# What will I get?



## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

So, my little girl has been to see a stud, a cream shorthair, and I'm confused as to what to expect.

She is a Blue and White Bicolour, so I am pretty sure I will get Blue and Blue and White boys and Blue Cream and Blue, Cream and White girls. Is this correct?

The way I understand it is that the males will take both genes from her, so I won't get any Cream or Cream and Whites, and the girls take one from each parent, so I won't get any Blue self girls. 

The stud owner has said that I would get the cream and cream whites as well. Am I right or wrong?


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

No you will not get Cream males, only Blue ones. The boys will take a gene from each parent as do the girls however because the Y chromosome is shorter than the X chromosome the cream gene (sitting on the Y) will be swamped by the blue one sitting on the X. Red series males can not sire red series sons unless the queen is also red series


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

Thank you, I knew there was a reason why a cream sire and blue dam wouldn't produce cream boys. Just wasn't 100% sure why.

Royal Python pattern and colour genetics is far simpler to understand! Cat genetics confuses me.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Girls will all be torties - they have no choice as HAVE to have a red gene from Dad.

Girls - blue tortie
Boys - blue 

all with or without white.

DO either of them carry anything else? red is a sex linked gene - hence the dad can't make red boys as the red has to come form mum.

What are you breeding?


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

As far as I know the stud was just Cream and my girl Kiki doesn't carry anything else.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Jody78 said:


> As far as I know the stud was just Cream and my girl Kiki doesn't carry anything else.


Ah, irrelevant what the stud carries then as your girl doesn't so it won't matter.


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

Thank you for your help


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_do you have a picture of her, would like to see her. Is this your first litter._


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

Well, here she is. It's going to be not only her first litter, but mine also.


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

I tried putting some pictures up on the thread, but it didn't work.

I have added an album on my profile if you want to have a look at her.

The cover photo is her the day after we got her home, she was so tiny and scared, but ever so cute.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Awwwwww she is cutie ... How old is she now


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

She is almost 14 months now. A little angel, who is full of mischief.

I was looking for a blue self, as this is what I had when I was little, but could not get hold of one anywhere, she came up and although I was set on something different she was too cute to turn down.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Jody78 said:


> Thank you, I knew there was a reason why a cream sire and blue dam wouldn't produce cream boys. Just wasn't 100% sure why.
> 
> Royal Python pattern and colour genetics is far simpler to understand! Cat genetics confuses me.


This is because the gene that produces red / cream is sex-linked - it is on the X chromosone. The male is XY, the female is XX.

A red or cream boy has to have Orange on his X, and his X has to come from his mum so she must be tortie or red/cream.

He will pass the Orange on his X to all his daughters, so they will all be tortie. If the girl was tortie or red/cream then red/cream girls would be possible as well, but she isn't. The kittens might or might not get the white from her, so you are looking at:


blue or blue & white boys
blue tortie or blue tortie & white girls.

This assumes they are a standard sort of BSH breeding - no colourpoint or other stuff lurking.

A friend's cat had a litter of blues & blue-creams and it was jolly hard to spot the torties at first (ambiguous bits!), but the cream gradually filled in. The blue-cream & white will be far easier to spot as the cream tends to be in patches rather than finely mingled.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Jody78 said:


> She is almost 14 months now. A little angel, who is full of mischief.
> 
> I was looking for a blue self, as this is what I had when I was little, but could not get hold of one anywhere, she came up and although I was set on something different she was too cute to turn down.


I love the blues, Is she your only breeding queen...


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

She is currently, it's a fairly new interest for me, so I will see how this goes before I decide where to go from here. I would love a blue self and a silver shaded at some point..

Obviously I would like my own studs at some point as well if I like it, but not keen on the thought of them spraying everywhere! If it is not enjoyable and fulfilling then I will have her spayed, because it isn't of any benefit to her. I'm much more used to snake breeding, which is much easier, but requires certain temperature and humidity levels when the eggs are incubating. But if it's half as enjoyable as when those little noses pip out of the eggs and seeing what colour and patterns you get then I'm sure I will enjoy it. Caring for baby snakes can be quite a challenge, getting them started eating is the worst part, so I'm sure I will be able to cope with any challenges with the kittens. Research is good, but nothing beats the hands on experience.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

It's very enjoyable and fulfilling... Am guessing you have had her tested and blood grouped before going to stud and GCCF active...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

It's hard work keeping a stud. Most of them live out in stud houses, partly because they spray but also (I suspect) so they don't sneakily mate a girl in the house. The house needs heating, they need plenty of attention, and unless you have several girls or a stud with a low sex drive you will probably need to accept some outside work for him to keep him happy. Then you also have the responsibility of looking after someone else's cat, and helping and guiding them...


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

She had all her checks done, blood test for FIV and FELV, she wasn't blood grouped as the stud was B and all her booster vaccinations done just prior to her visit. Stud was GCCF active, and a Grand Champion I believe, however she is not registered, so kittens cannot and will not be labelled as such. Am I right in thinking that even if a Queen is registered kittens cannot be if she isn't on the active register?

I did not want to fork out the huge sums for an active registered girl if it turns out breeding is not for me and a lot of people will not sell kittens for anything other than pets I have found, but my next girl (if I end up getting one) will probably be on the active.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Sigh... What is the point in breeding unregistered kittens? I'd be dubious about the background of your queen as well since she's not registered, and you hint she cost rather less than the going price for a girl on the active. 

You are right that kittens cannot be registered unless both parents are registered on the active.

Actually I'm rather surprised the stud owner accepted her - one thing the owner of the stud I took Lola to checked carefully was her registration card, to see that she is on the active.

You will also find that if you get involved in the show world and get known, people will be much more willing to sell you a girl on the active.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

So she was purchased as a pet and you're breeding from her? That is not the way to go at all! Over here studs can't mate an unregistered cat, anyone allowing that is not doing the right thing.
So glad, once again that all my pets are neutered before placement so they can't be used by bybs.

If you start breeding properly. That is, show a neuter or 2 for several years, learn the standard fully, know a quality cat, make contacts with fellow breeders, then you'll find it far easier to find a quality girl on the active.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Jody78 said:


> She had all her checks done, blood test for FIV and FELV, she wasn't blood grouped as the stud was B and all her booster vaccinations done just prior to her visit. Stud was GCCF active, and a Grand Champion I believe, however she is not registered, so kittens cannot and will not be labelled as such. Am I right in thinking that even if a Queen is registered kittens cannot be if she isn't on the active register?
> 
> I did not want to fork out the huge sums for an active registered girl if it turns out breeding is not for me and a lot of people will not sell kittens for anything other than pets I have found, but my next girl (if I end up getting one) will probably be on the active.[/
> 
> Am disappointed that you have chosen to breed from a unregistered girl .. Active queens are active for a reason .... Basically you a breeding a girl that should not be bred from ... Is cute yes, but not a good example of the breed, infact without papers she is just a mogg ... So you have just put your own pet cat at risk and entered into the world of BYB .. There is a lot more to breeding catS than putting to together .. Just one question why are you doing it ?


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

Wow, this place is 'friendly' isn't it...

Yes I do know the background of my girl, and you know nothing of my background and tar me as a BYB.

Sorry that I don't fit into your little 'clique', how is breeding her any different to breeding an active girl?


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> Sigh... What is the point in breeding unregistered kittens? I'd be dubious about the background of your queen as well since she's not registered, and you hint she cost rather less than the going price for a girl on the active.
> 
> You are right that kittens cannot be registered unless both parents are registered on the active.
> 
> ...


Well, she certainly wasn't cheap if that's what you thinking. I have seen registered, non-active girls around the £500 mark and active girls £700-£800. She wasn't that much cheaper than a registered non-active.

If you are questioning my motives, it's clearly not the money. Why is it acceptable for one person to breed, but not another? I've already stated why I wish to, for enjoyment. If I don't find it fulfilling then I won't continue. If I do I will get registered girls. I actually think that is quite responsible.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I don't see anything nasty in the responses to finding you are breeding an unregistered cat - one you seem a bit unsure of with phrases like "I believe she's not registered". I found myself wondering if you had got her as an adult and she has had kittens before.

Hopefully you plan keeping the kittens to 13 weeks and having them vaccinated, wormed and vet checked when they go.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

The thing is that there's probably a good reason why she isn't registered and thus should never be bred from. You don't even know if she really is a "pure" breed (without papers I don't call any cat purebred anyway) or a mix no matter what her "breeder" has told you unless they have DNA proof of parentage. Do you have anykind of pedigree for her? So you know she's not related to the stud? As the stud owner also seems to be not so resposible, they have probably sired lots of unregistered litters around.

It doesn't matter how much your cat cost, she will still be a moggie without registration.

What will you get? A litter of moggies.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Jody78 said:


> Wow, this place is 'friendly' isn't it...
> 
> Yes I do know the background of my girl, and you know nothing of my background and tar me as a BYB.
> 
> Sorry that I don't fit into your little 'clique', how is breeding her any different to breeding an active girl?


Well considering all the advice you got re genetics and colour - then yes this place IS friendly.

However, none of us will condone breeding from an unregistered queen. We are all for the morals and the ethics and doing it properly. If I were you, I would accept the points that people are making about doing it properly, and learn, move on, and try to do it properly from now on.

Basically a back yard breeder is someone who breeds from an unregistered queen (nothing to do with bad conditions - though many are like that too). To rise above that stigma you need to make sure you at least keep the kittens until 13 weeks, as per GCCF guidelines, and vaccinate before rehoming etc and don't sell on asap to make a quick buck. As to how breeding her is any different - it's all down to ethics and morals. Physically there isn't any difference. But . . . we invest a lot of time and effort making sure our queens are the very best they can be, socialising the kittens, creating contacts in the cat world, researching lines, buying from reputable breeders with our queens and studs on the active, only selling kittens with registration whether for pet, show or breed. Basically we follow the ethical guidelines and often impose even harsher ones on ourselves. We have absolute proof that the kittens we sell are EXACTLY what we say they are. You won't be able to do that as you can't register them.

Have to say, this is one of the reasons I early neuter - so no-one can breed the cats without me knowing and approving.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

As this thread has now touched on the Active and Non Active Registers I would like to share the following for anyone else reading who wonders why breeders put kittens on these Registers and what the purpose of the non-Active Register actually can be.

The Non Active Regsiter is also there to enable breeders to register cats that are *unsuitable* for breeding for various reasons.

In 1994 I had a litter of 5 Siamese kittens born, 2 with grossly deformed kidneys that died at around 12 weeks old, the other 3 were fine but had very probably inherited the potential gene to pass on this condition if they were bred from so were registered non-Active and went to pet homes and were neutered. Mum was neutered too so hopefully that particular issue was stopped there and then.

I also had a litter of kittens around 3 years ago that contained a kitten with a hole in the heart....vet felt a definite genetic issue so again all the kittens in that litter were registered non Active to prevent the same happening again and the problem occuring again in future litters.

If you buy an Active registered queen you know that someone has taken the time and trouble to consider to the best of their ability both her cosmetic attributes to her breed and the breeding history to ensure that she is suitable for breeding and that there are no nasty genes lurking in there that could mean kittens are born with serious or life threatening conditions.

The non Active register and buyers abiding by promises to keep as a pet and neuter is the only protection we have if our vets wont early neuter.

With regard to price yes some people do charge extortianate prices for Active registered girls but I also know many who dont charge a penny more than a pet price, what is important to them is that the right cats are being bred from.

Good breeders only breed from the healthiest, including genetic issues, and best examples of the breed that have been selected as suitable for this - as it should be.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

I struggled with the ethics of breeding at all when there are so many unwanted moggies in shelters - the only way I could justify it in my little world was to breed pedigree registered kittens to the best of my ability and guarantee them homes for life should the owners ever need to return them. 

If you really want to breed please consider doing it in a way that will be beneficial to the breed you chose and felines in general and not just adding to the overburdened moggie population. Active registered Queens can be expesive but its a tiny amount compared to the cost of raising kittens properly.


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

At what point have I said that I am going to sell the kittens? These kittens will be treated in the same way as any animal that is entrusted to my care, that is my duty as an owner. She is treated very well, if you knew me personally then you wouldn't doubt that in the slightest. The kittens will be treated with the same respect, I certainly don't need a lecture on what needs doing and how to treat them, however, I do understand people's feelings run high over a passion of their's. 

As I said previously, I know her background, I know the background of the stud and the owners are far from bad people and certainly not irresponsible. 

It's probably best that we leave it there, I just don't understand why she is less deserving as she is not registered, it's not as if I'm going to be passing them off as something that they are not.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I didn't see anyone doubting that you looked after her - not at all. 

Maybe best we do leave it there then, as you aren't willing to consider alternatives. I for one am happy to help someone who wants to do it all properly, and we all can learn from mistakes, but as you can't see how you aren't being a perfect breeder, and why that is so important; I am out. 

Good luck with the birth I hope it goes smoothly.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Before I got to the posts about registered or not, my thoughts on the first photo of her, is that she is quite small, she looks a similar age and build to my April. What sort of weight is she ?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jody78 said:


> At what point have I said that I am going to sell the kittens? These kittens will be treated in the same way as any animal that is entrusted to my care, that is my duty as an owner. She is treated very well, if you knew me personally then you wouldn't doubt that in the slightest. The kittens will be treated with the same respect, I certainly don't need a lecture on what needs doing and how to treat them, however, I do understand people's feelings run high over a passion of their's.
> 
> As I said previously, I know her background, I know the background of the stud and the owners are far from bad people and certainly not irresponsible.
> 
> It's probably best that we leave it there, I just don't understand why she is less deserving as she is not registered, it's not as if I'm going to be passing them off as something that they are not.


*Bangs head on brick wall.*

I see its my chosen breed you decided to dabble with and mess up the breed standard.

Id like to say your girl is too small to breed from and looks very underweight.I wouldn't be breeding from that cat.Also her eye colour is wrong so your not doing anything for the breed standard,i can only imagine what the stud was like for a *breeder* to accept you with an non active girl.

You are missing everyones point and you are breeding for the sake of it cause what good are you actually doing for the breed? No kittens you breed can be registered or shown so you wont know if your breeding to breed standard or not as you have no clue.

Why not get your girl spayed and leave breeding to the people with the passion and knowledge to do it properly not cutting corners and pumping out rubbish examples of the breed.

Yes you are A* BYB,very simple.

I know this will all fall on deaf ears cause most people like you are selfish and want to breed for the sake of it ,once again you are doing no good for this breed and I really do hope your conscience will give you a stern talking to.

Did the breeder know you was going to breed from her? If she is registered non active then I doubt she does.(also stud owner could be in some trouble for accepting you)
If shes as un registered cat full stop then you are just following suit of the bkb before you,a sad chain.


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> *Bangs head on brick wall.*
> 
> I see its my chosen breed you decided to dabble with and mess up the breed standard.
> 
> ...


'My chosen breed' that just says it all, I cannot believe how stuck up that sounds.

You know nothing of the stud cat, you know nothing of my passion. As stated in previous replies where has it said that I am 'pumping out rubbish examples' for anyone's enjoyment but my own? I have already stated my intention to get an active Queen if I choose to continue down this route. I think you are massively disrespectful making massive assumptions about my intentions and character. You know nothing of my cat or the stud that she has seen, you do not know how recent the pictures are, I can assure you that the stud is A*, but I expect that will fall on deaf ears. I could make lots of assumptions about you based on your response, but I'm not that petty.

I appreciated the early help and response that I got, but as for people's comments about advice, I don't actually see any advice, just major flaming, because it does not conform to your expectations. I would willingly accept people's constructive advice, but I don't see much of that about.

Sorry to have offended you, I'm not into showing cats just yet. I had considered it for the future, when I have more knowledge, I thought people had the opportunity to start somewhere, seems I was wrong. If this is the kind of thing that I can expect I'm not so sure it's something I wish to become a part of. I would have thought people with the same passion would be open and willing to offer someone new a good welcome.

'Most people like you are selfish' like what may I ask? If you knew me you would know full well that the last thing I am is selfish, but again I doubt I have any way back in anyone's eyes now. Seems like you've all made your mind up regardless.

As I said previously, I wanted to leave it where it was, but that has been ignored.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jody78 said:


> 'My chosen breed' that just says it all, I cannot believe how stuck up that sounds.
> 
> You know nothing of the stud cat, you know nothing of my passion. As stated in previous replies where has it said that I am 'pumping out rubbish examples' for anyone's enjoyment but my own? I have already stated my intention to get an active Queen if I choose to continue down this route. I think you are massively disrespectful making massive assumptions about my intentions and character. You know nothing of my cat or the stud that she has seen, you do not know how recent the pictures are, I can assure you that the stud is A*, but I expect that will fall on deaf ears. I could make lots of assumptions about you based on your response, but I'm not that petty.
> 
> ...


Look I am sorry about before I was just so annoyed it really just gets my back up breeding like this.

Tbf I would rather have a level headed conversation with you and possible get you to understand why your way atm isn't the way to go.

Many breeders spends a few years researching and visiting shows before starting breeding then they know if its for them or not.

You mention you may not sell the kittens,what will you do then keep them all? What if there is 8?

Id love nothing more than to convert you to breed the right way and id offer you all the advise I could we all would.


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

spid said:


> Well considering all the advice you got re genetics and colour - then yes this place IS friendly.
> 
> However, none of us will condone breeding from an unregistered queen. We are all for the morals and the ethics and doing it properly. If I were you, I would accept the points that people are making about doing it properly, and learn, move on, and try to do it properly from now on.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with the help I had initially, my questions were answered and I appreciated the help, which is why I said thanks to people.

I think I have made it quite clear of my future intentions, but that seems to have been overlooked. I feel I have been pretty open and honest, would you prefer me to have just lied? I would like to point out again that I have not said that I have any intention of selling the kittens, that also has been overlooked. This was just the start for me, I have said that I want to do it properly in the future, with registered queens. I had no restrictions on breeding imposed on me when I bought her, maybe she did come from a BYB, but they did a good job of convincing me otherwise if they were. I follow the same ethics and morals as you, why on earth would I let a kitten suffer from poor welfare? I think the point I am trying to make is that the only difference between what you all do and what I have done is that my girl is not registered. I have obviously committed a major faux pas here as this is clearly frowned upon.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jody78 said:


> I don't disagree with the help I had initially, my questions were answered and I appreciated the help, which is why I said thanks to people.
> 
> I think I have made it quite clear of my future intentions, but that seems to have been overlooked. I feel I have been pretty open and honest, would you prefer me to have just lied? I would like to point out again that I have not said that I have any intention of selling the kittens, that also has been overlooked. This was just the start for me, I have said that I want to do it properly in the future, with registered queens. I had no restrictions on breeding imposed on me when I bought her, maybe she did come from a BYB, but they did a good job of convincing me otherwise if they were. I follow the same ethics and morals as you, why on earth would I let a kitten suffer from poor welfare? I think the point I am trying to make is that the only difference between what you all do and what I have done is that my girl is not registered. I have obviously committed a major faux pas here as this is clearly frowned upon.


It really is hun for good reason too,may I ask is your girl registered or unregistered all together?

I will add im pleased you know of feline blood groups.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm sorry if you feel the responses you are getting are hostile or even flaming. I do not think that is really anyone's intention but I do understand their concern. It has been pointed out several times why cats are placed on the non-active register - there could be any number of health reasons for it. Anyone who buys a kitten registered as non-active and then goes on to breed from that cat is breaking at least the trust of the breeder if not an actual contract.
If your cat isn't registered then she has come from a 'breeder' who did just that. Without the registration certificate you have no pedigree for her so cannot know if she is related to the stud you have used. If you do have a pedigree certificate it isn't worth the paper it's printed on without a registration certificate to match. If you were not given any registration documents then whatever price you paid your girl has come from a back yard breeder and you are following in their footsteps.
This is why people are so upset - I am sure you have the best of intentions and you obviously care for your cat's welfare but a breeder who breeds under the regulations of any registering body (GCCF, TICA etc) goes further than that. Cats are matched by pedigrees to check for inbreeding, they are tested for sexually transmitted diseases before going to stud, they are checked for any hereditary problems before breeding, some even need to be checked for blood groups - I know this can be a problem for BSH in particular.
Please understand, this is why breeders get so upset by back yard breeding.


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Look I am sorry about before I was just so annoyed it really just gets my back up breeding like this.
> 
> Tbf I would rather have a level headed conversation with you and possible get you to understand why your way atm isn't the way to go.
> 
> ...


See, that's what I was expecting. I'm all ears, believe me. I welcome advice and take all constructive points on board.

Whilst I would not expect 8 kittens for her first litter, I do have a large family willing to take on a healthy kitten. They would all be neutered or spayed as they have cats already, who are already neutered.


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> It really is hun for good reason too,may I ask is your girl registered or unregistered all together?
> 
> I will add im pleased you know of feline blood groups.


She is not registered at all as far as I am aware, I was only allowed to take her unregistered, but was not placed under any breeding restrictions.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jody78 said:


> See, that's what I was expecting. I'm all ears, believe me. I welcome advice and take all constructive points on board.
> 
> Whilst I would not expect 8 kittens for her first litter, I do have a large family willing to take on a healthy kitten. They would all be neutered or spayed as they have cats already, who are already neutered.


Jody can I just mention something already mentioned.

You know if your girl isn't registered then you know her pedigree well you cant be 100% sure its true or a fake,as good as her breeder may have seemed,so she could very well be related to the stud for all we know,then the kittens could be born deformed.

I hope you can see my point.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Jody78 said:


> She is not registered at all as far as I am aware, I was only allowed to take her unregistered, but was not placed under any breeding restrictions.


Then there could have been some reason why your queens mum/dad was not registered on active.

If they were registered non active then someone bred them they couldn't register kittens hence why your girl may not be registered.

You say the breeders were good,but believe me if they were good they would have bred registered kittens.

Been placed non active is there for good reason,such as kinked tails,too small for breeding,or just not breed standard,various reasons.But really important reasons.

It does seem that the info to why your girl isn't registered has been lost along the way,but id bet there was good reason for it.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Jody78 said:


> See, that's what I was expecting. I'm all ears, believe me. I welcome advice and take all constructive points on board.
> 
> Whilst I would not expect 8 kittens for her first litter, I do have a large family willing to take on a healthy kitten. They would all be neutered or spayed as they have cats already, who are already neutered.


It is a great shame you did not ask BEFORE you got a cat to breed from. Showing is by a long distance the best prequel to breeding, plus possibly fostering to experience looking after a cat with kittens. As I said previously, once you are going to some shows - even without a cat - talking to breeders, asking questions and so on the doors to getting a female on the active start to open.

Sadly by going the route you have you might be closing those doors.

BTW I have a friend whose BSH had 6 kittens in her first litter.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> It is a great shame you did not ask BEFORE you got a cat to breed from. Showing is by a long distance the best prequel to breeding, plus possibly fostering to experience looking after a cat with kittens. As I said previously, once you are going to some shows - even without a cat - talking to breeders, asking questions and so on the doors to getting a female on the active start to open.
> 
> Sadly by going the route you have you might be closing those doors.
> 
> BTW I have a friend whose BSH had 6 kittens in her first litter.


My friend hers had 8 on its 1st litter and was only bred over 2 days.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

People will be against you , because you have done it the wrong way round ... Am not going to go into it as many respected breeders have already stated and I feel you yhave been reminded enuff ... What's don't is done but I hope now you understand why ppl have reacted the way they have ...... Breeding is not easy and if you are going to do it properly you need to start at the bottom... You will not learn everything in a day, weeks or months and everyday is a Skool day and you will find that not all things are text book... I wish

Not every cat is suitable , even those purchased on active can turn out not suitable , so it's a chance you take , cost does not come into it , yes it's costs a fortune and you don't make any money out of it ... 

We/us/I will help give you the best possible advice, believe me you are going to need it with your girl.. But only if you totally take it onboard and put your hands up and say... Yes I balls up


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

We had a man come on here once with a non registered BSH but with a pedigree (i.e. the generational certificate that said who ancestors were). We were a little dubious as the kitten didn't look very BSH and if it was, was a poor example. Looking up the names on that pedigree proved that some were made up and others were names of different breeds of cats - one was even a Bengal. Only by having the registration certificate can you really know your cat and it's pedigree are what they say they are. 

Unfortunately, as OS says, the way you are going about breeding at the moment is possibly shutting doors for you. You've entered the wrong way, now you need to build bridges. You did it wrong, you may not have realised why at the time and that is fair enough, however . . . now is time to take stock and work out whether you want to do it properly or not. 

The 'breeder' whom you got your cat from didn't give breeding restrictions as she wasn't selling a registered animal so couldn't. If your cat isn't registered then it is very probable that her cats either weren't either, or she went against the wishes of their breeder and bred anyway.

Your girl is lovely, but I have to say I couldn't tell she was BSH to begin with, I thought she might be a cross . . . I've seen better breed examples (sorry ). Going to shows and talking to breeders and eventually showing your own helps you to learn what the cats are meant to look like. Breeding to better the breed, to produce the very best you can according to the breed standard is what you should aim for. 

You join a breed club, you get your own prefix (TICA, FiFE or GCCF or all of them) and you follow the ethical guidelines of them. Genetically testing for diseases, knowing your genetics etc. All part of it.

If you are willing to be helped then we will, but in doing so you have to realise that you did it wrong initially.

Are you willing to do that?


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## Jody78 (Jun 9, 2013)

Well, bang on day 63 Kiki has given birth to four lovely little kittens. She was amazing all the way through, hardly made a peep, just purred her way through the whole thing.

No issues at all, babies are currently all feeding away nicely. 

It appears that I have two blue, one blue and white and one blue, cream and possibly white. Do not want to disturb her at all, she's currently sat down the side of the sofa, where she used to hide when she was first brought home.

So, thank you for all the wise words before, I have taken them on. If I need some advice and help in the future be sure I will come on here and ask first, before I do anything.


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