# New Havanese owner needs advice...



## Ted&Sarah (Jun 14, 2009)

Hello,

My husband and I picked up our new Havanese puppy Ted just over a week ago and he is adorable. However, being first time dog owners I am getting very confused by the conflicting training methods that people use. He is currently just over 13 weeks old.

He cried the first few nights, which we expected while he settled in, but after that he slept really well right through to about seven. Just recently he has been waking up earlier and howling/barking at between 5-6am. We were going by the tough love method and just leaving him but are wondering after 4 or 5 really quiet nights why he has started doing this. He is in a pen at night with a bed and some newspaper down and he always poos 2 or 3 times during the night on the paper. We don't want to have to get up during the night so are hoping with time he will be able to hold it longer and the toileting will stop. We also take him out at 10pm to go and he usually does. We feed him at roughly 8am, 1pm and 6.30pm always after we have eaten. He has lots of play during the day but seems to like to sleep from about 8pm so it is difficult to get him up for his 10pm toilet outing - he needs carrying out! 

Should we be keeping him awake until we go to bed at 10pm? Maybe this will make him sleep through in the morning better.

Also are the meal times ok? Not sure why he needs to go in the night quite so many times. His toileting during the day is also very random, I take him out a lot and sometimes he will go (which is great) but it is very unpredictable!

Thanks


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I really think you should get up during the night. Its very distressing for a puppy to have to eliminate in or around their sleeping area.

Sounds like hes crying because he needs to go, and you need to act on this.

You should be taking him outside every 20 minutes, after feeding, after playing, and when he wakes up.


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## Ted&Sarah (Jun 14, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> I really think you should get up during the night. Its very distressing for a puppy to have to eliminate in or around their sleeping area.
> 
> Sounds like hes crying because he needs to go, and you need to act on this.
> 
> You should be taking him outside every 20 minutes, after feeding, after playing, and when he wakes up.


Thanks Nonnie, we just never know when we need to ignore his calls (those that are simply for attention) or respond to his calls - that may be for the toilet. We don't want him to think that we come whenever he calls.... How do we tell the difference?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

When you get up during the night, dont fuss him, dont talk to him, basically ignore him, apart form taking him outside and staying with him until he goes to the toilet.

He will learn that crying doesnt get him attention.


It is hard to know. Might be an idea to have a set time. I used to go to bed around 11/12 and then get up at 3am, then again at 6am.

If you have a set routine then its much easier for you, and for them.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Good advice from Nonnie.

You may find he DOES cry for attention to start with, but if you make sure you are very quiet - no fuss, no play, in fact no speaking AT ALL, not even any eye contact, he'll soon learn that night time is for sleeping apart from brief toilet visits.

Plus as he grows, as long as he's getting enough exercise and stimulation during the day, he'll start to sleep all night anyway, and the toilet visits will tail off.

ETA that is one adorable puppy


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## Ted&Sarah (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks for the advice. Last night I left the bedroom door open and got up as soon as I heard him stir but he had already been to the loo in his pen (on the newspaper). It did look as though he had just been though so I guess tomorrow I will set my alarm for a little bit earlier to try and get to him before he goes. So it seems he makes noise after he has been not before. 

I also found this morning he was reluctant to settle back down again after I took him out. It was about 6am and we don't want him to wake up until 7.30am when we both get up.

I think in the morning he might be hungry as he never eats much at dinner time. I think I will try reducing his lunch amount and increasing his dinner (which he has around 6.30pm) so hopefully he won't feel so starving in the early hours.

Still no clue about his poo schedule though - he seems to not need to go after eating at all. Yesterday there were two in his pen in the morning and then he didn't go again until about 5pm! Why can't he hold it like that overnight??


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Ted&Sarah said:


> Thanks for the advice. Last night I left the bedroom door open and got up as soon as I heard him stir but he had already been to the loo in his pen (on the newspaper). It did look as though he had just been though so I guess tomorrow I will set my alarm for a little bit earlier to try and get to him before he goes. So it seems he makes noise after he has been not before.
> 
> I also found this morning he was reluctant to settle back down again after I took him out. It was about 6am and we don't want him to wake up until 7.30am when we both get up.
> 
> ...


If you're going to get up in the night you might as well take the newspaper away - he thinks it's fine to use it so why would he wait?


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## JuNeil (Apr 30, 2009)

Just thought I would add a little comment even though we are still learning with our 4 month old pup.

I would agree with maybe for a couple of nights setting the alarm for about 2 or 3 to go down and take him out. Also would agree with the no fussing rule. I didn't even speak to Bentley when I got up in the night which is quite easy when your eyes won't even open!! He was just put outside until he did something or not then it was straight back to his cage. He now goes through the whole night with only the odd wee which we can cope with. If you have got a hard floor in the kitchen, I would also agree with taking away the newspaper as this gives them the go ahead. 

As I said - I am no expert yet but the advice from people on here is really good especially the more experienced dog owners. Hope it all helps. I was really concerned aswell when we first got our pup but believe me they do start to get into a routine. You just need to put every bit of energy into them for at least a month until they learn - our pup is a bulldog who are known for being very stubborn but even he has finally learnt to hold on.

I was getting up during the night every night for at least 3 weeks and thought what have I done! It is totally worth it though and I wouldn't change it for the world


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## Ted&Sarah (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks JuNeil,

I am sure we will get there, just going through that difficult fustrating phase! He has peed inside twice today right in front of me, the trouble is I can't spot when he is squatting as it looks just like sitting. He also does it right after I have taken him out - aagghhh!

I do give him lots of praise when he goes outside but he seems to also think it's fine to go inside - not sure how to crack this one...


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## JuNeil (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi again,

Unfortunately they do need watching all the time. We didn't let Bentley out of the kitchen until we'd had him at least 2 weeks. I felt as though my whole life during that time was spent sitting on the kitchen floor! 
He does still wee sometimes if he thinks we aren't watching - just out of laziness more than anything else. When we first got him, if we managed to catch him in the act, we used to say NO firmly, pick him up and take him straight outside. 
It does feel as if you are going in and out of the house constantly but it does seem to work eventually. We also rewarded after every wee and poo and still do. Again this means that we have to go out with him most of the time but he has even been known to squeeze another wee out just so he gets a treat!
We get the low fat tiny treats so that he doesn't get overfed.
One advantage to a new puppy, it stopped me thinking about eating myself as I didn't get chance and the amount of times I got up and down was unbelievable. I definitely lost a bit of weight - bonus:thumbsup:
Julia


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

I totally sympathise with the whole houstraining malarkey.

Despite following every single bit of the advice I've given on here religiously, my pup took AAAAAAAAAAGES to crack it. I think that some dogs do just pick it up quicker than others - it's just that the more vigilant you are, the better.

It helps vastly if the breeder is willing to take the time to do a bit of groundwork too. My pup was used to soiling on lino and therefore carried the habit home with her - whereas I've known people who've had pups whose breeders have made a bit of a start with housetraining and they've been clean within a couple of weeks.

It's a bit "luck of the draw" but they do get there - eventually 

Same with chewing - some dogs NEVER chew, others chew for England, no matter how much exercise, training, stimulation, company and suitable chew toys they are given *looks pointedly at brown dog at feet*


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## JuNeil (Apr 30, 2009)

Totally agree with above comment re breeders input - I think we were lucky because our pup was used to going on pee pads before he came to us and just carried on. We then progressed to near the back door then outside.

Mind you - I am not going to sound too proud just yet as I have heard bulldogs have a tendency to go backwards if you don't keep up the routine for quite a while. Thank goodness its summer so I don't have to go in and out all the time when its freezing!


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## Ted&Sarah (Jun 14, 2009)

It's good to read other people's experiences of toilet training - at least it makes me feel like I am not doing it all wrong!

When we first got Ted we put him in a pen with a comfy bed and some newspaper down on the floor. He was initially noisy at night which we expected and then a few nights in he began to settle. Now he seems to be really noisy at between 4-6am until we get up at 7.30am. This is really tiring us out as it is relentless. Any suggestions how we can get him to sleep through a bit longer?

Also, does anyone know whether it is better to give the evening meal earlier (5pm ish) or later (7pm ish) so as to try and avoid toileting in the night? He doesn't seem to go after eating as many suggest but seems to be religiously going twice in the night. Up to now we have been feeding him at about 6pm and taking him out at 10pm before bed. He doesn't always go at this time - just occasionally...

Thanks!


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## JuNeil (Apr 30, 2009)

Ted&Sarah said:


> It's good to read other people's experiences of toilet training - at least it makes me feel like I am not doing it all wrong!
> 
> When we first got Ted we put him in a pen with a comfy bed and some newspaper down on the floor. He was initially noisy at night which we expected and then a few nights in he began to settle. Now he seems to be really noisy at between 4-6am until we get up at 7.30am. This is really tiring us out as it is relentless. Any suggestions how we can get him to sleep through a bit longer?
> 
> ...


What about splitting his meals into 4. We feed Bentley 4 times a day at 7.30am, 12.30am, 5.30pm and 9.30pm. (Obviously the portions are a bit smaller) Once he has had his last meal he settles down and we take him outside just before we go to bed which is quite late in our house! Ted might be getting hungry for his breakfast which is why he gets noisy.

Just another thought anyway - I know all puppies are different. Bentley is only now starting to go down to 3 meals at 4 months old. Let us know how you get on.


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## Ted&Sarah (Jun 14, 2009)

JuNeil said:


> What about splitting his meals into 4. We feed Bentley 4 times a day at 7.30am, 12.30am, 5.30pm and 9.30pm. (Obviously the portions are a bit smaller) Once he has had his last meal he settles down and we take him outside just before we go to bed which is quite late in our house! Ted might be getting hungry for his breakfast which is why he gets noisy.
> 
> Just another thought anyway - I know all puppies are different. Bentley is only now starting to go down to 3 meals at 4 months old. Let us know how you get on.


Yes, we thought this too, I think I will stick with 3 meals as that is what the breeder was feeding but we are going to try spreading them out more and see what happens!


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## Ted&Sarah (Jun 14, 2009)

The latest discovery is that he is toiletting within the first three or four minutes of being put in his pen. We put him in, hid around the corner and watched him in the mirror. After some whining and barking he quickly did a pee. We then immediately repremanded him and took him straight out. This was repeated five times in an hour, with the last "job" being a poo. 

He had been outside for all of the previous hour, so had plenty of chance to do what he needed. 

So the conclusion has to be that this is either a stress reaction or marking? If so, how do we proceed? It is surely just as important that he is able to be alone, as it is that he is toilet trained? Any ideas??!!


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## JuNeil (Apr 30, 2009)

Ted&Sarah said:


> The latest discovery is that he is toiletting within the first three or four minutes of being put in his pen. We put him in, hid around the corner and watched him in the mirror. After some whining and barking he quickly did a pee. We then immediately repremanded him and took him straight out. This was repeated five times in an hour, with the last "job" being a poo.
> 
> He had been outside for all of the previous hour, so had plenty of chance to do what he needed.
> 
> So the conclusion has to be that this is either a stress reaction or marking? If so, how do we proceed? It is surely just as important that he is able to be alone, as it is that he is toilet trained? Any ideas??!!


I'm afraid little Ted has got me stumped - not that it takes much with my limited knowledge! I'm sure you will get some more advice on here. Good Luck x


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

it could be stress/seperation related.you could try leaving the radio or tv on for him, or give him a blanket/item of clothes that smells like you. you could also try giving him a treat before you leave for bed, we did this with ours before bed and before we left the house so they associate you leaving with good things. ie food/stuffed kong.


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## Ted&Sarah (Jun 14, 2009)

cassie01 said:


> it could be stress/seperation related.you could try leaving the radio or tv on for him, or give him a blanket/item of clothes that smells like you. you could also try giving him a treat before you leave for bed, we did this with ours before bed and before we left the house so they associate you leaving with good things. ie food/stuffed kong.


Thanks, we left him a kong with peanut butter in last night and although he still got very vocal at 4am it was the first time since we have had him that he hasn't done a poo all night  Hopefully this will continue and I can work on reducing the noise!

Turns out I was wrong - just cleaned up his pen and found a poo squished to the floor under the paper and one in his bed...not so good after all...


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