# visible nipples



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

This sounds odd but as Inca my female dog was spayed at 4 months old she never developed nipples and I'm so used to seeing dogs without them and males without their furry plums that it looks odd. 

A male's furry plums are easy enough to remove if was going to adopt one that hadn't been done but what about if a female has visible nipples from having had a litter and it been a short coated dog?

Would that put you off adopting if dog was perfect in every other way? or would you choose a male instead where fury plums can be easily removed and hope it got on with your male dog? 

The reason I asked was a neighbour was telling me about a 3 legged JRT that needed a home and said I'd be ideal cos the dog could ride on footplate when it was getting tired... I laughed at the idea I'd be considered just cos the dog would have its own chauffer driven mobility scooter!! .. She's about 2-3yrs old and has obviously already had a litter as her nipples are very visible. (hanging down).

I said it's not the right time as I wouldn't even consider another dog while I still have Inca, especially not another female! (she wouldn't like it!) and the dog will have have probably been adopted by the time I was ready, but I'm not sure how I feel about her nipples been so 'obvious'. I think I'd be the same with males and kind of relieved JJ is so furry his private parts are fully covered. 

Now wondering if I'd find an older female (especially in rescue) that even if she'd been spayed hadn't already had at least one litter. Would it influence your decision on choosing who to adopt? Or would a dog only having 2 or 3 legs instead of 4 influence it more? 

Oddly the fact she's disabled and only has 3 legs does not bother me at all! ... and feel its only the 'visible nipples' issue that would stop me snapping her up if she had still not been rehomed (or been returned) by the time I was ready. 

She was rescued from Death Row and it made me wonder if she ended up there because she was 'disabled' or because the 'visible nipples' issue meant she was never chosen for adoption?


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

My dog has rather obvious nipples , she had 2 litters in her youth. They don't bother me in the slightest , they served their purpose and that's fine with me. My daughter does find them slightly repulsive ( she's a midwife for heaven's sake !!  as I was .) I tell her Tango's fed 5 babies so they're good functioning organs but she doesn't like them.
What is it that bothers you about them , they're just part of the dog like it's nose or ears ?
Visible nipples would never put me off adopting a dog.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I cant say its something i have ever, ever considered. Let alone have it affect a decision.. (this is the first time I have heard of the visability of nipples affecting such a decision..)


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

No it wouldn't affect whether I'd adopt the dog or not. My main priorities would be temperement and her getting on with Lucky.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I've never seen a dog with visible nipples unless it was shown on TV feeding puppies. 

Actually our male dogs when we were growing up (both entire and short haired breeds) both had visible private parts. JJ was snipped more for behavioural reasons as he's so long coated especially around his back end that you wouldn't be able to see them anyway. 

Inca had been neutered by the rescue before I adopted her 13yrs ago and at the time it just never occurred to me as I was never going to breed from her. 

Do you cover your dogs up with T-shirts/coats when you take her out? I guess it's similar to the issue of whether people like to see other women breast feeding in public or feel they should go somewhere private to do it and not be sat with their boobs hanging out in public places!..lol!

Maybe the feel of them too as Id imagine with a 3 legged dog at some point you'd need to pick it up for some reason and holding it underneath you would feel them in your hands, unless you put a doggy t-shirt or something on it.. tbh I've never examined any of my dogs 'private parts', that's the vets job! I'm a bit squeamish about stuff like that myself!


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> I've never seen a dog with visible nipples unless it was shown on TV feeding puppies.
> 
> Actually our male dogs when we were growing up (both entire and short haired breeds) both had visible private parts. JJ was snipped more for behavioural reasons as he's so long coated especially around his back end that you wouldn't be able to see them anyway.
> 
> ...


Lucky has tiny nipples as she's never had a litter and was spayed at 12 months but if she did have big ones I wouldn't cover them up. I'd just let them be free


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

IncaThePup said:


> Do you cover your dogs up with T-shirts/coats when you take her out?


 why on earth would you do that!? unless it was a low dog and they were at risk of draggin' on the ground! (besides all dogs are actually walking around naked anyways *gasp*).

I dont think it would bother me at all. But I probably wouldnt be a very good owner for a dog like that...Im terrible for playing with feet, ears, muzzles, etc....I couldnt be certain that I wouldnt pretend to milk my dog for my own amusement whilst giving belly rubs!:lol:


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

A bitch doesn't had to have had a litter to have visible nipples. A false pregnancy can have the same effect. And I once came across a bitch (Vizla, as I remember) who was so well endowed in the mammary department I assumed she had recently had a litter. The owner said she never had, was spayed young and that's just the way she was.


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## Nicki85 (Oct 6, 2010)

Have to admit I've never ever thought about being able to see a dogs nipples/ balls. Surely as dogs are well, dogs, they have no need to be covering up their bits?! I've no idea why you'd think you would need to cover them up out of the house... Other dogs won't be chasing them down the street due to the attractiveness of their nipples!!! I'm really bemused lol. I'm also pretty sure you can't draw a parallel to a human woman breast feeding her baby


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Nicki85 said:


> Have to admit I've never ever thought about being able to see a dogs nipples/ balls. Surely as dogs are well, dogs, they have no need to be covering up their bits?! I've no idea why you'd think you would need to cover them up out of the house... Other dogs won't be chasing them down the street due to the attractiveness of their nipples!!! I'm really bemused lol. I'm also pretty sure you can't draw a parallel to a human woman breast feeding her baby


lol!... that didn't come out quite right. I guess I meant in most places people cover their private parts and with all the dogs I've ever seen been spayed or if they do have nipples they were small or dog was long coated so they weren't instantly visible. I can honestly say it's not something I'm used to seeing so visibly.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Burrowzig said:


> A bitch doesn't had to have had a litter to have visible nipples. A false pregnancy can have the same effect. And I once came across a bitch (Vizla, as I remember) who was so well endowed in the mammary department I assumed she had recently had a litter. The owner said she never had, was spayed young and that's just the way she was.


I never knew that!! .. If she was spayed young then how would she still have a false pregnancy? I thought that was something that happened to young bitches when having their first seasons?

Wouldn't they go back down again after the false or real pregnancy had finished when they weren't (or had stopped) producing milk to feed the puppies with?


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I think Burrowzig meant false pregnancy can affect the prominence of the nippes BUT a bitch doesn't need to have experienced a genuine or phantom to have this feature. My vet says her Vizla bitch has never had pups and has been spayed and her nipples are obvious.
I would certainly not cover Tango's bits unless they were in danger of dragging on the ground - even though she's a mini dachshund she has plenty of clearance !


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

SusieRainbow said:


> I think Burrowzig meant false pregnancy can affect the prominence of the nippes BUT a bitch doesn't need to have experienced a genuine or phantom to have this feature. My vet says her Vizla bitch has never had pups and has been spayed and her nipples are obvious.
> I would certainly not cover Tango's bits unless they were in danger of dragging on the ground - even though she's a mini dachshund she has plenty of clearance !


lol! :lol: glad to hear it!!!

I've been doing lots of research and looking up different breeds on the internet and none of the photo's of the breeds ever show photo's where the private parts are really visibly on display. Don't remember ever seeing females with hugely visible nipples on crufts either trotting round the ring!!

Inca has none at all and is perfectly smooth I guess I saw that as normal as she's the only bitch I've ever owned. I do vaguely remember a friend from work having a staffy and she had small nipples (the dog not the friend!) but she'd had a litter before been spayed so I'd assumed that was why she had them and Inca didn't.

This other dogs were more visible.

Anyway just curious.. thanks for the comments had me in stitches some of them!! :lol:


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> lol!... that didn't come out quite right. I guess I meant in most places people cover their private parts and with all the dogs I've ever seen been spayed or if they do have nipples they were small or dog was long coated so they weren't instantly visible. I can honestly say it's not something I'm used to seeing so visibly.


But dogs aren't people? There would be a very different reaction to a person walking around naked ( they would be arrested) than animals? Animals aren't meant to wear clothes.

It would make no difference to me, I haven an entire male, and it's never offended me or anyone else when he displays his genitalia even when excited? it's a dog they have no sense of modesty... I don't think anyone is going to be offended that a bitch has visible nipples, if it is something that would put you off so be it.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> Don't remember ever seeing females with hugely visible nipples on crufts either trotting round the ring!!
> 
> :lol:


There are lots of them.


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## Nicki85 (Oct 6, 2010)

Meezey said:


> But dogs aren't people? There would be a very different reaction to a person walking around naked ( they would be arrested) than animals? Animals aren't meant to wear clothes.
> 
> It would make no difference to me, I haven an entire male, and it's never offended me or anyone else when he displays his genitalia even when excited? it's a dog they have no sense of modesty... I don't think anyone is going to be offended that a bitch has visible nipples, if it is something that would put you off so be it.


This is what I was trying to say lol. My Spaniel is entire as well and spends a lot of time displaying his balls to people by rolling on his back asking for belly rubs. No one has been offended so far! He also spends a lot of time keeping them sparkling clean....


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Nicki85 said:


> This is what I was trying to say lol. My Spaniel is entire as well and spends a lot of time displaying his balls to people by rolling on his back asking for belly rubs. No one has been offended so far! He also spends a lot of time keeping them sparkling clean....


Cian sleeps on his back all the time, and also being a short coated breed that didn't have a tail their crown jewels are always on display, they are still now as he carries his tail high. Even in some of the short coats bitches their genitalia are also on display, not something I would really notice. It's a way for me to tell if it's a dog or bitch that's all...


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

IncaThePup said:


> I've been doing lots of research and looking up different breeds on the internet and none of the photo's of the breeds ever show photo's where the private parts are really visibly on display.


your browser history must be starting to look really suspicious!LOL

Hannah has quite sticky out nipples, even though she's been spayed and never had a false pregnancy. Doesnt affect the quality of tummy rubs tho!


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

I would never, ever let something aesthetic determine whether or not I adopted a dog. 

The thought of judging a dog in need of a home, purely on her nipples, doesn't sit right with me. 

If I like the dog and it fits my lifestyle then that's all that matters.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> your browser history must be starting to look really suspicious!LOL
> 
> Hannah has quite sticky out nipples, even though she's been spayed and never had a false pregnancy. Doesnt affect the quality of tummy rubs tho!


 lol!... no browser history has just been looking up temperament of different small dog breeds I was interested in.

Must be Inca that's odd then not having any at all! I thought that was 'normal' unless a dog had had lots of litters. I always assumed it was cos she was spayed before her first season and had never had pups, a season or phantom pregnancy or anything.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

You don't mean dangly nipples like this?



















Then no, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

This isn't my dog, but she's a rescue who was used as a breeding bait dog and had horrific injuries on her head and neck. You can see that she's had a few litters, she's got stretched skin and dangly nipples that are easily visible. Although she was adopted by her fosterers (who run the rescue), there were a good few people interested in adopting her, despite her boobies


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

Sorry but I really don't see why something like this would affect your decision? 

Does it really matter? 

It won't make a slight bit of difference to the character or temperament of the dog which is the most important thing IMHO


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> This sounds odd but as Inca my female dog was spayed at 4 months old she never developed nipples.


Can I just point out that she does have them, even if you cannot see them. Nipples develop in the womb.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

SLB said:


> Can I just point out that she does have them, even if you cannot see them. Nipples develop in the womb.


honestly she's completely smooth there's no visible nipples at all. I can take a photo if you want to see!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Sarah H said:


> You don't mean dangly nipples like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm glad she's out of the clutches of her former owners, & happy she's been adopted, but at the risk of being
seen as an interfering nosey-parker :lol:, may i suggest she needs to *lose 
weight* & gain muscle, she's
carrying a helluva load - her forehand is overloaded, she's overpronating her pasterns, & she's got some sort
of structural issues in her rear - excessively vertical? / slipping patallae? / dysplastic knees or hips?...

Some other problem, from the pelvis down?

Any smooth-coat should have slightly-visible rear ribs [depending upon the breed & body-type, 2 or 3]
& well-defined shoulder layback from the point of the shoulder blade beside the chest / outside the neck
to halfway to the elbow - her ribs are plastered in fat, & her shoulder-layback is buried. Her neck is cylindrical
with no taper, she has no visible waist whatever, & her underline between fore & rear legs is a pipe.

If they are familiar with it, the *pumpkin diet* is very simple, generally safe, & effective.
They should ask their vet to be sure s/he approves, just in case there's some worry specific to this dog,
but the process is very straightforward & easy:
- *Reduce* the total VOLUME of each measured meal by 1/3 [rapid results] or 1/4 [slow but steady].
- REPLACE that volume with an equal amount of plain canned pumpkin - high-fiber, smells sweet,
tastes yummy, minimal calories.
- *Increase* the dog's exercise amounts:
* endurance: longer walks, low-intensity duration exercises like wading.
* lightly aerobic: alternate jogging with walking on SOFT surfaces - turf, sand, etc, NOT paving.

Due to her apparent structural issues, whatever they may be, i wouldn't allow her to leap around or gallop much,
she's liable to rip an ACL or do some other damage that will require surgery to repair; the enforced rest during
her recovery period will only cause her to lose muscle to atrophy [which begins within 24-hours in dogs!],
& make wt-gain more likely ON TOP of her current excess.

She really needs less fat & much-more muscle.

I note her shaved neck/ear area. Looks well-healed. :thumbup:
.
.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

With respect L4L, it's not Sarah H's dog and I think what you've deduced is rather a lot for one picture, particularly seeing as it's about dangly boobies which do rather distort her figure! Lol.

eta sorry if that came across as rude or snipey, it must be the heat


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

They weren't as bad as that, just individually prominant under her smooth tummy. They probbaly wouldn't have been as easily seen if she had been a rough coated JRT. 

I can't think of any dog I've seen where they've been visible round here, only seen them as bad as the one shown on Sarah H's post when its been on telly or in photo's from resuces of ex-breeding dogs. Which is so sad that they spend their lives in sheds just constantly giving birth or used for fighting. poor things!


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> They weren't as bad as that, just individually prominant under her smooth tummy. They probbaly wouldn't have been as easily seen if she had been a rough coated JRT.
> 
> I can't think of any dog I've seen where they've been visible round here, only seen them as bad as the one shown on Sarah H's post when its been on telly or in photo's from resuces of ex-breeding dogs. Which is so sad that they spend their lives in sheds just constantly giving birth or used for fighting. poor things!


All the more reason not to let something silly like nipples put anyone off adopting. They deserve so much love to make up for hardships at the hands of our species, and give it back tenfold.

You probably haven't noticed cos its not something people look for? My old lab had nipples but can't say you would see them unless she was flat on her back.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

leashedForLife said:


> I'm glad she's out of the clutches of her former owners, & happy she's been adopted, but at the risk of being
> seen as an interfering nosey-parker :lol:, may i suggest she needs to *lose
> weight* & gain muscle, she's
> carrying a helluva load - her forehand is overloaded, she's overpronating her pasterns, & she's got some sort
> ...


The first pic is from her very first proper walk (taken months ago), when she was still not completely healed, so all effort was being put into getting her better. The second pic is much more recent, and you can see that she's lost some mammary fat already and is looking in better condition.

She's much more of a plodder than a galloper, and when taken into a local college for a talk about dog fighting and baiting, promptly went to sleep in the middle of the class room! She's a lucky girl, and such a softy considering she was bred until she could produce no more, then tied up by her feet and set upon by fighting dogs. Goodness knows what health problems will crop up in later life, but she's got the best home she could possibly have now and will be loved until her last breath  Thank you for your concern though, she was at least fed by her previous owners (if you can call the [email protected] that...) and is still recovering.



IncaThePup said:


> honestly she's completely smooth there's no visible nipples at all. I can take a photo if you want to see!


Her boobies will go down, but will still be a bit dangly. I don't know of any dogs without nipples  Would love a pic!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Rosie's nipples are barely visible, they're more like pimples, but she does have them.

I'm really surprised that anyone would be embarrassed about a bitch having nipples that they would feel the need to cover her up when out and about.

I've never heard of such a thing.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Sweety said:


> Rosie's nipples are barely visible, they're more like pimples, but she does have them.
> 
> I'm really surprised that anyone would be embarrassed about a bitch having nipples that they would feel the need to cover her up when out and about.
> 
> I've never heard of such a thing.


God help the boys with their pompoms, dangley bits AND nipples...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Meezey said:


> God help the boys with their pompoms, dangley bits AND nipples...


If we all had aversions to dangly bits, nipples and willies, none of us would have a dog.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I hope the OP never comes across a male horse in the relaxed position. Now that is an impressive dangly bit. 

My friend was in a horse showing show once. She was in the in hand class, and was holding her horses head as the judge walked round it. We were watching and trying to make gestures to her, she was just smiling back thinking we were waving. What she didn't know was that her horse was showing off rather more of his -er, equipment- than the judge would normally see!!


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

BessieDog said:


> I hope the OP never comes across a male horse in the relaxed position. Now that is an impressive dangly bit.
> 
> My friend was in a horse showing show once. She was in the in hand class, and was holding her horses head as the judge walked round it. We were watching and trying to make gestures to her, she was just smiling back thinking we were waving. What she didn't know was that her horse was showing off rather more of his -er, equipment- than the judge would normally see!!


:lol: fortunately I've never had the pleasure of an horse showing me his equipment!!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> I hope the OP never comes across a male horse in the relaxed position. Now that is an impressive dangly bit.
> 
> My friend was in a horse showing show once. She was in the in hand class, and was holding her horses head as the judge walked round it. We were watching and trying to make gestures to her, she was just smiling back thinking we were waving. What she didn't know was that her horse was showing off rather more of his -er, equipment- than the judge would normally see!!


Rude boy ! Hence the expression 'hung like a stallion '??
Taliking of nipples how are Bess's ?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BessieDog said:


> I hope the OP never comes across a male horse in the relaxed position. Now that is an impressive dangly bit.
> 
> My friend was in a horse showing show once. She was in the in hand class, and was holding her horses head as the judge walked round it. We were watching and trying to make gestures to her, she was just smiling back thinking we were waving. What she didn't know was that her horse was showing off rather more of his -er, equipment- than the judge would normally see!!


My gelding likes to give his dangly bit a good airing every now and then.

It is enough to give the average man a fearful inferiority complex.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Meezey said:


> God help the boys with their pompoms, dangley bits AND nipples...


 Boys are meant to have nipples too! Jeez my furkids must be freaks.. lol they both just look like puppies underneath. JJ has had his pompoms removed but his fluffy trousers are so fluffy you wouldn't see them anyway! ... and yes he does still have his 'dangly bit'.. lol!

I'll have to get some pics and put them up later!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> I hope the OP never comes across a male horse in the relaxed position. Now that is an impressive dangly bit.
> 
> My friend was in a horse showing show once. She was in the in hand class, and was holding her horses head as the judge walked round it. We were watching and trying to make gestures to her, she was just smiling back thinking we were waving. What she didn't know was that her horse was showing off rather more of his -er, equipment- than the judge would normally see!!


You'd need a chuffing large t shirt or undies to cover that...... Be pants on elephants next


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I've seen a few show dogs that were er rather well endowed, the bob neapolitan mastiff at crufts a couple of years ago who looked like she was still nursing for example. But why would you want to cover it up? :001_unsure: 

All mammals have mammary glands it's sort of in the job description. Well except platypus but they're just weird.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> Boys are meant to have nipples too! Jeez my furkids must be freaks.. lol they both just look like puppies underneath. JJ has had his pompoms removed but his fluffy trousers are so fluffy you wouldn't see them anyway! ... and yes he does still have his 'dangly bit'.. lol!
> 
> I'll have to get some pics and put them up later!


No,no,no , I don't want to see a photo of JJ's dangly bit ! Not sure it's allowed anyway , doggy porn surely ? I could retaliate with a photo of Tango's nipples I suppose but she;s lying on them at the moment.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Very bizarre thread this is!

To not adopt a dog due to it having nipples seems a very naive thing really but then there are equally stupid and bizarre reasons from people who give up dogs!

To be honest I have never even thought about it but both my dogs are long haired and I don't really make it a habits of playing a "find her nipples" game


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

IncathePup ..... I'm sorry but for once I am just about speechless ..... I'm not having a go or anything but I honestly had no idea something like 'bits' (whether on a male or female dog) would even come into the equation when considering a dog 

Sorry I'm really not trying to be cheeky but I can't understand why that would even be a factor in the decision 


Maisie had her pups with her when I first met her ..... her nipples / glands were quite naturally HUGE - they were still pretty huge when she arrived after they were weaned!

Now ..... well if I go hunting for them I can find them pretty easily but they're not really prominent ... she does have a lot of excess skin though that hangs down underneath her - result from several pregnancies & weight gain / loss several times I guess 

Did that put me off having her ..... I can say hand on heart it never even entered my head


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

I was gobsmacked as well Inca really have I ever never heard such .............words fail me 


On the opposite end of the 'what creeps you out scale'  I have a male friend who always makes a point of commenting on a bitches nipples as he gives tummy rubs :sosp:









He has a female dog himself and its just an unthinking habitual thing he says, he is mortified every time we point it out :devil:


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

This is Chelsea my 43rd rescue beagle. She was a breeding bitch and as you can see it's not just nipples on show. She isn't much better a year on even though she has now been neutered. We luvs her anyway.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

SusieRainbow said:


> Rude boy ! Hence the expression 'hung like a stallion '??
> Taliking of nipples how are Bess's ?


Hard 

Message too short apparently!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Sarah H said:


> The first pic is from her very *first proper walk (... months ago), when she was still not completely
> healed*, so all effort was being put into getting her better.
> 
> The second pic is *much-more recent*... she's lost some... fat already, & is looking in better condition.


thanks for that update, i'm so happy she's making progress; getting fat off dogs & building lean muscle
is VERY much a long-term process, i know it takes months on end. Dogs are very good at maintaining their
current / accustomed body-condition; i have literally seen dogs under direct vet-care, living at the clinic,
who did NOT lose wt, despite having their calorie-intake *halved -* 50%! ... because the staff didn't
increase their work-output -- for dogs to lose, it takes both: decrease input, INcrease output.


Sarah H said:


> She's much more of a plodder than a galloper... taken into a local college for a talk about dog fighting & baiting,
> she promptly went to sleep in the middle of the classroom!
> 
> She's a lucky girl, such a softy, considering she was bred until she could produce no more, then tied up
> ...


Glad she's a somewhat placid dog, hopefully her wt will go down before she pops anything [ligament, etc],
& over time she'll become a lean dog - if U find out what's not normal in her rear structure, would U be so kind
as to post an update, & pin the thread-link on my wall?

An eval by a PennHIP vet on her pelvis / femurs & knees would be a good precaution; they do 3 poses,
not only the "standing human" over-extension version of the OFA & KC hip evals, & each vet is trained to
do the radiograph interpretations on site; there's no shipping it off for an extra fee, U know immediately
what's good, bad, & how bad or how good, plus they compare WITHIN breeds - not to a single idealized standard
[which in the OFA, is a sighthound radiograph - much, much tighter angulation vs the norm in all breeds].

Do U think they'd fundraise for her care?
i'd kick in for a PennHIP eval, if they'd post the project on a crowdsource site that accepts PayPal funds. :yesnod:


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2014)

Meezey said:


> God help the boys with their pompoms, dangley bits AND nipples...


That would have been Lunar :lol:
He was neutered by the shelter before we got him, and having been intact for so long, he ended up with a change purse between his legs. He also had very prominent nipples from laying on hard surfaces most of his life - what I call old man nipples. Plus he had a ton of skin tags on his belly and very little hair to cover anything up.

And you know what? He was one of the best dogs ever


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

SusieRainbow said:


> No,no,no , I don't want to see a photo of JJ's dangly bit ! Not sure it's allowed anyway , doggy porn surely ? I could retaliate with a photo of Tango's nipples I suppose but she;s lying on them at the moment.


Ha ha! NOOO not his dangly bit! I meant the lack of nipples on their tummies!


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

Just a random nipple shot from Google . . . . I couldn't resist!!










Although this did make me look twice. . . Now these type of nipples would make me think twice. . . . .


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I just wondered why the dog I was told about had ended up on death row as she is so young. She's a sweet little face and lovely temperament. The only two things are visible.. ie her having a back leg missing and her having prominent nipples. 

Her original owner obviously gave her up, whether that was cos they couldn't afford her care (for whatever had been wrong with her leg..I don't know all the details). Obviously with a leg missing and visible nipples she no longer looks like a cute puppy.

The lady said she was a lovely dog who walked beautifully on a lead and seemed to get on great with both dogs and people..so why did the poor thing end up on death row in the first place??


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

This thread has really made me chuckle....not being disrespectful to you OP,
But I kind of understand where your coming from as in "big hanging" nipples are concerned cos they kind of freak me out too as I would be scared to groom them properly, and also they remind me of what state mine are at the age of 62  , 
Millie's only got a little larger at the time of her seasons and then went back to normal, but since she was spayed in January when she was 2yr old they have shrank and stayed at the stage of the human equivalent of "little fried eggs" :lol:.....
But because I have never had dealings with dogs who had puppies I just assumed they went back to normal after.....
On refection though, mine never ever did so why should I assume dogs do


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

CaliDog said:


> Sorry, but I really don't see why [visible / obvious nipples] would affect your decision?
> 
> Does it really matter?
> 
> It won't make a slight bit of difference to [their] character or temperament... which is the most important thing IMHO


Ppl care about different things; obviously, some folks want a particular color or pattern [B&T, spots on Dals,
blue eyes, bicolor eyes, merle, blue-Belton, etc]; some like prick ears, others rose or dropped -

visible or flat nipples is just one more detail. It may not matter to many, but obviously for the OP,
it looks "weird", cuz s/he isn't accustomed to seeing them.

For breeders, it's perfectly normal. For folks in New England, it's uncommon to see intact dogs on the street, as S/N has
surpassed 60% in male dogs, & is well-over 70% in F dogs.

"Visible teats" is generally a multipara [multiple litters] trait - particularly *extended teats* on aged bitches
who've whelped a dozen or more litters in their lifetimes; i've written elsewhere about the poor old Bluetick
bitch i met at my then-consort's friend's house; this ignorant but well-meaning couple bought a Bluetick,
were assured she was "about 3-YO", & they bred her.

When i saw this pathetic creature, chained to a doghouse beside their driveway, i was horrified;
she had teats AS LONG AS MY INDEX-FINGER, elbow-calluses that looked like tennis balls sliced in half,
inverted, & glued to the joint, & was obviously *12-YO* at the very minimum; i estimated her true age at 15-YO.
She was a boney old Granny, who'd whelped NINE pups!... only 1 of which was still alive. :nonod: She had brained
about 3 of them with the heavy calf-chain she dragged, charging out of her box to bark at cars pulling in, & hitting
the poor babes with the chain - each link was of metal the diameter of my pinky-tip. The whole length probly
weighed 12 to 15#.

3 or 4 other pups faded & died, either of parasite load or malnutrition - they weren't feeding her PUPPY food
[high fat, high protein] to maintain herself AND her lactation, they fed her cheap Ol' Roy [$8 on sale for 40#].
She couldn't possibly maintain her body & produce milk for 9 infants on that cr*p, even if she ate unlimited
quantities - it's garbage.

The sole survivor was a balloon-bellied scrawny bitch, who spent the majority of the day *asleep* while being
carried about like a stuffed toy by their 5-YO son, who adored the pup but had no idea of rest, feeding, etc.
:yikes: I spoke to the wife - my consort & her hubby were deep in man-talk  - & explained what the pup needed.

Before we left, she shoved the puppy into my hands & said, _"Just take her - she's gonna die, i'll tell 'em
she died..." _ I felt awful, & didn't want a puppy, but i didn't want the poor thing to die, either.

My consort kept gloomily claiming, _"She's gonna *die*..."_ all the way home, & for the next week.
I weighed her at the hardware store - at 8-WO, she weighed *1.5 #* - her haircoat was sparse & harsh,
her belly was FULL of worms, her skeleton was underdeveloped, & she had almost no muscle at all. Her belly
was distended & had no muscle-tone; it felt like a water-balloon in my hands.

I fed her cottage cheese, egg, raw-garlic, & decent adult-cat food; i gave her slowly increasing amounts
of garlic, from 1/2 tsp per meal to 1.5-tsp per meal. FOR TWO DAYS, she excreted nothing but urine & *worms*,
like piles of spaghetti! -- horrible; i had her squat on paper-plates & sealed plate & all in closed bags, then put
the bags directly in the trash.

I named her Gidget [a useless doodad], & she grew like Topsy.  In 10-days, she'd doubled her body-weight,
her coat was smooth & glossy, her head-bones were covered, her skeleton was apparently normal, muscles were
visible, she had a WAIST... she was alert, lively & active, & noisy! --- hounds love the sound of their own voices. :lol:

At 12-WO, she weighed 14#, was muscle from one end to the other, & looked gorgeous. I found an adopter who had
3 other coonhounds & loved to hunt; he thought she was wonderful, she liked him. Bye, Gidget!... :001_smile:

One funny thing - every time i cut garlic for any dish, Gidget would barrel into the kitchen & beg, :lol: - 
i told Mike [consort] that she was obviously Italian.  The only downside of the garlic-for-worms treatment was
that when she BURPED, her breath would set yer eyebrows afire,  & make yer eyes water. But a small price
for a nontoxic evacuation order for all parasites. :thumbsup:


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

CaliDog said:


> Just a random nipple shot from Google . . . . I couldn't resist!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Ha ha!! :lol: you see Inca doesn't have that at all (the first pic!) and she's now 13years old, she's asleep now so I'd have to try and get a photo tomorrow. her coat goes right down her tummy and of course she's mostly black but if she had some raised like that you would feel them or see the ends as her coat is very fine and short.

I would have thought a dog with nipples like those must have had pups at some point in their life. Could it be to do with age they're neutered at?


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

leashedForLife said:


> *Ppl care about different things; obviously, some folks want a particular color or pattern [B&T, spots on Dals,
> blue eyes, bicolor eyes, merle, blue-Belton, etc]; some like prick ears, others rose or dropped -*
> 
> visible or flat nipples is just one more detail. It may not matter to many, but obviously for the OP,
> ...


I understand that but this is about nipples!! All bitchs have them it's not like a pick and choose situation. . . . .

Well in the OPs opinion it is, I just don't get it? ?


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2014)

Sorry OP but I find this thread quite bizarre! 

McKenzie has long belly fur so her nipples don't show. I have occasionally come felt them and freaked, thinking it was a lump or tick or something, but then I realise it's just a nipple  Her nipples certainly don't 'gross me out'.


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

Some people must be thoroughly weirded out by my whippet boys. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverything is on show, nipples, ********, the lot.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> Some people must be thoroughly weirded out by my whippet boys. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverything is on show, nipples, ********, the lot.


Was that supposed to be ball bags? :lol:


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> I just wondered why the dog I was told about had ended up on death row as she is so young. She's a sweet little face and lovely temperament. The only two things are visible.. ie her having a back leg missing and her having prominent nipples.
> 
> Her original owner obviously gave her up, whether that was cos they couldn't afford her care (for whatever had been wrong with her leg..I don't know all the details). Obviously with a leg missing and visible nipples she no longer looks like a cute puppy.
> 
> The lady said she was a lovely dog who walked beautifully on a lead and seemed to get on great with both dogs and people..so why did the poor thing end up on death row in the first place??


You will never know why a dog was given up by its previous owner unless you are that owner. Even the owners lie when handing in a dog in a effort to make themselves feel better.


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## springerpete (Jun 24, 2010)

Just raced through this post................Baffled, Dogs have testicles unless they've been removed, bitches have nipples. What's to discuss. ???????


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

MyMillie said:


> This thread has really made me chuckle....not being disrespectful to you OP,
> But I kind of understand where your coming from as in "big hanging" nipples are concerned cos they kind of freak me out too as I would be scared to groom them properly, and also they remind me of what state mine are at the age of 62  ,
> Millie's only got a little larger at the time of her seasons and then went back to normal, but since she was spayed in January when she was 2yr old they have shrank and stayed at the stage of the human equivalent of "little fried eggs" :lol:.....
> But because I have never had dealings with dogs who had puppies I just assumed they went back to normal after.....
> On refection though, mine never ever did so why should I assume dogs do


Wow, you've had puppies ?? 
My boobs returned pretty much back to pre-pregnancy once I stopped breast feeding - my tummy's a different story though , is it ok to have a mummy-tummy 31 years after the birth ?


----------



## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

SusieRainbow said:


> Wow, you've had puppies ??
> My boobs returned pretty much back to pre-pregnancy once I stopped breast feeding - my tummy's a different story though , is it ok to have a mummy-tummy 31 years after the birth ?


Hey you!... I meant my 4 "human babies" .... sadly I have the "mummy's apron" as you probably noticed :001_tt2:


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

you're missing the point...the reason I was surprised by the visible nipples on this little dog which I was told was neutered is because Inca has none at all that you can see or feel under her fur.

So I thought they only developed after a bitch had puppies. I guess I wasn't expecting to see them on a dog who I thought was so young after all she is around the same age as JJ who still has that fluffy puppy look! (which maybe cos he has longer fluffy coat but that's besides the point). 

Inca also looked much younger at an older age than this young dog...my point was I was surprised by them been so visible on a young dog that had been spayed. I thought she must have either been used for puppies then dumped or something to do with her leg (like owner not been able to afford care so maybe the rescue or someone had paid for that op). 

I thought if a bitch was spayed young they would not develop (like Inca's..she's the only bitch I've ever owned) Until someone said earlier that they can still have them even if they hadn't had a litter, it just never occurred to me that they would even if spayed very young!


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

CaliDog said:


> ...but this is about nipples!! All bitches have them -- it's not like a pick & choose situation.
> 
> Well, in the OP's opinion it is, I just don't get it?


they can resemble thumb-tacks - little flat discs, barely distinguished from surrounding skin, the aureole
minimally darker than the skin's pale pigment [most dogs' skin is pale pinky-white, it doesn't TAN ever,
& also only calluses when they are housed on hard surfaces & not given padded areas to rest on] -

or they can resemble pencil-erasers, little cylindrical buttons down the torso...

or they can look like pinky-tips, a small fingerlike projection...

or they can be FINGERS of flabby tissue, very prominent, with or without a "skirt" of fringelike hanging skin.

Pediatric desex usually results in the first version - almost-invisible thumb tacks, plus an undeveloped vulva.

Juvenile desex also often has thumb-tack nipples & undersized vulva.

Pubertal [5 to 8-MO] desex usually has pencil-eraser nipples & a normal vulva.

Primapara [one litter] or phantom-preganancy[ies] before desex, usually has pinky-tip nipples & normal vulva.

MULTIpara [many litters] usually has finger-teats plus a possible "skirt" of hanging skin, & often an oversized
vulva, too.

BTW, males who are pediatric desex have underdeveloped prepuces - this isn't a problem, but some M owners
think it looks weird, & don't like it.  Then we have the hardcore folks, who want their desexed male
to have Neuticle implants... about which the less said, the better, except that they NEVER should have developed
"a lifelike feel" version; the 'apparent look' was IMO plenty good enuf. :nonod:


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## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

leashedForLife said:


> they can resemble thumb-tacks - little flat discs, barely distinguished from surrounding skin, the aureole
> minimally darker than the skin's pale pigment [most dogs' skin is pale pinky-white, it doesn't TAN ever,
> & also only calluses when they are housed on hard surfaces & not given padded areas to rest on] -
> 
> ...


Oh wow . . . . Am not even going there they are nipples for gods sake what does it matter?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> you're missing the point...the reason I was surprised by the visible nipples on this little dog which I was told was neutered is because Inca has none at all that you can see or feel under her fur.
> 
> So I thought they only developed after a bitch had puppies. I guess I wasn't expecting to see them on a dog who I thought was so young after all she is around the same age as JJ who still has that fluffy puppy look! (which maybe cos he has longer fluffy coat but that's besides the point).
> 
> ...


Like humans bits and bobs, dogs bits and bobs can all look very different! Little, large, flat, sticky outy........


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> I've never seen a dog with visible nipples unless it was shown on TV feeding puppies.
> 
> Actually our male dogs when we were growing up (both entire and short haired breeds) both had visible private parts. JJ was snipped more for behavioural reasons as he's so long coated especially around his back end that you wouldn't be able to see them anyway.
> 
> ...


I can't believe I am reading this. Are you sure you are not just saying it as a joke 

And of course your dogs have nipples - all animals of both sexes have nipples. they might not be very visible particularly if Inca was spayed at 4 months - what on earth was that done for! but she will have exactly the same number of nipples as she would have if she had had puppies.



BessieDog said:


> I hope the OP never comes across a male horse in the relaxed position. Now that is an impressive dangly bit.
> 
> My friend was in a horse showing show once. She was in the in hand class, and was holding her horses head as the judge walked round it. We were watching and trying to make gestures to her, she was just smiling back thinking we were waving. What she didn't know was that her horse was showing off rather more of his -er, equipment- than the judge would normally see!!


Mine all dangle a fair bit but I have one that gets really quite excited and whacks his belly fairly impressively. He fell in love with a cob mare at a show last week, most embarrassing for the 13 year old girl that was riding him as we all sniggered.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> they can resemble thumb-tacks - little flat discs, barely distinguished from surrounding skin, the aureole
> minimally darker than the skin's pale pigment [most dogs' skin is pale pinky-white, it doesn't TAN ever,
> & also only calluses when they are housed on hard surfaces & not given padded areas to rest on] -
> 
> ...


That's really interesting I never knew that. Inca was spayed at 4 months old that maybe why she 's always appeared to not have any...with black fur all around the area it would be very difficult to see if they aren't raised at all to feel anything.

JJ was snipped at 9 months.. his furry plums weren't that big and his erm .. 'little man' isn't as large as our last male dog (when I lived at home..though he was entire) even though they are around the same size height/weight wise.

As small breeds mature quicker and usually classed as adult by 9 month old what age would be classed as paediatric desex in small breed to be done before her first season? (as heard they can come earlier in toy breeds)


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Blitz said:


> I can't believe I am reading this. Are you sure you are not just saying it as a joke
> 
> And of course your dogs have nipples - all animals of both sexes have nipples. they might not be very visible particularly if Inca was spayed at 4 months - what on earth was that done for! but she will have exactly the same number of nipples as she would have if she had had puppies.


I got Inca from a local rescue she was already done.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

leashedForLife said:


> they can resemble thumb-tacks - little flat discs, barely distinguished from surrounding skin, the aureole
> minimally darker than the skin's pale pigment [most dogs' skin is pale pinky-white, it doesn't TAN ever,
> & also only calluses when they are housed on hard surfaces & not given padded areas to rest on] -
> 
> ...


Oh, good Heavens, they're nipples!

All dogs have them, we have them.

I have to say, if nipples are a 'deal breaker', then what on Earth is the OP looking for?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> I got Inca from a local rescue she was already done.


Not very usual in the UK. I am not sure how I feel about it. Obviously not down to you


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Is it weird that I find Skip's nipples cute?  

I only discovered them last week whilst giving belly rubs and I couldn't help but say to him in a really patronising voice, "Aww, look. You have ickle nipples" lol! 

As for horses... Don't even get me started!!! Cooper loves to air his parts, only when we're in public though  utterly mortifying for me, yet he stands there, proud as punch like a dude!

*shudder*


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Oh, good Heavens, they're nipples!
> 
> All dogs have them, we have them.
> 
> I have to say, if nipples are a 'deal breaker', then what on Earth is the OP looking for?


At the risk of repeating myself! 
*
Originally Posted by IncaThePup: *
_you're missing the point...the reason I was surprised by the visible nipples on this little dog which I was told was neutered is because Inca has none at all that you can see or feel under her fur.

So I thought they only developed after a bitch had puppies. I guess I wasn't expecting to see them on a dog who I thought was so young after all she is around the same age as JJ who still has that fluffy puppy look! (which maybe cos he has longer fluffy coat but that's besides the point).

Inca also looked much younger at an older age than this young dog...my point was I was surprised by them been so visible on a young dog that had been spayed. I thought she must have either been used for puppies then dumped or something to do with her leg (like owner not been able to afford care so maybe the rescue or someone had paid for that op).

I thought if a bitch was spayed young they would not develop (like Inca's..she's the only bitch I've ever owned) Until someone said earlier that they can still have them even if they hadn't had a litter, it just never occurred to me that they would even if spayed very young!_


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Not very usual in the UK. I am not sure how I feel about it. Obviously not down to you


What had happened was my SIL had rung the rescue on the Fri arranged for us to go there on the Monday and look at some dogs. When we got there Inca had been handed in at the weekend.

It seems the previous owners had her done to try and calm her down as she was hyper and had obviously been told it would help to calm her down and it didn't so they dumped her! Her scar was still quite new so they'd only given it a week or two after the op before deciding it hadn't worked and getting rid of her! 

Inca was very hyper, but absolutely adorable! She took alot more work than JJ has actually. (I was expecting him to be hard work cos he's Border Collie and he's actually more laid back) He's way ahead of where she was at his age..obedience wise etc.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I can't believe I am reading this. Are you sure you are not just saying it as a joke
> 
> And of course your dogs have nipples - all animals of both sexes have nipples. they might not be very visible particularly if Inca was spayed at 4 months - what on earth was that done for! but she will have exactly the same number of nipples as she would have if she had had puppies.
> 
> *Mine all dangle a fair bit but I have one that gets really quite excited* and whacks his belly fairly impressively. He fell in love with a cob mare at a show last week, most embarrassing for the 13 year old girl that was riding him as we all sniggered.


For a moment I thought you were talking about your nipples 



Inca, seriously think about it, do you have nipples, do you have children, does your dad/brother/nephew have nipples? What is one of the defining features of mammals? They feed they young on milk. I dont have children but I most certainly have nipples


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

IncaThePup said:


> ...
> 
> Inca was spayed at 4-MO... maybe why she's always appeared to [have none]... with black fur all around,
> it would be very difficult to see [them], if they aren't raised [enuf] to [be felt].
> ...


Yes, that she was spayed before her 1st-estrus does make a difference in development.

The testosterone-peak in male teen-dogs occurs over a 4 to 6-week period, around 9-MO into 10-MO;
testosterone at that time can be at levels *5 to 7 times* that found in intact-males who are 12 to 15-MO
or older, so yes! - it's a massive "super-male" period, when they reek of male hormones & other dogs will
often harass, react, provoke, pick-on, etc, the "super-male" pup. Thankfully, it's a stage.

I tell my clients / neighbors / relatives that for the sake of their dog's emotional equanimity, as well as their
own peace of mind, unless they intend to breed, snip their male pup by 6 to 8-MO; if he's highly reactive to other Ms,
do it as soon as that rears its ugly head [often between 4-MO & 6-MO, sometimes as young as 12-WO / 3-MO].

Some breeds are notable for M:M aggro, & there's no reason to keep a pet-prospect male JRT intact past 5-MO -
that's one of the [many] breeds who frequently become M:M aggro.


IncaThePup said:


> As small breeds mature quicker & usually classed as [physically] adult by 9-MO, what age would be classed
> as paediatric desex in small breeds [i-e, spayed before first estrus] - as I've heard they can come [into estrus]
> earlier, in toy breeds?


Puberty doesn't vary much across SIZE - 
6-MO is smack-dab in the middle of puberty, & prime-time for desex in both genders of any breed.
It's been the standard for over 60-years, but frankly, if it's available, do it sooner - they bleed less, heal faster,
& have far-fewer risks of complications of any kind.

Like any other F, i'd desex a bitch-pup no later than 5-MO or 5.5-MO at the latest, but size really doesn't
make that much difference in "early" --- Giant breeds & mixes are more likely to possibly be "late", having
their 1st estrus at 8 to 9-MO rather than 6-MO, but i see no reason to wait; it doesn't need to "work", U can simply
desex them before the event. There's nothing to wait FOR, unless U want to breed her - & then U have a YEAR-plus
to wait, as some tests can't be definitive until 24-MO, & *waiting until both the prospective parents are at least
2-YO, adds an average of two years to the lifespan of their pups.* :thumbup:


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

leashedForLife said:


> Yes, that she was spayed before her 1st-estrus does make a difference in development.
> 
> The testosterone-peak in male teen-dogs occurs over a 4 to 6-week period, around 9-MO into 10-MO;
> testosterone at that time can be at levels *5 to 7 times* that found in intact-males who are 12 to 15-MO
> ...


Oh now, that's your opinion.

I have never had a bitch spayed or a dog castrated at four/five months old.

I prefer, with bitches, to wait until three months after the first season

I find it a little alarming that you're advising your clients to have their young pups neutered. I would rather be advised by my vet.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

My vet advises to do it early as well.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

_"one of these things is not like the others..."_ Singing:









Pigment:







shape:







pregnancy:








NOT normal -
What happens when an ar$ewipe takes the whole LITTER off the dam at once:

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content








& yes, it's very, *very* painful. :mad5: Don't do that! - remove ONE pup, wait 24-hours, repeat...
if there is heat or swelling, go to 48-hrs between, removing 1 pup at a time.

Also, ask the vet about medication to gradually reduce lactation. :thumbsup:


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

leashedForLife said:


> Yes, that she was spayed before her 1st-estrus does make a difference in development.
> 
> The testosterone-peak in male teen-dogs occurs over a 4 to 6-week period, around 9-MO into 10-MO;
> testosterone at that time can be at levels *5 to 7 times* that found in intact-males who are 12 to 15-MO
> ...


How the hell can you tell that a 12 week old puppy is 'highly reactive' to other males, and needs to be neutered? It will hardly have started its vaccinations yet, so I'm not sure how many males it could have met!

I find your posts very sad, and the very very early neutering policies in the USA sadder still.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

GingerRogers said:


> For a moment I thought you were talking about your nipples
> 
> 
> 
> Inca, seriously think about it, do you have nipples, do you have children, does your dad/brother/nephew have nipples? What is one of the defining features of mammals? They feed they young on milk. I dont have children but I most certainly have nipples


but we're human!! ..As I said Inca is the first and only bitch I've ever owned and she's never appeared to have any nipples and I knew she had been spayed really young I thought it had maybe interfered with the development as she'd been done before her first season, so she stayed 'puppy-like'.

Again in JJ they are not visible and he was neutered fairly young. I thought there must be a connection.

I've never had kids or been interested in having kids so tbh I've never really given it any thought. Of course I knew they got bigger when have milk to feed kids or their young on (for animals) but Inca's never had a litter and this other dog had not either, so was just genuinely surprised they were so visible on a young neutered dog!


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> but we're human!! ..As I said Inca is the first and only bitch I've ever owned and she's never appeared to have any nipples and I knew she had been spayed really young I thought it had maybe interfered with the development as she'd been done before her first season, so she stayed 'puppy-like'.
> 
> Again in JJ they are not visible and he was neutered fairly young. I thought there must be a connection.
> 
> I've never had kids or been interested in having kids so tbh I've never really given it any thought. Of course I knew they got bigger when have milk to feed kids or their young on (for animals) but Inca's never had a litter and this other dog had not either, so was just genuinely surprised they were so visible on a young neutered dog!


Bess has always had quite prominent nipples. But then so did my (male) cocker spaniel. All dogs are different.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> *but we're human*!! ..As I said Inca is the first and only bitch I've ever owned and she's never appeared to have any nipples and I knew she had been spayed really young I thought it had maybe interfered with the development as she'd been done before her first season, so she stayed 'puppy-like'.
> 
> Again in JJ they are not visible and he was neutered fairly young. I thought there must be a connection.
> 
> I've never had kids or been interested in having kids so tbh I've never really given it any thought. Of course I knew they got bigger when have milk to feed kids or their young on (for animals) but Inca's never had a litter and this other dog had not either, so was just genuinely surprised they were so visible on a young neutered dog!


But we are mammals


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Oh now, that's *your opinion*.
> I've never had a bitch spayed or a dog castrated at 4-MO or 5-MO.
> 
> I prefer... to wait until 3-months after the first [estrus].


That 1st estrus does increase the risk of mammary cancer - which is FOUR TIMES as common in F dogs
as it is in F humans, where we make a huge fuss about it, tho the risk is 25% that for F dogs.

Also, it's not as tho "my opinion" is unique, or some wild-eyed outlier - it's a very common opinion. 
Plus, *IncaThePup* specifically asked how early U need to spay to avoid 1st-estrus in toy-bitches.


Sweety said:


> I find it a little alarming that [you advise] your clients to have their young pups neutered.
> I'd rather be advised by my vet.


My specialty is B-Mod for already-established problem behaviors - i don't teach cued behaviors, except as part
of that process; i work with dog-reactive /aggro, human-reactive / aggro, timid, globally fearful, & other highly
emotional & often frustrating or scary issues, such as OCD, nuisance barking, sep-anx, & so on.

My suggestion that they desex their dog of whatever gender no later than 6 to 7-MO is simple; i give behavioral
reasons & cite health concerns - when the particular dog has a specific ISSUE that is worsened by sexual hormones,
i emphasize the need to make B-Mod both easier & more effective.

If they want to be advised by their vet, they'll schedule an appt, & pay a full office-fee for that consult.
My suggestions are just that - i don't perform desex surgeries; i give them the info, they make a decision.
My fee - if there IS one, as i also do pro-bono -- covers all my time; my initial consults run about 2-hours.

U, of course, can desex Ur dog at whatever age U wish - as my clients, neighbors, relatives, et al, can. :yesnod:
Or U can keep every dog U ever own reproductively intact for their entire lifespan - it's YOUR choice. 

BTW, do note the TITLE of the comment? --- the OP asked at what age a toy-sized bitch should be spayed,
in order to avoid the 1st estrus. I answered her Q; it's available all over the 'Net, as it's *factual*, not opinion. 
.
.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> but we're human!! ..As I said Inca is the first and only bitch I've ever owned and she's never appeared to have any nipples and I knew she had been spayed really young I thought it had maybe interfered with the development as she'd been done before her first season, so she stayed 'puppy-like'.
> 
> Again in JJ they are not visible and he was neutered fairly young. I thought there must be a connection.
> 
> I've never had kids or been interested in having kids so tbh I've never really given it any thought. Of course I knew they got bigger when have milk to feed kids or their young on (for animals) but Inca's never had a litter and this other dog had not either, so was just genuinely surprised they were so visible on a young neutered dog!


But what is the problem with nipples?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

leashedForLife said:


> That 1st estrus does increase the risk of mammary cancer - which is FOUR TIMES as common in F dogs
> as it is in F humans, where we make a huge fuss about it, tho the risk is 25% that for F dogs.
> 
> Also, it's not as tho "my opinion" is unique, or some wild-eyed outlier - it's a very common opinion.
> ...


Again, that's your opinion. We know we can avoid a bitch having her first season by having her spayed as a pup, but why would we?

Why would we not take the advice of our vet and use our own common sense?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

And what do you mean by we make a "huge fuss" about mammary tumours in humans?


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Sweety said:


> But what is the problem with nipples?


I was watching a 70's TV program a while ago, and was reminded of how normal it used to be to walk round in a t-shirt without a bra - obviously nipples making it obvious.

I was quite envious to be back in those times (well, I've never been well endowed, and bras are irritating annoyances to me).

Presumably the OP wouldn't have liked to have been around then.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Sweety said:


> But what is the problem with nipples?


*I just wasn't expecting to see them* on that young dog given that Inca had never had any visible ones and had also never had a season or pups!

*I thought* they only appeared on more mature female dogs that had had a litter of pups because they were needed to feed the pups, which is the only time I had seen a female dog with large visible nipples (and then only on TV..never known anyone in person having a litter to go see them been fed or a bitch going through pregnancy etc).

so wondered if this had been why she hadn't been adopted and ended up on death row or whether it was because of her missing leg. ..was just curious to see which other people thought?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

BessieDog said:


> ...
> I find... the very, very early neutering policies in the USA [sad].


Pardon me, but shelters & rescues in the UK also desex pups & kittens BEFORE they are allowed to leave
their possession, do they not?...

The average rate of COMPLIANCE with desex agreements of shelter-pets in the USA is *40%* - leaving
6 of every 10 adopted dogs, *intact*, & frequently resulting in progeny & grandpups coming back to that
shelter, adding to the pet-popn problem, crowding, shortening hold times, etc.

What would U like to suggest as an alternative? --- Kill all the pups?
Place only desexed adults? /// Find foster-homes who will HOLD every pup til they're 6-MO?

How many intact 7 to 8-WO bitches would U be willing to house & care for, as foster pups, until they are
90-days past that ever-so-necessary 1st-estrus, get them desexed, & put them up for adoption?...
Returning them to the shelter for prospective adopters to see them, & meet them?

Australian shelters & rescues do pediatric desex, too - it's not some sort of Draconian USA-plot. 
Most industrialized countries with many municipal shelters desex adoptees before placement; it's a common standard.

*South Africa* is one of the very few countries that I know of, that's considered industrialized but does
NOT desex adult dogs before placing them in adoptive homes, & they even house INTACT Ms & Fs in shared
runs - which i think is asinine, frankly. :thumbdown:


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

leashedForLife said:


> Pardon me, but shelters & rescues in the UK also desex pups & kittens BEFORE they are allowed to leave
> their possession, do they not?...
> 
> The average rate of COMPLIANCE with desex agreements of shelter-pets in the USA is *40%* - leaving
> ...


Those are Shelters, rehoming dogs and who need to be certain they can't be bred from though.

As the owner of one pet bitch or dog, the same can't apply.

We will choose the best time, as opposed to the necessary time.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Charcoal-&-white Smithfield type nursing dam, going out to herd...
bad idea, IMO.







pregnant bitch in a 3rd-world shelter







Mastitis in 1 teat, 48-hrs after onset, flanked by 2 normal teats
[Engl Mastiff]

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content








Nursing dam who lost her litter







starving stray who's nursing a litter


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

It is most certainly not the norm in the Uk. It is becoming so but there is a big movement against it amongst behaviorists and trainers. Rightly so I believe, based on my admittedly much narrower experience than L4L. Contrary to your evidence L4L all V early neuters I know have both behavioral and physical 'deficiencies' for want of a better word  perhaps quirks would be fairer.

We can only base our decisions and opinions on personal experience taking on board others but not bowing to it.

BUT it doesn't matter how ruddy early they will still have nipples male and female and its normal and not something that should be covered.

I get that its not something you are comfortable with Inca and although I find that unusual its fair enough, I am not entirely comfortable with male dogs bits and the licklicksllick and way they seem to be prominent in every photo @@ but I am gobsmacked you didnt know this basic bit of biology, nothing to do with dogs.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Note the *arrow* -
a mammary tumor; the cancer is eating the dog.







pregnant stray







primapara, after the pups are weaned / sold








*Warning:* graphic images - 
14 day photo-log of gangrenous mastitis in a Mastiff
A CASE OF GANGRENE MASTITIS


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> *I just wasn't expecting to see them* on that young dog given that Inca had never had any visible ones and had also never had a season or pups!
> 
> *I thought* they only appeared on more mature female dogs that had had a litter of pups because they were needed to feed the pups, which is the only time I had seen a female dog with large visible nipples (and then only on TV..never known anyone in person having a litter to go see them been fed or a bitch going through pregnancy etc).
> 
> so wondered if this had been why she hadn't been adopted and ended up on death row or whether it was because of her missing leg. ..was just curious to see which other people thought?


All mammals have nipples males and females, all different shapes and sizes, all different at different ages, whether they have had babies or not nipples like viginas and penises are very natural and part of nature, you have different shaped and sized nipples male or females babies or no babies.....I doubt people took issues with her nipples over an amputated limb?


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

GingerRogers said:


> It is most certainly not the norm in the Uk. It is becoming so but there is a big movement against it amongst behaviorists and trainers. Rightly so I believe, based on my admittedly much narrower experience than L4L. Contrary to your evidence L4L all V early neuters I know have both behavioral and physical 'deficiencies' for want of a better word  perhaps quirks would be fairer.
> 
> We can only base our decisions and opinions on personal experience taking on board others but not bowing to it.
> 
> ...


I do not find some of these pictures posted by L4L appealing to be honest and would not want to adopt a dog that looked like that, although of course I'd feel very sorry for them because of how they looked. To me some of those dogs look in worse shape than a dog with just a limb missing!

As I said *you cannot see or feel them on either of my two*. I'll take pic tomorrow. Both of who were neutered early.

After all a season is same as females first period and we don't develop breasts until we reach early teens and have our first period etc...if we had policy to give hysterectomy to kids before their bodies started changing so we couldn't get pregnant would that not have an impact on other things like development of breasts?

I'm sure I remember seeing a case in the papers of an american family that wanted their severely physically & learning disabled daughter to have an hysterectomy before her periods started so they wouldn't have to deal with her periods and she would stay small and easy to lift!

so Inca also effectively had the hormones removed before the time came, as she never 'appeared' to develop nipples then surely early neutering would have the same effects on all mammals?


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> *I do not find some of these pictures posted by L4L appealing to be honest* and would not want to adopt a dog that looked like that, although of course I'd feel very sorry for them because of how they looked. To me some of those dogs look in worse shape than a dog with just a limb missing!
> 
> As I said *you cannot see or feel them on either of my two*. I'll take pic tomorrow. Both of who were neutered early.
> 
> ...


And that bolded is fair enough but no, we dont develop breasts because of periods, they arrive at a similar time but one does not precede the other, But anyway nipples are nipple not breasts


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

The hormones might influence development, we know that many castratti boys castrated before puberty for their singing voices :001_unsure: grew abnormally tall and lanky. But your period doesn't cause you to develop breasts  it scares me how little some people know about their bodies.

L4l can you stop with the photos? They're physically painful to look at.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I am sorry to say I am shocked and rather saddened to think that someone would turn down a dog based purely on their nipples, even more so that the appearance of something so natural would over ride concerns of long term effects of a amputated limb or long term welfare and possibly the life of a dog... I honestly thought there was nothing that could upset me on this forum, I might get angry at things, people might annoy me, but this just upsets me, a dog deemed not good enough because of the life humans have made them live.....


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

I understand what you mean about the aesthetics of large nipples on dogs, it puts me off too.

Quinn's nipples are completely flat to his body, they are just darker black circles and Pixie only has tiny raised lumps (but she is not spayed) which are okay but sometimes when i see the ex breeding dogs i am put off by the way it looks. 

I suppose if the dog was perfect in every other way and they had to be spayed anyway, you could have the mammary strip removed (mastectomy). This also stops the chance of mammary cancer. I wouldn't choose it personally but people have done madder stuff to their dog purely for aesthetics and many people say a big plus of spaying is no chance of endometriosis and ovarian, etc cancers so you could use the same logic for mastectomy on dogs who have been used for breeding.


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

Meezey said:


> I am sorry to say I am shocked and rather saddened to think that someone would turn down a dog based purely on their nipples, even more so that the appearance of something so natural would over ride concerns of long term effects of a amputated limb or long term welfare and possibly the life of a dog... I honestly thought there was nothing that could upset me on this forum, I might get angry at things, people might annoy me, but this just upsets me, a dog deemed not good enough because of the life humans have made them live.....


People turn down 3 legged dogs and dogs with deformed limbs or one eyed dogs everyday, why is this any different?

I would turn down a long haired dog that was other wise perfect. Not completely aesthetics, but close enough. Does that make me a horrible person? I'd probably turn down a brindle dog who was otherwise perfect. If you don't love everything about that dog, then they aren't your perfect dog.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

i don't get upset with folks who have a list of Do's & Don'ts for what they WANT in a dog -
that's fine! It shows they've actually thought about it, altho hopefully it includes more than appearance -
for instance, do they mind a dog who's reactive & may be barky? Do they prefer dogs who are friendly
& highly sociable, or cool to strangers? How active a dog?...

What i HATE to see are folks who get rid of their dog because s/he no longer pleases them - literally,
the folks who surrender their dog cuz they redecorated & the dog no longer complements the decor. 
WTH - they had the dog right THERE, why didn't they take along a sample of their hair, or take an OUTDOOR
photo for true color, & carry it along?... :sosp: I think that's inexcusable.

My mum's best friend did stuff like that over & over again; got kittens, hated cats. Got rid of kittens by 9-MO
at the latest; next spring, get another kitten... :incazzato: She got a F GSD pup, let their intact adopted mix-breed
male MATE her, then got rid of pups & dam together when the litter was 9-WO... at the same shelter where 
she'd adopted the bitch. :nono: Poor Bianca! -- & her poor pups. :nonod:


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

BeauNoir said:


> People turn down 3 legged dogs and dogs with deformed limbs or one eyed dogs everyday, why is this any different?
> 
> I would turn down a long haired dog that was other wise perfect. Not completely aesthetics, but close enough. Does that make me a horrible person? I'd probably turn down a brindle dog who was otherwise perfect. If you don't love everything about that dog, then they aren't your perfect dog.


Oh well let's see on a forum where people get a kicking for showing dogs and it all being about them only caring about looks, it's kind of ironic that people won't rescue dogs because of something perfectly naturally as nipples... The OP wasn't talking about milk bars nearly touching the floor, just nipples! And to find people suggesting mammory strips as a possible solution for cosmetic reason well icing on the cake really!

Deformities and missing limbs could have long term health implications, large nipples cause no more risk that small nipples! Rather superficial don't you think?


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

Meezey said:


> Oh well let's see on a forum where people get a kicking for showing dogs and it all being about them only caring about looks, it's kind of ironic that people won't rescue dogs because of something perfectly naturally as nipples... The OP wasn't talking about milk bars nearly touching the floor, just nipples! And to find people suggesting mammory strips as a possible solution for cosmetic reason well icing on the cake really!
> 
> Deformities and missing limbs could have long term health implications, large nipples cause no more risk that small nipples! Rather superficial don't you think?


My point about the mastectomy was that having puppies increases the risk of mammary cancer in dogs, people will spay dogs purely to stop the chance of female reproductive cancers and endometriosis, so i was saying it would be logical to use the same reasoning to stop the chance of mammary cancer and if they were going through surgery anyway. If that happened to have the added effect of making the dog more homeable, then it is another reason to do it. I did also state i would not choose to do it but i also would never choose to dock a dogs tail or have it's dew claws removed which are 'acceptable' cosmetic procedures.

By the way, i have never said anything against showing dogs, I'd show mine if they would stand up for the whole time a judge wanted to look at them. Lazy sods.

I agree it is superficial, but I am superficial about many things on dogs. Long hair, jowls, wrinkles, etc all completely put me off a dog. I think most people have a list like that.

Picking a dog is just as important as picking a partner. If they had giant nipples and that really put you off, you'd have issues. You may be able to look past them and at all the points you like, but some people will never be able to look past it fully. We just need to accept that personal preference is okay.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Meezey said:


> ... to find people suggesting [mammary] strips as a possible solution for cosmetic reasons... icing on the cake...!
> 
> Deformities and missing limbs could have long term health implications-
> *large nipples cause no more risk [than] small nipples!
> ...


*
Actually, as the previous poster DID point out  multipara bitches with fingerlike teats ARE AT INCREASED
RISK OF MAMMARY TUMORS, which - as i said - are 4x as common in intact F dogs as they are in human Fs.

The risk of mammary tumors increases approx 10% per estrus; in an insurance study in Sweden,
over 60% of all intact Fs had at least 1 case of Pyometra before they were 6-YO. Pyometra risk also increases
with the length of time the bitch is intact. My Akita had an open-Pyo when she was just 13-MO, at the end
of her 2nd estrus. I was doubly lucky: I caught it early, & it was OPEN [draining].

Breast cancer in dogs:
Over 68% of mammary tumors are malignant, & over 70% of dogs diagnosed have metastisized -
so most Fs who are found to have mammary tumors are euthanized on the same day they are Dx'ed.

Does that justify removing mammary tissue?... Why not, if she's going to be anaesthetized to be spayed?
Do it all - desex & remove the mammaries pre-emptively. I'd certainly ask my vet about that, if i were
to adopt such a former multipara bitch. IMO, it makes eminent sense.*


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

There's a difference between doing it for medical reasons and not adopting a dog just because it has prominent nipples or indeed getting rid of a family member because it develops them


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

leashedForLife said:


> Does that justify removing mammary tissue?... Why not, if she's going to be anaesthetized to be spayed?
> Do it all - desex & remove the mammaries pre-emptively. I'd certainly ask my vet about that, if i were
> to adopt such a former multipara bitch. IMO, it makes eminent sense.


I suppose it is the same thing as a woman who has a strong history of female cancers or the brca gene who would have a mastectomy and a hysterectomy to stop the risk of those cancers. A friends mother is having her mastectomy soon as she has been classed as very highly likely to contract female cancers.

If your bitch does have the finger like nipples and has had multiple litters, it would make sense to remove them when they are young and healthy rather than having them removed if and when they get cancer.

It is food for thought really if this should become a semi normal procedure for ex breeding bitches with their spaying before rehoming?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

BeauNoir said:


> I suppose it's the same... as a woman [with a family] history of female cancers or the BRCA-variant gene,
> who would have a mastectomy & a hysterectomy to stop the risk of those cancers.
> A friend's mother is having her mastectomy soon... she's... very highly likely to contract female cancers.
> 
> ...


i asked a DVM who's a member on PF-uk to come by, if they are willing, & opine on this question. :yesnod:


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

Daisy's nips have never quite gone down to what they were pre season. She's also got a weird double nipple which makes me think of Chandler from friends and his nubbin. I dont care, nipples are nipples, we've all got em.


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## Alfshuman (Apr 10, 2010)

Hmmm. If visible nipples on dogs should be covered up then maybe cows should be wearing bras?

Seriously though, whilst the original post utterly bemused me initially, reading through the whole thread, what have I learnt? 

1. neutering very, very young bitches means nipples don't develop and there are as many different types of 'normal' nipples on dogs as there are in humans 
2. we all (quite naturally) tend to think of our dog as the norm (though I have to say m husband was always quite proud of my previous dog's endowments - think he saw them as a reflection of his own)
3. they are more visible (obviously) on shorter coated than long coated dogs, so if that's what you are drawn to, it is less likely to offend the eye
4. seems dogs in the US tend to be neutered far earlier than is the norm in the UK so over here we are much more used to seeing normal nipples and dangly bits
5. some poor bitches who have had multiple litters end up with much larger nipples and have problems - but that wasn't the point of the original posting anyway, it was a question about cosmetic appearance 
6. we are all different and that's why we all like - and dislike - different characteristics in dogs. 

Thanks for a great read folks. Completely mystifying in some parts but I feel better educated - mostly about human nature and differences in opinion in different nations than I did when I started. 

Just one last question. Where can I find cow bras in bulk?


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I agree ..if I was a fosterer or a home for dogs who could afford to take in several dogs and one such dog needed a home it would be very different to only been able to get ONE dog and wanting it to be the dog you had always wanted. 

Personally I don't like the breeds with loads of wrinkles or flat faces either...nothing personal, but if I could only afford one other dog I prefer dogs with ears, noses like collies/labs...more foxy looking in the face. I'd never want a giant breed either such as a St Bernard. 

However I don't get why it's so difficult to understand that because my dog has never had visible nipples and I'd only ever seen them on bitches that had had puppies that I wasn't expecting to see nipples on this other dog that was so young?? If I'd never seen them on a dog so young like that how could I have known from experience? 

Also in my days at school you did not discuss personal things such as your body and periods at school it just was not the done thing. My boobs did not grow until after my periods started so I assumed it was same for all the other girls as my mother told me when I got to 13 my periods would start and I would start to grow breasts and this was as much as you were told! It was considered private there we no forums to discuss such things on! It was considered wrong and embarrassing to even ask another child if they had started theirs yet! :blush: and you certainly didn't discuss sex. That was something saved for your wedding night! It was never shown on TV either at that time. (still black and white TV when I was at school!) or if it was they were never programs I was allowed to watch! Crikey I wasn't even allowed to wear make up until I was 18! Think I was 19 when I got the 'birds and the bees' talk cos I had to go to a residential college for the deaf for retraining (work training, learning to lip-read etc), you didn't get sex education at primary school in those days!!


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Fluffster said:


> Daisy's nips have never quite gone down to what they were pre season. She's also got a weird double nipple which makes me think of Chandler from friends and his nubbin. I dont care, nipples are nipples, we've all got em.


you see Inca doesn't even have the little bumps like that under her black coat. Daisy is a beautiful dog though the type of dog I like visually. Is she a black (working) cocker spaniel?


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

It's hard to get a pic as Inca isn't very mobile these days and doesn't like rolling over on her back cos its painful for her. 

Below is pic of one side, other is the same..just smooth and fine black hair very close to the skin, nothing visible or can be felt. and 2nd pic her 'lady parts' area.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Meezey said:


> All mammals have nipples males and females, all different shapes and sizes, all different at different ages, whether they have had babies or not nipples like viginas and penises are very natural and part of nature, you have different shaped and sized nipples male or females babies or no babies.....I doubt people took issues with her nipples over an amputated limb?


Actually - male rats, platypus' and some male horses don't have nipples.. - I learned that yesterday..

If you lift up Inca's fur can you see nipples. Lou's are hard to see but they are there.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> It's hard to get a pic as Inca isn't very mobile these days and doesn't like rolling over on her back cos its painful for her.
> 
> Below is pic of one side, other is the same..just smooth and fine black hair very close to the skin, nothing visible or can be felt. and 2nd pic her 'lady parts' area.


Are you looking between her back legs??? If so try higher up.

I forgot, talking of odd nipples, ninjas aren't in two parallel lines they alternate. Any one else's dog have uneven nipples.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

GingerRogers said:


> Are you looking between her back legs??? If so try higher up.
> 
> I forgot, talking of odd nipples, ninjas aren't in two parallel lines they alternate. Any one else's dog have uneven nipples.


No but I do, does that count?


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

SLB said:


> Actually - male rats, platypus' and some male horses don't have nipples.. - I learned that yesterday..
> 
> If you lift up Inca's fur can you see nipples. Lou's are hard to see but they are there.


Not really thought about it but actually anything with udders presumably only appear on the females ??? Sheep goats cows etc


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GingerRogers said:


> Are you looking between her back legs??? If so try higher up.
> 
> I forgot, talking of odd nipples, ninjas aren't in two parallel lines they alternate. Any one else's dog have uneven nipples.


Sadie has 9 rather than an even number.. Thats a bit weird.



GingerRogers said:


> Not really thought about it but actually anything with udders presumably only appear on the females ??? Sheep goats cows etc


The only thing I read about was that male horses could lose their nipples, some retain them but they're not that visible. I can't find what I was reading yesterday but Wikipedia... (bottom of page)

Mammary gland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

SLB said:


> Sadie has 9 rather than an even number.. Thats a bit weird.
> 
> The only thing I read about was that male horses could lose their nipples, some retain them but they're not that visible. I can't find what I was reading yesterday but Wikipedia... (bottom of page)
> 
> Mammary gland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Just counted ninja has 7


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

GingerRogers said:


> Just counted ninja has 7


Pen won't let me look at hers.. Ever since her spay and then cutting her groin open on a walk and having yet more stitches (a couple of months apart from each other). She's been very protective over her tummy.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

SLB said:


> Pen won't let me look at hers.. Ever since her spay and then cutting her groin open on a walk and having yet more stitches (a couple of months apart from each other). She's been very protective over her tummy.


 don't blame her

I would feel the same


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

GingerRogers said:


> Are you looking between her back legs??? If so try higher up.
> 
> I forgot, talking of odd nipples, ninjas aren't in two parallel lines they alternate. Any one else's dog have uneven nipples.


Pixie's are even except for one.

Then first 4 are completely identical, then the left side is missing one (not further down, just completely missing) and they carry on being perfectly symmetrical and then she has an extra one almost on her leg on the left side.

I would assume based on the placement that it would actually make it very painful for her to walk if it was filled with milk, it is literally on the crease between body and leg. Luckily she is never reproducing!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

SLB said:


> Actually - male rats, platypus' and some male horses don't have nipples.. - I learned that yesterday..
> 
> If you lift up Inca's fur can you see nipples. Lou's are hard to see but they are there.


Really wow never knew that... Shows you how much notice I take of nipples could have sworn my males rats had them lol


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Really wow never knew that... Shows you how much notice I take of nipples could have sworn my males rats had them lol


Apparently it's only really noticeable on naked ratties. Same with male mice too..


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Just counted, Nooka has 10 nips all lovely and lined up 

Is it bad that I'm proud of her nipples


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Alfshuman said:


> Hmmm. If visible nipples on dogs should be covered up, then maybe cows should be wearing bras?
> 
> ...


Some do - cows whose ligaments might rupture due to the sheer mass of their full bag, or cows whose teats
are long & may hit the barn-sill or the dung-slot, etc, DO wear brassieres.

A cow-bra goes over their spine & lifts the weight off the udder ligaments, protecting the teats from injury
by banging the barn-sill or being trodden on, by the cow herself or any herdmate.









Beef cattle rarely need such intervention, nor do such breeds as Jerseys, Brown Swiss, & Ayreshire -
heritage dairy breeds are more moderate. Most cows who need bras are Holstein-Freisian, bred to produce
a FLOOD of milk, & nowadays [if they are conventional-Ag] given RBGH to increase milk-yield even more.

Recombinant Bovine Growth-Hormone is a wicked tool; it increases the risk of miscarriage or stillbirth,
causes a huge increase in infections [mastitis, uterine, bladder, etc], & makes cows more-prone to
calcium collapse ["milk fever"] which can be fatal.

If U do nothing else for the environs or animal welfare, buy ORGANIC dairy-products & save dairy cattle from
added suffering with RBGH - please.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Io has eight nipples I think

I have two

OH has two

Guinea pigs - both male and female have two each

Its a nipple-tastic household! :w00t:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Hanwombat said:


> Io has eight nipples I think
> 
> I have two
> 
> ...


i didn't know Guinea pigs only have 1 pair! - they have litters, don't they? 

One of my former consorts had 2 pairs of nipples, the lower pair less-developed but in direct
line with the pair in the usual spots - the bottom set was more than 4-inches lower. [He said they were
'moles' - no way. They were 2/3 size nipples, with paler aureoles.]

So if U meet a man named Carl with 4 nipples, ask him if he remembers Terry. :001_smile:

Humans can also have other anatomical oddities - heart on the other side, appendix on the left,
etc. There are well-known rates for every one of these congenital events.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

How PFers spend their Saturdays - counting nipples! :blink:

totters off to count Bessie's.......


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Rabbits have 6 apparently but Leo refused to cooperate when I tried to check. I can find Buster's easy enough. All mammals except for platypus and echidnas I think have them, they suckle their young through their fur not specialised sweat glands.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> ... All mammals except for platypus & echidnas I think have them, [the latter two] suckle their young
> through their fur, not specialised sweat glands.


i find cetacea fascinating, & their calves don't really nurse - mum's teats are retracted within folds to preserve 
their smooth hydrodynamic surfaces, so the mother actively squirts milk, very high in fat, into the calf's open mouth.
A certain amount is lost to the surrounding water, but most of it hits the target. :thumbsup:


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> Some do - cows whose ligaments might rupture due to the sheer mass of their full bag, or cows whose teats
> are long & may hit the barn-sill or the dung-slot, etc, DO wear brassieres.
> 
> A cow-bra goes over their spine & lifts the weight off the udder ligaments, protecting the teats from injury
> ...


Never heard of a cow wearing a bra - I think that must be an American invention  Growth hormones are illegal in the UK as far as I know.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> i find cetacea fascinating, & their calves don't really nurse - mum's teats are retracted within folds to preserve
> their smooth hydrodynamic surfaces, so the mother actively squirts milk, very high in fat, into the calf's open mouth.
> A certain amount is lost to the surrounding water, but most of it hits the target. :thumbsup:


Interesting, true seals have retractable nipples for I assume the same reason.


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## Wilmer (Aug 31, 2012)

> If U do nothing else for the environs or animal welfare, buy ORGANIC dairy-products & save dairy cattle from
> added suffering with RBGH - please.


Fortunately, RBGH is banned in EU cattle now.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

leashedForLife said:


> i didn't know Guinea pigs only have 1 pair! - they have litters, don't they?
> 
> One of my former consorts had 2 pairs of nipples, the lower pair less-developed but in direct
> line with the pair in the usual spots - the bottom set was more than 4-inches lower. [He said they were
> ...


Guinea pigs are born fully developed so can eat hay etc from day one so perhaps two nipples is enough


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Blitz said:


> Never heard of a cow wearing a bra - I think that must be an American invention.


actually, the earliest cow-bras were fur-lined & used in paces like eastern Europe & Russia, to prevent the poor
cow's udder, & especially precious teats, from being frostbitten. 

So no - they're not a US-invention. However, they are now manufactured in the USA, hopefully to a better standard
than the homemade versions of the 1920s, '30s & '40s.


Blitz said:


> Growth hormones are illegal in the UK, as far as I know.


Feb-1994
Growth-hormone milk is rejected by supermarkets - UK - News - The Independent

What milk products contain rbgh? | eHow UK

Canada banned rBGH b/c "clinical lameness increased approx 50%" in cows given synthetic bovine somatropine:
Dirty Dairy

Britains really disgusting food | Natural Food Finder

Christine Escobar: The Tale of rBGH, Milk, Monsanto and the Organic Backlash


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Hanwombat said:


> Guinea pigs are born fully developed, & can eat hay, etc, from day one - so perhaps two nipples is enough.


Interesting! --- does mum's milk only serve as back-up, or provide extra protein? 
Had no idea they were born with teeth.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

leashedForLife said:


> Interesting! --- does mum's milk only serve as back-up, or provide extra protein?
> Had no idea they were born with teeth.


Guinea pigs are born fully developed - so eyes open, fur, teeth etc, they're basically just a mini version of their mums and their gestation period is much longer because of this.

Generally I believe they can suckle for about two weeks but they can eat hay, pellet etc immediately - its a very good survival method in the wild by being born fully developed.

I have had guinea pigs fifteen years and only ever had one birth but that was due to taking in 5 rescue guinea pigs that were dumped at a vets and one of the females was pregnant - she had 5 gorgeous pups.


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## LouLatch (Jul 2, 2012)

I have to agree this is a strange thread!!

Im a little confused why nipples would be a problem when considering getting a dog!?

Mitzie has very visible nipples as she has very short hair, we have wondered if shes had a litter in her previous home but we will never know.

Id never not adopt a dog because of its nipples or fury plums.


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

IncaThePup said:


> you see Inca doesn't even have the little bumps like that under her black coat. Daisy is a beautiful dog though the type of dog I like visually. Is she a black (working) cocker spaniel?


Yes she is


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

I don't think I understand what you mean. Personally I wouldn't choose a bitch unless she had already been spayed, then I would consider it.

imo If there is something about the dog that you are not comfortable with, you need to choose a different dog.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Look, let's just all embrace the nipples


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Goldstar said:


> Look, let's just all embrace the nipples


Our own , our dogs or each others ?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Goldstar said:


> Look, let's just all embrace the nipples


Can you be arrested for that?


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## Wilmer (Aug 31, 2012)

What a thread! I must admit, I was a bit startled by Betty's nipples growing during her season - i'd only had one dog before and she was spayed fairly young and had fairly flat nips. Having a thick coat means I'm generally only aware of them during grooming, apart from ATM where the rear half of her belly has been shaved and she's letting them all hang out!

I must say, I find the prominent bum-holes on dogs with curly up tails more of a thing - and it's certainly interesting the first time you see an intact mastiff boy - calling them plums would be an understatement ....


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## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

When I got Breeze her breasts hung several inches lower than her belly and her nipples were incredibly visible thanks to years of being used for breeding. I didn't care because I knew I was getting a wonderful little dog. Her belly has tightened up a lot and her nipples are no longer visible, but she'll always be a little saggy.
Scooter's "furry plums" are on show too. So what? They're quite impressive 

Not getting a dog because their normal anatomy happened to be on show actually disgusts me. Horribly shallow.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

BeauNoir said:


> I suppose it is the same thing as a woman who has a strong history of female cancers or the brca gene who would have a mastectomy and a hysterectomy to stop the risk of those cancers. A friends mother is having her mastectomy soon as she has been classed as very highly likely to contract female cancers.
> 
> If your bitch does have the finger like nipples and has had multiple litters, it would make sense to remove them when they are young and healthy rather than having them removed if and when they get cancer.
> 
> It is food for thought really if this should become a semi normal procedure for ex breeding bitches with their spaying before rehoming?


It's an interesting thought.

We know that hormonal influence is the big one for the development of mammary tumours in bitches. There is evidence of dietary factors and genetic factors as well (obesity has been linked to an increased risk of mammary neoplasia - ref below). As we know, the risk of mammary tumour development is more or less 0% if the bitch is spayed before the first season, and still greatly reduced if they are spayed after the first or second season (70-90% reduction).

Obviously, the risks of mammary neoplasia need to be weighed up against the risks of other tumours (osteosarcoma) and matters of physical and mental maturity when deciding exactly when to spay. I personally see many, many more mammary tumours than osteosarcs, for example - mammary cancer is the most common cancer of female dogs, after all. Personally I do not see early spaying (by which I mean 5-6m) as unjustified on this basis (on a case-by-case basis), but I understand the other side of the argument 100%.

Here's the reference to the dietary study, in 1998. I haven't read the whole paper, so cannot personally comment on its quality.



> J Vet Intern Med 1998;12:132-139.
> 
> Relation between habitual diet and canine mammary tumors in a case-control study.
> 
> ...


Back to the matter of spaying and mammary strips to prevent mammary neoplasia... because we know that early spaying effectively prevents mammary neoplasia, any sort of preventative mastectomy should not be necessary in these cases.

In the cases that are spayed later - the ex-breeding bitch, for example - then I suppose there is an argument to suggest that mastectomy could be considered. It's not something I have personally seen done or ever contemplated myself. I would have one major concern, and that is the invasiveness of the surgery.

A bilateral mammary strip is a BIG surgery. It is called 'radical' for a reason! These surgeries are long, create very large wounds, require post-operative drains and are extremely painful. It's not just a matter of chopping off the teats; mammary tissue is extensive in the bitch (obviously, it runs along the entire length of the chest, abdomen and groin) and you also need to remove a LOT of skin. They bleed a lot. I hate these surgeries!

Here's a photo of a unilateral (one-sided) partial mammary strip I found on Google images (warning, if you don't like surgical wounds then don't click!):
http://www.animaladvocatesmi.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Bellapostsurg1.jpg

In that photo, only three of the ten glands have been removed. Generally, I don't recommend stripping all the glands in one surgery, and AFAIK most vets don't; instead we recommend a staged approach with one side stripped a month or so after the first.

This is where I think the idea may fall down - it requires two long GAs, two pretty major surgeries. In principle I think it would help some bitches, but in practice I think it would be very difficult to achieve, especially considering that 50-60% of mammary tumours are benign in any case.

Does late spaying reduce the chances of mammary tumours occurring at all? Does spaying at the time of mammary surgery help prevent recurrence in the future?

These are controversial questions.

This is from the proceedings of BSAVA Congress 2010:



> Late ovariohysterectomy at the time of tumour excision is controversial. It may have benefits in preventing pyometra and avoiding the need for progestin therapy in an older bitch and *it will probably prevent the development of further benign tumours. The effect on malignant tumours is unclear*, however. Most reports suggest there is no effect on slowing the recurrence of malignant tumours or preventing their metastasis but some suggest that *ovariectomy at the time of surgery or less than 2 years before improves survival time*. This is because tumours which develop in this hormonal environment are more likely to be oestrogen-receptor positive, will benefit more from removing hormones (spaying) and therefore have a good prognosis.


On the other hand, this recent (2013) paper found that spaying these bitches was beneficial and has led the authors to recommend its consideration. The link to the full abstract his here: Effect of ovariohysterectomy at the... [J Vet Intern Med. 2013 Jul-Aug] - PubMed - NCBI



> Ovariohysterectomy performed at the time of mammary tumor excision reduced the risk of new tumors by about 50% among dogs with NMT. Survival was not significantly affected. Adjuvant OHE should be considered in adult dogs with mammary tumors.


Food for thought.

By the way, I've read through this thread and really don't understand what the issue is with nipples on display (dogs', that is). I can honestly say that I have given more thought to why the Croatian World Cup football team seem to be wearing Gingham shirts than this non-issue. 

Give over, people!


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

SusieRainbow said:


> Our own , our dogs or each others ?


Well I guess that's down to personal choice :001_tongue:


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Can you be arrested for that?


I imagine so. As long as the nipples are embraced, who cares right


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## lipsthefish (Mar 17, 2012)

Have I entered some sort of parallel universe 

I can honestly say a dogs nipples (or lack of) has never, ever entered my head when thinking about homing! I really thought the thread was some sort of joke 

All 3 of ours have small nipples (yep the boys have them too!) Angel shows hers when we ask her to show her buttons, she rolls over, was handy when she got spayed for checking her wound. 

I'm sorry op, I'm not being mean but I just honestly can't get my head around this thread at all  They are nipples! Newborn babies even come with them!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Well, i think this was an informative & fun thread. :thumbup1:
I learned some nifty new stuff, some silly factoids, & enjoyed the giggles, too.

i think the whole issue of what folks find appealing is very idiosyncratic; so long as they choose a dog
they really LOVE - looks, behavior, activity levels, tolerance for strangers & novelty, whatever - 
i think it's all personal choice. If U can't stomach dangling nipples, don't get that dog - it's OK, really. :yesnod:

It's no different than my dislike of white / albino ANYthing - bunnies, horses, rats, what-have-U. Or pink eyes,
or pink noses - they always look irritated & runny / wet, to me. If U think Ur pink-eyed white bunny is lovely,
good on ya! --- just don't expect me to want an identical specimen.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Hanwombat said:


> Io has eight nipples I think
> 
> I have two
> 
> ...


lol nipple counting

Seriously I have been pondering nipple/udders/teats male development and all related stuff all day, sadly I havent bumped into any farmers to ask the relevant questions,and I am not sure how to explain the question simply. I might have to venture into GC tomorrow to ask the questions that have arisen cos they sure as hell aren't dog related


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## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

Hanwombat said:


> Io has eight nipples I think
> 
> I have two
> 
> ...


We have the grand total of 40 nipples in this house. I'm very proud :biggrin:

OH thinks I'm completely nuts now though, having witnessed me counting nipples........


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> We have the grand total of 40 nipples in this house. I'm very proud! :biggrin:
> 
> ...


i'm donating a prize. :yesnod:








Unless someone tops this total before SIX PM Eastern Time [+ 5 hrs from Greenwich] 
tomorrow, Sunday, July 6th... *WeedySeaDragon* takes the prize!...

_Start counting, PetsForum folks! :thumbup:
If U have 41 or more nipples 
among the resident mammals in Ur household, 
post that total here, before 6-PM EDT / 11-PM GMT. 
No cheating, please - 
borrowing a couple spare dogs is not fair. Play nicely. _


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> i'm donating a prize. :yesnod:
> 
> View attachment 141700
> 
> ...


Hmm... do fish have nipples I wonder?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> Hmm... do fish have nipples I wonder?


Not even the ones that give birth to live young sorry.

Only 19 here


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

Do boy cats have nipples?  Max would be horrified if I tried to check :lol:

If so, I think we're at about 28 (including me and OH  )


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Bess has 10. All evenly spaced! 

Sorry it's taken me so long to count. When I did manage to get her rolled on her back she wouldn't let me stop rubbing her tummy. Slave that I am!


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

Just counted, Daisy has 10 too but they are uneven, she's missing one at the top and has a double nipple further down to make up for it :lol:


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

I can't think this thread has done much for the OP's nipple phobia!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Tango,s lying on hers again !


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2014)

I'd lose my hand if I tried to count Tala's nipples!


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## BeauNoir (Sep 16, 2012)

Boy cats do have nipples, Reubens are massive for a cat.

Without counting the cats, as he is angry, we are 26. I suspect Reuben has about 8? So 34.

Close, no cigar!

Knew we should have kept those kittens we fostered, we would have won!


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

BessieDog said:


> I can't think this thread has done much for the OP's nipple phobia!


:lol:

Especially not with this pic of Daisy's freaky double nipple aka her nubbin


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## Fluffster (Aug 26, 2013)

Oh god, it's vast. Nipzilla


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

leashedForLife said:


> i find cetacea fascinating, & their calves don't really nurse - mum's teats are retracted within folds to preserve
> their smooth hydrodynamic surfaces, so the mother actively squirts milk, very high in fat, into the calf's open mouth.
> A certain amount is lost to the surrounding water, but most of it hits the target. :thumbsup:


There was a program about that the other week... baby dolphins have special shaped tongues like frills on the end that help keep the milk in these 'frills' become less prominent as the dolphins grows and no longer takes milk from its mother.

Some other mammals (think it showed a baby Manatee) have specially designed noses and mouths that form a seal around the mothers teats so the milk can't escape.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

[email protected] only chickens had nipples I'd definitely win! With 31 chooks even if they only had 2 each we'd be off the chart! Plus the 2 budgies and the snake I think only a farmer would beat us 

But counting only mammals our total is 28 (unless someone has an extra nipple I don't know about...)

(ETA for some reason PF has inserted an email link that I can't get rid of...maybe I'll try emailing it...)


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

*WeedySeaDragon -*
are U of the female or male persuasion?

I ask because i chose 2 secret prizes, depending upon the gender of the winner. 
Let me know which is apropos? :001_smile: Tomorrow *i will reveal all* - of the prize, that is.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Do I get the booby prize (geddit ?) we have a meagre nip count of 16 in this house. Tango, to her shame , has only 6 ! Ditto the cat. You could say mammarily challenged .


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

If I am allowed to count the horses and cattle I am sure I would win but that is probably not fair.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> We have the *grand total of 40 nipples* in this house. I'm very proud :biggrin:
> OH thinks I'm completely nuts, though, having witnessed me counting nipples...


A visionary is never honored in her or his own home. 


leashedForLife said:


> i'm donating a prize. :yesnod:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i want to sincerely apologize -
i had 'Net-access issues, lost my then-job, began a new job, & *totally forgot* the prize!... 
this is very embarrassing, i've never failed to follow-thru on a prize, before.

*WeedySea-Dragon* - this is for YOU!
Pick whichever one U like... i included both M & F flavors.

model A: 







model B:







model C:







model D:


----------

