# Possible reason for stillborn kittens?



## donna1 (Oct 26, 2013)

Hello all. My experienced oriental queen, Bonjour, gave birth to 4 kittens yesterday - sadly, two were born dead. She has always had healthy litters before...I have been wondering why she has had this problem this time. I think the answer might lie with the fact that we kept a kitten from her last litter (he is now about a year old). I noticed that as she came to her due date she started 'mothering' this 'adult' baby of hers, even though she hadn't previously been bothering about him. I wonder if she thought she 'had a kitten already', and this stopped her going into labour when she should (she was late with these kittens, and she has always been bang on time before). Has anyone else experienced anything like this before? I'd be really grateful for comments as I'd like to avoid this happening again if poss.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

You say she's 'always' had healthy litters before. How many litters has she had? Being overdue may have some bearing on stillbirths but I've never known an existing offspring be the root cause. How far overdue did she go? Were the kittens fully formed and a good size or had they been dead some time?


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

Are still borns quite common in ori/siamese litters? My present kitten was originally one of 8, 2 were stillborn and 1 just too tiny.
In my older cats litter there was also a still born.

I'm so very sorry, must be heartbreaking to see that


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## donna1 (Oct 26, 2013)

Hi havoc. This is her fourth litter. She has always had good sized litters before with no deaths. The two dead kittens were well-formed and good sized, and had been moving the day before they were born...it is as if she 'held onto' them for a little too long. It is hard to say how late she was because it depends if you go from first possible mating date to last possible mating date, but if you go from last she was one day over. As she was approaching her due date and showing signs of early labour she was 'stressing' about her older kitten - following him around, even trying to pick him up (he's bigger than her now!) etc. and not settling because she wanted him with her. I just wonder if her hormones got a bit confused...


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I've heard of cats often mothering their older babies and trying to carry them around when they are due another litter, and it doesn't usually hinder their labour, so I don't think you need to be too worried about that. The cats I've heard of have all had healthy litters after (my cat Charcoal who I had as a child would do that when her second ones were due).


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

Sorry to hear about the loss of your little ones, its always sad to lose any and it makes us wonder if there was any reason or if we could have done anything else.

Unfortunately you will probably not find an answer. Sometimes it just isn't meant to be. I would doubt that being a day over or having her adult kitten had much to do with it but I can understand you wanting to find an answer. One of my girls previously fed her older kitten right up until delivery of the next litter a year later which I was more concerned it might bring on labour (it didn't) and have had girls go over or under their dates and it not make a difference. But sometimes sad though it is stillbirths and deformities do happen and there is normally no way of knowing who or when.

I was trying to work out how many kittens we had born this year and I think it's 23, out of which I had 4 stillbirths over 4 litters. Out of these two were from one litter of six and then one each from two other litters (of three and eight). Considering the number of kittens we've had this year while not an acceptable loss (I wouldn't consider the sad loss of a kitten acceptable  ) but is within the boundaries of probably what is usual. Stillbirth is something breeders don't like to talk about but I think you would find its more common sadly than you think.

Don't beat yourself up over trying to find a reason, enjoy the healthy kittens you've got


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> following him around, even trying to pick him up (he's bigger than her now!) etc. and not settling because she wanted him with her. I just wonder if her hormones got a bit confused...


That's exactly the behaviour I'd expect as a healthy pregnant girl came close to her due date. Never known it cause a problem.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

There are so many reasons for kittens being born dead. You *might* get some clues if you have a PM done, but again maybe not. Have you used the stud before?


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## donna1 (Oct 26, 2013)

Hi. Yes, the stud is my own and he normally produces gorgeous kittens!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

And she's had healthy litters with this stud before?

I don't think it's the kitten you kept at all. AFAIK the unborn kittens themselves are a significant part of triggering labour, when they are no longer receiving enough via their placentas and I'm sure that process can 'go wrong' - kittens arrive early or late.

How many days from first mating was she? More than 70? That's the point at which most of us take the cat to the vets. It's the first mating that triggers ovulation and hence when kittens are due. 65-66 days is normal, more than 70 is overdue.

I suspect that without a PM on the dead kittens there's no way of knowing. Fingers crossed it goes better for her (and you) next time, if she has another litter.


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