# Too old for first litter?



## freyadevon (Jul 13, 2010)

I wonder whether we have left it too late to mate our healthy large bitch, who will be over 5 by the time she has a first litter. We were at the vet yesterday for a vaccination and the vet seemed to think, contrary to what we had read, that although over 5 is not the best age to have a first litter, it is nevertheless not the end of the world, particularly for a largish (labrador size) dog. 

The vet did say that the chances of a caesarian were higher and that this seemed to be the main objection to the later first pregnancy. I had read that it takes it out of an older bitch, the pregnancy and the feeding. What I would like to be directed to, if anyone can help, is some research which tells me the statistics of much more likely than for a younger bitch our bitch is to need a caesarian and also how much more likely she is to have other problems. Does anyone know the answer (the vet was very vague) or can you direct me to the answer - and any other advice is very gratefully received!

Many thanks


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2010)

In my opinion five is too old for a FIRST litter! Even for a larger breed who are 'thought' to whelp easily.
Wouldn't risk it myself.
regards
DT

ps! soulds like you have a good knowledgeable vet there! there are many that know little about breeding


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## houndies (Aug 8, 2008)

I think the general rule is for a female 5 - 6 years old. Of course it depends on breed, health, litters before? What breed is she and I'm just wondering why you want to breed her? Personally I would never put my girl through it especially at her age.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes, IMO. I was once tempted to breed one of mine as she was so wonderful - but the breeder I took her to advised against it at her age. Looking back, I`m really glad I didn`t put her through it.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Yes, I too think it's too old - 4.5 -5 would be the oldest. In addition to the increased risk of c-section (and it must be remembered that this is in itself a risk - not just from a medical point of view, but the stress on a bitch and the puppies that suddenly appear), but also the uterus deteriorates with each season, so the older she is the more thickened it will be.

The vet was probably vague because few vets really have any real knowledge about breeding. C-sections yes, and medical complications, but actual good breeding practices they don't really have the knowledge.

The other thing to bear in mind is whether she has had her relevant health tests done. You don't say what breed, so can't give a comprehensive list of what needs to be done but a labrador sized dog will almost certainly need to be hip and elbow scored and the results for this can take months to come through, so depending on when her next season is, you may have left it too late for these to be done.


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## freyadevon (Jul 13, 2010)

Thank you all for your replies. You have confirmed what I feared but I just wanted to check that the books aren't being over-cautious.

To answer the questions - She is 1/2 collie, 1/4 english setter and 1/4 black lab. We gradually over the years came to a decision to breed her when we saw how much pleasure she gives the people she meets - she is a very calm and beautiful dog and we have to factor in time for people to meet her when we go out shopping! At home too, she is almost the perfect dog - quick to learn, very well behaved, affectionate, loving, quiet, undemanding but loving a good run on the moor. Having said that, she was a nightmare as a puppy - enormously strong jaw and a love of chewing definitely more than other people's puppies - and she hated being left.

This really explains why we have left it so late - that and ignorance because we didn't know there was a cut-off time so early. It was a gradual realisation that although one should think caerfully about whether there are too many puppies in the world already, the world would really benefit from her puupies (assuming of course we could get the right father - a collie cross lab would be the best I thought but a friend's male, 1/2 black lab and 1/2 retriever' is available)


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2010)

It is refreshing to read a response from an owner such as yourself!
You have done your homework, put your dog first, and you have then made the right decision!
Welcome to the forum by the way!!
Hope you stick around!!


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## Oenoke (Oct 17, 2009)

I bred my bitch earlier this year for the 1st time, she was 4 years 2 weeks when mated and 4 years 2 months 2 weeks when she had the pups, if she hadn't taken on this mating I wouldn't have tried again!


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

IME bitches over 4.5-5yrs really do struggle with birth, if they are lucky enough to avoid a c section. I have been involved with breeding since day dot and worked as a midwoof (doggy midwife) for a few years whelping all kinds/ shapes and sizes of dogs, and yes it is always much more difficult whelping an older bitch with a first time litter. Inertia is extremely common in an older bitch as mentioned above the uterus quality decays over time. It always takes time to get a bitch in conditin after a litter, and the older a bitch is (whether first litter or not) it takes months to get weight and muscle back on them.


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