# URGENT - Hoping BSH Breeders and owners can help with info....



## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi All,

If you have been reading the thread over in cat chat regarding poor little Sapphire/Saffron you will know I am the person who went to collect her today and take her on the first leg of her journey to a better life.

I don't want to go into any of the shocking details of what I saw today at the premises as hoping that there will be an official report made regarding conditions there but what disturbed me the most is the following...

This person is not giving her crossbreeds and moggies away as she is giving up - she is actually now going to deal exclusively in pedigree kittens!!! - BSH and Russians which will leave her with 5 generation pedigrees - She is *expanding* her operation, already has a new stud in waiting she has kept back and a number of young females and is now waiting for 2 new BSH to arrive. She told me she can sell BSH as fast as she breeds them - terrible.

I am hoping that the cats she already has there can be helped in some way but more importantly want to try to prevent any more being shipped into there if I can.

I am hoping BSH breeders and owners on here can help me - I am desperate to locate the two BSH kittens breeder who they are still with so that I can send these pictures on, I know the following...

They are coming from the same place
They are coming from Great Yarmouth
They are 7 months old
They are probably Blues

Does anyone have an inkling of who could be the breeder, have seen an advert for them recently, know of someone with 2 older kittens on their hands which have recently been reserved etc????

Any help appreciated and just to make the urgency understood here is the poor little girl I was lucky enough to meet today. At some stage she must have been loved by someone as she was very affectionate but this is how she has ended up. 

Lisa.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Oh that poor girl  Good luck with the search, are there BSH email lists or FB groups that could help? There are for many breeds.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I now have sapphire safe with me but i could hang this owner.


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

Happy to search for BSH breeders and email them if they are in that area, if thats of any help?


Just not sure what too say incase these people happen to know about her farm?


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

Oh dear, I've just googled BSH great yarmouth and have found quite a few ads on preloved, as well as Wanting Home`s (mods, please remove if this shouldn't be posted here) and ads on P4H etc

What a relief Saffy's now safe, and I hope through the amazing folks on here we can help stop other kittens/queens heading this person's way


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

I can email the BSH cat club if that helps? Got it all ready too go so they have details and can distribute?


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

OK, very quickly looking on the bsh cat club facebook and theres a mobile number, might be too late too ring but i can text?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

dear oh dear.do you know this vile cow is only 20 mins from me..answer to your question i will put money on that the brreeder whos selling the ped brits isnt a reputable breeder,iv spoke to her on phone and she doesnt have the gift of the gab to aquire breeding girls from top breeders.

What ever it is its bloody vile.

These are people who undercut the decent breeders and sell too early none vaccinated for like £200,buyers think they are getting a bargain but the truth is far from it


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Lisa, i need the address for my vet to contact rspca, unless there is another way to shut her down, wont post my way as it wouldnt be very nice.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Lisa,

First of all, xan I just say a big thank you for going for Saffron, but am so sorry that you had to see what you saw and experienced xxxx

Is it worth you getting in touch with that local council area, perhaps public health/trading standards,

Something really needs to be done xxx


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

I have written a text ready too send with sort of details of the operation....but no locations or anything yet, saying its best i speak to them on the phone.


Am I ok too send the text?

If so I may need someone to PM me more details, like address of this place incase they can narrow down the breeders with cats of that age and colour going too a new home and so can ask if people know where there cats are going...if you get me?

Maybe a description of the lady who is doing it so if anyone spoken or seen her then we may get a lead?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

welshjet said:


> Lisa,
> 
> First of all, xan I just say a big thank you for going for Saffron, but am so sorry that you had to see what you saw and experienced xxxx
> 
> ...


oh yes..anything thats gona do her head in.


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

catcoonz said:


> Lisa, i need the address for my vet to contact rspca, unless there is another way to shut her down, wont post my way as it wouldnt be very nice.


Im sure me and many others would join you in the latter


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## Cheryl89 (Jun 24, 2013)

I'll also do whatever you need guys! Im just so shocked  

Scum bag BYB!!!!!!!!


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

Can I get a nod too send the text?

I dont wanna do it if people dont want me too


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cheryl89 said:


> I'll also do whatever you need guys! Im just so shocked
> 
> Scum bag BYB!!!!!!!!


..not even a back yard some kind of kitten farm looks like,arnt their hay bales selling or something?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Staysee said:


> Can I get a nod too send the text?
> 
> I dont wanna do it if people dont want me too


careful..might jepadize (sp) a rspca visit if she cleans up her act.


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> careful..might jepadize (sp) a rspca visit if she cleans up her act.


But we want to find and stop these 7 month old kittens dont we? If we can


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi Guys,

We seem to have lots of great ideas to try to locate the breeder - might be best to just send out requests without too much info saying 'I am trying to locate the seller in the Great Yarmouth area selling 2 BSH kittens aged 7 months to a buyer in the Hatfield/Barnby Dun area of Doncaster as I have information regarding the transaction and need to speak to them urgently' - you can then either act as point of contact or give my email address for any information which is [email protected] and am happy for this to be circulated and want to speak to them myself.

Unfortunately I also think that they will be coming from a below par breeder as don't think a good breeder would let kittens go for breeding without checks - although breeder may not know they are even going to be bred from I suppose.

Lisa.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Staysee said:


> But we want to find and stop these 7 month old kittens dont we? If we can


Of course,but how exactly by texting her?


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> Of course,but how exactly by texting her?


The thought was with this person running the bsh cat club they would be able to narrow down breeders quicker in the area and contact them?

Plus they could also be on alert themselves


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Staysee said:


> But we want to find and stop these 7 month old kittens dont we? If we can


......

Absolutely ...... but things need to be done very , very carefully .... We all want the same outcome , shutting this Vile C0w & her practices down ...

It's no good bombarding her , or breeders with texts .... this could inadvertently alert her to what is going on ..... I understand peoples keenness , but things need to be carefully thought out , then put into motion ...... That is just my thoughts on this


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Staysee said:


> The thought was with this person running the bsh cat club they would be able to narrow down breeders quicker in the area and contact them?
> 
> Plus they could also be on alert themselves


Can you explain what you mean?..running the bsh cat club?? I hope not.


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

tincan said:


> ......
> 
> Absolutely ...... but things need to be done very , very carefully .... We all want the same outcome , shutting this Vile C0w & her practices down ...
> 
> It's no good bombarding her , or breeders with texts .... this could inadvertently alert her to what is going on ..... I understand peoples keenness , but things need to be carefully thought out , then put into motion ...... That is just my thoughts on this


I never said I was going too bombard breeders?

I said I would text bsh club with a vague text and ask them when was the best time too call them to tell them the situation and area so if they wanted too look themselves and ask breeders then they could.

Sorry


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

we love bsh's said:


> Can you explain what you mean?..running the bsh cat club?? I hope not.


The person i would text? Not this vile woman?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

tincan said:


> ......
> 
> Absolutely ...... but things need to be done very , very carefully .... We all want the same outcome , shutting this Vile C0w & her practices down ...
> 
> It's no good bombarding her , or breeders with texts .... this could inadvertently alert her to what is going on ..... I understand peoples keenness , but things need to be carefully thought out , then put into motion ...... That is just my thoughts on this


You are very wise my sweet.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Staysee said:


> The person i would text? Not this vile woman?


Ah i see im sorry.in all honesty we are probably dealing with breeders that dont abide by the club rules nor GCCF rules.So most probably pointless.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Staysee said:


> OK, very quickly looking on the bsh cat club facebook and theres a mobile number, might be too late too ring but i can text?


Can you post on the page, or send a message via the page? The breeding world is a small one, even if the breeders selling the cats aren't in the club someone may know who they are.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Staysee said:


> I never said I was going too bombard breeders?
> 
> I said I would text bsh club with a vague text and ask them when was the best time too call them to tell them the situation and area so if they wanted too look themselves and ask breeders then they could.
> 
> Sorry


Oh Staysee don't apologise , I wasn't having a go at you ..... I was just expressing my thoughts .... We all get overwhelmed and want to get shot of these BYB's ...... All i'm saying is let's think straight , let the initial anger pass by , then move in even if this takes weeks to sort .... Lets see what CC's vet says ..... he say's he is willing to notify the appropriate ( lol) authorities ...... No harm in gathering info though but without letting the cat out of the bag so to speak


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## imogenmc3 (Nov 25, 2013)

You know this part of the forum is public right? If this woman knows at all that any forums are involved it wouldn't take much to find this page. It's probably best if you keep plans of action private. This public chatter might in itself jeopardise any action the RSPCA take.

Glad the poor wee thing is away from her at least, and I hope something can be done to stop the 2 x 7month olds going anywhere near her.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Too late to keep this quiet, any search will bring this up now even if the thread is deleted.

Rspca are aware and have photographic proof, she wont have time to sort anything or clear this up, they are ready to go.


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

Did anyone look at the link I posted earlier?? I have to say I think that would be a good place to start given the description of their kittens and the sound of their setup (I may be limited in my experience but something about their site got my alarm bells ringing).

TBH, my personal opinion is that as much concrete evidence needs to be gathered as possible before making contact with any other orgs like breed clubs/cpl etc, and we will only get that info through more investigation. 

The thing with situations like this, particularly when so many people feel passionately about it when they haven't got ALL the facts to hand (and at this point in time there are only a few people who do have all the info that's been gathered so far, and a lot is still waiting to be uncovered), suspicions can be raised unnecessarily about people who are in no way connected to this shameful operation.

Before saying anything to ANYONE who's not involved on here at the mo, I think there is more detective work to be done. We do not want to get anyone into trouble without concrete evidence, so I think we'd be premature in saying anything to places like cat clubs etc at this point in time. It would be too easy to get wires crossed when things are as complicated as this situation seems, and the last thing we want to do is lose credibility with people we might well need help and support from to get the right outcome here.

Once reliable evidence is gathered, then let then have it! But we are not in a position to do this just yet IMHO.


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## nicolaa123 (Mar 30, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> Too late to keep this quiet, any search will bring this up now even if the thread is deleted.
> 
> Rspca are aware and have photographic proof, she wont have time to sort anything or clear this up, they are ready to go.


Whoop whoop!

Saves me boarding a train


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Shared anyway.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

I was hoping my original request would throw up some knowledge that might help, to tap into the inside local area grapevine info that most breeders seem to have. 

If someone asked me if I knew who could be selling a 7 month old Siamese in my local area I would often have a good idea as keep an eye on local ads, know quite a few breeders local to me and we share info on dodgy kitten enquiries and pass on positive enquiries if we cant help to each other etc so are usually aware of roughly what kittens we all have or are expecting. I also know who are the despicables in my area who breed from unregistered cats and let them leave early as see their ads. 

I also hear a lot from people coming to view my kittens who may have got a previous kitten from someone else or have been to see other litters. 

It was a long shot but I thought worth a try in the public arena as lots of BSH breeders/owners on here and don't want to cause any issues with any official complaint so maybe best we leave it now and if anyone has any info just pm me. 

Lisa.

Lisa.


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

I give up. Feel like I've wasted my breath, but am at least v relieved that there's a poorly cat who now has a chance of a decent future.


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## nicolaa123 (Mar 30, 2012)

As much as I hold no faith in the RSPCA..if they are ready to act and at the very least can make this awful woman's day a bad day..then the rest can be taken care of by emailing every forum, site basically anywhere she could advertise to put so much heat on her she will stop as no one will take her kittens.

I hope beyond all hope she is shut down..maybe when we know the outcome of the RSPCA visit..if not successful we can start a campaign starting with local council, environmental health, newspapers etc..enough heat will bring her down..just hopefully any cats she has will be able to be saved also..


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## Cheryl89 (Jun 24, 2013)

muffin789 said:


> I give up. Feel like I've wasted my breath, but am at least v relieved that there's a poorly cat who now has a chance of a decent future.


Hun don't feel like you've wasted your breath  

I'm so relieved too, yay. Xx


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> if not successful *we* can start a campaign starting with local council


Who exactly do you mean by 'we'. If you mean a witch hunt via public forum then that's a VERY bad idea. Much as it sounds dreadful this has nothing to do with anyone reacting to hearsay. Whoever has actually seen this with their own eyes has cause to report what they've seen to every possible authority. Unless the RSPCA choose to bring a prosecution AND that case results in a ban on keeping animals then there will be no long term gain. The council is a different story. If they deem her to be breeding as a business then they will be able to act. They will require her to get planning permission and then check her regularly. The costs involved will soon wipe out any perceived profit and if money is her motive it won't be worth her while.


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## nicolaa123 (Mar 30, 2012)

havoc said:


> Who exactly do you mean by 'we'. If you mean a witch hunt via public forum then that's a VERY bad idea. Much as it sounds dreadful this has nothing to do with anyone reacting to hearsay. Whoever has actually seen this with their own eyes has cause to report what they've seen to every possible authority. Unless the RSPCA choose to bring a prosecution AND that case results in a ban on keeping animals then there will be no long term gain. The council is a different story. If they deem her to be breeding as a business then they will be able to act. They will require her to get planning permission and then check her regularly. The costs involved will soon wipe out any perceived profit and if money is her motive it won't be worth her while.


Maybe I worded it incorrectly, I certainly did not mean a witch hunt..I do think in my opinion that it is better left to the authorities to investigate and take appropriate action rather than an "internal" investigation. If the photos are anything to go by then there is a case for neglect.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> ..not even a back yard some kind of kitten farm looks like,arnt their hay bales selling or something?


Is this the person that's was selling fever coat kitten and had Tabby BSH that didnt look britsh ??


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Just to say thanks to all for the input etc. 

There has now been a completely positive outcome regarding the situation with the two 7 month old kittens.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

lisajjl1 said:


> Just to say thanks to all for the input etc.
> 
> There has now been a completely positive outcome to this and the situation regarding the two 7 month old kittens is now resolved.


That's great news Lisa... can you give us any more info?

Just being nosey and completely understand if you would rather not!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Yes please share if you can ... Pleased there has Been a good outcome


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I will let Lisa update more but will just say the breeder was delighted to know about this before her kittens left today, i also spoke to the breeder this morning where she thanked everybody for tracking her down to warn her.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

catcoonz said:


> breeder was delighted to know about this before her kittens left today


God that was close Lisa and CC x


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

It was very close, too close for my liking but Lisa has worked very hard tracking the breeder down.

Thankyou Lisa for all your hard work, dare i say the cow who was expecting these 2 kittens isnt very happy and tried all ways to get those 2 cats, shame she didnt try very hard to keep the cats she already owner.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Phew ... So please the two didnt go ... Well done to those involved ... Wonderful


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> It was very close, too close for my liking but Lisa has worked very hard tracking the breeder down.


I'm so pleased she managed to do so. I obviously don't know how she did it but I would use this opportunity to suggest every breeder joins their breed club. Mine certainly is very good at giving out heads up warnings when there's someone like this after kittens for breeding.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Has anyone alerted the breed clubs to this BYB? What surprises me is that Russians are involved - they are a relatively small breed, less than 400 registered in 2012 compared to BSH with over 5,000 - more than 10 times as many.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I would hope someone with knowledge has alerted breed club secs. I know 'heads up' warnings can be very useful. With the rarer breeds hopefully the breeders talk to each other anyway and word will spread.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> dare i say the cow who was expecting these 2 kittens isnt very happy and tried all ways to get those 2 cats


I really do pride myself on being quite level headed and more impartial than many .......................... so why am I grinning from ear to ear at this


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

That's brilliant news, well done everyone. That's effectively 3 babies saved so far from this 'person' and God knows how many kittens would have come from them.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> I would hope someone with knowledge has alerted breed club secs. I know 'heads up' warnings can be very useful. With the rarer breeds hopefully the breeders talk to each other anyway and word will spread.


They can only talk to each other if they know.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Notifying the breed clubs is a super idea.... Also has the authorities been told about this cow bag .. Need to shut her down


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Is this the person that's was selling fever coat kitten and had Tabby BSH that didnt look britsh ??


yes


havoc said:


> I would hope someone with knowledge has alerted breed club secs. I know 'heads up' warnings can be very useful. With the rarer breeds hopefully the breeders talk to each other anyway and word will spread.


You know something similar has happened today,there is a well known breeder who has done fantastic on the bench,breeder sold a girl to another breeder and this cat is now up on pet4homes for sale,lots of people have seen this cat for sale as she stands out cause of the breeders prefix..now the breeder has said thanx to everyone for letting her know this cat is been sold on.

So the breeding world is a very small one so to bite the hand that feeds you isnt a good idea.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> yes
> 
> You know something similar has happened today,there is a well known breeder who has done fantastic on the bench,breeder sold a girl to another breeder and this cat is now up on pet4homes for sale,lots of people have seen this cat for sale as she stands out cause of the breeders prefix..now the breeder has said thanx to everyone for letting her know this cat is been sold on.
> 
> So the breeding world is a very small one so doing to bite the hand that feeds you isnt a good idea.


It's a very small world ... It nice to know there are eyes and ears when it comes to things like this..


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## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

Just in the nick of time! Thank goodness these two kittens have been spared the same fate as that other poor cat thanks to the quick thinking of kind pf members


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

havoc said:


> I'm so pleased she managed to do so. I obviously don't know how she did it but I would use this opportunity to suggest every breeder joins their breed club. Mine certainly is very good at giving out heads up warnings when there's someone like this after kittens for breeding.


You don't know how true this is!!!!

I was helped by a wonderful person at my own breed club, Siamese!, who suggested a short list of possible BSH breeders that would fit the bill within hours of me asking, then cross referenced info with me over the phone on what I had found, even advised me fantastically on how to best proceed with my contact with the breeder when it became apparent I had actually likely found them. Demonstrated detective skills that Scotland Yard would be proud of!

If you choose wisely and join a supportive club it doesn't just give you the heads up in your own breed, it also opens up a huge font of knowledge and support in times of stress and access to fantastic people. 

Big, big thank you catcoonz for backing up my facts for me....have had another call myself to say thanks again today and we are going to stay in touch which is really nice.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

You done all the hard work Lisa, you deserve all the credit here, i only confirmed on the phone. xxx


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Well done Lisa and CC


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Cat clubs, in my past experience, have ALWAYS some up trumps when needed.

Going back a couple of decades, I saw a middle-aged Russian Blue neutered male cat for sale in a horrible pet shop (the kind that sold puppies from Welsh farms, and also Persian kittens from farms).

I asked about him, was shown his pedigree - quickly memorised his prefix, got online when I got home and within 2 hours of my post, someone from the Russian Blue Breeders Association had gone and got him out, and installed him in a luxury cattery. His original breeder had been found (now living in Cornwall) and she was arranging to come and get him.

Not to mention when I had a run-in with a kittens buyer who bought one of my kittens, and returned it after two weeks as not suitable for breeding (her receipt said it was sold as pet only). I did some digging and she was already well known to the SCC, and a serial rehomer - unfortunately I think she is still active in another breed and thinks nothing of buying and passing on cats without any conscience.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Id love to see this byb's face when she found out she wasnt getting these two girls.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Well done Lisa and CC - what a fantastic outcome it has made my day


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Id love to see this byb's face when she found out she wasnt getting these two girls.


I bet she had a right tantrum, hope none of her other cats got a foot start because of it. People like that don't deserve animals.


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

Glad too read these two kittys are not ending up with the byb.

I did say I would contact the breed club at the start of the thread, but was told no.....


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Staysee said:


> Glad too read these two kittys are not ending up with the byb.
> 
> I did say I would contact the breed club at the start of the thread, but was told no.....


You wasnt told no,i said it might be pointless if they were buying from other dodgy/like minded breeders who wouldnt care about breed clubs rules or ethics but you wasnt told not to.You could have.Anything was worth a shot and my point was only a scenario.

As its unfolded it turns out its worked so alls well and ends well.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I say yes, though we have no idea if the breeder she was attempting to buy from belonged to a cat club of any kind, breed or area. It will have to be tactfully phrased however.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I did say I would contact the breed club at the start of the thread, but was told no.....


If you had direct and personal knowledge then there is nothing to stop you contacting anyone you choose. If you didn't then you are best off staying out of it unless you are experienced in how these sort of things need to be dealt with. Such matters require delicate handling. Passing on hearsay could land someone in big trouble.


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