# Advice needed: No milk after c section!!



## beagirl (Aug 26, 2008)

My cocker spaniel had a litter of 7 pups yesterday morning by emergency section (she got spayed at the same time). She is doing ok, wasn't interested in pups initially, but now being a great mum. Only problem is she doesn't seem to have much, if any milk!

Pups are fairly settled, get noisy but then appear to feed, and settle again. However when i try to see if she has milk, there is only a tiny bit i can express with the back 2 teats and nothing from the rest. The vet did mention she didn't appear to have milk but thought it may come in today. 

I'm getting a bit worried that the pups are not settled, but lethargic without milk - they were all weighed yesterday and i did them again this morning and they've all lost about 15g (initial weights 322 - 356g).

Any advice on supliments/food stuffs i can give my bitch to help bring in her milk would be great?

How long would you leave the pups before bottle feeding?

I've had 2 litters before from a different bitch, and they were textbook births, but i feel at a total loss at the moment and very worried, can't seem to find much information anywhere re how long to leave the pups before interfearing. The suckling action may help to bring in her milk, but if it's never going to happen i don't want to leave it too long before bottle feeding, so that the pups are too weak to take the bottle!!

Any help greatly appreciated.

Nicola


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

Hi Nicola,

PM Tanya she will b able to offer help and advice, you could go buy some bottles and a tub of pup milk from your vet, tbh surprised they didn't suggest this in the event u need to hand feed them, least if u have stuff in then u can crack on if need be, we did it with our litter as my girl developed mastitis, only had to supplement them a few days til she was sorted but they thrived, if u r worried then no harm in supplementing them IMO.

Good luck and try not to worry hon xx


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

oh forgot to ask, how is her appetite after the surgery, her food intake is improtant to produce milk, what u feeding her and is she tkaen on more than normal?


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## beagirl (Aug 26, 2008)

Thanks for the quick reply. I do have a tub of milk replacement powder and feeding set etc in my whelping kit, so all prepared if i need to step in. Was just worried that bottle feeding may interfear with the milk coming in.


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## beagirl (Aug 26, 2008)

her appetite is pretty good. She's on James wellbeloved puppy biscuits (has been for a few weeks now) and i'm mixing in tinned meat to make it more appealing. drinking ok too.


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

beagirl said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I do have a tub of milk replacement powder and feeding set etc in my whelping kit, so all prepared if i need to step in. Was just worried that bottle feeding may interfear with the milk coming in.


I had this worry but we didn't feed them bottles full time, just supplemented 2 feeds, once Cara was sorted then all back to normal, if u r at all worried PM Tanya and maybe call ya vet but i've found most vets don't have a lot of experience in whelping and litters, so best speak to an experienced breeder and Tanya is the midwoof here, she is fab


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

beagirl said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I do have a tub of milk replacement powder and feeding set etc in my whelping kit, so all prepared if i need to step in. Was just worried that bottle feeding may interfear with the milk coming in.


Let them suckle on her and also 'top' them up with some milk, there are some herbal tablets you can get for bringing the milk in but I cant remember what they are called off hand - have a look on Dorwest Herbs !!! Give her some goats milk as well, I had one that didnt have much milk and this was what was suggested to me  her milk did eventually come in and she fed them after the first couple of days

Good luck, keep us updated


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## beagirl (Aug 26, 2008)

Thanks. Will give them a bottle feed and see how we get on, will put my mind at ease. Will get hubby to pick up some goats milk and give it a try.

Much appreciated. I'll let you know how we get on.


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## beagirl (Aug 26, 2008)

Hi,
Tried bottle feeding but the pups are too weak. we're just back from the vets and there is definately not enough milk for any of the pups. I will be having to handrear them (unless i can find a surrogate).
Have left them at vets and have to go back at 5.30. one of the nurses is very experienced so is going to give them glucose to perk them up and then start bottle feeding. when i go back she will show me exactly what to do.
I am in for such hard work and the vet has already warned me they probably won't all make it, it's devastating, but i'm trying to stay positive. 
Any advice on hand rearing puppies welcome. 

I did mention tube feeding to the vet if they won't take the bottle but he said no straight away - has anyone experience of it? I want to do anything and everything to help these puppies survive and if they won't take the bottle then i thought this would be the next step.

thanks in advance


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

we hand reared our last pup, also giving glucose - he was to small and weak to suckle, so bottle feeding was no option. we had mixed views about the tube feeding (although I have done it many a times, with success on wild animals). we had no choice with our lad it was either tube feed or watch him go down hill. The tube feeding is a good, effective way of feeding puppies in my opinion and in such situations again it we wont think twice. 
When feeding its important that the pup is always warm, you should never feed a cold pup - toileting before and after feeding is also a most, if mum is happy to do this then thats fine also.

It may be wise to put the stronger of the pups on the bitch even possibly after you have fed and they have energy, this should help bring milk down.

Hope it all goes well, its possible you may lose a few your vet is right, so do be prepared and never blame yourself, these things happen..breeders are only human therefore can only do their best.
Good luck!


ps - where are you located? & I will keep an ear out for a surrogate!


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Where abouts are you? I know of a bitch with 10 day olds pups and plenty of milk. If you are local to me I will help you get them started and out of the danger period.  Failing that, I may know someone in your area who can come and help


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## beagirl (Aug 26, 2008)

thank you for the offer of help. i'm in aberdeenshire. 

one boy pup has taken to the bottle no problem, but the other 6 pups are not so keen at all. will just have to keep trying them.

long night ahead i think..


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Has your vet taught you how to tube feed? It might be worth asking them to show you to get you through the worst of it.
If they are struggling for energy, use a pea sized amount of glucose to give them the energy required to suckle.
I will ask around for surrogates in your area and get back to you 

BTW, what breed?


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Just seen, cocker spaniels.... I will learn to read one day


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## beagirl (Aug 26, 2008)

Thanks Tanya.

I did ask the vet about tube feeding as i'd read a lot about it online, but they refused to even consider it!! Said there was too much risk of pnemonia etc.. i was quite annoyed as if they won't take a bottle what's the other alternative - just let them fade away! THink i'll be phoning a different vet tomorrow first thing.


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Tube feeding is safer than bottle feeding once you are shown how to do it. I have put the word out about trying to find you a foster mum in your area. The word is getting around, so hopefully we'll have some luck


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## beagirl (Aug 26, 2008)

Thank you so much. I've been texting everyone i know today trying to find a surrogate girl. It's such a shame as Pidge is being a fantastic mum to the pups, really doting on them, her body's just letting her down.


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## francesandjon (Jun 3, 2009)

Tanya - would the following dog be any use? 

" ***** could do this shes an excellent maternal dog and she has been leaking milk for years.We tried galastop and loads of other tricks and potions and vet eventually said just leave it alone"

I know nothing about breeding....didn't know whether the dog needed to have just had pups to have the right kind of milk....??


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

I'd only recommend a bitch with a small litter or a recently lossed/ phantom litter, as the hormones necessary for mothering wouldn't be present.


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## francesandjon (Jun 3, 2009)

Tanya1989 said:


> I'd only recommend a bitch with a small litter or a recently lossed/ phantom litter, as the hormones necessary for mothering wouldn't be present.


Okey dokey.

Theres also one in Essex who has had a phantom.....guess thats way too far away though!


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## Afinmore (May 22, 2008)

Keep trying them on her teats - I had a girl who had a c-section and it took 5 days for her milk to come in. I just topped up the puppy and kept trying to express from her or get him to suckle.

Good luck!


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## beagirl (Aug 26, 2008)

These pups just will not take a bottle!! even the ones who did to start with are refusing now! i don't know what to do and feel totally useless. i can get a couple of drops into them but that's it.


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Its definitely time for the vet to intervene and teach you to tube feed. The puppies just can't go any longer without feeding.


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

wot about a small syringe 2 start off til u get tube feeding sorted, we used one at first, takes time but gets sumat into them?


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## 5 dogs (Mar 27, 2011)

my girl had a section a week ago and her milk only properly came in on the sunday, i was syringe feeding the pups every other feed as to let them suckle i was told does encorage the milk. good luck with your pups and i really hope things improve for you x


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## beagirl (Aug 26, 2008)

Hi all. Quick update, Rang my vet practice this am and demanded they do something or i'd find another vet. One of the senior vets (not the one i'd been dealing with so far) stepped up and took me in and showed me how to tube feed them. AT LAST! I know it has it's own risks but for the pups who just will not take the bottle i have something else to try.
I'm sure they must be getting some milk from mum (she still has a very small amount in the back 4 teats if you squeeze them), so keeping everything crossed her milk does come in soon. 
The vets were actually surprised how lively the pups are (not as much as pups i've had before but they do put up a struggle when you try to give them the bottle). I think they just sent me away and expected the pups to die, but i'm going to give it my best shot and fingers crossed, all the stress and worry will be worth it if even one pup makes it. 
Mummy dog has been quite sick after i feed her since last night so she got a few jabs at the vet and i've got tins of the sensitive food to try so hopefully that will help too. 
THank you for everyone's kind word. I'll keep you updated.
x


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Glad you have now been shown how to tube feed, good luck! All paws crossed here!


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## Ditsy42 (Aug 13, 2010)

so glad 2 hear u found a sensible vet willing to show u how 2 tube feed, good luck and let us know how they get on x


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