# Jeremy Corbyn Re-Elected As Party Leader



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Jeremy Corbyn has been re-elected as Labour Party leader.

http://news.sky.com/story/live-labour-leadership-battle-jeremy-corbyn-v-owen-smith-10590541

*Vote Results*
Jeremy Corbyn 61.8%
Owen Smith 38.2%

Many years of Tories running the country ahead for the UK.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Fantastic news. *


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Good for Jeremy, I hope they will leave him alone and let him get on with the job the party members elected him to do. I think there will be a split now though and a new party will be formed made up of some of old Teflon Tony's brigade.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I don't understand why so many people dislike him so much.

He comes across as humble & he's a refreshing change from the preening showoff toffs that are the usual offerings.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Not sure why they bothered holding the vote, it was a no brainer! love Jezza.....


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

simplysardonic said:


> I don't understand why so many people dislike him so much.
> 
> He comes across as humble & he's a refreshing change from the preening showoff toffs that are the usual offerings.


I was listening to Andy Burnham on the news this morning and he said the public seem to be fed up with the glossy/fake politicians of recent years which I think is very true.

Jeremy did well.

Mr Corbyn won 313,209 votes, compared with Mr Smith's 193,229.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Well for those that decided to leave the Labour party he needs to stamp his authority down on the Labour MPs, sort out his front bench and make his voice heard at PMQs. In the not so distant past he was a laughing stock. If he doesn't do these things the Conservatives/Tories will walk all over him and the Labour Party.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Many years of Tories running the country ahead for the UK.


I don't know why you think this. I believe this is a real chance to shake up politics even more.
If he just tones down one or two of his more extreme views, even I would be interested in voting for him


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Well for those that decided to leave the Labour party he needs to stamp his authority down on the Labour MPs sort out his front bench and make his voice heard at PMQs. In the not so distant past he was a laughing stock. If he doesn't do these things the Conservatives/Tories will walk all over him and the Labour Party.


If they continue to do things like that then they are just showing what disgusting people they are


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rona said:


> If they continue to do things like that then they are just showing what disgusting people they are


He needs his MPs to fall in line instead of opposing him.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat said:


> He needs his MPs to fall in line instead of opposing him.


Or they need to get on with doing the work they were elected to do and be an effective opposition rather than throwing their toys out of the pram because they're not getting their own way.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

oh f8ck !


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

He needs to do something @rona to win back the support he lost. His party is in a mess and he really needs to sort that out and do something to make him electable at the next general election. Labour has a lot of work ahead to reform itself, before it is even ready to challenge the Conservatives.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> He needs to do something @rona to win back the support he lost. His party is in a mess and he really needs to sort that out and do something to make him electable at the next general election. Labour has a lot of work ahead to reform itself, before it is even ready to challenege the Conservatives.


Yes, as I said, he needs to temper his own extremist views a little and they need to listen to their own members and get behind him


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

I predict that if Labour doesn't sort itself out soon, the Conservatives will win the next General Election in less than 4 years time and we will have another 5 years of Conservative rule. Lots of Labour voters are disgusted at what has happened eg Jeremy Corbyn even got elected in the first place last year, Andy Burnham was my favourite candidate last year.

Oh well off I trot to the other side as there party seems more attractive as they are actually doing something.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

there will be a party split, but a new party wont arise, those anti corbynites will just defect to lib dems, and the lib dems will accept them with open arms, in an attempt to win back the losses they incurred, due to selling out to the tories
Much as i dont support many of his more extreme views, I do think he can be a good leader, Corbyn reminds me a lot of Harold Wilson


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rona said:


> Yes, as I said, he needs to temper his own extremist views a little and they need to listen to their own members and get behind him


Wouldn't that be conning people if he "tempered" his views Extremists never change: him and McDonald ,  . 
It's not the labour membership you have to worry about but other voters , the ones that sway the election .

The question I want to know is Will he be able to deliver what he promises?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

mrs phas said:


> Much as i dont support many of his more extreme views, I do think he can be a good leader, Corbyn reminds me a lot of Harold Wilson


 In what way ?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> Wouldn't that be conning people if he "tempered" his views Extremists never change: him and McDonald ,  .
> It's not the labour membership you have to worry about but other voters , the ones that sway the election .
> 
> The question I want to know is Will he be able to deliver what he promises?


I don't think it would con anyone, he's been very upfront in his views but he must know that for the good of the party that he has been part of for decades and to get many of his members on side he should listen to others. That's not conning, that's being democratic surely?

Of course he can't deliver it all, anyone who thinks he can is living in cloud cuckoo land, but to aspire isn't a bad thing


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> Well for those that decided to leave the Labour party he needs to stamp his authority down on the Labour MPs sort out his front bench and make his voice heard at PMQs. In the not so distant past he was a laughing stock. If he doesn't do these things the Conservatives/Tories will walk all over him and the Labour Party.


That's what worries me, he really needs to pull his socks up and get tough and he needs to ask his own questions rather than reading e-mail at PM question time.

If he doesn't get it right this time the party will just fall apart.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

kimthecat said:


> In what way ?


in sticking by his beliefs, his man of the people attitude [possibly psuedo but we cant know that for sure] softly spoken, underestimation of his intelligence and of his popularity with the voters

although I dont see JC sending, as Wilson did, troops into NI or keeping them in Suez, as hes a died in the wool pacifist


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rona said:


> I don't think it would con anyone, he's been very upfront in his views but he must know that for the good of the party that he has been part of for decades and to get many of his members on side he should listen to others. That's not conning, that's being democratic surely?
> 
> Of course he can't deliver it all, anyone who thinks he can is living in cloud cuckoo land, but to aspire isn't a bad thing


So if he cant deliver why is he saying he is ? That's misleading and hiding his true views is misleading and dishonest .

To say that someone is living in cloud cuckoo land for believing (who his supporters say is) an honest man etc , sorry but blaming someone for trusting a person ,

So we shouldnt trust him , well I never have !

As to aspiring , you think making promises you cant keep , a good thing ! Well I dont , I dont make promises I cant keep .


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> So if he cant deliver why is he saying he is ? That's misleading and hiding his true views is misleading and dishonest .


But we all know his views, he's never hidden them. If he puts a few aside for the good of his party or the country, I don't see that as dishonest, I see that as very unselfish.



kimthecat said:


> As to aspiring , you think making promises you cant keep , a good thing ! Well I dont , I dont make promises I cant keep .


Again, tempering his own aspirations for the benefit of the country can only be good. I'd admire him more if he does


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Dianne Abbot trending on Twitter , she's health secretary ? I guess her kids will have private health plans like they went to private school .

I'm over come , I'm going to need a lie down .  :Hilarious


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rona said:


> But we all know his views, he's never hidden them. If he puts a few aside for the good of his party or the country, I don't see that as dishonest, I see that as very unselfish.
> Again, tempering his own aspirations for the benefit of the country can only be good. I'd admire him more if he does


That's a good ploy . If , (and I hope to God he's not , ever elected) , he and his cronies will just revert and inflict his views on the country . Clever!


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

Good on him. Hope he can sort out his party for a labour win at the next election.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Jerrys off to a good start




  *Gerry Adams Verified account * ‏@*GerryAdamsSF*  33m33 minutes ago
Congratulations to *Jeremy Corbyn* http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/41670

*Larry the Cat* ‏@*Number10cat*  2h2 hours ago

BREAKING: Theresa May reacts to *Jeremy Corbyn*'s reelection as Labour leader #*Lab16*




:Hilarious


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I've nothing against him really he's a nice man, but he has the personality of a lettuce not what you want in a PM


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Happy Paws said:


> I've nothing against him really he's a nice man, but he has the personality of a lettuce not what you want in a PM


Really? why do you say that? I'm not a labour voter but I like him and respect him far more than Blair or Milliband. They came across as slick and fake and Blair in particular out for himself not the country whereas JC does seem genuine and people warm to him. Politics isn't just about putting on a good show in the house its also about engaging with real people and working to achieve the best for them.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

not unexpected, was obvious he would win despite the purges and smear campaigns. Dissapointed to hear him say "time for a clean slate".... He needs to have the strength now to sack the tory-lite plotters or they will just regroup and come for him again and again and again.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

porps said:


> not unexpected, was obvious he would win despite the purges and smear campaigns. Dissapointed to hear him say "time for a clean slate".... He needs to have the strength now to sack the tory-lite plotters or they will just regroup and come for him again and again and again.


I haven't listened to his speech yet but could he have meant by clean slate getting rid of the plotters?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Happy Paws said:


> I've nothing against him really he's a nice man, but he has the personality of a lettuce


I'm not so sure he doesn't know exactly what's been going on. Whether he approves or is just happy to be a figurehead I don't know.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Deleted try again later


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

As long as The Sun backs the Tories the Labour Party may never win. It doesn't matter if Corbyn or whoever is leader. They spoke negatively about the other candidates.

I hope the party put this behind them and work towards an effective opposition. If some party members don't like it I'm sure the Liberal Democrats will welcome them.

May I wish Mr Corbyn good luck.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Really? why do you say that? I'm not a labour voter but I like him and respect him far more than Blair or Milliband. They came across as slick and fake and Blair in particular out for himself not the country whereas JC does seem genuine and people warm to him. Politics isn't just about putting on a good show in the house its also about engaging with real people and working to achieve the best for them.


I agree, he does a genuine and warm man, but is that enough to win an election and be a Prime Minster, unfortunately I don't think it is.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> I've nothing against him really he's a nice man, but he has the personality of a lettuce not what you want in a PM


That's really unfair comparing lettuce to corbyn. . Lettuce are very interesting ; look at all the different.varieties there are . :Hilarious


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> That's really unfair comparing lettuce to corbyn. . Lettuce are very interesting ; look at all the different.varieties there are . :Hilarious


:Hilarious


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I would like to make an apologize to all lettuces, I didn't intend any offence. `


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

I personally have had enough personality in politicians to last me a life time. I would rather have character, integrity and capability. And I don't give a toss what they look like, or whether they can eat a hamburger in public, or have the wittiest scriptwiter for PMQ. I am not voting for the X factor. 

It was made very clear at the last election that the majority of the English electorate are one of the many varieties of conservative available, and that anything like a liberal value does not cut it at the ballot box. So Labour won't be electable until something happens to change their minds. The old PLP, and all the MPs who resigned their cabinet posts were not electable - they lost the general election and they have just lost the leadership election because they don't want to change which means they will stay unelectable, and I would quite like them to push off in to the centre somewhere and let the Labour membership vote be heard.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

What have these three guys got in common?


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Trump looks like Buggs Bunny.  Sorry Buggs


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Happy Paws said:


> Trump looks like Buggs Bunny.  Sorry Buggs


You cracked me up laughing 
:Hilarious:Hilarious


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

KittenKong said:


> As long as The Sun backs the Tories the Labour Party may never win.


People have much more choice in a modern world and choose their media 'news' source to reinforce their own prejudices.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

stockwellcat said:


> What have these three guys got in common?
> View attachment 284761
> 
> View attachment 284762
> ...


That's they will never get into power? Or is that "hope" that they don't.....


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

havoc said:


> People have much more choice in a modern world and choose their media 'news' source to reinforce their own prejudices.


Oddly, I normally try and read or listen to the opposite views to mine to see if I can be persuaded to change my opinion. 
I don't need to be ego soothed


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

havoc said:


> People have much more choice in a modern world and choose their media 'news' source to reinforce their own prejudices.


I agree to a point but being the UK's best selling paper they are highly influential to many of their readers.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

KittenKong said:


> I agree to a point but being the UK's best selling paper they are highly influential to many of their readers.


Everybody was born with one, everyone should use it instead of being influenced by anything anyone has to say or what we read. Seriously your telling us people can't think for themselves nowadays and use there brain and research things before voting for something? More fool you for believing newspapers etc. I research the facts before voting on anything, people might not agree with the way I vote but I most certainly do not let anyone or the media influence me when making my decisions.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

rona said:


> Oddly, I normally try and read or listen to the opposite views to mine


Making my point about choice quite nicely


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> Everybody was born with one, everyone should use it instead of being influenced by anything anyone has to say or what we read. Seriously your telling us people can't think for themselves nowadays and use there brain and research things before voting for something? More fool you for believing newspapers etc. I research the facts before voting on anything, people might not agree with the way I vote but I most certainly do not let anyone or the media influence me when making my decisions.


I'm certainly not influenced by what I see in that paper or any other for that matter! Nor did I intend to suggest people here do too.

Some do take as gospel what they read in the press however. I would love to be proven wrong but from past experience many do seem influenced in what they write and agree with it. In Corbyn's case they appear to hate him, hardly a day goes by where they don't condemn him in one form or another.

It certainly wasn't my intention to suggest people here believe in what the press say, this thread alone is strong evidence of that.

I apologise for any misunderstanding and if this was the impression I gave.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I haven't listened to his speech yet but could he have meant by clean slate getting rid of the plotters?


not the impression i got but we can hope.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

stockwellcat said:


> Many years of Tories running the country ahead for the UK.





JANICE199 said:


> *Fantastic news. *


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

@Satori I was waiting to see if anyone saw the comment above at the bottom of my first post  and @JANICE199 reply 

Long live the Tory party, for now we have a one nation party as Labour is a very weak opposition.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

I can imagine Theresa May's reaction yesterday when she heard Jeremy Corbyn got re-elected:




























I guess she's going to have fun with him in PMQ's every Wednesday.


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Hmmm... I don't know. Not many party leaders would survive the negatively towards him from the media and even several from his own party. Despite the attempts to get him to quit he held out and became victorious in the leadership challenge. He must be a lot stronger than many make him out to be.

In the meantime the Tories continue to squabble over how to exercise Brexit and now with Grammar schools.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

rona said:


> Oddly, I normally try and read or listen to the opposite views to mine to see if I can be persuaded to change my opinion.
> I don't need to be ego soothed


I had a very interesting sociopolitical discussion with a student at work the other day, he considers himself 'right wing', I am & always have been a loony left Green Party supporter, a very astute & likeable lad, although we both agreed that Britain First & their supporters were absolutely ridiculous.

I enjoy hearing both sides of an argument (the Libra in me I suppose, although that in itself would potentially cause a debate about superstition & science ), but I do like to see hard data presented to support it, & I have sometimes been swayed by a properly thought out perspective different to my own.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> I can imagine Theresa May's reaction yesterday when she heard Jeremy Corbyn got re-elected:
> 
> I guess she's going to have fun with him in PMQ's every Wednesday.


Lets hope we see another side of him and lets see the real leader he needs to be. But I'm not holding my breath.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Happy Paws said:


> Lets hope we see another side of him and lets see the real leader he needs to be. But I'm not holding my breath.


There's every chance he'll be confident enough now to show exactly the 'real' leader he is and whether he intends to lead a left wing Labour party or turn it completely into the Momentum party.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

KittenKong said:


> Hmmm... I don't know. Not many party leaders would survive the negatively towards him from the media and even several from his own party. Despite the attempts to get him to quit he held out and became victorious in the leadership challenge. He must be a lot stronger than many make him out to be.
> 
> In the meantime the Tories continue to squabble over how to exercise Brexit and now with Grammar schools.


Well let's hope for Jeremy's sake Theresa doesn't call an early General Election as that could paralyse the Labour party for years to come as the Tories have most backing at the moment, or the Labour party splits as his MPs don't have any confidence in him as they voted no confidence against him. He doesn't even have a complete front bench shadow Government/Cabinet.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> I had a very interesting sociopolitical discussion with a student at work the other day, he considers himself 'right wing', I am & always have been a loony left Green Party supporter, a very astute & likeable lad, although we both agreed that Britain First & their supporters were absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> I enjoy hearing both sides of an argument (the Libra in me I suppose, although that in itself would potentially cause a debate about superstition & science ), but I do like to see hard data presented to support it, & I have sometimes been swayed by a properly thought out perspective different to my own.


It's the only way to continue to grow as a person. I grew up in a very prejudiced bigoted time and have softened greatly over the years in many of my views. What worries me is the complete turn to liberalism, welfarism and the conviction by so many that they are right and can inflict their views on others no matter that it may just be based on opinion and not facts.

I have some really off beat opinions based on seeing both sides and not jumping in with the crowd. I sometimes even argue a point that I don't wholeheartedly agree with to try and get a clearer understanding.

I've been a Conservative supporter in the very loosest terms since the mid 1970s. My father would turn in his grave at me saying that. 
Jeremy is the first Labour MP since then that has even tempted me to go back to my roots. I don't agree with all his visions and as things stand at present I wouldn't want him as PM, but he doesn't have to change very much to get my support


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> Well let's hope for Jeremy's sake Theresa doesn't call an early General Election as that could paralyse the Labour party for years to come as the Tories have most backing at the moment, or the Labour party splits as his MPs don't have any confidence in him as they voted no confidence against him. He doesn't even have a complete front bench shadow Government/Cabinet.


You're probably right but it's looking quite optimistic so far as regards to the Labour Party uniting behind their leader, even from his main challenger Owen Smith who has graciously accepted the outcome.

Those party members who remain unhappy can always join the Liberal Democrats or set up their own party. If they continue to bicker the party will be better off without them. I'm sure Jeremy will now have no problems in forming a shadow cabinet in no time.


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

I don't take much interest in politics but I have to say I quite like Corbyn. He seems a decent, principled fella (pretty rare for a politician)
I'm not sure he's party leader material though, never mind prime minister!
If he can stop all the infighting & squabbling in the Labour party then we might see a credible opposition but I have my doubts.


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## 2Hounds (Jun 24, 2009)

I respected Corbyn for not quitting & glad he's been rewarded for sticking it out and not bowing to pressure, seems like everyone just resigns when the going gets tough these days.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

BlackadderUK said:


> I don't take much interest in politics but I have to say I quite like Corbyn. He seems a decent, principled fella (pretty rare for a politician)
> *I'm not sure he's party leader material though, never mind prime minister!
> If he can stop all the infighting & squabbling in the Labour party then we might see a credible opposition but I have my doubts.*


I couldn't agree more, been nice and likeable isn't enough by run a party or country.


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

2Hounds said:


> I respected Corbyn for not quitting & glad he's been rewarded for sticking it out and not bowing to pressure, seems like everyone just resigns when the going gets tough these days.


I couldn't agree more. Seems Kinnock started the trend when he lost in 1992. Wilson didn't resign after losing in 1970, nor did Heath in 1974.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Labour Supporters In Greater Manchester Take To Social Media To Say They Are Leaving Labour in light of Jeremy Corbyn getting re-elected:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...s/corbyn-labour-win-party-membership-11934911


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## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

stockwellcat said:


> Labour Supporters In Greater Manchester Take To Social Media To Say They Are Leaving Labour in light of Jeremy Corbyn getting re-elected:
> 
> http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/corbyn-labour-win-party-membership-11934911


I don't know who is eligible to vote in a leader contest but enough voted for him to gain an overwhelming majority. I don't see the point in throwing toys out of the pram, surely it's now time to back him (like him or not) for the sake of the party/country? From what I know he's never had the backing he should & that can't help him in his role.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Blackadder I see your point but I find it scary that those who voted for seem to think he is a Messiah , the adoration is creepy .
Rona said "Of course he can't deliver it all, anyone who thinks he can is living in cloud cuckoo land, " then I think that includes most of the Labour members who voted for him.

Momentum for kids , does anyone else find this worrying ?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...-education-creche_uk_57def98be4b05d79137004ab

"Momentum Kids", as it will be known, will use the left-wing movement's network of 150 local groups to help youngsters who want to get involved in politics.

It is expected the new grouping will help children who want to become activists to attend marches, learn how to use offline and online campaign techniques and discuss key policy issues."

Hitlers youth movement , Putin's patriotic Youth camp , eek !


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> @Blackadder I see your point but I find it scary that those who voted for seem to think he is a Messiah , the adoration is creepy .
> Rona said "Of course he can't deliver it all, anyone who thinks he can is living in cloud cuckoo land, " then I think that includes most of the Labour members who voted for him.
> 
> Momentum for kids , does anyone else find this worrying ?
> ...


That is scary.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> @Blackadder I see your point but I find it scary that those who voted for seem to think he is a Messiah , the adoration is creepy .
> Rona said "Of course he can't deliver it all, anyone who thinks he can is living in cloud cuckoo land, " then I think that includes most of the Labour members who voted for him.
> 
> Momentum for kids , does anyone else find this worrying ?
> ...


I find everything about Monentum worrying and am shocked that the leader of the party aligns himself with those people


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Labour Supporters In Greater Manchester Take To Social Media To Say They Are Leaving Labour in light of Jeremy Corbyn getting re-elected:
> 
> http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...s/corbyn-labour-win-party-membership-11934911


Better to lose the tory-lite 38% than the socialist 62% who allowed him to gain another easy victory (actually more than that when you consider the ridiculous purging of voters done by the fearful right wingers). good riddance to the blairite scum.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

porps said:


> Better to lose the tory-lite 38% than the socialist 62% who allowed him to gain another easy victory (actually more than that when you consider the ridiculous purging of voters done by the fearful right wingers). good riddance to the blairite scum.


Oh dear I see the party splitting not long from now.

The percentages I saw on the news this morning where:
49% Tory Backing,
29% Labour backing,

So that blows Labour out of being elected in any General Election in the near future.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> The Labour Party isn't a socialist party. Oh dear I see the party splitting not ling from now. The percentages I saw this morning where 49% Tory Backing 29% Labour backing so that blows Labour out of being elected in the next General Election.


An awful lot of those who voted for him are Tories who know that Labour in unelectable with him and his radical left wing policies in charge


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> Labour Supporters In Greater Manchester Take To Social Media To Say They Are Leaving Labour in light of Jeremy Corbyn getting re-elected:
> 
> http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...s/corbyn-labour-win-party-membership-11934911


I thought you'd like this


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat said:


> Oh dear I see the party splitting not long from now.
> 
> The percentages I saw on the news this morning where:
> 49% Tory Backing,
> ...


Surely its far too early to say, anything can happen between now and the next election that could cause a massive swing to labour. Hell I might even be tempted to the dark side myself :Shy


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> An awful lot of those who voted for him are Tories who know that Labour in unelectable with him and his radical left wing policies in charge


If you beleive everything you read in the mainstream press perhaps..

It's besides the point anyway... rather a supposedly unelectable alternative than have 2 electable tory parties.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> Oh dear I see the party splitting not long from now.
> 
> The percentages I saw on the news this morning where:
> 49% Tory Backing,
> ...


On the right wing owned news? Please excuse me if i fail to give a crap about right wing propaganda.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

porps said:


> If you beleive everything you read in the mainstream press perhaps..
> 
> It's besides the point anyway... rather a supposedly unelectable alternative than have 2 electable tory parties.


 I guess time will tell about a "supposedly" unelectable alternative.

Why is anyone who isn't a Corbynite accused of being a Blairite? Marxist vs Tory .

Is there no middle ground?


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

porps said:


> rather a supposedly unelectable alternative than have 2 electable tory parties


I don't see the point in that - where's the sense in being a deliberately unelectable party? I have a lot of time for some of JC's stated views but I am getting a bit of an 'Animal Farm' feeling about what's been going on.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

havoc said:


> I don't see the point in that - where's the sense in being a deliberately unelectable party? I have a lot of time for some of JC's stated views but I am getting a bit of an 'Animal Farm' feeling about what's been going on.


But you do see the point in having elections or voting at all if both parties are the same? I certainly dont.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> I guess time will tell about a "supposedly" unelectable alternative.
> 
> Why is anyone who isn't a Corbynite accused of being a Blairite? Marxist vs Tory .
> 
> Is there no middle ground?


because the labour party is supposed to be a socialist party but the moment a socialist leader gets in ppl start whining, because it could potentially threaten the single party system which we've had since blair. If you dont want to move away from single party politics, you are a blairite. simple.The right controlled press might be saying corbyn is unelectable but the truth is if they werent scared of him they wouldnt be spending so much time on trying to destroy him. But if you get your info from them then of course you will be against him.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

porps said:


> because the labour party is supposed to be a socialist party but the moment a socialist leader gets in ppl start whining, because it could potentially threaten the single party system which we've had since blair. If you dont want to move away from single party politics, you are a blairite. simple.The right controlled press might be saying corbyn is unelectable but the truth is if they werent scared of him they wouldnt be spending so much time on trying to destroy him. But if you get your info from them then of course you will be against him.


Or alternatively they see him as weak and a bit of a joke


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Well Corbyn done it. He has been nick named the Corbynator because he wants to take the Labour party back to the 1970's and 1980's with his policies.


----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I have Marxists with passion. I hate chauvinists with equal passion.
No extreme is good.

Corbyn is very well suited for Trade Union or Greanpeace etc.. As a leader.

Britain needs centre party. We had once very popular " Friends of Beer"...
Maybe UK.can have Friends of Pf Party?

Pet Owners United?


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> Or alternatively they see him as weak and a bit of a joke


He may be seen as a bit of a joke, but weak? I can't see how anyone could see him as weak


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

porps said:


> But you do see the point in having elections or voting at all if both parties are the same?


I don't think they are the same and I don't want them to be the same.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

rona said:


> He may be seen as a bit of a joke, but weak? I can't see how anyone could see him as weak


Have you seen him at PMQs?


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> Have you seen him at PMQs?


Yes I have, Theresa May just ripped into him.
Just a reminder for everyone :


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

havoc said:


> I don't think they are the same and I don't want them to be the same.


you just want them to be almost the same? Like the difference between this and this. Cos thats how it is currently. Me? i would prefer if one party at least would represent this. Altho, ofc, the ideal for me would be *THIS*.

Dont worry, if the propaganda in the mainstream media is to believed then the prey on the weak status quo that goes hand in hand with right wing politics isnt under pressure any time soon. but for those of us who dont like that kind of system, it's nice to see, for ONCE, someone in politics who actually appears to be as against it as we are.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> Have you seen him at PMQs?


Just because he sticks to the point and doesn't use smart arse quips, doesn't make him weak. You only have to look at what he's been facing with the press and even his own party to realise his metal


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

rona said:


> Just because he sticks to the point and doesn't use smart arse quips, doesn't make him weak. You only have to look at what he's been facing with the press and even his own party to realise his metal


If he can't handle PMQs, how on earth would he ever handle someone like Trump if (God forbid) he ever got into power? It's all very well having lovely socialist ideals, but if you're incapable of fighting your corner, what good are you to the country? Every single negotiation with a foreign power is each side wanting to come out with their pound of flesh


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Am I reading this correctly?
My interpretation is there isn't going to be any change on Corbyn's front bench until after November 22nd?


> The re-elected Labour Leader had been urged by MPs to restore shadow cabinet elections as an olive branch after a bitter leadership campaign.
> 
> However, with a reshuffle imminently expected, Labour's ruling National Executive Committee has put off a decision on the change until an "awayday" on 22 November. This would be followed by a consultation process before the reforms receive final approval at a special conference.


Who is left on the front bench?

If I remember correctly they all left in rebellion against him bar a few MP's loyal to him.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> Am I reading this correctly?
> My interpretation is there isn't going to be any change on Corbyn's front bench until after November 22nd?
> 
> Who is left on the front bench?
> ...


And this is what I mean by weak. Surely he should have had the list ready, and as soon as he won he should have set it in motion. So yet again it feels like they're rudderless


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> And this is what I mean by weak. Surely he should have had the list ready, and as soon as he won he should have set it in motion. So yet again it feels like they're rudderless


I agree with you.

But reading the extract from the news source I found this on, it might be the new year before he has a new front bench, as there has to be a consultation process before final approval is given.

Theresa May is going to have fun with him at PMQs and I will be tuning in to watch PMQs every Wednesday it is on.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> I agree with you.
> 
> But reading the extract from the news source I found this on, it might be the new year before he has a new front bench, as there has to be a consultation process before final approval is given.
> 
> Theresa May is going to have fun with him at PMQs.


But how does it take so long? May swooped straight in and reshuffled straight away


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> But how does it take so long? May swooped straight in and reshuffled straight away


I don't know why it is taking so long? Perhaps he is trying to find out who he can trust to not revolt against him.

That is what I admire about Theresa May, she just went straight to work and formed her Government.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

MiffyMoo said:


> Have you seen him at PMQs?





stockwellcat said:


> Yes I have, Theresa May just ripped into him.
> Just a reminder for everyone :


Surely there is room for all types of leaders, they don't all have to be rabble rousers or slick debaters, personally I'm fed up to the back teeth with those who show off and talk the talk but run for the hills when they don't get their own way. If you have the right support team/cabinet then send some one else to negotiate with Trump or Putin. I think it is possible to lead and gain respect without shouting the loudest or playing verbal chess. Just tell us the truth with no BS and it will be such a refreshing change. Even my OH who is a true blue Tory was impressed with JC sticking it out and not giving in to pressure from his MP's .


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Surely there is room for all types of leaders, they don't all have to be rabble rousers or slick debaters, personally I'm fed up to the back teeth with those who show off and talk the talk but run for the hills when they don't get their own way. *If you have the right support team/cabinet* then send some one else to negotiate with Trump or Putin. I think it is possible to lead and gain respect without shouting the loudest or playing verbal chess. Just tell us the truth with no BS and it will be such a refreshing change. Even my OH who is a true blue Tory was impressed with JC sticking it out and not giving in to pressure from his MP's .


But the problem there is his own MPs couped against him by showing him they had no confidence in him. So who would be the right team/cabinet as they wanted him out. It was the Labour lefty voters that voted him back in again not the MPs.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat said:


> But the problem there his is his own MPs couped against him by showing him they had no confidence in him. So who would be the right team/cabinet as they wanted him out. It was the Labour lefty voters that voted him back in again not the MPs.


So now he has won the leadership race for the second time in a year he should be given time to build his shadow cabinet with people he trusts and who have faith in him. Perhaps some of the previous dissenters will return if he will have them and perhaps other new people who share his opinions will be given a chance. However I really do think the ones who don't want to work with him should leave and set up their own party or join the Liberals and let him get on with the job.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So now he has won the leadership race for the second time in a year he should be given time to build his shadow cabinet with people he trusts and who have faith in him. Perhaps some of the previous dissenters will return if he will have them and perhaps other new people who share his opinions will be given a chance. However I really do think the ones who don't want to work with him should leave and set up their own party or join the Liberals and let him get on with the job.


I will sit back and watch May rip into him at PMQs and see who actually wants to work with him or see who is left he can trust after the majority voted no confidence in him.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

stockwellcat said:


> I will sit back and watch May rip into him at PMQs and see who actually wants to work with him or see who is left he can trust after the majority voted no confidence in him.


Well I guess he can trust the party members who voted for him and not give a monkeys about the MPs who don't want to work with him. They will after all have to face their constituents and hope to be re elected by them. If they're not careful they may find themselves doing an Ed Balls and resorting to reality TV work in the not too distant future


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> So now he has won the leadership race for the second time in a year he should be given time to build his shadow cabinet with people he trusts and who have faith in him. Perhaps some of the previous dissenters will return if he will have them and perhaps other new people who share his opinions will be given a chance. However I really do think the ones who don't want to work with him should leave and set up their own party or join the Liberals and let him get on with the job.


Shouldn't the shadow cabinet be made up of the best people for the job?


----------



## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> If he can't handle PMQs, how on earth would he ever handle someone like Trump if (God forbid) he ever got into power? It's all very well having lovely socialist ideals, but if you're incapable of fighting your corner, what good are you to the country? Every single negotiation with a foreign power is each side wanting to come out with their pound of flesh


I'd rather get rid of PMQ's - honestly, it's like being back in the primary school playground. Most pointless half an hour in politics, yet the only part most MPs seem to bother turning up for...

Of course, it's not at all surprising that people will judge a leader based on how well they can act like a cross between a stand up comedian and the school bully. Sad though it is, it does seem to be a historical precedent. I think the great Sir Pterry nailed it in Interesting Times, personally:

"Yes, whenever you comes across a king where everyone says, 'Oo, he was a good king all right,' you can bet your sandals he was a great big bearded bastard who broke heads a lot and laughed about it. Hey? But some king who just passed decent little laws and read books and tried to look intelligent . . . 'Oh,' they say, 'oh, he was all right, a bit wet, not what I'd call a proper king.' That's people for you."


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> But the problem there his is his own MPs couped against him by showing him they had no confidence in him. So who would be the right team/cabinet as they wanted him out. It was the Labour lefty voters that voted him back in again not the MPs.


So who is it that runs a party but it's members? If that's not the case then that party is corrupt.

MPs would do well to take note of what has happened this year, The people are starting to take back power
A lot of them are only there because there was no real choice.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

This is not a party I like:

Today at Labour Conference

9:46am: Corbyn tells Jewish peer who quit Labour over anti-Semitism to “reflect“.

9:56am: Corbyn says he backs war crimes investigations into British troops.

10:00am: Corbyn says he opposes giving more resources to MI6.

10:22am: McDonnell defends calling Esther McVey “a stain on humanity”.

10:40am: Yvette Cooper tells McDonnell to apologise.

11:06am: McDonnell doubles down, says “yes I do” think they were the right words.

11:15pm: Derek Hatton spotted in the conference hall.

11:52am: Ken Livingstone talks about Hitler on the BBC.

1:42am: Delegate rants about “Jewish MPs” and “Jewish plot to oust Corbyn”.

1:50pm: Fringe speaker compares Tory welfare policy to Nazis’ Arbeit Macht Frei.

5:00pm: Momentum host speaker who called for a Jewish man’s throat to be cut.

5:25pm: Anti-war merchandise mocking injured British soldiers on sale.

6:00pm: Jackie Walker says anti-Semitism in Labour is “exaggerated“.

6:30pm: Leaflets circulated: “Jewish Labour Movement does not belong in Labour”.


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> This is not a party I like:
> 
> Today at Labour Conference
> 
> ...


I was just about to mention this.

I certainly wouldn't back this party.

They call this people taking back power. I think not.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> This is not a party I like:
> 
> Today at Labour Conference
> 
> ...


And whose round up of the "facts" are they?


----------



## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)




----------



## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

MiffyMoo said:


> This is not a party I like:
> 
> Today at Labour Conference
> 
> ...


Not popular with right right, not popular with left left...
They should form centre centre party themselves , win the election and we will have next Disraeli.

Actually David Miliband would do nicely....


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

porps said:


> because the labour party is supposed to be a socialist party but the moment a socialist leader gets in ppl start whining, because it could potentially threaten the single party system which we've had since blair. If you dont want to move away from single party politics, you are a blairite. simple.The right controlled press might be saying corbyn is unelectable but the truth is if they werent scared of him they wouldnt be spending so much time on trying to destroy him. But if you get your info from them then of course you will be against him.


I think its a cop out to blame the press for all of Corbyn's woes. Seriously.

How does the Labour party describe itself?

*How the Labour Party began*
The Labour Party was created in 1900: a new party for a new century. Its formation was the result of many years of hard effort by working people, trade unionists and socialists, united by the goal of changing the British Parliament to represent the interests of everybody.
http://www.labour.org.uk/pages/history-of-the-labour-party

I don't see why that can't be achieved with another leader less extreme than Corbyn .

Perhaps its an age thing but on my estate , the people I've grown up with , the ones that worked in apprenticeships etc and union members at sometime or another , they don't think much of him . My dad who worked on the railways and rode a bike until he died , he would have called him a commie .

I don't know who I will vote for at the next election , if Corbyn is still leader then I wont vote Labour . perhaps for the first time in my life I wont vote at all unless labour split.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> Shouldn't the shadow cabinet be made up of the best people for the job?


Agreed, but the best make themselves not the best if they can't work together. The best is then those that will work together to get things done


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

stockwellcat said:


> I don't know why it is taking so long? Perhaps he is trying to find out who he can trust to not revolt against him.
> 
> That is what I admire about Theresa May, she just went straight to work and formed her Government.


 I must admit she has handled an extemely difficult situation very well , shes on the world stage and is holding her own .


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

MiffyMoo said:


> Shouldn't the shadow cabinet be made up of the best people for the job?


Depends what you mean by the best people for the job. You could argue the best would be those who served as cabinet ministers under Blair/Brown as they have experience but they are not popular with the membership anymore as they are associated with Blair so the next best would be others with appropriate experience but they have proved to be disloyal and threw their toys out of the pram when they didn't get their own way so in this case I would argue the best are those committed to the job and prepared to put personalities aside and get on with the job in hand which is not about egos but about being an effective opposition.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> I think its a cop out to blame the press for all of Corbyn's woes. Seriously.
> /QUOTE]


at no point did i blame the press for "ALL of Corbyns woes". Seriously. Clearly the tory-lites within the labour party have played a part too.

It comes down to this - Better to stick to what is right and lose, than be a second tory party just to win. Thats how i feel. 
If you want tories in charge just vote tory. For once it's, nice to actually have a meaningful choice. You may not vote for the first time but on the other hand i and i'm sure many others may vote for the first time because it's the first time theres been any reason to.


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Porps. Are you saying you have never voted?

you don't say much about yourself. I don't what age group you are or your back ground.

I admire your principle

"- Better to stick to what is right and lose, than be a second tory party just to win. That's how i feel. "

But your principle isn't going to help anyone in real life who would be better off under a "Tory " Labour government than a Tory government.

If the Tories are voted in again , that is more suffering for sick, disabled and jobless people because of the extreme left wing Idealism .


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

rona said:


> And whose round up of the "facts" are they?


That's from Order Order. Are you saying it didn't happen?


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> That's from Order Order. Are you saying it didn't happen?


As I thought 
What I'm saying is it's rather a simplistic round up of the truth


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> But your principle isn't going to help anyone in real life who would be better off under a "Tory " Labour government than a Tory government.
> 
> If the Tories are voted in again , that is more suffering for sick, disabled and jobless people because of the extreme left wing Idealism


But then again, vote labour/tory and cripple the country where everyone suffers in the end ...........no choice, there's been no choice. 
UKIP were too racist, the Greens off with the fairies and as for the libdems pfft!!


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

rona said:


> As I thought
> What I'm saying is it's rather a simplistic round up of the truth


It may be simplistic and selective, however, any decent and reasonable person would be concerned. Surely even the most staunch Labour supporters would be concerned. It may not be the main thrust of conference but it's no less dangerous for that. This is where leadership is needed and Corbyn needs to start showing some backbone over things like an openly anti semitic fringe.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

havoc said:


> It may be simplistic and selective, however, any decent and reasonable person would be concerned. Surely even the most staunch Labour supporters would be concerned. It may not be the main thrust of conference but it's no less dangerous for that. This is where leadership is needed and Corbyn needs to start showing some backbone over things like an openly anti semitic fringe.


I agree 

He does need to change a few things to make him electable. It's what I've always said 

At the moment he's far to wishy washy and radical. Odd that, two things that should never in reality go together.
Mmmm is this my light bulb moment that he isn't as honest as he says?


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

He's had his position confirmed and should feel empowered to lead his party properly. Now we wait to see if the lack of action which led to a vote of no confidence was because didn't feel confident enough to deal with problems or because he supports such views. I'm honestly not sure which way it will go.


----------



## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

I believe the vote of no confidence resulted mainly for the Brexit result. I don't think Cameron would've lasted long without a vote of no confidence had he insisted on staying on as PM.

As it is May may at some point find herself vulnerable with the Tories split over how to exercise Brexit. The Tory conference will be interesting indeed!

May did indeed form her cabinet quickly but can be argued she made some very poor choices in some areas. 

Kimthecat (#114) raises a good point. After 18 years of Tory rule I welcomed Tony Blair's government. To this day I still rate him as an excellent PM.

As a " centre left moderate " I did have my doubts about Corbyn, but seeing he's fought off constant bad publicity from the right wing press and from some members of his own party and is victorious in a leadership challenge he has my full respect and support.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

rona said:


> As I thought
> What I'm saying is it's rather a simplistic round up of the truth


As you said, the truth. It may be simplistic, but it was rather effective


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

havoc said:


> He's had his position confirmed and should feel empowered to lead his party properly. Now we wait to see if the lack of action which led to a vote of no confidence was because didn't feel confident enough to deal with problems or because he supports such views. I'm honestly not sure which way it will go.


He had the full party backing last time, so where would the lack of confidence come from? It was only once he started floundering that he lost everyone; so the assumption would be, he is just not a natural leader. That is in no way derogatory, everyone has their strengths, and I'm sure we all know people who have been super at their jobs, been promoted and totally lost it.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> As you said, the truth. It may be simplistic, but it was rather effective


The truth is very easily twisted or edited to look like something else.
I know this so well as we have some experts at that on here


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

KittenKong said:


> I believe the vote of no confidence resulted mainly for the Brexit result.





MiffyMoo said:


> He had the full party backing last time, so where would the lack of confidence come from?


The timing and the reasons for it are two very different things.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

rona said:


> The truth is very easily twisted or edited to look like something else.
> I know this so well as we have some experts at that on here


Indeed, but I noted that some parts of it were in the Metro this morning. Haven't had a chance to look at any of the broadsheets yet


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

The one that bothers me and I think Corbyn should distance himself from ASAP is that McDonnell person.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

rona said:


> The one that bothers me and I think Corbyn should distance himself from ASAP is that McDonnell person.


I would say Momentum as well


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> I would say Momentum as well


Well yes, this is why he's unelectable, his ideas and views are just too extreme. It's nothing to do with him being weak


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

rona said:


> I agree
> 
> He does need to change a few things to make him electable. It's what I've always said
> 
> ...


I think he is likely as honest as he is portrayed. This is why he took that stance against Trident, knowing that it would be political suicide. Even though he is a bit of an 'auld nut-job, one has to admire him for his honesty if nothing else. This is also why he couldn't bring himself to campaign fervently for 'remain', because his heart wasn't in it. Sadly, it is also why he can never take a firm stance in opposition of anti-semitism in his party.


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

Satori said:


> I think he is likely as honest as he is portrayed. This is why he took that stance against Trident, knowing that it would be political suicide. Even though he is a bit of an 'auld nut-job, one has to admire him for his honesty if nothing else. *This is also why he couldn't bring himself to campaign fervently for 'remain', because his heart wasn't in it*. Sadly, it is also why he can never take a firm stance in opposition of anti-semitism in his party.


Surely he should have campaigned for leave then


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> Surely he should have campaigned for leave then


Maybe he was a don't know


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Satori said:


> Sadly, it is also why he can never take a firm stance in opposition of anti-semitism in his party.


Or the claims of sexism, bullying etc. It isn't OK to dismiss such claims as the rantings of a right wing press and presume that will stop any scrutiny and criticism. IF he is against such things he needs to say so and stand up to anyone who thinks it's OK. He does his party no favours by keeping a low profile on such matters.


----------



## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

MiffyMoo said:


> Surely he should have campaigned for leave then


He told Andrew Marr he was a 7 out of 10 for remain. Probably true at the time of saying it


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

John McDonnell speech today . he will say basically - labour will be an interventionist government working with the private sector . UK would Borrow in the short term for long term investment and this would trigger investment from the private sector and ultimately higher tax returns .

So he going to borrow a shed load of money and saddle us with massive debts and we will have to pay massive amounts of interest to whoever will lend us money .
Will any one lend us the money . Look what we owe,

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/
*Tejvan Pettinger* June 23, 2016 uk economy

The UK national debt is the total amount of money the British government owes to the private sector and other purchasers of UK gilts.


In July 2016, Public sector net debt (ex. public sector banks) was* £1,620 billion, *equivalent to* 84%*

*Budget deficit - annual borrowing*
*
This is the amount the government has to borrow per year.

*


*

In 2013/14 net borrowing is forecast at £98.5bn or 5.7% of GDP (excluding public banks)

In 2014-15 net borrowing is forecast at £88 billion (4.9% of GDP)

In 2015-16 net borrowing was £74.9 billion.
*


----------



## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> John McDonnell speech today . he will say basically - labour will be an interventionist government working with the private sector . UK would Borrow in the short term for long term investment and this would trigger investment from the private sector and ultimately higher tax returns .
> 
> So he going to borrow a lshed oad of money and saddle us with massive debts and we will have to pay massive amounts of interest to whoever will lend us money .
> Will any one lend us the money . Look what we owe,
> ...


So no change from typical Labour policy then


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> Porps. Are you saying you have never voted?
> 
> you don't say much about yourself. I don't what age group you are or your back ground.
> 
> ...


No, there's never been anyone worth voting for.

Yes if the tories get voted in again theres more suffering for the sick etc.. But if the opposition also become tories then there is no end to that suffering, ever.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@porps OK. I obviously dont agree with you but each to her or his own.

Ive always voted even if it's for the loony party or oddball ones because less than a hundred years ago women fought for the right to vote and millions in other countries don't have that right or have a free vote . No matter how much I moan about stuff , I consider myself lucky I live in this country .


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I hear that Corbyn is endearing himself to his party again


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

[QUOTE="porps, post: 1064660377, member: 1280978"]*No, there's never been anyone worth voting for.*

Yes if the tories get voted in again theres more suffering for the sick etc.. But if the opposition also become tories then there is no end to that suffering, ever.[/QUOTE]

Anyway if you don't vote, you have no right to complain.

Everyone should vote, it's about time they made it law,


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rona said:


> I hear that Corbyn is endearing himself to his party again


oo er ! I didn't see the news . What has he done?


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> oo er ! I didn't see the news . What has he done?


You haven't missed much not watching the news:


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

:Jawdrop :Hilarious

I love the Dad's Army one!


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> Anyway if you don't vote, you have no right to complain.


yawn, this ridiculous statement again is it? Ima let George Carlin field this one...


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Well I have gone completely off Labour after Diane Abbott called 17 million people that voted leave in the referendum racist. That isn't true and I want her to retract her statement as it is dam right insulting.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

porps said:


> yawn, this ridiculous statement again is it? Ima let George Carlin field this one...


Oh FGS. That's basically saying that it's always someone else's fault if things go wrong. Having the vote is a privilege, use it, don't stand on the sidelines and get your soundbites from random comedians


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> Oh FGS. That's basically saying that it's always someone else's fault if things go wrong. Having the vote is a privilege, use it, don't stand on the sidelines and get your soundbites from random comedians


not random. And no, thats not what it's basically saying, though it might be all a brainwashed statists mind can understand from it.

If people wanna parrot ridiculous statements like "if you dont vote you cant complain" then they will be answered with a simple meme, since thats all a statement as stupid as that deserves


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> Well I have gone completely off Labour after Diane Abbott called 17 million people that voted leave in the referendum racist. That isn't true and I want her to retract her statement as it is dam right insulting.


Ugh, her and Lee Jasper can disappear into their own little racist Room 101


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

porps said:


> not random. And no, thats not what it's basically saying, though it might be all a brainwashed statists mind can understand from it.


Please enlighten me, as you are clearly a higher being to this little brainwashed statist.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> Please enlighten me, as you are clearly a higher being to this little brainwashed statist.


You have google. You can read. If you really wished to think outside your statist bubble you would be doing so already. SO your invitation for me to enlighten you is clearly just an attempt to draw me into an argument.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

porps said:


> You have google. You can read. If you really wished to think outside your statist bubble you would be doing so already. SO your invitation for me to enlighten you is clearly just an attempt to draw me into an argument.


I think that ship sailed, my love. You don't name call and then back down when asked to clarify your position. From what I can tell, you seem to get your beliefs from handy little memes, rather than actually think about things yourself and provide a well thought out rebuff when asked. Telling me to Google it just proves to me that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> I think that ship sailed, my love. You don't name call and then back down when asked to clarify your position. From what I can tell, you seem to get your beliefs from handy little memes, rather than actually think about things yourself and provide a well thought out rebuff when asked. Telling me to Google it just proves to me that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about


I have better things to do than argue with tories and blairites who will never change their tiny closed minds.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

porps said:


> I have better things to do than argue with tories and blairites who will never change their tiny closed minds.


Or, you have absolutely no idea what you're banging on about, but someone once told you that being anti establishment was, like, so cool duuude


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

MiffyMoo said:


> Or, you have absolutely no idea what you're banging on about, but someone once told you that being anti establishment was, like, so cool duuude


Or i have better things to do than argue with tory idiots such as yourself, as i said already 

Consider yourself blocked, although of course you can keep banging on with yourself trying to start an argument if it makes you feel like you are having some kind of meaningful input to the thread 

Our time is finite, i choose not to waste mine with tory scum.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@porps , are you sick , disabled , unemployed , in a poorly paid , or homeless? anything , apart from your idealism , that makes you want a socialist government ?


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

kimthecat said:


> @porps , are you sick , disabled , unemployed , in a poorly paid , or homeless? anything , apart from your idealism , that makes you want a socialist government ?


Maybe he means Swedish style socialism like nice, polite people wearing woolly jumpers and paying taxes? Like Olof Palme sort of?


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> @porps , are you sick , disabled , unemployed , in a poorly paid , or homeless? anything , apart from your idealism , that makes you want a socialist government ?


Has @porps ever said he wants a socialist government?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@cheekyscrip That sounds like Lib Dems 

I just want to know where he's coming from .

@Satori yes its back in this thread, about why he hasn't voted


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> @porps , are you sick , disabled , unemployed , in a poorly paid , or homeless? anything , apart from your idealism , that makes you want a socialist government ?


actually i dont want any government at all. But if we must have government then i would have to be completely heartless to want one whose ideology can be boiled down to "greed" over one whose ideology can be boiled down to "share".

Of course, I dont for one minute beleive that a socialist government would be any less corrupt than every other form of government, and my actual ideal is that people be free, rather than ruled by any masters. But ideals aside, to compare conservatism to socialisim is like comparing cancer to a birthday cake. I know which i would rather have.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

porps said:


> I have better things to do than argue with tories and blairites who will never change their tiny closed minds.





porps said:


> Our time is finite, i choose not to waste mine with tory scum.


I really wish you wouldn't do this. I know you have relevant and quite important things to say as I've chatted to you a couple of times and agree with a great deal of your opinions.

How are those closed and tory minds ever going to change if there's no alternative? Surely if you influence one person then that could be a start of a movement towards your vision as that one person may influence several more.

Reacting with venom, even if you are goaded is never going to get anyone to listen or change their minds.

EDIT. I see you have now


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

rona said:


> I really wish you wouldn't do this. I know you have relevant and quite important things to say as I've chatted to you a couple of times and agree with a great deal of your opinions.
> 
> How are those closed and tory minds ever going to change if there's no alternative? Surely if you influence one person then that could be a start of a movement towards your vision as that one person may influence several more.
> 
> ...


some people ask questions because they wonder what the answer will be and some only ask so they can belittle the answer. I try not to waste my time on the latter. 
Perhaps the tory scum comment was a tad harsh  but no point editing now, it's been quoted and discussed.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> @porps , are you sick , disabled , unemployed , in a poorly paid , or homeless? anything , apart from your idealism , that makes you want a socialist government ?


What an odd question. Can only people on that list be socialists?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Jonescat Not all all . I've been most of those at sometime or another and while I would vote Labour I wouldn't vote in Corbyn or far left.

Porps doesnt want a Labour government unless its Corbyn or similar , he rather the Tories became re-elected than have a less socialist Labour. But the thing is he doesnt (AFAIK) havbe anything to lose if the Tories return . but people like me will lose out , we will suffer but he wont , but he doesnt seem to care  That was why I asked him those questions which he hasn't answered .


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> @Jonescat Not all all . I've been most of those at sometime or another and while I would vote Labour I wouldn't vote in Corbyn or far left.
> 
> Porps doesnt want a Labour government unless its Corbyn or similar , he rather the Tories became re-elected than have a less socialist Labour. But the thing is he doesnt (AFAIK) havbe anything to lose if the Tories return . but people like me will lose out , we will suffer but he wont , but he doesnt seem to care  That was why I asked him those questions which he hasn't answered .


You misunderstand my position.
Porps doesnt want a conservative goverment at all. porps has been on the recieving end of tory rule and has felt the impact of it full force before now. While porps does not currently live in the UK, porps still has friends and family there who continue to feel the impact of tory rule. Porps doesnt want to see the only alternative to tory rule be tory rule with labours name. Porps would like for labour to represent an alternative to the tories, not to be more of the same with a different name. Porps doesnt feel that the labour party continuing to move further and further to the right under the idea that winning is more important than ideology will ultimately be good for anyone.Porps feels that that will result in an even more homogenized political climate. Porps feels that many people don't vote because the political climate is so homogenized already that the choice feels irrelevant. Porps feels that a more left wing labour party could motivate those people to take a chance on a system they have become dissillusioned with.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

porps said:


> Porps feels that a more left wing labour party could motivate those people to take a chance on a system they have become dissillusioned with.


Just not this far left 

Well for me anyway


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

rona said:


> Just not this far left
> 
> Well for me anyway


The fact that corbyn is treated as a radical shows just how far to the right britain is.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

porps said:


> The fact that corbyn is treated as a radical shows just how far to the right britain is.


He has some very worrying personal views. I'm not 100% sure what his vision for the country is yet.

I know you probably find him rather mild


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

porps said:


> The fact that corbyn is treated as a radical shows just how far to the right britain is.


So true!

Politics here (& in other countries) has shifted so far to the right that an ordinary bog standard socialist such as Corbyn is portrayed as an 'extremist', when nothing could be further from the truth. His policies are centre left & very mainstream - but people are listening to the corporate media & right wing politicians & falling for the propaganda. Corbyn now has the battle of life in shifting the overton window back to the left. And pray to god he does if we want a fair & just society for all, an NHS & a healthy environment.

https://opendemocracy.net/can-europ...orbyn-mainstream-scandinavian-social-democrat


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

@porps you might think socialism is a birthday cake, but I lived in one for over two decades and it is no picnic.

@kimthecat porps comes from Sweden
By the way you forgot insanity. Or is it under disabled?

@rona Corbyn is left of Marx, he also thinks that he can talk to Spain about Gibraltar.

That is delusional or only @porps may know what he is smoking....

@porps ... I lived under Labour, Tory , socialism etc..

Socialism destroyed and rotten so many countries.

I rather stick pins in my eyes that have the rerun of Orwell 1984 ....

Really being new Cuba is the solution?
Problem with communism and some such:
It starts with Guevara and ends with Castro.

It starts with Marx and ends with Stalin.

It starts with Danton and it ends with Robespierre.

@porps if you like personal freedom, your passport, human rights and similar luxury then please, go to North Korea and we will be talking.

@kimthecat : Pity LibDems proved to be selfserving liars, spineless and without any integrity....

Centre is very much needed in UK.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

cheekyscrip said:


> @porps
> @kimthecat porps comes from Sweden
> By the way you forgot insanity. Or is it under disabled?
> 
> .


 I'd forgotten where he lived but I'm sure he did live in the UK originally ,Yeah , I forgot insanity and one parent family, or unmarried mothers as we used to be called, though I don't think the latter applies to Porps . :Hilarious


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

kimthecat said:


> I'd forgotten where he lived but I'm sure he did live in the UK originally ,Yeah , I forgot insanity and one parent family, or unmarried mothers as we used to be called, though I don't think the latter applies to Porps . :Hilarious


None applies to porps. I like Swedish model myself but it works only in Nordic countries. Where not paying taxes is considered shameful and such bad manners.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> Politics here (& in other countries) has shifted so far to the right that an ordinary bog standard socialist such as Corbyn is portrayed as an 'extremist'


I would view a bog standard socialist as an extremist, by definition. I hope that most of the UK electorate feel the same way because, while Corbyn and his cronies are mildly amusing TV entertainment for now, God forbid they could ever attain real power.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Satori said:


> I would view a bog standard socialist as an extremist, by definition. I hope that most of the UK electorate feel the same way because, while Corbyn and his cronies are mildly amusing TV entertainment for now, God forbid they could ever attain real power.


I mildly agree with you...

Scary.....


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

I do understand the backlash against the right, or centre right. It is viewed as having not worked, and God knows, we could be doing a lot better, but we could also be doing an awfully lot worse! 

I am proud that our right wing aren't anywhere near as right as the US tea party, and are probably viewed as sell outs, and I can only hope that we will never get to be as left wing as some would wish - frankly, any extreme is dangerous


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

I think that's what makes this country Great is that we are able to debate things or should I say our MPs in Parliament and keep each party within boundaries to stop the parties from going to the far left or far right and stops our country from becoming ruled by a dictatorship. Politics is a great thing to have and can be confusing as well. Perhaps the face of politics should change though like it has in Sweden, Norway, Switzerland and the politicians should be acting on what the public want and not what the politicians want. The problem at the moment is the Brexit vote totally threw politics as we know it into chaos as no plans where in place incase the Brexit vote won, the Conservatives don't know what to do with Brexit as they don't know what they want (they haven't thought of asking the 17+ million people who voted Brexit what they want they only assume what we want - as a result of which we are all now being labeled racist and the majority of us aren't), but the Labour party isn't strong enough to take on the Conservatives so the Conservatives have no opposition and it looks like this might be so until well into the new year 2017. Jeremy Corbyn really needs to make himself electable quickly and put a plan in place for the Labour Party, but every day his party squabbles the more supporters will leave as it isn't very attractive to watch this.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> @porps you might think socialism is a birthday cake, but I lived in one for over two decades and it is no picnic.
> 
> @kimthecat porps comes from Sweden
> By the way you forgot insanity. Or is it under disabled?
> ...


http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> I think that's what makes this country Great is that we are able to debate things or should I say our MPs in Parliament and keep each party within boundaries to stop the parties from going to the far left or far right and stops our country from becoming ruled by a dictatorship. Politics is a great thing to have and can be confusing as well. Perhaps the face of politics should change though like it has in Sweden, Norway, Switzerland and the politicians should be acting on what the public want and not what the politicians want. The problem at the moment is the Brexit vote totally threw politics as we know it into chaos as no plans where in place incase the Brexit vote won, the Conservatives don't know what to do with Brexit as they don't know what they want (they haven't thought of asking the 17+ million people who voted Brexit what they want they only assume what we want - as a result of which we are all now being labeled racist and the majority of us aren't), but the Labour party isn't strong enough to take on the Conservatives so the Conservatives have no opposition and it looks like this might be so until well into the new year 2017. Jeremy Corbyn really needs to make himself electable quickly but every day his party squabbles the more supporters will leave as it isn't very attractive to watch this.


This! What ever happened to the Tory policy of giving the electorate the right to sack their MP if they didn't think he/she was doing as they ought to? My biggest frustration is their assumption that they know what we want. But then maybe we should start writing more letters and attending more surgeries.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

porps said:


> http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm


Russians would say: Biez vodki nie rozbieriosh...
Spanish would say: NPI.

@porps they must have very big buses in Sweden...


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

MiffyMoo said:


> This! What ever happened to the Tory policy of giving the electorate the right to sack their MP if they didn't think he/she was doing as they ought to? My biggest frustration is their assumption that they know what we want. But then maybe we should start writing more letters and attending more surgeries.


How about if I wrote an open letter online (for people to sign up to) and send a paper copy to the Prime Minister with a suggestion that she asks the 17+ million people that voted Brexit what they want and the MPs listen to the public for once and take our wishes to the Brexit negotiations in Brussels? Is this a good idea? That will win votes in the next General Election if she does this.

I can put an open letter up online so that it would be searchable. It might help the Brexiters find a solution to Brexit as well instead of flying around the world wasting tax payers money. After all we pay there wages through our taxes and we employ them to run our Union (UK) and Country. It's about time they listen to what the British public want.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

stockwellcat said:


> How about if I wrote an open letter online and send a paper copy to the Prime Minister with a suggestion that she asks the 17+ million people that voted Brexit what they want and the MPs listen to the public for once and take our wishes to the Brexit negotiations in Brussels? Is this a good idea? That will win votes in the next General Election if she does this.
> 
> I can put an open letter up online so that it would be searchable. It might help the Brexiters find a solution to Brexit as well instead of flying around the world wasting tax payers money. After all we pay there wages through our taxes and we employ them to run our Union (UK) and Country. It's about time they listen to what the British public want.


I'd rather they were flying around the world sorting this out than sat at home hoping for the best. I'm sure while looking after their own pockets the majority are trying to get the best for the UK, 
Either that or they are negotiating their future prospects of moving to Europe 

God help us if they ever listened to half the people of PF


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> How about if I wrote an open letter online and send a paper copy to the Prime Minister with a suggestion that she asks the 17+ million people that voted Brexit what they want and the MPs listen to the public for once and take our wishes to the Brexit negotiations in Brussels? Is this a good idea? That will win votes in the next General Election if she does this.
> 
> I can put an open letter up online so that it would be searchable. It might help the Brexiters find a solution to Brexit as well instead of flying around the world wasting tax payers money. After all we pay there wages through our taxes and we employ them to run our Union (UK) and Country. It's about time they listen to what the British public want.


I think that it couldn't hurt. Anything that reminds them who they work for (even if it will be ignored) means that at least you tried, and may remind them that we're getting p*ssed off with being dictated to and told what we think / want


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

@stockwellcat start you very own party then.

Write manifesto instead of that I letter and I might consider...

After Blair and Clegg killed off Labour Lite and LibDem there is lots of space for you in the middle.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MiffyMoo said:


> This is not a party I like:
> 
> Today at Labour Conference
> 
> ...


This is the work of tory blogger Guido Fawkes (AKA Paul Stains) the rabid smear master. You do know hes on Murdoch's payroll?



kimthecat said:


> John McDonnell speech today . he will say basically - labour will be an interventionist government working with the private sector . UK would Borrow in the short term for long term investment and this would trigger investment from the private sector and ultimately higher tax returns .
> 
> So he going to borrow a shed load of money and saddle us with massive debts and we will have to pay massive amounts of interest to whoever will lend us money .
> Will any one lend us the money . Look what we owe,
> ...





MiffyMoo said:


> So no change from typical Labour policy then


Only just had chance to read through this thread & a few posts have caught my eye that I feel I have to respond to lol

Have you actually looked at those graphs on your link and the year at which they peak? They peaked when the tories took the helm.

Osborne borrowed more in 5 years than labour did in 13 years - and that's in spite of him asset stripping the country. After 6 years crushing austerity the UKs current account deficit is not only worse than it was in 2010, its worse than during any period since records began. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...current-account-deficit-gdp-ons-a6961251.html Gidiot gave us our slowest recovery in 300years & was so incompetent he even managed to lose us our AAA rating. Has their ever been a more inept government??

You seem to have fallen for the right wing spin that Labour cannot be trusted with the economy. World leading economist Paul Krugman puts to bed that tory myth. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/opinion/paul-krugman-triumph-of-the-unthinking.html


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Satori said:


> I would view a bog standard socialist as an extremist, by definition. I hope that most of the UK electorate feel the same way because, while Corbyn and his cronies are mildly amusing TV entertainment for now, God forbid they could ever attain real power.


Of course you would, you're an atlas shrugger Socialists are extreme because they believe in a welfare state, free health care for all & the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes.



MiffyMoo said:


> I do understand the backlash against the right, or centre right. It is viewed as having not worked, and God knows, we could be doing a lot better, but we could also be doing an awfully lot worse!
> 
> I am proud that our right wing aren't anywhere near as right as the US tea party, and are probably viewed as sell outs, and I can only hope that we will never get to be as left wing as some would wish - frankly, any extreme is dangerous


UKIP are comparable to Americas Tea party & like the Tea party has shoved the Republicans further right still so UKIP have shoved the torys. All these partys are extreme to varying degrees. They believe in a small state, deregulation & tax cuts for the wealthy & corporations. They are dangerous & not only to ordinary people they pretend to represent but to the living planet _we all _depend upon.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> @Satori I was waiting to see if anyone saw the comment above at the bottom of my first post  and @JANICE199 reply
> 
> *Long live the Tory party, for now we have a one nation party as Labour is a very weak opposition*.


This is a good thing?

I can only conclude you & your family must be extremely wealthy & don't care about anyone else, wildlife or the environment.



MiffyMoo said:


> He had the full party backing last time, so where would the lack of confidence come from? It was only once he started floundering that he lost everyone; so the assumption would be, he is just not a natural leader. That is in no way derogatory, everyone has their strengths, and I'm sure we all know people who have been super at their jobs, been promoted and totally lost it.


He has never had full backing of the Labour party. This article was released just 3 days into his leadership win last year. Almost prophetic.

Very British Coup'?

*The battle plan to oust Corbyn: two scenarios/outcomes*
Posted on 15 September, 2015 by Undercover1

https://undercoverinfo.wordpress.co...le-plan-to-oust-corbyn-two-scenariosoutcomes/


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> This is the work of tory blogger Guido Fawkes (AKA Paul Stains) the rabid smear master. You do know hes on Murdoch's payroll?


And yet he wasn't lying. All you have to do is read any press and you will see how there is an awful lot of anti-semitism at this year's conference. And McDonnell did say that about Esther McVey. I'm perfectly aware of who Paul Staines is


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MiffyMoo said:


> And yet he wasn't lying. All you have to do is read any press and you will see how there is an awful lot of anti-semitism at this year's conference. And McDonnell did say that about Esther McVey. I'm perfectly aware of who Paul Staines is


If you're aware who Paul is you will know most of his crap is spin with no context then. Lets just take Momentum 'mocking injured soldiers' as an example. Guido is an affront to our democracy pumping out his smears & propaganda.

ttp://vfpuk.org/2016/veterans-back-sick-toys/

On Sunday night two establishment media outlets tried to use a veteran-endorsed satirical art project to attack Momentum and Labour.
*
Let us be clear. The superb **'Army, Be The Meat'** project and the '**Action Man: Battlefield Casualties**' films, which were **launched 18 months ago**, are nothing to do with Labour or Momentum.*

The credit belongs to the artist who conceived and created it and, spiritually, to the hundreds of veterans who endorsed it. This work was conceived in response to years of dishonest army recruitment material and we continue to endorse it.

The establishment response has shown two things.

Firstly, it has highlighted the important and popular work done by Darren Cullen and VFP to educate people about the brutal reality of modern warfare and the possible negative outcomes of military service . For this we are grateful.

Secondly it has brought into the open the amateur journalism of sections of the press and the willingness of the elite to exploit soldiers and veterans for political capital.

We might linger over the appalling journalism involved in this pathetic hit piece. In their jingoistic ardour for clicks, the reporters clearly did not even bother to check into the background of the project.

That this project was backed by hundreds of veterans - many of whom bear the wounds of active service in wars from D-Day to Libya - was as difficult to discover as typing words into a search engine and pressing enter.

We might also note that Johnny Mercer and Dan Jarvis, both former military officers turned politicians, both self-appointed "veteran's champions", used the Murdoch-owned Sun newspaper as a platform to attack the project and, by extension, attack the veterans involved in it.

This is the same newspaper group whose senior editorial staff acquired the personal details of dead soldiers, apparently by paying MoD officials.

The same Sun newspaper which slurred the working people of Liverpool over the Hillsborough disaster - a city from which many soldiers are recruited and to which many veterans return after service.

The same Sun newspaper which cheered on the misconceived, illegitimate and ultimately failed wars which saw thousands of UK troops killed, mutilated and mentally injured.

Johnny Mercer and Dan Jarvis, if you attack the efforts of former service personnel in the Sun, or even speak to the Sun, you are no champions of soldiers or veterans.

The British establishment, the Sun, the 'hero' charities, Jarvis, Mercer and their like, have for too long been trading off the backs of ordinary veterans and soldiers to push their pro war agenda. Those days are drawing to a close.

Veterans For Peace UK
www.vfpuk.org


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> If you're aware who Paul is you will know most of his crap is spin with no context then. Lets just take Momentum 'mocking injured soldiers' as an example. Guido is an affront to our democracy pumping out his smears & propaganda.
> 
> ttp://vfpuk.org/2016/veterans-back-sick-toys/
> 
> ...


So out of that huge list that you were originally complaining about, you can only refute one thing? Fair enough, I had no clue to the background, personally I thought it was in really bad taste, but there you go


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> Socialists are extreme because they believe in a welfare state, free health care for all & the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes.


No. Because they believe in social or state ownership of the means of production and distribution, which is both extreme and extremely silly.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

porps said:


> The fact that corbyn is treated as a radical shows just how far to the right britain is.


The fact that Cameron / May etc are considered Conservatives shows just how far to the left Britain is.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MiffyMoo said:


> So out of that huge list that you were originally complaining about, you can only refute one thing? Fair enough, I had no clue to the background, personally I thought it was in really bad taste, but there you go


.

If you think I have trawled though all of that list you are sadly mistaken lol I picked out one ( the one I found most shocking) to prove my point that Staines has zero credibility and is nothing more than a nasty right wing propagandist. He is _very _well known for misrepresenting the truth to fit his agenda. So if you're not interested in facts, fine, but by sharing this trash without even bothering to fact check first you too are just engaging in right wing propaganda & spin against Corbyn. Guido articles are scraping the bottom of the barrel, the subject matter should always be viewed at its original source where it can be seen in context imo.



Satori said:


> No. Because they believe in social or state ownership of the means of production and distribution, which is both extreme and extremely silly.


Sounds good to me  (& they don't believe in social or stare ownership of everything, just our NHS & cash generating assets (stolen from us by the tories) & so on)


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> If you think I have trawled though all of that list you are sadly mistaken lol I picked out one ( the one I found most shocking) to prove my point that Staines has zero credibility and is nothing more than a nasty right wing propagandist. He is _very _well known for misrepresenting the truth to fit his agenda. So if you're not interested in facts, fine, but by sharing this trash without even bothering to fact check first you too are just engaging in right wing propaganda & spin against Corbyn. Guido articles are scraping the bottom of the barrel, the subject matter should always be viewed at its original source where it can be seen in context imo.


Hardly a huge list, is it?

I'm more than happy to keep "engaging in right wing propaganda & spin against Corbyn".


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

MiffyMoo said:


> Hardly a huge list, is it?
> 
> I'm more than happy to keep "engaging in right wing propaganda & spin against Corbyn".


I'm afraid I don't have time to sit here all day. I've proved my point, people who use a well known propagandist as their source of reference... will believe anything.

Course you are, I didn't expect anything else lol


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> I'm afraid I don't have time to sit here all day. I've proved my point, people who use a well known propagandist as their source of reference... will believe anything.
> 
> Course you are, I didn't expect anything else lol


I personally don't think you proved your point at all, but we will never agree.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Satori said:


> No. Because they believe in social or state ownership of the means of production and distribution, which is both extreme and extremely silly.


Total state owership as well as total rampant capitalism are two unhealthy extremes.

Else the banks would have never been bailed out etc...
There is always a point in state ownership and state intervention.

There is state education, health care, transport, army etc..

The important is the balance.

Leave it free for all and the green belts, nature reserves, historicsl sites, musea would collapse.
Science funding, non profit research...

@Satori you are just as wrong as @porps


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> @Satori you are just as wrong as @porps


we cant both be right


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Well here's my take on the whole debate about JC.*
*In all my 66 years i have NEVER seen the media so sh*t scared about one party leader, or politician. So i have asked myself many times what is it they are afraid of. And my conclusion is very simple, JC must be doing things right, which can only be a good thing.*
*Next, who else has been hounded the JC has? He has won 2 party leadership elections, but no. they still have to hound him. Hell, Blair is still getting away with things he should not have done. The corruption that has gone on, right across the parties, but nothing is done.*
*I say, leave the guy alone, let him do his job, and IF he makes a bad job of it, then he hasn't done any worse than the rest. But he does deserve a fair crack a his job.*


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

JANICE199 said:


> *Well here's my take on the whole debate about JC.*
> *In all my 66 years i have NEVER seen the media so sh*t scared about one party leader, or politician. So i have asked myself many times what is it they are afraid of. And my conclusion is very simple, JC must be doing things right, which can only be a good thing.*
> *Next, who else has been hounded the JC has? He has won 2 party leadership elections, but no. they still have to hound him. Hell, Blair is still getting away with things he should not have done. The corruption that has gone on, right across the parties, but nothing is done.*
> *I say, leave the guy alone, let him do his job, and IF he makes a bad job of it, then he hasn't done any worse than the rest. But he does deserve a fair crack a his job.*


I'm not convinced they're sh*t scared. Don't forget how much mud was slung at Nigel Farage - I suspect they weren't scared of him winning, more that he was also an easy target.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

porps said:


> we cant both be right


No. He is a cynic. You are a romantic.

Your vision requires society of altruists.

His vision is the opposite.

None of you can be right.

Sadly communism is not working. Because humans are not ants.
We want to own.
But our greed has to be kept on the leash.


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Well here's my take on the whole debate about JC.*
> *In all my 66 years i have NEVER seen the media so sh*t scared about one party leader, or politician. So i have asked myself many times what is it they are afraid of. And my conclusion is very simple, JC must be doing things right, which can only be a good thing.*
> *Next, who else has been hounded the JC has? He has won 2 party leadership elections, but no. they still have to hound him. Hell, Blair is still getting away with things he should not have done. The corruption that has gone on, right across the parties, but nothing is done.*
> *I say, leave the guy alone, let him do his job, and IF he makes a bad job of it, then he hasn't done any worse than the rest. But he does deserve a fair crack a his job.*


well said


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

JC has as much chance as Nigel Farage at becoming PM.

I am now convinced JC lives in:









He hasn't even got a shadow cabinet and Andy Burnham stood down. Shows the level of support he has within the MPs left in Labour.

He is now saying he wants the party to unite in case there is a General Election next in 2017 doesn't he know the next General Election is in 2020.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

stockwellcat said:


> JC has as much chance as Nigel Farage at becoming PM.
> 
> I am now convinced JC lives in:
> View attachment 285151
> ...


There is talk that if she thinks she can winm she could call one next year.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

Happy Paws said:


> There is talk that if she thinks she can winm she could call one next year.


That would be good for May if she wins if she does call a General Election as she will be elected then and in power until 2022.

Let's be honest at the moment it is all talk in the Labour party, he needs a shadow Cabinet to be able to win anything and he hasnt got one and it could be early next year before he does as they said that the Labour Party Committee will vote on 22nd November 2016 and then if they agree to a new shadow cabinet being formed it has to go to the vote.


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## Magnus (Oct 9, 2008)

It is quite possible that May calls an election early to try to wipe out as much of the Labour opposition as possible.
It makes sense to do this while Labour is in such a mess but, even as a Tory voter, I would rather we waited until 2020 when hopefully Labour will have rid themselves of this ghastly, devious, dishonest old IRA sympathiser and are more capable of forming a decent opposition.
I admit that I am partially pleased that Labour have chosen Corbyn as their leader again as it ensures that they will not form a government any time soon but I am amazed that he has managed to convince so many with his "honest old chap with principles" act. He's poisonous, as is his even more untrustworthy pal John McDonnell.


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> I am now convinced JC lives in:
> View attachment 285151
> 
> .


Maybe but he's not alone. I doubt the Daily Mail will have a similar headline tomorrow!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37508969


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

@Magnus I understand that JM is even more right wing than JC but in what way do you think he is untrustworthy and poisonous ?


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## Magnus (Oct 9, 2008)

I assume you mean "left wing"?

Corbyn blatantly lied recently about the seats on the Virgin train, this not only exposed his predilection for making things up to suit his agenda, it also showed him to be a bit stupid too given that the trains have cctv on them and he is filmed walking past rows of empty seats.
The poison I refer to is that during the height of the IRA's "armed struggle" aka bombing campaign in the UK, Corbyn attended and spoke at "republican commemorations" in order to honour the IRA's dead terrorists. He consistently attacked the Anglo-Irish peace process. The hard left magazine he was jointly editing praised the Brighton bombing. Him and McDonnell were IRA supporters for years while they were murdering people.
McDonnell is a special kind of sh!te. This is the man who praised women who spat in their bosses tea. 
They are low-life scum who have no place in a civilised country's political arena. Idiots supporting these two snakes should dig around a bit more to make sure that they're happy to back people like them.

Have a read....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...rbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

https://medium.com/@steve4good/jeremy-corbyn-s-inconvenient-truth-34d7f462d2a6#.rw6shkdt3

Have a watch


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## Arnie83 (Dec 6, 2014)

Happy Paws said:


> There is talk that if she thinks she can winm she could call one next year.


I can't believe that she would be so irresponsible, to be honest.

Is she going to kick off the Brexit negotiations by triggering Article 50 and then call a General Election, thus wasting a few months of the 2 year time-frame? Or would she go for an Election before triggering A50, thus increasing uncertainty in the business world and make the early negotiations coincide with GEs in France and Germany? And without the Brexit negotiations completed any election would add a whole new tranche of danger for the country; UKIP would be campaigning for a hard Brexit and the Tories might have to match the promise ...

None of those options is in the best interests of the country.

Though I suppose that didn't stop Cameron from acting the way he did.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I am afraid there is a shortage of honest, grounded and level headed politicians that I could feel comfortable to vote for.
If David Miliband came back might have been tempted...

Or if Khan were to have a go?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> Or if Khan were to have a go?


Thought I heard he's been causing trouble recently


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

rona said:


> Thought I heard he's been causing trouble recently


Depends... Some start thinking about him as viable alternative to Corbyn and yes..he criticised him I think.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Magnus said:


> I assume you mean "left wing"?
> 
> Corbyn blatantly lied recently about the seats on the Virgin train, this not only exposed his predilection for making things up to suit his agenda, it also showed him to be a bit stupid too given that the trains have cctv on them and he is filmed walking past rows of empty seats.
> The poison I refer to is that during the height of the IRA's "armed struggle" aka bombing campaign in the UK, Corbyn attended and spoke at "republican commemorations" in order to honour the IRA's dead terrorists. He consistently attacked the Anglo-Irish peace process. The hard left magazine he was jointly editing praised the Brighton bombing. Him and McDonnell were IRA supporters for years while they were murdering people.
> ...


The people who support Corbyn seem to be those who _have_ 'dug around a bit' & not blindly accepted what the bias msm is spoon feeding us. Corbyns voting history is there for all to see - & it clearly proves he represents the best interests of ordinary people as opposed to corporate interests & the elite.

Moving on to #traingate lol. Other people supported Corbyns claim that the train was packed. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rgin-trains-disputes-claim-over-lack-of-seats

So desperate is Branson to discredit Corbyns politics, he breached Virgins own data protection rules. Why do you think that is?










https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...leasing-corbyn-cctv-document?CMP=share_btn_tw

Corbyn wants to renationalise the railways & save our NHS from greedy carpet baggers like Branson, plus force Branson & other tax dodgers to pay their taxes! That is why.

Our taxes are going directly into Bransons pockets - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/21/ow-lucrative--deals-go-to-firms-that-use-tax-havens










These should be the REAL stories, along with the rise in homelessness and poverty, the attack on the disabled etc.

- https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rgin-trains-disputes-claim-over-lack-of-seats

Journalist Peter Oborne is a tory, but a principled one lol & one of the few who writes objectively about Jeremy Corbyn. As Oborne has pointed out before Jeremy Corbyns foreign policy is far superior to the warmongering Blairites & the Tories. If they had taken Jeremys stance on Iraq & Libya we would be living in a far safer world & we wouldn't be seeing the refugee crisis we see today.

*Oborne*_: 'a deeply unfair and partisan British media, much of which is openly determined to destroy [_*Corbyn*_] and distort his actions'_.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/corbyn-troublemaker-1532484034
With barely two weeks to go until the election of a new Labour leader, a British establishment project has been launched to stop Jeremy Corbyn at any cost.

Plan A involves halting Corbyn before he reaches the winning post. Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson, David Blunkett, Alastair Campbell and most of the leading Blairites have already been deployed.

Their mission looks like failing. So Plan B is also in place in the event Corbyn wins. The intention is to make it quite impossible for the MP for Islington North to lead the Labour Party.

Most of the mainstream media as well as the majority of Labour MPs and party donors are part of this conspiracy to nobble the front-runner.

Even though I do not share many of his views, the purpose of this article is to make the case for Mr Corbyn. My argument will be a familiar one to those who follow political events across the Muslim world.

The Western powers always assert that they support democracy. But the truth is different. The West only likes democracy when democracy produces the right result. When it produces the wrong result the West dislikes democracy very much indeed.

In Iran in 1953, in Algeria in 1992, in Egypt in 2011, Muslim leaders swept to power on a powerful popular mandate.

However, Iranian nationalist prime minister Mohammad Mossadegh in 1953, as much as Mohamed Morsi in Egypt in 2011, failed to fit in with Western agendas and both were soon swept away in coup d'etats.

(The same happens in Europe. In 1992 Danish voters opposed the Maastricht Treaty and European monetary union. They were made to vote again. Likewise the Irish voted down the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, and were made to vote again in order to secure the correct result.)

Some Labour strategists envisage that Jeremy Corbyn should be duly defenestrated if he becomes Labour leader in 15 days time - so that Labour supporters can be made to vote again.
. I am not a Labour voter, let alone a member of the Labour Party with a vote in the current election. However, I am certain this would be a disaster for British public life.

Mr Corbyn is the most interesting figure to emerge as a leader of a British political party for many years.

This is because he stands for a distinct set of ideas and beliefs which set a new agenda in British politics. If he wins on 12 September, he will be the first party leader to come from right outside the British mainstream since Margaret Thatcher in 1975.

Thatcher defied the British economic and social establishment, outraging powerful interests within her own party and the country at large as she did so.

If he becomes Labour leader, Corbyn will come up hard against the British foreign policy establishment.

For two decades both main parties have shared the same verities about British foreign policy. They have regarded Britain as automatically subservient to the United States. This in turn has meant that we have interpreted the partnership with the Gulf dictatorships - such as Saudi Arabia and UAE - as central to Britain's Middle East focus, while taking the side of the Israeli state against the Palestinians.

No matter which party was technically in power, British foreign policy has remained unchanged. David Cameron is indistinguishable in foreign policy terms to Tony Blair. (Indeed, the former prime minister has become one of Mr Cameron's most valued foreign policy advisors.)

Jeremy Corbyn would smash this consensus.

To understand the background, it is helpful to read a work by Britain's greatest 20th century historian, AJP Taylor. In 1957 Taylor published _The Troublemakers, _a compelling study of the dissenting tradition in British politics. "A man can disagree with a particular line of British foreign policy while still accepting its general assumptions," wrote Taylor. "The Dissenter repudiates its aims, its methods, its principles."

Corbyn is the most prominent modern representative of the British dissenting tradition as identified by AJP Taylor. This means that his antecedents include Tom Paine, author of the _Rights of Man _and supporter of the American revolutionaries against the British redcoats at the time of US independence.

They also include William Cobbett, who had to flee Britain to find a home in the United States in the days when the US lived up the principles of its founding fathers and really did support freedom, justice and democracy. John Bright, the liberal politician who more than anyone else stopped Britain intervening in the American civil war on the side of the confederacy, is another.

AJP Taylor's dissenters are by no means always right. Most of them were against war with Hitler. But they also opposed the Boer War and World War One (Ramsay McDonald resigned the chairmanship of the Labour Party and Lord Morley resigned from the cabinet in protest against the war with Germany in 1914) and the 1956 seizure of the Suez Canal. In general they are Little Englanders, opposed to foreign adventures of any kind.

They tend to be unpopular and isolated. But Taylor noted that "if you want to know what the foreign policy of this country will be in 20-30 years time, find out what the Dissenting minority are saying now".

Let's now examine Jeremy Corbyn's own record. He opposed the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He argued for talks with the IRA long before this became official policy. He has been ridiculed for talking to Hamas and Hezbollah. By one of the deeper ironies of modern history Tony Blair is now (as Middle East Eye recently revealed) in discussion with Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal, in which enterprise he has the backing of David Cameron.

Most people would agree that on the most intractable foreign policy issues of our time Corbyn has tended to be right and the British establishment has tended to be wrong. What Corbyn does or thinks today is likely to be vindicated a few years later. Hard though it is for the British establishment to stomach, Corbyn's foreign policy ideas have generally been more balanced and far-sighted than those of his opponents.

This certainly does not mean that he is always right. I believe that he has been naïve about Vladimir Putin, ruler of an authoritarian state which is founded on corruption and violence. He has been unwise to contemplate British withdrawal from NATO.

Denis Healey, who as Labour's international secretary played a role in shaping Clement Attlee's successful post-war foreign policy, was withering when Tony Benn (another antecedent of Corbyn) proposed this idea: "deserting all our allies and then preaching them a sermon". Corbyn is open to a similar charge.

I would defend Mr Corbyn's personal talks with terrorists. But terrorist and extremist groups need to be confronted, and their ideology rejected, even when one seeks dialogue with them.

Nevertheless Corbyn is our only current hope of any serious challenge to a failed orthodoxy. Blair and Cameron have both adopted a foreign policy based on subservience rather than partnership with the United States, which has done grave damage to British interests.

In the Middle East this approach has ensured that we are confronting a growing terrorist threat in the region with an ever-decreasing base in popular support, and actually hated by an ever-growing population who identify Britain with their oppressors. There is no country in the Middle East, or around the world, where Britons are safer, or can do business more securely, as a result of Blairite policy.

Mr Corbyn's critics always claim that they want democracy. But do they really? They only want democracy, so long as democracy does not threaten the interests of their powerful backers.

They want a democracy which leaves everything the same. Corbyn is mounting a direct and open challenge to the British system of government of international alliances as they have worked since Tony Blair became Labour Party leader. If he wins, he must be allowed to lead his party and to make his case


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## Magnus (Oct 9, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> The people who support Corbyn seem to be those who _have_ 'dug around a bit' & not blindly accepted what the bias msm is spoon feeding us. Corbyns voting history is there for all to see - & it clearly proves he represents the best interests of ordinary people as opposed to corporate interests & the elite.
> 
> Moving on to #traingate lol. Other people supported Corbyns claim that the train was packed. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rgin-trains-disputes-claim-over-lack-of-seats
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but I'm not willing to read that amount of pro-Corbyn crap. His support of the IRA is a matter of public record as is his opposition to the Peace Talks at the beginning. You can choose to ignore all that if you want but the IRA have left scars on my family and I will never forget him and McDonnell standing with them and honouring their terrorists and murderers.

I am far from being a Labour supporter but I'm sensible enough to know that a government of any colour must have effective opposition; that cannot and will not happen while him and his attack dog McDonnell are at the helm. I fear for the Labour Party with dirt like these two in control.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Magnus said:


> I assume you mean "left wing"?


yes . I get my left and rights muddles up . i have to remember I write with my right and left for labour  :Hilarious


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Magnus said:


> I'm sorry but I'm not willing to read that amount of pro-Corbyn crap. His support of the IRA is a matter of public record as is his opposition to the Peace Talks at the beginning. You can choose to ignore all that if you want but the IRA have left scars on my family and I will never forget him and McDonnell standing with them and honouring their terrorists and murderers.
> 
> I am far from being a Labour supporter but I'm sensible enough to know that a government of any colour must have effective opposition; that cannot and will not happen while him and his attack dog McDonnell are at the helm. I fear for the Labour Party with dirt like these two in control.


If you're only interested in 'anti corbyn crap' then you can't really make an informed opinion. Heres an article from the other side of the fence so to speak - https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2016/05/22/the-spectator-jeremy-corbyn-and-the-ira/

I'm not ignoring anything I oppose violence by all, I just prefer to look at the bigger picture. My uncle is an Irish Catholic, his family over in Ireland suffered too. He is worried brexit will mean a return to the violence over there.

The tories grovel to & sell arms to a despot regime that chops peoples heads off for being gay & exports extremism to this country. Corbyn has vowed to put an end to this revolting relationship we have with our 'ally' Saudi.


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## Magnus (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm not interested in "crap" of any kind.
For the violence in Ireland to "return" it would have to have stopped - it never has.
Corbyn is dirt and McDonnell is worse and fools are wallowing in it.
There is nothing else to add.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Magnus said:


> I'm not interested in "crap" of any kind.
> For the violence in Ireland to "return" it would have to have stopped - it never has.
> Corbyn is dirt and McDonnell is worse and fools are wallowing in it.
> There is nothing else to add.


I know, you're only interested 'anti-corbyn' articles lol

From your second statement, I'm assuming you actually voted for brexit....

I guess the great John Pilger & Noam Chomsky plus 100 university Professors are also fools for denouncing the media bias against Corbyn & supporting his progressive politics, but there you go.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...orbyn-and-the-search-for-the-partys-henry-vii


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## Magnus (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm something of a fan of Pilger and Chomsky and their idealism. I'm less of a fan of university professors; most of the ones I had the misfortune to be lectured by were ludicrously left of centre, massively naive, intellectually narrow and invariably limping under the weight of an enormous shoulder chip.
The fact that Pilger and Chomsky like the idea of Corbyn (or at least the character he plays) doesn't come as a surprise to me; these are old idealistic men who espouse socialism, being unhampered as they are by the realities of mundane household commercialism in which we all have to exist.

When they say "unwarranted attacks" on his leadership they are either mistaken or they are deliberately attempting to give credibility to the poisonous, odious little sh!t because they believe that it is worth ignoring the FACTS about his IRA sympathy and the bullying of his leadership campaign in order to shake up party politics within Labour. 
I can't agree with them.

I fail to see how I voted at the referendum is relevant to Corbyn and McDonnells past evils, present bullying and (hopefully) eternal damnation.


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Magnus said:


> I'm sorry but I'm not willing to read that amount of pro-Corbyn crap.


With respect there's been plenty of anti Corbyn comments on this thread and daily by the right wing press.


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## Magnus (Oct 9, 2008)

Yes, and rightly so. He is beyond contempt.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Magnus said:


> I'm something of a fan of Pilger and Chomsky and their idealism. I'm less of a fan of university professors; most of the ones I had the misfortune to be lectured by were ludicrously left of centre, massively naive, intellectually narrow and invariably limping under the weight of an enormous shoulder chip.
> The fact that Pilger and Chomsky like the idea of Corbyn (or at least the character he plays) doesn't come as a surprise to me; these are old idealistic men who espouse socialism, being unhampered as they are by the realities of mundane household commercialism in which we all have to exist.
> 
> When they say "unwarranted attacks" on his leadership they are either mistaken or they are deliberately attempting to give credibility to the poisonous, odious little sh!t because they believe that it is worth ignoring the FACTS about his IRA sympathy and the bullying of his leadership campaign in order to shake up party politics within Labour.
> ...


Chomsky, Pilger are progressive thinkers(Chomsky is one of THE greatest thinkers on the planet - I very much doubt hes been 'fooled.' lol He knows how the establishment media operates ). There is nothing idealistic about democratic socialism & age has nothing to do with anything. Corbyn offers an alternative to destructive neoliberal ideology supported by the tories & adopted by Blairs new labour. Neoliberalism with its perpetual wars, ecological destruction & gross inequality is true evil!. Maybe you can afford to pay for your own health care & can survive without the welfare safety net - but millions are not so fortunate. And we simply cannot continue plundering the earths finite resources for profit, destroying the climate with filthy fossil fuels. People are suffering, the natural world is suffering if we don't move to a sustainable model soon, it will be too late.



Magnus said:


> Yes, and rightly so. He is beyond contempt.


More contemptible than this man?


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## Magnus (Oct 9, 2008)

Yes, I doubt they've been fooled, I rather think they accept his IRA sympathy and consider it a price worth paying, I don't.
I'm happy for you that you have these views about "destructive neoliberal ideology", they're not my views and I happen to think you're totally wrong. It's all opinion and mine is no more valid than yours, or vice versa.
What I am concerned with here is only Corbyn's and McDonnell's support for the murderous IRA terrorists. That support is a matter of record. They could have supported a united Ireland by backing up the SDLP but chose to support, promote and "honour" Sinn Fein and the IRA.
I will not go into detail of why this matters so much to me but it does, hugely. 
He and McDonnell are scum. 
My part in this thread ends here.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Magnus said:


> Yes, I doubt they've been fooled, I rather think they accept his IRA sympathy and consider it a price worth paying, I don't.
> I'm happy for you that you have these views about "destructive neoliberal ideology", they're not my views and I happen to think you're totally wrong. It's all opinion and mine is no more valid than yours, or vice versa.
> What I am concerned with here is only Corbyn's and McDonnell's support for the murderous IRA terrorists. That support is a matter of record. They could have supported a united Ireland by backing up the SDLP but chose to support, promote and "honour" Sinn Fein and the IRA.
> I will not go into detail of why this matters so much to me but it does, hugely.
> ...


Cameron/ Blair (both warmongering neoliberals) are responsible for the deaths countless innocent people - they are war criminals. Something Corbyn can never be accused of. But war = profit & that is all the neocons care about. I believe the UK is now the 2nd biggest arms dealer in the world. Utterly shameful.

.You can have your own opinion you cant have your own facts. Whatever you choose to believe it doesn't alter the _fact _that neoliberalism _is _a destructive ideology. And with the evidence of its destruction everywhere - you really do need to be wilfully blind not to accept it. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)

You can all relax now. JC has until 2020 to prove himself as Theresa May has announced she is *not *going to trigger a general election until 2020 as it would cause a period instability if she did. She wants to get on with Brexit.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

stockwellcat said:


> You can all relax now. JC has until 2020 to prove himself as Theresa May has announced she is *not *going to trigger a general election until 2020 as it would cause a period instability if she did. She wants to get on with Brexit.


Good girl


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)




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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

kimthecat said:


>


Thanks...it is a good un!


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I simply want David. Always did. Fat cats of Labour went for Red Ed , lost election and look what mess we are in!!!!
David was a good, decent choice for leader to unite Labour supporters and get undecided votes.

He is totally right about Labour.









Corbyn's betrayal and three line whip will not be forgiven.

His policies, good or nor ? How can you trust him that he will not go back on them as he did on Remain?
At least if he consistently supported Brexit...but he went for Remain votes even if reasonably argued for staying in EU?
He changes his policies as it suits his career.

I understand if someone changes their mind in 30 years but in few months?

David. Come back.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Thats when it all went wrong, when they voted for Davids brother Ed.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

cheekyscrip said:


> I simply want David. Always did. Fat cats of Labour went for Red Ed , lost election and look what mess we are in!!!!


It's certainly when the rot started.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Surely by now, you would think he would know the damage he's doing the the party and resign, but he blindly goes on smiling as the ship sinks.


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

Happy Paws said:


> Surely by now, you would think he would know the damage he's doing the the party and resign, but he blindly goes on smiling as the ship sinks.


Indeed. He won't suffer when the living standards of those he's supposed to represent diminish.

I am a traditional Labour voter and would almost be a miracle for me not to vote for them. That included Corbyn as leader even though I never backed him in that position.

The three line whip over the government's Brexit plans finished him as far as I'm concerned. Any respect I had for him ended instantly and went to those who opposed this and Kenneth Clarke too of course.

If he stays on as leader, Labour won't get my vote. I'll vote for a party that opposes Brexit.


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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)




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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)




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## stockwellcat. (Jun 5, 2015)




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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> Thats when it all went wrong, when they voted for Davids brother Ed.


 I liked David , I wonder if there's any chance he'll come back to politics


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

https://twitter.com/i/moments/835794246737133568
 
*Labour's Chakrabarti blames media and former leaders for Copeland *
Politics 1 hour ago
Baroness Chakrabarti appeared on the Andrew Marr, where she downplayed the role of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership in her party's defeat in the Copeland by-election.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Give him anything just get rid of him.


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> https://twitter.com/i/moments/835794246737133568
> 
> *Labour's Chakrabarti blames media and former leaders for Copeland *
> Politics 1 hour ago
> Baroness Chakrabarti appeared on the Andrew Marr, where she downplayed the role of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership in her party's defeat in the Copeland by-election.


I agree with her to a point. Much was down to Corbyn himself however. He could hardly expect Labour to have won in Copeland with his anti nuclear stance with the area dependent on jobs in the industry.

Not forgetting the majority of traditional Labour voters who voted Remain in the referendum being ignored too with his decision to back May's hard Brexit proposals. I'd imagine many potential voters would have stayed at home.

Having said that May herself is delusional believing a predictable by election win is proof the entire UK are on her side.

Then, as reported on the ITV News site Farage allegedly believes UKIP lost Stoke due to not being tough enough on immigration. Can you believe that?!

It's significant Labour won there seeing the area had one of the biggest Leave vote victories, with the Liberal Democrats increasing their share of the vote in both areas.

I can only assume many Labour voters who backed Remain defected to that party, being one of the few who openly oppose Brexit.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I am not a Tory voter given the chance . But NO way I would vote for them unless David comes back.
Corbyn is two faced career oriented, deluded liar.
No matter how lovely his policies are obviously he cannot stick to anything even for a few months.
He is finished.
Nice to agree with some of you for once!


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

Can someone explain to me exactly what is a 'three line whip'? I feel like my brain is blanking out because obviously I know the words, just not in this context lol thanks in advance


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## KittenKong (Oct 30, 2015)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_(politics)#United_Kingdom

From Wikipedia


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

My mind always boggles when I hear three line whip .

http://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/principal/whips/

Whips are MPs or Members of the House of Lords appointed by each party in Parliament to help organise their party's contribution to parliamentary business. One of their responsibilities is making sure the maximum number of their party members vote, and vote the way their party wants.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

They tried the hard coup and now a soft one without a vote!  Oh no wait , that's Brexit ! 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/john-mcdonnell-warns-soft-coup-9925785

John McDonnell has claimed "soft coup" is underway to topple Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

The Shadow Chancellor said the putsch was "planned, co-ordinated and fully resourced" and using the "dark arts" to bring down the Labour leader.
Writing for the Labour Briefing website, he said the coup was being perpetuated by an alliance "between elements in the Labour Party and the Murdoch media empire who were intent on destroying Jeremy Corbyn and all that he stands for."

He said the aim of the plotters was to undermine support for Mr Corbyn among Labour members and voters.
Undermining support for Jeremy from Labour voters is important to the plotters because their objective is to ensure Jeremy trails in the polls and can't win elections.

"In this way they can destroy morale among party members and their confidence in him," he writes.

"The coup is not being waged up front in public but strictly behind the scenes.

"Having learned the lesson of the last coup attempt - that a direct attack on Jeremy and his policies will provoke a backlash from many party members - the coup perpetrators are this time round pursuing a covert strategy."

The article continues: "The coup plotters are willing to sacrifice the Party at elections just to topple Jeremy and prevent a socialist leading the Party."

Mr McDonnell said the tactics include "daily and constant behind-the-scenes non-attributable briefings against Jeremy and his Shadow Cabinet."


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

As if anything could save Labour under Corbyn?
If 65%'of Labour supporters voted for Remain how many left after his deflection to Brexit?

And if you want Brexit, hard Brexit that is Brexit, why , but why would you vote Labour???


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