# 8 Month old jack russel problems - please help - last straw



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

Hi all, I really really need help with my 8 month old male jack russell

I have been tying to house train Dylan since he was 8 weeks, I've tried crate training but every single morning the crate is full (and i mean full) of poops and pee. I take away his water at night, he goes out for a pee at 11pm but every morning it's the same, loads of poops swimming in pee!!!!

I've heard that dogs don't mess where they sleep but he does it on his bed!

I've tried leaving puppy pads down everywhere, he will go on them but he'll go everywhere else too.

It's not just the night, he walks round the house cocking his leg on everything. He pees on the actual cushions of the sofas, he'll jump up on our beds and pee on our quilts and pillows, he'll pee on a blanket and jumpers left lying around the house.

We try to keep all bedroom doors closed but i can guarantee if one is left open i will find pee and poo under and on the beds.

When i'm cooking i'll turn around and there's a puddle in the middle of the kitchen.

Every time i leave the house, weather it's for 5 mins or an hour i come back to pee and poop.

whenever someone comes round he'll pee on them, he'll pee if i bend down to pick him up, he pees if i raise my voice, he pees when he's excited, it's just all the time.

I think the last straw for me was when i was in bed, he jumped up onto the bed and peed on my legs on the quilt right in front of me.

I'm a smoker so when i go out i always take him out with me, he does his business outside too but it doesn't matter how many times he goes out he still does his business in the house too. I estimate he goes out at the least 10 times a day!

We only have one door in/out of our house so he knows where to go but he makes no effort to go near the door when he needs to go.

I've tried everything, we even got a shock collar but it makes no different to him.

Dylan is a very loving dog, he follows me everywhere, if i sit down he's always by my side. he doesn't seem upset, unsettled, he hasn't even got a chewing problem, I just cannot cope with the cleaning of pee and poop anymore, it's ruining my house and my life, Please please please if anyone has any idea as to why he's doing this or how to break it it would mean the world to me and Dylan because i'm at a point where i'm considering getting rid of him.


----------



## channyy1x (Mar 24, 2010)

part of the problem could be him marking his territory. do you have any other dogs or animals such as cats in the house?
Make sure you dont yell at him when he does mess in the house as this will make him scared to do it in front of you so you will find presents hidden around the house, and give him lots of praise and treats when he does go outside. easier said than done I know, I'm having problems with my JR too, as weve just moved to a flat so the only way to take her to do her business is on a lead and she just wont go on a lead.
Your dog seems to be peeing a lot though, i'd probably say take him to see a vet to see if theres some other problems going on.


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

He is the only animal in the house.

If it was just a sprinkle here and there i'd get him snipped (thinking of doing that anyway) but there's big puddles, he even squats right under our nose, we'll all be on the sofa watching tv (he'll be on my lap) then he'll jump down and just do it on the carpet right infront of our faces. We always say no in a stern voice, he'll run and continue to pee as he's running from us.

I've read so much literature about this, i've tried everything, now i'm wondering if maybe he does have something wrong (although he doesnt dribble) but why is he still pooping in the house?

Maybe when i book him in for the snip i'll speak to the vet about it.


----------



## Guest (Mar 24, 2010)

I think he may need to be checked by the vet, he may have some underlying health problem


----------



## Jowan (Dec 14, 2009)

My JR boy Badger used to do the same. What was most annoying with him when he became around 9 or 10 he would wee in the house even if the door was open to go out. I was lucky it was always on the tiles in the kitchen or the doorway (the back door one when the front door was open) I do seem to remember reading somewhere that it is a common thing with JRTs though.


----------



## London Dogwalker (Oct 27, 2009)

Please take him to the vet, throw away the shock collar and I'd stop with the no when he does it as he's scared of you by the sounds of it. 

I'd ask the vet to refer you to a behaviourist because I don't think going through toilet training on here, when he's been through so much already will help totally. Are you insured?

Where did you get him from?


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

Jowan said:


> My JR boy Badger used to do the same. What was most annoying with him when he became around 9 or 10 he would wee in the house even if the door was open to go out. I was lucky it was always on the tiles in the kitchen or the doorway (the back door one when the front door was open) I do seem to remember reading somewhere that it is a common thing with JRTs though.


How did you get him out of the habit? Did he poop in the house too?

I know it's said that it's down to the owner and bad training but i've done everything by the book, i've not read anything that has been of any help short of taking him to the vet but even if he does has a urine problem that still doesnt explain why he poops everywhere too, sometimes it looks like he's just squeezed them out and not really needed to go!


----------



## Jowan (Dec 14, 2009)

He never stopped we tried alsorts of stuff from sprays to crating but nothing worked. He was always stood at the door to go out even after a long walk. I think he just liked being outside though as he didnt always do anything. But it was just n the last 3 years that he started to go inside when the door was open to go out. And in the last 2 years has pooed inside too. Sorry I cannot help anymore than that


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

London Dogwalker said:


> Please take him to the vet, throw away the shock collar and I'd stop with the no when he does it as he's scared of you by the sounds of it.
> 
> I'd ask the vet to refer you to a behaviourist because I don't think going through toilet training on here, when he's been through so much already will help totally. Are you insured?
> 
> Where did you get him from?


He's not scared of me, he follows me round everywhere, if anything i'd say he gets separation anxiety when i'm not around, he also pees when he's happy not just when he's done something wrong!

The shock collar is used as a freedom fence because of our garden, we learned right away that the shock collar did nothing to stop the problem but make him pee more!

Yes he is insured, will that cover the costs for a behaviourist?

We got him from a lady up in Bedfordshire - he's not pedigree


----------



## alysonandhedley (Oct 29, 2009)

I would imagine the shock collar made things worse not better. Instead of trying everything, decide on one strategy and stick to it.

In the meantime eliminate all traces of smell of urine and faeces from the house using a specialist cleaner, or a solution of warm water and biological washing powder. There sense of smell is so much stronger than ours, and they can detect things that we cant. They wee where they can smell that they have weed before. Clean his crate with a special solution too. Then try taking him out every half hour when you are around and praise him excessively when he does something, but say nothing when he makes a mistake. Try and choose a favourite spot in the garden where he will go, and take him to it, and say a key word like go pee or get busy. If you wipe up some urine inside, try and take some of the scent outside maybe by using kitchen roll, and take him to this same spot every time.

What is he like when you walk him? Does he cock his leg on every lamp post? Or does he still squat outside?

I know its hard, but when you have to break a bad habit you have to be consistent and do the same thing all along.


----------



## Guest (Mar 24, 2010)

Ellycab said:


> How did you get him out of the habit? Did he poop in the house too?
> 
> I know it's said that it's down to the owner and bad training but i've done everything by the book, i've not read anything that has been of any help short of taking him to the vet but even if he does has a urine problem that still doesnt explain why he poops everywhere too, sometimes it looks like he's just squeezed them out and not really needed to go!


If he has a UTI that has been left then this could cause pain in the kidneys that in turn may make him feel that he has to poo frequently


----------



## London Dogwalker (Oct 27, 2009)

Ellycab said:


> The shock collar is used as a freedom fence because of our garden, we learned right away that the shock collar did nothing to stop the problem but make him pee more!
> 
> Yes he is insured, will that cover the costs for a behaviourist?
> 
> We got him from a lady up in Bedfordshire - he's not pedigree


OK 

Yes it should do, (most do but check your policy) I know it's only toilet training but this is really effecting you! Any reputable behaviourist will only see you on a vet referral, so it's worth your vet checking for any physical reasons why he can't hold it.

Sometimes when puppies are raised in undesirable conditions (I don't necessarily mean a puppy farm, it can be a house but in a back room, or a shed so no access to outdoors, kennels etc) their Mum doesn't get to toilet train properly by showing them on different surfaces. Also if they get taken away fairly young they don't get taught it at all. Not to say that your pup did 
come from any of the above, but if he did it could well be a reason.

Your problem's are fixable, my dog wasn't fully toilet trained for ages and then one day bingo.


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

alysonandhedley said:


> I would imagine the shock collar made things worse not better. Instead of trying everything, decide on one strategy and stick to it.
> 
> In the meantime eliminate all traces of smell of urine and faeces from the house using a specialist cleaner, or a solution of warm water and biological washing powder. There sense of smell is so much stronger than ours, and they can detect things that we cant. They wee where they can smell that they have weed before. Clean his crate with a special solution too. Then try taking him out every half hour when you are around and praise him excessively when he does something, but say nothing when he makes a mistake. Try and choose a favourite spot in the garden where he will go, and take him to it, and say a key word like go pee or get busy. If you wipe up some urine inside, try and take some of the scent outside maybe by using kitchen roll, and take him to this same spot every time.
> 
> ...


Yeah the shock collar did nothing but stop him from running when i'd go to pick him up to take outside.

We just keep to the crate with a puppy pad inside now but that just keeps all pee and poop to one place at night.

He both squats and cocks his leg while on a walk, he also pretty much has his nose glued to the floor while out too which i find a bit excessive.

I use 1001 carpet cleaner to clean the carpet, disinfectant for the tiles, leather, wood and walls, maybe i'll try the bio clothes powder see if that works.

He does go every time i take him out but not in the same spot, and i'd say it is pretty much every hour to 2 he goes out.

I'll go the Vet route but this poop thing looks forced out to me, any explanations as to why he'd do that?

Thanx for the advice


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

rona said:


> If he has a UTI that has been left then this could cause pain in the kidneys that in turn may make him feel that he has to poo frequently


I'll get it checked out


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

London Dogwalker said:


> OK
> 
> Yes it should do, (most do but check your policy) I know it's only toilet training but this is really effecting you! Any reputable behaviourist will only see you on a vet referral, so it's worth your vet checking for any physical reasons why he can't hold it.
> 
> ...


This is the thing, I know he can hold it all night because before he was exiled to his crate he used to sleep in our room with no problems, he used to have the occasional accident throughout the day but nothing major but the last 2 months has been getting worse and worse, I thought maybe it is down to his "adolescence" but that still doesn't help me know how to stop the toilet issues.

I'm going to go to the vet and see if there's something more to this.

Thank you


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Ellycab said:


> ...he goes out for a pee at 11pm but every morning it's the same, loads of poops swimming in pee!!!!
> I've heard that dogs don't mess where they sleep but *he does it on his bed!*
> 
> *no bedding for dogs / pups not yet housetrained *
> ...





> post #13 -
> _ the shock collar did nothing but stop him from running when i'd go to pick him up to take outside. _


 *does this mean that he has a REMOTE collar on? 
IOW U can push a BUTTON to shock him - and U pushed it INSIDE to make him *stop* running away? 
if so... 
no wonder he is a clingy mess, he is zapped OUTside for going near the boundary, 
and zapped INSIDE whenever U feel he is doing *something* wrong... 
the dogs only clue as to WHAT the shock means is context; when it is inside, 
outside, any old time, he has no idea what to do to STOP it - he cannot learn *how to turn it off*.

find a good pos-R trainer or a vet-behaviorist - this is well-beyond a few e-mails, 
he needs a pro + U need to scrap the shock-collar IMO. 
his temperament cannot handle it, he is too soft a dog.

good luck, 
--- terry

*


----------



## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

What LFL said. Poor little dog


----------



## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

I have a 3 year old JRT who came from a life being caged and used a stud dog. He was my one and only failure of house training in a matter of days (and believe me I've house trained ALOT of dogs) so I knew something wasn't right. I took him to my vets and he has a weakness in his bladder control, thought to be bought on by a kick to his stomach or the over breeding he was used for. He's now on Propalin twice a day and we only very occationally have accidents in the house...and frankly that's if its raining and the lazy little sod won't go outside!!!

Please do take him to a vet and throw away that torture device. :thumbup:


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> *does this mean that he has a REMOTE collar on?
> IOW U can push a BUTTON to shock him - and U pushed it INSIDE to make him *stop* running away?
> if so...
> no wonder he is a clingy mess, he is zapped OUTside for going near the boundary,
> ...


Hi thanx for the info above i'll try them, I have a few questions thought-

Dylan has had a shock collar on for under 2 months, we originally bought it to stop him from escaping from the garden, we have a HUGE garden covered in shrubbery and trees and the ground is uneven so the only time i give him a shock is when he puts his nose under the fence. I'd rather he be scared of going near the fence rather than getting out and running on the very busy road outside. I agree that the shock collar does nothing for training indoors so it's not used for anything other than escaping - which he doesn't do anymore so he doesn't get shocked. If i knew how to train him not to leave the garden when my back is turned i'd do it but as i don't i don't want to take the risk - I have 3 children and they come in and out the garden all the time, i can't be 100% sure he doesn't get out the door while i'm inside.

This problem started before the shock collar was introduced.

1. I was told that if he peed once on his bedding take it away and this is what i've done.

2. We started using puppy pads as a way to train him to go to the door if he needed to go and it worked to some extent but since 2 months ago everything has been forgotten.
How do i train him to give me some sign that he wants' to go out?

3. What is a belly band? do you mean a band pregnant women use? he's very small (mini jack) so i don't know where i'd get a small enough anything to go round him but if someone has a suggestion i'm willing to try anything.

4. When you say umbillicord him to me, do you mean keep him tighed to me at all times? i can do that but would i used his lead and collar or is there something else to use?

He's booked into to see the vet next tuesday to investigate this problem and to be nuttered.

I've been looking into getting a DAP plug-in in the hopes the pheromones will help ease his anxieties.

Again if i could get advice on keeping him on our grounds then i will have no need for the shock collar.

Up until he was 6 months old, except for the escaping the garden and occasional accident in the house he was a very well behaved dog, there has been no change in routine, food, family stuff ect that i can pin point as a trigger, it came out of the blue and has gradually got worse

We've always had dogs in our family, we had an Alaskan Malamute and a Bulldog and everything came so easy with them and this is why i'm struggling, i've never had to deal with behavioural problems so i really don't have the first clue as to how to stop it - I feel totally out of my depth, useless and a bad owner because i don't know how to fix this

Thank you for all you're advice, if you could help me a little more i would be very grateful.


----------



## kaisa624 (Mar 5, 2010)

We use puppy pads by the back door, but Holly now barks if she needs the toilet and we're in the house. I don't know how she learnt, well, she proably learnt as she learnt to scratch the back door and bark haha.

We sometimes use umbilical, but we loop the lead around our belt and then attach it to her as she's small, and it doesn't reach her otherwise.


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

That's how all our other dogs learned, it was like a natural progression for them, this is why i'm so stumped


----------



## ArwenLune (Jan 3, 2010)

this is a belly band: Peepers Pouch - Male Wrap

But really, before you can address this via training you need to know for sure there's no physical cause. Neutering and a good checkup (urine analysis?) are the way to start, I think.


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Ellycab said:


> Dylan has had a shock collar (less than) 2 months... we have a HUGE garden covered in shrubbery and trees and the ground is uneven so the only time i give him a shock is when he puts his nose under the fence. [snip]... If i knew how to train him not to leave the garden when my back is turned i'd do it but as i don't i don't want to take the risk - I have 3 children and they come in and out the garden all the time, i can't be 100% sure he doesn't get out the door while i'm inside.


 hey, elly - :--) 
sorry, i am in the USA + just got here. (time-zones)

i would suggest fencing just a small area of the garden for the dog, with fencing that prevents escape - 
if the rear- or side-door opens into *his* yard, all the better. 
if there is ANOTHER door, baby-gate it to keep him in the house - *ppl go thru that gate, dog does not.* 
that means NOBODY *lets him* out via Door #2 - 
that is a people-door, not a dog-door; if U want him to share the rest of the yard, he goes out *his* door, 
and then thru a gate in *his* fence. this helps preclude escapes, and gives him ONE door for toileting. 
U can teach him to ring a bell when he needs to go - 
a simple service-bell on the floor works fine, anything he can hit with a paw. 
there are devices just for dogs, too - most are cheap plastic + need batteries, i prefer mechanical myself.  


> This problem started before the shock collar was introduced.


that may be true... but i would lay cash it has made it worse. 
he is a soft, highly-reactive dog with a low threshold for any stimulus, from Ur description. 


> How do i train him to give me some sign that he wants to (potty)?


U can hang a string of jingle-bells (too large to swallow) on the door-knob, introduce them with 
DISTANCE + food, to allay any startles: stand at door, TOSS a treat ==> past the dog to pursue + eat, jingle bells *gently* whilst hes eating the goody. it can be kibble, but i would suggest something much nicer - freeze-dried liver or lamb-lung are grease-free and can be put in pockets, but potently smelly + super-good to dogs. they will not stain carpet if he misses a bit, and the hoover picks it right up. E-Z. 
if U don;t have that available, use something good in protein: MEAT-based cat-kibble without corn, wheat or soy (often available in sample-sized bags) is a good option. 
tiny cubes of mozzarella or provolone are good; string-cheese is low-fat + low-salt, too. a thickish slice of Mozz-string-cheese can be cut in fourths, and now U have pizza-slices of cheese, very small but very good.

tiny cubes of chicken-breast; tuna-tidbits from a can or pouch... ANYthing small, high-quality, smelly; protein not carbs; and we are talking a quarter-inch cube to an eight-inch cube (yup, that small). 
toss, jingle softly, maybe 5 or 6 times; always when he is ===> over THERE so as not to startle him. 
raise the volume + toss the food closer as he gets accustomed to the sound.

then jingle them lightly! with Ur hand before exiting to potty the dog, each time. 
he will soon grab the string to jingle them *himself* if encouraged to do so, to get the door open... voila!  


> When you say umbillicord him to me, do you mean keep him tied to me at all times? i can do that but would i used his lead and collar or is there something else to use?


he;s a really small dog, so U will probly need to slip the wrist-loop of his 6-ft leash over a belt; 
then buckle the belt, and slide the wrist-loop to the side U want the dog on. 
now he goes where U go, and cannot be more than 6-ft away; U just keep an eye on him, and if he starts to circle, 
ZIP!, out the door.

be sure to REWARD outside performances, with praise *every single time*, and treats at least HALF the time; 
he really, really needs to have a pay-off to get the concept at this point. 
going inside is only a relief from pressure (social, emotional or physical); going OUTside must be *much more rewarding*.


> He's booked into to see the vet next tuesday to investigate this problem and to be (desexed?).


EXCELLENT! :thumbup: i am presuming that means neutered, Very good! 


> I've been looking into getting a DAP plug-in in the hopes the pheromones will help ease his anxieties.


 i;d try the pump-spray first, as it works faster; the plug-in works only in the home, and BEST near the plug-in, so it is area-specific and a narrow application. 
if U can afford it, BOTH is best - 
the plug-in near the familys busiest area, where he is =most-likely= to pee when someone approaches him, or picks him up... 
but the pump-spray can go in a pocket or bag, and be used anywhere; i highly recommend it, DAP is wonderful stuff. 
*note re the plug-in DAP - 
check the diffuser beginning about 3-weeks after its plugged-in; if it is very-close to empty, 
it can OVERheat + start to *smoke!* at which time it requires a HOT-Pad or Gloves to un-plug it. 
put it OUTside on a concrete or macadam surface to let it cool! 
if it is very COLD out, drop it into a metal bucket or tin can in case it SHATTERS from the heat/cold shock.

4 different trainers on the apdt-USA list had this smoke-in-the-house event, 
and difficulty finding the source. 
i have no doubt an EMPTY or Near-Empty diffuser is a FIRE-hazard; if U cannot refill it, UN-plug it for safety. *

i spray my pants-cuffs + jacket/shirt cuffs before working with excited or anxious animals; 
i spray my gloves in cold-weather, the SIDE-seam of my pants head-high to the dog, 
their collar (OFF the dog, spritz, replace), leash a hands-length from the clip before clipping it to the collar, 
their bed, the back-seat of the car, the crate, etc etc. 
ANYTHING washable is safe; so is synthetic carpet, upholstery, + so on. 
do not spray DRY-Clean-Only garments, Suede!!, or any garment-leather; 
upholstery-leather *should* be fine, test if in doubt in a hidden area + WAIT 48-hours for fading, dye running, dry/crackling surface, etc.

DAP is dosed: 1 spritz is a measured amount, it lasts approx 90-mins and can be re-applied indefinitely; 
NO dosage risks. *Lots of DAP exposure for women means some breast-swelling + minor tenderness - 
so do not be alarmed by that, it is not dangerous, just a mild discomfort. 
bear in mind, i am spraying boots (2), pantcuffs (2), sideseams (2), shirt/jkt cuffs (2), and possibly GLOVES as well - i get a LOT of exposure. * 
the tenderness fades over 12 to 24-hours of lesser exposure. 


> Up until he was *6-MO*, except for the escaping the garden and occasional accident in the house he was a very well behaved dog, there has been no change in routine, food, family stuff ect that i can pin point as a trigger, it came out of the blue and has gradually got worse


U said hes been **wearing the shock-collar for approx 2-mos** this would coincide with Puberty - AND with the shock-collar. 
puberty is a huge stressor. that it is a natural progression does not mean it is not stressful!  
also MARKING is part of puberty... as is leg-lifting, etc. 
and he leaks... a sign of a soft-dog. any stresses hit him harder than a more-resilient critter. 


> We've always had dogs in our family... everything came so easy with them and this is why i'm struggling, i've never had to deal with behavioural problems so i really don't have the first clue as to how to stop it - I feel totally out of my depth, useless and a bad owner because i don't know how to fix this


dogs all being individuals as well as breed, type or mix variations, behavior is wildly variable; 
when i got my Akita pup i had been training *other ppls dog + pups* for over 20 years already, 
and she STILL threw me some curves. (shrug) when we learn better, we do better!  
don;t fret over it, he;s a sensitive dog with a trigger-happy bladder, and may have IBD or other 
GI issues; even *gut motility* is changed by stress, and soft as he is, he may NEED to go, right Now! 
when he gets anxious - it may be as simple as that.

if he has GI issues + needs a diaper, can U cope with that? 
if U cannot afford a fence to give him a no-escape zone, are U willing to use a leash EVERY time he goes out, 
and ditch the shock-collar? 
i strongly suspect it has made things markedly worse; soft-dogs do not handle the zap well. 
he sounds like a very-sensitive, highly-reactive dog - which is only a bit More-So than his breed.

the vet *should be* hopefully Will Be a big help - be sure to ask about a med for a leaky-bladder, 
if its a muscle-tone or emotional issue it can often be treated. LEG-lifting however is *not* part of that... 
thats the_ leaks-when-approached, leaks-when-picked-up, leaks-when-i-shout_ thing.

for now, i;d Take-Off the shock-collar, resign Urself to leashed-walks only till Tuesday, and see the vet. 
a pair of kiddies used-swim-trunks can be used for the peeing/pooping indoors issue, too - 
i have paid as little as $1 for infant-sized swim-trunks at a consignment shop. 
self-stick panty-liners go in to catch any urine; change when damp or at least Once every 24-hours.

clicker-training could really help build this little fellas confidence - 
so could Agility or Rally-O. 
a pos-R trainer could be a big help, too. (one-to-one first, not walking into a rowdy group-class).

good luck - let us know what the vet says? 
all my best, 
--- terry


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Simply go back to the beginning treat him like an 8 week old pup, we had to take molly back to basics when she was 10 month old close all the doors upstairs try and keep him contained to the downstairs and watch him like a hawk, take him out at all the regulsr intervals after sleep, after play and every 20 mins stay outside with him until he does something them praise him with treats loves cuddles go over the top with this. Try and forget the past months get yourself mentaly focused i say this because i was so stressed and frustrated i felt my whole life revolved aroung mollys wees and poos well t.b.h it did, so i had to forget all that and start again.

Molly was my 3rd springer by 4 months old my other 2 was very reliable so she was quite a shock infact she was a nightmare,so i sympathise with you but i do think as this goes on for so long some of the problem can lie with us stressed out owners. good luck you will get there.


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

Thanx Heavymolly

LFL - I've had Dylan leashed to me since i read it this morning and he's not had one accident yet, i've also been taking him out to a patch of garden to go potty while on the lead and he's been doing very well. I had to run out for an hour this eve and my husband took over the lead and he said the whole time i was gone he was showing signes of high anxiety - pulling on the lead and crying (i never see this as it only happens when i'm away from him). But all in all i'm totally thrilled with the results already:thumbup: Maybe we won't need the belly band after all, i'm thinking a few weeks of doing this along with the door jingle and he should start to learn the routine.

The door jingle is a wonderful idea, he loves noisey toys so i don't think he'll be too sensitve to the door jingle but i'll do exactly as you suggest and take it slow:thumbup:

I'll start with the DAP spray and see how he gest on.

Thank you for all the advice and help, already i can see results, I'll give an update once he's been to the vets.

Thank you so much again

Elly


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Ellycab said:


> I've had Dylan leashed to me since i read it this morning... *not... one accident...*,
> i... also (took) him... to a patch of garden to (void) while on the lead and he's been doing very well.


 excellent so far! thats a very good sign, i really hope its this simple. :thumbsup: 


> _I had to run out for an hour this eve and *my DH took over the lead* ...the whole time i was gone he was showing... high anxiety - pulling... and crying (...this... only happens when i'm away from him). _


 try weaning him off Ur constant presence, *after!* the pee/poop thing is completely fixed. 
he can be tethered in the same room, or just a few feet away to start, but so that he MUST stay there; 
Tethered to Success 
for a tiny-toy like him, 12 to 15-inches is plenty long-enuf; tethers are for practicing positional cues (sit, down, stand), STAY, 
and hanging-out peaceably; not for pacing, lunging at passersby, jumping up + barking, etc. 
U would begin _very gradually_ leaving him, first just feet away, in the room, and *rewarding all non-stress behaviors* - 
ANYthing that is not whining, pulling, barking, pacing, etc, gets a goody. 
a stuffed/frozen Kong as busywork, with half his last-meal pre-portioned into it + frozen, can be terrific. 
but thats for the (far? near? :huh: who knows?) future - for now, getting the potty-thing sorted is WONDERFUL.  


> ...i'm totally thrilled with the results already:thumbup: Maybe we won't need the belly-band after all, i'm thinking a few weeks of doing this along with the door jingle and he should start to learn the routine.
> 
> ...he loves noisey toys so i don't think he'll be too sensitive to the door jingle but i'll... take it slow :thumbup:


 all fingers crossed, it would be GREAT if this is all it takes! :thumbup: i;d be thrilled beyond words - these stressy little dogs can be very-awkward, and it really is not their fault at all - they are just literally thin-skinned, its the Princess + the Pea, forty $#@!*! mattresses and they STILL feel the pain, ya know? :nonod: they are not trying to be difficult, really; its they way they are, very alert to everything, super-sensitive to stimuli, highly highly reactive. 
yet when they get EXCITED, oh dear Heaven, they are unstoppable - their reactivity then shuts-off most pain, 
in fact *when highly-aroused, pain only excites them*, and they can be royal terrors. 


> I'll start with the DAP spray and see how he gets on.


 its done wonders for dogs that i have used it with; and i know it has also saved me from a nip or two, i wore it on my boots + pantslegs for several extremely-reactive dogs when pet-sitting, and got in the door WITHOUT a nip,  which i appreciate enormously. 

if he conquers his potty-everywhere thing, U can then begin to address the excitable-pee and submissive-pee, 
but do remind Hubby + others that *these are INvoluntary* - they are not under his control. 
for that, the belly-band or the infant-swim-trunks can be a Godsend, as he literally cannot make a mistake; 
his leaks are a Non-Event; they don;t happen, since they are inside the garment.

the belly-band or swim-pants have saved several clients dogs, who suffered from *spontaneous-pee when stressed* - 
almost all graduated from the panty-solution.

2 had to wear them lifelong, a Cocker from a line that was well-known for leaking, 
and a super-shy former-feral who found life among humans very-stressful, 
but they were both *better* anyhow, and certainly their families were happier not cleaning-up endlessly. :thumbup1: every little bit helps...

i hope the DAP really helps him, it is hard to help an animal that is very easily stressed-out. 
all my best, 
--- terry


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

I still woke to a messy morning  i've fallen flat on my face by his lead but he's gone another day without messing in the house so i'm still thrilled and pleased with the way things are going:thumbup:

I'm going to do everything you have suggested and hope for the best

Thank you LFL you really have provided some excellent advice:thumbup:

I'll keep you updated


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Ellycab said:


> I still woke to a messy morning


oh, darn! :nonod: 
this may be an utterly needless Q, but since i don;t know the answer, it might be germane, too - 
how big is his crate, and what sort?

a crate too-large for the dog = space to toilet, *and* space to lie-down. 
crates only need to be large-enuf to walk in (head lowered, not fully erect), make a U-turn, and exit... if the dog can do that, 
its big-enuf. 
crates are for lying-down, not stand, jump, pace, etc; the dog only gets up to turn about, switch sides, and flop.  
a really-small dog like this fella should easily fit into a cat-carrier.

WHAT * KIND of crate is also often part of the problem - 
wire-crates are for show, to maximize the visibility of the dog. 
they are also noisy, rust, leak, splatter from the shallow tray when the dog moves, and feel exposed... as they are. 
they come-apart into 6-panels for storage or transport, but that IMO + IME does not counter the many negatives.

an enclosed airline-kennel or shipping-crate 
airline approved pet crates - Google Search 
not a soft-bag for shoulder-carrying, but a real hard-sided crate, tested for burst-strength under pressure, is far better. 
they are enclosed, giving dogs a feeling of security vs trapping them in the open; solid bottoms mean no leaks; 
solid ROOFs mean the leash, collar, etc, can be kept above without the dog dragging them in to chew them  
solid sides mean no more dragging items into the crate to trash them + possibly ingest something inedible; 
and they don;t rust (except the door, but that takes years and is replaceable) nor rattle with every movement. :thumbup:

if his is a wire-crate, try buying a USED shipping-crate off Craigslist - 
and moving his crate into the bedroom at night might really help, too. 
as he gets so anxious when U are gone, sleeping in the same room might make him less-stressed. 
and sleeping in his crate means he will not develop the same over-attachment as if he slept on the bed.

sep-anx develops by accenting the contrast between **ppl are here!** :thumbup: and **ppl are gone...**  
the less contrast, the less-likely sep-anx becomes. 6 to 8-hrs of side-by-side sleep is very likely to leave the dog 
highly-anxious about human departures, and a highly-emotional REUNION on each return only reiterates the theme: 
_*humans are here, life is happy + exciting; humans are gone? i am bored + distressed...*_


> i've fallen flat on my face by his lead but *he's gone another day without messing in the house so i'm still thrilled and pleased with the way things are going :thumbup: *


ouch, i am sorry U fell - but i am happy he had no mistakes! :thumbup1: keep it up... 
literally :lol: no more falls, + i hope U were not hurt.

fingers crossed for continued success, 
--- terry


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> oh, darn! :nonod:
> this may be an utterly needless Q, but since i don;t know the answer, it might be germane, too -
> how big is his crate, and what sort?
> 
> ...


Ah Right! that is the problem, he's in quite a large wire cage with a plastic tray.

I've thought about those enclosed cat carriers but thought maybe it would be too confined for him:confused1: - They're only £16 at our local garden centre so i'll pick one up today and put him in our bedroom tonight - fingers crossed

I'm ok, fell on my elbow which is quite sensitive today but it made the kids laugh so some good come out of it I just have to be aware of the lead while i'm cooking.


----------



## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Really sorry you fell, but good you didnt hurt yourself too much. Probably a good idea to find alternative child entertainment :lol:

Just wanted to say it's great to hear things are getting better.
Cant offer much help but it's great to read how problems can be resolved just by coming here.
Keep up the good work.


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Ellycab said:


> Ah Right! that is the problem, he's in quite a large wire cage with a plastic tray.


 hey, elly! :--) 
that Could Be literally 75% of the pee/poop in crate problem... 
along with, unfortunately, his stressy little self.  but we can HELP the stress part! not erase, but improve. 


> _I've thought about those enclosed cat carriers but thought maybe it would be too confined for him:confused1: - They're only £16 at our local garden centre so i'll pick one up today and put him in our bedroom tonight - fingers crossed  _


 oh, GREAT! :thumbup: i was not sure how available they are, nor the co$t. 
just be sure to wash it - before assembling it, and dry it, too. they can be hosed-off in a tub with the handheld-shower thingie, 
takes 10 or 15-secs per side... inside-bottom, outside-bottom, stand to drain; inside upper, outside-upper, stand to drain! 
if U have no shower-wand, a garden-hose works fine, too. 
if it was in stock for awhile (or a floor model), i;d spray the door, too - fertilizer + such accumulate on *everything* in garden-supply.  i worked in one! 

heres a good way to introduce the new crate whilst watching telly tonight 
YouTube - priscilla crate training 
thats a soft-crate and so only good for show - dumb thing!  that Bull-Terrier could go thru it in 20-secs... 
but for showing U how to get him comfy, it doesn;t matter.

be sure to lift his water by 7-pm (he has access all the day + evening), and take him out to potty as late as possible, with a *treat* 
for going Outside-vs-in. :thumbsup:

*if U have any Rescue-Remedy in the house, 5 to 6 drops of the liquid (each) for U *and!* the dog might be good, 
at night... *they also have a new specific for *sleep*, i forget the name tho.  Rescue-Remedy has been my standby 
for over 20-yrs, for critters + humans alike.

put the crate within *arms reach* of the bed, so that if he gets fussy for no good reason, U can BURP it - 
*not hit - * burp it like a baby, a firm soft pat with a flat hand, vibration rather than sound. that will slightly surprise him, 
he will STOP fussing to listen... PRAISE him warmly and sincerely, as he is quiet, and *whisper* something soothing... 
_bedtime..._ or _go to sleeeep..._ or just a very-soft _shhhhh...._, whatever comes to mind. then ROLL * OVER, 
take a deep breath, and SIGH deeply, settling to sleep... 
999 of 1,000 pups will get-up, turn-about, and lie down to settle.  E-Z...

if he sleeps well for 3 nights next-to the bed where U can reach him, U can try moving the crate just a bit - inches, not feet. 
but if theres a convenient spot close-enuf for him to see, smell + hear U, thats good; human sleeping = calm presence. 
if U are content with him near the bed, thats fine. 


> I'm ok, fell on my elbow which is quite sensitive today but it made the kids laugh so some good come out of it  I just have to be aware of the lead while i'm cooking.


 ow!  i hope it feels better soon - after all, U have to take Winston for his constitutional, 
U have to be in decent shape. 

all my best, _and i wish U a peaceful, dry + clean night... 
relaxing, refreshing sleep! ~~~  ~~~ _

--- terry


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

Thank you MumtoHeidi - I've started to hook him to the kitchen door while i'm cooking, i think that's the safe option

I got the smaller crate, put him in our bedroom last night and there wasn't any mess this morning - WOOHOO:thumbup:

LFL - i cannot thank you enough


----------



## Ellycab (Mar 24, 2010)

leashedForLife said:


> hey, elly! :--)
> that Could Be literally 75% of the pee/poop in crate problem...
> along with, unfortunately, his stressy little self.  but we can HELP the stress part! not erase, but improve.
> oh, GREAT! :thumbup: i was not sure how available they are, nor the co$t.
> ...


The crate was a floor model and i think it had been there a while cause it was dusty so i washed it out anyway (lucky for the dust because i wouldn't have thought to clean it out first)

I he was interested in the crate, he put his head in a few times but wouldn't go all the way so i put a slice of ham right in the back and that got him in no problem :lol:

He did whimper a little at the beginning of the night but every time it got a little loud i did the shhhh thing and it worked, i think i must have shushed him 3-4 times before he went to sleep and i didn't hear a thing more until i woke this morning. I took him straight out and he had a HUGE pee :thumbup:

I don't have any rescue remedy but i have put my order in for the DAP spray.

I cannot thank you enough as these small changes have made the world of difference and made my home life so much more enjoyable :thumbup:


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Ellycab said:


> He did whimper a little at the beginning of the night but every time it got a little loud i did the shhhh thing and it worked, i think i must have shushed him 3-4 times before he went to sleep and i didn't hear a thing more until i woke this morning. I took him straight out and he had a HUGE pee :thumbup:


_*Yay! :thumbup: 
keep it up... just a little gain, each day.

> click! < good human!  have a 2#-box of Godiva chocolates... 
but don;t eat them all at once, and NONE for the dog, :lol:

one more good step... :thumbsup: *_


----------

