# Urgent opinions needed before its too late!!



## MissAlien79 (Jun 12, 2011)

Hiya this is my first post on here but im sitting here debating on whether to trust my vet or not.

So my Blue British Shorthair had a litter of kittens early hours thursday and friday day. the first and last were stillborn due to size and her taking her time to get them out. The last ones placenta did not come out. I called the vet an hour later and she said give her over night and bring her in in the morning (sat 9am). Well the vet said Bella seems to have an infection and her womb is still enlarged. she gave her an injection to restart labour and also antibiotcs as said she had a temp and must have an infection. One of the kittens died at the vets so the vet checked mums milk and discovered there really wasnt much. 

She advised me to hand feed although I said I have another british shorthair who had a successful litter a few days ago so i will place the kittens with her as i dont want any infection to pass to the kittens. The vet said well i dont think those kittens are going to make it anyway and I think your cat should come in tomorrow to be spayed  I asked if they could just clean her womb like they do in c sections but the vet said no spay spay spay. this just seems so sad considering if she picked up an infection during pregnancy that explains why the kittens are not good weighs and fading but why spay mum??

wel today i have to take her back as she didnt pass the placenta in the night but has started contrating this morning.

I guess im just wondering if anyone else has experianced a retained placenta?????

Im so sad my little kittens are fading even with the milk from my other cat. Im also angry that my vet wont treat them as they are too young


----------



## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

Was this her first litter? To be honest it sounds like she has had a rough time with this pregnacy, it wouldn't be fair to put her though it again. I would say spaying is the right thing to do. I hope she is feeling better soon and i hope the kittens make it


----------



## hope (May 25, 2011)

sorry to hear this hope all goes well with the little ones .

my vet is the same took me oh dog up to the vets as he had a lump on his balls he live with my oh grandad as when we lived there he became his baby and we did not want to upset him by taking him away .
she started off by saying oh its fine theres no need to bother as he is eating drinking well ect....then she turned around and said what we could do is give him the snip send the lump off to see what it is then have an ex ray on his chest  wow and this was going to cost around £500 
as we dont feed any of our animals past 8 oclock on a night she said we can do him now for you as he had a morning appointment so we said thats fine cost us £150 in the end when she said he was fine lol


----------



## MissAlien79 (Jun 12, 2011)

Hiya

I know she has had a rough time of it this time but just seems so unfair considering she must have had an illness/ infection when she was pregnant. She had a litter last year and was ok with them 

I guess I see my babies more like humans and just feel that if a human was in labour and then didnt pass the placenta straight away they wouldnt give us the snip.

She has started pushing now so im praying that she will push it out in the next hour then the vet can treat her infection and go from there. She did not seem ill during her pregnancy at all although she was a bit slack in cleaning her fur on her behind but i assumed that was because of how large she was so I helped her with that.

I think one kitten will make it as he has been putting on weight so fingers crossed. Im just sad that the kittens are dying in front of me and the vet wont do anything just seems such a upsetting thing to not even try.


----------



## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

yes they dont give humans a hysterectomy as it is major surgery and some people have to be on medication for life, for cats is is much less risky and straght forward. The difference is we have the choice to have babies or not, cats dont so you have to do what the cat would want and im sure she wouldnt mind not having another litter. If she has had a bad time with this pregnancy why risk it again.


----------



## flosskins (Jan 27, 2010)

I wouldn't spay her my first girl had problems and needed a c section and the vet talked me into spaying her at the same time and I really regretted it. Doesnt sound like there is actually anything wrong with the mum that has caused this so there is no reason to make a big decision now while you're stressed and upset, if you think about it in a few weeks and decide you wouldn't have another litter from her then you can have her spayed then. Hope the 1 kitten makes it.


----------



## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

MissAlien79 said:


> Hiya
> 
> I know she has had a rough time of it this time but just seems so unfair considering she must have had an illness/ infection when she was pregnant. She had a litter last year and was ok with them
> 
> ...


Is it not the retained placenta causing the infection.... Cause if left it will start to go bad..

I know in horses if the placenta is retained you only have so long ot get it out before you risk loosing the mare..


----------



## emmar (Aug 1, 2008)

see how she is after she has passed the placenta ...if she is ok give her a good 6mths rest from breeding ..then take it from there 
hope shes ok hun x


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

so basically mum has a infection? Was she health tested & the stud before mating?

she has to obviously have anti'bs and a log rest, with her kittens if they are ok, ID put them in with the others, hand -rearing them is so hard it is unreal :frown2: and if you have mums milk available ID use it.

if she gets another infection I would spay her, I am going through the same thing right now and my girl has to be neutered now, so I wouldnt leave it long as it could also be the start of pyo if there is puss coming out of her.

Actually going through what we have been through and are going through, ID keep a eye on her and Id probably actually neuter her.

Sadly not all births and litters are great, some are awful, and all are bloody hard work.


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

A retained placenta - or even a small piece of it - can cause an infection in humans. I would assume this to be the same with cats. Hopefully she will pass the placenta and then can be treated with antibiotics. 
If your other queen is happy to be a foster mother this is a much easier option than hand rearing but you may still have to give them a little extra for now.
I'd give her a long rest before breeding from her again if you do not have her spayed now.


----------



## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Maybe the vet thinks it time for this cat to stop having litters that is why he says spey her


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm not sure if you have the full details from your vet or if it's just how you've explained things here but if the cat's uterus is enlarged it could be due to a closed pyometra - an open pyometra and you will see discharge from the vulva, with a closed pyo you won't. Either pose a grave risk to your queen but a closed pyo much more so.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I know with dogs & rats the recommended number of litters is 2, not sure if its the same for cats, but as she's had 2 litters already I would have thought it was a good idea to spay


----------



## draculita (Jun 15, 2008)

Hopefully the placenta has passed and the vet can treat the infection. I would ask the vet if the decision to spay can wait, you sound like you have enough on your plate at the moment! I hope your felines get well soon.


----------



## MrRustyRead (Mar 14, 2011)

spaying would probably be best to stop a reoccurrence of the problem as it could lead to more complications in the future


----------



## Puindoors (May 19, 2011)

I thoroughly recommend joining the yahoo group Novice Breeders Advice for those breeding pedigree cats. 
Pyometra is treatable and many cats go on the have successful litters with the correct treatment. The group has a great deal of knowledge and can recommend breeder friendly vets who will help rather than say 'spay' at every opportunity.

The feline reproductive system works in a significantly different way to dogs (don't know about rats!), and shouldn't be compared. Female cats need to be pregnant, lactating, in anoetrus or spayed. Most Queens have a litter every 9 to 14 months naturally, and pedigree breeders often spay at around 5 or 6 years old.

Emma


----------



## MissAlien79 (Jun 12, 2011)

Thank you so much for all your advice and comments 

well we went back to the vets today and she had no discharge from the rear end and had cleaned herself up (have no idea if she passed the placenta) but she cleaned herself up.

The vet said she seems so well in herself and wanted to do an x ray which was brilliant it showed that her womb was still enlarge and she could not see anything in it. She said she thinks one of the stillborn kittens must have caused the infection in the womb which explains why i had 2 stillborn and she had lack of milk to feed the others. She said that there might not be a need to spay her and gave her another injection of antibiotics and a weeks worth of tablet antibiotics and wants to check her again tomorrow. she is so full of beans now. Bellas last reamaining kitten has taken really well to the other mum and has put on over 10g in 24 hours so im really pleased about that so fingers crossed that little one will make it 

I guess i just have to pray she passes anything that needs passing and her temp drops.

The vet today was really good (probably because she could see what a mess i was in haha blubbering all over the place) and talked me through the x ray and it clearly showed everything even the boobies and poop in the bowl so if there was anything in the womb it should really have shown up. it just showed that her womb was still large and after the vet prodded and squeezed she started leaking a liquid that was not very nice kind blood and mucus is probably the best way to describe it but she does seem in herself fine so who knows lets hope this infection goes.

Thanks for the breeding group info going to go join and read now.

I have been breeding for years and this is the first time i have had this kind of problem. I am really upset with myself that i didnt notice anything wrong when she was pregnant. I honestly watch my girls every move and know when they are going to give birth. I have a very close bond with my girls and they always wake me to say its time for delivery or if something is wrong but she honestly showed no signs :-( lets hope tomorrow her temp has dropped and womb back to normal  

thank you soooooo much for all your helpful comments so far xx


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

I did ask before but no answer, were both mum & stud health tested before the mating


----------



## MissAlien79 (Jun 12, 2011)

hiya yes both were health tested as its a requirment of using the stud all was fine.

well i think she has passed something awful as there was lots of tissue type stuff, wasnt a full placenta but im assuming it has fallen apart and come out in bits. she is full of beans this evening and seems to be ok. no leaking at the moment either 

vet telephoned today and said she wants to treat her for e coli and for a fetus infection so she is on some really strong antibiotics so fingers crossed 

kitten is doing really well too so im feeling a little better now my babies are looking brighter


----------



## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

That all sounds much more positive than your first couple of posts. One thing though, if you intend to breed her again I'd wait a lot longer than 6 months! 6 months is far too soon for another litter even if things go fine and dandy, but with things going so wrong I'd wait at least a year personally.


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

This sounds much more positive. Perhaps a kitten died in utero and set up an infection? That happened to me twice (different cats) with an entire litter stillborn the first time, and two stillborn and three too weak to survive the second time. The second cat needed no treatment (yes the vet did check her) and had a wonderful litter of five this year with no problems at all, the first had a caesarean, clean out, antibiotics, and despite the vet preferring to spay we didn't and the next litter was fine. As long as the infection is completely cleared up there is no need to wait longer than usual before breeding this cat again.

Liz


----------



## MissAlien79 (Jun 12, 2011)

aww thanks for your comments its nice to know that she should be ok in the future and it was just one of those horrible things that can happen  I intend to wait until next year before lettering her breed again. God it must have been awful to have 2 litters stillborn i swear I cant help but cry when I have stillborns.

It makes me so angry when people assume you are a bad breeder because you have had stillborns in the litter. I know another breeder who is very very well known on the cat show front and he lost 4 litters from 4 different girls last year but this year they are all doing fine and trust me he is such a careful breeder sometimes it just happens 

well my Bella is full of beans this morning and eating her antibiotics with her brekkie so im really hoping her temp is back to normal but will find out at vets today  ive actually spent more time at the vets in the last 4 days than i have in a lifetime hahaha


----------



## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Yes it does happen. Overall, the expected death rate for newborns is around 10%, so if you have two litters of five, statistically "on average" you can expect to lose a kitten. 

Liz


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

no it does happen, its like any animal or human no all survieve


----------

