# Ruby to be spayed



## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I have had a long hard think about this girl , As as much as I wanted to give her a chance I just cannot do it ... Ruby is small for her breed and her weight is not gaining ... Everything about her is tiny... The more she call the more she is losing ... So after this call she is going to be spayed .. Am sad but I know am doing this for her and the breed


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Have you considered giving her a break from calling with Ovarid or accupressure mating? Is she otherwise of good quality, or a bit lacking there as well? Sorry cannot remember what breed / colour she is, or how old she is...


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Have you considered giving her a break from calling with Ovarid or accupressure mating? Is she otherwise of good quality, or a bit lacking there as well? Sorry cannot remember what breed / colour she is, or how old she is...


BSH tortie tabby colourpoint ... 9 months ... I would say average quality .. She does have faults .. Eyes and tail being the main two her tortie is not strong either ... I hate picking faults but I have to be honest ... Putting her next to my other girl most people would say she is a different breed mainly do to her size .. We have been down the accupressure route to no avail .. Filling her with drugs am not comfortable with ..


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

She is very young at 9 months to decide she will always be small - some cats mature very slowly. I can understand the hesitancy with Ovarid, but the dose to stop her calling is very small - much smaller than the vet says it is - and it will give you a chance to see how she develops over the next few months. Did you breed her? Just wondering if she comes from slow to grow lines.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Of course she has faults, all cats do  But if you feel she is only average and not worth breeding from then do spay her.

Otherwise even I (who hates the thought of pills or injections) would consider small doses of Ovarid or similar, if I couldn't do acupressure that is. 
The dose is very small, something like a 1/4 of what the vets usually say

Have also found all my girls had a growth spurt after their first litter, but were not in bad condition beforehand either.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

This is what I said yesterday. I had one the same last year who, while she had faults, had the backing to throw some very nice kittens which she did thanks to stonking bloodlines that I was familiar with, and an even more stonking sire who normally throws nice babies. She was small, yes, and she needed a C section (but I'm not sure if that was to do with her lines too as there's a question mark there which will be proved or otherwise when I breed her daughter), but all the way through she was just fine. She actually bulked up her weight during pregnancy, and not all of that was babies by any stretch. She remained in good condition throughout suckling 5 kittens, and was a wonderful mum who had some stunning babes.

Please don't let her size be the main reason for spaying. 3.2 KG for a 9 month old slow maturing breed is just fine, it really is.

I personally am not particularly comfy with using Ovarid in a maiden, but I wish I was as my little tortie is already calling hard at 8 and a half months and I'm not comfy to mate her yet, actually for the same reasons as you, and because I feel that at her age, she really is too young. However, I won't spay. I use Piriton which preserves their apetite and allows them to gain.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

half of me wants to give her a chance the other half is saying no, between the devil and the deep blue sea .. it will end my lilac line for the time being . safe than sorry .. oh my head hurts .. I could leave her for another few months but by this time she would have had 6 more calls on top of the 4 she has already had .

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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

I had this dilemma with my girl last year who at the time was also smallish for a BSH - she went on to have 3 very good sized boys - she has access to a secure outside area so didnt come back into call all winter and has now grown loads


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

I am not a cat breeder at all, but if she isn't a perfect example, you are worried about her size the world is over run with cats why the dilemma about having her spayed? There will be better girls to breed from surely ?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

oh its so hard I just wanted to do my very best for her .. it makes it harder with her litter mate being a big girl .. so am comparing .. my new stud will put super lines into her and put some bones on the kits ... I will put some pics up later. so you can all have a look..

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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't think a cat's weight is always a good indicator, especially for a 9 month old who has been calling a lot; even an averagely respectable sized British girl can drop a drastic amount of weight when calling but still, overall, be a respectable "size" for her breed.

That said, British *are* meant to be 'medium to large' in size and of a certain body conformation and not be fine boned. I've bred very successfully from slightly smaller than average BSH girls who were, nevertheless, of the correct type, body conformation and not fine boned... but I wouldn't be happy to breed from a girl who (putting everything else to one side such as general type, coat qualiity, eye colour, etc) was a bit 'twee' and fine boned.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

she does have lots to offer..ok her eye colour is not the best . ,she is tall and long which with her being slim makes her look smaller .. just need her wider. her coat is really good alto her tortie is not so strong at the min .. but sayin that my other girls it just came out no where.

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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

She's a CP and only 9 months old - I wouldn't expect her eye colour or tortie to be fully in yet. Minnii has the most wonderful eye colour now at 5 - wasn't brilliant at 9 months, and being a CP at 9 months she wasn't well developed either. She's a reasonable weight and long, I'd give her Ovarid and see. You are thinking of spaying her anyway, so it's not going to make that much of a difference, just get the dose right (I see people are saying 1/4 of what a vet would recommend) I'd do that and give her a chance to bulk out, if she doesn't then go ahead and spay in 6 months.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

ok I don't know a lot about this drug ... is it in tab form given each month ???

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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

just rang to vets too see wot they can offer. awaiting a call back

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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

vets appointment booked for Friday .. too see if we can sort anything out for her ... so if anyone has used ovarid on maiden queens please tell me your experience with it ..

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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

rose said:


> I am not a cat breeder at all, but if she isn't a perfect example, you are worried about her size the world is over run with cats why the dilemma about having her spayed? There will be better girls to breed from surely ?


This isn't in any way aimed at the OP - but the subject did get me, and maybe other people, thinking. If someone breeds pedigree cats from less than ideal stock, and the animals they breed don't particularly excel in the show ring - is it only really health testing that separates them from a moggy breeder - because aren't they fundamentally doing it because they like breeding cats and producing kittens who go on to be nice pets (with peds and mogs both generally being lovely pets). Fully understand if this is moved to its own thread so as not to interfere with the advice about the calling cat and possible treatment.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

How to explain without going to deep ... I see it abit like a jigsaw taking a small faults and then trying to put them faults right with good ones to get a perfect match ... Not all show cats make great breeding cats and not all great breeding cats make show cats .. This could to down to eye colour, ears markings and so on ... Any major faults obviously cannot not be used for breeding . We work hard to get and keep to breed standard ..


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Pics of ruby .... Wot do you think


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Front view


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Sided view


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

No idea if she is any good for breeding, she is very pretty though


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

2nd side view


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Rosie a ruby together


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Sorry the pics are not together ... iPad grrrrrrr


Rosie


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## PetloverJo (Nov 4, 2011)

She's gorgeous but I know nothing. 

I must admit though that it may be better to wait, maybe she's just a bit slow at growing. Henry at a year old seemed really small to me and he looked underweight, I've noticed just recently that he has grown both outwards and upwards.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

rose said:


> I am not a cat breeder at all, but if she isn't a perfect example, you are worried about her size the world is over run with cats why the dilemma about having her spayed? There will be better girls to breed from surely ?


Because no cat is perfect.

A cat with slightly high ears when mated to a cat with great ears can produce excellent kittens.
Or a cat with poor eye colour put to the right partner with great eyes....that's how breeds are moved forward and things improved.

Many I know say they'll work with 2 faults but not 3. As that's too much to correct.

I have a girl with a very weak chin, put to a boy with an excellent chin and all the kittens had great profiles. She is a nice cat in other ways and shows ok, but her colour goes against her at shows being a dilute against dense competition. Some colours will always win over others in many breeds.
It's far easier to win with a brown Bengal than a snow for instance.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

She is beautiful.


Never thought i would see the day when i would stroll into Cat Chat and find people trying to persuade someone not to spay a cat.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

bit different as she is my breeding queen lol

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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_shes very pretty, i can see the size difference in them from the picture, but she is still only young, i would wait a while before deciding to spay her,she might fill out alot in the next few months. _


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

colliemerles said:


> _shes very pretty, i can see the size difference in them from the picture, but she is still only young, i would wait a while before deciding to spay her,she might fill out alot in the next few months. _


Yes Rosie is a lot bigger 2kg bigger ... Going to vets on Friday to see if we can get her on ovarid ... Cannot have her calling like she does there will be nothing on her in a few months ...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Hard to tell from photos - can't feel her, and I suspect she has pulled faces for the camera - but she simply looks immature to me which at 9 months most BSH do! Spaying is very final, if she was mine I'd be happy to give her 6 months or so with a little bit of Ovarid each time it looks like she is going into call. So far as I know (not having used it myself) that's what people find works at a minimum dose, not the regular larger dose the vet suggests.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Hard to tell from photos - can't feel her, and I suspect she has pulled faces for the camera - but she simply looks immature to me which at 9 months most BSH do! Spaying is very final, if she was mine I'd be happy to give her 6 months or so with a little bit of Ovarid each time it looks like she is going into call. So far as I know (not having used it myself) that's what people find works at a minimum dose, not the regular larger dose the vet suggests.


From the research I have done its looks like you can do it two ways

2.5mg once a week for 30 weeks but still give in enoestus

Or

5mg for three day as soon as you see signs of calling

am more inclined to go with with the three days and reduce the dosage to see how we go...


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Noooooo! Nonononononono!!!!!

Definitely not 5 MG for 3 days! Nonono! Have I said no yet?

1/4 of a 5 MG tablet a few days vefore you know she's due to call. I've been told to let them have a clear call after every 5 MG tablet is used up, so that's 1 clear call in every 5.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Noooooo! Nonononononono!!!!!
> 
> Definitely not 5 MG for 3 days! Nonono! Have I said no yet?
> 
> 1/4 of a 5 MG tablet a few days vefore you know she's due to call. I've been told to let them have a clear call after every 5 MG tablet is used up, so that's 1 clear call in every 5.


I did say reduced dosage

So you say just give her 1/4 of a tab a couple of day before she is due and don't continue on day two and three ?

Then again for the next three due call dates and then let her call


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Noooooo! Nonononononono!!!!!
> 
> Definitely not 5 MG for 3 days! Nonono! Have I said no yet?
> 
> 1/4 of a 5 MG tablet a few days vefore you know she's due to call. I've been told to let them have a clear call after every 5 MG tablet is used up, so that's 1 clear call in every 5.


How would you work it with a queen who calls a bit erratically? Hypothetic question asked out of pure curiosity and nosyness.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> How would you work it with a queen who calls a bit erratically? Hypothetic question asked out of pure curiosity and nosyness.


Good question ... At the min am lucky ruby calls every 15/16 days so I judge when to give it to her , but am also told after the first dosage it can knock them off call for weeks which would be hard to judge ... Think that's why vet/drug company suggest you give on first sign of call over three days ... I don't know of anyone yet that has physically use ovarid to postpone .. Mushroom at the min


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Honestly I don'g know as I'm new to Ovarid myself. I tended to give to knock them off, then at the very first sign of a trill or any minute sign that she's going into call again, I gave another dose.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Ok I have found someone who has used ovarid for over twenty years on queens 


2,5mg on the first sign ov call or 1/4 of 5 mg every 3-4 weeks 

So if the vets are willing to give ruby ovarid, I think am going to give her 1.25mg on first sign of call ... If this does not work she may have to have the 2.5mg


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Sounds good!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Hopefully on Ovarid she will eat well and grow into herself over the next few months. I'm sure you will keep us posted!


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

I will keep you all posted ... There is not a lot of information out there ... Hopefully it will work its worth a try and if I get good result the knowledge from it is worth it's weight in gold


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I don't have the doses but one of my girls was on it every 4 weeks from when she started calling until she was allowed to be exported, so from 4-9 months. 

She called during her 30 days in the quarantine station here and has been a silent caller since living with me but her littermates all called normally as did her mother.

It's very common in Europe due to living arrangements and they find it odd that we have so many concerns about it. I view it as a last resort type thing. Hopefully does the trick for your girl.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

At 9 months shes still a baby she very much looks like a 9month old.

I remember you saying she got ill after using panacur but rosie didn't,is this right.It may just be that that's put her behind.

Tbh iv seen worse being bred I agree shes not big enough to breed from yet but that's just it shes still a kitten yet really.

Give her time id probably give 3 to 4 small meals a day too.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> At 9 months shes still a baby she very much looks like a 9month old.
> 
> I remember you saying she got ill after using panacur but rosie didn't,is this right.It may just be that that's put her behind.
> 
> ...


Yes ruby did get ill with panacur ...I put down three meals a day plus she free feeds in RC ... She eats like a horse 90% of the time .. Not so much when in call ... She is behind and if I can bulk her up by the end of be season I will be more than happy


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Yes ruby did get ill with panacur ...I put down three meals a day plus she free feeds in RC ... She eats like a horse 90% of the time .. Not so much when in call ... She is behind and if I can bulk her up by the end of be season I will be more than happy


Panacur! I hate the stuff,but that's another thread.

When she gets older she will prob be less active and fatten up.

Some brits take upto 3 years to fully grow so don't give up yet if im honest I think she'll be ok


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Panacur! I hate the stuff,but that's another thread.
> 
> When she gets older she will prob be less active and fatten up.
> 
> Some brits take upto 3 years to fully grow so don't give up yet if im honest I think she'll be ok


I will never ever use that bloody stuff again .... She is very active unlike the other two ... She is coming out for call today peace at last ... Lol How a little thing can be so loud... We will get there with her she just didnt get the huge gene lol


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

If you can control her calling hold off until 18 months before making that choice. I had a very small lilac girl and she hit 18 months and bloomed. BSH can and some do take up to 3 years to mature. I also have a choc bi colour that is 11 months and all of a sudden has shot up and filled out practically overnight. However mine are 11,12 & 14 months an none have called yet..


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Lucy1012 said:


> If you can control her calling hold off until 18 months before making that choice. I had a very small lilac girl and she hit 18 months and bloomed. BSH can and some do take up to 3 years to mature. I also have a choc bi colour that is 11 months and all of a sudden has shot up and filled out practically overnight. However mine are 11,12 & 14 months an none have called yet..


You are so Lucky Lucy .... If I can just control it until the end of the breeding season then hopefully we have a chance with her next season ...


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> You are so Lucky Lucy .... If I can just control it until the end of the breeding season then hopefully we have a chance with her next season ...


Id probably at least try and get her to a year old before breeding her.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Id probably at least try and get her to a year old before breeding her.


Gonna see how it goes ... 4 months max on ovarid so that will take us up to September/October time


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Gonna see how it goes ... 4 months max on ovarid so that will take us up to September/October time


Its just what id do I don't breed none of mine before a year.So most end up been over a year as I then end up waiting for their next call.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Its just what id do I don't breed none of mine before a year.So most end up been over a year as I then end up waiting for their next call.[
> 
> The four months ovarid will take her to 14 months so in a lot better position ... She has to have a clear call after ovarid so that will take us to October/November time ... I hate winter but think I will be wishing for it to come early this year


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> we love bsh's said:
> 
> 
> > Its just what id do I don't breed none of mine before a year.So most end up been over a year as I then end up waiting for their next call.[
> ...


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Cosmills said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I feel you have done the right thing and im sure she will bloom.
> ...


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Cosmills said:


> Front view


When I got April the breeder had 2 cats, the other one was taken by someone who wanted to breed. April's breeder said the other was more suitable for them as April was too small.

Your girl looks stockier than April who has just turned one. I do hope April bulks up a bit.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

Cookieandme said:


> When I got April the breeder had 2 cats, the other one was taken by someone who wanted to breed. April's breeder said the other was more suitable for them as April was too small.
> 
> Your girl looks stockier than April who has just turned one. I do hope April bulks up a bit.


I do think April deserves to be in your signature now she is well and truly part of the family!! :001_tongue:


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

oliviarussian said:


> I do think April deserves to be in your signature now she is well and truly part of the family!! :001_tongue:


I have been looking through the photos today but I can't get a good one of her, if only she would sty still like little Ruxpin


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Cookieandme said:


> I have been looking through the photos today but I can't get a good one of her, if only she would sty still like little Ruxpin


April, is stunning ... Am sure she will grow into a fine lass


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

Cosmills said:


> Am sure she will grow into a fine lass


A bit sleep deprived so I read "am sure she will grow into that fine ass"...:lol:

As a person who only works with silvers at the moment, my girls are 'destined' to be small. Luna's regular weight is 4kg when she's not calling or nursing. Mina is still growing, she's 1,5 years old and 3,5kg but very well proportioned. I won't be breeding her before her 2nd birthday, she's mentally still way too childish. 
Luna may be small but she passes on very good features and her kittens grow up to be normal or even huge.

I've only had 2 colourpoint Brits, but neither had/has good eyecolour. I think BS/LHs are still on the road to get there, and that road is going to be long. In the meanwhile we'll just have to live with the paler blue eyes and breed those too, or the colour gets very inbred.

I'm not familiar with Ovarid (we may have it under different name), but there's also Suprelorin implants. On females they usually work for at least a year. Don't have experience of it on females, but I've never heard anything bad about it. Breeders have discussed about it on a Finnish cat forum quite openly. My stud had it, and the only bad thing I can say is that he got fat, but that's more my fault. He has succesfully had kittens after that.


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