# 20 week old puppy died!!!!!



## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

I am absolutely heartbroken like I can't stop crying and I feel so helpless and numb but in so much pain at the same time. 
We had an absolutely beautiful german shepherd puppy and he was almost 9 weeks old when we got him. He was fine, then a few weeks in he started getting diarrhoea. Not uncontrollable just sloppy when he did go so we took him straight to the vets. They gave him an injection from what I remember and advised to encourage fluids and encourage plenty of fresh chicken and rice. He improved. Whole time he was his normal excitable, tail wagging self. No signs of actually being unwell. Couple of weeks passed and it happened again! We are so careful with our pets. Not one of them has access to anything they shouldn't eat and with the dog we took him out on a leash on the garden because it's not very well enclosed and is rented so we were biding time until we could buy him a house with a big garden. And we have a park right next to us so as soon as he was allowed out we took him straight on the park on a long line lead every day. My point is he has never been left to eat anything outside he shouldn't either. They tested his poo and it came back with capillobacter so erythromycin was started and the metronidazole was stopped. He took them with no problem. Diarrhoea stopped. More samples and no more campilobacter after finishing course. Still continued to be ordinary tail wagging and happy puppy. Then the past week it has been on and off with sloppy bits of poo. Not diarrhoea just like a normal poo, then walking off as though he is done and then squatting and doing a sloppier little one. So called he vets numerous times and they said he will just have an irritated bowel from the campilobacter history. To give smaller and more regular meals and to keep a diary of how he is going. 
Yesterday he did a formed poo in the kitchen and ate it (he was pretty well house trained so that was odd and you could tell it was formed because of the marks left on the hard floor) we literally left him for 30 minutes in the kitchen and we were in the house and he did that. He then jumped up on the settee in front of us and vomited it everywhere. He seemed a bit shaken up but we figured if you are poo you are likely to vomit it back. 
He vomited a few more times and then he stopped. He was drinking plenty and eating little bits of boiled chicken so I figured he was settling back down and intended to ring the vet for advice anyway. He then whimpered to go outside so I took him out and he passed water from him bowels. Just brown water. I rang the vets straight away and drove him across to the 24/7 vets, she said he wasn't dehydrated at all, no signs of infection but she wanted to keep him in to do bloods and any other tests that were needed, she said she would put up IV antibiotics and some fluids just to be safe. We kissed him goodbye and he was running around wagging his tail and he then stopped and just looked at us. Like really really looked at us. Each in turn like he was studying our faces. I thought it was weird at the time but i thought he was just confused and trying to read us. He then left with no hesitation wih the vet and she came back and reassured us. 
We left.
At about 1:30am we got a phone call from the vet she sounded like she had been crying. She said she had tried to resuscitate him and it hadn't worked. We didn't understand and we were horrified and panicking and she said for us to come here right away. We got there and she explained that he was absolutely fine, only issue in his bloods was his potassium was a little low but not dangerously low so she was getting ready to add some potassium to his drip to top it back up. He stood up, had liquid diarrhoea and then just collapsed. She said she worked on him for ages, her and the nurses. They gave him adrenaline and intubated him and everything and nothing would work. She said she even checked all the antibiotics and the drop in the drug book to check if any rare occurrence of this had been reported that she somehow didn't know about despite using it all of the time and there was nothing. She said they worked on him for so long and he would not come back. She was heartbroken.

I just don't know what to do. I thought seeing him would help me accept it but I can't accept it. I am so numb and in so much pain at the same time and my OH can't stop crying either. 

I'm going to ring the kennel club later to ask for advice because he was from a breeder. I don't mean I want my money back... I just mean like does anyone need to know other than the breeder? There were 8 puppies! What if they all have the same issue??? 

I'm just completely unable to express how I feel. I can't believe he has gone. We have a house full of puppy toys and he has beds everywhere and a massive crate and a paddling pool outside and he was growing into an absolutely beautiful dog, so loving and he was almost completely over his nipping stage. We took him to puppy classes and had him well trained with his commands. I just feel like we love him so much and he's just gone... Just like that.

The vet said she was so glad we brought him in because he would have done it anyway and it would have been in our kitchen while we were asleep and we would have found him the next day and no one would have been able to even try to save him. At least we know they worked on him and tried really hard. 
She said she only heard of one other case like this. A male nurse had a Yorkshire terrier brought in and it had some bowel issues but nothing severe and it was young like him. All active and tail wagging like he was and they admitted it to do the same thing and before they could even do anything it just collapsed down dead.

I hurt so much. I lost my african pygmy hedgehog to an oral tumour less than a week ago and my 2 year old cat is having to have investigations into her kidneys because her bloods showed elevated creatinine. I feel so helpless.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Oh, Nicola - I don't know what to say. This is dreadful - so heartbreaking. There really are no words. Your poor puppy.

I can only imagine how you must be feeling, especially losing him so cruelly after your previous recent bereavement, and while you are worried about your cat.

You did everything you could for him. Sometimes no matter what is done, we will lose the one we love, and that in itself makes is feel helpless and at the whim of fate. I think that you are right to contact the breeders to them know what has happened, particularly because the cause seems to be a mystery - it may or may not be a heritable condition. The not knowing is destructive. Your mind must be full of "what did we miss?" and "what if we had . . .?", and it sounds as though your vet (who sounds a very good vet) feels the same way.

In practical terms, I would sterilise EVERYTHING - beds, toys etc - and not even think of offering a home to another animal until you have managed to get out of the house you are in, just in case there is a source of infection still there. (Please excuse me if I am suggesting out of turn that you may get another dog - I would give yourself time, no matter what your present feelings. Of course you can't replace him and I'm not suggesting that you might think you can, but some people cope with loss by filling that gaping hole. Others feel that they need a lot of time. There is no right or wrong way, only what is right for yourself.)

I will hold you and your beautiful pup in my heart and prayers.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Oh I'm so so sorry to read this. No wonder you are devastated. Try and take comfort in knowing he wasn't alone and he didn't suffer. He was happy and he knew how much he was loved in his short little life.
Take care xo


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Such an awful thing to happen - so sorry for your loss.


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## Cerijoanne (Jun 28, 2015)

I'm so so sorry for you  . Sounds like all your animals have a great life with you  I hope you get the answers you deserve very soon. I would definatly contact the kennel club, he seemed quite younge to have from a reputable breeder. Usually they keep them until they are at least 12 weeks old I should amagine. Deepest sympathy to you and your pup. Stay strong kindest regards Ceri xxx


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Thank you everyone this really means so much to me. I feel like the world is being so cruel to me and I just don't know what I have done to deserve this. I love all my animals so much and I just can't believe everything is happening at once. Think I really am going to have to go and see my doctor. I am hurting so much and I just feel like I can't contain it. My oh is asleep bless him. He is just as heartbroken so I'm seeing how long I can let him sleep and ringing work for us both


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Cerijoanne said:


> I'm so so sorry for you  . Sounds like all your animals have a great life with you  I hope you get the answers you deserve very soon. I would definatly contact the kennel club, he seemed quite younge to have from a reputable breeder. Usually they keep them until they are at least 12 weeks old I should amagine. Deepest sympathy to you and your pup. Stay strong kindest regards Ceri xxx


I may be wrong, but I think eight/nine weeks is standard for parting with puppies - kittens aren't homed until 12 weeks.


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

Losing any pet is tough, and it's hard enough when they're elderly or have a long term terminal illness, but to lose a pup so suddenly must be terrible. Give yourself time to get over your loss. You may find this useful http://www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-bereavement-support

On a practical note, I'd contact the breeder and make them aware.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> Thank you everyone this really means so much to me. I feel like the world is being so cruel to me and I just don't know what I have done to deserve this. I love all my animals so much and I just can't believe everything is happening at once. Think I really am going to have to go and see my doctor. I am hurting so much and I just feel like I can't contain it. My oh is asleep bless him. He is just as heartbroken so I'm seeing how long I can let him sleep and ringing work for us both


You have done nothing to deserve this. Sometimes things just happen, and it is truly awful, but if you try to look for a reason (and that is a very human reaction) you will drive yourself mad.

You are in deep grief at the moment. I think you are very wise not to go to work if you can possibly take some time off. You will be distraught and angry and will probably feel as though you are actually going mad at some stage. Try to be kind to yourself and do what you need for you (and your OH). Let everything else go hang.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

So sorry to hear about your little puppy, it's hard enough when they're old and you know it's coming!


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

Cerijoanne said:


> he seemed quite younge to have from a reputable breeder. Usually they keep them until they are at least 12 weeks old


No, eight weeks is the optimum period to re-home a puppy ..between 7 to 9 weeks is acceptable... so the pup was spot on for leaving mum.

I am so sorry for your loss. I can understand how devastated you are. Yes, let the breeder know but for your part just give yourself time to grieve. 

J


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I'm so very sorry for your loss, what a terrible thing for all of you to experience. Is the vet doing any tests to try to discover the cause of your puppy's death? I would definitely let the breeder know when you feel up to it so that they can contact the other puppy owners just to make sure they are OK. I agree with lostbear take time off to grieve as this will knock you for six while you come to terms with it.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

So sorry for your loss, hope you get some answers soon. I don't think the breeder did anything wrong, 8 weeks is normal for puppies to leave mum, 13 weeks ( 1 week after their second vacc) is normal for kittens. But let his breeder know anyway, in case there are other cases in his litter mates - if he's a one off it may just be one of those horrible things, but if several puppies are affected she may need to look at her breeding lines or kennel hygiene - she can't know unless you tell her, but make it clear you are not laying blame - after all, he was under the care of your own vet who thought it nothing serious, and was a happy, well socialised puppy who loved people. The only thing I can think is if he got his Campylobacter infection from raw feeding, but not many breeders do this, just adult dog owners. I have often fed raw to my dogs as a part of their diet, but one got constipation recently from too much bone ( aggravated by arthritis at the base of his spine narrowing his colon so less room for poo to come out of). When discussing raw feeding my vet said he saw a lot of chronic campylobacter infections in dogs fed things like raw chicken wings, and would generally advise against it - other dog owners on here will tell you their dogs have never been better when fed raw, and I must admit mine always put on great condition when they've had some, especially my GSD who is a fussy feeder. If he came with insurance when you got him and you kept it up you should be able to claim for both his treatment and his purchase price - probably the last thing on your mind at the moment, but will help with finances when you feel ready for another puppy. Have you thought about pet cremation or pet burial? There are some lovely places you can bury your beloved pet and have a tree planted over them to become part of a beautiful woodland. So sorry for your loss, he was a lucky pup to be so loved in his short life.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> I am absolutely heartbroken like I can't stop crying and I feel so helpless and numb but in so much pain at the same time.
> 
> I just don't know what to do. I thought seeing him would help me accept it but I can't accept it. I am so numb and in so much pain at the same time and my OH can't stop crying either.
> 
> ...


I feel very sorry for you, to lose a pet so suddenly is heartbreaking.

I am not sure why you believe there is a need to contact the kennel club and have not mentioned contacting the breeder? Have you told the breeder what happened? I am sure if they were reputable breeders they would want to know.

It sounds as though you do not like or trust the breeders.

Have you asked for a post mortem to determine the cause of the sudden death?

That way you would know if it was something that your dog contracted whilst in your care or if it was congenital.

If you are insured you should get your purchase money back in the event of death in any case.

You must be feeling really rotten now and it is always harder when you do not know the cause of death.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Cerijoanne said:


> I'm so so sorry for you  . Sounds like all your animals have a great life with you  I hope you get the answers you deserve very soon. I would definatly contact the kennel club, he seemed quite younge to have from a reputable breeder. Usually they keep them until they are at least 12 weeks old I should amagine. Deepest sympathy to you and your pup. Stay strong kindest regards Ceri xxx


 I am not sure where you get your information from but you imagine wrong.

Most breeders of most breeds do NOT keep puppies until they are at least 12 weeks old. Most go between 7 - 8 weeks, again depending on the breed, breeder and new owner.


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## branwen (Nov 27, 2013)

So sorry for your loss..


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Little P said:


> Losing any pet is tough, and it's hard enough when they're elderly or have a long term terminal illness, but to lose a pup so suddenly must be terrible. Give yourself time to get over your loss. You may find this useful http://www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-bereavement-support
> 
> On a practical note, I'd contact the breeder and make them aware.


I'm going to contact them today and the vet said I need to contact the kennel club too... I need to contact them about his insurance anyway but I need to make them aware of the situation as well


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Catharinem said:


> So sorry for your loss, hope you get some answers soon. I don't think the breeder did anything wrong, 8 weeks is normal for puppies to leave mum, 13 weeks ( 1 week after their second vacc) is normal for kittens. But let his breeder know anyway, in case there are other cases in his litter mates - if he's a one off it may just be one of those horrible things, but if several puppies are affected she may need to look at her breeding lines or kennel hygiene - she can't know unless you tell her, but make it clear you are not laying blame - after all, he was under the care of your own vet who thought it nothing serious, and was a happy, well socialised puppy who loved people. The only thing I can think is if he got his Campylobacter infection from raw feeding, but not many breeders do this, just adult dog owners. I have often fed raw to my dogs as a part of their diet, but one got constipation recently from too much bone ( aggravated by arthritis at the base of his spine narrowing his colon so less room for poo to come out of). When discussing raw feeding my vet said he saw a lot of chronic campylobacter infections in dogs fed things like raw chicken wings, and would generally advise against it - other dog owners on here will tell you their dogs have never been better when fed raw, and I must admit mine always put on great condition when they've had some, especially my GSD who is a fussy feeder. If he came with insurance when you got him and you kept it up you should be able to claim for both his treatment and his purchase price - probably the last thing on your mind at the moment, but will help with finances when you feel ready for another puppy. Have you thought about pet cremation or pet burial? There are some lovely places you can bury your beloved pet and have a tree planted over them to become part of a beautiful woodland. So sorry for your loss, he was a lucky pup to be so loved in his short life.


 I've spoken to my vet receptionist and she is sorting out his insurance for me. She's lovely and I just cried down the phone to her. We are having him cremated and we have decided on the scatter container so we can put him in the park next to our house and in my parents and my OHs parents gardens where he has played. We don't want to put him in our garden because as I said before it is rented and is rather know he is in gardens I will visit often. The breeder told me before that she gave the puppies some raw mince meat because that's what her vet recommended as a healthy treat for them. I've given him cooked mince meat and cooked chicken. The campylobacter was confirmed to have gone but I think that was part of the issue like his bowel was so irritated from that and then I genuinely do think something congenital was going on for him to have just collapsed like that... It was so sudden he was so happy and healthy


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> I feel very sorry for you, to lose a pet so suddenly is heartbreaking.
> 
> I am not sure why you believe there is a need to contact the kennel club and have not mentioned contacting the breeder? Have you told the breeder what happened? I am sure if they were reputable breeders they would want to know.
> 
> ...


No I totally intend to contact the breeder. I'm not sure why I didn't add that part. I intend to call her later today. I'm just trying to compose myself a little. I've made 3 phone calls so far, called in sick for my partner, then for myself and then called the vets and cried the entire time. Not counting all the crying down the phone to my mum. So I'm just trying to calm down. My mum has offered to call her if I want her to but I want to speak to her myself 
Thanks for your advice though. We declined the post mortem and I know that sounds really selfish and horrible but we just couldn't bare the thought of him being cut up after all of this as well


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Poor boy. I would mention the campylobacter as she may think again about raw feeding, but then a lot of people do, it's what dogs eat naturally. I've fed raw and never had a problem ( only in old age with too much bone at once on top of arthritis - and that was my fault for giving too much all at once - my elderly mum's freezer started defrosting, so I "salvaged" some joints for the dogs.). It's probably a combination of farmed animals being more infected than "wild" foods like rabbit as they are kept in high densities, and young animals being less able to cope with infection. Like advice for humans for "the young, the elderly and pregnant women" being more strict. I had an "out of date" yoghurt yesterday, but wouldn't give it to my children. Do hope you get some answers soon, but sounds like nothing anyone could have predicted.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> No I totally intend to contact the breeder. I'm not sure why I didn't add that part. I intend to call her later today. I'm just trying to compose myself a little. I've made 3 phone calls so far, called in sick for my partner, then for myself and then called the vets and cried the entire time. Not counting all the crying down the phone to my mum. So I'm just trying to calm down. My mum has offered to call her if I want her to but I want to speak to her myself
> Thanks for your advice though. We declined the post mortem and I know that sounds really selfish and horrible but we just couldn't bare the thought of him being cut up after all of this as well


I would see if the post mortem is still on offer, really would give you some answers, and might, just might, save a litter mate's life if something is picked up in time. I know you don't want to "put your puppy through that" as it were, but it will be very respectful, like an operation, just the barest minimum done to get answers. He won't look awful afterwards if that's how you're scared of seeing him. Whatever decision you make it has to be one you're happy with, but when you can think straight maybe just talk to the vet about what it would entail. Thinking of you.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Catharinem said:


> Poor boy. I would mention the campylobacter as she may think again about raw feeding, but then a lot of people do, it's what dogs eat naturally. I've fed raw and never had a problem ( only in old age with too much bone at once on top of arthritis - and that was my fault for giving too much all at once - my elderly mum's freezer started defrosting, so I "salvaged" some joints for the dogs.). It's probably a combination of farmed animals being more infected than "wild" foods like rabbit as they are kept in high densities, and young animals being less able to cope with infection. Like advice for humans for "the young, the elderly and pregnant women" being more strict. I had an "out of date" yoghurt yesterday, but wouldn't give it to my children. Do hope you get some answers soon, but sounds like nothing anyone could have predicted.


I will mention it.
I just cannot get my head around it at all. We are both hurting so so bad. It's like it doesn't feel real. I know these are all the normal emotions and grief but this is so horrible. I just can't believe he has gone. He was so young and so happy.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Catharinem said:


> I would see if the post mortem is still on offer, really would give you some answers, and might, just might, save a litter mate's life if something is picked up in time. I know you don't want to "put your puppy through that" as it were, but it will be very respectful, like an operation, just the barest minimum done to get answers. He won't look awful afterwards if that's how you're scared of seeing him. Whatever decision you make it has to be one you're happy with, but when you can think straight maybe just talk to the vet about what it would entail. Thinking of you.


Thanks. My partners dad has advised him to go for the post mortem as well. I'm leaving it up to him because I bought my poor boy for him because the cats are my babies. He was like a little son to us both though. We loved him so much. He was called david in case anyone was wondering. My partner named him because he thought it was funny for him to have a human name. It really suited the little lad and I wanted him to grow up with it and be called david when he was old too. Lovely little lad. I still can't accept he is gone.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Little P said:


> Losing any pet is tough, and it's hard enough when they're elderly or have a long term terminal illness, but to lose a pup so suddenly must be terrible. Give yourself time to get over your loss. You may find this useful http://www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-bereavement-support
> 
> On a practical note, I'd contact the breeder and make them aware.


I've emailed the blue cross to see if they can help me through this a little. Going to have a better look at their website too for help and advice. Thank you for this I didn't even know it existed


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Catharinem said:


> Poor boy. I would mention the campylobacter as she may think again about raw feeding, but then a lot of people do, it's what dogs eat naturally. I've fed raw and never had a problem ( only in old age with too much bone at once on top of arthritis - and that was my fault for giving too much all at once - my elderly mum's freezer started defrosting, so I "salvaged" some joints for the dogs.). It's probably a combination of farmed animals being more infected than "wild" foods like rabbit as they are kept in high densities, and young animals being less able to cope with infection. Like advice for humans for "the young, the elderly and pregnant women" being more strict. I had an "out of date" yoghurt yesterday, but wouldn't give it to my children. Do hope you get some answers soon, but sounds like nothing anyone could have predicted.


My pointer had a nasty dose of campylobacter coupled with anaemia when he first came to us and he had not been fed raw so I don't think we should be jumping to conclusions in that respect.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

No, not jumping to conclusions, but my vet has stated a lot of raw feeders have chronic Campylobacter, and the puppy was fed raw, so a natural assumption it came from the raw meat. However, I don't think that's what killed the poor guy, and as I've said, I've fed raw and not had infection problems ( though I use my own meat and bone from my own farm animals, born and raised on farm and killed locally, not commercial poultry). I think a post mortem might through up something a bit more unusual.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

I'm glad we aren't thinking it was likely to be the raw meat because I am really praying it wasn't anything preventable. I'm not sure if I posted yet that I spoke with my normal vet receptionist and she said that the vet that saw him last night at the other branch documented about it being such a horrible experience for her because it was so fast. She told us over and over when we went that she was in shock herself. At least that means he didn't suffer it just happened unbelievably fast


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> I'm glad we aren't thinking it was likely to be the raw meat because I am really praying it wasn't anything preventable. I'm not sure if I posted yet that I spoke with my normal vet receptionist and she said that the vet that saw him last night at the other branch documented about it being such a horrible experience for her because it was so fast. She told us over and over when we went that she was in shock herself. At least that means he didn't suffer it just happened unbelievably fast


I don't think it's anything simple, and I don't think you or the breeder have done anything wrong. Hope you find some answers, but nobody is blaming you for your actions or your judgement in choosing him. One of my children lost a schoolfreind last summer holiday, 6 years old, didn't feel well, died in the back of his mum's car on the way to hospital. Awful situation, found out at PM he had a congenital problem, couldn't have been saved even if in hospital when started feeling poorly. We always try to think about what if's, but all you can do is the best you can on any one day.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I wouldn't blame the breeder for this, it sounds like whatever the pup died from (and I presume a post mortem is going to be done?) that its not anything the breeder would have been aware of or could have tested for. Life is just shit sometimes :Sorry


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## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

Just to say that I'm very, very sorry for your loss.
David sounds like he was a lovely happy chap.
His life was much too short, but it sounds like it was a very happy one.
And you both made that possible.
Take care xx


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I'm so sorry for you. Any loss is awful, but somehow even more painful when it's sudden and in such a young pup 

Definitely contact the breeder. From what you've said, it doesn't sound like anything that the breeder was aware of or that the pup was already suffering from, but she/he will need to know about the loss of one of their pups, and can advise/support you as needed. Not sure what the vet means about contacting the KC.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> The breeder told me before that she gave the puppies some raw mince meat because that's what her vet recommended as a healthy treat for them. I've given him cooked mince meat and cooked chicken. The campylobacter was confirmed to have gone but I think that was part of the issue like his bowel was so irritated from that and then I genuinely do think something congenital was going on for him to have just collapsed like that... It was so sudden he was so happy and healthy


 Many breeders wean their litters on to raw meat and many owners, like me, feed raw and our dogs have never contracted campylobacter ane your vet did not say your pup died from it and so it suggests something else was going on. Puppies, like humans, may be born with defects unfortunately, not all of them visible.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Catharinem said:


> I don't think it's anything simple, and I don't think you or the breeder have done anything wrong. Hope you find some answers, but nobody is blaming you for your actions or your judgement in choosing him. One of my children lost a schoolfreind last summer holiday, 6 years old, didn't feel well, died in the back of his mum's car on the way to hospital. Awful situation, found out at PM he had a congenital problem, couldn't have been saved even if in hospital when started feeling poorly. We always try to think about what if's, but all you can do is the best you can on any one day.


Not something I wanted to "like" your post for, as it is such a tragic thing to happen, but thank you for bringing this aspect to the thread. SOmetimes things happen that no one could predict or expect, and possibly couldn't do anything about even if they were aware of them.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

So sorry for your loss, it's hard when they leave us, but a puppy I can't imagine how you must be feeling. Try and remember the happy times your had with him.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Catharinem said:


> I don't think it's anything simple, and I don't think you or the breeder have done anything wrong. Hope you find some answers, but nobody is blaming you for your actions or your judgement in choosing him. One of my children lost a schoolfreind last summer holiday, 6 years old, didn't feel well, died in the back of his mum's car on the way to hospital. Awful situation, found out at PM he had a congenital problem, couldn't have been saved even if in hospital when started feeling poorly. We always try to think about what if's, but all you can do is the best you can on any one day.


That's so terrible  it does prove that these things happen though. I've just taken all of his stuff to my mum and dads and they are going to sort through it for me and bin the things I couldn't bring myself to throw away. Both of them just sat and had a good cry with me. None of us can even believe it has happened to him


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## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

I'm sorry for your loss. It's a terrible thing to happen so suddenly...
I would definitely get the post-mortem to get some closure, and if i understand correctly you also have cats at home? I would want to make sure it's not something that could still be in the house the way some diseases can be caught some time later...
Just saw that one of your cats has been ill and your hedgehog died recently. I would definitely consider a post-mortem in this situation. It may all be just a coincidence and bad luck but I would want to know.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

I am so sorry for your loss.It sounds so heart breaking all i can do is send you my prayers.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

So sorry for your loss  

You obviously loved David very much and it's hard to think of him being cut open, I know but I think a postmortem would be the best thing. 

You will know why, rather than beat yourselves up over anything you feel you should have or could have done (we all do it). 

Plus it may save the lives of his litter mates if it's something they could be in danger of.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

shadowmare said:


> I'm sorry for your loss. It's a terrible thing to happen so suddenly...
> I would definitely get the post-mortem to get some closure, and if i understand correctly you also have cats at home? I would want to make sure it's not something that could still be in the house the way some diseases can be caught some time later...
> Just saw that one of your cats has been ill and your hedgehog died recently. I would definitely consider a post-mortem in this situation. It may all be just a coincidence and bad luck but I would want to know.


The hedgehog had an oral tumour so that's not linked because that's really common in the hedgehogs. My lady cat is being admitted for the day tomorrow to have lots of tests to find out what is happening with her kidneys. My other 2 cats are fine though. At the moment anyway. I'll speak to the vet when they ring me back to arrange the time to fetch my girl in tomorrow and see what they think about the post mortem and the tests.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Just had a long chat with the vet and we have decided to go for a post mortem on the puppy we lost. I'm going to discuss it further with her tomorrow morning and tell them we do not want to know what the cause of death was unless it was something that could harm the cats. I'm going to give them the contact details of the breeder and ask them to contact her if it something she needs to be aware of. That way we have peace of mind without ever finding out if it was something that could have been stopped. Because if it was something that could have been stopped I will be furious at the vets for seeing him so often with my concerns and not doing anything about it


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> Just had a long chat with the vet and we have decided to go for a post mortem on the puppy we lost. I'm going to discuss it further with her tomorrow morning and tell them we do not want to know what the cause of death was unless it was something that could harm the cats. I'm going to give them the contact details of the breeder and ask them to contact her if it something she needs to be aware of. That way we have peace of mind without ever finding out if it was something that could have been stopped. Because if it was something that could have been stopped I will be furious at the vets for seeing him so often with my concerns and not doing anything about it


I think you are doing the right thing. Personally, I think I would want to know the results, but I can totally appreciate your feelings, and your need to be able to maintain a trusting relationship with your vet.

Providing the breeder's contact details is an excellent idea and giving permission to inform the breeder is the best thing you can do.

It has taken tremendous courage to allow little David to be PM'd - but please remember, your little one is beyond all pain and distress. I don't know whether you have a faith stance of any type, but I am a Christian, and I truly believe that your pup is with God, enveloped in greater love than any human (even you) can offer, and that one day you will be re-united.

I hope that whatever the cause of David's tragic death, your courage will help to prevent any other animal suffering as he did, and other owners from experiencing the horrendous grief you are going through now.

God bless - my prayers are with you.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

lostbear said:


> I think you are doing the right thing. Personally, I think I would want to know the results, but I can totally appreciate your feelings, and your need to be able to maintain a trusting relationship with your vet.
> 
> Providing the breeder's contact details is an excellent idea and giving permission to inform the breeder is the best thing you can do.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much this means so much to me. I have done nothing but cry about him all day. I know he wouldn't want me to. I like the idea that time moves differently there and that they don't feel how long it actually takes for us to join them. So it doesn't feel like he is waiting long for his momma.


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## tattoogirl73 (Jun 25, 2011)

i'm so sorry for your loss


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## Lulus mum (Feb 14, 2011)

My heart goes out to you and I can feel the pain in every word you have put in your posts.You obviously loved David and all your other pets so much .
When I think about the many animals who are given little or no care and love and then of the pets such as David it really breaks my heart.
I lost my collie cross Lulu very very suddenly in 2011 and I joined P F in bits for help and support .
I poured out my heart -not once but many times and the response I received was a life saver and it helped so much .
Apart from the awful pain of loss I felt so much guilt-so many "what if s"
Lulu, though ,was 15 not a young puppy like David .
I didnt ask for a P M ,but can totally understand your wanting one.

You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Love and hugs
Maureen


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Lulus mum said:


> My heart goes out to you and I can feel the pain in every word you have put in your posts.You obviously loved David and all your other pets so much .
> When I think about the many animals who are given little or no care and love and then of the pets such as David it really breaks my heart.
> I lost my collie cross Lulu very very suddenly in 2011 and I joined P F in bits for help and support .
> I poured out my heart -not once but many times and the response I received was a life saver and it helped so much .
> ...


Thank you for your kind words
And to everyone who is replying to this thread!
I really am going to give the vet strict rules of what they can and can't tell us about the post mortem because the whole reason my OH didn't want it is because he doesn't want to feel responsible in any way. I've never seen him cry until now and it breaks my heart even more every time.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

You really are doing the right thing, as much as it might hurt to think about it right now.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

It might be worth getting the vets to write down their findings but keeping it in a sealed envelope (perhaps with your parents) for a couple of months or however long until you feel strong enough to cope with it. I know I would want to know eventually although probably not just yet while still in shock and grieving. Have you thought about a little memorial, we have a lovely rose bush a friend gave us when one of our dogs died and a winter flowering Jasmine given to us when our lovely girl Jazz died.


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## cava14 una (Oct 21, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> It might be worth getting the vets to write down their findings but keeping it in a sealed envelope (perhaps with your parents) for a couple of months or however long until you feel strong enough to cope with it. I know I would want to know eventually although probably not just yet while still in shock and grieving. Have you thought about a little memorial, we have a lovely rose bush a friend gave us when one of our dogs died and a winter flowering Jasmine given to us when our lovely girl Jazz died.


I think that's a good idea.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> It might be worth getting the vets to write down their findings but keeping it in a sealed envelope (perhaps with your parents) for a couple of months or however long until you feel strong enough to cope with it. I know I would want to know eventually although probably not just yet while still in shock and grieving. Have you thought about a little memorial, we have a lovely rose bush a friend gave us when one of our dogs died and a winter flowering Jasmine given to us when our lovely girl Jazz died.


That's a really good idea actually. I think I might do that. I just loved him so much and I feel so helpless that my poor OH misses him so badly. I think that hurts even more than missing him myself. He went downstairs in the night for a drink and came back up crying so hard and we both just laid there cuddling each other and crying. I just can't believe he is gone. We had made ourselves into dog people, our whole lives revolved around him. We were waiting for our new car which was a big one literally just for he dog. Brand new car. We have had to cancel it and lose the deposit because we couldn't bare driving around in it knowing it was just for him. It would have made us sad. We had no reason for it without him.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Have only just read this, so sorry for your loss.
Run free at the bridge little puppy, knowing that in your short life you knew nothing but love.xx
Big (((((( hugs)))))) for those you left behind.
Take care and look after yourselves, my thoughts are with you at this sad time.xxx


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

The mornings are the most painful. I only work a few hours in he afternoon like absolute maximum 5hrs. I used to come down early to let him out for a massive wee that he'd saved all night. Then he'd cry at me waiting for his breakfast and then he'd cry at me every time I turned the tap on to do the pots because he wanted attention. He'd steal all the socks out of the washing machine as I was loading or unloading it and then steal them all off the radiators too. I just can't bare this. Cried so hard in the kitchen I woke my OH up and he came down to me


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

I miss all those things. Anything that even slightly annoyed me but deep down I found it so cute! I know that every time I even slightly told him off. Even the times when he would nip me really hard when he was playing... I tried so hard to ignore it to make him grow out of it and he did grow out of it for the week before he died. Sometimes though he would get me in the back of the knee or the inside of my upper arm and it would hurt so bad. I bruise so easily and I still have bruises that I never want to go away now. Sometimes I would jump because of the pain and tell him off or push him away even though I knew that was absolutely wrong for teaching him and he would think I was still playing so he never even knew I was upset with him so I need to remember that even the times when i was slightly mad at his beautiful little teeth He didn't even catch on that I was mad. God I loved him so much and I feel so guilty for any time I was even slightly annoyed. I just wanted the best for him. I never hurt him I just used to shout sometimes but because I have a high voice he just wagged his tail and ran around loving me anyway. I just miss him so much. I can't even think straight.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm so sorry this has happened, your pain is clear to see.
The idea of a memorial is a lovely one , a rose bush in a pot maybe ?
Just an idea but was there anything you really wanted to do but didn't because you had David to consider ? If so this could be the time to do it - a short holiday abroad , hotel stay spa break , someting like that.


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## WillowT (Mar 21, 2015)

No words, just thoughts xxx


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

SusieRainbow said:


> I'm so sorry this has happened, your pain is clear to see.
> The idea of a memorial is a lovely one , a rose bush in a pot maybe ?
> Just an idea but was there anything you really wanted to do but didn't because you had David to consider ? If so this could be the time to do it - a short holiday abroad , hotel stay spa break , someting like that.


We were talking about getting him a passport and taking him to France. I've never been abroad but we thought about taking him on a ferry so I dont think we want to go anywhere right now. So awful. I loved him so much. I've just called the breeder and spoke with her daughter and we both cried. Breeder is going to ring me back later when she is home. 
The vet is trying to find out if david has been cremated yet she has been ringing round since last night to make sure it doesn't happen if it hasn't already. So we will see what comes of it. 
Thank you so much everyone I will keep you updated.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> Thank you for your kind words
> And to everyone who is replying to this thread!
> I really am going to give the vet strict rules of what they can and can't tell us about the post mortem because the whole reason my OH didn't want it is because he doesn't want to feel responsible in any way. I've never seen him cry until now and it breaks my heart even more every time.


Oh he shouldn't feel responsible. 
Perhaps once the shock has alleviated you can start thinking about another dog again, that can often help with the grieving process. I still had Amber when Bonnie died and that helped.


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## ladyisla (Apr 19, 2014)

How completely heartbreaking, I can't even begin to imagine how terrible you all must feel. Thinking of you and David at this time. Xx


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

We had a post mortem. They said that it was completely unpreventable and a horrible thing to happen. She's still sending samples of lots of fluids and things just to rule out anything can have passed to my cat. I'm especially glad I was talked into doing the post mortem mostly by people on here. Not only have I gained closure that I couldn't do anything to prevent this but My cat has inflammation in her bowel and slightly enlarged lymph nodes so they have decided it is an infection with her. Her kidneys were normal sized and no cysts, her urinary tract was fine. They have taken urine samples and faecal samples to test from her too. I provided them with 3 days worth to ensure she gets tested for campilobacter as well as other things. 
Thank you everyone for your ongoing support


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Its good that the post mortem gave you some consolation that there was nothing you could have done to prevent the awful thing that happened.
I do hope that your cat is soon feeling better, and that the tests come up positive for you both.
Thinking of you and sending lots of good positive thoughts your way.
Take care and look after yourselves.xxx


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm so sorry for you 



Catharinem said:


> No, not jumping to conclusions, but my vet has stated a lot of raw feeders have chronic Campylobacter, and the puppy was fed raw, so a natural assumption it came from the raw meat. However, I don't think that's what killed the poor guy, and as I've said, I've fed raw and not had infection problems ( though I use my own meat and bone from my own farm animals, born and raised on farm and killed locally, not commercial poultry). I think a post mortem might through up something a bit more unusual.


I think unless the vet has carried out a decent peer reviewed study on raw feeding, he should perhaps keep his opinions to himself. Very few vets know much about raw feeding and they certainly have almost zero training on nutrition.


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

cinnamontoast said:


> I'm so sorry for you
> 
> I think unless the vet has carried out a decent peer reviewed study on raw feeding, he should perhaps keep his opinions to himself. Very few vets know much about raw feeding and they certainly have almost zero training on nutrition.


It is well known that almost all poultry ( commercially raised at least) carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. Remember the Edwina Currie scandle when she told the truth? Hence why poultry should ALWAYS be well cooked. I have fed raw to my dogs and not had infection problems, however when it came up in conversation my vet has seen many many raw feeders with chronic Campylobacter infection. However, some of these dogs may be on a raw diet because they are already intolerant of other foods, so it's all about balance. I honestly don't think this was responsible for poor David's death, and not attaching any blame.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

I'm so sorry for you - as I had something similar with a GSD puppy. In our case it was heart failure, the puppy having been diagnosed with a faulty heart 2 days before she dropped dead at my feet. You need to console yourself that you did everything you could have done and none of it was your fault. Certainly you should tell the breeder and if your breeder was anything like ours she was crying down the phone as well. Quite why you were told to tell the Kennel Club is a mystery - they are irrelevant to your situation, even if you have their insurance because that's with a totally different company.


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

I know i post this a lot but it has helped me tremendously and i like to share it in hopes it helps others as much as it did me.

when they are set free

free in the spirit and free as the wind able to run where ever their hearts wish
They will spend much time with us looking over us and watching us
wishing they could make things better or easier but not knowing why we cant see
they will run through the long grass on the eternal warm summer days
always wanting and longing to see their long lost friends
day after day doing what they wish eating what they wish drinking what they wish
chasing the rabbits and squirrels and birds to pass the time
always keeping an eye on who they loved in their previous life
no longer having any pain or feeling old and grey
movement comes easy just like a pup
There is always a longing and a sadness in their heart
they want their loved ones to come see
they wish to show us that beautiful place where they run so wild and free
no longer in any of this worldly dangers
their only want is to feel that hand upon their head 
to lick the face of their loved one just like they did
for us to see them and call their name
that we cant see them is just a shame
they will be happy to know we continue to love
their loyalty is to make us happy
i for one will get pummeled when that day comes about
by many big boys and girls all wanting the same thing
i am still somewhat young and many more i will add
many many heart scars i will have
they will be set free one by one and meet them again i will
on the day when the lord sets me free
when my worldly journey is done i am sure i will meet all of them again
until then they will continue with the above


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Catharinem said:


> It is well known that almost all poultry ( commercially raised at least) carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. Remember the Edwina Currie scandle when she told the truth? Hence why poultry should ALWAYS be well cooked. I have fed raw to my dogs and not had infection problems, however when it came up in conversation my vet has seen many many raw feeders with chronic Campylobacter infection. However, some of these dogs may be on a raw diet because they are already intolerant of other foods, so it's all about balance. I honestly don't think this was responsible for poor David's death, and not attaching any blame.


Thank you. The vet doesn't think this was the cause either. He hadn't had any raw meat after he was treated thoroughly with a long course of antibiotics and had the all clear on his stool samples. They are testing for it again in his post mortem but they genuinely believe this was nothing to do with infection. They're only testing for it just to check for things my cat could have caught


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

AlbertRoss said:


> I'm so sorry for you - as I had something similar with a GSD puppy. In our case it was heart failure, the puppy having been diagnosed with a faulty heart 2 days before she dropped dead at my feet. You need to console yourself that you did everything you could have done and none of it was your fault. Certainly you should tell the breeder and if your breeder was anything like ours she was crying down the phone as well. Quite why you were told to tell the Kennel Club is a mystery - they are irrelevant to your situation, even if you have their insurance because that's with a totally different company.


I have spoken to the breeder's daughter and explained. She cried. I have asked for the breeder to call me back but not heard anything yet I imagine she is in shock. I'm going to email her tomorrow if she doesn't call me back. Just explain. It must be hard for her she raised him from birth.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Rott lover said:


> I know i post this a lot but it has helped me tremendously and i like to share it in hopes it helps others as much as it did me.
> 
> when they are set free
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> Thank you so much for this


You are welcome.I wrote that when i lost my Oliver and i read it to myself often.It has been a while now but it sill hits me very now and then and i still lose it.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> We had a post mortem. They said that it was completely unpreventable and a horrible thing to happen. She's still sending samples of lots of fluids and things just to rule out anything can have passed to my cat. I'm especially glad I was talked into doing the post mortem mostly by people on here. Not only have I gained closure that I couldn't do anything to prevent this but My cat has inflammation in her bowel and slightly enlarged lymph nodes so they have decided it is an infection with her. Her kidneys were normal sized and no cysts, her urinary tract was fine. They have taken urine samples and faecal samples to test from her too. I provided them with 3 days worth to ensure she gets tested for campilobacter as well as other things.
> Thank you everyone for your ongoing support


I liked your post because I think you were very brave to go ahead with the PM and I'm so glad it proved to be nothing preventable. Hope you are very slowly coming to terms with things.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I liked your post because I think you were very brave to go ahead with the PM and I'm so glad it proved to be nothing preventable. Hope you are very slowly coming to terms with things.


I've cried every few minutes today. I managed to go to work for a few hours. My work friends were so lovely to me. They bought me flowers and chocolates. I've just sniffed a teddy he loved. He absolutely destroyed it. He stole it off me and put holes in its face so I let him keep it  it smells so strongly of him. I cried for a while. He was a stinky little puppy


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> I've cried every few minutes today. I managed to go to work for a few hours. My work friends were so lovely to me. They bought me flowers and chocolates. I've just sniffed a teddy he loved. He absolutely destroyed it. He stole it off me and put holes in its face so I let him keep it  it smells so strongly of him. I cried for a while. He was a stinky little puppy


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

The Rainbow Bridge

Hoping this will help you,
I find it a great comfort when we have lost one of our fury friends.
Take care.xx


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Nobody could have loved him more, and he knew that. Things will get easier but it doesn't seem so now whilst it's so raw and you're still waiting on results. In time I promise you will remember the happy times without breaking down. I know how you feel about loving even his naughty/smelly habits, my first cat used to suck on my shirt every day whilst needling me in the stomach, don't know how many times I told her off for it, but now would be happy to have her do it just one last time. Hang in there, things will get easier with time.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

I just saw someone walking 3 german shepherds and I know this sounds awful but I was so jealous. I don't see how it's fair that they can have 3 and mine has gone


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> I just saw someone walking 3 german shepherds and I know this sounds awful but I was so jealous. I don't see how it's fair that they can have 3 and mine has gone


That is all part of the grieving process and perfectly natural. I've lost quite a few of my dogs young (not as young as your pup) my first 3 rotties died at 5,6 and 6 and in 2009 I lost all 3 of my dogs within 6 months. I went through a lot of emotions and still get so mad when people take their dogs for granted and don't treat them well because it just seems so unfair that they still have their dog and I've lost mine. Irrational I know and it does get better with time I promise.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> That is all part of the grieving process and perfectly natural. I've lost quite a few of my dogs young (not as young as your pup) my first 3 rotties died at 5,6 and 6 and in 2009 I lost all 3 of my dogs within 6 months. I went through a lot of emotions and still get so mad when people take their dogs for granted and don't treat them well because it just seems so unfair that they still have their dog and I've lost mine. Irrational I know and it does get better with time I promise.


I'm so sorry you lost your babies too. I feel awful for making people think back to what happened to their babies but at the same time I'm glad I'm not alone in this. There's a lot of things I can't say to my OH because it makes him sad too and it's not fair


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I am so so sorry you are going through this, life is so cruel and unfair at times, I totally agree with Rottieph's post about the grieving process, it is long and hard and irrational at times, I lost my dog at far too young an age she was just 2 1/2 years old and it completely broke me for awhile but now I can look back at the times I had with her fondly without crying, it does get better and easier, just look after yourself and your husband and take the time you need to grieve your poor puppy, her life may have been short but you packed it full of love for her.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Got to speak to the breeder today. She seemed very sad. I'm very glad I had the post mortem results to give to her so she knew it wasn't something we had done or something that she bred into him. She did tell me that even though she knows I won't be thinking about this type of thing at the moment she is planning on breeding the same parents next year and we are obviously welcome. It wouldn't be a replacement but it would be a living link to him. We aren't entirely sure how we feel about it yet but my OH has gone from "no way!!!" To "we will see how we feel next year".
So we will see. At the moment I'm still unbelievably raw, both of us are. We still keep having a cry. We miss him so much. It was like losing a baby to us. We haven't got kids and we are both in our mid 20s. We aren't ready for kids yet and we nurtured him and he grew so well. He was perfect in every single way imaginable. I'm just so glad we spoiled him rotten.


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

Nico0laGouldsmith said:


> Got to speak to the breeder today. She seemed very sad. I'm very glad I had the post mortem results to give to her so she knew it wasn't something we had done or something that she bred into him. She did tell me that even though she knows I won't be thinking about this type of thing at the moment she is planning on breeding the same parents next year and we are obviously welcome. It wouldn't be a replacement but it would be a living link to him. We aren't entirely sure how we feel about it yet but my OH has gone from "no way!!!" To "we will see how we feel next year".
> So we will see. At the moment I'm still unbelievably raw, both of us are. We still keep having a cry. We miss him so much. It was like losing a baby to us. We haven't got kids and we are both in our mid 20s. We aren't ready for kids yet and we nurtured him and he grew so well. He was perfect in every single way imaginable. I'm just so glad we spoiled him rotten.


We had exactly the same response from our breeder. Roscoe has now been with us for 5 years. He didn't replace our puppy - nothing could - but he did fill the gap and, as he's a relative, just a little bit more special. I know it's early - but, all other things being equal, go for it


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## Catharinem (Dec 17, 2014)

Sounds a good solution, giving you time to grieve and then a link to him. You'll never forget him, and will probably see a lot of his habits in his younger brother or sister. Sometimes life just throws these things at you. My youngest daughter was on life support for 3 weeks as a baby, born fine and I started worrying a couple of days after getting her home. Thank God she's a normal, healthy ( bit cheeky because we've spoilt her!) girl now, but we know it could have been so different. And she lost a schoolfreind suddenly aged 6, these things happen to the best of people, for no reason, and it seems so unfair.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

AlbertRoss said:


> We had exactly the same response from our breeder. Roscoe has now been with us for 5 years. He didn't replace our puppy - nothing could - but he did fill the gap and, as he's a relative, just a little bit more special. I know it's early - but, all other things being equal, go for it


we would have been considered for another puppy from our breeder even when our older cross breed dog Pippa died, as she was still breeding, but my parents decided to get an older Retriever. I remember she had two bitches with litters at the same time and one bitch miscarried all but one of her pups so she ended up being the milk bar for the other bitch's pups as she had a large litter. So we may have ended up with one of Bonnie's half sisters or half brother.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

AlbertRoss said:


> We had exactly the same response from our breeder. Roscoe has now been with us for 5 years. He didn't replace our puppy - nothing could - but he did fill the gap and, as he's a relative, just a little bit more special. I know it's early - but, all other things being equal, go for it


It's very reassuring that someone did the same thing. Because it proved that you didn't resent him! We are definitely warming to the idea but stil can't stop crying about our baby


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

I know this is going to sound really strange but i know i am not ready for another dog and neither is the wife.We still have the odd cry and meltdown now and then.I find that between @Meezey and @rottiepointerhouse i live through their rotts.I went from not wanting to even look at another rott to waiting to see their pics.It is a great loss and it will take lots of time.It has been quite a while but i know i am going to need much more.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

what an absolutely terrible, heartbreaking thing to happen - I can't even imagine how horrific it's been for you (((hugs))) and sleep tight wee man xx


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

thank you everyone 
It still hurts unbelievably but we are managing to smile about the absolutely adorable things he used to do....even though it does lead to me crying. 
Like when he thought he was tricking us. He used to do a wee outside and then when he thought we wanted him to come in (we used to stay out with him watching him every time) he would run around in circles around us and then stop in front of us waiting for us to try and get his collar to gently direct him inside then when we out our hand out he would run off again! He was so clever. Most of the time we would do that for a bit and then because he was enjoying himself we'd play catch and fetch for a bit before going in. Let's face it the washing up could wait! I'm just so glad we spoiled him so rotten every single day of his life with buying him presents by taking him to the pet shop or any time when we did leave him we would always buy him a toy or something from the supermarket. I only went to work for a few hours in the afternoon so absolutely most importantly... way more important than all the stuff we bought him we spent an unbelievable amount of time with him. We actually avoided going places and doing things if it meant we had to leave him. Now I know that wouldn't have gone on forever.... As time went on we would have started to occasionally take him for granted and carried on with our lives but because we only had the joy of having him for 3 months we never left him for long even if it was just us sitting on the settee with him doing absolutely nothing so I can't even feel guilty about any of it... Just spending time with him laying pressing his bum into my OH and leaning over my legs with his front legs and head. He barely fit on the settee with us recently but we would rather be uncomfortable and him be comfortable than make him go on his own bed!


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

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Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)




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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)




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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)




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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

This is him when we first got him


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

The day I brought him home


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

very very pretty photos and cherish all that time and love remember the good and don't live in the hurt and pain.

Time is always here
we always hold it dear
Time will always tick on
time created that bond
did we do the right thing
could we have done better
he was my little treasure
what if i did this or if i did that
you could beat yourself with a baseball bat
going over it again and again
just ending up back at the end
what happened has happened 
cant change it now
When the pain and tears start to settle
you will know you did the best you could


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

What a stunning boy he was. I'm glad you are able to look at his photos and share them now and remember good times. Eventually they will take over from the sad memories.


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

He was growing up so fast and so beautifully. We loved him being a puppy but we were starting to be able to see his adult features. He had all of his adult teeth across the front part of his mouth except for one on the left at the bottom next to his canine because it had only just come out the day before he died. It had been hanging on by a thread for ages and I'd been working at it by playing with socks with him and all sorts and then the day before he died he opened his mouth and it was gone. I can't believe how heartbroken I am

And now to top it all off. My 2 male cats, the adult and the kitten are both waiting for results back from their faecal samples because they had loose poos. My girl is going back to the vets tonight to discuss what is going on with her kidneys. 

I have completely shut the cats all upstairs so they haven't been in the kitchen, lounge or hallways since the puppy was there so if he did have an underlying infection as well (again the vet has assured me that wouldn't not have directly caused the twist) that they haven't picked it up since he died... They've more likely picked it up off my girl who is having the investigations. She may have picked it up from him before he died somehow if he did have one. so if his test results come back to say he had it too then I'm not to be too upset. Especially since he will have had the campilobacter right from when we got him and that got treated but at the time I did ask the vet if we needed to test the cats and she said that as hey hadn't had much contact with him and they don't have contact with his poo/he didn't have contact with theirs then it was unlikely it would spread and they didn't have any symptoms back then...
My brain is in overdrive at the moment I'm just so heartbroken still. My boyfriend doesn't cry anymore but he is still really sad. I can't stop crying still.


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