# Need advice please with new kittens.



## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Hi everyone, I am hoping to get some reassurance and advice here if possible. I have taken in a stray who had been staying around my house for quite a while now she was obviously pregnant so I managed to get her in and she has been great and very trusting. Friday evening at 5pm she gave birth to one kitten and then 12 hours later she gave birth to another....wasn't expecting that! Anyway the kittens were weighed and one was 103g and the youngest 93g. They are both feeding but mum is not stimulating them and one has had poop stuck to it which she is not eating or cleaning so im not sure how to help. I have used water and cotton wool but as shes feeding them im reluctant to take them away from her. She is quite nervous so im trying not to fuss her to much unless im weighing them.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Some picture's because mum and kittens are just so lovely!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Mum n babies are beautiful. Thank you for looking after them.
Some experienced breeders will be along soon to help. In the meantime, if you have cotton wool pads, dampen it with warm water and clean baby's bum with it after a feed. This will stimulate elimination.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Mum n babies are beautiful. Thank you for looking after them.
> Some experienced breeders will be along soon to help. In the meantime, if you have cotton wool pads, dampen it with warm water and clean baby's bum with it after a feed. This will stimulate elimination.


Thank you I love the colours too and they both look like boys. I did manage to make one urinate with the cotton wool and water so ill keep doing that. She has food down but only wanting to eat the wet food not the dry food im guessing after eating 2 placentas she is full up! I feel a bit overwhelmed I know they have gained weight so im assuming that's a goods sign!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Eating wet food only is fine, just keep it coming. Also try a little butter on the babies bottoms to get her to start toileting them.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Thank you I love the colours too and they both look like boys. I did manage to make one urinate with the cotton wool and water so ill keep doing that. She has food down but only wanting to eat the wet food not the dry food im guessing after eating 2 placentas she is full up! I feel a bit overwhelmed I know they have gained weight so im assuming that's a goods sign!


If possible, I would remove the dry food altogether and just feed her wet, as much as she will eat. She needs to make milk for her babies n wet food will help provide the liquid needed.

Oops! Cross posted with OS


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> Eating wet food only is fine, just keep it coming. Also try a little butter on the babies bottoms to get her to start toileting them.


I have just taken away the dry food and will just offer wet food for now I just kept the dry food there so she always had food down. I will try the butter too thank you. What should normal kitten poop look like? The youngest kitten has had yellow seed like poop? Mum is very long haired do you think I would need to trim around her nipples they seem to find it hard to find a nipple or when they do they will fight over one :Joyful


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Normal poo for an unweaned kitten is like very sticky darkish yellow toothpaste. It has a distinctive smell as well!

Kittens do fight over nipples(even when mum is shorthair), it looks very rough at times, but I would leave alone unless she is pretty relaxed about you fiddling around with her.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> Normal poo for an unweaned kitten is like very sticky darkish yellow toothpaste. It has a distinctive smell as well!
> 
> Kittens do fight over nipples(even when mum is shorthair), it looks very rough at times, but I would leave alone unless she is pretty relaxed about you fiddling around with her.


Ok I'll leave them be I think it's just when I hear kitten screaming it makes me want to jump in help. The youngest one is so loud bless him! I will be weighing at 9pm so im hoping to see good gains! Look at the difference im colour do you think they look premature they seem a bit skinny even though there weights seem to be average?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Many newborn kittens look skinny, by the end of their first week they should be much plumper, and they will be longer as well. They don't look premature to me. They are a good weight and have plenty of fur on their legs.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> Many newborn kittens look skinny, by the end of their first week they should be much plumper, and they will be longer as well. They don't look premature to me. They are a good weight and have plenty of fur on their legs.


Just weighed them (a little early but i seized the opportunity as mum was eating and distracted) boy born Friday 127grams gained 15 grams and boy 2 110grams gained 10 grams


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

They are beautiful, looks like one might be silver tabby and the other will be blue


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> They are beautiful, looks like one might be silver tabby and the other will be blue


I think you might be right I don't have any clue on kittens and colours I was just expecting her to have black or black and white kittens! I am so excited to see them grow


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Kittens weights are great weighed them about 4pm and we're 140g and 126g. I just can't stop looking at them I just love the wavy coat on the little one!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)




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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Both kittens doing well I'm still not sure if mum is stimulating them to pee and pool yet every time I try I can't seem to make them go so maybe she is? The bigger one has a pretty large belly not sure if it's normal full up or kitten or something else? Have tried to get him to poop with no luck! Weight gains are really good! New pictures because they are just too cute not to post!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I found it pretty easy to produce pee, just by gently rubbing their genitals with damp cotton wool. If you get nothing I suspect she is doing the job.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> I found it pretty easy to produce pee, just by gently rubbing their genitals with damp cotton wool. If you get nothing I suspect she is doing the job.


I managed to get wee just no poop they are not happy about me doing it either! Any good ways of getting them poop? How often shoud they go at this age?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

They are never happy about being toileted, including when mum does it. They lie on their backs squealing and trying to push her away with their legs!

What makes you think she isn't doing it?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

I've not seen her lick them once expect once when I put them near her face but most of the time she seems uninterested! I have seen poop on the little one a few days ago that she hadn't cleaned but after that I've seen nothing so maybe I just worrying!


OrientalSlave said:


> They are never happy about being toileted, including when mum does it. They lie on their backs squealing and trying to push her away with their legs!
> 
> What makes you think she isn't doing it?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

She might be uninterested as she 'knows' they don't need doing... It's certainly not something that goes on 24x7. Trouble is once you've got it into your head that she's not toileting them it's hard to let go of the idea.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> She might be uninterested as she 'knows' they don't need doing... It's certainly not something that goes on 24x7. Trouble is once you've got it into your head that she's not toileting them it's hard to let go of the idea.


That's very true I think that is what has happened I'm just worrying more than I should as they are gaining happy and content so I should be happy!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Normal belly or does he look bloated?


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## Northpup (Apr 22, 2018)

They are so beautiful!!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Northpup said:


> They are so beautiful!!


Thank you  I just love them so much and so excited to see what they will look like as they grow.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Hi everyone, so kittens are all gaining weight and doing well. One of them has got a tiny bit of their eyes open is that not every early he is 6 days old?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

It's on the early side, but it's not unknown for kittens to occasionally born with eyes open. Photos? No flash, baby eyes are very sensitive.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> It's on the early side, but it's not unknown for kittens to occasionally born with eyes open. Photos? No flash, baby eyes are very sensitive.


I thought it was early as he isn't actually 6 days until tomorrow as he was born 12 hours after the first! I will get a picture as soon as weigh them again! I did hear something about short haired kittens being quicker to open eyes but I am thinking they will be long haired because of mum?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Not the best picture he was not happy about being held and neither was mum bless her.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

They do not look longhaired to me. The Longhair mutation is recessive so must be inherited from each parent. I think they are very interesting colours. I am looking forward to seeing how they develop as they grow.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> They do not look longhaired to me. The Longhair mutation is recessive so must be inherited from each parent. I think they are very interesting colours. I am looking forward to seeing how they develop as they grow.


Oh really I thought with mum being long haired they would be even if dad was short haired. Although we have no idea with dad but there is a grey long haired cat that roams around near us so it could be him! I have no idea on kittens fur as you can probably tell! I do love their colours though


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Oh really I thought with mum being long haired they would be even if dad was short haired. Although we have no idea with dad but there is a grey long haired cat that roams around near us so it could be him! I have no idea on kittens fur as you can probably tell! I do love their colours though


Perhaps they are longhaired then because a dilute sire would help explain the colours of the kittens. I was just comparing their coats to my shorthaired kittens and they did not seem very different. Definitely two longhair cats will only produce longhair kittens except in the unlikely scenario where they have different longhair mutations. (There are several but I would expect that non-pedigrees would be likely to carry the most common one.)


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Perhaps they are longhaired then because a dilute sire would help explain the colours of the kittens. I was just comparing their coats to my shorthaired kittens and they did not seem very different. Definitely two longhair cats will only produce longhair kittens except in the unlikely scenario where they have different longhair mutations. (There are several but I would expect that non-pedigrees would be likely to carry the most common one.)


Yeah he looks like a lovely cat im not sure if he is homed he spends a lot of time sleeping in my shed ( we left it open for mum cat before we managed to get her in) He is a darker grey like one of the kittens but we unfortunately we have a lot of cats around this area so i'm only guessing he could be dad im not sure what the colour of the lighter one would be called I see some markings on the belly and some funny eyebrow marks :Joyful. Now i'm excited to see their colour and whether they are long or short haired


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Even two short haired cats can produce long haired kittens if both carry the longhair gene. That kitten is beautiful and looks like he could possibly end up long haired, looking at the way the fur lies. But its much too early to tell yet.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> Even two short haired cats can produce long haired kittens if both carry the longhair gene. That kitten is beautiful and looks like he could possibly end up long haired, looking at the way the fur lies. But its much too early to tell yet.


See I didn't realise that short haired cats could have long haired kittens! I have tried looking online a silver tabby to see what he may look like but then where did the tabby come from unless non tabby cats could have a tabby kitten? So many questions I don't have the answer too, I am guessing when I proper breeder does all this they would know what colours etc they would get.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

laurenthecatlover said:


> See I didn't realise that short haired cats could have long haired kittens! I have tried looking online a silver tabby to see what he may look like but then where did the tabby come from unless non tabby cats could have a tabby kitten? So many questions I don't have the answer too, I am guessing when I proper breeder does all this they would know what colours etc they would get.


Agouti is dominant so only needs to come from one parent. However, all cats have tabby patterns so the one you think is tabby may not be. I must say it is difficult to see tabby in the pics.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I think he looks a possible tabby, but some kittens tabby markings tend to disappear as they grow. Kittens change so much during their early weeks that it is very difficult to tell how they will turn out, but he will be gorgeous!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Dilute kittens tend to show tabby markings more even when they are not agouti.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Agouti is dominant so only needs to come from one parent. However, all cats have tabby patterns so the one you think is tabby may not be. I must say it is difficult to see tabby in the pics.





QOTN said:


> Dilute kittens tend to show tabby markings more even when they are not agouti.





Treaclesmum said:


> I think he looks a possible tabby, but some kittens tabby markings tend to disappear as they grow. Kittens change so much during their early weeks that it is very difficult to tell how they will turn out, but he will be gorgeous!


I can only see marks on the belly but he has light hairs and then some darker ones too I have just been calling him light grey :Joyful I will keep updating pictures as they grow


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Some new pictures from today one is one week old today the other one week tomorrow


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Some new pictures from today one is one week old today the other one week tomorrow


These kittens are gorgeous!! Mine will be a week on Sunday it's so exciting watching them grow


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> These kittens are gorgeous!! Mine will be a week on Sunday it's so exciting watching them grow


Isnt it great even though it can be nerve wracking too! its so confusing as they were born on different days :Joyful how many kittens do you have?


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Isnt it great even though it can be nerve wracking too! its so confusing as they were born on different days :Joyful how many kittens do you have?


Five- 4 girls and a boy I think, it's still a bit early but I'm 90% sure. Yeah it's very nerve wrecking... they were all so small when they were born and the runt was too small!! I didn't know if he was going to be ok but he's gotten very big and thriving now


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Five- 4 girls and a boy I think, it's still a bit early but I'm 90% sure. Yeah it's very nerve wrecking... they were all so small when they were born and the runt was too small!! I didn't know if he was going to be ok but he's gotten very big and thriving now


Wow that's a lot of kittens! These 2 still manage to fight over nipples and there are enough to go around! The one born a day later was pretty small weighing 93g now he is the biggest weighing over 200g! Ive just seen your profile picture they are lovely what colour is mum?


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Wow that's a lot of kittens! These 2 still manage to fight over nipples and there are enough to go around! The one born a day later was pretty small weighing 93g now he is the biggest weighing over 200g! Ive just seen your profile picture they are lovely what colour is mum?


Yeah I find it gas when they're fighting over nipples. It's great that the little kitten is weighing more now mum is grey/white and dad is black/white


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> View attachment 358336
> 
> Yeah I find it gas when they're fighting over nipples. It's great that the little kitten is weighing more now mum is grey/white and dad is black/white


The kittens are definitely a mix of both mum and dad  One of mine has already got his eyes open they started yesterday which I wasnt expecting! I was thinking mum was going to have colours like her we weren't expecting the grey!


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> The kittens are definitely a mix of both mum and dad  One of mine has already got his eyes open they started yesterday which I wasnt expecting! I was thinking mum was going to have colours like her we weren't expecting the grey!


Yeah I'm looking forward to them opening their eyes. Do u have names for your two kittens?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Yeah I'm looking forward to them opening their eyes. Do u have names for your two kittens?


We haven't got any idea on names yet im waiting to see how they look when they get a bit bigger I think they will change loads with their colour and fur do you have names?


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> We haven't got any idea on names yet im waiting to see how they look when they get a bit bigger I think they will change loads with their colour and fur do you have names?


No not yet.. still deciding


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> No not yet.. still deciding


You have a few more kittens than I do too! I'm trying to only weigh them once a day now too as I feel I'm getting a bit obsessed to see weight gains! My mum had never heard of weighing kittens she just assumed that they would be fine so when I told her about it she probably thinks I'm crazy!


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> You have a few more kittens than I do too! I'm trying to only weigh them once a day now too as I feel I'm getting a bit obsessed to see weight gains! My mum had never heard of weighing kittens she just assumed that they would be fine so when I told her about it she probably thinks I'm crazy!


I used to be the same:Joyful but now they're stronger and it's clear their getting really big I don't feel the need to weigh them as much as I was the first couple of days.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> I used to be the same:Joyful but now they're stronger and it's clear their getting really big I don't feel the need to weigh them as much as I was the first couple of days.


Weirdly the youngest and smallest one born has over taken the other weight wise I'm guessing you will always get a bigger one and he's feeding all the time it looks like! How heavy are all yours now?


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Weirdly the youngest and smallest one born has over taken the other weight wise I'm guessing you will always get a bigger one and he's feeding all the time it looks like! How heavy are all yours now?


The largest kitten weighs 242g yesterday and the smallest weighs 209g, the rest are in between them weights.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> The largest kitten weighs 242g yesterday and the smallest weighs 209g, the rest are in between them weights.


Wow they are big! Were they a good size born? Mine looked really tiny when they were born all pink and skinny! :Joyful


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Wow they are big! Were they a good size born? Mine looked really tiny when they were born all pink and skinny! :Joyful


They were a good size I think!! There was a really big one compare to the rest and then a really tiny one- still the smallest but he's getting theretheir very funny now the keep hissing when I rub them


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> They were a good size I think!! There was a really big one compare to the rest and then a really tiny one- still the smallest but he's getting theretheir very funny now the keep hissing when I rub them


Aw yeah I've had a few hisses too! Woke up to them like this this morning so relaxed!


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Aw yeah I've had a few hisses too! Woke up to them like this this morning so relaxed!


Aw their very cute


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Aw their very cute


Thank you they have just started playing with each other too even though one doesn't have his eyes open yet and they are licking and grooming each other it's so so sweet! It's very warm here today think mum is getting hot and fed up poor thing!


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## Tashanasha (May 17, 2018)

Those pictures just make my heart melt... :Shamefullyembarrased


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Thank you  I'm obviously biased but I think they are beautiful! I Ive tried googling what colour the lighter one is but cant find any kittens that are his colour minus some pedigree breeds like Persian. Its like the kitten ink ran out when she had them:Joyful


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Almost silver in some places!


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## Tashanasha (May 17, 2018)

I have read that blue cats come in different shades and that the lighter ones are rarer (at least when it comes to BSH).

I'm really not a pro in cat colors  but they do look like they are going to be beautiful cats.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Tashanasha said:


> I have read that blue cats come in different shades and that the lighter ones are rarer (at least when it comes to BSH).
> 
> I'm really not a pro in cat colors  but they do look like they are going to be beautiful cats.


I think mum is such a pretty cat too I can't wait to see how the kittens change it does look funny seeing how dark she is with 2 grey kittens :Joyful


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Thank you they have just started playing with each other too even though one doesn't have his eyes open yet and they are licking and grooming each other it's so so sweet! It's very warm here today think mum is getting hot and fed up poor thing!


Yeah it is very warm today. My kittens always cuddle together to keep warm but today they're by themselves to keep cool and mum is sleeping outside the basket


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Yeah it is very warm today. My kittens always cuddle together to keep warm but today they're by themselves to keep cool and mum is sleeping outside the basket


Yeah mine are sleeping separate too and mum is sleeping on the nice cold floor! Mine keep trying to escape out the bed they are pretty quick!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Yeah it is very warm today. My kittens always cuddle together to keep warm but today they're by themselves to keep cool and mum is sleeping outside the basket


I'd love to see yours when you get some pictures


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> I'd love to see yours when you get some pictures


Yeah I have a few here


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> View attachment 358415
> View attachment 358416
> View attachment 358418
> 
> Yeah I have a few here


Oh my gosh I love the black with the white eye mask!


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Oh my gosh I love the black with the white eye mask!


Yeah he's fair cute. He is the smallest one and there's another black one the same that's the largest


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Yeah he's fair cute. He is the smallest one and there's another black one the same that's the largest


Such lovely colours will they be long haired too? I can't tell with mine they feel so smooth like silky and mum is long haired but it's hard to know!


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Such lovely colours will they be long haired too? I can't tell with mine they feel so smooth like silky and mum is long haired but it's hard to know!


They'll be a mix Mom is long haired and dad is short haired. You can already tell with mine which are long and short haired. I love the fur on your kittens it does look very silky in the photos


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> They'll be a mix Mom is long haired and dad is short haired. You can already tell with mine which are long and short haired. I love the fur on your kittens it does look very silky in the photos


I can't tell with mine at all I don't even know what I'm looking for! :Joyful


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> I can't tell with mine at all I don't even know what I'm looking for! :Joyful


You can more than likely tell depending on how fluffy they are. There's one of mine that is definitely going to be a shorthair, she has barely any fur compare to the other


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> You can more than likely tell depending on how fluffy they are. There's one of mine that is definitely going to be a shorthair, she has barely any fur compare to the other


They are fluffy and smooth ive heard of lots of kittens have fluffy hair but then it changes as they get older. Mum has the longest hair between her paws its so funny and because she is white they have gotten filthy! haha! I can see a peaky bit of eye on the darker one Im not sure how often mum should be feeding at a week old she does take breaks and im not always there to over see im guessing feeding reduces the older they get?


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> They are fluffy and smooth ive heard of lots of kittens have fluffy hair but then it changes as they get older. Mum has the longest hair between her paws its so funny and because she is white they have gotten filthy! haha! I can see a peaky bit of eye on the darker one Im not sure how often mum should be feeding at a week old she does take breaks and im not always there to over see im guessing feeding reduces the older they get?


Yeah I'm no expert but my cat leaves them for a while too and they just sleep so maybe it reduces


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Yeah I'm no expert but my cat leaves them for a


I'm just taking any advice I can from here and hoping that we don't get any problems as I have known people to loose kittens when they are a few weeks and that would be so horrible! One of mine has seemed to colour changed in the last week!


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> I'm just taking any advice I can from here and hoping that we don't get any problems as I have known people to loose kittens when they are a few weeks and that would be so horrible! One of mine has seemed to colour changed in the last week!


Mine have too, the black in their fur has changed to grey/blue.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Mine have too, the black in their fur has changed to grey/blue.


Its funny isn't it the mum of your kittens looks like she has blue in her so yours will get that from her probably! Both mine have their eyes open now they are starting to look like proper kittens now


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Its funny isn't it the mum of your kittens looks like she has blue in her so yours will get that from her probably! Both mine have their eyes open now they are starting to look like proper kittens now


Oh yeah she is definitely blue, none of mine have their eyes open though and their a week today... I can't wait for them to open


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Blue is the dilute form of black. It is recessive so has to be inherited from both parents. (The same process as the longhair mutation.) Therefore the black sire must also carry dilute just as the shorthair parent must also carry longhair to produce longhair kittens..


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Blue is the dilute form of black. It is recessive so has to be inherited from both parents. (The same process as the longhair mutation.) Therefore the black sire must also carry dilute just as the shorthair parent must also carry longhair to produce longhair kittens..


Oh really so mum must carry it then. How would you describe the lighter coloured one? Someone thought silver tabby but minus some spots on the belly I don't see it!


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Blue is the dilute form of black. It is recessive so has to be inherited from both parents. (The same process as the longhair mutation.) Therefore the black sire must also carry dilute just as the shorthair parent must also carry longhair to produce longhair kittens..


Can a blue/white cat and a black/white cat have white and greyish tabby kittens? Even if the parents have no tabby


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Megan1612 said:


> Can a blue/white cat and a black/white cat have white and greyish tabby kittens? Even if the parents have no tabby


The Agouti gene is dominant so two non-agouti cats cannot produce tabby kittens but all cats, self or tabby, have tabby patterns. The agouti and tabby patterns are different genes.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

QOTN said:


> The Agouti gene is dominant so two non-agouti cats cannot produce tabby kittens but all cats, self or tabby, have tabby patterns. The agouti and tabby patterns are different genes.


Two of my cats kittens are white with tabby(grey and black stripes) Mom and dad have no tabby so do the two kittens have a different father?


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

Only just read this thread.
Thank you, Lauren, for taking in the pregnant mum, she found you and obviously trusted you.x The kittens are so cute, and mum is also pretty. Thanks for sharing the photos, and please continue, I'd love to continue to see their journey growing into older kittens.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Megan1612 said:


> Two of my cats kittens are white with tabby(grey and black stripes) Mom and dad have no tabby so do the two kittens have a different father?


They have a different sire if they are real tabbies but self kittens can show their tabby patterns when they are young especially if they are dilute (blue.)


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

QOTN said:


> The Agouti gene is dominant so two non-agouti cats cannot produce tabby kittens but all cats, self or tabby, have tabby patterns. The agouti and tabby patterns are different genes.





















Is this tabby?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Megan1612 said:


> View attachment 358500
> View attachment 358501
> View attachment 358502
> Is this tabby?


Probably unless the stripes fade as the kittens get older. What are the tails like?


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Probably unless the stripes fade as the kittens get older. What are the tails like?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I would say tabby. The leg markings are very pronounced.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

QOTN said:


> I would say tabby. The leg markings are very pronounced.


Ok so will the father of the rest of the kittens be aggressive towards them? Should I be worried I read online that male cats will more than likely kill kittens that aren't theirs


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Megan1612 said:


> Ok so will the father of the rest of the kittens be aggressive towards them? Should I be worried I read online that male cats will more than likely kill kittens that aren't theirs


How on earth would he know they are not his? You are only just learning about basic genetics so don't tell him but I think you have been advised to keep mum and kittens away from him. Not all entire males like kittens even their own.

I think we should apologise to @laurenthecatlover for hijacking this thread.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Jackie C said:


> Only just read this thread.
> Thank you, Lauren, for taking in the pregnant mum, she found you and obviously trusted you.x The kittens are so cute, and mum is also pretty. Thanks for sharing the photos, and please continue, I'd love to continue to see their journey growing into older kittens.


Thank you I am privileged that she has been so trusting and shes such a loving girl and I will definitely be updating here with the kittens progress


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

QOTN said:


> How on earth would he know they are not his? You are only just learning about basic genetics so don't tell him but I think you have been advised to keep mum and kittens away from him. Not all entire males like kittens even their own.
> 
> I think we should apologise to @laurenthecatlover for hijacking this thread.


Ok I'm sorry. I have started to show him the kittens since and yesterday mum is booked in the be spayed. He shows no aggression towards them he actually licks them. I have him neutered and I know he is still fertile for another 9 weeks and I haven't let him near mum, only shown him a kitten at the door for less than 5 minuets

@laurenthecatlover I apologise for hijacking your thread


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Ok I'm sorry. I have started to show him the kittens since and yesterday mum is booked in the be spayed. He shows no aggression towards them he actually licks them. I have him neutered and I know he is still fertile for another 9 weeks and I haven't let him near mum, only shown him a kitten at the door for less than 5 minuets
> 
> @laurenthecatlover I apologise for hijacking your thread


That's ok your kittens are lovely I do love tabby cats and I'm learning so much about how colours etc are passed from parents it's so interesting!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> How on earth would he know they are not his? You are only just learning about basic genetics so don't tell him but I think you have been advised to keep mum and kittens away from him. Not all entire males like kittens even their own.
> 
> I think we should apologise to @laurenthecatlover for hijacking this thread.


No problem would you still call the lighter one blue? He's certainly lighter than his brother and gotten lighter over the week. (Cannot believe they are a week old) they are grooming and playing together it's the best thing to see!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

laurenthecatlover said:


> No problem would you still call the lighter one blue? He's certainly lighter than his brother and gotten lighter over the week. (Cannot believe they are a week old) they are grooming and playing together it's the best thing to see!


I think you realise you have a bit of an oddity there. I would like to wait until they are older to guess. What colour are his paw pads? Never having bred silver cats, I am not familiar with their appearance when they are newborn but the silver tends to come in more as they get older so I would not have expected a silver kitten to be this colour so young. Smoke kittens are often mistaken for ordinary self cats. Sometimes they do not look smoke until they are adult. Shadeds and tippeds tend to show more when they are older too. In any case those genes are not exactly widespread in the DSH/DLH population.

I see the darker one has a classic tabby pattern.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> I think you realise you have a bit of an oddity there. I would like to wait until they are older to guess. What colour are his paw pads? Never having bred silver cats, I am not familiar with their appearance when they are newborn but the silver tends to come in more as they get older so I would not have expected a silver kitten to be this colour so young. Smoke kittens are often mistaken for ordinary self cats. Sometimes they do not look smoke until they are adult. Shadeds and tippeds tend to show more when they are older too. In any case those genes are not exactly widespread in the DSH/DLH population.
> 
> I see the darker one has a classic tabby pattern.


Yeah I can see some tabby under the blue not sure whether that will stay or not! I've looked at shaded and tipped cats and they are mainly pedigree cats and same with silver cats so he's certainly hard to describe!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I think the classic markings are just ghosting. Does he have any markings underneath his body or on his throat?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

No he's not got any marks underneath or on the neck. Both kittens have pink pads the lighter one maybe more pink!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

laurenthecatlover said:


> No he's not got any marks underneath or on the neck. Both kittens have pink pads the lighter one maybe more pink!


The markings are just ghosting.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> The markings are just ghosting.


Thank you, I really don't have a clue about any colours so its nice having someone to find all this out.  its going to be an interesting journey seeing how they will be when they get older. I cant imagine the lighter one getting any lighter, its made the dark eyebrow marks even more apparent!:Joyful


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

When I was a child, my small shorthaired black cat gave birth to a litter of 5. They were all so different from each other, and we had every colour imaginable, apart from ginger. Two of them were the same colours as your two, the darker one grew to be shorthaired blue and the lighter one turned out to be a semi longhaired blue tabby! But you couldn't tell at this age.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> When I was a child, my small shorthaired black cat gave birth to a litter of 5. They were all so different from each other, and we had every colour imaginable, apart from ginger. Two of them were the same colours as your two, the darker one grew to be shorthaired blue and the lighter one turned out to be a semi longhaired blue tabby! But you couldn't tell at this age.


Wow I guess you can never tell how they will turn out! The lighted one has very light almost white roots and then darker tips. The kittens definitely love the attention and a good belly rub and mum is getting lots and lots of love and affection.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

His roots


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I think it is best to assume he is pale blue. There is no sign of an undercoat. I am surprised his pads are pink since that is not the colour for blue. They are usually grey. I can't really find a pic of blue pads unless you can just see these on Bunting, blue spotty.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

If he looks like the kitten above, he will be beautiful 

I think it's possible for blue kittens to have dark pink pads when they are very young. Cats often have markings which get darker as they get older. I'm sure my blue kittens were born with dark pink pads.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> I think it is best to assume he is pale blue. There is no sign of an undercoat. I am surprised his pads are pink since that is not the colour for blue. They are usually grey. I can't really find a pic of blue pads unless you can just see these on Bunting, blue spotty.
> View attachment 358528


Strangely both of them have pink paws maybe they will also change colour!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Treaclesmum said:


> If he looks like the kitten above, he will be beautiful
> 
> I think it's possible for blue kittens to have dark pink pads when they are very young. Cats often have markings which get darker as they get older. I'm sure my blue kittens were born with dark pink pads.


When Siamese kittens are born, they are white although seals and blues tend to be a 'dirty' colour on their bodies compared to the other colours. You can only guess their colours from their pads. Actually I think those pads are rather grey. I don't routinely take pics of kitten pads so I cannot really show you the difference between blue pads and chocolate, lilac or cinnamon or fawn. I am not sure if mum has black feet? If she has, you can compare the colours with hers. If she has white feet they will be pink.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> If he looks like the kitten above, he will be beautiful
> 
> I think it's possible for blue kittens to have dark pink pads when they are very young. Cats often have markings which get darker as they get older. I'm sure my blue kittens were born with dark pink pads.


I agree if he look likes that he will be lovely as that's a beautiful cat! I think


Treaclesmum said:


> If he looks like the kitten above, he will be beautiful
> 
> I think it's possible for blue kittens to have dark pink pads when they are very young. Cats often have markings which get darker as they get older. I'm sure my blue kittens were born with dark pink pads.





QOTN said:


> When Siamese kittens are born, they are white although seals and blues tend to be a 'dirty' colour on their bodies compared to the other colours. You can only guess their colours from their pads. Actually I think those pads are rather grey. I don't routinely take pics of kitten pads so I cannot really show you the difference between blue pads and chocolate, lilac or cinnamon or fawn. I am not sure if mum has black feet? If she has, you can compare the colours with hers. If she has white feet they will be pink.


Mum has white feet and pink pads. I agree they actually look a mauve sort of colour between pink and blue so I imagine they could get darker.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Bunting was born in 1990, my first litter. She had a nice spotty pattern but no type. Her brother was a blue ticked but I cannot find a pic of his pads. Just because I can, here he is with his mum who adored him.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Bunting was born in 1990, my first litter. She had a nice spotty pattern but no type. Her brother was a blue ticked but I cannot find a pic of his pads. Just because I can, here he is with his mum who adored him.
> View attachment 358552


They are both beautiful and have such lovely colours, I just love how mums adore their kittens. I really appreciate how much hard work is put into breeding kittens as doing this one time has been an eye opener on the hard work and effort is put in.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Can a blue/white cat and a black/white cat have white and greyish tabby kittens? Even if the parents have no tabby


How are your kittens getting on @Megan1612


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> How are your kittens getting on @Megan1612


Really good thanks. They were passed out for most of the day because of the heat. How are yours doing?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Non stop moving now! They have been following mum when shes lay on the floor near the bed! Shes not been as hungry today although she has been eating so much wet food the last week and maybe the heat has put her off her food. She is currently in my bathroom as that's where she has been happy but it does get warm in there and as soon as they are up and mobile properly they will be in a play pen.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Non stop moving now! They have been following mum when shes lay on the floor near the bed! Shes not been as hungry today although she has been eating so much wet food the last week and maybe the heat has put her off her food. She is currently in my bathroom as that's where she has been happy but it does get warm in there and as soon as they are up and mobile properly they will be in a play pen.


Play pen is a very good idea, I never thought of one of those. I might get one for mine too. My cat is eating a lot wet food too, I've been giving her 2-3 pouches of kitten food a day and some meat.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Play pen is a very good idea, I never thought of one of those. I might get one for mine too. My cat is eating a lot wet food too, I've been giving her 2-3 pouches of kitten food a day and some meat.


I'm hoping mum will be OK with having them in a playpen! I'll put them in there in the next week when they are walking a bit more. Bless this little one he manages to camouflage in his bed :Joyful


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

So sweet!
TBH, does it matter what colour/breed they are? I mean, they are gorgeous, that's all we need to know. x


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Jackie C said:


> So sweet!
> TBH, does it matter what colour/breed they are? I mean, they are gorgeous, that's all we need to know. x


Very true I would love them no matter what they looked like  x


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Eye's open and starting to look more like kittens :Shamefullyembarrased


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Eye's open and starting to look more like kittens :Shamefullyembarrased


Aw, one of mine started to open her eyes today... she already looks cuter


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Aw, one of mine started to open her eyes today... she already looks cuter


They are changing all the time now its so fun to watch! They love belly rubs too  Are yours all doing well?


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> They are changing all the time now its so fun to watch! They love belly rubs too  Are yours all doing well?


Yeah their doing great. How are yours? Does your kittens mother stay in the basket with them or does she leave until they need to drink again? My cat is always leaving them now and goes into them to clean and feed them.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Yeah their doing great. How are yours? Does your kittens mother stay in the basket with them or does she leave until they need to drink again? My cat is always leaving them now and goes into them to clean and feed them.


She is back and forth now they are a bit older she's always looking at them and now they are awake and moving shew wondering whats going on! Haha! Are yours inside or outside? She is shut in the bathroom so she cant go far. She reacts as soon as I weigh them one is so loud the other is very placid!


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> She is back and forth now they are a bit older she's always looking at them and now they are awake and moving shew wondering whats going on! Haha! Are yours inside or outside? She is shut in the bathroom so she cant go far. She reacts as soon as I weigh them one is so loud the other is very placid!


She's inside... she's usually outside but brought her in when she was having them. Had to put hay in her basket as she refuses to go in if there's a blanket or any other type of bedding and she try's to move kittens outside. There's two in particular that will cry none stop when I pick them up.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> She's inside... she's usually outside but brought her in when she was having them. Had to put hay in her basket as she refuses to go in if there's a blanket or any other type of bedding and she try's to move kittens outside. There's two in particular that will cry none stop when I pick them up.


Is she OK using the litter tray? I was worried with her as she was found outside but she's been really good! I think I saw that kittens need feeding every 2 to 3 hours and she's definitely feeding them more than that.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Is she OK using the litter tray? I was worried with her as she was found outside but she's been really good! I think I saw that kittens need feeding every 2 to 3 hours and she's definitely feeding them more than that.


Yeah she's fine with the litter tray, she used one when she was a kitten. Mine is also feeding them plenty too if it's 2-3 hours so that's good.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Is she OK using the litter tray? I was worried with her as she was found outside but she's been really good! I think I saw that kittens need feeding every 2 to 3 hours and she's definitely feeding them more than that.


 What are you feeding your cat? I've been feeding mine kitten pouches and a small bit of meat but she still seems to be kind of hungry


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> What are you feeding your cat? I've been feeding mine kitten pouches and a small bit of meat but she still seems to be kind of hungry


She is having about 5/6 pouches a day and she always has dry food down. She is on royal canin kitten food and she seems happy on it.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> She is having about 5/6 pouches a day and she always has dry food down. She is on royal canin kitten food and she seems happy on it.


Ok I've been giving her only 4 with dry food. So I'll start giving her some more. Thanks


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Ok I've been giving her only 4 with dry food. So I'll start giving her some more. Thanks


I think it also depends on the make of food as some of the supermarket brands are just full of rubbish so probably don't fill them up as much. She seems to graze all day! Which one has its eyes open?


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> I think it also depends on the make of food as some of the supermarket brands are just full of rubbish so probably don't fill them up as much. She seems to graze all day! Which one has its eyes open?


She doesn't have them fully open, just starting


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> She doesn't have them fully open, just starting
> View attachment 358624
> View attachment 358625


She is so lovely! I love all the different colours you have got from that litter!


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> She is so lovely! I love all the different colours you have got from that litter!


Thanks she looks like her dad. I love their colours too but yours are just gorgeous, I'm in love with all blue cats and blue/ white cats. I think it's a lovely colour


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Thank you I do love their colours especially as they are both blue but so different as well! I think this little guy i's wondering what I am! Haha


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Thank you I do love their colours especially as they are both blue but so different as well! I think this little guy i's wondering what I am! Haha


Oh my god he is just gorgeous. Do you know if there boys or girls?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Oh my god he is just gorgeous. Do you know if there boys or girls?


Both boys  they were properly playing with each other earlier mum was looking over as if to say why are you moving haha! I did record it but it says the file is too big to upload here


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Both boys  they were properly playing with each other earlier mum was looking over as if to say why are you moving haha! I did record it but it says the file is too big to upload here


Aw would have loved to see it. Mine haven't started playing but they do crawl on each other


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## anachronism (Jan 30, 2014)

Is it possible the silveryness is down to fever coat? the pic on post 117 looks similar to this kitte, same darker muzzle and "eyebrows"









https://www.meowingtons.com/blogs/lolcats/amazing-color-changing-kittens


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

anachronism said:


> Is it possible the silveryness is down to fever coat? the pic on post 117 looks similar to this kitte, same darker muzzle and "eyebrows"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I looked at fever coat when looking online but his has gone the other way he was born with darker fur and has now gone silver? Not sure if that can happen too but his fur closer to his skin is lighter than the ends if that makes sense.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

This was him born to now


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

@Megan1612 hoping this works this is the video of them playing


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> @Megan1612 hoping this works this is the video of them playing


That's is adorable how old are yours? Mine aren't as active as your two... they just sleep all day


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

9/10 days its confusing they decided to be born on different days haha!


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> 9/10 days its confusing they decided to be born on different days haha!


Ah that is confusing:Joyful


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Megan1612 said:


> Ah that is confusing:Joyful


She had one Friday at 5pm and the other about 12 hours later which I wasn't expecting haha! I think it may be because they opened their eyes really early it meant they are able to play. The darker one was moving on all fours earlier then fell on its head poor thing!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

anachronism said:


> Is it possible the silveryness is down to fever coat? the pic on post 117 looks similar to this kitte, same darker muzzle and "eyebrows"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@anachronism tried to take a picture to show how light he is am not sure it's the same as fever coat as I think they would have darker under coat? I'm not very clued up on it though.


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## anachronism (Jan 30, 2014)

I'm no expert but it would explain the unusual colour. Time will tell as if it is fever coat they will change colour. Would be interested to hear what the experienced kitten raisers thought


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

anachronism said:


> I'm no expert but it would explain the unusual colour. Time will tell as if it is fever coat they will change colour. Would be interested to hear what the experienced kitten raisers thought


Yes I agree I have little knowledge I've only seen it on Google I'm hoping someone may see this and advice whether it is


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Like most other breeders, I never had a queen ill in pregnancy so have no experience of fever coat but there are plenty of references in past posts on this forum.

https://www.petforums.co.uk/search/11741753/?q=fever+coat&o=relevance&c[node]=10


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Like most other breeders, I never had a queen ill in pregnancy so have no experience of fever coat but there are plenty of references in past posts on this forum.
> 
> https://www.petforums.co.uk/search/11741753/?q=fever+coat&o=relevance&c[node]=10


Thank you I have looked through those and im pretty sure its not fever coat, although im not 100% more so because most of them have had a dark undercoat with the silver on top where as he doesn't have that. If it was that would mum and kittens need to go to the vets?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I would not take them to the vets if they seem well. If mum had an infection in pregnancy, the time to watch the kittens will be in about a month's time when the maternal immunity starts to wane. If she was a stray her body may have been stressed because of deprivation but my limited understanding of fever coat is that it is demonstrating something that happened in the past and is probably no longer ongoing, (Perhaps somebody who knows about it first hand could comment.)


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> I would not take them to the vets if they seem well. If mum had an infection in pregnancy, the time to watch the kittens will be in about a month's time when the maternal immunity starts to wane. If she was a stray her body may have been stressed because of deprivation but my limited understanding of fever coat is that it is demonstrating something that happened in the past and is probably no longer ongoing, (Perhaps somebody who knows about it first hand could comment.)


Thank you im not bothered by the fur colour I was more worried if mum was maybe ill but if it was a past thing then I feel less worried.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

So kittens are now 11/12 days old doing well and have started moving lots more playing with each other! Here are some updated pictures look how big they have gotten!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

While I’ve never had a kitten with fever coat the photos do look like it to me. Will be interesting to see as he gets older


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Yeah I'm excited to see how he changes as he grows up. I wonder what colour he will go most that I've seen were black underneath where as I don't see that so maybe he will possibly be blue like his brother? I will definitely keep updating everyone to see his progression.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Hi everyone, its been so hot here and I think mum is top hot she is eating fine etc but ive seen her pant a few times today mostly when she is in the bed with the kittens and shes either feeding them or grooming them. Ive opened the window when im in there to make sure she doesn't get out but im not sure how to keep her cool? She has water down all the time and even ice but she is only eating wet food so not drinking as much as she would having dry food. She still is eating and toileting fine just wanting to lie on the nice cool floor when she can!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Hi everyone, its been so hot here and I think mum is top hot she is eating fine etc but ive seen her pant a few times today mostly when she is in the bed with the kittens and shes either feeding them or grooming them. Ive opened the window when im in there to make sure she doesn't get out but im not sure how to keep her cool? She has water down all the time and even ice but she is only eating wet food so not drinking as much as she would having dry food. She still is eating and toileting fine just wanting to lie on the nice cool floor when she can!


Have a fan going. Place a dish of water in front of the fan, with a few circuses in it. The col d water will evaporate, coming the temperature


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

We don't open windows here when it's hot as it just lets the hot air in. 
Girls either have a fan near by or are in the air conditioning if it's over 35. Curtains kept closed for their rooms.



SbanR said:


> with a few circuses in it


Autocorrect or is circus water a UK thing?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

35 is almost unheard of in the UK. We start flaking out at 25!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> 35 is almost unheard of in the UK. We start flaking out at 25!


Like we are freezing now in 18c


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> Like we are freezing now in 18c


18C outside is fine, it tends to be warmer inside.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

spotty cats said:


> We don't open windows here when it's hot as it just lets the hot air in.
> Girls either have a fan near by or are in the air conditioning if it's over 35. Curtains kept closed for their rooms.
> 
> Autocorrect or is circus water a UK thing?


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious ice cubes!!!! Can't see even the faintest connection with circus water:Hungover


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

I'm off to buy a fan after work and will definitely do the bowl of water in front of it idea! Kittens are 2 week's today (well one is the other is 2 weeks tomorrow!) So playful and will definitely be on the move soon!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

SbanR said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious ice cubes!!!! Can't see even the faintest connection with circus water:Hungover


I could not figure it out :Woot


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Isn't he beautiful goodness knows what colour he will be when he is older but he's so sweet!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Both boys this morning have managed to get out the bed and find mum where she was cooling down so we are definitely putting up a more secure area! Look how big they are now! Anyone who knows anything about fever coat know when I would see him changing?


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

He is gorgeous, like a little teddy bear!

I definitely think he looks like he might be long haired. It can make the coat appear different when they are small, so that may be why he is a lighter colour. Can't wait to see him in a few weeks!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

I'm so excited to see what he will look like I'm guessing fever coat means he will get darker as the week's go on! Although he was darker born than he is now! They are both so loving and playful typical boy cats!  they are so different though look wise like salt and pepper :Joyful


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## Northpup (Apr 22, 2018)

Are you keeping them? They are beauts!!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Northpup said:


> Are you keeping them? They are beauts!!


I'm very tempted! We will definitely be keeping mum and she will be spayed as soon as she can be and my vet is happy to do early neutering for both kittens if we were to keep them. It's amazing how much they have changed in 2 weeks especially the lighter coloured one he's lost most of his belly spot's now!


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## Northpup (Apr 22, 2018)

laurenthecatlover said:


> I'm very tempted! We will definitely be keeping mum and she will be spayed as soon as she can be and my vet is happy to do early neutering for both kittens if we were to keep them. It's amazing how much they have changed in 2 weeks especially the lighter coloured one he's lost most of his belly spot's now!


I definately think you should keep them!! (If that is feasible obviously) and I would definately be tempted to get them neutered even if you are selling and include it in their price as you obviously don't want people going ooo nice colour and adding to the cat population problem! 
Have you thought of names? Although I suppose if you do you have no chance of parting with them!!!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Northpup said:


> I definately think you should keep them!! (If that is feasible obviously) and I would definately be tempted to get them neutered even if you are selling and include it in their price as you obviously don't want people going ooo nice colour and adding to the cat population problem!
> Have you thought of names? Although I suppose if you do you have no chance of parting with them!!!


Yes I agree I think some people could look at their colours and want to breed from them so even if we didn't keep them I would get them neutered. Have been thinking about names for a while now it's proving difficult and wondering whether it would be easier when they are a bit older! I think because I'm waiting for the lighter one to change colour he may look completely soon as some fever coat kittens ive looked at look so different after a few months!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

laurenthecatlover said:


> I'm very tempted! We will definitely be keeping mum and she will be spayed as soon as she can be and my vet is happy to do early neutering for both kittens if we were to keep them. It's amazing how much they have changed in 2 weeks especially the lighter coloured one he's lost most of his belly spot's now!


Oh please do try n keep them and keep us updated with their progress


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

SbanR said:


> Oh please do try n keep them and keep us updated with their


It's definitely looking more likely that we will keep them! And I'll definitely be updating pictures.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Sorry for the photo spam they just so photogenic and I'm guessing when they are moving it's going to be very difficult!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Look at these big fat babies!  and poor tired hot mum! She has a new cooling mat that she loves though it's a life saver!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

They’re nice and chubby


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

What chunky teddies!!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

spotty cats said:


> They're nice and chubby


Strangely the smaller one that was born at around 90g is now the heaviest! They are proving so difficult to weigh now any good tips on how to keep them still? :Joyful


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Put them in a heavy glass measuring jug or casserole dish.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Oh yes I will try that they just walk off of it now so I cant get a good reading it changes too much! How long do you weigh daily?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Do you mean until what age? 2-3 weeks. I continue weighing weekly, but I have a set of 20kg baby scales which makes it much easier.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> Do you mean until what age? 2-3 weeks. I continue weighing weekly, but I have a set of 20kg baby scales which makes it much easier.


Yes sorry that's what I meant. The kittens are 16/17 days old so ill keep weighing daily for a little bit longer. Their weights are currently 318g and 339g so I think they are doing ok weight wise. The baby scales sounds so much easier mine are electronic kitchen ones and to be honest now they are bigger its so hard as they even cover the number part :Joyful


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

My baby scales are electronic.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> My baby scales are electronic.


I have just looked on amazon I'm going to order some they aren't even that expensive! The kittens love me until I weigh them I feel so guilty!


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

laurenthecatlover said:


> I have just looked on amazon I'm going to order some they aren't even that expensive!


Be sure to check the ones you buy show small enough increments. Some only weigh to the nearest 10g which isn't accurate enough for kittens.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

havoc said:


> Be sure to check the ones you buy show small enough increments. Some only weigh to the nearest 10g which isn't accurate enough for kittens.


Oh yeah I'll check for that before I buy thank you!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Anyone have any idea on when I would see what colour he really is if he has fever coat? Google just seems to show the same cats mainly black or tabby so was much more obvious! The darker one seems to be showing some ghosting marks too Im guessing their colours will go through many changes as they grow? I showed my sister (previous vet nurse) a picture of them both and even she said how odd he is.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> Be sure to check the ones you buy show small enough increments. Some only weigh to the nearest 10g which isn't accurate enough for kittens.


For larger kittens & cats 10g which is what the 20kg scales weigh to is fine.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

So I am finding it so hard to name these little guys does anyone have any suggestions? Pictures from today


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Such cute little teddies! :Kiss

Are they both boys? If so, how about Edward (bear) for one, and Rupert (bear) for the other, ?


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## Silly cats and dogs (Jun 29, 2018)

Ash, Oscar, Ollie or maybe Max


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

chillminx said:


> Such cute little teddies! :Kiss
> 
> Are they both boys? If so, how about Edward (bear) for one, and Rupert (bear) for the other, ?


Yes both boys  love those names they definitely suit bear names!


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Teddy and Eddie


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> Teddy and Eddie


Love that and even rhymes!:Joyful I'm not sure these are kittens I mean look at those ears!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I thought they had a look of blue BSH kittens, with their wide apart slightly bent ears. I remember over 20 yrs ago when my BSH kittens (previous cats) were a similar age (still with the breeder) their ears looked a little like that. Their ears didn't stay like that as they grew up, though were always set quite far apart.

This image is not of my kittens, just a photo I found on the internet of BSH blue kittens. 

http://eastafricatender.com/photos_classifieds/jHSg3s6sROHGitcaQ16Z.JPG


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

chillminx said:


> I thought they had a look of blue BSH kittens, with their wide apart slightly bent ears. I remember over 20 yrs ago when my BSH kittens (previous cats) were a similar age (still with the breeder) their ears looked a little like that. Their ears didn't stay like that as they grew up, though were always set quite far apart.
> 
> This image is not of my kittens, just a photo I found on the internet of BSH blue kittens.
> 
> http://eastafricatender.com/photos_classifieds/jHSg3s6sROHGitcaQ16Z.JPG


They definitely have some similarities and not really knowing who and what breed dad is makes them a complete mystery! Both kittens are so different too, one with potentially fever coat and then the blue one who is showing some lovely ghost marking's as he's growing! And mum is just so beautiful she's been a great mum!


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## Northpup (Apr 22, 2018)

I think themed names definately!! Edwrrd and Rupert are adorable, a few more suggestions:
How about plants/trees eg) Ash, Rowan, Aspen, Oakley or even Forrest!
Nature: Chief, Scout, Sailor, River
Colours: Onyx, Blue (I know I know  )
Favourite TV book or film characters? 
Other animal names: you already have Bear, how about Pheonix, Leo, Jay etc


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## Northpup (Apr 22, 2018)

Also I don't really know about cats or fever coat lol but this picture has the original coat colour look of your lighter boy. Could he turn black or is that impossible?! Lol


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Northpup said:


> Also I don't really know about cats or fever coat lol but this picture has the original coat colour look of your lighter boy. Could he turn black or is that impossible?! Lol
> View attachment 359600


I've looked at fever coat and came across this cat so many times I'm guessing he's pretty famous! Like you have I have no idea on fever coat but I've looked at the kittens roots and they look very light it would be amazing if he turned black :Joyful


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Happy 3 weeks to these beautiful boys!


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

They are adorable! I love their bellies, obviously very well fed and thriving :Happy


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

moggie14 said:


> They are adorable! I love their bellies, obviously very well fed and thriving :Happy


Thank you they are lovely and chubby! Typical lazy hungry boys I think although they are finding their feet! Can definitely hear me and recognise my voice still waiting for those ears to come up though!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Checking out mums food! :Joyful


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## Northpup (Apr 22, 2018)

Ahh!! Do they have names yet?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Northpup said:


> Ahh!! Do they have names yet?


We have gone with teddy (lighter coloured one) and freddy!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Aww, they are so pretty!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Those faces I just don't get bored of seeing these guys


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

What a sweet pair of kittens. I do think one, or possibly both, has fevercoat, as one as a darker face mask but a lighter rest of face and body. I think you certainly have two blues, and I was leaning towards smoke for both but it's possible that the fevercoat is throwing that off a bit and instead you have two blue solids. 

They look very perky and bright eyed, and lovely and chubby


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Rufus15 said:


> What a sweet pair of kittens. I do think one, or possibly both, has fevercoat, as one as a darker face mask but a lighter rest of face and body. I think you certainly have two blues, and I was leaning towards smoke for both but it's possible that the fevercoat is throwing that off a bit and instead you have two blue solids.
> 
> They look very perky and bright eyed, and lovely and chubby


I don't think the darker one does he has blue since he was born but the other one I think could do he is very light even though he wasn't as light born! They are 3 weeks now so hoping I will see what colour he will be soon!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

laurenthecatlover said:


> I don't think the darker one does he has blue since he was born but the other one I think could do he is very light even though he wasn't as light born! They are 3 weeks now so hoping I will see what colour he will be soon!


There are lots of different degrees of fevercoat, but it's difficult to tell completely in photos and much easier in person. It can take quite a number of months to grow out so unless you're keeping them you may not see what colours they are eventually going to be. I'll be interested to see how they grow, to see if they do display silver. Need to go back through and find what colour you said dad might be


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Rufus15 said:


> There are lots of different degrees of fevercoat, but it's difficult to tell completely in photos and much easier in person. It can take quite a number of months to grow out so unless you're keeping them you may not see what colours they are eventually going to be. I'll be interested to see how they grow, to see if they do display silver. Need to go back through and find what colour you said dad might be


Oh yes the photos do not show the how I see them in person so it's difficult! I believe dad is a blue/grey cat that is around here a lot, here he is making himself at home at mine a few months ago! From what I've been told he was left here by someone who moved away why you would leave your cat is beyond me!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Oh yes the photos do not show the how I see them in person so it's difficult! I believe dad is a blue/grey cat that is around here a lot, here he is making himself at home at mine a few months ago! From what I've been told he was left here by someone who moved away why you would leave your cat is beyond me!


Thanks for the pic, kittens definitely aren't silver then so I think both have some measure of fevercoat but again hard to tell fully from pics. Are you keeping them or finding them homes elsewhere?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

We are not sure yet but I would say we are more leaning towards keeping them! Are kittens not born with fever coat or would it happen after as they were not born the colour they are now? The picture below shows what colour they were at a few days old to now!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Rufus15 said:


> Thanks for the pic, kittens definitely aren't silver then so I think both have some measure of fevercoat but again hard to tell fully from pics. Are you keeping them or finding them homes elsewhere?


And here is the closest I can get of what colour they really look like in person in proper day light.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

As far as I understand it, they are born with it but it can develop further after birth. Don't quote me on that though!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Rufus15 said:


> As far as I understand it, they are born with it but it can develop further after birth. Don't quote me on that though!


Ive gone through google about a million times and I think ive seen every cat that has had fever coat! :Joyful As long as they are happy and healthy I don't mind anyway I will make sure to update with any colour change on here I am sure as the weeks go on it will be more obvious.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Oh yes the photos do not show the how I see them in person so it's difficult! I believe dad is a blue/grey cat that is around here a lot, here he is making himself at home at mine a few months ago! From what I've been told he was left here by someone who moved away why you would leave your cat is beyond me!


This is definitely Daddy, I think! I love his beautiful long blue fur and it's hints of a browny colour ( this may be something called tarnish). I believe the babies will both be as beautiful as him! 

It would be lovely if you could adopt and neuter him too. He looks such a lovely boy, far too friendly to be out on the streets fending for himself.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> This is definitely Daddy, I think! I love his beautiful long blue fur and it's hints of a browny colour ( this may be something called tarnish). I believe the babies will both be as beautiful as him!


Yes I believe so too it would certainly explain their colours! He wants to be at mine more and more and I have such a soft spot for him!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> This is definitely Daddy, I think! I love his beautiful long blue fur and it's hints of a browny colour ( this may be something called tarnish). I believe the babies will both be as beautiful as him!
> 
> It would be lovely if you could adopt and neuter him too. He looks such a lovely boy, far too friendly to be out on the streets fending for himself.


I think he would fit in well here and luckily he's being fed here I've paper collared him with no response! As it's been so warm the windows have been open and he's been in most days!


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## Northpup (Apr 22, 2018)

Aww now you have to keep them all!! You have a whole little family! 
What’s mum called?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Northpup said:


> Aww now you have to keep them all!! You have a whole little family!
> What's mum called?


My children (mainly my daughter)have named her Elsa! Shes a frozen fan! :JoyfulI will ring the vets where my sister worked and book him in to be neutered. He is not chipped ive already checked that but I will get him in for a check up which im sure they will do at his pre op.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Wonderful! Now you just need to think of a name for Dad. I love his gorgeous colouring


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> Wonderful! Now you just need to think of a name for Dad. I love his gorgeous colouring


So many names I need to decide on :Joyful He is a beautiful colour its like blue silver and gold in places! No wonder these kittens are so lovely!


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## Northpup (Apr 22, 2018)

Yay!!! Elsa, Freddy, Teddy and...
You could use Rupert from before?


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Or Kristoff from Frozen, or Jespah (from Born Free, son of Elsa the lioness)?


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

I am glad you are helping dad, very handsome cat and looks so friendly.:Cat


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Treaclesmum said:


> Or Kristoff from Frozen, or Jespah (from Born Free, son of Elsa the lioness)?


Aww yes, I had a "Jespah", he was a BSH Silver Tabby and the most gorgeous boy with an amazing personality, RIP, 2011 xx


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Some kitten spam they have 2 lovely soft beds yet chose to sleep on the floor every time! :Joyful


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Oops sorry one more! I love how different these 2 are look wise and personality wise


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Oops sorry one more! I love how different these 2 are look wise and personality wise


Love those toe beans


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Hi everyone is it normal for a blue kitten to go kind of brown? He definitely isn't eating food so it can't be that :Joyful


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Yes it's just tarnishing, it will probably fade at least to a degree.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> Yes it's just tarnishing, it will probably fade at least to a degree.


Ah ok does this happen in all coloured cats then? Ive known black cats go brownish I assumed it was maybe being in the sun. My partner was trying to tell me it was food which I know its not they have no access to food or interest.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Ah ok does this happen in all coloured cats then? Ive known black cats go brownish I assumed it was maybe being in the sun. My partner was trying to tell me it was food which I know its not they have no access to food or interest.


They don't have food as in food in a dish, but they are drinking milk and maybe being messy with milk is part of it. The amount the sun affects cats varies.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

It can happen without sun too, it can be genetic and can be seen in young kittens without much sun exposure


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Rufus15 said:


> It can happen without sun too, it can be genetic and can be seen in young kittens without much sun exposure


Ah I see we had black cats when I was growing up and I remember them going brown as they got older. These 2 just look like they are getting very mucky which I am sure they will be very soon :Joyful the dad has some tarnishing and his belly is silvery brown so maybe it is genetic


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

This is dad (we have assumed) settling in well!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

laurenthecatlover said:


> This is dad (we have assumed) settling in well!


Is dad booked in to be neutered? If not already mentioned, he can still get mum pregnant for a number of weeks post neuter. Sooner he's done, the better, and keep them separate still


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Rufus15 said:


> Is dad booked in to be neutered? If not already mentioned, he can still get mum pregnant for a number of weeks post neuter. Sooner he's done, the better, and keep them separate still


Yeah he is booked in for next week and they will be kept separate probably until the kittens are fully weaned and when mum is less over protective of them as I wouldn't want her stressed out. She will booked in once they are weaned too and then kittens I'm sure my vets are happy to do it from 12 weeks as long as kittens are not under weight


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Rufus15 said:


> Is dad booked in to be neutered? If not already mentioned, he can still get mum pregnant for a number of weeks post neuter. Sooner he's done, the better, and keep them separate still


And she can get pregnant again while she has young kittens.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Yeah he is booked in for next week and they will be kept separate probably until the kittens are fully weaned and when mum is less over protective of them as I wouldn't want her stressed out. She will booked in once they are weaned too and then kittens I'm sure my vets are happy to do it from 12 weeks as long as kittens are not under weight


Excellent news


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

4 weeks old today just love these boys


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

And daddy not missing the outside life at all! :Joyful


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Such a beautiful cat! :Happy:Kiss


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

He looks well settled indeed.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

So teddy and freddy gave mummy a 10 minute break and met daddy! He is so lovely and just walked around with them sniffing them and they just wanted to play! Aren't they just like him!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Hi everyone so kittens are now 4 weeks old is their any reason why Freddie's ears still haven't gone up? I think they look cute and he definitely hears!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Has the Male seen a vet and been vaccinated?

Some ears take longer to stand than others.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

spotty cats said:


> Has the Male seen a vet and been vaccinated?
> 
> Some ears take longer to stand than others.


He's booked in this coming week for neutering and vaccination's. Same with mum but obviously when the kittens are weaned.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I wouldn't be introducing kittens to the male while they are so little and unvaccinated, and he is unvaccinated. Their immune systems aren't up to the amount of germs and illnesses he, as a stray, will carry.

Most breeders have a mostly vaccinated household, and will keep newborns separate until they're 6-7 weeks old.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Rufus15 said:


> I wouldn't be introducing kittens to the male while they are so little and unvaccinated, and he is unvaccinated. Their immune systems aren't up to the amount of germs and illnesses he, as a stray, will carry.
> 
> Most breeders have a mostly vaccinated household, and will keep newborns separate until they're 6-7 weeks old.


To be honest the vaccination thing didn't even cross my mind obviously I can't take back them now meeting but I know now for the future.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Don't worry about it too much. At this age they're still loaded with maternally derived antibodies.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

havoc said:


> Don't worry about it too much. At this age they're still loaded with maternally derived antibodies.


Thank you i hope so. I think because mum is a stray too it just didn't cross my mind with dad.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Kittens are at their most vulnerable when maternal antibodies wane and before they're vaccinated so from anytime around six weeks until vaccination. That's exactly the period many start to allow all sorts of contacts - go figure


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

havoc said:


> Kittens are at their most vulnerable when maternal antibodies wane and before they're vaccinated so from anytime around six weeks until vaccination. That's exactly the period many start to allow all sorts of contacts - go figure


I feel a bit better now I was feeling guilty that maybe I'd put the kittens in danger! I told dad he was due at the vets in a few days I think his face says it all!:Joyful


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Dad cat is very handsome


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

The boys today changing so much and still look so different!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Hi everyone so kittens had a weigh in today as it's been a few days and they are 468grams and 504grams are those OK weights? They are playing jumping and keeping mum on her toes!


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## Little-moomin (Sep 28, 2008)

They are truly beautiful little kittens!!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Little-moomin said:


> They are truly beautiful little kittens!!


Thank you  here they are this morning relaxing after running around playing all night :Joyful


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

The main thing is that they're gaining steadily. What was their previous weight and when was it?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Rufus15 said:


> The main thing is that they're gaining steadily. What was their previous weight and when was it?


They were roughly gaining between 10 and 20 grams a day and its still about the same. They were not very big born on the lower end of average even though the smallest born is now the biggest!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

laurenthecatlover said:


> They were roughly gaining between 10 and 20 grams a day and its still about the same. They were not very big born on the lower end of average even though the smallest born is now the biggest!


That's a good gain, I shouldn't worry


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

I think kitten's are definitely long haired? I wasn't sure when there were younger but they look more like it now!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

The tail is the clue.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

QOTN said:


> The tail is the clue.


There tails are fat and kind of fluffy :Joyful


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

laurenthecatlover said:


> There tails are fat and kind of fluffy :Joyful


Exactly.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Their tails look like Christmas trees! And of course their gorgeous fluffy feet and ears..! They have all the same colours as Dad in their coat, which means they must be long haired as both parents are


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

They're so, so, so cute! And cuddly! Being longhaired is the 'icing on the cake', :Kiss:Kiss:Kiss 

I could not bear to part with them if it were me. But it's possible mum may not want them around once they are weaned; not all mums want their kittens around once the kits are old enough to be independent.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

chillminx said:


> They're so, so, so cute! And cuddly! Being longhaired is the 'icing on the cake', :Kiss:Kiss:Kiss
> 
> I could not bear to part with them if it were me. But it's possible mum may not want them around once they are weaned; not all mums want their kittens around once the kits are old enough to be independent.


Yeah I would love to keep mum dad and them if they all got on so fingers crossed. I'm very fortunate that my sister was a vet nurse for a long time and where she worked is an amazing vet's even doing payment plans! Also there is always someone at home as my partner works here so fingers crossed for a happy mum dad and kittens!


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I kept two of my cats’ kittens when I was growing up, and they all got on fine


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Treaclesmum said:


> I kept two of my cats' kittens when I was growing up, and they all got on fine


It worked out for you but it doesn't always. I had to rehome my first breeding girl as her daughter started bullying her.


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> It worked out for you but it doesn't always. I had to rehome my first breeding girl as her daughter started bullying her.


That must have been horrible  we will see how things go. I think im more worried about mum and dad meeting once they are both spayed/neutered!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Entire cats are different, with their hormones, pregnancies etc upsetting the balance.
With everyone spayed/neutered they’re more likely to get along. 

The males hormones won’t settle for up to 10 weeks, best to wait to introduce the 2 adults until both their hormones have stabilised.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

laurenthecatlover said:


> I think kitten's are definitely long haired? I wasn't sure when there were younger but they look more like it now!


I really hate to be a stickler on fur length, but only Persians are long haired (it's a pet peeve of mine that "domestic longhair" is used, although I understand the reasoning). Your kittens will probably be semi longhair to some degree


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Rufus15 said:


> I really hate to be a stickler on fur length, but only Persians are long haired (it's a pet peeve of mine that "domestic longhair" is used, although I understand the reasoning). Your kittens will probably be semi longhair to some degree


Genetically they are all the same - they have two copies of the longhair mutations M1, M2, M3 or M4. They don't have to be the same, they behave as if there is one single mutation, so I have no problem with calling them longhair as that's what they are genetically - Persians, Coones, Balinese, Domestics, any cat you care to mention which isn't genetically shorthair. The difference in coat quality between all of these is down to polygenes, just as the exact shade of coat colour, quality of tabby pattern, clearness in selfs is, not to mention all the variances in type.

The distinction came about in the show world probably from wanting to separate Persians from whatever the next (genetically) longhair breed was. Going by the old breed numbers that was the Birman, but I could be completely wrong about that.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Just to add, that the FGF5 mutation that Persians have is the most usual one (M4) common to most cats including domestic longhairs.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I have just looked at the catalogue of the first cat show I attended, the National in 1977, and the only longhair breeds were Persians, Birmans and Turkish and they were all in the Longhair section.

I do remember when the Maine Coons were at Preliminary status, we used to have them in the Assessment classes at our Siamese and Oriental show.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I have a lot - and I mean A LOT - of old catalogues - and the development of the various sections at a GCCF show can be traced. But GCCF isn't the only registry with 'oddities'. The CFA only calls a cat a Siamese if it's seal, blue, chocolate or lilac. Other colours are called 'colourpoint shorthairs' even though the SoP is almost identical!


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Yep Birmans were shoved in with Persians under the Longhair banner back in the day. Plus Persians didn't used to have hair the length they do now, that was developed by breeders over time. 'Semi Longhair' is just a show world term I believe.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

This made me wonder when the SLH section was created. It was 1993.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> This made me wonder when the SLH section was created. It was 1993.


Thanks that saves me trawling the archives! What breeds were in it original - Birman and Turkish Van I imagine - but any others? Guess I could go looking for a 1993 catalogue...


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Championship status Birman and Turkish
Provisional status Birmans, Turkish, Maine Coon
Preliminary status Ragdoll and NFC


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Happy 5 weeks to these 2 boys! It's gone so fast!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Hi everyone so as the kittens are getting older I'm trying to prepare for weaning and litter training. I have put a litter tray with them and they see mum eat and drink so do I offer the same food as mum? Any go to foods you would recommend for weaning that kittens really enjoy? Obviously I know they will wean in their own time and they still seem very happy feeding off of mum and still do a lot!


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

laurenthecatlover said:


> I have put a litter tray with them and they see mum eat and drink so do I offer the same food as mum?


That's what I do, just mash it down well as they are not used to lumps. Warming it helps to attract them and smearing a little across their mouths encourages them to lick it off, get the taste and hopefully start to try eating from the plate.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Ours eat mums raw or tinned food, they just toddle over and start eating when ready. They won't need a tray until they're eating.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> Ours eat mums raw or tinned food, they just toddle over and start eating when ready. They won't need a tray until they're eating.


The same here, I make sure they can get to mum's food. Be warned, some kittens start by swimming in it!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Thank you I've not noticed in any interest in food or water yet minus some splashing in it! It was very warm today even the kittens were enjoying some time in the cooling mat!


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Hope they are still coping ok in this heat! How are they coming on with their weaning, are they showing any more interest yet?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> Hope they are still coping ok in this heat! How are they coming on with their weaning, are they showing any more interest yet?


They seem fine with this heat they sleep on mums cooling mat as well so that helps. Yesterday teddy started drinking water I was like a proud mum when I saw him!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Just chilling! They love mums tail too it's much more fun to play with than their toys


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## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

This is one of my favourite threads ever. Thank you so much for providing us with plentiful updates, @laurenthecatlover


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

SuboJvR said:


> This is one of my favourite threads ever. Thank you so much for providing us with plentiful updates, @laurenthecatlover


Thank you it's certainly been a great journey having these babies plus mum and dad. Both kittens are now drinking water I've not seen any eating yet! They are 6 weeks tomorrow it has gone so fast!


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

How are they doing? Need more pics!!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> How are they doing? Need more pics!!


They are doing great eating and drinking! 7 weeks old today!


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Few more pictures


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## SuboJvR (Mar 28, 2018)

Aaah they're so fluffy!! So cute !!


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Beautiful kittens


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

Gorgeous! Is that the darker one in the second post on its own, or is there a secret third one we’ve not seen yet


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

Treaclesmum said:


> Gorgeous! Is that the darker one in the second post on its own, or is there a secret third one we've not seen yet


Ha ha yeah its just freddy no secret kittens! Anyone have good litter training tips? They are just going where ever they like at the moment even though they have a litter tray.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

laurenthecatlover said:


> Ha ha yeah its just freddy no secret kittens! Anyone have good litter training tips? They are just going where ever they like at the moment even though they have a litter tray.


Wipe up their pee with kitchen towel, put it in a kitten tray with some newspaper if you like and put the tray where they went. Just keep doing this until they get the message. You must make sure you thoroughly clean the soiled area so the tray smells of them and the rest of the room doesn't. When they are used to going in the trays you can add a little litter at one end of the tray. I always used wood pellets so would put a few where they had weed in the tray and it goes to sawdust, Don't clean the trays completely until they are trained. Gradually increase the litter and eventually get rid of the paper. Then reduce the number of trays. They will usually have favourites. Then gradually move the remaining trays a few inches at a time to the most convenient place.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Are they confined to a playpen or free in a room?


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## laurenthecatlover (Jun 15, 2018)

spotty cats said:


> Are they confined to a playpen or free in a room?


They are free in the room now.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

The bigger the area the more trays you will need, now they’re used to going anywhere it may take longer to get them in the right spot.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

I keep coming into this section hoping for more photos. How are the babies doing @laurenthecatlover . Photos pleeeeese


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2018)

@laurenthecatlover any updates??


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