# At my wits end with my kitten :(



## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

Hello I'm new here, I was wondering if anyone can help with my problem.

Me and my husband got Daisy about three months ago, she's now 5 months old. The first few months she was cuddly and loving, always wanted to sit in our laps etc. She was active and liked to play rough as well, but we tried to divert her energy into her toys, cat tower etc.

A few weeks ago she began to bite when we tried to pick her up. Not quite hard enough to break the skin but not really play biting. She would also scratch and struggle. Now it's got to the point where she will randomly turn and attack (claws out) if we try and stroke her 80% of the time. She's never been hurt or had any trauma associated with being stroked as far as I know. She has lots of toys, time with us in the house, a massive cat tower etc. To emphasise, she attacks randomly, not just when she's playing. She could be just walking about and I'll try and stroke her and get scratched.

It's like she's had a complete change in personality, she seems neurotic and easily spooked now, as compared to a few weeks ago. I'll walk in a room and she'll puff up and race away seeming terrified. The only time she will accept affection is in the morning when she jumps on the bed and will rub her head on me and purr etc.


I need to take her to the vets soon to get her spayed and chipped so she can go outside (and hopefully burn off some energy) but I'm terrified she will attack him, I'm scared to hold her now because she attacks me and she's even worse with my husband. The behaviour is getting worse and I'm so upset about it. Could she be in pain? I've noticed some head shaking and she also squints one of her eyes, also recently I've noticed her lying on her side randomly in the middle of whatever she's doing and looking at me...I'm sorry if I've been rambling but does anyone have any advice? Does this behavioural change sound normal? We've always had rescue cats but I've never raised a kitten from so young.


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## Julie100uk (Oct 10, 2013)

That must be awful for you. I'm not an expert so can give specific advice but I would take her for a vet check as soon as possible as she may have an issue or be in pain. I would imagine vets are used to it, so I shouldn't worry! good luck and I hope you get to the bottom of it.


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## Jannor (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd say either she's in pain or something else has frightened her badly.

You could try a Feliway in case it is fear/stress to try and calm her down a little but she does need a vet check. You never can tell how they'll be at the vets, I used to have a right terror who was good as gold at the vets - I'm sure they thought I was making it up!


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

The vet loves her and she's been fine up till now having her vaccinations and weight done. I don't think she'll be as good. Problem is, I have no money (payday was so long ago!!) so might have wait ten days or so.

I've just been out to see her and her pupils are dilated, like she's in constant hunting mode...she just looks nervy. I don't know why she's still affectionate early in the morning it doesn't make sense


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Oh dear, has she had a fall or a bump? just thinking with the head shaking and randomly lying on her side, sounds as if it could be neurological to me, 
I wondered if she has had a stroke of some kind or a brain injury, 
I wonder if shoshanah might have any idea, poor you and poor kitten, it doesnt sound normal does it, what breed is she, not that it makes any difference,just curious
I hope you get some answers when you take her to the vets


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

She's five months - could she be about to come into heat? This might make her edgy and aggressive (I am speculating here as although I have had female cats, I have had early neutering and they didn't get to that stage) but it wouldn't surprise me if lady hormones did that (just thinking of what my lady hormones did to me).

Of course this wouldn't fit in withe the squinting act, but if you are anxious about her maybe you are oversensitive to other things?


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Wilks23 said:


> Hello I'm new here, I was wondering if anyone can help with my problem.
> 
> Me and my husband got Daisy about three months ago, she's now 5 months old. The first few months she was cuddly and loving, always wanted to sit in our laps etc. She was active and liked to play rough as well, but we tried to divert her energy into her toys, cat tower etc.
> 
> ...


I agree with the other replies a trip to the Vet might be best! Shaking her head could also mean an ear infection or mites! this could make her grouchy! You could try Zylkene which is for stress I find it very good for my over excitable cat! it's a supplement not a drug but for me has better results than Feliway! Good luck I hope you can find out very soon why she is behaving this way it's not nice for either you or the cat! Do you play with her a lot with interactive toys like Da Bird/Flying Frenzy? She might also like the Kong Kickaroo which helps them let off steam!


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

She's a DSH, we got her from a farm aged 9 weeks, mum cat seemed nice enough.




She still wants to be in the same room as me, she follows me around everywhere like she's always done, it's just that she then acts like I'm about to attack her, puffs up and scratches when I stroke her. I think it doesn't help that I'm now nervous about touching her anywhere but her head. She loves her head being scratched and her ears being gently pulled so it might be something to do with her ears. I really hope it isn't neurological and that it's something that can be sorted out at the vets we have really good insurance anyway so I'll do whatever is needed to make her feel better. I'm so worried because we don't have the money for a checkup for another ten days 

Actually, watching her sleep, she is sort of scrunching up her face like it itches and like I've said, shakes her head a lot. Can't see any black bits in there though...


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

Soozi said:


> I agree with the other replies a trip to the Vet might be best! Shaking her head could also mean an ear infection or mites! this could make her grouchy! You could try Zylkene which is for stress I find it very good for my over excitable cat! it's a supplement not a drug but for me has better results than Feliway! Good luck I hope you can find out very soon why she is behaving this way it's not nice for either you or the cat! Do you play with her a lot with interactive toys like Da Bird/Flying Frenzy? She might also like the Kong Kickaroo which helps them let off steam!


I also worry that she's not stimulated enough, she has a squeaky bird, a couple of "thing on a string" toys, a little kong toy, lots of stuff. I'll look into the toys you suggested, thanks


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

lostbear said:


> She's five months - could she be about to come into heat? This might make her edgy and aggressive (I am speculating here as although I have had female cats, I have had early neutering and they didn't get to that stage) but it wouldn't surprise me if lady hormones did that (just thinking of what my lady hormones did to me).
> 
> Of course this wouldn't fit in withe the squinting act, but if you are anxious about her maybe you are oversensitive to other things?


Could be-I think my vets do it at 6 months, as soon as I get paid I'll make enquiries. There's a cat that comes into our garden and hides in the grass, maybe she can smell it and is stressed, it left a dead bird the other day


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

In my opinion this is a growing phase. If she had other cats around they would be teaching her what is acceptable. When she bites, say a loud ouch, hiss and ignore her.


Then give her a stuffed animal about her size that she can kick and beat up to her heart's content.

Don't try to pet her since this seems to be over stimulating.

Do play with her. Just being in your presence isn't enough. Just having toys isn't enough. Kittens have boundless energy and need an outlet for it. Play games with her that get her running and climbing at least four times a day, making each session last a half hour.

Use string on a stick, wand toys and toys that can be thrown and chased down. Don't be surprised if she brings them back for more. Watch her carefully during these games and she will tell you what she likes best. Make her go up and down that cat tree as often as possible. Create other places for her to jump and climb, shelves on the wall, furniture set up so she can go around a room without getting on the floor, stuff like that.

Don't worry about if she will "attack the vet". Vets have seen it all, it's part of their job.

However I do think it is time she was spayed.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Shaking her head a lot suggests to me that there may be something going on. You do need to get her checked out as soon as you can.

Liz


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

Definitely need to play interactively with her more  I do play with her but probably not enough. I will take her to the vet for the head shaking ASAP. Funnily enough my husband was stroking her a minute ago and she was fine for a good few minutes before attacking him, but we'll try and pet her less if it's over stimulating her. I just want her to grow into a happy cat


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Two possibilities - one is that she is in pain from some kind of injury or health issue, as being in pain can certainly make any cat grouchy (or human). 

Is she eating well and pooing and peeing normally? Any signs of straining in the litter tray, or excessive visits to it? 

The other possibility is that her changed behaviour is hormonal, due to sexual maturity. Whilst most female kittens become increasingly affectionate when they are in heat, wanting more and more strokes etc from their human companions, there are some who become a bit volatile and nervy. 

I would get her examined by the vet a.s.a.p. for any possible health issues, and also get her booked in for a spay. 

Meanwhile I would respect her expressed wish not to be stroked at present. Leave her to come to you if she wants affection. Don't go to her, but don't ignore her, talk to her and offer playtime several times a day for half an hour at a time with interactive toys such as Da Bird or Flying Frenzy. 

I would also avoid picking her up unless it is essential e.g. to put her in her carrier for the vet visit. Some cats hate being picked up anyway, and it could be just that as she matures she has decided she dislikes it. Or it could be that she is in pain, e.g. perhaps her tummy hurts, and being picked up is uncomfortable for her.


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

chillminx said:


> Two possibilities - one is that she is in pain from some kind of injury or health issue, as being in pain can certainly make any cat grouchy (or human).
> 
> Is she eating well and pooing and peeing normally? Any signs of straining in the litter tray, or excessive visits to it?
> 
> ...


She is going to the litter tray a bit more just to dig in it, but she seems to be pooing and peeing fine. Maybe a bit more but she's eating more and it's not diarrhoea. We played with her a bit more this evening and there's a very slight improvement in her behaviour. She's definitely got itchy ears though  will book her in for a spay as soon as I get paid


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

Ok just noticed soft smelly poo in the litter tray  this would happen when I physically have no money to get her to a vet. I'm so worried!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Wilks23 said:


> Actually, watching her sleep, she is sort of scrunching up her face like it itches and like I've said, shakes her head a lot. Can't see any black bits in there though...


You mentioned she'd starting biting, plus the above. At 5 months she will be teething. Most will sail through it with little problem but a few can be in considerable pain so it's worth considering and seeing the vet asap.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Wilks23 said:


> Ok just noticed soft smelly poo in the litter tray  this would happen when I physically have no money to get her to a vet. I'm so worried!


Just noticed you said this, also. Diarrhoea is another side effect of teething.


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

gskinner123 said:


> Just noticed you said this, also. Diarrhoea is another side effect of teething.


Oh really? That's a relief-I'll still take her to the vets obviously but feel a bit better. She's pretty much behaving normally otherwise...


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

If shes shaking her head and you think her ears are irritating her she could have ear mites, you really need to get her to a vet asap, when you get a kitten you need to have the resouces to to see that she she is healthy, it souds as if this kitten has been sold or given away with some health issues, not looked after by the breeder, 
Can you join the PDSA ,i think they only charge about £7-50 to join then you pay a donation, its not fair to leave her with all the problems, worms ,ear mites etc


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## georgypan (Mar 31, 2014)

Have you used your vet before and does he know you? I think a reputable vet would not allow an animal to suffer because of lack of money. You could ask him if you could settle up when you get paid.


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## trudy (Oct 26, 2011)

People like to forget that it is actually the responsibilty of the animal owner to take care for the welfare of their pets and to consider if they have the finanical resources for veterinary care before they get one.
vets get burned all the time by clients who are unable to settle payment on time and promise to pay later.
it is then always the nasty,bad non animal loving vet who gets slaged off when they refuse treatment without payment.
vets have a duty of care and this means emergency treatment must be provided even if a client can not pay.
emergency treatment could be pain relief or euthanasia if an animal is suffering badly .


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

I can understand if people's financial situations change it must be very difficult if an owner loses their job which is happening all too often, however the animal must be taken to a Vet when it is deemed necessary so I would suggest that the OP rings RSPCA or Cats protection, anywhere that might be able to offer advice regarding a Vet who will check over/treat the cat without delay! Borrow the money if you have to! Please start ringing round!


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

jaycee05 said:


> If shes shaking her head and you think her ears are irritating her she could have ear mites, you really need to get her to a vet asap, when you get a kitten you need to have the resouces to to see that she she is healthy, it souds as if this kitten has been sold or given away with some health issues, not looked after by the breeder,
> Can you join the PDSA ,i think they only charge about £7-50 to join then you pay a donation, its not fair to leave her with all the problems, worms ,ear mites etc


Umm she's been wormed, vaccinated etc...what gave you the idea she wasn't? 

To clarify the situation, we do have enough money to look after her (we both work very hard) so we're not being irresponsible, it's just been a rough month money wise like we all get bad months.I was remarking on the fact that stuff like this always seems to happen when I'm running out of money-NOT that I'm not able to pay for her care. I'm not neglecting her.

For everyone that has given me help and advice, Daisy is now feeling much better and is back to her old self.


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

Soozi said:


> I can understand if people's financial situations change it must be very difficult if an owner loses their job which is happening all too often, however the animal must be taken to a Vet when it is deemed necessary so I would suggest that the OP rings RSPCA or Cats protection, anywhere that might be able to offer advice regarding a Vet who will check over/treat the cat without delay! Borrow the money if you have to! Please start ringing round!


See last post for clarification Daisy is now much better and back to her old naughty tortie self :001_tongue: Thank you everyone!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

Wilks23 said:


> See last post for clarification Daisy is now much better and back to her old naughty tortie self :001_tongue: Thank you everyone!


Great news! I hope you didn't think I was being judgmental regarding the Vet bill! I have been there so do understand that unavoidable situations arise and can make life difficult and expenses crop up just when you can least afford it! Really pleased to hear all is well!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Wilks23 said:


> Umm she's been wormed, vaccinated etc...what gave you the idea she wasn't?
> 
> To clarify the situation, we do have enough money to look after her (we both work very hard) so we're not being irresponsible, it's just been a rough month money wise like we all get bad months*.I was remarking on the fact that stuff like this always seems to happen when I'm running out of money-*NOT that I'm not able to pay for her care. I'm not neglecting her.
> 
> For everyone that has given me help and advice, Daisy is now feeling much better and is back to her old self.


Agree here! Our animals are very rarely poorly, but you can bet your life that if one of them decides to swallow a wasp, they will do it on a Bank Holiday, and set the vet's accountant rubbing his hands with glee!


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## trudy (Oct 26, 2011)

well I am glad the kitten made a miracle recovery without needing a vet

the comment about the vets accountant rubbing his hands with glee reflects a rather strange opinion about your vet.
do you really think all vets are just waiting hopefully something bad might happen to your pets preferably ooh so they can line their pockets?


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## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

It might be an idea for you and/or your partner to consider getting a credit card for this sort of incident in future, or get your cat insured. With-holding vet treatment because you can't afford it for a potentially sick animal is not on, in any circumstance. One of the key freedoms for pets is freedom from pain, and not being able to pay a vet bill is a sorry excuse in my opinion for letting your cat suffer. Even if it is a bad month, finding £30 for a vet consult isn't impossible.

I don't mean this to sound rude or mean, but I just feel so sorry for animals whose owners can't "afford" to pay vet bills when the reality is just a bit of future planning (having a savings account for emergencies, having a credit card, insurance" is so easy to do.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

trudy said:


> well I am glad the kitten made a miracle recovery without needing a vet
> 
> the comment about the vets accountant rubbing his hands with glee reflects a rather strange opinion about your vet.
> do you really think all vets are just waiting hopefully something bad might happen to your pets preferably ooh so they can line their pockets?


Not all, no. But I was charged £95 to euthanise a 22 year old cat - I thought that was excessive.

But what I was really trying to say was that when things happen, it always seems to be out of surgery hours, meaning an emergency vet rather than a normal appointment, and consequently a higher bill.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Wilks23 said:


> Umm she's been wormed, vaccinated etc...what gave you the idea she wasn't?
> 
> To clarify the situation, we do have enough money to look after her (we both work very hard) so we're not being irresponsible, it's just been a rough month money wise like we all get bad months.I was remarking on the fact that stuff like this always seems to happen when I'm running out of money-NOT that I'm not able to pay for her care. I'm not neglecting her.
> 
> For everyone that has given me help and advice, Daisy is now feeling much better and is back to her old self.


Sorry i was wrong about her not being wormed, not sure why i thought she hadnt been, but it did sound as if she wasnt very well, shaking her ears etc, they do that when they have ear mites or an ear infection, in which case she would be feeling pretty bad tempered i would think, especially if she has ear pain,and would be liable to strike out
Also it did sound as if you were having problems affording vets fees, which is why i suggested PDSA


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## trudy (Oct 26, 2011)

the reason ooh care costs more money is because because it also costs the practice more money to provide this service.
working ooh or beeing on call is extremly stressfull and unhealthy and it is a service which actually is a finanical loss for most practices but they provide it for their clients peace of mind and because they legaly have to although they can pass their ooh cover on to another pracitce or emergency provider but have to pay them for their sevice.

it is also ooh which creates most outstanding bills who are never recovered because vets are emotionally pressured by clients who turn up with an ill pet and no means to pay.
no vet just wants to put an animal to sleep because of lack of funds,so you do whats reasonable possible and bite the bullet but it can ruin a practice and make vets very cynical if they hear another promise of somebody who will defenatley settle the bill asap.

if somebody doesn't even have £30 or so for a day visit to the vet it doese make me wonder indeed how much thought went into getting a pet and even if you fall on hard times that usually doesn't happen out of the blue and people could try to set some money aside monthly for emergencies


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

trudy said:


> the reason ooh care costs more money is because because it also costs the practice more money to provide this service.
> working ooh or beeing on call is extremly stressfull and unhealthy and it is a service which actually is a finanical loss for most practices but they provide it for their clients peace of mind and because they legaly have to although they can pass their ooh cover on to another pracitce or emergency provider but have to pay them for their sevice.
> 
> it is also ooh which creates most outstanding bills who are never recovered because vets are emotionally pressured by clients who turn up with an ill pet and no means to pay.
> ...


I think your first post in this thread and the last paragraph in this one is a little mean and a tad judgemental.
My dog has required emergency out of hour care twice and both times I have paid at a later date.
Your first post insinuated (to me) that people frequently don't pay and want it free.
The majority of people have every intention of paying when they can.

We are not 'poor', indeed, some months my husband can bring home in excess of three grand.
However, his work is unstable. It's dependant on calls and weather.
We have had months so bad we have barely scraped a grand.
Additionally, due to the fact that I am a housewife and the wages come in monthly, that last week before the end can sometimes be a struggle and things have to wait until payday. 
Does that make me irresponsible for have pets? 
Even though they are well cared for and if and when they need veterinary attention the money is paid? Just not there and then?

Most people fall on hard times occasionally, most people have bad months.
That doesn't mean it was irresponsible of them to get a pet. 
If the only people responsible enough for pets were those that had a constant supply of emergency money at the ready in excess of at least £100 if we are talking about out of hours, very few people would have pets.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I would think myself very lucky if i had 3 grand a month,or even 1 grand a month, and maybe with that coming in would have savings, not everyone has anything like that income, but it did sound from the OPs first post that she was struggling all the time, obviously we know different now
Most vets these days will not treat your animal witout paying at the time
One vet here put a notice out saying if bills wre not paid at the time he wouldnt let the pet home, now that is bad :huh:


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I would think myself very lucky if i had 3 grand a month,or even 1 grand a month, and maybe with that coming in would have savings, not everyone has anything like that income, but it did sound from the OPs first post that she was struggling all the time, obviously we know different now
> Most vets these days will not treat your animal witout paying at the time
> One vet here put a notice out saying if bills wre not paid at the time he wouldnt let the pet home, now that is bad :huh:


we count ourselves lucky.
But there is always something that needs doing, we try every month to save and the money goes..
Bills, house repairs, the kids, food, clothing, medication, insurance, the list just goes on and on and on.
What I am saying is, you can't make judgements on people being bad owners just because they are having a bad month.


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## trudy (Oct 26, 2011)

well as i am a vet and work ooh i can tell you that there are indeed many clients who either do not want to pay or are unable to pay.
again having the means to care for a pet is the responsibilty of the owner not the vet.
you will hardly find any other business giving you a service for free or with the promise to pay later so why are vets supposed to do so?
they are forced to walk a very thin line as i already said no vet wants to refuse treatment or put an animal to sleep due lack of money but where do you draw the line. is it allright to safe the pet who only needs minor treatment and absorb the costs ? what about a broken leg, caesarian,pyometra etc all treatable conditions but costly.
you have no idea under how much pressure a vet comes and how horrible it is if you are forced to pts an animal due lack of finances so do not tell me i am judgmental because i experience these situations all the time and it is soul destroying to refuse treatment and dealing with an upset client who shifts the blame to the gready vets .


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Have to agree with you there Trudy it is our responsibility as pet owners to make sure we can afford or have a way to access money if needed in an emergency to take care of the animals we take on. Humans die in America and all over the third world because they don't have the money to pay for their own healthcare. We have the NHS so we forget sometimes that life isn't as cushy for everyone else. We're also lucky to have animal charities, but that safety net cannot replace taking responsibility. 

On the other side we take on a pet with a commitment of 10 or 20 years or more but we don't know what's around the corner, when you're going to hit hard times or even end up losing your home - so when someone is struggling to feed a pet or pay their vet bills, who's to judge? I admit to having the same initial reaction, why take on a life you can't afford, but then I remember where I was 3 years ago, 5 years ago, 14 years ago, and then I'm a little less inclined to judge others.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

trudy said:


> well as i am a vet and work ooh i can tell you that there are indeed many clients who either do not want to pay or are unable to pay. again having the means to care for a pet is the responsibilty of the owner not the vet. you will hardly find any other business giving you a service for free or with the promise to pay later so why are vets supposed to do so? they are forced to walk a very thin line as i already said no vet wants to refuse treatment or put an animal to sleep due lack of money but where do you draw the line. is it allright to safe the pet who only needs minor treatment and absorb the costs ? what about a broken leg, caesarian,pyometra etc all treatable conditions but costly.
> you have no idea under how much pressure a vet comes and how horrible it is if you are forced to pts an animal due lack of finances so do not tell me i am judgmental because i experience these situations all the time and it is soul destroying to refuse treatment and dealing with an upset client who shifts the blame to the greedy vets .


Welcome to Pet Forums Trudy - your professional POV will be much appreciated here.

I do understand it is an awful position for vets to be placed in if they are presented with a pet needing emergency treatment and the owner is unable to pay for it.

I do not envy you vets one bit, and I too would find it a horrible dilemma, having to make a decision about whether an animal companion should live or die, based upon the likely cost of treatment.

However, realistically there are always going to be situations where pet owners are financially compromised and at that particular time unable to pay for essential emergency treatment. Those owners who are not working and are claiming welfare benefits may have access to free treatment for their pet through the PDSA, or an RSPCA Hospital, but for those who are employed this is not an option.

So what is to be done?

I think, in view of the fact costs for veterinary treatment are high these days (along with the rise in many other costs) that much more emphasis should be put upon the need for pet owners to get their pets insured as soon as they adopt them.

Education of the general public is what is needed - perhaps a national campaign by a large charity such as Cats Protection for example on the subject of "Responsible Pet Ownership", which could include making sure outdoor cats are spayed/neutered before they reach sexual maturity.

I am sure many vets are in regular touch with the animal welfare charities and could instigate a discussion with them re: such a plan.


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

trudy said:


> well as i am a vet and work ooh i can tell you that there are indeed many clients who either do not want to pay or are unable to pay.
> again having the means to care for a pet is the responsibilty of the owner not the vet.
> you will hardly find any other business giving you a service for free or with the promise to pay later so why are vets supposed to do so?
> they are forced to walk a very thin line as i already said no vet wants to refuse treatment or put an animal to sleep due lack of money but where do you draw the line. is it allright to safe the pet who only needs minor treatment and absorb the costs ? what about a broken leg, caesarian,pyometra etc all treatable conditions but costly.
> you have no idea under how much pressure a vet comes and how horrible it is if you are forced to pts an animal due lack of finances so do not tell me i am judgmental because i experience these situations all the time and it is soul destroying to refuse treatment and dealing with an upset client who shifts the blame to the gready vets .


Christ only knows what kind of awful area you must work in if no one expects to pay!

Anyway, do not want to pay and unable to pay right now are two TOTALLY different things.

You say no other business would offer a pay later service, is that really how you see people's pets?
As pure business?
These are members of people's family who are sick.
It's not the same as a mobile phone or a piece of furniture.
I can have sympathy refusing treatment to someone who really has no intention of paying but you'd really refuse treatment to someone who can't settle the balance straightaway and would like a payment plan???
Have I read that right?
That's just shocking if so.

I can call you judgemental because your posts are making me feel that you are judging me as a bad owner because I and countless other people often do not have £30 at our disposal to whip out willy nilly. 
Considering my dog is well fed, fleaed, wormed, vaccinated, healthy, exercised, trained and happy I find the insinuation that I do not have the means to have her insulting.

Both occasions she needed treatment the vets understood that I was unable to settle the bill immediately and that it would be settled at the end of the month.
I paid what I could on the day and settled the rest as promised when my husband got paid.
If they had refused my poorly dog treatment because I couldn't afford the fee there and then I certainly would think the vet greedy. 
And a whole host of other things frankly.

Perhaps my husband should give up working, what is the point in getting up around 5, sometimes as early as 3, working hard all day sometimes not getting home until 8 or 9, working most weekends as well for vets to assume that we must be terrible owners because we occasionally fall short.

We should just do as our neighbours do, pop out some more kids, quit work, claim every benefit under the sun then we can have enough money for taxis and takeaways every day and never again would we need to worry about judgemental people because the PDSA or government would pay any fees should the animals get sick so the vets will always get their cash bang on time!


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Steady on, after the years of training to gain the knowledge needed to treat your pets, the premises and the equipment, and paying labs to conduct state-of-the-art testing, of course it's a business! Vets don't do that to become charities and give away their services free of charge. Even charities have to pay vet bills, even though they rely on public doations to make that possible. If you have a vet who is happy to settle up at the end of the month, great, but it's not right to expect this from every vet for every patient with a cash flow problem. 

What's made me angry about your post though is the insinuation that somehow you'd be better off on benefits. This kind of Daily Mail propaganda you've swallowed is what's dividing this country into the haves and the scum, while those with 4 figure monthly incomes believe the arse-gravy they are fed by hatemongers that spongers are sucking them dry. TRY living on £71 a week and see if you're better off than you are now. Until then, lay off the vets who are also trying to work hard and make a living, who have worked sodding hard for the knowledge required to treat your pets and also have to put food on the table for their children and pets.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

trudy said:


> the reason ooh care costs more money is because because it also costs the practice more money to provide this service.
> working ooh or beeing on call is extremly stressfull and unhealthy and it is a service which actually is a finanical loss for most practices but they provide it for their clients peace of mind


I have never seen a struggling vet business.
I'm sure the 'loss' incurred by offering an OOH service is more than covered by the extortionate consultation fees (£30 for 10 minutes where I live) and the huge mark up on all drugs and food sold to owners by vets :sneaky2:
Also I'd imagine vets do extremely well since the arrival of pet insurance - I'm sure I am not the only person who has taken quite a poorly pet to the vets and their first question is whether they are insured or not! Not hard to know why is it :angry:


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> Steady on, after the years of training to gain the knowledge needed to treat your pets, the premises and the equipment, and paying labs to conduct state-of-the-art testing, of course it's a business! Vets don't do that to become charities and give away their services free of charge. Even charities have to pay vet bills, even though they rely on public doations to make that possible. If you have a vet who is happy to settle up at the end of the month, great, but it's not right to expect this from every vet for every patient with a cash flow problem.
> 
> What's made me angry about your post though is the insinuation that somehow you'd be better off on benefits. This kind of Daily Mail propaganda you've swallowed is what's dividing this country into the haves and the scum, while those with 4 figure monthly incomes believe the arse-gravy they are fed by hatemongers that spongers are sucking them dry. TRY living on £71 a week and see if you're better off than you are now. Until then, lay off the vets who are also trying to work hard and make a living, who have worked sodding hard for the knowledge required to treat your pets and also have to put food on the table for their children and pets.


I was being sarcastic regarding living on benefits.
My husband WORKS harder than most thanks.
Oh and by the way, it's not propaganda.
It's watching my neighbours day in day out (i am a housewife you see) order taxis at least a couple of times a day, buy their kids expensive toys, smoke like chimneys which isn't cheap and order takeaways most nights. 
Funnily enough, my husband when we have fair to good months gives me around £280 a month to spend on food, sometimes more. That equals around £70 a week!!!

Also FYI, I grew up on a very rough estate, I don't deny that many people are on benefits through no fault of their own.
I have always supported benefits for those who need them. 
I not agree with labelling everyone on benefits as scroungers etc.

However you must appreciate that some people DO play the system, like my neighbours!!!

Fascinating how people's opinions change when you mention your monthly income, mention that your husband sometimes brings home more than £3,000 and watch the sparks fly.
Conveniently forget about the bit where I said the work is seasonal, weather dependant and that we sometimes have months that are very very poor won't you? :Yawn:


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

When one has seasonal work, one should budget. I'm sorry but I didn't find your joke funny. FYI - jobseekers allowance is £71 per week for everything, not for food once all the bills are paid.


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

ForeverHome said:


> When one has seasonal work, one should budget. I'm sorry but I didn't find your joke funny. FYI - jobseekers allowance is £71 per week for everything, not for food once all the bills are paid.


One should and one does, but then one finds that the budgeted amount needs breaking into and sometimes is still not enough!! 
As I said earlier, There is always something that needs doing and pet owners really shouldn't be lambasted for finding themselves short.
We never know what is going to happen in life.
I would bet that most people who have suddenly found themselves out of work were not expecting it, you never know how life is going to pan out you just have to make do of the situation you are in.

I don't find playing the system funny when some people are struggling, it also makes life a lot harder for those genuine claimants.

I know this already, benefits arguments are wasted on me.
I agree with them for those in need and with relatives who have been claiming benefits for years (deservedly) and a brother involved in politics I already know about the system.


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## trudy (Oct 26, 2011)

well i was only trying to explain how it is on the other side of the fence can't help it if some people don't like this and frankly i have no need to defend myself here.


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## Sparkle22 (Oct 26, 2013)

trudy said:


> well i was only trying to explain how it is on the other side of the fence can't help it if some people don't like this and frankly i have no need to defend myself here.


That's exactly how I feel to be fair.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

trudy said:


> well i was only trying to explain how it is on the other side of the fence can't help it if some people don't like this and frankly i have no need to defend myself here.


If this is aimed at my comment then I'd just like to say that (in my opinion) implying that offering OOH service is financially crippling vets is hard to believe 
With regards to paying, I do agree with you of course. Vets are a business, you don't get food from Tesco without paying do you


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

trudy said:


> well I am glad the kitten made a miracle recovery without needing a vet
> 
> the comment about the vets accountant rubbing his hands with glee reflects a rather strange opinion about your vet.
> do you really think all vets are just waiting hopefully something bad might happen to your pets preferably ooh so they can line their pockets?


No, I took her to the vet like I said I would. Anyway, kitten is fine and I think everyone appreciates the work that vets do-I work looking after people in the NHS and understand work can be a sensitive subject when it's been paraded through the media so much. And my vets practice is excellent as I'm sure most are  got an appointment on the same day and they don't mind when Daisy spends the whole time attempting to escape :s haha


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

jaycee05 said:


> Sorry i was wrong about her not being wormed, not sure why i thought she hadnt been, but it did sound as if she wasnt very well, shaking her ears etc, they do that when they have ear mites or an ear infection, in which case she would be feeling pretty bad tempered i would think, especially if she has ear pain,and would be liable to strike out
> Also it did sound as if you were having problems affording vets fees, which is why i suggested PDSA


A simple misunderstanding then  no worries, I'm just glad she's ok, that's my priority!


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## Wilks23 (Jul 19, 2014)

lostbear said:


> Agree here! Our animals are very rarely poorly, but you can bet your life that if one of them decides to swallow a wasp, they will do it on a Bank Holiday, and set the vet's accountant rubbing his hands with glee!


Exactly!:biggrin5: I think my parents' pets used to do the same, so maybe they're all in conspiracy with each other haha.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Have I missed something or have some posts been removed?
Anyway, I gather Daisy is now OK which is great


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Regarding OOhrs vets £150 for 20 minutes isnt bad, which is what i was charged and this was a long time ago, and my last call to an OOhrs vet was rejected, as it can wait until tomorrow, i had the money to pay and it was an emergency, but it couldnt wait and my cat had to be pts in the morning
I buy all my wormers etc online, about half the price the vet would charge,
I have never known a poor vet either, although i do understand they have spent a long time training, 
Most of the vets i have been to in the past used to give you a month to pay, dont know any who do that now,at last it gave someone at the wrong end of payday a chance to get the money together


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Well I don't know, I used to have credit cards for emergencies, now there's always a bit in the business account. My work is seasonal, I get paid the same but the summer months I might put a third of my pay or more in the car and there's annual car insurance, cat check-ups all in the same two months just after my tax bill. There's still a cushion for emergencies, and I live alone and dream of breaking through a grand a month. Live to your means and keep some in reserve. I'm not saying it's easy but it has to be done.


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