# "Pin the dog 22 times a day."



## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

That is what Brad Pattison (At the end of my leash / In the dog house) recommended in an episode of his show for a fearful dog that reacted adversely to people and dogs. Brad, like in every case, traces back this to the dog trying to become alpha.

Will he ever meet a dog that isn't trying to take over the world?

He claims that by pinning the dog 22 times a day, you will establish yourself into the alpha position. And teach the dog... something? Helplessness is my guess.

Is this an approach you would recommend or practice?


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Yikes! He sounds worse than the other little man! No I certainly would not recommend that hideous suggestion though I dare say that there will be those who can't or won't see anything wrong with it. Just promise me one thing? Keep him in America please? We don't want him in the UK, we got enough problems of our own and are busy trying to stop dog training from sliding back into the dark ages. :sad:

I have never ever recommended alpha rolling or harsh methods you know?  I must have been a really cr*p dog training instructor and behaviourist all those years. Now I just watch and weep as I see these awful methods being unearthed and used again on our unsuspecting canine friends by those who don't (want to) know any better and are too lazy to try.


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

:mad2: Whatever just happened to training and socialsing your dog properly in the first place??

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## tiddlypup (Oct 4, 2008)

what if the person doing this "pinning" does it in an aggressive manner,gonna end up with a fearful dog or worse a fearful aggressive dog


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

Why isnt there trainers out there that advocate treating ur dog as one of the family this is what i teach my clients no harsh methods are used when correcting behaviour to gain desired results :thumbsup:


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I saw this programme once and would never watch it again.
The episode I saw there was a Great Dane who took food left lying about so the 'trainer'  put food with in the dogs reach then shouted and sreamed at the dog until it was terrified. All in the name of asserting his 'donimence'


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

Fleur said:


> I saw this programme once and would never watch it again.
> The episode I saw there was a Great Dane who took food left lying about so the 'trainer'  put food with in the dogs reach then shouted and sreamed at the dog until it was terrified. All in the name of asserting his 'donimence'


Pathetic aint it


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## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

Corinthian said:


> That is what Brad Pattison (At the end of my leash / In the dog house) recommended in an episode of his show for a fearful dog that reacted adversely to people and dogs. Brad, like in every case, traces back this to the dog trying to become alpha.
> 
> Will he ever meet a dog that isn't trying to take over the world?
> 
> ...


Well it will definitely teach the dog something... the dog will learn that it was/is right to be fearful, and in order to avoid this human threat, it should bite!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

IMO, Vlad Pattison is an utter eejit, and rude in the extreme to the humans, too.

i think of him as Vlad the Tormentor... he would make a terrific comic-book villain. 
_*the unfortunate thing is that the dude is not a paper character... 
poor dogs! and poor PEOPLE, too - beastly, -imo-. *

the picture i see when i hear PIN or PINNING... 
when i read or hear the phrase, * pin the dog *, i always have an image of that old-fashioned thing... 
where someone AWARDS U a pin, or a friend, relative, boss, ____ , pins one *on U*. 
i would be HORRIFIED to see a dog with 22 small decorative pins studding them... 
but OTOH, i would be happy to volunteer to = PIN = Vlad... :laugh: 
*where would U like this one, Vlad?... how about here?* *ouch... no, maybe here... (slips it out)... yes, that looks better... Yowch!...* he-he-he-he..._


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## Plabebob (Nov 30, 2009)

Wow some people are just completely horrible. No matter what training technique he favours can't he see that it's just cruel? Ugh. Maybe we should all write him a letter.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

I'm just wondering when anyone would get the time to pin a dog 22 times a day, especially as you might be waiting in A&E for four hours after the first attempt.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

re caroline -



> ... Now I just watch and weep as I see _*these awful methods being unearthed and used again*_ on our unsuspecting canine friends by those who don't (want to) know any better and are too lazy to try.


i AGREE, caroline! :thumbup1:

i have no idea what dank and gloomy dungeon, or fetid cesspool, or midnight hidden-grave was the source - 
but these rotting mummified ideas are IMO in desperate need of _*immediate Re-Burial, and THIS time, 
lets put a stake of holly thru the heart... just to be SURE... :thumbsup:

i would recommend a deep burial in a stable geo-zone, a la mid-level radioactive waste - 
a solid-stainless container, a larger concrete vessel, and pour concrete around the steel 
inner-container before capping and burying it. then make the area off-limits to the public, with monitoring to be sure nothing enters or escapes! 
its like some weird 1950s horror-movie, come back to life.. 
'Yaaaaa-a-a-a-ah... No, HELP... (falling shriek... silence)

less drama + more teaching = happy dogs + happier humans.
sane, safe, sound... :thumbup: i like it... 

lets EXORCISE dog-training and Ex-ER-Cise our brains, eh? LOL... 
--- terry

*_


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

This excuse for a trainer needs the snip methinks! I hope to DoG his dubious programmes are never shown in the UK. :thumbdown:


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

CarolineH said:


> This excuse for a trainer needs the snip methinks! I hope to DoG his dubious programmes are never shown in the UK. :thumbdown:


He is on one of the satalite chanels here in the UK sadly, that's how come I've seen one of the episodes.


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Fleur said:


> He is on one of the satalite chanels here in the UK sadly, that's how come I've seen one of the episodes.


Aw no!  That is bad news for UK dogs then. 

It seems that anyone who has the right contacts can become a tv dog trainer. They don't need to have any experience except their own opinions and certainly don't have to have any true empathy with animals.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Who/what is this Brad Pattison? Sounds like a right proper moron to me.


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## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

CarolineH said:


> Aw no!  That is bad news for UK dogs then.
> 
> It seems that anyone who has the right contacts can become a tv dog trainer. They don't need to have any experience except their own opinions and certainly don't have to have any true empathy with animals.


I've been critical of Millan but at least he seems to care about the welfare of the dogs.

Pattison otoh seems to be interested only in himself without regard to human or animal. He repeatedly puts dogs in danger. In one episode he flung the front doors open and then the external gate allowing dogs to run into a working road, in another case he nearly killed a little dog by using a walking harness to rappel him up a cliff - the dog fell in the river. He's taken dogs with no off leash control by the rushing river to make his point. He's destroyed property, vandalized walls and assaulted owners by throwing things at them.

He counsels driving your knees and walking into the dog to get them to respect you. He advocates what he calls 'facial corrections' which just means hitting the dog on the face. Hanging to get a dog to sit he claims teaches 'respect' and using reinforcement is a 'negotiation' and a 'bribe'

In one excellent example showing how lousy a trainer he is, he uses his dog. He says 'SIT' and the dog sits, he then says something like 'BANANA' and the dog sits. This was his demonstration of a "trained dog".

In reality this is a dog that has learned to sit to avoid being hanged and it shows ZERO stimulus control and no stimulus discrimination.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

he sets himself up as not only a dog-trainer, but a Life-Coach...  if U can believe it! 
then he verbally abuses the person / people, whilst dragging, flooding, choking, etc, the dog... 
_*including such sterling-silver examples of Total-Irresponsibility as to turn loose 
a JRT with a long-term HABIT of running away, in the owners *yard*... which just 
happens to border a completely trackless wilderness area of several 100k-square miles.* :yikes: 
*and on the other side of the yard... was the 2-lane road -  more mundane, no less deadly.*




* Vlad appearing as a recipient at the Anti-Genesis Awards: *
* 'may i have the jaw-dropping Stoopid Prize, please...' *
thank U so much, Vanna - and what a lovely gown, ... 
*'it gives me dubious pleasure to recognize the considerable IMPACT, Vlad, 
that U have had on our mutual nominal calling...'*

Click to expand...

*after all - Vlad has the POWER, doncha know - no mere dog would run-off on his watch! 
oh, yeah? 
H***, if >> I << was the dog, and Vlad was the handler... 
baby, i would be cutting-in the afterburners, and going supersonic...  
and i would NEVER come home to a human of MINE, who handed my leash to that creep! :yikes:

he is a 24-carat clad, solid sand-cast sterling @#$%*!, in my personal + professional opinion. 
grump grump grump... snarl...*_


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

yikesssss nice man....

i cuddle my dog about 22 times a day - would neve rpin her down - wtf would that achieve?


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

If I pinned any of mine down, they would wriggle and think I was playing!

Where brains are lacking, brute force & ignorance take over. :closedeyes:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

some vid-clips to help make sense (if that is possible) of Vlad -

BEFORE the show began filming - Interview - 
YouTube - NUTV: End of My Leash

notice that statement - 
* 1st dog-daycare in North AMerika* ?! *Who sez? :---O *

-------------------

YouTube - "CET" is a sham certification.

Pattison-CET is a sham certificate - 
overpriced, little hands-on, little documentation of practical experience 
(Certified Educator Trainer

------------------------------------

YouTube - Brad Pattison talks to Mark Stone of Kelowna.com 
interview AFTER he pulled-up stakes, and moved self + biz, 
from Calgary to Kelowna (under something of a cloud... )

pt 2 - Katrina + pets, (R)SPCA, 'small-town living', etc 
YouTube - Kelowna.com continues their interview with Brad Pattison of The End Of My Leash.

============================


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Yeah I was looking at those last night. Sadly these folks get themselves onto TV, usually through knowing the right people and the producers who all too often don't know one end of a dog from the other, welcome them and promote their methods by showing their programmes. Add to the mix those out there who are all too eager for quick, easy fixes and you have the next dog guru for some to faun over as though they are gods!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

hey, cory! :--) 
and anybody else who will be doing a LOT of heavy pinning... 
i have the Perfect Solution to that lower-back or possible carpal-tunnel, from all that pinning - 
*the RONCO Pin-That-Pooch BENCH! Get Urs!...

see my post on the K9-Konspiracy thread for details, and if U want to invest capital, 
contact me via PM, please - i want to get a working model up on an infomercial, ASAP - i think this will be the next Roto-Grill-type direct sales success! :thumbup: 
cheers, all, 
--- terry

*


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## Corinthian (Oct 13, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> some vid-clips to help make sense (if that is possible) of Vlad -
> 
> BEFORE the show began filming - Interview -
> YouTube - NUTV: End of My Leash
> ...


CET SHAM!! So true. I love it!


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Corinthian said:


> That is what Brad Pattison (At the end of my leash / In the dog house) recommended in an episode of his show for a fearful dog that reacted adversely to people and dogs. Brad, like in every case, traces back this to the dog trying to become alpha.
> 
> Will he ever meet a dog that isn't trying to take over the world?
> 
> ...


He sounds delightful doesn't he?

:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

What a plonker!  Why are these twits allowed on TV? :thumbdown:


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## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

And the really sad thing is that some people will take the advice to the letter and end up with bites, maulings or just petrified animals and they'll wonder what happened to the cute and characterful dogs they once had.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

re lemmsy -



> Why are these twits allowed on TV?


hey, lemmsy! :--)

because pet-owners are the market - and they watch DRAMA,  not peaceful. 
two-thirds of all USA households now have at least one pet - cats outnumber dogs, 
in popn of owned-pets -
76M, 430K as per Top Ten Countries With Most Pet Cat Population
but they tend to be multiples in one home... 
_*in the parlance, dogs have better market penetration, as they are often singles. there are 
an estimated 65M pet-dogs in the USA - this is not counting military, ferals, etc. *_

about TV-shows and mass appeal - 
how many ppl watched those ridiculous * un-real  reality * TV-shows, with temper-tantrums by adults, sulking, 
teasing, vindictive behavior, ganging-up on various individuals, etc? 
*if U were to scrap ALL of the emotional-BS, and made it entirely MERIT -  'can U do X?'... 
 and each person simply  earned the right to continue -  how many viewers would 
continue to tune-in faithfully? any guesstimates? 
people watch soap-operas for the same (dumb, IMO) reason - 
Drama, passion, terror, hatred, suspense... yada-yada... * 

personally, i would LOVE to see good dog-training on TV - _* especially good B-Mod!! :thumbup: which is a very, 
very potent tool - *_ but i imagine that most pet-owners would find it as exciting as watching grass grow, LOL... 

its the same in agility, ALL the pet-owners desperately want to get the dog on the obstacles, * Yesterday! *.... :lol: 
but good trainers know that the dog and handler need * good foundation behaviors on-cue first... :thumbsup:
THEN - * they are ready for the obstacles!, not before. :thumbup1: 
_*patience, Grasshopper -  we walk before we can run... 
cheers, 
--- terry

*_


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## Nicky09 (Feb 26, 2009)

What a psycho *goes to cuddle her dogs*. I never thought I would say this I would have CM train my dogs over him


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> personally, i would LOVE to see good dog-training on TV - _*especially good B-Mod!! :thumbup: which is a very, *_
> _*very potent tool - *_but i imagine that most pet-owners would find it as exciting as watching grass grow, LOL...


So would I but like you suggest, it would make rather boring viewing, especially to pet owners. Proper behaviour modification and training is done in a calm, quiet, laid back way. Most people who are good at it, being well known among dog training circles, do not push themselves forward for tv programmes etc. They are too busy getting on with helping people so sadly it is the fame hungry, less knowledgable ones who get themselves good agents and work out a good angle to come from, especially a fancy title to call themselves, who get themselves onto the TV. 

Anyway, I am getting confuddled now? Is 'pinning' something to do with putting nappies on a dog to save housetraining it? Better make those 'Pin that pooch!' benches height adjustable then so that we don't all strain our backs and sue the company!  <scarpers>


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> personally, i would LOVE to see good dog-training on TV - especially good B-Mod!! which is a very,
> very potent tool - but i imagine that most pet-owners would find it as exciting as watching grass grow, LOL...


Got it in one Tel!
That's why people aren't as interested in Victoria Stilwell's show as they are in the antediluvian methods that look scary and transformational all in one.... just like a magic show! Wow! rabbits (and well-behaved dogs) out of hats!


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

MerlinsMum said:


> Got it in one Tel!
> That's why people aren't as interested in Victoria Stilwell's show as they are in the antediluvian methods that look scary and transformational all in one.... just like a magic show! Wow! rabbits (and well-behaved dogs) out of hats!


Have you noticed that no professionals (trainers or behaviourists etc) have rushed to his defence? Ok so he does not need the backing of organisations like the American Humane Association , American College of Veterinary Behaviorists or American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior etc to practice as a TV dog wrestler but is he not ashamed at their condemnation of him??? Can the Cesarites not see him for what he is or do they honestly condone harsh, rough treatment of dogs just to get a result? I have dealt with some really difficult dogs in my time, heck I could write a book! But I never, ever, not once, employed those techniques just to get a dog to submit and look as though it was obeying me etc!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

re caroline -



> Better make those 'Pin that pooch!' benches height-adjustable
> then so that we don't all strain our backs and sue the company!


 oh, but they ARE, caroline!!  
* adjustable for height, options for fabric, color, its amazing... 
get one to play-off the color of the drapes in the living-room! *
_*its just so exciting, U have to go see the post about them on the k9-Konspiracy thread, 
these Pin-That-Pooch! benches  are just the coolest!... 
simply thrilled, (clasps hands + squeals...) Ooh!... :biggrin: :001_wub: :smilewinkgrin:
--- terry

*_


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Let's hope that Cesar and Vlad never decide to do a double act huh? Mind you, they may be interested in your PTP Benches! Now that would help launch your new venture big time! :thumbsup:


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

leashedForLife said:


> adjustable for height, options for fabric, color, its amazing...
> get one to play-off the color of the drapes in the living-room! ​


_"Oh dear. I just redecorated in shades of 17th century colours: Georgian duck-egg blue and washed green, and now the dog and the Doggibench (as marketed in the UK) being both shades of Terracotta and Tuscany Tilth, don't match. Soon as I can get a new dog that aesthetically blends, may I order a new one?

Can you advise on what shades to choose? My OH wants a blue Staffy with a red nose, but I think that would clash, and the red nose will only be appropriate at Christmas when he's pulling the reindeer cart on behalf of the Rotary Club. (My husband, that is - not the dog)." *Confused of Clapham Common.*_​


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

i am so sorry to have to tell U this, sue... 

but *leashed* is currently lying on the floor, spasmodically clutching  at a sore belly or aching ribs, 
whooping and laughing in the rudest fashion... i apologize, i do not think that decor is high in priority! 

for myself, i can see why U are confused - *pick a century, dear, and stick to it. * 
pigments, clothing, furnishings, habits... and dogs and breeds. * immersion * is always better than a surface gloss... 
of course, if U choose the Edwardian era, not all of the Xmas guests will want to play charades or drink mulled claret, 
but that is all right - next year, do not invite them! :thumbsup: problem solved...

and BTW - blue-dogs do not come with red-noses, sorry, it is that genetic thing, again. 
blue-dogs and red-dogs (Viszla, Tollers, Dogues, ...), are referred to as SELF-COLORED - with the exception 
of some white markings, the dog is shades of one color. the outer-surface of the ear may be darker than the body, 
there may be some dark agouti-type banding in the hair of the hackles across the shoulder-girdle, and so on... 
but basically, they are one color, of varying intensity, all over.

HTH, Ur ever-vigilant 
- Agony Auntie

PS - 
*leashed* is now in the bathroom, splashing water on a tear-marked face...  and still spluttering, now and then. :sad:
honestly, :nonod: how so much hilarity could come from a simple question of home-fashions, i do not know! its embarrassing...


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Can these 'Pin That Pooch' benches please come with adaptations to turn them into nappy changing platforms as I have now decided that it is no longer neccessary to housetrain future puppies? Thank you. :laugh:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

no probs, caroline! :--)

gotcha covered... any of the CRYPTON waterproofs are an excellent option, 
and a S/S pail that secures under the bench for used-nappies is another option - 
scented thin, durable liners, which tie-shut with elongated dog-ear flaps, 
are also available, with built-in odor-suppressors on the >-inside-< of the bags, 
and Ur choice of scents impregnated into the >--outside of the bag---< ...

 the perfume-options include:  
attar of roses, lavender, patchouli, cedar or wintergreen! 

we aim to please,  
--- terry


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