# Lightweight long line?



## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Is there such a thing as an almost weightless very long line (min 30ft)

Tilly and i have stagnated with the stop whistle. She stops immediately if she is quite far ahead but just slowly trotting along. I can sit her, throw an object (ball/dummy) out and, as long as it has landed before she sets off, i can stop her part way and recall her.

We have been stuck at this stage for about a year!

What i cannot do is throw a ball, set her off whilst it is in motion and then stop her.

If she was up to speed chasing something outside in an emergency situation she would not stop on the whistle.

Problem is, if i put my 50ft long line on her, she will stop every time because it is so heavy, she knows it's on. In fact, she wont get up to speed on it because she anticipates the stop.

How can i progress to being able to stop her when she is at speed chasing a moving target?

Tagging @Burrowzig because that is the standard we are aiming for here. 30mph to zero!


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2019)

I don't know how long it is but when we lived in the UK I purchased a long line for McKenzie which is quite thin rope and weighs practically nothing. I probably got it from somewhere like zooplus. I haven't used it for many years (I don't get on with long lines!) so would offer to send it to you but you could probably buy a new one for the cost of postage!


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I have no idea of its weight, but would a biothane (?) long line be suitable?


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> I don't know how long it is but when we lived in the UK I purchased a long line for McKenzie which is quite thin rope and weighs practically nothing.


Probably this one, which would be my suggestion too 
https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_collars_dog_leads/nylon_leads/special/98294

Similar ones also on ebay for roughly the same price


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2019)

picaresque said:


> Probably this one, which would be my suggestion too
> https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_collars_dog_leads/nylon_leads/special/98294
> 
> Similar ones also on ebay for roughly the same price


It's exactly that but MUCH thinner and lighter. I'll see if I can find it, although I did buy it about 8 years ago!

Edit: It's either this exact one or very similar https://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=484&pf_id=52518


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## Ian246 (Oct 27, 2018)

Fifty feet of para cord (various thicknesses are available)with a suitable clasp at the end to attach to the collar/harness? The thinner it is, the more easily it will get snagged. You could even buy guy line (for tents) - thin, some if it is very lightweight, and very strong, of course - but the stronger/lighter it is, the more expensive it is. Let me know, if you want to go that route and I can point you at some web sites, if you like.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

People used to suggest using a length of washing line for recall training (thinking of dog mags about fifteen years ago), suppose that would work also


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Ooh great suggestions! Thanks everyone! I do have a biothane @ForestWomble but it is weighty too. It is definitely the lightweight cord i need so tilly thinks she is off lead.

Thanks @Ian246 - i will try some of these 20 m ones first and, once she has perfected that, i might be looking for something longer. Cheers!


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

But late to the party (so bored today!), but for anyone else reading this, if the weight of the line is a concern make sure you get one which isn't made of an absorbent material. Doesn't matter how light the line is itself if the second you step into a field or onto a beach it turns into a sponge. That was our problem with the Heim cotton rope one.

You're probably sorted easily by now though


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Lol, i havent taken this any further at all yet! I havent been in training mode for a few weeks, as tilly has been not too bad off lead walking. So i have been enjoying just doing walks with her. However, i think when autumn hits, she will want to range further again so i will get to it at some point


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## CheddarS (Dec 13, 2011)

I have a round biothane for trailing and it is very light and strong...really good as not slippy and doesn't pick up water. Really pleased and is now my go to line. BiothaneBert is great as can customise.

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=biothane bert - collars and leads&epa=SEARCH_BOX


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## Woah (Dec 24, 2018)

I have a biothane long line which being waterproof I use when he goes swimming in the river or sea. It’s great for that and very lightweight and doesn’t snag or get in knots.
Only problem with it is there’s no handle so I made a couple of Knots in it halfway down and near end so I have something to get a grip on if he really pulls away.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I trained it without a long line, dogs were free. Never used a whistle for it, either. 
Starting at the beginning, I trained a stop when the dog was coming towards me, not too fast, by stepping in towards them, hand up like a traffic cop, saying stop - reward when they did, on the spot where they stopped. I started off using a different recall command when I was going to make them stop, so they'd be prepared for something other than a straight recall; however they soon caught on, and wouldn't even start! So I had to revert to 'come'.
Got that solid, and worked it up to when they were running towards me, and increased the distance. Rather than just say 'stop', I changed it to 'and stop' so by time the 'stop' part came out, they'd have the brakes on. At each new stage, I'd work with them individually, but having them all together, competing with each other to be the best and get the praise, I think helped a lot. And as soon as one of them had got it, the others could see the example. I think I started sending Kite out and stopping her with the pups on leads by me, using her to show them what I wanted. Flossie has always been quite cautious about getting things right, and is more driven to herd the others than play retrieve. Fly was the most difficult (as in everything).
Dogs were all accustomed to being in a wait when the toy was thrown - start with a lower value one rather than their favourite. I can't exactly remember how I did the next stage, but got the emergency stop without a toy really reliable, throwing it in every so often just to make walks/games more interesting, and it became reliable irrespective of direction, and I'd get them to do other things randomly too - downs, sits, twists, roll-overs, run through my legs, so they'd never know what was going to be next. Getting the 'stop' when going towards a moving target really is the last stage, and when the dog is hyped up on the chase, they are more reluctant to stop, or so focussed their ears and brain fail to connect. I think one thing that helps is using the toy/dummy/whatever at close quarters - starting with a lower value one - throwing it into the air so it lands very close, and getting the 'stop' in there; the dog won't have had time to get into chase mode and it should be easier to get them to stop. It might be different with gun dogs. I've only ever had collies and a collie/terrier cross.
Not much help, @tabelmabel - you're nearly there already. On a long line, if you can use that to stop them in full flight, then go to where they are to reward, that might get the message home. It might also work or be different if you use your voice rather than the whistle until it's better - a different way of getting Tilly's attention.


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks for this @Burrowzig - it is definitely the full flight part she doesnt do. I love the way yours go from full flight to dead stop.

The problem with not using a long line is that she is then rewarded for ignoring me (unless she genuinely cant hear me when in chase mode)

A lot more work at close range could really help though and i always think of your dogs being the gold standard i am aiming for with the stop. If i ever get there, i shall proudly post a vid. But think it could be years rather than weeks or months.

Thanks again, will definitely use this as a training template!


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

It _does_ take years, not just the initial training but the constant reinforcement afterwards, sometimes going back a stage and finding new contexts to practice it in. Flossie, if I send her out on a retrieve on her own, and put in a 'stop', she'll be very reluctant to go next time, not sure she hasn't done something wrong. But if she goes out with the others and they all stop, she's fine. I have to be more careful what I ask her to do individually.


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## Tillystar (Jan 30, 2013)

CheddarS said:


> I have a round biothane for trailing and it is very light and strong...really good as not slippy and doesn't pick up water. Really pleased and is now my go to line. BiothaneBert is great as can customise.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=biothane bert - collars and leads&epa=SEARCH_BOX


@tabelmabel BiothaneBert has a sale on till Tuesday so if you've not ordered i would get one.
Im going to order some normal slip/clip leads for work i hate holding wet leads


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## tabelmabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks @Tillystar but im not on facebook and already have a biothane. Its not weightless enough though.

I think the line mentioned by @picaresque and @McKenzie will fit the bill and, now i have the instructions from burrowzig, hopefully we can get cracking!


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

I used a 10 metre long line like this one for training Gwylim, only difference is that mine is made in Hungary.. It doesn't get wet and doesn't burn your hands if the dog pulls. And it's lightweight.

https://www.dogpride.eu/store/leads/working-lead-10m/#cc-m-product-10859261278


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