# I NEED to hand raise a mouse but ( a big but)



## Miceandmore64 (Jun 7, 2013)

I can't. Because of school (7 hours) a mouse under 2 weeks can not just not be feed for a whole 7 hours. We have holidays in 2 weeks for 2 weeks which I would hand raise a mouse in those two weeks until it is 2 weeks old but I don't have any litters due at the moment. If I did want to hand raise one I will have to wait till Christmas. Err stupid school. But I don't think sneaking a mouse into school and feeding in breaks would work but I could easily make it work. Any hand raising info may it please be in a pm coming my way please. The sneaking thing would work easy apart from could I make 1-3 mice a nest in a ice cream container to live until 2 weeks. I could make holes and all that but does the formula gave to be warm?
Info please comment or pm


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## Eriya (May 10, 2012)

It might be due to me not being fully awake yet but it sounds to me like you want to hand raise a mouse rather than you need to. Correct me if I got it wrong, but if you don't have a mouse that needs hand rearing then why force it? Surely it would be better for the mum to raise the mouse?


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Is it me or do some of these threads sound a bit dodgy ?


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading this as you WANT to hand raise a mouse rather than actually have any need to? :shocked:

If that's the case then I think it's a very immature thing to do. It would be best to leave the mice with their mother to be raised.


:frown2:


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Micky93 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading this as you WANT to hand raise a mouse rather than actually have any need to? :shocked:
> 
> If that's the case then I think it's a very immature thing to do. It would be best to leave the mice with their mother to be raised.
> 
> :frown2:


This ^ and the fact the mother will give the mouse all the correct nutrients from her milk.

To be honest just pack in breeding because as you've said your only 12 yrs old. I don't get why you'd want to be breeding????
What is your purpose? There are so many rescue mice needing homes.
Just keep them as pets end of.


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## Miceandmore64 (Jun 7, 2013)

I would only do it if one of mice mice has more than 10 babies or is a bad mother.


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## Miceandmore64 (Jun 7, 2013)

blade100 said:


> This ^ and the fact the mother will give the mouse all the correct nutrients from her milk.
> 
> To be honest just pack in breeding because as you've said your only 12 yrs old. I don't get why you'd want to be breeding????
> What is your purpose? There are so many rescue mice needing homes.
> Just keep them as pets end of.


I only have one litter at a time. And if you are thinking oh you are only 12 then I know the most popular mousery in my country started when she was 13. I also have been working my way around genetics.

"Ignore the haters coz somebody lives you" Mikey Cyrus


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

Even if they have more than 10 babies you don't have to hand raise them. You don't exist in the wild to hand raise excess numbers- mice are more than equipped enough to deal with them or it wouldn't occur naturally. The baby stands a much better chance with its mother than with you.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Miceandmore64 said:


> I only have one litter at a time. And if you are thinking oh you are only 12 then I know the *most popular* mousery in my country started when she was 13. I also have been working my way around genetics.
> 
> "Ignore the haters coz somebody lives you" Mikey Cyrus


Most popular doesn't necessarily mean most ethical.

Nobody's 'hating' on here, but giving sound advice, from what you've posted it sounds like you need to do a LOT more research before beginning breeding.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

quite honestly your posts read like they are written by a Very spoiled child. ok, so someone else has been breeding since they were 13... a girl in my school deliberately got herself pregnant when she was 14 'because she 'needed' a baby  ' want to have a go at that to do you?
her baby got taken off her btw and given to her grandparents because she sucked at being a parent- what with her being a kid n all!

so grow up a bit before you start 'messing about' with pups (or kits, not sure which mice have) just because you want to hand-raise doesn't mean it will all go peachy for you.

by working your way around genetics i assume you mean studying them? thats great, keep at it- it's fasinating stuff, but a hell of a lot different than hand raising an animal. i've had to do it with a yorkie pup before and it's damn hard work- i ended up taking a few weeks off school because it made me ill (i was 16), then when things went downhill i ended up on meds to cope with it. here is the 2nd half of that story- i can't relive it today to write down again ... http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/308953-why-im-against-breeding-just-because-you-can.html

want to deal with that do you?

i get that baby animals are the most incredible thing in the world, and yes, everyone needs to start somewhere. but you seem like a smart kid in many ways- you're trying to work it round your school life, and are finding time to study genetics basics (i say basics because its Very complex in full- phd style!) but keep that up and stop worrying about 'having' to hand raise anything. if the need arises, then of course intervene and try to save its life, but not just because there are more than 10 in a litter. my rat Elle had 12, and she could've dealt with double that had she needed to (because she was awesome) the only reason you'd need to step in would be if you lost a momma mouse and left a litter behind... and hate to burst your bubble, but if you're planning on getting enough sleep while raising to attend school, then you won't be hand raising right 
2 hourly feeds 24/7 for pups, so i'd imagine it would be the same or more for mice. (and the pup i was raising took nearly an hour to feed, so that was Very little sleep there)

and for the record... this isn't 'mean' or 'hating'. it's fact, a wee bit different.
and i'd be happy to be of help if i could if/when needed. as i say, if your patient, you'll make a Great Ethical breeder some day (which if far more important (and different) than being a popular breeder!


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## HazelandDan (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm sorry you feel like you're being hated on, but the people on this forum are only here because they love animals. Your suggestion that you want to needlessly hand-raise baby mice and risk their lives just because you want to is irresponsible and unethical. It's no surprise you've received a negative response.

You will certainly get all the help and advice here that you need, should you be in the unfortunate position where mother mouse dies and babies actually need hand rearing, but please reconsider your position on hand raising mice, just to get the experience.

Please continue to research genetics and love and care for your mice as you have been doing, you clearly care for your animals. Staying on this forum and asking questions of knowledgeable people is a great way to learn how to do best by your pets


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

You don't need to hand raise ANY just because of a litter size.

Nobody is 'hating' but the reason you are being treated with the attitude of 'Oh, she's 12' is because you are acting like an immature child, who clearly has no ethical understanding behind your motives, and if you do then clearly you don't care about them!

That's not the sort of person I would ever want to own mice from.

A '*popular*' breeder and a '*good*' breeder are two totally separate things, it would do you well to learn the difference.


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Miceandmore64 said:


> I can't.


Good stuff, there you go. You have your answer.


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

Just no...

Good breeders have the time to spend most of their day and night with a litter if the mum passes or has other mice with litters that they can foster the babies onto. Failing that, they have contingency plans with other breeders close by to foster the babies onto mothers with existing litters. If mum mouse was a bad mother, then you would NEED to feed them EVERY TWO HOURS for two weeks - can you really see your parents allowing you to do things like that on a school night? Or would they do it for you? I know mine wouldn't have when I was 12 and mine love animals and would do anything for me and our animals. Not only that but NO A MOUSE CAN'T BE KEPT IN AN ICE CREAM TUB!!!! Fair enough if you want to use that as an emergency tub for short journeys and transport, but to live in non-stop for 2 weeks?!?!?!

Hand raising mice is extremely difficult, they need to be kept at a constant temperature, stimulated to urinate and defecate and then you have the bother of finding something small enough to use to get formula into them. Do you even know what formula it is that you need? It isn't just baby formula you know. I have been on a breeders forum for mice for many years, and can count on one hand the number of mouse breeders that have been able to successful hand rear baby mice.

And if you are wondering why people are "hating" you, then please have a look at your original post, the parts I have highlighted in bold are the parts everyone is concerned about:



> *I NEED to hand raise a mouse but ( a big but)*
> *I can't*. Because of school (7 hours) a mouse under 2 weeks can not *just not be feed for a whole 7 hours. *We have holidays in 2 weeks for 2 weeks which I would hand raise a mouse in those two weeks until it is 2 weeks old but I don't have any litters due at the moment. *If I did want to hand raise one* I will have to wait till Christmas. Err stupid school. *But I don't think sneaking a mouse into school and feeding in breaks would work but I could easily make it work.* Any hand raising info may it please be in a pm coming my way please. The sneaking thing would work easy apart from *could I make 1-3 mice a nest in a ice cream container to live until 2 weeks*. I could make holes and all that but does the formula gave to be warm?
> Info please comment or pm


Notice that you didn't mention once that this is something you were only going to do if the mouse mother was bad or had too large a litter, you have only mentioned (several times) that you want, need, and plan to hand raise a baby mouse.

I really, strongly recommend that you keep your mice just as pets. The popular breeder that you are referring to may well have had a good deal of support and help from other people interested in breeders - I know of several mouse breeders in the UK that are helping their children start out, but it is them as the parent that are dealing with all these things, the child in question actually has very little input other than buying the mice, choosing who goes together and showing them under their own name. Mice make great pets, and you should know about the genetics BEFORE breeding, not after - you should also be getting support from another breeder if possible. Keep them as pets just now, you have plenty of years aheead of you to breed once you know what you are doing.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I was not being hateful!

We are very concerned as others have said you don't need to hand raise a mouse if the mother can do it.
You have to think whats in the best interest of the animal and clearly what you want to do is definitely not in the mouses best interest.


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## queen princess (Jun 29, 2013)

please DO NOT try to raise one yourself. I have bred mice and rats before and have had the unfortunate experience of hand rearing. THEY DO NOT SURVIVE! yes it is possible for one to survive, but it is not very likely. it is very easy to accidentally drown them in the formula no matter how carefull you are. it is also very hard to keep their tempature correct. to me, you WANTING (not needing) to do this is very cruel!


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## loukodi (Oct 27, 2010)

The mothers care is always best, they get the perfect diet from her and will learn from her. 
Hand - rearing should be a last resort in extreme circumstance.

If you intend to breed any animal, you need to think of why you want to breed, health implications, time, space and money.

What would happen if you were at school and the mother started having difficulties? I have recently just had a guinea pig litter. The days are counted, her diet is supplemented, and as I work 1 minute away from where I live I could check on her very often. If there was a problem I could rush her to the vets.

If the mother should die, do you have the equipment you need to hand? (syringes, warm blankets, sterilised area, formula...) Could you get them quickly enough?
They space to separate them when old enough? The bedding, food, cages all costs money...
Would you be able to get them to a vet quick enough?
Do you know what symptoms to look for (mothers / young health)?

If you really feel you have the everything necessary to breed no one will be able to stop you, but please think of all this first. 
And please do not feel like you must hand rear any young. Babies are cute but the mother is always the best for them. Watch the way they interact with her, you will be able to get them tame when they are old enough to be handled if that's what your aim is.

No one on this forum wants to be mean, we want to help, if you breed them, myself and im sure many other will help and advise you. We all want whats best for the animals


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

NO NO AND NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hand raising a mouse is EXTREMELY hard! A mother mouse can usually handle all her litter. You should not split the litter. Not least because the mother mouse might feel threatened and cull the litter.

I have only had to once do this as the mother rejected the litter (she was scared). I had a nursing mother who had a two week litter, I kept taking her out to nurse the babies, I kept them in a pouch my bra...they were fed and warm and they still didn't make it 24 hours.

Taking it into school????

Seriously I was with you when you first posted...but you are immature. I had a sister your age who has twice your maturity levels. These are LIVES you are talking about...not toys.

Let me recommend...


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

niki87 said:


> Taking it into school????
> 
> Let me recommend...


you're not allowed those in school either- my teacher kept confiscating mine and ended up killing my dinosaur...


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

kodakkuki said:


> you're not allowed those in school either- my teacher kept confiscating mine and ended up killing my dinosaur...


Awww bless you!!! Though my Mum babysat mine and my sister's. Bless her though...she cried when my sister's one backed it's bag and went!


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## fatrat (May 14, 2012)

I left one of mine in the back garden one day in summer and it fried inside out.

I swear I'm a decent pet owner!


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

When i lived with my mum and dad i kept asking for pet rats. They kept saying no. My mum got a pebble from the garden and drew eyes on it and said if u can look after that for 10 years you can have a pet. I was 18 at the time. Lol. I moved out 2 years later and got my own rats. 

There is no moral to the story, just that personally i feel you would be better of with a pebble.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

CRL said:


> When i lived with my mum and dad i kept asking for pet rats. They kept saying no. My mum got a pebble from the garden and drew eyes on it and said if u can look after that for 10 years you can have a pet. I was 18 at the time. Lol. I moved out 2 years later and got my own rats.
> 
> There is no moral to the story, just that personally i feel you would be better of with a pebble.


Just spat my coffee out.


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## Miceandmore64 (Jun 7, 2013)

Hello everybody,
Just so you know I have been reading these posts. My mice are cared for very well. Dont worry I will not hand raise a mouse unless really really needed. I just heard of so many good story's of hand raised mouse. I knew there was a giant risk but had not heard of the unsuccessful story's. I guess I have
Learned my lesson the hard way with 3 pages of utterly selfish people who have nothing better to do than bring people down.

I don't care what u say ur haters and that's all that matters. I know my mice love me and that's all that matters get a job people. I'm sure you guys have learned things the hard way before.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

Miceandmore64 said:


> I don't care what u say ur haters and that's all that matters. I know my mice love me and that's all that matters get a job people. *I'm sure you guys have learned things the hard way before*.


not really, ive never bred an animal, i go to people who know what they are doing to get my boys. never felt the need to make more animals and then take them away from their mother just to see what its like, its hard enough when it happens in real life and you have to hand rear kits, just ask breeders and rescuers. your just reacting like the child you are to grown up advice given by people who have bred and rescued animals.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Miceandmore64 said:


> I would only do it if one of mice mice has more than 10 babies or is a bad mother.


I used to keep fancy mice. One of my girls had two litters with 19 babies in each (yes! you read it right - 19!!!!!. I didn't let her have any further litters). She managed to raise all of her babies to healthy mousehood, with the help of the other lady mice in their aquarium. Mice are wonderful mothers, and incredibly maternal. They will happily nurse each others babies, and act as babysitters. I've even had mice steal litters from other mice!

*OP* - Mice know what they are doing, even though they may not have any morals about it - leave them to raise their babies. Can you not imagine how difficult it will be to find a small enough dropper, and to help them empty their little tummies after a meal? They are tiny and delicate. You could do a lot of damage.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 8, 2011)

Miceandmore64 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Just so you know I have been reading these posts. My mice are cared for very well. Dont worry I will not hand raise a mouse unless really really needed. I just heard of so many good story's of hand raised mouse. I knew there was a giant risk but had not heard of the unsuccessful story's. I guess I have
> Learned my lesson the hard way with 3 pages of utterly selfish people who have nothing better to do than bring people down.
> 
> I don't care what u say ur haters and that's all that matters. I know my mice love me and that's all that matters get a job people. I'm sure you guys have learned things the hard way before.


"My mice are cared for very well."
Yes, I'm sure they are. Nobody has said that you're abusing your animals, but caring for an animal well is VERY different to breeding them. Just think of all the reasons why you wouldn't breed from a cat or dog from a rescue centre, even if they're happy and well cared for.

"I guess I have
Learned my lesson the hard way with 3 pages of utterly selfish people who have nothing better to do than bring people down."
That's totally uncalled for. People are NOT trying to bring you down, but quite frankly it sounds like you have your mind set on this and the only way to get you to see reality is to be blunt and say that hand rearing mice is nearly always unnecessary, unethical, and near impossible. Also, I am probably not alone when I say I'm very suspicious that you could be trolling. Quoting Miley Cyrus? Really? If people HAVE been rude, it's because we're finding this hard to believe.

If you're not a troll, I can guarantee that you will look back on this thread in 3-4 years time and be laughing but dying inside because you will be so embarrassed.


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

Miceandmore64 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Just so you know I have been reading these posts. My mice are cared for very well. Dont worry I will not hand raise a mouse unless really really needed. I just heard of so many good story's of hand raised mouse. I knew there was a giant risk but had not heard of the unsuccessful story's. I guess I have
> Learned my lesson the hard way with 3 pages of utterly selfish people who have nothing better to do than bring people down.
> 
> I don't care what u say ur haters and that's all that matters. I know my mice love me and that's all that matters get a job people. I'm sure you guys have learned things the hard way before.


So the person who wanted to take babies away from their mother so that YOU could have a 'better mouse' for YOURSELf at the risk of it being detrimental to is health, and potentially fatal to the baby, is calling us selfish?!

I've heard it all now 

You've got a lot of growing up to do if you can't take advice without throwing your toys out of a pram. Jeez.....


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Wow...how do I word this...mice do not LOVE their owners. I have had very friendly mice, very curious mice, mice who will curl up in my hair and sleep. 

However mice do LOVE the lives that you can give them. They love BIG cages. They love decent food. They LOVE mice company.

As a mouse owner it is YOUR job to LOVE your mice unconditionally. Provide them with what they need. Enjoy each and every personality. Do not aabuse them by creating potentially life threatening situations such as breeding when you know nothing about their capabilities of creating healthy litters or in physically having the babies....and do not take babies from their mother.

You know what though...if you came on saying actually I realise I have made mistakes in wanting to breed and some things I have said....you would have many admirers on this site. There are plenty of young people who have shown high levels of maturity on this site and they have got on well.


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## ceretrea (Jan 24, 2011)

Miceandmore64 said:


> I would only do it if one of mice mice has more than 10 babies or is a bad mother.


This is a common myth used by some mouse breeders as an excuse to cull. Mouse mums can raise large litters. Supplement mum with lactol, porridge made with water and small amounts of baby food.

But I have to say this sounds like another troll post.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

ceretrea said:


> This is a common myth used by some mouse breeders as an excuse to cull. Mouse mums can raise large litters. Supplement mum with lactol, porridge made with water and small amounts of baby food.
> 
> But I have to say this sounds like another *troll* post.


not a troll, a kid who doesn't understand the needs of infant animals- which is to a degree a good thing. kids need ot be kids, not raising infants- of any species!


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

Miceandmore64 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Just so you know I have been reading these posts. My mice are cared for very well. Dont worry I will not hand raise a mouse unless really really needed. I just heard of so many good story's of hand raised mouse. I knew there was a giant risk but had not heard of the unsuccessful story's. I guess I have
> Learned my lesson the hard way with 3 pages of utterly selfish people who have nothing better to do than bring people down.
> 
> I don't care what u say ur haters and that's all that matters. I know my mice love me and that's all that matters get a job people. *I'm sure you guys have learned things the hard way before.*


Ignoring that this is an extremely immature and stroppy post, yes I have learned things the hard way before. I kicked myself at the time and after for not listening to people who were trying to give me good advice, and looked back a few years later with great embarrassment (as you WILL do too).

There is a fab quote:

"The wise man is not the man that learns from his mistakes, but instead, he learns from the mistakes and advice of others before making them himself"

It's hard to listen to and follow this quote at your age, but if you do, you will essentially nail life!


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

These mice that love you, are they the same mice whom you've lost five of in a couple of days, and the same ones you were considering selling on another thread for a while, in order to think about getting a rat? :-(


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