# Breeding



## joee (Feb 18, 2011)

JW about breeding predigree's (not looking to breed anytime soon just curious) do you have to have breeding rights from the breeder that you got your female off to even think about starting to breed from her?


----------



## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

As far as I understand it (I am not a breeder), when you buy your kitten from the breeder, you will be told if she is on the active or non-active register. If a kitten is on the active register, you can breed from her (when she is older) if you mate her with a male on the active register and then register the kittens.

If she is sold to you on the non-active register, you are not permitted to breed from her, and she is just for showing or to be kept as a pet. 

I also think I'm right in saying you will pay a lot more for a cat on the active register as opposed to one on the non-active register. Also they don't just sell breeding queens to anybody, you will have to prove you are knowledgable and have experience etc.


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Hi there, Joee

Wow, good for you for coming and asking advice instead of just breeding your girl.

You're right. you do have to get the original breeder's permission before breeding from your girl, and as the other poster said, if the kitten was just sold as a pet, chances are that you'll not be permitted to. In some circumstances, if the kit has developed well and is of breed quality, some breeders will put her on the active register, but this entirely depends on your circumstances at the time, the quality of the kitten, and whether or not you know enough about the breed and kittening etc to be given the go ahead by the breeder. The only thing you can do is ask what they think, but if you're truly interested in breeding, then you may find that you have to ask for a cat on the active register when you initially buy one.


----------



## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Chez87 said:


> As far as I understand it (I am not a breeder), when you buy your kitten from the breeder, you will be told if she is on the active or non-active register. If a kitten is on the active register, you can breed from her (when she is older) if you mate her with a male on the active register and then register the kittens.
> 
> If she is sold to you on the non-active register, you are not permitted to breed from her, and she is just for showing or to be kept as a pet.
> 
> *I also think I'm right in saying you will pay a lot more for a cat on the active register as opposed to one on the non-active register. Also they don't just sell breeding queens to anybody, you will have to prove you are knowledgable and have experience etc*.


*bolding by me* Yup a breeding queen will be a LOT more than a 'standard' non breeding pet kitten. And most good breeders are extremely choosy about who gets a queen.

it is not so much the 'right' to breed which is the important part (though it is, of course, important) but the reason why rights are attributed to certain queens. A female kitten who shows all of the very best qualities of the breed standard will be put on the active register. If a kitten has some small flaw according to the standard, they are unlikely to, so kittens sold as pet quality are not suitable for breeding for some reason or other.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

It isnt as easy as that, a breeder wont say to you 'yes shes on active' 'no shes isnt' basically all kittens are on non-active not for beeding unless stated, when you buy a kitten, your buying a pet, therefore you have to speak to the beeder well in advance so they can asess all thei kittens and pick out the best (if she gets one!) breeding / show quality girl.

I dont knwo any breeders who will then change over as pets are to be neutered at 6months (and more people ae neutering beforethey go) 

So research become friends with breeders, give them a idea of your breeding plans, where you are heading if you want to 
show etc

A good beeding queen doesnt have to be show quality as its rae to get alot of show/breed/perfect quality kittens in a litter, you might get 1 in 3 litters! So the queen might be of great type but have a tiny flaw that to your eye & most peoples wont even notice!

What breed ae you looking at?


----------



## joee (Feb 18, 2011)

ah ok thanks for comments and advice, yes i know it wouldn't be easy or simple by any means i don't plan to breed anytime soon. I would look at MC's or ragdolls


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

lol wel for 1. there isnt any money in it when its done properly, so I very much doubt that a breeder is even thinking that!

Draw up a plan what breed you want, what ype your heading fo what colours/patterns, non trad or trad, are the lines health tested, showing, have you owned the breed before, why are you breeding etc etc


----------



## joee (Feb 18, 2011)

lol ye i understand there wont be money in it when its done right.Okay will do thanks


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

What breed are you looking into?


----------



## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> What breed are you looking into?


They said MCs or raggies.


----------



## joee (Feb 18, 2011)

yea i was leaning more towards raiggies


----------



## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> *bolding by me* Yup a breeding queen will be a LOT more than a 'standard' non breeding pet kitten. And most good breeders are extremely choosy about who gets a queen.
> .


This is not necessarily true. It depends on the breed. For example, I have found with British Shorthairs that you rarely need to pay more for a breeding queen. It's the newer 'fashionable' breeds that seem to charge more for active cats.

Personally I don't understand why the extra cost (but then my experience is only with moggies and Brits). A good breeder should be most focussed on ensuring that active cats are only sold to reliable trustworthy breeders. 

I'd suggest visiting a cat show and chatting to the exhibitors in person. The amount you can learn in a few hours is well worth the effort!


----------



## joee (Feb 18, 2011)

Dozymoo said:


> I'd suggest visiting a cat show and chatting to the exhibitors in person. The amount you can learn in a few hours is well worth the effort!


Yeah cheers, i was thinking about going down to some shows to get more info


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

have you owned ragdolls before? Do you want to breed traditional ones or old english or non traditionals? Health testing, HCM/PKD? what are your aims within the breed? Why do you want to breed them? What colours and patterns?


----------



## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> have you owned ragdolls before? Do you want to breed traditional ones or old english or non traditionals? Health testing, HCM/PKD? what are your aims within the breed? Why do you want to breed them? What colours and patterns?


I don't think the OP has got that far yet :lol: but I'm sure they would bear all these questions in mind should they choose to go down the breeding route.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Chez87 said:


> I don't think the OP has got that far yet :lol: but I'm sure they would bear all these questions in mind should they choose to go down the breeding route.


thats just the basics!


----------



## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> thats just the basics!


Oh I've no doubt that you're right, but I don't think the OP is seriously considering breeding at this point in time.


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> *bolding by me* Yup a breeding queen will be a LOT more than a 'standard' non breeding pet kitten.


Not true in all breeds. It is true in a lot but not all.



> it is not so much the 'right' to breed which is the important part (though it is, of course, important) but the reason why rights are attributed to certain queens. A female kitten who shows all of the very best qualities of the breed standard will be put on the active register. If a kitten has some small flaw according to the standard, they are unlikely to, so kittens sold as pet quality are not suitable for breeding for some reason or other.


Don't believe that, it simply isn't true. There are some very very good cats put on the non-active simply because either the breeder is not prepared to sell active register kittens (either at all, or to a specific person) or because the stud owner makes that a condition of using her stud. In some breeds it is virtually impossible to get a male on active and difficult even to get a female.

Liz


----------



## joee (Feb 18, 2011)

Taylorbaby said:


> have you owned ragdolls before? Do you want to breed traditional ones or old english or non traditionals? Health testing, HCM/PKD? what are your aims within the breed? Why do you want to breed them? What colours and patterns?


No, intend to own a ragdoll for a while first, i wanted to breed traditonal ones when im more serious and have owned a ragdoll for a while, The predigree lines have to trace back to Josephine, colours seal, HCM/PKD is to test your ragdoll hopefully negative to Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy and also Kidney Disease because you wouldn't want to breed from a qeen that was postive, or any other health issue's to pass on. But im far from starting to want to breed yet like chez87 said.


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

joee said:


> No, intend to own a ragdoll for a while first, i wanted to breed traditonal ones when im more serious and have owned a ragdoll for a while, The predigree lines have to trace back to Josephine, colours seal, HCM/PKD is to test your ragdoll hopefully negative to Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy and also Kidney Disease because you wouldn't want to breed from a qeen that was postive, or any other health issue's to pass on. But im far from starting to want to breed yet like chez87 said.


It's good to see someone who is taking their time to check on all the aspects before diving in :thumbup: Good for you Joee and I hope you enjoy visiting cat shows and talking to the breeders. Some of them can be a bit stand-offish but there are some nice and helpful ones too.


----------



## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

lizward said:


> Not true in all breeds. It is true in a lot but not all.
> 
> Don't believe that, it simply isn't true. There are some very very good cats put on the non-active simply because either the breeder is not prepared to sell active register kittens (either at all, or to a specific person) or because the stud owner makes that a condition of using her stud. In some breeds it is virtually impossible to get a male on active and difficult even to get a female.
> 
> Liz


This is so true, also you have the demand factor, if a breeder has nobody interested in a Show/breeding queen or Stud despite having a Fantastic example of the breed standards, they are sometimes sold as Special Pets if for example the breeder is at full capacity and can not house another Show/breeding Cat/Kitten. So they are passed onto the Non-Active register despite being Perfect for Show/Breeding.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

joee said:


> No, intend to own a ragdoll for a while first, i wanted to breed traditonal ones when im more serious and have owned a ragdoll for a while, The predigree lines have to trace back to Josephine, colours seal, HCM/PKD is to test your ragdoll hopefully negative to Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy and also Kidney Disease because you wouldn't want to breed from a qeen that was postive, or any other health issue's to pass on. But im far from starting to want to breed yet like chez87 said.


thats good, just to say that with raggies they all date back to jose, but trads have no outcrosses and are the orginal 6-12imported into the country


----------



## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

joee said:


> No, intend to own a ragdoll for a while first, i wanted to breed traditonal ones when im more serious and have owned a ragdoll for a while, The predigree lines have to trace back to Josephine, colours seal, HCM/PKD is to test your ragdoll hopefully negative to Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy and also Kidney Disease because you wouldn't want to breed from a qeen that was postive, or any other health issue's to pass on. But im far from starting to want to breed yet like chez87 said.


may i suggest if you want to buy a traditional ragdoll that you contact the traditionalist ragdoll cat society. they will have a list of breeders who specilise in the traditionals and get a pet kitten from them. they also specialise in the old english lines.
if then you want to, at a later date, buy a breeding queen, from the breeder they will usually give you lots of help and advice, a mentor if you like.
good luck


----------



## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

just another thought, when you do consider, might be an idea to go to the ragdoll seminars, you can pick up alot of advice from them


----------



## princessa rags (Apr 30, 2010)

are breedersn starting to pkd ragdolls?ive only seen 1 advertise that her cat is pkd.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

jenny armour said:


> may i suggest if you want to buy a traditional ragdoll that you contact the traditionalist ragdoll cat society. they will have a list of breeders who specilise in the traditionals and get a pet kitten from them. they also specialise in the old english lines.
> if then you want to, at a later date, buy a breeding queen, from the breeder they will usually give you lots of help and advice, a mentor if you like.
> good luck


Im on there now! *waves*!



princessa rags said:


> are breedersn starting to pkd ragdolls?ive only seen 1 advertise that her cat is pkd.


well, its yes and no, in america, 1% of the raggies tested were positve for PKd, so it worked out to 7 out of 783

in the UK its worked out to 4% 7 out of 167.

BUT We dont know if these are the lines affected are the one swith persians in them, although someone did have a trad a while back, but then any cat can get this like hcm really.

you can only HCM test raggie for the 'known' raggie gene, so you cant put 'hcm negative' as they arent, they are only neg for that raggie gene, they could go on to get one of the many other hcm forms!

With the PKD, I know quite alot testing for it now, its onl £30 per cat so thats my next thing, currently testing mine for choci.

try langford vets thats were most of us get it all done:
Diagnostic Laboratory | Information owners | Langford Veterinary Services


----------



## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

No harm in any cat being tested for PKD.

I'd strongly recommend that if you intend to breed in future, to consider buying a neuter to show to demonstrate your commitment to learning about the breed.


----------



## princessa rags (Apr 30, 2010)

well thats the next thing to get done.both my raggies are tested normal for the hcm rag gene. but they dont carry choc well cheyenne doesnt.havent tested mercy.


----------



## Chez87 (Aug 11, 2010)

joee said:


> No, intend to own a ragdoll for a while first, i wanted to breed traditonal ones when im more serious and have owned a ragdoll for a while, The predigree lines have to trace back to Josephine, colours seal, HCM/PKD is to test your ragdoll hopefully negative to Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy and also Kidney Disease because you wouldn't want to breed from a qeen that was postive, or any other health issue's to pass on. But im far from starting to want to breed yet like chez87 said.


Sorry didn't mean to jump the gun and answer before you!


----------



## joee (Feb 18, 2011)

Chez87 said:


> Sorry didn't mean to jump the gun and answer before you!


no its ok was just saying


----------



## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

princessa rags said:


> are breedersn starting to pkd ragdolls?ive only seen 1 advertise that her cat is pkd.


i wouldnt be surprised as there is some or has been in the past outcrossing with the persian breed which can suffer with pkd


----------

