# When is all this going to end



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Tourists face chaos in France with fire threats, traffic jams and road blockades | Daily Mail Online

Hope anyones not going on holiday here. Its about time something was done about it.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Well, the French farmers revolting all end when the heatwave has passed I guess. It doesn't take much for that lot to stop working at the best of times and this heat is just the last straw.

The refugee immigration crisis doesn't end; not in our life time. It will be moved somewhere else and we won't read so much about it. Wondering if Germany and France will pull out of schengen?


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Even if they do, I don't see how that would alleviate the issue.


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Satori said:


> The refugee immigration crisis doesn't end; not in our life time. It will be moved somewhere else and we won't read so much about it. Wondering if Germany and France will pull out of schengen?


Even if they will that won't change anything. People are trying to get to UK by jumping onto trains. Border control will definitely not stop them trying to get through to countries unless they will build China wall.


----------



## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

We should never have built that tunnel. I said from the begining & at that time it was one of the biggest mistakes the then government made.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

shadowmare said:


> Even if they will that won't change anything. People are trying to get to UK by jumping onto trains. Border control will definitely not stop them trying to get through to countries unless they will build China wall.


The routes are well known. I read that Ventimiglia to Menton is the most popular crossing; thousands every week waved on through, welcomed to France with open arms. And this a very easy route to block. Of course they will find other ways, no doubt helped by the Italian police, but they too can be closed. There are only so many border roads and rail lines. Some will get through but, versus not doing anything? You seriously think closing the borders will have no effect? They are in Calais because nobody wants to stop them being there.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Fact. The Channel tunnel was and is a bad idea, it should be blown up and flooded, it has been this countries last line of defence for a 1000 years stopping rabies and Hitler, France isnt bothered, they want the illegals gone, we (the UK) run the French end under an agreement, thats why at Coquelles you meet UK HMRC whilst at Folkestone (outbound) you are checked by French passport control, and its only 4 damn holes in the ground, why arent our armed forces there stopping illegals getting in tunnels

why?

cos the UK is so damn soft


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Valanita said:


> We should never have built that tunnel. I said from the begining & at that time it was one of the biggest mistakes the then government made.


See my post above


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Honeys mum said:


> Tourists face chaos in France with fire threats, traffic jams and road blockades | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Hope anyones not going on holiday here. Its about time something was done about it.


We are booked on P&O Dover-Calais Aug14th........


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> We are booked on P&O Dover-Calais Aug14th.......[/QUO
> 
> Hope there is no problems for you, and that you have a nice holiday.
> We want to go again, but I'm a bit concerned while all this is going on.


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2015)

What I see here are people fighting for their lives and others fighting for a nice Holiday. Both are important, but maybe one problem just a bit more important.

In a fair world no one should need to find a way of living like this. As it is, I believe those trying to move into a country they could have a living need our support most.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

MrsZee said:


> What I see here are people fighting for their lives and others fighting for a nice Holiday. Both are important, but maybe one problem just a bit more important.
> 
> In a fair world no one should need to find a way of living like this. As it is, I believe those trying to move into a country they could have a living need our support most.


The problem is knowing who fits the category you describe.

The influx is a mix of desperate people fleeing war / evil regimes, economic migrants, terrorists.. How can we know who is who without border controls?


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2015)

Satori said:


> The problem is knowing who fits the category you describe.
> 
> The influx is a mix of desperate people fleeing war / evil regimes, economic migrants, terrorists.. How can we know who is who without border controls?


How would border controls know who is a terrorist? Anyone can become a terrorist. School shootings are horrid examples of this. And criminals will always find their ways in, but the innocent people will be stopped at the borders. However, Finland is no better than Britain, on the contrary, so I feel a bit hypocritical criticizing British, who have been in the past so much better than us with allowing people in. I just feel very strongly that it it beneficial for all, if people can move from one country to another more freely.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

MrsZee said:


> How would border controls know who is a terrorist? Anyone can become a terrorist. School shootings are horrid examples of this. And criminals will always find their ways in, but the innocent people will be stopped at the borders. However, Finland is no better than Britain, on the contrary, so I feel a bit hypocritical criticizing British, who have been in the past so much better than us with allowing people in. I just feel very strongly that it it beneficial for all, if people can move from one country to another more freely.


Well there are some people we are actually looking for on their way back from training but for the rest it would take a long process I admit; many migrants have no, or false, documents. I would divert everyone to secure detention camps for as long as it took to scrutinise their story and yes I know that would take several years in many cases. With Islamic State running the boat operations from Libya according to number of reports I would take a very tough stance on this. Most people will feel the same way when the first terrorist attack on European soil is linked to this hole in our security. (I would also take direct action against the ports from which we know these boats leave but that's another story).


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

shadowmare said:


> Even if they will that won't change anything. People are trying to get to UK by jumping onto trains. Border control will definitely not stop them trying to get through to countries unless they will *build China wall.*


I think they should electrify the fences, use rubber bullets and water cannons. Hard I know but something has do be done.


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

It is time to end this migrant madness in DAILY MAIL COMMENT | Daily Mail Online

I think this sums it up completely.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Why cant we secure 2 holes against illegals? it isnt rocket science, gates maybe?


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

MrsZee said:


> What I see here are people fighting for their lives and others fighting for a nice Holiday. Both are important, but maybe one problem just a bit more important.
> 
> In a fair world no one should need to find a way of living like this. As it is, I believe those trying to move into a country they could have a living need our support most.


My heart goes out to them risking there life's to get here but what do they actually think they are coming to? the truth is sleeping rough and no work,just say we allowed 3000 in how long before the next 3000 tried where would it end.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

MrsZee said:


> What I see here are people fighting for their lives and others fighting for a nice Holiday. Both are important, but maybe one problem just a bit more important.
> 
> In a fair world no one should need to find a way of living like this. As it is, I believe those trying to move into a country they could have a living need our support most.


If I was (say) in Somalia and in danger or fear of my life would i flee? (yes) would i go all the way to England across many countries? no, if they want safety its much nearer but wouldnt have the (cough) benefits of living here...

keep em out, leave the EU, block the tunnel


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Ane we cannot rely on the French, they could (while we are in the EU) hand out 5000 "special" French passports and we would have to allow all the illegals in....


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Perhaps I am looking at this incorrectly but if you blocked the tunnel would they not just go to the ferry terminals and get on board trucks, or even get there own little boats...

Let's face if the people have traveled all the way from Sudan or wherever....a few miles of water won't make a difference. Tunnel or not.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Heres the pi55take, from P&O Ferries website

PLEASE NOTE
The UK Government has introduced exit checks at all UK ports of departure, from Wednesday 8th April 2015. This means we'll be checking passports or national identity cards when checking in for our tourist services at Dover and Hull. In order to speed up check-in please make sure you have your passport or national identity card to hand.


So illegals can walk in willy nilly, we get checked when LEAVING!


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm not a terrorist. I'm not a rapist or a thief either. I'm a citizen of Europe and the world but most of all I'm a British Citizen. Yet the majority here in Finland see me as a potential thief, rapist and terrorist out to steal *their* jobs* their *women and undermine *their* way of life.

I daren't print what some think of MrsZee because she has gotten herself involved with an immigrant (person of another nationality)

It would appear that it doesn't really matter where you come from, being labelled as an 'immigrant' automatically makes you a leper of the society you're attempting to integrate into.

Sad innit.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

stuaz said:


> Perhaps I am looking at this incorrectly but if you blocked the tunnel would they not just go to the ferry terminals and get on board trucks, or even get there own little boats...
> 
> Let's face if the people have traveled all the way from Sudan or wherever....a few miles of water won't make a difference. Tunnel or not.


But its far easier to walk through the tunnel, the ferries are quite well checked at Calais and Dover with carbon dioxide checks and whole truck X-ray machines


----------



## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> Heres the pi55take, from P&O Ferries website
> 
> PLEASE NOTE
> The UK Government has introduced exit checks at all UK ports of departure, from Wednesday 8th April 2015. This means we'll be checking passports or national identity cards when checking in for our tourist services at Dover and Hull. In order to speed up check-in please make sure you have your passport or national identity card to hand.
> ...


We left on 15th july, we were not checked. We offered our passports but were waved through.

We had completed our API and on a reserved crossing so our reg plate was recognised.

Maybe if you are not on a pre booked ticket they will check.

The M20 is one big car park. Come off at 11a for the tunnel, approach the policeman stopping traffic on the slipway, tell him you are booked on the tumnel and he'll let you through.

Don't follow diversion signs.

We got to our crossing 2 hours late but went round to the boarding section to ask if there were any gaps going, we were lucky and got on next available train.


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Zaros said:


> I'm not a terrorist. I'm not a rapist or a thief either. I'm a citizen of Europe and the world but most of all I'm a British Citizen. Yet the majority here in Finland see me as a potential thief, rapist and terrorist out to steal *their* jobs* their *women and undermine *their* way of life.
> 
> I daren't print what some think of MrsZee because she has gotten herself involved with an immigrant (person of another nationality)
> 
> ...


Zaros I understand what you are saying, but we have many immigrants in my area and they are living rough or being packed into 3 bedroom houses often as many as 16 paying a landlord £140+ a week,they think they are coming to a good life but it's far from that.It is sad innit and I don't know the answer.


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Ane we cannot rely on the French, they could (while we are in the EU) hand out 5000 "special" French passports and we would have to allow all the illegals in....


According to the news today, Nigel Fararge quoted this, what a frightening thought.


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

suewhite said:


> Zaros I understand what you are saying, but we have many immigrants in my area and they are living rough or being packed into 3 bedroom houses often as many as 16 paying a landlord £140+ a week,they think they are coming to a good life but it's far from that.It is sad innit and I don't know the answer.


Agree with this completely. My OH works with quite a few EU migrants, mostly from Poland, Lithuania and Bulgaria and while they are in a secure and salaried job now, they have all come from jobs where they were being exploited, mostly by their fellow countrymen in the UK, earning well below minimum wage and living in horrible accommodation. Two of them were medical professionals back in their home countries but are now earning minimum wage working as catering assistants and pot washers.

The money may be better but their quality of life over here is, quite frankly, sh1t. Sadly the migrants in Calais can expect much worse.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Zaros said:


> I'm not a terrorist. I'm not a rapist or a thief either. I'm a citizen of Europe and the world but most of all I'm a British Citizen. Yet the majority here in Finland see me as a potential thief, rapist and terrorist out to steal *their* jobs* their *women and undermine *their* way of life.
> 
> I daren't print what some think of MrsZee because she has gotten herself involved with an immigrant (person of another nationality)
> 
> ...


You actually believe that IS is not shipping terrorists on boats to Europe? Now that really is sad.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Satori said:


> You actually believe that IS is not shipping terrorists on boats to Europe? Now that really is sad.


Oh for heaven's sake!

Would that be via P&O Ferrymasters or Schenker AG?

Believing in everything they print in the newspapers is what's really sad.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

For me we should be one, as one world, there's so much more of the 'us' and 'them' now, it's very sad to see as we have done absolutely nothing to be born where we are, it's purely luck, there's no skill or talent in it, yet people are now using it as some sort of supremacy.

Ironically the scaremongering of the press makes people get into a panic over the sheer number of immigrants coming to the UK, however we take in much less then one per cent.

People have always migrated from country to country, it's how the world has developed and evolved, the press makes it seem like the end of the world and everyone is scared for their lives, or holidays. 
It's a sad situation for the poor people, they are people, we are people, we need to remember that and try to keep our humanity, it seems to be slipping away from us.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

suewhite said:


> Zaros I understand what you are saying, but we have many immigrants in my area and they are living rough or being packed into 3 bedroom houses often as many as 16 paying a landlord £140+ a week,they think they are coming to a good life but it's far from that.It is sad innit and I don't know the answer.


I suppose it's very easy to fall foul of an opportunist when your situation is desperate. Especially so when that opportunist appears to offer you a hand up instead of a hand out.

I have no answer either Sue, and I very much doubt anyone will find one anytime soon.

In the meantime they will keep coming.


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> For me we should be one, as one world, there's so much more of the 'us' and 'them' now, it's very sad to see as we have done absolutely nothing to be born where we are, it's purely luck, there's no skill or talent in it, yet people are now using it as some sort of supremacy.
> 
> Ironically the scaremongering of the press makes people get into a panic over the sheer number of immigrants coming to the UK, however we take in much less then one per cent.
> 
> ...


I do agree with you on the whole but sadly it's just not possible to welcome whoever wishes to come here with open arms. We have a responsibility to anyone who arrives here in a desperate situation and protocols have to be to followed - for instance unaccompanied minor immigrants need fostering until they are sixteen and those who are between sixteen and eighteen need a designated social worker. Not to mention the fact that everyone needs somewhere to stay initially, the children need schooling, everyone needs access to medical care...

When an immigrant becomes free to find employment in the UK there is currently very little in place to protect them from being exploited and some end up in an arrangement which is little better than slavery. Housing is expensive for all of us and prohibitively expensive for an immigrant who is being exploited for cheap labour, so they end up being exploited again by scum landlords. Everyone in this country deserves to be protected from these situations but at the moment it is quite a common occurrence and not much is being done to prevent it. Probably because we lack the infrastructure and the economic means. Or maybe because the government cares as much about immigrants as it does about the rest of us!


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

I dont get why they all think Britain is so lovely! I mean they pass through alot of Europe on their way to the french coast....surely some of it looks nice enough to live in?


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

*Asylum seekers: some myths and truths...*
*Separating the myth from the truth on asylum seekers*
*The myth: Asylum seekers jump the queue when it comes to admission to schools and harm the education of local children*
*The truth:* The children of asylum seekers are subject to the same admission rules as any other resident of Salford. In other words, consideration is given to medical need, whether the child has a brother or sister at the school and how close the child lives to the school.

*The myth: Asylum seekers come to Britain and are immediately given free homes and full benefits*
*The truth:* They are not allowed to claim mainstream welfare benefits. Asylum seekers benefits are paid by central government's National Asylum Support Service (NASS) and not from local council taxes, this is to cover their accommodation and support costs. From April 2006, a single person aged 25 or over receives £40.22 a week and a couple receives £63.07 a week this is 70% of what a person on Income Support receives and is below the official poverty line. A national report of asylum seekers and refugees, revealed 85% experience hunger, 95% cannot afford to buy clothes or shoes and 80% are not able to maintain good health.

*The myth: Asylum seekers are a drain on the economy*
*The truth:* After initial barriers such as the ability to speak English and the recognition of overseas qualifications are overcome, refugees can make a valuable contribution as professionals, tax payers and as active members of their local community.

*The myth: Asylum seekers are illegal immigrants*
*The truth:* Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants. An illegal immigrant is a person who arrives in the new country and has either NOT made themselves known to the authorities OR stayed in the country longer than they were authorised. Whereas an asylum seeker has made themselves known to the authorities and have been fingerprinted, photographed and security checked. They are then allowed to legally stay until their case is assessed.

*The myth: Nine out of ten asylum seekers are bogus*
*The truth:* Unfortunately, as with all systems, some people will try to pull a fast one. However the UK has a very tough system for asylum seekers. Asylum seekers need to provide credible evidence of their situation and proof of their persecution when fleeing their country. Because the system is tough, the majority get their application refused. This could be because they did not have their personal dossier of evidence in order or they had inefficient legal representation, but it does not mean the Home Office caught them out as a trickster.

*The myth: Asylum seekers are linked to rising crime*
*The truth:* In every community there are always a few members that ruin it for the rest and asylum seekers or refugees are no exception. However, in 2001 a report published by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) confirmed that there is no evidence for a higher rate of criminality among refugees and asylum seekers. Asylum seekers are less likely to commit major crimes than British citizens, as this would affect their asylum application. In fact they are more likely to become victims of crime in the UK.

*The myth: Britain is a refugee magnet*
*The truth:* According to estimates by the United Nations, the UK only hosts 3% of the global refugee population. By the end of 2005 the UK ranked seventh in the world in terms of the numbers of refugees it hosts. The majority of people seeking asylum end up in the country next to their own. For example, Pakistan host the highest number of refugees and asylum seekers (1,085,000), as it borders troubled countries such as Afghanistan or Iran. Over the last three years, France has had the highest number of asylum applications in Europe.

*The myth: Asylum seekers are given priority over other council tenants for properties*
*The truth:* Asylum seekers are NOT entitled to council housing. Accommodation and support for people seeking asylum is provided from a range of accommodation providers including private sector landlords and registered social landlords. This accommodation is provided under contract with the Home Office and all costs are met by central government. Once people seeking asylum have been granted leave to remain in the UK they have the same rights as other citizens and will have to queue up on the council housing waiting list.

*The myth: Most asylum seekers come from safe countries*
*The truth:* In 2006, Eritrea, Afghanistan, Iran, China and Somalia topped the list of countries people flee to claim asylum. In recent years refugees have fled from Afghanistan, Iraq, Sri Lanka and the former Yugoslavia - countries where there has been serious conflict or grave abuses of human rights.

*The myth: There simply isn't enough room in Salford to accommodate asylum seekers*
*The truth:* The number of asylum seekers allocated to Salford is less than 0.5% of the population. At the same time, according to latest census figures, the population of Salford is falling. Refugees can make a valuable contribution to Salford both economically and culturally.

*The myth: Aren't they stealing our jobs?*
*The truth*: People that are waiting for a decision on their asylum application are not allowed to work. Most of them had highly skilled jobs in their countries such as doctors, social workers, journalists, etc. However when they are granted leave to remain and are allowed to work, they usually do not find employment at the same level. They are usually employed in services and industries where there are skills shortages.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Of the applications made last year 127,000 were to Germany, (29 percent) 65,000 to France (15 percent), 54,000 to Sweden and 30,000 to the UK (7 percent).


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

catz4m8z said:


> I dont get why they all think Britain is so lovely! I mean they pass through alot of Europe on their way to the french coast....surely some of it looks nice enough to live in?


Yes lovely to live in maybe, but other countries dont hand out benefits to immigrants like we do, not saying they all claim benefits as some may alredy have jobs to come to, mainy through contacts from their own country who are are already here, 
My son and partner came to visit me on 6th June,they got to Calais at 4 am and tey said it was the most terrifying journey ,they were accosted by men banging on the car as they passed, to get to the ferry
They left here for home [they live in Spain] on the 26th and were held up by the long tailbacks, but maged to get to Dover in time for their ferry ,but said if this is still the same situation next year they will try to find a different route, 
The french police by the way were nowhere to be seen


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> Yes lovely to live in maybe, but other countries dont hand out benefits to immigrants like we do, not saying they all claim benefits as some may alredy have jobs to come to, mainy through contacts from their own country who are are already here,
> My son and partner came to visit me on 6th June,they got to Calais at 4 am and tey said it was the most terrifying journey ,they were accosted by men banging on the car as they passed, to get to the ferry
> They left here for home [they live in Spain] on the 26th and were held up by the long tailbacks, but maged to get to Dover in time for their ferry ,but said if this is still the same situation next year they will try to find a different route,
> The french police by the way were nowhere to be seen


*The myth: Asylum seekers come to Britain and are immediately given free homes and full benefits*
*The truth:* They are not allowed to claim mainstream welfare benefits. Asylum seekers benefits are paid by central government's National Asylum Support Service (NASS) and not from local council taxes, this is to cover their accommodation and support costs. From April 2006, a single person aged 25 or over receives £40.22 a week and a couple receives £63.07 a week this is 70% of what a person on Income Support receives and is below the official poverty line. A national report of asylum seekers and refugees, revealed 85% experience hunger, 95% cannot afford to buy clothes or shoes and 80% are not able to maintain good health.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> Yes lovely to live in maybe, but other countries dont hand out benefits to immigrants like we do, not saying they all claim benefits as some may alredy have jobs to come to, mainy through contacts from their own country who are are already here,
> My son and partner came to visit me on 6th June,they got to Calais at 4 am and tey said it was the most terrifying journey ,they were accosted by men banging on the car as they passed, to get to the ferry
> They left here for home [they live in Spain] on the 26th and were held up by the long tailbacks, but maged to get to Dover in time for their ferry ,but said if this is still the same situation next year they will try to find a different route,
> The french police by the way were nowhere to be seen


Is your son Spanish?


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I dont agree that they do not claim benefits, as i said not all, but we have seen people boasting about how much money they get ,and how well off they will be compared to in their own country,also claiming child benefit to send home , which is worth much more in their country than it is here


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Is your son Spanish?


That's interesting.
Going to Spain, taking Spanish jobs....


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

No hes English and doesnt get anything from the Spanish Government and he works


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> No hes English and doesnt get anything from the Spanish Government and he works


So its fine for your son to immigrant? But not others? I love the way you ignored facts btw. So again :
*Most non-EEA nationals who are subject to immigration control are not allowed access to 'public funds' (such as jobseekers' allowance or tax credits), although they can use public services like the NHS and education.*
Most citizens of non-EEA countries who come to live in the UK have 'no recourse to public funds' in the initial years after they arrive, when there are still time limits or other conditions on their authorization to remain in the UK. This means that they are not eligible for benefits such as jobseekers' allowance, disability allowance, tax credits, or housing benefit.

There are some exceptions, such as people who have been granted humanitarian protection but do not have permanent residence. Claims for tax credits may be made by couples if only one partner would not be able to claim in their own right because they have no recourse to public funds.

'Public funds' do not include public services like schools or the National Health Service. However, from April 2015 an NHS Surcharge of £200 per applicant and dependent (or £150 in the case of a student) for each year of a visa is now added to the normal cost of the visa for non-EEA citizens.

Non-EEA citizens who initially have no recourse to public funds become eligible for them when they are granted permanent residence (for most admission categories eligible forsettlement this requires five years of legal residence)

Asylum seekers are not eligible for welfare benefits while their claims are pending, but may be given less generous financial support through a separate Home Office programme. They become eligible for public funds if they are granted refugee status.


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I thought you were going to say that but hes self employed,his partner worked briefly in a care home ,just filling in for someone and her pay was less than £3 in English money


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I thought you were going to say that but hes self employed,his partner worked briefly in a care home ,just filling in for someone and her pay was less than £3 in English money


Your point? You have a son who is an immigrant but you think people shouldn't be allow to live in the UK?


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> but said if this is still the same situation next year they will try to find a different route,
> The french police by the way were nowhere to be seen


They can travel by plane or take the Eurotunnel (that is obviously, if people's wishes won't be heard and it won't be blown up because it was a stupid idea to begin with!).


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

*Highlights*
An estimated 5.5m British people live permanently abroad - almost one in 10 of the UK population. The emigration of British people has happened in cycles over 200 years. The trend is now rising again: some 2,000 British citizens moved permanently away from the UK every week in 2005.

This unique project aims to explain where people have gone. On the regional and country pages you will find data on what we know about that part of the world. For more on the methodology and the key issues about emigration, click on the links at the bottom of these pages.

BRITS ABROAD: THE TOP COUNTRIES
*Country name* *Resident Britons*
Australia 1,300,000
Spain 761,000
United States 678,000
Canada 603,000
Ireland 291,000
New Zealand 215,000
South Africa 212,000
France 200,000
*Immigration Statistics - Released May 2015
Net Migration*

Net Migration to the UK in the year ending December 2014 was* 318,000*.


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I didnt say that or mean that, but we can only take so many and there are people here who havent got decent housing ,and living off food banks
Iam not a racist,i just think its gone too far, something has to be done ,also my son takes nothing from the Spanish i think there is a difference, 
Anyway my bedtime


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

shadowmare said:


> They can travel by plane or take the Eurotunnel (that is obviously, if people's wishes won't be heard and it won't be blown up because it was a stupid idea to begin with!).


They wont fly because they bring their 2 dogs and dont want them travelling in the hold, if they come by Eurotunnel its still from Calais, but there are other sea routes just more expensive,
I dont think that tunnel should have even been built


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I didnt say that or mean that, but we can only take so many and there are people here who havent got decent housing ,and living off food banks
> Iam not a racist,i just think its gone too far, something has to be done ,also my son takes nothing from the Spanish i think there is a difference,
> Anyway my bedtime


You think? So he is okay to go and live in another country when he wants and no one is allowed to come to the UK?
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

There are not only far more Britons drawing benefits in these countries than vice versa, but frequently the benefits elsewhere in Europe are much more generous than in the UK. A Briton in France receives more than three times as much as a jobless French person in the UK.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Love how the facts are utterly ignored!!!!!


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

The facts and figures are all well and good, but they do not take into account the harsh realities of life for many immigrants. 

My OH has recently employed a Lithuanian woman who graduated from university in Lithuania but came over here when her husband got a job in London. She is extremely intelligent but had limited English when she arrived and struggled to find decent work. She worked at one of those £5 per kilo clothes recycling places earning only commission per kilo she processed. The CV she submitted to my OH was badly written and difficult to understand but she was great at interview so got the job as a kitchen assistant earning minimum wage. 

I think it's great that she has been able to come here but her country has lost a graduate, a potential professional in her field while the UK has gained another cheap employee who has no better quality of life here than in Lithuania as the cost of living is relative to her salary in both countries. I can't see who this is benefitting really, other than the big bosses at my OH's work. 

This is just one person and there are thousands of others like her. I feel quite strongly that these issues need to be addressed rather than simply looking at the statistics that show uncontrolled immigration to be a purely positive thing - facts and figures do not give the whole story.


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

It is worth mentioning too the disparity between regions of the UK and how the experience of those living in Kent may be different to someone living in Durham for instance. Today I heard on the radio that there are no foster families available for any unaccompanied minor immigrants arriving from Calais because they are already looking after those who arrived earlier this month and in June.

This IS a real problem; as I said earlier we have a duty to protect those in desperate need arriving in this country but Kent is at capacity as far as fostering is concerned and surely these standards of care should not be compromised.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ruggling-to-cope-with-children-seeking-asylum


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

bearcub said:


> *The facts and figures are all well and good, but they do not take into account the harsh realities of life for many immigrants. *
> 
> My OH has recently employed a Lithuanian woman who graduated from university in Lithuania but came over here when her husband got a job in London. She is extremely intelligent but had limited English when she arrived and struggled to find decent work. She worked at one of those £5 per kilo clothes recycling places earning only commission per kilo she processed. The CV she submitted to my OH was badly written and difficult to understand but she was great at interview so got the job as a kitchen assistant earning minimum wage.
> 
> ...


Sorry but that's simply not true. So what that she has a university degree in Lithuania? Loads of people have degrees in Lithuania. The harsh reality is that there are no jobs. Especially if she has one of the popular degrees. Unless she knows a person who knows a person, she will probably start off with a minimum wage in a job that has nothing to do with her degree. You know what minimum wage is in Lithuania? Here's a reality check - the government recently proposed to increase the monthly wage to 325 euros and the minimum hourly rate to 1.97 euro. There's about 1.3 million working people in Lithuania and third of them are on minimum wage. Just to give you an idea of what sort of living standard a person on a minimum wage has: a bottle of milk costs about 0.5 euro, a loaf of bread - 1 euro, 1kg of chicken drumsticks - 2 euros. Rent for a 1 bedroom flat in the capital starts off with 100 euros (no bills included). And finally, just because this is a pets forum - cheapest "decent" dog kibble costs 40 euros for 15 kg. For comparison - the same 7.5 kg bag of Royal Canin here costs £30. In Lithuania - 45 euros. 
I have plenty of friends who have graduated in Lithuania with brilliant grades. Many of them are still struggling to get their foot in the door. Meanwhile others are lucky to know people. So here's an example - my best friend who has a degree in architecture from the best University (also studied in Italy for a year and worked with an architect there) worked in an architecture firm for a year before deciding if she would do a masters. She worked full time. At that time I worked as a bartender in Scotland. If you include the tips I got (£10-15 a day) I earned 3 times more than her. A waiter in the same restaurant earned twice as much! 
Just a bit of perspective.


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

shadowmare said:


> Sorry but that's simply not true. So what that she has a university degree in Lithuania? Loads of people have degrees in Lithuania. The harsh reality is that there are no jobs. Especially if she has one of the popular degrees. Unless she knows a person who knows a person, she will probably start off with a minimum wage in a job that has nothing to do with her degree. You know what minimum wage is in Lithuania? Here's a reality check - the government recently proposed to increase the monthly wage to 325 euros and the minimum hourly rate to 1.97 euro. There's about 1.3 million working people in Lithuania and third of them are on minimum wage. Just to give you an idea of what sort of living standard a person on a minimum wage has: a bottle of milk costs about 0.5 euro, a loaf of bread - 1 euro, 1kg of chicken drumsticks - 2 euros. Rent for a 1 bedroom flat in the capital starts off with 100 euros (no bills included). And finally, just because this is a pets forum - cheapest "decent" dog kibble costs 40 euros for 15 kg. For comparison - the same 7.5 kg bag of Royal Canin here costs £30. In Lithuania - 45 euros.
> I have plenty of friends who have graduated in Lithuania with brilliant grades. Many of them are still struggling to get their foot in the door. Meanwhile others are lucky to know people. So here's an example - my best friend who has a degree in architecture from the best University (also studied in Italy for a year and worked with an architect there) worked in an architecture firm for a year before deciding if she would do a masters. She worked full time. At that time I worked as a bartender in Scotland. If you include the tips I got (£10-15 a day) I earned 3 times more than her. A waiter in the same restaurant earned twice as much!
> Just a bit of perspective.


I don't know what you're referring to as 'simply not true' but I personally find it very sad that someone should study hard for a degree, become qualified in their field and then end up working for minimum wage, which incidentally does not go far in greater London - one bedroom flats in OH's work area are at least £850pcm.

No one helped her with her English when she came her to the UK, she ended up being exploited and earning well below minimum wage and her country lost a graduate. Surely none of this is a positive aspect of immigration? Again, I am glad she had the opportunity to come here but it's not a better life for her... although it will be for her children if she has them


----------



## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

Meezey said:


> There are not only far more Britons drawing benefits in these countries than vice versa, but frequently the benefits elsewhere in Europe are much more generous than in the UK. A Briton in France receives more than three times as much as a jobless French person in the UK.


I agreed with you right up to that point.
Can't speak for France, but a Briton in Spain (where @jaycee05 's son lives) will find it very difficult indeed to get unemployment benefit and benefits like income support are simply not available there.
Unemployment benefit (paro) often runs for 6 months only and then is replaced by sweet FA and that is for those that get it in the first place.
Brits living in Spain are not legally supposed to receive any UK benefits, although older persons can receive their state pension and there are a few disability benefit payments made, but not many. The only way an ex-pat mother living in Spain can claim British child benefit is if her husband is living in and paying tax and insurance in the UK, and so on.
I don't know where reports about Brits living in European countries either at their expense or at the UK government's expense come from, but I really don't think there are many of them (there may have been a few years ago, but all countries have clamped down so much it's highly unlikely many people manage to get away with this anymore).

But yes, I agree that you can't have it both ways regarding immigration.
If you or your relatives are happy to live in another country as immigrants (because that is what they are, even though many say they are 'ex-pats'), then it is rather hypocritical to say that people shouldn't have the right to come to the UK to live.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

MrsZee said:


> As it is, I believe those trying to move into a country they could have a living need our support most.


But those in Calais are already in a different (safe) country, France. In fact many have crossed other countries to get there. The target is the UK.

And whilst we can feel sorry for the misplaced immigrants, one of the main reasons that we need to stop this charade is that they are putting themselves at the mercy of people trafficers .....criminal gangs offering 'safe passage' for between £800 and £6000. But there is no such thing as a safe passage. So it's a rip off. And there are some horrendous stories of youngsters being ripped off by trafficers.

I also believe that the immigrants are being sold a rose tinted view of the UK of free flowing milk and honey by those very trafficers. And when they get here, many find that multi occupation in a back room of an old victorian property in Hownslow is anything but flowing with milk and honey.

So yes something needs to be done. Not because the holiday makers can't get through lol but because in order to help those really in need there has to be order brought to this chaos.

J


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

silvi said:


> I agreed with you right up to that point.
> Can't speak for France, but a Briton in Spain (where @jaycee05 's son lives) will find it very difficult indeed to get unemployment benefit and benefits like income support are simply not available there.
> Unemployment benefit (paro) often runs for 6 months only and then is replaced by sweet FA and that is for those that get it in the first place.
> Brits living in Spain are not legally supposed to receive any UK benefits, although older persons can receive their state pension and there are a few disability benefit payments made, but not many. The only way an ex-pat mother living in Spain can claim British child benefit is if her husband is living in and paying tax and insurance in the UK, and so on.
> ...


As much as people say different it's also difficult to get benefits in UK.

Figures are from 2014 national statistics and government authorities.


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Meezey said:


> Your point? You have a son who is an immigrant but you think people shouldn't be allow to live in the UK?


You are twisting my words, i have never said i dont think anyone should come and live in the UK ,these immigrants are illegal ,some have already got through as seen on the news this morning,who is going to feed them and house them, are they gointg to live on fresh air, no they will be provided for and get some benefits eventually
If people are coming here to work then fair enough,
Whatever you might think,i do have some sympathy for these people, but why do they want to come here,they have passed through other countries to get here,or why dont they want to live in France, because in France they will get no help
Also my son as stated is taking nothing from Spain, in fact just the opposite, hes paying into their economy,and providing some work
Australia has the right idea,no one can move to Australia without a job to go to
The simple fact is we have no room left ,we cant even provide enough housing for our own people and private rents are exhorbitant,which before long wont be affordable to those who have had help becaudse this rotten Government with its rotten PM is stopping it and maqking more and more people homeless along with their animals which they cant afford to keep or have no where to go either


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> I also believe that the immigrants are being sold a rose tinted view of the UK of free flowing milk and honey by those very trafficers. And when they get here, many find that multi occupation in a back room of an old victorian property in Hownslow is anything but flowing with milk and honey.
> 
> J


They are and that's what makes it so sad imho, they seem to have this impression that in the UK people are kind and considerate, that Human Rights are wonderful, yet they are exploited and hated by the natives, because people believe the hype.

I lived in Germany for 21 years, partly as "occupying forces" but also as a civilian, Germany had and still has a huge problem with immigrants and still does, if I was seeking refuge somewhere that would be the country I would chose, merely being able to speak a bit of English or having a family member that does is why people chose the UK it would be my last choice....................

It saddens me no end that people are more concerned about holidays, and bringing in the Army, water cannons and hoses then basic human welfare and rights.

It winds me up no end that Brits feel they can live where they want but god forbid anyone tries to make a better life for themselves, there are more immigrants in Ireland which is smaller than England alone but the WHOLE of the UK can't cope... Studies have shown that immigrants are LESS likely to claim benefits that native Brits....... and as to taking all the jobs there are some very interesting figures that relate to this, from the time around the turn of 2004 and 2005 when something like a quarter of a million Poles entered the UK. However, recorded unemployment rates went down between 2003 and 2005, and recorded vacancy rates actually went up slightly, which would seem counter-intuitive. There are of course other factors at play, and people will make of that what they will, but the data would suggest that they weren't taking the jobs of Brits.

But hey it's PF why let facts get in the way of a good hate fest


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Hate fest? who is hating, just stating facts, 
Anyway im off to get some work done, might be back later


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> Hate fest? who is hating, just stating facts,
> Anyway im off to get some work done, might be back later


Have you read the post in this thread and others like it?


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> Hate fest? who is hating, just stating facts,
> Anyway im off to get some work done, might be back later





jaycee05 said:


> Yes lovely to live in maybe, but other countries dont hand out benefits to immigrants like we do, not saying they all claim benefits as some may alredy have jobs to come to, mainy through contacts from their own country who are are already here,





jaycee05 said:


> but we have seen people boasting about how much money they get ,and how well off they will be compared to in their own country,also claiming child benefit to send home , which is worth much more in their country than it is here


Yet even given research to show these aren't facts you still state them?


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Meezey said:


> *The myth: Asylum seekers are illegal immigrants
> The truth:* Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants. An illegal immigrant is a person who arrives in the new country and has either NOT made themselves known to the authorities OR stayed in the country longer than they were authorised. Whereas an asylum seeker has made themselves known to the authorities and have been fingerprinted, photographed and security checked. They are then allowed to legally stay until their case is assessed.


So those people cutting through fences and breaking into lorries or clinging to the tops of trains have made themselves known to the authorities? Seems like a lot of trouble to go to.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> I think they should electrify the fences, use rubber bullets and water cannons. Hard I know but something has do be done.


You know that would actually make quite a difference. What happens now in Calais when the illegal immigrants are apprehended at the border is they are put into buses and driven back to camp, whereupon they immediately head back to border. So when you read that, say, 2000 people where apprehended trying to get in last night, it isn't 2000 unique individuals it is 200 people who made 10 attempts. There is no disincentive to keep trying until you get in. A sharper disincentive, like you suggest, would take a relatively small security force to implement and would cause a dramatic drop in the number of attempted breaches.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Satori said:


> So those people cutting through fences and breaking into lorries or clinging to the tops of trains have made themselves known to the authorities? Seems like a lot of trouble to go to.


They can't make themselves known until the are in the country they wish to seek asylum in, there is no paper work to fill out before you set off, no asylum seeker bus or plane, to seek asylum they need to be in the country.

and doh they are all claiming benefits and taking jobs so they would need make themselves known


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Meezey said:


> They can't make themselves known until the are in the country they wish to seek asylum in, there is no paper work to fill out before you set off, no asylum seeker bus or plane, to seek asylum they need to be in the country.
> 
> and doh they are all claiming benefits and taking jobs so they would need make themselves known


And ones who don't need to claim benefits because they have cell members waiting to receive them? But no wait we are burying our heads in the sand about that.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Satori said:


> And ones who don't need to claim benefits because they have cell members waiting to receive them? But no wait we are burying our heads in the sand about that.


I do wonder about people and their conspiracy theories...............

Yeah coz of course there aren't any Brits involved 

"Estimates from this year put the number of British men and teenagers fighting for Isis at between 500-600. Their role on social media aside, they have proved devastatingly willing executioners."

Coz yeah all Irish are terrorists too.................


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Meezey said:


> Coz yeah all Irish are terrorists too.................


NO IRISH. NO BLACKS. NO DOGS.

AND CERTAINLY NO IRISH BLACK DOGS!


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Zaros said:


> NO IRISH. NO BLACKS. NO DOGS.
> 
> AND CERTAINLY NO IRISH BLACK DOGS!


Are Irish black and tan dogs okay? lol Or is are black and tans even more of a no no?


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Meezey said:


> Are Irish black and tan dogs okay? lol Or is are black and tans even more of a no no?


Taking their behavioural history into consideration, I suppose they'd have to be slightly more disciplined before allowing them into society.


----------



## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Zaros said:


> NO IRISH. NO BLACKS. NO DOGS.
> 
> AND CERTAINLY NO IRISH BLACK DOGS!


What about Irish Wolfhounds?


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Meezey said:


> .





Meezey said:


> They can't make themselves known until the are in the country they wish to seek asylum in, there is no paper work to fill out before you set off, no asylum seeker bus or plane, to seek asylum they need to be in the country.


Calais crisis: French port compared to a 'WARZONE' as warning drivers risk being KILLED | World | News | Daily Express

IMO I really don't think this is the way to get into our country.


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

The facts of having not enough houses for our own people, and they want a better life and education for their children, how are they going to get a better life and education here, and who is going to pay for it, and what are they going to live on if they come here with no money, so no benefits then, ? will they just be lef to starve
And yes some of the immigrants are living well here and openin businesses on the money they get here straight from the horses mouth in some cases ,not all hearsay, 
We just havent the resources now,, France should take them,if they dont want the problem at Calais, find them somewhere to live
I feel very sorry for thse people but how are they going to live,and how do we know who is a genuine asylum seeker , 
I think some have put their children in more danger than they would hae been in staying where they were in some cases


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

jaycee05 said:


> The facts of having not enough houses for our own people,
> We just havent the resources now,


Are there still countless numbers of Council Houses boarded up and forgotten about in Britain?

I'll bet there is.


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I think France have taken a lot but many don't want to stay in France they want to come to the UK.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Zaros said:


> Are there still countless numbers of Council Houses boarded up and forgotten about in Britain?
> 
> I'll bet there is.


The housing crisis there are not enough affordable houses to BUY..


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Why shouldnt people live where they like if they can afford , to,no one would begrudge someone a better life , but why should anyone not move to a differen country as long as its not taking anything from it,its the ones moving to another country who ARE taking from it
[QUOTE.................

It saddens me no end that people are more concerned about holidays, and bringing in the Army, water cannons and hoses then basic human welfare and rights.

It winds me up no end that Brits feel they can live where they want but god forbid anyone tries to make a better life for themselves


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

suewhite said:


> I think France have taken a lot but many don't want to stay in France they want to come to the UK.


Because they can speak a bit of English and not much French


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Zaros said:


> Are there still countless numbers of Council Houses boarded up and forgotten about in Britain?
> 
> I'll bet there is.


Yes there is Zaros and whole streets in the North where people (buy to let landlords)were paying a £1 per house.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> Why shouldnt people live where they like if they can afford to,not taking anything from the country they go to,
> [QUOTE.................
> 
> It saddens me no end that people are more concerned about holidays, and bringing in the Army, water cannons and hoses then basic human welfare and rights.
> ...


But they all don't that's the thing, your son may do now. What's wrong with people coming to the UK and making a better life of themselves? Oh yeah they take all the jobs and housing and benefits, again despite the facts showing they don't..........  But god forbid someone should want to leave their country so they can just stay alive hey.. you can only feel safe and not in threat of death if you have a few bob.........


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Meezey said:


> But they all don't that's the thing, your son may do now. What's wrong with people coming to the UK and making a better life of themselves? Oh yeah they take all the jobs and housing and benefits, again despite the facts showing they don't..........


But the UK is starting to struggle to facilitate the start of that better life as the amount of immigrants arriving in the UK increases. The transition for them is not as simple as you seem to believe, unfortunately.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

bearcub said:


> But the UK is starting to struggle to facilitate the start of that better life as the amount of immigrants arriving in the UK increases. The transition for them is not as simple as you seem to believe, unfortunately.


I don't think it's simple, not at all. The point I am making is Brits are a huge drain on other economy too, and UK is not the only one taking immigrants they aren't all on benefits nor are they entitled to them nor are they taking all the jobs and houses.


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

My point is what are they going to live on you are saying that its ok people going to lie in other countries ,but its not ok for anyone to come to ours and im sayng but people who go to live in Dpain for example can afford it so not a strain on that countrys resouces a difference
Tell me how these migrants are going to live ,what on? no money so we will be giving them handouts which you are denying


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> My point is what are they going to live on you are saying that its ok people going to lie in other countries ,but its not ok for anyone to come to ours and im sayng but people who go to live in Dpain for example can afford it so not a strain on that countrys resouces a difference
> Tell me how these migrants are going to live ,what on? no money so we will be giving them handouts which you are denying


Urrgh do you know what I can't be assed, I've posted reams of information about where the funds are and you seem to be ignoring.. Posted it twice for you in fact........


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

There might be a lot of council houses empty and boarded up, not here but probably will be in inner cities maybe, but our own are being made homeless by the Government ,because they cant now afford the rents plus the bedroom tax has made some homeless so how is anyone else with no job and coming as an immigrant going to managed,and as meezy insists wont get help or benefits,cant see it myself
ZAROS,;Sorry forgot to put quote​


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> There might be a lot of council houses empty and boarded up, not here but probably will be in inner cities maybe, but our own are being made homeless by the Government ,because they cant now afford the rents plus the bedroom tax has made some homeless so how is anyone else with no job and coming as an immigrant going to managed,and as meezy insists wont get help or benefits,cant see it myself
> ZAROS,;Sorry forgot to put quote​





Meezey said:


> Urrgh do you know what I can't be assed, I've posted reams of information about where the funds are and you seem to be ignoring.. Posted it twice for you in fact........


and again......


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Meezey said:


> I don't think it's simple, not at all. The point I am making is Brits are a huge drain on other economy too, and UK is not the only one taking immigrants they aren't all on benefits nor are they entitled to them nor are they taking all the jobs and houses.


I have never subscribed to the hysteria surrounding benefits, jobs and housing as it's simply that, hysteria.

There has to be an acknowledgement however that as the numbers of immigrants arriving increase throughout Europe, facilities such as initial housing - welcome centres I think they're called, foster parents, social workers are put under massive strain. Our standards should not slip because it will leave immigrants, especially youngsters, extremely vulnerable to exploitation, homelessness and poverty in this country. Something has to be done to control the rate of immigration so we can continue to provide the care those who are in most desperate need.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

bearcub said:


> I have never subscribed to the hysteria surrounding benefits, jobs and housing as it's simply that, hysteria.
> 
> There has to be an acknowledgement however that as the numbers of immigrants arriving increase throughout Europe, facilities such as initial housing - welcome centres I think they're called, foster parents, social workers are put under massive strain. Our standards should not slip because it will leave immigrants, especially youngsters, extremely vulnerable to exploitation, homelessness and poverty in this country. Something has to be done to control the rate of immigration so we can continue to provide the care those who are in most desperate need.


I do totally agree, my issue is how dismissive people are of those who need help.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Coz of course all of the UK's problems stem from immigration:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...to-work-at-House-of-Lords.html?fb_ref=Default


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Meezey said:


> I do totally agree, my issue is how dismissive people are of those who need help.


I agree with that totally; I do wonder why some aren't capable of turning the situation on its head and asking themselves what they would do if they were an immigrant...


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

No one is being dismissive ,but everyone is entitled to their opinion, , bearcub has said it,something has to be done to control the rate of immigration and its not being done its a case of who can get in and who cant, there is no control this way, these immigrants who have already got in on the top or in lorrys will probably just disappear, and so will others,


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

If I was an immigrant I would be doing the same,but what do we do have a total open door policy?


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

bearcub said:


> I agree with that totally; I do wonder why some aren't capable of turning the situation on its head and asking themselves what they would do if they were an immigrant...


I was thinking that given that people seem to think that the people are coming here to join Isis etc that they might soon find out, and I'm not sure they would be too happy with their great ideas to fill in the tunnel.............  There but for the grace of god go I, I might not be the best people person, but I do have compassion for those who try to escape awful situations, yes there will always be those who take advantage but some are in desperate need....


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

suewhite said:


> If I was an immigrant I would be doing the same,but what do we do have a total open door policy?


We don't though this is the thing, and this is what I struggle with. Everyone seems to think the the UK is the easy option and everyone is flocking here, that's not the case. Yes something does need to be done, the French need to do something too, but I do find it sad that people are more worried about holidays than the plight of other.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I do wonder about people and their conspiracy theories...............
> 
> Yeah coz of course there aren't any Brits involved
> 
> ...


You really don't have a clue do you?

Fact: IS was in control of Sirte until a day or two ago. Many of the boats full of immigrants to Italy have left from Sirte. IS has been able to control who is on the boats. You do the maths. Maybe IS is really a nice organisation fully of cuddly creatures who are making sure none of their naughty little terrorists are leaving to do bad things in Europe. Seriously, you must live in La La land.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Satori said:


> You really don't have a clue do you?
> 
> Fact: IS was in control of Sirte until a day or two ago. Many of the boats full of immigrants to Italy have left from Sirte. IS has been able to control who is on the boats. You do the maths. Maybe IS is really a nice organisation fully of cuddly creatures who are making sure none of their naughty little terrorists are leaving to do bad things in Europe. Seriously, you must live in La La land.


Well best you get filling in the tunnel..Coz of course they aren't in Europe already and haven't got 500-600 British recruits already..


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Im not worried about them coming over here and scamming all our benefits. I am worried that its a bunch of people who will get here and find themselves being exploited by working for peanuts if they are lucky or adding to the homeless situation if they arent.
But WTH...at least the weather here is varied, so that will be nice!


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Zaros said:


> Are there still countless numbers of Council Houses boarded up and forgotten about in Britain?
> 
> I'll bet there is.


Probably, yes. But I would bet that there are more than enough people on the housing waiting list already to fill them several times over.

Where is the money coming from to bring those properties back into use?


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Meezey said:


> The housing crisis there are not enough affordable houses to BUY..


So houses are standing empty then because so many people will be on such low incomes they'll barely be able to afford them.
'Affordable' just doesn't seem to mean'Affordable' as you and I probably understand the definition of the word. 



suewhite said:


> Yes there is Zaros and whole streets in the North where people (buy to let landlords)were paying a £1 per house.


Ridiculous!

When I served my time on the streets of Britain, there were no less than 200 properties across two of the 8 or more council estates in the city where I lived that were standing empty/boarded up. Yet the homeless figures were increasing almost on a daily basis. Despite this rise, people were still falling short of the devised, point scoring system that was to entitle them to a property.

And I'll bet those same problems are vastly greater today.



Lurcherlad said:


> Probably, yes. *But I would bet that there are more than enough people on the housing waiting list already to fill them several times over.*
> 
> Where is the money coming from to bring those properties back into use?


That'll be the result of that poorly devised and failing point system I briefly mentioned in the above reply to Sue.

Thing about Council houses is this, there's not a single one, occupied or empty, that hasn't paid for itself several hundred times over since it was built, but Councils insisted to flog them off willy-nilly on this right to buy scheme, when council houses were intended for those of us who couldn't really afford to buy. This 'Right to buy' has been a double edged sword that has not only seen an increase in property ownership, but also a rise in housing shortages.


----------



## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I do totally agree, my issue is how dismissive people are of those who need help.


But controlling the chaos, the rough 'survival of the fittest' mentality at the borders, the people trafickers and the criminal gangs who make money from the vulnerable would actually *be* benefitting those that actually do need help. A free for all does not. A free for all never helps the vulnerable.

J


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Zaros said:


> Thing about Council houses is this, there's not a single one, occupied or empty, that hasn't paid for itself several hundred times over since it was built, but Councils insisted to flog them off willy-nilly on this right to buy scheme, when council houses were intended for those of us who couldn't really afford to buy. This 'Right to buy' has been a double edged sword that has not only seen an increase in property ownership, but also a rise in housing shortages.


The RTB back in the times of Margaret Thatcher was most definitely flawed in that the money raised was specifically NOT designated to building more council houses.

The current RTB scheme will, I believe, raise revenue which will be spent on building more council owned properties. That's a start. But we won't see the benefit for years. If the scheme were scrapped, those tenants would remain in those houses and no new ones would be built. Still nowhere for people to move into. There is also a big problem of council properties being fraudulently sub-let at a huge profit by the named tenant - again taking advantage of desperate people with nowhere to live.

However, the reality is that at the moment there are not enough houses in a fit state for those in need, currently, so the fact remains that we do not have anywhere to put any new arrivals. Not to mention all the other services and facilities. Hospitals, schools, etc. Just saw a lady who works in foster care in Kent and she stated that the requirement to foster the many immigrant children arriving there has grown five-fold. It's not a case of, we don't want to help these children, but there are thousands of children currently in care waiting for foster homes already - there just aren't enough.


----------



## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

Meezey said:


> As much as people say different it's also difficult to get benefits in UK.
> 
> Figures are from 2014 national statistics and government authorities.


Totally agree.
And it annoys me a great deal that the media is always leading us to believe that anyone can arrive here and get benefits. Simply not true. 
I was just saying that it is not as easy for a Brit to get UK benefits (or any benefits) abroad as some reports make out.


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

suewhite said:


> think France have taken a lot but many don't want to stay in France they want to come to the UK.


The reason being for the benefits, foot on.I understand they are supposed to stay in the first country they land in.
This is definately not the U.K.


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> Probably, yes. But I would bet that there are more than enough people on the housing waiting list already to fill them several times over.
> 
> Where is the money coming from to bring those properties back into use?


There was a programme recently on T.V. How to get a Council House stated that there are four million people in this country on the Council House list.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Honeys mum said:


> There was a programme recently on T.V. How to get a Council House stated that there are four million people in this country on the Council House list.


There isn't just one single problem - there are so many 

My father's side of the family are from Kent. I'm glad I don't live there now TBH. Saw a poor lady this morning on TV who is heavily pregnant and a "high risk delivery" who lives a 10 minute drive from Ashford maternity hospital where everything is laid on ready for when she goes into labour - however, it's currently taking 90 minutes (I think?) to get there because of all the chaos at the moment. She must be very worried.


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> There isn't just one single problem - there are so many
> 
> My father's side of the family are from Kent. I'm glad I don't live there now TBH. Saw a poor lady this morning on TV who is heavily pregnant and a "high risk delivery" who lives a 10 minute drive from Ashford maternity hospital where everything is laid on ready for when she goes into labour - however, it's currently taking 90 minutes (I think?) to get there because of all the chaos at the moment. She must be very worried.


Yes, some seem to think it's just holiday makers who are affected by the chaos in Kent and Calais. I heard an interview with a florist from Ashford whose business is losing money because she is not getting any deliveries; a holiday may be trivial but this woman's livelihood is not.


----------



## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

What confuses me is that they keep saying these people have nothing, yet they were able to find the thousands of pounds it took to get smuggled here. They are almost all men of working age, and I doubt traffickers offer an interest free credit scheme, so perhaps they aren't as poor as they claim?


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

bearcub said:


> Yes, some seem to think it's just holiday makers who are affected by the chaos in Kent and Calais. I heard an interview with a florist from Ashford whose business is losing money because she is not getting any deliveries; a holiday may be trivial but this woman's livelihood is not.


There are 1000's of trucks with drivers stuck in Operation stack, all the drivers need paying, the trucks loads wont be accepted if past a sell by date (if perishable), the haulage companies are losing thousands of pounds per week in revenue, the goods on the trucks (apart from foods) could be holding up production of items from cars to planes across Europe, UK exporters wont get paid for the goods on the trucks till delivered and signed for, goods not delivered and signed for TODAY wont get invoiced till September now (on 30 days nett), I dont doubt some companies will go to the wall over late deliveries and loss of cash flow

Well done France...


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Plus, of course, Eurotunnel wont be getting revenue from cancelled crossings and they have been running in the red since it opened and its duty free shops have fewer sales


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

If France wanted to hurt the UK economy by just doing nothing i think they have had a success


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

As a matter of fact. what do the men who have families back home come for if leaving their families over their if its so dangerous, and as someone else said they have paid a lot of money to try to get here, we dont even know if they are all genuine asylum seekers ,and how are they going to be checked to make sure they are,,,just take their word for it,?they could have criminal records ,as some already here have been found to have
I feel sorry for all the lorry drivers being stuck on the roads, not knowing what could happen to them and their families must be worried sick,

Just a word about council houses of which there are few now i think ,here anyway,it doesnt go on a points system now ,you have to bid for a property


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Calais crisis: Sniffer dogs don't work, says UK haulier facing ruin | UK | News | Daily Express

If this is the est they can come up with, I think this article says it all.


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Sending sniffer dogs in wont help the situation, where are these people going to go, that is the question,? does David Camerion just expect them to stay there forever? 
The dogs might stop them getting in the tunnel but it doesnt really solve anything
What needs to happen it these people need somewhere to go to and the next lot be stopped from getting into Calais


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

The original post asked when it will all end.

It will end when people start to realise that the fact that they might have to travel a few more hours to get to their holiday destination is as nothing when compared to the horror and misery that these people have seen and endured.

It will end when the rest of the world stops thinking of the refugees as a problem to be kept out at all costs and instead realises that these are people in a desparate plight - people with hopes and dreams and wishes and feelings, people who are in many cases separated from their families or who have seen their families die in horrific circumstances, people who have endured unimaginable horrors and been exploited by human traffickers - perople who need help, not more fences put up against them.

It will end when the rest of the world stops thinking of how helping these people is going to (maybe) adversely affect themselves in their comfortable homes and jobs, and decides to help them instead of turning their backs and expecting every other country to look after them.

It ill end when the rest of the world stops being indoctrinated by governments and the media into believing that these people are either scroungers wanting to live on a country's benefits, immigrants wanting to take their jobs, or terrorist plants.

In other words ... it will never end.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> The original post asked when it will all end.
> 
> It will end when people start to realise that the fact that they might have to travel a few more hours to get to their holiday destination is as nothing when compared to the horror and misery that these people have seen and endured.
> 
> ...


*I'm so proud of you my dear.*
*Jolly well said.*


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> The original post asked when it will all end.
> 
> It will end when people start to realise that the fact that they might have to travel a few more hours to get to their holiday destination is as nothing when compared to the horror and misery that these people have seen and endured.
> 
> ...


Well said.. It's just sickens me that people just won't leave this and keep adding fuel to the BS fire! They are all terrorist, dole scrounging, criminals!!!

Again suppose when have facts ever come in the things like this?? Oh yeah never the facts are ignore in favor of media hype!!! Just so people can have a bitch...

Oh remember when those British Criminals who went to Spain...... ? Oh yeah sorry they had money so that's okay....


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

UK Haulage firms are losing £700,000 per DAY.......when they start going bust remember it could all have been sorted in hours with some good old British army crowd dispersal techniques


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> UK Haulage firms are losing £700,000 per DAY.......when they start going bust remember it could all have been sorted in hours with some good old British army crowd dispersal techniques


The one in the article is already in trouble and having to lay workers off, and there will be more to follow.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> it could all have been sorted in hours with some good old British army crowd dispersal techniques


CB Says YES To Martial Law

Because He Doesn't Want To Tell You Twice.​


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Zaros said:


> CB Says YES To Martial Law
> 
> Because He Doesn't Want To Tell You Twice.​


damn right, our shores are being invaded, our government has a duty to stop it, relying on the French is as much use as buying a chocolate fireguard


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> damn right, our shores are being invaded, *our government has a duty* to stop it.


:Stop It might be worth remembering that your Government only has two duties. One to itself and the one it imposes upon its people.


----------



## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> damn right, our shores are being invaded, our government has a duty to stop it, relying on the French is as much use as buying a chocolate fireguard


The French want rid of them so won't do much. Let's be honest, if they were queuing up at Folkstone to get to Calais we wouldn't be too bothered


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Meezey said:


> Well said.. It's just sickens me that people just won't leave this and keep adding fuel to the BS fire! They are all terrorist, dole scrounging, criminals!!!
> 
> Again suppose when have facts ever come in the things like this?? Oh yeah never the facts are ignore in favor of media hype!!! Just so people can have a bitch...
> 
> Oh remember when those British Criminals who went to Spain...... ? Oh yeah sorry they had money so that's okay....


I hope this isnt aimed at me, my son isnt a criminal and doesnt have pots of money either ,he has earned the money he has, you seem to begrudge anyone going to Spain, like you seemto think i begrudge anyone coming to live here 
Well think what you like, my son is no criminal,he has earned his money, worked hard all his life, why shouldnt he,or anyone else go to live somewhere the sun shines and is warmer than here,which is one reason he went,
Perhaps you would prefer everyone suffered , because some others are, you sound like a very bitter person to me for some reason, maybe you would like o go and live where its nice and warm, Spain maybe?


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I hope this isnt aimed at me, my son isnt a criminal and doesnt have pots of money either ,he has earned the money he has, you seem to begrudge anyone going to Spain, like you seemto think i begrudge anyone coming to live here
> Well think what you like, my son is no criminal,he has earned his money, worked hard all his life, why shouldnt he,or anyone else go to live somewhere the sun shines and is warmer than here,which is one reason he went,
> Perhaps you would prefer everyone suffered , because some others are, you sound like a very bitter person to me for some reason, maybe you would like o go and live where its nice and warm, Spain maybe?


I suspect Meezy is talking about these lovely British lads http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...lice-safe-british-criminals-fugitives-10-list
Nothing in her post mentioned you


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I hope this isnt aimed at me, my son isnt a criminal and doesnt have pots of money either ,he has earned the money he has, you seem to begrudge anyone going to Spain, like you seemto think i begrudge anyone coming to live here
> Well think what you like, my son is no criminal,he has earned his money, worked hard all his life, why shouldnt he,or anyone else go to live somewhere the sun shines and is warmer than here,which is one reason he went,
> Perhaps you would prefer everyone suffered , because some others are, you sound like a very bitter person to me for some reason, maybe you would like o go and live where its nice and warm, Spain maybe?


 Google Costa del Crime and Great Train Robbery?  nuff said really!!!!!!!!


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I hope this isnt aimed at me, my son isnt a criminal and doesnt have pots of money either ,he has earned the money he has, you seem to begrudge anyone going to Spain, like you seemto think i begrudge anyone coming to live here
> Well think what you like, my son is no criminal,he has earned his money, worked hard all his life, why shouldnt he,or anyone else go to live somewhere the sun shines and is warmer than here,which is one reason he went,
> Perhaps you would prefer everyone suffered , because some others are, you sound like a very bitter person to me for some reason, maybe you would like o go and live where its nice and warm, Spain maybe?


Fair comment 

It will never end ...... until the problems that create the issues are tackled.

How that is done - "f**k knows" !?

Free for all and chaos isn't working.

But, just because some people don't think that allowing the free for all and chaos to continue doesn't make them hard hearted, selfish, callous racists who couldn't give a sh*t cos it's not happening to them!

Just one example: People might not be thinking about the fact that their holiday is delayed - but more scared for the safety of their own family perhaps? From what I've seen and heard, that's a fair sentiment.

The current situation serves no-one IMO.

Until somebody comes up with a viable solution that is fair to everyone - it will continue 

Nobody thinks that's OK - it's just the awful reality.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> I hope this isnt aimed at me, my son isnt a criminal and doesnt have pots of money either ,he has earned the money he has, you seem to begrudge anyone going to Spain, like you seemto think i begrudge anyone coming to live here
> Well think what you like, my son is no criminal,he has earned his money, worked hard all his life, why shouldnt he,or anyone else go to live somewhere the sun shines and is warmer than here,which is one reason he went,
> Perhaps you would prefer everyone suffered , because some others are, you sound like a very bitter person to me for some reason, maybe you would like o go and live where its nice and warm, Spain maybe?


To be honest though a lot of these people coming over want work and want to contribute, so just like your son.

They also want a fair life without persecution, living under a dictatorship and the risk of death, so all in all a much more important factor then just a bit more sun, yet you think your son deserving of a nicer life and those who suffer under a completely different regime are not worthy of a better life. I really find a lot of irony in your post asking why he shouldn't be entitled to a sunnier life but you begrudge people basic human rights because of the luck of the draw as to where they were born.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

*Free hotels for the Calais stowaways in soft touch Britain: Outrage as immigrants illegally entering UK get cooked meals and £35 cash a week within days of arrival*

*Migrants given hotel room, three cooked meals a day and £35 cash a week*
*Migrant get a double ensuite room, usually priced at £70 a night *
*The Home Office rushed out plans to strip failed asylum-seeking families of their benefits *
By Brendan Carlin for The Mail on Sunday

Published: 22:01, 1 August 2015 | Updated: 02:56, 2 August 2015

Hundreds of migrants who have smuggled themselves into Britain from Calais are being put up in hotels at taxpayers' expense.

Stowaways who have illegally entered the country on lorries or trains through the Channel Tunnel are being transported across England and given their own hotel room, three cooked meals a day and a cash allowance of £35 a week - all within days of entering the UK.

They are being accommodated in hotels boasting pools, gyms and spas even before claiming asylum, because official reception centres cannot cope with the recent surge in illegal arrivals.

Scroll down for video:









'We're safe': Adam, right, and Muhammad relax at the three-star Best Western Park Hall hotel in Lancashire









Shopping: Adam strolls at a service station nearby with a friend after his epic journey from Darfur

But their presence has angered paying British guests, who have taken to posting reviews on TripAdvisor warning other holidaymakers that otherwise reputable hotels all over the UK have been turned into impromptu 'refugee camps'.

After a week of chaos in Calais that has seen thousands of migrants trying to sneak into Britain - and hundreds succeeding - critics said the decision to house new arrivals in hotels was further evidence that Ministers have lost control.

The Government pays private companies £150 million to accommodate would-be asylum seekers after they have been caught by the police entering the country illegally.

But private contractor Serco has admitted that 100 recent immigrants are staying in hotels as an emergency measure because the country's six dedicated immigration centres, built to accommodate 1,200 people, are already full.

Tory MP Alec Shelbrooke said: 'It is outrageous that asylum seekers are being put up in hotel rooms at public expense. It's this sort of soft touch that makes this country so attractive to migrants. The message should go out that they will be detained in disused military camps.'

In other developments last night:


The Home Office rushed out plans to strip failed asylum-seeking families of their benefits, in a bid to stop Britain being seen as a soft touch.

Another 300 migrants got through security fences in Calais in an attempt to board Eurotunnel trains. 
David Cameron was under pressure to demand the French pay compensation to truckers suffering because of the chaos at the ports.

Ministers warned all councils of a likely increase in asylum seekers needing accommodation.l French authorities threatened to end security and passport checks as they accused the Prime Minister of'outrageous provocation'.

Downing Street announced new security measures, funding extra security guards fencing and CCTV for the Eurotunnel complex.
An investigation by this newspaper has found dozens of migrants are being put up in hotels in Lancashire,having made the perilous journey across the Mediterranean from Africa and the Middle East,and then through Europe.

After finding their way past French police and security guards and getting through the tunnel by train or lorry, the migrants were,they say, only briefly held by police before being handed over to Serco and put up in hotels.









Peaceful surroundings: The hotel was located in the quiet village of Charnock Richard in Lancashire









Asylum seeker Adam says he left his home in South Sudan in 2012 after his village was bombed

Muhammad and Adam, Sudanese men now being put up at a hotel in Lancashire, told how they came to the country. Speaking over tea, paid for by The Mail on Sunday, both men declined to give their surname and neither have any paperwork to enable their stories to be corroborated.

Muhammad said: 'Coming to England is like being reborn. I have a new life now. The hotel is nice and comfortable.We feel safe here. The country is beautiful and food is good.'

Adam told how he fled South Sudan, claiming his village was bombed by fighter jets. He was then held in a refugee camp in 2012.

After working in a restaurant in Chad he said he reached Libya but was held in jail for two months because he could not pay a release fee, and was then kept as a slave on a farm for six months until he ran away.

Earlier this year he made the week-long voyage across the Mediterranean,paying a trafficker $1,500 (£960) for a place alongside more than 300 other migrants in a barely seaworthy boat, and said he saw two young men drown after an onboard fire led to 'panic and fighting'.

Adam, 28, said he spent two months in the notorious Jungle refugee camp near Calais, where he was introduced to an Afghan people smuggler who helped him make it to the UK for €150 (£105).

In late July he followed the man toa fence close to the Eurotunnel terminal. After the man cut through the wire, Adam was led to a parked lorry where the trafficker tore a hole in the soft roof andguided him and 18 other men into a compartment.

After several hours' travelling they knocked on the side of the lorry to let the driver know they were there, and when the door opened they were met by police cars and an officer who allegedly told them:

'Welcome to England.'The group were held in custody overnight before spending three days in a hotel near London. They then joined other migrants in a convoy of three coaches up to Lancashire.

Adam claimed there were up to 100 migrants in each vehicle and that groups of 20 were dropped off at hotels along the way.

Eventually, last Monday, he arrived at the three-star Best Western Park Hall hotel in Chorley, Lancashire,which boasts a banqueting hall,function rooms and a tree-lined lake.

As well as strolling around the 140 acres of wooded countryside, guests who pay about £70 a night for a roomcan also take full advantage of the leisure facilities including two indoor pools, Jacuzzi, gym and spa.









Migrants reportedly received three hot meals a day including sandwiches, chips and pasta bake









Alleged asylum seekers being accommodated at the Best Western Hotel in Charnock Richard, Lancashire

On Friday night, as holidaying families ate meals, asylum seekers wandered around the grounds smoking cigarettes and talking on mobile phones. About 22 asylum seekers are thought to have been given ensuite double rooms at the hotel with Freeview televisions.

They eat in a private room away from other guests and have enjoyed breakfasts of croissants, toast and tea and coffee; lunches of tuna sandwiches with chips and salad and dinners of pasta bake, chips and rice.

Staff from Serco are on site but the asylum seekers are free to leave.

They are given about £5 a day to buy essentials such as toiletries from local shops.They have also been promised free legal aid, and once their asylum claim is being processed they will be entitled to free health care,education and housing potentially worth thousands.

Both Sudanese men said their treatment in Britain was far better than in it had been France, providing a possible explanation as to why so many people are risking their lives trying to board cross-Channel trains.

They claimed that in Calais they were beaten by police, received no food and slept rough.

Speaking through an interpreter, Adam said: 'The situation is really good here, much better than the situations we have been through.'

He has managed to call Sudan and get a message to his mother, who remains in a refugee camp, telling her he had made it to England.









HMS Bulwark prepares for survivors to come on-board after their rescue in the Mediterranean









A migrant trying to board UK bound lorries on the main road into Calais ferry port in July









Stowaways: Migrants attempt to gain access inside a heavy transporter train carriage









Leaping over a tall wired fence, one migrant attempts to enter the Euro tunnel site









Evading capture: Sprinting over the tracks, migrants head for a train at Coquelles in Calais









On the move: Migrants queue up to take turns in crawling underneath the wired fence

Migrants storm past helpless police in Calais









Adam said he is waiting until he is provided with a lawyer to make a formal asylum application, and wants to get a job so he can send money back to his family.

An estimated 70 asylum seekers are also staying at a Britannia hotel in Wigan,which has been dubbed 'Hotel Sangatte' after the infamous refugee camp in Calais.

One migrant said they had been warned by an official not to upset the traditional guests by hanging around the public areas.

Serco said last night that it was housing 100 asylum seekers in hotels but insisted it did not cost taxpayers extra as the money comes out of the general funds it receives from the Home Office.

Hotels are being used as a contingency plan, for the first time in nine months, because the 1,200 places in the six initial accommodation centres run by Serco and G4S are full. G4S is believed to have placed a handful of migrants in hotels in recent weeks but a spokesman said:

'We do not currently have any asylum seekers housed in hotels.'The Home Office said: 'The use of hotels is only ever acceptable as a short-term contingency measure.

We are taking steps to ensure that this is the case.' But Shadow Immigration Minister David Hanson added: 'The Government is continuing to play catch-up over this. They should have anticipated these problems.

David Cameron shouldbe urgently discussing how the French are responding to asylum claims in France.'

Last night, No 10 announced it had agreed new security measures with the French government which has promised 'an increased police presence'in Calais over the summer.

Ministers also threatened a crackdown on benefits for migrants whose asylum claims have been refused.

Asylum applicants with families continue to receive state support even if their bid has been rejected. But the Home Office is now considering withdrawing that support while ensuring protection for children.

*'THIS ISN'T A HOTEL... IT 'S ANOTHER SANGATTE': BRITISH GUESTS' FURY AT MIGRANT-PACKED HOTELS*
British guests have taken to popular review website TripAdvisor to vent their anger at hotels being used to temporarily house would-be asylum seekers.

One hotel, the Britannia Wigan, in Lancashire, was dubbed 'another Sangatte' by a visitor earlier this year, drawing comparisons with the notorious French camp used to house migrants before it was closed in 2002 after pressure from Britain.

The visitor added: 'This is not a hotel, it's a refugee camp!'

The hotel is part of the Britannia chain, which has taken in migrants at several of its properties around the country.









Mail on Sunday reporters found up to 70 African migrants being housed at the Wigan hotel last week - to the surprise of paying guests

We saw one new guest specifically asking about the refugees as he checked in.

'What's going on outside?' he asked, pointing at around eight refugees congregating by a bench and table set a few yards away.

'Nothing,' said the receptionist. The guest looked puzzled but didn't pursue the matter.

Last year at the Daresbury Park Hotel, Cheshire, another guest wrote of asylum seekers on TripAdvisor: 'The WORST bit was the appraising looks and behaviour of these groups of men... not reassuring in a hotel and our waitress let slip that they didn't like being looked up and down either.'

Another TripAdvisor reviewer commented last year on a visit to the Heathlands Hotel, Bournemouth: 'A very average weekend break (with asylum seekers).'


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Satori said:


> *Free hotels for the Calais stowaways in soft touch Britain: Outrage as immigrants illegally entering UK get cooked meals and £35 cash a week within days of arrival*
> '


OMG - cooked meals? How dreadful! How can we possibly give people cooked meals! It's outrageous! Write to your MP immediately!

Well really - what do you want them to do? Sleep on the ground and have nothing but bread and water? These are people, ffs!

As for the rest of your post - being in the Wail it probably has as much truth as the fact that I'm an 18 year old five foot ten slim willowy blonde!.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> Fair comment
> 
> It will never end ...... until the problems that create the issues are tackled.
> 
> ...


Oddly I do see both sides, I just won't buy in to the hype that everyone comes over just to get benefits, or are Criminal, I can point out the hypocrisy of some being allowed to live else where but not extending that right to others be cause they maybe criminals, yet certain countries are know for the hidey holes for British criminals, but its okay that our criminals live elsewhere because they have money, not once have I called anyone "a hard hearted callous racist" but because I can see the hypocrisy I am "very bitter person"?


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

In my own personal opinion; This Mail on Sunday illustrates nothing more than a blatant attempt to stir up yet more ill feeling and unrest amongst the people.
Perhaps those who have shown their obvious disgust and disapproval towards these people would like to explain how the presence of 'Destitute People' in their country detracts from their own personal way of life, other than what the media brainwashes you with.
It might also be a noteworthy effort to investigate further the big corporations who have exploited these 'Third World Countries' thus compacting their plight.

Perhaps some of you might like to try being destitute at some point in your life. It might change both your minds and your hearts.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> I'm an 18 year old five foot ten slim willowy blonde!.


LMAO! It's always so much nicer to be sexy and racy than sexist and racist.


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2015)

Here are some facts about the refugees and where the majority actually moves.
Maybe this statistics puts the question of migration into proper perspective. Looks like the poorest countries deal with millions of refugees without the fuss, where as the rich Europe keeps complaining about a fraction we have. Shame on us.


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

MrsZee said:


> Here are some facts about the refugees and where the majority actually moves.
> Maybe this statistics puts the question of migration into proper perspective. Looks like the poorest countries deal with millions of refugees without the fuss, where as the rich Europe keeps complaining about a fraction we have. Shame on us.


Does make you wonder why Refugees head to certain countries based on the above graphic. E.g Spain has a small percentage compared to neighbouring France. Same for Australia. Though Australia being harder to get to and has much more tougher stance on people coming.

Most of the refugees focus around the Middle East and East Africa again with the wars etc it's to be expected and with some people some of the poorest countries most people won't have the money to pay traffickers to get to Europe, not to mention the sheer volume.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

http://www.dw.com/en/more-than-300000-refugees-seek-asylum-in-germany-in-2015-report/a-18622102

Again other countries are hit harder!! Yet have a very different attitude:

German Justice Minister Heiko Maas (SPD) has demanded better protection of asylum seekers.

"Regardless of the reasons why people come to us and how long they stay - we must protect them better," wrote Maas in an article for RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland.


----------



## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> To be honest though a lot of these people coming over want work and want to contribute, so just like your son.
> 
> They also want a fair life without persecution, living under a dictatorship and the risk of death, so all in all a much more important factor then just a bit more sun, yet you think your son deserving of a nicer life and those who suffer under a completely different regime are not worthy of a better life. I really find a lot of irony in your post asking why he shouldn't be entitled to a sunnier life but you begrudge people basic human rights because of the luck of the draw as to where they were born.


I *DO NOT begrudge anyone a better life by coming over here,* for some reason my comments have been misunderstood, 
If these people are genuine asylum seekers, refugees ,whatever you like to call them, but how do we know ? can checks be made? and how? they all deserve a better life if they are genuine, but are they all genuine, some say some of them are economic migrants, they paid a lot of money to get here
As far as meezys comment is concerned,she keeps harping on about my son living in Spain, WHY?sounds like she begrudges anyone moving to another country from here
Anyway im out cant be bothered with the hassle


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I *DO NOT begrudge anyone a better life by coming over here,* for some reason my comments have been misunderstood,
> If these people are genuine asylum seekers, refugees ,whatever you like to call them, but how do we know ? can checks be made? and how? they all deserve a better life if they are genuine, but are they all genuine, some say some of them are economic migrants, they paid a lot of money to get here
> As far as meezys comment is concerned,she keeps harping on about my son living in Spain, WHY?sounds like she begrudges anyone moving to another country from here
> Anyway im out cant be bothered with the hassle


Nope I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy, I lived in Germany for more than half my life, my father retired to Cyprus. I am all for everyone being able to move to make a better life for themselves, you seem to be the one who has difficulty with that, difference is I haven't resulted in personal insults I've given you facts which you chose to ignore.

ie they don't come here for benefits as they are not entitled to them.
Are they criminals? Chances are they are not, but there are also a hell of a lot of British criminals who flee to other countries

They don't all flock to the UK a very small amount do.

If you think I am bitter for that so be it, but I'd rather deal with facts that what the media puts out!


----------



## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm really shocked about how people talk about these poor people and yes, I know it's an issue, but they are people, displaced for many reasons. 

We are so lucky in the UK, it's luck of the draw where we're born, into wealth and safety or poverty and terror.... of course people would choose to come to country where they can be safe! 

It's so sad.... no idea what the answer is, but personally I find the whole 'them and us' rhetoric rather disturbing. 

The way England is going, the less fortunate will be queuing up on the Scottish border soon lol


----------



## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

The UK may have a poor attitude towards immigrants but look at what is happening in other countries.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-31588821

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25007379

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/22/united-arab-emirates-trapped-exploited-abused


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

negative creep said:


> The French want rid of them so won't do much. Let's be honest, if they were queuing up at Folkstone to get to Calais we wouldn't be too bothered


its only daft English holidaymakers and desperate UK hauliers wanting to get across


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Meezey said:


> German Justice Minister Heiko Maas (SPD) has demanded better protection of asylum seekers.
> 
> "Regardless of the reasons why people come to us and how long they stay - we must protect them better," wrote Maas in an article for RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland.


Doubtless not many Jews will be rushing to Germany with that countries far from envious record on migrant welfare?


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

*Spellweaver said: ↑
I'm an 18 year old five foot ten slim willowy blonde!.*

His name is Sven and he is a student in Sweden....


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Haven't read all the replies (nearly, but not quite).

I can see both sides of this. Obviously, the situation at Calais is out of control and current security measures are obviously not enough. Nobody living 10mins from a hospital should be facing a travelling time 9 times as long to get to that same hospital. Delivery drivers should have the right to do their jobs in safety. Companies depending on those deliveries should be able to expect their arrival on time, or as close as possible to that time in order to complete orders. Companies shouldn't be facing a loss of profits and potentially going under because of the situation at Calais.

However, for those who think we should call in the Armed Forces, or electrify the wire fences (seriously? WTF?), would you be willing to be the first in line to touch that fence, or the one staring down the barrel of a rifle? No? Then how _dare _you suggest we treat other human beings like that?

I don't have the answer. I don't claim to know what should be done. But all I see when I see the news footage of the situation in Calais (admittedly rarely, because I have better things to do with my time than watch the biased mainstream media feed half-truths to the indoctrinated gullible), is sheer desperation. Somebody somewhere has told them that life here is a bunch of roses and a Sunday afternoon stroll in the park. They've left out, or skimmed over the fact that the "roses" have thorns, and the "stroll in the park" is likely to be a mad-dash for cover in torrential rain . They're desperate. They're risking their lives to get here. They want to - possibly NEED to - cling on to any hope they have.

People argue that they're taking our jobs. Which jobs would that be, then? Would they be the ones that our own unemployed refuse to take because "I have a degree - that kind of work is beneath me"? Or, (and I can personally vouch for this because it comes from a relative and she told me herself), "I won't take that job because it means missing Eastenders!" Yes, seriously! A local betting shop offered her a promotion from her cleaning job, to a job behind the till, complete with training, but she turned it down because she'd miss her favourite TV soap!

I know it's been said already, but, there but for the grace of God...


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

If the stories of putting up refugees in hotels is true, then surely that same solution should be applied to the many people who are already living on our streets? Some having been struggling to survive under a bridge for years, with drug and alcohol problems and mental health with little or no support. Why aren't we helping these people in the same way - is their need any less valid? 

Do we have the infrastructure/funds to provide this and cope with the demand? 

Will that solution improve the situation or make it worse? 

Just open the borders completely - there will be plenty of room because a lot of the indigenous population will have gone.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> If the stories of putting up refugees in hotels is true, then surely that same solution should be applied to the many people who are already living on our streets? Some having been struggling to survive under a bridge for years, with drug and alcohol problems and mental health with little or no support. Why aren't we helping these people in the same way - is their need any less valid?
> 
> Do we have the infrastructure/funds to provide this and cope with the demand?
> 
> ...


I volunteer for a homeless charity here, and you'd be surprised at those who would rather live on the streets than accept help for their addictions. Some not all. You can't help those who don't want to be helped, be they homeless or functioning addict...Again its not true to say they are not helped in the same way!


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Meezey said:


> I volunteer for a homeless charity here, and you'd be surprised at those who would rather live on the streets than accept help for their addictions. Some not all. You can't help those who don't want to be helped, be they homeless or functioning addict...


I'm aware of that - but there are many that do want help - and certainly in the early days before they fall desperately into the mire. Why shouldn't they be offered a room at a hotel and subsistence payments?


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> If the stories of putting up refugees in hotels is true, then surely that same solution should be applied to the many people who are already living on our streets? Some having been struggling to survive under a bridge for years, with drug and alcohol problems and mental health with little or no support. Why aren't we helping these people in the same way - is their need any less valid?
> 
> Do we have the infrastructure/funds to provide this and cope with the demand?
> 
> ...


Have you considered that some of the illegals might be criminals on the run and wouldnt pass for entry under the most lax of entry tests? then someone gets killed/mugged/raped here and you get the headlines "Rapist was wanted in Somalia for war crimes", etc, etc....


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Lurcherlad said:


> I'm aware of that - but there are many that do want help - and certainly in the early days before they fall desperately into the mire. Why shouldn't they be offered a room at a hotel and subsistence payments?


They are offered hostels and rooms but have to be sober to stay there. This morning delivered my usual sandwiches and coffee to the guys in Belfast, making sure they were okay and the sleeping bag and tents they were given were still okay, they were all happy drunk but happy...


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)




----------



## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

I listened to Any Answers on Saturday and a gentleman phoned in to say that the solution was to open an office in Calais to interview the refugees and decide who to allow in. Very sweet, but has he seen the footage? I don't see people forming orderly queues to be 'processed', do you?

While I generally find myself on the liberal humanitarian side of this discussion, I do think a major problem is the general rule that, if you have no papers, you have to be allowed to stay (albeit sometimes only temporarily) in the country whose border you have crossed. This means that it is impossible for us to tell who is a genuine refugee, and who is an economic migrant. If this rule was changed and no papers meant no entry, it would encourage people to keep hold of their documentation in order to prove their case. However these doesn't help those who are fleeing in terror with just the clothes on their backs.

Perhaps the answer is to just let people go where they will, but for governments to pay for more efficient policing so that, when someone commits a crime, they are dealt with appropriately rather than just allowed to carry on their merry way....


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Have you considered that some of the illegals might be criminals on the run and wouldnt pass for entry under the most lax of entry tests? then someone gets killed/mugged/raped here and you get the headlines "Rapist was wanted in Somalia for war crimes", etc, etc....


Yes I have - I'm not the one saying we should just let everyone in, willy nilly. I don't think we look after our own needy as it is, was the point I was trying to make. Our country is in it's own downward spiral already, IMO.

My comment about opening the borders was me being facetious. But, that seems to be what a lot of people are practically suggesting we should do.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> I listened to Any Answers on Saturday and a gentleman phoned in to say that the solution was to open an office in Calais to interview the refugees and decide who to allow in. Very sweet, but has he seen the footage? I don't see people forming orderly queues to be 'processed', do you?
> 
> While I generally find myself on the liberal humanitarian side of this discussion, I do think a major problem is the general rule that, if you have no papers, you have to be allowed to stay (albeit sometimes only temporarily) in the country whose border you have crossed. This means that it is impossible for us to tell who is a genuine refugee, and who is an economic migrant. If this rule was changed and no papers meant no entry, it would encourage people to keep hold of their documentation in order to prove their case. However these doesn't help those who are fleeing in terror with just the clothes on their backs.
> 
> *Perhaps the answer is to just let people go where they will, but for governments to pay for more efficient policing so that, when someone commits a crime, they are dealt with appropriately rather than just allowed to carry on their merry way...*.


Yeah - that'll work


----------



## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

Lurcherlad said:


> Yeah - that'll work


And I suppose you have a better idea....?


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> And I suppose you have a better idea....?


No, I think I've made that clear in my posts, but that is just about the worst one IMO


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Off to find my own deserted island ................... seems to be the best idea!


----------



## silvi (Jul 31, 2014)

I don't have the answer to this problem, but it seems I'm not alone.

As the grandchild of a mixture of (what would now be called) asylum seekers and economic migrants, I would be a hypocrite if I complained about people coming to live in the UK from abroad.
At the same time, I do realise that what is now a complete cluster**** has to be sorted out somehow.

But as someone who has lived abroad myself, I have to ask why people are willing to risk their lives, their family ties, and the loss of everything they know and hold dear to make the journey here.
Leaving your home and family and everything you know isn't easy, but when things are good, you take a chance, knowing that you have somewhere to go back to if things go wrong, but when you are risking life and limb and know there is nothing safe 'back home' for you, that makes the situation totally desperate.

And I'm going to take things further here than just asylum seekers. Because I think that for many who under government rulings would be classed as 'economic migrants' are often pretty desperate too. So, personally, I would feel like a total hypocrite to argue that economic migrants should not be allowed to come here, while asylum seekers should be allowed. In both cases the need can often be acute.

The long term solution has to be that people feel safe in their own countries and in their own homes, rather than risking everything to travel abroad in the hope of safety or a better life.
But while Western governments keep on trying to impose their 'solutions' onto countries they know **** all about, this is not going to happen any time soon.

The short term solution - I really don't know, apart from that countries in Europe need to work together, openly and honestly to find a solution, rather than trying to push the problem onto individual countries.


----------



## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> Have you considered that some of the illegals might be criminals on the run and wouldnt pass for entry under the most lax of entry tests? then someone gets killed/mugged/raped here and you get the headlines "Rapist was wanted in Somalia for war crimes", etc, etc....


Considering the amount of laws they've broken trying to get in I'm doubtful they'd respect ours too much. We need to begin at the source and stop towing them into Italy as well. Once word gets out as to how hard it is to get in the numbers will drop.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

negative creep said:


> Considering the amount of laws they've broken trying to get in I'm doubtful they'd respect ours too much. We need to begin at the source and stop towing them into Italy as well. Once word gets out as to how hard it is to get in the numbers will drop.


Its one thing to try sneaking in, its another if they are not willing to apply for asylum (as many do) because they have dodgy pasts....


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Id send a plane over calais and drop multi-lingual leaflets about new UK benefit laws, 3 million unemployed, lack of housing and the weather....they may go back to Italy


----------



## shadowmare (Jul 7, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Id send a plane over calais and drop multi-lingual leaflets about new UK benefit laws, 3 million unemployed, lack of housing and the weather....they may go back to Italy


their prospects here are still better than back home. And that is all that matters to them.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

shadowmare said:


> their prospects here are still better than back home. And that is all that matters to them.


They THINK its better, educate them different and they may change their minds

In fact it would be cheaper and safer to give them £600 a year to stay in Somalia


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Immigrants living in Britain illegally will face abrupt eviction from rental properties under new laws designed to make Britain a tougher place to live in, the government will announce as it redoubles its response to the Calais migrant crisis.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ourt-order-under-plans-to-discourage-migrants


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

http://www.desiblitz.com/content/illegal-immigrants-living-in-uk-slums


----------



## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Calais crisis: French port compared to a 'WARZONE' and ferry workers torch tyres | World | News | Daily Express

This is the latest.

Nigel Farage speaks out over 'dangerous situation' in Calais | Watch the video - Yahoo Yahoo UK

Begining to think that N.F. maybe right.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Honeys mum said:


> Nigel Farage speaks out over 'dangerous situation' in Calais | Watch the video - Yahoo Yahoo UK
> 
> Begining to think that N.F. maybe right.


Only now?..... Border Security 1st migrant compassion last


----------

