# Mongrel v pedigree



## ali 63 (Nov 5, 2010)

I have been wondering for some time what peoples oppinion was on all this 
cross breeding,
I hope i dont get shot for this but , firstly i do understand as iv been told that pedigree breeds suffer more ailments so by crossing them it keeps these illnesses down, as i know when i was growing up we had mongrels at home and so did most of my friends, quite rare if someone had a pedigree it was like "wow", & all our dogs where healthy ,
but years later went on to show & breed welsh cobs & the breeding lines where so important to me, so we could trace back & keep the lines going ,not using any unregistered stock.& would have to pay good money to get these lines , Which you didnt mind as you had that breeding, 
& same now with my shih tzus yet again the lines are important, you have the kc papers for your dogs to know youve got pedigree stock, yet now we have all these crosses , be it 1st cross or not & can and are selling in some instances for more than the pedigree, & at the end of the day 1st cross or not there mongrels, dont get me wrong i love all dogs i just cant get my head around the fact that my friend has just bought a" jackapoo" for over £400 im amazed, hes lovely i know But .... i hope i havnt offended anybody but do you see what im trying to say.. hopefully someone can explain it to me.:confused1:


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## pop pop (Nov 4, 2010)

We were the same when i was little, although we had greyhounds we also had a heinze 57 who we never had any problems with, many people say that cross breeds dont have the health problems which you get with pedegree dogs however it can go the other way, you can end up with twice as many problems as if both breeds have problems either can show up in a cross of the breeds. Pedagree dogs are great as long as you get from health tested parents that way you know you more likely to avoid health problems in the future, i would also say and this is just my opinion but alot of these people selling designer cross dogs for stupid high prices are in it for the money and are not doing it from health tested parents,so you stand to have health problems in the future, now i know some do test the parents and im not in anyway saying they dont but you get what i mean


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

Sadly people believe cross's are more healthy than pedigree dogs which if badly bred could be true however MOST breeders are good breeders who breed pedigree dogs for health rather than just for looks they health test and ensure that their lines are not bred with ill lines within their breed by endorsing any puppies.

I have 3 pedigree dogs and 1 cross breed, the cross breed has been in worse health than the 3 pedigree dogs put together. 

If you take a for example gsd and cross it with a collie you have a fair chance of it having the same health problems as both breeds such as AF and CEA/PRA. 

Again there are healthy cross breeds but most cross breed breeders dont health test like pedigree breeders do.

My only issues with cross breed breeders are:
-They rarely health test their dogs so could well be selling very ill dogs.
-They are contributing to the large number of cross breeds in rescues.
-They make up fancy names and charge ALOT for them, such as cockapoo (£700), puggle (£600) and lately I have been seeing alot of Sprollies (£250, £300).

In the 90's they just refaired to them as a cross now they are fancy cross's.

Its sad because they dont health test, they dont care about the health of the dog they just want to make some money.

(Not saying all cross breed breeders but MOST).


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

In my opinion I think pedigree dogs are healthier, as long as they are from carefully bred health teted parents. There are many studies on pedigree dogs but how can you do a study on a mongrels that are all different. More health problems are reported from pedigrees as it is hoped something can be done to prevent problems getting to big with specialised breeding programmes. This cannot be done with a mongrel again as they are all different. we have 3 dogs 2 pedigree and 1 mongrel. Our pedigree dogs (touch wood) are healthy dogs. Our cross breed has grass allergy /food allergy and is no where near as calm and balanced as our other dogs. We have raised them all the same but he has got the 2 very different breed characteristics Gundog/staff terrier, and this has proved challenging in training as he has what you may call the most awkward characteristics of both breeds. Its always down to personal choice but remember not to believe all you hear about cross breeds being healthier they can often have 2 lots of breed health problems.


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

The comments that get my goat,like 
'More health problems are reported from pedigrees as it is hoped something can be done to prevent problems getting to big with specialised breeding programmes.'
Explain what can be done, and how?


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

I have a Cavapoo and Cockapoo.

Cockapoos can sell from good breeders for around £700-850!

Now whilst there are good & bad breeders in both Pedigree and Crossbreed breeders, Why should a crossbreed fromPedigree parents be less than a Pedigree? the costs are similar? ( except you can't KC register)

My dogs all have pedigree parentage and some health tests done on the parents too.

My Cavapoo breeder is mainly a cocker spaniel and Cockapoo breeder. Her sires and dams are chosen for their looks, personalities and have health checks. They all come from a long line of pedigrees.

I class Crossbreeds differently to mongrels as usually these are the mating of two pedigrees of known parentage whereas mongrels are mixed of not known parentage.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I class Crossbreeds differently to mongrels as usually these are the mating of two pedigrees of known parentage whereas mongrels are mixed of not known parentage.


Why? I understand that its because mongrel's are unknown breeds but like I keep saying in the 90's and before the 90's a cockapoo would be called a mongrel. 
In the 90's a family friend had a accident litter of labradoodle's but back then she just sold them for £20 each as mongrel's and the ones that didnt sell she gave away.

Why would someone breed cavapoo's may I ask? Surely if you like cavaliers just get a cavalier. If you like poodles just get a poodle?

Or am I missing something? (Not having a go, just trying to understand).


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

Years ago,they were mongrels.So they should still be now.Whats changed?


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

holly1 said:


> Years ago,they were mongrels.So they should still be now.Whats changed?


Designer names came along with high prices.

Allow me to show:
Chug : £300









Cocker - Pei : £200









Chi-poo : £450









Boxador : £250









Hug (Aparently husky cross pug)









Jug : £300









Pug cross sharpie (Ori pei)









Peek-a-poo









Weimardoodle









Now is it me or are some of these cross's just silly?
To me I love german shepherds and shelties but I would NEVER cross them, I like them as individual's so I will keep them that way.


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

Good god.What eye sores some of those dogs are.The names are ridiculous too.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Rupert is a cross breed. 

When anyone asks what he is, I tell them hes a JRT x Westie. 

"Oooh, what's the name for that then?"

"A mutt."


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> Rupert is a cross breed.
> 
> When anyone asks what he is, I tell them hes a JRT x Westie.
> 
> ...


Exactly.

Most cross breed's are from un-health tested pretty average parents (by average I mean not show dogs/big show winners) so lets do this.

For £650 you can get a FULL pedigree min poodle with kc papers. But for £700/£750 you can get a cross breed cockapoo.

And then you come across breeders like this:

"Jackadoodle Puppies
£350

Lovely litter of jackadoodles,mum mini jack russel dad toy poodle,both have excellent nature and can be seen.We have a black male and 2 brown females,ready 27th Nov,deposits now being taken,to good homes,possible delivery,£350 each."

and

"**Cavapoo Puppies Ready Now**
£550

(just one female left)Due to the amazing responce and high demand of our last litters,we have a stunning litter of adorable cavapoo puppies.Mum cavalier and dad toy poodle.These puppies have fantastic temperaments they are friendly,affectionate,playful,intelegent,trainable,excellent with children,making them an ideal family pet.They have a low - non shedding hypo allergenic coat.They have been raised in our family home and both parents can be seen,to good homes only,£550 each,possible delivery if no transport"

Which are both being sold by the same person...only a couple of weeks between them too.

So a jackapoo litter and a cavapoo litter at the same time £900 if she sold 1 from each litter.

Then you get the good breeders who do care and health test but you dont see their adverts because they plan homes for their dogs before breeding.


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## ali 63 (Nov 5, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Why? I understand that its because mongrel's are unknown breeds but like I keep saying in the 90's and before the 90's a cockapoo would be called a mongrel.
> In the 90's a family friend had a accident litter of labradoodle's but back then she just sold them for £20 each as mongrel's and the ones that didnt sell she gave away.
> 
> Why would someone breed cavapoo's may I ask? Surely if you like cavaliers just get a cavalier. If you like poodles just get a poodle?
> ...


Exactly , Yes this is what i was trying to say, & yes both breeds may have excellent linage but then its all lost by crossing & not worth mentioning, as its now become mongrel.:confused1:


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

I have no problems with crossbreeds or mongrels but have 2 gripes- first being the breeding being done ethically and with a licence ect and secondly that crossbreeding is not doen just to make a new "designer breed" and charging megabucks for the pups which essentially are crossbreeds not some wonderful pedigree. OMG I feel like my record has stuck as I have said this on other threads.


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

JohnMorris said:


> I have no problems with crossbreeds or mongrels but have 2 gripes- first being the breeding being done ethically and with a licence ect and secondly that crossbreeding is not doen just to make a new "designer breed" and charging megabucks for the pups which essentially are crossbreeds not some wonderful pedigree. OMG I feel like my record has stuck as I have said this on other threads.


True,we should just copy and paste!


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## Bijou (Aug 26, 2009)

> 'More health problems are reported from pedigrees as it is hoped something can be done to prevent problems getting to big with specialised breeding programmes.'
> Explain what can be done, and how?


'specialised breeding programmes' might include ensuring that carriers are *only* mated to clear dogs or breeding away from a breed specififc problem in order to eradicate it from the breed.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

holly1 said:


> Years ago,they were mongrels.So they should still be now.Whats changed?


nothing! just the mongrels in the past did not come with a massive price tag on its head! They were normally free!
Nothing wrong with mongrels - ti's the deliberate crossing of two dogs in order to give it some fancey designer name and wallap a thoundand pound price tag on it that gets my back up!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

The thing I find most disturbing about the pictures posted by shetlandlover of the crosses is the configuration of some of the dogs. Like the way the sharpei cross is sitting and the hooded eyes. Of the jaw and bite of the peke cross. The way the lights reflecting in the husky pugs eyes looks like there could be degerative eye conditions. Thats only the possible problems you can see.


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

I have the same difficulty with poorly bred dogs as everyone else - however I just don't rag on the crossbreds that are poorly bred - but also the purebreds that are poorly bred. I find going at one or the other individually dishonest. It is very easy to find photos of awful looking and poorly conformed purebred dogs just as it is easy to find photos of awful looking crosses. It just proves both type can be bred poorly. Don't we already know that?



shetlandlover said:


> Why? I understand that its because mongrel's are unknown breeds but like I keep saying in the 90's and before the 90's a cockapoo would be called a mongrel.


The facts should not be distorted here. Portmanteau names began LONG before the 90s.

My aunt had a Cockapoo in the 60s, and a string of others after that as she likes the mix (as do I). My mom had a Terripoo in the 70s (and again that is what we referred to her as when asked what she was). Our neighbor had a Pom x Sheltie that he had some kind of a handle for as well.

Here is a "Papalier" from 1964, named as such by a writer of dog books:










The American Canine Hybrid Club was established in 1969. Fancy names for crossbreeds is not a recent phenomena.



shetlandlover said:


> Why would someone breed cavapoo's may I ask? Surely if you like cavaliers just get a cavalier. If you like poodles just get a poodle?
> 
> Or am I missing something? (Not having a go, just trying to understand).


I believe you are missing a few things, but to get them you'd have to try to imagine the perspective/wants/desires of the people who like these mixes.

I happen to be one that likes the Cockapoo mixes I have known through the last 30 years better than the Poodles (or the Bichons). There are many reasons, the main one for me being that I despise the look and feel of a really curly coat, while I don't mind a wavy one, but there are other reasons as well. I'll let someone else expand on their reasons because it will be a battle, as, it seems, we are all supposed to 'like best' what has been approved on an already designated 'list' of breeds.

As a person who was taught to pride herself on thinking for herself, questionning the status quo, and not just following other's paths, and who has passed the pride of that onto her children because I believe in the importance of it, it is hard for me to fathom the thinking of those that believe there is only one way for all.

CC


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## comfortcreature (Oct 11, 2008)

Ooops.

Cc


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

holly1 said:


> Good god.What eye sores some of those dogs are.The names are ridiculous too.


Never a truer word. The last one the Weimerthingy looks quite cute but the prices for these digs and the silly names get my goat and the fact they cost SO dam much.


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## sue100 (Jan 20, 2010)

we got our poodle for a good price but the people we got her from were offered alot more from breeders who wanted to cross breed her to make money from her,thank god her old owners were looking for a good home and not after money.

i love cross breeds and have always had healthy dogs(im sure ive been lucky)i had a look on the internet to see how much another poodle would cost and found a year old female for just £150. of course she was sold very quickly. yet poodle crosses cost anything from £300-£800.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

holly1 said:


> Years ago,they were mongrels.So they should still be now.Whats changed?


Puppy buyers with very deep pockets and no common sense.

Some of it anecdotal (but some scholarly as well) to suggest that, in particular, some larger crosses are suffering from more joint related conditions than their pedigree counterparts.

If you have been around dogs for a while, you get to know that most tests start because of problems in a breed - many now running for many years - significantly reducing the incidence of problems.

In theory - a first generation cross could be healthier - in reality - as I said, there is small but increasing evidence to suggest to the contrary - the minute you get to a second generation cross - you now have matching genes for both breeds - aka more health tested needed.

Sadly, whether people believe it or not - the majority of deliberate cross breeders are not ethical - so any perceived benefit from crossing could be lost in the quality of the original breeding stock to start with.

You can't produce a 2nd generation cross without recreating the problems with both breeds - so where then? bring another dog into the mix and have an even less of any type mongrel - nothing wrong with mongrels - sadly just most of the people who breed them and the ludicrous price tags they put on them

If you want a cross breed - visit the rescues - there are hundreds of them


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

JohnMorris said:


> I have no problems with crossbreeds or mongrels but have 2 gripes- first being the breeding being done ethically and with a licence ect and secondly that crossbreeding is not doen just to make a new "designer breed" and charging megabucks for the pups which essentially are crossbreeds not some wonderful pedigree. OMG I feel like my record has stuck as I have said this on other threads.


Why would you want them to have a license? as the law stands - someone has to breed over 5 litters a year to get a license - why on earth would anyone breed 5 litters of crossbreeds (or more) a year? The chances are most won't work them or use them for anything specific - so there is just one other reason 

(There are a few regional exceptions where councils have adaptations of the current laws)

In Wales - chances are some hobby breeders (i.e. a litter a year or less) will be history soon if the new regulations come in


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

People just don't think before breeding most these crosses. Just health problems waiting to happen breeding dogs with such different structure.. Wouldn't be suprised if people crossed a chi and great dane  I do think breeds with major health problems would benefit with crossing to breed the problems out under very strict rules but even then people would jump on the moneymaking bandwagon.

I used to get get people who are like 'omg look at those poodles! we have a 'whateveroodle' expecting me to get into conversation about how our dogs are related or whatever. Now I think they can sense I'm not interested


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I do think breeds with major health problems would benefit with crossing to breed the problems out under very strict rules but even then people would jump on the moneymaking bandwagon.


IF - and it is a very big IF there was an agreement to bring in dogs to the gene pool using schemes such as the one Rocco talked about during the war for Labs (and I know I have mentioned somewhere - far too many of these threads going on atm!) -

Just as outcrossing within a breed is best done on type - IF people were serious about crossing because it is the right thing to do - then they would crossbreed to type as well - not create a litter of pups with no knowlege of what they might look like, what size they might be, what their working ability might be like, what their temperament is like, prospective health problems etc etc

I am seldom convinced about cross-breeds and not sure I will ever change - but - for the right reasons under the right controls using type to type dogs in the relatively small number of breeds which really do have problems (and even then I am not convinced - but as an idea it probably has the most merit - but as you say - some would still manage to jump on the bandwagon.


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## dimkaz (Jul 27, 2009)

swarthy said:


> IF people were serious about crossing because it is the right thing to do - then they would crossbreed to type as well - not create a litter of pups with no knowlege of what they might look like, what size they might be, what their working ability might be like, what their temperament is like, prospective health problems etc etc
> 
> I am seldom convinced about cross-breeds and not sure I will ever change - but - for the right reasons under the right controls using type to type dogs in the relatively small number of breeds which really do have problems (and even then I am not convinced - but as an idea it probably has the most merit - but as you say - some would still manage to jump on the bandwagon.


come see my babies...
and can introduce you to other breeders of working dogs crosses (down in Italy though)....
when talking about type


best
D


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

swarthy said:


> IF - and it is a very big IF there was an agreement to bring in dogs to the gene pool using schemes such as the one Rocco talked about during the war for Labs (and I know I have mentioned somewhere - far too many of these threads going on atm!) -
> 
> Just as outcrossing within a breed is best done on type - IF people were serious about crossing because it is the right thing to do - then they would crossbreed to type as well - not create a litter of pups with no knowlege of what they might look like, what size they might be, what their working ability might be like, what their temperament is like, prospective health problems etc etc
> 
> I am seldom convinced about cross-breeds and not sure I will ever change - but - for the right reasons under the right controls using type to type dogs in the relatively small number of breeds which really do have problems (and even then I am not convinced - but as an idea it probably has the most merit - but as you say - some would still manage to jump on the bandwagon.


I don't agree with crossbreeding atall unless it was something like this but only after years of thought and research into it. For some breeds it might be the only answer for some breeds but then alot of owners and breeders don't want to recognise the health problems.

Even if it was done for the right reasons the people who are into money making could just cause lots of problems then the whole thing would be a disaster..


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## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

we have a german shepweiler and a bull mastweiler....ok,i call them crosses really,most designer names are stupid anyway,i mean.....whats this cocker-poo thing about?

i think pedigree v cross breed is personal choice to be honest


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

CheekoAndCo said:


> I don't agree with crossbreeding atall unless it was something like this but only after years of thought and research into it. For some breeds it might be the only answer for some breeds but then alot of owners and breeders don't want to recognise the health problems.
> 
> Even if it was done for the right reasons the people who are into money making could just cause lots of problems then the whole thing would be a disaster..


I agree with you - I was just responding to your comments on the subject.

If you outcross within a breed - you generally outcross to type (or a proven sire who stamps his offspring) - or to bring in more drive for the work the breed was intended for etc etc - not because they might 'look nice'.

Everyone criticises showbreeders - the majority of whom go to great lengths in terms of health testing, retaining temperament and type etc - yet there are many people on here who accuse us of breeding for looks.

Yet - don't be fooled that people are cross-breeding 'to avoid poor genetics' - the majority are doing it because they might look nice, their name sounds clever and they will generate a fair bit of income 

I know where I would rather put my money every time.

============================

Someone said cross -v- pedigree is personal choice - I don't think anyone here is against cross breeds - it's pretty much the people rather than the dogs causing the problems


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

comfortcreature said:


> I have the same difficulty with poorly bred dogs as everyone else - however I just don't rag on the crossbreds that are poorly bred - but also the purebreds that are poorly bred. I find going at one or the other individually dishonest. It is very easy to find photos of awful looking and poorly conformed purebred dogs just as it is easy to find photos of awful looking crosses. It just proves both type can be bred poorly. Don't we already know that?
> 
> The facts should not be distorted here. Portmanteau names began LONG before the 90s.
> 
> ...


Such a balanced, informative and refreshing view point :thumbup:


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

surely there are enough breeds out there for everyone already? Theres about 350pedigree breeds!

WHY are they always crossed with poodles and WHY do people call these crosses 'hypoallergenic' when they are not??

Whats wrong with ............*shock* just a poodle?! :eek6:

I actually think some people are put off by the way they are cut, I like them quite natural, my partner refuses to have one as he thinks they look like the ones in piccis, maybe if they were shown more natural people would choose them ove across?

and the COST of a cross!? alaskan malamute x german shepherd £500??????? german shepherd cross golden reteriver £500??????? bred twice a year due to 'demand'  jack russell cross poodle £300-450, cavalier king charles cross poodles, £900!!! £900!!!! cavs are only £450-700! yet a cross is more!? goldies cross poodles £950! pugs cross beagles £850
staffy cross siberian husky £350

lord knows what temprements all of those will have 

you can get a pedigree for less than that, ALL of them sold aswell!

I tell you what these people have more money than sense.  :

people say they cant afford a pedigree, a money issues so go for a cross breed, there is a reason peds cost more due to health tests and being raised properly, do you think these cross breeders are doing all of that? Thats why they sell them cheap!

Id rather save for a year to be able to buy one than save myself a couple of quid which will prob go on vet fees.

We bought our dog, a 'designer' dog if you will, to me it was a cross and i always said so. a little thing it was, I wont go into things but i should never have got it, it had worms, fleas, ear mites, vet bills behaviouirst bills, if i had only researched and not got it because I didnt want to wait and from a back yard breeder (didnt find out until after) felt sorry for it (NEVER a reason to buy a pup/kitten) put money in that evil womens hands allowing her to carry on 

Things would have turned out a alot better. He died 

I think that breeders should be MADE to health test whether its a cross or not and vet check with 1st injection minimum and show proof of worming.
24/7 support aftersales, be able to give you full advice on the breed/breeds, provide puppy packs, all this as a minimum.

i wonder how many people would still breed after that??


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Most cross breed's are from un-health tested pretty average parents (by average I mean not show dogs/big show winners)


To be fair, pedigrees come from average parents too. They could be health tested and be fine though, and be what you call "average" I suppose. My friend has a pedigree bull dog, both her parents tested clear for all the stuff you test a bull dog for and all that malarky, but they don't show her parents. Don't know how far she traced the line back though.

Rupert only cost us £75...and £25 of that was towards the local dog home in his area.



comfortcreature said:


> I have the same difficulty with poorly bred dogs as everyone else - however I just don't rag on the crossbreds that are poorly bred - but also the purebreds that are poorly bred. I find going at one or the other individually dishonest. It is very easy to find photos of awful looking and poorly conformed purebred dogs just as it is easy to find photos of awful looking crosses. It just proves both type can be bred poorly. Don't we already know that?
> 
> The facts should not be distorted here. Portmanteau names began LONG before the 90s.
> 
> ...


Fantastic, really well balanced post.



Taylorbaby said:


> alaskan malamute x german shepherd £500??????? german shepherd cross golden reteriver £500??????? bred twice a year due to 'demand'  jack russell cross poodle £300-450, cavalier king charles cross poodles, £900!!! £900!!!! cavs are only £450-700! yet a cross is more!? goldies cross poodles £950! pugs cross beagles £850
> staffy cross siberian husky £350
> 
> lord knows what temprements all of those will have


You could say that about any of those breeds, pedigree or not if you really wanted.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

People always say about poodles 'stupid clips'. They don't realise there is a reason behind them. Poodles are one of the few dogs you can have in any style atall that you want. I wouldn't really recommend someone with a pet putting it into show clips anyway because it is so much hard work. Unless you want a really matted smelling dog they needs bathed ever week or their coats kept in oil. It's alot of hard work and not something the average pet owner could look after. Once Blu's days in the ring are finished the coat will be straight off.

But I don't see why people hate this cut so much.. Blu gets loads of attention when he goes out!


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

swarthy said:


> Why would you want them to have a license? as the law stands - someone has to breed over 5 litters a year to get a license - why on earth would anyone breed 5 litters of crossbreeds (or more) a year? The chances are most won't work them or use them for anything specific - so there is just one other reason
> 
> (There are a few regional exceptions where councils have adaptations of the current laws)
> 
> In Wales - chances are some hobby breeders (i.e. a litter a year or less) will be history soon if the new regulations come in


Because I think we need more control over breeding dogs and the Laws at present are not sufficient. I see breeders and visit their premises regularly with my job and it is my opinion that every breeder should have a licence right from the first litter as the control and restrictions would be more easily dealt with before puppy farms become (on an individual level not per se) an issue. With an annual licence (fee to be adjusted possibly) and inspection we would be more able to prevent issues of unethical breeding.

As for your comment about 5 litters, there are people and puppyfarms breeding more than 5 litters a year of crossbreeds as well as mongrels and pedigrees and these are a big problem so my answer above applies and explains.


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

CheekoAndCo said:


> People always say about poodles 'stupid clips'. They don't realise there is a reason behind them. Poodles are one of the few dogs you can have in any style atall that you want. I wouldn't really recommend someone with a pet putting it into show clips anyway because it is so much hard work. Unless you want a really matted smelling dog they needs bathed ever week or their coats kept in oil. It's alot of hard work and not something the average pet owner could look after. Once Blu's days in the ring are finished the coat will be straight off.
> 
> But I don't see why people hate this cut so much.. Blu gets loads of attention when he goes out!


I know the reasons for cutting a Poodle like that if it a working dog as that is where the cut originates from but while I think they look silly that is just my opinion and a i have previously said it is down to the individual owner. While I also don't like these stupidly named crosses because of the breeders making up the stupid names to add dollar signs to the price and personally would probably never own a crossbreed, it is a case of "supply and demand" and if people want to pay silly amounts for a non pedigree just because of the sily names then that is their choice too. All a matter of respect and freedom of choice really. My opinion is that as long as the breeder is ethical and the dogs are healthy that is all that matters I suppose.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Why? I understand that its because mongrel's are unknown breeds but like I keep saying in the 90's and before the 90's a cockapoo would be called a mongrel.
> In the 90's a family friend had a accident litter of labradoodle's but back then she just sold them for £20 each as mongrel's and the ones that didnt sell she gave away.
> 
> Why would someone breed cavapoo's may I ask? Surely if you like cavaliers just get a cavalier. If you like poodles just get a poodle?
> ...


 I am glad people crossbreed otherwise I would have missed out on my two whom we love to bits!!!

I had a Cavalier as a teenager- great dog sadly died at 10 with Cancer.

We were originally going to get a cocker spaniel but saw some pictures of both Cavapoos and Cockapoos. looked into it ( their personality traits- life style ect...) and decided they were the dogs for us.

We also love the scruffy looking dogs too! if we could have had one of those for £20 we would have got one ! and we spent ages down the rescue route before we got our 2nd dog.

Unfortunately we were turned down twice by rescues first because we wanted to take dog on holiday with us ( quiet dog friendly lodge in Yorkshire) then secondly because the stray cat we look after wasn't neutered.

We then researched via internet to centres all over UK and visits to Woodgreen Animal shelter but they either had dogs not suitable to be rehomed with another or a cat or the ones that were ok were snapped up before we got a chance to enquire.

I feel a lot of posters on here are quite rude and judgemental about us having crossbreeds. I would never insult owners of pedigrees. Why people on here think it's ok to class crossbreed owners as being dumb, not knowing they are not a KC breed, paying high prices, the designer names ect.... is out of order.

I am so glad that I have a Cockapoo forum to use as well as this one were we all support each other.

I am not stupid. I didn't choose mine for the stupid name and their parents were health tested.

If we could get our crosses for less money don't you think we would? if that's the price the breeders are charging what else can we do.

Oh and most of the rescues I looked at had more Pedigrees in them than crosses.

I have yet to find a Cockapoo or Cavapoo in a rescue!!


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> I am glad people crossbreed otherwise I would have missed out on my two whom we love to bits!!!


The problem with this sort of comment is that it could apply to any dog - crossbreed or purebreed. We all love the dogs we had. Even an owner who had a pup from an accidental litter would say 'I'm so glad the accidental mating happened otherwise I wouldn't have my dog'! It doesn't justify the accident, just as saying if people didn't crossbreed I wouldn't have my lovely dog.

I'm not against crossbreeding, nor am I for it. I do think there should be a genuine reason for crossbreeding but it often appears to be like the old 'pic and mix' at Woolies, although I suspect a lot are also a case of breeding with the nearest dog without any thought, which just happens to be a different breed.



> Why people on here think it's ok to class crossbreed owners as being dumb, not knowing they are not a KC breed, paying high prices, the designer names ect.... is out of order.


Whether it is out of order or not, is open to debate, but sadly it is true and this blindness seems to have nothing to do with intelligence either. I've know highly intelligent, professional people fall for all the misconceptions about crossbreeds and pay over the top prices for them.
It seems that when it comes to buying a pet, for many, all common sense goes out the window.


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I am glad people crossbreed otherwise I would have missed out on my two whom we love to bits!!!
> 
> I had a Cavalier as a teenager- great dog sadly died at 10 with Cancer.
> 
> ...


But it is supply and demand, if people pay the prices they will charge them!


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

JohnMorris said:


> Because I think we need more control over breeding dogs and the Laws at present are not sufficient. I see breeders and visit their premises regularly with my job and *it is my opinion that every breeder should have a licence right from the first litter as the control and restrictions would be more easily dealt with before puppy farms become (on an individual level not per se) an issue. With an annual licence (fee to be adjusted possibly) and inspection we would be more able to prevent issues of unethical breeding. *


I agree, if every breeder who has a litter was inspected and licensed I feel there would be a fewer problems. More people would have to consider the more serious aspects of breeding and not, as at the moment, just breed where and whenever they like as no-one questions them or even looks at the suitability of their premises for breeding.

If anyone is willing to advertise and accept the cash for puppies then why shouldn't they be licensed?


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> it is my opinion that every breeder should have a licence right from the first litter as the control and restrictions would be more easily dealt with before puppy farms become (on an individual level not per se) an issue. With an annual licence (fee to be adjusted possibly) and inspection we would be more able to prevent issues of unethical breeding.


In principle, I agree, and as a very occasional breeder wouldn't have a problem with it, but only IF it really did solve the problems. Sadly, I can't see that it will make any difference and it will be the honest good ones that pay while the irresponsible ones get off scot free.

Many, many puppies don't come from 'breeders' in the common sense, they come from people who have mated their bitch and dog, or used a mates dog. How will this be policed. Do you really think these people will apply for a licence?

And as for LA doing anything about it... have a look at this thread...

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/132610-rspca-fails-again.html


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

JohnMorris said:


> I know the reasons for cutting a Poodle like that if it a working dog as that is where the cut originates from but while I think they look silly that is just my opinion and a i have previously said it is down to the individual owner. While I also don't like these stupidly named crosses because of the breeders making up the stupid names to add dollar signs to the price and personally would probably never own a crossbreed, it is a case of "supply and demand" and if people want to pay silly amounts for a non pedigree just because of the sily names then that is their choice too. All a matter of respect and freedom of choice really. My opinion is that as long as the breeder is ethical and the dogs are healthy that is all that matters I suppose.


Personaly I think it's a really elegant cut aswell as continental and it's what makes poodles stand out in the ring. But to be honest at shows poodles are really just a grooming contest nothing much to do with the quality of the dog 



Cockerpoo lover said:


> I have yet to find a Cockapoo or Cavapoo in a rescue!!


Not going to call it by it's stupid name but I've saw loads of these crosses and others on dogs trust website and also my friend who works for the SSPCA gets alot of them in too.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I have yet to find a Cockapoo or Cavapoo in a rescue!!


....and you never will, on the other hand you may well see a cocker cross poodle or cav cross poodle in a rescue!


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

It could quite easily be policed to a certain extent by the fact that no pups could be advertised for sale if the breeder was not licensed.

I am sure there will be many good breeders licensed and some will slip the net but it is the same with any law.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> To be fair, pedigrees come from average parents too. They could be health tested and be fine though, and be what you call "average" I suppose. My friend has a pedigree bull dog, both her parents tested clear for all the stuff you test a bull dog for and all that malarky, but they don't show her parents. Don't know how far she traced the line back though.


What I mean is that at least with a pedigree dog you get a linage too. Usually the breeder is proud of this linage, and if the linage is good then good champ's will be in that line.

Most breeders that breed pedigree to another pedigree is usually a full breed but is either DL registered, not registered, kc reg but from pet lines or bought from cheap adverts on the internet.

You know I love roo. But roo isnt sold as a stupid designer dog.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> It could quite easily be policed to a certain extent by the fact that no pups could be advertised for sale if the breeder was not licensed


I do think the internet has done a lot of damage to dog breeding - now anyone can have a litter, put an ad up and make a bit of money, however, I still doubt it will make much difference.

We have had a Law against the breeding of certain banned breeds including the pit bull since 1992. It hasn't stopped them from breeding and it hasn't stopped them from even advertising. And that is a dog that is deemed dangerous and banned by law (not getting into the arguement of rights and wrongs, just the fact that it is banned), so what chance does any legislation regarding the breeding of dogs have?


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> It could quite easily be policed to a certain extent by the fact that no pups could be advertised for sale if the breeder was not licensed.
> 
> I am sure there will be many good breeders licensed and some will slip the net but it is the same with any law.


Halleluiah someone on my wavelength! Oh and Rocco too. Thanks for the pm. Do you wnat to come and work with me the pair of you?


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> You know I love roo. But roo isnt sold as a stupid designer dog.


Hahahah that's where you are wrong, as from now on I've decided I am going to give him a stupid, designer dog name.

From now on he will be know as a Jestie... Same for Heidi too...!!! :thumbup:


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I am not stupid. I didn't choose mine for the stupid name


So why do you call them cavapoo and cockapoo?



Cockerpoo lover said:


> I have yet to find a Cockapoo or Cavapoo in a rescue!!


See you call them that name yourself. They are a cavalier cross poodle and a cocker spaniel cross poodle.
You wont see those designer names in rescues because in rescues they are what they are...cross breeds.

Scorchers a cross breed GSD with we think a sheltie so should I call her a Sheltie Shepherd or a German Sheepdog?

Its just silly.....

I get you like the breed BUT you wont get the same personality or temperment for two reasons:
1) because even with pedigree's each is different, yes they may have traits of their parents.
2) each cockapoo is bred by different cockerpoo's or cockerspaniel's and poodles and most(not all) of these breeders are only there for the money and dont care if they breed from sound dogs.

At least with breeders like that in pedigree dogs everyone in breed clubs and at meetings know who they are. But with cockapoo's everyones jumping on the boat.

Its like jackapoo's....wtf?

You either like poodles or jackrussels, if thats the case....get one, dont get a cross between the two because you dont know what thats going to be like.

I just dont see why giivng these silly breeders £700 a dog when they are doing it for money and the GOOD breeders of pedigree dogs who work their bums off at shows, agility, health test, ensure the stud is a good stud with a good line and breed at the right age for the bitch (not 12month old) struggle because breeders like that exsist.

I know of a breeder (poodle) who struggled to sell her pups because everyone who applied to get one wanted to breed with their other dog such as, cavalier, cocker spaniel, jack russle and even a pug.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Sheltie Shepherd or a German Sheepdog?


How about a Sheltie German Sheepdog :thumbup:


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

JohnMorris said:


> But it is supply and demand, if people pay the prices they will charge them!


Yes and it's the same for pedigrees too! but that never gets mentioned just have the usual dig at us crossbreed owners.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> Personaly I think it's a really elegant cut aswell as continental and it's what makes poodles stand out in the ring. But to be honest at shows poodles are really just a grooming contest nothing much to do with the quality of the dog
> 
> Not going to call it by it's stupid name but I've saw loads of these crosses and others on dogs trust website and also my friend who works for the SSPCA gets alot of them in too.


I have never found any of the dogs trust website when I looked.

Perhaps you can put a link in as I know someone who wants to take on a rescue cockapoo and I could pass on the info for her.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> Yes and it's the same for pedigrees too! but that never gets mentioned just have the usual dig at us crossbreed owners.


I dont get that statement.

Okay take my breed for example...I got alaska for £650 she is from health tested parents, show parents (her dad has won at crufts and her grandfather won at crufts and her mother gained her JW) alaska came to us eye tested at 6 weeks old.

I once emailed a cockapoo breeder and asked what I would get for my money he said his dogs where not health tested as they didnt need to be because the breed wasnt reccognised and that the puppies would come with food...thats it and the grand cost...£700, I asked why that price for them and he said "Because the kennel club will recognise them soon".

The kennel club asured me they wont be making the list anytime soon.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

rocco33 said:


> The problem with this sort of comment is that it could apply to any dog - crossbreed or purebreed. We all love the dogs we had. Even an owner who had a pup from an accidental litter would say 'I'm so glad the accidental mating happened otherwise I wouldn't have my dog'! It doesn't justify the accident, just as saying if people didn't crossbreed I wouldn't have my lovely dog.
> 
> I'm not against crossbreeding, nor am I for it. I do think there should be a genuine reason for crossbreeding but it often appears to be like the old 'pic and mix' at Woolies, although I suspect a lot are also a case of breeding with the nearest dog without any thought, which just happens to be a different breed.
> 
> ...


Same goes for Pedigrees that are badly bred and people fall for the KC registered bit in the advert.

People also pay over the top prices for pedigrees too!

Tell me how many pedigrees would there be without crossbreeding?


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> I dont get that statement.
> 
> Okay take my breed for example...I got alaska for £650 she is from health tested parents, show parents (her dad has won at crufts and her grandfather won at crufts and her mother gained her JW) alaska came to us eye tested at 6 weeks old.
> 
> ...


 we can all quote good and bad examples of breeders from both pedigree and crossbreed breeders!

Only recently there was the KC breeder in the papers with those poor dogs


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> surely there are enough breeds out there for everyone already? Theres about 350pedigree breeds!
> 
> WHY are they always crossed with poodles and WHY do people call these crosses 'hypoallergenic' when they are not??
> 
> ...


How rude and judgemental and quite frankly stupid are you!!!

My dogs were from health tested parents, wormed , de flead, 1st injections with records , pedigree info of parents, food supply, puppy pack. Advice given and ongoing and all sold!!!!!

Do not target all crossbreed owners in this way.

Why shouldn't my poodle crosses be the same as a pedigree the costs are the
same and BOTH parents are full PEDIGREES!!!!

I know a lot of cockapoo owners whose breeders are just as you describe the pedigree ones.

People like you make me sick.


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> Same goes for Pedigrees that are badly bred and people fall for the KC registered bit in the advert.


I know - and I deplore irresponsible breeding of pedigrees too.



> Tell me how many pedigrees would there be without crossbreeding?


I think there's a bit of a misconception about how pedigrees came about. It wasn't a case of choosing a bit of this and a bit of that in the same way the current fashionable crossbreeding is. Yes, they were crossed at some stage, but they tended to start from similar kinds of dogs that had evolved in the area and were suitable for purpose. They were outcrossed in order to bring in certain traits, but it wasn't a case of taking two different breeds and deciding a mix of this and that would be nice.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I have never found any of the dogs trust website when I looked.
> 
> Perhaps you can put a link in as I know someone who wants to take on a rescue cockapoo and I could pass on the info for her.


There is only a lab x poodle on dogs trust just now. I think it's in Wales possibly. If you go on their website and search poodle (all breeds) it shows you any they have.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> ....and you never will, on the other hand you may well see a cocker cross poodle or cav cross poodle in a rescue!


I don't like the names either but at least it is a way of people knowing the mix.

Most people know what a cockapoo is!

oh an no I have never seen any cocker x poodles or cav x poodles but have seen cockers and Cavs in rescues.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I don't like the names either but at least it is a way of people knowing the mix.
> 
> Most people know what a cockapoo is!
> 
> oh an no I have never seen any cocker x poodles or cav x poodles but have seen cockers and Cavs in rescues.


Most people know what that word means but everyone would know what a poodle x cav is.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> There is only a lab x poodle on dogs trust just now. I think it's in Wales possibly. If you go on their website and search poodle (all breeds) it shows you any they have.


That's a labradoodle not a cockapoo.

I thought you said there was LOTS of poodle crosses on there?


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2010)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> That's a labradoodle not a cockapoo.
> 
> I thought you said there was LOTS of poodle crosses on there?


Why are you coming into my thread having digs at me?

Is it because I am being responsible and health testing my dogs? And not cross breeding?

Just because there are loads of your "breed" out there doesnt mean there are loads of mine.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> That's a labradoodle not a cockapoo.
> 
> I thought you said there was LOTS of poodle crosses on there?


It's still a poodle cross.

Anyway it's a rescue not a breeding kennel like most the places that supply these crosses so they don't have a supply of dogs coming in to suit what the public want. They go so quickly it's just your luck if you get it. What's on the website isn't always what they have in the rescues.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Why are you coming into my thread having digs at me?
> 
> Is it because I am being responsible and health testing my dogs? And not cross breeding?
> 
> Just because there are loads of your "breed" out there doesnt mean there are loads of mine.


I am entitled to go on any thread you don't own the forum!!!

Again you are slating crossbreed breeders.

My breeder is responsible and health tests her dogs.

and there are not LOADS of my "breed".


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I am entitled to go on any thread you don't own the forum!!!
> 
> Again you are slating crossbreed breeders.
> 
> ...


No crossbreeder is responsible to me no matter how many health tests they do. They are just producing dogs with no realy goal.

I'd actually say poodle x's are more popular than poodles. I see atleast one most times when I go out so they is loads around.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

So what's your breeders goal of producing your poodles then?

to show them?

Most of us in the UK want dogs just as pets!! I agree with working dogs and if people want to show them that's fine. We take ours to fun dogs shows in fact my Cavapoo won hers in the summer for Prettiest bitch and then overall dog show winner and it all went to support the dog rescue which is the main reason for us going.

Why are you so against ethical crossbreeders?

or is it because you own poodles and hate to see them crossed with another breed?


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> I don't like the names either


Says her with the username!


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

Milo is a jack russell cross with sausage dog....Breed name please!

At the end of the day, we have these dogs as pets...nothing else, hence the forum name 'Pet forum'. Paper work aint worth Jack.
If you want to breed or show,join another fourm.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

holly1 said:


> If you want to breed or show,join another fourm.


ohh ay..how very rude, what makes you think pet dogs are better than dogs used in breeding programmes and that are shown? Do you forget that these dogs are pets BEFORE anything else!  Also have you noticed in the breeding section that most pet breeders need advice when having their litters and would have mega problems if it wasnt for the established breeders who spend hours giving advice?


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Says her with the username!


Well it's easy for me to remember & getting old and forgetful now!!!

I don't actually like the name and in most cases when people ask we usually say spaniel x with poodle or cav x with poodle. Though we have had people come up and say " Is that a cockapoo?"

It's just a way to describe them like any other dog, I just hate the way people on this forum are so quick to judge us in a negative way.

I would never say to another dog owner you got your dog because of it's name, your thick to think it's a breed, bet your breed was BYB ect... yet on here so many assumptions are made.

Yes it does go on but not with everyone who owns crosses.

and as for silly names I think Chines Crested Powder Puff is worse:lol:


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> Says her with the username!


Well it's easy for me to remember & getting old and forgetful now!!!

I don't actually like the name and in most cases when people ask we usually say spaniel x with poodle or cav x with poodle. Though we have had people come up and say " Is that a cockapoo?"

It's just a way to describe them like any other dog, I just hate the way people on this forum are so quick to judge us in a negative way.

I would never say to another dog owner you got your dog because of it's name, your thick to think it's a breed, bet your breed was BYB ect... yet on here so many assumptions are made.

Yes it does go on but not with everyone who owns crosses.

and as for silly names I think Chinese Crested Powder Puff is worse:lol:


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> So what's your breeders goal of producing your poodles then?
> 
> to show them?
> 
> ...


For me it will be to produce poodles that would beable to work if need be. My dogs will always take part in agility, obedience, showing, flyball and I will try them at working trials once their showing is over. I don't believe in dogs just doing nothing. They are working animals and I think they need activites and work to keep them ocupied. Hence why hardly anyone would get near my dogs at stud because I know the pups wouldn't be used for anything like this.

I take mine to fun and companion shows aswell and do well. Yes it's good if it supports a good cause but I do mainly go for a day out with my boys and to see my usual friends from shows.

I just don't believe in crossbreeding.

You will actually find poodles are my life and I hate seeing them being turned into these mongrels. I want to improve the *breed* and turn them back into working dogs like they used to be. I'm not saying what I honestly think about them because I'm not risking being banned over it. Nothing will ever make me own one of these types of dogs.


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## Devil-Dogz (Oct 4, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> and as for silly names I think Chinese Crested Powder Puff is worse:lol:


well thats a shame, because their an established breed and have been for many many years. Its not just a stupied name made up by people to given to cross breeds. :scared:


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> ohh ay..how very rude, what makes you think pet dogs are better than dogs used in breeding programmes and that are shown? Do you forget that these dogs are pets BEFORE anything else!  Also have you noticed in the breeding section that most pet breeders need advice when having their litters and would have mega problems if it wasnt for the established breeders who spend hours giving advice?


And who wants to bet that most of these pets come from show lines in the first place even if it is generations back!

It's sad people seem to think show dogs aren't pets first.. Mine are allowed on all the furniture etc and I bet some pets aren't even allowed that!

When I bred my hamsters I actually researched first so that meant I wasn't needing help when it was too late. Maybe if people done this before 'lets mate our bitch to the dog down the road' there would be much less problems.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

Devil-Dogz said:


> well thats a shame, because their an established breed and have been for many many years. Its not just a stupied name made up by people to given to cross breeds. :scared:


Yes my neighbour had one, sadly not with us anymore.

She loves both my oodles and we do laugh at the names as we did with hers!

I think the name is given as a way to identify a cross and is just a bit of fun.

Nothing to get worked up over like some do on here!!


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## HannahKate (Jun 6, 2010)

I agree Cockerpoo lover. I can't see the reason to get worked up at all. I think most people can work out what these crosses are. Tbh sprollie just slips off the tongue easier than springer spaniel x border collie. I am under no illusions that my dog is anything other than a mutt but why shouldn't i cann her a sprollie if i wish. What she really is is an accident that happened when a rather posh breeding bitch springer escaped and met the very well bred working collie next door. Cost us about £120 I think and was the perfect compromise since half of us wanted a springer and the other half a collie  

Apart from that, what do you think of lurchers. They are crossbreeds but have been cross bred for specific reasons. Obviously a lot are pets not working dogs though but thats the same with pedigree wirking type dogs. I will be getting one as a graduation present as I have wanted one for about the last 10 years, preferably one that looks like a deerhound but small greyhound sized


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

CheekoAndCo said:


> For me it will be to produce poodles that would beable to work if need be. My dogs will always take part in agility, obedience, showing, flyball and I will try them at working trials once their showing is over. I don't believe in dogs just doing nothing. They are working animals and I think they need activites and work to keep them ocupied. Hence why hardly anyone would get near my dogs at stud because I know the pups wouldn't be used for anything like this.
> 
> I take mine to fun and companion shows aswell and do well. Yes it's good if it supports a good cause but I do mainly go for a day out with my boys and to see my usual friends from shows.
> 
> ...


You are entitled to you opinion as am I but I do feel people on here are very rude about crossbreeds when it isn't necessary.

I love poodles too just because mine are crosses doesn't mean I'm against owning a pure breed. 
If I had the room we would love a Standard and we often see out when walking this old lady and her old girl who is a 12 yr old mini poodle and stop and chat. She and her belated husband have owned minis all their life and sadly this will be her last one. She was lovely to talk to and even got me in touch with her groomer. She wasn't judgemental or rude and it's a shame it can't be like this on here.

On the cockapoo forum I go on there are several who do agility and a lady who has them in Australia has two that have just been accepted as dogs used to help bring comfort to the sick in hospital and visiting the elderly.

I am considering agility with mine probably next year.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> You are entitled to you opinion as am I but I do feel people on here are very rude about crossbreeds when it isn't necessary.
> 
> I love poodles too just because mine are crosses doesn't mean I'm against owning a pure breed.
> If I had the room we would love a Standard and we often see out when walking this old lady and her old girl who is a 12 yr old mini poodle and stop and chat. She and her belated husband have owned minis all their life and sadly this will be her last one. She was lovely to talk to and even got me in touch with her groomer. She wasn't judgemental or rude and it's a shame it can't be like this on here.
> ...


Well to me you can't love a breed and own the cross of it. I wouldn't go selling a pup of mine to someone who owned a poodle cross. Rescue or not would be a no.

Blu doesn't even bother with poodle crosses. People with them seem to think he would want to play with them etc but he's a snob and only really likes his own breed :thumbup:

He is my first agility dog and will definatly do great at it once he stops acting deaf when he decides to want to jumps rather than contacts.


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

rocco33 said:


> I know - and I deplore irresponsible breeding of pedigrees too.
> 
> Any unethical breeding is deplorable.
> 
> I think there's a bit of a misconception about how pedigrees came about. It wasn't a case of choosing a bit of this and a bit of that in the same way the current fashionable crossbreeding is. Yes, they were crossed at some stage, but they tended to start from similar kinds of dogs that had evolved in the area and were suitable for purpose. They were outcrossed in order to bring in certain traits, but it wasn't a case of taking two different breeds and deciding a mix of this and that would be nice.


Fundamentally all pedigrees became them by being mongrels and I think it is just us as humans that have called them pedigrees.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Wow, what a huge range of views in the last couple of pages.

Cockerpoo Lover, I think you maybe need to take a step back, and look at the broader view, as much as there are puppy farmers of pedigree breeds, you have to agree, there are those that will breed fashionable cross breeds and, in part, rely on the name as a marketing tool. It's been the case with chocolate Labradors with a number of years, chocolate sounds so much nicer than black, or yellow. 

Now whilst you may have found a breeder that health tests and only breeds in an ethical way, the vast, vast majority of thsoe who buy 'cockerpoos' or other such similar cross breeds, will do so from people looking to make cash, pure and simple. Surely that isn't right? 

John Morris, can I just ask how much you've studied about how pedigree types came about? Obviously with your line of work, I'd imagine a fair bit of research?


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2010)

Cockapoo lover - What health tests did the parents have? Were they KC reg if so you can look on the kennel club page for the results to the health tests they had.

Would love to see or even hear about them.

I have to agree with what most of the people on here have said. Cockapoo is more like a name of a pedigree not cocker spaniel cross poodle which sounds like...well what it is...a cross. 

Its pretty much a new thing since labradoodle came about...cross breed exsisted before then but they didnt have all these strange names with the £££££ price tag on them.


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## Cay (Jun 22, 2009)

There isn't really the variation between price and quality in crossbreeds as there is with pedigrees. For instance a well bred cocker from health tested parents is £700 but a badly bred unregistered one would be £350. A badly bred cocker cross poodle would be £700 and a well bred one from health tested parents would also be £700.

It's easy to see why some people choose to breed crossbreeds when they can put a cocker worth £350 to a poodle worth £350 and charge £700 for the pups, if those dogs were put to their own breed the pups would be worth £350 :001_unsure:.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Cockerpoo lover said:


> How rude and judgemental and quite frankly stupid are you!!!
> 
> My dogs were from health tested parents, wormed , de flead, 1st injections with records , pedigree info of parents, food supply, puppy pack. Advice given and ongoing and all sold!!!!!
> 
> ...


Bit over the top isnt it considering i havent read any of your posts and have no idea who you are? 

if you actually read it i said that as long as they are health testsed and they do the same as good ped breeders then thats OK, due to my past expereince, so i was infact agreeing with you 

you sound extremly nasty and bitter, to have a go at people over forums that you have never met or even spoke to before, i feel extremly sorry for you


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

there was a quiz on the link below about designer breeds but its down atm. Ill leave it on incase it goes back up.
It gives you images of both designer crosses and mongrels and crosses in rescues and asks you to guess which, not easy as they look the same. Goes to show people are forking out hundreds when theire must have "designer cross" may be sitting in a rescue close by

The Designer Dog breed quiz--can you tell which is which?

cookapoos etc ARE NOT BREEDS. To be a breed they must be true to a breed type and these crosses and their offspring are extremely variable.

Apparently Guide Dogs Victoria (Australia) attempted a poodle x labrador programme in the 1970s as allergen free dogs were needed, but the programme was abondoned because the offspring did not make consistent and predictable guide dogs. The present labradoodle craze was in fact started by Aussie puppy farmers for profit, many of you will have seen the state of some of these puppy farmers dogs and conditions.

Another worrying thing is the lie that crosses are healthier than pedigrees, what crap. In order for these crosses to have the so called "hybrid vigour" they would have to be bred from dogs with the right genetic material to start with. Any decent breeder wont sell their dogs to a breeder intending to cross them, so substandard dogs are often used instead. By doing so you increase the chance of these dogs being unsound and having a combination of the health problems within both breeds.

If people dont lie about their dogs, dont sell them for outrageous prices and health test then i have less of an issue. 
However i still have a problem with breeding dogs for the sake of breeding them. I have only ever bred to keep a pup from my line for the showring and if i breed again it will be for the same reason, there is no other for me.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Cay said:


> There isn't really the variation between price and quality in crossbreeds as there is with pedigrees. For instance a well bred cocker from health tested parents is £700 but a badly bred unregistered one would be £350. A badly bred cocker cross poodle would be £700 and a well bred one from health tested parents would also be £700.
> 
> It's easy to see why some people choose to breed crossbreeds when they can put a cocker worth £350 to a poodle worth £350 and charge £700 for the pups, if those dogs were put to their own breed the pups would be worth £350 :001_unsure:.


good post! this is another concern many of these breeders will just be sticking dogs together dosent matter about their quality, they'll have no knowledge of conformation etc :confused1:

breeding animals just to feed the pet market is a greedy and selfish reason to bring new life into the world imo.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/36419-important-rule-regarding-crossbreeds.html

can I just remind you all of the above


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