# Dangerous - cooked lamb bones



## Delissa Needham (Dec 18, 2015)

IF YOU BUY A PRODUCT FROM A BIG SUPERMARKET THAT DAMAGES YOUR CHILD - WHO IS RESPONSIBLE. Not us say Sainsbury's. 
What happens if you go to your local big superstore and buy a product - a toy for your child that causes internal damage, needing emergency surgery with on going hospitalisation and irreparable damage. Who is responsible? Who would you want to hold account for that. Are the supermarket right to say not us. Would you be happy to accept a £20 voucher and a product refund of £1.20 I bought a treat for my dog (Thompson) from Sainsbury's. It was a Good Boy cooked lamb bone specifically for dogs. The bone shattered quickly and the dog- swallowed the contents - the sharp bits compacted in his intestine and have caused irreparable damage to his colon. Thompson was given an enema, bled for a week and was incontinent. My lovely dog sat at my feet and cried with pain. Sainsbury's response is to accept no responsibility - they stock the product - but its not their brand so the customer is directed to the makers of the bone. Under consumer law the contract is with Sainsburys. I have since discovered that the RSPCA website says never give ANY cooked bones to a dog. Vets see many similar cases a year as result of cooked lamb bones. Sainsbury's emails to me say their Pet Buyer fully researches all products! As a customer I buy into the idea that my supermarket has taken all precautions to ensure the safety of myself and my family - and my pets. We buy off the shelf believing that the supermarket ensures quality - and brand assurance is part of the package we are sold by such huge retailers. Its not the case. If a supermarket can stock any kind of harmful product and then direct a complaining customer to the brand. Surely all customers should be aware of that.
AND - Sainsbury's have put the product back on their shelves telling me its not harmful!! Its a £1.20 bone - how much profit can there be in £1.50 to make it worth the risk to other dogs.???


----------



## Jackien4 (May 16, 2015)

So sorry to hear what has happened to your dog. Think that this is terrible and the fact too that they are still selling these lamb bones. May be you could get in touch with the Rspca about this. As this can't go on happening and too the fact that your dog has suffered because of it. Also if you haven't already get in touch with the company that produce them. Hope that he is ok now


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Delissa Needham said:


> IF YOU BUY A PRODUCT FROM A BIG SUPERMARKET THAT DAMAGES YOUR CHILD - WHO IS RESPONSIBLE. Not us say Sainsbury's.
> What happens if you go to your local big superstore and buy a product - a toy for your child that causes internal damage, needing emergency surgery with on going hospitalisation and irreparable damage. Who is responsible? Who would you want to hold account for that. Are the supermarket right to say not us. Would you be happy to accept a £20 voucher and a product refund of £1.20 I bought a treat for my dog (Thompson) from Sainsbury's. It was a Good Boy cooked lamb bone specifically for dogs. The bone shattered quickly and the dog- swallowed the contents - the sharp bits compacted in his intestine and have caused irreparable damage to his colon. Thompson was given an enema, bled for a week and was incontinent. My lovely dog sat at my feet and cried with pain. Sainsbury's response is to accept no responsibility - they stock the product - but its not their brand so the customer is directed to the makers of the bone. Under consumer law the contract is with Sainsburys. I have since discovered that the RSPCA website says never give ANY cooked bones to a dog. Vets see many similar cases a year as result of cooked lamb bones. Sainsbury's emails to me say their Pet Buyer fully researches all products! As a customer I buy into the idea that my supermarket has taken all precautions to ensure the safety of myself and my family - and my pets. We buy off the shelf believing that the supermarket ensures quality - and brand assurance is part of the package we are sold by such huge retailers. Its not the case. If a supermarket can stock any kind of harmful product and then direct a complaining customer to the brand. Surely all customers should be aware of that.
> AND - Sainsbury's have put the product back on their shelves telling me its not harmful!! Its a £1.20 bone - how much profit can there be in £1.50 to make it worth the risk to other dogs.???


I am sorry for your situation and you quite naturally feel very angry.

However the store is correct.

Your argument is with the manufacturer of the item not the retailer.

Practically ANYTHING can be harmful in certain situations I am afraid nothing in life is risk free.

Cooked bones are freely available in most supermarkets and pet shops.

I am afraid that some of the responsibility lies with you, as the owner, to conduct adequate research into what may or may not be suitable for your pet prior to purchase.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> Your argument is with the manufacturer of the item not the retailer.
> Practically ANYTHING can be harmful in certain situations I am afraid nothing in life is risk free.


This isn't the first time something like this has happened. The question is how frequent is it is reality. Now most people on this forum know not to give a dog any cooked bone. Others are told not to give a dog any bone. With so much conflicting information how is a user supposed to know what is right? They are told to trust labels etc.

Your argument is a great example of why the retailer amazon obviously removed the hoverboards from sale recently  Legally you are probably correct, morally you certainly are not.


----------



## Blackadder (Aug 25, 2014)

smokeybear said:


> *Your argument is with the manufacturer of the item not the retailer.*
> 
> Practically ANYTHING can be harmful in certain situations I am afraid nothing in life is risk free.
> 
> ...


I would argue with the bit in bold based on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which states this....

*Satisfactory quality *Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question? For example, bargain bucket products won't be held to as high standards as luxury goods.

*Fit for purpose *The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for, as well as any specific purpose you made known to the retailer before you agreed to buy the goods.

*As described *The goods supplied must match any description given to you at the time of purchase.

Also.....

If what you've bought doesn't satisfy any of the three criteria outlined above, you have a claim under the Consumer Rights Act.
Your rights under the Consumer Rights Act are against the retailer - the company that sold you the product - not the manufacturer, and so you must take any claim to the retailer.

Given that the general consensus is that cooked bones should not be fed to dogs due to the possibility of splintering then I would say that they were/are Not fit for purpose & Sainsburys should know that... after all "Sainsbury's emails to me say their Pet Buyer fully researches all products!"

I agree that some responsibility lies with the OP but that doesn't alter the the fact that when we buy from a reputable retailer we assume that the items we buy are safe... the analogy with hoverboards being a case in point.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Have you been in touch with *"Good Boy"* and told them what happen.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

It is human nature to blame something or someone else for our own misfortunes.

Few people nowadays take responsibility for their own actions and the consequences of their acts/omissions.

As thousands of dogs eat cooked bones regularly good luck with taking any action.

A civil suit is based on the balance of probability.

The manufacturer (and retailer) will (rightly) say therefore that although possible the outcome was not probable based on historic data.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> As thousands of dogs eat cooked bones regularly good luck with taking any action.


Aren't you the one who constantly points out certificates and how they make people experts. Obviously the law doesn't unless of course you can show me a vet which supports feeding cooked bones to dogs instead of warning about the dangers of them.

Where does this historical data come from. As far as I am aware, statistics like this are not kept unless people actually report it. They are less likely to do this if they are always told, it's your fault.

What it boils down to isn't simply thousands of dogs. It also boils down to the fact that dogs are simply property in the eyes of the law, unlike some places like Quebec and I believe Texas where they are counted as more.

Oh, I know you are likely legally correct. Shows what an arse the law and those that hide behind it can be sometimes.


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> It is human nature to blame something or someone else for our own misfortunes.
> 
> Few people nowadays take responsibility for their own actions and the consequences of their acts/omissions.
> 
> ...


Yup...It's why products like Bob Martin can still sell their flea spot on even though it has been known to kill or seriously injure many cats...It's why white rawhide is still widely available, even though it has been known to cause issues with many dogs etc...etc...

There are also many toys that are sold for children that could cause serious issue if ingested, but they remain on sale as the vast majority know to supervise and have researched that the product is safe for their situation!

On all cooked bones you will find this: *Please note this is a natural bone product and may splinter please supervise your dog at all times. *This was not done as the dog was allowed to eat the splintered shards of bone


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Aren't you the one who constantly points out certificates and how they make people experts. Obviously the law doesn't unless of course you can show me a vet which supports feeding cooked bones to dogs instead of warning about the dangers of them.
> 
> Where does this historical data come from. As far as I am aware, statistics like this are not kept unless people actually report it. They are less likely to do this if they are always told, it's your fault.
> 
> ...


Gosh, please point out the post where I have declared "certificates make you an expert"!

ROFLMAO

No what I DO say is that the definition of competency is someone who has the skills, knowledge, ability, training and experience to fulfil theiir function, combined of course with knowing their limitations.

I know it is difficult fo you to a) read b) comprehend and c) interpret posts and that d) you, like a lot of individuals like to put words into the mouths of others, but try as you may you will not find anything to support your entirely false statement.

But if it makes you feel better, be my guest.

I am sorry you are unaware of where historical data comes from.

Let me enlighten you.

It comes from people who record it.

It is very simple

Whether or not dogs are simply seen as property in the UK is entirely irrelevant.

If something causes harm to dogs it can be withdrawn from sale.

And as we all know (according to many who post on here) vets know diddly squat about canine nutrition and members are always being exhorted to ignore what the vet says and instead seek the advice of non qualified, anonymous individuals who populate this forum and others. So whether a vet recommends cooked bones or not is surely immaterial?

Now, who wants to have their cake AND eat it? 

Sometimes I do wonder if people actually read what they type!


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> I am sorry you are unaware of where historical data comes from.
> 
> Let me enlighten you.
> 
> It comes from people who record it.


Which assumes cases like these are recorded. Where precisely, as you obviously know how and where every incident of this nature is recorded. Please educate me as I could imagine it would make for an interesting study to compare raw/cooked bone rupture/blockages from official data as that information has been wondered about for some time.



> It is very simple
> 
> Whether or not dogs are simply seen as property in the UK is entirely irrelevant.
> 
> If something causes harm to dogs it can be withdrawn from sale.


It is relevant as if they were counted as more than property, damages in any won case for causing illness or pain would be greater. It would act as a stronger deterrent from complacency. One of the reasons some companies don't like the idea and have campaigned against it when it has been raised.



> And as we all know (according to many who post on here) vets know diddly squat about canine nutrition and members are always being exhorted to ignore what the vet says and instead seek the advice of non qualified, anonymous individuals who populate this forum and others. So whether a vet recommends cooked bones or not is surely immaterial?


Yet here we are talking about officialdom who know it all or rely on experts.. other, it seems, when it's not convenient. Can you show me anyone on this forum who supports the feeding of cooked bones to dogs?



> Sometimes I do wonder if people actually read what they type!


I agree some people are so keen to tow the official line, they fail to see or acknowledge any fault in it is possible.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

It's a pity such a thing had to happen but really, I feel the real responsibility is with the owner of the dog only to purchase what is safe.

I don't think it's reasonable to place blame on the retailer because they sold the bone which caused the injury.

After all, Supermarkets sell alcohol, so would they be responsible if an adult buys vodka and gives it to a child or if someone overdoses on paracetamol purchased in a Supermarket?


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Which assumes cases like these are recorded. Where precisely, as you obviously know how and where every incident of this nature is recorded. Please educate me as I could imagine it would make for an interesting study to compare raw/cooked bone rupture/blockages from official data as that information has been wondered about for some time.
> 
> *Here we go again.
> 
> ...


I have no idea what the "official line" is to which you refer, however if it is the law, I am proud to say that I am a law abiding citizen and have no intention of deliberately breaking any laws or encouraging others to do the same.


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

I am so so sorry for the loss of your dog but I am afraid I agree with many above posters. 

Many items bought in supermarkets have the potential to cause damage. 

And sadly your case highlights why dogs should always be monitored if given a chew / bone so said product can be removed at the first sign of splintering to prevent the dog eating it. 

If you go into Mamas and Papas for example you will find Cot Bumpers. These can be dangerous yet still available in many high street retailers. 

I do urge you though to high your case with the manufacturer at the very least. But I fear if everything of danger if misused/ used unsupervised was removed from Sainsburys it would be a very empty shop.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

smokeybear said:


> *Please point to the (non existent) post where I stated that "I know how and where every incident of this nature is recorded"*





smokeybear said:


> I am sorry you are unaware of where historical data comes from.
> Let me enlighten you.
> It comes from people who record it.


So you are saying it's recorded with no knowledge of where or how it is being recorded.

The whole vet issue is simple. Vets are divided when it comes to raw bones and statistics on blockages etc divided into cooked and raw are not as far as I know available. I have never come across any vets who support feeding cooked bones. The question was actually in a free magazine in the vets practice recently in Germany. Can a dog have bone. The answer given, yes if raw but never cooked.

When it comes to nutrients, there's a lot of difference between nutrient profiles even amongst vets due to the way different nutrients affect each other.



smokeybear said:


> I have no idea what the "official line" is to which you refer, however if it is the law, I am proud to say that I am a law abiding citizen and have no intention of deliberately breaking any laws or encouraging others to do the same.


Funny, I obey the law as well. However I don't mind saying when a law or interpretation of the law is wrong in my opinion and and should be changed. The law isn't infallible and it's a right we are lucky to have.

--------------------​
In general, how many human/child fatalities would it take for a product to be removed/recalled from a store?


----------

