# Help :-( Is it Permanent



## dogtocat (Nov 10, 2014)

Long and lengthy - but please indulge a new cat owner very concerned with his relationship with his new friend for the next 15-20 years!!!

I've been active with the forum since I got my kitten. I appreciate everyone's help and apologize for the questions. Being a lifetime dog person, everything a cat does is new - including how I should interact with the cat.

I got Dexter on Friday. He came home and was super skiddish - ran under the bed or into his crate. For the most part, I left him. But I was impatient a couple of times and pulled him from under the bed or out of his crate (I know I shouldn't do that) - him clawing to stay under. I also had too small a litterbox and he tried to use it, but ended up going in his crate. I got upset (didn't harm the cat - but pulled him out and was angry). I used a very large pan for a litterbox that night - and he used it. He played with us a bit and then slept under my bed that night.

Saturday we played with him a bit in the morning and then went out for a few hours to get cat supplies (new litterbox, climbing tree, etc.). I admit, I pulled him from under the bed again - still not learning my lesson. We came home and he was much more friendly after having a few hours to himself. We had to go out that evening again and when we came home he was a 'chipper' cat.

That night he started out sleeping on my bed - first next to me for a few minutes and then by my feet. By the end of the night, he was under the bed. However, Sunday morning he was not very skiddish and very friendly, playful and loving. Remained that way most of the day - he even did a lot of wandering out the room and down to where we were all relaxing.

Sunday night he was on my bed for about two minute by my feet before heading under the bed (under the bed is where he ALWAYS goes day/night to sleep and get away).

I've learned, for the most part, to leave him alone there and in his crate.

Monday the kids left for school (and will be with mom for the next three days). I took him for his kitty check-up at the vet. He's knew and wanted to make sure he was healthy - but he had ear issues too, so the vet probed his ear.

We got home and there was definitely a shift in his 'friendliness' to me. I noticed he didn't rub up on me much anymore. On Sat/Sun I would call him out from under the bed and he'd come out willingly...but now he would just stay there when I called him.

I did get him to play with me several times during the day - but no rubbing on me and no real letting me pet him (like he had the first couple of days).

Last night - he was under the bed from the beginning of the night. I 'coaxed' him out trying to pet him a bit (I now know that's a mistake). He walked around and went back under the bed. I keep treats and his food in my bathroom and he knows that. I walked into the bathroom and he comes out right to food. I gave him a late meal and then I gave him a couple of treats when he got on my bed. But immediately after the treats, he'd go back under the bed to sleep.

So - a couple of other things:

1) I pick him up a lot. He doesn't typically struggle to leave - but when he does, I usually don't let him jump out of my hands, I put him down slowly and lovingly to hopefully show him I understand.

2) I talk to him a lot and when he talks to me

3) I pet him - leave his stomach alone but give him 'massaging' pets sometimes.

4) Early on I pulled him out of his crate a lot.

5) I praise him a lot. But when he chews on the dogs tail or scratches the furniture - I very GENTLY and quietly say no. Dog tail - no effect. Scratching post - he runs away with the gentle 'no' (almost as if before he was a stray he got in BIG trouble for scratching - generally he's great with the scratching post).

6) He seems AWFULLY hungry (7 month old kitten) - always wants to eat and i've given him more than the recommended amount of food yesterday (extra feeding at bedtime).

7) One other odd thing - things seemed 'ok' We were playing with the laser toy yesterday - and all of a sudden he stopped in his tracks..did 'halloween position' and stared out my bedroom door at nothing and ran terrified under my bed. Ever since then he's been slightly more skiddish and seems distracted by the hallway.

8) My kids are gone half the time and they left Monday morning (after being with me and the cat pretty much since we got him on Friday).

9) I'm a bit high-strung typically - but with the cat I've been pretty relaxed. I'm also wondering if the cat can sense that personality, even being calmer around him, and doesn't like me. My girlfriend's cat adores me, though (Siamese).

10) He did lick me on the cheek last night - with a dog, I figure it's because he smells food. With the cat, I don't know.

11) My sense is as he's gotten more comfortable, he needs/wants me less. First afternoon he slept with me on the couch (briefly) and occasionally jumped on my lap - these events have decreased as he's gotten more comfortable walking around the house (my room is his main 'base' but has access to the house and will wonder out from time-to-time).

12) I did one more thing I regret - I went to bed and couldn't find the cat. Turns out he was curled up with my son. I took him and brought him in my room because I didn't want him to have the run of the house - that was the night he was with me for five minutes before going under the bed.

I'm looking for advice. I've always been a dog person and realize now that those instincts are wrong for a cat. Don't pick him up, leave him alone when he wants to be, less petting, etc. 

Have I done permanent damage with my relationship with him? I have a very loving but aloof older dog - and I'm hoping I can have a bonded relationship with this cat and afraid my new cat owner mistakes have cost me :-(

Your help is appreciated.


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

I doubt that you have done permanent damage, but you have a few bridges to mend.

1) * You have learned to let him come to you in his own time* - good. Make sure that your children learn this too - and if he is fond of your son (some kids just have an instinctive way with animals), let them spend time together. You said you don't want him to have the run of the house at night, and I can quite understand this, but is there any reason why you would prefer him not to sleep with your son? It seems to me that as your son is going to be a regular visitor it would be good for both him and the cat if they formed a strong bond. The cat will appreciate you, too, but cats, much more than dogs, like to pick who they will spend time with, and if there are no medical etc reasons why the cat needs to be kept away from your son, I would leave them together personally. Just put his litter tray where he can access it.

2) *Appetite* - at 7 months he is a "teenage" cat and growing like Topsy. He is likely to have a huge appetite as he experiences growth spurts, and it will level off when his growth slows down. I can't remember if you said whether he was neutered. If he isn't, I suggest that you have hime castrated asap, because an un-neutered tom cat will spray everywhere (and trust me - it will STINK!), and some un-neutered males can become aggressive. He will also try to get out an wander and get into fights. If you live anywhere near parks/woodland he has a chance to get caught n a trap or killed by a wild animal, too. It is much kinder to neuter him. I have always let my cats eat as much as they wanted - they don't tend to be greedy like some dogs, and will rarely overeat in my experience.

3) *Doing stuff you don't want him to* - try to distract him with a toy, rather than telling him off. You could also wrap tinfoil around chair legs, wires etc, as it puts most cats off. He is still at an age when he is getting up to mischief, and you need to keep him and your stuff safe until he is past that sort of chewy. scratchy naughtiness - he doesn't know and is testing out his environment. It's a learning process, but cats are brighter than people give them credit for.

4) *I think that licking you *was a definite sign of affection. He will grow closer to you if you continue to do what you are doing now:

a) let him come to you in his own time

b) continue to talk to him (this is really good, actually - you are instinctively doing the right thing here. As he learns your voice he will learn to trust you.

c) you are right that he will pick up on your moods, so try to keep calm around him - if anything pees you off, go outside, walk around the block or spend ten minutes in the garden, and calm yourself down. Your mood may be nothing to do with him, but he will pick up on it and get distressed.

d) Animals have moods the same as we do - if he feels he doesn't want to be cuddled some days, just give him space - he will come round. He will come to you for a cuddle when he is ready, and the more you let I'm go at his own pace, the more quickly he will warm to you.

If your girlfriend has a cat, she might be able to give you a few pointers, too.

Best of luck to you and your cat - I'm sure the you will happily settle with each other quickly - especially as you have learned that cats aren't just dogs that climb trees :lol:

Take your time now, at the beginning of your relationship, and you will have a wonderful companion for many years.


----------



## Erenya (Jul 22, 2014)

cat's can be so crazy fickle, especially if they're rescue cats or rehomed cats. It's taken one of my friends 3 years for her cat to sit on her lap!! All cats are different, but it sounds like you're getting your head round things. Let Dexter show you what he wants and let him guide you with the amount of attention he wants/needs.

incidentally, our two spent the first two weeks sleeping under the sofa - I guess they felt safe there - we let them get on with it and they're none the worse. he's in a new house and he's finding his feet.

regarding the vet, cat's are notorious for the 'cold shoulder' if they don't like it. after 3 days in a cattery, ours were in such a strop for two days! Maybe he didn't like the vet, he'll come round 

Anyway:



dogtocat said:


> 6) He seems AWFULLY hungry (7 month old kitten) - always wants to eat and i've given him more than the recommended amount of food yesterday (extra feeding at bedtime).


Ask Bengal mum about this - she also has a kitten called Dexter and he was eating her out of house and home!! Kittens grow FAST and are energetic and need lots of food - some are bottomless pits and the general rule is just to keep topping them up when they are hungry - they're unlikely to get fat.

Our two are 8 months and have just had a growth spurt when all they did was eat and eat and eat. They've settled down now, but I'm sure it'll happen again - ours currently get 300-400g of food each!

Also, what are you feeding, some pet foods are better than others and you'll need to feed more of the lower quality ones as he'll need more to fill his little tummy.



dogtocat said:


> 10) He did lick me on the cheek last night - with a dog, I figure it's because he smells food. With the cat, I don't know.


sounds like he's grooming you - which is a good sign - means you're family.

I'm sure all the others will be around soon to give more advice


----------



## dogtocat (Nov 10, 2014)

Thanks Erenya!

That helps. I would love to hear from everyone. I'm an advice taker and love to hear lots of opinions.

I was hoping the licking was a good sign 

Purina One - I need to buy new food today, I accidentally bought adult cat food.


----------



## dogtocat (Nov 10, 2014)

Thanks Lost Bear!! I appreciate the honest feedback. I knew cats were different - but didn't realize the way to interact was so different. They are great.

He is 'fixed'.

Several reasons I pulled him out of bed:

1) I close my door at night and his safe space, litterbox and his most comfortable environment is my room. I guess I could leave the door open (honestly never thought about that...because I like my door closed).

2) I have a dog and while they get along fabulously. Not sure I trust them by themselves yet

3) Don't kitties get into trouble?

4) I guess part of it is I wanted him to get comfortable with me too.

I'm amendable and can learn lessons..thanks for the advice!


----------



## Guest (Nov 18, 2014)

Hi there, I'm Dexter's slave 

He is very nearly 6 months old and eats non-stop most of the time.

Yesterday for instance he ate that much I couldn't keep track but today he's eaten a little less.

You will probably find it varies but mostly many kittens of this age eat a lot. I think Dexter is going to be a big boy too so that's probably why he eats so much


----------



## dogtocat (Nov 10, 2014)

must be a white Dexter thing...


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

dogtocat said:


> must be a white Dexter thing...


Very handsome boy!


----------



## tmerc22 (Jul 21, 2014)

I'm thinking white Dexter thing, mine eats LOADS at 5 months


----------



## Guest (Nov 18, 2014)

Ha ha didn't realise his name was Dexter too 

He eats that much I honestly thought there was something medically wrong with him! He's been wormed etc.

I didn't realise though how big he was until my friend came round who has a kitten the same age and said he was at least twice the size of hers so I'm just putting it down to that but I'll need to take a loan out soon if he doesn't slow down with his eating!


----------



## dogtocat (Nov 10, 2014)

Interesting - my vet told me to feed him the 'prescribed' amount split into two feedings. But it's obvious that he was still very hungry. I really hope I don't have a HUGE boy on my hands, but certainly want to keep him satiated.


----------



## Guest (Nov 18, 2014)

dogtocat said:


> Interesting - my vet told me to feed him the 'prescribed' amount split into two feedings. But it's obvious that he was still very hungry. I really hope I don't have a HUGE boy on my hands, but certainly want to keep him satiated.


I would feed him what he wants unless he's gaining too much weight.

Dexter hasn't got an ounce of fat on him and every time I look at him he seems to have grown.

I am sure at some point they will slow down :scared:


----------



## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

dogtocat said:


> Interesting - my vet told me to feed him the 'prescribed' amount split into two feedings. But it's obvious that he was still very hungry. I really hope I don't have a HUGE boy on my hands, but certainly want to keep him satiated.


Just like children, some cats are bigger than others - and a big cat means a big appetite (also, if he has been a stray, he may be worried about where his next meal is coming from - he will soon learn that he has nothing to fret about and that you will feed him every day).

I like a "big" cat, myself - especially if it's a boy! There is something truly magnificent about them . . . .

Like exquisite miniature lions . . . .

How many of us are lucky enough to have the affection and trust of a wild beast?


----------



## Guest (Nov 18, 2014)

By the way regarding the other parts of your post regarding Dexter's timidity. 

At first my Dexter was a very timid cat. He hid underneath the sofa for some time and only came out to use the litter try and of course eat 

He was very wary of dh. I think because of his size as he's quite tall but he is starting to come round to him now.

Dexter is fine with being picked up and petted but is not a lap cat. He will sit next to me but not on my lap. He is an extremely loving cat though.

Yours might be a cat that doesn't like to be picked up. It doesn't mean he's not affectionate or doesn't like you he just doesn't feel comfortable with it. 

I have an elderly Burmese who is very affectionate but on HIS terms. I can feel him stiffen every time I pick him up so I avoid doing this. He is a real lap cat though.


----------



## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

It takes a lot of time for a cat to completely settle in. We got our cat Bubble in April and he's a gregarious, people loving cat. But he does have scares and hides or he spends time on his own. I let him do what he feels comfortable with. 

When I look back he's come through leaps and bounds but I know he's still not completely there yet. When we first got him, he'd be affectionate for about a few minutes a day! Now he demands affection more often but I let him dictate the terms.

Your cat has been affectionate and I think that's a big big step. Some cats take a very long time before they show affection. So you're getting there. Just give him some quiet when he's hiding and he'll trust you more.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Dogtocat, I agree with the others, feed your kitten on demand as much as he wants. But only feed him wet food, no dry food, as dry food contains lots of carbs and is very fattening. You really will risk having an overweight cat if you demand feed him dry food!

Dry food is also bad for kittens as they are rarely able to drink enough water to keep themselves properly hydrated, so there is a risk of chronic low level dehydration which can cause bladder and kidney illness as well as constipation.

Provide your kitten with several litter boxes, spread around the area you give him access to, so there is always one near him in case he suddenly needs to "go". Place the boxes in places where he will have some privacy. If you are using covered boxes, ensure as he grows they are tall enough for him to squat upright as cats do when they defecate.

Never drag a cat/kitten out of their 'safe' place. If you need to get them out for an urgent reason, coax them out with a toy (such as the Flying Frenzy, or a feather wand), or a treat, so it is the cat's decision to come out, and you are not forcing your will on them. Otherwise leave them to come out in their own time. Encouraging co-operation by persuasion should be your modus operandi when interacting with your cat.

Provide your cat with places to hide away which he can retreat to when he feels shy or wants time on his own. Then he won't have to hide under the bed. These hideaways can be cardboard boxes laid on their sides, or a little house like this:

Amazon.com : Luxury High-end Double Pet House/brown Dog Room Cat Bed 55 X 40 X 42 Cm : Pet Supplies

Whenever he is in one of his little hideaways always respect his privacy and leave him alone. Ensure everyone in the household understands that when kitty is one of his hideaways he is not to be disturbed.


----------



## Guest (Nov 18, 2014)

Yes I have to second all that too. Don't pull him out and let him come to you. It might take a while but he will slowly start to grow in confidence.

I used to get Dexter to come out by throwing paper balls across the room. He couldn't resist them. In fact playing with your cat is a great way to bond with him but let him take the lead. Get down on his level when you are playing it's less threatening to him.

Just noticed you have only had him since Friday. That's no time at all.

My Dexter still likes 'hiding'. He has a few beds and a cat tree but prefers the cat tree (Catherine Tree) and he sleeps on the highest post on the tree. When he uses his bed he chirrups away until he gets the removable cushion loose and then slips underneath that!


----------



## Jannor (Oct 26, 2013)

He's gorgeous 

I was going to say the best way to get them out from under the bed is with a feather stick or flying frenzy .... but Chillminx beat me to it. Never failed with my very timid kitten years ago.


----------



## dogtocat (Nov 10, 2014)

Thanks again guys, great to hear some reassurance. I came home and he came out from under the bed. I fed him and setup his moving water fountain (which he loves) and sat on the floor. Came up to me and gave me a quick lick on the hand.

Of course when I walk by him..he goes flying up there stairs - but feel a bit better from what everyone said.


----------



## tmerc22 (Jul 21, 2014)

People can't believe my Dexter-Meowgi is nearly 5 months, he's sooo long! He's over 3kg now too. I think he's going to be big, I feed wet and dry and he currently has the daily amount of dry as if it was his only food plus now 250-300g of wet a day


----------



## Guest (Nov 19, 2014)

tmerc22 said:


> People can't believe my Dexter-Meowgi is nearly 5 months, he's sooo long! He's over 3kg now too. I think he's going to be big, I feed wet and dry and he currently has the daily amount of dry as if it was his only food plus now 250-300g of wet a day


He looks really big from your photo.

Dexter won't touch dry unfortunately. I say unfortunately because now and again we go away overnight so it would be nice to leave some dry out for him.

I've even tempted him with 'Dreamies' and the Felix treats and he looks at me as if I've gone daft when I put them down in front of him.

My Burmese absolutely loves the Felix treats though. He goes crazy for them


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

You are very lucky Dexter won't touch dry! I am hugely envious. 

All my rescued cats have come to me addicted to dry food and in most cases it has been a heck of a job getting them off it. One of my youngest still won't eat her wet food unless it has a few pieces of dry on it. 

If you have to be away overnight I'd leave Dexter's wet food in an autofeeder, each side timed to open every 4 hours. If he needs more meals than 2 overnight, then use 2 autofeeders. You can buy them with little ice packs to go under the dishes to keep the food fresh.


----------



## dogtocat (Nov 10, 2014)

Update Today - 

Kitten is doing much better. I feel we've done some bonding. Left her last night and went out and every time I've done that, he's gotten more outgoing.

Still slept under the bed. But came up on the bed to say good morning, followed me around a bit. Sat with me on my lap too.

I brushed him this morning and he LOVED it. I figure he did - right? Cats don't hang around if they don't like something. It was a good 15 minutes of him lying there and letting me brush him. After that he seemed much more interested in me. lol.


----------



## Ely01 (May 14, 2014)

dogtocat said:


> Long and lengthy - but please indulge a new cat owner very concerned with his relationship with his new friend for the next 15-20 years!!!
> 
> I've been active with the forum since I got my kitten. I appreciate everyone's help and apologize for the questions. Being a lifetime dog person, everything a cat does is new - including how I should interact with the cat.
> 
> ...


I haven't read what everybody else said so there may be repeats.

Yes let him come to you in his own time, and when he hides away, let him. 
Just be inviting and gentle when he comes out.
If he hides it's either because he wants some time off, or he's scared of something, or is ill. 
If he's scared of something you may not be aware what it is, as he can hear/smell things you can't that are unfamiliar to him. My cat used to run away from the front door and hide whenever he heard somebody walk up the stairwell (tenement building), now he goes to the door and wait for the postman (and enjoys catching the letter as they fall through the door!).
Just comfort him by talking to him if he seems scared. 
If you're concerned he's ill, take him to the vet.

Some cats are quite happy to be petted and enjoy it, others less so. 
Sometimes they let you pet them for a few minutes and then start biting you when they've had enough. Stop immediately. His decision!

Some cats seek company more than others. I'd say as long as you know where he is and he's happy, that's good. If he seeks your company then that's good too, but he may be quite happy doing his own thing. Chat to him, be inviting, but don't push/force anything. This may evolve with time too, he may look for more of your company as he learns to enjoy it, or he may have good/bad days mood wise.

Appetite : as long as he's still growing he'll be devouring food, not to worry.

I would say let him sleep where he likes, and with whom he likes (not with a baby but anything that can push him away and call if he bothers them), unless you don't want him to have the run of the house, in which case let him sleep wherever he likes in the area/territory he is allowed.

Scratching furniture. If you're now equipped with a scratching post or equivalent, when you see him scratch somewhere you'd rather he didn't (it's a tree to him, he's got no concept of the value of a sofa), take him gently to the scratching post and put his paws on it (gently). He'll learn.
My kitty does scratch on the sofa sometimes so I got him an extra scratching post for the living room. He likes it but I still need to take him there now and again. He got used to being told off in the meantime so tends to run away; but I've recently found a way of walking very gently to him without looking at him (otherwise there might be reproach in my eyes!) and he doesn't run away that way. He's starting to use the post more spontaneously.
I think sometimes he scratches the sofa to get attention too, but that's another matter (because he got used to getting some...). Work in progress...

Little lick on the cheek. Sign of affection?

All the best,


----------

