# Will worm meds cause puppy whining?



## DaBearSox (Feb 25, 2010)

My GF and I got a German Shepherd puppy about a week and a half ago. She is currently 9 1/2 weeks. The first week was a struggle to ignore but we finally got her to stop whining in her crate at night and in her "area" during the day. 

She has had giardia since we got her...the first week she was on meds for three days and just went back to the vet yesterday and got the same meds for another 5 days. (I think they are the worm meds that work for giardia, not home right now so can't check)

All of a sudden she has become a whiner again...a 2 hour session today in her "area" The 2nd set of pills we got upped the dose by 1/2 pill and by 2 days. Last night was a struggle in her crate for the first time in 5 days. So I am wondering if these pills could be causing her to go back to the ways she had the first few days...

We give her the pill in the afternoon so it seems like it gets worse after...she seemed to be fine when she has to be alone in her area for about 2 hours when our work schedules over lap? 

Can anyone shed any light?

Thanks!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

DaBearSox said:


> My GF and I got a GSD-pup about 10-days back; She is... 9 1/2 weeks. The first week was a struggle... we finally got her to stop whining in her crate at night and in her "area" during the day.
> *She has had giardia since we got her... *t
> he first week she was on meds for 3-days... back to the vet yest... same meds for another 5 days. [snip]...
> 
> ...


Giardia is a wicked parasite, and sadly for her, GSDs tend to have sensitive stomachs + guts. :nonod: 
they often suffer from stress triggered or emotionally triggered diarrhea, which means that an argument in the house could upset her so badly, she could have the sh*ts for 3 to 5 days, just on that one relatively-minor quarrel.

so this is Not good news for a breed fairly notorious for gut issues.  poor kid... 
Division of Parasitic Diseases - Giardiasis Fact Sheet 
Giardia can cause gut-cramping, pain, gassy-gurgles, intestinal spasms, extreme tiredness, nausea, etc... 
to say nothing of any side-FX from the meds themselves.

so short answer? 
YES, absolutely! she can be feeling really, really punk + sick, as well as her gut being inflamed. :blush2:

check out CHRONIC Giardia - 
Giardiasis

Giardia can be covert, very dificult to Dx + very hard to eradicate. 
*i HOPE the vet told U to have her stool onto a sheet of paper + discard it immediately? * 
this prevents live-spores from contaminating the soil - they can live for years.

this is a summary from 4 sources - 
the cysts are hardy; they can live outside the body, in soil, warm or cold water. 
BOILING for a minimum of 10-mins at a rolling boil will kill the cysts. 
Infection occurs when cysts are ingested; via polluted water, food, or by fecal-oral exposure. once in the stomach, digestive acid pops the cyst; each releases 2 trophozoites. they live in the bowel, attaching to the mucosa by a sucking disk .

*Giardiasis impacts the body's ability to absorb fats, so the feces contain unabsorbed fats; the diarrhea floats, is shiny in appearance (greasy), and smells very bad. people can have chronic diarrhea, for weeks, months, or years, with continual weight-fluctuations; wt-loss, small gains, and more loss.*

Treatment - 
Giardiasis is generally treated with Flagyl and antibiotics, usually 3 times a day for 5 to 10 days. *Side-effects may include nausea.* NEvER combine alcohol with Flagyl; also, Flagyl is not prescribed in early pregnancy, it can be dangerous to the fetus.

Albenzazole, metronidazole or furizolidone are generally used to treat giardiasis. 
*prevention should be taken NOT to expose or contaminate surfaces; wash hands very-thoroughly after toilet visits, including Under the Nails; dispose of sewage wastes so they don't contaminate surface water, soil, or groundwater; 
Do Not Drink untreated water from springs, streams or lakes; 
Do NOT Wash Hands with untreated water from these sources, 
NOR brush teeth without boiling, or filtering AND chemical treatments - 
filtering is not sufficient alone. * 
___________________________________

digestive enzymes can help the pup absorb nutrients from her damaged gut; 
ReNew LIFE Digest-More ULTRA 
DigestMORE Ultra - Natural Digestive Enzyme Supplement | Healthy Digestion, Powerful Plant Enzymes 
is an excellent name-brand product, i have used it; my elderly mother found it to be very helpful. 
i have recommended it to my clients, and given it to my pets, too. 
digestive-enzymes cannot be STORED in the body; they are used with each meal.

Probiotics Blends > Udo's Choice PRODUCT INFORMATION > Udo Erasmus Web page! Super 8 High Potency Blend 
Udos Choice has several high-potency probiotics capsules - this is only ONE. 
i like it because it has 8 kinds of critters - the more species, the more resilience. :thumbsup: 
once well-established, the critters are self-propagating, barring starvation or death by antibiotics.

i also suggest Live Culture organic yogurt - 
particularly as a medium to get the probiotics into the dog. 
1 to 2 Tbsp of yogurt, slip the capsule open (into 2 halves) and mix the powder into the yogurt. 
then blop it on her meals - AM + PM both, for 3 days; then AM with the probiotics, daily.

*Ask the VET to be sure that this is OK - but they should be able to say Yes or No over the phone. 
yogurt, probiotics + dig-enzymes are all GRAS - generally regarded as safe.* 
the only NO might be the dairy-product - some antibiotics do not get along with dairy.

i hope the poor puppy feels much better, Soon!  
full disclosure - i get Nothing from either company, nor any distributor, seller, or any affiliate; 
i use em, i like em, i recommend em. 

cheers, 
--- terry


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## DaBearSox (Feb 25, 2010)

Terry thank you so much for all the great info! We knew that GSDs have very sensitive stomachs, our vet gave us some food with fiber in it to harden up her stools while she is getting rid of it....they are a nasty parasite...

After some research about the drug Drontal that Ellie was prescribed I came up with some other pups showing the same actions that our little one is...here are the links...it looks like even though the vet says Drontal has no side effects others are experiencing what we are.

Roly Poly | Tricia&#039;s Musings

Previously quiet puppy now crying through night - Puppy & Dog Forums

Drontal Plus reaction. - Dog Community, Dog Pictures, Dog Forum & Information â Dog.community


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

DaBearSox said:


> We knew that GSDs have very sensitive stomachs, our vet gave us some food with fiber in it to harden up her stools while she is getting rid of it... they are a nasty parasite...
> 
> After some research about the drug Drontal... I came up with some other pups showing the same actions that our little one is... it looks like even though the vet says Drontal has no side effects others are experiencing what we are.


poor baby! :nonod: 
the fiber-change itself can make her gut painful - if she is unused to (x), it will affect her GI. 
i have a HUNCH that the fiber in her vet-prescribed food is BEET-PULP. 
this is not a very gentle ingredient - it is harsh + rough on a sore gut.

one of the *gentlest* fibers for dogs is canned Plain-Pumpkin - NOT pie filling, plain pumpkin. 
lay a flat palm on her belly, well below her navel - can U FEEL it gurgle? 
(don;t forget - WASH hands well, or U will contaminate every surface U touch; her tongue has been washing her belly + anus, she will have cysts on her belly, and her mouth will be contaminated with feces.)

if she is gurgling actively, ask the vet about trying canned-pumpkin with her regular diet; 
add 1.5 to 2-Tbsp of canned-pumpkin per meal, *in addition to* the regular meal. 
[there is a WEIGHT-Loss version that substitutes pumpkin for a portion of the meal, 
this is *not* that diet - this merely adds indigestible fiber on-top-of her calories.)

poor infant, i hope her belly heals fast! 
--- terry


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## DaBearSox (Feb 25, 2010)

Yea we actually started off with the canned pumpkin well it was canned butternut squash because I guess the pumpkin growing season was horrible here and i went to three grocery stores and they didn't have any in stock without the pumpkin pie spices in it. It seemed to work but only with her morning stools so the vet gave us the food and said only to use it while she is on the meds because it is adult food. 

We have been feeding her "Wellness" Large breed puppy (not sure if available in the UK) The vet said since it was better in the morning than at night it might also be the food so after she is off the fiber food and if the runs come back we will start searching for another product. 

She has been getting probiotics with her meals...

I stayed up a little later with her last night while she slept on her pillow in front of me...then we went down and she was a lot better in her crate...no whining other than about 20 minutes after she went out for her 3am potty. 

We have 3 days left with the Drontal so we are going to give it to her a little bit earlier in the day so that the side effects she is experiencing are calmed down by the night. We'll hold off on keeping her contained in her area.

We have been very good about washing our hands and using hand sanitizer after washing. However our yard is probably contaminated...the first few days we weren't having her go on paper. I did read however that giardia does not like quick changes in temperature. Here in Denver it will get under freezing at night and then warm up in the day time....hopefully this kills off some of the buggers that are out there. The vet said Colorado is pretty bad though and there is really nothing we can do to keep her from coming in contact with it again...She'll always be on probiotics so hopefully they will help keep her clean for the most part.


Edit: just noticed your in the US


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

DaBearSox said:


> ...The vet said since it was better in the morning than at night, it might also be the (fiber)food... she is off the fiber food and if the runs come back we will start searching for another product.
> 
> She has been getting probiotics with her meals...
> 
> ...


i hope the poor mite is feeling better - 
my cousin Cathy got a wicked dose of Giardia while helping with a bear-census in the Yellowstone back-country. 
(the FILTER they were issued was defective!  no better than running the water thru a pipe.) 
she spent 3-weeks in hospital, and was told she will eat a special breakfast *for the rest of her life* to boost her gut-function + immune system. :nonod: 
unsulphured molasses + yogurt were 2 of the ingredients.

fingers crossed for a healed belly, 
--- terry


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