# Queen no kitties.



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

Hi to all and thank for reading my post.

Last year we bought a stunning exotic adult (2yr old) queen for the going rate for this breed and the on active reg with gccf. We bought her because we love the breed. My partner used to attend cat shows in Sweden with his mother which was a judge. So we had studied the breed and wanted to take it further ourselfs.

Anyways bought sweetie in Jan 2011 let her settle in and sent her to a rep gccf active stud in June. No sign of kittens, tried again same stud. Still nothing. So we thought maybe its the stud and tried another still nothing. 

She now calls again but silent can anyone advise we have run out of ideas.


----------



## Kittenfostermummy (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm the first to admit I don't know anything really about breeding but I will say I know of a BSH that calls and has been mated at least three times but proven studs with no resulting kittens so it appears she is barren and has therefore been neutered it is so sad as she is a beautiful cat and an unusual colour.


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Some just don't ever conceive. Was she a proven queen?


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Sadly when you buy a queen there is no guarantee that she will have kittens. If both the studs you have used are proven I would take the girl to a vet to see if they can find an obvious problem.
If she had not had kittens by the age of two when you bought her I would be wondering why. It is unusual to keep a breeding queen to that age without having her mated unless she was very late in coming into call. 
What were you told about her when you got her?


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

When we bought her we was told she had had one healthy litter. We got her off a guy in wirral which i thought was a little strange as the papers was in a ladies name and he signed as being her. Her address was in Wales. When I asked him he said it was his mother. hmmmmmmm


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Hmmmm, possibly a scam - he's not allowed to sign for his mother. Sorry!


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

I did have my doubts but she is a beauty we was in a hurry as had to get back. I asked him why is this name here. His simply reply was : oh she was my mothers which recently passed. I didnt really doubt this as you dont really do you. But I did notice another exotic whilst there also which was more or less identical to her. Do you think i could report this to gccf?


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

It's certainly worth following up and asking a few questions - maybe the guy was genuine but he should have transferred the cats into his name first and then sold them on. I have a feeling though you have a sterile cat there. Try her with another stud and see and if still no kitties off to the vets (or off to the vets first) and you may need to think about neutering and starting again.


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

Yeah its really sad though because she is a perfect example of the breed and such a softy  I think we will end up spaying her as i feel its unfair if she cant. She is also an outdoor (garden) cat and i think if it was going to happen it would of by now. She used to stay with these studs for a few wks at a time. Not just 3 days. 

We are now looking into a chinchilla persian and wont be making the same mistake again. This time its not a spur of the moment buy. This one has been looked into and they are a very reputable that has sadly bought back a kitten/cat due to change of curcumstances with its present family.


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Such a shame if you have an infertile queen  but I agree that having her spayed would be the best for her. 
It may be a good idea to see if you can find out about the transfer of ownership though, just to make sure that she is genuinely registered to you now.
I wish you better luck with your next girl - how old is she?


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

We not actually got her yet but been told she will be 9 months soon. 
We are going down in the next couple of days. 
Getting rather excited


----------



## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

Agree with advice given. 

I would firstly establish with GCCF if she is a registered active queen - did he give you a pink slip or was it just a pedigree - if it is just a pedigree then that could be false. If you do have a pink slip then there should be an address on it of the breeder so you could try to find the telephone number and perhaps contact them directly to see if this guy is telling the truth. The other way you could try perhaps is phone up one of the Exotic breed clubs, see if they recognise the prefix. They may be able to give you more details of the breeder if she was registered with them - or generally she may be known to them. Depends on how keen you are to establish her background.

I would be loathe to let her out in the garden whilst she is still entire and particularly if she is a silent caller - any passing unneutered tom would think his luck was in and try to mate her and he could be carrying any number of diseases.

Did the owners of the studs confirm matings had actually taken place? Some girls can be "rollers" making it difficult for the stud to mate them properly but I am assuming that having been to two different studs the owners would have told you if she was.

As already suggested it may be time to consider spaying her and enjoying her as a pet and continue your breeding plans with your new cat. 

It would be nice to see a picture of both your cats!


----------



## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Out of curiosity, you say she is a silent caller - how do you know when she is calling?


----------



## Crushmer (Nov 14, 2011)

Suzanne1973 said:


> She is also an outdoor (garden) cat and i think if it was going to happen it would of by now.


 An unspayed breeding queen, an outdoor cat??
So any old Tom, possibly infected with feline aids or/and Leukemia, can mate with her??

I'm sorry, but reading your comments, I don't think you should be breeding or at least you should do some more research before breeding...

Not trying to be mean, just mu honest opinion.


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

ChinaBlue said:


> Agree with advice given.
> 
> I would firstly establish with GCCF if she is a registered active queen - did he give you a pink slip or was it just a pedigree - if it is just a pedigree then that could be false. If you do have a pink slip then there should be an address on it of the breeder so you could try to find the telephone number and perhaps contact them directly to see if this guy is telling the truth. The other way you could try perhaps is phone up one of the Exotic breed clubs, see if they recognise the prefix. They may be able to give you more details of the breeder if she was registered with them - or generally she may be known to them. Depends on how keen you are to establish her background.
> 
> ...


Yes we have the pink slip and have tried to track them down but sadly had no luck. The stud owners told me she had been with there male several times and when I collected her she was very happy cuddling up with him.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Crushmer said:


> An unspayed breeding queen, an outdoor cat??
> So any old Tom, possibly infected with feline aids or/and Leukemia, can mate with her??
> 
> I'm sorry, but reading your comments, I don't think you should be breeding or at least you should do some more research before breeding...
> ...


thats what I thought!

*If* she has had a litter before (did you see any proof of this? reg slips/kitten pics/her with kittens?) Then she may have had a infection, and acourse of anti'bs may help.

But just reading on Id say to neuter her, he possibly knew that she was infertile and just wanted rid of her for more money : 
call the gccf about the paperwork, he may have bought from someone who said she cant be sold on to anyone else, most breeders have contracts that say if you buy a breeding queen they must be neutered first if you sell them.


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

messyhearts said:


> Out of curiosity, you say she is a silent caller - how do you know when she is calling?


She is very soft and loves her cuddles, when we first got her she used to roam around the house during the night screaming waking us all up. Now she rolls over the floor and when we cuddle or stroke her, she drops tail falls to the side. I was informed this was a silent call.


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

How do I upload pics plz
I can upload pics of sweetie but obvs i dont yet have the chinny till tmoz now.


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks to all for the replies. 
Yes our next step with sweetie would be to have her done. She is a happy cat and I dont wont to prolong her seasons. I am sure it could be causing some sort of distress?

I am very annoyed and would like to name and shame can this be done.


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Suzanne1973 said:


> How do I upload pics plz
> I can upload pics of sweetie but obvs i dont yet have the chinny till tmoz now.


You can upload from a site like photobucket or you can upload from your pc by clicking on the paperclip symbol next to the smiley at the top of the message page. 


Suzanne1973 said:


> Thanks to all for the replies.
> Yes our next step with sweetie would be to have her done. She is a happy cat and I dont wont to prolong her seasons. I am sure it could be causing some sort of distress?
> 
> I am very annoyed and would like to name and shame can this be done.


If she keeps calling without mating it can lead to infection of the womb so it will be best to have her spayed  
As frustrating as it is naming and shaming is not allowed due to slander laws, sorry.


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

This is sweetie


----------



## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Suzanne1973 said:


> She is very soft and loves her cuddles, when we first got her she used to roam around the house during the night screaming waking us all up. Now she rolls over the floor and when we cuddle or stroke her, she drops tail falls to the side. I was informed this was a silent call.


I'm not convinced that is a call and might be the issue. My cat does this and I am really sure it is pre-estrus. Does she 'paddle'? Is there a discharge or change to her?


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

messyhearts said:


> I'm not convinced that is a call and might be the issue. My cat does this and I am really sure it is pre-estrus. Does she 'paddle'? Is there a discharge or change to her?


Sorry I dont know what you mean.

Surely if it wasnt a call/season the males would have no intrest in her. As soon as they know she is in the home they are rather excited to say the least.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Suzanne1973 said:


> This is sweetie


best to neuter her, as in my previous post on the last page, can you get long hair exotics? I thought they were all shorthair? she doesnt look short hair?


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> best to neuter her, as in my previous post on the last page, can you get long hair exotics? I thought they were all shorthair? she doesnt look short hair?


She is short haired.


----------



## marleyboo (Oct 24, 2011)

Suzanne1973 said:


> This is sweetie


what a beautiful girl no wonder those boys were so interested! such a shame you cant breed her  shed make some beautiful fur babies.

but your probably right it would not be fair to have her keep calling if she isnt concieving any babies, id have her spayed.

gorgeous girl make sure you post more piccies of her xx


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

what health tests do they need? did you hav them re-done before mating? guess the many before didnt have any?

also why do you let her outside? what will you do if a moggie mates her??


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

I dont know why but i think this is becoming out of order I asked for advice not to get questioned into our breeding program. I am fully aware of all the tests that need to be done to prevent disease and the spread of it. Also vacs, meds if kittens was produced. I would and have followed gccf rules.

I am going to be making contact with gccf tmoz to tell them my story and see if they can help me track down the prev owner. If she still exists also. Once finished on call with them I will book her into our vets.

I dont know how a male could possibly get sweetie she is always in a closed off garden. She is always with one of us as follows us around the house and garden like a puppy. 

Sorry if i got the wrong end of it but this is how it has come across.


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Suzanne1973 said:


> I dont know why but i think this is becoming out of order I asked for advice not to get questioned into our breeding program. I am fully aware of all the tests that need to be done to prevent disease and the spread of it. Also vacs, meds if kittens was produced. I would and have followed gccf rules.
> 
> I am going to be making contact with gccf tmoz to tell them my story and see if they can help me track down the prev owner. If she still exists also. Once finished on call with them I will book her into our vets.
> 
> ...


This is a breeding forum...we discuss breeding? People ask me what health tests my chosen breed need, so I tell them, I have NO idea what health tests your breed needs, so I asked...in a breeding forum? I cant see a problem?



Crushmer said:


> *An unspayed breeding queen, an outdoor cat??
> So any old Tom, possibly infected with feline aids or/and Leukemia, can mate with her??*
> I'm sorry, but reading your comments, I don't think you should be breeding or at least you should do some more research before breeding...
> 
> Not trying to be mean, just mu honest opinion.





Suzanne1973 said:


> Yeah its really sad though because she is a perfect example of the breed and such a softy  I think we will end up spaying her as i feel its unfair if she cant. *She is also an outdoor (garden) cat and i think if it was going to happen it would of by now.* She used to stay with these studs for a few wks at a time. Not just 3 days.
> 
> We are now looking into a chinchilla persian and wont be making the same mistake again. This time its not a spur of the moment buy. This one has been looked into and they are a very reputable that has sadly bought back a kitten/cat due to change of curcumstances with its present family.


Thats is why I was shocked, you said that it would have happened by now as she is a outdoor cat, NO breeding cat should ever be let outside, if they are calling they will be over the fence quicker than you can blink and can roam miles, or you will attract a load os spraying fighting screaming under netered boys to you house!

the other quote was why I replied as I never noticed you said that!


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

When I said that if it was going to happen it would of done by now. What I meant was. She has been in stud 3 time for longer than usual stays. Again if it was going to happen it would of done by now with 3 different proven stud.
I always used make sure they are fully vet checked before mating.


----------



## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

She is a pretty girl. I think you will do right by spaying her and enjoying her as a much loved pet and starting again with your new cat - at least having done the research you know your new girl is legit.

Keep us updated.


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

ChinaBlue said:


> She is a pretty girl. I think you will do right by spaying her and enjoying her as a much loved pet and starting again with your new cat - at least having done the research you know your new girl is legit.
> 
> Keep us updated.


Thank and yes will do


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Suzanne1973 said:


> When I said that if it was going to happen it would of done by now. What I meant was. She has been in stud 3 time for longer than usual stays. Again if it was going to happen it would of done by now with 3 different proven stud.
> I always used make sure they are fully vet checked before mating.


see now it makes sense!  No one is having a go! I ask about health tests for the breed, for example my breeds need: health tests: HCM/PKD/PK-Def then the usual fiv/felv before the mating, but then I go one step further and chlamidya/herpes/calcivirus the house. Also (again just a question!) as they allowed to be out-crossed the persians/british shorthairs still? Might give you more of a option for stud, oh has she been to just one stud? As if a stud is mated lots of times they can have spells where even though they mate they dont produce any kittens, often if they are over-used, so always try 2 studs (also for anyone else reading!) Someone on here had 2 of them (dont see her anymore? gloworm/mushroom?) and they were goergeous! Have met some lovely ones at shows, had quite nice faces, not to smushed lol! :laugh:

So thats what I meant not a vet check, but the health tests for the breed, and I said that I guess the man* (sorry I wrote many) didnt have them done before he sold her, as from your story I doubt he cared, hence selling her to you probably knowing full well she cant/didnt get pregnant! 

make more sense lol?


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

Taylorbaby said:


> see now it makes sense!  No one is having a go! I ask about health tests for the breed, for example my breeds need: health tests: HCM/PKD/PK-Def then the usual fiv/felv before the mating, but then I go one step further and chlamidya/herpes/calcivirus the house. Also (again just a question!) as they allowed to be out-crossed the persians/british shorthairs still? Might give you more of a option for stud, oh has she been to just one stud? As if a stud is mated lots of times they can have spells where even though they mate they dont produce any kittens, often if they are over-used, so always try 2 studs (also for anyone else reading!) Someone on here had 2 of them (dont see her anymore? gloworm/mushroom?) and they were goergeous! Have met some lovely ones at shows, had quite nice faces, not to smushed lol! :laugh:
> 
> So thats what I meant not a vet check, but the health tests for the breed, and I said that I guess the man* (sorry I wrote many) didnt have them done before he sold her, as from your story I doubt he cared, hence selling her to you probably knowing full well she cant/didnt get pregnant!
> 
> make more sense lol?


Yes makes much more sense now sorry i totally got the wrong end of it. Yeah your prob right they did more than likely know that she couldnt concieve and sold her fast to make alot of money of somebody like myself. Such a shame that we cant name and shame. I will be reporting though to the gccf and hopefully they will investigate.

As for the studs she went to 3 seperate studs which we payed out for obvs stud fees travel expenses.

The studs was persians and a exotic. I dont think i would of put her with a BSH her lines was persian/exotic. And CH/GCH was included.

As for tests the most common are done felv/pkd/fiv.

Hope this is ok and done correctly


----------



## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

ahh ok I guessed that maybe pkd was in there somewhere lol! being part british, I dont think they allow outcrossing now, possibly ended! maybe they do Im not sure :blush:

oh 3 studs?  Guess its time to throw in the towel, I ended up neutering my F5 bengal, we tried a few studs, she just wouldnt mate  really gutted obviously lost alot of money, but then thats life/breeding! 

Id call the gccf though as you may find when you come to reg any kittens they cant do it, also didnt the studs check the paperwork? mine do and they scan it for ages!!! :blush: also look over the pedigree and can normally tell whose who or whose in both or they just know the names (some are always spelt wrong!) etc

Id neuter and start again and show her to? get used to being around the ring and what your looking for etc 

OH Who is your chinchilla from?? am very jealous!!


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

Anyone heard of these slatetown dafydd or admewsh kind koko

Her reg also states not to be shown at gccf shows?


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

The second name there has a generic prefix - given during a specific year for that breed when the breeder doesn't have their own prefix.
Not to be shown means that there could be some experimental lines in her breeding. My Siamese queen, Mai Tai, has silver oriental in her pedigree and cannot be shown for that reason. She is on the reference register (CSREF). Breeding from her is not a problem but her kittens go on the reference register too. There has to be five clear generations from the silver.


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Suzanne, one of my girls has Slatetown in her pedigree. If you want more information, please contact me privately.

My girl, incidentally the one with Slatetown in the pedigree, was very difficult to mate. I know you've been with studs, but have they told you that the boys have mated her? My girl was with three before one managed to get her, and he only succeeded because he was a crafty, very experienced, won't take no for an answer sort of stud. Perhaps that's what you need.

It's important to work out whether she has actually been mated and hasn't conceived, or whether she hasn't even been mated. If she wasn't witnessed mating, I'd be asking why you were charged stud fees too. If she rolls a lot then it will be very difficult for the boys to mate her.

I found that taking her to stud on the second day of a call is the most effective time. Well, the second or third day. You should also wait until she's in a strong call. Does she show aggression towards the stud boys? This can put some males off altogether.

As I say, please feel free to contact me more privately if you want more information on the pedigree etc.


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Suzanne, one of my girls has Slatetown in her pedigree. If you want more information, please contact me privately.
> 
> My girl, incidentally the one with Slatetown in the pedigree, was very difficult to mate. I know you've been with studs, but have they told you that the boys have mated her? My girl was with three before one managed to get her, and he only succeeded because he was a crafty, very experienced, won't take no for an answer sort of stud. Perhaps that's what you need.
> 
> ...


We will take thos into private chat. I have msg you hope i got it right lol.


----------



## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

It is always worrying when you buy a cat on active until it produces a litter as some are infertile, no ones fault ... just bad luck. We have an Havana kitten coming to us in a few weeks time for breeding when she is old enough. So we have everything crossed all will go well when the time comes...she is from a very good breeder though, we have used their stud and Mia our Siamese has produced some beauties.

You do right to get your girl spayed but before you do have you tried any homeopathic remedies which may help her? Have a search on pet homeopathy, there may be something. I use a lot of homeopathy for different conditions and also I give it for easier births too.

Your Exotic looks lovely, the only thing is that they can have respiritory problems and need their eyes bathing regular throughout each day don't they?..I know because I have one, he has to have regular injections to open up his airways when he struggles too much as he has bad respiritory problems, we took him on as an adult neuter. I bathe his eyes daily each morning and throughout the day, he is very playful though and everyone who meets him falls in love with him.

Someone else asked if you can get longhaired Exotics...yes you can, these are called Variants, (throw backs from the Persian breed) very pretty though.


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Sharon

It's not normal for them to have breathing problems as severe as that.

Long-haired exotics are still produced regularly today. They usually result from an exotic to Persian mating which is a recognised outcross in the Exotic breed. They are exotic longhairs because the Persian breed doesn't recognise them as Persians for genetic reasons, but that is likely to change in the near future thanks to the variant policy which was approved at the last GCCF committee meeting. Watch this space!


----------



## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

I know, our Dave was bred to the extreme and is very severe, but with lots of TLC and close contact with the vet he is content, each Birthday he passes is a bonus, we bought him as a young adult, he was 18 months old and has now just had his 4th Birthday which we never though we would see. I wish the more open pretty faced Persians and Exotics would be bred to reduce the risk of breathing problems for the likes of our Dave.


----------



## Suzanne1973 (Jan 14, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Suzanne, one of my girls has Slatetown in her pedigree. If you want more information, please contact me privately.
> 
> My girl, incidentally the one with Slatetown in the pedigree, was very difficult to mate. I know you've been with studs, but have they told you that the boys have mated her? My girl was with three before one managed to get her, and he only succeeded because he was a crafty, very experienced, won't take no for an answer sort of stud. Perhaps that's what you need.
> 
> ...


eventually managed to msg you

i cant seem to msg you


----------



## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Got a message from you today, Suzanne, so you must have sorted it out! I did send you one yesterday and have replied today, so let me know here if you don't get that.

Sharon, I think that it's poor breeding rather than anything else which makes Persians end up with horrendous breathing problems. I've seen quite a few typey cats now who have none of the problems that you mention in your poor boy. I guess it's just luck of the draw, and I'm playing devil's advocate here as both my girls are open. It's difficult to breed type from opens though, but I'll persist. I want those big nostrils that my girls have.


----------



## libby333 (Jan 25, 2012)

Have you considered she may have already been speyed? Lots of unscrupulous people selling cats. You have just learnt 1st lesson in breeding. If someone has a good queen that produces kittens they do not sell it. If they do it's got a problem. Usually! Gccf are totally useless with any problems they say it's a civil matter. Been there! Sorry you had this problem, just learn from it.


----------

