# Zooplus order arrived



## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I'm like a kid at Christmas 

Got some Rocco, Lukullus and Rinti for Heidi - Bozita and Smilla for the cats.

The cats love theirs and been having it for a few months now.

Heidi has had Lukullus and gets on well with that but I know DT recommends Rinti and Hyperspringer Rocco so thought I would give them a bash. 

Got plenty of WW wet trays with their 5% fibre to wean her over and help bung her up if need be 

Cant wait to open them and see if they are as good as LK. How sad am I


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I'm like a kid at Christmas
> 
> Got some Rocco, Lukullus and Rinti for Heidi - Bozita and Smilla for the cats.
> 
> ...


Enjoy  let us know how u get on with the Rocco

Wilsons enjoying his Lukuluss and Terra Cannis .....orderd another Multipack and anothr flavour thats not in the multipack

Game with Wholegrain Pasta, Cranberries & Squash 

I must be spending a bit at Zooplus they sent me some VIP offers


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## chestersmum (Sep 18, 2009)

Chester has had the Lukullus and i can't remember if it was the rinti or the rocco, but i know he absolutely loved them:001_smile:


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Was reading the ingredients for Rinti, I think it was before...there's only 30% meat in it, the rest seems to be made of offal?

Or have I read it wrong?!


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

Horse and Hound said:


> Was reading the ingredients for Rinti, I think it was before...there's only 30% meat in it, the rest seems to be made of offal?
> 
> Or have I read it wrong?!


Just had a look on ZP and I think I read it the same as you - quite a lot of offal content in this food. Hadn't noticed before.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

hyper Springer said:


> Enjoy  let us know how u get on with the Rocco
> 
> Wilsons enjoying his Lukuluss and Terra Cannis .....orderd another Multipack and anothr flavour thats not in the multipack
> 
> ...


Rocco Lamb has gone down a treat. Got the menu variety with peas, carrots and rice. Just got to see how it comes out. If the beef goes down well I will get some different rocco next time.

Will look forward to some VIP offers then - or sulk 



Horse and Hound said:


> Was reading the ingredients for Rinti, I think it was before...there's only 30% meat in it, the rest seems to be made of offal?
> Or have I read it wrong?!


Not sure it does look like a fair bit of offal and mentions derivatives but if DT recommends it - that's good enough for me


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Rocco Lamb has gone down a treat. Got the menu variety with peas, carrots and rice. Just got to see how it comes out. If the beef goes down well I will get some different rocco next time.
> 
> Will look forward to some VIP offers then - or sulk
> 
> Not sure it does look like a fair bit of offal and mentions derivatives but if DT recommends it - that's good enough for me


Oh, does it contain derivatives then? I hadn't noticed..... (off to have a look...)

It's "by-products"..... mm, sounds a bit vague.......


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

henry said:


> Oh, does it contain derivatives then? I hadn't noticed..... (off to have a look...)
> 
> It's "by-products"..... mm, sounds a bit vague.......


Rinti lists derivatives on the can
Rocco lists by products but also states it contains "no by products ex bone meal." Presumably they class bonemeal as a by product and therefore list that it contains by products.
Most probably the derivatives relate to the offal content - perhaps someone can help me here but that's my take on it? 
I know foreign legislation is v strict.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> Was reading the ingredients for Rinti, I think it was before...there's only 30% meat in it, the rest seems to be made of offal?
> 
> Or have I read it wrong?!


That is not quite what it says unless we are looking at different products.

Take the Rinti Pure Beef. It contains an overall meat (including offal) content of min 66%. Of the meat and offal content at least 30% is made up of beef, the remainder will come from different animals.

So, there is no indication that I can see that gives you a vague meat to offal ratio. Might be worth dropping the manufacturer a line to see whether they will divulge that info.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Rinti lists derivatives on the can
> Rocco lists by products but also states it contains "no by products ex bone meal." Presumably they class bonemeal as a by product and therefore list that it contains by products.
> Most probably the derivatives relate to the offal content - perhaps someone can help me here but that's my take on it?
> I know foreign legislation is v strict.


The Rocco makes no statement whatsoever about the ratio of meat to offal. Going by price alone my guess is that it contains more offal than meat. Again, if you are interested email the manufacturer (or zooplus for whom the product is made) to see whether they will tell you more. 

PS. M2H, they say it doesn't contain any "animal meals", which is different from by-products.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> The Rocco makes no statement whatsoever about the ratio of meat to offal. Going by price alone my guess is that it contains more offal than meat. Again, if you are interested email the manufacturer (or zooplus for whom the product is made) to see whether they will tell you more.
> 
> PS. M2H, they say it doesn't contain any "animal meals", which is different from by-products.


Hi Hobbs  I was quoting from the rocco can "no animal by products (ex bone meal)"

I'm quite happy with my purchase - you dont know until you try. No doubt I will be trying out some more before I settle on what we like


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Hi Hobbs  I was quoting from the rocco can "no animal by products (ex bone meal)"
> 
> I'm quite happy with my purchase - you dont know until you try. No doubt I will be trying out some more before I settle on what we like


That is a translation error. They are quite clear on the website that their tins contain meat and by-products. However, they are also quite clear that they don't use any "Formfleisch" (pressed meat) and don't use animal meals, such as bone meal.

I was going to ask how you are getting on with the purchases that arrived today!


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

Are these foods actually made for Zooplus exclusively. Can't seem to find any more info on them on the net - they don't seem to have their own websites. Think Lukullus and Rocco are made by Matina, but again they don;t have a website. Bit awkward if you want further info....


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

henry said:


> Are these foods actually made for Zooplus exclusively. Can't seem to find any more info on them on the net - they don't seem to have their own websites. Think Lukullus and Rocco are made by Matina, but again they don;t have a website. Bit awkward if you want further info....


Claire, Lukullus and Rocco are made by Matina GMbH exclusively for zooplus: MATINA GmbH | Mit unserem Futter sind wir immer für Ihr Haustier da! Für Hunde und Katzen.. Actually, Matina GmBH is just another subsidiary of the zooplus brand with the same board members (they also make two brands of cat food and some litter).

The site for Rocco is here: Rocco Hundefutter | Futter aus 100% Fleisch und Innereien für Hunde
Lukullus here: Lukullus Hundefutter | Naturkost für Hunde

And in case you are interested, Rinti is made by Finnern: DIE FINNERN PETFOOD-FAMILIE - Home - Willkommen bei der FINNERN-PETFOOD FAMILIE

All in German though but if you have google chrome then their translation isn't bad


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Have I mentioned how much I love that you can translate this stuff for us Hobbs lol.

So to put it in idiot terms, for those of us not awake yet (ie me lol), are we saying Rocco, Rinti and Lukullis are basically the German equivalent to pedigree? But just with 90% beak and feathers, instead of 4%?

Or are they actually decent foods?

I tried Rinti and Rocco, the Rocco went right through both dogs (Unusual for Bailey since he thankfully seems to have an iron tum) but Rinti went down very well. But obviously not something I'll want to order again of they're not as good as I thought.


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

Lyceum said:


> Have I mentioned how much I love that you can translate this stuff for us Hobbs lol.
> 
> So to put it in idiot terms, for those of us not awake yet (ie me lol), are we saying Rocco, Rinti and Lukullis are basically the German equivalent to pedigree? But just with 90% beak and feathers, instead of 4%?
> 
> ...


Yes, Lyceum - that's what I was trying to work/find out. Basically is the meat content good and high quality or are there are lot of "unnamed" derivatives and by-products?? I know in our dog foods here, we avoid "derivatives and by-products".


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey guys, remember me??

Well I'm the joey sat here wondering if I have a cupboard full of beaks and feathers without any meat.

Reckon fate has come and bit me on the bum - cats went from 4% meat supermarket rubbish to all meat - no [email protected] But it looks like poor Heidi has gone from the creme de la creme right back to where they came from 

Seriously, (if I didnt laugh I'd cry,) but thanks for helping me sort this one out

Funnily enough, Rocco is going down a treat with normal output so them there beaks n feathers is high quality.


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

The boy does like the Rocco im just not comfy with beef every day....

Now the Lukulus has seven diffrent flavours and the boy likes it im sticking with it for his breaky 

The terra cannis is also going down well:cornut:

So is Lukklus\Rocco made from eyeholes earholes and arseholes ? i hope not....


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

No no no, I think you are all jumping to conclusions right now 

Yes, like most other manufacturers they use by-products. I haven't talked to either of them regarding the stuff they put in their dog food - but in terms of the cat food they produce, Matina makes it quite clear that they are talking about the offal, ie. the lung, heart, liver, kidney, gut etc, not beaks, feet, etc. 

I personally don't have a problem with food containing such by-products. At the end of the day, prey contains that stuff too as well as feathers, fur etc. But what matters and what I have tried to find out for the cat food side, is the ratio of meat to offal. 

For me, in order for a food to be considered to be "good" food, it not only needs to have the proper amount of vitamins and minerals, a good calcium to phosphorus ratio, a good amount of protein and fat and few carbs but most crucially it also needs to have meat to offal ratio of about 2/3 to 1/3 at the least. 

However, you will very rarely find that information on the packaging. So, if you guys really want to know what you are feeding - other than that you know that is is 100% meat, so no grains and other stuff to fill it up, then I suggest you email them to see whether they will divulge that info. Or you have a trawl around the internet to see whether a good soul has already done that and made it public. You never know. 

And just to make it clear again, the 4% meat that you commonly see on the labels here, as we are mostly lead by big-powered manufacturers and less by independent ones who tend to be more transparent, that only refers to the statutory minimum that needs to be declared of the flavour meat. It does not refer to the overall meat content. 

For example, even Whiskas contains about 50% meat in the chunks in jelly (the meat content is higher in pate food as you would expect). Even Bozita who market their tetrapaks in jelly/gravy food as containing a minimum of 93% still only put the statutory 4% of the flavour meat on the label. (With Bozita it is worth keeping in mind though that the 93% refer to the amount of meat in the meaty chunks, not the overall tetrapak... Don't you just love marketing....)


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> No no no, I think you are all jumping to conclusions right now
> 
> Yes, like most other manufacturers they use by-products. I haven't talked to either of them regarding the stuff they put in their dog food - but in terms of the cat food they produce, Matina makes it quite clear that they are talking about the offal, ie. the lung, heart, liver, kidney, gut etc, not beaks, feet, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks Hobbs i dont think i have an issue if its organs as opposed to feet ears etc as Offal i imagine is good for em ???

be good to know the ratio though ....


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks Hobbs my underlying feeling throughout was that it was decent crap and didnt contain any chicken lips!!!

Gary, the Rocco Menu doesnt list beef in all varieties - the lamb and chicken dont have any. BUT it does have rice and a few peas/carrots. (no more than ND/NH etc.) I opted for that range to see how Heidi with the brand. Started her with the lamb that she is used to (pipes all good so far) then will attempt the beef. If that's ok, then I may consider Rocco occasionally.

Not tried the Rinti yet but so far my preference is the LK. My theory is to try a few brands and then settle on what works best.

From what I gather Wilson doesnt have any complaints


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Thanks Hobbs my underlying feeling throughout was that it was decent crap and didnt contain any chicken lips!!!
> 
> Gary, the Rocco Menu doesnt list beef in all varieties - the lamb and chicken dont have any. BUT it does have rice and a few peas/carrots. (no more than ND/NH etc.) I opted for that range to see how Heidi with the brand. Started her with the lamb that she is used to (pipes all good so far) then will attempt the beef. If that's ok, then I may consider Rocco occasionally.
> 
> ...


Fit as a Fiddle....


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

hobbs2004 said:


> No no no, I think you are all jumping to conclusions right now
> 
> Yes, like most other manufacturers they use by-products. I haven't talked to either of them regarding the stuff they put in their dog food - but in terms of the cat food they produce, Matina makes it quite clear that they are talking about the offal, ie. the lung, heart, liver, kidney, gut etc, not beaks, feet, etc.
> 
> ...


Thank you .

I have no problem feeding food with by products in, like yourself, as long as the food isn't mostly made up of those.


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

Just looked at one of the Lukulus ones i feed and the third item in is meat after heart and liver now i dont know if thats the third main ingredient or its there in alphbetical order

Or is it the 1st item which is meat?

I will get the OH to take the can into work again and get the % if listed

Ingredients

Venison & Rabbit with Brown Rice, Apple, and Linseed Oil:
66% meat and animal by-products (heart, liver, meat, stomach, tripe), exclusively from rabbit and game, meat stock, apples, rice, minerals, linseed oil

Additives:

Vitamin A (3,000 IU/kg), vitamin D 3 (200 IU/kg), vitamin E (30 mg/kg) 


By compariosn two of the Terra cannis i also feed also contain some offal(but also human grade and includes musclemeat)...i thought Offal was good and fed as part of Barf?


Lamb with courgettes, millet & dill:
Muscle meat of lamb, lamb hearts, lamb throat, carrots, apple, courgettes, celery, millet, rapeseed oil, dried egg, organic eggshell, dill, basil, seaweed, water.
gluten-free

Game with wholegrain pasta, cranberries & squash:
Muscle meat of venison, squash, courgettes, carrots, wholemeal pasta, low-fat yoghurt, cranberries, wheat germ oil, chives, seaweed, organic eggshell, water.
gluten-free 

its bloody confusing


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Regulations state that items need to be listed in order of weight but it is up to the manufacturer to order them in ascending or descending order. Most are the latter though. So, it look as though the Lukullus contains more heart and liver than meat all from the flavour animals. 

Yes, offal is good but it is the amount of it that matters imo. 

To complicate things, labelling regulations are changing this year to make them "more" consumer friendly. So, there might be changes in the labels on the tins you order in the coming months.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> And just to make it clear again, the 4% meat that you commonly see on the labels here, as we are mostly lead by big-powered manufacturers and less by independent ones who tend to be more transparent, that only refers to the statutory minimum that needs to be declared of the flavour meat. It does not refer to the overall meat content.


Right, this might make me feel a bit better about what I'm currently feeding the boys then...

With regards to the current Butchers they are getting-

INGREDIENTS: Chicken, Duck and Vegetables: Meat and Animal Derivatives (Chicken min. 30%, Duck min. 4%, Fresh Meat min. 4%, Total Meat Content min. 40%), the 4% declared could just be a legal requirement to declare that it has the minimum?

40% meat content is rubbish, I know, but I'm hopefully going to be in a position to change them back to something decent.

Rocco is listed as being 70% beef, the other 30% being made up of the other flavour listed. Now for me this would be ideal, as too much chicken sets Harvey off...tis just a case of figuring out OF that 70 and 30%, what is offal and what is actual meat?

Then you look at Bozita, that is all chicken based, but doesn't give any %...but you would expect that they have to list the main ingredient first.

Bloody minefield this lot, I tell ya.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> Right, this might make me feel a bit better about what I'm currently feeding the boys then...
> 
> With regards to the current Butchers they are getting-
> 
> ...


Interesting how butchers throws that "fresh meat min of 4%" in there, eh? I tried my hardest to pin them down on a ratio in the cat food but they were adamant that that is proprietory information.

The cat butchers classic composition looks like this: eat and animal derivatives (chicken min 4%), minerals, contains EC permitted colourants (caramel or iron oxide)

But they did say that their food contains about 50% meat and by-products from a number of animals in there.

Yes, Rocco seems to be beef-based. Yes, someone would just need to email them to see whether they will tell you how much they use approx is meat and how much is offal.

Re the butchers. The cat range has three types: tetrapaks in jelly/gravy, tetrapacks in pate and tins. The tins contain mostly offal, with lung being the first declared ingredient. They also told me that the cat tins contains approximately 70% offal. The pate tetrapaks are the same. The jelly/gravy one are 50/50 or thereabouts. If you are interested in finding out then I can only say that I have always found them to be very helpful (though response times may be a little slow)

Just checked the dog ones and like the cat tetrapaks, the chicken one also contains pork. Incidentally, the tins seem to have the most detailed declaration for the time being, declaring exactly what by-products are going in.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Just checked the dog ones and like the cat tetrapaks, the chicken one also contains pork. Incidentally, the tins seem to have the most detailed declaration for the time being, declaring exactly what by-products are going in.


I might drop them an email...although on the other hand I actually don't want to know...


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Hopefully it will all be balanced foods and with the correct amounts of offal/meat. 

- mine eats rabbit derivatives/by products every day so whats a bit of Rocco 


Off to do my ostrich impression be back when the dust has settled


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

I rang AG (re. their Partners wet food) and Naturediet - they told me there are no "derivatives or by-products" in their food. Thought I read that on their website previously. May try and ring Natures Menu and see what they have to say.


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

henry said:


> I rang AG (re. their Partners wet food) and Naturediet - they told me there are no "derivatives or by-products" in their food. Thought I read that on their website previously. May try and ring Natures Menu and see what they have to say.


Do they make NH as well ?


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

hyper Springer said:


> Do they make NH as well ?


Nah - Judges Choice make NH..... I'll have a looky on their site and see what they say... hold on.

They just say "high fresh meat content" and nothing artificial.....


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

Naturediet, on their site, go into how lots of canned foods include "meat and animal derivatives and by-products" but not their food. Think I may stick to Naturediet or the Partners then....... don't want derivatives and by-products!

Trouble is, according to ND and AG, it is such a broad description and can cover a lot of different parts...... 

Sorry, just thinking aloud there!


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

Natures Menu say their food is "prepared using whole cuts of fresh meat"....


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

henry said:


> Natures Menu say their food is "prepared using whole cuts of fresh meat"....


Ta ive got shed loads of LK to get through and hes happy on it and also loads of TK which i think is as good as if not better than Lillys...

Im thinking once the LK is gone im going to give him Lillys for breaky and TK for tea

Not cheap though £4 a day....i might knock the Origen on the head as a topper and give him just wet

i suppose im lucky in the current climes i can afford it

[email protected] i spend more than that on wine per day so he can have em both:tongue:


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

hyper Springer said:


> Ta ive got shed loads of LK to get through and hes happy on it and also loads of TK which i think is as good as if not better than Lillys...
> 
> Im thinking once the LK is gone im going to give him Lillys for breaky and TK for tea
> 
> ...


Come on then, Gary..... when you say you have "shed-loads" how much exactly do you mean?? I have "garage-load" and counted them yesterday - 219 tins/trays to be precise!!

LK looks the best one to me, along with the Terra Canis, out of the Zooplus stuff - although I might be wrong.

Lilys is fantastic stuff!


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

henry said:


> Natures Menu say their food is "prepared using whole cuts of fresh meat"....


The cat one contains 75% meat and 25% offal.

Also, they have taken the various sugars out of their pouches.


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

hobbs2004 said:


> The cat one contains 75% meat and 25% offal.
> 
> Also, they have taken the various sugars out of their pouches.


Yes, they told me they were going to take the Various Sugars out - that's a good move! The cat one sounds very good 75% and 25% offal is a better proportion of offal rather than the higher offal in some of the other tinned foods. Thanks for that, Hobbs! I think the NM tins are really good and like they say "prepared from fresh cuts of meat - no derivatives".


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

Oh and check out these guys: ProPet - MAC's für Hunde | ProPet Koller Markenvertrieb

I swear by their cat food and i have heard that the dog version is just as good. Only drawback is that you have to get it from German online shops.

Just to wax lyrical about the cat one: it contains 70% meat, 30% offal - all fully declared -, a perfect ca/p ratio, I get the grain-free versions, and it is cheap, costing 1.25 euro for 400g and 2.27 for 800g tins.


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

hobbs2004 said:


> Oh and check out these guys: ProPet - MAC's für Hunde | ProPet Koller Markenvertrieb
> 
> I swear by their cat food and i have heard that the dog version is just as good. Only drawback is that you have to get it from German online shops.
> 
> Just to wax lyrical about the cat one: it contains 70% meat, 30% offal - all fully declared -, a perfect ca/p ratio, I get the grain-free versions, and it is cheap, costing 1.25 euro for 400g and 2.27 for 800g tins.


Thankies Hobbs! Think I'll try and avoid "derivatives and by-products" if at all possible - too much confusion about what they mean, I think. That;s why I like Naturediet - they go into such detail on their website and hopefully they have sorted their packaging troubles now - new packaging coming soon.


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

henry said:


> Come on then, Gary..... when you say you have "shed-loads" how much exactly do you mean?? I have "garage-load" and counted them yesterday - 219 tins/trays to be precise!!
> 
> LK looks the best one to me, along with the Terra Canis, out of the Zooplus stuff - although I might be wrong.
> 
> Lilys is fantastic stuff!


Im afraid you beat me in the hording stakes.... 
:biggrin5:
I have 42 x 6 diffrent varietys of LK and 24 cans mixed of TC

Im not comfy with the offal content longterm so it looks like his lordship will be on Lillys for breaky and TC for Tea.... £4 a day

trust me though Claire if henry enjoys the Lillys he will go [email protected] loopy for the TC 

Have a look at the variety pack x 12 its on special at the mo

Maybe as a special treat on x factor nights.....:cornut:


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> Oh and check out these guys: ProPet - MAC's für Hunde | ProPet Koller Markenvertrieb
> 
> I swear by their cat food and i have heard that the dog version is just as good. Only drawback is that you have to get it from German online shops.
> 
> Just to wax lyrical about the cat one: it contains 70% meat, 30% offal - all fully declared -, a perfect ca/p ratio, I get the grain-free versions, and it is cheap, costing 1.25 euro for 400g and 2.27 for 800g tins.


Hobbs out of curiosity wot you make of the terre Cannis im feeding for Tea and it smells devine...the ingredients look top draw as well...the german site does not translate well in google.....as you speak the lingo,,,


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

hyper Springer said:


> Im afraid you beat me in the hording stakes....
> :biggrin5:
> I have 42 x 6 diffrent varietys of LK and 24 cans mixed of TC
> 
> ...


Hiya! Hold on Gary - are you saying you've got 248 cans of LK (42 x 6) plus 24 cans TC? If so, methinks you are hoarding more than I!!! Maybe you mean 42 in total(?) - if so, then I am beating you in the "stock up in case of famine" stakes!

Yes - I do like the look of the TC - just think may have to wait a while before husband can't actually get into the garage.

Dunno bout X-Factor this year....... won't be the same without SC!

Know what you mean about the Offal....... I wouldn't be happy with such a high content and some of the ingredients wording is too vague for me....


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I've been giving this a lot of thought and yesterday, have to admit was a bit put off and dumping the whole ruddy lot did cross my mind

But whilst I was going off the idea, Heidi was doing quite the opposite and to me that's the proof of the pudding

Considering it arrived on Tuesday and her first couple of meals incorporated a little WW, she's been loving it. Perfect poohs, no signs of digestion probs. She's had LK before and was great on that but Rocco, I was a bit concerned about, more so after yesterdays feedback. 

Ok, so the description isnt what we are used to but the use of feet beak and @rseholes has been banned here for years (I think). Foreign legislation is tighter (I believe). My take is that "by products" and "derivatives" relate to the offal content as Hobbs kindly pointed out. (LK lists the offal).

Raw feeders tweak the diet with offal and bone - offal to loosen and bone to firm poohs. If that's the case then too much offal would surely have the same effect? Works for Heidi. I see the evidence after chicken wings and a bit of liver
I would much prefer offal to food filled with rice, potato etc.
Surely a company switched on enough to incorporate seasonal produce would be aware of offal overload.

Seeing is also believing and what comes in these cans looks good enough to eat. Another tell tale sign - Heidi whimpers when I'm dishing up.

Getting this down in black and white has been v therapeutic and I'm now convinced this lot wont be ditched


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

When you say LK, you mean Lukullus or Lilly's Kitchen, if so have you got a link to where you got the Lilly's Kitchen from?


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

Horse and Hound said:


> When you say LK, you mean Lukullus or Lilly's Kitchen, if so have you got a link to where you got the Lilly's Kitchen from?


Think Sandie means Lukullus as that is what Heidi has as well.

Lilly's Kitchen has their own website or you can get it from Ocado.com.


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I've been giving this a lot of thought and yesterday, have to admit was a bit put off and dumping the whole ruddy lot did cross my mind
> 
> But whilst I was going off the idea, Heidi was doing quite the opposite and to me that's the proof of the pudding
> 
> ...


I definitely wouldn't ditch it, Sandie, even if it does contain derivatives, etc. Wouldn't do any harm in the short-term, even if you decide not to buy any more.

I wonder if you can get in touch with the Rocco manufacturers by e-mail. Even if you can't speak German, I bet they will understand your English enquiry (Germans are very good with their English!). At least then you would get an answer from the "horse's mouth" so to speak and it may put your mind at rest.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

henry said:


> Think Sandie means Lukullus as that is what Heidi has as well.
> 
> Lilly's Kitchen has their own website or you can get it from Ocado.com.


Cheers, I thought she meant Lukullus!

I'll be looking into it once I've got back on my feet and I'm in the market for more food. Favouring the Lukullus or the Rocco at the moment.


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

I absolutely agree with your reasoning M2H. At the end of the day, it depends on what one is happy feeding. 

I have emailed Rocco and have had word back re the meat/offal content. It is 50/50, with the by-products used being lung, heart, liver, kidney, stomach. 

They also sent me the calcium/phosphorus values and the food contains a good ca/p ratio of 1.3:1.

Hope that helps


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

hobbs2004 said:


> I absolutely agree with your reasoning M2H. At the end of the day, it depends on what one is happy feeding.
> 
> I have emailed Rocco and have had word back re the meat/offal content. It is 50/50, with the by-products used being lung, heart, liver, kidney, stomach.
> 
> ...


Hey - double-posted at the same time as you, Hobbs! You were already on the case! That's great - hopefully that'll put Sandie's mind at rest. Thanks for clarifying! Claire


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> I absolutely agree with your reasoning M2H. At the end of the day, it depends on what one is happy feeding.
> 
> I have emailed Rocco and have had word back re the meat/offal content. It is 50/50, with the by-products used being lung, heart, liver, kidney, stomach.
> 
> ...


I'm on the same wave length as M2H to be honest with you. I said to her that it might be crap, but you only have to see the way mine go MENTAL for their Butchers ...Roo is sat waiting for it when I put it down, and I have to feed them apart now as they'll scrap over it. They've NEVER done that with anything else. Granted, I don't want them on it for ever, and if the Rocco stuff works out at fairly reasonable, I think once we're on our feet I'll try it out with them.

Roo also loves the Hi-Life wet, so might carry on getting that for him once we're over the sticky patch fund wise. There's NOTHING bad that I can see in it! Its 50% chicken or 40% chicken, 10% beef depending on the variety, peas, carrots vits and minerals (added from seaweed and ash) and they bind it in tapioca! It looks bloody good enough for me to eat as its PROPER chunks of chicken, you can see it, it looks like when you pull it off a cooked chicken. But to keep Harvey on it as well, he'd need 4 pouches a day, and you only get 8 in a box, and its £6 for a box! Plus, its hard as he can be dodgy with chicken. So what I've taken to do is bulking H's meal out with Skinners and using wet as a topper, which seems to work. He favours his kibble over his wet... where as Roo is the complete opposite! 

Their teeth are pristine, they still get their raw bones and their minces once ever 2/3days, their sardines once a week, their coats are fab and no itching or scratching thanks to the Yumega oil. Even my groomer said that considering Roo was part westie his skin was perfect. She's asked me if I'll consider letting her use Roo in a shoot/testimonial for Yumega!!! I was like, he's not a pedigree or anything but she said they won't care, they like testimonials for "normal" dogs! 

And if Rocco is 50-50%, then I'll use it one day and balance it out the next with a meal of the AMP minces and their kibble. Then I'm sure they're getting what they need. ​


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

hobbs2004 said:


> I absolutely agree with your reasoning M2H. At the end of the day, it depends on what one is happy feeding.
> 
> I have emailed Rocco and have had word back re the meat/offal content. It is 50/50, with the by-products used being lung, heart, liver, kidney, stomach.
> 
> ...


Thanks Hobbs, My gut feeling (pardon the pun) was that it was ok.

That puts my mind at rest re LK too (which in my opinion is the better food)being made by the same company and lists the offal on their label. I remember you saying rinti was made by another reputable company so I have no reservations there either.
Little green blobby coming your way x


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## chestersmum (Sep 18, 2009)

Horse and Hound said:


> I'm on the same wave length as M2H to be honest with you. I said to her that it might be crap, but you only have to see the way mine go MENTAL for their Butchers ...Roo is sat waiting for it when I put it down, and I have to feed them apart now as they'll scrap over it. They've NEVER done that with anything else. Granted, I don't want them on it for ever, and if the Rocco stuff works out at fairly reasonable, I think once we're on our feet I'll try it out with them.
> 
> Roo also loves the Hi-Life wet, so might carry on getting that for him once we're over the sticky patch fund wise. There's NOTHING bad that I can see in it! Its 50% chicken or 40% chicken, 10% beef depending on the variety, peas, carrots vits and minerals (added from seaweed and ash) and they bind it in tapioca! It looks bloody good enough for me to eat as its PROPER chunks of chicken, you can see it, it looks like when you pull it off a cooked chicken. But to keep Harvey on it as well, he'd need 4 pouches a day, and you only get 8 in a box, and its £6 for a box! Plus, its hard as he can be dodgy with chicken. So what I've taken to do is bulking H's meal out with Skinners and using wet as a topper, which seems to work. He favours his kibble over his wet... where as Roo is the complete opposite!
> 
> ...


I just checked out the hilife on the back of your post, never looked at it before in [email protected], doesnt look too bad at all for the price


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

chestersmum said:


> I just checked out the hilife on the back of your post, never looked at it before in [email protected], doesnt look too bad at all for the price


Its not, and if it was just Roo I'd probably stick with that alone, but you have to feed approx 1 pouches per 3 kilos of weight, so for my two combined I'd be going through a box of it every 2 days.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> Its not, and if it was just Roo I'd probably stick with that alone, but you have to feed approx 1 pouches per 3 kilos of weight, so for my two combined I'd be going through a box of it every 2 days.


That's quite expensive would cost about £2.00 a day for Heidi compared to Lukullus 83p - based on the 800g cans 6 x 800g - £9.99. 
Rocco menu 6 x 800g £7.49 - 62p a day.
Of course the biggest factor is Roo liking it but I'm sure Harvey would so you could save a few pennies that way may be.


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## chestersmum (Sep 18, 2009)

Horse and Hound said:


> Its not, and if it was just Roo I'd probably stick with that alone, but you have to feed approx 1 pouches per 3 kilos of weight, so for my two combined I'd be going through a box of it every 2 days.


thats a lot isnt it.

I'd probably use it as a topper with Chesters dry food


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

chestersmum said:


> thats a lot isnt it.
> 
> I'd probably use it as a topper with Chesters dry food


Yeah, that's what I do with Harvey at the moment, but Roo just eats it on its own but even then I'm going through a box ever 2/3 days.


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

I still think the Lk\rocco is a fairly good food not as good as say Lillys\terra cannis and when this stash runs out i will still feed the odd can so the boy can have his offal

He loves eating it and the output is good so it cant be a bad food....i hope

only 40 odd cans to go.....then Lillys and TC

just wish Lillys done more flavours.......likke TC


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

hyper Springer said:


> I still think the Lk\rocco is a fairly good food not as good as say Lillys\terra cannis and when this stash runs out i will still feed the odd can so the boy can have his offal
> 
> He loves eating it and the output is good so it cant be a bad food....i hope
> 
> ...


Agreed - Lilys sounds the best as does TC - bit out of my price bracket altho I expect she will be pampered a bit more in her old age 

I'm preferring the LK but Madam is equally impressed with the Rocco and has some say I suppose 
See how we go I suppose


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Agreed - Lilys sounds the best as does TC - bit out of my price bracket altho I expect she will be pampered a bit more in her old age
> 
> I'm preferring the LK but Madam is equally impressed with the Rocco and has some say I suppose
> See how we go I suppose


Exactly if they like it and the output is good then that can only be a good thing...

When i went onto Rocco then LK it was straight in no mixing with old food and no issues at all in fact he knocks out less output than he did on ND\NH and always solid...apart from the odd atomic coloured spaniel exitement poo:cornut:

Ive just started him on yumove tabs for his joints even though hes fit as a fiddle and 20 mths old....prevention is bbetter than cure and all that....im sure i read somewhere though that some dogs go loopy on green lipped mussles ....or did i imagine it??


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

Well ive decided what to do to use up my stash....

Hes going to have Lillys 4 flavours once a week for brreaky with 3 tins of lukulus making up the remainder of the week...this way he gets 7 diffrent flavours and a mix of the Organic Lillys and some organs from the Lukullus

And for tea im sticking with the Terra cannis...variety selection currently £4 off at £24 x12

both meals with his slack handfull of Orijen 6 fish.....

Hes been off the bionic biotic for a week and Pipes are still solid so thats a tenner saved

I feel bad enough as hes off to Kennels at the end of next week for a week while me and other half go on cruise round med :biggrin5: for a belated 40th birthday treat without me worrying about him overloading on Offal

Just as i think ive got this dog food malarkey nailed down and grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

hyper Springer said:


> Well ive decided what to do to use up my stash....
> 
> Hes going to have Lillys 4 flavours once a week for brreaky with 3 tins of lukulus making up the remainder of the week...this way he gets 7 diffrent flavours and a mix of the Organic Lillys and some organs from the Lukullus
> 
> ...


Sounds like a v good plan. I've yet to make mine Bit thrown by he enthusiasm for Rocco  so will wait till we've tried the rinti and then decide.

I've just gone back to using bionic biotics (will go out of date otherwise).

Cant count the number of times I've nailed the food situation and it's flown straight out the window.

I'm sure you'll have a lovely holiday safe in the knowledge that Wilson is having the right mix of organic, kibble and offal


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Sounds like a v good plan. I've yet to make mine Bit thrown by he enthusiasm for Rocco  so will wait till we've tried the rinti and then decide.
> 
> I've just gone back to using bionic biotics (will go out of date otherwise).
> 
> ...


Thanks....im sure Wilson will enjoy being able to enjoy barking his head off all day \night to his hearts content withouth being told off, while daddy courtesy of the all inclusive drinks package will have a lay in past 5:30 am and then get completly buckled on Mojito cocktales\red wine while touring the deilights of Portofino pisa\florence and Corsica

Oh i feel a wicked Daddy.......:hand:


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

just been looking more into Offal and quite surprised that ziwipeak seems to contain a lot of offal....and £2.35 a can 20% meat 38 % offal

So the LK and Rocco at under a quid a can dont seem bad value??

ZiwiPeak DAILY DOG CUISINE CANS 385g - V


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Good to hear it's not just the ZP foods that contain plenty of offal. 

I'm sure years ago most people fed loads from butchers/abbatoirs as a cheap was of feeding. Presume the pet minces you used to buy and cook (phew I can smell it now)years ago, would have been mainly offal too.
Sounds as if food is turning full circle with us bringing up the rear as usual.

You're such a wicked Daddy but it's a cross somebody has to bare and I'm sure you will do it admirably With Wilson's best interests at heart and his need for a rowdy time away from the day to day goings on.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Mine had chicken and tripe mince this evening. It stank when it came out of the microwave. knocked me sick


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> Mine had chicken and tripe mince this evening. It stank when it came out of the microwave. knocked me sick


Note to self - "avoid chicken and tripe mince"


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Note to self - "avoid chicken and tripe mince"


Hmmm they enjoyed it though.

Mind you, Harvey enjoys eating cow poo as well, so not sure that's a good thing to judge by.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> Hmmm they enjoyed it though.
> 
> Mind you, Harvey enjoys eating cow poo as well, so not sure that's a good thing to judge by.


Heidi has the same fettish. We were on the moors yesterday and I'm not sure if it was scattered horse's or sheep 

Think I will stick with the ZPlus cans


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## chestersmum (Sep 18, 2009)

The smell of tripe makes me gag when it's cold. I can't imagine the whiff it makes when it's heated up


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