nothing wrong that i have done in the making of this dog, Neo's especially can be unpredictable and are not too good with children, even with training they could still have their moments. Plus not too sure where the bad decisions were made, this is the only decision we have made at getting him rehomed and that is a very positive one.

I have actually done alot to help this dog in actual fact!


----------



## rocco33

> And theres nothing wrong that i have done in the making of this dog, Neo's especially can be unpredictable and are not too good with children, even with training they could still have their moments. Plus not too sure where the bad decisions were made, this is the only decision we have made at getting him rehomed and that is a very positive one.


'The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing'  



> i bloody well doubt it


Oh, and children read this forum - perhaps you could watch your language. As a childminder I would expect better.


----------



## Mum2Alfie

sammykins said:


> I didnt study the breed at all, i didnt buy him.


So who did? You said "we" brought it as a present? 



sammykins said:


> He is 62, yes he walks, talks, eats, bends down to change the dogs bowls, takes him for little strolls to the park. And yes he is retired although does help out in his sons shop once a week. His neighbour will then see to the dog when he is out, and he has his nephew taking him for little walks.
> 
> And yes i have arranged with a wicked lady who specialises in this type of dog to take him on so i am just in the process of arranging transport.


At what point did you think that a large bully type dog which is known to be a guard type to be a good dog for an old man? At what point did you think he was ok to have a puppy? Other people might be abit clued up with this but if he had gone to a rescue in the first place then they would have given him a more chilled, older dog that would have suited him better. Did you not think that really he should have been taken to puppy classes? All of these things would have made for a much better dog owner experience and that poor puppy would never have been in that position anyway! They always put out an advert at christmas saying "a dog is for life not just for christmas" I think it should be changed to be put out ALL the time and also add that breeds should be thoroughly looked into before getting to make sure they are the RIGHT dog for you!!! I hardly knew anything before I came on here, but I knew I had to look the breed up to make sure they are ok with children etc and to make sure they fitted in with us before I went out and got one!!!

Sad day! :sad:

My thoughts are with the pup and hope they can get him sorted out!


----------



## leashedForLife

sammykins said:


> What a rescue is going to breed from him... she is actually getting him sorted down below.


U did not say he was going to a 'rescue' - U said to 'a person knowledgeable about these breeds' - 
which CAN mean a thoughtful home where the dog will be desexed, or a dingbat who thinks he's lovely, 
and will breed him to anything with 4-legs and a vulva - or any sort of owner, in between the two.

had U gotten him desexed at 4 to 6-MO, *and taken him to a good basic manners class,* 
there is every reason to suppose he would not have ever developed the problem behaviors - 
RG, biting, intolerance of interference - which he did; all moot, now.

U could also have saved the 'rescue' a chunk of change by desexing him at Ur own co$t - 
is this rescue registered as a non-profit?

- terry


----------



## sammykins

Mum2Alfie said:


> So who did? You said "we" brought it as a present?
> 
> At what point did you think that a large bully type dog which is known to be a guard type to be a good dog for an old man? At what point did you think he was ok to have a puppy? Other people might be abit clued up with this but if he had gone to a rescue in the first place then they would have given him a more chilled, older dog that would have suited him better. Did you not think that really he should have been taken to puppy classes? All of these things would have made for a much better dog owner experience and that poor puppy would never have been in that position anyway! They always put out an advert at christmas saying "a dog is for life not just for christmas" I think it should be changed to be put out ALL the time and also add that breeds should be thoroughly looked into before getting to make sure they are the RIGHT dog for you!!! I hardly knew anything before I came on here, but I knew I had to look the breed up to make sure they are ok with children etc and to make sure they fitted in with us before I went out and got one!!!
> 
> Sad day! :sad:
> 
> My thoughts are with the pup and hope they can get him sorted out!


i think you need to research more into this thread, that will surely have all the answers you are looking for.


----------



## sammykins

leashedForLife said:


> U did not say he was going to a 'rescue' - U said to 'a person knowledgeable about these breeds' -
> which CAN mean a thoughtful home where the dog will be desexed, or a dingbat who thinks he's lovely,
> and will breed him to anything with 4-legs and a vulva - or any sort of owner, in between the two.
> 
> had U gotten him desexed at 4 to 6-MO, *and taken him to a good basic manners class,*
> there is every reason to suppose he would not have ever developed the problem behaviors -
> RG, biting, intolerance of interference - which he did; all moot, now.
> 
> U could also have saved the 'rescue' a chunk of change by desexing him at Ur own co$t -
> is this rescue registered as a non-profit?
> 
> - terry


You shouldnt get that type of dog neutured that young as it can disturb the growth plates, especially at the age your suggesting. And yes he still would of had this problem i reckon. I think its mainly to do with pecking order.

Yes and she is 'a person knowledgeable about these breeds' they are the only type of dogs she takes on. She will have the dog at her home, she most probably is a non-profit rescue. But she is willing to take him on! I really appreciate what she is doing for Alfred.


----------



## tamakin

I am getting very tired of this thread now, folks! While yes i do think a badly educated mistake was made which was then worsened by lack of dog knowhow, insufficient puppy care and perhaps laziness, i feel that all points have been made and now its just going around in circles. As such im going to ask it be closed. 

Fingers crossed for this lovely young boy in his new home.


----------



## leashedForLife

sammykins said:


> *bold added - *
> 
> You *shouldnt get that type of dog neutured that young* as it can disturb the growth plates, especially at the age your suggesting.


_gentle readers, 
i have pointed-out before that there are statistical studies of PRE-pubertal desex, which indicate there 
are no significant long-term bad results to due EARLY desex - *pediatric neuter -* at under-12-WO -- _ 
see this link for many articles on pediatric desex - 
Early Spay/neuter

_ ...let alone PUBERTAL desex, at 5 to 7-MO - which was the standard for over 50-years, done in Fs 
to prevent estrus, and in Ms to prevent them developing and practicing the full-blown repertoire 
of intact-M behaviors as adults - 
which include posturing at other Ms, flirting or mounting all Fs, marking indoors and out, humping, 
escaping to hunt for Fs, fighting + biting, AND resource-guarding - 
ALL associated statistically with being *a*] Male and *b*] Intact.

since U cannot change the gender of the dog, removing the testes is the sole remaining option, to prevent 
the practice of such intact-M-behaviors beginning around 5-MO and massively increasing in frequency 
and intensity after 7-MO and into 9-MO when testosterone *peaks - * after which final spike, it falls 
to adult-M levels.

so: M-pups enter puberty With F-pups around 4-MO when their pup-license is rescinded. 
M-pups are in full-blown puberty by 6-MO - as are Fs who may often have their first-estrus here. 
Ms UNLIKE Fs experience an increasing circulating blood-level of testosterone, from 5-MO on to 9-MO *when it peaks - * and is never so high in their lives, again - as it then falls to adult-M levels.

skipping that testosterone-peak is the simplest way of preventing full-blown, obnoxious intact-M behaviors - 
which once *learned and practiced* are not UN-learned; *marking indoors* is among the few that is often resolved, even post-9-MO or in adults, by later castration. _ 


sammykins said:


> *bold added - *
> 
> And yes *he still would of had this problem i reckon*. I think its *mainly to do with pecking order*.


_gentle readers, 
we have exhaustively discussed the well-researched and thoroughly established fact that domestic-dogs do not form fixed AKA linear hierarchies - and even if they did, social-hierarchies are Same-Species, not inter-species but intra-species. 
the dog supposedly 'putting themselves above U' is pure myth - and IMO, we should stop muddying relations with the canine-race, based on myths.  facts serve much better as the foundation of any relationship. _


sammykins said:


> *bold added - *
> ...she is 'a person knowledgeable about these breeds' they are the only type of dogs she takes on. She will have the dog at her home, *she most probably is a non-profit rescue.* But she is *willing to take him on! I really appreciate what she is doing* for Alfred.


_gentle readers, 
either a person IS a registered non-profit rescue, or they are not - there is no 'probably'.

being knowledgeable about X breed or type is no guarantor that they have the dog's best interests at heart - 
*backyard-breeders, dog-fighters, and other unsavory persons can be knowledgeable, too - *
and will Say What U Want To Hear, to get the dog in their possession. 
make no mistake - con-artists have an excellent line of patter. 
*before U allow a dog to leave Ur possession - if U do *nothing* else - please Desex.* 
M or F, old or young, it's the ONLY way to ensure that the dog cannot later be bred - accidentally or deliberately.

for the dogs, 
- terry

_


----------



## Aurelia

Not wishing to divert away from the thread and the reason for it, but I have just noticed your signature Sammykins:



> My family:
> 3 lovely boys
> 1 siamese cat - merlin
> 1 Abyssinian cat - neo
> *2 mini lop x wild bunnies*
> 2 Aylesbury ducks
> 12 tortoises
> 
> Many reptiles - chameleons, bearded dragons, ghekos
> 
> And we love them all


Dare I ask how you came to own the two wild rabbit crosses?


----------



## Ditsy42

OMG I cant believe Im reading this,(got 2 page 15 and despair), firstly I wouldnt call the person u handed cash 2 a breeder, secondly why on earth did you not do any research or homework on these 2 breeds, on their type temperament and what cross breeding implications could arise by buying a cross breed of this size in the first place, I would also say this type of breed is unsuitable for an older person with no prior experience of large breeds!

Why on earth didnt u go to rescue and get a more suitable dog for your dads lifestyle, dear oh dear. The statement below you made on page 2 just says it all to me .

anyway i appreciate all your comments and in future we will know not to buy a guard dog especially a cross breed, that is supposed to be good with children as with any dog you never know what your going to get and how they will react to any situation,

1.	Do research on chosen breed, think long and hard why and what you want from the breed, not all people are suitable to own certain types of breed
2.	Research, research, research!
3.	Choose a breeder wisely, speak to others who own their progeny, make sure they offer u help and advice throughout the dogs life and that u have a contract stating such 
4.	All dogs need training and socialisation, this is a must with any dog, but very important for large breeds as the public are very unforgiving, they laugh when little dogs misbehave, very different story when its a large breed
5.	Dogs need boundaries and often go through testing stages/periods, I would say at 9 months these r typical traits in any dog if pack leader is not established from an early age
6.	YOU are ultimately responsible 4 your dog, and is a refection on you as a so called owner
7.	Work on feeding regimes and toy possession from puppyhood to prevent such situations occurring in the first place

What gaules me about this post is you blame the dog, its the owners who have done wrong in this situation by not fully understanding the training needs and not being a strong enough leader, I took my boy at 8 months from rescue, he was similar in that he had had no socialisation nor training and was possessive over everything, sadly a left over and discarded commodity for the same reasons you give, owners couldnt b arsed 2 put in the work and effort needed to develop a well rounded dog with good manners, my boy is now 3 years old and Im pleased 2 say is a very well adjusted part of my family, you get out what you put in, it saddens me when I read these sorts of posts, this so easily could have been a statistic we read about in the newspaper because of your ignorance, you have seriously let this dog down!

I suggest you buy a hamster or a budgie, not fit 2 own a dog in my book


----------



## Spellweaver

leashedForLife said:


> how to put this delicately, sammykins?  i have no idea, so will put it factually -
> 
> _it was not the *dog* that we viewed negatively -
> it was the spouse who BOUGHT the pup, underage from a BYB on a repeat cross-breeding,
> the spouse who gave the dog to the F-I-L,
> the spouse who *listed the dog as a give-away with a bite history - UNtrained and INtact - *
> and the F-I-L who could not be bothered to hire a professional to help with the behavior issues,
> or even take the puppy to an obedience and manners class, back when he was 10 to 12-WO -
> **well before ** he reached 8-MO and major issues were no longer merely developing, but full-blown. _
> 
> so it was never The Dog - it was *the people involved* and a series of really bad decisions,
> all to the detriment of the puppy, who grew-into this post-pubertal UNtrained dog.
> 
> now that he has been RE-Homed intact, he will very-likely produce his first litter in about 2-mos;
> congratulations on forwarding the interests of companion dogs everywhere,
> - terry
> 
> PS - that's sarcasm,  for anyone who is wondering.


It's not very often we agree Terry, but we agree on this - except for the early neutering part.



sammykins said:


> You shouldnt get that type of dog neutured that young as it can disturb the growth plates, especially at the age your suggesting. And yes he still would of had this problem i reckon. I think its mainly to do with pecking order.
> .





leashedForLife said:


> _gentle readers,
> i have pointed-out before that there are statistical studies of PRE-pubertal desex, which indicate there
> are no significant long-term bad results to due EARLY desex - ]_




And as I have pointed out before Terry - you are entitled to your opinion but there is equally as much evidence proving the dangers of early neutering. Not going to argue this with you again cos there is a whole thread of us going back and forth over this. However, much as it pains me to write this, Sammykins is actually right in not getting the dog neutered before sexual maturity, especially with such a large dog.

This does not mean that I in any way whatsoever agree with what the OP and her family have done to this dog.

ETA - this is the thread mentioned above about the dangers of early neutering for anyone interested:

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/104601-do-dogs-grow-more-if-they-neutered.html


----------



## sammykins

Aurelia said:


> Not wishing to divert away from the thread and the reason for it, but I have just noticed your signature Sammykins:
> 
> Dare I ask how you came to own the two wild rabbit crosses?


i rescued them from a local rescue place, apparently the mum had escaped and had sex with a wild rabbit. So i took them on. They are very friendly bunnies. I know i thought the story was a bit mad too!


----------



## sammykins

Ditsy42 said:


> OMG I cant believe Im reading this,(got 2 page 15 and despair), firstly I wouldnt call the person u handed cash 2 a breeder, secondly why on earth did you not do any research or homework on these 2 breeds, on their type temperament and what cross breeding implications could arise by buying a cross breed of this size in the first place, I would also say this type of breed is unsuitable for an older person with no prior experience of large breeds!
> 
> Why on earth didnt u go to rescue and get a more suitable dog for your dads lifestyle, dear oh dear. The statement below you made on page 2 just says it all to me .
> 
> anyway i appreciate all your comments and in future we will know not to buy a guard dog especially a cross breed, that is supposed to be good with children as with any dog you never know what your going to get and how they will react to any situation,
> 
> 1.	Do research on chosen breed, think long and hard why and what you want from the breed, not all people are suitable to own certain types of breed
> 2.	Research, research, research!
> 3.	Choose a breeder wisely, speak to others who own their progeny, make sure they offer u help and advice throughout the dogs life and that u have a contract stating such
> 4.	All dogs need training and socialisation, this is a must with any dog, but very important for large breeds as the public are very unforgiving, they laugh when little dogs misbehave, very different story when its a large breed
> 5.	Dogs need boundaries and often go through testing stages/periods, I would say at 9 months these r typical traits in any dog if pack leader is not established from an early age
> 6.	YOU are ultimately responsible 4 your dog, and is a refection on you as a so called owner
> 7.	Work on feeding regimes and toy possession from puppyhood to prevent such situations occurring in the first place
> 
> What gaules me about this post is you blame the dog, its the owners who have done wrong in this situation by not fully understanding the training needs and not being a strong enough leader, I took my boy at 8 months from rescue, he was similar in that he had had no socialisation nor training and was possessive over everything, sadly a left over and discarded commodity for the same reasons you give, owners couldnt b arsed 2 put in the work and effort needed to develop a well rounded dog with good manners, my boy is now 3 years old and Im pleased 2 say is a very well adjusted part of my family, you get out what you put in, it saddens me when I read these sorts of posts, this so easily could have been a statistic we read about in the newspaper because of your ignorance, you have seriously let this dog down!
> 
> I suggest you buy a hamster or a budgie, not fit 2 own a dog in my book


thanks, as i said before many a times, had you of read the whole 30 or so pages, i WAS looking at a rescue dog that would suit an older person and that was good with children, but my oh decided to go out without even telling me and got the dog. I if you must know am very very good with animals and i have quite a few that are kept in lovely clean enclosures etc, I always research into animals that i get thanks, and now i actually buy and sell tortoises from a reptile warehouse (had to even get a pet shop licence, had animal welfare officer over too and they were overly impressed with the way i keep my animals!) i do this to give them a better start in life to educate people into looking after them properly. As they would normally go to pet shops and they are very bad at giving advice for tortoises.

Unfortunatly i feel this situation is out of my hands as i cannot possibly take a dog on with childminding (the parents of the children i care for were very worried when i had the puppy here) and people would rather find another childminder if you have dogs. So with this in mind and with all my other animals, tortoises, ducks etc, a dog is definatley not suited in my home, so thats why i cant take him on myself.

I do agree with all of you though and my OH should have done more research and my fil should of got some type of training etc, but as the dog has recently bitten my fil is sooooo worried he doesnt want him. I do feel sad for Alfred, but i know he would be better off with a home more experienced in his type of breed, and im so lucky to have found a lovely lady who is willing to take him on.

Must i add i dont recall ever blaming the dog, i have said he is unpredictable but this is built in him i think as he is crossed with such breeds.


----------



## tiddlypup

leashedForLife said:


> U did not say he was going to a 'rescue' - U said to 'a person knowledgeable about these breeds' -
> which CAN mean a thoughtful home where the dog will be desexed, or a dingbat who thinks he's lovely,
> and will breed him to anything with 4-legs and a vulva - or any sort of owner, in between the two.
> 
> had U gotten him desexed at 4 to 6-MO, *and taken him to a good basic manners class,*
> there is every reason to suppose he would not have ever developed the problem behaviors -
> RG, biting, intolerance of interference - which he did; all moot, now.
> 
> U could also have saved the 'rescue' a chunk of change by desexing him at Ur own co$t -
> is this rescue registered as a non-profit?
> 
> - terry


sammy is trying to get him to me,he most certainley will NOT be used for breeding,he will be neutered as soon as,as being registered as non profit ffs i pay everything out of my own pocket,i do this for love of these dogs,i dont sell them on,i find them loving experienced homes,i have lots of good contacts in the large breed rescues,if the new owner wishes to give a donation i usually ask it to be made to one of the rescues,they help me find homes with new owners that have been homechecked,i never ask for a penny!!!!! money is not the issue with me thankyou very much,i never have any left at the end of each month but everyones fed,healthy and happy,thats whats important and yes they get vet treatment if needed


----------



## Lyceum

I haven't actually read all the thread, because it made me so angry, but had to say something.



sammykins said:


> You lot really are a cheery bunch!


We're a cheeky bunch?

Excuse me? You post on an animal forum, stating you have an aggressive dog, who has bitten, but hey, you can't be bothered to train him, or get a behaviourist it, or generally do anything to sort the problem dog YOU bought, it's too much hassle, you don't have the time, so instead you'd like to get rid, but hay people, a pet is for life.....but not this pet, just the nice ones.

How exactly did you think we'd react? Did you think we'd go 'Oh, that's perfectly understandable that you're too lazy to train your dangerous dog, don't bother putting effort in, just pass the buck, totally fine that you don't want him to bite you or your children, but are absolutely fine with passing him on and letting someone else take the chance of him biting them, what a great idea, have a pat on the back'

But it's not your dog, so it's not your decision, but here you are sorting out the dumping of said pet. You know what I'd do if one of my family members did this? I'd slap some sense into them and tell them not a chance I'd be a part of them passing the buck, get the dog sorted and take responsibility for your own problems.



sammykins said:


> Just goes to show there are kind people in the world willing to help, thank f*uck they are not all like you!


Yes, there is, but don't count yourself among them, you couldn't even be bothered training your dog, in your own words you wanted to get rid.

You're perfectly entitled to sit there and attempt to justify the fact that you're passing the buck and not taking responsibility, but that's all it is, an attempt at justification. And you call us cheeky because we won't help you with that justification.

I genuinely hope the dog ends up with someone who is both capable and willing to take responsibility for it, and having read towards the end of the thread, that seems to be happening. Thank god.

I also genuinely hope neither you or your FIL ever so much as consider getting another pet. You don't deserve one. It's irresponsible owners like you that give pet owners a bad name. Perhaps if you'd spent, or your FIL had spent as much time training the dog as you've spent resorting to immature personal insults in this thread, you'd not have to get rid of your dog.


----------



## momentofmadness

I wish someone would close this thread... It just seems to be winding people up.


----------



## sammykins

Originally Posted by sammykins 
You lot really are a cheery bunch! 

We're a cheeky bunch? blah blah

I didnt say you lot were cheeky, i said cheery!

And i will continue to get whatever pet i want thanks, i dont go out and buy a pet without looking into the care of an animal and i certainly wouldnt take one on if i knew i couldnt look after it properly.

Anyway im glad i started this thread there was only one reason i did so and that was to find a home for Alfred, shame i had to read alot of insults in the process, but my mission has been accomplished.


----------



## Lyceum

sammykins said:


> And i will continue to get whatever pet i want thanks, i dont go out and buy a pet without looking into the care of an animal and i certainly wouldnt take one on if i knew i couldnt look after it properly.


That's exactly what happened with this dog. It was bought with no though by people who couldn't look after it properly. Hence this situation. Oh sorry, not couldn't look after it properly, just couldn't be bothered.


----------



## Ditsy42

sammykins said:


> thanks, as i said before many a times, had you of read the whole 30 or so pages, i WAS looking at a rescue dog that would suit an older person and that was good with children, but my oh decided to go out without even telling me and got the dog. I if you must know am very very good with animals and i have quite a few that are kept in lovely clean enclosures etc, I always research into animals that i get thanks, and now i actually buy and sell tortoises from a reptile warehouse (had to even get a pet shop licence, had animal welfare officer over too and they were overly impressed with the way i keep my animals!) i do this to give them a better start in life to educate people into looking after them properly. As they would normally go to pet shops and they are very bad at giving advice for tortoises.
> 
> Unfortunatly i feel this situation is out of my hands as i cannot possibly take a dog on with childminding (the parents of the children i care for were very worried when i had the puppy here) and people would rather find another childminder if you have dogs. So with this in mind and with all my other animals, tortoises, ducks etc, a dog is definatley not suited in my home, so thats why i cant take him on myself.
> 
> I do agree with all of you though and my OH should have done more research and my fil should of got some type of training etc, but as the dog has recently bitten my fil is sooooo worried he doesnt want him. I do feel sad for Alfred, but i know he would be better off with a home more experienced in his type of breed, and im so lucky to have found a lovely lady who is willing to take him on.
> 
> Must i add i dont recall ever blaming the dog, i have said he is unpredictable but this is built in him i think as he is crossed with such breeds.


TBH I lost the bloody will 2 live at 15 pages, but hey you r a responsible tortoise seller with approval from welfare, that fills me with confidence, well my local puppy farmer has the same credentials from them, so means sod all 2 me!! By not taken responsibility for the dog and his unchecked behavior you r blaming him and his cross breed status, but hey thankfully a really nice person in rescue has come along 2 clean up ya mess, (hats off 2 this lovely person), you have been lucky, as rescues r full 2 bursting of similar cases and often dont have the room

I really hope Alfred finds the owners he deserves, people who fully understand his needs. You say you do ya research and educate owners on tortoises, well maybe you should pass some of that knowledge onto ya OH 4 all animals, sounds like he needs a reality check!!


----------



## Guest

To Sammykins
Well I have come up with a solution! I have found the perfect pet for your FIL!! Had a good clear out earlier BUT it is essential that these precious pets got to a good home!
2 x Rubber Ducks - They, don't bite and are very low maintenance!
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Reckon you can cope!


----------



## deb53

DoubleTrouble said:


> To Sammykins
> Well I have come up with a solution! I have found the perfect pet for your FIL!! Had a good clear out earlier BUT it is essential that these precious pets got to a good home!
> 2 x Rubber Ducks - They, don't bite and are very low maintenance!
> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> Reckon you can cope!


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: And don't need training :thumbup:

Just 1 more question Sammykins......

........Do you and your Hubby not talk and discuss things??

.......Do each of you just go out and return with something not discussed, when something is going to affect all your family and the Children you look after?

Seems real strange that you and your FIL had absolutly no incline your Hubby was going out to buy this type of cross from a BYB and just turned up with him.


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## sammykins

deb53 said:


> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: And don't need training :thumbup:
> 
> Just 1 more question Sammykins......
> 
> ........Do you and your Hubby not talk and discuss things??
> 
> .......Do each of you just go out and return with something not discussed, when something is going to affect all your family and the Children you look after?
> 
> Seems real strange that you and your FIL had absolutly no incline your Hubby was going out to buy this type of cross from a BYB and just turned up with him.


FIL wanted a dog, We had a discussion with him for the type of dog he wanted,, i therefore looked into getting a large rescue dog, as thats what he wanted. My OH was doing some research at different types of dogs to see if they were good with children. He then saw an advert and thought he would go and get this particular dog (i didnt know what type he was getting as he looked at quite a few adverts, i was still looking at rescue dogs) i think he wanted to surprise me, and yep i got a surprise when i saw a photo of hes parents!!, My FIL was happy with the dog as he wanted a large dog. But the type of dog wasnt a problem, we can cope with him being large, but my FIL cant cope with him being unpredictable. And thats it and now i think with him being so big AND unpredictable its not quite a good mix.


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## rocco33

> FIL wanted a dog, We had a discussion with him for the type of dog he wanted,, i therefore looked into getting a large rescue dog, as thats what he wanted. My OH was doing some research at different types of dogs to see if they were good with children. He then saw an advert and thought he would go and get this particular dog (i didnt know what type he was getting as he looked at quite a few adverts, i was still looking at rescue dogs) i think he wanted to surprise me, and yep i got a surprise when i saw a photo of hes parents!!, My FIL was happy with the dog as he wanted a large dog. But the type of dog wasnt a problem, we can cope with him being large, but my FIL cant cope with him being unpredictable. And thats it and now i think with him being so big AND unpredictable its not quite a good mix.


OK, Sammykins.... you've passed the catalogue of errors in getting this pup onto your OH and FIL .......... I think we get the picture 

You and your family have created a dog with problems and not been prepared to do anything about it other than pass it on to someone else. But worse still, you seem unable to comprehend your responsibility (and that of your family) in this fiasco, and that IMO is unforgivable and irresponsible. You constantly justify yourself or pass the buck that it is someone else's fault and you also blame the dog. You were given a blank canvas with a puppy and screwed the pup up. Someone else now has to pick up the pieces . That is the bottom line. That you cannot see that is incomprehensible to me, and it is pathetic that you try to lay the blame on the dog and others and that is what reflects on you so very badly, not the fact that you have given the pup up.


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## Lyceum

rocco33 said:


> OK, Sammykins.... you've passed the catalogue of errors in getting this pup onto your OH and FIL .......... I think we get the picture
> 
> You and your family have created a dog with problems and not been prepared to do anything about it other than pass it on to someone else. But worse still, you seem unable to comprehend your responsibility (and that of your family) in this fiasco, and that IMO is unforgivable and irresponsible. You constantly justify yourself or pass the buck that it is someone else's fault and you also blame the dog. You were given a blank canvas with a puppy and screwed the pup up. Someone else now has to pick up the pieces . That is the bottom line. That you cannot see that is incomprehensible to me, and it is pathetic that you try to lay the blame on the dog and others and that is what reflects on you so very badly, not the fact that you have given the pup up.


No, clearly it's the dogs fault .

Pups should come trained, you know, like kids do. They should be lovely and soft, house trained, totally and utterly predictable, great with everyone and everything they meet and generally perfect. Because it's a lot of work training a pup, so why would you bother? You can always just fob it off to someone else once you've decided it's not the perfect pet (not that your previous lack of effort will be anything to do with this, it's everyone else's fault you see). Screw this effort malarkey. You can just get rid.

But whatever you do, remember a pet is for life.


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## Zayna

its such a throwaway society we live in now, it's so sad.

I do think most of the blame lays with FIL, if he wanted a dog he should have been prepared to deal with whatever problems came with it. Can i ask had he prevously owned a dog or was he a first time dog owner?
I can imagine OP must be in a very difficult position trying to do what she thinks best for the dog and keeping the FIL happy at the same time.


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## RAINYBOW

:confused1:


Zayna said:


> its such a throwaway society we live in now, it's so sad.
> 
> I do think most of the blame lays with FIL, if he wanted a dog he should have been prepared to deal with whatever problems came with it. Can i ask had he prevously owned a dog or was he a first time dog owner?
> I can imagine OP must be in a very difficult position trying to do what she thinks best for the dog and keeping the FIL happy at the same time.


Thats where it all gets a bit confusing if you look at previous threads not really sure who the dog was bought for


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## rocco33

> Thats where it all gets a bit confusing if you look at previous threads not really sure who the dog was bought for


In a previous thread the puppy was the OP's then it developed leg problems so they were going to return to breeder but the FIL said he wanted it. The OP then claims it was bought for the FIL but just stayed with them for a month for training  Either way it was wrong - even if the latter was the truth, you don't buy a pup for someone else, keep it for a while (under the guise of training it) and then move it on.... it takes a while for a pup to settle into a new home and routine. To uproot it so soon is bound to cause problems.
There is nothing in both the getting of the pup and it's care afterwards (whoever it belonged to/stayed with) that will have helped this poor pup.


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## tiddlypup

this is just going round in circles now,all have differing opinions,none of which will help alfred,hes a place here waiting,lets leave it now


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## Spellweaver

tiddlypup said:


> this is just going round in circles now,all have differing opinions,none of which will help alfred,hes a place here waiting,lets leave it now


Will you update us on Alfred's training and progress hun? I sort of feel I know him now and would be really interested to see him develop into a lovely adult dog.


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## Snoringbear

Must be the longest thread I've seen. A few points though.

The "breeder" is a moron for crossing these two breeds, especially as a repeat mating. They are BYB's who are only in it for the money with no consideration for the breeds.

The purchasers are just as idiotic, firstly for supporting the "breeder's" practices by purchasing the dog and assuming that a cross between two giant breeds with a fighting/guarding history are suitable for a 62 year old man. 

The lack of responsibilty from the purchasers shocks me. All they have done is palm the dog off with a few pathetic excuses and can't even accept their failings. They should never own a dog again. I bet they haven't even given a donation for the dog. 

I just can't stand to see cretins like this ruining my breed.


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## tashi

Thread now closed as pup has found a place :thumbup:


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