# British Shorthair Doesn't Have Chubby Cheeks & VERY SMALL - Normal?



## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

My british shorthair is 3 months old.

Still very small and doesn't have the rounded face or chubby cheeks.

Will they develop? Is this normal?




















































I'm obviously aware every cat will look different based on genes etc...

But just wanted to be sure as most other BSH cats are much bigger and have fuller face even before 3 months.

Any advice would be great. If normal, then thanks!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Is this kitten registered? Boy or girl? Are you sure of it's age? I'm also a bit concerned as it looks like it has some discharge from it's eyes.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

The discharge I have been told can be quite common. I try to wipe it off and he also cleans it off. The kitten is a boy, I have documentation which states he is 3 months old as of now. Vet report came back perfect. Came from a GCCF breeder


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

With a registration card? If you aren't sure what those look like, there is an example in one of the stickies:

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/pedigree-papers.454267/


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

I'm afraid I do not have that, no


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> I'm afraid I do not have that, no


Have they sent you a registration number for him? Will start '108' and be 7 digits long. I suspect cards are a problem at present due to COVID.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

I'm going to assume the cat is not registered then. Nothing was ever said about registering the cat. They have simply informed me they are registered Breeders with GCCF and hold their own prefix.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> I'm going to assume the cat is not registered then. Nothing was ever said about registering the cat. They have simply informed me they are registered Breeders with GCCF and hold their own prefix.


If he is unregistered and they have their own prefix they have acted very badly. If a kitten is sold unregistered it should go with the paperwork for the new owner to register it.

Actually I wonder if they really are breeders with their own prefix or not, or are trying it on to inflate the price they are getting for a kitten.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

I understand. I should have realised and done more research previously.
At this stage, I just want to know if he looks OK and will mature into a BSH looking cat, or is something not right here.


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## MaineCoonCats0 (Feb 29, 2020)

He looks very small for 3 months. And if that breeder has a prefix ask for it as you can look at the list of breeders on the gccf website. This is what my British Shorthair kitten looks like (she’s 4 months now the photo was taken a few weeks ago)


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

My mixed-breed semi-feral kittens are 10 weeks old and honestly look bigger (and they're female)... Just personal anecdote though, I don't have much cat experience yet. Also, I'd be worried about the eye discharge, to be honest...

(Are all those photos from the same age?)


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

This kitten doesn't look any older than 2 months at the most, and as others have said it's best to get a vet to check it over. It looks very thin and even though eye discharges can be common in BSH, this kitten looks under the weather to me.


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## MaineCoonCats0 (Feb 29, 2020)

britishbritish said:


> I understand. I should have realised and done more research previously.
> At this stage, I just want to know if he looks OK and will mature into a BSH looking cat, or is something not right here.


What is his diet and what did the breeder feed him? Did his parents look like full British shorthairs?


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## LeArthur (Dec 20, 2016)

@britishbritish - How much does your little one weigh? Here's what my BSH boy weighed throughout his first year.










He's about 5kg now and even that is on the smaller side for BSH's I believe. His breeder said all his relatives weighed about that so it was expected. Did your boys parents have a round face? Did his siblings look a similar size?

Have you googled the prefix? Something should come up even if they don't have their own website.

I must say his eyes do look very weepy, even by what I've known with my boy. Usually eye discharge is a bit like the sleep we get in our eyes, around the eyes never looks wet. It would be best to contact a vet to have them take a look at him. Either in the flesh or through photos.

What is his name? I'm sure he'll grow up to be a handsome chap!


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

He is just over 3 months. I would of thought he'd be a touch bigger by now and feel fuller.

I just weighed him and he's 545 grams

His parents did look exactly like full british shorthairs. Maybe not AS CHUBBY or ROUND as others, so I can understand but certainly did have all the features. 

I will get a vets appointment


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> He is just over 3 months. I would of thought he'd be a touch bigger by now and feel fuller.
> 
> I just weighed him and he's 545 grams
> 
> ...


I doubt he is 3 months. My Orientals are almost twice that at 3 months, and they are a finer built breed. I'm sorry but I think you've been scammed. Yes, vets appointment to check generally, and I imagine he should be wormed.


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## LeArthur (Dec 20, 2016)

britishbritish said:


> He is just over 3 months. I would of thought he'd be a touch bigger by now and feel fuller.
> 
> I just weighed him and he's 545 grams
> 
> ...


That's about half of what he should be, so something definitely isn't right.

Do you have solid proof that he's 3 months old?


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

He is lovely, and I'm sure you'll love him all the same regardless of his face shape etc, but it does sound like you have been deceived regarding his age and perhaps other things too. Hope the vet appointment goes well.

(Edit: Can cats have premature babies that are smaller and weigh less than they should, like humans?)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lea247 said:


> That's about half of what he should be, so something definitely isn't right.
> 
> Do you have solid proof that he's 3 months old?


I don't think they have solid proof of anything beyond owning a very small kitten.


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## teddylion (Oct 16, 2019)

Looking at the weight chart above (if I'm reading this correctly) lea247's kitten was over one kilo at only two months so he's much younger even than that, probably more like six weeks. Poor wee thing.

If it were me I would send an email asking for their registration number and let them squirm - because they almost certainly don't have one.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

I attach here some of the vet documents I have, if you are interested. Blocked some text for privacy reasons, for now.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

teddylion said:


> Looking at the weight chart above (if I'm reading this correctly) lea247's kitten was over one kilo at only two months so he's much younger even than that, probably more like six weeks. Poor wee thing.
> 
> If it were me I would send an email asking for their registration number and let them squirm - because they almost certainly don't have one.


with GCCF, it's a registered cat or kitten that has a registration number. Most but not all breeders have a prefix.


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## teddylion (Oct 16, 2019)

Can she look them up on the website by surname?

490g at three months would be very unusual; I'm surprised the vet didn't query this.

https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/a-few-questions-british-shorthair.353896/

A similar thread here about the chubby cheeks. I seem to remember BSH males develop them more when the sex hormones kick off.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> I attach here some of the vet documents I have, if you are interested. Blocked some text for privacy reasons, for now.


I'm frankly astonished they would vaccinate such a tiny kitten.

His weight there on the 16th is 490g, that was 2 weeks ago, he is 545g now, I make that as growing 4g per day, which is shockingly slow. Do take the documents you have when you go to your vet.

Kittens more than a few days premature rarely survive. Those that do would usually appear completely normal at 3 months.

Is he keen to eat? I wonder if he is barely weaned. I've had kittens that aren't eating properly at 7 weeks, and 490g is approximately the average weight of one of my kittens at 7 weeks. One of my girls never really started to eat until 9 weeks, her mother was happily letting her suckle.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

teddylion said:


> Can she look them up on the website by surname?
> 
> 490g at three months would be very unusual; I'm surprised the vet didn't query this.
> 
> ...


Not sure what website you mean. If the GCCF all there is is a couple of lists of prefixes, A-M and N-Z. I would be amazed if these people have their own website, or a Facebook presence.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

Yeah this is the weird thing, he EATS ALOT. Generally seems very happy too. 

There is a facebook presence and they are regularly posting on the main pets4homes site to sell. I wouldn't want to post any links for now 

I am very concerned though


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Can only echo what others have said that he's incredibly small and I'm shocked the vet didn't pick up on it.
Sounds like he's in a caring place now.
You can look up if their prefix is on the GCCF website and if it is you can put in a complaint.

One of my bsh female was small (the breeder said). Smallest of a litter of 5 to a first time mum and she was 1.27kg at exactly 13 weeks pictured.
The other was 1.43kg.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm sincerely sorry to be blunt but I think you are right to be concerned. 

He is shockingly small; I am a BSH breeder and my four week old kittens often weigh over 500g.

He does not look "right" to me and the eye discharge is not normal. I am truly taken aback at the fact that a vet has vaccinated him.


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## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

What a little sweetheart! He does look very young.... Flint was 8 weeks old when he came home (almost 13 years ago now!!), although he is a different breed he was tiny and his eyes were still baby colour - can you see the similarities?









I'd also be concerned about the eyes and surprised the vet was happy to vaccinate, he looks very tiny and frail. Could you ask for a second opinion perhaps?


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## Dr.A (Jun 6, 2020)

britishbritish said:


> He is just over 3 months. I would of thought he'd be a touch bigger by now and feel fuller.
> 
> I just weighed him and he's 545 grams
> 
> ...


Not BSH but my pair were that weight at the 6 week mark. Their now 3 months and much bigger


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

That is a very ill looking kitten,I'm not sure why you'd take him home looking that way.

No responsible breeder would allow a kitten to leave in such poor condition. While a smaller kitten can happen, they would not be adopted out ill and scrawny.


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## Jen8971 (May 2, 2020)

Poor wee thing, I hope he will be ok. Ash is 20 days older than your kitten and 3 weeks ago he weighed 1450g and I thought he was on the small side. He isn't BSH but 900g difference is a lot! When we got him at 8 weeks old (which is too young, we have since learned) he was 850g and again, we thought he was on the smaller side.


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

I would be very concerned too, at 11 weeks old my rescue moggy (CP) weighed 1.1kg and whilst a nice size and a healthy kitten he is not a huge cat and certainly not the size and build of a BSH. he weighed about the same as Jen's cat at 3 months too. Are you absolutely sure the paperwork is genuine? if it is I would have serious concerns about the vet practice, never mind a BSH kitten weighing so little at that age. Any vet that would not be concerned about a BSh kitten being so tiny at 3 months old and willing to vaccinate it needs reporting! He doesn't actually look like a BSH either, I'd say at best a cross or else from too extremely poor examples of the breed. I am sorry but I have to agree with the others that you have been taken for a ride. I do hope he will be OK, at least he is now with someone who cares and will do their best for him.


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

Looking back at the photos too his tummy looks very indicative of worms and especially as you say he eats loads I would agree with OrientalSlave and say he definitely needs worming as well


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## beclou80 (Apr 8, 2020)

Bless him I would say he also seems about 5-6 weeks old as very small these r my babies at 11 weeks all over 1kg I’m surprised the vet done vaccinations at that weight I’m sure you can help him out though and he soon me putting on weight has he been wormed x


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

Thanks for the responses.
I have just got back from the vet. The vet claims the kitten is only 6 weeks old. Overall very healthy and normal.
But said no way 3 months and will not have had those injections as indicated by the seller.

Pretty pissed about it. More for the kitten, why would they give me a month old kitten!


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Oh my goodness  That's awful of the seller! Glad he has you to look after him, and at least you know how old he is now and what care you need to give him. Poor thing.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> <snip>
> why would they give me a month old kitten!


Money. and you have fraudulent, possibly fake vet paperwork.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Just a thought, have you or the vet checked the kitten is definitely male, since you've already been given so much false information?


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Greed pure and simple.
I have no idea what you paid but highly likely it's close to or even more than a healthy fully vaccinated, registered 13 week old.

I suspect they don't really have a prefix but do look if they're on the list and if they are you can report them to gccf, I do think you have to pay a small fee but worth it if it hinders them. 
https://www.gccfcats.org/Breeding-Information/Registered-Prefixes

Did the vet give him worming treatment? As probably wasn't done by the 'breeder'.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

I am always amazed of how people can be to Heartless to other Humans an Animals.
Your Kitten is lovely and lucky for him he has landed with someone who will take great care of him.
With the right food and vaccinations he will grow into a lovely boy. He might not be a British and you are out of pocket but the love and Joy he will bring you over the years will be worth it.
I Would report this breeder.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

I hope the vet addressed that round belly and sick eyes. That baby doesn't look healthy or happy at all. . Poor wee mite. Disgraceful these scammers, what they do to people's lives.


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## beclou80 (Apr 8, 2020)

Omg that is Alful Also the blue eyes is also a give away as they start to change at about 8 weeks and his still look blue I can’t believe people have told u he has had injections and putting him further at risk as u would be unaware he isn’t vaccinated glad he has someone now who can look after him properly xxx


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## kelzcats (Aug 1, 2011)

Although Gccf office is not working normally, they would have sent an email to the breeder a couple of days after registering the kittens, with paper copies of the registration cards to be printed of for new owners, hard copies sent three to four weeks after registration.
Worm the kitten with panacur for three days consecutive.
I'm a Bsh breeder and would have said the kitten is about 5 weeks old at that weight, all my kittens are well over 1kg at 12 weeks.

The eyes look infected they look very different to the sometimes common Bsh tear staining.


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## LeArthur (Dec 20, 2016)

britishbritish said:


> I attach here some of the vet documents I have, if you are interested. Blocked some text for privacy reasons, for now.


Are there any vet details listed on here? If there are any sure they would like to know what's going on!

You'd need to get some kitten replacement milk in, I'm sure someone can advise on where to get some and which brands. It's different to the cat milk you can get from the shops.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

lea247 said:


> Are there any vet details listed on here? If there are any sure they would like to know what's going on!
> 
> You'd need to get some kitten replacement milk in, I'm sure someone can advise on where to get some and which brands. It's different to the cat milk you can get from the shops.


I have been reading this but havnt commented but as @lea247 has said if vet details are on the documents then they should be informed .


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

buffie said:


> I have been reading this but havnt commented but as @lea247 has said if vet details are on the documents then they should be informed .


If the paperwork from the vet is genuine there's a good case for complaint to the RCVS about such a tiny kitten being vaccinated.


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## teddylion (Oct 16, 2019)

Disgraceful and fraudulent. I'm afraid I would be posting a very strong message on their Facebook!


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

I do have the vet details yes.
I have tried to contact them to verify the documentation is legit, but cannot get through. It's one of the main chains of vets.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> I do have the vet details yes.
> I have tried to contact them to verify the documentation is legit, but cannot get through. It's one of the main chains of vets.


Email photos, obviously without the blocked out bits in the images you posted here. They would need to see them to know anyway, so they can see if they recognise the signature.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Poor little chap! There is definitly something very amiss here. The paperwork is either false or perhaps even more worryingly, genuine and the vet actually vaccinated a tiny, obviously not well grown kitten. 

The kittens eyes still look quite bluish in the photos so your own vets thought that he was just 6 weeks old seems pretty accurate. 

The failure to gain weight despite eating well is another major concern. He looks like he needs a good worming too.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

Here is a video of him now.

Vet supplied panacur wormer and Lubrithal ophthalmic gel for the eyes


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

He has a terrific purr!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Aww, what a cute little baby and such a loud purr!!  He looks a lot better now than in your previous photos, which is a relief. And does look more like a 6 week old kitten now. Before he looked younger.

As well as reporting the breeder to the GCCF (if the breeder's cats genuinely are registered) you can also report the breeder to the RSPCA for selling kittens too young. And to Trading Standards for selling a kitten whose age they have falsely represented. 

I would go the whole hog if I were you. Such unscrupulous, selfish, uncaring breeders as this one need a wake-up call.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Also the place where they listed the kittens (pets4homes? Or was that someone else?). Could look into reporting them to their local council as well. I know dog breeders are supposed to register with them, no idea about cat breeders.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Lucy2020 said:


> Also the place where they listed the kittens (pets4homes? Or was that someone else?). Could look into reporting them to their local council as well. I know dog breeders are supposed to register with them, no idea about cat breeders.


If you mean report them to pets4homes then yes. I'd also be inclined to log an anonymous report to HMRC. https://www.gov.uk/report-an-unregistered-trader-or-business


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

The eyes do seem to be changing colour, which the seller has indicated wouldn't happen if the kitten was so young.

Is this right or wrong?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> The eyes do seem to be changing colour, which the seller has indicated wouldn't happen if the kitten was so young.
> 
> Is this right or wrong?


Kittens eyes change colour from blue starting at about 6 weeks, which ties in with the age the vet gave him. I guess the seller is disputing his age. If they are, what's their explanation for him being about 1/3 the weight he should be?


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

Fair enough. Yeah just that the parents are not huge cats, thats why he's still small. :Shifty


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Just seen this thread, poor little mite, glad he is safe and happy with you now. That purr is terrific, he has a great little motor on him


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

What is the likelyhood he will fill out and look like a legit british shorthair? I purchased this kitten based on the fact I wanted a british shorthair cat that had the rounded features and rather chubby look. Right now we have a skinny anorexic looking kitten, that people are suggesting looks ill and might not even be a british shorthair :Rage


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> What is the likelyhood he will fill out and look like a legit british shorthair? I purchased this kitten based on the fact I wanted a british shorthair cat that had the rounded features and rather chubby look. Right now we have a skinny anorexic looking kitten, that people are suggesting looks ill and might not even be a british shorthair :Rage


He's not registered, as far as I know you don't even have a pedigree, so whatever he ends up looking like he's not a BSH in my book. Hopefully he will grow and fill out with time, but I have no idea what he will end up looking like other than blue. And you are being spun a load of lies by the people you brought him from. I'm not clear, have you sent photos of the vet paperwork to the vets that allegedly issued them? And have they confirmed one of their vets signed them?


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

By all means, report the breeder, get them into trouble and maybe get your money back, but remember you've had this kitten for a few weeks and he loves you (that purring!). When I decided to get kittens I wanted a ginger tom-cat, or a tabby, but I have two female black and white ones. Still love them to bits, and they're gorgeous anyway. With your help he'll get bigger and plumper, and any health issues he does have will probably soon be sorted out.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

I have been in touch with the vet's head office as the line kept going dead when I was trying to contact the actual vet practice.

They said, all they can do is speak to the vet practice to confirm the details and they would have to go back to the original seller to let them know they are releasing information to me and the new vet. All very weird. Basically data protection, I can't get any direct answers


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Lucy2020 said:


> By all means, report the breeder, get them into trouble and maybe get your money back, but remember you've had this kitten for a few weeks and he loves you (that purring!). When I decided to get kittens I wanted a ginger tom-cat, or a tabby, but I have two female black and white ones. Still love them to bits, and they're gorgeous anyway. With your help he'll get bigger and plumper, and any health issues he does have will probably soon be sorted out.


I'm pretty sure they only just brought this tiny baby home. And I didn't get the impression they were wanting to give him back. Just wanted to know if they've been scammed, which they have been.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

lorilu said:


> I'm pretty sure they only just brought this tiny baby home. And I didn't get the impression they were wanting to give him back. Just wanted to know if they've been scammed, which they have been.


Two weeks, I'm sure they said somewhere. And I'm not trying to have a go, I'm just saying not to lose sight of the fact they have a lovely kitten 'cause they sounded quite angry.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Lucy2020 said:


> Two weeks, I'm sure they said somewhere. And I'm not trying to have a go, I'm just saying not to lose sight of the fact they have a lovely kitten 'cause they sounded quite angry.


Of course they are angry. They were sold a sickly tiny baby far too young to leave her mother as a 3 month old healthy pedigree kitten. Their vet aged this kitten at 6 weeks today. If they've had her for 2 weeks she would have only been 4 weeks old at time of sale. I don't remember reading that though, but I could have easily missed it of course. I understood them to have only just brought her home yesterday.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

lorilu said:


> Of course they are angry. They were sold a sickly tiny baby far too young to leave her mother as a 3 month old healthy pedigree kitten. Their vet aged this kitten at 6 weeks today. If they've had her for 2 weeks she would have only been 4 weeks old at time of sale. I don't remember reading that though, but I could have easily missed it of course. I understood them to have only just brought her home yesterday.


If you have a read a bit further back in the thread you should see the posts I mean about how long they've had him.

I just kind of got the impression that maybe they don't like the kitten so much anymore, but clearly I read things wrong and shouldn't have said anything. Sorry.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> I have been in touch with the vet's head office as the line kept going dead when I was trying to contact the actual vet practice.
> 
> They said, all they can do is speak to the vet practice to confirm the details and they would have to go back to the original seller to let them know they are releasing information to me and the new vet. All very weird. Basically data protection, I can't get any direct answers


All you need is confirmation their vet signed the card, or not. Then you ask why they vaccinated a 490g kitten.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

At what weight should the cat be, for the first set of injections?


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

His eyes do not look at all blue to me. On my screen they are very green which would not suggest to me he is 5-6 weeks old.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

britishbritish said:


> At what weight should the cat be, for the first set of injections?


A kitten must be 9 weeks old before they have their first injection. Most kittens are knocking on the door of 1kg at that age.


britishbritish said:


> What is the likelyhood he will fill out and look like a legit british shorthair? I purchased this kitten based on the fact I wanted a british shorthair cat that had the rounded features and rather chubby look.


Pretty slim I'd say. He'll hopefully turn into a nice kitten and a beautiful cat but I'm really not sure he'll attain the look of the BSH, especially if he is a cross or indeed has no BSH in his background.


britishbritish said:


> They said, all they can do is speak to the vet practice to confirm the details and they would have to go back to the original seller to let them know they are releasing information to me and the new vet. All very weird. Basically data protection, I can't get any direct answers


It is indeed due to data protection. A vet cannot divulge a clients information even to a person who has since acquired the animal without the client's permission.


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## BarneyBobCat (Feb 22, 2019)

The kitten looks so much better on the video although the tummy looks inflated which could be worms. But no eye gunk which is good. You may have wanted a specific breed but I have no doubt you will fall in love with this little kitty regardless


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## Kittynanna (Feb 15, 2015)

I am sorry you appear to have been scammed, but your kitten is a little sweetheart and I am sure you must love him already.

Please just love him and put it down to a bad experience that something gorgeous has come out of.

He is so sweet.....enjoy him.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

If you want a specific breed and don't feel this one will fulfil your needs then return him and get your money back- though I doubt the breeder will cooperate.
Research a reputable registered breeder and get a healthy kitten instead.

Otherwise accept you willingly took on a small, sick looking kitten with no papers and love him for what he is.


Kittens are generally vaccinated at 8-12 weeks for the first vaccine, but if one is smaller most will hold off another week.


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## Annealise (Nov 29, 2015)

Awh He looks so tiny. Shocked and sad to hear you’ve found out he is 6 weeks old. Have you given him kitten milk? With care from you I’m sure he will grow into a chubby cheeked cat in time though.

So annoying if you haven’t been sold what you wanted by unscrupulous people

Did you happen to view the mother? 

Any luck with the breeders?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> A kitten must be 9 weeks old before they have their first injection. Most kittens are knocking on the door of 1kg at that age.
> 
> Pretty slim I'd say. He'll hopefully turn into a nice kitten and a beautiful cat but I'm really not sure he'll attain the look of the BSH, especially if he is a cross or indeed has no BSH in his background.
> 
> It is indeed due to data protection. A vet cannot divulge a clients information even to a person who has since acquired the animal without the client's permission.


She has the vaccination card & vet printout. All the vet has to do is confirm the signature is one of their vets and then explain why it looks like they vaccinated a kitten that was under 500g. Of course to do that they need to see unredacted versions of the photos we have seen.

They don't have reveal any new information, just yes or no.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

The vet are claiming they have the records, but yes they need to contact the previous owner to confirm they allow release of records or even to discuss anything


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

britishbritish said:


> The vet are claiming they have the records, but yes they need to contact the previous owner to confirm they allow release of records or even to discuss anything


So what happens if the breeders refuse consent??


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

OrientalSlave said:


> All you need is confirmation their vet signed the card, or not. Then you ask why they vaccinated a 490g kitten.


I imagine they didn't.

I'd guess that set of information does not relate to this kitten.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

MilleD said:


> I imagine they didn't.
> 
> I'd guess that set of information does not relate to this kitten.


That was my first thought but it does say 0.49 kg on the Vet records.. it's all very strange


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

MilleD said:


> I imagine they didn't.
> 
> I'd guess that set of information does not relate to this kitten.


That is my guess too. . Though as OR says the given weight is a bit strange!


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

chillminx said:


> That is my guess too. . Though as OR says the given weight is a bit strange!


So it does.

What's the reference to 1st July at the bottom.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

MilleD said:


> So it does.
> 
> What's the reference to 1st July at the bottom.


Perhaps the date the 2nd vaccination was due?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

chillminx said:


> Perhaps the date the 2nd vaccination was due?


No, it's only 2 weeks after the first one.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Have you noticed that this alleged 3 month old kitten has only had one vaccination, and it was 11 weeks old when it had that jab? One wonders just how tiny the kitten was at 9 weeks old ... _IF_ indeed it really is anywhere near that age.


MilleD said:


> What's the reference to 1st July at the bottom.


It looks like a batch code and expiry date, but of what I'm not sure.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

The batch numbers and expiry date on the vet record print out and vaccination card do not match.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

lillytheunicorn said:


> The batch numbers and expiry date on the vet record print out and vaccination card do not match.


They do, but the codes and dates in the lower box seem to relate to something else.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> Have you noticed that this alleged 3 month old kitten has only had one vaccination, and it was 11 weeks old when it had that jab? One wonders just how tiny the kitten was at 9 weeks old ... _IF_ indeed it really is anywhere near that age.
> 
> It looks like a batch code and expiry date, but of what I'm not sure.


I don't think the kitten is anywhere near that age.

The thing that looks like a batch code is in the 'invoice' section so might be the code for the cost of the vaccination and the date that is effective until.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> The vet are claiming they have the records, but yes they need to contact the previous owner to confirm they allow release of records or even to discuss anything


I don't know exactly what question you asked them, but the first question surely is 'Is this the signature of one of your vets on this vaccination card'? If you are asking for the release of this kitten's full vet history that's another matter, but confirmation of the signature? You already have the vaccination card and an invoice, what more details do they think you want? Or don't they know what you already have?


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Just seen this thread. So sorry that you have been scammed OP. At least the kitten has someone who will take care of it properly now.

my first thoughts on the vaccination card/history is that are these for the same cat? The vet signature is only on the card so it could be that a 3 month old kitten (not yours)was taken in for their vaccinations and that is what the breeder has given you? They could have made up the patient history on their own computer where they inputted the weight? Might be a bit far fetched but it would explain why it seems the vets have vaccinated such a tiny kitten??


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Teddy-dog said:


> They could have made up the patient history on their own computer where they inputted the weight? Might be a bit far fetched but it would explain why it seems the vets have vaccinated such a tiny kitten??


This has happened before. I heard about a breeder selling underage puppies with faked vaccination cards a couple of years ago. Watchdog did a report on her.
Then just last month a kitten woman was found selling kittens from a flat with fake vaccinations (stickers and all!!!) and fake family trees.
These won't be the only people scamming innocent buyers this way.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Tigermoon said:


> This has happened before. I heard about a breeder selling underage puppies with faked vaccination cards a couple of years ago. Watchdog did a report on her.
> Then just last month a kitten woman was found selling kittens from a flat with fake vaccinations (stickers and all!!!) and fake family trees.
> These won't be the only people scamming innocent buyers this way.


The lengths some will go!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Tigermoon said:


> This has happened before. I heard about a breeder selling underage puppies with faked vaccination cards a couple of years ago. Watchdog did a report on her.
> Then just last month a kitten woman was found selling kittens from a flat with fake vaccinations (stickers and all!!!) and fake family trees.
> These won't be the only people scamming innocent buyers this way.


Can you remember how the stickers where faked, and if it was obvious?


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## Annealise (Nov 29, 2015)

@OrientalSlave Didn't the vet assess it as being only 6 weeks old? This is all very sad. I cannot believe the breeder forged documentation and passed off a tiny kitten off parted from its mother, as older..


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

Hi guys, just thought I would update you on the situation.

I have the disappointing news to report that the kitten has gone back to the original seller/breeder.

After sending footage and images to the seller, they suggested something wasn't right with him as they were still saying he definately was 3 months. They suggested he probably would be better off back with them and the mother, which I agreed.

He barely grew, and was not really active like a kitten usually is. I've had quite a few cats growing up, and usually they are pretty active, running around, jumping and climbing on things, causing trouble here and there. This kitten did not jump or climb once in the couple of weeks I had him, which I thought was strange. In the past week he went more and more into his shell as if he was kind of scared. No scratching, no biting, nothing. Completely mellow, chilled out or sitting scared. 

Obviously this wasn't the end result I wanted, but she offered to take him back without me saying anything. So she obviously thought something was up with him or she knows more than we do.

Thanks everyone for your advice and help along the way.

I don't want to say the vendor is lying or it's scam. It is what it is. Maybe it was 3 months, just a very slow developer and may have an underlying illness.

When I phoned the original vets, they did confirm they did the injections on "this kitten" but would not reveal anymore details


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Tigermoon said:


> Have you noticed that this alleged 3 month old kitten has only had one vaccination, and it was 11 weeks old when it had that jab? One wonders just how tiny the kitten was at 9 weeks old ... _IF_ indeed it really is anywhere near that age.
> 
> It looks like a batch code and expiry date, but of what I'm not sure.


Kitten was aged at 6 weeks by vet yesterday (or it might have been the day before)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Annealise said:


> @OrientalSlave Didn't the vet assess it as being only 6 weeks old? This is all very sad. I cannot believe the breeder forged documentation and passed off a tiny kitten off parted from its mother, as older..


The owners vet did, and I can believe they forged the documentation. That's why I think the only initial question to ask the vet it allegedly came from is 'is this genuine'. Not asking for more details about the 'breeder', that runs into data protection issues, but I would have thought they should be very concerned if either someone is faking paperwork from them, or one of their vets has actually vaccinated a 490g kitten. Interestingly the style of one of the numbers in the handwriting was continental.


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## LeArthur (Dec 20, 2016)

britishbritish said:


> Hi guys, just thought I would update you on the situation.
> 
> I have the disappointing news to report that the kitten has gone back to the original seller/breeder.
> 
> ...


Thank you for updating us.

Whether a scam or not, returning the kitten was definitely the best thing you could have done.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Astonished they even let him go in the first place, and personally I'd be wanting to know why the vets thought it was appropriate to vaccinate a kitten of that weight. Sadly I doubt this kitten has a bright future.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

We will hope this kitten will now have some time with his mother, for a number of months.

I'm disappointed with the whole situation, more so for the kitten of course, as I want the best for him.

Myself, I obviously waited 3-4 months to get him, so that is disappointing on my end, but really just want the best for that little soldier.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

OrientalSlave said:


> Astonished they even let him go in the first place, and personally I'd be wanting to know why they thought it was appropriate to vaccinate a kitten of that weight. Sadly I doubt this kitten has a bright future.


My thoughts exactly.

OP you did all you could for this little guy it's just unfortunate the breeder didn't have his welfare in mind.

If you decide you want another kitten there is no shortage of good bsh breeders so do some reading on what to look for, there are some good threads on the topic on here.
Also know what health tests should have been carried out.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Tigermoon said:


> This has happened before. I heard about a breeder selling underage puppies with faked vaccination cards a couple of years ago. Watchdog did a report on her.
> Then just last month a kitten woman was found selling kittens from a flat with fake vaccinations (stickers and all!!!) and fake family trees.
> These won't be the only people scamming innocent buyers this way.


Oh wow how sad  terrible people can get away with these things


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

OrientalSlave said:


> Astonished they even let him go in the first place, and personally I'd be wanting to know why the vets thought it was appropriate to vaccinate a kitten of that weight. Sadly I doubt this kitten has a bright future.


It's a horrible thought isn't it? Poor baby


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Teddy-dog said:


> Oh wow how sad  terrible people can get away with these things


As long as people are willing to buy 'cheap' kittens from BYBs this sort of thing will continue, so I can't see it going away.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

MilleD said:


> It's a horrible thought isn't it? Poor baby


I don't think he would have had a bright future regardless of if he went back or not. If he genuinely is 3 months old something is seriously wrong.


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## Annealise (Nov 29, 2015)

I’m surprised the people took the kitten back considering the conditions under which they sold him! 
Returning him was the best thing to do if mother and kitten are still able to bond. I’d hate for her to reject it.

There are official sites to find a BSH breeder in your area. I hope you find what you are looking for.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

Yes, the whole situation is very unfortunate. More likely to be 2 months old

This kitten was around the £1,000 mark. I'm not sure what the going rate it for BSH, but when I was originally looking, that seemed to be the average figure

Maybe I should be looking at double that. More research needed for the future I guess.

If anyone has official sites/links to top breeders, feel free to send them over.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

britishbritish said:


> This kitten was around the £1,000 mark.


Mine were £1,000 for two (would have been £595 each), two years ago. 
Came fully vaccinated, registered non active, show champions in the pedigrees (not so important for a pet but since you really want 'the look'), parents health tested.
Granted one of them is more unusual less popular colour.
You would likely be looking at more for the very popular blue but I would think more like £850 or less.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

From a quick search 
https://britishshorthaircatclub.co.uk/breeders.html
They could likely point you to a more local breeder if they're too far.
Even then you preferably want to see the environment they're brought up in, difficult in the current circumstances.
Many clubs have disclaimers that they haven't done inspections or anything so still down to you to ask questions etc.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> Yes, the whole situation is very unfortunate. More likely to be 2 months old
> 
> This kitten was around the £1,000 mark. I'm not sure what the going rate it for BSH, but when I was originally looking, that seemed to be the average figure
> 
> ...


Wow!!!! That is now the going price for a *fully registered pedigree.* Prices vary a bit across the country, it can be worth travelling from London as kittens cost more. And at present prices have been inflated as for some reason lockdown has lead to a surge in demand.


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

I am so sorry it has ended like this but perhaps it is for the best. Just as an example this was a recent advert by someone I know.

https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/2722744-british-shorthair-blue-kittens-spennymoor.html


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

carolmanycats said:


> I am so sorry it has ended like this but perhaps it is for the best. Just as an example this was a recent advert by someone I know.
> 
> https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/2722744-british-shorthair-blue-kittens-spennymoor.html


I would add that at the time of the advert it wasn't clear of they would be blue or blue tabbies die to previous ones having looked spotty tabby at that age but ending up blue, in the event these were all blue tabbies.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Poor babe I hope he is ok. I wonder if the vet is a family member/ friend or such of the seller. Maybe a scam going that should be investigated further. Could the vaccine so early caused complications for him? His lack of activity and such?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

carolmanycats said:


> I am so sorry it has ended like this but perhaps it is for the best. Just as an example this was a recent advert by someone I know.
> 
> https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/2722744-british-shorthair-blue-kittens-spennymoor.html


A very well-known breeder in the north and probably beyond.


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

OrientalSlave said:


> A very well-known breeder in the north and probably beyond.


indeed and one who doe sit correctly and doesn't charge exorbitant prices either from what little I know of BSH prices


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

I was astonished when looking on Pets4homes at the prices. Unregistered, unvaccinated Norwegian Forest cat kittens being sold at 8 weeks old were £100 more than I charge for mine, that are vaccinated, microchipped, neutered and registered. The registered kittens from good breeders were all cheaper than the unregistered kittens??


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

Thanks again everyone for all your help.

I just noticed the original seller has now put the same kitten up for sale and stated it's 8 weeks old.

Maybe just because it's so small or maybe because it really is 8 weeks old ompus


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

britishbritish said:


> Thanks again everyone for all your help.
> 
> I just noticed the original seller has now put the same kitten up for sale and stated it's 8 weeks old.
> 
> Maybe just because it's so small or maybe because it really is 8 weeks old ompus


Not in the least surprised. We already know the type they are. Poor wee baby. And I feel sorry for the next person who buys her and has to cope with all her illness.

And as your vet said, she is most likely to be 6 weeks old. Well maybe closer to 7 now. Disgusting people.


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

lorilu said:


> Not in the least surprised. We already know the type they are. Poor wee baby. And I feel sorry for the next person who buys her and has to cope with all her illness.


Indeed, I was wondering how soon they would do that :-( Poor, poor baby.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> Can you remember how the stickers where faked, and if it was obvious?


Not sure how they were created, but they looked absolutely genuine. Still, going by official the human documents that get forged, a vaccination sticker is probably childs play


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

britishbritish said:


> Thanks again everyone for all your help.
> 
> I just noticed the original seller has now put the same kitten up for sale and stated it's 8 weeks old.
> 
> Maybe just because it's so small or maybe because it really is 8 weeks old ompus


What a surprise. So much for having time with its mother. Report them to the listing site. (Or give us a link so we can do it)


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Lucy2020 said:


> What a surprise. So much for having time with its mother. Report them to the listing site. (Or give us a link so we can do it)


I agree @britishbritish please report them for selling a sick kitten and misrepresenting age.


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## Kittynanna (Feb 15, 2015)

I think they knew by your contact with vet and took kitten back to get you off their backs...poor little kitten, I hope it finds a lovely home and is well.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Kittynanna said:


> I think they knew by your contact with vet and took kitten back to get you off their backs...poor little kitten, I hope it finds a lovely home and is well.


My thoughts, exactly.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> A very well-known breeder in the north and probably beyond.





carolmanycats said:


> I am so sorry it has ended like this but perhaps it is for the best. Just as an example this was a recent advert by someone I know.
> 
> https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/2722744-british-shorthair-blue-kittens-spennymoor.html


A well known breeder advertising in pets4homes cant be right can it?
when we numpties are told that its one of the worse sites out there
if a well known breeder advertises on there how are we supposed to know right from wrong?


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## MaineCoonCats0 (Feb 29, 2020)

britishbritish said:


> Thanks again everyone for all your help.
> 
> I just noticed the original seller has now put the same kitten up for sale and stated it's 8 weeks old.
> 
> Maybe just because it's so small or maybe because it really is 8 weeks old ompus


Poor baby .
I hate how people do this. It's so cruel he should be kept with the breeder and his mum until he is in a good condition and ready for a new home. But many breeders like this one don't care they just want the money. So upsetting


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## Hammystar (Jun 19, 2019)

britishbritish said:


> Thanks again everyone for all your help.
> 
> I just noticed the original seller has now put the same kitten up for sale and stated it's 8 weeks old.


Where abouts is he based? If local to me I feel compelled to rescue him. Who know where he will end up...


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

mrs phas said:


> A well known breeder advertising in pets4homes cant be right can it?
> when we numpties are told that its one of the worse sites out there
> if a well known breeder advertises on there how are we supposed to know right from wrong?


Several genuine breeders do and have for years, it is probably the best known and most used homing site so they know they are reaching a wide audience. Sadly the site has become a magnet for the unscrupulous ones who outnumber the decent ones by a large margin.

As for how are we to know then the simple answer is do your homework, research the breed and what they should look like, research the recommendations and the guidelines for registered ones, the age they should be when they leave - a minimum of 13 weeks - , what health tests the parents should have had, what vaccinations etc they should have had, do they come with 4 or 5 weeks insurance (most genuine breeders will provide this), make sure they are registered - never mind if it's just for a pet, the registration should be provided as a matter of course, ask to see the pedigree (and make a note of some of the most recent prefixes as if in doubt you may be able to contact the breeder of a parent or grandparent to ensure that the pedigree is genuine), can you see the mother (some breeders have their own stud cats so you can see the father as well but many do not), check out breed clubs as they usually have a list of breeders who are genuine. Etc etc. If the kitten does not look like it should, if the kitten is going before 13 weeks, if the kitten is not registered, if it hasn't had all its vaccinations, if you cannot find the breeder anywhere on any breed club and if you ask in forums like this, on Facebook etc if anyone knows of the prefix or the breeder and you can get no reputable recommendations then walk away. But the best way of all - after you have done your research - is to get a list of breeders from a breed club and contact them direct rather than looking on such sites in the first place.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Hammystar said:


> Where abouts is he based? If local to me I feel compelled to rescue him. Who know where he will end up...


If you give them money sadly you're not rescuing. Just showing them that no matter what they will be able to sell sickly kittens and so do it all over again.


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## Hammystar (Jun 19, 2019)

Arny said:


> If you give them money sadly you're not rescuing. Just showing them that no matter what they will be able to sell sickly kittens and so do it all over again.


True. But someone will buy him not knowing what they are taking on and who know what will happen to him then...


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## Annealise (Nov 29, 2015)

@britishbritish ' This kitten was around the £1,000 mark. I'm not sure what the going rate it for BSH, but when I was originally looking, that seemed to be the average figure'

That seems exceedingly overpriced! I would say on average around £700. Prices vary depending of what part of the country they are in.I bought my BSH 18 months ago and he was £600 from a highly respected breeder in the Midlands. I would give you her details but she is no longer breeding now.

I cannot believe the breeder of your kitten has now advertised it immediately, it's 8 weeks old for gods sake! Please report these despicable people. I realise the kitten wasn't what you wanted but I personally would have kept the poor mite and gave it a good home. The thought of it being separated from its mother too young and now having to go from pillar to post is very upsetting.


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## jasperthecat (Aug 5, 2017)

You only have to ask what is a genuine BSH kitten worth these days?...in fact what is any recognised and sought after pedigree breed is worth and you can guarantee that for every legitimate registered breeder adhering to all of the rules and protocols, there are probably five or even ten times as many people breeding and selling them who are not following good protocols but who are making a handsome profit from their endeavours, In fact I suspect they're making far more profit than legitimate ethical breeders ever will, simply because the legitimate and ethical breeder follows the rules and protocols and doesn't try to cut corners in order to wring every last penny of profit out of the litters they breed.

If I was going to spend getting on for £1000.00 on a kitten I would be extremely careful to whom I handed my money and I'd make sure I'd done a full background check as far as possible on the breeder before ever parting with my money.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

mrs phas said:


> A well known breeder advertising in pets4homes cant be right can it?
> when we numpties are told that its one of the worse sites out there
> if a well known breeder advertises on there how are we supposed to know right from wrong?


You are not told it's one of the worse sites, at least not by me.

I've not seen the original advert for this kitten but the new one says it won't be registered. Red flag.

It says it's vaccines are fully up to date. On an 8 week old kitten? Red flag.

Message only if ready to place deposit. Unfortunately at present covid means prospective buyers can't visit breeders. This makes it far easier for bybs to flourish, but it's a red flag as effectively it's saying she is only interested in your money. She doesn't want to speak to you, she won't use email. All red flag imho.

Compare to the kresta as that carolmanycats posted. Chalk & cheese.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Poor little thing; I wonder how many homes he will end up having in the first few months of his life. Is he going to get used to being with his mother again then sold?


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

I am not sure @Calvine the little fellow is even with his mother. We don't know for sure, he could be anywhere the sellers are holding kittens.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Summercat said:


> I am not sure @Calvine the little fellow is even with his mother. We don't know for sure, he could be anywhere the sellers are holding kittens.


 Anybody's guess, that's true.


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

Can we assume that sellers who are registered with the GCCF & have a prefix, and can provide proof of those 2 things, are actually legit?

For example, I'll just pick this seller out :

Listing - https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/2723737-gorgeous-kittens-northolt.html

Sellers site - https://maggiebrits.co.uk/kittens/

It would be great to hear feedback on this example

Any red flags, or does this look legit

Thanks again


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

What is a 'legit' breeder? I think it's one who not only registers their kittens, but provides excellent living conditions for all their cats, which would include any studs living in stud houses. I also think it's one who is prepared to take time to talk on the phone (I filter my potential purchasers that way), and when you visit. However the visit is stymied at present.

Personally I'd recommend not buying until the COVID restrictions relax enough to allow me to visit the breeder. Visits outside in the back garden, or videos, don't necessarily reveal what is going on in the house. I've visited one breeder's house to take a girl to stud and didn't leave her - it was dreadful in so many ways. Had I been visiting to look at kittens in her back garden, or had she set up a video viewing, I might have been in total ignorance of the squalor and so on in her house. I think it's also much easier for the unscrupulous to hide health issues and poorly grown kittens,

Now I have been to a house where I didn't want to sit down and was glad not to be offered a cup of tea, but it was a different kettle of fish. All the cats & kittens wandering looked healthy and well grown, and were confident. I would happily have brought one as a pet.

There is no requirement for a breeder to have their on prefix to register kittens. Breeders themselves are not registered except as the owner of a prefix. I did get a card when I got mine, I have no idea if I can still find it.

I don't like that this breeder will apparently take deposits on unborn kittens! And I don't think it's very clear, but there is a registered pedigree MAGGIESBRITS which I assume is her prefix.

However there is a website, a phone number, and email address and they are saying all the right things. However that doesn't mean they are a great breeder, and they are charging £1,200 which seems a lot to me. If the kittens came neutered there might be some justification.

Also:

_At present I have eight female cats. I'm mating my Queens with best quality Champion blood line stud boy._​
To me, if that's 8 breeding girls, that's a lot. She also doesn't give their pedigree names, and not a clue - not even a photo - of their stud. The English is also a bit strange - you might finding yourself dealing with a breeder for whom English is not their first language.

My personal advice is to hold fire for now, and to look further afield, for example Kresta (Pat K) that was posted earlier is an excellent breeder.


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

britishbritish said:


> Can we assume that sellers who are registered with the GCCF & have a prefix, and can provide proof of those 2 things, are actually legit?
> 
> For example, I'll just pick this seller out :
> 
> ...


It looks legit based on the information given, but I have not heard of them though looking at their FB page I can spot a prefix i do know and they are on the official GCCF list of prefixes which you can download here - https://www.gccfcats.org/Breeding-Information/Registered-Prefixes. I hve asked another friend who breeds them and she has not heard of them either but that doesn't mean that they are not reputable, just that it is not a well known prefix. My only "niggle" would be the "I'm taking reservations for upcoming litter due around 11.06 or any future litters" - most breeders I know won't take reservations until well after the kittens are actually born but the rest looks OK.

Looking at the website she cites champion bloodlines and I know the link I put up does too but at the end of the day that isn't necessary for a pet, temperament is more important, and in my own pedigrees (just neuters, I don't breed) my most successful one in shows so far came from pretty much untitled lines.


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

This is another reputable one, more your way https://www.rayanshel.co.uk/


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

carolmanycats said:


> This is another reputable one, more your way https://www.rayanshel.co.uk/


Xzbit stud boys don't grow on trees... The other boy looks splendidly mature, massive head & no neck!


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

Another highly recommended one in Kent - http://www.pampurred.co.uk/


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## Annealise (Nov 29, 2015)

Calvine said:


> Poor little thing; I wonder how many homes he will end up having in the first few months of his life. Is he going to get used to being with his mother again then sold?


The situation breaks my heart.


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## Annealise (Nov 29, 2015)

jasperthecat said:


> You only have to ask what is a genuine BSH kitten worth these days?...in fact what is any recognised and sought after pedigree breed is worth and you can guarantee that for every legitimate registered breeder adhering to all of the rules and protocols, there are probably five or even ten times as many people breeding and selling them who are not following good protocols but who are making a handsome profit from their endeavours, In fact I suspect they're making far more profit than legitimate ethical breeders ever will, simply because the legitimate and ethical breeder follows the rules and protocols and doesn't try to cut corners in order to wring every last penny of profit out of the litters they breed.
> 
> If I was going to spend getting on for £1000.00 on a kitten I would be extremely careful to whom I handed my money and I'd make sure I'd done a full background check as far as possible on the breeder before ever parting with my money.


Me too and I'd certainly do research into the breed to make sure I was sold what I was paying for!


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## britishbritish (Jun 30, 2020)

Yeah, completely understand all the points. The problem is, majority of these top tier breeders, rarely have litters for sale. no waiting lists, nothing. Then you have people that say dont use pets4homes. Even if they have a prefix. So we're kinda stuck at square one all over again.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

britishbritish said:


> Yeah, completely understand all the points. The problem is, majority of these top tier breeders, rarely have litters for sale. no waiting lists, nothing. Then you have people that say dont use pets4homes. Even if they have a prefix. So we're kinda stuck at square one all over again.


Then maybe look at cat rescues? Look for BSH that needs a new home. You will know how the cat looks like, no surprises.

I am so sorry for the kitten.
Of course they were happy to pay you back to stop you and then sell it again.

To carry on scamming...


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

I think the problem you are hitting, is there is more demand than supply, hence dodgy breeders have an easier inroad.
As with dogs, people have noticed that now a cross does not automatically mean cheap but oftentimes the catchy/cutsie name brings in more money.

Have a tabby cat that got pregnant? Easy, Bengal cross. Grey? Russian Blue. Long haired? Siberian or British long hair cross or even just Siberian or British long hair and so on.

If you need a particular breed and want a good breeder you may have to wait. The usual recommendation of go to a show to meet breeders is not possible now.

I am not sure if shelters are open for rehoming now but while they are shut, I think more people will turn to buying whatever they can get online. Kittens are always popular, whether a particular breed or not. But saying a particular breed brings in more money, even if not always truthful.

If you want a British Shorthair, I would probably email the breeders mentioned by others, and ask to be considered for their next litter.
Otherwise, I would go the rescue/shelter route.
I know you said you had already waited a few months for the kitten you had, which makes the time longer and can be very disappointing. 
I have two lovely cats, no particular breed but I know some people have their heart set on a particular breed.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> Yeah, completely understand all the points. The problem is, majority of these top tier breeders, rarely have litters for sale. no waiting lists, nothing. Then you have people that say dont use pets4homes. Even if they have a prefix. So we're kinda stuck at square one all over again.


Breeders may not have waiting lists per se but can either point you in the direction of a fellow breeder with kittens or will contact you when they have kittens. I don't have a waiting list but I have had people who specifically wanted one of my kittens so I gave them first refusal when I had a litter.


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## Annealise (Nov 29, 2015)

britishbritish said:


> Yeah, completely understand all the points. The problem is, majority of these top tier breeders, rarely have litters for sale. no waiting lists, nothing. Then you have people that say dont use pets4homes. Even if they have a prefix. So we're kinda stuck at square one all over again.


It can be difficult finding a breeder out of the season for litters. It took me a few years to find my kitten as at the time I was unaware that Spring /Summer were the most common time for kittens. Of course you can get them at other times but not in abundance. Where are you based? I can ask some of my registered breeder friends if they know of any imminent litters, or you could go on my contacts waiting lists?


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## IAH343 (Apr 13, 2020)

Just read through the whole thread, shocked that this breeder has done this to this little kitten.
Please, please, consider adopting a kitten. Especially since it is kitten season! Adoption fees range from £60 to just under £100 from what I have seen. I'd recommend Cats' Protection, and also the ARC in Wolverhampton, an amazing rescue. You will get a kitten that will have been well-cared for, and moggies can still exhibit affection as much as any other pedigree. Ginger ones are especially affectionate, as I have seen in my experience!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> Yeah, completely understand all the points. The problem is, majority of these top tier breeders, rarely have litters for sale. no waiting lists, nothing. Then you have people that say dont use pets4homes. Even if they have a prefix. So we're kinda stuck at square one all over again.


Why do you need a 'top tier' breeder? Are you thinking of showing?

Pets4Homes is fine BUT you have to read the advert properly, as outline several posts ago. The essence is finding a breeder who registers their kittens, visiting them, and deciding if you like how they are keeping their cats. You found an advert which boasted of having a prefix but said they weren't registering the kitten. That should have been a big red flag. A good breeder registers all their kittens, regardless if they are going as pets (the majority), show or breeding.

The other key thing is not to be in a rush. The right kitten is there, somewhere, for you, but not right now.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

I agree with OS, the trick is not avoiding a pet sale website but knowing what to look for and what to avoid. 
Even a breeder who registers their kittens may not be doing other things right, so best to visit or video conference if restrictions are still in place. Make sure all boxes ticked.


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## Annealise (Nov 29, 2015)

IAH343 said:


> Just read through the whole thread, shocked that this breeder has done this to this little kitten.
> Please, please, consider adopting a kitten. Especially since it is kitten season! Adoption fees range from £60 to just under £100 from what I have seen. I'd recommend Cats' Protection, and also the ARC in Wolverhampton, an amazing rescue. You will get a kitten that will have been well-cared for, and moggies can still exhibit affection as much as any other pedigree. Ginger ones are especially affectionate, as I have seen in my experience!


It is not always east to adopt a kitten. There were no places in my immediate area so. I tried a place 20 miles away. There were loads of Kittens when I visited but they said I lived outside the radius for staff to assess my house and therefore wouldn't be eligible


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Summercat said:


> I agree with OS, the trick is not avoiding a pet sale website but knowing what to look for and what to avoid.
> Even a breeder who registers their kittens may not be doing other things right, so best to visit or video conference if restrictions are still in place. Make sure all boxes ticked.


not as easy as you make out
cp blacklist my present area, in fact, most of the town, and blue x have refused to let me even go on a list when we move
why?
because i will keep it as an indoor only
and
build a catio for outside


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## carolmanycats (May 18, 2009)

Another one in Surrey who I think might have kittens but not sure if spoken for yet, might not be as still young but might be as I know her previous owners come back to her, often after losing one at 15/18 http://www.loraston.com/


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

britishbritish said:


> The problem is, majority of these top tier breeders, rarely have litters for sale. no waiting lists, nothing.


One linked says several times on their website there are kittens available.

While this isn't a guarantee they'll feel you are a suitable match, it is quite clearly written on at least 2 pages on their site.

You can also still contact others with no kittens, form a relationship so you can be advised when kittens are born or referred to others the breeder knows.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

mrs phas said:


> not as easy as you make out
> cp blacklist my present area, in fact, most of the town, and blue x have refused to let me even go on a list when we move
> why?
> because i will keep it as an indoor only
> ...


Do you mean Cats Protection? I was talking about in terms of a breeder in the post you quoted.
In another post, I said to consider a rescue or shelter as well. But yes, I know many shelter/ rescues do not allow indoor, which lead many to buy a cat from a breeder who would otherwise adopt. 
Though, in this particular thread, it seems the OP does want a British Shorthair in particular.
If she was willing to consider a rescue and had issues due to living in a flat or the area, I would suggest trying a smaller rescue as they may be more flexible.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

You could try a pedigree rescue like Strawberry Cat Rescue, they usually have British Shorthairs, as well as a few Exotics, Persians and MCs.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Treaclesmum said:


> You could try a pedigree rescue like Strawberry Cat Rescue, they usually have British Shorthairs, as well as a few Exotics, Persians and MCs.


Also check the breed clubs listed on the gccf page about bsh, some of them re-home bsh. It you use a tablet or phone turn it on its side and scroll down a little


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