# Lunging problems.



## *Amber* (Oct 22, 2010)

Ok, my Staffy girl is now 7 months old, and I've had big problems with her pulling, and really hurting my shoulders! I take her to training classes, and she's made a lot of progress with her "watch" and "leave" but out in the real world, she is just so excited by everything! I take little cubes of cheese for treats, and they do help, that is until we see another person or dog, and she really lunges at them, it's embarrassing! She isn't being nasty at all, she just wants to play, but I really need her to stop this lunging! I started using a halti which was immediate relief for my shoulders, but she hates it, and refuses to walk at first, and rubs it along in the mud, then grit goes into her eyes because the top part that goes over her nose is very close to her eyes, and it was irritating them, and I didn't like it, so I stopped using it, and have been using a dog games harness, and whilst she is better, and doesn't pull constantly now, she is still lunging at people, and hurting my shoulders so I'm thinking a head collar would be best really. Any ideas welcome, thanks.


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## *Amber* (Oct 22, 2010)

Anyone know of any good head collars please? Thanks.


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## Mumbles (Apr 17, 2011)

Unfortunately i can't be of any help, but i am interested if you get any responses as my boy lunges quite a lot to.

Good luck


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## *Amber* (Oct 22, 2010)

Hi, thanks for your reply. Somebody has told me that the Swag head collars are good, but they look like just a loop to me, so I was worried she'd get it off easily!


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Hi,

A few options for you:

1. If you want to use a headcollar:
Seeing as the halti was no good, size wise for fitting her face shape, what about something like this:
Online Shop | south west agility goods

Fleece lined, for added comfort. 
I've heard good things about the dogmatic head collar also.

HOWEVER and this is really important, before you walk her on it you need to do some work so that she enjoys having it put on and can tolerate wearing it (rather than finding it irritating and performing the same behaviour as she did with the halti). 
Ideas in video tutorials below:
Jean Donaldson- Conditioned Emotional Response

Domesticated Manners- Muzzle training- Same process for headcollars

Once your dog is really happy wearing her headcollar, I'd use your head collar, combined with a double ended (halti style) leash. With one clip attached to the headcollar and the other to her ordinary flat collar (or front clip of her dog-games harness).

2. Front Fitting Harness.

Kikopup says it all best in much more detail (CLICK HERE FOR VIDEO).

I now personally like using front fitting harness for pullers, reason being with the dog's lead attached at the chest when they do pull they are unable to proceed forward and will turn to the side- in towards the handler. 
You should always be aiming to be rewarding your dog or ask her for the right behaviour to reward before she gets the chance to perform the wrong one.

Example harnesses are the Gentle Leader Easy Walk or the Rolls Royce of non-pull harnesses "The Freedom Harness". You can also use a simple H-style harness as these have a metal ring at the chest which can be used to the same effect. 
Some dog games harnesses have clips added at chest, although I have found that they are often a little two low on the harness (due to harness design/fleece) and so can interfere with stride patterns and mean the leash gets in the way of the dogs legs.

Again I would use a front fitting harness with a double ended leash. One clip attached to clip at chest and the second one either to the dogs collar, to the clip at the shoulders or just use to form handle and use full length of lead.

All of the above tools need to be used as part of a retraining programme and cannot replace training.

Loose leash walking tutorials here:

KIKOPUP method

LAD- Connection

Use high value rewards. Food is good, doesn't always have to be food if there is a functional reward (getting to sniff a bush or whatever that she would have otherwise pulled you towards). That way you can let her "smell the roses" a bit. Makes onlead time enjoyable too. Lots of dogs find offlead "woo hoo- rave time" and onlead rubbish. So doing work with your dog, rewarding nice behaviour and making it worth their while and enjoyable is always fab.

Have fun


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

I had this problem with Dex when I rehomed him. It's taken a lot of work but now he hardly lunges - whereas he used to lunge every few minutes, at the sight of ANYTHING that was exciting or 'scary' or new to him.

Here is what worked for me:


First, re the headcollar. There are two I recommend. The first is the Dogmatic - paired with a strong double-ended lead. Ezy-Dog does one, I think it's the Vario 6. Email the team at Dogmatic for advice on sizing and get the padded/webbing one NOT the leather one.

Or

Gencon All-In-One. Be aware that this *does* tighten if the dog pulls or lunges so don't use it if your dog pulls constantly. However I found this great to stop the lunges but you then at the same time need to do training - I found the 'WATCH ME' command FAB for this.

I practised with Dex the 'watch me' at home and on quiet walks, we practised a lot. Then when your dog is about to lunge you give the command and the SECOND they look at you: BIG fuss and high value treat!

If you keep doing this together with using the headcollar to physically *stop* the lunges and breaking the habit, you should find that gradually, your dog starts to look at you instead of the lunge....But it takes time 

However after several months of doing this, I can happily say that Dex hardly lunges now, compared with CONSTANT lunges which were a nightmare!

Feel free to PM me if I can be of any help with this.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Try a Dogmatic. They`re expensive, but they don`t ride up. 
Are you using a double ended lead btw? You also need the lead attached to the collar. Or the dog just spins.


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## *Amber* (Oct 22, 2010)

Thank you so much for the replies! I have just watched all the youtube vids, thank you they were very informative! The front fitting harness looks great, I've never seen them before! It makes sense though. I think I may try one of those, as she really hates the head collar on her nose. I take little cubes of cheese out on walks, she loves it, and she really has got a lot better and is starting to walk really nicely at my side, and looks up at me, and I praise her loads for that. But..... if there is a dog, she finds them all too exciting to listen to mum, or be interested in treats at that time. She has got better if it's a person walking, and I can most of the time snap her out of her fixation with them with treats and rewards when she watches me. Yes I do have a Halti double ended lead which we use for walks.


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## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

Amber my Bramble hated the halti,so I went for the Beapher gentle leader and he is fine with it,no nose rubbing along the ground at all. I was advised to try this one by a friend and it doesnt ride up to the eyes like a halti. Bramble was a B****r and nearly had my arm out of my socket.Now its a delight to walk him. Amazon do them cheap.


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## *Amber* (Oct 22, 2010)

Thank you, I'm still having a little think about what to try, but I think it will be a front fitting harness.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

*Amber* said:


> Thank you so much for the replies! I have just watched all the youtube vids, thank you they were very informative! The front fitting harness looks great, I've never seen them before! It makes sense though. I think I may try one of those, as she really hates the head collar on her nose. I take little cubes of cheese out on walks, she loves it, and she really has got a lot better and is starting to walk really nicely at my side, and looks up at me, and I praise her loads for that. But.....* if there is a dog, she finds them all too exciting to listen to mum, or be interested in treats at that time.* She has got better if it's a person walking, and I can most of the time snap her out of her fixation with them with treats and rewards when she watches me. Yes I do have a Halti double ended lead which we use for walks.


I would advise putting more work into the 'watch me' when dogs are not around. It has to be SOLID. Build up the length of time your dog will watch you before you give her the treat. Practise on walks when no other dogs are there and then slowly practise when there are dogs in the distance.

Eventually you will probably find that the 'watch me' becomes such an ingrained response, almost a reflex, that it will work even when other dogs are around. Believe me, my dog used to go BESERK if he saw another dog. I never thought the 'watch me' would help. Now I can get him sitting and watching me for a treat even when dogs are nearby.


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## *Amber* (Oct 22, 2010)

Thank you, that's great, and very reassuring! My dog trainer has helped me a lot as well, and we've done a lot of work on watch and leave, and she is getting better slowly! Compared to what she was like a couple of months back, she's an angel ha ha! I will definitely keep working at it every day, and I'm sure we'll get there in the end!


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Any update OP? How's it going?


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## *Amber* (Oct 22, 2010)

Hi, well we tried a while with the SWAG headcollar, but in moments of excitement, she was able to just whip it off! I ordered a size 3 fabric Dogmatic headcollar, and I thought it was too big, so sent dogmatic photos, and they agreed it looked too big, so I had to wait a week for them to send me a size 2, and I am really disappointed that it's too small, the strap behind her ears was too tight, and the nose band doesn't sit flat, it digs in her nose, and it was so far forward on her nose, that she got it off with ease! Now I have to send the 2 back! They have said I could try the leather range, but I am wary, as I have read they are very rigid, and she hates anything on her face! Sooooo, now I am thinking about a freedom harness! She has recently pulled my left shoulder again, and it's really painful, she is so strong, and I just cannot cope with her on her flat collar. I feel like a failure! I've never had so many problems with dogs pulling so much in the past! 

Here is the size 2 dogmatic, clearly not right on her!


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

I have the exact same problem with the Dogmatic!

Size 3L should fit perfectly - but is slightly too tight and pinches Dex's mouth. Size 4 is too large, even on the smallest fitting.

You could try a Gentle Leader or maybe a Dogalter, from Kumfi UK?

The headcollar I use is a Gencon *but* it DOES tighten a bit, so I don't recommend it for any dog that is regularly lunging or pulling. It can work well on dogs that walk calmly for the most part.

Another option, and one I am looking at too as it was recommended by several people here, is a front attaching harness. If you look for my thread entitled 'Tried a new headcollar today' in 'Dog Chat', you will see that MILLIEPOOCHIE linked to one of these harnesses


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Why don't you use a walking belt?

It doesn't solve the problem but it will save your shoulders whilst she is learning!


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## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

*Amber* said:


> Hi, well we tried a while with the SWAG headcollar, but in moments of excitement, she was able to just whip it off! I ordered a size 3 fabric Dogmatic headcollar, and I thought it was too big, so sent dogmatic photos, and they agreed it looked too big, so I had to wait a week for them to send me a size 2, and I am really disappointed that it's too small, the strap behind her ears was too tight, and the nose band doesn't sit flat, it digs in her nose, and it was so far forward on her nose, that she got it off with ease! Now I have to send the 2 back! They have said I could try the leather range, but I am wary, as I have read they are very rigid, and she hates anything on her face! Sooooo, now I am thinking about a freedom harness! She has recently pulled my left shoulder again, and it's really painful, she is so strong, and I just cannot cope with her on her flat collar. I feel like a failure! I've never had so many problems with dogs pulling so much in the past!
> 
> Here is the size 2 dogmatic, clearly not right on her!


I find the beaphar gentle leader worked best for us. Amazon about £6. Also, you can get shock absorbers for dogs that really lunge. Again Amazon sell two different types. They basically attach to the headcollar or collar or harness and then you clip the lead onto the shock absorber extension. Type in shock absorber for dogs. Hope that helps. I found the dogmatic sizing wasn't suitable for Mac, and he hated it with a passion.

Please don't feel like a failure. Mac has been extremely difficult to get to walk on a loose lead. We were beginning to despair, when I went back to a method I tried months ago which didn't work at all then, but this time it really did and we are getting on much better now. Mac is 1 and we have been working hard on loose lead walking since we got him as a pup. I completely understand how difficult it is with a dog that pulls. Good luck.


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## *Amber* (Oct 22, 2010)

Thank you for your replies. I have really gone off the idea of headcollars altogether to be honest. She hates anything on her nose, really really hates it, and she can't concentrate with one on, she rubs her nose against my leg, or all through the grass, or just plain stops and will not walk. Every single headcollar I've tried, she's managed to remove. The wiggles wags and whiskers no pull freedom harness looks great, and I've seen Victoria Stillwell recommending them, and I think she'd tolerate it better than something on her face! My friend walked her Golden Retriever with a belt, and he lunged, pulled her over, and broke 2 of her ribs! xxx


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

I personally now am not a fan of head-collars either. 
I think a front fitting harness would be your best bet. 
Another one to look into is the premier easy walk harness, The Sensible Harness (HERE), mekuti balance harness. 
I've also heard good things about the Freedom harness too. 
If her pulling is so bad that is causing you trauma to your shoulders/arms, it will also be risking hurting her body too (certainly the use of a headcollar with such strength could have risked badly damaging her neck), I would suggest using a short bungee extension (the bungee bit is double ended, so it clips to the harness attachment and the other end clips to your regular lead). At least that way you are minimizing the risk of damage to both you and her .  Something like THIS  might be worth looking into?

Did you have any luck working through fixed reinforcement schedules such as 300 peck programmes; really breaking in down systematically for her so that she learns what you DO want?

Good luck.


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## *Amber* (Oct 22, 2010)

Thank you for your reply. I have posted the Dogmatic back. The mekuti balance harness does look good, but I am still swaying towards the freedom harness, as you also have a choice to attach the lead to the front or back, and they have great reviews. She usually walks perfectly with no people or dogs around, and I know she knows what close means, as she can trot beautifully beside me looking up at me all the time! Even out with tasty treats though, if she sees people or dogs, or especially children, it all goes out the window! I did see some spring-like shock absorbers in Seapets the other day, but didn't know if they were recommended!


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## The Fervid Pig (Apr 8, 2013)

I have the same problem with my dog. I tried a Halti too, and while it was a perfect fit he slipped it easily and it seemed to make him even more stressed so I don't use it any more. I saw a behaviourist and she said when out walking him never to let him get ahead, make him walk just slightly behind my left leg, and if he tries to push forward I need to push him back with my leg. She said it helps if there's a wall there to stop him avoiding my leg! You get some funny looks though.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

The Fervid Pig said:


> I have the same problem with my dog. I tried a Halti too, and while it was a perfect fit he slipped it easily and it seemed to make him even more stressed so I don't use it any more. *I saw a behaviourist and she said when out walking him never to let him get ahead, make him walk just slightly behind my left leg, and if he tries to push forward I need to push him back with my leg. *She said it helps if there's a wall there to stop him avoiding my leg! You get some funny looks though.


Is that working for you?

It wouldn't work for Dex...


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## The Fervid Pig (Apr 8, 2013)

It does if there's a wall there, otherwise he's off ahead, but I'll stick with it. The behaviourist said it'll probably take months, maybe a year. It's funny, if he sees a wall he automatically drops back!


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

The Fervid Pig said:


> The behaviourist said it'll probably take months, maybe a year. It's funny, if he sees a wall he automatically drops back!


The behaviourist sounds as though they shouldn't be calling themselves a "behaviourist". 
Sorry to be blunt, but just my impression from the info. :001_unsure:


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

The Fervid Pig said:


> It does if there's a wall there, otherwise he's off ahead, but I'll stick with it. The behaviourist said it'll probably take months, maybe a year. It's funny, if he sees a wall he automatically drops back!


No offence meant, but I think this is really odd advice from a 'behaviourist' 

It doesn't seem to do anything to address the cause of the lunges etc, or anything to engage your dog, distract him, calm him, etc.

And why would it take up to a year? Again, I don't get this. Sorry I really don't mean to sound negative!


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## The Fervid Pig (Apr 8, 2013)

He's very reactive, and a big part of his problem is frustration at being on a lead, so therefore she recommended to keep the lead loose so as not to add to his stress when he sees a moving object or dog. It's a good point, off lead in an enclosure he's great with dogs, or loose on his flexi he's fine, it's just if he's on a lead and sees a dog he lunges and barks. Keeping him behind me creates a barrier between him and whatever he fixates on, and makes it easier to get his attention. She said to be patient as it's not going to happen overnight! She also said the watch was important too and something I need to work on, but I won't get that if he's charging ahead of me all fired up. He'd already been rehomed twice before I got him because of his behaviour.


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