# Crufts 2018: Live stream



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The thread to discuss on all things live as it's happening 

https://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialCrufts

Good luck to all those showing/competing this year, and have fun to anyone who is just going for the shopping.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Ditto ^^^^ best of luck to everyone showing


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2018)

I’ll be watching it livestreaming on youtube.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2018)

Or I would if it worked at 8.33. It says 8.30, no later so crufts make it work, you are late livestreaming.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

danielled said:


> Or I would if it worked at 8.33. It says 8.30, no later so crufts make it work, you are late livestreaming.


It's starting now.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> It's starting now.


I thought so too but no it's not. They say it is starting at 8.40. At the minute it is humans walking around the agility course. We want dogs, we want dogs, we want dogs.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

danielled said:


> I thought so too but no it's not.


They always start by walking the course, every year.
They will start to bring the dogs out soon...just in time for me to start my day


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> They always start by walking the course, every year.
> They will start to bring the dogs out soon...just in time for me to start my day


Still humans. You see them walk it you'd think they were going to do it qhen actually it's the dogs who are going to so it. The humans just guide the dogs round by now. Wonder if crazy Olly the jack russell will be there after the laughs he gave us last year.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Yes, the humans walk the course so they they know which way to guide the dog and to check out distances between obstacles so they can set their dog up for success...Horse riders also walk their course without their horses too


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> Yes, the humans walk the course so they they know which way to guide the dog and to check out distances between obstacles so they can set their dog up for success...Horse riders also walk their course without their horses too


And what great fun that is :Arghh

I used to think 'and this is exactly where the fun will start. Those flowers look dodgy' :Facepalm


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> Yes, the humans walk the course so they they know which way to guide the dog and to check out distances between obstacles so they can set their dog up for success...Horse riders also walk their course without their horses too


I never walked the course when I rode my old mare Copper not even at horse shows.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2018)

Well that lady is right about being disabled. Not only that but we can be discriminated against. Discrimination has happened before, to me.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> And what great fun that is :Arghh
> 
> I used to think 'and this is exactly where the fun will start. Those flowers look dodgy' :Facepalm


I've been known to smash a few plant pots in my time...dressage and jumping...it wasn't unusual to see "well sat" as part of my judges remarks :Hilarious



danielled said:


> I never walked the course when I rode my old mare Copper not even at horse shows.


Lucky you...unfortunately once you get past local shows not walking the course isn't an option unless you want to miss distances and knock poles all over the place...to not walk a cross country course would be a death wish for sure.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Even for obedience they usually have someone walk the course first so that the handlers know when the turns will be. As stormythai says it helps the handlers set their dogs up for success.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Need to get myself some tissues after watching the friends for life entries. I'm such a wuss!


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> I've been known to smash a few plant pots in my time...dressage and jumping...it wasn't unusual to see "well sat" as part of my judges remarks :Hilarious
> 
> Lucky you...unfortunately once you get past local shows not walking the course isn't an option unless you want to miss distances and knock poles all over the place..*.to not walk a cross country course would be a death wish for sure.*


Yeah naff that and naff that again.

Although, technically according to the Crufts programme none of the events start till 08:45...


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> I've been known to smash a few plant pots in my time...dressage and jumping...it wasn't unusual to see "well sat" as part of my judges remarks :Hilarious
> 
> Lucky you...unfortunately once you get past local shows not walking the course isn't an option unless you want to miss distances and knock poles all over the place...to not walk a cross country course would be a death wish for sure.


We only ever did local shows, nongetting past local shows so no need to waste time walking the course. We won many trophies and rossettes. As for crufts they walked the course dogless and still knocked jumps off and told the dog to go the wrong way through the tunnel. So not much point walking the agility course first.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

danielled said:


> We only ever did local shows, nongetting past local shows so no need to waste time walking the course. We won many trophies and rossettes. As for crufts they walked the course dogless and still knocked jumps off and told the dog to go the wrong way through the tunnel. So not much point walking the agility course first.


Well yes there is point in doing it. Just because mistakes were made it doesn't mean that there was no point in preparing. I imagine Holly and I will make plenty of mistakes on Saturday, but hopefully a few less for seeing the course in advance.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

danielled said:


> We only ever did local shows, nongetting past local shows so no need to waste time walking the course. We won many trophies and rossettes. As for crufts they walked the course dogless and still knocked jumps off and told the dog to go the wrong way through the tunnel. So not much point walking the agility course first.


The time i didn't walk one of the courses at my races, I crashed. Go figure.

If mistakes were made after walking it, imagine the calamity if they hadn't!
Wasting time... who's time are they wasting? Their own? Far from it. Yours? Perhaps you'd could get out there and show your stuff at that level of competition, hmm?


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2018)

Sairy said:


> Well yes there is point in doing it. Just because mistakes were made it doesn't mean that there was no point in preparing. I imagine Holly and I will make plenty of mistakes on Saturday, but hopefully a few less for seeing the course in advance.


Best of luck on saturday. Walking the course first doesn't mean mistakes won't happen.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

danielled said:


> Best of luck on saturday.


Thanks 



danielled said:


> Walking the course first doesn't mean mistakes won't happen.


Isn't that what I said anyway? I can say with a good degree of certainty we, like many others, will make our fair share of mistakes, unless both Holly and I have a visit from a magic fairy who sprinkles fairy dust all over us prior to the competition. The point is that walking the course first (or in our case watching someone else walk the course) reduces the chance of mistakes and gives you the best chance possible.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

danielled said:


> We only ever did local shows, nongetting past local shows so no need to waste time walking the course. We won many trophies and rossettes. As for crufts they walked the course dogless and still knocked jumps off and told the dog to go the wrong way through the tunnel. So not much point walking the agility course first.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

OOOOOOOH The Bouv who won the Group in 2016 has managed to take the Breed again this year 

Still cheering on Team Merrybear as Elsa carries their name in her pedigree


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Just put this on. There's a sob story. WTF? I have missed the dogs?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

And now I have a message across the middle of the screen. 'Video was interrupted. The streamer stopped streaming'. No it didn't. I'm watching people walk the course now.

ETA: got rid of that by pausing and playing.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Not watching live as im at work but just seen a clip on facebook of the little girl with the staffie doing agility .... awww made my eyes leak a little


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Mirandashell said:


> And now I have a message across the middle of the screen. 'Video was interrupted. The streamer stopped streaming'. No it didn't. I'm watching people walk the course now.
> 
> ETA: got rid of that by pausing and playing.


I've got the same message


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Thanks @Mirandashell I used your tip of pausing and the annoying message has gone.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Just watching the agility that's started. That little Cavalier has stolen my heart. What a sweet, steady, girl. And 10 years old did they say?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

My favourite was the JRT. Barked the whole way round!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

The focus and concentration of these collies before they start is amazing. The first one was almost completely still.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Swedish handler there was a bit of alright


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

True! Shame the dog chose the the tunnel though. He was going at a heck of a speed!


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

What are you competing in @Sairy ?

And do you know what time? I'm going to try and make sure I watch you (if the livestream shows it!)


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> True! Shame the dog chose the the tunnel though. He was going at a heck of a speed!


I know. Such a shame.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Animallover26 said:


> What are you competing in @Sairy ?
> 
> And do you know what time? I'm going to try and make sure I watch you (if the livestream shows it!)


I'm in the Special pre-begginers obedience stakes grand final on Saturday. Won't be on the live stream as I'm in the good citizens ring as opposed to the main arena. Will try to get OH to film it though


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Sairy said:


> I'm in the Special pre-begginers obedience stakes grand final on Saturday. Won't be on the live stream as I'm in the good citizens ring as opposed to the main arena. Will try to get OH to film it though


Oh, how exciting!!! Good luck


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Oh, the Pap. Such a shame. Just goes to show how overwhelming the environment can be though.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Sairy said:


> I'm in the Special pre-begginers obedience stakes grand final on Saturday. Won't be on the live stream as I'm in the good citizens ring as opposed to the main arena. Will try to get OH to film it though


Good Luck! I hope your OH can film it.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Dogloverlou said:


> Oh, the Pap. Such a shame. Just goes to show how overwhelming the environment can be though.


Yup. Made me feel a bit better though as it made me realise that no-one will judge me if my dog decides she's not in the mood on Saturday. It's nice that the crowd were so supportive.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Sairy said:


> Yup. Made me feel a bit better though as it made me realise that no-one will judge me if my dog decides she's not in the mood on Saturday. It's nice that the crowd were so supportive.


Oh absolutely not. It's just one of those things unfortunately. Like I said, Cash was slightly off his game last year. Just a tad overwhelmed with all the noise & chaos.

I think Holly will do well though. I have a good feeling about it


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2018)

@Sairy best of luck to you Saturday. Very exciting


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Thanks everyone!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Sairy said:


> Yup. Made me feel a bit better though as it made me realise that no-one will judge me if my dog decides she's not in the mood on Saturday. It's nice that the crowd were so supportive.


I think they all realise that if the dog doesn't want to, there's not a lot you can do about it.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Although .... for a split second I thought that judge was going to throw the dog over the first jump!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Yey! Flyball! Love this


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

It's unusual to see a Staffy in this, isn't it? The ABC is usually something a bit quicker like a whippet.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Sairy said:


> Thanks
> 
> Isn't that what I said anyway? I can say with a good degree of certainty we, like many others, will make our fair share of mistakes, unless both Holly and I have a visit from a magic fairy who sprinkles fairy dust all over us prior to the competition. The point is that walking the course first (or in our case watching someone else walk the course) reduces the chance of mistakes and gives you the best chance possible.


What are you in, @Sairy ? I'll make sure I watch.
Edited: Seen your other reply to the same question. I won't be able to watch, but I hope it goes well for you


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I liked Flyball better when the ball flew out of the box and the dog had to catch it, not just pick it up.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

The WM Police are breeding some nice looking GSDs. A lot firmer in the hips.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> The WM Police are breeding some nice looking GSDs. A lot firmer in the hips.


Hmm appearance can always be deceiving.

A lot of Working Cockers have atrocious hips but move 'ok' to the point that no one will hip score them. When in fact they're so high drive they work through the pain.

Be intrigued to see the hip scoring results of the WM Police - I'm a working GSD fan myself.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I have spoken to a K9 officer of the WMP and he said they are making a deliberate effort to breed GSDs with good hips themselves as they couldn't find enough dogs from other breeders. It started 5 years ago I think.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Doggy Dancing. I can just imagine George if I tried to do this with him! 

Me - Bibbidy bobbidy boo!
Him -


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Mirandashell said:


> Doggy Dancing. I can just imagine George if I tried to do this with him!
> 
> Me - Bibbidy bobbidy boo!
> Him -


Maybe you should give it a go 

Holly loves it when my OH and I dance around in the kitchen.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

It's really lovely watching the kids


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Sairy said:


> Yup. Made me feel a bit better though as it made me realise that no-one will judge me if my dog decides she's not in the mood on Saturday. It's nice that the crowd were so supportive.


Absolutely .... like kids, they like to show you up at the best possible moment too


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Westie Mum said:


> Absolutely .... like kids, they like to show you up at the best possible moment too


They really do. We had a great training session earlier and she did really well. I thought "if only you can do the same on Saturday!"


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

The GSD in this JW competition looks pretty good!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

What's a JW competition?


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas Newfie!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Pappychi said:


> Hmm appearance can always be deceiving.
> Be intrigued to see the hip scoring results of the WM Police - I'm a working GSD fan myself.


And if you are watching the Pastoral Group, you can see an immediate difference with the GSD being shown.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> What's a JW competition?


It was the Junior Warrant competition.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I don't know what that is.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

Just watched on catch up, bit worrying they didnt show the gsds back end at all. 

From what i saw it looked better than last year. But censoring what everyone sees of a dog isnt the way to fix the problem highlighted last year


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Apollo2012 said:


> Just watched on catch up, bit worrying they didnt show the gsds back end at all.
> 
> From what i saw it looked better than last year. But censoring what everyone sees of a dog isnt the way to fix the problem highlighted last year


I was watching some of the GSDs showing today at the breed ring and overall they looked much better I thought. Though after staring at terveurens for the preceding 30 minutes I had to recalibrate to the confirmation of the GSDs. 

I was sitting near to the komondor benches and at one point all I could see was a shag pile rug effect of lots of them all laying next to each other flat out  wish I'd taken a picture. The effect was great. It was sort of like this without the women lying on top...


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2018)

I will miss some livestreaming today as got an appointment at the eye hospital this morning and got my carer today too so please could one of you tell me what I have missed?


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

danielled said:


> I will miss some livestreaming today as got an appointment at the eye hospital this morning and got my carer today too so please could one of you tell me what I have missed?


If you go onto the crufts website you can see the itinerary in the main arena so will be able to see what is happening


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm watching the Good Citizen display and it's quite funny. There's BCs and GSDs who haven't taken their eyes off their handler. There's Labradors that are scanning the ground for food and there's various terriers who are just trotting along cos they are on a lead. And a greyhound that looks like it could do with a lie down!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I do not understand why anyone tries to do Temptation Alley with Labs! Unless it's for the comedy value.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Mirandashell said:


> I do not understand why anyone tries to do Temptation Alley with Labs! Unless it's for the comedy value.


Goldens place a high value on food too


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Siskin said:


> Goldens place a high value on food too


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious that made me laugh! The comedy ones are the best, I know it's not the point but the dog always looks like it doesn't know whether to eat or play or eat something else! No doubt this would be Teddy.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Teddy-dog said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious that made me laugh! The comedy ones are the best, I know it's not the point but the dog always looks like it doesn't know whether to eat or play or eat something else! No doubt this would be Teddy.


It would certainly be Isla:Hilarious


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I've seen that video before and it is hilarious but what possesses the dog's owner to think they can distract their dog from a plate of sausages is beyond me.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Rescue Agility! I remember the Jack Russel from last year. Never seen a dog having so much fun!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

And there he goes! Into the crowd!


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Mirandashell said:


> Rescue Agility! I remember the Jack Russel from last year. Never seen a dog having so much fun!


Ahh I'm gutted I'm missing it! At work and about to come off lunch so can't watch


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> I've seen that video before and it is hilarious but what possesses the dog's owner to think they can distract their dog from a plate of sausages is beyond me.


Lots of dogs can do temptation alley quite well (labs and goldens included) but the atmosphere and distraction level at Crufts is unlike anything most dogs haven't experienced before so any training can go out the window ( the pap in agility was a perfect example).
I couldn't guarantee Thai would recall through that at Crufts, and Thai's impulse control is superb.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Loving the Segugio doing agility! She got into in by the end.
I'm on my lunch break waiting for the agility heats at 2pm.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2018)

Mirandashell said:


> Rescue Agility! I remember the Jack Russel from last year. Never seen a dog having so much fun!


He was funny wasn't he last year.


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## AmyRedd (Nov 9, 2015)

We watched the medium agility final this morning while we were there. Specifically because there was a beddie competing. Had high hopes..... she totally lost her head haha typical beddie. Was very comical but I feel bad for her owner as she’d been training really hard for it


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I like watching the Terriers cos they show real terrier attitude when being manhandled by the judge.

That mini EBT - Here, what you doing putting your hand on there?! Gerroff! Getoutofitya!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

That's a lovely Parsons JRT


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Lovely Scottie. What a show dog.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

That Irish Wolfhound doesn't look very big.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I didn't know Afghans came in black.


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## AmyRedd (Nov 9, 2015)

The Bedlington that won best of breed was a lovely dog. I don’t know why they never get placed in the terrier group  the judges always seem to favour the more conventional terriers


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Okay so I was Team Elkhound but gotta say what a stunning Whippet.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Yayyy I am fully team whippet! Such a lovely bitch.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2018)

I'd love to watch Crufts but Star barks at the tv like she's possessed. The little git.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

spamvicious said:


> I'd love to watch Crufts but Star barks at the tv like she's possessed. The little git.


Mute???


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2018)

Whoa hang on Alan what happened with your counting lol. I noticed Olly did that thing he did last year again where he flew off the A frame lol. Only to have another dog do an Olly after lol.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Mirandashell said:


> That's a lovely Parsons JRT


Those are two separate Breeds.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

I am so glad the Border Collie won Pastoral. One of my favourite breeds.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2018)

Teddy-dog said:


> Mute???


haha no if she sees any animal on tv she barks her head off. I can't even watch supervet


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Didn't get to watch any streaming today  Had to watch the terrier group on the main highlights which are so edited it's just not enjoyable for me that way. Will have to watch the full length version on YT in the next few days, but there was quite a few terriers I really liked.
Missed the Hound group. Who won that one?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

The Whippet


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> Didn't get to watch any streaming today  Had to watch the terrier group on the main highlights which are so edited it's just not enjoyable for me that way. Will have to watch the full length version on YT in the next few days, but there was quite a few terriers I really liked.
> Missed the Hound group. Who won that one?


Tartan Tease the Whippet.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

spamvicious said:


> haha no if she sees any animal on tv she barks her head off. I can't even watch supervet


My Miss used to be like that. Barked at ANY animal on TV so I always had to watch anything animal related online instead. Now she's old with failing sight she barely ever acknowledges what's on TV. Sad in some respects, but comes with it's advantages lol.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Mirandashell said:


> The Whippet





Pappychi said:


> Tartan Tease the Whippet.


Thanks both. Will catch up on that tomorrow too hopefully.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2018)

spamvicious said:


> haha no if she sees any animal on tv she barks her head off. I can't even watch supervet


Buddy will bark at anything on tv not just animals. Yesterday he barked at crufts livestreaming when I got home. Agility and flyball really make him go bonkers. I would get him into flyball but he won't fetch lol.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2018)

danielled said:


> Buddy will bark at anything on tv not just animals. Yesterday he barked at crufts livestreaming when I got home. Agility and flyball really make him go bonkers. I would get him into flyball but he won't fetch lol.


haha Buddy and Star would get along well then.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2018)

Dogloverlou said:


> My Miss used to be like that. Barked at ANY animal on TV so I always had to watch anything animal related online instead. Now she's old with failing sight she barely ever acknowledges what's on TV. Sad in some respects, but comes with it's advantages lol.


Aww poor miss. I need to work out how to stop her barking. It's weird though if she's sat on my lap she doesn't bark but if she's on the floor she goes crazy so it must be fear.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm watching the preparations for the Flyball. The dogs aren't even in the ring and you can hear them barking! I hope it's a big space out the back there.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Loving the Akita winner earlier!


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2018)

spamvicious said:


> haha Buddy and Star would get along well then.


Lol me and you better not get our dogs together then. Buddy has this really high pitched bark. Imagine if Buddy and Star got together.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2018)

spamvicious said:


> Aww poor miss. I need to work out how to stop her barking. It's weird though if she's sat on my lap she doesn't bark but if she's on the floor she goes crazy so it must be fear.


Even if Buddy is on my knee he still goes bonkers.


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## Phoenix Rising (Jan 25, 2016)

Roo was beautiful, hope she wins, the papillon was sweet too. I'm surprised they put THREE black poodles through that all looked the same but different sizes when there was lots of other beautiful different looking dogs too that deserved to have gone through.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Phoenix Rising said:


> THREE black poodles through that all looked the same but different sizes


That's the whole point of the three sizes though...literally the only real difference should be their size and I thought all 3 were fab dogs that deserved to be placed because they all showed their little pants off in that ring.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Just saw Mabel in the Agility. Little JRT x Staffy and an absolutely gorgeous dog!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Just watching the Good Citizens Display Team. There's a woman who looks like she's in her sixties and about 5 foot tall and she walking a St Bernard! His back is level with her waist. Very impressive.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Oooh agility starting very soon!


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## sesmo (Mar 6, 2016)

Does anyone know how the inter regional rally went? I know someone on one of the teams but can't find the results. Didn't get to watch it as I had shopping to do


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## Phoenix Rising (Jan 25, 2016)

StormyThai said:


> That's the whole point of the three sizes though...literally the only real difference should be their size and I thought all 3 were fab dogs that deserved to be placed because they all showed their little pants off in that ring.


yeah but they're still all poodles and all black, its not even like one was a different colour so the poodle has 3 times as many chance of getting through to best of breed as the others where only 1 dog is representing their breed! Talk about an unfair advantage!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Phoenix Rising said:


> yeah but they're still all poodles and all black, its not even like one was a different colour so the poodle has 3 times as many chance of getting through to best of breed as the others where only 1 dog is representing their breed! Talk about an unfair advantage!


I'm afraid this doesn't make any sense at all.

How can a Poodle have 3 chances of being Best of Breed? Each individual size has to compete, just as does every dog there.

There are several varieties of Dachshund, separated on size, four varieties of Belgian Shepherd separated on coat type. Do you believe they have an unfair advantage too?

All 3 of those Poodles were excellent specimens of their Breed and they deserve the same chance as every other dog in the Group.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

I'm not a fan of the show clip that poodles get, but I thought those poodles were great dogs. The Toy especially caught my eye but they were performing brilliantly. I usually get irritated by the poodles being picked every year but I thought they looked great this year.
The Akita was stunning though.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

That's Andrew and Betty doing the Canicross!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I thought it was, fantastic that he discovered Cani Ross on the to program and has continued


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Canicross


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Good oh Phillippa Williams. Great trainer of gundogs


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Siskin said:


> Good oh Phillippa Williams. Great trainer of gundogs


She's brilliant! Challenging the old gundog trainer stereotype. Really enjoying this display


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Beautifully fit labs and goldies too.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

She is really good! I don't know much about gundogs but these are having a great time!


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Sarah H said:


> Beautifully fit labs and goldies too.


Not a single Flabrador amongst them!


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

She used to live in my area years ago and ran amongst other things, agility training during the summer. I took Jodi there each summer for several years until her crusciate went. Phillippa is just such fun to train with, makes everything fun and not serious, but she achieves good results. She moved north after her marriage broke down, I was sorry to see her go.
Her dogs are just fantastic, they watch her constantly and obey instantly without any shouting, just a word or brief hand movement and the dogs love obeying her
Great to see the Clumber spaniel too, lovely looking pup


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Siskin said:


> She used to live in my area years ago and ran amongst other things, agility training during the summer. I took Jodi there each summer for several years until her crusciate went. Phillippa is just such fun to train with, makes everything fun and not serious, but she achieves good results. She moved north after her marriage broke down, I was sorry to see her go.
> Her dogs are just fantastic, they watch her constantly and obey instantly without any shouting, just a word or brief hand movement and the dogs love obeying her
> Great to see the Clumber spaniel too, lovely looking pup


She was doing a shortened version of this display in one of the small rings when I went on Thursday and made a lot of sense. She was great explaining things too. Her dogs were lovely though one of the goldies decided to spend most of the session being fussed by an audience member whilst sitting on her lap


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Puppies!


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2018)

Siskin said:


> She used to live in my area years ago and ran amongst other things, agility training during the summer. I took Jodi there each summer for several years until her crusciate went. Phillippa is just such fun to train with, makes everything fun and not serious, but she achieves good results. She moved north after her marriage broke down, I was sorry to see her go.
> Her dogs are just fantastic, they watch her constantly and obey instantly without any shouting, just a word or brief hand movement and the dogs love obeying her
> Great to see the Clumber spaniel too, lovely looking pup


How very cool! 
I've always enjoyed watching her work dogs, bet it was fun to work right with her


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

What is this on right now?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

It's the Best Puppy competition. All the puppies that won their area competitions


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

And I want that Jack Russell!


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Fsmos dad Sonic ran in both the Agility Champs Round 1 and 2 earlier this morning


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Mirandashell said:


> Just watching the Good Citizens Display Team. There's a woman who looks like she's in her sixties and about 5 foot tall and she walking a St Bernard! His back is level with her waist. Very impressive.


She was one of our competitors at Discover Dogs - I've seen her a few times.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Sairy said:


> She was one of our competitors at Discover Dogs - I've seen her a few times.


She did well with that dog, considering he could eat her in two bites. What's she like off camera?


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

Mirandashell said:


> She did well with that dog, considering he could eat her in two bites. What's she like off camera?


She handles him very well. They seem to have a good bond and she comes across as a patient, loving owner.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Oh that's good. He is a lovely dog. Apart from the slobber!


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## Phoenix Rising (Jan 25, 2016)

Rafa said:


> I'm afraid this doesn't make any sense at all.
> 
> How can a Poodle have 3 chances of being Best of Breed? Each individual size has to compete, just as does every dog there.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying they weren't all excellent specimens but its meant to be best of BREED .. and once they've reached the stage they are going to be chosen as best of breed, whether they are Toy, Miniature or Giant they are all Poodles, so the judge should have picked one of them to represent poodles and yes this should also apply to dachshunds cos they're still all dachshunds whether they're tiny, big, smooth or wire haired.and any other breed that comes in more than one colour or size.

What happened to them anyway I thought they'd all gone through? I'm watching it now and haven't seen them in the line-up?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

What the heck is this fashion for sopranos singing _Nessun Dorma_? Opera singing is unlike any other singing. ND is pitched for a tenor voice. Sopranos should not sing it any more than a tenor should sing _Vissi D'Arte_. It sounds bloody awful and the sooner they stop it the better, IMO.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

What's going on in the ring?


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## Phoenix Rising (Jan 25, 2016)

what happened when the woman ran off with the whippet and everyone was running behind them?


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## AmyRedd (Nov 9, 2015)

So glad the whippet won but what on Earth just happened???


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I thought someone had run out of the crowd and she grabbed her dog and moved out of the way. But I didn't see it properly.


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

I wondered what on earth was going on when she grabbed her dog & ran! All I could see was a pile up in the ring. Glad the pointer got reserve, such gorgeous dogs.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Someone ran into the arena

Security acted quickly
Well done to Tease''s owner for reacting so quickly and Chilli''s for keeping her calm


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## fernlady (Feb 27, 2013)

Rewound & watched again, looks like protestors.


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## Phoenix Rising (Jan 25, 2016)

I'm not sure she was just putting the whippet on the box then someone ran off with the trophy she followed (other person with pointer stayed put) and all these people seemed to be running behind them? .. Presenter didn't really explain


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## Phoenix Rising (Jan 25, 2016)

oops I need to type faster..lol! Did wonder if the Akita had got loose and thats why the woman picked up the whippet and ran off! but couldn't understand why they'd run off with the big trophy too!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Phoenix Rising said:


> I'm not sure she was just putting the whippet on the box then someone ran off with the trophy she followed (other person with pointer stayed put) and all these people seemed to be running behind them? .. Presenter didn't really explain


someone ran onto the arena 
I expect they didn't want to publicise it more which is why it wasn't talked abut. 
They quickly removed the trophy
Security stope the invaders
Tease's owner moved her to safety
Chilli's owner kept her calm


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## fernlady (Feb 27, 2013)

I think the trophy was probably grabbed by staff. Security did an excellent job & sorted quickly.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Any way congratulations to Tease and Chilli 
I was routing for the Akita but happy with the final 2 
I thought it was a good final line up no over exaggerations


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Such quality dogs in the line up. I really, really, liked the Akita. But Reserve & BIS were very worthy winners. 

It did look like protesters who ran on to the floor, but for a heart stopping moment when you could clearly hear a loud kind of thunderous stampede? I thought it was an explosion!


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Phoenix Rising said:


> I'm not saying they weren't all excellent specimens but its meant to be best of BREED .. and once they've reached the stage they are going to be chosen as best of breed, whether they are Toy, Miniature or Giant they are all Poodles, so the judge should have picked one of them to represent poodles and yes this should also apply to dachshunds cos they're still all dachshunds whether they're tiny, big, smooth or wire haired.and any other breed that comes in more than one colour or size.
> 
> What happened to them anyway I thought they'd all gone through? I'm watching it now and haven't seen them in the line-up?


In your logic then over the poodles...then the gun dog group should be pretty small after all if we lump all the retrievers as one, the pointers as one the setters as one and then the spaniels...

Let's not forget put the Norwich and Norfolk terrier back together...

The pinschers...which one should we choose?...

Dachshund were just an example and there will be reasons why hair and says matter it's not always just a beauty aspect of you look into origins!


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## winterrose (Dec 30, 2016)

Just catching up! I didn’t watch the final judging but the Agility Championship Final was breathtaking! I also watched Mary Ray’s last performance. It’s the end of an era and I’m sad to see that she won’t be performing anymore.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Fleur said:


> someone ran onto the arena
> I expect they didn't want to publicise it more which is why it wasn't talked abut.
> They quickly removed the trophy
> Security stope the invaders
> ...


Just to clarify..as I used rewind to find the info...at least 2 people ran into the arena! One nearly got towards the group left standing....one ran past the Best in show Stand but got taken down immediately with a stunning dive by security.

I was hoping they removed the trophy to clock the culprits on the head...but unfortunately not!


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

lullabydream said:


> Just to clarify..as I used rewind to find the info...at least 2 people ran into the arena! One nearly got towards the group left standing....one ran past the Best in show Stand but got taken down immediately with a stunning dive by security.
> 
> I was hoping they removed the trophy to clock the culprits on the head...but unfortunately not!


No doubt a bunch of PETA nutters


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> No doubt a bunch of PETA nutters


No idea...but luckily they wasted their money getting in!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Phoenix Rising said:


> I'm not saying they weren't all excellent specimens but its meant to be best of BREED .. and once they've reached the stage they are going to be chosen as best of breed, whether they are Toy, Miniature or Giant they are all Poodles, so the judge should have picked one of them to represent poodles and yes this should also apply to dachshunds cos they're still all dachshunds whether they're tiny, big, smooth or wire haired.and any other breed that comes in more than one colour or size.
> 
> What happened to them anyway I thought they'd all gone through? I'm watching it now and haven't seen them in the line-up?


Thank heaven you're not a judge.

Please educate yourself.

Should the Miniature, Standard and Giant Schnauzer all be classed as one Breed and the Belgian, German and all the other Shepherds be one Breed?

Your observation that once they've reached the stage of being chosen Best of Breed they should all be lumped together is ridiculous.

Toy, Miniature and Standard Poodles are all judged separately. The judges of each size then elect their Best of Breed.

You clearly have no idea how it works, so I would stop bandying outlandish opinions if I were you.

You're sounding very silly, to be honest.


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## Phoenix Rising (Jan 25, 2016)

lullabydream said:


> Just to clarify..as I used rewind to find the info...at least 2 people ran into the arena! One nearly got towards the group left standing....one ran past the Best in show Stand but got taken down immediately with a stunning dive by security.
> 
> I was hoping they removed the trophy to clock the culprits on the head...but unfortunately not!


wow didn't spot that I'm watching it on +1 to see the end again.


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## Marcia (Mar 10, 2009)

Well done to Tease, I was routing for the collie and the scottie but all of them were worthy winners.

Shocked at those people for trying to spoil it


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## cava14 una (Oct 21, 2008)

http://www.crufts.org.uk/?utm_source=kc-website&utm_medium=carousel&utm_campaign=crufts

At about 8minutes from end


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## Phoenix Rising (Jan 25, 2016)

Rafa said:


> Thank heaven you're not a judge.
> 
> Please educate yourself.
> 
> ...


I still wouldn't have filled 3 places with 3 dogs all the same breed and colour when there was so many beautiful dogs who also deserved a chance to be best of breed.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Phoenix Rising said:


> I still wouldn't have filled 3 places with 3 dogs all the same breed and colour when there was so many beautiful dogs who also


If they were stunning examples of the breed why not?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Phoenix Rising said:


> I still wouldn't have filled 3 places with 3 dogs all the same breed and colour when there was so many beautiful dogs who also deserved a chance to be best of breed.


But a miniture poodle is not a toy poodle, nor a standard poodle they are separate breeds within the poodle name, Same as flatcoat retrievers are not the same as golden retrievers  Colour has nothing to do with conformation or how fit for function they are so not sure why them all being black is a problem tbh.
All the dogs there were beautiful, but some fit their breed standard in the judges eye better than others hence why they placed as they did...When it comes to best in show it is all about the breed standard and how well the dog shows on the day.

I don't think it is fair to say the other poodles shouldn't have placed because they were all the same colour and a poodle is a poodle.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

winterrose said:


> Just catching up! I didn't watch the final judging but the Agility Championship Final was breathtaking! I also watched Mary Ray's last performance. It's the end of an era and I'm sad to see that she won't be performing anymore.


 I saw her perform at Discover dog . She was brilliant.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Statement from the KC about the incident at BIS announcement:

"Statement regarding incident at Crufts 2018:

A spokesperson from Crufts, said:

"It appears that protestors from PETA gained unauthorised access to the ring in the main arena at Crufts, and in doing so scared the dogs and put the safety of both dogs and people at risk in a hugely irresponsible way. Our main priority at the moment is the wellbeing of the dogs that were in the ring, who are being looked after by their owners and show officials. The NEC Group have extensive security procedures in place at Crufts and we, along with the NEC Group, will be reviewing what happened as a matter of urgency.""


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## Chippers (Jun 16, 2015)

It was PETA, crufts have put out a statement on their Twitter. The RSPCA Twitter has been tweeting their displeasure at crufts and breeding of dogs over the whole weekend


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

Just seen what happened. The guy was holding a banner saying crufts: canine eugenics (gotten from this link http://metro.co.uk/2018/03/11/drama-crufts-protester-storms-arena-presentation-best-show-7379454/). What a shame teases moment was ruined by that. Hope the handlers weren't to shaken up by it either.

Bit worrying how he managed to get past security though!


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2018)

lullabydream said:


> Let's not forget put the Norwich and Norfolk terrier back together...


Oh dear gawd please let's not, I just figured out how to tell them apart, norWich has pointy ears like a witch's hat!


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

On the walkway tunnel that leads to the genting arena there were signs saying that bags would be searched at random. When I visited on Thursday I didn't see any bag searching going on on my trips too and from the arena. Of course the best in show might have had increased security and bag searches as it was a ticketed event.

It was a shame that the whippets owner had to have her moment marred by being frightened and having to protect her dog. Watching the footage it is interesting seeing the reactions of all the people around the podium when slowing down the footage. The whippet owner protecting her dog by running away with her, the pointer owner reassuring her anxious dog and the judge and the official next to her didn't on the face of it look too worried. Lots if booing from the audience.

I hope retrospectively they were able to enjoy their moment of celebration.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Phoenix Rising said:


> I still wouldn't have filled 3 places with 3 dogs all the same breed and colour when there was so many beautiful dogs who also deserved a chance to be best of breed.


And that would be why you're not a judge.

Please, educate yourself before you lecture others on how it should be done.

And by the way. The judging was the Group not Best of Breed.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2018)

Phoenix Rising said:


> I still wouldn't have filled 3 places with 3 dogs all the same breed and colour when there was so many beautiful dogs who also deserved a chance to be best of breed.


They all did get a chance. 
Miniature poodles are not the same breed as Standard poodles any more than a labrador retriever is the same breed as a flatcoat retriever, or a springer spaniel is the same breed as a cocker spaniel.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

kittih said:


> Of course the best in show might have had increased security and bag searches as it was a ticketed event.


The 'banner' was only A4 sized so he could have had it down his trousers. So unless they do full body searches they wouldn't have found it.


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

I didn't get my bag searched when there on Friday. We entered through hall 5 and didn't see any security. The stewards just looked at our wristbands and waved us through. Was there security in the genting arena? I didn't go in so I don't know. Seen lots of calls on fb and Twitter for tighter security


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Someone I know went today and they were searched this afternoon going into the main arena.

This was their message


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

I guess any searches would have been looking for weapons rather than a small banner that could have been hidden discretely anywhere. Though it was unclear what the person who got caught towards the back of the arena was planning to do.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I only saw one person. Was there two?


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

There was a big pile of people behind the whippet lady ie between the winners stand and the lineup of the remaining dogs at the back and a second pile up in front of the arena where the press were sitting near the red carpet bit at the front which would have been for the man with the sign. If you play and pause the video in the above link you end up seeing both piles with the red carpet man being right at the end a little before Claire balding interviews the whippet owner.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Mirandashell said:


> I only saw one person. Was there two?


We were there. There was two.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Ah! All I saw was the winner's eyes go big and a blur of movement go past as she grabbed her dog. Then a pair of white gloves picked up the trophy while a ruck was going on in the background


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

Mirandashell said:


> I only saw one person. Was there two?


If you look on the metro article I posted a bit further up there's a video someone took and posted to Twitter. It shows the first guy being tackled (think it's the one that ran past tease and handler) whilst the other guy is running around the front waving the banner


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I only read the article. I didn't watch the video as I assumed it was the same as I'd already seen


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

Mirandashell said:


> I only read the article. I didn't watch the video as I assumed it was the same as I'd already seen


It was taken by someone in the audience


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Cool. Thank you


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

kittih said:


> I guess any searches would have been looking for weapons rather than a small banner that could have been hidden discretely anywhere. Though it was unclear what the person who got caught towards the back of the arena was planning to do.


I think the one ran to the back to draw the security team so the one at the front could make their "statement"
Bag searches couldn't of stopped this - the question that will be asked is how they got ovwr the barriers and made it onto the arena.


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

What a stupid banner anyways!

_*Eugenics:*
the science of improving a population by controlled breeding to increase the occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics_
Um... yes?
May as well have said "CRUFTS: THERES DOGS!!!!!!"


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Just had a look at news and social media...

Shame for Tease's owner that I think her win by newspapers is focusing more on the idiots invading the ring ..their win just seem to be reported as an after thought...

All though the other side of the coin with social media...the comments on Tease's owner picking her up, to protect her is seemingly running riot too...so showing the fact these so called owners who the idiot sabs think they are callous..shows actually they care about their dogs as it came across so natural for the owner to protect her dog....and rightly so.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

BlueJay said:


> What a stupid banner anyways!
> 
> _*Eugenics:*
> the science of improving a population by controlled breeding to increase the occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics_
> ...


It has been connected with Nazism and the Final Solution and all that stuff so it carries very negative connotations.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Eugenics has always been part and parcel of dog breeding...

Just because a word has connotations shouldn't mean it should not be used in its correct context.

Study anything about genetics and eugenics will be there.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

I know. But this is PETA we are talking about. They aren't using it in nice scientific breeding way. To animal rights activists, their way of using it makes sense. Especially as there are still major problems with the KC standard of many breeds.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

There are even bigger problems being caused by Backyard Breeders.

These fools tonight were absolutely targeting the wrong audience.

I hope, at least, they spend a night in cells for their stupidity.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Mirandashell said:


> the KC standard of many breeds


The Kennel Club do not make the Breed Standards.

The Breed Clubs do.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

The KC do not make the standard...the breed clubs do.

Let's be fair...Not everyone will get the connotation...and after all it's PETA...who jump in with eyes wide closed.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

lullabydream said:


> The KC do not make the standard...the breed clubs do.
> 
> Let's be fair...Not everyone will get the connotation...and after all it's PETA...who jump in with eyes wide closed.


Well whichever. But you can see the point I'm making about how PETA see it. And I think most people will get the connotation. Most of us have learnt about what the Nazis did. Eugenics does not equal responsible breeding in the opinion of the general public.

As for their target, they weren't aiming it at the people watching Crufts. They were aiming it at all the people who will read newspaper tomorrow morning or watch the news tonight. The ones who have been complaining on the RSPCA twitter feed. And the ones who don't watch Crufts.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Crufts gets bad press every year...so what's new.

Haven't I already stated the media are more bothered about what happened at Crufts, than the winner...so I don't know why that needed to be said.

I stand by those who are educated...will laugh at PETAs Eugenics take...as it didn't need a banner to state the obvious...they will read it in context.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

And I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I think PETA has far more passion than sense. But it's not those educated about dog breeding that are the target. 

The BBC dropped Crufts due to concerns about the conformation of some breeds, didn't they? Protest can work


----------



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

As much as I am gutted that Teasel had her moment stolen, I find it great that the news isn't filled with an extreme example of -insert breed here-
I wasn't a fan of the Peke but even he wasn't as extreme as some have been, the Bulldog looked good for a Bulldog and from what I saw the GSD wasn't bad either  

PETA just looked stupid IMHO


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Mirandashell said:


> But it's not those educated about dog breeding that are the target.


But what happened tonight was exactly that.

The majority of those who breed to show care about their breed, try to improve and are aware of inherent problems within that breed.

Targeting such an audience is stupidity. Let them go and demonstrate at the numerous Puppy Farms we have in this Country or against the Puppy Dealers.

Aiming their protests at an audience made up largely of those who really do care is just misguided and pointless.


----------



## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

I thought the BBC dropped Crufts more to do with that 'undercover' documentary into dog breeds...that was either a slight biased in some respect...as all documentarys are...

I don't think PETAs protest will work...just looked pathetic

After all the scandal after previous Crufts such as dogs allegedly being poisoned, and a group of dogs being stolen after one, won best of breed to name a few...hopefully PETA is the worse thing to happen this year...


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Mirandashell said:


> And I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I think PETA has far more passion than sense. But it's not those educated about dog breeding that are the target.
> 
> The BBC dropped Crufts due to concerns about the conformation of some breeds, didn't they? Protest can work


You know what I find a little odd?

I have been following this thread today and you have been a prolific poster, saying how much you were enjoying it and admiring all the dogs participating.

Suddenly, because there is a misguided protest, you have switched camps and now Crufts is bad.

I would wonder which camp you're in.


----------



## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

lullabydream said:


> I thought the BBC dropped Crufts more to do with that 'undercover' documentary into dog breeds...that was either a slight biased in some respect...as all documentarys are...
> 
> I don't think PETAs protest will work...just looked pathetic
> 
> After all the scandal after previous Crufts such as dogs allegedly being poisoned, and a group of dogs being stolen after one, won best of breed to name a few...hopefully PETA is the worse thing to happen this year...


Oh I agree it was pathetic. No argument there. And you are right about the BBC, I went and checked and it was the documentary. So I was wrong on that one.

I was just explaining the use of the word eugenics on the poster after someone said it was a silly word to use.

As for PETA, I remember when they were a voice for good and had a lot of support from the public. Quite how they became the laughing stock they are now I don't know.

And as for dog breeding ... I still think there's a lot of problems that need sorting but there are improvements. As already said, the bulldog looked a lot better than many I've seen. But it takes time. And there's still a lot of dogs I think are ill-conformed. Which is why I watch very little of the showing and mostly the display teams, the flyball and the agility.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

At least though...the KC is trying to persuade breed clubs to up the anti on health...

There is no regulations on cross breeds.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

lullabydream said:


> At least though...the KC is trying to persuade breed clubs to up the anti on health...
> 
> There is no regulations on cross breeds.


Totally agree. Cross breeds are a whole other swamp. But not really relevant to the point. I am glad that the KC are at least trying to improve the situation uncovered in that documentary. A lot of that was shocking.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

That documentary was supposed to shock...

It was also full of bias...to get the viewer to extrapolate...all breeders are like this, and all pedigrees have dire health problems. 

Poor journalism in my opinion.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> As much as I am gutted that Teasel had her moment stolen, I find it great that the news isn't filled with an extreme example of -insert breed here-
> I wasn't a fan of the Peke but even he wasn't as extreme as some have been, the Bulldog looked good for a Bulldog and from what I saw the GSD wasn't bad either
> 
> PETA just looked stupid IMHO


Yes they did. I contacted them politely explaining how daft they looked.


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## MissSpitzMum (Dec 4, 2017)

Not a fan of PETA, and I don't think they should have upset the dogs like that (poor Tease looks rattled) but I can understand the protests crufts does recieve. If people truly cared about their dogs, then pretty much all brachy breeds, short legged breeds, overly exagerrated breeds would be outcrossed immediately. They can try and improve their breeds health as much as they can, but in the end their dogs nose has still dissapeared into its face and suffers from lifelong complications because of it. It is still about putting 'purity' of bloodlines over the well being of the dogs in many cases, which I personally feel is wrong. The breeders have the power to get together and say enough is enough, the breed standards need to change... But they don't and I can only imagine that is because looks are being placed over health.

I watch crufts for the activity, where healthy dogs are having the time of their lives. The show ring often makes me shudder.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

MissSpitzMum said:


> but I can understand the protests crufts does recieve.


But Crufts doesn't set the rules on breed standards though. That's down to each individual breed club.


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

MissSpitzMum said:


> Not a fan of PETA, and I don't think they should have upset the dogs like that (poor Tease looks rattled) but I can understand the protests crufts does recieve. If people truly cared about their dogs, then pretty much all brachy breeds, short legged breeds, overly exagerrated breeds would be outcrossed immediately. They can try and improve their breeds health as much as they can, but in the end their dogs nose has still dissapeared into its face and suffers from lifelong complications because of it. It is still about putting 'purity' of bloodlines over the well being of the dogs in many cases, which I personally feel is wrong. The breeders have the power to get together and say enough is enough, the breed standards need to change... But they don't and I can only imagine that is because looks are being placed over health.
> 
> I watch crufts for the activity, where healthy dogs are having the time of their lives. The show ring often makes me shudder.


These problems aren't going to be solved by peta tactics though are They? I don't know what kind of logic they have thinking storming into the arena, scaring everyone and waving a stupid little banner around is going to help anything. All it did was get them tackled by security and most likely arrested. This is what really peeves me about them. They act oh so concerned but they don't do anything to actually help. Maybe they could offer some suggestions as to how breeding/breed standards could be improved for example. That would give them a lot more credibilty than this stunt. Basically everyone needs to work together if they want things to improve


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Mirandashell said:


> Oh I agree it was pathetic. No argument there. And you are right about the BBC, I went and checked and it was the documentary. So I was wrong on that one.
> 
> I was just explaining the use of the word eugenics on the poster after someone said it was a silly word to use.
> 
> ...


Not sure how old you are but I certainly cannot remember a time when PETA were a voice for good. They have always put out a load of totally untrue propaganda - in other words lies!


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Nettles said:


> But Crufts doesn't set the rules on breed standards though. That's down to each individual breed club.


It probably would have given the KC a better image if they had refused certain breeds to enter their shows if the breed standard allowed the dog to be breed without a muzzle, sloping back, legs getting to short etc.


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## Biffo (Mar 14, 2016)

As others have said the Kennel Club has no control over the breed standards, these are set by the breed clubs. The Kennel Club has funded research into brachycephalic obstructive airway syndrome at Cambridge Uni for several years and is part of the BOAS Working Group along with breed clubs, the RSPCA, Dogs Trust, the BVA, and others. This is according to the KC Chairman Simon Luxmoore in Our Dogs Crufts Classic 2018. He also said that the KC has no control over who breed clubs appoint as officers or their internal administration. He points out that the only people who can change a breed club are it's members.


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## Biffo (Mar 14, 2016)

I should add that my breed is not brachycephalic, no sloped back, no breeding for exaggerated appearance. It is not a breed that is monitored for health reasons, so I have no reason to support or condemn the KC on this.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

For the first time in my adult life i actually didnt watch the final last night, with it being Mothers Days (have it recorded to watch today) so of course i was quite shocked when i woke up this morning seeing what happened. 

I have only seen the short youtube clip though, so might be saying this completely out of turn here .... but the winners owner looked like she over-reacted just a little .... or is that just the way the short clip i've watched makes it look maybe. 

It looks like the guy had already ran past her and security was on top of him and then she picked the dog up and ran in the opposite direction while the other lady and her dog just stood there and waited for it to be over, litterally a few seconds. 

That said, without a doubt if it had been me and one of my dogs then i would have natually picked them up (i think it's a instant reaction for small dog owners regardless) but to run off ? 

Like i said, might be speaking completely out of turn here as i've only watched the online clips.


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## MissSpitzMum (Dec 4, 2017)

Nettles said:


> But Crufts doesn't set the rules on breed standards though. That's down to each individual breed club.


No, but they celebrate the standards.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Westie Mum said:


> For the first time in my adult life i actually didnt watch the final last night, with it being Mothers Days (have it recorded to watch today) so of course i was quite shocked when i woke up this morning seeing what happened.
> 
> I have only seen the short youtube clip though, so might be saying this completely out of turn here .... but the winners owner looked like she over-reacted just a little .... or is that just the way the short clip i've watched makes it look maybe.
> 
> ...


From what I've heard/seen. A woman ran past them towards the back (possibly to draw security to her) and then a guy jumped down and was showing a banner at the front, I think this is who she was reacting to, not the person who ran past her.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Westie Mum said:


> For the first time in my adult life i actually didnt watch the final last night, with it being Mothers Days (have it recorded to watch today) so of course i was quite shocked when i woke up this morning seeing what happened.
> 
> I have only seen the short youtube clip though, so might be saying this completely out of turn here .... but the winners owner looked like she over-reacted just a little .... or is that just the way the short clip i've watched makes it look maybe.
> 
> ...


I think like with anything it's a case of different people reacting differently to situations. She may well have assumed her dog as the winner was being targeted, which with the way of the world wouldn't be out of the question. You react on instinct


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Teddy-dog said:


> From what I've heard/seen. A woman ran past them towards the back (possibly to draw security to her) and then a guy jumped down and was showing a banner at the front, I think this is who she was reacting to, not the person who ran past her.


Ahhhh - now that would make sense if someone else was in front of her. The clips i've seen doesn't show that, just her running off after the event with the other lady and her dog just standing there, hence why it looks like an over-reaction a little.

It is a shame though, as her win will always be remembered by this


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Westie Mum said:


> Ahhhh - now that would make sense if someone else was in front of her. The clips i've seen doesn't show that, just her running off after the event with the other lady and her dog just standing there, hence why it looks like an over-reaction a little.
> 
> It is a shame though, as her win will always be remembered by this


Yeah there was two people, a woman that ran towards the back and a man at the front.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

labradrk said:


> Yeah there was two people, a woman that ran towards the back and a man at the front.


I'm guessing most of it wasn't even shown on the TV then either as they do tend to gloss over any issues.

Will have a better look on youtube at home later.


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## cava14 una (Oct 21, 2008)

It is on PETA Twitter page and is much more noisy than I realised from the Crufts video


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

She didnt run off though. She picked the dog up with a shocked look on her face and stepped away I think. It was all over in seconds.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

I also meant to say earlier aswell, that I am glad that the Scottie didn't win, purely because i dont think the handler should have been allowed to enter again after picking Knopa up by her tail when she won a few years ago, despite it being in the rules it's not allowed and being told during the breed judging not to do it, she then still did it after winning. 

There was also an animal rights nut job running on to the arena that night aswell if i remember rightly, but was overshowded by the bad handling.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

cava14 una said:


> It is on PETA Twitter page and is much more noisy than I realised from the Crufts video


I will try and find it later to watch.



Blitz said:


> She didnt run off though. She picked the dog up with a shocked look on her face and stepped away I think. It was all over in seconds.


Hard to tell on the clips being posted tbh, well the ones i've seen anyway.

I presume nothing was mentioned on the show afterwards ?


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2018)

I love how any Crufts (or Westminster here in the US) discussion eventually ends up interrupted by a PeTA side rant. 
I lost all respect (the little that I had) for PeTA with their stance on BSL and lobbying that pitbulls and related bull breeds are better off dead. They will never get my support on any issue with so much blood on their hands.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

MissSpitzMum said:


> No, but they celebrate the standards.


Celebrate the standards?

I don't know what that means.

The Breed Clubs submit the Standard to the Kennel Club for approval. If they have any concerns, they will notify the Breed Club and ask for the Standard to be amended.

The Kennel Club can not supervise the breeding of pups. They cannot be out there, approving every dog and bitch being bred from.

The individuals who could really bring about change are the Judges. If they did not place any dog with exaggerated features, the Breeders would soon snap to and Breed what the Judges are looking for.


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## MissSpitzMum (Dec 4, 2017)

Rafa said:


> Celebrate the standards?
> 
> I don't know what that means.
> 
> ...


What I mean is they celebrate the pedigree dog, which in itself isn't a bad thing. Except they also celebrate the pedigree dog that is naturally unhealthy, which I feel is a bad thing. They don't need to set the breed standards to refuse to take part in parading unhealthy dogs around.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Blitz said:


> Not sure how old you are but I certainly cannot remember a time when PETA were a voice for good. They have always put out a load of totally untrue propaganda - in other words lies!


I was thinking of the campaign against the wearing of fur. Quite a lot of slebs got involved in that. And I'm sure most of us think it's a good thing?


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

cava14 una said:


> It is on PETA Twitter page and is much more noisy than I realised from the Crufts video


I imagine they turned up the volume on the video then. Or the protesters had mikes on them. Cos I saw it live and it wasn't that loud. Most of the noise was the crowd booing.


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## Mirandashell (Jan 10, 2017)

Westie Mum said:


> I presume nothing was mentioned on the show afterwards ?


Clare made a sarky comment but then it was ignored. Which is sensible I think. It had taken enough away from the winner already and with Clare being a supporter of Crufts, she'd want to get it back on track.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

I was sat in the audience and a lot of people were convinced it was a terror attack  myself included. It really freaked my brain. 

As a side note I didn’t like that they ditched the fan fare  nor did I like the fact she walked up and down the lineup after picking her best in show. You signed the paperwork. We all know you’ve made your decision 

I did enjoy the fact that reserve best in show was announced first. It built excitement and the pointer got to enjoy the recognition it deserved


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

ouesi said:


> I love how any Crufts (or Westminster here in the US) discussion eventually ends up interrupted by a PeTA side rant.
> I lost all respect (the little that I had) for PeTA with their stance on BSL and lobbying that pitbulls and related bull breeds are better off dead. They will never get my support on any issue with so much blood on their hands.


Oh I've heard of their stance on BSL . They were involved with the vick dogs weren't They? Saying that fighting dogs can't be rehabilitated.


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

Pappychi said:


> I was sat in the audience and a lot of people were convinced it was a terror attack  myself included. It really freaked my brain.
> 
> As a side note I didn't like that they ditched the fan fare  nor did I like the fact she walked up and down the lineup after picking her best in show. You signed the paperwork. We all know you've made your decision
> 
> I did enjoy the fact that reserve best in show was announced first. It built excitement and the pointer got to enjoy the recognition it deserved


I think a lot of people thought it was a terror attack at first


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2018)

Boxerluver30 said:


> Oh I've heard of their stance on BSL . They were involved with the vick dogs weren't They? Saying that fighting dogs can't be rehabilitated.


Yes, several rescues had to fight tooth and nail to at least give the Vick dogs a chance. PeTA dumped a ton of money in to trying to make sure they were all killed after the trial. Made my blood boil how they handled that. And that of course was the case everyone heard about, before then (and after) there have been countless dog fighting busts where PeTA succeeded in making sure every single dog seized was killed. They are no friends of animals


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Boxerluver30 said:


> I think a lot of people thought it was a terror attack at first


Unfortunately that's the environment we live in now, there was a seating incident at a local event no-one hurt all over in a flash but those who heard the noise and saw the collapse reported they instantly thought terrorist attack. I watched the judging the of Best in Show on TV when the owner of Tease picked her up off the podium my first initial thought was they had cocked up who was chosen!


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

ouesi said:


> Yes, several rescues had to fight tooth and nail to at least give the Vick dogs a chance. PeTA dumped a ton of money in to trying to make sure they were all killed after the trial. Made my blood boil how they handled that. And that of course was the case everyone heard about, before then (and after) there have been countless dog fighting busts where PeTA succeeded in making sure every single dog seized was killed. They are no friends of animals


It was best friends that took them in wasn't it? Thank God someone gave the dogs a chance as most of them went on to become good family pets. It's horrible how they were just written off by peta . I remember watching the champions and all those dogs looked happy in their new homes


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm reading a lot of comments saying that by the definition of 'terrorism' it *was *terrorist attack, and the protestors should be treated as such. 
A few people have mentioned starting a petition to have the charity status removed from Peta, and a fair amount of people are withdrawing support from Peta because they're so disgusted.
I think they've done more harm to their own crappy reputation, than Crufts.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2018)

Boxerluver30 said:


> It was best friends that took them in wasn't it? Thank God someone gave the dogs a chance as most of them went on to become good family pets. It's horrible how they were just written off by peta . I remember watching the champions and all those dogs looked happy in their new homes


Yes, Best Friends. 
I've posted a lot on in in the past, it hasn't come up recently, but there are several threads on here about the Vicktory dogs, PeTA's role in it all, people defending PeTA because, well, I don't really know... But yeah, it's an emotive topic for sure but such an inspiring story (about the Vicktory dogs, not PeTA's role!)


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

@Westie Mum - I've just seen this footage linked on another forum: https://www.facebook.com/OfficialPETAUK/videos/vb.223357247712390/1649010801813687/?type=2&theater 
(apologise for the PETA link everyone!!) but you can see why the woman panicked and picked her dog up, lots of people running in her direction.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

Teddy-dog said:


> @Westie Mum - I've just seen this footage linked on another forum: https://www.facebook.com/OfficialPETAUK/videos/vb.223357247712390/1649010801813687/?type=2&theater
> (apologise for the PETA link everyone!!) but you can see why the woman panicked and picked her dog up, lots of people running in her direction.


Also the security guards came over to take the cup to safety so she probably thought if the cup isn't safe neither is my dog.

Perhaps if she had had a smaller dog and not had the judge and the other official blocking her path the pointers owner might have moved away.

People react to potential threats differently (as do non human species). They also react dependent on past experiences too. In situations where there is a perceived threat most animals humans included with respond with fight flight or freeze. Which someone chooses is dependent on several factors and is a choice weighed up and enacted upon by the ancient part of out brain including the amygdala which reacts very swiftly and not done with any rational logical thinking part of the brain which takes a lot longer to react.

Flight is utilised by people who don't feel they can overcome a threat but have an escape route open to them. Freeze is used when people don't think they can overcome the threat and either they think the danger will be as great or increase if they flee or do not have a clear or easy escape route. Keeping still and hopefully not noticed is a common reaction in the animal kingdom, especially as an initial responsr. Fight occurs when someone perceives that they stand a chance to overcome the threat or perhaps the other two options won't keep them safe. Hence frightened animals can be aggressive if cornered.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I understand why people are angry at Peta but who is angry at the Kennel Club ?
It seems nothing has changed.


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Pappychi said:


> I was sat in the audience and a lot of people were convinced it was a terror attack  myself included. It really freaked my brain.


Tbh that does change it completely. I hope you werent left panicking for too long 



Teddy-dog said:


> @Westie Mum - I've just seen this footage linked on another forum: https://www.facebook.com/OfficialPETAUK/videos/vb.223357247712390/1649010801813687/?type=2&theater
> (apologise for the PETA link everyone!!) but you can see why the woman panicked and picked her dog up, lots of people running in her direction.


Thanks for sharing this. Interesting though this video isn't being shown around the net, just the one that shows the handler picking the dog up and running off with a commotion going on in the background, which makes it look like she maybe over reacted. The full video is definitely more understandable as to why.



kimthecat said:


> I understand why people are angry at Peta but who is angry at the Kennel Club ?
> It seems nothing has changed.


Why would people be angry at the kennel club ?


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Phoenix Rising said:


> I still wouldn't have filled 3 places with 3 dogs all the same breed and colour when there was so many beautiful dogs who also deserved a chance to be best of breed.


But those poodles more closely met the breed standard than other dogs, which is why they were chosen. It's not about beauty.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Bahaha is someone questioning the credentials of the Poodles?

The Miniature was Reserve Best in Show at Crufts 2017 and the top winning dog in the UK last year.

The Standard is a big winning male over in the US. 

The Toy is bred by one of the top winning kennels in the UK ever and it was also placed in the Pup of the Year final. 

Unfair advantage indeed :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Westie Mum said:


> Tbh that does change it completely. I hope you werent left panicking for too long


A lot of people were worrying. A little girl in front of us burst into tears thinking we were caught up in a terror attack


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## CuddleMonster (Mar 9, 2016)

My first thought was a potential terror attack. Full marks for courage to both owners for focussing on keeping their pets safe and to the security staff too - I'm sure the 'worst case scenario' must flash through their minds when they see an intruder, but they just got on with their job of trying to keep everyone safe. And I really hope PETA lose their charitable status for this!

And I don't think this will be all we remember in the future - my main memory is of a beautiful dog who had a very clear, loving bond with the owner - lovely to see how she calmed the dog down so quickly.


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## Boxerluver30 (Jun 14, 2017)

CuddleMonster said:


> My first thought was a potential terror attack. Full marks for courage to both owners for focussing on keeping their pets safe and to the security staff too - I'm sure the 'worst case scenario' must flash through their minds when they see an intruder, but they just got on with their job of trying to keep everyone safe. And I really hope PETA lose their charitable status for this!
> 
> And I don't think this will be all we remember in the future - my main memory is of a beautiful dog who had a very clear, loving bond with the owner - lovely to see how she calmed the dog down so quickly.


Agreed, tease was a lovely looking whippet and was handled well by Yvette. A well deserved win in my opinion, all the dogs in the line up for BIS this year were great imo


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Pappychi said:


> The Standard is a big winning male over in the US.


I'm no fan of the standard show cut (well any of them really but the standards show cut is worse in my head :Bag) but man that boy showed his furry pom poms off(minds out of the gutter please...) even my totally clueless (in dog conformation and training sense) partner commented on how nice the poodles were and he normally zones out for Crufts week LOL


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> I'm no fan of the standard show cut (well any of them really but the standards show cut is worse in my head :Bag) but man that boy showed his furry pom poms off(minds out of the gutter please...) even my totally clueless (in dog conformation and training sense) partner commented on how nice the poodles were and he normally zones out for Crufts week LOL


I do always find Poodles very flashy. I remember being sat ringside one year at Crufts watching the open bitch class and this female Poodle looked down her nose at the people sat ringside like they were something she'd stepped in :Hilarious


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