# 14 week old puppy, too late?



## Charlie178 (Apr 30, 2012)

Hi there. Long time browser, first time poster!

My partner and I have been thinking of getting a puppy since we got married 2 years ago, and have now finally started to look after (boarder line obsessive) research and now being a good time. 

A colleague recommend a lady who has Jack Russell puppies for sale which is the breed at the top of our list. 
They are now 14 weeks old. From all the research I have done, 8-12 weeks is the key socialisation period to avoid behavior problems. Am i correct in thinking that the breeder should have socialised the pups and taken them outside/ in the car etc?

We are going round tonight to see the pups, if they have not been socialised, should i avoid? Or am i worrying about nothing!? :confused5:

Thanks!


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

IMO, yes she should have done and if she hasn't, I would avoid.


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## Huskybob (Apr 18, 2013)

14 weeks is older than usual but it isn't a problem if the breeder has worked on socialising them and getting them used to everday things. I think this would be especially important with JRTs.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

It is a few weeks later than I'd personally like, as the time you should bring a pup home (8 weeks - 12 weeks) is a critical learning period so meeting new people, dogs, new environment etc is really important in those weeks.

However as you've said if the breeder has been taking the puppies out and socialising them, getting them meeting new people etc then I wouldn't worry too much. 

The only thing is that if they haven't had their first vaccination you will have to wait up to a month before you can take the pup out on walks on a lead - you'll have to carry him around if you want to be safe. If however she has had them vacc'd (which personally I'd want them to be by this age), then that wouldn't be too bad as you'd only need to get the 2nd jab done and wait a couple of weeks at most.

I'd really quiz her about their socialisation, and if you're not happy then walk away (which is hard as puppies have a special power lol), but you don't want a pup that has problems with dogs/people as it grows up. You can rectify this of course and take it out to see as much as you possibly can but that critical period is called so for a reason!!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Well, my puppy came home last week at 15 weeks. But I trusted that his breeders were socialising him well and thankfully that appears to be the case. He's generally unfazed by pretty much everything and is housetrained too. 

I would avoid if the puppies haven't been well socialised and I'd also ask why the breeder has kept them back so long? Don't feel pressurised into taking one and don't let your heart rule your head ( even though that is very hard! ) Just think carefully. However, if everything appears to be ok and the puppies seem bold, friendly and confident I can't see no reason why that should be a deal breaker. 

Good luck!


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

I still think they are young enough for you do continue with socialisation etc - but think depends as per the above, if she is a responsible person would have done all that socialisation things with them and if she isn't then would avoid for the fact not a responsible breeder rather than if the dogs were a few weeks older than I wanted.

We got our dog (rescue) at 11 weeks (dumped in a park, then a week in the pound which must have been terrifying) and then he couldn't have his second injection until 14 weeks as had a puppy cold.

Who knows who bred him, but as soon as we got him we took him out in the car, carried him around the park, let him meet vaccinated dogs here at home, sat on the doorstep to see passers by, traffic etc, played him his puppy sounds DVD etc, and he turned out OK - was always quite a confident pup and he has turned out very well.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

I would want to know why the breeder has kept them on so long - I would ask about what socialisation has been done, and ask specifics, i.e how many people have they met, how may other dogs have they met, are they used to household noises - tv, hoover, washing machine, how many times have they been taken out, also make sure relevant health tests for the breed have been done, and see proof of this, if you are not 100% happy, walk away, it's gonna be hard if you have to but don't let your heart rule your head in this case, also find out why she choose to breed this litter. good luck!


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

I got my Beagle puppy at 13 weeks old and I have absolutely no regrets about it - in fact, I think we had less settling in problems because he was that bit older and more confident. I don't think we missed any kind of critical learning period. Charlie was easily socialised, did excellent in puppy training etc.

The breeder should have started socialisation - making sure the pup gets lots of interaction with their litter, the breeder's family, _maybe_ started working on toileting outdoors etc. But I wouldn't expect them to have done car journeys etc.

At the end of the day, the breeder having the dog for an extra couple of weeks isn't going to 'ruin' a puppy. It's the work YOU put in that will have the largest effect.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Charlie178 said:


> Hi there. Long time browser, first time poster!
> 
> My partner and I have been thinking of getting a puppy since we got married 2 years ago, and have now finally started to look after (boarder line obsessive) research and now being a good time.
> 
> ...


Socialisation and training needs to be ongoing but it is the first 16 weeks especially when puppies go through many critical stages of development where they need to be introduced to things, sights sounds and situations from early on at the start. If the breeder has been doing all the things that she should appropriate for the various age/ stages then you shouldn't have any problems. The socialisation does shape the dog to be, but also so does, the parents especially the mother dog too. If the mother is an anxious/stressful fearful dog then that can be reflected in the pups temperament and behaviour also. A puppy that is naturally more unconfident or fearful together with lack of habituation and socialisation will likely be even worse and more likely be prone to behaviour problems. Where the puppies are actually raised can play a part too. Ones that are born and raised outside or in a kennel, with limited human contact and experiences, can be worse also to ones that are raised in the home and used to people coming and going and all the normal household noises and experiences. If the breeders has habituated and socialised them then you may find they will be OK, but if they haven't together with the other things that are needed then you could possibly have a problem. If the pups have not been vaccinated either, then even if you vaccinated as soon as you got him/her then they wont actually be able to go out aside from being carried or in the garden for probably at least 3 to 4 weeks. You would be able to do trips in the car and carry them to get used to outside sights sounds, situations and noises though. They will not be able to have contact with unknown vaccination status dogs, or with the ground outside where other dogs may have defeacated.

This may help further, its called the Puppy Plan it explains the importance of socialisation and also at the end of the breeders section for 0-8 weeks there is a down load for experiences they should have been receiving, then at the end of the new owners section there is another down load plan.

Puppy Plan - Welcome to the Puppy Socialisation Plan website


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I don't think you'll have a problem as long as you keep up the socialisation. Dogs don't stop absorbing information and new things after 12 weeks! lol
Having said that it does get harder the older they are, I got Amber at 12 months and she was quite undersocialised so she's always got that nervous apprehension about her with other dogs, its easily managed though. I don't think your pup will be as bad as that though.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

I would want to know why the breeder has kept the puppies for that long (is she selling them all this late?). Sometimes 14 weeks means that a pup has been returned so check.

Ditto what Sled Dog Hotel has said, too.

The period up to 16 weeks used to be called the Critical period because it was so critical to a dogs future wellbeing. We now call it the socialisation period. The window closes. Yes, of course we continue to work with our dogs and we can socialise them ...but with a poor socialisation period you are always playing catch up.

Check what socialisation the pup has had ( and litter mates/parents or even other dogs in family do not count as socialisation) and whether it has had injections. Fear is one of the most common reasons for aggression. And lack of early socialisation is one of the most common reasons for fear based aggression.

J


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

If you're not completely happy with the puppy, its parents (who you must meet, the mum at least), the breeder, the socialisation that's already been done (if any), then walk away. Jack Russells are easy to find so you won't have any trouble locating another litter. 

Bear in mind that they are not the easiest dog - can be stubborn, wilful and persistent, along with their more pleasant playful characteristics. Although small, they aren't always the best choice for a novice dog owner.


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

Perhaps she just hasn't been able to sell them? Might have been advertised from 8 weeks but there are a lot of pups for sale this time of year. If they have been brought up in a family I'm sure they will be as socialised as if you had had them yourself at 8 weeks. If they are outside dogs might be a problem. Such a shame, where will these pups end up??


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Agree with Rose...if the puppies a re in a busy family home( ideally) and are running about, getting experience of spooky stuff like hoovers, washing machines and generally getting under everybody's feet, it's not so bad.

If they're confined all the time to one, quiet room, or an outhouse, garage, barn, or similar, then walk away.

The learning periods that puppies click in and out of teach them ( apart from how to behave with dogs, people and so on) to deal with low level stress. They learn that though some things are scary they can also be approached and investigated with care. This can often be the difference, in later life, between a naturally and sensibly wary dog, and a reactive, fearful one.

Follow your gut instinct regarding the environment these pups have been raised in, and if it's wrong don't buy one because it's cute or you feel sorry for it. You may have your pup for 14 years or so, so it's important to get it right.


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## LaceWing (Mar 18, 2014)

If they have been in a household they should be fine. Part of socialization, especially at that age is simply being around people of different ages and normal household things. If the puppies appear to be confident and have normal amounts of time indoors and out, then I think you will be fine.


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## Charlie178 (Apr 30, 2012)

Thank you all so much for your replies! 

When I contacted the 'breeder' sat eve she had 3 puppies to view. When we arrives Sunday lunch time she only had the one, which seemed a bit odd. I was asking lots of questions but they seemed quite vague with answers.
Also, the ad said all up to date with injections, when I asked to see paper work, turns out they hadn't had injections. 
The living conditions weren't too great either. 

The pup was really lovely and I felt a sorry for leaving it there and wanted to take it to a nice home. I resisted! 

Will keep looking!


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## Charlie178 (Apr 30, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Socialisation and training needs to be ongoing but it is the first 16 weeks especially when puppies go through many critical stages of development where they need to be introduced to things, sights sounds and situations from early on at the start. If the breeder has been doing all the things that she should appropriate for the various age/ stages then you shouldn't have any problems. The socialisation does shape the dog to be, but also so does, the parents especially the mother dog too. If the mother is an anxious/stressful fearful dog then that can be reflected in the pups temperament and behaviour also. A puppy that is naturally more unconfident or fearful together with lack of habituation and socialisation will likely be even worse and more likely be prone to behaviour problems. Where the puppies are actually raised can play a part too. Ones that are born and raised outside or in a kennel, with limited human contact and experiences, can be worse also to ones that are raised in the home and used to people coming and going and all the normal household noises and experiences. If the breeders has habituated and socialised them then you may find they will be OK, but if they haven't together with the other things that are needed then you could possibly have a problem. If the pups have not been vaccinated either, then even if you vaccinated as soon as you got him/her then they wont actually be able to go out aside from being carried or in the garden for probably at least 3 to 4 weeks. You would be able to do trips in the car and carry them to get used to outside sights sounds, situations and noises though. They will not be able to have contact with unknown vaccination status dogs, or with the ground outside where other dogs may have defeacated.
> 
> This may help further, its called the Puppy Plan it explains the importance of socialisation and also at the end of the breeders section for 0-8 weeks there is a down load for experiences they should have been receiving, then at the end of the new owners section there is another down load plan.
> 
> Puppy Plan - Welcome to the Puppy Socialisation Plan website


Thank you for recommending this puppyplan website! Really useful. Good to get info from a reliable source!


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Good choice. Many people call themselves breeders when really all it means is they've got puppies to sell. Look into real local breeders and they'll probably grill you about what YOUR living conditions etc are like to see whether you're worthy of one of their pups. But you might be able to put your name down for a pup from a future litter.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Oh bless , jack Russell's are the best, I have two but I can't offer advice on puppies because both mine were older rescues , 
Strong little carriers , vacuumed packed Rottweilers .. LOL 
Good luck and keep us posted with picks and stories of all the good and naughty behaviours


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

You made the right decision. If it doesn't feel right don't do it! Good luck with your search.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

It's always hard to say no but you have made the right decision imo. And vague answers normally means that they are not being honest.

Just to clarify things though ....being part of a busy family, in the home etc is the best way for a puppy to be brought up *prior to the optimum 8 weeks.* Absolutely. But a puppy left in this sterile environment will not be socialised to the very things that they may be fearful of (and appear therefore to be aggressive towards) later on ...human strangers, strange dogs, sudden sounds,traffic etc.

There is always ongoing debates amongst Behaviourists and vets whether in fact honouring the four to six week immunisation period between first and last injection is in fact detrimental to a puppys social wellbeing.

And bonding with humans/human owner begins at around 8 weeks which again is why this is considered an optimum time to send the pup out into the world. Of course sending the puppy home too early (at 6 weeks) is also poor practice.

It is sad when a puppy is involved, but breeders who breed for money without a care for the very puppys they are bringing into the world need to be pushed out of business. Rescue centres and shelters are full of their 'mistakes' 

J


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Charlie178 said:


> Thank you all so much for your replies!
> 
> When I contacted the 'breeder' sat eve she had 3 puppies to view. When we arrives Sunday lunch time she only had the one, which seemed a bit odd. I was asking lots of questions but they seemed quite vague with answers.
> Also, the ad said all up to date with injections, when I asked to see paper work, turns out they hadn't had injections.
> ...


Well Done for walking away.

You will find your right puppy and one that your 100% happy with.

In was once recommend a kennels from a colleague of my husbands.

We visited the kennels and they were horrendous - Damp - Wet - Dogs could see and interact with there neighbours  They had no where secure for dogs to be off lead and they took them out once a day on a Flexi 'if its not to wet'. I quickly realised why this colleague was using it was because it was 1/3 cheaper than any others we looked at 

Good Luck in your continued puppy search


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Well done for not helping to keep what sounds like a not very good breeder in business....right choice.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Well done for walking away. It's hard when you see a puppy in those conditions and you want to 'save' it (for want of a better word), but buying the pup only encourages them to breed again and you also have a dog with potential problems.

I'm sure you'll find a pup soon, you just need to make sure you're happy with the owner and the dogs. Remember that rescues also get puppies in so don't hesitate to contact some local rescues in the off chance, that's how I got my girl last year


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

I agree best to walk away, but poor little pup hasn't got a nice home,
So sad all the sad little pups living in crap, poor mums living in crap forever!! grr!


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