# 5 Month Old Border Collie Nightmare



## alienandy (Jan 12, 2009)

We have had Charlie since he was 9 weeks old and we have managed to get through all his biting etc... JUST!! The BIG problem we have with him at present is his refusal to wear his lead. He hates it! It's literally a fight and I physically have to hold him down to get his lead on. We are on his third lead at the moment which is a slip lead, because that's the only lead I can get on him!! As he pulls on the lead like mad, we want to use a new 'Gentle Leader' on him, but we have found it impossible to get it on. If I manage it he then dives on the floor quick and uses his front paws to pull it off! Everything now is just getting impossible, and now making me not wanting to take him for a walk! It is not at all pleasurable for me and certainly not for him, as half the time he's getting strangled with the lead! Infact, he has actually been sick on a number of occasions due to how much panting he has been doing during a walk!

We've had dogs before with absoloutely no problems whatsoever. But this is the first time we've had a puppy. NEVER AGAIN!

Any suggestions?


----------



## Guest (Mar 25, 2009)

alienandy said:


> We have had Charlie since he was 9 weeks old and we have managed to get through all his biting etc... JUST!! The BIG problem we have with him at present is his refusal to wear his lead. He hates it! It's literally a fight and I physically have to hold him down to get his lead on. We are on his third lead at the moment which is a slip lead, because that's the only lead I can get on him!! As he pulls on the lead like mad, we want to use a new 'Gentle Leader' on him, but we have found it impossible to get it on. If I manage it he then dives on the floor quick and uses his front paws to pull it off! Everything now is just getting impossible, and now making me not wanting to take him for a walk! It is not at all pleasurable for me and certainly not for him, as half the time he's getting strangled with the lead! Infact, he has actually been sick on a number of occasions due to how much panting he has been doing during a walk!
> 
> We've had dogs before with absoloutely no problems whatsoever. But this is the first time we've had a puppy. NEVER AGAIN!
> 
> Any suggestions?


What a nightmare.

There is a way but i can't remember what you do. You have leave it on the floor to start and treat them every time they go near it i think and then gradually build up from there.

Someone on here will know more than me and help you out.


----------



## alienandy (Jan 12, 2009)

rainy said:


> What a nightmare.
> 
> There is a way but i can't remember what you do. You have leave it on the floor to start and treat them every time they go near it i think and then gradually build up from there.
> 
> Someone on here will know more than me and help you out.


Leave it on the floor?? lol. He'd EAT IT!
He is truly naughty at the moment.


----------



## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

I would go right back to scratch, forget the walks for a few days. Get a really really tasty treat, liver or chicken. Put the lead on (with struggle if thats how it is), give the treat, take the lead off, walk away. Repeat and repeat and repeat off and on throughout the day until its no longer a struggle.
Then progress to leaving the lead on for a count of five, give the treat, take lead of and walk away, repeat, etc.
Carry on until the lead can stay on for a decent count. Then move on so that you pick up the lead. Don't move just hold the lead. Get hime used to that and the gradually start to move about the house with the lead, treating often. And so on until you move into the garden, then eventually try walking....
Very slow process I know, but worth it to make it pleasureable again!!

Sh xx

PS. use strong verbal praise at each stage to let him know he's pleasing you....


----------



## alienandy (Jan 12, 2009)

Shazach said:


> I would go right back to scratch, forget the walks for a few days. Get a really really tasty treat, liver or chicken. Put the lead on (with struggle if thats how it is), give the treat, take the lead off, walk away. Repeat and repeat and repeat off and on throughout the day until its no longer a struggle.
> Then progress to leaving the lead on for a count of five, give the treat, take lead of and walk away, repeat, etc.
> Carry on until the lead can stay on for a decent count. Then move on so that you pick up the lead. Don't move just hold the lead. Get hime used to that and the gradually start to move about the house with the lead, treating often. And so on until you move into the garden, then eventually try walking....
> Very slow process I know, but worth it to make it pleasureable again!!
> ...


Thanks for that. Much appreciated.
I will definitely try that. Something we've never thought of!
He is so manic all the time, and very naughty, and also extremely intelligent at the same time. I suppose this is typical Border Collie!?


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Great advice from Shazach.
It will be a slow process but with tons of patience and love you'll get there.
Collies are so clever, they learn bad habits as quick as good habits.
He'll soon learn the new good habits
Good luck.
Teaching a dog to walk on the lead is the hardest thing to do.


----------



## Guest (Mar 25, 2009)

Although my Holly is only tiny she still behaves like a dog and when we first had her she used to jump around like a maniac when you picked up the lead. What i used to do was make her sit and wait, and I would only put the lead on when she was sitting. I then made her walk to the door behind and sit near the door while i opened it and stood a while with her sitting and the door open and only walk out when she was calm and always behind me. When outside i made her sit while i locked the door. It took a while to get to this stage but it was worth it.


----------



## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

alienandy said:


> Thanks for that. Much appreciated.
> I will definitely try that. Something we've never thought of!
> He is so manic all the time, and very naughty, and also extremely intelligent at the same time. I suppose this is typical Border Collie!?


Oh yes Border Collies are very clever imo. They need a lot of stimulus, have fun!! :lol:
Hope it works, let us know.

Sh xx


----------



## Guest (Mar 25, 2009)

Thanks Shaz, that was what i meant but i thought you started with the lead on the floor.


----------



## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

rainy said:


> Thanks Shaz, that was what i meant but i thought you started with the lead on the floor.


Maybe you do! Thats just what I'd try


----------



## Guest (Mar 25, 2009)

Shazach said:


> Maybe you do! Thats just what I'd try


Not much good if they'd eat it though


----------



## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

I have two Collies and I must say your young one sounds just like my young one, it must be something in the water lol

I did exactly what Shazach suggested it took two days then we were off around the block and have never looked back my baby now sees the lead as a sure was of getting a bit of baked liver.

Good Luck 

M x


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Changes said:


> I have two Collies and I must say your young one sounds just like my young one, it must be something in the water lol
> 
> I did exactly what Shazach suggested it took two days then we were off around the block and have never looked back my baby now sees the lead as a sure was of getting a bit of baked liver.
> 
> ...


Great to hear a success story :thumbup1: - gives us all hope


----------



## alienandy (Jan 12, 2009)

Changes said:


> I have two Collies and I must say your young one sounds just like my young one, it must be something in the water lol
> 
> I did exactly what Shazach suggested it took two days then we were off around the block and have never looked back my baby now sees the lead as a sure was of getting a bit of baked liver.
> 
> ...


Thanks Changes! That makes us feel like we're not the odd ones out! lol.
New start for Charlie tomorrow. We are going to do exactly what Shazach has told us to do. I think our big mistake was as soon as he started growing like mad, we treated him like our past big dogs! Basically forgetting that we actually had a Pup! Here's some pictures of him now at 5 months....

























Little Monster!!! lol.


----------



## Guest (Mar 25, 2009)

AW cutie pie he is still a baby.


Read my thread "to tug or not to tug" they all have their "thing" to drive us nuts


----------



## Shazach (Dec 18, 2008)

alienandy said:


> Thanks Changes! That makes us feel like we're not the odd ones out! lol.
> New start for Charlie tomorrow. We are going to do exactly what Shazach has told us to do. I think our big mistake was as soon as he started growing like mad, we treated him like our past big dogs! Basically forgetting that we actually had a Pup! Here's some pictures of him now at 5 months....
> 
> Little Monster!!! lol.


He's gorgeous!

And btw - I'm guilty of that too, big time!!! But they're very good at reminding you they're still pups - usually by some new mischief making! :lol::lol:


----------



## leoti (Dec 9, 2007)

Have you tried using a clicker with him , been clever dogs sounds like he is trying it on with you , if he was mine i would use a clicker once he understands what that the clicker means Food i would introduce the lead having it in my hand he takes the food from so he has to touch it once he over comes that then i would clip it to his collar click him and reward and take it off building it up gradually this is the way i would do it


----------



## alienandy (Jan 12, 2009)

leoti said:


> Have you tried using a clicker with him , been clever dogs sounds like he is trying it on with you , if he was mine i would use a clicker once he understands what that the clicker means Food i would introduce the lead having it in my hand he takes the food from so he has to touch it once he over comes that then i would clip it to his collar click him and reward and take it off building it up gradually this is the way i would do it


No actually, we've never had a clicker before. We might have to invest in one of those. lol. So far so good with putting the lead on him whilst tempting him with a treat! Fingers crossed! We are giving him some small bits of chicken slices as a treat instead of his usual treats. If we used his usual treats, he would end up a very good fat dog!!


----------



## Guest (Mar 26, 2009)

alienandy said:


> No actually, we've never had a clicker before. We might have to invest in one of those. lol. So far so good with putting the lead on him whilst tempting him with a treat! Fingers crossed! We are giving him some small bits of chicken slices as a treat instead of his usual treats. If we used his usual treats, he would end up a very good fat dog!!


Glad it's going well.


----------



## Changes (Mar 21, 2009)

wow he is a real cutie  keep up the great work


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

alienandy said:


> We have had Charlie since he was 9 weeks old and we have managed to get through all his biting etc... JUST!! The BIG problem we have with him at present is his refusal to wear his lead. He hates it! It's literally a fight and I physically have to hold him down to get his lead on. We are on his third lead at the moment which is a slip lead, because that's the only lead I can get on him!! As he pulls on the lead like mad, we want to use a new 'Gentle Leader' on him, but we have found it impossible to get it on. If I manage it he then dives on the floor quick and uses his front paws to pull it off! Everything now is just getting impossible, and now making me not wanting to take him for a walk! It is not at all pleasurable for me and certainly not for him, as half the time he's getting strangled with the lead! Infact, he has actually been sick on a number of occasions due to how much panting he has been doing during a walk!
> 
> We've had dogs before with absoloutely no problems whatsoever. But this is the first time we've had a puppy. NEVER AGAIN!
> 
> Any suggestions?


Dont forget he is only a baby, they go through lots of stages (some often very strange), we had a similar problem with the first springer we ever had he was the most lovely gentle dog you could have . . . . until we had to take his lead off he displayed such aggression he used to scare me, his lead was always taken off when we got back into the house after a walk, "i take this is where you put it on when you are going out". If i explain what i did and you obviously apply it in reverse as its when you go out and not when you come back. I used to use a treat like chicken or cheese not the treats i used any other time, when we arrived at the gate didnt try to take off his lead just gave him a treat and said good boy went for his lead if he growled made a noise any noise NOT his name the noise never used any other time if he stopped another good boy and a treat, i kept the treat in a closed fist touching his mouth so not a second was lost when the growling stopped, i gradually moved him closer to the door very slowly, it took along time and lots of patience but eventually when we arrived home he automatically stood still and put his mouth to my hand for the treat so i could give him the treat taking his lead off at the same time as he was munching on the treat, then he followed me into the house not realising the lead had been took off.

Give it a try but i cannot stress enough do it very very slowly and gradual, dont show any annoyance (and i know hatd hard at times) but it will just worsen the problem he will associate your annoyance and stress with an already stressfull situation for him. GOOD LUCK


----------



## alienandy (Jan 12, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Dont forget he is only a baby, they go through lots of stages (some often very strange), we had a similar problem with the first springer we ever had he was the most lovely gentle dog you could have . . . . until we had to take his lead off he displayed such aggression he used to scare me, his lead was always taken off when we got back into the house after a walk, "i take this is where you put it on when you are going out". If i explain what i did and you obviously apply it in reverse as its when you go out and not when you come back. I used to use a treat like chicken or cheese not the treats i used any other time, when we arrived at the gate didnt try to take off his lead just gave him a treat and said good boy went for his lead if he growled made a noise any noise NOT his name the noise never used any other time if he stopped another good boy and a treat, i kept the treat in a closed fist touching his mouth so not a second was lost when the growling stopped, i gradually moved him closer to the door very slowly, it took along time and lots of patience but eventually when we arrived home he automatically stood still and put his mouth to my hand for the treat so i could give him the treat taking his lead off at the same time as he was munching on the treat, then he followed me into the house not realising the lead had been took off.
> 
> Give it a try but i cannot stress enough do it very very slowly and gradual, dont show any annoyance (and i know hatd hard at times) but it will just worsen the problem he will associate your annoyance and stress with an already stressfull situation for him. GOOD LUCK


Thanks for that. Me and Jan really appreciate all your help on this. I'm determined to get him sorted. In the last two days he has learnt to sit and give me his paw when he wants a treat. What a guy! Just two days!! Hopefully other things will sort themselves out in time.

Since we were told the other day about the best way to get his lead on without a fight, he has been a lot better. The next thing now is to hopefully somehow stop him pulling!

Worse than having kids!! lol.


----------



## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

alienandy said:


> Thanks for that. Me and Jan really appreciate all your help on this. I'm determined to get him sorted. In the last two days he has learnt to sit and give me his paw when he wants a treat. What a guy! Just two days!! Hopefully other things will sort themselves out in time.
> 
> Since we were told the other day about the best way to get his lead on without a fight, he has been a lot better. The next thing now is to hopefully somehow stop him pulling!
> 
> Worse than having kids!! lol.


Bless him, what a star!!!
Well whwn you have mastered the art of stopping pulling let me into the secret will you


----------



## alienandy (Jan 12, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> Bless him, what a star!!!
> Well whwn you have mastered the art of stopping pulling let me into the secret will you


LOL!! Will do...


----------



## fun4fido (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi,

Lots of great advice for you already.

Let us know how you get on


----------

