# fish creche???



## jshankar (Apr 11, 2009)

HI,

I have only one tank with tropical fish. I have tetras, corys and 1 RTb shark. its a 125 L tank. Its not over populated, but kind of just right if you see what I mean. some months ago i started off with live plants and ive been having some success but also a lot of algae, which I can control, but keeps coming back. The plants are growing, but the algae always just seems to take control. Ive managed to make cuttings from plants grow successfully, but the algae is still on top, but the plants are growing through it, but occassionally get smothered. Ive been very busy as you can imagine.

Ive been advised to try a "bleach dip". 5% bleach, each plant/ornament goes in there for 1 min then rinsed thoroughly.
Also currently my susbtrate is nothing more than garden soil (clayey bits) and gravel. 


So I want to know if someone can take care of my fish for a couple of weeks while I give a thorough scrub down and rinse and replace the substrate with JBL manado (anyone used this? reviews?), replant and go through a couple of water changes. Id reckon about 2 weeks. Are there such angels about the North Cheshire (Widnes,runcorn, warrington)/merseyside area???

FULL DETAILS:

fluval roma 125 tank
fluval 3+ internal filter with biological foam filters
substrate is clayey soil+gravel covering the bottom 1 inch of the tank
plants include bacopa monneri, hygrophilas, cabomas, dwarf hairgrass, a tuft of xmas moss, java fern.
ive had the tank for over a year now, so its well cycled and mature, with live plants for about 4 months now
fish stock: neon tetra x8, cory x6, black phantom tetra x10, penguin tetra x 10, RTB shark x1, zebra danios x8
pH 6.4, gH 3-6d, kH 7-14d, NO2 ~0, NO3 0-10 mg/L. I tested for phosphates at the LFS about a month ago and it was ~3 (ppm?) so I added a couple of phosphate absorbing teabag thingies for a few weeks.
I had it lighted for 12h but now its down to 8h (4 on 4 off 4 on and off for the night)
not adding CO2 atm, was experimenting with a DIY yeast thingy but was not dissolving it right I think, so I stopped for now.


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## holly1 (Aug 10, 2010)

Could you get one of those plastic storage boxes,and put them in there for a few days?
If I had a spare tank,I could do it,but my ph is alot higher than yours,it might kill them.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2010)

jshankar said:


> HI,
> 
> I have only one tank with tropical fish. I have tetras, corys and 1 RTb shark. its a 125 L tank. Its not over populated, but kind of just right if you see what I mean. some months ago i started off with live plants and ive been having some success but also a lot of algae, which I can control, but keeps coming back. The plants are growing, but the algae always just seems to take control. Ive managed to make cuttings from plants grow successfully, but the algae is still on top, but the plants are growing through it, but occassionally get smothered. Ive been very busy as you can imagine.
> 
> ...


Bleach will kill the plants even when diluted, so that's a definite no-go.

Stripping down the tank isn't going to help, the algae will probably return if you're making the same mistakes. You need to find the cause of the algae and work from there.

You need to provide some more details on the system, including some specifics on the lighting. What is the wattage of each light tube/bulb and can you provide details on the colour temperature? Alternatively, just give me the name of the tubes/bulbs (i.e. Arcadia T5 Plant Pro) and we can go from there. I'm asking this because if the tubes/bulbs are of the wrong colour temperature (or spectrum as you may know it), they can encourage algal growth.

Remember that if your lighting is high, your plants will photosynthesize faster. They may strip the water column of any small traces of CO2, which in turn results in a deficiency. If the plants can't find an extra source of CO2 that they require, they'll stop removing excess nutrients from the water, and the algae will take hold. You could consider a liquid source of carbon, rather than a yeast-based or pressurized system. EasyLife EasyCarbo springs to mind.

I would honestly cut down the photopperiod to six hours, and make sure that the tank isn't exposed to natural sunlight.

Your tank is very heavily stocked, and I doubt that a small internal filter can actually cope with the waste. You have a total of 43 fish, most of which (with the exception being the RTB) grow to around 5cm/2", and that is very high bioload for a 125 litre tank. The secret to success with planted aquariums and avoid algae is to stock lightly. The best thing now is to shave the stock down to one or two species of tetra or danios and the corydoras, and remove the RTB permanently.

Garden soil can be used but it should ideally be peat-free unless you fancy some serious water staining. If you must change the substrate, it should really only take a few hours, not two full weeks. I stripped down a 5ft planted tank last year for a friend with a couple of pairs of extra hands, set it back up and re-planted it in just over a day.


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## xBubblesx (Jan 20, 2010)

Do you have a few plants or loads?

What colour is your algae, brown, green, red, blue-green?

If the tank is in direct sunlight that will not help, and how many hours do you have the light on for?

How many water changes do you do a week?

If i was you i would get 2 bristlenose, to control the algae for now as they are excellent algae eaters, hardy and do not grow large (around 4"). They are amazing compared to just your normal plecos that poo more than they can consume.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2010)

xBubblesx said:


> If i was you i would get 2 bristlenose, to control the algae for now as they are excellent algae eaters, hardy and do not grow large (around 4"). They are amazing compared to just your normal plecos that poo more than they can consume.


All fish produce waste, and remember that it's not just solid waster that is produced. Larger fish produce more metabolic waste products such as ammonia, which is broken down into nitrate and phosphate. As the tank is at the moment, the last thing that the OP wants to do is add more fish.


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## jshankar (Apr 11, 2009)

OK I will try to answer as many questions now

To start with the lighting: I have not the foggiest! I got this tank second hand. Ill have to go back home and see what I can find out about it. Im at the office now.

The plants: I would say its not too thick, its a medium level of plants. i have the following:
crypto affinis about 8 plants
green caboma about 10 strands, i made some cuttings from the five i purchased. they grow long quite fast and then have roots coming off the middle of the plant; which I cut off and replant elsewhere
bacopa monneri about 8 strands
another bacopa about 10-12 strands from making different cuttings, but im not too sure about the species. it thrives in the tank though
a hygrophila (angustafolia i think), also had to drastically cut it back a while ago, but ive also successfully made cuttings from it
dwarf hair grass about 12 tufts of it, its got a lot of algae, but then i see some fresh green strands near a tuft once in a while
java fern on a rock that puts out new leaves every 4-6 weeks or so
tuft of x mas moss on bogwood again mixed in with algae, but can see the lighter green moss springing out of it. i had to cut it back once.


i have a big stone and some ornaments that have what looks like black tuft algae. i have an idea to remove some of the stones that occupy more than half the floor space and replace them over time with cuttings from the thriving plants. thats to increase the density of the plants. I also find that the plants themselves have hairy algae starting on the edges. ill try to get some pics when I get home


Also Ive noticed some snails now and i think this is from the soil even though i washed it in boiling water a couple of times, then a few times in cold water and took only the bits that sedimented the fastest.

Is akadama (bonsai) soil any good? I cant get rid of any fishes at the moment because the wife loves them all...bless her. Maybe I can persuade her into getting another tank then separate into two stocks and have them both planted up....? thats one idea

I owe you lighting details and some pics!!!


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## jshankar (Apr 11, 2009)

by the way the tank used to be exposed to direct sunlight then ove moved it away from there about 3 weeks ago!


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2010)

Your plants seem to be growing well. I would certainly get hold of some _Hygrophila polysperma_, it grows like wildfire and it's a much faster grower than_ H. augustifolia_.

If the tank was exposed to sunlight on a regular basis, then that would have most likely been a contributing factor to the algae growth. Have you noticed any change in the algae growth since moving the tank?

As for Bonsai soil or akadama, this can indeed be used for aquariums. A world-famous Japanese aquascaper called Takashai Amano has used Bonsai soil in several of this aquariums over the years, and all of these tanks were high-tec planted systems.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2010)

jshankar said:


> i have a big stone and some ornaments that have what looks like black tuft algae.


Brush algae fits the description, which tends to favour CO2-deficient and more alkaline water; and it definitely likes growing on tough broad-leaved plants such as Anubias.

However, your water conditions are fairly acidic, so we can rule out alkaline water as contributing to the cause. The next thing to look at is the CO2. Low or unstable levels of CO2 will encourage Brush algae, as will high levels of nutrients.

Very few fish will remove this algae and mechanical removal is nigh-on impossible due to its toughness. You need to start dosing CO2 (which should be maintained at around 30ppm) and strike the balance between this, the intensity and photoperiod of the lighting and the amount of nutrients going into the tank.


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## jshankar (Apr 11, 2009)

as for the lighting, i can make out aquaglo 24" but the rest of the wording has been rubbed off. I think its time to replace them as well cos they are a bit blackened at the ends.

I have used the yeast system before like i mentioned and i had no diffuser so that could have resulted in the fluctuating CO2 levels. Also i was changing water every other week and not every week so that could mean that excess nutrients were about. SO I should try the liquid carbon formula, plus increased water changing plus reduced lighting?

Will the alga just go away (reduce and lurk in the background) or should I physically remove it from the plant leaves etc to give a helping hand.

Also when I had it in the other place with the sunlight, i was lighting for 10h per day, now its down to 8h per day. it seems to have slowed the process of algal growth, but its still there.
I would like to get rid of the stones (atleast the big one occupying most of the space) and start to replace it with cuttings etc. I will look into _H.polysperma_ as well.

i still owe you pictures, the battery is charging....


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## jshankar (Apr 11, 2009)

by the way, the fish are fed once a day 4 days a week, twice a day two days a week and unfed for one day!


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## jshankar (Apr 11, 2009)

btw jus to clarify, chill, you are saying that change of substrate at this stage is also not going to affect the situation greatly?
Cheers


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## jshankar (Apr 11, 2009)

attached pictures


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2010)

jshankar said:


> btw jus to clarify, chill, you are saying that change of substrate at this stage is also not going to affect the situation greatly?
> Cheers


No, it will have very little effect on the algae growth if the CO2 is limited or unstable. Soil substrates should be changed around once every 14-18 months, some suggest 12 months however the amount of waste that decomposes in soil substrates is enough to maintain the substrate's nutriment.

The tubes you currently have are fine, however they are probably due for replacement as you have suggested. It's not necessarily because of the dark discoloration of the tube, but the fact that they lose their effectiveness after around 6-8 months. If you took a LUX reading from a distance of 15cm from the tubes at the time of fitting the new tubes, and another reading six months later, you will see that the luminosity of the tubes has diminished alarmingly.

I would reduce the photoperiod right down to six hours, and consider introducing a 'siesta' where the lights are off for one hour during the early afternoon. When you replace the light tubes, you might want to consider looking at different brands such as tubes from Arcadia or Dennerle, both of whom produce tubes specifically designed for planted aquariums.

Finally, it's also worth bearing in mind that water changes might not necessarily help. The reason for this is because if your tapwater is full of nitrate and phosphate, you would in fact be adding more nutrients to the tank. While excess nutrients aren't necessarily a bad thing in well-planted aquariums, they will cause algae if the plants aren't growing due to other problems. I would recommend testing your tapwater for nitrate and phosphate.


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## jshankar (Apr 11, 2009)

right!

I will look into all this. I think the tap water is quite clean and soft. Its low on nitrates, but not too sure about the phosphates though. I see where this is headed in terms of balance for the carbon availability and other nutrients. I will get the easylife easycarbo (my LFS are unaware of this and recommended other fertilisers that are more generic/iron rich but not especially carbon rich). They asked me to bring in details of this product to them so they can look into ordering it.

Cheers mate. Ill keep you updated on this!


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## jshankar (Apr 11, 2009)

!!!UPDATE!!!

ACTIONS

- About 4 weeks ago i decided to swap substrate. i was in two minds about it, but the crummy topsoil and gravel just did not have the look i wanted to achieve. I went for the JBL manado substrate. I must say that the substrate colour certainly contrasts quite well with the plants green colour.

- Ive not done anything about lights yet though. its xmas and Ive only just secured a job offer. Ill have to wait for my first pay cheque.

- Ive been adding the Easylife-easycarbo solution everyday. I also procured some easylife profito to complement the easycarbo. this is added weekly

- Finally, I also treated once with JBL Algol and a follow up treatment one week ago.

- When buying the substrate, ive also gone for some _H. polysperma_ and some _E. densa_

OBSERVATIONS AND ALSO SOME CONCERNS

- Consistently, the pH has remained the same (about 6.4), as has the GH (7-14 deg D) and KH (3-6 deg D); however, I have noticed a change in the NO2 (from 0-10 to about 50 mg/L) and NO3 (from about 0 to 5mg/L). ive made 2 water changes.i live in a soft water area btw.

- THERE IS NO ALGAE to report on whatsoever - but this is a small degree of concern - there is NO discernable growth in my plants either. INFACT, the _E. densa_ slowly died. These were good quality plants from my LFS that I selected the healthy looking ones from. The _H. polysperma_ have not grown at all. All my plants seems to be stuck in time. There is no root growth either (I pulled out a couple of _H. polysperma_ to check in desperation)

I have not added any soil fertiliser; only the PROFITO once a week as recommended. I have removed the DIY CO2 reactor I had. I brought lighting to 6h per day and increased in half hour increments per week to 8h per day (I dont plan on increasing it anymore).

Does the substrate need to "mature" in the sense that does it have to collect some mulm before the roots can develop and we can see measurable plant growth?? any ideas on this??
Cheers in advance...


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