# Flexi lead death



## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

So it finally happened, in front of me, my fears for these dreadful leads has come to be.

We just went out for our walk and 75 yards ahead of us stood on the edge of the road waiting to cross are two women, a couple of kids and two little dogs, both on flexi leads. One of the dogs got scared ran out into the road got hit really hard by a car (I can still hear the noise) and was killed outright. The poor driver has not yet felt the full force of the guilt that will hit him later but as I told him, there was nothing he could have done.

The kids were and are traumatised, the body was carried away by the younger lady, the older lady holding the remaining dog and the lead the now dead dog was attached too was just stunned. It was locked she keep saying, it was locked.

These leads are a bloody menace and a little life has gone either because the damn thing failed or because of a mistake by the owner. Some of you people with small dogs will use these hideous contraptions because you see these things as a way to give the dog some extra space but I tell you they are an accident waiting to happen.

If you have and use one of these idiotic devices learn from this, get rid of it and buy a proper fixed lead instead. If you cannot let your dog off lead in safe public places without using one of these ridiculous leads then don't. Let the dog exercise in safe surroundings instead.

I am angry and upset by what was an avoidable death caused by the use of a badly conceived lead that should never have been allowed on the market as far as I am concerned. 

RIP little guy.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

OMG ...... poor wee thing  

I absolutely loathe them with a passion for exactly this reason - one of my pal's had her dog on one and she lunged at something and the clip snapped, next to a road and ..... same result  

My mum used to use one when walking - until I told her about the above ..... she won't let Maisie off lead if she's walking her but now uses the fixed lead for village / pavement walking and puts her on the flexi when they get to the fields - I'm OK with that.


They're awful things ..... poor button, sleep tight wee one x


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Sad of course, but certainly doesn't deter me from using mine which I've used safely & effectively for over 15 years now. Accidents happen. I've had Missy back out of her harness, lead clips detach & of course collar buckles can weaken/work their way loose too. Nothing is fail proof.


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

How dreadful for everybody involved.

I have a small dogs, but gave up flexi leads years ago. We go on short leads to where the dogs are let off the leads. Anyway, when I did use flexis I never them used near danger - roads or cliffs, in crowded high streets nor in parks or areas where dogs and people were milling around.


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Dreadfully sad for all involved. Poor dog and their family, and poor car driver 

I used to be very "anti" but since my little dog went totally blind, I do accept they have their place. That place is never next to a road though!


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

Happened to a neighbour of mines JR.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2017)

Oh gosh @cbcdesign I'm so sorry you had to witness that, you must be in shock too 

Poor family, poor dog.


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## Tacey (Mar 4, 2012)

That's so awful.. for everyone involved. 

I'm sure there are people out there who use flexi's responsibly... But they seem to be hugely outnumbered by the wallies who do not.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> Sad of course, but certainly doesn't deter me from using mine which I've used safely & effectively for over 15 years now. Accidents happen. I've had Missy back out of her harness, lead clips detach & of course collar buckles can weaken/work their way loose too. Nothing is fail proof.


This was a foreseeable and avoidable accident, that's the point. I prefer to have my hand on the lead that is attached to my dog and cannot extend all by itself, not rely on a spool and a plastic lock that can fail or be forgotten. Some have to learn the hard way unfortunately, I have done it this way for years, nobody will tell me different. No doubt the lady that just saw her dog killed liked flexis too but I suspect she is not a fan anymore!


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Oh gosh @cbcdesign I'm so sorry you had to witness that, you must be in shock too
> 
> Poor family, poor dog.


Well firstly there is the possibility that the dog saw us coming and got scared so I have that to contend with. Then there is just the horror of seeing the poor thing killed like that. On top of that this can be so easily foreseen when a lead can unspool with the click of a button or due to mechanical failure.

The trouble with these is that its people with small dogs, often older people that use them. They think the dog is not big enough to break the lead and that is probably true but a simple failure of the spool lock or a senior moment forgetting to lock the thing is all it takes. You cannot forget to lock a lead that doesn't extend and you don't have a mechanical spool failure to worry about either.

dogloverlou is right, accidents happen but safety is all about trying to think about what could happen then taking steps to minimise that safety risk. These leads introduce extra safety fears fixed leads simply don't have, that is what people who like these stupid things don't seem to recognise.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

cbcdesign said:


> This was a foreseeable and avoidable accident, that's the point. I prefer to have my hand on the lead that is attached to my dog and cannot extend all by itself, not rely on a spool and a plastic lock that can fail or be forgotten. Some have to learn the hard way unfortunately, I have done it this way for years, nobody will tell me different. No doubt the lady that just saw her dog killed liked flexis too but I suspect she is not a fan anymore!


I've never had one extend by itself or fail. The type of lead is important too. Some of the other flexi options out there are made more cheaply and do not feel as tough or as reliable as the flexi brand itself IMO.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Very sad.

I do see so many people use them near roads, or simply on unsuitable dogs. Mind you, same can be said for slip leads or no lead at all, which is common where i live. Walking dogs whilst engrossed in a smart phone is also something i see daily.

I only use mine in places where, if it does fail/break, it doesnt matter. Near roads, livestock, other dogs, people etc, i switch to a fixed lead.

Common sense and all that.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> I've never had one extend by itself or fail. The type of lead is important too. Some of the other flexi options out there are made more cheaply and do not feel as tough or as reliable as the flexi brand itself IMO.


I don't doubt what you say in any way. But mistakes happen and that is all it takes, forgetting to lock it one day, the dog gets scared.............................
I would put money on it than compared to dogs on leads who have been killed the number of dogs killed on these wrenched leads outnumber them by a huge margin.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

That is very sad and must have been incredibly harrowing for all who witnessed it, and of course the dog that lost it's life.

However as with most accidents it was preventable and not the fault of the tool but rather it's inappropriate use. Flexi leads are not supposed to be used along roads even when in their 'locked' state as, like with anything, that mechanism could fail. I would have thought it was common sense that anything with an expansion mechanism should not be used near danger like walking along busy roads.

It is up to the owner to pick and choose equipment that is suitable for not only the environment but the strength and character of their dog. Having through trial and error been through a lot of commonly used and recommended brands (leads, harnesses, collars etc) that my dogs have wrecked or worn out, I am VERY fussy about what I use as the last thing I want to do is lose a dog through equipment failure.

When use appropriately on the right dog in the right situation Flexi's are wonderful tools.


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## Ownedbymany (Nov 16, 2014)

What a terrible thing to happen. You must be so shaken up  

Any lead, collar, harness, head collar etc could break. In fact it's happened several times (not my own equipment). I've never had a flexi lead break, though of course it could happen.
Flexis are are almost as safe as any other lead when used correctly. The only extra dangers in my opinion is the risk of it flying back towards you which can be solved by double attaching it and I find they are easier to drop but again that's easily solved too like with any other lead.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

very sorry you had to witness this and so sad for the owner and the dog - but I will happily carry on using my flexi leads. They are extremely useful and have a definite place in dog ownership. Not to be used near roads but that is user error and nothing to do with the tool itself The nearest I have had a dog on a lead being run over was when a clip failed on a lead as I let a dog out of the car. A short lead. Luckily the dog was very obedient and stopped before she reached the road (just the pavement width between the boot of the car and a busy main road). So maybe leads of any sort should not be used near roads!


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## Westie Mum (Feb 5, 2015)

Poor little dog 

I do own/use flexi leads but ...... I only buy Flexi, not cheap brands and I never use them for Street walking! None of my dogs need to be far away from me walking around the block.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Blitz said:


> very sorry you had to witness this and so sad for the owner and the dog - but I will happily carry on using my flexi leads. They are extremely useful and have a definite place in dog ownership. Not to be used near roads but that is user error and nothing to do with the tool itself The nearest I have had a dog on a lead being run over was when a clip failed on a lead as I let a dog out of the car. A short lead. Luckily the dog was very obedient and stopped before she reached the road (just the pavement width between the boot of the car and a busy main road). So maybe leads of any sort should not be used near roads!


I had a clip fail/detach once with my old dog too. Cue him running some yards ahead on the pavement and me screaming at him to stop ( which thankfully he did! ) And there are the beach trips and sand interfering with the clip....walking along thinking Missy was safely on lead and she was unattached but walking along side me not knowing any better 
But yes I agree. It's just about common sense really. I do feel for the person though as obviously even when you've done everything right i.e locked it, keeping it short etc and for it to unexpectedly fail is really unfortunate & horrible. But it's certainly not like we hear about flexi lead deaths every week.


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## MrsMid (Dec 8, 2013)

I'm so sorry you had to witness that. I'm very sad for the family too, and of course the poor driver, who I'm sure will be upset.

That noise. One of our neighbours was walking her lab off lead and as we approached, her dog ran in front of a car to greet us. Luckily she was okay after a few stitches, but I still hear it and think about it all the time and feel very guilty. Please make sure you look after yourself. It's such an awful thing to happen and very upsetting for all involved.

I've yet to see a flexi fail, but me and my dogs have been tangled in one (same neighbour whose dog was hit walks her crazy Labrador on one) and my mum has sliced through her hand when she tried grabbing one as a dog was terrorising her dogs. I don't like them at all. At least not for my own dogs.

RIP little fella.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm so sorry that you had to witness that. So sad and so preventable 

I can't say I blame the flexi tho because they should never be used near a road, I spose sadly this event shows why 
I've had a couple of collars completely fall apart on me now...one was a tester so we were in a safe place, but one was walking next to a busy road. I was lucky but anything can fail.

For those that use flexi's. Do they have a warning on the packaging warning about road use or is it left to common sense?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I think it is common sense. after all how can you have control of a dog if you are just holding the handle, even without it failing to lock.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Blitz said:


> I think it is common sense. after all how can you have control of a dog if you are just holding the handle, even without it failing to lock.


Oh I agree that it "should" be common sense.
I wonder if a large warning label added to the package would at least open someones eyes.


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## Smianhead (Oct 5, 2016)

cbcdesign said:


> So it finally happened, in front of me, my fears for these dreadful leads has come to be.
> 
> We just went out for our walk and 75 yards ahead of us stood on the edge of the road waiting to cross are two women, a couple of kids and two little dogs, both on flexi leads. One of the dogs got scared ran out into the road got hit really hard by a car (I can still hear the noise) and was killed outright. The poor driver has not yet felt the full force of the guilt that will hit him later but as I told him, there was nothing he could have done.
> 
> ...


Awfuk


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2017)

Every tool carries a risk. I would think it would be common sense not to use a flexi near a road, but sadly it’s not. Then again, nor does it seem to be common sense to even leash a dog near a road...

I’ve never had a leash or collar fail and our dogs are not exactly small. I’m not saying it won’t happen, just that is hasn’t happened to me. Horse halters and leads definitely, just not dog ones. 

On the other hand, the number of times I have heard that all too familiar “thock thock thoch” noise as a flexi lead’s lock fails, usually as the dog is hurtling towards us dragging a panicked looking owner behind them? All too often. 
I don’t think flexis are the greatest tools, certainly not to be used as commonly as they are. I do think they’re a useful tool for a specific type of dog with a knowledgeable/sensible owner. Unfortunately they’re marketed as a great tool for anyone and any dog. 

For dogs who need a little more freedom than a shorter leash but not totally loose, I’d much rather use a long line myself.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I've been using flexi leads for thirty years now, without incident.

Not everyone who uses one is a fool.

If I put on the brake, say at a kerbside, I also keep my thumb on the brake button, just in case the locking mechanism fails.

They're not only used by owners of small dogs, I see plenty of big dogs on them too.

I will continue using mine, as they serve a useful purpose.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

What an awful thing to witness and so sad for everyone involved.

I've used the Flexi brand of flexi lead rather then any of the cheaper versions and have yet to have one fail on me. The only thing that has gone wrong with one that was possibly 12 years old, was that the spring in the clip broke which meant it wouldn't stay clipped on to the harness something we spotted pretty much straightway.
Flexi's have there place, but not on a busy main road imo. We use them on walks where Isla can't be off the lead for some reason, and they were very useful as previous dogs aged and lost their hearing and could no longer safely be off the lead. It allowed them some freedom and kept them safe.

Yesterday as we were leaving the supermarket in the car along the service road, a couple came towards us on the pavement with their little staff on a flexi lead almost at its full extent. Although not a busy main road, it is well used by those coming to and from the supermarket. As we approached, the dog thought he was supposed to cross the road, I think he knew where he was going, and trotted into the road only a few yards in front of us. Luckily Mr S had spotted the dog and guessed what was going to happen (as I had) and braked fairly hard. The man hauled his dog back onto the path, smirked at us, and carried on with his dog still at the far end of the flexi.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm sorry you had to witness this and the poor driver must be in bits and it was so unnecessary. A poor dog has lost it life a famiy heartbroken all because of one those leads been used in the wrong place. 

I surprised it doesn't happen more often, everyday I see little dogs running along on main roads owner not watching them, it gets me so mad. I often wonder why if it worries me why doesn't it worry them.


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

The flexi leads I used had a short tape section with a handle on it, sort of proper short lead, to hold when the dog was supposed to be under the handler's full control. But maybe new designs don't...


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Sweety said:


> I've been using flexi leads for thirty years now, without incident.
> 
> Not everyone who uses one is a fool.
> 
> ...


The point is its not about being a fool or otherwise, its about the fact these leads introduce potential additional dangers that a fixed lead doesn't. People make mistakes, it doesn't make them fools and if you think keeping your finger on the button is a failsafe I think you are kidding yourself. That button is one element from a number of potential failure points with these wretched things.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

How tragic for everyone involved. The poor owner is no doubt full of guilt and regrets, the driver is no doubt traumatised, I dread to think what the children must be going through and of course the poor dog has lost its life. Hope you are OK. When we walk our dogs from the house to somewhere we might want to use a flexi we always use their short fixed leads until we get there. It is a pain having to carry the flexi but better safe than sorry.


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## Allison Mary (Dec 11, 2016)

We decided before we brought Barkley home that we would not use one of these, I've never liked them as I thought an accident could potentially happen, so sad that dogs are getting hurt or dying, I will be checking Barkley's harness and lead regularly for wear and tear as I would hate for him to get loose. Just wish people would only use those sort of leads in parks etc. So sorry you had to see the accident. RIP little dog.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Poor dog, terrible for everyone involved.
I do see people using extendable leads in situations where I don't think it's safe, in fact I was watching an old episode of It's Me or the Dog this afternoon (Toadie and Smartie, probably on YouTube) and was cringing at this owner clinging on for dear life as their 50kg aggressive dog dragged them down the street on a Flexi. Accident waiting to happen.
I do use a Flexi myself though but never near a road, the dog is always on a standard lead when we leave the house. Any bit of kit can be misused.


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## bogdog (Jan 1, 2014)

The alternative to flexi leads is a long line. In the days when long lines were not available I had them made by a small company in Wales. 20 foot ones in 5/8 inch and 40 foot ones in 1inch webbing. I always had a handle made about 4 feet from the clip, as well as at the end of the long line. Recently, I won some Clix products and was surprised that the long line has no handles at all. I guess, with a webbing or leather lead/line you can wrap them round your hand.


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## rockdot (Jul 19, 2016)

Horrible thing to happen and for all involved. It's a shame people still use them roadside but accidents can happen anywhere.

Unfortunately things can and do sometimes break when you least expect it. Last week I was walking my dogs alongside a river, my collie leant towards the river to sniff some grass and his harness broke (at the clips on his back, both snapped), it caused him to slip and hung him by the neck for a second before he fell out of it and into the river, there was not a thing that could of been done to prevent it. He was ok but his harness was binned when we got home!


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## evel-lin (Jul 1, 2010)

I think as a tool they have their uses but I would never use one near a road, locked or otherwise. I'm lucky to have lots of places nearby Pippin can go offlead and then other places where I need more control over him I use a long line.

What a tragedy for that little dog and all involved


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

bogdog said:


> The flexi leads I used had a short tape section with a handle on it, sort of proper short lead, to hold when the dog was supposed to be under the handler's full control. But maybe new designs don't...


The old flexi I have did have one of those grab handles and that is what I use to use when I needed the dog under a lot of control, but the new ones don't have that anymore which is a pain


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

This wories me very time I see people walking along the road with the dog on fully extended flexi lead it is so predictable I use flexi lead for my italian greyhounds but while walking alongthe road they are locked and just to be sure as I have had the lock fail before I also hold the lead at the handle.

Another pet hate with these leads are the people that use them on colllars rather than a harness I have even seen people usinng flexi leads with the dog running round with it attached to a halti. Used correctly they are ok but its when idiots don't think and don't use them properly


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

"An experienced dog trainer and owner of Kennels, said: “For road walking our experience shows that a plain simple lead four to six foot in length (depending on the size of dog) with a ‘hoop handle’ is best.

“We always suggest that the hoop is put over the hand as an extra safety measure.

“We liken walking a dog on a path near a road to walking with a toddler – holding their hand, not allowing them to be several feet in front or to the side.

“A flexi-lead, one which is suitable for the dog being exercised, can be used when in a ‘safe’ area but we would not recommend using one while walking by or near a road.”

Sounds like good advice to me!


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

What an awful thing to witness @cbcdesign - how tragic for everyone involved - you must be so shocked and shaken up


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I use mine around the village, reeling in whichever dog I'm using it on whenever we get super close to the roadside or people passing etc. I live in a village with lots of green space so I may have my dog extended on his lead, but we are not close to any passing cars.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> "An experienced dog trainer and owner of Kennels, said: "For road walking our experience shows that a plain simple lead four to six foot in length (depending on the size of dog) with a 'hoop handle' is best.
> 
> "We always suggest that the hoop is put over the hand as an extra safety measure.
> 
> ...


It is good advice and what most people do. But you were blaming the flexi lead, it was owner error to use it in the wrong place.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Fleur said:


> What an awful thing to witness @cbcdesign - how tragic for everyone involved - you must be so shocked and shaken up


Yea one or two little drinks are on the cards later I think. It was shocking to see too but its so much worse for the family involved. Its hard enough seeing that as an adult, who knows how a child would react to seeing it? Both the kids were really shaken up and the little boy told me through his tears the dog had always followed him around. Very sad.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Blitz said:


> It is good advice and what most people do. But you were blaming the flexi lead, it was owner error to use it in the wrong place.


Yes its a stupid flawed design concept!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Yes its a stupid flawed design concept!


in what way


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Blitz said:


> in what way


Its flawed because its not a failsafe design. Think about how a seatbelt works!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Its flawed because its not a failsafe design. Think about how a seatbelt works!


Nothing is a fail safe design

My dad witnessed a very similar fatal accident with a standard lead. Due to human error it was dropped/slipped out of the owners hand at the road side and a lorry hit the poor dog.

I will still continue to use our flexi leads as the positives far out weight the negatives for us personally.

Sorry you had to witness such a traumatic situation.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

cbcdesign said:


> The point is its not about being a fool or otherwise, its about the fact these leads introduce potential additional dangers that a fixed lead doesn't. People make mistakes, it doesn't make them fools and if you think keeping your finger on the button is a failsafe I think you are kidding yourself. That button is one element from a number of potential failure points with these wretched things.


Oh no. I don't kid myself.

No piece of equipment is 'failsafe'. Clips can break, buckles can break.

I've been walking dogs for fifty years and never had such an incident. Maybe I've just been lucky.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Dogloverlou said:


> Sad of course, but certainly doesn't deter me from using mine which I've used safely & effectively for over 15 years now. Accidents happen. I've had Missy back out of her harness, lead clips detach & of course collar buckles can weaken/work their way loose too. Nothing is fail proof.


I'm the same, been using one for years and never had a problem. We do go on the road but its only a short distance.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Oh no. I don't kid myself.
> 
> No piece of equipment is 'failsafe'. Clips can break, buckles can break.
> 
> I've been walking dogs for fifty years and never had such an incident. Maybe I've just been lucky.


It is perfectly feasible to design equipment in such a way that failure can be predicted and therefore designed in such a way that it fails safe. Lifts are designed in such a manner which is why power failure doesn't result in them plunging to the ground floor except in movies and exceptionally circumstances. They fail safe because they are designed that way.

The older we get the more likely it is that we will make mistakes. Where these leads are concerned which are not designed so that extension of the lead is always and exclusively under the control of the operator and require an action to be performed continuously to do so means accidents like this one today are likely. In fact they are a common occurrence as a simple google search can confirm.

These leads are badly designed.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2017)

All equipment fails, but some equipment is more prone to failure or dangerous accidents than others. 

For example, all collars can damage a dog’s neck. However, unlimited slip leads and choke chains are far more likely to cause damage than a wide, flat collar. 

Another example is that dogs can slip out of collars. Needle nosed dogs especially. However it’s far less likely that a needle nose will slip out of a greyhound collar than a regular buckle collar. 

So yes, not all equipment is created equal. The locking mechanism on flexis is notorious for failing and there is a reason so many professionals warn owners to either not use them or use them with caution. That’s not a knock on anyone who uses flexis, just a realistic statement about the tool and it’s potential for issues.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

What an awful thing to witness, poor pup, and everyone else involved 
I have had a near miss with a black pug on a flexi on a road without street lights! Luckily I had spotted this chap with his 2 pugs on unlocked flexis so had slowed down and was able to avoid his dog toddling into the road right in front of me!!

I use my bright yellow neon flexi in certain situations, but never near a road or round lots of other people pr dogs, surely that's just common sense??

@StormyThai I just checked my Flexi packaging (yes I'm sad and keep all packaging and instruction manuals:Shy) and it says nothing about not using it near traffic, just about being aware of the surroundings and not letting it tangle anyone or anything up. It does say to check the lead with every use so that's something I suppose...


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## PetsBestBuddy (Oct 17, 2013)

@cbcdesign What an awful thing to have happened and for everyone involved to have witnessed.
I agree with you re the design of flexi leads. I have 2 flexi 2-8 Classics sitting beside me right now, both of which failed during use. They have been lying in a drawer ever since as a reminder to never buy one ever again or recommend them to anyone else. They have been in that drawer since 2004.
I had bought the first one not long after getting my Staffie, Missy. She was 18 months old at the time (now 13 1/2 years old) and weighed less than the maximum stated 44lb (19.95kg) weight limit for that particular model. She was my first dog and I thought at the time that keeping her on a flexi until we got to know each other, until she knew her new surroundings and until her recall was established was the right thing to do. I didn't know at the time that you could get long lines for dogs.
The first flexi failed within a couple of weeks after buying it. I was walking Missy around the nearby fields, letting her run on ahead and calling her back to me every little while. She was doing great, recalling well every time then running on ahead as dogs do. Then one time she ran ahead and just as she reached the full 8m length of the cord (I had bought the cord flexi rather than the tape one because I felt the nylon tape was so fine that it could potentially slice through the skin if it got caught up around a leg), the cord snapped just about an inch beyond the little plastic clip where the cord is attached to the short tape section that you clip onto the dog's harness. She hadn't ever chewed it and it hadn't caught up on anything, she just ran forwards in a straight line and the cord snapped when she reached the end. She wasn't particularly strong either and although she was very energetic at 18 months old, she was at a lean, leggy stage of growth and tired quickly at the time because she was not used to going for hour long walks. Luckily, we were away from any roads and she came straight to me when called. I walked her home by holding the remaining short tape section of the failed flexi lead.
The second flexi to fail was the one I bought to replace the first one. This time it was the reel mechanism followed by the brake mechanism. It started off with the flexi not reeling in properly every time, although I could "fix" it manually by wiggling the cord about until the reel mechanism worked again and the cord wound itself in as it should have. In hindsight, I should have returned it to the shop. The day the brake failed, I was crossing the (busy) main road which runs through my village. I had the flexi at its shortest and for extra security, I had my thumb on the brake button. We were not quite across the full width of the road when Missy pulled forward slightly and the flexi extended with her instead of the brake holding it as it should have. Now if the brake had failed while we were waiting to cross...
(**I started going to training classes with Missy just 3 days after getting her (she was a private rehome) and she was a very quick learner despite having had no training before this. Her recalls were, and still are, exceptionally good. She has always loved to learn new things and always does her absolute best to please, so even when young and excitable, she was always very obedient = these 2 flexi lead failures weren't our fault  ).

Someone upthread mentioned It's Me Or The Dog. I watched that one too :Wideyed :Muted I would never dream of even contemplating using a flexi (even if I hadn't previously had 2 fail as described above) with my 18 month old rescue Staffie x Lab, Maya, she's WAY too strong and boisterous. After months of working with her on a long line, her recall is solid enough now so she does get off lead every day, but I'm mega aware of who or what is nearby so that I can call her if needed. She's easy to entertain with a tennis ball or squeaky toy and is more interested in what's in my pockets than anything else (...unless she sees a cat...I have to constantly scan the horizon for cats  ). When on lead though, she wears a harness (Ruffwear Front Range) and a half check collar, with a strong webbing double ended training lead clipped onto both the harness and collar. There's NO way a flexi lead would hold her...not even the flexi Giant Professional, for dogs up to 50kg !


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

PetsBestBuddy said:


> Someone upthread mentioned It's Me Or The Dog. I watched that one too :Wideyed :Muted


I was watching it like  :Nailbiting :Watching


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

If anyone's curious...




Has to be seen to be believed


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## PetsBestBuddy (Oct 17, 2013)

I've seen that one a couple of times before, but I was still like this :Wideyed :Stop  :Hilarious, and :Jawdrop at their walkie talkies and dog/human feeding arrangements


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

What an awful, tragic thing to happen. I'm sorry you witnessed that OP. I always watch dogs on flexis by roads very carefully, but sadly I see a lot of dogs off lead by roads which really freaks me out!

Personally I think it comes down to knowing your dog too. If I had a large dog that pulled like a train, I wouldn't use a flex. If I had a nervous dog prone to freaking out, I wouldn't use a flexi. If I had a dog who wasn't great at walking in a straight line, I wouldn't use one. If my dog didn't obey basic commands like 'wait', I wouldn't use one. I don't use one with my puppy because he bombs around like a crazy dog (and he's great offlead). 

The dog I do occasionally use one with potters around and obeys commands, and of course I don't use it by the road. If it were to fail it would be a non-event! In the 6.5 years I've had my older dog I've never had her slip a harness or collar or had any piece of equipment fail or break.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

cbcdesign said:


> It is perfectly feasible to design equipment in such a way that failure can be predicted and therefore designed in such a way that it fails safe. Lifts are designed in such a manner which is why power failure doesn't result in them plunging to the ground floor except in movies and exceptionally circumstances. They fail safe because they are designed that way.


So how can they predict a spring failing on a lead, it's something that just happens or a lock on a Flexi from failing when a sudden jolt can release it!!!!


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

cbcdesign said:


> Its flawed because its not a failsafe design. Think about how a seatbelt works!


Nothing is fail safe, I have seen two non-extender leads snap at the handle when a dog has attempted to bolt, on both occasiona into the road. I had this happen myself with a new lead on a 3kg puppy.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Happy Paws said:


> So how can they predict a spring failing on a lead, it's something that just happens or a lock on a Flexi from failing when a sudden jolt can release it!!!!


Exactly, anything can break. You cant possibly compare the manufacture of a dog lead with fail safes on a lift! Horse equipment breaks, people get badly injured. Brakes fail on cars, people get badly injured. Accidents happen. Some are preventable and you should do an automatic mental risk assessment whatever you are doing but you cannnot blame the equipment and say no one should use it because of someone using something incorrectly.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

I have used a flexi lead for years
Romany lived to be 15
Holly lived to be 18
Now I use one on Chilli and have never had a problem in all the years usage. I will still use it accidents happen, clips break and it can happen any time any where
That was a dreadful thing to witness and I feel for you


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

I am so sorry ...what a horrible thing to happen ...poor family ...and poor you to witness it, too.

Of course it's true that equipment failure can happen (which is why I am going to go and check all my doggy equipment now!) and handler error is probably responsible for most accidents anyway ...just as it is in cars. Indeed, I have never used a Flexi (I use training lines) but I certainly didn't realise that they weren't supposed to be used beside roads ......



labradrk said:


> Flexi leads are not supposed to be used along roads even when in their 'locked' state as, like with anything, that mechanism could fail.


The problem is this is not stated on any of the Flexi lead websites (ie http://www.flexilead.com/en/) where they give copious instructions on how to correct your dog, how to use the brake etc....and certainly sell their designs but give no safety warnings about not walking along roads. Every day I see people walking their dogs down the road on Flexi leads on their way to the park/fields. Some allowing their dogs to sniff in front. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone walk down on a short lead and then transfer to the Flexi when they get to the park (which is what we tend to do when we use a long line on a pup for example). So if they shouldn't be used near a road why don't they say so ......

J


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## Tillystar (Jan 30, 2013)

How awful for all involved 
I only ever use a flexi taking Tilly for wees/poos at home as I have an open shared garden n lots of cats around.
If I ever see anyone walking a dog with a flexi or no lead it makes me cringe n I automatically slow down.


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

So sorry CBC - ghastly for you and all concerned.

While I understand the argument 'but anything can fail', surely it's about making a risk assessment..... Any car and any driver can be involved in an accident, but by ensuring that the car I buy has the highest NCAP rating, and by taking an advanced drivers' course, and by sticking to the speed limit, and by maintaining a safe stopping distance......

Of course any lead/harness/collar can fail, but why increase the chances of having a problem by using such a dodgy design?

I could share plenty of stories, but will stick to the most recent one: yesterday I had to take one of my cats to the vet; there was a lady waiting to pay who had a small dog (I think it was an Italian greyhound) on a flexi-lead - try as she might, she could not get the wretched thing to lock and so the dog was leaping around over every animal and person in the waiting room (I covered B's carrier with my coat!). Even two receptionists could not make the locking mechanism work, and it was not an old or tatty lead.


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

I am so sorry you had to see that and for the poor family.
I see dogs all the time, large, very large and small on Flexible leads (note i didn't say Flexi, coz our local petshop sells the extra crap ones too) next to very busy roads and it scares the crap out of me. We have a flexi but it is never used near a road, and the flexi is attached to my wrist so i can't drop it.
I think we need more info going to the public about these leads and how they should be used.


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

Blaise in Surrey said:


> she could not get the wretched thing to lock


 Could she not just grab its harness or collar or even the lead and suck up the pain.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

steveshanks said:


> Could she not just grab its harness or collar or even the lead and suck up the pain.


I still have a scar across the palm of my right hand from when a lady slipped over near me after her dog pulled her over ..... silly me grabbed at the lead (a Flexi) to prevent the young GSD from dashing off and it sliced my hand (but hey, I got the pup). It's not pain you can 'suck up' actually, trust me lol.

J


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

If it was to save my dog i'd suck it up LOL, mind to be fair i have hands like dried up leather


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

steveshanks said:


> Could she not just grab its harness or collar or even the lead and suck up the pain.


They could of held the dog by the collar/harness until they sorted the flexi temporarily by wrapping the lead part around the handle and looping it off to hold it at a fixed length until she purchased a new lead.
Simple solution I would of thought.

I use tape flexis (not that I would use a flexi in a vets) and although it would cut my hand to grab it as it reeled out it is quite painless to hold on to i'm sure the cords would be similar


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Blaise in Surrey said:


> I could share plenty of stories, but will stick to the most recent one: yesterday I had to take one of my cats to the vet; there was a lady waiting to pay who had a small dog (I think it was an Italian greyhound) on a flexi-lead - try as she might, she could not get the wretched thing to lock and so the dog was leaping around over every animal and person in the waiting room (I covered B's carrier with my coat!). Even two receptionists could not make the locking mechanism work, and it was not an old or tatty lead.


Crazy. why on earth would anyone take a dog to the vets on a Flexi lead.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Blitz said:


> Horse equipment breaks,


Oh yes...I still remember watching Mark Todd complete Badminton with one stirrup on Bertie Blunt.
Broken equipment can happen to any one...but it isn't the equipment at fault. It is, for the most part down to human error! Either equipment not checked, or not replaced when a fault is found.

This really is a tragic, horrible thing to happen. But the only person to blame is the person that decided to walk a dog on a flexi next to a road


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

God how completely horrific  poor dog  must have been awful to witness. 

I use a flexi on both of mine when we're in the countryside where there are sheep. it means they can have freedom to sniff and go on ahead but they're still on lead and I can get them close to me when we're walking past sheep. 

I also sometimes use one on Izzy on our normal walks, I use it like a normal lead and hold the plastic part in one hand and wrap the tape around my other hand. We don't have any busy roads near our usual walks literally just side streets and cul-de-sacs where there's very low traffic but even so I wouldn't like people thinking I'm a fool for using one without knowing me or my dogs. 

I had a normal lead break on me near a road once, one of the scariest moments of my life as the snapping of the metal spooked Izzy and made her run forward a few feet. The clasp literally bent and this was a 2kg puppy on the other end, it wasn't a cheap lead but was obviously not well made and it makes me check equipment before every walk.


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## PetsBestBuddy (Oct 17, 2013)

After watching the videos on the flexi website, link kindly posted above by @Jamesgoeswalkies , I went on to watch more videos on youtube where people have had a flexi fail so have opened up the casing to try to repair them (stating that flexi leads are expensive to replace so would try to repair them instead of buying a new one). On one of those DIY repair videos, once the casing had been opened, you could clearly see that it was full of dust/grime. That particular flexi also had a wad of old dog hair matted around the cord, right inside at the end of the cord where it meets the internal reel and recoil spring. The dust/grime inside the casing is a build up of dust/dirt/grease, picked up on the cord or tape during normal use (we don't walk our dogs in sterile, dust free environments after all, do we ?) and pulled inside the casing every time the cord or tape retracts. That isn't something you can see from the outside and is clearly a build up from normal daily use. So even if a flexi looks and works ok, it will be choked up with dirt on the inside which will work its way into the internal moving parts, which I would say is the main cause of brake failure/failure to retract rather than someone not using the flexi correctly. As we don't have x-ray vision so cannot see this internal build up of dirt/dust/grime, maybe flexi leads should carry a warning stating that they should be replaced within a certain timescale - replacing more frequently if you walk your dog anywhere near muddy fields/parks/woods/tracks or beaches ?

I have just examined the leather lead I bought in 2004 after getting Missy. The leather is in good, sound condition with no stretching, cracks or tears. The stitching both at the hand loop and where the trigger clip is attached is in good sound condition, and there is no visible wear in the leather where it loops through the trigger clip before being stitched back onto itself. I have regularly cleaned/fed this lead with glycerine saddle soap throughout the 13 years I've had it and have oiled the leather twice yearly. I regularly check, clean and oil the spring on the trigger clip too. Just the same leather care as I did with leather horse tack over the years I owned/worked with horses.

Oh, and I have noticed that the trigger clip on my 13 year old leather lead is heavier and more solid than clips on more modern, and especially nylon, leads. Are manufacturers using cheaper, poorer quality metal to keep their costs down ? That could explain metal clips breaking. Poorer quality (cheaper) metal/metal compounds can have hidden structural hairline cracks which you know nothing about until after it has broken.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Dillon has a Halti training lead, a nylon one we have had for nealy 6 years, checked everyweek still no sign of wear.


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

I hate seeing them used by people using them on grass verges on the side of a road. I never understand why owners dont think if the dog can walk 10 feet behind, in front or to the side of them, why it can not get 10 feet into the road.

I can see the advantage of them if you have a new rescue dog which you dont trust off the lead yet. I used one with my old dog when his eyesight went to give him more freedom in the park,but it was always kept short on the way there


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

picaresque said:


> If anyone's curious...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Please tell me those dogs/owners was exaggerated for TV purposes...


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Blaise in Surrey said:


> So sorry CBC - ghastly for you and all concerned.
> 
> While I understand the argument 'but anything can fail', surely it's about making a risk assessment..... Any car and any driver can be involved in an accident, but by ensuring that the car I buy has the highest NCAP rating, and by taking an advanced drivers' course, and by sticking to the speed limit, and by maintaining a safe stopping distance......
> 
> ...


But it's not a dodgy design. No more IME than any other bit of equipment. They all have their flaws. I've been using the same flexi for over 10 years now! and before that Missy's was even older. If they was such a dodgy piece of equipment or unsafe I'm pretty sure I'd have gone through more than the two leads and/or reported issues with them failing to lock etc.

Also regarding roads, I personally believe they are safe to be used near by...probably not close to very fast/busy roads, but in general around villages etc I don't see an issue really. It's common sense to lock it whilst walking along the pavement but in the grand scheme of things the lead is not responsible for numerous road traffic deaths.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Out of curiosity for those who use a retractable lead, what are the advantages of a retractable lead over a simple long line? 

As a horse person, that I know of, there is no horse equipment equivalent to a retractable lead, yet we use long lines with horses all the time. I personally would much rather hold a strong horse on a long line than an awkward clumpy plastic handle. I imagine it would be the same with a dog? IDK....


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

I witnessed a dog almost being knocked down yesterday and I still feel quite shook up about it so I can't even begin to imagine how you or that poor family are feeling 

I don't use one and never will as I prefer and feel I have more control with a long line, but I believe flexis have their uses when used in appropriate places, in an appropriate way by appropriate people with appropriate dogs.

I've said this before but I think there should be a test/exam before being allowed to purchase them as the vast majority of people I see using them really haven't a clue. I've been tangled up in strangers flexis too many times now to believe they're suitable for the general public to use and that dreaded "clunk, clunk, clunk" as the lead doesn't lock and a dog is barrelling towards us makes me cringe.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Out of curiosity for those who use a retractable lead, what are the advantages of a retractable lead over a simple long line?
> 
> As a horse person, that I know of, there is no horse equipment equivalent to a retractable lead, yet we use long lines with horses all the time. I personally would much rather hold a strong horse on a long line than an awkward clumpy plastic handle. I imagine it would be the same with a dog? IDK....


I hate long lines and personally find them much more unreliable and unsafe especially when in use with Missy. I've used one in numerous scenarios and they always annoy the crap out of me 

I find it more difficult to reel in a long line and so much easier with a flexi which basically does the job for you. I also appreciate a large handle that I don't have to wrap around my hand etc.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> I find it more difficult to reel in a long line and so much easier with a flexi which basically does the job for you. I also appreciate a large handle that I don't have to wrap around my hand etc.


Never wrap anything around my hand. I might bring a leash or long line behind my waist and hold it there, but never wrap on my hand.

As for reeling, doesn't the dog have to be coming back to you to reel them in? How do you reel in a dog on a flexi who's not wanting to be reeled in? On a long line, they have no choice, on a flexi, it seems more complicated.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Never wrap anything around my hand. I might bring a leash or long line behind my waist and hold it there, but never wrap on my hand.
> 
> As for reeling, doesn't the dog have to be coming back to you to reel them in? How do you reel in a dog on a flexi who's not wanting to be reeled in? On a long line, they have no choice, on a flexi, it seems more complicated.


Not really, no. If the dog has a reliable wait you can walk to them whilst reeling them in. It's not complicated at all, although probably sounds it. You'd still have the same issue with a long line in that you can't reel them in if they're playing silly buggers around you or refusing to come close. You have to gather the lead and reduce the length of it the closer you get to the dog.

My line has no handle so I do tend to have to wrap it around my hand once or twice for added safety. I have used one with a handle though which was much better, but I can't be bothered to buy another one.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

I have used a long line but found it more difficult to control and gave it up after it got tangled round my legs and had me over.

My fault I know but the flexi lead rolled back in and was much easier for me to manage. To keep gathering the long line and letting it out again was a pain ( literally after I fell) so went back to the flext


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

picaresque said:


> If anyone's curious...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





stuaz said:


> Please tell me those dogs/owners was exaggerated for TV purposes...


Yes whilst they obviously had 'issues' that bloke was completely hamming it up for the cameras (if he wasn't I don't know how his wife or son lived with him )



ouesi said:


> Out of curiosity for those who use a retractable lead, what are the advantages of a retractable lead over a simple long line?
> 
> As a horse person, that I know of, there is no horse equipment equivalent to a retractable lead, yet we use long lines with horses all the time. I personally would much rather hold a strong horse on a long line than an awkward clumpy plastic handle. I imagine it would be the same with a dog? IDK....


I like a retractable lead to give mine a little more freedom when they can't be off lead, the reasons I don't use a long line with them is I'm a bit of a princess  and I hate reeling in and holding onto a long wet muddy lead that is covered in mud and shit


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## AmyRedd (Nov 9, 2015)

MontyMaude said:


> Yes whilst they obviously had 'issues' that bloke was completely hamming it up for the cameras (if he wasn't I don't know how his wife or son lived with him )
> 
> I like a retractable lead to give mine a little more freedom when they can't be off lead, the reasons I don't use a long line with them is I'm a bit of a princess  and I hate reeling in and holding onto a long wet muddy lead that is covered in mud and shit


This is exactly why I use a flexi as well. Just found the long line too heavy and annoying for me and my dog so I have a flexi for countryside and canal routes when he can't be let off the lead.... but the topic of this thread is also the reason I hide the flexi lead so my boyfriend and his dad don't use it because they have no problems using it near roads


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> Not really, no. If the dog has a reliable wait you can walk to them whilst reeling them in. It's not complicated at all, although probably sounds it. You'd still have the same issue with a long line in that you can't reel them in if they're playing silly buggers around you or refusing to come close. You have to gather the lead and reduce the length of it the closer you get to the dog.
> 
> My line has no handle so I do tend to have to wrap it around my hand once or twice for added safety. I have used one with a handle though which was much better, but I can't be bothered to buy another one.


And if the dog doesn't have a reliable wait? How do you get a dog back on a flexi who doesn't want to come back? I ask, because I see it all the time, dogs out on the end of the flexi, totally out of control, and the owners can't reel them back in.

On a long line, I can reel them back in, doesn't matter what they're doing, if I need to get them back in, I can. I can't on a flexi. Yes, I have used them, usually holding dogs for someone else, hate them, much prefer a long line. But I'm also very adept at long lines from years of working horses. And nope, you never wrap the line around your hand  Don't need to if you hold it right. If you need more weight in to the line I have on occasion wrapped it behind me so the line is behind my back and I can hold it with both hands (and the weight of my body).

There is a reason you don't ever see folks doing protection work with flexis either LOL!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

OMG i HATE long lines. I think im just too poorly co-ordinated/cack-handed to use one.

I found i had less control, that it took me ten times longer to get my dog back to me when someone was coming, that it got caught on every little root, stone, or sticking out thing, and it probably added over an hour to my walks as i spent so much time unwrapping it from around trees and objects. Maybe ok for an open space or field, useless for woodlands with loads of cyclists and horse riders.

Plus they are longer (on the whole) which allowed my dog to get up waaaayyyy too much speed and momentum. When Ned is being a dick on his Flexi, and can put on instant breaks - with a long line i had to gather in the slack first. Time consuming. Annoying. Neck jarring.

Plus yeah, the wet and mud and not having a free hand for anything else. 

I also dont get trailing long lines. My dog doesnt run in circles around me, leaving me the option of treading on the lead; he runs (fast) in a straight line and can cover about 40m in a matter of seconds. Id end up with no dog and no lead.

I dont reel Ned in either, i get him to sit and go to him. He's good at this. Its called training. Something people use a Flexi for instead of making effort. Same as driving to the middle of a rural area and letting a dog with high prey drive and poor recall, off lead for a romp as its away from roads and 'safe', which is oh so common, and oh so annoying.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Nonnie said:


> I dont reel Ned in either, i get him to sit and go to him. He's good at this. Its called training.


Oh if we're going to play smug, why not train your dog to not need a leash at all 

No, seriously though, I use a long line with new rescues. We live on 20 acres and don't have fences anywhere. A new dog comes here, they can't go out unless they're leashed, and giving them some freedom via a long line help me to learn them without risking them getting lost forever. 
So, because these are new rescues on long lines, forgive me for not having taught them a stay or wait in the 24 hours they have been here. By 25 hours they'll have their CGC and novice obedience title, but for those first 24, I need a long line, and they won't be trained to wait and sit pretty while I reel it in.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

How do we think we could increase public awareness of the potential dangers of flexi-leads and how to use them safely? 

In my experience (and admittedly I've never really spoken to anyone in great detail about it outside the discussions on here), most people using flexi-leads just don't have any concept of their limitations. Hence they would quite happily use them near roads etc. 

I would say folk on here are selected for their interest in dog matters and may not represent the general dog-owning population in general. Not everyone is as savvy.

If the packaging doesn't say (and I'm sure not everyone reads it anyway) how do we get the message to people?


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## Doggiedelight (Jan 27, 2015)

cbcdesign said:


> So it finally happened, in front of me, my fears for these dreadful leads has come to be.
> 
> We just went out for our walk and 75 yards ahead of us stood on the edge of the road waiting to cross are two women, a couple of kids and two little dogs, both on flexi leads. One of the dogs got scared ran out into the road got hit really hard by a car (I can still hear the noise) and was killed outright. The poor driver has not yet felt the full force of the guilt that will hit him later but as I told him, there was nothing he could have done.
> 
> ...


Very very sad and so awful for the owners and children 

However please have less of the "you people". I use one of these leads when im out in the woods and on beaches. Like anything. They are right and wrong ways to use them.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

I've hated Flexi leads ever since in the space of two hours a Westie then a JRT shot out of nowhere on a crowded street in the middle of town to attack my tiny Tibetan Spaniel. In both cases their owners were so engrossed in doing something else they didn't notice what the dog was doing.

Unless it's somewhere I can safely let my two off leash, I normally walk them on two metre .leads which gives them a certain freedom to explore, but can be shortened when I need to keep them close to me. Even if I liked Flexi leads when you walk two dogs they're impractical.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Oh if we're going to play smug, why not train your dog to not need a leash at all


Wheres the up yours smiley?

Serious note - i have one of those 'insufficiently motivated' [stubborn as ****] dogs. Im overly cautious not to test his recall/training as he's 'at that age'. I always work on the worst case scenario, so dont take too many risks. Perhaps im a bit paranoid and dont have enough faith in my training. Or perhaps i know what an awkward, smart and stubborn little shit my dog is.

Its a process after all - maybe we'll get there, maybe we wont. I get my limitations as a normal, every day, dog owner, so will use a tool which i feel is appropriate and enables my dog, and others, to be safe.

Gotta love peace of mind.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> My line has no handle so I do tend to have to wrap it around my hand once or twice for added safety. I have used one with a handle though which was much better, but I can't be bothered to buy another one.


To save buying another one (especially if you don't use them often) you can tie a double knot on the end so you have a grab point.
But if you loop it up like this picture 








And use your other hand to take the strain, then you don't need a handle 

I know you are happy using your flexi, I just thought I'd post this to save any more hands being wrapped in lines because that is a sure fire way to get rope burns or even risk dislocation or even a break.


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## CollieSlave (May 5, 2016)

PetsBestBuddy said:


> After watching the videos on the flexi website, link kindly posted above by @Jamesgoeswalkies , I went on to watch more videos on youtube where people have had a flexi fail so have opened up the casing to try to repair them (stating that flexi leads are expensive to replace so would try to repair them instead of buying a new one). On one of those DIY repair videos, once the casing had been opened, you could clearly see that it was full of dust/grime. That particular flexi also had a wad of old dog hair matted around the cord, right inside at the end of the cord where it meets the internal reel and recoil spring. The dust/grime inside the casing is a build up of dust/dirt/grease, picked up on the cord or tape during normal use (we don't walk our dogs in sterile, dust free environments after all, do we ?) and pulled inside the casing every time the cord or tape retracts. That isn't something you can see from the outside and is clearly a build up from normal daily use. So even if a flexi looks and works ok, it will be choked up with dirt on the inside which will work its way into the internal moving parts, which I would say is the main cause of brake failure/failure to retract rather than someone not using the flexi correctly. As we don't have x-ray vision so cannot see this internal build up of dirt/dust/grime, maybe flexi leads should carry a warning stating that they should be replaced within a certain timescale - replacing more frequently if you walk your dog anywhere near muddy fields/parks/woods/tracks or beaches ?
> 
> I have just examined the leather lead I bought in 2004 after getting Missy. The leather is in good, sound condition with no stretching, cracks or tears. The stitching both at the hand loop and where the trigger clip is attached is in good sound condition, and there is no visible wear in the leather where it loops through the trigger clip before being stitched back onto itself. I have regularly cleaned/fed this lead with glycerine saddle soap throughout the 13 years I've had it and have oiled the leather twice yearly. I regularly check, clean and oil the spring on the trigger clip too. Just the same leather care as I did with leather horse tack over the years I owned/worked with horses.
> 
> *Oh, and I have noticed that the trigger clip on my 13 year old leather lead is heavier and more solid than clips on more modern, and especially nylon, leads. Are manufacturers using cheaper, poorer quality metal to keep their costs down ? That could explain metal clips breaking. Poorer quality (cheaper) metal/metal compounds can have hidden structural hairline cracks which you know nothing about until after it has broken*.


I have only had a trigger clip break once in very many years. The end sheared off. Close examination revealed that the chrome plated clip was a zinc die-casting. This is both cheap to make and very brittle - hence it broke!! The clip should be steel or, perhaps, brass (though chrome plated typically). It is impossible to tell what metal is used - unless/until the clip breaks! And the lead which had a broken clip was an expensive leather one from a (nominally) high-class maker!!!


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Nonnie said:


> Wheres the up yours smiley?


Right here :Finger
I was using it as a thumbs up there for a while, no telling who I pissed off with that! 

I know a lot of people who use flexis responsibly with *trained* dogs. They're pretty common at dog shows in pottying areas for example.

Unfortunately the vast majority of people who use flexis are not responsible dog owners with trained dogs. So what I tend to see more than anything are dogs who have gone out to the 20 feet of their flexi and are completely out of control, while the tape is tripping people up and the dog is running around causing havoc. It's so bad that many venues now ban the use of flexis. These are dog-friendly areas, that specifically say you have to have your dog on a fixed leash, not a retractable one.

Which is why I asked, how do you reel in a dog on a flexi who doesn't want to be reeled in. You have a trained dog, @Dogloverlou has a trained dog... none of that answers my question about a dog who doesn't *want* to be reeled back in. 
On a long line, I promise, I can get the dog back in, no problem. On a flexi, I can't. So was wondering if perhaps you knew something I didn't.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> And if the dog doesn't have a reliable wait? How do you get a dog back on a flexi who doesn't want to come back? I ask, because I see it all the time, dogs out on the end of the flexi, totally out of control, and the owners can't reel them back in.
> 
> On a long line, I can reel them back in, doesn't matter what they're doing, if I need to get them back in, I can. I can't on a flexi. Yes, I have used them, usually holding dogs for someone else, hate them, much prefer a long line. But I'm also very adept at long lines from years of working horses. And nope, you never wrap the line around your hand  Don't need to if you hold it right. If you need more weight in to the line I have on occasion wrapped it behind me so the line is behind my back and I can hold it with both hands (and the weight of my body).
> 
> There is a reason you don't ever see folks doing protection work with flexis either LOL!


Then you just physically reel them in, pulling them back on the lead to encourage them to come. It's really not hard and also the flexi automatically retracts when ever your dog stops/gets close to you etc so it's much easier. How do you physically get a dog back on a long line that won't return? It's the same for either lead really.

I use a long line for tracking and some other training activities so I am aware on how to use it correctly. I just find them cumbersome and unsafe and personally don't want to spend the majority of my walk allowing/gathering in lead the whole time and that's why I prefer the flexi.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> How do you physically get a dog back on a long line that won't return? It's the same for either lead really.


But it's not.

On a long line I can put my hand anywhere on the line and have control, on a flexi, I am stuck with my hand on the handle (which is clumpy, big, and cumbersome) and I can't take that hand off the handle because if you're reeling the dog in you have to hold the lock button. So with a long line where I can easily hand over hand and get the dog back, on a flexi I can't do that. 
On a long line, I can hold the line like reins, hand over top. I can bring the line behind me and put my weight in to it to hold the dog. Flexi doesn't allow for any of that.

YOU may find it easy, but clearly the vast majority of users don't otherwise you wouldn't see so many dogs extended fully on their flexis with their owners unable to get them back.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Right here :Finger
> I was using it as a thumbs up there for a while, no telling who I pissed off with that!
> 
> I know a lot of people who use flexis responsibly with *trained* dogs. They're pretty common at dog shows in pottying areas for example.
> ...


Well, you can reel them in i guess. You pull them and your arm right back with the break on, then quickly release the break, shoot arm forward to take in the slack and then repeat until the dog is closer to you. Get a good few feet each go.

Probably no good with a heavy dog though. But i imagine the same with a long line.

If Ned doesnt want to move out of someones way or come back to me, then he goes to ground and leans away from me as he knows he its too heavy and too strong for me to drag. Plus i wouldnt anyway - very stony where i live.

Neds worse on his short lead though. If he doesnt want to go anywhere, or wants to delay going home, he's just throw himself on the floor and rolls around on his back; usually in the middle of the road whilst holding up traffic.

I personally dont think Flexis should be used near other dogs or people, or on a dogs collar, but then i dont think slip leads should be used on dogs who pull, or that headcollars should be used whilst jogging with your dog, or left on when they are off lead. I see these things and more on a daily basis. The dog owning population is, on a whole, fecking ignorant and a liability.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> But it's not.
> 
> On a long line I can put my hand anywhere on the line and have control, on a flexi, I am stuck with my hand on the handle (which is clumpy, big, and cumbersome) and I can't take that hand off the handle because if you're reeling the dog in you have to hold the lock button. So with a long line where I can easily hand over hand and get the dog back, on a flexi I can't do that.
> On a long line, I can hold the line like reins, hand over top. I can bring the line behind me and put my weight in to it to hold the dog. Flexi doesn't allow for any of that.
> ...


But to reel a dog back on a long line you still need to gather in the loose lead? If the dog is refusing to come you may have to tug them back to you, or walk towards them gathering the lead in as you go.

I've never felt any semblance of control on a long line tbh, and even when I'm using them in training I find myself standing very firmly in place and having to really concentrate on when to shorten the length of line and when to allow more freedom etc, and I've also had a few pulled out from my hand too.

You don't hold the lock button on a flexi to reel them back in. You only lock it once you have them at the length of lead you require and it's a quick thumb press and lock and you're done. Takes less than a second.

Some people can't get their head around using one and that's fine, just as I can't really get my head around using a line. You just use what works for you and I personally find it easy & effective.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Nonnie said:


> Well, you can reel them in i guess. You pull them and your arm right back with the break on, then quickly release the break, shoot arm forward to take in the slack and then repeat until the dog is closer to you. Get a good few feet each go.
> 
> Probably no good with a heavy dog though. But i imagine the same with a long line.


This is the only way I know how also, and it's near impossible with a heavy dog or a quick dog.

I picture flexis as a good option for trained dogs, older dogs who's sight and hearing may be failing, quick potty breaks, that sort of thing. 
But they're marketed as an every day leash, suitable for all dogs, all owners, to be used whenever, wherever. They're not. They're a specific tool for specific purposes IMHO.


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Out of curiosity for those who use a retractable lead, what are the advantages of a retractable lead over a simple long line?


 I haven't read right through all the replies but here is why i prefer one, Pip likes to run ahead have a sniff then as i get ahead he runs past again to the next sniff, so i'd be always reeling a long line in and out, most of the time he will recall when needed but if not i can pull him back by applying the brake and pulling my arm back, keep repeating till he has either got the message or he is reeled in. We also use a long line but tend to just let that trail so we can grab in an emergency.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> I've never felt any semblance of control on a long line tbh, and even when I'm using them in training I find myself standing very firmly in place and having to really concentrate on when to shorten the length of line and when to allow more freedom etc, and I've also had a few pulled out from my hand too.


Mmm. And when a flexi gets pulled from your hand what happens? Vs. a long line?
A long line lays there on the ground where you can step on it, or worst case scenario get tangled up in it and go pasture skiing while adding significant drag to the escaping animal and thus slowing them down. 
A flexi gets dropped on the ground and retracts. Potentially injuring the dog (or other dogs) in the process. Or worse the clip breaks and whizzes back via the retracting mechanism with a metal shard attached to it. 
Or the flexi handle hangs there and starts "chasing" the dog as they run, thus freaking the dog out and encouraging them to continue running.

FWIW, I'm not making any of these scenarios up. I have personally dropped long lines a bazillion times with both horses and dogs and it has never been an issue.
On the other hand, I have heard first hand from dog owners the drama of dropping a flexi lead handle and the dog freaking out, or the potential damage as it retracts.


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

ouesi said:


> But they're marketed as an every day leash, suitable for all dogs, all owners, to be used whenever, wherever. They're not.


 I agree.


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

ouesi said:


> Mmm. And when a flexi gets pulled from your hand what happens?


 It can't its attached to my wrist with a strap (i know you weren't asking me just thought i'd tell you how i avoid the issue)


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Mmm. And when a flexi gets pulled from your hand what happens? Vs. a long line?
> A long line lays there on the ground where you can step on it, or worst case scenario get tangled up in it and go pasture skiing while adding significant drag to the escaping animal and thus slowing them down.
> A flexi gets dropped on the ground and retracts. Potentially injuring the dog (or other dogs) in the process. Or worse the clip breaks and whizzes back via the retracting mechanism with a metal shard attached to it.
> Or the flexi handle hangs there and starts "chasing" the dog as they run, thus freaking the dog out and encouraging them to continue running.
> ...


I've never dropped a flexi myself so don't really know. Although I'd imagine it would be the last scenario if it was locked which you're right could freak a dog out. But is that enough of a reason to consider them awful contraptions? Like, I'm not going to use a certain tool because X,Y or Z might happen, you know? Certainly doesn't even enter my head on a day to day basis.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> But is that enough of a reason to consider them awful contraptions? Like, I'm not going to use a certain tool because X,Y or Z might happen, you know?


Well, that's for each individual to decide isn't it?
I don't know where you're getting "awful contraptions" from. I certainly never said that, just that I prefer a long line. Which I do. So yes, for me, knowing the failings of a flexi, knowing my abilities and my needs with a dog, that I use long lines with new rescues who I don't know a whole lot about, then yes, for me, it's reason enough to avoid using them. For you it's not.

Apologies to anyone who doesn't have FB, but this video (horse video) is a perfect example of why you use a stationary line is preferable the larger the animal gets  
And plus it's just plain funny!

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Expressclydesdales/videos/?ref=page_internal


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Well, that's for each individual to decide isn't it?
> I don't know where you're getting "awful contraptions" from. I certainly never said that, just that I prefer a long line. Which I do. So yes, for me, knowing the failings of a flexi, knowing my abilities and my needs with a dog, that I use long lines with new rescues who I don't know a whole lot about, then yes, for me, it's reason enough to avoid using them. For you it's not.
> 
> Apologies to anyone who doesn't have FB, but this video (horse video) is a perfect example of why you use a stationary line is preferable the larger the animal gets
> ...


And that's fair enough. You asked why I preferred them over long lines, I've answered why, and we just have different opinions/preferences to which we choose to use


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> You asked why I preferred them over long lines,


No, actually I asked what advantages does a flexi have over a long line. And how do you reel in a dog who doesn't want to be reeled in.

None of the answers have convinced me that there are any advantages of a flexi over a long line or that using a flexi with an untrained dog is a good idea. 
Which goes back to what they're marketed for - as equivalent to a leash, which they are most certainly not....


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

ouesi said:


> No, actually I asked what advantages does a flexi have over a long line. And how do you reel in a dog who doesn't want to be reeled in.
> 
> None of the answers have convinced me that there are any advantages of a flexi over a long line or that using a flexi with an untrained dog is a good idea.
> Which goes back to what they're marketed for - as equivalent to a leash, which they are most certainly not....


When did the thread become a flexi vs long line debate? I wasn't trying to convince you a flexi is better. Just stating why I choose to use one and why I prefer them.

It all comes down to personal experiences too. I know it sounds impossible, but I've never seen them used wrongly by other people either. Never been in a pet shop and had someone's dog wander over to mine with a fully extended lead, never seen them dropped, or seen someone with an out of control dog battling to gain control of their dog. So of course, my experiences are going to form differing opinions to your own. Or perhaps more people than you think do know how to responsibly use them and have no issues.


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

I think if you whittle it down to the basics the only advantage is you don't have to keep gathering the line in. Of course how much hassle that is then depends on what you do and where, here the line ends up covered in mud or sand then has to be put somewhere (while wet and muddy) when switching to the normal lead. The Flexi gets popped in the rucksack. A biothene (spelling) line helps but it still needs wiping and they are very expensive.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Yep, the basics are I just find them easier to control, simple as really. I just haven't got the patience to faff around with the long line, but I appreciate they have their place and are a better option for others.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Out of curiosity for those who use a retractable lead, what are the advantages of a retractable lead over a simple long line?
> 
> As a horse person, that I know of, there is no horse equipment equivalent to a retractable lead, yet we use long lines with horses all the time. I personally would much rather hold a strong horse on a long line than an awkward clumpy plastic handle. I imagine it would be the same with a dog? IDK....


Actually the heaviest flexi was marketed for lunging horses. I did try it once but did not like it as much as a lunge rein. With a dog though I love flexis and hate long lines. I can think of loads of advantages with a flexi. You can get a dog back very quickly and have it on a short lead in seconds with no extra lead trailing. You can avoid tripping people up with it a you can have the dog back in a fraction of a second. It is not a filthy mess trailing in the dirt. It has a very different use as far as I am concerned. I would use a long line of some sort for a dog that I wanted to be able to run loose but would be easy to tread on the long line or pick it up but would never use it to actually hold on to and walk a dog. I am sure we all have our preferences but to me a long line is dangerous and inefficient and to others it is a good tool. To me and many others a flexi lead is a good tool and to others it is dangerous and inefficient. Maybe no one is right and nothing is wrong with either of them.

by the way I have used flexi leads on many dogs over the years. When I had kennels I always put one on a dog that pulled and found it cured them and allowed them a much more enjoyable walk with a fair bit of freedom.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

ouesi said:


> https://www.facebook.com/pg/Expressclydesdales/videos/?ref=page_internal


Pahahahhaahhahaha, someone was having fun :Hilarious


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Blitz said:


> Actually the heaviest flexi was marketed for lunging horses.


Do you have a link for that or further info? I've never seen anything retractable used for horses - not saying it doesn't exist, just that I've never seen it.
Now, bungee leashes and lead ropes, yes, but not retractable.

And yes, I agree, they're a good tool for some, in some circumstances. I've said so on this thread. 
I also think flexis can be incredibly dangerous. Their locking mechanism alone is notorious for failing. I've seen it happen myself on so many occasions I don't have enough fingers and toes to count.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

StormyThai said:


> Pahahahhaahhahaha, someone was having fun :Hilarious


I know, I laughed and laughed watching that. I wish I could find it on youtube to share properly!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I know, I laughed and laughed watching that. I wish I could find it on youtube to share properly!


I wish I could say that something similar hasn't happened to me...going face first into a deep puddle and then grass skidding off was not my finest moment :Bag
I didn't let go though 

Also mine wasn't captured on video so win for me hehe


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

steveshanks said:


> It can't its attached to my wrist with a strap (i know you weren't asking me just thought i'd tell you how i avoid the issue)


Very sensible! That's another issue with these things I dislike. I have never seen anybody attached to them other than holding them via the plastic grip handle, something easily dropped by the older person with arthritic joints in their hands that can on occasion lose grip.

This thread for me reveals several things:-

1. Some that use them think they are fine but not near roads (So not safe then)
2. Others say they hold down the brake to make sure they don't slip (So not safe then)
3. If dropped they retract unlike a lead or long line you can stand on(so not safe then)

So where does that leave us? Really the only advantage they seem to offer is a means of providing a retractable long line for training in safe enclosed spaces well away from vehicles and other moving hazards. Are they marketed like that? Are they hell. They are sold in veterinary outlets, in supermarkets and in pet stores as an alternative to a standard leash but have a myriad of issues that render them potentially lethal as that poor family and dog found out yesterday

I awoke at 4AM today reliving that hideous incident. I still pass the bus stop several times a day where the poor little thing was killed. Its something I don't wish to see again in my lifetime.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

I didn't like the above for the content but just to show you make a valid point.



cbcdesign said:


> I awoke at 4AM today reliving that hideous incident. I still pass the bus stop several times a day where the poor little thing was killed. Its something I don't wish to see again in my lifetime.


I am so sorry  You have most certainly been traumatized by this experience as any caring individual would be. Be gentle with yourself.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

This thread is clearly causing some controversy and hurt feelings , obviously a sensitive subject. Please bear this in mind when posting or the topic will be closd.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Do you have a link for that or further info? I've never seen anything retractable used for horses - not saying it doesn't exist, just that I've never seen it.
> Now, bungee leashes and lead ropes, yes, but not retractable.
> 
> And yes, I agree, they're a good tool for some, in some circumstances. I've said so on this thread.
> I also think flexis can be incredibly dangerous. Their locking mechanism alone is notorious for failing. I've seen it happen myself on so many occasions I don't have enough fingers and toes to count.


I think though that most people (well me at least) could easily lose control of a long line so would be downright dangerous. I cant imagine why people walk dogs by the road on a flexi, as someone else said if the dog can range ahead and behind it can go in the road. That has nothing to do with dog sense just normal intelligence. Surely it would be just as dangerous to walk along next to a busy road holding the end of a 6 foot lead.

I do not have a link for the flexi lead for horses, I just remember the first heavy duty one I bought (pre internet) stating on the packaging that it was also suitable for lunging horses.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Very sensible! That's another issue with these things I dislike. I have never seen anybody attached to them other than holding them via the plastic grip handle, something easily dropped by the older person with arthritic joints in their hands that can on occasion lose grip.
> 
> This thread for me reveals several things:-
> 
> ...


I am so sorry that you saw this and that it is preying on your mind - quite naturally.

to reply to your points though - what makes them unsafe. Would you take a dog by a road on a long line. If you did decide to would you not fold it up and anchor it at a short length (no difference to holding the brake). If you drop it then that is a disadvantage but not unsafe as you can grab it again.

How about people taking some responsibility for their actions. If you consider buying something you consider whether it is suitable for your purpose. Not blame the manufacturer because you have used it inappropriately or made a mistake in buying something that you had not thought out before buying


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I've tried a long line a couple of times and tripped myself up, got covered in mud and generally didn't like it one bit, so I'll stick with the flexi which has not snapped, had the brake fail and has worked well with all my dogs. I've used them for coming onto 25 years and not had any of the issues some have mentioned. Have I just been exceptionally lucky?


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Blitz said:


> I think though that most people (well me at least) could easily lose control of a long line so would be downright dangerous. I cant imagine why people walk dogs by the road on a flexi, as someone else said if the dog can range ahead and behind it can go in the road. That has nothing to do with dog sense just normal intelligence.
> .


These things are sold as retractable leads for walking dogs. They are not sold as training aids replacement for long lines. This is why people use them near roads. Lets not forget either that what may be common sense to some is not common sense to others.

As you can imagine I have spoken to several people today who use these devices on their walks and all of them commented on the reliability of the brake mechanism and the necessity to apply the brake by hand and hold it down to prevent slippage. Now is this mentioned in the instructions? If not why not and why is the leash designed in such a way that convenience for the owner has been prioritised over safety for the dog?

People have to take action to apply a brake and stop the lead extending. In some cases people are holding the brake on because they are not confident it can be relied upon. Its a flawed design and these devices should not be sold as they are because of it. Sell them as training aids for use is safe areas by all means but not as an everyday leash.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

cbcdesign said:


> These things are sold as retractable leads for walking dogs. They are not sold as training aids replacement for long lines. This is why people use them near roads. Lets not forget either that what may be common sense to some is not common sense to others.
> 
> As you can imagine I have spoken to several people today who use these devices on their walks and all of them commented on the reliability of the brake mechanism and the necessity to apply the brake by hand and hold it down to prevent slippage. Now is this mentioned in the instructions? If not why not and why is the leash designed in such a way that convenience for the owner has been prioritised over safety for the dog?
> 
> People have to take action to apply a brake and stop the lead extending. In some cases people are holding the brake on because they are not confident it can be relied upon. Its a flawed design and these devices should not be sold as they are because of it. Sell them as training aids for use is safe areas by all means but not as an everyday leash.


Are these the Flexi brand of flexi lead? I've not had brake slippage on any of mine which are the Flexi brand. I know the cheaper versions are not so good


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Siskin said:


> Are these the Flexi brand of flexi lead? I've not had brake slippage on any of mine which are the Flexi brand. I know the cheaper versions are not so good


Who knows but the flexi brand has the same basic design flaw as the others as far as I am aware in so much as it is possible to leave the brake off by accident.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Blitz said:


> Not blame the manufacturer because you have used it inappropriately


The problem is, these leashes are marketed as regular, every day, every situation leashes. The average pet owner doesn't think through the appropriate uses of equipment. Be that a failing on the dog owner's part or the manufacturers part seems irrelevant once a dog is dead.

Out of curiosity I looked at Flexi's own youtube channel to see if they have any instructions on safe use. I found this video. My first issue is attaching a flexi to the dog's neck. Personally I think long lines and flexis should only ever be attached to body harnesses. 
Note there is no mention about not using them near roads...






They do make a big deal about the safety collar to avoid snap back - because so many people have been injured by the clip failing. Does anyone even use the safety collar the flexi comes with?


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

This is the way a typical pet outlet advertises the flexi:-
http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/p...leads/comfort-grip-granite-extending-dog-lead

There is no mention of this device as a training aid. It is sold as a comfortable easy to use leash and noted in the design listing is a section about the brake allowing the leash to be an appropriate length. Ordinary dog owners will see this as an alternative to a fixed leash because that is how they are sold. To quote directly from the write up "Walking your dog will have never felt less of a strain, with the Comfort Grip Granite Extending Dog Lead by Flexi."

I notice in that video too all the narration revolves around the use, convenience and safety for the end user, nothing whatsoever about features where the dogs safety has factored into its design.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I do agree that the manufacturers have dropped the ball in regards to when and where they are appropriate to use.

That said, i doubt anyone reads the leaflet that comes with one anyway, so even if it came with a step by step idiots guide, people would still use them incorrectly.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Nonnie said:


> I do agree that the manufacturers have dropped the ball in regards to when and where they are appropriate to use.
> 
> That said, i doubt anyone reads the leaflet that comes with one anyway, so even if it came with a step by step idiots guide, people would still use them incorrectly.


It's the person on the other end that is often the problem rather then the lead I think


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Nonnie said:


> I do agree that the manufacturers have dropped the ball in regards to when and where they are appropriate to use.
> 
> That said, i doubt anyone reads the leaflet that comes with one anyway, so even if it came with a step by step idiots guide, people would still use them incorrectly.


To be fair, all of you using your flexis with a body harness are using them incorrectly because you're not using the safety collar....


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Siskin said:


> It's the person on the other end that is often the problem rather then the lead I think


Well Flexi themselves show them attached to the dogs collar and is what they recommend, despite the obvious danger of injury to the dog. No mention of a harness anywhere.

Thats a balls up at the starting gate is it not?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Obviously when someone who is against flexi leads sees an accident they are bound to be even more against them but honestly, if you buy a 6 foot lead do you expect it to have instructions to hold it short when it is not appropriate to have the dog 6 feet away from you or to check the condition of the clip or handle daily. That would be ridiculous and I am sure manufacturers of retractable leads would think it ridiculous to put such a warning on their product. Take responsibility for your actions not expect someone else to do it for you.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I think you will find that flexi leads were made long before the fashion of using harnesses and long before comfortable and safe harnesses were available. I have always used them on collars and always will as do many others and originally every flexi lead user.


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## steveshanks (Feb 19, 2015)

cbcdesign said:


> 1. Some that use them think they are fine but not near roads (So not safe then)
> 2. Others say they hold down the brake to make sure they don't slip (So not safe then)
> 3. If dropped they retract unlike a lead or long line you can stand on(so not safe then)


1 I wouldn't use a long line near a road either, i swap
2 Mines never slipped
3 Fasten them to your wrist
I guess its like everything if you don't use it right, i saw a bulldog run across the last year, the guy caught it and carried on walking with the lead (standard) looped around his little finger....Saw a guy with a greyhound on the beach with a long line fastened to his neck.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

At the end of the day, once you have seen an animal lose their life in a shocking way, either through equipment or operator failure, it affects you. I'm very glad so many of you have not seen an animal die horrifically through equipment or operator error. But many of us have, and it affects you, sometimes in way you may not really understand or know how to deal with. 
So I completely understand and empathize with @cbcdesign reaction and anger at the product and people who use them cavalierly.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

ouesi said:


> At the end of the day, once you have seen an animal lose their life in a shocking way, either through equipment or operator failure, it affects you. I'm very glad so many of you have not seen an animal die horrifically through equipment or operator error. But many of us have, and it affects you, sometimes in way you may not really understand or know how to deal with.
> So I completely understand and empathize with @cbcdesign reaction and anger at the product and people who use them cavalierly.


I have seen many animals die through both unavoidable and avoidable circumstances but I would not call a failed locking mechanism (or maybe just handler error) any more tragic than a failed clip. It is called an accident and though I sympathise with the OP I do not think it right to have a go at the many on here that happily and safely use their flexi leads - some for decades.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I find it quite sad that because some find it such a flawed design/unsafe to use and anyone who uses one is just waiting for an accident to happen, yet If I was to come on here stating how my lead clip detached on my regular short lead/collar broke or whatever and my dog had caused an accident/been involved in one themselves I'd likely be reassured it wasn't my fault, just one of those unfortunate accidents in life, not to beat myself up etc etc. Some things are just tragic accidents regardless of the tool used.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Blitz said:


> I have seen many animals die through both unavoidable and avoidable circumstances but I would not call a failed locking mechanism (or maybe just handler error) any more tragic than a failed clip. It is called an accident and though I sympathise with the OP I do not think it right to have a go at the many on here that happily and safely use their flexi leads - some for decades.


I didn't think the OP was having a go at anyone.
And on the one hand you say accidents happen yet two posts ago you say take responsibility.


Blitz said:


> Take responsibility for your actions not expect someone else to do it for you.


The fact is, it's both isn't it?
I've seen animals die due to genuine accidents, and I've seen animals die after the owner was repeatedly warned about using the equipment the way they were. The preventable deaths make me much angrier.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I used to use flexi on my Saint Bernard attached to her collar, and I used to be able to reel her in on it (I also think it was design for a much lower weight than she was too as I found the correct one too big and cumbersome :Shy) I also walked her near roads and I have and probably still will walk mine through town on a flexi lead (I do keep them locked to a short length when walking through town or next to a road, as I'm stupid but not _*that *_stupid )

I did use a lunge lead on the Saint Bernard but after I tried to stop her bolting one day and stood on the line as it whizzed past me but it just sent me flying, so I never did it again and used the flexi as I find them far easier and cleaner to use.

The only lead I have seen fail was a chain lead with a very pully Staff on the end of it and the chain just ping right in the middle.

I think it's all horses for courses and you use what you prefer and what works for you, I think most of the issues with leads comes down to user error by the human on t'other end of it.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

cbcdesign said:


> This was a foreseeable and avoidable accident, that's the point. I prefer to have my hand on the lead that is attached to my dog and cannot extend all by itself, not rely on a spool and a plastic lock that can fail or be forgotten. Some have to learn the hard way unfortunately, I have done it this way for years, nobody will tell me different. No doubt the lady that just saw her dog killed liked flexis too but I suspect she is not a fan anymore!


Very sad and awful to witness, I'm sure 

I do use a flexi but place the handle in one hand and hold the tape in my other hand "normal lead fashion" when walking near roads. So I do not rely on the handle/locking mechanism except when in an area that would be deemed safe for off lead dogs. My dog is, therefore, at no greater risk of harm or accident than anyone else's dog in those circumstances. Unless the clip fails, which could happen on a normal lead just as easily.

If standing waiting to cross, I usually also hold onto his harness too.

Unfortunately, this was an unfortunate accident and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the woman was mistaken and had not locked the lead, or inadvertently caught the unlock button.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I've had a clip fail on a six foot lead once and a a ring part on a collar. Seems there are accidents waiting to happen all over the place


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Dogloverlou said:


> I find it quite sad that because some find it such a flawed design/unsafe to use and anyone who uses one is just waiting for an accident to happen, yet If I was to come on here stating how my lead clip detached on my regular short lead/collar broke or whatever and my dog had caused an accident/been involved in one themselves I'd likely be reassured it wasn't my fault, just one of those unfortunate accidents in life, not to beat myself up etc etc. Some things are just tragic accidents regardless of the tool used.


If you came on here (heaven forbid) with any reason for your dog being injured or worse, I would hope that the forum would respond with compassion regardless of the circumstances of the injury or accident.

Likewise if you had experienced a deadly accident and attempted to prevent others experiencing the same pain you did, by warning them of safety precautions to take with certain equipment, I would hope people would respond to you respectfully and not dismiss your experience because it had never happened to them.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Siskin said:


> I've had a clip fail on a six foot lead once and a a ring part on a collar. Seems there are accidents waiting to happen all over the place


There are indeed. As a design Engineer I can tell you that safety generally comes up during a discussion on a new product and good designs incorporates measures to minimise danger where practical to do so. Sadly these leads lack even the most basic and obvious safety feature an extendable leads should include, a simple precaution against human error.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

cbcdesign said:


> There are indeed. As a design Engineer I can tell you that safety generally comes up during a discussion on a new product and good designs incorporates measures to minimise danger where practical to do so. Sadly these leads lack even the most basic and obvious safety feature an extendable leads should include, a simple precaution against human error.


You mention seat belts. I think we have all experienced the automatic locking of a seatbelt either when the car is turning, breaking, or you simply try to move too fast. I don't pretend to understand how this mechanism works, but I do wonder how hard it would be to include a feature like this with the design of a retractable leash?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Out of curiosity for those who use a retractable lead, what are the advantages of a retractable lead over a simple long line?
> 
> As a horse person, that I know of, there is no horse equipment equivalent to a retractable lead, yet we use long lines with horses all the time. I personally would much rather hold a strong horse on a long line than an awkward clumpy plastic handle. I imagine it would be the same with a dog? IDK....


Speaking as someone with a lurcher who can go 0-60 mph in about 2 seconds (and who can't be left with a long line trailing on the ground - I have to keep hold of it - unless the area is fully fenced) there is no way I could guarantee to stop him fast enough before he hit the end if he spotted a squirrel or cat over the fields!

The one time I tried it with a long line in the early days of recall training I ended up in casualty with a separated shoulder and Jack had a bruise on his chest from the harness (thankfully not a collar!).

With a flexi tape lead I keep my eyes open and can lock the lead before he spots something and takes off. He is able to run round me when it's fully extended and can trot along or jump ditches etc. but I don't want him sprinting to the end in a straight line without warning.

If it's fully extended and I need him close (assuming he didn't come when called - which he usually does BTW) I can reel him in within 2 or 3 seconds/sweeps of my arm - locking the handle on each sweep, if that makes sense.

With a long line I would have to try and coil it all up quickly and then let it out again gradually to avoid the running to the end at speed scenario.

A flexi gives me much more control than a long line would ime.

Near roads a length of the tape is used like a normal leash.

Being horsey myself, I would happily lead a horse on a lead rein or coiled long line (lunge line) but NOT a flexi type device. I would want to stay close to it's head though for control so I would only want the horse at the end of the long line if it could not run away or drag me anywhere - in a fenced paddock, etc. Tbh if leading a horse near a road I would prefer it in a bridle.

Jack weighs 23k and his flexi is for a dog up to 85k. He could possibly manage to catch me unawares and I might lose my balance, but a horse could potentially drag me - and far easier if on the end of a long line I would think.

I happily wind the flexi tape round my hand with Jack because there is no way I would be letting it go (or any other lead) especially near a road.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

My two both respond to a "steady" which means they are coming to the end of the lead, I think Hector only ever hit the end of the flexi at speed once and he never did it again as neither of us enjoyed it, and I think he was aware that he was attached to me and very quickly worked out the radius in which he could move about me, even now when I rarely use them he generally stays within a 8m radius of me. I love my flexi leads and I believe if used correctly and sensibly then they are a very good bit of kit and would always choose one of a long line, I think it's just doing what works for you and your dog.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> How do we think we could increase public awareness of the potential dangers of flexi-leads and how to use them safely?
> 
> In my experience (and admittedly I've never really spoken to anyone in great detail about it outside the discussions on here), most people using flexi-leads just don't have any concept of their limitations. Hence they would quite happily use them near roads etc.
> 
> ...


Actually, I think vet practices can play a part in this by putting up clear (even brutal) posters on their walls so owners see them when they visit.

As well as an excerpt of the Dog Law about being in control of their dog in public and giving on leash dogs some space!


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## PetsBestBuddy (Oct 17, 2013)

@Siskin both of the flexi leads I had bought in 2004 were the Flexi brand. Both were the flexi 2-8 LONG model and designed for medium sized dogs up to 44lb (19.95kg) in weight. My dog was only 15.4kg at the time and the first flexi cord snapped within 2 weeks of buying it. All she had done before the cord snapped was run to the end of the line. The brake and recoil function were working perfectly at the time. The second flexi 2-8 LONG worked perfectly well until the brake mechanism failed while I was crossing a main road. Same dog and still within the 44lb weight limit, on the fully retracted (shortest) line with the brake on 

@ouesi Neither of the above flexis had a safety collar. That feature must have been introduced at a later date 

First flexi 2-8 LONG - cord snapped an inch away from where the cord is attached to the short tape section which holds the trigger clip. Failed within 2 weeks of buying it.








Second flexi 2-8 LONG - Recoil mechanism began to stick intermittently within a few weeks of buying, followed by complete failure of the brake mechanism while crossing a main road. This one only lasted 2 - 3 months before failing.








Saying that, the soil in my immediate area is quite sandy, so having seen the muck inside a dismantled flexi lead on youtube earlier today, I wonder if the failures I experienced were due to sandy soil getting inside and damaging these 2 flexis ?


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Lurcherlad said:


> Speaking as someone with a lurcher who can go 0-60 mph in about 2 seconds (and who can't be left with a long line trailing on the ground - I have to keep hold it - unless the area is fully fenced) there is no way I could guarantee to stop him fast enough before he hit the end if he spotted a squirrel or cat over the fields!
> 
> The one time I tried it with a long line in the early days of recall training I ended up in casualty with a separated shoulder and Jack had a bruise on his chest from the harness (thankfully not a collar!).
> 
> ...


I favour a completely different system. Firstly I would design these devices so that extension requires the user to press and hold a brake override button. That gives the user all the control whilst denying the dog any opportunity to extend the lead without action by the user. This would also eliminate the possibility of the user forgetting to lock the device accidently.

Once the lead has extended and the user has released the brake override button its locked at it current length and can extend no further unless the user presses and holds the override button again.. To reduce the lead length you use the same system of sweeping your arm but no button presses would be required whatsoever, the device would automatically lock at the end of each sweep as the lead retracts each time.

Its a simple change to the method of operation but an inherently safer design. Collieslave: this above what I have in mind.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Mmm. And when a flexi gets pulled from your hand what happens? Vs. a long line?
> A long line lays there on the ground where you can step on it, or worst case scenario get tangled up in it and go pasture skiing while adding significant drag to the escaping animal and thus slowing them down.
> A flexi gets dropped on the ground and retracts. Potentially injuring the dog (or other dogs) in the process. Or worse the clip breaks and whizzes back via the retracting mechanism with a metal shard attached to it.
> Or the flexi handle hangs there and starts "chasing" the dog as they run, thus freaking the dog out and encouraging them to continue running.
> ...


It's happened a couple of times and I can honestly say Jack stops dead and stands waiting for me to go over and pick it up - thankfully! 

Same if the tape or long line touches his legs or goes under him.


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## CollieSlave (May 5, 2016)

cbcdesign said:


> There are indeed. As a design Engineer I can tell you that safety generally comes up during a discussion on a new product and good designs incorporates measures to minimise danger where practical to do so. Sadly these leads lack even the most basic and obvious safety feature an extendable leads should include, a simple precaution against human error.


As a Design Engineer what do you regard as "the most basic and obvious safety feature" that is a "simple precaution against human error"? From your post I take it that you have something in mind! Can you enlighten us? (And possibly the maker of the leads as well?)

*Please ignore - I see you have responded already on this topic! Sorry!*


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Siskin said:


> It's the person on the other end that is often the problem rather then the lead I think


Probably true but people make mistakes which is why we have seatbelts in cars, safety caps on pill bottles, covers over electrical items etc. People are not perfect but collectively people can achieve great things including good design that mitigates accidents as much as possible.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

CollieSlave said:


> As a Design Engineer what do you regard as "the most basic and obvious safety feature" that is a "simple precaution against human error"? From your post I take it that you have something in mind! Can you enlighten us? (And possibly the maker of the leads as well?)


Yes, see my post 148 above:


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

cbcdesign said:


> I favour a completely different system. Firstly I would design these devices so that extension requires the user to press and hold a brake override button. That gives the user all the control whilst denying the dog any opportunity to extend the lead without action by the user. This would also eliminate the possibility of the user forgetting to lock the device accidently.
> 
> Once the lead has extended and the user has released the brake override button its locked at it current length and can extend no further unless the user presses and holds the override button again.. To reduce the lead length you use the same system of sweeping your arm but no button presses would be required whatsoever, the device would automatically lock at the end of each sweep as the lead retracts each time.
> 
> Its a simple change to the method of operation but an inherently safer design. Collieslave: this above what I have in mind.


I agree with what you suggest - unfortunately they aren't designed that way currently.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

cbcdesign said:


> I favour a completely different system. Firstly I would design these devices so that extension requires the user to press and hold a brake override button. That gives the user all the control whilst denying the dog any opportunity to extend the lead without action by the user. This would also eliminate the possibility of the user forgetting to lock the device accidently.
> 
> Once the lead has extended and the user has released the brake override button its locked at it current length and can extend no further unless the user presses and holds the override button again.. To reduce the lead length you use the same system of sweeping your arm but no button presses would be required whatsoever, the device would automatically lock at the end of each sweep as the lead retracts each time.
> 
> Its a simple change to the method of operation but an inherently safer design. Collieslave: this above what I have in mind.


This makes a lot of sense to me. 
Disclaimer: I am not a flexi user, so I don't know if this would be problematic based on people's preferences or reasons for choosing a flexi, but my first reaction is that this switch in design would lessen and eliminate many of the potential issues.

I don't know if you're familiar with Consumer Reports in the UK, but it's a very reputable publication on consumer products safety. 
They made their own statement on retractable leads (not just flexi brand) back in 2009. 
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...-problems-for-people-and-their-pets/index.htm


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## PetsBestBuddy (Oct 17, 2013)

@cbcdesign This is the video I watched earlier where once they have figured out how to open the casing, you can clearly see the amount of dirt inside the casing. A bit further on in this video, they find a clump of dog hair matted around the cord near the recoil mechanism. Would there be any kind of design feature which would reduce or eliminate dirt and hair from being drawn inside the casing every time the cord or tape retracts ? Surely dirt inside the casing would begin to fray the cord or tape to the point where it would snap, and would also wear the internal mechanisms to cause failure of the recoil and/or brake mechanisms ?


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

No they are not designed as I suggest but fired up as I am by this incident I have just emailed Flexi with the design change proposal.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

PetsBestBuddy said:


> @cbcdesign This is the video I watched earlier where once they have figured out how to open the casing, you can clearly see the amount of dirt inside the casing. A bit further on in this video, they find a clump of dog hair matted around the cord near the recoil mechanism. Would there be any kind of design feature which would reduce or eliminate dirt and hair from being drawn inside the casing every time the cord or tape retracts ? Surely dirt inside the casing would begin to fray the cord or tape to the point where it would snap, and would also wear the internal mechanisms to cause failure of the recoil and/or brake mechanisms ?


I think the possibility of dirt getting into the mechanism is always going to be an issue with this sort of design. As we know dogs coats are often slightly oily and that gets onto the chord which in turn attracts dirt and hair. There is a possibility that some sort of plastic or stiff rubberised funnel shape grommet around the chord outlet may act as a shield protecting much of the internal mechanism from dirt but this would need to be tested by the manufacturers. The advantage with a stiff rubber is no wear on the chord but hopefully a fairly good scraping action.


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## CollieSlave (May 5, 2016)

cbcdesign said:


> No they are not designed as I suggest but fired up as I am by this incident I have just emailed Flexi with the design change proposal.


Good luck! It is to be hoped that they show interest but don't hold your breath: some years ago I emailed them suggesting that their leads had, clearly visible on them, the maximum loading (ie dog weight) for each model as similar body shapes and sizes had different weight limits. This was rejected as it was said it would involve too much in the way of production changes etc etc.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

CollieSlave said:


> Good luck! It is to be hoped that they show interest but don't hold your breath: some years ago I emailed them suggesting that their leads had, clearly visible on them, the maximum loading (ie dog weight) for each model as similar body shapes and sizes had different weight limits. This was rejected as it was said it would involve too much in the way of production changes etc etc.


What a load of BS. It would have required a simple addition of fixing a label to the product, perhaps at the packing stage or during assembly or simply altering the injection mouldings to imprint the info into the body of the leash. Manufacturers think we are all ignorant of the processes involved in manufacturing goods but some of us actually do design and manufacture product and know precisely how product is made.

I suspect I wont hear anything but at the very least I tried! I wrote to them via my design company so they may take notice?


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## winterrose (Dec 30, 2016)

Oh my gosh! @cbcdesign I'm sorry to have you witness that.
I occasionally walk a dog with a Flexi when we go to the park (crossing a busy main road) and well, I'm not using that Flexi again. 
Hope you are ok.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> I favour a completely different system. Firstly I would design these devices so that extension requires the user to press and hold a brake override button. That gives the user all the control whilst denying the dog any opportunity to extend the lead without action by the user. This would also eliminate the possibility of the user forgetting to lock the device accidently.
> 
> Once the lead has extended and the user has released the brake override button its locked at it current length and can extend no further unless the user presses and holds the override button again.. To reduce the lead length you use the same system of sweeping your arm but no button presses would be required whatsoever, the device would automatically lock at the end of each sweep as the lead retracts each time.
> 
> Its a simple change to the method of operation but an inherently safer design. Collieslave: this above what I have in mind.


If I am reading this correctly it would stop the flexi lead from actually working as intended. At the moment they increase and decrease in length automatically as the dog gets further or nearer to the handler. The handler does not have to do anything for this to happen which is certainly what I want so that my dog can range around in an area that is not safe for off lead. If I need to get her back in a hurry I can easily do this and then lock the flexi when she is back where I want her. If I am correct with what you are suggesting I would no longer use one as it would be of no use to me.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Blitz said:


> If I am reading this correctly it would stop the flexi lead from actually working as intended. At the moment they increase and decrease in length automatically as the dog gets further or nearer to the handler. The handler does not have to do anything for this to happen which is certainly what I want so that my dog can range around in an area that is not safe for off lead. If I need to get her back in a hurry I can easily do this and then lock the flexi when she is back where I want her. If I am correct with what you are suggesting I would no longer use one as it would be of no use to me.


Yes the whole point of the Flexi for me is that the lead feeds and retracts as the dogs moves around or stops as I continue to walk until I want the dog on a short lead under control where I then retract the lead and lock it.

I find nothing wrong with how the current ones work and I will continue to use them, same as I continue to get into a car virtually everyday, I expose myself to risks and dangers that kill or injure others everyday, everything we do has a risk involved to it, and whilst it was a tragic thing tat you witnessed, I don't think it's a realistic ideal to expect everyone to stop using flexi leads or for them to change the design that has worked for them and their many users for many many years.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Blitz said:


> If I am reading this correctly it would stop the flexi lead from actually working as intended. *At the moment they increase and decrease in length automatically* as the dog gets further or nearer to the handler. The handler does not have to do anything for this to happen which is certainly what I want so that my dog can range around in an area that is not safe for off lead. If I need to get her back in a hurry I can easily do this and then lock the flexi when she is back where I want her. If I am correct with what you are suggesting I would no longer use one as it would be of no use to me.


Which in inherently dangerous! I am more interested in dogs safety than I am in the convenience of lead operation for end users frankly. Sorry if that offends some of you but there it is.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Which in inherently dangerous! I am more interested in dogs safety than I am in the convenience of lead operation for end users frankly. Sorry if that offends some of you but there it is.


If used without common sense it may be dangerous 
But the same can be said for any lead
People without common sense not only misuse devices like the flexi lead but tie dogs up outside shops/ don't put them on a lead at all despite dangers/ the risks go on and on and you can not safe guard against it all.

I have used flexi for 2 large dogs for 11 years without incident. I have used common sense. Unfortunately not everyone has common sense and wether they have a standard lead or flexi in their hand they will make poor decisions.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Thinking about it I am actually quite confident despite not having the facts and figures that more dogs die in road accident where the owner has made the poor choice of not putting any lead at all on the dog.
Where people think they have better recall than they actually do.
Or insist despite having poor recall the dog 'needs' to be off lead. 
I'm sure more dogs suffer as a result of poor choices not to leash them as appose to using a flexi to allow some further freedom of movement to avoid letting an unreliable dog off lead.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

cbcdesign said:


> Probably true but people make mistakes which is why we have seatbelts in cars, safety caps on pill bottles, covers over electrical items etc. People are not perfect but collectively people can achieve great things including good design that mitigates accidents as much as possible.


Exactly. People make mistakes. Accidents happen. It has very little ( if anything ) to do with the flexi itself, because as pointed out a similar accident could have occurred on a regular lead, for example the person could have dropped the lead at the wrong time, it could have snapped, the dog could have slipped it's collar. All terrible, but an accident all the same.

I get why you're so passionate about this right now considering what you witnessed, but I think you're being very one minded with your views and as Blitz said, the vast majority of flexi lead owners have no problems with their current design as I'm sure the manufacturers themselves probably don't.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Can I ask.. It's been mentioned a few times about reeling a dog in on a flexi. They don't actually reel in though, do they? You still have to manually pull the dog back or get them to wait until you reach them.. which is what I do with a long line.

I don't let my long line trail the ground and step on it like a lot of people do.. the bulk of it is in my right hand, it goes round my back or sometimes just hangs loosely at the front, and I hold the taut part of the lead in my left hand. I release more as Phoebe goes further away and reel in as she gets closer. Essentially I am the release/retract mechanism  The only difference for me is, if I drop the long line with one hand, my body and other hand is still preventing Phoebe from getting loose. If by some chance I drop it with both hands, I can stand on it and pick it up again whereas the flexi will go scooting towards her much quicker than I can move to catch it again. It doesn't get covered in muck or dirt as it's usually taut enough to stay up off the ground in the same way a flexi is.

It's quite interesting that I feel I have much more control with a long line than a flexi, yet others feel the complete opposite. I guess it's just down to what you're capable of controlling, and I'm definitely someone who isn't capable or coordinated enough to control a flexi


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> If used without common sense it may be dangerous
> But the same can be said for any lead
> People without common sense not only misuse devices like the flexi lead but tie dogs up outside shops/ don't put them on a lead at all despite dangers/ the risks go on and on and you can not safe guard against it all.
> 
> I have used flexi for 2 large dogs for 11 years without incident. I have used common sense. Unfortunately not everyone has common sense and wether they have a standard lead or flexi in their hand they will make poor decisions.


Common sense has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Humans are imperfect beings, they can be distracted, make mistakes, have a bad nights sleep. They may be on medication that affect memory. They may just be a bit forgetful as they age. There are all sorts of reasons why people may forget to do something and with this device that could result in death. As I said in a previous post, this is why we have seat belts to give one example and other safety features just in case of errors. This device prioritises convenience over safety because evidently some would find pressing and holding a button to automate extension and retraction too much trouble so instead safety has been compromised! What a sad world!


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

winterrose said:


> Oh my gosh! @cbcdesign I'm sorry to have you witness that.
> I occasionally walk a dog with a Flexi when we go to the park (crossing a busy main road) and well, I'm not using that Flexi again.
> Hope you are ok.


I think you are very wise. Only foolish people in my opinion refuse to learn the lessons other peoples misfortune can teach us and if we don't learn from past mistakes we are destined to keep repeating them.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

If I understand CBC correctly, the lead wouldn't extend/retract unless the owner released it by depressing a button?

Instead of the current mechanism where it only locks if the owner depresses the button?

So I think it could still allow the dog to behave the same way, but avoid the chances of owner forgetting to lock it? Not sure how that would work though on a long walk, having to keep a button pressed down?

That, of course, wouldn't have saved the dog in the OP even if it was locked - as the owner stated it was. If a lock fails - it fails.

I think it makes more sense just not to rely on a flexi mechanism near roads.

In my head they are only for use in areas where dogs would be safe to run free and are simply an aid for dogs who can't be let off in those areas - young, deaf, untrained/training, lack of recall etc.

It's very easy to attach a normal lead while walking to the safe area. There really isn't any reason in my mind to be walking a dog near roads, in town, etc. on a flexi when a normal lead is the right tool for the job.

I do, but as I stated, I use the tape to create a normal lead, wrapped round my hand, and the plastic handle/mechanism is simply carried in my other hand (with a bit of slack across my hips) - technically redundant. I could just as easily clip on Jack's "normal" lead (which is actually a horse lead rein - so very strong) along the road, carry the flexi and swap when I get to the field.

Will most people do that? Probably not.

*Actually, I've just remembered I have a spare nylon lead in the pocket of my walking coat (having come across a couple of "lost" dogs recently) so I will clip that onto Jack's harness in future near roads  *


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Nettles said:


> Can I ask.. It's been mentioned a few times about reeling a dog in on a flexi. They don't actually reel in though, do they? You still have to manually pull the dog back or get them to wait until you reach them.. which is what I do with a long line.
> 
> I don't let my long line trail the ground and step on it like a lot of people do.. the bulk of it is in my right hand, it goes round my back or sometimes just hangs loosely at the front, and I hold the taut part of the lead in my left hand. I release more as Phoebe goes further away and reel in as she gets closer. Essentially I am the release/retract mechanism  The only difference for me is, if I drop the long line with one hand, my body and other hand is still preventing Phoebe from getting loose. If by some chance I drop it with both hands, I can stand on it and pick it up again whereas the flexi will go scooting towards her much quicker than I can move to catch it again. It doesn't get covered in muck or dirt as it's usually taut enough to stay up off the ground in the same way a flexi is.
> 
> It's quite interesting that I feel I have much more control with a long line than a flexi, yet others feel the complete opposite. I guess it's just down to what you're capable of controlling, and I'm definitely someone who isn't capable or coordinated enough to control a flexi


Jack's does.

As he moves away, it extends and as he moves back closer it retracts. It reels in the slack.

If I need him back close quickly, I recall him - same as anyone does with their dog or ask him to wait and approach him.

If for some reason he doesn't recall (cat/squirrel) I can lock - approach/pull (if necessary) - retract - lock - repeat.

His lead is 5m and in 2-3 sweeps the lead is fully retracted.

It's a genuine Flexi with a strong spring/mechanism.

I think the dog makes a difference which choice one makes too - a dog that runs around in circles a long line is probably OK.

Jack runs in straight lines - FAST! Flexi offers better control, especially to manage his speed, and is safer for me and him!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Common sense has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Humans are imperfect beings, they can be distracted, make mistakes, have a bad nights sleep. They may be on medication that affect memory. They may just be a bit forgetful as they age. There are all sorts of reasons why people may forget to do something and with this device that could result in death. As I said in a previous post, this is why we have seat belts to give one example and other safety features just in case of errors. This device prioritises convenience over safety because evidently some would find pressing and holding a button to automate extension and retraction too much trouble so instead safety has been compromised! What a sad world!


You don't have to hold a button in. The locking mechanism holds it in.
Also if we are going to talk about human factors, errors and unnecessary risk. Many tasks people perform on a daily basis are risk associated. What about putting a dog in the boot of the car, it is an impact area? What about letting any dog off the lead?

Of course common sense has something to do with it. I wouldn't use a flexi by the road as many others have stated on this thread therefore this horrible accident would not happen to my dog


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## Sarah Cain9 Dog Grooming (Jul 13, 2015)

Sorry op for such a sad situation you witnessed. 

I was only in the park yesterday when a lady had a little Shih Tzu running around at the end of an extendable lead. A gentleman was riding up behind her on his bike and he had noticed the dog and slowed down but I am assuming he didn't notice it was on an extendable lead as it was one of the very thin rope versions? He drove past her and the lead got stuck in his tyre as she tried to reel her dog back towards her. Myself, the gentleman and another lady unraveled the lead from his tyre as the owner just stood there and watched. 

I currently use a halti lead for road walking and then I use a long line when on any woodland walks or countryside walks however the long line is starting to test my patience at it gets caught on anything and everything lol. I am considering investing in a large flexi solely for woodland/county walks as I wouldn't have the trouble with faffing around with a long line.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Dogloverlou said:


> Sad of course, but certainly doesn't deter me from using mine which I've used safely & effectively for over 15 years now. Accidents happen. I've had Missy back out of her harness, lead clips detach & of course collar buckles can weaken/work their way loose too. Nothing is fail proof.


I totally agree. I will also continue to use mine. I do only use the Flexi brand though and not cheap alternatives as I have had these snap.

This is a dreadful incident and I can't image how the owner and driver is feeling, poor little dog 

However, when we are waiting to cross a road I do tend to hold the belt part, you know nearest the harness before the cord starts. So that way it's no different to any other normal lead.
Plus Muttly is on a 20kg Flexi and he's only 6.6kgs, so the mechanism has been tested on the pull force of a much larger dog.

However, no I don't 100% trust any tool and as much as we train our dogs, accidents will happen.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> I think you are very wise. Only foolish people in my opinion refuse to learn the lessons other peoples misfortune can teach us and if we don't learn from past mistakes we are destined to keep repeating them.


I wonder why you come on a forum full of fools. Cannot be very much fun for you.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Just to add when I use my flexi I have a very short material lead that I also leave attached to the harness. It is about 7inches long and i use it when approaching roads or other dogs


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> Just to add when I use my flexi I have a very short material lead that I also leave attached to the harness. It is about 7inches long and i use it when approaching roads or other dogs


I'm considering this. I walk across the road from my house into the fields, where he has to stay on lead at certain times of day/night, so I want him to have the freedom of a Flexi.
He has another thick strong lead with a big loop to go over your hand, so I think I may take this out for when we are near the road, when not in use I can put it around my neck.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> Just to add when I use my flexi I have a very short material lead that I also leave attached to the harness. It is about 7inches long and i use it when approaching roads or other dogs


In a way that is similar to the older Flexi lead version where there was a material bit with a loop which was brilliant for having the dog under close control and by roads, you weren't relying on the brake of the Flexi at all.
But that is a good idea of yours which I think we will use as I have a short lead which I used on my last dog when she was learning agility and it would be easy for it to be kept on the harness all the time.
Alternatively, and if your dog is tall or the owner is small:Smug, many harnesses have grab handles which could be utilised when walking by roads.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Siskin said:


> Alternatively, and if your dog is tall or the owner is small:Smug, many harnesses have grab handles which could be utilised when walking by roads.


Oh this would be so much easier if I was 10 Inches tall :Shamefullyembarrased
I would love one of those traffic handles for Muttly, but he's just too tiny.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Muttly said:


> Oh this would be so much easier if I was 10 Inches tall :Shamefullyembarrased
> I would love one of those traffic handles for Muttly, but he's just too tiny.


I was thinking of you and Muttly when I wrote that


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Siskin said:


> I was thinking of you and Muttly when I wrote that


:Hilarious
Well at least his handle still has it's uses....for pulling him up riverbanks or out of bogs :Shifty


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## winter (Dec 16, 2012)

What a awful thing to happen to the poor dog and awful for you to witness.
Sadly I've seen dozens of dogs on flexi leads suddenly rushing across the road in front of cars, it's happened to us, fortunately we managed to do a emergency stop and the dog was fine but it shook us up.

I wouldn't use a flexi lead again as I went through three of them and the brakes kept failing, and I've sliced my hands on them twice.
I now use a 10 foot dog lead with two clips at each end so you can change the length of the lead, it's fantastic, so easy to use and I have much more control over my dog, beside roads I clip one end of the lead to his collar and the other end of the lead to his harness.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Both my dogs wear the Julius K9 Harnesses with the handle on the back. I love them and Georgina's comes in useful as I've trained her to pull me up steep hills and help me cross deep ditches! Gwylim, even though he only an "ickle" dog, has been taught the moment I touch his back or the handle on his harness, he has to stop immediately.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

That's very unlucky Winter to have 3 Flexi's fail.....Were they actually branded Flexis? 
Flexi's don't tend to fail unless: not cared for properly (sand/mud in mechanism, damage to the cord or tape) or the wrong weight for the dog is bought (always buy heavier than your dog is).

When I first had Muttly and he pulled, I had 2 Retractable leads break in about 3 months. They were not Flexi, they were £3 cheapy versions.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

cbcdesign said:


> Well firstly there is the possibility that the dog saw us coming and got scared so I have that to contend with. Then there is just the horror of seeing the poor thing killed like that. On top of that this can be so easily foreseen when a lead can unspool with the click of a button or due to mechanical failure.
> 
> The trouble with these is that its people with small dogs, often older people that use them. They think the dog is not big enough to break the lead and that is probably true but a simple failure of the spool lock or a senior moment forgetting to lock the thing is all it takes. You cannot forget to lock a lead that doesn't extend and you don't have a mechanical spool failure to worry about either.
> 
> dogloverlou is right, accidents happen but safety is all about trying to think about what could happen then taking steps to minimise that safety risk. These leads introduce extra safety fears fixed leads simply don't have, that is what people who like these stupid things don't seem to recognise.


Why would you assume that these leads are used by older people who have "senior moments", or people who own small dogs?

Being older or owning a small Breed doesn't necessarily mean you're lacking in intelligence or common sense.

Again, I've been using flexi leads for thirty odd years now, without incident.

I'm very aware of what could be a problem when using these leads and I'm very careful.


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## AlexPed2393 (Oct 5, 2016)

cbcdesign said:


> Which in inherently dangerous! I am more interested in dogs safety than I am in the convenience of lead operation for end users frankly. Sorry if that offends some of you but there it is.


It's also inherently dangerous to let your dog drag a long lead on the floor increasing and decreasing the distance between the two of you. The common sense approach should work and does work for a lot of Flexi lead users. Sorry if is I sound blunt


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## AlexPed2393 (Oct 5, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Why would you assume that these leads are used by older people who have "senior moments", or people who own small dogs?
> 
> Being older or owning a small Breed doesn't necessarily mean you're lacking in intelligence or common sense.
> 
> ...


Hate to think I'm 'old' at 23 ... On a sidenote I am not really a fan of Flexi leads and use a 7 foot nylon lead for when I am walking Bonnie, however my GF does use the Flexi


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Sweety said:


> Why would you assume that these leads are used by older people who have "senior moments", or people who own small dogs?
> 
> Being older or owning a small Breed doesn't necessarily mean you're lacking in intelligence or common sense.
> 
> ...


Well I'm *extremely* old and have a small dog as well as a medium sized one.

I've never used a flexi lead and have no intention of every doing so after a few close encounters with idiots chatting away on their mobiles, totally oblivious of the mayhem their dog is causing some 15 feet ahead of them! And being left to sort it out!

I'll stick to my 2 metre leads and continue to train my dogs to do as they're told, when I tell them to!


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Why would you assume that these leads are used by older people who have "senior moments", or people who own small dogs?
> 
> Being older or owning a small Breed doesn't necessarily mean you're lacking in intelligence or common sense.
> 
> ...


At no stage did I question older peoples intelligence or common sense. What I said was that factors including age can make people forgetful from time to time. Its is highly likely that is precisely what happened this weekend in fact. I also clearly mentioned other factors such a lack of sleep, medications etc. We all make mistakes sweety including you from time to time and its quite easy to forget to lock up a an extendable lead as large numbers of unintentional deaths with these devices clearly demonstrate.

I suggest you do some simple google research and you will find out just how common problems with these devices are.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

AlexPed2393 said:


> It's also inherently dangerous to let your dog drag a long lead on the floor increasing and decreasing the distance between the two of you. The common sense approach should work and does work for a lot of Flexi lead users. Sorry if is I sound blunt


Since I have had Muttly, I have thought lots of times about using a long line on him. But, I can't get over the line trailing around getting tangled up or tangled around other dogs!
Flexi's (used properly, many can't which is more the point) eliminate this problem.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

AlexPed2393 said:


> *It's also inherently dangerous to let your dog drag a long lead on the floor increasing and decreasing the distance between the two of you*. The common sense approach should work and does work for a lot of Flexi lead users. Sorry if is I sound blunt


You will get no argument from me on the highlighted point Alex, its a perfectly reasonable one. The fact remains however that forgetting to lock a retractable lead can and has led to dog deaths and regardless of what the fans of these devices think I don't accept that the design as it stands is as safe as it should and could be.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

cbcdesign said:


> I suggest you do some simple google research and you will find out just how common problems with these devices are.


Cbc, I know you are upset, but it's really not the device that's the problem. A lot of people who buy these leads, just can't get the hang of them.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Muttly said:


> Cbc, I know you are upset, but it's really not the device that's the problem. A lot of people who buy these leads, just can't get the hang of them.


Which again demonstrates that they are not suitable for use as an ordinary leash in public places. And the device is a problem precisely because people have difficulty "getting the hang of it". A lead is supposed to keep a dog safe, not lead to its death because people struggle with the mechanism and function.


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## AlexPed2393 (Oct 5, 2016)

cbcdesign said:


> You will get no argument from me on the highlighted point Alex, its a perfectly reasonable one. The fact remains however that forgetting to lock a retractable lead can and has led to dog deaths and regardless of what the fans of these devices think I don't accept that the design as it stands is as safe as it should and could be.


I also see a lot of people with a slack dog leash when preparing to cross a road, giving the dog enough space to lunge forward, resulting in the same incident as an unlocked flexi, once again this falls into common sense or getting the hang of controlling your dog.

We are all highlighting very specific situations but in the broad spectrum it usually ends up being user error that has caused an accident.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

cbcdesign said:


> Which again demonstrates that they are not suitable for use as an ordinary leash in public places. And the device is a problem precisely because people have difficulty "getting the hang of it". A lead is supposed to keep a dog safe, not lead to its death because people struggle with the mechanism and function.


Can't argue with that. I find it staggering how many people can;t use them. My OH is one of them. (he doesn't realise this, but he only ever is let to hold Muttly in a safe area, where it wouldn't matter if the lead was dropped/not locked).

However, because I find them easy and great help. I will always rate them.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Muttly said:


> Cbc, I know you are upset, but it's really not the device that's the problem. A lot of people who buy these leads, just can't get the hang of them.


That's very true, my SIL seems to get into a muddle with Isla's flexi and keeps pulling on the tape rather then the arm back way of shortening the lead or fiddling with the lock because she can't get it to work in the way she thinks it ought to work, but she doesn't use it very often only when she is with us - I let her walk Isla as she misses not having a dog. However after a while she 'gets it and uses it properly. And like me, she uses it like you might a lead in those circumstances where the dog needs to be under control and close to you i.e. flexi handle in right hand and locked and tape in the left hand, dog by the side.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Siskin said:


> That's very true, my SIL seems to get into a muddle with Isla's flexi and keeps pulling on the tape rather then the arm back way of shortening the lead or fiddling with the lock because she can't get it to work in the way she thinks it ought to work, but she doesn't use it very often only when she is with us - I let her walk Isla as she misses not having a dog. However after a while she 'gets it and uses it properly. And like me, she uses it like you might a lead in those circumstances where the dog needs to be under control and close to you i.e. *flexi handle in right hand and locked and tape in the left hand, dog by the side*.


Yeah that's it. So you are holding the black part (see my sig) in your left hand and that takes away any mechanism controlling the dogs distance, because between that and the dog is just a normal lead clip.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Muttly said:


> Can't argue with that. I find it staggering how many people can;t use them. My OH is one of them. (he doesn't realise this, but he only ever is let to hold Muttly in a safe area, where it wouldn't matter if the lead was dropped/not locked).
> 
> However, because I find them easy and great help. I will always rate them.


I can see that in the right environment they can be a very useful training tool and I have no problem with them being manufactured as they are for that role Mutley. My issue is with the "one size fits all" design philosophy that has been applied to these leashes. I think different models should be available and marketed accordingly. A retractable lead designed the way I have outlined earlier in the thread would be a far better device for use in public places where roads and traffic are a concern.

If my "harping on" about this persuades a few people who are uncomfortable with these devices to stop using their Flex, switch to a fixed leash and it saves a few lives I would consider that worthwhile.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Terribly tragic thing to happen, that poor dog. Hope you are ok too @cbcdesign must have been very upsetting to witness that.

However, I find your remarks very rude to those (myself included) who use a Flexi lead, responsibly ... daily .... year on year .... with no issues.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

cbcdesign said:


> I can see that in the right environment they can be a very useful training tool and I have no problem with them being manufactured as they are for that role Mutley. My issue is with the "one size fits all" design philosophy that has been applied to these leashes. I think different models should be available and marketed accordingly. A retractable lead designed the way I have outlined earlier in the thread would be a far better device for use in public places where roads and traffic are a concern.
> 
> If my "harping on" about this persuades a few people who are uncomfortable with these devices to stop using their Flex, switch to a fixed leash and it saves a few lives I would consider that worthwhile.


I agree, that design would be much better for near roads. But then perhaps Extending leads near roads should just not be allowed. This thread has made me re think my road walking. As much as I trust my lead, I am a big worrier.

My normal fixed lead also has a locking mechanism that slides over the clip part, so if the clips becomes loose or fails, it can't unclip. Does that make sense?


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

westie~ma said:


> Terribly tragic thing to happen, that poor dog. Hope you are ok too @cbcdesign must have been very upsetting to witness that.
> 
> However, I find your remarks very rude to those (myself included) who use a Flexi lead, responsibly ... daily .... year on year .... with no issues.


Then sorry but you are far too easily offended and are totally misrepresenting what I have said. I have not questioned the intelligence of the users of these devices, their common sense or have been rude to users of them. I have simply pointed out that the design at it stands is subject to people having to manually activate a safety feature to protect their dog from extending the lead inappropriately and sorry but if you choose to take that as a criticism of you personally there is little I can do when that is not what is behind the points I have made.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Muttly said:


> I agree, that design would be much better for near roads. But then perhaps Extending leads near roads should just not be allowed. *This thread has made me re think my road walking*. As much as I trust my lead,* I am a big worrier.*
> 
> My normal fixed lead also has a locking mechanism that slides over the clip part, so if the clips becomes loose or fails, it can't unclip. Does that make sense?


Me too. I don't know where you live, town or village but in my town there is so much traffic now, its a really tricky business just trying to cross a road most times of the day and having to worry about a lead being locked or not too is just added stress when just getting across the road is stressful enough. I only live in a small town with a population of 20,000 ish but honestly the number of cars on the road today is just horrendous!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

westie~ma said:


> Terribly tragic thing to happen, that poor dog. Hope you are ok too @cbcdesign must have been very upsetting to witness that.
> 
> However, I find your remarks very rude to those (myself included) who use a Flexi lead, responsibly ... daily .... year on year .... with no issues.


So do I , and rather 'ageist'. I may be an older lady but not senile yet with my 'little dogs'


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

cbcdesign said:


> Then sorry but you are far too easily offended and are totally misrepresenting what I have said. I have not questioned the intelligence of the users of these devices, their common sense or have been rude to users of them. I have simply pointed out that the design at it stands is subject to people having to manually activate a safety feature to protect their dog from extending the lead inappropriately and sorry but if you choose to take that as a criticism of you personally there is little I can do when that is not what is behind the points I have made.


Yes, you have.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Then sorry but you are far too easily offended and are totally misrepresenting what I have said. I have not questioned the intelligence of the users of these devices, their common sense or have been rude to users of them. I have simply pointed out that the design at it stands is subject to people having to manually activate a safety feature to protect their dog from extending the lead inappropriately and sorry but if you choose to take that as a criticism of you personally there is little I can do when that is not what is behind the points I have made.


Can assure you I am not easily offended nor have I taken certain of your remarks personally I did find them rude and condescending.

Come back and show us when you've redesigned the Flexi, rebranded and made your fortune.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

cbcdesign said:


> At no stage did I question older peoples intelligence or common sense. What I said was that factors including age can make people forgetful from time to time. Its is highly likely that is precisely what happened this weekend in fact. I also clearly mentioned other factors such a lack of sleep, medications etc. We all make mistakes sweety including you from time to time and its quite easy to forget to lock up a an extendable lead as large numbers of unintentional deaths with these devices clearly demonstrate.
> 
> I suggest you do some simple google research and you will find out just how common problems with these devices are.


But at the same time you inferred those of who continue to use them are foolish....


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

cbcdesign said:


> Me too. I don't know where you live, town or village but in my town there is so much traffic now, its a really tricky business just trying to cross a road most times of the day and having to worry about a lead being locked or not too is just added stress when just getting across the road is stressful enough. I only live in a small town with a population of 20,000 ish but honestly the number of cars on the road today is just horrendous!


I think about 50k in my town, but currently building loads of new houses  I walk on the road for about 5 mins in the evening, so not a big road walker I avoid where I can (I walk a pitch black path to cut out some of the road), this road can get quite busy, it's a bus route. Not too bad in the evening though.
This road at 5pm when I had to cycle though, is lethal! It's pretty frightening and I;ve nearly been hit off twice and road raged once.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

westie~ma said:


> Terribly tragic thing to happen, that poor dog. Hope you are ok too @cbcdesign must have been very upsetting to witness that.
> 
> However, I find your remarks very rude to those (myself included) who use a Flexi lead, responsibly ... daily .... year on year .... with no issues.


I too. find the remark rude and condescending, Ye, I am old, no, I am not stupid and have used flexi's for more than 30 years without a single problem.
Used properly it is a brilliant thing, and no falling over trailing long lines involved


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I dont think there is anything about the design that needs changing myself.

What DOES an overhaul, is the instructions, and education about where they are suitable to be used, and on what sort of dog. Flexi needs to pull its finger out, bite the bullet and clearly state they should only be used on a harness, and not near roads - lock or no lock, unless they reintroduce the fixed length section of lead.

If people then go ahead and ignore any warnings, then so be it. People are dicks.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

SusieRainbow said:


> Yes, you have.


This is an objective discussion of these devices and the inherent safety issue with them as I see it, not a criticism of every users ability. Clearly there will be some for which the issues raised have not presented themselves but these devices are aimed at average dog owners and clearly some are struggling and losing their pets.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Bisbow said:


> I too. find the remark rude and condescending, Ye, I am old, no, I am not stupid and have used flexi's for more than 30 years without a single problem.
> Used properly it is a brilliant thing, and no falling over trailing long lines involved


What remark? I have questioned the design, not the users.


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## AlexPed2393 (Oct 5, 2016)

Theres no need to gang up on someone regarding this issue, obviously CBC came in with emotion and fought their side of the review. Emotion brings out the worst in people and you don't always think about what you type.
I believe their anger, dislike and overall hatred of Flexi's and other similar leads is solely directed at the device not the user and she doesn't think we are all old grannies with our angry little yorkie that barely sees the light of day


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

AlexPed2393 said:


> Theres no need to gang up on someone regarding this issue, obviously CBC came in with emotion and fought their side of the review. Emotion brings out the worst in people and you don't always think about what you type.
> I believe their anger, dislike and overall hatred of Flexi's and other similar leads is solely directed at the device not the user *and she doesn't think we are all old grannies with our angry little yorkie that barely sees the light of day*


Has implied it, gone further actually "senior moments" !? I find that rude.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

cbcdesign said:


> What remark? I have questioned the design, not the users.


You intimated that older people with little dogs are forgetful, if not a bit stupid, I may be old but not stupid and as far as my dog is concerned (she is not that little) I do not forget when crossing or walking by roads to make sure she is safe


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Bisbow said:


> You intimated that older people with little dogs are forgetful, if not a bit stupid, I may be old but not stupid and as far as my dog is concerned (she is not that little) I do not forget when crossing or walking by roads to make sure she is safe


No I did not, I said and say again older people _may_ be forgetful, that is totally different to the word are! Nor did I EVER say they were stupid!


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

You have implied it more than once and the young can be forgetful as well, it is not just we oldies

However I shall carry on using a flexi and you can think or imply whatever you want


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

westie~ma said:


> Has implied it, gone further actually "senior moments" !? I find that rude.


I apologies if that term offended you, I meant nothing by it. Its just a phrase that a great many older people themselves use to describe the odd forgetful moment.

I stand by my point that *these leads are inherently unsafe when the onus is on the user to "remember" to make it safe* before approaching a road. Safety should be built into the design.

I agree Bisbow entirely, we can all be forgetful and if you look back through my posts carefully you will see that I did in fact say so. From post 168:-

"Humans are imperfect beings, they can be distracted, make mistakes, have a bad nights sleep. They may be on medication that affect memory. They *may* just be a bit forgetful as they age."

Read what I write, not what you think I mean please?


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## MaggiesMom (Oct 13, 2016)

I think what @cbcdesign was trying to do was just highlight how you can't take your eye off the ball for a second as accidents can happen, and very tragic ones at that. I don't think the intention was to ever cause offence.
As mentioned by myself in another flexi thread, I think people get a bit romantic , thinking great I'll be able to let me dog go further ,and over enthusiastic about them and set off without trialing them somewhere safer first like their back garden, then get surprised when their dog takes off. It often surprises people how strong their dog really is.

Also, the amount of cheap alternatives to the actual flexi brand is frightening. I personally bought an actual flexi from pets at home but when looking for my long line I tried ebay and was shocked to see so called flexis for as cheap as £3.99 etc. We all like to save money but this is not an area worth scrimping on, so my advice would to be only buy an actual flexi and test it out first (indoors or enclosed space) if you're new to them. I think another issue is people not knowing the weight of their dog and not buying a strong enough lead. Although I'm not keen on them for extra heavy dogs but thats just my opinion. On another note, do flexis wear out? Should they be replaced after a few years? Maybe that's another contributing factor to mechanism failure?
I think the bottom line is just BE CAREFUL, extra cautious and leave the house with two leads!


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## PetsBestBuddy (Oct 17, 2013)

I suppose at the end of the day, choosing to use a flexi lead or a long line comes down to each individual's personal preference and experience. I choose to use a long line, as a piece of training equipment, because that is what I am more comfortable with. I used to own and work with horses, including breaking one of my own youngsters to harness, so have a lot of experience in handling both a 30ft lunge line and a pair of long lines with a 300kg+ animal on the end. Being able to handle the long line correctly and safely comes as second nature after many years of experience in handling and training horses.
I choose to not use a flexi lead after both of the ones I bought when my old girl was 18 months old failed. Both genuine Flexi brand, both the correct size for my dog's weight (44lb/19.95kg max weight - she weighed 15.4kg) and both bought in pets at home in 2004. Having had 2 flexis fail doesn't make me "stupid" or mean that I was using them incorrectly. I had followed the (basic and minimal) "how to use" instructions on the packaging.
My long line has been invaluable while doing recall training with my rescue pup. A flexi lead would not have been safe or suitable for this dog. I have had to be extra careful with her as the people who gave her up had claimed that she was "aggressive". She was just 7 months, 22 days old when I took her in as an emergency foster and was frightened of everything. She hasn't shown even the slightest hint of aggression in any way, shape or form in the 10 months I've had her, but I still had to be careful and take things slowly with her just incase. So after starting her recall training in the house and building it up to outdoors on a standard lead (stopping and running backwards while calling her to me regularly during walks), then moving on to a longer (5m) training lead, then a long line which I could gradually lengthen out while still keeping hold of it as her training progressed, to allowing her to run freely with the long line trailing, to letting her off the long line when in open spaces with plenty of distance to see other dogs, to letting her off her lead or long line to run freely with my other dog, then finally, which I just started doing 3 weeks ago, letting her off lead around other dogs.
We never had any problems with the long line getting caught up on either her, my other dog or anything on the ground and I have been using it daily for several months. I couldn't have done her recall training in this way with a flexi lead.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

MaggiesMom said:


> I think what @cbcdesign was trying to do was just highlight *how you can't take your eye off the ball for a second as accidents can happen*, and very tragic ones at that. I don't think the intention was to ever cause offence.
> As mentioned by myself in another flexi thread, I think people get a bit romantic , thinking great I'll be able to let me dog go further ,and over enthusiastic about them and set off without trialing them somewhere safer first like their back garden, then get surprised when their dog takes off. It often surprises people how strong their dog really is.
> 
> Also, the amount of cheap alternatives to the actual flexi brand is frightening. I personally bought an actual flexi from pets at home but when looking for my long line I tried ebay and was shocked to see so called flexis for as cheap as £3.99 etc. We all like to save money but this is not an area worth scrimping on, so my advice would to be only buy an actual flexi and test it out first (indoors or enclosed space) if you're new to them. I think another issue is people not knowing the weight of their dog and not buying a strong enough lead. Although I'm not keen on them for extra heavy dogs but thats just my opinion. On another note, do flexis wear out? Should they be replaced after a few years? Maybe that's another contributing factor to mechanism failure?
> I think the bottom line is just BE CAREFUL, extra cautious and leave the house with two leads!


Absolutely right maggiesmom, Thank you.
The less we have to think about when trying to negotiate busy roads with our dogs the less likely it is our pets will be hurt or killed.

This is a lead people, can we not discuss its weakness objectively as a warning to others so that lives are saved?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

cbcdesign said:


> I think you are very wise. Only foolish people in my opinion refuse to learn the lessons other peoples misfortune can teach us and if we don't learn from past mistakes we are destined to keep repeating them.


You say you have never blamed the users of the flexi, only the device itself. Your statement above contradicts that. You suggest that because some dogs have died because of flexis either failing or being misused, those among us who don't learn from that are foolish.

When I use a flexi, whilst on pavements or roads, the lead is shortened to about five feet in length, the brake is applied and I hold the case in my left hand. With my right hand, I hold the upper tape section, closest to the case, as I would an ordinary lead. I am not relying on the brake mechanism.

I have been doing this for over thirty years now and I do this automatically, as we do other things, such as when we drive a car.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

cbcdesign said:


> Absolutely right maggiesmom, Thank you.
> The less we have to think about when trying to negotiate busy roads with our dogs the less likely it is our pets will be hurt or killed.
> 
> This is a lead people, can we not discuss its weakness objectively as a warning to others so that lives are saved?


Yes we can but all leads have weakness such as clips, stitching, different fabrics etc etc, but you have been condescending and rude to people who use them, insinuating we are idiots and putting our dogs at risk if we continue to use them.


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## AlexPed2393 (Oct 5, 2016)

Sweety said:


> You say you have never blamed the users of the flexi, only the device itself. Your statement above contradicts that. You suggest that because some dogs have died because of flexis either failing or being misused, those among us who don't learn from that are foolish.
> 
> When I use a flexi, whilst on pavements or roads, the lead is shortened to about five feet in length, the brake is applied and I hold the case in my left hand. With my right hand, I hold the upper tape section, closest to the case, as I would an ordinary lead. I am not relying on the brake mechanism.
> 
> I have been doing this for over thirty years now and I do this automatically, as we do other things, such as when we drive a car.


If I was using a flexi and grabbed the upper tape section my dog would be a foot in the air... granted she isn't very big but what do owners of small/medium sized dogs do in this situation instead of squatting down and holding the flexi lead?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

PetsBestBuddy said:


> I suppose at the end of the day, choosing to use a flexi lead or a long line comes down to each individual's personal preference and experience. I choose to use a long line, as a piece of training equipment, because that is what I am more comfortable with. I used to own and work with horses, including breaking one of my own youngsters to harness, so have a lot of experience in handling both a 30ft lunge line and a pair of long lines with a 300kg+ animal on the end. Being able to handle the long line correctly and safely comes as second nature after many years of experience in handling and training horses.
> .


We are all different. I have broken many horses to harness and have long reined them plus I long rein my older ones regularly. I also teach people how to long rein yet I do not see any relation to long reining a horse and using a long line on a dog.

I was going to say the same as Sweety, if that quote is not calling flexi lead users fools I do not know what is.

Also if flexi did put in detailed instructions how would it help - there are loads of different makes.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

AlexPed2393 said:


> If I was using a flexi and grabbed the upper tape section my dog would be a foot in the air... granted she isn't very big but what do owners of small/medium sized dogs do in this situation instead of squatting down and holding the flexi lead?


Eh?

My dog is a twelve inch tall Jack Russell.

I'm talking about the section of the lead closest to the case. I hold the case in my left hand, with the brake applied and my thumb on the button, then use my right hand to hold the lead itself, with Rosie on my right hand side.


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## AlexPed2393 (Oct 5, 2016)

Sweety said:


> Eh?
> 
> My dog is a twelve inch tall Jack Russell.
> 
> I'm talking about the section of the lead closest to the case. I hold the case in my left hand, with the brake applied and my thumb on the button, then use my right hand to hold the lead itself, with Rosie on my right hand side.


Oh do you have a tape or a thread/rope flexi, as this wouldn't work with a thread/rope one


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> I apologies if that term offended you, I meant nothing by it. Its just a phrase that a great many older people themselves use to describe the odd forgetful moment.
> 
> I stand by my point that *these leads are inherently unsafe when the onus is on the user to "remember" to make it safe* before approaching a road. Safety should be built into the design.
> 
> ...


Not just "senior moments" I have an issue with, you are coming across as very ageist and generally condescending towards dog owners who have responsibly for years used Flexi's.

Let me know when Flexi get back to you on your improvements to their product, would genuinely be interested to hear about changes they are willing to make. Mine is the Long Comfort which has a non-slip grip on it which I find essential, the newer versions that I've seen don't seem to have this. Also I'd like a Long Comfort tape but can only buy cord versions.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

AlexPed2393 said:


> If I was using a flexi and grabbed the upper tape section my dog would be a foot in the air... granted she isn't very big but what do owners of small/medium sized dogs do in this situation instead of squatting down and holding the flexi lead?


Hmmm, I can grab the top part of the belt, granted I have to bend slightly. I do this while waiting to cross a road.
Muttly is 10 inches tall and I'm 5ft 5"
The other difference may be that I bought a Flexi stop belt, so it isn't the original belt that it comes with. Maybe these are longer?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I should have said I hold the section closest to the clip, not closest to the case.

My flexis are cord, but they have a double tape section next to the clip, which is about two and a half foot long. I can hold it no problem with Rudi, but do have to lean a little to hold it with Rosie.

I only ever bought a tape flexi once and I didn't like it. The tape kept twisting and I was worried it could snag inside the case. I stick to the cord ones.


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## PetsBestBuddy (Oct 17, 2013)

Blitz said:


> We are all different. I have broken many horses to harness and have long reined them plus I long rein my older ones regularly. I also teach people how to long rein yet* I do not see any relation to long reining a horse and using a long line on a dog.*
> 
> I was going to say the same as Sweety, if that quote is not calling flexi lead users fools I do not know what is.
> 
> Also if flexi did put in detailed instructions how would it help - there are loads of different makes.


BIB - My reference to the relation between using a lunge line or long reins on a horse to using a long line on a dog is that the handling of the line, albeit on different sized animals, is the same regarding holding the line safely, feeding the line out and how to bring the dog back to you if he/she isn't fully recall trained or is too distracted and not responding. 
Okay, you don't take horses for walks around fields with a line attached to the headcollar or bridle and the free end trailing so that they can go for a run  , but whenever I long reined any of mine in a school, I did teach them that a line being dropped and trailing along behind them wasn't something to be scared of or panic about. I often ended long reining sessions in the school by dropping both lines and walking to my horse's head.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Sweety said:


> I should have said I hold the section closest to the clip, not closest to the case.
> 
> My flexis are cord, but they have a double tape section next to the clip, which is about two and a half foot long. I can hold it no problem with Rudi, but do have to lean a little to hold it with Rosie.
> 
> I only ever bought a tape flexi once and I didn't like it. The tape kept twisting and I was worried it could snag inside the case. I stick to the cord ones.


Although we are using the tape one now, I do prefer the cord one especially with the double tape section which makes it so easy to hold that part and haver good control. There is something slightly weird about the tape one, not sure what it is, but I'm not totally happy with it. Unfortunately I needed one quickly and the shop didn't have the longer length in the cord version and I thought the tape would be fine. It does what it's supposed to do perfectly well, but there is just something about it that I can't quite come to terms with.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

The black part?








If you think, Muttly's shoulders are 10" tall, so the stop belt I have must be more than that when you see here to compare. So yeah can just reach. This is the part I grab to wait by a road.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

westie~ma said:


> Not just "senior moments" I have an issue with, you are coming across as very ageist and generally condescending towards dog owners who have responsibly for years used Flexi's.
> 
> Let me know when Flexi get back to you on your improvements to their product, would genuinely be interested to hear about changes they are willing to make. Mine is the Long Comfort which has a non-slip grip on it which I find essential, the newer versions that I've seen don't seem to have this. Also I'd like a Long Comfort tape but can only buy cord versions.


You can carry on accusing me of something that is not true as much as you like, it wont change the fact that you are interpreting my posts incorrectly. Nor have I been condescending to people who use them responsibly and quite clearly said in an earlier post that I can see a use for them as a training tool (an example of using them responsibly) in an appropriate place. You appear to be ignoring posts that spell out my position on the matter and choosing to read others I have made which contain the odd phrase or word from which you can take offence where none was offered. I cannot stop you doing that but as I have repeatedly said, the flaw with these devices in my opinion is that safety is a feature that has to be manually engaged. I cannot be any clearer than that!

I will of course report back what if anything the manufacturers say but I am afraid based upon the rather emotional response some owners of these devices have expressed on this thread the designers are likely to be even more defensive of their product and will probably not like my criticism of their design choices. I will be extremely surprised if they come back to me at all.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

We weren't happy with the tape one, it didn't rewind as easily and seemed to snag up in the handle. We took it back and changed it for another cord one. 
I like the look of the bungee extension.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Muttly said:


> The black part?
> View attachment 296898
> 
> If you think, Muttly's shoulders are 10" tall, so the stop belt I have must be more than that when you see here to compare. So yeah can just reach. This is the part I grab to wait by a road.


Yes, that's it, the black section.

When we're walking along pavements, I shorten the lead to about five foot, use the brake and keep my thumb on it. Were the brake mechanism to fail, Rosie would be by my side, so I would quickly be able to grab the lead.

It's when we need to cross a road I hold the tape section in my right hand.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

cbcdesign said:


> I will be extremely surprised if they come back to me at all.


And the company certainly won't put any safety warnings on their site as it would effect sales.

I know there are plenty of folk who have used them forever and never had a problem and that's great but as someone who has never used one, I didn't even realise that people who used them should know not to use them near a road or to hold the harness if they were or to even hold the cord. I have seen them used copiously around the roads with dogs in all positions. Fools? Maybe. Uninformed. More likely.



Ceiling Kitty said:


> How do we think we could increase public awareness of the potential dangers of flexi-leads and how to use them safely?
> 
> In my experience (and admittedly I've never really spoken to anyone in great detail about it outside the discussions on here), most people using flexi-leads just don't have any concept of their limitations. Hence they would quite happily use them near roads etc.
> 
> I would say folk on here are selected for their interest in dog matters and may not represent the general dog-owning population in general. Not everyone is as savvy.


Absolutely.

J


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2017)

Couple of thoughts...
Let's not forget that the OP witnessed a dog die tragically right in front of them. If that doesn't deserve getting cut some slack, I don't know what does. We are constantly being chided on here by the niceness police to be kind and understanding to members who might be upset or feeling delicate. I think this is a good example of practicing what you preach.
@cbcdesign I hope you are feeling a little less upset today.

It has been said several times that the membership here is not an accurate representation of most of the dog owning public. I think it's safe to assume anyone who is a PF member is going to use retractable leashes responsibly and with their dog's best interest in mind. However, PF members are not most dog owners, and the reality is, most dog owners are using flexis without having control over their dog, they're using them near roads, they're letting their dog wander about without paying attention etc., etc., etc.
In the US, Consumer Reports put out a statement alerting dog owners to the dangers of these leashes. Many dog venues prohibit their use. All of this points to the fact that retractable leashes can be dangerous if not used correctly.

There is nothing wrong with commenting on the potential danger of a training too. No need to take it personally


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

ouesi said:


> Couple of thoughts...
> Let's not forget that the OP witnessed a dog die tragically right in front of them. If that doesn't deserve getting cut some slack, I don't know what does. We are constantly being chided on her by the niceness police to be kind and understanding to members who might be upset or feeling delicate. I think this is a good example of practicing what you preach.
> @cbcdesign I hope you are feeling a little less upset today.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I am feeling better now a couple of days has passed. I am a bloke by the way.
In the UK there have been articles in the national press about the dangers of retractable leashes too by the way.
And we must also remember that these threads are read by a lot of people who are not members of PF none the less they can learn a great deal from them. My opening post was very much with the average dog owner in mind not the highly experienced folk who frequent this forum


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Missy's was a cord variety and lasted over 15 odd years ( was previously bought before Missy even arrived! ) until it started fraying around that tape part, so that was thrown. The boys both share the same larger tape variety and personally I find them more secure and durable for larger dogs. I think that one is a good 1o years old or so and still in great condition. I haven't noticed any differences in use with either variety though.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Sweety said:


> You say you have never blamed the users of the flexi, only the device itself. Your statement above contradicts that.


Absolute rubbish. I said "Only foolish people in my opinion refuse to learn the lessons other peoples misfortune can teach us"
Your comment is supposition on your part, nothing more. Conjecture seems to be a running theme for some of you.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

PetsBestBuddy said:


> BIB - My reference to the relation between using a lunge line or long reins on a horse to using a long line on a dog is that the handling of the line, albeit on different sized animals, is the same regarding holding the line safely, feeding the line out and how to bring the dog back to you if he/she isn't fully recall trained or is too distracted and not responding.
> Okay, you don't take horses for walks around fields with a line attached to the headcollar or bridle and the free end trailing so that they can go for a run  , but whenever I long reined any of mine in a school, I did teach them that a line being dropped and trailing along behind them wasn't something to be scared of or panic about. I often ended long reining sessions in the school by dropping both lines and walking to my horse's head.


I still do not see the correlation. If you are long reining you are keeping a set distance from the horse and keeping contact. There is not miles of slack, as you are always the same distance away. You are only feeding it out at the start of the session. And yes, I usually drop both reins and go to their head.



Jamesgoeswalkies said:


> And the company certainly won't put any safety warnings on their site as it would effect sales.
> 
> I know there are plenty of folk who have used them forever and never had a problem and that's great but as someone who has never used one, I didn't even realise that people who used them should know not to use them near a road or to hold the harness if they were or to even hold the cord. I have seen them used copiously around the roads with dogs in all positions. Fools? Maybe. Uninformed. More likely.
> 
> ...


I think fools is more likely. I do not see how being informed or otherwise comes into it. If you are talking about people that have the dog at full length. You do not need to have ever seen a dog before to know that if it can range 15 feet from you and you are walking by a main road then the dog can go in the road. Surely that does not have to be actually explained to anyone.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Blitz said:


> I think fools is more likely. I do not see how being informed or otherwise comes into it. If you are talking about people that have the dog at full length. You do not need to have ever seen a dog before to know that if it can range 15 feet from you and you are walking by a main road then the dog can go in the road. Surely that does not have to be actually explained to anyone.


You would think not but use is not the only issue is it? Brake mechanism failure is a potential problem too that people who live in the UK where safety is normally expected in products sold on the high street would just expect.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Blitz said:


> I still do not see the correlation. If you are long reining you are keeping a set distance from the horse and keeping contact. There is not miles of slack, as you are always the same distance away. You are only feeding it out at the start of the session. And yes, I usually drop both reins and go to their head.
> 
> I think fools is more likely. I do not see how being informed or otherwise comes into it. If you are talking about people that have the dog at full length. You do not need to have ever seen a dog before to know that if it can range 15 feet from you and you are walking by a main road then the dog can go in the road. Surely that does not have to be actually explained to anyone.


Some people will always do stupid things, whether they're using a flexi, long line, ordinary lead or no lead at all.

The wood in which I take Rosie has a hedge running the length at the side and this hedge, which has big gaps in it, is next to an extremely busy main road.

Several days a week, a woman turns up with a young Cocker and a pug cross. She always lets them off the lead in the wood and the pair of them go berserk, tearing round, chasing squirrels and running to other dogs. On several occasions, I've seen one or both of them dive through the hedge and out onto the pavement at the side of the road.

When this happens, she begins screaming her head off, yet she continues to let them offlead in such a potentially dangerous place. I asked her why she did it one day, when she was crying because the pug had narrowly missed being run over. She said because it's cruel to keep dogs on a lead.

How one of these dogs hasn't been killed, I'll never know, but I have the feeling that if one of them were to be run over, the owner would learn nothing from it.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

Blitz said:


> I think fools is more likely. I do not see how being informed or otherwise comes into it. *If you are talking about people that have the dog at full length. * You do not need to have ever seen a dog before to know that if it can range 15 feet from you and you are walking by a main road then the dog can go in the road. Surely that does not have to be actually explained to anyone.


lol if I saw anyone with their dog at full length beside a road I'd go over and talk to them myself! No, I'm commenting on the general consensus on this thread by people who use Flexi leads, that that you should know not to use them beside a road or if you do you should hold their harness/the cord. And I'm saying that this isn't how Joe public use them in my experience and that if this is the case this information should be made clear .....on the Flexi website.

You're foolish to let a dog be miles ahead of you or not under control by a road ....absolutely.......but walking along, too and fro sniffing ...I see it everyday.

J


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## PetsBestBuddy (Oct 17, 2013)

The operation and safety instructions are more comprehensive on Flexi's USA site than they are on the UK site...
e.g. The USA site warns of the danger of amputations or bone fractures if the cord or tape gets caught on a ring or around a finger. The UK site doesn't.
The USA site also has downloadable safety instructions, a separate download each for the cord flexi, the tape flexi and the Vario flexi. The UK site does not.
So, it appears that Flexi ARE very aware of the potential dangers of using their products, so why don't they have the same comprehensive safety instructions on all of their sites ?

The shorter, more basic operation instructions appear on all of Flexi's sites (English, Spanish, French, Italian, Netherlands, Russian, Japanese (site in English), Chinese and Traditional Chinese), with only the USA site showing much more comprehensive instructions and highlighting the potential dangers.

Flexi UK - http://www.flexilead.com/en/operation/

Flexi USA - http://www.flexi-northamerica.com/us/operation/


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2017)

PetsBestBuddy said:


> The USA site warns of the danger of amputations or bone fractures if the cord or tape gets caught on a ring or around a finger.


Because this has happened enough times that they were getting sued for medical expenses and they're trying to cover their asses. 
And it's not just humans who get fingers amputated. Dogs have suffered horrific injuries because of flexi cords too


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## PetsBestBuddy (Oct 17, 2013)

Blitz said:


> *I still do not see the correlation. If you are long reining you are keeping a set distance from the horse and keeping contact. There is not miles of slack, as you are always the same distance away. You are only feeding it out at the start of the session. * And yes, I usually drop both reins and go to their head.
> 
> If you are long reining a youngster or particularly sensitive or spooky horse and it baulks or shies, you need to adjust your contact on the long lines because the distance between you and the horse isn't constant until the horse gains experience...but yes, the contact would remain constant on an experienced, sensible, bombproof horse who has been long reined, lunged and/or ridden in different settings and therefore isn't flighty...
> 
> I think fools is more likely. I do not see how being informed or otherwise comes into it. If you are talking about people that have the dog at full length. You do not need to have ever seen a dog before to know that if it can range 15 feet from you and you are walking by a main road then the dog can go in the road. Surely that does not have to be actually explained to anyone.


@ouesi SPOT ON !


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

"Do not use this leash with a disobedient or uncontrollable dog, since they are more likely to wrap the cord/tape/belt around people or to run off at high speeds."

If the dog is obedient why is the flexi even necessary? My dog walks by my side in safe ares when off lead if instructed to do so and is on lead when not in safe areas. I see no advantage in only using a flex on a dog that is obedient, its somewhat limiting as a training aid if it can only be used that way.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> "Do not use this leash with a disobedient or uncontrollable dog, since they are more likely to wrap the cord/tape/belt around people or to run off at high speeds."
> 
> If the dog is obedient why is the flexi even necessary? My dog walks by my side when off lead if instructed to do so when in safe areas and on lead when not in safe areas. I see no advantage is using a flex on a dog that is obedient.


Isnt that from the US site, a country where they have some very strict leash laws? Which is, ive always assumed, why the Flexi was invented in the first place.

Obedience can be subjective.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

Nonnie said:


> Isnt that from the US site, a country where they have some very strict leash laws? Which is, ive always assumed, why the Flexi was invented in the first place.
> 
> Obedience can be subjective.


Yes it is Nonnie. Just saying they seem to be saying if your dog is likely to run off which is surely one reason why you may want to use a leash with some flexibility don't use it. That seems a bit odd to me. Ouesi is right, this looks like severe ass covering.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Yes it is Nonnie. Just saying they seem to be saying if your dog is likely to run off which is surely one reason why you may want to use a leash with some flexibility don't use it. That seems a bit odd to me.


I guess, and i guess not.

My dog behaves very differently on his Flexi, than he does off it.

On it, he doesnt bugger about (often) or try to charge at full speed (often) when off lead he is like a rat out of an aquaduct, with little to no sense of self preservation.

For instance, today i used my Flexi in a 'safe' area (no roads, livestock etc). I *could* have let him off, but just a few metres from the main path is a discarded and hidden barbed wire fence. As my dog rips open very easily, giving him the opportunity to potentially seriously damage himself was not a risk i was willing to make. So he went on his Flexi; he adjusted his behaviour and energy levels, and if he got too close i was able to whack the brakes on and redirect him in the opposite direction.

Not being a biddable or owner orientated breed type, i wont put his, or my, training to the test. Id rather stick him on a 10 metre contraption, give him some freedom to mooch about in places off the beaten track and undergrowth, and have peace of mind.


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## PetsBestBuddy (Oct 17, 2013)

But Nonnie, USA site or not, strict leash laws or not, that particular statement highlights the point that you are more likely to sustain an injury if you use a flexi with a disobedient or uncontrollable dog, why have flexi only highlighted this, and other dangers on their USA site but not on any of their 11 others ? Surely a danger is a danger, no matter what country you live in or what language you speak. Or...are they afraid of being sued by American users because they KNOW their products can cause serious injury, so they have to highlight the dangers to cover their backsides ?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> "Do not use this leash with a disobedient or uncontrollable dog, since they are more likely to wrap the cord/tape/belt around people or to run off at high speeds."
> 
> If the dog is obedient why is the flexi even necessary? My dog walks by my side in safe ares when off lead if instructed to do so and is on lead when not in safe areas. I see no advantage in only using a flex on a dog that is obedient, its somewhat limiting as a training aid if it can only be used that way.


My dog is also obedient but his recall isn't 100%. Also his adoption paperwork states he is not to be let of the lead in public places.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> My dog is also obedient but his recall isn't 100%. *Also his adoption paperwork states he is not to be let of the lead in public places*.


Is that a general condition applied to all dogs from that particular rescue or only for certain dogs?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

A


cbcdesign said:


> Is that a general condition applied to all dogs from that particular rescue or only for certain dogs?


All dogs


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> A
> All dogs


Blimey, that's a bit harsh. Off lead time is important, in some breeds more than others like working breeds that need plenty of exercise.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Blimey, that's a bit harsh. Off lead time is important, in some breeds more than others like working breeds that need plenty of exercise.


I don't think he realises he is missing anything. Even when all the others are off lead he is happy to potter along side us on his flexi sniffing


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> I don't think he realises he is missing anything. Even when all the others are off lead he is happy to potter along side us on his flexi sniffing


Oh well that's good, as long as he's happy.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Oh well that's good, as long as he's happy.


He has been off lead in enclosed areas and his recall does seem quite good really. I would not trust him if he saw another dog I don't think.
He is a happy dog anyway very easy to please


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

cbcdesign said:


> Blimey, that's a bit harsh. Off lead time is important, in some breeds more than others like working breeds that need plenty of exercise.


That is quite a bold statement, so are you saying all the responsible Northern Breed/Huskie type dog owners are being unfair to their dogs when they only get on lead exercise  can, worms and open springs to mind


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

MontyMaude said:


> That is quite a bold statement, so are you saying all the responsible Northern Breed/Huskie type dog owners are being unfair to their dogs when they only get on lead exercise  can, worms and open springs to mind


I am not entirely sure how I am supposed to have fathomed out the rescue only deals with huskie type dogs! Supposed to read minds now too am I?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Not sure what is going on here as I have seen Ouesi quoted but not seen her post and the same with another post Am I being blocked or what. 

Anyway back to the horse analogy. Ouesi, I agree with you that a young horse is going to be more erratic and you are going to have to be constantly shortening and lengthening long reins but you are never going to have a lot of slack and the horse should not be ranging around like a dog. Also you are training the horse, you are concentrating 100 percent on it. You are not out for an enjoyable walk with your dog who is running around having fun.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> You can carry on accusing me of something that is not true as much as you like, it wont change the fact that you are interpreting my posts incorrectly. Nor have I been condescending to people who use them responsibly and quite clearly said in an earlier post that I can see a use for them as a training tool (an example of using them responsibly) in an appropriate place. You appear to be ignoring posts that spell out my position on the matter and choosing to read others I have made which contain the odd phrase or word from which you can take offence where none was offered. I cannot stop you doing that but as I have repeatedly said, the flaw with these devices in my opinion is that safety is a feature that has to be manually engaged. I cannot be any clearer than that!
> 
> I will of course report back what if anything the manufacturers say but I am afraid based upon the rather emotional response some owners of these devices have expressed on this thread the designers are likely to be even more defensive of their product and will probably not like my criticism of their design choices. I will be extremely surprised if they come back to me at all.


You see, I don't think I am interpreting anything incorrectly. Your remarks were rude and condescending towards others.

Normally when I point out to members that their particular delivery could be a tad off skew its taken onboard so that things can continue to run smoothly. This thread could be useful to others which is why I mentioned your remarks rather than going ahead and possibly editing them or it escalating and closing it further along.



ouesi said:


> Couple of thoughts...
> Let's not forget that the OP witnessed a dog die tragically right in front of them. If that doesn't deserve getting cut some slack, I don't know what does. We are constantly being chided on here by the niceness police to be kind and understanding to members who might be upset or feeling delicate. I think this is a good example of practicing what you preach.
> @cbcdesign I hope you are feeling a little less upset today.
> 
> ...


If your post is in any way directed towards myself then I have expressed my sympathies about what was witnessed, thoughts too for that poor dog.

I am not here though to stand by and let members post remarks that are not appropriate.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

westie~ma said:


> You see, I don't think I am interpreting anything incorrectly. Your remarks were rude and condescending towards others.
> 
> Normally when I point out to members that their particular delivery could be a tad off skew its taken onboard so that things can continue to run smoothly. This thread could be useful to others which is why I mentioned your remarks rather than going ahead and possibly editing them or it escalating and closing it further along.
> 
> ...


Good grief give it a rest! You are wrong, staff or otherwise. End of.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Good grief give it a rest why don't you?


Excuse me?


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Good grief give it a rest! You are wrong, staff or otherwise. End of.


Edited after my post.

In your opinion but not about your rude remarks


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

westie~ma said:


> Excuse me?


You hear me. You have been picking on me all afternoon and as a staff member I find your attitude reprehensible. I have had enough of your sniping. Find somebody else to bully.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I can honestly say no one here is being bullied or 'picked on'
Sometimes people can't take harsh remarks back. So do not give what you can't take


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> You hear me. You have been picking on me all afternoon and as a staff member I find your attitude reprehensible. I have had enough of your sniping. Find somebody else to bully.


Pointing out that your remarks were rude is not bullying or sniping. It's my way of telling you that rudeness isn't necessary.


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> I can honestly say no one here is being bullied or 'picked on'
> Sometimes people can't take harsh remarks back. So do not give what you can't take


This individual has been accusing me along with her colleague of making disparaging remarks about people which I have not made. Not one post accuses anybody of anything of the kind and when challenged not one post has been identified as doing so either.

I have criticised a design having witnesses a horrific death and a lack of safety within it and yet several members have taken it upon themselves to continue hurling accusations of discrimination at me which is patently untrue. Staff or otherwise this is unacceptable. I will not tolerate this sort of nasty vindictive bullying from anybody.

I have had enough of these false accusations.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> This individual has been accusing me along with her colleague of making disparaging remarks about people which I have not made. Not one post accuses anybody of anything of the kind and when challenged not one post has been identified as doing so either.
> 
> I have criticised a design having witnesses a horrific death and a lack of safety within it and yet several members have taken it upon themselves to continue hurling accusations of discrimination at me which is patently untrue. Staff or otherwise this is unacceptable. I will not tolerate this sort of nasty vindictive bullying from anybody.
> 
> I have had enough of these false accusations.


The truth is your posts can read like that. I can understand you have had traumatic experience and are now very passionate about this topic. However some of your posts are quite abrasive and can be interpreted that way. It is how some of it does read wether it was intended or not


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## cbcdesign (Jul 3, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> The truth is your post can read like that. I can understand you have had traumatic experience and are now very passionate about this topic. However some of your posts are quite abrasive and can be interpreted that way.


Then you show me one claire? Point out where I have made discriminatory remarks about older people rather than a general comment most reasonably minded people would concede does affect some of us as we get older which is the principal accusation from two individuals on this thread?


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

cbcdesign said:


> Then you show me one claire? Point out where I have made discriminatory remarks about older people rather than a general comment most reasonably minded people would concede does affect some of us as we get older which is the principal accusation from two individuals on this thread?


So now I'm not "reasonably minded". 
Had enough of this.

Your words are there for all to read. 
Closing this.


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