# Not using litter tray but doing it in garden



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Hi,

I have noticed this week that Patch (9 mths) hasn't done a poo in her litter tray since the weekend and it doesn't look like she has been seeing either.

So been wondering where she is doing it. She has garden access and goes through the bushes to poke into the garden at back of ours. 

Anyway went to put recycling out and thought I'd have a look to see if she was doing it outside.

Lo and behold she's using the flower beds as her litter tray now!!!! Must have picked up nearly a bag full of poo in a nappy sack just now.

In spring there will be flowers replanted and she has only done it on the section where the flowers have died.

Yuck!

So how can I stop her doing this and back to using tray?

With 3 young children I don't want her to be pooing in Egypt garden and want her to use her litter tray. Nice as it has been not to have to scoop the poop and wee so much, picking it up from the garden was disgusting. 

Ideas please to deter her from pooing on the soil and back to using litter tray.

X


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Lisa, the problem is if you deter her from toiletting in your garden, (which it would be possible to do) there is every chance she will start using your neighbours' gardens instead Which would surely be MUCH worse, and could lead to your neighbours falling out with you. 

She is evidently a cat who prefers toiletting outside and so it is better to try and accommodate her needs really. The last thing you want is a cat who is stressed about her toiletting. I am afraid the only way you can ensure she will only use her indoor litter tray is to keep her shut indoors 24/7. Which seems very unfair to me as she likes to go out.

The reason why she pooed on the *surface* of the soil in your garden, rather than digging a hole and burying her poo, is because the ground is too hard at present for her to dig in. You could designate a part of your flowerbed as a loo for her and make 100% sure you dig it over every few days to keep the soil soft and easy for her to dig in.

If you decide to do this, you need to bear in mind the following fact :- 
buried cat poo takes at least 3 months to break down in garden soil. So unless you regularly dig over her loo space, remove the poo and bin it, your cat will quickly run out of clean space to toilet. She will then move to a fresh part of the garden OR worse, will start using neighbours' gardens, which I am sure you prefer to avoid.

The other alternative is to make an outdoor loo for her. This is what I did once, as my cat did not want to use a litter tray most of the time. 
I made a sand pit (using fine sand, of the type you put on lawns, or you can use builders sand). The loo needs protecting to keep it dry, so my OH made a little wooden shelter, it had sides and a pitched roof, but was open at both ends. I located it in a quiet part of the garden and my cat used it fine.

However, just as with an indoor tray, you will need to scoop every day to remove the soiled bits. If you forget or don't fancy going out in the wet or cold, your cat will soon stop using her outdoor loo as it will be too dirty and smelly for her.

If you're going to make a loo for her, then you'll need to discourage her from using your flower beds. Cats hate the smell of citrus so you can put down chopped orange and lemon peel everywhere in the flowerbeds. You will have to keep replacing it every so often, as it dries out and loses its scent.

Or buy a product called "Roar", which is well composted lion dung (from the zoos) which you buy from some garden centres. It has only a slight musty smell to the human nose, but cats seem to hate it. You would have to spread it on your flower beds, and again of course it would need replacing every few months as it got broken down and absorbed into the soil like any other type of compost.

If you have any outdoor covered area at the back of your house, such as a porch, then you could put out a couple of large covered trays for her, with ordinary cat litter. They also need to be tall enough for her to squat in up right to poo, so no lower than 46 cm. I would take off the door flaps as many cats find it claustrophobic being inside a covered tray with a door flap.

But if you adopt this last option I can't promise you she won't ignore the trays and prefer to use the garden. After all it is her instinct telling her to use the soil outdoors.

You could try putting soil in some outdoor litter trays for her, but it can be rather a messy business cleaning trays that have soil (mud) in them! Also, if you use soil and then bin the poo and compost the urine soaked bits, you will eventually have to buy more topsoil to replace what you have taken from your garden.

Good Luck!


----------



## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Cant really add much to Chillmix excellent post other than to say mine have a small cat fenced garden and to discourage them from using the flower beds I also have a covered "cat pit" with sand for drainage and small pebbles/gravel on top - mine seem to like this, I also have an outdoor covered tray from zooplus.

Also look on the bright side, my husband would kill for cats that preferred to go outside, he cant stand the indoor tray even though its in the utility room with the downstairs toilet and the smells he makes every morning are ten time worse than the cats - I keep telling him he will have to change to a raw diet  !


----------



## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Great deals on cat toilets and litter at zooplus: Marchioro Freecat Maxi Litter Box
You could try one of these.


----------



## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

Paddypaws said:


> Great deals on cat toilets and litter at zooplus: Marchioro Freecat Maxi Litter Box
> You could try one of these.


That is exactly what I have PP - its great, totally waterproof - also using one inside at the moment as the hood really cuts emissions


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks for the advise. My husband didn't seem so bothered about it, as he said it was better than in the litter tray in the kitchen.

Not really got much of a flower bed and she is using the part that is in the middle, where the plants have died. Rest of flower bed is an overgrown mess!

The local neighbourhood cats seem to like doing their business in our wood chip.

Will look at the link and talk to the husband. If she insists on going outside then she might as well have a tray there or an area especially for her.


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Hi ladies,

Been reading the great advise again today. I won't mind giving patch a section to use a toilet but I have the following problems.

1. The flower bed on one side of garden is full of shrubs and weeds, so no chance in using that and tends to be more in the shade.
2. The section she is currently using is a bare patch right in middle of flower bed, where the flowers I planted in spring died. Now if we eventually replant next spring will she just dig my flowers up to use it?
3. A separate section for her to use would be the answer outside, but no other flower bed space. 

We have a section of wood chip at back of garden where kids sand pit and slide are. Could we use a section on the end and put soil down? It will have the wood chip liner underneath.

What's the chances of converting her to using the waterproof covered litter tray in the link inside of flower bed. 

If we did allow her to have a section of garden or an outside covered litter tray, would we still need the indoor one? She's not used it since weekend.

Any ideas on why just this week she's not been using the tray? She was coming in and using it before. We've had her since August when we got her from the bluecross and never had a problem with litter tray.

Just when I thought I was learning about cats and she changes the plan!!! 

Guess she's in charge!


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

LisaandPatch said:


> > The section she is currently using is a bare patch right in middle of flower bed, where the flowers I planted in spring died. Now if we eventually replant next spring will she just dig my flowers up to use it?
> 
> 
> I don't think she would dig up actual plants as such, but she certainly might dig up any seeds you plant out.
> ...


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks for your reply CM.

When we plant in the spring it will be plants rather than seeds - I'm not great with plants! 

The wood chip area covers a large corner of the garden. But it does have the kids sand pit, trampoline and slide on it. Although there is a narrower section at one end it is right by the path ands the corner where the bench is. The kids in h summer will be using the path a lot. Unfortunately there is not really any part of the garden that has any privacy. We do have a small section in front of the bin hide, that is currently full of weeds, but it is right by the path down from the back door and it has the fence one side, path and conservatory other side. And not private as we will all walk past it to get into the garden.

Mmmm thinking that an outside litter tray will have to be the answer, so she gets privacy. No problem to scoop regularly with an outside on, just like I do indoor. With the indoor one, I was scooping poo as soon as she'd done it and scooping wee every other day - we used wood pellet litter. I would top up with litter during week and once a week would completely clean it, sift out unused litter to put back in, clean newspaper to line and then top up with new litter and mix old unused litter in to. Some weeks I did this twice. Although there was one or 2 occasions in past month when I did a complete change that I discovered poo, so she must have done it whilst I was out, covered it well and then the litter masked the smell and thus I missed it. Could this maybe be reason? I can clean, sift and replenish every few days if needed.

Now she is using the same section of soil to poop in, and I'm also assuming wee in to. When I picked up the discovered poo yesterday it was mainly in several places, rather than all over, although some was a bit buried.

Will speak to my husband re getting an outside tray and then where to put it. We do have a bin hide where the 2 large bins are kept. It's paved as part of path, and has fence one side and covered around most by bushes and then the gap is taken up with bins. I only go out to the every few days, when I need to put the recycling in one or a black bins bag in the other, oh and when I was scooping or cleaning the litter tray. Kids might go past it a lot but it is private if I put the tray at the back - would just need to get her to use it.

Maybe her Xmas present is an outside litter tray! Don't want her to get stressed and then this cause toiletting issues. Have a son who suffers with constipation and myself IBS so know the discomfort this can involve.

As you've probably guessed I'm a first time cat owner! Patch is really good in all other ways. Doesn't really scratch indoors, eats what food I put down from zooplus, great with the kids, likes her cuddles and attention. 

My other question is that I posted a thread the other day about what to do when we go to my brother in laws wedding on New Year's Eve and overnight stay. One plan was for her to stay at home, but be restricted to the house and my my would come over once, or other plan was to go for a holiday for a day to my parents. Now both scenarios involve being confined to the house,, how would this affect her with using litter tray? 

She's so got me as a slave!


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Oh and just thought of another question.

The cat flap is locked once she has her dinner at 5pm as its dark and we don't want her outside at night. It is reopened on the morning after I have put breakfast down at around 7-7.30am, depending on when the kids wake up.

As she now seems to do all her toilet business outside, is this okay to continue, or will she need access? I am going to completely clean the tray tomorrow and then I will be able to see if she is actually using it all.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Lisa, a couple of things about the (indoor) litter tray:- 

Most cats would like their litter tray cleared of wee at least once a day. (It is good you're removing the poo a.s.a.p.)

Wood pellet litter does not clump and as a result the wee spreads through a lot of litter, and therefore it is very difficult to tell which bits are wet.The wettest bits turn to sawdust so they are easy to spot, but the adjacent bits do not. So after you scoop and then mix the rest of the litter up in the tray you are contaminating the whole litter tray with urine.

Wood pellet litter is actually poor value for money as you have to throw so much away every time, and the tray needs emptying completely every few days. There are much more economical litters than wood pellet. They may be dearer to buy but last a lot longer. 

Your cat's tray must smell strongly of stale urine to her because of the wood pellet litter. Also some cats do not like weeing and pooing in the same tray, so if you are only providing one litter tray that may be the reason she started going outside. 

If you are keen to keep her using the indoor litter tray(s), then I'd recommend the following:

Provide 2 large trays. If they are covered trays ensure they're at least 
46 cm high, so the cat has enough head room for squatting upright to poop.

Use a good quality clumping litter, that is low in dust, soft on paws and similar in consistency to sand. (Zooplus has lots to choose from)

Fill each tray with 5 to 6 cms of litter. The urine will then form into round clumpy balls that are easy to remove and are less likely to stick to the bottom of the tray.

Scoop the urine out several times a day (morning, evening & bedtime)

Scoop the poo out a.s.a.p (as you are doing)

Empty the whole trays of litter and bin it every 10 days to 2 weeks, wash the trays in hot water and a little detergent, dry with paper towel and refill with new litter. 

Site the trays in positions where there is not much passing 'traffic' in the house, so she has privacy & quiet to do her business. 

If you follow this routine there is a possibility she might go back to toiletting indoors, though I can't say for definite, now she has got used to going outside. 

But if she is shut indoors for any length of time, e.g. when you are away for the night, she will definitely use the trays for weeing in. But if she has decided she prefers to poo outdoors, she may possibly hang on as long as she can without going in the trays. I wouldn't worry - if she is desperate she will use the trays. So always provide them even if she rarely uses them. 

She will get used to a routine of being shut in from 5 pm, and not let out again until the next morning and will likely adjust her bowel habits to fit in with that. Cats are very adaptable, and good at fitting in with humans routines.


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks CM.

I was scooping wee out as well each day, and can do this as suggested morning, afternoon and evening if needed.

We use wood pellet as that was what was used at the bluecross and as it was working didn't see the need to change it. I can do very regular complete changes if that would will her and when re bag is nearly gone to get a clumping one. Need to do a zooplus order soon anyway.

I thought mixing in some of the unused pellets from the tray with the new would help her use it as it was familiar smell but maybe that was wrong.

I will put less in and change all of it very few day along with scooping wee and poos several times a day. See if that encourages her to use it.

With the 3 kids and the house layout, there isn't really anywhere private. The kitchen is the best place. 

Off to think again!


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Right I have now completely changed the litter tray and cleaned it. There didn't look like much in it but underneath there was more. So have put new litter in and will now see if she uses it. Will scoop wees and poos several times a day. Not got as much of the wood pellet litter left as I thought so will have a look at zooplus and clumping litter. 

Not sure on what to do re outdoors yet but will provide a tray inside anyway, so looks like clumping litter is way forward.


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Okay have more questions! Sorry! Any recommendations on which litter to use. Been on zooplus but confused which is why we stayed with the wood pellet as all the differnt brands and types of litters swirled around in our heads.

Now the other issue I have is I have recently discovered that I am very very allergic to dust mites, so I'm having to clean , clean, clean to remo the dust as much as possible, as well as taking antihistamines And nasal sprays. So don't really want a litter that will make too much dust. Although as the tray is in the kitchen on the laminate flooring it is easily cleaned up.

Any suggestions?


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Lisa, most Rescues use wood pellet litter because of the low cost of buying it.
But it really is a false economy as you have to throw away so much every few days.

I have problems with dust in the air (as opposed to dust mites) because I have asthma, so I have to be very careful of what cat litter I buy as some of them are very dusty. For the past year I have been buying Cats Best Oko Plus, which is a cereal based litter. It is brilliant for clumping and easy to scoop, but I find when I have to change the whole tray it is a little bit dusty, not a lot, but enough to make me sneeze and cough. I have got around this problem by doing the changeover outside.

Lots of people like Cats Best for their cats, and cats themselves seem happy with it, as it is quite 
sand-like (the texture you want to be aiming for) See all the positive reviews on Zooplus:

Cats Best Öko Plus biodegradable Cat Litter Bargains at Zooplus

However I recently read a report which said this type of corn based litter is bad for cats lungs if it is being used in a covered tray as they inhale the dust. So I have decided to change to Tigerino Scent free clay based clumping litter. :

Tigerino Canada Cat Litter

I am especially keen on this one as it meant to be almost dust-free.

I know some people like the Tigerino wood-based one (its not pellets, more like small chips or shavings) I may get that one too after I've tried my cats with the clay-based Tigerino.

Tigerino Ecoverde Wood-based Clumping Cat Litter | Great deals at zooplus!

The best thing is to have a read of some of the reviews on Zooplus, and then buy the smallest size of a couple, then put them in different trays and see which she likes. Also, leave one tray with just wood pellets, for a day or two until she has switched to using the new type of litter.


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks for your advise again!

I will check out the links and pick one or 2 to try. Might as well order from zooplus when I order the food. At least this way I can order once a month for food and litter and get the free delivery. Spreads the cost to monthly so better budget wise, as was thinking of ordering every 2 months from zooplus. 

I have to use a face mask when dusting, hoovering etc so I can use this for cleaning the tray out if its dusty. We don't have the covered ones yet but definetly something to think about re the dust from litter if we do get one. 

Although the wood pellet seemed a good idea, it's time to change. I want patch to be happy to use the toilet whether it's an indoor or outdoor tray. A clumping one will be better in terms of how long it lasts if you are just scooping the clumps and then doing a full change roughly every 2 weeks. 

Think it will have to be a covered outside tray and the indoor one. The flower beds she is using is quite a small section and I will have to scoop daily. I'm hoping with the clean of tray and doing this religiously and scooping several times daily when she's using it, will help her be happy again to poop in it. 

This cat ownership is a steep learning curve!!! Just like the kids. Really hope my husband has ordered the cat book I got recommended on here for my Xmas present. Think he already thinks I'm a bit cat crazy!


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Hi,

Have decided to order some Tigerino litter with the next zooplus order. Will be ordering within the next week, once I've worked out what else I 'need'!

Now I completely changed the litter on Saturday and it's been untouched since. Any tips to encourage her to use it again? My husband doesn't seem bothered by her using the flower beds, so I will be scooping any poo from it while she continues to use it.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Only shutting her indoors Lisa. Once they start toiletting outdoors, and liking it, it can be difficult to get them to go back to using an indoor tray I'm afraid. 

It may be something like a heavy fall of snow on the ground, or some really cold weather to make her decide she'd rather use the tray. But then once the weather improves she may go back to using the garden. My outdoor cats only rarely use the indoor litter trays. Mostly they would rather hang on overnight until they are let out the next day. So the trays are just an insurance policy as it were. 

There is a product called "Cat Attract" you can add to cat litter. It's usually used for encouraging kittens to use the tray. You could try it, but I fear you may be wasting your money. Sorry


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks CM. I did think the reply would be what you have said. 

I don't see the point in buying anything to encourage her. 

I do keep popping her in the tray, when she's near. Yes maybe some bad weather like snow might break the cycle, even if it's only a short while. This might be all she needs, although i do understand that she might now only want to use outside. 

We are off to a family wedding on New Year's Eve and staying overnight, so she will have to be shut in then, regardless of who pops in to feed her. 

The flap is shut at 5pm and isn't opened till 7.30am, so she must be holding it till then. Although she doesn't bolt out the flap once opened either. 

I would like her to use the tray so that I can monitor her toileting habits, and then I'll be able to see if she maybe unwell or constipated etc.

She has to go past the litter tray to get out through the cat flap, so maybe one day she will just surprise me and use it! It is getting cold now too.


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Still no interest in the nice clean litter tray! I do pop her in it and she promptly jumps out.

I've been in to the garden and scooped the poop today, so not as much, but I did do it Monday. She might well be doing it elsewhere in the garden but as the rest is either bushes/trees at back or overgrown mess with plants the rest, I can't see it anywhere. Or she's doing it in another garden as you can get through the wire fence amongst the bushes.

I've been thinking of keeping her in for a day to see if this encourages her - would this be cruel? When we go away overnight in a few weeks she will be kept inside and I'd rather have her shut inside with us here first, to maybe minimise the stress to her. As when we are away overnight she will be shut in and be on her own, until someone pops into feed her. 

She does look with sad eyes whilst sitting at the back door waiting for the flap to be opened, but she has learnt that once it's shut at night no amount of soppy eyes gets it opened. 

I don't mind that she doesn't want to toilet inside anymore in a way, but there are times when she will have to be locked in and I don't want this to cause toiletting issues or problems for her. My 8 yr old suffers with constipation and when it's bad and he's on and off the toilet, he ends up holding it in as it hurts which just makes it all worse. 

She causes as much worry as the kids!


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Bump please!


----------



## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

I agree with chillminx that once they decide to toilet outside, then there is only a small chance that they would choose to change back to the tray.
However, if she is confined inside for any length of time while you go away then I am sure she will use the tray just fine.


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks PP. I just worry far too much! 

I'm placing a zooplus order today, so I'm going to order a small bag of clumping litter. Will use this when it comes. She obviously doesn't want to use the wood pellets in the litter tray. She will obviously have to use the litter tray, when she's shut in or the bad weather puts her off from outside. 

I will post again with any progress of any sort,

Xx


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Lisa, in case you haven't yet placed your ZP order for cat litter I thought 
I'd tell you of my experience with the Tigerino (Unscented) Canada Cat Litter. Friends had recommended it, and the marketing blurb claims it to be almost completely dust free. So I ordered some and it arrived yesterday.

Tigerino Canada Cat Litter

Must say I am quite disappointed with it. I find it far more dusty than Cats Best Oko Plus which I was using before. So dusty that it triggered an asthma attack whilst I was scooping one of the trays.

Also it tracks quite badly, all over the room.

It is not flushable so poo deposits have to be put in the bin. Not too bad in the winter, but not good in the summer. 

However I must say both my 6 mth old kittens took an immediate liking to it and began using it straight away. One kitty is very intrigued by the litter, it is very sand-like in consistency, and she likes playing with it before using it. 

So, it may be your cat would like the litter so much she would happily use the trays again instead of the garden. Though I wouldn't bet on it, unless she is in a position of no choice.

But as PP says, on the occasions when she has no outdoors access, when you are away overnight I am certain she will revert to using the trays without a problem. Ensure you leave at least 2 trays for her though when you are away overnight, in case your pop-in friend does not want to scoop!


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks CM. I placed my zooplus earlier this afternoon as plumped for the smallest bag of OKO as it was £6.99 versus £9.99 for the smallest bag of Tigerino. Not sure she will use it so didn't want to waste money, especially this close to Xmas. And it meant I could get her a laser pen and one of those snack ball things! 

That does not sound good re the Tigerino - it must be really dusty to have triggered an attack for you. Patch has an open litter tray. I'm hoping that maybe she will like the feel of the new litter versus the wood pellet, and maybe use it. She will have to use the tray if she is shut in, so I do hope it won't stress her out too much.

I plan to use the OKO once it arrives. If she has not used the litter tray at all since I cleaned it all out at the weekend, how long do I leave it down before changing it? Or do I just leave it till she does use it?

She's currently stretched out asleep on the lounge floor - easy life! 

Yes I'm not sure if my neighbour will scoop the litter tray, if she does end up feeding Patch. when we have fed her cat for her, I don't remember being asked to clean tray too. 

Thanks for your advise - I'm sure I'll be asking again!


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

LisaandPatch said:


> > If she has not used the litter tray at all since I cleaned it all out at the weekend, how long do I leave it down before changing it? Or do I just leave it till she does use it?
> 
> 
> I'd just leave it until such time as she uses it Lisa. I only change the entire litter when the tray has been used every day for about 10 days. Some people seem to leave it even longer, with a good clumping litter like Cats Best or Tigerino.
> ...


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Shock!

Patch went out this morning as usual and when she came back in, she went straight to the litter tray and did a wee!!!! 

It's been over 2 weeks since she last used it. No idea why she chose to come back in, but glad to see that she will use it. My new Oko litter is due any day with my zooplus order so will see if she likes this any better.

x


----------



## LisaandPatch (Sep 2, 2013)

Just a little update on Patch.

Well she has not used the Oko litter at home but we went to my brother in laws wedding on New Year's Eve, so Patch had to go for a little holiday to my parents. 

I was quite worried about the whole litter tray thing, as she had to stay indoors and was worried she'd try to hold it. But she did use the tray for wees and poos!!!!! So relieved.

She adapted well to staying (got to my parents at 4.30pm on the 30th and returned to them at 1.30pm on 1st). She only started to venture upstairs on the morning when we collected her. She didn't seem to mind not being able to go out. Although she did go out once we were home, she wasn't out for long. 

At least I know that she will use the tray if needed.

Looking to book a holiday for the summer, so staying at my parents whilst we are away is a good option, although she'd be confined to the house for a week. Will have to see as by then my sister in law will have returned to work and mum will be looking after the 2 kids 2 days a week. But I've been searching and there are several local catteries if needed.

Will worry about that later in year!!


----------

