# Psycho Cat ???



## timunator (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi,

I love my cat and is Bengal with a strong character however about eight neighbours have put together this action group and requested to re-home my cat. I asked them to use a pistol water to avoid her but keep ringing me the problems between their cats and mine and started to receive letters from the group and more people are getting involved. Honestly not sure what to do. Could you please help.

Thks,


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## NEW2CATS (Aug 28, 2009)

what exactly is your cat being accused of doing?


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

whats the cat doing?


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Can you not keep your cat as indoor only? That will keep your cat safe and will stop your neighbours having concerns.

I too am interested to hear what exactly your cat has been up to!


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I would guess she is fighting with every cat in sight.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

is she/he neutered?


I wouldnt let my bengals outside, nearly everyone ive sold a bengal to was buying another one as the last one was hit by a car  plus you know they are different, and my girls arent the best climbers. cant you keep them indoors?


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## Melly (Aug 27, 2010)

if it was me, i'd be keeping kitty indoors.


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## SuperSimoholic (Sep 16, 2010)

I think making them a house cat would be the considerate thing to do, if they're causing so much "trouble" in the neighbourhood.
It sounds like there are a lot of people and I don't think the housing people are going to ignore a group that big, just for the sake of "one cat" because they aren't going to think about you or how you feel, they'll just want to shut the mob up!


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I think some people are scared of Bengals and if this was just some moggie causing trouble, they would just shoo him away and think nothing of it, because it is a "wild cat" then they all get heated.

Unless of course she is attacking people and eating their kids!


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

like others have suggested, can't you have your cat indoors, or perhaps cat proof the garden or build a cat run? this will not only solve the neighbour 'problem' but also keep your cat safe too.
intrigued to know what your cat's been up to


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## Sparkles87 (Aug 30, 2010)

Hey! 
I don't know much about different breeds having my own gorgeous ginger moggie, so can't really comment as others have on the temperament of a bengal in relation to other cats. I've found everyone here to be pretty knowledgeable though so they probably know what they're talking about. However, if your cat isn't doing anymore damage than a regular outdoor moggie (scrapping etc), then you should not have to change your situation. Perhaps talk with your neighbours about what could be done on all sides to make the situation more bearable? 

If on the other side of the token your beloved kitty is doing some very naughty or dangerous things (to people, property, or other cats), all you can really do is build a cat run or keep him indoors. This is safer for your cat, your neighbours cats and your sanity!

Hope you get something sorted
Sparkles


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

I really dont want to be the harbinger of doom. but do bear in mind when neighbourhood disputes arise around cats, this is often when poison is put down to cure that problem. 

Show me a spate of cat poisonings in a neighbourhood and 9 times out of 10 with enough digging you start hearing stories about disgruntled neighbours whose plants and flowers were getting ruined, garden getting pooped in daily, shed stank of cat pee and so on.

I am not condoning cat poisoning which is ALWAYS wrong and totally unjustifiable, I am just saying well if it was my cat I would definitely be keeping it in/building a cat run/cat proofing my garden.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2010)

Could your neighbour be Kate252


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GreyHare said:


> Could your neighbour be Kate252


oh that's priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## timunator (Oct 14, 2010)

Morning,

Basically my cat scares the neighbours as she enters houses and combat with some cats however she comes back with scratches and ripped ears.

Could exclude her from the outdoors but naturally will leave her at will. The fact the neighbours have easy access is their issue. One of their cats have dissappeared recently and they say she killed them. She has lived here for five years and suddenly the action group put together this letter last week and mentioned the main problem is a new entrant to the suburb. Have a look at the letters. 

What do you think ?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

I don't know if you are the husband or the wife mentioned in the letters…. But that the husband put the phone down on the lady when she phoned up to tell of his cat's latest attack…. Eek…. Not nice.

Legally, I doubt your neighbours have much (if any) clout.

Morally, I can't understand you allow this to happen.

And either the neighbours are collectively going into some form of group panic and hysteria… but at least 2 sets of neighbours appear to describe your cat as very aggressive not just to other cats, but to them. Have you considered the possibility of what will happen if this cat attacks an owner when they try to separate two fighting cats ??

One of the neighbours cats has suffered around 20 attacks from your cat…. And it is stressed in the letter that the bullying your cat does is not _ordinary bullying_, and I must say, it sure doesn't sound like it. Especially the bit about your cat being aggressive to people, not just other cats.

To be honest I don't understand them, or you. In their shoes I would keep my cat in. In your shoes, I would keep my cat in.

I don't know what you want us in here to advise you of….. I suppose legally you are well within your rights to let your cat out. Morally, we all have to live together and I simply could not live with myself if a cat of mine was inflicting this much bad feeling in a street, not to mention constantly inflicting pain and suffering on others pets.

And don't forget what I mentioned above about poisoning…. Your neighbours may very well get so sick of your cats aggressive behavior and the lack of response from you and your husband/wife that they may just take matters into their own hands and lay down a nice plate of whiskas laced with rat poison. If you wish to take that risk it is totally up to you of course, I know I wouldn't. I would simply keep my cat indoors, and look into cat proofing my garden or building a cat run.

I was speaking to people in our shelter earlier this week... a similar story, they had a 11 month old tom cat that they never got around to neutering.... it was causing a lot of problems in the street where they lived. Suddenly a week or so ago their cat disappeared. A few days later they got an anonymous letter through the post telling them that a group of neighbours had acted together to trap their cat and drive it to a location 100km from their home before letting it out. Of course there's wrong on both sides here. But the bottom line is.... a pet has been dumped 100km from its home and left to fend for itsself.... most likely not in a built up area but in the middle of nowhere. I am not saying this group of vigilante neighbours were right.... no... but when people are pushed and desperate, they sometimes take matters into their own hands. That's just human nature.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2010)

I think you ought to blank names and addresses out on the letters you posted as I would not be happy having my name and address put on the internet without my knowledge :frown: Oh lordy I just noticed that there is telephone numbers on the letters too eek.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

GreyHare said:


> I think you ought to blank names and addresses out on the letters you posted as I would not be happy having my name and address put on the internet without my knowledge :frown: Oh lordy I just noticed that there is telephone numbers on the letters too eek.


OMG you are right!!!!! And signatures. EEEEEEEEEK!! I was so taken in reading the actual letter I never even noticed.

oh dear.... I am not one of those people to run to forum admin.... I have never reported a post.... do you GH or anyone else think I should ask the mods to delete those attachments ???? I dont want to be a "grass" but I would not appreciate my name, address, telephone number and signature being posted on perforum?

OP if you read this.... please either delete the attachements or alter them to pretect your neighbours privacy.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2010)

Tje said:


> OMG you are right!!!!! And signatures. EEEEEEEEEK!! I was so taken in reading the actual letter I never even noticed.
> 
> oh dear.... I am not one of those people to run to forum admin.... I have never reported a post.... do you GH or anyone else think I should ask the mods to delete those attachments ???? I dont want to be a "grass" but I would not appreciate my name, address, telephone number and signature being posted on perforum?
> 
> OP if you read this.... please either delete the attachements or alter them to pretect your neighbours privacy.


Thankfully they have gone, I was considering reporting the post but it feels a bit like running to the teacher


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## Parallax (Oct 16, 2010)

It seems to me you don't understand the nature of Bengal cats or especially your own cat.

They can be very aggressive and dominant in personality and fight very differently to a normal domestic moggie. A small moggie doesn't have a hope against a big aggressive adept fighter like a Bengal. I also have a neighbour like you who won't take responsibility of his Bengal. He breaks into our house to attack our cats. His cat attacks every other cat in the street and each attack for us is a vet visit.

Yes his cat might get a couple of tiny nips and scratches, but the damage his cat has done to others can sometimes look like dog bites. I have seen this cat attack, and it is brutal.

I'm not sure what our solution is yet as our neighbour refuses to admit his cat has aggression problems. So all I can say your neigbours are being VERY VERY nice and obviously love cats by starting this petition, writing letters. Count yourself lucky as there are other nasty solutions that neighbours could adopt.

Neighbours are generally not vigilantes, and it seems you have refused to listen and have refused to control your own pet or recognize the extent of the problem. So keep your cat indoors, or rehome it somewhere where it can not attack other cats. At least talk and listen to your neighbours concerns instead of thinking posting up their private information on the internet will sort your problem out.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Parallax said:


> It seems to me you don't understand the nature of Bengal cats or especially your own cat.
> 
> They can be very aggressive and dominant in personality and fight very differently to a normal domestic moggie. A small moggie doesn't have a hope against a big aggressive adept fighter like a Bengal. I also have a neighbour like you who won't take responsibility of his Bengal. He breaks into our house to attack our cats. His cat attacks every other cat in the street and each attack for us is a vet visit.
> 
> ...


Do you own bengals?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Hi Parallax,

I have to skip the bits about Bengal character traits as what I know about Bengals could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

I do totally agree with you on these points



Parallax said:


> it seems you have refused to listen and have refused to control your own pet or recognize the extent of the problem. So keep your cat indoors, or rehome it somewhere where it can not attack other cats.
> 
> At least talk and listen to your neighbours concerns instead of thinking posting up their private information on the internet will sort your problem out.
> So all I can say your neigbours are being VERY VERY nice and obviously love cats by starting this petition, writing letters. Count yourself lucky as there are other nasty solutions that neighbours could adopt.


In the OP's (original poster's) shoes, no way would my cat be going outdoors (apart from the fact I would never want my cat to inflict damage on other cats) no matter how nice my neighbours were, I know all too well how these relatively minor cat-issues can be easily solved with a plate of tinned salmon and a bit of rat poison.

And I totally agree that the OP in this post really needs to talk to his/her neighbours. In one of the (now deleted) letters from the neighbours that the OP posted yesterday, one of the neighbours mentioned phoning the husband (owner of the Bengal) who put the phone down on her. Not just "not nice"  but how can a solution be reached if the concerned parties dont communicate. The OP is practically inviting vigilante action by not communicating with his neighbours.

And it goes without saying the OP should never have posted up their private communication between him/her and the neighbours.

I hope you get the hassles with the cats in your neighbourhood sorted out. All the best.


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## oohmygod831 (Oct 14, 2010)

i own 2 cats and rescued and takin in many more and i know i woouldnt hesitate 2 keep it in if it were causing so much trouble you have 2 look at it the other way what if it were your cat that was getting bullied,vet trips etc,i know id not be happy,if it were me id keep it in or cat proof your gdn,its unfair to the other residents and their cats to suffer,you never know they could snap and send you the bill,with a solicitors letter,i know of someone who done that.


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

Re the Bengal cat in question; in the middle of last night, at 3am in the morning, she attacked my cat yet again outside my back door. I couldnt fail to hear the noise, it woke me up, and I came down, bleary-eyed, and managed to shoo her off. 
About a week ago she had attacked my cat in the afternoon, once again outside my back door. I liberally hosed this ball of yowling cats flying fur and claws, but far from being deterred the Bengal went on attacking my cat into my house and ended up at the top of my stairs hissing and very aggressive. I might say no-one (re Timunators post ) has suggested a water pistol to me and in the event it is laughable to think it would be any use. On that occasion I went to find the owner, and the father of the owner came (I dont know the family, only where they live) and tried to coax her out, and then said she will be alright if you dont touch her, (mmmmm) then said something about it being his daughters cat. I asked where she was, and he said at work. He gave the impression he was going to get his daughter and then left me holed up in my own house for half an hour with a hissing wet cat, hoping my own equally wet cat had found somewhere to hide. The owners father didnt come back, the daughter did not appear, nor has anyone at any time said sorry to any of us.

Timunator accuses us of having too easy access but most of us have had to invest in very expensive electronic cat flaps to keep her out. This is still not enough because she is a determined aggressor and waits outside to pounce. I have to accompany my cat out so he dare have a pee and he is looking around fearfully all the while, and streaks back in immediately. He is a big softee coward I am afraid. Obviously he fights back if he has to, but he is scared. Now he is peeing in the house, something he hasnt done since he was a kitten. Same thing happened to my neighbours cat. They are traumatised and insecure and they mark their territory instinctively.

Timunator says we accused her cat of killing another. First I heard of it. My neighbours very elderly mostly-in-the-house cat disappeared for a week for no obvious reason and one did wonder why, since she was eventually found exactly where she might have run to had she been chased. The first time this cat was attacked, I happened to be feeding her in my neighbours house while she was away and it was a savage attack on a 19 year old cat. 
All of this has its effect on those witnessing their cats being attacked. It is very disturbing, even frightening, and leaves me for one shaking. It is not normal cats scrapping. It is clear from what one can read about Bengals that a lot have problem behaviour, and she is one of them.

Timunator says why now? and that they have been here for 5 years. I guess since most of us have been here 20 years or more 5 years still makes them newcomers but in any case while the owners parents have been here that long, I dont think the Bengal has.
Be that as it may, the fact is that one puts up with these things for just so longand one doesnt continually compare notes with ones cat-owning neighbours and so it was accidentally that we found that we were all simultaneously experiencing the same worrying problems and had been for a long time.

I ( all of us I am sure) understand that the owner loves her cat and wants to get people on this forum to justify her doing nothing about the situation. I was relieved to see that many people posting had been able to imagine what they would feel about the situation were it related to their own cats. Who knows how many other cats this cat is aggressing. Her territory is wide. We havent gone knocking on doors to find out ; we are just a friendly group of neighbours living a few doors from each other and who own cats and are concerned about them. We hoped that informing the owners of how damaging their cats behaviour is might encourage some compromise on their part. Keep the cat in, or re-home it.

How did we know?well, what goes around comes around, as they say!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Aha, I was actually wondering whether the newbies that have joined this thread are some of the neighbours


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## oohmygod831 (Oct 14, 2010)

I was wondering if any1 on this site was from the street 2,and i have 2 say i love my cats i even feed strays but if i were in that street id be blowing my top,how can you knowingly let your cat out when theres plently of proof its agressive- my mums cats part bengal-,shes lucky its nothing like that her neighbours love her as it kills mice rats spiders etc-if it were me id keep it in neuter it-if not already done-or rehome ,to be a responsible owner you have 2 do whats best for all and in this case whether its liked or not the cat is dangerous and needs to be kept in until its sorted or another solution comes up .


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Aha, I was actually wondering whether the newbies that have joined this thread are some of the neighbours


Well, when people think it is OK to publish addresses and phone numbers...well...
they should think of the adverse consequences! However it took some time and I hadn't read the posts until I wrote mine.

Incidentally is there some way of informing one of replies on email?
I couldn't find anything to tick as it were.

I do thank everyone for their support here. I really don't think the owners of that cat understand the damage it is doing. Maybe they will now. Seeing things through other people's eyes can be, might be, could be, helpful. It is a such a pretty cat too! And a female!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

enthusiast said:


> Well, when people think it is OK to publish addresses and phone numbers...well...
> they should think of the adverse consequences! However it took some time and I hadn't read the posts until I wrote mine.
> 
> Incidentally is there some way of informing one of replies on email?
> ...


There sure is a way. Go to edit profile, just underneath the perforums tab. That gives you the subscribed threads, i.e. the ones that you are posting on. If you click on view subscribed threads, then that allows you to set notifications when new replies are being posted.

Hope that helps!


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

That Bengal or any other cat that has a similar outlook on life will not be happy until she has scared every cat in the district away.

This is not solvable, they will not get used to each other. There has to be some agreement apmongst the owners if all cats are going to get outside.

Perhaps a type of shift system, or just keep the cats inside all together.. 

Fighting is not good for any of the cats, even the winner. 
Perhaps rehome the Bengal to somewhere in the country where she is not going to come up against other cats every day, as this must be extremely stressful for her.


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Aha, I was actually wondering whether the newbies that have joined this thread are some of the neighbours


The only other newbie is Parallax...and he/she doesn't sound like anyone I know...for the record. But that is not to say there might not be some in the future.

Thanks for the advice re email alerts...it appears to be automatic.
Cheers.


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## goldleaf (Oct 13, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> This is not solvable, they will not get used to each other. There has to be some agreement apmongst the owners if all cats are going to get outside.


this is, with respect, not entirely true. we sell a system to keep even the most determined cat within its garden. the 'katzecure' system isnt cheap but it is effective. the ideal solution for this case.
i will leave a link and mods can remove it if im breaking any forum rules. 
we are offering all forum users a 10% install discount at the moment too
Gold Leaf Fencing Company


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

The katzecure will not allow all cats to be free roaming it will allow them to be in their own little patch, ie their garden and needs fences and walls to do so.


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## goldleaf (Oct 13, 2010)

yep its true that we cant contain every cat in the country but we could contain the bengal in question and it would be free roaming in as much as it can get in to the garden rather than having that freedom taken away as some have suggested, im not saying thats not a good option but i am saying here we are and this is something we can do. :thumbup:

at the very least its another option for the owner.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I am not talking about containing every cat in the country although I am sure that would be good news for your five year plan, but the OP obviously from what she/he says doesn't want to contain her cat.

Being not solvable, I meant that there will be no resolution with all the cats eventually cosying up to each other, as that is just not going to happen.


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## Parallax (Oct 16, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Aha, I was actually wondering whether the newbies that have joined this thread are some of the neighbours


I'm not one of the neighbours in question. Our street also has the same problem with a big Bengal behaving in the same way.

He is a beautiful looking cat and around humans he appears to be friendly except of course no-one can ever pick him up. The problem is he just doesn't give up when he attacks other cats in the street. Most cats have a few blows and the loser escapes, I know my cat has been in many many fights. But not this cat, he will follow the cat home to continue inflicting harm. I have never seen another cat successfully defend themselves as he tends to go for their necks to hold them down and tries to stop them breathing. It really is very traumatic to watch it. My cat now wees inside too, all the problems of a stressed cat.

The next vet trip my neighbour will be getting the bill.

Bengals now concern me as I am sure the majority are harmless beautiful cats, but it seems there are many people who have to deal with aggression problems and many owners who aren't ensuring there cats are fully socialized with clear boundaries and respect for people. My neighbours Bengal would attack me given half a chance, he is totally fearless. A water gun is pointless as he thinks its just a game and even seems to like it. These cats are very very intelligent, so I am sure ignoring them and leaving them to their own devices is the wrong thing to do.

So I hope this Bengal owner does the decent thing and takes their neighbours complaints seriously and takes responsibility. This cat would be better off re-homed and aloud to roam without other cats and maybe with human company all day to entertain it.


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

I have been reading this thread with interest. I think any cat behaving in this way should be kept inside,regardless of its breed. I think it is hugely irresponsible of the owner to allow its cat free access to the outdoors when it is causing so much distress! 

If you own a strong and potentially aggressive cat like a Bengal then you should have a cat run or secured garden. I have seen these cats at the Tica shows and they always mis-behave and also cause a great deal of stress to other cats penned around them. At one show the judge actually said if a cat cannot behave at a show then they shouldn't be there. I have stewarded at a Tica show where Bengals have swiped out at people as they walk past the judging area,even tiny Bengal kittens! They are beautiful cats yes,but I think only truly knowledgable people should own them! the OP does obviously not come across as experienced,just rather selfish actually!

I imagine sooner or later that the neighbours or a non cat lover will deal with this creature,why let it come to that? best to act now before things get seriously out of hand!

Izzie


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Izzie999 said:


> I imagine sooner or later that the neighbours or a non cat lover will deal with this creature,why let it come to that? best to act now before things get seriously out of hand!


I agree, this is bound to end badly for the cat, if nothing is done.

I do not think *all* Bengals act this way but some are definitely highly territorial and are a often a strong, athletic cat and if not physically strong are mentally strong, compared to your usual moggie, who will not stand a chance.


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

I am not sure that the Timunator is the actual owner of the cat...it could be her mother.The daughter/cat owner is living with her parents while a house a few doors down is being gutted and restored for her. Her father (who came to my house on that occasion) is a builder (and the house owner I think) and is supervising the job.*He is in the perfect position to make sure that there is a cat run *(as has been suggested by contributors here) at the daughters house when it is finished. We would all be very grateful to know that this solution was in view. 
I do hope Timunator hasn't given up reading what she started here! I do hope she will take a fresh look at what may be done.

Parallax's description perfectly matches our experiences. Certainly I have felt under personal threat from the animal when trying to shoo it away...and so have my neighbours.


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

enthusiast said:


> I am not sure that the Timunator is the actual owner of the cat...it could be her mother.The daughter/cat owner is living with her parents while a house a few doors down is being gutted and restored for her. Her father (who came to my house on that occasion) is a builder (and the house owner I think) and is supervising the job.*He is in the perfect position to make sure that there is a cat run *(as has been suggested by contributors here) at the daughters house when it is finished. We would all be very grateful to know that this solution was in view.
> I do hope Timunator hasn't given up reading what she started here! I do hope she will take a fresh look at what may be done.
> 
> Parallax's description perfectly matches our experiences. Certainly I have felt under personal threat from the animal when trying to shoo it away...and so have my neighbours.


I hope she does too! if nothing else to make her aware of peoples feelings on this! A run with plenty of climbing equipment would make this situation bearable for the cat and for everyone involved in this situation!

I know not all Bengals are like this,it is an extreme case.

Izzie


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## timunator (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi,

The neutered female Bengal cat is my cat not the father/mother/daughter/builder.

The main problem is about cat to cat action. I have received letters and information regarding the breed of cat but too much inbreeding ideas. To dilute this I will contact the vet to refer a feline behavioural specialist. Cats need sun, exercise and freedom so during evenings the cat will be indoors.

My cat does come home with bloody scars and yesterday received an eye infection yet I won't pursue what happened. Also, won't input a bionic wifi skype camera catseye and cause problems as Clapham is known as Nappy Valley not Death Valley. For a real problem you won't be amused 'Warning: Dangerous Cat - has attacked 13 people in the last six years' | Mail Online . Please note: Cats in the UK are classified as free-roaming animals which aren't covered by legislation. Poisoning cats and receiving threatening letters is illegal but wholesome letters are ok.

Thks,
The Timunator


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Have you looked into cat proofing your garden (so that your cat cannot leave it and others cannot get in)? Or perhaps a cat run would also work? Either way your cat would get the sun, exercise and a little freedom that leaves her unscathed.


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## Spook (Aug 10, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Have you looked into cat proofing your garden (so that your cat cannot leave it and others cannot get in)? Or perhaps a cat run would also work? Either way your cat would get the sun, exercise and a little freedom that leaves her unscathed.


This is a really good idea. It's also quite cheap to do, i'm in the process of blocking off all the holes in my garden because of my new kitten.


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

Cats in the UK are classified as free-roaming animals which aren't covered by legislation. Poisoning cats and receiving threatening letters is illegal but wholesome letters are ok.

We understand that. We haven't written threatening letters as you know.
Just an hour ago my cat was about to go out when he let out one of those unearthly sounds as he saw your cat outside the cat flap. Thats why he is peeing in the house; he is terrified. I go out with him to make sure he has the confidence to go outside in my garden otherwise it would be worse.
Unfortunately I can't tell my cat when it is safe to go out and that evenings are OK. I am not surprised your cat gets scratched...if she were human I would say it was her own fault as she attacks every cat in sight and obviously, if they have to, they will fight back. I am scared my cat will lose an eye. Your cat is getting her exercise at the expense of ours. 
For the protection of your cat and ours, you should keep your cat in such a way that it cannot harm ours. You will have a garden when your house is finished...you should seal the garden off. Other poeple do that, so why can't you? I appreciate that this is a bore and not _convenient _for you, but whatever the law says, you have a moral responsibility to your neighbours not to harm their interests. The law is not a substitute for morality.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I can see both sides, but Timunator, a cat that is getting into fights is not a happy cat. It must be incredibly stressful for her always feeling the need to fight with other cats. She is also getting injured, one day she will pick a fight with a stronger foe and it may end badly for her. 
Freedom is all very well but this is not happy freedom.

enthusiast - If Timunator is going to make a concession as to keeping her cat in in the evening then it is perhaps something you and your cat need to consider as long as it is safe to do so then letting your cat out at times when he is unlikely to get into a fight is better than nothing


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

enthusiast said:


> you should seal the garden off. Other poeple do that, so why can't you? I appreciate that this is a bore and not _convenient _for you, but whatever the law says, you have a moral responsibility to your neighbours not to harm their interests. The law is not a substitute for morality.


As you've probably read from my earlier replies… I really am on your side. But….

I have a feeling you'll be waiting a LONG time if you continue to leave the solution in the hands of the OP.

The law is on his/her side.

Although I do agree completely that morally he/she leaves a lot to be desired, that doesn't change the fact that legally he/she is well within their rights to allow their cat outdoor access.

I think if he/she had felt a moral obligation to you and the rest of your neighbours, we'd have heard about it by now.

However, the OP's selfishness is obviously having a very negative effect on your own cat's physical and mental health. And that must come before "who's right and who's not" and "who should have to keep their cat in".

Could you not just cat proof your garden so this bully-cat can't get into your garden?

I have cat proofed mine in that manner, although for completely different reasons (I foster shelter cats who often have ringworm, earmite and other contagious diseases. These shelter cats have their own cat run in my garden, and I want to make sure no other neighbourhood cats can come into my garden and contract any nasties from my fosters).

I know this would cost you work and money and that's not exactly fair. But I am looking at this purely from your cat's point of view.

I said this earlier to the OP: I don't understand him/her that he/she lets such an aggressive cat wander around freely to terrorize the neighbourhood… but in the same vein I really don't understand you (or your other neighbours) either. By reading this thread it's pretty obvious this problem hasn't just popped up in the last couple of weeks, it's been ongoing for a while. You can sit back and hope and the neighbour does the right thing, or you can take matters into your own hands and ensure his cat doesn't come into your garden, and that your cat can have safe outside access. I am scared if you don't take matters in to your own hands and stop his cat getting in to your garden that a stressy-cat will be the least of your worries. If this agreesive cat is half as bad as you say, a serious beating up is more than a possibility. It's likely!

It's not fair that the onus should fall on you to cat proof your garden, no…. but _it is a solution you have the power to make_. _You don't have the power to make the neighbour keep his/her cat in_. And being powerless to ensure my cats' safety would drive me insane. However pi$$ed off I felt about having to foot the bill for cat-proofing because of someone else's bully cat... I would never expose my cats to this level of risk.


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

I daresay that would suit the cat owner, BUT have ALL our cats and gardens got to be fenced in because of the one?! I don't think so!

Timunator...I will say that I sympathise with you in that you probably got a Bengal not knowing how aggressive they can be. I could have done the same thing myself. They look lovely on the web-sites. My first cat was an interesting cat, a cross Aby, and he was just wonderful. But I wouldn't have known anything of Aby character until I had him. I am sure your Lola is much loved and interesting at home. But unfortunately she is making our lives a misery.
It simply isn't fair on us to let her run free. Our cats won't be unique in being attacked by her. There will be others we don't know about. I understand that before she came here she had a record ...just heresay, but seems awfully likely to be true. Please try to see our point of view. We are not ganging up against you...we are all very concerned for our animals. 
I suspect you are all out a lot and that maybe a large part of the problem.


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## Parallax (Oct 16, 2010)

enthusiast said:


> Cats in the UK are classified as free-roaming animals which aren't covered by legislation. Poisoning cats and receiving threatening letters is illegal but wholesome letters are ok.


I disagree. Victims of this bengal should get advice from a solicitor and use the new neighbourhood act. It is something to do with the right to have an undisturbed life.

See "Article 8 - other uses:"

"Respect for private and family life, home and correspondence: ... A right to peaceful and undisturbed enjoyment of that home ..."

It seems a cat breaking into homes, causing eight neighbours distress etc harming property infringes those rights.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

enthusiast said:


> I daresay that would suit the cat owner, BUT have ALL our cats and gardens got to be fenced in because of the one?! I don't think so!


That's a bit like saying it's so unfair that we all have to put locks on our doors just because a tiny percentage of the population are thieves. It's the way the world is...

I was just thinking of your cat. I am as stubborn and pig headed as they come, but I would never allow my cat to suffer in this way, even if the moral responsibility did lie with my neighbours. Ultimately my cats' welfare is my responsibility.

When everything else is said and done, surely your cat's health & wellbeing is more important that who is actually right?

You can take matters into your own hands (swallow your pride and dip into your pocket) and ensure your cat's mental and physical wellbeing by cat proofing your garden - or you can carry on hoping your neighbours do the right thing and keep their cat inside. I just like to be in control of my own life and not be dependant upon others "doing the right thing" and that's why I would take them out of the equation.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Parallax said:


> I disagree. Victims of this bengal should get advice from a solicitor and use the new neighbourhood act. It is something to do with the right to have an undisturbed life.
> 
> See "Article 8 - other uses:"
> 
> ...


I have only looked very briefly, but it seems to me this article 8 is more to do with protecting individuals human rights against interference from the state.

I can see this act would definitely help me if I was getting discriminated against for being gay, or if my local council was thinking of building a nuclear plant at the end of my street.... but I really can find anything on where it deals with trivial neighbourhood disputes like bully cats.

But of course I wish you all the best of luck using it to get some tranquility in your neighbourhood and some safety for your cats.

Your rights - Article 8-the right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence

*"Article 8-the right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence*

The Nature of the Article 8 Rights

_Article 8 offers general protection for a person's private and family life, home and correspondence from arbitrary interference by the State. This right affects a large number of areas of life ranging from surveillance to sexual identity - it is framed extremely broadly. Respect for private life includes a right to develop one's own personality, as well as to create relationships with others. For example, Article 8 has been critical in providing basic protection for the rights of homosexual and transsexual people. It has also been used to extend protection to a person's office space as well as his or her domestic home. More recently, in the English and Welsh courts, it has been recognised that a right of privacy may be enjoyed by a company as well as an individual.

Protection of private life and the home may also be relevant to decisions made in planning and environmental contexts. Permitting the carrying out of an unpleasant development nearby your home, for example a nuclear plant or waste site, which will severely affect your enjoyment of your property may be an interference with your rights under Article 8."_


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

timunator said:


> Hi,
> . Cats need sun, exercise and freedom so during evenings the cat will be indoors.
> Thks,
> The Timunator


Hi Timunator,

I breed bengals, and they have got the ability to be highly territorial,you are right to have your views that cats need sun,excercise.

However freedom is a different kettle of fish when it comes to a bengal, you have to think slightly differently especially if it is highly territorial.Bengals are highly muscular compared to most domestic moggies so any dispute over territory is slightly in favour of your bengal.

It would be like putting Mike tyson in a garden with the man of the Mr muscle advert.Not exactly a fair fight,unless he sprays the oven cleaner in his eyes:lol::lol:

I have some very detailed plans for building cat runs with accomodation,so if it is raining it would have shade/shelter they are big enough to cater for your bengals exercise,my bengals love them and on hot days they can sunbath to there hearts content, it will relief your cats and neighbours stress.

They can be built relatively cheaply, by anyone with basic Diy knowledge and if the posts are right should be no problem for a builder. If you Pm me I will send you the designs on a couple of emails,they have diagrams,photos and instructions.I have sent them to other forum members and they are really easy to follow.

I can send the plans to any of you neighbours too, if you like.

Sometimes Pet ownership is about compromise


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## timunator (Oct 14, 2010)

Parallax said:


> I disagree. Victims of this bengal should get advice from a solicitor and use the new neighbourhood act. It is something to do with the right to have an undisturbed life.
> 
> See "Article 8  other uses:"
> 
> ...


Hi,

I'll be smiling when my cat is the UK's first ASBO Cat. She'll have be a celebrity.


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## timunator (Oct 14, 2010)

enthusiast said:


> I appreciate that this is a bore and not _convenient _for you, but whatever the law says, you have a moral responsibility to your neighbours not to harm their interests. The law is not a substitute for morality.


Morality is how each individual has its own principals, virtues and ethics rather than pious visions crusading against irreverent savages. I've already asked to reduce the cats behaviour by keeping inside during the evenings and a feline behavioural specialist but won't put it in a cage. That is immoral. I am concerned that upstanding citizens are spending more time on the internet looking for trouble rather than reality. I'll see you at the pub.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

timunator said:


> Morality is how each individual has its own principals, virtues and ethics rather than pious visions crusading against irreverent savages. I've already asked to reduce the cats behaviour by keeping inside during the evenings and a feline behavioural specialist *but won't put it in a cage. That is immoral.* I am concerned that upstanding citizens are spending more time on the internet looking for trouble rather than reality. I'll see you at the pub.


I'm afraid you're wrong. What is immoral is allowing your cat to roam freely knowing how highly strung it is. It doesn't matter when you let your cat out, I'm sure there will be unsuspecting moggies somewhere for it to terrorise.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

ok i'm going to try and put some things clear.


I think instead of the section 8 I'm not sure would apply, however it "may" be possible for prosecution under a statutory nuisance. Under the environmental protection act a statutory nuisance can be brought against the owner of an animal who's behaviour constitutes either a threat to health or its behaviour interfeers with the everyday life of other people.

Cat owners have certainly been prosecuted before for times when cat faeces have got out of hand in others (or even their own) gardens. It doesnt take much of a stretch of the imagination to find someone who says they are affraid of your cat when it comes into their house.

______________

Further

Cats are shot and poisoned every day by disgruntled neighbours. Whilst i find this abhorrent i can understand some of the thought processes behind it, and when an owner fails to take responsibility of their pet then it only takes one person to snap.

The cats owner then is saddled with the burden of proof. You have to proove that the poisoning or shooting was intentional, and not accidental. There is nothing to prevent a neighbour defending themselves by saying they were putting out rat poison for vermin. See where i am going with this?

Whilst your trying to prove the situation, your cat is dead.

Surely you can see that you DO have to take responsibility for your cats actions. Yes perhaps a shift system will work, taking it in turns for yours and neighbours cats to have access to sunshine, however it would be much much easier to build a run or cat proof your garden.

For some reason too, people are under the misaprehension that cats are defined only as wild animals. This is certainly not the case, the protection of animals act defines cats as domestic animals.


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## timunator (Oct 14, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> ok i'm going to try and put some things clear. Cat owners have certainly been prosecuted before for times when cat faeces have got out of hand in others (or even their own) gardens.


What a load of faeces. Dogs and foxes leave deposits above the ground but cas always leave underground. Google it.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

timunator said:


> What a load of faeces. Dogs and foxes leave deposits above the ground but cas always leave underground. Google it.


lmfao!

i suggest you google it, there have been a number of successful prosecutions. 

Oh and for the record not all cats bury their crap. Buried crap doesnt make it more or less of a nuisance either!


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## sarahdisco (Jan 4, 2010)

billyboysmammy said:


> lmfao!
> 
> i suggest you google it, there have been a number of successful prosecutions.
> 
> Oh and for the record not all cats bury their crap. Buried crap doesnt make it more or less of a nuisance either!


I agree. Our cats don't go out but the garden has a regular clean due to the amount of unburied cat business. Many cats do bury but not all do.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

timunator said:


> What a load of faeces. Dogs and foxes leave deposits above the ground but cas always leave underground. Google it.


Your attitude, and your lack of knowledge, really make me feel sorry for your neighbours. Why would we have to Google it? We are all experienced, realistic cat owners dealing with the reality of looking after our pets rather than some theory to be found online.
Timunator...you came on here asking for advice and many people--including some experts in the Bengal breed--have taken the time and effort to give you that advice.
You have taken on a breed of cat which is extremely strong and intelligent, with an inbred territorial instinct. This fact does not make either you or the poor cat out to be bad....the fault lies with your inability to accept that *you* are failing to provide a safe environment for that animal, even though it sounds as if the task of cat proofing a sizeable garden space would be relatively simple for you and your family.


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## AnnaK (Aug 25, 2010)

It seems that a lot of kind and knowledgeable people have taken the time to give advice to the OP.

After reading his/her replies I am not sure that the OP really wanted advice, rather they just wanted to be told that they are right, in fact there increasingly flippant replies confirm this for me.

I am sorry for your neighbours Timunator and for your cat and theirs and I am glad I do not live near you.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

AnnaK said:


> It seems that a lot of kind and knowledgeable people have taken the time to give advice to the OP.
> 
> After reading his/her replies I am not sure that the OP really wanted advice, rather they just wanted to be told that they are right, in fact there increasingly flippant replies confirm this for me.
> 
> I am sorry for your neighbours Timunator and for your cat and theirs and I am glad I do not live near you.


I agree, not one piece of advice has it appears to have even been thought about. I do feel the post was an attempt to drum up support and not a plea for help as it first appeared.



timunator said:


> I'll be smiling when my cat is the UK's first ASBO Cat. She'll have be a celebrity.




Perhaps the smile will not be present when she dies on the road after being "accidentally" run over or dies in agony after being poisoned or is hit by a large blunt object. The neighbours appear concerned enough to appeal to you, your obvious lack of response and flippancy will result eventually in someone cracking. It will be your cat that suffers.


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

AnnaK said:


> After reading his/her replies I am not sure that the OP really wanted advice, rather they just wanted to be told that they are right, in fact there increasingly flippant replies confirm this for me.


Spot on!

It makes no sense asking for advice, then disregarding it all  
The OP has already made their mind up that they're in the right. OP live with what you think. Don't waste people's time and good nature when you have no intention of taking opinions/advice on board. People using this forum have cats best interests at heart. this has been displayed with the the amount of replies you have had, which you've chosen to ignore; showing that perhaps this is all about you, not the wellbeing of your cat?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

AnnaK said:


> It seems that a lot of kind and knowledgeable people have taken the time to give advice to the OP.
> 
> After reading his/her replies I am not sure that the OP really wanted advice, rather they just wanted to be told that they are right


I have come to the conclusion this is par for the course on the petforums. So many people come on asking questions... but when they get honest replies instead of out and out support, they tend to chuck the dummy out of the pram and get all stroppy.

No wonder cats get poisoned when they have owners like the OP.


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## Philski (May 28, 2010)

AnnaK said:


> I am sorry for your neighbours Timunator and for your cat and theirs and I am glad I do not live near you.


Unfortunately, having read through this thread, I think I _do_ live near this dangerous cat and it's horror-owner:



timunator said:


> Also, won't input a bionic wifi skype camera catseye and cause problems as Clapham is known as Nappy Valley not Death Valley.


I haven't come across a problem Bengal local to me, but in the light of what I have read I would trap the thing and turn it into the RSPCA like a shot (although I think that the OP's forum name is a feeble attempt at provocation, and that there is a bit of a wind-up going on here).


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## groundhogdaze (Nov 12, 2009)

As most people who Ive debated with on this forum over the indoor/outdoor argument will know I've always advocated that cats should be allowed out with plenty of freedom and the risks and responsibilities that go with it. I have a female MC so she's a fairly big animal but for all that when we first let her out she was bullied unmercifully by a large tom from a few doors down. 

I lost count of the amount of times she came hurtling through the door to get away from him. It did get to the stage where I used to "escort" her out and kept a bottle of water handy to shoo the offender away. Things have improved greatly in that the offending tom very rarely comes into our garden now and if he does he's invariably the one who ends up doing a runner as Minxy now stands her ground and is more than capable of looking after herself. Her relationship with other neighbourhood cats is I hope "normal" in that there are a half a dozen cats in the area and I have witnessed many "mexican stand-offs" :lol: in communal areas which can last hours without any cat getting hurt but can get noisy when one breaks cover for home but they seem to respect each others "immediate" territory.

I'll accept the potential for injuries as a result of normal cat behaviour. I wouldn't accept a cat going round doing severe physical harm to my cat in it's own home/garden on a regular basis (and if the shoe was on the other foot I'd find a way of preventing my cat from doing the same to other cats) and attacking it the way this Bengal is. 

Minxy is a member of my family and would be protected as such. If I had tried all diplomatic ways of getting the other owner to curtail the threat from there cat and they ignored those requests in the way you do Timunator then I'm sorry to say that without harming your cat I would find a way of removing the problem. I think you should seriously consider building a fence to keep your cat in it's own garden or re-home it before someone else does it for you.


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## ebonymagic (Jun 18, 2010)

How come the OP doesn't answer any of the helpful posts


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

ebonymagic said:


> How come the OP doesn't answer any of the helpful posts


In simple terms bad attitude,combined with spitting her dummy out.


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## Izzie999 (Nov 27, 2008)

timunator said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'll be smiling when my cat is the UK's first ASBO Cat. She'll have be a celebrity.


I don't think its particularly amusing actually! I think your lack of regard for your neighbours upset is really disgusting!

She is your cat,she needs a secure garden so that your neighbours can allow their cats out without fear of attack. One day she will come home and may need an eye removed because its been clawed by another cat. Or she could get bitten by a new cat to the neighbourhood with Felv! If nothing else think about your cat and the injuries she is receiving. Unless you take these attacks seriously it will probably end very badly for your cat.

Izzie


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

ebonymagic said:


> How come the OP doesn't answer any of the helpful posts


lol, that's just what some people do on the petforum. They ask a question. But they don't really want our opinions. Their opinions are already formed and they just want our unwavering support and for us to confirm their course of action is the right one.... for us to say things like "Oh gee what horrible neighbours you have, you let your loevly wee Bengal out and to hell with those interfering neighbours of yours".


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## SuperCat86 (Jul 20, 2010)

:O I've just read through this post and feel a bit annoyed that all you lovely people have ended up wasting your time trying to help some one who clearly never had any intention of taking your advice...I too am very sorry for this person's neighbours and all the cats who are going to continue to suffer until the owner can discuss resolving the issue like an adult.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2010)

Tje said:


> I really don't want to be the harbinger of doom…. but do bear in mind when neighbourhood disputes arise around cats, this is often when poison is put down to "cure" that problem.


Petal's sister Roisin, was poisioned. And we know who by, just cannot prove it.

Back on topic, we have a fully male Bengal who comes into our garden, and he is a swine as he fights with another cat (this is a stray) we called Voo-Dee-Doo. He is owned as well, just don't know who by. Luckily Voo-Dee-Doo is a big black tom cat, and can stand his ground.

On a legal note (I have been through this with the nextdoor drunkard) you have a responsibilty to keep *YOUR* animal under control. As far as I can see, in my eyes, you do not really give two hoots about your cat. Therefore your neighbours have every *RIGHT* to make a complaint. They have a right to live peacefully without the hassle of someone else's pet causing un-due stress.

Have I missed it, but is this cat been neutered at all? If a cat came into my garden and started to pick a fight with either Socks or Petal, I would not be too amused.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I find this thread shocking... Someone comes on asking for advice and is given it.. Keep your cat in.. It is not fair on your neighbors having to put up with the behavior from your cat...

Your neighbours seem nice and they have offered resolution ideas... 

Now I love cats but what would happen in a rash moment, say your cat was attacking another and someone acted without thinking and give it a quick boot.. It happens... 

You need to start thinking for the good of your cat and stop being so bloody pig headed... At the end of the day you all have to live together.. Sounds like you need to grow up...


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## Philski (May 28, 2010)

I agree absolutely. Re-reading the original post, I suspect that the OP wanted advice on how to get his/her neighbours off their back whilst allowing the cat to continue to roam free.

Although I live close to where this is happening, I've been told that I am at a safe distance, fortunately. There are several cats that roam in my area, and there are occasional territorial spats - Mexican stand-offs with three cats all eying each other from a distance, to quite noisy confrontations resulting in the occasional scratch (not on mine luckily - they tend to leg it indoors at the first sign of trouble!). I feel this is a tolerable level of confrontation.

However, what is happening here is way beyond acceptable in my opinion. I sympathise with Bengal breeders and owners, the overwhelming majority of whom breed/have friendly and non-aggressive cats; however, I hope that they wouldn't disagree that the tiny percentage of super-aggressive Bengals need to treated differently to 'normal' cats (and this also goes for any other dangerous moggie, really - I don't want to single out Bengals, but it's unfortunate that there have been a few similar stories relating to the breed).

It is entirely the owner's responsibility to sort this out - as mentioned by many before me, I'm worried that the neighbours' patience will run out, or even worse, one of their cats is killed, and they will take matters into their own hands. If it were me, and if this were to continue, then I wouldn't hesitate to call the RSPCA and arrange a visit.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> say your cat was attacking another and someone acted without thinking and give it a quick boot.. It happens...


oh YES it happens indeed!! Though a quick boot would be the least of my worries... what if the neighbours poisened or shot the troublesome cat, or stuck it in a cat-carrier and drove it 100 miles away before releasing it to fend for itsself, or deliberatly ran it over or... ??? the options for knocking off a torublesome cat are frankly many.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Bengal Cat Rescue and Rehoming UK Bengals as Pets
If this has already been posted I apologise but I think for anyone not familiar with this breed then perhaps once they have read this it will on many points show what living with an aggressive bengal could be like.I am well aware that the majority of bengals are perfectly,well balanced,family pets,but there are those who are either badly bred,or in the wrong ownership.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Thanks for that link Buffie, very interesting indeed and sheds a lot of light on the situation being discussed here.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I think If you talked to Bengal breeders and owners they would have a lot to say about Ms Connelly.


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## Sparkles87 (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks for the link Buffie, very interesting and helpful for somebody who knows very little like myself 
I posted once and have followed this thread since and don't think much else is left to be said to Timunator, and certainly no more advice to be given as he/she doesn't show the slightest interest in it anyway. 
If this was happening in my area and William was an outdoor cat meaning he was getting hurt mentally and physically, I would definitely be phoning the RSPCA to arrange a visit and keeping him in until I knew something had been resolved. I'm hoping one of the neighbours does this or constructs their own cat run (as suggested by Tje) before any of the cats get seriously damaged or killed, or the neighbours snap and do something dangerous or harmful to the bengal. 
It is unfortunate that Timunator has the bengal who could no doubt could be a beautiful loving indoor cat, or cat with supervised outdoor access (run, catproofing garden etc). It appears that he/she is pig-headed and ignorant and can't handle being given correct advice by people who know what they're talking about (you guys)

*Sigh....*


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I take it from that remark you dispute what she has to say.This is a question for Lauren 001.I should have included a "quote"


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Tje said:


> oh YES it happens indeed!! Though a quick boot would be the least of my worries... what if the neighbours poisened or shot the troublesome cat, or stuck it in a cat-carrier and drove it 100 miles away before releasing it to fend for itsself, or deliberatly ran it over or... ??? the options for knocking off a torublesome cat are frankly many.


I used to have a cat that terrorised the neighbours and their dogs, he was a white cat used to sit on our 6' wall jump off onto neighbours heads and then there dogs... Apparently neighbours started crossing the road.. he vanished for a few days and came back dragging a leg.. Vet believed he had been booted that hard his leg had dislocated.. As no signs of an RTA...

Anyway we didn't know much of the problem till this happened then he vanished for ever a few weeks later... I can only imagine he was got rid of... And after that did people start to talk how he had gone and thank goodness... He was an angel with my dogs..

This all happened when I was a child..


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## Sparkles87 (Aug 30, 2010)

Well if any of the owners you refer to are like Timunator then I can safely assert then the majority of people would have no interest in what they've got to say. Especially if it's a lot!!


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

buffie said:


> I take it from that remark you dispute what she has to say.This is a question for Lauren 001.I should have included a "quote"


I do think that what she has to say is actually very relevant to some Bengals. 
I know she is not at all popular in the Bengal community.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Very interesting link Buffie thanks for posting it. 

I particularly liked reading (sorry, liked is the wrong word was informative reading) that Bengals have actually killed other cats in situations like this one. Hopefully the OP will read the bit about 2 separate Bengal owners having the police turn up at their door because of their cats behavior. I didnt actually think the police would get involved with something (relatively trivial) like a bully-cat but it just shows that they do. Maybe its time that the OPs neighbours called the police. 

Not knowing the breed at all, I was very much on the fence about what we were hearing in this post, was this cats aggression as bad as we were hearing well this Bengal rescue website seems to confirm that indeed this kind of bahviour in Bengals is far from unknown.

(All the usual disclaimers about me not talking about well bred & well socialized Bengals, who are rehomed with knowledgeable, willing and caring owners). 

I would say all kittens have the potential to turn into right little horrors when theyre not bred and socialized properly and then rehomed with the wrong type of people however if all these factors are in place with the Bengal (uncaring kitten farmer only in it for the money, poor or no socialization then rehomed with total idiots) then the potential for having a REAL problem cat on your hands is so much higher then with a regular moggy.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

buffie said:


> I take it from that remark you dispute what she has to say.This is a question for Lauren 001.I should have included a "quote"


I dispute what she says, unfortunately its like many pets dont blame the pet blame the owner.

I breed bengals and none of my have the traits mentioned by her they are not agressive and love to be handled. They make fantastic pets.

Yes they can be terrotorial with other cats,but so can domestic moggies,or any cat really its an instinctual thing,more than a breed specific.

But if you have an owner who thinks its going to be great to get a cat with an Asbo what can you say,its not the bengals fault.

This is Oscar his best friend is Aiden,he sleeps on his bed every night and is not agressive in the slightest because he has been raised and socialised correctly.

I understand that there are bengals in rescue centres,but I bet if you compared them as a whole of cats in rescue centres they would only make up a small percentage, it really boils down to irresponsible owners,its the same with dogs,and other pets.I know some cats are there for other reasons.
.

Its easy to write an essay and say its because this pet is this or that,but the harsh reality is its 9 times out of ten its the owners fault not the pet.It was the same withh the staffordshire bull terrier it got a really bad reputation but again this was based on a specific type of owner,raising it badly.

But thats my opinion and others might well see it differently.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> I do think that what she has to say is actually very relevant to some Bengals.
> I know she is not at all popular in the Bengal community.


well I am not always popular with the "awww I'll just let my 6month old queen have one litter of cute kittens cos she escaped out my front door when I wasn't looking and she was in season at the time" brigade .... but it doesn't mean what I say against "breeders" like this isn't true. It just means it's unpopular as the "cute kitten" brigade don't want to hear the harsh reality.

Can you elaborate at all if Mrs Connelly is unpopular purely because she is pointing out true but harsh realities of the breed... or is she unpopular because she is basically full of $hit about the breed?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> Its easy to write an essay and say its because this pet is this or that,but the harsh reality is its 9 *times out of ten its the owners fault not the pet*.It was the same withh the staffordshire bull terrier it got a really bad reputation but again this was based on a specific type of owner,raising it badly.


that's was kind of the conclusion I was coming to on my own... the Bengal might have more potential to be dangerous than a regular moggy when the Xs are put in the boxes next to bad breeding, poor socialisation, and bad or uncaring owners.

Indeed much like the Staffy... if I had the choice between meetting a poorly bred, poorly socialised and poorly kept and trained staffy or poodle... I would choose the poorly trained poodle any day, lol.

But indeed I do agree with you that almost all of the time it's the humans behind these "problem animals" that are the actual problem.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Tje said:


> Can you elaborate at all if Mrs Connelly is unpopular purely because she is pointing out true but harsh realities of the breed... or is she unpopular because she is basically full of $hit about the breed?


She is unpopular because she is genralising about the breed, yes their are bad breeders as with any breed, and bad owners again with any breed.

But to say the breed is the way she portrays it is completely blown way out of proportion,scare mongering because she sees them in rescue centres

Like i said previously blame the owners and Byb not the pets and certainly not the breed.


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## DebbieC (Dec 19, 2009)

Tje said:


> well I am not always popular with the "awww I'll just let my 6month old queen have one litter of cute kittens cos she escaped out my front door when I wasn't looking and she was in season at the time" brigade .... but it doesn't mean what I say against "breeders" like this isn't true. It just means it's unpopular as the "cute kitten" brigade don't want to hear the harsh reality.
> 
> Can you elaborate at all if Mrs Connelly is unpopular purely because she is pointing out true but harsh realities of the breed... or is she unpopular because she is basically full of $hit about the breed?


Actually it's Connolly....
I've owned and rescued Bengals for many years and was invited to help Bengal Cat Rescue because I could help the cats handed in because of aggression and other issues. I can often stop a cat ending up in rescue because I have a lot of success in sovling the territory problems. I do get abuse from breeders, very occasionally owners, but it doesn't stop me helping what I see as an amazing but sometimes difficult breed.

I've still got two cases to go and assess this month, both have been "attacking" neighbours cats, both owners have paid vet bills and just want to sort it out. They have both been referred to their breeders and vets before I agreed to go see them.

I've met some great breeders, choosing owners carefully and making sure a Bengal suits and yes, just like dogs lots buy because they like the look and there are people only too willing to sell including a recent case of a breeding queen sold for £2,000 to people who hadn't ever owned any cat never mind a Bengal.

I could list this months cases or quote all the lovely people I have worked with or get the rescue to comment but there's no point. I have been accused of hating the breed, of not owning any, of making up problems as if that means I'll get more work because I'll hypnotise people into imagining problems? All not true, but sadly oft repeated.

I hope, as I do with all of them that this owner asks for and gets suitable help, where I've managed to speak to neighbours and get their help I've had the most success.

Debbie C


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

DebbieC said:


> Actually it's Connolly....
> I've owned and rescued Bengals for many years and was invited to help Bengal Cat Rescue because I could help the cats handed in because of aggression and other issues. I can often stop a cat ending up in rescue because I have a lot of success in sovling the territory problems. I do get abuse from breeders, very occasionally owners, but it doesn't stop me helping what I see as an amazing but sometimes difficult breed.
> 
> I've still got two cases to go and assess this month, both have been "attacking" neighbours cats, both owners have paid vet bills and just want to sort it out. They have both been referred to their breeders and vets before I agreed to go see them.
> ...


I take it you are Mrs Connolly.... You know A lot of people have a ot to say on a situ they dont actually know about.. and if you help these cats and know what methods to use then so be it... Good luck.. xxx


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## DebbieC (Dec 19, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> I take it you are Mrs Connolly.... You know A lot of people have a ot to say on a situ they dont actually know about.. and if you help these cats and know what methods to use then so be it... Good luck.. xxx


Thanks, yes I am Debbie Connolly. Two new Bengals have just come in for rescue, only a year old and lovely, can't see them staying long, there are a few vetted homes waiting. One is blue spotted, I'm a bit tempted myself.

edited as can't spell blue


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

very very interesting Debbie C (and sorry for misspelling your surname). I must say you do have my sympathy. I know how I get knocked in daily life for pointing out shortcomings in dodgey cat owners or dodgey breeders but I always try to bear in mind that I am more interested in feline welfare than I am in winning popularity contests. I can only imagine with the Bengal being a breed with more *potential* for problems (when all the bad boxes are ticked), that you encounter a lot more hassle than I ever will. Lets face it, no one can really argue that there is a moggie over-population problem. And also the sums of money that pass through hands for (some) Bengals is something I dont have to deal with -- thank god. All the best with your efforts!!

(and thanks for actually taking the time and effort to reply in a thread where your integrity is/was coming into question... that takes bottle!!)


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi Debbie c,

I still dont see what you see, the breed still makes fantastic pets, yes they can be terrotorial and I have never disputed this, however properly socialised and raised correctly they make fantastic pets.

The problem ones probably make up a small percentage of the population, have you any figures to say how many are problems vs how many that are,nt

Do you also have any figures for the same comparison for other breeds or moggies with simalar behaviour problems.

Without these figures you can not, then generalise your findings, yes there are problem issues or behaviour issues with certain cats/breeds but for everyone that is there are hundreds of properly raised and socilaised animals putting smiles on peoples faces.


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## DebbieC (Dec 19, 2009)

Tje said:


> very very interesting Debbie C (and sorry for misspelling your surname). I must say you do have my sympathy. I know how I get knocked in daily life for pointing out shortcomings in dodgey cat owners or dodgey breeders but I always try to bear in mind that I am more interested in feline welfare than I am in winning popularity contests. I can only imagine with the Bengal being a breed with more *potential* for problems (when all the bad boxes are ticked), that you encounter a lot more hassle than I ever will. Lets face it, no one can really argue that there is a moggie over-population problem. And also the sums of money that pass through hands for (some) Bengals is something I dont have to deal with -- thank god. All the best with your efforts!!
> 
> (and thanks for actually taking the time and effort to reply in a thread where your integrity is/was coming into question... that takes bottle!!)


Thanks, I don't usually bother, but I've lurked on this forum and occasionally posted for a long time and I like it. I recommend it to a lot of people as the advice is generally balanced and in favour of responsible ownership and breeding which I too want to promote.

I don't want to hijack this, it is about a person asking for advice and hopefully they will listen, I can't imagine her cat is entirely happy either.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> She is unpopular because she is genralising about the breed, yes their are bad breeders as with any breed, and bad owners again with any breed.
> 
> But to say the breed is the way she portrays it is completely blown way out of proportion,scare mongering because she sees them in rescue centres
> 
> Like i said previously blame the owners and Byb not the pets and certainly not the breed.


to be fair though TT.... I didn't feel Debbie C was generalising about the breed on her resuce website. More just pointing out that the bengal can be "higher maintenance" breed (especially if all the "bad boxes" have an X next to them. Bad breeders, poor socialisation, stupid or inexperienced owners). I felt she had a genuine love for the breed.

Like I said ealrier.... if I have to have a meeting with an out of control (poorly bred/poorly socialised/poorly trained) dog down a dark alley one night.... I would rather it was a poodle than a staffy.

The potential for damage to me is higher with a flakey staffy than a flakey poodle... and I am guessing the same is true with a flakey bengal compared to a flakey moggy.

However that is not detracting from the fact that owners & breeders are always the root of these problems, with dogs & cats.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

When I posted the link it was meant purely to show that it is actually possible for "a " bengal to be capable of the kind of behaviour being discussed.I am in no way saying that it is typical of the breed,but if the breeding behind it is poor,or it is in the wrong hands a cat with the ability to show this type of aggression can and has been lethal.


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## DebbieC (Dec 19, 2009)

tellingtails said:


> Hi Debbie c,
> 
> I still dont see what you see, the breed still makes fantastic pets, yes they can be terrotorial and I have never disputed this, however properly socialised and raised correctly they make fantastic pets.
> 
> ...


Unless somebody sees every Bengal in the country then that argument goes both ways. I don't get asked to deal with the same types of problems in any other breeds or Moggies but maybe that's a bit like asking a Ford garage which type of cars need fixing the most. They'll say Ford, I say Bengals because it what I see, rescue, live with and treat the most, new ones every week.

The rescue asked me to add information because they felt it was important for people to know the reason most were coming into rescue and why. They wanted people to know the potential problems and be sure this breed was for them.

This thread is about a specific case which I hope does have a positive resolution for the Bengal and the neighbours.

edited to correct spelling of reason and to say it isn't my rescue, I'm their behaviour consultant and foster, give advice


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

> Debbie Connolly
> Their commonest problems are aggression and spraying - Bengal Cat Rescue and Rehoming UK


I think if you look at the behaviour page of the Bengal cat forum, they do appear to be recurring problems, amongst those who *are* having behavioural problems, I must add.
Bengal Cat Forums :: View Forum - Behavior


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

DebbieC I apologise if by posting the link I have caused any upset.


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## Philski (May 28, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> I still dont see what you see, the breed still makes fantastic pets, yes they can be terrotorial and I have never disputed this, however properly socialised and raised correctly they make fantastic pets.
> 
> Do you also have any figures for the same comparison for other breeds or moggies with simalar behaviour problems.


You beat me to it on this one. Here's a question:

If a Bengal kitten and a moggie kitten were brought up together, in an imperfect way (poorly socialised, etc, etc), might they both turn out to exhibit the same levels of aggression? Or is the Bengal more/less susceptible to become aggressive?

It's a question that probably can't be answered, short of some extremely unethical experimentation; however, the _impression_ I get is that Bengals are reported as being aggressive more than any other breed (but I'm at the mercy of whatever the media feeds me). I can totally understand ethical Bengal breeders being up in arms at such a suggestion - but I do also have a feeling that if any cat is mistreated in some way, a Bengal is one of the breeds that is more susceptible to turn aggressive as a result.

There - said it. Give me a second while I put on my flack jacket...


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## DebbieC (Dec 19, 2009)

buffie said:


> DebbieC I apologise if by posting the link I have caused any upset.


Don't worry, I'm not upset. Nothing to apologise for. As I keep saying, I just hope this case works out for them all.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Tje said:


> However that is not detracting from the fact that owners & breeders are always the root of these problems, with dogs & cats.


Whilst she is not exactly generalising her article is worded in such a way to make out the breed has a high chance of being a handful,ask any reputable breeder of bengals and it just is not the case.

I am sorry but like I said show me figures and facts of problem bengals vs good bengals, problem bengals vs domestic moggies, problem bengals vs ferral cats.

without these figures how can you say they have the potential to be anything.

The reason for her dislike amongst the bengal community is for this reason.

It is in her interests to say this breed is this and that,she makes a living from putting the problem right,that poor owners have created.

Debbie Connolly as seen BBC3 "Dog Borstal" and in "Dogs Today" Magazine,

Discounts available to owners of cats adopted from Bengal Cat Rescue


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## DebbieC (Dec 19, 2009)

Good luck to the OP, I hope they do take some advice on board. I have to go collect a cat and dog and do a homecheck so I'm off. There's a Bengal in Battersea been homed 3 times, if anyone knows of an experienced home, please refer them to Battersea, I've suggested him to several that are looking for one.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Thanks for the imput Debbie C, I take it you have no figures to back up your findings then


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> Whilst she is not exactly generalising her article is worded in such a way to make out the breed has a high chance of being a handful,ask any reputable breeder of bengals and it just is not the case.


I didnt read it that way at all . I read it more about potentials in the wrong hands (or like I put it, when all the bad boxes are ticked the potential for problems increases).



tellingtails said:


> I am sorry but like I said show me figures and facts of problem bengals vs good bengals, problem bengals vs domestic moggies, problem bengals vs ferral cats.


yeah but in all fairness any breed rescue are only going to have the stats for that one breed. And if its moggies were talking about then a general shelter/rescue org will know those stats. Well actually I doubt they will as who would be collating all this info ???? But the point still remains an expert on the Persian breed isnt an expert on Main Coons that doesnt detract though that they do know their own breeds.



tellingtails said:


> without these figures how can you say they have the potential to be anything.


well I dont have a facts and figures on poodles versus staffys lol. But I still feel confident to say what I said earlier about which breed I would rather meet down that dark alley one night when they turn flakey. We dont really need facts and figures for some things its just obvious and plain old common sense that I can give an out of control poodle a swift kick up the arse, and (may) not be able to do that with a flakey staffy with all the wrong boxes ticked.



tellingtails said:


> The reason for her dislike amongst the bengal community is for this reason.


Ok. I can buy that. But I still cant see why. The way I read it she loves the breed. She just knows their potential (when all the "wrong boxes" are ticked)

In the same way... we had a problem in our street earlier this year with an owner of male and female pair of staffy/pitbull crosses had 4 puppies. I am no dog expert and certainly not a PB/Staffy x-expert, but I knew we were in for trouble when he started letting the two adults out unlined and unsupervised. So my predictions for the potential agression these dogs had... all came true. As I knew they were bred wrong, not socialized at all, and were left to rear themselves with ZERO stimualtion or training. And yeah of course this is a recipe for disaster with all dog breeds ... but believe me when the male staffy/PB cornered me at my car one morning .... I would much rather he had been a flakey poodle.



tellingtails said:


> It is in her interests to say this breed is this and that,she makes a living from putting the problem right,that poor owners have created.


Now this bit I do *strongly* disagree with. Thats like saying Monty Roberts (the real-life horse whisper) just made up problems with horses for his financial benefit. I dont think thats fair at all. I think this woman genuinely loves the breed and just wants to create awareness amongst inexperienced owners buying one purely because they look cute, and to point out to all of us, that not all Bengal breeders are as ethical as you are.[/QUOTE]


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

tellingtails said:


> Thanks for the imput Debbie C, I take it you have no figures to back up your findings then


I think that is an unanswerable question. Even with the Staffie problem, what are the figures for "nasty" Staffies as opposed to "good" ones. As any in rescue nowadays from what we hear, mostly get put down due to lack of homes, how will we ever know?

How many Bengals even from good breeders have issues with their owners? with other cats? how many get rehomed? how many are in rescue? how many are in behaviour therapy? how many are strays? how many disappear? how many get pts due to behavioural traits?

I do not think these figures would be available anywhere and even if they were what does that tell us about suitability of homes, is it the cats fault or the breeds fault, the breeders fault, or are they just poorly placed?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> Thanks for the imput Debbie C, I take it you have no figures to back up your findings then


TT, I have lost count of the amount of posts I have made in here about immature (7 or 8 month) old mums and how they (often, not always) make rotten mothers but to be perfectly honest I would be very hard pushed to furnish you with official statistics on that. I am basing my opinion on experience and common sense.

And you can hammer on about Debbie C not having these magic figures you want but they simply dont exist for *any* breed.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

This has just been posted thought it was relavent, I still stand by what I said previous it is more an instinctual thing to defend territory than it is a breed specific.



> barnsbury
> Pet Forums Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010
> Location: London
> Posts: 6
> ...


Yes Bengals are more likely to not back down with regards to territorial disputes, however if the bengal owner knowingly lets the cat out,despite knowing it is in frequent disputes,is it the cat fault which is doing what comes naturally,or the owners fault.

Regardless whether the its a bengal or a moggie, Siamese or a persian,all cats have the potential to fight over territory its intinctual they dont wake up in the morning have their breakfast and think I know I will go down to number 54 and bully felix today.

I am sorry if Debbie disagrees but just because a Bengal is more than likely going to win a territiorial dispute with the average moggie, does not mean it has behaviourial issues based solely because it is a bengal.

Most pet bengals are what is called F5 or F6 which means for all intense purposes their wild blood has been breed out of them,so they are more closely to a domestic cat than they are their wild relative the Asian Leopard Cat.

Any cat regardless of breed,has the potential to be a handful.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Tje said:


> TT, I have lost count of the amount of posts I have made in here about immature (7 or 8 month) old mums and how they (often, not always) make rotten mothers but to be perfectly honest I would be very hard pushed to furnish you with official statistics on that. I am basing my opinion on experience and common sense.
> 
> And you can hammer on about Debbie C not having these magic figures you want but they simply dont exist for *any* breed.


I second what you say......


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

As for the point on the figures I was mearly trying to get the point across as said previous any cat has the potential to be a handful


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

tellingtails said:


> As for the point on the figures I was mearly trying to get the point across as said previous any cat has the potential to be a handful


But the points previously made are bengals are generally bigger stronger cats!!!!!!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> Any cat regardless of breed,has the potential to be a handful.


of course, and it is the same with dogs too. I would still rather take my chances with an outa control (as outlined above) poodle/yorky/malty than with an outa control (as outlined above) staffy or pitbull.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Tje said:


> of course, and it is the same with dogs too. I would still rather take my chances with an outa control (as outlined above) poodle/yorky/malty than with an outa control (as outlined above) staffy or pitbull.


Any animal has the potential to harm its not a breed thing its a instinctual,and often too often an owner thing

Please read poodle attack

Girl, 7, Hospitalized After Poodle Attack - WBOC-TV 16, Delmarvas News Leader, FOX 21 -


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## Parallax (Oct 16, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> But the points previously made are bengals are generally bigger stronger cats!!!!!!


I agree. My neighbours Bengal who has aggression problems doesn't fight like any old moggie or any other breed I know (even a stray Tom). This cat runs straight at other cats, throws them to the ground and bites their necks. He stopped my cat breathing right in front of me. The so called normal cat fighting of hissing, growling, taking some swipes, and maybe some true combat didn't apply. The bengal then follows the cats home to continue the fighting, through cat flaps, doors and windows. He just will NOT stop or give up. This is why it doesn't surprise me if some problem bengals actually kill other cats.

So not to say all bengals are like this, another old neighbour had one who was very socialized and had none of these traits. But that owner was at home all day and even trained his bengal to walk on a lead.

But these cats are bigger, more intelligent, more muscular than others and are fearless. So add those traits with a normal cat territorial behaviour, it can add up to a toxic mix. Especially a bengal with no boundaries and who isn't socialized properly.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Tellingstails ~ a question for you ...

Do any of your Bengals go out, like a typical moggie? If not, how can you hand on heart claim that yours are not at all like the ones talked about here?

I once owned a Ginger Tom called Ginni, he was a gorgeous affectionate cat. He would sit on you for hours purring and pawing you. Sooo loving. 

A couple of months later when he was let out to explore with our other cats we discovered a whole new side to him. He terrorised all of our cats, and probably the rest on the street. We eventually had to keep him in, and he switched right back to the same soppy Ginni we had indoors to begin with.

What I'm trying to say is circumstance can change the personality of any cat.

DebbieC ~ I have utmost respect for you commenting on this thread :thumbsup:


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> Any animal has the potential to harm its not a breed thing its a instinctual,and often too often an owner thing
> 
> Please read poodle attack


TT, I have already said any cat or dog has the potential for damage or agressive behaviour, especially when poorly bred & socialized and owned/reared by the wrong people.

However you cannot deny that statistically if we line up an outa control pit bull staffy x and an out control yorky poodle x... and get a fairly inexperienced dog owner to "sort things out" that the former is a riskier prospect.

And that is all people are saying when it comes to Bengals. No one is saying Bengals are hardwired to attack. No more than any cat or dog is hardwired to attack. We are talking the potential for problems when all the bad factors line up together.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> DebbieC ~ I have utmost respect for you commenting on this thread :thumbsup:


seconded :thumbsup:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Yep 3rd... 


But its like talking to a brick wall!!!


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> I once owned a Ginger Tom called Ginni, he was a gorgeous affectionate cat. He would sit on you for hours purring and pawing you. Sooo loving.
> 
> A couple of months later when he was let out to explore with our other cats we discovered a whole new side to him. He terrorised all of our cats, and probably the rest on the street. We eventually had to keep him in, and he switched right back to the same soppy Ginni we had indoors to begin with.
> 
> :


This is my point exactly any pet cat has the potential to be a territiorial, I have never disputed that a bengal can not be territiorial or has not got the ability to be a handful.

I even said in one of my posts it is like Mike tyson having a fight with Mr Muscle of the Tv advert.And I have even said they aare more than likely going to win.

What I am trying to say it is not a breed thing,its more an instinctual thing.

And to tarnish every Bengal with the same brush,I personally think is wrong,

No my bengals do not go out,however I board cats and one of my bengals has free reign of the office and grooming parlour,he often interacts with strange cats he has never seen before,and shows them no agression.Also he has total strangers stroking him,picking him up,and also children,so I feel confident in saying its not a breed thing.

Here is an extract from Bengal cat guide - Information about bengal cats

It paints a slightly different picture of the bengals portrait by Debbie C, I respect that there are problems with bengals and I think the work she does is probably to the owners and cats she incounters a very valuable one,and I think she is one in a million to answer to the post(not many would),but as with any pet and any breed there are going to be problem cases, but my point is they will be a small percentage compared with the amount of good ones.


For all the talk you hear about the amazing beauty of the Bengal cat, you could be forgiven for assuming that a Bengal possesses normal domestic cat behaviour, just with wonderful markings as well. However, ask a Bengal owner why they bought their second Bengal (as so often happens...) and youll find out the real reason why a Bengal cat is such a wonderful addition to many homes: It is that many Bengal cats are delightful characters who light up your life with entertainment, interest and affection. Read on to find out more.....
Before we go into too much detail, it is as well to note that all cats personalities are formed by many factors, including their genetic heritage, their socialisation and living conditions when growing up, and good old random individuality! As a result there is always much more variation between individual cats than there is commonality within a given breed. That said, many breeds of cat do have commonly found characteristics which typify the breed. Siamese, Burmese and Persians in particular are all renowned for certain types of behaviour. The Bengals unique genetic heritage, and rigorous breeding programmes have produced many cats with very pronounced personalities and unusual behaviour patterns, which are as much a reason to want to own the cats as their visual appearance. I merely would like to note that this article is most definitely a personal view, based on the Bengal cats I have known, and could never describe the way every Bengal will behave!

The general personality
At the simplest level, most Bengals, have a lot of personality! In a manner similar to the oriental cat breeds, they are intelligent, lively, interactive cats, with whom you have a very genuine two-way relationship. They are typically neither an aloof cat who ignores you haughtily, nor a dull quiet cat. They are very much a dynamic and active part of the family group. Bengals however are not the same as Orientals, nor any other breed, but have various key characteristics which make very special and different.

The amazing athlete!
For 40% of the time at least, Bengals are astounding athletes. They can rush around with great glee, climb doors and cupboards, and leap to huge heights. My Bengal will land on my shoulder in a single leap from a couple of metres away, in order to assist me in any interesting activity such as answering the door, or looking in a cupboard. They will bounce about, roll around, switch lights on and off (!) and even do full somersaults whilst in high spirits. Kittens in particular can be all over the place, in a veritable stampede of spotty fluff.

When excited, they often tremble and twitch their tails, or fluff them up into a massive racoon-tail. The character displayed during these antics is often rather similar to that of Tigger in the Winnie the Pooh books - inquisitive, hyper-active, over-the-top, but very loveable with a heart of gold.

The big softy
But fear not - there is some peace to be had! Perhaps fortunately, the flip side of Bengal behaviour is that for much of the time, Bengals go to the other extreme, and become total softies. They flop over and roll on their backs in ecstasy, come up to you and nuzzle your face, purring wildly, then finally curl up into happy little balls and fall fast asleep. They genuinely crave affection and will spend many happy hours resting piled up on top of you purring. They will wake you in the night, rubbing their head against you and paddling happily on the covers with their paws, then sleep silently with you till morning. They have ridiculous stretchy moods when they roll and writhe around on their backs in a most uninhibited manner. This makes a lovely complement to the Bengals energetic moments.

Bengals and water
One of the most popular pieces of Bengal folklore involves their liking for water. Bengals have sometimes been reported to play happily in quite deep water and, even to like swimming! Well some Bengals may well do this, but if youre after a swimming cat, youd be better off with a Turkish Van. Though they arent all swimmers, most Bengals are definitely fond of water. When I bought my Bengal, the breeders commented on how he had a swishing action he used across his drinking water with his paw before drinking, which appeared to be a development of the action used by the Asian Leopard Cats in nature to clear the surface of ponds before drinking. However, once my cat discovered the mugs of water on my bedside table, this swishing became a game of totally different proportions! He gleefully splashed about in the mug with his paw, sprinkling water all around the room. A gentle rain became a fairly common feature of my nights, until he grew out of this phase!

Now he is rather more taken with the bath. If ever we go near the bathroom, he gallops into the bath and howls heartily until we turn the tap on for him, which is his cue to splash about and play in the bath water for several minutes. He also occasionally gets in the shower whilst it is running! As a cautionary note, it is important never to leave the toilet seat up in case your Bengal gets bleach poisoning, and you should never leave the bath unattended whilst running hot water in case your Bengal scalds himself.

The Bengals voice
So what does a Bengal sound like? Well in truth, they can sound like all sorts of thinks. Perhaps the most obvious noise they make is a melodic but very insistent "YOWWWLLL!!!!" when they want to draw your attention to something. Shades of YOWWWLLL will mean "open that door!", "Hello again", "FOOOD!", "turn the tap on please", and particularly loudly "LET ME OUT OF THIS CAGE!!!!". This noise varies in volume from loud to unbelievable, but is easily stopped by either giving them what they want, or making them realise it wont do them any good.

At the other end of the spectrum, Bengal purrs are laced with all manner of trills and chirrups. And they have much wider vocabulary including "Ive just seen something to chase" chatters, and even a lovely frustrated short "nya!" grumble when they cant reach something they are jumping for. I dont know how widespread this is, but my Bengal always makes a very peculiar "yoolalooolaloooowahhh" call whenever he is going to be sick, which is phenomenally useful, since it allows me to carry him to somewhere easy to clean, and to be there to soothe him if he is distressed! We call this the sofa saving call. Bengals arent especially noisy cats. They dont constantly commentate on your life like some Siamese, but they do have a varied range of outspoken calls which they use when they feel the need.

Food glorious food!
Oh yes Bengals like their food. They have to be first to get to it! The main trouble with feeding Bengals can be that they tend to climb inside the food bag before you can pour it out, and treats such as chicken pieces are carried off and guarded proudly with a low growl!

Are Bengals fierce?
Some people have assumed that wild animals are fierce, so any pet with wild blood must be more likely to be fierce. It is true that one of the differences between a domesticated animal and a wild one is its ability to interact happily with humans, though more often than not small wild cats are more likely to be scared of humans than to attack them.

However, a Bengal is not a wild animal. It is most definitely a domestic animal which has been selectively bred over several generations for character as well as appearance, and Bengals today should be no more aggressive (or defensive) than any other cat. There are reports of some difficulties with temperament very early in the Bengals development but for many years breeders have been working very hard on Bengal character, and these reports are no longer heard. You should, of course, always get to meet kittens and their parents to evaluate their character before making a purchase, as you would any other cat.

I would have no hesitation in recommending the character of Bengals today. My only note of warning is that, being so energetic, they are able to totally accidentally scratch people whilst galloping over them or jumping from them, so though this will be no problem for most cat lovers, it might be a concern if you have small children or find the occasional scratch a problem. In my experience, Bengals can be quite easily trained not to do things you dont like, simply by hissing at them to say stop. This seems a lot more effective than shouting "NO!" etc. since it is cat language for stop and shows them who is boss. Any hissing must, of course, be balanced by lots of affection, so they know you still love them!

In summary, Bengals have very engaging, energetic, loving characters and this is one of the main reasons they are wonderful pets. Their character would not make them ideal pets for someone who wants a quiet, low key companion, but makes them amazing pets for people who want a more dog-like member of the family, along the same lines as oriental cats, but with many special features that make them unique and rewarding pets.

Read more: Distinct character of the bengal cat


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I don't think you can really say what any cat will turn into when it is out in the community, so saying that just because safe and cosy in their little breeding pens they are no threat is not really realistic.

I also think that how they react to humans is no barometer of how they are alone with other cats either.

Due to the problems some have encountered on here with Bengals it may be something to bear in mind when considering a Bengal kitten who will be in an outdoor home in built up areas or anywhere it will be in contact with strange cats or even if the potential new owner has other cats.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

> We are talking the potential for problems when all the bad factors line up together.


I am sorry but I disagree, I have seen domestic moggies bigger than some of my Bengals

The wild blood in pet bengals is breed out of them, so they are the same to a certain degree as a domestic moggie.

They have claws and teeth, I have owners whos cats have come of worse to a dispute over territorial issues.

Territiorial issues are not always won by the biggest and most fearful cat, age,agility,cunning,street smart are all factors during these stand offs with cats,slightly different to other animals like dogs,of course staffy vs poodle or being attacked by one we all no which we would want,

But cat vs cat is not as clear cut as one would be lead to believe.A seasoned cat of territorial disputes knows how to outwit, seek the higher ground make itself look bigger.

No its not like talking to a brick wall..... I just dont see things so black and white


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> What I am trying to say it is not a breed thing,its more an instinctual thing.
> 
> And to tarnish every Bengal with the same brush,I personally think is wrong,


TT can you appreciate that I may have a slightly different opinions on moggy-breeding because of what I have witnessed and experienced in 20 odd years in moggy-rescue?

I don't always (actually "ever") get to see the good moggy breeders, but I get to see the $hit ones, or rather I get to clean up the problems these bad "breeders" create.

Well… if you follow that thought in just one stage further… isn't that same with Debbie C?

She gets to see every single day the "when it wrong" cases of Bengals.

And while I will agree that of course every breed has it's problem cases and every time humans are to blame… *can't you appreciate that a lot of us would rather have an out of control moggy or Persian in our street than an out of control Bengal?* It's the same with dogs… some breeds are just more intimidating to humans (and cats).

I really can't see where anyone is tarring all Bengals with the same brush.

In fact I would argue VERY strongly against that if anyone did say "they're all xyz".


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Just to add my two pence....

I am mostly with TT on this one. Blaming the breed is an easy excuse, when there is currently NO evidence that bengals are actually any more dangerous (physically) or aggressive (in terms of temperament) than any other breed of cat.

I certainly dislike the poodle / staffie analogy - it is this line of thinking that causes BSL and perfectly sound, loving family pets to be incarcerated and killed for having the wrong appearence.

Yes a staffie could do more damage than a toy or mini poodle - but more than standard poodle? You couldn't be so sure. And what about a newfoundland, or even a labrador? Considerably bigger and stronger than a staffie / pit bull - let's ban those too.... 

Sorry, but condemning an entire breed because of the bad breeders / owners is just furry racism.

However, I DO accept that certain breeds of both dogs and cats vary in size and strength, and have certain common personailty traits. Being aware of these traits when choosing a pet is a matter of responsible owership - and being careful of who gets your pups / kittens is a matter of responsible breeding. But regardless of the breed, it still comes down to the right breeder and the right owner vs the wrong breeder / wrong owner.

A bengal in the right hands is safer than a moggy in the wrong ones - and a staffie in the right hands is safer than a poodle in the wrong ones.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Tje said:


> TT can you appreciate that I may have a slightly different opinions on moggy-breeding because of what I have witnessed and experienced in 20 odd years in moggy-rescue?
> 
> I dont always (actually "ever") get to see the good moggy breeders, but I get to see the $hit ones, or rather I get to clean up the problems these bad "breeders" create.
> 
> ...


I totally see your point but ,the point you are missing is a bengal is just another domestic moggie,but with posh markings.

You take an Asian leopard cat breed it, get the markings you want then call it a bengal, then breed all the wild blood out,and all you are left with is a normal domestic cat with fancy markings.

So a large domestic moggie if it has bad owners and a bad attitude towards its neighbours cats is as intimidating as a bengal. Its not a breed thing,it is what it is a badly behavoured cat.

There is probably someone like debbie who does the exact same thing regarding behaviour issues with regards to a persian with regards to grooming,which may I add are a total nightmare if the owner has not socialised them correctly in terms of a grooming brush, but it would still be a small percentage of persian who like to be groomed.

I just dont see how a bengal can be more intimidating than a large badly tempered ginger tom. Apart from people think they are part wild cat so they must be worse.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> I just dont see how a bengal can be more intimidating than a large badly tempered ginger tom. Apart from people think they are part wild cat so they must be worse.


well I guess the best person to answer that would be the lady (the OP's neighbour) in this thread who was scared to leave her house because the bengal was lying in wait and has been agressive to her or her neighbours in the past. I think it's a lot more than people just seeing certain markings and being irrationally scared. There are bengals out there who scare people who have never ever been scared by a normal moggy or Persian. Like "enthusiast" in this thread.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

The point being OP came on complaining about the hit crew after he cat wanting advice.... People gave advice.. the so called hit crew came on and told you all how intimidating this cat is and events that have occurred... Now this is a group of people this cat is upsetting and there cats.... Bengals are generally bigger than most domesticated cats.. DSH.... 
No body on this thread has stated that all Bengals are this way.. but people have stated they have heard of people having propblems before....

I cant understand from this how someone can go on about asking for figures re these cat problems..Nobody has said all Bengals.. People are genuinely having a problem with this cat.. and the owners behavior..

A lady who works with rescue bengals has also stated some of the probs..

Now seriously there is obviously a prob with this cat.. it ma be it is not happy in this neighbourhood.. it may not be happy in its home environment... But there is defo a prob for it to be scaring people like this!!


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Tje said:


> well I guess the best person to answer that would be the lady (the OP's neighbour) in this thread who was scared to leave her house because the bengal was lying in wait and has been agressive to her or her neighbours in the past. I think it's a lot more than people just seeing certain markings and being irrationally scared. There are bengals out there who scare people who have never ever been scared by a normal moggy or Persian. Like "enthusiast" in this thread.


Yes but these are isolated episodes, just like the Ragdoll up the road from me, it lies out the front of its gate rollind around purring.

And when some passer by who does not know the cat trys to stroke it,it nearly takes your hand off, many a child on the estate as had a wrap on the hand.

So should I now say that I am scared of all Ragdolls.

I was bit as a child by a highland terrier,so should I cross the road at the first site of everyone I see, of course not.

I read in the paper of a young youth with a hat and scarf robbing some one of there mobile phone,should I worry about everyone aged 18-22 of course not,because I am an adult and I know these are isolated incidents and just because there is one bad apple,does not mean to say the whole bag is bad.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

tellingtails said:


> Yes but these are isolated episodes, just like the Ragdoll up the road from me, it lies out the front of its gate rollind around purring.
> 
> And when some passer by who does not know the cat trys to stroke it,it nearly takes your hand off, many a child on the estate as had a wrap on the hand.
> 
> ...


Different people react in different ways.. you are taking this way off.. the people have expressed a genuine concern for their cats safety and there own...


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

IM poo on here at quoting several.. but if someone could just quote all the OP's comments onto one post then you would see a big issue here is the attitude of the OP.

And may I add also put the people names and addresses on here for all the weirdo's in the world to contact!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I wish I had never posted the link to the Bengal rescue site.It was never meant as a slight on the Bengal cat as a breed.it was purely to show that these magnificent cats can ,in the wrong hands,possibly even bred from inferior parents create significant damage.I am well aware that all cats are capable of aggression ,but the fact that these cats ,from their very breed characteristics of agility and strength if combined with aggression turn this into a different cat to your normal moggie.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

buffie said:


> I wish I had never posted the link to the Bengal rescue site.It was never meant as a slight on the Bengal cat as a breed.it was purely to show that these magnificent cats can ,in the wrong hands,possibly even bred from inferior parents create significant damage.I am well aware that all cats are capable of aggression ,but the fact that these cats ,from their very breed characteristics of agility and strength if combined with aggression turn this into a different cat to your normal moggie.


I think the majority of us know this and do not hold you in anyway responsible or believe that you have in anyway called the bengal.. but there is a nerve with someone here.. Or there just after a barney.. 
Maybe I should get the beer and the popcorn out..


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

timunator said:


> Hi,
> 
> I love my cat and is Bengal with a strong character however about eight neighbours have put together this action group and requested to re-home my cat. I asked them to use a pistol water to avoid her but keep ringing me the problems between their cats and mine and started to receive letters from the group and more people are getting involved. Honestly not sure what to do. Could you please help.
> 
> Thks,





timunator said:


> Morning,
> 
> Basically my cat scares the neighbours as she enters houses and combat with some cats however she comes back with scratches and ripped ears.
> 
> ...





timunator said:


> Hi,
> 
> The neutered female Bengal cat is my cat not the father/mother/daughter/builder.
> 
> ...





timunator said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'll be smiling when my cat is the UK's first ASBO Cat. She'll have be a celebrity.





timunator said:


> Morality is how each individual has its own principals, virtues and ethics rather than pious visions crusading against irreverent savages. I've already asked to reduce the cats behaviour by keeping inside during the evenings and a feline behavioural specialist but won't put it in a cage. That is immoral. I am concerned that upstanding citizens are spending more time on the internet looking for trouble rather than reality. I'll see you at the pub.





timunator said:


> What a load of faeces. Dogs and foxes leave deposits above the ground but cas always leave underground. Google it.





momentofmadness said:


> IM poo on here at quoting several.. but if someone could just quote all the OP's comments onto one post then you would see a big issue here is the attitude of the OP.
> 
> And may I add also put the people names and addresses on here for all the weirdo's in the world to contact!


there you go.....

Sorry missed one somewhere


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

TT, OK I have a few question for you about Bengals as a breed. I'd appreciate it if you can answer them in the least bias way possible. I'd love to learn more about the breed and have already begun doing a bit of research on the back of this thread, but you can help clear some thing up a lot easier.

What breed of cat was used in the initial crossing to create the Bengal, and is it the same breed used throughout the 4 generations to create a pure Bengal and not a 1/2 or 3/4 Asian Leopard Cat?

What generations are your stud and queens from? (that's purely interest in you as a breeder).

How can you be sure that the Asian Leopard cats behaviour (as in aggressive, territorial behaviour) is bred out of the Bengal breed?

Have you ever seen an Asian Leopard cat in the wild?

Have you ever had any of your studs and queens DNA tested? and if so can they tell you what percentage of your kitties is still Asian Leopard cat?

There may be more questions, just to warn you :lol:


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## Philski (May 28, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> This is my point exactly any pet cat has the potential to be a territiorial, I have never disputed that a bengal can not be territiorial or has not got the ability to be a handful.
> 
> I even said in one of my posts it is like Mike tyson having a fight with Mr Muscle of the Tv advert.And I have even said they aare more than likely going to win.
> 
> ...


As I said earlier, there just seems to be more stories of Bengals being aggressive than of other breeds/moggies. Sure, the media might latch onto the theme, but there's no smoke without fire. But it's the _nature_ of the aggression which sounds so worrying!

You made an excellent analogy between Mike Tyson and Mr Muscle - size may not matter, but put Mike Tyson in Mr Muscle's body and vice-versa, then my money's still on Mike. No matter how weedy his body is, he's still going to rip your head off, or die trying.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

hobbs2004 said:


> there you go.....


Thankyou.. 
Now with that attitude of OP... How on earth will it be resolved... I feel for the people in the street.. The OP has said openly her cat goes into other houses... 
Now if one of my cats went into my neighbours houses Im pretty sure my old neighbours would have launched it... And there would be naff all I could do about....

I really feel for the people in there street as they are genuinely worried re there cats safety... How can anyone say the Bengal did not kill the missing cat and how can anyone say it did... But we all know when we have fear re something our minds go into over load...

Im sure if a dog was to start terrorising this Bengal then the OP would soon have something to say about that rather than state she could have the first ASBO'd cat.. And irl see you in the pub...

Im not bothered about the statistics re bengal attacks and im pretty sure not many others are either.. If this cat was in my street.. My concerns would be how to resolve the situ.. And I know plenty of people who would resolve it by taking it to a cats home a few towns away...


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## Parallax (Oct 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> I just dont see how a bengal can be more intimidating than a large badly tempered ginger tom. Apart from people think they are part wild cat so they must be worse.


Sorry I disagree. I've had many years experience with other intelligent breeds of cats, and it is the first time I've ever had a cat that is both fearless of humans and willing to attack me for trying to get them out of my house. I've had an aggressive stray ginger Tom in my house a few times and he was just set on getting out of there when he sees me, but would attack me if I got in his way. However this is very different to our neighbours bengal who lunges towards me and stands his ground when I try to get him out.

So my neighbours bengal behaves with the same attitude as the OP's bengal towards other cats and people. After watching him fight and intimidate other cats his behaviour matches what Debbie C. states on her website. Therefore I have to conclude it must have something to do with this breed when in the wrong hands.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> Yes but these are isolated episodes, just like the Ragdoll up the road from me, it lies out the front of its gate rollind around purring.And when some passer by who does not know the cat trys to stroke it,it nearly takes your hand off, many a child on the estate as had a wrap on the hand.So should I now say that I am scared of all Ragdolls.





Parallax said:


> Sorry I disagree. I've had many years experience with other intelligent breeds of cats, and it is the first time I've ever had a cat that is both fearless of humans and willing to attack me for trying to get them out of my house. I've had an aggressive stray ginger Tom in my house a few times and he was just set on getting out of there when he sees me, but would attack me if I got in his way. However this is very different to our neighbours bengal who lunges towards me and stands his ground when I try to get him out.
> 
> So my neighbours bengal behaves with the same attitude as the OP's bengal towards other cats and people. After watching him fight and intimidate other cats his behaviour matches what Debbie C. states on her website. Therefore I have to conclude it must have something to do with this breed when in the wrong hands.


I know of a shelter that has a strict no-euthanasia policy (except for extreme instances of pain or very ill health) no cat is ever euthanized for behaviour issues. They have had this rule in place since the shelter first opened and that was 20 odd yrs ago. The one exception they made was a very aggressive Bengal who was put-to-sleep after umpteen attempts at rehoming him with veryyyy strictly vetted homes failed. They even provided free behaviour therapy for this cat in his new families, but nothing helped. The shelters most experienced fosterers couldnt deal with this cat, so he had to be housed in the shelter (which they never do with behaviour issue cats). I know the behaviourist who dealt with this particular Bengal and have emailed her about this thread and hope she posts on it. Her feline experience is vast and is not breed-related to any one breed of cats. But suffice to say she does not hold the line that Bengals are just the same as any other breed and that these attacks we hear of are just isolated instances which could happen in any breed. But. I will let her speak for herself when she gets here. There were plenty of foster mums, shelter workers and one behaviourist who took the same stance as Parallax (never been scared by an normal moggy but have been petrified by a Bengal) and bear in mind cat-owners dont come much more experienced than the people who tried with this particular Bengal. If _they_ failed well, that kinda speaks volumes. To me at least.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

buffie said:


> I wish I had never posted the link to the Bengal rescue site.It was never meant as a slight on the Bengal cat as a breed.it was purely to show that these magnificent cats can ,in the wrong hands,possibly even bred from inferior parents create significant damage.I am well aware that all cats are capable of aggression ,but the fact that these cats ,from their very breed characteristics of agility and strength if combined with aggression turn this into a different cat to your normal moggie.


buffie, don't worry, the link was very helpful to a lot of us. I swear by the messybeast website (rescue related) and I post links to there often enough... some people love what Mrs Messybeast says... others hate it. That's just the way things work. And that link did help me (and others) a lot!! I really value the opinion of people who work in rescue when it comes to issues like the one being discussed in this thread. It's like... well if I had a pregnant ragdoll I would contact Milly or one of our other forum ragdoll breeders, if I had a behaviour issue with a RD I would contact you. Nothing beats hands on expereince.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi Aurelia this info will hopefully help you on your way,

Firstly to list the whole origin of the Bengal would be a pretty sizeable book,and take an unbelieable length of time.

So I will point you in the right direction.

Firstly here is some info on the founder of the breed

Pictures of Cats org Blog: Bengal cat Origins

Which gives you info on the founder of the breed Jean Mill who started the breeding program in 1963.

Also this will give you an idea about blood percentage etc and will give you an idea of what is called an F1 a direct pairing etc

What are F1,F2 and F3 etc catergories,and what does SBTmean?

The f stands for foundation cat and has a close relative that was a asian leopard and this will be shown on his/her pedigree.

F1 = 1 parent was an asian leopard cat = 50% wild blood

F2 = 1 grandparent was a asian leopard cat = 25% wild blood

F3 = 1 great grandparent was an asian leopard cat = 12.5% wild blood

SBT = studbook tradition= totally domesticated cat

Sbt cat which Pet bengals are means it has been breed constant from back to back bengals and an asian leopard cat is not shown anywhere within its five generation pedigree.An f6 Bengals is as far removed from its close relative as it can.

You can have your cats tested for wild blood percentage, however breeders dont because it is evidential from their pedigree lines that it has been breed out, so the percentage that remains is so insignificant,that it does by no means have any reflection on the cats temperament,it is for all intense purposes that same as a normal domesticated cat.

The temperament comes from the skill of the breeder and the continued interaction etc of the new owner and the life in which it is then to grow up in.

A bengal raised correctly and socialised correctly is like any other cat.
Here is a link to one of they breeders in the uk capable of producing pure f1 bengals, whilst on the site click the serval, and read the section where it says it has been introduced to the other cats at age four weeks old and still plays and sleeps etc and thinks it is normal,this is a true wild cat we are talking about, it re-instates what I say about being correctly socailised etc

Gayzette | F1 to SBT Bengal Kitten Breeder | Scotland UK

I hope this helps your reaserch Aurelia,any further questions are of course welcome,sorry it took so long to respond had company arrive so had to leave for a while.:thumbup:


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Sorry Aurelia missed a couple of your questions 

All my cats are Sbt, which means they are all f5 and above,they all come from back to back bengal breeding lines.

The Kittens are all F6 generation kittens.

The Wild Asian Leopard cat prefers to live in isolation,and aviods human interaction where it can,so except in wild life documentaries no I have not seen one in the wild.

However a couple of breeder friends have them in captivity,as part of their breeding programs,so I have had the honour of seeing them and interacting with them in captivity here is a picture of a friends,they are truely astonishing up close and personal.

How can I be sure the Asian leopard cats behaviour is breed out?

If you spend five minutes in a captive Asian leopard enclosure you will see instantly they are totally different,apart from the markings they have nothing really in common, they do not even have the same facial profile, the asian leopard does not look cute or cuddly,it gives you goose bumps in a nice way.

Their coat does not fell like a domestic cat soft,it feels course. They very rarely break eye contact with you,the one I spent time with had its eyes constantly fixated on you,whilst it tolerated you being there you could detect instantly a distinct lack of trust,and this was one that was breed in captivity.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Colette said:


> Sorry, but condemning an entire breed because of the bad breeders / owners is just furry racism.


no one is condeming an entire breed... no one is advocating banning a breed.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

We don't know the % ALC blood of the cats that are causing trouble. They may be foundation cats or they may just be cats that have inherited a lot of ALC traits, or they may just be products of poor breeding programs, or it may be that Bengals are in general very territorial and as many are indoor pets that trait may be hidden.



> You can have your cats tested for wild blood percentage, however breeders dont because it is evidential from their pedigree lines that it has been breed out, so the percentage that remains is so insignificant,that it does by no means have any reflection on the cats temperament,it is for all intense purposes that same as a normal domesticated cat.


I had no idea this could be done, where and how can it be done?


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> We don't know the % ALC blood of the cats that are causing trouble. They may be foundation cats or they may just be cats that have inherited a lot of ALC traits, or they may just be products of poor breeding programs, or it may be that Bengals are in general very territorial and as many are indoor pets that trait may be hidden.
> 
> I had no idea this could be done, where and how can it be done?


Hi Lauren,

I have never felt the need to have any of my bengals tested, I have more than enough evidence to know my bengals are f5and above and come from back to back bengal breeding lines.

I have had friends test f1 they have bought to check authenticity of what they have purchased.

The company they used was

www.qaigen.com

They do alot of animal geneology testing from what I can gather they just phoned up and explained what they wanted them to test for. I.e was it a full F1 Hybrid.

There are various companys specialising in this on the web its just a case of looking heres another

http://www.fastbrowsersearch.com/re...&fbss=feline+dna+testing&fbsc=mtwb2ng_intl_uk


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks for the replies TT.

One thing I pick up on in your replies though. The captive ALC you speak of. I'm sorry but you cannot judge any form of temperament in a captive wild animal. They will not behave like a wild animal would actually in the wild.

Can you recommend video/documentary footage of a wild one? I've been searching online on and off this evening for such footage, but I just keep getting Bengal footage pop up, lol.

One more question, presumably there is no mating involved with this cross at the top of the chain, and it's done through insemination?


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## thelioncub (Feb 9, 2009)

SuperCat86 said:


> :O I've just read through this post and feel a bit annoyed that all you lovely people have ended up wasting your time trying to help some one who clearly never had any intention of taking your advice...I too am very sorry for this person's neighbours and all the cats who are going to continue to suffer until the owner can discuss resolving the issue like an adult.


Same here - and I'm only half way through reading it all!
I've already been put off bengals from this (although there is a lovely, friendly one who roams freely in our close) and I'm also feeling very sorry for the neighbours. I love cats, and even I'd be tempted to do something less wholesome to this horrible cat/owner.

Thing is, it hits a nerve because it could all too easily be any of us with the problem. New neighbour moves in, old neighbour gets an aggressive cat - it could happen to any of us. In our area, if this was our neighbour then our little Logi would be dead. He's too much of a softy to understand nasty cats, and would literally be torn to pieces. Horrible thought - my heart goes out to the neighbours here.

And yep.. sounds like another case of 'I didn't hear what I wanted so I'm going to throw my toys out of the pram and make childish comments to all of the great people who have bothered to write something'


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> We don't know the % ALC blood of the cats that are causing trouble. They may be foundation cats


I can virtually gaurantee they wont be a foundation cat, please click the link below and read through the article until you get to the bit on price for foundation cats the price ranges from and in their words to deserving homes £10,000 to £60,000 and one of their rarest sold for £100,000.

Not the sort of investment you would put out everyday for domestic disputes with other cats.

Gayzette | F1 to SBT Bengal Cat Breeder | Scotland UK


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## timunator (Oct 14, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> there you go.....
> 
> Sorry missed one somewhere[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

timunator said:


> hobbs2004 said:
> 
> 
> > there you go.....
> ...


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

tellingtails said:


> I can virtually gaurantee they wont be a foundation cat, please click the link below and read through the article until you get to the bit on price for foundation cats the price ranges from and in their words to deserving homes £10,000 to £60,000 and one of their rarest sold for £100,000.
> 
> Not the sort of investment you would put out everyday for domestic disputes with other cats.


I realised there were lots of DNA tests available including parentage but I was unaware of any test that would give % of ALC blood.

That article was written in 1996, I was under the impression that foundation cats are now not nearly so expensive, some pets being little more than SBTs.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> Thanks for the replies TT.
> 
> One thing I pick up on in your replies though. The captive ALC you speak of. I'm sorry but you cannot judge any form of temperament in a captive wild animal. They will not behave like a wild animal would actually in the wild.
> 
> ...


HI Aurelia,

Click on this link too explains a bit about the process of getting the Asian leopard to mate with a domestic etc and problems etc
http://www.fastbrowsersearch.com/re...ACB6&fbss=f1+bengals+sbt&fbsc=mtwb2ng_intl_uk

As for a link regarding the Asian Leopard cat in the wild Hmm now theres a challenge


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi Aurelia

This might be what you looking for on the first page there is an attachments bar and there is a down load for rare Indian cats caught on film there are seven speicies caught on tape.

Rare Indian wild cats caught on film - Google Earth Community


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

OK, I'm reading through the article on the first link and I'll ask as I go...

1. if it is possible to breed the Bengal from an F1 female and have the coat remain almost the same (a mink like pelt instead of fur), then surely if this trait remains it is possible the behaviour traits also remains?

2. If it is possible for Bengals to continue with their love of water throughout the generations ... again this means it is also possible that their wild behaviour remains.

A quote from that source:



> The wild face that the breed has lost by 'F4/SBT' can be put back in by using very high wild blood 'F1's' and F2's' in their ancestry - that is why Sarah and I bred a number of 75% wild blood 'F1' females as detailed later in this article (and more so in my article "The Majestic F1 and F2 Bengal") - so that the amount of wild blood put into subsequent generations is almost doubled - and thus, the wild features are also doubled. But one does have to ensure that such high wild blood early generations are hand reared and handled constantly to ensure that they're tame… the more wild blood a cat has, the more unfriendly it COULD be in the wrong hands. So extreme measures must be undertaken to counteract this.


3. Going by the information in that quote, this means that the wild traits are increased as the generations are born? I certainly now have the view that maybe some sort of licencing should happen, for Bengal owners. Surely if there is a chance that wild traits increase in strength through the generations, it's possible one of those traits is the wild behaviour (aggression and territorial)?

4. This lady says they have (edit: Had, as I see on getting to the bottom they no longer breed ALC's/Bengals) 60 Bengals of mixed levels (some F1, F2 etc..) and she says this is the best possible way to observe their behaviour?  How is that even possible, for one ALC's do not live in large groups, and neither do their domesticated offspring. If anything by creating a breed such as this the trait the wild ALC had for going through life fending off any other ALC's apart from mating season ... well this is the kind of behaviour we are hearing about here surely?

Another quote:



> We know that if Bengal kittens are not given the love and dedication that they deserve from an early age, then the babies will grow up to be frightened, nervous and not very loving. When we first started breeding we had to purchase cats from certain other breeders who had not kept them and bred them within ideal family environments. To this day these same cats remain wary and nervous even though we still smother them in undying love - if you are purchasing a Bengal kitten, then please ensure that they are outgoing, confident and affectionate because otherwise you will be missing out on half of the fun as the personality of a confident and affectionate Bengal is the most wonderful thing in the world!! As far as pets are concerned, I believe that their personalities are more important than their looks - a beautiful looking cat with a wild and unpredictable personality is not going to make as endearing a pet as a poor quality kitten with a personality that is so dedicated and loving that he or she never wants to leave your side!!


5. Surely this quote alone shows that Bengals should not be bred and homed to inexperienced people? As a breeder what process do you put potential new owners through to ensure they are right for the kitten? Do you neuter your kittens before they are homed to ensure no breeding take place after they leave you?

From my understanding for a Bengal to have the temperament desired for a domestic cat, they need a heck of a lot of human contact. So homing a Bengal to people who work sounds dodgy to me, as that would be a huge chunk of the day where they are not getting the contact needed. At least for the first year of their life? I also certainly would not think that letting a Bengal roam the neighbourhood is a good idea either after reading that. By doing that they don't only lack in the human contact, but they also could revert back to their wild traits to survive being a lone cat coming across other cats, who in the wild they would fight for territorial rights.

Most of that was me thinking out loud and typing it as I went. So I haven't thought about any of it properly. I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on what I've written/typed TT, or any othe Bengal breeder.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> Hi Aurelia
> 
> This might be what you looking for on the first page there is an attachments bar and there is a down load for rare Indian cats caught on film there are seven speicies caught on tape.
> 
> Rare Indian wild cats caught on film - Google Earth Community


I couldn't find any video footage of the ALC from there, only wiki info and something for Google Earth, which doesn't show video either, just pictures. I did find a small clip from one of the BBC docu's though, but it was only short in length, filmed at night and the cat was only eating some grass :lol: Not what I meant.

So this begs the question. Who has observed ALC in the wild long enough to consider they are suitable for breeding into domestic cat lines? And where is the proof of this?

I did do a little digging and find this though ... Millwood Milestones the history of the first Bengals ever bred by Jean Mill. I can't read it right now as my eyes are tired. But I'll come back to it tomorrow.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

Firstly Aurelia

In answer to some of your questions, the bengals they are talking about are early in the f ratings and they are experimenting with colours and coats etc, so they might get to an f3 or 4 and introduce an f1 or f2 back into there breeding program to introduce markings,wild looks etc

This is different within the Pet/show breeding circles we only use domestic bengals,and never re-introduce wild blood quite the opposite,if we want to enhance markings etc we look for a domestic bengal with markings we would like to increase and selective breed,i.e their off spring if there was a kitten we thought was on the way to what we wanted to achieve we would keep and breed that to keep the colour and pattern going in the right direction.Also you have line breeding,to enhance colours and markings,although not all breeders consider line breeding,I have never used this technique.

In terms of unauthorised breeding,I can not speak for other breeders,I personally dont allow any unauthorised breeding from a Kitten/Cat from Tellingtails.

As with all cats Bengals need to be properly socialised,I have said that all the way through this thread,dont blame the pet blame the breeder who intially sold the animal for either not socialising the animal or failing to educate the owner to the needs of the cat and the potential territorial problems if they were to let it roam. And blame the owner for not meeting the basic responsabilities of Bengal ownership.

I too dont think it is a good idea to let a bengal roam either,and in my very first response, I offer designs for an enclosure and explain to the Op that Bengals have the ability to be highly territorial,and in a dispute with the ordinary moggie the odds are stacked in there favour,and advised them that pet ownership is sometimes about compromise.

Her answer to some of her critism was she would be happy for her cat to get an Asbo.

The point I tried to get across is that not all bengals are like this,yes they have the physical ability to cause serious harm to others, however they can just as easily get hurt by another domestic moggie,and that being bigger and stronger does not always mean the cat would win in settling disbutes,as there are various other attributes to take into consideration, agility,cunning,speed etc.

Whilst I acknowledge in some of the cases mentioned here on the forum,the Bengal is clearly at fault and agressive it more than likely is not with its owner,so the owner is at fault for allowing this to take place.My other point was for every misbehaving reaction by a bengal,I could find an owner or article that would say otherwise and would probably not be wrong in saying the good comments out weigh the negative problems vastly.

As for any animal,so all I was trying too get across was it is more a cat instinctual trait rather than a breed trait,and the trait to be agressive over territory or when frightened and cornered say on some stairs in an unfamilar house, could lie in any animal,its the old Fight or Flight senario.Some animals will always try to escape if cornered,were others will try to fight their way out,its natures way.

With regards to finding suitable owners, I make all potential owners visit before purchasing and this goes for any kitten I sell regardless whether it is Bengal or a Siamese etc, then I ask them questions what do they know about the breed etc, my decision to allow them to re-home one of my kittens is based on them as individuals in response to my questions, like work commitments, but I am not alone in this process,many responsable breeders do simalar style interviews with potential owners.

I hope this answers some of your questions,I stand by bengals as fantastic pets if raised correctly,I have children and my youngest Luke, calls Volvic, fat lass,she sleeps on his bed and he physically uses her as his Pillow,she seems to enjoy it,I have sold many bengal kittens over the years, some to family's with kids and have had no bad reports. I have microchipped,adult cats and they have not even given me a scratch whilst performing this procedure.

Here is a short clip on U-tube of an asian leopard caught on camera

http://www.fastbrowsersearch.com/re...&fbss=Asian+leopard+film&fbsc=mtwb2ng_intl_uk


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

I can't believe this has gone on for so long!

*Debbie C*, I have just realised that you were the person I first contacted about this problem, I emailed you but didn't get a reply...not that I am complaining...just thought you were too busy.

A couple of points...Timunator says 8 neighbours (she probably knows something we don't!) in fact there are 5 cat owners, and 5 cats affected that we know about.
One owners cat has just died and they would like to get kittens but are worried about this situation. Three of us signed the original letter and one person didn't want to because she felt she had already made her point and didn't want to offend the owner who she knows....although her own cat has been as affected as all the others.

*Tje* I am not _personally _afraid to go into my garden when the cat is there but she is hard to shoo away. I _was _afraid of her when she was at the top of my stairs hissing at me and looking as if she might spring. My cat is very nervous about going out and I frequently precede him into the garden to reassure him (so he can go and have a pee in the garden and not in the house!). He is quite a big neutered tom (called Tom) and if forced to he will hold his own. He really doesn't want to though. He will run in with a big bushy tail if he sees her in time.

*Parallax*, your experiences are the same as mine/ours. This is not just a high spirited cat. The way it fights is quite fiendish. And it won't give up. It is not a normal spat between cats. As you say 'the Mexican Stand off' is not what this cat is about. This is a genetic problem.
Debbie C is going to see a Bengal in Battersea (where we live too) that has been rehoused three times....Yeah! Poor neighbours!

Maybe Timunator has never seen her cat fight and only sees an interesting affectionate cat _in the evening when she is at home and 'keeping the cat in'_. But she does know very well that her cat has caused neighbourhood problems wherever she has been. I supect that there is no-one at home most of the day and the cat is desperate for some interest. This is a cat that _needs _attention. If she can't be given appropriate companionship, she should be rehomed or given a cat-run.

Thanks everyone for your support.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

enthusiast said:


> *Tje* I am not _personally _afraid to go into my garden when the cat is there but she is hard to shoo away. I _was _afraid of her when she was at the top of my stairs hissing at me and looking as if she might spring. My cat is very nervous about going out and I frequently precede him into the garden to reassure him (so he can go and have a pee in the garden and not in the house!). He is quite a big neutered tom (called Tom) and if forced to he will hold his own. He really doesn't want to though. He will run in with a big bushy tail if he sees her in time.


oooops, sorry.... In those letters sent to the OP by the neighbours, and the OP posted here, that the mods then deleted.... there was a passage about the OPs cat attacking her cat in the garden, when she went to try and sort them out the OPs cat chased her cat into her house, and it ended with her being "holed up in her house for half an hour" as the OPs bengal would have attacked her if she had gone outside.

Actually... lol (edit time)... I am getting all confused myself.... Enthousiast... you are neighbours with the OP.... and Parallax isn't? All I remember is those letter(s) posted last week that one of the OP's neighbours .... well you could read the genuine fear in the letter. Wasn't nice to read.


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

You are right Tje, I live about 8 gardens away but not in the same road (like a T). Parallax is having a similar experience somewhere totally different. I met the father of the owner for the first time when I went to get him to ask him to get the lovely Lola out of my house where she had chased my cat after I had tried to separate them (hosing them both equally) just outside my back door. I think she would have flown at him never mind me. Anyway he didn't take the risk, told me it was his daughter's cat and went off leaving me with a spitting cat at the top of the stairs. No 'sorry'...didn't come back. In the end I closed all doors except the back door (wondering where my cat was!) and waited for half an hour until I saw her slope off ...in no hurry as is her style!). 
It was at this point I asked my neighbours if they had had any recent trouble with her (I knew we had all suffered in the past), and they had all had similar recent experiences...that is why we wrote.
Most cats, if you stand back and shoo them will run off but she is not like that.
The thing is fights in my tiny garden have been happening regularly (and I see them and try to break them up) so there is no doubt which cat starts it. My cat does go out but as you can imagine he is very nervous about it.


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## Parallax (Oct 16, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> Firstly Aurelia
> As for any animal,so all I was trying too get across was it is more a cat instinctual trait rather than a breed trait,and the trait to be agressive over territory or when frightened and cornered say on some stairs in an unfamilar house, could lie in any animal,its the old Fight or Flight senario.Some animals will always try to escape if cornered,were others will try to fight their way out,its natures way.


I really think this is a breed problem. I just managed to get my cat into my house this evening with my neighbours Bengal hot on his tails. What frightened me is the Bengal tried to break his way through the cat flap and even went for me to get into our house. Now NO other breed would do that. They might chase the cat, but to continue to try and break in despite a large human on the other side of the cat flap, well that is a fearless cat. I just managed to get the cat flap closed in time, and was quite shaken for a few minutes.

What my neighbour fails to really understand this behaviour is NOT normal cat behaviour. It is extreme. I see my other neighbours desperately trying to get their cats inside when they see this cat roaming about. It really does scare me, and I know if he ever did manage to break him, I'd defend myself, my child, and my cat with no matter what means it took.

My neighbour must have bought him off a decent breeder, this cat is beautiful to look at. But what checks really happened? He's never owned a cat before, works all day long hours, and can't even pick this cat up. So maybe someone like him just lied to the breeder, then treats the cat like a normal moggie, and just doesn't spot the behaviour problems.

It really concerns me in built up areas like London.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

> I really think this is a breed problem.


You are intitled to your opinion,as I am mine I have interacted with this breed for 13 years now and have breed them for 10 years.

And the characterisitics you are discribing,are not examples of my experience with this breed.

And I have alot of customers and breeder friends who also have a different opinion to yours.

A couple of bad bengals does not mean an entire breed has a problem with temperament.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> You are intitled to your opinion,as I am mine I have interacted with this breed for 13 years now and have breed them for 10 years.
> 
> And the characterisitics you are discribing,are not examples of my experience with this breed.
> 
> ...


TT, about this temperament thing...

A straight question.

If the idea of breeding from a wild ALC was to gain the coat and pattern in a domestic cat, and this has succeeded (well pattern at least). Then, and considering how many generations have this coat pattern STILL ... it is certainly possible that the original ALC wild temperament can also remain. Is it not?


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

tellingtails said:


> You are intitled to your opinion,as I am mine I have interacted with this breed for 13 years now and have breed them for 10 years.
> 
> And the characterisitics you are discribing,are not examples of my experience with this breed.
> 
> ...


I think the point being made is not that the Bengal as a breed has behaviour problems,but that when a Bengal goes bad ,for what ever reason,be it breeding,wrong owners or whatever,they are much more dangerous than most breeds,or crosses.The very fact that they are an intelligent,strong,athletic breed does tend to set them apart from most others.


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## tellingtails (Jul 28, 2010)

buffie said:


> I think the point being made is not that the Bengal as a breed has behaviour problems,but that when a Bengal goes bad ,for what ever reason,be it breeding,wrong owners or whatever,they are much more dangerous than most breeds,or crosses.The very fact that they are an intelligent,strong,athletic breed does tend to set them apart from most others.


A fair point, i have never denied this please read my first post on this thread, I tell the Op, that it is not really a fair fight and that pet ownership is sometimes about compromise especially with a bengal that is territorial.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> TT, about this temperament thing...
> 
> A straight question.
> 
> If the idea of breeding from a wild ALC was to gain the coat and pattern in a domestic cat, and this has succeeded (well pattern at least). Then, and considering how many generations have this coat pattern STILL ... it is certainly possible that the original ALC wild temperament can also remain. Is it not?


As far as I am aware the ALC is a timid cat that would run rather than fight, however as a mostly solitary cat in the wild I would think it would be highly territorial if it did encounter another cat. I wonder if the mix of domestic and ALC occasionally produces cats that have the intense territorial instinct of their wild forebear with the confidence and lack of fear of their domestic forebear. Add to that the strength and athleticism of most Bengals, a bad combination.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

enthusiast said:


> You are right Tje, I live about 8 gardens away but not in the same road (like a T). Parallax is having a similar experience somewhere totally different. I met the father of the owner for the first time when I went to get him to ask him to get the lovely Lola out of my house where she had chased my cat after I had tried to separate them (hosing them both equally) just outside my back door. I think she would have flown at him never mind me. Anyway he didn't take the risk, told me it was his daughter's cat and went off leaving me with a spitting cat at the top of the stairs. No 'sorry'...didn't come back. In the end I closed all doors except the back door (wondering where my cat was!) and waited for half an hour until I saw her slope off ...in no hurry as is her style!).
> It was at this point I asked my neighbours if they had had any recent trouble with her (I knew we had all suffered in the past), and they had all had similar recent experiences...that is why we wrote.
> Most cats, if you stand back and shoo them will run off but she is not like that.
> The thing is fights in my tiny garden have been happening regularly (and I see them and try to break them up) so there is no doubt which cat starts it. My cat does go out but as you can imagine he is very nervous about it.


you know enthusiast, there are not many cat (behaviour related) problems that totally flummox me. This one does. In all my years in rescue, even with x-th generation ferals, I have never came across anything remotely like this. The behaviourist our shelter uses, her and I are meeting tomorrow.... (she has already been on this thread and read through it, but she admitted quite openly to me after reading it that Bengals in her opinion are not like normal peds and moggys and she doesn't have that high an opinion of them behaviour wise). Anyway I will pick her brains tomorow and see if she can maybe advise simple but effective ways for you to deal with this cat in these kind of situations... frankly (not that I think you're lying or exagerating) I have never heard anything like this. Not with humans. Not with a garden hose. This soooo dpesn't add up. Again, not doubting you.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I remember a while ago there was this news article about a Burmese cat that was aggressive to the postman and he was petrified, can't find it tonight.

Cat aggression - aggressive cats - Article on Pets.ca | Pets.ca
See "Other types of aggression"



> "Few cats fall into the territorial or status aggression category, at least toward people. Cats often vie for position among themselves, but its generally understood that the person providing the food shouldnt be messed with.
> 
> But it happens. Breeds like the Siamese or Burmese seem particularly susceptible to this kind of aggression."


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

Tje
If I get the hose (in time, not that easy!) on her before she has attacked...yes she will make off...but once she is fighting, the presence of a big human animal even hosing her makes no difference. I couldn't believe it that when I saw this solid ball of spitting, fur flying (and it does!) 'engaged' cats, and I hosed them equally (no option there) that she still chased my cat into the house instead of running away. It is quite frightening for me too! I hadn't thought to close the back door in my haste. Am also slightly uneasy that sometime in future she will chase my cat in so closely that she will cheat the electronic cat-flap.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

timunator said:


> What a load of faeces. Dogs and foxes leave deposits above the ground but cas always leave underground. Google it.


Cats certainly make an effort to cover, but it's not like they dig a big hole to put it six feet under. My dog can attest to the ease with which he can just root through a little dirt covering and find himself a lovely morsel while we're out for a walk!

I think people seem to be on your side here and they're telling you that your neighbors, if angry enough, can do some wretched things to you, legally or otherwise. They have your cat's best interest in mind. Attacking the people on here seems to undermine your argument a bit and is counterproductive. If your cat is out scrapping every day, this isn't good for her, sunshine or not. Build a cat run or cat proof your garden. This strikes me as solid advice and just might keep your kitty from some untoward end.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

enthusiast said:


> Tje
> If I get the hose (in time, not that easy!) on her before she has attacked...yes she will make off...but once she is fighting, the presence of a big human animal even hosing her makes no difference. I couldn't believe it that when I saw this solid ball of spitting, fur flying (and it does!) 'engaged' cats, and I hosed them equally (no option there) that she still chased my cat into the house instead of running away. It is quite frightening for me too! I hadn't thought to close the back door in my haste. Am also slightly uneasy that sometime in future she will chase my cat in so closely that she will cheat the electronic cat-flap.


well I sat here together with the feline behaviourist our shelter uses, we read through the posts together ... and she is as stumped as I am. She doesn't have a high opinion of bengals with behaviour probs. I kept pushing her for a solution for you... she came up with two.... one is less than useless, and the other isn't much better either. 
1) get a feline behaviourist involved to work with the cat and owners (no use to you, the owner would have to do that and I think we both know the chances of that are zero)
2) involve the police

I am not one to post alarmist type messages on the forum.... but ..... please have some kind of back up measure in place in the event this cat does get through your cat flap. Not just to protect your cat, first and foremost protect yourself. Do not forget you are in an enclosed space.

I am going to send you a PM as my last (now erased) sentence will get so much abuse hurled at me it's not worth the effort.

I wish you (and your neighbours) all the best.

I will repeat though what I said earlier.... in your shoes, until this is sorted out, I would be keeping my cat in (or in a garden run). This isn't normal agression... this could have fatal consequences.


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## nettlefold (Sep 18, 2011)

Our neighbourhood have also been affected by two Bengals new to the area. Magnetic cat flaps are nothing to them. They attacked all other cats on sight and inflict terrible injuries. The owners are in denial saying its just what all cats do. Well it isn't. Ive had cats all my life and normal domesticated cats do not act in that way. Because they did nothing the worst cat has gone missing and I hate to think what has happened to him, but people do take the law into their own hands if provoked enough. So I would say if neighbours have complained take it seriously and keep your cat on a lead and let it run free in a field somwhere like you do with a dog. Bengals are highly intelligent and will soon learn the ground rules if you enforce them


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

This is quite an old post  If you are having issues it might be best to begin another as sadly many of the posters originally involved in this discussion are no longer around.


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

Hi, I am one of the people who complained originally.
We still occasionally have trouble with the beautiful but vicious local bengal called 'Lola' which sounds so innocent! But I think maybe she has a more stable homelife now...at any rate while my tabby remains very wary (despite being twice her size), we haven't had any serious trouble recently. Just the occasional deep scratch for which I can only guess the origin. I have to say my flap which works on his microchip works very efficiently and is a great relief.
People should be warned when they buy Bengals to keep in built up communities; it is their nature to be aggressive. Have an Aby instead...they are similarly intelligent and entertaining, but not aggressive. 
It might be worth contacting the owners. It is clear what the cat community think from this thread! Cheers. Julia


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## nettlefold (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I am taking the whole issue further as our lives have been turned upside down by having to be constantly on our guard against attack. Cats Protection and the Blue Cross are aware of the despotic tendancies of bengals, but there is little they can do. Feline advisory bureau say the issue has been raised before and they are taking it to the next meeting of directors and I am still awaiting a reply from The Governing body of the Cat Fancy. as many people that write to these bodies the better to hopefully put a few ground rules in place regarding the keeping of Bengals. No point saying any more to the owners as they are nasty people. Regards Ettie


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

Yes, good idea but I guess you will get 'no satifaction'. As well as various cat organisations, we also contacted the Council who were of course highly amused and said something like they had no legislation to cover vicious cats etc, only dogs. They did take it reasonably seriously and passed it up the line and wrote us sober letters.
But really it is no joke. We have some elderly cats in the road who were also attacked. None of us have aggressive cats and they were all becoming neurotic and peeing in the house rather than go out. There is a very accurate article on the web called Bengals as Pets...which describes exactly how you can expect them to behave (and how they DO!). If I can find the reference I will post it tho it would probably come up if you Google it. We sent it to the owner in the hope she would stop thinking it was trivial matter and that we were making a fuss about nothing. You have my sympathy.
Post how you get on...I would be interested to know. Julia


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Has anyone considered actually taking control of the situation and keeping your cats inside.

Unless its climbing through shut windows, if you keep your cats safe inside, then it cant hurt your animals.

As much as I disagree with bengals outside, they have as much right to be there as any other breed of cat. If you want to let your cat out, you have to accept others will too and that they might fight.


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

This may interest you. I don't suppose he has a cat and a Bengal living nearby! It is a reply to my Councillor who we had contacted:

I am afraid that there are absolutely no powers available to the Council to deal with cats or their behaviour and there are no actions which the Council could take in any respect. 
Action under anti-social behavior would also be wholly inappropriate as this can only be applied to the action of an identified person and not an animal and we would need hard evidence that the person was in some manner deliberately using the cat to cause alarm or distress to the neighbours. A lack of action to keep the cat indoors would not qualify in any respect. 
There is also clear case law to show that cats are not deemed to be owned animals in the manner that a dog is i.e. that a person can not be held responsible at law for its actions as they can not be controlled or restrained in the same manner as dog and due to the fact that they roam free, although this has normally been in relation to the fouling of neighbouring properties etc or arguments over ownership. 
Whereas I would not dispute the claims of the residents I would not rely on the article on Bengal Cats by Debbie Connolly who is selling services as a Behavioural Consultant for cats through her business SafePets UK, linked to a rescue centre which has now ceased to deliver services. Other web sites state that the Bengal is most definitely a domestic animal which has been selectively bred over several generations for character as well as appearance, and Bengals today should be no more aggressive or defensive than any other cat. 
I would suggest that it more likely to be an individual factor related to that individual cat rather than the breed which would appear to be dominant in the area and to be maintaining its territory. 
The law is clear in that it is for a person to keep an animal out of their property as opposed to an owner stopping their animal from entering that property. I am afraid it will be down to the residents to keep the animal out of their gardens and homes by physical means or by the use of deterrents and this is not an issue the Council can become involved in. 

Gareth Llywelyn-Roberts

Assistant Director (Environmental Services & Community Safety)

Technical Services Department

Wandsworth Council


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2011)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Has anyone considered actually taking control of the situation and keeping your cats inside.
> 
> Unless its climbing through shut windows, if you keep your cats safe inside, then it cant hurt your animals.
> 
> As much as I disagree with bengals outside, they have as much right to be there as any other breed of cat. If you want to let your cat out, you have to accept others will too and that they might fight.


Agreed ^^


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## PBateman2 (Sep 3, 2011)

Invest in a hosepipe if you haven't already got one, & squirt the neighbours with it!!!!!


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

In the case of Bengals it isn't 'might' fight. They look for fights. Unlike most other cats that may have the odd spat but on the whole like to stay out of trouble. Bengals take no notice of a hozing either. They still come on! If they get in the house you would not dare approach them to get them out. They are aggressive with people too. Here we have an uneasy peace because I think the owner is at home more and the cat is not spending so much time looking for trouble. I agree though, it is a difficult one. But people should be warned by the breeders that they are unlikely to be popular with the neighbours! They can be really time-consumingly disruptive and destroy the happiness of local ordinary cats. I simply think it isn't fair to have that type of cat in densly populated situations. I am sure they are nice with their owners but they are something else outside!


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## nettlefold (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks for posting the letter from the council Enthusiast. The answer was no different to what I would have expected. Unless one has actually experienced the problem it is difficult for others to understand and almost laughable. You are right it is not just cats fighting it is domestic cats running for their lives from a wild beast. If they are caught the cat goes for the windpipe to suffacate their prey. two of mine have been attacked in that way. Fortunately we were there and booted the beast off. Ours were left choking up blood and coughing. At best they are attacked at the rear as they escape into the house and end up with abscesses that have to be lanced. My rescue cat "Mouse had a very bad one on her tail and her back end is still traumatised with her black fur having grown back grey.

As far as keeping them in is concerned, some neighbours have opted to do that. Ours are more in than out and tend only to go out when we do. When you have lived somwhere for 30 years and have a large garden that Cats Protection described as cat heaven (although cat hell now) It seems rather hard that some jumped up newcomer turns up with posh cats to match her sofa and turns the lives of a dozen or more households upside down and doesn't give a dam!

Most breeders are in denial about any form of agression but I did have a rather amusing and honest response from one whose Bengal wrought havoc finally breaking into a rabbit hutch and killing and eating the neighbours rabbit. He was then faced by a deputation of neighbours telling him to keep his cat in or they would shoot it! He keeps it in!

RSPCA Australia have confirmed that Bengals are banned from their country unless they are at least F5. The two next door are F3. Cats Protection say domestic cats have naturally domesticated to humans over thousands of years and domestic cats that are crossed with wild cats may behave differently and beome more territorial and aggressive. The more wildcat genes present the more aggressive they are.They recognize that Bengals have different behavioural and nutitional requirements and that inadequate care could lead to a dangerous animal with behaviour that is unacceptable to either their owners or neighbours. They are difficult to rehome safely and that further burdens the already overstretched rescue charities. Having said all that there is nothing they can do! 

Our solicitor has sent a letter saying we have a right to enjoy our property and unless they keep their cat in we will take court action. The letter has had no effect, just rude signs being made if you catch their eye.

I am awaiting some further responses from Feline Advisory Bureau and Governing Council Council of the Cat Fancy who are putting my complaints before their directors. Bengal Cat Club Welfare have not acknowledged my polite letter. I will post the replies when I get them.

Meanwhile we have water blasters at various points filled with dirty water (more efficient than water pistols) and we blarst the beast whenever we can. He is getting the message slowly but has moved on to other neighbours and we hear their cats literally screaming from time to time. All you Bengal owners out there, I'm sure some Bengals are absolutely fine but when they are like the one next door it is not acceptable behaviour and judging from my internet research peoples lives in little pockets all over the country are being harmed by the same problem.


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

Thanks for your comprehensive reply, I will pass it on to my neighbours.
I presume F3 and F5 refer to the pureness of the genes?
Do keep me in touch with what happens. We obviously have identical perceptions of the problem! VERY interesting about Australia though of course it will be said that that is because of the wildlife. I am not sure, but in Australia I think cats of all sorts are not allowed out at night. However an outright ban is quite revealing. We wish there was one here! All the best, Julia


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## nettlefold (Sep 18, 2011)

Hi Julie,

F1 is the first generation being a Leopard Cat as one parent. That's the wild part. F1 needs to be licenced in this country and not allowed to roam. So F3 is three generations removed from the wild cat hence less wild genes, but a lot of Bengals owned by people are F3. F5 is 5 generations away so more domestic cat genes and so on. If you google "Kofi the killer cat" you will read about a Bengal that terrorised an area a few years ago and even killed a couple of cats. I am in touch with Debbie Connolly whose website was rubbished by your council. She has helped several people with problems similar to ours, and they both ended up with police mediation. Bengal breeders have been very nasty to her, but she has Bengals herself so she is a responsible owner who understands them and knows full well how bad they can be to other cats.

Ettie


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

If Bengals are banned from roaming, then all cats should be banned.

All cats have the opportunity to fight, and many will fight. Its not just Bengals...


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## nettlefold (Sep 18, 2011)

Hi Julia,

We have had a reply from our MP who said "contact the council" ha ha. He did send quite a useful letter though saying that if the schedule of Dangerous wild animals were to be revised it would be proceeded by a public consultation at which I could make a case for further restrictions on Bengal cats. So I would like to start a campaign for it to be revised and need to get some names on board. Do you want to join me? and perhaps your neighbours too? I am searching the internet for as many stories as I can like yours and mine.
Ettie


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## Ingrid25 (Oct 1, 2011)

exactly! just get them to spray him with a water pistol!!!!!!!!!

cats fight,
i reckon its not ONLY bengal that fights!
the other cats probs help out too!


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## Parallax (Oct 16, 2010)

nettlefold said:


> Hi Julia,
> 
> We have had a reply from our MP who said "contact the council" ha ha. He did send quite a useful letter though saying that if the schedule of Dangerous wild animals were to be revised it would be proceeded by a public consultation at which I could make a case for further restrictions on Bengal cats. So I would like to start a campaign for it to be revised and need to get some names on board. Do you want to join me? and perhaps your neighbours too? I am searching the internet for as many stories as I can like yours and mine.
> Ettie


I would join you. I don't think Bengals should be able to roam freely in built up urban areas and left to terrorize other domestic cats.

My cats are too scared to go outside as each time they get attacked, as the Bengal smashes through our cat flap to get them. He is massive and more the size of a dog compared to mine.

So yes I'm sick of it. It's not normal for one cat to be sooo aggressive and always go for the throat like this one does. There is must be some wild trait in him to make him fight like he does. They should be kept indoors full stop


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## nettlefold (Sep 18, 2011)

Yes the Bengal always go for the throat. The one next to us is only 3 generations away from the wild Leopard cat. Cats Protection said the more wild genes in them the worse they are. The Bengal should not be free to roam when it causes such misery. I am going to try and start a group on facebook so will let you know when I have that up and running for anyone interested.


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## nettlefold (Sep 18, 2011)

Hi Parrallax

I have just set up a group on facebook called "Ban Bengal Cats" my name is Lynette Reade so if you are on facebook join me there. If you are not then email me on [email protected]


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## enthusiast (Oct 16, 2010)

Nettlefold/ Lynette...I have just tried to join your Facebook group...heaven knows if I have done it right! Facebook remains a puzzle to me, the rules forever elusive!
For the record I am Julia Matcham...so if I haven't found you, you can find me on Facebook? 
Anyway good for you. I think it a good thing that our common experiences should be aired. Most people with acquiring Bengals don't know what they are getting into. By the time they do, they have fallen in love with their cat/s and any excuse...'all cats fight'...will do for them. The most important thing is that they should at least be warned.
Julia


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