# Totally upset, lost faith feel cheated by breeder



## FISA (Jun 29, 2019)

We just bought a BSH kitten 2 days ago from a breeder who seemed very genuine as seems to advertise often. 

Our kitten is gffc registered. After we purchased the kitten I went home I was having doubts already. The breeder seemed to force us to take the kitten. She wasn’t interested in ya or our background at all! 

Secondly she described our kitten as being a spotted blue but there’s nothing spotty about her after googling what one looks like. 

Thirdly the kitten hasn’t had her full vaccinations and she told us she would be due in another 3 weeks her final one. 

And finally the biggest mistake, our kitten is ONLY 9 weeks old! She’s absolutely tiny. Our home is so peaceful and the poor thing is distressed. Is howling out all the time won’t eat anything. And won’t even come out at all a single bit. 

I called the breeder on the first day asking if we could take her back and at first she said she would call us back and told us to just keep her for a day. 

The next day she is completely busy and now isn’t returning my calls. 

I have lost complete trust and feel like I have been mislead. 

In the meantime We have come to be aware that we shouldn’t have bought the kitten or even be offered it, as it’s less than 13 weeks old and if they are registered with the GFFC then this is strictly against the guidelines that the gffc stipulate to all registered breeders and we shouldn’t have been offered this kitten, including not being fully immunised. 

We wasn’t aware of the above guidelines at the time and we feel as an experienced breeder she would have been aware.

Tbh this has put me off owning a pet altogether and we just want to get the kitty back to it’s mother where she belongs and return her and hope she would offer our money back. 

Please help guys. I’m really confused and upset and don’t know what route to take. 

What would you do in this case?


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Do you have the registration papers proving she is registered with the GCCF?


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Welcome to the forum- it’s a pity you didn’t join before you got your poor little kitten.
The ’breeder’ is obviously a backyard breeder. I don’t think there will be a chance of them taking the kit back. And even if they do it won’t stay with mum but will be sold again at the earliest opportunity. 

The ’breeder’ appeared experienced to you because of many advertised kittens- actually that should have rung an alarm bell as responsible breeders don’t have many kittens on offer all the time.

Now that you have got the little one you better try to offer him what he needs. I‘m no expert there as I got my girls at 16 weeks of age and they were properly weaned, but others can help there.

If you absolutely can’t cope you can look to rehome the poor little kitten- a rescue might help you there, but again I‘m unable to give advice as I am not from the UK. Are you? Then others can help you with that, too.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Sacremist said:


> Do you have the registration papers proving she is registered with the GCCF?


The only reason I ask this is because as @ChaosCat cat says, it sounds like you've gone to a Backyard breeder, but if you have proof of registration, you can report the breeder to the GCCF. If, however, she had lied and you have no proof of registration or she's given you false documents then the GCCF will not be interested.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Do you have any pictures?


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Can only echo the above advice. You should have received an official GCCF registration card from the breeder with the name and parentage of your kitten, the breeder's name and address, and the UIN number


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Poor little baby. You are stuck I am afraid. Please, now is the time to cut your losses and start thinking about the baby you have. Forget about the "breeder" and being taken in. You aren't the first and won't be the last. 

I am wondering if your kitten is younger even than 9 weeks based on the behavior you describe. Either that or the kitten was not socialized at all. Probably raised in a cage in the back yard.

Can't you just forget all that now and concentrate on this baby? She needs you. You'll have help here.


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## FISA (Jun 29, 2019)

Hi guys 

I appreciate all the responses. Regarding the Gccf she said this will get done and I would receive the papers in due course once I knew what the kitty was called. 


She gave me a receipt with the amount paid 
1 week pet plan insurance certificate 
And a form that shows the parents lineage. She told me the father of the kit was a champion breed. 

I haven’t mentioned the gccf to her just yet. 
So do you think I should ask for the gccf registration certificate ? 

I’m sure she showed me a certicate of her being registered with them and I saw her log into their website but I don’t know if that means much. 

I’m even more worried now !!


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

If it was a backyard breeder, the poor kitten may even be younger, because these people want to get these kittens off their hands asap so they can breed the queen again. I would try and get hold of all the paperwork, but you might not get it.
But what's done is done, and your no1 priority is to care for the kitten now. I'm not an expert at all in breeding, and it's been many years since I had a little kitten, but others will be able to advise you on what to do to make her more social and confident.
Could you make enquires with the relevant authorities regarding the kitten and report her? (ie the certification board) I don't know if they have any power, but they might be able to give you advice.

You aren't the first victim of these BYB people, people are coming on here quite frequently who have bought a kitten with good intent, and find out later they've been conned. You have good intentions, and sadly, these BYB exploit that. 

Good luck.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

FISA said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I appreciate all the responses. Regarding the Gccf she said this will get done and I would receive the papers in due course once I knew what the kitty was called.
> 
> ...


Really, the kitten is more important than all that. As I said before, I doubt this kitten is even 9 weeks. More likely to be 6. Probably not had any vaccinations at all.

What have you done for her so far? A kitten cannot go without eating for very long before she becomes sick. She will become dehydrated, hypoglycemic, and her organs will begin to fail.

What are you offering her? I would recommend you get some kitten replacement formula and try mixing it in a little wet food, all warmed up. Offer it to her on your finger so she can lick it off. Hold her gently in your lap for feedings.

If you cannot get her to eat or drink and it has been 2 days this is an emergency and you need to take her to the vet for fluids.

Keep her in one room for safety and comfort. Spend all your time in that room with her, including sleeping in there, so she can get used to you. Talk to her a lot,. Allow her to have a safe place to hide away, but make sure you have access to it so you can check on her.


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## FISA (Jun 29, 2019)

Rufus15 said:


> Can only echo the above advice. You should have received an official GCCF registration card from the breeder with the name and parentage of your kitten, the breeder's name and address, and the UIN number


Should she have given me this straight away ? She said I would receive it once we knew what the kitten was called.

Do I call her again and ask for the certificate?


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## FISA (Jun 29, 2019)

Sacremist said:


> Do you have any pictures?


Yes I do. I think she looks about 9 weeks but I am no expert.


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

She looks less than 9 weeks old. I wouldn't like to guess exactly, but she is very small and younger looking.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

FISA said:


> Should she have given me this straight away ? She said I would receive it once we knew what the kitten was called.
> 
> Do I call her again and ask for the certificate?


I highly doubt you will get it. Do you know what the lady's prefix is?



FISA said:


> Yes I do. I think she looks about 9 weeks but I am no expert.


She doesn't look spotted, but I'm not sure how early one can see spots in a BSH coat. She is possibly more likely to be a mackerel pattern.


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## FISA (Jun 29, 2019)

Rufus15 said:


> I highly doubt you will get it. Do you know what the lady's prefix is?
> 
> She doesn't look spotted, but I'm not sure how early one can see spots in a BSH coat. She is possibly more likely to be a mackerel pattern.


Yes I know the prefix. How can I see if they are registered with the gffc?


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Unfortunately, I’ve heard this before about registration documents not being given when you collect the kitten; it’s quite a common con, I’m afraid. The answer to your question is, yes, you absolutely should have received the documents along with your kitten. I would say this is definitely a byb who has lied to you. Unfortunately the kitten looks younger than 9 weeks and probably hasn’t been weaned.

As has been said, you can’t change anything now, so your priority needs to be this little kitten who desperately needs you to help her.

Go to your vet or buy online some Cimikat kitten formula. Don’t buy the Pets at Home rubbish. Kittens can be frightened of bowls of milk, so using a spoon with some of the formula offer it to the kitten. If need be, gently dip her mouth into the formula. It’s a bit messy, but she should start to lick the milk off her mouth.

Once she gets a taste for it, she will lap from the spoon. Then gradually move the spoon closer to the bowl of formula, eventually the spoon will be above the bowl, then slowly move the spoon down into the bowl. When you are confident that she is lapping from the bowl, start to mix a little wet food with the milk. At this point it will be more milk than meat. The meat should be in bits floating in the milk, so as the kitten laps it can’t help getting a little meat in its mouth.

Again, when the kitten is confidently lapping this meat and milk mixture, add a little more meat. Keep doing this until there is more meat than milk. At this point, the kitten should be weaned onto solids.

She’s probably very frightened and missing her mother, you just need to be as gentle and reassuring as you can be. I adopted a five week old kitten who was terrified and not weaned, but I fed her as above and she grew into a wonderful little girl.


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## FISA (Jun 29, 2019)

Okay the kitten is now gently letting me pet her and I am going to try the above methods for sure. 

That’s such useful advice. 

The breeder has given me a receipt and I managed to check the GCCF register and they are definitely on there.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

FISA said:


> Okay the kitten is now gently letting me pet her and I am going to try the above methods for sure.
> 
> That's such useful advice.
> 
> The breeder has given me a receipt and I managed to check the GCCF register and they are definitely on there.


In that case, when you receive the registration documents and you are sure the kitten has been sold too young, I would then report her to the GCCF.


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## FISA (Jun 29, 2019)

Sacremist said:


> In that case, when you receive the registration documents and you are sure the kitten has been sold too young, I would then report her to the GCCF.


Yes that's what I intend to do. 
I have a dilemma. She isn't answering my calls as she thinks I want to give the kitten back.

But now in fact I am determined to keep her and raise her as intended. BUT I do want the registration certificate. How would you go about this ?

She said let me know the cats name and she will send it across. Should I just tell her in a nice way I have decided to keep it and would she kindly send me the certificate as promised?

( and is it literally a card that I would receive? Or is an online thing ? And how can I check that my kitten is registered ?)

Apologies for all the questions I truly appreciated all your advice. You guys are truly amazing and made me feel a lot better ! And hopefully the kitty too !!


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

As far as I’m aware, it’s now a postcard style document. If not, I’m sure someone will correct me.

If she will not answer your calls, write to her to say you have decided to keep the kitten and could she send you the registration documents as soon as possible.

If you don’t get the registration documents, then you will have to write to the GCCF and report not only getting the kitten too young, but also her failure to provide the registration documents as promised.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

As @Sacremist says, it's a postcard type card (although a bit bigger) with the information I gave previously printed on:


Rufus15 said:


> ... the name and parentage of your kitten, the breeder's name and address, and the UIN number


Ring the GCCF on Monday and explain the situation, they can then advise you going forward. If you want to put in a complaint, you will have to pay (I think the fee is £145), and if it settles in your favour then you get that back.

You need to get together all of the documents she provided (receipt, contract, family tree, etc.), as well as a report from your own vet stating she is under 13 weeks at the time of sale.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I know I am going to be criticised for this post and I know i'm going to be told that it isn't helpful after the event - which would be very ironic in the circumstances.

As a BSH breeder this is the fourth time in the space of a week that I have read of this type of thing happening and it leaves me utterly exasperated. Goes without saying that the breeder's ethics are appalling. But what I can truly never understand is how the purchaser, often within 24 hours of buying their kitten, can provide a long list of everything the breeder should have done/provided and didn't. How does that happen? Why weren't they apparently aware of all these things previously? If it's so easy to gain that understanding why is it always after the event?

She is a beautiful kitten and though one cannot really judge by photos, she appears pretty healthy (more than you can say about a lot of kittens in these circumstances). My advice to the OP would be to forget chasing the breeder, take on board your own part in the matter and focus on your lovely kitten; she is now your responsibility, relying upon you to care for her in a way that the breeder you chose, didn't.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

@gskinner123 well said


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

There is no chance the 'breeder' would take her back and I have to say I would not want to return her, there is no way she would keep her with the mother, at best she would swiftly sell her on. I would forget about documentation, a reputable breeder would not behave this way so the kitten is probably not whatever she claimed. But if the breeder is a GCCF member, definitely report her. 

I'd say the kitten looks about 8 weeks and if so should be weaned. I've had a couple of non-pedigree kittens that age (I had one, on orphan, at 5 weeks - just to reassure you that it can work out, not that a pedigree should be sold under 13 weeks of course). I would book a vet appointment asap and get her health checked, the vet should be able to give you a good idea of age. She will probably need de-fleaing and worming too given the standard of the 'breeder'. Vet will be able to advise on feeding but if 8+ weeks normal kitten food should be fine. The breeder should have told you exactly what the kitten had been eating so you could continue with that (if you feed something different you risk an upset tummy). I am guessing no such info was forthcoming so I'd go with something like Felix kitten food, mine have always been okay with that.

Can I ask, where did you see the kitten? At the breeder's home? What were conditions like?


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

Just read your post @gskinner123 and I agree. Researching beforehand saves a lot of heartache.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Ottery said:


> I'd say the kitten looks about 8 weeks and if so should be weaned. I've had a couple of non-pedigree kittens that age (I had one, on orphan, at 5 weeks - just to reassure you that it can work out, not that a pedigree should be sold under 13 weeks of course).


surely that shoud read ANY kittens, not just pedigree
after all a pedigree kitten and a moggy kitten are the same species and go through the same processes when growing and maturing, one just has a label and one does not
if its recommended for one, it should be recommended for all


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

mrs phas said:


> surely that shoud read ANY kittens, not just pedigree
> after all a pedigree kitten and a moggy kitten are the same species and go through the same processes when growing and maturing, one just has a label and one does not
> if its recommended for one, it should be recommended for all


It is requirement that breeders do not rehome a kitten until 13 weeks - a week after the 12 week vaccination. When you buy a pedigree you pay a lot of money and expect them to be kept in optimum conditions, with good food, good socialisation, good healthcare. Unfortunately that isn't always the case, but that's the theory.

I have no problem with non-pedigrees being rehomed at 8 weeks. Non-pedigrees may be orphaned, or living in an unsuitable environment, and it may be better for them to be moved on to a loving home (you could probably say that of the OP's kitten too, sadly). My most recent DSH was a 7 week old orphaned kitten - there was no point the rescue centre keeping him any longer, he got more attention and better socialisation being with me.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

sounds very much a them and us, snob value attitude, to me ( a non cat owner, but learning from the decent breeders on here) I wouldve thought that orphaned/unsuitable environment/feral kittens would be more in need of staying with mum/foster/adopted mum, to learn things thought by decent breeders to be vital, than a well bred pampered kitten whose had the best start in life through the very fact its mother had the best through pregnancy and nursing
thankfully not this ped v mixed attitude amongst dog breeding ( although poor byb's, of the like of the OP speaks about, abound in all areas of animal breeding) the value of the animals might be more, monetary wise, but the attitude of, when is optimum time to rehome, is the same, byb, hobbyist ( yes i believe there is a difference) or registered breeder of excellence


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

mrs phas said:


> sounds very much a them and us, snob value attitude, to me ( a non cat owner, but learning from the decent breeders on here) I wouldve thought that orphaned/unsuitable environment/feral kittens would be more in need of staying with mum/foster/adopted mum, to learn things thought by decent breeders to be vital, than a well bred pampered kitten whose had the best start in life through the very fact its mother had the best through pregnancy and nursing
> thankfully not this ped v mixed attitude amongst dog breeding ( although poor byb's, of the like of the OP speaks about, abound in all areas of animal breeding) the value of the animals might be more, monetary wise, but the attitude of, when is optimum time to rehome, is the same, byb, hobbyist ( yes i believe there is a difference) or registered breeder of excellence


You're correct, it's better for ferals, orphans, etc., to stay with foster mums and full or foster siblings. A kitten on its own with humans will get far less socialisation than with kittens or adult cats


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## Lorraine Storey (Jun 7, 2019)

FISA said:


> We just bought a BSH kitten 2 days ago from a breeder who seemed very genuine as seems to advertise often.
> 
> Our kitten is gffc registered. After we purchased the kitten I went home I was having doubts already. The breeder seemed to force us to take the kitten. She wasn't interested in ya or our background at all!
> 
> ...





FISA said:


> We just bought a BSH kitten 2 days ago from a breeder who seemed very genuine as seems to advertise often.
> 
> Our kitten is gffc registered. After we purchased the kitten I went home I was having doubts already. The breeder seemed to force us to take the kitten. She wasn't interested in ya or our background at all!
> 
> ...


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## Lorraine Storey (Jun 7, 2019)

Theres too much of that sort of thing going on you need to report her to trading standards and gccf and RSPCA your kitten should be at least 13 weeks I've just had a traumatic time with my blue she went to stud and was only there 2 days and she asked me to pick her up saying she was too vocal shes not pregnant and shes been to vets 3 times as she was totally emaciated and she had a claw missing the whole thing has really upset me and my baby xxx


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

mrs phas said:


> sounds very much a them and us, snob value attitude, to me ( a non cat owner, but learning from the decent breeders on here) I wouldve thought that orphaned/unsuitable environment/feral kittens would be more in need of staying with mum/foster/adopted mum, to learn things thought by decent breeders to be vital, than a well bred pampered kitten whose had the best start in life through the very fact its mother had the best through pregnancy and nursing
> thankfully not this ped v mixed attitude amongst dog breeding ( although poor byb's, of the like of the OP speaks about, abound in all areas of animal breeding) the value of the animals might be more, monetary wise, but the attitude of, when is optimum time to rehome, is the same, byb, hobbyist ( yes i believe there is a difference) or registered breeder of excellence


An orphaned kitten cannot, be definition, stay with its mother. The 'foster mother' is usually just a human being like you and I. A rescue centre wouldn't let an orphaned kitten go early to a novice owner, but an experienced cat owner will have no problem socialising an 8 week old kitten - and they may well also have another kitten and/or older cats to mix with and learn from. The right owner will be able to spend a lot more time and energy on the kitten than the hard-pressed staff in a rescue centre.

I've had mixed experience of how long pedigree kittens stay with their mothers. Some stayed with the mother till the day I collected them. Some were separated earlier, and by the time the kittens were 10 weeks old, they were in the sibling group but the mothers spent most of their time back with the other queens. Some of my loveliest kittens came from the latter situation.

OP, I hope it's going okay with your kitten and you've been able to make a vet appointment.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Ottery said:


> A rescue centre wouldn't let an orphaned kitten go early to a novice owner


Unfortunately many do, which is part of the issue. A orphaned kitten can often be found a feline foster mum, it's not really an excuse


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Ottery said:


> An orphaned kitten cannot, be definition, stay with its mother. The 'foster mother' is usually just a human being like you and I.


I would hope (an overused word I know) that most rescues would at least try to foster/adopt a needy kitten onto an already lactating CAT, before resorting to humans
Humans, however well meaning and experienced are not cats, and, simply cannot give a kitten what it needs to be well adjusted and happy to socialise, like another cat can (please don't think I'm disrespecting anyone who does hand rear, I know you do the utmost and invest a lot, for those little scraps of animals)
One only has to look at all the stories, regarding young kittens that have needed to be hand reared, where the kitten has imprinted (may not be the right word) onto the human, and, later, doesnt even realise its a cat, or, sadly, simply has faded away, after a few weeks, despite everything being done impeccably.

I'm sorry but I will never be convinced that 'because its a pedigree'
Is a reason to keep deliberately bred kittens, longer than moggies


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## FISA (Jun 29, 2019)

Hi guys 

Many many thanks for all your responses and feedback. 

So it’s day three. Yesterday I took her to the vets. He said she was a bit underweight and thinks she is about 8 weeks old. 

Kitty had her jab and rested. However she hasn’t been vocal and is getting used to the place and is starting to come out from her hiding place. 

She’s also managed to start eating so it’s all good news on that front !! I’m feeling a lot more relieved now. I just feel very sorry for her. 

Anyway on a side note I rang the breeder off another number and they answered. I told them that if I didn’t receive the gccf certificate within the next two days in the poet I would threaten to turn up at their place with kitty in hand ( obv I wasn’t going to do this). 

They have since posted a screen shot that the litter had been registered and that they would receive the certificates within 5-7 days. Then I think this will get posted to me. (It had the name we chose for the kitty on there alongside 6 other kittens)

Does this sound about right the process? And would the cert need to be registered in my name once I get it?


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Yes that's the right process.

Yes, you'll need to transfer the kitten into your name either by post or online


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

FISA said:


> <snip>
> 
> They have since posted a screen shot that the litter had been registered and that they would receive the certificates within 5-7 days. Then I think this will get posted to me. (It had the name we chose for the kitty on there alongside 6 other kittens)
> 
> Does this sound about right the process? And would the cert need to be registered in my name once I get it?


Is there a date showing when they registered the kittens? It is now usually less than a week from registering online to receiving the certificates.


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## FISA (Jun 29, 2019)

OrientalSlave said:


> Is there a date showing when they registered the kittens? It is now usually less than a week from registering online to receiving the certificates.


No dates can be seen from what they sent me. But I think she did it yesterday after I threatened to return kitten in hand and demand certificate!

I don't understand why they waited so long to register the kitten?

I only got confused as others here say that we should have a certificate on collection of the kitten but does that mean a name would already be registered for it in case you wanted to choose your own ?

In any way I have my fingers crossed that I receive it in the post.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

FISA said:


> No dates can be seen from what they sent me. But I think she did it yesterday after I threatened to return kitten in hand and demand certificate!
> 
> I don't understand why they waited so long to register the kitten?
> 
> ...


A lot of breeders I've met like to choose names for the kittens. You usually choose the pet name.

For instance, one of my Birmans was registered as Casagatini Chanson D'amour named by the breeder, but his pet name was Jasper named by me.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

I should add, however, two of my Birmans were named by me on their registration documents, but the breeders asked me what I wanted long before collecting the kittens so when I went to collect the registration documents were given to me along with my kitten.


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## FISA (Jun 29, 2019)

Ok so I’m relieved that it sounds like at least I have or will have GFFC certificates. 

On another note, the GFFC have sent me a form and told me that I can complain once I have sorted the kitten out and pay £15 for a breeder selling me an unwell / unvaccinated kitten. Will this cover also the fact the kitten is under 12 weeks old too? 

Am reluctant to do anything until at least I have the certificate in my hands.

Also finally, now a lot of things do make sense to me and yes I know some of you will say I should have been more aware but when we went to see the kittens there was no cats or signs of cats at all in the house. Not even a hair. She went out of the room and into the garden to get the kittens. I asked to see father and she was reluctant. I insisted and she showed me and apologised about his smell. 


As we left I noticed a big shed type structure around the back. And a lot of you have said this was probably a kitten farm. I feel truly aweful and duped as she made it looked like on the adverts and at home that they was all family pets.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Sacremist said:


> A lot of breeders I've met like to choose names for the kittens. You usually choose the pet name.
> 
> For instance, one of my Birmans was registered as Casagatini Chanson D'amour named by the breeder, but his pet name was Jasper named by me.





Sacremist said:


> I should add, however, two of my Birmans were named by me on their registration documents, but the breeders asked me what I wanted long before collecting the kittens so when I went to collect the registration documents were given to me along with my kitten.


Perfect summary 



FISA said:


> Will this cover also the fact the kitten is under 12 weeks old too?


No, it won't cover the kitten being under 12 weeks. The £15 is for illness only


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

mrs phas said:


> I'm sorry but I will never be convinced that 'because its a pedigree'
> Is a reason to keep deliberately bred kittens, longer than moggies


I don't disagree with you. I was explaining the practicalities, having worked in cat rescue. Breeders have time and money to provide ideal conditions - rescue centres have less of both and can rarely provide 'ideal' so have to settle for good enough.


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

FISA said:


> Ok so I'm relieved that it sounds like at least I have or will have GFFC certificates.
> 
> On another note, the GFFC have sent me a form and told me that I can complain once I have sorted the kitten out and pay £15 for a breeder selling me an unwell / unvaccinated kitten. Will this cover also the fact the kitten is under 12 weeks old too?
> 
> ...


Oh dear, yes it does sound like a kitten farm. 
I had a similar experience with one breeder I visited 6 years ago - she was registered, showed her cats, well known by other breeders. The stench from the stud pens in the garden was atrocious, you could smell it out in the street. The only cats I saw in the house were mangy. We were shut in the lounge and after a short interval the two kittens (about 8 weeks old) were brought to us - I assume from upstairs, but who knows. We did not meet the mother (absolute red flag, no explanation). The kittens promptly hid under the sofa and refused to come out. We said no thanks - but we knew this felt all wrong, because we had already had quite a few Burmese kittens. It should be a lovely positive experience to meet the kittens and the breeders' other cats.

I'm pleased to hear your kitten is settling in, despite the bad start. She should be fine.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

A friend of mine once went to a breeder to buy an Asian kitten. The breeder directed her to an airing cupboard. When she opened the door, there were 40 kittens inside; she was asked which kitten do you want. Her kittens were registered with and shown through the GCCF. Don’t get me wrong, they were all healthy. 

When my friend asked why she kept them in the airing cupboard, she was told the property was rented and the landlord thought she had only 6 cats, because he sometimes showed up out of the blue, she had to hide the kittens in the airing cupboard and many of her adults were hidden too, because she had many many more than 6. 

She was very well known on the show circuit and her cats did extremely well at shows, but she was a prolific breeder and I’m sure many, after seeing her set up, might think she was running a kitten farm.


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

@Sacremist Some breeders I've visited have had cramped (but fine) conditions. But 40 kittens in an airing cupboard... that made my jaw drop.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Ottery said:


> @Sacremist Some breeders I've visited have had cramped (but fine) conditions. But 40 kittens in an airing cupboard... that made my jaw drop.


As it did with me and my friend. I didn't personally see it, but my friend isn't prone to exaggeration and she was actually told, there were 40 kittens. The woman brought them out of the cupboard on rotation as each kitten had an identifying collar. These were all weaned kittens; goodness knows how many more were younger and still with mum, but she always managed to find homes apparently.

When she showed, she often had 6 or more showing at the same time. I'm going back a few years and she was getting on a bit then, so she may not be showing now or even alive.


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## Ottery (Jun 14, 2019)

@Sacremist It does show that some supposedly reputable breeders do not provide anywhere near optimum conditions. I hope they had a chance to run and play but the fact they were still shut in there when a prospective owner viewed doesn't really fill you with confidence - as you say, that breeder was certainly 'prolific'.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

My friend even noticed the woman kept ether upstairs that she got off her son, apparently, I don’t even want to think what that was for.


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