# Have I given my fish a death sentence?



## Guest

Hi guys,

Our 2 month old fishtank had started to leak from one side so we went and got another tank the same free of charge. I did the same things to the new tank as I did the first tank. Rinsed the filter, rinsed the tank itself and rinsed the gravel and plant before moving the water from the old tank across to the new one. As I was moving the water across I cleaned the gravel from the old tank as all the crud always congregates at the bottom I find.
All of the mucky water from the gravel (about 1/2 litre) I chucked out and replaced with clean water.
As I now have a 2nd filter through getting a new starter kit in the tank, I put both filters in the new tank, figured 2 has got to be better than one, right?
The old filter I left dirty as not to get rid of the bacteria that has built up in it.

All this was 2 days ago.

Anyway, Mr Fish looked unwell yesterday. He was swimming around but had all his fins tucked in. Never a good sign from my experience! Today he is lying at the bottom of the tank  He does swim up for food, but soon settles back on the gravel.

What have I done wrong here? Did I maybe not rinse the new stuff well enough? Is 2 filters too much? Did the tank need the bacteria that I chucked out with the manky gravel water? Is he just stressed from the move?

I have no idea what I've done wrong if anything, anyone have any ideas?

Is this the end for Mr Fish? 

(Also I'm not using the tank regulating tester thingies. I did that with my last tank (spent a fortune!) and the fish STILL died after a few months, so this time I am just doing the basics. Small water change once a week, rinse the filter when it gets bunged up.)

Any help greatfully recieved!


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## sullivan

Did you use any of the solutions that the fish shops use to utrelise the water they make it more fish safe. They are very good. This happened to one of my fish once it seemed to go into shock and some times you have to be careful with a sudden change of water as the temp drop can stress the fish out. You may find that in a day or so that your fish may start coming round a bit. As the tank settles and the bacteria starts to get back to normal. Good luck


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## Guest

sullivan said:


> Did you use any of the solutions that the fish shops use to utrelise the water they make it more fish safe. They are very good. This happened to one of my fish once it seemed to go into shock and some times you have to be careful with a sudden change of water as the temp drop can stress the fish out. You may find that in a day or so that your fish may start coming round a bit. As the tank settles and the bacteria starts to get back to normal. Good luck


Hi, no I didn't use the tap safe solutions you can buy. We got the fish quite unexpectedly when my sister bought him and the tank for my sons Birthday  (She didn't even buy it any food!) As it was late in the evening I had no choice but to just fill the tank with straight tapwater. Couldn't leave him in his bag all night 

Anyway, the tapwater seemed to have no effect on him at all, so I've just carried on with it for all the water changes. I know it's nothing to do with a drop in temperature as I literally moved the majority of the water from one tank to the other. The only water I didn't move over was the last bit from the gravel which was pretty much the same amount as I take out during a water change, maybe a bit less.

I'll get some tap safe when I go out in a minute and see if that combined with a 25% water change has any effect.

His fins now look like he has fin rot, but have heard this can happen with stress too? I don't want to start adding all sorts of medications to the water if I can avoid it as I know it can really mess with the water quality.

He's still lying there at the bottom of the tank. He's not even very interested in his food now 

Are goldfish just a really hard pet to have? In the past I've done everything exactly by the book only to have them all belly up within a few months. Maybe I just have really bad luck?!

If he doesn't make it is there any sort of fish that would be easier to keep? All I can remember from my childhood fish is waking up every morning to yet another dead one. (I even have nightmares about it STILL! Pathetic I know!) I don't want my son to dread looking in the tank as he grows up, but likewise now we've got the tank I'd like to keep a fish in it.
It's only a tiny size tank, 13 litres I think?


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## sullivan

Had a few golfish in the past my last ones went to my mates pond as they got to big and i had already uped the tank twice. They are doing very well. Yes there a bit hit and miss some people have them for years other seem to go in a few months. All i know is they dont like the clorine in the water much. Yes they can get red streaks through there fins which can go sort of bumpy white this is normally due to bad water quality and stress. I added the general diesase drops to my water and it was clear in a few days. Have you thought of the golden moutain minnoews. I think thats what there called they are usually quite easy to look after as long as you have a pump and filter as they need runny water. They also dont grow very big at all. Out of all my cold water fish i had less trouble with my comets. Although they vary in the size they become and some are only suited to a pond. Surbumkins are also not to bad to care for and come in a sellection of colours. Good luck with the fish. The moutain minnoes are goog if you have a smallist tank.


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## Guest

Well I think Mr Fish is a goner... He's lying still at the bottom of the tank  I haven't tried to get him to move or anything but he looks pretty dead to me *sigh*

Now to decide whether I want to go through this again!

If I do decide to get another fish, do I need to empty the tank out and start again incase it was some kind of contaminant that didn't get rinsed off when I swapped the tanks over? 
How long is it I need to let the tank cycle for without fish in it?

Thanks for all advice over the last couple of days!


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## Sharr76

When I bought my new tank I used a product called filter start, by using this you can introduce fish into your tank within 24 hours. Its a kick start for your filter system.


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## SeaThreePeeO

Please don't let this set back stop you keeping fish as they really are such amazing creatures.

I am sorry that your poor fish has passed on, but there are several things that you can do to prevent this happening again.

I would advise that you give the tank a thorough clean and start again from scratch. Set up your tank, but don't forget to purchase the correct water treatments. You will need a treatment to decolrinate the tap water as well as a treatment to add good bacteria into the tank. It is also a good idea to purchase a water testing kit so you can keep an eye on the water quailty.

Filter start is a good product but I have had the best results with Tetra Bactozym, which is freeze dried good bacteria that you add directly to your filter sponges.

There is much debate about 'cycling' a tank, some people advise a fishless cycle of a week, some 48 hours and other's advise that you cycle the tank (depending on size) with one or too small hardy fish such as danios. This is the method I have used over the years and I have yet to suffer a loss.

For stress in fish I have found Aqualibrium salts to be a god send.


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## sullivan

If you can get it right with your fish tank then fish are so relaxing and beutiful is a shame your fish didnt come right .


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## Guest

Hi guys, before I read this yesterday I actually used a friends filter sponge from their established (disease free) cycled tank to add the beneficial bacteria into my tank (read online this was a good way of doing it). Does anyone know how long I have to leave the tank now to let the bacteria get established? Do I have to keep feeding the tank?
There was a lot of gunk that came off the sponge and the water is now clear. Obviously when it comes time to clean the filters (I imagine they must be nearly blocked!) I'll alternate which filter I clean as not to remove too much bacteria at once. And I'll only wash it in tank water.
I have the tap safe to treat the water for the water changes.

Anything else I need to know? Do I still need a tester kit? Or will a partial water change once a week be sufficient on it's own without me testing now the tank has the bacteria in it?

Should I buy a gravel vacuum for the water changes? Or is taking water from the top of the tank sufficient?

So much I don't know still!


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## SeaThreePeeO

I have a migraine brewing at the moment so if I leave anything out or ramble and not make any sense I apologise. 

Honestly in my experience I have found that just 'feeding' and empty tank is insufficient to cycle it. If you have a product such as Stress Zyme or Nutrifin Cycle then along with the established filter material you should be able to add one or two small hardy fish with in 24 - 48 hours. A word of caution though if you are running two filters and the non established filter is more powerful the the established one then it can cause Ammonia to rise in the water.

If you have a local dedicated aquarium shop they should sell a small bottle of liquid bacteria that you can use to 'seed' the new filter material for a couple of quid. It's well worth it as new filters can take up to two months to become properly established.

Weekly to begin with changing to fortnightly or even three weekly water changes once the tank is doing well should be enough to keep the water quality at it's best for your fish, so a testing kit isn't a necessity (most aquarium shops will test you water for you for a small charge) however it might be a handy thing to have should you encounter any problems just to assure yourself the water is fine. Remember to only change a quarter of the tanks volume.

You should purchase a gravel vacuum as they remove all of the crud that collects in the gravel and in turn lowers the water quality. It doesn't have to be one of those expensive electrical all singing dancing ones. I only use an manual one that cost me about £4.99. When performing water changes you have to remove the water from the bottom of the tank as this is where the nitrites and most of the ammonia settles. So removing water from the surface won't actually help to improve the quality.

After you have purchased your new fish you have to float the bag in the tank for 20 minutes so they water in the bag can adjust to the temperature of the water in the tank. Fish don't like massive changes in temperature.

You may experience a bacterial bloom in your tank for the first 5-10 days, the water will go foggy. This is not a problem for the fish, it's just an explosion in the number of good bacteria and will go away by it self.

I think that is everything. It can be a bit daunting at first and you'll think you'll need a masters degree in Chemistry, but once you get everything spot on it gets a lot easier.

If I have forgotten anything or you need mroe help let us know.


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## Guest

All I did was rinse the used filter sponge in the tank water, so both filters should be taking in the bacteria. When in future I have to rinse the sponges, should I turn the clean filter down to low and keep the dirty one on high? Thus the cleaner one won't be causing the ammonia levels to rise? (Think I've confused myself again lol)
Would you reccommend still buying the cycle liquid alongside the used filter goo then? Thought the used filter sponge was instead of the bottled bacteria (which I've read often doesn't work as it doesn't store well).
Thanks for taking the time to reply to me, especially with a headache coming on!!! I imagine it's far worse after explaining all that!

Will be buying the gravel vacuum when i next head to the pet shop  Thx again!


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## SeaThreePeeO

You will also need the cycle liquid to add to the tank on a weekly basis to keep the good bacteria topped up and during water changes. Now it is relatively easy to store as long as you keep it under 30 degrees c. There are some brands that require refrigeration, but Nutrafin Cycle and Stress Zyme do not.

I wouldn't recommend turning the new filter down as it will take longer to establish. If the filters are the same make then you can seed the new one by swapping one of the established sponges over so you have one dirty and one clean sponge in each filter, if that makes any sense.


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## Guest

Ok, will buy the cycle liquid too  Guess it makes sense for when you do water changes.

Also think I explained wrongly, I have 2 standard filters in one tank. So each time they need rinsing I intend to do one one week say and then one the next week. So there will always be one dirty and one clean in the tank at the same time? Thus not removing too much good bacteria at once? I dunno if that makes sense or not lol.


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## SeaThreePeeO

You shouldn't need two filters in one tank unless the tank is mahoosive.

Cleaning your filter in old tank water shouldn't harm any of the bacteria and should only really be done once a month at most or if the filter clogs.

How many litres is your tank and do you know what make of filter you have?

I currently have two filters running in my tank as I had to change tanks due to a leak. The old filter isn't powerful enough for the 125 litre tank I currently have. So while the new filter matures I have been running the old filter as a back up.

To me is sounds as if your tank is ready to have one or two small hardy fish introduced. Goldfish are nortiously dirty and can cause problems in a new tank set up, but as you have a mature filter they should be okay if monitored closely.

Danios are great little fish and can be kept in a coldwater tank happily long with goldfish. If you tank is big enough to support them I would suggest maybe 4-5 danio and then 3-4 weeks later 1-2 goldfish.

Getting the tank up and running is the hardest bit, but well worth it.


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## Guest

Thanks for the help  The tank is only really really tiny. Only big enough for 1 fish IMO. My Sister just bought the kids starter kit and we all know how unsuitable starter kits usually are for ANY animal. The tank is only 13 litres.
I put the second filter in as hopefully at some point I will upgrade to a bigger tank then I can have the second tank cycling with a mature filter whilst still keeping the fish in the titchy tank until it's done.

Anyone know of a place to get cheap fish tanks? Maybe I'll try freecycle...


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## SeaThreePeeO

Sometimes there are some good deals on Ebay.

I don't think you would be able to successful keep a goldfish in a 13 litre tank as goldfish need a minimum of 40 liters per fish to stay healthy.

I would then recommend keeping a small shoal of Danios. They really are wonderful little fish and I spend hours just watching mine. There are three species readily available the Zebra Danio,








You can get a long finned and even a golden Zebra Danio

The Leopard Danio








Long finned also available

And the Pearl Danio









Of course it is totally up to you, but a good aquarium shop should be able to advise you as to which fish are suited to your tank.


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## Guest

Oooh, so I could actually keep more than one of the other varieties of fish? I wasn't going to get another goldie, but a smaller type as yes I feel the tank is far too small for a goldie. Figured it was probably far too small to keep more than one of anything in so I'm really happy to hear we can have a couple.
How many is a small shoal of Danios? Like 3 or so? They're really cute!

The only reason I wanted a slightly bigger tank was so I didn't have to have a loner fish. Two are far more interesting than one!

Thanks again for all your help, it's been really useful


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