# Fish...



## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

So typically I didn't listen to good advice and went with the very bad advice from LFS and put fish in my tank, I have been doing frequent water changes and regular testing, I haven't had an ammonia spike yet, I had a very small rise but I'm now showing a rise in nitrates but not ammonia or nitrite, I have been using Fluval Cycle and adding some each week and using the water conditioner when doing the changes and matching as close as possible the water temperature, I have had one problem in that my catfish seemed to get a really sore mouth but I think from further investigation it was because she was on gravel rather than sand so I changed the substrate over and I have been using Melafix for a few days and she has perked right back up and the redness seems to be getting better. I also ditched the silk plants as they starting looking really grubby after only a couple of weeks, so I only have proper plants now, but I am loving my tank and find my fish mesmerising to watch, oh and I decided against a Betta for now but may look to get a tank just for a Betta further down the line. Anyhoo, I have 6 Black Neon Tetras, 6 King Cobra Guppies (all male) and an Albino Bristle nosed Catfish (I think she is a she as she doesn't have bristles) I am slightly worried that I might have too many fish now but I was told this amount was fine for my size tank, but I have decided that LFS people will tell you want you want to hear and not necessarily what is actually correct.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

MontyMaude said:


> So typically I didn't listen to good advice and went with the very bad advice from LFS and put fish in my tank, I have been doing frequent water changes and regular testing, I haven't had an ammonia spike yet, I had a very small rise but I'm now showing a rise in nitrates but not ammonia or nitrite, I have been using Fluval Cycle and adding some each week and using the water conditioner when doing the changes and matching as close as possible the water temperature, I have had one problem in that my catfish seemed to get a really sore mouth but I think from further investigation it was because she was on gravel rather than sand so I changed the substrate over and I have been using Melafix for a few days and she has perked right back up and the redness seems to be getting better. I also ditched the silk plants as they starting looking really grubby after only a couple of weeks, so I only have proper plants now, but I am loving my tank and find my fish mesmerising to watch, oh and I decided against a Betta for now but may look to get a tank just for a Betta further down the line. Anyhoo, I have 6 Black Neon Tetras, 6 King Cobra Guppies (all male) and an Albino Bristle nosed Catfish (I think she is a she as she doesn't have bristles) I am slightly worried that I might have too many fish now but I was told this amount was fine for my size tank, but I have decided that LFS people will tell you want you want to hear and not necessarily what is actually correct.
> 
> View attachment 306529


How long have you had the fish?

Fluval Cycle sounds a lot like Tetra Safe Start, so if you've been using that alongside water changes, it could be that the tank is now fully cycled, which is supported by the rise in nitrate.

Yeah, LFS will generally tell you what they think you want to hear, as per my thread further down, in which one LFS assistant told me I could have as many Malawi cichlids in my tank as I liked, without knowing the volume or dimensions of said tank, nor my filtration or experience levels. 

You can check your stocking levels on this site:

http://aqadvisor.com

It'll also flag any compatibility warning


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> How long have you had the fish?
> 
> Fluval Cycle sounds a lot like Tetra Safe Start, so if you've been using that alongside water changes, it could be that the tank is now fully cycled, which is supported by the rise in nitrate.
> 
> ...


I have had the Neons 3 weeks, the Catfsssssh 2 weeks and the Gupgups just over a week as I did read to not get them all at once, and I did read and hopefully have fish that are all compatible and they all seem to be tolerant of each other apart from one Tetra who seems to be a grumpy so and so, I have been reading lots on the inter web and watching youtube videos but there seems to be so much conflicting advice out there, but I found the same with my pond fish and I have muddle through with them, so fingers crossed. One of my Tetras is missing his tail, but it doesn't seem to be affecting him too muchI presume it got nipped off in the shop  I should remember to check fish over before buying them as one of my Koi is missing his dorsal fin after the idiot boy in the fish shop ripped off pulling him roughly out of the net to put in the bag, but 2 years later he is still going strong just finless 

Right the calculator thing came up with these results -


Note: *Albino Bristlenose Pleco* needs driftwood.

Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 *Guppy*, minimum recommend male to female ratio is *1:2* (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.

Recommended temperature range: 22 - 27 C. [Display in Farenheit]
Recommended pH range: 5.5 - 7.5.
Recommended hardness range: 1 - 15 dH.

You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is *191%*.
Recommended water change schedule: *1%* per week.
*Your aquarium stocking level is 14%*. 

So apart from only have male guppies and I have bog wood rather than drift wood but have read that bog wood should be used for catfish I think it's all ok, but I will do bigger than 1% water changes a week.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

What size is your tank? It doesn't look that big from the photo - are you sure you entered the dimensions correctly into aqadvisor? (You can input them in litres or gallons, and in inches or cm, so check that you're using the right units!)


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

NaomiM said:


> What size is your tank? It doesn't look that big from the photo - are you sure you entered the dimensions correctly into aqadvisor? (You can input them in litres or gallons, and in inches or cm, so check that you're using the right units!)


No I just checked and they were wrong grrr, hang on and I shall try again


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Ok I think this is correct this time, as it kept reverting to inches :Rage


Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 *Guppy*, minimum recommend male to female ratio is *1:2* (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.

Note: *Albino Bristlenose Pleco* needs driftwood.

Warning: *Albino Bristlenose Pleco* is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 10.2 cm.

Recommended temperature range: 24 - 27 C. [Display in Farenheit]
Recommended pH range: 5.5 - 7.5.
Recommended hardness range: 1 - 15 dH.

You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is *187%*.
Recommended water change schedule: *38%* per week.
*Your aquarium stocking level is 121%*. 

Which sounds better but means I have two many fish, but I am doing two water changes a week it's 57 litres so I have been doing 20l and 25l changes so I think/hope it will all be ok.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Don't worry too much about driftwood/bogwood. If you have one or the other (or both), that's fine.

You did the right thing, notadding all the fish at the same time. Keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite, and if they start to rise, or s/he starts to get too big, you may need to rehome the plec.

Your Tetra sounds a lot like my male Cherry Barb, Hannibal  Didn't get the memo that he's supposed to be a shoaling fish - not a territorial one. :Hilarious .He beat up my Cichlids, that fish. I swear he was happier when I moved him to my QT, all on his lonesome. :Wacky

Lived to to ripe old age, too.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

There is a bit of a margin for error with Aqadvisor, so you can get away with slightly over 100% stocking if you keep on top of the water changes. And your fish will be babies at the moment, so their bioload will be smaller. It does sound like your tank is a little small for any kind of pleco in the long term - she'll be OK while she's a baby, but you may want to think about upgrading at some point in the future.

Do keep a close eye on your water test results, since you're doing a fish-in cycle with quite heavy stocking. Test every day, and do a water change any time the ammonia/nitrite rise above 0, as LinzNMilly has said.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> Don't worry too much about driftwood/bogwood. If you have one or the other (or both), that's fine.
> 
> You did the right thing, notadding all the fish at the same time. Keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite, and if they start to rise, or s/he starts to get too big, you may need to rehome the plec.
> 
> ...


I like the name Hannibal, I may steal it for my miserable little so and so.



NaomiM said:


> There is a bit of a margin for error with Aqadvisor, so you can get away with slightly over 100% stocking if you keep on top of the water changes. And your fish will be babies at the moment, so their bioload will be smaller. It does sound like your tank is a little small for any kind of pleco in the long term - she'll be OK while she's a baby, but you may want to think about upgrading at some point in the future.
> 
> Do keep a close eye on your water test results, since you're doing a fish-in cycle with quite heavy stocking. Test every day, and do a water change any time the ammonia/nitrite rise above 0, as LinzNMilly has said.


I have been testing every day, I did have a very small rise in ammonia but did a water change straight away, I was told my Sucky Fish wouldn't get very big as I do like Spotty Common Plec but was told they would/could grow to a foot long  but my little one would get much bigger than 3 inches, but I think I will upgrade at some point just don't tell the husband, but she/he freaked me out to start with but I've actually grown quite fond of the little weirdo.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

BNs are one of the smallest plecos, but still ideally need at least 60cm of swimming space when fully grown, and it looks like your tank is less than that? They also have quite a heavy bioload (i.e. they poo lots!) http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/ancistrus-cf-cirrhosus/


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

NaomiM said:


> BNs are one of the smallest plecos, but still ideally need at least 60cm of swimming space when fully grown, and it looks like your tank is less than that? They also have quite a heavy bioload (i.e. they poo lots!) http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/ancistrus-cf-cirrhosus/


Oh yes it is a poop machine!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

MontyMaude said:


> I like the name Hannibal, I may steal it for my miserable little so and so.


Be my guest. Mam called him Jaws, but I didn't think it suited him. As he beat up the female barbs too, I called him Hannibal, and the name stuck.

Your BN is lovely.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I have also now just added 2 Assassin Snails today as I knew I had a couple of snails that came in on the plants but last night there appeared to be thousands (over 20) of the little blighters, so I nipped to my local Maidenhead Aquatics and brought two snails, which within 30 minutes of being in the tank grabbed a snail each and disappeared under the sand, so fingers crossed they will sort my snail problem out. I also brought some Brine Shrimp and the Guppies went crazy for them  The cats and dogs also appears to love the tank, Hector has only just really noticed it after nearly a month, but he loves Catfissssh 










Monty watching Catfisssh whilst being watched himself by the Guppies  (that was before I changed the gravel to sand and took the silk plants out)


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

If your snail population is going crazy, it may be a sign that you're overfeeding, so just keep an eye on that too


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Question: is Maidenhead Aquatics still a recommended LFS? It used to be the best of the best when I was a regular fishkeeping forum member (separate site, not this one), but we didn't have any around here back then. 

Fast forward a few years, and it appears that there are 2 within reasonable driving distance. I intend to pop in on a Tuesday or Thursday afternoon, while I'm around that way for hospital appts, so am looking for opinions.

Sorry for the thread hijack. :Shy


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

From my very limited experience of LFS they all seem to vary as to who you speak to, I was actually been impressed with Pets At Home the other week as someone in there was refusing to sell 4 goldfish to a customer and said she could only have 2 for the size of her tank, Maidenhead have been quite good but the knowledgable fish chap isn't really a people person so is really abrupt and well odd really but he has been helpful and their fish always look healthier with less dead stock, my independent LFS is a complete mixed bag, everyone tells you something different and then they look at you like you have 3 heads if you mention that someone told you different and they do seem to have a fair few dead fish which I guess is part and parcel of selling fish but some look very very dead and some are half munched and I would think it would take longer than a day to get into the state some of their dead fish are in.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

My local MA is very good, a tad expensive but worth it as the fish are always very healthy. But yes, no doubt it varies between branches.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

NaomiM said:


> My local MA is very good, a tad expensive but worth it as the fish are always very healthy. But yes, no doubt it varies between branches.


Thanks.

I don't mind paying for quality fish, as the last time I had fish, it turned out to be mostly disastrous - a lot of ill health and disease (no, not water quality related).

Started cycling the filter this morning, as I wait for plants. 

Will pop into my local MA tomorrow as I'm in the area anyway.


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

One of my local MAs and other independent are really good (Crowland MA and Waterzoo). The Cambridge MA is OK for experience (depends who you get serving). My other local one is so so. I didn't feel they were so knowleagable. Some of the MAs specialise in certain fish groups depending on what their interests are so if you want something particular it is worth travelling.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> I don't mind paying for quality fish, as the last time I had fish, it turned out to be mostly disastrous - a lot of ill health and disease (no, not water quality related).


I sympathise - the first time I tried keeping livebearers, I lost about 75% of them in the first couple of weeks due to a particularly nasty strain of columnaris that they must have had from the shop. It's particularly heartbreaking and discouraging when you've put in the effort to research and do a full fishless cycle first, then something like that happens and leaves you wondering why you bothered 

ETA - the shop those fish were from wasn't MA, but another local one that I now don't use due to repeated health issues with fish purchased from there!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

NaomiM said:


> I sympathise - the first time I tried keeping livebearers, I lost about 75% of them in the first couple of weeks due to a particularly nasty strain of columnaris that they must have had from the shop. It's particularly heartbreaking and discouraging when you've put in the effort to research and do a full fishless cycle first, then something like that happens and leaves you wondering why you bothered
> 
> ETA - the shop those fish were from wasn't MA, but another local one that I now don't use due to repeated health issues with fish purchased from there!


Same happened to me, but with Rummynosed Tetras and a complete tank wipe out in 3 days. 

Luckily that was my Q tank. Also had fish TB, which was near impossible to get rid of, and relegated my display tank to a hospital tank. Fish were just badly bred, and over bred, and that was despite the fact that I was keeping fish ideally suited to my water chemistry.

Like you say, you do everything right, and then something like that happens, makes you wonder why you bother.

There's another LFS that opened last year that I intend to check out too.

Plus this time, I can drive, soI'm not relying on anyone for lifts


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## kittih (Jan 19, 2014)

One good test I find to see if a shop is any good is to go in (or phone them) and tell them that you want to set up a tropical fish tank as a complete beginner and ask their advice about what you need to do.

If they say buy a tank, add water wait a week then add fish then run a mile. If they talk about cycling and recommend fishless cycling over fish in cycling and then make some sensible fish suggestions and talk about water parameters then you have a good one. Sorts the good from the bad.


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## Lucylu18 (May 10, 2021)

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