# Pick yourself up a nice new collar at Crufts



## Elmo the Bear

Guaranteed that the metal wont stain your dog's coat.... no guarantee that the blood wont 

LuvMyDog Worldwide Ultra Plus Prong / Pinch Collars by Herm Sprenger. Ultra Plus martingale, ClicLock buckle, snap hook & quick release prong collars Curogan, Black Stainless Steel, Chrome & Nickel plate shipped to USA & worldwide from our UK centre.


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## dandogman

Elmo the Bear said:


> Guaranteed that the metal wont stain your dog's coat.... no guarantee that the blood wont
> 
> LuvMyDog Worldwide Ultra Plus Prong / Pinch Collars by Herm Sprenger. Ultra Plus martingale, ClicLock buckle, snap hook & quick release prong collars Curogan, Black Stainless Steel, Chrome & Nickel plate shipped to USA & worldwide from our UK centre.


If used properly there should be no blood involved


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## smokeybear

Funny they were not selling them on their stall last year and Crufts has an anti pinch collar policy.

Another nasty rumour spread by those who fail to check the veracity of their sources instead of posting the truth.

Hey ho.


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## Spellweaver

Aaaannnnd ........... we're off! The annual Petforum "attacking owners and exhibitors of show dogs" season has officially started.

The anti-Crufts, anti-pedigree, armchair critics who have no idea of what they are talking about are now crawling out of the woodwork. Gird your loins, owners and exhibitors of pedigree show dogs - for the run up to Crufts and a couple of weeks after we are going to be targetted by people who have never attended a dog show in their lives but who nevertheless _know_ we are all cruel owners with unhealthy, malformed, unhappy dogs who hate showing and who are never allowed to be "real" dogs.


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## Guest

I love shopping at dog shows. All sorts of weird and wonderful things to browse through and discover. I certainly dont feel obligated to buy anything, and I certainly dont hold the dog show itself accountable for what the vendors sell.

All AKC shows also have a no prong collar policy. Also no head collars allowed, and body harnesses only if they clip at the top - none of the no-pulls allowed. And no e-collars either.


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## Bijou

The kennel club have issued a clear statement that they do not allow the sale or promotion of prong collars at Crufts....this is a non story


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## Elmo the Bear

The company in question sells collars with prongs; you cannot use something with prongs "properly". I've had the lecture about "because you don't know what you're doing" and it was a crock from start to finish. Anything that needs aggression or pain to train a dog means the person using it doesn't know what they're doing and should seek professional help.

Saying they're not selling them at crufts is a little like saying we've invited some poisonous snakes but they've promised not to bite anyone.


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## Sleeping_Lion

Elmo the Bear said:


> The company in question sells collars with prongs; you cannot use something with prongs "properly". I've had the lecture about "because you don't know what you're doing" and it was a crock from start to finish. Anything that needs aggression or pain to train a dog means the person using it doesn't know what they're doing and should seek professional help.
> 
> Saying they're not selling them at crufts is a little like saying we've invited some poisonous snakes but they've promised not to bite anyone.


What a surprise you're anti Crufts!


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## Elmo the Bear

Sleeping_Lion said:


> What a surprise you're anti Crufts!


Why should it be a surprise I'm anti prong collars; guess you're in favour then?


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## Sleeping_Lion

Elmo the Bear said:


> Why should it be a surprise I'm anti prong collars; guess you're in favour then?


I didn't mention prong collars, I said you're anti Crufts.


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## Spellweaver

Elmo the Bear said:


> The company in question sells collars with prongs; you cannot use something with prongs "properly". I've had the lecture about "because you don't know what you're doing" and it was a crock from start to finish. Anything that needs aggression or pain to train a dog means the person using it doesn't know what they're doing and should seek professional help.
> 
> Saying they're not selling them at crufts is a little like saying we've invited some poisonous snakes but they've promised not to bite anyone.


What utter rubbish. Saying they are not selling pronged collars at Crufts is actually saying - well, that they are not selling pronged collars at Crufts. *No-one* is selling pronged collars at Crufts because the KC have forbidden it.

Trying to pretend that visitors to anywhere that pronged collars are forbidden are supporting the use of pronged collars is like saying anyone on a march against the government is supporting the government. If the worst criticism you can level at Crufts is that they have refused to allow the sale of pronged collars, you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel in your futile crusade against pedigrees.


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## Elmo the Bear

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I didn't mention prong collars, I said you're anti Crufts.


Yes I noticed you'd avoided answering. I'm not anti crufts I just think its a little ridiculous (like Strictly but without the TV coverage); when they start supporting companies that sell these devices they become a little less ridiculous and a little more dangerous.


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## Spellweaver

For everyone who reads this thread - here is the real truth rather than what passes for truth in Elmo's warped universe:
_
*Trade stand holders at Kennel Club events*
The Kennel Club does not support the use of negative training methods, does not allow any of the negative devices listed below to be sold or advertised at Kennel Club organised events and does not endorse any such products._

_The following information is outlined in our Trade Stand Holder's Manual:

Please note sale or promotion of the following products is strictly prohibited:

All electrical shock training devices
Prong collars
Hushers
Show stackers
Dog-o-matic washing machines.

It should also be noted that dogs should not be adorned with items of clothing or accessories unless it is for purely functional purposes, such as to keep a dog warm. Anything which could potentially cause a dog frustration, distress, irritation or harm cannot be endorsed by the Kennel Club or advertised in any of its publications.'

Companies that choose to take a stand at one of our events are prohibited from selling or taking any orders for products that breach any of our terms and conditions. In accordance with the Trade Stand Holder's Manual, the promotion of specified products is prohibited and stand holders may be asked to provide a written guarantee that this regulation will be adhered to.

The Kennel Club ensures all trade stands meet the terms of agreement and do not break any policies throughout the event_
Trade stand holders at Kennel Club events

In other words, negative training methods are not allowed to be sold at ANY KC dog show, including Crufts.


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## Elmo the Bear

Spellweaver said:


> What utter rubbish. Saying they are not selling pronged collars at Crufts is actually saying - well, that they are not selling pronged collars at Crufts. *No-one* is selling pronged collars at Crufts because the KC have forbidden it.
> 
> Trying to pretend that visitors to anywhere that pronged collars are forbidden are supporting the use of pronged collars is like saying anyone on a march against the government is supporting the government. If the worst criticism you can level at Crufts is that they have refused to allow the sale of pronged collars, you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel in your futile crusade against pedigrees.


Yes. great... what? The company that crufts are supporting sell prong collars... simply because they are not selling them at crufts doesn't make the fact that crufts supports companies who do sell them right. Your argument (as ever) is pretty silly.

If someone goes on a march against the government but secretly supports them and votes for them, that is the same as what is happening with these collars and crufts. "Our friends do bad things, we just dont let them do them at our show"


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## Elmo the Bear

If you click the link I posted it takes you to the website of the company that the KC and crufts are supporting... they sell prong collars... its not difficult to figure out even for you..

... but then if you're so in favour of supporting companies that sell these devices, at least be honest enough to say so.


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## Sleeping_Lion

How are Crufts supporting them? Having looked at the stall price for Crufts, it's not cheap, and Crufts do not endorse the companies or their products sold at Crufts, it's very much the other way around. They ban a number of things from being sold, but it doesn't automatically mean the companies or the rest of the products on sale are therefore fully endorsed and supported by the KC. They also sell junk food at Crufts, as well as a number of other less tasteful products. 

Typical, predictable post I'm afraid.


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## Elmo the Bear

yep.. still ducking the issue


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## Spellweaver

Elmo the Bear said:


> yep.. still ducking the issue


Explaining the truth to you is not avoiding the issue. It is telling you that you are wrong. NO type of negative reinforcement is allowed to be sold either at Crufts *or at any other KC dog show.*

I keep repeating the bit in bold because, along with other detractors of the pedigree scene, you seem to forget that Crufts is merely one show of many during the year. Every year around this time you all pop out of your hole, take a ridiculous pop at pedigrees and Crufts, and then immediately forget about the subject until this time next year. Wonderful indication of the actual depth of your feelings, that you feel it's only important at this time of year, huh?


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## Elmo the Bear

Spellweaver said:


> Explaining the truth to you is not avoiding the issue. It is telling you that you are wrong. NO type of negative reinforcement is allowed to be sold either at Crufts *or at any other KC dog show.*
> 
> I keep repeating the bit in bold because, along with other detractors of the pedigree scene, you seem to forget that Crufts is merely one show of many during the year. Every year around this time you all pop out of your hole, take a ridiculous pop at pedigrees and Crufts, and then immediately forget about the subject until this time next year. Wonderful indication of the actual depth of your feelings, that you feel it's only important at this time of year, huh?


Yep... still ducking so I guess you're in favour ?

I'm anti prong collars all year... I'd oppose the promotion of companies that sell them at any show but (and this one seems to have passed you right by) I can only oppose such companies at crufts when its on) duh

The fact you support these companies with such passion. albeit baseless, speaks volumes of your depth of feeling on the issue.

And who mentioned pedigrees? The weaver doth protest too much methinks


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## Sleeping_Lion

Elmo the Bear said:


> Yep... still ducking so I guess you're in favour ?
> 
> I'm anti prong collars all year... I'd oppose the promotion of companies that sell them at any show but (and this one seems to have passed you right by) I can only oppose such companies at crufts when its on) duh
> 
> The fact you support these companies with such passion. albeit baseless, speaks volumes of your depth of feeling on the issue.
> 
> And who mentioned pedigrees? The weaver doth protest too much methinks


If not pedigrees, why mention Crufts, why not just post a link to the company selling the product.

Anyone else who posted a load of [email protected] just to stir trouble would be banned.


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## Spellweaver

Elmo the Bear said:


> I'm anti prong collars all year... I'd oppose the promotion of companies that sell them at any show but (and this one seems to have passed you right by) I can only oppose such companies at crufts when its on) duh


If you are anti-prong collars all year, why aren't you opposing them at shows other than Crufts all year round? duh And if you were really against them and wanted to protest about them, surely it would be more beneficial to protest against an organisation that was actually allowing their sale? again, duh.



Elmo the Bear said:


> The fact you support these companies with such passion. albeit baseless, speaks volumes of your depth of feeling on the issue.


I've not supported these companies - merely pointed out to you that prong collars are not allowed to be sold at ANY KC dog show. You seem to have a great difficulty in understanding that.



Elmo the Bear said:


> And who mentioned pedigrees? The weaver doth protest too much methinks


Yeah, right - how about protesting against prong collars at venues other than a pedigree dog show where their sale is banned? THEN your argument that you are not using this as a very weak weapon in your mindless crusade against pedigrees might have some credence.


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## Elmo the Bear

Because the company is being allowed to promote its services at crufts and that is run by an organisation that, apparently, is opposed to prong collars.

As far as I'm aware, there are many dogs at crufts who are not "show" dogs. Assistance dogs, agility etc... quite why you needed to jump to the defence of pedigrees when they were not mentioned is . . . . predictable.

Why would you want a post highlighting that the KC and crufts is allowing a company that sells prong collars to openly trade at its show, banned, unless of course you thought it was OK for the company to trade and therefore, by default, sell prong collars.

There are many people opposed to the use of prong collars and simply because two of you have an issue and clearly support their use (Ive asked a few times on this thread for you to come out and say) doesn't mean that people shouldn't know that a company that sells prong collars will be at crufts.


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## Elmo the Bear

Spellweaver said:


> If you are anti-prong collars all year, why aren't you opposing them at shows other than Crufts all year round? duh And if you were really against them and wanted to protest about them, surely it would be more beneficial to protest against an organisation that was actually allowing their sale? again, duh.
> 
> I've not supported these companies - merely pointed out to you that prong collars are not allowed to be sold at ANY KC dog show. You seem to have a great difficulty in understanding that.
> 
> Yeah, right - how about protesting against prong collars at venues other than a pedigree dog show where their sale is banned? THEN your argument that you are not using this as a very weak weapon in your mindless crusade against pedigrees might have some credence.


You do need a lay down don't you. Who says I'm not protesting elsewhere? You have no idea, do you? Are you saying other KC shows support their sale? please do let me know.

I'm protesting at an organisation (crufts/KC) that is supporting a company that sells them and I also protest to the company.

How about I get to protest wherever I like?


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## Sleeping_Lion

Elmo the Bear said:


> Because the company is being allowed to promote its services at crufts and that is run by an organisation that, apparently, is opposed to prong collars.
> 
> As far as I'm aware, there are many dogs at crufts who are not "show" dogs. Assistance dogs, agility etc... quite why you needed to jump to the defence of pedigrees when they were not mentioned is . . . . predictable.
> 
> Why would you want a post highlighting that the KC and crufts is allowing a company that sells prong collars to openly trade at its show, banned, unless of course you thought it was OK for the company to trade and therefore, by default, sell prong collars.
> 
> There are many people opposed to the use of prong collars and simply because two of you have an issue and clearly support their use (Ive asked a few times on this thread for you to come out and say) doesn't mean that people shouldn't know that a company that sells prong collars will be at crufts.


As has been pointed out numerous times, they are not selling or promoting the use of these collars at Crufts, nor will any other company. Simples


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## Elmo the Bear

But the company does sell prong collars and they are exhibiting at crufts..

also very straightforward.


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## Guest

This thread is insane...

The title says pick yourself up a nice new collar at Crufts with a link to prong collars. 

It was then pointed out, indisputably, that prong collars will NOT be for sale at Crufts. So the title is misleading at best. 

To be fair, its not that Crufts is supporting this particular company, more accurately, this company is supporting Crufts. Im sure they paid a pretty penny to be vendors at the show. Its not like they let folks set up booths for free


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## Elmo the Bear

the title was to draw attention to the fact. The company sells prong collars, the company is at crufts. The link is to the company, the company is at crufts.

I agree, the sale of prong collars is insane.


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## Sleeping_Lion

ouesi said:


> This thread is insane...
> 
> The title says pick yourself up a nice new collar at Crufts with a link to prong collars.
> 
> It was then pointed out, indisputably, that prong collars will NOT be for sale at Crufts. So the title is misleading at best.
> 
> To be fair, its not that Crufts is supporting this particular company, more accurately, this company is supporting Crufts. Im sure they paid a pretty penny to be vendors at the show. Its not like they let folks set up booths for free


Exactly!

And a few pointless words as I need to post a bit more before I press submit.


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## Spellweaver

Elmo the Bear said:


> There are many people opposed to the use of prong collars and simply because two of you have an issue and clearly support their use (Ive asked a few times on this thread for you to come out and say) doesn't mean that people shouldn't know that a company that sells prong collars will be at crufts.


I do not support the use of prong collars or any other negative forms of reinforcement. Is that clear enough for you? (Because you seem to have ignored every other time I've said it - but then, ignoring the truth is what you're good at) Your insistance that I support their use because I have pointed out to you that their sale is banned at Crufts is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

And, once again, the truth you are ingnoring is that this company will not be allowed to promote prong collars at Crufts or any other KC event. Your protest against Crufts is, therefore, invalid.

As for your pretence that you are not using this as an excuse for targetting pedigrees (as you are notorious for so doing on this forum) - show me where you've protested against their use elsewhere and I might believe you.


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## Sleeping_Lion

Elmo the Bear said:


> the title was to draw attention to the fact. The company sells prong collars, the company is at crufts. The link is to the company, the company is at crufts.
> 
> I agree, the sale of prong collars is insane.


What difference does it make that they are at Crufts?

As has been pointed out, neither they, nor any other company will be allowed to sell these collars at Crufts, the mentioning of the show is pointless if you're trying to say that Crufts endorses these collars, when the very opposite is true as they are banning the same of them at any venue linked to KC dog shows.


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## Elmo the Bear

At last (because you didnt say it) one of you is opposed. 


... but you're happy for a company that sells them to be at your dog show.  and I repeat that because no matter how many times i say it, you dont seem to be able to read it.

Anyone genuinely opposed to the use of prong collars can register their protest on the crufts FB page


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## Sleeping_Lion

Elmo the Bear said:


> At last (because you didnt say it) one of you is opposed.
> 
> ... but you're happy for a company that sells them to be at your dog show.


I thought it was everybody's show according to you a few posts back.


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## Elmo the Bear

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I thought it was everybody's show according to you a few posts back.


I didnt say that, you misread (again) I said there were other dogs there, not just pedigrees.... nothing to do with me so not "mine" but "yours".

more importantly. you can protest on the crufts FB page.


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## Spellweaver

Elmo the Bear said:


> At last (because you didnt say it) one of you is opposed.
> 
> ... but you're happy for a company that sells them to be at your dog show.


Oh, it's *my* dog show now is it? Does that mean I get to choose Best in Show?



Elmo the Bear said:


> Anyone genuinely opposed to the use of prong collars can register their protest on the crufts FB page


Where the KC will no doubt explain to you that they have forbiddden the sale of prong collars and any other form of negative training equipment. :laugh:


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## Sleeping_Lion

Elmo the Bear said:


> I didnt say that, you misread (again) I said there were other dogs there, not just pedigrees.... nothing to do with me so not "mine" but "yours".
> 
> more importantly. you can protest on the crufts FB page.


Completely pointless, they are already banning the sale of them at Crufts, funnily enough, already mentioned, several times.

If you're going to ban every company that sells things you don't agree with at venues, there would be very few stalls left.


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## Sleeping_Lion

Since you seem to be labouring the pointless, here's the list of things that are not allowed to be sold on stalls at Crufts:

Trade stand holders at Kennel Club events


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## Guest

Elmo the Bear said:


> the title was to draw attention to the fact. The company sells prong collars, the company is at crufts. The link is to the company, the company is at crufts.
> 
> I agree, the sale of prong collars is insane.


So you deliberately lied in the title to get people to pay attention to the non-story?

If youre anti-prong, and you want to encourage people not to use them, wouldnt it make more sense to:
- post factual articles and research detailing the potential fall-out of using a prong? 
- post alternative equipment and training methods for those seeking ways to control their dogs?
- share educational material on training so that people dont get to the point of reaching for a tool like this in desperation?

You know, be proactive in education. Promote alternatives and effective training instead of simply bashing for the sake of bashing.


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## Elmo the Bear

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Completely pointless, they are already banning the sale of them at Crufts, funnily enough, already mentioned, several times.
> 
> If you're going to ban every company that sells things you don't agree with at venues, there would be very few stalls left.


Good; that way we would have companies who were responsible and didnt sell such items. Its not things "I" dont agree with. its things that are barbaric and inflict pain (even when used "properly")

The fact that let a company who sells them to crufts gives that company and audience and some mild credence. If crufts said, "you can exhibit at our show only if you stop the sale of devices that we publicly say are cruel" they drop prong collars like a shot.


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## Elmo the Bear

ouesi said:


> So you deliberately lied in the title to get people to pay attention to the non-story?
> 
> If youre anti-prong, and you want to encourage people not to use them, wouldnt it make more sense to:
> - post factual articles and research detailing the potential fall-out of using a prong?
> - post alternative equipment and training methods for those seeking ways to control their dogs?
> - share educational material on training so that people dont get to the point of reaching for a tool like this in desperation?
> 
> You know, be proactive in education. Promote alternatives and effective training instead of simply bashing for the sake of bashing.


Thanks for the lecture... its nice to be patronised instead of just ranted at 

You think I'm "bashing" prong collars for the sake of bashing ? .. the rampant defence of this company on this thread is a little worrying.

As I understand it I live in the UK, i have the right to protest so I'm doing that. If you think a company that sells prong collars should be at crufts its your right to think that... its also my right to oppose it.


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## Elmo the Bear

More importantly.. you can protest on the crufts FB page.


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## Guest

Elmo the Bear said:


> More importantly.. you can protest on the crufts FB page.


But... What if Im protesting FB? Because FB allows people who use and sell prongs and e-collars to have pages. And CM! CM has a FB page. So because FB allows folks who use e-collars and prongs and CM to have FB pages, I have to protest FB.

Therefore I cannot protest the non-sale of prong collars on the Crufts FB page.

Sorry....


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## noushka05

Elmo the Bear said:


> Thanks for the lecture... its nice to be patronised instead of just ranted at
> 
> You think I'm "bashing" prong collars for the sake of bashing ? .. the rampant defence of this company on this thread is a little worrying.
> 
> As I understand it I live in the UK, i have the right to protest so I'm doing that. If you think a company that sells prong collars should be at crufts its your right to think that... its also my right to oppose it.


I haven't seen anyone defend this company Elmo - quite the opposite. And I agree with you in theory but there are hundreds of stalls at Crufts, I just don't see how its would be feasible for them to all be scrutinised to see if they usually sell products the KC ban.

I applaud the KC for speaking out against prong & e collars.


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## Elmo the Bear

You can protest about the issue on the Crufts FB page


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## Sleeping_Lion

Or you can accept that the KC has already banned the sale of such items, and stall holders are not allowed to sell or take orders for any of the banned items, and so will not profit, thereby sending out the message that the sale of these items is not acceptable. 

As already mentioned, several times.


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## smokeybear

Elmo the Bear said:


> The company in question sells collars with prongs; you cannot use something with prongs "properly". I've had the lecture about "because you don't know what you're doing" and it was a crock from start to finish. Anything that needs aggression or pain to train a dog means the person using it doesn't know what they're doing and should seek professional help.
> 
> Saying they're not selling them at crufts is a little like saying we've invited some poisonous snakes but they've promised not to bite anyone.


What a load of twaddle.

No doubt you research EVERY single supplier of whatever you buy to ensure that

no animals were harmed
no children were harmed
no people were haremd

before you buy it and if so have boycotted them and the retailers that stock their goods?

There are very few suppliers/retailers/market stalls/people with whom I will agree 100% about everything or can provide evidence that their products and materials used are 100% ethically sourced.

I am certainly not going to boycott a) Crufts due to a downright untruth and b) a trade stand because they sell other things which I do not agree with.

I have not yet seen anyone with a machine gun to anyone's head to force a) entrance to an event at the NEC of b) purchase from a trade stand.

I think you will find most of us are perfectly able to make decisions all by ourselves over all sorts of things without the need for scaremongers spreading untruths.


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## BessieDog

What seems to have escaped the OP's notice is that there are hundreds - actually thousands of dog shows up and down the country every week of the year. And very many not only for pedigree dogs. We have fun and companion shws, obedience, agility, fly ball, dog days out etc etc and trade stalls will be at all these shows! 

Not all are KC licensed, so it's possible this company trades AND SELL at non KC licensed events. 

So why is the OP not looking elsewhere, instead of at a major show where the selling of these items, and the taking orders for them, is most definitely banned?


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## 8tansox

I really cannot believe that this "argument" is still going on...... I personally think if that's all someone has to worry about, whether a stall, that sells prong collars, but not at Crufts, is going to have a stand at the NEC, but not sell the prong collars, nor can they be ordered during the show, really really ought to think about the wider scheme of things. Yes, we all love dogs, yes, we all want to do what's best for our dogs, no, we won't be buying pinch collars, yes, we will be going to crufts, yes, we will be shopping at various stalls, yes, we will come home with all types of stuff, (we won't have prong collars, promise), but in the wider scheme of things, I truly think people have made their point, some have been really good, others are just blatant antagonistic.

Get a grip!


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## Spellweaver

BessieDog said:


> What seems to have escaped the OP's notice is that there are hundreds - actually thousands of dog show up and down the country every week of the year. And very many not only for pedigree dogs. We have fun and companion shws, obedience, agility, fly ball, dog days out etc etc and trade stalls will be at all these shows!
> 
> Not all are KC licensed, so it's possible this company trade AND SELL at non KC licensed events.
> 
> So why is the OP not looking elsewhere, instead of at a major show where the selling of these items, and the taking orders for them, is most definitely banned?


So he can have pop at pedigrees and Crufts. There will be more like him crawling out of the woodwork in the next month or so - it's the same every year and it's always people who have never even been to a dog show and who have no knowledge about what they pontificate other than what they read in the less salubrious, "shock-horror" type of media. They don't let their lack of knowledge get in their way of spreading malicious gossip, rumour, and misinformed opinions; and they aren't concerned with the actual facts because the facts are never as juicy as the gossip. However, at least it's short-lived because they forget about what they perceive as the plight of pedigree dogs a week or so after Crufts, when the next piece of juicy media gossip catches their eye (such as what Posh wore to where and which celebrity was seen drunk at which club etc etc)


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## Bijou

Blinking hilarious !!!! :

Can't believe this load of tosh has lasted five pages !


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## MerlinsMum

smokeybear said:


> There are very few suppliers/retailers/market stalls/people with whom I will agree 100% about everything or can provide evidence that their products and materials used are 100% ethically sourced.


Does the OP buy books from Amazon? They sell shock collars - and prongs!


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## MrRustyRead

can someone please explain to me how show stackers work?


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## Born to Boogie

MrRustyRead said:


> can someone please explain to me how show stackers work?


Space the stacker as you would like Woofster's paws spaced.
Place Woofster, on the stacker.
Click and Reward.
Some hope


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## smokeybear

Of course you can also use something "equally dreadful" like the Paw Pods which are designed to increase spatial awareness for both ends and core fitness (there are some fantastic DVDs of dogs using these and other fitness equipment on FitPaws FB page

FitPAWS Balance Paw pods

Peraps eople need to widen their horizons and look at the big picture and educate themselves about products, who knows their dogs may benefit!


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## smokeybear

And yes, they ARE on sale at CRUFTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There will also be exhibitors at CRUFTS who I have seen USING pinch collars, if you come along Elmo I can point them out to you and you can protest to them in person! 


ROFLMAO


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## Milliepoochie

Theres lots of people posting ont he Crufts FB page 

Am I being abit dim but what on earth is the problem? 

From I understand theres a company which sells prong collars which will be selling other products at Crufts? 

But shock horror they wont be selling prong collars and will trade within the KC Rule just like they would at every other KC event they attend 

Maybe all companies which sell 1/2 checks should be banned to? As they can be dangerous.

Maybe Crufts should ban Flexi leads to? Because they can be dangerous to.

And crates as people are always leaving their dogs in their to long 

Its really made me laugh the people on the Crufts FB page saying they will not be going to Crufts because of this company - Well im sure thousands of others will and will have a fantastic day out.

The majority of people ar eintelligent enough to make an informed decision on their buying habits.

Il be going to Crufts and wont actively look for this particular company but if they had something on their store id still buy it.


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## smokeybear

Please feel free to boycott my posts, I bought a flat collar for my dog from them last year, it is very practical stainless steel one so does not rust, stretch, smell with a superb locking catch.

Some people just never let the truth get in the way of an uninformed opinion


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## MrRustyRead

Born to Boogie said:


> Space the stacker as you would like Woofster's paws spaced.
> Place Woofster, on the stacker.
> Click and Reward.
> Some hope


from that i cant really see what the issue is with them.....


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## Thorne

I'm wondering where OP buys their canine goods; it's a rare thing to find a dog goods supplier that sells absolutely nothing that could be potentially harmful to dogs. Choke chains, rawhide, food full of preservatives and colours, headcollars that tighten... I could go on. Ebay and the aforementioned amazon would be completely out of the question for Elmo too!
If you go to a dog or country show, do you ask at a stall whether they also sell prongs so you can avoid them if necessary? To be honest it's not something that would spring to my mind and I imagine the same could be said for most people.

No-one (except maybe dandogman ) on this thread is openly supporting the use of prong collars - I for one think they should be banned - but this thread is just a load of twaddle.
I'm very pleased about the banned from sale items at KC shows, but the amount of time it would take the KC to check every single vendor's sites and suppliers to ensure none of these items are sold outside of the shows would be astronomical. I imagine it would cut down on a lot of the retail stands that attend if all companies selling prongs etc. were banned!


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## BeaglesRbest

I am totally anti prong collars or any type of shock methods to control or train a dog. If you can't do it by humane, positive means, maybe you shouldn't have a dog. I've owned and handled many, many dogs of all sizes and temperaments over the years but have never felt the need to use anything of this sort.

However, I will be going to Crufts but I won't be buying goods from any companies that sell these items to the best of my knowledge.


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