# Desperate - Burmese cat madness!



## rebelhel (Apr 12, 2009)

Hi there,

I'm hoping for some help or advice. My OH and I took on 2 Burmese cats in April 2009 - Charlie (male) and Smudge (female), aged 9. I'd been pestering him to let us have cats for 7 years, having always had them before I met him.

We got them from Cat Protection, but had very little background info, knew very little about Burmese, and certainly had no idea of the problems we were letting ourselves in for. All we know is that they lived with the same couple from kittenhood, and that the couple regretfully let them go when they had a baby, as Smudge started weeing in the house. We assume they're siblings, but don't even know that for sure.

Since we got them, it's been an on-going struggle, and it's getting worse, not better. There are so many problems it's hard to summarise them, but they include spraying (every room in the house, almost daily), wee puddles indoors, scratching, refusing food, pooing on the floor, fighting each other, demanding attention and constant calling and demands for attention. When the cats are behaving normally, they are lovely - very affectionate and giving - but the downs are winning over the ups by a long way!

They both also have intermittent 'rippling skin disorder' which has it's own set of associated bizarre mad behaviour!

We're basically at the end of our tether and I'm sick of finding wee and spray in new places, especially as I'm trying to run a complementary therapy clinic from the house! The cats are shut out of almost every room in the house now. We've had Feliways plugged in since we got them and they get lots of attention (not on demand!) and play, and I've been trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) to get them onto 'proper' wet food since we got them. Smudge has been given Amytriptaline by the vet who said she was one of the most highly strung cats she'd seen - but I hated the effect it had on her and really don't want to medicate the cats. 

What else can we try? Can anyone recommend a behavioural person in Essex or Suffolk? We are one step away from giving up but have hung on in there because we love the cats and don't want to give up on them. 

Thanks for reading this far - you've earned yourself a cuppa!!

ANY comments or advice gratefully accepted


----------



## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

rebelhel said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I'm hoping for some help or advice. My OH and I took on 2 Burmese cats in April 2009 - Charlie (male) and Smudge (female), aged 9. I'd been pestering him to let us have cats for 7 years, having always had them before I met him.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Firstly it might be worth speaking to the cat rescue you got them from and see if you can get any further info on the cats,often people will say they are letting a cat go because of a new baby but you are only getting half the story.

I assume at the age of 9 they are both neuters? Is there anyway you could put up a cat house and run in your garden.Something to give them space to run outside or cat proof your garden so they aren't indoors all the time. They are a very strong and intelligent breed and need lots of stimulus. Toys like balls where they can forage food from, climbing equipment to stop scratching etc.

Have they both got their own trays? also try changing the litter, it could be they just don't like the litter you use but it does sound like they are both really stressed out. You could try scullcap and valerian tablets which is more of a natural remedy to stress. Rescue remedy in their water bowls. Your vet should be able to put you in touch with a animal behavioural specialist. Well done for sticking in there with these two. They are a wonderful breed,we have one ourselves and she can be a bit of a madam sometimes.

One more thought, could you try separating them into different rooms and see how they react. I think 9 years old is a bit old for them to be rehomed really but it sounds like you are trying so hard to keep them. There are a few Burmese breeders on here who might be able to give you an insight into the breed and characteristics. I think the more you know about the breed the more you will be able to settle them in.

Have you got any pics of them for us to see?

I hope you get them sorted.

Izzie


----------



## rebelhel (Apr 12, 2009)

Hi there Izzie,

Thanks so much for taking the time to read my essay and reply!

They are both allowed outside, but much prefer it when we are around to go outside with them. I do agree that we need more information about their breed, and the main reason we are sticking with it is because we feel sure that some of the problems are to do with our ignorance as much as anything else. They've got 3 climbing frames, but prefer to destroy a rug we have!

Although I've had cats before, this has in no way prepared me for these two! They are a law unto themselves. I also agree that 9 is old to rehome them and I do worry that they'll never settle. I feel desperately sorry for their previous owners, but also angry that they gave us so little info to go on - if they wanted them to be happy it would've helped hugely to know what food they eat, what their routine was, what skills they've got etc etc. 

I've tried Rescue Remedy to no avail, but will happily try the skullcap or valerian if there's an alternative to pilling - Smudge had to have injections rather than pills at the vets as she got so stressed about being 'pilled' (she came to us with a bladder infection). I'm sure you're right about the litter tray issue - they have 2 but only use 1, and Charlie cries a lot before using it, so I'll try changing the litter.

I'm going to ring the vets about a behavioural person and in the meantime any more advice will be hugely appreciated!! At the end of the day, it may end up being apparent that we may not be the right people with the right home for them to be happy - and I'm fine with that - but I need to look at all the options first to see if this is the case.


----------



## kittykat (Nov 2, 2007)

Again, I would contact cats protection as they would most likely know of a behaviourist or just offer some advice which they should of done in the beginning.


----------



## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

rebelhel said:


> Hi there Izzie,
> 
> Thanks so much for taking the time to read my essay and reply!
> 
> ...


Hi,

I beleive scullcap and valerian is available in liquid form, perhaps you can syringe it down her. I do wonder if she has had some trauma with her previous owner to make her like this. I had a Norwegian forest cat boy a few years back and he had never been socialised and had a fear of carriers. He was eight months old when we got him and in the end I had to admit defeat, he nearly took my little boys eye out! There is always a reason for their behaviour, it is so sad for these cats but at least they have had a second chance with you.

Get Charlie checked out because the fact he cries before using the tray makes me think he has a water infection that would also explain him weeing in other places other than the tray. I would try them with a basic food too and avoid too much change, a cat who is hungry will eat no matter what. If you offer too much choice they get faddy. You could also try them with a bit of raw food, bit of raw chicken or raw rabbit which might get them eating. The previous owners should have supplied the cat protections league with a diet sheet and a general idea about their temperament and behavioural issues, maybe they were afraid they weren't going to take them on if they had too many issues. The cats welfare should have taken priority over that worry really.

I really hope it works out for you. Hopefully one of the Burmese breeders will be along shortly to give you some advice. Its a shame we don't know where they originated from really.Each breeder knows their own lines well and maybe able to advise you better.

What colour are they just out of interest?

Izzie


----------



## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

Izzie's advice is very sound. I think you should contact one of the breed clubs (Burmese Cat Club UK) and see if they can offer any further help.

There are some good interactive toys on here Interactive Toyz : Pinky Pawz - Simply ... the cats whiskers!, Pinky Pawz - Simply ... the cats whiskers! which may keep them occupied

It would be interesting to see how they would react if you took Izzie's suggestion of separating them into different rooms - I wonder if they just wind each other up!

I know you are not too keen to medicate but this may be of interest
Zylkene Capsules Natural Stress Relief For Dog

Please keep us advised of how things go.

Good luck


----------



## rebelhel (Apr 12, 2009)

Hi Izzie and Kitty Kat,

Thanks so much for your thoughts, advice and comments. It helps so much just to communicate with someone about this, even on-line! My OH and I have driven each other mad trying to find answers!

I really hope a breeder has some insights too. I'll get Charlie to the vets to investigate his bladder and look into getting some valerian and skullcap. 

I am really annoyed with the lack of info we had, and do wonder whether the previous owners were being 'economic' with the truth to get the cats rehomed, as I feel fairly sure that a lot of these issues stem more from the previous 9 years than from the last 5 months. It may even be simply that the cats were spoilt rotten and then completely traumatised by the new arrival in their lives, and they've still not got over that - who knows! CPL got so fed up with me ringing them the first few weeks as the cats cried all night and wouldn't eat, that I gave up ringing them. I even asked them to contact the old owners to get more info, but they didn't like to 'upset them' and just told us to 'give it time'... I think 5 months is long enough!!

Anyway, they are a delight when they're not causing problems, so it's not all doom and gloom! Charlie is a lilac grey, and Smudge is a chocolate tortie. I'll try and post some pictures of them if I can work out how to!!


----------



## rebelhel (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks ChinaBlue,

You guys are great!! Thanks for taking the time to find links and info for me. I will look at them all, and get in touch with the Burmese Cat Club. Charlie and Smudge do have several toys, but I think they're so intelligent that they get bored with them really quickly, so maybe the answer is to have a big store of interactive toys so I can keep varying them. 

I thought of clicker training them, but Smudge is totally unmotivated by food or treats, so I may have to find another way for her! Charlie knows how to sit, but we haven't been very succesful with trying to teach him to fetch! I think he is clicker trainable though, and I'm sure some of his spraying is through boredom or annoyance, not just insecurity, as this morning he sprayed the front door after my OH left for work even though he had given him loads of attention (maybe that's where he went wrong).

Anyway, enough of me! I'll definitely keep you all posted.

Thanks again,

Helen


----------



## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

Just a though - do you have any local cats, particularly toms, visiting your garden - they may be spraying in and around your front door and if Charlie can smell it then he will be trying to over mark it with his scent and so it goes on.....


----------



## kittykat (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm glad you have been given some good advice and I agree that Cats Protection were either not being truthful with you or if thats the reason the original owners gave them up, it mads me so mad for you! lol

They sound adorable & can't wait to see some pics of them, well done for rescuing them!


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Gosh this is interesting because recently on another group we've have a discussion about pedigree rescues and people on there have been talking about how breed rescues need to deal with specific breeds because the general rescues don't understand their needs. I was cynical but this rather illustrates the point.

Burmese are demanding people cats, wanting to be with you all the time. I had them for about 15 years before finally losing the last of the line, then last year I bought in two kittens to start again, and I have to say that even in that time I had forgotten just what young Burmese can be like. The girl has kittens at the moment and she is never happy, when she's with the kittens she wants to be out of the pen, when she's out of the pen she follows me around wailing because she isn't in with the kittens. The boy (who wows everyone at shows with his temperament) wants constant attention when he is in the house unless he is asleep. He wants to sit on my lap all the time and if he isn't doing that then he wants to jump up to the nearest window (including getting outside the window to sit on the outside window lege - fortunately he always comes back in!). Every time he jumps up in the office he knocks piles of papers flying. He would really like to sleep cuddled up to me very close next to my face but I can't often cope with that. All this is perfectly normal Burmese behaviour. I do recall a buyer calling me once almost in tears about a kitten I sold her saying he was in the habit of launching himself on her and she was scared of him. My first girl had the same problem and it could be painful! In his case, letting him out solved the problem.

I find myself just wondering if it is possible that the person who originally surrendered the cats was breeding unregistered and you actually have an ex stud there? Tardak is supposed to reduce the urge to spray after neutering but that is probably a long shot. Bladder infection or wrong litter are more likely.

Somehwere out there may be the breeder who may be very keen to help -may I post these details on a Burmese list?

Liz


----------



## rebelhel (Apr 12, 2009)

lizward said:


> Gosh this is interesting because recently on another group we've have a discussion about pedigree rescues and people on there have been talking about how breed rescues need to deal with specific breeds because the general rescues don't understand their needs. I was cynical but this rather illustrates the point.
> 
> Burmese are demanding people cats, wanting to be with you all the time. I had them for about 15 years before finally losing the last of the line, then last year I bought in two kittens to start again, and I have to say that even in that time I had forgotten just what young Burmese can be like. The girl has kittens at the moment and she is never happy, when she's with the kittens she wants to be out of the pen, when she's out of the pen she follows me around wailing because she isn't in with the kittens. The boy (who wows everyone at shows with his temperament) wants constant attention when he is in the house unless he is asleep. He wants to sit on my lap all the time and if he isn't doing that then he wants to jump up to the nearest window (including getting outside the window to sit on the outside window lege - fortunately he always comes back in!). Every time he jumps up in the office he knocks piles of papers flying. He would really like to sleep cuddled up to me very close next to my face but I can't often cope with that. All this is perfectly normal Burmese behaviour. I do recall a buyer calling me once almost in tears about a kitten I sold her saying he was in the habit of launching himself on her and she was scared of him. My first girl had the same problem and it could be painful! In his case, letting him out solved the problem.
> 
> ...


Hi Liz,

Thankyou so much for your comments - I would really appreciate it if you could post the details on a Burmese list as I would love to get more info or help - I have no certificates for either cat as the original owners didn't give them to CPL, and CPL were reluctant to ask for them. It's a long shot, but you never know - I didn't expect to get all this advice after all!!

Having had our experience, I totally agree about rehoming pedigrees being better left to the specialists, as CPL admitted not knowing much about the breed, and we basd our decision to rehome them on the little info we were given, and what I managed to read from books and the internet - none of which prepared me for the problems we've had.

It is interesting to hear that it is normal for Burmese to want to be with people all of the time - this may be part of our problem, as it is impossible for me at times to work from home with them pestering me ALL of the time, so I end up playing with them until they're worn out, and then shutting myself away somewhere whilst they sleep.

Charlie also hates shut doors and sprays more when he can't get in rooms, which creates a vicious cycle as we end up shutting him out of more rooms. By 8am this morning, he had already managed to spray 3 times in 3 different places - with no discernible reason whatsoever. I never catch him in the act, but it usually preceeded by loud calling - almost a warning! It is hard to discipline him when I don't see it happen, and also there are times when I can't be sure which cat is doing what! Oh the joys!!! It is also possible that it is related to next doors cats, as they don't seem to be great 'boundary' respectors.

Anyway, on the upside, I've emailed a cat behavioural lady (although not necessarily a Burmese cat expert), so help may be at hand before the cats either end up shut out of every room, or I give in and let the house smell like a toilet...


----------



## oscarthecat (Oct 1, 2008)

Just another suggestion for destressing - zylkene - which they will most likely happily eat.

ZYLKENE - Stress in Dogs and Cats - A Safe, Natural, New Treatment


----------



## Bengal Heaven or Hell (Sep 18, 2008)

Did you solve the problems ? 
Your story sounds similar to ours.
I can recommend a cat behaviour therapist if you still need one ?


----------



## rebelhel (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks for reminding me I owe everyone an update, Bengal Heaven or Hell... well, I'm very sorry to report that after several discussions with various people, and trying many of the things people on here suggested, we eventually came to the very reluctant decision to rehome Charlie and Smudge and they left us one week ago.

Obviously I'm still very upset about this, but I feel sure we've made the right decision, and also that if the original owners had gone about getting Charlie and Smudge rehomed properly in the first place, then neither the cats or ourselves would have ever had to go through the last 6 months - and they wouldn't now be in their 3rd home.

The Burmese Cat Club and various associated people have been tremendous in their advice and support, and it is thanks to them that Charlie and Smudge are now hopefully in their last 'forever' home. 

They advertised the cats for us after it became apparent that our environment and our lifestyle routine were just not suitable for cats that had already displayed signs of stress and trauma - and there was no way around this. As we became more aware of the reasons behind the spraying etc, we realised that the cats should never have come to us in the first place as they had a constant need to assert their territorial rights because of all the other cats around and other wildlife that comes into the garden - as we back onto fields there is no way around this - monkjack deer can jump surprisingly high and foxes always find a way through. 

The cats needed constant reassurance and love to counteract the constant territorial issues, and what they didn't need was to live in a house where strangers are in and out quite often, and where I work some evenings etc (I run a business from home). Unfortunately, neither the CPL where we got them or us, knew any of these things.

Anyway, Charlie and Smudge have gone to live with a lovely lady with 32 years experience of Burmese. She is retired, so can give them lots of time, and has a very 'safe' garden. So far the cats seem to be settling in and she is keeping us updated, so hopefully we'll always have that connection.

It's a sad tale and serves as a lesson to anyone rehoming Burmese cats to go through the proper channels - I wouldn't have known about that without this forum, so thankyou! On the positive side however, we spent 6 months 'fostering' two beautiful cats and I'm so glad we had the experience - we've learnt some lessons from it and know what we would have to change if we ever wanted Burmese in the future. Best news of all is that it hasn't put my OH off - he loved them to bits and in time we'll get more cats... this has been a case of 'if you love something, you have to let it go'.

Sorry for the essay if you've read this far!


----------



## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi,

Im so sorry you had to rehome them in the end. But you have definitely done the best thing for these cats. I think perhaps if you had got them younger it would have been an entirely different outcome.I just feel at their age it was a tall order to expect them to fit into a new home with stress issues etc.

Hopefully it won't be too long before you can have another cat or cats and it will be a better experience for you all.

Izzie


----------



## kittykat (Nov 2, 2007)

Hi, I think you done the right thing by you and the cats. It sounds like they are settling in their new home already.

I hope it hasnt put you off having cats, I wouldnt blame you! lol


----------

