# The police and Margaret Thatchers funeral.



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Just listening to the radio and i think the police are taking the wrong approach to people that are going to protest.
A police officer has just said that if people hold up placards they will be asked to take them down, or the police will remove them. Also anyone chanting ect. will be dealt with.
This i fear will inflame the situation.
Thoughts?*


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

I would expect this action is being taken out of respect to her family who loved her and are grieving.

A funeral is a solemn and sad affair - regardless of who it is - and is no place for any kind of protest.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

No Thatcher lover here,but a funeral is no place for protests and I really believe that all this protesting like on Saturday which were mostly very young people are more a protests against the current government,I think the state funeral is just showtime for the rest of the world


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*What about the fact we have a right to peaceful protests in this country? If nobody is doing any harm then i don't think the protesters should be stopped. I can understand from the family's point of view, but as it was pointed out on the radio, how can you tell the tax payer in one breathe they will be paying for this funeral but then tell them they have no say in it?
It doesn't sit well with me.*


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *What about the fact we have a right to peaceful protests in this country? If nobody is doing any harm then i don't think the protesters should be stopped. I can understand from the family's point of view, but as it was pointed out on the radio, how can you tell the tax payer in one breathe they will be paying for this funeral but then tell them they have no say in it?
> It doesn't sit well with me.*


There's a time and a place for protests - this funeral is neither of those!!!

ETA: It's all very well saying folks who want to protest should be allowed. Well, what about the folks who want to pay their respects honourably. Don't they get a choice???? They will be tax payers too!!


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *What about the fact we have a right to peaceful protests in this country? If nobody is doing any harm then i don't think the protesters should be stopped. I can understand from the family's point of view, but as it was pointed out on the radio, how can you tell the tax payer in one breathe they will be paying for this funeral but then tell them they have no say in it?
> It doesn't sit well with me.*


Just dont think a funeral is the right place or time,Tax payers pay for everything in the country and have no say in it


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *What about the fact we have a right to peaceful protests in this country? If nobody is doing any harm then i don't think the protesters should be stopped. I can understand from the family's point of view, but as it was pointed out on the radio, how can you tell the tax payer in one breathe they will be paying for this funeral but then tell them they have no say in it?
> It doesn't sit well with me.*


Agreed.

I'm afraid if its to be paid for by the tax payer, then the tax payer has a right to protest. I think everyone is aware about how I feel about thatcher, but if its to be such a public spectacle then the family will have to accept that not everyone is going to be in support of them.

Had they wanted to prevent such a thing, then the funeral should be a private affair for those who loved and cared for her.

Unfortunatly, I can see it going the wrong way. There may not be many placards but the police cannot steal their voices and I can imagine it descending into spitting instead of a peaceful protest with signs and placards.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *What about the fact we have a right to peaceful protests in this country? If nobody is doing any harm then i don't think the protesters should be stopped. I can understand from the family's point of view, but as it was pointed out on the radio, how can you tell the tax payer in one breathe they will be paying for this funeral but then tell them they have no say in it?
> It doesn't sit well with me.*


We have no say in how any of our taxes are spent, so why should this be any different?

I think anyone that uses this funeral as an excuse to protest the current government is despicable!


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

i'm no fan, and Personally, not exactly upset she's dead, but she wasn't My mother... show your disapproval of this woman by all means by peaceful protest (although *peaceful *protests aren't exactly what this country is good at!) but not at a funeral; that's just petty, spiteful and quite frankly heartless- what kind of human could honestly feel ok about making one of the worst days of a family's life worse by chanting and holding up placards condemning the deceased!?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> What about the fact we have a right to peaceful protests in this country?


I agree but shouldn't we also be respectful of others? To me it's an issue of where the protest is. Away from the funeral procession etc, no problems with placards etc. You'd still have the right to protest (not that I expect it to be peaceful) but at the same time allow for the feelings of others. Even better, once the funeral is over, why not do the route waving placards etc.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *What about the fact we have a right to peaceful protests in this country? If nobody is doing any harm then i don't think the protesters should be stopped. I can understand from the family's point of view, but as it was pointed out on the radio, how can you tell the tax payer in one breathe they will be paying for this funeral but then tell them they have no say in it?
> It doesn't sit well with me.*


The high security (and associated costs thereof) are there *because* of the protesters. Maybe it is the protesters who should be sent the bill?


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Not really the time or place IMO .....

Are they protesting about the money being spent on the funeral?


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

suewhite said:


> No Thatcher lover here,but a funeral is no place for protests and* I really believe that all this protesting like on Saturday which were mostly very young people are more a protests against the current government*,I think the state funeral is just showtime for the rest of the world


The bit in bold.... couldnt agree more! Sadly those of us who do feel strongly about thatcher arent the ones damaging property or causing fights - yet we are tarred with the same brush!


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

If its a "breach of the peace" or offensive, nick em


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

How many people are saying we have the right to protest at her funeral and then would attack the Westboro baptist church for doing the same at soldier's funerals? Funerals are no place for protests let the family grieve their lost loved one in peace whoever they may be.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

kodakkuki said:


> i'm no fan, and Personally, not exactly upset she's dead, but she wasn't My mother... show your disapproval of this woman by all means by peaceful protest (although *peaceful *protests aren't exactly what this country is good at!) but not at a funeral; that's just petty, spiteful and quite frankly heartless- what kind of human could honestly feel ok about making one of the worst days of a family's life worse by chanting and holding up placards condemning the deceased!?


*I think you will find a lot of the protesters will be the likes of people that suffered under Thatchers rule.*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Goblin said:


> I agree but shouldn't we also be respectful of others? To me it's an issue of where the protest is. Away from the funeral procession etc, no problems with placards etc. You'd still have the right to protest (not that I expect it to be peaceful) but at the same time allow for the feelings of others. Even better, once the funeral is over, why not do the route waving placards etc.


Said it before and will say it again....

Respect is earned.

Unfortunatly I think those who are planning to attend this protest are not the ones who atually feel strongly about Thatcher at all. It will be those same people who ruined the student protests, or like those in Brixton... violence for the sake of violence, and destruction just because they can.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *I think you will find a lot of the protesters will be the likes of people that suffered under Thatchers rule.*


but thats not how protesters in this country think though; it's already been said about the kids protesting the other day- why would this protest be any different?
i think you'll find that a hell of a lot of kids just like the excuse to protest and cause bother!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

kodakkuki said:


> but thats not how protesters in this country think though; it's already been said about the kids protesting the other day- why would this protest be any different?
> i think you'll find that a hell of a lot of kids just like the excuse to protest and cause bother!


*I agree you will always get those that go just for trouble. But i don't believe it can be said for all protesters,far from it.*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *I think you will find a lot of the protesters will be the likes of people that suffered under Thatchers rule.*


Do you think so?

I dont know anyone who is planning to attend who were those who suffered, although facebook seems full of teenagers and young adults who are planning on going and I dont think any of these were even born when thatcher was in power.

I do agree with the principles of the protest, dont get me wrong. I hated Thatcher, and feel much better now she is dead n gone! I had a wee drink in private the night she went (and maybe a little dance around the kitchen when the radio played tonights gonna be a good night  ). I detest the fact that my money is going on her funeral, and I would join a protest if I could be sure it would be peaceful. However I dislike all forms of violence and I can imagine it will descend into that.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *I agree you will always get those that go just for trouble. But i don't believe it can be said for all protesters,far from it.*


no,no, not all... but it only takes a handful to give the entire protest a bad name... and with it, all protesters...


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Respect is earned.


So you treat others like mud until you know them and have time for them to earn your respect? Most people would do it the other way, give them respect until they lose it. To do otherwise means you are not worthy of respect yourself. How many people do you know supporting the funeral personally? They aren't Maggie, she couldn't care less.



> Unfortunatly I think those who are planning to attend this protest are not the ones who atually feel strongly about Thatcher at all. It will be those same people who ruined the student protests, or like those in Brixton... violence for the sake of violence, and destruction just because they can.


Agree on this.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> If its a "breach of the peace" or offensive, nick em


Who's to say whats offensive?

I find it offensive that she is being given a public funeral! I find it offensive to be told that I am dispicable because I hated the woman, I find what she did to huge swathes of the population offensive.

I'm sure her family, friends and supporters would find me and my feelings offensive... but to take offense is subjective and personal.

A public spectacle like this funeral, is not a personal event, its public and therefore subject to public scrutiny - whether we like it and support it or not.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *I agree you will always get those that go just for trouble. But i don't believe it can be said for all protesters,far from it.*


Not all protesters but there will be a lot just looking to cause any trouble they can. Even if people do mean it to be a peaceful protest it will be ruined by the troublemakers.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Goblin said:


> So you treat others like mud until you know them and have time for them to earn your respect? Most people would do it the other way, give them respect until they lose it. To do otherwise means you are not worthy of respect yourself. How many people do you know supporting the funeral personally? They aren't Maggie, she couldn't care less.
> 
> Agree on this.


How many people do I know supporting the funeral personally? 2 I think, and as I keep blimmin saying I respect () their right for their own opinions! I would hope others respect my right to my own!

Respect is earned, and whilst I am polite to just about everyone that doesnt mean I respect them... it means I respect myself. Respect is earned from actions (or omission of action), knowledge of the person and their beliefs, and from understanding their rights and your own.

Maggie lost the right to respect when she committed her atrocities against the british (and other nations). Whether you agree with me or not, its my opinion.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Who's to say whats offensive?
> 
> I find it offensive that she is being given a public funeral! *I find it offensive to be told that I am dispicable because I hated the woman,* I find what she did to huge swathes of the population offensive.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if that is in response to my post or not, but I just wanted to clarify what I actually said, just in case.



MCWillow said:


> We have no say in how any of our taxes are spent, so why should this be any different?
> 
> *I think anyone that uses this funeral as an excuse to protest the current government is despicable!*


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

"I too am sick to death of things like this. But this group are not the majority they are just trouble makers. What would I do if I had the chance? I'd send our soldiers onto the streets of Wootton Bassett and let them defend the memories of their mates."

Which PF member said this re the topic of Muslim extremists protesting against the funerals processions of British soldiers killed in Afghanistan???????

Disrupting funerals is disgusting, sick and offensive - no matter who is doing the protesting...


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> I'm not sure if that is in response to my post or not, but I just wanted to clarify what I actually said, just in case.


no no not you... from another thread and generally from the feel of certain popular media, bbc and various other programmes. Sorry if you thought I was picking up on you!


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Maggie lost the right to respect when she committed her atrocities against the british (and other nations). Whether you agree with me or not, its my opinion.


But it's not respect for Maggie you are showing, it's respect for those grieving. As I stated, Maggie couldn't care less.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> Do you think so?
> 
> I dont know anyone who is planning to attend who were those who suffered, although facebook seems full of teenagers and young adults who are planning on going and I dont think any of these were even born when thatcher was in power.
> 
> I do agree with the principles of the protest, dont get me wrong. I hated Thatcher, and feel much better now she is dead n gone! I had a wee drink in private the night she went (and maybe a little dance around the kitchen when the radio played tonights gonna be a good night  ). I detest the fact that my money is going on her funeral, and I would join a protest if I could be sure it would be peaceful. However I dislike all forms of violence and I can imagine it will descend into that.


*I honestly believe there will be many that will be there that were under her rule, that didn't like her. And this will be their way of saying " good riddance".*


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I was on the Poll Tax protests and that was supposed to be peaceful but once a few really militant folk started all hell broke lose,blood and bodies all over the place,so does'nt take much to set thing off:001_unsure:


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> "I too am sick to death of things like this. But this group are not the majority they are just trouble makers. What would I do if I had the chance? I'd send our soldiers onto the streets of Wootton Bassett and let them defend the memories of their mates."
> 
> Which PF member said this re the topic of Muslim extremists protesting against the funerals processions of British soldiers killed in Afghanistan???????
> 
> Disrupting funerals is disgusting, sick and offensive - no matter who is doing the protesting...


I think you will find that the muslim protests were never to interrupt a funeral?

Lets make sure the facts are correct. They planned on marching through the town taking the same route carrying empty coffins... not to interrupted a repatriation of a serviceman. The protest was supposed to honour the muslim dead in afghanistan... although most believe it was just a media stunt.

Whilst I found it distasteful and abhorrent, they do have the right to peaceful protect - even if I (or you) disagree with it. The protest was cancelled, and word on the ground was due to the threats of violence against the protesters.

I live about 10min from Wootton Bassett and have attended numerous repatriations, and it fills me with a sense of honour to give a little something back to the servicemen and their families who made the ultimate sacrifice.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

suewhite said:


> I was on the Poll Tax protests and that was supposed to be peaceful but once a few really militant folk started all hell broke lose,blood and bodies all over the place,so does'nt take much to set thing off:001_unsure:


thats my worry too.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *I honestly believe there will be many that will be there that were under her rule, that didn't like her. And this will be their way of saying " good riddance".*


And I will be supporting them in spirit... I just hope it stays peaceful


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suewhite said:


> I was on the Poll Tax protests and that was supposed to be peaceful but once a few really militant folk started all hell broke lose,blood and bodies all over the place,so does'nt take much to set thing off:001_unsure:


*To be fair Sue, the police had a lot to answer for during the poll tax riots. Good and bad on both sides.*


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

The eyes of the world will be upon us when watching this funeral. Visiting dignitaries from all over the world will be in attendance.

What glorious picture of this nation are they going to be leaving with after these protests take place?

People may say "I don't care what other people & countrires think...." Really? Because they will care soon enough if these countries choose not to do business with us and jobs are lost due to lack of demand.

This is more than just a funeral but the narrow-minded and bigoted just can't see it. 

This is an exercise in the maturity and metality of the British nation. One, I fear, we are going to fail an a mammoth way.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I dont agree with protests at any funeral tbh. It uncomfortably borders on Westboro Baptist Church ground...

As much as a tirant she may be, she was a mother and a grandmother. A funeral is no place for politcal protest :/


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> I live about 10min from Wootton Bassett and have attended numerous repatriations, and it fills me with a sense of honour to give a little something back to the servicemen and their families who made the ultimate sacrifice.


And yet, Maggie was the first PM to honour these brave men and women by giving them a decent wage and the tools and uniforms with which to fight and protect themselves.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *To be fair Sue, the police had a lot to answer for during the poll tax riots. Good and bad on both sides.*


Agree but surley that said will be the same at the funeral


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

MoggyBaby said:


> The eyes of the world will be upon us when watching this funeral. Visiting dignitaries from all over the world will be in attendance.
> 
> What glorious picture of this nation are they going to be leaving with after these protests take place?
> 
> ...


*I for one am pleased the world will be watching. Perhaps they will open their eyes and see, she wasn't all that some have cracked her up to be.*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suewhite said:


> Agree but surley that said will be the same at the funeral


*That's why i said in my 1st post, i think the police will inflame the situation.I just think from what has been said, they might as well as waved a red flag.*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> The eyes of the world will be upon us when watching this funeral. Visiting dignitaries from all over the world will be in attendance.
> 
> What glorious picture of this nation are they going to be leaving with after these protests take place?
> 
> ...


errrm

I expect the same as every other country who is/has striked or protested against its gvt.

Germany had several airports closed a couple of weeks ago due to strikes

The tunisian politicians funeral - ooh lots of protests there too!

France - mass protests both for and against gay marriage... only a few weeks ago too!

Polish citizens protested at their leaders funeral in 2010!

Perhaps we should do what they do in syria? Mourners at a funeral for anti-regiem protesters were shot and killed by the military!

EDIT!

Just found out there were mass protests at Regans funeral - cant say I remember that either, and the world was watching then (22 million on tv according to google)

There are several photos of protesters opening champagne at the funeral of Kim Jong II


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## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

MoggyBaby said:


> I would expect this action is being taken out of respect to her family who loved her and are grieving.
> 
> A funeral is a solemn and sad affair - regardless of who it is - and is no place for any kind of protest.


I agree, a funeral is a time for family and friends to grieve and should be treated as such.

This should not be a state funeral funded by the public purse, but because it is people feel that they have the right to protest.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> I think you will find that the muslim protests were never to interrupt a funeral?
> 
> Lets make sure the facts are correct. They planned on marching through the town taking the same route carrying empty coffins... not to interrupted a repatriation of a serviceman. The protest was supposed to honour the muslim dead in afghanistan... although most believe it was just a media stunt.
> 
> ...


"Protesting against the funeral processions" It was mockery of the dead.

'Honouring the Muslim dead'. Who they said had been deliberately killed by our soldiers, whom they called "butchers" and "murderers".


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *That's why i said in my 1st post, i think the police will inflame the situation.I just think from what has been said, they might as well as waved a red flag.*


I am no fan of the Police generally but I can see that whatever stance they take on MTs funeral....they will attract crticism. They will be wrong whatever.

Sorry but a funeral is NOT the place for ANY protest...peaceful or otherwise. To me anybody that thinks it is imho lacks dignity and class...a decent human being would have empathy and understanding for MTs family...whether they liked MT or not. Its called behaving like an adult (hence majority of protestors being big kids) Save the protests for another day and dont make a show of this Country is my opinion.

Hope the Police take the stance of zero tolerance....kick the protestors arses in a cell the minute they step out of line and have them in front of the Magistrates. A hefty fine/community service and a conviction on their record may teach the insensitive, immature little g1ts a lesson:sneaky2:


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> "Protesting against the funeral processions" It was mockery of the dead.
> 
> 'Honouring the Muslim dead'. Who they said had been deliberately killed by our soldiers, whom they called "butchers" and "murderers".


I didnt EVER say I agreed with them, just that they have the right to protest!


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> "I too am sick to death of things like this. But this group are not the majority they are just trouble makers. What would I do if I had the chance? I'd send our soldiers onto the streets of Wootton Bassett and let them defend the memories of their mates."
> 
> Which PF member said this re the topic of Muslim extremists protesting against the funerals processions of British soldiers killed in Afghanistan???????
> 
> Disrupting funerals is disgusting, sick and offensive - no matter who is doing the protesting...


Janice, it was you who said that! 
It was part of a wider campaign if you recall. Muslim extremists rejoicing in and mocking the deaths of British servicemen and saying they hoped they burned in hell. Shades of the Thatcher hate campaign.

Mocking the dead is distasteful and thoroughly dishonourable. No matter who is doing it.

You condone protests at Mrs Thatcher's funeral. And if Muslim extremists wanted to protest at a soldier's funeral? On this evidence you clearly wouldn't condone that. Double standards!

As I said, disrupting a funeral is disgusting, sick and offensive and there is no place for it in a civilized country.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> Janice, it was you who said that!
> It was part of a wider campaign if you recall. Muslim extremists rejoicing in and mocking the deaths of British servicemen and saying they hoped they burned in hell. Shades of the Thatcher hate campaign.
> 
> Mocking the dead is distasteful and thoroughly dishonourable. No matter who is doing it.
> ...




Is this little bit of vitriol aimed at me? or Just Janice?

Janice, there never was a protest aimed for during a repatriation.... ever. The phelps tried to come into the country, but were denied entry.

As I keep saying!

I understand (and agree) with the reasons for protesting Thatchers funeral

I disagree with the reasons for the muslim wootton bassett march (NOT AT A FUNERAL! remember? it was not planned for during a repatriation!)

However Everyone should have the right to protest against something they do not believe in, or to stand up for something they do.

As another poster once said.... I will stand up - even if I am the only one standing.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> Janice, it was you who said that!
> It was part of a wider campaign if you recall. Muslim extremists rejoicing in and mocking the deaths of British servicemen and saying they hoped they burned in hell. Shades of the Thatcher hate campaign.
> 
> Mocking the dead is distasteful and thoroughly dishonourable. No matter who is doing it.
> ...


*Sorry i'm honestly confused. Which bit did i say, and where?*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Sorry i'm honestly confused. Which bit did i say, and where?*


I did a search and couldnt find the quoted bit. Will wait for the link


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

Im sorry but I believe people do have the right to protest at her funeral. here are my reasons 
1. She was pm, there for willingly put herself up for public scrutiny
2. she is not your regular person, she was hated by many people in this country
3. If she wanted a peaceful, respectful and non-judgemental funeral then she should have had a private low key ceremony..... nope she requested a ceremonial funeral
4. We live in a country that supports freedom of speech.
5. No action was taken when Muslim extremists shouted abuse and caused so much destruction to a funeral procession of fallen soldiers. If they allowed this then how can they stop people protesting at Thatchers funeral? one rule for one eh? 
6. A funeral is all about remembering a persons life, she ruined a lot of peoples lives so why shouldn't they have a say?
7. This funeral is funded by us..... therefore we should be able to decide exactly what happens. Yet again I ask why if people don't want protesters then why don't her family pay out of their own pockets for a funeral. 
8. I wonder if we were under a different government if protesters would be allowed their right to protest. 

I do not agree with anyone causing trouble at her funeral, if they do then they deserve to be arrested. Peaceful protests however should be allowed. 

Oh and the difference between Thatcher and the soldiers that had their funeral ruined, is Thatcher chose her position in this country, she became a PUBLIC figure. The soldiers however are ordinary men that gave their lives, how they lived their life or what they believed in is for no one to question.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> I did a search and couldnt find the quoted bit. Will wait for the link


*Thank you.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

In relation to the placards i think its only right that they should be taken down, as a remark of respect to her family also there will be people there that liked and respected her and could fuel problems there. There is nothing to gain by even being there if it isnt due to a mark of respect so they should stay away, no good can come of anyone just going to make/cause trouble.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Marley boy said:


> Im sorry but I believe people do have the right to protest at her funeral. here are my reasons
> 1. She was pm, there for willingly put herself up for public scrutiny
> 2. she is not your regular person, she was hated by many people in this country
> 3. If she wanted a peaceful, respectful and non-judgemental funeral then she should have had a private low key ceremony..... nope she requested a ceremonial funeral
> ...


*I agree with all you have said, apart from the part i have highlighted.*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> In relation to the placards i think its only right that they should be taken down, as a remark of respect to her family also there will be people there that liked and respected her and could fuel problems there. There is nothing to gain by even being there if it isnt due to a mark of respect so they should stay away, no good can come of anyone just going to make/cause trouble.


*For some people there is a lot to be gained. It will be the day there is closure to some very bad times in their lives.*


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Personally I don't think it would make any difference what type of funeral was held, if it was purely a private one funded wholly by the family you would still get individuals who feel it appropriate to wave placards and yell abuse


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *For some people there is a lot to be gained. It will be the day there is closure to some very bad times in their lives.*


The closure could/should if need be have been done when she was no longer voted into power, what is there to be gained now, for gods sake its a dead person in a box, no one by protesting,using hurtful words can hurt her now, but how awful for her poor family, i just think its absolutely dispicable the way people are dealing with this ime shocked and ashamed at the people of this country


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *For some people there is a lot to be gained. It will be the day there is closure to some very bad times in their lives.*


But surely the closure came when she actually died....that is when most people find closure -isnt that the ultimate punishment for someone hated - death?

There are other more dignified ways of finding closure IMO ...


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

For many of the protesters it is not for closure they will just move onto there next venue,I had closure years ago got on with my life and certainly would'nt want to go shouting and raving at a corpse being driven round London


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> The closure could/should if need be have been done when she was no longer voted into power, what is there to be gained now, for gods sake its a dead person in a box, no one by protesting,using hurtful words can hurt her now, but how awful for her poor family, i just think its absolutely dispicable the way people are dealing with this ime shocked and ashamed at the people of this country





suzy93074 said:


> But surely the closure came when she actually died....that is when most people find closure -isnt that the ultimate punishment for someone hated - death?
> 
> There are other more dignified ways of finding closure IMO ...


*Just because she is dead doesn't mean people will/ can forget. As for the ultimate punishment is death, well it wasn't a punishment, it was nature taking its course.
From a personal point of view, i don't give two hoots that she has gone. I don't hate the woman, but i do understand why others do.*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> But surely the closure came when she actually died....that is when most people find closure -isnt that the ultimate punishment for someone hated - death?
> 
> There are other more dignified ways of finding closure IMO ...


Which is why I am not going, even though most people suggest that its the funeral which offers closure, I felt it the day she died.

However for those protesting at the funeral being publicly funded, I am with them in spirit.... and will be there in spirit too if TB gets a state/ceremonial funeral. I would be there in person if I didnt feel it would fall into violence and anarchy - which is neither right for her legacy (makes us the yobs she always believed we were) nor respectful to the lives and communities she destroyed.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *For some people there is a lot to be gained. It will be the day there is closure to some very bad times in their lives.*


I always thought the Thatcher years were great, sink the Belgrano, shut the pits, slap Scargill, yuppies, selling council houses, Poll tax...never a dull moment


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Just listening to the radio and i think the police are taking the wrong approach to people that are going to protest.
> A police officer has just said that if people hold up placards they will be asked to take them down, or the police will remove them. Also anyone chanting ect. will be dealt with.
> This i fear will inflame the situation.
> Thoughts?*


Janice199: you are probably right, it doesn't take much to set some of them off, but this is a funeral, there's a family to consider, and if only their sakes, not necessarily for Mrs. Thatcher's, I think there should be some respect. The best way to make a point about someone at their funeral if you hated them would be to stay away. have a celebration drink in a pub maybe. But as we all know there is a certain bunch who are professional wreckers of peaceful protests and they spoil it for everyone.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> I always thought the Thatcher years were great, sink the Belgrano, shut the pits, slap Scargill, yuppies, selling council houses, Poll tax...never a dull moment


And your allowed to air those thoughts! Just as others who disagree are allowed to air theirs!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I personally wouldnt want and wont be watching it, what a total embarassment for this country and would feel so bad seeing the poor family put through this.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> I always thought the Thatcher years were great, sink the Belgrano, shut the pits, slap Scargill, yuppies, selling council houses, Poll tax...never a dull moment


You could make a film with that lot!!!!


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *For some people there is a lot to be gained. It will be the day there is closure to some very bad times in their lives.*


But I thought they had gotten closure last week when she died!!

How many closures do they need????


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Calvine said:


> Janice199: you are probably right, it doesn't take much to set some of them off, but this is a funeral, there's a family to consider, and if only their sakes, not necessarily for Mrs. Thatcher's, I think there should be some respect. The best way to make a point about someone at their funeral if you hated them would be to stay away. have a celebration drink in a pub maybe. But as we all know there is a certain bunch who are professional wreckers of peaceful protests and they spoil it for everyone.


*The trouble imo. is that MT didn't show people respect when they were suffering under her government. And i believe that is why feeling are running high now she has gone.
I've never been one to think you should show respect to someone just because they have died. I'm not a hypocrite. If people wanted to show respect then it's when someone is alive, surely?*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Just because she is dead doesn't mean people will/ can forget. As for the ultimate punishment is death, well it wasn't a punishment, it was nature taking its course.
> From a personal point of view, i don't give two hoots that she has gone. I don't hate the woman, but i do understand why others do.*


I dont think anyone should forget ...but closure is about letting go ...not harbouring hate in your heart


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> I always thought the Thatcher years were great, sink the Belgrano, shut the pits, slap Scargill, yuppies, selling council houses, Poll tax...never a dull moment


*Oh your talking about when 300+ people were killed under Thatchers rule. Still being disputed to this day as far as i'm aware.*


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> Is this little bit of vitriol aimed at me? or Just Janice?


There was no "little bit of vitriol" aimed at you or anybody. I didn't even mention you did I? And I didn't accuse you of agreeing with the extremists in my previous post either.

People have a right to protest you say - peaceful protest. They do, but there is a time and a place...


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

And how do you differentiate those that have valid reasons for peaceful protesting and the people who are there just to cause trouble? some people need no excuse


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Sorry i'm honestly confused. Which bit did i say, and where?*


http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/80121-so-disrespectful.html

Disrespectful to the dead....


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> I dont think anyone should forget ...but closure is about letting go ...not harbouring hate in your heart


*Seriously Suzy, would you be saying that if your family lost everything they had worked damned hard for?*


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

grumpy goby said:


> I dont agree with protests at any funeral tbh. It uncomfortably borders on Westboro Baptist Church ground...


the main difference being that one is based on fairy tales on the other is based on reality.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> How many closures do they need????


As many as they can to try to simply play politics. For the vast majority it's not about closure, it's simply wanting to be seen or an excuse. For the remainder who actually felt they suffered, the hatred will remain, it will simply find another easy target. Hope, for mining communities it will be Scargill.

That 4 year old leading one of the parties will probably look forward to final closure in around 14 years at a guess.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> There was no "little bit of vitriol" aimed at you or anybody. I didn't even mention you did I? And I didn't accuse you of agreeing with the extremists in my previous post either.
> 
> People have a right to protest you say - peaceful protest. They do, but there is a time and a place...


For those protesting about the public funding of a hated leaders funeral (thats how they feel remember) - what better time or place than at the said funeral?

For those venting their feelings against the leader they hated - what better time or place than at her very public funeral?

For the tunisian polician (their version of eddie) the only bad press about the protests has been the violence that erupted in what had up until that moment been peaceful and dignified protestations at his funeral.

My biggest worry about the Thatcher protests is that some fecking idiot yahoo's will think its a great excuse for a scrap and a bit of looting/destruction. Those that do fall into the fights are not going to be the ones there with the strong emotions of Thatcher or the cost of the funeral, they will be there purely and only to kick off!


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *The trouble imo. is that MT didn't show people respect when they were suffering under her government. And i believe that is why feeling are running high now she has gone.
> I've never been one to think you should show respect to someone just because they have died. I'm not a hypocrite. If people wanted to show respect then it's when someone is alive, surely?*


I agree Jan you dont show (not you personally)respect neither should you show disrespect just ignore completely,there have been plenty of times she was out and about that they could have let her know there feelings in the last 20 years but cant remember that they did


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## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I think any protests will be extremely disrespectful, not to Maggie but to her family. They are the ones grieving, and they are the ones who simply want to say goodbye to their loved one. This is their time. 

I am sorry but I think any protests at her funeral are utterly disgusting, and those people need to seriously take a long hard look at what kind of person they are, and what kind of person they want to be.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/80121-so-disrespectful.html
> 
> Disrespectful to the dead....


*Ah now you have shown the link i will still stand by what i wrote. I will only say this, when in Rome. But only because i don't want this to go off topic.*


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## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)




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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> For those protesting about the public funding of a hated leaders funeral (thats how they feel remember) - what better time or place than at the said funeral?
> 
> For those venting their feelings against the leader they hated - what better time or place than at her very public funeral?
> 
> ...


*That is the trouble, those few idiots that will cause trouble for the sake of it. Which will undermine anything those with a real grievance.*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Ah now you have shown the link i will still stand by what i wrote. I will only say this, when in Rome. But only because i don't want this to go off topic.*


To be honest janice now reading exactly what you put... its not that much different to what you have said here, except that time you would have preferred it to kick off!

If the muslim march had taken place, and had the rest of the public retaliiated at least it would have been based on the strength of their convictions.... not as I suspect any rioting will be with regards to Thatcher, that will just be the yobs looking for a fight.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Just because she is dead doesn't mean people will/ can forget. As for the ultimate punishment is death, well it wasn't a punishment, it was nature taking its course.
> From a personal point of view, i don't give two hoots that she has gone. I don't hate the woman, but i do understand why others do.*


To hate someone is bad. To hate for 30 years....

I never voted for her. In my book, the sale of the council houses was basically gerrymandering and were it not for penny-pinching, which suggested to the Argentinians we didn't care about the Falklands, the Falklands War would probably never have happened. But it's not about politics,and it certainly isn't anything personal, it's about *basic human decency*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Seriously Suzy, would you be saying that if your family lost everything they had worked damned hard for?*


The miners was losing everything before MG came in. I remember the days of sat in the cold, no light, schools closing, only emergency operations carried out in hospitals because at the drop of a hat A S had the miners out on strike, striking for unreasonable, unsustainable wage rises. The trade unions were leading this country to ruin. Ime not saying everything she did was for the good, but then who has before and after her. Ime sure whoever has been in power has done,made decisions that has caused families hardship. The bleeting on about the miners quite frankly makes me sick as sick as the thought of whats going to happen at this funeral, its disgusting.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Seriously Suzy, would you be saying that if your family lost everything they had worked damned hard for?*


YES Jan I would ...cos they taught me to be a better person than that - as I have said I was a young girl when MT was in power but I do remember the miners where I lived and the devastation some had to endure ...im NOT denying she got things massively wrong as do most PM's .....but 20 yrs have passed - she is now dead and people need to move on with their life - surely that is the best way to get closure ?? to carry on regardless and suceed at what you want to do ?? living with the hate inside and going to a funeral to show that hate is not healthy and I no matter how I hated someone I would not do it!


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> *basic human decency*


hmmm

The only basic human and decent thing maggie ever did was to ensure our armed forces were given the pay packet they deserved.

just my opinion


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> To hate someone is bad. To hate for 30 years....
> 
> I never voted for her. In my book, the sale of the council houses was basically gerrymandering and were it not for penny-pinching, which suggested to the Argentinians we didn't care about the Falklands, the Falklands War would probably never have happened. But it's not about politics,and it certainly isn't anything personal, it's about *basic human decency*


*As i have said, i don't/ didn't hate her. I hated what she did to some people though. As for the Falklands, " i agreed " with that war. But only in as much we were defending British people. But i hate wars full stop.
Again, where did " decency " come into play when she destroyed whole communities and families? Sorry but if she could dish it out, then she should have expected this outcry.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *That is the trouble, those few idiots that will cause trouble for the sake of it. Which will undermine anything those with a real grievance.*


I honestly think its the other way round, the majority will be the ones just going for the trouble, the ones with the real grievances have shown already, verbally what they thought of her and how pleased they are she is dead.


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *I agree with all you have said, apart from the part i have highlighted.*


that's fair enough, i respect your right to highlight and disagree


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> hmmm
> 
> The only basic human and decent thing maggie ever did was to ensure our armed forces were given the pay packet they deserved.
> 
> just my opinion


Oh for goodness sake youl have riots at ya door for mentioning the good.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *As i have said, i don't/ didn't hate her. I hated what she did to some people though. As for the Falklands, " i agreed " with that war. But only in as much we were defending British people. But i hate wars full stop.
> Again, where did " decency " come into play when she destroyed whole communities and families? Sorry but if she could dish it out, then she should have expected this outcry.*


But communities were becoming very divided before she came in, many people didnt/couldnt afford the strikes but in them days no one dare confront or go against the trade unions, to be branded a SCAB in those days was dangerous business. So many didnt want to strike and lose money. She basically finished what authur scargill started, things would have been much worse for people that had no connection with the pits, if she hadnt have put a stop to it.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

So the protesters are showing they're no better than the woman they're protesting against. She never showed any human decency so they're not going to show any to a grieving family . They're perfectly entitled to disagree with what she did, they're entitled to hate her even but a funeral is not the place to show that.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> But communities were becoming very divided before she came in, many people didnt/couldnt afford the strikes but in them days no one dare confront or go against the trade unions, to be branded a SCAB in those days was dangerous business. So many didnt want to strike and lose money.


Sadly very true and for good reason - if I recall correctly a tax driver was murdered taking a "scab" to work.


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## Marley boy (Sep 6, 2010)

oh and I was always taught that you earn respect, not just get given it because your dead.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Sadly very true and for good reason - if I recall correctly a tax driver was murdered taking a "scab" to work.


Ye frightening the power the trade unions had. Many miners will and have agreed the days of the all out strikes put them in real hardship, yes when a lot of pit closed more faced hardship but some old miners will agree that (and i come from one of the biggest mining areas in the country) the unions had pushed it too far.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> But communities were becoming very divided before she came in, many people didnt/couldnt afford the strikes but in them days no one dare confront or go against the trade unions, to be branded a SCAB in those days was dangerous business. So many didnt want to strike and lose money. She basically finished what authur scargill started, things would have been much worse for people that had no connection with the pits, if she hadnt have put a stop to it.


*For ANY prime minister of this country to deal with the situation the way MT did was what OUR government are now criticizing other countries for doing. How can it be right to stop food and money getting to those in need? Yes that's what MT did.
Respect her? Not in a million years.*


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Lots of my parents friends will be watching the Funeral and my parents.l, and although i'm not bothered about her passing, I hope out of respect there aren't any riots. How would the rioters feel if it was their family member ..


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> The miners was losing everything before MG came in. I remember the days of sat in the cold, no light, schools closing, only emergency operations carried out in hospitals because at the drop of a hat A S had the miners out on strike, striking for unreasonable, unsustainable wage rises. The trade unions were leading this country to ruin. Ime not saying everything she did was for the good, but then who has before and after her. Ime sure whoever has been in power has done,made decisions that has caused families hardship. The bleeting on about the miners quite frankly makes me sick as sick as the thought of whats going to happen at this funeral, its disgusting.


shall i say it again?

*Labour closed 326 pits before MT came to power, she then closed 154*

but lets not put fact before fiction


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Marley boy said:


> oh and I was always taught that you earn respect, not just get given it because your dead.


Yes respect is earnt.....I dont think anyone is asking for those who who were affected by MT to respect HER ....but simply to respect the fact she IS entitled to a funeral where she can be mourned by her family and friends like everyone has ....


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Marley boy said:


> oh and I was always taught that you earn respect, not just get given it because your dead.


What about respect for her family? They are the ones grieving. They neither chose their mother nor her career but they still loved and cared for her. More innocent victims but it seems very few are prepared to care about them.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Loads of central London will be closed off, all those lucky office workers taking the day off work ! lol

And i'll say it again I hope out of respect there are NO riots. NOT the time or place.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *For ANY prime minister of this country to deal with the situation the way MT did was what OUR government are now criticizing other countries for doing. How can it be right to stop food and money getting to those in need? Yes that's what MT did.
> Respect her? Not in a million years.*


What food did she block?

So MT was a Mugabe or Comic KIm then? (basically)


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

willa said:


> Loads of central London will be closed off, all those lucky office workers taking the day off work ! lol


they would have the best seats in town, the TV crews will be busy

popcorn on standby


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> What food did she block?
> 
> So MT was a Mugabe or Comic KIm then? (basically)


*You have the www at your finger tips. Look it up.*


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> Yes respect is earnt.....I dont think anyone is asking for those who who were affected by MT to respect HER


Though they should *respect themselves* and consider what they say and do...


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *You have the www at your finger tips. Look it up.*





> In the months before Margaret Thatcher came to power, high piles of garbage and food waste blocked pavements in central London, which were used as a dumping ground when trash collectors went on strike. Gravediggers were among those who also took unofficial industrial action.


nope......


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *For ANY prime minister of this country to deal with the situation the way MT did was what OUR government are now criticizing other countries for doing. How can it be right to stop food and money getting to those in need? Yes that's what MT did.
> Respect her? Not in a million years.*


I dont know about the food and money so cant comment, but the miners themselves were stopping money so inevitably food from their own families, every hour they were striking.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> Sadly very true and for good reason - if I recall correctly a tax driver was murdered taking a "scab" to work.


and the two who died on the picket lines? Not worthy of mention I suppose!

Murder happens all over the place and knows no class boundaries.

15000 miners went to the Funerals of Davie Jones and Joe Green... and yes even they had protests at their funerals!


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

The chimes of Big Ben will be silenced for the duration of Baroness Thatcher's funeral, House of Commons Speaker John Bercow has announced.

He told MPs this would be "an appropriate means of indicating our sentiments" during the occasion.

There was a "profound dignity through silence," Mr Bercow added.

The silence will last throughout events on Wednesday, covering the procession from Westminster and the ceremony at St Paul's Cathedral.

The chiming of Big Ben, the bell of the clock tower of the Palace of Westminster, is one of London's most famous sounds.

I'm really getting pis***d off now, why the hell are they doing that.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Happy Paws said:


> I'm really getting pis***d off now, why the hell are they doing that.


*to pish off Yorkshire....lol*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> I dont know about the food and money so cant comment, but the miners themselves were stopping money so inevitably food from their own families, every hour they were striking.


*MT stopped food getting to the striking miners. She had the MET. police in place to do that.
Now how we as a country condone that, but then condemn countries that are doing the same?*


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

We can all argue till the cows come home. Yes, people will feel entitled to a so called "peaceful" protest, but they can do this any time, and their protest could still be held but also respect that MTs funeral is not the time or place for it to take place. Purely on behalf of her family I feel it is totally disrespectful and shameful. If it wasnt a protest regarding the cost to the tax payer, it would be a protest about something else. Janice said that she couldnt care less what people do, but also intimates that people will hold a grudge because of her hard line policies. THEREFORE, PEOPLE WILL FIND *ANY* EXCUSE TO HAVE A PUNCH UP AND WILL THEN BLAME THE POLICE, THE GOVERNMENT, MT HERSELF ETC FOR THE RESULTANT MAYHEM!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Janice could I ask would you want to go back to how this country was in the 70's? It was pretty dire, vertually all major industry was nationalised and very very unprofitable - if you know the good old tax payer will keep bailing out your failing loss making then you just keep on down the same road.

This makes interesting reading

The Miners: Thatcher vs Wilson | @Lord_Palmerston


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *MT stopped food getting to the striking miners. She had the MET. police in place to do that.
> Now how we as a country condone that, but then condemn countries that are doing the same?*


She also stopped foreign aid getting to the miners


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> shall i say it again?
> 
> *Labour closed 326 pits before MT came to power, she then closed 154*
> 
> but lets not put fact before fiction


Yep they did, without any of the issues that Thatcher brought about! Wonder why?


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> What about respect for her family? They are the ones grieving. They neither chose their mother nor her career but they still loved and cared for her. More innocent victims but it seems very few are prepared to care about them.


Then let em bury her!

From their own bluddy pocket!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> Janice could I ask would you want to go back to how this country was in the 70's? It was pretty dire, vertually all major industry was nationalised and very very unprofitable - if you know the good old tax payer will keep bailing out your failing loss making then you just keep on down the same road.
> 
> This makes interesting reading
> 
> The Miners: Thatcher vs Wilson | @Lord_Palmerston


*Hand on heart yes i would. Of course there were bad times, but i guess i came from an age where we didn't expect our lives to be a bed of roses, ( as my dad always said).
I don't mind going through hard times, it makes us stronger imho. But what MT did was cruel, and she sold "her" people short. And Cameron is doing the same.
If the working class of this country dare to forget their roots, god help them.*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> What food did she block?
> 
> So MT was a Mugabe or Comic KIm then? (basically)


She impounded all the russian food parcels at Hull


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Hand on heart yes i would. Of course there were bad times, but i guess i came from an age where we didn't expect our lives to be a bed of roses, ( as my dad always said).
> I don't mind going through hard times, it makes us stronger imho. But what MT did was cruel, and she sold "her" people short. And Cameron is doing the same.
> If the working class of this country dare to forget their roots, god help them.*


Maybe if Labour had worked for the good of the country there would have a been a steady closure of unprofitable businesses but by the time they had let the UK get on its knees only drastic action could drag us out of the poop?

None of those constantly striking gave a thought for all the other workers (not in nationalised industry) who suffered hardship because they couldn't work because of all the power cuts etc etc


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> Maybe if Labour had worked for the good of the country there would have a been a steady closure of unprofitable businesses but by the time they had let the UK get on its knees only drastic action could drag us out of the poop?
> 
> None of those constantly striking gave a thought for all the other workers (not in nationalised industry) who suffered hardship because they couldn't work because of all the power cuts etc etc


*Seriously Doodles, how do you think people would react if these things happened today? Perhaps on the day of her funeral a fitting tribute would be to bring some of the things back. ie. power cuts. People would be throwing their dummies out of their prams just because they couldn't get on PF, let alone the internet.*


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Seriously Doodles, how do you think people would react if these things happened today? Perhaps on the day of her funeral a fitting tribute would be to bring some of the things back. ie. power cuts. People would be throwing their dummies out of their prams just because they couldn't get on PF, let alone the internet.*


I actually don't think most people would accept all the major industries being under government control anymore - I watched something the other day and had forgotton just how much was nationalised - coal, steel, transport, telecommunications even the car industry. We might has well have lived in a communist country! Big business is usually wasteful and often corrupt.

I can see why it was done after the war but it went to far - basically the ordinary working man (or woman lol) was under state control from cradle to the grave from where you worked to where you lived with little chance of improvement. One chap on the programme said that if your parents had crappy jobs and crappy lives & lived in crappy housing you were destined to have the same


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

*One thing she taught younger people when she was in power, was self first, second and last, and as long as we've got loads of money to hell with everyone else, and that what is wrong with the country now.*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> I actually don't think most people would accept all the major industries being under government control anymore - I watched something the other day and had forgotton just how much was nationalised - coal, steel, transport, telecommunications even the car industry. We might has well have lived in a communist country! Big business is usually wasteful and often corrupt.
> 
> I can see why it was done after the war but it went to far - basically the ordinary working man (or woman lol) was under state control from cradle to the grave from where you worked to where you lived with little chance of improvement. One chap on the programme said that if your parents had crappy jobs and crappy lives & lived in crappy housing you were destined to have the same


*Now that's interesting. I came from a working class background. My dad was a shipwright in the dockyard, mum had left 9 of us. Oh and for the record i was born 1950, 4 years BEFORE rationing ended in the UK.
My dad rented our home from a local guy.
Hubby and i bought our home under the right to buy. But we knew we were taking a risk. I wish to god my dad had been around to know we had purchased our house. But to get to the point, i'm from working class and will be working class until they bury/cremate me.*


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> *One did one thing she taught younger people when she was in power, was self first, second and last, and as long as we've got loads of money to hell with everyone else, and that what is wrong with the country now.*


Wrong... parents teach that. It's the lack of religious values, not MT which has caused that decline. Ever noticed money is the new religion. It's also not just in the UK..

You could also say that was the unions attitude.. certainly wasn't concern for the rest of the UK population. As far as I am concerned MT taught that you have to be realistic in life and if you expect anything you have to work for it.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *I for one am pleased the world will be watching. Perhaps they will open their eyes and see, she wasn't all that some have cracked her up to be.*


Oh don't be so silly lol

They will see that they saw at the last riots over there, kids wrecking and robbing businesses, as they did in your last riots.

The Americans love Maggie  That's not going to change...


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> One chap on the programme said that if your parents had crappy jobs and crappy lives & lived in crappy housing you were destined to have the same


Disagree

University education - tuition was paid for (well until 89), and students were given GRANTS not loans in order to cover living expenses. If you were smart, studied hard and went to uni, you achieve a new future and certainly didnt mean you would be stuck doing the same job as your parents.


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

nutty said:


> We can all argue till the cows come home. Yes, people will feel entitled to a so called "peaceful" protest, but they can do this any time, and their protest could still be held but also respect that MTs funeral is not the time or place for it to take place. Purely on behalf of her family I feel it is totally disrespectful and shameful. If it wasnt a protest regarding the cost to the tax payer, it would be a protest about something else. Janice said that she couldnt care less what people do, but also intimates that people will hold a grudge because of her hard line policies. THEREFORE, PEOPLE WILL FIND *ANY* EXCUSE TO HAVE A PUNCH UP AND WILL THEN BLAME THE POLICE, THE GOVERNMENT, MT HERSELF ETC FOR THE RESULTANT MAYHEM!





Happy Paws said:


> *One did one thing she taught younger people when she was in power, was self first, second and last, and as long as we've got loads of money to hell with everyone else, and that what is wrong with the country now.*


Actually the phrase was: 'It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, to look after our neighbour'


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

The world will be watching but janice i dont think it will open their eyes and see just what M T was it will open their eyes to what england houses a set of horrible, vile people that will cause so much distruction to their own country and have very little feeling for innocent people, after all no body with an ounce of self respect would do this at a funeral i dont care who's it is. They will also see it for what it is many,many of them taking the opportunity for a riot, they will see just how many yobs we have in our country its an absolute embarrassment.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

haeveymolly said:


> The world will be watching but janice i dont think it will open their eyes and see just what M T was it will open their eyes to what england houses a set of horrible, vile people that will cause so much distruction to their own country and have very little feeling for innocent people, after all no body with an ounce of self respect would do this at a funeral i dont care who's it is. They will also see it for what it is many,many of them taking the opportunity for a riot, they will see just how many yobs we have in our country its an absolute embarrassment.


Northern Ireland have untold troubles, still do, we had our bloody stupid flag protest of late, and given the tension of Northern Ireland at the best of times most were peaceful, annoying but peaceful.

We have been plastered all over the news for decades as being a pack of savages, but I think even we shook our head in amazement at the riots over in London, because while we do it, we certainly don't loot and rob and mug people...

This is a funeral, and it's unforgivable to show so little consideration for other people, sod it the woman is dead, let her poor family mourn, she was their family after all not a PM!! If there is trouble ( and there will be) the rest of the world will shake it's head in pity and disdain, that people of the UK could stoop so low and EVERYONE will be tarred with the same brush....

Ironic really given the racist comments on here in other threads tarring everyone with the same brush  there's that bloody Karma again


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Happy Paws said:


> *One did one thing she taught younger people when she was in power, was self first, second and last, and as long as we've got loads of money to hell with everyone else, and that what is wrong with the country now.*


Oh yes....cos the Country was in a marvellous state before MT was voted in...wasnt it???? NOT


Dont blame MT for the total tits running the Country now.....that is just silly. If they had half the balls she had...this Country wouldnt be in the state it is. The same goes for Blair and Brown...fine job they did between them *smh*

I am proud to say I dont know anyone that would even contemplate going to the funeral to protest peacefully...or otherwise...people I know tend to take responsibility for themselves and their own fortune or lack of it. No good living in the past...harbouring hatred. Doesnt help anybody.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chichi said:


> . No good living in the past...harbouring hatred. Doesnt help anybody.


I totally am with you on this one, the past is the past, life is too bloody short, just live it and love it.... Your still breathing, the breath people are using to complain so much about things could be a persons last breath..

You have an option to stop being unhappy and to start being happy. When you let yourself become unhappy, it is your choice and your responsibility. If you blame other people for making your lives miserable and unhappy, you dis-empower yourself and lose the ability to end your own misery and unhappiness.

Just bloody be happy with your lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Now that's interesting. I came from a working class background. My dad was a shipwright in the dockyard, mum had left 9 of us. Oh and for the record i was born 1950, 4 years BEFORE rationing ended in the UK.
> My dad rented our home from a local guy.
> Hubby and i bought our home under the right to buy. But we knew we were taking a risk. I wish to god my dad had been around to know we had purchased our house. But to get to the point, i'm from working class and will be working class until they bury/cremate me.*


So you managed to buy your house under the right to buy scheme. A scheme that MT brought in to help people get onto the property ladder, that otherwise wouldn't have had that chance.



JAChihuahua said:


> Disagree
> 
> University education - tuition was paid for (well until 89), and students were given GRANTS not loans in order to cover living expenses. If you were smart, studied hard and went to uni, you achieve a new future and certainly didnt mean you would be stuck doing the same job as your parents.


Mandatory Education grants were brought in in 1962. Harold Macmillan was the Conservative Prime Minister at that time. In 1980 the grants were increased from £380 to £1450. MT was the Conservative Prime Minister at that time.

So I guess you are both saying that access to higher education and the opportunity to get on the property ladder to make a better life for yourself and your family, was all made possible by Conservative governments.

Yep, thats definitely a good excuse to protest at a funeral, peaceful or not.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Just bloody be happy with your lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If not.. do something positive about it.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> So you managed to buy your house under the right to buy scheme. A scheme that MT brought in to help people get onto the property ladder, that otherwise wouldn't have had that chance.
> 
> Mandatory Education grants were brought in in 1962. Harold Macmillan was the Conservative Prime Minister at that time. In 1980 the grants were increased from £380 to £1450. MT was the Conservative Prime Minister at that time.
> 
> ...


eerm where did I claim it was labour or otherwise?

confused.com 

Not sure if you were paying attention, but my response was to someone who said that if you were poor, you would stay poor... I disagreed and posted the above to show why. My feelings about Maggie have f-all to do with university grants!


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> eerm where did I claim it was labour or otherwise?
> 
> confused.com
> 
> Not sure if you were paying attention, but my response was to someone who said that if you were poor, you would stay poor... I disagreed and posted the above to show why. My feelings about Maggie have f-all to do with university grants!


And where did I say that you said it was Labour?

You are saying how much you hate MT, and then say that uni grants were great as they helped stop people staying poor. I was just pointing out that MT more or less trebled the amount of money that was granted 

Or can you pick and choose which bits you want to hate?


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Or can you pick and choose which bits you want to hate?


Yep  sure can!


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Yep  sure can!


So in that case, its fair to say you hated some/most of her policies, but not the actual person herself


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> So in that case, its fair to say you hated some/most of her policies, but not the actual person herself


nope

Its fair to say I hated the woman and 99.9% of her policies.

The fact that she also removed the student grants makes it nul poi for me. I still say the only decent and human thing she did was to pay the armed forces a decent wage!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

How can people hate someone they don't even know??? Maybe hate what they stood for and their policies but the person themselves? I find that a bit ummm unsettling............... :001_unsure:


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> nope
> 
> Its fair to say I hated the woman and 99.9% of her policies.
> 
> The fact that she also removed the student grants makes it nul poi for me. I still say the only decent and human thing she did was to pay the armed forces a decent wage!


She froze the grants in 1989, but grants were still available for poorer students.

It was the Labour Government that actually got rid of them altogether.

Grants, loans and tuition fees: a timeline of how university funding has evolved - Telegraph


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> She froze the grants in 1989, but grants were still available for poorer students.
> 
> It was the Labour Government that actually got rid of them altogether.
> 
> Grants, loans and tuition fees: a timeline of how university funding has evolved - Telegraph


funny because as far as i am aware grants have always been available (and still are) to the poorer students. Nobody got rid of them altogether.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

JAChihuahua said:


> funny because as far as i am aware grants have always been available (and still are) to the poorer students. Nobody got rid of them altogether.


Grants were replaced by student loans. Welsh students can claim a grant towards equipment. Grants can be awarded under certain criteria I believe, but only to full time students, and will affect any maintenance loan you apply for.

Students studying A levels can apply for bursary, which replaced EMA. It has to be applied for through the college they are attending. Welsh students can apply for EMA.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Disagree
> 
> University education - tuition was paid for (well until 89), and students were given GRANTS not loans in order to cover living expenses. If you were smart, studied hard and went to uni, you achieve a new future and certainly didnt mean you would be stuck doing the same job as your parents.


when university was for really clever people with a purpose on what they were studying it was worthwhile & affordable, once it became just carry on in education for all & sundry then it just can't be afforded.



Meezey said:


> How can people hate someone they don't even know??? Maybe hate what they stood for and their policies but the person themselves? I find that a bit ummm unsettling............... :001_unsure:


My thoughts exactly - how can you hate someone you don't know.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> nope
> 
> Its fair to say I hated the woman and 99.9% of her policies.
> 
> *The fact that she also removed the student grants* makes it nul poi for me. I still say the only decent and human thing she did was to pay the armed forces a decent wage!





JAChihuahua said:


> funny because as far as i am aware *grants have always been available (and still are)* to the poorer students. *Nobody got rid of them* altogether.


Erm OK......


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Erm OK......


lol ok

The fact that she removed the vast majority of student grants.... happier now?


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## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

Ah another MT thread!

I seriously have to question what kind of people want to go and protest at a funeral.

It is fine to say you disagreed with her decisions as PM, fine to say you had no respect for her as a PM. However to attend a funeral and cause unpleasantness for those who _do_ want to pay their respects is, in my view, disgusting.

If mourners cannot even pay their respects uninterrupted then seriously what kind of society do we have?

There will be a large number if people out just to cause trouble.

Remember the recent riots in London? Disgusting behaviour and people out to cause trouble, steal, vandalise, destroy and frighten the innocent.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

I have read every post in this thread and I still can't work out what people will be 'protesting' about at Mrs T's funeral. Is it the fact of what she did/did not do when she was in power? Is it the fact that she was a horrible selfish person? Is it the fact that they just hate her because of what they think she did or have been told she did? Is it the fact that the tax-payer will be paying for her funeral? If the latter when a statesman/woman dies the tax-payer would be paying for their funeral anyway. 

Whatever they are going to protest about is not going to alter history one bit. Don't we protest when we think we can alter things for the good? What 'good' is protesting at Mrs T's funeral going to do? Will it make some people feel better? 

I went on a 'Ban the Bomb' march in London an awful long time ago. It was a peaceful march, we had peaceful marches in those days, nobody got hurt, or was insulted or caused riots and burnt banners or anything. We didn't need extra policing either in fact the policmen were quite friendly and good humoured. At the end of it we all felt better - though we didnt really achieve anything. But we were protesting about something not nothing. protesting at Mrs T's funeral is not going to alter anything for the better one jot, it's only going to upset her family. Do people want to do that, will it make them feel better? I think not. Perhaps if they 'protested' about all the starving children in the world - now that would be worth spending ones time and energy on.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Lel said:


> Ah another MT thread!
> 
> I seriously have to question what kind of people want to go and protest at a funeral.
> 
> ...


They need to turn the hoses on the lot of em!!!!!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JAC I actually find it quite fascinating that you bear grudges for what happened many years ago and blame MT for everything.

I am not from priviledged background, it would be classed as working class as you get actually. On mums side they came over from Ireland during the potato famine - am I still wrapped up in that, well no it was years and years ago. Grandad on that side worked in the pit, he got a shilling a week extra because he worked up to his knees in water - he was a very good footballer & could have played professionally but his mam made him go down the pit as he got more money. In the war because of his mining background he was in Birmingham & Coventry digging bodies out of the slums.

My Dad is 83 this year, he is one of eleven. His dad worked down the pit too, he also had a smallholding with a few cows and pigs - he would walk 8 miles to do a shift down the pit then walk home and milk the cows by hand - he had to have both because the pit work was hit and miss and he wouldn't always get any work.

My Dad was really really clever - his school did exams for scholarships and he came top in the whole county, still couldn't go because with all those children couldn't afford for him not to work as soon as he was able. Two of his elder sisters were actually in service!

Sh1te happens thats just the way it was then - its better if you get on with it and make the best of your life, make your ancestors proud to show their sacrifices were worth it because you have a better life now and don't have their hardships - even our worst case scenarious are not like it was


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> nope
> 
> Its fair to say I hated the woman and 99.9% of her policies.
> 
> The fact that she also removed the student grants makes it nul poi for me. I still say the only decent and human thing she did was to pay the armed forces a decent wage!


So you admit she did some good then...so why be so hateful?

If a family member were to get arrested by a Police Officer...would you HATE that person or just regard it that he was doing his job...just as MT was doing hers.

You didnt agree with her policies...fair enough....but to begrudge her a public funeral and to have a little dance and drink to her dying...to me is quite unbelievable. Its very unhealthy imho to carry that sort of hatred for years.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> JAC I actually find it quite fascinating that you bear grudges for what happened many years ago and blame MT for everything.
> 
> I am not from priviledged background, it would be classed as working class as you get actually. On mums side they came over from Ireland during the potato famine - am I still wrapped up in that, well no it was years and years ago. Grandad on that side worked in the pit, he got a shilling a week extra because he worked up to his knees in water - he was a very good footballer & could have played professionally but his mam made him go down the pit as he got more money. In the war because of his mining background he was in Birmingham & Coventry digging bodies out of the slums.
> 
> ...


Look, you have the right to your opinion, about me and everthing else for that matter. However I completely disagree that Thatcher was a case of "shite happens".

My Hate for Thatcher, doesn't define me, doesn't rule my life and hasn't made me the person I am today. It is such a small part of my being, however as events have unfolded I have shared that small part here, and rather cathartic it has been too. My celebration and closure came at her death, as I have said before and its why I am not protesting against her regime at her funeral. I would protest against the fact that its publicly funded (really sticks in my throat that) if I thought the protest wouldn't be overrun with idiots looking to pick fights.

Ive given my reasons in the other thread, so I wont bother repeating myself again and I dont judge you for your opinions. However I expect to be judged as I have been so open on a forum, but your opinion (or fascination) of me and my views will not change me or my opinions.

As one of the very few who has continued to stand up for my own beliefs on this thread and others, I will continue to stand alone, regardless of what you or others think of me.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

To be honest i dont really care what people thought of her, many reasons for hate i dont agree with but its the protesting, celebrating a death, chanting songs, people that would love to dance on her grave and much more obscenities ive heard over the last few days, i just find absolutely shocking, the hatred all these people have carried around for years to be honest i actually feel sorry for them in a way but then again they could also be envied the fact that these peoples lives over the past 20+yrs must have been so perfect because over that time some people have had so much tragedy in one way or another that something that happened 20+yrs ago will have just have paled into insignificance.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Look, you have the right to your opinion, about me and everthing else for that matter. However I completely disagree that Thatcher was a case of "shite happens".
> 
> My Hate for Thatcher, doesn't define me, doesn't rule my life and hasn't made me the person I am today. It is such a small part of my being, however as events have unfolded I have shared that small part here, and rather cathartic it has been too. My celebration and closure came at her death, as I have said before and its why I am not protesting against her regime at her funeral. I would protest against the fact that its publicly funded (really sticks in my throat that) if I thought the protest wouldn't be overrun with idiots looking to pick fights.
> 
> ...


I can't have an opinion about you personally as I don't know you, the bit I find fascinating is how our backgrounds/family form us as people and our opinions. Janice and I probably are not that different background wise, I should in theory be firmly in the same place, have the same views as both of you but I clearly don't.

I think that what Margaret Thatcher did at that time was right for the country as a whole, it was probably similar to the controversery there is at the moment about tackling the benefit culture. Back in the 70's something needed to be done as the unions, the miners, the dock workers and other nationilsed industrries that where subsidised by the state were not the whole country, other people and their interests mattered too.

I haven't belittled you or said your views are not valid - I just feel that feeling such bitterness about some woman who was in PM 30 years ago and still blaming her for todays woes is no different than if I was still bearing grudges about the English in Ireland 100's of years ago or the real poverly there was in the 20's and before


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

TBH, I've had a right t$tful of it.

No matter what happens she.is dead, she's not gonna give two hoots about whether she's liked or disliked.

For me, I was always brought up to think and speak no ill of the dead and to respect the solemn dignity of a funeral, whoever they may be.

As for protests, you can guarantee that theres going to be some idiots who take it too far. 

The news tonight showed a horse being, what looked like, punched in the side of its faces. People can argue and say yeah, that was football hooligans, but you can be damn sure everyone there on wednesday will not be there on a peaceful mission.

As from now til Thursday at least, thats me done and im keeping well away from it all and hope that as a nation we can at least let it pass with no violence.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

I wouldnt mind all the vitriole and the hatred if Mrs T had set out to do harm, she didn't. She emulated and admired Winston Churchill. They and their policies were alike as two peas in a pod they both did some good and some bad things, they made mistakes - for crissakes they were only human. I don't recall any protests at Winston Churchills funeral, which the tax-payer also paid for btw.

Fathers, grandfathers, brothers, sons, daughters, mothers, grandmothers all gave their lives in the two great wars, they fought for our freedom, for our democratic right to vote, to live in peace and harmony, free from tyranny and hatred. Were their sacrifices in vain? 

I was born in a air-raid shelter during an air raid in 1941, not far from the centre of London, my father fought in the great war, and served as a fireman in the second war. he was a painter and decorator. I never heard him say a word of dislike about any body, never mind hatred. Today I feel full of sadness and despair, I have lived 72 years and find that nothing has changed. People still hate each other, they hate in the name of religion and politics. *Sighs deelply*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

MCWillow said:


> So you managed to buy your house under the right to buy scheme. A scheme that MT brought in to help people get onto the property ladder, that otherwise wouldn't have had that chance.
> 
> *So i purchased my house under Thatcher, what does that prove? It doesn't mean i can't put myself in the shoes of all those people that suffered under her.
> I was very fortunate to have a damn good financial advisor. Many that did buy their homes also lost them, when she hiked up the interest rates.
> *


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

kodakkuki said:


> i'm no fan, and Personally, not exactly upset she's dead, but she wasn't My mother... show your disapproval of this woman by all means by peaceful protest (although *peaceful *protests aren't exactly what this country is good at!) but not at a funeral; that's just petty, spiteful and quite frankly heartless- what kind of human could honestly feel ok about making one of the worst days of a family's life worse by chanting and holding up placards condemning the deceased!?


They should have had a private funeral then.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> They should have had a private funeral then.


Yep can see that, world leaders and ambassadors celebrating her contribution to bringing down the iron curtain crammed into a small local church. Just the person she was means that a small quiet cremation was impossible. Did you support the funeral of Dianna I wonder?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

We're all aware of what Maggie did and no doubt far too many suffered the rigors of her policies.

She's dead for christ sake. What good is harbouring and nurturing the bitterness from years past?

This whole controversy is being turned into a circus particularly by the hypocrites. 
Those who stabbed her in the back and now expect the public's pocket to dispose of the body.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *So i purchased my house under Thatcher, what does that prove? It doesn't mean i can't put myself in the shoes of all those people that suffered under her.
> I was very fortunate to have a damn good financial advisor. Many that did buy their homes also lost them, when she hiked up the interest rates.
> *


Its not meant to _prove _anything. Its a statement of fact. You are saying how bloody terrible she was and yet you took advantage of a policy that was implemented to try and help people 'better themselves' (for want of a better phrase).

And I don't need to put myself in anyone elses shoes. I was wearing the shoes. We lost our house in 1987 when I was 15 years old.

The difference is I haven't held so much bitterness and hatred inside me for the last 27 years that I am happy people want to protest at her funeral, and dance on her grave.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Zaros said:


> We're all aware of what Maggie did and no doubt far too many suffered the rigors of her policies.
> 
> She's dead for christ sake. What good is harbouring and nurturing the bitterness from years past?
> 
> ...


*I for one am not harbouring any hate or bitterness. I believe that those that do, or have an opinion should be able to air their views though.*


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

MCWillow said:


> Its not meant to _prove _anything. Its a statement of fact. You are saying how bloody terrible she was and yet you took advantage of a policy that was implemented to try and help people 'better themselves' (for want of a better phrase).
> 
> And I don't need to put myself in anyone elses shoes. I was wearing the shoes. We lost our house in 1987 when I was 15 years old.
> 
> The difference is I haven't held so much bitterness and hatred inside me for the last 27 years that I am happy people want to protest at her funeral, and dance on her grave.


*JS did a lot of charity work, but i sure as hell still think he is better off dead.*


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Just listening to the radio and i think the police are taking the wrong approach to people that are going to protest.
> A police officer has just said that if people hold up placards they will be asked to take them down, or the police will remove them. Also anyone chanting ect. will be dealt with.
> This i fear will inflame the situation.
> Thoughts?*


After the overreaction to her death by her haters, I dont blame the law inforcement for wanting to nip it in the bud before it gets bad. Afterall people havent exactly shown their maturity in this situation have they.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

And lol @ wanting to protest "after" she dies... only ones listening now are ones that either dont give a fack or cant change HER past.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Waterlily said:


> And lol @ wanting to protest "after" she dies... only ones listening now are ones that either dont give a fack or cant change HER past.


It may be more to do with the fact we have no money for the NHS, Education etc - but we do have enough to host a £10m funeral.... I think it will be anti-austerity marches.

My mums just been on the phone trying to make me take the day off tomorrow! I cant sadly as I have some high level meetings, but as my "office" is a prominent Government Building in the middle of Whitehall on Parliament Street I am likely to be at the centre of any problems if they kick off! 
At least we have door barricades now after the students riots compromised the buildings security.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

grumpy goby said:


> It may be more to do with the fact we have no money for the NHS, Education etc - but we do have enough to host a £10m funeral.... I think it will be anti-austerity marches.
> 
> My mums just been on the phone trying to make me take the day off tomorrow! * I cant sadly as I have some high level meetings, but as my "office" is a prominent Government Building in the middle of Whitehall on Parliament Street I am likely to be at the centre of any problems if they kick off!
> At least we have door barricades now after the students riots compromised the buildings security.*


It might be a good idea to take in plenty of food supplies - you may find yourself locked in there for a good while should things get very nasty and really kick off.  I'd err on the side of caution and bung a change of undies in your bag and a toothbrush JUST in case it ends up being too late for trains home.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

grumpy goby said:


> My mums just been on the phone trying to make me take the day off tomorrow! I cant sadly as I have some high level meetings, but as my "office" is a prominent Government Building in the middle of Whitehall on Parliament Street I am likely to be at the centre of any problems if they kick off!
> At least we have door barricades now after the students riots compromised the buildings security.


Stay safe. If I was you I'd listen to your mum, this has the potential to get dangerous.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Just listening to the radio and i think the police are taking the wrong approach to people that are going to protest.
> A police officer has just said that if people hold up placards they will be asked to take them down, or the police will remove them. Also anyone chanting ect. will be dealt with.
> This i fear will inflame the situation.
> Thoughts?*


Not read the thread yet (I will) but just wanted to put my own feelings down.

My worry is not that suppressing the rights of those who do not agree with what is happening will inflame the situation. My worry goes deeper than that. I am deeply disturbed that in this day and age we can be subject to such suppression and censorship, suppression and censorship that is taking place in what is supposed to be a free country. We have already seen that in place when the BBC chose not to play "Ding Dong The Witch is Dead" but allowed a pro-Thatcher song to be played in its entirety. And now we have the police force suppressing a large number of the populace from showing their true feelings.

If the family had wanted a private funeral where only people who wanted to show her respect could attend, then that is what they should have had. The fact that they have opted for a public funeral means they should accept what ALL the public feel about this woman, not just the sycophants.

Instead, they have chosen a ceremonial funeral which will be viewed all over the world. Why is the state afraid to let the true depth of hatred about this woman and her policies be shown? Why do the powers that be want to pretend that everyone respected her? Why are they afraid of showing the truth? Why do they want to pretend something different to the rest of the world?

I watched the documentary on North Korea last night - and this smacks of the same kind of censorship that takes place there - ie trying to show the world a reality that bears no resemblance to what is really happening. We are supposed to live in a free country. Let people protest at a public event if they want to. Stop pretending that this woman was revered by all and sundry when she was deeply hated by a large precentage of the country.

It sickens and saddens me that the thoughts and feelings of a large percentage of the population are being ignored, suppressed and censored in this way. In a free country, there should be room for both the people who want to mourn and the people who want to celebrate. Neither sector should be suppressed. Instead of all this censorhsip, let's show it as it really is.

Because if we don't, then Jan is right. The unfair censorship probably will inflame the situation. But that will be the fault of those who suppress, not those who are being suppressed.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Stop pretending that this woman was revered by all and sundry when *she was deeply hated by a large precentage of the country.*




Was she though, if that were true why was she voted in by the country *three* times? Surely this large percentage would have voted her out ?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *I think you will find a lot of the protesters will be the likes of people that suffered under Thatchers rule.*


most of them wont have been born when she was in power....


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Personally I don't think it would make any difference what type of funeral was held, if it was purely a private one funded wholly by the family you would still get individuals who feel it appropriate to wave placards and yell abuse


See, I would say that was wrong at a private funeral - but at a state funeral ALL the people in that "state" have a right to their say, not just the ones the government want to portray as the whole of the state.



Happy Paws said:


> The chimes of Big Ben will be silenced for the duration of Baroness Thatcher's funeral, House of Commons Speaker John Bercow has announced.
> 
> He told MPs this would be "an appropriate means of indicating our sentiments" during the occasion.
> 
> ...


I would have repped you for this if it would let me!



JAChihuahua said:


> Look, you have the right to your opinion, about me and everthing else for that matter. However I completely disagree that Thatcher was a case of "shite happens".
> 
> My Hate for Thatcher, doesn't define me, doesn't rule my life and hasn't made me the person I am today. It is such a small part of my being, however as events have unfolded I have shared that small part here, and rather cathartic it has been too. My celebration and closure came at her death, as I have said before and its why I am not protesting against her regime at her funeral. I would protest against the fact that its publicly funded (really sticks in my throat that) if I thought the protest wouldn't be overrun with idiots looking to pick fights.
> 
> ...


Well said! I would have repped you many times over on this thread, but it won't let me until I spread it about a bit. I've neary worn my "like" button out on your posts though!



DoodlesRule said:


> [/COLOR][/B]
> Was she though, if that were true why was she voted in by the country *three* times? Surely this large percentage would have voted her out ?


But the majority of people did not vote her in at any of the elections - just as the majority never vote in any government. It's one of the most unfair things about our present so-called democracy. For example, In 1987 13,736, 395 people voted for her. 21,567,804 did not vote for her - ie a majority of around 7 million people did not want her in power. (And 25% of the voting population did not even bother to vote, so there may have been more.) Her other elections show a similar story.
1987 UK General election results, manifestos, PMs biography | UK Political Info

It's like our present set of numptys - no-one in the country voted for a con-dem alliance, but that's what we've got. Unless we ever move on towards a proportional representation system, this sort of government by the minority will always happen.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Something I did'nt know her ceremonial funeral was planned by the previous Labour government,learn something every day


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

suewhite said:


> Something I did'nt know her ceremonial funeral was planned by the previous Labour government,learn something every day


How very ironic


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

suewhite said:


> Something I did'nt know her ceremonial funeral was planned by the previous Labour government,learn something every day


Well Blair did model himself, his party and his policies on MT....


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> See, I would say that was wrong at a private funeral - but at a state funeral ALL the people in that "state" have a right to their say, not just the ones the government want to portray as the whole of the state. .


In this country and any democracy 'all' people have the right to have their say, at any time. But don't you think that it's indecent and insulting to want to demonstrate that right at a funeral, state or otherwise - bearing in mind that they can legitimately 'peacefully' protest at any other time. Nobody wants to stop them protesting (I certainly don't if they feel so strongly and aggrieved about something) and having their say, just not at this time when a family (which most of us have and know what it feels like to lose a loved member) are grieving.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> How very ironic


Why ironic?

TB was Thatchers greatest achievement! Ive seen that quoted many times and tbh its probably true!

Why does everyone assume that because you dislike (or in my case Hate) Thatcher you must automatically be a labour supporter?

Why cant someone who dislikes Thatcher still support the conservatives, or the liberals, Green, the bnp, ukip, the socialists or the monster raving loonies?

Personally I have always found the party which does the yoga flying to give the most entertaining party political broadcasts! Not least because I think its Alan Partridge who leads them!  .... 60% crime rate reduction in Merseryside all because of yogic flying! mwahhhhhahhhhaaaahhhhaaaahhhh






Oh and btw - dont ask who I vote for, not even my hubby is privileged with that information! rrr:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suewhite said:


> Something I did'nt know her ceremonial funeral was planned by the previous Labour government,learn something every day


*
Wasn't that when Labour changed to New Labour?*


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> Wasn't that when Labour changed to New Labour?*


What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

You mean when Labour became Old Tory surely?


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> Wasn't that when Labour changed to New Labour?*


Suppose it must have been Jan Labours Labour to me,see how much I know I thought the present government arranged it.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> In this country and any democracy 'all' people have the right to have their say, at any time.


I would like to think that - but this is clearly showing that only the ones who agree with what's happening have rights. Those who disagree with what's happening are having their rights taken away from them.



Supasilvfoxy said:


> But don't you think that it's indecent and insulting to want to demonstrate that right at a funeral, state or otherwise - bearing in mind that they can legitimately 'peacefully' protest at any other time. Nobody wants to stop them protesting (I certainly don't if they feel so strongly and aggrieved about something) and having their say, just not at this time when a family (which most of us have and know what it feels like to lose a loved member) are grieving.


If anyone had been protesting at my Dad's or my Mum's funeral I wouldn't have even noticed them, to be honest. I was grieving so much each time that WW3 could have started in the churchyard and I would not have known about it.

If her family want to grieve and mourn her, then nothing on this earth will stop that.

The people who want to protest at her funeral may have had family members directly affected in various adverse ways - from homelessness to death - by this woman's policy. That, in my eyes, gives them the right to demonstrate at her funeral.

And whatever the rights or wrongs of protesting at a funeral, no police force in this country should be given the power to suppress peaceful demonstrators just because the powers that be have decided that the picture they want the rest of the world to see is one of a nation paying its resepcts. The whole nation does not want to pay its respects. A small minority of the nation wants to pay its respects. And I see no harm in that fact (ie the truth) being portrayed instead of a lie.

If the protesters are there, let them protest (providing it is done peacefully). Show the world the truth about how the country feels about this woman. Otherwise we are no better than North Korea or any other nation that tries to suppress the true feelings of its populace.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> In this country and any democracy 'all' people have the right to have their say, at any time. But don't you think that it's indecent and insulting to want to demonstrate that right at a funeral, state or otherwise - bearing in mind that they can legitimately 'peacefully' protest at any other time. Nobody wants to stop them protesting (I certainly don't if they feel so strongly and aggrieved about something) and having their say, just not at this time when a family (which most of us have and know what it feels like to lose a loved member) are grieving.


*Let's not forget, that after the official funeral there will be a private family event for the cremation in Mortlake, South West London.
So the family will have " their time", without any protesters.
*


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Goblin said:


> Yep can see that, world leaders and ambassadors celebrating her contribution to bringing down the iron curtain crammed into a small local church. Just the person she was means that a small quiet cremation was impossible.* Did you support the funeral of Dianna I wonder?*


Yes I did, I liked her and she did a lot of good across the world, as far as I know she never killed anyone.

Why should she get a ceremonial funeral PMs don't normally get one, it's crazy.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

I tire of this and am filled with a deep despair. 

All of you who hate Mrs T so much. Go wave your banners at her funeral. Insult her family and all those that loved her. Teach your children the meaning of the word 'hate'. Be prideful of your anger. I hope it makes you feel better. 

May your gods forgive you.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Really it dosent affect me...people in scotland hate her.i dont agree with celabrating a withered old woman. passing but i dont even think she,d agree with 10mil plus funeral.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> I tire of this and am filled with a deep despair.
> 
> All of you who hate Mrs T so much. Go wave your banners at her funeral. Insult her family and all those that loved her. Teach your children the meaning of the word 'hate'. Be prideful of your anger. I hope it makes you feel better.
> 
> May your gods forgive you.


Are you mental?..?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> Really it dosent affect me...*people in scotland hate her*.i dont agree with celabrating a withered old woman. passing but i dont even think she,d agree with 10mil plus funeral.


*SOME* people in Scotland may hate her, as may *SOME* people everywhere but making it seem *ALL *people in Scotland hate her is incorrect, also I think you meant some people in Scotland *DID* hate her as she is now dead/gone/cast off this mortal coil/an ex-PM, hate will make you bitter, and I dont remember your very own jock-PM doing much for you after Blair did a runner...Have you had Brown back?...

BTW, anything bad in the last 20 years you can blame on Labour really


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

mollydog07 said:


> Are you mental?..?


This thread has got to 19 pages with many people disagreeing with each other.
We have agreed or disagreed in a respectful manner, without personal insults.

I have even repped someone on this thread whose opinion is the complete opposite of mine, because I admire the fact that they are standing by what they believe, and argue each point in a reasoned manner.

And then you come along and spoil it with that post


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

*I HATE BLAIR*

smug git


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *Let's not forget, that after the official funeral there will be a private family event for the cremation in Mortlake, South West London.
> So the family will have " their time", without any protesters.
> *


Well, that will be a consolation for them, I'm sure.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> Are you mental?..?


Why ask this question? She has a right to an opinion..as do you and I. Personally I agree with her.

Are you going to ask if I am "mental" too??

Is anyone that disagrees with you "mental" in your eyes?

Just wondering........


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> I would expect this action is being taken out of respect to her family who loved her and are grieving.
> 
> A funeral is a solemn and sad affair - regardless of who it is - and is no place for any kind of protest.


My thoughts exactly moggy,
I've no problem with folks turning their backs as I have heard suggested! just a shame that have nothing better to do with their time!
As for protesters, personally I would like t see water canons used on em:devil:


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> Are you mental?..?


Really? You stoop to insults?

Ive been one of Thatchers most vocal opponants on this thread, but I do respect others right to their opinions. I may vehemently disagree with SSS's sentiments but that doesnt mean its ok to insult her.



Colliebarmy said:


> *I HATE BLAIR*
> 
> smug git


I'm not overly fond of the smug git either, although its not hate for me, the only person I have ever hated is Thatcher... its such a strong emotion and shouldnt be bandied about without meaning (not suggesting you dont mean it btw, you know your own emotions best).


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> My thoughts exactly moggy,
> I've no problem with folks turning their backs as I have heard suggested! just a shame that have nothing better to do with their time!
> As for protesters, personally I would like t see water canons used on em:devil:


You really want to see acts of violence against peaceful protesters? Your right to your opinion, but genuinely curious if you actually mean this?

I'm not talking about rioters, or the knobs who join protests to start a fight... but the genuine people who are airing a grievance or opinion against those in power (past or present).

I hope to never live in a country full of such censorship, although from recent events it seems to be heading that way. They have set some very dangerous precedents recently.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> Are you mental?..?


How rude!

I was perfectly sane before I started reading the vitriole and hatred directed towards a woman who isn't alive to defend herself or her actions, but after reading these forums it may well have turned my mind, so maybe I am mental, but you madam have an ugly soul.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> I tire of this and am filled with a deep despair.
> 
> All of you who hate Mrs T so much. Go wave your banners at her funeral. Insult her family and all those that loved her. Teach your children the meaning of the word 'hate'. Be prideful of your anger. I hope it makes you feel better.
> 
> May your gods forgive you.


You would prefer that we teach our children the meaning of lies and hypocrisy?

My deep despair is twofold - firstly that the authorities are suppressing the views of a large section of the populace and secondly that some people are happy about this and and willing for it to happen - and willing to let their children see this happen. What kind of message is that giving?

Now the latter are the people who really will need their gods to forgive them - because if they give their rights away so easily they will need their gods.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Well not long now and we will see the end of the wicked witch. I for one WILL have my telly on in the morning, just to make sure the evil woman goes.
Look on the bright side, if i'm watching telly i can't be posting on here.*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Ok I feel the need to respond, as I suspect its aimed directly at me.



Supasilvfoxy said:


> I tire of this and am filled with a deep despair.


I'm sorry that anything I have written has made you feel such a way.



> All of you who hate Mrs T so much. Go wave your banners at her funeral. Insult her family and all those that loved her.


 I'm not attending the protest, however I support those who do so for genuine reasons. I have never EVER hidden my feelings regarding Thatcher when the subject has arisen, her family were well aware of the feelings of a certain proportion of the population. It is a very dangerous precedent to set if people cannot air their views and criticise such high profile public figures - even when they are dead.



> Teach your children the meaning of the word 'hate'. Be prideful of your anger. I hope it makes you feel better.


 Actually I have taught my children both sides of the stories in the very few circumstances the subject has arisen, and in an age appropriate way. Actually it was section 28 which has seriously upset my eldest after his tolerance & prejudice subject at school.

I firmly believe children should not be patronised and deserve to be given the truth, without prejudice, in order to form their own opinions on the subject. My feelings of thatcher are so personal and so close that I chose to allow the children to make up their own minds without being clouded by my feelings. Neither child hates her as far as I am aware. However if they ever ask me what I really think of her, I wont lie.



> May your gods forgive you.


Thankfully I have no gods, so no need for forgiveness.

Strangely on the subject of teaching children, I have a son who is expressing an interest in christianity (and now attends sunday school), and another who was blown over by the beauty of Sikhism after a school trip and is currently reading about the religion. Should either boy decide to join a faith, they will have my blessing & support but not my belief.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> You really want to see acts of violence against peaceful protesters? Your right to your opinion, but genuinely curious if you actually mean this?
> 
> I'm not talking about rioters, or the knobs who join protests to start a fight... but the genuine people who are airing a grievance or opinion against those in power (past or present).
> 
> I hope to never live in a country full of such censorship, although from recent events it seems to be heading that way. They have set some very dangerous precedents recently.


I SAID, I have not problem with folks turning their backs!
and that is my book is a peaceful protester, I don't know what your idea of one is feel free to share!
but think your next paragraph hit the note, the rioters, hooligans and thugs! it will be a good day for them won't it just! yay!!! They will join in and ALL will be labelled the same unless your 'peaceful' protester plans their strategy carefully!

And as for your view on censorship again, our views may differ, but we losing that fast, just like we have freedom of speech!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

as i have said before its disgusting that people could stoop so low,but what i find even more strange is they are protesting to who and what, by all means have ya say but surely that should be to the person in question, shes dead, whats the point other than a good excuse for a bit of agro, they are no better than the person they're hating.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> I SAID, I have not problem with folks turning their backs!
> and that is my book is a peaceful protester, I don't know what your idea of one is feel free to share!
> but think your next paragraph hit the note, the rioters, hooligans and thugs! it will be a good day for them won't it just! yay!!! They will join in and ALL will be labelled the same unless your 'peaceful' protester plans their strategy carefully!
> 
> And as for your view on censorship again, our views may differ, but we losing that fast, just like we have freedom of speech!


I think this sums up what I consider to be a peaceful protest! However in a nutshell... non violent and keeping within the law.

Your rights - The Right of Peaceful Protest


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

mollydog07 said:


> Are you mental?..?


why would you 'assume' she is mental?

Are you as rough as a badgers arse?

Coz you sure come across as such!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> as i have said before its disgusting that people could stoop so low,but what i find even more strange is they are protesting to who and what, by all means have ya say but surely that should be to the person in question, shes dead, whats the point other than a good excuse for a bit of agro, they are no better than the person they're hating.


Exactly! well said and half them protesting weren't even a twinkle in their daddies eye when Maggie were in office


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> as i have said before its disgusting that people could stoop so low,but what i find even more strange is they are protesting to who and what, by all means have ya say but surely that should be to the person in question, shes dead, whats the point other than a good excuse for a bit of agro, they are no better than the person they're hating.


I think for many its the fact that the funeral is using public funds in a time of recession, for a woman many dislike.



DT said:


> Exactly! well said and half them protesting weren't even a twinkle in their daddies eye when Maggie were in office


Now that I do agree with! My facebook has been flooded with lots of youths planning on attending protests, and yet not one contemporary confirmed anti-thatcherite I know is going. Ive said all along that I think the protests wont end up being peaceful and will be flooded with idiots looking to cause fights and destruction. I feel sorry for those genuine protesters who are attending and who will all be tarred with the same brush.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

The police shouldn't be doing anything against the protesters unless they have to. They want to be seen being attacked by the mean horrible police, it makes them look like the good guys instead of rent-a-mob. They have the right to protest unfortunately, no matter how sick it might be to be protesting at a funeral.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

DT said:


> why would you 'assume' she is mental?
> 
> Are you as rough as a badgers arse?
> 
> Coz you sure come across as such!


On behalf of the lovely badgers I would like to point out their arse is not rough but as gentle as a babies!! please do not upset em!!


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

DT said:


> Exactly! well said and half them protesting weren't even a twinkle in their daddies eye when Maggie were in office


M T dies and youve got 18yr olds with "my specialist subject is politics of the 70's" makes me sick, but not as sick as these lot that think its ok to disrespect a family at a time like this, what do they actually think they will achieve?


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Well not long now and we will see the end of the wicked witch. I for one WILL have my telly on in the morning, just to make sure the evil woman goes.
> Look on the bright side, if i'm watching telly i can't be posting on here.*


I think this "wicked witch" stupidity is so juvenile and pathetic. Fine....dont like the lady if thats the case but "wicked witch" *smh*

I will be watching too but in my case to see a remarkable lady go on to what I hope is a better place.......


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> I think for many its the fact that the funeral is using public funds in a time of recession, for a woman many dislike.
> 
> Now that I do agree with! My facebook has been flooded with lots of youths planning on attending protests, and yet not one contemporary confirmed anti-thatcherite I know is going. Ive said all along that I think the protests wont end up being peaceful and will be flooded with idiots looking to cause fights and destruction. I feel sorry for those genuine protesters who are attending and who will all be tarred with the same brush.


No its not, long before they knew any details about the funeral, minutes after the news was broke they were chants, saying how they would love to dance on her grave ect, there will be some that are protesting about the cost, but whats the point, what will protesting about something that actually happening, what will it change other than maybe change peoples minds of just what the country and the people in it have become, vile horrible yobs with no respect, no respect for the poor family that have actually nothing to do or had no control of what their mum and grandmother has supposedly done.

Ask for genuine protesters who are they then, oh ye they are still hateful, disrespectful people, just doing it a bit more quietly, makes me sick.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> No its not, long before they knew any details about the funeral, minutes after the news was broke they were chants, saying how they would love to dance on her grave ect, there will be some that are protesting about the cost, but whats the point, what will protesting about something that actually happening, what will it change other than maybe change peoples minds of just what the country and the people in it have become, vile horrible yobs with no respect, no respect for the poor family that have actually nothing to do or had no control of what their mum and grandmother has supposedly done.
> 
> Ask for genuine protesters who are they then, oh ye they are still hateful, disrespectful people, just doing it a bit more quietly, makes me sick.


Reduced to more personal insults? Seems the tone of this thread has gone downhill, which is a shame.

Just because my views are in opposition to yours! You are allowed to air your views just as much as I am mine, yet I am not calling you a sicko or dispicable for supporting a tyrant!

No protest was organised until the date of the funeral was announced, and as far as I am aware many more requests were made AFTER they announced it would be publicly funded.

Their mother was a public figure. She knew what she was letting her family in for, SHE requested a public funeral. Had she wanted to avoid this, she would not have requested a public funeral, Thatcher was no stranger to protests against her, throughout her tenure and after. The Hillsborough supporters have long held a banner each anniversary which stated "Expose the lies before Thatcher dies". She and afterwards her family could have insisted on a private funeral, as have other PM's in the past.

You cannot silence a while swathe of the population from displaying their relief/joy/pleasure at what many feel is the final end to the influence she had on their lives.

Thank goodness this country allows people the right to peaceful protest. Do I think tomorrow will be peaceful, no I dont and that fills me with great sadness. For those innocent people who will be affected by the violence and on behalf of those protesting as they feel they have a justifiable grievance to be heard.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> Reduced to more personal insults? Seems the tone of this thread has gone downhill, which is a shame.
> 
> Just because my views are in opposition to yours! You are allowed to air your views just as much as I am mine, yet I am not calling you a sicko or dispicable for supporting a tyrant!
> 
> ...


Personal insults?? i have not personally insulted you ime talking about the people that will be protesting tomorrow, if your one of them then i suppose you included but ime not personally insulting anyone directly on her and tbh i dont think i ever have in all my time on this forum, if i have then it was never intentionally. Please quote me where ive called you a "sicko"


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

chichi said:


> I think this "wicked witch" stupidity is so juvenile and pathetic. Fine....dont like the lady if thats the case but "wicked witch" *smh*
> 
> I will be watching too but in my case to see a remarkable lady go on to what I hope is a better place.......


Did you think that was something new?

Protesters outside downing street in 1990 sang the song as she stepped down! Its long been associated with Thatcher.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> Did you think that was something new?
> 
> Protesters outside downing street in 1990 sang the song as she stepped down! Its long been associated with Thatcher.


I thought it was something new, something that had been sung since shes died..................people was still ignorant in 1990 then something else that isnt new.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Ive stated I would attend a protest against the public funding of the funeral, IF I thought it wasnt going to be visited by the idiots who want to cause violence. I have also stated that privatly in my own home I had a glass or two in celebration, and out of respect for the family and friends affected by Thatcher.



haeveymolly said:


> M T dies and youve got 18yr olds with "my specialist subject is politics of the 70's" makes me sick, *but not as sick as these lot that think its ok to disrespect a family at a time like this*, what do they actually think they will achieve?





haeveymolly said:


> They need to turn the hoses on the lot of em!!!!!





> Ask for genuine protesters who are they then, oh ye they are still hateful, disrespectful people, just doing it a bit more quietly, makes me sick.


Just a couple, but without going through all you posts on this and the other threads (and with the forum so unreliable I just dont have the patience) - sorry.


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> Did you think that was something new?
> 
> Protesters outside downing street in 1990 sang the song as she stepped down! Its long been associated with Thatcher.


It doesnt matter to me how long people have been using the "wicked witch" title/song in relation to MT...the fact remains that imho it is juvenile..petty and pathetic to associate a dead elderly lady with such a song...I think its shameful!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

chichi said:


> I think this "wicked witch" stupidity is so juvenile and pathetic. Fine....dont like the lady if thats the case but "wicked witch" *smh*
> 
> I will be watching too but in my case to see a remarkable lady go on to what I hope is a better place.......


Hear, hear
But alas, pack mentality


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

chichi said:


> It doesnt matter to me how long people have been using the "wicked witch" title/song in relation to MT...the fact remains that imho it is juvenile..petty and pathetic to associate a dead elderly lady with such a song...I think its shameful!


Fair enough thats your view.

Perhaps you would prefer the 1987 elvis costello song? or the Chumbawumba song? or hefner? or elton john? All have written anti-thatcher songs.

There are pro Thatcher songs too....
I'm in love with Margaret Thatcher was deemed ok to play according to the BBC!
Perhaps the spitting image - I did it my way (cant decide if its pro or anti, but the my way song sort of suits anyway).

I think the fact that so much music has been attributed to her shows how divisive a woman she was!


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> Ive stated I would attend a protest against the public funding of the funeral, IF I thought it wasnt going to be visited by the idiots who want to cause violence. I have also stated that privatly in my own home I had a glass or two in celebration, and out of respect for the family and friends affected by Thatcher.
> 
> Just a couple, but without going through all you posts on this and the other threads (and with the forum so unreliable I just dont have the patience) - sorry.


Youve quoted me but where are the personal insults.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> Hear, hear
> But alas, pack mentality


pack mentality?

Those packs of 1 are always a sod arent they?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> On behalf of the lovely badgers I would like to point out their arse is not rough but as gentle as a babies!! please do not upset em!!


Well I.ll have to take your word for it mrs
Seeing as no one else has come along and said otherwise like


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

haeveymolly said:


> Youve quoted me but where are the personal insults.


Your comments were aimed at someone? and as I admit to being "guilty" of the offenses you consider "sick"... how else should I interperet them?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> pack mentality?
> 
> Those packs of 1 are always a sod arent they?


No danger of em breeding then


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> No danger of em breeding then


Too late for that!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Your comments were aimed at someone? and as I admit to being "guilty" of the offenses you consider "sick"... how else should I interperet them?


Well if the cap fits.....


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> Well if the cap fits.....


Proud to wear it!

I keep saying this, and am paraphrasing another poster. but it seems noone believes me.

I will stand for my beliefs, even if it means I stand alone.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> Your comments were aimed at someone? and as I admit to being "guilty" of the offenses you consider "sick"... how else should I interperet them?


Speaking in general, if we all took it that seriously every member on her could be guilty of personal insults.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Too late for that!





haeveymolly said:


> Speaking in general, if we all took it that seriously every member on her could be guilty of personal insults.


Think I hold the crown for that


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Good old maggie she continues to wind em up even from the grave


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

I think the only one winding people up is you DT


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> I think the only one winding people up is you DT


I haven,t even started yet


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> I think the only one winding people up is you DT


As if DT would wind anyone up 

Wash your mouth out with soap :hand:


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> Look on the bright side, if i'm watching telly i can't be posting on here.*


can you record it an put it replay all day then?


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> can you record it an put it replay all day then?


*I've changed my mind. I will be on here all day. I can multi task, thank god i'm a woman. But i WILL continue to add my thoughts of the day.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

makes you think doesnt it, reporter from london just said........"lets hope today goes peacefully"......that should, in my opinion never cross anyones mind but it just shows what some people of this country will stoop to.

The last thing her family should have on their minds on a day like today.......very sad.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> makes you think doesnt it, reporter from london just said........"lets hope today goes peacefully"......that should, in my opinion never cross anyones mind but it just shows what some people of this country will stoop to.
> 
> The last thing her family should have on their minds on a day like today.......very sad.


*On the other side of the coin though, some will say how could she have stooped to such low levels.*


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *On the other side of the coin though, some will say how could she have stooped to such low levels.*


and by all means protest against that, while she was alive not on the day of her funeral, she will know nothing about it so whats the point nothing to be gained other than upsetting, tarnishing a day for her family that have done nothing to any of these people......shameful.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> and by all means protest against that, while she was alive not on the day of her funeral, she will know nothing about it so whats the point nothing to be gained other than upsetting, tarnishing a day for her family that have done nothing to any of these people......shameful.


*The very fact that people will be protesting, which they have every right to do, says not everyone agrees.*


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Well if they use a water cannon, at least the "great unwashed" will get a good cleaning for a change.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Well, I have just wrestled my way past about 100 coppers to get to work. There are ALOT of officers out there, vans tucked down ever nook, cranny and sideroad about - plus alot of police on motorbikes riding aruond. Sitting in my office, listening to the choppers fly overhead. 
Its gunna be a hectic morning I think!


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

grumpy goby said:


> Well, I have just wrestled my way past about 100 coppers to get to work. There are ALOT of officers out there, vans tucked down ever nook, cranny and sideroad about - plus alot of police on motorbikes riding aruond. Sitting in my office, listening to the choppers fly overhead.
> Its gunna be a hectic morning I think!


There are 4000 police officers there today.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

harley bear said:


> There are 4000 police officers there today.


I am guessing the bulk will be on the other side of the Strand - I work opposite Parliament, where it is starting - I do find the numbers of police slightly comforting for my own safety


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

grumpy goby said:


> Well, I have just wrestled my way past about 100 coppers to get to work. There are ALOT of officers out there, vans tucked down ever nook, cranny and sideroad about - plus alot of police on motorbikes riding aruond. Sitting in my office, listening to the choppers fly overhead.
> Its gunna be a hectic morning I think!


Best you stay put, hope you have taken lunch in with you no point going out into the fray and getting caught up in the mayham.

Whatever anyones views its so pointless having a "protest" at a funeral, what are they protesting about the fact she is dead  If anyone felt the need to protest then it was only relevant at the time she was actually PM.


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

grumpy goby said:


> I am guessing the bulk will be on the other side of the Strand - I work opposite Parliament, where it is starting - I do find the numbers of police slightly comforting for my own safety


It wouldnt surprise me if they upped the numbers in the last day or so after what happened in Boston.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*According to the radio there are usually 2000 police every day on the same streets.
Just a thought, perhaps the protesters will wait until after the hearse has passed before they protest.*


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

harley bear said:


> It wouldnt surprise me if they upped the numbers in the last day or so after what happened in Boston.


Yes! Violence seems to be the normal form of protest these days. Just shows how destructive hate can be.


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Well I'm off out this morning, haven't put the radio or TV on and I'm not have a News on at all today.


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> Yes! Violence seems to be the normal form of protest these days. Just shows how destructive hate can be.


And how childish it can be, I mean threatening to "egg" her coffin.. thats what bloody ten year olds do for attention.


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *According to the radio there are usually 2000 police every day on the same streets.
> Just a thought, perhaps the protesters will wait until after the hearse has passed before they protest.*


I don't think you believe that any more than I do. Too many little scrotes jumping on a bandwagon they know nothing about.

Like this one born in 1988

_The plan has been arranged through a Facebook group, 'Maggie's Good Riddance Party', which attracted more than 4,000 members. Dominic Francis, 25, the ringleader of the group has told members to carry noise-making equipment in their pockets such as whistles, bicycle bells and horns to whip out and blast as the cortege passes. He also told them to dress as mourners._


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

A gigantic waste of money as usual...but hey it's not their money is it? As Dennis Skinner said in parliament yesterday...what for?....why?

The little London version of the Vatican otherwise known as the establishment love 'a bit of a do' and a day off.So they can be seen on camera, and their wives can show off their new hats.They're on another planet.

Love her or hate her...this lot is way over the top.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> And how childish it can be, I mean threatening to "egg" her coffin.. thats what bloody ten year olds do for attention.


5 year olds actually


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

DT said:


> 5 year olds actually


hello noodle  been behaving have we :ihih:


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> hello noodle  been behaving have we :ihih:


As always, model member me


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*All going peacefully at the moment.*


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Whatever anyones views its so pointless having a "protest" at a funeral, what are they protesting about the fact she is dead  If anyone felt the need to protest then it was only relevant at the time she was actually PM.


What if they are protesting about the funeral itself? Many are disgusted at the vast amount spent on a funeral for a mere prime minister who did a dreadful job, at a time when the ordinary people of this country are being subject to punitive, stringent austerity measures even the IMF say have gone too far.

IMF issues dire warning to Britain demanding austerity programme be changed | UK | News | Daily Express

Irnoically enough though. this *is* a fitting tribute to Thatcher's terms of government - ignoring the fact that the poor are getting poorer whilst spending money on the rich. Add that to not allowing a large section of the country to voice how they really feel, and you epitomise her terms of offce quite accurately.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I do think the amount being spent is high ..BUT most of that is being spent on security and policing because of the threat of protesters ...so that kind of defeats their object IMO


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

No drama in westminster. Eerily quiet for so many people - as she past there was a few people clapping....


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> I do think the amount being spent is high ..BUT most of that is being spent on security and policing because of the threat of protesters ...so that kind of defeats their object IMO


*That's what they want us to believe. The fact there will be " top " names at the funeral, there would have to be extra security anyway.
Not everything can be blamed on protesters.*


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

The more i watch this the more disgusted I feel. In the week that saw the rollout of the biggest cuts to welfare there has probably ever been £10 million is spent on _this_. A big "F*** you" to the poor of this country.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

> A small group of protesters gathered at Ludgate Circus, near to St Paul's, to demonstrate against the "glorifying" of Lady Thatcher's funeral and cuts to the welfare state.
> 
> One demonstrator, Dave Winslow, 22, an anthropology student from Durham, held an acrylic placard reading "Rest of us in Poverty" and wearing a T-shirt with the messages "power to the people" and "society does exist".
> 
> ...


Crowds gather in London ahead of Thatcher funeral - Home News - UK - The Independent

I'm at work so cant see it, has there been any violence? I sincerely hope not.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Tinder said:


> The more i watch this the more disgusted I feel. In the week that saw the rollout of the biggest cuts to welfare there has probably ever been £10 million is spent on _this_. A big "F*** you" to the poor of this country.


*
And this from a woman that supposedly loved her country.*
" By Andy Lines 101 Comments
Margaret Thatcher the tax snatcher? Mystery of her £6m house with links to THREE tax havens
13 Apr 2013 00:00
Financial experts said it could have been a scheme which would help her estate avoid millions of pounds in inheritance tax

Mystery: Margaret Thatcher, her £6m house and the tax havens
Margaret Thatchers £6m London townhouse is owned by a mysterious company with links to THREE notorious tax havens.

Financial experts said it could have been a scheme which would help her estate avoid millions of pounds in inheritance tax.

But because her affairs are shrouded in such extraordinary secrecy it may be impossible to find out.

The trail leads to offshore businesses in the British Virgin Islands with links to Liechtenstein and Jersey.

The £6million property she lived in for more than 20 years is owned by Bakeland Property Company, based in the BVI.

The companys official address is a PO Box in a small town in Liechtenstein and it had its original roots in St Helier, Jersey.

Any suggestion of avoiding a £2.4m inheritance tax bill will spark outrage following the row over who is paying for Thatchers lavish £10m funeral.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *That's what they want us to believe. The fact there will be " top " names at the funeral, there would have to be extra security anyway.
> Not everything can be blamed on protesters.*


only 200 showing on the independant site.... I cant see it, so what has happened anyone care to fill me in?

All planned protests have a police presence, to protect members of the public and the protesters themselves!

I would like to see the accounts to prove that the 10 million is down to the protests! As Janice said, there are the worlds leaders and other very high profile people attending today - there has to be very high security!


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> Crowds gather in London ahead of Thatcher funeral - Home News - UK - The Independent
> 
> I'm at work so cant see it, has there been any violence? I sincerely hope not.


*No violence or any sign of protesters yet.*


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> Crowds gather in London ahead of Thatcher funeral - Home News - UK - The Independent
> 
> I'm at work so cant see it, has there been any violence? I sincerely hope not.


oh and before anyone has a fit, I'm on my break and using my tablet! No squandering NHS resources time or facilities here!


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *That's what they want us to believe. The fact there will be " top " names at the funeral, there would have to be extra security anyway.
> Not everything can be blamed on protesters.*


Yes I can see that too Jan ....im not blaming the protesters entirely - but those who go to protest purely because of the cost should realise they are part of the reason why the costs will be higher than normal - and are compounding the issue which to me is bloody pointless.

I dont actually agree with tax payers paying for the funeral but I understand why it has been deemed fit to do so.

That said I dont agree with the tax payers money paying for re-decoration/reconstruction on some of the royal families homes being renovated either ....that sticks more in my throat tbo ....


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> And this from a woman that supposedly loved her country.*
> " By Andy Lines 101 Comments
> Margaret Thatcher the tax snatcher? Mystery of her £6m house with links to THREE tax havens
> ...


now now now janice, you dont think any of the gvt toffs actually pay the right amount of tax do you?

so innocent!


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *No violence or any sign of protesters yet.*


I'm glad there has been no violence, but I do wonder at no protest. I wonder if this is really the case, or just the fact that the media has been instructed not to broadcast any?

I guess we will only get the true picture once people start putting things on facebook and youtube.


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *
> And this from a woman that supposedly loved her country.*
> " By Andy Lines 101 Comments
> Margaret Thatcher the tax snatcher? Mystery of her £6m house with links to THREE tax havens
> ...


Oh I do hope this is investiogated further don't you? Grrr.



JAChihuahua said:


> only 200 showing on the independant site.... I cant see it, so what has happened anyone care to fill me in?
> 
> All planned protests have a police presence, to protect members of the public and the protesters themselves!
> 
> I would like to see the accounts to prove that the 10 million is down to the protests! As Janice said, there are the worlds leaders and other very high profile people attending today - there has to be very high security!


No violence or sign of protesters yet. 
The hearse travelled to St Danes (?) church where they are now for a service. Her coffin will be placed on a gun carriage from here and move on to St Paul's. 
Only supporters lining the route so far - or that's what the beeb have shown anyway.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> I'm glad there has been no violence, but I do wonder at no protest. I wonder if this is really the case, or just the fact that the media has been instructed not to broadcast any?
> 
> I guess we will only get the true picture once people start putting things on facebook and youtube.


*I was wondering if they will protest after the funeral. I don't want to see violence either. I believe if the protesters want to be taken seriously, they need to keep it peaceful. 
Coffin now on the gun carriage, for those that can't see what's going on.*


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> oh and before anyone has a fit, I'm on my break and using my tablet! No squandering NHS resources time or facilities here!


Me neither - I'm supposed to be doing a 13 hr shift today but I've been off all week - the arthritis is playing me up dreadfully. I'm not watching the TV coverage of the funeral though - firstly, it's my way of turning my back on the procession and secondly, it's my way of protesting against the BBC for their political bias and suppression.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

ok twitter is much more reliable 

Protest shouts of dont you dare - I have no idea what about!

solitary Banner of "rest in shame"

and many many more protesters turning their back on the procession - sort of like a reverse of "the voice"

I like this though from the guardian
Margaret Thatcher's funeral: 23 things you could pay for with £10m | News | guardian.co.uk

edited to add this: http://audioboo.fm/boos/1335621-thatcher-funeral-chants-of-waste-of-money

not what we are seeing on the tv I assume?


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> I have read every post in this thread and I still can't work out what people will be 'protesting' about at Mrs T's funeral. Is it the fact of what she did/did not do when she was in power? Is it the fact that she was a horrible selfish person? Is it the fact that they just hate her because of what they think she did or have been told she did? Is it the fact that the tax-payer will be paying for her funeral? If the latter when a statesman/woman dies the tax-payer would be paying for their funeral anyway.
> 
> Whatever they are going to protest about is not going to alter history one bit. Don't we protest when we think we can alter things for the good? What 'good' is protesting at Mrs T's funeral going to do? Will it make some people feel better?
> 
> I went on a 'Ban the Bomb' march in London an awful long time ago. It was a peaceful march, we had peaceful marches in those days, nobody got hurt, or was insulted or caused riots and burnt banners or anything. We didn't need extra policing either in fact the policmen were quite friendly and good humoured. At the end of it we all felt better - though we didnt really achieve anything. But we were protesting about something not nothing. protesting at Mrs T's funeral is not going to alter anything for the better one jot, it's only going to upset her family. Do people want to do that, will it make them feel better? I think not. Perhaps if they 'protested' about all the starving children in the world - now that would be worth spending ones time and energy on.


Spot on. What _are_ these people protesting about? Are they protesting because she's dead? I am so glad you made your point...their protest is a waste of time (and money in extra security for those who are upset at the cost of the funeral). Most of them too young to know who she was...bet many of them don't know who is PM of the country today, let alone when MT was PM. They are just after a fun day out, maybe break a window and grab a pair of Nikes. (I'm size 4 by the way) Rant over.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Tinder said:


> Oh I do hope this is investiogated further don't you? Grrr.
> 
> No violence or sign of protesters yet.
> The hearse travelled to St Danes (?) church where they are now for a service. Her coffin will be placed on a gun carriage from here and move on to St Paul's.
> Only supporters lining the route so far - or that's what the beeb have shown anyway.


seems the protesters are there, well according to the journalists on the streets via twitter, but the beeb is not showing this.

However, all peaceful so far - very pleased about that! I admit I had little faith that the protests would be peaceful and I am happy to say it seems (so far, and wont count my chickens) that I was very wrong!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> Me neither - I'm supposed to be doing a 13 hr shift today but I've been off all week - the arthritis is playing me up dreadfully. I'm not watching the TV coverage of the funeral though - firstly, it's my way of turning my back on the procession and secondly, it's my way of protesting against the BBC for their political bias and suppression.


from what I have read on twitter, the beeb is certainly only showing a certain side of the procession. Disgusting bias and censorship!

Hope your feeling better soon, arthritis is an awful condition to live with x


----------



## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> I'm glad there has been no violence, but I do wonder at no protest. I wonder if this is really the case, or just the fact that the media has been instructed not to broadcast any?
> 
> I guess we will only get the true picture once people start putting things on facebook and youtube.


Well i can say 110% there was no protests through Pariament street


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> ok twitter is much more reliable
> 
> Protest shouts of dont you dare - I have no idea what about!
> 
> ...


No, not at all! To be honest with the noise from the band you wouldn't hear it anyway. Hmmm.


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

the protestors would not get any where near to the procession. They are more than likely back home!!

Would not disregard riots later!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> ok twitter is much more reliable
> 
> Protest shouts of dont you dare - I have no idea what about!
> 
> ...


*So far i have only heard a few boos. They have shown quite a lot of close up shots of the carriage, not many wide pictures of the crowd.
I feel sorry for the poor soldiers that have got to stand looking at their feet for 20 mins.*


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

JAChihuahua said:


> from what I have read on twitter, the beeb is certainly only showing a certain side of the procession.* Disgusting bias and censorship!*
> 
> Hope your feeling better soon, arthritis is an awful condition to live with x


Or maybe to show protesters would be in bad taste..... I certainly do not want to see anyone's funeral tainted by protesters.

Not sure how people can say the BBC is being biased, not when their camera's are following the coffin live.


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Me neither - I'm supposed to be doing a 13 hr shift today but I've been off all week - the arthritis is playing me up dreadfully. I'm not watching the TV coverage of the funeral though - firstly, it's my way of turning my back on the procession and secondly, it's my way of protesting against the BBC for their political bias and suppression.


Hope you're feeling better soon SW. Arthritis pain has gotta be one of the worst. I have RA & had hip replacement 3 weeks ago so off sick myself at present, hence dossing on here  x


----------



## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

I couldn't give two hoots about thatcher, but I am watching the parade on bbc website because I love how well timed these parades are and how amazing they look, everyone involved does a fantastic job! (especially those in control of the horses!)


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> from what I have read on twitter, the beeb is certainly only showing a certain side of the procession. Disgusting bias and censorship!
> 
> Hope your feeling better soon, arthritis is an awful condition to live with x


Thank you for your kind wishes - I have good days, bad days and dreadful days - and this is one of my dreadful days. I'm feeling quite sleepy because of the painkillers, so might not be able to articulate as clearly as normal - but just wanted to register my disgust at the bias and censorship of the media (but not surprise!)

What is going to go down in the anals of history is going to reflect nothing of the truth. In 20 or so years time there will be people on forums like this quoting peaceful clips of the funeral to prove that Thatcher was well-loved by everone - much the same as we have people on this thread quoting misinformation from the past to "prove" how wonderful she was.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

one of the patients has cnn on his laptop... they are showing the boo's during the procession AND interviewing the protestors. They are there, but the beeb is not showing it!

CNN Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com
Just a clip of the interview, but according to the other staff members the boos can be heard, but the beeb seem to have skewed the audio with the band.


----------



## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

SammyJo said:


> I couldn't give two hoots about thatcher, but I am watching the parade on bbc website because I love how well timed these parades are and how amazing they look, everyone involved does a fantastic job! (especially those in control of the horses!)


Same here really couldn`t give a dam, but do like a bit of a parade, the horses are so beautiful.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Or maybe the Beeb are fully aware that this funeral is being beamed all over the world are trying to show the country in a good light!!!!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

MissShelley said:


> Or maybe to show protesters would be in bad taste..... I certainly do not want to see anyone's funeral tainted by protesters.
> 
> Not sure how people can say the BBC is being biased, not when their camera's are following the coffin live.


*I pay the BBC, and if they are going to cover a story i want to see/hear the truth, not what dictate i should see/hear.
And the fact is, the BBC are bias. RT is far more honest and open.*


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

BBC said that people had thrown things at the horses which unnerved them.... How stupid can people be? 

Disgusting behaviour, everyone especially the horses have the right to do their jobs without hindrance.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MissShelley said:


> Or maybe to show protesters would be in bad taste..... I certainly do not want to see anyone's funeral tainted by protesters.
> 
> Not sure how people can say the BBC is being biased, not when their camera's are following the coffin live.


hmm as is the cnn and yet the audio is very different!

Its your opinion that to show the protests would be in bad taste, personally I would prefer they just showed the whole truth of the day.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MissShelley said:


> BBC said that people had thrown things at the horses which unnerved them.... How stupid can people be?
> 
> Disgusting behaviour, everyone especially the horses have the right to do their jobs without hindrance.


agreed, that is discusting!  The soldiers, other military and police are not there out of choice but are there to do their jobs. Poor horses


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *I pay the BBC, and if they are going to cover a story i want to see/hear the truth, not what dictate i should see/hear.
> And the fact is, the BBC are bias. RT is far more honest and open.*


How though? The cameras are following the procession live, what you see is what you are getting. The commentators are doing a fab job imho


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

MissShelley said:


> Or maybe to show protesters would be in bad taste..... I certainly do not want to see anyone's funeral tainted by protesters.


I'd prefer being shown the truth.



MissShelley said:


> Not sure how people can say the BBC is being biased, not when their camera's are following the coffin live.


Any "live" broadcast is always several seconds behind real time - plenty of time for them to switch camera angles/dub out sound.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

ok and back to work! Will be back later if I get a chance for a coffee before my shift finishes or if not after 1.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

MoggyBaby said:


> Or maybe the Beeb are fully aware that this funeral is being beamed all over the world are trying to show the country in a good light!!!!!


Hmmm. Exactly like North Korea then.

I'd prefer the rest of the world to see the truth of what is happening in this country today.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Just one last thing, really am going now.

According to twitter, riot police "stormed through" and stood infront of the protestors at ludgate (those chanting waste of money - nothing more, no violence from this group), and the bbc cut to another scene when the cortage passed. However thankfully its on various other news clips! 

Disgusted that they felt the need to do this, why not have been positioned in the first place?

anyway work beckons!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Tinder said:


> Hope you're feeling better soon SW. Arthritis pain has gotta be one of the worst. I have RA & had hip replacement 3 weeks ago so off sick myself at present, hence dossing on here  x


Oooh - hope you are feeling better soon. I have to have a hip replacement and two knee replacements - but I have to lose quite a bit of weight first. On days like today, it's easy to diet .... but when I'm on a good day it's much harder! x


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

> A small group of protesters gathered at Ludgate Circus, near to St Paul's, to demonstrate against the "glorifying" of Lady Thatcher's funeral and cuts to the welfare state.
> 
> *One demonstrator, Dave Winslow, 22,* an anthropology student from Durham, held an acrylic placard reading "Rest of us in Poverty" and wearing a T-shirt with the messages "power to the people" and "society does exist".
> 
> ...


so he has no actual memories of MT, just what he has been told?


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Im not watching the funeral because funerals make me reflect on the people_ ive_ loved and lost.

I am disgusted at all the millions of tax payers money theyre spending on it, its obscene especially when you think what this lot are doing to the NHS for example.

Clement Attlee a Prime Minister known for his decency, created the NHS & the welfare state, voted the Greatest Prime Minister of the 20th century. Attlee didnt have a State funeral, he was buried in quite dignity..what a contrast not only in the funerals of these two Prime Ministers but in their characters too

.

.


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

JAChihuahua said:


> hmm as is the cnn and yet the audio is very different!
> 
> Its your opinion that to show the protests would be in bad taste, personally I would prefer they just showed the whole truth of the day.


There's nothing to be gained from it, just cannot understand anyone wanting to watch the bad stuff happening.

The lady is dead. Surely that is enough for the haters.


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> so he has no actual memories of MT, just what he has been told?


He is protesting that people are in poverty whilst a vast amount of money is being spent on the funeral. Why does that mean he has to have memories of Thatcher? Why do you think that that means he has been told to protest?


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Oooh - hope you are feeling better soon. I have to have a hip replacement and two knee replacements - but I have to lose quite a bit of weight first. On days like today, it's easy to diet .... but when I'm on a good day it's much harder! x


Always gets me when they say that to people - i know there are medical reasons for the weight loss but I'm sure you'll agree exercise and weight loss would be much much easier if you could actually move your body without excruciating pain! Hope getting some rest this week at least helps a little & you feel better soon  x 
Now back on topic lol...


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

For those complaining about the bbc coverage, go on the website. The protestors are positioned away from where they will cause distress and offence to the family so obviously the live coverage of the coffin is going to be of that, the coffin. They report fights breaking out between people who are there to show respects and protesters. They also report on people booing which others try to drown out by clapping.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> He is protesting that people are in poverty whilst a vast amount of money is being spent on the funeral. Why does that mean he has to have memories of Thatcher? Why do you think that that means he has been told to protest?


Perhaps he should be at work then


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Spellweaver said:


> I'd prefer being shown the truth.
> 
> Any "live" broadcast is always several seconds behind real time - plenty of time for them to switch camera angles/dub out sound.


The truth about what? She's dead, yes we know people hated her and we know the reasons why? I agree with the BBC, if censoring is what they are doing.

The internet coverage from twitter etc is much more bias I'm sure, because we all know everything on the internet is true.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> I'd prefer being shown the truth.
> 
> Any "live" broadcast is always several seconds behind real time - plenty of time for them to switch camera angles/dub out sound.


Its a funeral not a moon landing or 9/11....


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> Clement Attlee a Prime Minister known for his decency, created the NHS & the welfare state, voted the Greatest Prime Minister of the 20th century. Attlee didnt have a State funeral, he was buried in quite dignity..what a contrast not only in the funerals of these two Prime Ministers but in their characters too.


Exactly. She sooo does not deserve all this money being spent on her. But hey, the establishment loved her didn't they? Never mind that she obliterated entire towns and communities and destroyed lives. The bankers who helped destroy our economy were also rewarded for their greed and immorality with 7 figure payouts too. Ba$tards.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> Im not watching the funeral because funerals make me reflect on the people_ ive_ loved and lost.
> 
> I am disgusted at all the millions of tax payers money theyre spending on it, its obscene especially when you think what this lot are doing to the NHS for example.
> 
> ...


William Beveridge propopsed the idea in his report in 1942. Clement Attlee was the Prime Minister in the UK after the war, but it was Aneurin Bevan, the minister for health, who was responsible for the National Health Service Act of 1946.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> Just one last thing, really am going now.
> 
> According to twitter, riot police "stormed through" and stood infront of the protestors at ludgate (those chanting waste of money - nothing more, no violence from this group), and the bbc cut to another scene when the cortage passed. However thankfully its on various other news clips!
> 
> ...


I don't know what the BBC hopes to achieve by its bias - other channels are obviously showing the truth around the world - _even Al Jazeera is showing the truth of what is happening at the funeral_. I never thought we'd see the day when Al Jazeera showed amore accurate truth of what was happening in our own country than the BBC - or that people in this country would be happy that they were being shown a false picture. (I don't know what dismays me most - the false picture or the passive acceptance of it)

The BBC should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for their bias, and so should anyone who thinks they are right to hide the truth.

Listen people - if you want to be like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed bullshit, then you have only yourselves to blame when you find yourself up to the neck in it.


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> Its a funeral not a moon landing or 9/11....


And your point is.....?


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Perhaps he should be at work then


Far easier to blame someone else rather than actually doing something about it. Attitude of today, blame someone else. Someone in the past is easy to blame.

There are plenty of people who do make the effort and fail through no fault of their own. Nobody should deny that. However a lot don't and expect things to be easy.


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> And your point is.....?


If it has gone over your head then I wouldn't worry about it!


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Perhaps he should be at work then


Perhaps you should be? 

I didn't really mean that - just showing you what a silly comment that was. He could be on holiday; he could be a student, he could even be working and covering this for a local newspaper - no-one knows.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

nutty said:


> If it has gone over your head then I wouldn't worry about it!


Ah, resorting to personal insults eh? Sure sign that you can't find any logical response or cogent argument. Such a shame when people start to behave like this on a thread that has been so free of it up to now.


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Calvine said:


> Spot on. What _are_ these people protesting about? Are they protesting because she's dead? I am so glad you made your point...their protest is a waste of time (and money in extra security for those who are upset at the cost of the funeral). Most of them too young to know who she was...bet many of them don't know who is PM of the country today, let aone when MT was PM. They are just after a fun day out, maybe break a window and grab a pair of Nikes. (I'm size 4 by the way) Rant over.


Margaret Thatcher funeral: 'Absolutely' right to protest - YouTube

ETA: meant to multi quote on the above. Posted as response to all those on here who have asked "why are people protesting?" and "is her funeral the right place to do it?" and not just Calvine. 
This lady sums it up better than I could.


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

Spellweaver said:


> Perhaps you should be?
> 
> I didn't really mean that - just showing you what a silly comment that was. He could be on holiday; he could be a student, he could even be working and covering this for a local newspaper - no-one knows.


Well, perhaps some of us work shifts? Like me...I am off to work now


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Tinder said:


> Margaret Thatcher funeral: 'Absolutely' right to protest - YouTube
> 
> ETA: meant to multi quote on the above. Posted as response to all those on here who have asked "why are people protesting?" and "is her funeral the right place to do it?" and not just Calvine.
> This lady sums it up better than I could.


*I absolutely agree with all that, that woman had to say. Well done her.:thumbsup:*


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Hmmm. Exactly like North Korea then.
> 
> I'd prefer the rest of the world to see the truth of what is happening in this country today.


Well, the truth appears to be that whilst people are protesting and boo'ing, there are more than enough people in attendance to honour the woman and they are managing to drown out those who are not.

Well done them I say!!!! :thumbup:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

MoggyBaby said:


> Well, the truth appears to be that whilst people are protesting and boo'ing, there are more than enough people in attendance to honour the woman and they are managing to drown out those who are not.
> 
> Well done them I say!!!! :thumbup:


*haha not that many clapping i might add. As said before, the BBC are bias.*


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Perhaps that would be less anger about the costs if we knew why Mrs Thatcher has had a ceremonial funeral. Way back on this thread (or one of the others) someone did say it was because she was the serving PM when we were at war over the Falklands.

I have read that for a state funeral it has to be agreed by parliament, whereas a ceremonial has to be agreed by the Queen - the last one was for Winston Churchill and the Queen hasn't attended any PMs funerals since (but then how many are dead).

I will ask my personal history buff when I next see him (aka my Dad, he knows everything


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

well clinics finished, although I am officially still on duty.... 17 non attendees (not including the 2 who did bother to ring and cancel)  More than average, and I suspect the funeral has something to do with it! Rather watch TV than attend your hospital appointment!

Ive sorted a thorough clean for the clinic rooms as they wont be used again until after 2pm, sorted the stock cupboard, filled out my paperwork, sent the non attendance letters, tidied the sluice and rearranged the waiting room. I wish we were allowed to go onto another ward or unit to help out but we cannot, (unless under very special circumstances), although it seems many of the outpatients clinics today are eerily empty . 

People, if you cant/wont attend your appointment, at least let us know, there are others waiting to be treated who would have loved to attend today!


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> Hmmm. Exactly like North Korea then.
> 
> I'd prefer the rest of the world to see the truth of what is happening in this country today.


I don`t think it can be `Exactly like North Korea` though. As you and others have found there are lots of ways of seeing/ hearing alternative coverage of the funeral, no body has to just stick to the BBC accounts of it. I would lay money on the people of NK not having the same amount of choice in Media as we do in the UK.


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## Staceyxxx (Mar 24, 2011)

Oh i live in a pit community and in the next village they are partying celebrating, they have made a guy fawkes with her face on, bought a coffin and by party there is about 300 people all doing a pub crawl, shop keepers are shutting up and joining in etc etc, the police are swarming the village, thank god because half of these people are under 20!!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Perhaps you should be?
> 
> I didn't really mean that - just showing you what a silly comment that was. He could be on holiday; he could be a student, he could even be working and covering this for a local newspaper - no-one knows.


LOl Touché  I am actually am multi tasking 

Oh and appears he is a student at Oxford and seems a bit of a door handle if you can believe what is in the press


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> And your point is.....?


the difference in conspiracy theories, and the suggestion the BBC would intervene in coverage


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> William Beveridge propopsed the idea in his report in 1942. Clement Attlee was the Prime Minister in the UK after the war, but it was Aneurin Bevan, the minister for health, who was responsible for the National Health Service Act of 1946.


Bevan was his minister so they both take credit for the NHS

This is so interesting, i never knew Attlee's political party was initially the Tory Party. A man of strong moral values, he switched political allegiance to the Labour Party when he saw for himself the dire conditions of the poor.

Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain from 1945-1951, suffered from widespread underestimation, as he was constantly pitted against the flamboyant character Churchill, making him appear modest in comparison. Members of his own Labour Party even conspired to have him overthrown, including Herbert Morrison, who warned Attlee that he was prepared to stand against him in a leadership contest, as a more suitable candidate for the post. Regardless of the underwhelming response Attlee received during his lifetime, the continuing legacy that he left behind renders him the only Prime Minister, apart from Margaret Thatcher, who permanently transformed British society during their administration.

Clement Attlee.

Attlees staunchly socialist policies left a permanent legacy; so much so that although Conservatives overwhelmingly dominated leadership positions in British politics; British society remained shaped by the policies introduced in the Attlee years. Atlee himself was a staunch conservative until he worked as a manager for Haileybury House, a charitable club for working class boys in Londons East End. Horrified at the poverty and deprivation he witnessed whilst working with slum children there, he permanently altered his political stand; private charity would never alleviate poverty alone: the state had to intervene through massive income redistribution. Attlee remained highly critical of the ills of capitalist society throughout his lifetime, once commenting that mans material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress.

Attlee orchestrated a highly successful domestic policy with socialist goals in mind, and is one of the few governments in modern British history that can actually say that it achieved all the major goals it set out to accomplish. In 1948, Attlees health secretary Aneurin Bevan established the National Health Service, in spite of massive opposition from the medical establishment. For the first time, poor families were able to receive publicly funded healthcare without means testing: where poor families had to prove their eligibility before receiving free healthcare. The NHS treated 8.5 million dental patients and distributed more than 5 million pairs of glasses in its first year of operation alone, whilst deaths from pneumonia and TB were also significantly reduced. The NHS is one major aspect of the Attlee legacy which continues to the present day: if a politician declares that they do not support it, it can mean the end for their political career. Even Thatcher, despite her numerous cuts to other areas of the public sector, left the NHS untouched out of necessity for her political survival.

Every British citizen has benefitted at some point in their lives from the numerous welfare state reforms introduced. Attlee set out to correct the vices of British society laid out in the 1946 Beveridge Report, starting with the 1946 National Insurance Act, in which people paid a flat rate of National Insurance in return for flat-rate pensions, sickness benefits, unemployment benefit and funeral benefit, as well as increases in aid to deprived children, elderly people and the handicapped. The immediate effect of this was massive decreases in rates of infant mortality, and an increased life expectancy.

The Attlee government made great strides in improving womens circumstances, and improving their opportunities: the 1949 Married Women (Restraint upon Restriction Act) was passed to render inoperative any restrictions attached to the enjoyment of property by a woman, making women more financially independent. Various measures were also carried out to improve conditions for workers: the nationalisation of key industries during the Attlee years, including coal, steel and the railways brought significant material benefits to workers, including higher wages, reduced working hours, and much safer working conditions. The notoriously dangerous mining industry was given some much needed reforms, including a ban on boys under 16 being allowed to go underground.

Moreover, in the face of foreign policy, Attlee remained unafraid to propose new ideas which disregarded the status quo. Although he was as equally opposed to the Red Terror as every other mainstream politician, he notably one proposed that if the money wasted on arms could be used to help the less developed nations, that would probably be a greater blow against the Communist danger than anything else.

The Attlee government oversaw the beginning of post-war immigration to the UK, through the advertising to members of former colonies who wished to work in the UK, including the 1948 Empire Windrush, which carried 493 Jamaicans wishing to start a new life in Britain, and has since become one of the most enduring symbols of multiculturalism in Britain.

Attlee and is government deserves credit not only because it was able to carry out all of its desires reforms in the most dire economic circumstances; it also deserves credit as it offered assistance to those who truly needed it- the most vulnerable in society, and it did much to dramatically increase their circumstances. Although Attlee didnt succeed in entirely transforming British society into a socialist one, it did succeed in implementing a number of permanently enduring socialist legacies.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Staceyxxx said:


> Oh i live in a pit community and in the next village they are partying celebrating, they have made a guy fawkes with her face on, bought a coffin and by party there is about 300 people all doing a pub crawl, shop keepers are shutting up and joining in etc etc, the police are swarming the village, thank god because half of these people are under 20!!


*I hope they don't turn it into some mindless riot. They will do more good by keeping it peaceful. It's their community, why ruin it.*


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> Well, the truth appears to be that whilst people are protesting and boo'ing, there are more than enough people in attendance to honour the woman and they are managing to drown out those who are not.
> 
> Well done them I say!!!! :thumbup:


At least some know how to show dignity and respect unlike the great unwashed under-20 wannabee miners....pmsl


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *I hope they don't turn it into some mindless riot. They will do more good by keeping it peaceful. It's their community, why ruin it.*


i didnt buy popcorn, stella and a pizza to watch anything peaceful

i want batons, water cannon and big police horse charges, they want to relive Orgreave, lets go for it!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Well i've not seen one protester. Talk about rigged.*


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> Perhaps that would be less anger about the costs if we knew why Mrs Thatcher has had a ceremonial funeral. Way back on this thread (or one of the others) someone did say it was because she was the serving PM when we were at war over the Falklands.
> 
> I have read that for a state funeral it has to be agreed by parliament, whereas a ceremonial has to be agreed by the Queen - the last one was for Winston Churchill and the Queen hasn't attended any PMs funerals since (but then how many are dead).
> 
> I will ask my personal history buff when I next see him (aka my Dad, he knows everything


BBC News - Prime ministers&#039; funerals from Pitt to Heath

A list of prime ministers funerals



> List of ceremonial funerals since the accession of Elizabeth II
> 
> Queen Mary, 1953, St. George's Chapel, Windsor Castle
> The Earl Mountbatten of Burma, 1979, Westminster Abbey[3]
> ...


eek - from wiki, but I am sure a bit more googling may confirm this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_funeral_(UK)

more info here - sort of an idiots guide to state vs ceremonial funerals. State funerals, ceremonial funerals, and Margaret Thatcher

this is interesting:


> Thatcher was understood to have decided that she should not have a state funeral. *She was understood to fear that a parliamentary bill, which would have to be passed to permit public funds for a state funeral, could prompt a divisive debate.* It is also understood that she did not wish to lie in state.


Margaret Thatcher 'feared divisive debate in parliament' over state funeral | Politics | guardian.co.uk

more info here:
Baroness Thatcher, State Funerals and Ceremonial Funerals | Law & Religion UK including the pdf note issued by the house of commons!


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## Staceyxxx (Mar 24, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *I hope they don't turn it into some mindless riot. They will do more good by keeping it peaceful. It's their community, why ruin it.*


I know, but with all these kids who can't handle their beer who knows what will happen!


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Hundreds of protesters apparently turned their backs on the procession as it neared Ludgate Circus - how the hell did BBC cameras miss such a huge obvious thing?


----------



## fierceabby (May 16, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> BBC News - Prime ministers' funerals from Pitt to Heath
> 
> A list of prime ministers funerals
> 
> eek - from wiki, but I am sure a bit more googling may confirm this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_funeral_(UK)


Made me think of this - hee hee

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-c...ipedia-71e3bf7ff5d720cb0a52824ca9b74346_h.jpg


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> the difference in conspiracy theories, and the suggestion the BBC would intervene in coverage


There have been several BBC officials and journalists and other members of media who admitted to misrepresentation of the miners strikes... in particular those surrounding Orgreave.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Tinder said:


> Hundreds of protesters apparently turned their backs on the procession as it neared Ludgate Circus - how the hell did BBC cameras miss such a huge obvious thing?


*I have been watching since it all started. The BBC should be ashamed of itself.*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

fierceabby said:


> Made me think of this - hee hee
> 
> http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-c...ipedia-71e3bf7ff5d720cb0a52824ca9b74346_h.jpg


Love that pic! :thumbup:


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Staceyxxx said:


> I know, but with all these kids who can't handle their beer who knows what will happen!


Bloody fools! This is what worries me about the protests. Some idiot numpty decides its a good idea to pick a fight and all those genuinly protesting (and despite what the bbc showed, ive seen enough via twitter and cnn to know there were many!) are tarred with the same brush. I say well done to those who protested today and completed their process peacefully!


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *I have been watching since it all started. The BBC should be ashamed of itself.*


I thought it was quite good

would you rather the world saw a few drunk students and numpties singing the red flag?


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> I thought it was quite good
> 
> would you rather the world saw a few drunk students and numpties singing the red flag?


If it were only the students, or numpties (matter of opinion there - I class the numpties as those who start violence)... the cnn and ITV showed those boo'ing and chanting... the average age I would say was around 50!


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> I thought it was quite good
> 
> would you rather the world saw a few drunk students and numpties singing the red flag?


*It's not about what i would like to see. What the F do we pay our tv licence for, to be fed b*llsh*t?
It comes to something when we have to watch news from other countries to know what is going on in our own.*


----------



## fierceabby (May 16, 2011)

It does a disservice to all those who feel they want to protest and do it quietly. Instead as you say they will all be tarred with the same brush. And the rent a mob/jump on the bandwagon but start a riot types make any protest pointless. It's like the 'who ever raises his voice first loses the argument' thing. 
I can't explain myself properly on the iphone avec chubby fingers and lack of sleep but I hope I have made sense...


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Staceyxxx said:


> Oh i live in a pit community and in the next village they are partying celebrating, they have made a guy fawkes with her face on, bought a coffin and by party there is about 300 people all doing a pub crawl, shop keepers are shutting up and joining in etc etc, the police are swarming the village, thank god because half of these people are under 20!!


Really? I live in a pit village too, its business as usual here , or at least ive not heard about anything going off anyway.

My kids are around that age they know both sets of Grandads and their Dad were on strike for a year without any money..and they know Maggie and Scargill were the cause, but non of it affected them, its just interesting history for them...My eldest is at work and youngests away at uni so they dont have time to go around burning effigies even if they wanted to lol.
.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

3dogs2cats said:


> I don`t think it can be `Exactly like North Korea` though. As you and others have found there are lots of ways of seeing/ hearing alternative coverage of the funeral, no body has to just stick to the BBC accounts of it. I would lay money on the people of NK not having the same amount of choice in Media as we do in the UK.


Whilst I agree we arent quite at north Korea yet (the internet in banned in NK, and tv's can only use the gvt approved frequencies), the fact that uk media agencies are still filtering the news towards a bias is very disturbing. It smacks of NK censorship and I do wonder how far they will take it!

If it smells like sh!t, looks like sh!t...then it probably is sh!t


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Tinder said:


> Hundreds of protesters apparently turned their backs on the procession as it neared Ludgate Circus - *how the hell did BBC cameras miss such a huge obvious thing?*


They weren't near enough the front to get on camera?

They were on the wrong side to be picked up on the camera?

The honourable respecters moved in such a way as to hide them from the cameras?

That's just 3 options off the the top of me bonce.....


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> Whilst I agree we arent quite at north Korea yet (the internet in banned in NK, and tv's can only use the gvt approved frequencies), the fact that uk media agencies are still filtering the news towards a bias is very disturbing. It smacks of NK censorship and I do wonder how far they will take it!
> 
> If it smells like sh!t, looks like sh!t...then it probably is sh!t


*And not forget our internet is now monitored. And this is Britain 2013. We are getting more like a dictatorship every day.*


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> They weren't near enough the front to get on camera?
> 
> They were on the wrong side to be picked up on the camera?
> 
> ...


They were following from the front

Protesters were on both sides

Riot police swarmed the protesters to block view... however the bbc cut to a scene of the cathedral during that section!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

JAChihuahua said:


> They were following from the front
> 
> Protesters were on both sides
> 
> Riot police swarmed the protesters to block view... however the bbc cut to a scene of the cathedral during that section!


The protesters, it appears, don't warrant news coverage if they are behaving peacefully and with dignity. So they will appear on the BBC only if they behave in such a way that fits in with the narrative that is being insisted on at the moment that only those outside of "decent" society object to a publicly funded funeral.

Some more balanced images here:

Funeral picture desk


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

MoggyBaby said:


> Well, the truth appears to be that whilst people are protesting and boo'ing, there are more than enough people in attendance to honour the woman and they are managing to drown out those who are not.


Well, that is the truth according to the BBC - but as is rapidly being proved this morning; they cannot be trusted.



3dogs2cats said:


> I don`t think it can be `Exactly like North Korea` though. As you and others have found there are lots of ways of seeing/ hearing alternative coverage of the funeral, no body has to just stick to the BBC accounts of it. I would lay money on the people of NK not having the same amount of choice in Media as we do in the UK.


Pehaps it is not quite as bad as in NK - yet! - but do you not find it deeply disturbing that the powers that be in this country can order the main media channels to present a biased vew - a view that is deliberately engineered to give people in this country a view that is wrong? How can it be right that Al Jazeera are giving a more accurate picture of what is happening in this country than the BBC?



Colliebarmy said:


> the difference in conspiracy theories, and the suggestion the BBC would intervene in coverage


What conspiracy theory? The channels showing a different version from the BBC were there for everyone to watch.


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Some more balanced images here:
> 
> Funeral picture desk


Couldn't see this?


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Now I can, sorry!


----------



## fierceabby (May 16, 2011)

myshkin said:


> The protesters, it appears, don't warrant news coverage if they are behaving peacefully and with dignity. So they will appear on the BBC only if they behave in such a way that fits in with the narrative that is being insisted on at the moment that only those outside of "decent" society object to a publicly funded funeral.
> 
> Some more balanced images here:
> 
> Funeral picture desk


It's interesting to see a wide variety of pics. That woman 'with a patriotic dog' makes me think, have half of these people gone to get more use out of their Union Jack purchases?


----------



## Staceyxxx (Mar 24, 2011)

For the first time EVER the school has had to put emergency procedures in place..

*We have been informed that there will be significant disturbance this afternoon (wednesday 17.4.13) this presents serious health and safety concerns for our students. With this in mind we are putting the following EMERGENCY procedures in place:
Ks3 parents are invited to collect their children from 1.00pm if they wish
For those students who are not being picked up, we will keep them on site until 4.00pm - films and activities will be provided for them
The buses will collect all remaining students at 4.00pm- they have been advised of the position and asked to come to school via the 'long way round'

Thank you for your support*


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

myshkin said:


> The protesters, it appears, don't warrant news coverage if they are behaving peacefully and with dignity. So they will appear on the BBC only if they behave in such a way that fits in with the narrative that is being insisted on at the moment that only those outside of "decent" society object to a publicly funded funeral.
> 
> Some more balanced images here:
> 
> Funeral picture desk


Might have to print that one of Osborne crying for my dartboard! :devil:


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

myshkin said:


> *The protesters, it appears, don't warrant news coverage if they are behaving peacefully and with dignity.* So they will appear on the BBC only if they behave in such a way that fits in with the narrative that is being insisted on at the moment that only those outside of "decent" society object to a publicly funded funeral.


Are the protesters there to protest or to just be on the telly????

If they feel they have made their protest point, does it REALLY matter??


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Staceyxxx said:


> For the first time EVER the school has had to put emergency procedures in place..
> 
> *We have been informed that there will be significant disturbance this afternoon (wednesday 17.4.13) this presents serious health and safety concerns for our students. With this in mind we are putting the following EMERGENCY procedures in place:
> Ks3 parents are invited to collect their children from 1.00pm if they wish
> ...


Thats really worrying! Stay safe, you and your family.

I really hope the yobs out to cause violence in pretence of protest dont cause any riots. I support protests, but I can never support the violent idiots who join in just to cause trouble.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

fierceabby said:


> It's interesting to see a wide variety of pics. That woman 'with a patriotic dog' makes me think, have half of these people gone to get more use out of their Union Jack purchases?


Its only a Union Jack when flown from the jack staff of a UK navy ship....(i.e. the flag pole at the pointy end) but, like it being a distress signal if flown upside down, who know these things nowadays?


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Tinder said:


> Now I can, sorry!


My twitchy hands b*ggered up the link at the first attempt, sorry 



JAChihuahua said:


> Might have to print that one of Osborne crying for my dartboard! :devil:


I liked that one too. Lizard people grieve too, who knew?


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> Are the protesters there to protest or to just be on the telly????
> 
> If they feel they have made their protest point, does it REALLY matter??


What matters is that the bbc is flooded with tearful and clapping members of public, but cannot offer the balanced view of those protesting peacefully.

Any sort of bias is dangerous, and I would still be furious if all they showed were the protestors, and not those who are there to mourne.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

wheres the water cannon?


----------



## fierceabby (May 16, 2011)

Staceyxxx said:


> For the first time EVER the school has had to put emergency procedures in place..
> 
> *We have been informed that there will be significant disturbance this afternoon (wednesday 17.4.13) this presents serious health and safety concerns for our students. With this in mind we are putting the following EMERGENCY procedures in place:
> Ks3 parents are invited to collect their children from 1.00pm if they wish
> ...


What does that even mean? 'We have been informed that there will be significant disturbance this afternoon' - Have they been warned it's a dead cert by protestors or the police just being extra cautious? Do you think it'll come to nothing? Hope you stay safe and it doesn't descend into violence


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

myshkin said:


> My twitchy hands b*ggered up the link at the first attempt, sorry
> 
> I liked that one too. Lizard people grieve too, who knew?


Crocodile tears


----------



## Staceyxxx (Mar 24, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Thats really worrying! Stay safe, you and your family.
> 
> I really hope the yobs out to cause violence in pretence of protest dont cause any riots. I support protests, but I can never support the violent idiots who join in just to cause trouble.


I know luckily its a mile away but i can see it spilling down here too. I know what you mean half of these don't even know why it is happening and are just going to cause trouble and for 2 minutes of fame, sky news, calendar, bbc news and all the papers are there!


----------



## fierceabby (May 16, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> Its only a Union Jack when flown from the jack staff of a UK navy ship....(i.e. the flag pole at the pointy end) but, like it being a distress signal if flown upside down, who know these things nowadays?


I knew it was distress if upside down, so I should have said Union Flag? (Is that right?) (adding to pub quiz knowledge!)


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> What matters is that the bbc is flooded with tearful and clapping members of public, but cannot offer the balanced view of those protesting peacefully.
> 
> Any sort of bias is dangerous, and I would still be furious if all they showed were the protestors, and not those who are there to mourne.


if the ratio of those paying respects to demonstrators was 100 to 1 why should the 1 get any airtime, it would be disproportionate to grant them any more than a few seconds

does the BBC give moslem flag burners any airtime on armistice day from the Cenotaph?


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

fierceabby said:


> I knew it was distress if upside down, so I should have said Union Flag? (Is that right?) (adding to pub quiz knowledge!)


or flag of the union

and why was Wales not included on the flag?...(next question)


----------



## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *And not forget our internet is now monitored. And this is Britain 2013. We are getting more like a dictatorship every day.*


But, you I, lots of other PFers, hundreds of people around the country are freely giving there views. None of us seem overly concerned about the internet being monitored, lets face it on here we worry more about the Mods closing a thread cos it has got out of hand, than the police knocking on the door because we have told people that there protests at a funeral and the BBC are not showing it.

Dog trying to help me write this, got her nose shoved under my typing hand!! obviously keen to get her views heard I think she is asking for free sausages for all doggies


----------



## Staceyxxx (Mar 24, 2011)

fierceabby said:


> What does that even mean? 'We have been informed that there will be significant disturbance this afternoon' - Have they been warned it's a dead cert by protestors or the police just being extra cautious? Do you think it'll come to nothing? Hope you stay safe and it doesn't descend into violence


300 people so far all drinking and protesting from allover the country, and having a anti thatcher funeral as they call it, think its a dead cert there will be trouble, those poor kids, that village has 2 nurseys, 2 schools and a high school bet they must be petrified


----------



## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Crocodile tears


He had onions in his pockets


----------



## fierceabby (May 16, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> or flag of the union
> 
> and why was Wales not included on the flag?...(next question)


Thanks.

Erm I don't know. TIBERIUS! 
(When I don't know pub quiz answers I always put Tiberius as that one always comes up! - lol )

I'll google it now so the thread doesn't turn into a pub quiz


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> Its only a Union Jack when flown from the jack staff of a UK navy ship....(i.e. the flag pole at the pointy end) but, like it being a distress signal if flown upside down, who know these things nowadays?





fierceabby said:


> I knew it was distress if upside down, so I should have said Union Flag? (Is that right?) (adding to pub quiz knowledge!)





Colliebarmy said:


> or flag of the union
> 
> and why was Wales not included on the flag?...(next question)


here you go!



> The Union Jack or The Union Flag?
> When the 'Union Jack' was first introduced in 1606, it was known simply as 'the British flag' or 'the flag of Britain', and was ordered to be flown at the main masthead of all ships, warships and merchant ships, of both England and Scotland.
> The first use of the name 'Union' appears in 1625. There are various theories as how it became known as the 'Union Jack', but most of the evidence points to the name being derived from the use of the word 'jack' as a diminutive. This word was in use before 1600 to describe a small flag flown from the small mast mounted on the bowsprit, and by 1627 it appears that a small version of the Union flag was commonly flown in this position. For some years it was called just 'the Jack', or 'Jack flag', or 'the King's Jack', but by 1674, while formally referred to as 'His Majesty's Jack', it was commonly called the Union Jack, and this was officially acknowledged.
> 
> ...


The Union Jack or The Union Flag?

so it seems to union flag (or national flag) is a fairly recent idea in respect to its history!

sorry... now back on topic!


----------



## fierceabby (May 16, 2011)

Staceyxxx said:


> 300 people so far all drinking and protesting from allover the country, and having a anti thatcher funeral as they call it, think its a dead cert there will be trouble, those poor kids, that village has 2 nurseys, 2 schools and a high school bet they must be petrified


That's a lot of extra peeps 'in high spirits' *ahem* to contend with. Hope it stays relatively calm.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> if the ratio of those paying respects to demonstrators was 100 to 1 why should the 1 get any airtime, it would be disproportionate to grant them any more than a few seconds
> 
> does the BBC give moslem flag burners any airtime on armistice day from the Cenotaph?


Where did you get those figures?

Ive just been watching the parade and saw many many people just quietly turning their backs. They didnt shout or wave flags, but they were protesting nonetheless. I would say its more like 20-30% protesting - but thats just from what I have seen so far of the parade.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

3dogs2cats said:


> But, you I, lots of other PFers, hundreds of people around the country are freely giving there views. None of us seem overly concerned about the internet being monitored, lets face it on here we worry more about the Mods closing a thread cos it has got out of hand, than the police knocking on the door because we have told people that there protests at a funeral and the BBC are not showing it.
> 
> Dog trying to help me write this, got her nose shoved under my typing hand!! obviously keen to get her views heard I think she is asking for free sausages for all doggies


*If you post certain things on FB or twitter it can be held against you, as was proven last week or the week before with a girl that was between 14 and 16 years old.
Gone are the days when we can be proud of our freedom of speech. And much of that is down to Cameron.*


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Staceyxxx said:


> I know luckily its a mile away but i can see it spilling down here too. I know what you mean half of these don't even know why it is happening and are just going to cause trouble and for 2 minutes of fame, sky news, calendar, bbc news and all the papers are there!


Stay safe whatever happens. I really hope these planks dont kick off, all it will do is serve to prove that Thatcher and her supporters are right, and that those who dont agree with her (or the public spending funeral) are the yobs she always thought we were!


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

MoggyBaby said:


> If they feel they have made their protest point, does it REALLY matter??


Yes, to those of us who prefer the truth it really does matter.

Do you not think it matters that the "official" version of the event is going to be wrong? Don't you think it matters that the version that goes down in the annals is going to be wrong? Doesn't the truth matter to you? Is all that matters to you is that an ex-tory leader is portrayed as being respected by the whole nation, irrespective of the truth of that?



Colliebarmy said:


> if the ratio of those paying respects to demonstrators was 100 to 1 why should the 1 get any airtime, it would be disproportionate to grant them any more than a few seconds


 And how do you know those are the correct ratios when all you have done is believe the BBC?


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *If you post certain things on FB or twitter it can be held against you, as was proven last week or the week before with a girl that was between 14 and 16 years old.
> Gone are the days when we can be proud of our freedom of speech. And much of that is down to Cameron.*


I'd say it was down to the irresponsible people who didn't realise that having the right to freedom of speech comes with using it responsibly. Too many abused this right and, as a result, there came a need for regulation.

Where do you draw the line? If I pass a comment on someones colour / race / religion I could say I am allowed, its my right to freedom of speech. But others would say I am a racist / bigot etc and tell me that I can't / shouldn't say those things even if freedom of speech says that I can?

Who is right and who is wrong?


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *If you post certain things on FB or twitter it can be held against you*


Quite right too

Anyone with a brain and anything to hide would think before posting stuff on the net

actually thats hardly monitoring

THIS is monitoring and i - for one - think we should be grateful for it, and all ISP's have black boxes on servers for security and criminal checking of internet traffic

(unless you prefer unfettered terrorist planning)



> ECHELON is a name used in global media and in popular culture to describe a signals intelligence (SIGINT) collection and analysis network operated on behalf of the five signatory states to the UKUSA Security Agreement (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States, referred to by a number of abbreviations, including AUSCANNZUKUS[ and Five Eyes).It has also been described as the only software system which controls the download and dissemination of the intercept of commercial satellite trunk communications.


ECHELON - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Staceyxxx said:


> For the first time EVER the school has had to put emergency procedures in place..
> 
> *We have been informed that there will be significant disturbance this afternoon (wednesday 17.4.13) this presents serious health and safety concerns for our students. With this in mind we are putting the following EMERGENCY procedures in place:
> Ks3 parents are invited to collect their children from 1.00pm if they wish
> ...


*I'm glad that the parents can collect their children if they can.
I hope to god, all people stay safe.*


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> And how do you know those are the correct ratios when all you have done is believe the BBC?


How do you know they are not correct?


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

3dogs2cats said:


> But, you I, lots of other PFers, hundreds of people around the country are freely giving there views. None of us seem overly concerned about the internet being monitored, lets face it on here we worry more about the Mods closing a thread cos it has got out of hand, than the police knocking on the door because we have told people that there protests at a funeral and the BBC are not showing it.
> 
> Dog trying to help me write this, got her nose shoved under my typing hand!! obviously keen to get her views heard I think she is asking for free sausages for all doggies


Thats because at the moment, posting about your dissatisfaction with past or present government is not illegal in this country. However I have been told by some that they agree with the censorship, and perhaps the gvt should introduce laws to prevent people speaking against the gvt or its leaders! I will leave the country if that ever happens!


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> Quite right too
> 
> Anyone with a brain and anything to hide would think before posting stuff on the net
> 
> ...


*You will always find good and bad in all walks of life. But what they should be doing is dealing with those people that are a REAL threat to this country. Don't waste valuable time on some school kid.*


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

On Sky it says there were protesters but much smaller numbers than anticipated - could that be why not seen on the TV?

BBC did at least televise it - ITV chose to show Jeremy Kyle instead so does that make them more or less biased than the BBC!


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> How do you know they are not correct?


I don't - and neither do you. That's the whole point.


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> On Sky it says there were protesters but much smaller numbers than anticipated - could that be why not seen on the TV?
> 
> BBC did at least televise it - ITV chose to show Jeremy Kyle instead so does that make them more or less biased than the BBC!


I say good on ITV for not succumbing to the "oh wasn't she wonderful, let's forget all the bad she did just because she's dead" bias. :thumbsup:

Normally I'd rather poke my eyes with a sharp stick than watch Jeremy Kyle - but I'd rather watch Jeremy Kyle than be fed bullshit by the BBC.


----------



## Staceyxxx (Mar 24, 2011)

Oh its on all the news, if anyone see's it from barnsley that is it.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

MoggyBaby said:


> I'd say it was down to the irresponsible people who didn't realise that having the right to freedom of speech comes with using it responsibly. Too many abused this right and, as a result, there came a need for regulation.
> 
> Where do you draw the line? If I pass a comment on someones colour / race / religion I could say I am allowed, its my right to freedom of speech. But others would say I am a racist / bigot etc and tell me that I can't / shouldn't say those things even if freedom of speech says that I can?
> 
> Who is right and who is wrong?


*Once you start saying people cannot voice their opinions you are on very dodgy ground.
Now as an example, if a black person calls me a white so and so, i have 2 choices. I can take it in my stride or make something of it.
As much as someone has the right to tell me i'm wrong, i have the same right to reply.
I have to laugh at some peoples attitude, because we teach our kids, " sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me". That is still my rule.*


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> I say good on ITV for not succumbing to the "oh wasn't she wonderful, let's forget all the bad she did just because she's dead" bias. :thumbsup:
> 
> Normally I'd rather poke my eyes with a sharp stick than watch Jeremy Kyle - but I'd rather watch Jeremy Kyle than be fed bullshit by the BBC.


ITV have been filming, their twitter feed is full of video clips, so I expect that to be on the news.

I agree that there were much less vocal protesters there than anticipated, however I still saw many people quietly turning their backs. I would also bet money that many of those who did not show any signs of being for/against were also there just to be sure the old bag was gone!

Just because not everyone was shouting or waving placards, does not mean they were there in support of Thatcher. Fox news had a clip of an elderly gentleman (will try to find it) just now who went to the funeral so he could be sure she was definatly gone! His wife had been one of the protesters at Greenham common (incidentally one of the most successful protests of the modern age!).


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Might have to print that one of Osborne crying for my dartboard! :devil:


Cameron and wifey laughing at the same time though!?? Bunch of weirdos the lot of 'em!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Tinder said:


> Cameron and wifey laughing at the same time though!?? Bunch of weirdos the lot of 'em!


I'm more worried about fergie! The expression on her face is like Lady when she has let out a really loud fart! Indignation that her bum might have made such a noise she has to turn round to look at it! :sosp:


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> ITV have been filming, their twitter feed is full of video clips, so I expect that to be on the news.
> 
> I agree that there were much less vocal protesters there than anticipated, however I still saw many people quietly turning their backs. I would also bet money that many of those who did not show any signs of being for/against were also there just to be sure the old bag was gone!
> 
> Just because not everyone was shouting or waving placards, does not mean they were there in support of Thatcher. Fox news had a clip of an elderly gentleman (will try to find it) just now who went to the funeral so he could be sure she was definatly gone! His wife had been one of the protesters at Greenham common (incidentally one of the most successful protests of the modern age!).


Just want to add, that so far I am really proud that those who did attend and protest (vocally or quietly in their own way) werent marred by plonkers out for a fight!

Funny how this thread is now about the protesters not getting the media coverage, it would have been very different if anything had kicked off. Be proud that the uk citizens who attended did so peacefully whatever side their convictions sat on.


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Once you start saying people cannot voice their opinions you are on very dodgy ground.
> Now as an example, if a black person calls me a white so and so, i have 2 choices. I can take it in my stride or make something of it.
> As much as someone has the right to tell me i'm wrong, i have the same right to reply.
> I have to laugh at some peoples attitude, because we teach our kids, " sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me". That is still my rule.*


If I call someone a black so-and-so, they can go to the police and I get done for it. There will be far more people saying that I "deserve what I get as I should not have said what I did" than not. Very few will say I have a right to say such things under freedom of speech.

Anyway, we digress from the main topic.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> Just want to add, that so far I am really proud that those who did attend and protest (vocally or quietly in their own way) werent marred by plonkers out for a fight!
> 
> Funny how this thread is now about the protesters not getting the media coverage, it would have been very different if anything had kicked off. Be proud that the uk citizens who attended did so peacefully whatever side their convictions sat on.


*I think the majority that belonged to certain groups were asked to just turn their backs. And well done to all that didn't cause any trouble.*


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

See comments like this on FB warm my heart that we aren't a world full of hate filled souls............

"I find it both sad and an embarrassing as a Nation that somebody who worked there whole working life for the good of the Country and others is being treated this way by people who never knew her. She did not fiddle her expenses, she did not let us get ruled by Europe, she stood up to terrorists, anarchists , Argentines, communists and didn't let Unions dictate to government. Whichever bit of her politics you may or may not agree with is your choice. However celebrating the death of an old lady creating music and movies etc and sharing them shows a disgusting lack of common decency and an sets an appalling example to your children which makes you a sad reflection of society. Please let these Grandchildren bury their Grandmother in peace. If you can't keep you celebrations down for this one day please unfriend me."

Here here that man my feeling EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Anyway, we digress from the main topic.


OMG! we never did that Moggy
Thought only I did that

Check out my other thread paying my last respects to Maggie moggy:devil:
Doubt that will get so much attention


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

I'll catch up with the thread later. Off to the cemetery now to honour my own dead...

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/jue33/Misc/CIMG6307_zps8ffaa557.jpg


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Staceyxxx said:


> Oh its on all the news, if anyone see's it from barnsley that is it.


youd think from the bile coming from up they they couldnt afford a TV or electric...

Maggie Thatcher killed my hamster...eh bah gum


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

DT said:


> OMG! we never did we Moggy
> Thought only I did that
> 
> Check out my other thread paying my last respects to Maggie moggy:devil:
> Doubt that will get so much attention


what will all the ex-pitmen and villages do tomorrow?


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Meezey said:


> See comments like this on FB warm my heart that we aren't a world full of hate filled souls............
> 
> "I find it both sad and an embarrassing as a Nation that somebody who worked there whole working life for the good of the Country and others is being treated this way by people who never knew her. She did not fiddle her expenses, she did not let us get ruled by Europe, she stood up to terrorists, anarchists , Argentines, communists and didn't let Unions dictate to government. Whichever bit of her politics you may or may not agree with is your choice. However celebrating the death of an old lady creating music and movies etc and sharing them shows a disgusting lack of common decency and an sets an appalling example to your children which makes you a sad reflection of society. Please let these Grandchildren bury their Grandmother in peace. If you can't keep you celebrations down for this one day please unfriend me."
> 
> Here here that man my feeling EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!


well said....


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Meezey said:


> See comments like this on FB warm my heart that we aren't a world full of hate filled souls............
> 
> "I find it both sad and an embarrassing as a Nation that somebody who worked there whole working life for the good of the Country and others is being treated this way by people who never knew her. She did not fiddle her expenses, she did not let us get ruled by Europe, she stood up to terrorists, anarchists , Argentines, communists and didn't let Unions dictate to government. Whichever bit of her politics you may or may not agree with is your choice. However celebrating the death of an old lady creating music and movies etc and sharing them shows a disgusting lack of common decency and an sets an appalling example to your children which makes you a sad reflection of society. Please let these Grandchildren bury their Grandmother in peace. If you can't keep you celebrations down for this one day please unfriend me."
> 
> Here here that man my feeling EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Are we talking about the same person?

She may not have fiddled her expenses (has anyone looked into it?), but she sure as hell is fiddling her tax obligations!

She helped train the khmer rouge, and cosied up to dictators, was aware of the genocide in guatemala (and supported those who committed it!), along with supporting the White minority during apartheid, and not to mention the men of the belgrano or section 28!

AS for Europe, she voted for it in 1975, changed her mind in the 80's, and then changed it back in 1990 before she left!

As I have mentioned before, the music has long been associated with Thatcher. The ding dong song, hefner, elton john and elvis costello were associated with Thatcher long before she died and for much whilst she was still in power!

They are cremating her (not burying) her in peace, they held a private service last night, and are holding another as we speek!

Finally, with regards to the children... you would prefer lies and hypocracy? I wouldnt!


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> Are we talking about the same person?
> 
> She may not have fiddled her expenses (has anyone looked into it?), but she sure as hell is fiddling her tax obligations!


be careful what you say, she probably had tax advisors and stayed inside the UK tax laws


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> be careful what you say, she probably had tax advisors and stayed inside the UK tax laws


In the same way that Jimmy Carr did! It may have been legal fiddling, but fiddling it still is!


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> She helped train the khmer rouge,


in what capacity, shooting? on her days off?

:Yawn:


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

gorgeous said:


> On behalf of the lovely badgers I would like to point out their arse is not rough but as gentle as a babies!! please do not upset em!!


Someone mentioned Badgers on a Maggie thread

Good opportunity to sneak in the stop the cull petition me thinks..sorry

They are lovely Penny,have you signed this yet?...cos if we dont stop it the badgers will be more than upset :/

Stop the badger cull - e-petitions


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> In the same way that Jimmy Carr did! It may have been legal fiddling, but fiddling it still is!


fiddling infers a criminal activity....obviously thats incorrect in this case


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Someone mentioned Badgers on a Maggie thread
> 
> Good opportunity to sneak in the stop the cull petition me thinks..sorry
> 
> ...


Ive signed already....

but couldnt resist!










From badgers to flags! Lots of turns on this thread!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> Someone mentioned Badgers on a Maggie thread
> 
> Good opportunity to sneak in the stop the cull petition me thinks..sorry
> 
> ...


Maggie still serving a purpose Noush, even from her grave


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> fiddling infers a criminal activity....obviously thats incorrect in this case


only if you infer it!

Still its scandalous and morally wrong! Just the same as Jimmy carr and all the others who are tax evading!


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> Finally, with regards to the children... you would prefer lies and hypocracy? I wouldnt!


I would prefer that children where shown how to act with respect, that said kids today don't even have respect for their parents ( guess that's a whole different story), so I doubt showing respect for the dead is something they would even know about.

It's not about what she did for me, it's not about who's right and who's wrong for me it's the fact that people are so venomous about someone, who is DEAD who has not been in power since the 90's, what is wrong with people to be able to carry that much hate with them for so long???

She is STILL someones Mother and Grandmother, and that for me is the sticking point, I personally think it's disgusting in this day and age that people think it's "Ok" to protest at a funeral.....


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> fiddling infers a criminal activity....obviously thats incorrect in this case


some people don't seem to know there is a vast difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance, one being illegal the other not!


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> only if you infer it!
> 
> Still its scandalous and morally wrong! Just the same as Jimmy carr and all the others who are tax evading!


What Jimmy Carr did was tax avoidance, not evasion. So it may well be morrally wrong but it was not illegal.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> in what capacity, shooting? on her days off?
> 
> :Yawn:


lol! Now that would have made for some interesting pictures!

However...



> During the cold war, Washington actively opposed putting Pol Pot on trial. Margaret Thatcher's government followed suit with the shameful deployment of the SAS to Thailand in 1985 to promote the Khmer Rouge-led war against the Vietnamese-backed government in Phnom Penh.


Tom Fawthrop: Those who criticise the Khmer Rouge tribunal forget that Cambodians see a glass half full | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk



> Arms and other other aid only went to the non-communist groups, they said. The Khmer Rouge had changed and was now genuinely popular in some areas, they ventured. While the film The Killing Fields made many people aware of the horrors of Khmer Rouge rule, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher told a British childrens TV show in 1988 Theres a much, much reasonable grouping within that title, Khmer Rougewho will have to play some part in the future
> government.
> The British elite military unit the SAS were later revealed to have trained their fighters.


Cocktails with Khmer Rouge killers | Global News Journal


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> What Jimmy Carr did was tax avoidance, not evasion. So it may well be morrally wrong but it was not illegal.


apologies I used the wrong word.

Maggie thatcher is a tax avoider.... being legal still doesnt make it right!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Meezey said:


> I would prefer that children where shown how to act with respect, that said kids today don't even have respect for their parents ( guess that's a whole different story), so I doubt showing respect for the dead is something they would even know about.
> 
> It's not about what she did for me, it's not about who's right and who's wrong for me it's the fact that people are so venomous about someone, who is DEAD who has not been in power since the 90's, what is wrong with people to be able to carry that much hate with them for so long???
> 
> She is STILL someones Mother and Grandmother, and that for me is the sticking point, I personally think it's disgusting in this day and age that people think it's "Ok" to protest at a funeral.....


I DONT personally think its ok that some people think its OK to prevent peaceful protests!

As for respect, I keep saying this... she earned no respect from me when she was alive, why on earth should I respect her now she is dead??


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> I DONT personally think its ok that some people think its OK to prevent peaceful protests!
> 
> As for respect, I keep saying this... she earned no respect from me when she was alive, why on earth should I respect her now she is dead??


It's not about respect for HER, which you seem to keep missing it's respect for her family...

So if you god forbid lost a loved member of you family, who your neighbors hated, and they decided they would have a "peaceful" protest holding up placards with " ding dong the witch is dead", of you you'd be OK with that wouldn't you? After all we all have a right for peaceful


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Meezey said:


> It's not about respect for HER, which you seem to keep missing it's respect for her family...
> 
> So if you god forbid lost a loved member of you family, who your neighbors hated, and they decided they would have a "peaceful" protest holding up placards with " ding dong the witch is dead", of you you'd be OK with that wouldn't you? After all we all have a right for peaceful


My family are not huge public figures? You set a very dangerous precendent if you censor protesting against political figures (or the costs associated with them) alive or dead. You seem to be missing the point that Thatcher chose the ceremonial funeral, and knew it would cause issues. Her family will have been prepared for that from the time the funeral was planned (during TB years I believe?). They have had their own private ceremonies.

As for the song... mum has that in her will for her funeral party (yes a party not a solemn occasion, and because we affectionatly call her the old witch!), and my grandad had the following songs... Its getting hot in here, relight my fire, and finished with the archers theme tune danced to by morris dancers. I never said we were a conventional family, especially when it comes to death!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Meezey said:


> It's not about respect for HER, which you seem to keep missing it's respect for her family...
> 
> So if you god forbid lost a loved member of you family, who your neighbors hated, and they decided they would have a "peaceful" protest holding up placards with " ding dong the witch is dead", of you you'd be OK with that wouldn't you? After all we all have a right for peaceful


I wouldn't be ok with that, no.
But as I wouldn't expect the neighbours to pay for the funeral, it doesn't really compare. When it's paid for with public funds, it becomes something people have a right to protest against.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> My family are not huge public figures? You set a very dangerous precendent if you censor protesting against political figures (or the costs associated with them) alive or dead. You seem to be missing the point that Thatcher chose the ceremonial funeral, and knew it would cause issues. Her family will have been prepared for that from the time the funeral was planned (during TB years I believe?). They have had their own private ceremonies.
> 
> As for the song... mum has that in her will for her funeral party (yes a party not a solemn occasion, and because we affectionatly call her the old witch!), and my grandad had the following songs... Its getting hot in here, relight my fire, and finished with the archers theme tune danced to by morris dancers. I never said we were a conventional family, especially when it comes to death!


Your not answering my question thought.. So you would be fine with people turning up at your families funeral with abusive placards. You seem to be missing the point also, SHE chose not her family, SHE chose to be PM not her family, why should her grand children be exposed to that kind of hate?

I just don't get how people can hold so much hate for so long? Life is too short...............


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

myshkin said:


> I wouldn't be ok with that, no.
> But as I wouldn't expect the neighbours to pay for the funeral, it doesn't really compare. When it's paid for with public funds, it becomes something people have a right to protest against.


I totally get the cost issue and I get people being p off with that, I watched the ceremony from work, and not a lot of the placards stated about the cost, many pictures beaming round the work are of people drinking and celebrating her death, with rot in hell, ding dong the witch is dead placards etc I don't care who it is I find that disgusting!!!!!

There is no excuse or reasoning that can be applied to images like THIS being beamed round the world..


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Meezey said:


> I totally get the cost issue and I get people being p off with that, I watched the ceremony from work, and not a lot of the placards stated about the cost, many pictures beaming round the work are of people drinking and celebrating her death, with rot in hell, ding dong the witch is dead placards etc I don't care who it is I find that disgusting!!!!!
> 
> There is no excuse or reasoning that can be applied to images like THIS being beamed round the world..


Agreed, as I said on an earlier thread, however much I understand the hurt still felt in many parts of the UK (including my home town and city), to react this way is, in my opinion, to have allowed her aim of dismantling all the compassion in society to have succeeded.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Meezey said:


> I totally get the cost issue and I get people being p off with that, I watched the ceremony from work, and not a lot of the placards stated about the cost, many pictures beaming round the world *are of people drinking* and celebrating her death, with rot in hell, ding dong the witch is dead placards


I take it those protesting arent at work?..

BTW, if she was a witch, id be wary of upsetting her too much

whats green and gets you drunk?

a giro


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Your not answering my question thought.. So you would be fine with people turning up at your families funeral with abusive placards. You seem to be missing the point also, SHE chose not her family, SHE chose to be PM not her family, why should her grand children be exposed to that kind of hate?
> 
> I just don't get how people can hold so much hate for so long? Life is too short...............


If any of my family made people suffer like she did then yes i would expect the abuse.

*She chose to have children, ( why i'll never understand, as she wasn't there long enough to look after them)
As for the suffering her children " might "be going through. They can blame their mother for that. She put her career before her kids.*


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Thankgoodness those protesters held off.

LMAO just watching the service ( which I recorded ) and the camera is on a old man fast asleep ! LOL


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

There's mothers who have children, stay at home and look after them, yet still those children turn out 'wrong'


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## Staceyxxx (Mar 24, 2011)

Meezey said:


> I totally get the cost issue and I get people being p off with that, I watched the ceremony from work, and not a lot of the placards stated about the cost, many pictures beaming round the work are of people drinking and celebrating her death, with rot in hell, ding dong the witch is dead placards etc I don't care who it is I find that disgusting!!!!!
> 
> There is no excuse or reasoning that can be applied to images like THIS being beamed round the world..


This is in the next village to me


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

willa said:


> Thankgoodness those protesters held off.


There was no violence, but the protestors didn't hold off. The BBC just didn't show them. Read back a few dozen posts


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

poohdog said:


> A gigantic waste of money as usual...but hey it's not their money is it? As Dennis Skinner said in parliament yesterday...what for?....why?
> 
> The little London version of the Vatican otherwise known as the establishment love 'a bit of a do' and a day off.So they can be seen on camera, and their wives can show off their new hats.They're on another planet.
> 
> Love her or hate her...this lot is way over the top.


Ach! Dennis Skinner is only miffed he won't be getting a statesmans funeral. Jealousy is almost destructive as hate.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Agreed, as I said on an earlier thread, however much I understand the hurt still felt in many parts of the UK (including my home town and city), to react this way is, in my opinion, to have allowed her aim of dismantling all the compassion in society to have succeeded.


That's simply scapegoating someone rather than looking at the society and what is wrong with it. MT never aimed to dismantle compassion. In fact that's what is wrong with some of society.. easier to blame others than admit you yourself screwed up. Burn your mouth on hot coffee.. it's the fault of the person who supplied the coffee. I know, an extreme example but demonstrates the point. I'm sure people can supply their own examples. Compassion is learned at home, within the family. You could say hating MT actually does more damage than MT ever did herself if that acceptance of hatred is passed to the next generation.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

phew!! just trawled through all todays posts, been at work so havnt seen any of the funeral, what i can make out they havnt shown any or very little of the protesters, drowned out any chants by the band and kept cameras off any protesters, GOOD!!! Well done the bbc the protesters had their time to protest after all thats what they wanted to do, if they wanted tv coverage as well hard lines. The bbc were there to cover/show the funeral afterall.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> She may not have fiddled her expenses (has anyone looked into it?), but she sure as hell is fiddling her tax obligations!
> 
> !


you have evidence of that do you?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

haeveymolly said:


> phew!! just trawled through all todays posts, been at work so havnt seen any of the funeral, what i can make out they havnt shown any or very little of the protesters, drowned out any chants by the band and kept cameras off any protesters, GOOD!!! Well done the bbc the protesters had their time to protest after all thats what they wanted to do, if they wanted tv coverage as well hard lines. The bbc were there to cover/show the funeral afterall.


Good post HM and very well said,


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> If ant of my family made people suffer like she did then yes i would expect the abuse.
> 
> *She chose to have children, ( why i'll never understand, as she wasn't there long enough to look after them)
> As for the suffering her children " might "be going through. They can blame their mother for that. She put her career before her kids.*


Holy good god are you for real lmao..... So sod her children and grand children?? Because she chose to work?? Put her career before her kids, so I take it all women should be at home 24/7 looking after their children while their "men" earn the living and wear the trousers?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Holy good god are you for real lmao..... So sod her children and grand children?? Because she chose to work?? Put her career before her kids, so I take it all women should be at home 24/7 looking after their children while their "men" earn the living and wear the trousers?


Fraid so!
There are some that want the best of both worlds


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> Ach! Dennis Skinner is only miffed he won't be getting a statesmans funeral. Jealousy is almost destructive as hate.


Now if anyone deserves a statesman's funeral it is Dennis Skinner. He is one politician who has never been on the fiddle and is always working for his constituents. When you see a mere half dozen MPs in the House of Commons actually there, doing the work they're supposed to be doing, Dennis Skinner is always one of them. He has worked tirelessly for the state all his political life. That is the kind of work we should be rewarding, not the work of someone who decimated the country's industry, devastated many, many lives, wrecked whole communities, associated with dictators, and has so many tax avoidance scams going it is untrue,.


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> well clinics finished, although I am officially still on duty.... 17 non attendees (not including the 2 who did bother to ring and cancel)  More than average, and I suspect the funeral has something to do with it! Rather watch TV than attend your hospital appointment!
> 
> Ive sorted a thorough clean for the clinic rooms as they wont be used again until after 2pm, sorted the stock cupboard, filled out my paperwork, sent the non attendance letters, tidied the sluice and rearranged the waiting room. I wish we were allowed to go onto another ward or unit to help out but we cannot, (unless under very special circumstances), although it seems many of the outpatients clinics today are eerily empty .
> 
> People, if you cant/wont attend your appointment, at least let us know, there are others waiting to be treated who would have loved to attend today!


Eh! I attended my hospital appointment 11.15am - clinic was running 45 mins late, so plenty of folks attended. I didn't watch the funeral - just caught up with the news when I got home. I don't think I've ever missed a hospital appointment in my life. There are many reasons why patients miss hospital appointments - not just to miff you off I'm sure


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I dont normally agree with the media withholding information and keeping things from us - I'm not at all comfortable with that.

However in this case I think they did the right thing not showing any rowdy protesters - some of whom are there purely to cause trouble and get on the bandwagon....at a funeral ?? I still think its bloody awful regardless of how you feel about MT - she is dead ....celebrate that however you wish in your own way

I think these people are just selfish ...and it really does show what calibre our society is right now! like it has been said - this is NOT a lesson we want our children to learn! no wonder we have kids of 14/17 going round killing others because we are not teaching them the fundamental morals and have adults acting like idots hanging effergies out of the window?? .....two words - GROW UP


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> I dont normally agree with the media withholding information and keeping things from us - I'm not at all comfortable with that.
> 
> However in this case I think they did the right thing not showing any rowdy protesters - some of whom are there purely to cause trouble and get on the bandwagon....at a funeral ?? I still think its bloody awful regardless of how you feel about MT - she is dead ....celebrate that however you wish in your own way
> 
> I think these people are just selfish ...and it really does show what calibre our society is right now! like it has been said - this is NOT a lesson we want our children to learn! no wonder we have kids of 14/17 going round killing others because we are not teaching them the fundamental morals and have adults acting like idots hanging effergies out of the window?? .....two words - GROW UP


Another well said post


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> Ach! Dennis Skinner is only miffed he won't be getting a statesmans funeral. Jealousy is almost destructive as hate.


From Wiki (but actually true!):
He often tells of turning up for work at his colliery after he had been elected as an MP, refusing to see this as his new occupation. This is the reason Skinner gives for refusing to miss any sitting in the House of Commons, saying that "if you missed a shift at the pit, you would get the sack". He also refuses to adopt the pairing system in which he can agree a mutual abstention with a Conservative MP, saying he won't cover for them whilst they "go swanning off to Ascot or to their boardrooms". In the 20042005 sitting of the House he claimed the least expenses for an MP who served the full year.[20] He has never been a member of an All-Party Parliamentary Group; does not eat alongside parliamentary colleagues in the Commons dining room; does not take trips or holidays 'paid for' by others; never drinks in the Commons Bar; and stays in the House of Commons during the Queen's Speech at the State Opening of Parliament, as he advocates outright abolition of the House of Lords.

Yep he sounds just the type to demand a state funeral!


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> I dont normally agree with the media withholding information and keeping things from us - I'm not at all comfortable with that.
> 
> However in this case I think they did the right thing not showing any rowdy protesters - some of whom are there purely to cause trouble and get on the bandwagon....at a funeral ?? I still think its bloody awful regardless of how you feel about MT - she is dead ....celebrate that however you wish in your own way
> 
> I think these people are just selfish ...and it really does show what calibre our society is right now! like it has been said - this is NOT a lesson we want our children to learn! no wonder we have kids of 14/17 going round killing others because we are not teaching them the fundamental morals and have adults acting like idots hanging effergies out of the window?? .....two words - GROW UP


*And where were the " rowdy " protesters? LOL more of what the BBC will have you believe.*


----------



## Willylee (Mar 21, 2013)

Like or loathe Baroness Thatcher, one thing is for certain, she would be tickled pink, giggling in her whisky at all of those people who protest. That is what she stood for, change, freedom including the right to protest.
Sadly for those people, put them to the test on a debating floor she would handbag the lot, individually or collectively as a good discussion based on truth, fact and honestly put her in No10 on three occasions.
Sure, she errored, but compared to the politicians of late, she was a saint!!
The manner of such protestations, recently exhibited, well I believe beggars belief and I will sleep tonighted thanking my God, those people are not in power and never will be.
The Beeb did a great job, just one mention of missiles being thrown that spooked a few horses. What or why is that deemed a protest and by whom?
Great the Queen was in attendance too, like Margaret she supports this once great nation.
Where was Neil Kinnock? Best comedy act ever heard on the BBC. Prime Ministers question time. I howled every morning in the car on the way to work.
The right to protest is for everyone, but standards should be maintained, dignity (the protesters also) and respect upheld.
Abide in a loving world and you have lovely people.
Living in a world of hatred and you have.........full prisons.
She will undoubtedly rest in peace, unlike the protesters.

Willylee


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> I dont normally agree with the media withholding information and keeping things from us - I'm not at all comfortable with that.
> 
> However in this case I think they did the right thing not showing any rowdy protesters - some of whom are there purely to cause trouble and get on the bandwagon....at a funeral ?? I still think its bloody awful regardless of how you feel about MT - she is dead ....celebrate that however you wish in your own way
> 
> I think these people are just selfish ...and it really does show what calibre our society is right now! like it has been said - this is NOT a lesson we want our children to learn! no wonder we have kids of 14/17 going round killing others because we are not teaching them the fundamental morals and have adults acting like idots hanging effergies out of the window?? .....two words - GROW UP


well said, and Enoch Powell predicted it all on 20 April 1968....

now if only HE had been PM



> In 15 or 20 years, on present trends, there will be in this country three and a half million Commonwealth immigrants and their descendants. That is not my figure. That is the official figure given to parliament by the spokesman of the Registrar General's Office.
> 
> There is no comparable official figure for the year 2000, but it must be in the region of five to seven million, approximately one-tenth of the whole population, and approaching that of Greater London. Of course, it will not be evenly distributed from Margate to Aberystwyth and from Penzance to Aberdeen. *Whole areas, towns and parts of towns across England will be occupied by sections of the immigrant and immigrant-descended population.*
> 
> As time goes on, the proportion of this total who are immigrant descendants, those born in England, who arrived here by exactly the same route as the rest of us, will rapidly increase. Already by 1985 the native-born would constitute the majority. It is this fact which creates the extreme urgency of action now, of just that kind of action which is hardest for politicians to take, action where the difficulties lie in the present but the evils to be prevented or minimised lie several parliaments ahead.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Willylee said:


> Like or loathe Baroness Thatcher, one thing is for certain, she would be tickled pink, giggling in her whisky at all of those people who protest. That is what she stood for, change, freedom including the right to protest.
> Sadly for those people, put them to the test on a debating floor she would handbag the lot, individually or collectively as a good discussion based on truth, fact and honestly put her in No10 on three occasions.
> Sure, she errored, but compared to the politicians of late, she was a saint!!
> The manner of such protestations, recently exhibited, well I believe beggars belief and I will sleep tonighted thanking my God, those people are not in power and never will be.
> ...


*lol i watched it, and have to say the BBC were hypocrites. I noticed something wrong with the horses before it was announced. But having seen what was being televised, i didn't know why. I DID see a bunch of yellow flowers being thrown, but that was it.
BUT! the commentator, stated something was thrown at the horses.
How on gods earth can anyone say what was thrown and at who?Propaganda at its best, goes to BBC who we pay for bullsh*t.*


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> well said, and Enoch Powell predicted it all on 20 April 1968....
> 
> now if only HE had been PM


I really do enjoy watching a bigot shoot himself in the foot...have you got any feet left to shove in your gob?


----------



## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol i watched it, and have to say the BBC were hypocrites. I noticed something wrong with the horses before it was announced. But having seen what was being televised, i didn't know why. I DID see a bunch of yellow flowers being thrown, but that was it.
> BUT! the commentator, stated something was thrown at the horses.
> How on gods earth can anyone say what was thrown and at who?Propaganda at its best, goes to BBC who we pay for bullsh*t.*


A protester threw a bottle at one of the gun carriage horses. There is video of it.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> A protester threw a bottle at one of the gun carriage horses. There is video of it.


So potentially could have caused carnage
Those of you who do think this type of behaviour (and I don't think there are many on PF thank GOD) is acceptable need to take a long hard look at yourselves!

And to elaborate, those who are sat silently, waiting, hoping!!! what a fine example of the human race you are!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> A protester threw a bottle at one of the gun carriage horses. There is video of it.


*Firstly can you back this up? Secondly where is the footage? I watched the WHOLE thing and didn't see this. Could that have been because i was watching on BBC, you know, the channel we PAY for.*


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Firstly can you back this up? Secondly where is the footage? I watched the WHOLE thing and didn't see this. Could that have been because i was watching on BBC, you know, the channel we PAY for.*


the world news can back it up 

Nigeria News - Thatcher funeral: Demonstrators pretending to be mourners plan to disrupt funeral by blowing horns and turning their back as the cortege passes

Thatcher funeral: Demonstrators pretending to be mourners plan to disrupt funeral by blowing horns and turning their back as the cortege passes | Mail Online

Britain's Iron Lady laid to rest with full pomp

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

*http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ral-blowing-horns-turning-cortege-passes.html*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Firstly can you back this up? Secondly where is the footage? I watched the WHOLE thing and didn't see this. Could that have been because i was watching on BBC, you know, the channel we PAY for.*


Just a quicky as I'm sain the car waiting for my son's piano lesson to finish, I'll come back to the other posts I've missed later however...

Express states (along with many other newspapers, international and national tv stations - Google it) that the ONLY missiles thrown were flowers!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> the world news can back it up
> 
> Nigeria News - Thatcher funeral: Demonstrators pretending to be mourners plan to disrupt funeral by blowing horns and turning their back as the cortege passes
> 
> ...


Erro noggin

In fairness the horses seemed spooked prior to the bottle landing amongst them! But that was a stupid thing to do, I hope that they can pick up the culprit on the cameras and take action


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Sadly just another example of that negative emotion, hate. That protestor threw a bottle at one of the gun carriage horses, why? Why would anyone take satisfaction in doing that?

We are human. Not governed by instinct. We can make choices. When we hate it's because we have chosen to. We can choose not to hate. We can think of the damage hate does. Hate doesn't achieve anything, it's non productive, it takes up too much energy. Hate makes us bitter and twisted and damages us. Our children are affected by our hate even if we try to protect them from it.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Just a quicky as I'm sain the car waiting for my son's piano lesson to finish, I'll come back to the other posts I've missed later however...
> 
> Express states (along with many other newspapers, international and national tv stations - Google it) that the ONLY missiles thrown were flowers!


I just sat and watched a bottle being thrown at the horses,
That's assuming of course someone has not messed with the clip


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

DT said:


> Erro noggin
> 
> In fairness the horses seemed spooked prior to the bottle landing amongst them! But that was a stupid thing to do, I hope that they can pick up the culprit on the cameras and take action


Maybe so, but its a dogs act to aim for the innocent, throwing a bottle, proves what... that they are a piece of shite..


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> I just sat and watched a bottle being thrown at the horses,
> That's assuming of course someone has not messed with the clip


I haven't watched the video yet, and i too will be furious if thats the case. 
Will be watching when i get home.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> Maybe so, but its a dogs act to aim for the innocent, throwing a bottle, proves what... that they are a piece of shite..


Been dragged up by their scummy parents, or are scummy parents!
one or the other


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

myshkin said:


> I really do enjoy watching a bigot shoot himself in the foot...have you got any feet left to shove in your gob?


ive big feet thanks

the UK would be great if all our borders had been closed to incomers in the 1960's, no-one from Uganda, Jaimaca, Poland, Bulgaria and - coming soon - Rumania

Everyone bleats about but no-one like the facts

Enoch was 100%, rock solid, guaranteed right


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Looked nothing like a bottle. It did however look _very much_ like a bouquet of flowers. Funny that!


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Tinder said:


> Looked nothing like a bottle. It did however look _very much_ like a bouquet of flowers. Funny that!


It was a milk bottle. Unless you have a link proving otherwise? lol will add you can hear it smash.. and dont flowers have colour?  The horse that was hit reacted in pain, funny that.. flowers are soft.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

DT said:


> Been dragged up by their scummy parents, or are scummy parents!
> one or the other


thats not ALWAYS the case though is it

Pink Floyd guitarist's son Charlie Gilmour jailed for drug-fuelled rampage - Telegraph


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Tinder said:


> Looked nothing like a bottle. It did however look _very much_ like a bouquet of flowers. Funny that!


The eyes can do very funny things, moved to fast to be a bunch of flowers though (heavy if you know what I mean) but them I couldn't swear it were a bottle either.


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> It was a milk bottle. Unless you have a link proving otherwise? lol


In the links you posted...the Mail video...it looked like it was about 18" long, long cone shaped and wrapped in paper! Is that what your milk comes like?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> thats not ALWAYS the case though is it
> 
> Pink Floyd guitarist's son Charlie Gilmour jailed for drug-fuelled rampage - Telegraph


I don't dispute that for one moment! just like to contradict myself once in a while Keeps you folk on your toes, Why earlier I even said (in response to Maggie going out to work) that even parents who stayed home all day had children who turned out wrong


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Tinder said:


> In the links you posted...the Mail video...it looked like it was about 18" long, long cone shaped and wrapped in paper! Is that what your milk comes like?


So you think its a conspiracy do you? that protesters cant possibly have thrown a bottle? Theres many links online saying it was so, Im sure with the crowd that big and loads of journalists, at least one of them would have said it was flowers.. if it were... UK may wanna cover it, but other nations dgaf, so why would they lie too?


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## Willylee (Mar 21, 2013)

Damned if you do.
Damned if you don't.

The Beeb advertised the televising of the funeral of Baroness Thatcher.

I watched it, all of it, except for a coffee or two and I thought they did a good job. 

They did what it said on the tin!!!!

No doubt I will be corrected, cynically criticised possibly but had the advertisement read the televising of protesters at the funeral of Baroness Thatcher I would have scratched my head and had second thoughts as to what my licence fee was supporting.

I, like many others wanted, I have no doubt, to relax and enjoy what the Brits do best, pageantry, pomp, appreciation of service and all that entails.

IT WASN'T A NEWS PROGRAMME!!!


Dimbleby Jnr was dignified, well researched and contributed professionally to the programme, in sharp contrast to the amateurish mish mash of the Jubilee.

There will be many other opportunities to goggle at the protesters, I for one am simply not interested in watching such protestations whether silent or roudy. No I haven't a closed mind, far from it, but those protests would achieve nothing, nothing, nothing and as such I would prefer not to watch such demonstrations that would spoil, indeed ruin the mood of such a solemn, yet splendid occasion. The Beeb, I will raise a glass to you this evening when I slaute the lady. An excellent tv production.

The majority put Margaret in power on three occasions and I beleive the Beeb catered for the majority today.

Thought for the day.
Which Prime Minister closed more pits and placed more miners out of work?
Please, I plead, do not answer with a question.

There really is little need for bitterness, the taste lingers far longer than sugar.

Willylee


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

DT said:


> The eyes can do very funny things, moved to fast to be a bunch of flowers though (heavy if you know what I mean) but them I couldn't swear it were a bottle either.





Waterlily said:


> It was a milk bottle. Unless you have a link proving otherwise? lol will add you can hear it smash.. and dont flowers have colour?  The horse that was hit reacted in pain, funny that.. flowers are soft.


I must be deaf then. heard nothing that sounded like a milk bottle smash. 
And big bunches of flowers _can_ be very heavy and would fly like a missile if thrown with force due to their shape - long, triangular shaped, pointy, arrow / spear - like...


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

I mean.. they have been soo peaceful leading up to it, of course they would just toss a flower on the day 

Charity shop smashed as hundreds 'celebrated' death of Margaret Thatcher - Telegraph


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> It was a milk bottle. Unless you have a link proving otherwise? lol will add you can hear it smash.. and dont flowers have colour?  The horse that was hit reacted in pain, funny that.. flowers are soft.


Oh and white flowers don't have any colour, no. Except white. 
The horse that "reacted in pain" was going doolally over something before the missile was thrown so was obviously spooked anyway.



Waterlily said:


> So you think its a conspiracy do you? that protesters cant possibly have thrown a bottle? Theres many links online saying it was so, Im sure with the crowd that big and loads of journalists, at least one of them would have said it was flowers.. if it were... UK may wanna cover it, but other nations dgaf, so why would they lie too?


Show me the links where eyewitnesses are saying they saw a bottle being thrown and I'll wade through them later when I've got time ...and depending on who they are I'll decide whether I believe them or not...


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Tinder said:


> Oh and white flowers don't have any colour, no. Except white.
> The horse that "reacted in pain" was going doolally over something before the missile was thrown so was obviously spooked anyway.
> 
> Show me the links where eyewitnesses are saying they saw a bottle being thrown and I'll wade through them later when I've got time ...and depending on who they are I'll decide whether I believe them or not...


To be fair,,, its your turn for a link  I posted mine.. you need to counteract it


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> the UK would be great if all our borders had been closed to incomers in the 1960's, no-one from Uganda, Jaimaca, Poland, Bulgaria and - coming soon - Rumania


Yep UK would have been better with just the beaker people and no immigration. Oh wait, that would discount probably everybody who views themselves as British.


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Well with me having to bath my little un in a minute and with you saying "theres many links online" I thought it would be quicker for you to show me them as you already know where they are having seen them presumably?


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Tinder said:


> Well with me having to bath my little un in a minute and with you saying "theres many links online" I thought it would be quicker for you to show me them as you already know where they are having seen them presumably?


Only ones Ive seen (yup I looked) are that it was a bottle :shrug: ... so thats what Im believing.. for now lol


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Tinder said:


> Well with me having to bath my little un in a minute and with you saying "theres many links online" I thought it would be quicker for you to show me them as you already know where they are having seen them presumably?


Yep waterlily posted em, thought you had seen em too as you concluded it could have been flowers?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> Only ones Ive seen (yup I looked) are that it was a bottle :shrug: ... so thats what Im believing.. for now lol


I sez what she sez


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

DT said:


> Yep waterlily posted em, thought you had seen em too as you concluded it could have been flowers?


I concluded it was a bunch of flowers from watching the video in one of the links not from reading anyone else's views of what it was.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Willylee said:


> Like or loathe Baroness Thatcher, one thing is for certain, she would be tickled pink, giggling in her whisky at all of those people who protest. That is what she stood for, change, freedom including the right to protest.


Sorry - only got this far and almost choked on my tea. If there is one politician who most definitely did *not* believe in the right to protest it was Thatcher. She passed legislation to stop solidarity strikes, used the met to stop food parcels reaching miners on strike and used the police to attack striking miners at several locations - notably Orgreave. (A strike is a form of protest)



Willylee said:


> She will undoubtedly rest in peace, unlike the protesters.
> Willylee


Why do you think anyone who protests against something does not have the right to rest in peace?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Tinder said:


> I concluded it was a bunch of flowers from watching the video in one of the links not from reading anyone else's views of what it was.


That's what I said!


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Tinder said:


> Looked nothing like a bottle. It did however look _very much_ like a bouquet of flowers. Funny that!


No......surely you can't be suggesting the Fail could have made it up?

Who would have thought they'd be capable of a thing like that?


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

myshkin said:


> No......surely you can't be suggesting the Fail could have made it up?
> 
> Who would have thought they'd be capable of a thing like that?


There are more sites then just the "fail" Im yet to see a counter site saying it wasnt true..No surprise that only one link is noticed lol. Maybe people dont wanna admit, that some crossed the line.


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Sorry DT didn't realise Waterlily could possibly be offering those links as "proof"

Most were articles saying protesters "planned" to disrupt the funeral with such antics as milk throwing... ie. written before the funeral...and the only one that actually had a video of the incident was from Mail Online...nuff said!
Sorry if I've missed anything...i have skimmed through quickly...but those links prove jack $hit. 
Now!..off to bath my daughter...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Fact of the matter is, ten million is a lot of money!
But seems whichever government is in they all seem to have one thing in common, they ALL like to spend it!

51 million pounds a day to be a member 0f the EU
19 millions pounds a month going to eastern europeon countries per month for children NOT living here! I begrudge this money being spent but I don't going around making it difficult for others

And on different subject they having parties tonight is shirebrook to celebrate her death, I may pay a visit home!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> No......surely you can't be suggesting the Fail could have made it up?
> 
> Who would have thought they'd be capable of a thing like that?


Have you seen it


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

To be fair, who gives a toss whether it was flowers, bottles or whatever thrown at the horses, upshot of it is, nothing should of been thrown at anyone!! Anything thrown has the potential to cause danger.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Goblin said:


> Yep UK would have been better with just the beaker people and no immigration. Oh wait, that would discount probably everybody who views themselves as British.


I said 1960 ....

im well aware of the previous migrants but in most cases they INVADED us


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Tinder said:


> Sorry DT didn't realise Waterlily could possibly be offering those links as "proof"
> 
> Most were articles saying protesters "planned" to disrupt the funeral with such antics as milk throwing... ie. written before the funeral...and the only one that actually had a video of the incident was from Mail Online...nuff said!
> Sorry if I've missed anything...i have skimmed through quickly...but those links prove jack $hit.
> Now!..off to bath my daughter...


Jan wanted a link, so I posted it... I dont know your local news sites reputations, Im not from there, so what im seeing is as far as Im concerned.. news.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MissShelley said:


> To be fair, who gives a toss whether it was flowers, bottles or whatever thrown at the horses, upshot of it is, nothing should of been thrown at anyone!! Anything thrown has the potential to cause danger.


My thoughts exactly!
And just a reminder like, but some of the pits were losing money!


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Tinder said:


> Looked nothing like a bottle. It did however look _very much_ like a bouquet of flowers. Funny that!





Waterlily said:


> It was a milk bottle. Unless you have a link proving otherwise? lol will add you can hear it smash.. and dont flowers have colour?  The horse that was hit reacted in pain, funny that.. flowers are soft.


Which video are we talking about? Has anyone a link? Can anyone post a link? If anyone can it should be fairly easy for us all to see what (if anything) was thrown


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Spellweaver said:


> Which video are we talking about? Has anyone a link? Can anyone post a link? If anyone can it should be fairly easy for us all to see what (if anything) was thrown


Thatcher funeral: Demonstrators pretending to be mourners plan to disrupt funeral by blowing horns and turning their back as the cortege passes | Mail Online

cant really say nothing was thrown, regardless of their "reputation"


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> Jan wanted a link, so I posted it... I dont know your local news sites reputations, Im not from there, so what im seeing is as far as Im concerned.. news.


Don't worry about it WL and you certainly DONT have to explain yourself as to WHY you posted it!
But whilst on the point if that particular publication, its *ODD* how some seem to find it a 'reliable' scource, WHEN it suits them!
there's note so strange as folk!:devil:


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

DT said:


> Don't worry about it WL and you certainly DONT have to explain yourself as to WHY you posted it!
> But whilst on the point if that particular publication, its *ODD* how some seem to find it a 'reliable' scource, WHEN it suits them!
> there's note so strange as folk!:devil:


yeh.. funny Ive noticed that too... the daily mail is used for many threads here.... go figure tho when its one they dont want to believe.. cos dammit how can someone be that aggressive ?


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Waterlily said:


> There are more sites then just the "fail" Im yet to see a counter site saying it wasnt true..No surprise that only one link is noticed lol. Maybe people dont wanna admit, that some crossed the line.


The only site I could find a video or any image of the alleged incident was the Fail - it's really not very convincing! This is how it looks to me :



Tinder said:


> Sorry DT didn't realise Waterlily could possibly be offering those links as "proof"
> 
> Most were articles saying protesters "planned" to disrupt the funeral with such antics as milk throwing... ie. written before the funeral...and the only one that actually had a video of the incident was from Mail Online...nuff said!
> Sorry if I've missed anything...i have skimmed through quickly...but those links prove jack $hit.
> Now!..off to bath my daughter...





DT said:


> Have you seen it


Yes. It's a blurry image that looked more like flowers than a bottle, and made no difference to the already spooked horse.

And if it was flowers, they would have been thrown by those who turned up to support Thatcher - will we have howls of outrage at such people throwing things at an already spooked horse? Could have caused carnage!


----------



## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Tinder said:


> Sorry DT didn't realise Waterlily could possibly be offering those links as "proof"
> 
> Most were articles saying protesters "planned" to disrupt the funeral with such antics as milk throwing... ie. written before the funeral...and the only one that actually had a video of the incident was from Mail Online...nuff said!
> Sorry if I've missed anything...i have skimmed through quickly...but those links prove jack $hit.
> Now!..off to bath my daughter...


The incident (the bottle throwing) was shown live on the Sky News coverage of the funeral.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> The only site I could find a video or any image of the alleged incident was the Fail - it's really not very convincing! This is how it looks to me :
> 
> Yes. It's a blurry image that looked more like flowers than a bottle, and made no difference to the already spooked horse.
> 
> And if it was flowers, they would have been thrown by those who turned up to support Thatcher - will we have howls of outrage at such people throwing things at an already spooked horse? Could have caused carnage!


I said the horses already appeared spooked in my post above, And I too cannot be certain of what was actually thrown, but just didn't look like flowers to me. Carnage Shudder the thought don't get too complacent, I'll be back soon:devil:


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Knightofalbion said:


> The incident (the bottle throwing) was shown live on the Sky News coverage of the funeral.


And has it been confirmed as a bottle

It actually looked like a plastic water bottle to me


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> The only site I could find a video or any image of the alleged incident was the Fail - it's really not very convincing! This is how it looks to me :
> 
> Yes. It's a blurry image that looked more like flowers than a bottle, and made no difference to the already spooked horse.
> 
> And if it was flowers, they would have been thrown by those who turned up to support Thatcher - will we have howls of outrage at such people throwing things at an already spooked horse? Could have caused carnage!


ps!
forgot to say, specsavers have appointments available for tomorrow


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Waterlily said:


> Thatcher funeral: Demonstrators pretending to be mourners plan to disrupt funeral by blowing horns and turning their back as the cortege passes | Mail Online
> 
> cant really say nothing was thrown, regardless of their "reputation"


Thanks hun. I can't say what was thrown - I don't agree with throwing things at horses at all, but have to say that they seemed spooked before it was thrown and whatever the missile was it fell behind them.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Waterlily said:


> yeh.. funny Ive noticed that too... *the daily mail is used for many threads here*.... go figure tho when its one they dont want to believe.. cos dammit how can someone be that aggressive ?


Not by me, WL, ever.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Thanks hun. I can't say what was thrown - I don't agree with throwing things at horses at all, but have to say that they seemed spooked before it was thrown and whatever the missile was it fell behind them.


The thing was val it looked to me like two of the horses were spooked! It only needed one to bolt after the missile hit, and the others to panic and we could have been reading of fatalities now!
As you say, there is NO excuse
And It fell to the side on my screen


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## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

Spellweaver said:


> Thanks hun. I can't say what was thrown - I don't agree with throwing things at horses at all, but have to say that they seemed spooked before it was thrown and whatever the missile was it fell behind them.


yeh I know that, that was said already  spooked or not, doesnt change the fact someone targeted the horses.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Not by me, WL, ever.


:dita: :dita: :dita:

well all the reporters piss in the same pot!
its just a race as to who does it first


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Well lets see, she was know as the "Milk Snatcher" there had been reports that protesters where planning to throw milk bottles... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm lets see now I wonder what the chances of someone throwing a milk bottle would be... 

And they would have to be bloody lead weighted flowers to go that far


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Well lets see, she was know as the "Milk Snatcher" there had been reports that protesters where planning to throw milk bottles... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm lets see now I wonder what the chances of someone throwing a milk bottle would be...
> 
> And they would have to be bloody lead weighted flowers to go that far


I said that too!
But some folks wear rose coloured spectacles so we have to make allowances


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Meezey said:


> Well lets see, she was know as the "Milk Snatcher" there had been reports that protesters where planning to throw milk bottles... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm lets see now I wonder what the chances of someone throwing a milk bottle would be...
> 
> And they would have to be bloody lead weighted flowers to go that far


water lily thought it were a milk bottle!
and I bet her eyes are good! they would need to be in the bush


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> well said, and Enoch Powell predicted it all on 20 April 1968....
> 
> now if only HE had been PM


i certainly dont agree with your narrowminded views on this subject ....


----------



## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I think the protesters are sick individuals... some of those banners have totally disgusted me... What a sad society we live in if that is how people believe it is appropriate to behave :nonod: And throwing things at the horses! That really made me mad 

Although, I did have to laugh earlier on... On FB there was a post being shared about the way people have been behaving at the funeral etc, and there was a pic with her grandchildren in it. Some people posted saying things like 'oh look even her grandkids aren't sad she's dead' and other similar things because they looked quite happy in the pic... what the morons didn't realise was that it was Maggie standing behind them in the pic :lol: So either it was her ghost or the pic was before she died


----------



## Willylee (Mar 21, 2013)

Originally Posted by Willylee 
Like or loathe Baroness Thatcher, one thing is for certain, she would be tickled pink, giggling in her whisky at all of those people who protest. That is what she stood for, change, freedom including the right to protest. 

Sorry - only got this far and almost choked on my tea. If there is one politician who most definitely did not believe in the right to protest it was Thatcher. She passed legislation to stop solidarity strikes, used the met to stop food parcels reaching miners on strike and used the police to attack striking miners at several locations - notably Orgreave. (A strike is a form of protest)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Willylee 
She will undoubtedly rest in peace, unlike the protesters.
Willylee 

Why do you think anyone who protests against something does not have the right to rest in peace?


............................................................................................


Looking at the picture from a global prospectus, the Lady supported freedom, that to include freedom of speech and peaceful protest what this mustn't be confused with is the right to define anarchy as protest.

You are right of course, resting in peace is available to everyone. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I hope you didn't scald yourself.

I am not a supporter of Baroness Thatcher specifically, but as I've said previously, like or loathe the lady, compared to the present government at least she was capable of decision making, such was her qualities, the country supported her, three times.

Surely we, the voting public can't be wrong three times on the trot?

Perhaps the voting system is flawed? Now there's a get out clause.

Willylee


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

ok have watched the clip, I cant tell what was thrown.

However found this:
Thatcher funeral: No arrests during procession as funeral passes off peacefully and 'good riddance' protesters are drowned out | Mail Online



> The Met police has confirmed that the only items thrown at the coffin as it passed through central London earlier were flowers, and that no arrests have been made.


and here

Hundreds of protesters turn backs on Margaret Thatcher's coffin | Politics | guardian.co.uk


> "Police also received reports of items being thrown towards the funeral cortege, however we can confirm that these were flowers."


I havent read back yet, will do so later when I have some more time there is alot of pages to get through!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Willylee said:


> Originally Posted by Willylee
> Like or loathe Baroness Thatcher, one thing is for certain, she would be tickled pink, giggling in her whisky at all of those people who protest. That is what she stood for, change, freedom including the right to protest.
> 
> Sorry - only got this far and almost choked on my tea. If there is one politician who most definitely did not believe in the right to protest it was Thatcher. She passed legislation to stop solidarity strikes, used the met to stop food parcels reaching miners on strike and used the police to attack striking miners at several locations - notably Orgreave. (A strike is a form of protest)
> ...


you forgot summat

the lady we are talking of had bigger balls then any of the muppets we are entrusting our future and our country to today!


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

oh and this from the daily fail



> The emotional crowds threw white roses in the path of the gun carriage that carried Lady Thatcher through the capital, while many of the 2,300 inside St Paul's openly sobbed with Chancellor George Osborne 'overwhelmed'.


Margaret Thatcher gets the send-off she deserved as hundreds of thousands line streets to applaud her coffin | Mail Online


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> ok have watched the clip, I cant tell what was thrown.
> 
> However found this:
> Thatcher funeral: No arrests during procession as funeral passes off peacefully and 'good riddance' protesters are drowned out | Mail Online
> ...


Oh dear its the daily mail again


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> oh and this from the daily fail
> 
> Margaret Thatcher gets the send-off she deserved as hundreds of thousands line streets to applaud her coffin | Mail Online


Well colour it whatever way you like! but the fact of the matter is her supporters outnumbered those against her and that's good enuff for me!

Don't suppose Maggie will be to rattled either
coz at the end of the day if the 'numbers' had represented votes she would have WON


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> Well colour it whatever way you like! but the fact of the matter is her supporters outnumbered those against her and that's good enuff for me!
> 
> Don't suppose Maggie will be to rattled either
> coz at the end of the day if the 'numbers' had represented votes she would have WON


lol has it become a race now?

More people agree with you so you must be right?

People voted hitler in, does that make em right?


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Oh its already been stated the voting system is flawed and she was elected three times by a minority vote 

Some of the posts on this thread seem to be people _wanting_ to see protests. These are the people saying the population has a right to peaceful protest. Yes, they do have that right, but its a bit different saying you agree to the right to protest, than being upset that you didnt actually _see_ any protests.

It makes me wonder if all the 'people have a right to protest' posts, actually were 'rubbing hands together can't wait to see the protests' posts.

It was being filmed live. If you didnt like the footage you saw on one channel, just turn over your TV and watch another channel, its not rocket science.

People arguing over what was thrown at the horses. The point is _something_ was thrown at the horses. In what world is that deemed acceptable? Does it matter if it was flowers or bottles? Ahhh, but the horses were already spooked so it didn't matter, so lets post the link and PF members can decide if anything thrown at all. It was in the Daily Mail, so it must be fake right?

I have to say I am ashamed of a lot of attitudes I have seen recently. You didn't like a politician who ruled decades ago, and she had kids so she brought all this hatred on them? No she didn't. The only people that brought hatred onto her family are the people that have behaved in such an appalling manner.

No wonder Philpotts son wants to change his name so he can't be targetted by mean and petty minded people who would blame _him_ for his parentage.










PS: The Mail used the same image, so its fake right?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> lol has it become a race now?
> 
> More people agree with you so you must be right?
> 
> ?


You know me so well:dita:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> No wonder Philpotts son wants to change his name so he can't be targetted by mean and petty minded people who would blame _him_ for his parentage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hilters family changed their names! do you know there is NOT one single family in the world today with the surname of Hitler!

On the other hand, I would be proud, very proud to be known as either Roberts or Thatcher


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Glad to see the old lady got a splended send-off...RIP now MT.

Glad filming crew didnt show much of the lowlife behaviour from protestors.

Some of the placards (seen on one of the links posted on here) were so juvenile...I actually feel embarassed for those holding them. Seriously..if youre going to make a point..put a little thought and effort into it.

As for the scum that threw WHATEVER it was at the horses....hope Karma bites them big time on their backside. Goodness knows what sort of prat would throw anything at horses like that


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

chichi said:


> Glad to see the old lady got a splended send-off...RIP now MT.
> 
> Glad filming crew didnt show much of the lowlife behaviour from protestors.
> 
> ...


Yay
you said it how I tried to, but seems when I say it I rattle cages
So gonna rep you for being so versitile


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

DT said:


> Yay
> you said it how I tried to, but seems when I say it I rattle cages
> So gonna rep you for being so versitile


Thanks DT 

A bit of cage rattling is good at times...


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Some of the posts on this thread seem to be people _wanting_ to see protests. These are the people saying the population has a right to peaceful protest. Yes, they do have that right, but its a bit different saying you agree to the right to protest, than being upset that you didnt actually _see_ any protests.


Agreed, I dont understand it. The protests were peaceful, there were no scraps, there have been no arrests in london due to the protests for either side of the coin. Cant we be proud that for the first time in a long time a high profile protest has been carried out peacefully? Those who want to pick fights stayed away from the service! Surely thats a GOOD thing?

The last thing I wanted to see (and its what I thought would happen) would be a repeat of the london riots, and I'm really pleased it didnt! That is a message far far more powerful to the rest of the world, that we can act like adults!



> It makes me wonder if all the 'people have a right to protest' posts, actually were 'rubbing hands together can't wait to see the protests' posts.


 Not sure about that, it seems that those who are against the right to protest are the ones disappointed that a riot didnt break out so they can all say "told you so".



> It was being filmed live. If you didnt like the footage you saw on one channel, just turn over your TV and watch another channel, its not rocket science.


Fair enough I suppose, but I expect more from the channel that every television watcher in the UK pays for! I have come to expect much more from the bbc, than this censorship.



> People arguing over what was thrown at the horses. The point is _something_ was thrown at the horses. In what world is that deemed acceptable? Does it matter if it was flowers or bottles? Ahhh, but the horses were already spooked so it didn't matter, so lets post the link and PF members can decide if anything thrown at all. It was in the Daily Mail, so it must be fake right?


 I have to agree with this. Whether it was a protestor and a bottle, or a mourner and flowers - something was thrown and it spooked the horses. It shouldnt have happened full stop.

Remember the police have stated it was FLOWERS!

Strangely though during dianas funeral lots of flowers and other love tokens were thrown, I dont remember there being an outcry then?



> I have to say I am ashamed of a lot of attitudes I have seen recently. You didn't like a politician who ruled decades ago, and she had kids so she brought all this hatred on them? No she didn't. The only people that brought hatred onto her family are the people that have behaved in such an appalling manner.
> 
> No wonder Philpotts son wants to change his name so he can't be targetted by mean and petty minded people who would blame _him_ for his parentage.
> 
> ...


I have never ever said I hated Maggies children/grandchildren/extended family. I have said that they will have been counselled as to what the possible outcomes would have been with a public ceremony. The discussions on the type of funeral and its possible outcomes were had during TB's reign, browns and camerons... I expect in the later discussions it was more with her family than Maggie herself considering her declining mental capacity at the time. Had they (or her) at any point wanted to avoid those who would protest they could have chosen a private funeral. As it is, they chose a full public ceremony and had their own private ceremonies (two of them). I do understand that there is a grieving family in all of this, there almost always is, and yet I dont remember you all jumping up and down at the funeral protests of the opposition leader in Tunisia, and nobody seems to remember the funeral protests which took place when Regan was buried. Public figures such as Thatcher will always cause division, its pointless to pretend otherwise. Why should only those who support her have their say and everyone else be silenced?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> .
> 
> Strangely though during dianas funeral lots of flowers and other love tokens were thrown, I dont remember there being an outcry then?
> 
> ...


Because there is a time and a place for everything! and today weren't the time!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Meezey said:


> Your not answering my question thought.. So you would be fine with people turning up at your families funeral with abusive placards. You seem to be missing the point also, SHE chose not her family, SHE chose to be PM not her family, why should her grand children be exposed to that kind of hate?
> 
> I just don't get how people can hold so much hate for so long? Life is too short...............


now that depends.... are they paying for my families funeral? 

Have my family destroyed lives or communities?... have they supported genocide?

Anyone has the right to peaceful protest, and if they felt that strongly that they wanted to attend my or my families funerals to protest... then so be it. For the close members of my family I have lost, I wouldnt have noticed, I was too wrapped up on my own grief to have noticed. When we buried my grandfather it was a party atmosphere and celebration, and yet I was still so wrapped up in my own feelings of loss they could have be doing the braveheart moon and I still wouldnt have noticed!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> now that depends.... are they paying for my families funeral?
> 
> Have my family destroyed lives or communities?... have they supported genocide?
> 
> Anyone has the right to peaceful protest, and if they felt that strongly that they wanted to attend my or my families funerals to protest... then so be it. For the close members of my family I have lost, I wouldnt have noticed, I was too wrapped up on my own grief to have noticed. When we buried my grandfather it was a party atmosphere and celebration, and yet I was still so wrapped up in my own feelings of loss they could have be doing the braveheart moon and I still wouldnt have noticed!


would you care to elaborate on the 'genocide
I recall you have already made allegations to tax evasion, to which I am still awaiting proof!
perhaps you ought to check out the word LIBEL


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

DT said:


> Because there is a time and a place for everything! and today weren't the time!


Agreed.

The only reason I think what is thrown makes a difference is this - if, as the police say, it was flowers, then _it wasn't a protester who threw them._

So it would seem that the protesters, who many people in the media appeared to be willing to behave badly, were better behaved, and showed more dignity than the "mourners".

Now get to specsavers yerself, you cheeky auld bint!


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> <snip> Why should only those who support her have their say and everyone else be silenced?


Sorry to snip your post, I agree with most of it.

That last question I wanted to answer from my own views.

I don't think _anyone_ should be silenced, and _everyone_ should have their say.

I don't think a funeral is the place to do it though.

Whoever it is that has died, still has a family, who will most likely be grieving.

The family left behind are there by circumstance. They didn't ask to be born into that family, they just were. Why should they have to suffer for something they had absolutely no control over?


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

DT said:


> would you care to elaborate on the 'genocide
> I recall you have already made allegations to tax evasion, to which I am still awaiting proof!
> perhaps you ought to check out the word LIBEL


The dead can't be libelled. It interferes with the history-making process.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

DT said:


> Because there is a time and a place for everything! and today weren't the time!


Exactly...there has been decades to hold their protests...and the rest of all time...yet they felt today was the day to make a point...at a funeral...traditionally a time to celebrate a persons life and send them on their way peacefully...for friends and family to remember the deceased and to pay their respects.

Sad really that some people will play to an audience no matter how inappropriate the occasion 


I wonder what may have happened if Police presence wasnt so prominent:001_unsure:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Agreed.
> 
> The only reason I think what is thrown makes a difference is this - if, as the police say, it was flowers, then _it wasn't a protester who threw them._
> 
> ...


I went today as it happens I joke you NOT (even stated so on an earlier thread that I was of to specsavers!
And sure whatever was thrown in will be identified tomorrow as there would be many there taking coverage on their mobiles


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> Why should only those who support her have their say and everyone else be silenced?


I don't remember anyone here or anywhere else saying that people who support her where the only ones who could have a say and other should be silenced, I just think it's despicable that that people think it's "ok" to protest at a funeral, at any funeral for that matter


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Hey! just a reminder!
I get scared easy
so dont pick on me


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Meezey said:


> I don't remember anyone here or anywhere else saying that people who support her where the only ones who could have a say and other should be silenced, I just think it's despicable that that people think it's "ok" to protest at a funeral, at any funeral for that matter


I say that too


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

some


chichi said:


> Exactly...there has been decades to hold their protests...and the rest of all time...yet they felt today was the day to make a point...at a funeral...traditionally a time to celebrate a persons life and send them on their way peacefully...for friends and family to remember the deceased and to pay their respects.
> 
> Sad really that some people will play to an audience no matter how inappropriate the occasion
> 
> ...


Personally I think that the pro thatchers way way way out numbered the protesters, and because of that they towed the line! just shows what a load of wet lettuces they were when push comes to shove!

BUT in villages and towns up and down the country some did demonstrate their grieveneces, I have no problem with those people! as it did not interfere with the celebrations of those who wanted to see her off in style!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> Because there is a time and a place for everything! and today weren't the time!


 In your opinion, which you are entitled to. I disagree with you.



DT said:


> would you care to elaborate on the 'genocide
> I recall you have already made allegations to tax evasion, to which I am still awaiting proof!
> perhaps you ought to check out the word LIBEL


Libel exists only to the living... however.

She supported the far right in guatemala, who committed genocide against those who supported the far left. She supported (and sent the SAS to train!) the Khmer rouge. I have already posted the links for this further back in the thread.



MCWillow said:


> Sorry to snip your post, I agree with most of it.
> 
> That last question I wanted to answer from my own views.
> 
> ...


I do appreciate that, however I still say you cannot silence those who are wanting to protest peacefully, regardless of the occasion. I 100% DETESTED the thought of the muslim march through wootton bassett (which despite rumour was NEVER to interrupt a repatriation), but I do appreciate they had the right to the protest. I know it means that the family may (if they were even of a frame of mind to notice on the day) may feel strongly that their mothers name is being besmirched again, but I still say its one of the unfortunate prices they as the innocent party have always had to pay for having Thatcher as a mother, another set of people Thatcher has hurt if you will.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Meezey said:


> I don't remember anyone here or anywhere else saying that people who support her where the only ones who could have a say and other should be silenced, I just think it's despicable that that people think it's "ok" to protest at a funeral, at any funeral for that matter


so for such a political figure its ok that only those who support her attend and clap and pretend to the world that everyone loved her?

no I dont think so - jmo!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> In your opinion, which you are entitled to. I disagree with you.
> 
> As is your right!
> 
> ...


Erm! now you really rattling my cage now!!
Wootton bassett, if you are going to protest against our soilders and repatriation - then sorry! but I cant say what I want to say! And I cannot NEVER EVER agree with anyone that says they had a RGHT to protest ! which you just have! I can therefore NO longer take you seriously!


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## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

I think it was handled very well - I thought there would have been loads of trouble.

RIP Baroness Thatcher, you did wonders for this country. 


I fail to see the need to hold protests about what she stood for now - it can't change anything, it just seems to pointless, and horrifically disrespectful to celebrate someones death...


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> so for such a political figure its ok that only those who support her attend and clap and pretend to the world that everyone loved her?
> 
> no I dont think so - jmo!


wakey wakey:dita:


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

DT said:


> Hey! just a reminder!
> I get scared easy
> so dont pick on me


:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Oh, I needed a laugh!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> :laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> Oh, I needed a laugh!


Im getting scurred
Will you look after me


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> <snip> I still say its one of the unfortunate prices they as the innocent party have always had to pay for having Thatcher as a mother, another set of people Thatcher has hurt if you will.


This snipping is getting to be habit 

In response, it wasn't MT that hurt them, it was the people trying to ruin her funeral that would have done that.

You can't blame MT for how other people behave. Every single person has the choice of how they will react and behave in any given situation. No-one has the power to _make_ you do something you don't want to do. **

MT was powerful, but she wasn't _that_ powerful 

** Obviously people that are thrratened at gunpoint etc etc would be an exception - just wanted to point that out before someone else does


----------



## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

I have to say all the moaning about the cost of the funeral really winds me up.

As an individual I don't get a say in how any other public money is spent; why do people think that they should have a say in this? There are lots of thing I disagree with but I don't feel the need to go and protest about it. 

I know that in the UK there are people who are provided with council housing and benefits when they are capable of work; should we locate these individuals and protest in the road outside their houses?!

When I think my local council has spent money on improving one set of footpaths instead of the ones I use should I go and protest at the site of the repairs?

If someone who is obese because of their own gluttony and laziness gets expensive survey on the NHS whilst others receive no treatment for a condition not of their making simply because the PCT will not fund it, then should I locate that overweight person and protest on their way in and out of hospital?

I heard chants of "waste of money" today. As these individuals are so concerned about spending money in the wrong places then perhaps instead of wasting their day protesting about something that had already happened, they could instead have volunteered for the day at a charity or done something else worthwhile to contribute to their local community as clearly they are so concerned about money not going to other more worthy causes. 

I wonder how many people protesting today should have spent their day looking for paid employment instead...


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Lel said:


> I have to say all the moaning about the cost of the funeral really winds me up.
> 
> As an individual I don't get a say in how any other public money is spent; why do people think that they should have a say in this? There are lots of thing I disagree with but I don't feel the need to go and protest about it.
> 
> ...


Yay yay yay


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> would you care to elaborate on the 'genocide
> I recall you have already made allegations to tax evasion, to which I am still awaiting proof!
> perhaps you ought to check out the word LIBEL


I did say I used the wrong word with evasion, and it was avoidance... still stand by it.

Her multi million pound property is now owned by a po box company linked with her in the virgin islands/channel islands and leichtenstein. Its not hard to find, google it.... heres one to get you started! Margaret Thatcher the tax snatcher? Mystery of her £6m house with links to THREE tax havens - Mirror Online

She must  have the same accountant as Jimmy Carr.

Oh and yes I may well put in a freedom of information act request over the expenditure of the funeral too!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Right!
The gloves are off
coming ready or not


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> so for such a political figure its ok that only those who support her attend and clap and pretend to the world that everyone loved her?
> 
> no I dont think so - jmo!


It's a funeral............................................. Do you turn up at people funerals you don't like and shout abuse?

Political figure or not. They are DEAD, what does anyone hope to achieve by protesting at a funeral apart from making themselves look bitter and twisted?

It's hardly like people don't KNOW already that MT wasn't liked, it's hardly like the world is going to sit back and think " wowwww well bugger me with a fish fork I didn't know people didn't like Old Maggie" or " wow did she really steal children's milk?" after watching people singing and dancing with bitter twisted placards now there was not a lot of the hardly a big secret was it.. It was self gratifying for those who went and made an arse out of themselves partying at a funeral....... jmo...


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Lel said:


> I have to say all the moaning about the cost of the funeral really winds me up.
> 
> As an individual I don't get a say in how any other public money is spent; why do people think that they should have a say in this? There are lots of thing I disagree with but I don't feel the need to go and protest about it.
> 
> ...


Because....

Had it been a state funeral (with almost exactly the same pomp and ceremony as todays affair), it would have had to been subject to open parlimentary debate and approval. As it was all cameron had to do was give the nod, as SHE requested a ceremonial funeral, and not a state one to avoid the debate (and possible denial).


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> I did say I used the wrong word with evasion, and it was avoidance... still stand by it.
> 
> Her multi million pound property is now owned by a po box company linked with her in the virgin islands/channel islands and leichtenstein. Its not hard to find, google it.... heres one to get you started! Margaret Thatcher the tax snatcher? Mystery of her £6m house with links to THREE tax havens - Mirror Online
> 
> ...


Evasion and avoidance have two entirely different meanings!
one is legal! the other is NOT!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Meezey said:


> It's a funeral............................................. Do you turn up at people funerals you don't like and shout abuse?
> 
> Political figure or not. They are DEAD, what does anyone hope to achieve by protesting at a funeral apart from making themselves look bitter and twisted?
> 
> It's hardly like people don't KNOW already that MT wasn't liked, it's hardly like the world is going to sit back and think " wowwww well bugger me with a fish fork I didn't know people didn't like Old Maggie" or " wow did she really steal children's milk?" after watching people singing and dancing with bitter twisted placards now there was not a lot of the hardly a big secret was it.. It was self gratifying for those who went and made an arse out of themselves partying at a funeral....... jmo...


I didnt attend this one either?

However that doesnt mean I wont defend anyone the RIGHT to do so! Regardless of your views, I am very very pleased we have the right to peaceful protest!

Listening to some of the Yank tourists talking recently, they were shocked to the core that anyone couldnt love the iron lady!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> I did say I used the wrong word with evasion, and it was avoidance... still stand by it.
> 
> Her multi million pound property is now owned by a po box company linked with her in the virgin islands/channel islands and leichtenstein. Its not hard to find, google it.... heres one to get you started! Margaret Thatcher the tax snatcher? Mystery of her £6m house with links to THREE tax havens - Mirror Online
> 
> ...


As for the freedom of information, that data, I am sure will be available!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> Evasion and avoidance have two entirely different meanings!
> one is legal! the other is NOT!


Jesus - read woman, already been through this! I used the wrong word, apologised and corrected it!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Listening to some of the Yank tourists talking recently, they were shocked to the core that anyone couldnt love the iron lady!


You must have been talking to some real odd yanks
Where were you San Quintin?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Jesus - read woman, already been through this! I used the wrong word, apologised and corrected it!


Dunno what Jesus has to do with it!
if push comes to shove you'll just have to rely on the judge being an anti


----------



## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> so for such a political figure its ok that only those who support her attend and clap and pretend to the world that everyone loved her?


I really think you are missing the point. A funeral is a place to pay your last respects. If you do not want to do so then you do not go to the funeral.

A funeral is not the place to revel in someone's death nor protest about the money spent on the send off.

Those who attended to pay their respects should have been able to do so without booing, placard waving or things being thrown at the procession.

Why does it matter whether anyone thinks "everyone loved her"? This was her funeral. At any funeral you would expect to see people close to the deceased who are upset by their passing. You would not expect to see people attend any other funeral who weren't saddened by their passing. Why does there need to be a display of those who didn't like her/disagreed with her?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Lel said:


> I really think you are missing the point. A funeral is a place to pay your last respects. If you do not want to do so then you do not go to the funeral.
> 
> A funeral is not the place to revel in someone's death nor protest about the money spent on the send off.
> 
> ...


I asked for a hammer and chisel three pages back
also could do with a drill!
That way we might, just might!! get through:dita:


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> I do appreciate that, however I still say you cannot silence those who are wanting to protest peacefully, regardless of the occasion. I 100% DETESTED the thought of the muslim march through wootton bassett (which despite rumour was NEVER to interrupt a repatriation), but I do appreciate they had the right to the protest.


Dude seriously you need to recheck your moral guidance counter, because there is NO right to protest there, none.......................


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Lel said:


> I really think you are missing the point. A funeral is a place to pay your last respects. If you do not want to do so then you do not go to the funeral.
> 
> A funeral is not the place to revel in someone's death nor protest about the money spent on the send off.
> 
> ...


I and others have answered this over and over and over and over again in this and other threads. I really cannot be bothered to do so again... yawn.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Blinking heck!
never given out so much rep in my life


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Meezey said:


> Dude seriously you need to recheck your moral guidance counter, because there is NO right to protest there, none.......................


Where did I say I agreed with it? Where?

But yes, legally they had a right to protest. I may not agree with it, but they do legally have the right to protest. Just because I dislike it, just because you dislike it doesnt mean they cannot have the right to peaceful protest.

I have attended many of the repatriations, and am honoured to have done so, a small but fitting tribute to those men who died doing their jobs for our country.

Read back through the thread, this has already been covered too.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> I and others have answered this over and over and over and over again in this and other threads. I really cannot be bothered to do so again... yawn.


Ovaltine
a good nights sleep might bring you to your senses


----------



## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> Because....
> 
> Had it been a state funeral (with almost exactly the same pomp and ceremony as todays affair), it would have had to been subject to open parlimentary debate and approval. As it was all cameron had to do was give the nod, as SHE requested a ceremonial funeral, and not a state one to avoid the debate (and possible denial).


But so what? Our government make decisions all the time that lots of people disagree with. If the issue is with Cameron "giving the nod" then the protest should be at Cameron's door, not her funeral.

And even if it had been a state funeral that she requested do you really think that a grand scale public funeral would not have taken place.


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

Lel said:


> I really think you are missing the point. A funeral is a place to pay your last respects. If you do not want to do so then you do not go to the funeral.
> 
> A funeral is not the place to revel in someone's death nor protest about the money spent on the send off.
> 
> ...


Eloquently put. Thank you.


----------



## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

JAChihuahua said:


> I and others have answered this over and over and over and over again in this and other threads. I really cannot be bothered to do so again... yawn.


Well if the subject bored you that much you would have left this debate days ago


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

I understood that any serving PM that did so whilst at war were entitled to a state funeral!
Did I get that wrong?


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Lel said:


> Well if the subject bored you that much you would have left this debate days ago


They bluffing:devil:
Trying to catch us off guard


----------



## Guest (Apr 17, 2013)

More importantly...does anyone know if the spinning pot noodle fork #1 son won will come with batterys, or will i need to buy him some?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

jon bda said:


> More importantly...does anyone know if the spinning pot noodle fork #1 son won will come with batterys, or will i need to buy him some?


You scratch my back jon bda and I'll scratch yours 
aint that how this works


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Lel said:


> Well if the subject bored you that much you would have left this debate days ago


What i THINK she meant was....

READ THE THREAD!!!!


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Because....
> 
> Had it been a state funeral (with almost exactly the same pomp and ceremony as todays affair), it would have had to been subject to open parlimentary debate and approval. *As it was all cameron had to do was give the nod*, as SHE requested a ceremonial funeral, and not a state one to avoid the debate (and possible denial).


Not quite as simple as that - the Queen had to approve it.


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

myshkin said:


> The dead can't be libelled. It interferes with the history-making process.





JAChihuahua said:


> Libel exists only to the living... however.


I think if the libel claims against the dead affect the living, e.g. The family then they can pursue claim.


----------



## Willylee (Mar 21, 2013)

There is talk of the funeral costs being circa £10.000,000

Anyone out there with an idea as to how this sum has been calculated?

Does that figure include vat? If so one sixth goes back to the treasury.
Salaries for the armed forces/police are all taxable, roughly one third goes back to the treasury.
Cost of transporting personnel, fuel costs are heavily taxed all of which goes...........
All the armed forces personnel would be paid whether or not they were at the funeral as would the police.....except perhaps for overtime.

Include in to this equation the revenue generated by tourism...tube...hotels...flights...trains...buses...restaurants...

There is a huge difference between what we are told it would cost and what the net figure actually amounts to from the public purse.

Many years ago a yacht overturned in the oceans around Australia I believe and I remember a huge figure being quoted for the rescue of the folk on board as it would take a military craft a couple of days to reach the stricken vessel. 
It hit the papers and the knee jerkers screamed at the cost "to the taxpayer"
The captain of the military vessel killed it, the yelling that is, on the basis that he was on manoevres anyhow and it was an "oncost" that would only vary marginally by the use of a little more fuel, while giving the crew a real live exercise.
The principal of saving a life was lost in the knee jerk argument, none of which had any real merit.

Would the cost of the funeral be reduced if the threat of protest had been removed......I seem to think so. The cost of addressing the threat by protesters is computed into the figure quoted.
Peaceful protests can be managed with minimal police cover. Not so peaceful protests mean a squad with riot shields....you get the picture....have to be available.....and paid for.

I'll wager Baroness Thatcher, sat on her cloud, handbagging St Peter and calling to Dennis for another whisky is laughing her cotton socks off right now...bless her. Well I hope so. 

Willylee


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Willylee said:


> There is talk of the funeral costs being circa £10.000,000
> 
> Anyone out there with an idea as to how this sum has been calculated?
> 
> ...


Whatever it cost Willy it were worth every penny
Just for the controvasy it caused

you related to Waterliy by any chance?
Coz I sure as hell like this aussie way of thinking!


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Willylee said:


> ..........................................................................................
> 
> Looking at the picture from a global prospectus, the Lady supported freedom, that to include freedom of speech and peaceful protest what this mustn't be confused with is the right to define anarchy as protest.


No she didn't. Repeating this doesn't not make it true. She was an elitist, not an egalitarian.



Willylee said:


> I am not a supporter of Baroness Thatcher specifically, but as I've said previously, like or loathe the lady, compared to the present government at least she was capable of decision making, such was her qualities, the country supported her, three times.
> 
> Surely we, the voting public can't be wrong three times on the trot?
> 
> ...


The voting system is definitely flawed - it is not a get-out clause. The majority of people did not vote Thatcher in at any of the general elections - just as the majority never vote in any government. It's one of the most unfair things about our present so-called democracy. For example, In the 1987 general election, 13,736, 395 people voted for her. 21,567,804 did not vote for her - ie a majority of around 7 million people did not want her in power. (And 25% of the voting population did not even bother to vote, so there may have been more.) Her other elections show a similar story.
1987 UK General election results, manifestos, PMs biography | UK Political Info

Even in the 1983 general election, widely touted as her "landslide victory" after the Falklands War, when 13,102,316 voted for her, 17,347,581 voted against her - so a majority of wellover 4 million people in the country STILL didn't want her to be in power (and 28% of the voting population didn't bother to vote that time so again, that figure against may well be higher)
1983 UK General election results, manifestos, PMs biography | UK Political Info


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

The voting system is definitely flawed - it is not a get-out clause. The majority of people did not vote Thatcher in at any of the general elections - just as the majority never vote in any government. It's one of the most unfair things about our present so-called democracy. For example said:


> 1987 UK General election results, manifestos, PMs biography | UK Political Info[/URL]
> 
> Even in the 1983 general election, widely touted as her "landslide victory" after the Falklands War, when 13,102,316 voted for her, 17,347,581 voted against her - so a majority of wellover 4 million people in the country STILL didn't want her to be in power (and 28% of the voting population didn't bother to vote that time so again, that figure against may well be higher)
> 1983 UK General election results, manifestos, PMs biography | UK Political Info


BUT! the voting system IMO is flawed in all ways!
any the figures you are quoting would not just have applied to Maggie BUT all that stood!

My view is that when we are voting for PM the WHoLE country should vote for that ONE leader the person that represents each party may that be labour, cons, lib dems, the greens, ukip , independants whatever!!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

They silenced big ben for Maggie, the longest serving PM and a woman at that
RIP Iron Lady
x


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

MissShelley said:


> I think if the libel claims against the dead affect the living, e.g. The family then they can pursue claim.


I think that's the case in the US - in the UK, not so, as far as I know.

(will have to google to be sure!)

Yep, first post BBC, second this:

MPs reject bid to let families sue for libel 2012


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## Willylee (Mar 21, 2013)

You've batted well DT, hit the boundary with many well placed strokes, but it sometimes helps when the opposition has bitten off a little more than the molars can manage.

Bowling with a bone in your mouth definitely affects performance at the wicket.

Willylee


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> I think that's the case in the US - in the UK, not so, as far as I know.
> 
> (will have to google to be sure!)
> 
> ...


I think you will find that the familes of the dead can seek libel in the UK NOW as of today
And if as your link suggests they cant!
Here is the lady to test the strength of that!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

myshkin said:


> I think that's the case in the US - in the UK, not so, as far as I know.
> 
> (will have to google to be sure!)


I think they can, if were talking defamation anyway.

So had someone suggest that person a (the deceased) had been sleeping with their son/daughter/mother/dad... then that family member can sue as the comment is intentionally said to harm not only the deceased character but also the living relatives.

Equally had someone falsely reported that a business owned by the deceased had closed, but it hadnt, the new business owner can sue as long as the report was intended (intention needs proving) to harm the business.

So whilst you cannot libel the dead, you need to a) make sure they are dead, and b) ensure what you have written about the deceased is not intended to harm a living persons character or business.

If lord lucan ever turns up alive, there could be some interesting court cases for libel!

edit: simple easy reading link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4630243.stm


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> Because....
> 
> Had it been a state funeral (with almost exactly the same pomp and ceremony as todays affair), it would have had to been subject to open parlimentary debate and approval. As it was all cameron had to do was give the nod, as SHE requested a ceremonial funeral, and not a state one to avoid the debate (and possible denial).


Ummm! I don't recall reading anywhere that Mrs T requested a ceremonial funeral 'instead' of a state funeral. What I read was that she had said she didnt want a state funeral. I think that's why she was given a ceremonial funeral instead of a state one. With being a leading Stateperson on a par with Winston Churchill she would have been given a State funeral as tradition. I read it was something she had talked about a long time ago.

Poor old dear probably knew it would have cause all this upset to her family and was trying to protect them (no proof of this afore folks want me to prove it) just guesswork - I always look for the best in folk.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> - I always look for the best in folk.


you could have a job finding em on this thread

Seems we are out numbered 10/1
but then empty vessels did always make most noise

Who exactly did I personally insult?


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

MCWillow said:


> Oh its already been stated the voting system is flawed and she was elected three times by a minority vote


Rolling your eyes at it in an attempt to ridicule it does not make it any less true 



MCWillow said:


> Some of the posts on this thread seem to be people _wanting_ to see protests. These are the people saying the population has a right to peaceful protest. Yes, they do have that right, but its a bit different saying you agree to the right to protest, than being upset that you didnt actually _see_ any protests.
> 
> It makes me wonder if all the 'people have a right to protest' posts, actually were 'rubbing hands together can't wait to see the protests' posts.
> 
> It was being filmed live. If you didnt like the footage you saw on one channel, just turn over your TV and watch another channel, its not rocket science.


I think you are missing the point here. The posts complaining about the protests not being shown were complaining about the bias of the BBC and the wider implications of that, not the fact that they wanted to see the protests. It was the bias and its implications in the wider scheme of things that were the important factors. Most people did watch other channels and saw the difference in what they were reporting and what the BBC were reporting. The BBC were deliberately not reporting the truth and THAT was what posts were complaining about.



MCWillow said:


> People arguing over what was thrown at the horses. The point is _something_ was thrown at the horses. In what world is that deemed acceptable? Does it matter if it was flowers or bottles? Ahhh, but the horses were already spooked so it didn't matter, so lets post the link and PF members can decide if anything thrown at all. It was in the Daily Mail, so it must be fake right?


Yet many sources reported that flowers were the only things thrown - and, furthermore, that they were thrown by the grieving supporters of Thatcher. So I guess that alters things and makes it acceptable in your books then?



MCWillow said:


> I have to say I am ashamed of a lot of attitudes I have seen recently. You didn't like a politician who ruled decades ago, and she had kids so she brought all this hatred on them? No she didn't. The only people that brought hatred onto her family are the people that have behaved in such an appalling manner.


I have to say that I am shamed of a lot of attitudes I have seen recently. The hypocrisy of people who think that just because someone is dead she must be revered, the insistence that someone must be respected just becuause she has died irrespective of the ills she has wrought upon the country, the sneering at anyone who dares to voice a different opinion, posters who in one breath say we must revere a politician because she has now died, but then in the next breath spit out vituperation against miners, steelworkers, dockers etc who have also died, the support of a national TV channel that suppresses the truth and chooses not to give the true picture of what happened today, the denial of people's rights to peacefully protest at a public occasion, the unacceptance of the feelings of a large part of the population, the attempt to make those who are speaking out for what they feel into some sort of low-life - oh yes, much to be ashamed of there imo.


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

chichi said:


> As for the scum that threw WHATEVER it was at the horses....hope Karma bites them big time on their backside. Goodness knows what sort of prat would throw anything at horses like that


Grieving supporters of Thatcher throwing flowers by most accounts. Scum indeed.


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Willylee said:


> You've batted well DT, hit the boundary with many well placed strokes, but it sometimes helps when the opposition has bitten off a little more than the molars can manage.
> 
> Bowling with a bone in your mouth definitely affects performance at the wicket.
> 
> Willylee





DT said:


> you could have a job finding em on this thread
> 
> Seems we are out numbered 10/1
> but then empty vessels did always make most noise


Can't help but notice the amount of personal insults you Thatcher supporters have stooped to on this thread as opposed to us arguing against her... not the tactics of those with a strong argument.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> Grieving supporters of Thatcher throwing flowers by most accounts. Scum indeed.


Not just by most accounts.... by the account of the Met police!

But of course, I suppose thats ok now? no? why? Flowers were thrown at diana's funeral procession... I dont remember a public outcry over that!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

JAChihuahua said:


> I think they can, if were talking defamation anyway.
> 
> So had someone suggest that person a (the deceased) had been sleeping with their son/daughter/mother/dad... then that family member can sue as the comment is intentionally said to harm not only the deceased character but also the living relatives.
> 
> ...


That's the first link I read....but yes, the living relatives can sue, if the words defame their own reputation - in which case the principle is the same: the dead cannot be libeled in English/Welsh law, only the living.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Rolling your eyes at it in an attempt to ridicule it does not make it any less true
> 
> I think the voting system is flawed to!
> 
> ...


What one would expect to hear when someone dies, lets say the moors murderers, is well I shall shead no tears, one does not expect them to go out in the numbers they did, they can dance on their graves for as long as they like, but this was all about causing a disturbance, what folks did in their own towns, villages, streets, houses no one cares, but to line the funeral route chanting their venom is pathetic imo!


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

DT said:


> I understood that any serving PM that did so whilst at war were entitled to a state funeral!
> Did I get that wrong?


They are so you are perfectly correct.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Tinder said:


> Can't help but notice the amount of personal insults you Thatcher supporters have stooped to on this thread as opposed to us arguing against her... not the tactics of those with a strong argument.


That aint a personal insult!  but if you would like me to chuck a few in it can sure be arranged


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Lel said:


> I have to say all the moaning about the cost of the funeral really winds me up.
> 
> As an individual I don't get a say in how any other public money is spent; why do people think that they should have a say in this? There are lots of thing I disagree with but I don't feel the need to go and protest about it.
> 
> ...


Anyone (you included) should protest about anything they strongly disagree with. Protesting about a small fortune being spent on a funeral that was unnecessary and unwanted by many is a perfectly reasonable activity.

I take real objection to your last paragraph - you seem to imply that only people in work have the right to protest. Why did you not wonder how many of those attending as supporters should have spent their day looking for paid employment instead?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Anyone (you included) should protest about anything they strongly disagree with. Protesting about a small fortune being spent on a funeral that was unnecessary and unwanted by many is a perfectly reasonable activity.
> 
> I take real objection to your last paragraph - you seem to imply that only people in work have the right to protest. Why did you not wonder how many of those attending as supporters should have spent their day looking for paid employment instead?


I do think that 10 million were too much to spend as it happens Val
But compared to what we send to eastern European countires in child allowance for children that don't live here (19 million a month)
And for what it costs us per day to be part of the EU (50million)
its a wee wee in the ocean/


----------



## Willylee (Mar 21, 2013)

Tinder, nowhere in any of my responses will you note a personal insult, my cricket references are simply an observation from some threads that leave an opening so wide a whole regiment can be marched through including a gun carriage.
DT is skilfull enough to take full advantage and has done so on many occasions.
You do yourself an injustice with such comments.

Willylee


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DT said:


> BUT! the voting system IMO is flawed in all ways!
> any the figures you are quoting would not just have applied to Maggie BUT all that stood!


Totally agree - and I said very much the same the FIRST time I posted this on this thread. 

Trouble is, the thread is getting so long now that people haven't read it all/can't be @rsed to read it all. What I said (go back and look if you don't believe me - it was post # 172 ) was that they only way we could ever stop this ridiculous rule by minority was to have a proportional represnetation system instead.


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Tinder said:


> Can't help but notice the amount of personal insults you Thatcher supporters have stooped to on this thread as opposed to us arguing against her... not the tactics of those with a strong argument.


Ach! I haven't insulted anyone at all on this thread - it's not in my nature. I have been insulted though a poster/member called Mollythingy (cant remember her full name and can't be arsed to look for it) in reply to one of my posts, she posted "Yur Mental" that was the complete post no reason given as to why she thought so.

And...I'm not a 'Thatcher' supporter as you so put it, I prefer to give the lady the title Mrs T. I was brought up to respect others, to be polite and good mannered. I have been arguing against people disrespecting others, living and dead because they wanted to and thought it was okay to be protesting at Mrs T's funeral.


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

DT said:


> That aint a personal insult!  but if you would like me to chuck a few in it can sure be arranged





Willylee said:


> DT is skilfull enough to take full advantage and has done so on many occasions.


Skilful you say? Singing:


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DT said:


> What one would expect to hear when someone dies, lets say the moors murderers, is well I shall shead no tears, one does not expect them to go out in the numbers they did, they can dance on their graves for as long as they like, but this was all about causing a disturbance, what folks did in their own towns, villages, streets, houses no one cares, but to line the funeral route chanting their venom is pathetic imo!


Where you see "causing a disturbance" I see "making a valid protest". It was a public event, being paid for by the public - ergo those members of the public who wanted to protest had every right to be there protesting.

If it had been a private event, then that would be different. As I said on one of these threads earlier, I would not have expected or condoned any protests at all if that had been the case.

The family chose public; they have therefore to accept the expressed views of the public -and that means ALL the public, not just the sycophants.


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Willylee said:


> Th
> 
> I'll wager Baroness Thatcher, sat on her cloud, handbagging St Peter and calling to Dennis for another whisky is laughing her cotton socks off right now...bless her. Well I hope so.
> 
> Willylee


I'll wager Thatcher is nowhere near a white cloud or St Peter.

In fact I did hear that she's only been in hell for a week and she's already closed three furnaces.


----------



## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

£10 million for the funeral? Very good value for money considering how much she saved the British taxpayer...

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Q&A: The UK budget rebate


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Lel said:


> But so what? Our government make decisions all the time that lots of people disagree with. If the issue is with Cameron "giving the nod" then the protest should be at Cameron's door, not her funeral.
> 
> And even if it had been a state funeral that she requested do you really think that a grand scale public funeral would not have taken place.


Only just remembered I meant to reply to this...

Thatcher approved funeral plans in 2002, 2006, 2008 and 2011. They changed slightly, from state to ceremonial (misreported as state by various tabloids, but google it you will find it) as she felt a state funeral would be divisive as it would need a full parlimentary debate to be approved. Therefore the protest during the publicly funded funeral is valid.

When anyone feels that the gvt (or tbh anyone else too) has made a wrong decision, and feels strongly enough, they protest. Be that the man on his soapbox in the town square or organised public marches and group protests. Therefore those who felt strongly enough to go (whatever their own reasons) have a valid reason to attend the funeral and protest.

Unfortunatly the yobbo's often infiltrate the group protests, then destruction and violence follow and marrs the whole groups intentions. Students felt strongly enough, so they went on a public protest....the idiots that rioted tarred them all. Teachers went on strike for a day, firefighters went on strike, nurses have been on strike and held public protests. More recently organised protests have taken place to show the gvt the disatisfaction at the way disabled people are being effected by the cuts, Pensioners have stood up to be counted and protested against the means testing, on the day Thatcher died, pensioners protested at the closure of Lewisham hospital!

Anyone with a grievance can stand and be heard, regardless of whether you or I like what they have to say so long as it is within the law.


----------



## Willylee (Mar 21, 2013)

Tinder said:


> Skilful you say? Singing:


You continue with your own injustice.
Suggest you read earlier threads, watch out for the barn doors and the responses. I repeat, the early responses. 
I have no allegiance to anyone. Nor do I rely on cartoons to emphasise a point.
Willylee


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Rolling your eyes at it in an attempt to ridicule it does not make it any less true


But thats the voting system we have, like it or not, it is what it is. You say many didn't vote so it could have been more. On the other hand it could also have been less - who knows?

I like to add a smiley now and then - it adds a bit of colour 



> I think you are missing the point here. The posts complaining about the protests not being shown were complaining about the bias of the BBC and the wider implications of that, not the fact that they wanted to see the protests. It was the bias and its implications in the wider scheme of things that were the important factors. Most people did watch other channels and saw the difference in what they were reporting and what the BBC were reporting. The BBC were deliberately not reporting the truth and THAT was what posts were complaining about.


Then maybe a thread should have been started about the BBC, instead of adding to a thread about the actual funeral. The only people to blame for the way the BBC portrayed the funeral is the BBC.



> Yet many sources reported that flowers were the only things thrown - and, furthermore, that they were thrown by the grieving supporters of Thatcher. So I guess that alters things and makes it acceptable in your books then?


If you read my post again, I actually said


MCWillow said:


> People arguing over what was thrown at the horses. The point is _something_ was thrown at the horses. In what world is that deemed acceptable? Does it matter if it was flowers or bottles?


I don't say, or imply, anywhere in that statement, that I think it is acceptable for _anything_ to be thrown at the horses by _anyone_.



> I have to say that I am shamed of a lot of attitudes I have seen recently. The hypocrisy of people who think that just because someone is dead she must be revered, the insistence that someone must be respected just becuause she has died irrespective of the ills she has wrought upon the country, the sneering at anyone who dares to voice a different opinion, posters who in one breath say we must revere a politician because she has now died, but then in the next breath spit out vituperation against miners, steelworkers, dockers etc who have also died, the support of a national TV channel that suppresses the truth and chooses not to give the true picture of what happened today, the denial of people's rights to peacefully protest at a public occasion, the unacceptance of the feelings of a large part of the population, the attempt to make those who are speaking out for what they feel into some sort of low-life - oh yes, much to be ashamed of there imo.


_I_ haven't said she should be respected just because she is dead. I _do _hold the opinion that her family should be afforded some respect, afterall, they had no choice who their mother or grandmother was. Even if they didnt agree with her, they would still love her and be grieving.

I don't think I have sneered at anyone offering a different opinion to mine either. If I have, it wasn't intentional, and I am totally unaware of it. Apologies to anyone that feels I have sneerd at them.

I haven't said anything against the miners, the steelworkers or the dock workers.

The only comment I made about the BBC was, if you don't like the coverage, turn over to a different channel. I didn't say whether I agreed with the coverage or not. I haven't even seen it. I was at work all day, and haven't had the TV on tonight.

I am not against peaceful protest either. Yes, it was a public occasion, but it was still a funeral, and still attended by the family of the deceased.

IMO, the family should have been left to grieve. People may say they had a choice with the funeral, but in reality, how many people that have just lost their sole remaining parent would have the energy or emotional strength to oppose the PM and the Monarchy, and fight for what they wanted?

I lost my stepdad on 2008, and I didn't have the strength to do much more than get through each day, and try to be strong for my son, who had just lost his grandad.

At the end of the day, she was a mum and a nan. Its the family left behind that I have been thinking of. How all this would have effected _them _at an incredibly difficult time.


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Buggered if i know what you're talking about to be honest  
I would ask you to explain but that would give the impression that I actually care.


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Last post aimed at willylee.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Where you see "causing a disturbance" I see "making a valid protest". It was a public event, being paid for by the public - ergo those members of the public who wanted to protest had every right to be there protesting.
> 
> If it had been a private event, then that would be different. As I said on one of these threads earlier, I would not have expected or condoned any protests at all if that had been the case.
> 
> The family chose public; they have therefore to accept the expressed views of the public -and that means ALL the public, not just the sycophants.


Im off to bed after this one Val
But there is a time and a place for everything, and in my opinion a funeral aint the place to show ones disapproaval of WHAT exactly?

Is it the cost of the funeral?
Because, A if this is the issue and one can hardly blame her for that, and whatever anyone does is going to have NO effect what soever on the person they are most protesting against - the one in the coffin!

If the cost is the argument then fraid its *this* government that you should be targeting and THEIR lack of balls and the fact that they were uncapable or unwilling to stand up and say! NO the countries in crisis everyones cutting back we cannot justify 10million on a funeral!

So assuming cost is whats antaganizing folk and that's what they were protesting against! Hate to have to be the one to tell you but you have all be targeting the wrong person! coz they know naff all about it

but on the otherhand maybe it weren't the funeral, but something else,

im off to bed now sure you'll put me right onthis one
nite
xx


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> But thats the voting system we have, like it or not, it is what it is. You say many didn't vote so it could have been more. On the other hand it could also have been less - who knows?
> 
> I like to add a smiley now and then - it adds a bit of colour
> 
> ...


I know we've said this before... but I have really enjoyed debating this all with you. We may have vastly opposing views, but you are one of the few posters on this thread who hasn't resorted to personally insulting posters (directly or deliberately indirectly). You have put forward your argument articulately and in a reasoned manner.

No point to this post really, just wanted to express this, this way in addition to the repping system.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

MCWillow said:


> But thats the voting system we have, like it or not, it is what it is. You say many didn't vote so it could have been more. On the other hand it could also have been less - who knows?


That's why I said "may" not "would". 



MCWillow said:


> Then maybe a thread should have been started about the BBC, instead of adding to a thread about the actual funeral. The only people to blame for the way the BBC portrayed the funeral is the BBC.


And the instructions they received from the government, maybe?



MCWillow said:


> _I_ haven't said she should be respected just because she is dead. I _do _hold the opinion that her family should be afforded some respect, afterall, they had no choice who their mother or grandmother was. Even if they didnt agree with her, they would still love her and be grieving.
> 
> I don't think I have sneered at anyone offering a different opinion to mine either. If I have, it wasn't intentional, and I am totally unaware of it. Apologies to anyone that feels I have sneerd at them.
> 
> ...


None of the points in this final paragaph were aimed specifically at you - sorry if I gave you the impression that they were. They were an amalgamation of the sentiments expressed in all the pro-Thatcher/anti-protest posts on here.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Knightofalbion said:


> £10 million for the funeral? Very good value for money *considering how much she saved the British taxpayer...*
> 
> BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Q&A: The UK budget rebate


In that case we'll just chuck Brown into a sack and float him out to sea.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

poohdog said:


> In that case we'll just chuck Brown into a sack and float him out to sea.


Can we afford a sack


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## mrsdolittle (Feb 28, 2013)

I liked how in the mining town, pretty much the whole town turned out to protest with a burning of a thatcher doll. Not that I agree with that, but to see that there was police, just a helicopter, was an amazing example of police thinking, "i'll keep a safe distance today thank you"


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

mrsdolittle said:


> I liked how in the mining town, pretty much the whole town turned out to protest with a burning of a thatcher doll. Not that I agree with that, but to see that there was police, just a helicopter, was an amazing example of police thinking, "i'll keep a safe distance today thank you"


I didnt like that one bit. A member here lives in that mining town and was terrified, schools were closed early to protect children. Needing to send children home from school urgently as staff are concerned for their safety is NOT what constitutes a peaceful protest imo.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Tinder said:


> *Buggered if i know what you're talking about* to be honest
> I would ask you to explain but that would give the impression that I actually care.


That sounds exactly like something my Dad would say  Let's go down the Bird I'th 'And and raise a glass of mild to those who fell by the wayside when this sainted person was in power


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

myshkin said:


> That sounds exactly like something my Dad would say  Let's go down the Bird I'th 'And and raise a glass of mild to those who fell by the wayside when this sainted person was in power


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

JAChihuahua said:


>


If he were on this thread, he might be telling people they had "too much gob on't stick!".

Well, he'd tell me that, mostly


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

myshkin said:


> If he were on this thread, he might be telling people they had "too much gob on't stick!".
> 
> Well, he'd tell me that, mostly


lol my mam has often said that about me!

along with

"" You can tell a Yorkshireman - But not much""


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

myshkin said:


> That sounds exactly like something my Dad would say  Let's go down the Bird I'th 'And and raise a glass of mild to those who fell by the wayside when this sainted person was in power


Tekin' t'piss you? You muss be one o' them soft, shandy-drinkin jessies f' be talkin like tha'.
Anyway moff bed!


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Tinder said:


> Tekin' t'piss you? You muss be one o' them soft, shandy-drinkin jessies f' be talkin like tha'.
> Anyway moff bed!


thad mek moar sense yodelling up thi own arse!

another of my mothers gems - reserved for arguing with my dad!


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

JAChihuahua said:


> thad mek moar sense yodelling up thi own arse!
> 
> another of my mothers gems - reserved for arguing with my dad!


I am going to say that next time I have a...ahem...difference of opinion with OH. I will win by making him laugh, for sure


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

61 pages!!!!! well all i can say now is, that i got my wish, that the lady would be put to rest with the dignity and respect she deserved, yes they were protesters but the tv did a great job of giving them no limelight.

For the ones that pathetically protested in their own villages, i hope they cleared up after themselves..........because its all about tax payers money, wouldnt want MT blamed for even more expenses.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*lol what the BBC didn't show..There were more protesters than we were allowed to see.*
Protests continue at Margaret Thatcher's funeral - YouTube


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol what the BBC didn't show..There were more protesters than we were allowed to see.*
> Protests continue at Margaret Thatcher's funeral - YouTube


good on them, why feed the ones that attended or watched the funeral just to see the ones that disrespected the family's day. I dont think there were anywhere near the amount of protesters, trouble that was expected again a waste of taxpayers money.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> good on them, why feed the ones that attended or watched the funeral just to see the ones that disrespected the family's day. I dont think there were anywhere near the amount of protesters, trouble that was expected again a waste of taxpayers money.


*lol A waste of tax payers money? Like the 10 million for the funeral? As for the news, they have no right to censor our news. Some people might not like to hear the truth, but i do.*


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol A waste of tax payers money? Like the 10 million for the funeral? As for the news, they have no right to censor our news. Some people might not like to hear the truth, but i do.*


Ive never said i agree with the 10m, i dont if ime honest, i think she deserved the best send off, but i can see the fury over the tax payers money, then i think we can fund all these illegal immigrants, we can fund all these lazy "wont work" individuals and it eases it somewhat.

The bbc wasnt there to televise the protesters they were there for the funeral.


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

myshkin said:


> I am going to say that next time I have a...ahem...difference of opinion with OH. I will win by making him laugh, for sure


Ha ha me too. He already speaks St. Helens phrases in a northen Irish accent so a bit of Yorkshire will do him no harm!


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> 61 pages!!!!! well all i can say now is, that i got my wish, that the lady would be put to rest with the dignity and respect she deserved, yes they were protesters but the tv did a great job of giving them no limelight.


Sorry to have to tell you, but you didn't exactly get your wish. The BBC may have led you to believe you got your wish, but the BBC was not showing the truth.

You may prefer to live in a pretend "BBC" world where all is rosy - but thankfully, due to less biased TV coverage by other channels, plus the things posted on the world-wide web, the rest of the world has seen the true picture - that a huge percentage of the population felt she deserved neither dignity nor respect and were not too hypocritical to show it.



haeveymolly said:


> For the ones that pathetically protested in their own villages, i hope they cleared up after themselves..........because its all about tax payers money, wouldnt want MT blamed for even more expenses.


Why do you see celebrating the death of an oppressor, in one of the areas that was most oppressed, as pathetic?



JANICE199 said:


> *lol what the BBC didn't show..There were more protesters than we were allowed to see.*
> Protests continue at Margaret Thatcher's funeral - YouTube


Now why am I not surprised? Thank goodness for the world wide web so that those of us who would rather know the truth than live in Heaveymolly's pretend world can see what the establishment does not want us to see.

I said it earlier in this thread but it's worth saying again - it's coming to something when we have to watch Al Jazeera to get a true picture of what is happening in our own country.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Margaret Thatcher&#039;s funeral was a political broadcast - Comment - Voices - The Independent

"Margaret Thatcher's funeral was a political broadcast
We all deserve a dignified send-off. Instead, this occasion was hijacked and turned into a state-endorsed celebration of a legacy bitterly detested by millions".
*Just about sums the day up for me.*


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol A waste of tax payers money? Like the 10 million for the funeral? As for the news, they have no right to censor our news. Some people might not like to hear the truth, but i do.*


I totally agree with you on this Janice, extra money would not have been wasted on security for the protesters if the tax payer had not been expected to pay towards the funeral.

I do believe that there is far more censored in our news items than we realise and that we are often fed very one sided views to distort the truth on many subjects. I wouldnt imagine that this would be of any surprise to many as politicians are notorious for their incapacity to do straight talking, answer questions and generally talk in riddles.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Spellweaver said:


> Sorry to have to tell you, but you didn't exactly get your wish. The BBC may have led you to believe you got your wish, but the BBC was not showing the truth.
> 
> You may prefer to live in a pretend "BBC" world where all is rosy - but thankfully, due to less biased TV coverage by other channels, plus the things posted on the world-wide web, the rest of the world has seen the true picture - that a huge percentage of the population felt she deserved neither dignity nor respect and were not too hypocritical to show it.
> 
> ...


I DID get my wish SW people who tuned in yesterday to watch the funeral wasnt bombarded by the protesters.
pictures on the web/youtube, great everyones happy!!!!

I dont live in a pretend world, i live in a world that has their fair share of tragedies, people injured,killed, seeing the latest boston bombing i really dont think there is any place for mindless hurt.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

I saw one maybe two people protesting there who would of lived under Thatchers rule....The ones waving pints of milk about were not directly affected anything that happened in the 80's. The milk debacle didn't affect them in the slightest so why protest about it?.... That would be like my son going down there and waving a pint of milk about ranting about the 'injustice of it all' Or maybe it was symbolism? 

But protest was their right too, glad that we live in a society that enable us to speak out against what we disagree with. That was one thing Margaret Thatcher stood for was freedom of speech. And she probably would of loved all that protesting. Afterall, she herself loved a good debate. So she achieved in death, exactly what she achieved in life. Division.

Good to see that the small group of defiance didn't spoil it for the ones that wanted to pay their respects though.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> I DID get my wish SW people who tuned in yesterday to watch the funeral wasnt bombarded by the protesters.
> pictures on the web/youtube, great everyones happy!!!!
> 
> I dont live in a pretend world, i live in a world that has their fair share of tragedies, people injured,killed, seeing the latest boston bombing i really dont think there is any place for mindless hurt.


*Do you not see though, what the BBC did was to lie to us and the whole world. What message does that send out? That Britain can't be trusted.*


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

MissShelley said:


> I saw one maybe two people protesting there who would of lived under Thatchers rule....The ones waving pints of milk about were not directly affected anything that happened in the 80's. The milk debacle didn't affect them in the slightest so why protest about it?.... That would be like my son going down there and waving a pint of milk about ranting about the 'injustice of it all' Or maybe it was symbolism?


i would say it was symbolic, yes. "Carry a pint of milk" same as "dress in red" and other instructions floating about the net. As for whether people not born under her rule and whether they have a right to protest that has been covered very eloquently by other posters so I'm not going to go on about it again ...the fact that her policies have continued with successive governments and continue to do so today. The fact that people were protesting for other reasons...the welfare reform cuts, the cost of the funeral & fact that we had to pay for most of it etc.



> But protest was their right too, glad that we live in a society that enable us to speak out against what we disagree with. That was one thing Margaret Thatcher stood for was freedom of speech.


Only for certain sections of society though eh? Only for "her people". Only if people agreed with her in the end. This has also been covered in this thread but have a quick read here of the lovely company she liked to keep. It should illustrate how committed she was to freedom: 
The Ironic Lady: Margaret Thatcher, Supposed Champion of 'Freedom and Democracy', and Her Dictator Friends



> And ...So she achieved in death, exactly what she achieved in life. Division.


Cough...splutter...ahem...and you're actually offering this in praise of her??? That she divided people? Divided a country? You seriously think this was a good thing? Unbelieveable! Churchill is the only other PM to have a funeral comparable to Thatcher's. I'm no big fan of his but at least he managed to unite his country not set neighbour against neighbour as Thatcher did.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

God Bless Saint Thatcher, saviour of England, defeater of the unions, and communism, and the IRA....like Arthur (King, not Scargill) maybe you will return when the country needs you again

From the "Tilbury" speech...



> Si deus nobiscum quis contra nos?


If you were in a fight who would you want on your team, Blair/Brown or Thatcher?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

MissShelley said:


> I saw one maybe two people protesting there who would of lived under Thatchers rule....The ones waving pints of milk about were not directly affected anything that happened in the 80's. The milk debacle didn't affect them in the slightest so why protest about it?.... That would be like my son going down there and waving a pint of milk about ranting about the 'injustice of it all' Or maybe it was symbolism?


There is still a grant from the EU to schools for milk, my wife saw it in school accounts, they dont buy milk though

another myth, like the FACT that Wilson closed 326 pits and Thatcher only closed 154


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Tinder said:


> i would say it was symbolic, yes. "Carry a pint of milk" same as "dress in red" and other instructions floating about the net. As for whether people not born under her rule and whether they have a right to protest that has been covered very eloquently by other posters so I'm not going to go on about it again ...the fact that her policies have continued with successive governments and continue to do so today. The fact that people were protesting for other reasons...the welfare reform cuts, the cost of the funeral & fact that we had to pay for most of it etc.
> 
> Only for certain sections of society though eh? Only for "her people". Only if people agreed with her in the end. This has also been covered in this thread but have a quick read here of the lovely company she liked to keep. It should illustrate how committed she was to freedom:
> The Ironic Lady: Margaret Thatcher, Supposed Champion of 'Freedom and Democracy', and Her Dictator Friends
> ...


Fair enough, those are your thoughts. They differ from mine.

I never said it was praise of her, where did I say it was in praise of her?

Hmm what a shame people have to pour scorn over other people's posts.

I stand by what I said. It is my opinion, whether you like it or not.n She did divide the country and she is still causing divide.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> There is still a grant from the EU to schools for milk, my wife saw it in school accounts, they dont buy milk though


Personally Im glad the milk were stopped in schools, Least is saved other poor children from being forced to drink the revolting stuff!
Put me off milk for life it did!


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> There is still a grant from the EU to schools for milk, my wife saw it in school accounts, they dont buy milk though
> 
> another myth, like the FACT that Wilson closed 326 pits and Thatcher only closed 154


This is true, there is one for fruit too, or could be just for the under three's the fruit i'm not sure. Been long time since I worked in England in LEA registered places


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

63 pages, 1600 posts, and 1500 likes and Maggies still causing a stir
and ALL from the grave


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> Only just remembered I meant to reply to this...
> 
> Thatcher approved funeral plans in 2002, 2006, 2008 and 2011. They changed slightly, from state to ceremonial (misreported as state by various tabloids, but google it you will find it) as she felt a state funeral would be divisive as it would need a full parlimentary debate to be approved. Therefore the protest during the publicly funded funeral is valid.
> 
> ...


No quarrel with folks protesting against stuff - heck I've done it myself. JUST NOT AT A FUNERAL. It's disrespectful!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> No quarrel with folks protesting against stuff - heck I've done it myself. JUST NOT AT A FUNERAL. It's disrespectful!


*To be honest everyone knew there were going to be protesters. Even the commentator said MT wouldn't have expected any less.
And secondly, the family had their own private affair afterwards.*


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Do you not see though, what the BBC did was to lie to us and the whole world. What message does that send out? That Britain can't be trusted.*


Absolutely Jan - we must be the laughing stock of the world. This is what I meant by the similarity to North Korea. The "official", doctored version of events might soothe the sensibilities of those who either cannot or will not see that they are being fed bullshit - but to the rest of the world it is blindingly obvious that the establishment is trying to present an untrue picture.

Think how it must look to other countries - the offical establishment presentation was that of the whole country in mourning for a revered leader, yet the truth was that a large section of the country was not in mourning and, in fact, hated her. If we saw that in a documentary about another country - eg North Korea - where would our sympathies lie? Not with the establishment, but with the oppressed people. And that is the pricture that the rest of the world will have of our country, our people.

In their effort to try to pretend that all in the garden was rosy, the government and the BBC have shown themselves up for the lying hypocrites they are - and just as it was obvious to the reporter in the N Korea documentary that the "hospital" was all show, so it will be obvious to the rest of the world that the presentation of Thatcher as a leader revered by all was also all show.


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

MissShelley said:


> I never said it was praise of her, where did I say it was in praise of her?


By adding the 'division' comment to the end of a paragraph where you were extolling her virtues? ...her alleged love of freedom..love of protest...love of debate... forgive me for assuming you thought division was also one of her virtues. You could've said BUT she also caused division. Easy!



> Hmm what a shame people have to pour scorn over other people's posts.


Sorry if that's how my post comes across. It really isn't meant like that. If you disagreed with my views I wouldn't think you were being scornful. I'd just think you disagreed with me.



> I stand by what I said. It is my opinion, whether you like it or not.n She did divide the country and she is still causing divide.


Couldn't agree more with you.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *To be honest everyone knew there were going to be protesters. Even the commentator said MT wouldn't have expected any less.
> And secondly, the family had their own private affair afterwards.*


Regardless of any 'private' funeral arrangements her family made, Mrs T's family were at the ceremonial funeral. They will have seen the protests, do you think they weren't there?

I reiterate - It's disrespectful to protest at a funeral, anyone's funeral. The person the protests were targetted at is dead, there is nothing she can do to alter what happened in the past or the future, there is nothing her family can do either, what she did when in power is not their fault they are not culpable.

If people want to protest about the cost of the funeral they do it afterwards - JUST NOT AT THE FUNERAL ITSELF.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> If people want to protest about the cost of the funeral they do it afterwards - JUST NOT AT THE FUNERAL ITSELF.


Exactly. I am all for freedom of speech and protest, but there is a limit when it comes to hate speech and mob behaviour.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Sorry - only got this far and almost choked on my tea. If there is one politician who most definitely did *not* believe in the right to protest it was Thatcher. She passed legislation to stop solidarity strikes, used the met to stop food parcels reaching miners on strike and used the police to attack striking miners at several locations - notably Orgreave. (A strike is a form of protest)
> 
> Why do you think anyone who protests against something does not have the right to rest in peace?


How many attempts did Scargill have to try & get a legal strike, 3 was it?



JAChihuahua said:


> I did say I used the wrong word with evasion, and it was avoidance... still stand by it.
> 
> Her multi million pound property is now owned by a po box company linked with her in the virgin islands/channel islands and leichtenstein. Its not hard to find, google it.... heres one to get you started! Margaret Thatcher the tax snatcher? Mystery of her £6m house with links to THREE tax havens - Mirror Online
> 
> ...


The Mirror - this is a better class of paper than the Mail is it, so we should not believe anything in the Mail but the Mirror is 100% accurate ?



JANICE199 said:


> *lol what the BBC didn't show..There were more protesters than we were allowed to see.*
> Protests continue at Margaret Thatcher's funeral - YouTube





JANICE199 said:


> *lol A waste of tax payers money? Like the 10 million for the funeral? As for the news, they have no right to censor our news. Some people might not like to hear the truth, but i do.*


May have already been said but the BBC programme was coverage of the funeral, it was not a news report - the cameras were therefore focused on the funeral not a bunch of protesters. I have watched actual news programmes since and more coverage was given to protestors in the news.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> Regardless of any 'private' funeral arrangements her family made, Mrs T's family were at the ceremonial funeral. They will have seen the protests, do you think they weren't there?
> 
> I reiterate - It's disrespectful to protest at a funeral, anyone's funeral. The person the protests were targetted at is dead, there is nothing she can do to alter what happened in the past or the future, there is nothing her family can do either, what she did when in power is not their fault they are not culpable.
> 
> If people want to protest about the cost of the funeral they do it afterwards - JUST NOT AT THE FUNERAL ITSELF.


*How can it be disrespectful. Surely you would need to respect the person in life if your going to show respect to them in death.
She showed no respect for thousands in this country, why then should they show her respect?
*


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Tinder said:


> By adding the 'division' comment to the end of a paragraph where you were extolling her virtues? ...her alleged love of freedom..love of protest...love of debate... forgive me for assuming you thought division was also one of her virtues. You could've said BUT she also caused division. Easy!
> 
> Sorry if that's how my post comes across. It really isn't meant like that. If you disagreed with my views I wouldn't think you were being scornful. I'd just think you disagreed with me.
> 
> Couldn't agree more with you.


Well sorry for not wording my post the way you wanted me too...... It's not my fault you misinterpreted.

And yes, it came across to me exactly like that. How else was I meant to interpret the 'cough splutter' references? were they really necessary? it came across as scornful. The whole post came across as scornful, I feel I may of taken a bit more notice of you had you worded yourself better.

I try and objective in everything I read. never assume what others mean or belittle anyone. Say what ya see, not how you see it is my take on posts.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

MissShelley said:


> This is true, there is one for fruit too, or could be just for the under three's the fruit i'm not sure. Been long time since I worked in England in LEA registered places


I wonder what the money got spent on...


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> Regardless of any 'private' funeral arrangements her family made, Mrs T's family were at the ceremonial funeral. They will have seen the protests, do you think they weren't there?
> 
> I reiterate - It's disrespectful to protest at a funeral, anyone's funeral. The person the protests were targetted at is dead, there is nothing she can do to alter what happened in the past or the future, there is nothing her family can do either, what she did when in power is not their fault they are not culpable.
> 
> If people want to protest about the cost of the funeral they do it afterwards - JUST NOT AT THE FUNERAL ITSELF.


If youre going to protest about anything you want it to have maximum impact. Protesting when the worlds dignitaries have gone home, when the cameras have moved on and when no-one is basically interested would have nowhere near the same impact.

As weve seen yesterday with the beebs coverage youre not guaranteed unbiased airtime with any of the news channels. Bad news (that the government dont want us to know) is buried by other news stories all the time. You have to strike when the irons hot to maximise your chances of being heard at all. So to protest at any time other than the funeral would be pretty pointless imo.

It would be buried _all too easily_ if done at any other time.

Shes a public figure. Surely her family know that she is loved and hated in equal measure? Does anyone seriously think her family care what the general public think? Do you honestly think they werent expecting any dissent? If so is it not good that they are given a balanced picture of what people thought and still think of her?

Thatchers family dont live in the same world as us. Do we really think arrogant, money-grubbin, gun-running Mark Thatcher will be hurt by what a load of plebs like us think?

Thats not to say I agree with people burning effigies, stamping on photos of her etc  that just makes them look as savage and heartless as she was - but quiet protests like back turning are both dignified and thoroughly understandable. Such strength of public feeling, the like of which hasnt been seen in a long time, just HAS to have the outlet it warrants.


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

MissShelley said:


> Well sorry for not wording my post the way you wanted me too...... It's not my fault you misinterpreted.
> 
> And yes, it came across to me exactly like that. How else was I meant to interpret the 'cough splutter' references? were they really necessary? it came across as scornful. The whole post came across as scornful, I feel I may of taken a bit more notice of you had you worded yourself better.


Sorry if that's how i came across. Didn't think my doing a fake cough would be so offensive to you. I'll take on board your comments.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *How can it be disrespectful. Surely you would need to respect the person in life if your going to show respect to them in death.
> She showed no respect for thousands in this country, why then should they show her respect?
> *


you show respect for death and the dead, the person you knew at Maggie Thatcher was more than the physical shell and ceased to exist the instant breath left the body, in some religions they venerate the corpse...


----------



## Willylee (Mar 21, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> Margaret Thatcher's funeral was a political broadcast - Comment - Voices - The Independent
> 
> "Margaret Thatcher's funeral was a political broadcast
> We all deserve a dignified send-off. Instead, this occasion was hijacked and turned into a state-endorsed celebration of a legacy bitterly detested by millions".
> *Just about sums the day up for me.*


Now this really is silly.

Apolitical broadcast by ?????
For what purpose?????
Detested by millions?????
State endorsed celebration????

I understand the funeral was originally the brainchild of Mr Blair. Is this the Mr Blair who sent Mrs T's boys as she referred to them over to fight a war that wasn't directly connected to the UK? How many of her boys have lost their young lives in this dispute? Can't really refer to it as a war now, can we?

The Beeb, as they said they would, showed the nation a funeral befitting her status as PM.(ex)
Those amongst us, had a choice of viewing where the protesters could be seen venting their wrath and anger which of course they had the right to do. Tasteless or tasteful is again another choice which Mrs T was a staunch supporter of.
Those who wish to criticise the Beeb only had to press a button on the remote.

It's recorded in the newspaper today....the cost of the funeral will be nowhere near the £10m quoted previously. I knew that, see previous thread.

Now theres a little good news....or is it? Will it disappoint those who simply revel in a good gripe?

Very little room for anger....brings on stress and makes everyone's life a misery, not just the individual who displays the wrath.

Have a great day.

Willylee


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Willylee said:


> Now this really is silly.
> 
> Apolitical broadcast by ?????
> For what purpose?????
> ...


*It might be silly to you, but i happen to agree with the link i posted. I still have the right to my opinion.
As for anger, lmao..just because i, along with others dare voice our opinions we are now angry? Not me, i wouldn't give MT the satisfaction.
*


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> i wouldn't give MT the satisfaction.


*unlike many on here she now has eternal peace, and a good laugh if she has PF access
*


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> There is still a grant from the EU to schools for milk, my wife saw it in school accounts, they dont buy milk though


Could you elaborate on what you mean by this CB? Are you saying schools should be providing milk to older kids (over 5) but are not? My daughter still gets her nursery milk every day as do all under 5's as far as I'm aware...perhaps you know different?


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> How many attempts did Scargill have to try & get a legal strike, 3 was it?


What illegal strike? You only believe it was an illegal strike because you believe the misinformation fed to you be the establishment - in much the same way, ironically, as people on here are believing he misinformation about the protesters at the funeral.

The strike was legal by the NUM rules:

_The NUM's rules permitted areas to take official strike action if authorised by our national executive committee in accordance with Rule 41. If the NEC gave Scotland and Yorkshire authorisation under this rule, it could galvanise other areas to seek similar support for action against closures.

The Scotland and Yorkshire NUM areas did vote to seek endorsement from the NEC for strike action, and at the NEC meeting on 8 March were given authorisation under Rule 41. South Wales and Kent then also asked for authorisation. The NEC agreed, and confirmed that other areas could, if they wished, do the same

A question that has been raised time and time again over the past 25 years is: why did the union not hold a national strike ballot? Those who attack our struggle by vilifying me usually say: "Scargill rejected calls for a ballot."

However, NUM areas had a right to ask the NEC to convene a special national delegate conference (as we had when calling the overtime ban) to determine whether delegates mandated by their areas should vote for a national individual ballot or reaffirm the decision of the NEC to permit areas such as Scotland, Yorkshire, South Wales and Kent to take strike action in accordance with Rule 41.

McGahey, Heathfield and I had done the arithmetic beforehand, and were truly surprised that when the vote was taken, delegates rejected calls for a national strike ballot and decided instead to call on all miners to refuse to cross picket lines - and join the 140,000 already on strike. We later learned that members of one area delegation had been so moved by the arguments put forward in the debate that they'd held an impromptu meeting and switched their vote in support of the area strikes in accordance with Rule 41._
Arthur Scargill: 'We could surrender - or stand and fight' | Politics | The Guardian



DoodlesRule said:


> May have already been said but the BBC programme was coverage of the funeral, it was not a news report


It was reportage of a significant event in the history of the country and as such should have been reported accurately. Because it has not been reported accurately, twenty years from now people will be on forums like this actually believing that the lies they were shown are the truth - in much the same way as you have done above with your "illegal" strike that was not really illegal.

And just as you will no doubt be able to come up with links to media coverage that will say the strike was illegal, so will they be able to come up with links to media coverage to say that the funeral showed how revered Thacther was by all the country. Neither is right. Both are misinformation and political propaganda.


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> *unlike many on here she now has eternal peace, and a good laugh if she has PF access
> *


She's just as likely to be in eternal damnation for all the death and destruction she caused.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Tinder said:


> Could you elaborate on what you mean by this CB? Are you saying schools should be providing milk to older kids (over 5) but are not? My daughter still gets her nursery milk every day as do all under 5's as far as I'm aware...perhaps you know different?


I personally didnt see it, wife ran a kids-club and also worked as a SEN teaching asst, not sure where she saw it


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> She's just as likely to be in eternal damnation for all the death and destruction she caused.


you carry on being bitter, it will eat you up.

as for death and destruction, try Iraq.....an illegal war based on lies, unlike the Falklands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

Hold on, im sure there WERE WMD's....


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

psst! To any that may hve missed this point in the million posts it was mentioned...many of us on here who hate Thatcher hate Blair too


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> I personally didnt see it, wife ran a kids-club and also worked as a SEN teaching asst, not sure where she saw it


As far as i'm aware schools /private nurseries buy the milk themselves then claim the money back after. 
I was just trying to understand what 'budget' set aside for this your wife had seen and where.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Tinder said:


> As far as i'm aware schools /private nurseries buy the milk themselves then claim the money back after.
> I was just trying to understand what 'budget' set aside for this your wife had seen and where.


i would say it was a few years ago now


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

Nae worries


----------



## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

Tinder said:


> As far as i'm aware schools /private nurseries buy the milk themselves then claim the money back after.
> I was just trying to understand what 'budget' set aside for this your wife had seen and where.


I found this - House of Commons Hansard Written Answers for 25 Mar 2013 (pt 0002)
School Milk

Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for Stevenage of 6 March 2013, Official Report, column 1086W, on school milk, whether the European School Milk Scheme was open to early years settings, including Ofsted registered settings, prior to 2008; what EU rules changed in 2008 that extended the European School Milk Scheme to early years settings; and for which breaches of the EU requirements the Government was asked to return £2,641,271.08 to the European Commission in 2010. [148617]

Mr Heath: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

Approved applicants were able to claim under the European School Milk Scheme for nurseries linked to primary schools prior to 2008. The EU rules were amended in 2008, from which time access to the scheme was granted to all early years settings.

The Government decided to return the £2,641,271.08 because there were concerns over nursery settings' ability to comply in full with onerous EU record keeping requirements.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> She showed no respect for thousands in this country, why then should they show her respect?


Possibly because they would like to be respected themselves by others. After all if you can't respect others, do you really expect to be respected in turn.

Possibly because they want to be better than her, not emulate her.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> No quarrel with folks protesting against stuff - heck I've done it myself. JUST NOT AT A FUNERAL. It's disrespectful!


How do you feel about those protesting outside hospitals?

It can disturb patients, visitors and staff. There will be members of the public there who are grieving, others who disagree with the protest and possibly some patients stressed by the demonstrations which could be detrimental to their recovery (please note i said possibly and could, not are and is).

I haven't seen any threads in uproar about the effects on these innocents...why?

Another post suggested waiting until after the funeral to protest, should the lewisham oap protest have waited until after the hospital had closed? No, because they are protesting against the closure...just like many at the funeral were protesting against the cost of the funeral.

I have also seen it written that the funeral was the wrong place for the protest, it's aimed at the govt, and so should have been outside parliament. So conversely the oap protest should ONLY have been outside parliament too? Again where are the threads complaining about their lack of respect or decency?

This isn't purely aimed at you sss, although i have quoted you, it's aimed at all those who keep mentioning that the funeral was the wrong place to protest.


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> you carry on being bitter, it will eat you up.


I'm not bitter - just a realist. (Why all this insistance that anyone who did not agree with what Thatcher did is bitter?) If you believe in an afterlife where you are judged on your deeds on earth, then she will certainly be judged on what she did and not what her sycophants like to pretend she did. I can't understand why you think that makes me bitter.



Colliebarmy said:


> as for death and destruction, try Iraq.....an illegal war based on lies, unlike the Falklands


Ah, silly me - I'd forgotten you Thatcher followers had re-written the 6th commandment to read "Thou shalt not kill unless it was in the Falklands War". Again, if you believe in God (which I guess you must do with all your remarks about her resting in peace) then I'm guessing his *original *commandment will be what he will be judging her by. He won't be taking any notice of amendments by a few illogical humans.

On a more secular note, if you have to use the atrocities of another leader to justify the atrocities of a leader you venerate, then your argument is lost before you start. Two wrongs don't make a right. Blair is another one who will have to face his maker under the sixth commandment.

And what Tinder says below just epitomises why your argument is lost before it starts:



Tinder said:


> psst! To any that may hve missed this point in the million posts it was mentioned...many of us on here who hate Thatcher hate Blair too


Spot on!



JANICE199 said:


> *She showed no respect for thousands in this country, why then should they show her respect?
> *


I agree -but there are some very peculiar ideas of respect on this thread:


you have to respect someone who has died - no, respect is earned during life and death makes no difference. If you had to respect someone just because they have died, you would have to respect Hitler, Saddam Hussain, Osama bin Laden etc etc.
you have to respect someone who is old - no, again respect is earned by deeds and actions; it is not age specific. I know many elderly people who are deserving of great respect for their deeds and actions, but I know some who are not. Similarly, I know young people who are deserving of great respect.
You have to respect others before they will respect you - no, you earn respect by your deeds and actions. Respecting someone who does not deserve respect will not attract respect. 
You have to respect someone's funeral - no, not if that funeral is for a person who does not deserve respect and especially not if the family have allowed the funeral to be used as a public tory propaganda tool

I could go on, but it all boils down to one basic fact - respect is earned, not banded about willy-nilly because someone feels it is the "right" thing to do.


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

I was glad to hear that Maggie had a Sun Life insurance policy 'To help with funeral expenses'
Nice to hear that we aren't having to pay for all this.Thanks Parkinson.... (Shame you never got over looking like a prat when Rod Hull and Emu beat the crap out of you)

PS....Message to Mark Thatcher...If you don't need that free Parker pen...can I have it?


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *How can it be disrespectful. Surely you would need to respect the person in life if your going to show respect to them in death.
> She showed no respect for thousands in this country, why then should they show her respect?
> *


You just don't get it do you?

It's disrespectful to her FAMILY, not her. Shes dead and gone, doesn't give a hoot to what anyone thinks, not any more. You can't hurt her, you can't repay her somehow by protesting, she isn't here. It's consideration to her FAMILY, their feelings, crikey, don't you think they're upset enough? What would you feel if it was your mother, your grandmother?


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> You just don't get it do you?
> 
> It's disrespectful to her FAMILY, not her. Shes dead and gone, doesn't give a hoot to what anyone thinks, not any more. You can't hurt her, you can't repay her somehow by protesting, she isn't here. It's consideration to her FAMILY, their feelings, crikey, don't you think they're upset enough? What would you feel if it was your mother, your grandmother?


*:lol::lol::lol: My mother was no angel, but as far as i know she didn't do anything like MT did. As for my grandmother, now she was a cow.
You have your opinion and i, along with others will have ours. *


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> How do you feel about those protesting outside hospitals?
> 
> It can disturb patients, visitors and staff. There will be members of the public there who are grieving, others who disagree with the protest and possibly some patients stressed by the demonstrations which could be detrimental to their recovery (please note i said possibly and could, not are and is).
> 
> ...


I point you to the reply I gave to Janice. And to my reasons why. It's pointless for me to keep repeating myself. There are none so blind as those that will not see.


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

Done to death


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *:lol::lol::lol: My mother was no angel, but as far as i know she didn't do anything like MT did. As for my grandmother, now she was a cow.
> You have your opinion and i, along with others will have ours. *


Oh my! You don't even respect your own family do you? How very stupid of me to expect you to respect anothers.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> Oh my! You don't even respect your own family do you? How very stupid of me to expect you to respect anothers.


*Oh you are so wrong. I had the greatest of respect for my father..had you been here longer you would have known that. But i'll forgive you for jumping to conclusions.*


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

Done to death by slanderous tongues
Was the Hero that here lies.
Death, in guerdon of her wrongs,
Gives her fame which never dies.
So the life that died with shame
Lives in death with glorious fame.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Respecting the living? Respecting the dead? Surely most important to respect oneself..

The hateful, spiteful things that have been said (here and elsewhere) ...

Ultimately, the only person they have managed to disrespect is themselves...
The only person they have dishonoured is themselves...
The only soul they have besmirched is their own... 

One can disagree, be it with the person, the politics or the stance, but one can do it and still retain dignity.


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## Knightofalbion (Jul 3, 2012)

Rest in peace, Mrs Thatcher.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> You just don't get it do you?
> 
> It's disrespectful to her FAMILY, not her. Shes dead and gone, doesn't give a hoot to what anyone thinks, not any more. You can't hurt her, you can't repay her somehow by protesting, she isn't here. It's consideration to her FAMILY, their feelings, crikey, don't you think they're upset enough? What would you feel if it was your mother, your grandmother?


ok.. shall we examine her family?

Carol Thatcher - who was sacked for racist remarks
Mark Thatcher - guilty of funding an attempted coup d'état

These same children left her to spend christmas 2010 & 2011 alone with only her housekeeper as company (although in 2011, she had a last minute invitation to dine with her neice)...returning only in 2012 when their mum was put in hospital.

So much for me to respect there!  .......at least thats if we believe what has been reported in the papers!

Now I have nothing personal against her family, & contrary to popular belief I do have a heart. Her family are not the ones who instigated the policies, however as carol herself has stated that her mothers dementia was already very progressed by 2004, all those conversations regarding her funeral plans will have taken place WITH the family! They will have been counselled about the potential for protests, and its hardly like Carol and Mark are unaware that their mother isnt held as a saint by the entire population.

I understand that YOU believe that a funeral is not a place for a protest, out of YOUR respect for the family, but you must accept that I am allowed to disagree! So I guess no... I just dont get it !


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> I point you to the reply I gave to Janice. And to my reasons why. It's pointless for me to keep repeating myself. There are none so blind as those that will not see.


Your post to Janice doesnt answer or apply to mine!...


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Knightofalbion said:


> Respecting the living? Respecting the dead? Surely most important to respect oneself..
> 
> The hateful, spiteful things that have been said (here and elsewhere) ...
> 
> ...


*Surely voicing your opinion doesn't mean you have no respect for speaking out.
I saw the news yesterday and i felt i was being disrespected and taken for a fool, for not being shown the truth.*


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

nutty said:


> Done to death by slanderous tongues
> Was the Hero that here lies.
> Death, in guerdon of her wrongs,
> Gives her fame which never dies.
> ...


*Thatchers Prayer*

Where there are pits
.....May we bring destruction

Where there are communities
.....May we bring strife

Where there is work
.....May we bring unemployment

Where there is hope
.....May we bring despair


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> *Thatchers Prayer*
> 
> Where there are pits
> .....May we bring destruction
> ...


*She sure got her prayer answered.*


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

Done to Death...:Yawn:


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

nutty said:


> Done to Death...:Yawn:


you've repeated yourself there? is your short term memory ok?

Feel free to pop me on ignore if your bored, or if that's a bit extreme just don't bother to read the thread! - just a suggestion of course, not a command


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> you've repeated yourself there? is your short term memory ok?
> 
> Feel free to pop me on ignore if your bored, or if that's a bit extreme just don't bother to read the thread! - just a suggestion of course, not a command


Or you two bullies can simply PM each other :001_rolleyes:


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Knightofalbion said:


> Respecting the living? Respecting the dead? Surely most important to respect oneself..
> 
> The hateful, spiteful things that have been said (here and elsewhere) ...
> 
> ...


Buddha said...



> Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

nutty said:


> Done to Death...:Yawn:


*Why bother coming onto a thread YOU are not interested in? Is this your way of asking for the thread to be closed? if so, why?*


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Feel free to pop me on ignore if your bored, or if that's a bit extreme just don't bother to read the thread! - :


but that would make it boring

look at Janice an me bessy mates really
You'd never believe it on here though!


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> Buddha said...


*The ONLY ones showing anger are the MT supporters.*


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

nutty said:


> Or you two bullies can simply PM each other :001_rolleyes:


I take GREAT offence at being called a bully!

I am not the person here who has accused other members of being vile, or shameful or disgusting or disrespectful.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

nutty said:


> Or you two bullies can simply PM each other :001_rolleyes:


Who has been bullied? It seems on this thread there have been an awful lot of accusations about disrespect, hatred, bitterness (was vile, scum on this thread or the other one?), yet those making the accusations can't see that those who are being accused are acting with more dignity than themselves.

Seems like most people believe respect is compulsory when applied to them, no matter how rude they are to others.


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

myshkin said:


> Who has been bullied? It seems on this thread there have been an awful lot of accusations about disrespect, hatred, bitterness (was vile, scum on this thread or the other one?), yet those making the accusations can't see that those who are being accused are acting with more dignity than themselves.
> 
> Seems like most people believe respect is compulsory when applied to them, no matter how rude they are to others.


vile was on the other one. Cant remember who posted about the scum, but I do remember who posted about the VILE, DISGUSTING ... and it wasnt those who were anti-thatcher.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *The ONLY ones showing anger are the MT supporters.*


I'm not seeing no anger
Just a few raised heckles
From both sides

Think is still qualifies to be called a 'healthy debate"


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> vile was on the other one. Cant remember who posted about the scum, but I do remember who posted about the VILE, DISGUSTING ... and it wasnt those who were anti-thatcher.


Oh dear!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> I take GREAT offence at being called a bully!
> 
> I am not the person here who has accused other members of being vile, or shameful or disgusting or disrespectful.


A bully! who sez you're a bully


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Who has been bullied? It seems on this thread there have been an awful lot of accusations about disrespect, hatred, bitterness (was vile, scum on this thread or the other one?), yet those making the accusations can't see that those who are being accused are acting with more dignity than themselves.
> 
> Seems like most people believe respect is compulsory when applied to them, no matter how rude they are to others.


Im getting scurred again


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I thought this debate had gone quite well  - I dont feel any anger towards the people who have a different opinion on this matter ...thats their right to have that opinion - I dont see anyone being bullied either just an exchange of opinions ...


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> I thought this debate had gone quite well  - I dont feel any anger towards the people who have a different opinion on this matter ...thats their right to have that opinion - I dont see anyone being bullied either just an exchange of opinions ...


That's coz you n me are adults Suzy


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Suzy we are on page 69 now
You still got your secret weapon:biggrin5:
the one everyone is envious of


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> I thought this debate had gone quite well  - I dont feel any anger towards the people who have a different opinion on this matter ...thats their right to have that opinion - I dont see anyone being bullied either just an exchange of opinions ...


I couldnt agree more - but then those accusing me of being the bully would expect that. 

I've repped several members who's views oppose mine, and put a post publicly about another member who has managed to continue the debate in a mature and adult manner. The debate has been enjoyable, crossing verbal swords with well mannered people who can sustain their end of the argument intelligently and eloquently. Kudos to those members. :thumbup1:


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

ps
sorry for lowering the tone!
BUT in my defence I couldn't have done it on my own


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> The debate has been enjoyable, crossing verbal swords with well mannered people who can sustain their end of the argument intelligently and eloquently. Kudos to those members. :thumbup1:


On that would be me then!


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *The ONLY ones showing anger are the MT supporters.*


*kettle.....black.......pot......calling*


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DT said:


> Suzy we are on page 69 now
> You still got your secret weapon:biggrin5:
> the one everyone is envious of


Took me a minute !


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> On that would be me then!


you nearly got me in the beginning!!! Very nearly made me bite!!

Then I had a look at your other posts....

and realised!


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> Buddha said...


*
"Watch who you're calling fat ...Big nose!"*


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> I thought this debate had gone quite well  - I dont feel any anger towards the people who have a different opinion on this matter ...thats their right to have that opinion - I dont see anyone being bullied either just an exchange of opinions ...


*lol suzy you know me, i'll always stand for what i believe and won't waver to please anyone.
As for bullying, well ya gotta laugh.
I don't think i've said one disrespectful word to anyone on this thread.Unlike others.*


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

lol I see no bullying, just strong views. I'll leave a sanitary pad by the door to soak up any tears :shrug: ... god knows Ive been going thru em  lol.. my god... I blame DT for this intellectual post.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> The strike was legal by the NUM rules


but not by any real rules


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> I thought this debate had gone quite well  - I dont feel any anger towards the people who have a different opinion on this matter ...thats their right to have that opinion - I dont see anyone being bullied either just an exchange of opinions ...


I thought on the whole we have been well behaved and played nicely - must have done as its not been closed or edited that I can recall 

What are we going to talk about now though


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> I thought on the whole we have been well behaved and played nicely - must have done as its not been closed or edited that I can recall
> 
> What are we going to talk about now though


looks like it will be back to the benefits threads


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> lol.. my god... I blame DT for this intellectual post.


:devil: You noticed my new style then, practicing for my new role!
OF MODERATOR


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

DT said:


> :devil: You noticed my new style then, practicing for my new role!
> OF MODERATOR


I cant think of anyone else more fitted to the role, you have my vote


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> I thought on the whole we have been well behaved and played nicely - must have done as its not been closed or edited that I can recall
> 
> What are we going to talk about now though


*Now have i ever let you lot down yet? I will find something for everyone to chew over. But not today eh? *


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> I cant think of anyone else more fitted to the role, you have my vote


 if EVER that day came it would be like the bubonic plague
everyone would jump ship


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

I have to say it has been a brilliant debate by everyone  

It's helped take my mind off what has been an horrendous week, so thank you everyone


----------



## Waterlily (Apr 18, 2010)

DT said:


> if EVER that day came it would be like the bubonic plague
> everyone would jump ship


Only ones jumping would be the rats onboard the ship... In seriousness.. you'd be a good mod


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MissShelley said:


> I have to say it has been a brilliant debate by everyone
> 
> It's helped take my mind off what has been an horrendous week, so thank you everyone


Agree with you Shelley!
whoever started the thread - well done!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

DT said:


> Agree with you Shelley!
> whoever started the thread - well done!


OMG! Think I am in need of urgent medical treatment


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Waterlily said:


> Only ones jumping would be the rats onboard the ship... In seriousness.. you'd be a good mod


Id eat to many members WL


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Now have i ever let you lot down yet? I will find something for everyone to chew over. But not today eh? *





MissShelley said:


> I have to say it has been a brilliant debate by everyone
> 
> It's helped take my mind off what has been an horrendous week, so thank you everyone


Agree it certainly has so big thank you to Janice :thumbup: (I liked your gardening one too but unless I missed it you didn't add the promised current photo


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

DT said:


> OMG! Think I am in need of urgent medical treatment


Lie down in a dark room quick!  The fever will pass soon enough!!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

This feels like a PF group hug, all this patting on backs for a debate well debated!


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

MissShelley said:


> I have to say it has been a brilliant debate by everyone
> 
> It's helped take my mind off what has been an horrendous week, so thank you everyone


But I have still not finished knitting my sock!


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> Agree it certainly has so big thank you to Janice :thumbup: (I liked your gardening one too but unless I missed it you didn't add the promised current photo


*Ok i confess, i haven't got round to it yet but i PROMISE i will at the weekend. That way you will see the before and after.
My light hearted threads don't seem to go anywhere.*


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

Waterlily said:


> Only ones jumping would be the rats onboard the ship... In seriousness.. you'd be a good mod


*Yeah.....*


----------



## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

nutty said:


> But I have still not finished knitting my sock!


Ya better get a wriggle on and knit like the clappers then! :biggrin5: You have an hour, time starts now!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

poohdog said:


> *Yeah.....*


This took me ages to get...I am such a thicko!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> This took me ages to get...I am such a thicko!


We noticed


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

myshkin said:


> This took me ages to get...I am such a thicko!





DT said:


> We noticed


Thank feck for that! I was about to report this thread because I thought someone had hi-jacked DTs account - but she's back to normal now  :lol:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> Thank feck for that! I was about to report this thread because I thought someone had hi-jacked DTs account - but she's back to normal now  :lol:


Oh! its official then
Im *NORMA*L


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Nice to see a good thread go down hill as per usual. ENJOY.*


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Nice to see a good thread go down hill as per usual. ENJOY.*


and why would that be then?
do you see yourself as superior ?
coz you are one sad F***
NOW it can go downhill just as quick as you like! saddo!


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> but not by any real rules


Oh right - the Thatcher supporters have moved on from re-writing the sixth commandment and have now begun re-writing the laws of the land then?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

And gonna apologize to the genuine good posters on here who can debate, irrespective of any past differences!

Just some sad folk cant!
Any you DARE to call MT a witch, coz you lady hold the crown for that!
NO one could EVER follow you there!

me gone!

night
xx


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> looks like it will be back to the benefits threads


Oooh yeah - we can discuss how the IMF have warned that the cuts are too austere! Plenty of mileage there!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Spellweaver said:


> Oooh yeah - we can discuss how the IMF have warned that the cuts are too austere! Plenty of mileage there!


ooh and all on osborne! My current dartboard beau!

Love this!!!

Don't Stop Me Now - YouTube

*WARNING! contains swearing, so not suitable for the workplace!*


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> ooh and all on osborne! My current dartboard beau!
> 
> Love this!!!
> 
> ...


wimp! cant you handle a crossbow
or a harpoon even


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> wimp! cant you handle a crossbow
> or a harpoon even


I could learn! :devil:... but might be too fast. Death by dartboard would be slower 

and before you tell me I am now threatening the life of the twonk...no I'm not... really..... you dont believe me do ya? :biggrin5:


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

JANICE199 said:


> *Nice to see a good thread go down hill as per usual. ENJOY.*


Why has it gone downhill Janice? Just looks like some light hearted banter to me...which in the light of things is just what is needed...come on take a chill pill....


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

I will _never_ understand this forum...


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Tinder said:


> I will _never_ understand this forum...


Not sure exactly what you mean... but... just incase its this....

It seems that the thread has reached an interval (or maybe its natural end), and like duels of old members have set aside differences and metaphorically shaken hands for a fight well fought. I like it, it means that nobody holds grudges, and it also means that we realise our opinions on one single subject do not define the person we are, and ensures no nastiness or animosity gets carried over to other threads.

In the meantime, there is a little light hearted banter - like when cinemas used to play a cartoon halfway through a movie - just to lighten the mood.


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> Not sure exactly what you mean... but... just incase its this....
> 
> It seems that the thread has reached an interval (or maybe its natural end), and like duels of old members have set aside differences and metaphorically shaken hands for a fight well fought. I like it, it means that nobody holds grudges, and it also means that we realise our opinions on one single subject do not define the person we are, and ensures no nastiness or animosity gets carried over to other threads.
> 
> In the meantime, there is a little light hearted banter - like when cinemas used to play a cartoon halfway through a movie - just to lighten the mood.


I dunno...I've just gone to knit a sock :001_rolleyes:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Tinder said:


> I will _never_ understand this forum...


Me neither


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

DT said:


> Me neither


thought you'd gone?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Not sure exactly what you mean... but... just incase its this....
> 
> It seems that the thread has reached an interval (or maybe its natural end), and like duels of old members have set aside differences and metaphorically shaken hands for a fight well fought. I like it, it means that nobody holds grudges, and it also means that we realise our opinions on one single subject do not define the person we are, and ensures no nastiness or animosity gets carried over to other threads.
> 
> In the meantime, there is a little light hearted banter - like when cinemas used to play a cartoon halfway through a movie - just to lighten the mood.


Nah stuff that!
I found another ' potentially' more entertaining thread
you coming or what..............


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

nutty said:


> I dunno...I've just gone to knit a sock :001_rolleyes:


now just remember not to get carried away like last time!










:biggrin5:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> now just remember not to get carried away like last time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like your socks


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

DT said:


> I like your socks


TA! nutty knitted em for me!


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> now just remember not to get carried away like last time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OMG! I better stop!


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

The original Onesie


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Not sure exactly what you mean... but... just incase its this....
> 
> It seems that the thread has reached an interval (or maybe its natural end), and like duels of old members have set aside differences and metaphorically shaken hands for a fight well fought. I like it, it means that nobody holds grudges, and it also means that we realise our opinions on one single subject do not define the person we are, and ensures no nastiness or animosity gets carried over to other threads.
> 
> In the meantime, there is a little light hearted banter - like when cinemas used to play a cartoon halfway through a movie - just to lighten the mood.


Well it was the bit where Janice got called a sad F*** that i didn't get? Was that the light hearted bit? Dont understand this forum and its people, their relationships like you do so to me that read as a bit shocking. 
Call me naive but...am i allowed to call people sad ****s? 'Cause if i am that's great and I'll hang around a bit longer.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Tinder said:


> Well it was the bit where Janice got called a sad old F*** that i didn't get? Was that the light hearted bit? Dont understand this forum and its people, their relationships like you do so to me that read as a bit shocking.
> Call me naive but...am i allowed to call people sad old ****s? 'Cause if i am that's great and I'll hang around a bit longer.


T'will all come right in the end Tinder trust me!
There are some old dinorsoors on here that ilock horns now and again but its all harmless really! !


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

nutty said:


> The original Onesie


never mind onesie! More like the original cookie monster!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Tinder said:


> Well it was the bit where Janice got called a sad F*** that i didn't get? Was that the light hearted bit? Dont understand this forum and its people, their relationships like you do so to me that read as a bit shocking.
> Call me naive but...am i allowed to call people sad ****s? 'Cause if i am that's great and I'll hang around a bit longer.


missed that bit I admit.

DT that was not nice


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

So you've gotta build up history with someone before you can call them a sad ****? How long for? In weeks and months exactly ?  Only asking 'cause I always seem to get into trouble when I try to be honest and say what i feel. Just wondering why that doesn't apply to everyone. Does it depend what letter your user name begins with or something whether the mods come down on you like a ton of bricks or laugh it off as banter?


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

JAChihuahua said:


> missed that bit I admit.
> 
> DT that was not nice


A sort of 3 tier commode, perhaps :001_rolleyes:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Tinder said:


> So you've gotta build up history with someone before you can call them a sad ****? How long for? In weeks and months exactly ?  Only asking 'cause I always seem to get into trouble when I try to be honest and say what i feel. Just wondering why that doesn't apply to everyone. Does it depend what letter your user name begins with or something whether the mods come down on you like a ton of bricks or laugh it off as banter?


Oh dear! they setting the mods on me now
Im scurred


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

nutty said:


> A sort of 3 tier commode, perhaps :001_rolleyes:


Oi!
you missed innocent until proven guilty


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

DT said:


> Oi!
> you missed innocent until proven guilty


No..I'm afraid its the 3 tiered commode for you, and you dont get to choose who your other roomies are


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*LMFAO at the morons on this forum that follow the crowd like lost sheep. Now go back to your secret group, rethink and come back with something half intelligent.
Oh and for those that don't know, yes this little click DO have a group. FACT.
It's a sad day when people can't debate every day topics without resulting to personal abuse.
This thread will no doubt be closed shortly because I HAVE DARED TO RETALIATE.:dita:*


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *LMFAO at the morons on this forum that follow the crowd like lost sheep. Now go back to your secret group, rethink and come back with something half intelligent.
> Oh and for those that don't know, yes this little click DO have a group. FACT.
> It's a sad day when people can't debate every day topics without resulting to personal abuse.
> This thread will no doubt be closed shortly because I HAVE DARED TO RETALIATE.:dita:*


Janice, I'm sorry , I honestly thought it had been intended as lighthearted banter by the poster calling names.... but as its made you feel this way it clearly wasnt.

Apologies for getting it wrong.

Still..... did you like my cookie monster? Nutty is going to knit me one! :biggrin5:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *LMFAO at the morons on this forum that follow the crowd like lost sheep. Now go back to your secret group, rethink and come back with something half intelligent.
> Oh and for those that don't know, yes this little click DO have a group. FACT.
> It's a sad day when people can't debate every day topics without resulting to personal abuse.
> This thread will no doubt be closed shortly because I HAVE DARED TO RETALIATE.:dita:*


I can debate
I don't have a 'gang'
neither am I part of a GROUP
And I aint sly either!
what I say I say for all to see! I don't do it by feedback pms and facebook!
Time you grew up janice!
Folk can see thro you


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> Janice, I'm sorry , I honestly thought it had been intended as lighthearted banter by the poster calling names.... but as its made you feel this way it clearly wasnt.
> 
> Apologies for getting it wrong.
> 
> Still..... did you like my cookie monster? Nutty is going to knit me one! :biggrin5:


*Please don't be sorry, you have done nothing wrong. If anything, you and Spellweaver make my posts worth while. I gather we like a debate, good or bad.*


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Please don't be sorry, you have done nothing wrong. If anything, you and Spellweaver make my posts worth while. I gather we like a debate, good or bad.*


I LOVE a good debate, Ive even been known to stand up against my beliefs just so that a balanced argument is heard!

This thread has been so worthwhile and so rewarding, I dont want it to end with animosity - from anyone.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> Janice, I'm sorry , I honestly thought it had been intended as lighthearted banter by the poster calling names.... but as its made you feel this way it clearly wasnt.
> 
> Apologies for getting it wrong.
> 
> Still..... did you like my cookie monster? Nutty is going to knit me one! :biggrin5:


JA!
no need to say sorry to no one!
This goes back a bloody long way!
Just some are not adult enough to let bygones be bygones
as this thread demonstrates!
SHAME!


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

you know....


there is room on the naughty step for both of you!!!!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JAChihuahua said:


> you know....
> 
> there is room on the naughty step for both of you!!!!


You going put Jan n me in in the same room together
I'm scurred


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

DT said:


> You going put Jan n me in in the same room together
> I'm scurred


I would pay good money to see that!!


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

gorgeous said:


> I would pay good money to see that!!


*Don't waste your money i will win hands down..and on my own.*


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Don't waste your money i will win hands down..and on my own.*


*Dreamer! nothing but a dreamer*


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Don't waste your money i will win hands down..and on my own.*


come on then Jan show us what ya got


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Handbags at the ready!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

NO zimmer frames allowed


----------



## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

For the record...I have no group either...only got 2 friends to my name :mellow:

However, I do have a sofa if anyone wants to hide behind ...:001_rolleyes:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

nutty said:


> For the record...I have no group either...only got 2 friends to my name :mellow:
> 
> However, I do have a sofa if anyone wants to hide behind ...:001_rolleyes:


fanks


----------



## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

I will bring the pop corn and lambrusco!!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Ladies. You are too old for this shite, but you are never too old to have your legs slapped. :hand:



JAChihuahua said:


> ooh and all on osborne! My current dartboard beau!
> 
> Love this!!!
> 
> ...


That's made my night. Especially liked the guitar interval :laugh:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

gorgeous said:


> I will bring the pop corn and lambrusco!!


give the lambrusco to my opponent


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

myshkin said:


> Ladies. You are too old for this shite, but you are never too old to have your legs slapped. :hand:
> 
> That's made my night. Especially liked the guitar interval :laugh:


glad you liked it! I loved their cameron common people one before the elections, and when I saw this I almost piddled my pants!


----------



## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Don't waste your money i will win hands down..and on my own.*


One for you Janice...


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

nutty said:


> For the record...I have no group either...only got 2 friends to my name :mellow:
> 
> However, I do have a sofa if anyone wants to hide behind ...:001_rolleyes:


*Stick around long enough and you might just get an invite.*


----------



## Lel (Mar 21, 2012)

*has last word on PF's final MT thread* ... ?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Lel said:


> *has last word on PF's final MT thread* ... ?


Don't fink so:biggrin5:


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> ooh and all on osborne! My current dartboard beau!
> 
> Love this!!!
> 
> ...


Love it! Many a true word spoken in jest - but how *do* we stop the little s--t? Ah well, that's a subject for a different thread ...


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spellweaver said:


> Love it! Many a true word spoken in jest - but how *do* we stop the little s--t? Ah well, that's a subject for a different thread ...


You gonna referee then Val


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

You still her Jan!
though you were gonna whoop me
Dreamer, nothing but a dreamer


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

DT said:


> You still her Jan!
> though you were gonna whoop me
> Dreamer, nothing but a dreamer


all the lightweights are tucked up in a romper suit and thumb sucking


----------



## FREE SPIRIT (Jul 8, 2009)

*OK, Just finished reading through all the posts, which took hours. :crazy:
Nice to see that for the most part, people remained respectful of each other regardless of differing opinions. Whether i agree or disagree, it's always nice to see a healthy debate. :thumbsup:*


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *Oh you are so wrong. I had the greatest of respect for my father..had you been here longer you would have known that. But i'll forgive you for jumping to conclusions.*


I really can't see where my length of tenure on PF is relevant. And if I was to read every post on the forum it would take me forever, they are not all that interesting.

It was not a conclusion Janice it was a judgement, when someone calls their own grandmother a 'cow' (you take your genes from her gene pool) it proves a distinct lack of respect.


----------



## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

FREE SPIRIT said:


> *OK, Just finished reading through all the posts, which took hours. :crazy:
> Nice to see that for the most part, people remained respectful of each other regardless of differing opinions. Whether i agree or disagree, it's always nice to see a healthy debate. :thumbsup:*


Noooo! Thread killer! It's usually me..... and I'll bet it's me again......


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> I really can't see where my length of tenure on PF is relevant. And if I was to read every post on the forum it would take me forever, they are not all that interesting.
> 
> It was not a conclusion Janice it was a judgement, when someone calls their own grandmother a 'cow' (you take your genes from her gene pool) it proves a distinct lack of respect.


*I never made a secret of the fact i thought she was a cow when she was alive.It was the truth. I give respect where respect is due.
As for your length of time on the forum, it means nothing to me, i was making a statement.*


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> I really can't see where my length of tenure on PF is relevant. And if I was to read every post on the forum it would take me forever, they are not all that interesting.
> 
> It was not a conclusion Janice it was a judgement, when someone calls their own grandmother a 'cow' (you take your genes from her gene pool) it proves a distinct lack of respect.


I think Janice probably meant had you been here long enough and maybe knew a little of her history regarding her family then you may not have jumped to the conclusion you did ....none of us know others private family history ....and whilst I dont agree with bad taste at funerals etc I do still think everyone is entitled to have an opinion of someone - how you act on that of course is up to you.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

and now the pack turn on each other.....lol


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> and now the pack turn on each other.....lol


*No pack here.*


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> and now the pack turn on each other.....lol


I dont turn on anyone thank you very much ..stop fanning the flames


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

janice199 said:


> no pack here.


*let he who is without sin cast the first stone
*


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> i dont turn on anyone thank you very much ..stop fanning the flames


no smoke without fire


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> no smoke without fire


for god sake what is your problem?


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> for god sake what is your problem?


It would take pages to answer that question, Janice, the list is endless!


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> and now the pack turn on each other.....lol


   What pack? Who? What have I missed?


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> What pack? Who? What have I missed?


I think CB is confused with thread in dog chat maybe??


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> and now the pack turn on each other.....lol


You have commented on this thread so must be part of the pack too then


----------



## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> no smoke without fire


Now your just


----------



## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I think CB is confused with thread in dog chat maybe??


Oh dear - I am so slow on the uptake this morning - I was halfway through the threads in Dog Chat before the penny dropped what you meant! :lol: (I'm blaming the side effects from the painkillers :lol


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

suzy93074 said:


> I think CB is confused with thread in dog chat maybe??


I think he likes to think of himself as a lone wolf, when the reality is more like this:










Annoying, noisy and unnecessary character which ruined a perfectly good show...

:laugh:


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> It was not a conclusion Janice it was a judgement, when someone calls their own grandmother a 'cow' (you take your genes from her gene pool) it proves a distinct lack of respect.


To be fair, my grandmother was a cow, my mum is known affectionately as "the old witch" and I'm proud to carry their genes... i wouldnt have the tenacity or spirit to deal with situations like this thread if i didn't.

Judge me how you will, but part of that genetic legacy means i couldn't give a monkeys whether you think I'm disrespectful or not. I'm proud of my heritage, the morals instilled into me, and that i was always taught to stand up for what i believe in, so long as i accepted others would have different opinion (and that was ok too). In short... I'm happy in my own skin.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Spellweaver said:


> Oh dear - I am so slow on the uptake this morning - I was halfway through the threads in Dog Chat before the penny dropped what you meant! :lol: (I'm blaming the side effects from the painkillers :lol


Awww bless ya  lol made me giggle though  xxx



myshkin said:


> I think he likes to think of himself as a lone wolf, when the reality is more like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol::lol::lol: love it!!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> To be fair, my grandmother was a cow, my mum is known affectionately as "the old witch" and I'm proud to carry their genes... i wouldnt have the tenacity or spirit to deal with situations like this thread if i didn't.
> 
> Judge me how you will, but part of that genetic legacy means i couldn't give a monkeys whether you think I'm disrespectful or not. I'm proud of my heritage, the morals instilled into me, and that i was always taught to stand up for what i believe in, so long as i accepted others would have different opinion (and that was ok too). In short... I'm happy in my own skin.


*pmsl..if it hadn't been for the fact you can have a good debate, you could have been my sister.:lol::lol:*


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *pmsl..if it hadn't been for the fact you can have a good debate, you could have been my sister.:lol::lol:*


Two Janices!!!!:yikes::yikes:xxx


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> Two Janices!!!!:yikes::yikes:xxx


Just imagine! :smilewinkgrin:

I don't have Janice talent for ferreting out new threads though!


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

suzy93074 said:


> Two Janices!!!!:yikes::yikes:xxx


*lol suzy trust me, they DID break the mold when i was born.
Even my dad use to say, " she's allright until she opens her mouth.*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *lol suzy trust me, they DID break the mold when i was born.
> Even my dad use to say, " she's allright until she opens her mouth.*


My dad still describes me as "her with the gob"


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> My dad still describes me as "her with the gob"


*I'm so laughing..But if you are anything like me, you still respect your dad.*


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *I'm so laughing..But if you are anything like me, you still respect your dad.*


Yes, i was defiantly a daddy's girl


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

JAChihuahua said:


> Yes, i was defiantly a daddy's girl


*I'm one of 9 kids..And it wasn't until after my dad died i found out the others all thought i was " daddy's" favourite.*


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