# Kimchi and Kefir.



## Cully (May 16, 2018)

I want to try making kimchi to see if I can improve my gut health, so has anyone got a simple recipe that doesn't require too much preparation or faffing around? 
I don't want to spend too much initially in case it I don't get on with it.
I've just started using Kefir for the same reason as above.
I've had the shop bought ready prepared (Yeo Valley) and think I could make it a regular addition to my diet.
I've heard it's possible to make your own Kefir so hope someone can give a few guidelines.
Many thanks.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I’m not good with dairy but my husband sometimes has Kefir. Yeo valley is an ethical brand but watch out for additives.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I used this method https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/how-make-kefir

Much cheaper than buying ready made.


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## teddylion (Oct 16, 2019)

The BBC article above is good.

I bought kefir grains from Amazon, it took a short while to get them established but this was years ago and they're still going strong. In warmer weather they multiply quickly so I end up giving/throwing grains away.

My grains are kept in a large glass bowl; I add a pint glass of milk and leave them for 24 hours, drain the grains, pour the kefir into a mason jar with the lid open for another 24 hours for a second fermentation. You don't have to do this but for me it makes it creamier and is supposed to improve the nutrition. I always have one load of milk fermenting in the glass bowl while the other load is doing the second fermentation in the mason jar. You can add a slice of fruit or peel to the second fermentation for flavour if you want to experiment.

It can be a bit of a faff sometimes but there's no way I'd buy kefir from a shop when I can make it in large quantities at home.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Nonnie said:


> I used this method https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/how-make-kefir
> 
> Much cheaper than buying ready made.


Thank you for the link. I've had a quick look through and will have a proper look over the weekend.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

MollySmith said:


> I'm not good with dairy but my husband sometimes has Kefir. Yeo valley is an ethical brand but watch out for additives.


I'm not sure if I'm right but the reason I'm looking at home made Kefir is because it contains much more varieties of gut friendly bacteria that shop bought.
Correct me if I'm wrong pls.
Also it's much cheaper.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

teddylion said:


> The BBC article above is good.
> 
> I bought kefir grains from Amazon, it took a short while to get them established but this was years ago and they're still going strong. In warmer weather they multiply quickly so I end up giving/throwing grains away.
> 
> ...


What portion size should I be aiming for?
I did do some research but couldn't find the answer.
The Yeo Valley Kefir I bought was 350gm but there was no indication of how much I should have. That amount surely isn't one portion! I made it last 3 days of one portion per day.
I haven't got much idea about either Kefir of kimchi other than it's supposed to be good in getting the balance right for your gut.


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## teddylion (Oct 16, 2019)

I have almost a pint glass a day, but I realise that's an absolutely massive portion! It's because it's all I have for lunch - I do it because it helps keep my weight stable and keeps me full until dinner (when made with whole milk). Most people would probably have a small glass I expect.

In terms of probiotics, I have IBS which I think kefir has helped with (although still get it when stressed) but other than the weight thing the main reason is because my mum has osteoporosis and I figured this would be a good way for me to prevent suffering the same ailment. From what I understand, milk isn't actually very good for bones due to the lactose, but the fermentation consumes most of this sugar (the longer it's left, the more it consumes). This brings the lactose right down and also increases the amount of vitamin K, which is needed for strong bones.

Of course, most people take it for gut health but those are the other advantages.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

teddylion said:


> I have almost a pint glass a day, but I realise that's an absolutely massive portion! It's because it's all I have for lunch - I do it because it helps keep my weight stable and keeps me full until dinner (when made with whole milk). Most people would probably have a small glass I expect.
> 
> In terms of probiotics, I have IBS which I think kefir has helped with (although still get it when stressed) but other than the weight thing the main reason is because my mum has osteoporosis and I figured this would be a good way for me to prevent suffering the same ailment. From what I understand, milk isn't actually very good for bones due to the lactose, but the fermentation consumes most of this sugar (the longer it's left, the more it consumes). This brings the lactose right down and also increases the amount of vitamin K, which is needed for strong bones.
> 
> Of course, most people take it for gut health but those are the other advantages.


Same for me with IBS, it goes together with my fibromyalgia which I must get under control because it's wrecking my life at the moment and I've tried just about everything else.
I believe it can be made with goats milk too which is lactose free, and oat milk, which I love with porridge.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Have a read up of making it with coconut water (not coconut milk) - its meant to have the greatest benefits out of all the kefirs.

Harder to make though. My next lot im going to try with coconut milk as im trying to reduce my dairy to nothing.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Nonnie said:


> Have a read up of making it with coconut water (not coconut milk) - its meant to have the greatest benefits out of all the kefirs.
> 
> Harder to make though. My next lot im going to try with coconut milk as im trying to reduce my dairy to nothing.


Ooh I absolutely love coconut milk.
Excuse my ignorance but how are you getting sufficient calcium?
I know it's added to dairy milk, that's why I switched to semi skimmed years ago.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Cully said:


> Ooh I absolutely love coconut milk.
> Excuse my ignorance but how are you getting sufficient calcium?
> I know it's added to dairy milk, that's why I switched to semi skimmed years ago.


Easy to get from dark green leafy veg, beans, almonds - you just have to make sure you eat a good combination of foods throughout the day.

Lots of non-dairy products are fortified too, as is bread. Apart from Oat milk in my coffee, i dont use any of those though.

Ive developed an intolerance to dairy, which is why im having to cut it out. Its not so bad that i cant consume any though.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Cully said:


> Same for me with IBS, it goes together with my fibromyalgia which I must get under control because it's wrecking my life at the moment and I've tried just about everything else.
> I believe it can be made with goats milk too which is lactose free, and oat milk, which I love with porridge.





Nonnie said:


> Have a read up of making it with coconut water (not coconut milk) - its meant to have the greatest benefits out of all the kefirs.
> 
> Harder to make though. My next lot im going to try with coconut milk as im trying to reduce my dairy to nothing.


You can make Kefir with water .....

https://happykombucha.co.uk/collect...gxG9eRnwo9Y4Ssd_u_2xQZZ3vNS70KOxoCY3kQAvD_BwE

https://www.olddairykitchen.co.uk/our-recipes/water-kefir

Instead of having to add the "exotic ingredients required for Kimchi you could just make fermented vegetables like they do in Europe.

https://www.thekitchn.com/recipe-lactofermented-mixed-pickles-recipes-from-the-kitchn-194011

I don't make either because a wide selection of Kefir and fermented vegetables are readily available in any supermarket in Hungary.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

This thread is very interesting. Been thing of trying to make kimchi or sauerkraut. Also get ibs.

I make my own yoghurt and tried kefir milk as a starter. Each subsequent batch got stronger and stronger. Not sure if this is good but I went back to yoghurt as kefir starter became too strong. Perhaps I should have stuck with it.
Is kefir as nutritious when made as yogurt?


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## teddylion (Oct 16, 2019)

I think kefir has more strains of probiotics than yogurt so is more potent in this respect.

By too strong, do you mean the kefir was a bit sour? You can experiment and control the taste to a certain extent. I find the longer it's left to ferment (and the warmer the weather) the more sour the kefir is. The grains multiply quickly so you can also keep the sourness down by discarding some grains now and then, or even put the kefir in the fridge to slow it down. I find second fermentation often makes it a bit milder and more creamy.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

teddylion said:


> I think kefir has more strains of probiotics than yogurt so is more potent in this respect.
> 
> By too strong, do you mean the kefir was a bit sour? You can experiment and control the taste to a certain extent. I find the longer it's left to ferment (and the warmer the weather) the more sour the kefir is. The grains multiply quickly so you can also keep the sourness down by discarding some grains now and then, or even put the kefir in the fridge to slow it down. I find second fermentation often makes it a bit milder and more creamy.


I used kefir milk not grains to make yoghurt and wondered if its as nutritious? 
The first few batches were fine. Perhaps as it gets stronger I could use less starter or cut fermenting time. 
I don't like milk to drink and struggled with kefir milk. I'm fine with yoghurt and it would be a great compromise.


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## teddylion (Oct 16, 2019)

Ah right, haven't heard of that before! As you're not heating the kefir to make yoghurt, I'm sure it would be just as good


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks. There’s a lot more info on the Internet now. You can also buy kefir yoghurt. Last time I looked there was nothing.

Kimchi next


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

They sound like cats names. I thought this was going to be a thread about cats :Hilarious


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## teddylion (Oct 16, 2019)

That made me laugh!


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

kimthecat said:


> They sound like cats names. I thought this was going to be a thread about cats :Hilarious


Well if anyone's looking to name 2 new furry family members, look no further.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Cully said:


> Well if anyone's looking to name 2 new furry family members, look no further.


I seriously would, they're great names 
Did you get anywhere with the kimchi research?


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

kimthecat said:


> They sound like cats names. I thought this was going to be a thread about cats :Hilarious


So did I


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I seriously would, they're great names
> Did you get anywhere with the kimchi research?


 Thanks, yes I read a few things but I haven't had time to go into it that much. I'm not even sure now if it's right for me.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Cully said:


> Thanks, yes I read a few things but I haven't had time to go into it that much. I'm not even sure now if it's right for me.


 Funnily enough, I came to the same conclusion. I looked into sauerkraut a few times but I don't like cabbage
Red cabbages is a possibility.
Kimchi seems a lot more faff for a few extra veg, plus I'd probably make a faulty batch and have to start again.

I may give kefir yoghurt a try but if it doesn't behave I'll stick to my usual homemade yoghurt.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Rather than buying yoghourt or Kefir, I've started buying Skyr which isn't as sour as the others

Well worth trying if you can buy it in the UK.

https://izlandiimpulzusokk.blog.hu/2020/04/24/skyr_az_izlandi_joghurt


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Magyarmum said:


> Rather than buying yoghourt or Kefir, I've started buying Skyr which isn't as sour as the others
> 
> Well worth trying if you can buy it in the UK.
> 
> https://izlandiimpulzusokk.blog.hu/2020/04/24/skyr_az_izlandi_joghurt


But does it have all the gut friendly bacteria you get with kefir? That's the reason I want to eat it to try and get my gut back to normal.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Magyarmum said:


> Rather than buying yoghourt or Kefir, I've started buying Skyr which isn't as sour as the others
> 
> Well worth trying if you can buy it in the UK.
> https://izlandiimpulzusokk.blog.hu/2020/04/24/skyr_az_izlandi_joghurt





Cully said:


> But does it have all the gut friendly bacteria you get with kefir? That's the reason I want to eat it to try and get my gut back to normal.


That's food for thought and skyr is sold here.
Unfortunately quick google found skyr bacteria same as yogurt. Kefir is different strains.
I'll have to cope with sour to get the extra benefit.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Cully said:


> But does it have all the gut friendly bacteria you get with kefir? That's the reason I want to eat it to try and get my gut back to normal.


I just have kefir or Skyr for maintenance. After having a perforated stomach ulcer and being told i'd have to take proton pump inhibitors for the rest of my life, I decided to take matters into my own hands. To cut the story short, I had the test for H Pylori which came out positive. After a course of antibiotics to clear that up, I put myself on a 3 month course of Protexin Probiotics whilst weaning myself off the PPI's.

And I gave up eating meat and fish, but not cheese, butter or eggs, although I only eat a limited amount. I haven't had any problems for over 4 years.

https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/h-pylori-helicobacter-pylori

*What Is H. pylori?*


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

I had h pylori too after having a camera down, before they realised that stomach acids weren't capable of killing 'all' bugs.
A lot of people caught it that way.
Since then they now sterilise the camera tube properly.
I had two types of antibiotics to get rid of it, which probably killed off my good gut bacteria and why I've suffered with IBS for years.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

I still don't know how much Kefir I should. be consuming. I'm still trying the Yeo valley, and Onken before seeing if I'm going to make it myself.
So, any idea how much I should have per portion from a 350gm tub please?


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Cully said:


> I still don't know how much Kefir I should. be consuming. I'm still trying the Yeo valley, and Onken before seeing if I'm going to make it myself.
> So, any idea how much I should have per portion from a 350gm tub please?


Quick google found this
https://www.livekefircompany.co.uk/how-much-kefir-should-you-drink/
Hope it helps


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Quick google found this
> https://www.livekefircompany.co.uk/how-much-kefir-should-you-drink/
> Hope it helps


Thanks, that was a useful guideline. I reckon if I have 50 to 100 mil to start with and get no side effects I should be ok.
Great, I know what I'm having tomorrow morning now.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

The thing I don't understand is how the good bacteria survives it's journey through a stomach full of acid strong enough to see off most bugs!!


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Cully said:


> The thing I don't understand is how the good bacteria survives it's journey through a stomach full of acid strong enough to see off most bugs!!


Found this https://www.optibacprobiotics.com/u...how-probiotics-survive-stomach-acid-digestion
I get bogged down with research but I do believe they help to boost gut health especially if it has been compromised.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Found this https://www.optibacprobiotics.com/u...how-probiotics-survive-stomach-acid-digestion
> I get bogged down with research but I do believe they help to boost gut health especially if it has been compromised.


Thank you. I had a quick look but such a lot goes right over my head. It seems all about promoting supplements over yogurt/kefir type products, although had some very useful info too, which leaves me feeling more confident that kefir is right for me. Only time will tell. Definitely worth a read.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Cully said:


> Thank you. I had a quick look but such a lot goes right over my head. It seems all about promoting supplements over yogurt/kefir type products, although had some very useful info too, which leaves me feeling more confident that kefir is right for me. Only time will tell. Definitely worth a read.


Snap! I didn't read as far as you
Try it and see.
I enjoy eating and making yoghurt. I'll try it with kefir again for extra bacteria. May be I can stop it getting so sour or get used to it. If not - back to normal yoghurt.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Snap! I didn't read as far as you
> Try it and see.
> I enjoy eating and making yoghurt. I'll try it with kefir again for extra bacteria. May be I can stop it getting so sour or get used to it. If not - back to normal yoghurt.


Would adding fruit make it less sour? Or maybe using something instead of dairy milk. I'm enjoying the Yeo Valley blueberry kefir. Bit of a nuisance having to eat it before brekkie though. It says eating it first thing, when the stomach acid is weakest, gives the good bacteria the best chance of survival. Just a case of getting into the habit I expect.
Sooo........many different bacteria though, all with scary sounding names!!:Nailbiting


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Cully said:


> Would adding fruit make it less sour? Or maybe using something instead of dairy milk. I'm enjoying the Yeo Valley blueberry kefir. Bit of a nuisance having to eat it before brekkie though. It says eating it first thing, when the stomach acid is weakest, gives the good bacteria the best chance of survival. Just a case of getting into the habit I expect.
> Sooo........many different bacteria though, all with scary sounding names!!:Nailbiting


I have mine with fruit for breakfast everyday. 
Yogurt tastes the same however many times I use the present batch to start the next. Made with kefir it gets stronger every time until it's almost fizzy because of the different bacteria. 
I'm going to try shorter fermenting time and letting it breathe through the process. 
You could make yoghurt easily from a bit of your Yeo valley kefir


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Mum2Heidi said:


> You could make yoghurt easily from a bit of your Yeo valley kefir


Hm, I might come back to you about that






.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Cully said:


> Hm, I might come back to you about that
> View attachment 474346
> .


You'll be surprised how easy it is. You don't need any special equipment and it's a huge saving.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Mum2Heidi said:


> You could make yoghurt easily from a bit of your Yeo valley kefir


How much kefir would you suggest for half a pint of milk?
Just warm up the milk, add kefir cover and leave??


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

SbanR said:


> How much kefir would you suggest for half a pint of milk?
> Just warm up the milk, add kefir cover and leave??


I boil the milk first. The slower it boils the thicker the yoghurt. 
Cool to a just warm when you put your finger in. Too hot kills bacteria, cold won't ferment.
Add approx teaspoon kefir yoghurt/milk to 300ml milk stir gently. Put on lid (I use old honey jars), place in pan of hand hot water with a lid, wrap in towels overnight.
I make 2 or 3 jars at a time.
You can also use oven or slow cooker


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I boil the milk first. The slower it boils the thicker the yoghurt.
> Cool to a just warm when you put your finger in. Too hot kills bacteria, cold won't ferment.
> Add approx teaspoon kefir yoghurt/milk to 300ml milk stir gently. Put on lid (I use old honey jars), place in pan of hand hot water with a lid, wrap in towels overnight.
> I make 2 or 3 jars at a time.
> You can also use oven or slow cooker


That's a good idea with the slow cooker. Makes it more certain as opposed to just mixing the two and leaving it to stand at room temperature (I've been watching a few utube clips)


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

SbanR said:


> That's a good idea with the slow cooker. Makes it more certain as opposed to just mixing the two and leaving it to stand at room temperature (I've been watching a few utube clips)


That's the best way. Do a bit of research and do what you feel works best for you. It's really easy and so much cheaper if you intend using a lot.
Just be careful not to have it too hot. To ferment it needs consistent warmth. Too hot will kill the bacteria.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Mum2Heidi said:


> That's the best way. Do a bit of research and do what you feel works best for you. It's really easy and so much cheaper if you intend using a lot.
> Just be careful not to have it too hot. To ferment it needs consistent warmth. Too hot will kill the bacteria.


The problem is that my slow cooker has only 2 settings - high or low and I fear even the low might be too hot.

Years ago I did water kefir. Did brilliantly through summer and autumn but the house temperature fell too low overnight in the winter. The scoby didn't like that


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

SbanR said:


> The problem is that my slow cooker has only 2 settings - high or low and I fear even the low might be too hot.
> 
> Years ago I did water kefir. Did brilliantly through summer and autumn but the house temperature fell too low overnight in the winter. The scoby didn't like that


Perhaps it worth putting in some water and test it. If it gets too hot you could try turning it off and check how long it holds it's temperature. Failing that, pop them in hot water in the crock pot and wrap it in towels to retain the heat.

I've always made yoghurt. Never tried anything with kefir grains. 
Had a look at kombucha tea but can't get beyond mouldy tea thoughts.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Perhaps it worth putting in some water and test it. If it gets too hot you could try turning it off and check how long it holds it's temperature. Failing that, pop them in hot water in the crock pot and wrap it in towels to retain the heat.
> 
> I've always made yoghurt. Never tried anything with kefir grains.
> Had a look at kombucha tea but can't get beyond mouldy tea thoughts.


I'm having a go at oat milk yogurt


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> I'm having a go at oat milk yogurt


Any success with it?


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> Any success with it?


Nope, but then I've never succeeded in making yogurt that way.
I'm strongly inclined to get some kefir grains. I love kefir with porridge


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

SbanR said:


> Nope, but then I've never succeeded in making yogurt that way.
> I'm strongly inclined to get some kefir grains. I love kefir with porridge


Oh that's a shame.
I've thought about getting some but yoghurt made from kefir milk must retain most of the bacteria. So it's pointless.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I tried making yoghurt with coconut milk, must have watched every video going, but never got it to work. I adore coconut yoghurt!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

SusieRainbow said:


> I tried making yoghurt with coconut milk, must have watched every video going, but never got it to work. I adore coconut yoghurt!


Haha, shall we start an exclusive club of yogurt maker failures


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Oh that's a shame.
> I've thought about getting some but yoghurt made from kefir milk must retain most of the bacteria. So it's pointless.


From what I've read, and I'm new to this so may be wrong, but Kefir has very many more strains of bacteria than yogurt. So if you're going down the gut health path, Kefir is better.
And i believe fermenting yogurt needs a hotter temperature than Kefir, so making yogurt with Kefir milk would be too warm and kill off the bacteria specific to Kefir. So would be a waste of time.
As I say, I may be wrong. Someone please tell me if I've got it wrong.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Nope, but then I've never succeeded in making yogurt that way.
> I'm strongly inclined to get some kefir grains. I love kefir with porridge


I love the 'overnight' porridge made with oat milk. So you could make it with Kefir milk as you don't cook the porridge oats.
Sounds delicious.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SusieRainbow said:


> I tried making yoghurt with coconut milk, must have watched every video going, but never got it to work. I adore coconut yoghurt!


I love coconut milk but it is a bit watery. I used it to make porridge but missed the creaminess of 'milk'.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Haha, shall we start an exclusive club of yogurt maker failures


Maybe call ourselves The Failed Yogurteers!.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Cully said:


> From what I've read, and I'm new to this so may be wrong, but Kefir has very many more strains of bacteria than yogurt. So if you're going down the gut health path, Kefir is better.
> And i believe fermenting yogurt needs a hotter temperature than Kefir, so making yogurt with Kefir milk would be too warm and kill off the bacteria specific to Kefir. So would be a waste of time.
> As I say, I may be wrong. Someone please tell me if I've got it wrong.


I wrote a load of waffle regarding the process and how different yoghurt made from kefir milk is and then the lights came on!! you can buy kefir yoghurt and a quick google shows it contains the same amount of bacteria as kefir milk - yay!!. Mystery solved. Thank you


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> I love the 'overnight' porridge made with oat milk. So you could make it with Kefir milk as you don't cook the porridge oats.
> Sounds delicious.


I Do cook my porridge
I soak it overnight in a water and oat milk mix. Next morning cook in the slow cooker on low ( have today's brunch cooking atm); this gives a very creamy texture. I add a topping of kefir when the porridge is in the bowl and ready to eat



Cully said:


> I love coconut milk but it is a bit watery. I used it to make porridge but missed the creaminess of 'milk'.


"Proper" fresh made coconut milk is very creamy, similar to single cream imo


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Just an update as I started this thread. I began having shop bought Kefir about 5 or 6 weeks ago and have definitely noticed a difference. I don't get nearly as much bloating now or abdo discomfort, and I'm sure my belly is flatter too. Definitely an improvement with my IBS symptoms.
I did think about making my own but I'd make a mess of it so maybe it's something for the future.
Thanks to everyone who left comments and links.Yay!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Nonnie said:


> Have a read up of making it with coconut water (not coconut milk) - its meant to have the greatest benefits out of all the kefirs.
> 
> Harder to make though. My next lot im going to try with coconut milk as im trying to reduce my dairy to nothing.


Did you succeed with the coconut milk?


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

I have a question.
If Kefir is eaten to increase good gut bacteria which may have been depleted for whatever reason, how long does it take to boost good bacteria to a beneficial level?
I've been having Kefir daily for about 7 weeks so am presuming I should have boosted the good bacteria numbers by now. So how often do I need to eat Kefir to maintain that level?


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> I have a question.
> If Kefir is eaten to increase good gut bacteria which may have been depleted for whatever reason, how long does it take to boost good bacteria to a beneficial level?
> I've been having Kefir daily for about 7 weeks so am presuming I should have boosted the good bacteria numbers by now. So how often do I need to eat Kefir to maintain that level?


I would think for as long as you want to maintain those levels. I *think* the bacteria get excreted with the poo


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> I would think for as long as you want to maintain those levels. I *think* the bacteria get excreted with the poo


Well that was my thinking too until I began to over think! 
Presumably there are loads of good bacteria there in the first place, but my understanding is that things(??) happen to deplete them, one of which we _know_ is taking antibiotics.
So if you kick start the numbers of good bacteria again by having kefir for a few weeks, as I am doing, why would the levels deplete again just by going to the loo? I mean, surely the remaining good stuff continues to replicate providing it doesn't encounter anything to destroy it like AB's. 
Just wondering whether if I'm going to need to keep on with the kefir for good, then should I invest in Yeo Valley's shares?


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> Well that was my thinking too until I began to over think!
> Presumably there are loads of good bacteria there in the first place, but my understanding is that things(??) happen to deplete them, one of which we _know_ is taking antibiotics.
> So if you kick start the numbers of good bacteria again by having kefir for a few weeks, as I am doing, why would the levels deplete again just by going to the loo? I mean, surely the remaining good stuff continues to replicate providing it doesn't encounter anything to destroy it like AB's.
> Just wondering whether if I'm going to need to keep on with the kefir for good, then should I invest in Yeo Valley's shares?


Definitely over thinking
I do know when I bought probiotic capsules the directions were take daily.
I remember reading an article where it said the bacteria *survived/lasted"? 36 hours in the gut.

You also can't assume you have a decent amount of good bacteria to start with. That would depend on your diet. So you need a regular and varied diet of vegetables and fruit. Emphasis on the varied veg.

Ps. Buy those shares!


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Definitely over thinking
> I do know when I bought probiotic capsules the directions were take daily.
> I remember reading an article where it said the bacteria *survived/lasted"? 36 hours in the gut.
> 
> ...


I don't think there's much wrong with my diet apart from having to avoid a few things which play havoc with my IBS. I love fruit and veg though so no problems there.
Thanks for the info about how long the bacteria lasts. I'm amazed it survives at all considering it has to swim through a tsunami of stomach acid on it's travels:Yuck.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I’ve been having home made yogurt every day for years.
As you know I tried making kefir yogurt recently. Instead of making separate batches I combined natural yogurt with kefir for a starter. So technically have the benefit of both in one jar. Not sure if that’s how it works.
As long as I feel well I keep going. Making my own saves a fortune.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

I saw in the Range they have EasiYo Fresh Yoghurt starter packs, and also Kilner Yoghurt making set. Has anyone tried either of these? I'm buying a lot of yoghurt now so maybe time to start making my own.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> I saw in the Range they have EasiYo Fresh Yoghurt starter packs, and also Kilner Yoghurt making set. Has anyone tried either of these? I'm buying a lot of yoghurt now so maybe time to start making my own.


Why don't you make your own kefir? It's dead easy


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Why don't you make your own kefir? It's dead easy


I don't know. I thought maybe yoghurt would be easier. Isn't Kefir a bit of a faff with getting the temperature right?


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Cully said:


> I saw in the Range they have EasiYo Fresh Yoghurt starter packs, and also Kilner Yoghurt making set. Has anyone tried either of these? I'm buying a lot of yoghurt now so maybe time to start making my own.


I used to use the EasiYo Yoghurt maker a lot but it does work out pricy and contain a lot of additives , lovely as they are. We now by ZeroYoghurt, Greek Style and flavour it ourselves. The 500ml tubs are often on offer.
Can't help you with Kefir I'm afraid.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SusieRainbow said:


> I used to use the EasiYo Yoghurt maker a lot but it does work out pricy and contain a lot of additives , lovely as they are. We now by ZeroYoghurt, Greek Style and flavour it ourselves. The 500ml tubs are often on offer.
> Can't help you with Kefir I'm afraid.


I really like the Tesco Greek Style yogurt with coconut. I was hoping to replicate that.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Cully said:


> I really like the Tesco Greek Style yogurt with coconut. I was hoping to replicate that.


I tried everything to make a real coconut yoghurt, never succeeded, so we buy it now. We love it specially with a bowl of fresh raspberries!:Greedy:Hungry


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SusieRainbow said:


> I tried everything to make a real coconut yoghurt, never succeeded, so we buy it now. We love it specially with a bowl of fresh raspberries!:Greedy:Hungry


This has just got coconut bits in but tastes really lovely, especially if I add a few blackberries or strawberries. 
I'd like to try using a bit of shop bought yoghurt as a starter to make my own, but not confident it will work. It's getting expensive when I could quite easily eat a whole big tub a day.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> I don't know. I thought maybe yoghurt would be easier. Isn't Kefir a bit of a faff with getting the temperature right?


Quite the opposite
It's the yogurt that's a faff, needing to get it warm enough.
I just have mine in an ordinary jam jar and it stands in my (warm) sitting room. Cultures in a day. I then leave it in the fridge to chill. Simples!
It's very mild, has a light fizz to it. Especially yummy when I make it into a kefir smoothie. I mix in a little stewed plum or smoothie


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Quite the opposite
> It's the yogurt that's a faff, needing to get it warm enough.
> I just have mine in an ordinary jam jar and it stands in my (warm) sitting room. Cultures in a day. I then leave it in the fridge to chill. Simples!
> It's very mild, has a light fizz to it. Especially yummy when I make it into a kefir smoothie. I mix in a little stewed plum or smoothie


You don't know a 'Kefir for Dummies' recipe I could try do you?. I've seen a few but they all seem to be different methods and I'm confused (it's my age!!)


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

My kefir yoghurt making is still going well. (Kefir is too runny for me)
Unlike last time when it got way too strong this time I adjusted the fermenting time. Down to 3 hours now"
Really creamy. It’s lush.
Highly recommend.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> You don't know a 'Kefir for Dummies' recipe I could try do you?. I've seen a few but they all seem to be different methods and I'm confused (it's my age!!)


Cully I bought kefir grains from the Live Kefir Company. Excellent quality grains, very vigorous.
Comes with instructions


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Cully I bought kefir grains from the Live Kefir Company. Excellent quality grains, very vigorous.
> Comes with instructions


Thanks v much. I'll try and source some grains. Looking at the list of items needed I only have a wooden spoon. Must get shopping.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> Thanks v much. I'll try and source some grains. Looking at the list of items needed I only have a wooden spoon. Must get shopping.


No need for a wooden spoon Cully. An ordinary metal spoon is fine, just don't leave it standing too long in the kefir (I think that'll degrade the metal, or something)


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Oops, sorry @Cully . Misread your post! thought you needed to get a wooden spoon.
What do you need? Honestly, any glass bottle will do. I use the metal lid that comes with the bottle.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

@Cully yesterday's batch, ready this morning


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Oops, sorry @Cully . Misread your post! thought you needed to get a wooden spoon.
> What do you need? Honestly, any glass bottle will do. I use the metal lid that comes with the bottle.


I'll have to have a sort through what I've already got. The only big jars are from pickled gherkins, so not sure about those. 
Liked your jar of 'marmalade'


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> I'll have to have a sort through what I've already got. The only big jars are from pickled gherkins, so not sure about those.
> Liked your jar of 'marmalade'


I do like that marmalade
Be creative! A large mug or glass , and for cover a square of kitchen towel kept in place by a spoon
Unless, of course, you're only using it as an excuse to pop over to The Range for a shopping spree


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> I do like that marmalade
> Be creative! A large mug or glass , and for cover a square of kitchen towel kept in place by a spoon
> Unless, of course, you're only using it as an excuse to pop over to The Range for a shopping spree


No scooter now so my popping anywhere days are over.  But you have sewn a seed.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> No scooter now so my popping anywhere days are over.  But you have sewn a seed.


Don't try to put the blame on me
That was your intention all along


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Don't try to put the blame on me
> That was your intention all along


My conscience won't allow me to go spending, but if I convince myself someone twisted my arm............mwahhaha!!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> My conscience won't allow me to go spending, but if I convince myself someone twisted my arm............mwahhaha!!


An contraire I've been telling you Not to go buying all the listed equipment!


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> An contraire I've been telling you Not to go buying all the listed equipment!


You've got a lot to answer for, encouraging me to spend money! I've done it, no going back, I've ordered those kefir grains you recommended.
I can get a clip top jar from the Range. I've got a sieve already, but the funnel I've got might not be wide enough, unless I want to spend about an hour standing watching it drip through very slowly. What diameter is the funnel you use? I've got a big jug but it's not polywhatsit. Can I use plastic?
What capacity is your 'marmalade' jar? 
The grains might be here by the weekend, yay! I've now got 4 big tubs of Yeo Valley kefir from Tesco to eat by then to make room in the fridge. Simples:Hungry.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> You've got a lot to answer for, encouraging me to spend money! I've done it, no going back, I've ordered those kefir grains you recommended.
> I can get a clip top jar from the Range. I've got a sieve already, but the funnel I've got might not be wide enough, unless I want to spend about an hour standing watching it drip through very slowly. What diameter is the funnel you use? I've got a big jug but it's not polywhatsit. Can I use plastic?
> What capacity is your 'marmalade' jar?
> The grains might be here by the weekend, yay! I've now got 4 big tubs of Yeo Valley kefir from Tesco to eat by then to make room in the fridge. Simples:Hungry.


Huh! No one forced you to do anything. And how much have you been spending on big tubs of kefir??

Funnel?????????
Never use one.
I just used to plonk my sieve (slightly bigger than a tea strainer) on my mug and tip the kefir into the sieve bit by bit, stirring with a spoon to assist the kefir through the mesh. Whole procedure took less than a minute

I have 3 jars.
One culturing the milk.
Second in the fridge with kefir "resting" and maturing overnight.
Third with kefir being consumed!

Capacity of the jar?
No idea. Just a normal lb jar

Something to warn you, which completely slipped my mind when I got my grains.
The grains will be stressed when they reach you and will take some time to settle ( like rehoming a rescue cat!). So although I had drinkable kefir from the start, it was watery. It took a week or so before the kefir thickened.

Have you watched any utube clips. Worth doing so if you haven't. You'll see how easy it is. The grains are pretty robust, there's no need to handle with kid gloves


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

This reminds me of setting up a sourdough starter which I did last Summer, we just buy sourdough bread now as it was such a faff!
I suppose once you get in a routine it becomes part of your routine, I might give it a try.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Huh! No one forced you to do anything. And how much have you been spending on big tubs of kefir??
> 
> Funnel?????????
> Never use one.
> ...


Three tubs each week of £1.50 Kefir and 3 £1 yogurt, all big. So no matter how much I spend on starting up I'll soon recoup it providing I get the hang of it.
I'll get a new sieve as the one I've got has sieved some pretty iffy stuff:Yuck. 
Treat the grains like a rescue cat. You mean they'll need a litter tray and a vet check? Blimey! 
I did read about needing to 'de-stress' the grains. I'll ask my postie to reassure them they're going to a nice home. Aw!
One thing about where to leave them while turning into Kefir is that the temperature in my kitchen really fluctuates during the day and there isn't anywhere else practical to leave it.
So any tips on how to keep it at the correct temp while culturing?
Oh and if I want to flavour it (I'm thinking vanilla ), could I add drops of essence and at what stage?
Yep, I plan to watch utube clips.
Thanks for the tips. It's ok reading info but more reassuring if you know someone who's actually done it. Yeh, I know it's only making flippin' yogurt but..........


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> Three tubs each week of £1.50 Kefir and 3 £1 yogurt, all big. So no matter how much I spend on starting up I'll soon recoup it providing I get the hang of it.
> I'll get a new sieve as the one I've got has sieved some pretty iffy stuff:Yuck.
> Treat the grains like a rescue cat. You mean they'll need a litter tray and a vet check? Blimey!
> I did read about needing to 'de-stress' the grains. I'll ask my postie to reassure them they're going to a nice home. Aw!
> ...


I repeat. *The grains are Robust* and will be ok with temperature fluctuations.
I keep mine in my sitting room as it's the warmest room and usually somewhere between 19-21C, when I'm in. Overnight the temp this morning had dropped to 16C.
So the temp fluctuations in your kitchen won't harm your grains but you won't get a regular set time period in which the kefir will be ready. You'll have to keep a closer eye on it than I do mine.

Can't help you with the essence flavouring as I don't use that. I've only ever used stewed fruit or bought smoothie. I think though it's best to add whatever flavouring just before drinking, so only a portion and not the whole batch.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Grains arrived today, earlier than expected, so put them in a jar with the milk.
Made a mistake though as I've used all 10g instead of just 5g ( forgot I ordered 10g) and just emptied the bag, oops!
I found a useful website:- www.yemoos.com
It tells you how to make Kefir with different milks etc, and about flavouring.
Lots of other useful stuff too like making cream cheese.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> Grains arrived today, earlier than expected, so put them in a jar with the milk.
> Made a mistake though as I've used all 10g instead of just 5g ( forgot I ordered 10g) and just emptied the bag, oops!
> I found a useful website:- www.yemoos.com
> It tells you how to make Kefir with different milks etc, and about flavouring.
> Lots of other useful stuff too like making cream cheese.


Why was it a mistake to empty the whole lot into a jug of milk Cully?
Nothing wrong with making the kefir in a jug.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Why was it a mistake to empty the whole lot into a jug of milk Cully?
> Nothing wrong with making the kefir in a jug.


Because I only intended to use half the grains as the instructions said that amount. But I forgot I'd ordered 10g and put them all in the jar (not jug). I was expecting to get 2 bags of 5g I suppose and not 1 bag of 10g.
Anyway I emptied the lot into about 180mls of whole milk and left it on the side covered with kitchen roll and a hairband and hoped for the best.
One thing I've found from doing a bit of reading and utube watching is that everyone has their own way of making it. Different amounts of grains to milk etc, and so many different results. Its a bit confusing.
What I want to achieve is kefir which is faiirly thick and not too sour.
I looked this morning and the grains had grown but are floating, and the milk is still, well, milk.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> Because I only intended to use half the grains as the instructions said that amount. But I forgot I'd ordered 10g and put them all in the jar (not jug). I was expecting to get 2 bags of 5g I suppose and not 1 bag of 10g.
> Anyway I emptied the lot into about 180mls of whole milk and left it on the side covered with kitchen roll and a hairband and hoped for the best.
> One thing I've found from doing a bit of reading and utube watching is that everyone has their own way of making it. Different amounts of grains to milk etc, and so many different results. Its a bit confusing.
> What I want to achieve is kefir which is faiirly thick and not too sour.
> I looked this morning and the grains had grown but are floating, and the milk is still, well, milk.


Haha, oops:Bear. My excuse, it was rather late and I was about to go to bed

You've forgotten already I did warn you that mine stayed watery for daaaays before I got thick kefir.
What were you planning to do with the other 5gms?
As you can't rely on thickness to warn you that the kefir is ready, taste it! If it doesn't have the sweetness of milk I'd transfer the grains to some fresh milk.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Haha, oops:Bear. My excuse, it was rather late and I was about to go to bed
> 
> You've forgotten already I did warn you that mine stayed watery for daaaays before I got thick kefir.
> What were you planning to do with the other 5gms?
> As you can't rely on thickness to warn you that the kefir is ready, taste it! If it doesn't have the sweetness of milk I'd transfer the grains to some fresh milk.


I suppose I was thinking that if I messed up I would have some spare grains to start again. Maybe I could have put them in the freezer for a while. Or give them to Misty and Sooty.
I'm a bit worried about the amount of milk my babies are sitting in. Should I be?






Aren't they sweet, aw........


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> I suppose I was thinking that if I messed up I would have some spare grains to start again. Maybe I could have put them in the freezer for a while. Or give them to Misty and Sooty.
> I'm a bit worried about the amount of milk my babies are sitting in. Should I be?
> View attachment 478890
> Aren't they sweet, aw........


Possibly. Have a taste.
I feed the surplus grains to Jessie. Ollie too, if I have any to spare but he generally gets a drop of kefir


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Possibly. Have a taste.
> I feed the surplus grains to Jessie. Ollie too, if I have any to spare but he generally gets a drop of kefir


:Yuck......a tad sour! I've strained it and got about 1.5 tablespoons of grains, so they have grown. So I put them in a clean jar with some fresh milk and left them on the side. I put the strained liquid in another jar and put in the fridge. Have I done the right thing do you think? 
I'd love to be able to feed the spare eventually) to the cats but Moo turns her nose up at yoghurty stuff, in fact _any_ milk. Sooty might though.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> :Yuck......a tad sour! I've strained it and got about 1.5 tablespoons of grains, so they have grown. So I put them in a clean jar with some fresh milk and left them on the side. I put the strained liquid in another jar and put in the fridge. Have I done the right thing do you think?
> I'd love to be able to feed the spare eventually) to the cats but Moo turns her nose up at yoghurty stuff, in fact _any_ milk. Sooty might though.


I *think* it might be because there's not enough milk and it's overfermented.
You'll need to either:
Remove some grains
Or
Add more milk
Or
Check on it more frequently so you catch it before it gets too sour.

I put the grains on Jessie's food and she eats it without noticing.
Ollie though, I hide the grains/kefir under a blob of lick-e-lix and it gets eaten no problem.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> I *think* it might be because there's not enough milk and it's overfermented.
> You'll need to either:
> Remove some grains
> Or
> ...


Thanks,I'll keep checking it for any changes, then when I strain it tomorrow I'll taste it again and decide after. I put extra milk in today thinking it was the right thing to do as the grains had grown but maybe I should have just cut down the number.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> Thanks,I'll keep checking it for any changes, then when I strain it tomorrow I'll taste it again and decide after. I put extra milk in today thinking it was the right thing to do as the grains had grown but maybe I should have just cut down the number.


You're right to add more milk. I omitted a fourth option - do All of the above three!
You have a heck of a lot of grains!!!
If you refer back to that link you posted, they gave a recipe of 0.5 - 1 teaspoon grains to 250mls milk.
I found LK's ratio of grain to milk way out and very soon increased the amount of milk I fermented.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> You're right to add more milk. I omitted a fourth option - do All of the above three!
> You have a heck of a lot of grains!!!
> If you refer back to that link you posted, they gave a recipe of 0.5 - 1 teaspoon grains to 250mls milk.
> I found LK's ratio of grain to milk way out and very soon increased the amount of milk I fermented.


I've just looked at the video on yemoos again and it says 0.5-1 *tablespoon o*f grains to 1 cup/250 mls of milk. Not teaspoon. Just thought I'd let you know in case you were considering following the method.
I looked at the instructions about making your 1st batch and found it quite reassuring as it goes into quite a lot of detail about how it should look and taste. Although it differs a bit from the Living Kefir instructions slightly.
Anyway, I feel a bit more confident now I know how it's expected to taste.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> I've just looked at the video on yemoos again and it says 0.5-1 *tablespoon o*f grains to 1 cup/250 mls of milk. Not teaspoon. Just thought I'd let you know in case you were considering following the method.
> I looked at the instructions about making your 1st batch and found it quite reassuring as it goes into quite a lot of detail about how it should look and taste. Although it differs a bit from the Living Kefir instructions slightly.
> Anyway, I feel a bit more confident now I know how it's expected to taste.


Ok we'll agree to differ


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Ok we'll agree to differ


What milk do you recommend? I bought some organic whole milk from M&S which says it's pastuerized and homogenised.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> What milk do you recommend? I bought some organic whole milk from M&S which says it's pastuerized and homogenised.


I think all milk sold in shops now is pasteurised and homogenised. There's only a small number of dairies that sell raw; you'll need a car to get to your nearest one.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> I think all milk sold in shops now is pasteurised and homogenised. There's only a small number of dairies that sell raw; you'll need a car to get to your nearest one.


Thanks. M&S it is then as it's local. Don't expect I'll get any better at Tesco.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Today I had the first Kefir that was palatable but it is still too liquid and can only be drunk, can't use a spoon.. Will it always be like this of is there anything I can do to make it thicker and creamy?
This batch was from about 5gms grains in 250ml whole milk left out for 34 hrs. Whey had started to form in the middle and the top was thickening slightly. No setting.
I strained it and placed Kefir in fridge overnight. This morning it was showing a mid line of whey again. Drank it but didn't enjoy.
Received these fresh grains last Friday and have been activating since then.
Any suggestions?


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Sounds like your grains are finally starting to settle in. The kefir should start tasting better now. Shouldn't be too many days before it thickens up.
But you won't get a strong set like yogurt. If you read various sites, kefir is often described as having a consistency similar to buttermilk. If you leave the kefir sitting at room temperature for a further day, it will continue to ferment and give you a soft set above a layer of whey. It will taste stronger too.
Do you know the temperature fluctuations in your kitchen? ( Minimum/maximum?)


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

Thanks for replying. Yes it's only been 5 days since I activated the grains so maybe I'm expecting too much too soon.
When you say if I leave it for another day it will taste stronger too, what do you mean by stronger as I'm not sure what to expect. I've been so used to the shop bought kefir.
As for temperature, well as this is only a tiny studio flat and you go through the living area into the kitchen, which is also very small. So apart from when I'm using the oven I'd say the ambient temp is about the same for both rooms, and my thermostat reads 22-24C mostly.
I'm a bit bothered about piling on the pounds using whole milk as I always have semi.
I understand about getting a thicker result if you pour off the whey but not sure how to separate it. There doesn't seem to be much whey at the moment, just a line around the middle of the jar and I strain the whole lot through a sieve. That goes in a clean jar in the fridge, and the grains put in a jar with fresh milk for another batch.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

I asked about temperature as I remember you mentioned temp fluctuations but at 22-24C I would expect your kefir to be ready <24 hours, not 34 hours!
Something isn't right, I don't think.

It's not sitting in direct sunlight I hope. And you rinse your bottles out thoroughly to remove all trace of washing up liquid.
Can't think of any other reason why your grains are so slow to settle or ferment the milk.

Do Not use semi-skimmed!
I tried one batch and it was :Spitoutdummy. Very thin and watery and tasted:Wtf

That's the problem with leaving it till you achieve a set. You can, carefully, spoon off some of the set kefir but eventually the whey will flow in and mix with the kefir.
I do like it as a thick liquid, so after straining the kefir I leave it for a few hours at room temperature to thicken a little before placing in the fridge.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> I asked about temperature as I remember you mentioned temp fluctuations but at 22-24C I would expect your kefir to be ready <24 hours, not 34 hours!
> Something isn't right, I don't think.
> 
> It's not sitting in direct sunlight I hope. And you rinse your bottles out thoroughly to remove all trace of washing up liquid.
> ...


Definitely not in direct sunlight. The jar sits on my breadbin with a box of crispbread in front of it to shade from the sun. Jars, sieve, jug and spoons etc are all washed and rinsed and I only use organic whole milk.
This morning I checked the batch I was fermenting yesterday and it tasted better, a bit like plain yoghurt. It was milk at the bottom, pockets of whey in the middle and the top was a bit like whipped egg white but thicker. I poured it thru a sieve, separated the grains and put them in a fresh jar to start another batch, then put the thicker top bit into a clean pot with a lid and put in the fridge. There's not very much though, about 2 tblspns.
The reason I didn't keep the milk that was at the bottom is because I read if they whey is mixed with the kefir it will be runny, but if your pour away some of the whey and mix the remains it will be thicker. Perhaps I shouldn't have thrown all the milk away!!!!! I've probably done it all wrong:Arghh.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

If you mix the whey with the rest of the kefir, yes it'll thin it down.
On the other hand the whey is full of nutrients. Can you use it in your cooking?
But it sounds like your grains are bedding in and should be giving you tastier kefir day by day.

I wondered too this morning if perhaps you overfermented the kefir?(going back to that 34 hour batch).
If you're still doing it at 5g grain to 250ml milk, try doing it for just 24 hours. Then strain it and allow to stand for a few hours more at room temperature before placing in the fridge.
Let me know how you get on with this.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> If you mix the whey with the rest of the kefir, yes it'll thin it down.
> On the other hand the whey is full of nutrients. Can you use it in your cooking?
> But it sounds like your grains are bedding in and should be giving you tastier kefir day by day.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't mind mixing the whey with the kefir if I could use it to make my overnight porridge but not sure if it would taste ok as it is left in the fridge overnight mixed with oats.
I'll do as you suggest and let you know. Thanks.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

@SbanR , Ok, this is a fresh batch after
24 hrs at room temp. Approx 5gm in 250ml milk.








And this is after it's been strained and left for another 6 hrs at room temp then left in fridge overnight.















Mostly milk but you can see it's slightly thicker.
What do you think?


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> @SbanR , Ok, this is a fresh batch after
> 24 hrs at room temp. Approx 5gm in 250ml milk.
> View attachment 479249
> 
> ...


Looks ok but difficult to really tell from photos.
As long as it progresses to thicken with each batch and tastes better, it's getting there. 
The description of being similar in consistency to buttermilk is very accurate, so bare that in mind.


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## Cully (May 16, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Looks ok but difficult to really tell from photos.
> As long as it progresses to thicken with each batch and tastes better, it's getting there.
> The description of being similar in consistency to buttermilk is very accurate, so bare that in mind.


Yes I know it's hard to tell from photos really, I just wondered how it compares with your fresh batches.
No idea what buttermilk looks like I'm afraid.
Thanks.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Cully said:


> Yes I know it's hard to tell from photos really, I just wondered how it compares with your fresh batches.
> No idea what buttermilk looks like I'm afraid.
> Thanks.


It doesn't because my grains have settled in and give me thick kefir which I thicken further by leaving it out for a few hours more.
But if you've bought kefir ( drinking, not the yogurt) then that should give you an idea of its viscosity.


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