# How much dog noise a 'nuisance'?



## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

I have recently received a second complaint about my dog from a neighbour via environmental health. The complaint states my dog whines when left alone.

I have had ongoing neighbour issues so was certain the first time this was a false complaint and I recorded my dog when i left. My dog was quiet and sleeping everytime and the complaint was dropped because the neighbour didnt take it any further.

Yet here I am this week with another letter.

I have decided to increase the walks my dog gets and just appear to be doing all the write things. I care more about my dog than what my neighbour thinks at this stage as I don't think this is genuine.

It does however bring up questions to me..

My wife and myself both work from home so my dog is rarely alone, maybe 3 times a week for periods of 3-4 hours. IF my dog were to be whining during this time even for a short say 5 minute period is this considered a 'nuisance' in terms of being fined?

My dog is so quiet, she doesn't bark at all, I mean never! In 5 years I have heard her bark 3 times all 1 single bark 

I feel a bit victimised, but also want to be sure if it is happening how much is acceptable in the eyes of the law.

Thanks for any advice in advance


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I would think to contest this complaint you need facts. Can you record your dog during your absences ? Have Enviromental Services actually investigated the complaint, coming round and listening for themselves ? 
Some neighbours have very little tolerance of any sounds they're not making themselves, but you need to be in a position where you can refute their claims with proof.


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm still videoing my dog when I leave her alone.

The council have said that my evidence is not worht anything in court as it isnt recorded by an official officer.

I invited them to come round and record but they have to do it when the neighbour claims further.

I'm mostly curious now if my neighbour is this sensitive and my dog were to occasionally whine is this of a concern?

I mean I'm pretty sure most houses I visit with dogs the dog barks when the doorbell rings or if the postman visits etc. So this seems pretty minor in comparison.

I'm just a worrier so I just like reassurance that it cant really come to much even if it were happening.


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## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

I think you should save the recordings....make a few at different times you go out, so you can prove that she is quiet when you aren't home.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Is there a possibility that they could be mistaking yours for another dog?
Many years ago my then neighbour used to go to work and leave their dog in the garden. It barked incessantly 
My dogs where blamed for it because they were visible and no one knew the other dog even existed because it never went beyond the back garden. 

If you are certain it's not your dog than I would ask Environmental health to put a recording device into your home.


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## catseyes (Sep 10, 2010)

It sounds like there isnt much more you can do unless your neighbour complains further.. have you tried to talk to your neighbour about it and see what they say?

Im glad mine arent like that zelda is a barker at every car, cat, door knock etc etc.. and can freak out barking if i leave her home without grizzler there.

Thankfully they have 2 dogs as well though so we're all used to barking noises. and think our middle wall is pretty thick as we both say we dont hear much at all.


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

Sadly no communication with the neighbour due to us having to file a complaint against them last year. That's why I feel this is another retaliation.

I offered the council to come and record last time, they declined. They also declined to view my evidence.

I've been reading up and most things are about barking and it states that the council will record your dogs behaviour and if it is at unsocial hours or frequently then it is a nuisance.


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## LahLahsDogs (Jul 4, 2012)

When I 1st moved into my house my neighbour said that he was going to speak to environmental health due to my dog barking. I couldn't believe he was barking as he is very very quiet and just has the odd bark when someone is at the door. Normal dog noises. I've watched him over an IP camera while we're out and he's never barking so don't know what his problem was. He never has reported anything though, and I think he was just being a iffy as he's had problems with people who have lived here previously and according to other neighbours, he's just a bit funny with people who live in this house. So I think some people can just be a bit intolerant.

It might be worth speaking to your neighbour to see when exactly your dog is barking, and what they are complaining about. You'll then have more idea of what the problem is and how to sort it. 

I heard somewhere that 20 minutes constant barking was enough to report.. but don't quote me on that. I'd say the odd dog bark if someone comes to the house, or if something spooks them is reasonable.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Having lived next to noisy neighbours I can understand both sides. 

I agree that it's a good idea to record your dog, then if you really don't think she whines for more than just a few minutes, then get the council to put in their own equipment. Maybe speak to the authorities and ask them what they deem to be unreasonable? I assume you do the Kong, chew, toy thing etc. to keep her occuplied. 

Maybe because you work from home she is so used to you being there she has a bit of SA. Try leaving her for a short time every day so it comes as less of a shock when you do it for longer periods, i.e. pop out for a paper, etc.

If you are leaving her for 3-4 hours and she whines for the first 5 mins, I wouldn't say that was a cause for complaint. But if she does it for 3-4 hours on and off, then it would drive me mad too 

If you are not on great terms with your neighbours then they may be being unreasonable themselves. It is a trickly situation.

Good luck


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

Thank you all for the advice and input.

I think I need to just not worry about it.

My dog isn't left home alone all day barking or even howling. Thank you all for the advice and input.


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

I should point out that I'm currently having to put up with their loud TV every night.


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## LahLahsDogs (Jul 4, 2012)

Why don't you send them a letter if you have problems talking to them... Then if it did ever go to court you can provide a copy of the letter to say you've tried to resolve the problem with your neighbour.

Ask if you can meet with them to talk amicably about their problems with your dog and ask when they hear your dog barking and how long it goes on for. Say that you're asking these questions so you can be proactive with resolving the issue as you don't know when he's barking. 

Hopefully they'll meet up with you to talk about it, or maybe you'll get a reply with the information you need.. 

If not, then atleast you have a document which you can give to the court to show that you have tried to resolve the issue, but your neighbour didn't provide the information.


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

I would love to be able to do that, but she has harnessed us so much I requested zero contact from her to stop my children seeing her bad behaviour as I didn't want them to become worried.

Contact is not an option.

I am showing willing and have phoned the council to offer to do anything I need to do.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

My neighbours have moaned about my dogs barking in the past too, despite the fact they don't bark any more than a normal dog does. Also despite the fact that their old dog used to bark constantly, they play the radio loudly all day with the door open in the spring/summer, sing opera loudly (yes, I am serious) and they drill and bang stuff in their garden workshop every day as loud as physically possible.

Basically they are just moaning old farts and we ignore them now. We said politely that if they felt they had a reasonable case against us, then to please go down the proper avenues and report us the the council rather then effing and blinding and winding our dogs up over the fence like idiots. Our little chat seemed to have worked as we haven't had in incident with them in quite a long time.


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## Strawberryearth (Apr 5, 2012)

Previous posts seem to have generally said what I would have said too, but I just wanted to add my experience. 

I used to live near (not next to, I was in a flat- top floor, and my bedroom window was sort of above their garden bar a small walkway) some really noisy students. They would sit in their garden at all hrs, I'm talking 4am, listening to ragga and shouting/laughing/clapping. It drove me insane. I even called the 111 service (like 999 but not emergency) for the police to go over at one point, 4am and they'd been at it for hours... I digress.

I got in touch with the council who said I could make a complaint against them but in order for them to take it further/serve a noise abatement order, they would need to come to my house and use a decibel meter to judge the volume of the noise. I also had to keep a diary of all the times they were noisy and type/time etc. It helped if my neighbours were in on it too....

Basically, it takes a fair amount of persistence and complaining, diary keeping and officer supervised assessments before anything will actually be done about it. It is unlikely your neighbour would be bothered to do it all unless it was REALLY bad, so the letter is prob just the council following the complaint up, but unlikely anything will actually become of it. Even if they did put in the effort, it sounds like your dog is rarely left alone, so a few mins (even an hour) of whining every now and then is NOTHING to what the council prob has to deal with and is unlikely to be worthy of any sort of action against you. Yes, it might be annoying, but if it is rare then they are prob just being d**ks about it. You wouldn't complain about somebodies crying baby would you?!!


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

I'm confused 

You see my friend who is a police officer has a dog that barks and barks loudly and I asked her if her neighbours complained about the barking and she told me there is nothing they can do about it as this is during the day and it is only when someone comes to the door etc.

:wink:


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

OK this sounds better and more like it. 

Thank you all


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

OK so a little update.

After this happening months ago and me recording my dog and not hearing any noise form my dog I thought I would record my dog again whilst out today.

I hear some whining!

It's not much at all, but she is whining. My neighbour really has it out for me so I suspect is blowing it out of proportion.

However, this does concern me.

It is literally after my wife leaves she whines a soft whimper for around 1 minute. Then half way through being out she has another moment and whimpers for around a minute.

She then settles and goes back to sleep.

This is right after having a walk this morning so very odd too.

She also wonders into the kitchen to do the whining, which is the adjacent wall to my neighbour and makes me suspicious, but that's just me being paranoid.

It is by no means loud howling or anything its a whiner, I'm amazed my neighbour could hear it.

Anyway..

My concerns

If it is audible next door, can I be fined etc by the council?

Is my dog unhappy? She doesn't seem it generally.

Is my neighbour provoking it? I can't tell this but it seems really out of character for my dog and she had just had a long walk. Dog whistle or something?

Do I be honest with the council and tell them what I have heard? My gut feeling is I want to as that's the kind of guy I am, even though it would provide my neighbour with more fuel for her ongoing beef against us.


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## HandsomeHound (Sep 1, 2012)

It doesn't sound as tho' your dog is being a problem, so perhaps it's just the neighbours being malicious.

I agree with the others that you should keep the recordings, regardless of whether the Council will accept them, make sure you date and time stamp them.

I would've thought that the Council would need date, time and duration of the supposed nuisance from your neighbour in order to take things further.

I also think it would be worth keeping a log of all the dates and times you're are at home with the dog, so that if the neighbours do submit dates and times when your dog is supposedly being a nuisance, you can refute it.

We're trying to get Dottie used to being left for short periods of time during the day, she's not overly keen, but apart from a couple of woofs when we leave, we can't hear her when we stand outside, and she's perfectly content and quiet when we get back.

I think it's unreasonable of anyone to complain to the Council unless your dog is howling and barking for hours on end all times of the day and night. A few minutes here and there isn't unreasonable, and I'm sure your neighbour wouldn't complain if your dog barked and scared off someone trying to burgle their house!


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Could it be that your neighbour is banging or making loud noises in the kitchen to provoke your dog?

Our neighbour used to complain about my greyhound barking then I discovered when he did bark she was shouting over the fence for him to shut up this made him worse. Then one day she was waiting on our doorstep when we came in. She told us he had been barking all day and if we didn't shut him up she would go to the council. My answer to her was she must have good ears as William had been with us all day 70 miles away and got him out of the car. That was the end of the complaints she never bothered again.


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

I do wonder about her provoking my dog

However other than my dog appearing to being paying attention to something then whining the video shows nothing.

It's seems out of character for my dog

I think ill phone the council Monday and explain I've seen a very small amount of whining.


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## Kunakizz (Nov 25, 2012)

I used to work for the LA and we had to investigate every complaint about noise. We visited both parties and if applicable left a time sheet for the person to fill in every time the dog started and stopped barking. In the 5 years I was there no complaints were ever taken further (this was only dog noise). 

Neighbours must expect a certain amount of noise from everyday life and I doubt if a dog could whine 24/7. I remember living next door to a toddler who had an ear piercing scream. My 2 nearest neighbours keep motorbikes that they like to rev up. My dogs do bark outside but arent allowed to carry on 'cos it annoys me too! It's give and take. 

We did have a case at work where someone constantly complained about 2 dogs barking for lengths of time and the dog owners suspected the dogs were being antagonised, but the last time the person complained the dogs were away in kennels so it wasn't them. Like another poster says, there may also be another dog somewhere making a noise. Try not to worry.


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

Thank you

I am rather worried still as I have to tell them my dog is whining a little but it seems so little (less than 10 minutes) and we only leave her alone maybe 3 times a week.

If my neighbour was using a whistle to annoy my dog would that cause whimpering? Hard to say I guess, anyway to detect a dog whistle?

I'm hoping just by confirming with the council I am recording everything that will get passed back to the neighbour and if anything like that occurred would put them off.

I've also decided to leave all the kitchen fans on for white noise when I'm out. Good idea?


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I would try to re-train the dog. Record the dog, leave the dog alone for say half and hour then returning, lots of praise whether it barked or not you are home and that should be a happy, position occasion, and not full of apprehension.

Listen to the recording, if the dog is quiet increase the time you are out say 15 minutes to half an hour. If the dog barks while you are out go back a step or two.

I own a dog and a neighbour has a barking dog, I am intolerant more than half a dozen barks and the owner imo should find out why the dog is barking. As soon as my dog barks I go out immediately - we have a large population of foxes and I have two rabbits, not to mention possible intruders, most of the time Duke is responding to the neighbours barking dog.

What would be your limit before it became a nuisance, may be through the day you would be quite happy for a dog to bark but what about when you are in bed albeit hypothetical but some people work nights and sleep through the day, just a thought.

tbh I would not report a dog for barking, that's what dogs do, even though it can be annoying.

From your last post, sounds like your neighbour is a bit of ar*e to be honest.


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

This is a good plan

On the recordings I haven't dog is whining for a short time when we leave and that's pretty much it. Maybe has another little whine for a minute in the middle.

It isn't long spells, nowhere near.

I was curious how loud it is as hard to tell on a recording so whilst everyone left at 10am today I've sat quietly in the lounge next to the room where my dig is.

She whined very quietly for around 1 minute and that wasn't even constant.

I've now been sat here for nearly 40 minutes and nothing !

She thinks I'm out and I haven't made a sound.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

I wouldn't bother telling the council anything. They have to investigate every complaint, but if they feel it's malicious often won't take it any further. My old neighbour was a morbid complainer, and I had loads of complaint letters over the years - everything from litter in the garden (which I found out later she was sweeping out of her front garden under the fence into mine), to external doors banging at midnight (single parent with no visitors), to putting dog mess on the compost heap and making a smell (farmers manurering fields). The council knwe what she was like, adn when she moved they gave me a new neighbour who had also lived next door to a morbid complainer. We're both so chilled out now!

The council can't take recordings from your house as evidence, as they need to be from the neighbours house.

If you keep getting the letters but no further action is taken by the council you could speak to the local PSCO to see if it's considered harrassment.


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

We have had dealings with the PCSO before as she was constantly putting letters through the door and ringing our doorbell over trivial matters.

She then started making the issue a noise issue and the PCSO explained that was out if their control.

I do wonder if this continues will it be a harrasment case

Naturally all of these paths make it difficult for me to sell up at any point.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

No chance she's a council tennant is she? Anti-social behaviour is against most of their policies. I had a complaint once about some *ahem* shenanigans in my back garden, it was just a kiss under the stars! She even reported me for 'being drunk' with a child in the house. He was with his dad that weekend! I put in a complaint about invasion of privacy - although obviously the garden isn't totally private, I should be able to kiss anyone I fancy in my own garden. She didn't like it because the person involved was the same gender I am. I was told the council did take my complaint seriously because it was getting ridiculous at one point the amount of letters I was getting.


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## NoHero (Mar 1, 2013)

Some people really have too much interest in other people's business don't they!

Sadly she owns the property!

I mostly think she's trying to provoke a response because she is loud in the evenings I could easily report her but she loves the attention!


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Personally I wouldnt make the effort to ring the council when they are clearly not bothering about it at the moment.
But would continue to keep records and footage


I dont think what you have described is a nuisance at all


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