# Agressive weimaraner



## sleeper (Nov 22, 2008)

Hi all,
just posted on the new section as ive just joined.
Just a quick rundown of our dog
Its a weimaraner cross with labrador, jet black with all the features of the weimaraner.
In the family we have three children, 4-8 and 11.
jack (the dog) gets on well with everyone, we have had him 4 weeks and he is settling in really well apart from one issue that has my partner worried about more than me.
Some times , when locking up and going to bed jack get very stubborn and he will not go into his room (we need to close the door) he sits there and just will not move, so that we are not dominated we never give in and a couple of times he has turned his head, once this happens your a bit apprehensive but with some persuasion he finally moves.
Now i believe hes dominating us at this point so last night as soon as he turn his head (believe he is a little stressed at this point) i pinned him down he bit at my hand and broke the skin...nothing major and nothing that im worried about at all, he was held down until he calmed down.
When i released him after 5 mins he got up and then when directed to the room, he went in with no problems.
Now the concern is that although the kids play and hang off him as kids do, he may turn his head, which is something we do not want to happen.
So im after advise, im not for giving up right away and would ideally like this part of the jacks behavior removed, but at the same time assure everyone else that he will continue to be fine with the kids and training will completely stop this part of him.
If it was just me and my partner then it wouldn't rally be an issue
he is 2 years old and other than the issue ive put above hes is perfect.
Look forward to your responce...john


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## Natik (Mar 9, 2008)

I would suggest strongly u stop pinning him down as this will certainly cause u to be bitten! Thats not a way at all to show ur dog "dominance".
Have u tried to get him in the room with offering him some tasty treats?
Make it more pleasent for him?


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Natik said:


> I would suggest strongly u stop pinning him down as this will certainly cause u to be bitten! Thats not a way at all to show ur dog "dominance".
> Have u tried to get him in the room with offering him some tasty treats?
> Make it more pleasent for him?


I actually agree. you got bitten because your actions forced your dog into thinking he has to protect himself.

Dogs do things because they get something out of it. He doesn't want to be shut away for the night, probably becaus eit is boring and lonely. Therefore he hesitates about going in. It appears that however you have been trying toget him in, it makes him feel like he has to defend himself.

I too would try temtping him in with treats, and also maybe give him a stuffed kong in there at bedtime, or keep a few special toys he is only allowed when he goes to bed, so he starts to associate going to bed with good things.


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

As dogs are pack animals they have a need to be with you. Not always possible I know but I would tempt him into the room with treats and try leaving some on his bed. Good luck.


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## sleeper (Nov 22, 2008)

Thank you for your response
So to get the dog into hes room you have to coax him with a treat, i agree with that but What about the aggressive behavior.
If he doesn't want to move then he will not, not even for a treat.
He goes into the room many times in the day and doent display aggression..maybe his head is down and you get the impression he does not want to but he goes.
Should you be able to put your hand on the dogs coller and with a little tug
direct him to the area you want him to go without showing his teeth or turning his head towards your hand?
Im thinking generally here, in daily life, to get jack out of thinking he can show teeth and turn his head when he doesn't want to do something...again this is rare...is this a balanced dog? 90% of the time he is fine and a great four legged friend.
I suppose i see giving the dog a treat as giving in (if he does move)..yes getting him to were you want is OK but im on about the aggressive side.
Would he be dominant to a pack leader and be like this..or would the pack leader get some treats out!
Isnt the treat given as a reward for good behavior, like that used in many training situations and would jack see that you cannot move him and the only way is to treat him.. to me it comes across as bad dog=treat in this issue only.
I dont always pin the dog down, if i was to show the dog my hand, in the same way as if your going to stroke his head then he will nip you, im not bitten when he is being held, just when i reach for the collor or stroke his head to calm him down, then if he bites then he is pinned until he lets go, given time to chill then when released he gets up with a sorry dog look on his face (head down) and does what he is told.
I never raise my voice,or panic OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!! JACK LET GO...LOOSE YOU @#;;,..............there is none of that which i believe can promote the dog and make it possibly worse.


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

I would NOT under any circumstances pin a dog down, In the past I have read that trainers have adopted this method of training - to me it is the most stupid thing anyone could do. 

I can recommend a very good person who is used to re-adjusting the most difficult cases of dog behaviour depending on what area you are in .
regards
sue


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

If you are having problems when the dog doesn't want to do something, then make it so that he DOES want to do it. I think the idea of a stuffed Kong, full of yummy things he only gets when he goes to bed is an excellent one.

Don't think of it as giving in. You are attributing human emotions onto a dog.

Try to forget most of the dominance theories when it comes to training. Most of it is rubbish anyway and as you have discovered, trying to pin your dog down to display dominance over him is a terrible idea.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Forget about pack leader/ dominance, it isn't helping you. 

IMO, your dog is showing normal, doggy behaviour. Dogs do not like their collars grabbed until they have been taught to do so, and especially if something may have happened to them in the past. Most dogs will tolerate it without being taught to, but some will not. 

If you remove the cause for his 'aggression' you remove the need for him to react like that. So by not grabbing him and 'coaxing' him into the room you want him in, you remove his need to react badly. Does he growl before he bites you? 

He may well go into the room during the day because he knows he is not likely to be shut int here, or at least not shut in all night on his own. 

One of my girls doesn't like coming back in from the garden, or back into the kitchen at night to go to bed. Despite the fact she is never on her own. She will stand in the doorway but not come in.  (I think she somehow learnt thi sbehaviour in her previosu home) I'll rattle the tin where I keep their food, but she won't come oin, so I rustle the bag that contains the 'special' treats (they always get a treat, I don't tease them, the rustle or rattle or whatever signals what they will get) if that fails I oepn the fridge and get out some ham. And if she doesn't want in fromt he garden, that can still fail, in which case she is shut out there on her own for 10 minutes or so, then she'll come straight in. It can be frustrating, but I like that she is an individual, and it is funny seeing her weigh things up. She is in no way 'dominant' she just likes the lounge or garden better than the kitchen.


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## sleeper (Nov 22, 2008)

thank you for your reply's.
I will take the advise you have all given me and approach it a different way.
Break the treats out and see how he gets on.

When he is being like this he never growls, just stares at you with the blank im not moving look.

Just to reiterate i don't lunge at him or show him aggression, nether grasp his coller in a forceful way.
Its because of the children im concerned that if he get to that state of mind,however he does then i do not want him to bite them.

Again...thank you


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## kerry_candice (Nov 17, 2008)

i have a 13 week old puppy, same as ur dog he isnt real keen on goin 2 bed. (which child is??) i usually give him food then bout 20-30 mins later put him in the garden for 5 mins to go toilet before its bed time. then close all other doors, his only options are his bed or outside and broxi ALWAYS chooses his bed and then he gets a treat aswell when he goes in2 his bed. i hate doing this but its the only way with him (i think)!!

when ur not tred do u wanago 2 bed???


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

How old is your dog? as he may have learnt behaviour that you will have to undo


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## jilly40 (Oct 22, 2008)

our rescue lucy was 5yrs old when we got her she was collar shy if thats the right term? & we used treats this worked well.i found she was better with the children than us touching her neck i suppose she didnt feel as threatend by them? weve had her 3yrs now n we can touch her neck now as she knows we will not hurt her,but she wont let people she doesnt know touch her neck. it just took time n patience.try mini sausages ours will do anything 4 those!! our gsd weve had four weeks gave me a look when i told him 2 go 2 bed,i just gave him a gentle nuge with my knee instead of goin 4 his collar.i trust him now but he still gives me an uncertain look.


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

sleeper said:


> Hi all,
> just posted on the new section as ive just joined.
> Just a quick rundown of our dog
> Its a weimaraner cross with labrador, jet black with all the features of the weimaraner.
> ...


Hi,

It's great that you've given a rescue a home.

Would love to see some pics of your Weim/Lab X, jet black with Weim features sounds beautiful.

I agree with the other members responses in that you should completely throw your current approach out the window, yes you need to provide your dog with leadership (especially the weim part  ), but this should not be done by behaving dominant toward your dog, this approach will only damage what could be a beautiful relationship.

As Jack is a rescue you will need to appreciate that he will have history that you will not know about. No matter what the history you should just treat Jack as if he were untrained, un-socialised, and go back to basics as if he were a puppy.

Please don't think treats are a cop out. If you're going to train Jack in a positive way then you will need to use plenty of treats. Dogs are more than happy to work, but like us humans, they quite like being paid for it.  So just think of treats as wages, you ask Jack so 'sit' he complies he gets paid.

When Jack sits and looks at you he's thinking "Why should I go in there, what's in it for me? I'm not going in just cos you say so, that would be stupid. Go on give me a reason and make it nice." 

With regards to holding his collar, it sounds like Jack could be hand shy, so you will need to go slow and be very patient. In fact most dogs have to be conditioned to accept our human ways of always wanting to pet their lovely faces/necks.

So out with dominance and in with positive reward based training.

A few links that you might find helpful:

The Bite Stops Here

The Rescue Dog by Gwen Bailey

Association of Pet Dog Trainers - Dog Training Resources


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

sleeper said:


> thank you for your reply's.
> I will take the advise you have all given me and approach it a different way.
> Break the treats out and see how he gets on.
> 
> ...


Hi. It's interesting hearing about other people's opinion on this. I would say that if he doesn't want to go to his room and you have tried tempting him with treats, then lead him in gently by the collar. If he is still not playing ball then pull him a bit harder. Bottom line is he has to do as he is told. Putting the dog down in the submissive position should really be the last resort. If he starts showing you teeth then correct him by saying no in a calm voice and simulate with your hand a bite on the side of his neck. In the wild the pack leader would bite to gain control. If this fails and he continues to show teeth then resort to the submissive position. In my opinion agression can quickly escelate and with young children you are right to be addressing this. But as said, the submissive position really should be the last resort. Good luck.


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

goodvic2 said:


> Hi. It's interesting hearing about other people's opinion on this. I would say that if he doesn't want to go to his room and you have tried tempting him with treats, then lead him in gently by the collar. If he is still not playing ball then pull him a bit harder. Bottom line is he has to do as he is told. Putting the dog down in the submissive position should really be the last resort. If he starts showing you teeth then correct him by saying no in a calm voice and simulate with your hand a bite on the side of his neck. In the wild the pack leader would bite to gain control. If this fails and he continues to show teeth then resort to the submissive position. In my opinion agression can quickly escelate and with young children you are right to be addressing this. But as said, the submissive position really should be the last resort. Good luck.


Please tell me this is a wind up :scared:

No dog should be treated as you suggest, and no dog has to do as they are told.

Bottom line is all dogs need to be conditioned/trained, and this can be done in positive ways.



> In the wild the pack leader would bite to gain control


I have been fortunate enough to go on many field studies and I have never seen an alpha wolf bite a subordinate to gain control, an alpha wolf is always in control, if he were not in control this would be seen as a sign of weakness, and then his position would be up for discussion. 

I repeat, please tell me this is a wind up!!!


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## jilly40 (Oct 22, 2008)

we picked lucy up from the pound i took her 2 the vets the nxt day she bit my hand & bruised it.i was shocked & immediatly thought about my children.the vet said she was just scared n it was a warning if she had meant it i wud be bleeding.i took his advice & she is a lovely dog & is so good with my children now.rescue dogs need longer 2 adjust as we do not know in most cases there background.being dumped in kennles is enough on its own let alone what else they may have been thru. as has been said just be patient . lots of love treats it just takes longer 4 the trust 2 build up between you but once it has you will have a very loyal family dog


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

I think you will have to work hard on getting the dog to trust you. As some rescue dogs have been badly let down by us humans. So begin with the basics like sit and down and always reward that way they see you as someone they can trust. Then when you want the dog to do anything they will respond because they trust you. Well thats the theory


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