# Neighbours update



## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

No offence, but what a**holes.


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm waiting on a call back from my landlord because I'm pretty worried, I want to get my point across to him before they can go ahead with their threat. I can honestly say Paisley has not been a problem to us, let alone them and I'm really hurt they would go that far just because they "don't like dogs" they don't even have a reason


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Isn't not liking dogs reason enough?

I can see their point of view; you share a space, you didn't inform them you were getting a dog; you are using the shared space for your dog to go to the toilet. Lots of people would have a problem with that. Its why many councils/landlords no longer allow dogs where there is a communal garden.

How they are dealing with it is potentially petty, but they have a right to be miffed imo.


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

sorry if you've already said but are you in private accommodation or council? and did you ask your landlord if you could have a dog before you got one? I'm worried this could be a big problem for you if your landlord turned round and said he/she doesn't want pets in there property. because they can evict you for it if your contract says no pets or you didn't ask your landlord first


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I thought you already had one dog and got a 2nd?


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

Muttly said:


> I thought you already had one dog and got a 2nd?


No?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

They have shown their true colours - good riddance! 

If you are allowed to have a dog, and your dog is not a problem then I wouldn't worry too much about it. 

With any luck your OH has said enough to get them off your back and the best thing now is to just ignore them and pretend they don't exist.

Paisley will soon be able to go for longer walks and you can avoid using the garden so much with her so less chance of future conflict.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

I am a very nice, people pleasing person. I hate confrontation and I rarely raise my voice, even when my next door neighbour tried to kick our door in, I still gave him the time of day and wanted to speak to him (My OH on the other hand didnt and rung the police right away). Anyway, as we have to share a semi house, I made an effort to smile and be polite and now I say Hi and wave to them and even had a little chat and the young man stroked Charlie. I would have done the EXACT same thing as you, even though I think you've been really kind so far, too kind for them in fact. But my OH would have reacted the same as yours as I probably would have cried too.

Just be civil and ensure your dog doesnt do anything to give them any reason to report you, so far it just sounds like they are being mean. Their loss.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

BigMomma said:


> I'm waiting on a call back from my landlord because I'm pretty worried, I want to get my point across to him before they can go ahead with their threat. I can honestly say Paisley has not been a problem to us, let alone them and I'm really hurt they would go that far just because they "don't like dogs" they don't even have a reason


Have you heard the saying don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you? If you already know you are allowed to have a dog by your landlord then I would leave well alone and wait and see. Chances are the neighbours won't actually report you - what do they have to report? If they do and the landlord contacts you above all else stay calm and polite and make clear that Paisley is not allowed in the garden unsupervised and that you clear up any poo immediately and that when she is a bit older she will be walked/toileted off site. If your OH gets angry with the neighbours who are elderly and not in the best of health that will not look good. Always keep the higher moral ground.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

BigMomma said:


> ALSO I'd like to mention the garden will not permanently be her toilet space. You're making me sound like the rude inconsiderate one, when all I do is try to help them and I've gone to these lengths to find out what's wrong with them.


Im sorry, but i think its only good manners to tell (tell, not ask) people that you share a space with that you are getting a dog. Had you done so, then this situation could have been avoided as they could have aired their views and concerns in advance, and you could have reassured them of the measures you are going to take to ensure the garden is clean, and no one is harassed or intimidated by *your *dog.

I dont see what you helping them out has to do with anything tbh. Thats your choice.


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## Apollo2012 (Jun 10, 2013)

BigMomma said:


> My landlord knows and is fine with it. It's in the agreement and I asked him prior to getting her.


Ahh I wouldn't worry about your landlord then, your neighbours are being rude and unless your pup is making a nuisance, barking all the time etc then I wouldn't worry too much. what do they think they are going to report you for and who to? they can't complain to the council about you having a dog when your not in a council property unless she's making excessive noise which from what you've said I doubt she is.

some people are just miserable gits


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

Poor you, you certainly don't deserve this!
If I were you I would:
a) make sure this incident and any further contact with your neighbours or any attempt to escalate the situation is diaried or somehow recorded so you have a clear, non - emotive record of events. Did you by any chance make a copy of your letter before posting?
b) check and double check your tenancy to make sure you have not contravened any small print. Good idea getting your first word in with the landlord.
c) have a quick word with any of your other neighbours to ensure that they have no objections to your dog and that there has not been some sort of nuisance factor you are perhaps unaware of and can nip in the bud.

Your neighbours sound like thoroughly unpleasant people but I am quite sure if they intended taking this further you would have heard something by now, it was probably an idle threat.
Aside from the above precautions I would just give them a very wide berth from now on and forget them, don't give them the power to spoil your happiness with your lovely dog!!


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

BigMomma said:


> You seriously feel like that's acceptable? Seriously? I am in no mood so if all you're going to do is tell me I'm in the wrong, don't comment on this thread anymore because I've posted for advice on what to do next. Not to be practically told I deserved that.


I don't see Nonnie siding with the neighbors, just explaining that not everyone likes dogs, and not liking dogs is reason enough to be miffed. How they handle being miffed is a totally separate issue.

I haven't kept up with your posts, so don't really know what's going on, but I do know that as dog owners we sometimes forget that not everyone thinks dogs are the bee's knees like we do. Nothing wrong with trying to see things from someone else's POV.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Oh sorry got the wrong end of the stick. 
Well I think it's a good move contacting your landlord, like you have done. Let us know what he/she says.
But yeah I agree that is a really horrible attitude and no need to be like that to your daughter, she isn't the one they are pissed off with!

I understand some people don't like dogs, but really? If he is not bothering them or being a nuisance. Live and let live ffs. 

I would now just totally ignore them and be the considerate dog owner you sound like you are. They may in the end change their views.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> Oh sorry got the wrong end of the stick.
> Well I think it's a good move contacting your landlord, like you have done. Let us know what he/she says.
> But yeah I agree that is a really horrible attitude and no need to be like that to your daughter, she isn't the one they are pissed off with!
> 
> ...


Not sure if you read the other thread but these are elderly neighbours - the husband has been in ill health (several strokes I believe the OP said) and the garden is shared with them. I would imagine if you don't like dogs (which many people don't) and a neighbour who you are on good terms with suddenly gets a german shepherd puppy (who lots of people will be afraid of) without mentioning it or offering you any reassurance then it might upset/worry you. The neighbour is no doubt worried that when hanging out her washing in the garden she is going to be knocked over or worse. When you have to share communal space its not so straightforward.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

BigMomma said:


> My landlord knows and is fine with it. It's in the agreement and I asked him prior to getting her.


I missed this bit! (sorry I really need to concentrate  ) in that case, it has nothing to do with them, so my attitude would be 'sod off' :Finger


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Not sure if you read the other thread but these are elderly neighbours - the husband has been in ill health (several strokes I believe the OP said) and the garden is shared with them. I would imagine if you don't like dogs (which many people don't) and a neighbour who you are on good terms with suddenly gets a german shepherd puppy (who lots of people will be afraid of) without mentioning it or offering you any reassurance then it might upset/worry you. The neighbour is no doubt worried that when hanging out her washing in the garden she is going to be knocked over or worse. When you have to share communal space its not so straightforward.


I didn't see that bit either no. Thanks. But If that is the case, then the perhaps the landlord shouldn't allow dogs in the communal areas.


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

BigMomma said:


> Can I just make it very clear that I DO 100% see their point of view, it was wrong of me as we share a space not to let them know before we got her. I know that. But, taking into consideration the relationship we've had before now, I honestly didn't see them having any kind of problem, and in the letter I sent them I apologised profusely for not letting them know beforehand, so I don't see why they felt it acceptable this morning to lay into me like they did, at all.


You confronted them. Emotions are probably running high.

Perhaps if you had just left them alone, it would have blown over.

All they have done is ignore you. In the grand scheme of things, thats nothing.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Any chance the landlord would agree to some sort of temporary fencing to keep paisley away from next door? It might reassure the neighbours if they know that there is no chance she will get near them.
Sounds like the neighbours are being very immature (cant see why they didnt just post a letter back to you explaining that they wanted nowt more to do with you rather then just ignoring the situation!). I would ignore them from now on, and check your garden for suspicious 'treats'!
The devils advocate in me wonders though if maybe Paisley was just the straw on the camels back....after all they did say that you were being over friendly. Its very hard to tell someone they are being too friendly without looking like a dick yourself!


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## MyAnimals (Aug 14, 2014)

Sorry but I'm another that would be a bit miffed if I shared a garden with my neighbour and they got a dog without even mentioning it (and I am a dog lover). That said I wouldn't have reacted as they did. It seems funny that if you had such a good relationship with them I would have thought it'd come up in conversation as judging by your other threads you had put a lot of thought into getting a dog. 

All you can do is keep Paisley out of trouble and out of their way and hopefully you can get on better terms with them. 

Not what you want to hear, sorry.


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Nonnie said:


> Im sorry, but i think its only good manners to tell (tell, not ask) people that you share a space with that you are getting a dog. Had you done so, then this situation could have been avoided as they could have aired their views and concerns in advance, and you could have reassured them of the measures you are going to take to ensure the garden is clean, and no one is harassed or intimidated by *your *dog.
> 
> I dont see what you helping them out has to do with anything tbh. Thats your choice.


But what if they had said "don't get a dog - we don't like them"? At the end of the day, the OP has the permission of the landlord and is taking reasonable steps not to allow her dog to be a nuisance. End of, as far as I'm concerned.

The neighbours are being childish in the first place, by just blanking the OP even though they were happy to accept her help/friendship in the past. They sound like the unreasonable party here, to me. Either way, the OP has a dog and is not going to get rid of it - so the neighbours will never be entirely happy. Tough!

I have neighbours around me that do things that I don't like, but they aren't breaking any rules or laws so I just have to suck it up 

Live and let live


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Well said LL


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

BigMomma said:


> I went out with my daughters following me to ask if they wanted any help





BigMomma said:


> I confronted them because of the way they spoke to my five year old daughter.


You went out to 'help'. They obviously didnt want any, and i think its rude to impose yourself where you are clearly not wanted. THEN you go and confront them.

Why dont you just leave them alone?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> I didn't see that bit either no. Thanks. But If that is the case, then the perhaps the landlord shouldn't allow dogs in the communal areas.


I believe quite a few do have rules like that.

I'm not saying the neighbours are right to behave the way they are but I do think people should cut them a bit of slack, we will all be old one day and feel more vulnerable so what might seem like making a mountain out of a molehill to us may seem like a real cause for concern to them. I know if it were my Mum who is very anxious about dogs especially big ones she would be going over and over in her mind all the possible situations where she might be out in the garden on her own and the dog when fully grown comes bounding up to her. She would be terrified and worrying about it would no doubt make her ill. We do also need to remember this is a guarding breed so that will no doubt add to their concerns.


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

BigMomma said:


> I get that completely. I've mentioned that I understand that plenty of times, I've also told them I understand that and have done my best to reassure them that Paisley is not going to be "that dog". I know I was wrong not to mention it beforehand. But it's done, and I've apologised. I don't know what else I can do after trying all I've done to rectify the situation.


Leave it alone.

As much as you interacted before, it seems like it would have been easy to mention the dog. Not saying you needed to ask them permission, but not even mentioning something as exciting as getting a puppy just seems odd.

But what's done is done, you made an attempt to make amends, how they respond to that is out of your control, so leave it alone. Take care of your dog, be a responsible owner, and walk away from more drama.

Just looking over your posts trying to get a feel for what's going on, this saying popped in my head:
"Drama does not just walk in to your life. Either you create it, invite it, or associate with it."


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> But what if they had said "don't get a dog - we don't like them"? At the end of the day, the OP has the permission of the landlord and is taking reasonable steps not to allow her dog to be a nuisance. End of, as far as I'm concerned.


It doesnt matter what they would have said, if dogs are allowed, dogs are allowed. But it would have been polite and good manners to inform them of the situation.

Communication is such a simple thing. It leads to discussion.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Not sure if you read the other thread but these are elderly neighbours - the husband has been in ill health (several strokes I believe the OP said) and the garden is shared with them. I would imagine if you don't like dogs (which many people don't) and a neighbour who you are on good terms with suddenly gets a german shepherd puppy (who lots of people will be afraid of) without mentioning it or offering you any reassurance then it might upset/worry you. The neighbour is no doubt worried that when hanging out her washing in the garden she is going to be knocked over or worse. When you have to share communal space its not so straightforward.


But, don't trouble trouble, til trouble troubles you applies here surely?

There has been no problem with the dog as of yet, no fouling, no noise, no knocking neighbours over, etc. Why couldn't the neighbours have just given the OP the benefit of the doubt and only been miffed, when they actually had a reason?


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Nonnie said:


> It doesnt matter what they would have said, if dogs are allowed, dogs are allowed. But it would have been polite and good manners to inform them of the situation.
> 
> Communication is such a simple thing. It leads to discussion.


Just as it would have been polite and good manners for the neighbours to have spoken to the OP and expressed their concerns like adults, given that she has been extremely kind and helpful to them and they were all on good terms, apparently. Goes both ways. If they had, the OP could have reassured them.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Lurcherlad said:


> But, don't trouble trouble, til trouble troubles you applies here surely?
> 
> There has been no problem with the dog as of yet, no fouling, no noise, no knocking neighbours over, etc. Why couldn't the neighbours have just given the OP the benefit of the doubt and only been miffed, when they actually had a reason?


Because they have to share the garden. Because they probably expected the OP to at least mention it to them. Because its a german shepherd (one from working lines that the OP hopes to do IPO work with - not that they know that - just saying) and because they are elderly and not in the best of health so no doubt worry a little more than most.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Crikey I hate neighbours. We all leave each other alone in our corner of 4 lol. Just a Christmas card and a hello. Perfect.
Maybe this is the best way after all.


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## karmacookie (Nov 9, 2014)

_"Drama does not just walk in to your life. Either you create it, invite it, or associate with it."_

I don't know where that saying comes from but it is utter rubbish!


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I'm not saying the neighbours are right to behave the way they are but I do think people should cut them a bit of slack, we will all be old one day and feel more vulnerable so what might seem like making a mountain out of a molehill to us may seem like a real cause for concern to them. I know if it were my Mum who is very anxious about dogs especially big ones she would be going over and over in her mind all the possible situations where she might be out in the garden on her own and the dog when fully grown comes bounding up to her. She would be terrified and worrying about it would no doubt make her ill. We do also need to remember this is a guarding breed so that will no doubt add to their concerns.


I have to agree with this. My mum is terrified of dogs bigger than McKenzie. If she were to come home one day and find a large breed puppy, and a GSD at that, in her garden she would not be a happy bunny! I understand that at the end of the day you are 'allowed' the dog, but a heads up and some time to come to grips with the idea would have gone a long way.

Surely, OP, with all the research and consideration you did prior to getting your dog, the fact that you need to be considerate of your neighbours occurred to you?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> Just as it would have been polite and good manners for the neighbours to have spoken to the OP and expressed their concerns like adults, given that she has been extremely kind and helpful to them and they were all on good terms, apparently. Goes both ways. If they had, the OP could have reassured them.


Yes, i think both parties are being childish and petty and blowing the whole thing out of proportion due to the inability to talk like mature, responsible adults.

Seems it much easier these days to bitch and moan behind closed doors.


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I believe quite a few do have rules like that.
> 
> I'm not saying the neighbours are right to behave the way they are but I do think people should cut them a bit of slack, we will all be old one day and feel more vulnerable so what might seem like making a mountain out of a molehill to us may seem like a real cause for concern to them. I know if it were my Mum who is very anxious about dogs especially big ones she would be going over and over in her mind all the possible situations where she might be out in the garden on her own and the dog when fully grown comes bounding up to her. She would be terrified and worrying about it would no doubt make her ill. We do also need to remember this is a guarding breed so that will no doubt add to their concerns.


Yup, a little empathy goes a long way. And let's not forget, we're only hearing one side of the story


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I would expect there to be a clause in this agreement of allowing dogs, that they must be on a lead in communal areas? Which I expect OP will be doing anyway. So what's the problem? And what business is it of the neighbours?


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

ouesi said:


> "Drama does not just walk in to your life. Either you create it, invite it, or associate with it."





karmacookie said:


> _"Drama does not just walk in to your life. Either you create it, invite it, or associate with it."_
> 
> I don't know where that saying comes from but it is utter rubbish!


I think it's pretty accurate actually!


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

karmacookie said:


> _"Drama does not just walk in to your life. Either you create it, invite it, or associate with it."_
> 
> I don't know where that saying comes from but it is utter rubbish!


Not at all rubbish in my experience 
But it you prefer, I also like "not my circus, not my monkeys" 

In any case, reading through this thread, I can totally see how the OP seems to have so many dramas


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

I fail to see how this could possibly resulted in me being insulted also.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Nonnie said:


> Yes, i think both parties are being childish and petty and blowing the whole thing out of proportion due to the inability to talk like mature, responsible adults.
> 
> Seems it much easier these days to bitch and moan behind closed doors.


Sometimes it's good to vent - it's a bit like therapy! 

Unless the neighbour is a member of this forum, then no harm done, surely?


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## karmacookie (Nov 9, 2014)

McKenzie said:


> I think it's pretty accurate actually!


remind me never to moan about my woes on this forum then!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Muttly said:


> I would expect there to be a clause in this agreement of allowing dogs, that they must be on a lead in communal areas? Which I expect OP will be doing anyway. So what's the problem? And what business is it of the neighbours?


Because they are sharing a space, and will come in to contact, or near enough, with a dog that is not theirs and they clearly dont like.

Of course its their business.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

There maybe some truth in that saying. I don't talk to any of my neighbours in the 4 years I've lived here and had no drama from them. 
Not saying OP created drama, but sometimes just knowing and talking to people seems to raise drama.

Stories like this just remind me why I tend to keep myself to myself.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Nonnie said:


> Because they are sharing a space, and will come in to contact, or near enough, with a dog that is not theirs and they clearly dont like.
> 
> Of course its their business.


So do they on a lot of streets they walk and parks they may sit etc etc.....


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Lurcherlad said:


> Sometimes it's good to vent - it's a bit like therapy!
> 
> Unless the neighbour is a member of this forum, then no harm done, surely?


Nope its fun to read an OTT soapbox rant.

Makes one realise why society is the way it is.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Muttly said:


> So do they on a lot of streets they walk and parks they may sit etc etc.....


Completely different to your own home and semi-private space now isnt it?


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

What's IPO?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

BigMomma said:


> Ok while I have been listening to your opinion, please tell me what the hell IPO has anything to do with this? No the neighbours don't know that and don't need to. What you think I'll let her ravage them do you? What when I've already mentioned she will never be out there without a lead? Stop picking holes


Now see this is where you show your true colours. You have a temper and you let it fly every so often. I have not been rude to you I was answering a question asked of me by another member who may not know that your GSD is from working lines and that you want to do IPO with her. I've owned german shepherds or rotties for over 30 years now so believe it or not I do know a thing or two about other peoples perceptions of them. Of course I don't think you are going to let her savage them but perhaps they either don't know that or don't have faith that you will indeed never allow her in the shared space unsupervised. I'm not picking holes I'm putting the other side of the story. Sorry if you don't want to hear other peoples views but that is exactly what you will hear on a forum.


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Lurcherlad said:


> What's IPO?


http://www.landheimk9.com/static.asp?path=3454


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

Lurcherlad said:


> Sometimes it's good to vent - it's a bit like therapy!
> 
> Unless the neighbour is a member of this forum, then no harm done, surely?


Venting is fine, just don't expect everyone to agree with your righteous indignation


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Nonnie said:


> Completely different to your own home and semi-private space now isnt it?


No not really. For the reason I have not rented houses because they have communal areas, I think they are the same as going to the park!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

BigMomma said:


> Wow what is your problem honestly? I was letting people on here know what happened next. If you don't like it then don't read it? Not my problem?


Problem?

I thought this was a discussion forum, not Facebook.

I was giving my views on the situation. I feel nothing either way. Apart from amused. Hmmm, is amused a feeling?


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Now see this is where you show your true colours. You have a temper and you let it fly every so often. I have not been rude to you I was answering a question asked of me by another member who may not know that your GSD is from working lines and that you want to do IPO with her. I've owned german shepherds or rotties for over 30 years now so believe it or not I do know a thing or two about other peoples perceptions of them. Of course I don't think you are going to let her savage them but perhaps they either don't know that or don't have faith that you will indeed never allow her in the shared space unsupervised. I'm not picking holes I'm putting the other side of the story. Sorry if you don't want to hear other peoples views but that is exactly what you will hear on a forum.


And it's not like I've not tried to reassure them she won't be in the garden alone.


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

Nonnie said:


> Problem?
> 
> I thought this was a discussion forum, not Facebook.
> 
> I was giving my views on the situation. I feel nothing either way. Apart from amused. Hmmm, is amused a feeling?


If it is, I feel ya


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

BigMomma said:


> Wow what is your problem honestly? I was letting people on here know what happened next. If you don't like it then don't read it? Not my problem?


This is an open forum. If you choose to post, you're choosing to open yourself up to comments. And it's almost unheard of that we all agree on anything! If comments that don't fit your point of view bother you, then it's best that you consider that before you post.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I had no idea, but found this para:

*The Protection Phase* tests the dog's courage, physical strength and agility. The handler's control for the dog is absolutely essential. The exercises include a search of hiding places, finding a hidden person (acting as a human decoy), and guarding that decoy while the handler approaches. The dog is expected to pursue the decoy when an escape is attempted and to hold the grip firmly. The decoy is searched and transported to the judge with the handler and dog walking behind and later at the decoy's right side. When the decoy attempts to attack the handler, the dog is expected to stop the attack with a firm grip and no hesitation.
The final test of courage occurs when the decoy is asked to come out of a hiding place by the judge from the opposite end of the trial field. The dog is sent after the decoy when he refuses to listen to the handler's command to stop. The decoy then runs directly at the dog threatening the dog with a stick. All grips during the protection phase are expected to be firmly placed on the padded sleeve and stopped on command and or when the decoy discontinues the fight. The protection tests are intended to assure that the dog is neither a coward nor a criminal menace.

Hopefully, the dog will be better trained than most of the mutts that I meet out on a normal walk 

Also, so long as the neighbours don't run around wearing a decoy suit and brandishing a stick, they should be safe! :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

My attitude would be a big "fine f*ck you then" I'm afraid. I have no time for people who are going to behave in such a petty manner because they don't approve of me having a pet they don't like. I wouldn't go out of my way to annoy them or anything like that, I'd just ignore them back and go about my business while making sure my dog wasn't a nuisance. Which any responsible owner would do anyway.

I'm not going to ask my neighbours for permission to have a dog I'm afraid. Not when I am 100% sure that I am allowed a dog, communal garden or not! There's being considerate and there's taking it to extremes imo. If my neighbours had a problem with the dog toileting in the garden I'd take him elsewhere because I can fully understand that being an issue. But I'm not going so far as to let my neighbours decide whether or not I'm allowed my pet of choice! Not when we've specifically looked for somewhere that does allow dogs.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

I think the best thing to do now is just leave it alone. They have made it clear they do not want any further contact with you so that is that.

If you had a close relationship with them and you failed to tell them you were getting a German Shepherd in your shared space, then yes it is understandable why they are a bit upset. There is no excuse for abusive language but tensions are probably running high. As others have mentioned, they are probably worried about coming face to face with the dog in the future, particularly as you have chosen a working type guarding breed that will no doubt display the associated breed traits. You have young children so it is difficult to guarantee that the dog will never get out - kids being kids will leave doors open etc.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

This is how I treated previous neighbours; just ignored them. I had a note on my car just before Christmas last year asking me to park in front of a particular house "to help your neighbours" apparently. Since this is a public road I just ignored them and kept parking where I wanted to. I knew which neighbour's house it was and the people who live in there don't even say 'hello' or anything when I see them so I just ignore them and we have no confrontations. My neighbour at the back of our terraces is fortunately very nice and we talked the other day about the cats and how I was rehoming one.


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

Oh wow, despite the arguments on here I have to post, they've just had someone come round to cut and rake the grass, he's only cut and raked their half and left mine. Hahahaha. that has made me laugh.


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

@BigMomma, you have a GSD from working lines that you're planning on doing IPO with?

My advice (and yes, I know, you didn't ask for it, but I'm gonna offer it anyway ). 
1) Grow a nice thick skin.
2) Work on your temper/reactivity. Not helpful in general, but definitely not something you want to share with your new puppy.
3) Realize that like it or not, you are now a representative of large powerful dogs. Be an advocate for these dogs and their owners. Represent yourself with dignity and respect and if nothing else, learn to walk away and leave well enough alone.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

BigMomma said:


> Oh wow, despite the arguments on here I have to post, they've just had someone come round to cut and rake the grass, he's only cut and raked their half and left mine. Hahahaha. that has made me laugh.


Is there anyway of being allowed to erect a fence between the two halves?


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Unfortunately this is why having a dog in a communal living space doesn't always work well. Especially a breed that many people are afraid of. My mum is NOT a fan of large breed dogs. She was scared of Cash when I bought him home for at least a good couple of weeks and refused to enter my house! It was only during one visit on neutral territory did she feel she bonded with him, and these days she's in love with him! But that doesn't extend to other dogs, and I think she'd have an issue with a GSD sharing a garden. Actually, there has been times during training visits myself where she has driven me and waited where she refuses to open her windows or car doors incase one of the trainer's dogs runs up to the car.

Where I lived previous to now I had a communal garden and had no such issues, but then again, I was probably the most responsible dog owner in my block.....

But seriously, they threatened to hit your daughter and you didn't phone the police? There is being upset about you and your decision to get a puppy, but resorting to threats is not on IMO regardless of your age or situation.

Just ignore them now and have no more to do with them.


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## karmacookie (Nov 9, 2014)

BigMomma said:


> Oh wow, despite the arguments on here I have to post, they've just had someone come round to cut and rake the grass, he's only cut and raked their half and left mine. Hahahaha. that has made me laugh.


that's good then, you cut and rake your side and keep to your side and then I can't see a problem. that's exactly what I did in a similar situation


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

Dogloverlou said:


> But seriously, they threatened to hit your daughter and you didn't phone the police? There is being upset about you and your decision to get a puppy, but resorting to threats is not on IMO regardless of your age or situation.


I think they were referring to the furniture they were carrying hitting the child if she got in the way.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Dogloverlou said:


> Unfortunately this is why having a dog in a communal living space doesn't always work well. Especially a breed that many people are afraid of. My mum is NOT a fan of large breed dogs. She was scared of Cash when I bought him home for at least a good couple of weeks and refused to enter my house! It was only during one visit on neutral territory did she feel she bonded with him, and these days she's in love with him! But that doesn't extend to other dogs, and I think she'd have an issue with a GSD sharing a garden. Actually, there has been times during training visits myself where she has driven me and waited where she refuses to open her windows or car doors incase one of the trainer's dogs runs up to the car.
> 
> Where I lived previous to now I had a communal garden and had no such issues, but then again, I was probably the most responsible dog owner in my block.....
> 
> ...


I think they may have meant the child may get hit because they were moving furniture out of the door I don't think they were making a threat to hit the child though


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

dogsaintdumb said:


> I think they were referring to the furniture they were carrying hitting the child if she got in the way.


Ah, ok, that's a relief to hear rather than them threatening to hit her!


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

dogsaintdumb said:


> I think they were referring to the furniture they were carrying hitting the child if she got in the way.


sorry typed that at the same time as you


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

BigMomma said:


> No need to be sorry. I've said I understand why they are frustrated


Although you probably do now realise why they're upset, I'm sensing that you don't fully appreciate how much it has upset them or quite why it is such a big deal.
It comes across to me as 'well I've apologised and now it can all go back the way it was'
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. You now need to give them time to calm down and get used to the idea that their little space is never quite going to be the same again.
I really don't think their behaviour is at all appropriate (esp towards your little girl) but over-reacting yourself isn't going to help anyone. What's done is done, now leave it alone and just make sure they don't have any just reasons for complaining about your pup.


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

This is going to get harder and harder.
A GSD, especially a working lines one, which imo lack the filter on reacting that the other lines have, I have no doubt it will prove impossible for this situation to work out in the long run.

The closer she gets to maturity the more she will pick up on every single emotion at play here. The old couples fear will set her off, their hostility will set her off, your anxiety stress tension will set her off at the target of your feelings. All in a shared space of entrance/exit? 

Insanity. Her barking at them is in my mind impossible to avoid without their help and a large GSD barking at elderly people will soon lead to very serious complaints under the dangerous dog act.


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

Big Momma, is it just the two households that share the garden?


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

*All* neighbours have to be accommodating of each other. While I would have let my immediate neighbours know if I was bringing a new type of animal into my home, I certainly wouldn't have changed my mind about getting the animal had they shown their dislike of the idea. Likewise, if one of my neighbours brings an animal into their home which I don't particularly like, whether they warned me beforehand or not, I wouldn't have expected them to change their mind about the addition and I certainly wouldn't have turned the situation into a nasty one.

It's good manners to let neighbours know about an animal you're going to be having as a pet, but it's also good manners not to be an a*shole when you don't like something your neighbours have done. IDGAF how entitled you think you are to dictate what goes on in somebody else's life. If Paisley doesn't cause the neighbours trouble then what is the problem...

If they don't like dogs then I don't see how BigMomma alerting them to the fact that she was bringing Paisley home would have made a difference to their attitude. It would have just started the conflict sooner unless she took their feelings to heart and decided against getting a dog in order to please her neighbours.

I live in a very farm-y village and a newish neighbour three doors down from me has been complaining since she got here about my cockerel waking her at 5am every morning (in the winter, too...) despite the fact all of my poultry are shut away in dark nest boxes between 9pm and 7am, so don't make a noise until at least 7am. There are four other houses in the village that have chickens and other noisy poultry, plus there is a field right behind both of our houses that in filled with sheep and sometimes a donkey.

I've had inspectors come to my door countless times and each time they tell me that my animals aren't disturbing the peace. One even came before I'd even let the chickens out of their next boxes one morning. I was cockerel-less for 6 months and the neighbour still complained about my cockerel crowing at 5am. I used to try to make her life a little easier and would go around and speak with her, try to explain the set up, tell her how cockerels work and that they don't commonly crow when it's dark, invited her around to mine to meet them, let her know that pheasants nest in the field and that they are pretty loud...All while avoiding mentioning that her dog is shut in the house all day and barks the entire time, her kids move lawn furniture from neighbours' gardens and place it in the middle of the lane, her kids have long-a*s parties most weekends when I have to get up for work in the morning as some people work weekends as well as week days...

After she continued to stick handwritten letters of complaint onto my car during the 6 months that I had no cockerel, I wrote a letter back that I found hilarious. She must've found it so funny that she died laughing because I haven't had another letter stuck on my car in months. AND I have a cockerel now.  You can't please some neighbours. What did mine expect when she moved to a village made up of very farm-y people? Likewise what did BigMomma's neighbours expect when they moved into close accommodation.

I would have alerted the neighbour to the fact I was bringing a dog home as it's polite, but if they simply don't like dogs then their reaction would have been the same.

BigMomma, if you're allowed to have Paisley and she's not being allowed to cause preventable trouble with your neighbours or anybody else, then don't worry about what's happened. Continue on with your life and take ouesi's advice. Thick skin and tolerance will get you far.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

labradrk said:


> If you had a close relationship with them and you failed to tell them you were getting a German Shepherd in your shared space, then yes it is understandable why they are a bit upset.


TBF I dont think they did have a close relationship at all....otherwise they would have known about the puppy before it was brought home. (I know I told everybody when I was waiting to pick up a new puppy!).
Its not something the neighbours are likely to just get over either if they have deep seated fears or anxieties around dogs. Sounds like those bridges are well and truly burned!


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## Sarahliz100 (Jan 5, 2014)

In the OPs position I would also be quite upset. It seems that she has really made an effort in the past to be a really helpful neighbour. Who knows what the "too friendly" comment from the neighbours is about - probably just a cheap shot because they're annoyed, but even if they did genuinely find her efforts to help stifling her heart was in the right place. It's horrible to have what you think is a nice relationship fall apart, and the prospect of daily confrontation/unpleasantness (and being pointedly ignored/blanked can be pretty unpleasant) must be horrible.

With regards to the neighbours - yes they perhaps have a right to be annoyed they weren't informed the dog was coming, but the way they've expressed this does seem thoroughly unpleasant to me. At the end of the day if the OP had told them it seems they may well have been completely against the idea in which case she would potentially have been in a really difficult position too - does she then not get the dog which really she is perfectly entitled to get to keep them happy, or does she go against their clearly expressed wishes and thus thoroughly upset them? 

My advice to the OP:
- Accept your neighbours are not the people you thought they were. They're not worthy of your friendship so stop trying to extend it too them. It's their loss. Be polite - smile, say good morning, make sure your actions don't cause them problems but don't actually go out of your way to find ways to help them seeing as it doesn't actually seem appreciated. It's their loss not yours.

- If your landlord knew you were getting a dog and your contract says as much then I don't see you have much to worry about if Paisley is as well behaved/trained as you say. Have a think about whether you have other neighbours who would be able to vouch for the fact she doesn't cause excessive noise/disruption who might be willing to speak in your favour if the landlord does get cold feet about it (is he the awkward neighbours landlord too?).

- You know your neighbours don't like dogs so do everything you possibly can to minimise their exposure to her. As soon as is practicable have her toileting on walks rather than in the garden (many of us don't have gardens and just take the dog out several times a day). If she is quiet and not in the garden then really they don't have anything to complain about. There are several people in our terrace with dogs (me included) and if it wasn't for occasionally seeing them come out of the front doors to walk you honestly wouldn't know there are any - there really isn't any barking etc. Perhaps I'm very lucky but this is how I think it should be - I have the right to have a dog, but my neighbours have the right not to be inconvenienced by him in any way.

- You sound motivated to train etc so go to town on it. Sign up for classes. Get the good citizen awards. Do whatever advanced training turns you on. Then if in the future they start complaining about some sort of bad behaviour you can be like "really? My dog with the gold good citizen award? The one who's a PAT dog/agility dog/obedience dog......?"


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

dogsaintdumb said:


> If they don't like dogs then I don't see how BigMama alerting them to the fact that she was bringing Paisley home would have made a difference to their attitude. It would have just started the conflict sooner unless she took their feelings to heart and decided against getting a dog in order to please her neighbours.


Who knows...

I agree that BigMomma didn't need to ask them permission, but perhaps in mentioning it first and hearing that they were very worried about it, they could have had a conversation about how to make it work. Something along the lines of "what in particular are you nervous about and what can I do (within reason) to assuage those nerves?" For example if the worry is being knocked over, a simple assurance that the dog will be kept on a leash might help.

Many conflicts like this come from one side not feeling "heard". Sometimes simply validating the other person is enough to soothe things over. For example: "Oh, you're afraid of getting knocked over? Yes, I totally understand why that would be a worry with a big dog who's going to be a big puppy. I completely understand why you would feel nervous." And then once you have acknowledged the others' feelings, add in the reassurance. "I'll make sure to always keep her on a leash. I don't want her making anyone nervous, but especially not you." Sometimes assurances carry more weight if the person believes you understand where their fear comes from.

Obviously all this is assuming the neighbors are acting this way because of legitimate fears etc., not just being general dipshits. If they're just being dipshits, then "leave it" is not just a good trick to teach the dog if you know what I mean  But again, have to emphasize, we're only getting one version of events, so who knows what the deal is really.

IDK, I'm not very understanding of neighbor issues because we've never had any. At our last home our nearest neighbors were right on top of us, but they were awesome. Our current nearest neighbors have 20 acres of land between us. The next one is 70 acres away. We're out in the boonies and the general feeling out here in isolation is that we have to take care of each other. And we do. We watch out for each other, text each other if something is up, have keys and access to each others homes, know each others animals, and basically are, well, neighborly.


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

kare said:


> This is going to get harder and harder.
> A GSD, especially a working lines one, which imo lack the filter on reacting that the other lines have, I have no doubt it will prove impossible for this situation to work out in the long run.
> 
> The closer she gets to maturity the more she will pick up on every single emotion at play here. The old couples fear will set her off, their hostility will set her off, your anxiety stress tension will set her off at the target of your feelings. All in a shared space of entrance/exit?
> ...


Thanks for your positivity! I really do not think at all that it will come to that.
I will work with her and teach her what's right and what's not, not for the sake of the neighbours after how they've acted but because I want her to be a good dog, and I want her to have a wonderful life. I cannot and will not excuse the occasional barking session as she grows, she's a dog. As long as she's not barking directly at anyone, I don't see the problem. What she does when I have to go out or am not there is not in my control but I have been leaving her little and often since we brought her home, therefore after waiting outside our flat for a long amount of time as it stands she does not bark or howl or whine because I have made it second nature for her to be left sometimes. She is not even 12 weeks old yet, there is much to be worked on and I am prepared for this.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I am assuming there are no other dogs that share the communal garden. I can imagine the elderly people feeling like their summer days are not going to be the same. I would imagine they have been used to sitting out there enjoying the sunshine, maybe doing a spot of gardening etc (I am making assumptions) and now they perhaps feel like they will have to put up with a noisy dog (not saying the OP's dog in particular is noisy but dogs do bark and whine, and GSD's in particular can be vocal), the urine burn marks on the lawn, the possibility of flies being attracted to any residual poo being left behind etc and the thought they may not be 100% safe.

My neighbour doesnt like dogs, in fact if she hears me out in the garden with them in summer she'll let out a big huff, go inside and lock the door. It's not a communal garden though so thats my neighbours problem as far as i'm concerned. I have to put up with her grandkids squealing...

Anyhow, I can see why the elderly neighbours are upset but they have handled it poorly and if the OP has permission for a dog then there isnt much they can do about it. Might have been the decent thing to warn them before getting a puppy though.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

*The OP knows she should maybe have let them know she was getting a puppy they said *don't like dogs* they did not say why or say we are scared of big dogs just they don't like dogs so maybe it would be the same if the OP got a little dog who knows The least they could have done is explain why they don't like dogs not just start swearing and cussing at the OP to me even if they are scared and ill and old that was bang out of order sorry that's the way I feel My next door neighbour has a BC and she just bought another puppy same breed why would she need to ask me if it was ok if she got another dog I did not know the dog was there until she knocked and said the puppy has escaped into the field at the back of our gardens my hubby and I just went to the field with her and found the dog little monkey had found a tiny gap in the hedge and wriggled through it as others have said had the OP said oh I am getting a puppy and they said we don't like dogs then she would have felt even more guilty thinking should I now get this puppy or not OP between a rock and a hard place either way *


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## kare (Sep 8, 2014)

BigMomma said:


> Thanks for your positivity! I really do not think at all that it will come to that.
> I will work with her and teach her what's right and what's not, not for the sake of the neighbours after how they've acted but because I want her to be a good dog, and I want her to have a wonderful life. I cannot and will not excuse the occasional barking session as she grows, she's a dog. As long as she's not barking directly at anyone, I don't see the problem. What she does when I have to go out or am not there is not in my control but I have been leaving her little and often since we brought her home, therefore after waiting outside our flat for a long amount of time as it stands she does not bark or howl or whine because I have made it second nature for her to be left sometimes. She is not even 12 weeks old yet, there is much to be worked on and I am prepared for this.


My point is to ask a German Shepherd to not bark at people she doesn't know on property she sees as her own is asking her not to be a German Shepherd.
Asking her to not be vocal in a situation where there is so much feeling is asking her not to be the breed you chose!

How do you plan to socialise your dog how to act towards someone who hates her? How do you set up practise situations for her to experience and learn to do this on her own pathway in and out of her property?

Even without all that has happened I'm sorry I believe you made a very odd decision of breed for a shared property.
German shepherds are my breed, but there have been situations where they were the wrong breed and getting a retriever or some other less protective and more relaxed breed was the appropriate thing to do, for both me and any new dog.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

People are nobs at times, but they don't have to like your dog. Or your kids for that matter.

Courtesy and politeness will be your best option here. Don't help them out anymore, say your mornings or whatever as normal, but leave it as that.


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## Dobermutt (Jan 22, 2014)

OP, I think I know exactly how you feel.

Since having Harley, I've moved two times [not because of him, just because of the timing] and my first neighbour did exactly what your current neighbours are doing. We lived in semi-detached houses and her daughter had just gotten a Golden Retriever puppy and she was always dog-sitting for her friends, so I didn't think there'd be a problem at all. Well, as soon as she saw me with the puppy, I was completely blanked - never heard a word from her, unless the dog wasn't with me. I never actually found out why she was blanking me but didn't push the matter, just to keep the peace. It was a little bit upsetting, but I think the best thing to do is try your best not to take it to heart [as difficult as that may be, especially when there was previously no problems between you].

During the moving process, I went to stay with my dad for a little while and this situation is probably more similar to yours because he lives in a flat [only 4 flats in the building; one beside, two downstairs] and behind the flats is a large communal garden area. Everyone in the building was happy with the puppy being there, he was quiet and was old enough for walks but the people downstairs were upset from the very beginning. I, like you, tried my best to reassure them that I'd make sure he'd be no problem at all but they always found reasons to complain. They started shouting and swearing at me for walking down the stairs too early in the morning [about 9am!] and too late at night [about 6pm!] - this lead to me tiptoeing my way down the stairs at ridiculous times, or having to wait for them to go out just purely out of fear of a confrontation. They even used to lock the main door [knowing I didn't have a spare key] so that I couldn't get back in when I'd gone out. The whole situation really stressed me out and I started getting scared to go outside due to fear of being shouted at - it really was hell living in such close proximity to somebody who disapproved of my dog and you begin to feel guilty [at least, I did]. I now go to visit my dad regularly, and whilst the neighbours aren't keen on Harley, they always say hello and make conversation with me, and have apologized for the way they behaved in the past.

Whilst I can understand the neighbours point of view, entirely [I'm actually rather nervous of my next-door neighbours new rescue dog - after he launched himself over a 4ft fence into our garden!] it's completely unfair for you to be made to feel uncomfortable in your own home - especially when you're living in such close proximity with those neighbours and you have every right to have a dog. Nobody wants conflict right on their doorstep. Whether it's a shared space or not, you shouldn't be made to feel guilty for making a decision which is entirely yours to make.

If they don't like dogs, personally I wouldn't push the matter any further as it may only make things worse - not to mention, it probably isn't worth it. You, nor your dog have done anything wrong and that's all that matters. If it were me, I'd do my best just to stay out of their way and let them stay out of mine. It's probably much better to just ignore them entirely as opposed to getting into conflicts whenever you cross paths.

Chances probably are, that once they see you're sticking to your word and realise the dog isn't going to be a nuisance, things will probably calm down. People often jump to conclusions and they're maybe concerned about their peace being upset but I'm sure things will settle down if you just give each other some space and time to cool off. Hope it all gets sorted


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

kare said:


> My point is to ask a German Shepherd to not bark at people she doesn't know on property she sees as her own is asking her not to be a German Shepherd.
> Asking her to not be vocal in a situation where there is so much feeling is asking her not to be the breed you chose!
> 
> How do you plan to socialise your dog how to act towards someone who hates her? How do you set up practise situations for her to experience and learn to do this on her own pathway in and out of her property?
> ...


There was already a thread where people suggested a different breed would suit better. But the OP found a litter of GSDs waiting to go - which was odd because most decent breeders have wait lists or homes already lined up - which was my point of concern. I saw a picture of the pup the other day and she's a working line pup too. In my opinion, neighbours are more than likely going to be less of an issue for someone who hasn't really researched the breed enough in a lot of people's eyes. But hey ho.. I've learned a long time ago that advice given is not always taken and people do what they like.


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

BigMomma said:


> I cannot and will not excuse the occasional barking session as she grows, she's a dog. As long as she's not barking directly at anyone, I don't see the problem. What she does when I have to go out or am not there is not in my control


I love dogs, I happen to really like working type dogs too, even so, I would not be too enthused at having a close neighbor with a typical WL GSD barkinig like they typically do. It's a loud, obnoxious bark, I can see it getting old really fast. 
Same thing when you are not home. She is still your dog, you are still responsible for her behavior when you are not home.



SLB said:


> There was already a thread where people suggested a different breed would suit better. But the OP found a litter of GSDs waiting to go - which was odd because most decent breeders have wait lists or homes already lined up - which was my point of concern. I saw a picture of the pup the other day and she's a working line pup too. In my opinion, neighbours are more than likely going to be less of an issue for someone who hasn't really researched the breed enough in a lot of people's eyes. But hey ho.. I've learned a long time ago that advice given is not always taken and people do what they like.


Yes, the pieces are starting to fall in to place. Same story over and over again. I look forward though to a different ending


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Just so everyone knows - I'm not letting my neighbour know I'm getting another dog.. They didn't let us know they were having a baby.. It was only until it woke me up screaming one night that I knew.. but then I don't share a garden with them.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

To be fair though, I bet there are a bunch of us who may have come here asking for advice on which breed to add to our life who would have been told to stay away from our preferable choice. I'm certain that most would have steered me away from a Hovawart, because you have to have this thing called 'experience'. Mostly referring to experience of other large guarding breeds. But as I always like to say, how do you gain experience if you're never given the option to learn? I went in head first into a breed with quite a challenging personality from high tempered parent's AND from another country entirely. Now that's leaping in at the deep end. However, I did feel ready and knowledgeable enough to know what I was letting myself in for and I did have two other dogs, so even without the experience of owning large breeds before, I do have experience of training and raising dogs in general.

So yes, BigMomma may not have listened to the advice given, but obviously she felt a GSD was right for them and feels able to provide the stimulation needed for such a breed. Who are we to say otherwise?


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Exactly, why the hell should you tell your neighbours you are getting a dog when the landlord has ok'd it anyway?


SLB said:


> Just so everyone knows - I'm not letting my neighbour know I'm getting another dog.. They didn't let us know they were having a baby.. It was only until it woke me up screaming one night that I knew.. but then I don't share a garden with them.


:Hilarious I was thinking this earlier, but thought 'better not' but what the hell. Would your neighbours have to check with the other residents if they could have a kid? Because it is something that not everyone likes, sharing the communal area!

Where I used to live next door had a toddler that screamed bloody murder every night for about 3 hours. In summer from about 7-10pm was NOT nice. I hated it.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Muttly said:


> Exactly, why the hell should you tell your neighbours you are getting a dog when the landlord has ok'd it anyway?
> 
> :Hilarious I was thinking this earlier, but thought 'better not' but what the hell. Would your neighbours have to check with the other residents if they could have a kid? Because it is something that not everyone likes, sharing the communal area!
> 
> Where I used to live next door had a toddler that screamed bloody murder every night for about 3 hours. In summer from about 7-10pm was NOT nice. I hated it.


A child is slightly different to a dog don't you think YOU were once a child and I'm sure you screamed bloody murder too.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

SLB said:


> Just so everyone knows - I'm not letting my neighbour know I'm getting another dog.. They didn't let us know they were having a baby.. It was only until it woke me up screaming one night that I knew.. but then I don't share a garden with them.


Well that is the key difference here. What is that saying - good fences make for good neighbours? Or words to that effect.

I think if there is shared space involved then it's common courtesy to inform those you are sharing a space with. I don't see that as being relevant if it's your own property.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> To be fair though, I bet there are a bunch of us who may have come here asking for advice on which breed to add to our life who would have been told to stay away from our preferable choice. I'm certain that most would have steered me away from a Hovawart, because you have to have this thing called 'experience'. Mostly referring to experience of other large guarding breeds. But as I always like to say, how do you gain experience if you're never given the option to learn? I went in head first into a breed with quite a challenging personality from high tempered parent's AND from another country entirely. Now that's leaping in at the deep end. However, I did feel ready and knowledgeable enough to know what I was letting myself in for and I did have two other dogs, so even without the experience of owning large breeds before, I do have experience of training and raising dogs in general.
> 
> So yes, BigMomma may not have listened to the advice given, but obviously she felt a GSD was right for them and feels able to provide the stimulation needed for such a breed. Who are we to say otherwise?


Okay so I've kept my gob shut in the drama llama threads, there is a world of difference someone having dogs, researching their breeder, researching their breeder and choosing the right one and waiting for their puppy, to someone deciding on a breed, picking their breeder and picking up a 10 week old pup in a space of two2 weeks someone who already gave up a high energy dog, someone who seems to think a breed known for guarding and barking is going to not to what it's meant to do, someone who seem to court drama every time they leave their home or come on a bloody forum and the dog still only a puppy..


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Meezey said:


> A child is slightly different to a dog don't you think YOU were once and I'm sure you screamed bloody murder too.


I think it's relevant. It is something potentially loud and distruptive (as BOTH CAN be) sharing the communal space.

And yes I know I was a kid once wtf? :Facepalm


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

labradrk said:


> Well that is the key difference here. What is that saying - good fences make for good neighbours? Or words to that effect.
> 
> I think if there is shared space involved then it's common courtesy to inform those you are sharing a space with. I don't see that as being relevant if it's your own property.


I know - was a bit of a pointless post tbf. Although when Targ came to visit as a pup, he did see me on the drive and looked very shocked when he said "You got another one"...


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Muttly said:


> I think it's relevant. It is something potentially loud and distruptive (as BOTH CAN be) sharing the communal space.
> 
> And yes I know I was a kid once wtf? :Facepalm


World of difference nothing I hate more when people make reference to people or children when trying to make a point about dogs.. Worlds apart...


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

The 


Muttly said:


> Exactly, why the hell should you tell your neighbours you are getting a dog when the landlord has ok'd it anyway?
> 
> :Hilarious I was thinking this earlier, but thought 'better not' but what the hell. Would your neighbours have to check with the other residents if they could have a kid? Because it is something that not everyone likes, sharing the communal area!
> 
> Where I used to live next door had a toddler that screamed bloody murder every night for about 3 hours. In summer from about 7-10pm was NOT nice. I hated it.


Again, we are talking about use of a shared space, not someone who's animal will be confined to their own property.

A lot of people are afraid of GSD so I think if you look from the perspective of the elderly couple, you can see why the prospect of this has upset them. If you are afraid of dogs, the prospect of having one possibly getting out any time you are outside is a probably quite scary.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

I just think it is all ridiculous tbh. People expect far too much.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Muttly said:


> I just think it is all ridiculous tbh. People expect far too much.


Why is it? It would be common courtesy they share a space? They had a great relationship with their neighbours before and in all that great relationship they never once mentioned getting a puppy? 3 Sides to every story OP side the neighbours side and the truth, not a few days ago the the breeder was the most evil man on the earth, the teenagers in the street... If people want to get sucked in to the drama good luck to them, great vibes for a dog to have to live with drama and anger on a daily basis.. I think it's pretty bloody ridiculous ever post the OP makes is drama.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Okay so I've kept my gob shut in the drama llama threads, there is a world of difference someone having dogs, researching their breeder, researching their breeder and choosing the right one and waiting for their puppy, to someone deciding on a breed, picking their breeder and picking up a 10 week old pup in a space of two2 weeks someone who already gave up a high energy dog, someone who seems to think a breed known for guarding and barking is going to not to what it's meant to do, someone who seem to court drama every time they leave their home or come on a bloody forum and the dog still only a puppy..


The breeder part doesn't sit right with me either, it was all very fast and convenient. But my point was that a lot of us would probably be advised not to take on X,Y, or Z breed if we asked beforehand. Hell, many of us ourselves don't even recommend our own breeds! lol. So in that respect, I see no issue with BigMomma deciding a GSD was right for her and I'd hope she is fully aware of the potential challenges ahead.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

I've got a guarding breed from working lines. She's been trained not to bark at the neighbours between the houses, in their gardens and somebody knocking on the door...Vocalising was discouraged with her like it was with all of my other "loud" breeds and none of them are barkers. I'm not sure why people think guarding breeds from working lines can't be trained to respond accordingly to the right stimuli.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Dogloverlou said:


> The breeder part doesn't sit right with me either, it was all very fast and convenient. But my point was that a lot of us would probably be advised not to take on X,Y, or Z breed if we asked beforehand. Hell, many of us ourselves don't even recommend our own breeds! lol. So in that respect, I see no issue with BigMomma deciding a GSD was right for her and I'd hope she is fully aware of the potential challenges ahead.


I do see a big issue with it, no I wouldn't recommend my breed to most people on here, but if they were set on it I'd recommend a good breeder who health and temp tests, I'd ask them to research the breed go see them showing or working, talk to people owning already talk to working line owners etc, if they did all that ( it would take longer than two weeks) then fair play to them they truly understand their breed, and then I'd take no issue with it.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

dogsaintdumb said:


> I've got a guarding breed from working lines. She's been trained not to bark at the neighbours between the houses, in their gardens and somebody knocking on the door...Vocalising was discouraged with her like it was with all of my other "loud" breeds and none of them are barkers. I'm not sure why people think guarding breeds from working lines can't be trained to respond accordingly to the right stimuli.


Do you have a GSD? Why would you get a dog known to be vocal and expect it not to bark? Bit like getting pointer and expecting it not to show breed traits. I have Rottweilers who don't bark but they aren't know for it.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

I have had GSD's (5 at different times though only two permanent/mine -- others were temporary). I currently have Dobermans which have always been guarding breeds.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Is


Dogloverlou said:


> To be fair though, I bet there are a bunch of us who may have come here asking for advice on which breed to add to our life who would have been told to stay away from our preferable choice. I'm certain that most would have steered me away from a Hovawart, because you have to have this thing called 'experience'. Mostly referring to experience of other large guarding breeds. But as I always like to say, how do you gain experience if you're never given the option to learn? I went in head first into a breed with quite a challenging personality from high tempered parent's AND from another country entirely. Now that's leaping in at the deep end. However, I did feel ready and knowledgeable enough to know what I was letting myself in for and I did have two other dogs, so even without the experience of owning large breeds before, I do have experience of training and raising dogs in general.
> 
> So yes, BigMomma may not have listened to the advice given, but obviously she felt a GSD was right for them and feels able to provide the stimulation needed for such a breed. Who are we to say otherwise?


It's not so much the experience of the owner but choosing a breed that is appropriate for the environment. Eg a highly driven, sharp, working type guarding breed probably isn't the most ideal candidate for shared space living. Same for other highly driven breeds, livestock guardian breeds, primitive breeds etc.

Yes you COULD have those breeds in a shared space, but given the dogs natural instincts there is the potential to cause conflict. On the other hand, there are plenty of breeds that suit that type of environment better.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

dogsaintdumb said:


> I have had GSD's (5 at different times though only two permanent/mine -- others were temporary). I currently have Dobermans which have always been guarding breeds.


And as far as I know like Rottweilers they aren't known for being a particularly barky.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

...Dobermans aren't known for being vocal?  Alright.


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

kare said:


> This is going to get harder and harder.
> A GSD, especially a working lines one, which imo lack the filter on reacting that the other lines have, I have no doubt it will prove impossible for this situation to work out in the long run.
> 
> The closer she gets to maturity the more she will pick up on every single emotion at play here. The old couples fear will set her off, their hostility will set her off, your anxiety stress tension will set her off at the target of your feelings. All in a shared space of entrance/exit?
> ...


Just to clarify, I personally don't think the OP did enough research into the breed before getting one, she clearly didn't mention it to her neighbours which, whilst not obligatory, would have been nice when sharing a communal area. However, through luck or judgement the puppy is a very well bred one, from stable, moderate working lines. If the pup is given boundaries and enough training, exercise, stimulation and human companionship that such a dog needs then I have no doubt she will be far more sociable than many GSD out there.

My working line GSD is far more balanced, level headed and sociable than all the other types I have owned over the years.

Training a dog in IPO requires a certain level of commitment that I am not sure will be possible with two young children and not a lot of time (as pointed out in one of the OP's earliest posts) - but stranger things have happened. It is imperative that IPO dogs are stable and balanced individuals and that many hours of training go in to their control work. Therefore, imo, IPO has no relevance in this discussion.

Having said all that, there are many elderly people who are afraid of being knocked over, barked at, bitten etc by large dogs (not helped by media hysteria) and so it is not a completely unfathomable reaction from them.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

dogsaintdumb said:


> I've got a guarding breed from working lines. She's been trained not to bark at the neighbours between the houses, in their gardens and somebody knocking on the door...Vocalising was discouraged with her like it was with all of my other "loud" breeds and none of them are barkers. I'm not sure why people think guarding breeds from working lines can't be trained to respond accordingly to the right stimuli.


Blimey, I wish Cash would learn to shut his gob! He goes nuts at the neighbour passing my back gate......although if I go out there and hold his collar he's as quiet as a mouse and just watches instead.

He's still very impulsive though and needs to learn better manners so that plays a big part IMO. As you say, there should be no reason a high tempered working line dog should be so OTT it's barking and going nuts at any outside stimuli.


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

kare said:


> This is going to get harder and harder.
> A GSD, especially a working lines one, which imo lack the filter on reacting that the other lines have, I have no doubt it will prove impossible for this situation to work out in the long run.
> 
> The closer she gets to maturity the more she will pick up on every single emotion at play here. The old couples fear will set her off, their hostility will set her off, your anxiety stress tension will set her off at the target of your feelings. All in a shared space of entrance/exit?
> ...


Oops also meant to say that, the puppy being working lines aside, the above is why GSDR Scotland do not allow rescue GSD to go to people with communal gardens.


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## Mrsred (Oct 23, 2013)

Oh dear, oh dear. 

OP, my mother is frightened of dogs and would be horrified at an unannounced, large breed pup suddenly appearing and using shared space to toilet etc. 

At the very least you could have had a friendly chat and smoothed out any concerns beforehand. Yes, their behaviour afterwards was a bit ridiculous but I would be furious too, and I'm a dog lover. 

I own my own house, the garden is separated from my neighbours by a 6ft fence and still it isn't a jolly holiday. My lab has a tendency to alert bark, so if we are all out playing and next door come out, we immediately go straight in, because I am of the mindset that it would be rude and un neighbourly not to. 

They know this and the father who has recently given up work sometimes comes out to sit, watches us go in and then takes himself back in again. People are odd and get their kicks from odd places. 

They have three teenage daughters who take lumps out of each other,hammer up and down the stairs and peer out the windows at you. I cannot tell you how I dread the school summer holidays as they will lie out, blaring music and I will have to watch my lab like a hawk - and none of my dogs are out in the garden unsupervised unless for a pee. It really does take the sheen off things, I can tell you. 

This is what you will be up against, I'm afraid, can you hand on heart say you are NEVER going to let Paisley off lead for a quick run about to burn off steam? Every time you are out doing training, you will very possibly be interrupted by neighbours who want to come out and sit quietly. 

Unless you are an extremely proficient dog trainer, of course you will make mistakes and an eager puppy will run up to people, jump and bark, and by the sounds of things, you're neighbours will be looking for the first stick they can find to beat you with.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

I'd take a container of water with you when she's in the garden, then you can rinse over where she's going to the toilet. Just to cover all bases in case anyone is worried about grass being scorched and stuff, or would possibly use that as a way to complain.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

@Meezey, just saw your edit. I wouldn't get a vocal breed of dog and expect it not to bark...I would get a vocal dog and combat the barking. I'm not sure BigMomma would be capable at this point of teaching the dog simply not to bark unnecessarily, but experienced and responsible (hand in hand) handlers can and do. BigMomma may not have enough oomph behind her to know how to go about it successfully but as she's thinking of getting into IPO she'll have the resources (experienced and talented trainers) and help she needs to have a dog that doesn't bark unnecessarily.

Supposing she does get involved with IPO, the dog will need to be under close control to progress anyway. If she's got good enough control to get the dog to release the bite sleeve, there shouldn't be a problem when it comes to quieting the dog.

All supposing she gets involved in IPO...There are barely any IPO opportunities in my area. I'd have had to travel for about two hours for training had my original plan gone as expected.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

We have paper thing walls in our semi and when we first moved in the neighbours gave us hell with screaming kids at 5am, them screaming at the kids, kids tv shows BLARING to the point it would wake us out of deep sleeps - then there was the all night partys, smoking drugs and screaming matchings at stupid o clock. My 2 do bark and can be noisy and I always apologised if I seen them and made small talk and said hello to the kids. I never got a sorry or anything back. Long story short, we are now are smiling and small chat terms. We live in different worlds, but I always respected them no matter what. They sometimes have a SBT round and he barks, doesnt bother me. 

After a rough patch between them, they are very quiet (for the most part!) and I always ensure my 2 are as quiet as they can be. If they start barking in the garden I get them in, despite the massive wall and fence between us. Our neighbours who arent attached are an older couple and are very sweet and Charlie likes to stick his head under the fence for a fuss. They are bird lovers and feed the birds every day so I ensure my 2 are kept in whilst the birds are out.

I suppose my point is, as long as you're always respectful and civil you can still live alongside each other, no matter how rough things get!


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

This is going to sound ugly, and I don't mean it to, just realistic.

I'm not worried about a working line GSD sharing a communal garden successfully.
I'm worried about someone who found a husky puppy too much to handle handling a working line GSD in a communal garden successfully. 

Again, not trying to be mean, just realistic. 

OP, I hope you have a great support nework in place in the way of breeder support, and knowledgable trainer support etc.


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

i live in a flat with a communal garden. I do not and would not let Clover use it as a toilet. Not everyone likes dogs


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

dogsaintdumb said:


> @Meezey, just saw your edit. I wouldn't get a vocal breed of dog and expect it not to bark...I would get a vocal dog and combat the barking. I'm not sure BigMomma would be capable at this point of teaching the dog simply not to bark unnecessarily, but experienced and responsible (hand in hand) handlers can and do. BigMomma may not have enough oomph behind her to know how to go about it successfully but as she's thinking of getting into IPO she'll have the resources (experienced and talented trainers) and help she needs to have a dog that doesn't bark unnecessarily.
> 
> Supposing she does get involved with IPO, the dog will need to be under close control to progress anyway. If she's got good enough control to get the dog to release the bite sleeve, there shouldn't be a problem when it comes to quieting the dog.
> 
> All supposing she gets involved in IPO...There are barely any IPO opportunities in my area. I'd have had to travel for about two hours for training had my original plan gone as expected.


I am going to bow out of it after this comment! I know what great trainers can do, I know a working line GSD in the right hands is no more of a risk than any other type of GSD I know guarding breeds aren't hard work was a military dog handler and have worked and owned GSD's and Rottweilers, I know all that my main frustration about this post and others like it is purely the fact if a little time and consideration had been taken over breed and choosing breeder and puppy, all this daily drama wouldn't be filling up the forum, and the fact if anyone dares point it out dummies are spat out! Wonderful calm person who doesn't like confrontation but does a lot of it! I'm trying to stay out of threads but it pisses me off no end when everyone else's is blamed for everything and other members brush it under the carpet and smooth it over, long and short OP has made shitty choices, and admits to them, she needs to stop blaming others, stop making daily dramas with people here and outside and suck it up! Either put up or shut up whinging about the world and its uncle does nothing! Get on here and find out ways to make the best of a shitty situation, find out about training, socialising and make this pup the best GSD out there she is 12 weeks already! I am done OP is going on ignore!


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

I agree, I was part of the other thread.

I've got nothing to say to BigMomma, what she does now is her choice as she's had plenty of advice from the forum and I'm not entirely sure how she found a decent breeder with WL GSD's who would have given her a pup if I'm completely honest. I just came here to point out that WL guarding breeds and WL breeds from any background can be trained to react appropriately to situations.

I think the main concern for everyone was pointed out by ouesi -- that BigMomma bit off more than she could chew. That's what I'm concerned about anyway, and why I haven't posted a lot to this thread in regards to BigMomma herself. It's pretty clear she doesn't want to take the advice from this forum to heart and that's her choice. I just hope she doesn't regret it eventually.


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

Meezey said:


> I am going to bow out of it after this comment! I know what great trainers can do, I know a working line GSD in the right hands is no more of a risk than any other type of GSD I know guarding breeds aren't hard work was a military dog handler and have worked and owned GSD's and Rottweilers, I know all that my main frustration about this post and others like it is purely the fact if a little time and consideration had been taken over breed and choosing breeder and puppy, all this daily drama wouldn't be filling up the forum, and the fact if anyone dares point it out dummies are spat out! Wonderful calm person who doesn't like confrontation but does a lot of it! I'm trying to stay out of threads but it pisses me off no end when everyone else's is blamed for everything and other members brush it under the carpet and smooth it over, long and short OP has made shitty choices, and admits to them, she needs to stop blaming others, stop making daily dramas with people here and outside and suck it up! Either put up or shut up whinging about the world and its uncle does nothing! Get on here and find out ways to make the best of a shitty situation, find out about training, socialising and make this pup the best GSD out there she is 12 weeks already! I am done OP is going on ignore!


Meezey just before you go on ignore gotta ask - didn't you ever make mistakes?
I hear you, I know a lot of people come on a forum looking for affirmation when they have cocked up and what most of them really need is a smacked bottom!!
But as a very gobby person myself who has learned a lot of lessons the hard way I know how much the truth can hurt at times! Not saying you have to dress everything up in frilly knickers but you don't have to rub their noses in it either.....


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Delilahdog said:


> Meezey just before you go on ignore gotta ask - didn't you ever make mistakes?
> I hear you, I know a lot of people come on a forum looking for affirmation when they have cocked up and what most of them really need is a smacked bottom!!
> But as a very gobby person myself who has learned a lot of lessons the hard way I know how much the truth can hurt at times! Not saying you have to dress everything up in frilly knickers but you don't have to rub their noses in it either.....


Oh grow up and just go hit the ignore bye


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Just be grateful you don't all live next door to my sister - she has just taken in a Pitbull! :Woot


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

Meezey said:


> Oh grow up and just go hit the ignore bye


Well just for any one still following, I DID grow up, hence my last post


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Delilahdog said:


> Well just for any one still following, I DID grow up, hence my last post


Delilahdog stop being a drama llama! Go hit the ignore button, I really couldn't give a fiddles! Do it rather than making a song and dance about it go on I promise not to cry myself to sleep.  I'll even do it for you if its to much for you and do the EastEnders closing drum roll if you really need the attention


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

Meezey said:


> Delilahdog stop being a drama llama! Go hit the ignore button, I really couldn't give a fiddles! Do it rather than making a song and dance about it go on I promise not to cry myself to sleep.


Oh sorry I thought you had put me & OP on ignore 
I'm a big girl I'll decide when I need to come off this thread thanks :Kiss


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

come on guys.. play nicely


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I suppose I should not be surprised by the couple of really nasty posters on here.

What the heck has the OP done wrong except for not TELLING her neighbours about the pup before she got it.

what have the neighbours done wrong - they have cut her dead, refused to discuss it and been rude. If the OP or her OH retaliated in any way, well I am sure anyone would have done the same under the same circumstances.

As for those who say have nothing to do with your neighbours , what a sad sad world we live in! But then again I see some shocking posts on here which some people think are not rude - so no doubt they are the same in real life and probably better to have nothing to do with anyone.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Delilahdog said:


> Oh sorry I thought you had put me & OP on ignore
> I'm a big girl I'll decide when I need to come off this thread thanks :Kiss


What are you yapping on about, I am putting the OP on ignore who mentioned you? Who said anything about you coming off the thread? No idea what you are reading?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Delilahdog said:


> Meezey just before you go on ignore gotta ask - didn't you ever make mistakes?
> I hear you, I know a lot of people come on a forum looking for affirmation when they have cocked up and what most of them really need is a smacked bottom!!
> But as a very gobby person myself who has learned a lot of lessons the hard way I know how much the truth can hurt at times! Not saying you have to dress everything up in frilly knickers but you don't have to rub their noses in it either.....


We all mistakes that is true, but hopefully we learn from them and listen to advice.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Blitz said:


> I suppose I should not be surprised by the couple of really nasty posters on here.
> 
> What the heck has the OP done wrong except for not TELLING her neighbours about the pup before she got it.
> 
> ...


And of course Blitz you are never ever ever rude to anyone?


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

Meezey said:


> Delilahdog stop being a drama llama! Go hit the ignore button, I really couldn't give a fiddles! Do it rather than making a song and dance about it go on I promise not to cry myself to sleep.  I'll even do it for you if its to much for you and do the EastEnders closing drum roll if you really need the attention


You told ME to hit ignore.
Look Meezey I'm not looking to get into a slanging match just putting another point of view.


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

Lurcherlad said:


> Just be grateful you don't all live next door to my sister - she has just taken in a Pitbull! :Woot


Might as well bring up pitbulls at this point LOL 
*sigh*


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> We all mistakes that is true, but hopefully we learn from them and listen to advice.


Yes I agree with that but I think having people hit you over the head or say 'I told you so' doesn't really help a lot of the time, it just makes you dig your heels in. Better to try and find an option where no one loses face imo


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Blitz said:


> I suppose I should not be surprised by the couple of really nasty posters on here.
> 
> What the heck has the OP done wrong except for not TELLING her neighbours about the pup before she got it.
> 
> ...


Have to say sometimes I do wonder if you have been reading the same threads as me  Have you been following all the threads started by the OP or just this one?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Might as well bring up pitbulls at this point LOL
> *sigh*


 It was actually meant to be a joke to lighten the mood 

Although it is true - she really has just taken in a young pitbull that was unwanted - she lives in the Caribbean btw.

Her house is full of other peoples' cast off pets


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

Lurcherlad said:


> It was actually meant to be a joke to lighten the mood
> 
> Although it is true - she really has just taken in a young pitbull that was unwanted - she lives in the Caribbean btw.
> 
> Her house is full of other peoples' cast off pets


Yeah, I knew it was tongue in cheek


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

I wasn't aware of some of the other threads the OP has had until it was pointed out.
But if you look a lot of owner's situations you can probably pick holes -
We don't have a secure garden (so RSPCA would probably flatly refuse to home a dog with us) & we travel around a lot and a less easy going dog would find it hard to adjust.
But we manage because our dog is a really important part of our family unit and she is a priority. I am sure a lot of you, if your circumstances changed, would make your lives work for the sake of your dogs too.
Just surprised at how judgemental I have found some of the comments on here tbh.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

TBH I don't think the harsh judgement is anything to do with the OP not telling her neighbour about the fact she was getting a dog.

Fair play to BigMomma for coming back and trying to settle in to PF after causing a problem for herself, but the fact of the matter is her OH got a dog she didn't want which she couldn't cope with so she returned to the breeder...Okay, not too big of a deal, it wasn't necessarily down to her to get the dog. But then she goes out very quickly and gets a WL GSD from a person she called a BYB after asking for advice regarding breeders on PF. I don't really know what she expects from the forum TBH.

It's not my business where she goes to get her dogs but it really doesn't seem like a lot of thought has gone into this one and that concerns me.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Have to say sometimes I do wonder if you have been reading the same threads as me  Have you been following all the threads started by the OP or just this one?


I am replying to this post. I read her initial one about the neighbour dispute and I have great sympathy for her. Any other posts are totally irrelevant. It does not matter how quickly she got the dog,where it came from or whether she had had another dog before, the neighbours have behaved very poorly towards her and some of the posters on here have spoken to her in a disgraceful way.

If the dog was older and was running riot and the neighbours were then kicking up it would be an entirely different story and then maybe her past posts about her dogs might have some relevance.


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

dogsaintdumb said:


> TBH I don't think the harsh judgement is anything to do with the OP not telling her neighbour about the fact she was getting a dog.
> 
> Fair play to BigMomma for coming back and trying to settle in to PF after causing a problem for herself, but the fact of the matter is her OH got a dog she didn't want which she couldn't cope with so she returned to the breeder...Okay, not too big of a deal, it wasn't necessarily down to her to get the dog. But then she goes out very quickly and gets a WL GSD from a person she called a BYB after asking for advice regarding breeders on PF. I don't really know what she expects from the forum TBH.
> 
> It's not my business where she goes to get her dogs but it really doesn't seem like a lot of thought has gone into this one and that concerns me.


Thanks for the infill Dogsaimdumb. I was gradually joining the dots but didn't have all this background.
I dunno, all I'm saying is that if you really have your heart set on something you can make it work.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Blitz said:


> I am replying to this post. I read her initial one about the neighbour dispute and I have great sympathy for her. Any other posts are totally irrelevant. It does not matter how quickly she got the dog,where it came from or whether she had had another dog before, the neighbours have behaved very poorly towards her and some of the posters on here have spoken to her in a disgraceful way.
> 
> If the dog was older and was running riot and the neighbours were then kicking up it would be an entirely different story and then maybe her past posts about her dogs might have some relevance.


I don't think anyone has spoken to her in a disgraceful way, I got my head bitten off earlier for offering an opinion and not even to the OP, I was answering someone else's question. As for the neighbours I think we all have different ideas of what is acceptable - you and others think its quite acceptable to bring a large breed pup into a communal garden shared with elderly and infirm neighbours without mentioning it or for that matter introducing the pup to them ASAP to try and make sure pup is used to them from a very early stage and has good positive associations. I and others don't and can understand why the neighbours are upset. You don't see the relevance of previous posts and history whereas some of us do. Its not rude or disgraceful to mention something the OP did a whole thread explaining is it?


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Tell you..if it was me...I would have told them that they may report me..still..I would advice them not to for lots of bad karma may come their way.

For they are not the only one who can be very unneighbourly.

Do not they prefer to spend their last years in peace instead?
Or else?
I can think of few good ideas that might put people off bothering me..

The moment they realise they are only elderly couple and starting nastiness is not in their favour they should at least keep quiet.
And warn them that if anything happens to the dog...eye for an eye.


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

I'm gonna get a goat.
I'm not gonna tell my neighbors.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

cheekyscrip said:


> Tell you..if it was me...I would have told them that they may report me..still..I would advice them not to for lots of bad karma may come their way.
> 
> For they are not the only one who can be very unneighbourly.
> 
> ...


Wow just wow!!!


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## caju (Jan 3, 2015)

I'm friendly with most of the people on my street, in that I'll say hello, stop for a chat every now and then. I wouldn't let them know if I was getting a dog though. We don't share any land, so why would I?

I realise OP's situation is different, just that I read somebody else say that they would inform their neighbours.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

One thing though...I would not let my dog to pee or anything in the communal garden.
Landlord allows the dog...big, small no matter.You needed permission from them and no one else. If contract says so..that how it stands and reporting you dors nothing unless dog is bothering...
I do not allow my dog to use any communal area as a toilet no matter pee or poo. We walk out.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

The threats may be going a bit far there, @cheekyscrip LOL.

People are entitled to do whatever they please. They can break the law and make threats and get puppies from BYBs and be annoyed at their neighbours and do whatever, but it's the not realising/being surprised that there are consequences to all actions that baffles me.

@ouesi, go a step further and name the goat Killer-Pit-Bull (triple barrelled).


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

caju said:


> I realise OP's situation is different, just that I read somebody else say that they would inform their neighbours.


But it is the fact that the situation is different that is key. I didn't tell my neighbours I was getting a puppy, but there was no reason for me to - it's my house any MY garden. If I was in a situation with a shared garden that I was intending to let the dog use then it would have been common courtesy to at least mention it.

OP also seems to have a fairly rose-tinted view of how easy it will be to train a puppy to behave perfectly. It may well be that this happens but I would be very wary of assuring people that your dog will never be a problem as you may find your words come back to bite you. Dogs are not robots and, training or not, they can develop problems. Yes, it may be possible to train these out, but it will almost certainly take time and, if you have neighbours who are inclined to complain, then you may find yourself in trouble.


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## caju (Jan 3, 2015)

Dimwit said:


> But it is the fact that the situation is different that is key. I didn't tell my neighbours I was getting a puppy, but there was no reason for me to - it's my house any MY garden. If I was in a situation with a shared garden that I was intending to let the dog use then it would have been common courtesy to at least mention it.
> 
> OP also seems to have a fairly rose-tinted view of how easy it will be to train a puppy to behave perfectly. It may well be that this happens but I would be very wary of assuring people that your dog will never be a problem as you may find your words come back to bite you. Dogs are not robots and, training or not, they can develop problems. Yes, it may be possible to train these out, but it will almost certainly take time and, if you have neighbours who are inclined to complain, then you may find yourself in trouble.


I know. I should've quoted but earlier in the day I read a post where somebody said that they would tell their neighbours no matter where they lived!


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

cheekyscrip said:


> Tell you..if it was me...I would have told them that they may report me..still..I would advice them not to for lots of bad karma may come their way.
> 
> For they are not the only one who can be very unneighbourly.
> 
> ...


That's a joke right? If its not I think you will find it constitutes threatening behaviour :Jawdrop


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

dogsaintdumb said:


> @ouesi, go a step further and name the goat Killer-Pit-Bull (triple barrelled).


Nah, the pit bull we'll call Fang. The goat's name is Chupacabra.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

I think if you do not let your dog use the garden etc..as a toilet.
Pee smells!...the rest is really your business, not theirs..
OP did not need anyone's but landlord's permission.
Her neighbours did not need to be horrid..if they did not like the dog in the garden..might voice their concern to her...
Surely dog can be train not to toilet there and be kept on the lead by an adult?
So yes...if I were threaten to be reported and did nothing wrong...I would suggest that threats and nastiness can go both ways...and possibilities are endless.
I do not say I would threaten or do anything..but they would not know that!


I got a cat..
Some of my neighbours admitted they do not like cats...Garf proudly walks the landing..I just keep an eye he does not sneak into their flats
But OH and I help everyone in anything..so they put up with Scrip and Garfield. Deal.


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

cheekyscrip said:


> Tell you..if it was me...I would have told them that they may report me..still..I would advice them not to for lots of bad karma may come their way.
> 
> For they are not the only one who can be very unneighbourly.
> 
> ...





cheekyscrip said:


> *One thing though...I would not let my dog to pee or anything in the communal garden.*


As long as we keep priorities in order. Threats are fine, just don't let the dog whizz on the grass...
:Locktopicenguin


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

cheekyscrip said:


> I think if you do not let your dog use the garden etc..as a toilet.
> Pee smells!...the rest is really your business, not theirs..
> OP did not need anyone's but landlord's permission.
> Her neighbours did not need to be horrid..if they did not like the dog in the garden..might voice their concern to her...


Firstly the neighbours started out by just ignoring the OP not by being horrid, the words were only exchanged this morning after the OP sent them a letter and then tried to speak to them again when they clearly didn't want to. Secondly it might just be possible given how the OP loses her temper at anyone who doesn't agree with her quite quickly and says her OH went out and had words with the elderly couple that they didn't actually feel able to voice their concerns/that they wouldn't be listened to or would be met with hostility. I'm not saying that is the case but that we are not hearing their side of the story.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> That's a joke right? If its not I think you will find it constitutes threatening behaviour :Jawdrop


Bad karma?...what goes round comes round..law of karma..you will be incarnated as worm!
Or BNP member. You think it is a joke.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Yes, i think both parties are being childish and petty and blowing the whole thing out of proportion due to the inability to talk like mature, responsible adults.
> 
> Seems it much easier these days to bitch and moan behind closed doors.





ouesi said:


> I'm gonna get a goat.
> I'm not gonna tell my neighbors.


I did get a goat and not tell my neighbour when I lived in a semi in a town. All was well till she stuck her head through the fence and ate some prize plants. Luckily neighbours were good friends and still are 35 years later even though we have not been neighbours for over 30 years.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

cheekyscrip said:


> Bad karma?...what goes round comes round..law of karma..you will be incarnated as worm!
> Or BNP member. You think it is a joke.


I have no idea whether you are joking or not. Personally I don't find threatening elderly people funny but I quite agree what goes around comes around.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

@ouesi...


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

dogsaintdumb said:


> @ouesi...


Would it be sad if I admitted this is the highlight of my day?! 
I love it!
But I'm only taking one with full breeding rights and no spay neuter contract.


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

What's this "con-tract" you speak of?


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Firstly the neighbours started out by just ignoring the OP not by being horrid, the words were only exchanged this morning after the OP sent them a letter and then tried to speak to them again when they clearly didn't want to. Secondly it might just be possible given how the OP loses her temper at anyone who doesn't agree with her quite quickly and says her OH went out and had words with the elderly couple that they didn't actually feel able to voice their concerns/that they wouldn't be listened to or would be met with hostility. I'm not saying that is the case but that we are not hearing their side of the story.


True..but they stopped talking to her...instead of just voicing their concern..c'mon! We all had sometime problem with a neighbour..
Normally you just tell them politely what the matter is like reasonable being. Not ignoring them...will that help?
And treating her little ones like that...nasty!!! As if kids were to blame. 
If her OH told them what he thinks ..good. I think their behaviour was rude. All OH should do now is to keep dog on the lead..
Always reasonable in.communal area...and not to let it urinate etc..there..put flea collar...and taught not to bark ( much)...and totally blank those people.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

ouesi said:


> As long as we keep priorities in order. Threats are fine, just don't let the dog whizz on the grass...
> :Locktopicenguin


They are lucky..being my neighbours they would have received a fish in newspaper already...no horse's head though..
Would never ever hurt a horse.

PS my mobile does not allow smillies and OH hogs laptop.
I cannot truly express myself..


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

They were in the middle of moving a bed and the 5 year old ran over 'expecting sweets'. I'd have taken it as they didn't want her to get hit by the bed. I'm not sure it was the best time to go over considering what was happening. I'd just leave them alone and let it go. Show them your dog won't bother them and hopefully it will calm down.


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## Hanlou (Oct 29, 2012)

Eek. I have had bad neighbours twice (and neither time did we cause / provoke the situation, quite the opposite in fact.)

All I can say is best to keep yourself to yourself and as others have said to be polite etc. No doubt in time things will resolve themselves. 

The stress I suffered with the bad neighbours (on top of previous problems I'd had) has left me with what I can only describe as a phobia of having bad / noisy neighbours again. I honestly don't think I would live to tell the tale a third time.....and I am not being dramatic / exaggerating. 

Living close to people you are in conflict with is horrible and very draining and damaging. So all I can advise is to not add fuel to the fire in any way and to be the 'perfect' dog owner. 

Now; Ouesi / Blitz - our house is up for sale. I think where you live sounds great. If you can find a job / teeny space for me and a gentle retired chao plus two dogs I'm moving you way!!


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

Gosh, what an awfully long thread this has become (though I must admit the pittie-goat hybrid is quite something). 

I don't think it's much use criticising the OP about this. 
It's happened and whilst the neighbours' reaction in swearing was uncalled for, given a letter was sent to attempt to open up a dialogue nicely or to confirm if they had a problem, there is not a lot that can be done now. 

I suspect that the OP would probably admit that with hindsight she wouldn't have gone out to talk to them or offer to assist them. Or at the very least without the children, who would predictably run up to them. Again, in hindsight it would have been better to not approach them, given you had made the last move (leaving them the choice to discuss with you). 
BUT as we said before, what is done is done. 
Try and keep civil with them (if that is humanly possible) or ignore them if not. 

I too suspect that their behaviour is probably a symptom of a fear of large breed dogs (not least GSDs). 

Maybe one day you might be able to talk civilly to them about it and they might grow to tolerate your dog. Stranger things have happened. 

Good luck x


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## Little P (Jun 10, 2014)

I'd put money on the fact that the neighbour(s) have a genuine phobia of dogs. Anyone else have a phobia (defined as an irrational fear, emphasis on irrational!)? I have, and it can make you behave in very odd ways. I've also lived in my house on edge constantly due to my phobias and let me tell you, it isn't fun. It's stressful and its incredibly draining. If it's bad, they could even live in fear of catching sight of the dog out the window, never mind accidentally coming face to face with it in the garden. 

Just putting it out there!


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

Wow not even bothered to read through most of what I've missed, how ridiculous.
I find it hard to believe how while I have admitted my faults in this situation i.e not pre warning my neighbours (pretty sure that's the only fault)
I still cannot for the life of me understand what I have done to warrant the attack some people give me. I only posted on here to update the people that actually cared and ask them for advice on the next step.
Do I genuinely care whether you think I can handle a WL GSD (as you love to keep mentioning) that I plan to do IPO with and that will have very strong guarding and protection reactions? No, I couldn't care less!
My neighbours are old, not happy with the decision I've made, clearly, and while I have even apologised to them for not letting them know beforehand, as far as I'm concerned if they no longer want to talk to me, that is 100% their problem and not mine. I've done all I can do, and will continue to do so for example making sure she is on lead in the area, finding a more suitable place for her to toilet, keeping her far away from their area (oh and also going and buying my own rake as our garden has never looked more pathetic) yes I was feeling very sorry for myself yesterday but after sleeping on it, I have come to the conclusion that yes, I do need to grow a thicker skin and what's done is done, they can try to report me if they feel that's necessary but they will get absolutely nowhere as it is my responsibility to make sure they don't and that nobody can fault my dog.
Am I annoyed that as soon as I get my kids to school I then spend the whole time doing as much training mentally and a little physical with Paisley?
Am I annoyed that the Sparks of energy she displays would scare the average dog owner?
Am I annoyed that as she grows her energy will increase and if I don't channel it terrible things will happen?
NO to all of those. She is my dog, I love her and I will never give up on her or take her for granted. Yes I came back on the forum because I genuinely wanted to be on here. Not just for people to help me but to learn things too but I'm not sure if I can put up with people's shitty judgemental attitudes (that's many, not all of you) and yes, I know it's an Internet forum however I do not expect this response from the same people every time I post. I do not invite drama into my life, or have an uncontrollable temper (frankly I can't see how that's possible being a mother to two young girls and now a puppy) I think most of you have the wrong opinion of me and that's totally fine. Thanks to the people that gave me genuinely helpful responses, I will continue to go about my business doing the best I can while not being disrespectful, pestering or rude to the neighbours but also while not giving a flying toss whether they like my dog or not.
To be honest the only reason I would now like to stay on here is to prove the people that seem to be adamant I can't cope very very wrong. And to also talk to the people that have not judged me and helped as much as they can, (whether their posts have been what I wanted to hear or not) I respect everyone's opinions as long as it's not being barked down my neck and I especially do not appreciate being insulted and yes, I find being judged, told I have a short temper, that my situation is worrying VERY insulting!!!!


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Blitz said:


> As for those who say have nothing to do with your neighbours , what a sad sad world we live in! But then again I see some shocking posts on here which some people think are not rude - so no doubt they are the same in real life and probably better to have nothing to do with anyone.


I would hate to live next door to you then, I hate those types of people who won't leave you alone and think just because you live next door we have to be great friends. I like to be left alone, I don't want the street knowing my business.

I am polite to my neighbours and say hello, they are the same. They don't seem to have any inclination to talk to us or the other neighbours either. Why is that sad?
When my next door neighbour's husband got Altzheimers and went into a home we offered support and I do ask about him when I see her. But I think she is happy to be left alone too.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Well done BM, was wondering if you were actually going to come back to be honest!


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

Muttly said:


> Well done BM, was wondering if you were actually going to come back to be honest!


Yeah sorry been busy with something called real life which includes two muddy kids and a very muddy wet pup coz they just love the mud so much, me? Not so much! I'll probably get bashed again for my most recent post but as mentioned, this morning I seem to have grown my first layer of thick skin


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Good on ya! I need to learn to have a thick skin sometimes too, it's hard though.

I love the mud and wet (so does my 6 year old of course), Muttly? Not so much :Hilarious


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

And also just had to vax all the carpets.. They smelt of Paisley pee


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

Oh and I'd like to add onto my "comeback" post that our "garden" is a freaking large patch of grass. No flowers, no input by our neighbours and up till they got their snot on, I was the one who raked the bloody thing!!!! I daren't put a picture up to show the "non believers" that it is simply a patch of grass coz I might get criticised that the grass isn't the right shade of green or the lighting on the picture just isn't perfect, and God forbid if I don't get all the grass in the picture I might be accused of making it sound bigger than it is!!! :Shifty


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

BigMomma said:


> To be honest the only reason I would now like to stay on here is to prove the people that seem to be adamant I can't cope very very wrong. And to also talk to the people that have not judged me and helped as much as they can, (whether their posts have been what I wanted to hear or not) I respect everyone's opinions as long as it's not being barked down my neck and I especially do not appreciate being insulted and yes, I find being judged, told I have a short temper, that my situation is worrying VERY insulting!!!!


Good for you - and I very much look forward to hearing all about Paisley's progress. You can't please all of the people, all of the time - just get on with your life, enjoy your pup and keep posting pics please


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Like I said before, with my neighbours, I HATED living in my own home and came home from work and shut all the curtains and had mild panic attacks about going to my car on the drive. Now I sit with my curtains open, my OH cut down all the trees in our garden (asking them if it was okay first) and now they can see right into our front room. I live my life, they live theirs. If you can have the odd smile and 'good morning' great, but as long as you're not bugging each other, dont worry!


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## Guest (May 8, 2015)

There’s not much to say other than to reiterate that I hope you have a good support network. Sounds like Moobli knows your pup’s lines and can be a good source of information, I’d avail myself of any and all of this type of support you can get.


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

ouesi said:


> There's not much to say other than to reiterate that I hope you have a good support network. Sounds like Moobli knows your pup's lines and can be a good source of information, I'd avail myself of any and all of this type of support you can get.


Why, because I'm going to struggle? Ok. Thanks for your advice.


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## Guest (May 8, 2015)

BigMomma said:


> Why, because I'm going to struggle? Ok. Thanks for your advice.


Because raising any puppy in to a great dog is never a one-man job. 
Because nobody knows it all already, and the more we reach out to others who have more experience and knowledge than us, the more we learn, the better off our dogs end up being.
And frankly, yes, some breeds are more forgiving than others when it comes to mistakes in training and missed socialization opportunities. We all make mistakes, it's just the consequences are different with different breeds.


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Because raising any puppy in to a great dog is never a one-man job.
> Because nobody knows it all already, and the more we reach out to others who have more experience and knowledge than us, the more we learn, the better off our dogs end up being.
> And frankly, yes, some breeds are more forgiving than others when it comes to mistakes in training and missed socialization opportunities. We all make mistakes, it's just the consequences are different with different breeds.


Now that, I do agree with 100%
The only thing I'm skimping out on at the moment is the socialisation part as I don't drive and it's hard to find classes near me at the times I can attend them. Working on it though.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

BM...consider yourself lucky..what if those people happen not to like children? And saw you with a pram?
So people are like that..not your fault..
You must live your live regardless of phobias or dislike of others..
You did no wrong and behaved much better than many would...now I want many updates of your puppy..best wishes to you all.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

BigMomma said:


> Now that, I do agree with 100%
> The only thing I'm skimping out on at the moment is the socialisation part as I don't drive and it's hard to find classes near me at the times I can attend them. Working on it though.


Which is arguably the most important thing. It's great that you're doing lots of training, but training can technically be done at any point, there is a limited window of opportunity for socialisation however. More than anything, I would say, this needs to be your focus. I know it can be tough, especially if you don't drive, but pup needs to be being taken out to see as many different things, and have lots of positive experiences of all those different things asap.


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## Muttly (Oct 1, 2014)

Agree with Alice. Muttly had no socialisation (and only toilet training) up until we took him at 9 months. I have a reactive, over-excited little boy who is going to take a long time to get out of. Plus I've been told he has turned out incredibly well considering.


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## karmacookie (Nov 9, 2014)

Muttly said:


> Agree with Alice. Muttly had no socialisation (and only toilet training) up until we took him at 9 months. I have a reactive, over-excited little boy who is going to take a long time to get out of. Plus I've been told he has turned out incredibly well considering.


Yep me too for a number of reasons and it has made things so much more difficult. Sorry, not me, the dog, lol x


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Alice Childress said:


> Which is arguably the most important thing. It's great that you're doing lots of training, but training can technically be done at any point, there is a limited window of opportunity for socialisation however. More than anything, I would say, this needs to be your focus. I know it can be tough, especially if you don't drive, but pup needs to be being taken out to see as many different things, and have lots of positive experiences of all those different things asap.


Absolutely this. My dog missed out on socialisation as I got him quite late and his breeder didn't bother and that, coupled with his inherently anxious nature has had a massive impact on his behaviour and it is an ongoing struggle for me to address his issues. In terms of training he is actually pretty good - he learns quickly and his basic obedience is good but this all goes out of the window when the fear takes over.


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## Delilahdog (Mar 2, 2014)

The only thing I would like to add is that we have managed to raise our dog very successfully from a puppy (granted not a gsd) without a secure garden and for a lot of the time without any sort of garden. So it isn't the end of the world!
Good luck and I hope the neighbours come round eventually x


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

Meezey said:


> World of difference nothing I hate more when people make reference to people or children when trying to make a point about dogs.. Worlds apart...


Yes worlds apart.I would rather deal with dogs than people..........


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## Rott lover (Jan 2, 2015)

I really hadnt said anything on this but no matter which way you look at in both parties are lacking common courtisy and common sense


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## Guest (May 8, 2015)

BigMomma said:


> Now that, I do agree with 100%
> The only thing I'm skimping out on at the moment is the socialisation part as I don't drive and it's hard to find classes near me at the times I can attend them. Working on it though.


Well, that would be the "some breeds are more forgiving than others" part. 
I wouldn't skimp on socialization with your breed of choice.

This is the sort of thing that folks like me get frustrated with.
Planning for a dog takes, well, planning. This is the sort of thing that ideally you already have figured out *before* the pup comes home. And honestly, a good breeder should have prepared you better, and supported you better as far as making sure that socialization is happening during those critical windows.

It's not the end of the world by any stretch, but it just makes everything so much easier when the pup has those opportunities to learn about the world at the right times.

I have a rescue dog that we got as an adult. A small but annoying thing is his issues with flooring. Fortunately he's a confident, resilient dog who trusts me and will accept footing he doesn't like, but it's something I have to deal with every single time we encounter footing he decides is weird. I don't know what he's going to decide is weird, I don't know what flooring I'm going to encounter out and about.
Imagine for a minute his issues were with men, or kids, or dogs. Or imagine his issues were with something I couldn't narrow down to specifics. All I knew was that sometimes he freaks out, and I don't know why.

Now, it sounds like your pup is from good lines so the nature part of the nature/nurture equation is on your side, and no, I don't think you're going to end up with a dog who freaks out for no apparent reason, but it's just frustrating that you seem so nonchalant about something as important as socialization and haven't already put plans in place to make it a priority. *shrug*


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Well, that would be the "some breeds are more forgiving than others" part.
> I wouldn't skimp on socialization with your breed of choice.
> 
> This is the sort of thing that folks like me get frustrated with.
> ...


Don't mistake the fact I haven't already signed her up for classes as me not being bothered. I am bothered, hence still trying to find some classes! But I'm not manic about it right now as I am able to take her everywhere with me, she comes on the nursery run, to the shops, my mums, and while I know that's not dog socialisation (except my mums GSD) it's still getting her used to different things. I sat with her today at a bus stop and waited for the bus just so she could see it. At the moment there is nothing about her behaviour that worries me and as soon as I find a suitable class (yes I was looking before we got her) she will be signed up.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

BigMomma said:


> Yeah sorry been busy with something called real life which includes two muddy kids and a very muddy wet pup coz they just love the mud so much, me? Not so much! I'll probably get bashed again for my most recent post but as mentioned, this morning I seem to have grown my first layer of thick skin


Whilst growing your thick skin,  you may find the IGNORE option useful. That way you won't even see the posts of people who target you and you will then be able to enjoy using the forum


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

Meezey said:


> Delilahdog stop being a drama llama! Go hit the ignore button, I really couldn't give a fiddles! Do it rather than making a song and dance about it go on I promise not to cry myself to sleep.  I'll even do it for you if its to much for you and do the EastEnders closing drum roll if you really need the attention


You are actually horrific. Just read all the posts you've put on here, sorry we must all bow down to meezey, the one who really DOES know it all. where do you get off telling other people to grow up, that they are pathetic and hilarious etc etc, I'm glad you've put your two cents in. Hopefully you'll shut up and get on with your own life! I post for advice, not for drama but I don't for one second expect you to believe that. You are obviously sick of me so stop insulting me and being petty and go and take a running jump you rude person!


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Whilst growing your thick skin,  you may find the IGNORE option useful. That way you won't even see the posts of people who target you and you will then be able to enjoy using the forum


Thank you so much, I've a few I'm about to apply that to! I had no idea such a button existed!


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## Guest (May 8, 2015)

BigMomma said:


> Don't mistake the fact I haven't already signed her up for classes as me not being bothered. I am bothered, hence still trying to find some classes! But I'm not manic about it right now as I am able to take her everywhere with me,* she comes on the nursery run, to the shops, my mums, and while I know that's not dog socialisation (except my mums GSD) it's still getting her used to different things. I sat with her today at a bus stop and waited for the bus just so she could see it.* At the moment there is nothing about her behaviour that worries me and as soon as I find a suitable class (yes I was looking before we got her) she will be signed up.


That is socialization 
Presenting new experiences in a positive way is exactly what socialization is. 
Smelling, hearing, seeing, touching lots of different things that she will encounter in a lifetime, in a positive, non-stressful way.

I'm actually not a fan of dog socialization classes. I want my dogs to be neutral to other dogs and not see them as an opportunity for interaction.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

Oh I did not know there was an ignore button where would that be then


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

ouesi said:


> That is socialization
> Presenting new experiences in a positive way is exactly what socialization is.
> Smelling, hearing, seeing, touching lots of different things that she will encounter in a lifetime, in a positive, non-stressful way.
> 
> I'm actually not a fan of dog socialization classes. I want my dogs to be neutral to other dogs and not see them as an opportunity for interaction.


Oh, sorry that's my mistake I thought you meant in terms of perhaps classes where she can meet other dogs.
Yeah she comes wherever I can take her, obviously I do leave her on some occasions also to prevent separation anxiety but yes, she is well on her way in terms of that stuff! Apologies!


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## dogsaintdumb (Mar 21, 2015)

Click on the user's name and "Ignore" will be to the far right in green.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

dogsaintdumb said:


> Click on the user's name and "Ignore" will be to the far right in green.


oh thanks I see it now not that I wanted to ignore anyone just being nosey trying to learn more about this new format


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## BigMomma (Aug 16, 2012)

After all this and very very long thread, I'd like to add to this that this afternoon, I was outside my front door getting Paisley ready for a walk, and my neighbour actually chose to come out while we were out there to get her washing in. She smiled at me, I smiled back, all while making sure Paisley was sitting and waiting. After a little while she said "think there's some rain on its way if you want to get your washing in too"
I just said thanks and that id do it before I went for a walk.
That was it, she then went inside. 
Perhaps things won't be as bad as I thought.
I'm happy with that.


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## shirleystarr (Mar 22, 2009)

BigMomma said:


> After all this and very very long thread, I'd like to add to this that this afternoon, I was outside my front door getting Paisley ready for a walk, and my neighbour actually chose to come out while we were out there to get her washing in. She smiled at me, I smiled back, all while making sure Paisley was sitting and waiting. After a little while she said "think there's some rain on its way if you want to get your washing in too"
> I just said thanks and that id do it before I went for a walk.
> That was it, she then went inside.
> Perhaps things won't be as bad as I thought.
> I'm happy with that.


well that's a great improvement maybe they have had a little think about things hope it continues


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

BigMomma said:


> Now that, I do agree with 100%
> The only thing I'm skimping out on at the moment is the socialisation part as I don't drive and it's hard to find classes near me at the times I can attend them. Working on it though.


If driving isn't a goer at the mo, I would thoroughly suggest getting her out and about. Popping to town or your local supermarket with her. Not going into the supermarket or shops of course that is, just to linger outside, watch the world go by with her (and all sorts of people, people with trolleys, cars noises, everything man and dog eating etc). Bring a portion of her daily food ration (and high value stuff too) so that you reward her for nice stuff and make it an overall nice experience (maybe even have people feeding her if that's appropriate).

If friends can come round to yours to visit her and help socialising her (again using a portion of her food to provide her with a positive experience around new people), all the better.

A few ideas to get cracking with.  A socialisation period fulled with positive experiences of the world and its oddities will be a crucial foundation for your pup and giving her that "bounce back" ability when weird things happen in life.

I've dealt with lots of dogs who were relatively isolated and not given nice experiences during their primary socialisation period and I'm afraid to say as a general rule, it has affected their ability to cope with stuff and lead as much as a stress free life as possible. 

Hope that helps


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

BigMomma said:


> Don't mistake the fact I haven't already signed her up for classes as me not being bothered. I am bothered, hence still trying to find some classes! But I'm not manic about it right now as I am able to take her everywhere with me, she comes on the nursery run, to the shops, my mums, and while I know that's not dog socialisation (except my mums GSD) it's still getting her used to different things. I sat with her today at a bus stop and waited for the bus just so she could see it. At the moment there is nothing about her behaviour that worries me and as soon as I find a suitable class (yes I was looking before we got her) she will be signed up.


If the issue is finding a class that works around your daughters/OH being home etc, bear in mind that most families are welcome together at training classes, so it might be something you all attend together if it's not convenient to do so otherwise.

But socialisation is pretty different from training anyway. As you seem to be doing you need to be exposing her to new environments, new people, new sights & smells. Walk along a busy traffic area, walk somewhere more quiet, meet people wearing hats, people with walking sticks, with prams...etc etc. The list is endless. As I've heard GSD's go through a second fear stage around adolescence, everything you do now will lay foundation to how she handles that second fear stage ( if she experiences one that is as not all do )


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## Guest (May 8, 2015)

There are many socialization protocols, but since your puppy is 12 weeks, the puppy rule of 12 popped to mind:
http://deesdogs.com/documents/thepuppysruleoftwelve.pdf


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Another good plan - http://www.thepuppyplan.com/


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

glad, just smile back and put it all behind you...surely they thought it over..maybe found out that it was your right to get a dog , so they have no reason to complain...but better make friends with Paisley...think..with a dog like her they are safer too in case of burglars etc..she will be alerted if anything was going on!


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Good to hear your neighbour chatted to you! That's how things between us and our neighbours improved, passing over post, making small talk about the weather etc etc.

Sounds like shes had a chance to rethink how she treated you before, I hope you can all work it out!


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## Guest (May 8, 2015)

The only way is up and people do learn from their mistakes! Hopefully all will end well and you will have nice neighbours again, and they will learn how lovely dogs are!


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## Guest (May 8, 2015)

ouesi said:


> There are many socialization protocols, but since your puppy is 12 weeks, the puppy rule of 12 popped to mind:
> http://deesdogs.com/documents/thepuppysruleoftwelve.pdf


That's a brilliant list Ouesi, thank you for posting it.


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

McKenzie said:


> That's a brilliant list Ouesi, thank you for posting it.


Yep; I've saved it too


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## WhippetyAmey (Mar 4, 2012)

Oh dear god. These posts are ridiculous.

I'm glad your neighbour doesn't seem as bad as you first thought, but I would suggest serious socialisation if Paisley is barking at people for attention - before it gets to your neighbour. 

She will very soon be going through her fear period and if she is anything like mine - she hit it hard and we had to spend a few days doing gentle things to bring her back to the confident pup. Slower with more reward.


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