# Can a pregnancy scan be wrong?



## carlyd

Hi has anyone had there dog scanned and told no puppies and then gone on to have puppies?

I had my yorkie scanned last week on day 35 from the day of mating and was told no puppies but she's acting pregnant so I'm really confused. Her nipples have got bigger and have gone pink her belly at the sides looks wider. 
weeks 3 and 4 after mating she was hungry 24/7. But now she had slowed down and is picking at her food. 
She seems a lot lazier.
I was sure she was and her behaviour says she is but the scan said no.
The scan was a lady who came to the house. So not a vet. She only looked for a minute. My yorkie didn't like it and kept trying to escape so she had a quick scan over belly and said no. She then said let me check once more as she was fidgeting so much another quick check and no empty.

Could she be wrong or am I clutching at straws? 
She's now on day 40 and still has me convinced she is pregnant.


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## Siskin

I have heard that a no scan result have resulted in pups, but it is equally as likely that your girl is having a phantom pregnancy. Phantoms can make it look as if the dog is pregnant right up to the point of 'giving birth', but of course nothing happens. Was the lady that came to the house very experienced, someone who pregnancy scans sheep are usually very good for scanning dogs


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## Burrowzig

The scan look in the uterine body, not in in the uterine horns that go up under the ribs so it's possible pups could be missed. My bitch's scan showed 3 pups; she had 6. There's also a blood test available. 

Trouble is, false pregnancy can look very much like real pregnancy in both physical and behavioural changes! 

I'd go to the vet and let them have a look.


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## carlyd

Thank you for your replies. 

The lady has been scanning for a few years and was recommended to me by my dogs breeder. She uses her for her dogs and never had a wrong scan.

The cheeky monkey has had me totally convinced, I even changed her over to puppy good as I was that sure she was. 
She's ether hiding a couple or is having a phantom. 
I think the scan being wrong is me wishful thinking but I may pop along to the vets for my own sanity.

As the scan was exactly 35 days from mating she may not have ovulated then so could be less than 35 days.


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## Sled dog hotel

carlyd said:


> Hi has anyone had there dog scanned and told no puppies and then gone on to have puppies?
> 
> I had my yorkie scanned last week on day 35 from the day of mating and was told no puppies but she's acting pregnant so I'm really confused. Her nipples have got bigger and have gone pink her belly at the sides looks wider.
> weeks 3 and 4 after mating she was hungry 24/7. But now she had slowed down and is picking at her food.
> She seems a lot lazier.
> I was sure she was and her behaviour says she is but the scan said no.
> The scan was a lady who came to the house. So not a vet. She only looked for a minute. My yorkie didn't like it and kept trying to escape so she had a quick scan over belly and said no. She then said let me check once more as she was fidgeting so much another quick check and no empty.
> 
> Could she be wrong or am I clutching at straws?
> She's now on day 40 and still has me convinced she is pregnant.


A phantom pregnancy can show all the signs of a real pregnancy, increased appetite, weight gain, swollen enlarged nipples, some will even go on to produce actual milk, they will also often become clingy, start to collect up inanimate objects often toys and carry them around and treat them like babies, some will start to nest too, so its therefore hard to say if it is a phantom or a real pregnancy.

It has been known although not a common every day occurance for pups to be missed on a scan, often if there is only one or so and if they are carried higher up in the rib cage.

There is a blood test that can be done called a relaxin pregnancy test. You cant use progesterone to detect canine pregnancy as it is there during a season and for a goodwhile after pregnant or not, but relaxin is unique to pregnancy so if that's there then the test is positive, that may be an option to tell for sure. I would though at the least pop her along to the vets and get her checked out.


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## carlyd

Do you think I should go to the vets soon or should I wait until next week so if she is pregnant she is further along.

When I run my hands along her body she has a bump just below ribs!
I feel like I'm going slightly mad lol.

I guess if the scan says no it's a no but she defiantly looks it.


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## Sled dog hotel

carlyd said:


> Do you think I should go to the vets soon or should I wait until next week so if she is pregnant she is further along.
> 
> When I run my hands along her body she has a bump just below ribs!
> I feel like I'm going slightly mad lol.
> 
> I guess if the scan says no it's a no but she defiantly looks it.


I would pop her along and get her checked over. If she is then you will need to start preparing especially if you haven't got a whelping kit etc yet. It certainly would probably be worth the consultation charge instead of sitting driving yourself mad. I have sometimes spent a consultation charge to be told its nothing to worry about, but sometimes you cant put a price on peace of mind and your sanity.


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## carlyd

Thank you. You are right, I will ring the vets and get them to see her. It's really strange to be convinced that she's pregnant and then to be told no. I really feel like the scan was wrong, but if a phantom they have all the same symptoms it's most likely that.
I will call vets and hopefully they will do a test to find out for sure. If she's not then she's not but wondering if the scan is wrong is worse than if I had not had the scan done at all. I don't want to treat her like she's not if she is.

Will the relaxin blood test work even if there's only one pup?


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## Sled dog hotel

carlyd said:


> Thank you. You are right, I will ring the vets and get them to see her. It's really strange to be convinced that she's pregnant and then to be told no. I really feel like the scan was wrong, but if a phantom they have all the same symptoms it's most likely that.
> I will call vets and hopefully they will do a test to find out for sure. If she's not then she's not but wondering if the scan is wrong is worse than if I had not had the scan done at all. I don't want to treat her like she's not if she is.
> 
> Will the relaxin blood test work even if there's only one pup?


Its unique to pregnancy so I would assume so.. After conception it is supposed to be detectable between 21/28 days after. Although one lab that does the test I know of say its best to take the blood sample on day 28 after mating to allow for differences in conception dates. They say as relaxin is unique to pregnancy then its an accurate tests. I haven't a clue how much the test is you would have to as your vet to check.


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## Connie4dogs

I was very fortunate when my yorkie girl was pregnant in that my hubby had a portable ultrasound scanner ( he is an orthopaedic surgeon) I was able to scan Lou Lou as much as I wanted and she seemed to totally relax and enjoy it. I originally thought she may have had 3 sacs, and my vet thought so too by palpation. However I was only able to see 1 and as she drew nearer to her due date it was really exciting to see the heart beating.I know that some pups can be hidden up in the dam's ribs . This is a pic of one of the scans I did.


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## carlyd

Hi @Connie4dogs did u find the pup in the ribs easily?

The lady scanned with my yorkie standing up, she didn't like it and was struggling to escape the whole time. She moved around on her belly and u could just see a empty hole. She then moved up and said that's her bowels we are to far up now and moved back down. 
It was very quick but then I guess she knows wat she's looking for,

Today her nipples nearest her privates are swollen more and saggy around nipple like they are filling with milk.


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## Connie4dogs

the scan above is of the pup's ribs....if there is any pups behind the dam's ribs then an ultrasound wont see them as it can't see through bone. My girl only had the 1 pup , but earlier on in the pregnancy there were about 3 sacs, I guess that the other 2 were reabsorbed at some point...


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## Sled dog hotel

carlyd said:


> Hi @Connie4dogs did u find the pup in the ribs easily?
> 
> The lady scanned with my yorkie standing up, she didn't like it and was struggling to escape the whole time. She moved around on her belly and u could just see a empty hole. She then moved up and said that's her bowels we are to far up now and moved back down.
> It was very quick but then I guess she knows wat she's looking for,
> 
> Today her nipples nearest her privates are swollen more and saggy around nipple like they are filling with milk.


Again they produce milk in phantom pregnancies so its not a guarantee. The rear teats are usually the most milk rich of the teats too.


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## carlyd

Connie4dogs said:


> the scan above is of the pup's ribs....if there is any pups behind the dam's ribs then an ultrasound wont see them as it can't see through bone. My girl only had the 1 pup , but earlier on in the pregnancy there were about 3 sacs, I guess that the other 2 were reabsorbed at some point...


Thank you. So I may not be totally crackers there may be a sneaky one hiding in there.

I wish I had a scanner lol


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## carlyd

Th


Sled dog hotel said:


> Again they produce milk in phantom pregnancies so its not a guarantee. The rear teats are usually the most milk rich of the teats too.


Thank you. 
I have rang vets and She can't see her vet until next wk and I don't want to see anyone else as they are useless, I only like the one vet at the practise.
I will ask for the blood test as I'm guessing another scan won't make me feel any better if there's still none there. At least the blood test we will know for sure. : )


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## Sled dog hotel

carlyd said:


> Th
> 
> Thank you.
> I have rang vets and She can't see her vet until next wk and I don't want to see anyone else as they are useless, I only like the one vet at the practise.
> I will ask for the blood test as I'm guessing another scan won't make me feel any better if there's still none there. At least the blood test we will know for sure. : )


Its something that you can discuss with the vet anyway about doing. Its just a shame that your vet wont be available until next week and you have to wait it must be driving you mad.
As said I have heard of dogs being scanned and told no and ended up having at least one singleton pup, and that they can be carried high up under the ribs so missed. Trouble is the phantoms will give all
the symptoms of a real pregnancy or can too, so best we can do on here is give you possibilities that might be going on unfortunately not what is. Please keep us updated whats going on.


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## Connie4dogs

I personally also think that trying to scan a dog that is struggling etc is hopeless....as I said before my dog just lay back and was very co operative to the point she looked forward to the many scans I did. I must admit that Lou Lou did not have much in external signs and she is a big girl for a yorkie. it would be a lovely surprise if one or two were hiding...I remember when Lou Lou went into labour and her pup was born....and I thought to myself well now I ready for the next one ....wrong....no more....The pup was a real good weight for a yorkie ...just over 6.6 ozs...You must be on tender hooks wondering if she is pregnant....and at the same time trying not to get too excited in case its a phantom pregnancy.


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## carlyd

Thank you both of you. 
Yes I am stressing myself out about it. I look at her belly and think yes she's got be pregnant but then I think the scan said no, surly she couldn't be wrong! She does scans everyday and didn't seem doubtful at all she was like no 100% no pups sorry. Lol I'm hoping there are hidden pups or pup but I feel like there's probably not : (


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## Sled dog hotel

carlyd said:


> Thank you both of you.
> Yes I am stressing myself out about it. I look at her belly and think yes she's got be pregnant but then I think the scan said no, surly she couldn't be wrong! She does scans everyday and didn't seem doubtful at all she was like no 100% no pups sorry. Lol I'm hoping there are hidden pups or pup but I feel like there's probably not : (


Are there no other vets that are near you and maybe who have someone at the practice that specialises in reproduction? I understand if you have a vet though that you know and trust and are comfortable in and would rather wait to see if it has to come down to it.


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## Rafa

Was she mated just the once and was there a tie? What day(s) of her season was she mated on?

How old is your bitch and how old is the stud dog?


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## carlyd

Sweety said:


> Was she mated just the once and was there a tie? What day(s) of her season was she mated on?
> 
> How old is your bitch and how old is the stud dog?


Hi, no she was mated twice she went to stud on days 12 and 13 they tied both times, first time 10 mins second time 15 mins.

She's is 3 this is her first litter, stud is 5 and proven.


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## carlyd

Sled dog hotel said:


> Are there no other vets that are near you and maybe who have someone at the practice that specialises in reproduction? I understand if you have a vet though that you know and trust and are comfortable in and would rather wait to see if it has to come down to it.


Whenever I see a different vet I always wish I had waited. 
She's booked In for next Tuesday. 
I will have to try and not think about in untill then easier said than done lol


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## rocco33

carlyd said:


> Hi, no she was mated twice she went to stud on days 12 and 13 they tied both times, first time 10 mins second time 15 mins.
> 
> She's is 3 this is her first litter, stud is 5 and proven.


Do you know when she actually ovulated? ie.did you have her progesterone tested?


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## carlyd

rocco33 said:


> Do you know when she actually ovulated? ie.did you have her progesterone tested?


No I don't. We have been counting day 1 from the second mating. 
The scan was on day 35.


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## carlyd

Hi guys just a quick update.
Lolas still showing all the signs of being pregnant, her nipples are even larger and pinker and the skin under nipples is very swollen/saggy.

We have been to the vets today, she had a feel and said she thinks she can feel pups and in her opinion she would say she is pregnant!!
She said the best way to find out is have an x ray but not until day 55 : (.

So now I'm still not sure if she is or not.
I wish I had never had scan done as I would have thought she was pregnant by her nipples and behaviour changes but the scan made me think no and now vets saying she thinks yes. 
The vet said the scans are often wrong, the scan can be done to early so pups are to small to see, or pups are hiding higher up. 

So buy the time I get a answer she will be nearly ready to deliver!! #sigh


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## Siskin

Oh my goodness, no further forward, how frustrating. Can another scan be done,surely they would be more visible now?


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## Sled dog hotel

carlyd said:


> Hi guys just a quick update.
> Lolas still showing all the signs of being pregnant, her nipples are even larger and pinker and the skin under nipples is very swollen/saggy.
> 
> We have been to the vets today, she had a feel and said she thinks she can feel pups and in her opinion she would say she is pregnant!!
> She said the best way to find out is have an x ray but not until day 55 : (.
> 
> So now I'm still not sure if she is or not.
> I wish I had never had scan done as I would have thought she was pregnant by her nipples and behaviour changes but the scan made me think no and now vets saying she thinks yes.
> The vet said the scans are often wrong, the scan can be done to early so pups are to small to see, or pups are hiding higher up.
> 
> So buy the time I get a answer she will be nearly ready to deliver!! #sigh


Its looking more that she might be then not then, best to be prepared I suppose as much as you can.


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## carlyd

Yes very frustrating. I wanted a scan in the first place for peace of mind so that if she was pregnant I could be completely prepared or if not pregnant then that's the end of it but being left in limbo is driving me nuts.

I have phoned the lady that scanned her and she said it's very unlikely she's pregnant if the scan showed no puppy's but she would be happy to come again and scan her but I will need to pay full price again! 

So I was thinking shes most likely having a phantom then, if it's very unlikely for scan to be wrong.

Where as the vet said scans are often wrong!! So I'm totally confused.

Vet seemed surprised I was even doubting she's pregnant. She said she has all the signs u would expect at this stage.


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## Siskin

The trouble is that many vets are not experts on breeding dogs. They have a good working knowledge and th training does take in dog pregnancy and birth, but not in the detail that many experienced breeders have for instance. Do you have a mentor to help you and give advice for when the puppies do come or how about your dogs breeder, would they help and have a look at your dog?


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## carlyd

Siskin said:


> The trouble is that many vets are not experts on breeding dogs. They have a good working knowledge and th training does take in dog pregnancy and birth, but not in the detail that many experienced breeders have for instance. Do you have a mentor to help you and give advice for when the puppies do come or how about your dogs breeder, would they help and have a look at your dog?


Yes my mentor is the stud dogs owner. She thinks she has absorbed the puppy's. She said if scan said no then most likely a no. If she still showing signs of pregnancy then she most likely was in pup but has lost them.
I have sent her pictures of Lola and she said she does look like she's in pup from the nipples but if she's absorbed them she will look like she's still carrying pups. : (

She has suggested another scan.


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## Siskin

Oh dear,the uncertainty must be awful for you.


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## carlyd

Siskin said:


> Oh dear,the uncertainty must be awful for you.


It is very frustrating and stressful not knowing. By the time we find out she will be ether be about to pop or they will say no puppy's after all and we will be all prepared which will then be disappointing : /


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## Burrowzig

What 'day' are you on now? You should be able to feel or see the puppies moving at about the same time as the X-ray was suggested. So I'd not bother with the X-ray (wouldn't want to put her through a GA or sedative unless really necessary); just get a large cardboard box for whelping (there should be plenty available this time of year), have plenty of bedding and towels ready. Tub of Lactol just in case (ideally from a shop that would take it back if no pups appear) - your mentor may be able to lend or provide other equipment.


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## carlyd

Burrowzig said:


> What 'day' are you on now? You should be able to feel or see the puppies moving at about the same time as the X-ray was suggested. So I'd not bother with the X-ray (wouldn't want to put her through a GA or sedative unless really necessary); just get a large cardboard box for whelping (there should be plenty available this time of year), have plenty of bedding and towels ready. Tub of Lactol just in case (ideally from a shop that would take it back if no pups appear) - your mentor may be able to lend or provide other equipment.


She's day 46 today from the last mating.
I was actually thinking exactly what u have just said. I may aswell just wait and see if pups arrive rather than put her throughanother vet visit and an x ray.
I will get prepared as if she is pregnant. Just hope I'm not sat there for days like a crazy lady waiting for puppy's to arrive that are not there lol


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## rocco33

carlyd said:


> Yes very frustrating. *I wanted a scan in the first place for peace of mind so that if she was pregnant I could be completely prepared or if not pregnant then that's the end of it *but being left in limbo is driving me nuts.
> 
> I have phoned the lady that scanned her and she said it's very unlikely she's pregnant if the scan showed no puppy's but she would be happy to come again and scan her but I will need to pay full price again!
> 
> So I was thinking shes most likely having a phantom then, if it's very unlikely for scan to be wrong.
> 
> Where as the vet said scans are often wrong!! So I'm totally confused.
> 
> Vet seemed surprised I was even doubting she's pregnant. She said she has all the signs u would expect at this stage.


The problem is that even if the scan had said she was in pup then she still could have absorbed them and no longer be carrying. You need to realise that this is nothing like a human pregnancy. A confirmation of pregnancy does not mean a litter will be carried to term.

The skill of the scanner can play a part, however, it is unlikely an experienced scanner would miss.

The fact that you do not know when she ovulated does probably make the likelihood of her being pregnant yes. It's a fairly small window of time when the eggs are released and ripened ready for fertilisation. Many bitches will mate outside their 'ready' time.


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## rocco33

carlyd said:


> She's day 46 today from the last mating.
> I was actually thinking exactly what u have just said. I may aswell just wait and see if pups arrive rather than put her throughanother vet visit and an x ray.
> I will get prepared as if she is pregnant. Just hope I'm not sat there for days like a crazy lady waiting for puppy's to arrive that are not there lol


I don't see why you should put her through an xray. A scan should be able to tell even in late pregnancy.


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## carlyd

Yes I agree, I think the vets like to make as much as they can out of it.I did suggest I get another private scan (as cheaper than vets) but vet said a x ray would give a 100% answer rather than waisting more money on scans that may be inaccurate. 

Yes my breeding mentor said that she has had a few scans to confirm litters and for puppies then to be absorbed. I was prepared for that and I was prepared for the scan to say no but I was not prepared for a no and then for her to start looking pregnant and then for the vet to say she thinks she could feel something but not 100% but in her opinion she would say pregnant. I have no idea if she is pregnant or not now : (


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## carlyd

Well Lola's current update is I still have no idea! Lol.
She hasn't got any fatter I don't think than last week. Should she be fatter by now do u think? She is 7 weeks now from mating.

She has been eating a lot lately but last 2 days has lost her appetite and not touched her food since yesterday morning. 
Her nipples are still growing and getting darker. She's very irritable up and down alot doesn't keep still for long.


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## carlyd

Well we have another scanned booked for Thursday am. Lola is defiantly looking bigger at the sides. 
No puppies moving yet tho so I'm going to go with another scan as I have no idea if I should start getting prepared or not. I don't want to be waiting for her to go in to labour if she's empty.


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## Burrowzig

I'd expect to feel pups moving by now, and see the movement too if the mum's hair is short enough. Wouldn't they be due on Friday?


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## carlyd

Yes day 63 from mating is this Friday. But if she is pregnant I'm guessing she ovulated later than that, as scan picked nothing up on day 35 from mating.
That's why I want the scan for my own sanity. Scan said no then vet said she's thinks she is pregnant buy feeling her tummy. 
She had got bigger and nipples huge and saggy. But no movement. But my breeding mentor said she doesn't always feel pups moving depending on size of litter. 

Today she keeps digging in her bed and taking the bottom of it out then getting in it. 

I really am so unsure if she is or not.


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## Rafa

You really should count 63 days from the first mating, not the second.

For what it's worth, I never saw pups moving in any of my pregnant bitches. They were a fairly small breed though and I don't know whether that makes a difference.

Is she losing the hair around her nipples?


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## carlyd

Well she's shivering a lot today and not eating. I have called vets and they have no appts today so I'm waiting for a call back.


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## carlyd

She's just had clear discharge coming out too. Like egg whites sorry tmi


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## Sled dog hotel

They can nest when a phantom but with all the signs together going off food which they often do, the amount and type of nesting, if she is agitated, and now what sounds like it could be the mucus plug, if she isn't whelping then she seems to be doing an outstanding impersonation of it.


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## carlyd

Update.. We have been to the vets this morning, she's had a scan and there are 2 pups in there : ) 
I'm so pleased to finally have an answer and now know I'm not completely mad. She has had every pregnancy symptom going. 
The vet said to keep them posted as it's a small litter she may need a c section. 
She seems ok today, last night she had more discharge coming out and this morning she has been sick. 
I think it will be soon so won't be leaving her side. 
Thanks for everyone's comments and help on here : )


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## SusieRainbow

So pleased you've got an answer, little madam kept you guessing!Looking forward to more news and photos soon.


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## Catharinem

Won't be long now, my girl was sick the day of whelping. Hope all goes well.


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## Sled dog hotel

carlyd said:


> Update.. We have been to the vets this morning, she's had a scan and there are 2 pups in there : )
> I'm so pleased to finally have an answer and now know I'm not completely mad. She has had every pregnancy symptom going.
> The vet said to keep them posted as it's a small litter she may need a c section.
> She seems ok today, last night she had more discharge coming out and this morning she has been sick.
> I think it will be soon so won't be leaving her side.
> Thanks for everyone's comments and help on here : )


Finally a definite answer what a relief.!! Hope everything processes well. Look forward to update.


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## carlyd

Thank you everyone. I wish I had not had the first scan as I would of thought she was pregnant and treated her pregnant since about week 5 but with a negative scan I felt like I was going crazy! 
Lesson learnt.


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## Sled dog hotel

carlyd said:


> Thank you everyone. I wish I had not had the first scan as I would of thought she was pregnant and treated her pregnant since about week 5 but with a negative scan I felt like I was going crazy!
> Lesson learnt.


As I mentioned I have heard of it before. I remember my friend who used to breed telling me that ones can get missed on a scan that are higher up and hidden in the ribs.
She hasn't had a negative scan but has ended up with more pups then the scan showed on more then one occasion. My friend went into everything before attempting breeding even did a dog breeding and genetics diploma. That's what seriously worries me not about yours but some of the posts we get where people don't go into anything just mate the dogs, then we get posts at the last minute asking if pups could be coming and just assume everything will then go completely straight forward.
There has been some very sad stories and posts because people just think its all simple and because they are dogs will naturally and easily give birth.

There was a post ages ago similar to yours, think it was a large breed, where I think it may have been a friend of the poster, whos dog had been given a negative scan
so the owner therefore thought non pregnant. Then the dog had suddenly showed signs of what looked like possible labour so the friend had posted could it be. Turned out that dog was too and produced one singleton pup. So well done for following your instincts and questioning everything along the way and not letting it go. Its certainly paid off for you and your girl.


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## Siskin

How amazing. Do hope it all goes well. Do let us know, and the very best of luck


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## Burrowzig

So it may be tomorrow! Good luck, hope you don't need a C-section.


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## Burrowzig

Is there any news?


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## Burrowzig

Update please? Surely the pups are here now.


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## Alib

carlyd said:


> Yes day 63 from mating is this Friday. But if she is pregnant I'm guessing she ovulated later than that, as scan picked nothing up on day 35 from mating.
> That's why I want the scan for my own sanity. Scan said no then vet said she's thinks she is pregnant buy feeling her tummy.
> She had got bigger and nipples huge and saggy. But no movement. But my breeding mentor said she doesn't always feel pups moving depending on size of litter.
> 
> Today she keeps digging in her bed and taking the bottom of it out then getting in it.
> 
> I really am so unsure if she is or not.


Hello

I have just read all your posts and I'm in same boat now. My Mollie is a yorkie and 3 yr old 
It is 34 days since she was 1st mated and was on day 8/9 of her cycle. Mated next day also. Both times tied for about 10 mins. Showing signs but scan today only show a very small sack of fluid. Scanner told me to come back in 5-6 days to see if any difference but told me they may be up behind ribs. It's doing my head in. What would u advise


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## Burrowzig

Alib said:


> Hello
> 
> I have just read all your posts and I'm in same boat now. My Mollie is a yorkie and 3 yr old
> It is 34 days since she was 1st mated and was on day 8/9 of her cycle. Mated next day also. Both times tied for about 10 mins. Showing signs but scan today only show a very small sack of fluid. Scanner told me to come back in 5-6 days to see if any difference but told me they may be up behind ribs. It's doing my head in. What would u advise


To start with, it's usually better to start a new thread than revive an old one! 
But you just have to hold on, however much you want firm answers. Have another scan in a few days, and/or get the blood test done which should be definitive.


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