# Halti - Dog thrashing whilst attached



## Amnesia180 (Jul 17, 2012)

Hi All,

We were walking the dog on the Halti yesterday, his first time.

But he thrashes very heavily to start with, and really doesn't like it. I don't know what to do when he does this as the lead may get caught in his mouth and often it flips to the wrong side of him.So I have to calm him walk around him and then walk again normally.

By the end of the walk he was still walking infront of me but there was no pull at all, which was good.

However, he freaks out when he sees another dog. He cries/whines/tries to spin around. I don't know if this is because he is on the halti or not...

Any suggestions would be great.


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## mushymouth2 (Jul 4, 2012)

my dog hated the halti 
she used to do full roly-polys while walking
was quite embarrasing tbh


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Did you introduce it carefully and get him used to it in the house or did you just put it on him and away you went?

Here is a good hand out to read

http://www.apbc.org.uk/system/files...aring_your_dog_for_a_muzzle_or_headcollar.pdf

Here is a good demo

Teaching A Dog To Wear A Muzzle (Muzzle Training) - YouTube

You do not say how old your dog is, if you have had him from a puppy or what socialisation he has had?


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## Amnesia180 (Jul 17, 2012)

We introduced him to it in the garden and in the home, left it laying on the floor whilst he was in the front room with us. We done this over a period of 2 days. Byt the end he was happily slipping into the halti and seemed content with it on. 

He is 6 years old, has come from a home where he was one of five dogs.

I don't know what has happened, we took him to the beach 2 weeks ago and let him off the lead and he just darted over to dogs, wanted to play and then ran straight back to us.... We didn't really like this as he wouldn't come back to us when shouting "Here" so we put him back on the lead.

The last week or so he seems to be very scared (i think) of other dogs, whining etc, maybe it is just when he is on the lead.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

If he wants to go and interact with other dogs I expect what you are interpreting as fear is in fact what is called "barrier frustration" ie the dog wants to go play but you are preventing him.

there is nothing wrong in this.



Dogs, like children, have to learn to cope with being frustrated and not getting what they want when they want it, it is called impulse control.

Of course if you have no recall, it is potentially dangerous to let your dog off the lead.
If he has come from a multi dog household and is now an ONLY dog then his desire to interact with other dogs will be very strong.

But you need to teach your dog that a) just because other dogs are there does not mean you can necessarily play with them b) to only go over to other dogs after being given permission by you.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

*Why cant I get a reliable recall?*

Come is no harder to train than any other behaviour but in real life it has a huge number of criteria that have to be raised one at a time in order to guarantee success.
Often when puppies are brought home to their new owners this is the first time they have ever been separated from their dam and siblings and so they naturally attach themselves to their new family by following them about everywhere. Owners find this quite attractive and wrongly assume that this trait will continue into adolescence/adulthood, whatever the circumstances. A dangerous trap to fall into

At some point in time, usually from around 6  10 months, depending on the individual, Velcro dog will morph into Bog off dog (this is especially true of a breed that has been developed to exhibit a high degree of initiative). This is the time when owners suddenly realize that their dog will not recall when it sees another dog/person etc. Not only is this inconvenient but potentially dangerous as the dog could be at risk of injury from a car/train/another dog etc.

*How and when do I start with a puppy?*

My advice is to prepare for this inevitability from the day you take your puppy home. If you are lucky the breeder will have started this process whilst still in the nest by conditioning the puppies to a whistle blown immediately before putting the food bowl down during weaning.

Dogs learn by cause and effect ie sound of whistle = food. If you, the new owner, continue this from the moment your puppy arrives you will lay down strong foundations for the future.

By using the whistle in association with meals/food you need to establish the following criteria:
	Come from across the room. 
	Come from out of sight 
	Come no matter who calls
	Come even if you are busy doing something else
	Come even if you are asleep. 
	Come even if you are playing with something/someone else
	Come even if you are eating

Once this goal has been realized in the house, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the garden.

Once this goal has been realized in the garden, drop all the criteria to zero and establish the same measures, one at a time, in the park/field etc.

To train this, or any other behaviour:

1.	Make it easy for the dog to get it right
2.	Provide sufficient reward

Do not expect a dog to come away from distractions in the park until you have trained it to come to you in the park when no diversions are around. Be realistic and manage your expectations; your sphere of influence/control over your dog may be only 20m to begin with, therefore do not hazard a guess that the dog, at this level of training, will successfully recall from 50m or more away. Distance, like every other criterion, must be built up over time.

Some simple rules to follow when training the recall:

	Whistle/signal/call only once (why train the dog to deliberately ignore your first command?)
	Do not reinforce slow responses for the dog coming eventually after it has cocked its leg, sniffed the tree etc (you get what you train!)
	If you know that the dog will not come back to you in a certain situation, go and get him rather than risk teaching him that he can ignore you. (If you have followed the programme correctly you will never put your dog in a position to fail).
	Practise recalling the dog, putting him on the lead for a few seconds, reinforce with food/toy etc and immediately release the dog. Do this several times during a walk etc so that the dog does not associate a recall with going on the lead and ending the walk or being put on the lead with the cessation of fun.
	Eventually, when the behaviour is very strong, alternate rewards ie verbal praise, physical praise, food, toy and also vary the value of the rewards, sometimes a plain piece of biscuit, sometimes a piece of cooked liver etc so that you become a walking slot machine (and we all know how addictive gambling can be)!

In my experience recall training should be consistent and relentless for the first two years of a dogs life before it can be considered truly dependable. You should look on it as a series of incremental steps, rather than a single simple behaviour, and something that will require lifelong maintenance.

*What about an older or rescue dog?*

Follow the same programme as outlined above however for recalcitrant dogs that have received little or no training, I would recommend dispensing with the food bowl and feeding a dog only during recalls to establish a strong behaviour quickly.

Your training should be over several sessions a day, which means you can avoid the risk of bloat. It is essential that the dog learns that there will be consequences for failure as well as success.

Divide the days food ration up into small bags (between10  30), if the dog recalls first time, it gets food, if it does not, you can make a big show of saying too bad and disposing of that portion of food (either throw it away or put aside for the next day).

Again, raise the criteria slowly as outlined in puppy training.

Hunger is very motivating!

For those of you who believe it unfair/unhealthy to deprive a dog of its full daily ration, not having a reliable recall is potentially life threatening for the dog 

*How do I stop my dog chasing joggers/cyclists/skateboarders/rabbits/deer?*

Chasing something that is moving is a management issue. Do not put your dog in a position where it can make a mistake. Again you need to start training from a pup but if you have already allowed your dog to learn and practise this behaviour you may need to rely on a trailing line until your dog is desensitised to these distractions and knows that listening to you results in a great reinforcement. Chasing is a behaviour much better never learned as it is naturally reinforcing to the dog, which makes it hard for you to offer a better reinforcement. If you want to have a bombproof recall while your dog is running away from you then use the following approach:

Your goal is to train so that your dog is totally used to running away from you at top speed, and then turning on a sixpence to run toward you when you give the recall cue.

You need to set up the training situation so that you have total control over the triggers. For this you will need to gain the co-operation of a helper. If you have a toy crazy dog you can practice this exercise by throwing a toy away from the dog towards someone standing 30 or 40 feet away. At the instant the toy is thrown, recall your dog! If the dog turns toward you, back up several steps quickly, creating even more distance between the you and the toy and then throw another toy in the opposite direction (same value as one thrown)..

If the dog ignores you and continues toward the thrown object, your helper simply picks the ball up and ignores dog. When dog eventually returns (which it will because its getting no reinforcement from anyone or anything), praise only. Pretty soon the dog will start to respond to a recall off a thrown toy. You will need to mix in occasions the toy is thrown and the dog is allowed to get it ie you do NOT recall if you want to make sure it does not lose enthusiasm for retrieving.

For the food obsessed dog, you can get your helper to wave a food bowl with something the dog loves in it and then recall the dog as soon as you let it go to run towards the food; again if the dog ignores you and continues to the food, your helper simply ensures the dog cannot access the food and start again. (It is extremely important that the helper does not use your dogs name to call it for obvious reasons).

Gradually increase the difficulty of the recall by letting the dog get closer and closer to the toy/food. Praise the moment the dog turns away from the toy/food in the 
early stages of training. Don't wait until the dog returns to you; the dog must have instant feedback.

Once the dog is fluent at switching directions in the middle of a chase, try setting up the situation so that it is more like real life. Have someone ride a bike/run/skate past. (It is unrealistic to factor in deer/rabbits however if your training is thorough the dog will eventually be conditioned to return to you whatever the temptation in most contexts).

Until your training gets to this level, don't let the dog off-lead in a situation in which you don't have control over the chase triggers. Don't set the dog up to fail, and don't allow it to rehearse the problem behaviour. Remember, every time a dog is able to practise an undesirable behaviour it will get better at it!

Most people do not play with toys correctly and therefore the dog is not interested in them or, if it gets them, fails to bring it back to the owner.

Play the two ball game, once you have a dog ball crazy. Have two balls the same, throw one to the left, when the dog gets it, call him like crazy waving the next ball; as he comes back throw the other ball to the right and keep going left right so that YOU are the centre of the game and the dog gets conditioned to return to you for the toy. Once this behaviour is established you can then introduce the cues for out and then make control part of the game ie the game is contingent on the dog sitting and then progress to a sequence of behaviours.

HTH


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## Amnesia180 (Jul 17, 2012)

Very helpful post, thank you!

I will read this several times and digest the information. It all makes great sense.

I think once we get him in an area to socialise with other dogs he may also calm down when on the lead around dogs. It will give me practise at giving him permission to play with other dogs.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Have you tried to put it on him with a treat in your palm? A really high reward one in your hand as you slide it over his face? Also try a double ended clip lead with one end on the halti and the other on the collar, it sort of stops the worst of the somersaults.

He might think that he's been punished and lost some confidence maybe. The halti does seem to feel strange as does any lead I imagine to any dog who has been off lead socialised. I've got some bits on my blog (see signature) about what we're doing with our lead reactive dog and calm stooge dogs. It is work in progress but I hope it helps


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## Amnesia180 (Jul 17, 2012)

By thrashing, what I meant was he thrashes as he walks.

Today was rather embarrasing and I feel very sorry for him. A dog was on the opposite side of the field and he was whining/crying/jumping/pulling/yelping (like he was in pain) non-stop. Eventually the dog came over and I let them sniff, and the other dog just growled and barked and lunged at my dog... to which he tried to bolt in the opposite direction, getting caught in his halti. Probably not a great experience for him at all.

As said above, he is not at the stage that he can be allowed of yet. Whilst I'm confident he would sniff a dog and run away (As I have seen him do before), I can't take the chance he wouldn't then bolt into the road or the other dog would be as friendly.

The halti seems to be making a great improvement whilst he is walking with me (on his own, or in a field with no distractions).

I'm not sure on the fit of his halti either, as he pulled tightly he got tangled and nearly every time the lead tightens like this around his eyes: (the images are not of him still, he is on the lead slightly pulling). It is a size two as suggested by the store...


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## totallypets (Dec 30, 2011)

It's too big for him.

Haltis are very difficult to get a good fit on. I have given up with them and use Gentle Leaders instead. They are adjustable around the muzzle and behind the head. I have found that several dogs who objected to the Halti were much better on a GL instead. 

I would go back to the shop where you bought it and see if they will exchange it for a smaller size or a different type of headcollar like a Gentle Leader. smokeybear I think will be able to give you an extensive list of other types of headcollars but be aware that they don't all fit every dog.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Amnesia180 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> We were walking the dog on the Halti yesterday, his first time.
> 
> ...


To be honest I dont like the Haltis, the reason being that you cant adjust the nose band to get a perfect fit only the neck strap. Even though they come in different sizes you have to be pretty lucky for the nose band you cant adjust to fit perfectly meaning they twist and ride up. Making it uncomfortable for the dog.

Ive found the gentle leaders to be much better as you can adjust both the nose band and the collar strap. Ive also used the Canny collar but the lead attaches behind the head, so for a puller doesnt always seem to be effective.

Another one that people have found good on here too seems to be the dogmatic
although I cant say personally.

You also need to get the dog habituated to the head collar and used to wearing it before going out to walk which may also be your problem if you didnt do this.


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## jayne5364 (Oct 21, 2009)

I've tried the gentle leader, canny collar and the halti. I've found with all 3 that they ride up towards the eyes. It's hard to get a decent fit. I have dogmatics now for both the girls and can't recommend them highly enough. The fit is great, they look good too. Never ride up which makes them much more comfy. Even in the early days when Anya was a bit skittish she never managed to back out of it.


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## isleofcebu (Mar 25, 2012)

Rather than a head collar type have a look at the Xtradog walking harness. Much more comfortable for the dog, very difficult for them to pull. I have used them on the largest and strongest of dogs to great effect. Should be used with a double ended lead and clipped onto the front of the chest and the back for complete control. I don't like halti's at all, if I have to use a head collar I use George Grayson's Kumfi head harness, it fits snugly and doesn't ride up.

Chris


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

totallypets said:


> It's too big for him.
> 
> Haltis are very difficult to get a good fit on. I have given up with them and use Gentle Leaders instead. They are adjustable around the muzzle and behind the head. I have found that several dogs who objected to the Halti were much better on a GL instead.
> 
> I would go back to the shop where you bought it and see if they will exchange it for a smaller size or a different type of headcollar like a Gentle Leader. smokeybear I think will be able to give you an extensive list of other types of headcollars but be aware that they don't all fit every dog.


My favourite is the Black Dog Halter, but not all head halters suit all dogs for various reasons. What suits one does not suit another due to how hairy the dog is, how many times you have to take it on and off, how dextrous the owner, shape of dog's head etc

Here are some that are on the market.

Black Dog Head Halter

Agility Warehouse | Dog Agility Equipment and Supplies | Black Dog Head Halter

The Canny Collar

The Canny Collar - The Best Collar to Stop Dogs Pulling on the Lead - Home

The Dogalter

Welcome to Kumfi

The DogMatic

Dogmatic Headcollar

Gentle Controller

GenCon All-in-1

The Gentle Leader

The Gentle Leader at Canine Concepts

The Halti

http://www.companyofanimals.co.uk/halti.php

The K9 Bridle

K9 Bridle | The world's first dog collar

The Newtrix Easy Way

Angela Stockdale, Dog Aggression Specialist - About Angela: an aggressive dog is an unhappy dog

The SWAG headcollar

http://www.southwestagilitygoods.co.uk/headcollar.html

Rope Lead Head Halter

Rope Slip Lead Head Collar Combination

Martingale head halter

Phoenix Martingale Headcollars

http://www.apbc.org.uk/system/files...aring_your_dog_for_a_muzzle_or_headcollar.pdf

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/walkingyourdogwithheadhalter.pdf

Alternatively have you considered a harness? One that is correctly designed to provide total freedom for the shoulder and upper arm.

NOT an anti pull one.

The following are good designs which meet the above criteria and also are not too thick, wide or heavy to avoid creating too much heat in the body etc.

Tilley Farm TTouch Harnesses and Leads
Haqihana Italian hand made dog harness
https://www.kumfi.com/index.php/onlien-store/complete-control-harness-detail


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Amnesia180 said:


> By thrashing, what I meant was he thrashes as he walks.
> 
> Today was rather embarrasing and I feel very sorry for him. A dog was on the opposite side of the field and he was whining/crying/jumping/pulling/yelping (like he was in pain) non-stop. Eventually the dog came over and I let them sniff, and the other dog just growled and barked and lunged at my dog... to which he tried to bolt in the opposite direction, getting caught in his halti. Probably not a great experience for him at all.


I have found that on lead meetings where one or other of the dogs is very excited rarely go well at all. I have started to not allow on lead greetings at all unless we know the dogs very, very well. My dog has been repeatedly attacked (nothing major, but some blood drawn) by an offlead black lab that comes over whilst he is on the lead. Consequently he is wary of dogs that approach whilst he is onlead and particularly black labs. If he does meet one on his lead his body language is exceptionally tense and about 50% of the time it makes the other dog react badly to him.

The problem that I used to have (and now have less!) is caring what other people thought. Now I just avoid folk who are making a beeline for us for their dog to 'say hello' on the lead and just say that my dog 'isn't good' at onlead meetings. I have found that removing the expectation of a greeting has relaxed my dog beyond measure when approaching other dogs.

He can also be fairly excitable and frustrated when we see others offlead and he wants to greet. I tend to walk him around with his focus on me where possible and get him used to the idea that he can't meet them all. If they are dogs that we know it is ideal as we know a few lovely owners with calm dogs who know what we are up to so if I see them approaching I put Kilo on lead, walk him around until he's calm and focussed on me and then let him offlead to interact. Training classes are also helpful for controlled socialisation.

I have also found a supplement called "Stress Less" by Nupafeed to be excellent for our needs.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Amnesia180 said:


> By thrashing, what I meant was he thrashes as he walks.
> 
> Today was rather embarrasing and I feel very sorry for him. A dog was on the opposite side of the field and he was whining/crying/jumping/pulling/yelping (like he was in pain) non-stop. Eventually the dog came over and I let them sniff, and the other dog just growled and barked and lunged at my dog... to which he tried to bolt in the opposite direction, getting caught in his halti. Probably not a great experience for him at all.
> 
> ...


Incase it helps heres a picture of my girl in hers.

Its slightly to small for her I think (She was a puppy when she last wore it!) but although close is to eyes doesnt pull into them. Yours definately looks way to loose.










It tooks use 2 weeks of desensitising before I would walk our girl on public streets in a Halti.

Also dont let your dog walk in front of you when using a Halti - no point using one if your not going to keep the dog next to you  The Halti is a training aid and is to be used to aid teaching loose leash walking ideally to heal so you can then go back to using a collar once the behaviour is correctly learnt (took us 4-6 weeks).

Start as you mean to go on and treat every walk as a training session.


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## lily74 (Jan 13, 2012)

Hi,

I have used several types of headcollers for my dog, I found the gentle leader to be the most effective one for me.

It took about a week or so for him to get used to wearing it round the house etc and then introducing him with the lead on and then he walked fine but still tried to rub it off when he had a chance!

When Dexter sees another dog he will try to rear up and jump around even with the headcoller on.

You could try an anti pull harness but this didn't work for us, trial and error I think!


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I've nothing to add to the topic that hasn't been covered, just wanted to say what a beautiful dog you have. I love shaded sables, have one too.


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