# Animal hoarding



## Dragonlady (Jul 5, 2010)

Hi all, 
it's not my problem but I'd like to help a person and her two adult sons. My friend's problem is cat hoarding. It has started about 5 years ago and, as in many other cases, it was triggered by relationship problems. One day she met on a cat forum a woman who was looking for fosterers for kittens. I don't need to describe what happened later. My friend agreed to take more and more cats although she is in a full-time position and has two sons that live together in the same flat. At the moment, she has "only" ten cats (4 own cats + 6 that can't be rehomed because they are scared of humans or ill) but I'm really afraid that the woman from cat forum will call her again and try to give her more foster cats.
In this case, I'm really piss** off with this forum woman (Joanna) as she catches loads of cats that can't be all rehomed , that are not used to people and end up as problem cases in my friend's flat and other homes. Joanna is a great psychologist who informs every time on the phone that there are new kittens to collect from her home and if "they are not collected today, they will be euthanized."

A normal thinking person would ask Joanna why she catches all the cats if she has to euthanize them later. Would it be not kinder to spay them and let them go?
Joanna has managed to keep only three her own cats in the last years and all the other fosterers have 10-20.

I'd like to add that my friend lives outside the UK and in other countries "animal hoarding" is not a recognized psychiatric problems that effect not only the hoarders but her family and often her neighbours too.

Do you have any ideas how somebody could help such a person? I tried to talk to her a year ago after she had a car accident when she fell asleep in her car ...bringing more kittens from Joanna. (a total damage to the car and the police was surprised that nothing happened to my friend after the collision with a mast) I hoped she realized she had a problem but now I see Joanna started to call again...


----------



## vampirecatladyx (Sep 26, 2012)

sorry I don't mean to offend but is your friend financially able to care for these animals, do they need vet treatment, are they neglected or not getting enough food/love? 
If the answer is yes....I would interfere, if no!!! I would just talk to your friend and try to help her out any way you can, offer to help her look after them, clean up, help with vet bills/ food....if you force the issue otherwise there will be tears on both sides!!

maybe ask your friend for Joanna's contact details and tell her what is happening, she may be no the wiser of what is going on...

Personally I DON'T THINK 10 CATS IS HOARDING....MAYBE IF IT WAS 20, 30 40 ETC...YES! but 10 nope x


----------



## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Your friend has too kind a heart and the other woman knows that and takes advantage. But only your friend can change this - if she wants to - she has to learn to say no sometimes.

foster animals are in temporary care. if it's permanent, it's adoption.

If your friend has the means to care well for her current ones, then that is up to her. Perhaps she could help other cats/kittens in need in different ways - help at a rescue, if there is one near her, develop her own contacts, collect for an animal charity.

If the woman is making a nuisance of herself, and your friend is unhappy, I would suggest changing phone number. Ultimately, taking on more and more will affect the welfare of the ones she has at the moment, and they have to come first. perhaps she could write a short letter to the woman, just saying that she is full to capacity, funds are tight, and she is unable to take anymore. That might just stop the woman approaching her, and her then feeling guilty/taking more.

It is OK to say No sometimes - sadly, we can't help all animals in need, much as we would like to. But there are lots of other ways to make a difference.


----------



## vampirecatladyx (Sep 26, 2012)

Summersky said:


> Your friend has too kind a heart and the other woman knows that and takes advantage. But only your friend can change this - if she wants to - she has to learn to say no sometimes.
> 
> foster animals are in temporary care. if it's permanent, it's adoption.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more....I help animals any way I can, but sometime money and time inhibits this, but you can do what you can. I have many adopted pets at home and couldn't cope really with many more....so I now share rescues on FB etc...visit shelters and donate money, help raise awareness by posting info on social sites....my friend and I are also going to help out at a local shelter when we can too!

Maybe offering to be a fundraiser or arranging a charity event could be worth doing????
I really think people shouldn't judge people who rescue animals, maybe they should just offer to help out by offing time or food???


----------



## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

Is your friends home clean and tidy?
is she able to afford the vet treatments for the cats?
is she able to feed both her family and the cats?
is she still able to pay all of her own bills?
is she in any large amount of debt because of the cats?


these questions are quite important really, because if the answer is yes to them all (apart from the last one ofc) then really what is the problem? 10 cats may seem alot to you but many people on here have ALOT of pets up to 30 I believe going by a recent thread on who has the most animals. 

If your friend can't keep taking the cats and you think there is a problem just talk to her about it. and perhaps talk to the woman who keeps giving her them about looking into contacting rescues that are no kill they will be happy to take the cats on and foster them out to other people whos homes will be assessed before hand.


----------



## vampirecatladyx (Sep 26, 2012)

I totally agree x unless there is a problem feeding them or her family or the cats are suffering, I wouldn't worry x
Lots of animal people and rescuers have lots of pets....way more than 10 sometimes!!!


----------



## Sussexplumber (Oct 5, 2011)

Personally I think 10 is ridiculous, in a family home. Of course I dont know where she lives but cats piled on top of each other I think, are likely to feel stressed, even if she can cope. Unless she lives on a farm I think she needs to put her foot down and at least say a definite "NO" to any more. One cat is plenty for most people!


----------



## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

I belong to another forum where someone has 15 indoor cats in a one bed flat (probably bigger than my 2 bed semi though) We get regular pictures and all cats look happy and content so at what point does it become cat hoarding? If cats and humans are happy then isnt that all that matters?


----------



## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

I don't think the number matters if they are co-existing happily and if the person is able to care for themselves and the cats well, keep the house clean and afford the vets bills.

Many of us involved in rescue have more animals than we originally intended to, but you have to know when to say no, as you should never take on another animal if it is to the detriment of the ones you already care for.

It is hard to say no though. That's why some people work hard to build up networks of people who are likeminded, so you can help each other out.


----------



## Sussexplumber (Oct 5, 2011)

oggers86 said:


> I belong to another forum where someone has 15 indoor cats in a one bed flat (probably bigger than my 2 bed semi though) We get regular pictures and all cats look happy and content so at what point does it become cat hoarding? If cats and humans are happy then isnt that all that matters?


I`d like to pass that question over to Environmental Health. ~


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2012)

Sussexplumber said:


> I`d like to pass that question over to Environmental Health. ~


Wow you're a little judgmental.

Who the hell are you to say that someone has too many animals without seeing the home in question......

As you can see from my sig I have quite a few pets, all of which are cared for and anyone that has been to my house has no problems (my house is probably much cleaner than *some* others that have no pets 

Just because someone has more pets than YOU could look after doesn't mean that everyone would be so over-faced with a few cats ut:


----------



## vampirecatladyx (Sep 26, 2012)

Sussexplumber said:


> Personally I think 10 is ridiculous, in a family home. Of course I dont know where she lives but cats piled on top of each other I think, are likely to feel stressed, even if she can cope. Unless she lives on a farm I think she needs to put her foot down and at least say a definite "NO" to any more. One cat is plenty for most people!


I don't think 10 is ridiculous....as long as they are cared for, feed and happy. What does the number matter? Not sure on how many would be classed as hoarding...


----------



## vampirecatladyx (Sep 26, 2012)

Sussexplumber said:


> I`d like to pass that question over to Environmental Health. ~


How can you pass that over to environmental health??? If you haven't seen the home!
I know some people who have 1 or 2 animals and they live in filth....and others who have loads of animals and are clean and tidy. 
All that matters is that both the animals and the humans are happy, clean and cared for....end of!!!


----------



## vampirecatladyx (Sep 26, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Wow you're a little judgmental.
> 
> Who the hell are you to say that someone has too many animals without seeing the home in question......
> 
> ...


Totally agree!!! Some humans without pets are muckier than ones with loads of animals....totally true x


----------



## vampirecatladyx (Sep 26, 2012)

Sorry but I have loads of rescued animals....dogs, cats, rabbits, tortoise and fish. Total animals 10 + fish....my house isn't spotless and may be a bit hairy at times, but they are feed, receive love and affection everyday, are happy and each one is fully insured through petplan.

So basically you are saying I too have too many animals, I'm a hoarder and should be reported to Environmental Health???? You obviously haven't got a clue what it is like to rescue animals!!!


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

I find comments like this totally offensive to those with multiple pets. I have ten animals and they are all well cared for, well fed, and happy and content. Without me, they would have all been dead! You could eat off my floors which are mopped and disinfected daily - more than I could say for a lot of pet free households.


----------



## Sussexplumber (Oct 5, 2011)

vampirecatladyx said:


> Sorry but I have loads of rescued animals....dogs, cats, rabbits, tortoise and fish. Total animals 10 + fish....my house isn't spotless and may be a bit hairy at times, but they are feed, receive love and affection everyday, are happy and each one is fully insured through petplan.
> 
> So basically you are saying I too have too many animals, I'm a hoarder and should be reported to Environmental Health???? You obviously haven't got a clue what it is like to rescue animals!!!


Um well, I consider my cat a rescue. She was dumped on me by an ex lodger who didnt want her, moved out then sent me a text telling me to keep her. Until I was landed with her, I was considering getting one from CP. 

If you live on a farm then, great, but I personally think yes that more than 2 is pushing it. I suggest MOST people don`t have the time, the money or the space to accommodate so many animals.  It`s my opinion cats need their own space and need to be able to hide away from the rest of the world and others of their own kind, as and when they want to.

I assume you have a job and are out working unless u are retired?


----------



## Sussexplumber (Oct 5, 2011)

Ang2 said:


> I find comments like this totally offensive to those with multiple pets. I have ten animals and they are all well cared for, well fed, and happy and content. Without me, they would have all been dead! You could eat off my floors which are mopped and disinfected daily - more than I could say for a lot of pet free households.


That may absolutely be the case, but I think this thread is about animal hoarding, which I think is different to having a lot of pets and I think you are the exception rather than the rule. I`d suggest that most people don`t have the time, space or money to look after such numbers of pets. Don`t u agree?


----------



## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

My sister's one bedroom flat was HUGE!!

Not everyone who has lots of pets is an out of control animal hoarder, although admittedly some people get them selves into out of control situations where they can't properly care for themselves or he pets.


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Sussexplumber said:


> That may absolutely be the case, but I think this thread is about animal hoarding, which I think is different to having a lot of pets and I think you are the exception rather than the rule. I`d suggest that most people don`t have the time, space or money to look after such numbers of pets. Don`t u agree?


Yes, there are some that have more animals than they can care for. I am lucky to live in a detached house with land and work from home.

Having said that, animal hoarders usually have their hearts in the right place. They try to help all the strays they can and it then gets out of hand. Most of them need help, rather than beratement.


----------



## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

I think we would probably be a bit pushed with more than 2 cats financially as I earn so little. Timewise though, having one or two more really wouldnt impact us dramatically. 

Unfortunately my 2 sibling cats arent exactly close so probably having more would impact on them as there would be less places for them to escape to unless we lived somewhere bigger. 

I do think its unfair to label someone a hoarder without all the facts. 

For me hoarding is when there are too many cats to control, to interact with, when you cant walk anywhere without falling over a cat. Also, when there are so many cats they dont get on, toilet all over the place and the house smells. Basically like the houses you see on TV. 

For one person, having 4 might impact the above, for others, 20. It all depends on the type of person you are, the time you have and the space you have.


----------



## vampirecatladyx (Sep 26, 2012)

Sussexplumber said:


> Um well, I consider my cat a rescue. She was dumped on me by an ex lodger who didnt want her, moved out then sent me a text telling me to keep her. Until I was landed with her, I was considering getting one from CP.
> 
> If you live on a farm then, great, but I personally think yes that more than 2 is pushing it. I suggest MOST people don`t have the time, the money or the space to accommodate so many animals.  It`s my opinion cats need their own space and need to be able to hide away from the rest of the world and others of their own kind, as and when they want to.
> 
> I assume you have a job and are out working unless u are retired?


I don't live on a farm,no!! just a normal 4 bed house.....yes I work, I have all my animals insured, feed them good food and walk my 2 dogs at least once a day.They all get love and affection everyday when they want it....so I don't see the problem in have numerous animals???
I rescue animals, which is slightly different to just having 2 as pets.....I have lived like this for years, it's normal to me and have no problems doing it.I would rather have nothing myself that see them without!

I would say that this lady is okay with her 10 animals otherwise why do it?


----------



## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

There's a very big difference between keeping a large number of animals and animal hoarding and it's a very important one. Keeping a large number of loved pets is a personal choice but animal hoarding is an illness with horrible consequences for the animals.

Animal hoarders have large numbers of animals that they cannot care for _and a distorted perception of their situation._ They believe that only they can care for the animals and that the animals are well, healthy and happy when they are not.

There was a terrible case of a vet who hoarded horses in Geelong. The horses were in a TERRIBLE state. They were starving, had overgrown hooves and untreated injuries. Some were pts and some survived with treatment. The vet was so ill that in court she held up a photograph of a skeletal stallion and appealed for mercy for him. She described his photo as that of a grief stricken horse looking for his herd.... She was ordered to undergo treatment and banned from owning animals. She was back in court shortly afterwards because she'd acquired more horses. She was certain that only she could "save" them and care for them properly.

I think it's important to know if this lady is hoarding or just a lady with a soft heart. If she's a hoarder it could be terrible for the cats.


----------



## Dragonlady (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks guys for all your posts. After moving, I was some time without internet connection at home and did not want to use my computer in the office for posting on PF Now I have caught up with all your responses and good advice.

I fully agree that a person with 10 cats can be either a normal animal lover or an animal hoarder. I also agree that 10 cats are not a world record and many of you have more cats and/or dogs and nobody would even think about animal hoarding in your situation but...

There are many "buts" in my friend's circumstances. First of all, nobody would say that her flat is clean because her cats are too stressed and they urinate to mark their favourite spots. Secondly, the flat is not big enough for so many cats. Some of them cannot cope with other cats in such small territory. It's something different if the cats can use the outdoors or if they are only confined to the two rooms. She has two adults sons who would like to bring home friends / girlfriends and I know they are ashamed because of the smell.

Although she can still cope financially and the cats are not hungry/neglected there is the danger that she could possibly have problems in the near future. You know how it is with cats that wait for adoption. Some are lucky, some return to my friends. Some are too ill to go for adoption. And it is my friend's responsibility to find new homes and owners for the cats. 

As you can see, it's a borderline situation and I personally feel that my friend should get some professional psychological help. I am just afraid that the number will grow quickly to more cats and nobody will be happy - neither cats nor humans. The other problem is that many psychiatrists/psychologists outside the UK and Germany do not know the animal hoarding phenomenon.

Well, I will just try to keep in touch and help as much as I can.


----------

