# Neighbours cat repeller right next to my front door! What can I do?



## SMMARRIOTT (Sep 13, 2019)

i can understand the frustration of not owning a cat but having cats on your lawn, but my neighbours recent behaviour is starting to impact our household pets and I’m not sure what I can do.
She recently had one of those ultra-sonic cat repellers installed, which she’s well within her right to do so, but the cat repeller is placed on her bit of lawn between our driveways and is less than 2 metres away from my front door. The repeller is causing my cat to behave manically, she can’t keep calm, she’s constantly ripping things up in the house and won’t go outside anymore.. acting completely out of the ordinary since the repeller was placed. 
Not only this but recently the repeller was knocked over, I don’t know how but she then proceeded to shout at me, stating that I was “allowing my cat to sh*t on her lawn”...my cats too afraid to leave this house..let alone do her business on the small piece of lawn thats being protected by her high pitched squeal machine! What can I do? My poor cat can’t even live peacefully in her own home ☹


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## NWForest (Nov 26, 2013)

Is it motion activated ? If so you need to get your neighbour to position it better so it only covers her lawn. It can't be allowed to trigger when your cat is on your own driveway and impact your cats ability to use your own front door.
Or you could repoint it yourself when they are out, don't move the position , just the angle it points. If she complains , tell her , it shouldn't be allowed to trigger when your cat is on your property.
If she won't do that , then it's your choice but I would put a piece of square pvc / plastic transparent sheet over the detector block. I'm pretty sure this affects its ability to see as normally it wont go through glass or see through materials of any kind.
If still no success then you might need to think about putting up some solid border edging (just walking cat height, about 12 inches high ) between your drives so your cat can use your driveway unseen by the detector.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

NWForest said:


> Is it motion activated ? If so you need to get your neighbour to position it better so it only covers her lawn. It can't be allowed to trigger when your cat is on your own driveway and impact your cats ability to use your own front door.
> Or you could repoint it yourself when they are out, don't move the position , just the angle it points. If she complains , tell her , it shouldn't be allowed to trigger when your cat is on your property.
> If she won't do that , then it's your choice but I would put a piece of square pvc / plastic transparent sheet over the detector block. I'm pretty sure this affects its ability to see as normally it wont go through glass or see through materials of any kind.
> If still no success then you might need to think about putting up some solid border edging (just walking cat height, about 12 inches high ) between your drives so your cat can use your driveway unseen by the detector.


If it's the type I have then you can adjust the sensitivity and also she can direct them on to her lawn only. We deactivated ours as we only put them there because a bully un-neutered male cat kept attacking our girl but the cat has now moved away with it owners.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Your poor neighbour, wandering cats would be such a pain.
Have you tried talking to her, or writing a letter about how close it is to be affecting you inside?

Your neighbour shouldn’t have to have your cats on her property. Have you considered keeping your cat indoors or buying/building an enclosure?


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## moomoowawa (May 19, 2019)

spotty cats said:


> Your poor neighbour, wandering cats would be such a pain.
> Have you tried talking to her, or writing a letter about how close it is to be affecting you inside?
> 
> Your neighbour shouldn't have to have your cats on her property. Have you considered keeping your cat indoors or buying/building an enclosure?


I don't know where the OP lives, but where I am, a cats right to wander out is enshrined in law.
I'm not sure why the neighbour should be seen as "poor". It's a cat. On a lawn. But then honestly I don't really get the obsession with cultivating a little piece of the natural outdoors and kitting it out with nature repellants (like cat repellents, pesticides, etc).


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

moomoowawa said:


> I don't know where the OP lives, but where I am, a cats right to wander out is enshrined in law.
> I'm not sure why the neighbour should be seen as "poor". It's a cat. On a lawn. But then honestly I don't really get the obsession with cultivating a little piece of the natural outdoors and kitting it out with nature repellants (like cat repellents, pesticides, etc).


The point is it is "their little piece of natural outdoors" and they understandably do not appreciate someones pet using their property as a toilet.
I personally don't like neighbouring cats coming on to my property and using it as their toilet/stalking and killing the wild life and hassling my cat who I choose to keep confined in a run in the garden to keep him safe and to prevent him from annoying my neighbours .
The fact that some outdated law allowing "freedom to roam" still exists doesn't mean that those who don't have or want cats wandering in and out of their property should have to put up with it .


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Soozi said:


> If it's the type I have then you can adjust the sensitivity and also she can direct them on to her lawn only. We deactivated ours as we only put them there because a bully un-neutered male cat kept attacking our girl but the cat has now moved away with it owners.


I agree that reducing the sensitivity may help but directing it on to her lawn only would surely defeat the purpose of keeping the cat off the lawn


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

SMMARRIOTT said:


> i can understand the frustration of not owning a cat but having cats on your lawn, but my neighbours recent behaviour is starting to impact our household pets and I'm not sure what I can do.
> She recently had one of those ultra-sonic cat repellers installed, which she's well within her right to do so, but the cat repeller is placed on her bit of lawn between our driveways and is less than 2 metres away from my front door. The repeller is causing my cat to behave manically, she can't keep calm, she's constantly ripping things up in the house and won't go outside anymore.. acting completely out of the ordinary since the repeller was placed.
> Not only this but recently the repeller was knocked over, I don't know how but she then proceeded to shout at me, stating that I was "allowing my cat to sh*t on her lawn"...my cats too afraid to leave this house..let alone do her business on the small piece of lawn thats being protected by her high pitched squeal machine! What can I do? My poor cat can't even live peacefully in her own home ☹


Cat proof your garden so your cat is contained, then she can get rid of the cat repeller or put it on the other side to keep other cats out.. It sounds like a horrible harmful to cats thing, cats have such sensitive hearing, but I can understand not wanting a cat on the property. I detest roaming cats. My cats are contained and get very upset at strange cats. I don't like my house and trash barrel getting all peed up, or finding poop on my door step. Or picking up fleas or other parasites a roaming cat may drop around, putting my cats at risk.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@SMMARRIOTT 
It seems from what you said, your neighbor is directing this device at your front door to keep your cat indoors.
If that is the case, she is doing more than 'protecting her lawn'. 
She is also it seems causing issues for your cat indoors.
I wouldn't be surprised if the device malfunctioned or went missing.


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## moomoowawa (May 19, 2019)

buffie said:


> The point is it is "their little piece of natural outdoors" and they understandably do not appreciate someones pet using their property as a toilet.
> I personally don't like neighbouring cats coming on to my property and using it as their toilet/stalking and killing the wild life and hassling my cat who I choose to keep confined in a run in the garden to keep him safe and to prevent him from annoying my neighbours .
> The fact that some outdated law allowing "freedom to roam" still exists doesn't mean that those who don't have or want cats wandering in and out of their property should have to put up with it .


It takes a pretty incredible sense of ego to label a law "outdated" because it doesn't align with your personal view, no?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Summercat said:


> @SMMARRIOTT
> It seems from what you said, your neighbor is directing this device at your front door to keep your cat indoors.
> If that is the case, she is doing more than 'protecting her lawn'.
> She is also it seems causing issues for your cat indoors.
> I wouldn't be surprised if the device malfunctioned or went missing.


Agree: and it may be aimed at more than just OP's cat if the area is anything like where I live. If it is affecting the cat's behaviour while indoors, then it should be either adjusted or repositioned.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

moomoowawa said:


> It takes a pretty incredible sense of ego to label a law "outdated" because it doesn't align with your personal view, no?


Buffie is correct, the law, if there is one, is outdated. The world has changed and it isn't safe for cats to roam, and it isn't right that neighbors who don't want cats on their property should have to put up with them, from some archaic belief that cats "need to roam".


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

moomoowawa said:


> It takes a pretty incredible sense of ego to label a law "outdated" because it doesn't align with your personal view, no?


Not at all.........no other domesticated animal is allowed to "free roam" why are cats so different and please don't quote it is in their DNA to wander as that applies to most if not all domesticated animals .


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## NWForest (Nov 26, 2013)

Very concise, interesting and quick read article on this - for the UK

https://www.inbrief.co.uk/animal-law/cats-fouling/


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

buffie said:


> I agree that reducing the sensitivity may help but directing it on to her lawn only would surely defeat the purpose of keeping the cat off the lawn


As soon as the cat goes on the lawn the detector will activate so hopefully the cat would vacate ASAP! Lol


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## AmsMam (Nov 25, 2014)

The neighbour has a right to protect their garden but it's not ok to punish OP's cat in her own home when the device is triggered by something else.

Catproofing the garden or otherwise containing the cat will only help if it results in the neighbour accepting that OP's cat can't be the problem. (Which may not happen if the cat has already stopped going near the front lawn, and the neighbour still blames OP - but yes if you have catproofing its a more solid reason for why it must be a different cat.)

Is there anything they could do to reduce or block the effect in their house if the neighbour won't reposition it?


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

*sigh* Guys, I know how strongly some of you feel about non-indoor cats, but going off on one about it here isn't going to help the poor cat belonging to the OP that is being driven insane _inside the house_ by the badly (probably maliciously) places ultrasonic deterrent.

Used properly, these things can be fine - some friends of mine have one protecting their front lawn to deter a serial feline offender who used to favour their well tended borders as a latrine. The difference is it's placed carefully and only triggers on their lawn area, and not the path to even their front door - and I'd know, as my hearing is ultra-sensitive and I can hear the pesky things quite clearly. That this one is placed so badly it's causing the cat to freak out inside her own home is not OK.

Some of these things have these volume control knobs on them, might be worth a sneaky peak to see if this one has one...


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## moomoowawa (May 19, 2019)

I'm sorry, I wrote my post on the fly as I was travelling and it sounded more aggressive than I intended.

It's just that I sometimes feel like pro outdoor people tend to take a fairly balanced view, while the pro indoor crew on here are almost evangelical about the indoor POV, often sounding quite condescending and presenting it as if it were the only "right" option.

At my vets clinic the three vets have a phrase they use amongst themselves: "crazy cat syndrome". They use it when they're getting called on to investigate behavioural issues that are clearly the result of keeping a cat indoors.

I don't believe there are cats that prefer to stay inside given the choice, and saw it first hand with my Moustique. She spent her first two weeks cowering on the threshold and staying close to the back door. It took her two weeks to build up confidence and now she heads off for longer than Watson, often returning with frogs and crickets.

I don't understand why people take cats and prefer to condition them into a dog-like state. It makes me think these are people who would actually prefer to have dogs, but didn't want the mess, drool and noise. Part of the beauty of cats to me is their mystery and that idea that you live alongside your cat; but not really with them. You don't control cats. They evolved to exist in parallel to us in a give and take relationship: not to be trained and confined.

But I do understand the other point of view too. What bothers me is the way the indoor only view is presented as gospel, when it clearly isn't. And I don't think people who are breeding cats, in other words controlling their lives and their environments to the nth degree, should really be lecturing on what's morally right.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

moomoowawa said:


> I'm sorry, I wrote my post on the fly as I was travelling and it sounded more aggressive than I intended.
> 
> It's just that I sometimes feel like pro outdoor people tend to take a fairly balanced view, while the pro indoor crew on here are almost evangelical about the indoor POV, often sounding quite condescending and presenting it as if it were the only "right" option.
> 
> ...


Mine have a choice, only one really demands sometimes to go out, though not necessarily every day, and will sit by the cat flap to let me know. On the whole, they are happy inside but if they want to go out for a while I let them, apart from the blind boy.


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

This isn’t a debate about indoor/outdoor access for cats! We all know what happens with these threads! so I think we should stick to the problem the OP has with the inconsiderate use of the repellent devices their neighbors are using.
I’m pretty sure that a civil conversation should be had regarding the use of the devices. I have used them myself in the past. Most models have a frequency setting and a sensitivity setting which the neighbor needs to adjust to only protect their lawn but facing the device to cover the front door of the house of the intruder cat is totally unacceptable but getting aggressive won’t help. I think ask the neighbor nicely to try different angles and settings to resolve the problem.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

moomoowawa said:


> I'm sorry, I wrote my post on the fly as I was travelling and it sounded more aggressive than I intended.
> 
> It's just that I sometimes feel like pro outdoor people tend to take a fairly balanced view, while the pro indoor crew on here are almost evangelical about the indoor POV, often sounding quite condescending and presenting it as if it were the only "right" option.
> 
> ...


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

moomoowawa said:


> I don't understand why people take cats and prefer to condition them into a dog-like state. It makes me think these are people who would actually prefer to have dogs, but didn't want the mess, drool and noise. Part of the beauty of cats to me is their mystery and that idea that you live alongside your cat; but not really with them. You don't control cats. They evolved to exist in parallel to us in a give and take relationship: not to be trained and confined.


What do you mean by a "dog-like state"? 
I don't really understand your views here. You do realize there are a lot of people who keep both cats and dogs right?


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

moomoowawa said:


> I'm sorry, I wrote my post on the fly as I was travelling and it sounded more aggressive than I intended.
> 
> It's just that I sometimes feel like pro outdoor people tend to take a fairly balanced view, while the pro indoor crew on here are almost evangelical about the indoor POV, often sounding quite condescending and presenting it as if it were the only "right" option.
> 
> ...


How interesting that you choose to be personally offensive when people are giving advice you don't like.

I feel for your poor cat, she is stuck between two stubborn views. Personally, if it were my cat, I'd be more concerned with their welfare currently than their "right" to roam. Interestingly, my children have a "right" to roam and are about as sensible as my cats. Morals are such a subjective thing, aren't they


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## moomoowawa (May 19, 2019)

Rufus15 said:


> How interesting that you choose to personally offensive when people are giving advice you don't like.
> 
> I feel for your poor cat, she is stuck between two stubborn views. Personally, if it were my cat, I'd be more concerned with their welfare currently than their "right" to roam. Interestingly, my children have a "right" to roam and are about as sensible as my cats. Morals are such a subjective thing, aren't they


But you don't lock your kids in the house and hope that a supply of games and cookies make up for the lack of interacting with the world; right?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

moomoowawa said:


> But you don't lock your kids in the house and hope that a supply of games and cookies make up for the lack of interacting with the world; right?


I find it quite hilarious that you claim to "see both points of view" and then make ridiculous comments like this or the one about "dog like state". You pretend to be live and let live except instead you judge everyone with indoor cats as cruel inhumane jailers. It would be offensive except it's easy to consider the source in this case, meaning with so much hypocrisy how could anyone take you seriously, so it's amusing instead.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

moomoowawa said:


> But you don't lock your kids in the house and hope that a supply of games and cookies make up for the lack of interacting with the world; right?


You say you see both sides yet clearly have no idea about what it means to have indoor cats.

I do not live alongside my cats. I live _with _my cats, they choose to interact _with _me and my family, and I engage with them in a way that they can enjoy.

The notion that people want to keep cats as dogs in ludicrous, even in a breed like mine that are described as "dog-like". Perhaps learn a little more about indoor cats before you make ridiculous assumptions


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## moomoowawa (May 19, 2019)

And let's just be clear: my response was a reaction to a reply ("your poor neighbour...Wandering cats are such a pain") that was clearly meant to pontificate first, and advise second.
So accusations of judging and assuming should presumably work both ways - unless there's some kind of cabal system going on here.

I just don't want people who come on here looking for advice to feel as if they're doing wrong by their cats in an ethical sense. They aren't.


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## moomoowawa (May 19, 2019)

lorilu said:


> I find it quite hilarious that you claim to "see both points of view" and then make ridiculous comments like this or the one about "dog like state". You pretend to be live and let live except instead you judge everyone with indoor cats as cruel inhumane jailers. It would be offensive except it's easy to consider the source in this case, meaning with so much hypocrisy how could anyone take you seriously, so it's amusing instead.


Almost as amusing as tying your cats onto ten foot lengths of rope and pretending they like it.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

moomoowawa said:


> Almost as amusing as tying your cats onto ten foot lengths of rope and pretending they like it.


You've got the wrong person. I would never advocate tethering a cat. You just making things up to suit your agenda? Still funny. But getting a bit tiresome.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

moomoowawa said:


> And let's just be clear: my response was a reaction to a reply ("your poor neighbour...Wandering cats are such a pain") that was clearly meant to pontificate first, and advise second.
> So accusations of judging and assuming should presumably work both ways - unless there's some kind of cabal system going on here.
> 
> I just don't want people who come on here looking for advice to feel as if they're doing wrong by their cats in an ethical sense. They aren't.


Wandering cats are a pain. Why should people put up with strange animals using their property as a toilet? I have young children, I absolutely will not tolerate strange animals depositing their excrement on my property. I do feel for your neighbour, it's not her job to clean up random cat turds.

Ethically, most people do do wrong by allowing their cats to roam. Most (not all) cats are very happy with an indoor life, with access to a catio or catproofed garden. This also protects local wildlife too. There are very, very few cats who _need _to be free roaming.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

moomoowawa said:


> But you don't lock your kids in the house and hope that a supply of games and cookies make up for the lack of interacting with the world; right?


Again I'm confused by your comments. 
Yes, I do/did contain my children when they were young and did not allow them out loose without appropriate supervision. Difference is, my children will eventually grow up and become independent of me and need to learn how to fend for themselves. 
I expect my cats (and dogs) to be dependent on me for life. For food, a safe place to live, veterinary care, etc. I don't expect my cats to grow up, get a job, and fend for themselves.

Can you explain what you meant by a "dog-like state"? I'm still confused by that and I genuinely am trying to understand where you're coming from.

My cats are inside/outside cats BTW.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

I think the rudeness from the indoor brigade is pretty evident. 

As a non UK person, I am more used to free roaming dogs than cats, even when the dogs are not supposed to be free roaming. Maybe it is a Southern US thing.

But that said, I see both sides and where we live, free roaming isn't an option nor is an enclosed garden or catio. 

I would like my guys in future to have restricted outdoor access.

If I was from the UK and grew up with free roaming cats, I would probably see it as natural as many here do.

We all put up with things from neighbors we don't like, barking dogs, car alarms, loud music etc. 
For some reason cats attract particular vitriol.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

moomoowawa said:


> But you don't lock your kids in the house and hope that a supply of games and cookies make up for the lack of interacting with the world; right?


How is this relevant?

How does a cat "interact with the World"?

I too would like to know what you mean by the phrase "a dog like state".


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Summercat said:


> We all put up with things from neighbors we don't like, barking dogs, car alarms, loud music etc.


They're nowhere near in the same league as poo in a garden where a child lives.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Rufus15 said:


> They're nowhere near in the same league as poo in a garden where a child lives.


And that is not just cats.
Having seen my share of dogs being 'walked' trotting into peoples front yards to pee and poo. There are many dogs that are taken for walks with freedom to run ahead it seems. Defecating and urinating on property and public spaces and not always cleaned up by the owner, as we all know.

And if your personal irritation is buried cat poo in a garden, mine is loud noise from neighbors.

Each to their own.

I hope we hear from the OP to a successful conclusion, as sound waves directed in such a way to frighten her cat whilst indoors are not appropriate.

And whatever anyone's personal feelings, her cat is legally allowed outdoors.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

SMMARRIOTT said:


> stating that I was "allowing my cat to sh*t on her lawn"...my cats too afraid to leave this house..let alone do her business on the small piece of lawn thats being protected by her high pitched squeal machine! What can I do? My poor cat can't even live peacefully in her own home ☹


Are the front gardens fenced all around? How big is the piece of lawn between the two properties? Does both properties share the strip of lawn? Is there a fence/divide that separates her bit of lawn of from yours (if it is shared?)


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## Lisa2701 (May 15, 2010)

Do we really need to have so much ‘us and them’ mentality? Can’t we all just agree we love cats and we do what we feel is best for ‘our’ cat and our circumstances!

I’ve got dogs and indoor cats.... they’re nothing alike and nor would I like them to be... I have different animals because I can appreciate their unique traits! 
I used to have an out door cat, I’m not against it... I now choose to keep my two in because we live on a dangerous road. I provide a lot more in terms of stimulation for my indoor cats than I even considered for my out door girl.

I understand the argument of ‘theyre still semi wild and need to roam and hunt’ because it’s how I used to see things but I now also understand that if I let my overly friendly/trusting cats out they’re either going to be hit by a bus or mauled by a dog due to their lack of fear of anyone/thing .... it’s not the worst thing on the planet to have an indoor cat and yes, they can be happy!

My sister leaves her back door open and one of her cats goes out and one refuses to (she’s tried to encourage him). So not all cats NEED to get outdoors, although I’m sure there are ‘some’ who wouldn’t be content indoors.

My point is... we all love cats... none of us want this little cat driven insane in her own home... can we just focus on that please???


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Summercat said:


> Maybe it is a Southern US thing.


Are you in the southern US? 
Just wondering as I noticed you also said 'yard' in another post. 
I'm in the southern US


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I have nothing against cats going outside for whatever that's worth. To me it's not an indoor/outdoor question, but rather a question of _how_ you let your cat out if that is what you choose to do. 
My cats go out, but I know more or less where they are, I make sure they do not get in to trouble or trouble anyone else. If a neighbor came to me to say my cat was being a nuisance in any way I would take steps to prevent that from happening. My issue is with the "oh well, cats roam, whatcha gonna do" laissez faire attitude about cats roaming. Take responsibility! 
Granted, a nuisance cat here is likely to get shot so I'm probably a little more motivated to make sure I know where my cats are and that they're not bothering anyone.

OP, I wonder if you could attempt a neighborly chat with your neighbor? I know it hasn't gone well so far, but maybe if you could show that your cat won't leave her house and therefore is not pooping outside? 
Alternately if it is possible that it's your cat pooping on your neighbor's lawn, could you offer to clean it up? Or maybe put a litterbox outside for your cat so she doesn't use the neighbor's lawn?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Rufus15 said:


> [..] I have young children, I absolutely will not tolerate strange animals depositing their excrement on my property. [..


Oh that's good Rufus, you have a garden now!


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@Rufus15 
Are you cat proofing your garden?


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## TriTri (Oct 31, 2017)

:Cat:Cat


Summercat said:


> And that is not just cats.
> Having seen my share of dogs being 'walked' trotting into peoples front yards to pee and poo. There are many dogs that are taken for walks with freedom to run ahead it seems. Defecating and urinating on property and public spaces and not always cleaned up by the owner, as we all know.
> 
> And if your personal irritation is buried cat poo in a garden, mine is loud noise from neighbors.
> ...


Well said @ Summercat


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Summercat said:


> And that is not just cats.
> Having seen my share of dogs being 'walked' trotting into peoples front yards to pee and poo. There are many dogs that are taken for walks with freedom to run ahead it seems. *Defecating and urinating on property and public spaces and not always cleaned up by the owner, as we all know.*
> 
> And if your personal irritation is buried cat poo in a garden, mine is loud noise from neighbors.
> ...





TriTri said:


> :Cat:Cat
> Well said @ Summercat


I have not seen that happen personally and I don't disagree it probably does happen but the difference is "it is against the law to allow dogs to foul anywhere in public places" owners can and will be fined if caught allowing it to happen. 
Cat owners on the other hand sail happily through life in full knowledge that their cats can and most likely do use gardens as toilets obviously thinking it doesn't matter there is no law to prevent it............


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

buffie said:


> the difference is "it is against the law to allow dogs to foul anywhere in public places" owners can and will be fined if caught allowing it to happen.


This makes me even more curious if @Summercat is in the US because we're pretty fair here about any animal doing damage to property. Doesn't matter if it's your cat, your horse, or your pet turtle who's fouling or destroying property, the owner is responsible.

Years ago, I was keeping a friend's horse who let himself and two other horses out of their stalls one night. They went on a walkabout to a neighbor up the road with a very pretty, lush lawn. Between the clumps they dug up munching on the lawn and the clumps they kicked up walking on it, they made a good mess. 
I found them the next morning in our front yard, put them up and didn't think any more of it until I drove in to town, saw the neighbor's lawn and realized it was probably my lot who did it. I called them and told them we would of course fix/pay for whatever needed to be done. They were super nice about it and laughed it off, but legally they would have been within their rights to charge us for fixing the damage.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@buffie 
Very surprised you have never seen dogs urinate or defecate in public areas or on someone's property.

Yes, In many places it is against the law and people can be fined but I think it happens in a minority of cases. Same as when leash laws are not often enforced.
There are laws in certain areas where the owner is supposed to clean up after their dogs defecating and frankly there seems to be little monitoring of that from what I have seen. As I suppose rightly it is not a major concern vs other concerns.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Summercat said:


> @buffie
> *Very surprised you have never seen dogs urinate or defecate in public areas or on someone's property.*
> 
> Yes, In many places it is against the law and people can be fined but I think it happens in a minority of cases. Same as when leash laws are not often enforced.
> There are laws in certain areas where the owner is supposed to clean up after their dogs defecating and frankly there seems to be little monitoring of that from what I have seen. As I suppose rightly it is not a major concern vs other concerns.


Years ago it was fairly common for dogs to be "latch key" dogs who were put out in the morning while owners were out and brought back in later in the day,were rarely walked and did foul as and where they liked.
That is not the case now ,certainly nowhere in the UK that I have been , dogs now must be micro chipped,and accompanied while on a walk and on street walks should never be off lead.
If they foul on public ground ( defecating only ) , which they will on occasions ,95% of owners will clear up after them and believe me if responsible dog walkers see anyone not picking up after them they will soon wish they had .
I have not owned dogs for a few years now but did for longer than I care to admit before that and the difference now to what it used to be 20/ 30 years ago is amazing.
As you live in the US I would be interested to know where you get the impression dogs still roam streets defecating in an uncontrolled fashion.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

O2.0 said:


> *This makes me even more curious if @Summercat is in the US because we're pretty fair here about any animal doing damage to property. Doesn't matter if it's your cat, your horse, or your pet turtle who's fouling or destroying property, the owner is responsible*.
> 
> Years ago, I was keeping a friend's horse who let himself and two other horses out of their stalls one night. They went on a walkabout to a neighbor up the road with a very pretty, lush lawn. Between the clumps they dug up munching on the lawn and the clumps they kicked up walking on it, they made a good mess.
> I found them the next morning in our front yard, put them up and didn't think any more of it until I drove in to town, saw the neighbor's lawn and realized it was probably my lot who did it. I called them and told them we would of course fix/pay for whatever needed to be done*.* They were super nice about it and laughed it off, but legally they would have been within their rights to charge us for fixing the damage.


It does seem odd that your experience and that of other US members appears to be different to that of @Summercat


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

buffie said:


> It does seem odd that your experience and that of other US members appears to be different to that of @Summercat


That's probably because she lives in Russia


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Rufus15 said:


> That's probably because she lives in Russia


Does she  .................Oops


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

buffie said:


> It does seem odd that your experience and that of other US members appears to be different to that of @Summercat


Summercat is from the US, but is not living there at present, though I don't know for how long she's lived abroad. Not all her adult life AFAIK.

Speaking of the UK, it's not unusual for me to find dog turds left on the small grassy area right outside my front gate (i.e. on my property). It's unhygienic, smells, and in warm weather attracts flies. I have yet to catch the dog at it, and identify the owner. I've never seen any dogs running free in the lane, they are always on the leash, so whoever the owner is they know what the dog is doing. One of my neighbours has the same problem with dog poo left on her driveway if she leaves her gate open.

There are often angry rants on the local social media group about dog owners who leave their dog's poo on pavements, grassy areas etc. Frequently the dog owner has not been identified so a complaint can't be made to the council anyway. Times when the dog has been caught in the act, and the owner challenged, have led to angry exchanges, with the dog owner showing no remorse, and walking away without picking up the dog's turds. When you live in a rural area I am sure the Council is not too bothered about reports of occasional dog fouling. Different in the towns.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

chillminx said:


> *It's unhygienic, smells, and in warm weather attracts flies.* I have yet to catch the dog at it, and identify the owner. I've never seen any dogs running free in the lane, they are always on the leash, so whoever the owner is they know what the dog is doing. One of my neighbours has the same problem with dog poo left on her driveway if she leaves her gate open.
> 
> There are often angry rants on the local social media group about dog owners who leave their dog's poo on pavements, grassy areas etc. Frequently the dog owner has not been identified so a complaint can't be made to the council anyway. Times when the dog has been caught in the act, and the owner challenged, have led to angry exchanges, with the dog owner showing no remorse, and walking away without picking up the dog's turds. When you live in a rural area I am sure the Council is not too bothered about reports of occasional dog fouling. Different in the towns.


So dog poo is much like cat poo because that stinks ,attracts flies and is unhygienic ...:Yuck the only difference is that dog poo is rarely found within the property boundaries where as cat poo is usually buried in veggie plots / flower beds where the owner of the property only discovers it after it is too late to avoid it .
My experience is so obviously different to yours where dog owners are concerned , I have found that dog fouling has become as socially unacceptable as drinking and driving , many may not necessarily want to abide by the law but most will rather than be seen to be ignoring it.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@buffie 
I am very surprised someone from the US has not seen dogs wandering about off lead in public, while with humans or without their humans nearby, not an unusual sight at all.

Do they not have public parks where these US members live? They seem to be common places to see dogs off lead.

In fact any given early evening in the suburb my father lives, people like to take walks for exercise often with dogs. Some dogs are on lead but often off. Not unusual to see them wander quite far ahead, peeing in other peoples bushes and flowerbeds as they go. 
Walking and riding a bike was a risky activity in my eyes as a teen, as dogs would often run barking out of peoples yards onto the street..... 
I guess it is different, in the magical world other US members inhabit.

I did not say I was living in the US, but most of my experience is US based, as I have lived there most of my life and usually spend a month or so a year there nowadays.
I have mentioned this before.

In Scotland a few years ago, maybe seven, I saw lots of dogs running ahead off lead on coastal trails where there were nesting birds and nearby areas with herds of sheep. 
I have to wonder about all these highly obedient dog owners.
I think there was a case not long ago in the UK, where a small dog was attacked and killed in a public area by a larger dog. The dog owners walked away with their dog. All the would be indignant dog owners who supposedly stand up to poo, didn't stop the two people from leaving with their dog who killed another dog.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@buffie - yes one would have thought dog fouling to be socially unacceptable these days, but apparently not, amongst certain owners. 

I do find it very inconsiderate of the owners, and yes, I find it almost as unpleasant when my neighbour's cats sometimes poo in my front garden. It means OH or I have to clear it up, but at least cat poo is smaller in quantity than the piles of doggy poo and cat poo is usually buried. Plus it hasn't been a deliberate action on the cat owner's part, whereas the dog owner (or owners) have knowingly let their dogs foul where they shouldn't, and then deliberately walked away and left it there. That to me is worse.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

It isn't, in my opinion, acceptable for any animal to use someone else's property as a loo, whether that's a dog or a cat.

I get that cat poops are usually smaller than those of a dog, but poop is poop.

Our elderly Staffy was once very ill for three days after eating cat poop in my back garden when she got to it before I did and it cost me a fair amount in Vet bills.

Not picking up behind your dog can carry a hefty fine, yet, allowing your cat to poop at random over a wide area is acceptable and not irresponsible at all?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

buffie said:


> It does seem odd that your experience and that of other US members appears to be different to that of @Summercat


To be fair, the US is vast and can be vastly different from one part to another, urban to rural, etc. I just noticed @Summercat saying something about the southern US which piqued my interest as I am in the Southeast of the US.
We are very rural here and it's true that some areas have a shocking lack of supervision of their pets. I have one route I run where I will have to deal with multiple loose dogs. No, it's not fun.

Most responsible dog owners are just as annoyed by loose, uncontrolled dogs as anyone else. The threads in dog chat are numerous.

The biggest difference in attitude that I've noticed though is that here, at least in this part of the US where I live, a nuisance animal is a nuisance animal. Nobody cares if it's a dog, a cat or a donkey. 
And of course, this is the US, loose animals also get shot. Most people are not trigger happy about it, they'll usually try other deterrents first (unless their own animals are threatened). But when you live in an area where there are several reported cases of rabies every year, unknown visitors are not looked on kindly.

About 5 summers ago, OH had to shoot a raccoon who was out in broad daylight walking funny. Yep, rabid. All our animals are vaccinated, but it's still a worry. 
My sister lives several states away in an urban area and things we're like another world. She was horrified OH had shot the raccoon. So yes, very different attitudes and experiences - I suppose like anywhere.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

You all should've seen the furores on our towns fb page because someone's horse had defecated and splashed partially on the footpath, but mainly on the busy, but narrow, stretch of main road
No amount of telling the numpties that it was dangerous to dismount and poo pick at that particular place, would quieten the wrath, no amount of trying to explain that horse poo and cat/dog poo were completely different, would quell the tide of abuse
Plague was-a-coming!
Eclipsed everything I've seen re dog or cat poo, fisticuffs at dawn was even mentioned
*Small town mentality*


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

@Summercat when I said I don't see dogs running free and toileting on grass I was referring to "on street" dogs.
There is no reason for dogs not to be allowed to free run in open spaces other than "childrens play area's" or where livestock are kept.
Owners are however expected to pick up after them...........peeing is allowed 
As for dogs running on costal trails "possibly disturbing nesting birds" how is that different to cats stalking nesting birds in parks and gardens ?

@chillminx the minority of dog owners who walk away from a deposit left by their dog may very well be doing it deliberately but surely the cat owner who knows their cats are wandering far and wide into neighbours gardens in the knowledge that they will most likely toilet somewhere other than on their own property are also guilty of doing so deliberately are they not .


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

mrs phas said:


> You all should've seen the furores on our towns fb page because someone's horse had defecated and splashed partially on the footpath, but mainly on the busy, but narrow, stretch of main road
> No amount of telling the numpties that it was dangerous to dismount and poo pick at that particular place, would quieten the wrath, no amount of trying to explain that horse poo and cat/dog poo were completely different, would quell the tide of abuse
> Plague was-a-coming!
> Eclipsed everything I've seen re dog or cat poo, fisticuffs at dawn was even mentioned
> *Small town mentality*


We live rurally and there are lots of local horsey folk who ride their horses on the lanes and the main road (and peculiarly sometimes on the pavement) through the village.

I love horses; I love seeing them in the village but can I just assure you that walking horse sh*t through my house, as I've done on a number of occasions, leaves me with just as much, if not more, mess to clean up than having trodden in dog poop.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Meh, poop happens. That dogs, cats, and wild animals take a crap doesn't bother me. I'm not a fan of my idiot dogs rolling in it, but it's part of dog ownership the way I see it. To cats' credit, never had one roll in shit. 

Strangely, if a dog rolls in horse or other herbivore poop, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'll wash 'em but it's no biggie.
Dog and cat poop grosses me out. 
Coyote scat is vile.
But the absolute worst thing in the whole world IMHO is to be out in the woods and find human poop. That will get me gagging. *shudder* 
Thank everything I've never had a dog roll in that, but I've heard stories. I think I might have to sell the dog if he/she did. (That's a joke. Maybe...) 

It does bother me when owners know their animals are crapping in areas where others might not appreciate it and don't take steps to prevent it or clean it up. That goes for dogs, cats, pet rabbits, T-rex, or wayward husbands. Clean up after your animal.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@buffie
My comment referred to bushes and flowerbeds, areas others may not like passing dogs to pee on their property. Which I mentioned, due to an unrealistic view you seem to have been given of dogs in the US. As it is something I have seen often in the US.

And running free in open spaces, well it depends on the dog I would say and how well trained it is. So I would disagree about the wisdom of all dogs running free.
It seems most people on PF seem to take more effort to train their dogs than many others do.
Not everyone wants to be around dogs running free, running up to them barking, jumping or worse.
If it is legal then it is legal but then not always pleasant like cat poo buried in your garden.

As for the comparison with other wildlife and cats I agree, but my point was you seem to find all dog owners very obedient to laws, which I have not seen. In the US or UK.

And as said, despite what is expected, it not always done. A pile of dog poo in public is a bit more messy than a smaller bit of cat poo buried in a garden.
The gardener may not like it but at least others won't trample through it.

As for horses, horse manure doesn't bother me, it tends to be in obvious places and easy to avoid unlike dog poo. I don't mind the smell of manure either.

Currently in the UK cats can _legally _roam. With roaming owners can not always contain where they defecate.

As I have said, I personally would not allow my cats to free roam if we live where we are given the option but would prefer a cat proofed garden.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

@Summercat we will just have to agree to disagree on "dogs" we obviously have different experiences where they are concerned .
I agree not all dog owners are "responsible" but in general I have found most abide by the law


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

It's not just an issue of poop though is it?
Unattended animals can get themselves in to trouble or cause trouble for others - or both. 
Being responsible for your pet is not just about cleaning up their poop but making sure they are safe and not being a nuisance to others.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> It's not just an issue of poop though is it?
> Unattended animals can get themselves in to trouble or cause trouble for others - or both.
> Being responsible for your pet is not just about cleaning up their poop but making sure they are safe and not being a nuisance to others.


I think there has to be some give and take in the argument, though.

I have one cat who cannot be an indoor cat as if you confine her to the house for more than a few days, she gets depressed. She doesn't play with toys, she's not distraced by the TV or radio, all she does is sit at the back door and beg pitifully to be allowed out. Once she's out there, she usually just wants to potter about a bit (well, she is fourteen now), or sun herself up on the shed roof. For a large number of reasons I won't go into, I can't cat proof the garden, so it comes down to allowing her out or watching her slowly withdraw from the world into a hollow shell of herself that doesn't even want to be touched. So if going outdoors was not an option at home any more, my choices would come down to rehome, watch her suffer and beg, or euthanasia. If all cats had to be indoor only, then I'm down to two equally awful options.

I know I'm blessed in that none of my neighbours are bothered by my girls being out (Lori runs away from all other humans anyway! And everyone loves Charlie-girl), and several also have cats of their own. If any in the future were, then I'd have to work out what to do then, hopefully in collaboration with those neighbours.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Jesthar said:


> I think there has to be some give and take in the argument, though.
> 
> I have one cat who cannot be an indoor cat as if you confine her to the house for more than a few days, she gets depressed. She doesn't play with toys, she's not distraced by the TV or radio, all she does is sit at the back door and beg pitifully to be allowed out. Once she's out there, she usually just wants to potter about a bit (well, she is fourteen now), or sun herself up on the shed roof. For a large number of reasons I won't go into, I can't cat proof the garden, so it comes down to allowing her out or watching her slowly withdraw from the world into a hollow shell of herself that doesn't even want to be touched. So if going outdoors was not an option at home any more, my choices would come down to rehome, watch her suffer and beg, or euthanasia. If all cats had to be indoor only, then I'm down to two equally awful options.
> 
> I know I'm blessed in that none of my neighbours are bothered by my girls being out (Lori runs away from all other humans anyway! And everyone loves Charlie-girl), and several also have cats of their own. If any in the future were, then I'd have to work out what to do then, hopefully in collaboration with those neighbours.


I didn't suggest anything in my post about keeping cats inside. My cats too would hate being indoor only cats.
I am not saying cats should be contained inside or even contained in a cat proof garden.
I'm saying owners should be _responsible_ for their pets.

My cats go out. I make it my business to make sure I know where they go when they go out and what they do.
My dogs go out too. Here too I make sure I know where they are and what they're doing and that they're not making a nuisance of themselves to anyone.
I feel that is my responsibility as their owner and caretaker, to make sure they are safe and not causing trouble to anyone.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Jesthar said:


> I know I'm blessed in that none of my neighbours are bothered by my girls being out (Lori runs away from all other humans anyway! And everyone loves Charlie-girl), *and several also have cats of their own.* If any in the future were, then I'd have to work out what to do then, hopefully in collaboration with those neighbours.


I have cats of my own too. But I don't want the neighbor's cats peeing up my trash barrel and siding and pooping on my door step. Since this happens regularly it doesn't matter what I want does it?

Not only is it costly and time consuming to keep things clean, I worry constantly about any parasites or diseases I may be bringing in, not to mention when my cats smell strange cats it gets them pretty upset.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

O2.0 said:


> I didn't suggest anything in my post about the indoor/outdoor debate.
> I am not saying cats should be contained inside.
> I'm saying owners should be responsible for their pets.


Fair enough.  Some here do inextricably link the two, though, sometimes in a quite extreme fashion.



O2.0 said:


> My cats go out. I make it my business to make sure I know where they go when they go out and what they do


And this point would be the point where the contention usally arises. By choice I don't have a cat flap, and my two only get let in and out when I am home, so they don't come and go as they please. They also have pretty good recall (for cats!). But that's not enough for some, and one does get so very, very tired of all the vitriol and negativity. One time someone even heavily implied euthanasia would be the best option for my old girl who can't stand being indoors only, which wasn't particularly pleasant.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Jesthar said:


> But that's not enough for some, and one does get so very, very tired of all the vitriol and negativity.


Sure. You might get tired of shit and piss all over your house and doorstep too, if you had to deal with it all the time.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

lorilu said:


> Sure. You might get tired of shit and piss all over your house and doorstep too, if you had to deal with it all the time.


Pretty sure it's not @Jesthar cat(s) peeing and pooping all over your house 

It's almost like the neutering debate isn't it? 
There are dog owners who are incapable of keeping an intact dog and being responsible about it. That doesn't mean it's not possible to keep an intact dog responsibly. The issue is responsibility, not neutering. 
In a similar way, to me, the issue is not whether you let your cats out or not, but if you take responsibility for your cats and what they might get up to when they're out.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

O2.0 said:


> In a similar way, to me, the issue is not whether you let your cats out or not, but if you take responsibility for your cats and what they might get up to when they're out.


Sure. They could keep them in or contained in a cat containment system. But they don't. So we're back to me dealing with someone else's cat pee and cat poop on a daily basis.

I don't particularly enjoy scrubbing my siding and my trash barrel and my front door stoop after a long day at work. I'd rather sit out on my cat proofed porch with my indoor cats so they could enjoy the lovely fall weather while I rest from the day. (After I ensure the cat proofing hasn't been sprayed) But, there I am, scrubbing the siding and the barrel and my front door stoop.


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## Gallifreyangirl (Feb 11, 2015)

@chillminx your not the only that gets dog poo by your front garden as well. I think we need to be less harsh with indoor and outdoor cats as we all love our cats on here. My cat is outdoor but I don't have issues with indoor only cats. I feel sorry for the OP and you can get things resolved for you with the cat deterrent in front garden.


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## xpl0rer (Jun 16, 2021)

Came across this as its something I've encountered recently and got resolved - a cats freedom to roam doesnt even come into it if it is in the boundaries of your own property (our cat is an indoor cat by her own choice due to bad health) - we threatened with court action, and both solicitors advised we would have won with ease. Turns out if the sonic device is affecting the cat INSIDE your home (you can prove this easily with a simple, cheap, decibel meter), then this is classed as undue suffering (Animal Welfare Act 2006 - Section 4) which is far more illegal and a good thing to point out to the neighbour, the court will make her remove it in a best case scenario and forbid her from ever using one again (her solicitor will also strongly advise she removes it or relocates it to avoid court, as with our case). Prison is a real possibility accompanied by a criminal record for animal abuse, as it is a criminal offense to cause undue (preventable) suffering to animals. IE. No civil small claims court here!

Not to mention, that while minimal exposure is fine, constant high-frequency sound can damage a cats ear drums, (and our own, even though we can't hear it over a certain age).

legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/section/4


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

I so hate these threads 

I've seen some of the most bizarre statements made on this thread, I mean really, really bizarre.

Few have actually helped the OP.

EDIT: I now realise this is a zombie thread from two years ago as well :Banghead


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Tigermoon said:


> I so hate these threads
> 
> I've seen some of the most bizarre statements made on this thread, I mean really, really bizarre.
> 
> ...


Oh no, please say you haven't just read all the thread @Tigermoon get all het up, then realised it was old :Hilarious:Hilarious poor you, double blow, great start to the day

on the other hand, things can only get better :Smuggrin hope you and your little furries are well x


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

ewelsh said:


> Oh no, please say you haven't just read all the thread @Tigermoon get all het up, then realised it was old :Hilarious:Hilarious poor you, double blow, great start to the day
> 
> on the other hand, things can only get better :Smuggrin hope you and your little furries are well x


Thankfully not, as the first page was quite enough. I replied without noticing the date which I usually always check :Eggonface


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