# Breaking the rules with introducing a new kitten



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

Before I say any of this, I want to say that just because it worked for us doesn’t mean it will always work. Cats are very interesting creatures. It all depends on gender, age, temperament and environment; and even then you really never know how cats/kittens will respond. My main suggestion is going with your gut feeling, but taking any and all information you’ve searched for in mind as well. 

So my boyfriend moved in with me a few months ago and his 8 year old male DSH cat named Odie came with. Odie is an extremely docile, yet very social cat. He has lived in a house with multiple cats before, multiple dogs and a house that had a lot of people going in and out. Knowing this, we knew he would get lonely all by himself and would eventually need a friend to keep him busy, especially considering he is extremely energetic for his age. 

I will admit, getting Luna (our new female 12 week old kitten) was a complete spur of the moment thing. We happened to be at a Petsmart THREE DAYS AGO (Saturday afternoon) that had kittens up for adoption and happened to fall in love with one of them. (We knew we’d want a female one day so that Odie would feel less threatened by it) Luna is a VERY outgoing, spastic, extremely lovable kitten who came up to us right away in the store. She had lived her whole life with many other cats as well and was used to a lot of handling and a lot of attention. 

We read online that we MUST give them days separated and we MUST only give her one room at a time. Seeing as she was as social as she was, we decided to try something a little unorthodox. As soon as we arrived at home, we put Odie in a separate room for about an hour and a half and let Luna explore the rest of the apartment. Saying that she needed the space and took to the apartment instantly is an understatement. Every article I had read about kittens needing to be slowly introduced to a room would NOT have worked for her. Within about 15 minutes, she was acting as though she had lived with us for years. 

Seeing how AMAZINGLY well she took to her new environment and how friendly Odie is with other animals, we decided to try and see what would happen if we let them meet so early on. (Before anyone gets worried, we were there the entire time and we had every intention of separating them again if needed). At first, Odie was not pleased. His initial reaction was to hiss and growl which made her hiss back. Within about 10 minutes, she was in her own world and he was sulking under our desk. For the rest of that day Luna tried so hard to get Odie to play and Odie responded with hissing and the occasional batting her away with his paw. (This is EXTREMELY normal. It is how cats assert their dominance/him basically making it clear that he is king of the household) It was amazing to watch how much Luna respected him. She would play the “how close can I get to him before he hisses” game over and over but she would never push it too far. 

Believe it or not, Day 2 was almost a full 180. On Sunday morning, Odie hissed a few times but after that it was as though he didn’t care either way. She would play with us or her toys and he would patiently watch. He would even begin to try and play and then remind himself he needed to be dominant lol it was very entertaining to watch that battle go on inside his head. Nature(be dominant) vs Nurture (his inner kitten wanting to play with his new friend).

Day 3 (Monday) we went to work and left them alone and they did amazingly. We got home to them playing and chasing each other around as though they had known each other for weeks. 

It still amazes me that they have gone through this process in less than 3 days when every article says it takes weeks. I mainly wanted people to know that the rules can be broken with the right cats and the right environment. So trust your gut, trust your judgement in your cats and take the facts into consideration. For us this worked because we brought a FEMALE kitten home to a male adult cat, both cats are very social/non aggressive and they both have a huge want to play. Not everybody will have this same situation, but if you’re like I was and wondering if there are other ways, there are


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

:Locktopic
Duplicate thread.


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

What do you mean duplicate lol


----------



## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Raekab1989 said:


> What do you mean duplicate lol


2 threads on the same topic are unnecessary and confusing.
In response to your comments ,many years ago I introduced a small female kitten to the household with a mature neutered boy, no 'safe room' or gradual introductions. Luckily, after a few days of hissing and swiping from both of them they became comfortable with each other , never particularly close but tolerant.
The advice given on the forum regarding gradual introductions is sound and recommending best practise but I'm sure many people who don't use the forums have successful relationships between their cats. Of course some don't , and it's to avoid these unfortunate situations that the advice is directed.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hello @Raekab1989 1989 

Well, it's all about "horses for courses"  What works well in one situation, may not work well in another. Also introducing a kitten (or kittens) to an adult cat is far easier than introducing 2 adult cats to each other.

It certainly sounds like you have been lucky with your introductions.  Though to be fair, various things were in favour of a speedy, low stress intro from the start. e.g. Both cats are used to living with other cats; Odie is a very laid back kind of a boy; (adult cats can be very tolerant of kittens, some of them are quite nurturing and this includes adult males.), and Luna is evidently already pretty well-socialised in cat etiquette (as one would expect of a kitten of 12 to 13 weeks old). All these things were good omens.

I have in the past introduced two 13 week old kittens to a 15 yr old adult male, without any problems at all. But like your 8 yr old boy, my older boy was a sweet-natured, sociable, tolerant cat and he was glad of the company, having lost his sister companion to cancer 8 mths earlier. He and my male kitten became great pals and remained close until my old boy died aged 20.

Just to mention - cats as a species do not have a natural hierarchy and therefore there is no "dominant" cat (except perhaps in breeding households where the queens hold sway over all the other cats). But cats are territorial creatures and are highly protective of their resources. To Odie, Luna was an intruder into his territory and he was concerned she would take his resources from him. That is why he was upset and growled and hissed at Luna. Nothing to do with dominance, but to do with feeling under threat from Luna's intrusion.

Luckily, Odie being the gentle and generous cat he is, decided he is willing to share his resources with Luna. So that's why he stopped hissing at her.

However, you must ensure that you add lots more resources for the cats now there are 2 of them, so Odie does not feel he is having to give up too much of his resources to Luna.

So, 3 litter trays/litter boxes should be the bare minimum for 2 cats. Spread them around the home.

Several water bowls, spread around. Plenty of high up places on tops of cupboards etc (with a safe route up and down) for Odie to sit and snooze if he wants to get away from Luna. Lots of cat beds for them to swap around.

Cat scratch posts and pads - several to every room.

And each cat should have their own separate feeding space out of sight of each other, and preferably at different heights. No sharing of food bowls, no stealing of food. Buy Odie his own microchipped Surefeeder if necessary so he knows his food resources are safe from Luna.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SureFeed-5...sr=8-1&keywords=surefeed+microchip+cat+feeder

And if Odie has his special place to sleep at night, e.g. on your bed, do not expect him to share it with Luna until he decides he wants to (he may never want to). Luna will be fine settled in her own room at night.

Good luck, and photos would be nice,


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

My bad, I’m new and it said it didn’t post but evidently it did. And in response, it’s why I said it’s not for everyone and this probably worked for me for a variety of reasons. Just sharing my experience for anyone who is in a similar situation as mine and wants to know any other possible outcome.


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

And chillminx, we have 2 of everything. Litter boxes, beds, bowls, even toys. We have 3 towers (all of which have scratch boards), idk how many little balls and mice, and many many other toys. You’d probably look at our apartment and think there were more than 2 cats. Lol 
We DEFINITELY went about this as carefully as possible. We just had a gut feeling Odie would take to it well and that Luna could handle it. Lucky for us that was the case


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

chillminx said:


> Hello @Raekab1989 1989


Sorry here's some pictures. The one of them sleeping was last night so end of day 3. They have been cuddling ever since


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I am sure you went into it with a lot of thought and care.  It sounds as though your apartment has been well "catified".

Two litter boxes will probably be Ok for the moment while Luna is a kitten, but once she is an adult you should definitely provide *3 *large litter boxes. As I expect you will know, many cats like different litter boxes for peeing and pooing in.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Awww, Luna is such a cute, pretty kitten.  Lovely photo of them snoozing together. Wonderful.


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

Yeah, even though it was spur of the moment BUYING her, we'd been wanting a kitten for some time so we were ready. We plan to get another big litter box but we actually have a huge one for Odie that he's used to and he's always been fine with that one. So we plan on getting a big one for her and then keeping the small kitten sized one for if they want an option. Cats are definitely picky silly creatures lol
And yes we are beyond happy with our results. We only tried it because we could sense for our situation it could work and I'm glad we did (especially since our apartment doesn't have central air and the kitten would've been in a warmer room due to that)
Only issue we've come across are her nails. Odie got declawed by my boyfriends mom when he was a baby so he has no defense. Don't worry, we are just getting her some kitty claw caps so she doesn't scratch the heck out of his feet and face while playing lol @chillminx


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

Wow I really am horrible at this still. Evidently I replied wrong lol


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Oh no, poor Odie - I am so sorry to hear he has been declawed! 

As you may know declawing means amputating the cat's toes in order to stop the claws regrowing. It is a very cruel mutilation and I hope you would never in a million years think of doing such a thing to Luna when she is older. In the UK declawing is illegal and has been so for many years. Even before it was on the statute books, I never heard of anyone having their cat declawed when I was growing up 50 yrs ago. It would have been considered barbaric even in those days. I can't imagine any vet in the UK would have been willing to do it.

Claws play an extremely important part in a kitten's life. Claws help kittens hold on to slippery surfaces, and they act as a brake when the kitten plays active, vigorous games. Kitty Claw Caps are nasty things which interfere with this normal behaviour.

With their claws covered by caps a kitten can't climb safely, and if they try to, they will fall and could get badly hurt, even breaking a claw off completely as they cannot retract their claws to protect them. This would be very painful indeed!

Even the soft silicone type of Kitty Claw Caps change the gait of the kitten because they cannot retract their claws, so their legs and paws cannot adopt their natural position when they walk. The result is pain for kitty as well as great inconvenience.

The claw caps interfere with other normal cat behaviour such as scratching their scratch posts, which they do to keep their claws in good shape and to scent mark the post from the glands in their paw pads.

In addition, the poor kitten can't scratch itself normally and is not able to clean its ears and teeth using its claws.

The adhesive used to attach the caps can cause severe skin allergies and dermatitis, and lead to infection due to bacteria being trapped under the caps. .

So I wouldn't use Claw pads. I would ask the veterinary nurse to show you how to clip the very end off Luna's claws, just the little pointy tip, with a pair of pet nail clippers. And I would stop Luna playing roughly altogether with Odie seeing as the poor boy has no defences.

Instead play with Luna yourselves for about 3 hours a day and she will be too tired out to bother Odie with games.


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

@chillminx i have already spoken to a vet about the caps and when done right it actually has no negative effect on the kitten. I'm mainly wanting the caps until I can properly train her to use her scratching post. Right now she's too spastic lol so I don't plan on keeping the caps for many of my own reasons. At this moment and time they are just a protection for Odie until she's old enough to really be taught to use scratching posts etc

But as for declawing, TRUST me I don't need to be told why not to do it lol I never ever ever plan on declawing!! To me the ONLY reason it's EVER ok to even think to declaw is if for some reason (lets face it this would never be the case anyways) she was hostile towards my baby one day when I have kids. But again that's not gonna happen lol


----------



## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Cats have a much thicker skin than we have, so there is no need to get claw caps for Luna. Odie will be able to tell her when to stop even though the poor boy was declawed. Declawing is never a solution, not even when a cat is hostile towards a baby, there are always better ways to deal with that.
If you love Luna as much as you say in your thread in the gallery you won’t consider tempering with her claws in any way.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Raekab1989 said:


> Sorry here's some pictures. The one of them sleeping was last night so end of day 3. They have been cuddling ever since


Lovely pictures - those ears are amazing, almost the same size as her face! :Cat


----------



## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

I’m really sorry to be a pain but could you please refrain from using the word “spastic” in this manner? Your beautiful Luna is no doubt highly active, very busy and probably a little awkward and clumsy but the term “spastic” has some historical negative connotations in the UK referring to individuals with muscular/nervous disorders.

It is somewhat close to my heart.

Thank you!


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

SuboJvR said:


> I'm really sorry to be a pain but could you please refrain from using the word "spastic" in this manner? Your beautiful Luna is no doubt highly active, very busy and probably a little awkward and clumsy but the term "spastic" has some historical negative connotations in the UK referring to individuals with muscular/nervous disorders.
> 
> It is somewhat close to my heart.
> 
> Thank you!


You are not being a pain. I said nothing as I genuinely thought that maybe this cat was a wobbler (with cerebellar hypoplasia). I did think it odd that it was for sale in a pet shop. So what exactly is a 'spastic kitten'?


----------



## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Raekab1989 said:


> @chillminx i have already spoken to a vet about the caps and when done right it actually has no negative effect on the kitten. I'm mainly wanting the caps until I can properly train her to use her scratching post. Right now she's too spastic lol so I don't plan on keeping the caps for many of my own reasons. At this moment and time they are just a protection for Odie until she's old enough to really be taught to use scratching posts etc
> 
> But as for declawing, TRUST me I don't need to be told why not to do it lol I never ever ever plan on declawing!! To me the ONLY reason it's EVER ok to even think to declaw is if for some reason (lets face it this would never be the case anyways) she was hostile towards my baby one day when I have kids. But again that's not gonna happen lol


What country are you in? Just wondering.

I would also say leave the claw caps alone. Why not let a cat be a cat?


----------



## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

Calvine said:


> You are not being a pain. I said nothing as I genuinely thought that maybe this cat was a wobbler (with cerebellar hypoplasia). I did think it odd that it was for sale in a pet shop. So what exactly is a 'spastic kitten'?


In the US the term is used a lot more freely and can mean anything (I believe) from clumsy to hyperactive. So could be anything in between lol.

Being for sale in a store + declawed Odie suggests USA to me at least


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Raekab1989 said:


> @chillminx I'm mainly wanting the caps until I can properly train her to use her scratching post.


I don't see how she will ever learn to use a scratching post/pad wearing tips as she will have nothing to scratch with (they will be covered). It would be like you learning to play the guitar and you had to wear mittens.


----------



## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

SuboJvR said:


> Being for sale in a store + declawed Odie suggests USA to me at least


That's what I am assuming.


----------



## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

I believe ‘spastic’ in the States is used differently, but it certainly jars over here :-(

Just for balance...... Thirty years ago, when I knew an awful lot less than I know now, I got an oriental spotted tabby kitten from a lovey breeder, as company for my established male (neutered) bog-standard tabby, Oscar. 

My idea of an introduction was to open the carrier and say, “Look what we got you Oscar!” Can you imagine! Oscar went berserk! Fortunately he didn’t attack the kitten; he attacked (pregnant!) me. My previously placid Oscar who used to lie back in my arms like a baby would hide round corners to leap on me as I came past - I was often covered in blood! Fortunately the lovely breeder let me take the kitten back, and said that he would refund almost all my money provided that the mother accepted the kitten back which, fortunately, she did. 

Knowing what I know now my ignorance horrifies me.... Thank God, Oscar returned to his usual, loving self the minute the kitten was out of the door.


----------



## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks for mentioning the use of spastic - I was going to as it jarred as I read through. 

I truly hope you cats continue to get on with each other. Bear in mind that kittens grow up and that is when they may be seen as a real threat by another adult cat.


----------



## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

Blaise in Surrey said:


> I believe 'spastic' in the States is used differently, but it certainly jars over here :-(
> 
> Just for balance...... Thirty years ago, when I knew an awful lot less than I know now, I got an oriental spotted tabby kitten from a lovey breeder, as company for my established male (neutered) bog-standard tabby, Oscar.
> 
> ...


I think my parents had a similar experience to this. I heard stories of a kitten called Scamp they got as a companion for our soppy moggy Bubble. Scamp was returned the very next day for "terrorising" poor Bubble. This would've been in the late 80s I think, I've no memory of it!

Bubble herself was a kitten brought home to an elderly Squeak. They loved each other though. I suppose once cats get into their twilight years they are less likely to feel threatened just so long as it's obvious to them that their resources aren't going anywhere?


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I must say I had assumed Luna the kitten has a physical disability such as cerebral palsy from the description "spastic". This is the only use of the word I had come across have never heard any of my American relatives use it in any other sense when I've visited the USA. 

Just looked up the American slang dictionary and it seems "spaz" (or spastic) can be used these days as a colloquial term to mean "clumsy" or "badly co-ordinated" .


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Raekab1989 said:


> @chillminx i have already spoken to a vet about the caps and when done right it actually has no negative effect on the kitten. I'm mainly wanting the caps until I can properly train her to use her scratching post. Right now she's too spastic lol so I don't plan on keeping the caps for many of my own reasons. At this moment and time they are just a protection for Odie until she's old enough to really be taught to use scratching posts etc
> 
> But as for declawing, TRUST me I don't need to be told why not to do it lol I never ever ever plan on declawing!! To me the ONLY reason it's EVER ok to even think to declaw is if for some reason (lets face it this would never be the case anyways) she was hostile towards my baby one day when I have kids. But again that's not gonna happen lol


The claw caps are definitely not OK - I am afraid your vet has not done their research. I have already given you all the reasons why they are not OK in my previous post - did you not read them? 

Basically claw caps prevent the kitten being able to walk normally and to express their normal behaviour. There is masses of research on the subject of claw caps and their adverse effect on the kitten which I can post if you don't want to take my word for it.

If your kitten has no physical disability she will learn to use the scratch posts herself if you leave her to learn. She can't learn if she is wearing claw caps! :Banghead So if you put the caps on her you will be slowing down her development. Is that what you intend?


----------



## Aahlly (Sep 12, 2014)

I saw these claw caps advertised a while ago somewhere and tbh they seems bizarre to me. I know none of mine would tolerate them and they’re just unnecessary. I think different cultures (USA vs UK) have different opinions about animals and having lived both there and here I do see a divide. I feel as though in the US there is more of a culture of pets should not infringe on human lifestyles and here in the UK I see people being more flexible with their animals’ behaviours (I’m speaking EXTREMELY generally) so I just wonder if this is why there are many more of these types of tools used there. I don’t know. 

What I do know is if you get a cat you also get all the behaviours that go along with that cat like scratching. Trying to mask these behaviours with declawing or claw caps is both physically and mentally harmful to the cat. You cannot expect a cat to change it’s ways to suit you, you have to adapt to them. Provide plenty of opportunities for appropriate scratching, redirecting when the kitten is scratching somewhere you don’t want them to. Praise when they get it right. 

In seven years and with five cats in the house I have never had a piece of furniture ruined by the cats. The odd claw mark yes but nothing horrendous so it can be done without mutilating the cats or preventing them from expressing natural behaviours. You just have to be aware that you have a duty to provide a suitable environment. 

As for intros you were lucky OP. I had a situation where I was also lucky. My own little Luna slipped out of her safe room only a day or so into her arriving home, she and Loki laid eyes on each other and it was love at first sight. I’m not exaggerating. Never a hiss or a growl or a swipe between them. In fact, Luna saw Loki and began purring and rubbing her head against him. He had a moment of shock (I think) and then just took to her. They’re still in love four years later. I know that sounds odd and overly anthropomorphic but I have no other explanation for this instant bond they shared. I would love to understand this better as it was so strange and they continue to be absolutely joined at the hip. 

Cats are such interesting creatures. Every other intro has been slow and steady and although everyone gets along grand I know that this instant acceptance would never have worked for any of the others.


----------



## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@Raekab1989 
I found for my cat providing various scratching posts in different areas of the home worked well. My cat likes both upright and flat scratchers but some prefer one type. I would put toys on and play in the area of the scratchers to encourage their use. 
Look online to find out how to safely trim nails or ask a vet to show you. Clipping too far can hit the nerve and make your cat afraid of clipping. To get the cat used to the idea, I handle his paws from time to time when not clipping. I find I can get one or two clipped easily when he is napping and don't try to do all at once.
An alternative is to have a vet or grooming salon do the clipping for you.


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

Calvine said:


> Lovely pictures - those ears are amazing, almost the same size as her face! :Cat


That's literally one of my favorite things about her haha her tail is HUGE too. It's like both those things are too big for her body, so adorable ❤❤


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

SuboJvR said:


> I'm really sorry to be a pain but could you please refrain from using the word "spastic" in this manner? Your beautiful Luna is no doubt highly active, very busy and probably a little awkward and clumsy but the term "spastic" has some historical negative connotations in the UK referring to individuals with muscular/nervous disorders.
> 
> It is somewhat close to my heart.
> 
> Thank you!


I promise no harm with that word. I can see what you mean but spastic in the US just means hyper and clumsy lol but I understand where you're coming from and I'll take that into consideration ❤❤


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

Calvine said:


> You are not being a pain. I said nothing as I genuinely thought that maybe this cat was a wobbler (with cerebellar hypoplasia). I did think it odd that it was for sale in a pet shop. So what exactly is a 'spastic kitten'?


Oh wow, I just looked up what spastic actually means and I will start using the words clumsy and hyper instead @Calvine so you know too!!! One of those things where I've always seen it as a cute funny way to express a hyper silly creature. So that's my bad!!! I retract the words spastic


----------



## Raekab1989 (Jun 19, 2018)

Wow I never really knew the negative effects that caps could have on a kitten. I’ll admit, I am a new KITTEN owner so I’m new at the options for scratching etc. I was told my a friend to try caps but I will admit, after reading everyone’s feedback and doing some research of my own, I don’t like what caps do. Yes, IF put on 100% correctly and IF your cat doesn’t eat them, it seems fine but I don’t like taking chances. So before anyone gets mad and adds their fears about caps, know I ordered her ANOTHER (we have many already) amazing scratch post and I have already only clipped her nails and will learn to do that better once I get the proper powder JUST IN CASE I clip the quick on accident. So it’s a no for caps and a yes for scratch posts, training her to use them and staying on top of clipping her crazy long nails


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Good on you @Raekab1989 - you are a compassionate and caring cat 'parent'


----------



## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

Raekab1989 said:


> Wow I never really knew the negative effects that caps could have on a kitten. I'll admit, I am a new KITTEN owner so I'm new at the options for scratching etc. I was told my a friend to try caps but I will admit, after reading everyone's feedback and doing some research of my own, I don't like what caps do. Yes, IF put on 100% correctly and IF your cat doesn't eat them, it seems fine but I don't like taking chances. So before anyone gets mad and adds their fears about caps, know I ordered her ANOTHER (we have many already) amazing scratch post and I have already only clipped her nails and will learn to do that better once I get the proper powder JUST IN CASE I clip the quick on accident. So it's a no for caps and a yes for scratch posts, training her to use them and staying on top of clipping her crazy long nails


If you teach her how to use her nails properly, you won't have a problem I'm sure  but it does need some patience (and thick skin) when she's still a baby.

My Joey would leap up my legs when I was in the kitchen - preparing his food, usually. But also washing up which he also associated with him getting food (as I would be cleaning his bowls before or whilst he ate).

Eventually he figured out he didn't need to do it (after many squeals, scars, and stopping of food making!!!) and my legs are well recovered. He's also incredibly gentle during play or jumping as he gets more confident of his abilities. Jumping up onto someone's lap for example, he is more assured of himself that he can make the leap and steady himself without claws.

But the point is, I suppose, he needed to learn when he needs them and when not. And a cat without claws, or without claws they can use, is robbed of that learning opportunity so they could never learn to do better, if that makes sense.


----------



## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

Meant to add - some cats like scratching posts, some like pads they can use on the floor, some like both!

Mine likes both . He uses the post when he sees it (not often, the only place we have persuaded him to sit on the cat tree is the study when I’m in there), but he uses his horizontal pads a lot more.


----------

