# breeding staffordshire bull terriers



## growler1961 (Nov 2, 2007)

look on our web site Blue Staffordshire bull Terrier Stud dog/ pups portsmouth hampshire
view our mating tips page (includes health testing requirements)
pregnancy and whelping page
our web site may helpfull to new breeders


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## poochimama (Apr 24, 2008)

just looking through ur site its a gr8 site , very informative and great to see the puppies growing week to week in pics . lots of useful info to any dog breeder with any breed well done
and what amazing dogs u have !!


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2008)

nice looking dogs...i think the charging people that ave used ur stud dog a fee to advirtise on ur site is abit tight fisted, sorry to sound harsh but its true.
can i ask why u charge them a fee???


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2008)

Eolabeo said:


> nice looking dogs...i think the charging people that ave used ur stud dog a fee to advirtise on ur site is abit tight fisted, sorry to sound harsh but its true.
> can i ask why u charge them a fee???


Also price should reflect quality I feel,it should not be based on what the parents cost or the colour of the puppies.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Also price should reflect quality I feel,it should not be based on what the parents cost or the colour of the puppies.


very much Agree.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

If you're after constructive comments, I found the writing at the top hard to read, as the blue sort of blends in with the black. Maybe it's just my age though..... 

Something I found out very recently was that the KC are urging people not to breed Staffords, as the apparently up to 80% of dogs in rescues are Staffs or Staff crosses. 

Also, as price has been mentioned, I personally think all pups from a litter should be priced the same, as any pup will only show potential at that point. i also do not believe there should be drastic difference in prices between litters, but then again, it might be different in my breed.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

jackson said:


> If you're after constructive comments, I found the writing at the top hard to read, as the blue sort of blends in with the black. Maybe it's just my age though.....
> 
> Something I found out very recently was that the KC are urging people not to breed Staffords, as the apparently up to 80% of dogs in rescues are Staffs or Staff crosses.
> 
> Also, as price has been mentioned, I personally think all pups from a litter should be priced the same, as any pup will only show potential at that point. i also do not believe there should be drastic difference in prices between litters, but then again, it might be different in my breed.


I would also so like to say the best looking pup can change when they grow up you never can tel how a pup may turn out lol


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2008)

jackson said:


> If you're after constructive comments, I found the writing at the top hard to read, as the blue sort of blends in with the black. Maybe it's just my age though.....
> 
> Something I found out very recently was that the KC are urging people not to breed Staffords, as the apparently up to 80% of dogs in rescues are Staffs or Staff crosses.
> 
> Also, as price has been mentioned, I personally think all pups from a litter should be priced the same, as any pup will only show potential at that point. i also do not believe there should be drastic difference in prices between litters, but then again, it might be different in my breed.


No it's no different in SBT's and the guide price is around £500 to £600,but you will always get those who are willing to exploit the breed purely for fiancial gain.
One thing that really bugs me is why breed for a specific colour,surely health conformation,type and temprement should come before colour.
From what I've seen on this forum and free ads sites the above breeder does seem to breed frequently and his stud dog is also used an awful lot.
Two litters from the same bitch,one in feb 2007 and another in Jan 2008,another litter due aug 2008 different bitch,this is an awful lot of pups been produced.


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## kevin (Aug 1, 2008)

I agree with most of the above, 

To put in my 2pence worth, the website is poorly built (slow load time, alignment of pictures and text is wrong and colour co-ordination is terrible). I dont know if you built that yourself or paid for it but I've produced more professional websites for free.

As for the dogs I'm not too familliar with staff prices but I wouldn't even dream of paying over £550 for a pup. My bulldog was a pure bred pup from a licenced breeder and I only paid £460 and got a full starter kit for free.

I've never owned a staff so I'm unsure about that stats but i agree with the person above as in colour should be the last part. Any breeder will look at the health, temprement etc before the colour.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

kevin said:


> I agree with most of the above,
> 
> To put in my 2pence worth, the website is poorly built (slow load time, alignment of pictures and text is wrong and colour co-ordination is terrible). I dont know if you built that yourself or paid for it but I've produced more professional websites for free.
> 
> ...


I am not sure what KC registered, health tested and well bred SBT's sell for. But surely it must be around the £500 mark?

£460 for a Bulldog? WOW that is cheap!... I see most selling for around the £1500+ most around £2000...


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

kevin said:


> I agree with most of the above,
> 
> To put in my 2pence worth, the website is poorly built (slow load time, alignment of pictures and text is wrong and colour co-ordination is terrible). I dont know if you built that yourself or paid for it but I've produced more professional websites for free.
> 
> ...


Im sorry but i agree with kay on this if u want a decent staff u will pay between £500 -£600 no doubt about it. Im a dubious about u paying £460 for a bulldog 

On a seperate not i did like the website had plenty of info but again not impressed that u are trying to make money from a diluted black colour, also your website states blue is a recognised colour  I may be wrong on this but i didn't think it was as it is just a diluted black?


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Kay2008 said:


> I am not sure what KC registered, health tested and well bred SBT's sell for. But surely it must be around the £500 mark?
> 
> £460 for a Bulldog? WOW that is cheap!... I see most selling for around the £1500+ most around £2000...


That's right a well bred health tested puppy is around £500-£600.


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

growler1961 said:


> view our mating tips page (includes health testing requirements)
> pregnancy and whelping page
> our web site may helpfull to new breeders


As others have said, considering the huge numbers of Staffs and Staff crosses in rescue, and the huge numbers for sale on the internet, I would have thought that encouraging new breeders should be the very last consideration of the responsible Staff owner.

Although the website claims that one of the stud dogs is a _"Good representative of the breed, meeting breed standards" _ - there is no independent verification of this as the dogs do not appear to be shown and judged against the breed standard by competent breed experts.

To be honest, if I were looking for a Staff, this is one website I would give a definite "miss" to!

Mick


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Jem85 said:


> Im sorry but i agree with kay on this if u want a decent staff u will pay between £500 -£600 no doubt about it. Im a dubious about u paying £460 for a bulldog
> 
> On a seperate not i did like the website had plenty of info but again not impressed that u are trying to make money from a diluted black colour, also your website states blue is a recognised colour  I may be wrong on this but i didn't think it was as it is just a diluted black?


Hi Jem,
Blue is a recognised colour and is written into the breed standard.
Not many are shown because the standard calls for a black nose and dark eyes,this can be a problem in blues as you rightly pointed out it is a dilute black resulting in pigmentation faults,i.e light eyes,grey nose etc...


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Hi Jem,
> Blue is a recognised colour and is written into the breed standard.
> Not many are shown because the standard calls for a black nose and dark eyes,this can be a problem in blues as you rightly pointed out it is a dilute black resulting in pigmentation faults,i.e light eyes,grey nose etc...


Oh i knew it was something like that. sorry my mistake  x


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## Dennyboy (Jan 3, 2008)

good bits were great information and some beautiful dogs,and well done for your health testing,big thumbs up for that.

But it doesnt cost more to raise a girl than it does to raise a boy,or a different colour.-not indicated at you as i didnt look at prices-

Also the Stafford is a standard dog of standard height NOT short and stocky with a short muzzle  this is where the palate and breathing problem start.

You class yourselves as hobby breeders.Sorry just my opinion again but breeding should not be done as a hobby,it should be done to further the breed and improve on what you already have (although the ones you have are always the best).

But on the whole the bits i looked at were impresive


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## Dennyboy (Jan 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> Hi Jem,
> Blue is a recognised colour and is written into the breed standard.
> Not many are shown because the standard calls for a black nose and dark eyes,this can be a problem in blues as you rightly pointed out it is a dilute black resulting in pigmentation faults,i.e light eyes,grey nose etc...


which can also lead to softness in the bone density,eg.soft teeth.

Although i do like the steel grey colour  i would never buy a blue because of the dilute gene.

You find that people who breed for the blue colour are under the illusion that they are rare  they then lead the new owners to beleive the same,and so it continues.

I will look through my SBT book about last years blue numbers and will post the figures.

Remembering that will only be for the registered number.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Dennyboy said:


> which can also lead to softness in the bone density,eg.soft teeth.
> 
> Although i do like the steel grey colour  i would never buy a blue because of the dilute gene.
> 
> ...


Totally Agree Mel 

Some figures would be great


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## Dennyboy (Jan 3, 2008)

argh its not in the one i thought it was so will trawl through the others 
Did find this though:

The analysis of the KC breed records supplimant has shown how the breed can be taken over by opporunist breders.
The dog with the highest number of matings for 2006 will not be seen in any show catalogues.
The next two on the list both have the word blue in their names then it is a show dog.....

I get the BRS (im a nosey bag ) and there is so many blue pups registered im suprised anyone can get away woth saying they are rare 

Will look for my other annual.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Dennyboy said:


> Did find this though:
> 
> The analysis of the KC breed records supplimant has shown how the breed can be taken over by opporunist breders.
> The dog with the highest number of matings for 2006 will not be seen in any show catalogues.
> ...


Errrrrmm,why am I not surprised 
I bet the amount of Blues registered now is nearly on par with the black brindles and reds etc,infact I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were more blues registered than reds.

It's quite shocking that still people continue to believe they are rare.


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## Dennyboy (Jan 3, 2008)

Oops have just done a bit more research and found out the most used dog in 2006 was a blue something  then a red,then another blue something and then a Champion dog 

Cant find the other i was looking for so will do my own bit with the BRS i have here for the start of 2008 and let you know  Damn im so nosey  but i like to do my research so i know what im on about and its not just hearsay  will be back later.....


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Lol Mel,I'm nosey too 

Claire Lee was saying a few weeks back that CH dogs are not used an awful lot,but there are an awful lot breeding just for the sake of it.

Can't remember exactly what she wrote but it was along those lines,it was in the Dog World.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

I presume that blues are the new fashion accessory?


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

well i am going to be honest and say-i dont realy like the blues-sorry guys


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

cavrooney said:


> well i am going to be honest and say-i dont realy like the blues-sorry guys


I do like them but prefer the reds or brindles


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Jem85 said:


> I presume that blues are the new fashion accessory?


I would differ slightly and say they are been bred mostly for fiancial gain 
Thankfully the price has now started to fall away from them,so hopefully this trend will continue,yes you will still get litters advertised for OTT Prices,but if other litters are lower in price then there prices will have to drop too.


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

Jem85 said:


> I do like them but prefer the reds or brindles


year it is good we all have different tastes.. i like the jet black and and brindle..


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

I love the pieds,followed by all the other colours


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## Dennyboy (Jan 3, 2008)

Wohoo just a quick nosey but from 497 litters reg there was 102 with blue pups in 

That isn't including the ones with blue parents and no blue pups

Amazingly  i found some chocolate ones  some champagne ones,tan ones,plain old brown ones and my favourite DARK CHOCOLATE mmmmm

Why on earth are the KC registering them  makes me so mad  why dont they send the litter reg back with some info about the breed  shouldnt be breeding if you dont know the standard....

Remember this is only 3 months worth  there may be a huge surge in the next edition.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

That figure is quite high,

Totally agree the KC should not be registering the pups or if they do they should put non standard colour on the registration.


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## bee112 (Apr 12, 2008)

champagne?!?! 

I didnt know there were so many different colours!


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

bee112 said:


> champagne?!?!
> 
> I didnt know there were so many different colours!


Same here hun


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

We do have alot of different colours within the breed,
Taken from the breed standard,
Colour
Red,fawn,white,black or blue or any one of these colours with white.Any shade of brindle or any shade of brindle with white.Black and tan or liver colour highly undesirable.

As you can see champagne and chocolate etc are not part of the standard.


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## Dennyboy (Jan 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> We do have alot of different colours within the breed,
> Taken from the breed standard,
> Colour
> Red,fawn,white,black or blue or any one of these colours with white.Any shade of brindle or any shade of brindle with white.Black and tan or liver colour highly undesirable.
> ...


So when breeders (lol) are registering these pups where the hell are they getting their info from 

They in turn are telling buyers "oh these ones are rare mate,wont see any like these about" and they in turn are the new fad.
Breeders (more lol) who breed these rare wonderful colours are then telling the buyers that they are so rare thats why they cost more  and that the breeders who bred to the standard are just jealous when they tell them they are a unknown colour.......

Pup buyers trust the owners of their pups parents, else they wouldn't buy from them, so to them what they are saying must be true.

Makes you wonder though,if blue is a dilute black gene what on earth has gone wrong to produce the newest fashions colours makes the mind boggle.

The KC needs to take some responsability with the colour registrations.More education is needed.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Dennyboy said:


> So when breeders (lol) are registering these pups where the hell are they getting their info from
> 
> They in turn are telling buyers "oh these ones are rare mate,wont see any like these about" and they in turn are the new fad.
> Breeders (more lol) who breed these rare wonderful colours are then telling the buyers that they are so rare thats why they cost more  and that the breeders who bred to the standard are just jealous when they tell them they are a unknown colour.......
> ...


I'm sure half of them just make it up as they go along 

Totally agree alot more education is needed,the KC needs to stop registering these fancy colours or put non standard colour on the registration.Doubt they will stop registering though as that would be a loss of income.


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## Dennyboy (Jan 3, 2008)

sallyanne said:


> I'm sure half of them just make it up as they go along
> 
> Totally agree alot more education is needed,the KC needs to stop registering these fancy colours or put non standard colour on the registration.Doubt they will stop registering though as that would be a loss of income.


Thats exactly what they said when i asked  if we dont register them they will just go elswhere and then there will be more unreg Staffords  ££££


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## clueless (May 26, 2008)

I cannot comment re colours as I have not got a Scooby re Staff colours. What I would like to say re the website is---- You should be really asking people's permission before stealing their Pics


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## kevin (Aug 1, 2008)

Jem85 said:


> Im sorry but i agree with kay on this if u want a decent staff u will pay between £500 -£600 no doubt about it. Im a dubious about u paying £460 for a bulldog
> 
> On a seperate not i did like the website had plenty of info but again not impressed that u are trying to make money from a diluted black colour, also your website states blue is a recognised colour  I may be wrong on this but i didn't think it was as it is just a diluted black?


A friend of mine breeds them and as I've really wanted one since I was a child and couldnt afford much I got one cheap, it's what friends do when you've known them all your life


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## cav (May 23, 2008)

I liked yor website enjoyed having a look at your pics..
Some good imformation.. and glad you do health tests..


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## growler1961 (Nov 2, 2007)

Thank you for your positive comments
we have recieved some very nice emails via our web site
people dont like to answer direct due to some very negitive forum members
if we had one wish it would be next time a new member asks for help/support
on how to care for a pregnant bitch, this could be given with out being put to shame 
in our opionion its to late after the bitch has been mated , even if bitch is
not up to breed standard and is untested it deserves the right to have the best care possible ( even if its not ideal )
why should a bitch suffer ? please make this forum a place that people can ask questions with out the fear of being put off asking for further help and advise


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

Can I ask Growler (I do not mean this in an offensive way)why you feel it is necessary to breed so many litters and why your dog is allowed to sire so many litters ?
Do you allow him to cover any bitch as long as they are tested ?
Can I also ask why you charge higher prices for Blue Pups ?

Can I also ask what you think of the current rescue situation regarding SBT's ?

Thanks...


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## growler1961 (Nov 2, 2007)

we had our first litter 18 years ago ,we have in total had 7 litters
my stud dog is popular ,we have no puppies available from his stud work at the moment because they have been reserved before birth
as you know there are many different builds and types in staffordshire bull terriers , we like them to the breed standard some people like them taller while others like them short 
we have had a request for Levi's sperm to be sent to australia today as they wish to improve a breeding line
when we are planing a litter ,we first advertise on our future litters page,if we have sufficent interest,the breeding goes ahead
we ask for the pups what we have paid for the parents & very often get offered more ,however we find the best possible homes for the pups and do not take the highest bid
if for any reason the new owner needs to rehome we ask them to bring the pup back to us, this has happened twice and both times we have found good homes 
thank you for your questions 
we dont get involved in point less slaning matches 
this is our only reply


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

growler1961 said:


> we had our first litter 18 years ago ,we have in total had 7 litters
> my stud dog is popular ,we have no puppies available from his stud work at the moment because they have been reserved before birth
> as you know there are many different builds and types in staffordshire bull terriers , we like them to the breed standard some people like them taller while others like them short
> we have had a request for Levi's sperm to be sent to australia today as they wish to improve a breeding line
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to answer


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## Dennyboy (Jan 3, 2008)

growler1961 said:


> Thank you for your positive comments
> we have recieved some very nice emails via our web site
> people dont like to answer direct due to some very negitive forum members
> if we had one wish it would be next time a new member asks for help/support
> ...


Hi

I am guessing at the thread from which your points are directed from.

The best possible care involves testing do you not agree?

Why should the pups be exposed to possible health problems and potential owners be faced with huge vet bills and the possibility of having a 6month old pup put to sleep because of a breeders ignorance?

I will always offer advice but cant stand the selfish attitude of people who choose to make some cash from breeding their pets with no thought to the welfare of pups or mother.There is NO reason not to test 

Breeding is not a reason to scrimp and cut corners and make as much as you can without putting everything into it,you should be striving to produce better breed specimins,not dragging the breed back into the dark ages and possibly the Dangerous Dogs Act.

The test are there to help eradicate the disease,so that breeders dont have to guess.

Why should it be ok for the odd one who feel that they dont need to test?

As i said before,if you are breeding,its up to you to know,or find out,about the health issues of your breed.
You should also know the standard for your breed and be sticking to it.

This is my opinion and one i will not compromise on.

Mel


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## Dennyboy (Jan 3, 2008)

Re-reading your quote again,it is not too late once the bitch has been bred,there is the injection which is available and also neutering.

And yes the bitch does deserve the best possible care,that includes testing for conditions which can be passed onto pups,which also deserve the best care.

What would it be like for a bitch to take her first L2HGA fit while whelping?

That to me is more suffering than i can imagine,why risk it?

Once people know about the tests there is NO excuse not to test.

I think anyone who is breeding without testing should be ashamed of themselves.

Again this is just MY opinion and is directed at NO-ONE in particular,but if the boot fits,you should be asking yourself what can you do to make it better,everyone makes mistakes,its how you go about learning from them and puting them right.

Mel


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