# Does anyone know what the white growth is



## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

20210522_163307




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Christopher2827


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May 22, 2021




Can someone tell me what's wrong with my sucking loach


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Hi. Welcome to the forum.

Could you answer these following questions? I explain why we ask these questions below:

1) *How big is the tank? (in litres, gallons, or physical dimensions length x width x height)*
We ask about tank size because the smaller the tank, the quicker things can go wrong. Knowing tank size or volume can also help us work out medication dosage, if necessary.

2) *How long has it been set up? Could you tell us the make and model of the filter?*
This is in two parts;
A) Age of the set-up gives us a vague indication of how likely the tank is to be fully cycled. For example, if you've had the tank for 2 weeks and got fish a day after the tank, we know you're 2 weeks into a fish-in-tank cycle. Plus, the newer the tank, the more likely it is that it's a causative factor in the problems you're experiencing.
B) Knowing the make and model of the filter can help us work out if it's appropriate for your tank and stocking.

3) *Did you cycle it before you added the fish? (Cycling involves adding a source of ammonia to the tank and testing daily until ammonia and nitrite return to 0ppm and you have a nitrate reading. This process takes weeks - not days. You can find a link with more information on cycling here).*
This is related to Q2.

4) *Do you have any test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, (in ppm or mg/l - "water parameters fine" doesn't tell us anything) pH, GH and KH? Also, details of the test kit you're using will be beneficial, too.*
Another question that has multiple parts.
A). Water quality problems (ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate) are the single biggest causes of illness and death in the hobby. "Fine" is subjective, we need the actual results.
B). PH, GH and KH, collectively known as water chemistry, affect the toxicity of any water quality issues. Plus, fish kept outside of the parameters they've evolved for are more susceptible to problems
C). Dip strip tests are usually less reliable than the liquid tests, and you usually have to buy a separate kit for ammonia (which makes absolutely no sense to me, but then I don't work for a test kit manufacturer), so if, for example, your fish are showing all the signs of nitrite poisoning, but the kit says it's 0mg/l, we'll take that into account but advice you do a 50% water change anyway. 

5) *Could you give us a full list of tank inhabitants, including species and numbers?*
It's important to know then full stocking of the tank for a number of reasons;
A). To rule in or out the possibility of overstocking
B). To ensure that any treatment we advise is safe for all species - for example, there's no point in advising a copper based treatment if you have inverts or sensitive fish in the tank, because it'll kill them.
C). To rule in or out any compatibility issues.

6) *When was the last time you did a water change? How much, and did you use dechloronator*?
The day-to-day running of the tank doesn't change much, which makes water changes the most common variable in the hobby. It's the one part where we can screw up - forgetting the dechlorinator is just one part. Also forgetting to plug the filter back in, like I did, 5 weeks ago :Bag

7) *When was the last time you added anything new to the tank - fish, inverts, decor Did you quarantine them? If so, how long for? You can find more information on quarantine here*

Adding new fish (or any inverts or decor that was in a tank with fish) can come home sick. Fish shops and suppliers often keep diseases under control by using UV sterilisers, which can mean the fish have no immune system to speak of, which means as soon as they come off UV - like your home aquarium, for example, they have no defences against any and all diseases out there. Plus, any immunity they have gained is put to the test with the stress and shock of transport.

If you put them straight into your main tank, any diseases they come with can quickly lead to a tank-wide problem.

8*) Could you post pics? Mainly of the fish in question, but also of the tank*. Sometimes a member might spot something that you may have overlooked.

9) *Anything else you think we need to know? The emergency, the history, etc.*


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

Hi,

Thanks,

It's a 100 litre tank, been on the go for almost 2 years, this is the first health issue.

Uses an aquael 700 filter and a large sponge filter at opposite end of tank,

USING API TEST STRIPS

NITRATE 0
NITRITE 0
PH ABOUT 6.5
GH ABOUT 60
KH ABOUT 20
AMMONIA SEEMS TO ABOUT 0.5

last water change was a week ago, included a gravel clean, and always use API stress zyme and stress coat,

Tank contains 6 wcmm and 2 sucking loach, lost a wcmm 4 weeks ago. Vanished completely can't find it, 

The wcmm Iv had since birth from my smaller tank, and I've had the sucking loaches about 1 year.

Will post more pics


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)




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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Christopher2827 said:


> View attachment 469036
> View attachment 469037


Thanks for answering.

Now the bad news.

Sucker loaches are territorial, and your tank is a little too small even for 1, never mind two. Given that there's similar white marks on the other loach, chances are they're fighting while you're not watching (it would be a foolish fish that fights when they know a predator is watching, and as far as they're concerned, we're predators). Therefore the chances are these are battle scars that have developed a fungal infection. You'll need to separate the fish and treat with aquarium salt, pre-dissolved in waterand added slowly to the tank.

That also explains the disappearance of the WCMM. These fish are only algae eaters whilst they're young. There's also a huge size difference between the loaches and the WCMM, putting the much smaller minnows at risk of predation.

Longer term, my advice would be to rehome the loaches, increase the WCMM shoal and look for a smaller "centrepiece", fish.


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> Thanks for answering.
> 
> Now the bad news.
> 
> ...


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

Hi thanks for answering, both sucking loach died through the died,

Petsathome sold me them saying the would be fine with the wcmm, and would be okay 2 of them in that size of tank, 

I've uploaded another picture of injuries, they were both fine 1 day, looked ill next and dead the following? You still confident it was battle scars getting infected?

Should I run a full api, fungal and bacterial course in the tank to make sure there's nothing in the tank? I started it yesterday but obviously whatever it was was too far along to save them.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Christopher2827 said:


> Hi thanks for answering, both sucking loach died through the died,
> 
> Petsathome sold me them saying the would be fine with the wcmm, and would be okay 2 of them in that size of tank,
> 
> ...


Hi. So sorry for you loss.

Yes, I think they've been fighting, and both succumbed to their injuries.

LFS (Local Fish Stores) are generally horrendous for giving out advice - especially on compatibility (and tank sizes, and cycling), plus sucker loaches _are _peaceful when young. But as they get older, they become more and more territorial.

How are the WCMMs? If they look fine in themselves, I'd discontinue any treatment, leave it for a couple of weeks, and then think about restocking.


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> Hi. So sorry for you loss.
> 
> Yes, I think they've been fighting, and both succumbed to their injuries.
> 
> ...


Brillaint thanks for your advise, they look fine. They've been hiding a lot lately but would further agree with the fact the loaches have been fighting I take it? Today they are fine. Swimming around top/middle of tank like they usually do


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Christopher2827 said:


> Brillaint thanks for your advise, they look fine. They've been hiding a lot lately but would further agree with the fact the loaches have been fighting I take it? Today they are fine. Swimming around top/middle of tank like they usually do


Close, but no cigar. The minnows will be hiding because the loaches will have been giving them a battering too. The same happened in one of my tanks when a male Pearl Gourami decided the whole tank was his and chased my rasboras into hiding.

They'll come out once they realise the threat has gone - but do get more of them. The minimum recommended number for a shoal is 6, but given that shoaling fish live in groups of thousands in the wild, I personally consider 10 to be an absolute minimum. You see a whole different side to them then.


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> Close, but no cigar. The minnows will be hiding because the loaches will have been giving them a battering too. The same happened in one of my tanks when a male Pearl Gourami decided the whole tank was his and chased my rasboras into hiding.
> 
> They'll come out once they realise the threat has gone - but do get more of them. The minimum recommended number for a shoal is 6, but given that shoaling fish live in groups of thousands in the wild, I personally consider 10 to be an absolute minimum. You see a whole different side to them then.


Brilliant thank you I'll get another 4 wcmm, what fish would you advise with them? My toddler likes the black Venezuelan Cory but don't know anything about them, what would you recommend?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Christopher2827 said:


> Brilliant thank you I'll get another 4 wcmm, what fish would you advise with them? My toddler likes the black Venezuelan Cory but don't know anything about them, what would you recommend?


The Venezuelan Cory could work, but again you'd need a group of at least 6.

The fish that strikes me as a good "centrepiece", fish is the honey gourami:
https://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/honey-gourami.html


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

Thanks, the gourami looks nice. Can they thrive alone or should I get a couple? 

My tank is 105 litres I think from memory when I got it dimensions are 750mm x 400mm x 350mm. 

How many would work? I'll get 6 more wcmm making it a shoal of 12, what space would that leave me with?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Christopher2827 said:


> Thanks, the gourami looks nice. Can they thrive alone or should I get a couple?
> 
> My tank is 105 litres I think from memory when I got it dimensions are 750mm x 400mm x 350mm.
> 
> How many would work? I'll get 6 more wcmm making it a shoal of 12, what space would that leave me with?


A shoal of 12 WCMM would be fantastic, and you could have 2 or 3 of the gourami.

In fact, if you wanted, you could still throw in the Cories as well. 
Aqadvisor


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

Sounds good to me, 12 wcmm, 6 Cory and 2 or 3 gourami?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Christopher2827 said:


> Sounds good to me, 12 wcmm, 6 Cory and 2 or 3 gourami?





Christopher2827 said:


> Sounds good to me, 12 wcmm, 6 Cory and 2 or 3 gourami?


If you could get 1 male gourami and 2 females, that would be ideal.


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

Hi thanks for all your advice!

I've held off on the fish till the tank parameters settle, the day after the sucking laoches died the water clouded up(assumed a bacterial bloom due to the sudden laod change of the loaches not being their caused it) it has now cleared up but I'm still reading about0.5 ammonia using the api test strips? 

Nitrates and nitrites are 0 
Ph about 7
Gh about 30-40
Kh about 20

But I can't get the ammonia to 0, should I just wait or do you think there's an issue somewhere?

I'm planning on getting the 6 extra wcmm first and space the rest out a few weeks so as not over load the tank to quickly, is that a good plan? 

Thanks


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Christopher2827 said:


> Hi thanks for all your advice!
> 
> I've held off on the fish till the tank parameters settle, the day after the sucking laoches died the water clouded up(assumed a bacterial bloom due to the sudden laod change of the loaches not being their caused it) it has now cleared up but I'm still reading about0.5 ammonia using the api test strips?
> 
> ...


Hi.

Sorry for the late reply, I've only just seen this.

Test your tap water. That should read 0 - if it reads 0.5, the test strips are throwing off bad readings.

But I highly recommend you get the liquid based test kit. Much better value for money and more accurate.

In the meantime, assume the reading is accurate and carry out daily water changes, testing before you do so. Using Seachem Prime should keep the toxins away from the fish without affecting the readings.


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> Hi.
> 
> Sorry for the late reply, I've only just seen this.
> 
> ...


Thanks I will do!


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> Hi.
> 
> Sorry for the late reply, I've only just seen this.
> 
> ...


Theres some white fluff appearing on my fake plants, how do ibget rid of that/prevent it or is that normal?


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

Christopher2827 said:


> Theres some white fluff appearing on my fake plants, how do ibget rid of that/prevent it or is that normal?


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> Hi.
> 
> Having a closer look at the tank all the ornaments are actually covered in some white fluffy stuff, is that algae or fungus? Do I just clean the ornaments in running water?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

It sounds like algae. It's harmless to the fish, but if you want rid of it, you can take the affected ornaments out, brush it off as best you can and put the ornaments back in.

How long do you have the lights on?


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> It sounds like algae. It's harmless to the fish, but if you want rid of it, you can take the affected ornaments out, brush it off as best you can and put the ornaments back in.
> 
> How long do you have the lights on?


Great news it's nothing serious lol, did you see the picture I uploaded?

About 4 or 5 hours a day, usually between 5pm and 9pm the lights are on


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Christopher2827 said:


> Great news it's nothing serious lol, did you see the picture I uploaded?
> 
> About 4 or 5 hours a day, usually between 5pm and 9pm the lights are on


Yes, I saw the pic.

Not likely to be algae then. Any new driftwood in the tank?


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> Yes, I saw the pic.
> 
> Not likely to be algae then. Any new driftwood in the tank?


Nope no drift wood at all, plastic plants I've had a long time, newest thing is a air bubble treasure chest with floating diver, about 6 months old thats the worst that's caked in it thick and the paints starting to come off could that be the cause?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Christopher2827 said:


> Nope no drift wood at all, plastic plants I've had a long time, newest thing is a air bubble treasure chest with floating diver, about 6 months old thats the worst that's caked in it thick and the paints starting to come off could that be the cause?


I would remove any ornaments whose paint is flaking or coming off - that _could_ be dangerous to the fish.

I'd suggest getting some live plants in there, they should out compete the algae for food.


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> I would remove any ornaments whose paint is flaking or coming off - that _could_ be dangerous to the fish.
> 
> I'd suggest getting some live plants in there, they should out compete the algae for food.


What live plants would you recommend? I had live plants before and they grew like wildfire having trim them every week to stop them overtaking tank


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Christopher2827 said:


> What live plants would you recommend? I had live plants before and they grew like wildfire having trim them every week to stop them overtaking tank


If you want slow growing plants I'd look at Java Moss or Java Fern.


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)

LinznMilly said:


> If you want slow growing plants I'd look at Java Moss or Java Fern.


Thanks again! Last thing is I've been monitoring the wcmm closely since the sucking laoch passed, and 1 of the wcmm has similar whitebpatches on its side and its hovering around the top of tank away the rest and the rest are hiding any ideas what's happening in my tank gonna have a break down lol


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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)




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## Christopher2827 (May 22, 2021)




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