# Heart Hurts



## First timer (Nov 2, 2010)

Im devastated, havent been able to bring myself to post but have to accept and get on with it so thought id take first step and tell you x

The largest first born pup has only one eye. Im so so upset for her. Their eyes had all opened at 1 week old and one of hers seemed slanted and not open wide. Thought nothing of it at first just figured she had a few more weeks for it to open properly. They are 2 weeks now and the eye only opens at the inner corner and there is nothing inside. My heart hurts like hell...the one most beautiful feature of a Bichon Frise is their large black eyes in startling white fur.

I cant stop crying when i look at her. My husband says its fine and she'll cope well and has insisted we keep her even though we had no intention of keeping any - its hard enough with the two we have now. So shes going to be staying with us. I have an appointment at the vet tomorrow just want him to confirm theres no infection or anything worse gone on in there, not expecting much as its clean inside ...just empty.


crying typing this its awfull


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm sorry ... i don't know what to say but hugs coming your way


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

It is awful and must have been a shock, but it also doesnt mean that your pup cant have a happy and full life. Many dogs who are totally blind have full lives,they tend to cope much better than we do and rely on their sense of smell and hearing which is much much more acute than ours is. Hopefully her sight is ok in the other eye and if she has no other problems there should be no reason for her to have a full happy life. Keep us posted as to what the vet says.


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Aww bless you,i can read your pain x
Hopefully the vet will give you loads of advise and stuff.
Your pup will know know different,and will grow up not knowing it is different.im sure it will lead a good life.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear this.
Why did you breed if you had no intention of keeping one?
And I have to agree with your husband - you should keep her. 
It's all part of breeding.


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

Firstly Hi and welcome to the forum.

So sorry 2 hear this, but like others have said, they adapt very well 2 disability and she will lead a near as normal life, don't know much about your breed, or whether it is down 2 genetics or just plain bad luck, but I wish u well wiv ya pups


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

Aww thats so sad to hear....i hope all goes well at the vets. She will be a special girl tho & i`m sure she will be lavished with affection & have a great doggi life with you.

You obviously love your dogs & could not have done anything to prevent this...the fact that you are so upset over this & are going to keep her speaks volumes x She is going to be a lucky girl to have you


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

It is tragic, but all I wanted to say was: Well done you and your partner for keeping him. So many breeders I am sorry to say would have had him pts because he wasn't saleable. You are doing the right thing and he will be fine.


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## Sophiekins (Oct 20, 2009)

So very sorry to hear this (hugs). A dog with one eye can go on to lead a perfectly happy life, and she herself won't know about her little disability, spoil her rotten!


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

aw poor little puppy there is a condition called Microphthalmia where the eye dosent develop properly someone i know had a little rescue xbreed with the condition he lived a perfectly happy life if the vet says it could be this condition please ensure that all the puppies and their sire and dam are neutered because the condition can be genetic.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

I am very sorry for the poor pup and for your heartache - while I agree in principle with the others you should keep her - if you are struggling to cope with two - how on earth will you cope with another one (disability or otherwise) - which 

(sorry) begs the question if it is so hard with two of them (so you add a litter to an already difficult situation) and you had no intention of keeping one - why on earth did you breed in the first place ?


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## First timer (Nov 2, 2010)

Thank you for the kind wishes those that have sent them and thank you for being with me guiding me since day 1 . 

I was going to post a picture of her to share with you and return tomorrow to give you news from the vet .... but you know what...i'm not going to bother.

many on here know my circumstances etc, some dont, yet no matter what you post on these boards you ALWAYS ALWAYS get the people who truly see themselves as being better, wiser, more responsible, maybe even believing they are perfection itself giving their almighty two penneth worth of judgemental cr*p! Sickens me to my stomach to be honest.

well i'll tell you what .....those that may judge or make pathetic self absorbed attempts to make such statements like.....why breed if you had no intention of keeping a pup etc i have just one thing to say to you........

im not a breeder, however not all breeders keep a puppy from every litter anyway but thats by the by basically.......MIND YOUR OWN BLOODY BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

has nothing to do with poor pups eye.

I really want to say Im disgusted but with lots of foul language etc in between however im too much of a lady to say it and wont lower myself to the levels of those "high and mighty wanna be kno alls" who have nothing better to do than critisize.

I will find another forum if i need any advice in future.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

First timer said:


> Thank you for the kind wishes those that have sent them and thank you for being with me guiding me since day 1 .
> 
> I was going to post a picture of her to share with you and return tomorrow to give you news from the vet .... but you know what...i'm not going to bother.
> 
> ...


You didn't ask for advice - you explained about the sad circumstances of your girls problem and then stated how you didn't know how you were going to cope with an extra dog.

I NEVER said I was perfect or that I was better than you - but if you don't want people to pick up on the fact that you can't cope with another dog when you've got a litter - then don't post it on a public forum alongside the fact that it's a pup YOU bred.

YOU ARE A BREEDER _ YOU BRED A LITTER _ WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES - THAT MAKES YOU A BREEDER.

AS OR MINDING OUR OWN BL**DY BUSINESS - YOU MADE IT OUR BUSINESS WHEN YOU POSTED IT ON A PUBLIC FORUM.

If you can't cope with the dogs youve got - I would go against the grain of everyone else and say find it a home that CAN COPE.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

you say eyes opened at a week, thats very young for a pups eyes to open. have you taken the pup to the vet?
at the end of the day its a life at stake here .

have to say your attitude stinks, anyone that has a litter is a BREEDER


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> I'm sorry to hear this.
> Why did you breed if you had no intention of keeping one?
> And I have to agree with your husband - you should keep her.
> It's all part of breeding.


I have to agree with Rocco on this one.



First timer said:


> Thank you for the kind wishes those that have sent them and thank you for being with me guiding me since day 1 .
> 
> I was going to post a picture of her to share with you and return tomorrow to give you news from the vet .... but you know what...i'm not going to bother.
> 
> ...


Anyone that breeds a litter is a 'breeder'. You are right not every breeder keeps from a litter - but every ethical breeder would be breeding with the AIM of keeping one! I find it disgusting that you tell people to 'mind their own bloody business' - when most on this forum have given you nothing but sound advice - no one was nasty to you, just asked a simple question - sorry it hit a raw spot. 
and ' high and mighty wanna be know alls' you wasnt saying that while taking their advice!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I can imagine the OP feels under a great deal of stress at this time.. I really hope your pup is ok and there are no other underlying issues.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> I can imagine the OP feels under a great deal of stress at this time.. I really hope your pup is ok and there are no other underlying issues.


I don't think anyone is denying this - and the pup has all my sympathy - I dearly hope it can go on to lead a normal, healthy and happy life - but it must also be recognised that the OP has OPENLY stated they struggle with two - so adding another who may have some special requirements is potentially a recipe for disaster.

The OP didn't ask for advice in this post - they were seemingly more concerned about the loss of the breeds most redeeming features  and didn't know how they would cope with another dog - and in those circumstances, I will continue to go against the grain and say I believe the pup should be found a home with a family that can cope.

Did they ask if others had experienced something similar and how they had coped? did they ask whether anyone knew how this affliction may have been caused? or if the dog will need any special care? NO - they were looking for a thread of "awww I am so sorry"

And YES - of course I am sorry - NOBODY wants to see any dog suffer and NO - I have NO idea how I would cope in a similar situation.

I do know my first action would be to try and find out AS MUCH information as possible on why it has happened,

Is it common? are there other dogs out there with similar afflictions? - what sort of quality of life do they have - is there surgery that can be done to protect the eye socket?

An open, empty socket could surely subject the poor pup to a lifetime of infections and problems which could have a detrimental impact on it's ability to lead a normal life (we are not talking about a blind dog here - as many of us know, they have a remarkable ability to adapt) - but a dog with a missing eye - humans can have false eyes - so maybe dogs can too? and if it can - and has full sight in the other eye, then no doubt it can easily lead a normal, healthy and active life.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

swarthy said:


> I don't think anyone is denying this - and the pup has all my sympathy - I dearly hope it can go on to lead a normal, healthy and happy life - but it must also be recognised that the OP has OPENLY stated they struggle with two - so adding another who may have some special requirements is potentially a recipe for disaster.
> 
> The OP didn't ask for advice in this post - they were seemingly more concerned about the loss of the breeds most redeeming features  and didn't know how they would cope with another dog - and in those circumstances, I will continue to go against the grain and say I believe the pup should be found a home with a family that can cope.
> 
> ...


Hun I put that on cause i feel for the OP..


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## First timer (Nov 2, 2010)

ok firstly, i didnt post for any reaction??? ( someone mentioned i posted for im so sorries )
I posted because i felt those who supported me and guided me through the whelp and birth of the puppies would like to be kept up to date. AND I DIDNT ASK QUESTIONS BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN DOING NOTHING BUT RESEARCHING THIS AND AM TAKING HER TO THE VET FR THOROUGH ADVICE AND TREATMENT!
I wasnt actually thinking anything when i posted about her eye, other than total and utter sadness for her. To be raising a litter for the first time being so so thankful and proud that you have a healthy mum and pups only to discover ( something i didnt even ever imagine ) when i was just beginning to relax from the stress basically wiped me!! First i felt shock at realising, then sadness for pup, then guilt for being too happy wed done so well, then to panic about her future and ended up at just weeping because it all sunk in and hurt like hell.

My attitude doesnt stink just sometimes when posts are made certain people either ask or state things of no relevance other than to try and kick you when youre down.

Those that guided me I thanked, cant understand why statements are made without any knowledge by others that seem only guided by malice or their own nasty agendas.

I can cope because i want to and its my responsibility. I have only had my second dog since after the mating took place so have not had the time i would have liked to get to know him and him us before having another permanent pet. Is that bad???? i think not! I have had my girl for nearly 4 years and am just getting used to having both together. The puppies i would not have terminated no matter what. For me to say its hard enough coping with 2 ...im being honest, now we will have 3 .... it will be harder but we can do it.
What would you say to a new mum of a disabled baby who in distress said she found it hard to cope with the children she already had????? would you tell her to hand her disabled baby to someone YOU think would make better parents???? maybe you'd have a go and say why get pregnant again if you find motherhood hard work!!!!!!!!!!

PATHETIC ....... cannot understand your cruel harsh comments at a time like this at all.

You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Like vultures to prey as soon as i commented on the cruel posts those eager for some "action" to get in on the thread and enjoy the excitment of a bit of conflict are there to give their two penneth. Very SAD.

TC those that helped and thank you again,
bye x


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2010)

OP you have to understand as a breeder its your job to be ready for having to keep as many as the whole litter if needs be. You are finding it hard to cope with 2 dogs but you still bred a litter knowing the risks and the stress that would create.

No one is having a go at you just trying to understand what would make you want to breed if not to keep one back?

swarthy only made a innocent comment which others too have asked but you flew off the handle at her. I understand your stress and fustration you are upset but that's no ones fault. 

How are you going to cope with 3? After you have got the eye sorted (as best can) it maybe wise trying to find a long term home with a trusted friend/family member? 

You also need to ensure its not genetic so you dont re-breed them and have the same. 

Good luck.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

First timer said:


> PATHETIC ....... cannot understand your cruel harsh comments at a time like this at all.
> 
> You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.


Correction - YOU should be ashamed of yourself - I HAVE EVERY SYMPATHY WITH THE DOG.

Read your first post back - basically - you don't want to keep another dog because you can;t cope with the two you have and never intended to keep anything in the first place - YOUR WORDS - NOT MINE. Nothing about "not getting to know him" - it's a DOG - not a new lover.

You have a litter of unhealth-tested pups from an unregistered sire that COULD have been prevented or stopped - I have every sympathy with the dog - I have NO sympathy when your comments are around its LOOKS and the fact you don't want to keep another dog on top of the two you already have - one who has already had how many homes? 

My concern is for the WELFARE OF THE DOG ONLY - read your first post and ask again who should be ashamed of themself.


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## shazalhasa (Jul 21, 2009)

For the record, I don't think your attitude stinks at all. You've had a hell of a lot to deal with and put in your position and then having some of the comments you've had... well, you've handled it much calmer and in a far more polite way that I would have 

You are correct, not every breeder keeps a puppy back from each litter, I know of one breeder who has had over 12 litters in the past year or so but I've not seen 12 new pups come out for showing  not even half of that tbh but then there's always the high and mighty that put themselves on a pedestal, way too high for any other to measure upto and to be sure nobody comes close they just constantly put others down, makes me sick !!!! 

Also want to say, not all breeders would be put off selling a puppy with one eye... wasn't that long ago that I saw a 3 legged puppy for sale (born that way). This wasn't a pet breeder or BYB either.


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## First timer (Nov 2, 2010)

I wont post again just because i feel it just fans flames on here. I didnt breed intentionally and i didnt know my girl was pregnant until way into the pregnancy. Maybe reading my first ever post would help understand. You see these questions of why etc are asked by those who havent previously read anything ive posted so have no knowledge of my situation.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

First timer said:


> Thank you for the kind wishes those that have sent them and thank you for being with me guiding me since day 1 .
> 
> I was going to post a picture of her to share with you and return tomorrow to give you news from the vet .... but you know what...i'm not going to bother.
> 
> ...


im probably going to be jumped on for saying this but i agree with u i have seen myself step away so many time because of this!! i would also like to say not everyone keeps a pup from their litters...ellies litter was all sold non were kept from the breeder dont see why anyone should pick this out each time if u feel the need to keep a pup because you have bettered ur breed or maybe just for a pet then fair enough but its not alwys what everyone wants.... any way i would like to say to u dont get yourself down or upset there will be no disability with the pup its always known one eye and nothing else therefore it wont know any difrent!! she will be fine if u ask me she a special pup  and i for one would love to see some piks of her  xx


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Yeah some picks of the litter would be nice..


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

First timer said:


> I wont post again just because i feel it just fans flames on here. I didnt breed intentionally and i didnt know my girl was pregnant until way into the pregnancy. Maybe reading my first ever post would help understand. You see these questions of why etc are asked by those who havent previously read anything ive posted so have no knowledge of my situation.


dont leave just ignore those who are...well..stuck up their own ar*e u will find some excellent advice from those willing to suport and help u iv had great advice and seen and red some of the amazing work some of the people do here...there are ofcourse those who think they r something special and cant keep their nose out esspecially when they are not helping or wanted but you just got to ignore them  xx


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## First timer (Nov 2, 2010)

swarthy said:


> Correction - YOU should be ashamed of yourself - I HAVE EVERY SYMPATHY WITH THE DOG.
> 
> Read your first post back - basically - you don't want to keep another dog because you can;t cope with the two you have and never intended to keep anything in the first place - YOUR WORDS - NOT MINE. Nothing about "not getting to know him" - it's a DOG - not a new lover.
> 
> ...


bull sH*T
U CARRE NOTHING ABOUT MY DOGS U ARE JUST TRYING TO MAKE YOURSELF LOOK BETTER
THERE U GO AGAIN SECOND GUESSING - ONE OF WHO HAS ALREADY HAD 2 PREVIOUS HOMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AN ELDERY LADY WHO WENT INTO A CARE HOME SO MY SIS TOOK HIM IN RATHER THAN HIM GO TO A SHELTER!!!! I TOOK HIM BECAUSE SHE STARTED COLLEGE BECAUSE SHE LOST HER BABY AND NEEDED SOMETHING TO FOCUS ON!!!!!!!
DO NOT SPEAK OR POST TO ME AGAIN YOU HAVE JUST PROVED YOUR JUDGEMENTAL PERSONALITY.

I FEEL SORRY FOR U.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

First timer said:


> What would you say to a new mum of a disabled baby who in distress said she found it hard to cope with the children she already had????? would you tell her to hand her disabled baby to someone YOU think would make better parents???? maybe you'd have a go and say why get pregnant again if you find motherhood hard work!!!!!!!!!!


I would have EVERY sympathy with anyone with a disabled child - but yes - if someone struggled with motherhood and had another child - I would think them insane.

I nearly died having my daughter - as did my daughter - we didn't know for a fair time whether she would survive or if she would be brain damaged.

A post partum psychoses followed - and NO - as a result of all this - I opted to have NO MORE children - so damn right - I would think anyone insane if they really struggled but proceeded anyway - been there, done that and got the T-shirt - bringing a litter of puppies into the world offers MANY MORE OPTIONS to make the right decision than getting pregnant often does.

My daughter - graduating from Uni in just a few months - better to do good by the one than have any more.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

swarthy said:


> I would have EVERY sympathy with anyone with a disabled child - but yes - if someone struggled with motherhood and had another child - I would think them insane.
> 
> I nearly died having my daughter - as did my daughter - we didn't know for a fair time whether she would survive or if she would be brain damaged.
> 
> ...


gota be honest some of your post really get to me!! 
edit: these have just made me laugh!! sorry but ur going totally over board. So what if ur daughter graduating from uni?! who says you made her that way?! some people....


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

First timer said:


> bull sH*T
> U CARRE NOTHING ABOUT MY DOGS U ARE JUST TRYING TO MAKE YOURSELF LOOK BETTER
> THERE U GO AGAIN SECOND GUESSING - ONE OF WHO HAS ALREADY HAD 2 PREVIOUS HOMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AN ELDERY LADY WHO WENT INTO A CARE HOME SO MY SIS TOOK HIM IN RATHER THAN HIM GO TO A SHELTER!!!! I TOOK HIM BECAUSE SHE STARTED COLLEGE BECAUSE SHE LOST HER BABY AND NEEDED SOMETHING TO FOCUS ON!!!!!!!
> DO NOT SPEAK OR POST TO ME AGAIN YOU HAVE JUST PROVED YOUR JUDGEMENTAL PERSONALITY.
> ...


Um - that's THREE homes - whatever the reasons.

I don't need to try and make myself feel better - I feel VERY sorry for the dog - and everything I do and say revolves around dogs - my own and other peoples - as most of my life has done.

It is people like you that make me understand why that has been the case.

You don't need to feel sorry for me - but I feel damn sorry for your dogs.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.


I asked a simple question - I have nothing to be ashamed of. However, as Swarthy says, perhaps you should read your own posts back. You have a litter and say you are struggling with the 2 dogs you have - the sire of this litter you've already given a home because your sister, who rehomed him, could not look after him either!



> To be raising a litter for the first time being so so thankful and proud that you have a healthy mum and pups


Well, to be honest, you have no idea whether these pups are going to be healthy as the sire is an unregistered dog now on it's third home with you!
You can have no idea what he is likely to have passed onto these pups!



> Maybe reading my first ever post would help understand.


I have already read your first ever post and I remember reading it when it first appeared too. I could have asked then, why you hadn't had your 4 year old bitch who has problems with her seasons spayed - I didn't  Lots more too I could say about responsible ownership too, but won't - I think it will just go straight over your head.

Just to finish, a responsible breeder needs to be prepared to take any pups back should the new owners be unable to cope with them. YOU brought the pups into the world and ultimately they are YOUR responsibility for the rest of their lives. If you are struggling with two adult dogs, how will you cope with not just this extra pup, but others that may come back, or, if you have problems finding homes for them?


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2010)

OP I have already said I completely understand why you are upset regarding your girl.

And I have read back through your posts...You could have had her mismated or even spayed (if you never wanted a litter from her). 

What's done is done and there is no going back, What's important is that this pup gets help and finds a home that can give time to her that she will need. Special pups (as I call them) need time spent with them and as you already admitted you are struggling. Is there anyone you trust enough to donate time to her?

I understand not all breeders keep 1 back however most breeders dont continue on with a litter if they are already finding it hard to cope. A litter of pups is like a bomb being dropped on your house, stress for mum and dad and all involved.

Anyway as said before good luck. I would like for you not to leave as the advice given on this forum okay not always what you want to hear is usually good advice that you can carry with you and will come useful one day.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

staceydawlz said:


> gota be honest some of your post really get to me!!
> edit: these have just made me laugh!! sorry but ur going totally over board. So what if ur daughter graduating from uni?! who says you made her that way?! some people....


I was responding to the OP's post on disabled children and having more children when you find parenthood difficult.

I was talking about the fact that when she was born - she encountered difficulties which caused problems though oxygen starvation and suffered some health problems during her early years as a result - and yes - I am damn proud of her - it was in response to that if you had actually bothered to read the posts rather than make assumptions or think I was blowing my own trumpet


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

sorry but im gona stay here and stick of this person cause im sick of it...its always the same people is there need to pick things out all the time?! she has also mentioned many of times she is NOT a breeder and this was never an intentional litter...hello...pik things out that are worth piking...honestly more members leaving...why??? coz people think they know and are much better than everyone else!!


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2010)

First timer said:


> What would you say to a new mum of a disabled baby who in distress said she found it hard to cope with the children she already had????? would you tell her to hand her disabled baby to someone YOU think would make better parents???? maybe you'd have a go and say why get pregnant again if you find motherhood hard work!!!!!!!!!!


That has actually really upset me....How can you possibly compair a litter of pups to a child with a disability?

My little brother (whos now 11) is autistic he cant talk and is in nappies, he doesnt understand danger either. My mother had me then him, he was so bad she relied on me for help and she knew it would be tough but thats why she had children, she was prepaired for the bad as well as the good. That's what breeders should be first time breeders or 100 times breeders should be ready for the worst.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> well..stuck up their own ar*e


Translation.............. 'actually care about their dogs and dogs in general by giving them proper care


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> That has actually really upset me....How can you possibly compair a litter of pups to a child with a disability?
> 
> My little brother (whos now 11) is autistic he cant talk and is in nappies, he doesnt understand danger either. My mother had me then him, he was so bad she relied on me for help and she knew it would be tough but thats why she had children, she was prepaired for the bad as well as the good. That's what breeders should be first time breeders or 100 times breeders should be ready for the worst.


i agree its a choice and a gift not a "thing" or an "object" x


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> Translation.............. 'actually care about their dogs and dogs in general by giving them proper care


your so wrong i mean nothing of the sort...pick it out all you like and think what you like iv said this on many posts before and theres a difrence between those who are stuck up their own ar*se and those who care about dogs and others animals people etc...u have obviously no clue so dont try and make me out to be an idiot!!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

The matter here is about the pup.. lets all hope that the pup is ok and gets a good bill of health when it goes to the vets.....

Seriously there is no need for all this bickering.. If you haven't got something well worthy of reading why bother posting on the thread to just antagonize!

Whats happened re the circumstances of the pregnancy has happened.. and the concerns should now be the well being of this pup....


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2010)

staceydawlz said:


> i agree its a choice and a gift not a "thing" or an "object" x


But you agree the OP had the choice to mismate or spay and decided not to knowing full well she wasnt ready if something went wrong? 

Its not a dig at the OP maybe it will help her next time she wants to breed to remember how un-prepaired she was for this.

Its no longer about jumping down someones throat about breeding its about now giving that puppy the time and special care she needs which the OP sounds like she cant.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

for a start im no where near stuck up my own ar*e and i love and care for all my animals and give them everything they need and want....so theres ur answer, tried to be smart but it didnt work!


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

staceydawlz said:


> sorry but im gona stay here and stick of this person cause im sick of it...its always the same people is there need to pick things out all the time?! she has also mentioned many of times she is NOT a breeder and this was never an intentional litter...hello...pik things out that are worth piking...honestly more members leaving...why??? coz people think they know and are much better than everyone else!!


she IS a breeder - or did the pups have a virgin birth - anyone who produces a litter IS a breeder?

No-one is saying everyone who breeds keeps a pup from every litter - but when many breed - they do so with the intention of being able to - sometimes it doesn't work out.

The OP was almost humorous about this fact - and open about the fact they couldn't cope with what they had.

That's not scotch mist or assumption or anything else - it's cold hard facts written by the poster themselves.

And sorry but it became an intentional litter the moment she opted not to have an emergency spay / removal of the pups before they became viable.

People asked questions - I don't need to make myself look any better or any worse - I told it as I see it - and I don't need to justify how I feel for the poor pup - and the more I've read - the more sorry I feel.

And pray someone here doesn't come across another post on another forum in 12 to 18 months time because the poor pup is pregnant by it's father because the dogs still haven't been neutered.

I own dogs and bitches - I could get caught out as could anyone in the same situation and frequently argued with those who claim it 'will never happen to them' - I am not holier than thou by any stretch of the imagination - but you only have to read the first post to understand why some people get upset - some situations can happen - this is one that never should have.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> But you agree the OP had the choice to mismate or spay and decided not to knowing full well she wasnt ready if something went wrong?
> 
> Its not a dig at the OP maybe it will help her next time she wants to breed to remember how un-prepaired she was for this.
> 
> Its no longer about jumping down someones throat about breeding its about now giving that puppy the time and special care she needs which the OP sounds like she cant.


no she could have done and she had the choice but my point is...she didnt....and now theres puppys who have been born and are now here so im all about the here and now not the past
edit: when i say no i mean i agree something should have been done when it wasnt too late but its too late now


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

swarthy said:


> she IS a breeder - or did the pups have a virgin birth - anyone who produces a litter IS a breeder?
> 
> No-one is saying everyone who breeds keeps a pup from every litter - but when many breed - they do so with the intention of being able to - sometimes it doesn't work out.
> 
> ...


breeder to me is someone who plans their litters has everything ready and sorted wheather it be the worst circumstances or not who has all relavent health tests done...not someone who has a one off litter by mistake!!x


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2010)

staceydawlz said:


> no she could have done and she had the choice but my point is...she didnt....and now theres puppys who have been born and are now here so im all about the here and now not the past


Exactly and now I am saying that she wasnt prepaired and isnt able to cope with 2, A pup that is going to need round the clock care and at risk of infections needs time and care that the op cant offer at this time, Thats why I asked if there was someone she trusted to have the pup for a while until she finds a way to cope.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> sorry but im gona stay here and stick of this person cause im sick of it...


No more sick than some of us are of hearing of these so called accidents that could have been avoided. I could say that a bitch with such irregular and problematic seasons should not have been kept entire, much less left with an entire dog! That would have been responsible ownership!



> its always the same people is there need to pick things out all the time?! she has also mentioned many of times she is NOT a breeder and this was never an intentional litter...


It doesn't matter whether it was intentional or not she IS the breeder and as I'm now on a roll, it doesn't matter whether it's intentional or not.... she *decided* to have this litter. She could have stopped it but decided not to. Now the breeder has to step up to this. Personally, I wouldn't be on a forum trying to get sympathy or even searching the net, I'd be straight on the phone to my vet!


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> breeder to me is someone who plans their litters has everything ready and sorted wheather it be the worst circumstances or not who has all relavent health tests done...not someone who has a one off litter by mistake!!


That may be your interpretation but it is not the correct one. If she is not the breeder - who is? The owner of the bitch is the one responsible for the care of her bitch and therefore responsible for the litter, whether planned or not. SHE is the breeder.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

rocco33 said:


> Personally, I wouldn't be on a forum trying to get sympathy or even searching the net, I'd be straight on the phone to my vet!


Did the poster not say she is at the vets tomorrow.. Im sure the OP is dealing with all the medical matters and posted on here in the shock of noticing..

What has happened has happened We cannot change the past only build on what has happened..


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## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

To be honest, this has gone a bit far off the subject?

I hope your pup is well, and I hope that you're holding up under all the stress.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

NicoleW said:


> To be honest, this has gone a bit far off the subject?
> 
> I hope your pup is well, and I hope that you're holding up under all the stress.


I ditto that.. the matter is the pups health and it seems OP is doing all she can.. (going the vets) to help this little one.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> That may be your interpretation but it is not the correct one. If she is not the breeder - who is? The owner of the bitch is the one responsible for the care of her bitch and therefore responsible for the litter, whether planned or not. SHE is the breeder.


see this is what i mean why is it that u cant be told anything and just accept it?!? yes...MY interpretation ...back off!!


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

staceydawlz said:


> breeder to me is someone who plans their litters has everything ready and sorted wheather it be the worst circumstances or not who has all relavent health tests done...not someone who has a one off litter by mistake!!x


A breeder is someone who produces a litter - irrespective of how it occured.

Sadly, it's interpretations like this that continue to allow BYB to produce litter after litter with all sorts of excuses of 'how it happened' - because they are not a breeder.



staceydawlz said:


> no she could have done and she had the choice but my point is...she didnt....and now theres puppys who have been born and are now here so im all about the here and now not the past


Yes - the pup is here - however the original post made me ask the question why they had a litter -

I made the comment that if the OP is struggling with the dogs she has - then she should maybe try and find an alternative home for it where it can get the attention it needs without struggles.

I also asked about the treatments that could prevent this dog living a life debilitated by disease and viruses through this problem

I that is stuck up my own a*rse and uncaring about dogs - then - sheesh - some people's interpretation of the English language and the words that started all this are lacking - and I will keep on caring (or as you so succinctly put it - leave my head up my backside!)

=========================

And for the record, - I asked a question - and what followed was a barrage of abuse.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Did the poster not say she is at the vets tomorrow.. Im sure the OP is dealing with all the medical matters and posted on here in the shock of noticing..
> 
> What has happened has happened We cannot change the past only build on what has happened..


:thumbup: defintly!xx


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> see this is what i mean why is it that u cant be told anything and just accept it?!? yes...MY interpretation ...back off!!


Hun I emailed some of the mummies of the pups I bred a couple of years ago.. the other day.. Got some lovely pics... I must share them on here some time... Its nice to know that when you make the effort whether an expert or not... Nice to know your puppies have lovely homes and the new owners feel they can talk to you about them and be so proud of them just the way you are..


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> see this is what i mean why is it that u cant be told anything and just accept it?!? yes...MY interpretation ...back off!!


How mature 

But you still haven't said who the breeder is? Or does this litter not have a breeder


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

defintly need some picks...love to see them its good to hear they are all happy and healthy xx


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> How mature
> 
> But you still haven't said who the breeder is? Or does this litter not have a breeder


nope


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> defintly need some picks...love to see them its good to hear they are all happy and healthy xx


Yeah defo.. when I can get PB working tomos I will post the pics I have.. im so proud.. and yes I didn't do everything by the book.. but we got through it and my guys got great homes.. xxx


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Sadly, it's interpretations like this that continue to allow BYB to produce litter after litter with all sorts of excuses of 'how it happened' - because they are not a breeder.


Exactly



> I that is stuck up my own a*rse and uncaring about dogs - then - sheesh - some people's interpretation of the English language and the words that started all this are lacking - and I will keep on caring (or as you so succinctly put it - leave my head up my backside!)


Sadly, I think the only 'right' way of caring according to some is to drool over pups and send hugs to the breeder when it goes all wrong. Remember never suggest something that the OP doesn't want to hear, even if it is in the best interests of the dog, or if it may help educate visiting readers.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2010)

I once bought a rat that turned out to be pregnant she gave birth and I found homes for the babies...for the 3-4 years of those babies lives I was the breeder even though I didnt mate the rat or even know it was pregnant but I took full care and accepted costs even ended up keeping 3 of them due to the lack of demand for rats though I was ready to keep all 15 if it came to it.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> I once bought a rat that turned out to be pregnant she gave birth and I found homes for the babies...for the 3-4 years of those babies lives I was the breeder even though I didnt mate the rat or even know it was pregnant but I took full care and accepted costs even ended up keeping 3 of them due to the lack of demand for rats though I was ready to keep all 15 if it came to it.


Ah thats lovely.. And you got through it all.. did they eat you out of house and home??


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Yeah defo.. when I can get PB working tomos I will post the pics I have.. im so proud.. and yes I didn't do everything by the book.. but we got through it and my guys got great homes.. xxx


sometimes iv noticed its not alway a text book thing...or its not always done text book but atleast you got through it and i bet they are great dogs now!! i would be proud too, especilly how youve found owners who are willing to keep in contact after how ever many years and send u piks...:thumbup:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> sometimes iv noticed its not alway a text book thing...or its not always done text book but atleast you got through it and i bet they are great dogs now!! i would be proud too, especilly how youve found owners who are willing to keep in contact after how ever many years and send u piks...:thumbup:


Yeah its nearly 3 years now.. I also had a dobe then as well but due to extreme mad circumstances I had to re home her.. and the guy has had her 2 and a half years... And he texts me daily as if we have been mates for ever.. Its great when you can find people who realise you did your best at the time for these guys...


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Ah thats lovely.. And you got through it all.. did they eat you out of house and home??


Cost me a bloody fortune it did...but It was worth it. Damn [email protected] selling pregnant rats.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

i would find it hard to find the right people i would have a contract and it would be that long with do's and dnts no one would want a puppy haha then there would be non of this "you didnt keep a pup" coz i did....the whole litter loool!!x


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## First timer (Nov 2, 2010)

There is no need to worry about my pup.
She will remain here with us after the others are long gone.
my dogs will be sorted so nothing can happen litter wise in the future. My male is already booked for his op, my bitch will be sorted as soon as my vet allows and the puppy in the future.
I will care for my pup and she will be part of our family as our other dogs are.

I said i wasnt going to post again but i have this to get off my chest in response.
My "so called" comparison of a disabled child and the pup was not to compare the beings but to compare the statement made when someone is distressed. it was in no way intended to hurt anyone.
Cannot believe i am now being burnt at the stake for that one.
my pup is a member of my family so feelings of course run high.

I decided to go ahead with the litter because she was about 5 weeks already and i couldnt bear to destroy their lives.
to rocco:
I DID immediately ring my vet - then reasearched net and didnt post for sympathy in fact i blamed myself for jinxing the little one by being so proud and relieved the pups were delivered safe and mum safe.

to swarthy: quote 
And pray someone here doesn't come across another post on another forum in 12 to 18 months time because the poor pup is pregnant by it's father because the dogs still haven't been neutered. 

I own dogs and bitches - I could get caught out as could anyone in the same situation and frequently argued with those who claim it 'will never happen to them' - I am not holier than thou by any stretch of the imagination - but you only have to read the first post to understand why some people get upset - some situations can happen - this is one that never should have.



THERE U GO AGAIN JUDGING. WHO SAYS THIS NEVER SHOULD HAVE ARE U GOD??????????
AND AS FOR YOUR CRAP ABOUT YOUR DAUGHTER - SHOWS EXACTLY WHO YOU ARE - HEAD UP YOUR OWN AZZ SPRINGS TO MIND.
I raised my children and my deceased sisters 3 children I was 24 when she died - they just finished uni - i could brag away how good of a soul i am and how proud i am but they DID IT THEMSELVES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
You seem to think you are something special whos opinion matters, well ive realised one thing....... you really are a selfish bitter person who looks down on others to make you feel better about yourself.

Ps you make out you are all for dogs yet mock the fact my little boy has had 2 homes before his lifetime home with me. Surely someone who loves dogs would encourage owners and future owners to give these dogs homes for life regardless of their past rather than so many be rejected, in pounds or put to sleep. shows YOU arnt even genuine. 

enjoy the rest of the thread and no i wont definately wont type again, u seem to enjoy your own poison so wallow in it hun xxx u are worth no more of my time


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

no stay...we dont need them  you can be my friend i will try help....plz


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> Cost me a bloody fortune it did...but It was worth it. Damn [email protected] selling pregnant rats.


haha this is why I sex em myself and only have the boys..lol No chance I am having a load of pinkies.. lol 
My pet shop does keep asking me to breed for him.. lol he will throw in a girly.. lol we just laff about it.. No Chance..


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

just a thought.....who breeds me??? lmao!!!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> just a thought.....who breeds me??? lmao!!!


LOL funny that.. I often said once I had our Jamie I wasn't having nother.. lol he is hard work.. and wo and behold I find Im having our Ryan... what a bloody shocker.. Im telling you I told everyone I would never have a nother cause I wouldn't cope.. well you know what. These things are sent to try us.. and you soon find yourself managing a situ you thought you wouldn't..

Hey when i came out I broke the mold.. lol


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

im on ur wave length here got my daughter dont think i would cope atm with another baby!! been having OH's brother boy he tries my stress levels lol!!xx


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> im on ur wave length here got my daughter dont think i would cope atm with another baby!! been having OH's brother boy he tries my stress levels lol!!xx


Goodness dont they.. but you know.. i had just bought a new horse when I found out I was preggers with our Ryan and just given my job up, a week later im preggers.. crikey.. I can tell ya what a shocker.. Thank goodness you never get two the same..lol


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2010)

Way of subject here.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Goodness dont they.. but you know.. i had just bought a new horse when I found out I was preggers with our Ryan and just given my job up, a week later im preggers.. crikey.. I can tell ya what a shocker.. Thank goodness you never get two the same..lol


they say things come in three's haha


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> they say things come in three's haha


haha I dont think so hun.. Im single now.. and I will not have any more.. LOL


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

shetlandlover said:


> Way of subject here.


yeeeeeeeeeeah it happens.. LMAO


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> haha I dont think so hun.. Im single now.. and I will not have any more.. LOL


loool...never say never, your dream man might come along and want 3 at once


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> loool...never say never, your dream man might come along and want 3 at once


LOL nope.. lol Nope nope.. Im too old now.. I want to enjoy what I have..


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

First timer said:


> THERE U GO AGAIN JUDGING. WHO SAYS THIS NEVER SHOULD HAVE ARE U GOD??????????
> AND AS FOR YOUR CRAP ABOUT YOUR DAUGHTER - SHOWS EXACTLY WHO YOU ARE - HEAD UP YOUR OWN AZZ SPRINGS TO MIND.
> I raised my children and my deceased sisters 3 children I was 24 when she died - they just finished uni - i could brag away how good of a soul i am and how proud i am but they DID IT THEMSELVES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> You seem to think you are something special whos opinion matters, well ive realised one thing....... you really are a selfish bitter person who looks down on others to make you feel better about yourself.


There you go making assumptions and reading what you want to read - where exactly did I say her finishing Uni was anything to do with me - yes - I did say better to do right by the child than have more when I struggled terribly the first time around - but my reference to uni was to the very life threatening start she had in life - nothing more, nothing less.

It's very easy to interpret the written word isn't it? yours that started all your barrage of abuse off - for simply responding to what you said.

And one thing I most certainly am not is selfish - carry on with your diatribe of abusive words - how many more can you drag up from the dictionary to use against me with absolutely NO foundation other than your own inadequacies.



First timer said:


> Ps you make out you are all for dogs yet mock the fact my little boy has had 2 homes before his lifetime home with me. Surely someone who loves dogs would encourage owners and future owners to give these dogs homes for life regardless of their past rather than so many be rejected, in pounds or put to sleep. shows YOU arnt even genuine.
> 
> enjoy the rest of the thread and no i wont definately wont type again, u seem to enjoy your own poison so wallow in it hun xxx u are worth no more of my time


I am not mocking the fact the dog is on it's third home - but yes - the fact that a dog passed from pillar to post with no stability and has been allowed to get into a situation of getting the resident, also entire bitch, pregnant - that is wrong.

You need serious help - you have tried to turn the tables around by twisting words to detract from the fact that your blatant statement at the start was about yourself rather than the dog.


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

excitement!!.....loool


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> excitement!!.....loool


So how long have you had you labrador?


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

she will be 2 in may...im sooo proud of her shes amazing i probably sound like im just saying it because shes mine but shes such a quick learner never had a MAJOR problem with her at all shes the best gift i could have been given!! she really is amazing ... how about your dogs how long you had them, always fancied a weim *plots a plan to steal*


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> she will be 2 in may...im sooo proud of her shes amazing i probably sound like im just saying it because shes mine but shes such a quick learner never had a MAJOR problem with her at all shes the best gift i could have been given!! she really is amazing ... how about your dogs how long you had them, always fancied a weim *plots a plan to steal*


Haha Mum is 6 this april and daughter is 3 in april.. absolute gems they are.. xxx


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

its great!! if i were in ur situation my house would be a dog and cat home its only because of my OH tht i dont have more animals haha


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Hope the pups ok, please update us after the vets and pics would be nice.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

XxZoexX said:


> Hope the pups ok, please update us after the vets and pics would be nice.


It really would be nice for the OP to start a nice new thread and let us know how they are getting on.. its so nice to follow the pups as they develop... Regardless of how they ended up in the world.. xxx


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> its great!! if i were in ur situation my house would be a dog and cat home its only because of my OH tht i dont have more animals haha


hahah mine is dogs.. rats.. and hamsters.. oh yeah and me mad fish Rocky..lol


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

i would have all that and cat and...:O everything lol xx


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> i would have all that and cat and...:O everything lol xx


haha I used to have quite a few cats.. wouldn't get anymore though.. not for a long time.. although I miss me little water bottles.. xxx


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Hope this pup is okay


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## Rolosmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Surely a one off accidental litter if you then sort it so it cant happen again does not make you a byb or pf.

I also dont think it makes you a breeder, technically yes you have bred, but this is a bit insulting i think to breeders who take time and plan and they would not want the other people to be called breeders as it takes off of what they do!

That said I hope the pup is okay and will live a happy life with one good eye, he is in the world and deserves to be happy.


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

Jeez - it's only a missing eyeball, dogs aren't sentimental like us and they don't care what they look like as long as they can do what dogs do! Don't know why the OP is so bothered about looks - it's alive and doing it's thing and you are getting a vet to check it, so why worry? The vet will most likely suggest removing any eye that is there when it's older and stitching up the lids so it just has a flat patch of fur so no dirt etc can get stuck in it.
A dog that has been born without it will never know any different and it really doesn't affect their quality of life, we had a dog that lost an eye after a horse kicked it when he was 2yrs old, he lived 8yrs with just one eye as a perfectly normal farm dog - the only time it affected him was if he wasn't concentrating and went to jump something - and missed! - his distance judging wasn't great!!!

As for flapping about keeping the pup - firstly as others have said you should have been prepared to potentially keep the whole litter as you made the choice to go ahead with the birth, doesn't matter wether you intended to keep one or not, although I do as most people rightly do, wonder why someone would have a litter when they didn't want a pup. 
I think people have been asking perfectly reasonable questions and they are ones everyone would ask, especially people who are going to come and see your pups with a view to buy, so am not sure why you have flown off the handle at them?! 
Anyway the pup should be fine to go to a new home after it has had the vets approval, and maybe give it to a friend so you can make sure it gets the treatment it needs - it's not as if it's a working dog or anything!! Besides it's a toy breed so you should be able to find someone who makes trendy sparkly pink eye patches if it really bothers you!!! 
I just hope you are planning on neutering the mum and sire, and put a breeding claus on the pups - all new owners should agree to have them neutered - and you will need to explain to new owners why - this is most likely genetic, your price will obviously reflect this anyway.
Have fun with them as this is the quietest bit before they are upwardly mobile chewing poop machines!!!!


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

How did it go at the vets today first timer? i hope they gave you lots of positive advise


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Bearpaw said:


> How did it go at the vets today first timer? i hope they gave you lots of positive advise


me too...hope all is good!!xx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

staceydawlz said:


> gota be honest some of your post really get to me!!
> edit: these have just made me laugh!! sorry but ur going totally over board. So what if ur daughter graduating from uni?! who says you made her that way?! some people....


I was going to leave this thread alone but I don't think that Swarthy actually meant to say that she was the cause of her daughter's graduation. When you have a child who could possibly be brain damaged, it is a very great moment when they achieve something like this. My son is brain damaged and I was over the moon when he learnt to write his name at the age of 20. That is still all he can write, but it is enough.

I think this thread has got totally out of hand, personally. I think the OP came on here simply to express her sorrow and I think she will do a great job of raising this poor pup.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I was going to leave this thread alone but I don't think that Swarthy actually meant to say that she was the cause of her daughter's graduation. When you have a child who could possibly be brain damaged, it is a very great moment when they achieve something like this. My son is brain damaged and I was over the moon when he learnt to write his name at the age of 20. That is still all he can write, but it is enough.


Thank you newfiesmum - when my daughter was born - I didn't see her because she was taken straight to special care; I was told by the doctors, if she lived, her life would amount to nothing - so YES - I make no apologies for feeling damn proud - and was explaing this in answer to the OPs point about having additional children.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

swarthy said:


> Thank you newfiesmum - when my daughter was born - I didn't see her because she was taken straight to special care; I was told by the doctors, if she lived, her life would amount to nothing - so YES - I make no apologies for feeling damn proud - and was explaing this in answer to the OPs point about having additional children.


You have every right to be proud Swarthy the people on this forum make me sick.. 
whats the saying people in glass houses shouldnt thrown stones!


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> You have every right to be proud Swarthy the people on this forum make me sick..
> whats the saying people in glass houses shouldnt thrown stones!


:


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

i wonder how the little puppy got on at the vets


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

mitch4 said:


> i wonder how the little puppy got on at the vets


aparently all is well she contact a PF member xx:thumbup:


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

staceydawlz said:


> :


  If you have something to say, say it...everyone can roll their eyes. The members on this forum get more childish.


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Im glad the puppy is ok


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> If you have something to say, say it...everyone can roll their eyes. The members on this forum get more childish.


Don't worry DD - she says it in abundance - if you read back on the thread she as good as says "I am going to be around because certain people wind me up" (aka me for one :lol

The so called s*lfsh cow as called by the OP - is VERY glad the puppy is OK and hope she goes on to lead a normal, health and happy life


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

So glad to read the pup is doing well


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

well it would b nice 2 find out about the pup, instead of having 2 wade through all this drivvle, some of this has gone completely off topic guys


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Ditsy42 said:


> well it would b nice 2 find out about the pup, instead of having 2 wade through all this drivvle, some of this has gone completely off topic guys


Well its all irrelevant now.. OP doesn't want to post on here again.

But for anyone concerned re the pups eye.. all is well..


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Well its all irrelevant now.. OP doesn't want to post on here again.
> 
> But for anyone concerned re the pups eye.. all is well..


such a shame eh more people pushed away from the forum...good on the pup side of things tho!!xx


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

staceydawlz said:


> such a shame eh more people pushed away from the forum...good on the pup side of things tho!!xx


Yeah good news.. Big hugs to the OP and the Pup.. xxx


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I hope she feels she can post again, and maybe start a thread about the pups. We all realize along with the OP that this was an accidental litter and hope all the pups find loving forever homes, and that the pup in question has a full and happy life. I am also pleased she is having both the adults fixed and the pup seen as though this could very well be a genetic issue.I am closing this thread as it is no longer needed....Jill


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