# Rat Intro Gone Bad



## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi everyone, I'm really scared as I have woken up this morning after putting all four of my girls into the explorer and Smudge (the dominant female) has got blood all over her neck. 

I managed to clean it up a bit and now I am at work worrying whether she will be OK. I have my mum monitoring her ready to go to the vets if she gets any worse.

Will she be OK? And what do I do now? They seemed to be getting along really well


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## RattyCake (May 18, 2012)

Maybe you should put a divider in the cage or two cages against each other. It sounded like you introduced them way too suddenlly. Not sure if they'll ever get along now though...I hope your girl is okay


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

RattyCake said:


> Maybe you should put a divider in the cage or two cages against each other. It sounded like you introduced them way too suddenlly. Not sure if they'll ever get along now though...I hope your girl is okay


I didn't introduce them too suddenly I have been going through days of the intro process and have had no problems. They were sharing hammocks etc in the smaller cage so I thought it would be time to put them into a bare big cage. Now I feel even worse!


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## RattyCake (May 18, 2012)

Aww don't panic! It just sounded as if you plonked them all together before you went to bed! This doesn't sound like your fault at all. I bet anyone would have done the same in your position. Try to keep them separate and if you do take them to the vets, ask for advice. Don't blame yourself, okay?


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

My new girls are just really skittish and seem to be relaxed when they don't know I'm there but as soon as they know I'm there they will hide. I don't even know which one bit her as there wasn't any blood on the others!

Binky (her sister) was so worried bless her. I really don't know what to do about reintroducing them as I don't want it to happen again


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

It's definetely blood? Not porphyrin? Can you see cuts on any of them?


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't really know what porphyrin looks like but her fur was like wet and I'm pretty sure I saw a cut but it might have dried up overnight.

Just googled it and it is definitely blood.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I used to think that if blood was drawn then you should seperate, but recently when I looked into it with Georges many intro attempts, I was told by a few people that as long as it isnt a serious injury that you shouldnt worry too much, if you have two potential alphas in the cage then you will have scraps till they sort out the pecking order. Have you seen any serious fighting? Rats do heal really quickly and unless its big or deep I would give her a few days to heal it on her own, just watch out for possible infection or an abcess wich can happen with bites.


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## LynseyB (Jan 30, 2012)

Try not to worry too much. Little nicks aren't rare during an intro. She could have been having a little scuffle and cut herself on something or it may have been one of the babies being defensive. How do they seem to you when they're together?

DO NOT blame yourself. I think it's nonsense to suggest they may never get on now. That's getting way ahead as this seems like only a minor set back to me.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

My mums just checked on her and apparently she's still bleeding because she's scratching herself. Should i take her to the vet?


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

Got her booked in at the vets for 5 50. Apparently my mum says its just a small cut and its only because she's scratching it that it won't heal. Plus she has white fur so I'm hoping that it's not as bad as it looks.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Is it worse than this?









I didnt take this rat to the vets and it healed within a couple of weeks, it was pretty deep but I had a rat expert with me when it happened and she told me not to panic, if I had been on my own I would have rushed him to the vets though.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

chrisd said:


> My mums just checked on her and apparently she's still bleeding because she's scratching herself. Should i take her to the vet?


Tbh unless she is bleeding badly then I wouldnt worry about a vet seeing it. It's probably just oozing because she's catching it with her claws. Its going to show up worse on white fur too. 
Rats skin is quite thin and it does tear easily, but it also heals fast too.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't think the actual cut is that bad but it looks a lot worse as all her fur around the wound has gone red. It's only around the wound and on her paws from scratching but I'm still going to get her checked over just incase. I might need one of those fancy rat domes that Malteys rat had.

But what can I do about putting the new girls in with them again? I really don't want my older girls getting hurt. I think I'm so shocked because if anything I expected it to be the little ones to get bitten. It really has upset me seeing my poor girl like this  I am hoping that I won't lose her. She is climbing and acting like normal - is that a good sign?


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## RattyCake (May 18, 2012)

Oh geez TDH, how did that happen?!

Animals are usually quite tough with injuries like scratches and bites. My old dog once lashed out at a dog half her size over a bone and she was torn up pretty bad. My dog was a staffy and the other was a westie. It was nobody's fault. My staff was in season at the time and we couldn't afford to get her snipped. My dad "got rid of her" eventually...No idea what he did though. Said he was going to get her put down, but the vet took pity on her and got her rehomed. Would a vet do that? I don't know...

Anyway, that's off topic. Point is, if a 14 year old westie can recover from a torn up face, I'm sure a rat can pull through a similar ordeal but on a smaller scale


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## Guest (May 28, 2012)

chrisd said:


> I don't think the actual cut is that bad but it looks a lot worse as all her fur around the wound has gone red. It's only around the wound and on her paws from scratching but I'm still going to get her checked over just incase. I might need one of those fancy rat domes that Malteys rat had.
> 
> But what can I do about putting the new girls in with them again? I really don't want my older girls getting hurt. I think I'm so shocked because if anything I expected it to be the little ones to get bitten. It really has upset me seeing my poor girl like this  I am hoping that I won't lose her. She is climbing and acting like normal - is that a good sign?


Are the girls still together or have they been split again?


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

If it isnt as bad as that then I wouldnt worry too much, Flash got hurt by George when he was an old boy it was about the same as the rat in the picture and he healed beautifully. As far as intros go, if youve already seperated them then you could give her a couple of days to recover and try again, or if you havent seperated them I would leave them together as they are more likely to have sorted it out already.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

chrisd said:


> I don't think the actual cut is that bad but it looks a lot worse as all her fur around the wound has gone red. It's only around the wound and on her paws from scratching but I'm still going to get her checked over just incase. I might need one of those fancy rat domes that Malteys rat had.
> 
> But what can I do about putting the new girls in with them again? I really don't want my older girls getting hurt. I think I'm so shocked because if anything I expected it to be the little ones to get bitten. It really has upset me seeing my poor girl like this  I am hoping that I won't lose her. She is climbing and acting like normal - is that a good sign?


Rats squabble, its a fact and a normal part of owning rats. Its how they determine who is the boss , whether we like it or not lol.

I've got 3 brothers living together and even though I've seen no blood they still have their pinning down and squeaking sessions and have recently started the boxing and staring routines which are fascinating to watch.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Are the girls still together or have they been split again?


I've split them up as I didn't want to risk another fight.


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## Guest (May 28, 2012)

chrisd said:


> I've split them up as I didn't want to risk another fight.


I would leave them a couple of days to get over it all and then start from scratch, maybe wait a couple of days before adding hammocks and toys just to be sure it isn't territorial


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> I would leave them a couple of days to get over it all and then start from scratch, maybe wait a couple of days before adding hammocks and toys just to be sure it isn't territorial


Should I go all the way back to the bath tub stage? Or just being in the same cage. She is a bit of a bully so one of the little rats has probably just lashed out in terror. They're crazy these little ratties! Sprite won't stop on the wheel. When I went to bed last night up until this morning she was on the wheel haha. At least one of them uses it!


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

chrisd said:


> Should I go all the way back to the bath tub stage? Or just being in the same cage. She is a bit of a bully so one of the little rats has probably just lashed out in terror. They're crazy these little ratties! Sprite won't stop on the wheel. When I went to bed last night up until this morning she was on the wheel haha. At least one of them uses it!


Don't want to cause you any more worry, but have you checked the cage all over to make sure there is nothing she could have caught herself on, which is easily done.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

Lavenderb said:


> Don't want to cause you any more worry, but have you checked the cage all over to make sure there is nothing she could have caught herself on, which is easily done.


No but I will check when I get home! They have been living in it for a while now though so it does seem probable that it was one of the new girls.


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## Guest (May 28, 2012)

chrisd said:


> Should I go all the way back to the bath tub stage? Or just being in the same cage. She is a bit of a bully so one of the little rats has probably just lashed out in terror. They're crazy these little ratties! Sprite won't stop on the wheel. When I went to bed last night up until this morning she was on the wheel haha. At least one of them uses it!


If it was me I would  How long have they been together? It could be possible that it was the wheel that kicked off the fight.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

ive had rats with worse cuts than that. i did take them to the vets and the one on the shoulder he left and it healed fully within 3 days, i just had to check to see if it got infected. and the second was on his side so the vet stappled it as he was a big rat. again it healed within 3 days. ive also had a 6 week old boy with one on his neck and he was fine too he took 4 days to heal. they do bleed alot but they heal very quickly


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> If it was me I would  How long have they been together? It could be possible that it was the wheel that kicked off the fight.


I did think that the wheel might annoy the older ones. But then I expected to see blood around one of their mouths. I saw sprite who had none as she is white and couldn't get a very good look at Kola but her nose was pink not red.

They met on Thursday and were in the cage on that night. I separated them for the night as it was getting rowdy as they were waking up a bit. I then put them back in the cage (furet xl btw) and they seemed happy to see eachother and were all snuggled in the corner in a rat pile. Then on Friday afternoon I put a Sputnik in and Binky and Sprite were sharing it. Then I put a hammock in on Saturday and Smudge, Kola and Sprite were all sleeping it the hammock. Everything was going so well. Even at the bath tub stage they barely did anything just ended up snuggling together. Then I put them in the explorer with the same hammock and sputnik and the wheel (as Binky and Smudge never use it). When I'm writing this I think the wheel is definitely the cause so will remove that. I'll put some pics up of the intro in a bit.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

CRL said:


> ive had rats with worse cuts than that. i did take them to the vets and the one on the shoulder he left and it healed fully within 3 days, i just had to check to see if it got infected. and the second was on his side so the vet stappled it as he was a big rat. again it healed within 3 days. ive also had a 6 week old boy with one on his neck and he was fine too he took 4 days to heal. they do bleed alot but they heal very quickly


Ok that has made me feel better. Do I still need to go to the vet or is it a waste of time? How do I stop it from getting infected?


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

the first day i washed it with hibiscrub but didnt after that as if i kept getting the wound wet it wouldnt heal. just litrally check the wound over. see if its healling well or if its turning pussy.


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## Guest (May 28, 2012)

Did you neutralise the cage before you put everyone in?


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

B3rnie said:


> Did you neutralise the cage before you put everyone in?


Yeah I disinfected everything, including the bars, and also wiped it down with baby wipes - took ages!


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm on my phone do I'll post pics later, but Mishka had a cut that was 2 inches wide and 1 inch the other way and it nearly entirely closed up within 6 hours. By the next day I couldn't see it.
It is amazing how quickly they heal up so I wouldn't bother with a vets.
The collar I got was issued by a vet, but they have extra tiny dig collars in [email protected] that might fit and I think they're reusable. 
Other than that you could wrap a bandage round her.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

Ok I'm feeling a bit better now thanks everyone. I will let you know how she is getting on.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

My mum says that the blood has dried and she seems ok. I am less panicked now


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

this is what i think, it seems you rushed things as regards putting toys in the explorer cage. what you should've done is left the explorer bare for at least 2 days and then only add one toy or hammock at a time.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

I guess, I just thought they would be ok with the hammock and the sputnik they had been sharing. I didn't even think about the wheel


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

start back from the begining but next time dont add anything but food and water in the explorer cage for at least 2-3 days and then add one hammock each day.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah I will. I know it's a learning curve for me but I still feel so guilty that Smudgey was the one who got hurt. I wish one of the babies bit me instead


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

don't be silly its not your fault,rats can be so unpredictable at times.


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

That is very true. They were best buddies when I went to bed and it was a warzone when I woke up. I also think the fact that they didn't do much fighting when they first met could have built up to now. They literally walked up to eachother and Smudge was grooming them then they all lay in a big pile. There was 1 squeak. With hindsight that could also be the problem.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

there will be some squeaking along with boxing and pinning down.
they could also chase each other.
but what you want to look out for is anymore bad bites. bites to the bum are seen as aggressive but nibbling/biting and tugging at the neck area is seen as play.

rat piles are good.

also if there are short squeaks thats nothing to worry about but if you hear long screams then thats bad.


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## Claireglynn (Dec 9, 2011)

Hi,

Sorry it went abit wrong.
When i lived in suffolk i took one of my boys to the vet after intro's went wrong with a deep cut to his neck, and the vet i saw specialised in rodents but especially rats, he had kept them for well over 20 years and he told me that 99% of the time that you find a rat with a cut to the neck after intros it will be because of a fight for the alpha rat position or because he was protecing his cage (this second one usually happens immediatly) in the wild the neck is where a dominant rat will attack another dominant rat for either the alpha rat postion or for invading his territory, because it inflicts the most damage.

I dont know if this is totally true just what the vet told me.

So i definatly would start again with intros, and like others have said go really slow, not that anything was done wrong before.

Good luck


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

This may be of some help to you chris.
Fancy Rats | Information | Introductions


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