# Behaviorist Cost?



## KatiBear (Mar 4, 2010)

Hello,

I'm thinking about having my puppy be seen to a behaviorist...
I'm not blaming him for the way he acts, and hopefully I will learn a few things from the behaviorist too.

At the moment we have two problems with him, my partner and I are frequently on our computers, but it seems whenever my partner is sat at his, our puppy sits in the corner and constantly barks at my partner and doesn't stop.

We've tried throwing toys/playing with him, and have also tried ignoring him - but nothing seems to work. Neither of us can figure out why he does it. As he doesn't seem to do it to me at all.

Another problem which is of more concern to us, is that whilst we are out walking him, he has started to try chase cars, and also now attacks static ones or barks at them.

I've tried reading up on these things, but he is very much over the threashold at the moment and I think the problem lies deeper, in the fact that he is a Border Collie with chase instinct, and I think maybe someone more professional would be able to help him a lot better, and teach us some things too.

I was wondering, what people thought of the average rate of pay you would pay a behaviorist? I know money shouldn't be an object, but at the moment it really is as we are not the richest of people.

Any advice/suggestions would be great 
Thanks in advance.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

A man i knew paid 75 pound for an hour and the advice he got was utterly uselss he said.
If you can find a decent trainer maybe think of doing some one-2-ones these are usually around the 20 pound mark and as youd be getting regular training from them, they would have a better idea of whats going on over someone coming in and 'assessing' the dog from new. 

What id do if I were having any problems


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## lailabear (Nov 10, 2009)

We had someone come to our hose for an hour or so and that was £50 for the intial talk (years ago mind) and then i think £50 if we wanted her to come back and tell us how she could help etc not very good!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

I started typing a reply and it vanished! So, Take two!

Firstly - behaviourists come in all colours & flavours and some are not so good. So the best way is to find one who is part of the APBC as this is the only organisation that recogises qualifications and offers only kind positive reward based methods.
APBC Members by Region | Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors

Next - you may want to think about a trainer instead of a behaviourist - the car chasing for instance can and will come under the heading of training, since that's what you will need to do to combat it.

Again, there's a quality benchmark for trainers:
Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK

In the meantime, you might benefit from reading Understanding the Border Collie by Carol Price
and perhaps also a very useful little book by David Ryan called Stop! Predatory chasing in dogs.
"Stop!" How to control predatory chasing in dogs

Some other things that may help are various Border Collie organisation websites, as chasing cars etc is very common in the breed, and most will have some guidance on how to go about modifying the behaviour. Though it has to be said, David Ryan's solution is by far the best and most effective I've found.

They are also a very intelligent breed and know how to manipulate people (as you are finding out!) by attention-seeking. Carol Price's book has some excellent advice on this. Any good trainer with BC experience will also be able to help you here.

Is you pup crate-trained? If so, then while you & your OH are on the computer, this can be pup's "down-time". I'd suggest popping him in the crate with a stuffed Kong or something similar when you are on the computer - initially for 10-15mins but aim to gradually build up the time, even if it means one of you has less time online for a few weeks while you're working on this!

I'm sure someone else will come along with more ideas soon, but hope the above is enough to get you started, there are lots of us on here with BCs and BC crosses which have all had similar issues at one time or another! And yes, we're still here to tell the tale, and so are our lovely dogs


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

what she said, :lol: :thumbup:

i have no clue what co$ts are the UK as i am across the pond...  
sorry. 
but any breed-savvy pos-R trainer can help... 
if U cannot find one, Click to Calm is a safe DIY resource, with step by step protocols in the back of the book.

calmatives are always helpful - 
DAP pump spray 
Comfort Zone Comfort Zone with DAP Spray for Dogs Anxiety Relief 
Rescue-Remedy Liquid 
Robbins Pet Care - Bach Rescue Remedy liquid drops - 10ml 
botanical-lavender pump spray 
Bulgarian Lavender Oil | Lavender Water | Alteya Inc.

hang in there, a good pos-R trainer is a huge help. 
--- terry


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

KatiBear said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm thinking about having my puppy be seen to a behaviorist...
> I'm not blaming him for the way he acts, and hopefully I will learn a few things from the behaviorist too.
> ...


You don't need a behaviourist for this just a bit of guidance and reassurance.

How old is the dog?

How long do you spend on the computers?

What physical and mental exercise schedule do you have in place for the dog?

What happens if you make it so the dog can not see your O/H on his computer?

Border collies love to be the centre of attention, it is one of the things they do best be it at home, when out an about of whilst they are dreaming - I am sure they dream about being live on stage in front of a huge crowd. 
It is a matter of giving the collie the right direction and situation to shine. This is why so many sports involve collies and they excell at them too - flyball, agility, disc sports, dock dogs, dancing to music, obedience and of course herding trials top name a few.

What you get when your dog is given the chance to "shine" is a dog that is completely and utterly focussed on the activity and it gets tunnel vision to eveything else. If I walk my two as you would on an average dog walk they will walk by your side, plod along nicely and absorbe the environment. Get a frisbee out fo your pocket or just pick up a stick an the change is immediate and intense!!!! "Make that thing move please!"

When this happens you tyhen need to work on an off switch with the dog. a command that states "No more of this activity will take place so just relax and listen to the world again". If you don't have this off switch then you run the risk of having an anxious, nurotic and frankly stressed dog because what you will gather quite quickly is that you will get bored of the games before the dog has even got it's second wind.

Get a routine going. This is the easiest way to settle a dog and allow it the tiem to shine and relax. Once a routine is established the dog doesn't have to worry about "Are we going out? Are we going out?" or "Where are you going? When are you back?" and it can just rest, conserve itself and enjoy it's "shine" time more.

Dogs were formed meant to go all day like we would like to believe. Sled dogs were bred to run a long way at high speed, a collie was bred to think on it's feet for prolonged periods, gun dogs were bred to focus on the job in hand for prolonged periods but they all need time to just crash and sleep. Actually they will sleep for a lot of the day if you get the balance right - bar racing sled dogs where food and sleep are merely means to an end for them.

Make sure your training and play times are clearly defined (end of game/training command used - "off" switch) so the dog knows it is downtime and can settle without wondereing where the next engagement is coming from.

Ever noticed how no matter what time of day it is and if your dog was asleep or not but if you decide to have a play, make the wrong move or decide to go for a walk the dog is immediately primed and ready? That is how keen they are and that is how easy it is to keep them in that elevated level of mind activity.

Hope that gives you some reassurance that your collie is no different o every other dog out there really, especially other collies. With a bit more info we can give you some advice on how to work at cutting out the barking and demanding attention (mainly due to no "Off" switch).

Cheers,

Hutch.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

here i was ready to post a big long message and merlins mum beat me to it!


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## KatiBear (Mar 4, 2010)

Wow, thanks for the reply everyone! 

@*MerlinsMum* - Aww, sorry you had to type it twice MerlinsMum - Hate it when that happens!
Unfortunatley in the first link there is no one near my area  Well the 
closest are about 40 minutes away. And without a car that's difficult for us.

I've been trying to find puppy training classes too, we have found one near us,
which are once a week for 6 weeks. Is once a week enough? I'd love to try and take him twice
a week but a lot of people say to me once a week is enough.

I know it's definatley the chase instinct with him going for the cars,
but what I get confused about is he's actually terrified of them!
He lays down before they go past him, then once they are past, tries to chase them

I have noticed an improvement now though, he doesn't go for 'every' car anymore
just certain ones, and he's stopped attacking static ones so much too.

We have been very stern with him since my last post, which breaks my heart
but i've been watching a lot of Ceaser Millan series, and what I came
to realise is that we baby our puppy too much, which is an easy mistake to make
and that's why he became a bit naughty, and was barking at my partner so much,
because he was being a bit of an attention seeking child, but now that we treat 
him more like a 'dog' and less like a 'baby' he's almost stopped barking in the corner
at my partner altogether.

We get him to go in his crate, but he doesn't like the door being shut, when we first got him
we were crate training him, but we got a lot of complaints from neighbours because of his barking
but if we ask him to go in his 'crate' he does.. granted he does come back out now and then to play or bark
but if we ask him to go back in, he will.

We also frequently give him his kong, once a day maybe or once every other day, he loves it!

I can see him shaping into a real good dog if he stops biting! =]

@*leashedforLife* - thanks for the links, very helpful... I always wondered about those calming
sprays though - how do they actually work? Would that not be the equivalent to human drugs?
I want him to be himself, does the spray completley calm them so they aren't even playful or?

@*hutch6* - Ollie is 3 months now, we spend a good part of the day on our computers, but are getting up in frequent intervals
to walk him, feed him, play, toilet e.t.c It's okay we give him a good life, we aren't bad owners I promise!

We get up in the mornings (sometimes from 7am - 9am), have our tea and coffee then take him for a walk which lasts about 30-40 minutes, sometimes not all of it is walking
sometimes playing ball, or standing around by a stream (we are teaching him to go in water, and he did the other day! willingly  )

Then we either take him for another walk in the afternoon or in the evening, depending on how tired he is from his last walk.

We also play find and fetch in the house and garden.

If you can think of any other games we can play with him that would be great, i've been trying to look for games but there are few to find!

But about the barking at my partner he has improved marjoly, we just don't allow it anymore and he's pretty much stopped.
If he does start barking we say 'crate' or if he gets too wound up, we put him in the next room for him to calm down for about 15-20 minutes, and he generally doesn't bark in there
he stays pretty quiet.

"Ever noticed how no matter what time of day it is and if your dog was asleep or not but if you decide to have a play, make the wrong move or decide to go for a walk the dog is immediately primed and ready? That is how keen they are and that is how easy it is to keep them in that elevated level of mind activity."

Yes! haha, no matter how deep of sleep he is, if I move and inch (to go to the toilet, kitchen e.t.c) he will immediatley wake up and follow =D then looks wide awake!

Thank you all for your sound advice, I have taken it aboard =]


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## alysonandhedley (Oct 29, 2009)

In the meantime, would your dog chew a bone or a filled kong whilst your partner is on the computer?


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## Deb (Jan 28, 2009)

my border collie has just seen a behaviouist for her pulling. It was £50 for one hour and she still pulls like mad. (she also chases cars too!!!)


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## KatiBear (Mar 4, 2010)

@alyson Yeah we give him chews and his kong, but he has calmed down from the barking at my partner, hopefully it was just a phase that he's now getting over 

@Deb Oh dear that is not good news, maybe you should speak to the behaviorist and tell him/her that she is still pulling. We have been taking our border out for 3 weeks now, maybe longer and he is also still trying to chase cars, unfortunately we have no car of our own for him to be around and sniff.
But if you have your own car Deb, maybe walk around your car (whilst static) with the lead on and pull slightly every time she tries to bite or go for the car. I mean I'm only going off what advice other people have given me, and what Ceaser Millan has said. Good luck!


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

A behaviourist cannot magically cure your dog for you. They should give you a behaviour programme to follow and it is you who has to stick to it and practice what has been taught. If you give up or get impatient then it won't work. There are no quick fixes I'm afraid. 

Take into account also that Public Liability and Professional Indemnity Insurance cost money and that the behaviourist should have this though it is not a legal requirement, just a sensible one. If the behaviourist is qualified then that means that they will have spent hundreds of the own money in learning (if they have done proper courses that is). Then there is their fuel, car upkeep, materials, and other costs plus of course the demand that helping people has on their own free time. If a behaviourist does the job properly it is also hard on them mentally too, especially nowadays when they are up against fans of certain TV programmes which make training and rehabilitation look so simple and fast.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

KatiBear said:


> I know it's definatley the chase instinct with him going for the cars,
> but what I get confused about is he's actually terrified of them!
> He lays down before they go past him, then once they are past, tries to chase them


hey, kati! :--) 
thats not SCARED, hun - thats *ambush* AKA stalking behavior, native to the type.  


> We have been very stern with him since my last post, which breaks my heart
> but *i've been watching a lot of Ceaser Millan series, and what I came
> to realise is that we baby our puppy too much*, which is an easy mistake to make
> and that's why he became a bit naughty, and was barking at my partner so much,
> ...


U cannot safely MIX much of CM/DW with all of the above, which is primarily POSITIVE - REINFORCEMENT and meant to *teach the right / desired behavior* -- 
CM/DW is primarily =suppress the UNdesired behavior= which is the other end of the spectrum. 
please find a pos-R person - trainer, behaviorist - and get THEIR help.

IMO + IME U are trying to blend oil + water - and in this case, training has no emulsifying agent. 
all my best, 
--- terry


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2010)

CarolineH said:


> A behaviourist cannot magically cure your dog for you. They should give you a behaviour programme to follow and it is you who has to stick to it and practice what has been taught. If you give up or get impatient then it won't work. There are no quick fixes I'm afraid.
> 
> Take into account also that Public Liability and Professional Indemnity Insurance cost money and that the behaviourist should have this though it is not a legal requirement, just a sensible one. If the behaviourist is qualified then that means that they will have spent hundreds of the own money in learning (if they have done proper courses that is). Then there is their fuel, car upkeep, materials, and other costs plus of course the demand that helping people has on their own free time. If a behaviourist does the job properly it is also hard on them mentally too, especially nowadays when they are up against fans of certain TV programmes which make training and rehabilitation look so simple and fast.


I set out structures to follow after initial consultation also all medical reasons must be ruled out before hand aswel.
All must be followed by the book to gain good results its also about training the owners aswel as the dogs.

As for the programs on tv i couldnt give S$$$ bout them lol


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## AlbertRoss (Feb 16, 2009)

I don't know where you are in the country but Southampton University has a department that specialises in animal behaviour. The person in charge (whose name I've forgotten) does private work. I've known 2 people who used her and both have had nothing but positive things to say.

BUT - such people tend not to come cheap.

OTOH if your pet is insured you may be covered for behavioural assistance. Check your policy. Be careful too. If you are insured and your pet shows aggressive tendencies this can invalidate your insurance.


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## KatiBear (Mar 4, 2010)

CarolineH said:


> A behaviourist cannot magically cure your dog for you. They should give you a behaviour programme to follow and it is you who has to stick to it and practice what has been taught. If you give up or get impatient then it won't work. There are no quick fixes I'm afraid.
> 
> Take into account also that Public Liability and Professional Indemnity Insurance cost money and that the behaviourist should have this though it is not a legal requirement, just a sensible one. If the behaviourist is qualified then that means that they will have spent hundreds of the own money in learning (if they have done proper courses that is). Then there is their fuel, car upkeep, materials, and other costs plus of course the demand that helping people has on their own free time. If a behaviourist does the job properly it is also hard on them mentally too, especially nowadays when they are up against fans of certain TV programmes which make training and rehabilitation look so simple and fast.


I never said that they would, and if you read my first post again you will see that was not my intention and I also said that I would hope I would also learn things too.

And in the case of the TV show, it has actually helped big time, and since watching them we have learned tips and now our Pup has stopped barking in the corner at my partner.

So maybe to some people these TV shows are useless, commercial and make things look easy (when they are surely scenes that have been cut) they actually helped me, and really and surely that's all that matters, right?

I took your post slightly offensive really only because no way did I imply that I wanted my pup 'magically cured' and I have not even said that I was impatient. I was merely concerned for his future, really.

Totally understand on the costs of behaviorist though, it's not easy I bet - And I agree with all that they have been through and are going through, so I totally get that.

@leashedforlife Oh yeah I get that but also sometimes he hides behind us. I know for a fact that if I had a car of my own I could practice with him every day and I know i'd be able to work with him on it and get him to stop it, but alas  He's a clever boy and he just needs to be shown, I don't want to do it on strangers parked cars, they might wonder what I'm doing to their car O__o

@charlie n rio "its also about training the owners aswel as the dogs" completley agree, and I know for a fact that it's mostly myself and my partner that need to be taught things, we are learning too...

@Albertross That's a shame, I'm in Wales - little too far hehe.
Thanks for the insurance tip, I will have a look


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## mashabella (Oct 23, 2009)

KatiBear said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm thinking about having my puppy be seen to a behaviorist...
> I'm not blaming him for the way he acts, and hopefully I will learn a few things from the behaviorist too.
> ...


I paid £90 for 2 hrs and it was more for showing us how to handle the dog and the problems we had with him, because a lot of problems are actually not real problems.. we just need to know how to handle them.

At first i thought it was very expensive but now i think it was worth every penny...as the lady who came was brilliant ..she gave us a lot of tips and confidence with handling our dog.

you do have to find the right person tho, i think i just struck lucky.


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

KatiBear said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm thinking about having my puppy be seen to a behaviorist...
> I'm not blaming him for the way he acts, and hopefully I will learn a few things from the behaviorist too.
> ...


Hi,

I think MerlinsMum has given some great advice, I too would highly recommend David Ryan's book "Stop!" How to control predatory chasing in dogs

BC's need lots of mental stimulation. I would suggest you start clicker training, keep the training sessions short 5/10 mins, and do 5 sessions a day. This will mentally tire him out. So before computer time, have a training session, then give him opportunity to go toilet, then pop him in a crate with a stuffed kong.

RE prices: this should give you and idea fees - fun4fido | clicker training 4 dogs But I don't think you need a behaviourist, a very good reward based trainer should be able to help, and training classes would be great too.


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## k8t (Oct 13, 2009)

AlbertRoss said:


> I don't know where you are in the country but Southampton University has a department that specialises in animal behaviour. The person in charge (whose name I've forgotten) does private work. I've known 2 people who used her and both have had nothing but positive things to say.
> 
> BUT - such people tend not to come cheap.
> 
> OTOH if your pet is insured you may be covered for behavioural assistance. Check your policy. Be careful too. If you are insured and your pet shows aggressive tendencies this can invalidate your insurance.


The person you are refering to is Anne McBride. You may find a link to her on the APBC site.

However the oroginal poster was Wales, so I think these would be more appropriate

http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/regions/walesp://

Trainers are here, which is more what the OP probably needs to set them on the right track..

Local Dog Trainers - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK

I would suggest you get yourself a good book - Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey. or Good Dog Behaviour, also by Gwen. Both will give you help and advice to set you on the right track. Chasing cars is a very common collie problem and whilst a trainer can help you with this, your other problems are the usual puppy ones and will improved with time.

Going to a traiing class once a week is great you can work on what you learn the rest of the week. Make sure that they are using treats and lots of posistive praise for the dogs, any yanking, shouting, pushing dogs to the floor, don't go. It is also a chance for you to see and talk to others who probably have the same problems as you, which puts things in persepctive a bit.

As you know, BC needs lots of structure and routine, along with lots of mental stimulation, so practicing your training a coulple of times a day is great for them.

Whenever you are busy on your computers, make sure that your dog has been exercised, played with, mentally stimulated before expecting him to settle. Get your Kong (every day, several times a day if necessary, not just a few times a week!), stuff it with nice stuff and give it to him. If you have stuffed it well (lots of threads on here about that), it should give you a couple of hours or more. If he pesters, just ignore, don't speak, or take and put out of the way, as even you negative attention is attention to your dog. If he barks, try to ignore it, it will get worse, but once he realises it produces no reaction from you, he will give up.

Take Cesar Milan with a pinch of salt too, whilst what he says about routine, exercise, stimulation etc., is valid (and nothing new!), his methods can be extreme and just 'flattening' your dog for wrong behaviours may be effective in the short term, it is only going to come back and 'bite you on the bum' (possibly literally!), at a later stage, as the problem hasn't gone away, just been supressed. Better to train a different behaviour, and or work on the problem positively, which also builds a better relationship with your dog too you don't want your dog to be fearful of you.

Best of luck, you are trying hard to do it right, that's the important thing and it does get easier!

Kate


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

k8t said:


> Take Cesar Milan with a pinch of salt too, whilst what he says about routine, exercise, stimulation etc., is valid (and nothing new!), his methods can be extreme and *just 'flattening' your dog for wrong behaviours may be effective in the short term, it is only going to come back and 'bite you on the bum' (possibly literally!), at a later stage, as the problem hasn't gone away, just been suppressed. Better to train a different behaviour, and /or work on the problem positively, which also builds a better relationship with your dog too you don't want your dog to be fearful of you.*
> 
> Best of luck, you are trying hard to do it right, that's the important thing and it does get easier!


_in a nutshell! :thumbup: rep for that, kate! :thumbup1: 
excellent distillation, and a good sound caution, with credit where due.  _

very eloquent + succinct, that... :yesnod: 
--- terry


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## cpatel (Nov 3, 2007)

I think there are some great points made on here. 

Training and behaviour is not a regulated profession in the UK so there are a lot of (in my opinion) under qualified people offering their services. I find that a few of my clients have been else where, where it was cheaper. Feeling unsuccessful they ring around other people and if they ring me they often ask me why my fees are more expensive and will it work this time. 

Like some one already said we don't offer magic solutions and can only provide a personalised ("doable") plan and guidance through implementing the plan, re assessing the plan and troubleshooting where needed. If the client is does not follow through then they can't really expect to see many results even after spending lots of money. Also often good behaviour counsellors and trainer may cost more, so if people choose them based purely on cost you can't really be surprised if you are not that happy. Because we are not regulated there are many trainers and behaviour counsellors who go on many courses to continue their education and grow, while others feel they dont need to. A lot of these courses often cost a couple of £100 some around £1000. This is like any profession, where people have to be trained and educated to a certain standard then maintain and grow. So the price is obviously going to reflect this especially then there is no set standard to work as a trainer or behaviour counsellor. 

NB. This is not to say that all professionals who are more expensive are good or better. There are a lot of people who and charge clients a lot amounts of money for a very poor service at the same time there are also those who don't charge very much and offer an excellent service. 

As already mentioned there are organisations which should help people in search of trainer and behaviour counsellors.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

KatiBear said:


> @*leashedforLife* -
> 
> thanks for the links, very helpful...
> * I always wondered about those calming sprays though -
> ...


its official, kati - 
i am irritated with U. :confused1: if these were TRANQUILIZERS they would not be OTC purchases, 
they;d be prescription. they are NOT narcotics or ANY form of conventional DRUG. 

GOOGLE them for further info - there are things U can do for Urself. 
later, 
--- terry


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## KatiBear (Mar 4, 2010)

@leashedforlife 

Irritated? :/

I was purely asking if they would change your dog and make them 'too' calm and chilled out that's all. No need to attack me there  That's what this forum is for surely, to ask questions? 

I was just worried/concerned/curious as to 'how' they calm your dog, as it sounded like some kind of drug! Obviously as you said, they would not be OTC if they were, but I was just wondering that is all!


Thank you to everyone who replied - Our pup has actually gotten worse now and has even started barking at cars -
So my plan is to save up for the ""Stop!" How to control predatory chasing in dogs" book as suggested,
and I'm also planning on asking to borrow a family members car so that I can keep it in my drive way and walk him around it a few times a day over a course of time until he is comfortable, and go from there.


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## alphadog (Jan 29, 2009)

If you're still interested in seeking advice from a behaviourist (in my experience they have a more, let's say, 'holistic' approach to dealing with an unwanted behaviour than a Trainer per se) then here's another link for you.. Canine and Feline Behaviour Association

Don't be afraid to ring a few up and ask what their charges are - they'll have had that question a thousand times before! And most will travel long distances so be choosey and pick the one you feel drawn to the most.

Good luck with whichever route you take. Those books will certainly help - arm yourself with all the knowledge you can!


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