# So furious



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

a friend of mine, who is wheelchair bound, was walking his very well trained lab this morning when a cocker (he thinks) that was off leash came flying over and went for his dog. I saw a photo of the result, she had a torn ear, puncture wounds on her face and blood down her neck. Poor little girl. The owner's response - I can't help what my dog does when it's off leash. 

My friend is ex army, so I think the guy is extremely lucky that he's confined to a wheelchair. He has contacted the police, but I told him to contact the dog warden as well


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

That is just awful and what a moronic owner to come out with that sort reply. Hope something comes of this as the owner should be responsible for his dog on and off the lead now, dangerously out of control in a public place comes to mind


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Oh that's dreadful I do hope the dog was reported and the Police can find the owner that's a dangerous situation especially for someone not able to defend his poor dog Hope both the owners and the dog are ok


----------



## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

MiffyMoo said:


> a friend of mine, who is wheelchair bound, was walking his very well trained lab this morning when a cocker (he thinks) that was off leash came flying over and went for his dog. I saw a photo of the result, she had a torn ear, puncture wounds on her face and blood down her neck. Poor little girl. The owner's response - I can't help what my dog does when it's off leash.
> 
> My friend is ex army, so I think the guy is extremely lucky that he's confined to a wheelchair. He has contacted the police, but I told him to contact the dog warden as well


:Jawdrop What a stupid response from the cockers owner! 
Hope the poor girl heals quickly and she doesn't end up fearful.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

It really is time that some of these owners of out of control dogs were prosecuted


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Hope your friend's dog is OK and went to the vet for those puncture wounds. If the poor lab was actually an assistance dog then the other dog owner could be in serious trouble

"On 13th March 2014 the Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 received Royal Assent[1]. This Act makes significant amendments to the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, in particular with regard to the law surrounding dog attacks on assistance dogs.

Under the new law, if a dog is dangerously out of control anywhere in England and Wales (whether or not a public place) and *it injures an assistance dog, the owner of the dog will be guilty of an aggravated offence.* The amendments to the Dangerous Dogs Act include heavy penalties for such aggravated offences. In the case of assistance dogs being injured, the attacker's owner could receive up to three years in prison, or a fine, or both."


----------



## Anneboxermad (Dec 27, 2015)

Hope he heals quick. What a stupid think to say his dog so should be under control


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

shirleystarr said:


> Oh that's dreadful I do hope the dog was reported and the Police can find the owner that's a dangerous situation especially for someone not able to defend his poor dog Hope both the owners and the dog are ok


It seems he walks in the same area all the time, so the police should be able to find him easily enough


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Animallover26 said:


> :Jawdrop What a stupid response from the cockers owner!
> Hope the poor girl heals quickly and she doesn't end up fearful.


Yes, that is what we're worried about as well.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Hope your friend's dog is OK and went to the vet for those puncture wounds. If the poor lab was actually an assistance dog then the other dog owner could be in serious trouble
> 
> "On 13th March 2014 the Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 received Royal Assent[1]. This Act makes significant amendments to the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, in particular with regard to the law surrounding dog attacks on assistance dogs.
> 
> Under the new law, if a dog is dangerously out of control anywhere in England and Wales (whether or not a public place) and *it injures an assistance dog, the owner of the dog will be guilty of an aggravated offence.* The amendments to the Dangerous Dogs Act include heavy penalties for such aggravated offences. In the case of assistance dogs being injured, the attacker's owner could receive up to three years in prison, or a fine, or both."


Yes, the poor little thing had to have stitches. I'm going to send him the law that you stated. I'm not sure she's an assistance dog, per se, as he only got her as a companion. Do they have to have special accreditation to be classed as assistance?


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> a friend of mine, who is wheelchair bound, was walking his very well trained lab this morning when a cocker (he thinks) that was off leash came flying over and went for his dog. I saw a photo of the result, she had a torn ear, puncture wounds on her face and blood down her neck. Poor little girl. The owner's response - I can't help what my dog does when it's off leash.
> 
> My friend is ex army, so I think the guy is extremely lucky that he's confined to a wheelchair. He has contacted the police, but I told him to contact the dog warden as well


I guess that might be related to my responses in another thread.

The owner *can *do something about what his dog does off the lead. If he can't or doesn't he shouldn't have a dog in the first place.
I'm sorry about what happened to your friend's dog.


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

If the owner can't control what his dog does off lead....then why is his dog off-lead *face palm*

I hope your friend and his pooch are ok and there aren't any long-term repercussions, mentally or physically. I also hope the police or dog warden get involved; dog on dog attacks mean you can only take them to civil court as dogs are considered property in this instance. But as has already been pointed out, if they're an assistance dog it's a different story. He should at least try and get the vet fees refunded from the irresponsible owner!

Off lead dogs are a pet peeve of mine...not even them really, the owners. Fidget (and sometimes Sara) needs a lot of space due to his reactivity, and even when I've gone above and beyond trying to move well away from other dogs, we've had several off-lead dogs run up to him. IMO, if you can't stop your dog from running up to other dogs (even if they "only want to say hi" or "are really friendly") then you should put them on a lead around other dogs, or keep their off-lead romps to safer areas.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Kimmikins said:


> Off lead dogs are a pet peeve of mine...not even them really, the owners. Fidget (and sometimes Sara) needs a lot of space due to his reactivity, and even when I've gone above and beyond trying to move well away from other dogs, we've had several off-lead dogs run up to him. IMO, if you can't stop your dog from running up to other dogs (even if they "only want to say hi" or "are really friendly") then you should put them on a lead around other dogs, or keep their off-lead romps to safer areas.


That doesn't make a lot of sense.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Besoeker said:


> That doesn't make a lot of sense.


Yes it does. It makes perfect sense


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> That doesn't make a lot of sense.


Which part confused you, and I'll be happy to clarify.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> Yes it does. It makes perfect sense


OK. We take our dog to a safe place as do other owners. 
How can they romp around on the lead?
Ours gallops around with others that are also off the lead. From Milly, a Yorkie to, Chai an Alsation.
And a lot of little poodles - I have posted the pic.
And a St Bernard. That pic has also been posted.

So how would those romps have been possible with the dog on a lead? 
No, it doesn't make sense at all.


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> OK. We take our dog to a safe place as do other owners.
> How can they romp around on the lead?
> Ours gallops around with others that are also off the lead. From Milly, a Yorkie to, Chai an Alsation.
> And a lot of little poodles - I have posted the pic.
> ...


My dog doesn't romp with other dogs. He is reactive. To try and expect him to romp with other dogs would be, quite frankly, ridiculous. For romping we hire his behaviourist's enclosed and secure field. For daily walks he stays on a lead. Because it is safe for him, and for other dogs.

If your dog is off-lead in a place other owners use to walk their dogs on lead....it is not a safe space. If I lived in your area and I knew your dog was off-lead with no consideration from you with regards to my dogs, I would avoid you like the plague. Or, if I was feeling really stubborn about it, I'd report you to the dog warden if your dog ran up to me and mine, for having an out of control dog in a public place. But I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope it's a case of you needing to learn about the challenges that reactive dogs face.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Terrifying


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> Yes it does. It makes perfect sense


This!

I have a 7month old BC who's recall is very patchy. As such I go to empty fields for off lead because even though "he's friendly" and "he wants to play" the other dog may not!

Don't get me wrong, I've made mistakes and misjudged how empty a field is but I've always apologised regardless of the other dogs (and owners) temperament and tried to recall before he's reached the other party.

The rest of the time he's on lead because it means I'm (for the most part) in control and far less likely to spoil anyone else's day.

Big hugs to the lab and owner. I hope.something is done about this as its appalling that the cockers owner can think he can get away with such a ridiculous response!

ETA: I've also apologised to someone when both dogs are on lead and the other dog reacted... Terribly British lol :Facepalm


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Kimmikins said:


> If I lived in your area and I knew your dog was off-lead with no consideration from you with regards to my dogs, I would avoid you like the plague. Or, if I was feeling really stubborn about it, I'd report you to the dog warden if your dog ran up to me and mine, for having an out of control dog in a public place. But I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope it's a case of you needing to learn about the challenges that reactive dogs face.


Now you are being ridicolous.
I don't have an out of cotrol dog. That's exactly why doesn't need to be on a lead.
If yours was in your control, you wouldn't need to have him on a lead, would you?
But, by all means, report me. 
We walk in Houghton Hall Park. 
Go for it. Get me by the juglar.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

@Besoeker, I can't work out what it is your're not understanding. @Kimmikins has made it perfectly clear in her post. Her dog doesn't like other dogs very much and gets no pleasure in playing with them, therefore he is kept on a lead when walked in areas that are public, not only for the other dogs safety, but so that he doesn't have to confront other dogs. Basically he likes to be left alone. Sadly some dog owners don't seem to know that not all dogs want to say 'hi' or play with other dogs, either they are ignorant of the fact not all dogs are not the same as theirs or don't care what their hound gets up to. I hope you are in the former category.

Over the last thirty years I've had four dogs all of the same breed, a breed that is known to be affable and friendly. However one of them wasn't friendly and consequently she was kept on the lead unless I could see very clearly no one was about. Nurture or nature? My assumptions are nature as they were all raised and trained the same way. The other three were very friendly and liked nothing more then to play with other dogs, especially the one I have now. However if I see someone with a dog on the lead, then she goes on the lead. My thoughts are that there must be a very good reason that dog is on a lead and I don't want to upset things by allowing my dog to go up to them. Besides which, I don't want my dog to assume that every dog she meets she has to go and say Hi to or initiate a play as much as she would like to. 
I also put her on a lead if a small dog is coming our way, or children or some elderly people. She's a large dog and as friendly as she is, she may scare the little dog or children, or knock awkwardly into the elderly person maybe causing them to fall. I don't want any of that on my conscience.


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

I won't hijack this thread any further, but I do suggest you look up the law regarding out of control dogs. It's about how the person your dog approaches interprets the interaction; if they feel they could come to harm, or come to harm having to separate your dog, then your dog is out of control.

My dog is in control because he's on a lead. If I could let him off a lead, but saw a dog on-lead, I would put him back on his lead. That is demonstrating responsible and considerate dog walking etiquette.

If you wish to discuss this further, please feel free pm me.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Besoeker said:


> OK. We take our dog to a safe place as do other owners.
> How can they romp around on the lead?
> Ours gallops around with others that are also off the lead. From Milly, a Yorkie to, Chai an Alsation.
> And a lot of little poodles - I have posted the pic.
> ...


That is totally different. Each owner knows their dog and knows if it is happy to romp with other dogs or not. If it is a reactive dog then it makes perfect sense that the owner wouldn't then take their dog to a dog park where other dogs can be safely let off lead. But, it is not unreasonable to expect off lead dogs in a public park to be under control.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Rach&Miko said:


> This!
> 
> I have a 7month old BC who's recall is very patchy. As such I go to empty fields for off lead because even though "he's friendly" and "he wants to play" the other dog may not!
> 
> ...


I'm like that too! I find myself apologising for everything, even when it's their fault. Well, either that or telling them off...


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Besoeker said:


> Now you are being ridicolous.
> I don't have an out of cotrol dog. That's exactly why doesn't need to be on a lead.
> If yours was in your control, you wouldn't need to have him on a lead, would you?
> But, by all means, report me.
> ...


Oh good grief, what part of reactive don't you understand? Don't come on here and judge people for trying to keep their dogs safe and in control because you clearly have zero idea of what a responsible owner is.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Siskin said:


> @Besoeker, I can't work out what it is your're not understanding.
> 
> 
> > No you can't becasuse you robustly refuse to understand or accept anything I have posted.
> ...


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> Oh good grief, what part of reactive don't you understand? Don't come on here and judge people for trying to keep their dogs safe and in control because you clearly have zero idea of what a responsible owner is.


And you are wrong about that too.


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

You're the one refusing to understand and accept what is being said. You demonstrate through your replies that you have absolutely no idea about reactivity in dogs...either that, or you understand but simply don't care. I hope it's the former!

Being able to have your dog off lead doesn't make you a responsible owner; it doesn't make you an irresponsible one either, as long as you can control it. Being able to make informed decisions about when to put your dog back on a lead (or recall it and keep it close) is part of being a responsible owner.


----------



## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Sorry OP that your thread has been hijacked, I hope your friends dog is ok.

@Besoeker I think what you are missing is this thing called common courtesy, that if you see someone with a dog on a lead, you either call you dog and keep it near you under control or you put it on a lead, not everybody wants a strange dog coming to greet their dog, but if a dog is on a lead then take it upon yourself to do a good kind nice thing and don't allow your dog to run up too it, it's not hard to grasp but then I have a feeling you are just a wee bit trolly or just incredibly stupid.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

MontyMaude said:


> Sorry OP that your thread has been hijacked, I hope your friends dog is ok.
> 
> @Besoeker I think what you are missing is this thing called common courtesy, that if you see someone with a dog on a lead, you either call you dog and keep it near you under control or you put it on a lead, not everybody wants a strange dog coming to greet their dog, but if a dog is on a lead then take it upon yourself to do a good kind nice thing and don't allow your dog to run up too it, it's not hard to grasp but then I have a feeling you are just a wee bit trolly or just incredibly stupid.


I'm afraid I think I know the answer. Where I live there are so many people who think that my dogs are problematic as they need to be taken off path when another dog comes past, but believe their dog is absolutely fine as it "just wants to play". At the end of the day, it's the owners at fault, not the dogs. The dogs are only doing what they have been allowed to do since they were puppies. Unfortunately I don't think either of mine were socialised, so I'm slowly training them how to behave when on lead. My ultimate goal is to make them dog neutral. Funnily enough, at Doggy day care they don't really care to play with most of the dogs and will simply ignore any demanding play when they don't want to


----------



## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

MiffyMoo said:


> I'm afraid I think I know the answer. Where I live there are so many people who think that my dogs are problematic as they need to be taken off path when another dog comes past, but believe their dog is absolutely fine as it "just wants to play". At the end of the day, it's the owners at fault, not the dogs. The dogs are only doing what they have been allowed to do since they were puppies. Unfortunately I don't think either of mine were socialised, so I'm slowly training them how to behave when on lead. My ultimate goal is to make them dog neutral. Funnily enough, at Doggy day care they don't really care to play with most of the dogs and will simply ignore any demanding play when they don't want to


I always try and put my two on a lead or walk away from dogs on leads, but not many people seem to do the same, my two are pretty good with other dogs in that they greet have a sniff and walk on, Hilde 95% of the time ignores other dogs as she's not keen on other dogs as she has been barrelled over too many times by over enthusiastic bigger dogs but I get so annoyed when people can see her all submissive on the floor whilst their big dogs just keep running over the top of her and them not calling their dogs away grrrrr most of the time I ignore it and just seethe inside.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Kimmikins said:


> Being able to make informed decisions about when to put your dog back on a lead (or recall it and keep it close) is part of being a responsible owner.


Then, by yiur own criteria, I am a responsible owner.


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> Then, by yiur own criteria, I am a responsible owner.


If you can keep your dog close, and prevent it from approaching on-lead dogs, then yes I'd consider you responsible.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

[QUOTE="MontyMaude, post: 1064511244, member: 1316749"I] think what you are missing is this thing called common courtesy, that if you see someone with a dog on a lead, you either call you dog and keep it near you under control or you put it on a lead, not everybody wants a strange dog coming to greet their dog, but if a dog is on a lead then take it upon yourself to do a good kind nice thing and don't allow your dog to run up too it, it's not hard to grasp but then I have a feeling you are just a wee bit trolly or just incredibly stupid.[/QUOTE]

And what you seemed to have missed, intentionally or otherwise it that my dog comes back when called. If he needs to be on a lead, he is on a lead. If other owners or dogs don't want him around he isn't around.
Is that *so *difficult to comprehend?

I have just come back from my latest walk. He and a cockapoodle had a nice gallop around. Good exercise that neither would have had were they stuck on a lead. Why would anyone deny their dog that freedom?

And when he needs to be on the lead......










He behaves wonderfully as this pic with my eight year old grand girl shows.

That sort of behaviour didn't happen by accident.


----------



## Jackien4 (May 16, 2015)

Besoeker said:


> Then, by yiur own criteria, I am a responsible owner.


Take no notice everyone he is a 111 year old male having a laugh . He is winding you up lol


----------



## ZiggyB (Mar 5, 2016)

Oh no, how awful, hope both owner and doggy are ok. It's a frightening thought that there are owners like this out there :s

When my son was young we went for a walk near the river when along came a big bouncy pup, the owner was not in sight and the dog ran at my son and knocked him clean over, hitting his head on the concrete. He was screaming terrified. I picked him up when along came the owner who said...'oh don't worry, he's friendly'...argh!!! He may have came in a friendly I want to play/say hi kind of way but he wasn't effing safe and my child got hurt and a fear of dogs


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ZiggyB said:


> Oh no, how awful, hope both owner and doggy are ok. It's a frightening thought that there are owners like this out there :s


I agree.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Ah, it's the weekend and the silly kiddies are off school and looking for an argument on a grown up forum :Troll

Back to the OP, @MiffyMoo that's awful! Fingers crossed your friend and his dog are ok. I really hope the police catch up with the idiot and hold them responsible and make them realise they should have control of their dog whether it's on a lead or not.


----------



## Anneboxermad (Dec 27, 2015)

When I take ziggy for a walk if I see another dog on the lead I will put him on the lead. If the other dog owners then says it is ok for them to play I then let him of, if I'm walking on the pavement and I can see that another dog is not happy I will put ziggy on the other side of me and have a treat in my hand to get him to watch me so he isn't jumping around to make the other dog react. It's called manners


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> Ours gallops around with others that are also off the lead.


Just because a dog is fine off lead doesn't mean he/she wants to romp around with other dogs either.
I have two dogs who are perfectly fine off leash, but they do not get to interact with random dogs I don't know. If a dog approaches, I call mine away and if the dog continues to approach I will shoo it off. 
It's just plain rude to expect that if another dog is off leash he will want to interact with yours.

@MiffyMoo sorry about your friend's dog. Hopefully she heals up well both physically and mentally. Glad to hear the police have been contacted and the dog warden will as well.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> J
> It's just plain rude to expect that if another dog is off leash he will want to interact with yours.[/quotr]
> I agree. I have no such expectations.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Just because a dog is fine off lead doesn't mean he/she wants to romp around with other dogs either.
> 
> 
> > I have no disagreement with that.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Nettles said:


> Ah, it's the weekend and the silly kiddies are off school and looking for an argument on a grown up forum :Troll


They might be - but according to some on this forum I'm 111 years old........so exempt from that.........


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Besoeker said:


> They might be - but according to some on this forum I'm 111 years old........so exempt from that.........


Trip trap.. trip trap


----------



## Anneboxermad (Dec 27, 2015)

Another thing I can't bear is when children come running up to him kiss hug him. Only today I said to a parent when my dog is bigger will you be so keen to let your child do that, to which she repiled oh course not I would expect her to ask to touch big dogs, to which I said how do you know my dog is friendly, she said I'm assuming as you have children with you he is!!!!! I at this point shook my head moved away


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> I have no disagreement with that.


Your posts say otherwise.

Look, if your posts are not portraying what you meant, just own it, say "that's not what I meant" and move on. But your smug "my dog didn't get that way by accident" attitude, and snide comments about people who responsibly keep their dogs on lead are not going to be well received.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Your posts say otherwise.
> 
> Look, if your posts are not portraying what you meant, just own it, say "that's not what I meant" and move on. But your smug "my dog didn't get that way by accident" attitude, and snide comments about people who responsibly keep their dogs on lead are not going to be well received.


Can we just deal with facts rather than making personal deprecating comments?


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> Can we just deal with facts rather than making personal deprecating comments?


Facts: What you yourself have posted. And that's just on this thread...



Besoeker said:


> If yours was in your control, you wouldn't need to have him on a lead, would you?





Besoeker said:


> That sort of behaviour didn't happen by accident.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

How to make friends and influence people ......


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Poor girl! I hope she's fine very soon and doesn't become scared of other dogs. This is why I like going to quiet places and keep to an area I can check cos I know one of mine would hate other dogs bouncing up to him, plus I train when out and find it very rude of others to allow their dog to interrupt.



Besoeker said:


> But, by all means, report me. Get me by the juglar.


Drama llama, you only on here for a fight?


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

What a terrible thing. Your friend must have felt so helpless and frustrated. I hope the other owner and dog can be found. He needs to be held accountable. Not to mention pay the vet bills.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Drama llama, you only on here for a fight?[/QUOTE]

Surely you can't have missed this?

"Or, if I was feeling really stubborn about it, I'd report you to the dog warden….."
That's what I was responding to.

So who was turning it into a fight?


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Just wondering how your friend and the poor dog is doing today


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

shirleystarr said:


> Just wondering how your friend and the poor dog is doing today


Not heard anything yet, so they're either having a lie in or are off out and about


----------



## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

MiffyMoo said:


> Not heard anything yet, so they're either having a lie in or are off out and about


Thanks when you hear from them could you let us know please


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

shirleystarr said:


> Thanks when you hear from them could you let us know please


For sure


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Besoeker said:


> So who was turning it into a fight?


You!
Because you seemed to be confused about why others should put their dogs on leash if they can not stop them running up to others without the OK from both owners...Maybe reread the thread so you can see where your knickers started to become twisted 

To the OP...this is why I don't walk in nice public areas. Thai has come on in leaps and bounds, however it just isn't fair on him to *have* to cope with all and sundry sticking their noses where they aren't wanted...We shouldn't have too, but it is the easiest and stress free option


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> Drama llama, you only on here for a fight?


Surely you can't have missed this?

"Or, if I was feeling really stubborn about it, I'd report you to the dog warden….."
That's what I was responding to.

So who was turning it into a fight?[/QUOTE]

I wasn't turning anything into a fight. I was stating what I would do if I continually came across you and your off-lead dog if I felt uncomfortable with the situation and you refused to keep your dog under control. Trying to educate you about what other people have the right to do does not a fight make.


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> Not heard anything yet, so they're either having a lie in or are off out and about


Both excellent choices for a Sunday morning


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

MiffyMoo said:


> a friend of mine, who is wheelchair bound, was walking his very well trained lab this morning when a cocker (he thinks) that was off leash came flying over and went for his dog. I saw a photo of the result, she had a torn ear, puncture wounds on her face and blood down her neck. Poor little girl. The owner's response - I can't help what my dog does when it's off leash.
> 
> My friend is ex army, so I think the guy is extremely lucky that he's confined to a wheelchair. He has contacted the police, but I told him to contact the dog warden as well


That is just disgusting and despicable behaviour, to say something like that totally irresponsible. He cant help what his dog does when off leash, if its a problem then it shouldn't even be off leash in the first place. No responsibility at all and obviously just doesn't care.. I too would get him to report it to the dog warden as well, and either way I hope his found and answers for whats been allowed to happen by him and his irresponsibility.

I do hope the dog heals well and will be OK and your friend is OK too, its horrible when a dog attack happens and does shake you up.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Ah poor dog and so upsetting for his owner . What a dick the cocker's owner is . I hope they can find him so he pays the vet's bill.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Kimmikins said:


> I wasn't turning anything into a fight. I was stating what I would do if I continually came across you and your off-lead dog if I felt uncomfortable with the situation and you refused to keep your dog under control.


My dog is under control otherwise he would be on a lead as he is in places he or others might be at risk or where/when a lead is mandatory.



Kimmikins said:


> Trying to educate you about what other people have the right to do does not a fight make.


That is not a right I have refuted. I know if someone wants to keep their dog on a lead they have the right to do that. As do I.

Might I suggest that your efforts at educating might be better directed at someone who doesn't?


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

DFTT!!!!!!


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

@Besoeker may I ask what point you are trying to make?


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

lorilu said:


> DFTT!!!!!!


I don't think @Besoeker is a troll. Misguided perhaps, but not a troll.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

ouesi said:


> I don't think @Besoeker is a troll. Misguided perhaps, but not a troll.


A troll is not just someone who posts horrible things to get pet lovers all in an uproar. A troll is also anyone who continues to make posts designed to create or keep an argument going, even when there is nothing more to be said on the topic.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

ouesi said:


> @Besoeker may I ask what point you are trying to make?


Yeah I'm a bit confused on that tbh...


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

lorilu said:


> A troll is not just someone who posts horrible things to get pet lovers all in an uproar. A troll is also anyone who continues to make posts designed to create or keep an argument going, even when there is nothing more to be said on the topic.


Thats most of us then


----------



## Wee T (Dec 6, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> a friend of mine, who is wheelchair bound, was walking his very well trained lab this morning when a cocker (he thinks) that was off leash came flying over and went for his dog. I saw a photo of the result, she had a torn ear, puncture wounds on her face and blood down her neck. Poor little girl. The owner's response - I can't help what my dog does when it's off leash.
> 
> My friend is ex army, so I think the guy is extremely lucky that he's confined to a wheelchair. He has contacted the police, but I told him to contact the dog warden as well


That is shocking. I really hope they track that owner down. Stupid stupid man. He's putting not only other dogs in a vulnerable position but his own.

Fed up with idiot owners thinking that dogs must be off lead regardless of training and behaviour and put whatever they get up to off lead down to 'just being a dog'. No, you're just being a gobshite.

That poor dog. Hope he heals quickly and there's no fear issues. Hugs to your friend.



Kimmikins said:


> If the owner can't control what his dog does off lead....then why is his dog off-lead *face palm*
> 
> I hope your friend and his pooch are ok and there aren't any long-term repercussions, mentally or physically. I also hope the police or dog warden get involved; dog on dog attacks mean you can only take them to civil court as dogs are considered property in this instance. But as has already been pointed out, if they're an assistance dog it's a different story. He should at least try and get the vet fees refunded from the irresponsible owner!
> 
> Off lead dogs are a pet peeve of mine...not even them really, the owners. Fidget (and sometimes Sara) needs a lot of space due to his reactivity, and even when I've gone above and beyond trying to move well away from other dogs, we've had several off-lead dogs run up to him. IMO, if you can't stop your dog from running up to other dogs (even if they "only want to say hi" or "are really friendly") then you should put them on a lead around other dogs, or keep their off-lead romps to safer areas.


Oh I am completely with you on this. Makes perfect sense.

'Friendly' off lead dogs whose owners don't realise that they are letting their dog be an ill-mannered space invader are the bain of our walks.

Don't get me wrong, I accept it as part and parcel of walks now - I'm not as bitter as I sound...We suck it up and get on with it - but it does set Willow back with her reactivity training.

Some people are clueless. I've seen you approach, I've gone way off path, I'm stumbling about on uneven ground, getting torn to shreds on brambles. I look a bit doolally sprackling about over here. Do you think anyone would *choose* to be over here? Really? Get a clue and call your dog away, you donut.

Even calling over to them while heading off path. Can you call your dog away please. Oh she's friendly. Well, that's just swell but if yours continues to barrel toward mine then mine is going to do a fantastic impression of a really not friendly one.

And then I suspect they walk on feeling smug that, by comparison to your 'bad dog', they've done a super job with theirs. The sods. 

The irony is, if I let Willow off lead there would be no reactivity. She'd look like most of the dogs there. Friendly, wanting to play. Problem is she wants to approach every dog she sees and would blow recall and head off to play with all and sundry and I don't want her to be THAT 'friendly' dog. Its rude. Its not ok and it's potentially very dangerous.

So we'll carry on with the training for onlead reactivity, work around the friendly muggers and secretly flip the bird to their feckless owners behind their back. :Finger :Mooning :Angelic


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

Wee T said:


> That is shocking. I really hope they track that owner down. Stupid stupid man. He's putting not only other dogs in a vulnerable position but his own.
> 
> Fed up with idiot owners thinking that dogs must be off lead regardless of training and behaviour and put whatever they get up to off lead down to 'just being a dog'. No, you're just being a gobshite.
> 
> ...


I wish there was a love button for this post, a like seems not enough!


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

I just heads from him; they had a chilled day at home today, as he wanted her to de stress. Although apparently she's all smiles and bouncing around, so I think he made a good decision, and hopefully she feels that way when they go out tomorrow


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Heard, not heads. Stupid predictive text


----------



## Wee T (Dec 6, 2015)

S'ok, I'm feeling the love.


----------



## Wee T (Dec 6, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> I just heads from him; they had a chilled day at home today, as he wanted her to de stress. Although apparently she's all smiles and bouncing around, so I think he made a good decision, and hopefully she feels that way when they go out tomorrow


Oh that's good. Definitely a good idea to give her a 'day off'. If she even needs another day it wouldn't do any harm. Tricks and games and TLC at home is the order of the day.

Thanks for the update. Fingers crossed they can track that owner down.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Wee T said:


> That is shocking. I really hope they track that owner down. Stupid stupid man. He's putting not only other dogs in a vulnerable position but his own.
> 
> Fed up with idiot owners thinking that dogs must be off lead regardless of training and behaviour and put whatever they get up to off lead down to 'just being a dog'. No, you're just being a gobshite.
> 
> ...


If we had the rep button still, then you would get one.

I had much the same problem with Jodi and her reactivity to other dogs. All she wanted was to be left alone and not have random dogs, however friendly, come near her. She was the same off lead, so no hope there. Thankfully she had a good recall which was her saving grace. Most people we met appreciated that because she was on a lead then they should either lead their dog up to or call their dog in and to heel, but there was always someone with the oh so friendly dog, who was only playing, then wonders what kind of dog I had because she was attempting to bite their dogs head off.
Having now got an oh so friendly dog, and having had the reactive dog, I can see both sides, but I also know that everytime a dog approached my reactive one, it put back her training to be calm in the presence of other dogs. 
So I don't assume that all dogs want to play with my friendly life and sole of the party dog, I lead her up and only let her off if the other owner wants to let her dog play.

@MiffyMoo, I do hope your friends dog is ok and their will be no lasting effects from the attack. I also hope the owner can be found and prosecuted. Maybe he will then understand that he is entirely responsible for his dog on and off the lead.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> I don't think @Besoeker is a troll. Misguided perhaps, but not a troll.


What am I misguided about?


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> What am I misguided about?


I think @Lurcherlad said it best with "how to make friends and influence people" 
But you also seem confused on dog walking etiquette, dog behavior, breed traits, training.... Lots of "huh?" moments in your posts. Basically, you don't know what you don't know. Which is fine BTW, we all start somewhere, just not well received when it's coupled with a "better than" attitude.

I mean, even now, I ask you a question about what is your point, and you ignore that and question me on a post where I basically defended you. 
It makes it look like you think you're above having to explain yourself to me, but somehow I owe you an explanation for my post? Okay then...


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

ouesi said:


> I think @Lurcherlad said it best with "how to make friends and influence people"
> But you also seem confused on dog walking etiquette, dog behavior, breed traits, training.... Lots of "huh?" moments in your posts. Basically, you don't know what you don't know. Which is fine BTW, we all start somewhere, just not well received when it's coupled with a "better than" attitude.
> 
> I mean, even now, I ask you a question about what is your point, and you ignore that and question me on a post where I basically defended you.
> It makes it look like you think you're above having to explain yourself to me, but somehow I owe you an explanation for my post? Okay then...


Well said... I was just going to put "just about everything" lol!


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Besoeker said:


> What am I misguided about?


Sometimes its not what you know its how you say it (you being in general)


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> @Besoeker may I ask what point you are trying to make?


You may and I shall add further to my previous explanations.
But it's fairly simple.

Dogs need exercise. If they are on a lead all the time, that exercise will only ever be as much as the owner gets. For a big, active dog, that may not be remotely like enough.
Ours is pretty big (70 pounds) and *very* active. We walk six to ten miles a day. Every day. Good for our health. We, my dear wife and I, are slimmer, trimmer, and fitter for that.

But let the dog off the lead and he can gallop, canter, or trot and multiply that distance many times over. And that's good for him.
He gets to explore, find new things, not all of which we approve I might add! Wade out into the lake, test the water, have a swim...........this from today.










..........very little of which would be possible with him always on a lead.

So it saddens me a bit when I see a dog that isn't afforded such opportunities to enjoy.......

All we have done is taken a rather nervous rescue dog who is now a happy, healthy and very sociable fellow, loved by all the local children. 
I take dog ownership very seriously and the responsibilities attached to it.

Yet I get lambasted. 
So what am I doing wrong?


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> You may and I shall add further to my previous explanations.
> But it's fairly simple.
> 
> Dogs need exercise. If they are on a lead all the time, that exercise will only ever be as much as the owner gets. For a big, active dog, that may not be remotely like enough.
> ...


First off, thank you for rescuing a dog, that is truly wonderful, thank you! I mean that sincerely as a longtime rescue volunteer and owner of many rescue dogs myself. 
However please don't think yourself unique in having taken in a rescue and turned him around. This forum is full of members who have done that many times over.

Secondly, please don't feel sorry for dogs who are not allowed off leash in your presence. 
For one, you don't know what opportunities that dog is afforded outside of that one interaction you had with them. If you encountered us on a walk (unlikely since I tend to avoid owners with loose dogs), but if you did, you would not see my dogs off leash. And you might see me shooing your dog away from them.
You have no idea what opportunities my dogs have outside of those few seconds we interacted. You have no idea what my dogs get to do every day. You have no clue about their temperament or my training abilities or anything really other than I choose to keep them on a leash for that short interaction you witnessed.

Finally, just because you are unable to imagine what is possible as far as exercise and stimulation while safely leashed, doesn't mean it isn't possible to extensively exercise and mentally stimulate a dog while keeping them on a leash as many owners do on a regular basis.


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> You may and I shall add further to my previous explanations.
> But it's fairly simple.
> 
> Dogs need exercise. If they are on a lead all the time, that exercise will only ever be as much as the owner gets. For a big, active dog, that may not be remotely like enough.
> ...


For one, saying it saddens you that a dog isn't allowed off-lead, as if it makes us bad owners with unhappy dogs. Rather than owners who know our dogs and their limitations.
My dogs get to run off-lead, but in a safe place where nobody can interrupt their fun and they can truly not worry and just romp and play.

And for another, implying that your dogs being off-lead and approaching on-lead dogs is the fault of the other owners. And that this is responsible on your part. Despite many of us trying to explain about dog reactivity and the challenges dogs approaching them is, regardless of how friendly you say they are. 
My dogs are also rescues. They have a very happy life. But one lost her mum and all six of her siblings during her life on the street, and had to quite literally fight for food. The other lost his mum and siblings at the age of 6 weeks old, and this combined with other factors means he's not just nervous. He's terrified. My job is to keep him feeling safe, and part if that is keeping him at a distance from scary things that means he feels comfortable and therefore learn that these things aren't scary. I can't teach him these things if he has gone over threshold and is thrashing about on the end of his lead because he just wants the dog to go away.

That you have never had a negative run-in with another dog so far is down to pure luck rather than responsibility on your part, I'm afraid.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Besoeker said:


> You may and I shall add further to my previous explanations.
> But it's fairly simple.
> 
> Dogs need exercise. If they are on a lead all the time, that exercise will only ever be as much as the owner gets. For a big, active dog, that may not be remotely like enough.
> ...


I'm sure most people on on this forum would agree that it's good for a dog to gallop, canter and trot about off lead, but unfortunately there are some who can't have that luxury because some assholes allow their "it's ok, he just wants to play" dog to approach every dog it sees. Those with dogs who are nervous around other dogs, or aggressive with other dogs, or quite simply a dog who just doesn't want to share their bloody ball with another dog have no choice but to keep their dog on a lead.

So in short, irresponsible muppets who think the world should love their pain in the ass dog as much as they do ruin it for everyone.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Oh no how awful for your friend @MiffyMoo .

We had a similar situation a few weeks ago which ended up turning into a true nightmare walk. The person responsible has been reported but it was awful


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Besoeker said:


> You may and I shall add further to my previous explanations.
> But it's fairly simple.
> 
> Dogs need exercise. If they are on a lead all the time, that exercise will only ever be as much as the owner gets. For a big, active dog, that may not be remotely like enough.
> ...


You are not allowing for the fact that many dogs simply are not safe to be let off a lead. Let me tell you about Arthur my English Pointer - he is a rescue from Ireland where he was a trained working dog, he is very independent and ended up a stray and sometime later in a pound. On the last day before he would have been destroyed he was rescued and eventually sent across to Wales to a rescue where we took him on about 4 months from when he was in the pound. We have spent years working with him on a long line, following scents, reinforcing his whistle commands and 75% of the time he is excellent, responsive and obedient as long as my OH can keep up with him and keep directing him. The other 25% of the time he gets so engrossed on following a scent (usually pheasant or partridge, less so deer) and goes into a trance, ignoring the whistle and travelling some distance. I don't mean behind some bushes or lagging back a bit I mean serious distances that would take you 15 mins to get to. He wears a tracker collar so we always know where he is but we can't always get to him quickly enough before he moves off again. For a few years our life has centred around getting Arthur off his lead for a good run, several times a week we would drive out to a very large forest, walk out to areas we know are safe for him being far enough away from livestock and roads and let him off, with OH trying to keep up with him and me being left miles behind. Most of the time its fine but some of the times it just isn't and recently he has got worse so sadly we have now made the decision to keep him on a lead again. I don't want a dead dog and whilst I know he wouldn't touch sheep the farmers don't and could shoot him if he should stray onto their farm. How do you think it makes us feel to read your comments such as



Besoeker said:


> That sort of behaviour didn't happen by accident.


and the one in the other thread about not having formed a bond? There are many reasons people make the decision not to let their dogs off the lead. Most have a good reason not to such as their dog not being good with others, not having good enough recall, being extremely nervous of bouncy dogs or being old and or infirm/recovering from surgery. Life is just not as simple as train the dog and form a bond and it will come back to you yet you make it sound that simple. Arthur is our 10th dog we've had german shepherds/rotties and pointers over the last 30 years and he is the only one we've not been able to get a reliable enough recall to trust off lead.

Don't you think I would dearly love to see this



Instead we make do with lots of scenting work on a long line and lots of swimming when the weather permits.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Pappychi said:


> Oh no how awful for your friend @MiffyMoo .
> 
> We had a similar situation a few weeks ago which ended up turning into a true nightmare walk. The person responsible has been reported but it was awful


I really think it's so important to report these incidents, although I'm not overly convinced much comes of it if no human was harmed


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> I really think it's so important to report these incidents, although I'm not overly convinced much comes of it if no human was harmed


If nothing else it creates a record of the offending dog's behavior. 
If I have a bad encounter, report it, the next person has a bad encounter, reports it, third person has a bad encounter, reports it, now we have 3 recorded incidents on the same dog which is much more useful in the long run than 3 incidents that no one reported making the 4th one appear as an anomaly.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> I really think it's so important to report these incidents,* although I'm not overly convinced much comes of it if no human was harmed*


That sadly seems to be the way the cookie crumbles unfortunately. Both my boys are okay though Lucky was a bit shook up and Bear has been slightly more reactive to strange dogs but we are working on it. It could have been much worse for all dogs involved. I think the thug who let his off lead mix wasn't expecting me to have such a big mouth for someone so small.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Pappychi said:


> That sadly seems to be the way the cookie crumbles unfortunately. Both my boys are okay though Lucky was a bit shook up and Bear has been slightly more reactive to strange dogs but we are working on it. It could have been much worse for all dogs involved. I think the thug who let his off lead mix wasn't expecting me to have such a big mouth for someone so small.


I'm so sorry, I didn't even ask what happened and how they are. I think that, if a dog caused so much stress to yours, then the owner is lucky to have got away just with a tongue lashing. Poor babies, I hope they can put it behind them soon


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> I'm so sorry, I didn't even ask what happened and how they are. I think that, if a dog caused so much stress to yours, then the owner is lucky to have got away just with a tongue lashing. Poor babies, I hope they can put it behind them soon


It's no worries, thank you for your kind words 

I'm sure they'll be fine although it did make me realise how much of a strong bond my two have, I think Bear may actually love his annoying older (much older!) Westie brother


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Thats most of us then


 You took the words right out of my mouth.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Pappychi said:


> It's no worries, thank you for your kind words
> 
> I'm sure they'll be fine although it did make me realise how much of a strong bond my two have, I think Bear may actually love his annoying older (much older!) Westie brother


Mine are like that; despite the fact that Lola has turned Dex grey in the space of 7 months, he will always defend her. A few months ago a lady driving past came to a screeching halt and dragged her husky bitch out of the car to meet mine, because mine were the first she'd seen in the area. Hers immediately started harassing Lola, and before I could move her away, Dex stepped in between the two of them and started howling in the other husky's face. I was so amazed that it took me a few seconds to react and get them away from her. I then couldn't stop cuddling him


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

Pappychi said:


> It's no worries, thank you for your kind words
> 
> I'm sure they'll be fine although it did make me realise how much of a strong bond my two have, I think Bear may actually love his annoying older (much older!) Westie brother





MiffyMoo said:


> Mine are like that; despite the fact that Lola has turned Dex grey in the space of 7 months, he will always defend her. A few months ago a lady driving past came to a screeching halt and dragged her husky bitch out of the car to meet mine, because mine were the first she'd seen in the area. Hers immediately started harassing Lola, and before I could move her away, Dex stepped in between the two of them and started howling in the other husky's face. I was so amazed that it took me a few seconds to react and get them away from her. I then couldn't stop cuddling him


As much as Sara would hate to admit it, she sticks up for little Fidget (despite him being the definition of a pain in her butt!) Yesterday we had a run-in with a woman and her dog, where I just couldn't get away. Sara was further up the path, and reacted to Fidget reacting...so this woman got it from both barrels! And the Fidget was wanting to get to Sara, his back up, so then he was getting antsy because he couldn't see her. It's cute when you take out their vocal renditions!


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> First off, thank you for rescuing a dog, that is truly wonderful, thank you! I mean that sincerely as a longtime rescue volunteer and owner of many rescue dogs myself.


Thank you kindly for that.



ouesi said:


> However please don't think yourself unique in having taken in a rescue and turned him around


I don't think that. Not at all. And never made any comment that would suggest we were unique in what we did. We routinely come acrosss others from that same centre. There is simply no basis for your comment.



ouesi said:


> Secondly, please don't feel sorry for dogs who are not allowed off leash in your presence.


I don't. I feel sorry for those big active dogs that are NEVER let off the leash outside of a confined space.



ouesi said:


> For one, you don't know what opportunities that dog is afforded outside of that one interaction you had with them.


If it were just one, you might have a point. It isn't so you don't.



ouesi said:


> If you encountered us on a walk (unlikely since I tend to avoid owners with loose dogs), but if you did, you would not see my dogs off leash. And you might see me shooing your dog away from them.
> You have no idea what opportunities my dogs have outside of those few seconds we interacted. You have no idea what my dogs get to do every day. You have no clue about their temperament or my training abilities or anything really other than I choose to keep them on a leash for that short interaction you witnessed.
> 
> Finally, just because you are unable to imagine what is possible as far as exercise and stimulation while safely leashed, doesn't mean it isn't possible to extensively exercise and mentally stimulate a dog while keeping them on a leash as many owners do on a regular basis.


Finegood. So how exactly do you give your dogs the excercise and mental stimulation that mine gets running freely through the woods, paddling in a river, trying to work out what mole hills are or any of the myriad of other things things he might want to investigate.

I'm not, by any means, saying that he is a model dog. He has his quirks. But he is a happy boy. Different to the nervous chap when we first got him.


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> I don't think that. Not at all. And never made any comment that would suggest we were unique in what we did. We routinely come acrosss others from that same centre. There is simply no basis for your comment.


Again, it's how you say these things. There IS a basis for the comment, it's what you've said previously.



Besoeker said:


> I don't. I feel sorry for those big active dogs that are NEVER let off the leash outside of a confined space.


How do you know that these big active dogs are a) never let off the lead outside of a confined space? and b) big and active? 
For all you know they could be the laziest dogs on earth, and a prefer a gentle amble, un-interrupted, and then curling up on the sofa to wile away the afternoon.



Besoeker said:


> If it were just one, you might have a point. It isn't so you don't.


You're going to have to explain that one to me, I just don't get what you're saying.



Besoeker said:


> Finegood. So how exactly do you give your dogs the excercise and mental stimulation that mine gets running freely through the woods, paddling in a river, trying to work out what mole hills are or any of the myriad of other things things he might want to investigate.


Scentwork. Obedience training. Indoor agility. Running in the enclosed field (as mentioned many times). To think that your dog is leading a life more fulfilled and enriched than mine just because mine don't go off-lead in environments I can't control is laughable. It's also lazy; you think that you are stimulating your dogs brain just by doing the same romp every day? You're not.


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> I don't. I feel sorry for those big active dogs that are NEVER let off the leash outside of a confined space.


How do you know they are NEVER let off leash?



Besoeker said:


> If it were just one, you might have a point. It isn't so you don't.


It wouldn't matter if it's hundreds of leashed dogs you encounter on every walk, unless you live with that dog 24/7, you have no idea what that dog gets to do outside the one interaction you had with them that day.



Besoeker said:


> Finegood. So how exactly do you give your dogs the excercise and mental stimulation that mine gets running freely through the woods, paddling in a river, trying to work out what mole hills are or any of the myriad of other things things he might want to investigate.


And this just shows your assumptions 
You assume my dogs don't get the exercise and mental stimulation yours does.
And you are oh so very wrong LOL!


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

You would never see my dog off leash. He has little need or want to "romp" with strange dogs...
He is only allowed off leash in *safe* areas.

You have little need to feel sad about his life!









In fact we are just getting ready to go out for a 3 mile run (whilst still attached to me), he has a full and active life.


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

@Kimmikins You took the words right out my mouth 

Bear and Lucky are only allowed off lead in an area that I know, they're only allowed to socialise with dogs off lead who I know and deem appropriate playmates. We do scent work, obedience and Bear now goes running with me.

In his youth, Lucky had a dabble at agility.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> How do you know they are NEVER let off leash?


Yeah, their owners could be telling fibs.



ouesi said:


> And this just shows your assumptions
> You assume my dogs don't get the exercise and mental stimulation yours does.
> And you are oh so very wrong LOL!


How can I be wrong if I made no such assumption?


----------



## Rach&Miko (Oct 28, 2015)

There's always one...


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Besoeker said:


> Finegood. So
> how exactly do you give your dogs the excercise and mental stimulation that mine gets running freely through the woods, paddling in a river, trying to work out what mole hills are or any of the myriad of other things things he might want to investigate.


Did you read my post about Arthur? Here are some of the things we do with him to keep him exercised and mentally stimulated

Long line scenting - here he is following pheasant scent with my OH, they cover quite a lot of ground off the main forest tracks.



and again this time on Dartmoor



Lots of swimming - luckily we know of a few ponds that are safe to let him off the lead as long as there is one of us each side to steer him back and get him immediately back in the water retrieving









In water he will play with one of my other dogs (the rottie above) but he doesn't play otherwise certainly not with strange dogs, he is only interested in hunting and scenting so would not be interested in having a good romp with other dogs off lead (if he was he could do that with our other dogs).

We manage to keep him quite content - good exercise/mental stimulation/a nice raw bone to chomp on and his favourite


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> You would never see my dog off leash. He has little need or want to "romp" with strange dogs...
> He is only allowed off leash in *safe* areas..


Can you please describe what you would designate as a safe area. 
For example, I note that the picture you posted shows him off the lead. Could you describe what is safe about that area?


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Besoeker said:


> Yeah, their owners could be telling fibs.
> 
> How can I be wrong if I made no such assumption?


If you made no assumption then you have met either bad owners or owners struggling to cope. There are many who put in the effort to make sure their on lead dogs are well exercised and stimulated.



Besoeker said:


> Can you please describe what you would designate as a safe area.
> For example, I note that the picture you posted shows him off the lead. Could you describe what is safe about that area?


A safe area would vary dependent on the dogs issues


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> How can I be wrong if I made no such assumption?


If you did not think my dogs were not getting as much stimulation as yours you would not have asked the following:


Besoeker said:


> So how exactly do you give your dogs the excercise and mental stimulation that mine gets running freely through the woods, paddling in a river, trying to work out what mole hills are or any of the myriad of other things things he might want to investigate.


And sure, you could be using the general "you" instead of me specifically, but it still assumes an on-leash dog is not getting as much exercise and mental stimulation as an off-leash one, which is an incorrect assumption.

You (clearly) don't know me or my dogs or even why they might be on leash if we encounter you. 
There are a myriad of reasons why a dog might be leashed when you encounter him/her. 
Some dogs are reactive, some may have zero interest in playing with yours, some may be ill or recovering from injury, some may be elderly and/or frail and in no shape to be barreled in to by an over exuberant juvenile with poor dog skills, the owner might be in a hurry to get back home and not have time to mess around with another dog and owner, perhaps the dog is in the middle of a training session and the owner doesn't want him distracted any further... There are all sorts of reasons why someone might not want your dog interacting with them or their dog.

And guess what? Nobody owes you or your dog an interaction either, or an explanation for why they don't want to interact.

So again, unless you're very familiar with that dog and owner and are part of their lives 24/7, you have no idea what that dog gets to do, and saying you fell sorry for them comes off as smug at best.

As for my own dogs, I can assure you, they get far more than a mere 2 walks a day off leash. They lead incredibly full lives. 
I'm almost temped to say I feel sorry for a dog who only gets to go for 2 walks a day, but then that would be hypocritical of me


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Did you read my post about Arthur? Here are some of the things we do with him to keep him exercised and mentally stimulated
> 
> and again this time on Dartmoor
> 
> ...


----------



## Kimmikins (Apr 9, 2016)

Oh dear, you really are clueless...


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> But you do let them off the leash according to your pics and the second one shows a taut lead. Not really and image of a happy relaxed chappie.
> Compare that with this:
> 
> 
> ...


Wow... are you serious?
This is exactly the smug, "better than" attitude I was gently trying to point out earlier.
Are you at all familiar with scent work and tracking?

Okay, I have to ask, are you asking with a genuine desire to discuss and learn, or are you going to prove me wrong and are just here to troll?


----------



## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

Besoeker said:


> the second one shows a taut lead. Not really and image of a happy relaxed chappie.


I agree you are clueless. You obviously have No Idea what tracking is...and why the lead would be tight to do it.

Ps. Please if you continue posting learn how to quote. It is annoying to put in so much effort to read a post to then find it is arse gravy


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Dear God some people really are smug! 

Clueless...


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Nothing to do with him being under control - in those first photos he is being allowed to follow a scent - his strong natural instincts. If we want him to walk to heel then he does that too but part of keeping him stimulated/exercised (which is what you asked about) whilst on a lead is to let him follow scents.

You have also misquoted me I think as it wasn't me who said

"but if you did, you would not see my dogs off leash."
is what you posted.

because both of my other dogs are off leash, every day. Its only Arthur who isn't, apart from at ponds where we practice very strict management, to make sure he is kept fully occupied in the water and one of us is each side to make sure he doesn't bomb off - the pond in the photo also has a fence along one side of it. He does perfect loose lead walking down the pavement but then we don't encounter many pheasants/partridges/deer on the pavements.


----------



## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

What a terrible thing to happen. People seem to think it is acceptable to allow their dog to bound over to other dogs. I took the boys and Red to a busy park near here in the easter holidays. Because Red is likely to get over excited with lots of doggies and children around I kept him on a lead only for him to be hassled by upteen off lead out of control dogs! It really made me cross as the owners seemed to make no attempt to call their dogs off and Red was not a happy boy!


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> If you did not think my dogs were not getting as much stimulation as yours you would not have asked the following:


I don't know which is why I asked the question.
But I do know that I couldn't do all the things my dog can nor would be particularly interested in the thousand of things he can scent better than I can. And I'm not about to jump in the lake with him.



ouesi said:


> You (clearly) don't know me or my dogs or even why they might be on leash if we encounter you..
> Nor do you know mine. But I have explained why I let mine off.


There are a myriad of reasons why a dog might be leashed when you encounter him/her.



ouesi said:


> ISome dogs are reactive, some may have zero interest in playing with yours, some may be ill or recovering from injury, some may be elderly and/or frail and in no shape to be barreled in to by an over exuberant juvenile with poor dog skills,


Agreed. But why mention poor dog skills?



ouesi said:


> IThere are all sorts of reasons why someone might not want your dog interacting with them or their dog.


Again, agreed.



ouesi said:


> IAnd guess what? Nobody owes you or your dog an interaction either, or an explanation for why they don't want to interact.


Again agreed. I have neither need nor expetation of that.



ouesi said:


> ISo again, unless you're very familiar with that dog and owner and are part of their lives 24/7, you have no idea what that dog gets to do, and saying you fell sorry for them comes off as smug at best.


Your opinion is noted.



ouesi said:


> IAs for my own dogs, I can assure you, they get far more than a mere 2 walks a day off leash. They lead incredibly full lives.
> I'm almost temped to say I feel sorry for a dog who only gets to go for 2 walks a day, but then that would be hypocritical of me


Now where did that come from? Who mentioned just two walks a day?


----------



## Buzzard (Aug 10, 2012)

Besoeker said:


> OK. We take our dog to a safe place as do other owners.
> How can they romp around on the lead?
> Ours gallops around with others that are also off the lead. From Milly, a Yorkie to, Chai an Alsation.
> And a lot of little poodles - I have posted the pic.
> ...


I think what the OP means (and I agree with) is that not all dogs want to romp with other dogs off lead. Some dogs need space and do not want to be hassled by an off lead dog romping around them. My dog is likely to be one of those dogs that likes to go up and play with other dogs and his recall is not quite good enough tonbe called off everytime, for this reason I keep him on a lead in busy places and allow him off lead time in fields where I have a good view and can call him in easily if necessary. Basically if your dog does not recall reliably it should be kept on a lead in busy places and allowed to romp only with those dogs that want to romp too.


----------



## Dolly5 (Dec 6, 2015)

Goodness,this is exactly what happened to me yesterday! There is a lovely nature reserve near me where I have taken all my dogs over the past 5 years. I only have little dolly now and she is very good off lead but gets abit scared if a big dog 'rushes' her but so far so good she is learning to go behind me and I will deal with the situation. Anyway yesterday off we go as usual and we were walking for about 5 minutes and I heard a dog running up behind me who then jumps up on my back very very excited and mouthing me,the owner is yelling for it to come back but it doesn't ,poor dolly is standing next to me with her tail between her legs clearly scared so I get this woman's dog by its collar and kept hold of it for her to put it back on the lead,no, she said sorry about that her dog "just needs to let off some steam" it's fine I said but mine is scared so could you go ahead please ?! Now we met her again and this she saw me and put her dog on the lead,so fine. If however I had had my boy German sheperd with me when he was alive ,well dear god all hell would have broke loose!! He hated dogs coming up to him and if he had seen another dog jump up on me well let's just say this is the reason why I stopped going for a while and only walked in quite wooded area's with him on a lead because I needed total control over my boy at all times! So to cut a very long story short it's very difficult if dogs rush up to you even even your dog is fine with that because now I have a pretty dog neutral dog but a very tiddly one so sometimes she gets a little scared,phew sorry for that essay! Xx


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> You have also misquoted me I think as it wasn't me who said
> 
> "but if you did, you would not see my dogs off leash."
> is what you posted.


I think that was me. You Brits say "lead" 
But yeah, the quotes are not right on several posts.



Besoeker said:


> But why mention poor dog skills?


Because dogs with poor dog skills and owners who are clueless that their dogs have poor skills are a reason why many of us choose to not allow our dogs to interact with other dogs.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

@Besoeker

working/tracking



Not working/just watching


----------



## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I just want to see @rottiepointerhouse that Arthur is such a beautiful boy :Kiss

Although I'm going to have to avoid pictures of him from now on, he is giving me a hankering for a Pointer and my one day list is getting longer by the minute :Facepalm


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Besoeker said:


> Can you please describe what you would designate as a safe area.
> For example, I note that the picture you posted shows him off the lead. Could you describe what is safe about that area?


It is safe because there are no out of control dogs and I have a clear view...I would like to point out that the description you have of your dogs walks would bore the life out of my dog, he much prefers to interact with his human and play fun games like hide and seek, scent games, obedience training, CaniX and exploring the many, many different tracks etc...etc...

Just because your dogs like what they do, doesn't mean that ALL dogs will like the same


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Oh and here he is after our run...under stimulated by backside


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> Oh and here he is after our run...under stimulated by backside
> View attachment 267451


Yes, but was his leash tight or loose on that run? 'Cause that's how you can tell if your dog is happy or not. 
I'm so glad I've finally learned that, and to think - I was looking at the dog not the leash to determine if they're happy! Silly me...


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> I think that was me. You Brits say "lead"
> But yeah, the quotes are not right on several posts.
> 
> Because dogs with poor dog skills and owners who are clueless that their dogs have poor skills are a reason why many of us choose to not allow our dogs to interact with other dogs.


I agree.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Yes, but was his leash tight or loose on that run? 'Cause that's how you can tell if your dog is happy or not.
> I'm so glad I've finally learned that, and to think - I was looking at the dog not the leash to determine if they're happy! Silly me...


Oh bugger...









That's obviously where I have been going wrong


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Buzzard said:


> I think what the OP means (and I agree with) is that not all dogs want to romp with other dogs off lead.


No disagreement with that.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Wow... are you serious?
> This is exactly the smug, "better than" attitude I was gently trying to point out earlier.
> Are you at all familiar with scent work and tracking?
> 
> Okay, I have to ask, are you asking with a genuine desire to discuss and learn, or are you going to prove me wrong and are just here to troll?


My simple point is that our dog is under control on or off the lead. If I had any reservations about that my lovely eight year old grand girl would not been allowed to do what she did.
Scent work and tracking are a complete irrelevance for the vast majority of dog owners.


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> My simple point is that our dog is under control on or off the lead. If I had any reservations about that my lovely eight year old grand girl would not been allowed to do what she did.
> Scent work and tracking are a complete irrelevance for the vast majority of dog owners.


If your only point was your dog being under control, then why the need to comment on other member's dogs?

Tracking became relevant to this thread when you implied your dog is happier because his leash is loose. Which is one of the more ridiculous things I've read on dog forums to date LOL!


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Besoeker said:


> My simple point is that our dog is under control on or off the lead. If I had any reservations about that my lovely eight year old grand girl would not been allowed to do what she did.
> Scent work and tracking are a complete irrelevance for the vast majority of dog owners.


And so is mine





It doesn't mean we appreciate strange dogs running over uninvited!

On that note...OP sorry your thread turned into this, I really hope your friends dog continues to brush this incident off


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Besoeker said:


> My simple point is that our dog is under control on or off the lead. If I had any reservations about that my lovely eight year old grand girl would not been allowed to do what she did.
> Scent work and tracking are a complete irrelevance for the vast majority of dog owners.


So why did you feel the need to make those unpleasant comments about my dog? not looking relaxed and happy when he is clearly working and your dog walking down a pavement looking more under control


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Pappychi said:


> I just want to see @rottiepointerhouse that Arthur is such a beautiful boy :Kiss
> 
> Although I'm going to have to avoid pictures of him from now on, he is giving me a hankering for a Pointer and my one day list is getting longer by the minute :Facepalm


Thank you that is very kind of you


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> If your only point was your dog being under control, then why the need to comment on other member's dogs?


I didn't.



ouesi said:


> ITracking became relevant to this thread when you implied your dog is happier because his leash is loose.


Tracking never was relevant to the vast majority of dog owners.


----------



## Wee T (Dec 6, 2015)

Forgive me, I have a rather odd sense of humour, but seeing a beautiful pointer, nose to the ground tracking a scent - beautiful sight to behold and heaven to him - then reading a post saying doesn't look happy compared to this....followed up by.....wait for it.....A picture of a dog plodding along a pavement toward Nisa. 




(Not knocking on lead pavement walks - we do them too - it just tickled me is all. Think it was the Nisa thing, plus the dismissing of tracking. See, told you. Odd humour.  )


----------



## Wee T (Dec 6, 2015)

Besoeker said:


> I didn't.
> 
> Tracking never was relevant to the vast majority of dog owners.


But it makes many many dogs very very happy and is incredibly stimulating and rewarding. For many it is meeting an inate and almost visceral need to track. How lucky those dogs are to be given that opportunity.

It almost seems like you have a fixed idea of what makes a happy dog and seem to be dismissive of anything that doesn't fit this narrow Ideal Pet Dog Care.

Perhaps you could look into tracking. I'm sure your dog would thank you for it. Better than samey samey daily romps and tennis ball pinching. Mix it up a bit. Go wild.


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> I didn't.


Wait, are you deliberately messing up quotes so you can't be held accountable for what you actually wrote? 'Cause on the post where you quoted @rottiepointerhouse and her lovely Arthur tracking your words in reference to him were: "Not really and image of a happy relaxed chappie." That's obviously not what she said about her own dog.



Besoeker said:


> Tracking never was relevant to the vast majority of dog owners.


Since when do you speak for the vast majority of dog owners? This is a forum of dog owners, not many would agree with your that scent work and tracking is irrelevant to them. 
And weren't you asking how people exercise and mentally stimulate their dogs if they're on leash? Well, tracking is one of those answers.



Wee T said:


> Forgive me, I have a rather odd sense of humour, but seeing a beautiful pointer, nose to the ground tracking a scent - beautiful sight to behold and heaven to him - then reading a post saying doesn't look happy compared to this....followed up by.....wait for it.....A picture of a dog plodding along a pavement toward Nisa.


I know, the irony is strong there 
Poor pointer excited about following a scent out in the field, doing what he was bred to do, vs. collie plodding along at a child's pace in the middle of a busy city... It is funny  
And yes, not that there is anything wrong with a dog walking on a leash, just funny how the two were compared.

Oh wait, I have a dog plodding along next to child photo too!








Can I claim happy dogs now too?

But what about this photo? One taught leash, one loose leash, one off leash, and old Biko is just leaving LOL


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Wee T said:


> Forgive me, I have a rather odd sense of humour, but seeing a beautiful pointer, nose to the ground tracking a scent - beautiful sight to behold and heaven to him - then reading a post saying doesn't look happy compared to this....followed up by.....wait for it.....A picture of a dog plodding along a pavement toward Nisa.
> 
> (Not knocking on lead pavement walks - we do them too - it just tickled me is all. Think it was the Nisa thing, plus the dismissing of tracking. See, told you. Odd humour.  )


We weren't actually going to Nisa. And wasn't a pavement walk. The point was how well behaved the dog was on the lead. Clearly rather more relaxed than one straining on the lead. And here he is off it in a big park with lots of other dogs.










Laid back Max


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Besoeker said:


> We weren't actually going to Nisa. And wasn't a pavement walk. The point was how well behaved the dog was on the lead. Clearly rather more relaxed than one straining on the lead. And here he is off it in a big park with lots of other dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you actually not understand what tracking is? It's ok if you don't, but without admitting it, you're coming across as an absolute plank! How can you say your dog plodding along on a loose lead is more relaxed than a dog who is tracking? They might both be attached to a lead, but that's where the similarity ends. My dog is certainly not relaxed when she's tracking. She's excited, she's sniffing the ground, she's sniffing the air, she's trying to find the end of the track so she can have her reward. If she was plodding along on a loose lead while tracking then something would be very wrong :Hilarious


----------



## Wee T (Dec 6, 2015)

Besoeker said:


> We weren't actually going to Nisa. And wasn't a pavement walk. The point was how well behaved the dog was on the lead. Clearly rather more relaxed than one straining on the lead. And here he is off it in a big park with lots of other dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The dog was tracking a scent. Which would make him very happy contrary to what you believe about lead tautness and happiness.

Not knocking how wonderful your Max is or how wonderfully you've worked with him - I don't doubt he is lovely and a credit to you - but it would be nice if you didn't judge others by your own rather narrow and exacting standards and assume their dogs are unhappy. Diff'rent strokes and all that.

Oh and I was aware Max was not going to Nisa.  Just the comparison amused me. That pointer was doing what he was bred for. He would be in his element. 

But sure if you consider loose lead walking and off lead romps down the park the pinnacle of dog ownership and meeting their needs that's grand. You wouldn't be alone. I'd say most average dog owners feel that way.

That's why I was glad I discovered here and found there is SO much more we can do with our dogs to make them happy and healthy. Lead or no lead.


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> Clearly rather more relaxed than one straining on the lead.


Tut tut... you did it again 
See, you're commenting on other member's dogs implying that yours is "better than" theirs.

There is simply no comparison between a dog working and a dog strolling along. 
I don't even know what you're trying to prove there?


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Tut tut... you did it again
> See, you're commenting on other member's dogs implying that yours is "better than" theirs.


And you are still getting it wrong. My relaxed Max is jut my relaxed Max.


----------



## Guest (Apr 10, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> And you are still getting it wrong. My relaxed Max is jut my relaxed Max.


Then quit dragging other dogs in to the discussion.

Not for nothing though, I believe on another forum you mentioned your 'relaxed' Max chasing joggers, bikers, and the park maintenance truck?


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Besoeker said:


> We weren't actually going to Nisa. And wasn't a pavement walk. The point was how well behaved the dog was on the lead. Clearly rather *more relaxed than one straining on the lead.* And here he is off it in a big park with lots of other dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK are you purposefully being dumb? the dog is straining on the lead because he is excited, he is in the zone, he is following a scent and he wants his Dad to keep up with him. We can all post hundreds of photos of our dogs looking relaxed but YOU asked how do we keep dogs mentally stimulated and adequately exercised on a lead so I showed you. What exactly don't you understand about that?


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Am sure someone could look at the photo of Max and think that dog is not relaxed for whatever reason too....if they cared enough to look closely...

My dog who does the best loose lead walking is the one who is the one who is still shut down and a work in progress, so go figure, LLW does not always mean a calm dog by any means. Shes also happy to go in a down position on walks, its her preferred position, a bit like most collies I believe rather than a sit. Its not her true I am relaxed down though, that's saved for inside the security of home!

2 years on LLW is getting better but Stan gets too excited when he hears where he will have freedom to go off lead. Yep, he leans into his harness, yes lead goes tight and guess what he even has the audacity to bloody smile. If I hear 'shes a happy dog' always she because all yorkies are shes aren't they I could scream!


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> OK are you purposefully being dumb? the dog is straining on the lead


I could ask you the same personal question about being dumb but I won't. At least you accept that the dog is straining on the lead wanting to go somewhere he can't.
Eloquently demonstrates my point.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

After reading some of Besoekers other posts I'm finding this funny now...Well kinda!


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious I nearly peed!


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> After reading some of Besoekers other posts I'm finding this funny now...Well kinda!


Me too :Hilarious


----------



## Wee T (Dec 6, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> After reading some of Besoekers other posts I'm finding this funny now...Well kinda!


 Glad it's not just me. I was feeling all inappropriate because I've been laughing away here and given what the thread is about that's not quite right - sorry Miffymoo.

Tbf though I am still a bit giddy after the whole Nisa tracking thing. 

I love it when points are repeatedly and spectacularly missed. I totally see the humour in that. Little amuses me, mind. Have to say I agree it is quite funny.

And I haven't even seen the other posts.


----------



## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Wow 8 pages of this.....

OP I hope your friends Labrador is ok. Speaking from experience a dog attack can be awful for both the dog being attacked and for the owner. Also sometimes makes no difference if the dog is on a leash or not 

Hope it leaves no lasting effects though.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

lullabydream said:


> Am sure someone could look at the photo of Max and think that dog is not relaxed for whatever reason too....if they cared enough to look closely...
> 
> My dog who does the best loose lead walking is the one who is the one who is still shut down and a work in progress, so go figure, LLW does not always mean a calm dog by any means. Shes also happy to go in a down position on walks, its her preferred position, a bit like most collies I believe rather than a sit. Its not her true I am relaxed down though, that's saved for inside the security of home!
> 
> 2 years on LLW is getting better but Stan gets too excited when he hears where he will have freedom to go off lead. Yep, he leans into his harness, yes lead goes tight and guess what he even has the audacity to bloody smile. If I hear 'shes a happy dog' always she because all yorkies are shes aren't they I could scream!


Ours goes down too when a bunch of kids come screaming at him. His tail wags like a demented rudder. Of course he knows them and they fuss all over him. And he laps it up It's a joy for them, him and me.

He makes people smile. And thta can't be bad.


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

A wagging tail doesn't necessarily mean happiness though...just a dog's aroused...which may be good or bad!


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

@MiffyMoo I hope you'll let us know if there is any outcome or investigation into the other dog owner. Maybe start a new thread. I'd hate to have to wade through more of this ridiculousness, just to find out what happens. Glad he and his dog are feeling okay.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Besoeker said:


> I could ask you the same personal question about being dumb but I won't. At least you accept that the dog is straining on the lead wanting to go somewhere he can't.
> Eloquently demonstrates my point.


There you go again. Showing a total ignorance. He is going where he wants to go - after the scent, tracking the scent, following the scent, just so happens his handler is going with him, praising him for being so clever. He is totally under control and safe as is the wildlife although I'm not so sure you are being entirely honest about how much under control your dog is judging from your comments on another forum about him chasing joggers and cyclists :Jawdrop


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> There you go again. Showing a total ignorance. He is going where he wants to go - after the scent, tracking the scent, following the scent, just so happens his handler is going with him, praising him for being so clever. He is totally under control and safe as is the wildlife although I'm not so sure you are being entirely honest about how much under control your dog is judging from your comments on another forum about him chasing joggers and cyclists :Jawdrop


Flip me! All this time and effort you've put in with Arthur has been wasted! You should just let him off lead and pick him up later at the local Nisa. That's where ALL the relaxed dogs head to don't ya know!


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

lorilu said:


> @MiffyMoo I hope you'll let us know if there is any outcome or investigation into the other dog owner. Maybe start a new thread. I'd hate to have to wade through more of this ridiculousness, just to find out what happens. Glad he and his dog are feeling okay.


Yes, good idea


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> There you go again. Showing a total ignorance. He is going where he wants to go - after the scent, tracking the scent, following the scent, just so happens his handler is going with him, praising him for being so clever. He is totally under control and safe as is the wildlife although I'm not so sure you are being entirely honest about how much under control your dog is judging from your comments on another forum about him chasing joggers and cyclists :Jawdrop


Lets not forget his dog also takes others balls...it's ok tho cos the dog isn't stealing the ball, he is just beating the strange dog to his own toy


----------



## Caribou (Jan 27, 2016)

Guys, don't feed the trolls. They come back.

@MiffyMoo I hope your friend and his dog are okay - please let us know if you hear any updates. I'm especially curious as to what the police and dog warden do to find the guy (but if this is treated the same as most crimes, I won't hold my breath for results  )


----------



## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Well this thread went well.................................

:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Lexiedhb said:


> Well this thread went well.................................
> 
> :Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato:Couchpotato


Indeed, I certainly didn't expect that when I first posted


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

to parts of this thread.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

What I find funny is people responding to me about points I didn't make, making unfounded assumptions and inferences. No, I'm not 111 years old. Yes I know when it is necessary, advisable and mandatory to put a dog on a lead - and I knew before someone attempted to educate me on the matter.
I try to be precice and succinct in my use of language.
I say what I mean and mean what I say.
But there seems to have been a concerted effort here to contort that into something else.

I'm about to go out for our second walk today. Apart from crossing the car park, the dog will be off the lead for the three mile hike. He will forrage in the forrest, meet and greet his canine compatriots, all of whom will roam and reign rein free.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Besoeker said:


> What I find funny is people responding to me about points I didn't make, making unfounded assumptions and inferences. No, I'm not 111 years old. Yes I know when it is necessary, advisable and mandatory to put a dog on a lead - and I knew before someone attempted to educate me on the matter.
> I try to be precice and succinct in my use of language.
> I say what I mean and mean what I say.
> But there seems to have been a concerted effort here to contort that into something else.
> ...


YOU have set your profile to say you are 111 years old.. Maybe you thought it was funny at the time. It's not.

Anyway, enjoy your short walk.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Besoeker said:


> What I find funny is people responding to me about points I didn't make, making unfounded assumptions and inferences. No, I'm not 111 years old. Yes I know when it is necessary, advisable and mandatory to put a dog on a lead - and I knew before someone attempted to educate me on the matter.
> I try to be precice and succinct in my use of language.
> I say what I mean and mean what I say.
> But there seems to have been a concerted effort here to contort that into something else.
> ...


I think you will find your profile gives your age as 111 which is where the poster who mentioned it obviously got it from. I do hope you don't meet any joggers, cyclists or park maintenance trucks on your walk today.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Nettles said:


> YOU have set your profile to say you are 111 years old.. Maybe you thought it was funny at the time. It's not.
> 
> Anyway, enjoy your short walk.


Don't fall for it anymore @Nettles This poster is clearly here to cause trouble and nothing else...their posting history proves that much!


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2016)

@MiffyMoo I'm so sorry about your thread derail, but it is also utterly fascinating from a behavior perspective. Human behavior that is


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

ouesi said:


> @MiffyMoo I'm so sorry about your thread derail, but it is also utterly fascinating from a behavior perspective. Human behavior that is


Totally agree, it has been illuminating, infuriating and amusing


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I think you will find your profile gives your age as 111 which is where the poster who mentioned it obviously got it from.


Must be true then...........



rottiepointerhouse said:


> I do hope you don't meet any joggers, cyclists or park maintenance trucks on your walk today.


There were trucks and other machinery. There is a park improvement scheme in progress and so far it has resulted in trees being removed.
We spooted them and the "here Max" command stopped him from following them.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> Don't fall for it anymore @Nettles This poster is clearly here to cause trouble and nothing else...their posting history proves that much!


It proves that there are those here who stoop to personal insults. I'm not one of them. Yet* I'm *causing trouble??


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> Totally agree, it has been illuminating, infuriating and amusing


Just because I made a point about dogs being free to run off lead? You may not agree with me on that point and that's fine. 
A discussion forum without different points of view being expressed would be a bit boring don't you think?


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Please point out where I personally insulted you...you may take a while because it never happened.
You on the other hand have insulted many...go figure!


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Besoeker said:


> Just because I made a point about dogs being free to run off lead? You may not agree with me on that point and that's fine.
> A discussion forum without different points of view being expressed would be a bit boring don't you think?


It's not the point you made, it was the personal insults. I know you said that you didn't insult anyone, but unfortunately you did.

If your dog is happy then that's fantastic, but please do consider the effect of your words before pressing send. Yes, I get that you feel sorry for some of our dogs who are on lead when you meet us, but that doesn't mean that they are always on lead, we just need to ensure that they go off somewhere either that is quite, or well fenced etc. There is another thread where we are discussing how having reactive dogs has taught us so much. Unfortunately I was an incredibly smug owner until I got not one, but two reactive dogs, and since then I have been researching and training like crazy on how to manage things so that my dogs are happy and healthy.

The fact that people have been reacting to you is because you were quite heavy handed in your responses - maybe try and incorporate everyone's experiences and way of raising their dogs into your viewpoint. I have had so much invaluable advice since joining this forum, even on things that I would never have thought about in the beginning (from the best harnesses to whether to trim their foot hair). Unfortunately people may not be overly keen to answer any questions you pose, for fear of being judged (or just don't want to because you have already annoyed them). At the end of the day, we're all trying to do the best that we can, and for someone to tell you that your dog looks less happy than theirs is only ever going to go one way


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Someone's looking for a pity party! Bring out the violins..


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> Just because I made a point about dogs being free to run off lead? You may not agree with me on that point and that's fine.
> A discussion forum without different points of view being expressed would be a bit boring don't you think?


Your point that off leash dogs get more exercise and mental stimulation than dogs who stay on leash?


Besoeker said:


> Dogs need exercise. If they are on a lead all the time, that exercise will only ever be as much as the owner gets. For a big, active dog, that may not be remotely like enough.


Was this your point? 
Because if it was, it was repeatedly shown to be a false assumption on your part, based on limited knowledge and experience.

Or was this your point?


Besoeker said:


> The point was how well behaved the dog was on the lead. Clearly rather more relaxed than one straining on the lead.


Which was also to be completely false assumptions also based on limited knowledge and experience with dogs. 
Whether you were trying to say loose leash = relaxed (false) or loose leash = well behaved (also false) either way you're showing your ignorance.

Oh, wait, maybe your point was that leashes prevent dogs from going places they may want to go and the owner might prefer they don't. 


Besoeker said:


> At least you accept that the dog is straining on the lead wanting to go somewhere he can't.
> Eloquently demonstrates my point.


In which case, bravo, you did make one astute assumption. Yes, leashes prevent dogs from all sorts of fun things like getting run over by vehicles, stealing toys from other dogs, chasing cyclists and joggers, disturbing wildlife, etc. So not necessarily a bad thing.

But see, now I'm confused again. If you think a dog being prevented from going somewhere he wants is a bad thing, why would you brag about calling your dog away - thus preventing him from going somewhere he wants? 


Besoeker said:


> We spooted them and the "here Max" command stopped him from following them.


What difference does it make if it's a "here" cue or a leash that is preventing the dog from chasing?


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

MiffyMoo said:


> It's not the point you made, it was the personal insults. I know you said that you didn't insult anyone, but unfortunately you did.


Point out where I did so and I will retract and apologise.


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Yo
> What difference does it make if it's a "here" cue or a leash that is preventing the dog from chasing?


One requires obedience.


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Besoeker said:


> One requires obedience.


Both require obedience...


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

ouesi said:


> Your point that off leash dogs get more exercise and mental stimulation than dogs who stay on leash?
> Was this your point?
> Because if it was, it was repeatedly shown to be a false assumption on your part, based on limited knowledge and experience.


Ever tried herding cattle or sheep with a dog on a lead?


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Hanwombat said:


> Both require obedience...


Do they, now?


----------



## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Besoeker said:


> Ever tried herding cattle or sheep with a dog on a lead?


What's that got to do with anything?
,


----------



## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Besoeker said:


> Do they, now?


_Do they, now?_
That doesn't make sense...


----------



## Besoeker (Mar 28, 2016)

Magyarmum said:


> What's that got to do with anything?
> ,


Your assumption about my ignorance of dogs and leads.


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2016)

Besoeker said:


> Ever tried herding cattle or sheep with a dog on a lead?


Ever try mushing without attaching a dog to a leash?

I can play this game all day. 

If you think being on a leash doesn't require obedience you're again showing your ignorance. And contradicting yourself too since it was you who posted a picture of your grandchild walking the dog on a leash


----------



## Darkangelwitch (Mar 16, 2016)

Siskin said:


> However if I see someone with a dog on the lead, then she goes on the lead. My thoughts are that there must be a very good reason that dog is on a lead and I don't want to upset things by allowing my dog to go up to them. Besides which, I don't want my dog to assume that every dog she meets she has to go and say Hi to or initiate a play as much as she would like to.
> I also put her on a lead if a small dog is coming our way, or children or some elderly people. She's a large dog and as friendly as she is, she may scare the little dog or children, or knock awkwardly into the elderly person maybe causing them to fall. I don't want any of that on my conscience.


I do exactly the same, all my dogs love to play with both dogs and children but if I see a dog on the lead or a small child coming I put all three on mine on leads until I know the situation - it's common sense I think


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

This seems to have gone for a wander. Closing this now.


----------

