# new kittens!



## girlaboutnowhere (May 17, 2011)

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Hi everyone. :smile:
I have a beautiful snow leopard bengal called marley, she is 15 months old, so still young herself, and she gave birth to 3 adorable little bundles 3 weeks ago. there were 5 but 2 were stillborn. 
We provided a box for the birth, but marley decided, no, and had them on my 8 year old daughters bedroom floor under a pile of teddies! 
i left them like that, in a sort of nest, for a week or so and then transferred them to the box, leaving it in my daughters room. Both mum and babies took to it well. 
Marley is a good mum, and has bonded well to the kittens. 
but, i'm feeling a little out of my depth here, because, a lot of the time mum seems stressed. when she's not with the kittens, she walks around a lot of the time meowwing and chirruping ( like they do) it sounds like she's calling. she is ok with us going in and seeing the kittens and getting them out of the box for a little while, which they are wanting to do more and more. when they are out of the box, marley watches, but sometimes seems anxious and very vocal. I know bengals are very vocal cats and i'm not sure if she is stressed or just talking to us. 
Also i want to move the kittens and box with mum downstairs into the lounge, so they can begin to socialise. ( i do have an older cat, about 12 years old, who marley doesn't get on too well with) I just tried to bring the box down but marley became quite distressed and was just crying at me, so i have now taken it back upstairs. but she is still crying at the space where the box was in the lounge. i just don't know what to do for the best. should i leave them upstairs for another week or so, they are only 3 weeks old? and can anyone shed any light on why she's so vocal at the moment? i've noticed she bites the kittens too. not hard, and they don't squeal or anything. 
and also has anyone got any suggestions on wormin/flea prevention and weaning? 
I feel a bit dumb, to be honest. 
I'm new to the forum and would be glad of any suggestions.


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

You will get more responses if you had put this in the breeding section, if you pm a mod they will move it for you, actually just a thought if I report it then it should flag up for a mod to move it for you.


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## girlaboutnowhere (May 17, 2011)

ok thanks! that'd be great.
i'm very new to this forum business


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Are you getting any mentoring by the stud owner or the person who sold you this breeding queen?


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## girlaboutnowhere (May 17, 2011)

no, she hasn't been to stud, the kittens are half bengals. My older cat had kittens years ago, but to be honest, i have forgotten most of what happened then.


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## Shayden (Mar 29, 2011)

y wasnt your cat spayed? im assuming she was not bought on the active list....

who is the dad? do you own him... if so y isnt he nutured! or did u let your bengal wonder outside unspayed during her call?


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

Hopefully someone that can help with advice will be here soon 

You can probably google quite a bit about kitten weaning / worming etc!
And I'm sure your vet can help with any questions if/ when they get their check up!

Ps) Hi, and welcome! We recently got a Ragdoll kitten called Maisie


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## girlaboutnowhere (May 17, 2011)

Marley wasn't spayed because I didn't mind her having one litter before she is spayed.They are NOT an unwanted litter! No, I do not own nor know who the father is, nor do i mind that her kittens are not full pedigree. I love her and them equally. 
And can I just say that I put my enquiry on here so that someone could give me some valid advice on the matters I brought to hand, I find your questions both un useful and somewhat pointless. 
And dare I say, if it was left up to people like you, the cat world would be non existent pretty soon! 
Thanks holly, for the welcome, and yes hopefully someone will be able to offer some useful advice soon. :001_smile:


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

girlaboutnowhere said:


> Marley wasn't spayed because I didn't mind her having one litter before she is spayed.They are NOT an unwanted litter! No, I do not own nor know who the father is, nor do i mind that her kittens are not full pedigree. I love her and them equally.
> And can I just say that I put my enquiry on here so that someone could give me some valid advice on the matters I brought to hand, I find your questions both un useful and somewhat pointless.
> And dare I say, if it was left up to people like you, the cat world would be non existent pretty soon!
> Thanks holly, for the welcome, and yes hopefully someone will be able to offer some useful advice soon. :001_smile:


Are you keeping all three kittens?

I imagine her breeder will be very upset that an animal sold as a pet has been bred from. There are thousands of moggy kittens like yours in shelters  this is why every cat should not have one litter. The cat works certainly wouldn't come to an end....


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## Shayden (Mar 29, 2011)

dont get touchy with me love! your coming on a forum about kittens that are 3 weeks old and its obvious you havent done any research and have only sat back and waited till there was actually a problem.. YOU wanted your cat to have kittens? WHY? whats so special about her? is she show/breed quality? is she health tested? has she been scanned for hcm? i dont think you understand the kind of danger you have allowed your cat to get into! she has mated with an unknown tom that could be carrying any manor of desieses which can be fatal to mum and kitten, there could be an issue with blood typing and the kittens could have died...Theres thousands of cats being put to sleep every year due to people just wanted one litter.... but its ok... because YOU wanted 1 litter before she was spayed!


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## girlaboutnowhere (May 17, 2011)

Yes I'm keeping all three of them, they will not be ending up in a shelter. 
She is not on the active register, and as i said is due to be spayed on the 20th june. She did get out while in season and therefore got pregnant, not ideal, but it is how it is, and as i also said, they are a very welcome addition to the family. :001_smile:


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

Good luck with the kittens - I would get your vet to try and check them over and see if they can offer any advice. Do you have any books on the subject? There was a section on breeding in the DK Cat Care book I bought (from Amazon) before I got my kittens.

Don't worry, the cat world won't come to an end. My neighbours cat (1 year old, just had her first litter in Feb) can be heard calling very loudly at the moment. If they have their way, she will provide the cat population of North London for years to come.....I just wish she wasn't so loud!


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## Shayden (Mar 29, 2011)

i dont mean to sound harsh but to be so blazay about it isnt good! well there hear now so oh well! im glad your keeping the kittens and i hope they live a happy life with you and that you will be spaying all of them by 6 months  

it just amazes me that people put more thought into what there going to cook for dinner rather than their living breathing pet!


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

For your future info, and the welfare of your kittens, they need to be spayed or neutered no later than 6 months.


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

Im sure the op has taken your concerns & comments onboard.

So the helpful advice to answer the newcomers questions and concerns are......


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## girlaboutnowhere (May 17, 2011)

Thankyou, 
Marley had regular vet checks when she was pregnant, because, yes, I was concerned that she is a pedigree that mated with an unknown cat. The vet was not very helpful and happy that Marley was in optimum health. The kittens are feeding and doing very well too. And they are booked in for a check up as I write this. I also have a very healthy 12 year old cat, which i have had from a kitten too, so i'm not a complete novice at this. I just have some worries as i canm imagine a lot of people get, so I looked on here for some advice. guess I got more than i bargained for!


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## girlaboutnowhere (May 17, 2011)

sorry typo there! the vet was actually very helpful! :


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## Shayden (Mar 29, 2011)

out of curiosity.... did the vet offer or mention spaying of the cat while pregnant?


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## Shayden (Mar 29, 2011)

holly2009 said:


> Im sure the op has taken your concerns & comments onboard.
> 
> So the helpful advice to answer the newcomers questions and concerns are......


holly.... be quiet!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Many of our members have the welfare of all cats at their hearts and many have worked in rescues where unwanted cats and kittens from 'accidental' litters so often end up so the reactions you have received are perhaps understandable.
To answer your concerns:
I do not know enough about Bengals to give you any advice regarding her behaviour but I would leave her with the kittens wherever she is happy. I would not consider bringing them down until they are about 4 weeks old. 
Mum could well be calling again and you need to take care that she does not escape.
Weaning can start anytime from around 4 weeks - if mum's food is nearby the kittens may discover it for themselves and start to eat. You can introduce them to it by putting a little on to their noses or paws for them to lick off.
I find Panacur paste to be the easiest to use for worming kittens - available from your vet or online.
I don't use flea treatment on my kittens but I believe Frontline is suitable from a young age - please check that with your vet.
Please could everyone else not get into the sort of bickering that gets threads closed.


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## Lumboo (Mar 31, 2011)

I may be wrong but I think socialization starts around 3-4 weeks, so they may still be a little young to be moved downstairs where there is more noise etc. Why not leave them where they are for another two weeks and see how they get on with weaning. You are seeing them everyday anyway so they will soon get used to you. The rest of the family can be introduced more gradually.


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

Panacur paste for worming - read instructions as to dose per age.
Frontline the* diluted* spray - again read instructions as to dose per age.

I dont really have any personal experience with bengals but have heard they dont really make great mums so think you have a challenge on your hands.

Being as she has mated with an unknown male I would recommend getting her re health tested as Im afraid there are lots of nasties she could of caught and not even show symptoms for along time


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

holly2009 said:


> Im sure the op has taken your concerns & comments onboard.
> 
> So the helpful advice to answer the newcomers questions and concerns are......


I don't know, Holly. Since you appear to have taken control perhaps you would like to help the OP with her questions? Don't forget to include some help and advice on the dangers of allowing your cat outdoors to mate with A N Other; the health risks to the girl, the kittens, the testing which should now be carried out, etc, etc.


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## girlaboutnowhere (May 17, 2011)

well, do I feel like the worlds worst cat owner? 
talk about public lynching. I came on her as i have a couple of little niggles concerning my cat and her VERY MUCH WANTED babies ( even if it was a bit of a surprise) I was looking for a bit of advice and those of you that have offered it, i will take on board, and thankyou. 
I'm not finding it a chore having these kittens, it is a positive experience, and i want to do the best for them now that they are here. We have been so excited throughout her un troubled pregnancy. I will be taking her to the vets with her kittens, as i would have anyway. 
I will not, howver be posting any more threads on here. 
I feel utterly depressed now, and as guilty as hell, towards a cat that i totally adore and get a great deal of pleasure and love from. 
i'm more worried than ever now. 
holly, thankyou. for your welcome. good luck on here.
:001_smile:


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

Well its just a shame that you didnt go get 3 moggy kittens from rescue rather than breeding your own 

I also don't consider 2 stillborns a trouble free pregnancy, nor one which carried risks of disease 

She should have been neutered way before. This is the second accidental litter you have had, a lesson should have been learned after the first one. But no, people will continue to breed their pets.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

From your original post, it doesn't sound as if there is too much to be worried about, but it is possible that the cat is calling again so don't let her out! 

If the kittens are beginning to move around, that is likely to be the problem, good mums don't like it when the kittens start moving around because the kittens' "homing signal" (that little mewing they keep up all the time they are moving around) signals to Mum to "come and get me, quick!" and then of course if she does the kitten just toddles off again. Perhaps this is what is happening? If so, don't worry, this stage doesn't last long.

Liz


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

girlaboutnowhere said:


> well, do I feel like the worlds worst cat owner?
> talk about public lynching. I came on her as i have a couple of little niggles concerning my cat and her VERY MUCH WANTED babies ( even if it was a bit of a surprise) I was looking for a bit of advice and those of you that have offered it, i will take on board, and thankyou.
> I'm not finding it a chore having these kittens, it is a positive experience, and i want to do the best for them now that they are here. We have been so excited throughout her un troubled pregnancy. I will be taking her to the vets with her kittens, as i would have anyway.
> I will not, howver be posting any more threads on here.
> ...


It's such a shame knowledgable people don't freely give advice and help when requested rather than ostracising!
It's quite shocking how someone comes for help & this is what happens! You've had a couple of kind replies, hope they've made you feel a bit more confident about your current situation! Your not fault less but you've obviously come here for advice & support!

Hope all goes well with your kittens  x


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

bengals are funny mums, I would keep her & babies with YOU 24/7, she should not be leaving them upstairs to come and find you, sleep in the same room if you have to! I do!

whoever you bought your cat from obviously didnt sell it with a contract / paperwork? So im guessing that it is not a registered bengal? So it may not actually be a bengal. Also she wont have been breed quality, and may have been from lines with HCM, or any other problems. what colour/pattern is she? What colour eyers does she have?

In that case you need to have her & babies scanned by a mobile heart scanner or the vet & the babies for HCM, as it is literally consuming the breed at the moment, I know of another 20 now that have it 

your find someone here: Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) in cats

bengals shouldnt be mated with other cats that arent bengals due to blood groups ( Now I dont know alot about this but its what Ive been told) So again your very lucky that the babies lived.

could you have no found a bengal stud near you? remember that cats dont 'need' to have a litter, and just openning your door is the worse theing you can do, say th cat was 3 times her size? say one had herpes? one has AIDS? They mate with more than one cat they arent fussy  Thats why bengal(and other) breeders who care ONLY pick the best for bereeders and do endless healthy tests.

anyway, with bengal they need to be hilghly sozialised, they should be within your reach 24/7 and you should have been weighing them daily from brith?
worming is at 4/8/12weeks, with panacur paste or liquid. vacs at 9-12weeks.

Im glad that your keeping them as at the mo pedigree bengals from top breeder rosetted ones are going for £195-250 due to the market being swamped with idiots selling bad quality and crosses  really ruining the breed.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

girlaboutnowhere said:


> Marley wasn't spayed because I didn't mind her having one litter before she is spayed.They are NOT an unwanted litter! No, I do not own nor know who the father is, nor do i mind that her kittens are not full pedigree. I love her and them equally.
> And can I just say that I put my enquiry on here so that someone could give me some valid advice on the matters I brought to hand, I find your questions both un useful and somewhat pointless.
> And dare I say, if it was left up to people like you, the cat world would be non existent pretty soon!
> Thanks holly, for the welcome, and yes hopefully someone will be able to offer some useful advice soon. :001_smile:


Oh god, brace yourself.....I hope someone has some helpful advice for you, but expect more reprimands. The deluge will start immediately.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> Oh god, brace yourself.....I hope someone has some helpful advice for you, but expect more reprimands. The deluge will start immediately.


Deluge of reprimands or litters of kittens? I honestly cannot tell...


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

my post haS advice!!! 
(with a suttle hint of a bum smack)


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Deluge of reprimands or litters of kittens? I honestly cannot tell...


It is that time of the year when the world is flooded with kittens, so a little of both I guess.

It just seems that when someone has a specific question about a littler that's been here for about a month that going on and on about what should have been done is a little like shutting the barn door after the horse has escaped. The problem is while everyone is ranting about the door being left open, nobody is looking for the lost horse, if you follow my metaphor. Done bun can't be undone and while a reprimand or two are appropriate and good, more attention to the horse might be more productive and beneficial to the horse and its little horses---all of whom are innocents in the situation.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> my post haS advice!!!
> (with a suttle hint of a bum smack)


And I think you struck just the right balance---if I were the cat's owner, I'd be pleased to read that and take it to heart.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> It is that time of the year when the world is flooded with kittens, so a little of both I guess.
> 
> It just seems that when someone has a specific question about a littler that's been here for about a month that going on and on about what should have been done is a little like shutting the barn door after the horse has escaped. The problem is while everyone is ranting about the door being left open, nobody is looking for the lost horse, if you follow my metaphor. Done bun can't be undone and while a reprimand or two are appropriate and good, more attention to the horse might be more productive and beneficial to the horse and its little horses---all of whom are innocents in the situation.


Well I think we should do what we can to stop this happening again (its already happened twice) plus the owner has that outdated view 'I wanted her to have one litter' Correcting ignorance and irresponsibility (or trying to...)

If its all pink and fluffy no doubt we'll have loads of litter of 'half pedigrees!' (no such thing, its either a pedigree or a moggy...)


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

gloworm*mushroom said:


> Well I think we should do what we can to stop this happening again (its already happened twice) plus the owner has that outdated view 'I wanted her to have one litter' Correcting ignorance and irresponsibility (or trying to...)
> 
> If its all pink and fluffy no doubt we'll have loads of litter of 'half pedigrees!' (no such thing, its either a pedigree or a moggy...)


I agree, but sometimes there's too much of a good thing (which once again has driven off the OP) that creates deaf ears for it to fall on AND I don't think it's necessarily pink and fluffy to answer the original question. Pink and fluffy would be "oh how wonderful you have a litter--that's so awesome and we're all so terribly thrilled about it, hooray for you!" Answering the question merely seems to me to be following the purpose of a forum, which is for sharing and educating.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> I agree, but sometimes there's too much of a good thing (which once again has driven off the OP) that creates deaf ears for it to fall on AND I don't think it's necessarily pink and fluffy to answer the original question. Pink and fluffy would be "oh how wonderful you have a litter--that's so awesome and we're all so terribly thrilled about it, hooray for you!" Answering the question merely seems to me to be following the purpose of a forum, which is for sharing and educating.


I actually did answer on one of the other threads but as there was two threads (one in behaviour) and then this one was moved and that one was moved and then there was 2 etc, they ended up being split up.


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

holly2009 said:


> Im sure the op has taken your concerns & comments onboard.
> 
> So the helpful advice to answer the newcomers questions and concerns are......


See the trolls on yet another mission of mercy!


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> It is that time of the year when the world is flooded with kittens, so a little of both I guess.
> 
> It just seems that when someone has a specific question about a littler that's been here for about a month that going on and on about what should have been done is a little like shutting the barn door after the horse has escaped. The problem is while everyone is ranting about the door being left open, nobody is looking for the lost horse, if you follow my metaphor. Done bun can't be undone and while a reprimand or two are appropriate and good, more attention to the horse might be more productive and beneficial to the horse and its little horses---all of whom are innocents in the situation.


So! Are you also saying the ignorant should not be educated? Without the appropriate bum smack that is what will happen. The reason why so many bum smack is because they are answering the OPs post and may not have yet read other people's responses. Yes, advice should be offered as well but a bum smack does no harm when it is needed.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Sacremist said:


> So! Are you also saying the ignorant should not be educated? Without the appropriate bum smack that is what will happen. The reason why so many bum smack is because they are answering the OPs post and may not have yet read other people's responses. Yes, advice should be offered as well but a bum smack does no harm when it is needed.


I have never indicated that the ignorant should not be educated. In fact, quite to the contrary, I have always said that education is crucial. However, you can pretty much set your watch by the responses that will come pouring in to an initial question (be it a windup or not) involving kittens.

If the cat just got pregnant and a spay could be done, then sure, bum smack away, as the endless drumbeat of advice to abort the kittens is sound (unless one has a religious/moral aversion and couldn't live with oneself) and the sheer repetition might be useful.

But when the kittens are already here and the owner has a specific question regarding their health and care, then the endless drumbeat is no longer useful and educational. It's tedious and maybe even puts the kittens at risk. I know, people just read a question and then immediately hit "reply" and end up saying the same **** 9 people before them have said. But perhaps a little restraint, since we ALL know that most likely 8 people before you have said the same thing, is in order. A small bum smack then of the "get the cat fixed ASAP" sort is in order, but answer the damn question. Help the kittens who are already here. TB managed that balance brilliantly I thought yesterday. It's just depressing that most attempts to help get lost in the cries of "Irresponsible". If the kittens are here, they deserve as much consideration as the ones already in rescue.

(Sorry if I'm beating the dead horse. We lost one of our cats yesterday quite suddenly from an apparent aneurysm. He was fine one minute, gone the next and I'm still in such shock that I'm in denial and having trouble with dealing with it. He was a tiny kitten when I adopted him from the shelter almost 3 years ago, so small, but they'd already fixed him. His litter was found wandering in a fast food parking lot, so believe me I know how letting your cat wander and get randomly pregnant causes suffering. I'm also profoundly glad that we shared his short life, saved him from languishing in a cage, and it makes me acutely aware of the needs for care that all those little accidental kittens and cats need. I already felt that way yesterday, but today it's a lot more raw as I try to feel my way through the emotions and accept that our little Pippin really is gone.)


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Dagny .... so sorry for your loss 

RIP Little one xx


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

dagny0823 said:


> We lost one of our cats yesterday quite suddenly from an apparent aneurysm. He was fine one minute, gone the next and I'm still in such shock that I'm in denial and having trouble with dealing with it. He was a tiny kitten when I adopted him from the shelter almost 3 years ago, so small, but they'd already fixed him. His litter was found wandering in a fast food parking lot, so believe me I know how letting your cat wander and get randomly pregnant causes suffering. I'm also profoundly glad that we shared his short life, saved him from languishing in a cage, and it makes me acutely aware of the needs for care that all those little accidental kittens and cats need. I already felt that way yesterday, but today it's a lot more raw as I try to feel my way through the emotions and accept that our little Pippin really is gone.)


I sympathise with your loss, I lost a 6 year old last October to the same condition. She literally dropped dead.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

(Sorry if I'm beating the dead horse. We lost one of our cats yesterday quite suddenly from an apparent aneurysm. He was fine one minute, gone the next and I'm still in such shock that I'm in denial and having trouble with dealing with it. He was a tiny kitten when I adopted him from the shelter almost 3 years ago, so small, but they'd already fixed him. His litter was found wandering in a fast food parking lot, so believe me I know how letting your cat wander and get randomly pregnant causes suffering. I'm also profoundly glad that we shared his short life, saved him from languishing in a cage, and it makes me acutely aware of the needs for care that all those little accidental kittens and cats need. I already felt that way yesterday, but today it's a lot more raw as I try to feel my way through the emotions and accept that our little Pippin really is gone.)[/QUOTE]_I am so sorry to hear you lost your cat,i know what your going through,as i also lost one of my cats tuesday, he was only two, he died at the vets from a cardiac arrest while under anasetic, i feel sick numb and cant stop crying, i really feel for you, sending you a big hug xxxx_


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

colliemerles said:


> (Sorry if I'm beating the dead horse. We lost one of our cats yesterday quite suddenly from an apparent aneurysm. He was fine one minute, gone the next and I'm still in such shock that I'm in denial and having trouble with dealing with it. He was a tiny kitten when I adopted him from the shelter almost 3 years ago, so small, but they'd already fixed him. His litter was found wandering in a fast food parking lot, so believe me I know how letting your cat wander and get randomly pregnant causes suffering. I'm also profoundly glad that we shared his short life, saved him from languishing in a cage, and it makes me acutely aware of the needs for care that all those little accidental kittens and cats need. I already felt that way yesterday, but today it's a lot more raw as I try to feel my way through the emotions and accept that our little Pippin really is gone.)


_I am so sorry to hear you lost your cat,i know what your going through,as i also lost one of my cats tuesday, he was only two, he died at the vets from a cardiac arrest while under anasetic, i feel sick numb and cant stop crying, i really feel for you, sending you a big hug xxxx_[/QUOTE]

hugs back......I'm so sorry to hear that. How awful for you. It's the suddenness that makes it so difficult. not that it would be easy otherwise, but it just seems so unreal, and yet it is. I'm so sorry for your loss.


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