# New John Lewis ad-DISGUSTING



## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

I have just picked this link up to the new John Lewis Christmas advert which at the very end depicts a dog in a kennel at the bottom of a garden in BLIZZARD conditions.

I honestly am completely speechless. This is more like an advert put out to show cruelty to animals, not an advertisement for a high profile retail company.

Believe me guys, you only need to watch the short video to see what I mean. I have just called John Lewis head office to lodge my complaint. Please let me know if you want their number.

Our Christmas 2010 TV advert - John Lewis


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

I laughed purely because the "fake family" care enough to give the dog a stocking but not let it in out of the snow.

My christmas's are christmas because my dogs are there sleeping at the bottom of the tree.

But I dont think it was ment as premoting cruelty. I think it was in some way suppost to be cute?


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

I looked at it as it was ,, an advert saying they did animals stockings to,, I know that animal was an actor,,, I don't think it was promoting animal cruilty at all,, sorry


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

I thought it was a horrible advert. The dog looked miserable and it really did look like a fundraiser for the RSPCA or something, not a feelgood Christmas ad at all.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

Nina said:


> I have just picked this link up to the new John Lewis Christmas advert which at the very end depicts a dog in a kennel at the bottom of a garden in BLIZZARD conditions.
> 
> I honestly am completely speechless. This is more like an advert put out to show cruelty to animals, not an advertisement for a high profile retail company.
> 
> ...


I shall email them later!


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## Val001 (Aug 25, 2010)

I've e-mailed them as don't like it at all


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Val001 said:


> I've e-mailed them as don't like it at all


What's the email address, think I might do the same.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

I have just telephoned, but shall email as well! Spoken to someone in customer services called John, after being put on hold he came back to assure me that no dogs were harmed in any way whilst making the commercial! And told him that was not the point and that their advert was portraying that is was acceptable to keep a dog in a kennel at the bottom of the garden! Not a caring christmas at all!

And! it seems I was NOT the first to call - they have had several calls!


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## Val001 (Aug 25, 2010)

Lulu's owner said:


> What's the email address, think I might do the same.


This is the one I used. it said on the site they would forward to the right person if you weren't sure which department your query relaed to.

[email protected]


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## Val001 (Aug 25, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I have just telephoned, but shall email as well! Spoken to someone in customer services called John, after being put on hold he came back to assure me that no dogs were harmed in any way whilst making the commercial! And told him that was not the point and that their advert was portraying that is was acceptable to keep a dog in a kennel at the bottom of the garden! Not a caring christmas at all!
> 
> And! it seems I was NOT the first to call - they have had several calls!


Well done DT

The fact that no animal was harmed is not the point. What is the point of the Dogs Trust message every year if this sort of thing is portrayed.


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

I only saw this last night and I dont like it either- even if that kennel has a separate sleeping area, in blizzard conditions, by the sea/lake (which would make it colder) the dog would still be too cold. Also their fence is fairly low and not overly secure, so the dog could jump it, or someone could come in and injure the dog.

I _know_ it's just an ad- but still, it's ridiculous to talk about people who are supposed to care so much that they leave their dog in an unsecured kennel in the middle of freezing weather!


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

piggybaker said:


> I looked at it as it was ,, an advert saying they did animals stockings to,, I know that animal was an actor,,, I don't think it was promoting animal cruilty at all,, sorry


No PB it was NOT promoting animal cruelty - but what it was promtoing was the idea that it is quite acceptable to keep your dog in a kennel irrespective of the weather providing you were good to it in other ways! Hardly a caring Christmas in my view!

Not a dig at you in anyway PB just how I viewed the ad!

DR


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Blizzard?:confused1: To be honest I think you're seeing things that aren't really there.
A blizzard is a violent snow storm accompanied by high winds and a visibility often too dangerous to drive through. 
In this video clip you can see the snowflakes are quite large, which means it's not very cold, and fall gently to the floor which means they're not driven.


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

I have just called John Lewis, and was asked to e-mail as they've had quite a few complaints. Where is the water for this dog, anyway? it might be inside the kennel, but it's not shown. Pople aren't so good at inferring information these days. The kennel might be heated, we don't know, there might be food and water inside the kennel, we don't know- so on the surface I would say it's neglectful behaviour on the part of the fake family owners.


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## hobo99 (Aug 18, 2008)

I dont like the advert , i think it is in very bad taste. . The fact that it is only an advert is neither here nor there.


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## Val001 (Aug 25, 2010)

Zaros said:


> Blizzard?:confused1: To be honest I think you're seeing things that aren't really there.
> A blizzard is a violent snow storm accompanied by high winds and a visibility often too dangerous to drive through.
> In this video clip you can see the snowflakes are quite large, which means it's not very cold, and fall gently to the floor which means they're not driven.


It is still no way to treat a family member. Would you put a child out there? No so why do it to your dog.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

Val001 said:


> It is still no way to treat a family member. Would you put a child out there? No so why do it to your dog.


Erm! Maybe


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

Just emailed them saying:

"Hello,
I am contacting you regarding the "caring christmas" advert that I have recently seen on TV. I am disgusted by this as for me a dog is part of christmas and it isnt right to keep a dog in a kennel at the end of a garden, even more so in snow conditions. I understand that this is a advert and not "real" but for many dogs every year this is "real" and you publishing it on a advert is only going to encourage people that its okay to do that. Its not. Dogs are pets that love humans and want to be included in a family not dumped outside.

I feel that this advert could cause more harm than good. For me the true meaning of christmas is family, food and the dogs sleeping under the tree.
Thank you.
Emma"


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## Viki (Jul 16, 2009)

We've just made a blog psot about the ad:
John Lewis Christmas Ad gets a frosty reception



> We think that on this occasion the advertising agency were simply trying to convey the sense of giving to all at Christmas, including your pets, so the idea of the stocking being tied above the kennel for the dog communicates this. Unfortunately the execution of the idea does carry the negative suggestion that the dog is being left out in the cold.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> No PB it was NOT promoting animal cruelty - but what it was promtoing was the idea that it is quite acceptable to keep your dog in a kennel irrespective of the weather providing you were good to it in other ways! Hardly a caring Christmas in my view!
> 
> Not a dig at you in anyway PB just how I viewed the ad!
> 
> DR


To be honest I had not looked at it in the way you guys looked at it only it was a bit of a crap add which had a dog in a kennel,, I suppose now it has been taken apart and pointed out during the thread its not really exceptable,


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## Jackie99 (Mar 5, 2010)

Totally agree, I first saw it last night and wondered what the little lad was going outside with the stocking for. Was sad to see the dog in the deep freezing snow at the bottom of the garden in a wooden battered looking kennel! Of course I realise it isn't real and what not but I wouldn't class that as a great advert with a nice vibe about it at all.
What is the email so I can express my opinion on the advert?


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

I can see why people are getting mad but...

Its a dog actor, a fake family, probably fake snow. I think they were more promoting the fact that Christmas is a time of giving. It was meant to be cute and make people go "Awhh" I generally don't think that people watching it will go "OMG if we get a dog we can keep it outside 'cause John Lewis did!" If they are that way inclined they will be that way inclined John Lewis advert or not. Give society some credit.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

Patterdale_lover said:


> I can see why people are getting mad but...
> 
> Its a dog actor, a fake family, probably fake snow. I think they were more promoting the fact that Christmas is a time of giving. It was meant to be cute and make people go "Awhh" I generally don't think that people watching it will go "OMG if we get a dog we can keep it outside 'cause John Lewis did!" If they are that way inclined they will be that way inclined John Lewis advert or not. Give society some credit.


LOL you need to walk down a street near me,, I am not so sure:thumbup:


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## Val001 (Aug 25, 2010)

We all know its not real but you have to remember that some people are very impressionable and you don't need an advert implying that it is ok to keep a dog in a kennel in the garden in freezing cold weather.

Give society credit?????? Wouldn't put money on it thats for sure.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Val001 said:


> This is the one I used. it said on the site they would forward to the right person if you weren't sure which department your query relaed to.
> 
> [email protected]


Thanks for this. I emailed them to say:

"As a regular John Lewis customer I was distressed to see your new advertisement, depicting a pet dog outdoors in the snow with only a kennel for shelter. It reminded me more of an RSPCA anti-cruelty fundraiser than a feelgood Christmas shopping one. It certainly does not enhance my opinion of John Lewis, a company which I have respected in the past for its ethical stance on retailing.

I hope that you will rethink this advertisement and perhaps remove the scene featuring the poor dog. (I realise of course that no animal was harmed in the making of the ad but that is not the point: my objection is that you are promoting animal abuse)."

It reminded me of my childhood when my father insisted on keeping our poor dog outdoors in a kennel and I used to go down the garden and keep him company or look out of the window at him, brought back very sad memories to me, not the Christmas spirit at all. That was the late 1950s/early 1960s and we ought to have moved on from then.


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## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

I'll email and have a whinge at them too. The ending was horrible actually compared to the rest of the ad. If they want you to finish on a sinking feeling it certainly works.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Val001 said:


> We all know its not real but you have to remember that some people are very impressionable and you don't need an advert implying that it is ok to keep a dog in a kennel in the garden in freezing cold weather.
> 
> Give society credit?????? Wouldn't put money on it thats for sure.


You're so right there. My husband's next door neighbours leave their pom out in all weathers, barking its little head off till midnight in the freezing cold (without even a kennel, just one of those fabric canopy things over the top of the patio). They tell me I'm a nutter when I say it's not right and this sort of ad will just confirm them in their views.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Val001 said:


> We all know its not real but you have to remember that some people are very impressionable and you don't need an advert implying that it is ok to keep a dog in a kennel in the garden in freezing cold weather.
> 
> Give society credit?????? Wouldn't put money on it thats for sure.


my mate and uncle already do this, admittedly they do own malamutes.


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## jo1234 (Mar 4, 2010)

It's only an advert! It was probably filmed in summer with fake snow and fans to create wind!
Yes, the dog is in a kennel at the bottom of a garden but I hardly think a John Lewis advert is going to influence someone into thinking "oh it's ok to keep my dog outside in the snow this winter!"
Not everything you see on tv is real!


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

jo1234 said:


> It's only an advert! It was probably filmed in summer with fake snow and fans to create wind!
> Yes, the dog is in a kennel at the bottom of a garden but I hardly think a John Lewis advert is going to influence someone into thinking "oh it's ok to keep my dog outside in the snow this winter!"
> Not everything you see on tv is real!


what you mean the vase on my tv isn't real?? wow the power of telly eh?


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## jo1234 (Mar 4, 2010)

owieprone said:


> what you mean the vase on my tv isn't real?? wow the power of telly eh?


Well they do say that watching too much tv can cause hallucinations!!


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

maybe i have 3d telly and don't know it?


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

DoubleTrouble said:


> No PB it was NOT promoting animal cruelty - but what it was promtoing was the idea that it is quite acceptable to keep your dog in a kennel irrespective of the weather providing you were good to it in other ways! Hardly a caring Christmas in my view!
> 
> Not a dig at you in anyway PB just how I viewed the ad!
> 
> DR


Exactly.

I do believe that the RSPCA would have grounds to prosecute if they found a dog living in these conditions.

I have also complained to the standards advertising committee, and the woman I spoke to at John Lewis agreed that they had received many calls and were looking into it.

Twitter is awash with complaint's about this ad, hence it came to my attention. As for the fact that the dog was not harmed making this adverts, well nobody is disputing this, but the advert is saying that it is acceptable for an animal to be living in these conditions, so what kind of message is this sending out


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## shibby (Oct 3, 2010)

It reminded me of the Dogs Trust adverts, were the dog is waiting to be rescued! I don't know many dog owners who'd care enough to buy a stocking for their dogs but would leave them in the freezing cold...


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Val001 said:


> It is still no way to treat a family member. Would you put a child out there? No so why do it to your dog.


If you walked by our house at any point during the long winter months you would find that there are always two rather large dogs out in temperatures of, sometimes, minus 40C. Theres no water bowl, for obvious reasons, and to the onlooker it might even appear evident that they are also without shelter. What the onlooker probably wouldnt notice is how the house has been designed so that the dogs have access to the property 24 hours everyday. They choose to be outdoors just as most dogs would also choose to be outdoors if they had the same opportunity.
I take it because we see dogs being kept outdoors it is routinely assumed to be an act of cruelty and the owners of those said dogs to be somewhat indifferent to animals?


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

wolfhounds as sighthounds may feel the cold more- I'm not certain about wolfhounds, but greyhonds, lurchers and whippets certainly feel the cold and suffer in it hugely. I don't think everyone who keeps thier dogs outside in winter is cruel- kennels can be constructed with heating, plenty of space and weatherproof kennel area- and your dogs having access to the house but choosing to stay outside is not cruel at all either- but like I commented before, while we don't know that the dog is being utside of it's own violition, we also cannot rule out that the dog has no other option than to be outside.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

There is a common misconception that dogs will be fine if left outside. 

All pets need adequate shelter from the elements and insulation against cold and extreme weather condtions. No pet should not be left outside for long periods in freezing weather as depicted in the advert. Like us they can also suffer from hypothermia and frostbite. Both the young and senior pets are especially at risk. 

The advert is portraying giving at Christmas and yet it ends showing a dog outside in freezing temperatures.

Twitter and facebook are awash with complaints and hopefully this ad will be pulled.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I totally agree it doesnt reflect a happy Christmas however Ive gotta say my dog will probably spend many hours over the winter either in her kennel or laid in the snow, she does every year  Outside dogs *are not *always unhappy dogs  I must say the poor dog in the advert didnt look impressed tho .


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

I srsly dont see the issue :confused1: I actually like the advert.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Disgusting - I've just e-mailed them


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## alaun (Jul 21, 2009)

AmberNero said:


> wolfhounds as sighthounds may feel the cold more- I'm not certain about wolfhounds, but greyhonds, lurchers and whippets certainly feel the cold and suffer in it hugely. I don't think everyone who keeps thier dogs outside in winter is cruel- kennels can be constructed with heating, plenty of space and weatherproof kennel area- and your dogs having access to the house but choosing to stay outside is not cruel at all either- but like I commented before, while we don't know that the dog is being utside of it's own violition, we also cannot rule out that the dog has no other option than to be outside.


Most wolfies would definitely prefer to be sat directly in front of the fire. Ours takes one look at cold wet weather and is unimpressed. Their fur may look woolly but its not great at keeping the wet out and they seem to stay wet for ages.


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> I totally agree it doesnt reflect a happy Christmas however Ive gotta say my dog will probably spend many hours over the winter either in her kennel or laid in the snow, she does every year  _Outside dogs *are not *always unhappy dogs_  I must say the poor dog in the advert didnt look impressed tho .


our ben (RIP) stayed outside by choice, so he got built a lovely warm, insulated kennel, which is now a chicken house cause suki stays in


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

alaun said:


> Most wolfies would definitely prefer to be sat directly in front of the fire. Ours takes one look at cold wet weather and is unimpressed. Their fur may look woolly but its not great at keeping the wet out and they seem to stay wet for ages.


I thought that would be the case but didn't want to say so definitely as they're not my 'knowledge' breed and I didn't want to spout out falseties in case I was wrong- ta for letting me know!


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## Sandysmum (Sep 18, 2010)

I sent an email saying the ad was sending out the wrong message and that a dog is considered part of the family and wouldn't be left out in those conditions.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

gosh i never even noticed this in the advert!

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's disgusting or cruel and i'm going to risk life and limb here by saying I think the reaction to it has been slightly OTT but I can see where you are all coming from. It is a very odd way to depict a happy family christmas - the dog is usually shown in front of the fire or playing fetch with snowballs in the garden with their family, not chained up down the bottom of the garden having to just look in on all the fun going on inside.

I think it was just badly thought out, I don't think there were any cruel intentions and if John Lewis are as good and ethical a company as people say then hopefully they will realise this and edit the scene out of the advert.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi Nina, I wasn't happy about the ad either!


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

just to ad my two penneth 

There are dogs which are perfectly fine outside, malamutes being one of them.

I remember when i was young and still at home someone phoned the SSPCA because our malamute was out in the back garden from 9pm till 5am when my da would come home from nightshift and take him straight out for a few miles.
We had 1/4 of an acre back garden plus the side garden all secured with 7ft fencing so he had plenty of room. 
He also had a large bed, 2quilts and a water bowl in a shed big enough for 2 double beds if he wanted to get out of the wind and numerous toys! What terrible conditions eh?

The guy came from the SSPCA had a look about and said he rarely saw such a happy dog and the woman who reported us still growled at us :lol:
The muppet made the mistake of talking to my sister at the school gates about it not knowing we were related

It was -4 last night and Shorty would still much rather lie out the back garden than be in the house, but she has is on a tie out when she is out there with no shelter so i wouldnt allow it.
There is nothing wrong with keeping a dog outside provided they are well cared for imo, although i couldnt leave them outside all day as id feel horrid


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Dogs can and do die in freezing conditions, especially the young and elderly. Despite their fur coats domesticated dogs depend on us for protection from elements such as freezing temperatures.

Veterinary advice states that you should never leave your pets outdoors when the temperature drops below freezing. This advert is based around severe and freezing weather conditions and there are people who would deem this to be acceptable.

There is really NO question that this advert was ill thought out and I hope the ending will be cut before being aired again.


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## sweetice2010 (Aug 13, 2010)

I think its a fine line between it I have emailed them too but at the same time i see where op is coming from that if they are in a heated room etc outside then theres not really an issue assuming its warm and blankets are available and food water etc but not for long periods of time


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Verbatim said:


> gosh i never even noticed this in the advert!
> 
> I wouldn't go as far as to say it's disgusting or cruel and i'm going to risk life and limb here by saying I think the reaction to it has been slightly OTT but I can see where you are all coming from. It is a very odd way to depict a happy family christmas - the dog is usually shown in front of the fire or playing fetch with snowballs in the garden with their family, not chained up down the bottom of the garden having to just look in on all the fun going on inside.
> 
> I think it was just badly thought out, I don't think there were any cruel intentions and if John Lewis are as good and ethical a company as people say then hopefully they will realise this and edit the scene out of the advert.


Pretty much my reaction when I saw it as well.


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

I think that John Lewis were so busy creating the ideal advertisment that they overlooked the fact that it appeared the dog was neglected to dog lovers.  I don't see it as disgusting, appalling or cruel because it isn't REAL. We should be using this energy for REAl cases rather than an advertisment.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

JohnMorris said:


> I think that John Lewis were so busy creating the ideal advertisment that they overlooked the fact that it appeared the dog was neglected to dog lovers. I don't see it as disgusting, appalling or cruel because it isn't REAL. We should be using this energy for REAl cases rather than an advertisment.


No, I totally disagree there. I know that John Lewis's sensible, middle-class customers won't decide to chain the dog down the garden in the snow and ice after viewing this ad, but the subliminal message that is being put across to more irresponsible types is that if John Lewis condone this behaviour, then it must be OK. Some of them don't need a lot of encouragement to behave badly.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I know that it's only an ad. and that some dogs like to be out in the cold, Amber loved lying out in the frost as long as the sun was out, but this gives the impression that is OK to leave your dog out in a kennel in the cold and bad weather, and some idiots will think it's fine to leave any dog out in the cold.  

Yes I have sent, John Lewis an e-mail about the ad.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

JohnMorris said:


> I think that John Lewis were so busy creating the ideal advertisment that they overlooked the fact that it appeared the dog was neglected to dog lovers. I don't see it as disgusting, appalling or cruel because it isn't REAL. We should be using this energy for REAl cases rather than an advertisment.


Hurrah for common bloody sense! It's an advert promoting sales and nothing more!
I don't suppose for one instant they'd give a toss if dad was abusing his kids or knocking his wife about just as long as they were all buying their merchandise.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

I received this response from John Lewis as follows:

_"Thank you for taking the time to feedback your concerns about our Christmas advertisement. I'm sorry that you have been disappointed with certain aspects of it's content as this was certainly not our intention.

The inclusion of a dog at the end of our Christmas advert is there to inject a feeling of the importance of pets in a family and show how much they are an integral part of Christmas festivities. The kennel has been lovingly decorated with fairy lights and the boy hanging up the special 'doggy' stocking, is sharing a private Christmas moment with his dog. Many dogs have outside kennels, and that does not mean, nor do we intend to imply, that they don't spend most of their time in the house. Rannoch is a very well cared for dog and his owner, who is also his breeder, is more than happy with the way her pet has been portrayed on screen.

Please be assured that we have taken on board your concerns, and hope that this response has gone some way towards explaining the message that we are attempting to portray."

_To which I replied:
_
"Thank you for your prompt response to my concerns about your advertisement. I realise that you did not deliberately intend to promote cruelty to animals.

However, the ad brings back very sad memories to me of a beloved childhood dog who was kept outside in all weathers and not allowed in the house. This was considered quite normal circa 1960 and I used to go down the garden and sit with him in the rain and the snow sometimes. I hate to think that your advert will help convince a new generation of dog owners that it is suitable way to treat a pet dog (and I am obviously not referring to dog-owning middle class shoppers at John Lewis). Even today I am aware of dogs that are left outside, unhappy and barking and I don't approve of adverts appearing to condone this neglect, irrespective of the fact that Rannoch is well cared for."_

Their follow up reply:
_
"Thank you for your further comments and I do understand your personal concerns.

I would like to reassure you that the issues you have raised have been taken on board and we do value the feedback you have given us." _

I think it's worthwhile for anyone else who hates the ad also to get in touch with them.


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

Not being funny, but its an advert. The dog doesnt actually live in a kennel (I actually know the dog)

What next - Santa's raindeer are over-worked???

because a dog lives in a kennel doesnt mean it is neglected!!??


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Lulu's owner said:


> No, I totally disagree there. I know that John Lewis's sensible, middle-class customers won't decide to chain the dog down the garden in the snow and ice after viewing this ad, but the subliminal message that is being put across to more irresponsible types is that if John Lewis condone this behaviour, then it must be OK. Some of them don't need a lot of encouragement to behave badly.


I agree that advertising and television is a very powerful medium.
If all the young men in soaps and adverts were to start smoking on screen tomorrow I would not be surprised if there was an increase in smoking amongst young men up and down the country, despite the obvious health risks.

Dogs bought and then left in back gardens in kennels and being unattended by their families is a problem and perhaps it was merely a reflection of how things are going and how it is now again acceptable to leave the dog outside in the cold whilst the family get on with being a family, even at Xmas.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Zaros said:


> Hurrah for common bloody sense! Its an advert promoting sales and nothing more!
> I don't suppose for one instant they'd give a toss if dad was abusing his kids or knocking his wife about just as long as they were all buying their merchandise.


Well, it's pretty counterproductive as an ad if it puts loads of people off shopping there. John Lewis are usually very careful about the image they portray.


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## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

But it is important for their marketing department to receive feedback about whether people like the ad is it not? That way they will know in future times what goes down well with potential customers and what doesn't. What's wrong with giving feedback? There isn't an awful lot of energy put into writing a simple email.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Not being funny, but if people seriously think that because an advert shows it, they will leave their dog out in the cold then they've got very, very big issues.

I see all sorts of other stuff on TV, doesn't make me want to go and do it.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Horse and Hound said:


> Not being funny, but if people seriously think that because an advert shows it, they will leave their dog out in the cold then they've got very, very big issues.
> 
> I see all sorts of other stuff on TV, doesn't make me want to go and do it.


Some people already do it. My husband's next door neighbours left their dog out in the snow till midnight every night last winter, and it was very unhappy. It doesn't help persuade people like them that this is unacceptable behaviour for John Lewis to show it as part of a happy family Christmas.


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

Lulu's owner said:


> Some people already do it. My husband's next door neighbours left their dog out in the snow till midnight every night last winter, and it was very unhappy. It doesn't help persuade people like them that this is unacceptable behaviour for John Lewis to show it as part of a happy family Christmas.


My neighbour kennels his dog, but it had a heated mat and proper kennel that protects it from the elements. Just because its outside doesnt mean its unhappy. Did you see the kennels, were they not proper ones? If not why didnt you report him?


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I have watched the advert and whilst I dont think JL have intentionally been cruel - I think the message they are trying to get across should have been thought out a bit more - instead of having the dog outside they could have had where the little boy puts the dogs stocking in his basket ready for him by the fire or in the kitchen etc - I get the message but the delivery is off.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm not being funny...

Well because I'm not being funny


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## kaz_f (Mar 8, 2009)

suzy93074 said:


> I have watched the advert and whilst I dont think JL have intentionally been cruel - I think the message they are trying to get across should have been thought out a bit more - instead of having the dog outside they could have had where the little boy puts the dogs stocking in his basket ready for him by the fire or in the kitchen etc - I get the message but the delivery is off.


I agree Suzy, and I think they need to know that it doesn't give everybody the warm glow they obviously thought it would. If I were in their marketing department (not that I ever would be) I would be grateful for feedback good or bad.


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## piggybaker (Feb 10, 2009)

you know I have not seen this add on TV yet.


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

piggybaker said:


> you know I have not seen this add on TV yet.


I dont think you will now, im guessing Rannoch has had his day


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

kaz_f said:


> I agree Suzy, and I think they need to know that it doesn't give everybody the warm glow they obviously thought it would. If I were in their marketing department (not that I ever would be) I would be grateful for feedback good or bad.


Yep agree


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Phoenix&Charlie'sMum said:


> I dont think you will now, im guessing Rannoch has had his day


Whether you like it or not people have different opinions and they have every right to express them. You knowing the dog is not going to change their minds.

Like Kaz said they will be happy to take on board all feedback. Good AND bad.


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Whether you like it or not people have different opinions and they have every right to express them. You knowing the dog is not going to change their minds.
> 
> Like Kaz said they will be happy to take on board all feedback. Good AND bad.


I have never said anyone shouldnt express their own opinions.

Am i not allowed to express my opinion that his acting career is ending????


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Of course you can but it seems to me if we don't have the same opinion then we should lump it!

End of career? Honestly?


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Of course you can but it seems to me if we don't have the same opinion then we should lump it!
> 
> End of career? Honestly?


I have never said anything of that. I cant help it if you dont like my comments.

So your telling me that if one of your pets got offered to do an advert, then everyone accuses you of abusing your dog, that you wouldnt feel a bit upset?? Therefore end of his career.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm sorry but I find it ridiculous how people say "The dog looked so unhappy and sad" ITS FAKE! :eek6: FAKE SNOW FAKE PEOPLE FAKE KENNEL. The dog WASN'T cold, ITS FAKE SNOW and FAKE WIND. So for people to say the dog actually felt something is ridiculous, it was probably say there for 10 minutes tops, before it was whisked off home to a lovely house! Jeeze, sorry but I find the reaction SO OTT. Shoot me down all you want but I do.

My dogs live in kennels. Yes they are insulated yes they have heating but they LIVE outside all year round. Shooting season my dogs are out hunting getting wet and soaked in cold temperatures, heck, they're all out today on a shoot and guess what THEY LOVE IT. I understand how it can be upsetting to some etc. But seriously, it seems like molly coddling some dogs.


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

Patterdale_lover said:


> I'm sorry but I find it ridiculous how people say "The dog looked so unhappy and sad" ITS FAKE! :eek6: FAKE SNOW FAKE PEOPLE FAKE KENNEL. The dog WASN'T cold, ITS FAKE SNOW and FAKE WIND. So for people to say the dog actually felt something is ridiculous, it was probably say there for 10 minutes tops, before it was whisked off home to a lovely house! Jeeze, sorry but I find the reaction SO OTT. Shoot me down all you want but I do.
> 
> My dogs live in kennels. Yes they are insulated yes they have heating but they LIVE outside all year round. Shooting season my dogs are out hunting getting wet and soaked in cold temperatures, heck, they're all out today on a shoot and guess what THEY LOVE IT. I understand how it can be upsetting to some etc. But seriously, it seems like molly coddling some dogs.


If I actually thought the dog 'acting' in the advert was suffering I'd deserve such a reply! :lol: But I don't think it was mistreated- of course the dog used in the ad was well-cared for, thats not what eveyone is saying here, no one has said that all dogs kept outside are mistreated- your kennels, for instance, sound like a nice place to stay, and if your dogs are used to is, happy, and comfortable, then there's no prob- BUT the dog in the ad doesn't have what looks like a well-made, heated kennel- and it's not giving off a caring message.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

AmberNero said:


> If I actually thought the dog 'acting' in the advert was suffering I'd deserve such a reply! :lol: But I don't- of course the dog used in the ad was well-cared for, thats not what eveyone is saying here, and also, no one has said that all dogs kept outside are mistreated- your kennels, for instance, sound like a nice place to stay, and if your dogs are used to is, happy, and comfortable, then there's no prob- BUT the dog in the ad doesn't have what looks like a well-made, heated kennel- and it's not giving off a caring message.


No i know this, and that why I see where everyone is coming from. But it's silly to think that people will be influenced by the advert to keep their animals in such ways, if they are that way inclined they will do it anyway. Just because you see something advertised you don't go out and get it, if you see an M&M talking on TV you don't expect to open the packet and your sweets start talking to you :lol: I'm just saying jeeze give people some credit.


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

Patterdale_lover said:


> No i know this, and that why I see where everyone is coming from. But it's silly to think that people will be influenced by the advert to keep their animals in such ways, if they are that way inclined they will do it anyway. Just because you see something advertised you don't go out and get it, if you see an M&M talking on TV you don't expect to open the packet and your sweets start talking to you :lol: I'm just saying jeeze give people some credit.


I think I'd have a heart attack if my food started talking to me - like the fish fingers ad- can you imagine finding a polar bear chatting away in a fridge? :lol:


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

AmberNero said:


> I think I'd have a heart attack if my food started talking to me - like the fish fingers ad- can you imagine finding a polar bear chatting away in a fridge? :lol:


Hahaha :lol: Or you had the voice over on M&S everytime you had a mouthful of food :arf:


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Patterdale_lover said:


> No i know this, and that why I see where everyone is coming from. But it's silly to think that people will be influenced by the advert to keep their animals in such ways, if they are that way inclined they will do it anyway. Just because you see something advertised you don't go out and get it, if you see an M&M talking on TV you don't expect to open the packet and your sweets start talking to you :lol: I'm just saying jeeze give people some credit.


totally agree..ott, it's just an ad, people read far too much into tv/ad 'settings' instead of concentrating on the point of the ad itself.. or ignoring it completely.

i would find it particularly funny if my m&m's told me to get in the bowl and chucked other food stuffs at me though...


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

owieprone said:


> totally agree..ott, it's just an ad, people read far too much into tv/ad 'settings' instead of concentrating on the point of the ad itself.. or ignoring it completely.
> 
> i would find it particularly funny if my m&m's told me to get in the bowl and chucked other food stuffs at me though...


Hahah Food fight!!


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## johnlewisdog-lovesxmas (Nov 16, 2010)

Come on guys i love christmas like the next dog, but to be fair the family are a grumpy lot and i like it in my doggy grotto. Plus the snow was fake as the ad was shot in summer.
:thumbup:


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Phoenix&Charlie'sMum said:


> My neighbour kennels his dog, but it had a heated mat and proper kennel that protects it from the elements. Just because its outside doesnt mean its unhappy. Did you see the kennels, were they not proper ones? If not why didnt you report him?


The dog hasn't got a kennel. It is a pomeranian and it is very unhappy when it is out for the best part of the day and it barks incessantly to be let in. It shelters under one of those fabric canopy things that people put in the garden in the summer (is it called a gazebo or something?).

I've had more than one row with the owners and threatened to report them to the RSPCA. However, people on this forum have told me that as the dog is well fed and groomed the RSPCA really won't be interested. I don't live in London myself and my husband doesn't want me to put him in a vulnerable position regarding these very aggressive and unpleasant people, so I have to respect his views, especially as I think I will be creating trouble for my husband without being able to help the dog.

I have already had a battle with them over major work they did without building regulations consent or going through the proper procedures with us as adjoining owners and they managed to run rings round me, telling the Council that it had been done twenty years previously. It suited the Council to believe them even though I had photographic proof of my case. So what chance would I, as a person who visits for a few days a month, stand against them when they tell the RSPCA that they never let the dog out for more than five minutes?


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

Lulu's owner said:


> The dog hasn't got a kennel. It is a pomeranian and it is very unhappy when it is out for the best part of the day and it barks incessantly to be let in. It shelters under one of those fabric canopy things that people put in the garden in the summer (is it called a gazebo or something?).
> 
> I've had more than one row with the owners and threatened to report them to the RSPCA. However, people on this forum have told me that as the dog is well fed and groomed the RSPCA really won't be interested. I don't live in London myself and my husband doesn't want me to put him in a vulnerable position regarding these very aggressive and unpleasant people, so I have to respect his views, especially as I think I will be creating trouble for my husband without being able to help the dog.
> 
> I have already had a battle with them over major work they did without building regulations consent or going through the proper procedures with us as adjoining owners and they managed to run rings round me, telling the Council that it had been done twenty years previously. It suited the Council to believe them even though I had photographic proof of my case. So what chance would I, as a person who visits for a few days a month, stand against them when they tell the RSPCA that they never let the dog out for more than five minutes?


That doesnt sound nice. Maybe not getting the RSPCA involved ( as they probably wouldnt do anything anyways) but what about the local dog warden?

Not saying I dont believe you, but I know that when I let my dogs out in the garden Charlie barks for the hell of it, because hes not allowed to bark in house, so he does it outside. I can stand there with the door wide open and he will still bark at the clouds.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Phoenix&Charlie'sMum said:


> I have never said anything of that. I cant help it if you dont like my comments.
> 
> So your telling me that if one of your pets got offered to do an advert, then everyone accuses you of abusing your dog, that you wouldnt feel a bit upset?? Therefore end of his career.


No one is actually accusing Rannoch's owner of abusing him. We're all very well aware that he's acting and not coming to any harm whatsoever. It's the message that's being conveyed by the advert that troubles some of us, not Rannoch's personal wellbeing. Hopefully he will go on to have a less controversial acting career in the future.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Phoenix&Charlie'sMum said:


> That doesnt sound nice. Maybe not getting the RSPCA involved ( as they probably wouldnt do anything anyways) but what about the local dog warden?
> 
> Not saying I dont believe you, but I know that when I let my dogs out in the garden Charlie barks for the hell of it, because hes not allowed to bark in house, so he does it outside. I can stand there with the door wide open and he will still bark at the clouds.


Maybe I should, it's just so hard doing battle with these people and the young woman did threaten to beat me up the last time I raised the issue of the dog with them. I have a yappy little yorkie and I can recognise when a dog is being exuberant and when it's in distress. This poor creature is barking incessantly for literally hours, barely stopping to take breath sometimes, and leaping up at the patio doors endlessly to try and get someone's attention to let him or her in. Even in the summer it is no way to treat a dog but you're right, if it happens this winter and I am around I should video it over the course of the day and contact the dog warden.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

Lulu's owner said:


> No one is actually accusing Rannoch's owner of abusing him. We're all very well aware that he's acting and not coming to any harm whatsoever. It's the message that's being conveyed by the advert that troubles some of us, not Rannoch's personal wellbeing. Hopefully he will go on to have a less controversial acting career in the future.


This is the whole point and why animal lovers have been objecting in their droves. It is the message that John Lewis are portraying.

Has anyone noticed that there is a sponsored ad for them at the bottom of pet forum


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Nina said:


> Has anyone noticed that there is a sponsored ad for them at the bottom of pet forum


Obviously there's no such thing as bad publicity!


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## MissG (Apr 18, 2008)

I think you are over reacting.

For one, it's not real life.

For 2, the snow is probably CGI.

For 3, the dog has shelter.

Now I am not saying that it's OK for anyone to leave their dog outside for prolonged periods of time in snowy conditions. But what I do think is that there is nothing wrong with that advert.

People say the British are the best complainers and moaners.....


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

can't believe this is still being debated. from someone who's done an ad/marketing module while studying journalism:

an ad is a 'snapshot' of 'life' it is not the full story, if it was it'd be a soap.

you see the dog outside for a few seconds, you complainers have chosen to see this as hours or days and/or a daily occurence no matter what the weather or time of day.

they're showing 'snow' cos it's helping to set the scene.

ad's are not meant to be taken as seen, they are meant to be interpreted by the watcher to be positive about the product, showing the dog apparently left in the 'blizzard' (i've not seen the add so dunno how true this description is) is to bring about an 'AW' and 'don't forget your pets' factor into the ad.

It is not supposed to show or imply any cruelty to animals in anyway, it is purely to keep your interest in the ad and give you another scene to look at and things to think about while remembering what the product is for the ad you are watching. they have to put life-like feel to the ad to make it meaningful and easily remembered to their target audience.

saying that they are portraying/imply and therefore condoning pet cruelty is actually slander/liable. john lewis are not responsible for certain people looking at their ad and thinking 'oh yes i must leave the dog out in the snow during crimbo'. They expect viewers to have a modecum of common sense and to realise that this is not real life it is an depiction of someones imaginative way of getting you to remember that this product is available and that you can get it from whatever shop, for however much. 

end of.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

owieprone said:


> ad's are not meant to be taken as seen, they are meant to be interpreted by the watcher to be positive about the product.


So, marks out of ten then, how successful do you think this ad has been in promoting goodwill towards John Lewis's products among the dogloving fraternity?


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Lulu's owner said:


> So, marks out of ten then, how successful do you think this ad has been in promoting goodwill towards John Lewis's products among the dogloving fraternity?


haven't a clue, i've not seen it.

btw i'd be in a dog loving sorority.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Nina said:


> This is the whole point and why animal lovers have been objecting in their droves. It is the message that John Lewis are portraying.


That is true. There is two different types of ad, ads that are complete fiction ie cartoons and the depiction of surreal, humorous or fanciful landscapes *or* the "real life" ads that portray life as we know it.

This ad falls into the portrayal of real life, we have "normal" people wrapping presents and getting ready for Christmas, then cut to the poor dog in a grotty shed outside in the cold. Pause at 0:51, 0:52, 0:53 secs.
It is like putting an image of a starving child with a Xmas tangerine after we have seen pics of everyone else eating a Xmas turkey dinner. But that would only be shown for a good cause ie in some sort of appeal, this dog is supposedly having a good Xmas????


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

johnlewisdog-lovesxmas said:


> Come on guys i love christmas like the next dog, but to be fair the family are a grumpy lot and i like it in my doggy grotto. Plus the snow was fake as the ad was shot in summer.
> :thumbup:


So like I said too, it is a commercial and whilst advertising a well known Company who perhaps didn't think clearly it is just that. Not a real dog and so obviously not real snow, a real family nor a frozen dog living in a kennel in the cold. Now I understand why some people go up to soap caharacters and talk to them as their character not themselves in real life.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

John Lewis Partnership - John Lewis Press Office

Havent read all the thread, but i am disgusted having just seen the ad.

Above is a link for their press and PR office.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

This is ridiculous.

1) The dog is not actually in that situation

2) If someone keeps their dog outside like that then they are already that way inclined not influenced by a friggin john lewis advert.

I'm a huge dog lover and dont see the friggin problem!
If you're so upset by it go and do something about the dogs that actually DO live like that instead of complaining about a BLOODY ADVERT.

Jeeze sorry but this is just getting stupid now.


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## tiddlypup (Oct 4, 2008)

it seems that its only animal lovers who have picked up on the dog with no water etc,so the average person watching will see it for what it is and go awww at the little lad taking his dog a present and that will probably be as much interest they show to do with the dog,i cant see the freezing sub zero conditions some of you see,i see a scene of the traditional white christmas,people trying to keep the presents a secret from the kids/partners
just your usual sugary advert,didnt make me get upset or angry over the dog nor did it give me the urge to rush down to a john lewis store


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

Patterdale_lover said:


> .
> 
> Jeeze sorry but this is just getting stupid now.


If you think the thread is stupid nobody is forcing you to continue posting your opinion. If you took the time to read the thread you would see some clearly articulated posts about the way the media, including advertising, influence people's behaviour. Think how many people have tried to buy meerkats recently, just to give one simple example.


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## tiddlypup (Oct 4, 2008)

Lulu's owner said:


> If you think the thread is stupid nobody is forcing you to continue posting your opinion. If you took the time to read the thread you would see some clearly articulated posts about the way the media, including advertising, influence people's behaviour. Think how many people have tried to buy meerkats recently, just to give one simple example.


but the meerkat adverts are full of cute meerkat characters not a fleeting glimpse of what some will see as a big wet smelly hound


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

What about all those cell phone commercials with rabbits, mini pigs, frogs and reptiles ooooo and dont forget the baby hippo to??


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

I was lumbering around the internet like the sad lurker I am and found some posts on a mothers websites where they were annoyed that it showed parents hiding the presents- as their kids had seen the advert- one person said their child had looked at them oddly after they saw it! So at least we're not the only nutjobs that don't like the ad too much!

Patterdale_lover, I think a bit of discussion is brill, and what you're saying made me remember what I read about the mums comments- and realise that I hadn't seen things from that aspect because I don't have kids, but your tone seems really quite angry! :confused1: Come on, chill out a little, or everyone will get all fired up and shouty and no one likes that


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

tiddlypup said:


> but the meerkat adverts are full of cute meerkat characters not a fleeting glimpse of what some will see as a big wet smelly hound


Surely the principle is the same, that people's attitudes and behaviour can be influenced or reinforced by what they see on the telly?


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## Jackie99 (Mar 5, 2010)

Has anyone seen it more than once? I only seen it once I think Sunday evening in the ad break of I'm A Celeb and not since, maybe something has been done? Perhaps it is being edited? I hope....


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

Lulu's owner said:


> Surely the principle is the same, that people's attitudes and behaviour can be influenced or reinforced by what they see on the telly?


Don't get me wrong, I am the first to admit that a TV programme dealing with issues like mental illness, hospital issues, Police stuff and so on, must be accurate but to stretch it to a like hearted advertisment which I haven't even seen, beggars belief about people being influenced imo.


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## tiddlypup (Oct 4, 2008)

Lulu's owner said:


> Surely the principle is the same, that people's attitudes and behaviour can be influenced or reinforced by what they see on the telly?


yes people can be influenced by what they see,well thats what they were hoping for when they made the add but come on a full advert of cute talking meerkats will have most kids wanting one,this is a few seconds in an ad thats showing lots of presents bet most notice the lights on the kennel rather than its got no water,it could have gone outside to escape the hustle n bustle


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

Sorry I was a little wound up as it was earlier i aplogise for my tone.

Its about 5 seconds in an advert though and not what the advert is advertising. I do just feel it's getting OTT


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2010)

I have seen this chain of emails on the Facebook group



> Mr Caldwell,
> 
> Thank you for your reply. I appreciate the fast response.
> 
> ...


I must say that of course the breeder is happy with the way her dog is portrayed I'd imagine there is some kind of reward?

I read somewhere as well that wolfhounds are to be kept outside anyway...I do not know the breed but would imagine that every dog is different. I have one beagle who LOVES the cold and another who gets quite ill when it's cold!


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2010)

I did also see if from a different perspective that...to be showing any kind of Christmassy scene combined with a dog for that awww factor is DISGUSTING!! Knowing how much rescues suffer after Christmas with abandoned dogs etc NO MASSIVE CHAIN STORE should be showing animals, presents etc.

As a rehoming officer for a dog rehoming charity I cannot help but think that kids watching will be like "oh mummy daddy can we have a doggy please" so they can give it a stocking....

FAST FORWARD TWO WEEKS!!....decorations come down, everyone goes back to work, dog chews slippers then finds itself in a rehoming cenhtre somewhere???

Marketing chiefs need to be so carefult depicting ANY animal at Christmas this advert to me gave the impression taht all kids will be giving a stiocking to their dogs and thats NOT the impression we want to give...but also didn't appreciate the whole snow storm angle either :-(

I have no probs with dogs being outside one of the other rehoming officers keeps her beagles outside (a large pack!) it's not cruel but a small rickety kennel, adjourned with fairy lights and sat on a coastal path is NOT right!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I have just telephoned, but shall email as well! Spoken to someone in customer services called John, after being put on hold he came back to assure me that no dogs were harmed in any way whilst making the commercial! And told him that was not the point and that their advert was portraying that is was acceptable to keep a dog in a kennel at the bottom of the garden! Not a caring christmas at all!
> 
> And! it seems I was NOT the first to call - they have had several calls!


Good on you DT, what an awful end to the video, i was left feeling really sad for the dog, they got this one wrong 

is thier email easy obtained from thier website, i will go look


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Im such a muppet at times , just seen thier email in the above posts

will email them to say how wrong this ad comes accross


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

There's been quite a few mentions of Wolfhounds...he's actually a Deerhound by the way

Just thought I'd put my part in this thread!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

What I find hilarious is the song they chose for the ad. Your song by Elton John.

Since when have 'I don't have much money' and John Lewis ever been in the same sentence :lol:


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

AmberNero said:


> and it's not giving off a caring message.


Do the RSPCA adverts which show animals in various stages of cruelty give off a caring messge?

Because, if anything, i turn those off as I can't bear to watch it.

This is like the Emmerdale secene where everyone was up in arms...

Is anyone going to go and start using Drugs after what is going on in Emerdale at the moment?

Or how about blowing up a restaurant after they saw what is going on in holyoaks?

Or rape?

Or murder?

IT IS NOT REAL?!?! ITS A TV ADVERT!!!!!!!!


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Buster's Mummy said:


> As a rehoming officer for a dog rehoming charity I cannot help but think that kids watching will be like "oh mummy daddy can we have a doggy please" so they can give it a stocking....


They are not advertising dogs though?!

So no dog should be used in an advert, at all over christmas?

Or on a TV/Film?

Bloody hell, what a miserable suggestion.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

i don't see a problem with the ad. maybe the dog just wanted to go out for a bit and was sat in the kennel watching the snow :confused1: kid saw dog outside and thought i'll go and give the dog a stocking now and go out in the snow too. 5 mins later dog gets called back in the warm and they all live happily ever after :thumbup:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Horse and Hound said:


> IT IS NOT REAL?!?! ITS A TV ADVERT!!!!!!!!


I think this has been established.

OKAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

Biawhiska said:


> i don't see a problem with the ad. maybe the dog just wanted to go out for a bit and was sat in the kennel watching the snow :confused1: kid saw dog outside and thought i'll go and give the dog a stocking now and go out in the snow too. 5 mins later dog gets called back in the warm and they all live happily ever after :thumbup:


That is a good point, doesn't mean the dog is out there all the time, might have just wanted a wee.



sequeena said:


> I think this has been established.
> 
> OKAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Just making sure.... :thumbup:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Horse and Hound said:


> That is a good point, doesn't mean the dog is out there all the time, might have just wanted a wee.
> 
> Just making sure.... :thumbup:


:lol: :lol:


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

so far i've not seen anyone mention the fact that the dog is:

not tied to the kennel;

is sat outside the kennel of it of it's own volition;

doesn't attempt to follow the boy inside.

you are insinuating what you can't see, which means when you insist that you are disgusted by it and complain to john lewis you are accusing them of something that doesn't exist and hence are committing liable/slander. you don't know that the pretend family are neglecting their dog, you don't know how long the pretend family have left their pretend dog outside for, you don't know if the pretend dog prefers being outside, you don't know if the pretend dog is cold as it is not shivering or looking miserable, you don't know if the pretend kennel is heated in anyway, you don't know if the pretend weather is warmer than it looks. 

btw.. who of the current complainers complained to the RSPCC about their ad, the toddler in the cot in dirty clothing, looking genuinely distressed, asking for a drink. surely that if nothing is showing people how to treat their children... *yes ignore your childs cry, they'll shut up eventually and learn after a few attempts that you come when you can be bothered*, of the other wee boy who had to go through the bin bag for his tea.. omg there might have been empty tins with sharp edges and who knows what germs he ate off that bit of food from the bin bag. but no that's ok because they're campaigning to stop it so they can show whatever they want, even if some people might interpret it a different way like you did with the dog in the JL ad.

basically everyones getting upset about something they've assumed is happening, there is no proof that pretend doggy is miserable, he might 'look' miserable as someone suggested cos this was the 50th take and he's bored! who knows.

there were other 'suggestions' as to the fate of the dog that were equally unfounded and ridiculous imho.. it's an ad.. why read into it more than what you see, get upset about it and then get upset when people don't agree with your version of said pretend events?


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

think they should just ban christmas adverts full stop. christmas is depressing enough, stop ramming it down our throats in november, please?! 

the world has gone mad, what with a pig in a toy farm now causing offence but sainsbury's can still sell pork, phew!:001_cool:


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

owieprone said:


> so far i've not seen anyone mention the fact that the dog is:
> 
> not tied to the kennel;
> 
> ...


Presuming you mean NSPCC, an anti-cruelty ad is completely different from an ad promoting an aspirational brand like John Lewis. The subliminal message presumably put across by the NSPCC ad (which I haven't actually seen) is that if you treat your children this badly then you can expect a visit from them and maybe have your children taken into care, whereas the subliminal message of the John Lewis ad is that this is a perfectly fine way to treat a dog.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Lulu's owner said:


> Presuming you mean NSPCC, an anti-cruelty ad is completely different from an ad promoting an aspirational brand like John Lewis. The subliminal message presumably put across by the NSPCC ad (which I haven't actually seen) is that if you treat your children this badly then you can expect a visit from them and maybe have your children taken into care, whereas the subliminal message of the John Lewis ad is that this is a perfectly fine way to treat a dog.


yep they're the badger i was on about.

i don't see how it's different tbh... they're showing scenes of kids who've been abandoned/abused... people who are into that sort of thing will interpret that their own way... just as people on here have interpreted 3 seconds of dog outside as abandonment and cruelty.


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## billyboysmammy (Sep 12, 2009)

Not abandoned no

What i see is that the dogs kennel is decorated, he has his stocking taken out to him, therefore its a natural assumption (which many on here and elsewhere have made) that he lives outside.

I'm not against dogs living outside per-se, and know a number of happy outside dogs, but the message this advert gives me is that its OK to leave a dog outside without adequate shelter, and water in freezing temperatures. 

I'm not going to argue the point because we all have our own opionions, but for me it is sending the wrong message, and one i feel strong enough about to have made a complaint.

What i will say though, is with all this discussion, john lewis have succeeded in their advertising, we're all talking about it!


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

owieprone said:


> yep they're the badger i was on about.
> 
> i don't see how it's different tbh... they're showing scenes of kids who've been abandoned/abused... people who are into that sort of thing will interpret that their own way... just as people on here have interpreted 3 seconds of dog outside as abandonment and cruelty.


Sorry, I'm getting confused, haven't a clue where badgers come into it, so think I had better give up commenting on stuff I haven't seen!


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> Do the RSPCA adverts which show animals in various stages of cruelty give off a caring messge?
> 
> Because, if anything, i turn those off as I can't bear to watch it.
> 
> ...


Rep for you!


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Lulu's owner said:


> Sorry, I'm getting confused, haven't a clue where badgers come into it, so think I had better give up commenting on stuff I haven't seen!


it's a colloquialism. it means that's the thing i meant.

exactly billyboys, the kennel is decorated... which shows pretend family want pretend dog to be involved, it is lying on a blanket not the ground, this is pretend dogs 'personal space' much like the kids bedrooms. Which no doubt, seeing as we're all assuming things, will be decorated too. again, it doesn't mean that the dog stays there year round.

you've assumed the bowl isn't IN the nice assumed non-heated kennel, and it's pretend 'snowing' it'll eat that if it's thirsty.

at least they've used a wolf hound and not a chihuahua.

also! just thought of this.. the fact that the dog has a kennel smacks of permanency.. dog's aren't just for crimbo after all.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

owieprone said:


> it's a colloquialism. it means that's the thing i meant.


Sorry, wasn't meaning to be funny, the only meaning I know for badgers is those black and white animals that farmers are not very fond of, maybe I'm more of a townie than you, or it's just we come from different ends of the country.

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that the only way to sort this out is for John Lewis to make the full version of the ad, putting the "neglected dog dumped out in snowy kennel" vibe into context, incorporating all the positive suggestions made above. It might blow their advertising budget for the coming year but providing it's carefully done at least it would keep everybody happy.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

i dunno where it originates from, i've heard loads of folk from all over the shop using 'badger' like that, including on telly.

or people could just calm down and stop making a mountain out of a mole hill.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Holly dog kennels!!!

I know loads of dogs that live outside all year round regardless of the weather. Some have a kennel, some have a few farm buildings to choose from and some have a rather nice garden shed that look like kid's play houses.

The dog looks bored becasue it's a TV advert and it has to sit there all day whilst the kid tries to remember what to do with the stocking. Look at any ctalogue and flick tot he pet care section. The only anmlas that look happy to be in their igloos are those that got the shot the shot done in one go. Cats never look happy in those pics at all.

Isn't CGI a beautiful thing? Snow fall at sea level in this country is quite rare so my bet is that the whole thing is done by using wonderful digital imagery - magic.

Last but not least god forbid the family for caring enough about their beloved dog to buy it a stocking of wonderful things, providing shelter and teachign ti to not get too excited when the kids are around. Looks like the ideal family pet to me.

Later next year my dogs will be living outside. That'll come as a shock to them after living in doors for the last 2-3 years. Oh no it won;t as they start panting at the very sound of the boiler firing up and if you have the patio doors open they will lie outside on the patio despite the frost. During the bad snow at the start of the year I couldn;t keep them in. As they have to work very hard to over heat in low temps they love it as they go for ages and still have a reasonable body temp, plus they have fur to cope with it all. 

Anyone going to ring up the Iditarod race organisers and insist that each husky must have a hot water bottle and a minimum of a two bedroom bugalow to sleep in at night instead of having to endure -70 degrees winds that blow at 100+mph as they bed down in their little self made dips in the snow?


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

hutch6 said:


> Holly dog kennels!!!
> 
> I know loads of dogs that live outside all year round regardless of the weather. Some have a kennel, some have a few farm buildings to choose from and some have a rather nice garden shed that look like kid's play houses.
> 
> ...


That was the oddest looking husky in the John Lewis ad.


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## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

Lulu's owner said:


> That was the oddest looking husky in the John Lewis ad.


Was it not a Husky? Dam. I was so sure too.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I think any company needs to be aware of the controversial topics in society.
Any ad that triggers strong negative emotions needs to be considered carefully.
So children perhaps handling knives or matches or ethnic communities or minorities being denigrated or shown in a bad light needs extra thought to avoid negativity and uproar.

Animal welfare is a big issue today. Dogs are a big part of society and figure largely in people's lives.

They would never have shown an Eastern European nanny living in a tiny bare attic at the top of the house getting a stocking, no matter how cute the image. 

When ads are aired we get a lot of subliminal and overt messages, how many wanted a silver tabby when they were shown in an advertising campaign, how many go out and buy ingredients when a celebrity chef makes a banoffee pie, even from people who hate bananas. Deerhound/wolfhound puppies will be in demand as everyone will buy into the wonderful Christmas theme with a snowy house in the country. Not all can afford the snowy house in the country, but they can afford the deerhound puppy or some other lookalike breed and where will they put the puppy, in a little open shed at the foot of the garden just exactly like in the ad of course. 
I am not saying all are so shallow and superficial but some are just that, and it is up to advertisers to perhaps think a little more deeply as to the image they give out to the general public especially where animal welfare is concerned.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

yes, i must go and buy a white mouse so i can set hundreds of mouse traps then buy that particular brand of cheese put it on a mound of mouse traps and see if said bought mousy can make it to the cheese and back without getting it's guts squashed out, just like in the ad.

if advertisers did absolutely everything they could not to offend anyone or do anything that could be construed as cruel or prejudiced or biased then ads would be boring and not actually worth paying thousands of pounds for and would put quite a lot of people out of work and no products would be bought and firms would go under due to lack of sale....i could go on.

they can't please 100% of viewers 100% of the time, but they were not showing anything wrong, it was a wolf hound, not a chihuahua, it was a made up scene, and they expect breeders and sellers to carefully monitor who they sell their pets to.. it's unfortunate that not all breeders and dog owners are worth the air they breath but john lewis or any other company cannot pander to every scenario interpreted from their ad just because some moron might not bother to read up on how to look after the pet they buy properly, how much it'll cost and long they have to do it for.


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## Lulu's owner (May 1, 2009)

hutch6 said:


> Was it not a Husky? Dam. I was so sure too.


Should have gone to Specsavers! (Me, influenced by advertising? Never!)


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Owieprone are you referring to this mouse ad ?

YouTube - Mouse exercising with a mouse trap (cheese ad)


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

no but that's genius! :lol:


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

hutch6 said:


> Was it not a Husky? Dam. I was so sure too.


I thought it was a Lurcher or Wolfhound, but only seen the ad once.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

wolf hound

does no one read my posts?


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

owieprone said:


> wolf hound
> 
> does no one read my posts?


Was just giving my opinion


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

doof,

you said you weren't sure which, i've already stated several times what type of dog it is, so you needed have been unsure.

btw, i'm not bothered if you don't read them, i'll still post, i was just wondering if anyone read them at all...it's hard to be annoying if no one reads what i write


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

hahahah i just noticed my greenies are 50/50.. the note says i'm a splendid one to behold... a splendid what tho? 

can't believe i have green blobs  i MUST be MORE annoying and contraversial dammit!


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

Havent read this thread yet so sorry if saying something that somebody has already said, but this ad is now being made shorter and the dog part cut out of it :thumbup:

coldwetnose: John Lewis docks dog from unpopular advert


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

owieprone said:


> doof,
> 
> you said you weren't sure which, i've already stated several times what type of dog it is, so you needed have been unsure.
> 
> btw, i'm not bothered if you don't read them, i'll still post, i was just wondering if anyone read them at all...it's hard to be annoying if no one reads what i write


okay, gonna raise the stakes of annoyingness here....

it's actually a Deerhound in the advert 

Quote from the lady who owns the dog, a very quick google search revealed a forum which the owner of the JL advert dog 'Rannoch' belongs to:



> So just to keep things clear, RANNOCH is a pedigree Deerhound and he got the John lewis advert


sorry :thumbup:


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

close thing, one chases deer the other wolves both are hardy fekkers that can deal with abit of fake winter.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

owieprone said:


> close thing, one chases deer the other wolves both are hardy fekkers that can deal with abit of fake winter.


exactly :thumbup:

A bit more of the owners POV (which is much more factual than ours since she was most probably there throughout filming)



> I think Rannoch should be nominated for an oscar, the reaction to the advert has been huge (not to the good of John Lewis:blush: )
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if the advert is pulled or edited.
> 
> ...


the owner of the dog also made a good point towards the end of this post, regarding the children in the advert:



> I see a proud Deerhound, in the comfort of his heated kennel surveying his teritory. Vast open fields beyond his owners garden. An independant creature not tethered or walled in. He may look big and tough and scruffy, but the wee boy loves him enough to wade out in the snow and give him a Christmas gift. He's not a cute wee puppy, he's a full grown dog, but the wee boy still loves him.
> 
> Others see a poor, neglected dog abandoned to the elements while his owners enjoy the comforts of a heated home.
> 
> ...


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

*In the words of Micheal Winner "Calm down dear, it's just a commercial!"*


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## kirksandallchins (Nov 3, 2007)

I can't beleive there is all this fuss over an advert - I wonder if the OP is an employee of John Lewis who is on comission for attracting viewers to the site

Even if the situation was real I don't think the RSPCA would think it an act of cruelty to have a dog living outside (and many do) in bad weather. As long as the animal has shelter, food and water they will not intervene in the real world


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

I think there has been a lot of flippant comments re this ad and some members have not taken the implications of the ad seriously. They have skewed the main cause of concern re this ad into the farce of worry about the dog actor, worry about cruelty to the dog actor. Eh! 
They have mentioned that we should be aware that all adverts cannot be taken literally. No, that cannot be right. 
They have tried to say so many things that have no relevance whatsoever as to the real reason why this ad should be pulled.

Dog abuse and poor dog management especially around Christmas time is no laughing matter. I am so glad John Lewis has decided to pull this ad.
There is no "feel good" factor about dogs being left out alone in the cold with inadequate protection, as I am sure many will indeed be this Christmas.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

i've not even seen this advert on the actual tv.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> i've not even seen this advert on the actual tv.


I've only seen it twice - once when it first went out during X Factor - there is an Elton John song as the music and it was Elton John week on X Factor, I thought it was one of the contestants singing :lol:

then i saw it again after all the fuss had kicked up over it and was thoroughly disappointed, thought I was gonna see the owners strangling it with tinsel whilst trying to feed it brussel sprouts or something :scared:


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Verbatim said:


> I've only seen it twice - once when it first went out during X Factor - there is an Elton John song as the music and it was Elton John week on X Factor, I thought it was one of the contestants singing :lol:
> 
> then i saw it again after all the fuss had kicked up over it and was thoroughly disappointed, thought I was gonna see the owners strangling it with tinsel whilst trying to feed it brussel sprouts or something :scared:


or hanging from a tree with christmas lights round it's neck


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2010)

Is it wrong that I'm more upset at the dreadful cover of an excellent song than at the dog in a kennel


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> or hanging from a tree with christmas lights round it's neck


:lol: :lol: yeah! or worse, they coulda been using it as the fairy on top of the tree..... ouch, poor dog :eek6: :eek6:


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> I think there has been a lot of flippant comments re this ad and some members have not taken the implications of the ad seriously. They have skewed the main cause of concern re this ad into the farce of worry about the dog actor, worry about cruelty to the dog actor. Eh!
> They have mentioned that we should be aware that all adverts cannot be taken literally. No, that cannot be right.
> They have tried to say so many things that have no relevance whatsoever as to the real reason why this ad should be pulled.
> 
> ...


I don't think I am being flippant personally, but if an ad that includes a dog looking sad in the snow in a kennel makes people react like this why do the same people react the same way about real abuse and the adverts that show it? This is FICTION not fact and yes, there probably are plenty of dogs who live outside and I personally couldn't do it, but I cannot see the reaction as normal for fiction


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

omg has anyone seen the new sainsburys ad?


it shows a dog running through the snow...... WITH NO WELLIES ON







sorry, just saw it and couldn't resist


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Verbatim said:


> omg has anyone seen the new sainsburys ad?
> 
> it shows a dog running through the snow...... WITH NO WELLIES ON
> 
> ...


omg, noooooooooooooooo wheres the email address to complain?


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> omg, noooooooooooooooo wheres the email address to complain?


erm hang on

[email protected]


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

JohnMorris said:


> I thought it was a Lurcher or Wolfhound, but only seen the ad once.


He's a Deerhound  very handsome one at that. I've been on his owners website.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

How do you turn a 60 second advertisement into a documentary?

Simple,

Post the article on pet forums. :lol:


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

happysaz133 said:


> He's a Deerhound  very handsome one at that. I've been on his owners website.


I stand corrected, thanks.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

I thought the ad was in bad taste tbh, I had no issues with the dog being outside, as lots of dogs are kept outdoors. But why portray a dog outdoors in the first place? They didn't think it through at all.

As for the ad itself, I couldn't help but think that the poor pooch was an afterthought. The ad was definately bad taste


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

MissShelley said:


> I thought the ad was in bad taste tbh, I had no issues with the dog being outside, as lots of dogs are kept outdoors. But why portray a dog outdoors in the first place? They didn't think it through at all.
> 
> As for the ad itself, I couldn't help but think that the poor pooch was an afterthought. The ad was definately bad taste


But think what through?!

Anyone would think the advert is actually FOR dog abuse!?

Christ, all it shows is a dog, outside, in a kennel, and its snowing. Not what I would call blizzard conditions, having actually been in one of those before!

Did none of you ever let your dogs out last christmas with the snow?!

It doesn't show the dog being there for hours, just that its outside. Was it chained to a kennel? Not that I could see?!

Perhaps he was waiting for Father Christmas.

Oh, btw. My Roo was out for 50 mins in his kennel last night, well, not kennel its actually a converted coal storage bunker that he has dragged several blankets/toys into to make a den. It was raining, about 4 degrees and would he come in? Would he bugger.

But feel free to report me to the authorities, as this constitutes animal abuse according to some on here...


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Horse and Hound said:


> Did none of you ever let your dogs out last christmas with the snow?!


Yep, but then he came straight back in again to lie by my feet where he belonged.....


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

Verbatim said:


> erm hang on
> 
> [email protected]


:thumbup: :lol: thanks


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Not a good advert IMHO. I mean couldnt they have shown a dog curled up infront of a fire all cosy and a kid putting a 'Fido' stocking on the mantel??

Sure lots of dogs live outside but then kids can live quite comfortably in basements and attics. Why not show mum and dad creeping down to the damp smelly basement to leave a stocking for the kids!!


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

I've actually found a dog who has been affected by this advert. The womans Dad will now not let her dog step foot in his house as there's no reason why he cannot stay outside like the John Lewis dog.

She can no longer go and visit her parents because of this, as they will not allow the dog to come too!

Why oh why couldn't they have just shown the dog lying by the fire enjoying his Christmas stocking in there?! I'm glad its being pulled.


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

catz4m8z said:


> Not a good advert IMHO. I mean couldnt they have shown a dog curled up infront of a fire all cosy and a kid putting a 'Fido' stocking on the mantel??
> 
> Sure lots of dogs live outside but then kids can live quite comfortably in basements and attics. Why not show mum and dad creeping down to the damp smelly basement to leave a stocking for the kids!!


I bet they wish they had now don't you?


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> I think there has been a lot of flippant comments re this ad and some members have not taken the implications of the ad seriously. They have skewed the main cause of concern re this ad into the farce of worry about the dog actor, worry about cruelty to the dog actor. Eh!
> They have mentioned that we should be aware that all adverts cannot be taken literally. No, that cannot be right.
> They have tried to say so many things that have no relevance whatsoever as to the real reason why this ad should be pulled.
> 
> ...


Rep for you hun, we are most certainly on the same wavelength! I do not want to see all Christmas adverts or adverts around Christmas time omitting dogs I just want them to use a brain before flippantly creating an advert. NO THOUGHT at all went into this advert to get the reaction it did. I also notice from the Facebook group that a lot of those *for* the advert work for John Lewis, know the children/dog or leave dogs outside themselves (and all may I add are digging HUGE holes fro themselves and missing the ppoint so shamefully!). I still go back to the fact the dog did not wag his tail when he saw the boy, the boy held out a hand to say "STAY" - I know its an advert and the dog is acting BUT John Lewis didn't show a happy dog pleased to see the boy. The dog had no access to a dog flap or indoor space (the door was closed) and teh boy told the dog to STAY!!!

If kids were not nagging parents before about getting a cute little doggy for Christmas with a lit up kennel and a cute doggy stocking before they will now and its people who work in rehoming centres who pick up the pieces. Instead of people buying dogs due to temperament, research and breed characteristics they buy them as the dog was on a film/advert! We have just taken on a rescue beagle as the owner said "I have loved beagles since we saw that film but she requires so much attention, exercise, time and doesn't come back when called we can't handle her with our other dog...she is the most adorable little girl, yes a handful but as experienced beagle owners nothing we cannot handle!! The power of TV huh??? I have no problem with these films and adverts, in fact I have been guilty of saying awww I really want a labrador like Marley...A meercat!!!..A Gorilla!! we are probably all guilty of that but at Christmas time companies and TV bosses MUST make more effort to discourage buying of puppies, kittens, livestock as presents for those who will not be able to care all year round!

How many kids will be asking to put fairy lights on the dog kennel and hang a stocking up? Not many you say well my sister saw the advert and said "if Dave had not passed away she would have decorated his hutch with fairy lights and a stocking and she is 22!!!!!"

Adverts are there to create subliminal messages, people remember them BUT not always for the right reason. They catch people in different ways for many MacDonalds adverts give off bad connotations (animal cruelty, factory farming, poor practices, heart attack heaven!!!) to me it makes me hungry and want it all the more!!! This John Lewis advert to me PERSONALLY made me sick to the stomach! You may disagree BUT as someone working in rehoming I will always beg to differ! People spend 3 years at university learning how to subliminaly attract people to stores, companies and ideas Nationwide...therefore they must be careful that at the same time they do not alienate others!

Just to clarify dogs in adverts at Xmas time is NOT bad!!! But inconsiderate, unthoughtful advertising IS BAD!!! and I think this advert by an up and coming media firm was very poorly designed and executed. On the surface its a lovely warm caring advert until the end and I for one am glad they ended it!


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

of course, the parents could just say "No." or that 'i wants, don't get'.


problem solved.


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

If we take what is said in this thread as literal then the following films should all be banned.

1) Lassie Come Home- shows that its ok to sell your dog to a richer family who happen to take a liking to her. 
2) Babe- Clearly shows that it is ok to lock your dogs out of the house, in a barn, and in some cases tie them up with a chain to the floor and muzzle them.
3) Homeward Bound- fancy taking your pets and leaving them at someones farm so that they can escape
4) K9- Shows a dog getting shot, irresponsible owner allowing them to do the deed without thinking of consequences, and fancy feeding your dog a frozen chop? 
5) Beethoven- advocates the use of animals in testing.
6) Peter Pan- poor Nana the dog, chained up in the garden.
7) Lady and the Tramp- fancy putting a puppy in a box and wrapping it up for Christmas. This will clearly make LOADS of people go and do it.

Animal Cruelty is a horrific thing and in my opinion, if people put in half as much effort to helping those that really need it instead of complaining about something FICTIONAL they have seen on TV, then the world would be a much better place.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

How old are those examples?

When were they set?
Lassie Come Home is a film from 1943. 

Surely a film that is about modern day living should not have the same animal welfare ideas as one set in 1943????

Even Beethoven was 20 years ago. Ideas have changed even in that short timescale.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

more recent ones

finding nemo - dentists niece gets fish despite dentist knowing she kills them
shrek - it's ok to have fat cats
wall-e - it's ok to stand on bugs cos they'll just reinflate

to name but a few.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Forget the John Lewis advert - apparently the coca cola advert is on tv!!!  Chriiiiiistmas :thumbup:


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Forget the John Lewis advert - apparently the coca cola advert is on tv!!!  Chriiiiiistmas :thumbup:


I prefer another brand actuamally.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

owieprone said:


> I prefer another brand actuamally.


Pepsi? 
My OH insists on Pepsi Max - UGH!


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

It seems evident to me, that those who formed the wrong impression from the onset regarding the content of this advert are quite obviously influenced far too easily and are explicitly susceptible to impression. Such people are a danger to themselves and illustrate the very reason we are blighted by the doctrines of censorship and Political correctness.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

owieprone said:


> more recent ones
> 
> finding nemo - dentists niece gets fish despite dentist knowing she kills them
> shrek - it's ok to have fat cats
> ...


And all these reflect normal life??


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> And all these reflect normal life??


yes because the 'lifestyle' shown in the John Lewis advert is so within grasp of most of the uk


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

GreyHare said:


> yes because the 'lifestyle' shown in the John Lewis advert is so within grasp of most of the uk


exactly. fictional characters. kids are obviuosly (according to some) going to be influenced by the doggy in the JL ad they also go round the local fish shops screaming at the top of their lungs NEMO even tho it's a tomato clown.. i've heard one say it to a GOLDFISH! i corrected her, she look like she was going to cry, i smiled and walked on and had a fabulous rest of day.

so yes kids are influenced by anything they see, i know how many kids parents went into my local shop asking for 'nemos' when that film came out only to walk away with tetras or completely empty handed when they found out how much it costs to keep fish.

it's up to the adults to use the common sense they were born with and if they weren't born with any they should bloody well go out and have some implanted.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Pepsi?
> My OH insists on Pepsi Max - UGH!


I love pepsi max :thumbup:


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## Horse and Hound (May 12, 2010)

lauren001 said:


> How old are those examples?
> 
> When were they set?
> Lassie Come Home is a film from 1943.
> ...


Exactly, ideas have changed therefore they should be banned from TV now.



owieprone said:


> it's up to the adults to use the common sense they were born with and if they weren't born with any they should bloody well go out and have some implanted.


Spot on.

My mum and dad never pandered to any of mine or my brother's stupid whims about pets, so I'm beggared if I will when I have kids of my own.

Parents doing that are just plain stupid in my opinion.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> I love pepsi max :thumbup:


:nonod: :scared:


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

diabetic, can't have drinks with sugar in and i hate the taste of diet versions so seem to like pepsi max, also keeps me awake, a bonus, sometimes! :001_cool:


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

BBC News - John Lewis changes Christmas &#039;dog neglect&#039; advert

I didnt realise people actually watched commercials. .

Now if you lot can campaign to get the bread advert to drop the Samual Barber piece, Adagio For Strings, i'd really appreciate it.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> BBC News - John Lewis changes Christmas 'dog neglect' advert
> 
> I didnt realise people actually watched commercials. .
> 
> Now if you lot can campaign to get the bread advert to drop the Samual Barber piece, Adagio For Strings, i'd really appreciate it.


Oh... well.

Not sure what I think.

Yay for the public changing things but... really? Come on. I'm not a huge fan of the advert myself (the song - crazy! Jon Lewis isn't cheap :lol but I think this is a little ridiculous.


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> BBC News - John Lewis changes Christmas 'dog neglect' advert
> 
> I didnt realise people actually watched commercials. .
> 
> Now if you lot can campaign to get the bread advert to drop the Samual Barber piece, Adagio For Strings, i'd really appreciate it.


i watch it once then mute it if it annoys me.. if it doesn't it gets ignored.

i quite like that bread ad, amuses me.


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## Phoenix&Charlie'sMum (Oct 12, 2009)

What I dont understand is that the dog doesnt get "locked" outside. The boy doesnt even shut the door when he goes back in. So how do all these complainers know the family are being cruel? the dog might be happy sitting outside.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Well someones obviously missed the bigger picture here. That poor little boy wanders out into a violent blizzard in just his jimmy jams and slippers. Now, to me, that smacks of child neglect and Im surprised the social services havent jumped on the band wagon as well. But then again the social services arent really known for their concern regarding the welfare of children are they? Neither, does it seem, is anyone else. So lets hear it for all the neglected children in need and by the time weve all finished with our personal crusades John Lewis wont have a 2010 christmas ad left!


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## owieprone (Nov 6, 2008)

Zaros said:


> Well someones obviously missed the bigger picture here. That poor little boy wanders out into a violent blizzard in just his jimmy jams and slippers. Now, to me, that smacks of child neglect and Im surprised the social services havent jumped on the band wagon as well. But then again the social services arent really known for their concern regarding the welfare of children are they? Neither, does it seem, is anyone else. So lets hear it for all the neglected children in need and by the time weve all finished with our personal crusades John Lewis wont have a 2010 christmas ad left!


that boy wasn't in need, he had a good coat on and no black eye. though he could be neglected as he's blatantly not been taught to wear lace up shoes or how to do his jacket up, he was also left supervising his younger sister near what looked like the glare of a fire, with just the tv for company while the parents apparently drunkenly (when else do you move like that and hope you won't be heard, smirking the whole while?) manhandled some ancient sort of finger-lopping, vomit-inducing device up the stair to terrorise the children with later?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

owieprone said:


> that boy wasn't in need, he had a good coat on and no black eye.


Actually, on closer inspection, the coat is a fake Parka. Not the real deal at all and hardly protects the wearer from the onslaught of a harsh and inhospitable winter. What is even more disturbing, I think this little lad is just learning to walk without his calipers. He sure has an odd gait to his stride and I can quite easily see him being blown towards the black depths of the nearby icy lake and his inevitable death. 

Nevertheless, with regards to the black eye; any deviously abusive parent wishing to avoid the publicity of a court case would never mark a child so visibly.


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

Phoenix&Charlie'sMum said:


> What I dont understand is that the dog doesnt get "locked" outside. The boy doesnt even shut the door when he goes back in. So how do all these complainers know the family are being cruel? the dog might be happy sitting outside.


It's simply that the kennel and situation isn't adequate. You have said you know the dog, are you registered on the Deerhound forum? There is a post about a dog on there who has been affected by this advert. Even if its only one dog affected by this advert, its one too many!


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

happysaz133 said:


> There is a post about a dog on there who has been affected by this advert.


The dog in therapy is it? What I dont understand is this; if the owners knew the dog was of such a sensitive disposition then why was the animal allowed to watch the advertisement in the first place? :confused1:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Biawhiska said:


> diabetic, can't have drinks with sugar in and i hate the taste of diet versions so seem to like pepsi max, also keeps me awake, a bonus, sometimes! :001_cool:


Life saving... but still horrible tasting  :lol:


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Sorry but i don't know what all the fuss is about,as others have said its an advert.Gosh i didn't think people took telly that serious.*


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

JANICE199 said:


> *Sorry but i don't know what all the fuss is about,as others have said its an advert.Gosh i didn't think people took telly that serious.*


But Janice its what John Lewis are actually portraying that I found wrong.

Advertising is a very powerful media, otherwise large companies would not be spending huge amounts of money.

Had I been responsible for that advert I would have shown the dog curled up by a Christmas tree in front of a nice log fire. Now that is what I call a caring, sharing Christmas, not stuck down the bottom of a garden in the freezing cold!

This is why there have been so many objections to the advert.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Nina said:


> But Janice its what John Lewis are actually portraying that I found wrong.
> 
> Advertising is a very powerful media, otherwise large companies would not be spending huge amounts of money.
> 
> ...


*To put things into perspective what do people think of this advert? Now IF i wanted to complain about an ad. i think this is far worse then the JL one.
YouTube - HP Printer Baby Advert Funny*


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

JANICE199 said:


> *To put things into perspective what do people think of this advert? Now IF i wanted to complain about an ad. i think this is far worse then the JL one.
> YouTube - HP Printer Baby Advert Funny*


If you feel that strongly Jan then complain, I would.

I think that a lot of these advertisments are ill thought out and I completely agree that I take little notice of adverts, although I did LOVE the smash ones 

It took me ages to work out the Meerkats ads (drrr).

Going back to JL though. I think the majority of people would rather see a dog being portrayed curled up asleep in front of a nice warm fire. That to me is depicting a dog as part of a family Christmas, not down the bottom of a garden in a small dark kennel in blizzard conditions


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## JohnMorris (Oct 15, 2010)

Nina said:


> But Janice its what John Lewis are actually portraying that I found wrong.
> 
> Advertising is a very powerful media, otherwise large companies would not be spending huge amounts of money.
> 
> ...


Whilst it is a fantasy situation, the perfect Christmas family scene, has no-one considered that some dogs prefer to live outside? I personally feel a dog should be part of the family and llive at home, but what about the Police Dogs, farm dogs ect who know nothing different and have to be kept outdoors? What about the people (and we know a few) who keep cats outdoors and never let them in the house?


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

JohnMorris said:


> Whilst it is a fantasy situation, the perfect Christmas family scene, has no-one considered that some dogs prefer to live outside? I personally feel a dog should be part of the family and llive at home, but what about the Police Dogs, farm dogs ect who know nothing different and have to be kept outdoors? ?


Police dogs are kept by their handlers, they are a family pet when off duty, my sis in law supplies GSD's to the met police. I like that some of Max's relatives are serving officers  And all the farm dogs I know have lived in the house.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

JohnMorris said:


> Whilst it is a fantasy situation, the perfect Christmas family scene, has no-one considered that some dogs prefer to live outside? I personally feel a dog should be part of the family and llive at home, but what about the Police Dogs, farm dogs ect who know nothing different and have to be kept outdoors? What about the people (and we know a few) who keep cats outdoors and never let them in the house?


Just because people do it, doesn't make it right, nor does it mean it has to be encouraged for pet dogs for the working and middle classes which would have been the demographic for this ad.


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

MissShelley said:


> Police dogs are kept by their handlers, they are a family pet when off duty, my sis in law supplies GSD's to the met police. I like that some of Max's relatives are serving officers  And all the farm dogs I know have lived in the house.


Absolutely right :thumbup:


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Having already been informed by the sanctimonious that we are under the terrible misconception that our dogs like being outdoors, might I just say that before we joined this site no one had heard of the Sarplaninac. 
Therefore, it logically follows, that if no one was aware of the breed how could they possibly know what was right for the animal? :confused1:
Although our dogs do have 24 hour access to the property in all weathers they actually choose to be outdoors in winter and they choose to be indoors during some of the hottest days of the summer. 
The Sars coat is perfectly adapted to meet the full onslaught of harsh winter weather conditions and, contrary to belief, Sars enjoy the cold. They are not forced to endure it as most might want to believe. 
They will sit, lay, doze and sleep quite happily in high winds, torrential rain and blizzards. 
Because of their coat density it would be more appropriate to say that the Sar does not fair too well in hot weather and so to combat the heat we purchased an air conditioner so that they were able to maintain a more manageable and comfortable body temperature.
Furthermore, breeders in this country are very vigilant when choosing prospective owners for their dogs and will not allow a Sar to be sold to someone who cannot provide adequately for their animals. So if you live in a plush semi-detached complete with a small garden forget it. But if you live in a ram-shackle property with an adequate area all of its own somewhere out along the back of beyond then youre in luck. :thumbup:


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

The Sar is a specialised dog for specialised people it is not your average dog for your middle class family in a tidy cottage or a suburban home.
I am sure you are correct about the Sar enjoying an outdoor lifestyle.
As that is exactly what they were bred for and as far as I am aware are still used for today.
Give them 30 years though with Sar breeders breeding for family suburban pets then you may find the Sar would no longer be suited to outdoor life, their coats may be a completely different texture to fit in with suburban cleaner lifestyles and putting them into a kennel outdoors may lead to a very unhappy cold dog.


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## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

what happened to chanign/shortening the ad? Just seen the full length go on air?


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## Nina (Nov 2, 2007)

lauren001 said:


> The Sar is a specialised dog for specialised people it is not your average dog for your middle class family in a tidy cottage or a suburban home.
> I am sure you are correct about the Sar enjoying an outdoor lifestyle.
> As that is exactly what they were bred for and as far as I am aware are still used for today.
> Give them 30 years though with Sar breeders breeding for family suburban pets then you may find the Sar would no longer be suited to outdoor life, their coats may be a completely different texture to fit in with suburban cleaner lifestyles and putting them into a kennel outdoors may lead to a very unhappy cold dog.


You just beat me to this :thumbup:

Yes, it appears that JL have not amended the end of their advert since I too saw it in full earlier 

The saga goes on, but they are doing themselves no favours at all.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> *The Sar is a specialised dog for specialised people it is not your average dog for your middle class family in a tidy cottage or a suburban home.*I am sure you are correct about the Sar enjoying an outdoor lifestyle.
> As that is exactly what they were bred for and as far as I am aware are still used for today.
> Give them 30 years though with Sar breeders breeding for family suburban pets then you may find the Sar would no longer be suited to life


(Re: highlighted quote)
This is something we have been very careful to impress upon many folks who have asked us about keeping the Sar.

However, in response to the remainder of your (edited) post; we recently discovered an article regarding the X breeding of both the Sar and the Newfoundland which, being experienced with the Sars many traits, is wholly unsettling. Many years ago they achieved to breed the Moscow Watchdog which is St Bernard and C/O. The resulting animal proved to be of good and patient character ideally suited to apartment life for the trendy dog fancying folks who wanted something a little out of the ordinary.
Despite the Sar being a distant relative of the C/O it is still a very different animal in reality. It is quicker to respond to a situation and has been proven, on many occasions, to far out think a C/O with lightning speed as well as the humans who are complacent enough to believe they have the animal under their full control. These features alone often present the Sar as a disturbingly temperamental dog and an animal that can never be trusted. Some even insist that the Sar should be bred with such characteristics and argue that any which exhibit placid tendencies are not true Sars at all and are virtually worthless as an independent/working dog. 
We have two Sars and they represent both sides of a coin. What concerns us is this, X breeding both the Sar and the Newfie and trying to pass it off as a purebred which doesnt appear to pose any immediate or obvious threat might just be carelessly producing a chimera because youll never breed instinct out of the animal. 
On a lesser note, theyll no doubt want to parade this animal as a Sar and claim to folks that it is a Sar which will be an offence to all those who have dedicated an entire lifetime to preserving the breed and its better reputation, not to mention their struggle to having the dog recognized as a purebred.

Then of course theres always Pride before the proverbial fall the occasional reversion which was never anticipated and the dog momentarily forgets it was a rug slug and challenges old Aunty Mabel whos just popped round unexpectedly for a coffee.


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