# Average Litter Size For First Time Mums ...



## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi Blue our BSH is reaching the third week of pregnancy on Saturday (yet to be confirmed) I was just wondering what the average litter size is for first time mothers and what sort of birthing box should be provided for her as she likes sleeping high up in wardrobes which is worrying as I hope she does t give birth up there, has anyone ever used crates as a birthing box ? 

Thank you


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

DaffodilCavies said:


> Hi Blue our BSH is reaching the third week of pregnancy on Saturday (yet to be confirmed) I was just wondering what the average litter size is for first time mothers and what sort of birthing box should be provided for her as she likes sleeping high up in wardrobes which is worrying as I hope she does t give birth up there, has anyone ever used crates as a birthing box ?
> 
> Thank you


Hey, have you not got a breeding mentor? Seems most first time, registered breeders do you see 

Not sure about BSH litter sizes, sorry. But the best birthing box you can use is a cardboard box with old blankets, not sure about a crate but you want to make it easy for her to get in and out


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## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi no I've not got a mentor, thanks for replying I think cardboard box will be the best how do you encourage them to go in it ?


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

My BSH girl had four in her first litter unfortunately one was stillborn . I use a cardboard box for birthing and have a spare of the same size in case the first one gets soiled through the cotton sheets with the birthing.

I know when my girl is due so several days before confine her at night to a small kittening room - she then sleeps in her box for several days before giving birth so she knows exactly where it is - when it came to time to have her kittens last year she came and found me and then got me to follow her back to her box. Every cat is different, your girl will find somewhere which is quiet and where she feels safe - if you can second guess where this is likely to be then set her box up there.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

SamanthaGoosey said:


> Hey, have you not got a breeding mentor? Seems most first time, registered breeders do you see


Agreed that most do but not all - My BSH Queen is active registered but her breeder wasnt/isnt interested in mentoring.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

DaffodilCavies said:


> Hi no I've not got a mentor, thanks for replying I think cardboard box will be the best how do you encourage them to go in it ?


I'm going to have ask the obvious question - please don't be offended - is she registered on the active? Which registry is she with?


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## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi no she isn't registered


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Oh dear  

I'm afraid I am bowing out of this thread then. Another example of why early neutering has to be the way to go.


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## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

Sorry to hear that thanks for posting anyway


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Op what you are doing is so very wrong makes me very sad.:thumbdown:


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

DaffodilCavies said:


> Hi no I've not got a mentor
> 
> ..cause they don't know im breeding from the cat as I should have had it spayed.


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## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> DaffodilCavies said:
> 
> 
> > Hi no I've not got a mentor
> ...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

DaffodilCavies said:


> we love bsh's said:
> 
> 
> > Yes they do know I'm breeding from Blue and they have given me some much valued advice, no I shouldn't have had her spayed completely down to personal choice
> ...


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## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> DaffodilCavies said:
> 
> 
> > That says a lot about them too as breeders.
> ...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

DaffodilCavies said:


> we love bsh's said:
> 
> 
> > Just because a kitten/cat isn't registered doesn't mean that they weren't cared for exactly the same way as a registered cat will have been, registration is a matter of paperwork and does not show anything about a breeder or cat owner, I'm posting on here for advice on the average litter size of a first time mum can you offer me some advise on this? If not your on the wrong post
> ...


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

What is it either the breeder wasn't interested or they gave you valued advice...

Do you plan on breeding again xx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I take it its my post you are reporting  iv only told you the truth.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

DaffodilCavies said:


> we love bsh's said:
> 
> 
> > Just because a kitten/cat isn't registered doesn't mean that they weren't cared for exactly the same way as a registered cat will have been, registration is a matter of paperwork and does not show anything about a breeder or cat owner, I'm posting on here for advice on the average litter size of a first time mum can you offer me some advise on this? If not your on the wrong post
> ...


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Registration is PROOF that your cat is the breed that you say it is. 

Respectable breeders also health test and know their lines - where did you go for stud - are you completely and utterly sure that your cat isn't related to the stud - did he have all the health tests (and I'm taking genetic dna tests here not a quick once over by the vet) - was your queen snap tested before she went to stud? What blood group is she and the stud?

You have to see that us breeders that spend hours researching lines, doing the genetic tests, paying for registered cats so we really KNOW that our cat is a proper pedigree, keep our kittens till 13 weeks having them fully vaccinated, wormed etc before going to their new homes (and in my case neutered too) are going to feel put out be someone doing it by the back door. 

You have no PROOF that your cat is a BSH as she isn't registered so by trading standards law you can't sell them as BSHs but only as BSH like cats. Anyone can produce a false generational pedigree but you can't forge TICA or GCCF registration documents. 

And we spend a lot of money doing it RIGHT, we don't make any money because of it - so why should we bother if others don't? It really makes me sad.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

lymorelynn said:


> DaffodilCavies said:
> 
> 
> > I'm afraid registration isn't just about paperwork. Breeding unregistered cats is just adding to back yard breeding  I am not saying that all bybs don't care about their cats, I'm sure there are many who do. But somewhere along the line someone has betrayed the trust of a breeder who sold a kitten registered as non-active therefore not to be bred from. This isn't just for the benefit of the breeder but there may have been health reasons why that kitten shouldn't have been used for breeding.
> ...


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## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

danniandnala said:


> What is it either the breeder wasn't interested or they gave you valued advice...
> 
> Do you plan on breeding again xx


The breeder has given me some good advice, I'm seeing how blue copes with this litter before planning breeding her again


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

we love bsh's said:


> lymorelynn said:
> 
> 
> > I think the quotes are messing up lyn.
> ...


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

DaffodilCavies said:


> The breeder has given me some good advice, I'm seeing how blue copes with this litter before planning breeding her again


What if she doesn't cope very well...did you do all the correct tests first to make sure she was in top condition xx

Has blue got papers xx


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## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> I take it its my post you are reporting  iv only told you the truth.


No I'm not reporting your post your entitled to your own opinion I'd rather just be given the advice I've asked for instead of lectures on registered/ unregistered kittens


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

danniandnala said:


> What if she doesn't cope very well...did you do all the correct tests first to make sure she was in top condition xx
> 
> Has blue got papers xx


That's the point - she doesn't have papers. SHe was acquired without them ( probably from a BYB ) and is now continuing the 'tradition'. Appalling.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

spid said:


> That's the point - she doesn't have papers. SHe was acquired without them ( probably from a BYB ) and is now continuing the 'tradition'. Appalling.


So there's no way of knowing blue is a bsh xx


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

spid said:


> Oh dear
> 
> I'm afraid I am bowing out of this thread then. Another example of why early neutering has to be the way to go.


In pedigrees and moggies alike - what a lot of problems it would solve if it was to become the norm as opposed to the exception.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

:mad2::mad2: So we cant convince you to breed correctly, i don't think you'll get much advise here then.

sE=DaffodilCavies;1062901352]No I'm not reporting your post your entitled to your own opinion I'd rather just be given the advice I've asked for instead of lectures on registered/ unregistered kittens[/QUOTE]


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Except to say, as a punter and not a breeder, I would not buy an unregistered alleged ped, if I wanted a ped. If I wanted a moggy I would go to a rescue, and if I wanted a ped, I would go to a breeder who passionately loved their breed and did it properly as far as I could tell.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

Did you pick who blue mated with or did she become pregnant while roaming xx


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

You're not paying attention to what everyone is saying. It's not simply unregistered vs. registered, by being unregistered, you have no guarantee your girl won't have any of the genetic diseases related to the breed.

She hasn't been tested (has the stud even been tested?) and could be passing on diseases that could ruin the entire BSH breed if people continue to think being registered "is just a piece of paper".

There's regulations in check and you can trace back the family line to ensure you're not buying a ticking time bomb from someone who has treated their cats poorly. I'm not saying you haven't treated them well, but how does anyone know you haven't? Why would someone buy your kitten at the risk of spending a lifetime at the vets and crying over the kitten that you brought into this world?

If you're really interested in breeding and care about the breed, go to some shows, get registered, learn from other breeders and eventually get an ACTIVE registered girl. Do it the right way to help aid the breed


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## louise2 (Sep 23, 2012)

how did your girl get pregnant ? was it arranged .. 

i think people get offended because people spend alot of money on the love of the breed its about the breed NOT THE MONEY and the health and well being !! 

what if your girl as caught something?? because normally if you take your girl to an arranged stud then the breeder would need you to have snap test done she must be fully vaccinated and BE registered..also the stud would have had tests done and the breeder will show you this and have paper work ect,, 

what you have is a moggy she is not a pedigree bsh its a matter of paper work to say you have one im afraid:yikes: 

poor girl hope you spay her after as you clearly haven't a clue about breeding!!!:thumbdown:


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## crispycat (Apr 2, 2013)

you do not have a right to advise you want to hear just because you post here - this site is for responsible cat owners so if people feel that you are not doing the right thing they will say so.

I can only imagine there is one reason to breed and that is for financial gain - no responsible breeder (like several here will tell you) actually make loads of money because there is so much they put into the process.

however "nice and helpful" your so called breeder is they have not done the right thing by the cat and neither have you - so please don't keep demanding help - people can say what they wish and if you hand around long enough you will know they make a lot of sense


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## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

danniandnala said:


> Did you pick who blue mated with or did she become pregnant while roaming xx


Blue was mated with a selected stud that I have been choosing for months she was snap tested prior to mating and came back negative


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

DaffodilCavies said:


> Blue was mated with a selected stud that I have been choosing for months she was snap tested prior to mating and came back negative


well at least thats something...at least she wasnt mated with any tom dick or harry xx


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## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

danniandnala said:


> well at least thats something...at least she wasnt mated with any tom dick or harry xx


She was never being allowed to get pregnant by any other stud than the one I have carefully chosen, I know blues history and know that she is full BSH as her dad and mum are both registered however her mothers papers were never passed on so therefore blue couldn't be registered


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

DaffodilCavies said:


> She was never being allowed to get pregnant by any other stud than the one I have carefully chosen, I know blues history and know that she is full BSH as her dad and mum are both registered however her mothers papers were never passed on so therefore blue couldn't be registered


Or so the storey goes.

Would be nice if you answered my questions I nicely asked you.

What blood group are mum and dad?


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

DaffodilCavies said:


> She was never being allowed to get pregnant by any other stud than the one I have carefully chosen, I know blues history and know that she is full BSH as her dad and mum are both registered however her mothers papers were never passed on so therefore blue couldn't be registered


ve ot to understand that youve come on a pet forum where if your not a registered breeder who got hrought he proper channels we have our animals neutered early....

a lot of breeders wont like the fact that theres corners been cut...they work very hard at bettering the breed and spend time and money perfecting it...not breeding on the sly to make a quick quid...

it just seems as though your first introduction to the forum was how many will be born as in how much will i get thats how i took it xx


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## DaffodilCavies (Apr 26, 2013)

danniandnala said:


> ve ot to understand that youve come on a pet forum where if your not a registered breeder who got hrought he proper channels we have our animals neutered early....
> 
> a lot of breeders wont like the fact that theres corners been cut...they work very hard at bettering the breed and spend time and money perfecting it...not breeding on the sly to make a quick quid...
> 
> it just seems as though your first introduction to the forum was how many will be born as in how much will i get thats how i took it xx


No not at all the health of my kittens is paramount over how many she has if she only has one and he/she is healthy that is completely fine I'm more concerned of how many blue will be able to cope with as its her first litter


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

DaffodilCavies said:


> No not at all the health of my kittens is paramount over how many she has if she only has one and he/she is healthy that is completely fine I'm more concerned of how many blue will be able to cope with as its her first litter


you sound like you really care about blue you really do but without papers they will be just another litter of moggies(technically)and theres thousands in rescues all over the world needing homes xx


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Danniandnala maybe you should ask the blood group question,looks like im on ignore button.

Op do you know what blood groups they are? Im asking for the sake of your kittens lives.


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## danniandnala (Aug 31, 2012)

what blood group are the blue and the daddy xx


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

OP if you have your kittens best interest at heart, please give us details of blood groups of mum and dad


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## Lisac27 (Jun 8, 2012)

This is such a sad post. I think op wanted to experience breeding her cat and probably didn't know exactly what was involved. 

It is easy to go into breeding ignorant, with just the goal of cute kitties at the end. Unfortunately breeding is not all cuteness it is scary and heartbreaking.

I don't have much knowledge of BSH but I think there are issues of blood typing, between mum and dad. 
If I'm correct, then not knowing the blood group of mum and dad can be fatal for kittens. 
Everyone on here has very valuable advice and I know have helped me when I have been frightened out of my wits by my labouring cat and when one of my kittens was so poorly I thought he might die.
Op listen to the advice and after this litter get your girl neutered and if breeding is for you then find a registered cat and a mentor


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Shame too see another byb, glad I early neuter all my kittens - and of course mine come with a certified pedigree, not a classic story of why parents don't have papers

I hope you do the right thing after this litter and spay your girl. If you love the breed get a show neuter from a registered breeder, show him/her for a few years and then find a great breeder to get a kitten on the active from. 

There are more than enough moggies and bybs in the world, why would you willingly contribute to that? 


First litters, mine have had anything from 4-7. My girls are confined to my bedroom for the last week and not allowed into inappropriate spaces such as top of the wardrobe (that wouldn't be very responsible), they have large plastic storage tubs with a hole cut out for birthing in.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

spotty cats said:


> *Shame too see another byb*, glad I early neuter all my kittens - and of course mine come with a certified pedigree, not a classic story of why parents don't have papers
> 
> I hope you do the right thing after this litter and spay your girl. If you love the breed get a show neuter from a registered breeder, show him/her for a few years and then find a great breeder to get a kitten on the active from.
> 
> ...


BYB overload on here lately 

And the willingness to contribute to the moggie population can only be about money. In this instance it's hardly about bettering the breed.

I'd put money on these kittens being sold too early, unvacc'd etc. Cynical. Much.  ££££££££££££££££


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