# Can I have some advice about dog showing please? :)



## Tigerprawn

Hi All, 

I am new in the UK dog showing world, has been reading the rules & regulations over & over but the picture is still not clear so far&#8230; would be most grateful for your help. Or if you could please show me the link where to read about it all &#8220;for dummies&#8221;  So:

1.	How many challenge certificates do you have to win to become a champion? 
2.	How many to qualify for Crufts?
3.	Do you just have to win your own class to receive a CC?
4.	How do you know if the show is giving CC or not? At Fosse data there are open shows and some where it is not clear at all whether they give CC or not..
5.	Open shows with no CC &#8211; how many classes do you have to win to become a champion? To qualify for Crufts? Can you become a champion at all or what&#8217;s the deal with those Open shows?
6.	For Graduate class you &#8220;have to win less than 4 First Prizes at Championship shows.&#8221; What is it and what&#8217;s the difference between First Prizes and CC?
7.	Can I enter my dog to more than one class at the same show (i.e. junior and graduate)?
8.	Do I have to be a member of any club (I live in Surrey) or be a member of The Kennel Club?
9. I also read somewhere that you can also get points&#8230;and stars?? This I don&#8217;t understand at all&#8230; 

Thank you very much!

P.S. I have a one year old miniature schnauzer


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## babycham2002

Tigerprawn said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am new in the UK dog showing world, has been reading the rules & regulations over & over but the picture is still not clear so far… would be most grateful for your help. Or if you could please show me the link where to read about it all "for dummies"  So:
> 
> 1.	How many challenge certificates do you have to win to become a champion? 32.	How many to qualify for Crufts? none you have to get 1st to 3rd at a champ show (some classes excluded) or win best in show at an open3.	Do you just have to win your own class to receive a CC? yes else you wouldnt be in the final breed line up
> 4.	How do you know if the show is giving CC or not? At Fosse data there are open shows and some where it is not clear at all whether they give CC or not.. No open shows give cc's, it will always tell you in a champ show schedule5.	Open shows with no CC - how many classes do you have to win to become a champion? To qualify for Crufts? Can you become a champion at all or what's the deal with those Open shows?
> 6.	For Graduate class you "have to win less than 4 First Prizes at Championship shows." What is it and what's the difference between First Prizes and CC? First prize can be won in any class, a cc is a challenge certificate and is won by the BOB of each sex 7.	Can I enter my dog to more than one class at the same show (i.e. junior and graduate)?yes
> 8.	Do I have to be a member of any club (I live in Surrey) or be a member of The Kennel Club? no, your dog has to be kc registered9. I also read somewhere that you can also get points…and stars?? This I don't understand at all…
> You mean junior warrants and show certifcate of meritsThank you very much!
> 
> P.S. I have a one year old miniature schnauzer


I would suggest going on the KC website and having a browse
also this book Showing Your Dog: A Beginner's Guide: Amazon.co.uk: Elaine Everest: Books
culd be helpful for you


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## babycham2002

I still have lots to learn myself so apologies in advanvce if another member comes along in a mo to correct anything above, also there is more titles that can be gained like field trials etc.

I think where you are getting confused is with the number of classes

Do for example the other week. My dog Percy got 1st in his class which was junior.
Then there was an open class and a veteran class.
Then Percy goes up against the winners of the other classes in the breed. To get the title of Best of breed
In this instance he got best of breed so then we have to wait for the group stages, where he went up against the BOB winners for all of the toy dogs. Best of group then goes into Best in show.


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## babycham2002

This is the exact ins and outs of how you can qualify for crufts
Qualification for dfs Crufts 2011 | Crufts presented by the Kennel Club


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## babycham2002

Tigerprawn said:


> Hi All,
> 5.	Open shows with no CC  how many classes do you have to win to become a champion? To qualify for Crufts? Can you become a champion at all or whats the deal with those Open shows?
> 
> P.S. I have a one year old miniature schnauzer


Just realised I missed this question
No you cannot become a champion from open shows, but you can earn points which you record and can work towards your show certficate of merit which are initials which can then be put by the dogs name officially.

Below is when you can qualify for crufts at an open show

7) Premier Open Show 
For dogs that have been declared Best of Breed provided there were more than three breed classes (more than five classes for Stud Book Band E breeds) scheduled for the breed between 8 January 2010 and 7 January 2011.

(8) If it has won Best in Show, Reserve Best in Show or Best Puppy in Show at a General or Group Open Show between 8 January


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## dexter

i've posted a link for you to look at, apologies for not replying i'm just off out

Dog Showing | The Kennel Club


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## Tigerprawn

Thank you very much for your answers and very useful links!

So far I&#8217;ve at least realized that you need 3 CC&#8217;s under different judges to become a champion and in order to receive a CC you need to become BOB at a championship show, right?

In order to qualify for Crufts you just need to come 1st, 2nd or 3rd once at a champion show, right?

And what do you need to do to get yourself in the stud book (can girls be added there?) and why is it good to be added to the stud book?

Also I am still missing the point of the Open shows, are they just for fun?

Thank you!


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## ridgeback05

Tigerprawn said:


> Thank you very much for your answers and very useful links!
> 
> So far I've at least realized that you need 3 CC's under different judges to become a champion and in order to receive a CC you need to become BOB at a championship show, right?
> 
> In order to qualify for Crufts you just need to come 1st, 2nd or 3rd once at a champion show, right?
> 
> And what do you need to do to get yourself in the stud book (can girls be added there?) and why is it good to be added to the stud book?
> 
> Also I am still missing the point of the Open shows, are they just for fun?
> 
> Thank you!


no you dont have to be bob to get cc just best dog/bitch...

yes 1,2,3 in a class at a champ show to qualify for the next crufts show

open shows not just for fun...and if you are aiming for your jw (needs to be done by the time your dog reaches 18 months)...you need to get 3 points from open shows...

to get in the stud book you need results...for my breed you need either a 1st in limit or 1,2,3 in open class at champ shows...you can also get your studbook number by gaining your jw...or by gaining a cc or rcc...your studbook number qualifies you for crufts for life.girls can indeed get a studbook number.


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## Spellweaver

Tigerprawn said:


> In order to qualify for Crufts you just need to come 1st, 2nd or 3rd once at a champion show, right?


Yes, but only in certain classes though. These are:

Minor Puppy
Puppy
Junior
Yearling
Post Grad
Limit
Open
Veteran

You can also qualify by coming first in ANY breed class at Crufts - eg if one of my dogs gets a first on Friday he will qualify for Crufts 2012.

You can also qualify by getting Best of Breed at a Premier Open Show providing there were more than 3 classes for your breed. (or 5 classes for stud book band E)

You can also qualify by winning Best in Show, Reserve Best in Show, or Best Puppy in Show at an Open Show.

And if your dog is any of the following you are qualified to enter: Champion, Show Champion, Field Trial Champion, Working Trial Champion, Obedience Champion or Agiltiy Champion.

Similarly it is qualified to enter if it has a Stud Book number.



Tigerprawn said:


> And what do you need to do to get yourself in the stud book (can girls be added there?) and why is it good to be added to the stud book?


Miniature Schnauzers are in stud book band D, so in order to qualify for entry into the stud book your dog will need to win either 1st, 2nd or 3rd in Open or 1st in Limit at a Championship Show. Once your dog has his stud book number, he is qualified for Crufts for life.


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## swarthy

I think most of your questions have been answered - but here goes anyway 

1.	How many challenge certificates do you have to win to become a champion? 
THREE under three different judges - no time limit on when they are gained

2.	How many to qualify for Crufts?

No CC's needed to qualify for Crufts - as someone else has pointed out - it depends on the class and also the stud book band. Getting a CC however automatically gives the dog it's stud book number - qualifying it for Crufts for Life

In Labs (Band E) - it is 1st to Third (Championship show level only) in


Minor puppy
Puppy
Junior
Yearling
Post Graduate 
Limit (gives the dog it's stud book number)
Open (gives the dog it's stud book number)

*ANY class with "Special" in the title is NEVER a qualifying class*

3.	Do you just have to win your own class to receive a CC?
No - you have to win your class and then challenge the winners of all the other classes to get best dog (or bitch)

The best dog and bitch then challenge each other for Best of Breed and the right to challenge in the group (or BIS for single breed shows)

4.	How do you know if the show is giving CC or not? At Fosse data there are open shows and some where it is not clear at all whether they give CC or not..
CC's are only available at CH shows - and then it is advisable to check the schedules as CC's are not awarded for all breeds at all shows 

5.	Open shows with no CC  how many classes do you have to win to become a champion? To qualify for Crufts? Can you become a champion at all or whats the deal with those Open shows?
You cannot become a champion through doing Open Shows.

You can however get awarded a Show Certificate of Merit.

You get


1 point for Best of Breed
4 points for Group 1
3 Points for Group 2
2 points for Group 3
1 point for Group 4

You also get 5 points for Best In Show and 3 points for Reserve BIS for shows not judged on the group system.

There is no time limit on Show Certificate of Merit - however you need 25 points with a MINIMUM of 5 points gained from group placings (puppy group placings DO NOT Count)

6.	For Graduate class you have to win less than 4 First Prizes at Championship shows. What is it and whats the difference between First Prizes and CC?

Basically if you have a dog that is good enough, you work your way up through the classes

I think Undergraduate is 3 first places at UG or above, Graduate 4 places in GRaduate, PG 5 places, and Limit 7 first places and must not be a show champion under KC rules.

NB: These rules apply equally to Open and CH shows - HOWEVER - it is only Championship show placings that count for class eligbility.

Maiden and Novice are the classes you need to be sure of - ANY 1st place at Open or Championship show level outside puppy counts towards your ineligibility for these two classes


Maiden is one 1st place outside puppy
Novice is three 1st places outside puppy

You do occasionally get dogs who have been made up who are still in Limit Classes because of the qualifying dates. It if the status of the dog at the time of entry - which is usually 7 days before the postal closing date.

7.	Can I enter my dog to more than one class at the same show (i.e. junior and graduate)?
Yes you can - but you are not able to withdraw from breed classes if you win your class - so if you get beaten in your second class - then you are unable to challenge for BOB (Open shows) and for the CC at Champ Shows

You are able to withdraw your dog from any 'Any Variety Classes' it may be entered into if you wish to progress further in the competition - in my own experience, if it happens to the same judge - the benefits of doing this are futile - if the judge doesn't like your dog in the AV Class, not much is going to change by the group or Best in Show"


8.	Do I have to be a member of any club (I live in Surrey) or be a member of The Kennel Club?
NO - unless entering a Club Limit Show (will explain the differences below) - although some clubs do give discounts for members
9. I also read somewhere that you can also get pointsand stars?? This I dont understand at all 
Stars - that's if you show in Ireland - the Show Certificate of Merit Points I've hopefully explained above.

Dogs shown under 18 months can also be awared their Junior Warrant (which also gives them their stud book number) to get this - they need to come 1st in a class of more than 3 dogs. 25 points are required before 18 months to qualify for the Junior Warrant - and 3 points MUST be from a Championship show and 3 MUST be from an Open show - the remainder can be any split between the two

You get 

1 point for a first place at Open shows
3 points for a first place at CH show

If there are not three dogs in the class, you can get a single point for Best of Breed at Open Show Level (if there are more than three dogs in the class, you do not win anything for Best of Breed)

If you get a Reserve CC or a CC - you get your stud book number anyway

=======================================

*Different levels of show*


*Companion Shows *- these are fun shows - you don't have to enter in advance - your dog doesn't even have to be KC registered
*Limit shows *- these are for Members only - but you can sign up as a member at the time of entering - they are usually nice sociable affairs and good fun - although they do not contribute to any awards for the dog. Dogs with Challenge Certificates are not eligible to enter
*Open Shows* - these are a bit more serious than Limit Shows - as already mentioned BIS, RBIS and BPIS, RBPIS qualifies the dog for Crufts

*Premier Open Shows* - as already mentioned - as well as the Open show qualifiers - some shows will have Crufts qualification for Best of Breed.
Championship Shows - usually higher cost to enter (breed clubs are usually lower in cost than general champ shows) - and CC's will be on offer for MOST breeds (but you MUST check the schedule) - entry fees are usually lower for breeds that don't have CC's on offer. 

HTH

Good luck


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## Tigerprawn

swarthy, you are a star!!!  thank you!


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