# Recall problems



## maartje (Dec 4, 2008)

Hi

I have a 8 month old mastiff x staffy and i am having problems with recall. I have trained her from a pup, she has been very well socialised, is a well balanced, confident happy dog and she is very obedient at home and in the small park near where i live but she has recently stopped coming back when i call her if there is something more interesting to sniff or explore. If there is another dog or someone else walking she totally ignores me, i try not to call her too much when she has decided i don't exist as i know is it pointless but some people don't like dogs running up to them and i don't want her to be a nuisance. She is especially bad when i take her to the near by woods and she gets the scent of a squirrel or rabbit, then she's just off.. and i loose sight of her, sometimes upto about 10 minutes which really worries me. I whistle and shout her name but she just doesn't hear me! She does eventually come back but i don't like the fact i cant see her. 

I have tried the running away thing, and the squeaky toys and treats and being all exciting but she still just totally ignores me! 

I have seen a lot of advice of here about keeping her on a long line which is all well and good but i have seen people being tripped over by other peoples long leads and she is one who would run rings round someone then run off! plus when i take her into the forest she will just get snagged by the trees and plants.. i don't want to have to keep her on the lead all the time as the main reason i take her to the forest is so she can have a good run around and do what dogs do best....sniff and chase things! I just want her to have more respect for me and come when i call her! most of the time she is soo good! Should i change the word i use to recall her? Any advice anyone could offer would be very much appreciated!


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

This is such a common problem and there really is no quick and easy answer 

Training any command consists of several learning &#8216;levels&#8217; and recall is no different. When a command fails it is because it has not been trained in the higher level which requires proofing against distractions.

Level 1 is teaching your dog the meaning of the command/word. This is where you use the cue (ie word/whistle) and the dog understands and will respond. 

Level 2 teaches the dog to do the required action when he hears the cue , in the absence of distractions. 

Level 3 teaches your dog to do required actions on cue, even when he want to do something else. Often referred to as proofing against distractions. 
This is the part that most people skip. It is the longest part of any training programme, and the most difficult. Often you will manage quite well without this part until your dog matures and loses his fear of separation from you, discovering that there are more interesting things than you out there. Typically around 6 - 10 months of age, it is often referred to as the &#8216;Kevin&#8217; stage and people are often advised that their dogs will &#8216;grow out of it&#8217;. Which is simply not true. What happens is that the owner realises level 3 was missed out and goes back to training level 3, or they learn to live with it and manage the situation.

Dogs that are trained properly through Phase 3 do not experience a &#8216;Kevin&#8217; stage. It is caused by inadequate training 

One final thing that people often forget, and it is important, is maintenance. once you have established the level of training you want, you need to maintain relationship with your dog. 

It does sound like your dog has not been trained against distractions. So if you don't want to keep her on a lead you will need to train her against distractions.


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2008)

maartje said:


> Hi
> 
> I have a 8 month old mastiff x staffy and i am having problems with recall. I have trained her from a pup, she has been very well socialised, is a well balanced, confident happy dog and she is very obedient at home and in the small park near where i live but she has recently stopped coming back when i call her if there is something more interesting to sniff or explore. If there is another dog or someone else walking she totally ignores me, i try not to call her too much when she has decided i don't exist as i know is it pointless but some people don't like dogs running up to them and i don't want her to be a nuisance. She is especially bad when i take her to the near by woods and she gets the scent of a squirrel or rabbit, then she's just off.. and i loose sight of her, sometimes upto about 10 minutes which really worries me. I whistle and shout her name but she just doesn't hear me! She does eventually come back but i don't like the fact i cant see her.
> 
> ...


I have no advice whatsoever really but I would just like to let you know you aren't the only one. I have a 7 month Lab cross who is just like yours, not so bad with squirrels or anything but just awful when it comes to other dogs. I too have tried all the running away like a maniac, squeaking toys, playing tug when he gets to me etc and yes it works until there are other dogs around.

I too understand your difficulty with the long line. It's just not doable! I took Zach down the park yesterday after a terrible weekend of recall, aiming to start again from basics and always keep him on the long line. Its not practical at all though... other dogs come running to him and he starts to play and jump about, tangling them both up. Then I'm calling him, tugging on the line, and all hes doing is ignoring me and choking himself 15ft away...  I get some odd looks I tell you! I know its the most stupid thing to do but in the end I just let him off the line for a play with the woman's dog.

I'm really stuck in a rut with this too. I know its because I havent trained with distractions but how do I do that without using a long lead? A long lead just isn't working for me, I end up getting frustrated with a tangled dog (who I'm afraid soon will become injured/ injure someone else) and take it off him in the end - only for him to be ignoring me. In the house he comes immediately to call and when no dogs are around he'll come too. But when he sees another dog I break his concentration with my call - he looks up - and then as I try and run off squealing making it fun - he uses this as his chance to escape and is soon miles away. Its so embarassing and really taking all pleasure out of walking him


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## carol (Nov 2, 2007)

yeah they seem to do this type of thing at that age, you just have to keep on and on with training, and have a treat that is the most wonderful thing to them. i used cooked liver or even sausages, something they cant help wanting so much, when you first get to the park keep giving them the treat even before you let them off and then as soon as they go a little way call back give treat and fuss.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

Training a command against distractions is known as proofing and needs to be done in small stages, slowly and gradually increasing the difficulty.

As an example, what can influence is the number of dogs around and what they are doing. One dog sitting is much less of a distraction than a group running and playing. It is also much easier if he is sitting near you than if he is running towards another dog at 50 yards from you. So start small and work up only when you know you have a reliable recall at the previous level.

Most people try to introduce their dogs to lost of distractions in one go. Loads of dogs, distance, their dog runnning around, other dogs running around. Without realising it, they are setting up their dog to fail.

Start simple. Get a friend to sit their dog next to them. Sit your dog well away from the two of them and walk to a position between your dog and your friends dog. Call your dog and treat/heap praise upon him when he arrives. Because you are between him and the other dog you are in a position to prevent him reaching the other dog. If he skips around you to the other dog, you *must* enforce the command with a stern 'no' - go up to your dog , take his collar and bring him firmly to where you were when you called him repeating the recall command as you do so. Then try again. Use a long lead if necessary to prevent him disobeying, until he gets the idea.

When your dog can do this every time then you can make it more tempting - have the friend closer to your dog for example, and you further away. When this is easy for him, have the friend walk their dog up and down so the other dog is moving.

Once this has been mastered, then introduce a few dogs.. etc. etc...


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2008)

Ah Dundee, you are obviously one of those people that dogs respect, I have been around working gun dogs most of my life and only ever come across two people like you. Most of us struggle. All mine have done everything asked of them when in a training mode but as soon as we are out for a ramble it seems as if they forget most of what they have been taught. They are normally ok by the time they hit three.
I assume that you are the type of person that loves the training side of dog ownership, unfortunately I find it extremely hard work and do not gain any pleasure from it.
I envy you


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## vizzy24 (Aug 31, 2008)

Hi like Carol said this is quite common at that age if I were you I would go back to basics.What dundee say's makes a lot of sense. When they start doing as they are told we tend to skip a few things. I would step up the recalls in the home keep a few treats in your pocket and when she is really engrossed in playing or out in the garden. I would give her treats randomly so she never knows if she is going to get one. Start recalling her on walks when she is quite close. Give lots of praise and a few treats and things should be OK. Good luck


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## staflove (Sep 4, 2008)

get a whistle my staffy was horrible and i just rescued another staffy, i blow the whistle and the both come running and sit stright in front me should have got one years ago, when they come back they get a peice of sausage try it its worked wounders for me


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## sleeptalker (Apr 28, 2008)

with one of mine he will not come back to be put on the lead, he ignores me, standing just a short way away from me, doesn't turn his head or acknowledge my voice or whistle or have any interest in treats whatsoever. when i turn away from him, he'll come up but stay just out of reach and scoot away when i turn. if i call in a firm voice he gets skitterish. when running around the field i have some joy, he'll come and maybe have a treat but often he will not take it, not even garlic sausage, cheese etc. his brother is fab, comes, has a treat, comes back to go on the lead. this has become more of an issue of late, as before he would come with some coaxing so now he will have to stay on a long lead until he be trusted to return to go onto a lead, which is a shame as he adores being off the lead. am not sure if its the husky in him but like i said, his brother is fab.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> Ah Dundee, you are obviously one of those people that dogs respect, I have been around working gun dogs most of my life and only ever come across two people like you. Most of us struggle. All mine have done everything asked of them when in a training mode but as soon as we are out for a ramble it seems as if they forget most of what they have been taught. They are normally ok by the time they hit three.
> I assume that you are the type of person that loves the training side of dog ownership, unfortunately I find it extremely hard work and do not gain any pleasure from it.
> I envy you


I'm surprised you have only come across two other people - good basic obedience (including recall) under severe temptation is the foundation of gundog work.

Having a well trained dog is hard work - you get out what you put in, and I never separate training mode from having a ramble. Some dogs are easier than others, some owners/trainers have a natural authority that dogs pick up on, experience helps because you know how to avoid teaching them bad habits, but it still take a lot of work, and to be fair, more than the average pet owner is willing to put in, but you cannot have a well trained dog without it.

While they can appear to improve with age, it is not that their training is any better, more likely that as they get older, the distractions hold less appeal than they would to the average puppy/young dog that is excited about life. They are more likely to plod along having a sniff here and there, having a quick hello if they meet another dog, but without the same zest for life these youngsters have. If the distraction is sufficient, then they will still ignore the command.

I think most owners are probably happy to muddle along with a half trained dog, and that's fine if they are happy with that, but they cannot expect a well trained one without putting the time in. I think the biggest problem is that most people don't realise just how much work it does take. Dogs have very poor powers or generalisation. Teaching a dog some basic commands is just the very beginning. Proofing those commands against distractions is a far greater challenge, but is often overlooked.

PS... I struggle too sometimes - it doesn't just happen


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2008)

I always love your posts. They are so well put and informative,
It's not that I have only come across two people that can train dogs, but two with that special something. Don't know what it is but would like to be them


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