# Puppy toilet training going backwards



## Lesleyespringers (Jan 23, 2013)

Hi everyone, me again

Brodie is now four months old and for the last three weeks, we are going backwards with his toilet training.

When we brought him home at 8+4 he would go to the pee pads to have both pee's and poo's, he did really really well and we were happy how we were going.

Once he had his vacs and we were able to take him out with our other two he had no problems having a pee or poo out on a walk and likewise he is fine in the garden.

When he does have an accident, we do not shout at him or tell him off, we just ignore it and when he does go on the pad, he gets lots of praise.

Where am I going wrong??? The last week I have tried to take him back to basic's but it is not happening. For example there can be a pad in front of him and he will walk past it and pee on the floor!!!

He is also peeing and pooing in his bed, he sleep's in a crate has done since we brought him home. only now and again do we get a dry crate in the morning!!!

Please help.

Thank you, Lesley


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## danielblackmore (May 29, 2012)

A few things stood out really from what you have said.

I see you are using a crate AND training pads. Since he is use to a crate I would ditch the pads as you will make double the work for yourself having to train him to go on the pads again and then training away from the pads. The crate will help you better going outside where he is ment to go.

When he wakes up in the morning, do you put him straight outside or do you let him do what he wants to?

I am surprised he has gone through the night at that age without needing to go to the toilet, if he is wetting the bed I would maybe think about letting him go outside during the night by setting your alarm and taking him out.

Dogs will not generally go to the toilet where they sleep, so I would assume he really needs to go and if he is locked in, there is no where else he can. Make sure you wash his bed in biological washing power to remove the odors from his bed otherwise will do it again. You can also try the odor scent removers from pet stores.

I would have a look at some Crate training resources to aid you with toilet training rather than the pads.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...s=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

I find the hardest part of crate training is getting them use to the crate, since you are pretty much there already, I think you will benefit from this method more than pads


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## Lesleyespringers (Jan 23, 2013)

danielblackmore said:


> A few things stood out really from what you have said.
> 
> I see you are using a crate AND training pads. Since he is use to a crate I would ditch the pads as you will make double the work for yourself having to train him to go on the pads again and then training away from the pads. The crate will help you better going outside where he is ment to go.
> 
> ...


Hi there
Thank you for the reply.
As soon as we get up, I let Brodie out his cage and he goes to say hello to the other two boys then we are straight into the garden, 90% of the time he will have a pee and a poo.
When we first brought him home, we put the pad at one end of the cage and his bed was the other end, he would get out his bed and go pee on the pad then go back to his bed, but now he is just peeing where ever he feels like it.
I will certainly ditch the pads and follow a tight route-en from today.
We have had no problems with him in his cage at all, I think is is due to the breeder keeping them in a cage in the kitchen since they were born.
I never thought of doubling the work by putting the pad in the cage to be honest.
He gets two 20 mins walks per day with my old Lab and the rest of the time he is taken into the garden, he is always supervised, so that when he does go, he gets lots of praise.
Ive also notice the amount of poo he does seems to be a lot greater than what he is fed!!
Anyway, I will be ditching the pads and see how we go, I will also get up during the night with him now too.
Thank you again for your reply.
Lesley


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## danielblackmore (May 29, 2012)

You seem to be doing things right. See how you get on with no pads.

With the poop my Brodie is like that still at 9 months. Althoguh has started to settle down when I put him on a better food. 

What food is he on?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Lesleyespringers said:


> Hi everyone, me again
> 
> Brodie is now four months old and for the last three weeks, we are going backwards with his toilet training.
> 
> ...


If you still have pads thats possibly a lot of your problem, if they are trained on pads or had pads/paper at the breeders and thats all they have pre-known and going in the house, then if you still have pads it just confuses them, as on one hand you are trying to teach them outside is the only acceptable place, but on the other you still have pads there, giving the message that inside the house is equally acceptable still. That leads to a dog usually who still does both. Many people find if they ditch the pads altogether and soley concentrate on outside and re-enforcing that, it soon gets better. As they can go outside wherever and thats acceptable they often start to ignore the pads and do it anywhere inside too.

At 4 months they also have limited capacity still both in time they can hold it and for the amount they can hold at one time. They also dont always recognise the need to go or realise too late and get caught short too, especially if pre-occupied with other things.

I would ditch the pads and still take him out about every 30/45 minutes in the garden, when he starts use a cue word of choice, used all the time they asssociate the word with toileting eventually and once they do you can use it as a toilet cue/command often getting them to pee on command in a lot of cases. When he has finished lots of praise and treats still to re-enforce he has got it right. They also need taking out after drinking, eating, play and sleeping as they usually need to go then too.

if he has accidents as you are doing dont tell him off as it can make them nervous about going in front of you and more likely to sneak off and do it. Also clean up with a special pet stain odour remover as any smells left will encourage repeats in the same places.

Look out for circling, sniffing or scratching about its often a sign they are looking for somewhere to go so get him out quick, although sometimes you dont see it until later as said at first they dont always recognise the need or realise too late.

The crate is only an aid to toilet training. Given the opportunity most dogs wont soil their bed, surrounding area or where they eat, left in there too long though, they will do it if they have too. If he cant go through the night and he doent cry or whine to tell you at the moment, or he isnt within sight and sound of you so that if he wakes or stirs you can take him out, then try setting an alarm once or twice and pop him out that way. Its usually not long until they are going right through until early morning.


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## Lesleyespringers (Jan 23, 2013)

danielblackmore said:


> You seem to be doing things right. See how you get on with no pads.
> 
> With the poop my Brodie is like that still at 9 months. Althoguh has started to settle down when I put him on a better food.
> 
> What food is he on?


He came from the breeders on Beta puppy but I have now got him settled on Orijen.
If I had the room it would have been raw for all dogs, but I just do not have the room or storage :nonod:
Hopefully things will start settling down, he was doing so well, so I was a bit shocked when he started going back the way.
Ive never had this with my old Lab or my other two springers!!
Thank you again for your help and advice :smile5:


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## mariebx19 (Mar 14, 2013)

I got my dog at 6 weeks old and she only did the toilet in the house for 1 or 2 days.what i did was take her out in the garden every 30-60 minutes,when she did the the toilet she got alot of praise,when she done it inside i would take her to where she peed and say 'whats that-no' it isnt exactly a mean thing to do and she definately isnt traumatised by it  maybe because you ignore it he doesnt know it is something he shouldnt be doing.


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## Lesleyespringers (Jan 23, 2013)

Sled dog hotel said:


> If you still have pads thats possibly a lot of your problem, if they are trained on pads or had pads/paper at the breeders and thats all they have pre-known and going in the house, then if you still have pads it just confuses them, as on one hand you are trying to teach them outside is the only acceptable place, but on the other you still have pads there, giving the message that inside the house is equally acceptable still. That leads to a dog usually who still does both. Many people find if they ditch the pads altogether and soley concentrate on outside and re-enforcing that, it soon gets better. As they can go outside wherever and thats acceptable they often start to ignore the pads and do it anywhere inside too.
> 
> At 4 months they also have limited capacity still both in time they can hold it and for the amount they can hold at one time. They also dont always recognise the need to go or realise too late and get caught short too, especially if pre-occupied with other things.
> 
> ...


We have taken all the pads away now. I never really thought about it as you have described 
He was out for his evening walk of 20 mins with the old boy at 8.45pm ish (oh took other springer down the golf course and is still out) he came home, had a sleep, when he woke we went into the garden, he had a pee, word we are using is pee pee as I found my other springer that I lost in December this worked great. As he went I repeated pee pee a couple of times, once he was done he got lots of praise and treat. He really like praise and is very proud of himself :smile5:
He is sleeping again, once he wakes I will take him into the garden again and use the pee pee words, I am then going to take him out about midnight, then I have set the alarm for 4am then we are up at 7am.
The problem is when he is needing the toilet when he is in his cage, he doesn't cry to let us know, I did notice today, when I put him in his cage at lunch time so we could eat, he started getting a bit distressed, so I took him straight to the garden, where he had mini zoomies for a few seconds then a sniff and a poo, word we are using is poo poo!!! :smile5:
Hopefully with a bit patience and time we will get back on track again.
Thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Lesleyespringers said:


> We have taken all the pads away now. I never really thought about it as you have described
> He was out for his evening walk of 20 mins with the old boy at 8.45pm ish (oh took other springer down the golf course and is still out) he came home, had a sleep, when he woke we went into the garden, he had a pee, word we are using is pee pee as I found my other springer that I lost in December this worked great. As he went I repeated pee pee a couple of times, once he was done he got lots of praise and treat. He really like praise and is very proud of himself :smile5:
> He is sleeping again, once he wakes I will take him into the garden again and use the pee pee words, I am then going to take him out about midnight, then I have set the alarm for 4am then we are up at 7am.
> The problem is when he is needing the toilet when he is in his cage, he doesn't cry to let us know, I did notice today, when I put him in his cage at lunch time so we could eat, he started getting a bit distressed, so I took him straight to the garden, where he had mini zoomies for a few seconds then a sniff and a poo, word we are using is poo poo!!! :smile5:
> ...


Sounds like without the pads and a crash course in toileting again he will soon get back on track.


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## Lesleyespringers (Jan 23, 2013)

I am a very happy owner this morning and Brodie was a star during the night.

We ditched the pads, I had the alarm set for during the night but before it went off he cried for the first time to let me know he needed a pee :smile5:

I got up, we spend 15 mins in the garden, he had a big pee, while he went I repeated pee pee a few times then he got loads of praise, he was very proud of himself too :smile5:

He then woke up at 6.30, so I got up straight into the garden an another pee and a poo, we have had one small accident in the house so far today, but that was my fault, I never picked up his signal in time and he pee'd.

But so far so good and I feel I am getting back into a more positive step with him now.
No more pads, thats for sure.

Thank you again Sled dog hotel and danielblackmore, your advice was spot on.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Lesleyespringers said:


> I am a very happy owner this morning and Brodie was a star during the night.
> 
> We ditched the pads, I had the alarm set for during the night but before it went off he cried for the first time to let me know he needed a pee :smile5:
> 
> ...


So glad he is a lot better today, onward and upward as they say should get easier from now on.


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## VickiGS (Feb 13, 2013)

Baxter has been doing really well with his toilet training, but lately, as soon as I get in from work, we take him out & he goes then 5/10mins later he looks us in the eye & pees on the floor! He doesn't give any signs, like sniffing or standing the way he usually does. It's like he's challenging us!

We have stopped putting pads in his crate, because he was eating them! & he hasn't weed or pooed in his crate since we took the pads out. 

I think he forgets about the pads/doing it outside sometimes. He is only 9wks old after all.

Good luck!


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