# Tracing Siamese - Prefix from 50's/60's



## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Hello,

Firstly, I'm not sure if this is the correct place to be posting this - so please correct me if it needs to be elsewhere.

My great grandma was a Siamese owner and breeder around the 1950s/60s - as a Siamese owner myself, all these years later, I am really keen to try and establish her breeding prefix and from there, see if I can trace her lines to modern day Siamese. I would love to breed Siamese myself one day, and my dream is to try and trace my great-grandma's lines so that I might be able to find a queen that I could breed from that descends from her cats and re-instate my great-grandma's prefix. 

I emailed the GCCF a while back and am waiting on a response - probably need to nudge them now, it's been a while! 

If any of you could offer any help and advice on this, I would greatly appreciate it. She was based in the Kent area and I know that all her cats were registered and shown regularly. I know that one of her stud boys was known as Beau and that she had a queen named Thalia. I know this is all very vague, but this is all I have to go on too!

My family on that side rib me for being a little obsessed with my cats and pampering them - but then they also tell me that my great grandma fed hers on raw meats exclusively from the butchers - I hear that rabbit was a favourite in particular! It's nice to feel that I am carrying on traditions of a relative that I never got to meet.

I have attached some pictures of her lovely cats and kittens.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

You are talking a long, long time ago. Suggest you get in touch with the various Siamese breed clubs:

the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy

Another thing - and one you should be doing anyway - is to go to shows in your area and talk to the Siamese breeders there.

One other thing - are we allowed to know your great-gran's name? Someone might know her prefix from her name.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Just tried to PM you with more info, but I can't. Can you PM me please?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

ooo, I like those Siamese shapes!!!! Good luck.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Couldn't work out why I can't pm either but just looked at the FAQ section and it's because I'm new and have not made enough posts yet! Yes, she was called Florence Howard. 
You've just jogged my memory about a man I met at a show actually, he was quite helpful and gave me his business card - I'll have to dig it out. 

Thanks spid, they're lovely aren't they?!


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## Misi (Jul 13, 2009)

We had a Siamese, born in 1971 (died 1989) and I was kind of curious in a similar way to the OP. I Googled the name of one of his parents and he was referenced in an article reminiscing the strange names of bygone Siamese. He also turns up in the second generation (of 15 cited ) of an OSH breeder. My mum keeps losing, re-finding, then losing his pedigree again.  I wish she would refind it as I'm super curious about Googling some of his other ancestors! His kennel name was Yanko, and there's no info for them, but his dad (as far as I remember, but at least in his pedigree) was Champion Siepoo Storm


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

wow there really different to todays siamese arnt they my 1st thought was they look more bsh-ish than siamese.really lovely.hope you get some luck. keep in touch to let us know the outcome :thumbup:


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

What a wonderful thing to be doing. I got my first Siamese in 1974 - his name was Brackenden Tamarack. I can let you have a copy of his pedigree to see if any of them names on there ring any bells.
You need 25 posts before you can send and receive PMs - so get posting


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Yes, very different but there are still some breeders around producing the 'old' type Siamese. It would be so interesting if I could trace her cats and could see what their descendants look like today! 

Thanks Lynn, that would be great, if you don't mind? I did find a book online a while ago that listed all the prefixes registered with the cat fancy against the breeders name, I think it was from the late 50's. I trawled through every one of them, but no luck. There were some quite shocking prefixes though!!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

im exited about this thread you have 3 more posts to make b4 you can pm.Come on siamese breeders where are you all.:thumbup:


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I will now have to hunt for Solly's pedigree  I know I had it when we moved a couple of years ago and I 'think' I know where it is.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Thank you!  don't go to too much trouble though, I know what it's like to 'think' you know where something is... Then two hours later you've turned out every drawer/ cupboard etc!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

yipee..

Op think you will have to have a search for your too..i hate it when you cant find things it really annoying.


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## Monika Marta (Jun 28, 2012)

I am really suprised how 'non-exotic' those old Siamese look! 
But, I cannot help you in any way, but will keep finger crossed - and read your thread. I think it is exciting what you are trying to find out.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Monika Marta said:


> I am really suprised how 'non-exotic' those old Siamese look!
> But, I cannot help you in any way, but will keep finger crossed - and read your thread. I think it is exciting what you are trying to find out.


Thank you  ive got lots of pictures of her cats, it's interesting because there are some that are far more 'modern' in looks. So my assumption is that these were later bred cats than the ones I posted originally. There's also a photo of two VERY manly looking boys - I'll have to scan some more photos in. It is very interesting to compare then and now. I'd love to have known her thoughts on breeding, what she bred for etc


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Misi said:


> ...Champion Siepoo Storm


Here you go:
Siepoo Storm

The ultra-type modern Siamese are too much for me, I prefer the slightly less extreme Orientals. Of course I adore the very un-typy Caramel-point purring away right now. He has fabulous bright blue eyes as well.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Here you go:
> Siepoo Storm
> 
> The ultra-type modern Siamese are too much for me, I prefer the slightly less extreme Orientals. Of course I adore the very un-typy Caramel-point purring away right now. He has fabulous bright blue eyes as well.


Had a google of that earlier too :thumbup:

Yes, my blue tortie, Rosie is cross eyed, cobby and has very thick, dense fur. She'd get laughed out of the show ring, but: she is the sweetest natured cat and has the lovliest, quirky character - I wouldn't change a thing about her!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

His sister (blue Oreintal) is typier, feminine, dainty, fine-boned, and the only fault I can see at present (not being a judge of course) is her tail is a tad short. Hopefully she will give me some Oriental beautiful babies. She is coming up to 5 months now that's a few months away as yet. I'm hoping for a lovely Havana.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> His sister (blue Oreintal) is typier, feminine, dainty, fine-boned, and the only fault I can see at present (not being a judge of course) is her tail is a tad short. Hopefully she will give me some Oriental beautiful babies. She is coming up to 5 months now that's a few months away as yet. I'm hoping for a lovely Havana.


That's very exciting!! Bernard's dad was a blue oriental - very handsome! I do love Havanas - fingers crossed the gene fairy grants your wish 

I would love to breed one day, still a long way off for me yet though


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> im exited about this thread you have 3 more posts to make b4 you can pm.Come on siamese breeders where are you all.:thumbup:


Noooo don't pm! It's all so interesting, keep it out in the open!

I am fascinated with all this

Good luck notnowbernard!! You are doing a fabulous thing

Where is that online prefix book?


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## Misi (Jul 13, 2009)

OrientalSlave said:


> Here you go:
> Siepoo Storm
> 
> The ultra-type modern Siamese are too much for me, I prefer the slightly less extreme Orientals. Of course I adore the very un-typy Caramel-point purring away right now. He has fabulous bright blue eyes as well.


OMG!! I didn't see this when I was Googling. Gotta love Pawpeds. Isn't is just amazing what you can find online, now???


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## Misi (Jul 13, 2009)

Cross-referencing the pedigrees in Pawpeds, I recognise loads of names from my Siamese lad's pedigree. I wish my mother would find his flipping pedigree!


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## louise cat crazy lady (Feb 1, 2011)

My grandma and grandad got their fist siamese cat in the 60's. He was from a breeder in Kent. He was called Celius. I can ask my grandma if she remembers the prefix or poss has his pedigree.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I have tracked down Solomon's pedigree - it's in the attic  but I will go up there over the weekend. I've been trying to remember some of the names on it but can only remember one - Tamarack Tao ... oooh just remember dad was something like Taspertu Spindleberg
ETA - found him on Pawpeds :thumbup:
Taspertu Spindleberg


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## louise cat crazy lady (Feb 1, 2011)

just looked on pawpeds and my boys names didn't come up when i put them in :confused1:


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It's possible they haven't been added to the data base. I haven't put mine on there yet must get round to doing it.


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## louise cat crazy lady (Feb 1, 2011)

does the breeder do this? my boys are 2 so i guess they won't get added now if.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I think you can do it - you have to email copies of pedigree and registration slips. Click on submit info and it will tell you who to send it to. I've just looked and neither of Mai Tai's parents are on there but the dad to my kittens is :thumbup:


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

louise cat crazy lady said:


> just looked on pawpeds and my boys names didn't come up when i put them in :confused1:


i can only find my older Siamese on there too louise 

not to worry you don't need it. Just select another name from the next generation on your pedigree to search their ancestors


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

louise cat crazy lady said:


> My grandma and grandad got their fist siamese cat in the 60's. He was from a breeder in Kent. He was called Celius. I can ask my grandma if she remembers the prefix or poss has his pedigree.


Hi Louise, wow - yes please! That would be great if you could? Thank you 



lymorelynn said:


> I have tracked down Solomon's pedigree - it's in the attic  but I will go up there over the weekend. I've been trying to remember some of the names on it but can only remember one - Tamarack Tao ... oooh just remember dad was something like Taspertu Spindleberg
> ETA - found him on Pawpeds :thumbup:
> Taspertu
> Spindleberg


Thank you Lynn, I really appreciate your help  I looked through the photos again earlier and there was one made into a Christmas card dated 1956 - the handwriting is hard to decipher but it looks as though the cats name is 'Paske' or something along those lines. Of course, if it's just a pet name it may have nothing to do with her registered name and be of no use, but it's a good starting point!!

Thanks again, I will look at your link now


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## louise cat crazy lady (Feb 1, 2011)

where abouts in kent was she? They lived in Rochester when they got Celius. They got their next siamese in the 80's. They were called Suyin and Karsha. They got their names from celius' pedigree.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Rochester! Her name was Florence Howard


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## louise cat crazy lady (Feb 1, 2011)

Notnowbernard said:


> Rochester! Her name was Florence Howard


OOOh wouldn't it be weird if they got him from her


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## MollyMilo (Feb 16, 2012)

louise cat crazy lady said:


> OOOh wouldn't it be weird if they got him from her


amazing!!! it must be :thumbup:


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## louise cat crazy lady (Feb 1, 2011)

MollyMilo said:


> amazing!!! it must be :thumbup:


not necessarily, there are lots of siamese breeders about. Deffo worth asking the grandparents though isn't it!?!


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

louise cat crazy lady said:


> OOOh wouldn't it be weird if they got him from her


I know, my heart literally jumped when you said Rochester - it can't be this easy, surely?!


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

louise cat crazy lady said:


> not necessarily, there are lots of siamese breeders about. Deffo worth asking the grandparents though isn't it!?!


Definitely - it would be the craziest stroke of luck if it turned out to be her!


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## louise cat crazy lady (Feb 1, 2011)

I shall give them a ring tomorrow. I don't know if they got him from Rochester, just know they lived there then.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Thank you so much, Louise! I really appreciate it


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

MollyMilo said:


> Noooo don't pm! It's all so interesting, keep it out in the open!
> 
> I am fascinated with all this
> 
> ...


 Thank you  
Here is the link to the book:

GCCF Siamese Prefixes


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## louise cat crazy lady (Feb 1, 2011)

Phoned my grandma today and the breeder they got him from surname was Robinson. She is going to dig out the pedigree and photocopy it and we can send it to you as it might be of some help.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

Thank you Louise, that's so kind of you and your grandparents  :thumbup:
I've been doing some emailing today also - maybe something will come of that too!


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