# Chicken & Rice



## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Poppet my 5 month old ragdoll has had very soft sloppy stools since we got him. He is now on a small amount of Grau and free feeding of RC33 Sensible, for sensitive digestions, but the problem persists. We've used Prokolin which hasn't helped. He is happy, active and gaining weight, 250gm this week and now tipping the scales at 3Kg. The vet can find nothing wrong.

Last night after having to wash his feet, his pants and the carpet yet again, I put him on a 50:50 mix of boiled chicken & rice. This morning his poop was less in volume, but even softer and quite yellow. I don't know what effect the chicken & rice should have on his poop or how long it should take to get to a more solid one. Can someone give me an idea of what to expect please? 

Today, but too late for his breakfast, I received a product from the USA called Diareze and shall see if that helps. If it doesn't I'm a bit lost after that other than trying a different vet.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

MaryA said:


> Poppet my 5 month old ragdoll has had very soft sloppy stools since we got him. He is now on a small amount of Grau and free feeding of RC33 Sensible, for sensitive digestions, but the problem persists. We've used Prokolin which hasn't helped. He is happy, active and gaining weight, 250gm this week and now tipping the scales at 3Kg. The vet can find nothing wrong.
> 
> Last night after having to wash his feet, his pants and the carpet yet again, I put him on a 50:50 mix of boiled chicken & rice. This morning his poop was less in volume, but even softer and quite yellow. I don't know what effect the chicken & rice should have on his poop or how long it should take to get to a more solid one. Can someone give me an idea of what to expect please?
> 
> Today, but too late for his breakfast, I received a product from the USA called Diareze and shall see if that helps. If it doesn't I'm a bit lost after that other than trying a different vet.


Forget about Diareze at the moment as this will potentially mask any problems.

Here is what I would do

1) cut out the rice and only feed freshly boiled chicken. No dry food, nothing else apart from maybe some pro-kolin but I would even be inclined to leave that out at the minute.

2) IF that doesn't sort the problem, then either try a white fish or some red meat, e.g. lamb or beef.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

OK, thanks Hobbs. :thumbsup:


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

MaryA said:


> Poppet my 5 month old ragdoll has had very soft sloppy stools since we got him. He is now on a small amount of Grau and free feeding of RC33 Sensible, for sensitive digestions, but the problem persists. We've used Prokolin which hasn't helped. He is happy, active and gaining weight, 250gm this week and now tipping the scales at 3Kg. *The vet can find nothing wrong.*


Has the vet had Poppet's stools tested at the lab to rule out bacteria, parasites etc?

If this has been done and all is clear, then might be intolerance to certain food type which will be a process of elimination, so stopping the dry as Hobbs suggested is a great suggestion as I understand RC put 'all sorts' in their food, not a single source meat.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Id do what my vet suggusts, it works wonders

cut out the biccis & rice

for 5days:

day 1: chicken

day 2: chicken

day 3: chicken

day 4: 75% chicken & 25% his normal food

day 5: 50% chicken 50% his normal food

day 6: 75% chicken 25% normal food

day 7: 100% normal food.


really works wonders for upset tums, I found that pro kolin doesnt help, infact the vet actually said that it wasnt any good either  Im sure it helps some cats though.

Have you tried porta 21 sensitive? it really helped my raggie girl with her poops


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

dougal22 said:


> Has the vet had Poppet's stools tested at the lab to rule out bacteria, parasites etc?


When Poppet had stolen and guzzled all of his sister's food, he had diarrhoea and vomited once, so I took some poop with me to the vet. He just looked at it and gave me some paste in a green tube, (forgotten the name now, sorry). He found no temperature, no sign of discomfort and wasn't concerned. I told him the stools were always loose, but he didn't even suggest any tests. He said soft stools were ok, it was only a problem if it became diarrhoea again, which it hasn't.



Taylorbaby said:


> Have you tried porta 21 sensitive? it really helped my raggie girl with her poops


No I haven't. The breeder suggested going back onto RC33 and 36, which is what she fed him. It didn't really help. I've cut out the rice as suggested and I'll keep him on chicken for the next few days.

My phone line is very crackly and intermittent, so if I suddenly don't respond to any posts, please understand why. I'll be waiting on BT.


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

It might be best to get a stool sample sent off to check for parasites. There was a raggie on here recently with ongoing soft stools and it turned out to be Giardia, which I think can be treated quite easily? At least then you'd be sure.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Chez87 said:


> It might be best to get a stool sample sent off to check for parasites. There was a raggie on here recently with ongoing soft stools and it turned out to be *Giardia*, which I think can be treated quite easily? At least then you'd be sure.


This is what I'm thinking  It will take a few days worth of samples to find out.

Good luck, I hope you can get to the bottom of things xxx


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Please don't think I'm dismissing any advice, I'm not. I'm just want to do what's best for my raggie.

Having read all I can about Gardia, with respect to all posters, the symptoms do not really seem to fit. The diarrhoea was a one off episode, caused by gluttony and he isn't listless or losing weight. He doesn't have chronic diarrhoea, his stools are just very soft and sloppy. On a scale of 0-10, where 0 is watery fluid and 10 is hard & solid, his poo is always somewhere between 3 and 4.:arf: My other cat is a steady 9-10.

Anyway, I shall do TBs three days of chicken and if no better I shall ask the vet do some tests and if he won't I'll find a vet who will!!

Hobbs, (hiding behind the sofa here) I'm also confused about not using the Diar-eze though as the feedback is excellent. Even though he doesn't have diarrhoea, I would have thought anything that could help firm things up would be worth trying. Yes? No?

Diar-eze Testimonials from Cat Owners


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

I was only using Giardia as an example, I'm sure there are numerous other bacteria and parasites that could cause tummy problems. Tis up to you of course, just saying what I would do as it's been going on for a while now.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

MaryA said:


> Please don't think I'm dismissing any advice, I'm not. I'm just want to do what's best for my raggie.
> 
> Having read all I can about Gardia, with respect to all posters, the symptoms do not really seem to fit. The diarrhoea was a one off episode, caused by gluttony and he isn't listless or losing weight. He doesn't have chronic diarrhoea, his stools are just very soft and sloppy. On a scale of 0-10, where 0 is watery fluid and 10 is hard & solid, his poo is always somewhere between 3 and 4.:arf: My other cat is a steady 9-10.
> 
> ...


Come out from behind your sofa woman!

The only reason why I suggest that for the moment you don't add anything or feed anything else but chicken for a couple or so days is to see whether it is the rice that perhaps brought about the slightly sloppier poop you saw or whether it is indeed the chicken. You would be surprised by how many peeps I have seen that have a cat with a chicken sensitivity.

IF it is a food sensitivity and it is the rice, then you should see a change in poop consistency in a very short time (though with some allergic food reactions in can take up to 6 weeks for symptoms to disappear). WITHOUT the need for any other product.

Best case scenario, it suddenly firms up in the next few days just on chicken in which case you need to start cutting out rice etc from the diet. However, it could just be getting worse, in which case it could indicate that it is the chicken, which in turn means that you need to find another protein source (e.g. beef, lamb, venison etc) and your are heading towards a proper elimination diet.

However, I do agree with the others. IF it continues being sloppy and doesn't show any signs of firming up at all, then I would send it off for testing. There is no point faffing around with diet or an elimination diet any further if there is 
a chance of a parasitic or bacterial reason for it all. 
B


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

you can also use turkey for the chicken diet!


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

More thanks to all, especially Hobbs for explaining the elimination diet and logic behind her thinking. I hope it isn't the chicken, as it's all he's getting at the moment. If it is, I may need to hose down the carpets by the morning.  :lol:


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> Id do what my vet suggusts, it works wonders
> 
> cut out the biccis & rice
> 
> ...


Can you spell this out for the thicko here 

I have a puss with soft stools and he def seems to have a sensitive stomach. More so than the other one. It's not diarrhoea (I can tell the difference from when he got a bit of banana out of the bin before I could stop him and had 2 days of explosive poo ) it's just very soft in comparison to his bro and he's still has a healthy appetite is very playful, drinks really well but I'd like him to have decent poo for the smell and to make him into a healthy boy

How do you prepare the chicken, what do you buy and what quantities? I'm a vegetarian and the idea of handling/ cooking chicken makes me feel sick (normal cat food is bad enough!!) but I'll do it for my boys but don't want to poison them.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

MaryA said:


> More thanks to all, especially Hobbs for explaining the elimination diet and logic behind her thinking. I hope it isn't the chicken, as it's all he's getting at the moment. If it is, I may need to hose down the carpets by the morning.  :lol:


you can also use turkey, both lean meats, kinda the same thing anyway haha


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> Can you spell this out for the thicko here
> 
> I have a puss with soft stools and he def seems to have a sensitive stomach. More so than the other one. It's not diarrhoea (I can tell the difference from when he got a bit of banana out of the bin before I could stop him and had 2 days of explosive poo ) it's just very soft in comparison to his bro and he's still has a healthy appetite is very playful, drinks really well but I'd like him to have decent poo for the smell and to make him into a healthy boy
> 
> How do you prepare the chicken, what do you buy and what quantities? I'm a vegetarian and the idea of handling/ cooking chicken makes me feel sick (normal cat food is bad enough!!) but I'll do it for my boys but don't want to poison them.


lol well what i did was buy chicken breasts and I oven cook with some water in them but you can also boil them but i have no idea how to do that!!

let it cool down and i strip/cut it into tiny pieces, currently got 3 thawing out, cos mine are just spoilt lol 

the quaitiy depends on the cat size/weight etc, I alaways put a little in the bowl, bit of water on in, I also feed cat milk, found sainburyss own good as it has good gut fliora and the vet said it would be good for hydration and the cats loved it. I spread the food out throughout the day, i they gulp it all down in one go I always give a little more lol


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> lol well what i did was buy chicken breasts and I oven cook with some water in them but you can also boil them but i have no idea how to do that!!
> 
> let it cool down and i strip/cut it into tiny pieces, currently got 3 thawing out, cos mine are just spoilt lol
> 
> the quaitiy depends on the cat size/weight etc, I alaways put a little in the bowl, bit of water on in, I also feed cat milk, found sainburyss own good as it has good gut fliora and the vet said it would be good for hydration and the cats loved it. I spread the food out throughout the day, i they gulp it all down in one go I always give a little more lol


so do you cook in a roasting pan but with water so kind of like poaching but in the oven?

Sorry these prob sound like the most stupid questions ever but apart from cooking friends the odd pasta dish with salmon or bacon in I haven't cooked meat in nearly 10 years and obviously I can't try it to check that it's ok.

would that take about 35/40 mins ish or cook a lot sooner than that? Also how long could I keep them in the fridge when they were cooked?

They love water and drink quite a lot which is very refreshing as my old cat didn't drink at all which used to worry me to death so I don't think I'd give them the kitten milk. I tried the pets at home one on them for a treat once and that did not go down well with his tummy so won't be using that brand again.


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## runijames (Feb 3, 2011)

Chicken with the rice is very good food, but you must have to give without oil. Because too much oil it bad for animals same as human. Give boiled chicken or rice, without any ingredients.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I must say, I always have a bit of a giggle when I read these posts about poop: the consistency, vicosity, frequency, colour, etc. It is amazing how interested one becomes in poop once you get a cat! :lol::lol::lol:


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

He had a poop on day 3. It's day 5 now, so another poop is expected. Nothing yet though. His appetite has increased a lot and his weight has gone up nicely, so it's all inside there somewhere. The Butchers Classic seems to be going down ok, but with the delay between food in and poop out, :arf: it's difficult to know. As an aside, I thought Bozita was high in jelly, Classic has even more.


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## Milly Cat (Nov 20, 2010)

Our cat Milly has had trouble with soft poops today so I just boiled up a chicken breast for her and shredded it. I gave her a little and to say she loved it is an understatement :arf: I thought myself it looked pretty good! But how much do I feed her? One breast over the course of a day for the three days? She's a 10 month old kitten and quite petite.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Milly Cat said:


> Our cat Milly has had trouble with soft poops today so I just boiled up a chicken breast for her and shredded it. I gave her a little and to say she loved it is an understatement :arf: I thought myself it looked pretty good! But how much do I feed her? One breast over the course of a day for the three days? She's a 10 month old kitten and quite petite.


How big are the chicken breasts you are feeding?

My boys are eating a lot more than that but I think they will be big when they are older.

I certainly couldn't afford to feed chicken all the time would cost me a fortune!!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> How big are the chicken breasts you are feeding?
> 
> My boys are eating a lot more than that but I think they will be big when they are older.
> 
> I certainly couldn't afford to feed chicken all the time would cost me a fortune!!


sorry I just see your other post, I just cook them till they are done lol, im not a meat cooker/eater myself so just follow the instructions lol!

you couldnt just feed chicken either, have to add alot more to it lol, but you can get a pack of 6 chicken breasts for like £5 in tesco/sainsburys, mine can eat a hole one...and still eat their regualr food (well, a bit less!)

have you started doing the chicken/turkey yet?


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> sorry I just see your other post, I just cook them till they are done lol, im not a meat cooker/eater myself so just follow the instructions lol!
> 
> you couldnt just feed chicken either, have to add alot more to it lol, but you can get a pack of 6 chicken breasts for like £5 in tesco/sainsburys, mine can eat a hole one...and still eat their regualr food (well, a bit less!)
> 
> have you started doing the chicken/turkey yet?


Yep chicken night 3. I was only going to feed it to the one with the sloppy poo but kitten 1 has gone that mad for it that they are both getting chicken. I ended up just buying some chicken breasts and cooking them in the oven with water over the top.

Kitten 2 of the dodgy poop  has done one poo so far which was a bit sloppy but that was the day that he managed to get some of his brothers dried food before I could stop him (his brother is still having some normal food too as he is fine and he is a piggy). So i think when I get to tomorrow night and starting back on some of the regular food I'll just try some of his wet and see if that gets firm poos. Am wondering if it's down to the dried food and he has a sensitivity to something. I guess I won't know if I just put him back on both so maybe I'll add in the wet first and if poo is all good then see if the dried makes it soft?

He seems a lot happier in himself although he's taken to hiding under the table because I've also been giving him prokolin and he doesn't like it and has got wise to me 

He has also been eating a lot more of the chicken than he does his normal dinner. He eats the RDA of his dinner normally but his bro eats quite a bit more than that. He doesn't normally come round for extra food but he has with the chicken so I think it's a win!!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> Yep chicken night 3. I was only going to feed it to the one with the sloppy poo but kitten 1 has gone that mad for it that they are both getting chicken. I ended up just buying some chicken breasts and cooking them in the oven with water over the top.
> 
> Kitten 2 of the dodgy poop  has done one poo so far which was a bit sloppy but that was the day that he managed to get some of his brothers dried food before I could stop him (his brother is still having some normal food too as he is fine and he is a piggy). So i think when I get to tomorrow night and starting back on some of the regular food I'll just try some of his wet and see if that gets firm poos. Am wondering if it's down to the dried food and he has a sensitivity to something. I guess I won't know if I just put him back on both so maybe I'll add in the wet first and if poo is all good then see if the dried makes it soft?
> 
> ...


depends what dry food is it?

you have to be very strict with the diet, id put both on it, or feed the other boy supervised, as actually do they use the same litter tray? do you use a cleaner? as the easiet way to spread dodgy tums/illness is the litter tray, i recomend this cleaner:

Johnson's Clean and Safe Disinfectant for Cats Trigger Spray 500ml | Pets at Home

clean tray spray over done 

dont worry about any rda, go by your cat if his hungry feed him, if he isnt dont etc as long as his healthy, not all cats are the same some eat more or less than whats on a box, whats a 'average' cat anyway!

ive never found pro kolin anygood, esp for the money you pay for it, even the vet told me it was rubbish, im sure some people find it helps though.

as soon as he eats the biscuits his back to the start, the diet is to help the digestion and give the kits tum a break so id go back a day.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

My raggie has done well on the diet, but I had to cut out rice. So far so good. Poops are solid at day five. Weight is increasing. Windy though. Just need to see the poop from the last few meals now, and maybe, just maybe, we are out of the woods.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> depends what dry food is it?
> 
> you have to be very strict with the diet, id put both on it, or feed the other boy supervised, as actually do they use the same litter tray? do you use a cleaner? as the easiet way to spread dodgy tums/illness is the litter tray, i recomend this cleaner:
> 
> ...


I've been cleaning with a regular disinfectant and then rinsing really really well, will try buying that one though.

I was supervising and he wasn't even in the room when number 1 was having a few biscuits but I'm clearly a crap supervisor because he snuck past me and then I looked around and realised wrong ginger kitten doh!! I swear they gang up on me! The dried has been removed from reach now I've learnt from my mistakes!!

The dried is Hills Science plan kitten then they were both on Felix wet which they came to me on.

Ok will go back a day then. He'll prob love that as he loves the chicken!!

Today he seems to have pretty much stopped pooing he's just done a teeny bit which looks ok but he's still doing the most god awful smelly farts in the world bless him.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

MaryA said:


> My raggie has done well on the diet, but I had to cut out rice. So far so good. Poops are solid at day five. Weight is increasing. Windy though. Just need to see the poop from the last few meals now, and maybe, just maybe, we are out of the woods.


yah!! well done! 



Cloudygirl said:


> I've been cleaning with a regular disinfectant and then rinsing really really well, will try buying that one though.
> 
> I was supervising and he wasn't even in the room when number 1 was having a few biscuits but I'm clearly a crap supervisor because he snuck past me and then I looked around and realised wrong ginger kitten doh!! I swear they gang up on me! The dried has been removed from reach now I've learnt from my mistakes!!
> 
> ...


this is better as you spray it on the actual litter, so if bits of poop get left behind that you dont clean out (cant see etc) get stuck on the others foot he licks it...its easy done, i never knew how important it was until I had more cats either, its good esp if one is ill I know I am doing all the trays and we can then seperate lol!

lol dont worry Ive been there, my boy cant eat biscuits, well Ill be blowed if in front of me and the partner he was eating them :eek6:  we thought it was my other boy, so he had to have double his medicine, lucky we noticed after about 5bics *sigh*

personally im not a big fan of science hills as I think its plop, it also made mine have tum probs aswell, the vets kept trying to shove it on me so @I bought a bag thinking 'well if the vets....' 

didnt even finish the bag and chucked it! Felix does = stinky poops anyway, mine have classic/felix/whiskas/alplaws/chicken/turkey/some other stuff off of zooplus thats high in meat but cant rem the name now!

The biccis Ive gone from which _Really_ has helped with the poos is sanabelle kitten and sanabelle poultry / natures taste of the wild / porta 21 and porta 21 sensible.

And it works out cheaper buying in bulk, it seems more at first as alayout, but as you are buying a bigger amount it works out to something like a £1 a week (or something!) for each cat


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

My Hills was from the vet too. Will def look into different biccies then if that ends up being the problem. 

Looks like I could feed kitten 1 anything but kitten 2 definitely has a more delicate tummy. 


I did try a couple of weeks ago gradually moving them onto better quality wet but kitten 1 was fine but it seemed to upset kitten 2 straight away even with just a tiny bit so I gave that up for now. 

It'll be felix til he's settled I think. He def seems happier on the chicken currently doing silly roll overs on my bedroom floor whilst playing with a knitted butterfly that he's pulled off my slipper


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> My Hills was from the vet too. Will def look into different biccies then if that ends up being the problem.
> 
> Looks like I could feed kitten 1 anything but kitten 2 definitely has a more delicate tummy.
> 
> ...


what breed are they? if they are fine on felix then maybe just change the biccis? have a look at zooplus.co.uk thats where most of us buy from free p&p and as its 'bulk' it does last alot longer.

vets only sell that as they are commisioned, it annoys me as its basically the same ingredients as other brands cheaper!

i found that it was the bics with my lot so was very happy with the new purchase lol!!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

They are that very special breed otherwise known as ginger mogs  

One would like to think he is a bengal because he likes climbing as high as possible and is a real little sod but I think that he's just naughty 


Felix annoys me because I think it's actually pretty expensive for what you get and I've seen hilife for cheaper which is far higher meat content but got to give them what they can eat at the end of the day.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> They are that very special breed otherwise known as ginger mogs
> 
> One would like to think he is a bengal because he likes climbing as high as possible and is a real little sod but I think that he's just naughty
> 
> Felix annoys me because I think it's actually pretty expensive for what you get and I've seen hilife for cheaper which is far higher meat content but got to give them what they can eat at the end of the day.


pouches are very expensive, I always say this lol, but 4 pouches = 1 can, a box of 12 pouches between 2 cats is around 3 days of food!! yet a pack of 6 cans would last 6days, so why not swap to cans? plus itll be 1/2 the amount of the price!

i love gingers, lol bengals do and dont like to get up high, it isnt a bengal thing, my raggies prefer to get higher than them!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

it's def the plan to get them from pouches to tins but I only seem to be able to get tin multi packs locally that are the fish ones and they aren't keen at all. 

well just finished day 3 part 2 (as I did day 3 again due to the dried food pinching incident). Kittens = happier although still won't let me stroke him as he's still stropping with me 

Kitten 1 who already had good poo has had one poo so far (is it sad that I can tell who has done what poo  ) all solid and fine as expected. Kitten 2 has done 2 poos - very slightly sloppy but loads better than previous but man does his smell of chicken. Kitten 1s poo doesn't smell at all?? Does that mean something.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> 1) cut out the rice and only feed freshly boiled chicken. No dry food, nothing else apart from maybe some pro-kolin but I would even be inclined to leave that out at the minute.
> 
> 2) IF that doesn't sort the problem, then either try a white fish or some red meat, e.g. lamb or beef.


I followed Hobbs advice, using TB's timetable and all seems well with my raggie. He has a rice sensitivity and almost everything I had been giving him contained it.  He is now on Butchers classic and the poop is solid for the first time! In fact every poop since we started this has been solid. So, thank you sooooo much for your help. You really have no idea how much I genuinely mean that. :thumbup:

I have two questions. It's a bit late on the first one to be honest. When we talk about gradually re-introducing food, should it be varieties of the same brand, eg Classic beef, Classic haddock, etc, or stick to one flavour only, eg Classic beef only for a week or so? I did a mix of varieties of the same brand, fortunately it worked out ok, but I have been wondering.

Second question, I would like to reintroduce some dry food, no rice obviously. I thought some Applaws to begin with as Orijen can be a bit rich for some cats. So, can I start reintroducing dry, and if so when & how much?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

MaryA said:


> I followed Hobbs advice, using TB's timetable and all seems well with my raggie. He has a rice sensitivity and almost everything I had been giving him contained it.  He is now on Butchers classic and the poop is solid for the first time! In fact every poop since we started this has been solid. So, thank you sooooo much for your help. You really have no idea how much I genuinely mean that. :thumbup:
> 
> I have two questions. It's a bit late on the first one to be honest. When we talk about gradually re-introducing food, should it be varieties of the same brand, eg Classic beef, Classic haddock, etc, or stick to one flavour only, eg Classic beef only for a week or so? I did a mix of varieties of the same brand, fortunately it worked out ok, but I have been wondering.
> 
> Second question, I would like to reintroduce some dry food, no rice obviously. I thought some Applaws to begin with as Orijen can be a bit rich for some cats. So, can I start reintroducing dry, and if so when & how much?


Hurrah! That is great news!

No reason to just stick to one flavour if you think you have eliminated the sensitivity. In all fairness, there is very little actual difference between the different Classic flavours...

Re Applaws, well, it is equivalent to Orijen in terms of protein, fat etc. So, if you think Orijen is too rich, then Applaws will be too. But let me tell you this.

It is completely bonkers to say that a food is "too rich" for cats. Yes, certain foods may disagree with any one cat because of one thing or another (more often than not it isn't obvious what is causing it) but cats are nutritionally designed to ingest a high protein, medium fat diet.

So, no food, isn't too rich _per se_. Orijen may disagree with some cats (others thrive on it), but they are fine on Applaws.

In terms of introduction, do you want to have dry food as a significant part of your cats' diet or would you be happy to just feed a little as a treat, say in a treat ball?


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> It is completely bonkers to say that a food is "too rich" for cats.


I've been completely bonkers for years, Hobbs.  I sooooo wouldn't want to be normal. :thumbup:

A quick google of Orijen too rich will bring up several hits, not quite so many with Applaws. So there's a lot of us out there.

I want to re-introduce some free feeding dry, as I have to leave them overnight occasionally and wet food alone would be a problem. If I use a treat ball then give them a sudden overload of dry, wouldn't that cause problems too?


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

MaryA said:


> I want to re-introduce some free feeding dry, as I have to leave them overnight occasionally and wet food alone would be a problem. If I use a treat ball then give them a sudden overload of dry, wouldn't that cause problems too?


me too I'd never feel comfortable leaving wet down for a period of time.

Also mine always want feeding and I'm at work all day and I can tell that even with a timed feeder they'd still want more. Dried is more convenient for that. Like today this morning at 7 they had a load of cooked chicken, then they've just miaowed for food again and had more and will prob want feeding again at 1ish. Just can't do that when I'm at work unless I buy about 5 timed feeders.

Obviously I'd never want to feed all dried and probably am thinking 70/80% wet but dried does have big benefits for convenience.


----------



## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Cloudygirl said:


> Obviously I'd never want to feed all dried and probably am thinking 70/80% wet but dried does have big benefits for convenience.


Yes, I agree.  I'd also love to give them raw chicken wings as a treat too. I'm just a bit scared of upsetting the raggie again and still find it difficult to get my head around giving them raw bones.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> it's def the plan to get them from pouches to tins but I only seem to be able to get tin multi packs locally that are the fish ones and they aren't keen at all.
> 
> well just finished day 3 part 2 (as I did day 3 again due to the dried food pinching incident). Kittens = happier although still won't let me stroke him as he's still stropping with me
> 
> Kitten 1 who already had good poo has had one poo so far (is it sad that I can tell who has done what poo  ) all solid and fine as expected. Kitten 2 has done 2 poos - very slightly sloppy but loads better than previous but man does his smell of chicken. Kitten 1s poo doesn't smell at all?? Does that mean something.


oo thats good, remember it does take time for the tummy to settle down, and bland plain chicken/turkey does just that!

lol that means its good! wish my lot didnt stinky!!



MaryA said:


> I followed Hobbs advice, using TB's timetable and all seems well with my raggie. He has a rice sensitivity and almost everything I had been giving him contained it.  He is now on Butchers classic and the poop is solid for the first time! In fact every poop since we started this has been solid. So, thank you sooooo much for your help. You really have no idea how much I genuinely mean that. :thumbup:
> 
> I have two questions. It's a bit late on the first one to be honest. When we talk about gradually re-introducing food, should it be varieties of the same brand, eg Classic beef, Classic haddock, etc, or stick to one flavour only, eg Classic beef only for a week or so? I did a mix of varieties of the same brand, fortunately it worked out ok, but I have been wondering.
> 
> Second question, I would like to reintroduce some dry food, no rice obviously. I thought some Applaws to begin with as Orijen can be a bit rich for some cats. So, can I start reintroducing dry, and if so when & how much?


i wouldnt feed red meat just stick to the plain white lean meats  i guess fish can work to, but its worked for me the chick/turk so i dont want to change lol!

i find classic really good no nasty bits in it i dont think there will be any difference in the flavours, the meaty pack has 3 i think?

maybe give it a few weeks then introduce little bits of dry and see how you go? i found porta 21 sensitive excellent and sanbelle for my raggies tummys


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

MaryA said:


> I've been completely bonkers for years, Hobbs.  I sooooo wouldn't want to be normal. :thumbup:
> 
> A quick google of Orijen too rich will bring up several hits, not quite so many with Applaws. So there's a lot of us out there.
> 
> I want to re-introduce some free feeding dry, as I have to leave them overnight occasionally and wet food alone would be a problem. If I use a treat ball then give them a sudden overload of dry, wouldn't that cause problems too?


Just because many peeps are out there that share that belief doesn't make it a right thing to believe. 

Yes, there will always be foods that don't agree with one cat but that another one will thrive on, and yes there are some cats with underlying issues where certain foods just set them off.

If you cannot find anything for Applaws then I ask you to just google applaws issues/problems and you will find a lot of scaremongering information, which basically implies that your cat will die when you feed applaws or will suffer from horrendous stomach problems.

All complete ******** as per my reasoning earlier and above. Have you considered Acana as another dry food? Might be worth a look.

Anyhow, keep them on the classic for another short while and then slowly introduce some dry food in small quantities. Over time increase the amount of dry food you are feeding until you get to your desired amount.


----------



## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> If you cannot find anything for Applaws then I ask you to just google applaws issues/problems and you will find a lot of scaremongering information, which basically implies that your cat will die when you feed applaws or will suffer from horrendous stomach problems.


At your suggestion, I did Google and I see a UK breeder has undertaken legal proceedings against Applaws for its toxic content. There is a lot of information about mycotoxins on the website. It made for very upsetting and shocking reading. I shall be interested in the outcome of the case from both a legal and scientific point of view.



hobbs2004 said:


> Have you considered Acana as another dry food? Might be worth a look.
> 
> Anyhow, keep them on the classic for another short while and then slowly introduce some dry food in small quantities. Over time increase the amount of dry food you are feeding until you get to your desired amount.


With a lower protein content and no cereal Acana may well be worth a go. Thank you for the suggestion.  As I still have bags half full here, I shall try a little Orijen first. It's going to be a question of trial and error.



Taylorbaby said:


> maybe give it a few weeks then introduce little bits of dry and see how you go? i found porta 21 sensitive excellent and sanbelle for my raggies tummys


Sanbelle isn't grain free unfortunately. Porta 21 Feline Finest Sensible is though, so I may order some of this with the Acana.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Started to introduce back just the felix yesterday as well as the chicken and I've gone from quite solid poop to runny poop already. Does that mean that he has a sensitivity to something in the felix or is it just that his stomach is so sensitive that giving him a tiny bit of something else has upset him. 

Don't know now whether to put him back on the felix or try something else  

They only had half a pouch this morning but it seems to have gone through him. His brother is unaffected.

I gave them a bit of felix yesterday too but I'm not sure that he pooed yesterday.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> Started to introduce back just the felix as well as the chicken and I've gone from quite solid poop to runny poop already. Does that mean that he has a sensitivity to something in the felix or is it just that his stomach is so sensitive that giving him a tiny bit of something else has upset him.
> 
> Don't know now whether to put him back on the felix or try something else
> 
> They only had half a pouch but it seems to have gone through him. His brother is unaffected.


did you do the 25%/75% ??

Id try him on something else, do you feed dry?

the 75% is (just a example!) a chicken breast and a tablespoon of felix, it has to be done very slowly, he may have a extra sensitive tum and might do well on a extra day or 2 of chicken, how were hsi poos before the felix?


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> did you do the 25%/75% ??
> 
> Id try him on something else, do you feed dry?


Yup they've been still eating the chicken too.

I do have some dry I have the Hills and some pets at home kitten that is unopened that someone gave me when I got them but I haven't used any yet.

Not very good about grading poo lol. They weren't as hard as his brothers on the chicken. His brother has rock solid poo lol but they were pretty much solid. Far better than before when they were on their regular food.

He's only had half a pouch all day today spaced out but it doesn't seem to have gone down well on the tum. Maybe I need to introduce it back even more slowly?? He had a little bit yesterday too and so did his brother but he had lots less of it than his brother and that seemed to be ok. So maybe I need to just give him a tiny bit each time. I'm not sure whether to cut my losses with the felix.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> Yup they've been still eating the chicken too.
> 
> I do have some dry I have the Hills and some pets at home kitten that is unopened that someone gave me when I got them but I haven't used any yet.
> 
> ...


maybe cur out the felix, is it kitten? what about trying classic?


----------



## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Well I also have in the cupboard butchers classic the meat pack which neither of them have tried yet (people keep giving me cat food lol), hilife pouches but I tried a tiny bit of that with them as a treat ages ago and they both turned their noses up big time so I think I'm donating that lol and the felix which are felix kitten pouches.

Edit just checked the cupboard: and a tin of regular felix but it's the salmon one and they have a habit of turning their noses up at fish.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

How long can I feed chicken for alongside regular cat food without him getting some kind of deficiency or is there some kind of supplement I can add to make it a better food. Just worried that if I introduce regular cat food really gradually that he'll miss out on some vital nutrients.


His brother has been playing up a bit trying to stop him getting food etc so I wonder if he is also a bit stressed.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

maybe try the classic, i wouldnt worry its only a week and he has snuck biccis and eaten wet meat lol!!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

this is true. He is a naughty boy. 

He certainly seems happy enough. Ok I'll try the butchers. Should I just give him a normal chicken portion and then just a spoonful of it for the first feeding to see how he takes to it?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

MaryA said:


> At your suggestion, I did Google and I see a UK breeder has undertaken legal proceedings against Applaws for its toxic content. There is a lot of information about mycotoxins on the website. It made for very upsetting and shocking reading. I shall be interested in the outcome of the case from both a legal and scientific point of view.


 Oh no! I didn't mean that you should take that seriously. All I meant to show you was that if you look for negative things on something you will find it! :arf:

Seriously, that that breeder still has the info on the website is shocking. IF something had been wrong with the food, and considering how popular Applaws dry is across the country, we would have seen many more problems (other than the wee tummy upsets that people are reporting either because the food doesn't agree with the cat or because the food was introduced too quickly).

The food was investigated, trading standards did their bit and it is still on the shelves. IF there was anything vaguely dodgy with it, it would have been pulled. End of.

Complete scaremongering.



Cloudygirl said:


> How long can I feed chicken for alongside regular cat food without him getting some kind of deficiency or is there some kind of supplement I can add to make it a better food. Just worried that if I introduce regular cat food really gradually that he'll miss out on some vital nutrients.
> 
> His brother has been playing up a bit trying to stop him getting food etc so I wonder if he is also a bit stressed.


I personally wouldn't worry about lack of nutrition just yet. How long have you been feeding the just chicken for? Just a few days right?

But it is so hard to say what it is that sets them off. Could be the jelly, could be a particular animal meat, could be a particular preservative or additive.

The only advice I could give is to try to introduce slowly another food that is perhaps slightly more transparent in its ingredients


----------



## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

split them up to feed them tonight as feel bad as kitten 1 was enjoying his normal wet food. So he's got the proper portion and number 2 has had more chicken. Will see if that firms him back up again. Will try him with a bit of butchers choice tomorrow. 

That is in jelly too so if that goes through him too is it worth trying something like Animonda Carny Kitten that looks a bit more meaty and more natural?


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Complete scaremongering.


I acknowledge your opinion.  We are not privvy to the full facts. I shall await the results of the legal process before making any judgement. There are several threads on this forum including 5 posts from the breeder himself, (Forum name Twyman) while he was struggling unsuccessfully to keep his cat alive. There are also responses from Applaws, via an OP. For those interested a search for applaws mycotoxins will be of value.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Cloudygirl said:


> Will try him with a bit of butchers choice tomorrow.


I am having some success with Classic. Some contain a lot of jelly though. It really helped me to find the probable cause of the soft poop. It was only when I put him on chicken plus rice and it made his poop even softer that Hobbs suggested removing the rice. Her advice was spot on and things firmed up. Once we realised it was the rice, we could make choices accordingly. So my Raggie is now on grain free only. I now also use 1/4 teaspoon of Diar-eze on each meal if there is a lot of jelly in the can, as I notice too much jelly tends to soften poop slightly too.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

MaryA said:


> I am having some success with Classic. Some contain a lot of jelly though. It really helped me to find the probable cause of the soft poop. It was only when I put him on chicken plus rice and it made his poop even softer that Hobbs suggested removing the rice. Her advice was spot on and things firmed up. Once we realised it was the rice, we could make choices accordingly. So my Raggie is now on grain free only. I now also use 1/4 teaspoon of Diar-eze on each meal if there is a lot of jelly in the can, as I notice too much jelly tends to soften poop slightly too.


I never advice giving rice thats why its a plain diet, I wonder who came up with giving rice?? seems very odd really!


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Sorry, rant over


It might be a rant but it is a good rant. Go for it Hobbs.  Food issues are a real minefield. It certainly has been for me. And all your food rants have gone through my head as worries and still are to be honest. Having had my first kitten which turned it's nose up at almost everything we bought, until we found she loved fish; then the 2nd that had the soft poops which he covered himself and my cream carpet with for ages, I've been at my wits end, not knowing what to do for the best. I am learning though. 

As to the Applaws issue, yes I am cynical, especially where big companies publicity is concerned and the steps they will take to cover their vested interests. Years ago we were in a similar David & Goliath situation and were on the receiving end of it. It isn't nice, not nice at all. Anyway, I have just emailed the breeder to see what if anything is happening. I note there is an open invitation on their website to have copies of their independent test results too. If the breeder replies, I shall ask for them.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> I never advice giving rice thats why its a plain diet, I wonder who came up with giving rice?? seems very odd really!


It was Tje. She has been a huge support to me behind the scenes on this and other issues.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

MaryA said:


> It might be a rant but it is a good rant. Go for it Hobbs.  Food issues are a real minefield. It certainly has been for me. And all your food rants have gone through my head as worries and still are to be honest. Having had my first kitten which turned it's nose up at almost everything we bought, until we found she loved fish; then the 2nd that had the soft poops which he covered himself and my cream carpet with for ages, I've been at my wits end, not knowing what to do for the best. I am learning though.
> 
> As to the Applaws issue, yes I am cynical, especially where big companies publicity is concerned and the steps they will take to cover their vested interests. Years ago we were in a similar David & Goliath situation and were on the receiving end of it. It isn't nice, not nice at all. Anyway, I have just emailed the breeder to see what if anything is happening. I note there is an open invitation on their website to have copies of their independent test results too. If the breeder replies, I shall ask for them.


And that is all we can ever do - learn! And learn some more!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> I never advice giving rice thats why its a plain diet, I wonder who came up with giving rice?? seems very odd really!


Nothing odd about it. The starch in cooked rice helps to bind and gung up. However, that only works if the kitten/cat isn't allergic to rice!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

MaryA said:


> It was Tje. She has been a huge support to me behind the scenes on this and other issues.


lol i dont think she 'invented' it thats what I mean! 



hobbs2004 said:


> Nothing odd about it. The starch in cooked rice helps to bind and gung up. However, that only works if the kitten/cat isn't allergic to rice!


lol still think its weird!


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Did you see that I edited my post?


No I didn't see you had edited it, Hobbs. I was responding to other posts when you did so. You edited it A LOT! I also note you want the matter closed. I shall not defer to you on that quite yet. If what Applaws has told you is completely true, and you know I am cynical, it's a pity and rather surprising that this information has not been made more widely available. They have a reputation to uphold after all.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

MaryA said:


> No I didn't see you had edited it, Hobbs. I was responding to other posts when you did so. You edited it A LOT! I also note you want the matter closed. I shall not defer to you on that quite yet. If what Applaws has told you is completely true, and you know I am cynical, it's a pity and rather surprising that this information has not been made more widely available. They have a reputation to uphold after all.


I am saying that for me the matter is closed. It actually was closed a while ago for me when not more people came forward.

Have you phoned Applaws? Have you phoned Trading Standards?

Heck, I am more cynical about the pet food industry than most other people I know but I am also a realist and cynical of the people who rant against the pet food industry.

They were thinking of putting that info online but that is also a double-edged sword - no smoke without a fire. Very much the situation and circular thinking you find on forums etc.

IF you have any concerns, I really would urge you to phone them (they will give you the PM reference number so you can follow that side up) and TS.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> lol i dont think she 'invented' it thats what I mean!
> 
> lol still think its weird!


Why do you think a bland diet of boiled chicken with rice is "weird"?


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

MaryA said:


> I am having some success with Classic. Some contain a lot of jelly though. It really helped me to find the probable cause of the soft poop. It was only when I put him on chicken plus rice and it made his poop even softer that Hobbs suggested removing the rice. Her advice was spot on and things firmed up. Once we realised it was the rice, we could make choices accordingly. So my Raggie is now on grain free only. I now also use 1/4 teaspoon of Diar-eze on each meal if there is a lot of jelly in the can, as I notice too much jelly tends to soften poop slightly too.


Yeah it does have a lot of jelly I've noticed. Number 1 absolutely adores jelly and he's ok so he's getting the benefit. Number 2 has had a tiny forkful so far and so far hasn't been to the loo but I don't know yet whether thats due to the food or the low quantity of it I've given him.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Have you phoned Applaws? Have you phoned Trading Standards?


Not yet. I have a business to run and my time is limited. Not a good excuse I know, but true nevertheless.



hobbs2004 said:


> They were thinking of putting that info online but that is also a double-edged sword - no smoke without a fire.


Well, there is a fire raging against them already. Methinks they should attempt to dampen the flames, as this issue isn't going away. Their choice of course. Nevertheless, with only a one sided picture, the damage has been done and will inevitably continue.

Your post is the FIRST I've seen anywhere containing any information which refutes the breeder's claim. Perhaps in time, other forums will pick up on it and the balance will be redressed. Meanwhile, I shall be interested to discover if the breeder responds to my email and in what fashion.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

hobbs2004 said:


> Why do you think a bland diet of boiled chicken with rice is "weird"?


nothing wrong with chicken as I said before I think thats really good and use it when mine have upset tum tums, but I think that the rice is weird! Didnt know cats needed rice full stop really, dont see a lion calling up for rice dish lol  :laugh:



Cloudygirl said:


> Yeah it does have a lot of jelly I've noticed. Number 1 absolutely adores jelly and he's ok so he's getting the benefit. Number 2 has had a tiny forkful so far and so far hasn't been to the loo but I don't know yet whether thats due to the food or the low quantity of it I've given him.


its good that he hasnt run to the loo so soon after eating, when did he last go?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> nothing wrong with chicken as I said before I think thats really good and use it when mine have upset tum tums, but I think that the rice is weird! Didnt know cats needed rice full stop really, dont see a lion calling up for rice dish lol  :laugh:


Lol, do you really think there is any merit it going that line of reasoning in this instance? I mean, would a lion get a plate of bland cooked chicken?

At the end of the day, this is not about lifetime nutritional choices but about trying to make a kitten/cat with diarrhoea solid again.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

hobbs2004 said:


> Lol, do you really think there is any merit it going that line of reasoning in this instance? I mean, would a lion get a plate of bland cooked chicken?
> 
> At the end of the day, this is not about lifetime nutritional choices but about trying to make a kitten/cat with diarrhoea solid again.


I am only joking hence the faces  I know what you said about bringing up stuff and its short term, still prefer no rice though but we all have different opinions


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> nothing wrong with chicken as I said before I think thats really good and use it when mine have upset tum tums, but I think that the rice is weird! Didnt know cats needed rice full stop really, dont see a lion calling up for rice dish lol  :laugh:
> 
> its good that he hasnt run to the loo so soon after eating, when did he last go?


This is a TMI post so I apologise in advance - last night I think. I'm sure the poo in the tray this morning belongs to number 1 lol. He went that much last night when it was runny again though that I'm not surprised he hasn't been since nothing left to poop lol.

So on the subject of rice is it worth me boiling up a bit to see if it gunks him up or stick to the chicken alone which appears to be working.

He's eaten a bowl full of chicken today, a forkful of butchers, and then nicked some of his brothers chicken so I think it's safe to say that he's eating ok. Number 1 did not look at all impressed.

Luckily I'm off work this week so at least can feed him bits during the day which is an advantage as I'm normally out so can't watch them.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Cloudygirl said:


> This is a TMI post so I apologise in advance - last night I think. I'm sure the poo in the tray this morning belongs to number 1 lol. He went that much last night when it was runny again though that I'm not surprised he hasn't been since nothing left to poop lol.
> 
> So on the subject of rice is it worth me boiling up a bit to see if it gunks him up or stick to the chicken alone which appears to be working.
> 
> ...


Can I just backpedal a bit Cloudygirl. 

Let me get this straight, You said that your cat no 2 is still runny.

He had been on the bland chicken and was firm on that.
You then added some of his normal food (felix) and he got runny again? (i.e. last night?)
Since today he is back on bland chicken with a little bit of classic and we are awaiting poop?

That right?

I would leave the rice be for the minute and continue on with the just bland chicken.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> This is a TMI post so I apologise in advance - last night I think. I'm sure the poo in the tray this morning belongs to number 1 lol. He went that much last night when it was runny again though that I'm not surprised he hasn't been since nothing left to poop lol.
> 
> So on the subject of rice is it worth me boiling up a bit to see if it gunks him up or stick to the chicken alone which appears to be working.
> 
> ...


if its working Id say no stick with it as if it takes him back to the start it wont be worth it, you could try a little bit mixed up with his chicken or meat, but then you dont know if he is sensitive to it or what he might be senitive to, have you bought any different food to try them on? porta 21 sensitive grain free i find really good for tum tums! have you been to the vet or back to the vet about it?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

MaryA said:


> Your post is the FIRST I've seen anywhere containing any information which refutes the breeder's claim. Perhaps in time, other forums will pick up on it and the balance will be redressed


TBH, there is a lot of info on here nutritionally that you will not find on other UK forums 

But re applaws dry, there are quite a few posters across the UK and internationally who are trying to instil some realism and balance into the equation.

Thing is, it is a psychological phenomenon that people have a completely skewed risk perception and that they tend to believe information that is dramatic and negative over subsequent evidence that refutes it.

The seed of doubt is a powerful thing


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> Can I just backpedal a bit Cloudygirl.
> 
> Let me get this straight, You said that your cat no 2 is still runny.
> 
> ...


Yep you are correct, he wasn't 100% firm on the chicken, it was just very slightly soft but he was a lot better than before on his regular food.

Felix added back in got a runny poo early last night and then late last night we had poo like water and then he's just heard me typing about this clearly because he's just gone and done a little one . Last night last thing I gave him a bowl of just a little bit of chicken (because he was miaowing for food despite having the diarrhoea) and today he's had chicken and a tiny forkful of the classic and the little poo he has just done is still loose but a lot lot more solid than he was yesterday with the felix so looks like we are getting back on track!!

I mentioned it to the vet when I took them for something else. She gave them both a good look over and doesn't think it's anything to worry about. New house, early days etc. I've also rung them since but they still don't think it's that unusual (they said try a feliway for a bit which I have ordered online but it hasn't come yet) but I think it's a food allergy. Obviously at the vets they go back into super timid mode so they just think timid cats who are unsettled and thats what the rescue said about them too, but they are little monsters who think they own the house when they are here on their own with me. You wouldn't think they were shy in a million years!!

Currently both going mad at the leaves floating on the glass roof of the extension!!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> Yep you are correct, he wasn't 100% firm on the chicken, it was just very slightly soft but he was a lot better than before on his regular food.
> 
> Felix added back in got a runny poo early last night and then late last night we had poo like water and then he's just heard me typing about this clearly because he's just gone and done a little one . Last night last thing I gave him a bowl of just a little bit of chicken (because he was miaowing for food despite having the diarrhoea) and today he's had chicken and a tiny forkful of the classic and the little poo he has just done is still loose but a lot lot more solid than he was yesterday with the felix so looks like we are getting back on track!!
> 
> ...


remember that he didnt do the chicken 100% though as he had some bics, glad its a little harder, will you change the biccis aswell? he may just have a sensitive tum, are they brothers?


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> TBH, there is a lot of info on here nutritionally that you will not find on other UK forums


Yes, I was just looking through your excellent list (bows to Hobbs)  to see what might be in the Felix which is causing Cloudygirl's kitten poop problems. There are so many types of Felix though and no nutritional info regarding the various products on their website as far as I could see. :frown:


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

MaryA said:


> Yes, I was just looking through your excellent list (bows to Hobbs)  to see what might be in the Felix which is causing Cloudygirl's kitten poop problems. There are so many types of Felix though and no nutritional info regarding the various products on their website as far as I could see. :frown:


Nope. Like most of the big conglomerates of manufacturers they hide behind statutory regulations and that means only declaring the minimum 4% flavour meat alongside other broad but essentially meaningless categories. And getting more info out of them is like milking stones.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Cloudygirl said:


> Yep you are correct, he wasn't 100% firm on the chicken, it was just very slightly soft but he was a lot better than before on his regular food.
> 
> Felix added back in got a runny poo early last night and then late last night we had poo like water and then he's just heard me typing about this clearly because he's just gone and done a little one . Last night last thing I gave him a bowl of just a little bit of chicken (because he was miaowing for food despite having the diarrhoea) and today he's had chicken and a tiny forkful of the classic and the little poo he has just done is still loose but a lot lot more solid than he was yesterday with the felix so looks like we are getting back on track!!
> 
> ...


In my experience, cats with diarrhoea due to allergies rather than a virus that also results in other changes (temperature) behave completely normally. Which is often a problem for peeps whose cats go out and who are unaware of the problem until the cat stays in one day or they start losing weight.

But in the long term that can create real problems as the nutrients that they take in just pass through them.

I am slightly concerned that your cat still had runny poo, even slightly, on just a diet of chicken (albeit with a couple of stolen crackers). More often than not you get the opposite problem - that poop is outstanding for a couple of days and people start stressing that their cat is now constipated.

Which leads me to query two things

1) it isn't a food sensitivity that is causing his runny tum in the first place in which case your way forward would be to get your vet to do a stool test (for parasites, bacteria etc)

2) your cat isn't that good with chicken. Instead of feeding them chicken, could you perhaps try a different animal. Turkey might work but might be too close to chicken. Or how about some beef? Just to see whether that either firms him up complete, makes it worse, or remains the same.

forgot to ask, has he always had sloppy poop?


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

I know he was naughty and nicked some biccies and that gave him runnier poo too. Have stopped biccies altogether right now. Will prob introduce some again later (just for ease, I'm away overnight next weekend but have someone staying at mine so feeding wet is no problem then but if you are away for a few days it's far easier for my cat feeder to feed wet when there and then to leave down dry rather than wet) but will try and leave it for a few weeks with a wet food that works first. I'm going to try increasing the wet really gradually so a couple of forkful with chicken today then maybe a bit more tomorrow and see what that does. 

He's currently got bored with trying to chase leaves and is sleeping away in the box under my table at my feet. Why buy a cat bed when they prefer sleeping in cardboard boxes lol

Yes they are proper brothers. Cats protection captured the 4 of them when they were teeny tinies but their mum escaped and then they were really poorly so it took 6 months before they were ready to be re-homed. The other person got the two boisterous kittens and I got the timid ones which is amusing because now mine are settled in they are so chaotic I just dread to think what hers are like. Kitten 1 is sooo naughty he is into everything.



Edit: just saw the post above. Yes he's always had sloppy poop since i've had him which is a month. On the chicken he didn't poo anything like as much, was sloppy when he had the biccies but then his other poos on the chicken weren't completely solid but they were a lot firmer than his normal poos. Just checked back on my posts because I have a memory like a sieve lol. He didn't poo until night 3 of chicken that was a bit sloppy but that was the night he had the biccies I think then he did two more poos just on the chicken both of which were a lot firmer (but quite smelly) but not completely solid. Then I've had the felix problem. 


I could try beef or something like turkey but I need to know what to buy and how to cook because I'm veggie so I don't own these things 

If none of this works I will take him to the vets with a sample and ask for tests but as I said they didn't seem that concerned.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> I know he was naughty and nicked some biccies and that gave him runnier poo too. Have stopped biccies altogether right now. Will prob introduce some again later (just for ease, I'm away overnight next weekend but have someone staying at mine so feeding wet is no problem then but if you are away for a few days it's far easier for my cat feeder to feed wet when there and then to leave down dry rather than wet) but will try and leave it for a few weeks with a wet food that works first. I'm going to try increasing the wet really gradually so a couple of forkful with chicken today then maybe a bit more tomorrow and see what that does.
> 
> He's currently got bored with trying to chase leaves and is sleeping away in the box under my table at my feet. Why buy a cat bed when they prefer sleeping in cardboard boxes lol
> 
> ...


you can try turkey breasts all the cooking instructions is on the side, bit of plain white boiled fish, if his always had a runny tum maybe its something more esp if he was caught and a stray, id pop back to the vet, does he drink milk? cats milk? one of them has gut flora and we sometimes add that to the chicken diet, also makes sure that they keep hydrated 

will you try different biccis? the sensitve porta 21 are really good, dont go back to the ones that give him dogdy tum or its all back to square one


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Cloudygirl said:


> Edit: just saw the post above. Yes he's always had sloppy poop since i've had him which is a month. On the chicken he didn't poo anything like as much, was sloppy when he had the biccies but then his other poos on the chicken weren't completely solid but they were a lot firmer than his normal poos. Just checked back on my posts because I have a memory like a sieve lol. He didn't poo until night 3 of chicken that was a bit sloppy but that was the night he had the biccies I think then he did two more poos just on the chicken both of which were a lot firmer (but quite smelly) but not completely solid. Then I've had the felix problem.
> 
> I could try beef or something like turkey but I need to know what to buy and how to cook because I'm veggie so I don't own these things
> 
> If none of this works I will take him to the vets with a sample and ask for tests but as I said they didn't seem that concerned.


Okay, here is what I would do. I would lock all that isn't plain boiled chicken away for both of your cats and just feed the plain boiled chicken for a day or two. If it was the few bits of kibble that set him off then the draconic diet of just chicken should result in a solid, non-sloppy poop!

If it does, then look into changing the wet as well as the dry
If not, well then I would opt for the stool test and would also try a different animal source.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Edit ok scratch that then I'll try them both on just the chicken for another couple of days and if not then vets!!

Will just try my old vets I think rather than the one they went to last time.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Just an update to say back on chicken - overnight no poos


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> Just an update to say back on chicken - overnight no poos


sounds like its working, he will poop less, prob have one later tonight or tom, should be a little harder each time! :thumbup:


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

My statement about human psychology, risk perception and the seed of doubt was a general statement. 

Out of interest, what food are you feeding now?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

TWYMAN said:


> Well hello Hobbs.
> I wonder what would you want to know what food I am feeding.
> I would like to know what your agenda is first - what is your interest in pet foods - are you a nutritionist or a vet or connected to a manufacturer ??


Just interested in food, which stems back to one of my cats having extensive food allergies. Family background of holistic vets, chemists and nutritionists but not one myself.

No agenda whatsoever. Just really interested, that is all.

And most certainly not connected to a manufacturer though often pondering whether I should open my own raw food shop or not.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

TWYMAN said:


> Mary
> 
> Ask your vet to take a stool sample for Tritrichomonas Foetus PCR Assay
> 
> ...


Thankfully, it isn't chronic diarrhoea any more. I appreciate your advice however and other readers may certainly find it of benefit.  Thanks to Hobbs and others here, we have discovered my Raggie has a rice intolerance. I shall now be gradually introducing grain free products such as Orijen, Acana and Feline Finest. I have also found great benefit from a product from USA called Diar-eze and sprinkle just a tiny pinch on each meal.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> sounds like its working, he will poop less, prob have one later tonight or tom, should be a little harder each time! :thumbup:


so I've got two small solid poos on the chicken :thumbup::thumbup:

what foods should I try him on.

He seems to have issues with the felix and the butchers which are both chunks in jelly so should I try him on a pate food or a food in gravy in case it's the jelly? Any recommendations?

Do I persevere with food feeding a tiny amount for a few days in case it's just his sensitive stomach or if I get loose poo again do I immediately stop feeding that food?


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Cloudygirl said:


> so I've got two small solid poos on the chicken :thumbup::thumbup:


I am so pleased for you. I know the relief and delight in that, being the one who started this thread.  It's a pity the Butchers doesn't work. Hopefully others more experienced in matters of nutrition will make suggestions. Fingers crossed it all works out for you.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

MaryA said:


> I am so pleased for you. I know the relief and delight in that, being the one who started this thread.  It's a pity the Butchers doesn't work. Hopefully others more experienced in matters of nutrition will make suggestions. Fingers crossed it all works out for you.


sorry I'm a thread stealer. Is your cat completely ok now on the butchers?

I wonder what mine is allergic too if the dry and the wet sets him off I wonder if he has a sensitivity to more than one thing. Or maybe it's just that his stomach has never calmed down properly from moving here. He is the less outgoing of my boys. Am so relieved as surely the solid poo means he doesn't have anything nasty.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Cloudygirl said:


> sorry I'm a thread stealer. Is your cat completely ok now on the butchers?
> 
> I wonder what mine is allergic too if the dry and the wet sets him off I wonder if he has a sensitivity to more than one thing. Or maybe it's just that his stomach has never calmed down properly from moving here. He is the less outgoing of my boys. Am so relieved as surely the solid poo means he doesn't have anything nasty.


You are welcome to be carrying this forwards. I am really pleased it has been of benefit to you. Isn't solid poo wonderful. :lol: :lol: :lol:

My cat seems ok, yes, though with two cats and three litter trays, it's a bit difficult to tell which cat has done what. No sloppys anywhere, that's the main thing. :thumbup: I am giving them both a tiny pinch of the Diar-eze with each meal though.

I am also trying a few different products for one meal a day, making sure that it contains no grain at all. I've also introduced some Orijen for overnight and shall be getting both my cats their first chicken wings this week. Should make for growls and fireworks. 

As a way of a change from the chicken, I gave mine freshly boiled turkey and fish. This really gave his tummy time to settle down. I don't know what could be setting your little one off. Hopefully, TB, Tje and Hobbs can guide you further.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

When I brought my Ragdoll home, he started with the runs. Advice I was offered at the time suggested it was the change of water. I use mainly bottled water for all my pets now.

I feed them JWB complete and wet food.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

sskmick said:


> When I brought my Ragdoll home, he started with the runs. Advice I was offered at the time suggested it was the change of water. I use mainly bottled water for all my pets now.
> 
> I feed them JWB complete and wet food.


I can understand that. However, all our household drinking water is double filtered but that didn't help in this case. I didn't know then that he had a grain intolerance. As part of a dry mix, I was using JWB, but it has 26% rice. So I was actually making the problem worse.:frown: :eek6: It really is a difficult issue to sort out, but it sounds like CloudyGirl is on the way.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> so I've got two small solid poos on the chicken :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> what foods should I try him on.
> 
> ...


yah!!! keep him on chicken for another 2 days, then id try a food like hi life, something high in protein, i think petsathome also do a 60% & a 90% one, wet food only give him, say, a quater of a packet in the morning with some chicken, that way you can access him through the day. I wouldnt try pate as it seems to be very rich and def not gravy.

If you go for dry id really recomend porta 21 sensitive, it really helped with my 2 rags who had a bit of wet poop, now rock soild haha :laugh:

just do a tablespoon full in the morning, do it very slowly and gradually, in the morning then that way you have the day to watch him!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm away just overnight at the weekend am leaving a couple of tubs of chicken in fridge as have someone staying and feeding them don't think that poop scooping duties come into that though so dont know whether to leave them just on chicken until I get back or whether to start adding something in tomorrow then I'll feed them saturday morning and sunday night and then just leaves two feeds for my friend. 

I guess maybe I could add something in tomorrow night and then saturday morning leave the other feeds just as chicken (simple for friend to remember also) and then add a little of something else in sunday night as I'll be back. Next week I'm back at work so was really hoping to get this sorted while I was off. I suppose at least we are going in the right direction and hopefully I now know that he doesn't have the plague. Interestingly his poos seem better since I got that litter anti bac spray stuff you mentioned as well as feeding the chicken so I wonder if that is also related...I've nuked their litter trays and have been spraying the litter after I've scooped out the poops.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> I'm away just overnight at the weekend am leaving a couple of tubs of chicken in fridge as have someone staying and feeding them don't think that poop scooping duties come into that though so dont know whether to leave them just on chicken until I get back or whether to start adding something in tomorrow then I'll feed them saturday morning and sunday night and then just leaves two feeds for my friend.
> 
> I guess maybe I could add something in tomorrow night and then saturday morning leave the other feeds just as chicken (simple for friend to remember also) and then add a little of something else in sunday night as I'll be back. Next week I'm back at work so was really hoping to get this sorted while I was off. I suppose at least we are going in the right direction and hopefully I now know that he doesn't have the plague. Interestingly his poos seem better since I got that litter anti bac spray stuff you mentioned as well as feeding the chicken so I wonder if that is also related...I've nuked their litter trays and have been spraying the litter after I've scooped out the poops.


id leave the feeding for until you get back just incase your friend gives too much or they get bad tums then your friend wont know what to do, that way its 2 extra days then you can start thr slowly introducing of food again!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Just updating to say still doing well. Only a tiny bit of poo but all looks fine!!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

sorry this is like the poo diaries but today he wouldn't stop eating he ate all of his chicken then wanted more (and I didn't have any more in eek) so I had to give him something and gave him a tiny bit of the pets at home food that I've bought to try him on next (thanks for that suggestion) and a few hours after that he had a big but really really solid poo. I'm so relieved. Also looks like thats something that he can tolerate so now I need to find a similar hopefully slightly cheaper version of it. 

Am just cooking chicken supplies for when I'm away overnight and hopefully when I get back we will try gradually introducing the new food.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

me again. Apparently they've eaten the place down while I've been away and had some of the pets at home food as well (because they were miaowing after having food so they got the sympathy vote  I have come back to flavours I didn't buy so they've obviously been spoilt rotten and the evidence has been erased lol sneaky huh. I know what was in the cupboard and there are the same amount but different flavours lol). All solid poos. So is there anything I can feed that is similar to this or is it just tough luck and suck up the cost it's a wee bit expensive. It's the 90% chicken or the 50% fish. They are clearly going down a storm. I wonder what the heck isn't in them that is in the butchers and the felix. 

Also do I try to reintroduce a dried food? and how do I know which one when I don't know what the dodg ingredient is. It obviously can't be a grain allergy or anything like that cos the butchers doesn't contain that stuff. I'm so confused!!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> sorry this is like the poo diaries but today he wouldn't stop eating he ate all of his chicken then wanted more (and I didn't have any more in eek) so I had to give him something and gave him a tiny bit of the pets at home food that I've bought to try him on next (thanks for that suggestion) and a few hours after that he had a big but really really solid poo. I'm so relieved. Also looks like thats something that he can tolerate so now I need to find a similar hopefully slightly cheaper version of it.
> 
> Am just cooking chicken supplies for when I'm away overnight and hopefully when I get back we will try gradually introducing the new food.





Cloudygirl said:


> me again. Apparently they've eaten the place down while I've been away and had some of the pets at home food as well (because they were miaowing after having food so they got the sympathy vote  I have come back to flavours I didn't buy so they've obviously been spoilt rotten and the evidence has been erased lol sneaky huh. I know what was in the cupboard and there are the same amount but different flavours lol). All solid poos. So is there anything I can feed that is similar to this or is it just tough luck and suck up the cost it's a wee bit expensive. It's the 90% chicken or the 50% fish. They are clearly going down a storm. I wonder what the heck isn't in them that is in the butchers and the felix.
> 
> Also do I try to reintroduce a dried food? and how do I know which one when I don't know what the dodg ingredient is. It obviously can't be a grain allergy or anything like that cos the butchers doesn't contain that stuff. I'm so confused!!


yah well done! :laugh:

what id do is slowly do the half half so its half chick half food, then over a 5days slowly less chick and more food until they are 100% off the chick and 100% on the cat food  then wait a week before slowly adding the dry, porta 21 sensitve works out to about £1 a week per cat so thats really good, then as long as its done slowly it should be fine!

well done for sticking to it, its well worth it isnt it!! :laugh: :thumbup:


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Definitely I'm so grateful for all the help and advice everyone has given. I was so worried about them overnight so was lovely to come back and find decent poos. They are weeing tons prob because I've been giving them the chicken in some of the liquid that I boiled it in to make it nice and soft but the litter tray is bearable to clean now!!

Am just making up a batch of chicken now before bed so they have it ready for the morning. His coat looks a lot more glossy I've noticed tonight and I think he's got a little bit fatter so its all good.

I think even when he is sorted they will have to have meat once a week as a treat because they go mad for it. They sit by the oven and watch it cook. Sooo cute.

Is the Porta21 this one? And is 2kg the smallest size you can buy it in?

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/porta_21/170885


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> Definitely I'm so grateful for all the help and advice everyone has given. I was so worried about them overnight so was lovely to come back and find decent poos. They are weeing tons prob because I've been giving them the chicken in some of the liquid that I boiled it in to make it nice and soft but the litter tray is bearable to clean now!!
> 
> Am just making up a batch of chicken now before bed so they have it ready for the morning. His coat looks a lot more glossy I've noticed tonight and I think he's got a little bit fatter so its all good.
> 
> ...


yeh thats it, I have also found sanbelle and natures taste of the wild raelly good, but sanbelle has grains in it.

it looks alot of money but it works out to the same as whiskas/other brands, plus mine tend to eat less of it and i have 6cats eating it and its its lasted 6/8weeks i have another 6weeks left of it and that was 2 10kg bags! bargain! and thats with 3 in kitten so eating more than they normally do!!


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## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

Just wondering, why do you want to feed dry aswell?


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Chez87 said:


> Just wondering, why do you want to feed dry aswell?


so they have something to graze on when I'm out at work. They are piggies, plus it's easier to leave something out when I'm away at the weekend and also it'll make it a bit cheaper.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

still good poos he has got more appetite now than he has since I've had him. Is now catching up with his piggie brother in the mewing for food department. 

I just wonder what the heck it is that he isn't good with. He seems absolutely fine with both the 50 and the 90% pets at home food chicken and fish. 

Is the porta 21 a lot better option than encore which is also grain free? Just wondering as encore I can buy a small bag and try it out whereas I'm going to have to do a big order for porta 21 is there anywhere else I can get it from other than zooplus?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> still good poos he has got more appetite now than he has since I've had him. Is now catching up with his piggie brother in the mewing for food department.
> 
> I just wonder what the heck it is that he isn't good with. He seems absolutely fine with both the 50 and the 90% pets at home food chicken and fish.
> 
> Is the porta 21 a lot better option than encore which is also grain free? Just wondering as encore I can buy a small bag and try it out whereas I'm going to have to do a big order for porta 21 is there anywhere else I can get it from other than zooplus?


cant comment on encore as have only used the wet, but can recomend porta, but still try it might be ok never know! it might not even be grains could be something different! dont know if anywhere else sell portA??


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

meh I'll get the porta21 I think and then if they won't eat it or it upsets them, it's a donation to the cat shelter. I've already got some felix pouches and tins that I might as well donate.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lol well you can always try it, just do it slowly!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

another update STILL good poops. On about 80% normal food now. I had intended to go slower but they are eating me out of house and home!!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> another update STILL good poops. On about 80% normal food now. I had intended to go slower but they are eating me out of house and home!!


yah!!! told you it would work!! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

well it's taken a few weeks but it's so much better now. Can't believe it really you guys are stars!! Got to be far nicer for him that he doesn't have an upset tummy and i can't smell the litter trays as I come in the door. Also now he's going about once or twice a day when before it was once or twice an hour 

The only problem is that it's worked but I have no idea how  I thought when they came he had an issue with fish as he was particularly bad after the felix fish pouches but he is now happily chomping away on pets at home fish feast pouches so it can't be the fish. He seems fine on fish, chicken and turkey based foods provided they cost me the earth lol. Maybe he just has expensive taste!!


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> well it's taken a few weeks but it's so much better now. Can't believe it really you guys are stars!! Got to be far nicer for him that he doesn't have an upset tummy and i can't smell the litter trays as I come in the door. Also now he's going about once or twice a day when before it was once or twice an hour
> 
> The only problem is that it's worked but I have no idea how  I thought when they came he had an issue with fish as he was particularly bad after the felix fish pouches but he is now happily chomping away on pets at home fish feast pouches so it can't be the fish. He seems fine on fish, chicken and turkey based foods provided they cost me the earth lol. Maybe he just has expensive taste!!


NONE and I mean NONE of my cats have ever liked or will eat the fish pouches/tins!!! little noses turn up and they would rather starve!

not sure why, just preference i guess, more 'meat' as in running animal eaters! :lol:


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> NONE and I mean NONE of my cats have ever liked or will eat the fish pouches/tins!!! little noses turn up and they would rather starve!
> 
> not sure why, just preference i guess, more 'meat' as in running animal eaters! :lol:


The only food mine have totally shunned so far was when I tried them with a bit of hilife mixed into their food back when I was first trying to get them off the felix. They kept trying to eat the other food round it and ignore it. No idea what it is about chicken hilife that offended them as it doesn't seem to be any different than the pets at home 50% chicken and they will eat that like there is no tomorrow   

I dont think they realise they are rescue mogs and that they should be grateful for what they've got. They seem to think they are royalty and I am their human slave lol.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> The only food mine have totally shunned so far was when I tried them with a bit of hilife mixed into their food back when I was first trying to get them off the felix. They kept trying to eat the other food round it and ignore it. No idea what it is about chicken hilife that offended them as it doesn't seem to be any different than the pets at home 50% chicken and they will eat that like there is no tomorrow
> 
> I dont think they realise they are rescue mogs and that they should be grateful for what they've got. They seem to think they are royalty and I am their human slave lol.


none of mine will eat hi life or alplaws, they just love the bog standard stuff 
the kittens I have will eat it though!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Update still having a few food issues. 

Started them on the purely scrummy range the 90%. Poos are fine but they aren't so keen on eating it. It's a bit weird consistency. They are fine with the fish tins mixed in but with the purely chicken pouches - the chicken and beef one gives them both the runs but the chicken and liver and just chicken are fine. So is there an allergy to beef too? Or does it just make stomach more sensitive because they are used to eating chicken or fish based foods now I don't understand?? It's only 4% beef anyway?? but no other difference I can see in the ingredients. Fed them boiled chicken for a couple of days after that as one of their feeds and went back to solid poo within a day so must have been that. 

And they still won't eat hilife pouches even though the ingredients look the same as the purely chicken pouches. I wish they would because they are about half the price grrrr!!!


Puddy cat 2 is in my bad books at the moment anyway. Number 1 is very affectionate but number 2 only wants you when he wants you then last night he was all over my friends he played under my one friend's chair all night and then at the end of the night jumped on the other friend's lap. He's never jumped on my lap  

Cats who'd have em


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

have you tried the biscuits yet? it may just be wet food, my raggie girl ellie cant eat wet food, it just make her tum upset, so she has dry, infact none oif my ragdolls actually like wet food, so I just pay a bit more and get a nice quality dry, its worked out to 15per day for 5 cats!! :scared: if Ive worked that out right that flippin amazing! 

with the actual food, if I do get wet some of them wont eat the food that like pate? 

tell you what if you want ive got some tins of smila, mine dont like it do you want it?

oh sorry about him jumping in your friends lap, that upsets me to!!


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

I've tried a bit of applaws (my kind friend gave me a sample of the chicken one) because they were never that keen on dry and I wasn't sure if thats cos it really disagreed with them or if they just don't like dry and the first feeding they devoured it but the second feeding they weren't so bothered but thats prob cos there was boiled chicken on offer and they love that. 

It seemed to go down ok though so it must be the grains/cereals whatever thats the issue. 

I'm intending to do a big zooplus order after pay day so will try Porta21 then. 

What flavour is the Smilla? That is one of the foods I've been looking at on zooplus.


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## darkshines (Feb 22, 2011)

I might try giving Gizmo some boiled chicken, his poops have been a little wetter lately, and quite orangey (bile?).


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Luke aka Poppet still has poop problems too, but I can't get to the root cause of what else does it other than the rice. :arf: Origin gives him the poops, so does anything with jelly. :arf: In fact everything except boiled chicken, fish, turkey and raw minced beef seem to upset him. Both turn their nose up at raw other than than a bit of beef. 

I am worried that I may not be doing the best for him nutritionally if I follow the boiled chicken, fish, turkey and raw minced beef route for a long period of time, although it stops the soft poop issues totally. 

Are there any good no grain pate type foods at [email protected] he could trial, before I do a big order with Zooplus for the Porta 21 etc? If pate foods cause problems too, I'm at a loss how best to proceed.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

MaryA said:


> Luke aka Poppet still has poop problems too, but I can't get to the root cause of what else does it other than the rice. :arf: Origin gives him the poops, so does anything with jelly. :arf: In fact everything except boiled chicken, fish, turkey and raw minced beef seem to upset him. Both turn their nose up at raw other than than a bit of beef.
> 
> I am worried that I may not be doing the best for him nutritionally if I follow the boiled chicken, fish, turkey and raw minced beef route for a long period of time, although it stops the soft poop issues totally.
> 
> Are there any good no grain pate type foods at [email protected] he could trial, before I do a big order with Zooplus for the Porta 21 etc? If pate foods cause problems too, *I'm at a loss how best to proceed*.


Has Poppet had his stools tested for bacteria/parasites yet? If so, did anything show up?

Sorry if you've mentioned this elsewhere, I haven't been on the forum regularly.


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

dougal22 said:


> Has Poppet had his stools tested for bacteria/parasites yet? If so, did anything show up?


Our vet said that as the chicken etc leaves solid poops, it wouldn't be bacteria or parasites. However, I will get a second opinion if the pate food disagrees too.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

MaryA said:


> *Our vet said that as the chicken etc leaves solid poops, it wouldn't be bacteria or parasites*. However, I will get a second opinion if the pate food disagrees too.


Without having the tests done, I don't anyone should make that assumption. I won't go into detail, but I had a similar problem with my cats. I had the stool tests done, clear diagnosis, relative treatment and everything settled down pretty quick after that.

Like you, I changed foods etc to try to isolate a particular food source that *may* be causing a problem, but without conclusive tests, it's just a shot in the dark. Poppet's problems have gone on for a bit too long; having samples tested should be the next step


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

dougal22 said:


> Without having the tests done, I don't anyone should make that assumption. I won't go into detail, but I had a similar problem with my cats. I had the stool tests done, clear diagnosis, relative treatment and everything settled down pretty quick after that.
> 
> Like you, I changed foods etc to try to isolate a particular food source that *may* be causing a problem, but without conclusive tests, it's just a shot in the dark. Poppet's problems have gone on for a bit too long; having samples tested should be the next step


I agree completely - time to explore this more systematically with the vet. Get a detailed stool analysis done. If that comes back clear, then a proper elimination diet and allergy blood test might be in order.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cloudygirl said:


> I've tried a bit of applaws (my kind friend gave me a sample of the chicken one) because they were never that keen on dry and I wasn't sure if thats cos it really disagreed with them or if they just don't like dry and the first feeding they devoured it but the second feeding they weren't so bothered but thats prob cos there was boiled chicken on offer and they love that.
> 
> It seemed to go down ok though so it must be the grains/cereals whatever thats the issue.
> 
> ...


its the chicken tuna, ah prob better off just buying some, meg and the kits started to eat it last night, typical!



MaryA said:


> Luke aka Poppet still has poop problems too, but I can't get to the root cause of what else does it other than the rice. :arf: Origin gives him the poops, so does anything with jelly. :arf: In fact everything except boiled chicken, fish, turkey and raw minced beef seem to upset him. Both turn their nose up at raw other than than a bit of beef.
> 
> I am worried that I may not be doing the best for him nutritionally if I follow the boiled chicken, fish, turkey and raw minced beef route for a long period of time, although it stops the soft poop issues totally.
> 
> Are there any good no grain pate type foods at [email protected] he could trial, before I do a big order with Zooplus for the Porta 21 etc? If pate foods cause problems too, I'm at a loss how best to proceed.


id pop him into the vets actually, better safe than sorry, the best foods ive found is natures taste of the wild and porta 21, i also use sanbelle but it has grains in it, but my raggie cleared up her wet ppop within about 2 days of eating it!

maybe also try bozita, alot of people rave about that on the bengal sites as bengals do have upset tums and people who use that say that its great?


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> its the chicken tuna, ah prob better off just buying some, meg and the kits started to eat it last night, typical!


hehe I was wondering if you'd tried it with your kits. Thanks for the offer anyway 

I bet your house is soo cute right now with so many kittens. If you get bored feel free to send the cuteness to me in the post 

Mary A I thought you were doing ok with the Butchers? That sucks.

The pets at home food seems to work with mine with giving them great poops. The only problem with it is that it's such a weird consistency they aren't that keen on it. You would think that they would associate the food with their tums but nope. So they would chomp down the felix which gave them diarrhoea but the purely which gives them great tums they aren't so keen on doh.

So at the moment they get either this one - 







or the fish one with either (depending on whether I feed fish or chicken) a chicken pouch or a fish tin mixed in. You have to mix it in for them to eat it and sometimes I add a bit of water or chicken broth too (genius friend suggested I froze some in ice cube containers). If i just feed it plain they aren't interested at all but seems to do wonders for tums.

So if you are looking for a pate like food it might be one to try. Depending on weight you feed 1 to 2 trays a day and it's not too expensive really for such a high chicken or fish content.

vets said the same as yours re the chicken and the food allergies. Since I've got them off the chicken and onto the purely they have been fine except for the time I fed them chicken and beef pouch which gave them both dodg tums but that went back to normal almost straight away and stayed ok. Might be worth popping yours to the vets though if there seems to be no pattern to it.

Re grain free I tried mine with a sample of applaws just to see if it was ok with no grain and they seemed fine with that so I'm doing a zooplus order and trying the porta21 after pay day which is mid month, if you don't have any by then and want me to send you a little sample so you can try a bit with him to see if any good let me know.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lol i know none of them would eat it (flippin typical!) then I thought might as well try it again with little one, meg & the kits, all ate it! :laugh:

I can still send you a tin but itll prob cost more to send then to buy, flippin heavy!! :lol:

hope the porta works!


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Cloudygirl said:


> Mary A I thought you were doing ok with the Butchers? That sucks.
> 
> The pets at home food seems to work with mine with giving them great poops.


Yes, Cloudygirl, it does suck.  The Bozita tetrapack and the Classic has a lot of jelly, that's why I'll try the pate style product you suggest. Thank you so much for the picture too. That was great. 

As per TB's suggestion :thumbup: I'm also going to send off for the Nature's Taste of the wild, Porta 21 etc, some Smilla chicken tuna and some tinned Bozita which I gather has a lot less jelly than the tetrapacks. If the pate style doesn't work, then I'm off to the vet, as I will have tried everything.

Fortunately, as I said previously, they are eating well on other food with no issues other than draining my bank account.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

MaryA said:


> Yes, Cloudygirl, it does suck.  The Bozita tetrapack and the Classic has a lot of jelly, that's why I'll try the pate style product you suggest. Thank you so much for the picture too. That was great.
> 
> As per TB's suggestion :thumbup: I'm also going to send off for the Nature's Taste of the wild, Porta 21 etc, some Smilla chicken tuna and some tinned Bozita which I gather has a lot less jelly than the tetrapacks. If the pate style doesn't work, then I'm off to the vet, as I will have tried everything.
> 
> Fortunately, as I said previously, they are eating well on other food with no issues other than draining my bank account.


Just don't despair if they don't eat it at first. I've had to be creative with it as I said to get them to eat it as it is very very dry. A little chicken or fish water mixed in with it works wonders. I got them eating it by gradually mixing it in with boiled chicken and broth.

Mine are also very fond of this which is in jelly but it's quite a light jelly consistency. My cat that doesn't like eating jelly much likes it. So might be worth trying a tin and seeing if it's ok for them.










they also do a tuna in that range which isn't in jelly and it's a complete food but I can't find a link to the picture of that one sorry. Not cheap though it's 2 to 3 tins a day per cat.

Let me know how you go with the other pate foods because I clearly need more options to keep my boys interested.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

MaryA said:


> Yes, Cloudygirl, it does suck.  The Bozita tetrapack and the Classic has a lot of jelly, that's why I'll try the pate style product you suggest. Thank you so much for the picture too. That was great.
> 
> As per TB's suggestion :thumbup: I'm also going to send off for the Nature's Taste of the wild, Porta 21 etc, some Smilla chicken tuna and some tinned Bozita which I gather has a lot less jelly than the tetrapacks. *If the pate style doesn't work, then I'm off to the vet, as I will have tried everything*.
> *
> Fortunately, as I said previously, they are eating well on other food with no issues other than draining my bank account.*


The 'poo' issues with Poppet appear to have been ongoing since 28 December 2010, without a resolution in sight.

I see from other threads/posts that people have advised to have stool tests; some posts in particular advise in relation to TF.

By having these tests done, you could have saved yourself lot of money on various foods and also saved yourself a lot of worry. Until the tests are carried out, you will never know for sure what is causing Poppet's problems. Also, all the changing of food cannot be good for him, surely 

ps - I have also seen from previous posts that you were sprinkling 'Diareze' on Poppet's food. Are you still doing this? I was wondering if it's the equivalent of us humans taking Immodium long term, which wouldn't be good


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Dougal22, There is a level of resolution. Cooked chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, fish is fine and gives solid stools.

I have been balancing him out on my home cooked food then re-introducing a product and monitoring its effect. All dry is out, jelly is out, rice is out. So, it's finding a pre-made pate style product now that is free from those or carrying on cooking for him myself.

BTW, Diar-eze is good for cats and can be used long term. For further info see here.

Vet Select Diar-eze Formula From AllergicPet.com

Cloudygirl, thanks for the follow up advice, it is appreciated. I'll certainly let you know how it goes with the pate type products.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

MaryA said:


> Dougal22, There is a level of resolution. Cooked chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, fish is fine and gives solid stools.
> 
> I have been balancing him out on my home cooked food then re-introducing a product and monitoring its effect. All dry is out, jelly is out, rice is out. So, it's finding a pre-made pate style product now that is free from those or carrying on cooking for him myself.
> 
> ...


If you're happy medicating your cat for a symptom and not finding out the cause, then that's fine by me 

My perception is, you asked on an open forum for advice, you choose not to take the advice, that's fine. However, long term medicating a cat for a 'symptom' and feeding a diet as listed above which may not meet all of the nutritional requirements is not something I would advocate; but again, your choice.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

Can I ask do you get sloppy poops even with the diareze or does it stop it?

Also how quickly or slowly are you introducing new cat food and are you feeding it one food at a time or introducing more than one flavour or brand at once?


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Cloudygirl, I think I did it too quickly in the beginning, but have slowed down a lot now. One problem I encountered was that he is a total thief, stealing the other cat's food or anything he can get his paws on. Last week he got into the Orijen on top of the kitchen cabinet, and gave himself diarrhoea. It doesn't help. :eek6: I thought I had cracked it with the Classic, but it was not to be. Two days of it and soft poop was back, but I was also trying different flavours.

It really is difficult to resolve, but following advice here and elsewhere including the vet and things are much better. It is ironic that the recommendations for best foods on this forum are the very thing which seem troublesome for him. One trys to do one's best and it goes pearshaped. 

It is amazing how many cats experience such problems. I shall keep in touch you off list with my progress, please let me know how you get on too, then perhaps we can return to this thread for others with positive input from our own experience.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

I think my problem now isn't the sloopy poops it's getting them on a cat food that they will eat long term. They clearly find the pate food boring and repetitive and who can blame them. Pets at home need to do more flavours!!

I also had the problem with the thieving so I ended up having to feed them both exactly the same and give away all the other food. 

I gave away pretty much a whole cupboard full of cat food


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

MaryA said:


> Dougal22, There is a level of resolution. Cooked chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, fish is fine and gives solid stools.
> 
> I have been balancing him out on my home cooked food then re-introducing a product and monitoring its effect. All dry is out, jelly is out, rice is out. So, it's finding a pre-made pate style product now that is free from those or carrying on cooking for him myself.
> 
> ...


MaryA, am I correct in believing that so far none of the "commercial" foods have kept his stools firm?

The thing is the list of things he could be reacting to is huge. With the jelly - is it all jelly/gelatine/broth or does it depend on the emulsifier? With the grains - is it only rice or does it extend into other grains?

While not 100% reliable a blood allergy test or some other food allergy test may now be in order I think at the very least. And definitely a stool test to rule out any bacteria/parasites.

When was the last time you saw a vet regarding this? If your vet doesn't feel that s/he can help then perhaps get a referral or seek out another vet.



dougal22 said:


> If you're happy medicating your cat for a symptom and not finding out the cause, then that's fine by me
> 
> My perception is, you asked on an open forum for advice, you choose not to take the advice, that's fine. However, long term medicating a cat for a 'symptom' and feeding a diet as listed above which may not meet all of the nutritional requirements is not something I would advocate; but again, your choice.


So true Dougal22. This has been going on for nearly 3 months now I believe during which time his nutrition (though a growing lad) hasn't been optimal. Does he get some vitamin and mineral supplement?



MaryA said:


> Cloudygirl, I think I did it too quickly in the beginning, but have slowed down a lot now. One problem I encountered was that he is a total thief, stealing the other cat's food or anything he can get his paws on. Last week he got into the Orijen on top of the kitchen cabinet, and gave himself diarrhoea. It doesn't help. :eek6: I thought I had cracked it with the Classic, but it was not to be. Two days of it and soft poop was back, but I was also trying different flavours.
> 
> It really is difficult to resolve, but following advice here and elsewhere including the vet and *things are much better.* It is ironic that the recommendations for best foods on this forum are the very thing which seem troublesome for him. One trys to do one's best and it goes pearshaped.
> 
> It is amazing how many cats experience such problems. I shall keep in touch you off list with my progress, please let me know how you get on too, then perhaps we can return to this thread for others with positive input from our own experience.


Is that so? Are things much better? It sounds as though that at the minute he can only tolerate the homecooked diet (how balanced you make that I have no idea). Sounds as though you have reached something of a stalemate at the moment.

PS: Have you recently tried those Hills pouches again that he was fine on early in January?


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

Cloudygirl said:


> I think my problem now isn't the sloopy poops it's getting them on a cat food that they will eat long term. They clearly find the pate food boring and repetitive and who can blame them. Pets at home need to do more flavours!!
> 
> I also had the problem with the thieving so I ended up having to feed them both exactly the same and give away all the other food.
> 
> I gave away pretty much a whole cupboard full of cat food


From Hobbs excellent list, there is Animonda Carny, Bozita TINS, and Smilla, all of which are good quality pate, reasonably priced and are available in various flavours. I am placing an order for all of these today from Zooplus and also getting some Purely Scrummy Yummy from [email protected] I had some samples of Lily's Kitchen at Olympia. It is a pate but very expensive, so I am mixing it with the home cooked and the poops are solid so far.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Mary, I do agree with a few other members here. It may be that you're making up the meat you're feeding into a nutritionally complete diet with various supplementation, in which case ignore me completely  With a gastrointentinal problem dragging on, even intermittently, for a couple of months I think it vitally important to first attempt to rule out a parasitic cause. I'm not sure that I could say that the likes of TF, giardia and coccidia are becoming more common in cats; rather I think it's a case of increasing awareness (on the part of owners, breeders and vets) of these as a possible root cause.

Though chicken is usually the first thing tried to settle a cat's upset tummy, any muscle meat alone is severely nutritionally deficient. More than once I've received a stern telling off from my vet when I've given cooked chicken alone for more than just several days to kittens who have an upset tummy at some point through the weaning process. I really don't wish to be alarmist but I've seen, first hand, a young adult cat (who actually had no prior poor health, he was just a complete muscle meat junkie) who developed real problems - lack of balance and eventually collapse - as a result of his limited diet. Fortunately he made a speedy recovery once diagnosed with severe vitamin/mineral deficiency. I've also known cats with intermittent and/or persistent diarrhoea who did improve somewhat on a bland meat only diet who nonetheless were eventually diagnosed with intestinal parasites. I think it's always worth checking for in the first instance.


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## catsmum (Feb 4, 2011)

Mary A, Is there a reason why you dont want to get stool tests done?

i was very worried about how expensive the tests would be when one of mine had the runs for 2 weeks but the costs of the tests werent half as bad as I thought they would be 

and it did turn out that mine had a bacterial infection so it was good I got the tests done as my bland diet would never have worked.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

MaryA said:


> Poppet my 5 month old ragdoll has had very soft sloppy stools since we got him. *The vet can find nothing wrong*.
> Today, but too late for his breakfast, I received a product from the USA called Diareze and shall see if that helps. If it doesn't I'm a bit lost after that other than trying a different vet.


*No tests have been done, so how can the vet know?*



dougal22 said:


> Has the vet had Poppet's stools tested at the lab to rule out bacteria, parasites etc?





Chez87 said:


> It might be best to get a stool sample sent off to check for parasites. There was a raggie on here recently with ongoing soft stools and it turned out to be Giardia, which I think can be treated quite easily? At least then you'd be sure.





Aurelia said:


> This is what I'm thinking  It will take a few days worth of samples to find out.





MaryA said:


> Please don't think I'm dismissing any advice, I'm not. I'm just want to do what's best for my raggie. I shall do TBs three days of chicken and if no better I shall ask the vet do some tests and if he won't I'll find a vet who will!!


*Approximately 9 weeks have passed, still no tests?*



hobbs2004 said:


> However, I do agree with the others. IF it continues being sloppy and doesn't show any signs of firming up at all, then I would send it off for testing. There is no point faffing around with diet or an elimination diet any further if there is a chance of a parasitic or bacterial reason for it all. B





hobbs2004 said:


> I am slightly concerned that your cat still had runny poo, even slightly, on just a diet of chicken (albeit with a couple of stolen crackers). More often than not you get the opposite problem - that poop is outstanding for a couple of days and people start stressing that their cat is now constipated.
> 
> Which leads me to query two things
> 
> ...





hobbs2004 said:


> I would opt for the stool test and would also try a different animal source.





TWYMAN said:


> Mary
> 
> Ask your vet to take a stool sample for Tritrichomonas Foetus PCR Assay
> 
> ...





MaryA said:


> Luke aka Poppet still has poop problems too, but I can't get to the root cause of what else does it other than the rice. :arf: Origin gives him the poops, so does anything with jelly. :arf: In fact everything except boiled chicken, fish, turkey and raw minced beef seem to upset him. Both turn their nose up at raw other than than a bit of beef.
> 
> I am worried that I may not be doing the best for him nutritionally if I follow the boiled chicken, fish, turkey and raw minced beef route for a long period of time, although it stops the soft poop issues totally.
> 
> Are there any good no grain pate type foods at [email protected] he could trial, before I do a big order with Zooplus for the Porta 21 etc? If pate foods cause problems too, I'm at a loss how best to proceed.





dougal22 said:


> Has Poppet had his stools tested for bacteria/parasites yet? If so, did anything show up?
> 
> Sorry if you've mentioned this elsewhere, I haven't been on the forum regularly.





MaryA said:


> Our vet said that as the chicken etc leaves solid poops, it wouldn't be bacteria or parasites. However, I will get a second opinion if the pate food disagrees too.





hobbs2004 said:


> I agree completely - time to explore this more systematically with the vet. Get a detailed stool analysis done. If that comes back clear, then a proper elimination diet and allergy blood test might be in order.


*Lots of advice - again in relation to stool testing. *



MaryA said:


> Cloudygirl, I think I did it too quickly in the beginning, but have slowed down a lot now. One problem I encountered was that he is a total thief, stealing the other cat's food or anything he can get his paws on. Last week he got into the Orijen on top of the kitchen cabinet, and gave himself diarrhoea. It doesn't help. :eek6: I thought I had cracked it with the Classic, but it was not to be. Two days of it and soft poop was back, but I was also trying different flavours.
> 
> It really is difficult to resolve, but following advice here and elsewhere including the vet and things are much better. It is ironic that the recommendations for best foods on this forum are the very thing which seem troublesome for him. One trys to do one's best and it goes pearshaped.
> 
> It is amazing how many cats experience such problems. I shall keep in touch you off list with my progress, please let me know how you get on too, *then perhaps we can return to this thread for others with positive input from our own experience.*


*Is there really any need for sarcasm? There have been lots of posts advising to get stool tests, not just from me *



hobbs2004 said:


> While not 100% reliable a blood allergy test or some other food allergy test may now be in order I think at the very least. *And definitely a stool test to rule out any bacteria/parasites.*When was the last time you saw a vet regarding this? If your vet doesn't feel that s/he can help then perhaps get a referral or seek out another vet.
> 
> So true Dougal22. *This has been going on for nearly 3 months now* I believe during which time his nutrition (though a growing lad) hasn't been optimal. Does he get some vitamin and mineral supplement?
> 
> PS: Have you recently tried those Hills pouches again that he was fine on early in January?





gskinner123 said:


> Mary, I do agree with a few other members here. It may be that you're making up the meat you're feeding into a nutritionally complete diet with various supplementation, in which case ignore me completely  With a gastrointentinal problem dragging on, even intermittently, for a couple of months I think it vitally important to first attempt to rule out a parasitic cause. *I'm not sure that I could say that the likes of TF, giardia and coccidia are becoming more common in cats; rather I think it's a case of increasing awareness (on the part of owners, breeders and vets) of these as a possible root cause*.
> 
> Though chicken is usually the first thing tried to settle a cat's upset tummy, any muscle meat alone is severely nutritionally deficient. More than once I've received a stern telling off from my vet when I've given cooked chicken alone for more than just several days to kittens who have an upset tummy at some point through the weaning process. I really don't wish to be alarmist but I've seen, first hand, a young adult cat (who actually had no prior poor health, he was just a complete muscle meat junkie) who developed real problems - lack of balance and eventually collapse - as a result of his limited diet. Fortunately he made a speedy recovery once diagnosed with severe vitamin/mineral deficiency. I've also known cats with intermittent and/or persistent diarrhoea who did improve somewhat on a bland meat only diet who nonetheless were eventually diagnosed with intestinal parasites. *I think it's always worth checking for in the first instance.*


*Especially after this length of time. *



catsmum said:


> Mary A, Is there a reason why you dont want to get stool tests done?
> 
> *i was very worried about how expensive the tests would be when one of mine had the runs for 2 weeks but the costs of the tests werent half as bad as I thought they would be *and it did turn out that mine had a bacterial infection so it was good I got the tests done as my bland diet would never have worked.


*
I agree with this catsmum - the cost (although it was not an issue for me) isn't that much compared to getting a definite diagnosis *


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## MaryA (Oct 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> MaryA, am I correct in believing that so far none of the "commercial" foods have kept his stools firm?


In the main, yes. I'm not sure about the Smilla and shall order some today along with other pate foods from your list. A supplement is also a good idea. Thank you.  The Hills gets completely ignored and so am I for offering it to him. Needless to say the highly expensive Lily's is going down very well and the poop so far is solid. Typical. 

I am aware of growing frustration with me on this forum,  BUT my own vet doesn't seem in the slightest concerned about soft poops at all, as if it's quite normal for some cats. Maybe this is my cat's normal.:confused1: He said I only needed to go back if the poops are permanently runny as in diarrhoea, which isn't the case at all. Nevertheless, I have spoken on the phone with him three times now and the answer is the same. In fact, after the last call, I almost felt like I was being a nuisance and paranoid. I spoke to another vet in a different practice when he had his check up for castration and got much the same response. So maybe I am being paranoid after all. :frown: Please note, I have repeatedly asked for tests to no avail. What I don't need is to be yelled at here as if I haven't.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

MaryA said:


> In the main, yes. I'm not sure about the Smilla and shall order some today along with other pate foods from your list. A supplement is also a good idea. Thank you.  The Hills gets completely ignored and so am I for offering it to him. Needless to say the highly expensive Lily's is going down very well and the poop so far is solid. Typical.
> 
> I am aware of growing frustration with me on this forum,  BUT my own vet doesn't seem in the slightest concerned about soft poops at all, as if it's quite normal for some cats. Maybe this is my cat's normal.:confused1: He said I only needed to go back if the poops are permanently runny as in diarrhoea, which isn't the case at all. Nevertheless, I have spoken on the phone with him three times now and the answer is the same. In fact, after the last call, I almost felt like I was being a nuisance and paranoid. I spoke to another vet in a different practice when he had his check up for castration and got much the same response. So maybe I am being paranoid after all. :frown: Please note, I have repeatedly asked for tests to no avail. What I don't need is to be yelled at here as if I haven't.


I dont see anyone yelling at you redarding stool tests,what I do see is a lot of experienced people giving you the same advice,get the tests done to rule this out.No amount of diet changes ,supplements or whatever is going to make a difference if there is a parasitic or bacterial problem.You pay the vet bill you ask for tests ,I can see no reason for a vet to refuse.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

dont know how far you live from me but once again mine arent eating the flippin simalla have a 6cans un openned sittin g in the cupboard if anyone wants em!!!!


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

MaryA said:


> I have repeatedly asked for tests to no avail. What I don't need is to be yelled at here as if I haven't.


Who's yelling? I just merely pointed out the consistent advice throughout the entire thread and I see others have recently reiterated this advice. No yelling 

If I were repeatedly asking for tests from my vet and he/she refused, then I would go elsewhere. Simple


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