# Dog/puppy crates???



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Morning all,
Whilst visitnig my local pet store yesterday i was surprised to see 2 dog crates been bought to be used in homes,to be honest i did not think many people actually used them in their homes,for travelling there are perfect,but im just wondering how many dog owners use crates inside their homes??and for what length of time are they used?again perfect if the dog is poorly but i really do not see why any dog would be in one for no other reason??Having being brought up with dogs and now owning 3 dogs including a 14week old puppy and an 11month old puppy i would never dream of locking any dog in a wire cage.
I was amazed yesterday to find dogs are been locked in cages in the homes over night,during the day whilst owners are out.
I have to say i just dont understand why so many dog owners can do this??especailly after seeing the largest of the crates sold!!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Many people use crates in the home these days, especially multi dog households, they should not be used to lock the dogs into, but as a place of santuary for the dogs, many pups are crate trained from the day they enter the home, the crate being used for it's bed.

I personally do not use them, but (having to have everything and try everything) do have one, when I put the crate up (if I have a rescue or foster) my eldest dogs loves it and is straight in there.

Nothing wrong with them, providing they are used correctly, and they should never be used to keep! a dog is for long periods of time
DT


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

I use crates,my dogs love their crates.

They are crated separately when I'm not about in the day and at night,they go in them on there own.

I crate trained both of mine from 8 weeks old when I brought them home,it keeps them safe from chewing electrical wires,which could potentially kill them, and helped us enormously with toilet training.


They are also useful when showing


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

There are many positive reason for crating a dog. 

You must remember that dogs are "den" creatures so you are creating a natural place for them to sleep.

My dog LOVES his crate and when we got him it allowed him a private space he could escape to if he was tired or unsure (with young children in the house that is a godsend.)

It also meant that he was totally safe when left and couldn't destroy stuff (i had a GSD that chewed the old wiring loom out of a wall once )

It aids toilet training too and dogs that are crate trained tend to suffer less anxiety when they need to be left in kennels or at the vets.

I think unless you have really looked at the reason for crating it isn't fair to judge peoples choice.

The intention of a crate is to give the dog a space to sleep overnight and when you are out and about during the day, it is not intended that the dog spend most of his time there. 

Some people give up the crate once the puppy is housetrained and past the destructive stage at about 12 months but alot continue to use it as their dogs are really happy in them.

You put a baby in a cot to keep it safe when it is sleeping how is a crate any different?


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

I have always used a crate since a german shephard ate my house and they are a god send. 

The only thing you would not use them for is punishment. 

My dogs love their crates and think of them as their own houses and place of safety. The children are not allowed near them so it is 'their' place.


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## nickylowe40 (Apr 13, 2009)

yes, i agree, crates can be really good, as long as used properly. 

We used ours when all of our pups where little, and it helped toilet train them. No dog likes to be close to its own poo/wee, but once they where clean of a night, the doors where left open, and to be honest, they still went in them, it was like there own space, and they had beds, toys etc in there.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

I can honestly say i would never dream of using one!!!


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

I think you have to see it to believe it - i took some convincing 14 years ago but i have not looked back since that day and i might also add the dogs are much happier too.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

I used to hate the idea, but having a 'bored-destructive' gsd in a rented flat- is NOT a good idea! Lol. 
I have never bought a crate 'new' from a shop- find them Far to expensive! My first ever crate was a plastic airline type one, bought for £5 from pdsa charity shop, it was big enough for my gsd.
I buy mine from ebay, they are about half the price than PaH!

Both my dogs Love thir crates, infact, neither of them will settle properly if we are out unless in the crate. I do eventually want to have it so that I can elave the crate open, but Dave is still a baby and isnt toilet trained, and i think he would annoy Dixie too much!

I have also found toilet training So much easier using a crate. 

x


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> I can honestly say i would never dream of using one!!!


And that is your choice,my O/H wasn't too keen to start with.
I really wouldn't be without mine 

I have piece of mind when I go out,knowing the dogs are safe and my house will be in one piece when I get home.
Plus the potential for a fight is always there with my breed so I don't take any chances


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Michelle,
Ill have to say I agree with you and I would never dream of locking up my boy in one either, for the day or for the night. My boy was a bit destructive at first but id rather address that issue than lock him up. 
I certainly do agree with the den idea and so I have a sort of crate for him for the night but he will never be locked in it (as a den would be, his "crate" is always opened)

But then as far as I understood it when I asked people, just like you did , most dont put their dogs in there for more than 3 hours at a time and usually no more than that for the whole day...
When I leave its usually for more than that so anyway it wouldnt be good for me!
Its more of an easy way to ensure your dog is safe if you are at home most of the time but obviously need to leave the dog once in a while, I dont think its for the working (away from home) type leaving their dogs 5 or 6 hours a day stretch. And so in that respect I have nothing against it, if used properly, i can understand the advantages, especially if you have more than one dog!

xx


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I have a crate for my 2 poodles and to them its their space and they love it especialy Mia.She is in there as i type lol.But the door is open and i will only close it at night.*


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Yep Oscar is only shut in when i am not in the house or at night.

How is it different to putting a baby/toddler in a cot?

It would be cruel to leave a baby crying in a cot all day but you would be considered slightly mental if you didn't put them in a cot overnight  I see it the same as that.

Each to their own.  But it is in no way cruel if used appropriately.


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## Dylan & Daisy (Feb 4, 2009)

michelle said:


> Morning all,
> Whilst visitnig my local pet store yesterday i was surprised to see 2 dog crates been bought to be used in homes,to be honest i did not think many people actually used them in their homes,for travelling there are perfect,but im just wondering how many dog owners use crates inside their homes??and for what length of time are they used?again perfect if the dog is poorly but i really do not see why any dog would be in one for no other reason??Having being brought up with dogs and now owning 3 dogs including a 14week old puppy and an 11month old puppy i would never dream of locking any dog in a wire cage.
> I was amazed yesterday to find dogs are been locked in cages in the homes over night,during the day whilst owners are out.
> I have to say i just dont understand why so many dog owners can do this??especailly after seeing the largest of the crates sold!!


Isnt a little judgemental to assume that ALL owner's lock their dogs up, just because they choose to use a crate?
I've bought one for mine but it's NOT a prison, it's a place for him to sleep or retreat to for some peace.......it's his sanctuary!! It will never be locked during the day or at night while in the home but as a travel crate obviously the door would need to be closed, should i choose to use it for this purpose. Please don't make the assumption that all owner's abuse the use of a crate.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

michelle said:


> I can honestly say i would never dream of using one!!!


*Hi michelle, can i ask what it is you don't like about using a crate? I should add, that using a crate as a punishment is a big NO.But as others have said dogs find them a safe secure place.*


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

rainy said:


> It would be cruel to leave a baby crying in a cot all day but you would be considered slightly mental if you didn't put them in a cot overnight  I see it the same as that.
> 
> .


Im constantly amazed at the number of people who think its ok for them to put a wee baby in their bed with them...and then dont understand how the baby turns out all blue by morning  :mad2:

So, my understanding is that a crate can be a very good thing
- for the puppyhood stage, depending on your house and how you want to housetrain them and such
- for the people who either work from home or otherwise are at home most of the time and only leave once in a while on a more or less irregular basis and for no more than 3 hours at a time
- with very destructive dogs (rescue maybe) and after all other solutions have failed - but again it will have to be with an owner at home most of the time like above.
- when the household has more than one dog and there is the possibility of a deadly fight - again with the owner being at home most of the time so that it is not used for over 3 hours stretch.

A crate is otherwise a great thing if used as an open den,, with the door opened, no doubt about that!! Especially for the night or with young kids about, or an older dog etc It is a den, or a sanctuary for the dog. But then a den doesnt have to be a metallic crate, there are loads of options out there!

When a crate is not good, in my opinion, is when used throughout the day, closed!, for 5-6 or 7 hours, stretch or not, just as an easy way to keep the dog contained!

xx


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Just to add mine was invaluable last year when we had Meg spayed,obviously she needed to be kept quiet for a couple of weeks,so we rotated the dogs,she spent time in her crate and Tyler in with us and vice versa


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

AngelXoXo said:


> Isnt a little judgemental to assume that ALL owner's lock their dogs up, just because they choose to use a crate?
> I've bought one for mine but it's NOT a prison, it's a place for him to sleep or retreat to for some peace.......it's his sanctuary!! It will never be locked during the day or at night while in the home but as a travel crate obviously the door would need to be closed, should i choose to use it for this purpose. Please don't make the assumption that all owner's abuse the use of a crate.


Looking at the thing, its wired cage so its a reasonable assumption to make that it is intended to be closed .. I made the same one at first 
Obviously the OP was addressing the issue of people locking their dog there, I wouldnot call it "crating" if the owner leaves the door opened!
Having an opened crate at home is cleary not an issue, its just anything you buy for the dog, bed or toy or whatever, it is not imposed on the dog and so the dog can choose to love it or not and certainly nobody will come to criticise that


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

I am entitled to my own opinion and i don not recall making judgements about everybody AngelXoXo it was simply a new thread regarding dog crates!Whilst i clearly stated they have good use ie ideal for travelling,use when a dog needs to be confind(ill etc).ME personally would never use one that is my choice.Whilst i am out my dogs are free to and have lots of room in my kitchen,dinning room and hall they are never confind to a metal cage.They are in no danger whilst i am out as there is no electrical wires etc.To be honest i would not consider of owning a dog knowing it was going to spend time locked in a cage.If any of our dogs need their own space they know they are free to go in another room.To me its about my dogs having freedom and me personally i want to address any issues and deal with my dog and two puppies in the home not by using a cage.Also now the nice weather is here my dogs are very happy spending time out in our big garden which is securely fenced so if i am out i can leave them outside playing in the fresh air surely any dog would be much happier than been in a crate whilst owners are out working etc????


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

May i just add an open crate is not the issue here yes i agree dogs need their own space tho my dogs have their own beds and we are lucky to have a house big enough for the dogs to have their own space!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Oblada said:


> Michelle,
> Ill have to say I agree with you and I would never dream of locking up my boy in one either, for the day or for the night. My boy was a bit destructive at first but id rather address that issue than lock him up.
> I certainly do agree with the den idea and so I have a sort of crate for him for the night but he will never be locked in it (as a den would be, his "crate" is always opened)
> 
> ...


Thank you Oblada.


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

I would never leave my dog outside unattended. The can eat stones, sticks, dig their way out to find you and also make noise. My dogs bay/bark if they think i have left them when they are outside. 
All of us only use our crates for short times or through the night. 
I once had a huge dog and a tiny dog and the big one bit the small one one night so we had to seperate for their safety. We didn't have two kitchens!
A crate meant they could stay together safely. 
I think Rainy has the right idea - it is a bit like a baby cot. My dogs now sit in theirs randomly throughout the day with the door open, as i said earlier, its a house. 
We all know you can have your opinions but people can also change their minds given more insight.   (i don't mean you should but some people just wanted to present to other side of the story _in case_)


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I'm a little confused,as i said when i last replied Mia was in her crate,the patio door is open,as is the lounge door she has the freedom to go where she likes apart from upstairs.Surely if the dogs didnt like the crate they wouldn't choose to go in there.And yes of course you are entitled to your oppion.*


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

My dogs are as safe in our garden as they are anywhere else.We have a 4ft wall with fencing on the top,the whole garden is block paved so no way can they escape or dig any holes!!They have a shelter and make no noice unless a stranger passes as most dogs do.My dogs have been brought up spending as much time out in the garden as they like or they are free to come thru the dog flap.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

As already stated open crates are not the issue!!!:confused1:


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## cavmad (Jan 27, 2009)

I use crates for some of my mob when i go out so i know that they are safe and not chewing anything. I also have a couple that counter surf and open any cupboards and fridge (1 was left in a house when the owners moved out she was there for about a week before anyone knew she was there and she is food mad.)As i have a various sizes from a Leonberger to a chi i feel it safest to leave them seperate incase Indie treads on Ike. When i'm here the doors are open and they choose to sleep in them. Ollie sleeps in his as he paces as soon as it gets light.Any fosters i have sleep in a puppy pen as they are usually x puppy farm bitches and so it helps house train them .


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

OK before i begin, i do respect your opinion on the matter however my views do differ from yours.

I use a crate for billy. During the day 99% of the time it is open and he has free access of the rooms i choose which is designated by babygates. If however i have to leave the room (we all have to pee) with billy and my children, he does get popped into his crate with the door shut. This works for us as my kids fully understands the boundary the crate creates - its billys space and they are not allowed near it. 

On a night he does sleep in his crate, and yes i shut the door. Originally it was shut to aid with housetraining, now he doesnt settle properly unless i shut the crate - he just sits inside and whines until the door is closed and the blanket draped over it. This is his bedtime routine and he wouldnt be happy if i changed it. 

It all comes down to personal opinion. I am not berating you for yours, however neither should i be made to feel like i am mistreating my pet for using a crate in a proper manner.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Whilst on the sugject of Crates, whereby I have already had my say just wanted to add.

I seldom shut my dogs in any are of the house, stupid I may be but I have a fear that if ever there is a fire there is nothing little that the dogs could do to save themselves in the event of a fire, Not long after I had my first weim I read a story in which three of a total weims had died due to the effects of smoke due to being trapped in a small room of a house.

Also you will all remember the New Orleans hurrican, a headline their that touched me was a number of cats drowning in a house - the story did not go into detail but I 'assumed' that they were crated otherwise surely they would have made it to safety.

Silly reasons I have maybe - but thats me - again I add I have nothing whatsoever against crates providing they are used properly
DT


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Oblada said:


> Im constantly amazed at the number of people who think its ok for them to put a wee baby in their bed with them...and then dont understand how the baby turns out all blue by morning  :mad2:
> 
> So, my understanding is that a crate can be a very good thing
> - for the puppyhood stage, depending on your house and how you want to housetrain them and such
> ...


Yes Oblada this is how a crate is intended to be used and how i use mine so it is closed for some of the time.

I would ask the OP if she has children and if she does did she put them in a cot at night and for naps or did they have the full run of the house??

It's just a different way of looking at it. 

I think unless you have experienced what a destructive large breed dog can do it is easy to be dismissive but as i said my old GSD took and old wiring loom out of the wall !!! Luckily the loop was no longer live 

I think the "tone" of this posters thread suggests that there is something cruel about crating and there is a suggestion that it is mistreating the dog in some way and i object quite strongly to that.

I LOVE my dog and would NEVER do anything that was detrimental to his well being.


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

I've quit the thread because i feel a little under pressure. :yikes: :thumbdown:

can't quite work out why they started the thread?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Mine are not locked in there crates when I'm about the doors are open,they squeeze in one crate together 

I would never ever leave my dogs unsupervised together outside,they would trash the garden and with dog theft on the increase,I would be worried about them.
If a dog is determined enough they will escape,no fence etc would stop them.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Am i not allowed to have an opinion???If you go back to the start of this post i simply asked about using crates!!And YES in my opinion it is creul to keep dogs in wire cages!!
Sorry if i am not entitled to have an opinion!


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

michelle said:


> Am i not allowed to have an opinion???If you go back to the start of this post i simply asked about using crates!!And YES in my opinion it is creul to keep dogs in wire cages!!
> Sorry if i am not entitled to have an opinion!


what EXACTLY were you asking?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

The qusetions are quite clear at the start of the thread??:


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

The thing with crate is that to some people it is nothing more or nothing less than a cage and some people (like me) can have a pretty strong issue regarding animals in cages... personnally i cant take it, i would never have a hamster or any animal that would require a cage, I just cant stand it, its a personal thing, not just an ethical stand. A little bit like DT thinking a fire or flood may happen.. it is not necessarily reasonable and realistic but its a matter of individual personality.
My boy has a "crate" but its not a cage, its not metallic  and I never lock him in it. Its my choice. He sleeps there at night, in our bedroom.

It would be cruel to leave a dog for hours on end stuck in a crate, such as if the owner does this as he goes to work 9-5, thats what I think the OP is thinking about and I dont think most people in this forum should feel personally concerned by that as I think we all agree this is not appropriate behaviour with a dog.
Passed that unethical use of the crate, whether people want to use it very sparingly for various other reasons and short periods of time is perfectly up to them as long as their dog is happy in it


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

michelle said:


> The qusetions are quite clear at the start of the thread??:


we have all answered you initial questions several times. I think this thread is now going no-where. i'm gone.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> Am i not allowed to have an opinion???If you go back to the start of this post i simply asked about using crates!!And YES in my opinion it is creul to keep dogs in wire cages!!
> Sorry if i am not entitled to have an opinion!


Yes you are perfectly entitled to your opinion however it is the suggestion that i am being cruel to my dog i take absolute objection to. You have no idea what you are talking about in MY opinion. You can't expect to post something like that and not get this reaction i'm afraid.

You still haven't answered my question about putting a baby in a cot.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> Am i not allowed to have an opinion???If you go back to the start of this post i simply asked about using crates!!And YES in my opinion it is creul to keep dogs in wire cages!!
> Sorry if i am not entitled to have an opinion!


So those of that choose to use crates are been cruel to our dogs then,Is this what you are trying to imply ?

I strongly object to that and if more owners were to use crates instead of the dogs been left to their own devices and chewing the house up,perhaps,just perhaps they wouldn't end up in rescue.

I like to know my dogs are safe, and secure,leaving them unsupervised in a garden is not my idea of safe!


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> So those of that choose to use crates are been cruel to our dogs then,Is this what you are trying to imply ?
> 
> I strongly object to that and if more owners were to use crates instead of the dogs been left to their own devices and chewing the house up,perhaps,just perhaps they wouldn't end up in rescue.
> 
> I like to know my dogs are safe, and secure,leaving them unsupervised in a garden is not my idea of safe!


agreed if we for one minute thought our dogs were unhappy we would not do this.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

michelle said:


> Morning all,
> Whilst visitnig my local pet store yesterday i was surprised to see 2 dog crates been bought to be used in homes,to be honest i did not think many people actually used them in their homes,for travelling there are perfect,but im just wondering how many dog owners use crates inside their homes??and for what length of time are they used?again perfect if the dog is poorly but i really do not see why any dog would be in one for no other reason??Having being brought up with dogs and now owning 3 dogs including a 14week old puppy and an 11month old puppy i would never dream of locking any dog in a wire cage.
> I was amazed yesterday to find dogs are been locked in cages in the homes over night,during the day whilst owners are out.
> I have to say i just dont understand why so many dog owners can do this??especailly after seeing the largest of the crates sold!!





michelle said:


> The qusetions are quite clear at the start of the thread??:


*I can only see 2 questions and they have been answerd.The rest looks more like a statement.*


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

What rude members there is on here!i find it funny how the members been very diffensive are the ones using wire cages!!At least i know my dogs are never locked in cages and are happy healthy dogs!!To me using cages is no better than puppy farming!!its a disgrace leaving any dog in a cage for any amount of time.I would never lock my children in a room which to me is exactly what your doing.
Goodbye forum!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Oblada said:


> The thing with crate is that to some people it is nothing more or nothing less than a cage and some people (like me) can have a pretty strong issue regarding animals in cages... personnally i cant take it, i would never have a hamster or any animal that would require a cage, I just cant stand it, its a personal thing, not just an ethical stand. A little bit like DT thinking a fire or flood may happen.. it is not necessarily reasonable and realistic but its a matter of individual personality.
> My boy has a "crate" but its not a cage, its not metallic  and I never lock him in it. Its my choice. He sleeps there at night, in our bedroom.
> 
> It would be cruel to leave a dog for hours on end stuck in a crate, such as if the owner does this as he goes to work 9-5, thats what I think the OP is thinking about and I dont think most people in this forum should feel personally concerned by that as I think we all agree this is not appropriate behaviour with a dog.
> Passed that unethical use of the crate, whether people want to use it very sparingly for various other reasons and short periods of time is perfectly up to them as long as their dog is happy in it


But the OP is not saying this is she? She has just said a blanket ALL crating is cruel.

To the Original Poster.

I am off out for a coffee now and i will get Oscar his stuffed kong (which is his crate treat) he will RUN and get in his crate with a big waggy tail BECAUSE HE LOVES IT!!!!!! and then i will close the door and go out for an hour knowing he is happy and safe.

He will have his kong and then nap until i get back totally happy, no barking, no clawing at the "cage" to get out.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT CAN BE WRONG WITH THAT but feel free to call the RSPCA and report me i bet they haven't had a good laugh in ages.


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

must admit i had to laugh too.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> What rude members there is on here!i find it funny how the members been very diffensive are the ones using wire cages!!At least i know my dogs are never locked in cages and are happy healthy dogs!!To me using cages is no better than puppy farming!!its a disgrace leaving any dog in a cage for any amount of time.I would never lock my children in a room which to me is exactly what your doing.
> Goodbye forum!


You really are totally ignorant aren't you?

You LOCK the door to your house don't you?? That is locking them in.

DO YOU LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN IN A COT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> What rude members there is on here!i find it funny how the members been very diffensive are the ones using wire cages!!At least i know my dogs are never locked in cages and are happy healthy dogs!!To me using cages is no better than puppy farming!!its a disgrace leaving any dog in a cage for any amount of time.I would never lock my children in a room which to me is exactly what your doing.
> Goodbye forum!


Rude,
I can only see one member on this been rude and that is the one who started the thread,obviously you can't debate in an adult manner and insult those of us that choose to use crates.

We make decisions based on what is best for our circumstances and our dogs,if you haven't tried it how can you be so judgemental and blinkered ?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

rainy said:


> i will get Oscar his stuffed kong (which is his crate treat)


Stuffed Kong is my boy's "leaving treat" as well..dont they love it  I sometimes feel my dog trying to push me out of the door to have his kong sooner 

Just to end with this crate topic;
I can understand why some people wouldnt like to use a cage for any amount of time, i wouldnt personnally feel very happy knowing my boy in it...but then I wouldnt say it is cruel, if its for short periods of time, the crate is big enough, the dog is happy in it and there is a good reason behind it, I personally think its fine.

To the OP
dont leave the forum over this, its all a bit of a misunderstanding I think and people being a bit sensitive when they feel accused of dog-neglect (you wont find many cruel owners "wasting" their time on this forum I can assure you this )
some issues are just more sensitive than others and we all tend to be a bit defensive when it comes to our dogs (or our kids.. )!

xx


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

michelle said:


> What rude members there is on here!i find it funny how the members been very diffensive are the ones using wire cages!!At least i know my dogs are never locked in cages and are happy healthy dogs!!To me using cages is no better than puppy farming!!its a disgrace leaving any dog in a cage for any amount of time.I would never lock my children in a room which to me is exactly what your doing.
> Goodbye forum!


*Pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.*


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Personally I don't use or like crates BUT I can see the need for them, good god if I had crates in my house I'd no house left...5 crates and a terrace house don't mix!!!! 

Obviously with anything it's open to abuse but used in the correct and sensible way they are a good tool for dogs that cannot be left with free run of the house. I'd never ever leave a dog in one for longer than an hour but I have one for foster dogs to use if they so want. Usually I put my cat in it to cat test fosters so he can't come to any harm, but that's only for 2 minutes, then it's shoved back in the shed. My dogs all travel in crates in the back of my van because it's safer than having them loose. 

I don't see the need for people to get so defensive about them, it's personal choice and if the dog isn't worried about it why should anyone else be?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

In my personal opinion, its more irresponsible to lock a dog, unattended, in a garden, than it is to safely crate them in a house. The OP stated her dogs only bark when strangers go past, but if you arent there, how do you know that? One of my pet hates is constant barking from dogs that are shut outside.

I used crates for both my dogs as puppies, i wouldnt have been without one. I dread to think how much i would have worried had i not known my dogs were safely enclosed. I used a crate until my boys were about 3. I would alternate who was to go in the crate, and who would have the run of my kitchen. There was no way i was even going to remotely risk my dogs having an altercation whilst i wasnt there. My cage wasnt small, i have 2 SBT's, they can both fit in my cage, and you could still fit a great dane in there with them its that spacious.

I havent used my crate for a long time now. The last time i did was when my dog had his leg amputated, and then it was done for his own safety. If i hadnt had one, then he could easily has hurt himself, or accidently been hurt by my other dog, and undone the extensive surgery he'd had done. I still have my crate, and i will always have one. they are a godsend in many situations.

I see no reason in this thread, all you have done is ask who used them and for how long, and then implied that they are cruel. You say that if your dogs become destructive, then thats something you would address. I say prevent them from causing damage in the first place. Id never dream of leaving a puppy or young dog with free run of my house. The risk to the health and safety to the dog is far too high.


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.*


Well said Jan

I have tried to abstain myself from commenting on this thread but i am sorry i am going to. If you find this post 'rude' i suggest you just stop posting threads about asking our opinions on matters if you are going to think they are rude - omg!

As for putting our dogs in crates/pens we are not locking them up! We are keeping them in a safe controlled environment when we are not around to supervise them. I have a toy poodle who we put in a pen when we are not at home. That pen is only used for bedtime and again as i said when we are not at home to watch him. Sensible owners do not use the crate or pen as a form of punishment but for training purposes and to make sure our babies are safe when we are not around. My toy poodle only is ever out of his pen when we aren't with him. He can't stand being in his pen no matter how many toys or chews we leave in there but he knows his place, and knows when he has to go in there. But never ever have we devised his pen as a cage! If we were to do that, RSPCA would be knocking on every single dog owners door in this country and these dogs would be far worse by being stuck in kennels all dy long in pounds and at risk of being pts! so think about all that before you decide us sensible, kind, dog loving owners are rude for giving our opinions on the matter out. And if you don't like our opinions, please please please don't bother to post. Not being rude but i don't like it when my fellow forumers are being accused of being rude when we are trying to help and pass our opinions.

Case closed! and Rant over!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> You say that if your dogs become destructive, then thats something you would address. I say prevent them from causing damage in the first place..


I said that and I stand by it 
My boy had the run of the kitchen/dining area from day one (although didnt leave him alone for any length of time for the first few months) and he was a bit destructive at the beginning but id rather deal with that than use a crate. As a matter of fact I did deal with it and now my boy is perfectly fine left on his own. And anyway when I have to leave its more for 5 hours ish and so I would never consider a crate for that amount of time.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

I don't think the O/P said that anyone was being cruel - she merely asked the question - and I will be the first to admit When I first had dog and became aware of crates I did as it happens believe that it was cruel to put a dog in a crate for any reason!
It is only now that I am 'educated' on crates that my initial opinion has changed!

Sometimes the way people write things on forums can appear wrong! Think thats whats happened here - people have taken umberidge!!
DT


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

michelle said:


> Am i not allowed to have an opinion???If you go back to the start of this post i simply asked about using crates!!And YES in my opinion it is creul to keep dogs in wire cages!!
> Sorry if i am not entitled to have an opinion!





DoubleTrouble said:


> I don't think the O/P said that anyone was being cruel - she merely asked the question - and I will be the first to admit When I first had dog and became aware of crates I did as it happens believe that it was cruel to put a dog in a crate for any reason!
> It is only now that I am 'educated' on crates that my initial opinion has changed!
> 
> Sometimes the way people write things on forums can appear wrong! Think thats whats happened here - people have taken umberidge!!
> DT


*Yes the other person did say it was cruel DT. please read all the thread pmsl.*


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Yes the other person did say it was cruel DT. please read all the thread pmsl.*


You fter Rona's job? or summat??? the pays poor yer know!
DT


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> You fter Rona's job? or summat??? the pays poor yer know!
> DT


*No rona's job is safe, i was just bored.*


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> Morning all,
> Whilst visitnig my local pet store yesterday i was surprised to see 2 dog crates been bought to be used in homes,to be honest i did not think many people actually used them in their homes,for travelling there are perfect,but im just wondering how many dog owners use crates inside their homes??and for what length of time are they used?again perfect if the dog is poorly but i really do not see why any dog would be in one for no other reason??Having being brought up with dogs and now owning 3 dogs including a 14week old puppy and an 11month old puppy i would never dream of locking any dog in a wire cage.
> I was amazed yesterday to find dogs are been locked in cages in the homes over night,during the day whilst owners are out.
> I have to say i just dont understand why so many dog owners can do this??especailly after seeing the largest of the crates sold!!


I never used a crate for my last dog which i had for 16 years or any of the dogs i had before that, and I have had dogs for 47 years. I decided to try a crate when i bought my new dog last year and i wish i had known how good they are for the dog and i would have had them before. 
My dog is so happy in her crate in the house and as a responible dog owner i also have a smaller one for her in the car. I need to know she is safe at all times.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

At first I thought the idea of locking a dog in a cage was cruel and unnecessary, but after a little research my views changed completely and I decided to give it a go.

To Michelle: Can I just ask how old your dogs are? As a pup, there is no way I could of left Zach unattended in the garden or house! The dangers are numerous and some fatal 

To follow on from all the other "craters" Zach is also very settled in his crate. He is never left for more than 4 hours and is only put in there after a long run. He is given kongs, chews etc to keep him occupied but he usually just sleeps. I see nothing wrong with it, and would feel much more at ease knowing he is in there and safe rather than roaming around outside. As Sallyanne said with the rise of dog thieving I just would not feel comfortable with it.

When he is a little more mature we will probably leave the cage door open and give him access to the living room, I'm not sure yet but to be honest he is so cosy in his crate I can't see him leaving it.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

I think we may have seen the back of this particular poster 

She wasn't keen on our views.


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

crates are brilliant,they help with house training and a number of other issuesi crate my patterdale during the night,and her and my border terrier x are shut in the run in the garden during the day,when im out.(a giant metal cage):thumbup1:


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

rainy said:


> I think we may have seen the back of this particular poster
> 
> She wasn't keen on our views.


LOL I just read through this thread - I thought it was really funny :lol:

the OP asked about crates, she got answers and because they weren't the answers she wanted, she went off in a huff LOL

what a spoilt brat of a woman


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

I do feel people, on both sides, have been a slightly bit defensive on this issue and not sure insults is the way forward... its not all black and white and its a shame to lose a member over a sensitive issue like this.

I can understand why someone would see a wired cage as cruel, I would have said so myself before and I know im not alone. 
Now I do realise that crate may be good solution for some when used sparingly and appropriately, and depending on the circumstances, but it is not necessarily sth obvious to everyone at first and the debate gets a bit muddled when people start defending the use of a crate as a den for their dog, which is not the point; the point is the use of a crate as a locked cage to confine a dog for whatever reason.

Im sure the OP didnt mean to say anybody here was cruel and hope she will be back to say so herself 

xx


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Oblada said:


> I do feel people, on both sides, have been a slightly bit defensive on this issue and not sure insults is the way forward... its not all black and white and its a shame to lose a member over a sensitive issue like this.
> 
> I can understand why someone would see a wired cage as cruel, I would have said so myself before and I know im not alone.
> Now I do realise that crate may be good solution for some when used sparingly and appropriately, and depending on the circumstances, but it is not necessarily sth obvious to everyone at first and the debate gets a bit muddled when people start defending the use of a crate as a den for their dog, which is not the point; the point is the use of a crate as a locked cage to confine a dog for whatever reason.
> ...


I felt it was strongly implied that we were cruel. Perhaps I'm wrong, it's just how I feel.


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

louise5031 said:


> As a pup, there is no way I could of left Zach unattended in the garden or house! The dangers are numerous and some fatal


Indeed! No matter how safe your home is, there are still dangers and puppies can get into all sorts of mischief. Not destructive behaviour but natural curiosity can lead to trouble.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Thank you Oblada i will not be put off by what i hope is a small minority of the sad,horrible members on here.Ithink its very sad when old members can not accept other people opinions it makes not only the members but the forum feel very sad and shrivelled up!!


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Sophiex said:


> I felt it was strongly implied that we were cruel. Perhaps I'm wrong, it's just how I feel.


I also get that impression.

We've never used a crate for our dog, just because we've never felt the need for one but in future I probably will use them for my own dogs, and I do kind of wish i'd used one for our dog. If we get a second dog, I will talk to my parents about getting her a crate so that she feels a little safer in her new environment.

I have nothing against them when they're used properly - which I have no doubt that members of this forum do. Obviously nobody on here would condone the improper use of a crate so I don't understand what the OP is getting at


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

michelle said:


> Thank you Oblada i will not be put off by what i hope is a small minority of the sad,horrible members on here.Ithink its very sad when old members can not accept other people opinions it makes not only the members but the forum feel very sad and shrivelled up!!


I accept your opinion. I do not accept you implying that crating my dog is cruel.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Is it just me or did the OP sound a little too inflammatory? Isnt there a word for people who post topics just to create arguements?
My 3 are crated every night, the smallest 2 in cat carriers!, and frankly I dont care too much on their opinions on the subject. My cats came first and everyone gets a better nights sleep without worry about what the other species is up too!!
They have to be locked or else Frisbee, the incontinent cat, will sidle in and pee all over their bedding!Also Im sure if Mathew really hated his crate, with comfy duvet, teddy bear and chew toy he wouldnt take himself off to bed in the dining room between 8-10 every night!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

I was not getting at anything!!!I simply asked about the use of "crates"or cages as they are its amazing how many members have jumped down my throat and why because i never lock my own dog in a cage???


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## charlie9009 (Nov 24, 2008)

I never liked the thought of crates, and thought they were cruel, untill I read up about them, so I understand people thinking they're not nice. However if you think this I would recomend researching them.

I have used one when we had our staffie and she loved it. She would go in there if she wanted peace and quite, during the day when we went out, at night and if we went camping (which we did quite a bit) it would come with us and she would sleep in it then. We never intended to use it at nights, but she prefered to sleep in there than anywhere else, so she couldn't have hated it! As soon as she knew we were going out she would run in there and wait for her treats and kong. To be honest they were normally still there when we got back as she would normally go to sleep when we were out. We found the crate helped with seperation anxiety and toilet training. 

Not all dogs need to have one, but I would use one again if I needed to.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> Thank you Oblada i will not be put off by what i hope is a small minority of the sad,horrible members on here.Ithink its very sad when old members can not accept other people opinions it makes not only the members but the forum feel very sad and shrivelled up!!


Older member's do accept other's opinions,it seems to me that you expected others to agree with you and when we didn't you were pretty insulting and downright rude.

Members object to been called cruel.
It is our choice to use a crate,it is your choice not to,as long as the dogs are well cared for,looked after and loved,does it really matter ?


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

michelle said:


> Thank you Oblada i will not be put off by what i hope is a small minority of the sad,horrible members on here.Ithink its very sad when old members can not accept other people opinions it makes not only the members but the forum feel very sad and shrivelled up!!





rainy said:


> Yes you are perfectly entitled to your opinion





Georges Mum said:


> We all know you can have your opinion





JANICE199 said:


> *And yes of course you are entitled to your oppion.*





billyboysmammy said:


> OK before i begin, i do respect your opinion on the matter however my views do differ from yours.
> 
> It all comes down to personal opinion. I am not berating you for yours





sallyanne said:


> And that is your choice


I think you'll find your opinion has been accepted by everyone! It seems to be you who is not accepting theirs.



michelle said:


> I was not getting at anything!!!I simply asked about the use of "crates"or cages as they are its amazing how many members have jumped down my throat and why because i never lock my own dog in a cage???


NOBODY on this forum "locks their dog in a cage" unless it is at night when the dog is sleeping, or while the owners are out in order to stop the dog from wrecking the house and injuring itself........... so are you telling us it's cruel to let a destructive dog have free reign of a house it could so easily fatally injure itself in? Shutting your dogs out in the garden is also equally unfair, as there are many hazards and little safety, no matter how big your fence is


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## Poppy09 (Feb 22, 2009)

When we were researching before we got our puppy the idea of puttting a dog in a crate seemed cruel BUT upon researching and speaking to experience dog owners we felt it would work for us so got one as soon as we got our puppy, she goes in it overnight with her cozy blanket and cuddly dog toy! This is her "quiet" place where she can go, if one of our cats gets in it she gets very upset! It has also helped with toilet training so I would def recommend it to others.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Of course i accepted members to agree im appaulled at how many people think its ok to lock a dog in a metal cage!!!some of these dogs must be in these cages for hours whilst people are out at work,sleeping etc!!


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

michelle said:


> Of course i accepted members to agree im appaulled at how many people think its ok to lock a dog in a metal cage!!!some of these dogs must be in these cages for hours whilst people are out at work,sleeping etc!!


I don't think you'll find many of us here who leave our dogs "for hours whilst we are at work"!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

My dog is not distressed in any way, surely it is safer for a puppy to be kept in a safe place rather than left to roam around with cables to chew through etc?!

In a perfect world we would be present round the clock to watch them but sometimes that just isn't feasible.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

My dogs are not shut in the garden as stated hours ago i have a big back garden and a dog flap allowing my dogs FREEDOM to come in and out of our house as they please!!


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

michelle said:


> Of course i accepted members to agree im appaulled at how many people think its ok to lock a dog in a metal cage!!!some of these dogs must be in these cages for hours whilst people are out at work,sleeping etc!!


but it has been stated on here time and time again that dogs LIKE their crates - it is a place of comfort and safety for them. Believe me, if a dog didn't want to go in a crate, it would not go in.

I ask you again - would you consider it safe or fair to let a destructive dog have free run of a house where it could fatally injure itself while the owners are away?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Another advantage of crating is that your dog is used to being in that situation and won't get as stressed if crating was ever unavoidable ie. at the vets before an operation etc...


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> Of course i accepted members to agree im appaulled at how many people think its ok to lock a dog in a metal cage!!!some of these dogs must be in these cages for hours whilst people are out at work,sleeping etc!!


Exactly now re-read your post,if that isn't putting experienced dog owners and breeders down I don't know what is.

I shut the doors on mine overnight and when I'm not around,do you know what's cruel,coming home to a dead dog or badly injured one because they have had a fight or one that needs urgent vet treatment because it's either eaten something it shouldn't have or had an electric shock!
Now to me that's downright irresponsible because it could have been prevented.
Oh and how the hell are you going to address,chewing issues,trashing the garden when your not around ?

And yes I do think it's fine to lock a dog in a crate for a few hours during the day and overnight.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

michelle said:


> My dogs are not shut in the garden as stated hours ago i have a big back garden and a dog flap allowing my dogs FREEDOM to come in and out of our house as they please!!


this forum is for pet LOVERS not pet ABUSERS so I dont see why you think for one minute that we would be cruel to our animals. If crating is cruel then I suggest you get ringing the RSPCA now, it'll take a long time to report thousands and thousands of people!!!!!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

AGAIN as i have stated hours ago my dogs have FREEDOM to go out in our garden and in our kitchen,dining room and hall where there is no electric cables etc so they can come to no harm!!


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## charlie9009 (Nov 24, 2008)

michelle said:


> What rude members there is on here!i find it funny how the members been very diffensive are the ones using wire cages!!At least i know my dogs are never locked in cages and are happy healthy dogs!!To me using cages is no better than puppy farming!!its a disgrace leaving any dog in a cage for any amount of time.I would never lock my children in a room which to me is exactly what your doing.
> Goodbye forum!


 Your dogs may be happy not using a crate, and that is good. However, Tess, my staffie, was NOT happy having run of the house if we were out. We got a crate to see if it would help with her seperation anxiety, and it did. She loved it, as I said before. Does this make me cruel? I AM NOT ANYTHING LIKE A PUPPY FARMER and do not appreciate being compared to one!!! 

What you are saying is no different than me saying it is cruel to leave your dogs running round your house/garden unattended as anything could happen to them!! I don't think this. I think that whatever works best for the owner and dog is fine (ie crate or loose) and as long as neither thing is abused then what is the problem?


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## Poppy09 (Feb 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> My dogs are not shut in the garden as stated hours ago i have a big back garden and a dog flap allowing my dogs FREEDOM to come in and out of our house as they please!!


You are lucky you have the facilities to do this - plus I would not leave my dog unattended even in my own garden - what if someone stole them??


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

michelle said:


> AGAIN as i have stated hours ago my dogs have FREEDOM to go out in our garden and in our kitchen,dining room and hall where there is no electric cables etc so they can come to no harm!!


no electric cables in ALL of those rooms? Do you live in a tent?


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

if a dog -CRATE- CRATE YES I SAID CRATE -IS THAT BAD WHY DO THE REHOMING PEOPLE 1)SELL THEM
2)RECOMMEND THEM 3) USE THEM THEMSELVES.

hOW DARE YOU COME HERE PREACHING WHEN YOU HAVE NEVER USED ONE YOURSELF. 
yOU ASKED 2 QUESTIONS AND WE ANSWERED.

wE DID NOT TELL YOU TO GO BUY ONE.

WE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS. NOW YOU ANSWER THIS -* DO YOU USE A COT FOR YOUR CHILDREN?
*
WE DO NOT LOCK OUR DOGS IN CAGES. wE PUT THEM TO BED, THEY HAVE ROUTINE AND STABILITY AND SAFETY FOR THE DURATION OF THE NIGHT. IF I LET MY DOG OUT OF THIS ROUTINE HE WOULD BECOME ANXIOUS.

SORRY TO SHOUT. :crying:


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Very well said, George's Mum. Blob for you


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

All i can say is i really pity all of your pets!!!At the end of the day you lock your so called loved pets in metal cages its an absolute disgrace!


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

michelle said:


> All i can say is i really pity all of your pets!!!At the end of the day you lock your so called loved pets in metal cages its an absolute disgrace!


YOU ARE SO OUT OF ORDER. oH AND IF YOU WANT TO BE PEDANTIC - I DON'T LOCK I CLOSE THE HINGE.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

The Op has obviously come on here with a closed and ignorant mind, and i doubt there is anything anyone on here can say to change her opinion.

Shes under the impression that they are cruel, and that shows her lack of knowledge and understanding. Thousands upon thousands of dog owners cant be wrong, so i see no point of arguing the matter out with just one individual.

There is no majorly right or wrong way of raising a dog. If she doesnt mind a chewed house, with dirt and feces trampled through it, then thats her choice. If she wishes to risk her dogs being stolen or eating something they shouldnt do in the garden, then thats her choice. To be honest, i dont really care.

She can call me, and anyone else on this forum, cruel for crating a dog as much as she likes. Doesnt change the fact that i will always do whats best for the health and welfare of my dogs, knowing full well that if i ever crate them, its not an act of cruelty. I cant take offence over a comment made by someone who obviously has no idea what they are talking about.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

michelle said:


> All i can say is i really pity all of your pets!!!At the end of the day you lock your so called loved pets in metal cages its an absolute disgrace!


Look love, I really think you're just trying to wind us up now. Either that or you really are so ignorant that you have not taken in any of our PERFECTLY GOOD AND NOT AT ALL CRUEL reasons for using a crate.

I think we should just leave this thread alone and ignore this user - she is obviously either trying to wind us up or gain attention.


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## Poppy09 (Feb 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> All i can say is i really pity all of your pets!!!At the end of the day you lock your so called loved pets in metal cages its an absolute disgrace!


Did you just come here to start an argument....sounds like it?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Do you think it makes the whole thing sound better calling them crate they are a metal cage with limted space for dogs which is nasty and cruel!!!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

My dog uses her bed whenever she wants, I am with her all day almost every day as i am unable to work. If i did work long hours it would not be a case of would i leave my dog in her bed or not or outside because i would not have a dog if i had to leave her for so long. I know some people do and thats fine, lots of people have more than one dog so that they have company. I don't have a problem with people not having crates for their dogs though I feel some dogs would defenitely benefit from it.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Poppy09 said:


> Did you just come here to start an argument....sounds like it?


if she didn't in the first place, she certainly is now :nono:


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> All i can say is i really pity all of your pets!!!At the end of the day you lock your so called loved pets in metal cages its an absolute disgrace!


HOW DARE YOU!
You come on this forum and question how we choose to bring up our dogs,compare us to puppy farmers and the above and you accept our opinoins.
Doesn't seem like it to me,you are very judgemental, and ignorant.


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## charlie9009 (Nov 24, 2008)

michelle said:


> All i can say is i really pity all of your pets!!!At the end of the day you lock your so called loved pets in metal cages its an absolute disgrace!


 If you have a problem with this then I suggest you contact the RSPCA and send them to someone's house, I'm sure someone will volunteer as they are not cruel. I cannot believe that you are so stubborn that you cannot see that every person that uses them on here uses them responsibly and all the dogs like them! Can't you see that just because you don't like the look of them, it doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't make people using them nasty!


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

michelle said:


> Do you think it makes the whole thing sound better calling them crate they are a metal cage with limted space for dogs which is nasty and cruel!!!


Do you not read the stories about dogs being stolen from gardens?


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

she is spoiling for a fight as she clearly said we did not answer her questions when we clearly had. Why stop at a metal cage - why not just let your dogs run free - oh i get it - she is probably one of those down at the park that never has her dog on a lead either.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> if she didn't in the first place, she certainly is now :nono:


No I don't as it happens - I genuinely belive the OP started the thread in all innocence - I suggect you all get off her back and start again! As I explained - people who do not understand their uses could see them a cruel! 
DT


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

michelle said:


> Do you think it makes the whole thing sound better calling them crate they are a metal cage with limted space for dogs which is nasty and cruel!!!


dont you think having a limited SAFE space is better than having unlimited space with unlimited scope for injury or distress to the dog?

You're obviously not willing to accept our opinions and our perfectly good reasons for using crates.

For all you said about us not respecting your opinions, I think you need to take a serious look at yourself.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

i feel a "sticky" coming saying we cant discuss crates next....:nono: 

Just on the chewed house or destructive dog I just want to say that you can deal with SA without a crate, i did it...


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

I think this is a wind up........


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> Do you think it makes the whole thing sound better calling them crate they are a metal cage with limted space for dogs which is nasty and cruel!!!


Do you wear blinkers ?
Have you been into our homes ? 
Do you know what size crates we use ?

Honestly some people, :nono:


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

we should start a new thread- my dog has the abiility to make its mind up at all times and acts in a thoroughly responsible way at all times. It has a right to be told what not to do......


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

michelle said:


> What rude members there is on here!i find it funny how the members been very diffensive are the ones using wire cages!!At least i know my dogs are never locked in cages and are happy healthy dogs!!To me using cages is no better than puppy farming!!its a disgrace leaving any dog in a cage for any amount of time.I would never lock my children in a room which to me is exactly what your doing.
> Goodbye forum!


*Now i'm wondering why you are still here.Trouble comes to mind.:thumbdown:*


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## reddogsX3 (May 18, 2008)

many dog owners like to take their dogs camping and so if a dog is happy to be crated overnight normally then you can take their bed with you which is less stressfull for a dog than trying to sleep somewhere strange.


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

As I stated earlier I don't like crates and I don't use them. My dogs have free run of my house and an extreamly secure garden (8 foot stone walls at the back of the house). BUT it's extreamly closed minded to say it's cruel to use crates, sometimes it's the only solution. Personally I'd never leave a dog in a locked crate but that's because my dogs are fine being left and would be distressed locked in a small area but I don't see why you are being so aggressive with your views. Life would be boring if we all agreed but there is no need to call people 'cruel'? 

I have 9 rescue dogs in kennels right now waiting for new homes, they are walked twice a day but otherwise they are 'locked in cages'...am I being cruel? Should I have them PTS because I can't offer them an alternative right now?


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> No I don't as it happens - I genuinely belive the OP started the thread in all innocence - I suggect you all get off her back and start again! As I explained - people who do not understand their uses could see them a cruel!
> DT


But when this person is suggesting that we are cruel to our animals, don't you think we have perfectly good reasons to retaliate and explain that they are not cruel? She's clearly taking no notice of what we've been saying and therefore I have lost all respect for her.

And I am usually the one to try and stop people arguing.


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Now i'm wondering why you are still here.Trouble comes to mind.:thumbdown:*


There's no need to drag me into this Jan


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Now i'm wondering why you are still here.Trouble comes to mind.:thumbdown:*


It has to be a wind up.....somebody comes new onto a forum, starts a thread which enables them to TELL (not just imply) dog lovers they are mistreating their dogs....has to be a wind up.....


----------



## charlie9009 (Nov 24, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> No I don't as it happens - I genuinely belive the OP started the thread in all innocence - I suggect you all get off her back and start again! As I explained - people who do not understand their uses could see them a cruel!
> DT


 I'm sorry but I would have to disagree with you. The opening post may have been started in innocence. People have then explianed a bit about them, and said about various reasons they use them for, and still she comes on saying people that use them are nasty and it's cruel. Never has she said that she can understand why people use them, but she never will!


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

i think we should knock the thread on the head as it is going round in circles and at the end of the day to say someone is cruel is not far off of slander.

muppet warning
muppet warning
do not approach or if you do with care!!!


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> There's no need to drag me into this Jan


*
pmsl time you changes your name to "saint sue"...:aureola:*


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

I am still waiting for an answer to my original question.

Do you place your children in a cot?

It's fairly simple but one that you appear to be side stepping.

The crate or cage is constructed as it is to ensure that the dog is safe and cannot harm itself.

I also would like to know why you think YOU are right and WE are all wrong .

You appear to be in a minority here I notice no one has jumped to your defence. Why are there not scores of other forum members saying you are right. Do you really think this forum is full of cruel evil people.

I have never used the ignore button on here but i feel i am about to make an exception.

Jog on Billy no mates.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> But when this person is suggesting that we are cruel to our animals, don't you think we have perfectly good reasons to retaliate and explain that they are not cruel? She's clearly taking no notice of what we've been saying and therefore I have lost all respect for her.
> 
> And I am usually the one to try and stop people arguing.


I actually think that if the poster believes it is cruel to keep dogs in crates then that is her right!

It is up to us to convince her otherwise!

DT


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

It probably is a windup, and this thread will probably be closed. Hopefully sooner rather than later


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I actually think that if the poster believes it is cruel to keep dogs in crates then that is her right!
> 
> It is up to us to convince her otherwise!
> 
> DT


its one thing to think it and another to say it directly.

You should say 'i think it is cruel' and not 'YOU ARE BEING CRUEL'


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

rainy said:


> Jog on Billy no mates.


PMSL

blob


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I actually think that if the poster believes it is cruel to keep dogs in crates then that is her right!
> 
> It is up to us to convince her otherwise!
> 
> DT


I agree DT but go back and the thread properly,I certainly object to been put on par with a Puppy Farmer,is that the best the OP can come up with ?

The OP has been rude, and extremely judgemental :incazzato:


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I actually think that if the poster believes it is cruel to keep dogs in crates then that is her right!
> 
> It is up to us to convince her otherwise!
> 
> DT


I don't have to justify myself to anyone.

DT you know better than anyone it's not what you say it's how you say it. She is being deliberatey inflammatory and downright rude.

I will not have ANYONE describe me as being no better than a puppy farmer, would you?

I think Shazach may be right. WIND UP.


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I actually think that if the poster believes it is cruel to keep dogs in crates then that is her right!


Absolutely but it's very unfriendly to join a forum and accuse other members of being cruel just because they don't agree with something.


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

charlie9009 said:


> I'm sorry but I would have to disagree with you. The opening post may have been started in innocence. People have then explianed a bit about them, and said about various reasons they use them for, and still she comes on saying people that use them are nasty and it's cruel. Never has she said that she can understand why people use them, but she never will!


Six of one half a dozen of the other - people have said nasty things to her as well! it cuts both ways!

You catch bee's with hoeny not with vinigar!


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

rainy said:


> I don't have to justify myself to anyone.
> 
> DT you know better than anyone it's not what you say it's how you say it. She is being deliberatey inflammatory and downright rude.
> 
> ...


Of course I am :ciappa:
Read it again, the op has told people they are cruel to there animals and compared them to puppy farmers and threatened to leave and yet is still on line watching the furor.
If its not a wind up then


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Six of one half a dozen of the other - people have said nasty things to her as well! it cuts both ways!
> 
> You catch bee's with hoeny not with vinigar!


Would you allow someone to call your methods "no better than puppy farming" NO WAY WOULD YOU 

You would bite so hard they wouldn't sit for a week.


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

hello,
could you tell us why the rspca sell these mean things?
the pdsa recommend them? 

hhhmmm?????


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Shazach said:


> Of course I am :ciappa:
> Read it again, the op has told people they are cruel to there animals and compared them to puppy farmers and threatened to leave and yet is still on line watching the furor.
> If its not a wind up then


It's very entertaining i can see why people do it.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I actually think that if the poster believes it is cruel to keep dogs in crates then that is her right!
> 
> It is up to us to convince her otherwise!
> 
> DT


*I was very polite to the op, but i object to be called cruel,or treating my dogs like a puppy farmer.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I personally dont like crates, i dont think they are cruel if they are used responsibly, i would never say they dont work for toilet training, they just didnt work for me.

Ive has 3 dogs the first 2 very close in age, we got our pup now 9mths and our other is 8 so i got a crate to basically give him some space when she got a bit much, i would put her in for some time out. At night time the other 2 after we had gone to bed we would hear them playing before they settled doen and that was fine but i knew if the pup had done that he wouldnt have been happy as he's at the stage where bed time is bed time.

When i say i dont like crates thats proberbly wrong, what i should say is i didnt like putting her in it, i felt that i was sometimes relying on the crate a bit too much rather than actually disciplining hera bit more, thats why i took her out of it early,and shes fine.

I have afriend who has all her 3 in a crate she is a childminder and although her dogs are great with kids they go in a some point in the day for their own sanity as the kids sometime wont leave them alone to sleep.They are very happy dogs and noway effected by being crated at some point in the day


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Shazach said:


> Of course I am :ciappa:
> Read it again, the op has told people they are cruel to there animals and compared them to puppy farmers and threatened to leave and yet is still on line watching the furor.
> If its not a wind up then


good point - she seems to have gone very quiet and stopped the name calling since we've all jumped in - surely if she was that serious she'd carry on 'defending' her opinion, which of course we should all totally respect. (LOL)


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I personally dont like crates, i dont think they are cruel if they are used responsibly, i would never say they dont work for toilet training, they just didnt work for me.
> 
> Ive has 3 dogs the first 2 very close in age, we got our pup now 9mths and our other is 8 so i got a crate to basically give him some space when she got a bit much, i would put her in for some time out. At night time the other 2 after we had gone to bed we would hear them playing before they settled doen and that was fine but i knew if the pup had done that he wouldnt have been happy as he's at the stage where bed time is bed time.
> 
> ...


I too am a childminder and when Oscar was a tiny pup he really needed his own retreat from the children constantly waking him up, you really can't stop 2 year olds from being 2 year olds, the crate was a godsend.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Shazach said:


> Of course I am :ciappa:
> Read it again, the op has told people they are cruel to there animals and compared them to puppy farmers and threatened to leave and yet is still on line watching the furor.
> If its not a wind up then


I'll be honest with you Shaz - I have not read every single post word for word!!! which is why we need RONA - all it looks like to me was someone opening a thread saying that they consider crates to be cruel, next minute things get heated - people say things they don't mean - then the threads locked!

She should not compare us to puppy farmers NO - but she obviously does feel strongly that crates are cruel!

I'll put it down to the sun today!!!!

lol
DT

To sum it up - CRATES - are NOT cruel - if anyone else thinks otherwise take the time to read everyones input on these THEN form an opinion on facts


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

its near enough the equivalent of saying its abuse - you wouldn't accuse someone of that unless it was virtually concrete. I am NOT AMUSED


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> I personally dont like crates, i dont think they are cruel if they are used responsibly, i would never say they dont work for toilet training, they just didnt work for me.
> 
> Ive has 3 dogs the first 2 very close in age, we got our pup now 9mths and our other is 8 so i got a crate to basically give him some space when she got a bit much, i would put her in for some time out. At night time the other 2 after we had gone to bed we would hear them playing before they settled doen and that was fine but i knew if the pup had done that he wouldnt have been happy as he's at the stage where bed time is bed time.
> 
> ...


^^^^ 
A good example of how you can put across your opinion without being offensive.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

What a sad lot some of you really are.You really need to get a life!!Instead of living on here go let your dogs out of their cages and let them have FREEDOM.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> pmsl time you changes your name to "saint sue"...:aureola:*


D don't get used to it , it could all change in the bat of an eyelid!


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

WHY ARE WE SAD? We have thriving well bahaved dogs, we have no regrets and we all agree - we aren't looking to make changes.

we are sad to keep up your entertainment!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

michelle said:


> What a sad lot some of you really are.You really need to get a life!!Instead of living on here go let your dogs out of their cages and let them have FREEDOM.


Are you a vegan or vegetarian?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> I am NOT AMUSED


Go and sit on a feather then - maybe it will make you smile


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

i was thinking a hippy!! LOL's


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> What a sad lot some of you really are.You really need to get a life!!Instead of living on here go let your dogs out of their cages and let them have FREEDOM.


Good example of a member giving an opinion,

Here you are Michelle 









Now go play nicely elsewhere,there's a good girl


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## charlie9009 (Nov 24, 2008)

michelle said:


> What a sad lot some of you really are.You really need to get a life!!Instead of living on here go let your dogs out of their cages and let them have FREEDOM.


 Lol, deffinatly a wind up. It's all starting to quite down so they've gotta stir it up again.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> i was thinking a hippy!! LOL's


peace man :thumbsup: :cornut:


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

peace man!:thumbup:


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> What a sad lot some of you really are.You really need to get a life!!Instead of living on here go let your dogs out of their cages and let them have FREEDOM.


That's sooooo funny did it take you all that time to think that one up.

You have not read a thing have you. We are at home therefore our dogs ARE out of their cages. Mine is playing in the paddling pool with the kids, or is that cruel too in your world 

And if we are discussing getting lives YOU started this thread so that makes you one of us saddos too. You have obviously been following it all day whereas i have been out enjoying the sunshine in the park with my dog.


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

To be honest I don't give a diddly squat. I used a crate for Lily when she was a puppy. She was comfy, and safe. She has since outgrown it so has a big girls bed.

If the OP thinks its cruel etc then that is down to her - and remember sticks and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt ya.

And has someone traded in DT? She seems to have gone holier than thou.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

michelle said:


> What a sad lot some of you really are.You really need to get a life!!Instead of living on here go let your dogs out of their cages and let them have FREEDOM.


no my dog doesnt get let out of his crate, in fact - I have a Great Dane puppy which I intend on keeping in my Yorkshire Terrier's crate so that he grows up in a cube shape, I think i'll be really fashionable


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

dt has jumped the fence!

peace man!:scared:


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> What a sad lot some of you really are.You really need to get a life!!Instead of living on here go let your dogs out of their cages and let them have FREEDOM.


having a bad hair day are we?


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> And has someone traded in DT? She seems to have gone holier than thou.


I know...I'm scared, nothing is as it should be. :scared:


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> no my dog doesnt get let out of his crate, in fact - I have a Great Dane puppy which I intend on keeping in my Yorkshire Terrier's crate so that he grows up in a cube shape, I think i'll be really fashionable


can i put my jack in your great dane cage then - swapsies!

peace man!!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> What a sad lot some of you really are.You really need to get a life!!Instead of living on here go let your dogs out of their cages and let them have FREEDOM.


Michelle,
I respect what you have said with relation to crates being cruel, you have obviously had little experience with them, They are not cruel if correctly used, I have (today) been hit on the head with a brick, and because of this my puddled brain saw a nicer side to people - hence me agreeing with you, the post above however, was very unnecessary and I am saying no more on the matter, But maybe you should read the positives of crate training
regrds
DT


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## charlie9009 (Nov 24, 2008)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> no my dog doesnt get let out of his crate, in fact - I have a Great Dane puppy which I intend on keeping in my Yorkshire Terrier's crate so that he grows up in a cube shape, I think i'll be really fashionable


:thumbup: I definatly see that catching on!! :lol: :lol:


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> can i put my jack in your great dane cage then - swapsies!
> 
> peace man!!


yes of course, i'll throw in a free padlock for it if you want


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> To be honest I don't give a diddly squat. I used a crate for Lily when she was a puppy. She was comfy, and safe. She has since outgrown it so has a big girls bed.
> 
> If the OP thinks its cruel etc then that is down to her - and remember sticks and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt ya.
> 
> And has someone traded in DT? She seems to have gone holier than thou.


Was just thinking the same. I think we have an imposter 



Portia Elizabeth said:


> no my dog doesnt get let out of his crate, in fact - I have a Great Dane puppy which I intend on keeping in my Yorkshire Terrier's crate so that he grows up in a cube shape, I think i'll be really fashionable


Made me spit my tea


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

Lily's Mum said:


> To be honest I don't give a diddly squat. I used a crate for Lily when she was a puppy. She was comfy, and safe. She has since outgrown it so has a big girls bed.
> 
> If the OP thinks its cruel etc then that is down to her - and remember sticks and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt ya.
> 
> And has someone traded in DT? She seems to have gone holier than thou.


I think Marks told her he'll only change her name if shes good for a week!! Maybe we should see how much it takes to provoke her...:lol::devil::devil::lol:


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Lets all open our homes and allow the animals to run free. 

Id actually quite like to see a pack of chihuahus hunting down large game.


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> Lets all open our homes and allow the animals to run free.
> 
> Id actually quite like to see a pack of chihuahus hunting down large game.


PMSL......


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

Pic of Lily and her crate - note she is not locked in it. Does she look abused?


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Lily's Mum said:


> Pic of Lily and her crate - note she is not locked in it. Does she look abused?


omg u sik person im reportin u 2 da rspca innit


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## hobo99 (Aug 18, 2008)

I think the OP should have noticed that the people on this forum are dog lovers not abusers , which is why we are on this forum , she should take the time to read through some of the other posts and she would see the care and concern we show for our pets :thumbup: , and would maybe see why people are a bit annoyed and upset. suz


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

she's beautiful!! :thumbup:


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Don't use 'em for my dogs.....but the kids are another matter....maaawwwwhhhaaaa!!:devil::devil:ut:


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

And here she is in her big girls bed.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

I actually went of crates myself when my goldfish kept dying! and I thought I was being kind to em - giving em the extra space like


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

JSR said:


> Don't use 'em for my dogs.....but the kids are another matter....maaawwwwhhhaaaa!!:devil::devil:ut:


I hope you don't leave them in there for more than 4 hours.   Kids only have small bladders and need to use the toilet frequently!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I wonder what the Op's opinion is of dog lead? Dont they restrict your dogs freedom?


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

did you know i have a steel reinforced dog lead in my garden which i use late at night or early in the morning for millie as she is prone to digging out of the garden- it 18 ft long - is that cruel? I can tell you its no joke as it takes 3 hours to get her back when she sniffs freedom!!


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I actually went of crates myself when my goldfish kept dying! and I thought I was being kind to em - giving em the extra space like


why did it die? did you not let it out to exercise often enough??????????????   god dt i thought you were a responsible fish owner


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

JSR said:


> Don't use 'em for my dogs.....but the kids are another matter....maaawwwwhhhaaaa!!:devil::devil:ut:


Good that you've left the beer close to hand in case she get's thirsty..:lol::biggrin::lol:


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

they have squuzed to children in - not just one!!! thats really pushing it.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> why did it die? did you not let it out to exercise often enough??????????????


Bl**dy thing kept slipping it's collar


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Shazach said:


> Good that you've left the beer close to hand in case she get's thirsty..:lol::biggrin::lol:


Oh yeah..keeps them quiet when they've had a drink!!


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

just a thought , 
if crates/cages are cruel  
does that also mean that dog guards in cars are also cruel because we are confining them to the back of the car , xx

or is that for another thread


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Shazach said:


> I think Marks told her he'll only change her name if shes good for a week!! Maybe we should see how much it takes to provoke her...:lol::devil::devil::lol:


I am definately up for that 



Nonnie said:


> Lets all open our homes and allow the animals to run free.
> 
> Id actually quite like to see a pack of chihuahus hunting down large game.


PMSL



Lily's Mum said:


> Pic of Lily and her crate - note she is not locked in it. Does she look abused?


I WANT ONE !!!!

She looks gorgeous.

If you think crating a dog is cruel what about this


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

my husband and i can fit in the one in the garage with room for manouvre too!!!


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Bl**dy thing kept slipping it's collar


i found a prong collar worked great for mine, once its got into those scales theres no chance of it escaping muahahahahaha :devil:


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

kira99 said:


> just a thought ,
> if crates/cages are cruel
> does that also mean that dog guards in cars are also cruel because we are confining them to the back of the car , xx
> 
> or is that for another thread


everyone knows you shouldn't use them - a lead attatched to the back of the car is the way forward! It restrains them AND exercises them


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

rainy said:


> I too am a childminder and when Oscar was a tiny pup he really needed his own retreat from the children constantly waking him up, you really can't stop 2 year olds from being 2 year olds, the crate was a godsend.


As I said i didnt like using the crate wasnt anything to do with the fact i thought it was cruel and molly was perfectly happy in it, it was me that thought i wasnt giving her the attention the others had had but it was under different circumstances. I wouldnt call anyone for using them as i know too many people that wouldnt be without them and some dogs that wouldnt be without one ime sure, and they are perfectly happy well adjusted dogs.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> i found a prong collar worked great for mine, once its got into those scales theres no chance of it escaping muahahahahaha :devil:


Well it was actually the choke chain that did the initial damage! Then the EC just finished it off!
DT
Should have known better then mixing electricity with water I guess


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## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

Well wind up or not, i think we're all having the last laugh!:ihih::ihih:


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## Yogi B (Dec 24, 2008)

As one who raises terriers, ie 11 Miniature Pinschers in addition to 2 IG's, 3 Papillons and 1 German Pinscher I use them. My dogs eat in their crates and majority cannot wait to go in for the evening and be covered up. Leaving them to run the house when I am gone even for a short while would be an open invitation to destruction. I never use a crate as a means of discipline which obviously helps. They see their crates as their private sanctuary and many times during the day if I cannot find one or two or three, I only need to check their crates and find them in there napping. In some breeds, crate training is highly recommended, terriers being one of them. It has done nothing to alter or effect their natural instincts or energy. But it does give me peace of mind when I am away.


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> i found a prong collar worked great for mine, once its got into those scales theres no chance of it escaping muahahahahaha :devil:


princess portia - you are showing your true colours!!! Te he!!  :devil:


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

kira99 said:


> just a thought ,
> if crates/cages are cruel
> does that also mean that dog guards in cars are also cruel because we are confining them to the back of the car , xx
> 
> or is that for another thread





Portia Elizabeth said:


> everyone knows you shouldn't use them - a lead attatched to the back of the car is the way forward! It restrains them AND exercises them


oooops , im in deep sh## then cos my staffy is in a crate/cage and also behind a dog guard , xx


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> princess portia - you are showing your true colours!!! Te he!!  :devil:


Reckon she's passed her initiation!


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well it was actually the choke chain that did the initial damage! Then the EC just finished it off!
> DT
> Should have known better then mixing electricity with water I guess


I thought that was good for them - I heard it gave them a bit of a boost 



Shazach said:


> Well wind up or not, i think we're all having the last laugh!:ihih::ihih:


LOL totally.....and I love how the OP has sloped away now we've stopped pandering to her pathetic comments


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well it was actually the choke chain that did the initial damage! Then the EC just finished it off!
> DT
> Should have known better then mixing electricity with water I guess


It must have made his fins stand on end.


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Shazach said:


> Good that you've left the beer close to hand in case she get's thirsty..:lol::biggrin::lol:


PMSL. Spat tea AGAIN


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Reckon she's passed her initiation!





Georges Mum said:


> princess portia - you are showing your true colours!!! Te he!!  :devil:


it's you lot.....you're such a good influence on me!

or should that be a bad one 

hmmm


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> I thought that was good for them - I heard it gave them a bit of a boost
> 
> LOL totally.....and I love how the OP has sloped away now we've stopped pandering to her pathetic comments


you slipped- she'll be back!!


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

rainy said:


> PMSL. Spat tea AGAIN


LOL there's not gonna be much of that brew left soon :lol:


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

wehave gone off thread - should transfer to idle chat...


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> you slipped- she'll be back!!


I agree,she is watching this thread


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> you slipped- she'll be back!!


oh god......then she'll know the truth about our goldfish abusing natures  quick.....pretend to be responsible!!!

actually.... ABORT THREAD ABORT THREAD


----------



## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> Morning all,
> again perfect if the dog is poorly


Why in your opinion is a crate okay if the dog is poorly but cruel, puppy farmerish if used other wise.

Just curious.


----------



## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I agree,she is watching this thread


Oscar cannot watch this thread because he's locked in his cage.     He's been there for 3 weeks now, I should probably consider letting him out, or least dropping a biscuit through the bars!


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

ooooh noooooo i thought this one was wrapped up! :mad2:


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

i have a funny idea this is gonna get a padlock soon - never mnd locking the cage.


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Sophiex said:


> Oscar cannot watch this thread because he's locked in his cage.     He's been there for 3 weeks now, I should probably consider letting him out, or least dropping a biscuit through the bars!


LOL,


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Sophiex said:


> Oscar cannot watch this thread because he's locked in his cage.     He's been there for 3 weeks now, I should probably consider letting him out, or least dropping a biscuit through the bars!


Yes definately feed him or he may get thin enough to escape


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Sophiex said:


> Oscar cannot watch this thread because he's locked in his cage.     He's been there for 3 weeks now, I should probably consider letting him out, or least dropping a biscuit through the bars!


but its only a dog, why feed it


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

did you know you can buy water bowls to screw inside so if you want to go on holiday you can do that. It works for about two or three days i think


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

why is Georges mum getting angry?


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> did you know you can buy water bowls to screw inside so if you want to go on holiday you can do that. It works for about two or three days i think


so if you buy more bowls will it last longer

that's great......who needs boarding kennels!!!


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

i'm not but i am slightly worried wewill be closed for repair soon.


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> so if you buy more bowls will it last longer
> 
> that's great......who needs boarding kennels!!!


you got it! I can also squeeze my three into one crate too. saves 18 quid a night! but it might get pooey. We could use nappies maybe.


----------



## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

we aint doing nowt wrong.


----------



## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> did you know you can buy water bowls to screw inside so if you want to go on holiday you can do that. It works for about two or three days i think


yeah the trouble with them though is you are supposed to put water in them  and i cba to do that mine just have an empty bowl , it also saves it getting spilt when they are scratting at the bars trying to get out , lol


----------



## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Georges Mum said:


> did you know you can buy water bowls to screw inside so if you want to go on holiday you can do that. It works for about two or three days i think


Can you do the same with your kids?


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> so if you buy more bowls will it last longer
> 
> that's great......who needs boarding kennels!!!


Fab,
But what about food,urrrmmm,I got it just put a large 15kilo bag of food in there too,self service


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> you got it! I can also squeeze my three into one crate too. saves 18 quid a night! but it might get pooey. We could use nappies maybe.


thats brill, saved me a couple of hundred quids spending money for my month in the bahamas!!!


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

oh yes and i leave the tv on for them to watch through the bars. They like to watch national geographic - roaming free through the wilderness.:001_tt2:


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Sophiex said:


> Can you do the same with your kids?


When it comes to the kids i prefer to lock myself in the crate with a large bottle of something chilled and let them trash the house 

Is it too early for a drink i am eyeing the fridge as i type (i am not working today BTW incase anyone was going to report me for drinking on duty )


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Fab,
> But what about food,urrrmmm,I got it just put a large 15kilo bag of food in there too,self service


aww you're so kind 

i just leave a phone in the crate with a few takeaway menus, they can order their bl**dy own


----------



## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

rainy said:


> When it comes to the kids i prefer to lock myself in the crate with a large bottle of something chilled and let them trash the house


Isn't your little one only 2? I think it's disgraceful that people let kids run around unsupervised before they are *at least *3 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Georges Mum said:


> oh yes and i leave the tv on for them to watch through the bars. They like to watch national geographic - roaming free through the wilderness.:001_tt2:


That's really thoughtful of you.  Oscar is only allowed to watch TV every other Thursday.


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

oh i think children need as much freedom as possible - here they run free in the road in their nappy - amazing what some fresh air does for these kids - they mix with 15 year olds! they teach them to shin up lamp posts, and drop litter - how fab!


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

omg this thread is killing me :lol: :lol:

but its damn educational - i've gained lots of brilliant advice for my holiday and i've learned some parenting skills


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Lets hope your parenting skills are much better than your animal skills!! though not holding out they are!!


----------



## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

Georges Mum said:


> oh i think children need as much freedom as possible - here they run free in the road in their nappy - amazing what some fresh air does for these kids - they mix with 15 year olds! they teach them to shin up lamp posts, and drop litter - how fab!


Well, as long as you're not letting them drink alcohol.......


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

told you...


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

Sophiex said:


> Well, as long as you're not letting them drink alcohol.......


hey these aren't mine - this is happening in reality to my neighbors kids!


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> Lets hope your parenting skills are much better than your animal skills!! though not holding out they are!!


You still here ??


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

michelle said:


> Lets hope your parenting skills are much better than your animal skills!! though not holding out they are!!


hey, on here we keep our kids crated with our animals - two seperate sets of skills is just confusing 

you wouldnt believe how much time it saves, too


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

yeah still here!!not sure you have any skills what so ever i would let you in my garden to pick the dog sh*t up never mind near my dogs!!


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> yeah still here!!not sure you have any skills what so ever i would let you in my garden to pick the dog sh*t up never mind near my dogs!!


How very nice for you


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

michelle said:


> yeah still here!!not sure you have any skills what so ever i would let you in my garden to pick the dog sh*t up never mind near my dogs!!


have you not trained yiours to poo on command on walks like us?


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

michelle said:


> yeah still here!!not sure you have any skills what so ever i would let you in my garden to pick the dog sh*t up never mind near my dogs!!


you let them poo in the garden? mine just crap in the crate, it gives them an extra layer of bedding, its so warm


----------



## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> yeah still here!!not sure you have any skills what so ever i would let you in my garden to pick the dog sh*t up never mind near my dogs!!


hey Michelle, chill out! Whats up? Why are you so aggressive? You don't like or agree with crates but that dont make them wrong does it?

Just take a chill pill and a big slug of vodka,, oh and have a few **** too.

Chill pill.


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

michelle said:


> yeah still here!!not sure you have any skills what so ever i would let you in my garden to pick the dog sh*t up never mind near my dogs!!


Michelle
Why don't you take a look around the forum you will see that many of these people you are slagging off are genuine animal lovers, none of them would do anything cruel to a dog or any other animal, maybe when you've done that you can come back and make a fresh start!

I have tried to stand with you to some degree on this one - but now I am getting seriously p*ssed off with your attitude!
DT


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> you let them poo in the garden? mine just crap in the crate, it gives them an extra layer of bedding, its so warm


You are really on form today


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

do you know i believe ferrets are kept in cages too.

or does anyone let the run free?


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

rainy said:


> You are really on form today


LOL i've been off college for 2 weeks, the effects are starting to show :crazy:


----------



## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

waiting for the next one liner


----------



## Dylan & Daisy (Feb 4, 2009)

michelle said:


> What a sad lot some of you really are.You really need to get a life!!Instead of living on here go let your dogs out of their cages and let them have FREEDOM.


Strangely you keep coming back too, maybe you should take your own advice


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

do they make cages for ponies?


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Michelle
> Why don't you take a look around the forum you will see that many of these people you are slagging off are genuine animal lovers, none of them would do anything cruel to a dog or any other animal, maybe when you've done that you can come back and make a fresh start!
> 
> I have tried to stand with you to some degree on this one - but now I am getting seriously p*ssed off with your attitude!
> DT


I wouldn't worry DT i think we have all let the OP know what we think of her attitude and we are now just a bunch of forum mates having a good laugh. Makes the thread worthwhile IMO.

As i said Billy no mates can jog on if she don't like it


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Perhaps the OP thinks crates are cruel because maybe someone locked her in one with a gag and lost the key........Can you blame them LOL


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> do they make cages for ponies?


Yes Georges Mum it's called a stable


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

do they have locks?


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> Perhaps the OP thinks crates are cruel because maybe someone locked her in one with a gag and lost the key........Can you blame them LOL


PMSL I have run out of rep on this thread


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Michelle....if you ring the RSPCA up..they will advise you start crate training your puppy as early as 8 weeks old (FACT)
If you ask your vet, he will tell you the same thing. 

Im sure no one on here uses them 24/7 

Sam


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

aww guys im going to have to leave this oh-so-informative thread for a while

it's time to go to dog training


this week we're going to teach our dogs how to cook cos we're all sick of them expecting us to feed them

then we'll finish by giving them all a good beating

bye for now..... i'll be back to catch up later


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

i'll blob her for you!


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> aww guys im going to have to leave this oh-so-informative thread for a while
> 
> it's time to go to dog training
> 
> ...


hey see you lata portia lady!


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> aww guys im going to have to leave this oh-so-informative thread for a while
> 
> it's time to go to dog training
> 
> ...


Have fun!!!


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> aww guys im going to have to leave this oh-so-informative thread for a while
> 
> it's time to go to dog training
> 
> ...


See ya later xx


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Can the original poster tell me where she keeps the 2 rescue ferrets it mentions on her profile ?


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

they run free out of the dog flap! but i think they might be able to get out of the garden as they climb???


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

rainy said:


> Can the original poster tell me where she keeps the 2 rescue ferrets it mentions on her profile ?


They have the free run of the house,garden, oh and they can use the dog flap


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## ally (Feb 5, 2009)

Our Ruby is the first dog we have ever crated in 45+ years and is the best dog we've had. She went in it from day one, at night and when we went out; it became her sanctuary space where she felt safe and she could go in and out when she wanted to the rest of the time as we left the door open. She had one in the lounge and the same type in the car until she grew too big to fit in with movement space. I would highly recommend the crates and would use them again without a doubt!


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Okay, I have only read the last two pages of this topic so here is my two penneth.

Personally I find them extremely uncomfortable and besides, there isn't enough room for Luika and me 

He has now placed a sign above his saying 'Do not disturb'

Sorry, but I'm a silly mood today, having just got my new little kitten whom I am bringing home in two weeks time


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

ally said:


> Our Ruby is the first dog we have ever crated in 45+ years and is the best dog we've had. She went in it from day one, at night and when we went out; it became her sanctuary space where she felt safe and she could go in and out when she wanted to the rest of the time as we left the door open. She had one in the lounge and the same type in the car until she grew too big to fit in with movement space. I would highly recommend the crates and would use them again without a doubt!


sshh - dont tell them we paid you to say that!

what - you said that off your own back!!! OMG!!!


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

Nina said:


> Okay, I have only read the last two pages of this topic so here is my two penneth.
> 
> Personally I find them extremely uncomfortable and besides, there isn't enough room for Luika and me
> 
> ...


oh how exciting we want pics!!!


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Nina said:


> Okay, I have only read the last two pages of this topic so here is my two penneth.
> 
> Personally I find them extremely uncomfortable and besides, there isn't enough room for Luika and me
> 
> ...


Aww,Nina fab news,
Are you going to be crate training your new addition or are they going to share


----------



## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

rainy said:


> Can the original poster tell me where she keeps the 2 rescue ferrets it mentions on her profile ?





sallyanne said:


> They have the free run of the house,garden, oh and they can use the dog flap


same for the pony she is getting , its a very large dog flap


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

Just gonna let the rug rats out of their cage and bath them. May more fun and joviality begin later.


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

hope so - in a really silly mood!!


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> hope so - in a really silly mood!!


Well I reckon you've all bin on the waccy baccy!
Either that or as I said on the other thread
You've all bin in the sun without yer bonnets!

DT


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well I reckon you've all bin on the waccy baccy!
> Either that or as I said on the other thread
> You've all bin in the sun without yer bonnets!
> 
> DT


in the nod - we are naturists here.


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

are u all in the buff - mind ur fluff don't get caught in the metal mesh


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

I have never had a crate before as like some others, I was not sure I liked the idea of keeping a dog in a cage. However, after reading about them and asking for advice and LISTENING to the advice given, I decided to get a crate when we got our puppy as I thought it would be nice for her to have some of her own space. 

I can thoroughly recommend them for toilet training as it was the ONLY reason she would willingly use the crate! Needless to say it is languishing in the shed 

I just think I was a bit soft and she prefered to sleep on us or the settee


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

Lily's Mum said:


> are u all in the buff - mind ur fluff don't get caught in the metal mesh


must admit the metal is cold on my back.


----------



## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

Georges Mum said:


> must admit the metal is cold on my back.


Will you have a square pattern on your bum as well?!?:biggrin:


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Georges Mum said:


> oh how exciting we want pics!!!


Janice has posted a lovely pic of him for me on the Cat Chat section under 'Great news'. He is so cute


----------



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

sallyanne said:


> Aww,Nina fab news,
> Are you going to be crate training your new addition or are they going to share


He is very tiny Sallyanne, just 6 weeks old, so I'm not quite sure if we should get him a little crate of his own  May have to ask a few questions on kittens in the cat thread.


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

lmao thankyou everyone on this thread! just caught up and been chuckling away to myself , i would be green blobbing you all but apparently have run out


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

aw man, how did i miss this totally epic thread??


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

My dogs are crated at night and when there is no one in during the day My OH is not working at the moment so there is usually some one at home during the day. 

At the moment I have a bitch in season she is to be mated to a champion whippet who is coming over from Ireland in the next week. Ther is no way I want my stud dogs around her so without a crate I would have to send her to others. My boys are not bothered as they know they can not get to her. She is not crated all the time she too has time when she has the run of the house with only the other bitches.

We once took all bar 1 crate down and all of the dogs tried to get inside that 1 crate. It is their space and they know they are safe. My 2 greyhounds I leave in the garden if I'm in and leave the door open but if I go to them they are always asleep in their crate even though they have the frredom to go outside.

Michelle I don't know what breeds of dog you have but I have whippets and greyhounds and you certainly do not leave these breeds alone in the garden when there is no one in the house. Whether they can get inside or not. I myself have posted in the missing and stolen dogs on more than 1 occasion whippets that have been stolen from peoples gardens. My friends dogs are kenneled and not so long ago some one climbed her fence all 6ft and topped with barbed wire and set fire to her kennels whilst her dogs were in them. Fotunately she got up early as it was the morning she was travelling to crufts to show 2 dogs and she smelt the smoke.

My dogs may be crated for some periods during the day but I know they are safe.


----------



## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I forgot to add a man were I work had a doberman pup. He left it in his brand new kitchen whilst he and his partener were at work. The next day he asked were he could get a big crate from quickly the pup had eaten his new kitchen. He too originally said he thought crates were cruel and he wouldn't use one. He soon changed his tune.

I also know a person whose puppy strangled itself by catching its collar on the cupboard door handle they were only out for an hour. That dog would still be alive now if she had bee crated. My mum's whippet chewed through the power cable to the fridge one night. Luckily she survived .

Need I go on?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Buster is crated at night (door shut or he wont settle)... he obviously hates it, the second we say bedtime he dashes out for a wee then straight into his crate...if we dilly dally too much he groans til we shut the door, and cover him!

he has lots of bedding, and a few of his favourite comforting soft toys.
He sleeps at the base of the bed, and wakes us up when he wants out when we let him out for a wee then he goes back in with the door open til he decides its time for me to get up for his breakfast!


Its true, I am the devil in disguise, but dont tell.


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Savahl said:


> Buster is crated at night (door shut or he wont settle)... he obviously hates it, the second we say bedtime he dashes out for a wee then straight into his crate...if we dilly dally too much he groans til we shut the door, and cover him!
> 
> he has lots of bedding, and a few of his favourite comforting soft toys.
> 
> Its true, I am the devil in disguise, but dont tell.


Pure evil


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

:devil: :ihih:


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

Savahl, how do you live with yourself? Surprised you can sleep at night.:mad5:


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

I drink.....

Its hard being so evil... but i cope.

Observe! turn away in horror at my abused and neglected victim of a dog....










(The authorities will never catch me!! i have an awesome disguise to hide from them...)


----------



## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

I have never used a crate for my dog,but now wish i had as he is having to spend a long 6 weeks in one after an op for IOHC.He`s getting used to it but i wish i`d got him used to one around the house whne he was younger.
My old boss used them for her stud cockers at night to stop fighting,but they were alowed to roam together during the day,Whilst they were out of their crates you would often find 5 or 6 cockers crammed into 1 crate,door wide open,they loved the security of it.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Savahl said:


> I drink.....
> 
> Its hard being so evil... but i cope.
> 
> ...


PMSL. You nutter


----------



## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

Can I just say that this week I'm fed up of working for a living....so if anybody would like to neglect me by leaving me in a big crate with food, water and bedding for a few hours a day, I'd be up for it....

Any offers? (i'm house trained, don't bark, occasionally snap....)

Sh x


----------



## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Shazach said:


> Can I just say that this week I'm fed up of working for a living....so if anybody would like to neglect me by leaving me in a big crate with food, water and bedding for a few hours a day, I'd be up for it....
> 
> Any offers? (i'm house trained, don't bark, occasionally snap....)
> 
> Sh x


Would you be ok sharing with 2 greyhounds?


----------



## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

Freyja said:


> Would you be ok sharing with 2 greyhounds?


Even better! (can I have my own food though?)

Sh x


----------



## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Shazach said:


> Even better! (can I have my own food though?)
> 
> Sh x


noooo greyhound food all round in my house. Mind you William is partial to the odd bit of fish


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Shazach said:


> Even better! (can I have my own food though?)
> 
> Sh x


I wouldnt feed you greyhound food.... our crate comes with free raw diet!! all the bone, raw meat, veggie mulch, raw eggs and fish you could want! 
YUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


----------



## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

Savahl said:


> I wouldnt feed you greyhound food.... our crate comes with free raw diet!! all the bone, raw meat, veggie mulch, raw eggs and fish you could want!
> YUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


Maybe I'll go to work instead.......:biggrin:


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

you lot are crackers! have really had a laugh reading this!!!


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

It was fun, wasn't it :lol:

Thankyou michelle,leeds (or wherever it was she's from) for giving us such a funny evening :thumbup:


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

god its the middle of the night now - i noticed she dried up when rainy and started on about two ferrets and a pony.... 

a cage is a cage - metal or wood for that matter.....


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> god its the middle of the night now - i noticed she dried up when rainy and started on about two ferrets and a pony....
> 
> a cage is a cage - metal or wood for that matter.....


LOL yeah, and she wouldn't answer the child in a cot question hehehe

do you think she objects to living in a house, after all, it's only like a cage for humans


----------



## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> LOL yeah, and she wouldn't answer the child in a cot question hehehe
> 
> do you think she objects to living in a house, after all, it's only like a cage for humans


read her profile.....:frown2:


----------



## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

I have never used crates for any dogs i have had i personally dont like them, well you all had a good laugh, tonight, so as long as you get pleasure out of a debate i suppose thats all that matters , i think its everybody personal opinion on using crates , there never used to be such a thing when i first had puppies and they all did just as well then , i think for showing vets ect they are great but never felt the need to use them indoors.


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> read her profile.....:frown2:


hahaha i wonder what sort of palace her ferrets live in?

maybe shes planning on setting them free into the woods :thumbup1:


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

jeanie said:


> I have never used crates for any dogs i have had i personally dont like them, well you all had a good laugh, tonight, so as long as you get pleasure out of a debate i suppose thats all that matters , i think its everybody personal opinion on using crates , there never used to be such a thing when i first had puppies and they all did just as well then , i think for showing vets ect they are great but never felt the need to use them indoors.


Good points Jeanie! and my feelings exactly!


----------



## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> hahaha i wonder what sort of palace her ferrets live in?
> 
> maybe shes planning on setting them free into the woods :thumbup1:


sound's about rite to me. So am i bad then coz mine live out side?. they put themselves to bed every nite and yes they are locked in at nite, let out at 5.30 for the rest of the day oh what a bitch i am to my dog's. Don't tell them tho coz they love the live i give them:cornut:


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

Ain't it time we changed the record?


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## jeanie (Nov 11, 2007)

Totally agree with you dt, time it ended before it gets out of hand again.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I use a crate for Blaze as i have cats aslwell as him so when im out or not around he has to go in there not that he minds he cries if you dont let him in he loves it, I had no choice but i think they are a god send, he wouldnt be the dog he is today without one. Id never leave a dog with cats unsupervised not worth the risk


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

Miichelle you have made me very very angry.

I wasn't going to even post on this again but in all the posts i have read you are completely rude in my opinion. 

Let me make this very very clear - neither one of us who have crated or put our pups in puppy pens have left them in there for too long. And we don't keep them in there on a permanant basis only when we are not around. These crates/pens are not used as a prison. They are used to keep our babies in a safe CONTROLLED environment. They have lots of entertainment to keep them busy and they have a lot of water left with them too.

Ring the RSPCA if you are so concerned about how 'cruel' we all are here. 

if you feel you want to criticize all us loving dog owners, why don't you also criticize every parent alive in the world who put their babies in playpens when they are busy doing something, or who put their babies in a cot to sleep. These things have barriers/bars around them. Are we suggesting parents around the world are cruel?

do me a favour before i get really mad. Do some research on the matter before you come in on your high horse and accuse us of being cruel to our pets. Get a life, and grow up!


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

lol don't start any more arguments......take it up with the OP via a PM, we managed to calm it down after a bit, don't want it starting up again. Although you're absoloutely right to be angry at what was said  a lot of us were - but I think the OP is just saying it to wind us up, so don't give her what she wants


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

jeanie said:


> I have never used crates for any dogs i have had i personally dont like them, well you all had a good laugh, tonight, so as long as you get pleasure out of a debate i suppose thats all that matters , i think its everybody personal opinion on using crates , there never used to be such a thing when i first had puppies and they all did just as well then , i think for showing vets ect they are great but never felt the need to use them indoors.


the only time i have used 1 indoors is when i got my staffy, cos both dogs slept in the kitchen/diner and i didnt know anything about her i thought it was the best option, 
she loved being in there and when we opened the door in a morning it was sometimes 30 mins or more before she woke up and came out, at which point we used to close the door or she would have been straight back in there, we still use it in the car for her and the reason is that when we tried her without it she couldnt/wouldnt settle and got into a bit of a panic, 
i do think its a good idea for them to be used to crates/cages cos if they go to vets for an op they go in one there or if you have to restrict their movement it may also be nesesary (sp) to use one, xx


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

And if anyone had bothered to check the OP's posts prior to the 'cage' thread, she appeared to me to be a genuine member!

Yes !! I do agree she was out of order with some of the comments she made, but she were outnumbered 20/1 - and thats just how I would react when backed into a corner!

Would suspect we have lost her now! Can't say I blame her!

I'm saying NO more!
DT


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And if anyone had bothered to check the OP's posts prior to the 'cage' thread, she appeared to me to be a genuine member!
> 
> Yes !! I do agree she was out of order with some of the comments she made, but she were outnumbered 20/1 - and thats just how I would react when backed into a corner!
> 
> ...


I dont know what happend but im sorry if shes left.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And if anyone had bothered to check the OP's posts prior to the 'cage' thread, she appeared to me to be a genuine member!
> 
> Yes !! I do agree she was out of order with some of the comments she made, but she were outnumbered 20/1 - and thats just how I would react when backed into a corner!
> 
> ...


I agree it certainly looked like she was out numbered to me and i also hope she hasn't left the forum.


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

i dont think she will have left the forum, although some of her comments were uncalled for, xx


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

jeanie said:


> I have never used crates for any dogs i have had i personally dont like them, well you all had a good laugh, tonight, so as long as you get pleasure out of a debate i suppose thats all that matters , i think its everybody personal opinion on using crates , there never used to be such a thing when i first had puppies and they all did just as well then , i think for showing vets ect they are great but never felt the need to use them indoors.


Great post Jeanie and very well said.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

kira99 said:


> i dont think she will have left the forum, although some of her comments were uncalled for, xx


But not half as nasty as some of the comments some other people said. Seems to me there's some people on here who got some sick kick out of taking the p!ss out of her and throwing insults. Doesn't set the best example does it? xxx


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## MissD (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm not going to read through all this thread, only give my opinion on crates and hopefully the thread will get back on track.

I've just unexpectedly got a puppy and was very behind the times with the latest ways things are done. Last time I had a pup was 19 years ago and microchipping etc wasn't around then.

I must admit that my first reaction to a crate indoors was to be horrified. But then I realised from what people said that the dogs like somewhere safe to go. I would like to get one for pup but I don't think I could shut her in there.

I do tend to come home to a demolition derby when I've popped out so I've moved everything out of reach and leave her plenty of toys, a chew, Paddy lol and a Kong filled with treats. Even if she loved the crate (which would be good) I don't think I could lock her in unless I were to use the crate in the car for her own safety.

Can we all be friends on here?


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks for the lovely pm's and thanks to the much nicer people on here.Sadly i have to say this forum has way too nasty members on here its very sad as i have friends who wanted to look into rehoming pets/and fostering i will now advise them not to join the forum i think any new members reading this thread would simply log out and never return which is down to few certain members!!The things that members have said on here are a disgrace to the forum.I think if you actually look at my first posts i actually enquired about fostering dogs on death row so im far from irresponsible all our pets have the best life possible.I have spent vasts amount of money(which i work hard for)on securing my garden for my dogs.I was given abuse yesterday as my dogs are free to come in the house and in the garden as they please.I think you will find many owners have pets including dogs living outside are they all bad owners??I am far from a bad person i have just hand reared 7 SBT puppies from 4weeks of age if i had not taken them they would of all been PTS the pups needed feeding every 2 hours when they arrived with lots of help and advice i have rehomed 6 now 15week old healthy pups.We kept the last remaining pup(Poppy)I paid for all the costs of rearing the pups and i asked for donations to be made to HAPPA instead of selling the pups.Must i also stress whilst rearing the pups i never once used cages,yes obviously the dogs were seperated but not with the use of cages and i managed perfectly fine.The dogs are all settled into their new homes and having checked last night none of the new owners are using cages much to my relief.My sharp-ei as said previously Vaunny had been bred for illegal dog fighting i paid £1000 to make sure he had a happy future with us i could of used him as a stud dog but NO been the RESPONSIBLE owner i am he was castrated asap i may also add that anyone who knows of the breed knows they can have continous health problems i am actively involved in trying to get the brred banned as its a very cruel breed!!Our other dog Tilly is also a rescue dog!
As for our rescue ferrets they are both very old and all they do is sleep but they have a big cage Thistle Hall that we bought from [email protected] with a run attached they are my daughters pets and anyone who has ferrets will know they need to be handled lots my daughter is 8yrs old and never been bitten due to all the attention they get.
As for my daughters new pony he/she will be kept nearby out in a field with a shelter!!
It very sad that i feel i have had to explain myself but for the good,nice members on here i needed to say the above(sorry to go on!)To be honest i think all of the above prove i am a very kind responsible pet owner i will not be put off by members on here regarding fostering dogs!
Thank you again for the support!
michelle


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Can i just ask why certain members are telling other members to pm me with their opinions very sly and underhand and def bullying!!i think my previous post says enough!!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Michelle
I for one am going to ask you to re-consider leaving the forum !
What happened yesterday should never have happened.
It is obvious to me from reading you previous threads that you are a genuine animal lover! And you are so right you should not have to defend yourself.
If the others cannot see beyond this thread , and let bygones be bygones then thats their problem and not yours! and I am sure I an not alone in my opinions, and hopefully others will post shortly.
DT


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> Can i just ask why certain members are telling other members to pm me with their opinions very sly and underhand and def bullying!!i think my previous post says enough!!


Michelle,
please do not leave the forum and give the nasty few the satisfaction. Ive been so worried about you after reading the abuse you got on here and i know others have been worried about you too. I can honestly say this really is a good forum, although i can fully understand why you may now think otherwise. There are many fantastic, kind, helpful members on here. Unfortunately you had the misfortune to encounter some of the not so nice ones. You dont have to explain yourself to anyone and you have every right to have your own views/opinions. As you know, i am one of the ones who sent you a message asking you to stay. Please reconsider and stay, you will find many great people on here...xxxx  

Ony


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> Can i just ask why certain members are telling other members to pm me with their opinions very sly and underhand and def bullying!!i think my previous post says enough!!


If anyone is bullying you Michelle - report the post to a mod!
DT


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

Michelle please do not leave the forum. I do know you are an animal lover or you would not have joined this forum. I just got offended at the fact that your posts implied how 'cruel' we all were to put our lovely furballs in their pens/crates, which i thought was incredibly un called for in my opinion. Our crates/pens are not used as cages - they are used to keep our babies in a calm, safe environment when we are not there and for house training purposes. That's all i wanted to say that's all. Apologies if you think any of us were rude, we were all just rather offended by being called cruel when like yourselves we are all animal lovers who would die for our dogs, like parents would die for their children. Well i would, especially since i can't have kids so my dogs are like my children.

So please lets turn the other cheek and let bygones be bygones and start over again. Please? I promse we are all a friendluy bunch. We just don't like it when we're reading comments that offend us. I mean if someone came to your house and thought you were being cruel to your pets i am sure you would be hurt by the matter right? 

So lets start again. Hi I'm ad_1980 whats your name?


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

ad_1980 said:


> Michelle please do not leave the forum. I do know you are an animal lover or you would not have joined this forum. I just got offended at the fact that your posts implied how 'cruel' we all were to put our lovely furballs in their pens/crates, which i thought was incredibly un called for in my opinion. Our crates/pens are not used as cages - they are used to keep our babies in a calm, safe environment when we are not there and for house training purposes. That's all i wanted to say that's all. Apologies if you think any of us were rude, we were all just rather offended by being called cruel when like yourselves we are all animal lovers who would die for our dogs, like parents would die for their children. Well i would, especially since i can't have kids so my dogs are like my children.
> 
> So please lets turn the other cheek and let bygones be bygones and start over again. Please? I promse we are all a friendluy bunch. We just don't like it when we're reading comments that offend us. I mean if someone came to your house and thought you were being cruel to your pets i am sure you would be hurt by the matter right?
> 
> So lets start again. Hi I'm ad_1980 whats your name?


I can understand that but you must admit the pack mentality of the hyenas going in for the kill is not the right way to get peoples point across. It's ok people saying they didn't like being called cruel but reading back through this thread i found others comments to the lady far more cruel. Why cant we just show the lady what a great place this forum is and just how supportive we can all be...xxx


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> I can understand that but you must admit the pack mentality of the hyenas going in for the kill is not the right way to get peoples point across. It's ok people saying they didn't like being called cruel but reading back through this thread i found others comments to the lady far more cruel. Why cant we just show the lady what a great place this forum is and just how supportive we can all be...xxx


Nah Ony you've got that wrong! Hyenas hang onto their prey! bit like some I know!!! No names mentioned . Sheep sping to my mind!!! wonder where the flock are!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Michelle this is an open forum,
When you post in the manner you did,expect it to be challenged.This goes for any forum.Some of your posts were extremely rude and you refused to accept other's opinions.
There is no right or wrong answer with regards to using crates,some of us choose to use them to keep our dogs safe and secure,others don't.

As for the banning of breeds....I don't believe any breed should be banned,it's called educating the owners and breeders.I think we have had enough of BSL.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Nah Ony you've got that wrong! Hyenas hang onto their prey! bit like some I know!!! No names mentioned . Sheep sping to my mind!!! wonder where the flock are!


So true Sue. As for the flock...im ready and waiting  xxxx


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## Sophiex (Jul 27, 2008)

I'm not going to go on and on about this anymore. I *never *thought or said that Michelle was a cruel owner, I simply was offended by her implication that I was because I crate my dog. It felt like this thread was started to cause drama and it did. I guess there isn't a lot more to say. IMO, it's time to move on.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Sophiex said:


> I'm not going to go on and on about this anymore. I *never *thought or said that Michelle was a cruel owner, I simply was offended by her implication that I was because I crate my dog. It felt like this thread was started to cause drama and it did. I guess there isn't a lot more to say. IMO, it's time to move on.


Totally agree


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

Sophiex said:


> I'm not going to go on and on about this anymore. I *never *thought or said that Michelle was a cruel owner, I simply was offended by her implication that I was because I crate my dog. It felt like this thread was started to cause drama and it did. I guess there isn't a lot more to say. IMO, it's time to move on.





sallyanne said:


> Totally agree


Right. That's what i said. Or tried to. Yep time to move on that's why i ended my last post the way i did.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Sophiex said:


> I'm not going to go on and on about this anymore. I *never *thought or said that Michelle was a cruel owner, I simply was offended by her implication that I was because I crate my dog. It felt like this thread was started to cause drama and it did. I guess there isn't a lot more to say. IMO, it's time to move on.


The fact the thread ended in drama does not mean it was started for that reason. In my opinion i can see nothing wrong with the ladys original post or opinions/questions. It got out of hand and any negative comments coming from the lady would clearly have been through being backed into a corner with a mob on her case. Yes i agree it's time to move on, preferably without any insults. That way the lady can see the forum and it's members for the great place it/they are.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Sophiex said:


> It felt like this thread was started to cause drama and it did. (/QUOTE]
> 
> What a stupid thing to say!!! I have read the original posters first post, again and again and again. Now maybe i'm losing it, or perhaps I'm reading it different to the rest of you. BUT - I can see nothing in the OP that is wrong!!! The original poster is merely stating HER opinion on crates!! have the forum rules changed whilst I was away and we are not longer allowed to do this!
> 
> DT


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> What rude members there is on here!i find it funny how the members been very diffensive are the ones using wire cages!!At least i know my dogs are never locked in cages and are happy healthy dogs!!To me using cages is no better than puppy farming!!its a disgrace leaving any dog in a cage for any amount of time.I would never lock my children in a room which to me is exactly what your doing.
> Goodbye forum!





michelle said:


> Of course i accepted members to agree im appaulled at how many people think its ok to lock a dog in a metal cage!!!some of these dogs must be in these cages for hours whilst people are out at work,sleeping etc!!





michelle said:


> All i can say is i really pity all of your pets!!!At the end of the day you lock your so called loved pets in metal cages its an absolute disgrace!


These are just a sample of Michelle's posts on this thread,now I found them offensive so did other member's.

She pity's our dogs,yet doesn't know them or us or our lifestyle's,she has called us cruel and compared us to puppy farmers, and this is accepting other's opinions.I think not!

Now had this been posted on other forums I think Michelle would have had the same reaction,people who deeply love and care for there dogs object to some of the statements made.


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

oi vay i can't believe this thread has gone 30+ pages. enough already!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Sophiex said:
> 
> 
> > It felt like this thread was started to cause drama and it did. (/QUOTE]
> ...


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> These are just a sample of Michelle's posts on this thread,now I found them offensive so did other member's.
> 
> She pity's our dogs,yet doesn't know them or us or our lifestyle's,she has called us cruel and compared us to puppy farmers, and this is accepting other's opinions.I think not!
> 
> Now had this been posted on other forums I think Michelle would have had the same reaction,people who deeply love and care for there dogs object to some of the statements made.


Sallyanne at least be honest about the fact these are NOT the way the lady starting out posting. These comments came AFTER she was being attacked by the mob.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> These are just a sample of Michelle's posts on this thread,now I found them offensive so did other member's.
> 
> She pity's our dogs,yet doesn't know them or us or our lifestyle's,she has called us cruel and compared us to puppy farmers, and this is accepting other's opinions.I think not!
> 
> Now had this been posted on other forums I think Michelle would have had the same reaction,people who deeply love and care for there dogs object to some of the statements made.


In all fairness sallyanne I believe those threads were posted well into the debate, which I belive was going well for the first couple of pages, The OP was I believe asked in all innocence.

The first post to start us on the downward slop was by Angel I believe (albeit unknowingly - as I do not for one moment think that Angel intended it to be read the way it was). The OP did say things that were out of order admitidly just the way I react (out of frustration) when attacked by 20 or so baying hounds!

love
DT


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I havent read the last 20 or so pages so cant comment on anything but using cages, crates or whatever you want to call them. How on earth did it go on that long. Anyway I have never liked cages, though I have owned one for years but never put a dog in it in the house. But my new pup has been crated all her life so I am going to carry on and if last night was anything to go by it is a wonderful invention! 9 week puppys first night in her new home and she was clean and she didnt cry. I like it!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

OK my 2 penneth worth as a member of the "pack" or a "sheep".

I was perfectly pleasant to this poster despite the fact that i found the tone of her posts pretty judgemental.

I tried to inform as i have always done when this question comes up the positive aspects of crate training and why i did it and love it.

I will not be acused of cruelty by ANYONE new, old i don't care.

The fact that this poster offended half the forum is pretty clear who is right or wrong here and then to be honest she was so offensive that we thought she was a troll and treated her accordingly. EVERY time the thread died she started it up again (if you read it) and wound us all up.

She was treated exactly the same as any other wind up merchant would have been on here. 

At the end we were just having a laugh because to be honest we felt it was the best way to treat the abusive posts.

When a person has the audacity to tell me i am no better than a puppy farmer they need to be whiter than white and keeping ferrets in a cage is still a cage in my opinion.

How dare she come on here behaving like the wounded one after what she called us. I have seen some of you descend on members for much less when your friends have been involved or it was something you felt strongly about.

I think the thread should be closed.


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## Dylan & Daisy (Feb 4, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> In all fairness sallyanne I believe those threads were posted well into the debate, which I belive was going well for the first couple of pages, The OP was I believe asked in all innocence.
> 
> The first post to start us on the downward slop was by Angel I believe (albeit unknowingly - as I do not for one moment think that Angel intended it to be read the way it was). The OP did say things that were out of order admitidly just the way I react (out of frustration) when attacked by 20 or so baying hounds!
> 
> ...


I admit i may have been guilty of misinterpreting the OP meaning, it's easy to misread the written word but i didn't mean for my response to be offensive either :frown2: I don't feel that i was being rude but if i was i apologise.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

AngelXoXo said:


> I admit i may have been guilty of misinterpreting the OP meaning, it's easy to misread the written word but i didn't mean for my response to be offensive either :frown2: I don't feel that i was being rude but if i was i apologise.


Angel - I was not getting at you honey! it's just the way everything decended from there
DT


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

I was the main contender in this debate. If you want to call me a bully go ahead. 

We were asked two main questions and they were answered swiftly, then she did not drop it, instead argued her point repeatedly calling us cruel and comparing us to puppy farmers. I will not lay down when someone calls me cruel, i did mention it was not what she said but the way she said it. 

I actually said it was near the grounds of slander. 

Now if you want to carry on do.

She is allowed to have her views but she should do so without calling us names. 

We were provoked. I cannot believe this has erupted to this.

Some of you older members have shown your truer colours too. :frown2:


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> I was the main contender in this debate. If you want to call me a bully go ahead.
> 
> We were asked two main questions and they were answered swiftly, then she did not drop it, instead argued her point repeatedly calling us cruel and comparing us to puppy farmers. I will not lay down when someone calls me cruel, i did mention it was not what she said but the way she said it.
> 
> ...


I'll always show my true colours sunshine! and sometimes they ain't very nice!! !


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

The comments were posted after her questions were answered and we didn't agree with her.

In all honesty is that the way you respond when someone doesn't agree with you and those comments were uncalled for and not necessary.She was getting personal as you can see from the statements she made,her questions were answered in a proper manner and she responded by attacking members and comparing us to Puppy Farmers which I take exception to.

If you can't debate in a friendly way and put your points accross without the need for getting personal then don't respond to the thread.Simple 

Yes I use crates - like many other owners and breeders do, what's the big deal ?


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## Dylan & Daisy (Feb 4, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Angel - I was not getting at you honey! it's just the way everything decended from there
> DT


No i know you weren't love.....:biggrin: xx just apologising for my part though dont think i was particularly mean


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

rainy said:


> OK my 2 penneth worth as a member of the "pack" or a "sheep".
> 
> I was perfectly pleasant to this poster despite the fact that i found the tone of her posts pretty judgemental.
> 
> ...


We were all friendly Rainy - and no she should never have said some of the things she did!!! but she was outnumbered!! and retaliated in the way she did!

Sometimes (NOT VERY OFTEN) we have to be big and rise above! - if you read all the OP posts on her profile I think you have to agree she is a compassinate caring person!!

DT


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

Can you not preach at us. You aren't perfect yourself.


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> We were all friendly Rainy - and no she should never have said some of the things she did!!! but she was outnumbered!! and retaliated in the way she did!
> 
> Sometimes (NOT VERY OFTEN) we have to be big and rise above! - if you read all the OP posts on her profile I think you have to agree she is a compassinate caring person!!
> 
> DT


we never said she wasn't caring, compassionate.

we are caring compassionate too about animal.

Why are you carrying this debate on. The best thing for everyone to do is quit the thread.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> Can you not preach at us. You aren't perfect yourself.


If thats for me!
Whatever gave you that impression I was born perfect!


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

OMG i can not believe this thread........... another one!

I dont use crates but i have nothing against them


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

rainy said:


> OK my 2 penneth worth as a member of the "pack" or a "sheep".
> 
> I was perfectly pleasant to this poster despite the fact that i found the tone of her posts pretty judgemental.
> 
> ...


Why are people not reading the posts in order? It is perfectly clear that the lady was NOT the first one to cause offence. Also to continue to making comments suggesting the lady behaved like a troll is certainly not fair. 



Georges Mum said:


> I was the main contender in this debate. If you want to call me a bully go ahead.
> 
> We were asked two main questions and they were answered swiftly, then she did not drop it, instead argued her point repeatedly calling us cruel and comparing us to puppy farmers. I will not lay down when someone calls me cruel, i did mention it was not what she said but the way she said it.
> 
> ...


You have the audacity to say YOU were provoked? 
As i previously stated...read the posts in order then see who was the first to be provoked. It certainly wasn't you or any other member it was the lady herself. As for your statement about seeing the true colours of some of the older members...that works both ways. I was sickened by some of the comments i saw you lot post which you were only brave enough to do with a crowd behind you. See how you feel when you are out numbered and being picked on and you are fighting your corner on your own.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> we never said she wasn't caring, compassionate.
> 
> we are caring compassionate too about animal.
> 
> Why are you carrying this debate on. The best thing for everyone to do is quit the thread.


I'll ask the same question Why are you?


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks for the support guys i will not be bullied by any of the members on here.Some members on here should be ashamed of themselves.I dont need to explain myself to anyone on here.I think some members showed their true colours yesterday and to be honest today the nice members have out numbered the nasty one so im not gonna loose any sleep over it im sticking its a forum it doesnt belong to a certain flock of "sheep".The personal attack on me by members speaks for itself!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Sad thing is i only came on here for some advice on fostering dogs that will be put to sleep!!!!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> Thanks for the support guys i will not be bullied by any of the members on here.Some members on here should be ashamed of themselves.I dont need to explain myself to anyone on here.I think some members showed their true colours yesterday and to be honest today the nice members have out numbered the nasty one so im not gonna loose any sleep over it im sticking its a forum it doesnt belong to a certain flock of "sheep".The personal attack on me by members speaks for itself!


well Michelle I'll say one thing! you'll be remembered for some time to come! 
Give us a chance - get to know people - and look back and laff at this post in time to come!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

sallyanne said:


> The comments were posted after her questions were answered and we didn't agree with her.
> 
> In all honesty is that the way you respond when someone doesn't agree with you and those comments were uncalled for and not necessary.She was getting personal as you can see from the statements she made,her questions were answered in a proper manner and she responded by attacking members and comparing us to Puppy Farmers which I take exception to.
> 
> ...


Sallyanne, you know i respect your views but the fact remains that although the lady may have said nasty comments, it was only AFTER being insulted herself. Im not saying your comments but if you read the first few pages (up to 3rd page i think) you will see who was first to make an offensive comment and that the ladys nasty comments were as a result of being backed into a corner and being out numbered.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> You have the audacity to say YOU were provoked?
> As i previously stated...read the posts in order then see who was the first to be provoked. It certainly wasn't you or any other member it was the lady herself. As for your statement about seeing the true colours of some of the older members...that works both ways. I was sickened by some of the comments i saw you lot post which you were only brave enough to do with a crowd behind you. See how you feel when you are out numbered and being picked on and you are fighting your corner on your own.


Well you certainly say it like it is ONY - I'll say that for ya! Remind me not to get on your wrong side!
DT


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Lets be honest the personal attack was a disgrace to all the members involved!!Nobody even knows me but honestly im sooooo over it your nasty comments/remarks have show the people you really are.I was attacked yesterday for disagreeing to the use of crtaes.Its joke.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

michelle said:


> Thanks for the support guys i will not be bullied by any of the members on here.Some members on here should be ashamed of themselves.I dont need to explain myself to anyone on here.I think some members showed their true colours yesterday and to be honest today the nice members have out numbered the nasty one so im not gonna loose any sleep over it im sticking its a forum it doesnt belong to a certain flock of "sheep".The personal attack on me by members speaks for itself!


hi
ive not read all the thread but i can see it as got out of hand!
i also dont use crates but i have nothing against them if used properly
i also think calling members puppy farmers was a bit below the belt
it is a shame this forum can not have a good debate with out mud flying

well that is just what i think lol


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

To be honest if anyone has anything negative keep it within your little "flock"i simply asked a question.Personal remarks are below the belt.I WILL BE STAYING ON THE PUBLIC FORUM!!:biggrin:


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> Thanks for the support guys i will not be bullied by any of the members on here.Some members on here should be ashamed of themselves.I dont need to explain myself to anyone on here.I think some members showed their true colours yesterday and to be honest today the nice members have out numbered the nasty one so im not gonna loose any sleep over it im sticking its a forum it doesnt belong to a certain flock of "sheep".The personal attack on me by members speaks for itself!


Told you the nice members out number the nasty ones. 
Just sorry you had to witness any nastiness at all. Not the best welcome in the world. But i think your'e a tough cookie and you've certainly got the right attitude as far as it's not worth losing any sleep over. Just remember you are not alone...xxxx  



DoubleTrouble said:


> well Michelle I'll say one thing! you'll be remembered for some time to come!
> Give us a chance - get to know people - and look back and laff at this post in time to come!


Im with you on that one Sue. Give us and the forum a chance Michelle this will blow over. Honestly we're a nice bunch really..lol...xxxx


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

michelle said:


> To be honest if anyone has anything negative keep it within your little "flock"i simply asked a question.Personal remarks are below the belt.I WILL BE STAYING ON THE PUBLIC FORUM!!:biggrin:


good for you

ive had problems on here to
i dont belong to a flock apart from my dog pack


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

I have just seen another thread which is aimed at me??its pathetic it really is!!!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Well you certainly say it like it is ONY - I'll say that for ya! Remind me not to get on your wrong side!
> DT


You know me Sue...never was one to mince my words. xxxx  



michelle said:


> To be honest if anyone has anything negative keep it within your little "flock"i simply asked a question.Personal remarks are below the belt.I WILL BE STAYING ON THE PUBLIC FORUM!!:biggrin:


Glad to you'll be staying. That's the spirit. xxxx  :thumbup:


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> I have just seen another thread which is aimed at me??its pathetic it really is!!!


What thread Michelle?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Ok now after a lengthy debate with my daughter i can see that i for one probably misunderstood where michelle might have been coming from.I have had dogs for over 40 years and until i got Mia and Kai i had never used a crate.That fact that i do now was brought up in mine and ony's (Free-spirits) debate.And the truth is,i use a crate now for MY convienience.And yes i think i've probably made a rod for my own back by doing so.The truth is,if i leave their crate unlocked at night the will poo and wee in the kitchen but never soil their crate.So now i have to question myself as to why i haven't adressed the problem as i would have done with my other dogs.Another thing is this,how many of us don't agree with the likes of lions and tigers being caged? I think its down right cruel,but in the same breath i admit i use a crate.Just a few things that might get the brain cells thinking.I for one am sorry if i upset michelle, and would hate to think ANYONE would leave the forum for something i said.*


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok now after a lengthy debate with my daughter i can see that i for one probably misunderstood where michelle might have been coming from.I have had dogs for over 40 years and until i got Mia and Kai i had never used a crate.That fact that i do now was brought up in mine and ony's (Free-spirits) debate.And the truth is,i use a crate now for MY convienience.And yes i think i've probably made a rod for my own back by doing so.The truth is,if i leave their crate unlocked at night the will poo and wee in the kitchen but never soil their crate.So now i have to question myself as to why i haven't adressed the problem as i would have done with my other dogs.Another thing is this,how many of us don't agree with the likes of lions and tigers being caged? I think its down right cruel,but in the same breath i admit i use a crate.Just a few things that might get the brain cells thinking.I for one am sorry if i upset michelle, and would hate to think ANYONE would leave the forum for something i said.*


well said Jan - and on that note I think it is time we ask a mod to close this thread!

I thinke everyone is big enough to let bygones be bygones and not bear no grudges.

XXXX
Have a nice day everyone!


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

Not so long back i bought my pups a huge canvas show crate to use as a bed as they were using a metal one as a bed and it got to small. They are not locked in it at all only using it as a bed. I posted a picture of them fast asleep n it on my forum as they loved it. Their breeder saw it went absoloutly mad and threatened to come and take them back.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Indie said:


> Not so long back i bought my pups a huge canvas show crate to use as a bed as they were using a metal one as a bed and it got to small. They are not locked in it at all only using it as a bed. I posted a picture of them fast asleep n it on my forum as they loved it. Their breeder saw it went absoloutly mad and threatened to come and take them back.


And ive got a canvas pet carrier i bought for my cat which i use for his bed. He loves it, infact he's in there now. 
Clearly i dont have it zipped up but it also helps him get used to it for if and when he will need to go to the vets.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> Lets be honest the personal attack was a disgrace to all the members involved!!Nobody even knows me but honestly im sooooo over it your nasty comments/remarks have show the people you really are.I was attacked yesterday for disagreeing to the use of crtaes.Its joke.


I assume by this you mean your personal attack also.

I apologise if the thread got out of hand and my only defense is that i genuinely believed you were on a wind up because every time the thread died you started off again and that is generally what Trolls do therefore my comments were based on the regard i give to people who come on forums just to cause trouble.

If you say that was not your intention then fair enough.

I will not be contributing further to this or any thread related to this. I am stepping away from the laptop. 

I am also in no way interested in a fight with other forum members.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

rainy said:


> I will not be contributing further to this or any thread related to this. I am stepping away from the laptop.
> 
> I am also in no way interested in a fight with other forum members.


Arrrh
Rainy And here I was finking you were up for a good scrap 
lol
DT


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

rainy said:


> I assume by this you mean your personal attack also.
> 
> I apologise if the thread got out of hand and my only defense is that i genuinely believed you were on a wind up because every time the thread died you started off again and that is generally what Trolls do therefore my comments were based on the regard i give to people who come on forums just to cause trouble.
> 
> ...


Can we all kiss and make up now please?...xxxx


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

What upset me was she saw the crate didn't ask me in which way i was using it, went and got advice form friends and them jumped down my throat via email.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

rainy said:


> I assume by this you mean your personal attack also.
> 
> I apologise if the thread got out of hand and my only defense is that i genuinely believed you were on a wind up because every time the thread died you started off again and that is generally what Trolls do therefore my comments were based on the regard i give to people who come on forums just to cause trouble.
> 
> ...


I think i have already explained myself and have no intention of doing so again!I think it is best for EVERYONE you keep your opinions about me to yourself and vice versa.I have no interest in anything you say or feel about me but i will not be leaving the forum so it is best we simply ignore each other.thank you.
now i really hope this is the end of this.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Ok

I have just read this whole thread..... I am trying to be objective here....

I too felt the original posts were implying i was cruel, and i responded accordingly.

Now I am going to say again, opinions differ, debates are healthy, but we should be able to see both sides of an argument to stop it spiraling out of controll. I do feel that things went too far from both sides, however the OP's posts very early in the thread (while people were still answering her original questions) left everyone feeling that there was no room for manouver. It came across as a number of statements and announcements without the respect or consideration that other peoples views will differ from her own. However due to the nature of this thread it was bound to put peoples backs up, it became personal with sweeping statements which then became personal in turn.

I'm not saying your wrong michelle, i said before i respect your opinion. However I am allowed to disagree, and should not ever ever be called or made to feel cruel just because i employ a different method for caring for my dog.

Petforums is able to have healthy debates, you only need to read the iams and animal ethics threads to see that. Lets stop being personal (EVERYBODY), respect others differences of opinions and enjoy a good healthy debate! This subject would be a good one to debate, providing the right consideration is taken in your posts! All it would have taken from everyone is the time to consider what you are posting and how others are going to read it, respect their opinion (even if you vehemently disagree) and they will respect yours.

Right off my soapbox now.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

I can't believe this thread is still ongoing......

Michelle this is a forum,but when you challenge members with many years experience about a subject you clearly know little about expect them to challenge you back.

You have expressed your opinions quite clearly about how you feel about crates,which is fine,however if you are going to debate you need to put your point accross without personal remarks and insults.


I also agree with Rainy,your behaviour was typical of what trolls do,post remarks then sit back and watch all the drama unfold.

You said you thought Crates were cruel,that's what you believe and that's fine,however you never actually gave any explanation as to why just an attack on members saying you felt pity for our dogs and compared us to puppy farmers,there are better ways to give a point of view,
Have a look at some of the recent threads the Iams one maybe a good starting point.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Why is this still going on?????it was finished with my last post!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> Why is this still going on?????it was finished with my last post!


?? your last post was about another thread?


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

billyboysmammy said:


> ?? your last post was about another thread?


No it wasn't....read above your previous post.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

michelle said:


> Why is this still going on?????it was finished with my last post!


*Hi michelle, if you ask one of the mods or Mark they will close the thread for you.*


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> I think i have already explained myself and have no intention of doing so again!I think it is best for EVERYONE you keep your opinions about me to yourself and vice versa.I have no interest in anything you say or feel about me but i will not be leaving the forum so it is best we simply ignore each other.thank you.
> now i really hope this is the end of this.


last post on this thread!!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Hi michelle, if you ask one of the mods or Mark they will close the thread for you.*


Good idea. :thumbup1:


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks Janice it needs closing how do ask for it to be closed???sorry new to forums so dont have a clue!!


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## Georges Mum (Aug 12, 2008)

right - i would like to apoligise to Michelle - i was wrong in the way i spoke to you at times and i am sorry for that, I don't normally shout or blow my top. I am normally kind and welcoming. However i did find that the way you spoke was slightly threatening to myself being told i was sad and cruel.
We did not mean to act like 'mob' - it was mistaken more for the fact so many people disagreed with what you were saying so it appeared like a mass attack. I did not set out to personally attack you and i don't feel i did - i only retaliated because i was called cruel
I apoligise for the misunderstanding, i have a lot of respect for what you have done for other animals and can see you do care about your animals a lot. 
I myself have rehomed two out of my three dogs, one of which i might add is making our lives a misery, constantly cocking his leg, very distructive and bit my daughter last week. So i am trying to do the right thing by the animals too. 
I would like to put this behind us and the sooner the better.
In my other thread i did not mean i was better than you either because i was here longer, i only meant i'm shocked some people can't seem to look behind one bad thing - everyone does start off equal here. 
so can we please just stop this discussion and get on with the firum. I am actually really friendly believe it or not. This business has made me for one really unhappy today and i would like to try and make amends.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> Thanks Janice it needs closing how do ask for it to be closed???sorry new to forums so dont have a clue!!


Click on this link Michelle. It will take you to the Forums owners profile where you can send him a pm.   ...His name is Mark...xxxx

Pet Forums Community - View Profile: petforum


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> No it wasn't....read above your previous post.


:thumbup: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:

Agree though thread should be closed.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Thank you.We all have different opinions and thats good but i am sure we both love and care about our pets the same.I would like to put this whole thing to an end.I also am a very friendly person and would like to get on in the forum.I am sure we have many things in common with regards to animals i am sure you care for your animals and you love them deeply.I did not want to upset anyone yesterday i was hoping for help and advice here.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

PS georges mum there really is no need for you to leave the forum.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Georges Mum said:


> right - i would like to apoligise to Michelle - i was wrong in the way i spoke to you at times and i am sorry for that, I don't normally shout or blow my top. I am normally kind and welcoming. However i did find that the way you spoke was slightly threatening to myself being told i was sad and cruel.
> We did not mean to act like 'mob' - it was mistaken more for the fact so many people disagreed with what you were saying so it appeared like a mass attack. I did not set out to personally attack you and i don't feel i did - i only retaliated because i was called cruel
> I apoligise for the misunderstanding, i have a lot of respect for what you have done for other animals and can see you do care about your animals a lot.
> I myself have rehomed two out of my three dogs, one of which i might add is making our lives a misery, constantly cocking his leg, very distructive and bit my daughter last week. So i am trying to do the right thing by the animals too.
> ...


I for one respect what you have just said and it takes a bigger person to say such a thing. I also agree we should all put this behind us and get back to having a laugh and being friends as we usually are. xxxx


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> I for one respect what you have just said and it takes a bigger person to say such a thing. I also agree we should all put this behind us and get back to having a laugh and being friends as we usually are. xxxx


couldnt agree more xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Ive just reread this first 5 pages of this thread, and in my opinion, no-one "ganged up" on the OP.

She became incredibly defensive from the offset. Her first few posts were genuine i feel. People were replying in a friendly manner, but merely asking her why she feels the way she does. Rather than explain and backup her point of view, she vehemently defended her opinion of dog cages, implying first, and then actually stating, that they are cruel.

Which leads to me to wonder WHY she started the thread in the first place, as it certainly wasnt to educate herself. Its obvious she feels very strongly against the use of cages, and that is her choice. N0-one is asking her to use one, no-one is trying to convert her and change her mind. All i have read is people explaining why they personally use one. It seems as no-one was really of her opinion that they are cruel, she may have felt a little out-numbered. 

Maybe a few people did over-react. I certainly find it hard to be offended by words on a screen. If someone wishes to call me cruel and compare me to a puppy farmer, then thats their choice.
I dont personally like dogs being shut in kennels outside, or being chained up, but i wouldnt imply or suggest that someone is being cruel if they choose to do this.

Its all about personal choice, and i think Michelle needs to respect the fact that whilst her opinion is of the minority, it doesnt make her wrong, but there is no need to call others cruel because their opinion differs from hers. Everyone is entitled to a different opinion. I have many that im sure would create conflict on this forum, so i choose to keep them to myself.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy debate, aslong as both sides respect eachothers views. I think i made one joke post in this thread, as like others, i truly felt this was a bit of a wind-up.

Having thought about it, in some respects you ARE correct Michelle. There are a lot of people who will use a dog cage in an inappropriate and perhaps cruel manner. There will always be people who use them as a convenience, somewhere to shut the dog when they cant be bothered, or if the dog is naughty. Thankfully id like to think that those sorts of people dont frequent this forum.

As with many training aids, a cage is open to abuse. It can be used correctly, or it can be used cruelly. The majority of people will use a cage for the safety of their dog, because when it boils down to it, thats all thats important. We all love our dogs, and we all have their welfare in mind. Im not blessed with a huge house and huge garden, the were many dangers that could have proved deadly for my dogs, so i used one to keep my dogs safe when i wasnt at home. I wouldnt use one now, as firstly they dont need it, and secondly, they dont like it.

I dont agree with you leaving your dogs unattended in your garden, but i have to respect the fact that you feel this is the best thing for YOUR dogs, and i ask you to respect that I, and others on here, feel that a cage is the best for OUR dogs. 

If cruelty hadnt been suggested, then i feel this may have been an interesting thread.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*WHERE ARE THE MODS?*


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *WHERE ARE THE MODS?*


I was hoping this thread would have been closed by now so as not to keep adding to it and risk causing more conflict with little digs.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

rainy said:


> OK my 2 penneth worth as a member of the "pack" or a "sheep".
> 
> I was perfectly pleasant to this poster despite the fact that i found the tone of her posts pretty judgemental.
> 
> ...


I must say, I completely agree with this. There was error on both of our parts on this, things got heated and tempers flaired - it's to be expected when someone shows such extreme views of something without showing signs of any prior research or understanding of the subject. Especially when it's something which so many dog owners find to be a godsend. Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions, but when someone who was so quick to demand we respect theirs was equally as quick at slating us for ours, it is hardly surprising we were annoyed by it.

Yes, there was some not very nice things said, but that goes for both the OP and the 'flock' of sheep (one of which was quite possibly me ) and I do think that if we haven't already had one, we do deserve some sort of apology from the OP for repeatedly calling us cruel and compairing us to puppy farmers - no matter how far along in the thread the remarks were made. Things were said and i'm sure this thread will be closed before long, so why don't we take that as a chance to start afresh and hold no grudges?

michelle, you are only new to the forum and it's a shame that you had a bit of a bumpy ride into it - but you'll soon see that debates often gets heated and fur will fly (in a non cruel way) very often, as we are very sensitive to a lot of subjects on here. It was not personal to you as we obviously don't know you - I feel this thread would've turned out in exactly the same way had it have been started by anyone on this forum, no matter how long the OP had been a member of the forum. Stick around, and trust me - you'll see this is just another one of those threads locked due to things getting a little too heated. But, we are mature on here - we all (pretty much) bury the hatchet once the thread is closed and we do not hold grudges against one another, so I ask you to do the same.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Oh Portia
I just luvre it when the fur flies


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

I have asked for this thread to be closed asap as people are just wanting to keep going on and cause more problems.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Portia Elizabeth said:


> and I do think that if we haven't already had one, we do deserve some sort of apology from the OP for repeatedly calling us cruel and compairing us to puppy farmers - no matter how far along in the thread the remarks were made.


Be damned if id apologise to someone for whatever comments i said if it was their fault to begin with. How insulting.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

I have No intention of saying sorry to ANYONE who do these people think they are!!And why are member still trying to carry this on.:confused1:
I am def the one not causing trouble right im gonna shut up before i let certain members win AGAIN


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

michelle said:


> I have No intention of saying sorry to ANYONE who do these people think they are!!And why are member still trying to carry this on.:confused1:
> I am def the one not causing trouble right im gonna shut up before i let certain members win AGAIN


It's ok Michelle if they continue i will be reporting their comments as i find it disgusting and insulting that they are carrying on.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*I have asked Mark if he will close this thread for Michelle..Enough is Enough.*


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2009)

Thank you.


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