# Canary with hole in his beak



## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

I am finding great difficulty operating on this forum, but have several queries about 3 canaries I have inherited. I live in the south of France and it is difficult to find someone to help. Rona kindly suggested Paul Dunham to help, but no idea of his mail address or how to contact him. Help, Jacqui


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

You can contact Paul Dunham via the private message system on here...I'm a breeder but not of canaries...but may be able to help.Post your problem here.


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Poohdog, what a lovely name. I have a dachshund and I love Pooh bear.
Enough said. Perhaps you can help me. I have inherited 3 canaries, 2 females, the dominant older one is orange and the other one pale yellow, both ringed plus a little orange male who is unringed and could be the offspring of the female, who is always nesting and produces unfertile eggs.
My worry is the little male who seems to have developed a tiny black spot/hole by the side of his beak. He has also lost nearly all his tail feathers in the last 2 weeks. He appears very happy and healthy, he eats, grooms, bathes and sings quite a lot, so I don't think it is anything very serious but worry about an infection or something. They are in a large cage on my sheltered terrace here in the south of France where they have always lived. I have had them for 6 months. I clean bowls, water etc regularly and give them some fresh greens, change the grit about once a month. Am I worrying too much being a beginner at keeping birds.
Thanks for answering my message. Jacqui


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Did they live inside before you had them?


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Hawksport, The canaries have always been in the same cage on outside but covered terraces here in this same area. I cover them at night but they have never been kept indoors. There has been a visiting cat from time to time which I try to get rid of, it can't get anywhere near them as they are in a tall cage way off the ground , but could it have stressed the bird? The male is singing away at the moment. He says Hi.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

I was just thinking that if they had previously been kept inside being moved outside and getting more sunlight could of triggered a bad moult


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Hawksport, I have occasionally recently wheeled the cage out into late afternoon sun as the terrace is rather dark and North facing. Could this be the answer as it is a new problem? Jacqui


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Your problem doesn't sound as bad as in your first post.If your bird does have a hole in the side of the beak and it appears getting worse, a visit to an avian vet is recommended.
Skip the 'grit'... finches and canaries don't need it.Crushed eggshells (microwave one minute on full) or oystershell will be all they need.Grated Hard boiled egg occasionally would be appreciated by canaries.

Keep that damned cat away...


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

A birds moult is controlled by the hours of light it recieves. If they are kept indoors where they get the same amount of light throughout the year they don't realy get a proper annual moult they just moult slowly through the whole year. So if he is now getting more light especialy sunlight that could be the reason. Because the increase in hours of light have come suddenly that could make him drop feathers quickly rather than dropping one and growing the replacement about halfway before the next on drops.
The problem you might have now is because they have all dropped at the same time when the new ones grow there won't be a grown feather each side of the new one to protect it. You will have to be carefull with him and not let anything upset him while his new tail grows. If he starts flapping round in his cage he could damage the new feathers, they will bleed and could grow deformed. Also any strees he is put under will stop the blood flow into the feather while it is growing and cause a fret mark across it which will be a weak point.


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Hawksport, I have occasionally recently wheeled the cage out into late afternoon sun as the terrace is rather dark and North facing. Could this be the answer as it is a new problem? Jacqui


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Poohdog and Hawksport and everyone,
The good news is the canary, Francis, with the sort of hole by his beak, that looks a lot better, but he has now lost all his tail feathers.He seems to lose them at night, when they are covered against cold draughts. Could this upset his balance? He seems to be OK up and down the cage. The rest of his plumage is in good condition, he is eating, bathing, preening and singing his heart out. The main stresses could be occasional cats curious but impotent, also a very demanding dominant female, who might be his mother but who is nest building, displaying etc. I did catch Francis picking up nest building stuff today. Also the little foreign yellow female has been a bit braver today, coming to the front of the cage and trying to sing. Perhaps Francis has got woman trouble? The sun is shining here today but birds are under cover.
Bye for now Jacqui


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Did you get in contact with Paul? http://www.petforums.co.uk/members/paul-dunham-page2.html


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Hawksport, since I spoke to you the little male's beak is better, but he has now lost all his tail feathers, but the dominant female now has the same problem by her beak. I have sent a longish private message to Paul Dunham and hope to hear from him before I further distress the birds by taking them to my marvellous Vet who also does birds but is 30 mins away.
Best wishes and thank you for your continued input. Jacqui


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

I have posted several messages which do not seem to have appeared. Thanks to Hawsport and Poohdog have contacted, hopefully, Paul Dunham, yesterday. No reply yet and none of my other messages seem to have appeared on the forum. What am I dong wrong? 
The first canary's hole in beak seems to have got better, but he has lost all his tail feathers, and now the dominant female appears to have the same sort of hole above her beak. All otherwise very happy, and boy is singing like mad. Why have I not heard from anyone? Have I inadvertantly wiped off some additions to the forum? Help. Jacqui.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

He has not been on for a couple of days but I have left a message for him


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks Hawksport, I await news from Paul Dunham. Meanwhile aforesaid canary is singing like.......a canary. Best wishes, Jacqui


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Hawksport, Still no reply from Paul Dunhamm. Meanwhile the little canary is quickly regrowing his tail feathers, but the other dominant female has these black spots around her beak. Nobody seems to be able to explain them. I also have a query about minimum temperatures for the birds outside in winter. I had a site for 
Pet Bird Canary FAQ
which someone gave me a while back and I had masses of info, but does not seem to function now. Any ideas? Thanks, Jacqui


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Paul still hasn't been on here but the canary link worked for me.


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Hawksport, I found the canary site ok finally thanks ,on
The Canary FAQ, with masses of info and the
details there and my Vet say canaries CAN survive temps 0-100, not ideal, but cold winds and drafts are BAD. and can cause stress, so, today we have rigged up a temporary clear plastic shield on the North side of the cage, which is under cover against the house, totally dry, no rain, and dappled light.
The dominant female still has a few black spots round her beak. Perhaps this is normal in the moulting season. I will read on.
What a responsibility! In January I take on 2 Shitsus (is that how you spell it?) from the same couple from whom I inherited the canaries. But only for 6 weeks. One however needs injections fo some problem. They are 9 year olds brother and sister. I hope they will not pick on my 16 year old male wire-(rough) haired Dachshund. They do know each other. He is very gentle and old, although his breed are used for hunting wild boar here, he has only ever hunted geckos. 
I now have a mouse in the house, and have bought a cage to trap it. Previously I have poisoned or used traps to kill, but I can't bring myself to do that any more. I guess from your name you are probably a hunter and don't agree with me on this?
Bye, Jacqui


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi everyone, Paul has been in touch with me and the good news is the canary's tail feathers are growing back rapidly! The black spots by the beak seem to have gone.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

It might be a good idea to feed some mashed up hard boiled egg, growing feathers takes a lot of protein


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi everyone, sorry if this is a repeated message. I am not very good at computers. The good news is I have heard from Paul Dunham, and the canary's tail feathers are growing back rapidly.Also, no more black spots on his beak. Jacqui.


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

I am really in a muddle with getting the hang of this forum. Yesterday I wrote that the little canary was better, but this morning I saw he has got two spots by his beak again. I could not find my yesterday's posting. Help, Jacqui


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Well it's there above your todays posting....get a picture on here if you can.


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## Paul Dunham (Apr 1, 2010)

Hi everyone, sorry I haven't been around. I've just started a new job and I have had very little time on line just lately. It seems Hawksport & Poohdog have been giving you some very good advice. Initially the symtoms appeared very serious. But to be honest it seems that perhaps it's just the result of an irregular moult. Domestic birds often in an artificial environment exhibit abnormal moults from time to time where the causes could be attributed to either breeding, dietary or even environmental conditions. Some caged birds do appear to lose most of their feathers all at once, (especially with extended photo periods) including their entire tail. The holes in the beak is what confuses me. It would have been nice to see a picture. Maybe there was a slight calcium deficiency during the moulting period which you corrected through providing a better diet. However, it sounds like everything is on the mend and they are now recovering. It would be interesting to find out what happens during their next moult.


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## Paul Dunham (Apr 1, 2010)

jacqui.kam said:


> I am really in a muddle with getting the hang of this forum. Yesterday I wrote that the little canary was better, but this morning I saw he has got two spots by his beak again. I could not find my yesterday's posting. Help, Jacqui


This probably won't disapear over night. it will take time. Some birds never get rid of what is probably a genetic problem.


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Dear Paul, thanks for your message. I will try to put the photo, not very clear, on the forum. Otherwise the bird is eating, I've given him some extra protein, hardboiled egg and a few drops of Vitaplume in the water. He is singing today as the sun is out. PS How do I include my photo which I have on my computer? If I go on insert picture,it gives me an http link?Thanks, Jacqui


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Paul and you other helpful friends. Since I last sent a message, the little canary has recovered.He has grown his tail feathers and what I thought was a hole in his beak must just be some discoloration. I finally managed to get a not very good pic, but didn't know how to get it onto the forum from my computer. Any help on this? Now unfortunately the dominant female is going through a very painful large moult. I'm giving her hardboiled egg and Vitaplume in her water. It is rather a worrying time for an amateur like me. How often, and what time of year can I expect this? Jacqui.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

If they were outside they would moult each summer with the increase in daylight hours. If they are inside they will moult slowly throughout the year. Don't worry birds have been moulting for millions of years.


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Hawksport, Thanks for the reassurance. The girl is still looking very moth-eaten and uncomfortable, but is eating well. It is colder here now, about 10C and has been raining a lot. They are outside on the terrace but very sheltered and under cover, with no draughts,and at night I cover them well.
Will keep you posted. Still no hints as to how to put a photo on the forum?
While sending you this I have just caught that bloody cat by their cage again. It cannot possibly touch them, the cage is too high, but must frighten them. How can I deter it? Too many cats around here. All the best, Jacqui.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

It's the cats that have to be protected from the birds here


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## jacqui.kam (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Hawksport, the female is still in a very sorry state with clumps of feathers missing. She is eating and bathing well, but seems to pull the feathers out herself. Is this due to pain? My vet is 30 minutes away and I don't want to put her under more stress than necessary. How long can a moult go on for? She looks so uncomfortable and it is getting colder for a little bird with diminished feathers. Jacqui


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