# Old cat vet visit. Questions ??



## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello. (update on page 3. Been to vet) 

I have made an app to take our old ish (18 in may) cat to the vets tomorrow evening. 

He is still playful, eating/drinking well. Toilets all ok. Doesn't look stiff. Can still jump high up etc. 

Anyway, he hasn't seen a vet for a while as hates them with a passion. So we want everything checked in one visit. 

What should I be asking them to do? Is asking for full bloods a bit ott? People who know about my other cat will understand why. 

The only reason for the vet visit is slight weight loss 

Thank you 

Jen x


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Hi Jen,

No, full bloodwork isn't OTT at all-in fact to be highly recommended annually for older cats! It's the only way to get an idea of how the organs are functioning and the best way of detecting underlying ( potential ) conditions early! Also a good physical examination by the vet as well.

In view of the weight loss as well I'd also get them to run a thyroid test. I'd also highly recommend a blood pressure check as well in all animals and esp those who are older!

Mind you he does sounds very healthy indeed! I too have a very similar soon to be 18 year-old who's amazing for her age, still running around like a kitten!

Best of luck with visit! Hope it goes smoothly!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you. That's brill. He certainly dosent act his age!!
Think that's the best bet. So, 
Thyroid 
Blood pressure
Full bloods
Full examine. 

Anyone think of anything else?


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

moandben said:


> Thank you. That's brill. He certainly dosent act his age!!
> Think that's the best bet. So,
> Thyroid
> Blood pressure
> ...


Sounds good to me, hope everythings ok


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

I second that! 

And great advice from Ianthi as per usual


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Dally Banjo said:


> Sounds good to me, hope everythings ok


Thank you. Me too. I forget he is as old as is.

He really really doesn't do vets or the cat box. So should be rather interesting trying to get there and get bloods etc 
That's why I want to get as much checked in one visit as possible so as not to keep stressing him out.

Will update tomorrow evening if I am not covered in blood and scratches !


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

the old man


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

He's a stunner! And looks a bit feisty...Good luck with the check up  x


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Oh my, he is a looker! And certainly doesn't look his age


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Hi this may be wrong,but it certainly was the case a few years ago when I worked in a vet surgery.Blood tests were always scheduled for morning appts.They had to send the samples to a lab for testing as they did not do their own.just thought I would mention it as It would not be good to get there tomorrow evening and find that they couldnt do them.


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

buffie said:


> Hi this may be wrong,but it certainly was the case a few years ago when I worked in a vet surgery.Blood tests were always scheduled for morning appts.They had to send the samples to a lab for testing as they did not do their own.just thought I would mention it as It would not be good to get there tomorrow evening and find that they couldnt do them.


Good thinking batman :thumbup:

I would ring & check 1st its bad enough going once but haveing to go back is :scared: our vet's does some tests on site mainly the health check ones & thyroid but they have to send some away. He's a real stunner by the way


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you for the kind thought. They do most checks on site as a hospital, but they said that if needed they courier to external lab. 
Would it make much difference if they took blood in the evening and didn't send to lab till next morning ? As I know with checking charlies ionised calcium the Swindon vets do it on site as the levels are not so accurate from older blood. 

Not sure what they check on site ( only know they do pcv, calcium ) as have registered my other cat with them but haven't used them yet as still going to Swindon. 

Jen


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

moandben said:


> Thank you for the kind thought. They do most checks on site as a hospital, but they said that if needed they courier to external lab.
> Would it make much difference if they took blood in the evening and didn't send to lab till next morning ? As I know with checking charlies ionised calcium the Swindon vets do it on site as the levels are not so accurate from older blood.
> 
> Not sure what they check on site ( only know they do pcv, calcium ) as have registered my other cat with them but haven't used them yet as still going to Swindon.
> ...


From what I can remember they preferred fresh blood samples.If taken during evening surgery they would be lying for 12+ hours before even being picked up by the courier,which,in some instances would not be ideal.If it were me I would phone and check with them.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you. Will ring in the morning. 
Jen


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

moandben said:


> Thank you. Will ring in the morning.
> Jen


:thumbsup:Good luck


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you. Really worried in case there is something wrong. I have spent so much time at the vets in the last year I don't think I could cope with any more probs. 

Jen


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I do sympathise ,Ive had more than my fair share of vet scares,especially with oldies,but it is better to put your mind at ease.There is probably nothing more to it than old age.Fingers crossed x.


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## Pippinpie (Oct 30, 2010)

Hello

I hope everything goes well for you. I thought I would mention that my vet does a senior cat health check for about £100+ that includes bloods, urine, blood pressure and the usual eyes, body, teeth, weight etc checks. For my cats bloods I have to take him in the morning before food, I think this is to check kidney function as he's on metacam so we do regular checks to make sure he's doing ok. Good luck at the vets.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Well, we are back from the vets. Full bloods taken and being sent to lab at 9pm. Vets should have results back late morning tomorrow. 

He said he looked well for a cat of his age

BUT, he said it feels like his thyroid is enlarged!! 

Fingers crossed the results are good. 

Jen x


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> Well, we are back from the vets. Full bloods taken and being sent to lab at 9pm. Vets should have results back late morning tomorrow.
> 
> He said he looked well for a cat of his age
> 
> ...


Of course, fingers are firmly crossed. Even if it is HT, it isn't the end of the world


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Fingers and paws crossed for a good result.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you. We all have fingers and paws crossed. X


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Any news yet


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Nope. I have rang and they have the results but no one free to look at them and call me!! Will be paying a visit there soon if they don't hurry up. I'm not the most patient person. 

Jen


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

moandben said:


> Nope. I have rang and they have the results but no one free to look at them and call me!! Will be paying a visit there soon if they don't hurry up. I'm not the most patient person.
> 
> Jen


I hope its good news  x


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you. Will update when I hear. Have just rang again and been promised a call back in next 15 mins. 

Jen


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> Thank you. Will update when I hear. Have just rang again and been promised a call back in next 15 mins.
> 
> Jen


And?????????????????????? One of those 15 minutes, eh? Hate when they do that


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm back.. He is HT just about to upload blood results. Just been to vets to pick up Felimazole 5mg once twice a day for three weeks.

Jen


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> I'm back.. He is HT just about to upload blood results. Just been to vets to pick up Felimazole 5mg once twice a day for three weeks.
> 
> Jen


Ah Ianthi and Paddypaws should rally round in no time to help you out there!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

:confused1: Anyone make any sense of these ?

first pill in, wrapped in chicken.. not sure how long that idea will last!!

Anyway, i'm off to put the horses to bed, will be back in about an hour. 
:sad::sad::sad:

jen x


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Well I cannot claim to be an expert on this, Ianthi is the pro!
Is that a T4 of 86?? Ouch, pretty high. Are you dosing Felimazole twice a day? The 3 week re-test is standard I believe.
TBH, I think HT is incredibly common in cats of advanced age so it is not so surprising. IF the felimazole works then you have the situation under control and I find it a very easy drug to administer. The tiny pills are easily hidden in food....meat as you already used, a small piece of cheese, a blob of Primula, or even a piece of webbox treat stick. Personally I would not be willing to put a cat of this age through either surgical removal or the radio iodine treatment.
Am I right in thinking his liver enzymes also showed up high in the test? What did the vet have to say about that?


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Simba was 15 when he had his removed, he's 17 now & fine but not sure if he would be up to the op now 

Everything crossed here the pills work x


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Paddypaws said:


> Well I cannot claim to be an expert on this, Ianthi is the pro!
> Is that a T4 of 86?? Ouch, pretty high. Are you dosing Felimazole twice a day? The 3 week re-test is standard I believe.
> TBH, I think HT is incredibly common in cats of advanced age so it is not so surprising. IF the felimazole works then you have the situation under control and I find it a very easy drug to administer. The tiny pills are easily hidden in food....meat as you already used, a small piece of cheese, a blob of Primula, or even a piece of webbox treat stick. Personally I would not be willing to put a cat of this age through either surgical removal or the radio iodine treatment.
> Am I right in thinking his liver enzymes also showed up high in the test? What did the vet have to say about that?


Hi, his T4 86.7. He had his first pill this afternoon. Once twice a day. I told the vet yesterday that the op was not an option. He is too old. 
We will try the pills and hope they work.

The vet didn't say when to start the pills of whether to try and get two in today?? Need to do lots of reading.

Jen x


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

I would not worry about another pill today. I dose my two at breakfast, and then dinner time...so roughly 12 hours apart as this way the drug gives most coverage.
Check what your vet charges for a prescription as it will be cheaper to buy the pills online from Bestpet, Medicanimal or similar...although you have to factor in the cost of the script and slight hassle involved.
What did vet say about the liver values?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

He didnt. He said everything else was ok. It wasn't till I asked for a copy of his results that he said a couple of things were up a bit but nothing to worry about. 

Should I be worrying ?

Jen


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Just a warning not to panic if his back legs go a bit as if he is drunk, the vet will give you some potassium pills as well. I could'nt get them in Simba at all so got it in a liquid it cost more put easier  x


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Hope the pills stablise him and he is back to normal soon.I had an elderly cat with HT too and she did well on pills despite being insulin dependant diabetic as well.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

How quick would you expect him to put some weight back on? 

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Hi Jen,

Been out all day but very glad I've seen your post! Glad I did because I'm very concerned at the level of thyroid medication!

I've had a quick look at results-A T4 of 86 is only *mildly elevated*-normal should be between 15-40 so you'll see what I mean. My corresponding oldest had a T4 of 224 on first diagnosis! ALT and ALP refer to liver values and are most probably elevated due to the hyperthyroidism. At the moment kidneys levels are within range ( urea and creatinine ) and are good but I will explain more about this at a later stage and the effect the hypert may or may not have on them!

The vet has prescribed 5mg Felimazole twice daily? I sincerely hope this isn't correct because this dose is *far too* high for a T4 level of 86. Are you absolutely sure you were given the 5mg and not the 2.5mg tablets? With a dose this high you risk putting the cat into a hyperthyroid state ( due to sudden drop in thyroid levels ) which could be very dangerous where the kidneys especially are concerned ie you risk putting the cat into renal failure!

The idea with hyperthyroid medication is to start at a _very_ low dose ( more particularly so with a T4 of 86 ) and increase the dose ( if necessary ) very gradually-thus avoiding this sudden drop mentioned earlier. Therefore I would query this very high dose with the vet ( cite concern for kidneys ) and in the meantime only give* one* tablet per day. Ideally though 2.5mg daily would be the best starting one divided into two doses ie 1.25mg each and I would certainly ask the vet to change to the 2.5mg tablets instead!

I hope this makes sense at this late hour-sorry but quite tired now but wanted to give you this info asap!

.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you very much. I will give him his pill this morning as he had his first one yesterday afternoon. 

What should I say to the vets. ? This is a new one to me and have read a bit but no where near understanding it all. 

Jen


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> Thank you very much. I will give him his pill this morning as he had his first one yesterday afternoon.
> 
> What should I say to the vets. ? This is a new one to me and have read a bit but no where near understanding it all.
> 
> Jen


Did you just get the pills or did they give you a proper packet? I.e do you have the sheet of paper that talks about usage, dosage, side effects etc? There is also a technical brochure - just google Felimazole Technical Brochure - FELIMAZOLE®, which talks about a starting dose of 2.5g twice daily for the long-term management of FHT to avoid the side effects that can come about with the higher dosages.

You have got a good relationship with your vet, haven't you? Could you pop in and ask them why they recommend 5g twice daily instead of the 2.5g as a starting point?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

The good relations are with the referral vets in Swindon. We used a new vets this time local one as wanted to change from are main one. I am quite happy to ring the new vets up and ask but don't want to sound silly. 
It is the full box, with leaflet. And def 5 mg. 

Jen


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> The good relations are with the referral vets in Swindon. We used a new vets this time local one as wanted to change from are main one. I am quite happy to ring the new vets up and ask but don't want to sound silly.
> It is the full box, with leaflet. And def 5 mg.
> 
> Jen


No, I don't think you will sound silly just because you have got a query regarding dosage now that you have had time to read on the subject, the drug and the suggested starting dose.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Just to let you all know I am off to the vets again in a bit to collect the right meds. 

I spoke to a different vet who said she would of given him 2.5 mg twice a day for three weeks then check bloods. I am really peed off that this vet gave him to stronger dose. He didn't even check his heart in the consultation. 

Thank you soo much for making me aware. 

Jen x


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> Just to let you all know I am off to the vets again in a bit to collect the right meds.
> 
> I spoke to a different vet who said she would of given him 2.5 mg twice a day for three weeks then check bloods. I am really peed off that this vet gave him to stronger dose. He didn't even check his heart in the consultation.
> 
> ...


Excellent news Jen! And thanks for Ianthi and PP for having their head firmly screwed on (ermm not sure this is the right expression but the only one I can think of right now...)


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

O my god yes. Just imagine if I hadn't posted or you guys weren't here. 

I am thinking about having a word with the practice manager when I go there. 

What do you think ? 

Jen x


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

I can't accept any praise for my input....all down to Ianthi! I was too lazy sitting on my sofa to go and check the size of the pills I use ( 2.5mg! ) so missed that one.
I know that the way to go is to use the _lowest_ dose possible so as not to leave the kidneys vulnerable to failure.
Weight should start to stabilise/go up pretty quickly once the pills get in the system and slow the metabolism down. Feeding a good quality meat protein based diet can help this. Did the vet weigh him at this first appointment so you have figures to compare to?
Oh...and as far as micro-dosing and splitting pills goes....I do this, but the packet insert warns against it, also the vet _always_ mentions it at check up time ( then we agree that I will carry on! )
Apparently splitting pills increases the risk of gastric upset ( so you monitor this at home ) also we need to be careful to use gloves or wash hands carefully so as not to be absorbing the medication ourselves. Interestingly there is NO SUCH WARNING on Felimazole in North America, it is an EU thing.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Hi Jen,

Actually last night I edited my first post to include more information about the impact of treating hyperthyroidism on kidneys but unfortunately ( probably due to late hour! ) it didn't appear in the post! I think you need to understand this owing to your current situation!!

It's normal for kidneys to deteriorate as a cat gets older but symptoms of renal problems don't appear until about 30% of function is left. It's the same for people and even though sounds scary in actual fact it isn't in terms of medical managment!

Now with hyperthyroidism the metabolism is speeded up with the consequence all the organs ( inc the kidneys ) work faster. This effect can be detrimental to them but where the kidneys are concerned they filter a lot better owing to this increased metabolic rate so on paper a cat with *pre-existing *kidney problems appears OK very often with values within normal ranges because the untreated hyperthyroidims is actually _masking_ them! So at this stage renal problems can remain undetected! I'm not saying your cat has problems only that you can't _know_ for certain at this point!

Therefore with treating the hyperthyroidism the metabolic rate is effectively slowed down with the result the kidneys filtering capacity is also decreased! It's at this stage when 'normal' euthyoid thyroid function is restored ie it is within normal ranges that the kidneys true functioning capacity is revealed. So in essence until the hypert is controlled you don't actually know the 'true condition' of the kidneys.

Where the kidneys are concerned it's extremely important that this decrease in metabolic rate happens_ slowly_ in order to give them a chance to adjust really. What you want to avoid at all costs is a sudden drop ( which a high intitial dose would in your case most likely achieve ) because of the impact on their filtering ability. Numberous cats have gone into renal failure owing to this too high dosing very often because they have actually gone hypothyroid ie now underactive thyroid state and sometimes this damage is irreversible.

I would just explain to the vet you are concerned about the impact on the kidneys and would prefer to have a lower initial dose for this reason. You can always chance up again in the _unlikely_ event this dosage isn't sufficient but at the moment under the circumstances I wouldn't risk it!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you so much. So much to learn. 

I have been back to the vets and now have pink 2.5 mg. Other ones were bright orange. 

I have complained and am expecting a phone call from one of the partners. 
I think it's a case of better the devil you know with vets. Think we will be returning to are old ones. 

I really cannot thank you all enough for all the advice and noticing the medication error. 

Thank you 

Jen xxxxx


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Fantastic news!

So interested to hear what the vets reaction was on requesting the lower meds? So the latest prescription is 2.5mg twice daily?

It's always a good idea to have some knowledge of condition you're cat is suffering from in order to be pro-active yourself in the process. Being informed also enables you to feel less overwhelmed by things as well and in a better position to deal with problems if they arise.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Ah! Just seen the other posts which I missed while writing my penultimate one! It was a different vet you spoke to!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> Fantastic news!
> 
> So interested to hear what the vets reaction was on requesting the lower meds? So the latest prescription is 2.5mg twice daily?
> 
> It's always a good idea to have some knowledge of condition you're cat is suffering from in order to be pro-active yourself in the process. Being informed also enables you to feel less overwhelmed by things as well and in a better position to deal with problems if they arise.


yep, 2.5mg twice a day now. I spoke to a different vet before i went there, she said for a cat that is not showing much clinical signs and a T4 reading of under 100 she would have given him 2.5mg twice a day for three weeks. Not 5mg twice a day.

I haven't spoken to the original vet and don't really want to.. he was not interested in Casper just getting us out quickly. He didn't weigh him or check his heart.

To be fair it was only Tuesday we took him in, got the results yesterday and feel I have learnt quite a bit already.

Back to work tomorrow so plenty of time for google !!! I will read and try and understand as much as I can.

Hopefully I can add Hyperthyroidism to my list of the the other subjects I try and learn about.
Pure Red cell Aplasia and Primary Hypoparathyroidism are my only subjects to date. ( thats the other cat)

Is there anywhere you would suggest i read ?

Thank you all so much for your help.

jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Hi Jen,

I've included a link to petplace which is a very user friendly site for owners! It has lots of very useful articles on different conditions and even though US based is still relevant!

Hyperthyroidism in Cats

In your case the hypert is only mild though ( unlike my oldest who after a successful bilteral thyroidectomy the condition is now no more ) it should be fairly easily to control. Incidentally got Sophie's bloodwork a few days ago and apparently she's in very good nick for a nearly 18-year -old! No kidney problems at all even though I would have expected some minor deterioration at this stage!

Keep an eye on your little one while on the medication-it can have some side-effects unfortunately though not in all cases-mine didn't for instance! Post again if you have a problem.

NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Felimazole® 2.5 mg Coated Tablets for Cats - Contra-indications, warnings, etc

Good luck with it all!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you. Have been doing a bit of reading. 

Also, I spoke to one of the partners there and he said the dose was correct with the 5mg twice a day. And that if we see him he can tell if his t4 has gone down by just listining to his heart??? Is this right! I cant see how you get an accurate enough reading to work out meds from that?!!!!


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

With untreated hyperthyroid the heart rate speeds up owing to the increased metabolic rate so theoretically when it's under control then it should be slower. It's not always a clear indicator though-we had a case here recently where the rate was still fast even though the T4 levels were within normal range!

The only definitive way to find out is through a bloodtest!

I admire *not* the partner's loyalty!


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

While I remember Jen-I'd highly recommend two things:-

*Joining the Yahoo Hyperthyroid group-a fantastic source of advice and information on the condition. Run by people who are dealing with this on a daily basis for years! Here's the link

feline-hyperT : A support list for people whose cats have been diagnosed as hyperthyroid (hypothyroid also welcome).

*Changing your vets!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> While I remember Jen-I'd highly recommend two things:-
> 
> *Joining the Yahoo Hyperthyroid group-a fantastic source of advice and information on the condition. Run by people who are dealing with this on a daily basis for years! Here's the link
> 
> ...


We will def NOT be going back to new vets, back to old ones I think. There is only two main ones near me.

Will join the group now. Thank you so much Ianthi.

Jen


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Just a little update..

Casper is doing well, eating well still. He is having a bit of salmon oil a couple of times a week which he loves.

He is really into raw food which is great for pills as i just wrap them up in food !!.

No visable side effects from the drugs which is good. 

We are booked in at the old vets ( not the ones we went to) on the 25th Feb to recheck bloods and have a proper examination !!

Jen


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah, great news!


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, good news indeed! Mine did well on Felimazole despite evidence that lots of cats had bad reactions ( vomiting, itching ) to it!

If you notice any changes ( particularly lethargy ) just lower the dose!

Good luck with blood tests and let us know results!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Had a bit of a problem this morning. 

At the moment I am putting his pills in either pate or small amount of raw and praying that he eats it in one go rather than licking it.

It has all worked well for a week but this morning he found the pill !!! 

15 mins later, lots of scratches on me a very peed off cat and he has had it....

Help, any ideas for pilling a cat that really really doesnt want it.

He is so quick with his arms that he just grabs you the second you go to do it !!

Just hoping that he will continue to eat it in the raw.

Jen


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

We used to give Simba's his wraped up in a bit of waferthin ham, a little ham 1st to get him excited then a bit with the pill in while holding another bit that he could see so he did'nt notice the pill :thumbup: failing that its the old wrap up in a towel method here


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Dally Banjo said:


> We used to give Simba's his wraped up in a bit of waferthin ham, a little ham 1st to get him excited then a bit with the pill in while holding another bit that he could see so he did'nt notice the pill :thumbup: failing that its the old wrap up in a towel method here


I think the ham will be the next thing, but i bet that wont last long. He is too clever.

Towel method is still painful for me and very stressful to casper.( I think he thinks I am trying to kill him ) It wouldn't be so much of an issue if my Husband was there every morning and evening. He works away alot so might be away all week one week then only a few the week after.

I have one of thoose pill poppers that I was given for my other cat but never used it as he is such a good boy.

Fingers crossed the raw and Ham will work for a couple weeks till we are next at the vets.

Really wondering if we should consider the op now !! Is he too old ??

Jen


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

moandben said:


> I think the ham will be the next thing, but i bet that wont last long. He is too clever.
> 
> Towel method is still painful for me and very stressful to casper.( I think he thinks I am trying to kill him ) It wouldn't be so much of an issue if my Husband was there every morning and evening. He works away alot so might be away all week one week then only a few the week after.
> 
> ...


mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Simba was 15 when he had his & I was so sorried then but the pills were a real issue  but has been like a new cat since even put on some weight :thumbup:

When he is due back for his bloods the vet will be able to advise you x


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

We are booked in for the 25th, That will be three weeks and 1 day on the pills..

Jen


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

moandben said:


> We are booked in for the 25th, That will be three weeks and 1 day on the pills..
> 
> Jen


:scared: I dont envy you the pill giving till then  at least by then hopefully the levels will be back to normal though & if an op is suggested they can do it straight away x


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Have you tried those treat stick from Tesco? Or pieces of chunky chicken or cheese? If necessary you can split the pills in two.

Agree it's best not to stress him ( or you! ) out too much!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

He is a bit fussy and very very clever ( Wise Old Man )

I buy the 'stickys' as they are know in our house for my other cat naughty. But Casper doesn't like them.

Chicken worked on the first day, but not the 2nd.

I really think I might end up running out of food options ( Also don't want to put him off eating as need to get a bit of weight on him ) 

I am hoping the raw food will carry on working as he loves it so much I don't think he actually chews it.



Would anyone consider putting a nearly 18 year old cat through the OP ?

Jen


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

I think it would depend on how well the cat was, if it was Simba now(17) who had just started then yes, but our old Misty:001_wub: who was 18 no but she did'nt have a thyroid problem her kidneys were packing up  x


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

This may be slightly off topic but I had heard that the active ingredient in flea treatments can cause thyroid problems. I am currently doing some research into it and if anyone is interested I will post links to my findings. In the mean time I am going to open a poll to find out how many cats with thyroid problems have been treated with flea products.

All the best with your cats treatment OP x


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

ClaireLily said:


> This may be slightly off topic but I had heard that the active ingredient in flea treatments can cause thyroid problems. I am currently doing some research into it and if anyone is interested I will post links to my findings. In the mean time I am going to open a poll to find out how many cats with thyroid problems have been treated with flea products.
> 
> All the best with your cats treatment OP x


Interesting thought, I only use frontline spot on probably once a year if that on the cats & do 2 cats with one capsul thing, they are indoor cats though & the dogs are done regularly & spots crossed never had a problem


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

I think I will wait and see what happens at next vet visit. 

If his T4 levels are down to normal will they reduce pills to once a day or will he have to carry on on 2 a day. 

Jen


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

ClaireLily said:


> This may be slightly off topic but I had heard that the active ingredient in flea treatments can cause thyroid problems. I am currently doing some research into it and if anyone is interested I will post links to my findings. In the mean time I am going to open a poll to find out how many cats with thyroid problems have been treated with flea products.
> 
> All the best with your cats treatment OP x


Hiya,

Yes he has been done fairly reg with Frontline, from the age of about 5 - 12 ( when Husband lived at his parents home ) i had to do him every 8 weeks or so as there was 7 cats there. And not the cleanest of houses.

When we moved out he was a lot better so only tend to do it every 3 - 5 months.

With regards to your poll, I have filled it in. 
The only problem I can see with it is most people ( i think ) tend to deflea there cats...

Jen


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

moandben said:


> I think I will wait and see what happens at next vet visit.
> 
> If his T4 levels are down to normal will they reduce pills to once a day or will he have to carry on on 2 a day.
> 
> Jen


Sorry cant help you on that one but I would think so


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> Would anyone consider putting a nearly 18 year old cat through the OP ?
> 
> Jen


Sorry, didn't see this yesterday! I think your vet would be the best to assess this for you-basically it depends on the physical condition of the cat and your vets willingness/experience in doing the procedure! It's not unheard of though!

As far as I remember your cat had low T4 levels which would indicate to me the benign tumour is not that extensive at this stage anyway. So, considering all the risk factors with anaesthesia etc having an operation at this point wouldn't be my choice for this reason since I would think it's level is already well within range at this point and for long term management I wouldn't be surprised if a lower maintainence dose ( even once daily ) might be all that's required for stabilising it! If on the other hand things change at some point in the future -the tumour may enlarge over time though _perhaps_ making regulation more difficult -you may have to reconsider things, though of course you have to take his increasing age into consideration as well!

Another thing to remember is that's the operation isn't always successful especially in cases where the cells have migrated to other areas outside of thyroid for example the chest!

Don't forget as well that it's normal for the tumour to grow on the other side of the thyroid about a year later and the condition 'reappears' again with the same treatment implications so essentially you're back to square one!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

I think we could manage if he goes down to one pill a day, He hates it. This morning he remembered what happened yesterday morning and was trying to hide from me. I really don't want him to end up hating me and being scared. 

I also don't really want to put him through the op. 

Lets hope his T4 levels will be good on the 25th when we go back.

Jen


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

A little update. 

We are going back to the vets this afternoon at 2:30 as Casper is being sick. A couple of times yesterday and a few today. Am thinking maybe it is a side effect of his drugs. 

Will update after vet visit. 

Jen x


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Sorry to hear this but think you're right about it being a side-effect of the Felimazole!

Best of luck with visit!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you. I know there is one other drug option but wondering if that is it? There must be others? Glad he is on only on the 2.5mg x2 a day not the 5mg x2 a day originally set for him 

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

The other drug is Vidalta - the lowest dose is 10mg and *not* to be recommended for the low levels Casper has - it's far too strong!

In fact I think you could even lower (halve ) the dose of Felimazole if he's being ill and see if this helps. Is he acting normally otherwise?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

He seems happy enough. A little quiet maybe but put that down to being sick, Eating well. So if they say about the other drug it's a no no?

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Definitiely not! It's OK generally in cats with much higher T4 levels than Caspers but have been very problematic in those with lower ones!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello we are back. Bloods taken. Will get the results tomorrow. His heart rate was good which if I am right implies that hopefully his T4 levels have dropped. 

The vet did mention Vidalta but depends on results. 

She also gave him a good check over and found a 'lump' could be poop but the word mass was mentioned. So probably going back tomorrow for a squeeze to see if it is still there. 

So just waiting again. 

Jen


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Everything crossed here for good results & he has'nt got something else brewing x


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you. X


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Oh Jen, you and your cats deserve a break away from vets. Everything is crossed for you here that it is just poop and nothing more sinister.

 (ooh scary smile lol)


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

It's typical, it's charlies first month in a year that he hasn't had to go to vets. So Casper will prob end up going three times this month!! He is looking a bit sorry for himself this evening. Is eating well though, had about half a small tin of Grau so doing ok. No more sick either. 

I haven't given him his pill this evening, not sure whether to or not? 

Thank god for insurance. 

Jen x


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

No wouldn't give pill this evening. For one thing it would help to narrow down what's making him ill which is always useful to know with meds. Also reckon he'll well within range at this stage and as a maintenance one the dose will probably be even less.

I wouldn't worry too much about the vet's obversations in view of above it's more than likely only stool!

Good luck tomorrow and let us know T4 result!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

I will post results as soon as I get them. 

You know the other pill Vidalta would they be able to prescribe it at a lower dose than the 10mg?


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

No 10mg is the smallest dose - hence all the comlaints!

A smaller dose of Felimazole though would have less side effects.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Brill. Thank you. Xx


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

We had more sick again last night, seems ok, but fed up. Gave him a very small breakfast this morning and my husband is home today so can give him another small meal late morning, Just want the blood results now. 

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Sorry to hear this! Has he pooped yet because she could well be constipated? 

Good luck with results and visit if you have one!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Not since Wednesday... I had been thinking this, If the vet can feel a lump and it is poop, Am i right in thinking Constipation can cause sickness ??

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, constipation can cause sickness. You can notice it particularly when the cat is having difficulty with stools in the litter tray!

If last time was Wed then a definite possibility so hope he goes soon!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

might get the lactolose out, we had some for naughty are other cat when he was on pills. 

Good thinking, thank you. Better than a vet this forum sometimes.. 

Jen


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

T4 is 19...

Big difference. We have an appt at vets at 12 today so will update more after then. 

They want a pee sample from him.!!

Jen


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

moandben said:


> T4 is 19...
> 
> Big difference. We have an appt at vets at 12 today so will update more after then.
> 
> ...


Good luck with getting that :crazy: x


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> Definitiely not! It's OK generally in cats with much higher T4 levels than Caspers but have been very problematic in those with lower ones!


In what way problematic??

We have just spent an hour at the vets. He is now missing lots of hair!!

Had a full on scan to look at 'mass'. Still not sure, could be a growth, could be something enlarged due to vomiting so have to starve him from Sunday lunchtime and take him back in on Monday for another scan and 'feel'.

The vet has changed his pills to the Vidalta 10mg. I asked about it being to strong and was told they think will be better for him to try and stop the sickness for a couple of weeks.

If the mass is a growth of some description and that is what is making him sick then he will have to have it removed. If he has to have the mass removed they have said they will do the thyroid at the same time.

I questioned the new drug and the dose and was told that it will be ok. It cannot make him too low as the vet likes to get them near 0 !!!

A very confused and stressed Jen xx


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> In what way problematic??
> 
> We have just spent an hour at the vets. He is now missing lots of hair!!
> 
> ...


Hi Jen,

Sorry to hear about the lump. Has he passed any stool today?

Just caught up with this. If you remember, Casper's original T4 was 86.7 with a euthyoid range of 14 - 50 meaning the correct reading should lie between these two values. At the moment it is 19 achieved by 2.5 Felimazole 2x daily ( not the 5mg twice a day as prescribed by the first vet ) which is where it should be considering the normal range.

A T4 of anywhere below 14 is actually *hypothyroid* which as I explained in my first alert in of all this is what you want to avoid especially where the kidneys are concerned because it will reduce the filtration rate and Casper will end up with kidney problems. You do not want your cat to do hypothyroid despite what your vet is saying - why, I have no idea ! In fact I would like to know what the current renal values ( ie urea and creatinine ) are in view of decreased T4 levels! There's a good chance they're lower than those with the elevated level of 86.7!

Vidalta is actually carbimazole which is synthesised by the liver to methimazole (Felimazole ) and even though the manufacturers say 10mg of carbimazole roughly equates to 6mg of methimazole in practice with Vidalta ( and I've heard a lot about Vidalta ) this is* not* the case. It works out far stronger than that! Either way 6mg is too potent for use with a T4 of 19 as a maintenance dose.

Currently Caspar has a reading of 19 and I dread to think where his level will be if he's given this 10mg dose of Vidalta - probably in the negative numbers! Despite evidence to the contrary vets still prescribe these ridiculously high doses which I find incredible!! The Hypert group is littered with such cases and Vidalta is one of the main contenders! I believe they would up in arms if they heard of a cat with a T4 of 19 being prescribed Vidalta!

This is what I would do - halve the tablets and give it once daily. Even though they stipulate the drug shouldn't be crushed/cut I know when a vet made an enquiry the manufacturers said it was OK to split the dose!

Please do not give the full 10mg at once. It is far too strong!

Hope the scan goes well on Monday as well!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Brill. A fab reply. Thank you so so much. 

Have read out your reply to caspers 'dad' and we are going to do the half a day. 

The vets other reason for changing him was that this one last for 24hrs slow release?? 

Still no poops. Vet said quite a bit in there. Has eaten a little bit this afternoon but has just been sick. 

We have given him 2mls of lactulose and vet prescribed Zantac pills. 

Thank you very much for all your help. Just hoping he poops and stops being sick now. 

I don't have full blood results will get vets to fax to me at work in the morning and will add on here as soon as I get them. 

Thank you. 

Jen xx


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> The vets other reason for changing him was that this one last for 24hrs slow release?? Jen xx


Ah! This is another thing about Vidalta! It has been marketed by Intervet? as a slow release medication but in practice this has been contentious! Cat owners have reported about the erratic nature of the drug which calls this into question.

Also considering it's efficacy is dependend upon being metabolised by the liver into methimazole, one has to appreciate that this ' processing' ability can vary from cat to cat!

I would monitor Casper carefully and if you notice any lethargy with the dose you can decrease it further and give a quarter daily.

I'm actually glad to hear he hasn't pooped yet (! ) because based on what you've written there's a good chance this is what's causing the current problems and not a 'mass' ! So try not to worry too much! The fact the vets are rather 'vague' about it as well is another good sign!

However, I do hope he produces some stool soon!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

I hope so. We will be keeping a very close eye on him. 

Think I might give him some more lactulose in a min as it really needs to come out. Do you know how much is safe to give him. 

Vets were vauge about the 'mass'. Both. We had two as one wasn't sure so asked another to join us. Both of them had a look on the scan machine too. 

Regardless of the mass I think I will have another blood test in two weeks to see how things are doing on the vidalta. 

I really do appreciate ALL your advice and support. Thank you. X


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Hi Jen!

Here's a link for Lactulose from Tanya's very reliable CRF site!

Tanya's Feline Chronic Renal Failure - constipation

Another thing to remember is that most general vets aren't skilled in ultrasound - accurate readings are best carried out by a skilled sonographer!

Agree completely about the blood test in view of change of medication and also as a monitor for correct maintenance dose. Do bear in mind in some cases though finding the exact one can be tricky! Think I'd invest in a pill cutter because I believe it will probably be lower than half a tablet!

Let us know how he does!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

We have a poop. Yippeeeee. Not a huge one as expected but fairly normal. 

So pleased. Took him a couple of mins to actually start. 

But we have had more sick! Think we might be back at the vets tomorrow. 

Thank you 

Jen


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Well, we are still having problems, has been sick again during the night and this morning,

Have spoke to vet and getting something else on the way home from work to stop sickness. 

feel so sorry for him, he looked so fed up this morning. 

Any ideas whether it could still be the other hypert drugs still in his system ?

Am starting to think it is something to do with the 'mass'

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Sorry to hear he's still vomiting! How often is this happening? Has he produced any further stools?

Now, even though these symptoms (side effects) were more common with Felimazole, according to the datasheet the same applies to Vidalta.

NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Vidalta 10 mg tablets for cats and Vidalta 15 mg tablets for cats - Contra-indications, warnings, etc

So it's difficult to pinpoint the exact cause at this stage considerig all the variables!

In your position, I would stop the tablet for today and see if there's any improvement. Also it would be interesting to see if vomiting might cease if he poos! I remember vet mentioned there was a lot!


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

As some of you may know our 8-year old Pebbles has just been diagnosed with Hyperthyroidism. She's been given an initial course of Vidalta 15mg tablets once daily for 2 weeks, then she's due back at the vets for a check up. We didnt think to ask for her actual blood results when we picked her up, so don't know what the T4 readings etc.. are. Will ask for them on her check up appointment.

Is this similar to what you were prescribed _Moandben_, I'm a bit concerned about what was mentioned in regard to 5mg being too much for yours, although I think you were given a different type of medication (Felimazole)?

Pebbles is also a FLUTD cat who has a history of struvite crystals and urinary tract infections.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Hi Pete,

Without knowing the actual T4 reading it's difficult to comment! I would ask the vets to confirm this tomorrow.

Having said that unless the T4 is very very high the 15mg is a very potent dose. For the moment keep a close eye on her. If you notice any lethargy etc please inform the vets immediately.


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

Ianthi said:


> Hi Pete,
> 
> Without knowing the actual T4 reading it's difficult to comment! I would ask the vets to confirm this tomorrow.
> 
> Having said that unless the T4 is very very high the 15mg is a very potent dose. For the moment keep a close eye on her. If you notice any lethargy etc please inform the vets immediately.


Ok thanks, will give the vet a call tomorrow and ask for some info regarding the results, especially the T4. Are there any other readings you specifically need?


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Renal values ie Urea and Creatinine would be useful if they have them!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello, sorry been a bit of a busy weekend. 

Casper hasn't been sick since yesterday morning. 

Didnt give him any pills last night apart from his anti sickness pill. Only had one today too 
Tonight I have given him half his 10mg vidalta. 
He isn't eating as much as normal but seems brighter in himself today. 

He had a poo Friday night but hasn't since. He has had max dose of lactulose this morning and this evening and still nothing. If he doesn't perform soon he will being taking another trip to the vets. 

Pete, your dose is high. That's one thing I have learnt. Ring your vets tomorrow and ask for the T4 results. 

Any tips to get your cat to poop!!! We have given him a few tummy rubs which just produce purring and dribble !!! 

Jen xx


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Spoke too soon. Just been sick.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Jen, I thought he was going to starve and then be off to the vet again tomorrow?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

He was, but that all changed yesterday. We had to pick up some anti sickness pills and try him on them. They wanted to try and stop the sickness first. They thought if it was the hyperthyroid pills making him sick then the sickness pills would stop it. 

He has until tomorrow evening on them then back in on Tuesday if not working. 

Very confusing, not sure what to do. 

Jen


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> He was, but that all changed yesterday. We had to pick up some anti sickness pills and try him on them. They wanted to try and stop the sickness first. They thought if it was the hyperthyroid pills making him sick then the sickness pills would stop it.
> 
> He has until tomorrow evening on them then back in on Tuesday if not working.
> 
> ...


But i thought he was supposed to starve and go back tomorrow not because of his sickness but because of his "mass"?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

So did I. But when we collected the pills yesterday the nurse said she had spoken to our vet who wanted him to have two days on the pills. So normal feeding and pills today and tomorrow and then starve him from late Monday night and take him in at 5:30 Tuesday for feel and scan if needed. Also because of the poop problems they wan to try and get things moving so we can get all the poop out before scanning and feeling. As it could still be poop not a mass. 

Does that make any sense! Sorry long day. 

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> Hello, sorry been a bit of a busy weekend.
> 
> Casper hasn't been sick since yesterday morning.
> 
> ...


When was the first anti sickness pill given?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> When was the first anti sickness pill given?


Sat night

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Well, if that's the case ( and he had no Vidalta either ) it points to it as being the cause of the sickness since he's recently been sick and not forgetting he did manage to keep food down yesterday !

Don't forget if he's not eating very much he's unlikely to produce much poo though! I'd wait and see what happens. Hope he goes soon.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Actually, how are you giving the tablet? How soon after is he ill?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

The vidalta? 

About an hour tonight. There dosent seem to be any pattern! 

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

I originally thought it might be irritating the tract on the way down. You might have better luck if given with food if not already doing so. Or a gelcap.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Yep always give with food. 

Just a thought. Until tonight the last time he was sick was yesterday morning. He didn't have any hypert drugs yesterday !! But did tonight and threw up after. 

Would it be possible that he can't tolerate both drugs?? 

Jen x


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Yes, it is possible


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

[QUOTE Would it be possible that he can't tolerate both drugs?? Jen x[/QUOTE]

By both drugs you mean the Vidalta and the Felimazole? That's exactly what I meant in first response this evening - looks as if the the Vidalta is now the cause! Was in rush so perhaps not clear!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

We think that might be it. We have decided that we will not give any more pills. Sickness or hypert pills. Going to speak to vets in the morning and see how long he can stay off the pills for without risking his hypert.

He was soo much brighter this morning after having no pills last night. 

Is it risky stopping all meds? 

Jen


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> [QUOTE Would it be possible that he can't tolerate both drugs?? Jen x


By both drugs you mean the Vidalta and the Felimazole? That's exactly what I meant in first response this evening - looks as if the the Vidalta is now the cause! Was in rush so perhaps not clear![/QUOTE]

Sorry. My fault. Bit stressed and tired, didn't take it in. Sorry and thank you. X


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> We think that might be it. We have decided that we will not give any more pills. Sickness or hypert pills. Going to speak to vets in the morning and see how long he can stay off the pills for without risking his hypert.
> 
> He was soo much brighter this morning after having no pills last night.
> 
> ...


Well, without the meds his T4 will go up again.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Well, without the meds his T4 will go up again.


Do you think he will have to have the op?


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

That's the difficulty Jen. It's essential to treat Hyperthyroidism! Apart from the effects on other organs it will only get worse.

Discuss your situation with the vet. Sounds like the operation might be your only option if you can't succeed in medicating him and do bear in mind this is not always successful.

The only thing I would suggest is halving the dose again - perhaps he can tolerate 1/4 tablet better.

He hasn't always been sick on the Felimazole though?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> Do you think he will have to have the op?


See what Ianthi says but if he is not accepting the meds to keep his hormones under control, then your only options are surgery (but even that is not infallible) or radioactive iodine as far as I am aware. Same as humans really.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Nope. He was fine on the Felimazole to start with. Two weeks. Will update after I have spoken to vet in the morning. Thank you Ianthi and Hobbs. You are both great and it's so nice to be able to 'talk' to you. 

Thank you 

Jen x


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> Nope. He was fine on the Felimazole to start with. Two weeks. Will update after I have spoken to vet in the morning. Thank you Ianthi and Hobbs. You are both great and it's so nice to be able to 'talk' to you.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Jen x


Well, I for one am as glad as you are that Ianthi is here with her knowledge of certain diseases and meds!

And always a pleasure talking to you too Jen!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello, I have spoken to the vet and we have decided that we will give him no medication for today and tomorrow and then if no sickness it points towards the pills. 
We will be going back to the vets wednesday night now for a feel of the 'mass' to see if it is still there.

If no sickness with no pills then he will prob be having the op. If the 'mass' is still there wednesday night then they will have a look whilst doing the hyperthyroid op. 

Only other option I can think of is to try him on one 2.5mg Felimazole a day and see if it is enough to keep the T4 down but not too much to make him sick.

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, considering he was OK on the Felimazole for two weeks it's definitely worth pursuing with it and see what's happens with a smaller dose. 

Considering it's better to medicate every 12 hours rather than once daily ( with Felimazole -the Vidalta is a different formulation ) I would try splitting the dose (2.5 ) in two - and administer twice a day! Perhaps he can tolerate these reduced levels. I'd opt for this as opposed to leaving him totally unmedicated for reasons mentioned earlier. Furthemore if this new dosing works it means you may not have to opt for the thyroidectomy after all!

Has he pooped at all?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Normal poop friday night. Nothing Sat, had in total 2mls of lactulose on Sat, 4mls yesterday and monster poop during the night last night. Still gave him 1ml this morning just to make sure. 

Do you think I should do the half a pill tonight and tomorrow or nothing for the two days just to let his stomach settle down ?


Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> Normal poop friday night. Nothing Sat, had in total 2mls of lactulose on Sat, 4mls yesterday and* monster poop during the night last night.* Still gave him 1ml this morning just to make sure.
> 
> Do you think I should do the half a pill tonight and tomorrow or nothing for the two days just to let his stomach settle down ?
> 
> Jen


Sounds as if you might well have the reason behind the mass! IF this is the case then it could account for or have contributed to the sickness as well.

If it were my cat then yes I would be inclined to try the lower dose and see how he responds. Now all that faecal matter had been expelled you might see an improvement! I realise though you've agreed with you vets to discontinue the meds for a few days but I suspect they just want to rule the hyperT drugs in/out as a causal factor of the vomiting!

Hope this works for you if you decide to do it!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Think I might give him the night off tonight and then start on the half in the morning, Will get mother in law round to baby sit for the day tomorrow to keep an eye on things. Really hope this sorts him out, feel so sorry for him. 

Jen


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

I just spoke with the vet, Pebbles' T4 value was 114 and she had increased liver enzymes as well.

Jen, did you say your boy was vomiting after he started taking the Vidalta? Pebbles has been on it since friday evening and has been ok so far, except for just now when she gobbled up our other cats wet food then threw up 5 minutes later. Little pig!


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

PeteJC21 said:


> I just spoke with the vet, Pebbles' T4 value was 114 and she had increased liver enzymes as well.
> 
> Jen, did you say your boy was vomiting after he started taking the Vidalta? Pebbles has been on it since friday evening and has been ok so far, except for just now when she gobbled up our other cats wet food then threw up 5 minutes later. Little pig!


Pete - Apparently there are less side effects ie vomiting reported with Vidalta than Felimazole though I hasten to add I didn't have any with F at all! Or rather my cats didn't.....!

I am concerned about the 15mg dose for a T4 of 114 though.I much prefer to see the lower dose for reasons discussed before. I would actually give half this daily. Is she showing any kinds of lethargy? If you notice the slightest change please contact the vet as soon as possible.

Did you manage to get the renal values at all? Incidentally the liver enzymes are nearly always raised owing to the hyperthyroidism and should resolve as soon as it's within normal ranges. It's nothing to worry about though!


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

Ianthi said:


> Pete - Apparently there are less side effects ie vomiting reported with Vidalta than Felimazole though I hasten to add I didn't have any with F at all! Or rather my cats didn't.....!
> 
> I am concerned about the 15mg dose for a T4 of 114 though.I much prefer to see the lower dose for reasons discussed before. I would actually give half this daily. Is she showing any kinds of lethargy? If you notice the slightest change please contact the vet as soon as possible.
> 
> Did you manage to get the renal values at all? Incidentally the liver enzymes are nearly always raised owing to the hyperthyroidism and should resolve as soon as it's within normal ranges. It's nothing to worry about though!


Is it safe to use a pill cutter and cut the tablet in half to give her? If so how does keeping her on 15mg for a couple more days (to get her T4 down) then putting her on 7.5mg until her next check up (about 3 weeks times).

Also do you have info regarding the surgery? I understand there is an element of risk and that it might not be successful. But in general is there a good success rate (meaning no more tablets)? Also what is it like price wise? We're a bit short of money at the minute so if its a good option for her we may have to save up. I looked around to get an idea of prices, one vet had £155 on their website price list, someone else said they were quoted £250! These both seem incredibly cheap to me, I was expecting upwards of £2000 for surgery!! :confused1:


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

I'd start the lower dose right away if I were you. It won't do any harm since it's always best to do this *very* gradually.

Prices vary from vet practice to practice and also depend on where you live. Yes with successful surgery no more medication is required. I can't give actual numbers with regard to success rates-mine had a bilteral thyroidectomy which was very successful-but there have been cases where it didn't actually work. Your vet would be the best person to discuss this with all things considered.

Hyperthyroidism in cats


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Casper went from a T4 of 86.7 to 19 in two weeks on half what the vet said to put him. 

He started being sick on the felimazole After two weeks. Still not sure if that is what caused the sickness. 

He hasn't been sick since yesterday evening after his pill. Not eaten a huge amount prob only half a pouch. Had a few kitten biscuits and I will offer hm some raw in a bit when it's defrosted. 

Jen


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

Ok will cut her down to half the dose then. Is it safe to chop a Vidalta pill in half and give it to her?


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> Casper went from a T4 of 86.7 to 19 in two weeks on half what the vet said to put him.
> 
> He started being sick on the felimazole After two weeks. Still joy sure if that is what caused the sickness.
> 
> Jen


Yes, Jen but you have to consider that he wasn't sick for the first two weeks which leads me to believe it was related to the actual dosage as opposed to the Felimazole per se ie Caspar tolerated the larger amount when his T4 was higher ( a lot of excess hormone ) and now it has reached the lower level of 19 ( normal range ) he no longer does because essentially he was being overdosed at this point! Gastric upsets are symptoms of overdose! The same applied to the Vidalta as well.....

Since the maintenance dose required from now on (to keep his T4 at the correct functioning level) would be much less than the initial one, he's unlikely to be ill on this lower one! As long as it's the correct one that is.....

.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

PeteJC21 said:


> Ok will cut her down to half the dose then. Is it safe to chop a Vidalta pill in half and give it to her?


Yes, but don't crush it!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Totally agree. I am thinking 1/4 vidalta a day like you said and see how that goes. Only picking the vidalta as it is once a day and two pills a day is too stressful for him and me. Do you think that would be about the correct amount? Going out tomorrow lunchtime to get a pill cutter and go from there. He seems alot more happy and relaxed now. 

Jen 

Have not given him any pills tonight, just ate a fair amount of raw food no problem and now fast asleep on his bed by the radiator. Still no sick.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, sounds about right! ( Roughly equates to 2.5 Felimazole )

Good luck with the cutting though!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thanks. I think I will need lots of luck. Will let you know how I get on tomorrow night. 

He has just asked for food so now on his second bowl of raw!! Sems alot more like normal Casper. 
Thank you again. You really are great. 
Jen.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello. I have given Casper 1/4 of vidalta in his tea so watch this space. !!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

And we have sick.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Oh no! This IS odd though, such a small dose! 

I'm not going to tell you to divide it into 1/8s next time! :lol:

Think you're better to stick with the Felimazole considering it's track record.

Hope he recovers soon. No constipation still?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Not pooped since during Sunday night. But didn't eat huge quanties yesterday but ate a bit more today but thrown it all up so prob not much in there to come out at the mo. Will be interesting to see what the vets say in the morning. 

With the felimazole the vet said it had to be given twice a day to be effective. Is this correct? If it is then there is no point in putting him back on it twice a day unless I can try cutting one of the 2.5mg in half and doing that. 

I really think he will prob have to have the operation. It's not fair on him all this sickness and he has def lost weight in the last week. 

Jen x


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

.Yes, I fully understand, poor guy! At least you've got some evidence for the vets tomorrow. It's obvious he doesn't tolerate the Vidalta even in minute amounts.

Yes, vets are right! Think I mentioned previously Felimazole is better every 12 hours as well.

Good luck tomorrow!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Well, Casper is booked in for the operation on Monday 1st March. 

Fingers and toes crossed all ok. 

Jen


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

moandben said:


> Well, Casper is booked in for the operation on Monday 1st March.
> 
> Fingers and toes crossed all ok.
> 
> Jen


Good luck with it!! What did the vet say about the op? Is there much risk to it? High success rate? I think we may be heading down the same route as you.. pebbles was sick again this morning, she's been on her vidalta since friday and has been sick twice, so not sure shes as bad as your boy and it may not be the vidalta causing it.

Pete


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

PeteJC21 said:


> Good luck with it!! What did the vet say about the op? Is there much risk to it? High success rate? I think we may be heading down the same route as you.. pebbles was sick again this morning, she's been on her vidalta since friday and has been sick twice, so not sure shes as bad as your boy and it may not be the vidalta causing it.
> 
> Pete


Hi Pete, The vet started saying she thinks we should consider the op and I just said we have and can we book him in.

Considering it is an operation done on older cats the success rate is quite high. 
We have tried pills and they agree with him so operation is our only option really. Keep an eye on the sickness, are you still giving half a pill ?

Vet just said try to get some weight back on him and let him be till Monday, no more pills.

Jen


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

She had her first half pill last night. Yes will keep an eye on her and see how she goes, she did eat last night after her tablet and didnt have any problems, as with most nights so hopefully she'll be ok. 

Keep us all updated with the op. Will they keep him in for a few days after to monitor him?

Pete


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Will do, He should be out same day as long as he is ok. They would rather he went home as soon as he is well enough to so as not to stress him any more than needed.

am off to the vets after work to pick up some Hills Critical Care food ( high fat ) to try and get some more weight back on him before he goes in. 
Also just bought him a water fountain to try and up the water intake. 

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> Well, Casper is booked in for the operation on Monday 1st March.
> 
> Fingers and toes crossed all ok.
> 
> Jen


It's good they are willing to do it. Did they check for that 'mass' they felt once?

You know in the US ( not not available here ) for cats who have gastric reactions to the drugs, they compound the medication into a transdermal gel and administer by rubbing on the ears! Very good results apparently! Always miles ahead of us over here in terms of medical and veterinary innovations and care!

I should imagine he'll start piling the weight on from now on!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thats a great idea, shame we are so far behind. 

I am waititng to hear back from the vets regarding the 'mass' to see what they want to do. 
One option was to wait till monday and if they can still feel it then have a look while he is under. 
Other option is have him back in tonight for a feel and another scan.

I'm thinking option 1 at the mo, don't see any point in stressing him further. Just want him to have the next 5 days at home chilling and eating if possible.

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

That sounds sensible! I doubt very much if they'll find anything then. Constipation looks far more likely.

Don't forget to stockpile some food now he's off the meds! His ravenous appetite is bound to return!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Just hope he is ok off the meds for a few more days.

Picture of him two weeks ago.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

He's lovely and looks quite big! I love big cats and my boys are like pumas!

Sorry I hate to put a spanner in the works here but normally vets won't do the operation until the thyroid levels have stabilised. ie in range and certainly much lower than at presenting stage. That's why all cats are always put on pre-on meds first for circa three weeks!

I would certainly discuss this with the vets before Monday. Perhaps they've forgotten about this aspect of it. See what they say anyway and take it from there. I reaslise he had a T4 of 19 but it will creep up again in the absence of meds.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

I did say that to the vet but she said they should still be within normal range as he was 19 last thursday and has had some pills since, but they havent stayed in him very long !!!

Should I question this further ?


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, being near the bottom end gives him some leeway and a week and a half isn't long. Otherwise they'd have to reconsider. 

It's impossible to say for sure and depends on how quickly it elevates again obviously but I suppose they can make some judgements on this from the size of the tumour in neck. Generally the more advanced it is the higher the T4 though not always.

However I would let them know he didn't manage to 'absorb' the last ones, just in case....and take it from there!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> Yes, being near the bottom end gives him some leeway and a week and a half isn't long. Otherwise they'd have to reconsider.
> 
> It's impossible to say for sure and depends on how quickly it elevates again obviously but I suppose they can make some judgements on this from the size of the tumour in neck. Generally the more advanced it is the higher the T4 though not always.
> 
> However I would let them know he didn't manage to 'absorb' the last ones, just in case....and take it from there!


Have just spoken to the vet, She doesn't want to see him till the operation which is Tuesday not Monday, i thought monday was the 1st March

She thinks his T4 should be ok and they will if needed give him something to slow his heart rate a little!!
She also said he will have a heart moniter on throughout the operation.
With regards to the Mass, she said she will wait and have a feel before the Operation on Tuesday. 
Only if it is bigger will they have a look when doing thyroids.

She has said to give him lots of food and spoil him to try and get some of the lost weight back on.

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

How is Casper today? Trust he's eating ( and retaining! ) well now?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> How is Casper today? Trust he's eating ( and retaining! ) well now?


And eliminating!


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

hobbs2004 said:


> And eliminating!


:lol: Well of course, I was just too polite as ask!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> :lol: Well of course, I was just too polite as ask!


But don't you know that you are then on the wrong forum hun - we like to talk poop :arf: :lol:


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Do you mean POOP !!!

In proper graphic detail ( no photo's sorry )

This morning, Casper had left me a little deposit in the litter tray of three little nuggets of poop. About the same size as 5p each, nothing major but hasn't really been eating much. 

Have been out this lunchtime and bought him some Natures menu which he tends to like,

But before I left for work this morning he had eaten at least half a can of Grau so hopefully larger nuggets when I get home from work!! 

He is slowly working out that no pills are hidden in his food. 

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

hobbs2004 said:


> And eliminating!





moandben said:


> Do you mean POOP !!!
> 
> In proper graphic detail ( no photo's sorry )
> 
> ...


No, sorry but we do require photos as an aid to greater analysis!!!

Still sounds a _little_ constipated to me (just something to watch but _not_ to worry about! ) so I'd add to his liquid intake if he's not a great drinker. Should help.

Hope he enjoys his Nature's Menu! I'm sure you're both relieved about no more pills! Off to do some pilling myself though mine are generally easy in this respect which I'm thankful for....


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Picked up some kitten loaf on the way home. He has ate half a tin.

And did a normal poop. I was so pleased. He now thinks I mad for telling him what a good boy he is about 100 times. He was very clever waiting for me to come home before he did it. 
Such a good man.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Never thought I would be so happy to see a normal poop!!

Jen


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Little update on the old man. He is doing well. Eating back to normal. And all poops back to normal and regular. 

Just got to get through Tuesday now. Xx


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Aw, that's good to hear! Don't worry, we will be sending loads of trusted PF vibes on tuesday


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> Little update on the old man. He is doing well. Eating back to normal. And all poops back to normal and regular.
> 
> Just got to get through Tuesday now. Xx


Good to hear Casper is back to normal. It's high time the drug companies developed some thyroid medication with less side effects....

The fact the vets are willing to do the operation is a good sign in that they believe he's healthy enough to withstand the procedure! They do take precautions with anaesthetics in older animals as well!

If it helps my oldest ( also 18 ) had a bilateral thyroidectomy ( though not at the same time! ) and although she was slightly younger I remember she recovered very quickly on both occasions! Do bear in mind as well Casper will have to have his calcium levels checked a few days after the op to ensure the parathyroid glands are still functioning well - they perform the important function of regulating calcium in the body and the vets will want to make sure they're still intact! That's routine really.

Good luck on Tuesday and let us know how he's doing!


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## BlessedbyJack (Feb 23, 2011)

Hi there,

I'm new to the forum and just been reading through the thread..

Just wanted to wish you and casper all the best for the vet visit tomorrow.

My Jack doesn't like going to the vet at all either, I use feliway spray around and inside the carrier a day or so before the visit to help calm him.

All the best hope it goes well,

x


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, indeed Casper ( and you! ) crossed my mind when replying to PP's post.

All the best for tomorrow and let us know how it goes!

I'll be thinking of you.


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

I have been following this thread closely but don't know anything about the condition (although I am learning thanks to the great advice you have been given ). Just wanted to let you know that fingers and paws are also crossed here for Casper tomorrow. And big hug to ((you)) too xx


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## Sadiemills (Feb 28, 2011)

Good luck to Casper tomorrow x


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you everyone for the good luck.

I dropped a very hungry Casper off at the vets at 6:30 this morning. 

Everything is crossed for him. 

Thank you once again for all the support. You lot are GREAT xxxx


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Everything crossed here for him to  x


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Dally Banjo said:


> Everything crossed here for him to  x


thank you, still waiting for vets to ring


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Casper has had his operation and has come round and is sat up in his cage.

So happy :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Jen xx


Ps. Ianthi - T4 was back up to 89 this morning..


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Sitting up in his cage! Fantastic news and so glad to hear it all went well! You must be sooo relieved.

A T4 of 89 - Yes, it has crept up again. Am trying to remember what it was initially since I hear a lot of results these days.

When is he coming home then?


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

:thumbup: Can you bring him home today or does he have to stay in for a calcium test?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah!!! Great news Jen. :thumbsup:


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## thelioncub (Feb 9, 2009)

Glad to hear Casper is doing well. We're still waiting to hear about our Lance. Waiting for that call is so gut-wrenching isn't it.
I'm really happy to hear your old boy is on the road to recovery. I can only imagine the relief.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> Sitting up in his cage! Fantastic news and so glad to hear it all went well! You must be sooo relieved.
> 
> A T4 of 89 - Yes, it has crept up again. Am trying to remember what it was initially since I hear a lot of results these days.
> 
> When is he coming home then?


86.7 at first test. Then down to 19. It was expected really.

Think he might be staying in tonight but coming home in the morning.

So happy...:thumbup::thumbup:


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Dally Banjo said:


> :thumbup: Can you bring him home today or does he have to stay in for a calcium test?


Prob in the morning. 
Only had one thyroid removed in the end so no blood calcium levels check.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

thelioncub said:


> Glad to hear Casper is doing well. We're still waiting to hear about our Lance. Waiting for that call is so gut-wrenching isn't it.
> I'm really happy to hear your old boy is on the road to recovery. I can only imagine the relief.


Thank you, Hope you get the happy call soon.


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> Prob in the morning.
> Only had one thyroid removed in the end so no blood calcium levels check.


This probably means the parathyroid glands have remained intact during the operation. Nevertheless they're probably keeping an eye on him as a precaution.

They would be insane to remove both ( though it's probable only one is affected at this point ) sides at once for fear of damage to these very important glands. Good vets are normally reluctant to do this for this reason.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> This probably means the parathyroid glands have remained intact during the operation. Nevertheless they're probably keeping an eye on him as a precaution.
> 
> They would be insane to remove both ( though it's probable only one is affected at this point ) sides at once for fear of damage to these very important glands. Good vets are normally reluctant to do this for this reason.


Just had the vets back on the phone, Parathyroid gland is intact.

The 'Mass' is no more. And....

He is staying the afternoon for fluid and fuss and we can pick him up at 7pm tonight. 

Jen

Back in on friday night just to check him over then again in three weeks for a blood test.

Jen x


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, that sounds about right!

Can't say I'm surprised about that 'mass' either!!! You can tell what my thoughts were considering l made no enquiries about it so far!


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## BlessedbyJack (Feb 23, 2011)

Thats great news I am so pleased  :thumbup::thumbup:


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## Kiwi (Nov 18, 2010)

Great news :thumbup: I am very happy for you xx

Now we have to focus our positive thoughts on Lance ...Fingers crossed xx


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Casper has had a good night, was a bit wobbly and alert last night. Slept well and ate well.

Asked for breakfast this morning.

Jen


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## Catisume (Mar 2, 2011)

Ianthi said:


> Ah! This is another thing about Vidalta! It has been marketed by Intervet? as a slow release medication but in practice this has been contentious! Cat owners have reported about the erratic nature of the drug which calls this into question.
> 
> Also considering it's efficacy is dependend upon being metabolised by the liver into methimazole, one has to appreciate that this ' processing' ability can vary from cat to cat!
> 
> ...


Hi I am new to this forum but was reading with interest what Ianthi was saying about Vidalta. My 10 year old girl started throwing up on Friday after being in the garden - figured the grass was cleaning out her system as normal but by Saturday everything was pouring out of her unfortunately couldn't get her treated at vet until yesterday (Tuesday 02/03/11) due to very limited funds - anyway they did bloods, put her on fluids and kept her overnight came back today to advise she has hyperthroidism and would need to take tablets for rest of her life - got her back today and they gave me a dose of 15mg Vidalta for 3 weeks which concerned me even before reading about it on this forum as it seems quite high to me - gave it to her this evening and will carefully monitor before going to bed and get hubby to check on her when he is up at 5am. - Reading all the details here I wished I asked for T4 results etc but she is supposed to go back in two days just for check up and will ask for reading. Because she has been a in very good health most of her life I would seriously consider the op as I really cant see myself and her tolerating been given these tablets everyday - particularly in summer she goes out and stays out for about 2 days - she doesn't go far just sleeps in the grass on the door mat so summer months will be a real problem for administration of these tablets - but will see how it goes.

Is there anything really specific I should ask vet? and secondly does anyone know a good vet in Romford?? - been with vets in Beckton for 10 years but they are all about money first pet after and its been turning me off for sometime so any personal recommendations would be welcome - This would also useful for second opinion on op as vets in Beckon admitted lack of experience of doing op - so even if it is an option they cant do it :frown:

Thanks


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Hello and welcome,

How is she doing on the Vidalta? Let us know the results when you get them and we can take it from there. Ten is young to be diagnosed with hyperthyroidism - cats are usually a few years older at least most of the cases we hear about are!

Sorry can't help with the vets but hopefully someone else will be able to recommend someone. Failing that you can always have a look on the RCVS website. It lists all the Accredited practices for each area. It's important to find a vet who is good with cats though!


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> Casper has had a good night, was a bit wobbly and alert last night. Slept well and ate well.
> 
> Asked for breakfast this morning.
> 
> Jen


How is Casper doing now? Bet you're really glad having no more medications. Hopefully the vets will refund you for the remaining Vidalta! His weight should be steadily increasing from now on as well.

Good luck with the vet visit and let us know how it goes. I'm sure he'll be fine!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello,

Casper is doing really well, back to normal. Eating really well. Will be interesting to see what he weighs tonight. 

He is still on pills, which is a right pain, but only till Sunday, a course of antibiotics as he had a bit of a mini dental while he was having the operation.

I have attached a couple of pictures of the scar as can&#8217;t believe how neat and small it is. 

So pleased with him, and really pleased we went for the operation now ( not that we really had any choice !) :thumbup:

Will update after vets tonight.

Jen x


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

try again 

Casper's scar


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Aaaah glad to hear he's doing well.

Yes, can remember those scars well! Good idea having the 'mini dental' as well. Be interested to hear how large the adenoma was and how straight forward it all was! ( Statistician side of me! )

Good luck tonight!


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## Dally Banjo (Oct 22, 2009)

Thats a very neat op, glad he's doing well


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> Aaaah glad to hear he's doing well.
> 
> Yes, can remember those scars well! Good idea having the 'mini dental' as well. Be interested to hear how large the adenoma was and how straight forward it all was! ( Statistician side of me! )
> 
> Good luck tonight!


The vet did say it 'quite large' but expected bigger. The other side had shrunk quite a bit. But i think they said it should return to normal.

We will get the biopsy results today too.

The mini dental was free :thumbup:

Aparently there were no probs and easy op.

Jen


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

Glad to hear Casper is doing so well! Pebbles is due in for her check up tonight, I'm at work til tomorrow evening so wife is taking her, she will ask about surgury options too.

Does Casper have to go back for blood tests every so often now? Like every 6 months?

Pete


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi Pete, Not as far as I know. We will have bloods done end of next week to make sure his T4 level is dropping then I expect it will just be a case of keeping an eye on him to make sure he doesn't drop weight or show any other signs.

It is amazing how quick they recover from things like this,

Good luck and let us know how pebbles gets on.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

I am really glad to hear that it all went well..partly selfishly glad because I am seriously considering having the op for Nellie. I am going to take her back to the vet who diagnosed her with Ht initially....first for a full check up including teeth...then to ask why he did not suggest the op at Dx, and if he would recommend it now.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

How old is Nellie ?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

All went well at the vets last night.

Vet pleased with how well he is doing. Weight only 4kgs so hoping he will start to put it back on now. He is not thin, just not quite as podgy as he once was. I think his ideal will be about 4.4kgs so not much.

We are back to vets next Friday for another check up and weight check.

Jen


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Just read through this whole thread. Really glad everything went alright. I was on tenterhooks!
You have such a handsome boy too  x


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Shrap said:


> Just read through this whole thread. Really glad everything went alright. I was on tenterhooks!
> You have such a handsome boy too  x


Thank you very much. He is a handsome man:thumbup::thumbup:

I think I am glad he didn't tolerate the meds, It means no more vet trips for him after next week if all well, If he had stayed on the meds I think they have to be blood tested quite often.

Jen


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## Catisume (Mar 2, 2011)

Ianthi said:


> Hello and welcome,
> 
> How is she doing on the Vidalta? Let us know the results when you get them and we can take it from there. Ten is young to be diagnosed with hyperthyroidism - cats are usually a few years older at least most of the cases we hear about are!
> 
> Sorry can't help with the vets but hopefully someone else will be able to recommend someone. Failing that you can always have a look on the RCVS website. It lists all the Accredited practices for each area. It's important to find a vet who is good with cats though!


Hi Ianthie

Thanks for coming back to me - blood results for Soutai - T4 107 - When I raised the issue of reducing the 15mg dosage t 10mg they admitted there was an error she was supposed to be on the 10mg!!!!:scared:

white blood cell count 4.2 range should be 6.0 - 15.00 - Any particular foods that can help her?

she was on 15mg vidalta for 2 days prior to check up and no throwing up or loss of appetite and she still drank water and pooped but was looking dazed at around 3/4pm (I gave her meds at 9pm).

Vet advised to give her 10mg every other day (will look and see how she goes with this dose and she will back for bloods on 23/02/11. She has been really keen on boiled chicken since she has been home so been given alot with regular cat food - weight at time of being ill 2.45kg weight after being home 3 days 2.95 kg so putting some weight on.

Let me know what you think


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## Catisume (Mar 2, 2011)

Ianthie - Not sure what is going on with my posts - posted twice reply to you and nothing is showing up -may I need post reply at end of thread?? maybe cose quoted you and replied but nothing showing up aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhh!

Will check and see if this shows up


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Catisume said:


> Hi Ianthie
> 
> Thanks for coming back to me - blood results for Soutai - T4 107 - When I raised the issue of reducing the 15mg dosage t 10mg they admitted there was an error she was supposed to be on the 10mg!!!!:scared:
> 
> ...


Hi there,

Sorry, I missed this before!

Yes, the 15mg would definitely have been too strong with a T4 of 107. It even stipulates the 10mg should be given for lower T4s as a starting dose in the Vidalta literature. Lethargy and inappetite are things to watch out for so let the vet know if you notice either. Not all cats exhibit these side effects though.

Regarding the low WBC it really depends on which white cell - there are five altogether. Some are indicative or inflammtion or infection even when low. I wonder is it's low lymphocytes?

I've never heard of Vidalta being prescribed every other day but considering the drug is slow release ( at least in theory! ) and is only effective for 24 hours not sure how well it would work if given every 48. Would be interested to hear what the vet has to say about this. You could also ask him about splitting the tablet and givng it daily. Either way it's better than too high a dose!

Good she's putting on weight! Keep us posted!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Update on Casper

He is doing well, not eating as much as I would like but enough. I think he still thinks there might be the odd pill hidden somewhere. 

We are back to the vets this Friday for another check up and I hope blood test as I would like to know what his T4 levels are.

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

moandben said:


> Update on Casper
> 
> He is doing well, not eating as much as I would like but enough. I* think he still thinks there might be the odd pill hidden somewhere. *We are back to the vets this Friday for another check up and I hope blood test as I would like to know what his T4 levels are.
> 
> Jen


Think you might have a point here! 

Don't forget though they tend to eat excessively with untreated hyperT - there are exceptions but a ravenous appetite is more common. This will slow down when the condition is controlled.

I trust he is gaining weight though in which case all sounds OK.

All the best for Friday and let us know how it goes.


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

He hadn't gained last Friday, but then the op was only on Tuesday and the week before he had been being sick everyday.
He always used to have a really good appetite so that never really changed with the Hypert.


I am hoping it it just the worry of pills lurking and will settle down now he isn't having any. 

Will be weighed on Friday so we will see !!


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

Glad to hear Casper is still doing well. Hopefully all will be ok on his checkup. Im outside the vets now with Pebbles waiting for them to open. Shes having her blood test again so will see what effect the Vidalta has had on her. She had a checkup appointment last friday and from what my wife was saying the vet here seems a bit hesitant to do any surgury. He was sayinng about how they might not be able to get to all of the affected gland or something to get rid of the bad bits and therefore surgury might not be a good option??

Pete


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, Pete what the vet has said is true! Sometimes the tissue has migrated to other areas in the boy though of course this isn't true in all instances. We had a case like this on here a few months ago.

The other thing to bear in mind is the competence level of the vet involved - this is quite delicate surgery and requires experience and skill. This _might_ be another reason the vet is hesitant!

How did Pebbles do on the Vidalta? Did you split the dose?


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Casper got the all clear at the vets last night. So no more vet trips for him. Vet really pleased with him. Just got to keep an eye on weight. Weighed the same as last week last night. 

Thank you so much for all the support and advice I have got, Will still update and some more pic's when he has got all his hair back..

Jen x


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Glad to hear vet was pleased with him. 

Did they do a bloodtest?


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## PeteJC21 (Feb 10, 2011)

Ianthi said:


> Yes, Pete what the vet has said is true! Sometimes the tissue has migrated to other areas in the boy though of course this isn't true in all instances. We had a case like this on here a few months ago.
> 
> The other thing to bear in mind is the competence level of the vet involved - this is quite delicate surgery and requires experience and skill. This _might_ be another reason the vet is hesitant!
> 
> How did Pebbles do on the Vidalta? Did you split the dose?


Well got the blood test results back (a call from the vet anyway). I did start to split the dose, but my wife got all upset and insisted we shouldn't, she wanted to give the 15mg as the vet prescribed, I didn't agree but as its her 'baby' thats what we did. Guess what... after blood test the T4 level is now *too low*!!

The vet is going to write a prescription for 10mg vidalta (prescription costing us £16!!) which again I think is too high. I did mention this to her and said I want to consider splitting the pills so she has half a 10mg pill a day. She said plitting wasn't a good idea but if 10mg was too much again then taking it every other day was an option as its slow release. Not sure I am confident with this vet now. I asked again about surgury and again she seemed to want to avoid the issue. Said that cats that respond well to the tablets shouldnt really have the surgury. Agree in some ways, but if its an option I'd rather have a go and get the problem sorted now like Casper so she's not dependant on pills for life.

Am looking at another vet and will call them soon for a chat. Current vet suggest 10mg vidalta for 3 weeks then another blood test to see if her thyroid/T4 levels are raised then go from there.

I am thinking, get prescription for 10mg vidalta, split it to 5mg a day for 3 weeks, take her to _new _vet for blood test and see what they suggest instead?


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Well, of course it's going to be too low considering the initial T4 of 114! 

Honestly, when will these vets ever learn! This means she was hypothyroid* and* and you're lucky her kidneys weren't affected and she didn't end up on a IV fluids at the vets!! She must have been lethargic somewhat but the effects would depend on how long this had been going on for. The HyperT board is littered with cases like this owing to a two high starting dose of these meds!!

I would hold off the medication for a few days-you want to avoid driving the T4 _any_ lower- and resume with 5mg daily (Yes, split the dose ) because obviously now the starting point is much lower. Going on what the vet is currently suggesting, stabilisation would become a long drawn out process involving so many more bloodtests than necessary with the added stress to the cat and additional expense! As I mentioned before in this thread a vet who enquired about splittng the tablets was told by the drug company that it was possible to do so. Crushing is a different matter entirely!

Judging by her response to the operation it sounds as if she doesn't feel confident in doing it and I agree it would be a good idea to consult at another practice. Of course with surgery you always have the added risk but even so!

I've included a link on low dose start. You might want to show it to your vet. CPD and all that!

Feline Hyperthyroidism - WSAVA 2003 Congress

In the article they are discussing methimazole and not carbimazole (Vidalta)


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Sorry to hear your having trouble Pete. 

Ianthi. Nope no blood test. !! Is that normal ? I assumed he would. I asked vet and he said no need !!

Jen


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Well! The lower heart rate would give some indication I guess.

Do keep an eye on him though especially with weight gain etc!


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Just for anyone interested....I called the RCV and was quoted £1100 ( plus vat ) for the Radioactive iodine treatment, with a 2 week confinement after treatment. It might sound a lot up front, but for younger cats I reckon it would work out well cost wise. ( Would insurance cover this? )


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Ianthi said:


> Well! The lower heart rate would give some indication I guess.
> 
> Do keep an eye on him though especially with weight gain etc!


I will do, I thought I would pop him in one evening in a couple of months just to weigh him on there scales. I can tell quite well with the bathroom scales.

He is def back to normal, spent a while out in the garden yesterday and seemed to really enjoy himself.

Jen


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello ...

Just a little update, Casper is doing really well, put a bit of weight on too.. he is now 4.1kgs. 

Eating well, and loving the nice weather in the garden. 
I am so glad he had the op and we are not fighting to give pills any longer. 

Thank you again for all the support and advice

Jen x


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Really good to hear about Casper! So how much weight gain in all then?

Yes, mine too have started to venture out for the first time in aaaaages! Like their owner hate the cold!


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## moandben (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello, 

Sorry I have been missing for a while, We are not suppossed to go on the internet at work any more so havent been on for a while.

Casper is doing great, He is just under 5kg now and looking soooo well, I am so glad he had the op. He is very active, very loving and very very happy.

Thanks again for all the support and help, It really really helped.

Thank you 

Jen x x x x


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

moandben said:


> Hello,
> 
> Sorry I have been missing for a while, We are not suppossed to go on the internet at work any more so havent been on for a while.
> 
> ...


So very pleased to hear that he is doing great! What a trooper!


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Great to hear Casper is doing soo well!

The weight gain is a sure sign of how successful the operation was. My oldest had a bilateral thyroidectomy and like Casper came on in leaps and bounds!


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