# Pregnancy Ultrasound Accuracy?



## PhoebeWestie (May 15, 2012)

Hi,

I am looking for advice, help, anything hopeful really.

My westie (Phoebe) was mated Jan 2011 and unfortunatley she had one still born pup.
We have given it a year and tried her again this year, Mated 6/4/12 and 8/4/12, two really good mates both with lengthy ties. 
However after last years ordeal the vet wanted to ultrasound her and see how things were progressing. She was scanned at 3 weeks and 2 days - vet couldnt see anything and said a re-scan in two week. We have been this morning 5 weeks and 2 days and she couldnt see anything again. 
Phoebe has had morning sickness and all the same signs as last year. They weighed her at the vets 2 weeks ago and was 7.5kg and today is 8kg, thats a lot to put on in 2 weeks i think, she hasnt eaten any differently.

So my question is how accurate is an ultrasound?
Am I hoping shes still pregnant or could she actually be?

All help would be much appreciated thank you.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

All i can say is when i have had my girls scanned and they have told me that they couldn't find any puppies we haven't had any but having said that everytime when i have been sure they were pregnant i haven't had them scanned.So they have only confirmed my doubts rather then any numbers.


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## PhoebeWestie (May 15, 2012)

I do think she is as she is acting the same as last time. Could it be that pups could hide twice for the scan? 
How common in your experience is it to have two good ties and pregnancy not be present?
Maybe I need to now think she's not and move on.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Unlike humans you cannot do a pregnancy test based on progesterone in dogs as during the cycle progesterone is present if the bitch is pregnant or not. Relaxin on the otherhand is specific to pregnancy in dogs so therefore accurate. There is usually detectable levels of relaxin by day 21/28 post mating. They do reccomend though that blood should be taken on day 28 to ake sure. From what you say she is past that so you could do a relaxin pregnancy test.


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## Oenoke (Oct 17, 2009)

3 weeks 2 days would have been too early to see puppies especially if she hadn't ovulated until after the mating. You should have seen something at 5 weeks and 2 days though. I had a relaxin blood test done at 24 days after 1st mating that confirmed pregnancy, then scanned 31 days and 38 days and saw 4 puppies both times, she went on to have 4 puppies at day 60 from 1st mating.


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## PhoebeWestie (May 15, 2012)

Thank you for your advice and suggestions. 
I think I'll just try and relax and wait for nothing to happen, Maybe I was clutching at straws and should face facts that her mating hasnt worked this time. Disappointed but Thank you again.


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## bluegirl (May 7, 2012)

I've found that if pregnant my girls have a discharge from their bits from about 4 weeks post mating. It looks like egg white and it dribbles from the vulva. Once I've seen that I know for sure they are pregnant.

As for US scans at vets, yes you should see pups if its the right time, but as to how good they are at getting the right number I'd have to say sheep scanners are much more accurate.

I was told my girl was pregnant, I saw the pups, the vet counted at least 4, so off I went expecting a normal sized litter. She delivered 11 pups altogether, I thought she'd finished whelping when she had a good rest after delivering 6, only for her to pop another one out about an hour later followed by another 5 over the course of the day. So I'm happy for them to confirm pregnancy but that's it.


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## 2parrots (May 15, 2012)

how do u find out who has a sheep scanner x


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## PhoebeWestie (May 15, 2012)

Yes i remember the egg white dribble from last year but even then she didnt get that until a good 7/8 weeks. 

I'll hang in there trying to think shes not to ease disappointment. I wasnt fussed about numbers, we just needed to know she was pregnant and if they could see if there was more than one (after last year *). I am secretly hoping that maybe there are a couple hiding in there somewhere. 

* Last year her one stillborn pup was HUGE and maybe her passing that has damaged her insides and made her infertile.


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## bluegirl (May 7, 2012)

If she's not pregnant I'd be wondering firstly if you had the best dates for her, especially as last mating only produced one pup (unfortunately stillborn) and this time she may not have caught.


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## PhoebeWestie (May 15, 2012)

Oh really?! I hadn't even thought of that. Both times she's been mated have been days 10 and 12, I'm also 100% on her season dates as I'm so desperate to breed her (which sounds bad but true). I keep thinking how unlucky can she be to have a stillborn and two great ties and nothing again. 

Maybe we will have one more go on her next season. She would make a fantastic mum. 

Do bitches bodies take a while to get back to normal after whelping? I've read how some people breed their bitches almost every season so I'm thinking they bounce back pretty quick.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

PhoebeWestie said:


> Oh really?! I hadn't even thought of that. Both times she's been mated have been days 10 and 12, I'm also 100% on her season dates as I'm so desperate to breed her (which sounds bad but true). I keep thinking how unlucky can she be to have a stillborn and two great ties and nothing again.
> 
> Maybe we will have one more go on her next season. She would make a fantastic mum.


It's unwise to "assume" dates when the bitch will be ready - I've known bitches catch at 3/4 days into their season, and the other extreme of 21 + days - following on from your first attempt, I would have pre-mated her the second time a good stud owner would likely know this, even if they weren't highly experienced, and should be able to advise you accordingly.

Why are you so "desperate" to have a litter from her? You really have absolutely NO idea whether she will make a good mum or not until the pups are here - that can be too late - don't be fooled into thinking differently.

My eldest bitch had two litters - everything was flawless in the extreme - possibly too much so because I was spoilt. This was a bitch who "smiled" throughout both litters even when they had a full set of teeth - we had to race to stop her cleaning up after the pups at gone 8 weeks.

A few years later, I had a litter from her eldest daughter - unbelievably, even more easy going, gentle and intuitive than her mother (I truly didn't think it possible).

She HATED it - she completely freaked out whilst in labour and wouldn't have the babies anywhere near her until she delivered her 6th pup - she wouldn't clean up after them and she was off them at 4 weeks and back to her pre-pregnancy condition by 12 weeks.

Once she got over the shock of it all, she "did what needed to be done" in terms of feeding and stimulating the pups to toilet, but there was no way she was the poor little mites up - really kept us on our toes. She is now neutered.

Mine was a a bit of a rude awakening after my first two litters, but it certainly wasn't the end of the world, she gave me a lovely litter and it wasn't unmanageable, just something of a change to previously.

There are however members on here who have had mums attack their babies, reject them, and mums have died during or after giving birth, both naturally and after c-sections - bitches get mastitis and eclampsia some weeks after giving birth, both of which can be very nasty and potentially fatal.



PhoebeWestie said:


> Do bitches bodies take a while to get back to normal after whelping? I've read how some people breed their bitches almost every season so I'm thinking they bounce back pretty quick.


Don't even go there. I was truly shocked how much raising an average sied litter took out of my eldest (the good mother) - it took very little out of her daughter (the OK mother) - they need time to recover - and after much consideration and being told these types of bitches are good mothers the second time, I chose not to do it - it clearly wasn't something with which she had been over-enamoured the first time around, so why do it again?

Different parts of the world do have differing views on this subject - generally, mostly in the UK, it's not the best idea - if a bitch only has seasons every 12 to 18 months, then maybe yes - but if they are cycling every 5/6/7 months, then nope, I wouldn't even go there, I waited to a third season to do a mating with my eldest girl, she probably would have been a week before 12 months if we had mated her on the second season.

ETA - I don't know what health-tests, if any, are required for the breed - if there are some, have they been done on both potential parents?


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

2parrots said:


> how do u find out who has a sheep scanner x


where do you live? there's a list on here somewhere of sheep scanners and the area they are in.


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## chaka (Feb 19, 2012)

There is someone in Shropshire who scans, she is not a sheep scanner, she just does dogs as far as I am aware and she is very good and very accurate. I would really recommend her to anyone who is prepared to travel a bit. My daughter who is a vet came with me when I had my bitch scanned and she couldn't believe how clear the scan was and how easily you could see the pups, said she had never seen one so accurate.


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## magrat (Nov 18, 2007)

i use the lady in Shropshire (by Stoke Heath prison) and she has always been 100% accurate with dates and numbers, i have my girls scanned for peace of mind, and the lady in question will even tell you which mating the bitch took from


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## 2parrots (May 15, 2012)

i am in skegness lincolnshire. wish i lived near market drayton still now so i could use the lady at stoke heath!! i went to the grove school and loved the discos at stoke heath xxx


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

2parrots said:


> i am in skegness lincolnshire. wish i lived near market drayton still now so i could use the lady at stoke heath!! i went to the grove school and loved the discos at stoke heath xxx


are you on FB?


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## 2parrots (May 15, 2012)

hi, yes i am on fb, easiest way to fine me is Buttons webster, thats my choc labs page!! thanks tracy x


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## Lol Price (May 19, 2012)

magrat said:


> i use the lady in Shropshire (by Stoke Heath prison) and she has always been 100% accurate with dates and numbers, i have my girls scanned for peace of mind, and the lady in question will even tell you which mating the bitch took from


:001_

Could you let me have a telephone contact for the scaning lady in stoke heath please.


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## Lol Price (May 19, 2012)

Hi again, not on fb can u email it to me please, would be very grateful.


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## chaka (Feb 19, 2012)

I've messaged you the number in case you haven't already received it.


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