# A Question For Breeders



## MBK (Sep 28, 2008)

Hello - All. I am very new but needed a place to turn so here goes.

I used to breed some years ago but stopped due to not having enough time etc. 

Anyway circumstances are that I am looking to get 2 Kittens.

I have found a breeder and the kittens are wonderful.

But I am starting to feel a little uncomfortable with the prescriptive way in which the breeder is behaving.

I have already paid a deposit, what do I do?


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

If you ain't comfortable for whatever reason walk away and loose the deposit.


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## MBK (Sep 28, 2008)

Yes but £150 is a lot of money to walk away from.

Do I just grit my teeth and smile and nod. Nothing wrong with the kittens they are beautiful.

And deal with whatever happens as and when?


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## deedeedee (Apr 2, 2008)

Hya 

Why do you feel uncomfortable?

D x


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

what are your concerns with regards to the breeder?


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

MBK said:


> Hello - All. I am very new but needed a place to turn so here goes.
> 
> I used to breed some years ago but stopped due to not having enough time etc.
> 
> ...


Can you explain what you mean by 'prescriptive way'? please


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Ok well hard to answer when we don't know the details.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Could you explain further please, it's hard to help you with what you've said*


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Welcome to the forum xx

As asked - how do you mean hun?? xx


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## MBK (Sep 28, 2008)

Various reasons I am a bit nervous to go into full details on here as I do not know if the breeder uses the forum.

Having told I have been a breeder she has treated me like a cat novice from Day 1. I have actuall had this type of Cat for many more years than this lady.

She sent me a kitten info sheet - OK I used to talk this through with the new owner when they came to collect the kitten/s.

But it is so prescriptive down to home many litter trays what cleaner to use how many food bowls the list is virtually neverending.

I think I am going to have to bite the bullet and chat to her. Hopefully we can come to some arrangement and my deposite might not be lost.


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

How long has the breeder been breeding??

she may just think she's being helpful and not realise hun xx


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

sounds to me like shes just being thorough and making sure her kittens are going to the right home, even though you have had these cats for years it is her responsibility to inform you of everything and it probably puts her mind at ease that she has done her best for there kittens


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Well to be honest, once you have the kittens, she can't really tell you what to do. If you were doing something wrong that would be different, but you sound like you know exactly what to do. Go with it and be polite and smile ect while you collect them.*


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## MBK (Sep 28, 2008)

Right

Anyone know where I can get a Zip fitted to my big mouth?!?

P.S I totally understand responsible breeding but this is beyond a joke. We all wants Kittens to go to the right home, Goodness knows how many people I have turned away in my time. BUT there is a line and I believe it has been crossed.


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Yeah, I reckon if the breeder does not realise you are as experienced as you say, they are just going through their routine as they would with a complete novice. We have it to do unless you have all those facts in front of you. I give out an advice sheet whether or not its to a novice or experienced person because besides the 'obvious' stuff on it, it also has some tips that even the most experienced wouldnt have heard of.

Sounds like they are just covering their normal careful routine to me, and I would go along with it for the ride


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

£150 or not if I felt uncomfortable I'd walk away. How old are these kittens?


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## MBK (Sep 28, 2008)

OK Saynamore. I understand.

I will just to zip it then. I mean even to a novice it is prescriptive. Almost demanding how and where they spend their 1st night what type of bed they must have. 

Like I say I will grin and bear it. I am under no illusions there will be some sort of binding contract too. I guess I will have to read it very carefully and consider again at that juncture. (A which Point I may be back!)

Thank you all for your advice so far.


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## MBK (Sep 28, 2008)

Fluffypurrs - Really if I could afford to lose £150 then I would walk but I would hope I can be disciplined and adult enough that this would not happen.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*Hmm, I think thats a bit OTT telling someone what bed ect they "must" have.*


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

MBK said:


> Fluffypurrs - Really if I could afford to lose £150 then I would walk but I would hope I can be disciplined and adult enough that this would not happen.


Yes I know. I do hope you get it sorted


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

MBK said:


> OK Saynamore. I understand.
> 
> I will just to zip it then. I mean even to a novice it is prescriptive. Almost demanding how and where they spend their 1st night what type of bed they must have.
> 
> ...


Yeah I would be the same with the contract, some are quite OTT. In fact seeing one or two of them in advance has put me off buying a kit from a particular breeder as they have been far too pedantic!  The breeder may have an excellent reputation but at a certain stage I would say no to being ruled on a kitten I had bought off them if their 'rules' got a bit silly.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

*There are even some that tell you when to mate your queen and which stud you will use Err, not for me thanks. I don't mind advice ect, but I won't be dictated too*


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## MBK (Sep 28, 2008)

Hmm She is also keen for me to show and is wanting me to get them booked in already. 
I am happy to show fine but cant I choose when and where?


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I doubt if most of these contracts could ever be enforced. I mean, even if the court decided the contract had been broken, what sort of remedy woudl they give? They are hardly going to order the return of a kitten because it has been sleeping in the wrong sort of bed!

Liz


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> Hmm She is also keen for me to show and is wanting me to get them booked in already.
> I am happy to show fine but cant I choose when and where?


*Oh, well thats not on really, she can't tell you where & when you should show
When are you due to get them ?*


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

MBK said:


> Hmm She is also keen for me to show and is wanting me to get them booked in already.
> I am happy to show fine but cant I choose when and where?


She does seem to be going way over the top - I hope you don't end up regretting this purchase. Is she a top breeder or something?

Liz


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

MBK - i have to grit my teeth and bear it with one of my queens - but i have her now. The breeder put me through a lot of stress and i had to fight to get my paperwork. but now its all sorted. But I almost walked away

As for contracts - they are not legally binding unless written by a solicitor 
I know the GCCF have one that breeders can use that is written by their solicitor.


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> MBK - i have to grit my teeth and bear it with one of my queens - but i have her now. The breeder put me through a lot of stress and i had to fight to get my paperwork. but now its all sorted. But I almost walked away
> 
> As for contracts - they are not legally binding unless written by a solicitor
> I know the GCCF have one that breeders can use that is written by their solicitor.


EXACTLY!!!!! did she also state what time kitty had to be in bed???


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## MBK (Sep 28, 2008)

Funnily Enough Shortbackandsides - Yes Well how many hours and the hours to sleep after lunch!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

MBK said:


> Funnily Enough Shortbackandsides - Yes Well how many hours and the hours to sleep after lunch!


You're joking, aren't you??!


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

well, yes - I give several information sheets to new owners, and I email them before the kitten is collected so that they have time to read everything thoroughly before the excitement of having a new kitten takes over! Must admit my info doesn't include how many litter trays are needed though 

I agree with the others, just chat to the breeder, thank her for the helpful infomration and explain that you are already an experienced cat owner but you're always willing to learn something new.



vixenelite said:


> sounds to me like shes just being thorough and making sure her kittens are going to the right home, even though you have had these cats for years it is her responsibility to inform you of everything and it probably puts her mind at ease that she has done her best for there kittens


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## deedeedee (Apr 2, 2008)

MBK said:


> Funnily Enough Shortbackandsides - Yes Well how many hours and the hours to sleep after lunch!


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## MBK (Sep 28, 2008)

Sadly not I am afraid.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

MBK said:


> Sadly not I am afraid.


How absolutely bizarre! What does she expect you to do, shut the kitten in its playpen and tell it to go to sleep?

Is this a new breeder or an established breeder, or what?

Liz


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Is the deposit non refundable? This Breeder sounds crazy!


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## Saikou (Apr 2, 2008)

Unless he/she is planning on coming around and checking up on you at their supposed nap time etc, then if you like the kittens and they are just what you want, I would just agree with everything then do your own thing when you get them home  Contracts are for important things like active/ non active etc and committing to ensuring the kitten is well looked after and receives all relevant veterinary care.

I've only been breeding for 6 years, do you become more insane the longer you do it


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> MBK - i have to grit my teeth and bear it with one of my queens - but i have her now. The breeder put me through a lot of stress and i had to fight to get my paperwork. but now its all sorted. But I almost walked away
> 
> As for contracts - they are not legally binding unless written by a solicitor
> I know the GCCF have one that breeders can use that is written by their solicitor.


Any contract can be binding, even if it is verbal only. But it has to be proved to be so in a court of law if there is a dispute.


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## Selk67U2 (May 5, 2008)

> Yes Well how many hours and the hours to sleep after lunch!


* How do you tell a kitten to go to sleep! She's out of her tree

Just get the kittens and then ignore her after that. If she rings or anything and starts ranting on, make a polite excuse that someone is at the door or something. Those requests are just not real!*


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Janee said:


> Any contract can be binding, even if it is verbal only. But it has to be proved to be so in a court of law if there is a dispute.


No contract is binding unless written in a legal way - i know this from first hand experience of having to fight in court myself!!!
And it goes without saying that it is only the court that you need to prove this to! 

Someone i know had given someone a contract that says they cannot breed from the cat and that it is on the non-active register, and they bred from it anyway and demanded the cat go on the active register.
She took them to court and the court told them that the contract was not legally binding because it was not written by a solicitor and was not written using legal wording - and the conclusion was that the court made the breeder change the cat onto the active register.
It doesnt get much clearer than that does it?


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

This is a common misconception - a contract can be a legal contract but not be enforceable in a court of law. Every breeders contract I personally have seen is a legally valid contract in that all the components for a contract to be formed have been satisifed but the terms contained within them have not all stood up to be challenged in court for being unfair or too restrictive or poorly drafted so the meaning is uncertain.

It is not enough for there to be a contract to exist in law. The terms must also be enforceable which is why it is advisable to seek legal advice when first drafting your breeders contract and why the GCCF give an example version to help guide.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Soupie said:


> This is a common misconception - a contract can be a legal contract but not be enforceable in a court of law. Every breeders contract I personally have seen is a legally valid contract in that all the components for a contract to be formed have been satisifed but the terms contained within them have not all stood up to be challenged in court for being unfair or too restrictive or poorly drafted so the meaning is uncertain.
> 
> It is not enough for there to be a contract to exist in law. The terms must also be enforceable which is why it is advisable to seek legal advice when first drafting your breeders contract and why the GCCF give an example version to help guide.


Yes exactly


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Back to the pendantic exatitudes of a breeder who makes micro-management seem like the big picture - I would agree with others who say, in general, breeders will produce a "pack" containing a lot of information for all their new kitten homes. This Pack may be adapted depending on the client. Some don't trouble themselves to adapt as necessary. However the breeder in question here sounds like an over-possessive individual who lacks the confidence to know how to "read" people well enough. This means that common sense seems to have flown away completely. 

Just go along with it - humour the person, play the game and then when you have YOUR kittens, they really will be yours and you may choose to stay in contact or not. 

As a breeder myself (and probably like many here) I like staying in contact and am willing to mentor if needed but don't push my will upon people. Its fair enough to offer suggestions but to lay down the law like this is just overbearing. Far too heavy. 

By the way - just thought I might add - wonder how this person would be if you behaved like this with them? After all, you have more experience - try asking them how they would feel if you were to tell them exactly what and how to feed kittens etc etc. 

Hope you have a nice long and safe travelling distance from your house to the breeders. LOL


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## shortbackandsides (Aug 28, 2008)

sounds like a nutty old cat lady to me


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## MBK (Sep 28, 2008)

Thanks Ra - Yes it is some distance too which may be a great thing!


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