# How do you get a black cat?



## Burmesemum (Mar 7, 2015)

Hi there. I've just got 2 adorable black kittens and out of interest just wanted to know genetically how do you get black cats?

Do the parents need to be a certain colour or can any cat produce black kittens.

Many thanks


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Black is the original 'wild' colour for cats so most cats are black. Cats inherit one colour gene from each parent. A cat needs only one black gene to be black and most DSH cats will have two black genes so black cats are the default colour if you like.

The original 'wild' pattern is tabby which is caused by the Agouti gene. A cat needs only one Agouti gene to be tabby but, as before, inherits one pattern gene from each parent. The mutation which causes a cat to be 'self' (one colour all over) is the non-agouti gene and a cat must inherit one of these from each parent to be one colour. So two tabbies can have self offspring if they each carry the non-agouti gene and self cats mated together will only produce self cats.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

My little black girl pretends to be a self but when the sun is shining on her just so.... I have seen her Secret Stripes. : )


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

lorilu said:


> My little black girl pretends to be a self but when the sun is shining on her just so.... I have seen her Secret Stripes. : )


She isn't pretending, Lorilu, she is a self but every single cat carries two genes for the sort of pattern, mackerel or classic. These are separate from the agouti gene which makes them 'real' tabbies. When they are kittens you can usually see the dominant pattern especially in the paler colours. I can remember one of my Havana girl's litters where I did not know she carried classic until I looked at a pic I had taken of one of the black kittens. So exciting because classic is not very common in orientals.


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## Burmesemum (Mar 7, 2015)

@QOTN thank you that's really interesting.

Actually although they are both very 'black' apart from a tuft of white fur on their chests I think I did spot stripes although they are hard to see.

Will have to take a good look at them.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

@Burmesemum Have to go to work now, later will post picks on this thread of my little girl's Secret Stripes if you'd like to see them : )


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## Burmesemum (Mar 7, 2015)

@lorilu yes would love to see


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Burmesemum said:


> @QOTN thank you that's really interesting.
> 
> Actually although they are both very 'black' apart from a tuft of white fur on their chests I think I did spot stripes although they are hard to see.
> 
> Will have to take a good look at them.


That tuft of white hair on their chest is probably due to the minor white spotting gene which randomly produces a few white hairs or spots in the locket, belly, armpit or bikini areas. I expect your boys have a mackerel tabby pattern (stripes) since again this is the original 'wild' form.


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## Burmesemum (Mar 7, 2015)

They probably have as I'm sure I noticed stripes although difficult to see. They wriggle about but will try and have a good look later.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

lorilu said:


> My little black girl pretends to be a self but when the sun is shining on her just so.... I have seen her Secret Stripes. : )


Next time you go to a zoo or wildlife park and see a Black Panther, have a close look if you can. They have "secret spots" - I've seen the pattern on one, when the light was at the right angle.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

It seems a simple question but the answer isn't quite as simple as there are a several genes involved:

colour - black - dominant so can come from just one parent, but in the case of moggies they just about only have the black gene
non-agouti - turns a tabby into a plain colour - recessive so has to come from both parents
dilute - recessive - turns black into blue (that sort of grey colour), and to be black they mustn't inherit 2 copies, so parents cannot both be blue or blue tabby.
So:

both black
one black, one brown tabby
two brown tabbies
one black, one blue
one brown tabby, one blue tabby
one black, one blue tabby
one brown tabby, one blue
In all these cases any tabby would have to carry non-agouti. They might have white marks as well and not passed them on!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

To put it more simply, only one of the parents can be blue, and any tabby parents have to carry non-agouti.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> It seems a simple question but the answer isn't quite as simple as there are a several genes involved


Actually the answer to the question 'Do the parents have to be a certain colour or can any cat produce black cats?' is actually simple.

The answer is that as long as one of the parents has a black gene, black offspring *can* result but only in certain circumstances.

That is the short answer and perhaps we should both have stuck to answering the original question because in my experience it is easy to create confusion by giving more information than is strictly necessary!


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Burmesemum said:


> @lorilu yes would love to see


These are from when she was a kitten. About 6 months old if I remember right. Her coat wasn't very nice yet, then, but you can see her Secret Stripes! When I posted them (a different forum) most people thought I was posting pics of two different cats. I assured them I had only one little black Hemingway kitten. : )

I love the white hairs in her tail here. those are gone now. boo hoo!























































And here's a more recent one (she's almost 6 now) showing her Secret White Crescent. It's a very sweet little spot but she is very stingy about showing it. She also has quite a few Angel Kisses (stray white hairs in her black fur)


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

This one shows her thumbs better, and a hint of that Secret White Crescent.. She has extra toes on one hind foot (left) also. It isn't noticible except when I am trimming her claws. This girlie is all about the Secrets!


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Sorry. I'll try to stop now. Hee hee


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

For goodness sakes I almost forgot!

Secret Rainbows in her fur









Secret Wings on her back:


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## Carzana (Oct 28, 2015)

lorilu said:


> My little black girl pretends to be a self but when the sun is shining on her just so.... I have seen her Secret Stripes. : )


I have a secret tabby too, shes black and white normally.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

@lorilu your girl is beautiful :Cat I love all of her little secrets


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

She is lovely @lorilu. I love her wings!


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

So - if I took Aelfred ( red and white) and took away his whitespotting gene, and then his red gene, and then his tabby gene, would he be black too?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Jonescat said:


> So - if I took Aelfred ( red and white) and took away his whitespotting gene, and then his red gene, and then his tabby gene, would he be black too?


*If* you could he is quite probably black. I think this impossible task is slightly less difficult than you imagine because it does not look as though he has a tabby gene! I expect you have three black cats..


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

He has rings on his tail 









But I may slowly be absorbing how colour genes work from all your patient explanations.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Jonescat said:


> He has rings on his tail
> But I may slowly be absorbing how colour genes work from all your patient explanations.


Bit more explanation? Because of the way the red gene works most red cats will have some tabby markings even if they do not have the agouti gene. The red gene just shows up the underlying tabby pattern that all cats have.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

QOTN said:


> Bit more explanation? Because of the way the red gene works most red cats will have some tabby markings even if they do not have the agouti gene. The red gene just shows up the underlying tabby pattern that all cats have.


I once had someone tell me there was "no such thing" as a "red gene" LOL! I believe you actually. I have always suspected my little black girl is a Red Cat in disguise. hee hee.


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## Burmesemum (Mar 7, 2015)

@lorilu oh isn't she lovely and so unusual! Thanks for showing me all the photos of her.

I was looking at the two boys today and they do have stripes. I wonder if their coat will change as they get older. If you just look at them normally they look very black but in a certain light you can see the stripes.

Thanks for all the interesting information about genes too it's fascinating stuff.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Burmesemum said:


> @lorilu oh isn't she lovely and so unusual! Thanks for showing me all the photos of her.
> 
> I was looking at the two boys today and they do have stripes. I wonder if their coat will change as they get older. If you just look at them normally they look very black but in a certain light you can see the stripes.
> 
> Thanks for all the interesting information about genes too it's fascinating stuff.


She's my first black cat, and a very special little girl. She's good at training me too. She's a Burrower, prefers to live under things when ever possible. Her coat didn't change color except to become lovely and full and glossy, she was in very poor condition when I rescued her. Her stripes are still there but rarely visible any more.


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Can't get enough of the black cat pics! *happy sigh*


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

ZoeM said:


> Can't get enough of the black cat pics! *happy sigh*


Alright here are three of mine, my current black girl, one of her daughters as a kitten and my QOTN born 1992. (Apologies to anybody who has already seen these pics.)


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

QOTN said:


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> ...


Don't apologise! I could look at your girls all day long!


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