# beta purina?



## BorderCollieMadSooz

When at training class today with my 7 month old collie, trainer was asking what i feed her. Told her beta purina puppy/junior and she looked horrified. I was under the impression that beta purina was a good food with good protein percentage... now i am thinking other wise. 

The trainer is very much into natural treats and no additives etc but realistically not all of us can afford to do this natural route. I dont feed my dog crap but do buy treats and biscuits which arent always as natural as they could be. 

She said my dogs should be on a lower protein as the things i am giving them can be making them even more hyper...... is this right do you think? 

I weigh their food out twice a day so i know the grams they are having is right for their weight and age but i feel bad now that i am not giving them the right stuff. I cannot afford the very expensive food like Arden Grange and RC but she is saying bakers is lower protein and wagg...... is it worth giving them a try do you think? The dogs have very glossy coats and wonder that cheaper food is going to change that.


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## blade100

arden grange aint that expensive.

i used to get it off ebay or swell pets for around £28 a 15kg bag,that was lamb and rice flavour.


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## slakey

Don't put your dog on either Bakers or Wagg, look around online for Arden Grange.


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## Mum2Heidi

I can see your point and mine was weaned onto Beta puppy which I continued to feed for a while. 

Be warned, once you slip into the food malarky, it's a minefield and there's no turning back. 

You really want a food with as high a meat content as you can afford and as few cereals as possible. Unfortunately, they come with a price tag. Once manufacturers stop adding cereal and up the meat, the price goes up too. Quite a few are now incorporating potato instead which my help.
Have a look at CSJ Foods online. I havent used them but here great reports and I think their food is quite reasonable with a lot of helpful advice from their customer service.
I moved from Beta to Skinners but again, it's a lot of cereal, bit of a transition trying other foods down the potato route and ended up paying the price for Acana. Thankfully I only have a small terrier.:thumbup:


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## Cockerpoo lover

If you buy Arden Grange Lamb ( which is the best one according to dogfoodanalysis website) it's also the cheapest one in the range.

Probably around the £27 /28 mark for a 15 kg bag, How much are you paying currently?

AG is much better than what you are feeding currently and don't forget that the better foods usually mean that you don't feed them as much. I had one of mine on that Beta when I didn't know any better and first got him and the vet kindly told me there was better out there and mine are now on Barking Heads and Natures diet.( Although I initially went from Beta to AG when I just had Monty.)

Have a look online for a good deal and get it delivered if you cannot get it locally.


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## Lyceum

Beta isn't as bad as wagg, bakers etc, but it's far from the best, and the ingredients aren't great for the price.

Here's a review of the beta puppy here

Dog Food Reviews - Beta Puppy/Junior with Lamb & Rice - Powered by ReviewPost

I think the first line says it all.

It's not about protein levels, it's about good ingredients. If the protein is coming from rice etc then the dogs digestive system will convert in into glucose and make for a hyper dog, if it's from a good source, like meat it will be absorbed and used properly. And given that beta's first ingredient is rice, and it's only 14% meat and animal derivatives (again, not good) then for the price (if it's any more then...erm free), you're being ripped off. But don't let anyone make you feel bad about it, we've all been in EXACTLY the same position, you don't know till you investigate.

Arden grange is a great food, especially the lamb and rice and vetuk sell it for about £28 per 15kg sack, also berriewoods usually have two bags of lamb and rice for £52. delivered.

But there's a lot of food to choose from. Wainwrights, arden grange, burns, barking heads, orijen, acana, taste of the wild, fish4dogs, skinners (either the duck, lamb, turkey or salmon), natural dog food company. To name a few. If you do consider changing foods and you have a budget I'm sure we'll be able to help you find the best food for the cash, which at the end of the day is what we all try to do for out dogs.


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## OllieBob

Wainwright's Complete Puppy Food from [email protected] isn't too expensive and would be better than the Beta.


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## stevetheskater

One of the biggest problems with BETA, Pedigree, Bakers etc is the sheer levels or utter s*** that goes into them, some of which are proven to cause health and behavioural problems in the animals that eat them

Think of it this way, I'm a chef. If you came to my place of work and asked for a steak, you ate it then said "that was lovely" and I responded with "glad you enjoyed it, its only 14% beef, the rest is meat substitute, Grains and E number Colourings" its safe to assume you would go ballistic. 

When you look at BETA for example, proteins, fats, fibres and so forth look at a good level don't they? And it says on the front of the bag "rich in meat" But just look at this point for me:

a 15kg bag of BETA contains 14% meat. that 15000gram bag contains give or take a bit 1400grams of meat. worrying huh? Compare that to the approx 10000g of fillers and bulking agents in the same bag.

Believe me, I would never judge someone for feeding a dog what anyone can afford, but for the same money or a tiny bit more there are some cracking foods out there.
And as someone said above, you don't know until you sniff around and investigate, fair play to you for looking deeper, no one should make you feel bad for it 
Ask the guys and girls on here, they will help you find your way around the minefield that is dog food  good luck


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## Angie2011

OMG! just been reading the above posts on dog food. I have two Shih Tzu's 1 is now 12 and he has been getting fed on Hill's Science Plan recommended by a Vet  he dose have skin allergies (no flare ups in a year) my other boy is 9 and has HD and is on a special Vet diet!!! is the Hills any good?


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## dvnbiker

umm wouldnt personally feed Hills - there is a reason vets recommend it. 

My dogs are fed the best I can afford. I always look for a named meat source as first on the label and avoid lots of fillers if I can. Mine are currently on WW wet trays - this is 3 BCs who are well know for sensitivity issues and are doing brilliantly on this. Two of them also compete in agility. 

But as I have said this is what suits my dogs, not what will necessarily suit yours but pleas stay away from wagg (its awful). CSJ is good or there is Skinners field and trial that lots of dogs do well on - about £20 per 15kg


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## Angie2011

dvnbiker: Thank you for your reply, i pay £17 for a 3kg bag cant believe Vet's who are there to help our pet's push brand food's on to their clients that basically are not that good  i feel so bad now thinking i was doing the best for my baby (not)  i will take a look around thanx! anyone who wants to bombard me with info PLEASE feel free  Angie


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## Mum2Heidi

There have been absolutely loads of threads here re food. Wet, dry and raw. Have a bit of a search, may be for a couple of brands and you will find one will lead to another.

When I did my initial bit of research one of the best budget foods was Vitalin Adult Maintenance because it's completely cereal free with a good meat content. Quite a few brands have started cereal free since and now lots use potato instead. I would imagine it's still good tho.:thumbup:

Make sure you have a cup of coffee and plenty of time


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## BorderCollieMadSooz

Stevetheskater.... thanks for pointing that out about the percentages. I will definitley be looking more closely at the ingredients. Its so misleading when you read the backs of bags and not really knowing much about the analysis. 

I feel arden grange is within what i can afford to buy going by the prices people have said they get it for from various sites so i will try them on a small bag first. Would you recommend switching them straight away or would it be better to introduce it slowly. I still have around 10kg of puppy junior left you see.

Thank you Lyceum, i shall have a look at the websites you have suggested.


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## blade100

always slowly if u do it too quick the dogs are most likely to end up with the runs.
add some of the old food in with the new food.

try here for arden grange
Discounted Arden Grange Dog Food at Swell Pets | Buy Products for Dogs


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## Lyceum

BorderCollieMadSooz said:


> Stevetheskater.... thanks for pointing that out about the percentages. I will definitley be looking more closely at the ingredients. Its so misleading when you read the backs of bags and not really knowing much about the analysis.
> 
> I feel arden grange is within what i can afford to buy going by the prices people have said they get it for from various sites so i will try them on a small bag first. Would you recommend switching them straight away or would it be better to introduce it slowly. I still have around 10kg of puppy junior left you see.
> 
> Thank you Lyceum, i shall have a look at the websites you have suggested.


I'd introduce it slowly. 10/90, 20/80 etc. Over a week just in case. Some dogs are fine with a quick switch, some get upset tums.

Arden Grange is a great food, but be aware not all foods suit all dogs, so don't despair if that's the case with your dogs and arden grange, there's a few other good foods in that price bracket. But I think you'll be fine. I'd call Arden Grange and ask for some samples too. I'd also think about getting the adult lamb and rice instead of puppy, there's very little difference ingredients wise, but about £10 price wise.

Random, but has anyone else who feeds AG noticed how amazingly soft their dogs coat goes? Mine have nice soft coats but when I feed AG they're always just that bit softer and shinier.


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## Lyceum

Angie2011 said:


> dvnbiker: Thank you for your reply, i pay £17 for a 3kg bag cant believe Vet's who are there to help our pet's push brand food's on to their clients that basically are not that good  i feel so bad now thinking i was doing the best for my baby (not)  i will take a look around thanx! anyone who wants to bombard me with info PLEASE feel free  Angie


Hills isn't a bad food, it's not great, but its far from bakers or wagg. It's just that for the price there is such better foods out there. Don't feel bad though, you were following vets advice, not just grabbing any old crap.

There's a million food threads you should do a search, but Arden Grange is a great food to try.


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## Angie2011

Thanx guy's i will have a look now! but don't be surprised if i am back very soon  as i will probably get confused  Angie


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## Mum2Heidi

Dont worry, the food malarky is v confusing.


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## Angie2011

Mum2Heidi: Arrgg!! very confused already   If i put Benjie's information here it maybe easier to advise me  ~ Shih Tzu 12 years old...Had skin allergies (no flare ups in a year) had colitis a few times ( no flare ups in 3-4 years) Weight between 11.95kg~12.10kg do not want him to put weight on! would want to feed wet and dry. Both my dog's are a bigger size Shih Tzu's than the little teeny one's  any help appreciated!!! Cant believe i'v been such a dufus on the food my baby has been fed on!  Thanx Angie 
PS : the best place to order from Thanx


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## henry

Angie2011 said:


> Mum2Heidi: Arrgg!! very confused already   If i put Benjie's information here it maybe easier to advise me  ~ Shih Tzu 12 years old...Had skin allergies (no flare ups in a year) had colitis a few times ( no flare ups in 3-4 years) Weight between 11.95kg~12.10kg do not want him to put weight on! would want to feed wet and dry. Both my dog's are a bigger size Shih Tzu's than the little teeny one's  any help appreciated!!! Cant believe i'v been such a dufus on the food my baby has been fed on!  Thanx Angie
> PS : the best place to order from Thanx


Good ones for dry: Fish4Dogs, Acana, Arden Grange Sensitive Fish & Potato

Good ones for wet: Natures Harvest, Natures Menu, Wainwrights wet trays (PAH)

If you want to order online, Vet UK is very good with prices.

Acana is very good (available from ZooPlus)

The dry foods above do not have any rice in them.


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## Malmum

I wouldn't touch Hills with a barge poll. Is the food you're feeding your pet killing it? (and making your vet rich) | Mail Online vets recommend it because they get a cut! 

If I fed dry i'd go for origen or arden grange, as it is I feed barf, high in protien but my dogs aren't hyperactive as there's nothing added that can do any damage.

I often wonder why people say the protien in a dogs diet makes them hyper, when i've heard many raw feeders say it's calmed their dog down. My dogs are very laid back and being Mals you'd think they would hyper with all the protien they get if this were true. Maybe it's the other ingredients that are added to commercial foods that hype them up.


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## Mum2Heidi

Exactly what Claire (Henry) said - plus if you have a [email protected] handy, Their Advance Sensitive is v good, also their Wainwrights Salmon and Potato.

As a guide if you come across any other brands, you would be better aviding as much cereal as possible. I think most wets have a bit of rice in them (from memory Wainwrights is the least), but you can avoid it totally in the drieds (some are mostly rice). No artificial colours or preservatives either. 

Possibly get some samples first if you can. [email protected] were doing a free bag 2.5k bag if you have a nutritional consultation - just be focused on what you want and push for that - they could try and recommend something different. Also, whatever you buy there, if you dog doesnt like it, they will exchange or refund no matter how much you have used.

Hope this helps a bit.


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## Lyceum

Malmum said:


> I often wonder why people say the protien in a dogs diet makes them hyper, when i've heard many raw feeders say it's calmed their dog down. My dogs are very laid back and being Mals you'd think they would hyper with all the protien they get if this were true. Maybe it's the other ingredients that are added to commercial foods that hype them up.


It's dependant on the source of the protein, the likes of hills make dogs hyper because the protein comes from fillers, like rice etc, which the dog can't digest so will convert to glucose and be fed into the bloodstream at something like 30 calories per minute. Protein from a good source like meat will be digested properly and the calories will be fed into the blood stream at a rate of about 2 per minute.

I think a good test is how much comes out the other end, anyone who feeds raw will know very. very little comes out, so it's clear as day the food is being used as it should be.


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## henry

Lyceum said:


> It's dependant on the source of the protein, the likes of hills make dogs hyper because the protein comes from fillers, like rice etc, which the dog can't digest so will convert to glucose and be fed into the bloodstream at something like 30 calories per minute. Protein from a good source like meat will be digested properly and the calories will be fed into the blood stream at a rate of about 2 per minute.
> 
> I think a good test is how much comes out the other end, anyone who feeds raw will know very. very little comes out, so it's clear as day the food is being used as it should be.


Just wondering what you're feeding now, Lyceum?


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## Lyceum

henry said:


> Just wondering what you're feeding now, Lyceum?


Bailey is on WW wet with skinners duck as a topper, soon to be robbies holistic because he absolutely loves a sample I gave him last week. So I'll mix some of that in with his WW.

Novak has had a very off stomach since Christmas, just finished his third course of antibiotics and has been on either rice and chicken (was going right through him) or egg and potato for a few months. Just started mixing WW wet into his potato instead of egg and thankfully he's still solid. If it stays that way he'll eventually be on WW wet and simpsons lamb and potato dry.


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## Angie2011

Hi guy's This is what i have so far:

Arden Grange: For Benjie 12 year old: Sensitive/Fish&Patatoe 15kg £45.61
~i was paying £17.00 for 3kg bag of Hills (Vet recommended) 

Arden Grange wet: Senior Light: x18 £15.97

Oscar 9 years with HD: Vet diet: Purina Veterinary Diets: consists of: 
Ingredients: Maze, Maize gluten meal,Soybean meal,Pea fiber,Cellulose, Dehydrated poultry protein, Wheat gluten meal, Digest, Animal fat,Calcium phosphate,Calcium carbonate,Sodium chloride,Choline chloride, minerals,Potassium chloride, EC permitted antioxidants.
Typical analysis:
Protein 29.0%, Fat 6%, Ash 7.5%, Fiber 10.0%, Calcium 1.2%, Phosphorus 1.0%, Copper (as copper sulphate) 18mg/kg Energy value 2.93Kcal/g.

Weight loss for him....in 18 months from~13.00kg to~11.40 kg give or take a little.
OMG!!!! cant believe all this crap has gone into my baby  DONT TRUST THE VETS DIET NOW!!! after pushing Hills onto me 
Not sure if this would be any good for Oscar?? what do you guy's think 
Arden Grange: Light Chicken/Rice 15kg £37.47
I would like to try and buy all from the same place 
I think 18 months is a LONG time trying to get weight off him! as the older he gets the worse his HD is progressing!  If i find out they have FOBBED me off with this diet  all i can say is BLEEP! BLEEPING! HELL to pay  Appreciate your help guys  Angie x


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## Mum2Heidi

Dont worry about the past and what you have been feeding. I am sure most of us have been there and also taken vets advice on food before realising they aren't experienced in nutrition.
BIG pat on the back for looking to change.

As you are leaning towards AG, I would give them a ring. Ness, their nutritionist is very helpful and I am sure would be able to advise you which AG products would be best suited to your doggies.

I cant choose between their Sensitive and Premium. The sensitive is brilliant as it's cereal free but potato is listed as the first ingredient so probably more potato than fish. Premium has chicken listed twice and as a first ingredient with a higher meat content but contains rice and doesnt list how much.


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## Angie2011

Mum2Heidi: Thanx Hun for the pat on the back!  i feel all warm an fuzzy inside  So i will fined the number on their site? can i ask what you think of the diet food Oscar has been on, i am wondering if my poor baby has been half starved with minimal nutrition just to get the weight off !Mmmm  Angie


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## Mum2Heidi

Hi,
You are welcome. A bit of praise never does anyone any harm 

Here are the contact details for AG
Super Premium Dog Food and Cat Food From Arden Grange
I would ask to speak to Ness.

Re the food he was on - please dont worry. There are a lot worse and they are fed it their whole lives. Look forward and not back. You are doing it now which is what counts.

I have just taken my 2 OAP cats off supermarket brand 4% meat and the rest cr*p brands. Paying less now and they are getting a much better diet - how bad do I feel:scared: I cant change the past but be thankful that they are getting better nutrition in their twilight years

Now get on that phone girl:lol:


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## dvnbiker

I tried to change our OAP cats onto a better food - they will not touch the better food so have had to keep them on the crap - sometimes it doesnt matter how hard you try.


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## Lyceum

dvnbiker said:


> I tried to change our OAP cats onto a better food - they will not touch the better food so have had to keep them on the crap - sometimes it doesnt matter how hard you try.


It took me an AGE to get my 11 year old cat to eat good food. When they're old, like people, they're set in their ways. And cats are very 'do as they please' anyway. Couldn't get them to touch raw though, no matter what I did.


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## Mum2Heidi

Lyceum said:


> It took me an AGE to get my 11 year old cat to eat good food. When they're old, like people, they're set in their ways. And cats are very 'do as they please' anyway. Couldn't get them to touch raw though, no matter what I did.


The cat forum helped me a lot when I wanted to get my old timers on better food. Hobbs suggested Debittered Brewers Yeast (from Holland&Barrett) sprinkled on their food is a good appetiser to encourage them. I didnt need it. Mine took to Bozita and Smilla from zooplus like a house on fire.


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## Lyceum

Mum2Heidi said:


> The cat forum helped me a lot when I wanted to get my old timers on better food. Hobbs suggested Debittered Brewers Yeast (from Holland&Barrett) sprinkled on their food is a good appetiser to encourage them. I didnt need it. Mine took to Bozita and Smilla from zooplus like a house on fire.


Yeah, I did the same, Bodie was much easier, but Chyna is 12 now and was much harder. I'm lucky if I get her to eat one bowl of wet a week, but I feed applaws dry (thanks to reassurances from hobbs) and bodie likes toplife and hilife. So I'm happy. They wouldn't touch anything with the yeast on.


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## Mum2Heidi

My pair are 13 and I'm really pleased they have adapted so well. They werent keen on the yeast either.


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## sarahd1978

I have just got a 7 month old ebt who was being fed beta and beta plus pedigree meat for evening meal. After reading all these posts I think I will be changing her food. But what is a good wet food to give??


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## hackertime

My experience with beta large breed puppy food was poo more poo ,wind in copious smelly amounts ! Changed to arden grange then millies wolfheart no problems less poo and less wind


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## sarahd1978

We have just got a 7 month old ebt, and she has been fed on beta plus pedigree wet food in the evening. I have just looked at the composition and am disgusted!! Full of crap!!
Am going to put her on Arden grange puppy/junior. To be honest for an extra fiver for a 12kg bag it's well worth it but as she is usednto having wet food mixed in for her evening meal I am wondering what wet food is best or to not bother with wet at all??
My mum gives her Rotty staff x chub roll mixed with his dry and does well on it. It has no cereals and is gluten free.
Any thoughts and advice welcome. Thanks in advance xx


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## SixStar

sarahd1978 said:


> We have just got a 7 month old ebt, and she has been fed on beta plus pedigree wet food in the evening. I have just looked at the composition and am disgusted!! Full of crap!!
> Am going to put her on Arden grange puppy/junior. To be honest for an extra fiver for a 12kg bag it's well worth it but as she is usednto having wet food mixed in for her evening meal I am wondering what wet food is best or to not bother with wet at all??
> My mum gives her Rotty staff x chub roll mixed with his dry and does well on it. It has no cereals and is gluten free.
> Any thoughts and advice welcome. Thanks in advance xx


Webbox chub rolls are pretty horrific. Have a look through here for wet food ideas - http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-and-nutrition/305410-updated-wet-dog-food-index.html


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## jenzig

Would really like my pup to go on arden Grange did i read correctly that the adult food is ok for a puppy to?
Thanks

Hes 11 weeks


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## Doggiedelight

my puppy is on AG puppy/junior food. Not sure about putting a puppy on adult food. Puppy food tends to have more of what a puppy needs during the first months of fast growth and development.


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## Magyarmum

jenzig said:


> Would really like my pup to go on arden Grange did i read correctly that the adult food is ok for a puppy to?
> Thanks
> 
> Hes 11 weeks


It all depends on the breed of the puppy. Shar-Pei puppies for example, because they're fully grown at one year old should be fed on adult food from 8 weeks old. My two dogs are fed home cooked and occasionally Acana Grasslands which is grain free.


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## cinnamontoast

Many adult and puppy foods have exactly the same ingredients: I spent an enlightening time in a pet shop reading labels. Puppy food is a bit of a myth and generally unnecessary.


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