# best hamster and cage for 10 yr old girl?



## mrsmorton (Feb 26, 2011)

im thinking of getting my daughter a hamster for her birthday
is a syrian best for her?

what cage is best? i want plastic and no bars (or only bars at opening at top)
i want a fairly large cage with lots to do but no more than 2 tiers high

thanks


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

A Syrian would be best as they are bigger and slower (well, they are suposed to be!). I highly encourage you to purchase one from a breeder rather than a pet shop. Pet shop hammys can be agressive, unhealthy critters sadly. Where abouts are you? Someone will be able to point you in the right direction of a good breeder. 

Not sure on the cage, I think a ZooZone would probably be your best bet but I know very little about those cages. I have a Savic Hamster Heaven which is a great size and quality but it is a barred cage. 

Are you sure that getting a hamster for her is the best idea? Obviously I know nothing of you, your daughter or your situation but there are always horror stories of children getting bored with hamsters and them then getting neglected (the hamster, not the child :lol: ). 

Also, make sure you do plenty of research re health, diet, enrichment (sp?) etc before getting one (which I assume you are as you are posting here  ).


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

I think a Syrian would be best as they are easier to handle and tame than a dwarf hamster. As for the cage then most people on here with Syrians, myself included would go for an Hamster Heaven which is quite a large hamster cage but unfortunately has bars which you don't want. Is there a reason you don't want bars? 

If you really do want an all plastic one you would need a largeish one for a Syrian hamster, maybe something like a large Zoozone cage. I don't like the all plastic ones though because I think they are very easy to crack when you are washing them.

My 10 year old got a Chinese hamster last week for her birthday and she is in an habritrail ovo loft with two extensions on but unfortunately they aren't big enough for Syrians.


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

I may or may not be alone in thinking that a hamster is not the best pet for a child (though we are conditioned to believe that hamsters and rabbits are 'ideal' pets for children, it often isn't true).

Have you thought about rats? They are much more interactive and friendly - are much like little dogs in that respect; they will be able to learn their names and commands and will always be scrabbling at the bars of the cage to meet your daughter. In my opinion they are much more dependable tractability-wise.

I do think hamsters are fantastic pets and I love my hamster immensely - but I do not think they are the ideal pet for a child.

If your heart is set on a hamster, though - the cage (for a Syrian) should be no smaller than 60cm in length (I personally would not put my hamster in anything less than 80cm). Height isn't particularly important - a one level cage would be fine. If you wanted a tank-style cage, I would recommend the Duna.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

The problem with hamsters is that being nocturnal that they only usually come out when children are in bed so they don't get much fun from them.


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

Jazzy said:


> The problem with hamsters is that being nocturnal that they only usually come out when children are in bed so they don't get much fun from them.


No they aint    They are whatever the name is for animals that come out at dawn and dusk


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

PurpleCrow said:


> No they aint    They are whatever the name is for animals that come out at dawn and dusk


That's nocturnal isn't it?:confused1:


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

Jazzy said:


> That's nocturnal isn't it?:confused1:


Nope  *googles*

Crepuscular! Hamsters are Crepuscular :thumbup:


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

PurpleCrow said:


> Nope  *googles*
> 
> Crepuscular! Hamsters are Crepuscular :thumbup:


Bobby wakes up whenever he thinks there might be food.


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> Bobby wakes up whenever he thinks there might be food.


Hehehe, Luna wakes up to chew the bars as soon as we get into bed


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

PurpleCrow said:


> Nope  *googles*
> 
> Crepuscular! Hamsters are Crepuscular :thumbup:


Clever dick..:001_tt2::001_tt2::001_tt2:

Well my hamsters are nocturnal cos they don't use google.:lol:


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

PurpleCrow said:


> Hehehe, Luna wakes up to chew the bars as soon as we get into bed


Do you keep her in the bedroom?


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

Jazzy said:


> Clever dick..:001_tt2::001_tt2::001_tt2:
> 
> Well my hamsters are nocturnal cos they don't use google.:lol:


:lol::lol::lol::lol:



Jazzy said:


> Do you keep her in the bedroom?


Yeah she is, we could keep her in the spare bedroom but I like hearing her pottering about in her cage while I'm falling asleep  She doesnt chew the bars much since we got her a new wheel though (flying saucer) :thumbup:


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## tjk (Sep 1, 2010)

at that age i had a russian dwarf which i bought off my teacher for a pound i loved her to bits an my sister who was 1 or 2 used to put her in her doll pram an push her around like a dolly an chat away to her and tried to train her like a puppy lol the only downside is they dont live very long think my girl was 4 when she went off to deven


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

PurpleCrow said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> Yeah she is, we could keep her in the spare bedroom but I like hearing her pottering about in her cage while I'm falling asleep  She doesnt chew the bars much since we got her a new wheel though (flying saucer) :thumbup:


You're braver than me then.:lol: :lol: I keep the one in the hamster heaven in the kitchen and the dwarf hamsters in the living room so I can't hear any wheels in the night. :laugh:


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## mrsmorton (Feb 26, 2011)

thanks guys

i think it would be the perfect pet for her, she has wanted one for ages and is an only child. me and the hubby work full time too so cant entertain her all time due to other jobs when we are home (cleaning etc) so i think this will become her best friend, she is very loving, caring and gentle and ive already explained the commitment and she is happy to shell out for supplies using her pocket money 

if she lost interest (unlikely) i would take over lol
i have kept syrians, dwarfs and roborowskis in the past so im not a stranger to hammies. just wondered if you all thought syrian best for a child?

what are chinese like? never had any experience with them

been looking for a breeder as opposed to pet shop (had problems in past)
but im at a loss as where to look?
im in north east

thanks x


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## mrsmorton (Feb 26, 2011)

oh yes and about the cage - dont want all over bars as my favourite ever hammie (who was a syrian) took to nibbling hers at night and im hoping i can keep the cage in daughters bedroom therefore hope for not too much noise - or mess! 

i want something fairly big if i get syrian so they could run a mock and have fun lol

but preferably not something i would have to modify too much - just unpack and go 

x


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

mrsmorton said:


> thanks guys
> 
> i think it would be the perfect pet for her, she has wanted one for ages and is an only child. me and the hubby work full time too so cant entertain her all time due to other jobs when we are home (cleaning etc) so i think this will become her best friend, she is very loving, caring and gentle and ive already explained the commitment and she is happy to shell out for supplies using her pocket money
> 
> ...


Try the National Hamster Council, they will have a list of accredited breeders in your area


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

This is our new Chinese hamster.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

siberiankiss said:


> I may or may not be alone in thinking that a hamster is not the best pet for a child (though we are conditioned to believe that hamsters and rabbits are 'ideal' pets for children, it often isn't true).
> 
> Have you thought about rats? They are much more interactive and friendly - are much like little dogs in that respect; they will be able to learn their names and commands and will always be scrabbling at the bars of the cage to meet your daughter. In my opinion they are much more dependable tractability-wise.
> 
> ...


I was thinking Rats or Mice as in my experience they are easier for the children to handle.. 
I have 5 hamsters 4 I would say are fab and you can pick them out when you want.. but one.. he is a monster bit my son the other night when I he put his hand in to get the feeding bowl out.. :lol:

I do have one of my hammies in a 3' tank.. she is sat next to my computer so gets all tit bits when I am scoffing.. She has loads of things in there.. Also be warned you will probably need a bigger wheel than one you would get sold with most cages..

Mice are little clingons and active little guys.. you could get a couple and they would be very happy easy to handle.. 

Rats the same you would need a couple Id advise boys as that is what I have and they are like little dogs.. litter trained and all have there own personalities.. They will sit and cuddle you go through your hair snuggle in your jumper or your hood.. lick you and just behave like little lap pets.. 

Hamster like to roam about when they get out of their cage and I haven't met many that want to just sit in your lap or be held..


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Jazzy said:


> Do you keep her in the bedroom?


This is why I have the tank.. for the one i have in my bedroom.. :lol: remember I had the prob of her smashing her water bottle around when I got into bed :lol: problem solved I managed to get all the big wheels in situ and she just makes a bit of noise with that now..


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## mrsmorton (Feb 26, 2011)

i think a rat would be lovely for her (and she has voiced a strong interest in them lol) but we havent got the room really

i had 2 mice when very young - micky and minney - how original 
but obviously my parents looked after them mainly
i cant really remember that much about them?

we had problems with incorrect sexing of our robs (i had 3 'boys') and it led to a breeding frenzy
never want to get into that situation again which is why i was erring toward a syrian

x


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## mrsmorton (Feb 26, 2011)

the chinese hamster is gorgeous
do they like to be kept with others? 
are they flighty?
x


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

mrsmorton said:


> i think a rat would be lovely for her (and she has voiced a strong interest in them lol) but we havent got the room really
> 
> i had 2 mice when very young - micky and minney - how original
> but obviously my parents looked after them mainly
> ...


For just two rats.. I dont think you would need a massive amount of room.. especially if your daughter can free range them in her bedroom..  They ar fab pets.. And like I say. like little dogs.. follow you about.. 

As for mice. easy to handle they dont jump off you which is what bugs me about the hamsters.. mice will climb all over you..  They wont dive off your bed.. but then again my rats have never tried to either..  but the hamsters blimey I can't take my eyes off one if I pop it on the bed.. :lol:


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Yes they are quite fast unfortunately, we only got her last Sunday so she's still a bit timid. 
Pets at home used to advise that they are kept in pairs but I would never do this as once they mature they seem to fight and sometimes this ends in the death of one of them so I won't chance it. My sister had two and one of them killed the other one and was eating it when she came downstairs in the morning.:scared:

What about guinea pigs, they can be tamed easily, have loads of personality and love being cuddled and brushed? Not nocturnal either.:thumbup:


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## mrsmorton (Feb 26, 2011)

hmmm considering 2 female mice if i can get from a reputable breeder who will sex them properly

and possibly the cambridge cage?

what floor covering do you use?
lots of conflicting info on that x


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

mrsmorton said:


> hmmm considering 2 female mice if i can get from a reputable breeder who will sex them properly
> 
> and possibly the cambridge cage?
> 
> ...


I dont have mice now.. but I would use the same as I do for my rats.. Its that wood based cat litter.. doesn't smell (I dont think).. I dont know what area you are But Yorkshire Rose on here is possibly the best person to ask.. 
You can also get them from rescue.. they tend to have lots in.. 

A normal hamster cage you will prob find babies will escape through the bars.. but not once they are adults.. you could make a temporary bin cage till they are big enough and that will be very cheap.. it also gives you somewhere to put them when you are cleaning their cage out..


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

I wouldn't use wood based cat litter at all; it's just compressed sawdust. When wet or soiled it gives off phenols which can irritate the respiratory tract. Rats and mice have such sensitive little noses you really do have to be careful what you give them.

Generally the most favoured substrates are shredded cardboard (Finacard, Ecobed, Green Mile), Hemp (Aubiose, Hemcore), paper/recycled paper (Yesterday's News, Carefresh), Newspaper, Fleece and Cotton towels

My rats and hamster have a thin layer of Aubiose topped up with a thicker layer of either Finacard/Ecobed/Greenmile. I then give shredded paper and tissue for them to use as bedding.

Though the Cambridge cage is adequate for mice, I'm really big on giving caged animals as much space as you can. Considering how active mice are I wouldn't put them in anything smaller than a Freddy 2.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

siberiankiss said:


> I wouldn't use wood based cat litter at all; it's just compressed sawdust. When wet or soiled it gives off phenols which can irritate the respiratory tract. Rats and mice have such sensitive little noses you really do have to be careful what you give them.
> 
> Generally the most favoured substrates are shredded cardboard (Finacard, Ecobed, Green Mile), Hemp (Aubiose, Hemcore), paper/recycled paper (Yesterday's News, Carefresh), Newspaper, Fleece and Cotton towels
> 
> My rats and hamster have a thin layer of Aubiose topped up with a thicker layer of either Finacard/Ecobed/Greenmile. I then give shredded paper and tissue for them to use as bedding.


I have a cat litter tray in my rat cage... and thats the only place it is.. and so far has been fine.. have also heard of many using this.. thats how I started using it..  Ive always been told not to use shavings but large chip can be ok as long as minima dust... Also my rats train is cleaned out quite regular with there being seven in there.. 

And for bedding I use tissue I shred it a bit then let them do the rest..


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> I have a cat litter tray in my rat cage... and thats the only place it is.. and so far has been fine.. have also heard of many using this.. thats how I started using it..  Ive always been told not to use shavings but large chip can be ok as long as minima dust... Also my rats train is cleaned out quite regular with there being seven in there..
> 
> And for bedding I use tissue I shred it a bit then let them do the rest..


Really? I have only ever heard or been told bad things about it. I've just searched this forum, the NERS forum and the Fancy Rat forum and cannot find anything to condone their use.

We all know how bad sawdust and wood shavings (though some hard chip shavings are considered okay (though I still wouldn't use them) are, so why should the compressed stuff be any better? Honestly, there are so many other options available, I really would change - it's just not worth risking your rat's health just because 'so far it's been fine'. It could be doing damage to them that isn't obvious yet.


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

I would second the rats....they are much more friendly and doesn't metter if they escape cos they just go back to their cage!! They are much more friendly than all other animals I have had. You could adopt some older ones as the litter training and taming has been done. Mice are great but fast and more often than not if they have gone they have really gone. But the cambridge cage is great. I use aubiose horse bedding for all my animals cos it's great, natural and comes in a 20kg sack so lasts forever


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I'd just like to say well done for deciding to go with a breeder rather than a pet shop:thumbup:
Good luck with your search for a hamster for your daughter


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> I wouldn't use wood based cat litter at all; it's just compressed sawdust. When wet or soiled it gives off phenols which can irritate the respiratory tract. Rats and mice have such sensitive little noses you really do have to be careful what you give them.


That only applies to cedar and pine woodshavings which is why the majority of woodshavings available in the UK are Aspen.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

PurpleCrow said:


> That only applies to cedar and pine woodshavings which is why the majority of woodshavings available in the UK are Aspen.


I am right.. it is fine for the rats.. I have seen a few on here and its come up before to use them.. its off here I spotted them.. then when I went the pet shop and spoke to me mate he said that what all rat people use.. :lol:


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## jamie1977 (Jan 17, 2011)

I suggest Degus :thumbup:
Good pets for children, are awake in the day. Can be handled, though are quite fast. You would need at least 2 though. Also need a cage fairly bigger than a hammie cage. 

Not sure about rats, hammies etc. But wood based cat litter is not advised with Degus because they expand when they come in contact with water, and as Degus like eating wood this causes problems when they expand in the degus stomachs. This is also the case with paper based ones.

Seems to be a fair few in rescues as well, though there are also alot of rats etc in rescues as well. Have you thought of the rescue route for her future pet? Some are really young (pregnant females going into rescues then giving birth).


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

jamie1977 said:


> I suggest Degus :thumbup:
> Good pets for children, are awake in the day. Can be handled, though are quite fast. You would need at least 2 though. Also need a cage fairly bigger than a hammie cage.
> *
> Not sure about rats, hammies etc. But wood based cat litter is not advised with Degus because they expand when they come in contact with water, and as Degus like eating wood this causes problems when they expand in the degus stomachs. This is also the case with paper based ones.*
> ...


Ohh you've given me a horrible image of exploding degus now!! :scared:


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

PurpleCrow said:


> Ohh you've given me a horrible image of exploding degus now!! :scared:


Irl tell you something horrible now.. I dont know if you have heard of sugar beet pellets.. For horses..

Well you have to soak them, I used to do it over night so they had expanded.. If you dont your horse could die..

Well if a rat or mouse scoffed these when it breaks into your feed room.. Its certain death.. as they expand huge.. :yikes:

I am pretty sure the rats dont try to eat the wood based pellets.. They tend to pee on them and then they break down.. And sink underneath the other pellets... when I empty the litter tray at the top is pellets and under neath is powder..


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## princesslea (Jul 6, 2010)

I second the rats. I think she'll probably be less likely to get bored of them. I have rats and a hamster, and although I love fluff (the hamster) to bits, the rats are much more interactive. I also find fluff very delicate and she does think she can fly at times so you have to be very carefull as even short falls can be fatal for hamsters. Rats bounce a bit more in my experience lol

I have my hamster in a hamster heaven, which are quite expensive but is like a mansion. I have seen these on Ebay much cheaper (which is highly annoying!!) They do have bars, but also a deep plastic base which stops the litter from being kicked out. I personnally prefer bars to plastic as you can hang allsorts of toys for them, they provide better ventilation and also gives the hamster a climbing frame.

good luck in what you decide, and post us some piccys:thumbup:


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## jamie1977 (Jan 17, 2011)

Just to add Degus can be fairly vocal (though not extremely loud etc), though this is also part of their appeal, the way they chatter etc.

I would also as already done by others suggest rats.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

jamie1977 said:


> Just to add Degus can be fairly vocal (though not extremely loud etc), though this is also part of their appeal, the way they chatter etc.
> 
> I would also as already done by others suggest rats.


They talk??

I have a rat called squeaky.. and he does squeak a lot.. if another approaches him.. he is like a monkey sending alarm bells through the jungle.. If I go to pick him up.. he squeaks. ;lol;p i just ignore him these days..


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## RetroLemons (Nov 11, 2010)

PurpleCrow said:


> That only applies to cedar and pine woodshavings which is why the majority of woodshavings available in the UK are Aspen.


I still wouldn't use the shavings as they tend to be dustier than paper based substrate like Finacard or Ecopetbed. I have read that some people use bedmax shaving which are bigger and less dustier but in this instance they are well bred rats from known lines who where kept on them before. If you rescue or get rats from someone who doesnt keep them on shaving I wouldnt even think of it.

Either way I would rather be safer than sorry and use a substrate I know isn't as dusty as woodshaving which i know irritate my eyes let alone their respiritory tract! 

I also agree rats will probably be better! Much more interactive and as said before just like little doggies in some ways, when I was younger and had a hamster I just didnt get the same joy from her as I have done my ratties :thumbup:


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

RetroLemons said:


> I still wouldn't use the shavings as they tend to be dustier than paper based substrate like Finacard or Ecopetbed. I have read that some people use bedmax shaving which are bigger and less dustier but in this instance they are well bred rats from known lines who where kept on them before. If you rescue or get rats from someone who doesnt keep them on shaving I wouldnt even think of it.
> 
> Either way I would rather be safer than sorry and use a substrate I know isn't as dusty as woodshaving which i know irritate my eyes let alone their respiritory tract!


Woodshavings in the UK are safe to use because they are dust extracted  I have asthma and quite a severe dust allergy but have no problems with woodshavings.

As long as woodshavings arent cedar or pine and are dust extracted they are perfectly safe to use with small animals :thumbup:

Apologies but advising someone that its better to be safe then sorry is a bit pointless and misleading when saying it about a product that is actually safe to use. I'm not saying that its the best in the market or suitable for each individual animal but woodshavings are safe to use.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

PurpleCrow said:


> Woodshavings in the UK are safe to use because they are dust extracted  I have asthma and quite a severe dust allergy but have no problems with woodshavings.
> 
> As long as woodshavings arent cedar or pine and are dust extracted they are perfectly safe to use with small animals :thumbup:
> 
> Apologies but advising someone that its better to be safe then sorry is a bit pointless and misleading when saying it about a product that is actually safe to use. I'm not saying that its the best in the market or suitable for each individual animal but woodshavings are safe to use.


Also I think people get confused between wood shavings and sawdust..


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## Lady Sol (Aug 20, 2009)

niki87 said:


> I would second the rats....they are much more friendly and doesn't metter if they escape cos they just go back to their cage!!


So do some of my hamsters. I've currently got 13 and another 6 are RIP. I've never had one escape yet and not return to their cage (crosses fingers and touches wood :lol. Acorn does escape given any chance at all, but I've always recaught him straight away (well within 3 hours of crawling round my floor with a hamster ball and peanuts  ). You just have to watch him like a hawk when you open the cage.

I'd say rats or a syrian for a 10 year-old. Though my friend's daughters have russians instead and we used to have russians at school when we were aged 7-8 years old. Syrians are a lot easier to handle, Bandit is my most handable, she was left at [email protected] with her unwanted littermates, but I think her last owners had tried to do their best when they found the babies and she'd obviously been handled a lot before she came home. Some of my [email protected] hamsters never became cuddly so it's best you are going to a breeder.

My hamsters kept me awake running in their wheels last night and they live downstairs and I live upstairs. I could never sleep in the same room as them. Even when Sunshine was in a bin cage with no bars, she made a right racket chewing on the metal end of her wooden chewing toy (she ignored the wooden end )


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

It remains my opinon, wood shavings, sawdust and/or shaving are not suitable. There are other perfectly good (cheaper) alternatives. It seems people prefer to be ignorant... so be it. I can provide you with evidence to back up my claim. I would LOVE to see some papers supporting the use of wood pellets, shavings and sawdust over the use of the other aforementioned substrates.


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> It remains my opinon, wood shavings, sawdust and/or shaving are not suitable. There are other perfectly good (cheaper) alternatives. It seems people prefer to be ignorant... so be it. I can provide you with evidence to back up my claim. I would LOVE to see some papers supporting the use of wood pellets, shavings and sawdust over the use of the other aforementioned substrates.


I'm not ignorant thank you very much 

As I said in my previous post woodshavings are SAFE, I didnt say that they were the best substrate on the market. Also, my posts have only refered to woodshavings, not wood pellets (which dont encourage natural digging behaviour and I cant imagine they are comfortable tbh) or sawdust.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

PurpleCrow said:


> I'm not ignorant thank you very much
> 
> As I said in my previous post woodshavings are SAFE, I didnt say that they were the best substrate on the market. Also, my posts have only refered to woodshavings, not wood pellets (which dont encourage natural digging behaviour and I cant imagine they are comfortable tbh) or sawdust.


Well i only have them in the litter tray..  and they have laminate flooring to walk on everywhere else.. so mine have as much comfort as me.. Cause thats what flooring I have..


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Well i only have them in the litter tray..  and they have laminate flooring to walk on everywhere else.. so mine have as much comfort as me.. Cause thats what flooring I have..


I'll remain firm on my stance on wood pellets. They are compressed sawdust. End of.

I suppose laminate is perfectly safe but I wouldn't use it purely because it wouldn't allow my rats to exhibit their natural behaviours; digging, scrabbling for food, building nests out of it etc. I think a nice thick layer of substrate is very important. But I'm all for cage enrichment.


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Well i only have them in the litter tray..  and they have laminate flooring to walk on everywhere else.. so mine have as much comfort as me.. Cause thats what flooring I have..


Is woodbased cat litter in pellet form? Dont have a cat or anything so I've never actually seen it before 

Do they slip on the laminate? I know I do when I have socks on :lol:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

PurpleCrow said:


> I'm not ignorant thank you very much
> 
> As I said in my previous post woodshavings are SAFE, I didnt say that they were the best substrate on the market. Also, my posts have only refered to woodshavings, not wood pellets (which dont encourage natural digging behaviour and I cant imagine they are comfortable tbh) or sawdust.


I don't know about hamsters but they aren't considered safe for rats, I wouldn't take the risk of respy problems with shavings when there's a lot of cheap safe laternatives to choose from


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> I don't know about hamsters but they aren't considered safe for rats, I wouldn't take the risk of respy problems with shavings when there's a lot of cheap safe laternatives to choose from


What is it about shavings that arent safe for them?

If its dust they are dust extracted in the UK, if its the toxicity of them once urinated on then thats because they are either cedar or pine, ones in the UK are Aspen which dont have these problems.


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

Fancy-rats.co.uk is the site that is considered to be one of the best places to get for rat info right?

This is from their website -



> *Unsuitable cage litters*
> Wood Shavings - pine, spruce and cedar shavings are one of the most commonly seen litters but in fact, there is evidence that suggests they may be harmful to the health of rats and other small animals. As well as generally being quite dusty, these softwood shavings give off phenols and acids that are toxic and could lead to irritation of the respiratory tract and skin, and liver disease. It is possible that in some rats this could reduce life expectancy. There are many other more suitable alternatives.
> Sawdust - all of the above applies to sawdust with the added problem of it's fine grain which renders it very dusty.
> Pine cat litter - wood pellet cat litters form sawdust when wet, and have all the issues of shavings/sawdust.


As you can see from the above quote they state the same thing as me except that dust extracted woodshavings (the difference between woodshavings and sawdust is stated above) arent mentioned.

EDIT:

From the Suitable Litter list -



> Hardwood shavings - these are safe and clean to use but can be expensive and are often difficult to obtain. Aspen is an example


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

:lol: Even Pets at Home don't recommend shavings for rats :lol: That's gotta tell you something!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

PurpleCrow said:


> What is it about shavings that arent safe for them?
> 
> If its dust they are dust extracted in the UK, if its the toxicity of them once urinated on then thats because they are either cedar or pine, ones in the UK are Aspen which dont have these problems.


As far as I know many woodshavings don't state what type they are, & as quite a lot of rats have respy issues the majority of rat owners prefer not to take the risk & use alternatives


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> :lol: Even Pets at Home don't recommend shavings for rats :lol: That's gotta tell you something!


So if its advice you agree with its good advice but bad advice if you dont agree with it? :confused1:


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

PurpleCrow said:


> So if its advice you agree with its good advice but bad advice if you dont agree with it? :confused1:


Pets at Home used to house rats on shavings. Until rat fanciers intervened and persuaded them to stop. I forget which rescue it was which was behind the campaign - but I'm sure I can find out if you are interested?


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## BiKERcc (Jan 29, 2011)

Jazzy said:


> What about guinea pigs, they can be tamed easily, have loads of personality and love being cuddled and brushed? Not nocturnal either.:thumbup:


My suggestion too 

I've had Guinea Pigs since being little, and their a fantastic little pet. Big enough to handle/hold without squirming away, great characters and quite hardy


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> :lol: Even Pets at Home don't recommend shavings for rats :lol: That's gotta tell you something!


:lol::lol::lol::lol:
sorry but this made me LOL, I didn't realise [email protected] were actually starting to dish out accurate advice, now if only we could get them to stop selling animals.........


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> Pets at Home used to house rats on shavings. Until rat fanciers intervened and persuaded them to stop. I forget which rescue it was which was behind the campaign - but I'm sure I can find out if you are interested?


Not interested in the campaign no  But maybe someone should let them know that a widely used rat website is listing aspen etc woodshavings as suitable for rats?


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

simplysardonic said:


> As far as I know many woodshavings don't state what type they are, & as quite a lot of rats have respy issues the majority of rat owners prefer not to take the risk & use alternatives


That's true. I've just looked on [email protected] website (in the hamster section) and it doesn't state that at all.

The fact is, I've heard evidence against them. I've seen how ill rats can get from being kept on them. Even the hard wood stuff I've heard terrible things about. It just isn't worth the risk for me - the stuff makes me wheeze! There are far, far, far better alternatives and I can't really comprehend why anybody would settle for 'might be okay', 'hasn't done any harm yet' over 'the most recommended'.


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> That's true. I've just looked on [email protected] website (in the hamster section) and it doesn't state that at all.
> 
> The fact is, I've heard evidence against them. I've seen how ill rats can get from being kept on them. Even the hard wood stuff I've heard terrible things about. It just isn't worth the risk for me - the stuff makes me wheeze! There are far, far, far better alternatives and *I can't really comprehend why anybody would settle for 'might be okay', 'hasn't done any harm yet' over 'the most recommended'.*


When did I say that? Or is that not directed to anyone in particular?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

siberiankiss said:


> Pets at Home used to house rats on shavings. Until rat fanciers intervened and persuaded them to stop. I forget which rescue it was which was behind the campaign - but I'm sure I can find out if you are interested?


Pets at home were using the same as me last time I went in..


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

PurpleCrow said:


> When did I say that? Or is that not directed to anyone in particular?


I said I have not had any probs with the pellets I use..

I dont leave them festering.. My cage is vacuumed daily.. there for extracting any dust... And any stray poops then I clean all the shelves..


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

momentofmadness said:


> Pets at home were using the same as me last time I went in..


Pets at Home use Biocatolet which is a _paper_ based cat litter. It's recently fallen out of favour as they've started adding scent to it which is never good.


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

PurpleCrow said:


> When did I say that? Or is that not directed to anyone in particular?


Nobody in particular.


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

siberiankiss said:


> Pets at Home use Biocatolet which is a _paper_ based cat litter. It's recently fallen out of favour as they've started adding scent to it which is never good.


I got my first lot from there.. and then went my pet shop.. he said all the rat peeps round here use it..

Listen this thread is about a mum wanted to get her daughter a rodent for her birthday.. why don't you start a new thread with your arguments..


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> Pets at Home use Biocatolet which is a _paper_ based cat litter. It's recently fallen out of favour as they've started adding scent to it which is never good.


Why oh why any company think adding scent to animal litter, substrate, bedding etc is a good idea I have no idea whatsoever.

I do use woodshavings (although may be moving to megazorb once I move and can store the massive bags as its more absorbant) but I would never buy any of those damned stupid scented ones.


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

PurpleCrow said:


> Why oh why any company think adding scent to animal litter, substrate, bedding etc is a good idea I have no idea whatsoever.
> 
> I do use woodshavings (although may be moving to megazorb once I move and can store the massive bags as its more absorbant) but I would never buy any of those damned stupid scented ones.


As a heads up, I bought a bag of Megazorb and it was horrendously dusty. We threw it away without even using it. May have been a duff bag though.


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

If you're interested, momentofmadness, there is a whole thread here (on FR forum) on Biocatolet which you may find interesting. Or you might just ignore it.


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> As a heads up, I bought a bag of Megazorb and it was horrendously dusty. We threw it away without even using it. May have been a duff bag though.


Well thats not so good then!

Actually just did a google search about megazorb and dust and it seems its quite a common problem with it. Lots of forum posts (from loads of different forums) came up in google about dusty megazorb. People were saying that they would empty cages and finding massive layers of dust in it (which I assume has sunk and settled there.

I never end up with dust at the bottom of Lunas cage from woodshavings although I wouldnt recommend Wilkinsons woodshavings, I bought some and there were loads of little bits of plastic in it  Thankfully they were bright green and I could easily pick them out.


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

PurpleCrow said:


> Well thats not so good then!
> 
> Actually just did a google search about megazorb and dust and it seems its quite a common problem with it. Lots of forum posts (from loads of different forums) came up in google about dusty megazorb. People were saying that they would empty cages and finding massive layers of dust in it (which I assume has sunk and settled there.
> 
> I never end up with dust at the bottom of Lunas cage from woodshavings although I wouldnt recommend Wilkinsons woodshavings, I bought some and there were loads of little bits of plastic in it  Thankfully they were bright green and I could easily pick them out.


I use Aubiose and Finacard for my hamster and he loves digging in it and makes some magnificent nests. He especially loves Finacard.


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> I use Aubiose and Finacard for my hamster and he loves digging in it and makes some magnificent nests. He especially loves Finacard.


I looked into it but its got some negative points made by the National Hamster Council which put me off tbh. Plus I would be worried about paper (well cardboard) cuts...


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

PurpleCrow said:


> I looked into it but its got some negative points made by the National Hamster Council which put me off tbh. Plus I would be worried about paper (well cardboard) cuts...


Really? Can you link? Finacard is very soft, it doesn't have sharp edges so I am not worried about injury. It's the reason I wouldn't give him Ecobed, though.


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> Really? Can you link? Finacard is very soft, it doesn't have sharp edges so I am not worried about injury. It's the reason I wouldn't give him Ecobed, though.


Here's the NHC page about substrate General Care - National Hamster Council

PS - I didnt know you could get soft versions of the cardboard, I just had images of cut up corregated cardboard lol!


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

PurpleCrow said:


> Here's the NHC page about substrate General Care - National Hamster Council
> 
> PS - I didnt know you could get soft versions of the cardboard, I just had images of cut up corregated cardboard lol!


If you PM me your address I can send you a small bag to try if you like.


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

siberiankiss said:


> If you PM me your address I can send you a small bag to try if you like.


Oh wow! I'd love you too  Will send you a PM now  Thank you :thumbup:


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2011)

I think getting a rat or even Gerbils would be a far better option than a hamster for a child. I love my syrian Hamster to bits but she is very cage aggressive and trying to close the cage without my fingers getting bitten is pretty difficult as she is so quick. Ive never once had a gerbil bite me though. They are however very quick and could be easily dropped by a child if they arnt tamed. A good way of taming them is sitting in the bath with them so they can run about without escaping and can climb on you and get to know you without getting scared of hands coming for them. My gerbils are so friendly now that I only have to open the cage to put some food in their bowl and they are climbing onto my arm and onto my shoulder. I found when I had rats years ago they were very much like my gerbils in nature. I would say rats are easier to tame and handle though but again ive never been bitten by them unlike With Hamsters. Some hamsters are wonderful with being handled by young children but unfortunatly a lot arnt. Rats I believe do better in barred cages though whereas Gerbils are definatly better in a tank style cage so they can dig loads.


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## jamie1977 (Jan 17, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> They talk??
> 
> I have a rat called squeaky.. and he does squeak a lot.. if another approaches him.. he is like a monkey sending alarm bells through the jungle.. If I go to pick him up.. he squeaks. ;lol;p i just ignore him these days..


They have a whole range of noises, squeeks and clicks etc.


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## mrsmorton (Feb 26, 2011)

wow a lot of debate there on floor coverings 

i do think the rats would be best but it comes down to space, we dont have much room for a mouse/hamster cage never mind a big rat one.

need a cage to fit on top of her chest of drawers (90x45cm) as this is where i intend it to stay (possibly have to move them at night if it proves to be too noisy)

x


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

mrsmorton said:


> wow a lot of debate there on floor coverings
> 
> i do think the rats would be best but it comes down to space, we dont have much room for a mouse/hamster cage never mind a big rat one.
> 
> ...


As long as the cage had height I dont think that would be a prob.. its just under a metre in length.. Have a look on some sight of some rat cages.. then check the measurements.. right own the ones suitable.. then get on Ebay..


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

BiKERcc said:


> My suggestion too
> 
> I've had Guinea Pigs since being little, and their a fantastic little pet. Big enough to handle/hold without squirming away, great characters and quite hardy


Yes I agree - we've got 12 of them.:laugh:


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## mrsmorton (Feb 26, 2011)

again ive no got the room for guinea pigs but i do love them, my cousin had 2 when i was little, we would spend hours in the garden with them x


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## PurpleCrow (Mar 22, 2009)

mrsmorton said:


> again ive no got the room for guinea pigs but i do love them, my cousin had 2 when i was little, we would spend hours in the garden with them x


I've just had a messure of my Hamster Heaven base, from "foot to foot" it measures roughly 31cm (although the base measures 50 at the top lip. It's 80cm long so no problems with the length.

Just thought I would measure it for you so you know one would fit on your chest of drawers


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

PurpleCrow said:


> I've just had a messure of my Hamster Heaven base, from "foot to foot" it measures roughly 31cm (although the base measures 50 at the top lip. It's 80cm long so no problems with the length.
> 
> Just thought I would measure it for you so you know one would fit on your chest of drawers


Most rat cages would fit too..  cause its height you need with them..


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## tjk (Sep 1, 2010)

oh my you guys have made me want a rat  im off to do some reserch 


good luck with your choice


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## mrsmorton (Feb 26, 2011)

oh so its not all about floor space with rats? do you know of a good rat cage that would fit? x


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

mrsmorton said:


> oh so its not all about floor space with rats? do you know of a good rat cage that would fit? x


I personally am not good on rats cages.. is what I would do.. is go and google rat cages and offers come up.. bear in mind your measurements.. and then hit ebay with the ones you liked..

Say this.. you will get cheaper on ebay.. just click rat cages on ebay and check the dimensions.. your floor ones too me are fine.. you need height for climbing.. a meter to a meter and half.. 

Ferplast Jenny KD Rodent Cage - Cage ONLY


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Where abouts are you? and what would you be looking to spend.


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## siberiankiss (Sep 24, 2010)

I personally think that floor space and height are equally important for rats. They love to climb, it keeps them fit - but equally they are playful and also like to scramble around for their food. I don't put anything on the floor of my rat cage because I scatter their food all over it and they run around chasing each other - I think I make more of the space that way than I would by putting little houses everywhere (plus encouraging them to climb to find somewhere to sleep keeps them active!)
I wouldn't keep rats in anything with a footprint of less than 80 x 50cm - but you're only just short of that width-wise so I think you'll be okay


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

Liberta (Abode) Rat Cage and Rat Accessories on eBay (end time 28-Feb-11 14:40:14 GMT)

Jenny Rat Cage on eBay (end time 01-Mar-11 15:22:41 GMT)

I like this..

Midwest Ferret Nation Cage on eBay (end time 01-Mar-11 17:54:36 GMT)

owner says bar spacing is too big for rats.. well babies do escape from big rat cages.. When they grow they are usually fine.. 

Jenny Rat/Degu Cage Large on eBay (end time 01-Mar-11 18:28:57 GMT)

ideal for mice this one.. if the bar spacing is small..


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## ashleighhhhh (Jul 8, 2009)

momentofmadness said:


> Liberta (Abode) Rat Cage and Rat Accessories on eBay (end time 28-Feb-11 14:40:14 GMT)
> 
> Jenny Rat Cage on eBay (end time 01-Mar-11 15:22:41 GMT)
> 
> ...


Theres also a Midwest Critter Nation, the ferret one you posted has very large bar spacing, they made the Critter Nation mainly for rats


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

Aren't the Ferret/Critter Nations a bit big for this instance? I'd suggest a pair of rats in a Freddy 2 or Jenny cage, that should fit on the chest of drawers and still be enough space for the ratties.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Ive got the freddy cage for my meeces (when they are fully grown) it looks like a lovely cage and would be fine for a couple of rats if they have plenty of free range time. I love my hamsters and wouldnt be ithout them but the rats are very different, they are much more loving and really are as close to a dog as you could have with a caged pet.


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