# Size of goldfish



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I have two goldfish that were brought about two years ago. One has doubled in size but the other doesn't seem to have grown at all. They were exactly the same size as one another when we brought them. Not that it's a problem of course, just curious as to why this might be 

Poor quality pictures from the webcam, but you get the idea;


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Could be stunting if the tank's too small; could be genetic; could be that thr bigger one's outcompeting the other for food. What size is that tank?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I genuinely can't remember... 120L perhaps?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Can anyone advise on what size tank is suitable for two goldfish? Lots of conflicting advice online.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Depends on the variety of goldfish. Assuming the fancy/double tailed varieties (such as orandas, ryukins etc) you are looking at at least 200L for a tank (minimum 150L for the first fish and add 50L for each fish thereafter) but the bigger the better as some of the fancies grow very large. For the single tailed varieties such as comets, shubunkins, lemon goldfish etc, you are looking at nothing less than a pond as they need a lot of space, and should not be kept in an aquarium.

Goldfish can live for over 20 years and grow to over 15 inches. Keeping them in small tanks causes all sorts of developmental issues, such as stunting, which can cause them an early death.

They are also very 'messy' fish, so whatever size tank you get you need a filter rated for double - so a 200L tank you need a filter rated for a 400L tank. 

Obviously goldfish are not the cheap and easy fish that more people assume, and to give them the minimum that they need is not as simple as a bowl or a 'starter tank' as most pet stores sell. 

I'm just editing this because I didn't realise there were more posts before the last question about tank size. It seems to happen a lot that one goldfish will grow big and its companion will not. I suspect that one fish is hogging the food, so try watching them when you put food in to see who is eating the lions share. There could be some other phenomenon going one whereby one fish grows and the other doesn't (perhaps related to tank size and stunting) or it could just be genetic variation.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

To get the size of the tank in litres, measure the length, depth and height of the tank and plug the numbers into here:

Calculating Aquarium Volume - The First Tank Guide - How Can I Figure Out How Much Water My Fish Tank Holds?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks for the info and the link to the calculator - it seems our tank is around 70L which is a lot smaller than I thought it was to be honest. I will order a new one for them tonight - so around 200L would be ok for them? I assume they're fancy goldfish as they have fanned tails.

Since I first posted this thread I've been keeping an eye at feeding times and it does appear the larger one is snaffling up most of the food. I wondered whether a pair of long tweezers to direct food to the smaller fish might be a feasible, or is that a totally daft idea?! 

And on the subject of food - I have pellets, flakes and bloodworms for them and feed a rotation of the three - is this sufficient?


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Don't overdo the bloodworms, high protein foods should be restricted to once a week (high protein means more waste ammonia produced by the fish). The pellets are generally suited for larger pond fish, so not sure about those. Instead, alternate the flake food with veggies - peas are very good for goldfish (defrost one pea each per fish per feeding).

You might have to devise some way of making sure the smaller fish gets his share - perhaps employing some kind of tank divider to keep the bigger fish away from the smaller fish's food.

70L is ok for a while when the fish are small, but they will quickly outgrow it and may become stunted (where the fish's body cannot grow but the internal organs may try to keep on growing, causing malformations particularly in the guts).

Yes it looks like those are double tailed fancies, you can put them in a pond but only in the summer - they are not hardy enough to spend the winter outside. So it looks like a 200L tank it is  If the cost is prohibitive try looking on ebay - you can get some really good deals on there for secondhand but perfectly good tanks.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks, I'll cut the bloodworms back to once a week. The pellets we have are Tetra Goldfish Sticks, they come in a little pot and are about 2mm long - sorry, pellets was obviously the wrong word. Must remember about peas - would never have thought of giving them!

I think I'd rather get them into a larger tank sooner rather than later now I know it's too small so I'll take a drive over to the aquatic shop tomorrow and see what they have in stock. Hopefully will be able to get something delivered by the end of the week and they can be in it within a few weeks. 

Our current filter is suitable for tanks up to 240L but we have it turned down to the lowest power setting. Would it still be ok in the larger tank if we turned the power setting up, or do I need a new filter? If so, rated for what size tank?

Sorry for all the questions  - and thank you for your help!


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

The filter will be ok for now (wow thats incredible filtration for the smaller tank!) but when the goldfish get bigger you will either have to supplement the filtration by running another filter alongside it (a good internal filter will do) or maybe even upgrade. You can help increase biological filtration be adding more ceramics or equivalent biological media. I'm assuming this is an external filter not an internal, so you just have to top up the trays inside with extra media (remove any carbon or zeolite media).

Do you intend to perform a full fishless cycle on the new tank when you get it? This will ensure there is enough bacteria in your new set up to prevent any hiccups, especially if you buy new substrate and decor. Or you could move all the existing substrate and decor straight over (no washing!) and that will be enough to get your fish in.

I don't have any experience with the goldfish sticks - my only concern is that they might cause swim bladder issues if over fed with them. Someone else might be better able to advise on the food, but the peas are a definite plus.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Phoenix24 said:


> The filter will be ok for now (wow thats incredible filtration for the smaller tank!) but when the goldfish get bigger you will either have to supplement the filtration by running another filter alongside it (a good internal filter will do) or maybe even upgrade. You can help increase biological filtration be adding more ceramics or equivalent biological media. I'm assuming this is an external filter not an internal, so you just have to top up the trays inside with extra media (remove any carbon or zeolite media).
> 
> Do you intend to perform a full fishless cycle on the new tank when you get it? This will ensure there is enough bacteria in your new set up to prevent any hiccups, especially if you buy new substrate and decor. Or you could move all the existing substrate and decor straight over (no washing!) and that will be enough to get your fish in.
> 
> I don't have any experience with the goldfish sticks - my only concern is that they might cause swim bladder issues if over fed with them. Someone else might be better able to advise on the food, but the peas are a definite plus.


The current filter is an internal one (Aqua One is the brand I think) - I knew that goldfish should have a filter that is rated suitable for a tank larger than they're in so we thought a 240L filter in a 70L tank would keep it nice and clean but it's a bit too strong - the fish get sucked to the side of it though if it's turned up so we keep it to the lowest power setting 

Sorry, I'm being total dim here.... media? I've never done anything to the filter apart from removing the sponges occasionally and swishing them around in a bowl full of water from the tank, on the advice of the shop we brought the fish from. Is there more I should be doing?

We got a new tank today - we went for a 250L in the end as it was part of a deal package with a stand/cabinet. It's being delivered Saturday.

We go on holiday on Monday so what I had intended to do was set the new tank up Sunday, leave it running whilst we're away for the week, and look to transferring the fish across the week after we're back. Does this sound ok?

Noted about the goldfish sticks - I'll keep them to mainly flakes with the only the occasional peas, bloodworms and sticks.

Thanks again for your help.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Great news on getting the new tank! Lucky fishies! 

The bad news is it won't be enough to set up the tank and leave it running for a few days. The new tank (and presumably new gravel, new decor, new filter etc) will not have the essential bacteria grown on them that deal with the waste ammonia and its by product nitrites, which means if you put the fish in then you have a potential risk of 'new tank syndrome' whereby the build up of wastes in the tank can poison the fish, causing long term damage, and even kill them.

Do you know what we mean when we say do a fishless cycle? This is where you use bottled ammonia to grow the bacteria in the tank before letting a fish anywhere near it. You need seeding material (live bacteria) to kick start the whole thing, and of course the new water must be treated with a suitable tap water conditioner (which I am assuming you have) otherwise the bacteria will be killed.

By media I mean the stuff in your filter that isn't the sponge/pads. Internal filters don't always have it, but some of the better, higher rated ones (like yours) do - there will be a section that instead of sponges there is either ceramic balls/noodles/tube-like things or something else that looks like rocks sometimes. The external filters all have trays with this extra media in. Biological media (like the ceramics) is porous and has a huge surface area for bacteria to grow on. The bacteria break down the wastes as I said before (which is why its called biological media). The filter pads/sponges are also 'media' of sorts, they are mechanical filters as they collect debris, and biological filters as bacteria grow on them. Finally there are chemical filtration media, such as zeolite (usually looks like pebbles) or carbon (black granules, though sometimes you have carbon sponges) and these remove ammonia (zeolite) and other chemicals such as medicines in the water (carbon).

What I suggest is that when you get the tank, set it up (to check its leak proof, the filter works etc, and get all the substrate and decor in), but then wait until after your holiday before properly setting it up - ie doing a fishless cycle. We can guide you through this process if you are not familiar with it, but trust me this is the best way. Rushing to get your fish in the new tank will only do them more harm than good, and could end in disaster. Slow and steady preparations and you will have happy and healthy fish - in the mean time the goldfish will be fine in their current tank.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

No I don't really know what a fishless cycle is - infact, reading what you've wrote is like reading a foreign language all together! All I've ever done to the water in the current tank is treat it with 'tap safe' and change about 25% of the water every week (adding 'tap safe' to the new water I add), and use those little test papers to make sure the water was ok. When I've opened the filters to swish the sponges about to rinse, I can't say I've ever noticed anything ceramic but I'll have another look.

I intend to use the same filter for a little while but yes, I have new gravel and plants for the new tank.

I hate knowing that I seem to have done everything wrong for the two little guys so far! - so an idiots guide to going about things the right way for the new tank would be much appreciated


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

You have by no means done everything wrong - you have actually done pretty well for a new fish owner. Many who post about goldfish on here have had some terrible advice (or none at all) and just shoved their poor fish into a tiny tank (or worse, a bowl), often with no filter, often not using tap water conditioner, and come for help when their fish are very poorly indeed. You at least have a decent sized starter tank (its not big enough long term, but its not exactly tiny either), with a filter, are using tap safe, doing water changes, and rinsing your filter pads in old water. These are all good things, they just need a bit of improving so you don't end up with stunted fish in a few months or so.

You might get away with running your new tank with the established filter, but you will need to keep an eye on the water quality and I still definitely would not advise undertaking the transition until you are home to keep an eye on it. I would suggest you get a more accurate water testing kit - the API master test kit seems to be the better one, and we generally recommend it - and a better water conditioner than tape safe - we suggest Seachem Prime, which not only dechlorinates the water, but can be used to mop up excess ammonia during a spike, and reduce the toxicity of nitrites too.

An idiots guide... well lets wait and see what route you want to take first, and then we can walk you though it


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Just been thinking that it'd probably be best to get a new filter to use from the get-go with the new tank. That way I can have the new filter running in the new tank whilst it's cycling (get me and the lingo! ) and the current one can stay with the fish in their current tank - rather than faffing about with moving it.

I'll call the aquatic shop in the morning and ask for those two bits you've mentioned to be added to my order and delivered with the tank. Can you advise on which size/brand of filter would be suitable so I can add that too?

Thanks again, I really do appreciate your help.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Does the new tank not come with a filter? They usually come as a complete kit - but maybe not this time.

As for a filter - I would recommend an external filter, and I know a lot of people on the fish forums rate the All Pond Solutions brand of filters (not had one myself), but really just having a looks at a few filters and some reviews is your best option. I have the Aquael Unimax 250 and had no problems with it, I love it, but I tried the 150 and had a lot of issues with air in the pipes (a common problem with most externals of all brands). Eheim are supposed to be very good, not sure about fluvals -mixed reviews - but them again every brand has its good and bad points.

The reason I sugggest an external filter is because they have much more filtration capacity than an internal, and are less 'powerful' than a similarly rated internal so you dont get the problems with the fish being blown about all over the place. They take up less room inside the tank (more swimming space), and if you have a cabinet you can hide all the pipework and the filter within it. Externals come with the other media I told you about too, and all you have to do is keep back the carbon and zeolite (you don't really need them for the general running of the filter, the zeolite is used to mop up ammonia and the carbon is used to remove medicines and toxins - not something you will always have in the tank!) and put in extra ceramics or rock media for super duper biological filtration.

Don't forget you will need to also buy some ammonia for the cycle - you can get it off amazon here: Amazon.co.uk: kleenoff household ammonia

I will post another post on what you need to do with the cycle.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

+1 on the external filter - with that size of tank, an internal isn't really powerful enough, especially with goldfish. Here's one that should give you more than enough filtration and won't break the bank: All Pond Solutions - 1400EF Aquarium External Filter - All Pond Solutions

For more on fishless cycling, this article should be a good starting point: Tropical Fish Forums UK - Setting up your new Aquarium If you put a little bit of the media from your current filter into it, it will kick-start the cycle and speed things up. And as Phoenix said, we're happy to help talk you through it 

I'd venture to say that, with a 250l tank and a high-rated external filter, you could even get away with adding one more goldfish if you wanted to (once the cycle's complete of course).

And if you have space to keep the 70l, it would make a great tropical tank...


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

These are the basic steps for a fishless cycle, but you can read up online about the process in more details.

Set up tank and filter, fill with water, turn on filter (to check it works). Turn off filter and open it up.

Using the old filter (turn it off for a moment obviously) squeeze dirty water from the old filter pads/sponges over the new filter's pads/sponges/media. This is seeding the new media with the bacteria you are going to grow. If you don't do this, you will have a very difficult time starting the cycle. Bottled bacteria (such as Seachem Stability) can be used too, but better if you use the old filter and just supplement with the bottled stuff if later the cycle stalls (will explain later).

Reassemble new filter and turn it back on.

Using API master test kit (or equivalent) test for ammonia and nitrite (and pH can be useful too). This is the tap water baseline which you need to know. Sometimes tap water can contain trace amounts of ammonia and nitrAtes especially. Goldfish prefer a pH above 7, but this isn't essential, and knowing the pH can help if there is a problem with the cycle (I can't explain that bit because I haven't read enough about it).

Work out how much ammonia to add. You need to start with 4ppm. You can use this handy calculator: Tropical Fish Forums UK - Ammonia Calculator

Test water again for ammonia level (so you can see what 4ppm looks like on the colour chart).

Wait 24 hours and re-test water. You may not see any change on the first day, or the first few days, but keep testing every 24 hours until you see a change in colour indicating a drop in ammonia. As soon as you see a drop in ammonia, test for nitrites (not nitrates).

Once drop in ammonia is seen, add 2ppm ammonia to tank.

Keep retesting water every 24 hours for both ammonia and nitrites. Add more ammonia if levels drop to zero (another 2ppm each time). You will see the nitrite levels soar off the chart. These take longer to drop than the ammonia (which you may see dropping to zero each 24 hours after adding the 2ppm).

If nitrite levels do not drop after 2 weeks you have what we call a stall. Sometimes the pH of the water or else the build up of ammonia or other wastes in the water stop the bacteria from growing, so if you see this happening you have to perform a 50% water change (not forgetting to treat the new water with Prime before adding it!!), and re-test. Then add the ammonia again (you have to keep adding ammonia if the bacteria are clearing it in 24 hours or else the bacteria will starve and die off) and retest again after 24 hours. Sometimes this works a miracle - it did with me, and the nitrites suddenly disappear.

You need three consecutive days of 'double zeros' (ammonia and nitrite) with daily dosing of 2ppm ammonia to class the cycle as complete and the bacteria grown.

If you test for nitrAtes at all during the cycle you will see these rise and rise even if nitrIte does not seem to be dropping.

Once the cycle is complete, perform a 50% water change (to refresh the water - do not touch the filter) and then you can add your fish straight away.

It is advisable to keep testing the water for a full week after adding the fish. Do not clean the filter for a few weeks after the cycle (an external filter does not need cleaning weekly, only once every 2-3 weeks, and even then you only squeeze the sponges the remove debris).

Adding a little substrate from the old tank will help to seed the new substrate for the cycle too (bacteria grow on everything not just the filter).

Hope that's all clear anyway?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks for that - sorry I didn't get a notification on the thread, so only just noticed the replies.

No the tank didn't come with a filter as it was a clearance item - tank and cabinet was ex-display (hasn't had fish in it though!). I didn't see your reply by the time I rang the aquatic shop to add a filter to our order so asked for their recommendation and they advised Fluval filters but said I would need two for my tank size since it's going to house goldfish. They sent two Fluval U4 filters and told me to put one either end of the tank. They're ones that go in the water. I've just read the bit you've put about external filters being better, do you think what I have sound ok or look to exchange them? They're not out the box yet so I should think they'd take them back. Have to say I prefer the price of the one you've linked to - I was charged £113 for the two Fluval filters!

Got the API Master test kit but they had no Seachem Prime so sent Fluval Aquaplus, they said it's just as good? They said I'd need a stress liquid for when I moved the fish over, so have a bottle of API Stress Coat too and they said to put it in the old tank a couple of days before I move the fish and then in the new tank too.

We're on holiday from tomorrow so I'll order the ammonia from Amazon when we're back and then get the ball rolling and get things started - I'm managing to make sense of your fishless cycle guide, so you've done well 

One last question (for now) - the new tank is ex-display and a bit dusty. We'd like to give it a rinse out before we set it up. Would it be ok to use water with Tap Safe in to do this, or is that a no-go? 

Thanks again for the advice - I'm sure Gary and Miranda are very appreciative too!


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

It sounds to me like the pet store favours fluval products, but really I don't rate them as the best at all (maybe other do though).

The fluval aquaplus is NOT as good as the Prime. Seachem Prime's formulation does what other water conditioners can not (at least as far as I am aware, but I did look up the info for the fluval aquplus and it didn't list the properties that Prime does), which is to detoxify ammonia, and detoxify nitrites (as well as remove chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals). This is a really useful feature because any upset to the water chemistry can be mediated with the Prime, but not with any other water conditioner. In fact, other water conditioners typically create more ammonia when they break down the chloramine - something that Prime doesn't do.

I would definitely exchange the two internals for the external. I say again, the petstore obviously has some kind of affinity with the fluval range, perhaps even some kind of contract to sell them (if it was Pets at home thats their range they sell, and I wouldn't trust pets at home advice as they are pretty dire). Having two internals will cause more flow than you want (goldfish don't really need flow) and still will not have the ease of maintenance and filtration capacity of an external.

The API stress coat is pointless, i'm afraid. They sell that to people who they (wrongly) advise to 'wait three days before adding fish' - which does nothing to grow bacteria in the filter, and therefore the fish end up with ammonia poisoning which irritates the skin - hence the stress coat. But if you do a fishless cycle you simply won't need it. They just sell it as a gimmick, its really bad practice. Its ok to keep in the cupboard though I suppose if you ever have the fish get any other skin problem (injuries) as the aloe vera in the stress coat is supposed to help. BUT, there is aloe vera in the tap water conditioner - so yep, I think you have been conned big time i'm afraid.

So... my advice - send back the fluval filters and get the APS external that was suggested to you, maybe send back the stress coat and fluval aquaplus too, and order Prime from online here:

Seachem Prime Water Conditioner Fresh And Salt Water

Or google you might get one cheaper elsewhere, but seapets are pretty good i've dealt with them a lot . I'd also recommend Seachem Stability too, its the bottled bacteria which can boost the cycle (but you don't have to get it, its just an aid if the cycle doesn't start). And don't forget the Jeyes Kleenoff Ammonia.

Hope that helps.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Oh bugger! It's a small independent aquatic and reptile shop, so had hoped the advice was sound but I'd rather follow yours. I'll nip in tomorrow before we go and ask for a refund on the filters and see if they'll take the Aquaplus back too. If the Stress Coat may come in handy one day, I may as well keep that as it was only a few pounds.

I have to say that Seapets is my local pet shop and I avoid it like the plague - but I'll order the suggested filter, Seachem Prime, Stability and ammonia online when we're back on Friday. 

Do you have any thoughts of what to rinse the new tank out with? Sorry, I'm hard work aren't I?!


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

There's no good bacteria yet in the new tank, so normal tapwater is fine for rinsing, so long as you use dechlorinated water once you actually fill it up! If there's any stubborn smears/marks or limescale on the glass, I find a bit of white vinegar normally works wonders (just rinse off afterwards) - don't use any cleaning fluids or chemicals, to avoid the risk of any nasties getting into the water.

Oh and when the filter arrives, take out the carbon media and set it aside - it's not much use as a filtration media (and works out expensive if you do use it, as you need to keep replacing it every 6-8 weeks). Order an extra pack of the ceramic media instead, and put that in its place. (The only time carbon media is useful is if you need to remove any chemicals or meds from the water, so it's worth hanging onto it just in case you ever need it for that, but the extra ceramic media will be much more useful on a day-to-day basis.)


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Ditto what Naomi said, and just adding that when you are rinsing, don't use any cloths to wipe smudges (unless they are brand new and well rinsed first) in case they have chemicals on them.

I've only ever dealt with seapets online - which store are you close too? I think they have two. Why do you avoid them? The online store seems ok anyway, but I have used others I just can't remember who!


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Ok thanks guys, got it. 

Colchester is my local store - dreadful customer service, rude staff, appalling small animal accommodation, seen dead fish in tanks with live ones on numerous occasions - all round just a grim dirty place! There's one in Ipswich too but never been there.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Right, I think I've got all the bits and pieces I need now so am about ready to get started.

The aquatic shop wouldn't refund the two internal Fluval filters and would only offer store credit instead - they only stocked 'mini' external filters so not powerful enough for our tank and I'm not likely to need to spend £130 in an aquatic shop again, so after a lot of hassle decided I was just going to have to cut my loses there  They didn't sell on eBay - so have found a new home with a local volunteer for Fish Orphans rescue, who will be able to find a use for them I'm sure. 

Anyway, I have an API Master test kit, a bottle of Seachem Prime and one of the Stability stuff, and a bottle of household ammonia here and an All Pond Solutions external filter suitable for a 600L tank should be waiting for me at the post office for collection tomorrow as I'm sure that was the delivery I missed on Friday.  

Tank has been rinsed out and filled up, so the Seachem Prime in now or wait until the filter is in and running?

Sorry, I know, I'm useless


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh noes sorry to hear they wouldn't refund the filters - that's terrible customer service for you, especially as they were unused. You could have got store credit and used it on something else though (keeping fish is addictive).

Stick the Prime in right away so the water is all ready to go when you get the filter set up. You can also do your baseline water tests now to see what readings your tap water gives you. You might want to do it before the Prime is added so you can see if there is anything residual in the tap water that you need to be aware of (the Prime will deal with it anyway).

I'd get the filter sorted and leave for a few days before starting the fishless cycle - just in case there are any problems with the filter (leaking, for example) and also it takes a few days for them to run in and expel any trapped air.

Once you are happy its running fine, then you can squeeze some dirty filter water onto the sponges and media (to seed the bacteria), add the ammonia (4ppm) and off you go


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Our cycle is going well, but a couple of quick Qs - the new filter makes quite a loud humming noise. It's not a problem throughout the day etc but when we're sitting in the lounge of an evening, it can get a little irritating if we're trying to read or watch telly etc. Would it be at all detrimental to turn the filter off for a few hours of an evening, say just from 7 to 11ish? It'd be turned back on overnight. Also, we only tend to turn the tank light on when we're in the lounge of an evening (the same kind of hours we're hoping to be able to turn the filter off!), does it matter at all how much light they receive?  The room itself is bright throughout the day.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

It doesn't matter to the fish how long the lights are on for, or even if you have them on at all, they don't care! It only really matters if you're trying to grow live plants 

The filter however does need to be on 24/7, and it will cause problems if turned off (sorry  ). I don't know what kind of filter you have, but are you sure there is no air trapped in there at all? I know my filters have been noisy in the past and it's been because of trapped air. Just a thought?


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

You can leave the lights off all the time - the fish don't need them. If you are trying to grow plants then lights do matter but they don't need to be on all day either.

The filter however does need to be on as magpie said. What kind of filter did you get in the end? Some filters are noisy to start with because they might have air trapped inside them. If this is an external filter then check the pipework for bubbles, the outflow for bubbles (are the pipes above or under water - above will make more splashing sounds), check all pipe connections are tight too in case they are pulling air in. 

If its an internal filter then its probably just vibration - some filters are noisier than others. All the interpet PF filters I had were VERY noisy, but the eheim aquaball I have now is silent. My unimax external is also virtually silent, but when I got another of the same filters (just the next size down) the noise was refusing to go away and in the end I took the filter back (after much communication with both the seller and manufacturers!). Sometimes its worth phoning the manufacturing helpline and asking for advise on that specific model, too.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks both. 

The filter is an All Pond Solutions external one. It's been running about a fortnight - I've checked for air bubbles etc and left it to see if it'd settle down, but it still hums away quite loudly. On the old/current tank which the fish are still in we have an internal filter and that is silent, you can only hear the very faintest vibration if you're right up close.

I'd loathe to have to get a new filter as we're doing well with the cycle and are about ready to put the fish in I think, but the noise really does grate!


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Alas with all externals there is a risk of getting a noisy one. The APS ones I seem to recall to have that problem. I would phone APS themselves and ask for advice - they might be able to give you some tips on reducing the noise, or it could the the filter is faulty in which case they will help you to get a refund.


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