# Calling queen & neighbours???



## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

My neighbour stopped me today (we are good friends with them) and asked me if it was my cat meowing loudly.
I just shrugged it off and said i dont notice because i am used to it.
Now it is my Ginny that is calling (she is being mated on sat). But im worried what the other neighbours will think - can they do anything like report you or something for the noise?


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

If they do all you have to say is she's in heat hun xx

I've had to take Eva away from kittens for a few days as she was eating all their food if i didn't watch her closely and this in turn was making her belly bad x
so she was meowing very very loudly for 3 days and i was waiting for neighbours to complain about it but none have which i was rather happy about xx

i'm sure if you explain to the neighbour it is your cat but its only because she's wanting a male that they'll understand xx


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

ooooh you could be really cheeky and crafty about this. well i don't know if you know but legally cats are considered free roamers and have the right to roam where ever. but at the same time because of this if someone hits your cat it doesn't have to be reported like it does with a dog...

SO if your cat is 'free roaming' and calling and it just happens to be in your house TECHNICALLY they can't do a damn thing about it.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Oh no Zowie. That was my worry too, but when I asked my neighbours say they do here some meowing, but it does'nt bother them. When I said were they sure as I don't want them to be a nuisance, they said it was no bother.
I'm not sure whare the law stands regarding cats meowing. I know dogs constantly barking can be reported, but thats only when you've kept a diary ect, they will do something. I would'nt think a cat meowing, even in call is an offence.*


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

hmm interesting guys

i just want to make sure they cant call the police or something because of the unsociable noise or something


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Selk67U2 said:


> *Oh no Zowie. That was my worry too, but when I asked my neighbours say they do here some meowing, but it does'nt bother them. When I said were they sure as I don't want them to be a nuisance, they said it was no bother.
> I'm not sure whare the law stands regarding cats meowing. I know dogs constantly barking can be reported, but thats only when you've kept a diary ect, they will do something. I would'nt think a cat meowing, even in call is an offence.*


thanks selks - feel a bit better now


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*No Probs Zowie*


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Okay what Steph has said is valid here, basically in a bit more detail, cats are not grouped with livestock, so where they go (and any damage they do) is not the owners responsibility, it is accepted in law that cats are natural roamers, and damage and trouble caused by a cat is minimal, they are seen as 'property' meaning they cannot be damaged, killed (accidents accepted) or stolen.

At the same time, people are well within their rights to complain about anything and everything they want to providing proper procedures are followed. If a neighbour complains about you and your cats, your situation may be looked into. If you have more than a 'reasonable' amount of cats, then your property may no longer be deemed as a domestic residence, and you may be required to apply for planning permition for change of use.
All though a 'reasonable' number is not specified in law, an generally accepted figuer is 8.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

helz said:


> Okay what Steph has said is valid here, basically in a bit more detail, cats are not grouped with livestock, so where they go (and any damage they do) is not the owners responsibility, it is accepted in law that cats are natural roamers, and damage and trouble caused by a cat is minimal, they are seen as 'property' meaning they cannot be damaged, killed (accidents accepted) or stolen.
> 
> At the same time, people are well within their rights to complain about anything and everything they want to providing proper procedures are followed. If a neighbour complains about you and your cats, your situation may be looked into. If you have more than a 'reasonable' amount of cats, then your property may no longer be deemed as a domestic residence, and you may be required to apply for planning permition for change of use.
> All though a 'reasonable' number is not specified in law, an generally accepted figuer is 8.


Thanks helz & steph


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Oh dear 

If my neighbours ever moaned about my cats neither would have a leg to stand on! Both have annoying loud yappy little stupid dogs that never shut up


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

helz said:


> All though a 'reasonable' number is not specified in law, an generally accepted figuer is 8.


This is interesting, Helz - where does it come from?

Liz


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Z, at worst they can call the environmental people who may monitor the noise levels,so you just make sure they are in house on lock downUnless your girls are foghorn loud constantly i can't see their being a prob and of course between the times of 8 in the morning,maybe 9 i'm not sure til sometimes 6 and sometimes 10 in the eve..depends on the noise etc at least it does where we are,so wouldn't fret to much just be aware


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm glad 8 is considered a 'reasonable' number - I have 8 at the moment - and am not going to get any more, I am not going to get any more - must drum that into my subconscious firmly 

I wonder where they get that number from?


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

I dont know where the figure 8 comes from, it was something I read somewhere some time ago.

I have found a link to a site (this one actually says 12), this is really useful and basically covers our butts for most things a cat can do, I suggest everyone reads this http://www.catspro-northants.org.uk/leaflets/law.pdf


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Lumpy said:


> I'm glad 8 is considered a 'reasonable' number - I have 8 at the moment - and am not going to get any more, I am not going to get any more - must drum that into my subconscious firmly


My husband tells me repeatedly that I freely agreed to have only six. yeah, right, like I'd freely agree to that! 

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

helz said:


> I dont know where the figure 8 comes from, it was something I read somewhere some time ago.
> 
> I have found a link to a site (this one actually says 12), this is really useful and basically covers our butts for most things a cat can do, I suggest everyone reads this http://www.catspro-northants.org.uk/leaflets/law.pdf


Thanks for that - I guess language use has changed since 1911 but I did find it mildly amusing that it is an offence to "infuriate" a cat - does that mean I am committing a crime when I shut the cats out of the room so I can eat my dinner in peace? 

Liz


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

lizward said:


> Thanks for that - I guess language use has changed since 1911 but I did find it mildly amusing that it is an offence to "infuriate" a cat - does that mean I am committing a crime when I shut the cats out of the room so I can eat my dinner in peace?
> 
> Liz


Ha ha ha  - v good Liz  - was thinking along similar lines myself. I guess we all know what it really means.

My babe Kiki got really "infuriated" when I would not let her eat off my plate yesterday supper time  ... another thing that "infuriates" my monsters is when I don't let them into the clean laundry cupboard - they already have a pile of nice warm bedding to snuggle into yet they still want to mess with the entire household supply.  

Helz - thanks for posting this document. Very useful information.


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

The majority of breeders would have more than 8 cats, and I don't know of any who classify their breeding as a business, so I'd be interested to know where you heard this.

I have 15 cats 

Luckily I live in a small rural village, next door to a farm - I hardly think anyone would dare complain about my cats making a noise!!



helz said:


> Okay what Steph has said is valid here, basically in a bit more detail, cats are not grouped with livestock, so where they go (and any damage they do) is not the owners responsibility, it is accepted in law that cats are natural roamers, and damage and trouble caused by a cat is minimal, they are seen as 'property' meaning they cannot be damaged, killed (accidents accepted) or stolen.
> 
> At the same time, people are well within their rights to complain about anything and everything they want to providing proper procedures are followed. If a neighbour complains about you and your cats, your situation may be looked into. If you have more than a 'reasonable' amount of cats, then your property may no longer be deemed as a domestic residence, and you may be required to apply for planning permition for change of use.
> All though a 'reasonable' number is not specified in law, an generally accepted figuer is 8.


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> The majority of breeders would have more than 8 cats, and I don't know of any who classify their breeding as a business, so I'd be interested to know where you heard this.
> 
> I have 15 cats
> 
> Luckily I live in a small rural village, next door to a farm - I hardly think anyone would dare complain about my cats making a noise!!


I have posted a link to simular infomation already, although this actually says 12 cats, of course naming figures is fairly pointless, as I have already said no figure is actually written down in law.

Yes breeders may well have more than 8 (or even 12) cats, but as most of them are not there on a perminent basis, then they may well find the council accepts this. It would of course all be down to local councils to decide.

If your cats were to cause a problem to any of your neighbours, depending on the size, layout, location and possibly other factors, you may find that you have 'too many' cats for your premisis to be seen as residential, and it may be deemed that it is an animal sanctury of some kind, in which case you would be required to apply for change of use.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2008)

I think it is a very awkward situation to be in. One of my cats yells like anything if she sees me out in the garden but I don't go over to her!!! Dread to think what she will be like when she is calling!

I guess that there are plenty of other things out there that make far more noise, far more frequently (and much more annoyingly!!!) that a calling cat! Whoever has heard the foxes in mating season will know what I mean and the various hoodies that seem to wander past our house at 2 am make a lot of annoying noises!!!

I really wouldn't worry to much and would ask your neighbour to come to you if it ever did become a problem.

Louise
X


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I've had the council onto me before, following complaints by neighbours about cat poo in their gardens. At that time I had a couple of dozen cats, most of which were allowed out. The council came round and painted piles of cat poo (yes, honestly). Eventually after concluding that they were not going to win on the basis of cat poo tallies, they agreed to give us a caution which we accepted - after a couple of court appearances during which we made it clear that we were going to fight.

However there was a lady in Bradford who got "done" - and found guilty - and she had fewer cats at that time than I did. I seem to recall it was about 18 but can find no details anywhere.

Liz


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

lizward said:


> I've had the council onto me before, following complaints by neighbours about cat poo in their gardens. At that time I had a couple of dozen cats, most of which were allowed out. The council came round and painted piles of cat poo (yes, honestly). Eventually after concluding that they were not going to win on the basis of cat poo tallies, they agreed to give us a caution which we accepted - after a couple of court appearances during which we made it clear that we were going to fight.
> 
> However there was a lady in Bradford who got "done" - and found guilty - and she had fewer cats at that time than I did. I seem to recall it was about 18 but can find no details anywhere.
> 
> Liz


What was she actually 'done' for?
And on what grounds were you taken to court?


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## chestnut (May 27, 2008)

Hi everyone, we recently returned from our holiday to discover that we had had a visit from the RSPCA regarding our girl kida calling, (she was in the outside pen) the accusation that we had gone away and left them with no carer, which of course was rubbish. However, once they knew they were ok and cared for they closed the case. They were not concerned about the noise!. They put it down to a neighbour tuned into the calling trying to get us into trouble.

Not very nice to go through but at least I now have confidence to leave her out there if i need to which I didn't have before.

Some people have too much time on their hands.

Anji


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*OMG Anji, there are some trouble makers out there, thats for sure. Hope you had a nice holiday
We had the RSPCA called on us a few years ago. Someone said we had loads of kittens and they were neglected. I only had neuters then and was'nt even breeding!!*


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## chestnut (May 27, 2008)

Its good to know i'm not the only one. But yes holiday was a great break, thanks.

anji


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Brill.It's Nice to get away Funny seeing someone else on here from this area, lol.*


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Well thats made me think actually - what about stud owners who have an enclosure outside for them.
Do studs constantly call for a female???


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I think some can be very noisy.


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## Fireblade (Sep 7, 2008)

A friend of mine was reported because her queens were causing a noise when on call.The council came out and checked her place, and told her, the cat in question had to be calling for than 20 minutes (I think), and they had to prove it was that cat.So when you have 3 there, how do you prove it is that particular one that has been calling for the full 20 mins.You just say so and so was calling for 5,then no 2 was calling for 10 etc.
It was left at that by the council. xxxx


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> Do studs constantly call for a female???


*I asked my breeder friends that Zowie, lol, as i'm hoping to get my 1st stud boy i a few weeks. They said it depends on the cat, bit like the Queens, some are quite loud, some don't make much noise at all. Though they said they don't seem to have that high pitched yowling like a Queen can have, lol.*


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Well one day I would like a stud but would be worried about upsetting the neighbours - so stud owners, how much noise do they REALLY make????


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Well one day I would like a stud but would be worried about upsetting the neighbours - so stud owners, how much noise do they REALLY make????


answered in your other thread  lol xx


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

As above love


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Just an update guys - i have had a letter from the council as someone has complained about the noise of my queen that was calling - im furious. I now need to look on the net for rules and regs in relation to this noise to see if there is anything they can force me to do


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Not sure there is a lot they can do about it - your cat has to have reached a certain level of decibels for a given duration of time and has to be identified as the noise-maker. It can't just be one person's word against another. 

By all means look on web/check with CAB about noise complaints and if you can find out anything like, who was the complainant, then check to see if they are squeeky clean or merely jealous (which I suspect). 

Wishing you well with your fight - just off to see what can be found on www.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Try not to worry too much, there is a long process the council has to go through before they can do anything. Just a hint though - if they should make noises (sorry!) about getting round with noise monitoring equipment, either get your girl to stud or give her an Ovarid quick!

Of course it is precisely times like this, when you need a stud quick, that it is useful to have your own, but whether the advantages overall outweight the disadvantages is another question. I frequently think they don't, but then as soon as I am without a stud I want another! 

Liz


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

From what I have read, it seems the process can take up to a year before the council come round to your neighbour's with monitoring equipment. It has to be 10dB above the ambient noise level of the typical 24dB and must be an excessive noise sustained for at least half a second and be consistent over a period of between 1 to 5 mins. The measuring device must also comply with a British Standard specification so it can't just be your average microphone/recording kit bought from Dixons. Check out DEFRA's website.

As Liz suggested, its possible you could send your queen "on honeymoon" whilst the sound testing is being done.


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

Can I just ask, did the letter say anything about any action being taken? Or was it just a letter informing you someone had complained?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks guys - she has now gone to stud so they wont hear it. Problem is it wont happen again anyway cos the only reason was because the stud was busy so she was screaming her head off whilst i sourced another!!

Helz the letter just said that someone complained. They just made me aware that its possible they could monitor the noise but it didnt say about any action So i guess they were just letting me know.

But whoever it is has also made 2 calls to the RSPCA saying that our dog stays outside, has no human interaction and never gets walked.

When in fact we get up at 6am to walk him for an hour before work, he gets another walk after work for an hour. He also comes in the house when we are there or if its raining. We built the run for him down the side of the house and slabbed it, and he also has his kennel, food, water and toys.
The problem is that when the neighbours look out their bedroom window, they can see the dog run and i dont think they are happy about it. The dog doesnt bark cos he is a mute.

So the council and the rspca can only be 1 person doing it


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

This trouble-making neighbour is another waster of community workers' time and money, Saffron. From the way you write, the doggie sounds happy and well cared for - indeed that goes for all your fur-kids. You haven't got anything to worry about. 

In fact, I wonder whether there is anything that can be done about malicious falsehoods being reported ...


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

It is not an offence for dogs to be kept outside. I'm afraid this neighbour, whoever it is, is likely to keep making trouble though. I've been there .... 

Liz


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

Oh Saffron sorry you're having this trouble with your neighbour.
It's a shame that they didn't feel mature enough to come & voice any problems with you personally.

I wouldn't worry, as long as your dog & cats are being well looked after, as I'm sure they are, the RSPCA will see this as another time-waster!
I'm sure the council are only following up the complaint as standard. How long does it normally take to get them to actually do anything?!(the letter to you was the easy option!)

We all cross our fingers that your neighbours MOVE!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Sungold-Bengals said:


> Oh Saffron sorry you're having this trouble with your neighbour.
> It's a shame that they didn't feel mature enough to come & voice any problems with you personally.
> 
> I wouldn't worry, as long as your dog & cats are being well looked after, as I'm sure they are, the RSPCA will see this as another time-waster!
> ...


Yes well the RSPCA have seen the dog and know its fine - its just that because they got another call they had to follow it up to make sure nothing had changed.

Its so infuriating!!!


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## helz (May 24, 2008)

We had a neighbour (when I lived with my parents) that used to complain about everything and anything he could think of, (Im talking about getting on to 100 complaints to various authorities, be it council, health and safety, police, highways agency, anything they guy could think of. In the end the police started to log a file (in preparation for harassment), but they said really, so long as the correct channels are followed, there is very little the person being complained about (So Saffron in this case) can actually do.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Well I called the council and they said that they have to follow up every complaint.
I explained to her that the cats are in the conservatory and the roof flap was open because it was hot, but now its closed now its cooler.
I said its not as if I can tell a cat to be quiet and that if it was a dog outside barking then you can bring it inside to help with the noise, but if they continue to bark in the house then there is nothing you can do  similarly with my cat!!
I said im sure a cat meowing is not offensive or loud enough to be irritating anyway.
The lady at the council agreed with me because she has a cat.
She said they have sent log sheets to the neighbour to fill in and send back but mostly they dont come back. And even if they did investigate the noise further with sound monitor equipment she agreed with me that the noise would not hit the levels within the law and noise nuisance.
So there!!!! Stick it up your bottom neighbour!!!


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Yeeee haaa!!!! ...can you imagine how silly it would sound in court when the plaintiff told the court what he was complaining about ...  ...

imho its likely that the troublemaker bribed someone to make call No 2 to the council so that he could get his complaint off the ground. It'll probably take off and fly like a hippo ... what a treat of aerial grace you're in for now. Watch this space.


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Well I called the council and they said that they have to follow up every complaint.
> I explained to her that the cats are in the conservatory and the roof flap was open because it was hot, but now its closed now its cooler.
> I said its not as if I can tell a cat to be quiet and that if it was a dog outside barking then you can bring it inside to help with the noise, but if they continue to bark in the house then there is nothing you can do  similarly with my cat!!
> I said im sure a cat meowing is not offensive or loud enough to be irritating anyway.
> ...


Great news Saffron - shame about your neighbours though!


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

silly idiots arent they??
i could understand it if we had fallen out and this was a revenge attack - but we have done nothing - we have never even met them! LOL

I just wish they had knocked on my door to ask me about it rather than complain!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

It would have been better if they had just spoken to you. Maybe let the cats in the house as they will echo less in there. Mine have the conservatory to go in and if they meow in there it is louder so I guess the neighbours could hear it more.


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Some people have nothing better to do. 
I brought my queens inside when they started calling across to the males during the night.  I never had a complaint from the neighbours about it but I thought it best not to tempt fate and wait until I did so I brought them all inside. With the girls out of sight my boys have quietened down and only make a noise occasionally.

The girls can scream as much as they like in here (and they do) as Im not not joined onto anyone and it's only me that gets an ear full.


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> I just wish they had knocked on my door to ask me about it rather than complain!


There is no fun in that for them. People like this, just like being able to use an authority to beat you, knowing that that authority has to investigate. Its all designed to cause maximum annoyance to you, with no come back on them. Personally I think the council have a public duty to ensure that any complaint is reasonable BEFORE they investigate. It is absolutely ridiculous to waste public money investigating a cat miaowing.

I think the councils should instigate some kind of scheme where once malicious complaints are found to be just that, there is some come back on the complainant for wasting their time. That would stop them being used by these morons.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> It would have been better if they had just spoken to you. Maybe let the cats in the house as they will echo less in there. Mine have the conservatory to go in and if they meow in there it is louder so I guess the neighbours could hear it more.





Angeli said:


> Some people have nothing better to do.
> I brought my queens inside when they started calling across to the males during the night.  I never had a complaint from the neighbours about it but I thought it best not to tempt fate and wait until I did so I brought them all inside. With the girls out of sight my boys have quietened down and only make a noise occasionally.
> 
> The girls can scream as much as they like in here (and they do) as Im not not joined onto anyone and it's only me that gets an ear full.


Yes i would bring them in the house exept they are spraying - which is she has been screaming in the conservatory.
Plus they have already ruined 1 carpet with spraying!!


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

Ah spraying & carpet 

Now I know why all the breeders I visited had wooden/laminate or lino flooring in the cat areas!  I thought it was just the vogue until my girls started spraying


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> Yes i would bring them in the house exept they are spraying - which is she has been screaming in the conservatory.
> Plus they have already ruined 1 carpet with spraying!!


Oh yes sorry, I forgot that 
Will she stop spraying once pregnant?


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> Oh yes sorry, I forgot that
> Will she stop spraying once pregnant?


Yes hun she should do - but if she sprays a few weeks after she has been mated then thats a clear sign she is not pregnant!!


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Fingers crossed for you and the carpet that she is


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2008)

Just been reading through this thread (again!) and I have to admit that I am concerned about my girls when they reach maturity and also my stud boy as they are all outside on the neighbours boundary. They are NOT cat people!!

Sorry to hear that someone has complained but as has been mentioned before, councils are notoriously slack at dealing with these kind of things anyway and I really don't think that the noise will be loud enough or frequent enough to count as a nuisance.

Hope it all sorts itself out and try not to get too stressed out over it.

Louise
X


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