# Serious cause for concern - please take this seriously as it is a matter of gravity



## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

My friends acquired his dog Bruce from a shelter who said that he had been rescued from an abusive home and as a consequence had fallen prey to numerous vices.

My friend being a total adrenaline junky looked on it as a new challenge and took the Staffy in. *(Has anyone else noticed the high proportion of staffies in care?)* I visited a week later to see how they were getting on and the dog was exhibiting behaviour such as chewing on his leg, peeing on everything in sight and the following behaviour which I have never observed in any dog in my years of experience.

The staffy had not been neuteured by request of my friend who has new age tendencies and believes neutering to be mutilation. As a consequence whilst we sat talking his dog made numerous attempts to mount my friend

He was admonished but was persistent. He pursued his attempts constantly without remission. All this time he was well stood to attention which made the incident comical whilst at the same time being the stuff of horror films.

When my friend made to leave,Bruce began to growl with his hackles raised. He cornered my friend and peeled back his lips to reveal those fearsome teeth. By this time any pretensions to manhood had been mollified completely, and I was frozen to the spot.

I asked him if this had ever happened before and he replied that it had but not with such intensity. Bruce continued to advance on my friend who was backed against the wall, and began to snap at his legs, forcing him to turn and escape. Of course this was a ploy on the dog's part to access the area of his intent.

Bruce then leapt onto my friend who ended up gashing his knee on the coffee table. All this time I was rooted to the spot terrified to move since I was aware that the dog could turn his amorous advances on myself.
Once my friend was down Bruce began to mount him barking and snapping every time my friend tried to escape. He was literally being assaulted by his dog.

The experience was one which left us both shaken. We never spoken of it again, but I know that we are both terrified that he could turn on pretty much anyone who enters the house.
This dog not only tried to mount my friend by exhibits a host of sexually deviant behaviours. Something which happened at his previous owners I presume must have caused some kind of psychosis which manifests itself sexually. 
I am not sure what I should do do help my friend. Taking him to the vet could result in him being euthanised.What on earth should we do?


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

pogo_savvy said:


> My friends acquired his dog Bruce from a shelter who said that he had been rescued from an abusive home and as a consequence had fallen prey to numerous vices.
> 
> My friend being a total adrenaline junky looked on it as a new challenge and took the Staffy in. *(Has anyone else noticed the high proportion of staffies in care?)* I visited a week later to see how they were getting on and the dog was exhibiting behaviour such as chewing on his leg, peeing on everything in sight and the following behaviour which I have never observed in any dog in my years of experience.
> 
> ...


Contact the shelter you got him from! maybe your friend - nor yourself are capable of resolving the issues you describe!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Why could taking him to the vet result in the dog being euthanised? That would be your friend's decision, not the vet's. It is all very well being new aged and stuff, but one has to think about the dog in this instance. There is no guarantee that neutering would help the situation, but it could work. It may well be this randiness which has caused his abusive past. Some idiot deciding that the dog is being dominant and doing their best to dominate him.

Firstly your friend should seriously consider neutering, as opposed to pts. To help him decide, there is such as thing as chemical castration, a sort of drug that lasts a couple of months and has the same or similar effect. Then he would be able to objectively decide whether his own beliefs are as important as the dog's well being.

Some dogs are particularly oversexed, one of mine was, but I insisted on waiting until he was fully grown. It made his life a misery, to be honest, and he has been much happier since he was done.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

It sounds like your friend needs urgently a good professional behavourist who has experience rehabbing dogs - What Look for in Trainer/Behavourist
A vet does not want to PTS dogs, or insist on it, no police powers; think along lines of informed consent.

Really your friend needs to be comitted and put work in, if he's going to turn out a great pet, and also invest some money. It will take some self-discipline and consistency on his part, as with dogs it's simplest to follow "always or never, not sometimes" so they know where they are with you.

The good news is, working with a positive-reinforcement based behavourist on the dog, should be enjoyable and fit in with your friends convictions. Most likely the dog, just needs to be taught acceptable behaviour in a consistent way.

I wouldn't worry too much about "admonishments" not being effective, despite their frequent usage and popularity, they don't work very well. Bit like Humans really, being told not to do dope and drink too much etc...


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

Cheers for the support guys. I was worried people might be too prudish to deign to comment. I discussed the idea of chemical castration with my friend who maintained his stance that he nor anyone has the right to remove an animal's sole means of procreation - sigh. 
I agree that he may have been abused due to his unwanted advances also. My concern is that this has become ingrained behaviour. It's hard to tell whether this is glorified masturbation or actually his attempt to have sexual intercourse with my friend.
Not to be crude, but the dog is priapic. The lion's share of the time I am at my friend's house the dog is doing something to gratify himself sexually. This is a serious psychosis in my opinion. He will mount and hump anything and everything. My friend has actually broached the idea of a nappybecause he spends so much time mopping up the results of Bruce's endeavours. However he still insists that castration would be cruel.
The weird thing is that whenever Bruce sees a female dog he is indifferent but around male dogs he is a dog possessed displaying the classic signs of arousal. This is one for the research scientists.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> Cheers for the support guys. I was worried people might be too prudish to deign to comment. I discussed the idea of chemical castration with my friend who maintained his stance that he nor anyone has the right to remove an animal's sole means of procreation - sigh.
> I agree that he may have been abused due to his unwanted advances also. My concern is that this has become ingrained behaviour. It's hard to tell whether this is glorified masturbation or actually his attempt to have sexual intercourse with my friend.
> Not to be crude, but the dog is priapic. The lion's share of the time I am at my friend's house the dog is doing something to gratify himself sexually. This is a serious psychosis in my opinion. He will mount and hump anything and everything. My friend has actually broached the idea of a nappybecause he spends so much time mopping up the results of Bruce's endeavours. However he still insists that castration would be cruel.
> The weird thing is that whenever Bruce sees a female dog he is indifferent but around male dogs he is a dog possessed displaying the classic signs of arousal. This is one for the research scientists.


It most definitely seems to be ingrained. Humping and mounting is a natural calmative for dogs. Many dogs use to calm themselves down in times of stress. It could be that he feels insecure when strangers and other dogs are around, which he attempts to counter with the humping and the aggression/warning displays demonstrates his fears.

I think 1) you need to take the dog to the vet to get him checked out and 2) allow your friend to talk to a professional. I know many people who are against castration, but the fact is, the dog may live a happier life because of it. I say 'may', though. Some dogs can even hump more so after castration!

Seek professional advise, I think. Good luck.

P.S. If it helps any, mounting in dogs is quite a natural behaviour. Dogs use it in play, as a calmative like I said, amongst other things. So it is not as crude as we humans think it is at first. As soon as we get over this mental hurdle, I think people can tackle the problem a lot more calmly!


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

We are looking for professional help over MSN as I type heh. I know that mounting itself isn't a sexualised behaviour necessarily. However it goes beyond mounting. Bruce is definitely attracted to male dogs since he is completely indifferent to females but is completely enamoured with every male he sees. Neither of us know what the consequences would be if he were allowed off leash with another dog, but we can guess.
My friend refuses to give him away and for that I admire him. However I reckon he's out of his depth. We never spoke of that one incident ever again. However I can tell by the way that he treats his dog that its happened again. He has no choice but to submit to his dog because failure to do so results in him being viciously attacked.


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## Jonesey (Dec 30, 2010)

hawksport said:


> The answer is simple HotDoll - Love Doll for Dogs by Clement Eloy » Yanko Design
> and to save time mopping up » Why Dog Condoms


You are fookin fooked! 

ETA; I am still laughing


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## Jonesey (Dec 30, 2010)

I hope your friend gets the right help. Agree with the other posters he needs a behaviourist stat.

And I don't think the dog's a deviant.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> My friend refuses to give him away and for that I admire him. However I reckon he's out of his depth. We never spoke of that one incident ever again. However I can tell by the way that he treats his dog that its happened again. He has no choice but to submit to his dog because failure to do so results in him being viciously attacked.


Your friend needs a reality check, hence the professional advice by someone who observes the behaviours and can explain the causes.

I wouldn't focus too much about young dogs, showing "lipstick" and mounting males. Personally I find the lack of control of situation and apparent inability of your friend to teach most dangerous, not just to him & visitors but ultimately his dog.

Dog's are a responsibility, and now he needs to follow through, or that dog will soon be on death row, perhaps as a result of a court order. It's quality of life, is not good in the current situation, dogs who have learnt to behave well in human soceity are the ones who tend to enjoy both freedom and security.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> Cheers for the support guys. *I was worried people might be too prudish to deign to comment.* I discussed the idea of chemical castration with my friend who maintained his stance that he nor anyone has the right to remove an animal's sole means of procreation - sigh.
> I agree that he may have been abused due to his unwanted advances also. My concern is that this has become ingrained behaviour. It's hard to tell whether this is glorified masturbation or actually his attempt to have sexual intercourse with my friend.
> Not to be crude, but the dog is priapic. The lion's share of the time I am at my friend's house the dog is doing something to gratify himself sexually. This is a serious psychosis in my opinion. He will mount and hump anything and everything. My friend has actually broached the idea of a nappybecause he spends so much time mopping up the results of Bruce's endeavours. However he still insists that castration would be cruel.
> The weird thing is that whenever Bruce sees a female dog he is indifferent but around male dogs he is a dog possessed displaying the classic signs of arousal. This is one for the research scientists.


You won't find anyone that prudish on here! If you were talking about humans, that would be different (well as far as I am concerned) but dogs have no reasoning powers.

Your friend is out of his depth if he thinks he has no alternative other than to submit. That is not going to help him or the dog, is it? Don't look for behaviourists on MSN, please. Contact the APBC who have really qualified people with degrees in animal behaviour. You cannot afford to just employ anybody who is advertising, believe me.

You have no idea of this poor dog's background, and I am told there are perverts about. He needs the vet first and foremost, to be sure there are no underlying medical problems. Then he needs a qualified behaviourist to diagnose his main problems. Both these things are essential.

Although your friend sounds like he is trying to do the best he can for the dog, he is failing miserably. First in letting the dog terrorise him, and secondly in putting his own beliefs before the welfare of the dog. I am not a proponent of neutering a male dog for do good reason, but I have seen first hand just how miserable a dog can be when it is oversexed with no release.

He is a dog, not a human. He is not going to resent being neutered, he is not going to think it is his right to procreate. Would anyone want a dog with this sort of temperament to procreate? All he will know, if it works, is that he is happier.

The other thing to consider is the danger to other people. Is your friend happy to never be able to take this dog out in case he starts on a little old man or a child? The last thing we need is another sensational staffie attack.

You have to persuade him to think about chemical castration to start with. It is not permanent and if it works, he will find his life and the dog's much happier. I found out myself that it is wrong to put my own beliefs above the welfare of the dog. It took two years of my newfoundland humping everybody and everything. I am not exaggerating - he could not be offlead or he would try to hump every other dog he saw. If I had visitors I had to keep him on his lead so he did not get to them. He was never vicious with it, but being so big he was dangerous. I wanted so much not to have him done, then one day it finally sunk in that the dog was totally miserable. Not me, the dog!

Go with him to the vet, discuss the options. That is the best start for your friend and his dog.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Contact the APBC who have really qualified people with degrees in animal behaviour. You cannot afford to just employ anybody who is advertising, believe me.
> ...
> Although your friend sounds like he is trying to do the best he can for the dog, he is failing miserably. First in letting the dog terrorise him, and secondly in putting his own beliefs before the welfare of the dog. I am not a proponent of neutering a male dog for do good reason, but I have seen first hand just how miserable a dog can be when it is oversexed with no release


Great points!


newfiesmum said:


> You have to persuade him
> ...
> Go with him to the vet, discuss the options. That is the best start for your friend and his dog.


Now I disagree. Firstly it is not his friend's role to "pursuade" or advise on the best rehabilitation for this dog, who through no fault of it's own, has had an unfortunate start in life. Doing so may strain their relationship, after all the Owner has his own convictions, and needs to realise the cost of these, or give the dog up asap to avoid escalation and compounding it's problems.

Secondly the reason why Vet & neutering, and chemical castration aren't a complete solution is this :
The Effects of Spaying and Neutering
on Canine Behavior - James O'Heare figures given for "Mounting People" :

Reduced in 60% of cases
Rapid reduction in 30%
Gradual reduction in 30%
Some decline in mounting bitches in heat too
40% of cases, neutering will not resolve in any way.

Nor will neutering by itself solve the other problems the dog has. Perhaps you can see, why I don't think focussing on the "lipstick" and mounting is the most beneficial course of action.

A reality check is in order, and perhaps after having experienced the actual issues, the owner will be more open to change his convictions, with informed consent and seeing the difficulties of alternatives.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Great points!
> 
> Now I disagree. *Firstly it is not his friend's role to "pursuade" or advise *on the best rehabilitation for this dog, who through no fault of it's own, has had an unfortunate start in life. Doing so may strain their relationship, after all the Owner has his own convictions, and needs to realise the cost of these, or give the dog up asap to avoid escalation and compounding it's problems.
> 
> ...


Normally, I would agree, but in this instance it seems to be the OP who is worrying about his friend, not the friend who owns the dog. So advice from a vet might be a good place for him to start (the friend that is) if only on the basis that the dog's health should be checked, being as he has only just acquired him.

I have stated that neutering may not work. I am just putting forward an option to try it without the permanent results of an operation.

The OP also stated that the dog was chewing at his own feet, which is a sign of stress. So, no, it may not be sexual at all, but he shouldn't have much trouble in persuading his friend to check the dog's health with a vet.


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## eugenezach (Apr 7, 2011)

This is a pretty strange problem that I have ever heard of. Most shelter dogs have some or the other psychological disorders due to the trauma they had to undergo from their earlier owners. I believe Bruce needs some kinda psychotherapy to make him alright.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

In my view (for what it is worth) if your friend wants the best for this dog he will keep an open mind and at the very least go down the avenue of speaking with the professionals, i.e the vet, the rescue and a behaviourist.

To me it seems as though this owner is operating a blinkered approach and really for the dogs sake take those blinkers must come off and see if he can't find a solution to this - it will make for a happier dog and those he comes into contact with.

After all what is the last option?

Good luck.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

I agree with other posters

Your friend cannot suffer in silence. 

He's taken on a dog with some deep-rooted problems from his upbringing and he needs professional help to sort them out. Talk to everyone he possibly can - the rescue, the vets, behaviourists, training classes...If he's serious about helping this dog then he needs to wise up and fast!!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I am rather surprised that, given this dog's problems, any rescue would even consider rehoming him to a family environment, even if there are no children involved. I wonder if he was assessed properly at all, and don't most rescues neuter their dogs before they are rehomed or at least insist upon it being done?


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

I agree with newfiesmum. 

It sounds like odd behaviour from a rescue centre.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Normally, I would agree, but in this instance it seems to be the OP who is worrying about his friend, not the friend who owns the dog. So advice from a vet might be a good place for him to start (the friend that is) if only on the basis that the dog's health should be checked, being as he has only just acquired him.
> 
> I have stated that neutering may not work. I am just putting forward an option to try it without the permanent results of an operation.
> 
> The OP also stated that the dog was chewing at his own feet, which is a sign of stress. So, no, it may not be sexual at all, but he shouldn't have much trouble in persuading his friend to check the dog's health with a vet.


I think you may have missed some salient details though, which I am giving weight to.



pogo_savvy said:


> The staffy had not been neuteured by request of my friend who has new age tendencies and believes neutering to be mutilation. As a consequence whilst we sat talking his dog made numerous attempts to mount my friend
> ...
> He was admonished but was persistent. He pursued his attempts constantly without remission
> ...
> I am not sure what I should do do help my friend. Taking him to the vet could result in him being euthanised.What on earth should we do?


So the friend has alrady an entrenched position, specified to rescue *not to neuter*. We all know a Vet is going to suggest neutering in this case, as it is the thing that the Vet can do. If this course was acted on and failed, then the friend is now the person who was wrong, wasting time and money, on a fix that failed and doesn't address more than part of the problem. The friend is fearing what the Vet will say, and *we don't really trust Vets to give good behavioural advice, do we?*

As you have noticed, there's other behaviour issues, and poor management of the dog in the home. To me they are far more dangerous than the mounting, given the dogs abused history and likely poor rearing.

Putting it all together, whilst I respect you opinion about the likely actions required to give this dog a better chance, I personally doubt if the OP can sell it.

Far better IMO to find someone to work with, who can act as impersonal and objective adviser from a position of trust. If the OP's friend cannot fund, the costs of the rehabilitation, frankly he hasn't a prayer, and the kindest thing is likely to be to return the dog for reassessment and neutering, before his domestic habits become even worse.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RobD-BCactive said:


> I think you may have missed some salient details though, which I am giving weight to.
> 
> So the friend has alrady an entrenched position, specified to rescue *not to neuter*. We all know a Vet is going to suggest neutering in this case, as it is the thing that the Vet can do. If this course was acted on and failed, then the friend is now the person who was wrong, wasting time and money, on a fix that failed and doesn't address more than part of the problem. The friend is fearing what the Vet will say, and *we don't really trust Vets to give good behavioural advice, do we?*
> 
> ...


I agree totally, Rob. The OP is not a behaviourist, nor even the owner of a dog with issues, and may have even missed some pertinent behaviours during the times he has seen the dog. It is easy to miss some things whilst being terrified of the mounting and aggression.

Certainly he should call in someone from the APBC, but I think he should also visit the vet, not to get the dog neutered, but to be sure of medical issues before spending a lot of money on a behaviourist.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Certainly he should call in someone from the APBC, but I think he should also visit the vet, not to get the dog neutered, but to be sure of medical issues before spending a lot of money on a behaviourist


I agree, you *should* have your dog health checked on acquisition, should do this, should do the other... but in the real world, he's not likely to do all that just cause his friend say's so.

This adrenaline junky guy, needs a reality check, and realise how much this dog will cost him and fast, and what commitment it will take. Otherwise we know what'll likely happen...


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

Cheers guys. I wasn't looking on MSN for help, we were talking on MSN and doing an internet search for the relevant professionals haha.
I revealed this thread to my friend last night after our search turned up rows of zeroes and we had a real heart to heart about it. Some of his revelations brought me out in tears of laughter and others left me feeling windshook.
My friend (im going to call him Jack for the purposes of anonymity) admitted that the shelter had revealed that Bruce suffered from dominance issues. This was what attracted him to Bruce in the first place as he is always mraking a hue and cry about "real dogs" - oh little did he know! 
He also disclosed that the first time he took Bruce on a walk he found an open field and let Bruce off leash. At first he seemed quite calm, and they both played ball. However the moment Bruce saw another dog he ran over tail switching and barking excitedly. After running a few rings round the dog he came back to Jack looking noticeably less excitable. 
The following day they repeated their ritual and this time an owner with several male dogs, who were according to Jack intact. Bruce ran over and homed in one. They rough played for a few moments with Jack by this time feeling anxious. After a while Bruce began his mounting attempts and unfortunately for this dog (Jack mentioned that she was a toy dog much like a yorkie) Bruce overpowered him. I dont need to go into detail, but far from simply mounting the dog, Bruce in fact proceeded all the way.
Not only was the owner of the other dogs outraged but she threatened to have Bruce put down and Jack managed to console her by reeling off a sob story about the dog (hardly far from the truth looking at things)
Jack said that after that he kept Bruce on leash, but that was when the mounting behaviour at home began. Far from just being ocassional humping Jack described it as the actions of a man in his prime who having just discovered the function of a penis goes on a sex crazed rampage. After a week his toys were so soiled they were consigned to the waste bin, and Bruce had to be kept outside. 
Perhaps the most worrying is Bruce's predilection for animals which invade the garden. I refuse to go into detail, as this forum is probably frequented by young people, but Jack opened up about things which had evidently caused him some distress.

I am having difficulty believing that this is purely a dominance issue. Bruce only humps males. Around females he is completely aloof - he barely even notices them - however around males he is demonic. In fact the leg chewing began when the next door neighbour's male dog was allowed in the garden. Bruce was frantically trying to get access and couldnt - following this he began to exhibit signs of anxiety,

Jack said that the vet had offered to neuter him and suggested that it was a testosterone issue meaning that neutering would be the best option. He is still adamant that he will not neuter the dog either via a vasectomy type operation or castration.

I have advised Jack to continue looking for behaviourists. It turns out that he had one who cost the earth, but after several weeks of trianing the behavourist offered a part refund and took to the hills! Perhaps a female instructor may be the way forward


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

I must also mention that this was a private rescue centre run by a couple on the outskirts of our town. They take in the more difficult cases that the official rescue centres are loathe to deal with. That is they adopt the dogs themselves and keep them. At the moment they have around 10-20 dogs and have had a cap placed on by the welfare centre for obvious reasons!
Neutering isnt the answer. I think the answer lies in psychotherapy. We need to discover the source of his hyper sexuality, and why he has no sexual drive for females. I have done some research and it is possible for dogs to be homosexual. There was a discovery channel documentary/article which dealt with the issue. It looks like we have a case of this here. Still we may not and it may be purely dominance - who knows. 
I'll update you once Jack gets Bruce to a psychotherapist - that is once I manage to convince him to get up and do something about the problem


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> They rough played for a few moments with Jack by this time feeling anxious. After a while Bruce began his mounting attempts and unfortunately for this dog (Jack mentioned that she was a toy dog much like a yorkie) Bruce overpowered him. I dont need to go into detail, but far from simply mounting the dog, Bruce in fact proceeded all the way


So Bruce may have discovered humping males as a very rewarding activity now, and that "successful" mount to completion means he is strongly reinforced, as it was pleasurable. The mistake was by both owners, not to supervise the play, and prevent it being so one sided, a Staffie and a Yorkie are mismatched for rough & tumble play.

My Dog met a willing stray bitch today showing signs of season, I didn't just let them go at it, but kept her safe and had her taken into custody of the authorities.



pogo_savvy said:


> I am having difficulty believing that this is purely a dominance issue


Well you're right, now he got off he wants to repeat it, it was likely very reinforcing.


pogo_savvy said:


> Jack said that the vet had offered to neuter him and suggested that it was a testosterone issue meaning that neutering would be the best option. He is still adamant that he will not neuter the dog either via a vasectomy type operation or castration


Vasectomy would be wrong, as it does nothing to lower Bruce's urges.



pogo_savvy said:


> I have advised Jack to continue looking for behaviourists. It turns out that he had one who cost the earth, but after several weeks of trianing the behavourist offered a part refund and took to the hills! Perhaps a female instructor may be the way forward


*Jack! WAKE UP!!! You are likely to need and expensive lawyer to, if you don't listen to advice. A Dog is a real responsibility and need proper mature informed care decisions.* You don't want Bruce to end up mauling a small child who gets in his way, do you?

Without cooperating with a behaviourist you're going to contribute to Bruce's demise!


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> Neutering isnt the answer. I think the answer lies in psychotherapy. We need to discover the source of his hyper sexuality, and why he has no sexual drive for females. I have done some research and it is possible for dogs to be homosexual


Fine, suppose my dog mounts females violently and uncontrollably, and is clearly heterosexual (as he is), and then proceeds on to humans humping legs.

Guess what, this is unacceptable behaviour and I would then have to chemically castrate with a view to neutering!

The key is that Jack cannot control the dog adequetely and appears inexperienced, getting pushed around by the dog which is not subject to Jack's rules. If you employ a professional it behoves you to actually listen to them, even if you do wish to cross-check what you've been advised to be really sure about it.


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

I do agreee with you. When I say neutering isn't the answer I mean that it isnt going to cure the problem. Neutering Bruce may help somewhat but the sheer degree of this psychosis is such that it would still be a major major issue. 
Without making the forum's toes curl I can't go into the full extent of this. Some of you would probably call the K9 death squad if you knew what this dog has been up to whilst in Jack's care.
He is an inexperienced owner. I advised him not to get a Staffie and not to get one with obvious problems, but the problem with adrenaline addicts is that they'll do anything to get a fix. Part of this is Jack enjoying the rush of such an unpredictable and out of control dog.
I'd say we were candidates for Victoria Stillwell and its me or the dog - then again I think that even she would be reduced to tears by Bruce...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I hate to say this again, but this dog seems to be the entirely wrong dog for your friend. What on earth are dominance issues anyway? You do not get a rescue dog, know nothing whatever about him, and let him off lead near other dogs or people. That is simply irresponsible. I hope that poor little yorkie wasn't harmed.

Yes a dog can be homosexual, but it is very rare. Your friend needs to put his own beliefs aside and think about what is best for the dog.


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

I agree with you also. Jack is immensely irresponsible. Not only that but he's saying things such as: He enjoys having a dog who can satisfy his needs, in jest of course but ive known him for years and there's something not right about this. Stuff like that just makes me wonder whether the dog even had this problem when he arrived.
It makes alot of sense now when I think about it. Especially with his refusal to neuter the dog, the way that he's creating conditions which sexually frustrate his poor animal. It might be entirely possible that he has fostered and encouraged the behaviour which honestly is revolting but highly likely.
The rescue shelter are obliged to disclose the exact nature of the problems the dogs encounter. Dominance issues mean agression and perhaps ocassional mounting. However if Bruce had problems of this magnitude they definitely would have disclosed it. 
I do believe that Jack may be subtly making himself a target for Bruce. Especially since he's stopped walking him and has thrown out all his toys. Its a despicable thought especially since this man has long been a friend of mine. If I discover that this is true I will have lost a lifelong friend


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> I agree with you also. Jack is immensely irresponsible. Not only that but he's saying things such as: He enjoys having a dog who can satisfy his needs, in jest of course but ive known him for years and there's something not right about this. Stuff like that just makes me wonder whether the dog even had this problem when he arrived.
> It makes alot of sense now when I think about it. Especially with his refusal to neuter the dog, the way that he's creating conditions which sexually frustrate his poor animal. It might be entirely possible that he has fostered and encouraged the behaviour which honestly is revolting but highly likely.
> The rescue shelter are obliged to disclose the exact nature of the problems the dogs encounter. Dominance issues mean agression and perhaps ocassional mounting. However if Bruce had problems of this magnitude they definitely would have disclosed it.
> I do believe that Jack may be subtly making himself a target for Bruce. Especially since he's stopped walking him and has thrown out all his toys. Its a despicable thought especially since this man has long been a friend of mine. If I discover that this is true I will have lost a lifelong friend


You said before that he had thrown out the toys because he had, to put it politely, made a mess of them. Are you now suspicious that he has thrown out his toys because he wants the dog to concentrate on him? If I am getting your meaning correctly, do you suspect that your friend is one of the perverts I mentioned earlier? Bestiality is still a crime in this country, and it is animal abuse no question. I apologise if I have this wrong, but if you are serious you are definitely better off without a friend of this nature.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Does anyone actually believe this thread - I think it is totally beyond belief myself and very sick that anyone would even think of it.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Blitz said:


> Does anyone actually believe this thread - I think it is totally beyond belief myself and very sick that anyone would even think of it.


Well it is beginning to sound that way, but I am inclined to consider it genuine for now. Very rare, perhaps, but it takes all sorts. I will reserve judgement.


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## DirtyGertie (Mar 12, 2011)

Blitz said:


> Does anyone actually believe this thread - I think it is totally beyond belief myself and very sick that anyone would even think of it.


I've been reading but not commenting. I have had the same thoughts as you Blitz.

There have been a couple of instances of contradiction.

In post #1 OP said *I visited a week later to see how they were getting on * and a couple of paragraphs later *When my friend made to leave,Bruce began to growl with his hackles raised* - who was visiting who?

In post #23 *The following day they repeated their ritual and this time an owner with several male dogs, who were according to Jack intact* and *After a while Bruce began his mounting attempts and unfortunately for this dog (Jack mentioned that she was a toy dog much like a yorkie) Bruce overpowered him. I dont need to go into detail, but far from simply mounting the dog, Bruce in fact proceeded all the way.* So was it a male or female dog that was subjected to Bruce's presumed penetration?

Are these typos or is OP getting confused?


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

i am getting very confused and for some reason this thread makes me feel a little uncomfortable. This dog is sounding like a sex crazed beast that likes mounting male??? dogs, which his owner seems to be doing nothing about even encouraging if im reading right??? sounds as if the owner likes this behaviour in some sort of way ???? i hope i am getting the wrong end of the stick


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

I too am beginning to question this. It's all too wishy-washy for me! I have never heard of a dog with mounting issues like these, to be honest. And the way the OP keeps mentioning about the 'forbidden acts' but never telling us exactly what's happening bothers me. 

OP: we're all grown up here. We can take it. Telling us everything about the case 1) makes it believable and 2) allows us to help more. (You can use the word ejaculate too- I'm sure we won't all die of horror )

If this is true, there's one answer. Take him to the vets, get his dangles off and get a good behaviourist. I'm not saying it will fix it completely, but if he's not willing to do this, then why the hell does he have a dog? :


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## Jonesey (Dec 30, 2010)

Blitz said:


> Does anyone actually believe this thread - I think it is totally beyond belief myself and very sick that anyone would even think of it.


Yes things are getting entirely too weird. Methinks Jack may be Pogo or Pogo is jealous or some other twisted thing. Blech.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Rottiefan said:


> And the way the OP keeps mentioning about the 'forbidden acts' but never telling us exactly what's happening bothers me


I find the OP obsessed with the sexual element as well, and the psycho-therapy or gay angle is totally irrelevant, so I was done with this thread, which was basically endless repetition of "work with a good behaviourist and eventually likely neuter".

The way, significant new "sensational" facts emerge made me especially suspicious and think it's an attempt at emotional manipulation. The references to "psychotherapy" have had me chuckling. It's rather sad though that people will waste other's time in this way, playing games.

Even the thread title seems "iffy" to me.

PS. Just in case anyone with obsessive mounting going on, sees the thread, I would take the "love doll" idea as a joke to.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

I too am beginning to feel uncomfortable and I am starting wonder whether this owner should in fact be allowed to have a pet!

Which one needs the therapy the dog or the owner?


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> We need to discover the source of his hyper sexuality, and why he has no sexual drive for females.


This is not sexual behaviour in the literal meaning of the word. Dogs hump for many reasons - procreation is just one of them. The fact that he isn't interested in bitches says it all. Sorry if I'm reading it wrongly, but if your friend thinks his dog only has interest in males sexually then he is on the wrong track.

He needs to find a good behaviourist - and will only get this sort of behaviourist on referral from his vet so that needs to be his first step. Go to see the vet and ask for a referral. Any behaviourist who will see him directly without a vet referral is not a true behaviourist.

Your friend needs to put his New Age, 'macho' ideas about dogs aside and understand that he has a very unhappy dog and is doing him no favours by finding this behaviour amusing and quirky. Not to mention that he is a ticking time bomb and could well end up at the vet with something much more serious than castration being done to him.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> I've been reading but not commenting. I have had the same thoughts as you Blitz.
> 
> There have been a couple of instances of contradiction.
> 
> ...


Having replied before reading the whole thread, you could well be right.


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

Wow i'll go through each concern in order:
a)Jack made to leave: Leave refers to Jack escaping
b)The gender of the assaulted yorkie: The Yorkie was an intact male
c)Focus on the sexual element: This happens to be the major element. The issue Jack is having is with a dog who is hyper sexual and who wont respond to him as leader of the pack. 
d)Too "wishy washy": I'm retelling things as I hear them from Jack. So yes details may change and I may end up filling things in.

I've related everything I know up till now and hate being called a time waster. I know there are others with this issue. Its just so taboo that its rarely if ever discussed. This should be a landmark. Once I uncover whats really going on and if it confirms my suspicions the relevant authorities will be contacted immediately.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> Wow i'll go through each concern in order:
> a)Jack made to leave: Leave refers to Jack escaping
> b)The gender of the assaulted yorkie: The Yorkie was an intact male
> c)Focus on the sexual element: This happens to be the major element. The issue Jack is having is with a dog who is hyper sexual and who wont respond to him as leader of the pack.
> ...


Nobody is calling you a timewaster, Pogo, it is just that we get so many newbies on this forum with a story designed simply to get everybody heated and wound up. If you are serious, you, Jack and the dog need help and fast. But what can you do if he will not listen?

I think we all hear what you are saying, and if you are indeed correct, you should be contacting the authorities. Sometimes you can be close to someone as a friend for many years then realise that you never really knew them at all.

What about contacting the shelter and asking about these issues, like did he always have them? I don't know what other help we can give if your friend will not listen.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> I know there are others with this issue. Its just so taboo that its rarely if ever discussed. This should be a landmark. Once I uncover whats really going on and if it confirms my suspicions the relevant authorities will be contacted immediately.


Dogs mounting mf, mm, fm or ff is not taboo; it goes on all the time every day, and noone has a problem about apparently "gay" oriented dogs.

Make up your mind what you are seeking advice on, human behaviour or about an out of depth dog owner seeking help to "fix his dog" or you wondering how best to find assistance to fix it.

Have you contacted the previous behaviourist, for an opinion on your suspicion?

As it is, if you review what you said, you have wasted time, because you did not post with full salient details. When given a variety of answers to your orginal, you are following a track of a sensational theory, which *noone* except the police would be able to do anything about.

Either your friend wants to sort out his rescue dog, or he doesn't. If he doesn't then that may back your suspicions, the speculation is though pointless.


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## Carla-Jade (Jul 28, 2010)

I would be concerned (as you are rightly so) that your friend seems unwilling to improve the dogs behaviour- does he have a history of doing things or 'having things happen' to him to envoke a lot of sympathy or at least attention? some people like to be the centre of attention & will do all sorts to get it- is this a poissibility he is using the dog to do this?


has he taken the dog back to the rescue centre or the vet to see what both suggest about ways to improve the behaviour within what he deems as acceptable intervention?


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Carla-Jade said:


> does he have a history of doing things or 'having things happen' to him to envoke a lot of sympathy


And actually this crossed my mind yesterday, may be the OP's friend is having a laugh telling stories, seeing your alarm when you visited.

So does you (pogo) have a history of believing tall tales, or falling for wind ups?


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

I replied after the first post from the OP and having read the updates just now I think this thread is totally mad. 

Perhaps there is a friend with a difficult staffy, who likes mounting and has a few issues from being rehomed. 

But the OP's posts feel like a story that gets worse and worse with each bit of information drip-fed to us. Story being the operative word.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

hawksport said:


> That's just what I was thinking about those that replied with sensible answers


Except that they may decide playing a straight bat is best, rather than spread misinformation ...


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

Enjoying your speculations are you? I expect this to become research journal fodder if it becomes a public affair. I have seen this nympho staffy in inglorious action and can verify personally 90 percent of what has been aid.
I spoke to the animal shelter today and they were shocked that the behaviour had escalated to this level. They claimed that he only had mild mounting behaviour which did not exceed that of any other dominant pooch. He is now a sex craved/starved beast.
I have yet to confront Jack about his accomodating the behaviour but tonight I am staying over. I will provide updates on my I phone as and when they happen. Wish me luck and please take this seriously


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> Enjoying your speculations are you? I expect this to become research journal fodder if it becomes a public affair. I have seen this nympho staffy in inglorious action and can verify personally 90 percent of what has been aid.
> I spoke to the animal shelter today and they were shocked that the behaviour had escalated to this level. They claimed that he only had mild mounting behaviour which did not exceed that of any other dominant pooch. He is now a sex craved/starved beast.
> I have yet to confront Jack about his accomodating the behaviour but tonight I am staying over. I will provide updates on my I phone as and when they happen. Wish me luck and please take this seriously


I am prepared to take you seriously, Pogo. You suspect that your friend is having sex with his dog. Is that right, or have I got that completely wrong? I think it best not to dance around the subject, if that is what you mean.

It is a very rare perversion, but is not totally unheard of and there are a few cases in historical records of men being hanged for bestiality.

So, when you are staying over, please update us. If your suspicions are well founded, you should take the matter to the police, friend or no friend.

By the way, a nymphomaniac is a _female_ addicted to sex. I have no idea what the name of the male version is.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> By the way, a nymphomaniac is a _female_ addicted to sex. I have no idea what the name of the male version is.


A typical man? :001_smile:


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

Yes I suspect Jack is having sex with his dog or rather allowing the dog to have sex with him which may not be illegal as he is a passive recipient.
A male sex addict is a satyr after the Grecian mythological creatures 
. I was aware of the distinction but satyrical has another meaning entirely. Priapic may have been more appropriate but again that has a specific meaning. A neutral term would be hyper sexual.


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## Carla-Jade (Jul 28, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> Yes I suspect Jack is having sex with his dog or rather *allowing the dog to have sex with him which may not be illegal as he is a passive recipient.* A male sex addict is a satyr after the Grecian mythological creatures
> . I was aware of the distinction but satyrical has another meaning entirely. Priapic may have been more appropriate but again that has a specific meaning. A neutral term would be hyper sexual.


still illegal. i worked for the police & in 2006 there was a case locally where that was exactly what had been found on video. it was all a horrible sick perversion thats abuse regardelss


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I copied this from a site called the Answerbag:

Is bestiality illegal in the UK:

Yes it is. In the 1956 Sexual Offences Act bestiality carried a life sentence though it wasn't described as bestiality - I believe it was 'interfering with an animal' even in 2003 it's called 'Intercourse with an animal' - it's still illegal in both and under the 1963 Sexual Offences Act

Read more: Is bestiality illegal in the uk? | Answerbag Is bestiality illegal in the uk? | Answerbag

If you are proved right, the matter should be referred to the police. Even necrophilia is illegal, though the perpetrator isn't really harming anyone but themselves.

It seems that bestiality carries a life sentence; jolly good thing. There are far worse abuses inflicted on animals, in my opinion, that carry little more than a short sentence and fine, but there you are. I wish I made the rules.


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

I personally wouldnt place Jack in prison for allowing such behaviour. His punishment shoudl be psychological rehabilitation. The rehabilitation he should have ensured that Bruce received. 
The dog is making a conscious choice to perform these acts on Jack and Jack may or may not be reciprocating. What I find unacceptable is the grooming behaviour. I will try my darndest to find evidence of this although I will probably turn up blanks.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Proof or no proof, I would be contacting the police..This is wrong - the professionals will find evidence - if such acts are being carried out...


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## Carla-Jade (Jul 28, 2010)

the dog is not at all making a conscious decision at all :


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> I personally wouldnt place Jack in prison for allowing such behaviour. His punishment shoudl be psychological rehabilitation. The rehabilitation he should have ensured that Bruce received.
> The dog is making a conscious choice to perform these acts on Jack and Jack may or may not be reciprocating. What I find unacceptable is the grooming behaviour. I will try my darndest to find evidence of this although I will probably turn up blanks.


Conscious decision? Dogs do not make decisions like we do, they act on instinct, purely and simply. How can you say that dog is making a conscious decision to participate in this? Next you will be saying it is the dog's fault.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

If the rescue centre are believing that this issue is 'dominance' related, don't listen to it. Without making this into a dominance debate, it is important to realise how natural mounting is (as many have mentioned) and that dominance has no place in describing dog-human or, hardly, dog-dog 'problem' behaviours. So if the rescue are saying that this is dominance related (which I find hard to believe because most rescues are clued up on this issue) don't take the dog for help there, look into a positive reinforcement based behaviourist.


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

Conscious decision was perhaps the wrong phrase. What I mean is the dog is initiating the action rather than the human. Jack isnt doing anything apart from allowing himself to be the object of Bruce's affection.
Im at Jack's house now and have noticed only the absence of toys. Bruce is in fine form greeting me with a rambunctious display, I brought a sonic hooter along however to dissuade him. I recommended this to Jack and he brushed it off saying that he has found a means of controlling the behaviour. On further probing he refused to disclose more.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> Yes I suspect Jack is having sex with his dog or rather allowing the dog to have sex with him


The reason I find this thread a bit silly at this point is - if you suspect this is going on why aren't you doing anything about it? Why are you staying over?! Why aren't you voicing your concerns to the police, the rspca, anyone except an internet forum that can't actually do anything physical to help?!?!

It's just so ridiculous I can't believe it

If I thought my friend had a dangerous dog, or was mistreating their dog in ANY way I would have reported it. If I thought my friend was out of his depth with training, I'd be calling the breeder, the vet, dog behaviourists, trainers....

I would not start a thread online and go investigating it for proof. I'd do something more useful and less dramatic.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

pogo_savvy said:


> Conscious decision was perhaps the wrong phrase. What I mean is the dog is initiating the action rather than the human. Jack isnt doing anything apart from allowing himself to be the object of Bruce's affection.


You seem pretty sure about all this/whats going on - for someone that as of yet has no proof! :001_unsure:


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

It sounds more like a crime scene investigation than a dog problem at the moment.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> You seem pretty sure about all this/whats going on - for someone that as of yet has no proof! :001_unsure:


In the first post they describe witnessing the dog aggressively mounting their friend. What more proof is there than actually seeing something with your own eyes?


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

I'm not in the practise of betraying friends. If he is innocent then I will have lost a friend for no cause. The reason I posted this thread was to help others who may encounter the same problem. Upon searching the internet I found no sources of assistance whatsoever - this should be remedied.
I have noticed little cues such as Jack wincing in pain when he fell on his chair after a victory cheer (we were playing fifa) The chair was cushioned so it is unlikely that it was a natural reaction.
Evidence is mounting but yes you guys are right this is just too ridiculous to be true. There has to be another explanation there simply needs to be for his and his dog's sake.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Helbo said:


> In the first post they describe witnessing the dog aggressively mounting their friend. What more proof is there than actually seeing something with your own eyes?


He saw the dog mount the human after pushing him to the floor - the friend tried to get away, nothing there would make me suggest the human then went onto have 'sex' with the dog! But then like I said if I thought it for one second, I would call in the police.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> I'm not in the practise of betraying friends. If he is innocent then I will have lost a friend for no cause.


I'm not in the practice of staying silent when a dog's welfare may be at stake.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Devil-Dogz said:


> He saw the dog mount the human after pushing him to the floor - the friend tried to get away, nothing there would make me suggest the human then went onto have 'sex' with the dog! But then like I said if I thought it for one second, I would call in the police.


I never said this was proof that he had sex with his dog - you're drawing your own conclusions there.

I did say in an earlier post that i think this whole thing is ridiculous. If I believe any part of these posts, it's that this friend has a dog he can't handle and should be getting help before he gets bitten.

The difference is the OP said they believed sex could be taking place between the dog and human. If I thought this about someone I'd be acting immediately to end the situation

There is however proof that the dog being aggressive and forcibly mounting it's owner. It was be mounted or be bitten badly by the sounds of it. The witness was 'frozen' from fear. An experience that would lead me to do more than post on a forum.


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

If we all went around acting on every least suspicion the police would have no time to attend to anything - they'd be too busy trying to attend to non issues raised by people such as you. 
We haven't yet established whether an animal's welfare is at stake. If indeed further evidence comes to light which suggests that Bruce is laying down the law on Jacks arse then I will not silent. If however I have only the very insubstantial evidence that I have thus far been presented with I will not interfere. 
I may ring the RSPCA and ask them to perform a check on Jack's house if by the end of the evening I leave empty handed


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Call me whatever you want. 

I don't believe most of your posts so it's hard to give advice about who you should be telling/getting help from

If it's as I suspect, and keep saying, that your friend is just out of depth with his dog then no, I wouldn't be going to the police because i'm not an idiot. And I don't crave attention and melodrama - unlike some 

You cant in one post and the title (!!) say this is a 'Serious cause for concern', and then shout at us when we say serious action needs to be taken. You can't post it's a huge deal the way this dogs behaving and then in another post make out like it's no big deal and you're just going to keep an eye on it. Make your mind up. 

And just to be clear - I never said the animals welfare was at stake. YOU were the one telling the forum you think your friend is having sex with the dog - possibly just as the recipient - but still! All I was saying is that If I believed this to be true as you seemed to, I would do more about it than post online, whether my friendship was at stake or not. 


One thing I can be clear on. I would take any action necessary to protect an animal's welfare, or to protect people from a dangerous dog (i.e a dog that aggressively bites).Thats not being self-rightous, that's just being sensible.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> If we all went around acting on every least suspicion the police would have no time to attend to anything - they'd be too busy trying to attend to non issues raised by people such as you.
> We haven't yet established whether an animal's welfare is at stake. If indeed further evidence comes to light which suggests that Bruce is laying down the law on Jacks arse then I will not silent. If however I have only the very insubstantial evidence that I have thus far been presented with I will not interfere.
> *I may ring the RSPCA and ask them to perform a check on Jack's house if by the end of the evening I leave empty handed*


Good luck with that. Contrary to public opinion, the RSPCA have no legal powers of entry and they fail to act most of the time anyway.


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

The beginning and end of your post conflict. On one hand you dont give a toss what I may call you and on the other hand you seem to be justifying yourself to me.
I dont crave melodrama, I feast on it. No. In actual fact like I said once already this is about raising awareness. Hopefully enough people will come out of the woodwork and begin to tell their stories. Heck we may even start to coax the zoophiles out of hiding to give an account of themselves.

If you dont believe what I say then again my suspicions that you arent able to tell the truth between evidence and vague cues are confirmed. There are no contradictions here for you to doubt my story. Every detail is factual and correct since its based on a real life occurence. Finally i've answered every question that has been thrrown at me candidly and honestly.

Yes indeed it is sensible to react when an animal's health is endangered. It is however not my responsibility to be meddling in Jack's affairs. From what I see Bruce is healthy and happy apart from obvious anxiety when he is thwarted from mounting and humping. I have nothing to report apart from a few airy fairy suspicions.


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## pogo_savvy (Apr 6, 2011)

The RSPCA will ring the relevant authorities and they will deal with the issue. I alone will not be taken seriously


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> ....When my friend made to leave,Bruce began to growl with his hackles raised. He cornered my friend and peeled back his lips to *reveal those fearsome teeth...and I was frozen to the spot*...Bruce then leapt onto my friend who ended up gashing his knee on the coffee table. *All this time I was rooted to the spot terrified to move* since I was aware that the dog could turn his amorous advances on myself...Once my friend was down Bruce began to mount him barking and snapping every time my friend tried to escape. He was literally being assaulted by his dog.
> 
> I am not sure what I should do do help my friend. Taking him to the vet could result in him being euthanised.*What on earth should we do?*





pogo_savvy said:


> My friend refuses to give him away and for that I admire him. However I reckon *he's out of his depth.* We never spoke of that one incident ever again. However *I can tell by the way that he treats his dog that its happened again*. *He has no choice but to submit to his dog because failure to do so results in him being viciously attacked*.





pogo_savvy said:


> I do believe that Jack may be subtly making himself a target for Bruce. Especially since *he's stopped walking him and has thrown out all his toys*. Its a despicable thought especially since this man has long been a friend of mine. If I discover that this is true I will have lost a lifelong friend





pogo_savvy said:


> Yes *I suspect Jack is having sex with his dog* or rather allowing the dog to have sex with him which may not be illegal as he is a passive recipient.


What part of these posts aren't asking for advice?

Where is the - this is my story, I wanted to share it to raise awareness part?

Which posts here aren't making serious accusations that if true would require a serious response?

Accusations are made not only of the dog being dangerous, but the dog being sexually abused or abusive, and the owner no longer walking the dog...

Nothing to report but suspicions - and oh, they eye-witness account you opened this thread with. And bits of discussions with the owner.

Thats why I find this thread ridiculous and unbelievable. If I were to believe everything you've said then you are absolutely a despicable person for not taking your story to someone who can do something about it! So if you aren't doing anything other than trying to raise awareness online then I don't believe your story to be true - i think you've made it up to lead us all down the garden path with your made-up problem to see what peoples reactions and opinions on these issues are.


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## Rottiefan (Jun 20, 2010)

I have to agree with Helbo, the more I keep up with this thread.

The way I see it is that you, pogo_savvy, have came on here asking for help with an issue that you refer to as serious. If the case is true, it is definitely serious and we have all given you good, solid advice about what to do. Then you say your friend won't listen and that you suspect him of incriminating acts that suggests he, Jack, enjoys or is benefiting from his dog's undesirable behaviour. This has turned you into a spy, staying over at Jack's house and posting updates on an online forum, trying to find evidence of bestiality. 

You have got just what you asked for, IMO. Honest answers, then a surge of responses to your growing animal abuse concerns, and now have become really reactive to everyone because we are beginning to see the unlikelihood of this whole scenario. 

If you have any concerns at all you will report this case, if it is true at all, which I sincerely think it isn't.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Helbo said:


> Thats why I find this thread ridiculous and unbelievable. If I were to believe everything you've said then you are absolutely a despicable person for not taking your story to someone who can do something about it! So if you aren't doing anything other than trying to raise awareness online then I don't believe your story to be true - i think you've made it up to lead us all down the garden path with your made-up problem to see what peoples reactions and opinions on these issues are.


Maybe he is hoping for like minded people to respond. Maybe this is all part of the (his)fantasy..


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## susieborder (Jul 23, 2010)

northnsouth said:


> Maybe he is hoping for like minded people to respond. Maybe this is all part of the (his)fantasy..


I may be way off mark but, i have read all of the OP's posts and how he has writen his description of events cry, Literary Fiction, he uses the written word in such an exagerated, descriptive and dramatic way. such as "*He was admonished but was persistent. He pursued his attempts constantly without remission. All this time he was well stood to attention which made the incident comical whilst at the same time being the stuff of horror films.*

"*Far from just being ocassional humping Jack described it as the actions of a man in his prime who having just discovered the function of a penis goes on a sex crazed rampage. After a week his toys were so soiled they were consigned to the waste bin, and Bruce had to be kept outside. 
Perhaps the most worrying is Bruce's predilection for animals which invade the garden. I refuse to go into detail, as this forum is probably frequented by young people, but Jack opened up about things which had evidently caused him some distress.*"

"Enjoying your speculations are you? *I expect this to become research journal fodder if it becomes a public affair.* I have seen this nympho staffy in inglorious action and can verify personally 90 percent of what has been aid."

There are many more examples of his written word throughout the thread, And i to thought maybe as you northansouth (above) but actually i think he is a literary fantasist with a very sick imagination, well, i hope that is the case.


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

I still find it hard to believe he was able to mount a yorkie did he go down on his knees???? think this post is now getting silly


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

pogo_savvy said:


> I'm not in the practise of betraying friends. If he is innocent then I will have lost a friend for no cause. The reason I posted this thread was to help others who may encounter the same problem. Upon searching the internet I found no sources of assistance whatsoever - this should be remedied.
> * I have noticed little cues such as Jack wincing in pain when he fell on his chair after a victory cheer (we were playing fifa) The chair was cushioned so it is unlikely that it was a natural reaction.*
> Evidence is mounting but yes you guys are right this is just too ridiculous to be true. There has to be another explanation there simply needs to be for his and his dog's sake.


Oh come on why are people taking this seriously it's clearly a WUM.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

pogo_savvy said:


> Wow i'll go through each concern in order:
> a)Jack made to leave: Leave refers to Jack escaping
> b)The gender of the assaulted yorkie: The Yorkie was an intact male
> c)Focus on the sexual element: This happens to be the major element. The issue Jack is having is with a dog who is hyper sexual and who wont respond to him as leader of the pack.
> ...


* I thought Jack was the human.I've read some things on here but i worry about some people.
*


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> * I thought Jack was the human.I've read some things on here but i worry about some people.
> *


Jack is the human; Bruce is the dog.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> Jack is the human; Bruce is the dog.


*Ok have i misread this part? "a)Jack made to leave: Leave refers to Jack escaping". i reads like Jack is escaping.lol*


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok have i misread this part? "a)Jack made to leave: Leave refers to Jack escaping". i reads like Jack is escaping.lol*


Yes I think at that point he was trying to escape from the dog. Since then he seems to have adapted


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

pogo_savvy said:


> I do agreee with you. When I say neutering isn't the answer I mean that it isnt going to cure the problem. Neutering Bruce may help somewhat but the sheer degree of this psychosis is such that it would still be a major major issue.
> * Without making the forum's toes curl I can't go into the full extent of this. Some of you would probably call the K9 death squad if you knew what this dog has been up to whilst in Jack's care.* He is an inexperienced owner. I advised him not to get a Staffie and not to get one with obvious problems, but the problem with adrenaline addicts is that they'll do anything to get a fix. Part of this is Jack enjoying the rush of such an unpredictable and out of control dog.
> I'd say we were candidates for Victoria Stillwell and its me or the dog - then again I think that even she would be reduced to tears by Bruce...


I'm almost beginning to think this is a wind up!

This is a dog we are talking about.

I find it all quite bizarre.

If this is a serious post then of course neutering will help. It can't make it worse! Take away a dogs natural desire then you can focus on the behavioural side of it.

If your friend is committed to helping his dog, then why is he not here?


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

*TO ALL MEMBERS*

To save any credibility I have left for replying to this post.... 

My above reply was made after I had got to the end of page 2.

Had I have read the rest of it I would never have given a reply.

Just wanted to set the record straight!


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## Pineapple (Sep 9, 2010)

Soooo...why isn't OP banned yet?


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> To save any credibility I have left for replying to this post....
> 
> My above reply was made after I had got to the end of page 2!


Occupational hazard  Bit late to try and flush her out though 

I think a Celebrity tie-in though is needed before it would make the papers, no matter how naughty Jack is and I can't see Mills & Boon publishing the tale.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Has no one clicked on yet.....

Its the school hoildays!


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> I was aware of the distinction but satyrical has another meaning entirely


I think if you check, you'll find it's "satirical" after satire.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Jack is the human; Bruce is the dog.


Sounds nice title, but still can't see Mills & Boon putting it on a cover :001_smile:


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## Pineapple (Sep 9, 2010)

hawksport said:


> What would you like them banned for?












Being a troll? A sort of bestiality-obsessed dandy-sounding troll? Is that against forum rules?


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## Pineapple (Sep 9, 2010)

Maybe his 'friend's' issues would be better addressed with a sex therapist then.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

If he is telling the truth then he needs to do something before things are to late... I canny believe that someone would air their concerns to a forum instead of confront the issue or contact the professionals! School hoildays are out - so be prepared for these types of threads.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

I want to stop reading it..................but I can't :yikes: :yikes: :lol: 

Em
xx


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I see no reason to ban him. As Hawksport says, he could well be telling the truth. This is something you could go your whole life without even knowing about it, but nevertheless it does happen so the OP could be genuine. I don't know what a forum can do though; we have given our advice about controlling the dog and our advice about what to do if his friend doesn't want to control the dog, so there it is.


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## susieborder (Jul 23, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> I'm not in the practise of betraying friends. If he is innocent then I will have lost a friend for no cause. The reason I posted this thread was to help others who may encounter the same problem. Upon searching the internet I found no sources of assistance whatsoever - this should be remedied.
> I have noticed little cues such as Jack wincing in pain when he fell on his chair after a victory cheer (we were playing fifa) The chair was cushioned so it is unlikely that it was a natural reaction.
> Evidence is mounting *but yes you guys are right this is just too ridiculous to be true. *There has to be another explanation there simply needs to be for his and his dog's sake.


Think this say's it all


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I see no reason to ban him. As Hawksport says, he could well be telling the truth. This is something you could go your whole life without even knowing about it, but nevertheless it does happen so the OP could be genuine


OK, assume it's the truth and the suspicions are right and some illegal perverted activity is going on.

How to obtain testimony of a credible nature, for the police? If you're now thinking along lines of Behavourist's statement, you'll see where I was coming from all along, and trying to minimise the sexual element.

The OP just doesn't have enough doggy style to judge the situation, and is writing prose as pointed out by others, and doing the "OMG, please help!! This is serious, believe me!!" routine, all looking like attention seeking behaviour. It's like when Tony said "Trust me!" to get the green light for Iraq.

Wouldn't you be more worried about someone getting bitten, given the first eye-witness report. Why would a perv play up the issues via anecdote rather than keep it quiet to a friend (silly toy Yorkie story though they might have mistaken the breed)?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

RobD-BCactive said:


> OK, assume it's the truth and the suspicions are right and some illegal perverted activity is going on.
> 
> How to obtain testimony of a credible nature, for the police? If you're now thinking along lines of Behavourist's statement, you'll see where I was coming from all along, and trying to minimise the sexual element.
> 
> ...


Yes, the friend could just be a drama queen. Or the OP could be a drama queen - who knows?


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## Pineapple (Sep 9, 2010)

RobD-BCactive said:


> It's like when Tony said "Trust me!" to get the green light for Iraq.


Yes, it's exactly the same!

Changed my mind this thread is hilarious. Let the maniac stay!


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

The thing is with trolls, they'll need a new nom de guerre, before they post about a new (hypothetical) friend and situation.

So banning is pointless, better the devil we know. If the OP is innocent, they may post on in future, if not then they'll must create a new ID for a clean slate.


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## Sarahnya (Oct 27, 2008)

Lmao I can't believe anyone is taking him seriously, his first. Post had me in stitches there is no way thisitsfor real It's written like a novel


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

I cant believe anyone is taking this seriously...anymore

After the ridiculous replies from the OP that this is a MAJOR problem and they're really concerned for the dog but they're not going to do anything about it as they'll risk their friendship and then be all annoyed at us because how dare all of us for taking their SERIOUS CAUSE FOR CONCERN PLEASE TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY problem seriously...I mean please! 

And apparently they never asked for advice in the first place, the point of this thread is meant to raise our awareness of the issue. LOL So stop giving advice and be more aware damnit :blink:


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Did they say that? I didn't even read that bit.

It's just a good job the OP has not heard of "targetting"!


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

pogo_savvy said:


> *The reason I posted this thread was to help others who may encounter the same problem*.





pogo_savvy said:


> I dont crave melodrama, I feast on it. No. In actual fact *like I said once already this is about raising awareness*. Hopefully enough people will come out of the woodwork and begin to tell their stories. Heck we may even start to coax the zoophiles out of hiding to give an account of themselves.


Yeah - apparantly this was never about asking for advice, despite the Post number 1 ending with a question asking for advice....it's about raising awareness


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

It sounds like "Pete Townshend" style research to me ...


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## Pineapple (Sep 9, 2010)

RobD-BCactive said:


> Did they say that? I didn't even read that bit.
> 
> It's just a good job the OP has not heard of "targetting"!


Oh no ya'll had to go there!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Raising awareness is something done for a group that has far more members than anyone knows about, if you get my meaning. I for one think that the particular group that he is referring to are most definitely in the minority and can find their own allies.

Oh, well, it was different, anyway.


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