# Urgent!!



## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

Hi everyone i am new to this forum, i need some help i have a 1 year old female who i suspect is pregnant she was on heat 3 weeks ago and managed to get out she did not return till the next day, i was going to get her spayed and had even taken her to the vets however after explaining to the vet that she got out he was suspicious on her being pregnant aswell i wont be aborting any kitten at all so dont lecture me about it. more to the point was told to look in a change in her nipples they have become larger but cant tell if they have always been pink or if they got" pinker" i will upload some pics if someone is able to tell


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## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

I only managed to get couple pics up


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Why are things urgent? Is there something you need or want to do regarding your cat?


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## TallulahCat (Dec 31, 2015)

If she got out whilst she was on heat it's pretty much guaranteed she will be pregnant. This sounds like the change in the nipples that the vet told you to expect.

Cat pregnancy lasts about 9 weeks, so you still have about 6 weeks to prepare a room for her to have her kittens in. Though if you don't have a safe, quiet space for her, it may be worth getting in touch with rescues now to see if any of them can take your cat in until the kittens are ready to be separated from mum.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Atique said:


> i was going to get her spayed and had even taken her to the vets however after explaining to the vet that she got out he was suspicious on her being pregnant aswell i wont be aborting any kitten


Sorry but why have you waited until she's a year old?

Cats should be spayed as early as possible & ideally around 4 months old

As for your girl, you've got a while to go yet and can only suggest you ensure she's got lots of good food to help the kittens develop and keep her healthy - I'd contact a rescue to see if they can help with rehoming the kittens when the time comes as they will be able to undertake home checks of potential adopters


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Cats are induced ovulators - they only ovulate if mated - and it is then almost 2 weeks before implantation. Hence a female who is not intended to breed who escapes in call can be spayed a few days later and there won't be anything there to be aborting.

However since you have decided to let her have kittens (so you are now a breeder), you have 6 weeks or so to do plenty of online research. iCatCare has a lot of good advice. Also if a vet bill of £1,000 would be difficult you have 6 weeks or so to work out how you will cover it if she is unlucky and needs an out-of-hours C-section.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Are you at home all the time? If not, can you arrange to have a week or 10 days at home around the time your girl is due to kitten? Sometimes the birth can go badly wrong especially with a maiden queen who may not know what to do with the kittens when they are born and might be frightened during the whole process. I know one person who thought she could leave her girl to get on with it by herself and she came home to a blood spattered house and dead kittens everywhere.


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## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

TallulahCat said:


> If she got out whilst she was on heat it's pretty much guaranteed she will be pregnant. This sounds like the change in the nipples that the vet told you to expect.
> 
> Cat pregnancy lasts about 9 weeks, so you still have about 6 weeks to prepare a room for her to have her kittens in. Though if you don't have a safe, quiet space for her, it may be worth getting in touch with rescues now to see if any of them can take your cat in until the kittens are ready to be separated from mum.


Hi thanks for relpying to be honest iv never paid attention to her nipples before so i wasnt sure if they where her normal color...bella does have plenty or rooms (options) where she could have her kittens i will prepare a couple of boxes for her and temp her in i have the means to look after bella and her "kittens" she is now indoor and has noway of getting out so will have to wait a couple of weeks to see if she does appear pregnant if not then she will be spayed.


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## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

Thanks


OrientalSlave said:


> Cats are induced ovulators - they only ovulate if mated - and it is then almost 2 weeks before implantation. Hence a female who is not intended to breed who escapes in call can be spayed a few days later and there won't be anything there to be aborting.
> 
> However since you have decided to let her have kittens (so you are now a breeder), you have 6 weeks or so to do plenty of online research. iCatCare has a lot of good advice. Also if a vet bill of £1,000 would be difficult you have 6 weeks or so to work out how you will cover it if she is unlucky and needs an out-of-hours C-section.


 Hi Thanks for replying just to clear a few things im not a breeder nor did i let her out on purpose to mate....yes she may have six weeks before she has them but thats fine they WILL be well look cared for and if in a couple of weeks she turns out not to be then she will be spayed also it would not be "difficult" for me to cover any cost as money is not an issue


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## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

QOTN said:


> Are you at home all the time? If not, can you arrange to have a week or 10 days at home around the time your girl is due to kitten? Sometimes the birth can go badly wrong especially with a maiden queen who may not know what to do with the kittens when they are born and might be frightened during the whole process. I know one person who thought she could leave her girl to get on with it by herself and she came home to a blood spattered house and dead kittens everywhere.


Hi Yes im home i will be keeping her indoors and she will be well cared for and will be watched through out the coming weeks also this "person" who left her cat alone that far in her pregnancy should not be allowed to own pets..


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## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

Have y


gskinner123 said:


> Why are things urgent? Is there something you need or want to do regarding your cat?


 Hi have you read the post? I wanted to know if they color of her nipples have pinked or is it normal color as iv never paid attention to her nipples before thats why i added pics you may want to have a look at them while you read the post


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

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I'm confused by Ur seemingly defensive stance - if U were absolutely certain long-before the event that U didn't want to "abort" a litter, why didn't U spay her at the appropriate time?
Then U wouldn't have a possibly-pregnant F cat, or need to worry that she'd be embroiled in fights with other cats - breeding is not a billing-&-cooing affair among felines, it's often a screeching, claws-bared barroom brawl. Tomcats can be very aggressive when breeding a female, especially if she's not wowed by his suave approach & tries to send him packing.
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Female kittens are notoriously precocious breeders; they can be pregnant at 4.5-MO or 5-MO... which is not good for the dam, nor for her litter. Her body diverts nutrition to the pregnancy, & away from her own still-growing skeleton, muscle tissue, etc. Plus she's just a pre-teen herself, undersized & underdeveloped, so providing for the rapidly-growing litter is very taxing, & DELIVERING them thru her small pelvis is a tough job.
Kittens from very-young mums are often stunted & don't thrive, & their mother struggles mightily while in labor.
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What was the point of waiting / keeping her intact, if U **didn't** want to be "a breeder"...?
Why the disdain for breeders, as obviously SOMEONE allowed a cat to breed, in order to provide U with the pet U love?
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And like it or lump it, if she gives birth to even -One- litter, U are _ipso facto, _an official breeder - carefully planned is way-better than "accidentally", but intentional or not, *if U own a female when she gives birth,* U're a breeder.
U just joined a club - butt-first & a breech birth Urself, but U're now a member.
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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Atique said:


> this "person" who left her cat alone that far in her pregnancy should not be allowed to own pets..


Same could be said for people who don't spay, allow their cat outside to mate with random toms, putting them at risk of std's and other problems......



Atique said:


> Hi have you read the post?


We all read the post, the 'urgent' title doesn't correspond with post content.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

_Hi have you read the post? I wanted to know if they color of her nipples have pinked or is it normal color as iv never paid attention to her nipples_
You don't know what's normal for your cat but you expect perfect strangers to be able to tell from a photograph. Seriously?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

You're not ab reeder? Well, define breeder! I think you'll find you are!


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm confused why you are waiting for 2 weeks. Why not pop her along to the vet now and get her spayed? As already stated previously she is so early in her pregnancy (if at all) so a very simple operation. It is what's best for your cat.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Atique said:


> Have y
> Hi have you read the post? I wanted to know if they color of her nipples have pinked or is it normal color as iv never paid attention to her nipples before thats why i added pics you may want to have a look at them while you read the post


I did read it. Twice, in case I had misunderstood. I simply didn't understand the urgency in discovering whether others felt, from the photos, she had pinked up or not.


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## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

leashedForLife said:


> .
> .
> I'm confused by Ur seemingly defensive stance - if U were absolutely certain long-before the event that U didn't want to "abort" a litter, why didn't U spay her at the appropriate time?
> Then U wouldn't have a possibly-pregnant F cat, or need to worry that she'd be embroiled in fights with other cats - breeding is not a billing-&-cooing affair among felines, it's often a screeching, claws-bared barroom brawl. Tomcats can be very aggressive when breeding a female, especially if she's not wowed by his suave approach & tries to send him packing.
> ...


Wow what isit with everyone being so judgemental im all for having my cats neutered etc i have 2 other neutered cats i have also a large amount of strays in my garden (20+) iv taken my own time out an hve them all spayed and fleaed wormed eartipped etc im working along side cats protection who infact are not to fussed with bella being pregnant as they are pleased with the way they are being cared for my vet did not even push me to abort kittens...if shes pregnant she will have the kittens and will neuter her once the kittens are weaned of...this is suppose to be a site where people can come and get advise and help obv not..big mistake on my side will contact my vets and get a better answer.


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## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

After reading everyones comments and replys iv decided to contact the vets and seek advise from him...this forum was a waste of time i needed advise not everyone to be so judgemental all of a sudden im a bad pet owner cause the cat RAN out lol. There will be a time some1 will really need help and come to this forum i do feel for them as they wont be getting advise but judgement and accusations....


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Atique said:


> will contact my vets and get a better answer.


You do that. 
It's a shame you don't like the replies you got. Advising you to get a one year old female that might or might not be a couple of weeks pregnant spayed now is exactly what I like to read on a forum for cat advice. I hope your vet also recommends the same.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Atique said:


> After reading everyones comments and replys iv decided to contact the vets and seek advise from him...this forum was a waste of time i needed advise not everyone to be so judgemental all of a sudden im a bad pet owner cause the cat RAN out lol. There will be a time some1 will really need help and come to this forum i do feel for them as they wont be getting advise but judgement and accusations....


Cats do run out, especially cats in call, which is why she should have been spayed months ago.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

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oh, piffle, Atique -
plenty of ppl have come to PF-uk with genuinely urgent needs, & have been advised to the very best of any member's ability & knowledge. Folks have come with cats giving birth & in distress, neonatal kittens who are fading by the hour, etc - nobody stops under those circs to Q when, how, or why that F got pregnant, the issue to be dealt with is the genuine EMERGENCY.
The queen who has been in unproductive labor for hours & is obviously close to exhaustion, the kittens who can only weakly suckle, & similar.
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A - Urs isn't an emergency.
B - U created the 'urgency', by not desexing her months ago.
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It's not an *emergency!* b/c, as U so clearly stated, IF she's preggo, she's by guess & by God carrying them to term - so one of 2 things will happen, either she's preg, in which case approx 63 to 65 days after mating, she will go into labor, with or without drama / obstetric intervention, & there will be another unplanned litter in the world...
or alternatively, as we all sincerely hope, she drew a blank, is NOT preg, & she can be spayed ASAP without 'aborting' any offspring.
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Good luck, hopefully she's barren. Unfortunately, i doubt it - but we can hope.
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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I'm afraid OP that a lot of posters on this forum have years of experience in the cat world, this place is bursting with knowledge and these people give their time for free to help and advise others.

However, we see the same story over and over again. After a while you get a bit tired of trying to sugar coat things, advice becomes more direct and straight to the point.

I agree with others. Your girls should have been done months ago.

There is no shortage of moggie kittens in this country, far from it. I have five rescues here, all were "accidental" matings I am sure. Five individual lives which were bred with little thought. And they're not a minority, go on any rescue website and you will see hundreds upon hundreds of feline faces staring out from the web page. All without a home.

Breeding should be done with forethought and prior planning.

Like it or not if your girl has this litter you ARE a breeder.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

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I want to add that no-one here "hates" U, but we're not going to hold U up for all the world to emulate, as a model of How To Be a Responsible Cat-Owner, either. U let Ur girl down - yes, she escaped, but cats are infamous as escape-artists, & that goes tenfold when the particular cat is a F in estrus.
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My sire's refusal to spay the only F Siamese we had [after the old-age deaths of our dam-&-daughter queens, at 19 & 21 YO, respectively] resulted in 6 litters of 4 kits each, over a 7-year period - this despite our very best efforts to keep her harebrained self AT HOME, & indoors, *away *from any M cat.
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Cocoa was a yowling maniac when she was in season, drove us all insane, howled up & down the stairs all day & half the night, & was incredibly determined to get out & meet her paramour - a brown-tabby tom i'd have known on sight, if i'd ever seen the stinkin' lowlife scalawag, cuz all his kids were dead-ringers for Dad-cat, with only minor variations - white toes vs a white anklet, or no white at all & brown-toes, or a dime-sized white locket on the chest vs none.
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One of those escapes was via a 2nd-story window - i heard a terrible crash, & ran to see what happened, but I was on the 3rd floor - all I could see was the window-screen below protruding from the frame, as if a grenade had gone thru it.
I barreled downstairs & outside via the 2nd-floor ground level porch, but there was just a hole in the aluminum mesh screen, & no clue what made it. Indoors, there was a medium-sized glass vase on the floor under the sill, in pieces.
It took about 20-mins to realize that the moaning, shrieking, yowling cat was missing - & by that time, she was over the river & thru the woods.
I had visions of her with 2 broken legs, dragging herself along, but no - she came back hale & hearty in 72-hours, acting as tho nothing had happened.
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One of the worst aspects of her near-annual litters for me was that she ALWAYS gave birth when we weren't home, & she ALWAYS killed the 1st kitten - invariably the biggest, most-beautiful baby.  She'd fight the labor instead of relaxing & letting it progress; she was always a neurotic cat, & she'd kill the firstborn for her pain.
Then she'd be a devoted if somewhat erratic mum to the remaining 4. Once they were good-sized & roaming, about 5-WO, she'd often palm them off on poor Wolf, who'd lie there looking embarrassed with kittens clambering over him playing King of the Hill, or worse, trying to nurse his long silky belly-hair, pricking him as they kneaded nonexistent breasts.
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So yeah, cats escape - they're also unbelievably fertile, Fs can come into estrus every 28-days or so all thru the long-day months, & both genders will move heaven & earth to reach a prospective mate & breed.
A tomcat in State College, PA, did the window-screen trick from the other side - ripping *into* our apartment to molest the 5-MO F kitten, who wasn't in full call or even, so far as we knew, in an early stage of estrus; I woke up to the most godawful screaming, snarling, growling cat-fight imaginable, at about 3-AM. The tomcat hadn't taken Ming into account, my adult spayed F - the kitten was hiding under the sofa, terrified, her eyes the size of saucers & every hair on her body erect, while Ming ripped the H*** outta the big tom; the room reeked of cat-p*ss, as the tom had sprayed in fright & anger while they raged around the room, upending table-lamps & clawing across furniture.
He finally lunged back out the same window he'd come in, both ears torn & with blood oozing here & there - I slammed the window shut before Ming went out after him, her tail a bottle-brush & her growl murderous.
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It took a couple of hours to put the room to rights, with broken lightbulbs, cat-pee on the walls & floor, blood, clumps of hair, & cat-pee on the sofa cushions; it took almost that long for Ming to stop prowling & growling. Nobody touched her, or even went near her - not even the kitten, still hiding.
The next morning, i looked over both cats; they were virtually untouched, Ming had a shallow scratch on her nose, another slightly-deeper on her shoulder - You-too had some hair missing from her back & upper tail, but no blood was shed.
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Then i went to the neighbor, owner of the tomcat, & told him he was bl**dy lucky not to have a whopping vet-bill for MY cat's care, & to keep his dam*ed cat at home, thanks - plus, neutering him would be a real smart idea.
Lastly, having phoned my landlord to explain & ask him to please fix the screen [we had no AC], my *landlord *visited the neighbor, & presented a bill for replacing the screen.
It made for rather tense neighborly relations, but he did keep his dam*ed cat at home from then on - which was a distinct improvement, no more sprayed shrubbery & no more cat-fight serenades in the wee hours.
*And* - we got You-too spayed within a fortnight. Just in case.  Not "in case of pregnancy", as he hadn't managed to assault her other than by biting hair & pulling it out, but in case of puberty striking. No need for her to ever experience estrus.
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Cats will do completely bizarre, seemingly impossible things to have a chance to breed. It's good to keep this in mind.
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## Cherylcw (Apr 26, 2016)

Hi Atique,
I was kind of in your position a few weeks back. My male kitten (8months old) turned out to be female and had gotten pregnant on the one night that she escaped when my 7year of daughter let my dog out and the cat went running out too. Unfortunately she was 6 weeks gone by the time I found out, and I came on here for advise. And despite the fact that Teddy had been to the vets several times to have his Nads off and the vets said they weren’t dropped yet, and then weren't fully developed etc, I still got told on here that I was an irresponsible owner and got some very abusive pm's too. A lot of people were telling me that even though she was 6weeks into a 9 week pregnancy I should get her spayed and abort the pregnancy.
I was horrified at the idea of aborting so late and while it wasn't ideal (especially as I was due to go on holiday one week after her due date) my vet didn't agree and said to let the pregnancy proceed and the teddy would be just fine. 

Teddy looked like she'd swallowed a beach ball by the end and despite knowing her exact date as she only went out one time, she was 4 days overdue. I work short days at work but bought a cctv camera to watch her while I was at work to check if she was in labour. (so I could go straight home)
She'd been in the nest box for a couple of hours and when I got home from work she followed me upstairs, got on the bed with me and suddenly her plug went, 10 minutes later she had her first kitten and within 90 minutes she had 5 beautiful kittens (all on my bed) . She never yowled or cried throughout her Labour and infact purred none stop from the first kitten being born. She did everything, cleaned them, did the cord, ate the placenta, fed them, but wanted me there for reassurance, she kept reaching out to get my hand. She's an absolute natural mother constantly feeding and checking them.

When the kittens were 5 days old I went on my holiday and had my friend move in to look after teddy and the kittens and having got home today they're twice the size and have their eyes open. She is amazing.

I'd been given loads of horror stories about how she may kill them or abandon them or not know what to do cos of her age, but she definitely had the instinct. I watched a load of you tube videos and read up on sorting the cords, got formula in for them just in case, but thankfully none of it was needed.

Looking at your picture, I'd say yes I think she is pregnant and I'll keep my fingers crossed you have it as easy as I got it with teddy.

She had 5kittens, I'm keeping one, and I've got 10 people wanting the other 4 kittens.

I certainly never planned to be a breeder, (especially considering I thought I had a boy) but I certainly don't regret it now. And I can't understand everyone hating accidental litters so much. I'm sure they are where most of our cats came from, teddy certainly was, I found her advertised on the pets4homes website, and was happy to have got her/him from there.

If you ever want to chat send me a message x


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Cherylcw said:


> . And I can't understand everyone hating accidental litters so much. I'm sure they are where most of our cats came from, teddy certainly was, I found her advertised on the pets4homes website, and was happy to have got her/him from there.


Accidental litters are one of the main reasons we have cats languishing in rescue up and down the country. Cats and kittens without homes.

That's why I "hate" accidental litters.

Like I said in the previous post I have _five _moggies who were no doubt from 'accidental' litters. That's five lives which were bred because someone left the door open - there was no planning, no careful evaluation of breeding stock, no health tests. Five new lives because of a "whoops".

Five lives which could have ended so differently to where they are now.

People, not neutering/spaying cats are one of my biggest bugbears, there really is no excuse for it. The CPL even give FREE vouchers for a cat to be done, what more can the charities physically do to get owners to understand it isn't there cats God-given right to breed because they have working set of genitals?!

I understand that your vet had confused your girl for a boy (big difference) but the point remains the OP knew her cat was a female and she should have been done months ago.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

You're a completely different situation. You did everything responsibly. You'd gone to the vets numerous times to attempt to get your cat neutered. You were given medical advice that said he was a girl. You came on here and asked for solid advice, not just screaming at people when they didn't say what you wanted them to. You were willing to learn... Big difference.


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## Cherylcw (Apr 26, 2016)

I agree ideally the cat should have been done months ago, but so should all of the male cats out there that get the girls pregnant. I'd been keeping teddy in until "he" was done so he didn't get any girls pregnant, unbeknowing that she was the girl. The next morning there were 4 male cats in my garden. But people just seem to think it's ok to not get the boys done. 

And I've always done a lot for dog rescue, volunteering, walking, transporting etc. Similarly there are too many dogs in rescue, but I'd never be telling people you have to get your dog neutered.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Cherylcw said:


> And I've always done a lot for dog rescue, volunteering, walking, transporting etc. *Similarly there are too many dogs in rescue, but I'd never be telling people you have to get your dog neutered.*


Different ballgame entirely. That's like comparing apples to oranges.

How many people do you know who let their dogs out with no supervision? It is far easier to contain a bitch in heat then it is to contain a queen.

Accidental dog litters are also a personal bugbear of mine and another one that adds to the dogs languishing in rescues. That and the fools who buy a dog completely unsuitable for their own skills but that is also an entirely different ballgame.

I have 2 entire male dogs who have never bred a bitch in their entire life. Why? Because they've never been allowed to. They're not allowed to free roam like many cats are these days (my own included).

I have 3 female cats, all spayed. 2 males also all neutered.


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## Cherylcw (Apr 26, 2016)

I know it's completely different. What I was really getting at, is yes we know there are dogs and cats in rescue, and yes spaying and neutering MAY help reduce that (may, as there will always be people who want a puppy or kitten as opposed to an older rescue). 

I always have my animals neutered, as I don't /didn't want a litter, but on here I just find some people are very over forceful (and sometimes preachy) getting the neutering message across. Yes in an ideal world we would all get them neutered, but people may have their reasons not to. I feel people come on here for advice, not to be judged and abused the way some do (not saying you personally). A helpful "have /had you considered getting your cat spayed" would probably get a better response than having several people attack someone for not having had their cat spayed, and calling them irresponsible etc, that's just going to get the OP's back up. 

The abuse I got when mine was out of my hands was unbelievable, I'd come for help and advise and never expected the messages I got. I can only imagine what other people get.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Cherylcw said:


> The abuse I got when mine was out of my hands was unbelievable, I'd come for help and advise and never expected the messages I got. I can only imagine what other people get.


I've re-read your thread and can only see supportive and helpful messages. I'm sorry if you received nasty PM's - that isn't on 
Your situation was hugely different. OP has chance to spay her cat at only 2 weeks gone.

Sorry but I disagree about neutering - there is absolutely no excuse. It's simple. You get a kitten. You keep it safe inside. You get it neutered at 4/5 months old. When you get a kitten at 12 or 13 weeks old you should have the resources (money and time) to ensure it gets everything it needs for it's wellbeing and neutering should be top of that list.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Cherylcw said:


> I know it's completely different. What I was really getting at, is yes we know there are dogs and cats in rescue, and yes spaying and neutering MAY help reduce that (may, as there will always be people who want a puppy or kitten as opposed to an older rescue).
> 
> I always have my animals neutered, as I don't /didn't want a litter, but on here I just find some people are very over forceful (and sometimes preachy) getting the neutering message across. *Yes in an ideal world we would all get them neutered, but people may have their reasons not to.* I feel people come on here for advice, not to be judged and abused the way some do (not saying you personally).


I will disagree with you on the "MAY", irresponsible breeders and buyers are the reasons rescues are still running. Ethical breeders usually have a clause in a written contract stating the animal must be returned to them if the home does not work out, I've known ethical breeders drive from one end of the country to the other to pick up an animal they have bred. I've known others buy back animals who have gone into rescues. The also have a strict screening process (the odd ones do it get through now and again sadly) which they use to vet potential owners for their suitability.

Don't think I'm antibreeding, though. I love responsible breeding! All power to the people who are travelling the length and breadth of the country looking for the perfect match for their bitch, queen, mare etc. The ones who are up pondering health tests, who are showing or competing with their animals. The breeder's who are striving for the next generation to be better than the previous. God love them they are the backbone of their respective worlds.

People get preachy on here because they see the same posts over and over again, sometimes it has little to do with the OP but frustrations boil over at the sorry state of breeding in this country. Others just don't sugarcoat sh*t, often the straight talkers are the best at giving advice because they're not going to dress it up with flowers and dollies. Moreover, this is a written based method of communication. Even with emoticons it can be difficult to understand tone and meaning, these words on a screen are flat and lifeless, there are no hand gestures or facial expressions to go along with it. It's down to the reader to interpret the tone of the posters message, I know I've had many an argument over text messages because I have misread the tone of the message.

The bit I've bolded is the bit I don't really understand. I can think of literally no reason (other than your own exceptional circumstances) why an owner wouldn't spay/neuter their cats, it can't be down to price because like I said previously the CPL will give you a voucher to have it done. Free of charge! The only reason I can think of is if that owner is making a conscious decision to breed from their cats in which case of course a working set of genitals are required.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

"irresponsible breeders and buyers are the reasons rescues are still running."

I take it you are including BYBs there, and the people who get a kitten 'free to good home' and so on. Even if all that could be stopped, and it can't, you will still get rescues working with ferals.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> "irresponsible breeders and buyers are the reasons rescues are still running."
> 
> I take it you are including BYBs there, and the people who get a kitten 'free to good home' and so on. Even if all that could be stopped, and it can't, you will still get rescues working with ferals.


Very true  Serves me right for trying to type a decent post and stop Tequila from trying to steal my toast this morning :Shamefullyembarrased:Shifty


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## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

Cherylcw said:


> Hi Atique,
> I was kind of in your position a few weeks back. My male kitten (8months old) turned out to be female and had gotten pregnant on the one night that she escaped when my 7year of daughter let my dog out and the cat went running out too. Unfortunately she was 6 weeks gone by the time I found out, and I came on here for advise. And despite the fact that Teddy had been to the vets several times to have his Nads off and the vets said they weren't dropped yet, and then weren't fully developed etc, I still got told on here that I was an irresponsible owner and got some very abusive pm's too. A lot of people were telling me that even though she was 6weeks into a 9 week pregnancy I should get her spayed and abort the pregnancy.
> I was horrified at the idea of aborting so late and while it wasn't ideal (especially as I was due to go on holiday one week after her due date) my vet didn't agree and said to let the pregnancy proceed and the teddy would be just fine.
> 
> ...


Hi Thanks so much for taking your time out to reply...and also thanks for not being judgemental...this site is not what i expected lol had people saying all sorts however im not fussed as my pets are very well cared for.. amazing story about your cat i do think bella is pregnant and i will allow her to have them i will NOT spay a pregnant cat regardless of what any1 says im new to the site...was going to send you a private message but was not able workout how...


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Atique said:


> Hi Thanks so much for taking your time out to reply...and also thanks for not being judgemental...this site is not what i expected lol had people saying all sorts however im not fussed as my pets are very well cared for.. amazing story about your cat i do think bella is pregnant and i will allow her to have them i will NOT spay a pregnant cat regardless of what any1 says im new to the site...was going to send you a private message but was not able workout how...


You have to reach a certain amount of posts. I think it may be 25


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

You need to make 25 posts to private message. However I guess that isn't going to happen seeing as this site is "a waste of time" and you will get "better answers" from your vet. People on here are "judgemental" and make "accusations" so why stick around eh?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

_"my pets are very well cared for"
_
In terms of day-to-day care I expect they are, but letting a female cat not intended for a pedigree breeding program get to a year without neutering her is NOT good care.

Every time she calls her chances of breast cancer and pyometra go up, plus she has now been exposed to the risks of rough sex, and will undergo the risks of pregnancy, delivery, and raising kittens (think mastitis).

She can also get pregnant again while feeding her kittens so take great care to make sure she can't escape again.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

@Atique what I find very hard to understand is why you made sure all your strays were neutered but did not see the benefit for your own cat. Cats Protection are in the process of trying to bring in laws to stop people selling kittens they have 'bred' in this sort of manner, so I am surprised they are happy with this situation. I think you say your cat's name is Bella so not Sasha then?


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)

.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Cherylcw said:


> Hi Atique,
> I was kind of in your position a few weeks back. My male kitten (8months old) turned out to be female and had gotten pregnant on the one night that she escaped when my 7year of daughter let my dog out and the cat went running out too. Unfortunately she was 6 weeks gone by the time I found out, and I came on here for advise. And despite the fact that Teddy had been to the vets several times to have his Nads off and the vets said they weren't dropped yet, and then weren't fully developed etc, *I still got told on here that I was an irresponsible owner*
> and got some very abusive pm's too. A lot of people were telling me that even though she was 6weeks into a 9 week pregnancy I should get her spayed and abort the pregnancy.
> I was horrified at the idea of aborting so late and while it wasn't ideal (especially as I was due to go on holiday one week after her due date) my vet didn't agree and said to let the pregnancy proceed and the teddy would be just fine.


I knew something didn't sound right about your comments above, so I have just re-read your entire thread about your own pregnant cat and just as I thought *t*_*here is not a single post telling you that you are an irresponsible owner! *_ Everyone who replied on your thread to you was kind, sympathetic, helpful and supportive. As I recall one of the breeders even offered to give you personal support through the birth of the kittens!!

If you had some abusive PMs you should have reported them to the Mods. Please do not judge the rest of us on the basis of a couple of unpleasant comments made to you in private. 

Yes, a few people on your thread advised you to have your cat spayed and abort the pregnancy.. It is something that is done though not as late as 6 weeks into pregnancy perhaps. You were '"horrified" at the idea of aborting so late, and had no intention of taking such advice, so where's the problem? People were giving you their opinion, it doesn't mean you have to agree, or take their advice. No-one was trying to bully you into it.

Disappointing.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

QOTN said:


> I think you say your cat's name is Bella so not Sasha then?




Ooo have I missed something here???


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Cherylcw said:


> The abuse I got when mine was out of my hands was unbelievable, I'd come for help and advise and never expected the messages I got. I can only imagine what other people get.


Abusive messages should be reported. Harrassament either on open forum or by PM is against forum rules


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## Cherylcw (Apr 26, 2016)

I'm definitely not judging everyone as the same, but it felt to me at the time as being judged with quite a few people saying I should abort even though it was so far along.

Having a post saying "all a bit strange" and shouldn't I have been able to tell if it has a willy or not, came across as if I was making it up.
I did indeed have a very kind offer of help which is what made me realise not everyone on here was the same and I am by no means saying everyone on here is judgemental. 

All I'm saying is I find some people on here a bit forceful about spaying and having a bit of a go at people who haven't spayed for whatever reason (not at me) but I've seen people on numerous threads having a go that they should have got them spayed by now. 

Personally I am a fan of spaying and neutering, teddy is already booked in for hers in 3weeks, however as much as I agree with neutering, people need to realise it is the individual owners choice and if someone hasn't for whatever reason then that is down to them. If someone comes for advice about pregnancy I don't feel that they should have so many people trying to push their hand to getting them spayed if that isn't what they want. 

This is the first forum of this kind I have been on, and I didn't think to report the pm's, I didn't know if the mods would be of the same you should abort vein or not, so I decided to ignore and delete them. I don't need the extra stress. 

I'm not trying to cause an argument or get anyone's back up, the just isn't me, but I wanted to let Atique know she wasn't alone and I had been through a similar (albeit different circumstances) situation of having a surprise pregnancy. And that she had options. 

I'm sorry if I've upset other people, I just know how I was feeling when suddenly faced with a pregnant cat. I just wanted to help and show it could all be OK. 
I will always struggle with the idea of spaying a pregnant animal as I am quite anti abortion, but that can open a whole other can of worms, so maybe we shouldn't go there x


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## Cherylcw (Apr 26, 2016)

lymorelynn said:


> Abusive messages should be reported. Harrassament either on open forum or by PM is against forum rules


I know that now, but a month ago I didn't, and had just wanted help so wasn't expecting the upset x


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Cherylcw said:


> I didn't know if the mods would be of the same you should abort vein or not, so I decided to ignore and delete them. I don't need the extra stress.


Whether or not a mod agrees with a particular course of action is irrelevant. Harassment is harassment and will be dealt with accordingly.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Cherylcw said:


> shouldn't I have been able to tell if it has a willy or not, came across as if I was making it up.


I think you misunderstood my comment - I was referring to a vet, not yourself. Sorry for the confusion x


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## Cherylcw (Apr 26, 2016)

moggie14 said:


> I think you misunderstood my comment - I was referring to a vet, not yourself. Sorry for the confusion x


Thank you. I think at the time it just all seemed like everyone wanted me to do what to me was the unthinkable and i took some things wrong. It was after the "all a bit strange comment" I think that made me think the rest felt the same x


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Cherylcw - many of us on this forum are closely involved with Rescues, and we are therefore at the sharp end of the business, seeing daily what happens when owners are irresponsible and do not neuter their cats. I doubt that failing to neuter is very rarely an actual 'personal choice' and is much more likely to be due to not bothering to make the effort. In other words a 'decision' by default, and hardly something any responsible, compassionate person would find tolerable.

If an owner has not spayed a cat due to genuine shortage of funds then there are organisations such as CP who will provide vouchers towards the cost of the vet fees

I see no humane or sensible reason _not _to neuter a domestic cat, unless one is planning to use the cat as part of a planned pedigree breeding programme. So I do not beat about the bush when giving advice to anyone who asks if they should neuter their cat.

Incidentally when most Rescues home un-neutered kittens, the adopting owner is required to sign a contract agreeing to have the kitten neutered by the age of 6 mths. The owner has to ask the vet who carries out the operation to inform the Rescue it has been done. I do know some Rescues have taken back a kitten from owners who broke their contract by failing to neuter within the agreed period. So it is very much NOT down to the personal choice of the owner, and that is just how it should be.


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## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

moggie14 said:


> You need to make 25 posts to private message. However I guess that isn't going to happen seeing as this site is "a waste of time" and you will get "better answers" from your vet. People on here are "judgemental" and make "accusations" so why stick around eh?


You seem to talking to yourself il get on with it


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## Atique (Jun 4, 2016)

QOTN said:


> @Atique what I find very hard to understand is why you made sure all your strays were neutered but did not see the benefit for your own cat. Cats Protection are in the process of trying to bring in laws to stop people selling kittens they have 'bred' in this sort of manner, so I am surprised they are happy with this situation. I think you say your cat's name is Bella so not Sasha then?


Lol who is sasha?


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)

.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

@chillminx you have put perfectly into words what I was trying to say previously. Thank you.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Tigermoon said:


> Ooo have I missed something here???


I don't expect you have. Here we have a young man, at home all the time with 'the means' to cover all the costs of cat pregnancy, birth, lactation, rearing kittens, vaccinations including any complications which may arise, who also has 20+ strays in his garden he has collaborated with CP to TNR, not forgetting his other two neutered cats. He posts two fairly indistinct pics of possible pinking up, takes offence at the replies he receives and says he is going to ask his vet who will know. He is not short of time or money and obviously trusts his vet so why did he not take Bella to the vet first of all instead of asking people he knows nothing about on a forum?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
re the "decision by default" & estrus in F felines followed shortly thereafter by a "surprise" pregnancy, a similar pattern of guardian ignorance can be seen in some human parents -
obviously, immature F humans don't experience estrus, but their parents can appear & sound just as incredibly, astonishingly ignorant about human sexuality, fertility, & related issues - such as STDs - & amazingly casual about their own F offspring.
.
there was an infamous case in Altoona, PA, in the 1980s: a 12-YO girl was sexually molested by a 26-YO man for months on end. Inevitably, as young Lochinvar did not use any contraception & the child was completely unaware of the need for same, she got pregnant. Her dashing swain, known by name - no anonymous lowlife outtatown skulker but a local man - left town, under no cloud, not pursued by angry officers of the law, free as the proverbial bird - & her parents, born-again Christians, refused to allow an abortion despite medical advice urging them to do so, for their daughter's health & safety.
She was petite even for her age, underdeveloped & underweight.
The child, meantime, did not WANT a baby, was terrified of the prospect of caring for a child, being not much-more than one herself, & desperately pleaded with the Drs "don't make me have it".
Her parents are making appearances on local news, explaining self-righteously that every life is sacred, & their daughter's barsteward is no exception to that Sacredness of Human Life.
------------------------ _fast-forward 9-mos --------------------------------_
.
Their daughter gave birth in the local hospital, via C-section; she, her infant, & her parents all go home. It's after dark; her parents inform her she's a fallen woman & that an out of wedlock baby will shame them; they hand her a bag - backpack, small suitcase, whatever - with some of her clothes & some diapers for the baby, & put her out in the street.
I guess the _"Sacredness of Human Life" _policy doesn't include putting a roof over the defenseless heads of a 13-YO & a neonatal infant, nor providing them both with food, medical care, emotional security, shoes, clothing, etc, nor providing that girl with an education - do it?
Not even if that 13-YO is Ur own daughter, & the infant is Ur own grandchild - no exceptions; can't get soft on them fallen wimmen.
.
the child, with her bag & her baby, didn't know what to do or where to go. She wandered around for a couple hours, bawling her eyes out, & showed up on the doorstep of one of her teachers around 11-pm. That woman took her & the baby in, & reared them both - providing food, clothing, schooling, medical care, & everything else, including love.
Her parents, still living in the same town, ignored the continuing existence of their daughter AND her barsteward.
.
All of this leaves me with some unanswered Qs.
Like, what the H*** was that girl during the past 9-mos, BEFORE she gave birth to the baby, while she was carrying the fetus?... Was she in limbo? Would her virginity be restored if she resorbed the pregnancy, or miscarried?
Just when does "fallen womanhood" occur?
How come the parents were never charged with abandonment, child endangerment, etc, for putting that poor kid out on the street with an abdominal incision & a newborn?
What about the 26-YO arsewipe who raped a child barely into puberty repeatedly? How come he wasn't arrested, charged with statutory rape, prosecuted, AND made to pay child-support, starting with the obstetric & pre-natal exam bills & the medical bills for her C-section, anaesthesia, Rx meds, etc, plus thru the next 18 to 22 years, ending either with high school or college graduation?
Which of the adults were actual Christians, the parents who shoved her & her newborn out the door or the woman who took her & the baby in?
_And... what about Naomi? --- Tune in tomorrow to hear..._
.
Anyway, back to cats. _*If ya don't do nothin' & they're intact, babies are going to happen. *_That's the default decision. Whether Ur cat is siring them or giving birth is immaterial; U are contributing to an ongoing enormous problem.
.
.
.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Cherylcw said:


> Personally I am a fan of spaying and neutering, teddy is already booked in for hers in 3weeks,


Is there a reason she's being spayed so early? Aren't the kittens only 1-2 weeks old, so will be just 4-5 weeks when she's spayed?

Why not wait until 10-12 weeks, take mum and kittens in all together to get done, rather than risk her coming home and not wanting to continue feeding when they still very much need her to at 4-5 weeks old.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> Is there a reason she's being spayed so early? Aren't the kittens only 1-2 weeks old, so will be just 4-5 weeks when she's spayed?
> 
> Why not wait until 10-12 weeks, take mum and kittens in all together to get done, rather than risk her coming home and not wanting to continue feeding when they still very much need her to at 4-5 weeks old.


Agree - I ended up having to take Mia and hand rear her at 4 weeks as her owner got her mother spayed & she then wouldn't let the kittens near her 

I was glad it was done (it was her 2nd litter) but felt it should've been left at least another couple of weeks & was actually quite surprised the vet did it as it must've been obvious she was nursing


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

spotty cats said:


> Is there a reason she's being spayed so early? Aren't the kittens only 1-2 weeks old, so will be just 4-5 weeks when she's spayed?
> 
> Why not wait until 10-12 weeks, take mum and kittens in all together to get done, rather than risk her coming home and not wanting to continue feeding when they still very much need her to at 4-5 weeks old.


My girls are often calling again by 8 weeks ...


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> My girls are often calling again by 8 weeks ...


Mine call anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks after kittens. 
I'd expect most cats to call at least once in the 12 weeks


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

QUOTE, Tigermoon:

My girls are often calling again by [the time the kittens reach] 8 weeks age ...

/QUOTE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
QUOTE, spotty cats:

Mine call anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks after [their] kittens [are born].
I'd expect most cats to call at least once in the 12 weeks.

/QUOTE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
.
Our Siamese queens were usually beginning a kitten-estrus 14 to 21 days post-parturition...
which is Y responsible *breeders* confine nursing dams to interior rooms with their litters / food, water, litter box, plus wall-mounted exercise wheel, self-play toys, or other enrichment, *plus *a *minimum* of TWO doors between her & the outside world.
It's called an airlock - if she escapes door #1, door #2 is NOT to be opened until she's back in confinement. Period.
Not for the neighbor, mother-in-law, postie, package delivery... nobody, no-how, nothin'.
.
& remember, breeder is defined as any owner of a F animal when she gives birth, whether s/he planned the mating, adopted or bought her when she was already gravid, hadn't a clue she'd come into season let alone become pregnant... whatever the circs, it doesn't matter; OWNERSHIP coinciding with REPRODUCING = a breeder, even if it's "just 1 litter", even if it's a singleton birth, whether it's intentional or not.
.
"responsible" breeder is a lot more complex to define.
.
.
.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Atique said:


> will contact my vets and get a better answer


@Atique I do not know what your cat's nipples normally look like (nor does anyone else) so yes indeed, your vet will give you a far better answer than we ever could as that is what vets do for a living; I assume he/she will give you a bill too. Obviously, if knowing whether Bella is pregnant is a matter of urgency (as implied by the title of the thread) then a visit to the vet is the only way you will be 100% certain at this early stage.


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## Squeaks (Oct 16, 2014)

Without wishing to hijack this thread, I had a couple of observations.

I know a few people who haven't got their male dog neutered as they didn't want to demasculate them. And I see this fairly often on My Cat From Hell, where people believe there's no need to neuter their cat as they won't let them out/don't plan on mating them/don't see the need to take away their genitals unnecessarily. It appears there's a lot of anthropomorphism going on in these situations. Has anyone seen the film Jaws? The marine biologist Hooper says something along the lines of, "All this shark does is eat, sleep, and make little baby sharks. And that's it." I don't think people realise the urge intact animals have to mate, how it can take over their life whilst they are in heat etc. It's not like humans AT ALL. Perhaps we need a process of education to get the neutering message across, how it is actually far kinder (ironically perhaps) than leaving them entire.

Also, as Chillminx mentioned with rescues, all pedigree cats (and dogs) will have a neutering clause in their contract unless they're going to be used for breeding.

My other observation was watching Supervet, how many dogs come in with hip/elbow dysplasia or other conditions which I always associated as genetic diseases? Are these dogs just unlucky, or are they from BYB? Again, without berating the owners, perhaps more should be made of the point that responsible breeders will do their best to keep these conditions as rare or as symptom-free as possible through hip scoring and selected mating etc? My family have (had) Golden retrievers and all had a certain degree of hip dysplasia, but nothing that's ever caused them any problems. Both of them came from responsible breeders who hipscored etc. Buster's breeder actually took in a male puppy from another breeder that was supposed to be her new stud dog, but as he grew up she discovered his eye score wasn't good enough (I don't know enough about that this was to do with, I'm guessing a genetic eye condition) that she decided she couldn't use him as a stud and he went to a pet home instead. We still see him around with his lovely owners and I'm pleased she put the health of her litters above the convenience of keeping him as she originally intended.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
Ppl tend to desex toms they intend as indoor-pets, simply because their urine reeks so, life with them wouldn't be much fun - in an olfactory sense. Indoor/outdoor M cats may be left intact, especially if the cat has a cat-flap & comes & goes at will.
A neighbor i babysat for as a teen had an intact-tom who lived outside year-round, & he'd developed the unpleasant habit of spraying inside their garage - the smell was so bad, it seemed it ought to be visible, as green smoke or a blue fog.
I think she must have had no sense of smell whatever, as she never mentioned it or seemed to notice the awful fug. Their car, altho it was closed, carried a distinct whiff of tomcat in the upholstery.
.
As for pets & desex generally, in the USA S/N rates vary regionally - the farther South U go on the eastern half, east of the Mississip, the lower S/N rates are. Similarly on the Western side, the 4 Corners region - sparsely populated & economically shaky - also has a high ratio of intact pets. In relatively well-off Southern Calif, more than 60% of pets are neutered.
New England has the highest desex rates, with over 75% of pets - dogs AND cats - desexed.
.
As a direct result of the high pet-desex ratio, "accidental litters" in New England are rare, & NE shelters actually _*import *_pups & kittens from overcrowded southern & midwestern shelters for adoption here. This is a win/win, as the shelters with too many pets can avoid killing them, & the shelters with fewer pets get pre-screened pets to offer.
Obviously, every puppy or kitten & every adult pet that is placed by these New England shelters is neutered before adoption; many are desexed before they leave their home-state, by the 3rd party rescue-group that pre-screens the pets at the crowded shelter, & provides transportation to the shelter that will place them in an adoptive home.
.
Personally, i make no bones about it - when I talk to clients whose pup or kitten is still intact, i simply say that if this animal isn't intended for breeding, & U aren't going to SHOW in venues that require gonads, desex is a Good Idea.
Marking, roaming, escaping, etc, are all risks to their very lives - since folks who are made unhappy by their pets' behavior are often folks who give them up to a shelter, & they may or may not be adopted; if they do not find a home within some varying period, they may very well die young.
That doesn't even include the other aggravations & complications of intact pets - the mess of estrus & unwanted visitors to intact Fs, the aggressive displays & quarrels among suitors --- for owners of M pets, their "boy" going walkabout or off his feed & vocalizing b/c a bitch a half-mile off is in season, or he's marking indoors, or for owners of toms allowed to roam, he comes home battered from a cat-fight.
.
.
Snipping one's pet simplifies the owners life, & extends the pet's life - broadly speaking. Breeders obviously need intact animals to make babies - but they CHOOSE which animals become parents, & hopefully they choose with care. The health & structure of that prospective sire or dog, their temperament, all pertinent screens for heritable problems, etc.
And at the end of their breeding lives, these dogs & cats often have 2nd careers as neutered pets - with their familiar breeder, or in an adoptive home.
Some ppl criticize breeders who neuter & place their former studs & dams; i applaud them. "Pet limits" in the USA are now common, & laws that limit a household to a max of 3 adult animals make keeping one's former breeding stock impossible. U must find a good home for the former breeding animals in order to have any actively-breeding or even POTENTIAL breeding animals.
For the adopters, they get a wonderful pet who is extremely well-socialized, often well-trained & nicely behaved, plus gorgeous - what's not to like?
Adopting a washout dog or cat from a breeder is another way to get a beautiful pet; s/he didn't grow up the way the breeder expected, & cannot be bred - but they're still terrific pet-prospects, even if they aren't parental prospects. Such relatively petty details as a missing premolar or less-than-perfect tailset are of no concern to a pet owner.
.
.
.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

She is very likely to be pregnant, but if you are unsure you should indeed see the vet. They may be able to tell by palpating her abdomen, or they may need to perform an ultrasound scan to be sure. If she turns out not to be pregnant after all then you can spay her immediately.

Personally I would advise spaying despite the pregnancy - in a completely non-judgemental way. I'm just recommending what I believe is best for the cat. I love cats and I only want to recommend what is best for them, not the owners.

If that won't happen then you must do as you say you plan to - keep her in, spay her once the kittens come along and be extremely discerning in finding them new homes. You don't really want them going to places where they will not be spayed in time and end up as teenage mothers themselves, or with FIV contracted during fighting and mating.

And @Cherylcw:

*And I can't understand everyone hating accidental litters so much. I'm sure they are where most of our cats came from, teddy certainly was, I found her advertised on the pets4homes website, and was happy to have got her/him from there.
*
You're quite right that accidental litters are a source of pet cats, and there is nothing wrong with that per se, but the issue is that there are *more* cats than there are homes. Why do you think rescue charities are completely rammed to the hilt? The overproduction of moggy kittens born by accident or through BYBs cannot be defended. Those of us who 'hate' accidental litters have to deal with an aftermath you have probably never seen and hopefully never will. The public is largely sheltered from the realities of cat overproduction but some of us have seen things that would make you cry, and as cat lovers that's why we hate accidental litters.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
Emphasis below added in *bold & **color*:
.
QUOTE, Ceiling Kitty:

...

You're quite right that accidental litters are a source of pet cats, and there is nothing wrong with that per se, but the issue is that there are *more* cats than there are homes.

Why do you think rescue charities are completely rammed to the hilt? The overproduction of moggie kittens born by accident or through BYBs cannot be defended. Those of us who 'hate' accidental litters have to deal with an aftermath you have probably never seen, and hopefully never will.
*
The public is largely sheltered from the realities of cat overproduction, but some of us have seen things that would make you cry, & as cat-lovers, that's -why- we hate accidental litters. *

/QUOTE
.
.
Precisely.
Garbage bags of dead cats, euthanized at a constantly-crowded shelter, are a pretty vivid illustration of pet overpopulation.
Euthanized pets being burned in a crematory behind the shelter, same thing.
.
Very few ppl "hate" the kittens who are born, they are entirely innocent - & very few "hate" the cats who produced them.
The adult or subadult cats who breed are driven by their hormones. But hating the FACT of unplanned litters? - oh, yeah.
.
.
.


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## Cherylcw (Apr 26, 2016)

spotty cats said:


> Is there a reason she's being spayed so early? Aren't the kittens only 1-2 weeks old, so will be just 4-5 weeks when she's spayed?
> 
> Why not wait until 10-12 weeks, take mum and kittens in all together to get done, rather than risk her coming home and not wanting to continue feeding when they still very much need her to at 4-5 weeks old.


Hi, 
It was my vet who advised me to get her in to have her done so early to prevent another litter. 
However I have spoken to my vet again, as teddy will be having her hernia done at the same time so it won't be through the side like most spays (which would make it easier for her to continue feeding without too much discomfort) she will have to have a midline spay,so we've decided to wait until the kittens are completely weaned so it doesn't get in the way of her feeding the kittens.

I'm having to remind my daughters constantly to keep the doors shut. Teddy was yowling like mad at the door the last 2nights so I'm not sure if she's in call again, but there's no way she's getting out.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Cherylcw said:


> Hi,
> I'm having to remind my daughters constantly to keep the doors shut. Teddy was yowling like mad at the door the last 2nights so I'm not sure if she's in call again, but there's no way she's getting out.


Can you fit a little sliding latch or some other lock on the door to be sure it can't be opened? Or depending on the door knob, a child proof cover on there.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Cherylcw said:


> <snip>
> I'm having to remind my daughters constantly to keep the doors shut. Teddy was yowling like mad at the door the last 2nights so I'm not sure if she's in call again, but there's no way she's getting out.


Sounds very like she is in call again. If she escapes she will get pregnant - again. How old are these daughters? Will a simple hook above where they can reach do the trick? Can you put Teddy in a room without a door to the outside?


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