# CIGARETTES GONE UP BY 30-50p A PACKET



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*God this is taking the p*ss. All this will do is encourage people to pop over to France or Belgium to get their **** and tobacco.And if we smokers start doing that how much would this goverment loose out on?*


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## blackdiamond (Feb 5, 2011)

When i was in Costa Blanca a few weeks back cigarettes there were 37.00 euro for 200 so you can imagine the price difference to what people pay over here !

All the government want to do is line there own pockets with all the taxes we pay not just on cigarettes but everything else.

XxX


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Just before Christmas a relative bought Bensons (not copies) in the Caribbean for £9 a 200 sleeve.......go figure!!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Absolutely ridiculous, but i have to say if they hadnt have raised the price on cigarettes there would be someone out there saying they are encouraging smoking, or discouraging stopping. Just a thought afterall if no one smoked the country would lose a fortune, still no need to put them up so much.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> Absolutely ridiculous, but i have to say if they hadnt have raised the price on cigarettes there would be someone out there saying they are encouraging smoking, or discouraging stopping. Just a thought afterall if no one smoked the country would lose a fortune, still no need to put them up so much.


Whatever your views on smoking there are tens of thousands of older people who's only pleasure is a *** and a pint at a working mens club.
A couple of hours at one of these places...very often the only time they can get out the house and mix and chat with others, is now a thing of the past for many.
They don't get a thousand a week pension like the politicians who impose these huge taxes.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Sorry I have to disagree, many people have given uo due to price rises & the limitations on smoking in public so I think this is a good thing.

Smoking related illnesses cost the NHS millions every year so I'm not sure this balances against the taxes paid.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> Sorry I have to disagree, many people have given uo due to price rises & the limitations on smoking in public so I think this is a good thing.
> 
> Smoking related illnesses cost the NHS millions every year so I'm not sure this balances against the taxes paid.


*And if all of us smokers gave up the NHS would be in big trouble.Like it or not smokers pay more than their fair share towards the NHS.*


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *And if all of us smokers gave up the NHS would be in big trouble.Like it or not smokers pay more than their fair share towards the NHS.*


Whilst smoking does generate a large amount of revenue by taxes I'm not sure this does balance up when estimating how much is spent treating people with smoking related diseases by the NHS.

There are various studies which dispute this statement (but I'm sure there are those that would support it!)

Seeing as it is beleieved that smoking is the cause of 1 in 5 deaths & a contributory factor in disabilities then the more people that can give up this additcion the better.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Oh its ok you'll be going to the shop in a mac and sunglasses getting served your cigs in a brown paper bag if they have there way soon... be treated like a leper. 
Im not a big smoker mainly if im stressed im lucky i can take it or leave it but im sick to death of the NHS argument people choose to do a lot of things that get them hurt wether its extreme sports or going abroad for dodgy cheap plastic surgery they dont pay tax on doing stupid things but are given treatment freely. 
Yes id love for the people who chainsmoke 50 **** a day to re-evaluate what there doing to there body but i dont think bullying and segregating them is the answer


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

That is going to make my brand over £7. When is this going to happen? Should I dash out and stock up?

I only smoke Dunhill and there are fewer and fewer places actually stocking them. Even Tesco garage don't sell them any more - I keep getting told I am the only one who buys them. Like they are making these particularl cigarettes just for me? I doubt it somehow.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> Whilst smoking does generate a large amount of revenue by taxes I'm not sure this does balance up when estimating how much is spent treating people with smoking related diseases by the NHS.
> 
> There are various studies which dispute this statement (but I'm sure there are those that would support it!)
> 
> Seeing as it is beleieved that smoking is the cause of 1 in 5 deaths & a contributory factor in disabilities then the more people that can give up this additcion the better.


*The thing is,IF smoking is so bad for people then why don't they ban them? They won't do that because of the money they will loose.
They say,we have a big problem in this country with binge drinking but they haven't raised the price of booze very much.*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> That is going to make my brand over £7. When is this going to happen? Should I dash out and stock up?
> 
> I only smoke Dunhill and there are fewer and fewer places actually stocking them. Even Tesco garage don't sell them any more - I keep getting told I am the only one who buys them. Like they are making these particularl cigarettes just for me? I doubt it somehow.


*I will be going out shortly to get mine and i bet they went up at midnight.*


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Well, I can only see it as a good thing. If it puts my mum off from smoking then it gets the thumbs up from me because I don't want to lose her to cancer


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Verbatim said:


> Well, I can only see it as a good thing. If it puts my mum off from smoking then it gets the thumbs up from me because I don't want to lose her to cancer


*It should be a personal choice we shouldn't be forced into doing anything we don't want to do and at the same time pay through the nose for it.*


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Verbatim said:


> Well, I can only see it as a good thing. If it puts my mum off from smoking then it gets the thumbs up from me because I don't want to lose her to cancer


Unfortunately it probably won't put her off. When they went up to over £6, I declared that was it, I wasn't paying that much. Then gradually it didn't seem so much. The only way these really high prices are going to stop people smoking is if they really, really can't afford it, then instead of giving up because they want to, they end up miserable because they just can't afford it.

If you have never been a smoker, you wouldn't understand, and it is impossible to explain, but most of us enjoy smoking and do not want to give up. We are being forced into it, which is not good. People who really want to give up, usually manage it without the high prices.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *The thing is,IF smoking is so bad for people then why don't they ban them? They won't do that because of the money they will loose.
> They say,we have a big problem in this country with binge drinking but they haven't raised the price of booze very much.*


Because then people would argue their human rights are breached.

Personally I don't think smoking should be banned altogether as it is a personal choice & (most) people do know the risks.

However, I do think it should be made as diffficult as possible & everything done to discourage people from starting & every effort made to help those wanting to quit.

Smoking is incredibly bad for your health, there is no disputing that & I have every sympathy for people who are so reliant on smoking who wish they weren't having smoked myself.


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## SuperSimoholic (Sep 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *The thing is,IF smoking is so bad for people then why don't they ban them? They won't do that because of the money they will loose.
> They say,we have a big problem in this country with binge drinking but they haven't raised the price of booze very much.*


They don't ban it because so many people do it, there would be people smuggling it in and selling and they'd loose loads of money trying to fight the smugglers. A lot of people would probably get hurt. Not to mention all the people who would probably substitute alcohol for smoking.

They don't need to raise the price of drink because more and more people are becoming alcoholics every day so they're paying for themselves. Where as people are giving up smoking all the time.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

*This sort of hike is also no doubt going to raise the amount of dodgy cigarettes being sold that do not conform to what they are allowed to contain

ive copied inserts from a couple of articles below for info*

_Smokers across Herefordshire are being warned they may be inhaling more than they bargained for if they buy dodgy cigs.

The Department of Health, with support from HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) is launching a hard-hitting poster and radio advertising campaign highlighting some of the unpleasant ingredients that could be found in illicit tobacco products.

While the packaging looks almost identical to normal cigarettes, the contents are anything but, with research showing animal droppings, floor-sweepings, insects and even human waste have all been detected._

*and another *

_Bootlegged cigarettes and tobacco are usually brought in large quantities from countries with lower tax and resold.
Counterfeit cigarettes, often made to look like popular UK brands, are cheap and often made of low quality and sometimes extremely harmful ingredients._


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

SuperSimoholic said:


> They don't need to raise the price of drink because more and more people are becoming alcoholics every day so they're paying for themselves. Where as people are giving up smoking all the time.


They do raise the duty on alcohol but the supermarkets swallow the loss and continue to sell alcohol at less than it costs them because it encourages so many people into the shop who then buy other things. The Government is scared to lose the backing of the big supermarket chains so does nothing about it. It is this co-dependancy between the Government and the supermarkets that is causing the alcohol problems, especially in the young.


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## SuperSimoholic (Sep 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *It should be a personal choice we shouldn't be forced into doing anything we don't want to do and at the same time pay through the nose for it.*


You could say the same about heroine and crack, or how about self-mutilation? Not to mention smoking isn't as much of a "personal" choice as everyone makes it out to be, unless you live on your own in a house that's not attatched to another house and only smoke at home, because every time you light a *** you are choosing to have other people breathe your smoke, and no it's not as simple as "moving away" or "leaving the room" because I know from personal experiance that smoke fills the entire room and it also rises. Everytime they smoke downstairs, I get a headache upstairs. It's not fair, I didn't choose to have my lungs filled with second hand smoke but hey, it's "their _personal_ choice"... :glare:

Not to mention 3rd hand smoke, that's the smoke that remains on your hair and clothes after you've had a *** (it's the reason you stink afterwards) and that also contains the same toxicity as 2nd hand smoke, and it lingers on you just as long as smoke lingers in a room, which if my house is anything to go by can be 5-10 mins. So going outside to smoke and then coming in, hugging your children, is almost as bad as smoking in the room.

(P.S. I know I quoted you but I wasn't directing this directly at you, but to all smokers that mistakenly think that smoking only affects them.)


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> Because then people would argue their human rights are breached.
> 
> Personally I don't think smoking should be banned altogether as it is a personal choice & (most) people do know the risks.
> 
> ...


*I feel my humans rights have been taken away where smoking is concernd.Us smokers can no longer go into pubs or any other place without being looked down upon.
And going back to what we cost the NHS,perhaps they should charge people for their treatment if they won't work.Perhaps the idol sods will get off their backsides then.*


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Yep Emmastace and the pubs cannot do that so they are all closing thus less tax for the government from them so theyll put more on cigs as they know theres always going to be income from that.. Not everyone is going to give up.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> Whilst smoking does generate a large amount of revenue by taxes I'm not sure this does balance up when estimating how much is spent treating people with smoking related diseases by the NHS.
> 
> There are various studies which dispute this statement (but I'm sure there are those that would support it!)
> 
> Seeing as it is beleieved that smoking is the cause of 1 in 5 deaths & a contributory factor in disabilities then the more people that can give up this additcion the better.


Then why dont the Government ban smoking????


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *I feel my humans rights have been taken away where smoking is concernd.Us smokers can no longer go into pubs or any other place without being looked down upon.
> And going back to what we cost the NHS,perhaps they should charge people for their treatment if they won't work.Perhaps the idol sods will get off their backsides then.*


But you could argue that non smokers rights are breached every time a smoker lights up in the same room as them. Smokers choose to do so whilst non smokers have no choice about breathing in second hand smoke.


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## 0nyxx (Aug 9, 2008)

well we all knew the 1st things he was gonna make money off big time were cigarettes & alcohol, it's the same every year, he's trying to make out he's helping motorists but it's just a sweetner, reducing it by 1p a litre when it's going up 3p on another tax/vat then postponing the fuel duty tax, but that means next year there will be two rises in fuel duty!


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> But you could argue that non smokers rights are breached every time a smoker lights up in the same room as them. Smokers choose to do so whilst non smokers have no choice about breathing in second hand smoke.


Devils Advocate here.....non-smokers do have a choice. Smoking is banned in enclosed public places, and many non-enclosed. You only need to be near smokers if you choose to be where they can smoke. I can't think of one example where anyone would have no choice. Perhaps you can.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Emmastace said:


> Devils Advocate here.....non-smokers do have a choice. Smoking is banned in enclosed public places, and many non-enclosed. You only need to be near smokers if you choose to be where they can smoke. I can't think of one example where anyone would have no choice. Perhaps you can.


Unfortunately, smoke doesn't stick in the area a smoker is in, it travels outside of set boundaries, for smokers and non-smokers. So no, there isn't much choice, even when you're walking down the street, if someone lights up in front of you, then you are forced to breathe in their smoke, or alter what you were choosing to do, perhaps change your route to your destination. Is that fair?

In any case, it's a moot point, if you have to drive over to France to buy your ciggies, it'll cost you a fortune in petrol!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Emmastace said:


> Devils Advocate here.....non-smokers do have a choice. Smoking is banned in enclosed public places, and many non-enclosed. You only need to be near smokers if you choose to be where they can smoke. I can't think of one example where anyone would have no choice. Perhaps you can.


Agreed that it is that way now due to the ban & again, I think this is a good thing.

Children don't have a choice though & although I don't think it should be illegal to smoke in your own home if you have children I do think parents who smoke should make an effort not to smoke around them or in cars, etc.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

I am not a smoker but I am seriously annoyed about the price hikes on cigarettes and alcohol ( i do like a tipple).  Are we to have nothing to take the edge of our seriously stressful lives??
I mean God forbid we should relaxe after a hard days work towards our lower pensions at older ages, fuel prices, pay freezes AARRGGGH!!! :nono:

The government say its to encourage people to stop smoking, the government will be ****ed if everyone does, look at the tax they would lose! Bunch of morons

If someone is beside me smoking I can move, simple. Are they still trying to ban smoking in cars as well??


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Sorry I have to disagree, many people have given uo due to price rises & the limitations on smoking in public so I think this is a good thing.
> 
> Smoking related illnesses cost the NHS millions every year so I'm not sure this balances against the taxes paid.


I agree with you 100%

As a nurse I saw so much chronic ill health through smoking on the wards and my own mum died from smoking caused illness, so have first hand experiences of seeing the misery and diseases it causes.

Hopefully the increase will see some smokers making an effort to give it up, it can only improve their own health AND help the NHS. So as I see it, a win win situation 

Just my thoughts :smile:

* I know smoking is an addiction and NOT easy to break, but there is a lot of help available to those who wish to stop, though I appreciate not everyone wants to.*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I don't agree with the line 'the government will lose loads of cash if people stop smoking' they will lose some sure, but they will make up for it elsewhere like they always do. Its not like smokers hold society up, we all do they just hit whoever its easiest to target which is smokers and drinkers right now. I mean lets not forget the tax all of us have to cough up for if we want to fill up our cars


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2011)

Starlite said:


> I am not a smoker but I am seriously annoyed about the price hikes on cigarettes and alcohol ( i do like a tipple).  Are we to have nothing to take the edge of our seriously stressful lives??
> I mean God forbid we should relaxe after a hard days work towards our lower pensions at older ages, fuel prices, pay freezes AARRGGGH!!! :nono:
> 
> The government say its to encourage people to stop smoking, the government will be ****ed if everyone does, look at the tax they would lose! Bunch of morons
> ...


If the government REALLY wanted to stop folk smoking they would! By either banning it or increasing the cost outragously , they are nothing but a bunch of conmen! By increasing such as they do (in dribs and drabs) they know full well that most folk will find the extra money from somewhere! even if it means going without summat else! the daily paper for instance!


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> Sorry I have to disagree, many people have given uo due to price rises & the limitations on smoking in public so I think this is a good thing.
> 
> *Smoking related illnesses cost the NHS millions every year* so I'm not sure this balances against the taxes paid.


Whoa hold on!
Why arent drug addicts, self harmers and the obese taxed extra then? Why single out one group and say "oohh you are naughty" :nono:


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2011)

Starlite said:


> Whoa hold on!
> Why arent drug addicts, self harmers and the obese taxed extra then? Why single out one group and say "oohh you are naughty" :nono:


Hey you! watch it! you'll be giving him ideas!

But that said I do tend to agree with you .


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Starlite said:


> Whoa hold on!
> Why arent drug addicts, self harmers and the obese taxed extra then? Why single out one group and say "oohh you are naughty" :nono:


I think its a little unfair to dump self harmers in with that. More than a little unfair, actually.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> If the government REALLY wanted to stop folk smoking they would! By either banning it or increasing the cost outragously , they are nothing but a bunch of conmen! By increasing such as they do (in dribs and drabs) they know full well that most folk will find the extra money from somewhere! even if it means going without summat else! the daily paper for instance!


I can imagine the uproar if they did (oh happy day) ban smoking 
You have to be honest, they are damned whatever they do in many peoples eyes.

Money has to be found somewhere and better from ciggies and alcohol (though I love my wine) than more tax added onto essential items ... in my opinion


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Starlite said:


> Whoa hold on!
> Why arent drug addicts, self harmers and the obese taxed extra then? Why single out one group and say "oohh you are naughty" :nono:


Erm ... beccause smoking is the biggest cause of illnesses/deaths that's why. Drug addicts (even though smokers technically are) don't come close neither do self harmers.

It's not about singling people out at all, it's about cost to the NHS financially but mainly the cost to human life when loved ones die horrible, early deaths unnecessarily.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Starlite said:


> Whoa hold on!
> Why arent drug addicts, self harmers and the obese taxed extra then? Why single out one group and say "oohh you are naughty" :nono:


What would they add extra tax on? Illegal drugs? Razor blades? Chocolate?

:crazy:


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> I can imagine the uproar if they did (oh happy day) ban smoking
> You have to be honest, they are damned whatever they do in many peoples eyes.
> 
> Money has to be found somewhere and better from ciggies and alcohol (though I love my wine) than more tax added onto essential items ... in my opinion


But still they seem to be wasting momeny elsewhere! The Libian saga for instance don't come cheap! Not to mention the other war we are in! 
We are a part of EU then why does our fuel, alcohol and cigarettes always have to be amongst to the most expensive.

Then there is our council tax - look at the cost of that next to some EU countries. And it will be hard to convince me that we have better services here, maybe we did oneday - but I think we are now going backwards


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

cigs cheap here....but I do not smoke really..what a waste......


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I think its a little unfair to dump self harmers in with that. More than a little unfair, actually.


As a self harmer myself I dont think its unfair. I have taken up valueable time because I chose to hurt or try and kill myself, whats the difference compared to smoking, both are technically self inflicted



Amethyst said:


> What would they add extra tax on? Illegal drugs? Razor blades? Chocolate?
> 
> :crazy:


 Yes to all of the above and razors arent everyone's method of choice btw.
Addicts who OD, give them a bill as they are going to do with migrants or take money from their benefits.
Fat people, make them contribute to their gastric bands they all "so desperately need" through their wages or benefits (£5 a week aint much but its something). Tax fast food joints, you know its gonna harm you PAY EXTRA THEN. simples 

Heart disease is more of a killer than most smoking related illnesses but its considered too politically incorrect to call people on the reasons for it.
Smokers are being singled out, if you want to tax all the "big killers" which cost the NHS then tax them all. Were all for equality in the UK arent we?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> But still they seem to be wasting momeny elsewhere!


I guess that is always going to be subjective and seldom black and white 

While money is needed, and will be taken somehow, I still think it's better reaped from "luxuries" rather than essentials 

In my opinion.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Starlite said:


> Yes to all of the above and razors arent everyone's method of choice btw.


Yes, while nursing I came to realise that, people can be very inventive


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Im sorry but from a purely selfish point of view I would be happy if they raised the tax on **** even more. Also hiked it up on alcohol and any food stuff with over a certain amount of fat or sugar!!
I just hate watching people die of smoking related illnesses. I dont mind the drink ones (I have no problem with someone puking up blood or crapping it out until they die) but smoking?? They tend to grab onto you as they gasp about how they cant breathe and you cant do a thing for them. Just have to sit and watch as they slowly suffocate to death.. Freaks me out every time...
So I wouldnt care if we turned into a nanny state, or the government was just doing it for the money if it means I have to watch less people die from preventable illnesses.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Yes, while nursing I came to realise that, people can be very inventive


Sadly so hun, are you still in nursing? Off topic but Im hoping to go in the next few years and do it


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> I
> I just hate watching people die of smoking related illnesses. I dont mind the drink ones (I have no problem with someone puking up blood or crapping it out until they die)


Do you actually realise that alcoholism is an illness


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Starlite said:


> As a self harmer myself I dont think its unfair. I have taken up valueable time because I chose to hurt or try and kill myself, whats the difference compared to smoking, both are technically self inflicted
> 
> Yes to all of the above and razors arent everyone's method of choice btw.
> Addicts who OD, give them a bill as they are going to do with migrants or take money from their benefits.
> Fat people, make them contribute to their gastric bands they all "so desperately need" through their wages or benefits (£5 a week aint much but its something). Tax fast food joints, you know its gonna harm you PAY EXTRA THEN. simples


In terms of gastric bands I believe they are given out too easily in lots of cases anyway so my opinion on that is probably irrelevant.

Re the first part, the self harmers I know in comparison with the smokers have a much more serious problem and often need a lot of help in a mental capacity. I don't know anyone who smokes to get away from things, drink yes, but not smoke. Everyone I know who smokes does it because they enjoy it and I see nothing wrong with that.

You are not more entitled to help just because you buy items with a high tax on them 

If you give people who OD a bill, they will do better and kill themselves next time. Its not just addicts who OD. You say you are a self harmer yet you would seriously kick someone like that when they are down :blink:

IMHO self harmers need help they cannot always ask for help sometimes its them saying 'look I need help' because they can't talk about it.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Starlite said:


> Sadly so hun, are you still in nursing? Off topic but Im hoping to go in the next few years and do it


No got out of it a few years ago 

I was a RN, loved it, especially my training and years in maternity. Times change though and I left to do agency and BUPA work, great money but with agency, you never know where you will be next! Kept you on your toes mind 

Good luck if you go ahead, so many specialties now and nurses can really go places if they want to


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> In terms of gastric bands I believe they are given out too easily in lots of cases anyway so my opinion on that is probably irrelevant.
> 
> Re the first part, the self harmers I know in comparison with the smokers have a much more serious problem and often need a lot of help in a mental capacity. I don't know anyone who smokes to get away from things, drink yes, but not smoke. Everyone I know who smokes does it because they enjoy it and I see nothing wrong with that.
> 
> ...


You can garuntee they will "just kill themselves next time"? I was thinking along the lines of smackheads but people who OD as a cry for help dont often do it more than once.
I am not "kicking someone when they are down", the fact is I wasted time which could have been spent on someone who needed physical treatment. I feel quilty about it to this day, maybe Im in the minority that way.
You arent going to get psych help in A+E while you are being stitched up which is what most self harmers need.

The bit in bold Im not sure what you mean hun, sorry


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Do you actually realise that alcoholism is an illness


Well, after working in gastroenterology in an area with a high rate of alcoholics for 12 years I think I do. And I can count on one hand the amount of people who have successfully given up drinking..


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

poohdog said:


> Whatever your views on smoking there are tens of thousands of older people who's only pleasure is a *** and a pint at a working mens club.
> A couple of hours at one of these places...very often the only time they can get out the house and mix and chat with others, is now a thing of the past for many.
> They don't get a thousand a week pension like the politicians who impose these huge taxes.


And The price of a pints gone up so they'll not even be able to afford this soon and they have to go outside for their smoke this Country is getting Crap.

What REALLY pissed me off was when They bought the no-smoking in pub ban out THEY STILL Could smoke in The House of Commons Bar it makes me sick one rule for them another for us...We are losing our pubs left right and centre As long as it don't affect them they don't give a Sh**te


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> Well, after working in gastroenterology in an area with a high rate of alcoholics for 12 years I think I do. And I can count on one hand the amount of people who have successfully given up drinking..


Then PLEASE tell me with an attitude (of what appears) total and utter contempt and uncaring, that you are NOT a nurse working in there 

If you are ... Goddess help the profession and your patients ...


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Starlite said:


> You can garuntee they will "just kill themselves next time"? I was thinking along the lines of smackheads but people who OD as a cry for help dont often do it more than once.
> I am not "kicking someone when they are down", the fact is I wasted time which could have been spent on someone who needed physical treatment. I feel quilty about it to this day, maybe Im in the minority that way.
> You arent going to get psych help in A+E while you are being stitched up which is what most self harmers need.
> 
> The bit in bold Im not sure what you mean hun, sorry


Can't see anything in bold if you meant something in my post 

I just feel that self harmers need help in some way shape or form more than smokers do (not medically I mean in you have to stop this now kind of thing). As in I think a lot of self harmers need to talk about it whereas to smokers that would be pretty patronising I imagine. People who smoke are usually aware of what they are doing and know the problems they may encounter later in life, from the self harmers I know they struggle to look further ahead than next week  I think people who smoke are in *general* in a more rational mind set than those who hurt themselves on purpose. If a smoker chooses to smoke I respect their decision and with the people I know am pretty confident they have weighed up the pros and cons. I don't feel people who self harm are always very capable of doing that.

If you were to tax self harmers I think many would hide that they do it even more = less chance of help for them.

ETA: I just found the bolded bit 

Basically when you said tax people who are obese/drug addicts/self harmers, I got the impression that was to make the tax fairer sort of thing, like everyone pays if they do something bad. I think everyone should be entitled to help no matter who pays more tax due to choosing to smoke an those items carrying more tax etc if that makes sense?  Smokers get shot in the foot because its simply the easiest people to target. Drinking less so because its only a problem if you drink excessively and not one unit a month type of thing. Not saying its right but I just think if anyone needs help they should get it regardless of any taxes being paid etc.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Then PLEASE tell me with an attitude (of what appears) total and utter contempt and uncaring, that you are NOT a nurse working in there
> 
> If you are ... Goddess help the profession and your patients ...


I am a nurse, thanks very much!! And my patients dont need a goddess to help them coz they have me.. I am a wonderful patient advocate and have no complaints (was called an angel the other day in fact!!).
Why do you think as an advocate for health in general I should be sugar coating the effects of smoking and drinking on a pet forum???


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> I am a nurse, thanks very much!! And my patients dont need a goddess to help them coz they have me.. I am a wonderful patient advocate and have no complaints (was called an angel the other day in fact!!).
> Why do you think as an advocate for health in general I should be sugar coating the effects of smoking and drinking on a pet forum???


I am very sorry to hear that you are a nurse ...

Nobody would expect you to sugar coat the effects of alcohol addiction, least of all me. But for YOU to say as a Registerered Nurse ~

"I just hate watching people die of smoking related illnesses. I dont mind the drink ones (I have no problem with someone puking up blood or crapping it out until they die)"

I think it is a disgrace to the profession and disturbing that people with your attitude towards those suffering from an illness, are employed in our hospitals :frown2:

In fact it is rather disturbing ...


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## SuperSimoholic (Sep 16, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> I am very sorry to hear that you are a nurse ...
> 
> Nobody would expect you to sugar coat the effects of alcohol addiction, least of all me. But for YOU to say as a Registerered Nurse ~
> 
> ...


Maybe de-humanising helps her cope? I know I couldn't handle that sort of stuff all day without detaching myself at least a little.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Do you actually realise that alcoholism is an illness


Surely any addiction can be called an illness. Alcoholics were not born that way, any more than nicotine addicts and gambling addicts. It is an acquired illness, through over indulgence, just like anything else. There are people addicted to painkillers, probably through no fault of their own, and they are not classed as having an illness.


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## WeimyLady (Jan 3, 2010)

I've got a solution...stop smoking?

Ghastly habit.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

SuperSimoholic said:


> Maybe de-humanising helps her cope? I know I couldn't handle that sort of stuff all day without detaching myself at least a little.


De-humanising 

The last think a nurse should EVER do is ""de-humanise" her patients, the day that happens she is no nurse 

**** they did that in the concentration camps :cryin:

While it is important to be able to ""distance yourself" from your work when you need to, it shouldn't mean you should be able to say, about your patients ~

"I dont mind the drink ones (I have no problem with someone puking up blood or crapping it out until they die)"

Personally it beggars belief ...


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## SuperSimoholic (Sep 16, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Surely any addiction can be called an illness. Alcoholics were not born that way, any more than nicotine addicts and gambling addicts. It is an acquired illness, through over indulgence, just like anything else. There are people addicted to painkillers, probably through no fault of their own, and they are not classed as having an illness.


I was told that someone who is alcoholic can go into shock if they go "cold turkey" because their bodies are so used the the alcohol in their blood that when it's gone it things there's something vital missing? I'm sot sure, but that's what I was told.

Alcoholism, to me, seems much harder and much more dangerous than a *** adciction. Or weed addiction, and even heroine addiction in some cases (depending on the person and the type of drunk they are).


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> De-humanising
> 
> The last think a nurse should EVER do is ""de-humanise" her patients, the day that happens she is no nurse
> 
> ...


I think that is a bit over the top, actually. The nazis never went into the profession because they cared in the first place.

All Janice said when she started this thread was that cigarettes had gone up by 30 to 50p, yet of course it has turned into an anti-smoking campaign.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Alcoholics were not born that way


Research has shown (take it or leave it) and many experts believe that a percentage of people are actually genetically programmed for this illness ... So yes, they were born "that way" unfortunately ...


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

TBH I have to admit I've no idea when/what/where the 30-50p increase has come from will be interested to find out and see when it comes into place! Not a small amount at all.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> I think that is a bit over the top, actually. The nazis never went into the profession because they cared in the first place.
> 
> All Janice said when she started this thread was that cigarettes had gone up by 30 to 50p, yet of course it has turned into an anti-smoking campaign.


Agreed! there are many things people do with regards to addictions - food,drugs,drink,to name but a few where its a drain on the NHS and costs money! - ciggies are just an easy target for a quick money fix for the government if it wasnt they would ban it! simple as!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> TBH I have to admit I've no idea when/what/where the 30-50p increase has come from will be interested to find out and see when it comes into place! Not a small amount at all.


It's certainly going to mount up for those who can go through a packet a day or so ... But there are worse things they could have added it too.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Research has shown (take it or leave it) and many experts believe that a percentage of people are actually genetically programmed for this illness ... So yes, they were born "that way" unfortunately ...


I do agree with you as my mother was a alcoholic and her mother and as far back as I know it was in the family,as for the ciggies going up I was told once that dont try and give up while you are stressed which alot of people are now,dont think unless you have smoked you would understand,I have never had a drink of alcohol in my life so dont understand why people cant give that up


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> I am a nurse, thanks very much!! And my patients dont need a goddess to help them coz they have me.. I am a wonderful patient advocate and have no complaints (was called an angel the other day in fact!!).
> Why do you think as an advocate for health in general I should be sugar coating the effects of smoking and drinking on a pet forum???


I hope you never have to watch a loved one die from it hun. My dad was alcohol dependant. He went into hospital with pneumonia and DTs on the Tuesday, scanned at the weekend only to find massive inoperable tumours on his liver and died the following Wednesday, Im still in shock almost 3yrs later.
He was a good man who claimed no benefits, was never drunk and worked from the age of 15 and never had a sick day - he asked the doctor for a sick not so we could give it to his employer as he lay dying as he was so concerned with letting people down and didnt want his boss to think he was "at it" he said.
My mum is a recovering alcholic who is receiving help thankfully otherwise Id kick her up the ar$e.

From working in care homes I know you can develop a sort of black humour about it all but to say you dont mind seeing someone dying, well, that's a bit disturbing imo. EVERY death I have seen has affected me, a life is a life.

Sorry all, back to the thread, when does the tax hike come in??


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

suewhite said:


> I do agree with you as my mother was a alcoholic and her mother and as far back as I know it was in the family,as for the ciggies going up I was told once that dont try and give up while you are stressed which alot of people are now,dont think unless you have smoked you would understand,I have never had a drink of alcohol in my life so dont understand why people cant give that up


Sorry to hear about your mum and family, it's sadly not an unfamiliar story, so good that you were able to break this legacy *Hugs*

Hopefully the government will continue to offer help to those who see this increase as an incentive to stop smoking, as you say it's not easy for people.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> "I just hate watching people die of smoking related illnesses. I dont mind the drink ones (I have no problem with someone puking up blood or crapping it out until they die)"
> 
> I think it is a disgrace to the profession and disturbing that people with your attitude towards those suffering from an illness, are employed in our hospitals :frown2:
> 
> In fact it is rather disturbing ...


Ah ha, I see where the problem lies. I didnt mean it in an emotional sense. Most nurses have a problem with something. Some dont like blood, others vomit. I find myself heaving where sputum is involved. I have 'no problem' being around blood and can keep up a sympathetic, comforting presence in the face on it. I didnt mean I dont care if someone is dying horribly!!
If that still isnt good enough then....well, frankly I just wouldnt care! I know I am a damned good nurse. I will bend over backwards to ensure people are comfortable, pain free and not stressed and will defend their rights as if they were my own mother or father so I go home every day happy in the knowledge I have done my upmost.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> Ah ha, I see where the problem lies. I didnt mean it in an emotional sense. Most nurses have a problem with something. Some dont like blood, others vomit. I find myself heaving where sputum is involved. I have 'no problem' being around blood and can keep up a sympathetic, comforting presence in the face on it. I didnt mean I dont care if someone is dying horribly!!
> If that still isnt good enough then....well, frankly I just wouldnt care! I know I am a damned good nurse. I will bend over backwards to ensure people are comfortable, pain free and not stressed and will defend their rights as if they were my own mother or father so I go home every day happy in the knowledge I have done my upmost.


aaah so you mean you've got a strong stomach, well that does kinda help in your profession


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> Ah ha, I see where the problem lies. I didnt mean it in an emotional sense. Most nurses have a problem with something. Some dont like blood, others vomit. I find myself heaving where sputum is involved. I have 'no problem' being around blood and can keep up a sympathetic, comforting presence in the face on it. I didnt mean I dont care if someone is dying horribly!!
> If that still isnt good enough then....well, frankly I just wouldnt care! I know I am a damned good nurse. I will bend over backwards to ensure people are comfortable, pain free and not stressed and will defend their rights as if they were my own mother or father so I go home every day happy in the knowledge I have done my upmost.


Talk about "back pedalling"


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Talk about "back pedalling"


As I said I have no need to justify myself if I know Im doing a good job!!
Just because I try to use shock value on line to make a point doesnt mean I am like that IRL! If you or a member of your family have been nursed by me and have a complaint then by all means lets hear it!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Ok update,just been and ot my **** from Asda,they were the same price as last week so i asked the girl serving me when they will be going up.She told me they should have gone up last night but they are selling what they've still got at the same price then they will go up.So to save myself £5 next week i got 400 **** this week.*


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok update,just been and ot my **** from Asda,they were the same price as last week so i asked the girl serving me when they will be going up.She told me they should have gone up last night but they are selling what they've still got at the same price then they will go up.So to save myself £5 next week i got 400 **** this week.*


I just rushed across to Tesco and they were clearing the shelf of ciggies and putting them back at the new price


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

What about roll ups??? (most of the chavs around here roll their own). Although some people just hang around bins and pick the butts out and reroll their own!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


suewhite said:



I just rushed across to Tesco and they were clearing the shelf of ciggies and putting them back at the new price

Click to expand...

Thats typical of Tesco, whats their moto," every little helps"? yeah right and its not for the customers.



catz4m8z said:



What about roll ups??? (most of the chavs around here roll their own). Although some people just hang around bins and pick the butts out and reroll their own!!

Click to expand...

I know rolling tobaco is going up but didn't check the price as i don't use it..........yet lol
*


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

tescos are trying to help you to quit "every little helps" could also be taken as they're making it too expensive for you to keep upping your chance of dying of some horrible smoking related disease...seems they do care about their customers after all.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

owieprone said:


> tescos are trying to help you to quit "every little helps" could also be taken as they're making it too expensive for you to keep upping your chance of dying of some horrible smoking related disease...seems they do care about their customers after all.


*But i don't want their help i enjoy my smokes,and lets face it we are all going to die of something some day.*


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

I personally think its a good thing they are going up in all honesty i think they should put the tax that is in the petrol onto the ****... people choose to smoke people have no choice but to work so why should we be paying silly prices for petrol?


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *But i don't want their help i enjoy my smokes,and lets face it we are all going to die of something some day.*


i'd rather it was quick and relatively painless tbh. emphysema and cancer don't float my boat at all.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


harley bear said:



I personally think its a good thing they are going up in all honesty i think they should put the tax that is in the petrol onto the ****... people choose to smoke people have no choice but to work so why should we be paying silly prices for petrol?

Click to expand...

I'd rather see them put it on petrol then we would at least have a fairer standing.



owieprone said:



i'd rather it was quick and relatively painless tbh. emphysema and cancer don't float my boat at all.


Click to expand...

Thats the trouble though with death,we don't get to choose how we go.
I have had 4 family members die of cancer,but only 1 of those was a smoker.*


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Research has shown (take it or leave it) and many experts believe that a percentage of people are actually genetically programmed for this illness ... So yes, they were born "that way" unfortunately ...


Strange that, as my father was an alcoholic until he was diagnosed with diabetes. It was a long, hard struggle for him to give drinking, but I have three brothers, and none of us drink alcohol. Neither was my grandfather a drinker.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> I'd rather see them put it on petrol then we would at least have a fairer standing.
> 
> ...


yep but i can choose to a point how NOT to go.. and increasing my chances of something by smoking isn't a good idea.

genetics and accidents aside there's alot i can NOT die of.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

catz4m8z said:


> What about roll ups??? (most of the chavs around here roll their own). Although some people just hang around bins and pick the butts out and reroll their own!!


Theres a bus stop opposite my house with a bin just going to have a rake through:tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie:


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

I get my cigarrettes from abroad, luckily I know someone who lives there and get them sent over, which yes i know its illiegal as im not paying tax, but i pay enough tax on NI, working tax, council tax, car tax. soon they will be taxing the bloody sun!!


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Okay so just a quick question to all you smokers.

If you have such a problem with the price going up & are so hell bent on carrying on smoking.... why don't you just try to CUT DOWN on what you're smoking? That way you are keeping your beloved dirty habit but will also save money by buying less ****?


I KNOW it's not as easy as just cutting down straight away, but surely it would be much easier than stopping?


Serious question


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

Id much rather enjoy life by having a cigi, because i could get hit by a bus on my way home! 

Id feel a lot worse being hit by a bus and having given up smoking because i know my last thought will be "god i need a cigarette now" :lol:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

owieprone said:


> yep but i can choose to a point how NOT to go.. and increasing my chances of something by smoking isn't a good idea.
> 
> genetics and accidents aside there's alot i can NOT die of.


*In everyday living we take chances and thats a fact.Also i could argue that anyone driving or going on aeroplanes pollute the air that i have to breath,but will people stop these things?
Surely a bit of give and take is the answer.*


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Verbatim said:


> Okay so just a quick question to all you smokers.
> 
> If you have such a problem with the price going up & are so hell bent on carrying on smoking.... why don't you just try to CUT DOWN on what you're smoking? That way you are keeping your beloved dirty habit but will also save money by buying less ****?
> 
> ...


Serious answer: Speaking personally, I can only cut down with the aid of a nicotine patch, and I am not sure you are supposed to smoke at all with those. It is actually sometimes harder to cut down, than it is to give up completely. I had a friend years ago who went from smoking 20 a day to just smoking in the evenings and weekends, to just weekends, to just bank holidays, until eventually it was only christmas. I could never do that. I started to cut right down a couple of weeks ago, got away with only five the first day, then gradually it built up again. If the **** are in the house it is hard to remember you are supposed to be cutting down.

I found it helpful to keep them in a kitchen cupboard, so that I had to actually get up and go and find them, rather than having them sitting next to me on the sofa.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Verbatim said:


> Okay so just a quick question to all you smokers.
> 
> If you have such a problem with the price going up & are so hell bent on carrying on smoking.... why don't you just try to CUT DOWN on what you're smoking? That way you are keeping your beloved dirty habit but will also save money by buying less ****?
> 
> ...


*The first and main answer is,it was unfair to slap so much tax on one group of people.
Secondly some of us don't want to give up smoking,because we actualy enjoy it.*


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *In everyday living we take chances and thats a fact.Also i could argue that anyone driving or going on aeroplanes pollute the air that i have to breath,but will people stop these things?
> Surely a bit of give and take is the answer.*


To be fair people have to drive to get to work and there will always be public transport polluting the air even if people didnt drive.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *The first and main answer is,it was unfair to slap so much tax on one group of people.
> Secondly some of us don't want to give up smoking,because we actualy enjoy it.*


That's not what I said. If you'd read my post correctly you'd have noticed I asked about people cutting down on the number of cigarettes they smoke in order to save money, NOT stopping smoking.

You could also say it's unfair to put up petrol prices as that affects drivers, who are also one group of people. Drinkers are one group of people. You could argue that putting any tax up is unfair because one way or another it is gonna affect some 'group of people' or other. I am sure people who drink also enjoy that and many people who drive also enjoy that.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Verbatim said:


> That's not what I said. If you'd read my post correctly you'd have noticed I asked about people cutting down on the number of cigarettes they smoke in order to save money, NOT stopping smoking.
> 
> You could also say it's unfair to put up petrol prices as that affects drivers, who are also one group of people. Drinkers are one group of people. You could argue that putting any tax up is unfair because one way or another it is gonna affect some 'group of people' or other. I am sure people who drink also enjoy that and many people who drive also enjoy that.


*Ok, i don't want to cut down.As for the tax going on the petrol or anything else,it would have been a fairer way of doing things.*


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok, i don't want to cut down.As for the tax going on the petrol or anything else,it would have been a fairer way of doing things.*


well if you don't want to cut down and don't want to stop, then there's no point complaining really as those are the only things you can actually do about it and if you don't want to make the effort to do either then you will just have to pay the prices.

It's just a given with the budget now that **** and booze will go up in price so I can't understand the surprise/shock.

Perhaps all you smokers need to start stocking up for the year every February


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Hey, just do what I do!!
Dont drink, smoke, drive a car, or use aeroplanes!!!
sorted..:thumbup1:

(course if they suddenly start taxing pet supplies up the whazoo then Im screwed!!LOL):blink:


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## AnimalLoverSian (Mar 23, 2011)

I can only see upsides of it to be honest

But when it goes up, it will encourage my dad to stop, which will be so much better for him (he has bad breathing problems and his teeth are disgusting)
Although nothing will stop my aunty - smoking 50 a day 

I'm just sharing MY opinion on it

And also I am suffering so bad because of smokers, I have a chest infection atm, this is my third and one time it put me in hospital.

It might give you joy and happiness.. but to me it gives me pain and suffering


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Verbatim said:


> well if you don't want to cut down and don't want to stop, then there's no point complaining really as those are the only things you can actually do about it and if you don't want to make the effort to do either then you will just have to pay the prices.
> 
> It's just a given with the budget now that **** and booze will go up in price so I can't understand the surprise/shock.
> 
> Perhaps all you smokers need to start stocking up for the year every February


*Ok i'll throw this into the debate.How can it be fair or right that my hubby and many more like him,go to work pays his dues and then gets hit again with this tax.But someone on the dole who chooses not to work can still afford to smoke,drink ect.Also i don't think anyone was suprised that smokers would be hit in the budget,we always are.But not as much as this.*


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

Get yerelves down the Barras, there's been a shifty looking guy shouting
"GET YUR TABACCA! *cough* and ****" since I can remember, mibbe he can help


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok i'll throw this into the debate.How can it be fair or right that my hubby and many more like him,go to work pays his dues and then gets hit again with this tax.But someone on the dole who chooses not to work can still afford to smoke,drink ect.Also i don't think anyone was suprised that smokers would be hit in the budget,we always are.But not as much as this.*


 When my oh was out of work we were forced to go on jsa and we could barely afford to live never mind smoke! 
The tax should be put on the **** and taken off the petrol because as i have already said smoking is a choice but people need to get to work. 
It might be unfair that people have these taxes lumped on them but theres a choice not to smoke.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok i'll throw this into the debate.How can it be fair or right that my hubby and many more like him,go to work pays his dues and then gets hit again with this tax.But someone on the dole who chooses not to work can still afford to smoke,drink ect.Also i don't think anyone was suprised that smokers would be hit in the budget,we always are.But not as much as this.*


Sad fact is, what in life is fair? Nothing, really. The reason they are trying to lay off petrol is because having whacked VAT up lots of families are having to be that bit more careful with their spending many can't afford more to go on petrol to get to work etc. Some would say its better to tax a luxury than something which is fast becoming a necessity. People have said they enjoy smoking, I know lots who don't really enjoy driving but they do it to get to work etc else they have no job.

I'm afraid its a no brainer for me. What do we do if things are tight? We cut down on our luxuries, its just the way it goes sadly and as a country we have to lump the debt we are in and try to dig our way out of it.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> Sad fact is, what in life is fair? Nothing, really. The reason they are trying to lay off petrol is because having whacked VAT up lots of families are having to be that bit more careful with their spending many can't afford more to go on petrol to get to work etc. Some would say its better to tax a luxury than something which is fast becoming a necessity. People have said they enjoy smoking, I know lots who don't really enjoy driving but they do it to get to work etc else they have no job.
> 
> I'm afraid its a no brainer for me. What do we do if things are tight? We cut down on our luxuries, its just the way it goes sadly and as a country we have to lump the debt we are in and try to dig our way out of it.


*Oh don't get me wrong,i know life isn't fair,as i always told my kids.And yes smoking is a luxury but its one that is paid for by working for it.I'm not hard done by,by any means but i do like to see fair play.*


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok i'll throw this into the debate.How can it be fair or right that my hubby and many more like him,go to work pays his dues and then gets hit again with this tax.But someone on the dole who chooses not to work can still afford to smoke,drink ect.Also i don't think anyone was suprised that smokers would be hit in the budget,we always are.But not as much as this.*


No that isn't fair or right at all, I totally agree with you there. I am 20 years old, I finished a full time college course last June and by July I was working full time - not in my chosen career but I need to save up for other things (my own house, my own business ect). I have been working since the week I left school at 16 and I have never, ever been without a job since - even whilst at college, where I was studying monday-friday and working every saturday & sunday without fail. I had not a single day off in 3, sometimes 4 months between college holidays.

I think it's disgusting too that some folk can sit at home all day drinking and smoking without needing to work but unfortunately that's how things are. Maybe the government need to work on cutting the scroungers benefits and giving them the absoloute BARE minimum to live on. And I am not talking about those who have generally fallen on hard times, i'm talking about those who play the system and sponge.

However, it doesn't change my views on rising taxes for **** and booze. Perhaps making the spongers pay through the roof for these luxuries will kick them into getting some sort of work so that they really can afford it.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Verbatim said:


> No that isn't fair or right at all, I totally agree with you there. I am 20 years old, I finished a full time college course last June and by July I was working full time - not in my chosen career but I need to save up for other things (my own house, my own business ect). I have been working since the week I left school at 16 and I have never, ever been without a job since - even whilst at college, where I was studying monday-friday and working every saturday & sunday without fail. I had not a single day off in 3, sometimes 4 months between college holidays.
> 
> I think it's disgusting too that some folk can sit at home all day drinking and smoking without needing to work but unfortunately that's how things are. Maybe the government need to work on cutting the scroungers benefits and giving them the absoloute BARE minimum to live on. And I am not talking about those who have generally fallen on hard times, i'm talking about those who play the system and sponge.
> 
> However, it doesn't change my views on rising taxes for **** and booze. Perhaps making the spongers pay through the roof for these luxuries will kick them into getting some sort of work so that they really can afford it.


*The part of your post i've high lighted confuses me,or have i misread it? I can sit at home and drink and smoke and why shouldn't i?*


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## SuperSimoholic (Sep 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *The part of your post i've high lighted confuses me,or have i misread it? I can sit at home and drink and smoke and why shouldn't i?*


I think she means sit at home instead of working.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *The part of your post i've high lighted confuses me,or have i misread it? I can sit at home and drink and smoke and why shouldn't i?*


did you see the bit about 'without having to work'?

I was referring to the scrotes out there.... thought that would have been clear by the point I went on to make in the rest of my post.... or did you not read the rest 

Just read the last sentence of the paragraph which you highlighted the text in - that should sum it up nicely.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Verbatim said:


> did you see the bit about 'without having to work'?
> 
> I was referring to the scrotes out there.... thought that would have been clear by the point I went on to make in the rest of my post.... or did you not read the rest
> 
> Just read the last sentence of the paragraph which you highlighted the text in - that should sum it up nicely.


*I did read your post,and yes i read all the posts not parts of them.Thats why i questioned it.
"I think it's disgusting too that some folk can sit at home all day drinking and smoking without needing to work but unfortunately that's how things are." is what you wrote.
But i won't nit pick.*


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## jessiegirl (Apr 24, 2009)

as much as i disagree with smoking- i really do hate this nanny state we are in. And its very unfair to put the prices up just to try and stop people from doing things ie smoke, drive cars etc....


i say if people wanna smoke ,let them (just dont do it round me ta  )

its becoming ridiculous now...petrol as well..oh no wait a min , 1 p was taken off yesterday BIG DEAL :

this country sucks


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2011)

I dont smoke so it doesnt affect me so i have opinion on it really, but i agree that just like tobacco and cigarettes, petrol is so expensive and will only get worse and that does affect me. 

So i totally understand your frustration and anger janice.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Oh don't get me wrong,i know life isn't fair,as i always told my kids.And yes smoking is a luxury but its one that is paid for by working for it.I'm not hard done by,by any means but i do like to see fair play.*


No doubt if it was something I really liked I would be one of the more frustrated ones, but its just petrol that gets me at the minute luckily. Give it time though


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I did read your post,and yes i read all the posts not parts of them.Thats why i questioned it.
> "I think it's disgusting too that some folk can sit at home all day drinking and smoking without needing to work but unfortunately that's how things are." is what you wrote.
> But i won't nit pick.*


yep that's what I wrote. I don't what was wrong with it?


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

harley bear said:


> I personally think its a good thing they are going up in all honesty i think they should put the tax that is in the petrol onto the ****... people choose to smoke people have no choice but to work so why should we be paying silly prices for petrol?


I would second that 

I think people are perhaps so upset because they are already spending so much on cigarettes as it is? How much are they for twenty now? Seems to be about £5 to £6.50? That's s a lot to spend if you smoke 20 a day or even 10 I guess, so adding 50p will soon mount up 

I like a bottle of wine and usually have one a week at say £6.00, so not too worried about any increase...... but if I was already spending that a day on wine :blush2: I would DEFINITELY be trying to give it up :nono:


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

cheekyscrip said:


> cigs cheap here....but I do not smoke really..what a waste......


You could buy & ship them to Britian, in plain wrappers of course, if you know any smokers here & make a fortune.:biggrin::biggrin::thumbup1: (Joke!)


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> What about roll ups??? (most of the chavs around here roll their own). Although some people just hang around bins and pick the butts out and reroll their own!!


Hey! I roll my own & I am certainly not a Chav. Whatever that means, but it sounds sinister!?:
And I use proper tobacco bought honestly too & it's a lot cheaper way of smoking than buying ready made cigs, even if the risks are the same.


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Erm ... beccause smoking is the biggest cause of illnesses/deaths that's why. *Drug addicts (even though smokers technically are) don't come close neither do self harmers.*
> 
> It's not about singling people out at all, it's about cost to the NHS financially but mainly the cost to human life when loved ones die horrible, early deaths unnecessarily.


God I hate trying to be the voice of reason/devils advocat here.....but I can't help myself........drug addicts may not cost the NHS as much as smokers but they do cost more in other ways.......police time, court time, insurance increases after burglaries etc. They also cost all sorts of hidden costs through accidents and so forth. Did you also forget that because of the illegality they don't put anything back in by their habit. I personally don't feel that a lot of smokers have any more choice in what they do than a self harmer does. They are both based on a bodily drive to some extent. It is unfair to target smokers when they compensate the country. Other groups mentioned do not. Do we also need to mention the unemployed, single parents, the disabled, anti-social behaviour and any other group that cost the country and therefore each and every one of us money, personal grief or community resources. Ok some don't have choices but some do. 
This could be argued all day.
BTW -I'm not actually a smoker but my business has been affected by the smoking ban.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Valanita said:


> Hey! I roll my own & I am certainly not a Chav. Whatever that means, but it sounds sinister!?:
> And I use proper tobacco bought honestly too & it's a lot cheaper way of smoking than buying ready made cigs, even if the risks are the same.


My friend rolls her own too and is not a chav either 

Nor does she scavenge dustbins looking for cigarette ends


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2011)

catz4m8z said:


> What about roll ups??? (most of the chavs around here roll their own). Although some people just hang around bins and pick the butts out and reroll their own!!


Well i am glad i dont live where you do then. Sounds great!!


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I do think alot of smokers would stop if they could but unless you've smoked you could never understand the cravings you get,a friend of mine stopped 5 years ago and still says they fancy a ciggy at timesthis is a list of things I've tried

Patches
hypnosis
Ecig
will power
Herbal cigs:tongue_smilie:

No Luck so far


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

suewhite said:


> I do think alot of smokers would stop if they could but unless you've smoked you could never understand the cravings you get,a friend of mine stopped 5 years ago and still says they fancy a ciggy at timesthis is a list of things I've tried
> 
> Patches
> hypnosis
> ...


My mum was dying of emphysema and would switch her oxygen off to have a cigarette 

She was only 61 when she died but had been poorly for years. I'll be honest I hate cigarettes and hate what they do to people's health. But freewill and all that ...

Hope you find something that helps you to stop if that is what you wish


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> My mum was dying of emphysema and would switch her oxygen off to have a cigarette
> 
> She was only 61 when she died but had been poorly for years. I'll be honest I hate cigarettes and hate what they do to people's health. But freewill and all that ...
> 
> Hope you find something that helps you to stop if that is what you wish


I developed emphysemia when i was 21 years old through smoking, i nearly died in the ambulance, had to kick the front door down to get to me as collapsed in the hall. Was very very scary, was in hospital for 10 days and when the doctors came to see me and said that if i carried on smoking i would be dead in 5 years. The look on my dad's face i knew they were being serious. I never smoked again.

But i still suffer with bad asthma now because of the smoking, and will only get worse as i get older.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

KathrynH said:


> I developed emphysemia when i was 21 years old through smoking, i nearly died in the ambulance, had to kick the front door down to get to me as collapsed in the hall. Was very very scary, was in hospital for 10 days and when the doctors came to see me and said that if i carried on smoking i would be dead in 5 years. The look on my dad's face i knew they were being serious. I never smoked again.
> 
> But i still suffer with bad asthma now because of the smoking, and will only get worse as i get older.


So good that you stopped, it is a terrible disease. But if people can stop, there is so much that can be done to help them, as I am sure you have found.

Stay well :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2011)

Amethyst said:


> So good that you stopped, it is a terrible disease. But if people can stop, there is so much that can be done to help them, as I am sure you have found.
> 
> Stay well :thumbsup:


I just wish i had listened to the doctors when i was in my teens and stopped smoking but i was going through a really bad time in my life and just got hooked.

It is really sad to see my boys playing and i cannot play with them in the park, play footie, run round the park with them, it breaks my heart


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> I would second that
> 
> I think people are perhaps so upset because they are already spending so much on cigarettes as it is? How much are they for twenty now? Seems to be about £5 to £6.50? That's s a lot to spend if you smoke 20 a day or even 10 I guess, so adding 50p will soon mount up
> 
> I like a bottle of wine and usually have one a week at say £6.00, so not too worried about any increase...... but if I was already spending that a day on wine :blush2: I would DEFINITELY be trying to give it up :nono:


I only drink wine we have 3 bottles for a tenner a week out of asda, i dont smoke and we have a car so i can get oh to work.

If they did put more tax onto the **** and took it off the petrol the smokers who drive wouldnt be any worse off anyway because they would end up paying the same, but the people who choose not to smoke would have abit of tax relief.....


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

I'm growing my own tobacco this year.I used to many years ago.
You are supposed to declare and pay the full amount of duty when it is shredded for use....Yeah right!
The tax bandits admit that it's too complicated for them to enforce the law.It would cost them too much to collect from thousands of small growers, so they don't bother.
Years ago there was no tax on home grown tobacco if it was grown just for your own use...then along came an unelected pillock at the EEC...
There's intelligence for you....bringing in laws they can't enforce.

PS....The tax bandits and their minions tell us home grown tobacco is not safe to smoke...they are liars trying to put folks off growing their own.
A lot of the dangerous chemicals in tobacco are added by the manufacturers.


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## Stephen&Dogs (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't smoke :blink:


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

sorry but I have no sympathy, you chose to smoke, you have to pay the price.


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## foxxy cleopatra (Nov 18, 2008)

DONT SMOKE

There are cooler ways to die


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

foxxy cleopatra said:


> DONT SMOKE
> 
> There are cooler ways to die


Like pollution from the internal combustion engine and nuclear fallout.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2011)

I do not smoke, I dont drink and I dont drive. (I drink only on my birthday or when I am given a bottle from my in laws).

However I am fat.....

I would be more than happy to pay extra for chocolate. Though I doubt children would be happy.

My mum is a heavy smoker....very heavy. When we go over its like stepping into a cloud of smoke it hurts my throat, makes me cough and hurts my eyes yet my brother breaths it in everyday. 

My mum is happy to pay more for her addiction because she knows it could put other people off getting addicted.


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## foxxy cleopatra (Nov 18, 2008)

poohdog said:


> Like pollution from the internal combustion engine and nuclear fallout.


i was thinking more like

''DEATH....from getting run over by a library van''


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Has anyone noticed all the quit smoking ad signs under the last posts on this thread. Even the forum agrees with the anti-smokers on here.:001_smile::001_smile:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suewhite said:


> I do think alot of smokers would stop if they could but unless you've smoked you could never understand the cravings you get,a friend of mine stopped 5 years ago and still says they fancy a ciggy at timesthis is a list of things I've tried
> 
> Patches
> hypnosis
> ...


*I gave up for 12 years,oops but then i gained 5 stone now looking at it from the propaganda point of view.I was wrong in smoking,and then wrong in being obese (sp). I now smoke 200 a week and still haven't lost any weight.:lol::lol:
ps. but i'm bloody happy*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I still think they pick out smokers and target them more than they do other areas - I used to smoke but havent properly for a long time now - im a joker smoker  I like a *** when Ive got friends round who do and we are having a few bevvies etc - and I LOVED having a *** in the pub and when I went out but there is no fun now cos you have to stand outside in the bloody cold  hence why the pubs are now a dying trade - smoking is bad for your health we all know that but as adults we make our own choices and I as a non smoker wouldnt take that choice away from a smoker .....my partner is a smoker so I guess im used to it - however when it comes to children Im for stricter - my oh never smokes in the same room and goes outside when they are here to stay and would never dream of smoking in a car with them in.


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## Jamie (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm not bothered by the increase, I plan to quit on April 1st  Significally on that day to remind me I am a fool for smoking!


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## Staysee (Oct 19, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok, i don't want to cut down.As for the tax going on the petrol or anything else,it would have been a fairer way of doing things.*


Had to quote you im afraid for this.

I dont think hiking up petrol is fair in any way at all!

Me and my parents live in the middle of nowhere in a council house, my dads on benefits cos he cant work [truthfully] and my mums eyesight isnt what it used too be and she's not a confident driver anymore.

For us to get to any civilisation is atleast a 15-20min drive and with the price of petrol, we're putting enough in as it is, i pay towards it with my wages and i dont drive yet myself!

As of April the buses are also getting cut down from going through 4 times a day to just twice a day.

So no, putting money up on petrol would in no way ever be fairer.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I think the price increase is a good thing because it will encourage some people to stop.


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## Jonesey (Dec 30, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Serious answer: Speaking personally, I can only cut down with the aid of a nicotine patch, and I am not sure you are supposed to smoke at all with those. It is actually sometimes harder to cut down, than it is to give up completely. I had a friend years ago who went from smoking 20 a day to just smoking in the evenings and weekends, to just weekends, to just bank holidays, until eventually it was only christmas. I could never do that. I started to cut right down a couple of weeks ago, got away with only five the first day, then gradually it built up again. If the **** are in the house it is hard to remember you are supposed to be cutting down.
> 
> I found it helpful to keep them in a kitchen cupboard, so that I had to actually get up and go and find them, rather than having them sitting next to me on the sofa.


Try the gum instead, then you can start by substituting some of your smokes for gum.

Also if you really want to cut down you have to break your associations. If you always have one with your morning tea, wait till after you've had your cup. If you smoke while on the phone wait till you've hung up. And stop smoking in the house. Taking it outside makes a huge difference, you won't be getting a double whammy with secondhand smoke, your house will smell better and you'll find yourself wondering if you really need one more before bed when it's raining.

I haven't smoked indoors for maybe fifteen years. I've quit a bunch of times and it's always stress that makes me go back. I quit again two years ago, but I didn't tell my kids when I fell off that wagon, I'm just very very sneaky - and I don't smoke much, maybe five a day. No one should smoke indoors when there are children present. But unless someone keeps running in front of you to blow smoke in your face I don't think you have much to worry about with outside smoke. Better to worry about all the rest of the fecking pollution we breathe in every day.

Premium cigarettes here are about the same as what you're paying. There are cheapo brands and you can also buy them for really cheap at the native reservation, but they are crappy cigs. And there's been a ban on smoking indoors at restaurants etc. for years and years. We even have one on smoking if the car with minors. People really do adjust, they get used to it. And everybody is better off taking it outside, especially those that have to work there. Pubs can get smart by building patios with umbrellas and even heaters if they want. My brother was at a pub in Vancouver and they had a coin operated heater outside with the ashtrays.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Jonesey said:


> But unless someone keeps running in front of you to blow smoke in your face I don't think you have much to worry about with outside smoke. Better to worry about all the rest of the fecking pollution we breathe in every day.


Funny...according to some on here every time the subject of smoking appears.......they are made physically sick by somebody lighting up in the next county. Indeed you can smell the smoke in their hair when they get home,and they have to be put on oxygen....


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## Jonesey (Dec 30, 2010)

poohdog said:


> Funny...according to some on here every time the subject of smoking appears.......they are made physically sick by somebody lighting up in the next county. Indeed you can smell the smoke in their hair when they get home,and they have to be put on oxygen....


Oh yes and the dreaded third hand smoke. I'd love to see an analysis of someone's hair and clothing after walking down a city street - might make people demand hydrogen and electric powered vehicles and stricter laws on factory pollution.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

Jonesey said:


> Oh yes and the dreaded third hand smoke. I'd love to see an analysis of someone's hair and clothing after walking down a city street - might make people demand hydrogen and electric powered vehicles and stricter laws on factory pollution.


Do you know, on one of my attempted quits (another failed one) I went to the local NHS stop smoking clinic! The idea was that you went every week for six weeks and when you got there you had to blow into this tube thing that would register what was in the your lungs (would show if you had sneaked one) Dispite NOT smoking I NEVER had a zero reading! When I asked why I was told that I had either been stood near someone smoking! OR had been near exhaust fumes!


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok, i don't want to cut down.As for the tax going on the petrol or anything else,it would have been a fairer way of doing things.*


Did you think about that before you said it?
Already small businesses are suffering, Many will go out of business!, as are those in remote places, not to mention the ordinary working man just having to travel to his place of work! Parents getting their children to school, OAP's just wanting a run out, The world revolves around fuel! not smokers!

I am NOT anti smoking at all - never have been - never will be!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Did you think about that before you said it?
> Already small businesses are suffering, Many will go out of business!, as are those in remote places, not to mention the ordinary working man just having to travel to his place of work! Parents getting their children to school, OAP's just wanting a run out, The world revolves around fuel! not smokers!
> 
> I am NOT anti smoking at all - never have been - never will be!


Exactly, petrol goes up & it affects the price of everything including necessaties.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Exactly, petrol goes up & it affects the price of everything including necessaties.


Just the simple things that 'some' take for granted! the farmers bringing in their crops ! (OK red diesel but its still gone up significantly over the last year) The old the young, the frail and the weak, those in remote places having fill their oil tank jut to keep warm. The list is nver ending! 
Everyone suffers when fuel rises! just some don't see it!


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Did you think about that before you said it?
> Already small businesses are suffering, Many will go out of business!, as are those in remote places, not to mention the ordinary working man just having to travel to his place of work! Parents getting their children to school, OAP's just wanting a run out, The world revolves around fuel! not smokers!
> 
> I am NOT anti smoking at all - never have been - never will be!


Well said.

Yesterday I spoke with my granddad about this, he has worked hard his whole life. He was born into a poor family, lived in a rough area and had nothing. He built his life up working shitty little jobs like selling hoovers then when he turned 50 he had the chance to do what he really wanted and started his own buissness. He had it for 20 years before selling it for a fairly good price lucky too because the week after he sold it his partner in the firm dropped dead. So he avoided a messy sharing though the firm was 60% his and 40% the other guys.

He has always worked hard so grandma, my dad and my uncle could eat good food and come to them if they ever needed anything.

Yesterday he sat there nearly in tears and told me he felt like a prisoner because they already tax him something rotten, the cost of petrol is only adding to the stress.

Now if my granddad is struggling to just go to get shopping because petrols gone up that much, how the hell are those who have less money coping at all?

I dont drive but my mum, dad and granddad do. And they do because they have to, not because they want to.

Dad has to travel all over the UK for his job(when he's in the country), my mum has to get to the hospital and pick up my brothers. My granddad has to take my grandma to the hospital for her check ups and shopping.

Again they drive because they have to. Not because they want to. Smoking is a choice thing you decided to smoke. Its not something you have to do. (though I do know addiction can be hard I have watched my mum suffer with that addiction for 21 years).

Bus's cost a small fortune and my grandparents do not live near a train stop.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

The fact is we all knew that certain things would go up in the budget & I would rather that it was non essentials that were affected.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> The fact is we all knew that certain things would go up in the budget & I would rather that it was non essentials that were affected.


I think that is the views of the majority! PErsonally I would have liked to have seem him clobber the banks for a bit more revenue!


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Maybe they should bung another 10p on a packet for the estimated increase in expenses that MPs have just got.Another 3 million quid to help the poor sods out, especially those with children...
It was stated this morning that some were so short of cash they had to sleep in their offices overnight as they couldn't afford accommodation....What rubbish.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Did you think about that before you said it?
> Already small businesses are suffering, Many will go out of business!, as are those in remote places, not to mention the ordinary working man just having to travel to his place of work! Parents getting their children to school, OAP's just wanting a run out, The world revolves around fuel! not smokers!
> 
> I am NOT anti smoking at all - never have been - never will be!


*Yes i did think about it i'm not thick.
I have stated throughout this thread it would have been fairer not to just target smokers.And just for the record everyone was pleased to see1p knocked off of a litre of petrol,but the price at the pump is not down to just the goverment.They could and do when it suites them lower the price at the pumps when it suites them.*


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Yes i did think about it i'm not thick.
> I have stated throughout this thread it would have been fairer not to just target smokers.And just for the record everyone was pleased to see1p knocked off of a litre of petrol,but the price at the pump is not down to just the goverment.They could and do when it suites them lower the price at the pumps when it suites them.*


The thing that really annoys me with the fuel is that there is a vast difference in the price depending on the area you live in! If I drive 1o miles in any direction I can save 7p a litre on fuel! All of our garages charge the same 139.9 or 140.9

And many garages put the fuel up anyway just prior to the budget - so we have saved nothing anyway!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> The thing that really annoys me with the fuel is that there is a vast difference in the price depending on the area you live in! If I drive 1o miles in any direction I can save 7p a litre on fuel! All of our garages charge the same 139.9 or 140.9
> 
> And many garages put the fuel up anyway just prior to the budget - so we have saved nothing anyway!


*The reason they do that is because they keep in touch one way or another to check on each others prices.Usualy they are more interested in those within a 3 mile radius.*


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

Well i heard that on the morning of the budget all garages put there prices up by 1p and then when they read the 1p decrease in fuel on the budget they just put it down to the original price, so we didnt have it 1p cheaper at all!!!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

KathrynH said:


> Well i heard that on the morning of the budget all garages put there prices up by 1p and then when they read the 1p decrease in fuel on the budget they just put it down to the original price, so we didnt have it 1p cheaper at all!!!!


*They did the same here Kath.*


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *They did the same here Kath.*


It is disgusting isnt it janice!!!  Makes me so angry x


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

One of my friends was standing at a bus stop the other day, not in the shelter but outside. A woman with a baby in a buggy went over to her and asked her to put out her ciggy as she was polluting the babies air. There was no mention of the huge ancient double decker bus sitting right in front of the baby with it's exhaust face height. Some people latch onto things without thinking for themselves.

I smoke, I'm gutted at the tax hike, but smokers contribute more to the govt in tax than the govt spend on the NHS, sounds to me like without us smokers all holier than thou non-smokers would be fkd as far as health care goes!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

poohdog said:


> Funny...according to some on here every time the subject of smoking appears.......they are made physically sick by somebody lighting up in the next county. Indeed you can smell the smoke in their hair when they get home,and they have to be put on oxygen....


I hope you are not referring to my post when you mention oxygen? 

My mum needed oxygen for the last year of her life, near the end 24/7 because she developed emphysema, a disease strongly associated with cigarette smoking. It destroyed her lungs, slowly but surely over the years and left her unable to walk even around the house without oxygen and in the end that was useless and she was bed bound.

You may think it's funny to laugh about oxygen usage, but all I can say is that I sincerely hope that someone you loves never develops emphysema ...


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

ClaireLily said:


> One of my friends was standing at a bus stop the other day, not in the shelter but outside. A woman with a baby in a buggy went over to her and asked her to put out her ciggy as she was polluting the babies air. There was no mention of the huge ancient double decker bus sitting right in front of the baby with it's exhaust face height. Some people latch onto things without thinking for themselves.
> 
> I smoke, I'm gutted at the tax hike, but smokers contribute more to the govt in tax than the govt spend on the NHS, sounds to me like without us smokers all holier than thou non-smokers would be fkd as far as health care goes!


Good for that mum, it's horrible when you are standing waiting somewhere and you get smoke floating and blowing everywhere. It's possibly even worse when you walk past someone and you get a lungful ... vile 

People who smoke and make out they are doing the NHS a favour, like yourself, are being very naive and quite simply have their head in the sand.

If they want to smoke, their choice, but for heavens sake, they should be responsible enough to take responsibility for their actions ... And also show a little sensitivity towards those who don't want second hand carcinogenic substances puffed out and around them. For example get away from doorways, not huddle in them so you have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get into a shop or pub! 
In fairness many smokers do respect other people do not want a share of their smoke and I respect them for that


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

ClaireLily said:


> One of my friends was standing at a bus stop the other day, not in the shelter but outside. A woman with a baby in a buggy went over to her and asked her to put out her ciggy as she was polluting the babies air. There was no mention of the huge ancient double decker bus sitting right in front of the baby with it's exhaust face height. Some people latch onto things without thinking for themselves.
> 
> I smoke, I'm gutted at the tax hike, but smokers contribute more to the govt in tax than the govt spend on the NHS, sounds to me like without us smokers all holier than thou non-smokers would be fkd as far as health care goes!


*lol The times i've pointed this sort of thing out to my hubby is unreal.But hey,people need buses.*


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Good for that mum, it's horrible when you are standing waiting somewhere and you get smoke floating and blowing everywhere. It's possibly even worse when you walk past someone and you get a lungful ... vile
> 
> People who smoke and make out they are doing the NHS a favour, like yourself, are being very naive and quite simply have their head in the sand.
> 
> ...


I take full responsibility, I do not smoke anywhere that I am not permitted, I smoke outside, if there was a child nearby I would stand somewhere else. I take my filthy disgusting habit as far away from the 'smoking police' as I can. I cannot however leave the country to live somewhere more civilised just yet but I am working on it.

I think criminals get an easier time of it than smokers!

Also, if you do not want to be inhaling carcinogenic pollutants I suggest you go home, shut the doors and windows and keep them shut. Do not redecorate for fear of inhaling the chemicals in the paint, do not turn on any electrical or gas appliance which ultimately releases pollutants into the air and stop using aerosols.

Alternatively you could just get a life and let other people get on with theirs however they see fit!


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

ClaireLily said:


> I think criminals get an easier time of it than smokers!
> 
> Also, if you do not want to be inhaling carcinogenic pollutants I suggest you go home, shut the doors and windows and keep them shut. Do not redecorate for fear of inhaling the chemicals in the paint, do not turn on any electrical or gas appliance which ultimately releases pollutants into the air and stop using aerosols.
> 
> Alternatively you could just get a life and let other people get on with theirs however they see fit!


I have been a smoker for most of my adult life! And yes! smokers do get scorned upon! BUT we are not in the ice age anymore! it has be proven beyond doubt that smoking IS harmful to those around us! I am therefore one of those that is of the opinion that smoking should be banned everywhere with the exception of your OWN home! Fresh air is there for everyone to enjoy, smokers and non smokers alike, yes! we do have polution from other things - many which we are unable to stop - but smoking we CAN and I wouldn't mind putting money on it that we will - eventually!.

I come from an age where smoking were seen to be glamorous, every film star had a *** hung from their lips! The clubs and pubs were touted at weekends by the JP girls giving away free ciggys! But that was then and this is now! We have moved on in medical research in other areas - why are some so reluctant to hang back re the smoking laws?

As for you last quote - re getting a life!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I have been a smoker for most of my adult life! And yes! smokers do get scorned upon! BUT we are not in the ice age anymore! it has be proven beyond doubt that smoking IS harmful to those around us! I am therefore one of those that is of the opinion that smoking should be banned everywhere with the exception of your OWN home! Fresh air is there for everyone to enjoy, smokers and non smokers alike, yes! we do have polution from other things - many which we are unable to stop - but smoking we CAN and I wouldn't mind putting money on it that we will - eventually!.
> 
> I come from an age where smoking were seen to be glamorous, every film star had a *** hung from their lips! The clubs and pubs were touted at weekends by the JP girls giving away free ciggys! But that was then and this is now! We have moved on in medical research in other areas - why are some so reluctant to hang back re the smoking laws?
> 
> As for you last quote - re getting a life!


Totally agree, isnt passive smoking meant to be more harmful? 
My friend somkes and she would never dream of lighting up round my kids or us because we dont smoke. Its just respect never mind smokers getting a rough ride if someone chooses to smoke then fair enough do it away from everyone else.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Havent read all of this but some of it put a smile on my face, lol!

I am a smoker, soon to be ex hopefully, purely becuase of the money side of things, unfortunately I do still enjoy a smoke and in the job I do, most staff do smoke and its prob the best of relieving stress whislt at work, lol!

The rise we got on ciggies in the budget didnt come as a complete surprise but I did think it was a tad on the high side!

I do get on my high horse sometimes with the anti-smoking brigade, and I do abide by the laws etc, in my defence! 

I even had my dentist ask if I smoked and when I said yes, she told me it was bad for my gums and I should think about quitting!!! First time a dentist has had a go at me, its normally Dr's and nurses, lol!!


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> I hope you are not referring to my post when you mention oxygen?
> 
> My mum needed oxygen for the last year of her life, near the end 24/7 because she developed emphysema, a disease strongly associated with cigarette smoking. It destroyed her lungs, slowly but surely over the years and left her unable to walk even around the house without oxygen and in the end that was useless and she was bed bound.
> 
> You may think it's funny to laugh about oxygen usage, but all I can say is that I sincerely hope that someone you loves never develops emphysema ...


Don't put words in my mouth...I don't need a lecture from you thanks.If you want to twist what I post, that's your problem.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Of all the things the British Government have taxed throughout their often notorious history, Wigs, Talcum powder, Windows, and Fire places to name but a few, the freedom of choice just has to be the most criminally opportunistic ever! :


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## xhuskyloverx (May 5, 2010)

I do think as long as people are respectfull then it shouldn't be too much of a problem people smoking. Although i've never smoked so can't really speak about how hard it is to give up ect.

However both of my parents have smoked since before I was born, while my mum was pregnant and ever since (19 years on) and I hate it! They smoke in the house and in the car and always have done. Never really thought about it while I was younger as I didn't really get it but now i'm older I think it's disgusting. I had asthma as a child, luckily i've grown out of it and it only affects me in the summer now. When i'm at home I can't smell it but since we've been going to a farm with college i've been taking a change of clothes with me (can get very muddy) and the 1st week I did I took my clothes out of the bag and they stunk! I actually stayed in my farm clothes. It really did upset me that people could have smelt it on me without me realising 

I now do my own washing and get it dried and put away on a monday and friday when my parents aren't home and i'm not at college. Although this probs doesn't really help actually, as mum smokes in the morning after i've got dressed and in the car on the way!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

xhuskyloverx said:


> I do think as long as people are respectfull then it shouldn't be too much of a problem people smoking. Although i've never smoked so can't really speak about how hard it is to give up ect.
> 
> However both of my parents have smoked since before I was born, while my mum was pregnant and ever since (19 years on) and I hate it! They smoke in the house and in the car and always have done. Never really thought about it while I was younger as I didn't really get it but now i'm older I think it's disgusting. I had asthma as a child, luckily i've grown out of it and it only affects me in the summer now. When i'm at home I can't smell it but since we've been going to a farm with college i've been taking a change of clothes with me (can get very muddy) and the 1st week I did I took my clothes out of the bag and they stunk! I actually stayed in my farm clothes. It really did upset me that people could have smelt it on me without me realising
> 
> I now do my own washing and get it dried and put away on a monday and friday when my parents aren't home and i'm not at college. Although this probs doesn't really help actually, as mum smokes in the morning after i've got dressed and in the car on the way!


My mom did the same she smoked 20 a day before she got pregnant with me and then smoked 40 Ill always remember our house smelling of smoke and the wallpaper being yellow and it makes me so angry that they used to smoke round the house with no windows or doors open


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## SuperSimoholic (Sep 16, 2010)

xhuskyloverx said:


> It really did upset me that people could have smelt it on me without me realising
> 
> I now do my own washing and get it dried and put away on a monday and friday when my parents aren't home and i'm not at college. Although this probs doesn't really help actually, as mum smokes in the morning after i've got dressed and in the car on the way!


My Nan would smoke in the morning after hanging out my school clothes when I was younger, and one day, the teacher stopped me in front of the whole class and said (very loudly) "Shaleen, you stink of smoke, have you been smoking?" and I was mortified, I defended myself saying that it's my clothes because of my Nan and stuff but he just looked at me and was like "... Smoking is bad for you" in that 'yeah, ok' tone... I was really upset and embarrassed, and felt extremely dirty and sick thinking that if he thought that then other people obviously do. There's something extremely wrong when a 12 year old feels emotionally dirty.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I have been a smoker for most of my adult life! And yes! smokers do get scorned upon! BUT we are not in the ice age anymore! *it has be proven beyond doubt that smoking IS harmful to those around us! I am therefore one of those that is of the opinion that smoking should be banned everywhere with the exception of your OWN home*! Fresh air is there for everyone to enjoy, smokers and non smokers alike, yes! we do have polution from other things - many which we are unable to stop - but smoking we CAN and I wouldn't mind putting money on it that we will - eventually!.
> 
> I come from an age where smoking were seen to be glamorous, every film star had a *** hung from their lips! The clubs and pubs were touted at weekends by the JP girls giving away free ciggys! But that was then and this is now! We have moved on in medical research in other areas - why are some so reluctant to hang back re the smoking laws?
> 
> As for you last quote - re getting a life!


I fully agree. Im not anti smoking but I fully agree with DT. Its is proven without doubt to be harmful, and even more harmful to passive smokers. I hate to see people smoking around kids, and I really hate to see people smoking in cars with kids in the back. Its discusting IMO. Makes me so mad, putting chidren at such risks IMO is neglectful


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## shibby (Oct 3, 2010)

Zaros said:


> Of all the things the British Government have taxed throughout their often notorious history, Wigs, Talcum powder, Windows, and Fire places to name but a few, the freedom of choice just has to be the most criminally opportunistic ever! :


Not to mention fruit smoothies being one of the new 'luxury items' as well


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

poohdog said:


> Don't put words in my mouth...I don't need a lecture from you thanks.If you want to twist what I post, that's your problem.


TRhen why make fun of people having to use oxygen, that's just very sad, to put it mildly.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

ClaireLily said:


> Alternatively you could just get a life and let other people get on with theirs however they see fit!


Alternately smokers could show a little respect for others and not inflict their poison on others 

Passive smoking kills too.


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

You're right it does, but if your going to avoid every carcinogen it's going to be a pretty miserable existence!
No more over-toasted bread, no more crispy bacon, coffee, tea, nuts the list is endless.

As for respect, I said I always move away from non-smokers and would never intentionally inflict my smoke on anyone. Perhaps the respect should work both ways and non-smokers should refrain from going out of their way to tell us how filthy we are.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

ClaireLily said:


> You're right it does, but if your going to avoid every carcinogen it's going to be a pretty miserable existence!
> No more over-toasted bread, no more crispy bacon, coffee, tea, nuts the list is endless.
> 
> As for respect, I said I always move away from non-smokers and would never intentionally inflict my smoke on anyone. Perhaps the respect should work both ways and non-smokers should refrain from going out of their way to tell us how filthy we are.


Are you on the waccy baccy? Seeing as you are talking carcinogens perhaps one of the most famous or infamous depending how you view it is asbestos! I don't see nor hear cigarettes carrying the same strict safety guidelines as this material!

Cigarettes cannot EVER be compared with any of the substances that you mention! and it is statements such as you have just made that get smokers a bad name! And this comes from an hardened smoker!

DT

ps -you forgot the pork cracklingQ thats far worse then the items you mentioned!


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

I was trying to make the point that walking past a smoker on the street probably carries the same risk as consuming carcinogenic materials (or walking along a busy road next to all the exhaust fumes). Not that smoking has the same risks! I'm not an idiot, actually I'm pretty well educated in the risks and causes of cancer.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

ClaireLily said:


> I was trying to make the point that walking past a smoker on the street probably carries the same risk as consuming carcinogenic materials (or walking along a busy road next to all the exhaust fumes). Not that smoking has the same risks! I'm not an idiot, actually I'm pretty well educated in the risks and causes of cancer.


You may be well educated! I don't claim to be so! BUT I can assure you Second hand smoke cannot now nor never will nor can be compared with overdone toast! 
So stick that in your pipe and spoke it!
Preferably on the top of mount everest!
DT


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## adam87 (Nov 16, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Whilst smoking does generate a large amount of revenue by taxes I'm not sure this does balance up when estimating how much is spent treating people with smoking related diseases by the NHS.
> 
> There are various studies which dispute this statement (but I'm sure there are those that would support it!)
> 
> Seeing as it is beleieved that smoking is the cause of 1 in 5 deaths & a contributory factor in disabilities then the more people that can give up this additcion the better.


Alcohol costs the NHS BILLIONS, accidents, rapes, fights, drunk driving etc nevermind alcohol poisoning and various organ failures. I can still get cheap ale. Then there's police time which is going to be hard to come by, nobody gets arrested for having a fight after smoking, there could be violence if I can't get a smoke after dealing with a rude customer at work..

Smoking is good for the environment, only because it cuts about 10/20 years off the smokers life, as far as the worlds concerned people being alive is extremely carbon/resource expensive..


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Don't smoke never have, can't see the point it it... I don't care if people do.... The thing that does get me though is how smokers have to trot off to the smoking sheds for a ***. If my collegues are not at their desk away"having a ***" is accepted. At least in my early working days even though I would come from my office smelling of ****, at least we all did the same amount of work a day and non smokers did not have to cover for the smokers :001_smile:

£7 a packet that is madness!


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

adam87 said:


> Alcohol costs the NHS BILLIONS, accidents, rapes, fights, drunk driving etc nevermind alcohol poisoning and various organ failures. I can still get cheap ale. Then there's police time which is going to be hard to come by, nobody gets arrested for having a fight after smoking, there could be violence if I can't get a smoke after dealing with a rude customer at work..
> 
> Smoking is good for the environment, only because it cuts about 10/20 years off the smokers life, as far as the worlds concerned people being alive is extremely carbon/resource expensive..


you forgot! it saves the government billions! in pensions they DONT have to pay out due to premature deaths!


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

ClaireLily said:


> You're right it does, but if your going to avoid every carcinogen it's going to be a pretty miserable existence!
> No more over-toasted bread, no more crispy bacon, coffee, tea, nuts the list is
> endless.


The thing is, I have the choice if I eat the above, I can do nothing about inhaling a lung full of poison when someone walks past me with a *** in their hands  *Foul* :tongue_smilie:

You know, it never ceases to amaze me how selfish *some* smokers really are

*sigh*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> The thing is, I have the choice if I eat the above, I can do nothing about inhaling a lung full of poison when someone walks past me with a *** in their hands  *Foul* :tongue_smilie:
> 
> You know, it never ceases to amaze me how selfish *some* smokers really are
> 
> *sigh*


*:lol::lol: Now if you want to talk about selfish i'd take a good look at the things written on this thread and you will see it the NON smokers that come across as selfish.They are quite happy that smokers are alienated,not being to sit in comfort drinking in a pub,can't even stand out in the open without being looked down on,told they stink,and then its ok because they die earlier and will save the goverment money because their pensions won't need to be paid.
Smokers selfish? yeah right pull the other one.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

ClaireLily said:


> I was trying to make the point that walking past a smoker on the street probably carries the same risk as consuming carcinogenic materials (or walking along a busy road next to all the exhaust fumes). Not that smoking has the same risks! I'm not an idiot, actually I'm pretty well educated in the risks and causes of cancer.


I think you would have to walk a hell of a lot of miles constantly next to a person smoking for any cigarette smoke to effect you.

I find a lot of the comments on here very over the top, just about everything carries a risk. Smokers have bee banned from smoking in public places what do the non smokers want? Ive been at the pub, standing outside having a cigarette and more than once heard someone standing outside moaning at people smoking, when did you ever see before the smoking ban people standing outside middle of winter freezing cold. so my point is when the pub was clouded in smoke they were in there, now we have to go outside suddenly non smokers are stood outside, dont get it tbh.

Ive actiully noticed since the smoking ban, non smokers are more against smoking than ever they were before.
Smokers ask for very little, alcoholics recieve extra money for their addiction, drug users have the methadone programme, now whos costing the economy money? Those rehab units for drugs and alcohol abusers are very expensive to run i would bet.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *:lol::lol: Now if you want to talk about selfish i'd take a good look at the things written on this thread and you will see it the NON smokers that come across as selfish.They are quite happy that smokers are alienated,not being to sit in comfort drinking in a pub,can't even stand out in the open without being looked down on,told they stink,and then its ok because they die earlier and will save the goverment money because their pensions won't need to be paid.
> Smokers selfish? yeah right pull the other one.*


Eh? You still choose to smoke though knowing that smoking (inc passive) causes cancer - how selfish to expect to be allowed to sit in an enclosed space inflicting this on others?!!! :blink:

I don't think it's ok that smokers die early - I think it's tragic that people are dying painful deaths because of their addiction.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> I think you would have to walk a hell of a lot of miles constantly next to a person smoking for any cigarette smoke to effect you.
> 
> I find a lot of the comments on here very over the top, just about everything carries a risk. Smokers have bee banned from smoking in public places what do the non smokers want? Ive been at the pub, standing outside having a cigarette and more than once heard someone standing outside moaning at people smoking, when did you ever see before the smoking ban people standing outside middle of winter freezing cold. so my point is when the pub was clouded in smoke they were in there, now we have to go outside suddenly non smokers are stood outside, dont get it tbh.
> 
> ...


Oh how times have changed! When I had my chidren the first thing they asked were if you wanted a *** and a cuppa immediately after the delivery! 
Yet fifteen years after that (and that was fifteen years ago too) I am stood at an outside door of an hospital with a drip in my arm getting my nico fix!

Smoking does NOT bother me! and perhaps never will!
BUT! I know during my time as a smoker I have been very very selfish!
I have smoked in the family car - with the children, I have smoked in the room with my husband and my current OH neither whom smoke! I have smoked at work, in restruants, in peoples houses, in night clubs and in pubs! 
On planes in shops and in the street!

But then we were encouraged to smoke! NOW after so much medical research and cast iron evidence it is beyond doubt that smoking in harmful

So my view is - if you wanna smoke thats your choice! feel free to do it - but do not expect others to have to inhale it! anywhere ever.
If we were talking about a sustance that came from an industrial scource and there was even a hint of the fumes being dangerous the place would be shut down in nano seconds.

And for them that think smokers don't stink, they do -they absouletly reek, and that is summat - as a smoker I was ALWAYS consious of! perhaps because I have NEVER had a smoking partner! I could never kiss anyone who smoked! but would expect them to kiss me! how selfish am I! that has to be to the tops!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> Eh? You still choose to smoke though knowing that smoking (inc passive) causes cancer - how selfish to expect to be allowed to sit in an enclosed space inflicting this on others?!!! :blink:
> 
> I don't think it's ok that smokers die early - I think it's tragic that people are dying painful deaths because of their addiction.


*There is an assumption that ALL smokers will die of cancer,not true.As for inflicting it on others then let those others keep away from the smokers.When the smoking ban came in,why didn't they choose to have smoking and none smoking pubs? Because the non smokers are selfish as i've said before.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> Eh? You still choose to smoke though knowing that smoking (inc passive) causes cancer - how selfish to expect to be allowed to sit in an enclosed space inflicting this on others?!!! :blink:
> 
> I don't think it's ok that smokers die early - I think it's tragic that people are dying painful deaths because of their addiction.


I drink tea/coffee that was noted a while ago to cause cancer, i use cleaning products in my home, that was reported to cause cancer, i drive i also walk down the street exhaust fumes were reported to cause cancer, so many things can cause cancer, so many things can kill us, to pick on one thing is riduculous, i will die one day of something, but you know what i wont leave this world having spent my life worrying and moaning about everyones actions that could have contributed to it.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> I drink tea/coffee that was noted a while ago to cause cancer, i use cleaning products in my home, that was reported to cause cancer, i drive i also walk down the street exhaust fumes were reported to cause cancer, so many things can cause cancer, so many things can kill us, to pick on one thing is riduculous, i will die one day of something, but you know what i wont leave this world having spent my life worrying and moaning about everyones actions that could have contributed to it.


Tea, coffee, cleaning products - seriously are no where near as dangerous as smoking! Yes, one day we will all die of something but seeing as I love my life I want to live for as long as possible & be as healthy as I can.

Picking on smoking is not ridiculous - maybe ask your doctor his/her opinion.

As for making non-smokers keep away from those who choose to smoke what abbout the staff who work in pubs/restaurants, etc or maybe they shouldn't be allowed to work there?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> Tea, coffee, cleaning products - seriously are no where near as dangerous as smoking! Yes, one day we will all die of something but seeing as I love my life I want to live for as long as possible & be as healthy as I can.
> 
> Picking on smoking is not ridiculous - maybe ask your doctor his/her opinion.
> 
> As for making non-smokers keep away from those who choose to smoke what abbout the staff who work in pubs/restaurants, etc or maybe they shouldn't be allowed to work there?


*If you had smoking pubs you would only employ smokers,unless you could find non smokers that didn't mind working there.*


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> I drink tea/coffee that was noted a while ago to cause cancer, i use cleaning products in my home, that was reported to cause cancer, i drive i also walk down the street exhaust fumes were reported to cause cancer, so many things can cause cancer, so many things can kill us, to pick on one thing is riduculous, i will die one day of something, but you know what i wont leave this world having spent my life worrying and moaning about everyones actions that could have contributed to it.


Yep! but when you have a cuppo the fumes are not inhalled by others, Again when cleaning - only really yourself that inhales the fumes! we can always wear a mask!  I know when I meet my maker it will be premature and that the amount I have smoked over the years will have contributed to that! but that was my choice - and no good crying about it when the damage is done! The poor folk that die of cancer and have died of cancer brought on by second hand smoke - I am talking them that have never smoked and from other substances inhaled whilst at work (prior to the dangers being made aware) now that is very unfair! and selfish of us smokers who still insist on our rights to smoke!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> Tea, coffee, cleaning products - seriously are no where near as dangerous as smoking! Yes, one day we will all die of something but seeing as I love my life I want to live for as long as possible & be as healthy as I can.
> 
> Picking on smoking is not ridiculous - maybe ask your doctor his/her opinion.
> 
> As for making non-smokers keep away from those who choose to smoke what abbout the staff who work in pubs/restaurants, etc or maybe they shouldn't be allowed to work there?


The staff in pubs dont have to breath in the smoke, we cant smoke in those places, ime all for the smoking ban, when ime against is the non smokers still moaning about people smoking outside, and not saying i any way that smoking is not harmfull it has to be and yes its more harmfull than other thing we have in our life.
I smoke, i dont inflict it on anyone else and i will not be dictated to by all the non smokers


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> The staff in pubs dont have to breath in the smoke, we cant smoke in those places, ime all for the smoking ban, when ime against is the non smokers still moaning about people smoking outside, and not saying i any way that smoking is not harmfull it has to be and yes its more harmfull than other thing we have in our life.
> I smoke, i dont inflict it on anyone else and i will not be dictated to by all the non smokers


I have no problem with people smoking outside, at work though there is a bit of an issue with this as people are complaining that certain smokers are taking the p*ss & having far too many breaks. Another can of worms!!


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *There is an assumption that ALL smokers will die of cancer,not true.As for inflicting it on others then let those others keep away from the smokers.When the smoking ban came in,why didn't they choose to have smoking and none smoking pubs? Because the non smokers are selfish as i've said before.*


I think the ban in pubs was because people shouldnt have to work around something that can cause you harm... its less for the non smokers more for the staff having to work in a smoke filled room 40 hrs a week. Which is why there are no longer smoking rooms in places (cleaning staffs work area) - essentially it was a ban on smoking in all work areas.

Nothing to do with what NON smokers want, but to make work environments safe and healthy for staff.

There are of course risks with ALL jobs...my factory used to make a drug that contained a chemical in the process that made women potentially infertile...so what did they do? They banned women from the area, and all men had to wear full tornado suits with breathing eqt. Its the same thing really. Most jobs have risks but its an employers responsibility to minimise those risks; and that is law. All the govt did with the smoking ban is really force that smoking is considered one of those risks


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Savahl said:


> I think the ban in pubs was because people shouldnt have to work around something that can cause you harm... its less for the non smokers more for the staff having to work in a smoke filled room 40 hrs a week. Which is why there are no longer smoking rooms in places (cleaning staffs work area) - essentially it was a ban on smoking in all work areas.
> 
> Nothing to do with what NON smokers want, but to make work environments safe and healthy for staff.
> 
> There are of course risks with ALL jobs...my factory used to make a drug that contained a chemical in the process that made women potentially infertile...so what did they do? They banned women from the area, and all men had to wear full tornado suits with breathing eqt. Its the same thing really. Most jobs have risks but its an employers responsibility to minimise those risks; and that is law. All the govt did with the smoking ban is really force that smoking is considered one of those risks


*But if smokers are prepared to take that risk then why shouldn't they?As for the goverment,we are back to the begining of this thread,ie. the goverment are willing to take our money for something they say they don't think is safe. Hypocryts comes to mind.*


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

Starlite said:


> Whoa hold on!
> Why arent drug addicts, *self harmers* and the obese taxed extra then? Why single out one group and say "oohh you are naughty" :nono:


LMAO first time I've heard smokers being on a par with a mentally ill person.

Self harm is more often than not due to a mental illness - smoking is personal choice albeit an addictive one :


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *If you had smoking pubs you would only employ smokers,unless you could find non smokers that didn't mind working there.*


and how many pubs went down the pan after the smoking ban?


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## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

My Dad dropped dead at the age of 52 of natural causes. Had never smoked or drank alcohol in his life and was the same weight and apparent fitness as the day he went into the army at 18.
My Nan (his Mum) sat at his wake smoking a *** and died 16 years later aged 91 having been a 20 a day smoker since she was 13. Bearing in mind most of those **** weren't tipped.
Dying from smoking is a lottery. The fact that it can ruin your health is not disputed, but it is not always the case and should still be a personal choice.

My husband died at 31, never smoked or drank, was the healthiest person I know, he was killed in a road traffic accident leaving me to bring up three children under 5. The person that killed him turned right while looking over her shoulder to talk to her Mum in the back seat. 6 points on her licence and £100 fine. Do they stop people driving when they kill someone.......NO


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> and how many pubs went down the pan after the smoking ban?


*The amount of pubs that have closed since the ban is unreal.I have to chuckle to myself when the non smokers go on about how bad smoking is,but they all use to go to the pubs with smokers.Why didn't they just stay at home?*


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

I am glad they banned smoking in pubs. My grandparents used to take me to pubs for lunches and meals twice a month and sometimes the smoke was so bad that I would be coughing and have to stand outside, I was only young yet that memory stays with me. 

Now, I can go with my grandparents and my brothers and have a nice meal without my food tasting like ****, my mouth tasting like ****, my eyes being sore and without a sore throat. 

I dont mind smokers ALL my friends in high school and college smoked and I would go stand with them while they had a *** because, well..my clothes already stunk because my mums a heavy smoker and I was outside so I could just stand away from the direction the smoke was going in. 

But I think they did the rigth thing banning smoking from pubs.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *The amount of pubs that have closed since the ban is unreal.I have to chuckle to myself when the non smokers go on about how bad smoking is,but they all use to go to the pubs with smokers.Why didn't they just stay at home?*


So non smokers should have no evening social life? I used to detest the smoke in pubs, but if i wanted to see my friends i had no choice. Pretty weak argument imo. You still get to smoke, just in smokers shelters, and everyone still gets to go out and be social.

My mum and dad were both smokers (dad still is but only on holiday apparently...) and as a child i had a god awful smokers cough, it was really quite bad. I still suffered after I moved out but only really when I was in pubs alot... Now i dont cough at all, and when i do get them its minor and only lasts a week or so as oppossed to months, which was the norm.
So I am obviously all for the ban.

The way i see it, no one is irritated by my none smoking. It doesnt affect the person next to me or behind me. A smoker affects everyone in close vicinity to them, either their health, the smell or their enjoyment of the environment.. so why is it such a bad thing to have designated areas outside for people to smoke, alongside people who actively choose to be in that environment for social reasons. And employees dont have to suffer as its in the open air and they arent in their for extended periods.

And if someone chose to work in a smokey environment which made them ill, whether they chose to or not, the employer is still responsible for not providing sufficient controls to protect them from harm. So the buck would still land at the employers feet if one of their employers developed a smoking related illness worsened by their work environment.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Savahl said:


> So non smokers should have no evening social life? I used to detest the smoke in pubs, but if i wanted to see my friends i had no choice. Pretty weak argument imo. You still get to smoke, just in smokers shelters, and everyone still gets to go out and be social.
> 
> My mum and dad were both smokers (dad still is but only on holiday apparently...) and as a child i had a god awful smokers cough, it was really quite bad. I still suffered after I moved out but only really when I was in pubs alot... Now i dont cough at all, and when i do get them its minor and only lasts a week or so as oppossed to months, which was the norm.
> So I am obviously all for the ban.
> ...


*You see,you are only thinking of yourself.Do you think smokers like having to stand out in all weathers just to have a smoke? Yeah we would love a decent evening out to enjoy it how we please,but the do gooders have put a stop to that.
Typical of what this country has become,dictators.*


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *You see,you are only thinking of yourself.Do you think smokers like having to stand out in all weathers just to have a smoke? Yeah we would love a decent evening out to enjoy it how we please,but the do gooders have put a stop to that.
> Typical of what this country has become,dictators.*


You dont have to stand out in all weather....

My grandma used to go sit in the car for a smoke. Or not smoke at all until she got back.

My grandma quit shortly after the ban was introduced because she already had a heart problem and was told to stop by her doctor but the ban was the push she needed and now she only smokes once a year on Christmas and only has 1.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *You see,you are only thinking of yourself.Do you think smokers like having to stand out in all weathers just to have a smoke? Yeah we would love a decent evening out to enjoy it how we please,but the do gooders have put a stop to that.
> Typical of what this country has become,dictators.*


Its not thinking of myself cos you still get to go out and do what you want to do, just not in a place where i cant escape it. You can still smoke, in a shelter. You can still be social in the pub. You can still enjoy your evening. We take nothing away from you except the ability to smoke in a place where the smoke is inescapable.

Saying non smokers should just stay at home is saying we should have less rights to a social life cos we chose not to partake in a drug thats proven to be damaging to health. We arent stopping you doing it. Just stopping you doing it TO other people


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *You see,you are only thinking of yourself..*


You're not then


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

Its kinda like that annoying guy thats always in a pub with music thats dancing flamboyently. Everyone is getting knocked about, bumped into, knocked drinks over...generally annoyed. He is having a great time but everyone around them is hacked off. Who is being selfish, the guy who is only worried about enjoying himself despite everyone he is knocking about, or the people who are being knocked about for telling him to stop having his fun?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Savahl said:


> Its kinda like that annoying guy thats always in a pub with music thats dancing flamboyently. Everyone is getting knocked about, bumped into, knocked drinks over...generally annoyed. He is having a great time but everyone around them is hacked off. Who is being selfish, the guy who is only worried about enjoying himself despite everyone he is knocking about, or the people who are being knocked about for telling him to stop having his fun?


*I understand your point,but then i would argue why not be happy that he's happy? Would it be right he was told to stand outside and dance?*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> You're not then


*lmfa and thats coming from a reformed smoker? enough said.*


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *I understand your point,but then i would argue why not be happy that he's happy? Would it be right he was told to stand outside and dance?*


Yes it would. Cos he is affecting the enjoyment of everyone around him. Can you honestly say you would be glad that he is enjoying himself despite the fact your being knocked about, maybe knocked into other people or tables, your drink being spilt. ALL NIGHT. "well at least hes happy...dance boyo!"? Including beer down your clothes so you have to wash em as soon as your in to stop it stinking your room up. And in your hair.

Cos smoke does get in your clothes and hair and as a non smoker its very unpleasant...if you dont wash it before you go to bed you wake up to that smell in your throat :/


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *lmfa and thats coming from a reformed smoker? enough said.*


Who says I'm reformed! couldn't really care less myself! Secondhand smoke does NOT bother me personally! maybe because I have inhalled enough of the stuff in my lifetime! it is the attitude of some that puts ALL smokers in a bad light though! Statements such as why could the not put the tax on the fuel rather then hit the smokers in selfishness is the highest degree! And if you fail to see that !


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Who says I'm reformed! couldn't really care less myself! Secondhand smoke does NOT bother me personally! maybe because I have inhalled enough of the stuff in my lifetime! it is the attitude of some that puts ALL smokers in a bad light though! Statements such as why could the not put the tax on the fuel rather then hit the smokers in selfishness is the highest degree! And if you fail to see that !


:lol::lol::lol::lol::thumbdown:


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> I have no problem with people smoking outside, at work though there is a bit of an issue with this as people are complaining that certain smokers are taking the p*ss & having far too many breaks. Another can of worms!!


I really don't care if people smoke their choice..BUT..as I posted this is my gripe too. At a previous place of employment we moaned about a couple of collegues because of this. Managment decided to check their breaks, they were taking on average an HOUR a day in *** breaks, on top of other breaks. That is 5 hours a week,or 260 hours a year. Assuming that person earned at least a minimum of £8ph. Management decided that was £2080 stolen from them the employers, or the equivalent in packs of **** paid for by their work mates who covered them while they skived off:nono:


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *You see,you are only thinking of yourself.Do you think smokers like having to stand out in all weathers just to have a smoke? Yeah we would love a decent evening out to enjoy it how we please,but the do gooders have put a stop to that.
> Typical of what this country has become,dictators.*


LOL - so people concerned about their own health are do-gooders?!!:001_rolleyes: That's a classic!


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

OK, I can stand this no longer.

I just want to point out that not all smokers are as selfish as Janice is making us sound. In fact as a smoker o) I am ashamed to think people reading what Janice types thinks it's the norm for a smokers attitude. I can promise you it isn't at all.

I've smoked since I was 14, that's almost 19 years of smoking. But .... I quit yesterday  I went and collected my Riva 510 E-cig and 30 mins later when I got it out of the box to look and test it ... Well, I haven't had a cig since, and I have no desire to have one either 

I am/was ashamed for anyone to know I smoked. That's because it is shameful! Knowing what we do about the health risks to others around us when we smoke makes it pure and simply a SELFISH habbit/addiction. What would be classed as thinking of others, is finding a solution which means you don't inflict it on others. Now, this could mean smoking only in a place where someone isn't going to breath in your smoke, or finding a way to quit.

I started off with the first option, but now I've gone with the second one 

It's still very early days for me to claim I am an ex analog smoker (having only been 18 hours free), but I do have determination to succeed this time. Besides there is no reason not to! I'm still getting the sensation of smoking, whilst getting the nicotine my body craves. It's just that there is not 'smoke' anymore, just vapour and I'm no longer ingesting the harmful poisons found in cigarettes ... nor am I inflicting them on others 

Yours ... a very sorry  guilt ridden ex analog (hopefully) smoker.

Here is a demo video showing the type of PV (personal vapouriser) I am now using. You can clearly see why it can work, and so far is for me 

[youtube_browser]MMP3qFLzrcY&hd=1[/youtube_browser]


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *You see,you are only thinking of yourself.Do you think smokers like having to stand out in all weathers just to have a smoke? Yeah we would love a decent evening out to enjoy it how we please,but the do gooders have put a stop to that.
> Typical of what this country has become,dictators.*


It is damn annoying for non smokers too, you spend half the evening joining them in the cold or sitting by yourself 
There should be non smoking bars and "You can if you want, because no one will moan " ones too IMVHO


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *You see,you are only thinking of yourself.Do you think smokers like having to stand out in all weathers just to have a smoke? Yeah we would love a decent evening out to enjoy it how we please,but the do gooders have put a stop to that.
> Typical of what this country has become,dictators.*



Well maybe you should have thought of that before you put a *** in your mouth for the first time.

Don't try to blame non smokers for your own stupid habit.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> OK, I can stand this no longer.
> 
> I just want to point out that not all smokers are as selfish as Janice is making us sound. In fact as a smoker o) I am ashamed to think people reading what Janice types thinks it's the norm for a smokers attitude. I can promise you it isn't at all.
> 
> ...


*Get over yourself please.When I post i give MY oppinion and have never said i speak for all smokers,i don't get a damn what others think about me being a smoker.My hubby earns the money thats spent on ****,and all the time we still do have a bit of freedom in this country we will choose how we spend that money.
As for the E **** video nothing i haven't already seen.*


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Tapir said:


> Well maybe you should have thought of that before you put a *** in your mouth for the first time.
> 
> Don't try to blame non smokers for your own stupid habit.


To be fare Tapir, if I had known how bad smoking is for all way back then when I was an impressionable teen ... I would have never started smoking. The discovered real risks of passive smoking and the likes have been a relatively new thing, and certainly in the last 20 years!

But I don't honestly blame you for your reply, I felt almost the same reading Janice's replies ... and I'm/I was a smoker!

Please understand that many of us do not feel the same way as Janice. A heck of a lot of us agree with the smoking ban, and the price hike on cigs. Along with a lot of us trying to find a solution that helps us quit!


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Get over yourself please.When I post i give MY oppinion and have never said i speak for all smokers,i don't get a damn what others think about me being a smoker.My hubby earns the money thats spent on ****,and all the time we still do have a bit of freedom in this country we will choose how we spend that money.
> As for the E **** video nothing i haven't already seen.*


Janice the only one who needs to get over themselves is you!

Going by the replies of none smokers after reading your initial post and subsequent ones ... I do believe their replies are because of people with attitudes like yours!

If you want to continue to smoke putting your health and everyone elses around you in danger ... please do so. But I would hope your conscience would kick in some day and make you want to stop.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> Janice the only one who needs to get over themselves is you!
> 
> Going by the replies of none smokers after reading your initial post and subsequent ones ... I do believe their replies are because of people with attitudes like yours!
> 
> If you want to continue to smoke putting your health and everyone elses around you in danger ... please do so. But I would hope your conscience would kick in some day and make you want to stop.


*lol I did stop for 12 years thankyou,and i didn't need any help.It was my choice to give up and my choice to start again.*


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

OK a little OTT but some smokers have the attitude of a suicide bomber!!! "sure someone will be affected by my desire to kill myself but hey never mind I am exercising my human rights to do what I like, I like the idea of it... pay for it myself out of my wages and therefore I can do what the hell I like"  many other smokers feel that they have a duty to protect others. My auntie would be the 'suicide bomber' my cousin is more of a thoughtful smoker. My husband used to smoke but as I had asthma started cutting back when I was around then soon started giving up all together...was so proud of him!!

I have had friends who find out I have asthma and will move away when they smoke. My ex would blow smoke in my face when I complained he said "if you don't like it dump me" after 3 years I did.

You don't have to apologise Aurelia there are good and bad in all walks of life...you just have more respect for others than some people do. It takes many types to make a society


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## adam87 (Nov 16, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> The thing is, I have the choice if I eat the above, I can do nothing about inhaling a lung full of poison when someone walks past me with a *** in their hands  *Foul* :tongue_smilie:
> 
> You know, it never ceases to amaze me how selfish *some* smokers really are
> 
> *sigh*


You do know smokers fumes are not even 1% of the crap you breathe in each day, the vast majority comes from car exhausts, I want a total driving ban by this logic.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Wow. Glad I don't smoke:blink:


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

Me and my two brothers didnt ask to breath in my mums smoke for years and years, I know that I have breathing problems because of it. And my brother is suffering because of it. 

I used to hate going to school because my uniform stunk of smoke and the other kids used to call me because of it...my uniform was clean, my mums a neat freak but it smelt. Like my brothers does now...

The last thing I wanted growing up was to leave mums to go out for a nice meal with my grandparents and father and end up smelling the same smell I smelt every day in my life. 

The issue is not smokers vs non smokers, the issue is non smokers didnt pick the habit so why should it become ours? 

My mums house is always nice and clean but stinks and she has had to re-paint her wall in the dining room because it was yellow with nicotine and because I attempted to clean it she noticed just how bad it was. 

Aurelia best of luck and I really hope it works out for you, I wish my mother was as strong willed as you are.


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol I did stop for 12 years thankyou,and i didn't need any help.It was my choice to give up and my choice to start again.*


exactly, your choice, so stop moaning


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Tapir said:


> exactly, your choice, so stop moaning


*lol this thread started off by me moaning that the goverment had raised the tax on **** by 30-50p a packet.Now are you saying i can't or shouldn't moan about that? If you are then i will say i don't want to hear anyone moaning about any of their bills.FAIR?*


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> Janice the only one who needs to get over themselves is you!
> 
> Going by the replies of none smokers after reading your initial post and subsequent ones ... I do believe their replies are because of people with attitudes like yours!
> 
> If you want to continue to smoke putting your health and everyone elses around you in danger ... please do so. But I would hope your conscience would kick in some day and make you want to stop.


Wouldn't waste my breathe personally Aurelia! You know the saying you can take a horse to water................

My take on this is its not about smokers verus none smokers! ANYONE can smoke if they so wish! What bugs me is th attitude that some have when illustrating THEIR rights! Just would hope that if I am EVER so pig headed about it when and if I EVER smoke that someone slaps me!

The posts made by some have left no doubt in my mind what selfish human beings they are!!!

And there is NO need whatsoever for you to apolygise to anyone!

Thats me done on this one!

DT


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol this thread started off by me moaning that the goverment had raised the tax on **** by 30-50p a packet.Now are you saying i can't or shouldn't moan about that? If you are then i will say i don't want to hear anyone moaning about any of their bills.FAIR?*


I would moan about the increase! don't see a problem in that! And it is a good thread! t'is seeing yourself as hard done because of the increase and questioning why fuel cannot be targeted that extracts the urine !

On reflection - Do you still honetly believe that that was a rational thing for a human being to say! Do you seriously?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

*Not only is smoking an addictive habit it is also an influencial habit!* 

YouTube - Smoking Dog


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## Tapir (Mar 20, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol this thread started off by me moaning that the goverment had raised the tax on **** by 30-50p a packet.Now are you saying i can't or shouldn't moan about that? If you are then i will say i don't want to hear anyone moaning about any of their bills.FAIR?*


well no, I was actually supposed to quote the comment about having to stand outside aswell.

That's a pointless comment RE: bills anyway. You choose to smoke, people don't choose to have bills.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I would moan about the increase! don't see a problem in that! And it is a good thread! t'is seeing yourself as hard done because of the increase and questioning why fuel cannot be targeted that extracts the urine !
> 
> On reflection - Do you still honetly believe that that was a rational thing for a human being to say! Do you seriously?


*Why not reread the thread?Perhaps you will get abetter picture.



Tapir said:



well no, I was actually supposed to quote the comment about having to stand outside aswell.

That's a pointless comment RE: bills anyway. You choose to smoke, people don't choose to have bills.

Click to expand...

Again i'm laughing,how many moan about their bills but still have luxuries?:*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

This thread was started moaning about the increase on cigarettes and yes smokers are going to moan, because the more they cost the bigger revenue the government recieves, they are bad for you and those around you if you smoke amongst non smokers that is. Why dont they ban them, it seemes the larger part of the country is against them, the nhs and the government, yet they wont because of the ammount of money they generate. BAN them and no one will have a problem, dont think so.

The thread wasnt started as a debate into where, when or why or for people to tell us how stupid we are, its gone that way and tbh that doesnt bother me at all, but why get so personal?

Also i would like to ask all you non smokers where do you go where anyone smoking is a problem, where do people smoke around you risking your health, ime curious because i cant see now after the smoking ban that i ever inflict this awful,filthy habit on anyone.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol I did stop for 12 years thankyou,and i didn't need any help. It was my choice to give up and my choice to start again. *


+



JANICE199 said:


> *lol this thread started off by me moaning that the goverment had raised the tax on **** by 30-50p a packet.Now are you saying i can't or shouldn't moan about that? If you are then i will say i don't want to hear anyone moaning about any of their bills.FAIR?*


So it was your choice to start again, knowing full well it's a taxable product and the tax does increase usually every year.

So why are you moaning again? :lol:

To compare this to the rising costs of bills is just daft!


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## sarybeagle (Nov 4, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> l?
> 
> Also i would like to ask all you non smokers where do you go where anyone smoking is a problem, where do people smoke around you risking your health, ime curious because i cant see now after the smoking ban that i ever inflict this awful,filthy habit on anyone.


Most clients I go into smoke (im a carer for the elderly) 3 this morning alone were smoking when I arrived or lit up whilst I was in their home. Yes the law is meant to cover me but is impossible to enforce when I am in someones home. Why should I be smoked around when I am there to care for them and don't?

these clients know the time I arrive and leave yet still light up even though we have a no smoking policy and they have been asked to refrain one hour before their visit is due.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

sarybeagle said:


> Most clients I go into smoke (im a carer for the elderly) 3 this morning alone were smoking when I arrived or lit up whilst I was in their home. Yes the law is meant to cover me but is impossible to enforce when I am in someones home. Why should I be smoked around when I am there to care for them and don't?
> 
> these clients know the time I arrive and leave yet still light up even though we have a no smoking policy and they have been asked to refrain one hour before their visit is due.


Then i would stand outside until they have finished their cigarette, 2/3 minutes at the most and would have to come off their time.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Not sure how people can compare the tax on cigarettes to that on petrol. The 1p decrease means nothing to the consumer when petrol prices fluctuate from one day to another. The price of petrol has increased since last week, 1.31 at my local petrol station last wednesday, today 1.34


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## sarybeagle (Nov 4, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Then i would stand outside until they have finished their cigarette, 2/3 minutes at the most and would have to come off their time.


that would work in theory for a social services funded client but my private clients would soon be moaning like hell over the fact they are getting "short changed" and no it wouldn't stop them lighting up instead. 95 year olds are very stubborn people 

plus one lady spent a good 5 mins almost smoking today whilst I ended up waiting for her and then had another after getting dressed so 10 mins of my 30 was wasted twiddling thumbs. Her entire room was thick with stale smoke-she doesn't open windows or doors as its too cold, why should a carer have to work in that?

Im there for 1 hour a day and she could smoke as many as she likes between the rest of the day but why when im there?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> +
> 
> So it was your choice to start again, knowing full well it's a taxable product and the tax does increase usually every year.
> 
> ...


*Thats your oppinion.But imo if you drive don't start moaning about the price of fuel.I chose to have a moan about the price of ****,now why the hell would the non smokers be interested?*


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

I agree that the tax on cigarettes has gone beyond a joke.

As far as the cost to society goes, where smoking is concerned society wins by a long shot. I don't remember the exact figures unfortunately but I'm fairly certain that whilst smoking related illnesses cost the NHS millions, the revenue generated from cigarettes is in the billions! Without that money the NHS along with other public services would be in a far worse state than they already are.
It has also been pointed out in the past that although smokers get more of certain illnesses (lung cancer etc) which obviously cost money to treat, they also tend to die younger - meaning they usually do not need to be treated for the many diseases common in extreme old age. So even this is just swings and roundabouts - spend more during middle age but save in dotage.

Not to mention that smokers - like everyone else - still pay all their other taxes, national insurance etc. It's not like we're getting a free ride.

We already contribute to our healthcare in this respect. If anyone believes that smokers should pay more because their problems may be "self-inflicted" then the same should also be said for those who drink, drive, have "dangerous" pastimes or hobbies, are over or underweight, get sunburnt, etc.

I am a bit annoyed that I started smoking again, but while I am that is my choice. I don't have a carer or anyone else who has to visit my smokey home - the only people who share my smokers home or car are my invited guests, who know I smoke and choose to come in anyway. Their choice. I don't smoke in public buildings - as that's illegal now anyway - and I don't smoke around kids.

My home, my body my choice. I don't object to paying tax on cigarettes at all - but I do object to being robbed blind!!


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

At the end of the day we all have bad habits like smoking, drinking, shopping etc!!! 

But that doesnt mean that we should be happy about the price increase that they keep shoving on us!! It still doesnt make it right does it?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*A few facts.
"Consumer spending on tobacco products in 2009 amounted to an estimated £13.4 billion, around 90% of this on cigarettes.
Tax revenue from tobacco in 2009/10 amounted to an estimated £10.5 billion  £8.8 billion in excise duty plus £1.7 billion in VAT."
UK tobacco market summary » Tobacco Manufacturers' Association*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Ime just interested to know how someone can be a risk through passive smoking nowadays, SB has replied as its her job in a clients own house then thats a difficult one, but i smoke and can honestly say my smoking puts no one at risk, so why is it an issue for so many people.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> Ime just interested to know how someone can be a risk through passive smoking nowadays, SB has replied as its her job in a clients own house then thats a difficult one, but i smoke and can honestly say my smoking puts no one at risk, so why is it an issue for so many people.


The only way passive smoking is a risk is if you live with someone, or around someone all the time that smokes, this whole i was at a bus stop etc and asked someone to move because they were smoking is absolutely crap, the pollution all around us is doing us a lot worse for our health and you dont see us all staying in our houses and locking our windows!!


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

I get alot of grief for this at work. It's like ''You know I don't set the prices right?'' *sigh*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *A few facts.
> "Consumer spending on tobacco products in 2009 amounted to an estimated £13.4 billion, around 90% of this on cigarettes.
> Tax revenue from tobacco in 2009/10 amounted to an estimated £10.5 billion - £8.8 billion in excise duty plus £1.7 billion in VAT."
> UK tobacco market summary » Tobacco Manufacturers' Association*


Yeah and 20% of that directly costs the NHS money in people being ill. The NHS get nowhere near 20% of the money from **** in funding. The government don't just screw over smokers. And drinkers. And people who drive cars. Its the NHS too.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

haeveymolly said:


> Ime just interested to know how someone can be a risk through passive smoking nowadays, SB has replied as its her job in a clients own house then thats a difficult one, but i smoke and can honestly say my smoking puts no one at risk, so why is it an issue for so many people.


Despite not smoking anymore & not liking the smell (but then I also don't like the smell of meat cooking) I don't think I am at risk of passive smoking anywhere since the ban & don't think that smokers should be too stigmatised. I also don't think people should apologise for being a smoker - I know alot of people who do & don't think they should be ashamed of it at all.

I just find that some people's attitudes regarding their 'right' to smoke around anyone they choose & in any place they want to unbeliveably selfish now knowing that there are are huge risks to health.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

KathrynH said:


> At the end of the day we all have bad habits like smoking, drinking, shopping etc!!!
> 
> But that doesnt mean that we should be happy about the price increase that they keep shoving on us!! It still doesnt make it right does it?


As a country I think we have a lot to moan about, as part of the EU we are nowhere near equal! Our fuel, smokes and Drink are ALL way overpriced next to other EU countries! And our pensioners are some of the poorest! Our interest rates (on savings are some of the lowest) Our weather some of the coldest! (the Government would no doubt start taxing the sunshine if we got more) Out council tax refuse collection is NOT on par with some of the other countries either - yet we are charged through the nose for it! Our water, dispite the rainfall is not only overcharged for but is also rationed if we are lucky enough to have a warm weekend! Our phone and utility bills are amongt the highest and our public transport not as good as some either!Sadly - that is how things are in the UK! but it can't be that bad - there are still folk that would give their right home to come here!


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> Despite not smoking anymore & not liking the smell (but then I also don't like the smell of meat cooking) I don't think I am at risk of passive smoking anywhere since the ban & don't think that smokers should be too stigmatised. I also don't think people should apologise for being a smoker - I know alot of people who do & don't think they should be ashamed of it at all.
> 
> I just find that some people's attitudes regarding their 'right' to smoke around anyone they choose & in any place they want to unbeliveably selfish now knowing that there are are huge risks to health.


But I feel we are stigmatised being called smelly and stinky and being told what a filthy habit it is,I think anti smokers have gone way over the top now they've got some ammunition a bit like the dog hating brigade:001_smile:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

suewhite said:


> But I feel we are stigmatised being called smelly and stinky and being told what a filthy habit it is,I think anti smokers have gone way over the top now they've got some ammunition a bit like the dog hating brigade:001_smile:


Its people's opinions though, which can't really be wrong. Personally I feel like smoke really does linger in hair. Two of the girls I go to uni with smoke and not even that many a day probably only 5-10 but you can smell the smoke on both of them if you walk behind them inside or if its not very breezey outside.

I'm quite used to the smell of **** as my Dad smoked a lot and so have both sets of grandparents. I don't think its rank but I can see why people who are not used to it would, and most people do view the smell of smoke as a not very nice one, I wouldn't want to smell of smoke. So I totally understand why people say and feel that way really. I don't much like the smell of an alcoholics breath either tbf


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> Its people's opinions though, which can't really be wrong. Personally I feel like smoke really does linger in hair. Two of the girls I go to uni with smoke and not even that many a day probably only 5-10 but you can smell the smoke on both of them if you walk behind them inside or if its not very breezey outside.
> 
> I'm quite used to the smell of **** as my Dad smoked a lot and so have both sets of grandparents. I don't think its rank but I can see why people who are not used to it would, and most people do view the smell of smoke as a not very nice one, I wouldn't want to smell of smoke. So I totally understand why people say and feel that way really. I don't much like the smell of an alcoholics breath either tbf


*I understand its peoples oppinions but this thread was not intended to be smokers v non smokers but thats what its turned into.Mention **** and the anti smokers can't wait to have their moan,but condem me for moaning about the price of ****.*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I understand its peoples oppinions but this thread was not intended to be smokers v non smokers but thats what its turned into.Mention **** and the anti smokers can't wait to have their moan,but condem me for moaning about the price of ****.*


Well I don't think I did that, think I stayed more on money side of things 

I guess a lot of people just feel very strongly about it. Not the first time a thread has gone slightly off tangent and wont be the last.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

suewhite said:


> But I feel we are stigmatised being called smelly and stinky and being told what a filthy habit it is,I think anti smokers have gone way over the top now they've got some ammunition a bit like the dog hating brigade:001_smile:


The trouble is Sue ... it's true! It does stink and make people smelly, and it is a filthy habbit. That's why I was ashamed to be a smoker on top of the health reasons for all concerend.


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

I must just generally pong! If not of smoke then of alcohol or garlic! 

I'm very paranoid about smelling of smoke, I'm one of only a couple of smokers where I work and after every ciggy I make sure I wash my hands spray a tad of perfume and eat some mints. I'm not naive enough to think it completely hides it but I'd hate to think I smell like an old ashtray.

I hate the smell of smoke, my OH and I both only smoke in our kitchen with the window open, the rest of our house is strictly no smoking for us and everyone else.

So why don't I stop? I've tried! I find it incredibly difficult, not to mention the NRT's are bloomin expensive (I know its only short term), I enjoy a ciggy, after dinner, with a pint or a coffee. I don't expect sympathy but a bit of understanding is very much appreciated. Smoking is an addiction like any other.

I pay duty on alcohol, duty on ciggies and vat on luxury food items so I think the govt get their fair share out of me and having worked and paid taxes my whole life I do not have one iota of guilt regarding how much I 'may' cost the NHS in the future. Without all us bad asses the country wouldn't have as much cash as it does. The govt will never ban smoking which is what they would do if they really wanted everyone to stop. They couldn't afford it, simple as!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

The government could afford it easy as pie, its just easier for them to hit smokers because the majority of people wont complain with that (I think I know more smokers who don't like smoking and non smokers than smokers who do not wish to stop). Plus there are people like my Papa who is 86 and likes to smoke and when he started they had no idea it was bad, hence trying to make someone like him give up many would say (even myself as a non smoker) is unfair. I don't think anyone should be forced to give up but I think smokers have to expect to be hit hard, its just a ridiculously easy market for the government to exploit and whilst smoking remains bad for people's health they will continue to do it.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

ClaireLily said:


> I must just generally pong! If not of smoke then of alcohol or garlic!
> 
> I'm very paranoid about smelling of smoke, I'm one of only a couple of smokers where I work and after every ciggy I make sure I wash my hands spray a tad of perfume and eat some mints. I'm not naive enough to think it completely hides it but I'd hate to think I smell like an old ashtray.
> 
> ...


Did you watch the vid I posted earlier?  It's the answer I've been looking for for years! I've tried a few different ways to quit, but this is the only one that mimics the habit effectivly enough while still giving you a dose of Nicotene which stops you craving more than the habit itself.

I've put mine in the place my cigs usually go, so I'm effectively just swapping for a neater, cleaner, less smelly, cheaper, healthier replacement


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> The trouble is Sue ... it's true! It does stink and make people smelly, and it is a filthy habbit. That's why I was ashamed to be a smoker on top of the health reasons for all concerend.


*As i've said why would anti smokers bother to come on this thread? Start one on anti smoking if your that botherd.*


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *As i've said why would anti smokers bother to come on this thread? Start one on anti smoking if your that botherd.*


Maybe because its a forum and open to general discussion! Never saw no rules telling us where we could and couldn't post!

BUT If any (new rules) have been introduced of late would one of you kind folk be kind enuff to pm em to me please!


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Janice I was a smoker until yesterday, and I'm far from out of the woods from it being a permanent thing!

Besides who are you to think you get to pick an choose who can comment where? :lol:

I've every right to moan about the people moaning about something which is totally their choice to do :lol:

I'm not anti smoking anyway. I don't lie to myself either though  I think anyone who chooses to pick up a cigarette and smoke it for the first time in this day when information and facts are rife about how dangerous they are is a fool.

This is barring of course, those younger than perhaps 21 and those who have been a smoker in the past only to return to it years later. When you think about it it's like alcoholism, you can get clean but you are only on the wagon, you're still and alcoholic and can slip off at any time.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Maybe because its a forum and open to general discussion! Never saw no rules telling us where we could and couldn't post!
> 
> BUT If any (new rules) have been introduced of late would one of you kind folk be kind enuff to pm em to me please!


*You know as well as i do THERE IS a rule about staying on topic.This has gone from the price of **** to non smokers v smokers.
Now i'll say this as nicely as i can.Back on topic FFS.*


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Janice, it's all relative 

We haven't gone from talking about the price of **** to what the weather is like today. Now that would be off topic.

You (I think) just don't like the fact that people are less than sympathetic to you moaning about the price of **** going up. Which is understandable, but it is an interesting subject none the less.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> Janice, it's all relative
> 
> We haven't gone from talking about the price of **** to what the weather is like today. Now that would be off topic.
> 
> You (I think) just don't like the fact that people are less than sympathetic to you moaning about the price of **** going up. Which is understandable, but it is an interesting subject none the less.


*That is not the case at all as well you know.I object to people using my thread for something it wasn't intended for.Now if nobody has anything to add about the price of **** then start you own topic.*


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## ClaireLily (Jul 8, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> The government could afford it easy as pie, its just easier for them to hit smokers because the majority of people wont complain with that (I think I know more smokers who don't like smoking and non smokers than smokers who do not wish to stop). Plus there are people like my Papa who is 86 and likes to smoke and when he started they had no idea it was bad, hence trying to make someone like him give up many would say (even myself as a non smoker) is unfair. I don't think anyone should be forced to give up but I think smokers have to expect to be hit hard, its just a ridiculously easy market for the government to exploit and whilst smoking remains bad for people's health they will continue to do it.


In 2009 smoking cost the NHS £5billion, the revenue raised from the sale of tobacco was £10billion!

Smoking costs NHS £5bn a year - Health News, Health & Families - The Independent

Tax revenue from tobacco » Tobacco Manufacturers&#039; Association

So quite clearly smokers are helping to fund the NHS!

Yes we are an easy target but like I said, if we are such a drain on resources ban tobacco, it will never happen!!

Cardiovascular disease costs the NHS more than tobacco related illness, so tax the fatties (I include myself in this at a portly size 16)!!!

Anyone ever wonder why in countries such as Italy and Spain where more people smoke than not, that their life expectancy is actually longer than here where the non-smoking brigade rule? In case anyone is stuck with this its DIET related!!!


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Please keep it on topic ladies and gents


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I smoke.. £6.55 for 20 Lambert and Butler this morning..  Yesterday they were £6.05..

Woman in shop said they will go up again yet.. this was just the supplier putting on a bit.. a bit..  she said the producers haven't put there bit on yet..


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

momentofmadness said:


> I smoke.. £6.55 for 20 Lambert and Butler this morning..  Yesterday they were £6.05..
> 
> Woman in shop said they will go up again yet.. this was just the supplier putting on a bit.. a bit..  she said the producers haven't put there bit on yet..


*I buy 200 at a time which came to £49 + next week there will be an extra £5 on top of that.
I can't understand why some went up 30p and others 50P.*


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *I buy 200 at a time which came to £49 + next week there will be an extra £5 on top of that.
> I can't understand why some went up 30p and others 50P.*


Is this not for 10 pack and 20 pack? Or just randomly two different packs of the same quantity?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *I buy 200 at a time which came to £49 + next week there will be an extra £5 on top of that.
> I can't understand why some went up 30p and others 50P.*


Cause all the prices haven't been added on yet..  im gonna have to quit.. 
Its just to expensive.. As im sat here having a drag..


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> I smoke.. £6.55 for 20 Lambert and Butler this morning..  Yesterday they were £6.05..
> 
> Woman in shop said they will go up again yet.. this was just the supplier putting on a bit.. a bit..  she said the producers haven't put there bit on yet..


£4.58 of that is tax on our ciggies


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

I know how hard it is too give up smoking i used to smoke 30 a day and if it wasnt for my ill health would probably still be doing it now. 

Unfortunately the government know exactly how to get the MONEY off people because they know how many people smoke, drink etc so just keep putting the prices up as much as they want too and the suppliers do the same, they are using people addictions as a means to get money and it is DISGUSTING!!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

suewhite said:


> £4.58 of that is tax on our ciggies


I was only paying a fiver a packet till last month... 

But the lad getting me mine and lots of other peoples.. Unfortunate for me.. he got pulled..  with £3000 worth of ****..


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


Tanya1989 said:



Is this not for 10 pack and 20 pack? Or just randomly two different packs of the same quantity?

Click to expand...

It depends on the brand of cigarettes,but the price is for a pack of 20.



momentofmadness said:



Cause all the prices haven't been added on yet..  im gonna have to quit.. 
Its just to expensive.. As im sat here having a drag.. 

Click to expand...

lol i've lost count of how many i've had today.*


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> It depends on the brand of cigarettes,but the price is for a pack of 20.
> 
> lol i've lost count of how many i've had today.*


I finished my 20 deck from last night and opened my new one 3 **** ago..


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

ClaireLily said:


> In 2009 smoking cost the NHS £5billion, the revenue raised from the sale of tobacco was £10billion!
> 
> Smoking costs NHS £5bn a year - Health News, Health & Families - The Independent
> 
> ...


I stated, the cost to the NHS is 20% the figures Jan posted in her post. All I then stated, was that the NHS get screwed over too because they do not get 20% the money from cigarettes to their hospitals to care for people. They have to use a chunk of money from their funding each year and I for one think that the money to fund smokers should come directly from the tax on **** instead of going to the government.

I never said smokers do not help fund the NHS 

I help fund the NHS. My family have worked in the NHS for years and my brother helps to keep hospitals open and running and interviews staff for the NHS. We all help the NHS.

There are many people who eat junk food etc and do not cost the NHS any money through it which is why they would never put a huge tax on food. Its subjective as to what and how much you eat unless you literally want to tax people who are over weight and not the food but again weight can be an issue for many who have more underlying problems and need to deal with why they eat.

But that takes it off topic so I would like to resume to the original topic and reiterate that I think the tax from **** should go directly to the NHS instead of in the back of the governments pocket at the very least


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## toria (Aug 9, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> 
> It depends on the brand of cigarettes,but the price is for a pack of 20.
> 
> lol i've lost count of how many i've had today.*


I haven't read all the thread janice so i apologise if i am going off topic,but i do believe even abroad ciggies have gone up as well,not as much as here in the uk but still up.

I think all ciggies are going to be pretty much the same price now,even the lower priced ciggies im sure i heard mention will have to come into line with the big players...i could be wrong i only heard it for a short while.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

KathrynH said:


> I know how hard it is too give up smoking i used to smoke 30 a day and if it wasnt for my ill health would probably still be doing it now.
> 
> Unfortunately the government know exactly how to get the MONEY off people because they know how many people smoke, drink etc so just keep putting the prices up as much as they want too and the suppliers do the same, they are using people addictions as a means to get money and it is DISGUSTING!!


What would happen if everyone quite.. I mean how much money would the government not be getting..


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

momentofmadness said:


> I was only paying a fiver a packet till last month...
> 
> But the lad getting me mine and lots of other peoples.. Unfortunate for me.. he got pulled..  with £3000 worth of ****..


*God that made me laugh,sorry.I think the quota to bring into the country is 3200 per person from europe that is.
People will start bootlegging again if this keeps up.*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

How much does the average person smoke, is it 10-20 a day? Damn that is expensive if its round about that amount 

No wonder the girls at uni only smoke a few a day at that price! I've heard people say its cheaper to roll your own **** are they not as good? My Dad always had roll ups.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> What would happen if everyone quite.. I mean how much money would the government not be getting..


Thats it, they know damn well that would NEVER happen, it is an addiction the same as drink and they know they will always be able to put there prices up and people will ALWAYS have to pay them!!! 

Just like petrol, sorry to go off topic but i just mean that they KNOW that lots of people HAVE to drive so they can stick there petrol prices up as much as they like they know the public will HAVE to pay it x


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Just don't shoot the messengers  Had a guy give me a right shouting down when he came in to buy his SK blue and it's £7.71 now. He told me I was ripping him off and that I'm a thief while I tried to calmly tell him the people on the tills don't set the prices. Had a woman in yesterday writing down our prices to compare to the shop she worked at saying they were dealing with the same thing. I'm personally glad I don't smoke. I don't know how people managed this time last year and I definitely don't know how people manage to continue now! Hopefully I'll find a job where I don't have to serve cigarettes or alcohol soon or I'll be facing a lynch mob next year


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *God that made me laugh,sorry.I think the quota to bring into the country is 3200 per person from europe that is.
> People will start bootlegging again if this keeps up.*


I think he got greedy.. If you image in Spain where he was getting them from.. it was £37.00 for 200.. In October.. I was paying £3.75 for a single 20 pack..

Well he had a lot of customers as you can imagine so it was gonna happen to him sooner or later.. Im just a bit gutted as I am a smoker...


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*


momentofmadness said:



What would happen if everyone quite.. I mean how much money would the government not be getting.. 

Click to expand...

My hubby said that to me earlier and he doesn't smoke.



momentofmadness said:



I think he got greedy.. If you image in Spain where he was getting them from.. it was £37.00 for 200.. In October.. I was paying £3.75 for a single 20 pack..

Well he had a lot of customers as you can imagine so it was gonna happen to him sooner or later.. Im just a bit gutted as I am a smoker...

Click to expand...

The goverment imo has shot itself in the foot on this.Its not that expensive to go over to France and get **** and booze.So if we started doing that again,how much will this country loose out on?*


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

A couple of years ago I was at centre parcs sherwood forest spa! I was with my daughter and I had not smoked for a few weeks! my daughter is a occassional smoker - but had none! she really really wanted one - and consequently got me wanting one! so we went to the shop! In Centre PArcs there is a monopoly and all the ciggs sold there are old via vending machine!

The price was!!!! two years ago remembr - £7.20 for a packet of 18
and muggins here brought a pack!


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

No more expensive cigs for me  I went from smoking proper stick cigs when they hit the £4.50 mark for 20 Mayfair SK, to buying 2 x50g bags of Golden Virginia @ about £13 each a week ...something like this:

£300 (ish) a month for Mayfair SK
£140 (ish) a month for roll up supplies and tobacco
£90 (tops) Riva 510 set up, plus loads of E-liquid that will probably last me 6 weeks+. Also the Riva kit is a £33.99 chunk of that, which I may only need to replace once very couple of months too.

It's been over 24hours now since my last proper cig  I still don't want one!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Aurelia said:


> No more expensive cigs for me  I went from smoking proper stick cigs when they hit the £4.50 mark for 20 Mayfair SK, to buying 2 x50g bags of Golden Virginia @ about £13 each a week ...something like this:
> 
> £300 (ish) a month for Mayfair SK
> £140 (ish) a month for roll up supplies and tobacco
> ...


My mate has one of these E-cigarette things, he reckons its great, he said there's loads of other 'flavours' to choose from, sounded yummy


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

simplysardonic said:


> My mate has one of these E-cigarette things, he reckons its great, he said there's loads of other 'flavours' to choose from, sounded yummy


It is and there is! I'm currently vaping strawberry mixed with Golden Virginia. I had coffee flavour last night and Red Bull flavour early yesterday evening.

I think I'll be trying Italian cake or *chocolate* tonight


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Aurelia said:


> It is and there is! I'm currently vaping strawberry mixed with Golden Virginia. I had coffee flavour last night and Red Bull flavour early yesterday evening.
> 
> I think I'll be trying Italian cake or *chocolate* tonight


chocolate:drool:
I wonder if they would alleviate my chocolate cravings


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

No good for me unless there is Dr Pepper one... But hey if there was I could kill two birds with one stone..


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

I think there is you know  I do like the simple tabacco flavoured E-liquid, but must admit all these lovely flavours are going down nice as well.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> I think there is you know  I do like the simple tabacco flavoured E-liquid, but must admit all these lovely flavours are going down nice as well.


I must admit smoking Dr P does not really appeal..

There is a thread which someone started on these Ecigs or whatever they are..  all the flavours etc on there.. never spotted Dr P


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> No good for me unless there is Dr Pepper one... But hey if there was I could kill two birds with one stone..


If there ain't they will mix one! but failing all else you can talk sweetly to hawksport and he will make some!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*"There is a worrying lack of safety data on electronic cigarettes, despite their growing popularity."
"The Department of Health is not aware of any evidence about the long-term safety of e-cigarettes and, as such, would suggest that consumers exercise caution"
BBC News - Proof lacking on e-cigarettes' safety, experts warn
*
*And when these take the place of real **** i wonder if the goverment will slap high taxes on them too.*


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *"There is a worrying lack of safety data on electronic cigarettes, despite their growing popularity."
> "The Department of Health is not aware of any evidence about the long-term safety of e-cigarettes and, as such, would suggest that consumers exercise caution"
> BBC News - Proof lacking on e-cigarettes' safety, experts warn
> *
> *And when these take the place of real **** i wonder if the goverment will slap high taxes on them too.*


That were published just prior to the MHRA consultations I believe, when there was speculation of the the e cig being banned this was the outcome!

MLXs: Medicines consultation letters : MHRA

the danger I see i if the e cigs are EVER recognised as a stop smoking aid (which no one claims them to be) then the UK will insist on the large phamasutical companies manufacturing the liquid! Then yes! the price will no doubt spiral.

I have tried several different versions - guess what Ihave found is you get what you pay for - the more you pay - the more effective the results! thats how iyt has been for me anyway!


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

I read several articles on the E-cig over the last week or so. It makes me laugh because the titles always seem to indicate there is something to fear. But if you read it properly there is usually statement somewhere that while there are minute traces of certain things in the E-cig, it is by far much safe than analog cigarettes! That alone should be reason to endorse them surely?

No they wont, the tobacco industry is far far too rich an industry to destroy. Now, what would be good is if the tobacco manufacturers started their own lines in e-cigs  with aim of eventually phasing out analog C-sticks.

Interesting how you took your own thread OT Janice and back on within one post :lol:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> I read several articles on the E-cig over the last week or so. It makes me laugh because the titles always seem to indicate there is something to fear. But if you read it properly there is usually statement somewhere that while there are minute traces of certain things in the E-cig, it is by far much safe than analog cigarettes! That alone should be reason to endorse them surely?
> 
> No they wont, the tobacco industry is far far too rich an industry to destroy. Now, what would be good is if the tobacco manufacturers started their own lines in e-cigs  with aim of eventually phasing out analog C-sticks.
> 
> Interesting how you took your own thread OT Janice and back on within one post :lol:


I'll tell ya something, your too pig ingnorant to waste my time on.People like you have nothing better to do than try and upset others.You want to ruin the thread? ok you've done it...HAPPY? I'd rather stink of smoke and be myself than lower myself to yours or ya sidekicks level.:ciappa::dita::dita:


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)




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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> I'll tell ya something, your too pig ingnorant to waste my time on.People like you have nothing better to do than try and upset others.You want to ruin the thread? ok you've done it...HAPPY? I'd rather stink of smoke and be myself than lower myself to yours or ya sidekicks level.:ciappa::dita::dita:


Eh? 

I can tell you I'm not ingnorant[sic], nor am I trying to upset anyone!

I have a sidekick ... Who? ::blink:

You're funny! :lol:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

If people choose to smoke thats up to them, It does smell but thats also up to them. 
Unfortunatly it is expensive and the price continues to rise and thats unlucky and even a little unfair..... however if you choose to do it then you have to pay for it, they have you over a barrel your addicted and they can charge what they like.... the answer is break the addiction then it costs you NOTHING and pi$$es on the govenments stawberries so to speak

You choose to do it, its expensive but you 'choose' to do it so unlucky, no one makes you do it


Dont think of the cost think of your health


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Aurelia said:


> Eh?
> 
> I can tell you I'm not ingnorant[sic], nor am I trying to upset anyone!
> 
> ...


*Yes you are ignorant,have no manners,probably over weight but don't stink,or spend your well earned money on ****,albeit only for a day so far.Now the thread is yours.Now i've spoken my mind the thread will probably be closed.Whereas when the non smokers started the insults nothing was done.*


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Yes you are ignorant,have no manners,probably over weight but don't stink,or spend your well earned money on ****,albeit only for a day so far.Now the thread is yours.Now i've spoken my mind the thread will probably be closed.Whereas when the non smokers started the insults nothing was done.*


Jan I'm sorry but saying smokers smell isnt an insult unfortunatly its a fact of smoking. It does smell. You cant really hide the fact it does. Its the opinions of the non smokers it does smell and you of all people are in favour of people having there own opinions.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

I am not going to close this, it is a subject that is close to many a person's heart whether smoker or not. I have never smoked nor intend to start but that was my decision, my father was a forty a day man for many many years but just gave up when he felt the time was right - he didnt find it easy but did it for us kids !!! Again his choice BUT I do feel that it is a lot to put on a packet, my brother is a smoker and I know he thinks it unfair, if they put the tax on pet food I am sure that we would all be shouting the odds 

Please can you keep this thread on track, I believe we have many smokers with us and probably not so many NON smokers, but just remember us non smokers probably have vices that they dont


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Yes you are ignorant,have no manners,probably over weight but don't stink,or spend your well earned money on ****,albeit only for a day so far.Now the thread is yours.Now i've spoken my mind the thread will probably be closed.Whereas when the non smokers started the insults nothing was done.*


What the hell?  but ... :lol:

How have I no manners? Why bring weight into it? .. as for the rest ... :lol:

You really are funny Janice, you should do stand up 

Like you say I've only been a none smoker of analog cigs for 30 hours now, so really I'm not a none smoker yet, just 'on the wagon' so to speak. But I won't lie to myself like I said earlier Janice. It does stink and make you smelly as a result. That is only one down side of many that comes with smoking cigs. It's also one of the many reasons why I've taken the steps I have to quit.

I hope by this time next year I can drop the nicotine in the E-cigs too  Then I'll be completely free.

Can I ask, do you honestly like being a smoker? Or do you think that way because it's the only way to accept the addiction? I ask because I went through a phase like that after quitting cold turkey for a few weeks years ago. We had a weekend camping trip and I was being so good until someone offered me one. That was it after that, straight back to smoking 30-40 cigs a day  I kept on trying to justify the slip back onto cigs by saying it was a choice  albeit a stupid one.


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

ClaireLouise said:


> If people choose to smoke thats up to them, It does smell but thats also up to them.
> Unfortunatly it is expensive and the price continues to rise and thats unlucky and even a little unfair..... however if you choose to do it then you have to pay for it, they have you over a barrel your addicted and they can charge what they like.... the answer is break the addiction then it costs you NOTHING and pi$$es on the govenments stawberries so to speak
> 
> You choose to do it, its expensive but you 'choose' to do it so unlucky, no one makes you do it
> ...


do you drink,well if you do you'd better stop,think of the damage you're doing

do you drive,better stop also.....you're breathing in fumes...and forget the school run

do you go to a bonfire on the 5th of november.......well thats a no go zone now....that smokes one hell of a lot more toxic than tobacco smoke

and dont eat fast foods...way too fatty

do you work,well you better reconsider the amount of tax you're paying..pay more because eventually you'll suffer from repetitive strain injury

do you eat lots of veg,well just think of the pesticides used

your mobile phone,those radio waves can mess your brain up

everything we do could land us in hospital,its just fashionable to punish smokers right now.....thatcher hammered smokers,now shes on the board of marlboro

apartheid is now abolished except in britain where smokers are outcasts


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

If people didn't smoke then the government will get the money some other way, like higher taxes anyways!


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## adam87 (Nov 16, 2010)

Smoking is more addictive than heroine, giving up when everywhere you buy your shopping is selling them to you is impossible for many.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

adam87 said:


> Smoking is more addictive than heroine, giving up when everywhere you buy your shopping is selling them to you is impossible for many.


I doubt I would ever rob any one for a pack of ****.. But it is well known round here for heroin users to rob items and sell them to people to pay for there habit..


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

skyblue said:


> do you drink,well if you do you'd better stop,think of the damage you're doing
> 
> do you drive,better stop also.....you're breathing in fumes...and forget the school run
> 
> ...


Im an ex smoker, I paid tax on what I smoked. I drink, I pay tax on what I drink without complaining.
There is proof mobile phones do nothing to affect your brain.
I drive a car that is considered eco friendly and ive never had a bonfire  


adam87 said:


> Smoking is more addictive than heroine, giving up when everywhere you buy your shopping is selling them to you is impossible for many.


Its not impossible at all. I was a heavy smoker and I stopped. I see people daily whp have smoked 50+ years and stop. My OH mother smoked very heavily for 60 years an has stopped.... its possible and there is the support out there. Think of your health!!!


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## adam87 (Nov 16, 2010)

That's why I said impossible for many people not all.

I'd need a padded cell for 2 months, because without nicotine I'd snap at rude customers and be out of the job, I'd loose my girlfriend and home due to being argumentative, I'd put on 3 stone for constant hunger.

No nicotine means hungry, horny (round the clock, no way to stop it), and very angry.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

adam87 said:


> er.
> 
> No nicotine means hungry, horny (round the clock, no way to stop it),


Im giving up cigs now.. :lol:


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

adam87 said:


> That's why I said impossible for many people not all.
> 
> I'd need a padded cell for 2 months, because without nicotine I'd snap at rude customers and be out of the job, I'd loose my girlfriend and home due to being argumentative, I'd put on 3 stone for constant hunger.
> 
> No nicotine means hungry, horny (round the clock, no way to stop it), and very angry.


thats a myth


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Yes you are ignorant,have no manners,probably over weight but don't stink,or spend your well earned money on ****,albeit only for a day so far.Now the thread is yours.Now i've spoken my mind the thread will probably be closed.Whereas when the non smokers started the insults nothing was done.*


Allowed to speak our mind now are we! Does that include personal insults then!

Bout time someone told you some home truths too ! but hey! guess what! you aint worth it either!
Now go and slag us all of on facebook like you normally do!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Smoking is a habit,at least for me it was.I was never "addicted".I thought I was until the day I found myself with 2 cigs lit at the same time.One was still in the ashtray the other I had just lit.I decided that day 2 years & 2 months ago to stop,and I did .No f****** about just stopped.Do I feel healthier ,no.Do I feel better off ,yes.I dont "stink" of stale smoke,the house doesnt reek,and my cat doesnt have to breathe in second hand smoke.I went from 20 + a day to zero a day and I am glad I did it .


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## adam87 (Nov 16, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Im giving up cigs now.. :lol:


lol it's true, the packet warns that smoking causes impotence, I think my sex drive was so high to begin with that smoking just keep me in check, think it's still a bit high smoking though..

TMI?


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Dave Allen (the comedian) smoked 50+ a day and gave up. He said he was sick of paying people to kill him lol. I also remember him saying "yes, I like a drink. But I don't p*ss on you afterwards, do I?" LOL


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Hope this stays on topic now. I'm a smoker will quit again soon I hope. I made it to 4 years before. The price of smokes here is stupid too over 10.00 Cdn dollars. But my friends who don't smoke have other bad habits that I don't have...Jill


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

canuckjill said:


> Hope this stays on topic now. I'm a smoker will quit again soon I hope. I made it to 4 years before. The price of smokes here is stupid too over 10.00 Cdn dollars. But my friends who don't smoke have other bad habits that I don't have...Jill


I think thats what a lot of people conveniently forget.....lots of other addictions affect those around us just as much as smoking - drinking being the main one that springs to my mind -but people dont seem to have a problem with that if it hasnt affected them directly.......hypocrites if you ask me - all the smokers I know and most people I know are smokers do so with the utmost respect and if Im at a bus stop where someone is smoking I simply move out the way its no biggie in the grand scheme of things tbo! - I also find that smokers who have given up are the worst for beating on those that still do ....again hypocrites ......as long as no one smokes in front of the kids then im fine with people smoking - its their money and their health - you dont see smokers after a pack of 20 going home and beating the wife in front of the kids do ya! - I think its time people looked at the bigger picture - there are many vices out there and we ALL have one or more - I try not to judge anyone on that.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

I think everyone on this thread would feel a lot calmer if they just went outside and had a quick ciggie.

Just saying.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> I think thats what a lot of people conveniently forget.....lots of other addictions affect those around us just as much as smoking - drinking being the main one that springs to my mind -but people dont seem to have a problem with that if it hasnt affected them directly.......hypocrites if you ask me - all the smokers I know and most people I know are smokers do so with the utmost respect and if Im at a bus stop where someone is smoking I simply move out the way its no biggie in the grand scheme of things tbo! - I also find that smokers who have given up are the worst for beating on those that still do ....again hypocrites ......as long as no one smokes in front of the kids then im fine with people smoking - its their money and their health - you dont see smokers after a pack of 20 going home and beating the wife in front of the kids do ya! - I think its time people looked at the bigger picture - there are many vices out there and we ALL have one or more - I try not to judge anyone on that.


Thats it isnt it Suzy, people really do seem to conveniently forget that WE ALL have things that we SHOULDNT do or are harmful to us, but love to start getting personal with people just because they have an opinion.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I think its interesting how a lot of the little disagreements on here are between smokers/ex smokers and not so much non smokers at all.

No one should be dishing out insults or generalising a crazy amount I've seen a few times on here non smokers being told we do this or that or have addictions too. FFS we're all people and we're all entitled to the same rights in life whether we choose to smoke/pay lots of tax that way or don't smoke and pay tax in other ways (fuel etc).


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

As I don't smoke I wish the taxes on tobacco were raised and those on alcohol lowered

This bottle of Port I have just opened is gorgeous


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

just a point worth mentioning

if it gets to a point where everyone stops smoking the country's in trouble,the government makes billions every year from tobacco taxes,billions more than the NHS see,the same goes for drinking.....if everyone gave up these 2 things alone VAT and income tax would have to increase to make the government work...the same goes for driving,we pay road tax for the upkeep of the roads yet they're in a terrible state


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## adam87 (Nov 16, 2010)

kirksandallchins said:


> As I don't smoke I wish the taxes on tobacco were raised and those on alcohol lowered
> 
> This bottle of Port I have just opened is gorgeous


Refer back to my previous post about alcohol being much worse :tongue_smilie:


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

skyblue said:


> just a point worth mentioning
> 
> if it gets to a point where everyone stops smoking the country's in trouble,the government makes billions every year from tobacco taxes,billions more than the NHS see,the same goes for drinking.....if everyone gave up these 2 things alone VAT and income tax would have to increase to make the government work...the same goes for driving,*we pay road tax for the upkeep of the roads yet they're in a terrible state*




The road tax is nothing to do with the upkeep of the roads, it may have been at one time but it's not now.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

kirksandallchins said:


> As I don't smoke I wish the taxes on tobacco were raised and those on alcohol lowered
> 
> This bottle of Port I have just opened is gorgeous


You obviouly missed my thread yesterday

http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/155508-budget-cost-alcohol-so-how-much.html


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *You see,you are only thinking of yourself.Do you think smokers like having to stand out in all weathers just to have a smoke? Yeah we would love a decent evening out to enjoy it how we please,but the do gooders have put a stop to that.
> Typical of what this country has become,dictators.*


Then leave your ciggies at home 

Best thing ever done banning smoking in pubs, great being able to go out without having to come home with your hair and clothes stinking of someone elses **** :tongue_smilie:


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

luvmydogs said:


> Dave Allen (the comedian) smoked 50+ a day and gave up. He said he was sick of paying people to kill him lol. I also remember him saying "yes, I like a drink. But I don't p*ss on you afterwards, do I?" LOL


That is brilliant, would rep you buy have already done so and it won't alllow me to again


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I think thats what a lot of people conveniently forget.....lots of other addictions affect those around us just as much as smoking - drinking being the main one that springs to my mind -but people dont seem to have a problem with that if it hasnt affected them directly.......hypocrites if you ask me - all the smokers I know and most people I know are smokers do so with the utmost respect and if Im at a bus stop where someone is smoking I simply move out the way its no biggie in the grand scheme of things tbo! - I also find that smokers who have given up are the worst for beating on those that still do ....again hypocrites ......as long as no one smokes in front of the kids then im fine with people smoking - its their money and their health - *you dont see smokers after a pack of 20 going home and beating the wife in front of the kids do ya! *- I think its time people looked at the bigger picture - there are many vices out there and we ALL have one or more - I try not to judge anyone on that.


Sorry, but I'm not sure what that bit is supposed to prove, whether someone subjects their partner to domestic violence has nothing to do with how much they may or may not smoke.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I still occasionally smoke, but am not addicted, my preference is for cigars in any case. But if I do smoke, it's only at home, in the garden where I don't affect anyone else. I can't see the correlation between other 'habits' and smoking, yes, sometimes there is an impact, such as people addicted to drugs that also commit crimes to fund their habit, but they're not forcing you to partake in taking drugs, it's an entirely different issue.

If someone didn't like coffee, and I forced them to drink a coffee, then they would be understandably annoyed. If smokers can afford the tax hikes and want to smoke, then I think it's only fair to do so where it won't affect other people, and even in outdoor spaces they have to consider there will be people who don't want a whiff of smoke near them. Even as a smoker I don't like cigarette smoke, and hate it when people just light up in front of me as I'm walking along.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Sorry, but I'm not sure what that bit is supposed to prove, whether someone subjects their partner to domestic violence has nothing to do with how much they may or may not smoke.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> If someone didn't like coffee, and I forced them to drink a coffee, then they would be understandably annoyed. .


Heck! I must be a cruel one! I forced mine to eat brussels spouts


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> Then leave your ciggies at home
> 
> Best thing ever done banning smoking in pubs, great being able to go out without having to come home with your hair and clothes stinking of someone elses **** :tongue_smilie:


The atmosphere in many pubs is smoke free...trouble is they're customer free too with around twenty five a week closing down.Last year thirty a week.That's about 200 people a week extra on the dole.Not counting those in the pub supplies industries.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Heck! I must be a cruel one! I forced mine to eat brussels spouts


I LOVE brussels sprouts, but I'm not sure about spouts 



poohdog said:


> The atmosphere in many pubs is smoke free...trouble is they're customer free too with around twenty five a week closing down.Last year thirty a week.That's about 200 people a week extra on the dole.Not counting those in the pub supplies industries.


I'm not sure that can all be put down to the smoking ban, although I'm sure it is partly to do with it. I would support the idea of smoking rooms in pubs, that are entirely separate, but many pubs don't have the facility to do this without the smoke escaping and getting in to other areas, and I don't agree with the staff being subjected to passive smoking either, bar areas would have to be entirely smoke free.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

poohdog said:


> The atmosphere in many pubs is smoke free...trouble is they're customer free too with around twenty five a week closing down.Last year thirty a week.That's about 200 people a week extra on the dole.Not counting those in the pub supplies industries.


Shops are closing all over the place too, that's life at the moment unfortunately ...

While I feel for anyone losing their job because some smokers would perhaps rather sit at home and smoke than go out, I am more concerned for my own health to be perfectly honest 

Anyway, with the price hike many simply may be unable to do do both anyway :001_unsure:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Sorry, but I'm not sure what that bit is supposed to prove, whether someone subjects their partner to domestic violence has nothing to do with how much they may or may not smoke.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


exactly! I was trying to say that although yes smoking does have lots of affects so do other addictions which some people seem to forget about - I was using the "abuse" to show that drink has a lot of dangers too ! some life threatening. Some people just come down harder on smokers.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> exactly! I was trying to say that although yes smoking does have lots of affects so do other addictions which some people seem to forget about - I was using the "abuse" to show that drink has a lot of dangers too ! some life threatening. Some people just come down harder on smokers.


Now I'm even more confused, drink and abuse doesn't necessarily have to be connected either, although it sometimes is, and perhaps they also smoke.

Domestic violence and abuse isn't necessarily connected, my husband was abusive to me for over a year, he didn't smoke, and although he drank it wasn't related, it was because of his personality, nothing to do with anything he imbibed.

I think you're confusing addiction to a substance to behavioural issuesor personality disorders, which may or may not have any direct links to what a person takes.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Aurelia said:


> What the hell?  but ... :lol:
> 
> How have I no manners? Why bring weight into it? .. as for the rest ... :lol:
> 
> ...


I stopped for just over 18 months and then started again, stupid, but in all that time i found it sooo hared the nicotine was out of my ststem so didnt have the cravings, so why did i start again, maybe because i ejoy smoking it not all about the adiction i dont think.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Then leave your ciggies at home
> 
> Best thing ever done banning smoking in pubs, great being able to go out without having to come home with your hair and clothes stinking of someone elses **** :tongue_smilie:


It is the best thing they could have done in terms of people having to inhale 2nd hand smoke then we got people moaning they had lost their jobs and businesses, Cant win.
I do find it hard to sympathise with non smokers anymore because in the majority od people they dont have to be where people are smoking anymore, but still they have a problem with anyone that smokes.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> It is the best thing they could have done in terms of people having to inhale 2nd hand smoke then we got people moaning they had lost their jobs and businesses, Cant win.


Exactly. I'm sure something like 25-30 shops close every single week as well and you can't blame the *** ban on that really. People have less money to spend when we are in this type of economic downturn, I for one don't go out to a pub for a meal or drink all that much and everyone in my family goes out less now than they did before, most of them don't smoke anyway...But that decrease of customers due to a lack of spending money is not due to the *** ban at all, its us being tight wads and trying to scrimp and save 

ETA: Places like Waterstones and HMV have announced they are shutting loads of shops too. More an economic downturn problem than that of the *** ban to me


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Exactly. I'm sure something like 25-30 shops close every single week as well and you can't blame the *** ban on that really. People have less money to spend when we are in this type of economic downturn, I for one don't go out to a pub for a meal or drink all that much and everyone in my family goes out less now than they did before, most of them don't smoke anyway...But that decrease of customers due to a lack of spending money is not due to the *** ban at all, its us being tight wads and trying to scrimp and save
> 
> ETA: Places like Waterstones and HMV have announced they are shutting loads of shops too. More an economic downturn problem than that of the *** ban to me


Ime not blaming the smoking ban on shops closing, but it is a fact that the smoking ban had a huge effect on the pubs. Ime in no way trying to defend myself as a smoker, i dont need to because my smoking effects no one else but myself, ive sort of switched off to all the negativity and people trying to tell me what i should do and what i shouldnt do (i dont mean on here) apparently i shouldnt be smoking, i shouldnt be driving my 4x4 and certainly shouldnt be driving to work thats less than a mile away from my home, but i dont see reduced tax if i leave it at home every day, so i will continue to smoke for as long as i want to because it effects no one else and i pay for them and the tax they pull from every one i smoke and i will still drive my 4x4 to work everyday because i pay road tax like everyone else and i put in the fuel.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> I stopped for just over 18 months and then started again, stupid, but in all that time i found it sooo hared the nicotine was out of my ststem so didnt have the cravings, so why did i start again, maybe because i ejoy smoking it not all about the adiction i dont think.


That just what I used to say to myself!
I know what I'll do today! I'll burn a tenner! problem is reckon I've done it for nigh on forty year! I added up on day - two houses a bungalow and a top of the range merc I've set light to!

Seriouly! if you can afford it and if aint being inflicted on no one else then that up to the individual! I know every budget that came along since adam wa a lad the results have been the same! and there is no good moaning about it! if you can afford it you pay it! BUT even the thickest of people must know now why they have stopped smoking in public places! 

It weren't the money that stopped me! TBH when I started smoking I always kidded myelf and tried to kid everyone else too that I could stop when I WANTED! but truth of the matter was! I couldn't,  when I turned forty I had a couple of feeble attempted quits - followed by maybe a dozen more! I aint quit the weed now - just the tar that goes with it! and to be honest! I was getting seriously concerned about my health! and went last week for a lung function test (think thats what they call it) to see if there has been any damage done whilst I was a smoker!

lol
DT


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> That just what I used to say to myself!
> I know what I'll do today! I'll burn a tenner! problem is reckon I've done it for nigh on forty year! I added up on day - two houses a bungalow and a top of the range merc I've set light to!
> 
> Seriouly! if you can afford it and if aint being inflicted on no one else then that up to the individual! I know every budget that came along since adam wa a lad the results have been the same! and there is no good moaning about it! if you can afford it you pay it! BUT even the thickest of people must know now why they have stopped smoking in public places!
> ...


Yes its health reasons for me thats why ime finding the c-cig really good, i do still have the regular cigarette but no where near as much. I just cant see why people moan so much they no longer have to be near smokers.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

When they stopped smoking in bars and Pubs here it took about 3 years for them that survived to get back to normal business. Several also supply a wind break with heaters for the winter for smokers to go outside for a quick one, when its 40 below believe me it is a quick one...lol


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

I'm just gonna say this-

my dad used to smoke 20 a day, and he never EVER smelled of cigs. He was surrounded by people that smoked, went to the pub (when people smoked indoors) 3-4 nights a week and NEVER smelled of smoke.

No idea how- but not all smokers stink.

It kind of annoys me that the government has done all the public smoking banning and all the negative advertising, but won't actually BAN cigarettes. Because they'd lose too much money. Simple as. Same as alcohol. 

I am however, sort of glad they banned it in pubs purely because I worked in a pub when the ban came in and it was quite nice not smelling of smoke. 
But seriously, if someone is smoking next to you- move the hell away. Don't be a preachy a*seh*le about it. Everyone can think of others- it's everyones right to smoke, it's everyones right to not have to put up with the smoke.

If smokers gave a thought to non-smokers "do you mind if I smoke?"
And non-smokers gave a thought to smokers "i'll just move this 5 feet to my left, don't worry" there wouldn't be a problem.

Back to the cost topic, the government have gotta make money somewhere. And this is the easiest way, less people smoke than don't smoke, so if they put the tax on smoking there are less people to whinge, it looks like they're trying to encourage non-smoking. They wouldn't dare put that kind of hike on alcohol- country would go bloody nuts.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> I'm just gonna say this-
> 
> my dad used to smoke 20 a day, and he never EVER smelled of cigs. He was surrounded by people that smoked, went to the pub (when people smoked indoors) 3-4 nights a week and NEVER smelled of smoke.
> 
> ...


Whilst parts of your post are a nice thought, not everyone can move five feet to the left or right. If you are walking down a pavement, and someone ahead of you lights up, you have no choice, except from crossing the road to walk in a smoke free zone, of course, someone else on the other side could choose to light up as well.

It's everone's right to smoke, but it's not everyone's right to enforce smoking on others, and that's where the issue lies.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Whilst parts of your post are a nice thought, not everyone can move five feet to the left or right. If you are walking down a pavement, and someone ahead of you lights up, you have no choice, except from crossing the road to walk in a smoke free zone, of course, someone else on the other side could choose to light up as well.
> 
> It's everone's right to smoke, but it's not everyone's right to enforce smoking on others, and that's where the issue lies.


The problem is it gets a bit silly then though doesnt it, the pollution that we inhale outside from cars, buses etc is a lot more than someone cigarette smoke that is going to walk past you.

And somehow i dont think they can ban cars etc can they??

Passive smoking in pubs etc yes i agree with the ban but not outside that is stupid.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

KathrynH said:


> The problem is it gets a bit silly then though doesnt it, the pollution that we inhale outside from cars, buses etc is a lot more than someone cigarette smoke that is going to walk past you.
> 
> And somehow i dont think they can ban cars etc can they??
> 
> Passive smoking in pubs etc yes i agree with the ban but not outside that is stupid.


Yes but we all need to travel to get to work, we don't all need to smoke. Smoking is a lifestyle choice, not a necessity.


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> It is the best thing they could have done in terms of people having to inhale 2nd hand smoke then we got people moaning they had lost their jobs and businesses, Cant win.
> I do find it hard to sympathise with non smokers anymore because in the majority od people they dont have to be where people are smoking anymore, but still they have a problem with anyone that smokes.


I personally think that they could win!

Have pubs that cater for non smokers and smokers. If you choose to work in a smoking pub then you have to deal with the 2nd hand smoke issue, if that bothers you go work in another pub. Why are smokers the ones that are slagged off, I mean we are banned from pubs, so we go outside and people still whinge. If people don't like it then don't come near us.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Yes but we all need to travel to get to work, we don't all need to smoke. Smoking is a lifestyle choice, not a necessity.


Yes totally agree with you on that, my statement is just saying that people that make a massive deal on passive smoking outside are totally exaggerating it.


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## genna ann (Dec 8, 2008)

I smoke, i'm bad, get over it.

Poohdog thats one seriously gorgeous collie you have there!

xxxxx


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

KathrynH said:


> Yes totally agree with you on that, my statement is just saying that people that make a massive deal on passive smoking outside are totally exaggerating it.


I agree in some circumstances, but not in others, going back to my example, if you are on a four foot wide pavement as a non-smoker, if someone in front of you lights up, what do you do? If their smoke drifts back to you you have one of two choices, you are either a passive smoker, or you cross the road, and there you may well face the same choice again.

The problem with smoking is, as I've said a couple of times, this is not a vice you can choose to share, you basically share it with those around you, whethere they want it or not. And that is where the main issue lies.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Now I'm even more confused, drink and abuse doesn't necessarily have to be connected either, although it sometimes is, and perhaps they also smoke.
> 
> Domestic violence and abuse isn't necessarily connected, my husband was abusive to me for over a year, he didn't smoke, and although he drank it wasn't related, it was because of his personality, nothing to do with anything he imbibed.
> 
> I think you're confusing addiction to a substance to behavioural issuesor personality disorders, which may or may not have any direct links to what a person takes.


No it is not necessarily connected but a lot of the time it is! many many men do become abusive when drunk .....and look at it out on a saturday night!! how many young adults get absolutely obliterated on drink so much so that they are sick in the roads lying there unconcious or getting nasty with others and stabbing people or getting into fights.....look at how many ambulances are called to deal with this sort of thing and the police its a knock on effect! and that is the point im trying to make! IMO im more likely to be affected by these sorts of things ie getting into a relationship with someone who knocks me about or having some drunk random girl try and punch me in the face than I am of dying of 2hand smoke inhaled at the bus stop......


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

What a bunch of moaners....'Oooh! someone has lit a *** up in the same town as me'...get a life... and think yourself lucky you haven't got an earthquake or tsunami to worry about instead of somebody setting fire to a few rolled up leaves.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I agree in some circumstances, but not in others, going back to my example, if you are on a four foot wide pavement as a non-smoker, if someone in front of you lights up, what do you do? If their smoke drifts back to you you have one of two choices, you are either a passive smoker, or you cross the road, and there you may well face the same choice again.
> 
> The problem with smoking is, as I've said a couple of times, this is not a vice you can choose to share, you basically share it with those around you, whethere they want it or not. And that is where the main issue lies.




I think if you have ANY vice you share it in some way because any vice can become an addiction and any addiction can cause problems for you and those around you.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I agree in some circumstances, but not in others, going back to my example, if you are on a four foot wide pavement as a non-smoker, if someone in front of you lights up, what do you do? If their smoke drifts back to you you have one of two choices, you are either a passive smoker, or you cross the road, and there you may well face the same choice again.
> 
> The problem with smoking is, as I've said a couple of times, this is not a vice you can choose to share, you basically share it with those around you, whethere they want it or not. And that is where the main issue lies.


But it is not going to do you any more harm than walking down the road and all those cars, lorries, buses driving past you and you inhaling there fumes, unless you literally stand on people shoulders when your out in the street. 

Of course in pubs and clubs etc yes i understand what you are saying and the ban is a good thing but not out in the open air.


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Whilst parts of your post are a nice thought, not everyone can move five feet to the left or right. If you are walking down a pavement, and someone ahead of you lights up, you have no choice, except from crossing the road to walk in a smoke free zone, of course, someone else on the other side could choose to light up as well.
> 
> It's everone's right to smoke, but it's not everyone's right to enforce smoking on others, and that's where the issue lies.


Actually pavements are pretty wide you don't have to walk directly behind the person. And it's the outside :blink:

If you have to stand next to the back end of a bus you'll inhale more crap. And they're not ENFORCING it on you. They -happen- to be smoking near you. And you -happen- to be near some smoke. ENFORCING it on you, would be blowing it on your face, pining you down and making you smoke. Or doing it in a confined space with no ventilation.
Sorry that's just a gripe of mine. 
Someone smoking OUTSIDE is not enforcing anything on you. You just happen to be there.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

KathrynH said:


> Yes totally agree with you on that, my statement is just saying that people that make a massive deal on passive smoking outside are totally exaggerating it.


Ye i have to agree with you there its a bit silly, if it bothered me i would just walk passed so i was ahead, cant see a problem with passive smoking any more.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

poohdog said:


> What a bunch of moaners....'Oooh! someone has lit a *** up in the same town as me'...get a life... and think yourself lucky you haven't got an earthquake or tsunami to worry about instead of somebody setting fire to a few rolled up leaves.


Wow, what a lovely attitude, I'd like to share my disease with you so get a life!



suzy93074 said:


> No it is not necessarily connected but a lot of the time it is! many many men do become abusive when drunk .....and look at it out on a saturday night!! how many young adults get absolutely obliterated on drink so much so that they are sick in the roads lying there unconcious or getting nasty with others and stabbing people or getting into fights.....look at how many ambulances are called to deal with this sort of thing and the police its a knock on effect! and that is the point im trying to make! IMO im more likely to be affected by these sorts of things ie getting into a relationship with someone who knocks me about or having some drunk random girl try and punch me in the face than I am of dying of 2hand smoke inhaled at the bus stop......


No, I'm sorry, but drink is not at the root of domestic violence. It causes many problems, but domestic violence is not caused by alcohol, and I think to try and post that as the cause is diversionary and inaccurate. Having been at the front of domestic violence and abuse, I can quite equitably say, it wasn't caused in the instance I suffed by either alcohol or any other substance, so I find your questionable link quite offensive. My husband abused me because he was suffering from depression, and chose to, he didn't smoke or drink himself into a state to do so, and for anyone to try and infer that is quite frankly futile.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Stephny691 said:


> Actually pavements are pretty wide you don't have to walk directly behind the person. And it's the outside :blink:
> 
> If you have to stand next to the back end of a bus you'll inhale more crap. And they're not ENFORCING it on you. They -happen- to be smoking near you. And you -happen- to be near some smoke. ENFORCING it on you, would be blowing it on your face, pining you down and making you smoke. Or doing it in a confined space with no ventilation.
> Sorry that's just a gripe of mine.
> Someone smoking OUTSIDE is not enforcing anything on you. You just happen to be there.


No, I don't have to walk directly behind the person, but if I'm walking along doing my shopping, why should I change my route because some one chooses to smoke? Someone who chooses to light up in public chooses to make other people inhale their smoke, DEPENDING on where they are. As a smoker, I understand this, and don't enforce my habit on anyone else.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

poohdog said:


> What a bunch of moaners....'Oooh! someone has lit a *** up in the same town as me'...get a life... and think yourself lucky you haven't got an earthquake or tsunami to worry about instead of somebody setting fire to a few rolled up leaves.


Remind me to fart next time I am in the East Midlands!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Wow, what a lovely attitude, I'd like to share my disease with you so get a life!
> 
> No, I'm sorry, but drink is not at the root of domestic violence. It causes many problems, but domestic violence is not caused by alcohol, and I think to try and post that as the cause is diversionary and inaccurate. Having been at the front of domestic violence and abuse, I can quite equitably say, it wasn't caused in the instance I suffed by either alcohol or any other substance, so I find your questionable link quite offensive. My husband abused me because he was suffering from depression, and chose to, he didn't smoke or drink himself into a state to do so, and for anyone to try and infer that is quite frankly futile.


I too have been a victim of domestic violence for a number of years and yes alchohol did play a part as it has for many others I know who have suffered it - I have even been to some of the anger managment which my OH had to do and we were told by the helpers there that Alcohol and abuse are very often linked! not always but often - it is not the root cause but does perpetuate it! the point im trying to make is that as with SMOKING there are indirect consequences some of which can be life threatening to others !

To say you find my post offensive is quite baffling to me!! just because your abuse was not alcohol related does not mean others have not suffered it - I find your post quite offensive actually because you are trying to tell me that im wrong when actually neither of us are we just have both had different reasons for abuse . shame you could not see that.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

The total cost to the UK economy of alcohol-related death, illness, crime and other adverse impacts has been estimated at up to £25.1 billion a year.

The total cost of smoking to the UK economy is £14 billion a year


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I too have been a victim of domestic violence for a number of years and yes alchohol did play a part as it has for many others I know who have suffered it - I have even been to some of the anger managment which my OH had to do and we were told by the helpers there that Alcohol and abuse are very often linked! not always but often - it is not the root cause but does perpetuate it! the point im trying to make is that as with SMOKING there are indirect consequences some of which can be life threatening to others !


Ok, I really feel for you, as someone who suffered domestic violence and abuse, it's horrific. But alcohol is not the sole cause, it can be a contributary factory, but is not a cause, that is down to the individuals concerned.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> The total cost to the UK economy of alcohol-related death, illness, crime and other adverse impacts has been estimated at up to £25.1 billion a year.
> 
> The total cost of smoking to the UK economy is £14 billion a year


And thats it in a nutshell!


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## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *God this is taking the p*ss. All this will do is encourage people to pop over to France or Belgium to get their **** and tobacco.And if we smokers start doing that how much would this goverment loose out on?*


Why not just give up smoking. I did and I've never had so much money.

What the Govt. lose in taxes they'll save on thee NHS treating smoking related illness


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Ok, I really feel for you, as someone who suffered domestic violence and abuse, it's horrific. But alcohol is not the sole cause, it can be a contributary factory, but is not a cause, that is down to the individuals concerned.


I know that I was merely using this as an example that Alchohol is just if not more devastating than passive smoking.


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## Stephny691 (Nov 13, 2007)

But then- why shouldn't they light up when they are outside? That's as open and ventilated as they can get? Where is it ok for them to smoke? Only in their own house? What about garden? Is it not allowed if their neighbours can smell the smoke? 

I can completely see your point and understand it. But I do like to play devil's advocate at times.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

Right wing politics has caused more deaths than smoking... they should ban that!

I could do a list of many things to ban far worse than ****.










I'm a non-smoker BTW.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I know that I was merely using this as an example that Alchohol is just if not more devastating than passive smoking.


Wow, I'm really surprised by your interpretation of domestic abuse and violcence. My ex abused me for well over a year, mentally, verbally and physically, didn't really involve alcohol. My next partner pinned me down by my neck and raped me, didn't have anything to do with alcohol, he did however smoke.

I find your generalisms about peoples' personal habits and abusive relationships really quite offensive.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

Elmo the Bear said:


> The total cost to the UK economy of alcohol-related death, illness, crime and other adverse impacts has been estimated at up to £25.1 billion a year.
> 
> The total cost of smoking to the UK economy is £14 billion a year


Dont forget the £5 billion pa that smokers cost employers


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

And also add another 2 billion to the bill for helping smokers to quit!


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And also add another 2 billion to the bill for helping smokers to quit!


Nope... that's included in the figures.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Dont forget the £5 billion pa that smokers cost employers


Nope... that's included too. as in "total cost"


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Wow, I'm really surprised by your interpretation of domestic abuse and violcence. My ex abused me for well over a year, mentally, verbally and physically, didn't really involve alcohol. My next partner pinned me down by my neck and raped me, didn't have anything to do with alcohol, he did however smoke.
> 
> I find your generalisms about peoples' personal habits and abusive relationships really quite offensive.


Its not interpreation its fact! - from my own experiences and from listening to those who deal with abuse as a job and to others who have gone through it too - I have never generalised and said all .....I would not be presumptious to do so! I suffered for over 5 years and everyday is still a struggle for me.....Im merely trying to point out that any vice or addiction can cause problems for those around that person! if you cannot see that then there is no point replying to anymore of my posts - if you knew me as a person you would no I would never generalise and pool one set of people together.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

would be a nice gesture if everyone on PF packed up smoking and donated what they saved to animal rescue me thinks!


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Nope... that's included in the figures.


Opps!  from what year are the figures you quote taken?
All info i could find was from 2009


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> And also add another 2 billion to the bill for helping smokers to quit!


Ahhh but how much is made from people buying the aids with which to stop???


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

I think we should get a smokers PF bus and all go on a day trip to France :lol::lol:


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> Ahhh but how much is made from people buying the aids with which to stop???


Too much no doubt! again we have our government to blame for that!
But looking from another angle how much is pilfered from the NHS by so call quiters getting free prescriptions for stop smoking aids that they are selling via ebay and through other channels?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Its not interpreation its fact! - from my own experiences and from listening to those who deal with abuse as a job and to others who have gone through it too - I have never generalised and said all .....I would not be presumptious to do so! I suffered for over 5 years and everyday is still a struggle for me.....Im merely trying to point out that any vice or addiction can cause problems for those around that person! if you cannot see that then there is no point replying to anymore of my posts - if you knew me as a person you would no I would never generalise and pool one set of people together.


Vice or addiction does not necessarily mean you abuse people. You do seem to be generalising people who don't like to smell smoke from smokers as one set of people who are whingers or those who can't be bothered to get out of the way of smokers, and why should we? As a smoker, I can see how offensive it would be if I lit up a cigar and smoked in an enclosed space, so why can't cigarette smokers see this.

I am an avid collector of children's illustrated stories, because of my work, and one book I have, from the 50's, has a fabulous line, that goes along the lines of 'Aunt Jackie lit up a cigarette to keep the flies away', the stor is about a young lad on a picnic with his aunt, learning about the countryside. Unfortunately, that idyllic smoking scene is incredibly rare, I don't want to share someone else's smoke, and I don't want to inflict my smoke on anyone else.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Opps!  from what year are the figures you quote taken?
> All info i could find was from 2009


Feb 2010 HPA


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Vice or addiction does not necessarily mean you abuse people. You do seem to be generalising people who don't like to smell smoke from smokers as one set of people who are whingers or those who can't be bothered to get out of the way of smokers, and why should we? As a smoker, I can see how offensive it would be if I lit up a cigar and smoked in an enclosed space, so why can't cigarette smokers see this.
> 
> I am an avid collector of children's illustrated stories, because of my work, and one book I have, from the 50's, has a fabulous line, that goes along the lines of 'Aunt Jackie lit up a cigarette to keep the flies away', the stor is about a young lad on a picnic with his aunt, learning about the countryside. Unfortunately, that idyllic smoking scene is incredibly rare, I don't want to share someone else's smoke, and I don't want to inflict my smoke on anyone else.


Again I have not said it does!! but then neither does walking past someone smoking mean you are going to get cancer!! im saying that with many addictions and that includes smoking there is risk to others! when I smoke which as I have mentioned its very rarely I do so with respect for those that dont - my parents have never smoked and I wouldnt dream of lighting up in their home! my OH smokes and he goes outside for a *** at my mums no questions asked! but if we are all outside then he has as much right to smoke imo and I have the choice to move out the way it works both ways!


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

smoking...does not bother me..i am a non-smoker..but, one thing that really p****d me off before the ban was when i was sitting there in a pub/eating house and some smokers..not all.. will sit with the *** held up in the air away from them...pointing it towards me...proper peed me off that did


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Too much no doubt! again we have our government to blame for that!
> But looking from another angle how much is pilfered from the NHS by so call quiters getting free prescriptions for stop smoking aids that they are selling via ebay and through other channels?


But can you really use that argument? look how many things people sell on Ebay nowadays! tons of stuff some people have their own businesses purely by buying goods in bulk and selling on ebaby in this day and age of online retail its inevitable that people will take advantage to make a quick buck.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> my OH smokes and he goes outside for a *** at my mums no questions asked! but if we are all outside then he has as much right to smoke imo and I have the choice to move out the way it works both ways!


That may work at your mums - but whatabout outside elsewhere! what if there are a little children babies in prams? do they move away do they know to walk away?


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

The total includes 

£2.7billion of NHS care
£342million for cleaning up
£507million putting out fires
Lost productivity - due to the deaths of smokers and passive smokers £4.8billion and £2.9billion is lost to absenteeism


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> That may work at your mums - but whatabout outside elsewhere! what if there are a little children babies in prams? do they move away do they know to walk away?


Children in churches and faith schools are not free to leave when they want to and religion has certainly killed more people than smoking.


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Lets face it, ciggies are the easy option for the government to raise much needed funds. Just like alcohol its an easy hit. So I get double whammied.  Contrary to popular opinion, smokers are not the spawn of the devil, we're addicts, that are legally allowed to buy our drug of choice. 
In the main smokers have bent over backwards to accomodate non smokers, although I have to say that ex-smokers are by far the biggest noise about smoking (hubs was a pain whilst/after he gave up, smoking again now, so all is silent) 

QUOTE=poohdog;2324446]The atmosphere in many pubs is smoke free...trouble is they're customer free too with around twenty five a week closing down.Last year thirty a week.That's about 200 people a week extra on the dole.Not counting those in the pub supplies industries.[/QUOTE]

Erm, sorry but the fact that pubs are closing down at a vast rate has very little to do with no longer being able to smoke in pubs, that is more likely down to cheaper booze in supermarkets, country pubs are out of the way and there for people are unwilling to drink and drive, and also down to the fact that keeping a decent pub/pint is damned hard work, that a lot of the younger people think is just not worth the effort. So as the older landlords choose to retire there is not many younger ones willing to take their places. 



Sleeping_Lion said:


> Yes but we all need to travel to get to work, we don't all need to smoke. Smoking is a lifestyle choice, not a necessity.


And what is wrong with the bicycle, subject to how far away your work is, public transport or the car is not the only option. I used to bike to my work, a round trip was about 7 miles, and very little of it was on the flat.  You just ask metame, madcat, freya or any of the others from this area about biking/walking up hartshill bank, more like heartattack bank. :blink:


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> That may work at your mums - but whatabout outside elsewhere! what if there are a little children babies in prams? do they move away do they know to walk away?


In my view babys in prams/buggy are polluted more by car fumes than someone walking past smoking


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> That may work at your mums - but whatabout outside elsewhere! what if there are a little children babies in prams? do they move away do they know to walk away?


Now that is one area im very strict on! if you had read my previous post you would have known that......my OH is very strict about smoking in front of his kids and NEVER does in cars rooms or anywhere! as for me I would never smoke in front of or near a baby!!! imo this is not the same as an adult who CAN make that choice

What I would also say is that sometimes it comes down to commen sence! if you are outside with someone who smokes and you have a baby in the pram then if the smoker doesnt move IMO I would move!! simple!


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> That may work at your mums - but whatabout outside elsewhere! what if there are a little children babies in prams? do they move away do they know to walk away?


You would like to think that someone wouldn't be stood over a pram and blowing smoke in the baby's face wouldn't you!! 

I cannot keep saying it anymore than i have, pollution is a lot worse than people standing in the fresh air smoking.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

poohdog said:


> What a bunch of moaners....'Oooh! someone has lit a *** up in the same town as me'...get a life... and think yourself lucky you haven't got an earthquake or tsunami to worry about instead of somebody setting fire to a few rolled up leaves.


*Ah you have missed the point,some people can't get through life without moaning.But hypocrites that they are,will say in the next breath that people died for OUR freedom.
They would turn in their bloody graves at thse shallow morons.*


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

bird said:


> Lets face it, ciggies are the easy option for the government to raise much needed funds. Just like alcohol its an easy hit. So I get double whammied.  Contrary to popular opinion, smokers are not the spawn of the devil, we're addicts, that are legally allowed to buy our drug of choice.
> In the main smokers have bent over backwards to accomodate non smokers, although I have to say that ex-smokers are by far the biggest noise about smoking (hubs was a pain whilst/after he gave up, smoking again now, so all is silent)
> 
> QUOTE=poohdog;2324446]The atmosphere in many pubs is smoke free...trouble is they're customer free too with around twenty five a week closing down.Last year thirty a week.That's about 200 people a week extra on the dole.Not counting those in the pub supplies industries.


Erm, sorry but the fact that pubs are closing down at a vast rate has very little to do with no longer being able to smoke in pubs, that is more likely down to cheaper booze in supermarkets, country pubs are out of the way and there for people are unwilling to drink and drive, and also down to the fact that keeping a decent pub/pint is damned hard work, that a lot of the younger people think is just not worth the effort. So as the older landlords choose to retire there is not many younger ones willing to take their places. 

And what is wrong with the bicycle, subject to how far away your work is, public transport or the car is not the only option. I used to bike to my work, a round trip was about 7 miles, and very little of it was on the flat.  You just ask metame, madcat, freya or any of the others from this area about biking/walking up hartshill bank, more like heartattack bank. :blink:[/QUOTE]

**** have always been the easy option for the government! Nuffing will EVER change there!

Smokers DONT bend over backwards! I have been one of them! if I am outdoors and smoking I have as much right as a no smoker and I dont think I was the ONLy one with that opinion!

The pubs! the reason is they are customer free is coz folk just cannot afford to go out and stand a coule of rounds! (four of you four rounds between you are going to cost £50) if you stay at home four of you can have a chinese and a coule of bottles of wine for that!

Re the bicycle! I did that for twenty year! Coz I dont smoke I can afford to put diesel in my tank so I shall! and I shall use it! I aint got the cars sat on the drive to look at!


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

KathrynH said:


> You would like to think that someone wouldn't be stood over a pram and blowing smoke in the baby's face wouldn't you!!
> 
> I cannot keep saying it anymore than i have, pollution is a lot worse than people standing in the fresh air smoking.


Why are you confused? It happens! I have seen it! I have even seen what I assume to be mothers smoking and pushing a pram! my point is that the babies cannot move away!


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Why are you confused? It happens! I have seen it! I have even seen what I assume to be mothers smoking and pushing a pram! my point is that the babies cannot move away!


Well sorry but i have never and would never wish to see someone literally bending down over the pram and blowing smoke in the babies face that is why i am confused.

They are pushing a pram down the road so the pollution from the cars is doing just the same harm to the baby so there in no difference really and you don't see everybody shouting about banning traffic do you?


----------



## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

hazel pritchard said:


> I think we should get a smokers PF bus and all go on a day trip to France :lol::lol:


Thats exactly what I used to say! but then I woke up!
And realized I was only kidding myself!


----------



## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

KathrynH said:


> Well sorry but i have never and would never wish to see someone literally bending down over the pram and blowing smoke in the babies face that is why i am confused.
> 
> They are pushing a pram down the road so the pollution from the cars is doing just the same harm to the baby so there in no difference really and you don't see everybody shouting about banning traffic do you?


That is exactly what I used to say!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Erm, sorry but the fact that pubs are closing down at a vast rate has very little to do with no longer being able to smoke in pubs, that is more likely down to cheaper booze in supermarkets, country pubs are out of the way and there for people are unwilling to drink and drive, and also down to the fact that keeping a decent pub/pint is damned hard work, that a lot of the younger people think is just not worth the effort. So as the older landlords choose to retire there is not many younger ones willing to take their places.
> 
> And what is wrong with the bicycle, subject to how far away your work is, public transport or the car is not the only option. I used to bike to my work, a round trip was about 7 miles, and very little of it was on the flat.  You just ask metame, madcat, freya or any of the others from this area about biking/walking up hartshill bank, more like heartattack bank. :blink:


**** have always been the easy option for the government! Nuffing will EVER change there!

Smokers DONT bend over backwards! I have been one of them! if I am outdoors and smoking I have as much right as a no smoker and I dont think I was the ONLy one with that opinion!

The pubs! the reason is they are customer free is coz folk just cannot afford to go out and stand a coule of rounds! (four of you four rounds between you are going to cost £50) if you stay at home four of you can have a chinese and a coule of bottles of wine for that!

Re the bicycle! I did that for twenty year! Coz I dont smoke I can afford to put diesel in my tank so I shall! and I shall use it! I aint got the cars sat on the drive to look at![/QUOTE]

I think if a smoker is outside then as a non smoker I have the choice to move away! I mean where else are they supposed to go?? its been banned from pubs clubs restaurants and workplaces outside is pretty much all they have left so for a non smoker then to moan if they are in the same place is a bit rich imo! surely there is enough space for everyone outside???


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> **** have always been the easy option for the government! Nuffing will EVER change there!
> 
> Smokers DONT bend over backwards! I have been one of them! if I am outdoors and smoking I have as much right as a no smoker and I dont think I was the ONLy one with that opinion!
> 
> ...


Point 1 - Agreed

Point 2 - I hear what you're saying, and in general smokers are more than respectful of others opinions about their habits, and outdoors is outdoors so if you don't like it move etc. What I meant in my usual cackhanded way, was the vast majority of smokers, when having their hand smacked for their habit, warranted or not, will mostly be mindful of others (unlike druggys/winos)

Point 3 - There are a lot of reasons as to why pubs are closing, price etc, not just related to not being able to smoke and drink, Cripes can't even do that in my house, main rooms non-smoking. 

Point 4 - just stating a fact from another post that fumes from transport are just as unwelcome and motorised vehicles are not the only way to move around. Hey if you can afford a gallon or so, more power to you etc.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ah you have missed the point,some people can't get through life without moaning.But hypocrites that they are,will say in the next breath that people died for OUR freedom.
> They would turn in their bloody graves at thse shallow morons.*


I'll agree with that! folk moaning that is! Some were born moaning! But who and what exactly has this got to do with our freedom??


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> **** have always been the easy option for the government! Nuffing will EVER change there!
> 
> Smokers DONT bend over backwards! I have been one of them! if I am outdoors and smoking I have as much right as a no smoker and I dont think I was the ONLy one with that opinion!
> 
> ...


Check back on the previous post I made re smoking indooors! I did it for long enuff! and dont have an arguement with that!

I think if a smoker is outside then as a non smoker I have the choice to move away! I mean where else are they supposed to go?? its been banned from pubs clubs restaurants and workplaces outside is pretty much all they have left so for a non smoker then to moan if they are in the same place is a bit rich imo! surely there is enough space for everyone outside???[/QUOTE]
Check back on the previous pot I made re smoking indooors! I did it for long enuff! and dont have an arguement with that!


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

Anyway guys!
Going to give you some food for thought now!
A very very wise pet forum member once said to me !
Watch these type of thread!
The are predictable!
Once Dumb gets on here, dumber will be following close behind! then you will find Dumest joining in to! when this happens T'is time to call it a day!
Coz dumb, dumber and dumest have arrived!
So me! I am going to call it a day!
Have fun 
And see ya around!
You know who you are!


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Anyway guys!
> Going to give you some food for thought now!
> A very very wise pet forum member once said to me !
> Watch these type of thread!
> ...


Oooohhhhhh


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Anyway guys!
> Going to give you some food for thought now!
> A very very wise pet forum member once said to me !
> Watch these type of thread!
> ...


Thats a low blow DT and very uncalled for it actually shows u up in a very bad light because the debate was going fine until you made it personal  very sad and very childish


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> Thats a low blow DT and very uncalled for it actually shows u up in a very bad light because the debate was going fine until you made it personal  very sad and very childish


Its ok Suzy she is really talking about her own 3 brain cells in her head!! 

Dumb, Dumb and Dumber!!!!!


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

...somebody pick those up before someone trips over them would you ?


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## SuperSimoholic (Sep 16, 2010)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Children in churches and faith schools are not free to leave when they want to and religion has certainly killed more people than smoking.


Well that's down to the parents, they choose to do that to their children. just like parent's who smoke choose to risk their children's health (I'm sorry if I hurt feeling here but it's true, unless you leave the house to smoke). children don't have the "choice" to leave the house, and smoke fills the whole house! Smoke in the kitchen, and it seeps through the floorboards into your children's bedroom while they sleep... At least that's what happens to me, and I wake up with a mouth tasting like an ashtray - but I am at the age where I can move get my own place. Small children can't.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

bird said:


> Oooohhhhhh


And you think thats ok??


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> Thats a low blow DT and very uncalled for it actually shows u up in a very bad light because the debate was going fine until you made it personal  very sad and very childish


Can someone tell me if I need to be offended?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I'll agree with that! folk moaning that is! Some were born moaning! But who and what exactly has this got to do with our freedom??


*What the hell has half this thread got to do with the priced of ****?Which was the topic, REMEMBER? derrrrrrrrr*


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

The thing about these sorts of threads is that except for the odd few posters, it always has to be an "either/or" situation. What about compromise?

We have been married for 37 years; my husband was a smoker before I met him and is still a smoker. I have never smoked in my life. We are aware of the dangers of passive smoking and he does all he can to ensure that I'm not bothered by his cigarettes - if I'm in he either smokes by an open window or goes outside. I would love it if he stopped smoking, but it is something he enjoys doing and I respect that.

I have struggled with my weight all my married life. My husband would love it if I were thinner, but he knows I like the sweet stuff and he respects that.

Neither of us can have everything our own way, but we have found a compromise that works for us.

Now why can't this be extended into the wider world? Smokers can (and do) respect the rights of non-smokers by going outside, moving to a different area etc when they light up. Non-smokers can (and do) respect that smokers have a right to enjoy their cigarettes.

Compromise. Is that too simple a solution?


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> Can someone tell me if I need to be offended?


I think it was supposed to offend a few of us Elmo


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *What the hell has half this thread got to do with the priced of ****?Which was the topic, REMEMBER? derrrrrrrrr*[/QUOTE
> 
> Well just to bring you back on track Janice, I'm now smoking more roll ups than ready mades, thanks to the progressive increases and the fact that I'm a tight **** and dont like paying the price they're charging. I can now get near enough 100 maybe more roll ups for the price of 40 ready made ciggies.
> 
> Ciggies will always be/and always has been, hit by ANY government as its easy pickings.  and theres not a damn thing you or me or the guy next door/over the road can do about it.


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## Elmo the Bear (Oct 3, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> I think it was supposed to offend a few of us Elmo


I'm too tired for a whole load of Sigourney so I'm off to bed..... someone have a smoke for me (gave up three years now)


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> The thing about these sorts of threads is that except for the odd few posters, it always has to be an "either/or" situation. What about compromise?
> 
> We have been married for 37 years; my husband was a smoker before I met him and is still a smoker. I have never smoked in my life. We are aware of the dangers of passive smoking and he does all he can to ensure that I'm not bothered by his cigarettes - if I'm in he either smokes by an open window or goes outside. I would love it if he stopped smoking, but it is something he enjoys doing and I respect that.
> 
> ...


Agreed, we have friends that have been married for well over 30 years now, he smokes, she doesnt. He smokes outside, occasionaly in the kitchen (window open) she lets him get on with it. Both a great couple and very happy.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Elmo the Bear said:


> I'm too tired for a whole load of Sigourney so I'm off to bed..... someone have a smoke for me (gave up three years now)


lol yep same here - cant be bothered with silly people  nite nite xx


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

The air pollution emitted by cigarettes is 10 times greater than diesel car exhaust, suggests a controlled experiment, reported in Tobacco Control.

Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, which is the most dangerous element of air pollution for health. Levels indoors can far exceed those outdoors, because new engine models and lead free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter emissions from car exhausts, say the authors.

The controlled experiment was carried out in a private garage in a small mountain town in northern Italy. The town enjoys very low levels of particulate matter air pollution

A turbo diesel 2 litre engine was started and left idling for 30 minutes in the garage, with the doors closed, after which the doors were left open for four hours. The car was fuelled with low sulphur fuel.

Three filter cigarettes were then lit up sequentially, and left smouldering for a further 30 minutes. The nicotine and tar content of each cigarette was 1 mg and 11.2 mg, respectively.

A portable analyser took readings every two minutes during the experiments.

Combined particulate levels in the first hour after the engine had been started measured 88 ug/m3. Those recorded in the first hour after the cigarettes had been lit measured 830 ug/m3: 10 times greater.

The diesel engine exhaust doubled the particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak; the environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15 times those measured outdoors.

[Particulate matter from tobacco versus diesel car exhaust: an educational perspective Tobacco Control 2004; 13: 219-21]

*Dr Giovanni Invernizzi, Tobacco Control Unit, National Cancer Institute, 
Milan, Italy
Full paper available @ http://press.psprings.co.uk/tc/september/219_tc5975.pdf*


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2011)

I used to go to the pub regularly for a few colas and packet of bacon fries. Would enjoy a game of Pool and then go home £10 lighter the last time I tried doing that I was over £20 lighter. Pool is now £1-£2 per game, G+T is £4 and a coke id £1.50 per half pint.

I don't go to the pub as I cannot afford it. I've always been one of these people who say "you dont need to get trollied to enjoy a night out" I will often drink a J2O or a coke over any other drink.

For those of you saying pubs are closing due to the ban I think its quite sad that you cannot enjoy a night out without puffing on a *** or downing a shot or two.

On the local ferry smoking is banned, the crossing takes between 5 and 8 minutes yet some cannot wait 5-8 minutes to light up...I mean how can some people be *that* desperate for a ***?

I never took up smoking as this picture broke my heart...










...and it still does 










If people want to kill themselves thats fine but why do these need to prove that its dangerous? personally I think there should be a much higher price for the many innocent animals killed in the name of tobacco research both past (pre 1997 UK) and present (in other parts of the world)!!!

I know someone who is vegetarian, does not wear leather, does not buy products tested on animals and campaigns on animal welfare but smokes 60 a day... we cannot all be perfect but what is a 30p-50p increase when some poor animals went through this so your **** could be as 'safe' as they can be?


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I think it was supposed to offend a few of us Elmo


We're in trouble now, come on DT lets face it this has got out of hand i apologise if ive offended but i do believe the smoking outside is a very pathetic and just the stupidity of expecting noone to smoke in the streets is very unreasonable.

I dont walk down the streets smoking because i dont like to see it but thats just me, i dont inflict my habit on anyone.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> We're in trouble now, come on DT lets face it this has got out of hand i apologise if ive offended but i do believe the smoking outside is a very pathetic and just the stupidity of expecting noone to smoke in the streets is very unreasonable.
> 
> I dont walk down the streets smoking because i dont like to see it but thats just me, i dont inflict my habit on anyone.


You certainly aint insulted no one!
No one has insulted me either and I certainly aint insulted no one! And certainly NOT Elmo (none of my comments have been directed at him)

I think the only person who has been offended on here is Auriela as it happens!!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> You certainly aint insulted no one!
> No one has insulted me either and I certainly aint insulted no one! And certainly NOT Elmo (none of my comments have been directed at him)
> 
> I think the only person who has been offended on here is Auriela as it happens!!


So why did you say what you did last night?? what does it achieve DT? :blink:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Anyway guys!
> Going to give you some food for thought now!
> A very very wise pet forum member once said to me !
> Watch these type of thread!
> ...


----------



## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> I'll tell ya something, your too pig ingnorant to waste my time on.People like you have nothing better to do than try and upset others.You want to ruin the thread? ok you've done it...HAPPY? I'd rather stink of smoke and be myself than lower myself to yours or ya sidekicks level.:ciappa::dita::dita:





suzy93074 said:


> So why did you say what you did last night?? what does it achieve DT? :blink:





suzy93074 said:


> [/COLOR]


whats up?
Did I insult someone with my ickle comment?

I were just predicting what normally happens on these threads as been pointed out so many times in the past! Is there a problem with that!

Now can you tell me exactly where or what I said that was offencive and directly aimed at another member! unlike some!
There must be some poor sensitive souls on here if they were offended! Or did I just hit a raw nerve maybe?

And when I have to expain *why* I say something, on a public forum, to you it will be a cold day in hell!

Now have your last word, because I am putting you on ignore!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> whats up?
> Did I insult someone with my ickle comment?
> 
> I were just predicting what normally happens on these threads as been pointed out so many times in the past! Is there a problem with that!
> ...


Do you know what I really cannot be bothered :tongue_smilie: play your little mind games DT if thats all you have to do to make your life a bit more exciting - and put me on ignore with pleasure I couldnt give a rats ass - YOU become more and more predicatable as time goes on - and tbo this whole thing is getting sooooo old now I thought we had all moved forward but obviously not. ta ta! get pressing that ignore button!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

It would be really Nice here now.. If we could keep on topic.. I know it has gone right off the beaten track!

And Please lets not take it to a personal level.. 

I am a smoker and TBO.. Im paying the price.. 

I would like to give up.. More due to cost.. But Im not ready.. And if you try forcing someone who is not ready.. No matter what Statistics or diseases you come up with it just doesn't do anything but make me spark up again.. Price regardless..


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

I don't mind being 'dumber', but I'd rather be 'dumbest' if that part's still available. I believe there are less lines to learn which means I can take more sly ciggy breaks.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

classixuk said:


> I don't mind being 'dumber', but I'd rather be 'dumbest' if that part's still available. I believe there are less lines to learn which means I can take more sly ciggy breaks.


How come you disappeared for ages? I thought you had gone


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

classixuk said:


> I don't mind being 'dumber', but I'd rather be 'dumbest' if that part's still available. I believe there are less lines to learn which means I can take more sly ciggy breaks.


Hey! hands off! that parts mine! Ive been rehearsing is since I joined pf


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> How come you disappeared for ages? I thought you had gone


Fell asleep early on New Years Eve, woke up at 6AM without any hangover. Nothing on TV or the internet, so I did my annual business accounts.
By the end of the day, I had spotted about 5 different ways I could make more money...so for the last 12 weeks I've been doing a shop refit, staff training, sourcing new products, attending catwalk shows, entering competitions and all that type of thing.

Pleased to say that it's working...I'm earning an extra £3-4K a month. :thumbup1:

It's eaten up all of my time though, and I stayed away from forums so I could focus.

I bet not everyone missed me though LOL.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Hey! hands off! that parts mine! Ive been rehearsing is since I joined pf


OK then. Perhaps you might be more naturally suited to the role?

LMAO!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Fell asleep early on New Years Eve, woke up at 6AM without any hangover. Nothing on TV or the internet, so I did my annual business accounts.
> By the end of the day, I had spotted about 5 different ways I could make more money...so for the last 12 weeks I've been doing a shop refit, staff training, sourcing new products, attending catwalk shows, entering competitions and all that type of thing.
> 
> Pleased to say that it's working...I'm earning an extra £3-4K a month. :thumbup1:
> ...


Nice one sounds good! I searched the forum a few times like come onnnn why's he gone :lol:

Nice to have you back


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> Nice one sounds good! I searched the forum a few times like come onnnn why's he gone :lol:
> 
> Nice to have you back


Ah. Thanks GS xxx

That feels so nice to hear that I think I'll light a ciggy and sit back in satisfaction.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I unsubscribed from this thread a while ago because it was getting repetitive and heated, but I am quite amazed that after one post to remark on cigarettes going up by such a large amount, it has received over 400 replies! Why is everyone so het up about smoking? I would have thought there were more important things to get het up about.

ClassixUK, I missed you too.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I unsubscribed from this thread a while ago because it was getting repetitive and heated, but I am quite amazed that after one post to remark on cigarettes going up by such a large amount, it has received over 400 replies! *Why is everyone so het up about smoking? I would have thought there were more important things to get het up about.*
> 
> ClassixUK, I missed you too.


Perhaps they're jealous because we all look cool, like James Dean, but their Mam and Dad won't let them join us?



Non-Smokers...don't feel bad, tense or stressed...try Nicotine gum! All the benefits...none of the coughing!


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Well ....back on topic away from the drama queens .....my OH is now smoking the bagged tobacco - (roll up ) he normally smokes about 10 a day Richmond Superking @ £2.85 a pack(before price increase) so thats nearly £20 a week - a bag of benson and hedges baccy (large bag) is £6 and lasts him a week or just over so this is the way forward for him plus I prob wont even want a sly *** cos Im not into roll up!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Cough, my **** are going to be £54+  I don't mind rolling **** but can't stand smoking them.*


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Cough, my **** are going to be £54+  I don't mind rolling **** but can't stand smoking them.*


How about sitting or lieing down then? Same problem?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Perhaps they're jealous because we all look cool, like James Dean, but their Mam and Dad won't let them join us?
> 
> 
> 
> Non-Smokers...don't feel bad, tense or stressed...try Nicotine gum! All the benefits...none of the coughing!


I'm not allowed gum, it might get stuck in my braces :cryin:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Well ....back on topic away from the drama queens .....my OH is now smoking the bagged tobacco - (roll up ) he normally smokes about 10 a day Richmond Superking @ £2.85 a pack(before price increase) so thats nearly £20 a week - a bag of benson and hedges baccy (large bag) is £6 and lasts him a week or just over so this is the way forward for him plus I prob wont even want a sly *** cos Im not into roll up!


I have no idea what the difference is but get the impression roll ups taste/feel different to some people? Only ever remember my dad having roll ups, Golden Virginia or something! And I remember him unrolling the little butts to scrimp a bit more baccy to make another ***, that was 5+ years ago god knows what he'll do now :scared:

Girls at uni say roll ups are that bad they prefer paying the extra so I'm guessing they are quite different? But like I said they only smoke a few a day so probably wont be hit so hard...


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I'm not allowed gum, it might get stuck in my braces :cryin:


Oh damn. Maybe try patches then?

You could get creative and start a new craze among non-smokers by arranging the patches into a fancy pattern down your arm or something? It might catch on you know.

:thumbup1:


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## MADCAT (Nov 21, 2008)

I dont smoke, my OH used to but quit over a year ago, I have got nothing against smoking though and I do think its unfair to put **** up as much as they do with every budget.
Everything is bad for us now a days, eating crap, smoking, sunbeds, drinking.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> I have no idea what the difference is but get the impression roll ups taste/feel different to some people? Only ever remember my dad having roll ups, Golden Virginia or something! And I remember him unrolling the little butts to scrimp a bit more baccy to make another ***, that was 5+ years ago god knows what he'll do now :scared:
> 
> Girls at uni say roll ups are that bad they prefer paying the extra so I'm guessing they are quite different? But like I said they only smoke a few a day so probably wont be hit so hard...


I think the idea of roll-ups is that you don't choose to smoke 'em. You just kind of do if you have limited funds. Most of the people I know who smoke roll ups are out of work.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> I have no idea what the difference is but get the impression roll ups taste/feel different to some people? Only ever remember my dad having roll ups, Golden Virginia or something! And I remember him unrolling the little butts to scrimp a bit more baccy to make another ***, that was 5+ years ago god knows what he'll do now :scared:
> 
> Girls at uni say roll ups are that bad they prefer paying the extra so I'm guessing they are quite different? But like I said they only smoke a few a day so probably wont be hit so hard...


Yeah Golden Virginia is still about! lol - it does taste a lot different IMO and I dont like it personally although Ive had a few in the past lol - Its far too strong tasting for me because there is no filter although the Benson & Hedges is not as rough on the throat as say Golden Virginia ....plus you have to roll them as well but the saving on buying normal ciggies is quite a lot! so OH says he will plod on with baccy! he could smoke anything lol:blink:


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Yeah Golden Virginia is still about! lol - it does taste a lot different IMO and I dont like it personally although Ive had a few in the past lol - Its far too strong tasting for me because there is no filter although the Benson & Hedges is not as rough on the throat as say Golden Virginia ....plus you have to roll them as well but the saving on buying normal ciggies is quite a lot! so OH says he will plod on with baccy! *he could smoke anything lol*:blink:


When I was younger, there was a rumour going round that smoking tea would have the same effect as cannabis.

I can confirm that this is not true.

I can also confirm that making a rollie from a tetley tea bag is no fun either.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

classixuk said:


> When I was younger, there was a rumour going round that smoking tea would have the same effect as cannabis.
> 
> I can confirm that this is not true.
> 
> I can also confirm that making a rollie from a tetley tea bag is no fun either.


PMSL!! I might try the tea bag out one night on the OH and see if he notices!!:devil::devil:


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> Yeah Golden Virginia is still about! lol - it does taste a lot different IMO and I dont like it personally although Ive had a few in the past lol - Its far too strong tasting for me because there is no filter although the Benson & Hedges is not as rough on the throat as say Golden Virginia ....plus you have to roll them as well but the saving on buying normal ciggies is quite a lot! so OH says he will plod on with baccy! he could smoke anything lol:blink:


Has he done snuff? Not sure what that works out at but my Dad went through a phase of it. Where he worked before he didn't have enough time to get outside, have a *** and get back in very quick and as he was skinny he'd go climb into the fumes cupboard, shut himself in and have a *** there :lol:

I think that might have been another reason for his snuff at one point, funny beggar.


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> PMSL!! I might try the tea bag out one night on the OH and see if he notices!!:devil::devil:


He'll look more like the PG Tips Chimp trying to roll it though. Believe me, it goes everywhere!

I can also confirm that smoking dried nutmeg is equally as useless. Every drag on the rollie gets you a mouthful of dried herbs hitting the back of your throat! Not nice (unless you really like the taste of nutmeg).


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

classixuk said:


> When I was younger, there was a rumour going round that smoking tea would have the same effect as cannabis.
> 
> I can confirm that this is not true.
> 
> I can also confirm that making a rollie from a tetley tea bag is no fun either.


You perhaps used the wrong Tea leaf!


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> Has he done snuff? Not sure what that works out at but my Dad went through a phase of it. Where he worked before he didn't have enough time to get outside, have a *** and get back in very quick and as he was skinny he'd go climb into the fumes cupboard, shut himself in and have a *** there :lol:
> 
> I think that might have been another reason for his snuff at one point, funny beggar.


No I dont think he has tried that lol :tongue_smilie:


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## smudgiesmummy (Nov 21, 2009)

well this topic is like a rollercoaster , i thought it was about the costs of smoking, its gone from that to other topics back to smoking back to something else .... when will people learn to keep on topic .... never is the case on here , and the bitching, some people need to grow up


im a non smoker and thats how im going to stay , ive never smoked in my life , never had the erge to do it either

imo if people want to smoke then go ahead and do it , not my problem if they want to waste their money or inhale the about of crap that comes off it

some of my friends smoke, including friends off here but do i have a go at them no , its their life , up to them what they do
only time i do complain is when its blown in my face , i have asthma and before the smoking ban came in i couldnt go in pubs as i couldnt breath so personally i was glad it happened

although i do agree they should have a indoor area for smokers , i know some premises have covered areas but a lot dont

on the pubs closing down , a mate of mine had a pub in a village that was busy before the smoking ban and as soon as the ban came in the customers were going down 

soon they are bringing in the no showing **** over the counter in supermarkets and then a bit later in smaller shops


this will kill a lot a trade

i do agree with the ammount of time the cost does go up though , smokers wont be able to afford smoking at this rate


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

classixuk said:


> When I was younger, there was a rumour going round that smoking tea would have the same effect as cannabis.
> 
> I can confirm that this is not true.
> 
> I can also confirm that making a rollie from a tetley tea bag is no fun either.


Or maybe you didn't take it outta the bag!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

classixuk said:


> I think the idea of roll-ups is that you don't choose to smoke 'em. You just kind of do if you have limited funds. Most of the people I know who smoke roll ups are out of work.


Oh, lots of older people I know smoke roll ups maybe thats a limited funds thing too? My Dad was in work but we didn't have much money and he was a drinker too so that's probably why he went for cheapo on the ****. Lidl £2.79 bottle of red wine as well


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## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

smudge2009 said:


> well this topic is like a rollercoaster , i thought it was about the costs of smoking, its gone from that to other topics back to smoking back to something else .... when will people learn to keep on topic .... never is the case on here , and the bitching, some people need to grow up
> 
> im a non smoker and thats how im going to stay , ive never smoked in my life , never had the erge to do it either
> 
> ...


It's been exactly a year since I gave up smoking.
And 364 days since I started again.

Loads of village pubs have closed down or gone up for sale since the smoking ban. I personally stopped going to our local pub quiz where we were regulars, as the smokers who knew the answers were often outside at a critical time.





DoubleTrouble said:


> Or maybe you didn't take it outta the bag!


Maybe I didn't try a posh enough brand?





GoldenShadow said:


> Oh, lots of older people I know smoke roll ups maybe thats a limited funds thing too? My Dad was in work but we didn't have much money and he was a drinker too so that's probably why he went for cheapo on the ****. Lidl £2.79 bottle of red wine as well


Thanks for the tip about the wine! LOL


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

classixuk said:


> It's been exactly a year since I gave up smoking.
> And 364 days since I started again.
> 
> Loads of village pubs have closed down or gone up for sale since the smoking ban. I personally stopped going to our local pub quiz where we were regulars, as the smokers who knew the answers were often outside at a critical time.
> ...


J*ust think of the moeny you saved by not smoking that 1 day though.That would have got you a half decent bottle of wine.
ps. its now cheaper to drink,Asda 3 for £10 That won't buy me 2 packs of ****.*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

classixuk said:


> How about sitting or lieing down then? Same problem?


*Nope tried that same problem.*


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

classixuk said:


> I think the idea of roll-ups is that you don't choose to smoke 'em. You just kind of do if you have limited funds. Most of the people I know who smoke roll ups are out of work.


My dad wouldn't smoke anything else. If he ran out of tobacco, he would pinch a cigarette off someone and unroll it to get the tobacco out and roll it himself.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

smudge2009 said:


> well this topic is like a rollercoaster , i thought it was about the costs of smoking, its gone from that to other topics back to smoking back to something else .... when will people learn to keep on topic .... never is the case on here , and the bitching, some people need to grow up


that's abit harsh, if it's about smoking then technically it's on topic, but some threads just evolve to talk about something else entirely, or have side topics that run in conjunction with the rest of the thread. it's the nature of forums, happens on them all, and can generate some really good new threads.

and besides, you've committed the aforementioned fauxpas yourself.. the thread is about the cost, not whether or not you're smoker and what you think of them 

back on topic, 
i mind the days when a packet of **** was just over a quid  i smoked for about 6 months then gave up cos i couldn't afford to keep MY MATES in ****!
the bludgers.


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## smudgiesmummy (Nov 21, 2009)

owieprone said:


> that's abit harsh, if it's about smoking then technically it's on topic, but some threads just evolve to talk about something else entirely, or have side topics that run in conjunction with the rest of the thread. it's the nature of forums, happens on them all, and can generate some really good new threads.
> 
> and besides, you've committed the aforementioned fauxpas yourself.. the thread is about the cost, not whether or not you're smoker and what you think of them
> 
> ...


i had to say how i felt about the comments that have been put on here, so no in that respect i had the rigt to do it so go roll your eyes at someone else

i had also put my comments about the cost so no i wasnt off topic and i was correct in saying how bitchy it gets on here :nono:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*European Ruling Sees Cigarette Prices Fall!
European Ruling Sees Cigarette Prices Fall | French News Archive
Now why can't this apply to the UK as well? *


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *European Ruling Sees Cigarette Prices Fall!
> European Ruling Sees Cigarette Prices Fall | French News Archive
> Now why can't this apply to the UK as well? *


I agree. We have to abide by such a lot of nonsense from Europe - so why can't we have some legislation that would benefit us for a change?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> I agree. We have to abide by such a lot of nonsense from Europe - so why can't we have some legislation that would benefit us for a change?


*I'm trying to find out the prices they pay in France for cigs..The ferry for a car and 2 adults is only £25. I've never understood why we have different rules for different countries even though we all belong to the EU.*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Ok the best i can come with is,
Ferry crossing £25 but not from Dover..But the price of my brand of cigs. on that ferry would cost me £42.10. Which means i would save me £11.90 a sleeve (200).Now we can bring back 3,200 each person,plus i get to buy my wine.
Hello David Cameron did you do your maths?:nono::lol::lol:
*


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

will the price increase put anyone OFF smoking?? I doubt it - I gave up last November after 20 (horrible) years of smoking, I gave up using e-cigs which I can't reccoment highly enough. I'm still "vaping" but not getting the billions of nasty chemicals and toxins in cigarettes, plus I'm not funding the governments latest tax increases


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Gopher said:


> will the price increase put anyone OFF smoking?? I doubt it - I gave up last November after 20 (horrible) years of smoking, I gave up using e-cigs which I can't reccoment highly enough. I'm still "vaping" but not getting the billions of nasty chemicals and toxins in cigarettes, plus I'm not funding the governments latest tax increases


*lol and if i buy mine in France i won't be helping with the tax here either.*


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol and if i buy mine in France i won't be helping with the tax here either.*


:lol: :lol: No, you'll just be paying tax on the petrol you put in your car to get to the ferry, then tax on the fuel the ferry uses to get to France and back, plus tax on the fuel once again when you get back on dry land to get you home :lol: :lol:


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## marion..d (Nov 12, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ok the best i can come with is,
> Ferry crossing £25 but not from Dover..But the price of my brand of cigs. on that ferry would cost me £42.10. Which means i would save me £11.90 a sleeve (200).Now we can bring back 3,200 each person,plus i get to buy my wine.
> Hello David Cameron did you do your maths?:nono::lol::lol:
> *


you taking orders...............


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Hi i deleted a couple of posts, you may continue with the debate about the increase in price now...But if you are a non smoker why not just start another thread or stay off this one if it upsets you that people smoke


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

canuckjill said:


> Hi i deleted a couple of posts, you may continue with the debate about the increase in price now...But if you are a non smoker why not just start another thread or stay off this one if it upsets you that people smoke


*Thankyou Jill, i said that pages ago.*


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

canuckjill said:


> Hi i deleted a couple of posts, you may continue with the debate about the increase in price now...But if you are a non smoker why not just start another thread or stay off this one if it upsets you that people smoke


What about the other insults Janice has been throwing around Jill? Tashi even read one of them and commented on the post, but it still remains?

Edited to add:

Freedom of speech and all that. Folks can post where they like right? But if it does make people terribly upset to read any posts then maybe for their own sake they should go and cool off instead of being insulting to other members


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I haven't re read the whole thread, was just checking in, when I get back from driving hubby to work i will re read it and edit if necessary but it will be all posts not just certain ones. If there is a particular post then report it so I can look at it. That goes for everyone on this thread....Jill


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Had people stayed on topic the non smokers had no reason to complain or comment.*


As far as I can see it has not been taken off topic until you started throwing insults around. Unless you want to be really picky, but they you've done it yourself numerous times in this thread. A bit hypocritical don't you think? 

It was your statement about adding the tax increase to fuel that drew a few people to this thread. They've ever right to comment on that because it effects them. The rest followed as a result of you being defensive.

Maybe once you've calmed down you can read back through it and see for yourself


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

Well, A big thumbs up here for the price hike as my niece is making an attempt to stop smoking. Okay only been a few days but she says it's given her the incentive she needed, money she saves will be going towards her new car 

So far so good with her. I think the amount she will now be paying a week finally hit home ... I hope so! I know it's not going to be easy, but at least she is trying 

So that's a nice positive comment for the thread for sure and as it is related to price of ciggies, relevant :thumbup:


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

canuckjill said:


> I haven't re read the whole thread, was just checking in, when I get back from driving hubby to work i will re read it and edit if necessary but it will be all posts not just certain ones. If there is a particular post then report it so I can look at it. That goes for everyone on this thread....Jill


Thinking on it some more Jill ... I think I'd rather the post stayed if you please. It shows the level folks will stoop to to insult someone. The post is much more damaging to Janice than it ever will be to me. So I've no problem with it remaining where it is, if I had a choice I would request it stayed too


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## smudgiesmummy (Nov 21, 2009)

in fairness it was taken off topic by smokers and non smokers , i can understand the debate but when people on both sides get offensive and its its getting out of hand

so why cant everyone play nicely and continue having the debate about what its about please instead of ganging up on each other , the mods have enough to to do without certain members keep going on about it 

now back on topic please 

... the price of cigs


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Tapir said:


> sorry but I have no sympathy, you chose to smoke, you have to pay the price.


No one asked for your sympathy, an opinion was expressed, and as smokers they bloody well have that right to be effed off about it, same as you would if the internet or cinema prices went up, tobacco may not be your choice, but it is others.



skyblue said:


> do you drink,well if you do you'd better stop,think of the damage you're doing
> 
> do you drive,better stop also.....you're breathing in fumes...and forget the school run
> 
> ...


  said it all in one post :tongue_smilie:



canuckjill said:


> When they stopped smoking in bars and Pubs here it took about 3 years for them that survived to get back to normal business. Several also supply a wind break with heaters for the winter for smokers to go outside for a quick one, when its 40 below believe me it is a quick one...lol


same as here mate, a lot of them went stagnant for a while and it had sweet fcuk all to do with cheaper booze elsewhere, that has been in the stores for a hell of a long time before the pubs went anti ***. Non smokers had no issue going out and mingling, and smokers mostly loitered in the beer garden section anyway, except for the minority of cry babies that chucked tantys about it, when if there health was that important they could have stayed at home in a bubble away from smoke and cars ( in case of been hit ) alcohol to protect there liver and anything else that could cause harm lol


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I felt the need to post on here because some of the posts (as one example) said the government can't ban **** else they lose too much money etc which I don't believe is true etc.

Think its gone off topic because if it stayed on topic it would have died a death a while ago. This post might not be hugely valuable, but its a bit better than some in the build up to it


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

GoldenShadow said:


> I felt the need to post on here because some of the posts (as one example) said the government can't ban **** else they lose too much money etc which I don't believe is true etc.
> 
> Think its gone off topic because if it stayed on topic it would have died a death a while ago. This post might not be hugely valuable, but its a bit better than some in the build up to it


I dont think they could ever ban smoking either! no effectivily anyway - there would be an uproar, and besides folk will always continue to smoke in their own homes.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *AND? what do you want,a medal or a chest to pin it on?*


EDIT: forgot to add...

Um no, I was simply offering information for anyone who doesn't know about them, who might actually be fed up of paying tax, and stinking of ****, putting their own and others health at risk ... Just basically offering a possible solution



Waterlily said:


> wtf  that is the most idiotic and arrogant speech on this thread, how is been annoyed about the cost of **** going up, and defending there freedom of choice been rude  you get your panties in a knot when comments are tossed at you, yet you have no issue serving them up :blink:


That's your opinion WL. When I read through this thread I was cringing at what Janice was saying. It sounded very selfish the way she was coming across. I wanted people who have never smoked to know that we don't all feel that way.

I also have not got my 'panties in a knot' :lol: Far from it thanks  What I said was a comment, not an insult. 



Waterlily said:


> bullshitt, you dont choose the internet, credit card luxuries like clothes and jewelery, holidays and food other then basic meat and veg ? get off your high horse before your shoved off.


None of those luxuries are going to put other peoples health at risk though are they?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

GoldenShadow said:


> I felt the need to post on here because some of the posts (as one example) said the government can't ban **** else they lose too much money etc which I don't believe is true etc.
> 
> Think its gone off topic because if it stayed on topic it would have died a death a while ago. This post might not be hugely valuable, but its a bit better than some in the build up to it


*TRUST me it is a FACT.Without smokers the NHS would be stuffed.I as a smoker have nothing to hide but the goverment do.*


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Without checking ... which country is it where smoking is completely banned except for in your own home? Or have I totally imagined that? :lol:


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Aurelia said:


> What about the other insults Janice has been throwing around Jill? Tashi even read one of them and commented on the post, but it still remains?
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> Freedom of speech and all that. Folks can post where they like right? But if it does make people terribly upset to read any posts then maybe for their own sake they should go and cool off instead of being insulting to other members


ok so I am guilty of not reading the whole thread or post, I was looking in after a reported post and all I saw was the word closed, only one person had complained at that particular time and so I didnt deem it fit to close the thread, I saw it as a passing comment and not a slating of you, so Tashi is guilty as charged


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *TRUST me it is a FACT.Without smokers the NHS would be stuffed.I as a smoker have nothing to hide but the goverment do.*


I just don't go with that train of thought. The NHS see (as far as I know) none of the money from tax on cigarettes and if we look at all the tax paid for everything across the UK only a very small % of that would go to the NHS, just like from everything else.

The NHS would do fine without smokers, the government would simply tax other areas if they wanted the NHS to survive. Smokers are just a very easy market to hit which gets complaint from next to no one who isn't a smoker hence they don't care/it doesn't affect quite a large number of people.

If the NHS goes belly up its simply a lack of funding issue I have a feeling the NHS is up the sh*tter after the budget now anyway


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> The non smokers started the crap, but as usual can't finish it.Now if you or others DON'T smoke find another thread.*


It wasn't just the non smokers. It was the smokers and the people in the process of giving up as well. The person you're in disagreement with at the moment isn't a non smoker.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

[*QUOTE=GoldenShadow;2327703]I just don't go with that train of thought. The NHS see (as far as I know) none of the money from tax on cigarettes and if we look at all the tax paid for everything across the UK only a very small % of that would go to the NHS, just like from everything else.

The NHS would do fine without smokers, the government would simply tax other areas if they wanted the NHS to survive. Smokers are just a very easy market to hit which gets complaint from next to no one who isn't a smoker hence they don't care/it doesn't affect quite a large number of people.

If the NHS goes belly up its simply a lack of funding issue I have a feeling the NHS is up the sh*tter after the budget now anyway [/QUOTE]

Ok the bottom line is,whatever goverment we have in they will screw joe public for every penny they can get.IF the NHS is in trouble then blame the tories.Maggie Thatcher was the same.She wouldn't have been happy until everone paid for private care.
But like smoking or not,the revenue got fro..m smokers would be missed if everyone gave up.
People might not like the smell, but they sure as hell like our money.*


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> [*QUOTE=GoldenShadow;2327703]I just don't go with that train of thought. The NHS see (as far as I know) none of the money from tax on cigarettes and if we look at all the tax paid for everything across the UK only a very small % of that would go to the NHS, just like from everything else.
> 
> The NHS would do fine without smokers, the government would simply tax other areas if they wanted the NHS to survive. Smokers are just a very easy market to hit which gets complaint from next to no one who isn't a smoker hence they don't care/it doesn't affect quite a large number of people.
> 
> If the NHS goes belly up its simply a lack of funding issue I have a feeling the NHS is up the sh*tter after the budget now anyway *


*

Ok the bottom line is,whatever goverment we have in they will screw joe public for every penny they can get.IF the NHS is in trouble then blame the tories.Maggie Thatcher was the same.She wouldn't have been happy until everone paid for private care.
But like smoking or not,the revenue got fro..m smokers would be missed if everyone gave up.
People might not like the smell, but they sure as hell like our money.*[/QUOTE]

aye, no doubt some of the fax-tax goes towards keeping the nhs afloat... it'd better! i'd rather it was spent on that that some lords new tweed underwear. not saying smokers should pay more like! not all smokers get ill! like me old father for instance. *touch wood*


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

This is now going way off topic and just turning into a 'tit' for 'tat', please can we get it back on track and keep to the debate in question


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *OK just for those who are too thick to understand everyday problems.this thread was about the tax on ****.Now if you don't smoke and its not a problem to you......why not move on...............nicely please,if you will.:mad2:*


Agh! but it ceased to be about the tax on **** when you , yourself, suggested the extra revenue could have been recouped from fuel!
Back on page one I believe!


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Shutting briefly to tidy up

Ok..... bit smarter now. Apologies if I've missed any, in advance. The thread can now be steered back on course:

*The Price increase on Cigarettes*


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Reopened


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)




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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I see this thread has had a small bashing lol. Reading it back its a good thread some really good points..... However I've got to stand by what I said in the beginning.

If the Tax rise encourages people to stop smoking so ineffect saves lives I am all for it.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> I see this thread has had a small bashing lol. Reading it back its a good thread some really good points..... However I've got to stand by what I said in the beginning.
> 
> If the Tax rise encourages people to stop smoking so ineffect saves lives I am all for it.


*The tax rise will not stop people smoking.As for saving lives which this thread is not about,then we could pick on a lot more subjects.*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *The tax rise will not stop people smoking.As for saving lives which this thread is not about,then we could pick on a lot more subjects.*


The tax rise might stop some, if they find the e-cig is a lot cheaper etc (I know its still smoking but I take it its not covered by the ban etc?).


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

ClaireLouise said:


> I see this thread has had a small bashing lol. Reading it back its a good thread some really good points..... However I've got to stand by what I said in the beginning.
> 
> If the Tax rise encourages people to stop smoking so ineffect saves lives I am all for it.


IF....the tax increase went 100% into encouraging people to stop smoking or finding a cure for cancer or heart disease I wouldn't object...but it doesn't...

It goes towards freebies to the banks and war and propping up the Euro in Greece,Portugal and Ireland...why should I pay more of my income in tax than a non smoker when it's being badly spent by politicians?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *The tax rise will not stop people smoking.As for saving lives which this thread is not about,then we could pick on a lot more subjects.*


It will save lives, New Leaf the NHS stop smoking service is stretched to its limit at present with people wanting to stop because of the budget. Everytime the price goes up more people stop!

This thread was about peoples opinions on the tax increase and mine is thats if people stop because of it, its a good thing.

As for other subject, yes there are other things we do thats arent good for tus. I would be more than willing to discuss them however this is a thread regarding smoking


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *The tax rise will not stop people smoking.As for saving lives which this thread is not about,then we could pick on a lot more subjects.*


It's stopping my niece, so far so good


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

poohdog said:


> IF....the tax increase went 100% into encouraging people to stop smoking or finding a cure for cancer or heart disease I wouldn't object...but it doesn't...
> 
> It goes towards freebies to the banks and war and propping up the Euro in Greece,Portugal and Ireland...why should I pay more of my income in tax than a non smoker when it's being badly spent by politicians?


The tax increase may not be about stopping people smoking but all I am saying is if it DOES get people to stop its a good thing IMO


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

Smoking is an addiction, just like all the other things that people are addicted too, it is not a fact of money, people will find the money if they need to have that addiction. 

Tax rise etc doesnt mean they will stop smoking at all. 

If life was that easy hey.


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

2 words...
GIVE UP


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

KathrynH said:


> Smoking is an addiction, just like all the other things that people are addicted too, it is not a fact of money, people will find the money if they need to have that addiction.
> 
> Tax rise etc doesnt mean they will stop smoking at all.
> 
> If life was that easy hey.


Well no price rise ever stopped me thats for sure! and yep! I moaned about em - everyone of em so guess that must have been fortyish budgets! When times are hard folk just look in other directions to stump up the extra! as I said earlier - maybe the daily paper!

But many many times I have heard people say that they will stop if they go up anymore - so yep! it does as Claire says encourage people to take the first steps to stopping. But the key is the smoker HAS to want to, it is no good railroading em into it! Me - I took the easy option - the e cig


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

KathrynH said:


> Smoking is an addiction, just like all the other things that people are addicted too, it is not a fact of money, people will find the money if they need to have that addiction.
> 
> Tax rise etc doesnt mean they will stop smoking at all.
> 
> If life was that easy hey.


Same as I said before Kath. The tax rise does mean people will stop. New Leaf is over stretched since the tax rise. 
Smoking is an addiction but one that loads of people are breaking each week. 
I know very few people who smoke that actually dont want to stop but then again the vast majority of smokers I come into contact with are dying.


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## Barney (Feb 24, 2008)

Its hard to stop smoking, i stopped 6 weeks ago, now every cigarette looks like it was made by god rolled by jesus and moistened shut with Claudia Schiffers pussy right now


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Barney said:


> Its hard to stop smoking, i stopped 6 weeks ago, now every cigarette looks like it was made by god rolled by jesus and moistened shut with Claudia Schiffers pussy right now


someone always comes along to lower the tone


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## Barney (Feb 24, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> someone always comes along to lower the tone


thought i would try to stop ya all moaning


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Barney said:


> thought i would try to stop ya all moaning


look barney no one moans as much as u  ive read your facebook page


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

It depends on each person's addiction in my opinion, if you need it that bad then you would do whatever it takes to get the extra money to pay for it whether that means robbing and then that puts the crime rates up in the UK as well which isnt good. 

Or you could stop smoking **** and buy tobacco and do your own roll ups which i am sure would be cheaper for you in the long run. 

The ban on pubs was a good idea for the non smokers but they made heaters and seats for people outside to smoke so didnt necessarily STOP people from smoking. 

It takes a hell of a lot of willpower to give them up, i wouldnt of stopped if the doctor's hadnt told me i was going to die i know that for sure. but thankfully i listened to the doctors.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Weird iI can get on the next page.. Page 50.. Just testing to see if when I post.. I can see it..


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Everyone has the capacity to give up smoking, it has never been easier and believe me i know as an ex hardened smoker who could still happily mug an old dear for a woodbine on the odd occasion.

People who still smoke do so by choice and that is their right but if they have to pay through the nose for that choice then that also is their choice.

I realised my habit was just about the most selfish one imaginable as i was pretty much destined to leave my loved ones grief stricken at my early departure if i had carried on with my old habit.

YES i loved it, YES i still miss it BUT i love my kids more and i would miss them more. Simples 

SOOoooo if you like your life and love your loved ones go out tomorrow and buy an e cig/patches/ herbal ciggies/gum etc etc and do THEM a favour OR carry on killing yourself and Sod em it's pretty straight forward really


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

KathrynH said:


> Smoking is an addiction, just like all the other things that people are addicted too, it is not a fact of money, people will find the money if they need to have that addiction.
> 
> Tax rise etc doesnt mean they will stop smoking at all.


I don't know to be quite honest if I was told choose between a holiday and never eating chocolate again I know what I'd press for... When smokers realise that they may as well burn their money they MAY think twice. I know of two recently who said they cannot afford a new car/holiday/deposit on their own home as they smoked...if you want something *that* much then an addiction is nothing to some people.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

I shall grow my own this year like I used to years back...Full duty has to be paid,not on the leaves but when they are shredded ready for use as per the EEC directive. :glare: And as in years past I shall burn the evidence... bit by bit.

PS. And if the purpose of the tax is to encourage folks to give up and not to screw money out of us.How come it's legal to grow your own in every country in the world?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> Everyone has the capacity to give up smoking, it has never been easier and believe me i know as an ex hardened smoker who could still happily mug an old dear for a woodbine on the odd occasion.
> 
> People who still smoke do so by choice and that is their right but if they have to pay through the nose for that choice then that also is their choice.
> 
> ...


*Its also peoples choice whether they drive a car or not but they moan about the tax on that.Whats the difference? And before anyone says people need their cars,no not all of them do.*


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Its also peoples choice whether they drive a car or not but they moan about the tax on that.Whats the difference? And before anyone says people need their cars,no not all of them do.*


I don't really get the comparison 

I haven't said people can't have a moan about it (thats what we do in this country, its part of our heritage lol) i was just pointing out that people do CHOOSE to smoke, which is up to them but IMO there is noone who physically can't give up.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

RAINYBOW said:


> I don't really get the comparison
> 
> I haven't said people can't have a moan about it (thats what we do in this country, its part of our heritage lol) i was just pointing out that people do CHOOSE to smoke, which is up to them but IMO there is noone who physically can't give up.


*The comparison was about the tax.People including myself are getting fed up with all these taxes,but the smokers got hit the hardest.*


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *The comparison was about the tax.People including myself are getting fed up with all these taxes,but the smokers got hit the hardest.*


as usual drinkers got it too


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *The comparison was about the tax.People including myself are getting fed up with all these taxes,but the smokers got hit the hardest.*


Only in that part of the budget, it's not like **** have been going up like fuel has in the last couple of years and that extends to household fuel too and people can't do without heating their homes 

Everyone's getting hit at the moment (some more than others like those who have lost their jobs with families to support), there is no escaping it and its obvious why they would hit smokers hard.

Obviously we SHOULD be raising more of the defecit from big business by making them pay proper taxes instead of allowing them to dodge as much as they possibly can but you will never get that ethos from a Tory Government.

TBH i am more concerned about the cuts to our public services for the sick old and vulnerable and the majority of the other services being privatised under the pretence that it is to save the economy so i can see why people who aren't affected by the smoking increase don't really sympathise that much when like i said you do have the option to give up.

Maybe try the herbal **** ?? MUCH much cheaper and better for you 

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=719&prodid=767


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> Maybe try the herbal **** ?? MUCH much cheaper and better for you
> 
> http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=719&prodid=767


Light one of those up with the stench of a wrestlers jock strap and you'd have the antis on here committing suicide.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

RAINYBOW said:


> I don't really get the comparison
> 
> I haven't said people can't have a moan about it (thats what we do in this country, its part of our heritage lol) i was just pointing out that people do CHOOSE to smoke, which is up to them but IMO there is noone who physically can't give up.


That's not strictly true though, is it? Pharmacological and behavioral characteristics that determine tobacco addiction are similar to those that determine addiction to drugs such as heroin and cocaine. Receptors in the brain alter to so that they physically need the drug in order to continue to function, and this makes withdrawal difficult. In addition, just like heroin and cocaine, nicotine stimulates production of dopamine which makes the user feel good and crave the next "fix".

Yes, it is possible to give up smoking, but it is just as difficult as giving up some Class A drugs and I am full of admiration for anyone who has managed to quit. So whilst I take and agree with some of your points in your later post about the need to provide money for necessary public services, it's a bit more complicated than saying people can just give up smoking if they object to paying the excessive tax on tobacco. There is a cost to the government in helping people to quit to take into consideration as well.


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *The comparison was about the tax.People including myself are getting fed up with all these taxes,but the smokers got hit the hardest.*


Better the big tax goes on what most people would consider non essential items though 

I'd so much rather see the tax banged on ciggies and alcohol than my shopping basket of food :thumbup1:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> Better the big tax goes on what most people would consider non essential items though
> 
> I'd so much rather see the tax banged on ciggies and alcohol than my shopping basket of food :thumbup1:


*Thats fine its your choice.Mine would have been to have the tax increase spread over everything.*


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## Amethyst (Jun 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Thats fine its your choice.Mine would have been to have the tax increase spread over everything.*


Guess you'll never keep everyone happy, this way the majority are at least 

Such is life ...


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> That's not strictly true though, is it? Pharmacological and behavioral characteristics that determine tobacco addiction are similar to those that determine addiction to drugs such as heroin and cocaine. Receptors in the brain alter to so that they physically need the drug in order to continue to function, and this makes withdrawal difficult. In addition, just like heroin and cocaine, nicotine stimulates production of dopamine which makes the user feel good and crave the next "fix".
> 
> Yes, it is possible to give up smoking, but it is just as difficult as giving up some Class A drugs and I am full of admiration for anyone who has managed to quit. So whilst I take and agree with some of your points in your later post about the need to provide money for necessary public services, it's a bit more complicated than saying people can just give up smoking if they object to paying the excessive tax on tobacco. There is a cost to the government in helping people to quit to take into consideration as well.


I am very well aware how hard it is, given up and gone back a few times  You never REALLY get over it, there are still days now where i have to stop myself from going and buying a packet and i gave up years ago (except for the odd drunken relapse) so i know exactly how addictive it is but there is ridiculous amounts of help/support and aids for those who truly want to kick the habit and as i said IMO anyone can give up. Both my parents did after watching my Nan die of lung cancer, my Grandad gave up the day he retired because he couldn't afford it anymore and i gave up despite smoking from the age of about 12. No it's not easy but it IS doable.

If you don't want to give up then fine, i take no issue with that and actually i was very against the smoking ban in Pubs and Clubs and i still think thats a nonsense so i am not some crusading ex smoker who wants to spoil everyone elses fun i was just making the point that it is a choice and you won't convince me otherwise and if it's a choice then it's also a luxury therefore you have to accept that the Government will always hit you harder than other essentials.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

poohdog said:


> Light one of those up with the stench of a wrestlers jock strap and you'd have the antis on here committing suicide.


LMAO, they couldn't moan about their health though  

Means instant Nicotine withdrawal though, full on cold turkey unless you bung a patch on with them and i wouldn't fancy that


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> Better the big tax goes on what most people would consider non essential items though
> 
> I'd so much rather see the tax banged on ciggies and alcohol than my shopping basket of food :thumbup1:





JANICE199 said:


> *Thats fine its your choice.Mine would have been to have the tax increase spread over everything.*


There is a third alternative. We could stop acting like brainless sheep and passively accepting as truth that the only way we can reduce our deficit is by huge tax increases and cutting public services. That is only one way forward - the way that protects rich bankers/ex public school pupils/ axtremely wealthy Tory voters at the expense of ordinary people such as you and I.

They could recoup the money the tax payer has paid to bail out the banks. They could (as Rainybow has pointed out) tighten loopholes so that businessess and company directors can't avoid paying the tax they should be paying. They could stop paying family allowance (or whatever it is called now) to Lord and Lady Muck from Sod Hall for their brood of hooray henries. They could raise the higher level of income tax so that the people who could afford to pay more to reduce the deficit do so, instead of penalising those who are least able to. But they won't - because (shock horror) that would affect Tory voters. 

But one thing is clear. While ever we argue and bicker amongst ourselves about which products huge tax increases should go on, the government will be rubbing their hands with glee - because it is diverting our focus from what it SHOULD be doing rather than what it IS doing.


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## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> There is a third alternative. We could stop acting like brainless sheep and passively accepting as truth that the only way we can reduce our deficit is by huge tax increases and cutting public services. That is only one way forward - the way that protects rich bankers/ex public school pupils/ axtremely wealthy Tory voters at the expense of ordinary people such as you and I.
> 
> They could recoup the money the tax payer has paid to bail out the banks. They could (as Rainybow has pointed out) tighten loopholes so that businessess and company directors can't avoid paying the tax they should be paying. They could stop paying family allowance (or whatever it is called now) to Lord and Lady Muck from Sod Hall for their brood of hooray henries. They could raise the higher level of income tax so that the people who could afford to pay more to reduce the deficit do so, instead of penalising those who are least able to. But they won't - because (shock horror) that would affect Tory voters.
> 
> But one thing is clear. While ever we argue and bicker amongst ourselves about which products huge tax increases should go on, the government will be rubbing their hands with glee - because it is diverting our focus from what it SHOULD be doing rather than what it IS doing.


I agree


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