# Advice on dog Labour



## drek7ng (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi All

Im looking for some advice on dog labor.

My dog is 1 1/2 years old and we didnt plan for her to get Pregnant yet it we heard her screaming upstairs and they where locked together on the 20th Feb but her nipples where Big a couple of weeks before this so we suspect they did it before so we are not sure on Dates. :-(

Well on Sunday she was acting strange and her belly was moving in ways ive never seen so after weeks of reading everything said that temperature will drop so I took her temp and it was 37.4 so we thought something must be happening.

Well nothing happened but have been taking her temp since.
Monday 02/04 9am 37.5 1pm 37.9 5pm 37.6 9pm 37.8
Tuesday 03/04 9am 37.4 1pm 37.7 5pm 37.1 9pm 37.8
Wednesday 04/04 9am 37.9

Last night 03/04 she was panting and kept getting up and moving then she was digging her bed and leeks a drop or clear fluid. but she stopped 2hours after and see is not doing anything now.

She is eating as normal only thing that is different today is she didn't get excited to go for a walk.

So could someone please give me some advice as to whats going on as after hours and hours of research i cant find nothing that matches the way she is.

Many thanks In advance

Dre


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

from the 20th feb to today , thats 44 days so if she caught that day shes way too early. why havent you taken this dog to the vets to get something confirmed ?????


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

You need a pattern of temperatures to be able to identify the drop anyway & from the ones you posted the initial temp seems within her normal range.

As Diablo said from the 20th Feb...way to early anyway & as you think there could be a couple of weeks variation  you really should have had her checked over & scanned to get a better idea of progress. As if you wait from the date from the 20th feb & she was pregnant a couple of weeks earlier you could risk losing mum & pups if she had inertia or other problems.


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## drek7ng (Apr 4, 2012)

Yeah I no that its 44 days from the 20th feb but she was getting bigger and nipples where huge about 2weeks before she has been to the vets twice and vet doesn't really say much he said she is a good size and she put on 5.5kg in just under 4 weeks. The vets are not very helpful so that's why I have posted on here to try and get some advice.

She is showing all the signs of labour but then stops is that normal?


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2012)

drek7ng said:


> Yeah I no that its 44 days from the 20th feb but she was getting bigger and nipples where huge about 2weeks before she has been to the vets twice and vet doesn't really say much he said she is a good size and she put on 5.5kg in just under 4 weeks. The vets are not very helpful so that's why I have posted on here to try and get some advice.
> 
> She is showing all the signs of labour but then stops is that normal?


take her to another vet , maybe get her scanned???


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

It depends on what you mean by showing the usual signs of labour.

Temp drop not very convincing as she has variable range including this temp.

Digging & panting for a bit then stopping also normal during pregnancy my girl has done this both times...mothering instinct kicking in due to hormones.

Alot of vets aren`t that clued up really on repro stuff so if you have one that isn`t going to give you anymore advise than what you have said i may try another. 

Sounds like you are doing your best so i`d just continue to monitor her but IMO i dont think what you described was labour beginning. However if you think she can be at term & are still concerned that she may have started & failed to progress then the vets for intervention would be the only course of action.


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## drek7ng (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks for your advice I have just called my vets to ask price of ultrasound and they want nearly £200 I thought that's way to much called another and that's £40 so she is going to have it tomorrow morning


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## claire & the gang (Nov 18, 2010)

drek7ng said:


> Thanks for your advice I have just called my vets to ask price of ultrasound and they want nearly £200 I thought that's way to much called another and that's £40 so she is going to have it tomorrow morning


Great news...it pays to phone around. Hope all goes well for you tomorrow


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## SharonM (Mar 2, 2010)

My main concern, if it is labour, is that she's not very big and if only one pup, labour may not kick in fully and you could risk losing both mum and pup. She really needs to see a vet sooner rather than later


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## drek7ng (Apr 4, 2012)

Them pics don't really help to be honest she is massive she struggles to get up now lol if she gets any bigger she won't be able to walk that's what makes be think its going to happen really soon.

I will post tomorrow and let you all no what the vet says about the scan.

Thanks everyone


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## pop pop (Nov 4, 2010)

hi, has she had a litter before? her nipples look like ones off a dog thats fed pups before


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## drek7ng (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi No this is her first and last litter.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Did you keep a note of the dates she was in season? Usually first off Proestrus you see a swelling of the vulva and a bloody discharge this lasts around 9 days as a guide but can vary, usually she wont allow the dog to mate.

Next comes Estrus when ovulation takes place, as a guide during the first 48 hrs but of course can vary, usually she will allow the dog to mate. I think planned its usually between days 10/14 mating takes place.Estrus too in total is approx 9 days.

Signs of pregnancy are increase in weight and appetite and enlarged nipples.
If she had enlarged nipples 2 weeks at least before you caught them mating 44 days ago I think someone worked it out too? Depending on if you can remember the dates of her season and if there is a possibility that they could have mated before that, then if you add 14 days on to the 44, thats coming out to around 58, period of gestation is I think 62/63 days, thats not far off, it could even be 62/63 days in total as you said her nipples had increased in size 2 weeks before it only needs to be not a lot over 2 weeks and 62/63 days coulld be easily reached. 

If her temperature did drop properly then usually around 24hrs after first stage of labour should begin. If nothing is happening and especially if you do know her exact dates of season and there is a possibility they could have mated before then I would have her straight to the vet. There is something called uterine inertia where they dont go into labour and can result in loss of mum and pups.

It happened to a new member in the last couple of days, and only the mum and one pup survived the other 6 were lost.

Having said all that a phantom pregnacy can also occur and have all the physical signs of pregnancy including milk production, but I would be checking her out if she was mine asap.


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## drek7ng (Apr 4, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Did you keep a note of the dates she was in season? Usually first off Proestrus you see a swelling of the vulva and a bloody discharge this lasts around 9 days as a guide but can vary, usually she wont allow the dog to mate.
> 
> Next comes Estrus when ovulation takes place, as a guide during the first 48 hrs but of course can vary, usually she will allow the dog to mate. I think planned its usually between days 10/14 mating takes place.Estrus too in total is approx 9 days.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the info im afraid we didn't keep track of her dates we didn't expect this to happen we did want her to have pups but not till next year.

She is going for a scan this morning so I will post what vet says when I get back thanks for your help.


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## drek7ng (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi all just to let you no that she is fine they did the scan and could see 4 but couldn't do anymore and couldn't shave to much as she is so far gone and it will be sore when she is feeding the puppies.

so now we just got to wait till she is ready.

Thanks everyone I will post again if I need anymore help when she goes into labour and will post pics of the pups.

Thanks everyone for your help.


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## pop pop (Nov 4, 2010)

glad you got a scan done how far along did they think she was? i never knew they shaved them to scan id be gutted if my girls coat had to be clipped off to have a scan done expesially if she wasnt in pup and i was wantng to show, not a good look..lol


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## drek7ng (Apr 4, 2012)

pop pop said:


> glad you got a scan done how far along did they think she was? i never knew they shaved them to scan id be gutted if my girls coat had to be clipped off to have a scan done expesially if she wasnt in pup and i was wantng to show, not a good look..lol


They said any day now I reckon this weekend as she has now off her food.

Yeah scan was really clear on the shaved part but was impossible to see on the hair but only shaved a little bit as they said it will be sore when pups feed and she could refuse to feed so best not to still glad I got it done put my mind at ease.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

drek7ng said:


> They said any day now I reckon this weekend as she has now off her food.
> 
> Yeah scan was really clear on the shaved part but was impossible to see on the hair but only shaved a little bit as they said it will be sore when pups feed and she could refuse to feed so best not to still glad I got it done put my mind at ease.


I know you said I think this is her first litter, but not sure if yours too?
if it is you may find this useful. Its about breeding from considering it to finish including whelping and what you need and how to look after the pups without tons of reading see link

http://www.akc.org/breeders/resources/guide_to_breeding_your_dog/pdf/guide_to_breeding_your_dog.pdf

This may be handy too Its The puppy Plan, there are two sections one for the breeder and early care giver and there is a down load at the end of it.
and when they go too their new homes there is a new owners section at the end of which is a plan for them to follow. It covers from birth to 16 weeks what you can do to socialise and handle them to give them the best start and make it easier when they go to new homes.The Puppy Plan

Just thought it may be useful.


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## AllAboutYourPets (Apr 6, 2012)

I'd make sure that you not only lock on to one single vet as in my experience some vets know vast more amounts of knowledge about pet labor than others. 

Just make sure to always keep in touch with the professionals so you can keep your favorite four-legged friend in great health and very happy.

Enjoy the new pups!


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## jo5 (Jun 22, 2011)

@sled dog hotel
That link for the Puppy Plan is really excellent, loads of info there, never seen it before
@poppop they only shave the belly so by the time they are ready for the show ring again they are back to normal
@drek7ng I hope Mum has a safe whelping there are experienced people here who will help you when its time


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

pop pop said:


> be gutted if my girls coat had to be clipped off to have a scan done expesially if she wasnt in pup and i was wantng to show, not a good look..lol





jo5 said:


> @poppop they only shave the belly so by the time they are ready for the show ring again they are back to normal


I guess it depends on the breed, I've had my girls scanned and shown them post scan with no issies.

As Jo says - if the bitch is in whelp - it's going to be a while post puppies before she is out in the ring anyway - a lot of girls naturally lose a lot of their hair as their whelping date approaches

OP - hope everything goes smoothly for your girl. Personally, I don't take temperatures, my vet advised me that novices can easily hit the bowel wall giving false readings - better to watch behaviour


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## Ridgielover (Apr 16, 2008)

For anyone reading this, it is easy to go to the vet after a bitch has been mated "by accident" and have an injection to ensure that she doesn't go on to have puppies. Just call your vet for advice about timings. It is so disappointing to read about yet another unplanned litter of puppies about to be born when there are so many dogs needing homes


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## drek7ng (Apr 4, 2012)

Well it's the same as humans I was brought up in children's homes with no family no one that loved me there are 1000s of kids that need homes but don't get them but u don't see people saying don't have kids adopt one and for your info all of my pup are going to friends and family that will love and take good Care of them I don't believe in killing anything born or unborn that is murder and you are evil for thinking that


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

Ridgielover said:


> For anyone reading this, it is easy to go to the vet after a bitch has been mated "by accident" and have an injection to ensure that she doesn't go on to have puppies. Just call your vet for advice about timings. It is so disappointing to read about yet another unplanned litter of puppies about to be born when there are so many dogs needing homes


glad someone else said it!!


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

drek7ng said:


> Well it's the same as humans I was brought up in children's homes with no family no one that loved me there are 1000s of kids that need homes but don't get them but u don't see people saying don't have kids adopt one and for your info all of my pup are going to friends and family that will love and take good Care of them I don't believe in killing anything born or unborn that is murder and you are evil for thinking that


There is a very big difference between humans and dogs.

Dogs can get pushed from pillar to post and lead very tragic and shortened lives, because often, the way they are homed, once the cuteness wears off, so does the interest, these pups end up in rescue where often no-one wants them, so then they ARE PTS - living, breathing creatures who through absolutely no fault of their own have a short and miserable life until they end up being PTS. Only this week, we saw a new member bring a pup into it's SECOND home at 8 weeks - fingers crossed he is going to be one of the lucky ones.

Sadly, that is not for the purposes of trying to be dramatic - it is a very true and sad fact and there are members on this site heavily involved in rescue who can tell you first hand - I only get involved on the very fringes and even the siights I've seen have wrenched at my heartstrings.

I have yet to see anyone being able to home a litter of pups with family and friends, they tend to fade into the background when the idea becomes a reality 

The sad truth is that every time a bitch has a litter, it puts her at risk, if she is very young (like yours) or very old, these risks increase considerably.

I do hope everything goes smoothly for you because of the stage you are at there are no alternatives, but believe me, it's not funny when your beloved bitch dies (as happened to a member on here recently), when she maybe attacks and tries to kill the babies (also happened to a member on here recently) or one or more of the pups dies (happened to a member today and so many of us before) - or your girl needs a c-section over the easter weekend which could easily cost you up to a £1,000.

The harsh reality is there is a lot of unwanted dogs out there and the even harsher reality is that a very large number of them are your breed, or crosses of your breed


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

^^^^^
well said


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

drek7ng said:


> Well it's the same as humans I was brought up in children's homes with no family no one that loved me there are 1000s of kids that need homes but don't get them but u don't see people saying don't have kids adopt one and for your info all of my pup are going to friends and family that will love and take good Care of them I don't believe in killing anything born or unborn that is murder and you are evil for thinking that


How is it murder? The sperm wouldnt have had time to reach the egg, nothing would be formed, mis-mate from what I beleive is like the morning after pill, surely you dont beleive that is 'murder' aswell?? :001_huh:

Just out of interest what breed is the mum & dad?


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi not sure if ive missed it on here , is your dog a staffie? what breed of dog has she mated with?


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

If you consider a mismate injection murder then a woman with a coil (IUD) must also be a murderer, as an egg can be fertilised every month but will not imbed in the uterine wall because of a foriegn body in the womb. To me that is not murder as it is just a mass of cells at that stage and has no heartbeat! Much the same as a mismate jab given early.

If your girl is a Staffy and I believe she is I wonder what her pups futures will hold - and any pups they go on to produce and pups from those pups, etc. etc. 
Looking on Pets4homes yesterday, there are pages of Staffy's - both rescues and private ads, free/adoption, 26 pages on just one site. Blue Staffy's seem to be all the rage and will no doubt soon be filling recess too.

I hope everything goes well for your little girl as none of this was her idea or fault and that her puppies have wonderful, loving forever homes and are NEVER bred from. Sometimes though it is best never to be born at all if a life of neglect and abuse is all there is to look forward to, or languishing away in some shelter or rescue, worse still ending up in the hands of some unscrupulous fighting ring as a bait dog! May never happen to your girls babies but once out of your hands who truly can say what may happen to any pups these babies may later produce?
Yep, sometimes "murder" as you wish to call it is by far a better option!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Whilst Normally I agree if it had just happened/not long happened then Mis Mate would have likely been the best bet. The Op though did catch them 44 days previously but already mentioned that she was showing what could be pregnancy signs two weeks before that. 14 days added onto the 44 days ago they were caught made 58 days not so far off the 62 days I believe it is total gestation. The scan she has had since posting seems to confirm any time now. So in this case it was probably late in the day. Which is why the OP thought it murder as you would be killing almost full term puppies. 

Under the circumstances I think damage limitation is the best course, and probably the only one in this situation insuring its a safe birth for mum and pups and that the pups are raised well to ensure they get the best possible chance in life. probably not an ieal situation with the number of homeless staffies granted.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Under the circumstances I think damage limitation is the best course, and probably the only one in this situation insuring its a safe birth for mum and pups and that the pups are raised well to ensure they get the best possible chance in life. probably not an ieal situation with the number of homeless staffies granted.


I did say in my post I hope nothing bad happens - because I would hate anyone to have to deal with that whatever the circumstances.

It's just such a shame that people don't ask for help earlier - and secondly, I am still completely fascinated by how many "accidental" matings there are - when people like (and I am not alone) struggle to bring two fully health tested dogs together with re-enforcements and fail - yet here - it seems there are members dogs sh*gging all over the place and producing babies - doesn't seem right somehow


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

swarthy said:


> I did say in my post I hope nothing bad happens - because I would hate anyone to have to deal with that whatever the circumstances.
> 
> It's just such a shame that people don't ask for help earlier - and secondly, I am still completely fascinated by how many "accidental" matings there are - when people like (and I am not alone) struggle to bring two fully health tested dogs together with re-enforcements and fail - yet here - it seems there are members dogs sh*gging all over the place and producing babies - doesn't seem right somehow


Im not saying its right by any means, and I was reffering to the several posts that suggested mismate. At almost full term except for a few days it was a bit late on this occasion thats why I didnt mention it in my earlier posts where I have in previous threads.

I do agree too I wish people would seek help at much earlier times. I always worry in other threads where people ask breeding advice after the dog has been mated, or not far off whelping, and in some cases when they may have even started.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I too wouldn't advise a mismate late in pregnancy but these two dogs were apparently caught during a tie (20th Feb) and you can't get earlier than that to terminate a pregnancy - - can you?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Malmum said:


> I too wouldn't advise a mismate late in pregnancy but these two dogs were apparently caught during a tie (20th Feb) and you can't get earlier than that to terminate a pregnancy - - can you?


Then it would be OK but the Op didnt post until 44 days after they were caught, and apparently the bitch before that had been showing possible signs od pregnancy for 2 weeks, probably making it possibly 58 days plus before they posted. The scan now seems to have confirmed that she might well have been pregnant before they were actually caught at it.


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## drek7ng (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm sorry I misunderstood what u ment when I said it's murder we did take her to the vets on the 21st Feb for the injection and the vet said that it was to late as her nipples where already big he said that she is very healthy and a good size and she will be fine to have pups.

And for all that keep saying she is a staff she is not she is 10x the size of a staff lol she is 3/4 English bullmastiff and 1/4 staff my other dog that matted with her is rottiee cross English bullmastiff.

I did not plan for this to happen to her but it has happened and I'm trying to do my best for her I understand that there are to many animals suffering and I wish I could help them I really do but that's no reason for you to be mean to me about it I joined this forum to seek help from people that have done this before.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2012)

drek7ng said:


> And for all that keep saying she is a staff she is not she is 10x the size of a staff lol she is 3/4 English bullmastiff and 1/4 staff my other dog that matted with her is rottiee cross English bullmastiff.


no such breed as english bullmastiff , its bullmastiff. anyway , regardless of that i`d keep a really close eye on her it`s possible she may not be able to pass pups and may need emergency surgery to give birth , i`d be watching her very closely.


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

please get your male nuetered so this can not happen again.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

drek7ng said:


> I'm sorry I misunderstood what u ment when I said it's murder we did take her to the vets on the 21st Feb for the injection and the vet said that it was to late as her nipples where already big he said that she is very healthy and a good size and she will be fine to have pups.
> 
> And for all that keep saying she is a staff she is not she is 10x the size of a staff lol she is 3/4 English bullmastiff and 1/4 staff my other dog that matted with her is rottiee cross English bullmastiff.
> 
> I did not plan for this to happen to her but it has happened and I'm trying to do my best for her I understand that there are to many animals suffering and I wish I could help them I really do but that's no reason for you to be mean to me about it I joined this forum to seek help from people that have done this before.


If you did take her on the 21st Feb, the day after you caught them, then according to the Alizin site that is one of the newer Mis mates I think, you can actually give it up to 45 days into pregnancy so if she still hasnt had the pups she would have been well within the time, as she couldnt have been much more then a couple of weeks if she still hasnt had them yet.

if you took her though and the vet wouldnt give it then I guess you did try and can only be guided by him. Its no good speculating now anyhow and the main thing is she has a safe delivery and mum and pups are OK, and the pups get the best possible start in life.

I would certainly think about getting her spayed and your male neutered though to make sure it cant happen again, even though you caught them the once from what you say and the dates they must have aready mated without you knowing and it could so easily happen again.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

If your vet said the 21st was too late he/she needs reporting to the RCVS complaints - that kind of advice sucks and if anything happens to your girl you could sue the practice! No wonder shelters are full with that kind of advice being banded about by professionals - beggars belief actually since it can be given weeks after mating, not that I would do it late in pregnancy. 

Let's hope all goes well for your girl and the pups don't look the 'type' as depending on where you live so many staff/mastiff crosses are confiscated by ignorant police and dealt with by ignorant judges who wouldn't know a pitbull from a mongrel in a million years!
Good luck!


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