# What to do when an off lead dog approaches my unpredictable on lead dog?



## muddy_dragon (Sep 25, 2010)

I would very much appreciate some advice on this. I&#8217;m sorry if this has been asked before, I had a quick look using the search but couldn&#8217;t find much. 

In short we have a problem with other dogs running up to the family rescue dog (lives with my parents) and him being unpredictable with other dogs and then snapping at them. The owners of the off lead dogs then can get quite upset.

We&#8217;re not sure what he is probably a collie X GSD he came from a rescue centre after being found as a stray, he is always walked on a lead due to the unpredictability and selective deafness around other dogs (otherwise his obedience is excellent) and he gets lots of space to run around in my parents ½ acre garden where he also has some agility jumps set up so being on lead all of the walk isn&#8217;t too much of a problem. He has a problem with anything near his rear end, we&#8217;ve trained him over the years so he is fine for me to be there and for my parents, other humans he gets jumpy about and he doesn&#8217;t like dogs round there either (we believe this issue is because he arrived at the rescue centre neutered but the vets are pretty sure it wasn&#8217;t a vet that did it&#8230.

He&#8217;s fine with a lot of dogs, he has a couple of friendly cocker spaniels we visit and he likes to play with. When he meets most dogs on walks however his tail wags very quickly and a short distance in a nervous type manner. he has been getting a lot better over the years we&#8217;ve had him but we still have a problem with off lead dogs running up to him. When the other dog is on a lead and we meet it&#8217;s usually OK as it&#8217;s a quick meeting, we can talk to the owner and fuss my dog tell him how good he is and they can take their dog away, the meeting is nice and controlled and both dogs can be moved if he starts getting upset or snaps and if he behaves he can have a treat &#8211; however often he is not interested int he treat at that point and he&#8217;s extremely food motivated the only other place he&#8217;s not interested in food is in the vet&#8217;s office. Occasionally an offlead dog is fine as it obeys it&#8217;s owner and actually goes back to the owner when called so again it is not a prolonged meeting. The problems occur when dogs run up to him and the owner doesn&#8217;t care or recall their dog or in most cases they try to recall their dog(s) and their dog(s) ignore them and so they continue to call but do not come and get their dog(s). Sam is then OK with these dogs for a short time but especially those that keep harassing him (so ones that jump up or keep trying to sniff his backside so he spins round desperately trying to keep them away or follow him trying to get at his behind as I try to take sam away) he eventually snaps and goes for. The most recent occasion was a Labrador which was ignoring it&#8217;s owner&#8217;s recall and the owner not coming to get it and it insisted on resting it&#8217;s head on the scruff of Sam&#8217;s neck, sam snapped and had a go at him mainly teeth flashing and growling and a grab at the other dog&#8217;s scruff they both reared up and snarled and bared teeth and fought at each other&#8217;s mouths but not much biting went on it was more sizing up. Then the other dog left crying back to it&#8217;s owner (who still hadn&#8217;t moved) the owner was obvously very upset and she was thoroughly looking over her do talking in a appeasing manner to it and checking it for wounds, I think she was too much in shock to say anything to us (and also too far away) but she was obviously extremely upset and thought her dog should be bleeding all over (it was fine), we always apologise but obviously this doesn&#8217;t really help. It&#8217;s also extremely upsetting for us when this happens too as obviously them fighting is upsetting in itself and it&#8217;s obvious most owners think he&#8217;s a badly trained highly aggressive dog that shouldn&#8217;t be allowed out near other dogs which is not the case. But since he&#8217;s not let of lead and we can control him if the other dog is also controlled we&#8217;re not sure what else we can do.

Basically we&#8217;re not sure what to do before the snapping when an off lead dog is bothering him and not responding to it&#8217;s owner &#8211; often they&#8217;re too far away for me to ask them to get their dog away. When he snaps we tell him off drag him away, walk a short way then get him to lie down or do other tricks and give him a treat for the tricks. When I see another dog about if he is in a heel command I release him for this as he is likely to break it is the dog harasses him anyway and I don&#8217;t want him to feel more nervous and restricted. we used to fuss the other dog to try and show sam it was OK but this tended to increase the snapping risk so we stopped that and just talk in a calming manner to sam. I always try and keep calm and the lead loose and relaxed so he doesn&#8217;t feel nervous about that. But am unsure what else to do, if I try to take him away it exposes his back end and makes him more nervous and the other dog(s) usually follow and continue to bother him. It&#8217;s usually impossible to keep hold of sam and restrain the other dog from getting too close and the other owner often thinks you&#8217;re being cruel to their dog if you do. we can&#8217;t distract him with anything as the other dogs are constantly in his face/rear end. we know he could be walked only streets/roads where the chances of meeting other dogs offlead is reduced but that would really cut into his walks and the places he could go and sniff and generally make the walks far less interesting for both him and us and we'd rather work on fixing the problem than avoiding it. Although mainly my dad walks him and when I&#8217;m back from Uni I always take him either with my dad or own my own, however my mum is actually nervous of walking him due to the risk of meeting other dogs like this and not knowing what to do, which is not a good situation to be in. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Sadly there isn't much you can do, as you can't control other people's dogs. However, as the owner of a DA dog I have found a few things that help in some situations. If we see an approaching dog I either turn away immediately and start walking in the opposite direction at a fair pace, putting as much distance between myself and the approaching dog. I also have the added advantage of being able to pick my dog up, but I realise this isn't an option in your case  I've found that the vast majority of dogs do not continue approaching once past a certain distance or when losing sight of their owners. If dogs do get to close, Missy's behaviour usually stops them in their tracks before getting right in her face. But there is always the one truly determined dog. 

I have always found making Missy sit/wait, or asking for alternative behaviours to only make her worse. For us continuing to walk is the only thing that has some benefit. 

It is frustrating, but you only can do your best. I would however stop apologising to other owners, as they are more in the wrong than you by allowing their dog to approach. Of course, it's only common courtesy, but that works both ways. Hopefully the shocked Lab owner you encountered will be more careful in the future if she was so upset about her dog being injured.


----------



## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

My Retriever wasn't very socialised as a youngster so she's nervous around other dogs she doesn't know and she's too unpredictable to be let off the lead much like yours. If we do come across dogs off lead we don't know, we try to create as much distance as possible so she's comfortable enough to take a treat and be distracted although its not always possible. It doesn't help that a couple of off lead dogs have actually started a fight with her too in the past.


----------



## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Having had a reactive dog and now have one who is ultra friendly and can't understand why not every dog wants to play with her, I can see both sides of the equation.
However, you are not in the wrong, people allowing their dogs to approach yours and either not recalling them or if the dog won't come back, coming to fetch them, are the ones at fault. Keep that at the forefront of your mind and as Dogloverlou has said, stop apologising, it makes you look at fault, not them with the out of control dog.
I know my friendly dog only wants to say hello, but also know that some dogs don't want to say hello back and it is not fair of me to allow my dog to go and greet every dog she sees willy nilly. It seems you are meeting people who don't know the unwritten rule of 'if the dog is on a lead, call your dog away or put it on a lead too'. If it's feasible, call across to the other owner to come and collect their dog and take it away as your dog is scared and will get upset. I should imagine some will be disgruntled, but many will then start apologising to you, always useful. You could follow up with a more detailed reason why your dog gets upset if you want to. Hopefully local dog owners will get to know you and keep their dogs away.


----------



## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

My 4kg Yorkie doesn't like rude dogs bothering her. If they don't go away and she growls I will pick her up due to her size in case the other dog reacts. Luckily it doesn't happen often. I'm not apologising to someone that can't control their dog and thinks it's ok to let them run up to an onlead dog that is tiny. If someone comments that she is nasty I explain that she's scared. 

As your dog is too big to be picked up I'd work on blocking the approaching dog and being assertive so the other owner comes and get them.


----------



## Old Shep (Oct 17, 2010)

I also have a lead reactive dog and off lead "over friendly" dogs are a nightmare.

I use a Yellow Dog coat when walking onlead. I'm sure no one actually knows what it is, however it's bold enough for other owners to see at a distance that it is some form of "alert" message. They may think he's a service dog/- search and rescue dog/a (very small) guide dog- I don't really care, but it does help when I shout "please call your dog!" And they generally do. 

If they don't I just shout that my dog isn't good with strange dogs (though you sometimes get the inevitable "but mise is...."!).


My daughter lives in a less developed country where there are lots of feral dogs (who are often diseased). If she is walking her dog onlead, she sometimes carries a pet corrector to spray towards the the approaching dog (thankfully, her on dog is a bit of a dope, and doesn't even react to it). Tis seems to work for her, but I'm not sure if it would be practical here.

I was told that if an offlead dog approaches a reactive dog onlead and a fight breaks out, that it is the reactive dogs fault (providing the offlead dog is known to be friendly and the reactive dog is known not to be). I can't remember who told me, but I had always thought it would be the offlead dog which wasn't under control- but apparently not. If anyone knows different, please can they let me know?


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Not your fault. The other person should be apologizing to you.

I have these people get annoyed at me when I lead my dog when theirs approaches and they say "mines alright" 

Odd when you tell them that their bouncy friendly dog could actually damage my elderly dog, they often end up apologizing to me.

You are in the same position as me as far as I can see, though their "friendly" dog is doing possible mental harm to yours not physical. It's still someone elses dog, therefore their responsibility to stop harm happening to your under control dog.

Get a bit angry in the defense of your dog


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> I was told that if an offlead dog approaches a reactive dog onlead and a fight breaks out, that it is the reactive dogs fault (providing the offlead dog is known to be friendly and the reactive dog is known not to be). I can't remember who told me, but I had always thought it would be the offlead dog which wasn't under control- but apparently not. If anyone knows different, please can they let me know?




It's the off lead dog that isn't under control


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

rona said:


> It's the off lead dog that isn't under control


I don't think it is Rona. Im sure the new laws state that a dog has to be under control even on a leash, and if its capable of inflicting injury even on a leash, it should be muzzled. Maybe Im wrong, but Im sure I read it somewhere.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Dogloverlou said:


> Sadly there isn't much you can do, as you can't control other people's dogs. However, as the owner of a DA dog I have found a few things that help in some situations. If we see an approaching dog I either turn away immediately and start walking in the opposite direction at a fair pace, putting as much distance between myself and the approaching dog. I also have the added advantage of being able to pick my dog up, but I realise this isn't an option in your case  I've found that the vast majority of dogs do not continue approaching once past a certain distance or when losing sight of their owners. If dogs do get to close, Missy's behaviour usually stops them in their tracks before getting right in her face. But there is always the one truly determined dog.
> 
> I have always found making Missy sit/wait, or asking for alternative behaviours to only make her worse. For us continuing to walk is the only thing that has some benefit.
> 
> It is frustrating, but you only can do your best. I would however stop apologising to other owners, as they are more in the wrong than you by allowing their dog to approach. Of course, it's only common courtesy, but that works both ways. Hopefully the shocked Lab owner you encountered will be more careful in the future if she was so upset about her dog being injured.


Space invaders are a pain, ou may find this link useful

6 Ways to Thwart an Off-Leash Dog Rushing You and Your Dog | Dogster


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Old Shep said:


> .
> 
> I was told that if an offlead dog approaches a reactive dog onlead and a fight breaks out, that it is the reactive dogs fault (providing the offlead dog is known to be friendly and the reactive dog is known not to be). I can't remember who told me, but I had always thought it would be the offlead dog which wasn't under control- but apparently not. If anyone knows different, please can they let me know?


Fault is a word only used in civil law,

The fact that a dog is on a lead does not ipso facto prove that it is "under control" I have met a fair few on lead dogs who are anything BUT.

As always all cases are judged on their individual merits.


----------



## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Don't know where you've seen that Old Shep, but if someone's off lead dog approached Amber and I'm trying all my hardest to control her (30 odd kilo Golden Retriever) and they keep on coming at us then I don't see how its our fault. I don't want to get to the stage where we have to muzzle Amber to protect the dogs with idiot owners who can't control their own dogs.
Teddy is perfectly fine with other dogs so he goes off lead, but I always know he'll come back.


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

smokeybear said:


> Space invaders are a pain, ou may find this link useful
> 
> 6 Ways to Thwart an Off-Leash Dog Rushing You and Your Dog | Dogster


Thanks for that. Dogster have done many a great article in their time ( I'm a member there too ) 

Unfortunately in my situation standing around makes Missy much worse, so half those ideas wouldn't necessarily make it any easier in our circumstances.



smokeybear said:


> Fault is a word only used in civil law,
> 
> The fact that a dog is on a lead does not ipso facto prove that it is "under control" I have met a fair few on lead dogs who are anything BUT.
> 
> As always all cases are judged on their individual merits.


Agreed with this. I can honestly say just before I got a harness for Cash I was NOT in control of him 100% of the time when he was on lead. If he wanted to go I had a hell of a job holding on and was practically all over the place. It's easy to assume dog on lead = no responsibility on the owner. But I would have a problem with someone physically unable to control their dog, dragging themselves over to me, or otherwise causing problems for me and my dogs regardless of whether that dog was on lead or not.


----------



## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I dont think this bit:



> When he snaps we tell him off drag him away,


is helping matters for a start.

Your dog has every right to tell off a dog that is rude and will not leave him alone. By telling your dog off for snapping he may well forego the warnings he's giving the other dog and jump straight to an attack. Your dog is resorting to snapping because the other dog is not taking any notice of the earlier warning signals.

What you can do largely depends on the other dog. Lots of dogs are easily put off if you shout or shoo them away but some arent and are oblivious to the warning the human is giving also. I firstly try putting the dog off from approaching in the first place by clapping my hands, stamping my feet, telling it to go away, physically moving towards it etc but if that doesnt work then i'm afraid I dish out whatever I feel necessary.

I never have an actual plan, I just play it by ear because it depends on so many factors.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

rona said:


> It's the off lead dog that isn't under control


When I asked the police who'd likely be held responsible if my on leash dog hurt a dog who ran up I was told it would likely be me. Even though my dog was leashed and the other was under no control  which seems silly to me, I'd hope though that it would be judged on a case by case basis.

It's a matter of being proactive and warding off the approaching dog. I found teaching Rupert to go behind me and keep himself there while I dealt with the dog worked best. Telling the dog to go away or words to that effect in a low, firm voice has always worked well for me.


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

I've had a foster dog, a 35kg greyhound, muzzled and kept on a short leash and still people would let their dogs come over and then proceed to watch me struggling with a whirling jumping dog. I'm afraid many people don't think of the effect of their "friendly and only wants to play" dog has on others. I could argue every time I go out with people because it happens every time I walk. When someone says "its ok he's friendly" I say well mines not so can you call your dog back please. Some are apologetic but in the main they get quite stroPpy, their problem not mine. I get sick to death of other people who think they can do what they like and nobody says anything.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Old Shep said:


> I also have a lead reactive dog and off lead "over friendly" dogs are a nightmare.
> 
> I use a Yellow Dog coat when walking onlead. I'm sure no one actually knows what it is, however it's bold enough for other owners to see at a distance that it is some form of "alert" message. They may think he's a service dog/- search and rescue dog/a (very small) guide dog- I don't really care, but it does help when I shout "please call your dog!" And they generally do.
> 
> ...


The Police will not normally get involved when one dog attacks another.

In their view, these incidents are classed simply as dog fights and where, usually, it is one owner's word against another as to which dog was the aggressor, it would be very difficult to apportion blame.


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Old Shep said:


> ...
> I was told that if an off-lead dog approaches a reactive dog [who is] on-lead & a fight breaks out, ...it's the [fault of the]
> reactive dog's [handler] - providing the off-lead dog is known to be friendly, & the reactive dog is known not to be.
> 
> ...


Dog-law is bizarre, arcane, & often illogical; it varies wildly from place to place.

But generally speaking, in the USA if Ur dog is *on leash*, & is attacked by an off-leash dog, whether the roaming
dog is accompanied or not, the owner of the loose dog is legally liable for all costs, damages, injury, etc - providing
U can prove who owns the dog, which isn't always easy.

As just one for-instance, VA recently [less than 5-years ago] passed a law that requires vets to record rabies
vaccinations & boosters, with the dog's owner of record - *solely as a public safety measure, so if a person
is bitten, there's an accessible record to show WHEN the dog was last vaccinated, & by whom - as this
avoids the painful multi-shot post exposure rabies series, AND saves approx $1,000-USA for those shots.*
The owner's NAME is not visible; only the microchip # of the dog, & the rabies-vaccine record.

However, VHDOA [VA Hunting-Dog Owners' Assoc] promptly advised all their members to falsify their ownership,
& record their dogs as belonging to relatives in any other state but VA, to make the law moot. :crazy:

So... the dog lives in VA; is fed by, housed by, hunted by, & cared for by their owner - but on paper, is the
PROPERTY of [my brother's cousin's sister's son], who lives in [Georgia]. These ppl are eejits. rrr:
.
.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I was told by our local dog warden that the off lead dog would be considered "not under control" and therefore their owner would be at fault. At the time I was having problems with my on lead and muzzled rottie being harassed regularly be an off lead dog (lept on/hanging off her throat etc) - the dog's owner refused to leash/muzzle his dog. However I asked what would happen if I took my dogs muzzle/lead off so that she could defend herself and I would then apparently have been in the wrong so I just had to put up with it. I changed my walking location as a result


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I was told by our local dog warden that the off lead dog would be considered "not under control" and therefore their owner would be at fault. At the time I was having problems with my on lead and muzzled rottie being harassed regularly be an off lead dog (lept on/hanging off her throat etc) - the dog's owner refused to leash/muzzle his dog. However I asked what would happen if I took my dogs muzzle/lead off so that she could defend herself and I would then apparently have been in the wrong so I just had to put up with it. I changed my walking location as a result


What an uttely selfish barsteward he sounds, some people you just can't reason with !


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Bellaboo1 said:


> What an uttely selfish barsteward he sounds, some people you just can't reason with !


He was. He tried to say it was my fault for having a dog on its lead/muzzled and that she was big enough to take care of herself without my help. I knew the rescue he rehomed the dog through so sent them an email and they did go round and speak to him but he still refused to change his habits so for the sake of my dog we just stopped walking there.


----------



## muddy_dragon (Sep 25, 2010)

Thankyou for all the replies everyone. it's reassuring to hear that others feel that the off lead dogs should be under more control and it's not just me being biased. (obviously there are lots of very well trained well controlled off lead dogs out there i'm only talking about the ones with no recall). i will certainly try to stop appologising.

In responce to me pulling him away and telling him off when he snaps making him worse. i should have specified i didn't mean a warning snap i meant in the sense that when he "breaks" i.e. can't cope anymore and has a proper snapping yelling at the other dog up on his hind legs. it appears like he goes for it but i can't actually see teeth connect. However if you still meant this what would you suggest i do do? obvously i don't want to let them keep fighting.

The body language bit is interesting i should have mentioned when we first got him we took him to the training recommended by the rescue centre and the trainer there said that it seemed like he didn't understand dog body language properly and guessed he was taken from his mother at a young age (very possible he also displays obsessive licking of us which i've been told is a sign on being taken from the mother too young), which i guess may well have something to do with it?

I've always been wary about moving away from another dog as quickly as possible as i don't want him to think he should be scared of strange dogs but it is something i will consider, however i generally find when a dog has locked on it's going to keep coming. Sadly often the owner is out of earshot, but i will certainly try giving commands to the other dog when i can't call out to the owner that's a great one thankyou .

I regards to those worrying about the legal regulations thankyou for letting me know but don't worry i don't think he would ever injure another dog. as far as i can see the "attacks" don't even seem to connect or at best catch the scruff, he's certainly never pierced the skin. The one time wth me where an offlead dog has attacked him properly his responce was to try to run for the hills and to hide behind me as soon as the other dog hit him (i didn't drop the lead in this case as this dog didn't even have teeth - the owner was shouting this whilst chasing after him, so i easily restrained it whilst sam hid behind me - it had escaped from it's house they weren't stupid enough to let it off) so i think if a real fight broke out he'd be hightailing it out of there. 

Even if a fight did break out and he wanted to continue he would not be able to drag me he never has been able to so please don't worry about that either. He tried a few times when we got him to drag me places, i'm actually stronger than him if it really comes down to it - but this takes time and is quite a close match. but the best system i found is the same used for a strong horse pulling: pull and release in quick sucession. the sudden change in force makes it very difficult for them to fight against you properly and unbalances them. Those who mentioned problems with being dragged i really recommend you try it, even with a dog who just pulls too much. i mean it works well on horses it should do on any less than horse sized dog 

Anyway thankyou all. i'll certainly give some of those suggestions a shot.


----------



## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

muddy_dragon said:


> ... we have a problem with other dogs running up to the family rescue dog, who lives with my parents -
> [he's] unpredictable with other dogs & [may then snap] at them. Owners of the off-lead dogs can get... upset.
> 
> ...he's probably Collie X GSD; came from a rescue... after being found... stray, he's always walked on a lead
> ...


As someone said, U cannot control someone else's dog, sadly; that's their problem, & THEY are at fault.
Apologizing for their dog being an OOC pain-in-the-arse is not going to help. Of course, *pointing out* that
their dog is an OOC pain-in-the-arse won't help, either. 

Re the Lab, U cannot determine that "their dog was FINE" if the owner & dog were so far away that she didn't
bother giving U what-for over Ur dangerously-aggro dog assaulting her dear Woofie.  PUNCTURES,
especially to a dark-coated dog, may be completely invisible for a few days - till they swell with pus, weep,
abscess, drain, make ugly hot lumps, or the dog shows pain - in a joint, when touched, etc.

So U can't say, "the Lab was FINE" - because U don't know, truly. U can only say that the dog wasn't visibly
bloody, & didn't appear injured. Just a thought, for next time - also for Ur own dog - don't assume no visible
blood means Sam is completely unhurt.


muddy_dragon said:


> Basically were not sure what to do before [Sam snaps], when an off-lead dog [bothers] him & [won't respond] to
> [their] owner  often theyre too far away for me to ask [that they] get their dog away.


Teach Sam a well-rehearsed, happy, confident *emergency U-turn away* from other dogs & any distractions -
cue it with an upbeat, cheerful, "let's go!" :001_smile:


muddy_dragon said:


> *When Sam snaps, we tell him & off drag him away, walk a short way*, then get him to lie down or do other
> tricks, & give him a treat for the tricks.


The *colored* bit is only going to make him WORSE - U must stop punishing him.

Just stop; he's reacting defensively, he feels harassed & vulnerable, & punishing him only makes him
even more afraid in future, because now it's not just the other DOGS he's afraid of; it's the anger of his
own family, & being helpless whilst being dragged off. 


muddy_dragon said:


> When I see another dog about, if Sam's at heel, I release him... as he's likely to break [his heel] if the dog
> harasses him anyway, & I dont want him to feel more nervous & restricted.
> 
> We used to fuss the other dog to try [to] show Sam it's OK, but this tended to increase the snapping risk, so we
> ...


Carry a golf-sized umbrella, preferably with a long pointy ferrule [the part that sticks out at the end].

When U cue an emergency-U-Turn, deploy the umbrella [which Sam already is desensitized to!] & put it behind
Sam, between his bum & the following dog; if they try to evade it, keep moving it to stay between Sam &
the other dog as a visual & physical barrier. If a particular dog gets really pushy, poke them with the ferrule
or shove the whole, opened umbrella at the other dog abruptly, & startle them - U can't HURT a dog with
an open umbrella used as a broad 'palm' to push them away, but U can startle the bejabbers out of a very
persistent pest. :thumbsup:
.
.


----------



## muddy_dragon (Sep 25, 2010)

Thankyou again,
I'll certainly try the emergancy U turn with a "this way" (his command for let's go this way! if he's not in heel)
and the protective bum umbrella sounds great. latest in dog fashion acessories . we never walk with an umbrella (we wear coats with hoods and if really bad weather waterproof trousers) though so it may take a while for him to get used to that.



leashedForLife said:


> Re the Lab, U cannot determine that "their dog was FINE" if the owner & dog were so far away that she didn't
> bother giving U what-for over Ur dangerously-aggro dog assaulting her dear Woofie.  PUNCTURES,
> especially to a dark-coated dog, may be completely invisible for a few days - till they swell with pus, weep,
> abscess, drain, make ugly hot lumps, or the dog shows pain - in a joint, when touched, etc.
> ...


Thanks for that. I did actually head back into range and ask (they obviously had hold of the dog by then and were really thoroughly checking it). hence how i know that they were seriously worried as they had trouble talking (probably why i didn't get told off) Also as far as i could tell teeth didn't seem to connect so i strongly suspect both Sam and the Lab were both OK. Thankyou for the advice about not being visable right away i'll certainly keep an eye out on sam (he generally makes a fuss about anything so i think he would make it fairly obviously to us).



leashedForLife said:


> The *colored* bit is only going to make him WORSE - U must stop punishing him.
> 
> Just stop; he's reacting defensively, he feels harassed & vulnerable, & punishing him only makes him
> even more afraid in future, because now it's not just the other DOGS he's afraid of; it's the anger of his
> own family, & being helpless whilst being dragged off.


Thankyou, i feel very stupid for not linking that this could make it all worse. I realise i used a bad term in snap i didn't mean a warning snap i meant in the sense that when he "breaks" i.e. can't cope anymore and has a proper snapping yelling at the other dog up on his hind legs usully the other dog joins in too with almost cobra like movements towards on another. it appears like he goes for it but i can't actually see teeth connect. So instead of responding by pulling away with a firm NO! what would you suggest i do? obviously i don't want to just stand there and let it continue surely as the risk of one wounding the other would continue until the other dog leaves? or is this what i should do? i can't really grab the collar of the other dog without risking the teeth of either of them connecting with me in the confusion (especially the strange dog). obviously i realise it's better to avoid these situations in the first place but if it does happen? i could try his "leave it" command but i suspect that wouldn't work in that case and could put him at risk from the other dog. Sorry if i'm being stupid here i'm just unsure if i can't take him away from the fight because it will make him worse what should i do? i'm reluctant to punish the other dog since sam started the actual fight.


----------



## Rahoulb (Dec 17, 2013)

muddy_dragon said:


> .
> 
> In responce to me pulling him away and telling him off when he snaps making him worse. i should have specified i didn't mean a warning snap i meant in the sense that when he "breaks" i.e. can't cope anymore and has a proper snapping yelling at the other dog up on his hind legs.


This sounds to me like you are telling him off for being scared - his "breaking" is sheer terror and he's reacting the only way he has left (he can't run so he has to use teeth).

I would simply get him out of there as quickly as possible, with no telling off (but no calming words either when you are out of range).

I also carry a pocket of dry dog food to chuck on the floor to distract the other dog. Only had to use it once so far but it worked.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I find the best thing is to assume that owners of loose dogs don't generally give a damn about on lead dogs - and take the initiative.

I have a friendly on lead dog - but I don't want him being buzzed and jumped on by loose dogs because he then get's either excited and jumps about like a loon, or worse IMO feels overwhelmed 

So, I wear something hi-viz so other owners don't have the excuse of "not seeing me in time".

I treat "avoiding the numpties" as a game for me and Jack. As soon as I see another owner/dog (unless they are on lead themselves or known to be considerate) we play hide and seek, change direction, duck through a gap in the hedge, head onto a lane (*almost* guaranteed other dogs will be on lead on a road). Whatever it takes to simply avoid an encounter if possible.

I turn and walk the other way, making happy, play noises to Jack.

I have started to carry a pocketful of treats to "chuck" at a marauding dog, as a back up too just in case.

Be forceful and shout out to people to recall their dogs as soon as you see them heading for you.

Some people call out and say their dog is contagious/got kennel cough/mange etc. 

I would probably even carry an automatic umbrella too, but Jack doesn't like sticks so it would be a worry for him - and a nuisance for me TBH.

You need to avoid placing your dog in situations where he feels threatened and is pushed into a melt down. Every time it happens it adds to the problem. Try and avoid encounters as much as possible, and keep the mood light and happy when you do spot other dogs so that he doesn't think they are a threat. Any tension created in the person will transfer to the dog too.

Take control of the situation - don't rely on the other owners 

Honestly, since I have taken to doing these things I have very few negative encounters. Avoidance is the key.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Rahoulb said:


> This sounds to me like you are telling him off for being scared - his "breaking" is sheer terror and he's reacting the only way he has left (he can't run so he has to use teeth).
> 
> I would simply get him out of there as quickly as possible, with no telling off (but no calming words either when you are out of range).
> 
> I also carry a pocket of dry dog food to chuck on the floor to distract the other dog. Only had to use it once so far but it worked.


This. Just get him out of there ASAP if you absolutely cannot avoid a confrontation. No good telling him off for being frightened, it'll only make him more anxious.


----------

