# Dogs being bought over from abroad for rescues



## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

I was wondering what peoples views are on the amount of "rescues" that are now popping up bringing dogs over here to be rehomed from overseas? it concerns me that as most rescues in this country are full to bursting are dogs being PTS as no space is available,? yet dogs are being bought over here to be rehomed,,, i know alot of dogs really suffer abroad but does that mean that dogs here stay in rescue longer,


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## LouLatch (Jul 2, 2012)

I think its great the work they do to rescue these poor dogs. But I also feel there are enough dogs in this country needing homes. As you say healthy dogs are being pts as they cant find homes, so why are we bringing more into the country??


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I have to agree that there are some dogs with no issues at all in UK rescues being PTS so I don't think we should bring in dogs from other countries. I also don't think there should be huge effort put into turning around aggressive dogs in rescues.

I can't really say much though as I haven't got rescue dogs.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Like you said there are thousands of dogs here in rescue and on death row in pound situations so is it fair to bring dogs from other countries here that take up rescue spaces that dogs here need ? Are the dogs here any less imprtant than the ones abroad ? Dogs being pts here because of no rescue spaces whilst other take their chance of a rescue space. Doesn't make sense to me. We should be sorting out our own problems first before taking on dogs from abroad. I have a foster dog here I've had her for 4 months because there is no home for her and there are thousands more here in the same situation, yes she's in foster but there are many in pounds, what happens when their 7 days is up ? And before anyone says anything I also have 2 rescues of my own


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

There are far too many dogs in rescues for this country to deal with, I think a harsher policy is needed across the board when it comes to dogs in general (everything from breeding to dog ownership as well as rescue policies). I certainly dont think we should be bringing dogs over from abroad.


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Like you said there are thousands of dogs here in rescue and on death row in pound situations so is it fair to bring dogs from other countries here that take up rescue spaces that dogs here need ? Are the dogs here any less imprtant than the ones abroad ? Dogs being pts here because of no rescue spaces whilst other take their chance of a rescue space. Doesn't make sense to me. We should be sorting out our own problems first before taking on dogs from abroad. I have a foster dog here I've had her for 4 months because there is no home for her and there are thousands more here in the same situation.


Nobody is saying that the dogs here are not important of course they are but im afraid they dont have to live in a society where there are 10s of 1000s of dogs roaming the street daily getting beaten run down and shot at , even being tossed onto the streets because they are black dogs,my rommie girl was found at 3 months old dumped at train depot, where her siblings had been getting hit from the trains i know of stories that would horrify you, in my eyes these rommie dogs need help just as much as the UK dogs so if it means there rescued and given forever homes in the UK so be it


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't know anymore, after the other thread I just don't think it would be for me now, if the rescues abroad where really carefully vetting dogs and homes then why not, but I think the problem is that this is not the case they are just taking street dogs, shoving them in kennels with 30 other dogs then someone picks them from a cute picture and sad story and they get the dog, they are told the dog is brilliant and has no issues but in reality the dog has never known a home environment, the dog is possessive and aggressive due to it's terrible life, it seem quite dangerous actually, both for the people their pets, and the rescue dog, if the rescue really took time to interact with the dog and assess the people in the home and their experience etc then it would be great after all it's another dog saved. 

I think the reason SOME people might go to rescue abroad is the home checks aren't so strict, for example if you work you can have the dog, maybe you live in a flat and can have the dog, maybe you don't have a garden but can have a dog. 

I think if rescues here would ease up on what you must have to get a dog and focused more on the person than the home/garden more people would stick to the uk I also think seeing tragic stories of an abused abandoned dog just makes you want to take it and help it.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Don't see any difference if getting a dog when living in London from say the Lake District and abroad. You could say, London has enough dogs needing rescue, you don't need to go further afield  It's simply a matter of distance and what distance is too far? A dog is a dog no matter what country it is from. 

The only concern I have is health issues, not simply for the dog in question. The rest depends on the rescue but you can say that about UK based rescues. Some are far better than others.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Tbh if someone is helping a dog I don`t care where the dog is from. If I decide to rescue a dog I will get one from abroad. Some breeds such as Podenco`s rarely pop up in UK rescues. And if in Spain say there is a dog great with other dogs and kids and a family over here is looking for a dog like that but hasn`t been able to find one over here then why not save a dogs life? 
Also abroad rescues are one of the few who would consider rehoming to me.
Why should an abroad rescue dog be killed (and trust me in a lot more violent way than over here) if a family wants a dog just like that but has to continue its search for a UK dog that suits whilst the perfect dog is killed abroad.
And with many abroad rescues the dogs aren`t put into the uk until they have a family; so they aren`t taking up kennel space.


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

So bascially people are saying because they are not from this country they dont deserve a chance of a better life they are not just coming here they go all over the EU well im sorry im a dog lover and i believe any dog no matter what country creed or colour deserve a better life!


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> I don't know anymore, after the other thread I just don't think it would be for me now, if the rescues abroad where really carefully vetting dogs and homes then why not, but I think the problem is that this is not the case they are just taking street dogs, shoving them in kennels with 30 other dogs then someone picks them from a cute picture and sad story and they get the dog, they are told the dog is brilliant and has no issues but in reality the dog has never known a home environment, the dog is possessive and aggressive due to it's terrible life, it seem quite dangerous actually, both for the people their pets, and the rescue dog, if the rescue really took time to interact with the dog and assess the people in the home and their experience etc then it would be great after all it's another dog saved.
> 
> I think the reason SOME people might go to rescue abroad is the home checks aren't so strict, for example if you work you can have the dog, maybe you live in a flat and can have the dog, maybe you don't have a garden but can have a dog.
> 
> I think if rescues here would ease up on what you must have to get a dog and focused more on the person than the home/garden more people would stick to the uk I also think seeing tragic stories of an abused abandoned dog just makes you want to take it and help it.


My home check was very strict but they, based it more on how we are as a family and pet owner and how our animals interact with each other and us then picking at us living in a ground floor flat and our garden which i think is the right way to go about it


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> Tbh if someone is helping a dog I don`t care where the dog is from. If I decide to rescue a dog I will get one from abroad. Some breeds such as Podenco`s rarely pop up in UK rescues. And if in Spain say there is a dog great with other dogs and kids and a family over here is looking for a dog like that but hasn`t been able to find one over here then why not save a dogs life?
> *Also abroad rescues are one of the few who would consider rehoming to me.*Why should an abroad rescue dog be killed (and trust me in a lot more violent way than over here) if a family wants a dog just like that but has to continue its search for a UK dog that suits whilst the perfect dog is killed abroad.
> And with many abroad rescues the dogs aren`t put into the uk until they have a family; so they aren`t taking up kennel space.


Doesnt that bit tell you something about them?


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Milliepoochie said:


> Doesnt that bit tell you something about them?


I don`t understand what you mean? I`m not rehoming anyway I think I`d always go for a puppy tbh even if I did rescue, I mean their polices aren`t so strict such as no kids under a certain age, no intact dogs etc
Of course several british rescues are the same


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

LolaBoo said:


> Nobody is saying that the dogs here are not important of course they are but im afraid they dont have to live in a society where there are 10s of 1000s of dogs roaming the street daily getting beaten run down and shot at , even being tossed onto the streets because they are black dogs,my rommie girl was found at 3 months old dumped at train depot, where her siblings had been getting hit from the trains i know of stories that would horrify you, in my eyes these rommie dogs need help just as much as the UK dogs so if it means there rescued and given forever homes in the UK so be it


I am well aware of what goes on thanks I volunteer for rescues and foster and there ate horror stories here too that's not exclusive to other countries, I've heatd that arguement countless times.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

I personally strongly disagree with it, it's not as if we have a shortage of rescue dogs here! When our own rescue crisis is sorted out, and there aren't hundreds of dogs already here who are being put to sleep each week then maybe we can help out other countries. But until then - it is not something I will support.

It is also part of the reason that my own dogs are now all vaccinated against rabies. I did it mainly because of the illegal puppies being imported, but also because of this new trend of rescuing dogs from abroad - these foreign rescues are apparently penniless, crying out for money - yet they can afford to get these dogs sorted the legit way with rabies vaccinations and passports, pay for kenneling fees for three weeks in the origin country before coming to the UK, and then the cost of someone transporting them over here? Er, right, ok!


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

I dont agree with bringing dogs into the country for rehoming purposes. 

I think sadly that bringing a dog int the coutnry has become and 'easier' alternative. 

Quite often (And not everytime) theres less home checks and less support. BUT owners are getting more challanging dogs so for your average owner this is a nightmare situation. 

I am also concerned about the fact that the UK is currently rabies free - But for how long? 

Look how many of these 'rescues' have popped up!  They may have all the right paperwork of course BUT how do you know they came by legitimate processes? 

The reason I dont like them is the way some of them work.

I think if there really are thousands and thousands of dogs living in daily pain / terror and discomfort in these pounds then I believe the money used to 'save' 1 dog could well have been used to ethicially put to sleep 20 or 30 dogs in a pain free way from their miserable existance. 

I think sometimes people need to remember not all dogs can be 'saved' and sometimes the ideal situation to help in the long rung isnt rosey and pretty. 

The UK has its own shameful rescue situation - lets sort that out first.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

LolaBoo said:


> My home check was very strict but they, based it more on how we are as a family and pet owner and how our animals interact with each other and us then picking at us living in a ground floor flat and our garden which i think is the right way to go about it


that's good, I'm not actually against rescues from abroad, had considered it myself after seeing/reading their stories but the other thread has made me think twice about behavioural issues that may not be disclosed, Apple is still only a baby so I am sure she will fit in great with you


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm not going to lie, I am really quite worried about the set ups over there.

I believe that they are cutting a lot of corners, they give the dogs over without knowing anything about the future homes these dogs are going to and whether the people are experienced enough for it, meaning they end up being given up or let out and left, such is some of the people they are handing over to. I don't mean the likes of SS on here, but there are others you can see have got one with no thought and then they re too much work, like Deeks, bless him.


I will also admit to being worried if they cut so many corners if they do infact inject against rabies, they lie about so much else, the paperwork is easy to forge and if they are being driven there are less checks then flying in.
These are feral dogs in countries where rabies is present, it worries me.

If they have money enough to transport and jab against rabies, I really don't know why the dogs in rescues are in such harrowing conditions.

Also agree with the others about the sheer numbers over here in rescues waiting for a home or else be put to sleep. If people see it easier to get a dog from abroad then here I think our situation will only get worse.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Canine K9 said:


> Tbh if someone is helping a dog I don`t care where the dog is from. If I decide to rescue a dog I will get one from abroad. Some breeds such as Podenco`s rarely pop up in UK rescues. And if in Spain say there is a dog great with other dogs and kids and a family over here is looking for a dog like that but hasn`t been able to find one over here then why not save a dogs life?
> Also abroad rescues are one of the few who would consider rehoming to me.
> Why should an abroad rescue dog be killed (and trust me in a lot more violent way than over here) if a family wants a dog just like that but has to continue its search for a UK dog that suits whilst the perfect dog is killed abroad.
> And with many abroad rescues the dogs aren`t put into the uk until they have a family; so they aren`t taking up kennel space.


But the problem is, they aren't perfect dogs - they are often passed off as such but you can't expect a dog that's lived its life outdoors never having anything but a negative experience (if any at all) with humans to be a perfect family dog. You would have to be extremely lucky for that to happen!



LolaBoo said:


> So bascially people are saying because they are not from this country they dont deserve a chance of a better life they are not just coming here they go all over the EU well im sorry im a dog lover and i believe any dog no matter what country creed or colour deserve a better life!


fgs, nobody is saying they don't deserve a chance - just that driving van loads of them over here is not gonna solve the problem, ever in a million years! They might be able to help a select few but the wider problem is still going to be there and is just going to go on forever and ever if this is the only way they want to do it. Of course they deserve a chance and they deserve better, I just don't think we should be bringing even more in whilst WE still have a massive issue ourselves. There are better ways and means to stopping the situation from continuing.



Milliepoochie said:


> Doesnt that bit tell you something about them?


Just what I was about to point out!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

A friend of mine has a rescue dog from Desperate Greekies. She arrived with lots of adjustment problems which were made worse when she went on the run for 4 months after a gate was left open at her first house. She's a gorgeous dog and one of Molly's great friends and an extremely brave dog but I do think she needed an experienced dog owner. She wasn't homed to one initially and my friend, our trainer, only rehomed her after the feral incident and it's taken her two years and still a lot of work in progress to take her out safely.

So on one side, this dog is lovely and had she not been here then I dare say her life would have been worse but there are so many dogs, like Molly and many rescues on here, who come from UK shelters which are bursting at the seams. It's an icky immigration argument with pets at stake but cultural difference aside, I think more needs to be done where dogs, cats etc are given a life in centres in those countries in safety and money made to educate the countries. Shipping dogs here without contributing to the source issue is a problem not just in animal rescue but lots of things like environmental issues - turn a blind eye. If the rescues involved in bring dogs over here made a donation to an appropriate charity that was providing neutering, spaying and educational awareness then fine, but creating space for it to be filled with feral pups isn't solving anything it's passing the buck. That doesn't help dog or cat welfare long term at all.

I said on Mese's thread I think that there is a cat sanctuary which does that in Greece and a programme in India too. It would stop our rescues in the UK being overloaded, encourage a more ethical policy of rescue and (here's hoping :rolleyes5 the RSCPA might be less stretched and more able to provide assistance here. Plus there it's debatable how focussed and structured these rescues are. They have to be monitored to protect our own pets from rabies and to ensure that if dogs must be brought to the UK it's done so safely.

However we know how much rescues here are desperate for donations, how feasible it is for donation to go abroad I don't know. Impossible I expect.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> I don`t understand what you mean? I`m not rehoming anyway I think I`d always go for a puppy tbh even if I did rescue, I mean their polices aren`t so strict such as no kids under a certain age, no intact dogs etc
> Of course several british rescues are the same


Do you really think they should rehome to a young a child? A feral dog who people with loads of experience in dogs, many years, cannot handle?


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

I have so many concerns about this especially after contacting a Spanish rescue that also had British dogs and being sent photographs with sad stories to basically pick a dog off the street to be caught and bought to me.

Yes these dogs are equally deserving of being saved however what is the extra cost, could that extra cost be spent on education and rehoming in that country. 

The extra money going to transport, passport and bring in foreign rescues could this money save 2 dogs here rather than 1 dog there? Is the Spanish Podenco puppy more deserving that 2 Greyhounds here?

Are we really helping the situation by removing dogs from countries with poor animal abuse records aren't we just making space for them to abuse without their Governments dealing with the issue?

I know of one rescue that is taking Irish puppy farm rejects that become too old for the puppy farm to sell at 9-18months old these dogs are then rescued by well meaning families for a premium rescue fee. These families wouldn't dream of buying from a puppy farm but are they adding to the issue?


I don't know the answer to these questions I'm posing them because they concern me.

Its such a difficult emotive subject.

I would love to see a 2 year ban on all dog breeding except for rare breeds. But I can't see that happening.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Its a bit like puppy farming; all the time people are happy to pick up, and profit from, the pieces, then when will it end? What motivation is there for governments and local authorities to step in and do something?

All the time overseas charities are happy to deal with the problem and ship dogs like cattle, then these countries wont act as they wont see that they need to.

I do wonder also, if its in the dogs best interest. Some are so utterly traumatised, that it could be considered cruel to put them through such a harrowing ordeal. Tbh, im sure a great deal would better off being PTS, and this fact highlighted to the world.

Id much rather charities used the money donated for educational purposes, and to highlight the suffering that happens, rather than merely mopping up after a never ending cultural issue.

These countries need to be shamed into action, not be helped via foreign aid all the time.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

No offense to anyone here, but how do you think threads like this make some people who have rescued from abroad feel?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I am a dog lover and I am against rescues from abroad.....

1000's of dog are PTS in the UK, 1000's of dogs in the UK are suffering cruelty and neglect and are living without the basic care...... We need to sort out our own back yard before we extend the hand to other countries, we can't even sort out our own dogs, but we are willing to help other countries.... 


Hmmmm just don't work for me.......... It also concerns me the way these dogs are rehomed, they seem to be picked abroad by the new owners and then shipped? The new owners really have no idea of the dogs behavioral problems and how they will manifest when the dog feels more "at home" after a few weeks, it's got to be an emotional nightmare for these dogs too


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> No offense to anyone here, but how do you think threads like this make some people who have rescued from abroad feel?


 

I should imagine as long as they are happy with their choice, then others opinions shouldn't matter.

The same could be said for any thread debating anything!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> No offense to anyone here, but how do you think threads like this make some people who have rescued from abroad feel?


The same way people feel when they are made to feel like poop for having a pedigree dog or showing, or having anything to do with the KC, or those who have opps litters, or mate dogs for no valid reasons, or people who get their dogs to young, or rehome dogs for what people deem not to be a valid reason, or have designer dogs, or cross breeds etc

I'm sure they have heard it 1000's times over. Good for everyone who does rescue dogs no matter where they are from, but I wish we would sort it at home first.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

SixStar said:


> I should imagine as long as they are happy with their choice, then others opinions shouldn't matter.
> 
> The same could be said for any thread debating anything!


I would imagine all these people condemning getting a dog from abroad would pee me off. At the end of the day they have saved a dogs life and rescued a dog, why should it matter where it came from? As someone with a very level head has said earlier, where does it end, are you wrong for getting a dog from the next county, the next region, Wales, Scotland or any other country? Perhaps we should only 'rightly' be allowed to rehome from the nearest rescue to us and if they don't have a dog that appeals to us tough luck? Not many dogs in UK centres appeal to me tbh.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Meezey said:


> The same way people feel when they are made to feel like poop for having a pedigree dog or showing, or having anything to do with the KC, or those who have opps litters, or mate dogs for no valid reasons, or people who get their dogs to young, or rehome dogs for what people deem not to be a valid reason, or have designer dogs, or cross breeds etc
> 
> I'm sure they have heard it 1000's times over. Good for everyone who does rescue dogs no matter where they are from, *but I wish we would sort it at home first*.


This is the bit that I can't get my head around no matter how you phrase it.No dog chooses to be born in a certain country or circumstance, just as people don't choose where they are born, so why exactly should they be treated any differently or get differential treatment because of that? Why are dogs down the road from me more worthy than dogs in France or Spain or Bolivia? They're all dogs.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I don't know about in the UK but in the community here getting a dog from Spain or Cyprus seems to be seen as the easy option because they rehome to pretty much anyone. The tierheims are often reluctant to rehome to British military families due to our track record of dumping our pets when we're posted out of Germany.

I don't so much have an issue with dogs being brought over from abroad, it's up to the adopter where they get a dog from imo. What I do have a problem with is the way these dogs are pushed and advertised. I've yet to see a single one (and I've seen hundreds if not thousands!) advertised with ANY problems. They are all perfect. House trained, obedient, loving, excellent with kids, dogs, cats, perfect family pet etc etc. Then when they're in their new home it seems the problems start and the new owners are ill equipped to deal with them. There is also very, very little back up offered. I looked into fostering for some of the ones here but not a cat in hells chance I'm afraid.

I don't think rounding up the dogs and shipping them to whoever wants them in another country is doing anything to solve the problem really. Sure it gets those individual dogs out of an awful situation but it doesn't address the ongoing problem does it? I also wonder whether it's the kindest thing for the dogs. Especially the older dogs who have lived on the streets for years and know nothing of the life of a normal pet dog. I honestly think that perhaps catching and neutering them then re-releasing would be kinder. Or, and I may be flamed for this, even humanely euthanising them.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> I would imagine all these people condemning getting a dog from abroad would pee me off. At the end of the day they have saved a dogs life and rescued a dog, why should it matter where it came from? As someone with a very level head has said earlier, where does it end, are you wrong for getting a dog from the next county, the next region, Wales, Scotland or any other country? Perhaps we should only 'rightly' be allowed to rehome from the nearest rescue to us and if they don't have a dog that appeals to us tough luck? Not many dogs in UK centres appeal to me tbh.


As I said, the same can be said for any topic - you'll always have others disagreeing with what you've said/done, and some people are in for a very stressful life if they get peed off or upset every time someone expresses an opinion that goes against theirs!

I am a firm believer in looking after our own


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Tigerneko said:


> But the problem is, they aren't perfect dogs - they are often passed off as such but you can't expect a dog that's lived its life outdoors never having anything but a negative experience (if any at all) with humans to be a perfect family dog. You would have to be extremely lucky for that to happen!
> 
> fgs, nobody is saying they don't deserve a chance - just that driving van loads of them over here is not gonna solve the problem, ever in a million years! They might be able to help a select few but the wider problem is still going to be there and is just going to go on forever and ever if this is the only way they want to do it. Of course they deserve a chance and they deserve better, I just don't think we should be bringing even more in whilst WE still have a massive issue ourselves. There are better ways and means to stopping the situation from continuing.
> 
> Just what I was about to point out!


I do think they glam them up a bit! But the point I was trying to make was if there is someone who can properly look after a troubled dog and they have found an abroad rescue has an ideal dog wouldn`t it be better for that dog to have a home rather than being killed? JMO :yesnod:


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## Wilmer (Aug 31, 2012)

My main concern is the rather shady way some of the smaller animal transporters behave. We (very briefly!) considered buying a pup from an overseas breeder and the conversation we had with a transporter was shocking. In that case, worming treatments were possibly being signed off by a "vet" (ie. the transporter) without being done - bad enough, but what if they are playing fast and loose with the rabies jab too! We've already acquired lungworm in the UK from people abusing the PETS scheme, what next?

My BiL was considering a Romanian rescue, but I discouraged him - they would be first time dog owners with children under 13 taking on a street dog (never been indoors, let alone housetrained) - is it really sensible for rescues to consider this combination? It sounded like a receipe for tears to me. I suggested he stuck with a responsible UK rescue that would match a dog to their circumstances.(they got a cat instead!)


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> Do you really think they should rehome to a young a child? A feral dog who people with loads of experience in dogs, many years, cannot handle?


I am not rehoming! I am using it as an example, of course common sense should be used.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> This is the bit that I can't get my head around no matter how you phrase it.No dog chooses to be born in a certain country or circumstance, just as people don't choose where they are born, so why exactly should they be treated any differently or get differential treatment because of that? Why are dogs down the road from me more worthy than dogs in France or Spain or Bolivia? They're all dogs.


They are indeed, BUT there are 1000's of dogs in the UK needing homes.. Wouldn't it be wonderful maybe we should start rehoming all our UK dogs abroad? Why would you need to look abroad with so many dogs in the UK, surely if you are so pro rescue and not about were the dogs from etc, then it appealing to you shouldn't be as important as it fitting in to your home and family and existing animals, than how it appeals to you.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> I am not rehoming! I am using it as an example, of course common sense should be used.


I didn't say you were. You said they were one of the only ones to rehome to you. I didn't accuse you of getting a dog from them, I just said that them rehoming a feral dog to a young girl with little experience with dogs would be a bad idea.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

redroses2106 said:


> I think the reason SOME people might go to rescue abroad is the home checks aren't so strict, for example if you work you can have the dog, maybe you live in a flat and can have the dog, maybe you don't have a garden but can have a dog.
> 
> I think if rescues here would ease up on what you must have to get a dog and focused more on the person than the home/garden more people would stick to the uk I also think seeing tragic stories of an abused abandoned dog just makes you want to take it and help it.


Totally agree with this and TBH I have thought of doing it for that reason - I work FT and many rescues won't rehome to me (blanket no & not interested in what I have in place) BUT .....

I honestly believe we shouldn't be bringing in dogs from outside the UK whilst we have thousands here who need homes & who are pts because homes can't be found

UK rescues need a big reality check - there are very few "perfect" homes where someone is home all day, there are no kids under 10, has a garden etc etc...

Yes I appreciate that any of the above might mean that a home isn't suitable for a particular dog ..... but it doesn't mean it isn't suitable for *all* dogs - it means dogs / people need matched up

It's all very well saying that they're not suitable but, and lets be honest here, if people really want a dog, they will get one .... if the UK rescues turn them down what are they going to do?

Buy them from BYB (keeping this business thriving) ...... get them from rescues abroad etc etc

I agree the conditions in some countries are truly horrific - but I honestly don't think us taking dogs off the street and bringing them here is the answer as it's really doing nothing to address the problems in those countries - surely we need to focus on educating people and neutering street dogs to cut the growing numbers


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> I didn't say you were. You said they were one of the only ones to rehome to you. I didn't accuse you of getting a dog from them, I just said that them rehoming a feral dog to a young girl with little experience with dogs would be a bad idea.


From chatting to them yes they would, but they would still homecheck etc. Same with a few uk rescues. I Do have little experince with dogs and yes I am young, but if I was an adult with little exp would you say the same? Just because I have little exp doesn`t mean I couldn`t handle a troubled dog- doesn`t mean I could either. JS. Lots of dog exp doesn`t neccasarily mean better. Someone I know has had dogs for about 30-40 years. Yet they couldn`t even teach their Lab puppy to sit. Obviously age comes into it slightly, but my parents do help me with the dog and they are adults?
I will stick to puppies anyway
ETA: Some UK rescues for refusing to rehome to me without even meeting me or my dog was because my male is intact.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> No offense to anyone here, but how do you think threads like this make some people who have rescued from abroad feel?


I can't speak for everyone, but it doesn't bother me TBH, I am a thick skinned little b*gger 

I'm sure there are people on here who are disgusted with me for paying £400 for a registered pedigree Siamese cat from a breeder, that money could've helped a lot of needy rescue kitties no doubt!

There are valid points on both sides of the argument. I can honestly say though that the idea of putting a street dog in a home that has no experience & hasn't researched into the potential traits is very worrying, but if someone does their research thoroughly & goes through the correct channels, then at the end of the day they've rescued a dog, & they have my respect, & where it originated from is immaterial


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Milliepoochie said:


> Doesnt that bit tell you something about them?


Actually I don't think it does.

When people say that rescues are too stringent usually they are referring to the big rescues, Battersea, Dogs Trust, Breed rescues etc.

There are many small UK rescues who will home where the big rescues won't.

The rescues bringing in the rommies and greekies are very small so will look at every case individually as opposed to just having blanket policies.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> No offense to anyone here, but how do you think threads like this make some people who have rescued from abroad feel?


As SixStar said.... probably the same as anti-pedigree, anti-showing, anti-crufts threads make me feel... not at all bothered! Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And so far i'm quite enjoying this debate - it is good to hear views on both sides and things have managed to stay fairly calm. There are FAR more people with the same view as me than I thought, I really thought I was the only one that feels uncomfortable about these foreign rescues.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> From chatting to them yes they would, but they would still homecheck etc. Same with a few uk rescues. I Do have little experince with dogs and yes I am young, but if I was an adult with little exp would you say the same? Just because I have little exp doesn`t mean I couldn`t handle a troubled dog- doesn`t mean I could either. JS. Lots of dog exp doesn`t neccasarily mean better. Someone I know has had dogs for about 30-40 years. Yet they couldn`t even teach their Lab puppy to sit. Obviously age comes into it slightly, but my parents do help me with the dog and they are adults?
> I will stick to puppies anyway
> ETA: Some UK rescues for refusing to rehome to me without even meeting me or my dog was because my male is intact.


Yes I would tbh.

It isn't just your age, however you have to understand that any rescue to offer a young girl a dog that needs a lot of help is very irresponsible of them. You have school all day and then homework, maybe a job soon and an undecided future that could involve moving away.

But the lack of experience is a big one for me, less then a year with a puppy is completely different then a feral dog imo. I will confess to having 27 years of experience with dogs and I wouldn't be able to take one on, so I really admire people like SS who can help these dogs who are so traumatised they can barely move without flinching. It isn't for everyone and really shouldn't be either.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Tigerneko said:


> As SixStar said.... probably the same as anti-pedigree, anti-showing, anti-crufts threads make me feel... not at all bothered! Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And so far i'm quite enjoying this debate - it is good to hear views on both sides and things have managed to stay fairly calm. There are FAR more people with the same view as me than I thought, I really thought I was the only one that feels uncomfortable about these foreign rescues.


I am enjoying it too, I didn't know how to open one up but it kept getting debated on other threads, so at last!!

Thanks op, really interesting thread!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

goodvic2 said:


> Actually I don't think it does.
> 
> When people say that rescues are too stringent usually they are referring to the big rescues, Battersea, Dogs Trust, Breed rescues etc.
> 
> ...


PS Just seen Bruno in your sig,he looks lovely.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Interesting that so many people have such strong opinions on the foreign street dogs and their temperament or the way the rescues work.

We obviously have a lot of lovely people on here who volunteer their time to these rescues, in order to have so much to say about it 

Dogs in the UK are PTS humanely, the same cannot be said for the rommies/greekies etc

By helping these dogs they are in fact educating the public. They don't just pick the dog off the streets. The dogs are held in shelters in that country, often using locals as volunteers.

By homing dogs and helping out these countries we are in fact shaming them as we are dealing with their problem

You will also find that a lot of these rescues spend a lot of time writing to the local government and highlighting the problem.

I think anybody who homes a dog should get a pat on the back. The easiest thing in the world is to go and buy a puppy but these people are taking on a dog with an unknown history and giving it a better life.

I would like to say a big THANK YOU to you all. :dita:


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> From chatting to them yes they would, but they would still homecheck etc. Same with a few uk rescues. I Do have little experince with dogs and yes I am young, but if I was an adult with little exp would you say the same?


Actually I would. Having seen some of the stories on here and knowing the kind of background these dogs have come from I would be very wary of any rescue who would consider reforming a feral dog to an inexperienced owner. Yes, they MAY be able to deal with any issues that may arise but it is not very likely.

This is the main issue I have with foreign rescues, that they often present their dogs as perfect (and logically, given the conditions they are often rescued from, you would expect at least SOME problems) and they do not vet potential adopters particularly rigorously.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I actually dont agree with it strange coming from someone who has only ever owned rescues,but our rescues small,large,or medium are bursting at the seams and there are not and never will be enough people to adopt them so many are needlessly PTS,I am not going to rattle on about puppy farms in the UK but first we need to get our own house in order


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Phoolf said:


> PS Just seen Bruno in your sig,he looks lovely.


LOL thank you . He's been with us nearly 5 months and is still looking for his forever home x


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> Yes I would tbh.
> 
> It isn't just your age, however you have to understand that any rescue to offer a young girl a dog that needs a lot of help is very irresponsible of them. You have school all day and then homework, maybe a job soon and an undecided future that could involve moving away.
> 
> But the lack of experience is a big one for me, less then a year with a puppy is completely different then a feral dog imo. I will confess to having 27 years of experience with dogs and I wouldn't be able to take one on, so I really admire people like SS who can help these dogs who are so traumatised they can barely move without flinching. It isn't for everyone and really shouldn't be either.


Thanks for the lovely response  I do already have a job otherwise I`d never be able to afford my dog! Of course a puppy and feral dog is different, thinking rationally it is probably a risk I`d never take at the moment. I think perhaps I could but then I honestly don`t know, so it would be unfair of me to take one on.


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## cavmad (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm afraid i dont agree with bringing dogs into this country when we have such a problem here and dogs are being PTS everyday or are still in kennels because of groups bringing extra dogs over. There is one rescue i know that takes van full every week about 30-40 and then when asked to take the local dogs they cant surely this cant be right . People dump their dogs or have them PTS because they cant find places for them.The same rescue also bring about the same number from Ireland from the puppy farms when other rescues are really struggling to make room for the local dogs that they cant take. 
As highlighted on here there is no way to see if your dog/s will get on and i have heard of several cases when it hasnt worked out and the rescue havent been at all helpful most people dont want to live with their dogs seperated all their lives its not what most people want. 
I do feel sorry for the dogs and i consider myself a dog lover and will try to help my local rescue with mainly Cavs from the puppy farms as i know that they will fit in with my situation.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

suewhite said:


> I actually dont agree with it strange coming from someone who has only ever owned rescues,but our rescues small,large,or medium are bursting at the seams and there are not and never will be enough people to adopt them so many are needlessly PTS,I am not going to rattle on about puppy farms in the UK but first we need to get our own house in order


I can't agree with you there sue. Unless people here think from personal experience with me, online or off, that I'm unsuitable for a dog, then surely rescues are a bit too strict in some cases? Unless I'm not good enough for dog I have (which I can't quite believe, seeing Kes so happy), I can't see why some rescues won't rehome to me, and many will not. So there are suitable homes out there, they're just not given the chance.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

emmaviolet said:


> Yes I would tbh.
> 
> But the lack of experience is a big one for me, less then a year with a puppy is completely different then a feral dog imo. I will confess to having 27 years of experience with dogs and I wouldn't be able to take one on, so I really admire people like SS who can help these dogs who are so traumatised they can barely move without flinching. It isn't for everyone and really shouldn't be either.


I wouldn't say you COULDN'T, you just choose not too. 

If you put your mind to it then you can achieve pretty much anything.

Give it a go


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

goodvic2 said:


> LOL thank you . He's been with us nearly 5 months and is still looking for his forever home x


Oooh tempting! :001_wub:


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I
> 
> By homing dogs and helping out these countries we are in fact shaming them as we are dealing with their problem


Just to quote this, I don't think they are shamed as they don't care enough. You can only shame people if they care.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> I don`t understand what you mean? I`m not rehoming anyway I think I`d always go for a puppy tbh even if I did rescue, I mean their polices aren`t so strict such as no kids under a certain age, no intact dogs etc
> Of course several british rescues are the same


Personally I think its extremely worrying that as you say UK rescue wont let ou have a dog but a foreign rescue will.

I dont see it as a good thing- I think its frietening that people consider a Romanian dog for example because uk rescue wont pass them. People need to conside WHY.

Getting a dog from abroad shoult NOT be an 'easier' option than a uk rescue.

It shows there home checks are not as vigerous and the fact they happily seem to rehome to multi pet house holds and ones with children is daunting for the most experienced handler let alone you average family.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> I wouldn't say you COULDN'T, you just choose not too.
> 
> If you put your mind to it then you can achieve pretty much anything.
> 
> Give it a go


No I know I couldn't sadly.

I realise what I am capable of and plan accordingly. I wouldn't want to be one of the ones who has to give the poor thing up.

I know my limitations.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> Unless I'm not good enough for dog I have (which I can't quite believe, seeing Kes so happy), I can't see why some rescues won't rehome to me, and many will not. So there are suitable homes out there, they're just not given the chance.


Totally agree .... I had one UK rescue say they'd be happy to place one of their long term "problem" dogs with me - but they wouldn't let me have one of their "normal" dogs 

So ..... do I take it that they saw a knowledgeable, experienced dog owner who would work with a difficult dog and provide a good home for them OR do I take it that they wanted to get one of their "problem" dogs off their hands?

Now .... that may sound really harsh BUT surely if I'm knowledgeable and experienced enough to provide a good home for a difficult dog - then I should be just as able to provide a good home for a "normal" dog?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> Thanks for the lovely response  I do already have a job otherwise I`d never be able to afford my dog! Of course a puppy and feral dog is different, thinking rationally it is probably a risk I`d never take at the moment. I think perhaps I could but then I honestly don`t know, so it would be unfair of me to take one on.


I don't know if I have offended by my post by your first sentence.

I meant full time work, obviously you are still in school for now. If they would rehome to a child in school who also has a job I would find it even more worrying as these dogs need a lot of work and time. The same with a breeder, they should never home a puppy to a child at school, it should always be the parents dog.

Yes it most likely would be unfair.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Milliepoochie said:


> Personally I think its extremely worrying that as you say UK rescue wont let ou have a dog but a foreign rescue will.
> 
> I dont see it as a good thing- I think its frietening that people consider a Romanian dog for example because uk rescue wont pass them. People need to conside WHY.
> 
> ...


I have spoken to 2 or 3 UK ones and a few overseas ones. I had reasons such as kids too young, my male dog is intact, I will be doing most dog care
Of course if I was incapable of taking care of a dog, I would not have a happy, well trained dog as I do. I think ALL rescues should meet potential owners before deciding rather than blanket rules. 
I do not see an abroad rescue as easier in any way, just because I said "some Uk rescues won`t pass me" doesn`t mean I`m a moron who cannot own any dog . I will not get a rescue anyway for many years yet.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> I don't know if I have offended by my post by your first sentence.
> 
> I meant full time work, obviously you are still in school for now. If they would rehome to a child in school who also has a job I would find it even more worrying as these dogs need a lot of work and time. The same with a breeder, they should never home a puppy to a child at school, it should always be the parents dog.
> 
> Yes it most likely would be unfair.


No you haven`t offended me, nothing to get offended about  
Tbh I don`t understand it when people say that I cannot own a dog because of my age. So is Bailey my parents dog despite ME paying for him, training him, walking him etc? My next dog will be a puppy from a breeder.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> I can't agree with you there sue. Unless people here think from personal experience with me, online or off, that I'm unsuitable for a dog, then surely rescues are a bit too strict in some cases? Unless I'm not good enough for dog I have (which I can't quite believe, seeing Kes so happy), I can't see why some rescues won't rehome to me, and many will not. So there are suitable homes out there, they're just not given the chance.


I do understand your point and would agree that a lot of rescue have this set stereotype of who can adopt I have argued this with them many times.I do a lot of work with puppy farm rescuing and hate having to choose who will be taken and who will be left to the fate that I know they are destined for.All dogs are important wherever they come from and yes rescues and home checkers should give a little lee way,you have proved that with Kes


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

LahLahsDogs said:


> I am also of the opinion that it's great that some foreign dogs are getting a chance of a better life, but then again there are 1000s of UK dogs being pts because there are no homes or rescue places available. Fantastic that they get a new home, but they don't always do proper home checks and matched to suitable owners and it often doesn't work out because their new foreign street dog is pretty much a wild animal.
> 
> Foreign rescue dogs seems to be the new craze now, and for people who don't know how bad the UK rescue situation is, they might see getting a foreign dog as a really good thing to do.. exciting even!!
> 
> ...


God I hadn't thought of that but you could be right.

Also good on those foreign rescues who do a great job and perhaps make British rescues rethink their policies and communication skills.

Re: British rescues communications:-

I tried for 5 rescue dogs they were either rehomed and the board not updated or the rescue never called me back. Nobody in the UK rescues bother to say oh we have this dog that might suit you.

One dog disappeared from our local rescue after I contacted them and received no answer and then my husband contacted them and was also ignored. The dog then appeared at another rescue to our confusion and then a few weeks later was back at our local rescue. We again emailed them but couldn't get a telephone answer.

I'm at home all day we have visiting children only and had experience of the breed. However I hadn't access to a car so I couldn't appear on their doorstep. I still don't know what happened to this poor dog who was bounced around for 2 months while we sat wanting to give him a home.

Another dog I phoned 8 times left messages, emailed and received no answer. finally after I complained on their Facebook page they rang me and said the dog had been rehomed. At that point I looked at foreign rescues. Fortunately I ended up with a dog that a friend heard about who was in need of a home and privately rehomed.

Now I'm sure people will look at my post and mutter there's something about her those rescues knew. She's a bad person, she has convictions but I can assure you there is nothing. I have great vet references I'm well known for my assistance to others in our community. I honestly think we have the ideal situation. My only issue is that I'm allergic to short haired breeds such as the Labrador so need a long haired dog or poodle type coat.

I still would like to think that we should sort our issues in our own country first but faced with helping no dog or a dog I can understand why foreign rescues are some peoples choice.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> No you haven`t offended me, nothing to get offended about
> Tbh I don`t understand it when people say that I cannot own a dog because of my age. So is Bailey my parents dog despite ME paying for him, training him, walking him etc? My next dog will be a puppy from a breeder.


Well they bought him and from your other posts buy his food as you said you was on an allowance and they woudn't buy a collar.

They also set the rules as to where he can go in the house. If he were to be very ill they would most likely pay for it.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> No you haven`t offended me, nothing to get offended about
> Tbh I don`t understand it when people say that I cannot own a dog because of my age. So is Bailey my parents dog despite ME paying for him, training him, walking him etc? My next dog will be a puppy from a breeder.


I think because people know your quite young (14?) and realistically if Bailey were ill you couldn't pay the bills - as Im guessing you don't have a credit card and his insurance cant be in your name. 

Personally when I was living at home our pets were 'family' pets. No one 'owned' them.

So no insult intended I would see Bailey as a family dog because of my points above and how I was bought up.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

emmaviolet said:


> Well they bought him and from your other posts buy his food as you said you was on an allowance and they woudn't buy a collar.
> 
> They also set the rules as to where he can go in the house. If he were to be very ill they would most likely pay for it.


He was my Xmas gift- shoot me. They don`t buy his food at all I do? They might buy a tray or two from time but thats because they want to. No they wouldn`t buy a collar, as that time I had no money left over and they said your dog you buy it. Yes they set rules stricter than I`d like really, but this isn`t a case of their dog but their house. I have insurance


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Milliepoochie said:


> I think because people know your quite young (14?) and realistically if Bailey were ill you couldn't pay the bills - as Im guessing you don't have a credit card and his insurance cant be in your name.
> 
> Personally when I was living at home our pets were 'family' pets. No one 'owned' them.
> 
> So no insult intended I would see Bailey as a family dog because of my points above and how I was bought up.


I`m 15. He has insurance and no its not in my name but I do pay for it. He isn`t a family dog, we all see him as my dog.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Canine K9 said:


> He was my Xmas gift- shoot me. They don`t buy his food at all I do? They might buy a tray or two from time but thats because they want to. No they wouldn`t buy a collar, as that time I had no money left over and they said your dog you buy it. Yes they set rules stricter than I`d like really, but this isn`t a case of their dog but their house. I have insurance


But the insurance isn't in your name and there is an excess, more then the cost of a collar.

Also when a dog is bought into a house, if the adults decided they no longer wanted the dog, there is not much a child could do.

He is a family dog who is yours to love.

Ps. I don't mind he was an xmas present, my rough when I was ten was got after our other one died and he was bought for me as a birthday present, but was the families dog, but I made a lot of the calls for him when I was very young and all as I got older. We were a big dog family though, so everyone loved and claimed the dogs at any time anyway.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

goodvic2 said:


> Interesting that so many people have such strong opinions on the foreign street dogs and their temperament or the way the rescues work.
> 
> We obviously have a lot of lovely people on here who volunteer their time to these rescues, in order to have so much to say about it
> 
> ...


I do my bit for Rottweiler Rescue, have foster lots of GSD's, help rescues with cat and kitten fostering, so I've done a bit 

Again I said in a previous post anyone who rescue's deserves a pat on the back, take nothing from them at all, it a wonderful thing.

My issue is we have have a rescue problem on our own doorstep, should we get our own house in order, and shame our own people in to help our dogs, before we offer the hand to other countries?


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> Actually I don't think it does.
> 
> When people say that rescues are too stringent usually they are referring to the big rescues, Battersea, Dogs Trust, Breed rescues etc.
> 
> ...


Ohh I know - Im sure many rescues big or small wouldn't touch me with a barge pole 

BUT the point that poster made was foreign rescues are good because UK rescues wont consider them is worrying - I think anyway. They need a special home - an experienced home not a home who went that route as it was easier and becaue they could.

I'm sure there are some very very good rescues who provide adequate support and strict checks etc but im sure there's plenty who pull on the heart strings and are tempted to rehome to a less than ideal home- after ll its another dog on the 'saved' page on their sites.

Its like everything in life - there's good and bad. It must be soul destroying for those good rescues but it does seem to be becoming more popular and I find it worrying a family with children wold consider it a route to get a dog because UK rescues said no.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> BUT the point that poster made was foreign rescues are good because UK rescues wont consider them is worrying - I think anyway. They need a special home - an experienced home not a home who went that route as it was easier and becaue they could.
> (


I just wanted to highlight this again, just because a thought came to me.

It is ironic that those people who go this way because it is easier, and this is not everyone who does it, some do it to help because of the situation.

But those who do it because it is easier, obviously find an easier way in rescuing but then find themselves with a more difficult dog.

This is where the problem is, if it is seen as too easy so anyone can get a dog who wants one, this is wrong as these dogs on the whole need much more work then rescue dogs from the uk and the average dog.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Meezey said:


> I'm sure they have heard it 1000's times over. Good for everyone who does rescue dogs no matter where they are from, but I wish we would sort it at home first.


So how far is "home".. 10 miles, 100 miles? Where's the line?

What are the chances of the rescue situation getting sorted unless there is a major change in social attitudes? It is possible for a country not to have a rescue problem. Why does a nation of animal lovers? Maybe it's partly the "island mentality"


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## RosedeneRescueWalsall (May 4, 2013)

I do agree with above posts agreeing with bringing dogs over.
Yes, rescues are filled to bursting, mainly with bull breeds. The reason? Overbreeding and _not many people want a bull breed._ There are waiting lists for many breeds in our rescue such as labs, and nice smaller cross breeds which we rarely get in. So, if someone doesn't want a bull breed for whatever reason, I tell them to check out Romanian Underdogs. One of those dogs could have a home instead. Saves them being in kennels for weeks/months. They generally have such a nice temperament and some are so unusual they are desirable.

People don't always want a 'typical' breed that are in rescues so instead of going to a breeder and getting a puppy, surely it's better if they offer a home to a rescue dog, no matter if it's from abroad?


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Milliepoochie said:


> Ohh I know - Im sure many rescues big or small wouldn't touch me with a barge pole
> 
> BUT the point that poster made was foreign rescues are good because UK rescues wont consider them is worrying - I think anyway. They need a special home - an experienced home not a home who went that route as it was easier and becaue they could.
> 
> ...


But I couldn't even get assessed by our 2 local rescues and I'm the perfect rescue dog home, couple, no children, garden, experienced. Who is to say some of those rejected people aren't also like me? My only fault no car in the week to turn up on the door step rattling the gate.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> Ohh I know - Im sure many rescues big or small wouldn't touch me with a barge pole
> 
> BUT the point that poster made was foreign rescues are good because UK rescues wont consider them is worrying - I think anyway. They need a special home - an experienced home not a home who went that route as it was easier and becaue they could.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with this.

Yes, some rescues here are a bit OTT, trying to find the perfect home. In their defence they want to make sure the dog isn't pushed around from pillar to post anymore, and want to place it in a safe and forever home.

But it makes me shudder to think that someone who lives in a flat or is out at work 9 - 5 every day could adopt a feral or even semi feral dog from a different country. Imagine a dog who has been living on the streets being coped up all day, or with no regular access to outdoor space? It would be worse than putting it in a kennel, and surely a recipe for disaster behaviour wise.

People in flats, or who work, can make living with a dog work - and this is where the rescues who have blanket policies go wrong. But placing a dog that has been assessed as suitable in this type of situation (or bringing up a pup to expect nothing else) is one thing, bringing in a dog who is totally unsuitable for that way of life is another.

What worries me is that some people have their heart set on getting a rescue dog for all the right motives, get very upset by being turned down a number of times by UK rescues, and then look abroad as the answer. And like another poster said earlier - how many of these dogs will then end up in UK rescues as the new owner couldn't cope?

I don't have any experience of a feral dog, but I adopted a feral kitten as my first cat many years ago. She had very different views on a house than other cats, and was never completely housetrained. She'd hunt - for food, not for play. She was a fantastic companion, more dog like in her affection, but very different to the house cats I had later.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Picklelily said:


> But I couldn't even get assessed by our 2 local rescues and I'm the perfect rescue dog home, couple, no children, garden, experienced. Who is to say some of those rejected people aren't also like me? My only fault no car in the week to turn up on the door step rattling the gate.


I cant argue for why rescues say no and that wasn't my point lol  I know rescues can have ott rehoming procedures.

My point was 'some' overseas 'rescues' seem to happily ship you a dog when you pay the money - no controlled introductions, no knowing if itl be ok in a home environment or how itl get on with domesticated dogs and expect you to pick your dog up from a service station.

Not the ideal situ for a lot of dog owners.

Again I know some do things properly but sadly they all don't.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Goblin said:


> So how far is "home".. 10 miles, 100 miles? Where's the line?
> 
> What are the chances of the rescue situation getting sorted unless there is a major change in social attitudes? It is possible for a country not to have a rescue problem. Why does a nation of animal lovers? Maybe it's partly the "island mentality"


There are no chances of getting the UK rescue situation sorted while we are bailing out other countries, we have just been told in this thread that it's done to SHAME the other countries, so we are willing to shame another country in to doing something about their animal welfare, but we can just sit back and allow our dogs in out own country suffer..

HOME is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, you know the country you can travel round without a passport....

If I was living back in Germany then that would be home and I'd help dogs there, if I move to the US I will help dogs there...

Island Mentality? Seeing as I've lived all over the world, I'd be a bit hard pushed to suffer that


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> I don't know about in the UK but in the community here getting a dog from Spain or Cyprus seems to be seen as the easy option because they rehome to pretty much anyone. The tierheims are often reluctant to rehome to British military families due to our track record of dumping our pets when we're posted out of Germany.


I can actually look at it from more of an average German perspective rather than as a military visitor. Daisy and Cooper are both foreign rescue dogs although from Hungary and there was no difference in the checks required between them and Benny, a German rescue dog. In fact they were really careful with homing Daisy as they wanted to make sure that it went to a home not looking for a status symbol.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

Milliepoochie said:


> Ohh I know - Im sure many rescues big or small wouldn't touch me with a barge pole
> 
> BUT the point that poster made was foreign rescues are good because UK rescues wont consider them is worrying - I think anyway. They need a special home - an experienced home not a home who went that route as it was easier and becaue they could.
> 
> ...


I did NOT say they are good because uk rescues won't rehome I said it could be a more ideal situation


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2013)

I personally would always prefer to rescue from the uk, I think, there doesn't always seem to be much back from abroad ones. 
I was 18 when I adopted Zand and I had many interviews and things and it took them a while but they eventually let me after discussing it thoroughly. I am still in contact with the original homing officer and I update her of our progress good or bad. 

Ev really really off topic but aren't you only in your 20's? how can you have 27 years experience? Not sure if anything under the age of 3-4 counts memory wise. :lol: (Not a dig btw)


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Goblin said:


> So how far is "home".. 10 miles, 100 miles? Where's the line?
> 
> What are the chances of the rescue situation getting sorted unless there is a major change in social attitudes? It is possible for a country not to have a rescue problem. Why does a nation of animal lovers? Maybe it's partly the "island mentality"


For me home is UK because we have welfare laws in place that apparently  allow the RSCPA to prosecute. That's different to countries even within the EU whose laws differ. I strongly feel that we already have a massive issue with educating people in this country on how to look after a dog, on top of which is the breedist problem and the dangerous dogs act debate.

I am honestly not sure they're coming to a better life half the time and feel so strongly that long term it's not viable. Take 100 dogs out of say Greece and not contribute to welfare in any form towards the dogs that are left or educate the negative culture and it's like the Sorcerer's Apprentice, the water keeps rising. At some point the wizard has to come along and reverse it. That's an appalling analogy but the best I can do right now


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Meezey said:


> There are no chances of getting the UK rescue situation sorted while we are bailing out other countries


Yet that is only a recent development. To put it simply, society isn't prepared to change and the problem is hidden as much as possible. That is the problem. To say otherwise is simply an excuse.

Edit: If you live on the Ireland/NI border.. rescue 10 miles away but in the other country.. why not rescue from there?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

LurcherOwner said:


> I personally would always prefer to rescue from the uk, I think, there doesn't always seem to be much back from abroad ones.
> I was 18 when I adopted Zand and I had many interviews and things and it took them a while but they eventually let me after discussing it thoroughly. I am still in contact with the original homing officer and I update her of our progress good or bad.
> 
> Ev really really off topic but aren't you only in your 20's? how can you have 27 years experience? Not sure if anything under the age of 3-4 counts memory wise. :lol: (Not a dig btw)


I have been raised with dogs, I am twenty seven.

I count all years I lived with them as I have been around them my whole life. I think growing up with dogs teaches you a lot about how you handle them day to day and touch and teach them.

I think the first three years do count for something, although not raising a dog, I learnt to walk around them, they are a large part of me for the fact of having been with them from day one.

ETA, I have no qualifications in animal care, however my vet has expressed a desire for me to run part of his clinic because of my way with animals.

No, it didn't seem like a dig at all.


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## Doodler (May 20, 2012)

Am I being cynical in thinking that some would consider it some sort of social kudos in declaring that they rescued the dog from (insert country of choice).
If it was the only means of obtaining a (legal or otherwise) breed not to found in the UK then I would say there is some justification,but I would still consider it some sort of social/fashion statement.

Given the vareity of breeds in the UK the surely you can satisfy your needs at home,thats where charity begins,isnt it?

eddie


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

In the Uk they wouldnt except us even if we had tried which we didnt, we have a huge grassed communal garden which is safe and were in a ground floor flat so they would have said no straight away, isnt how you are with your animals more important then where you live


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Goblin said:


> Yet that is only a recent development. To put it simply, society isn't prepared to change and the problem is hidden as much as possible. That is the problem. To say otherwise is simply an excuse.
> 
> Edit: If you live on the Ireland/NI border.. rescue 10 miles away but in the other country.. why not rescue from there?


What and suddenly people think that they can change the mind of a different nation and it's going to make a huge difference? If the residents of a country can't change peoples out look on animal welfare, how arrogant are we to think we can? if we can't help change the UK's outlook then how are we going to change someone else's? I don't understand what you are trying to say?

What is a recent development?

Because again we have enough problems of our own, the battle about Irish dogs in the UK is an on going one, it's always been a battle..... I don't agree with it either...


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Goblin said:


> I can actually look at it from more of an average German perspective rather than as a military visitor. Daisy and Cooper are both foreign rescue dogs although from Hungary and there was no difference in the checks required between them and Benny, a German rescue dog. In fact they were really careful with homing Daisy as they wanted to make sure that it went to a home not looking for a status symbol.


Whereas the checks we went through and failed for what still seems a bizarre reason with the local tierheim were much more stringent than the ones the Cyprus rescues I see advertising on the military pages do. I see a lot of people saying to those looking for a rescue dog out here "oh the tierheims don't like to adopt to us, check out this rescue, they rehome to military families" and link to one of the Cyprus rescues that's always advertising. Can't speak for the German community but in the forces community it definitely seems to be seen as the route to go down if you don't specifically want a puppy.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Milliepoochie said:


> I cant argue for why rescues say no and that wasn't my point lol  I know rescues can have ott rehoming procedures.
> 
> My point was 'some' overseas 'rescues' seem to happily ship you a dog when you pay the money - no controlled introductions, no knowing if itl be ok in a home environment or how itl get on with domesticated dogs and expect you to pick your dog up from a service station.
> 
> ...


My point is that they didn't even say no they ignored any communication or failed to follow up contacts note this was 2 rescues not one.

The foreign rescue quickly sent me an assessment form obviously read it then sent me 4 pages of pick a dog any dog. If I hadn't had so much experience then I might have been sitting here with a foreign hooligan instead of an evil British teddy bear.

Our rescues are perhaps forcing the situation and thereby filling their kennels in the future.

So again it comes down to our home rescues getting sorted out. How hard is it to create an automatic email response to enquires. Damned easy.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

LolaBoo said:


> In the Uk they wouldnt except us even if we had tried which we didnt, we have a huge grassed communal garden which is safe and were in a ground floor flat so they would have said no straight away, isnt how you are with your animals more important then where you live


You never even tried so you can't say that for sure. There are rescues in the UK who will rehome to people in flats. You just have to put a bit more effort into finding them sometimes.


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> You never even tried so you can't say that for sure. There are rescues in the UK who will rehome to people in flats. You just have to put a bit more effort into finding them sometimes.


As i said we were not intrested in adopting from this country we went down the route we wanted to which included home checks and long conversations with the charity, i have no desire to adopt from this country , people who do fair enough but we didnt!

It dosnt bother me what people think of us adopting from Romania we have done it for the right reasons


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Doodler said:


> *Am I being cynical in thinking that some would consider it some sort of social kudos in declaring that they rescued the dog from (insert country of choice)*.
> If it was the only means of obtaining a (legal or otherwise) breed not to found in the UK then I would say there is some justification,but I would still consider it some sort of social/fashion statement.
> 
> Given the vareity of breeds in the UK the surely you can satisfy your needs at home,thats where charity begins,isnt it?
> ...


I've no doubt some people would, if it's the case I don't know any of them personally, & I know quite a few people with Rommie rescue dogs these days (Rogue's 8 siblings just for starters!).

Same can be said with anything though, some people do dog sports for the kudos, or show, choose a certain breed or (insert lifestyle choice of, um, choice  ).


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Does it really matter what `everyone`s` views are? Those whose compassion crosses frontiers will rescue wherever there is need and those who think charity begins at home will look locally. 
Sadly, there is room - and need - for all who rescue. 
Perhaps those who make nasty comments about others could begin by questioning their own motives?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

LolaBoo said:


> As i said we were not intrested in adopting from this country we went down the route we wanted to which included home checks and long conversations with the charity, i have no desire to adopt from this country , people who do fair enough but we didnt!
> 
> It dosnt bother me what people think of us adopting from Romania we have done it for the right reasons


I don't care where people adopt their dogs from to be honest. But you said that UK rescues would have refused you simply for living in a flat and having a communal garden which simply isn't true for all UK rescues.


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

Our Rommie is a mixed breed we have actually no idea what breed she is so shes deffo not a status dog


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

LolaBoo said:


> As i said we were not intrested in adopting from this country we went down the route we wanted to which included home checks and long conversations with the charity, i have no desire to adopt from this country , people who do fair enough but we didnt!
> 
> It dosnt bother me what people think of us adopting from Romania we have done it for the right reasons


Then you cant say 'in the UK they wouldn't of accepted us even if we had tried, which we didnt' because you wanted a Rommie rescue - It had nothing to do with UK rescues not accepting you because like you said you didn't try lol


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> I don't care where people adopt their dogs from to be honest. But you said that UK rescues would have refused you simply for living in a flat and having a communal garden which simply isn't true for all UK rescues.


Most of them would yes, i know this through friends and relatives in same situations but as i say not a road we wanted to go down anyway , even if we lived in a 6 bedroom house with acres of land we would still have adopted a rommie


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Does it really matter what `everyone`s` views are? Those whose compassion crosses frontiers will rescue wherever there is need and those who think charity begins at home will look locally.
> Sadly, there is room - and need - for all who rescue.
> Perhaps those who make nasty comments about others could begin by questioning their own motives?


Ok have I been a work to long, what nasty comments? Did I miss them on the thread?


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

LolaBoo said:


> Most of them would yes, i know this through friends and relatives in same situations but as i say not a road we wanted to go down anyway , even if we lived in a 6 bedroom house with acres of land we would still have adopted a rommie


And that's your choice. But don't make it sound like you made that choice because UK rescues would have refused you when there are plenty who don't have the blanket rules about flats and gardens.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Right, I'm offski, I'm incommunicado until tomorrow, please everybody play nice  I'd be really disappointed if I logged on & found this thread has gone the way some have gone (as it's really interesting) & been deleted


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Personally I will most likely always rescue from the UK - because I feel more comfortable knowing I am able to research the rescue, meet the dog, spend some time understanding their needs, knowing that I am likely to be a good match for them.

I do worry about some of the 'rescues' it sounds like potentially a decent money maker - take dogs off the street and let someone pay you a couple of hundred pounds for it  I hope I am wrong

For the more genuine ones it sometimes appears that although they have good intentions, picking a random dog and meeting someone in a service station to hand it over isn't always going to work out for the best for all parties involved.

There are some well established rescues working abroad who have a great support network, who vet families and do the best they can to assess the dogs - I think people need to research the rescue organisations and choose one like this no matter if they are adopting from abroad or the UK.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

it's not something I've looked into greatly so these are my concerns

1, street dogs are a cultural issue, without dealing with the issue street dogs are a conveyor belt problem.

2, street dogs would find confinement hugely stressful and supporting them in this adjustment takes skill and patience not tools that may lead to the behaviours resurfacing at times of stress. The average dog owner ( unlike dog enthusiasts) won't have these skills so is sufficient work being down to prepare both the dogs and their homes

3, mail order brides, sorry I mean dogs. I can't choose wallpaper or paint with adequate accuracy from an image on the internet and I'm just going to slap that on the wall. I really don't think *I* could choose a dog that way , particularly to fit in well with a existing dog.

4 There are good and bad rescues ( and some fair to middling in between) in the UK and this is very likely true for overseas ones too. I do think particular care has to be taken regarding the legitimacy of rescues and the health related paper work especially in countries where rabies is present.

5, In Romania, I believe, the cause of the street dog population was quite specific, when the former dictator Nicolae Ceausescu forced much of the population to live in large complexes where dogs were forbidden, many dogs were abandoned. A policy of vaccinate, neuter and release would reduce the population.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> Does it really matter what `everyone`s` views are? Those whose compassion crosses frontiers will rescue wherever there is need and those who think charity begins at home will look locally.
> Sadly, there is room - and need - for all who rescue.
> Perhaps those who make nasty comments about others could begin by questioning their own motives?


I don't think anyone's making nasty comments this is an interesting debate with many facets. I think if you asked any of us individually we would all say any dog is better than no dog and that to rescue a suffering animal is commendable in any circumstances.

What we are discussing is in general terms and not meant to offend or identify anyone.

That in my opinion is the way issues are debated the world over.


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

Personally, (even though the Galgos do constantly tempt me) I would not adopt a dog from another country, especially as I only have sighthounds and the issues with ex racing greyhounds, ex working lurchers, etc in this country is bad enough without dogs from other countries taking homes that could have been filled with dogs from UK rescues.

In my opinion, we should not be bringing them over, not until we have a better control on the amount of dogs in our own country. Which is very sad that those dogs will suffer, but we are just not in a position to help right now. We need to do some radical things with dog ownership in the UK and then offer that help out to other countries.


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## spannels (Sep 9, 2011)

I would always prefer to rescue (as I have in the past) from a UK rescue (and UK or Irish dogs). And there would be no shortage of animals to choose from!

However, given the appalling conditions some dogs in other countries suffer, I think it would be better to sponsor a dog (or dogs) in that country, through a proper charity which would provide neutering, veterinary care, and education of the local population for the sponsored dog. But the dog itself should remain in its native country.

The danger of rabies coming into this country, especially if dogs are being brought in by dodgy "rescues" which may not have vaccinated properly, if at all, is horrendous. Not only for the sick dog itself, but potentially for all other animals it has or may have come into contact with, including feral cats, urban foxes etc. While I don't think well-cared for pet dogs would be "destroyed" _in the first instance_, strong restrictions such as leashing, muzzling and limitations on where they could be walked are very likely.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I don't think anyone with any sort of compassion could look at the work Melina does in Sarajevo and not be saddened, sometimes uplifted and in complete awe in how she deals daily with the task of rescuing (and she does rescue, not re home) and saving lives of the dogs she finds living in appalling circumstances and having suffered extreme hardship, even torture, without thinking she is an amazing human being. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Saving-Suffering-Strays-Sarajevo/108269329313209
She cannot save all the dogs, she does her best with the ones that she can and the others are at least fed. She needs funds and not funds for just re homing. She needs funds and people to help with neutering the ones left behind, the older ones who know nothing other than a street life since war became their enemy too. The best she can do is take food to as many dogs as she can and at least ensure they have a meal, the younger, more salvageable ones she takes home, home which is a tiny top floor flat, in the hope that someone, somewhere in this world will afford them the comfort and security of a home. Without a neutering programme for the rest, her mission is never likely to be accomplished. I have cried many times looking at her page and cried for her too, the life she leads must be so full of sorrow, so full of frustration that her fellow Sarajevo citizens cannot see the beauty in these animals and continue to mistreat them for whatever reason they find. I cannot help but think that she is fighting a losing battle and when she is gone the problem will continue and escalate because saving the odd pup/dog here and there is not addressing the root of the problem - but for now it helps the few.

These kind of rescues need people who can spend time trying to educate the younger generation, trying to make them see that cruelty is not acceptable. They need funds and people to set up organisations that will eventually offer protection and make animal cruelty a crime. They need vets to offer neutering programmes to ensure dogs that can't be re homed can be sent back to the streets and no longer breed, many dogs are left on the streets anyway but the big problem is that they are still breeding. Without stopping the breeding the problem will never cease and as all countries have homeless dogs/dogs needing to be re homed, it seems even Melina's efforts are somewhat pointless.

You can look anywhere in the world and see animals suffering, dogs cruelly tied up at market and ready to supply a family's table, donkeys worked til they drop dead, never being fed or watered during their working lives because it is cheaper to just barter another as opposed to pay out for feed, cats skinned alive for their coats. The list is endless but people don't go out and bring these unfortunate animals home, there are organisations who accept donations to set up educational facilities, speak with owners and try to get the message of cruelty across to Governments, with sanctuary's in those countries to help the animals found on deaths door.

I think shipping the dogs overseas, not addressing the problem from a higher Governmental point is a short term fix, if a fix at all - for the majority of dogs anyway. People like Melina need more than just homes for these dogs, they need backing from other's abroad in monetary terms and public exposure to highlight the problem animals abroad face.
Vic Fergusson is another person involved in dog rescue abroad but he doesn't transport dogs, he makes short documentary's to show what's needed in various countries, as does Eldad - another fantastic man who sets about daily to help and re home abandoned or cruelly treated dogs, within their own country. Shipping abroad is addressing the tip of the iceberg and not even beginning to solve the problem, like constantly bailing out a boat with a hole in the stern - it just goes on and on.

'Five Euro's Friday' is held every week on fb for Melina, that's all she asks for to help feed 'her' dogs but what she really needs are volunteers, people with veterinary knowledge, people who will try to help change the carnage she deals with daily, people with the backing of the RSPCA/IFAW or similar, to help form some kind of organisation to educate/prosecute/protect animals and not just ship the selected few to homes abroad.

I don't need to have 'rescued' a dog myself to have an opinion on such issue's, no more than I have to be a politician to have a political view - I only have to look at these kind of situations to see that re homing a few will do nothing to solve the much bigger problem that is mostly being ignored.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Malmum said:


> I don't think anyone with any sort of compassion could look at the work Melina does in Sarajevo and not be saddened, sometimes uplifted and in complete awe in how she deals daily with the task of rescuing (and she does rescue, not re home) and saving lives of the dogs she finds living in appalling circumstances and having suffered extreme hardship, even torture, without thinking she is an amazing human being. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Saving-Suffering-Strays-Sarajevo/108269329313209
> She cannot save all the dogs, she does her best with the ones that she can and the others are at least fed. She needs funds and not funds for just re homing. She needs funds and people to help with neutering the ones left behind, the older ones who know nothing other than a street life since war became their enemy too. The best she can do is take food to as many dogs as she can and at least ensure they have a meal, the younger, more salvageable ones she takes home, home which is a tiny top floor flat, in the hope that someone, somewhere in this world will afford them the comfort and security of a home. Without a neutering programme for the rest, her mission is never likely to be accomplished. I have cried many times looking at her page and cried for her too, the life she leads must be so full of sorrow, so full of frustration that her fellow Sarajevo citizens cannot see the beauty in these animals and continue to mistreat them for whatever reason they find. I cannot help but think that she is fighting a losing battle and when she is gone the problem will continue and escalate because saving the odd pup/dog here and there is not addressing the root of the problem - but for now it helps the few.
> 
> These kind of rescues need people who can spend time trying to educate the younger generation, trying to make them see that cruelty is not acceptable. They need funds and people to set up organisations that will eventually offer protection and make animal cruelty a crime. They need vets to offer neutering programmes to ensure dogs that can't be re homed can be sent back to the streets and no longer breed, many dogs are left on the streets anyway but the big problem is that they are still breeding. Without stopping the breeding the problem will never cease and as all countries have homeless dogs/dogs needing to be re homed, it seems even Melina's efforts are somewhat pointless.
> ...


Interesting post

But for the dogs who do find a home it means everything. It may not be a lot in the big scheme of things but for each dog it means the world


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> No offense to anyone here, but how do you think threads like this make some people who have rescued from abroad feel?


How do you think uk rescuers feel when the thousands of dogs here are pn death row in pounds because there are no rescue spaces because dogs from abroad have them ? The rescue I foster for one of the people have 24 dogs rescued from pounds in their home right now because they can't get spaces


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I'd rep you Malmum but I can't, done it too much! So thank you for bring this to my attention I had no idea about then.

I've been donating a percentage of my personal Pet Posters proceeds to the rescue we got Molly from, we've given them almost £400. I've been adding a few other lines and discussed sharing out the donation to someone else, with my husband. I thought in view of this thread, one that can educate would be good. I may have just had that answered. 

Thank you.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Bellaboo1 said:


> How do you think uk rescuers feel when the thousands of dogs here are pn death row in pounds because there are no rescue spaces because dogs from abroad have them ? The rescue I foster for one of the people have 24 dogs rescued from pounds in their home right now because they can't get spaces


Us "rescuers" feel happy that any dog finds a home.

People who rescue celebrate the homing and life of ANY dog.

Whilst dogs are dying every day. At the last count 68 staffies a DAY are being PTS in the uk. But few of our dogs suffer like our foreign dogs do

A true rescuer will not stand in judgement but be proud that people choose to rescue and not buy a puppy.

We should not descriminate in terms of post codes!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LolaBoo said:


> Nobody is saying that the dogs here are not important of course they are but im afraid they dont have to live in a society where there are 10s of 1000s of dogs roaming the street daily getting beaten run down and shot at , even being tossed onto the streets because they are black dogs,my rommie girl was found at 3 months old dumped at train depot, where her siblings had been getting hit from the trains i know of stories that would horrify you, in my eyes these rommie dogs need help just as much as the UK dogs so if it means there rescued and given forever homes in the UK so be it


See this is what I don't understand either, do you honestly think dogs here have any better a life??

*LINK CONTENT IS VERY UPSETTING!*

I'm going to post a link below, and I'd advise most people not to look at it it's the RSPCA Prosecutions Report, I think it runs to about page 14 I don't know, with about 10 links to stories per page, now these are just people they managed to prosecute and we know they aren't the most reactive of organisations are they.. I had to stop looking on page two because I felt sick, I wanted to throw up. I didn't even read the stories just the descriptions 
Prosecutions annual report | Animal cruelty stories | RSPCA

The cases of cruelty here are SHOCKING it disgusts me a nation of so called animals lovers can do this... UK dogs don't get it better than any other countries dogs... :crying:


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Meezey said:


> See this is what I don't understand either, do you honestly think dogs here have any better a life??
> 
> I'm going to post a link below, and I'd advise most people not to look at it it's the RSPCA Prosecutions Report, I think it runs to about page 14 I don't know, with about 10 links to stories per page, now these are just people they managed to prosecute and we know they aren't the most reactive of organisations are they.. I had to stop looking on page to because I felt sick, I wanted to throw up.
> Prosecutions annual report | Animal cruelty stories | RSPCA
> ...


I think u need to get real.

Cases in the UK are isolated. Yes it is sad and it happens far too much

But abroad it is a way of life! Dogs are vermin. That is NOT the case in the uk

If you genuinely think there is no comparison then get yourself on a plane or work with some of the foreign rescues (don't just read about them)

Very niave that you even think it is comparable ...


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## Dizzy Grace (May 2, 2012)

Very very good post Malmum!



goodvic2 said:


> Interesting post
> 
> But for the dogs who do find a home it means everything. It may not be a lot in the big scheme of things but for each dog it means the world


I do agree rescuing any dog is better than none at all, but I can't see how picking these pups online and having it delivered to your home does anything at all to improve the issues in countries like Romania, Bulgaria etc. All you are doing is funding the next dog, not giving to a charity that is actually working to solve the problem.

It truly tugs at the heart strings to see the suffering dogs can be subjected to in these countries and I really understand peoples desire to save these dogs, but I don't think saving 1 dog is the solution. As for shaming the other countries into dealing with their own problem.. I doubt most of them even care or notice what's happening at all. They certainly don't care about the dogs on the streets or in shelters so what makes you think they care about the ones we are taking off their hands?

Thousands of dogs in the UK are pts and although it may be more humane it is still far from ideal, people in our country need to buck up their ideas and face facts about the dogs they buy and breed.

I love dogs, ALL dogs, I would dearly love to see better education and standards of dog care the world over. The UK has a throw away society and even people who claim to love animals are seen having 'accidental' litters and discarding their beloved pets when they no longer serve their purpose.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

goodvic2 said:


> I think u need to get real.
> 
> Cases in the UK are isolated. Yes it is sad and it happens far too much
> 
> ...


I would rather work with damaged dogs in the UK thank you, that are enough needing help here.

Have you looked at the link? I'm naive?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Dizzy Grace said:


> Very very good post Malmum!
> 
> I do agree rescuing any dog is better than none at all, but I can't see how picking these pups online and having it delivered to your home does anything at all to improve the issues in countries like Romania, Bulgaria etc. All you are doing is funding the next dog, not giving to a charity that is actually working to solve the problem.
> 
> ...


I don't know anything about pups being chosen online. Maybe it is a farce. But there are a lot of good foreign rescues who should not be tarnished

I think somewhere it will embarrass the country. We may not hear of it but I bet it causes someone some discomfort


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Meezey said:


> I would rather work with damaged dogs in the UK thank you, that are enough needing help here.
> 
> Have you looked at the link? I'm naive?


I don't need to look at the link

We are talking about a CUlTURE of people abroad. People who are brought up to think of dogs as vermin

That is not the case in the UK whatever stats u put up.

I work with the RSPCA and deal with cruelty cases. I also work with many dogs, both within my paid job and my rescue work so I have a better understanding than most

As the owner of 2 greekies, a UK rescue and a UK foster dog I like to think I am pretty educated on the subject


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> Us "rescuers" feel happy that any dog finds a home.
> 
> People who rescue celebrate the homing and life of ANY dog.
> 
> ...


68 staffies a day I think you will find its many more than that and that's not counting the non bull breeds. I was tallking about rescues not individual people. So how does it make sense to add to the thousands already in this country looking for homes ?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

goodvic2 said:


> I don't need to look at the link
> 
> We are talking about a CUlTURE of people abroad. People who are brought up to think of dogs as vermin
> 
> ...


No one said you were not, but as always on Forums people assume the experience of others. I commend you for what you do, hats off to you, but it's doesn't make anyone else's opinion/thoughts/feels less valid than yours.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

"The 2012 annual Stray Dogs Survey released today by Dogs Trust, the UKs largest dog welfare charity, reveals a shocking 118,932* stray and abandoned dogs were picked up by Local Authorities across the UK over the last 12 months, equating to a staggering 325 stray dogs being found every day"

Of course people respect their dogs here...


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Meezey said:


> No one said you were not, but as always on Forums people assume the experience of others. I commend you for what you do, hats off to you, but it's doesn't make anyone else's opinion/thoughts/feels less valid than yours.


I don't want recognition - but thanks 

I was making the point to the poster who was making ridiculous suggestions that UK dogs get treated as bad as foreign dogs.

This is not the case at all and it is very naive.

(Best be careful in case I get a negative rep again LOL)


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Meezey said:


> "The 2012 annual Stray Dogs Survey released today by Dogs Trust, the UKs largest dog welfare charity, reveals a shocking 118,932* stray and abandoned dogs were picked up by Local Authorities across the UK over the last 12 months, equating to a staggering 325 stray dogs being found every day"
> 
> Of course people respect their dogs here...


Yes It is sad and disgraceful.

But at least we don't go around poisoning them or throwing boiling water over them or stringing them up, or running them over.

Our lucky strays are picked up by the dog warden and if lucky they are given a rescue place. If they are not then they are given the needle

But at no point do we make them suffer like they do abroad ..


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

goodvic2 said:


> I was making the point to the poster who was making ridiculous suggestions that UK dogs get treated as bad as foreign dogs.


Many UK dogs ARE treated just as badly as foreign dogs, just not in as many numbers. Just because it isn't as widespread, doesn't mean it isn't an issue and isn't an argument for spending UK resources on foreign dogs.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

I understand that people may disagree that we help foreign rescue dogs, like a lot of people disagree with immigration. 

But what people MUST recognise is that these dogs are not treated like our strays. 

By all means disagree with it but pls do not insult our dogs abroad by drawering any comparison with our counterparts.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

People DO throw boiling water over them they do string the up they do run them over in the UK?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Meezey said:


> People DO throw boiling water over them they do string the up they do run them over in the UK?


Yes they do

But a culture of people or a number of cruelty cases. Nobody is saying it doesn't happen


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

goodvic2 said:


> Yes they do
> 
> But a culture of people or a number of cruelty cases. Nobody is saying it doesn't happen
> "But what people MUST recognise is that these dogs are not treated like our strays.
> ...


No it's not, you are blithely ignoring the fact dogs suffer just as appalling cruelty in this country.

I would post links to some of those stories from the RSPC, but don't think that's fair on others reading the thread..


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Meezey said:


> No it's not, you are blithely ignoring the fact dogs suffer just as appalling cruelty in this country.
> 
> I would post links to some of those stories from the RSPC, but don't think that's fair on others reading the thread..


How am I ignoring it when I said I know it happens

How am I ignoring it when I said i dealt with a cruelty case last week

I have acknowledged it many of my posts.

Do you think it is on a par to foreign rescues?


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## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Every dog deserves a home  but I just feel we need to get our own house in order first : ( we are overrun with rescues in uk  and doesn't look like situation is getting any better  I also worry about rabies and other illnesses coming over


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

No, sorry. I don't agree with it. 

It is something that I have struggled with for a while - going from yes, save them all to no, we can't... and now I am set on no. 

I don't think rehoming the dogs is the issue, it is stopping them being bred at such an extent (something we are struggling to deal with in THIS country). My personal opinion, is that the focus should be working with the foreign governments to help them put things in place to stop all these street dogs... and work on educating the public. Setting up spay/neuter schemes... once that is in place, and showing signs of working, then I think we should be helping rehome those dogs. I do not agree with bringing over a load of dogs, just for more and more to be added to it... it will be an endless flow, which is why I think those rescues are going about it in the wrong way. 

I certainly don't think foreign dogs have less right to a good life than our dogs - but in the same breath, are our dogs any less important than the foreign dogs? Is it okay for dogs from this country dying in the thousands? 

I think it is a complex issue, but after a battle between my heart and my head, in this situation it is definitely head ruling... simply rehoming these dogs is pointless IMO.

And then, reading this thread (although I am only two pages in so far but I will reading the rest in a minute) has reinforced that opinion... What with the lax assessments of the dogs, rabies risk etc.


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

goodvic2 said:


> Yes It is sad and disgraceful.
> 
> But at least we don't go around poisoning them or throwing boiling water over them or stringing them up, or running them over.
> 
> ...


You are just proving yourself to be ignorant of the realities everywhere had you read meezy's posted link you would not have posted such a poor and ignorant statement.

Suffering is suffering just because it is hidden by a pseudo caring society doesn't make that suffering any less or equally horrific.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

goodvic2 said:


> I understand that people may disagree that we help foreign rescue dogs, like a lot of people disagree with immigration.
> 
> But what people MUST recognise is that these dogs are not treated like our strays.
> 
> By all means disagree with it but pls do not insult our dogs abroad by drawering any comparison with our counterparts.





goodvic2 said:


> Yes they do
> 
> But a culture of people or a number of cruelty cases. Nobody is saying it doesn't happen





goodvic2 said:


> How am I ignoring it when I said I know it happens
> 
> How am I ignoring it when I said i dealt with a cruelty case last week
> 
> ...


I wasn't aware there had to be a scale of suffering, yes you acknowledge it, but you still brush it under the table as not comparable to what dogs suffer there.. A horrific painful terrifying death at the hands of humans is no less cruel nor does the dog suffer any less dependent on the country the dog lives in, we have enough sicking acts of cruelty to animals on our own doorstep, and what makes it worse, is the veil of a nation of animal lovers..

I have no issue with helping rescues over there, I have no issue with helping petition their government for neutering/spaying, humane euthanisation, better dog controls.. Our pounds aren't all glamour and glitz, our dog world is not all fluffy and buttercups, it's cruel and heartless in a lot of cases, and WE need to sort out our own shite before we start bringing dogs in from else where...


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Bellaboo1 said:


> How do you think uk rescuers feel when the thousands of dogs here are pn death row in pounds because there are no rescue spaces because dogs from abroad have them ? The rescue I foster for one of the people have 24 dogs rescued from pounds in their home right now because they can't get spaces


Except it's not about bloody 'foreign dogs taking our rescue dogs places'. anymore than it's 'immigrants taking our jobs'. UK rescues (the majority) would not rehome to me, so sorry but thats the rescues problem, not mine. I'm a good dog owner, and they couldn't give a toss. I've had 2 home checks now to foster or adopt and have been turned down for both without any reason given. So sorry, but that doesn't wash with me. There are homes out there, but people aren't willing to give to them a lot of the time. And pretending the tiny minority of foreign dogs being rescued makes the blindest bit of difference to figures is laughable, just laughable.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Dizzy Grace said:


> Very very good post Malmum!
> 
> I do agree rescuing any dog is better than none at all,* but I can't see how picking these pups online and having it delivered to your home does anything at all to improve the issues in countries* like Romania, Bulgaria etc. All you are doing is funding the next dog, not giving to a charity that is actually working to solve the problem.


Can I ask what many rescues do to 'improve the issues' in this country? Out of interest. I know some offer free neuter or spaying. But aside from that a lot of rescue work is just cyclical, keep taking dogs in, keep rehoming dogs, rinse and repeat. People are harping on about 'our' situation, and what do many people do? Probably not much really...


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> Except it's not about bloody 'foreign dogs taking our rescue dogs places'. anymore than it's 'immigrants taking our jobs'. UK rescues (the majority) would not rehome to me, so sorry but thats the rescues problem, not mine. I'm a good dog owner, and they couldn't give a toss. I've had 2 home checks now to foster or adopt and have been turned down for both without any reason given. So sorry, but that doesn't wash with me. There are homes out there, but people aren't willing to give to them a lot of the time. And pretending the tiny minority of foreign dogs being rescued makes the blindest bit of difference to figures is laughable, just laughable.


They should give reasons and you should ask them to give a reason.. There are hundreds of rescue's out there to chose from.

You stated earlier that UK dogs didn't " appeal to you" ? Is that what puts you off looking at other rescue centers?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Meezey said:


> They should give reasons and you should ask them to give a reason.. There are hundreds of rescue's out there to chose from.
> 
> You stated earlier that UK dogs didn't " appeal to you" ? Is that what puts you off looking at other rescue centers?


They should, but many don't. I suppose many don't have the time, but I would love to know why it is I'm so unsuitable for a dog considering I already have one  If I was unsuitable for certain dogs that's fine, I think that too, but to be told 'no' with nothing else doesn't help me at all, and in the long run doesn't help the rescue either because I'd be a good home.

As for what doesn't appeal to me in general rescue centres many are full of staffies (esp in the East Mids) and I can't have a staff, my parents dog is aggressive to staffs and we spent a lot of time with him, also I categorically do not want a bull breed at this time because I already have one and don't want two in the same house personally. So yes, I look at breed specific places or abroad.


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

Thinking about this more, after reading the thread, makes me wonder what is right for the dogs... some dogs will probably adjust well, but I am imagine there are a lot who struggle... I'm not saying it is right to let dogs live wild/feral, but take a tiger for example... Would a tiger (being a wild animal) prefer to be safe but caged, or run the risk to live a free life? I have no doubt they would chose to be free... and I am sure it is the same for some feral dogs, whose life has only been knowing freedom... It is a HUGE change for a dog, especially one who was born on the streets, to then live life as a pet... in a house, with people around all the time, walking on a lead etc as well as getting shipped around the world... To those dogs who adjust, great! But the stress for those who don't must be horrible...

I'm not sure how I feel about that aspect of it - just thinking 'out loud' 



goodvic2 said:


> I think u need to get real.


How rude!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Mickey Rourke pledging $250,000 to help Romanian dogs



Meezey said:


> No it's not, you are blithely ignoring the fact dogs suffer just as appalling cruelty in this country.


Yep I can imagine someone like this coming into the UK and feeling the need to help in this way.

Notice people are focusing on "feral dogs" or "puppies". This is only a segment of the foreign rescue dogs, many other dogs may be brought over whose owners can no longer cater for their needs.


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## Donut76 (May 15, 2013)

Bellaboo1 said:


> How do you think uk rescuers feel when the thousands of dogs here are pn death row in pounds because there are no rescue spaces because dogs from abroad have them ? The rescue I foster for one of the people have 24 dogs rescued from pounds in their home right now because they can't get spaces


Well I'm happy to say my Rommi rescue isn't taking the space of a UK rescue because I wasn't even looking to get a dog so wouldn't have even looked at the UK centres
I also know (in the main) I wouldn't be accepted by UK rescue (tho I admit if I looked I MAY have found a couple but lime I say I wasn't on the market so to speak so didn't)

2 children under 10
Hubby works full time
I work part/full time
We are inexperienced

Angel was in the UK for about 4 weeks before she came to us she didn't come over JUST for us
We knew she had separation issues (yes she is worse than we thought but seeing as her foster had 3 other dogs & worked from home it would have been hard to assess for my situation)

I fell in love with her photo & that was that she could have been coming from the moon for all I cared

I DIDN'T want a bull breed
I DIDN'T want a rotti or a dobe 
Not saying anything about them breeds I just couldn't have them & Our rescues seen full of them

Every pet I have had (GALS love birds hamsters gerbils cats dogs) have all been unwanted pets I have taken on .. our rescued Angel is the first one I've given any thought to the others have all been impulsive

If I was looking to adopt a child then I wouldnt "stick to my own" I would rescue (adopt) from where I saw fit same reasoning


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I think at the end of the day if foreign rescues don't do anything to try to improve the situation of their street dogs, ie; neuter at the very least, then the UK *will *be flooded and these foreign dogs *will* be 'coming over here taking our rescue places' because they *will* keep on coming - year in year out. At least with home rescues the dogs are neutered, vaccs and have some kind of assessment, even if not in a home environment. You can't blame rescue centres here for doing nothing to improve the situation, I mean they can hardly pre empt situations, go into 'suspects' homes and tell them to neuter before they breed dogs, so as our rescues don't have the fall out that they have.

I think the government needs to look into the rescue dogs from abroad situation, need to have some kind of legal input and not just let any Tom, Dick or Harry decide who comes over and when. From what I see on facebook anyone can go and collect a dog from a dock then take it straight into their home, or pass it to someone else. Surely for the dogs safety too there should be some guideline to adhere to - seems anyone can have one regardless of who they are!

What is so annoying with facebook rescue folk is the way they tend to drum themselves up about the whole thing and I often wonder if the dogs are their main consideration. A fb 'freind' collected a lovely boy from Bosnia but has done nothing but go on about 'this is why I do what I do' like he's some sort of martyr. Yes his boy is gorgeous and he's lucky that he settled in so well, at just six months old perhaps that's why but I think taking a street dog out of it's environment, putting it in transit and then to a home life which it has never been used to is risky, if not cruel. In some cases the dogs are so disturbed by it all that it seems cruel to have ever done that in the first place, some have escaped and roam free here now because they can't be caught, at least not for a good while and others have had such bad behavioural issues that it's obvious they should never have been transported in the first place.

I can't understand why if I wanted to import a white Mal pup from a friend in Serbia it would cost me in excess £1,000 but if I wanted to take a street dog from the same area I can get someone to pick one up for me at a small donation cost. I don't see where the sense is in that at all!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I think at the end of the day if foreign rescues don't do anything to try to improve the situation of their street dogs, ie; neuter at the very least, then the UK *will *be flooded and these foreign dogs *will* be 'coming over here taking our rescue places' because they *will* keep on coming - year in year out.


So you want to dictate policy when the UK is so well known to be open to ideas from abroad  I do agree with the principle though, just the practicality and many places I believe are trying with limited resources.



> You can't blame rescue centres here for doing nothing to improve the situation


Being more open would be a start. Advertising the horror of how many dogs are put down would be another. Social change needs to start somewhere and information is the key. As it stands rescues and the murder of dogs (use the word deliberately) is far too often glossed over.



> I think the government needs to look into the rescue dogs from abroad situation, need to have some kind of legal input and not just let any Tom, Dick or Harry decide who comes over and when.


What, like breeding dogs where anyone can have a go. To me it's the same thing of taking responsibility for one or more lives.



> I can't understand why if I wanted to import a white Mal pup from a friend in Serbia it would cost me in excess £1,000 but if I wanted to take a street dog from the same area I can get someone to pick one up for me at a small donation cost. I don't see where the sense is in that at all!


So what is different in terms of the legal differences, movement regulations etc? As far as I know there aren't any.

-----------------​Couple of interesting articles from Greece..
Greece's stray dogs - Loved and cared for by many | Life With Dogs
Stray dogs are a problem in Athens

With the economic crisis however more dogs are being abandoned, so rather than being long term "street dogs", these dogs may have had loving owners in the recent past. I've read of at least one group, Animal Action which spends most of its money neutering and spaying strays. They have a mobile team of veterinarians that crisscross the country to "fix" strays and neighborhood pets but financial backing is drying up. Poisoning seems to often be the "fix" of choice instead unfortunately.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

It's a very sad situation, there are plenty of children worldwide who could also do with a home but because this world isn't perfect, we can't help everyone. 

Countries shying from their own resposibilities though are learning nothing while others continue to bail them out. It's kinda similar to supporting byb's in just taking on their left offs and them not having any responsibility at all. In Sarajevo its kind of understandable, the people have been war torn, where they live is nothing more than ruins and I would imagine just finding the next days food is a struggle. Dogs to them must be no more than scavangers and pests - poor things. Places like Greece surprise me though, I would have thought them more capable of consideration where animals are concerned. 

As for our own government, they have been hugely criticised and are still being so, for the change in importation laws, making it easier for animals to travel to the UK. Customs officials are also not happy with the change and fear rabies will at some point enter our island, something we have always had the pleasure of escaping. So dogs being bred willy nilly over here (although still very wrong) is not the issue, its more an issue of what dogs from abroad can bring in. 
Even endangered species are entering our ports because of this easier access, birds and reptiles have been seized but its estimated thousands more are slipping through the net according to customs officials and conservation groups on a radio 4 programme recently. Indigenous animals are under threat because stupid people take on creatures they then don't want and release them into the wild &#65533;&#65533; reptiles will usually die off during wintert but things like terrapins and snapping turtles are acclimatising and killing off our frogs, toads, newts etc. some of which, like the crested newt, are endangered. 

There should definitely be stricter control on the importation of all animals but unfortunately with the change in the border laws it has become a lottery as to whether they are caught entering or not. Lowering staffing levels has also had an impact.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Phoolf said:


> Except it's not about bloody 'foreign dogs taking our rescue dogs places'. anymore than it's 'immigrants taking our jobs'. UK rescues (the majority) would not rehome to me, so sorry but thats the rescues problem, not mine. I'm a good dog owner, and they couldn't give a toss. I've had 2 home checks now to foster or adopt and have been turned down for both without any reason given. So sorry, but that doesn't wash with me. There are homes out there, but people aren't willing to give to them a lot of the time. And pretending the tiny minority of foreign dogs being rescued makes the blindest bit of difference to figures is laughable, just laughable.


I'm. Not talking about your personal circumstances that's your perogative if you choose to rescue from abroad and to sat iys a minority that come here well that's laughable as well


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## lulubel (Apr 28, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> I am also concerned about the fact that the UK is currently rabies free - But for how long?


I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned because I haven't had time to read the whole thread yet, but other parts of the EU have much stricter rabies vaccination requirements than the UK.

In this part of Spain, it's a legal requirement to have your dogs vaccinated every year. In the UK, it isn't a legal requirement at all unless you are travelling abroad with your dog, and then the vaccine is about once every 3 years, I think.

If rabies gets into the UK, it won't be because someone has legally imported a vaccinated dog. It will be because someone has picked up a stray from the streets of Morocco (or similar) and smuggled it in, which is the same risk that has always been there.

As far as the topic of this thread is concerned, I'm very shocked to find people on this forum who I believed to be animal lovers saying a dog shouldn't have a chance of a happy life simply because it's "foreign".


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

lulubel said:


> I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned because I haven't had time to read the whole thread yet, but other parts of the EU have much stricter rabies vaccination requirements than the UK.
> 
> In this part of Spain, it's a legal requirement to have your dogs vaccinated every year. In the UK, it isn't a legal requirement at all unless you are travelling abroad with your dog, and then the vaccine is about once every 3 years, I think.
> 
> ...


Oh I know--We have two working dogs in Poland and they have to have rabies jabs each year.

My concern in the 'rescues' cutting corners- Theres more and more organisations cropping up who bring these dogs over- Some not even registered charities.

If there cutting corners in other ways how do we know they are rabies protected? Not just covered by a stamp from a friend who is a vet because the dog appears healthy?

Im sure theres ways of tricking the system. Look at Mese the dog she took on had chronic diahrea from the day she got it.

I dont have a problem with the dogs being 'foreign' (Im married to a foreigner!) but think in some circumstances IF things are as bad as people say they are then use the money to euthanase 30 dogs in a ethical mannor rather before they are butchered to death or spend months in a hellish shelter rather than use it to save just one dog by shipping it 1500 miles to a family who chose it by a photo.

Just my opinion - That sometimes things cant be helped in a rose way. Not every dog can be saved. For me being an animal lover is using funds most efficiently to 'help' as many dogs as possible which will also help reduce numbers in the long run.

The whole Rabies situ we will see with time I guess. But vaccinated or not in concerns me.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

It's highly unlikely rabies will enter the country. 

The rules are still strict enough unless your dog is part of a travel scheme in which it must of been vaxed and vetted before hand anyway. If you bring a dog here with vaccinations which is not from an eu country they are still required to spend time quarantined. I do believe?

Adopting from abroad is not for me although I'd never judge someone who chooses to do so. As long as all dog are neutered and spayed before hand and is temperamentally sound, for some dogs it would probably be kinder to just put them to sleep as their living conditions could be so different that it could cause them more stress or they have been through so much they will always be anxious and stressed. 

Some dogs here in the uk have been starved, beaten and abandoned... It doesn't just happen in other countries. My cousins rescued two stray dogs of Spain, they where in their element out and about patrolling the streets, playing and scavenging at their own free will. They don't all have it bad. 

I really don't agree with shipping dogs over to prospective owners without a meeting and strict rules in place to prevent these dogs ending up in rescues by giving free advice and support regarding behaviour, diet, exercise etc. I think it should be regulated in some way to make sure every rescue importing rescue dogs is doing so effectively without risk. 

I've no issue with imported dogs, I know a breeder who imported their stud from over seas and is a great dog. Rescuing from abroad is just not for me though.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Milliepoochie said:


> I dont have a problem with the dogs being 'foreign' (Im married to a foreigner!) but think in some circumstances IF things are as bad as people say they are then use the money to euthanase 30 dogs in a ethical mannor rather before they are butchered to death or spend months in a hellish shelter rather than use it to save just one dog by shipping it 1500 miles to a family who chose it by a photo.


I totally agree with this. These countries will always have a problem with stray and roaming dogs until everyone can be educated, the population under control and spay & neutering becomes a regular occurrence.

I'd happily give to foreign charities working on the above then those who import dogs who aren't fit for it.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Phoolf said:


> Can I ask what many rescues do to 'improve the issues' in this country? Out of interest. I know some offer free neuter or spaying. But aside from that a lot of rescue work is just cyclical, keep taking dogs in, keep rehoming dogs, rinse and repeat. People are harping on about 'our' situation, and what do many people do? Probably not much really...


As I said I personally don't see an issue rescuing from anywhere as long as the rescue (UK or Foriegn) is reputable, a registered charity, offers support, checks the suitability of the dog and family as best as they can.
I also don't think a direct comparison can be made between UK and some of the counties, the cultural attitude to dogs etc is very different and in some ways it's almost like stepping back 100 years or so.
Local Governments need to work with welfare organisations to re-educate people campaign for dogs not to be allowed to roam free and for dogs to be neutered for the existing feral dogs spay/ neuter and release, rehome or when necessary euthanise
Many rescues such as RSPCA, Blue Cross and Dogs Trust any many smaller local rescues have educational services and run awareness campaigns, offer reduced or free spay and neuter etc
Our Government does have laws in place and bodies such as DEFRA I know they are often ineffectual but they are at least there and are even sometimes applied.
We have many many issues in this country but I have never seen feral dogs in the south of England - although there is plenty of cruelty around we do have a different culture to many countries regarding dogs, the majority of us know the basic requirements (whether we decide to provide them is a different matter)

I can fully understand someone wanting to help these dogs, even helping one may not make a real difference but I'm sure it makes a real difference to that one.

My concern is knowing someone who works in quarentine kennels that they are getting increasing numbers of private sale and so called rescue puppies and dogs with falsified papers.

And what do I do - I volunteer at the Blue Cross giving educational talks to schools and any group that will have me to hopefully help reduce the situation we are currently in in the UK


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## DogLove3 (Mar 1, 2012)

We have two beautiful rescue dogs from overseas, they are the most wonderful and unique dogs we have ever come across.
Stray dogs in poorer countries do need all the help they can get, as the economies are so bad, the dogs suffer tremendously and that is where help from developed countries such as the UK is needed. 
Some people abroad have no respect for stray dogs and do not see them as family members like us people in the UK do.
And due to the amount of stray dogs abroad, cases of animal cruelty are high, the dogs go through so much every day of their life, so the chance for them to get a loving home in a more developed country, when they are cherished is great.
Anyone that has ever spent time interacting with stray dogs abroad or has observed their everyday life will know what I am talking about.
I think it is important to help any dog in need. 
Rescue shouldn't stop at borders.


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

DogLove3 said:


> We have two beautiful rescue dogs from overseas, they are the most wonderful and unique dogs we have every come across.
> Stray dogs in poorer countries do need all the help they can get, as the economies are so bad, the dogs suffer tremendously and that is where help from developed countries such as the UK is needed.
> Some people abroad have no respect for stray dogs and do not see them as family members like us people in the UK do.
> And due to the amount of stray dogs abroad, cases of animal cruelty are high, the dogs go through so much every day of their life, so the chance for them to get a loving home in a more developed country, when they are cherished is great.
> ...


I do agree with you to an extent but we are talking about completely different cultures here. We will never force another country to start viewing dogs differently and so it's likely there will always be an issue with stray, feral and ill treated animals.

I don't think the solution is to ship lots of dogs out of the country as its to little to late and is not going to change the attitude of the countries people. If we keep removing excess animals then why should they ever bother sorting the problem out them selves, if you know what I mean.

We don't know the impact it could have on this country either, it's already been establish dogs are sent over with false documents so where else have they cut corners? It seems some are doing it for the money and nothing else, I know some are registered charities but when it comes to different countries its really not hard to make it look as though your not profiting.

As I said, I think it should be regulated. I'm all for helping those less fortunate but there is ways and means and I don't think this is it.


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

I have just sat and read this whole thread, start to finish. The first point I'd like to make is one that i shouldn't have to be making to members of this forum. Not all British rescues are full of staffies. A quick browse of several rescue sites shows many breeds (although some, like staffies, are certainly more common.) for example on the website for Battersea at Brands Hatch, out of 14 available dogs, 6 are staffies/staffy crosses. There are ways and means for you to adopt almost any breed within the UK, if that is what you would like to do. 

I would also like to point out that there are many smaller "rescues" in the UK who do not home check or insist on the whole family, or even other dogs, meet each other before homing. (ETA: This is a bad thing, not an advert for people who would like to adopt a dog but won't pass a home check!)

I, personally, would not rehome a completely unknown and unassessed dog into my home. I do not think it's fair to put a feral (or close enough) dog into the back of a van and travel with it for hundreds of miles. I also think that the rescues should have more responsibility and ongoing involvement, helping to acclimatise the dogs to their new surroundings. If these people are the "experts" then surely they are best positioned to help the adoptive families.

I'm not saying we shouldn't help these dogs, and if people wish to adopt from overseas, then fine. What I am saying is that it needs to be organised BETTER! If they are not registered charities, then who is monitoring them? Who is ensuring that the vaccinations are genuine? Perhaps are rescues over here aren't monitored either, but they don't risk introducing a devastating disease. Also most will take back a dog who hasn't worked out, for whatever reason, whereas I can't see that most foreign rescues have the facilities to do this?

I, personally, would prefer to see a dog euthenased in a humane manner, than subjected to the stress of having his freedom removed,being transported in a van for many hours and then introduced into a completely alien environment, which he may never accept. 

I am truly happy for those members who have successfully taken on a foreign rescue. I'm sure those passionate supporters will completely disagree with me, but, like you, I am entitled to my opinion!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

lulubel said:


> As far as the topic of this thread is concerned, I'm very shocked to find people on this forum who I believed to be animal lovers saying a dog shouldn't have a chance of a happy life simply because it's "foreign".


No body is saying that, and people having concerns or not agreeing with it are no less of animals lovers than yourself, say it's because it "foreign" isn't even relevant to this thread!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Malmum said:


> It's a very sad situation, there are plenty of children worldwide who could also do with a home but because this world isn't perfect, we can't help everyone.


I agree.. but one dog is the same as another.. it's luck of the draw which one you pick. Why is one dog more deserving than another.. oh any "UK" dog has more right for life than a foreign one?



> Countries shying from their own resposibilities though are learning nothing while others continue to bail them out. It's kinda similar to supporting byb's in just taking on their left offs and them not having any responsibility at all.


Erm.. Uk responsibilities springs to mind regarding the learning nothing. The amount of dogs "exported" vs the amount of dogs around is a drop in the ocean and hardly "bailing" them out.



> Places like Greece surprise me though, I would have thought them more capable of consideration where animals are concerned.


Yet it's only since the 70's dogs have been considered "pets" in Greece, unlike the UK. The animal loving people of the UK have had pet dogs for centuries and yet the rescue situation is as bad. You get hate mail and death threats for a woman who knocks a cat into a bin and yet nothing for 11,000 or more dogs PTS each year due to not having a home.



> As for our own government, they have been hugely criticised and are still being so, for the change in importation laws, making it easier for animals to travel to the UK.


It is not the issue under discussion. The law is the same for importing a champion pedigree dog and a rescue dog. How strict this ruling is is another matter but the argument would only be applicable if rescues had special treatment which they don't. Or are pedigree dogs, for example, not capable of catching and bringing in diseases from abroad? What about those puppy farmers importing various dogs?

What is the difference between getting a puppy from a backyard breeder and getting a rescue dog from a abroad which doesn't do any checks? Compare the difference to getting a puppy from a reputable breeder and getting a rescue dog, even if foreign, from a rescue which temperament tests their dogs, checks potential homes and matches dogs to owners. I know our "foreign" rescue did although you do have to bear in mind, it wasn't in the UK.

Isn't it the responsibility of the potential owner to make sure they go through a responsible channel to get any dog?


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## Wilmer (Aug 31, 2012)

> It's highly unlikely rabies will enter the country.


I wish I shared your confidence. The conversation we had was with someone importing from one of the newer EU countries and clearly saw the PETS passport as red-tape to be dealt with, rather than a necessity to keep the UK free of diseases not yet (very) present. I only have limited experience of the scheme, but to my knowledge, an approved vet administers the vaccines/anti-parasite treatments, applies for the passport and (given a three week waiting period) off you go.

We don't even trust UK vets to do the right thing, but we're prepared to put a great deal of trust in a vet in a economically struggling country with a dubious human rights record and a very different culture towards animals. I think we are being very naive if we think that no short cuts will be taken.

Just to be clear, I have no problem in principle with adopting from overseas provided the rescue is behaving ethically. To me, ethically is;

Any profit from rehoming fees is put toward humane neuter/euthanasia of the local street-dogs/pound dogs.

The dogs to be rehomed are matched to suitable, home-checked and experienced people/families who are fully prepared and supported for taking on a feral dog or a puppy from a feral background.

Any rehoming failures are taken care of by the rescue's UK supporters and not added to the burden on unrelated domestic organisations.

The entry of the dogs into the UK is fully legal and respectful of vaccination rules (to be fair, I don't believe the rescues would knowingly break these rules, but if they're paying the cheapest quote to transport their dogs, who knows what is happening).


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## sezeelson (Jul 5, 2011)

Wilmer said:


> I wish I shared your confidence. The conversation we had was with someone importing from one of the newer EU countries and clearly saw the PETS passport as red-tape to be dealt with, rather than a necessity to keep the UK free of diseases not yet (very) present. I only have limited experience of the scheme, but to my knowledge, an approved vet administers the vaccines/anti-parasite treatments, applies for the passport and (given a three week waiting period) off you go.


Ah, I thought the travel scheme was for pets residing in the uk only, leaving and coming back to the country. I didn't realise it could be applied for dogs residing in eu countries coming into the uk.

I dread to think what would happen should diseases become widespread in the uk. I really don't agree with vaccinations eithr and will not vaccinate unless absolutely undoubtably necessary.


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

Surely instead of 'rescuing' street dogs , shoving them into a crate and then eventually shipping them over to the UK would it not be much more humane and effective use of money to support charities who are actively working with overseas governments on Spay/Neuter/release programmes ? 

My OH has worked for many years in Eastern Europe and the Middle East doing just this for WSPA...he tells me just how disturbed and distressed so many of these street dogs are when they are captured and confined to kennels indefinitely...if eventually they find a home in the uk they are expected to adapt from life running with a free pack to a UK urban household ...some do adapt, but many don't and the future for them is ...what ?.

...and don't forget for every street dog 'rescued' like this there will be another 6 born leading to overpopulation and often inhumane culling programmes .. government sponsored Spay, Neuter and release programmes are the single most effective method of stray dog control and that's what the funds currently used to transport dogs over to the Uk should be used for instead !


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

The only way I like it is either dogs soldiers have found & want to adopt or people on holiday who also want to adopt the dog.

I don't like the idea of cataloging dogs and people can pick a dog with a pretty picture and a sad story. I understand their lives are hard but many dogs in the Uk and USA have hard lives that need help. 

These dogs are often born and have been living wild, I much prefer the trap, spay/nueter and release option than forced into a home in a situation neither they or their parents are used to. 

I'll pass on adopting a dog from abroad.


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## DogLove3 (Mar 1, 2012)

TNR (trap, neuter and return) is already being carried out in various towns within Eastern European countries. I know of a few towns where they successfully carry out the operations and then let the dogs free back to the place on the street that they picked them up from. This is working well for them.

But I am sure some of you can appreciate the way of life on the street is not for all dogs, some dogs depending on their size or colour are victimised, so for these types of dogs it is beneficial if they can be rehomed in another country or otherwise at best they face the constant threat of bullying from people.
So for the dogs being transported by air or road it is a little price to pay to get a happy and long life.

All of the stray dogs that I have ever come across (and it is loads) have been friendly and most of them adoptable (only the nervous ones who have been mistreated on the street need longer for you to build their trust up)
These stray dogs are not wild at all, they crave human interaction, love cuddles and wait for humans to put food and water down on the ground for them.
They are the same as domestic dogs but have just had more of lifes experiences, as most stray dogs were owned before and were got rid of when they grew too big, got too expensive or passed the cute puppy stage.
We have seen dogs being dropped off and left on the street, they wait eagerly for their human owner to come back and are so used to human integration.
Our 2 dogs were rescued from abroad, they settled into a family home life straight from the street, they never mistreated or damaged our belongings and they never went to the toilet in the house, they are respectful and loving dogs and we didn't teach them this, they already knew it.

The rules in European countries are a lot more strict than the UK. In the ones we have experienced dogs have to be vaccinated every 12 months and they gain a metal tag with a unique number on every year to show that the dog is uptodate with his vaccines and dogs have to be registered with the local council. Stray dogs get similar but an eartag, when they are neutered or spayed they are also given a multiple vaccination and in some towns Frontline and worming is given.

For dogs living abroad and also for dogs that travel under the pet passport scheme, when the vaccines are given the vet removes the sticker from the vaccine bottle and sticks it into the passport, this gives the batch number of the vaccine and there is only 1 sticker per ampule, so it would be hard to falsify that they have had the vaccines.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

DogLove3 said:


> TNR (trap, neuter and return) is already being carried out in various towns within Eastern European countries. I know of a few towns where they successfully carry out the operations and then let the dogs free back to the place on the street that they picked them up from. This is working well for them.
> 
> But I am sure some of you can appreciate the way of life on the street is not for all dogs, some dogs depending on their size or colour are victimised, so for these types of dogs it is beneficial if they can be rehomed in another country or otherwise at best they face the constant threat of bullying from people.
> So for the dogs being transported by air or road it is a little price to pay to get a happy and long life.
> ...


I loved most of your post, but I think that there are obvious ways to falsify vaccines, just as there are obvious ways that people traffick people into this country, create false passports and documents and all sorts in order to fool people. With any system there are ways to get around it.


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## LouLatch (Jul 2, 2012)

Why do some people think Uk rescues are only full of bull breeds? Or dobies/rotties?

There are other breeds that are in rescues in the UK. 

Don't shoot me am only curious?


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

DogLove3 said:


> TNR (trap, neuter and return) is already being carried out in various towns within Eastern European countries. I know of a few towns where they successfully carry out the operations and then let the dogs free back to the place on the street that they picked them up from. This is working well for them.
> 
> But I am sure some of you can appreciate the way of life on the street is not for all dogs, some dogs depending on their size or colour are victimised, so for these types of dogs it is beneficial if they can be rehomed in another country or otherwise at best they face the constant threat of bullying from people.
> *So for the dogs being transported by air or road it is a little price to pay to get a happy and long life.*
> ...


My real question is are they getting a long and happy life? It seems that some do, which is fantastic, but others are placed with the wrong people in the wrong home, so they either stay in the wrong home and certainly don't have a happy life, or they go back to the rescue (hopefully) and maybe this time they go to a home with the knowledge and experience to deal with them. For a dog already stressed and dealing with so much upheaval, changing homes every 5 minutes is really not going to help.

IF the home checks were more stringent, IF the dogs were assessed properly, IF there was a way to be absolutely sure they received necessary vaccinations, IF they weren't being pulled straight from the street to order, IF there wasn't a risk of them ending up in our already stretched rescue centres, MAYBE people would have less of a problem with it. But that's a few too many IFs for my liking.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Pet Services Kent said:


> IF the home checks were more stringent, IF the dogs were assessed properly, IF there was a way to be absolutely sure they received necessary vaccinations, IF they weren't being pulled straight from the street to order, IF there wasn't a risk of them ending up in our already stretched rescue centres, MAYBE people would have less of a problem with it. But that's a few too many IFs for my liking.


If UK rescues were always consistent.. If dogs in UK rescues were assessed properly.. If there were less rules and regulations or for some, if there were more rules and regulations  Forget the stretched rescue centers as UK centers already are. We can all provide ifs and most are applicable no matter which country you are talking about. The UK isn't perfect. In addition, not all rescues from abroad are street dogs. Just had a look at a rescue site "abroad". First dog I came across abandoned by his owner who can no longer look after himself, yet alone a dog. Possible problems with hind legs. So hardly simply glossing things over. From the same site, another dog listed as not good with other dogs, not good with cats, good with adults, not kids. Sounds like just as much temperament testing as I've seen in the UK. In fact most sites I have seen in the past aren't afraid of saying, no cats, not good with other dogs, needs a male or female specific owner etc.


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## Pet Services Kent (Dec 3, 2010)

Goblin said:


> If UK rescues were always consistent.. If dogs in UK rescues were assessed properly.. If there were less rules and regulations or for some, if there were more rules and regulations  Forget the stretched rescue centers as UK centers already are. We can all provide ifs and most are applicable no matter which country you are talking about. The UK isn't perfect. In addition, not all rescues from abroad are street dogs. Just had a look at a rescue site "abroad". First dog I came across abandoned by his owner who can no longer look after himself, yet alone a dog. Possible problems with hind legs. So hardly simply glossing things over. From the same site, another dog listed as not good with other dogs, not good with cats, good with adults, not kids. Sounds like just as much temperament testing as I've seen in the UK. In fact most sites I have seen in the past aren't afraid of saying, no cats, not good with other dogs, needs a male or female specific owner etc.


There obviously are some bad rescues here in the UK, nobody can deny that, but my thoughts go more to the welfare of the dogs than defending rescue organisations who may or may not deserve it. The main argument for people bringing these dogs over seems to be the terrible life they lead on the streets, followed by the terrible life they have in a shelter. To me the situation (in most cases) can not possibly then be helped by a long stressful road trip, followed by being placed in a home for the first time with owners who are unprepared for what they've taken on. Nobody is saying it never works out, but how can it be expected to work out at all when both the dogs and the owners are being set up to fail?


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

DogLove3 said:


> For dogs living abroad and also for dogs that travel under the pet passport scheme, when the vaccines are given the vet removes the sticker from the vaccine bottle and sticks it into the passport, this gives the batch number of the vaccine and there is only 1 sticker per ampule, so it would be hard to falsify that they have had the vaccines.


Really sorry you are wrong the BBC programme Don't get done get Dom covered this recently.

He followed quarantine officers visiting people with their newly obtained pups from abroad. It was sad seeing the pups confiscated when their passports were found to be falsified and their owners facing signing them over or large quarantine bills. Admittedly none of the dogs were from rescues but with the development of so many Facebook unregistered rescues appear its certainly a possibility.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Picklelily said:


> Admittedly none of the dogs were from rescues ... its certainly a possibility.


So.. totally different situation.

Why do puppy farms exist? Could it be they make money hence the misleading "registration" documents. The money aspect alone makes it worth while, as it does to bring loads of puppies into the country. How many rescues per trip would it need to make the sort of money to justify the expense and danger of faking export documentation. It's a totally different scenario. What if.. not fact.

Even though Daily Mail, anyone remember http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-dog-farm-stuffed-car-boot-bound-Britain.html


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## Picklelily (Jan 2, 2013)

Goblin said:


> So.. totally different situation.
> 
> Why do puppy farms exist? Could it be they make money hence the misleading "registration" documents. The money aspect alone makes it worth while, as it does to bring loads of puppies into the country. How many rescues per trip would it need to make the sort of money to justify the expense and danger of faking export documentation. It's a totally different scenario. What if.. not fact.
> 
> Even though Daily Mail, anyone remember They've had a ruff time! Adorable puppies bred on illegal dog farm found stuffed into car boot bound for Britain | Mail Online


What I'm saying is its perfectly feasible for a rescue dog to have falsified papers/passport its already happening. Just as its possible to have unregulated rescues bringing dogs into any country.

The story in the Daily Mail was certainly true it was on many news networks.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Dare I liken this to the issues in Africa? How long have we been aware of the famine/starving children/drought that Liveaid really highlighted for us? Have the issues been resolved? (You can lay the blame squarely on the countries that decided to increase their empire and destroyed the tribal culture or lay the blame on the need for oil, whatever choice you prefer) 

It strikes me as pouring money into an endlessly deep hole to be offering money there and the same for rescuing foreign dogs and even UK rescue dogs. Nothing changes, the situations are worsening, in face, with increasing numbers of dogs dying. 

The Govts in Romania or wherever couldn't give a stuff and the culture of how dogs are treated over there will never change nor can we make it change. It's all very well going on about education, but it won't happen over there.

Justify it whichever way you like, every justification is valid, every dog is worthwhile, of course they are, but it's infinite, we won't resolve the situation there or here by rescuing Romanian or Greek or whatever dogs because idiots will still breed indiscriminately and street dogs will still produce millions of puppies a year. People breeding can't be monitored and fining them for overbreeding a poor staffie bitch purely for the cash will never stop til the UK govt bans puppy farming. Ultimately, the majority of people with pet dogs (who haven't yet encountered the brilliance of somewhere like this forum  Even with the support of the forum, people STILL go and get a pup from god knows who, I'm guilty of this too) want a puppy or dog NOW and what they want, they'll get, here or abroad. 

So rescue away, every dog counts, but those doing good by rescuing won't change anything in the grand scheme of things except to save the individual dog because it's endless, the situation will not be resolved until everyone is educated about puppy farming in the UK or BYBs and even then, you've got people looking abroad or trying to say they had an oops litter or their bitch 'needs' to have just one litter before spaying. Circular, endless, utterly depressing. All we can do is look after ours the best we can and neuter/spay, no excuses. 

Depressed myself now, off to walk my boys.


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## x clo x (Feb 24, 2012)

i dont agree with it, we have so many dogs here that need rescuing. i understand that cases abroad are so much crueler and animals arent looked after as well, and every dog deserves a chance. i just think we should start closer to home. 

i have no problem with people who choose to rescue from abroad though, each to their own.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

LolaBoo said:


> Nobody is saying that the dogs here are not important of course they are but im afraid they dont have to live in a society where there are 10s of 1000s of dogs roaming the street daily getting beaten run down and shot at , even being tossed onto the streets because they are black dogs,my rommie girl was found at 3 months old dumped at train depot, where her siblings had been getting hit from the trains i know of stories that would horrify you, in my eyes these rommie dogs need help just as much as the UK dogs so if it means there rescued and given forever homes in the UK so be it


The situation for dancing bears in Siberia and fighting bulls in Spain is similarly horrific. However the solution to these very serious and cruel problems is not for me to ship the poor beasts over and put one in my living room...

That said I am NOT against importing rescue dogs. The situation in this country is such that our rescue crisis is weighted towards bull and 'status' breeds when the majority of folk want to adopt fluffy things and gun dogs. Sadly, filling kennels with staffies means turnover of dogs grinds to a halt which is why many rescues choose to cherry pick. If easily rehomeable dogs are available abroad and the demand for them is here, it makes perfect sense to bring them over, a dog is a dog no matter where it is in the world. It's why the dogs trust imports lots of dogs from Eire, where there are more homeable types, rather than filling all their places with pound dogs from the UK.

I'm not saying that I think the fact that certain breed types are hard to rehome is ok, I actually think it's very, very sad. I know someone who took a pair of mastiff types direct from the pound the day before they were pts and you couldn't meet two more gentle (and lazy!) dogs - it's just a shame they didn't come out of the womb Labrador shaped. I've also seen it mentioned either on this thread or another that somebody went for a Romanian dog because they 'couldn't deal with' a staffie. With the situation as it is you could find a staffie of any age, temperament or type that you desire with very little effort. If the actual truth is that certain breeds are not your thing aesthetically (which is fine) then, though maybe proportionally less common, there's plenty of other breed types in UK rescue Dogs for Adoption & Rescue - DogsBlog.com

As I've said I've no issue with importing rescues per se. What I do have a real issues with is with importing dogs whose behaviour makes them unsuitable for life in a British home and with placing unassessed dogs in unassessed homes that cannot deal with them. Unfortunately many of the Romanian rescues seem to be guilty of one or both of those things and that is unacceptably stressful for the dog and potentially dangerous for the people and animals in the homes these dogs are going into. Street dog puppies seem to be a popular choice because they supposedly come without baggage but that ignores the influence of their genetics and early socialisation on their adult temperament.

No doubt some homes are equipped to deal with and enjoy the challenge of feral or semi feral dogs and I have no problem with such homes importing them. I'm certain though that these homes are very scarce and your average owner needs to think long and hard about why they want a street dog and seriously look at whether they have the ability to deal with one.


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

lennythecloud said:


> The situation for dancing bears in Siberia and fighting bulls in Spain is similarly horrific. However the solution to these very serious and cruel problems is not for me to ship the poor beasts over and put one in my living room...
> 
> That said I am NOT against importing rescue dogs. The situation in this country is such that our rescue crisis is weighted towards bull and 'status' breeds when the majority of folk want to adopt fluffy things and gun dogs. Sadly, filling kennels with staffies means turnover of dogs grinds to a halt which is why many rescues choose to cherry pick. If easily rehomeable dogs are available abroad and the demand for them is here, it makes perfect sense to bring them over, a dog is a dog no matter where it is in the world. It's why the dogs trust imports lots of dogs from Eire, where there are more homeable types, rather than filling all their places with pound dogs from the UK.
> 
> ...


I know none of them come without baggage, the younger ones do as well just maybe not as extreme, trust is a big issue with some, we have only had Apple a day so i cant say if any issues will arise but if they do we will deal with them, she wont be going back shes our dog and we will do what is best for her within our home


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## DogLove3 (Mar 1, 2012)

Picklelily said:


> Really sorry you are wrong the BBC programme Don't get done get Dom covered this recently.
> 
> He followed quarantine officers visiting people with their newly obtained pups from abroad. It was sad seeing the pups confiscated when their passports were found to be falsified and their owners facing signing them over or large quarantine bills. Admittedly none of the dogs were from rescues but with the development of so many Facebook unregistered rescues appear its certainly a possibility.


I understand what you are saying but it is not really worthwhile to fake the pet passport, they are easy to obtain for dogs wishing to travel because the vaccinations in order to get a passport are cheap in Eastern Europe.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

LolaBoo said:


> I know none of them come without baggage, the younger ones do as well just maybe not as extreme, trust is a big issue with some, we have only had Apple a day so i cant say if any issues will arise but if they do we will deal with them, she wont be going back shes our dog and we will do what is best for her within our home


I'm not saying you personally can't/won't deal with any issues that arise but not everyone can/will and I don't think some of the rescues are doing enough to guard against that. Because of their genetic makeup, some of these dogs grow up to be aloof, independent and 'guardy' and that's not what your average British dog owner is used to. If a novice dog owner came on here wanting a breed with those traits they'd be advised to think carefully about their decision, it should be no different with imported street dogs.

A quick google shows that not only are some of these dogs that are being imported into foster difficult to home because of their behaviour, elderly and disabled dogs are also being imported:

Sandy (Love Underdogs, Warwickshire) » Oldies Club
Becky (Love Underdogs, Warwickshire) » Oldies Club
Leo (Foal Farm, Biggin Hill, Kent) » Oldies Club
Blue  18 month old male Cross-Breed dog for adoption

I think most people in rescue will tell you that old and blind dogs are close to 'staffie level' when it come to difficulty in finding them a home. Importing these kinds of dogs, with no home to go to, just for them to sit in rescue for months/years on end doesn't sit well with me.

I also don't really like that cats are available for importing ( Action Aid for Animals - The Only UK registered and UK based charity focusing on the plight of Romanian and Croatian Strays ), one thing we are really not short of in the UK is homeless domestic shorthair cats.


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## polishrose (Oct 26, 2011)

DogLove3 said:


> I understand what you are saying but it is not really worthwhile to fake the pet passport, they are easy to obtain for dogs wishing to travel because the vaccinations in order to get a passport are cheap in Eastern Europe.


You're right there.The microchipping costs more than the pet passport and vaccinations needed in Poland.


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## amylyanne (Apr 30, 2012)

Very interesting thread, as you all probably know I have a dog from Spain, but I don't get offended when people are against adopting from abroad, I find their points valid and interesting for the most part. 

I try not to judge, I personally wouldn't buy a puppy or breed one; but thats not to say I think people that do so are wrong or I can take a holier than stance with them, because its all about someones personal preference/circumstance/requirements. Its probably easy for me to say I can rescue dogs rather than buy; I don't have any kiddies, cats or small furries to think about. Its just me, the pooch and my OH at home who are all dog savvy, so Im not phased by most potential rescue dog problems, but if say I had kids to add into the equation, things might be different as you want to keep them safe. But in saying I don't judge, I do get angry with back yard breeders and puppy farms yes, so maybe I do just a little . 

I have a spanish dog yes, me and my OH fell in love with him when we were out volunteering at a spanish rescue. I had lived, breathed, slept and worked bloody hard with him and the other dogs in the shelter for 2 months. Once I had met him and fallen in love with him, there was no way I wanted to not be with him. We were not homechecked to get him, but ONLY because we were known volunteers for the rescue; otherwise we would have to have gone through the same stringent checks as any UK rescue would have in place. 

On getting home from spain the first time, within a week or so I was fostering a dog for the same organisation, a 10 year old collie cross with problems, from the UK. This particular rescue do not see borders or boundaries, only dogs that need help. his desperate owner who needed to rehome him had been turned down from all the major rescues and some smaller ones, on the basis of his age and issues. I can now happily say he is living it up with a wonderful family and is the perfect dog. had it have not been for this organisation he would have been PTS two years ago when his owner needed him out. 

soon we are hoping to be able to add him a friend to our household, an english dog this time I think. I would LOVE to have a podenco next, as would Brucie (I think he thinks he is one, but thats a whole other thread I guess). But I would like to take a dog from a rescue here, to do my bit for our dogs too, so I will be doing that If we can pass home checks etc.

I can only speak for spain as I have no experience with Rommies etc. but here we go.. 

anyways, Thought I'd throw the proverbial podenco in with the pigeons and add a few points I thought of when reading this thread....

1. Just as they are in the uk, not all rescues are equal abroad. some are really good; they focus much of their time money and energy on trap/neuter/release programmes and local education and help (such as helping with spaying and neutering costs for local pets), to try and stem the problem at the source. these are the ones that will refuse people a dog if they do not match the requirements. I have also seen bad ones that will just fling any dog into any situation. But as with breeders, rescues and even people, some are better and some are worse. It is about finding a rescue whos policies and procedures match those of your own and supporting them if thats what you want to do. 

2. The majority of dogs in the shelter I was in are not 'feral' they are dumped pets. True there are some that are probably un-rehomeable for various reasons; they live it up as sponsor dogs, spending the rest of their days in the shelter or a long term foster home in spain, with regular walks, love, food, comfy beds, enrichment and toys. My own dog, whilst he was a pet, had not been in a home before. I can honestly say that in almost 2 years of having him he has never once gone potty in the house (hardly even in the garden), and is brilliant with kids, even babies. Now he is an exception to the rule, most of these dogs do need careful training and introductions to their new world. It not a job for just anyone to take on (hence why we should all support the good, responsible rescues). What Im saying is, not every dog from abroad is going to be a feral beast, it is individual to each dog, the same as there are very dog friendly bull breeds and small furry friendly greyhounds in rescue; its about finding the dog thats right for you. 

3. The first time I was out volunteering with dogs abroad was at the start of the bad economic downturn in Spain, meaning British ex pats were leaving in the thousands, at the time when there was still at 6 month wait after rabies vaccination before travel. Guess where their dogs ended up? tied to our gates, thrown over the fence, thrown out of cars, left in repossessed houses etc. and these pets, they are not like the hunting dogs out there, they do not survive the same when turned out, they don't see the shelter as the most wonderful place on earth because of the love and walks and regular meals like the strays do; they suffer. We had families with their cars all packed up turn up with dogs as they were leaving spain, kids bawling their eyes out in the back at the fact their dog was going into rescue. We had a name for the dogs that we scanned and found had an originally english microchip the 'not my problem' dogs. because that is the answer you would get when you told the person answering the +44 number you were calling in the hope someone would finally be happy you had found their once loved pets. My own dog is another ex-pat ex-pet. It is a problem caused by people, just people, not a specific type or colour or creed of person. 

4. you only have to read some of the responses on this thread to see that having a rescue from abroad is not something you would want to widely advertise to any tom, dick and harry as a 'kudos' thing. I try as little as possible to tell someone where brucie is from unless they ask. he is a great ambassador for the rescue he is from, but unless I've got time for a discussion about it as lengthy as this thread and my essay of a reply I keep my trap shut about his roots (also It helps me to not have to say 'no, he doesn't speak spanish, he speaks dog 7827572 times a day!) 

5. Now Im going to make generalisations again, but you only have to watch dogs in a pen in a rescue centre abroad interact in a big group, to know that generally, they are much better socialised dog-wise. Dogs in the environment s they are in before rescue, do not survive unless they learn how to avoid conflict with other dogs, so they are generally good at living in a multi dog household (again, there are exceptions, this is just an general observation). I can honestly say I am worried about taking a dog from a UK rescue for this reason; unless you have a known history of them living with other dogs, sure they may be good with other dogs but can they live with other dogs with minimal conflict? who knows. 

I think thats about it, sorry for such a long and rambling post!


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## amylyanne (Apr 30, 2012)

Another thing, even though it is slightly off the original point I wonder about looking into, is why don't we 'reverse' what people are seeing as the issue. Probably a whole other thread but... 

Sweden, as an example, I am led to believe, has extremely good standards of dog welfare as a whole. They have few dogs in rescue centres compared to us, and more people adopting rather than buying dogs, So it is not as uncommon there to adopt from abroad (I think, as I said this is only from conversations with fellow volunteers out from Sweden in spain; I haven't seen any proper facts or figures on this). I think there are some Swedish PFers who may be able to explain better??? 
anyway, Sweden is just a general example, could be anywhere EU that has less dogs 'spare' than us. 

So if our teeny island is so full, why aren't we turning the idea upside down and exporting our rescues?

It's something Im thinking of looking into on a deeper level. at the moment these are simply the rambling musings of a mad woman.


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