# in hell of a mess! Day 61 my darling has given birth



## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

she just finished giving birth an hour ago, she had the first two upstairs under my cupboard which was very hard to get to then we transfered them and her to her cage she had a further 3 so shes had 5 within 1 hour and 15 minutes, she done everything herselfes cut the cords wooke them up ate placentas.

just need some advice as my mentor is not answering and im in a mess.

1. Is it ok she ate all 5 placentas?

2. theres one breathing different to the rest his breathing is more spaced out and heavy.

3. she hasnt lost the fur around her nipples so they are findind it difficult to find and latch out i have tried putting them to a nipple myself after seperating fur but they end up moving their head a different way and dont latch on.

4 I NEED VODKA.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Congratulations :thumbup:
It's fine that she ate all the placentas - some do some don't but so long as you can account for all of them it's fine.
The one that's breathing differently - have you been able to check to make sure the airway is clear? Definitely keep an eye on that one.
Will mum let you trim the fur round her nipples? I'm not a lot of help with that, having short-haired cats myself.
Have the vodka :thumbup:


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

aww congrats to you all , best wishes to mum and babies


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

trim the fur with what? the one thats breathing different is not even trying to feed like the rest of them im very worried  tried latching him on a few times but mamma freaks out a little when i pick them up. really worried for that little one


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## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

5 placentas may give her a bit of a runny tum but shouldn't do any harm, the breathing sounds ok to me but I would keep an eye on the kitten just in case and if you get to worried phone your vet, the nipples are like radars, the kitts should find their way there eventually, not sure mumma would let you trim, but if she is ok with it then it all helps  #4. keep yourself calm  a calm you will help momma keep calm


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Is mum showing any interest in the one not breathing well? It may have a problem and she is aware - sometimes mums will ignore a sick baby  If she is getting stressed when you touch them try to touch them as little as possible. 
You can carefully snip hair away from the nipples with nail scissors


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Congratulations  - stay calm sometimes it takes mum a while to settle with kittens and for them to find the nipple - please dont panic if they dont latch on straight away, my girl first labour was long and the fist kittens didnt feed until she had them all which was several hours and all was fine.
Much as you might fancy it I wouldnt have that drink quite yet unless you have another designated duty driver - I like to see mine several days old and settled with mum before I crack open the alcohol just in case I need a trip to the vets - but then I am a worry wort


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

keep an eye in the little ones.... They will settle in no time ... If you squeeze some of mums milk the kitten will head that way .. Quick birth so will be alittle she'll shocked


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

My cats are long haired but the kittens don't have any problems finding the nipple and feeding eventually, ,the little one might find the nipple on its own ,sometimes they do flounder around a bit at first, if very worried ring your vet for advice over the phone,
Have you moved her to dry covers if shes finished giving birth,i put a couple of puppy pads in the birthing box ,then when she has finished,just slide the top wet one from under her, and have dry covers under those
Hope all is well, try not to panic,as long as she seems ok in herself, they will settle down


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

thanks all. Tilly has been great with me, she wanted me there for all the births and now she doesnt want me to leave her side. only problem is everytime i try and leave the room she gets up out of her cage until i sit back on the floor with her then she will return to cage. I cannot believe my mentor is still not answering I feel like crying!

The little one whos breathing is a bit laboured i managed to get him latched on for a bit but then he gets too weak. Havent opened the alcohol yet even though im desperately in need in case I need a trip to the emergency vets.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

alal332 said:


> thanks all. Tilly has been great with me, she wanted me there for all the births and now she doesnt want me to leave her side. only problem is everytime i try and leave the room she gets up out of her cage until i sit back on the floor with her then she will return to cage. I cannot believe my mentor is still not answering I feel like crying!
> 
> The little one whos breathing is a bit laboured i managed to get him latched on for a bit but then he gets too weak. Havent opened the alcohol yet even though im desperately in need in case I need a trip to the emergency vets.


Don't panic ... Do you have nutridrops


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Kittens will find their way to teats, don't worry about that.

The kitten with the bad breathing, if you have a syringe place in the mouth and draw the syringe out, so that if there is any fluid you suck this or dislodge it.

mum will settle in the cage, what I have to do is cover the whole cage with a bed throw, then she will settle down.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

catcoonz said:


> Kittens will find their way to teats, don't worry about that.
> 
> The kitten with the bad breathing, if you have a syringe place in the mouth and draw the syringe out, so that if there is any fluid you suck this or dislodge it.
> 
> *mum will settle in the cage, what I have to do is cover the whole cage with a bed throw, then she will settle down*.


A good idea - mine settle better when it's darker


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Yes for some reason they like it dark and quiet, my queen feels more secure with her babies if I cover her.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the fast response! I finally got hold of my mentor who was out for her anniversary  so I couldn't tell her off really for not being there when I was in such a panic. I had my sister on the phone who has a cattery and she calmed me down a lot. I feel calmer now, Tilly and her babies are settled now, the week one has had a couple of feeds but doesn't feed for long so tomorrow I'm thinking see how he/she is then possible bottle feed him if I see he's still not getting enough. No weighing yet. Mentor said she does it same day, but Tilly is settled now. Here's a picture


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Glad mum has settled.

To be honest if the weak kitten was mine I would give Nutridrops and plug the kitten onto the back teat, mums milk is the best and if you can avoid hand rearing I would try to avoid doing so.

In my last litter 3 weeks ago I had a very weak kitten, you will be surprised at how strong they can get with nutridrops.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

alal332 said:


> <snip>
> 
> the weak one has had a couple of feeds but doesn't feed for long so tomorrow I'm thinking see how he/she is then possible bottle feed him if I see he's still not getting enough. No weighing yet. Mentor said she does it same day, but Tilly is settled now. Here's a picture


By far the best way to know if the kitten is getting enough is to weigh. You don't want to fill a kitten that's suckling OK with a bottle as it's mother's milk is far, far better for it, plus bottle / syringe feeding has the dangers of feeding to fast and the kitten getting milk in it's lungs. So long as it doesn't lose weight (or only a tiny bit) in the first couple of days it will probably be fine if there is nothing actually wrong with it.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

Hope the weak one with the laboured breathing will be ok, I had one in our last litter who got a lot of fluid on his lungs after the sac had ruptured and when he came out the sac around him had lots of blood inside, the placenta came first with him and also his siblings, we lost the first then we lost the little one who couldn't breath overnight, as much as I tried to clear his airways and massage him upside down etc he also found it difficult to suckle due to not being able to breathe properly, we nearly lost another but she made it and is as healthy as her three remaining siblings now. 
Ours don't usually eat all placentas, usually one or two and then leave the rest, they do tend to give them a runny tum but they are supposed to eat at least one.
All the best with the weak kitten x


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Hope they're all still OK. For future reference, the thing to do if there is concern about the breathing is to swing the kitten - hold it between your thumb and forefinger, making sure you support its head and neck, and just flick your wrist several times. You won't do it any harm (except, perhaps, give it a headache) and if there is any fluid in the airways it should come out.

Liz


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Just a thought, have you checked the weak kittens mouth, in one of last years litter, one wasn't latching on and I found out it had cleft palate, had to have the poor little thing pts,it was struggling to breathe


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Swinging is no longer recommended as it can do brain damage if done impropperly, or so I'm told.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Very sad news. I took the weak little one to the vets as after checking his mouth I was sure it was cleft palate. The vet confirmed it was and I burst into tears and she immediately picked him up and went to take him off to be euthanized, I managed to get a no out in which was very difficult so full of emotions and tears and told her I needed a minute. I phoned my other half I told him I couldn't do this when the little baby is moving and crying like the rest of his siblings. I brought him home, I am feeding him myself, he is taking the milk great and now he's not even breathing difficult, if it wasn't for the fact that he's smaller than the rest I wouldn't know which one because he's climbing and crawling and now even has the strength to feed off his mam. I could not pts without giving him a chance. I know the outlook for newborn kittens with cleft palate. But if I can give him any sort of chance I will no matter the cost. He's happy with his mam and siblings. 

Today has been really hard and full of tears, I feel completely emotionally wrecked.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

alal332 said:


> Very sad news. I took the weak little one to the vets as after checking his mouth I was sure it was cleft palate. The vet confirmed it was and I burst into tears and she immediately picked him up and went to take him off to be euthanized, I managed to get a no out in which was very difficult so full of emotions and tears and told her I needed a minute. I phoned my other half I told him I couldn't do this when the little baby is moving and crying like the rest of his siblings. I brought him home, I am feeding him myself, he is taking the milk great and now he's not even breathing difficult, if it wasn't for the fact that he's smaller than the rest I wouldn't know which one because he's climbing and crawling and now even has the strength to feed off his mam. I could not pts without giving him a chance. I know the outlook for newborn kittens with cleft palate. But if I can give him any sort of chance I will no matter the cost. He's happy with his mam and siblings.
> 
> Today has been really hard and full of tears, I feel completely emotionally wrecked.


I sincerely wish you all the best with the little one - a very hard decision you have made and I hope he pulls through for you. Breeding can be a very heartbreaking, as well as heartwarming, experience


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Just weighed them and the weights are not great but then they were born on day 61. 4 (including the weak one) weigh 80 grams and 1 weighs 90 grams.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I do feel for you and I don't want to dash your hopes. It's heartbreaking, I know. Cleft palate repair can be done but it's often fraught with complications and may need two separate surgical procedures, depending upon the severity and whether both soft palate and hard palate are involved. It's surgery that needs to be performed as soon as practically possible and would almost certainly need referral to a specialist.

In the meantime there's the real risk of inhalation pneumonia. Nothing is impossible but it's a huge commitment in terms of time and money... both things you may have plenty of but please bear in mind that you need to be able to get the kitten to a size/weight where surgery becomes a viable option - getting there is going to be very, very difficult. I think your best hope is that the cleft isn't a particularly severe one.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Thanks for the advice. We have been told that surgery is only aN option once a certain weight and age has been reached. We are clinging to the hope that hopefully its not the most severe case. I just could not go through with euthanizing him like that when there's still hope. We are just taking it day by day at the moment but he's not screaming in pain at all, he's taking the milk, he's active and he's comfortable. Its amazing how something so little can have such a massive impact on you.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I wish you and this little kitten all the luck in the world.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Thanks, I've just woken up at 3am to check on them and he's not very good now. Before I went to bed he was active and just like the rest of them, when I checked on them he was on his own from the pile and he looks very weak again :'( this is breaking my heart. 

But I am also very grateful for the healthy ones we have, they all just had a very good feeding session, and Tilly is being such an awesome mother. I will be weighing them later this evening at same time to ensure they have gained weight. 

Also can I ask everytime I open the door of the birthing room Tilly is waiting by the door to come out? She does return to the babies when I sit by them but I'm worried in case she's waiting by the door a lot? I can't keep the door open as we have other animals in the house.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I imagine she hears you coming to the door and goes to greet you. You don't know what she is doing when you are not in the room. If the kittens are growing well don't worry.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

My girl is always waiting at the door of the kittening room in the morning, so please dont worry about that - my husband built me a half stable type second door so during the day she can jump in and out as she pleases but the half door discourages the other two cats from going in. 

So sorry to read about the little one with the cleft palate. Breeding is such a rollercoaster of emotions, people who dont know think breeding is easy. They dont understand how much worry and angst and sleepless nights goes into it - how many days/nights out are missed because you dont want to leave mum and kittens for a few hours. Personally I find it gives me the perfect excuse to be where I want to be, at home with my cats. Hope everything is going well this morning x


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I'm afraid the little one sounds most unlikely to make it. If I'm wrong, your best chance by far is tube feeding but honestly the chances are very slim.

Liz


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

How are mum and kitties today ? x


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

alal332 said:


> Thanks, I've just woken up at 3am to check on them and he's not very good now. Before I went to bed he was active and just like the rest of them, when I checked on them he was on his own from the pile and he looks very weak again :'( this is breaking my heart.
> 
> But I am also very grateful for the healthy ones we have, they all just had a very good feeding session, and Tilly is being such an awesome mother. I will be weighing them later this evening at same time to ensure they have gained weight.
> 
> Also can I ask everytime I open the door of the birthing room Tilly is waiting by the door to come out? She does return to the babies when I sit by them but I'm worried in case she's waiting by the door a lot? I can't keep the door open as we have other animals in the house.


I imagine mUm knows he isn't good and has pushed him out of the nest. My last litter I had one that mum did this too, it didn't thrive at all and despite me syringe hand feeding it never gained etc. At 3 days old it died anyway. Sometimes mum knows things aren't right.

I understand why you have opted to give the little guy a chance, but for me personally I would have let the vet euthanise rather than watch him struggle and die in the end anyway. How bad is the cleft palate?

If you are hand feeding and Mum is rejecting him please make sure he is warm enough before you feed him or just the feeding him could kill him if he is cold.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

alal332 said:


> Just weighed them and the weights are not great but then they were born on day 61. 4 (including the weak one) weigh 80 grams and 1 weighs 90 grams.


these are actually fine weights.

I have had a pair delivered on day 57 at 58g and 54g both thrived. A friend managed to save a 25g teeny. 80 g is a good weight really, it's important now that they put on a decent amount of weight every day. Around 5-10g each.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

sadly we have had to put 2 to sleep. I cant really say much more at the much at the moment because i feel like someone has ripped my heart out and i cant breathe. 3 remaining weights are 81 gram 83 gram and 75 gram.


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## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

so sorry to hear this


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

alal332 said:


> sadly we have had to put 2 to sleep. I cant really say much more at the much at the moment because i feel like someone has ripped my heart out and i cant breathe. 3 remaining weights are 81 gram 83 gram and 75 gram.


I am so very sorry to read this, sending you hugs x


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

So sorry. X


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

O I am sorry, that must be devastating especially if it's your first litter.

When you feel up to doing so, tell us the whole story please, We might be able to help for the future.

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

spid said:


> A friend managed to save a 25g teeny.


Good heavens! That must be some sort of record!

liz


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Yes first litter. Both who are now resting with the angels had cleft palates and had become very week and suffering despite my attempts to help I could not let them suffer. My sister who has been breeding for years warned me of it being a roller coaster. I definitely feel like I've been on hell of a one. I just keep thinking of them all being born, and all looking so perfect. Tilly did go a bit early as well so the fur on their ears belly legs and tail is very sparse. The three remaining are so little and with also being premature I really hope they stay with us. The smallest doesn't feed for too long off Tilly. I'm a bit worried about the fact he's dropped 5 gram since yesterday as well so on advice of my mentor I help him attach to nipple wait until he's finished which is only a couple of seconds and then tried him with a bottle but he's not taking it as of yet. 

Not sure if I want to continue with my breeding programme after this. I don't think I'll ever get over it.


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

Really sorry to hear about the loss of your little ones. And your first litter too  Breeding unfortunately can be heartbreaking, not helped I think sometimes by breeders themselves who often gloss over the bad things that happen for fear of losing customers I expect. But sadly things don't always go right and we have had experiences too with still borns and occasional deformities and it is never nice and is heartbreaking. Last year I lost a kitten at 19 days who was born flat chested and we had a kitten born with its insides out (fortunately stillborn tbh) in a different litter as well as a couple of stillbirths and it doesn't get easier but then when you have success it makes it worth the heartbreak. I always do what I can and like you if there is a chance however tiny I take it because I was brought up that where there is life there is hope. I have always said if I ever get to a point where I become dismissive of it or say 'its just one of those things' I will give up breeding. But at the moment I would never be like that and so I carry on and do what I can when I can even if that means bottle feeding a litter like I am at the moment or keeping a kitten rather than having him pts who had a leg deformity and had to have it amputated. Breeding brings lots of joy as well as difficult times but there are times when like you I have thought is it worth carrying on...but then this weekend I have a litter of 6 happy and healthy leaving for their new homes and know that it is x

Edited to add that I personally wouldn't be overly concerned about a kitten losing a small amount of weight in the first couple of days, ours often do and our bottle feeders were static or losing for a few days until they were established. Also bottle feeding is hard so avoid if you can by keep putting the kitten back to mum even if it doesn't suck for long. If you have to bottle feed its harder than the image you might have. It takes anything up to a week to get them fully used to sucking on the bottle in my experience. Lots of patience is needed!


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_very sorry to hear you lost two of the babies, my heart goes out to you, stay strong, and fingers crossed for the rest of the litter xxxxxx_


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

So so sorry you lost 2 little ones  

You are in my thoughts xx

RIP little angels xx


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

RIP Little Angels xxxx


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am so, so sorry that you have lost two of your babies and totally understand how heartbreaking it is having suffered my own heartbreak in breeding last year.I know how much it hurts to lose those little lives  and how you feel about giving up. I can only say don't make that decision while you are upset. Concentrate on those surviving little ones and I hope they thrive.
RIP tiny angels


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## British shorthair blues (Apr 16, 2013)

Don't be disheartened i have just lost a whole litter of 3 kittens 1 had it's heart on the outside and was alive, a strong little mite i had to have the baby pts, the other two were from what i could see healthy and fully formed but still born so i know how you feel the hurt gets better.

I have felt like giving up breeding many times but when you get a healthy litter running and jumping around then of to there new slaves it makes it worth while.
Don't make decisions when your feeling so upset give it a couple of weeks.

Good luck with the remaining 3 babies.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

lizward said:


> Good heavens! That must be some sort of record!
> 
> liz


Yes, amazing I know!

OP don't give up yet - my first litter wasn't good either - first baby put nearly got stuck (only came out after 25mins as I picked mum up to put her in the carrier to go to the vets) and was still born, had been dead inside for a couple of days, manky from early decomposition and had hydrocephalous (hence giving birth at 57 days) and it's sisters were small 57g and 54g but they gained steadily and are now healthy 6 years olds! So wee ones can thrive. It doesn't stop the pain or trauma, but . . . give yourself some space before you decide what to do.

It not unusual for them to lose a little at the start until they get used to suckling.

Chin up and lets home the others make it.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Premature as well is not good news. I had a litter a week or so early back in October, lost 7 out of 8. Mum didn't want to know, which didn't help, thoguh I did have another girl take them on.

The weight loss would concern me. It would be worth trying to tube feed if the kitten is still with you tomorrow and has not gained weight. Tube feeding is scary the first time you do it but is really very easy. You may even have someone nearby who could show you how to do it.

Liz


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Thanks to everyone so much. You really are all amazing support. Your words have definitely helped me. Here are babies having a feed, well two are the feeding the other is fighting, green and blue keep fighting over the same teet. Red has his own one and doesn't allow anyone else on that one! Crossing everything I have that these babies make it.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

I managed to get them all feeding without fighting. Phew


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Here they are


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

A bit of scrabbling at the milk bar is quite normal. I feel that trying to 'make them feed nicely' can be counter productive.

Also 61 days is only 4 days early, assuming you had the correct expected date. Before 59 days is a whole different ball game.

Hope the remaining 3 do well.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Thank you. The smallest ones weight has dropped by 4 grams in one day and has now become too weak to even suckle from mams nipple when put to it. So I am syringe feeding him which he is taking nicely. Have my alarm set for All the night feeds. Hoping I can get him strong enough to feed again off Tilly. 

I keep having moments where I feel happy again and excited for the threes future. And then I start hurting again. If only there was a quick cure for this emotional pain.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I would suggest Nutridrops for these kittens, I have one very tiny baby and im sure nutridrops saved him.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

catcoonz said:


> I would suggest Nutridrops for these kittens, I have one very tiny baby and im sure nutridrops saved him.


Have been administering nutridrops. Managed to get him to suckle off Tilly's nipple again just now after sitting on a hard floor for 10 minutes just trying to help him latch. I managed even though he only lasted there for a couple of minutes. Hoping tomorrow they will be a lot stronger. Red collar is very strong, crawling everywhere, finds the nipples on his own and is constantly feeding and is far bigger then the other two. Green collar is not too bad although he tries and tried to find a nipple until he gives up so as long as I put him to one he latches straight away, and blue collar well as said, is very small and is finding it difficult. I am determined to do everything that I can to help these beautiful babies. Hoping tomorrow is a better day. Each day seems like a marathon.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Sleeping xx


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

And again look at that paw


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

beautiful babies , bestest wishes for them xxx


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

The good news is that tiny has put on 2 grams today and so has red put on 2 grams. I know its not a lot but at least it hasn't dropped again. We have a probklem where green collar has gone from 79 grams last night to 74 this morning. The three of them only seem to want two nipples when I checked these two nipples look like the only ones with milk so two kittens keep fighting over one. I feel like I'm taking one step forward and two steps backwards. I am so exhausted already lol.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

If you massage around the teat area you can actually bring the milk back in those teats.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Have just tried this but still nothing, will keeps trying when Tilly allows it. 

Still feeling so sad about the two we lost  just keep thinking there should be five there


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

what happened is done, dont let it stop you moving forwards - I lost 2 of my first litter of 5, two years later I have three great facebook friends and look forward to updates from my first three boys - breeding is hard but it does have its rewards.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

You have to be strong when breeding. It's never easy but the rewards when things do go right is the most wonderful thing in the world 

They will get there with tender loving care and there is a plenty of people to help along the way 

It doesn't get any easier when they get older getting them to 13 weeks can also be a challenge


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Only just come back to this thread, I am so sorry you have lost 2 babies to cleft palate, you did your best and that is all anyone can do, I hope the others thrive, and hope the syringe feeding helps, I have had to do this several times, and they seem to manage it better than a bottle,
RIP little ones


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Thanks all. Tiny and red have gained weight today, I can't explain how pleased I am to finally have two on track. Red went from 86 last night to 94gram this morning and tiny went from 74 last night to 77. Green however went from 73 last night down to 70 this AM. I have just managed to get him attached to Tilly, waited until he finished then topped him up with formula which he suckled great.

Why can't I get all 3 gaining weight instead of one losing ahhhhh


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Just one of those things ... Stick to weighing them once a day at the same time , it will drive you mad 

Top them up in the day it's not going to hurt will only benefit them all ,


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Ok so the smallest continues to loose weight over night but 14 hours ago he was weighing 73 gram and now he's at 83 gram but the middle one has lost from 86 gram to 83 gram and the biggest is up at 120 gram. I'm slightly concerned about the biggest as he was very active but has now become slow and lethargic but I'm guessing it's to do with his massively bloated stomach? Tilly is trying to stimulate him and I have also tried with a soft damp cloth but no success. Pretty sure he's constipated. Would anyone suggest I feed him some formula watered down to try and get him going?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Don't feed kittens that are putting weight on. Only feed them enough to stop them losing weight. I'd take the big one to the vets.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Haven't fed big one at all as he's always gained weight but the other two are finding it hard maintaining it and loose weight so I'm topping them up when possible. I haven't given the biggest one any formula and typically he's the bloated one. Trip to the vets again it is...


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

He is still constantly feeding even with his bloated stomach. He has shot up from 102 grams yesterday to 120 today.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

This will probably sound silly but do you think the "bloated" one could have a stomach full of milk compared to the others who are not feeding so well so look different? Ive had kittens put on 30g plus in a day and they have round little milk bellies when full


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

We did just think a full belly at first but its feeling a little too hard for my liking


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## Jensams (Feb 27, 2014)

Hi alal
Are the kittens hydrated? Do the tent test on the scruff of their necks and see if they are dehydrated (if the skin doesn't go back straight away). I've just read this article, it says that they need to be hydrated first, otherwise their bodies can't make use of their milk:-

https://suite.io/mia-carter/5p8923d


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

alal332 said:


> Ok so the smallest continues to loose weight over night but 14 hours ago he was weighing 73 gram and now he's at 83 gram but the middle one has lost from 86 gram to 83 gram and the biggest is up at 120 gram. I'm slightly concerned about the biggest as he was very active but has now become slow and lethargic but I'm guessing it's to do with his massively bloated stomach? Tilly is trying to stimulate him and I have also tried with a soft damp cloth but no success. Pretty sure he's constipated. Would anyone suggest I feed him some formula watered down to try and get him going?


As I think others have said, best not give the kitten you think bloated any formula; it will likely make things worse and that's IF he is constipated. A kitten feeding solely from its mother is highly unlikely to become constipated and so long as mum is tending to their rear ends all should be well.

Considering I probably over involve myself at times when I'm (usually unnecessarily) concerned about newborns, it feels a bit hypocritical to say perhaps it's time to take a small step back from the situation. Just a small one. It's not uncommon for a small'ish litter of kittens to develop an attachment to only two teats and feed from just those 'in turn' which, if you're weighing frequently - dare I say too frequently - you will notice some yo-yo'ing in their weight gains.

I know how incredibly difficult it can be to sit on your hands in this kind of situation; you just want to give them the best possible chance. Healthy kittens, that are a reasonable weight, with an attentive mother, will thrive despite the very marginal ups and downs and occasional stall you're seeing in their weights. Sometimes, picking them up for weighing too frequently, trying to get them attached to teats that they don't want to be attached to, etc, etc, can interfere with the natural pattern of how *they* want to do things


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> As I think others have said, best not give the kitten you think bloated any formula; it will likely make things worse and that's IF he is constipated. A kitten feeding solely from its mother is highly unlikely to become constipated and so long as mum is tending to their rear ends all should be well.
> 
> Considering I probably over involve myself at times when I'm (usually unnecessarily) concerned about newborns, it feels a bit hypocritical to say perhaps it's time to take a small step back from the situation. Just a small one. It's not uncommon for a small'ish litter of kittens to develop an attachment to only two teats and feed from just those 'in turn' which, if you're weighing frequently - dare I say too frequently - you will notice some yo-yo'ing in their weight gains.
> 
> I know how incredibly difficult it can be to sit on your hands in this kind of situation; you just want to give them the best possible chance. Healthy kittens, that are a reasonable weight, with an attentive mother, will thrive despite the very marginal ups and downs and occasional stall you're seeing in their weights. Sometimes, picking them up for weighing too frequently, trying to get them attached to teats that they don't want to be attached to, etc, etc, can interfere with the natural pattern of how *they* want to do things


I think you are absolutely correct. And I completely agree. I am overly paranoid but that's because if I wasn't the smallest wouldn't be here now from dropping 5 gram plus a day and became too weak to feed. I just can't help worrying  my mentor recommended I weigh twice a day morning and night. But I think that's just making things worse. Will just stick to every morning now.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

So very pleased to say both little ones seem a lot stronger today as well as the big one. It's such an amazing feeling to see them actually up and fighting over the nipple after being so weak. It's beautiful.


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## KEhleyr (Jul 24, 2011)

Cant offer any advice but just wanted to say Im thinking of you and your kittens and RIP to the little ones who didnt make it xxxx


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Think this little one is going to be a blue


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

awwwwww , best wishes for them all ,so sweet, you must be very proud you are doing a great job


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

Thank you  they are getting there. The biggest is 152 grams, the middle is 107 grams and the smallest is 92 grams, still tiny for a week old and the smallest has only gained 5 grams in 24 hours but they are all finally putting on weight. Tilly is being such a good mother. She has them in an excellent routine, feeds them cleans then gets them all comfortable and sleeping then comes out of the cage for a little break before returning to them. The most she leaves them at a time is 10 minutes. Even though they are still sleeping she goes back to them. Very proud of her.


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## alal332 (Jan 13, 2010)

So at tonight's weighing the weights are 168grams, 118 grams and 108 grams! Very pleased, Tilly is one awesome mother very attentive she's doing such a great job. Still waiting for their beautiful blue eyes to open. Will try to get some pictures of them tomorrow. They are such wriggles now, very active kitty's :thumbup1:


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

alal332 said:


> So at tonight's weighing the weights are 168grams, 118 grams and 108 grams! Very pleased, Tilly is one awesome mother very attentive she's doing such a great job. Still waiting for their beautiful blue eyes to open. Will try to get some pictures of them tomorrow. They are such wriggles now, very active kitty's :thumbup1:


Thats great really pleased for you and Tilly


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

alal332 said:


> So at tonight's weighing the weights are 168grams, 118 grams and 108 grams! Very pleased, Tilly is one awesome mother very attentive she's doing such a great job. Still waiting for their beautiful blue eyes to open. Will try to get some pictures of them tomorrow. They are such wriggles now, very active kitty's :thumbup1:


Excellent - glad to hear that everything is going well


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## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

just read this whole thread and noticed noone has posted since middle of april how is everything going how are the kittens and mum?


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## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/362831-babies-nearly-3-weeks.html

Update posted on 28/04!


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