# puppy eating poo and been really naughty



## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

JJ has been really naughty today 4 times .. first he bit me this morning when was just cleaning sleep from his eyes and had just given him a bit of sausage for been good. 

We had to go straight out then but he was behaving on walk so I let him off to play ball he went straight for some horse poo and wouldn't stop eating it and runs off to where he knows I can't get to him with scooter/wheelchair. I eventually got him back and muzzled him and marched him home on short lead quickly.. no stopping to sniff. 

Later he jumped up on worktops and eat a big chunk of cheese left in packet while went to loo briefly I was making cheese on toast so he went back in crate..a few hours later (i needed a rest by then cos pain levels) after redeeming himself with some sound training I let him out to play in garden, went to get so poo bags to clear up bottom of garden he went to top of slope where I can't get chair and wolfed down a huge pile of poo.. dunno if it was his or Inca's! He doesn't seem to be having an allergic reaction or anything he's in the crate and will stay there now other than coming out wee's on the lead in the garden. 

It makes it difficult to give him freedom when he's running off to where I can't get to him and he knows where I can't get with chair now. 

For lead walks he'll have no field play just pavement with double ended lead short and Halti, in fact I might leave him behind and just take Inca as he's been so naughty today. 

I think he's entering teens and I never had male dog this young so whats youngest age I can have him castrated? .. as he needs to be more obedient as assistance dog. 

I'm annoyed as I bought him new bunk bed (original hi-K9) so he can join us in bedroom at night as he was been so good but I can't trust him if he won't stay on bed when have electrical wires near bed etc.. I've caught him licking them before and he turned and bit me when I've tried to get him off so he doesn't get electricuted. Once I've transferred from chair to bed and electric one has gone on charge its difficult to keep getting in and out of bed so he is in crate until the next morning. just till he will stay on his bed all night and just go for quick wee and come back in like Inca does. 

I'm worried his hormones are making him aggressive and I'll have to give him up if he won't behave as obviously it makes it extremely hard for me been on my own and in a wheelchair if I can't trust him to come back and not bite when I do manage to grab him. 

Is it teens or is the Eden food too high protein? He's been on it for a while now about 3-4 weeks? He never ate poo on the other puppy foods (and was getting really good at 'leave it') now he does what he wants .. swallowing orange peel, tablets or sweetners - couldn't tell which they were I'd dropped on floor and either bandage or pantyliner he'd got from bathroom so not sure if its his age or need to switch food (again) or get his furry plums chopped off!


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## GermanShepardOwner (Aug 20, 2012)

IncaThePup said:


> JJ has been really naughty today 4 times .. first he bit me this morning when was just cleaning sleep from his eyes and had just given him a bit of sausage for been good.
> 
> We had to go straight out then but he was behaving on walk so I let him off to play ball he went straight for some horse poo and wouldn't stop eating it and runs off to where he knows I can't get to him with scooter/wheelchair. I eventually got him back and muzzled him and marched him home on short lead quickly.. no stopping to sniff.
> 
> ...


Dogs eating faecal matter is fairly normal, and they do go through stages of this unfortunately. It may well be the food is not providing enough nutrients if he never did it before, so maybe changing foods would help, worth a try. Although when he came back to you, muzzling and not rewarding for coming back will make things worse, he came back to you in the end, whether it was later than you wanted or not, he still did it. Muzzling will not help the issue aswell. He will just not want to come back to you next time if your going to muzzle and put on lead straight away with no praise etc.

I do think your being slightly harsh, putting him in the crate all day because of naughtyness isnt going to change his behaviour, only for time being. With pups you cant lead anything around, have you taught him not to jump on work tops etc? He did what he believed was right and wasnt told any different, its one of them things, you cant leave things around.

He needs alot more training, hes a pup and is excited and going through normal behavioural stages. You need to train a reliable re-call and get him to want to come back to you, muzzling and putting on short lead and putting in crate is not going to achieve anything. He doesnt know hes being naughty, you really cant blame him. I say a year for male dogs, i would always neuter personally unless breeeding.

Your best option is training, it sounds pretty normal behaviour tbh. But the things you are doing will not be helping at all, shutting him away is just a tempory fix. He really does not know he is doing wrong at all, perhaps get a trainer involved to help you, as it could well be sorted with a little training.


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

sounds like you've had a rough day . I wouldn't think it would be anything to do with his food eden is a good quality food . how old is he now? it sounds like he's just getting abit more confident my pup is getting a lot braver these days whereas he used to be a little Velcro dog I am having to work on his recall a bit more now.

I think a lot of people are of the opinion that its healthier to let dogs mature before they are neutered but that's up to you of course . 

could he be teething?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Sounds like puppy behaviour to me. As good a puppy as billy was he would eat poo every chance he got. He used to follow our older dog in the garden and get it from the source, much to the dogs and our annoyance. He was a greedy pup and ate everything, he soon stopped.

Please don't leave him in the crate all day unless to wee, it is a punishment he will not understand.

Alfie was a brave puppy and wouldn't always be everywhere we wanted him to be, it goes hand in hand with having a puppy and a high energy one too. Border collies have an excess of energy and need to be walked, so I wouldn't stop those either, as he will most likely be worse indoors.

He is also very young to be castrated and he should be over a year or two to be fully matured.


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## Beth17 (Jun 5, 2012)

Sounds like he's just being a naughty puppy and possibly isn't getting enough stimulation/exercise. I personally wouldn't be getting him castrated just yet. He also isn't going to understand that you're leaving him behind as punishment or why you're keeping him shut in his crate.

Does he get any one on one time/walks with you?

Honestly I doubt he's becoming aggressive he's just trying it on as he gets older.


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## tanglewood3 (Nov 13, 2012)

All normal puppy behaviour, I'm afraid. It was more your frustration rather than naughtiness. As you are restricted on where you can go, I'd get him a retractable lead for when you're walking.
As for eating something off the worktop, we've all learned that lesson.
As a species, we've just about come to terms with the fact that dogs sniff each other's bottoms, but we still can't find eating poo acceptable. Pick it up as soon as you can and if he is eating it straightaway, take him outside on a lead.
It sounds like you are teaching him to be an assistance dog yourself. Don't forget all these perfect dogs you see out and about helping their owners had a spell with a puppy walker first and then was trained by experienced trainers. You must let him be a puppy and do the basic training before expecting him to do complex things.
See if you can find a trainer who does one-to-one, so that they can come to your house to help you.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Also just to add, if you were to castrate him now, he may end up being immature for longer.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

yes, he was doing really well, he walked well alongside. he behaved beautifully on sunday when visited a lake and he saw ducks for the first time and managed most of the 5 mile run (took just short of 3 hours by mobility scooter.. I can't drive) 

Usually the morning walk is 45mins-1 hour and afternoon one about 30-45 mins depends on weather. If fields are not too muddy we go in so he can play with ball he loves his chuck-it ball launcher, if fields are too wet (scooter gets stuck in mud and we have to turn back) we do traffic training as he had a tendency to lunge and try to chase traffic as it was passing but have been working on that and he's bene doing much better with that. 

At home he enjoys copying Inca and having a go at helping when she's emptying washing machine/dryer or tidying up toys. He'll pick things up I drop if Inca has gone for a rest. He was doing good at 'leave it' too if dropped something like cutlery and instead bringing me the magnetic grabbing handle.

I noticed recently Inca has missed a couple of phone calls as found messages on minicom answer machine so I started teaching him to alert me to phone ringing in case she was going deaf.. They only seem to have been recently usually on the days it was warm and sunny and we were sat out in garden and I'd found the messages on getting back in the house. 

We've had one practice with fire alarm when I set smoke alarm accidently when burning toast.. lol!.. so took the opportunity to get Inca to show him what to do. He wasn't gonna start sound training till after 8-9 months though (he's 5 months old in 3 days). 

My plan was to have all his tasks taught for him hitting 18 months and him taking over by which time Inca would be 13 years old that month. 

I did leave it a bit late but the application process took ages before they told me the waiting list was 5 years! and then took me 7 months to find him. I've had him since he was 9 weeks old (last Nov).. I thought he would pick up loads from Inca watching her 'work' everyday as he was growing up so it would just be normal for him, so it's not all structured teaching. 

I use lots of interactive feeder puzzles too (usually their breakfast is in) so he's learning problem solving skills. He gets plenty of mental stimulation and exercise and doesn't really switch off unless I put him in crate for a rest, though he had been better at that and settling down on sofa at night for a cuddle. 

If my backs really bad by teatime he goes in crate while I have to go lie flat for a bit and I get back up around 7pm and spend a few hours in lounge with him.. playing and cuddles. My older dog likes to be in bed by about 8pm so he gets me to himself about an hour a day then she has me when I go to bed as he sleeps in crate in another room as he wouldn't settle in crate when someone else was in room. I have baby monitor thing in there (camera on his crate and video unit in my room so I can see him) and he settles down and sleeps well. 

I watch telly in bed till midnight so he wouldn't settle while I was awake and in same room (on laptop etc chatting to friends while in bed). I let them both out for last wee just before midnight before I turn lights off and he's fine till about 7am when he wakes up wanting a wee and breakfast. 

Inca is very good I don't have to tell her more than once. She was doing 'sound work' from when she first arrived with me at 4 months but I wasn't in wheelchair then, but she soon learnt there was no point just running to door if someone knocked she had to come back and tell me! .. JJ has learnt already there's no point him just sitting at back door and crying to go out he comes and finds me.. I say 'what? " and he goes to back door. 

He is clearly very bright and I know he knows how to behave (he knows paws on and paws off) I've told him before 'paws off' when he jumped up when I been making dinner or pouring hot water from kettle. he knows to move out of doorway when I'm coming through with chair and not try to get through at same time and waits, sit at kerbs, not get off scooter footplate until I give him the OK so he not jumping off whilst I'm moving. 

He knows all his commands signed and spoken and even chaining commands together to complete a sequence and manage a full job.. pull velcro off trainers.. fetch slippers and put them on my footplate The other night he managed to pull some larger things from dryer as Inca had gone to bed and I'd forgot my PJ's were still in there with towels (as wanted to get in shower when they had gone to bed) so he managed to pull them to front so I could grab them. :thumbup1: :biggrin: 

He gets lots of rewards for these things so don't really understand why he suddenly been naughty and stopped listening... if its not hormones and suddenly started eating all that poo! 

EDIT: I don't know what could be missing from his diet.. other than grains as he had wheat intolerance? I put him on Eden and he has some wet in kongs - Naturesdiet) he also gets fresh and tinned fish added and meat & vegetables depending what I'm doing for dinner. He is teething but has stagbar. half antler (arrived today) and variety of different chews in dog cupboard. I give dried treats.. liver, sausage, fruit, sweet potato done in dehydrator for training as lot of small soft training treats have cereal in but he got a few gluten free ones for when run out of fresh treats.


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

he sounds like he's doing brilliantly for a 5 month old 

my puppy is roughly the same age as him and he has his crazy puppy moments like today he was off lead on the field and he went running up to a lady with a little dog who was the other side of the field , complete recall fail  I apologised and she was fine about it , I was embarrassed as I always call him away from on lead dogs but he's a baby still and these things happen just means I need to work harder on his recall training, I would never tell him off or show him that I was cross if he didn't recall because it just puts them off coming back in the future . he wasn't being naughty he just got overexcited . try not to think of what they do as being 'naughty' its all normal behaviour for a young dog 

my pup also gets funny and mouths my hand when I clean his eyes ect , they don't like it it takes a while to get used too just keep calm and give him lots of calm praise . 

the poo eating is gross but he's a dog they don't realise its frowned upon  , maybe keep him on a lead to do his business if you cant get to clean the poops up straight away just to break the habit


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> yes, he was doing really well, he walked well alongside. he behaved beautifully on sunday when visited a lake and he saw ducks for the first time and managed most of the 5 mile run (took just short of 3 hours by mobility scooter.. I can't drive)
> 
> Usually the morning walk is 45mins-1 hour and afternoon one about 30-45 mins depends on weather. If fields are not too muddy we go in so he can play with ball he loves his chuck-it ball launcher, if fields are too wet (scooter gets stuck in mud and we have to turn back) we do traffic training as he had a tendency to lunge and try to chase traffic as it was passing but have been working on that and he's bene doing much better with that.
> 
> ...


I very much doubt there is anything missing from his diet. A lot of dogs eat poo and collies are one of the worse for doing it.

I was congratulating myself last Autumn that none of my four collies were indulging in this horrid habit, until my sister came to stay with two of her collies. Within a week my sister's youngster had taught mine the fine art of poo eating.

Would it be expensive to cordon off the top part of your garden where you can't get with your wheelchair, at least for the time being? Just a roll of rabbit mesh and a few plastic stakes would do.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

yes it too big it runs length of the garden and small narrow strip won't stop him he'll jump over it. He can jump quite high already. 

I've just been taking him out on extending lead to toilet. He was good for a while came out for dinner and a play then started up again and wouldn't settle down so he went to bed as crate was only place he will settle...so I went for shower and came to bed! 

Hopefully he was just having an off day and will be better tomorrow! 

Would too much protein cause behavioural issues? ...should I try a food with more potato than fish and not as rich in meat to see if there's a difference? 

I still have the small bag of Fishmongers salmon & potato (also grain free) in cupboard I had got before I decided to go with Eden instead...Inca was gonna use it up but wondering whether a more basic fish & potato would be better for him?


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I really wouldn't switch food again for this. I'm sorry, but it sounds like typical collie puppy behaviour. They do go mad at times. Although it is normal every breed puppy behaviour.

Also he is a working bred border collie, they have bundles of energy, more so then pet bred ones. I think it's more that then food.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I've been looking at reasons for dogs eating their poo and wondering if I'm feeding enough..I fished out kitchen scales and charging some batteries overnight.. I'm gonna check how much he should be having on guide.

Problem is I feed naturediet in a kong so can only put as much as will physically fit in it (usually says something like 1/3rd or half a pack - not sure if thats total or just one of the meals)

His dinner is Eden with either some home cooked ontop or bit of Naturediet, or tinned fish which he usually will share a tin of sardines/mackerel with Inca. 

I don't usually weigh the dry just put in an handful or two depending how much is going to be added. 

He has treats throughout day whilst I'm training or he picks something up for me or when was in field and bringing ball back etc...which I figured would equal a third meal (as meant to give them 3 meals a day under 6 months?)..he usually has a bully stick or a cows ear too so sure he can't be hungry?


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Kilo used to eat any and all poo he could find (apart from his own). I tried all sorts but realised that paying him any attention for doing it just made the problem worse. As horrible as it is I left him to it - and it reduced massively. Now he will eat the occasional orange Bakers poo and fox poo and human poo is irresistible :frown2:, but has given up with the rest. If I see it first "leave it" will work, but once he is there I ignore it otherwise he wolfs it down and looks for more. It's awful and horrible but I have accepted now that it's what he does, diet appears not to make any difference.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

I think you also have to bear in mind that 5 month old puppies are naughty...and get worse before they get better - you just stick with it and they come good in the end...


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

I have never heard of too much protein causing behavioural issues , as some people on here feed an diet of all raw meat with no problems I wouldent have thought a good dry food such as eden would cause any problems , the only time ive heard of food affecting behaviour is when feeding a very low quality food such as bakers because of all the additives and fillers ect 

hope you have a better day tomorrow


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I'll stick with the Eden though he's having a frozen naturediet kong this morning. 

I think it's just frustration my life is frustrating when things go wrong trying to get hold of help.. my babies are one of my few pleasures in life that I can manage independently so don't need them to be part of the problems! 

This morning we had to be out early and back for 8am to wait for courier all day. I sets off with mobility scooter and its got a clunking thudding noise from front end (wasn't there yesterday) .. I made it round still but Inca was sick halfway round as we gone straight out without breakfast and I was rushing to get back for 8am.

Have to wait till sunday and hope brother can fix whatever's wrong with scooter to save me another call out charge and waiting for someone to come and fix that next week! 

Luckily I have an old 'back up chair' (electric) so the dogs can still get a walk tomorrow. I've just stuck it on 12hr charge and fingers crossed that gets us into the little park tomorrow!.. again an early morning .. back for 9am tomorrow to wait for housing to send man to do gas servicing sometimes between 9am-5pm.. so kitchen worktops to get tidied up today whilst waiting in for courier to turn up today. (8am-6m.. dunno why can't give a shorter time I'm sure they must know that they wouldn't reach my area till lunch-time or whatever) 

Maybe have to try and get up 6am tomorrow to give Inca chance to have some breakfast before we need to set off for a walk as no footplate available for dogs to ride on if they are sick or injure a paw.. with the chair. 

She's fine now she had some of the Eden with probiotic yoghurt so can mix her Activait in! .. and a bit of my toast! 

Have a kitchen to clean now got my breakfast out of the way while JJ is still busy emptying his kong!!


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

We were doing well he did great tidying and fetching things to be washed. He was wanting to go play football as a reward so went to play, Inca came into garden and poo'd near top and he went and ate it. 

Unfortunatly I'm a bit OCD and have difficulty controlling my temper seeing him eat it so as soon I managed to get him in I stuck him under shower and had to wash his mouth out before he can touch again with his tongue so he's in the crate drying as it's only place I have complete control over him. 

so he's just not gonna be able to be off-lead at all until he stops this completely. 

Hopefully he'll remember eating poo equals shower and getting mouth washed and crate and won't do it.. I've got pet corrector as well I'd got to stop them fighting when Inca kept jumping on him and snarling at him when he first came so that will come out with us on every walk now for as soon as he looks in direction of any poo I can't avoid. 

I'm annoyed with myself.. I didn't have this with Inca she wasn't interested in eating poo but I didn't have this condition either making it even harder. 

unfortunatley the only way I'm gonna be able to deal with this is him never getting opportunity to get to any which means no more off-lead at all even in garden, until he grows out it or I can find a way to put him off. 

Will castrating stop him wanting to eat poo if I can ring vet for help and get him done next month? or is there anything else? I heard about something you can put in their food makes poo taste unappealing so they stop?


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

IncaThePup said:


> We were doing well he did great tidying and fetching things to be washed. He was wanting to go play football as a reward so went to play, Inca came into garden and poo'd near top and he went and ate it.
> 
> Unfortunatly I'm a bit OCD and have difficulty controlling my temper seeing him eat it so as soon I managed to get him in I stuck him under shower and had to wash his mouth out before he can touch again with his tongue so he's in the crate drying as it's only place I have complete control over him.
> 
> ...


I'd be careful that he doesn't associate coming back with unpleasant mouth washing out, think it's probably too long after he's eaten poo for him to make the connection. He might just start to avoid you.

I wouldn't think that castration would make any odds and the stuff you add to food is for those who eat their own poo I believe. Like you I used to feel angry and upset when Kilo was at his worst with it but as soon as I chilled out and stopped reacting he really lost interest in doing it. He still has his moments and days but nothing like he used to.


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

Oh the joys of horse poo eating when Bracken was a pup we did a complete walk with some of this hanging from his mouth he so wanted to take it home yuk.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

More likely he'll associate being caught/coming back with the shower rather than eating the poo. And nope, castrating him won't stop him eating poo. The bigger deal you make of him eating it the more he's likely to do it I'm afraid. You could try giving him pineapple but it never made the blindest bit of difference with my collie and his poo eating. Neither did diet. A solid leave it and picking up immediately was the only thing that did. And even then it only worked if I got the leave it in before he started snacking.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

I'm looking on amazon and they got about 6 different tablets/soft chews so ordered one of each will try together if necessary.. only one I didn't buy which only had 2 reviews that said it didn't work for either of them. Could double dose to make them stronger or maybe vet has something stronger and works instantly that can only be bought on prescription? 

I dunno if can buy canned pumpkin in UK? I thought I'd seen that mentioned somewhere.. I'll try and get some pineapples from local shop. 

Thing is he's handling laundry and stuff as training him as AD and things I have to touch after he's handed them to me so I can't do any of that if he's eaten poo. so I'm afraid he's gonna be in a indoors collie till he gets over his habit and only outside on lead or a tie-out.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

If you keep him as an indoors collie the problems may become a lot worse. There is nothing worse then keeping a border collie, and one from working stock like yours especially, locked indoors.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> Unfortunatly I'm a bit OCD and have difficulty controlling my temper seeing him eat it so as soon I managed to get him in I stuck him under shower and had to wash his mouth out before he can touch again with his tongue so he's in the crate drying as it's only place I have complete control over him.
> 
> so he's just not gonna be able to be off-lead at all until he stops this completely.
> 
> Hopefully he'll remember eating poo equals shower and getting mouth washed and crate and won't do it.. I've got pet corrector as well I'd got to stop them fighting when Inca kept jumping on him and snarling at him when he first came so that will come out with us on every walk now for as soon as he looks in direction of any poo I can't avoid.


I'm sorry to say this but this punishment just seems way too harsh for a puppy doing something that lots of dogs do.

You have to remember he is a puppy. Inca is your assistance dog and he is a puppy and as disgusting as it is, they do this.

Because Billy was so greedy he did it to his own and our other dogs. If he was sick he would try to eat that too.

Punishing a dog with a shower and his mouth washed out is like people used to punish children. You cannot use a shower like a punishment for a puppy!!! He will then grow to hate that and what happens if he needs a wash?

You seem to forget that JJ is working bred, he will need offlead running and exercise and to crate him as punishment and not walk for it too, he will not understand.

I'm sorry but that just seems way too harsh on a little puppy.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Keeping him indoors and restricting his exercise is probably going to cause you more problems in the long run than a little poo eating will. Personally I think he needs time to mature a bit before you start seeing him as an assistance dog anyway, he's still just a baby after all.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

He'll still get walked and go in garden when its not too cold for me to sit outside with him but will only be able to play at bottom I'll use long line or tie out so he can't get to slope and make sure there's no poo around where he can get to. 

I've got some tablets and teeth cleaning/mouth wash/20ft long line for dogs all coming on express delivery so should be here before 1pm tomorrow so we should be able to get back on track at weekend. I got him a new treatball to get his interest so can disguise the tablets in wet food in there and he can chase that up & down the path.... his new 'camp' bed should be coming soon so if can find a way to tie him out just outside door he can lie on his bed in the sun with his antler chew too and can set one of the baby monitor camera's up watching him... so he'll get some outside time. .. just not as much off-lead freedom till he can be trusted not to eat poo! 

I'm stuck waiting about for deliveries and gas engineers for next two days anyway! .. I believe we are forecast some more snow which may help as he was more interested in catching snowballs than playing with his footballs when it snowed before so that might help to break the cycle too.

My bro is coming at weekend to see if he can sort my scooter, I can get him to clear the poo on top of slope and make sure both dogs only poo on-lead in bottom area that I can get to and clear up immediately. (I've got long handled pooper scooper but doesn't reach to stop of the slope.. back fences where they usually like to go). 

In fact I just thought.. I could take them out front to poo then if does it on drive it can be washed down with water and scrubbing brush easier and front garden is flat (but open plan so they usually on a lead anyway).. more work for me as easier for me to slide out of bed open back door (in my bedroom as a fire exit for getting out with chair at night in event of fire) and just let them in garden when they need to go.. but maybe a short term solution till he gets over it?

I'm just mystified though .. the time he had severe squits and in and out to loo nearly every hour and he had no interest in his poo whatsoever??.. suddenly in last two days its 'tasty'?.. only thing thats changed is him been fed Eden for last few weeks. I know the Eden is tasty to them as even Inca will eat the kibble dry and she has never eaten her JWB dry ever... always had to mix it with water 'something else' (fish/meat etc)


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

You want to tie him up outside on his bed for outdoors time?


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> I'm looking on amazon and they got about 6 different tablets/soft chews so ordered one of each will try together if necessary.. only one I didn't buy which only had 2 reviews that said it didn't work for either of them. Could double dose to make them stronger or maybe vet has something stronger and works instantly that can only be bought on prescription?


Are you going to give these to your puppy or your older dog?
Wouldn't it be a better long-term solution to teach him a solid leave it or recall? My dog will try to eat horse/sheep/fox/bird poo (and dog poo but only on very cold days when it is frozen) but 9 times out of 10 I can catch him early enough and recall him away or get him to leave it. 
I think that washing his mouth out is very harsh and you could end up with a dog who is anxious of being handled.


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

I understand its a horrible thought him eating poo and then coming in the house but washing his mouth out with the shower sounds a bit extreme .. as another person said you don't want him to see the shower as something unpleasant . dogs lick there bums anyway remember . 

best thing to do Is just practice extra hard on a leave it command using a treat that is really high value , maybe liver cake or something else he really likes something that is more interesting than poo ? 

could you get a trainer/walker to come in once or twice a week maybe to take him out for some extra stimulation and training?


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

he's getting training every day in several sessions and 90 mins of walking.. He'll go and lie on his day bed (soft igloo bed) with his chews while I do my physio on a passive trainer bike (motorised pedals legs for me).

He's great in the house and learning all the tasks really well he enjoys copying Inca and joining in. He's only in crate for sleeping at night usually so I can lie flat at night and not have to keep getting up every 5 mins to see what he's into... and the few times I go out without them like to doctors surgery.. these aren't often.. once a month if that (have bank trip next thurs thats it for this month) 

They have most of the Nina Ottosson collection of interactive toys as Inca has been collecting them for years!.. so he's really not short on mental simulation and gets two walks.. trotting alongside scooter twice a day (slightly quicker than most people walk I guess even going 'slow'). 

I tried asking on Eden's FB group but posts are now monitored so it hasn't gone on until one of their admin has seen it first .. so cannot ask other members if they noticed it making their dog's poo more tasty and perhaps eating it when the dog hasn't shown interest before in doing so. I noticed they are getting alot more smellier when I've had to carry it on scooter basket to dispose of at home I have to empty kitchen bin straight away too, it's much more smelly than Inca's now even though it is firmer than he was on wafcol.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> I tried asking on Eden's FB group but posts are now monitored so it hasn't gone on until one of their admin has seen it first .. so cannot ask other members if they noticed it making their dog's poo more tasty and perhaps eating it when the dog hasn't shown interest before in doing so.


I doubt it is the food, and even if it is I really wouldn't change again for this.

It seems to be a phase most dogs will go through. As someone has said, they find smelling bums great fun, this is just the next step up.

You say Inca didn't do it but you have to realise they are different dogs with different personalities. Alfie is completely different to my last dog Billy, Billy was calm and gentle and Alfie is always on the go and was quite a boisterous puppy and still charges around. JJ will of course have a very different personality to Inca and the extremes notice as she is older and calmer and he is only a puppy and puppies are always quite a challenge.


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## Beth17 (Jun 5, 2012)

I think you are being very extreme with the poor pup and are only going to make him afraid of you if you force him under and shower his mouth. Likewise 90mins of walking a day sounds a lot, my 11 month old doesn't get that. It's possible some of his hyper 'naughty' behaviours are a result of over stimulation.

I understand you want him to work but you seem to be asking a lot without allowing for normal puppy behaviours.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

From what I've seen most organisations who train assistance dogs focus on the basics and socialisation for the first year or so of the dogs life and then go on to the advanced behaviours later. The dogs aren't working as assistance dogs until about 18 months to 2 years old. At 5 months JJ is still very much a puppy. Keep shutting him in his crate for long periods as "punishment" that he won't understand is just likely to lead to him disliking his crate.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm sorry but these threads just make me want to scream "Let him be a puppy!!!". I feel like you are placing an awful burden of expectation on the little fella - I understand why but what pressure for a pup to cope with.


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## Jenny Olley (Nov 2, 2007)

You've got yourselves in a bit of a pickle. All puppies can be hard work at times, collie pups are very busy, busy, always looking for stuff to do, and of course with your limited mobility it is hard.

I have to agree with the others keeping him in a crate for long periods will make him more frustrated. He is as has already been said from working/sport stock, which can be a challenge in itself.

I am assuming the 90 mins a day exercise is off lead or on a long line, not lead walking with the scooter.

I would up his training sessions, small amount 10 or 20 times a day, I know my collie pup would be unlivable with if he wasn't doing loads of sessions, using his brain will not only tire him out, but will help him settle.

The poo eating is something some dogs do, some grow out of it some don't, in my experience the more fuss that is made over it the more obsessed the dog becomes with it, and as you know if there is one thing a Collie excels at it is being obsessed.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

we go to different field/park each day.. if route is mainly on main road he rides on my scooter footplate till we got to pavement he can safely walk alongside. 

We do some pavement walking alongside cars as I'm working on his lunging habit, but we usually go to a field where i can let him off and he can play with his chuck it ball launcher and kong air balls. 

When we have heavy rain though scooter gets stuck in mud so routes are more restricted. I do use an extending lead and find routes with grass alongside or theres a 'woodland' area on estate opposite where path has wire over gravel which gives me better traction when its wet. He's on extending lead through there and free to sniff at their own pace around the little paths. 

Also an enclosed old Tennis court in next village I can use if fields are bad for several days and he can play ball in off-lead or some training and a farm road thats concreted all way down with field running alongside.. so he can be on grass. I don't let him off there unless I can actually get into middle of that field with him cos of cars and tractors coming down there with his current habit of chasing! 

Morning walk is about 45mins-1 hour total for older dog but JJ is riding some of the time and afternoon walk is quickly to nearest bit of grass. 

He plays ball in garden.. prefers his rugby ball and mini space hopper in garden! .. brings them to back door for me to fling 

we do several small sessions of training throughout the day.. they tidied toys away today and fetched clothes for washing machine. Inca will be emptying dryer later.. if JJ wants to join in and do a few things I let him... lso do things like basic sit-stays and down-stays and taking it turns to follow different commands or pick up different items. 

I did take them out again as was fed up of waiting for this courier that still hasn't come yet (spotted neighbour arriving home and asked her to watch out for me so could take them out) .. there were several piles of poo about on field behind the bus terminal and he didn't rush to eat all those or even stop to sniff some. 

only showed interest in his and Inca's (whose also been having some Eden) and her poo is also getting really smelly.... was no bin where they poo'd so had to bring it home in scooter basket.. really get a strong whiff of it everytime pass kitchen bin if leave it in there I have to put it straight into outside bin! There is a really strong smell lingering in the house and it's the same smell and he definitely hasn't done anything in the house.. the smell is coming off him (despite the shower!) 

other than their own and only in last 2 days.. only poo he shown interest in was horse poo.. also very strong smelling! 

I've decided to conduct my own experiment and go back to a single protein dog food and try and find one that produces the least smelly poo's! I'll start with the small bag of Fishmonger's salmon & potato I had already bought to try and make note of his behaviour etc too. He'll start on that tomorrow and he has Naturediet wet which he is already used to anyway.. see how long it takes me to get rid of the smell!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I really have no idea why you are changing his food yet again. His behaviour isn't about food, he is a VERY high energy breed and a smart one too, they tend to be naughtier puppies. 

Also if he has food sensitivities I wouldn't chop and change with his food so much. Plus he is interested in the horse poo too so they are not on eden.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

it was only water and with little syringe so he'd drink it and clean his tongue before he kissed me again. 

His own poo was not so strong smelling previously.. and now it is like Horse poo (yes I realise the horse isn't on Eden!  .. but it's still a very strong smelling poo which is obviously what attracts him to it) 

to me the answer seems obvious seeing him ignore other dog poo's on our walk today after suddenly eating his for 2 days... no strong smell whereas his has become very strong smell and Inca's has recently got smellier after Eden kibble (after been so surprised to find she would actually eat it dry) 

I'm guessing the high meat content might make it smell stronger and he's also been having dehydrated liver and sausage alot recently as treats... so that's why I'm suspecting it's to do with diet the more I think about it. 

He's playing happily now in lounge with his toys and a deer antler. He's sat in front of me on footstool (beanbag cube) one of his favourite perches at the minute with his deer antler .. occasionally jumping off to bring a toy for me to throw for a bit... he gets plenty of 'playtime' and time to just be a puppy chewing on his toys/chews. He usually settles down to sleep sometime between 8-9pm. 

I put his puppy teething rings in freezer then when he goes in crate for night they go with him so he got something if his teeth/gums are bothering him and he takes his Kong Froggy to bed (with the ropes through) He is very good at night... has a chew on his toys then settles down to sleep (have camera on crate so can see him)


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I would get rid of the liver treats before changing kibble again. It's most likely that or sausage if you are worried about the smell.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Update: We were doing well he was ignoring dog poo in fields. My brother had come and cleared dog poo of top of slope and fixed scooter at weekend.

Inca must have poo'd up at the top and she usually is reliable and knows to go where I can get to it.. but as soon as let JJ out he found it and was wolfing it down again again which sends my emotions through the roof instantly (like rage)..sure I must have OCD! 

I got him in house with the duck treats which had just arrived and he had to go in crate..I spent 15 misn scrubbing my hands as he licked one as I was putting him in crate and I hadn't made him drink water to get the poo out of his mouth then had to sit with a brandy to calm down and stop shaking before I can let him out again to go in kitchen for a drink. 

I'm trying to resist the urge to shower him again and wearing gloves instead incase he licks then they can be thrown in the bin if he licks before his mouth is clean

I had given him the coprahagia tablets made by same company as serene-um but in evening he was chasing shadows and next day was really nervous on walk.. crying on scooter footplate when he's been used to it since 9 weeks old and lunging at traffic more so I stopped giving him them..now he started eating it again. 

Luckily I bought another brand of coprahagia tablet at same time so will try them and hope they don't have same effect on him otherwise I don't know what I can do other than him never be off-lead so he can't get to any. 

I am researching OCD to see if I have the symptoms.. I have been housebound 7yrs so get anxious having to go anywhere other than round village with dogs and back...I didn't think I had it cos saw it on TV and they are all obsessed with cleaning their houses and I'm not, but don't have a cleaner/carer cos I can't cope with strangers coming in and touching all my stuff? 

so frustrating bad day after thinking he was over it. Interestingly Inca has been on the Eden finishing it to see if increased protein would sharpen her brain functions and so it didn't get wasted...so even though JJ isn't on it anymore he still finding her poo tasty when she's on it? ..the rest of the Eden is going in bin now the Bob & Lust has arrived as I really can't deal with the poo eating!! 

He's ignored every other poo though for last 2 days even in field when he's been off-lead and some distance from me (cos we'd been playing ball) the Eden food is only connection I can find ..when he was on it and when Inca has been on it to use it up?? ..so eggs are off the menu for both of them in case its that. 

I'm anxious about feeding him the Bob & Lust now in case the lamb (in the wet) & duck (kibble) make it strong smelling and wonder if they should just both be on plain white fish and potato?


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I would see your GP about this. Whilst no one is thrilled if their dog eats pooh your reaction seems extreme. You keep ignoring the advice to stop changing food and now you've got different treats. All of that is going to upset his stomach. In the meantime put them on long lines when they go to the toilet as then you can make sure they do a pooh where you can pick it up. Please try to remember he is just a puppy.


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

Jobeth said:


> I would see your GP about this. Whilst no one is thrilled if their dog eats pooh your reaction seems extreme. You keep ignoring the advice to stop changing food and now you've got different treats. All of that is going to upset his stomach. In the meantime put them on long lines when they go to the toilet as then you can make sure they do a pooh where you can pick it up. Please try to remember he is just a puppy.


How come he's not eating his own poo when he's no longer on Eden and other dogs poo in the field for last 2 days .. then as soon as he accidentally gets access to Inca's, whose been using the Eden up he's wolfing it down again?

There is other poo in the garden I might add that is his (he's been on bland diet all over weekend) that he ignored and went past to get to Inca's. I went and cleared it but was surprised he went past two of his own and only specifically went for Inca's (which he only started doing since also started Eden too) That can't be a coincidence to me!

Anyway the Eden's gone I couldn't cope with it been in house so it went in bin before bin men came. he can't go back on the wafcol as makes his eyes run and itchy again so may as well start introducing the Bob & Lush into his bland diet VERY slowly.

Inca's on bland now too to try and get the smell out of her poo's but I will research the OCD thing further.. I didn't need to shower him today.. I managed to convince myself ONLY his mouth was dirty and gave him bowl of water which he drank and his toothpaste and brush arrived today so managed to clean his teeth as luckily he likes the flavour of the toothpaste so was no problem with that!.. so this time wasn't quite as bad on a scale of 1-10 as last time!

I got some herbal calming tablets for me on next day delivery as have to wait until family can get time off work to help me get to surgery (doctor will only do home visits for emergencies due to shortage and it holding up surgery for everyone else).. but I will get that looked into. Thanks


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I have to admit I would find the poo-eating utterly revolting !!! Thankfully, being a novice dog owner of 6 weeks duration to an older dog, she has shown very little inclination but not sure how I'd cope if she did !!


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

Have you thought of contacting an organisation like DIAL? It seems a shame that you can't do things like go to your doctor without family taking time off.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

SusieRainbow said:


> I have to admit I would find the poo-eating utterly revolting !!! Thankfully, being a novice dog owner of 6 weeks duration to an older dog, she has shown very little inclination but not sure how I'd cope if she did !!


It is revolting. I just cope with patience and humour (in the main ). It used to really wind me up and make me feel irrationally angry (never shouted at Kilo / acted upon it), but as I said the bigger deal I made the worse the problem got. I feigned disinterest and it's mostly stopped apart from the odd morsel...like the enormous pile of human poo and toilet roll found on yesterday's walk  .


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

well garden is cleared again so I sprinkled some of his new kibble over bottom of grass and few bits of duck breast treat and they both enjoyed sniffing them out. 

I thought if I take some with me on walks and he spots some poo and I can throw some treats onto field now he got idea that there's tastier treats he can find with more rewards/praise. Though he went past several poo's on our walk and didn't bother or just sniffed and left. (luckily no-one else in village appears to be on Eden.. lol!) 

Big difference in 'after dinner hyperness' (on home cooked with bit of Bob & Lush) he's laid on his bed asleep while I'm on computer in office and Inca's laid NEXT to him on hers.. usually their seperate & 0she's tried to get to bed out of his way by now and he's zooming round the lounge if its too wet to go out in garden. 

.. and I fed them early to make sure his hyper period was over before 7pm so can go for a shower.. or lie on sofa with him and enjoy some calmer snuggle time for an hour lol! 

Maybe some dogs just can't cope with lots of different proteins in one meal? .. see how we go with the output.. if this one agrees with him I'll stick with it if I can afford to, as I like the courier service with text message and 1hr delivery slot and the zip lock food bag.. makes things alot easier for me... fingers crossed!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

IncaThePup said:


> well garden is cleared again so I sprinkled some of his new kibble over bottom of grass and few bits of duck breast treat and they both enjoyed sniffing them out.
> 
> I thought if I take some with me on walks and he spots some poo and I can throw some treats onto field now he got idea that there's tastier treats he can find with more rewards/praise.


I suppose it could sway him into eating other treats on the floor.

I personally do not like Alfie to pick up any food on the floor while out as you never know what it could be, so I never give him a treat on the floor while walking as they may think any food on the floor is fair game.


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

if he's clicker trained you could try playing the "find the poo" game. I stole this from someone on facebook as it struck me as a sensible positive solution.

" I turned my poo eating dog into a poo finding dog.

I took her out into the dog run armed with clicker and treats and as soon as she put her head down towards a poo I clicked, she looked up and got a treat.

It took a while to get the next one whilst she tried to work out why I had clicked but eventually she gave up going through her repertoire and went back to the serious business of poop eating. She put her head down towards a poo, I clicked, she looked up and got a treat.

I continued with the first session until we got the light bulb moment then did a couple more sessions that day and the next day and then put it on cue. 'Find the poo'.

Now when I'm out with the dogs and someone poos and I can't find it I can ask her to. She tells me where it is and then comes and collects her reward."


"I've never seen her eat poo again. That isn't to say she doesn't when I'm not looking but I'm not aware that she does. Initially I frequently asked her to find the poo and rewarded it and then didn't bother so much. If she offered the behaviour when I didn't ask for it, it wouldn't have been rewarded because I doubt I would have noticed she was sniffing a poo and not just the ground."


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## IncaThePup (May 30, 2011)

speug said:


> if he's clicker trained you could try playing the "find the poo" game. I stole this from someone on facebook as it struck me as a sensible positive solution.
> 
> " I turned my poo eating dog into a poo finding dog.
> 
> ...


Not sure I'd want him actively looking for it!..rather have him focused on waiting for me to throw his ball if he was off-lead in a field.

He did one in garden earlier and he never bothered with it. he's been on home cooked over the weekend and just a small portion of the new kibble when it arrived today. It was just Inca's that was still smelling strongly and very loose as she had been finishing the Eden. Hopefully the problem will resolve itself when her poo's get back to normal as he never did it before. in the meantime Inca is toileting in front garden instead where he doesn't go off-lead as it's open plan with road in front.


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