# cheated by british shorthair breeder in U.K.



## annieksa (Dec 9, 2013)

Hello all,
about 2 years ago I decided to purchase a british shorthair breeding pair from Scotland from an allegedly reputable breeder. I brought the cats to my country and my home. I loved the cats on sight, about a month later I started seeing health issues with these cats such as rectal bleeding in one, eye infection and upper resp. infection in the other. The eye infections in the female became chronic. Sadly, 50% of the kittens born to my girl died( 2 were 10 weeks old and one of them had an "anatomical defect"), and an entire litter that the male sired from a different female died also. In addition to this-the cats I purchased are british shorthair and the majority of the kittens who lived (3 out of 4) turned out to be british long hair (very long hair). All of the kittens developed eye infections after 1 week of birth and lasted til 10 weeks,( the breeder told me to do what she does-give all of the cats l-lysine which i later found out is used mainly for feline herpes) I informed the breeder of all of these health issues and dead kittens-only to get a flippant answer every time. The long haired kittens was the last straw and when I told the breeder I wanted a refund of some type-maybe only difference between pet price and breeder price because I had to neuter male due to dead kittens and excessive urinating on everything except litter box. The breeder wrote to me and lectured me and tried to bully me-taking no responsiblity at all. Now she has removed her fb page and is basically hiding from me. I have filed a complaint with GCCF but haven;t heard back-I assume they are very busy. I am out a lot of money-the cost of the pair of cats, cost of shipping and consular services, cost of excessive vet bills. I have never had so much trouble with any cat I have had in the past, I cannot sell these cats-I don;t want to pass on my problems to others. I wonder if anyone else has had problems with british shorthair breeders ( Idon;t want to mention the breeders name). One other woman complained about this breeder and the breeder blasted the woman on fb. Does GCCF usually answer the complaints in a timely manner? thanks in advance for any useful advice.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Does GCCF usually answer the complaints in a timely manner? thanks in advance for any useful advice.


When did you put in your formal complaint? I'd say it would be just about impossible to adjudicate this if you waited months or even years to complain. Have you had post mortem examinations on the dead kittens and got proof the issues are genetic rather than environmental?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

The long hair kittens were the last straw.

You do understand dont you that both parents have to carry the LH gene to get LH kittens,something you could have tested for before you got your kitten.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm not being flippant and understand only too well how upsetting this kind of thing can be - but I think you will have to try and put it all down to experience. As Havoc has said, unless your complaint was made to GCCF very, very soon after purchasing your kittens you have very little hope of a, for you, positive outcome... and I do understand that problems often don't come to light until much later on for various reasons.

Can I ask what led you to believe, in choosing who to purchase kittens from, that the breeder was 'reputable' ?


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## annieksa (Dec 9, 2013)

unfortunately I have had the cats almost 2 years and I have just made a complaint, after nearly 2 years I look back and see all that has happened, how many times i've taken the cats to the vet and I realize how bad it really is. The kittens with longhair were the last straw for me and that is what triggered me to contact GCCf, I realize I probably won;t get help for my problems because I waited so long, I'm upset overall with everything and especially getting mostly long haired kittens-I hear that both parents have to carry the long haired gene. I suspect the breeder knew this because the male she sold me was a really special male and older (7 months) at the time she sold him to me-now I wonder why he was so old at the time she sold him and if maybe she knew he had the longhair gene and couldn;t sell him to anyone else. I suspect that she knew the female was weak as well.I hope noone else gets sucked in as I did.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

annieksa said:


> unfortunately I have had the cats almost 2 years and I have just made a complaint, after nearly 2 years I look back and see all that has happened, how many times i've taken the cats to the vet and I realize how bad it really is. The kittens with longhair were the last straw for me and that is what triggered me to contact GCCf, I realize I probably won;t get help for my problems because I waited so long, I'm upset overall with everything and especially getting mostly long haired kittens-I hear that both parents have to carry the long haired gene. I suspect the breeder knew this because the male she sold me was a really special male and older (7 months) at the time she sold him to me-now I wonder why he was so old at the time she sold him and if maybe she knew he had the longhair gene and couldn;t sell him to anyone else. I suspect that she knew the female was weak as well.I hope noone else gets sucked in as I did.


So its the 2 cats you got from the breeder who together produced the LH kittens? Again if this was important to you that the dont carry it you could have got them tested for the LH gene before you bought them thats what people here do.

Alot of brits carry the LH gene.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience. But really, the fact that both cats are longhair carriers is neither here nor there. Very many BSH carry the longhair gene; some breeders seek to eradicate it over the generations, others do not. If purchasing/breeding from BSH's that did not carry the longhair gene was a prime concern from the outset the, with respect, I cannot understand why you did not ask the breeder if there was a possibility that the cats were longhair carriers and, if there was any doubt, ask that a (very inexpensive and simple) dna test be carried out prior to purchase.


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

Sorry you have had a bad experience but what I don't understand is why you have not had the pair genetic tested and also health tested for all the problems you have had from them and then breeding from them sorry made no sense to me 

Loss of kittens could be due to many things . Genetic . Enviromental and being bred incorrectly. Ie wrong blood groups etc 

As for the long hair gene. .. It happens as most BSH carry the gene as already stated


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Down to preference obviously but i get excited when a LH pops up in a litter :001_tt1:


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

All five of my British carry the gene. So there is a high chance am gonna get Fluffs in my litters. ..


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## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

You sound like you have had a bad time and I feel bad for you. I am a new breeder and I know how hard it is to get started. Before I got my girls I did some research and swatted up on some basic genetics so I had a good idea of what my girls could carry and also discovered Langfords which do DNA testing, it's so helpful, you can find out whether they carry longhair, dilute, chocolate, cinnamon, colourpoint, what blood group, PKD etc. 
Did you get in touch/make a complaint to your breeder when the problems first arose as kittens? Also did your vet tell you what exactly you were dealing with? I presume you wouldn't have bred your girl if she wasn't in tip top health at the time so it could perhaps be incompatable blood groups?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am sorry that you have had problems but you say the kittens started showing symptoms of illness shortly after you took them home - why did you carry on and breed from them? Did you consult a vet to ask if they were clear of any problems?
I have lost kittens this year but I know that my queens were both in good health before going to stud.
The longhair gene could have been checked for very easily and as others have said you could have asked the breeder about it before hand if you really did not want longhairs in your breeding programme.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Also wernt the litter 10 week when they died? This wont be blood group issues then but theother litter that died does sound like it could be blood group issue..did you test the blood group?

Its a very good question 'why did you breed the cats if they wernt healthy and had on going problems?'


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

This sounds like yet another case of someone inexperienced thinking that breeding is all about cute kittens and chocolate box pics. It really isn't. I know people who want to get into breeding are convinced it will be that way for them and experienced breeders are only trying to put them off because we don't want the competition. Stories such as this one show it couldn't be further from the truth. Yes, the breeder you should want to buy from will not ever just sell you a kitten for breeding without question. Yes, they will be very suspicious of your motives. Yes, they will want to mentor you and guide you through your first litter(s). Yes, they care deeply. Even then they can make mistakes and their name can be wrecked because a rogue novice is convinced they know better - they don't.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

So, let me get this straight. one of your reasons for neutering your boy was because he pee'd on everything? And you want a refund because a BSH pair produced long-haired kittens? This begs the question, do you know much about breeding at all, and your own breed in particular? Entire males DO wee on everything except the litterbox. It's why most males are kept in purpose built, easily cleaned and sanitised quarters. What did you think you were buying? A nice house pet that would give you kittens every now and again? Did you research the lines? Did you ask your breeder whether this boy's parents or grandparents were clean toileters or sprayed everywhere? Not that's it's 100% genetic, but the likelihood of getting a sprayer is reduced if it doesn't run in the line, by my own experience anyway.

Then, to make matters worse, you say that your girl's eye condition went on to be chronic, but you bred from her anyway. Did you have the cat tested for herpes, clammydia etc, or did you just hope it would go away and wouldn't pass to the kittens?

Did you test blood types before breeding your male to your female, or your friend's female? Do you even know what blood type your male is? If it was blood type incompatibility where the whole litter died, then you have nobody to blame for that but yourself.

What anatomical defect did they have? Again, did you ask the breeder whether she had any problems with her lines? Sometimes, these defects just pop up with no prior warning, so if you asked and she had no problems, you can't really blame her for that either.

So, to sum up, you're blaming her for rectal bleeding (cause not stated). you're blaming her for eye infections (valid) which you then didn't go on to manage propperly, i.e breeding your girl when you shouldn't have, absence of testing etc. You're blaming her for the fact that your kittens caught this eye infection even though you knew your girl had it and bred her anyway. You're blaming her that your stud boy sired a litter who all died, yet sight no evidence of blood type for the parents. You're blaming her that a kitten had an anatomical defect, even though, I'm assuming, the parents don't. You're blaming her that the parents produced long-hairs, even though this is clearly prevalent in the breed...

Good luck... Somehow i don't think this one's going to go in your favour. you might have got it with the unhealthy kittens that you originally brought, had you tested and had you submitted your complaint before trying to breed them and throwing all your toys out the pram because you didn't get what you wanted, but I doubt it at this late stage.


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## annieksa (Dec 9, 2013)

Now I know that I would have.to ask the.breeder specifically to test the 2 cats for the longhair gene but I was assured by the breeder after talking to her a lot that she was choosing the best breeding pair for me. Honestly in all my research I didnt come across any information warning me to look out for that issue. The breeder has a large cattery in scotland and has produced many show cats, we can just chalk it up to my being naive I guess-an expensive and disappointing lesson.


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## annieksa (Dec 9, 2013)

The best and only answer I can give to all of the questions such as: how could you not have had them genetically tested, how could you not have tested them for LH gene, why didn;t you tell breeder about the problems as soon as they happened?--- I trusted the breeder 100%, I trusted her integrity and ethics- we exchanged emails often, I was proud to be dealing with a great breeder such as her.
I did tell the breeder about every single issue that popped up and got an answer from her on every issue such as-give them l lysine, this breed is very weak and will have problems, it's ok-don;t worry, etc. 
I trusted this breeder stupidly-due to her large following, her facebook pages promoting all of her SHORTHAIR kittens ( funny how she never had a long hair kitten and I had most LH)
My location is very far from Europe-Im amerian living in the middle east, so giving the cat back or showing up on her door step wasn;t an option. Just goes to show that you cannot trust any breeder no matter how great their reputation. I did research for over a year but obviously didn;t focus on important issues such as the possibility of getting longhair kittens. 
Why did I breed my female even though she had the eye infections? I didn;t realize how severe it was going to be and that the kittens would also have eye infections-all of the issues I faced were down played by the breeder. The kittens are healthy now-I purchased strong vitamin drops from the vet and gave them regularly and shortly after the eye infections stopped and they haven;t had them since. 
As for the environment I have here-i keep it very clean, it's spacious and well ventilated, they have an outdoor garden also that is fenced in for them to get fresh air and explore, they also have the run of the house now that i have gotten the male fixed. What hurts me is that now my dream of breeding british shorthairs is dead since I cannot sell these problematic cats to others. I hope someone learns from my experience- no matter what, don;t buy from outside of your area and do not trust anything the breeder says-do your own research and ask for evidence. It's my fault for being naive and not experienced in this area ( and she well knew this). I've owned cats my entire life and have NEVER had to take a cat to the vet so much as with these.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

annieksa said:


> The best and only answer I can give to all of the questions such as: how could you not have had them genetically tested, how could you not have tested them for LH gene, why didn;t you tell breeder about the problems as soon as they happened?--- I trusted the breeder 100%, I trusted her integrity and ethics- we exchanged emails often, I was proud to be dealing with a great breeder such as her.
> I did tell the breeder about every single issue that popped up and got an answer from her on every issue such as-give them l lysine, this breed is very weak and will have problems, it's ok-don;t worry, etc.
> I trusted this breeder stupidly-due to her large following, her facebook pages promoting all of her SHORTHAIR kittens ( funny how she never had a long hair kitten and I had most LH)
> My location is very far from Europe-Im amerian living in the middle east, so giving the cat back or showing up on her door step wasn;t an option. Just goes to show that you cannot trust any breeder no matter how great their reputation. I did research for over a year but obviously didn;t focus on important issues such as the possibility of getting longhair kittens.
> ...


*
*

Sadly every breed has particular weaknesses. It may have been that because you bred two cats which may have been closely related, these have become exacerbated. There is nothing to say that if you chose a different (health-tested, DNA-tested) stud for your queen, that you would not have the kittens you hoped for.

I can't see why you can't sell the kittens. They are still cats, and will make good pets even if people can't show them. Not everyone wants to show or breed.

However, I think you are right to abandon your 'dream' of breeding these cats - or any cats. You obviously don't have the right mindset for a breeder; you do not health/DNA test your animals; you breed from animals which are obviously unwell (didn't think the eye problem was as bad? so what? If there was anything AT ALL wrong you get it cleared up first - how can you expect a queen to fight an infection, however minor, when her body it putting all of its efforts into her pregnancy?); you haven't the faintest clue how to manage an entire tom-cat, and can't tolerate him when he does what entire toms do - spray everywhere; you don't know the genetics involved and apparently aren't prepared to learn - the list is endless!

You warn people not to take everything they are told as the truth and to do their own research - good advice to everyone. I'm sure that even very experienced breeders do this. But you claim to have done research for a year before getting your kittens, so what did that research consist of? You don't seem to have learned very much about the breed at all.

I don't know whether this breeder that you got the cats from cheated you or not, or whether she gave you appropriate advice or not because I don't know what has gone on other than the very little you have told us. How do you know that she NEVER got a longhair kitten? And if she didn't, maybe it was because she did her homework! The other cats that you never had to take to the vet - well, if they were moggies they are more likely to have been hardier in general.

I'm sorry that you are unhappy about your lack of success - but I'm even sorrier for these little cats bred by someone who didn't know what they were doing, and who now doesn't want them.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> we exchanged emails often.......
> I trusted this breeder stupidly-due to her large following, her facebook pages


When you visited what was it like? How many breeders did you contact before deciding on this one?


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I cant see why you cant sell the longhaired kittens, some people like them


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

I am not a breeder. 

The breeder I adopted Cookie from, bought her from the original breeder, however once DNA testing had been carried out the results showed Cookie was not going to produce the type of kitten the second breeder wanted - hence the reason she was offered for adoption. 

Therefore I can only conclude that breeders do and should DNA test to ensure they are going to produce the kittens they want.


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## NorthernDarkness (Jan 9, 2013)

annieksa said:


> I trusted this breeder stupidly-due to her large following, her facebook pages promoting all of her SHORTHAIR kittens ( funny how she never had a long hair kitten and I had most LH)


It is very much possible she never got anything but shorthair kittens, even if her lines carry longhair. That's just how genetics work. For example I am trying to get longhair kittens, even imported a longhair queen for the purpose, and yet she's only given me shorthair kittens. 
May I ask what were the reasons you chose these certain lines to breed from? Or did you simply choose a breeder and whatever they happened to have available with a phenotype you fancied?

You still did not reply to anyone who asked if your cats were tested for pretty much anything? Even the basic health tests for breeding cats?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Cant quite believe what i am reading YOU are rubbishing a breeder cause of YOUR lack of understanding regarding feline breeding,how frustrating this is for me to read.No tests on these cats is bad if those kittens died to to blood group issues then thats your fault. 

Well you only have yourself to blame for not doing your research first ,dont bring other breeders down and ruin their reputation cause of your mistakes.


This is very much possible the stress of a long trip for the kitties triggered an illness that can happen.

You got mostly long hair kitten by pure chance the LH fairy was good to you


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## annieksa (Dec 9, 2013)

Wow, what extremely rude and uncaring people there are in this forum. For sure I would never purchase a cat from people like you! If u had read my post u would see that I did not have access to the cat to test it due to the long distance between us. This comes back to what I said originally which is dont trust any breeder no matter how great the reputation, do your own research and demand multiple tests before fully paying. There is something called ethic s and should be used by breeders, not trickery. You breeders can all defend each other but remember karma people, one day it will come back to haunt you. Instead of staunchly supporting each other and bashing your customers why dont u be honest and helpful. My breeder blew me off when I brought up a concern, had she shown a little compassion to a new breeder we wouldn't be here talking about this today. The world is a small place today ladies with the net, and your businesses relies on word of mouth and good reputation , so if I were you (and im glad I am not) I would treat people better.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

jaycee05 said:


> I cant see why you cant sell the longhaired kittens, some people like them


They're very much unwanted over here, while most breeders have bred out the LH there are a few who still get some LH kittens. People don't want them, they want a SH Brit.
Some of these breeders others would never know they've had a long hair, they're quietly placed in pet homes or kept as pets if a home can't be found.



annieksa said:


> I hope someone learns from my experience- no matter what, don;t buy from outside of your area and do not trust anything the breeder says-do your own research and ask for evidence.


That's not entirely true, cats are imported and exported every day without meeting in person or flown across the country without problems. What does help is being known before jumping into breeding, knowing other breeders, talking to them and getting recommendations.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> That's not entirely true, cats are imported and exported every day without meeting in person or flown across the country without problems.


Not here they aren't. It simply isn't how things happen here in the UK, mainly because there isn't any need. Breeders do occasionally export cats to other breeders but I don't think I've ever heard of one doing so to a complete novice on the back of email contact. I did wonder why the OP had chosen the UK to buy from when other countries have so much more experience in this sort of thing but my question on how many other breeders she had contacted and at least spoken to before deciding to buy from this one has remained unanswered.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

annieksa said:


> Wow, what extremely rude and uncaring people there are in this forum. For sure I would never purchase a cat from people like you! If u had read my post u would see that I did not have access to the cat to test it due to the long distance between us. This comes back to what I said originally which is dont trust any breeder no matter how great the reputation, do your own research and demand multiple tests before fully paying. There is something called ethic s and should be used by breeders, not trickery. You breeders can all defend each other but remember karma people, one day it will come back to haunt you. Instead of staunchly supporting each other and bashing your customers why dont u be honest and helpful. My breeder blew me off when I brought up a concern, had she shown a little compassion to a new breeder we wouldn't be here talking about this today. The world is a small place today ladies with the net, and your businesses relies on word of mouth and good reputation , so if I were you (and im glad I am not) I would treat people better.


Unfortunately, Annieksa, you've been a victim of your own naivety. I had pretty much the same experience when I started breeding. The internet was in its infancy at that time and, as a newcomer, I relied upon choosing a breeder based upon their consistent show successes and, therefore, what I believed to be some of the best lines available; basically exactly the same way as yourself but without all the bells and whistles of a breeder having an impressive looking web site and hundreds of breeder "friends" on social networking sites singing their praises. Much of it, all too often, is an illusion.

You've purchased cats at a great distance, relying upon nothing but that 'illusion'... just as I did. Nobody is arguing the fact that it is inexcusable for any breeder to sell kittens (whether for pets or breeding) when they perceive there may be future health problems or simply not making the purchaser aware that breeding cats may carry harmless traits (i.e. the longhair gene as in this case) that the new breeder would not want.

Unfortunately, you've found to your cost, as I did, that there is a whole lot more to giving yourself the best possible start than choosing cats based on such a terribly narrow criteria.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I think I've been quite clear in saying that the eye infections definitely are something that looks like it came from the breeder. However, when it comes to testing, I'm talking about testing YOU should/could have done. Let me put it more clearly. Yes or no answers would be great.

Did you test your breeding cats and your friend's girl for blood type?
Were the blood types compatible?
Did you test your girl with the recurrent eye infections for herpes and clammydia before breeding?
Did you ask the breeder whether her cats carried LH?
Did you tell the breeder you didn't want LH speciifcally?
Did you have a post-mortum done on the kittens to find out whether their deaths can be attributed to genetics or chance?
Did you discover the cause for the rectal bleeding?
Do you still believe that your entire boy cat was behaving inappropriately when urinating outside of the litterbox? If so, what did you expect?


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

As for the implied threat to our BUSINESS, I hate to tell you this, but breeding is not a business. It's a hobby, and it's perhaps not worthwhile implying that you will slander the character of people you don't know. Lible is not a great thing to have added to the list.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

carly87 said:


> As for the implied threat to our BUSINESS, I hate to tell you this, but breeding is not a business. It's a hobby, and it's perhaps not worthwhile implying that you will slander the character of people you don't know. Lible is not a great thing to have added to the list.


The BUSINESS bit did make me smile - just shows how far off the OP is in what proper cat breeding is about.


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## catgeoffrey (Jun 28, 2012)

I don't often stray in to breeding (because I don't) but I have to say OP it appears you didn't do all the research you could have done before purchasing your kittens.
There are tests you need to do to check for certain traits etc - I accept you didn't know about them at the time but there you go. You can't blame the breeder for that.
Breeders take a great deal of care over their kittens - when we got our BSH he got an eye infection after coming home but we spoke to the vet and the breeder and got it cleared up and he's been in fine health ever since.
I do think you have been unlucky but there is no need to have a go at the breeders here - the advice they have given you is good advice. Chalk this one down to experience I think and enjoy your cats!


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## korrok (Sep 4, 2013)

annieksa said:


> Wow, what extremely rude and uncaring people there are in this forum. For sure I would never purchase a cat from people like you! If u had read my post u would see that I did not have access to the cat to test it due to the long distance between us. This comes back to what I said originally which is dont trust any breeder no matter how great the reputation, do your own research and demand multiple tests before fully paying. There is something called ethic s and should be used by breeders, not trickery. You breeders can all defend each other but remember karma people, one day it will come back to haunt you. Instead of staunchly supporting each other and bashing your customers why dont u be honest and helpful. My breeder blew me off when I brought up a concern, had she shown a little compassion to a new breeder we wouldn't be here talking about this today. The world is a small place today ladies with the net, and your businesses relies on word of mouth and good reputation , so if I were you (and im glad I am not) I would treat people better.


People clearly do care or they would not take the time to reply to you and point out the places you seem to have gone wrong, and ask for clarification on other points (very few of which you've addressed).

You're going to need to take a step back and look at these posts, and accept that there were things you did not research or know about breeding cats, there were a lot of things you missed, and a lot of mistakes on your part. Blaming the breeder at this point seems a rather moot point regardless of how they communicated with you. I mean, you bred from a cat who was sick, that in itself is pretty inexcusable no matter your level of knowledge.

Accepting your mistakes is the only way to learn from this experience and move forward - or you can keep maintaining it was someone else's job to warn you, do things for you, tell you the things you should have known before jumping in - and learn absolutely nothing.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

carly87 said:


> <snip>
> Did you ask the breeder whether her cats carried LH?
> Did you tell the breeder you didn't want LH specifically?
> <snip>


I don't think the OP was being especially naïve here. BSH - British SHORT hair. A friend was breeding BSH back in the late 1990s, colourpoints at that, and there was no mention to her or me of carrying longhair, neither did she get any LH kittens pop up.

They are not on the show bench at GCCF shows, there is no class in the schedules for them even as Assessment, there is very little about them on the Internet (at least the UK sites), and for whatever reason there seems to be no 'may carry longhair' overstamping, or something has gone awry with it.

Otherwise - yes. She was naïve.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> I don't think the OP was being especially naïve here. BSH - British SHORT hair. A friend was breeding BSH back in the late 1990s, colourpoints at that, and there was no mention to her or me of carrying longhair, neither did she get any LH kittens pop up.
> 
> *They are not on the show bench at GCCF shows*, there is no class in the schedules for them even as Assessment, there is very little about them on the Internet (at least the UK sites), and for whatever reason there seems to be no 'may carry longhair' overstamping, or something has gone awry with it.
> 
> Otherwise - yes. She was naïve.


That may change soon though.Infact you gave me this link OS. Re getting the LH's recognised http://www.nblscc.co.uk/index.html

The tests for the LH arnt new if everyone else has managed to research this and test for it then the op has no excuse imo.

It was sad to hear the op describe the LH kittens as problematic they didnt ask to be born into the hands of a inexperienced breeder.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

OrientalSlave said:


> I don't think the OP was being especially naïve here. BSH - British SHORT hair. A friend was breeding BSH back in the late 1990s, colourpoints at that, and there was no mention to her or me of carrying longhair, neither did she get any LH kittens pop up.
> 
> They are not on the show bench at GCCF shows, there is no class in the schedules for them even as Assessment, there is very little about them on the Internet (at least the UK sites), and for whatever reason there seems to be no 'may carry longhair' overstamping, or something has gone awry with it.
> 
> Otherwise - yes. She was naïve.


I find it very difficult to believe that anyone could not stumble upon information re BSH variants from just an hour's Googling, let alone months worth of research before purchasing kittens for breeding. I know the OP isn't in the UK but if you're buying from the UK then surely it's UK breed related information you'll be looking at? The British Shorthair Cat club, in a prominent place on their web site, has a small section dedicated to BSH variants; there are any number of breeder web sites dedicated to or picturing BSH variants; the BSH Breed Policy is available on-line.... really, there is heaps of information available.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Same thing could be said for exotics, but we don't see breeders popping up there to complain they've had an exotic long-hair. And BLH are shown with TICA. Baring in mind this lady's from abroad, she won't have necessarily been looking at GCCF, and should certainly have been studying TICA or equivalent to make sure the BSH she bought met the standards for showing organisations in her own country.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Just to add its not the breeder who is expected to pay for tests you want if you want them testing it is at your cost.

When i sold a breeding girl before the breeder wanted it testing for blood group,LH and chocolate,which i did at their cost.

You dont need access to the cat for it to be tested the breeder could have done it at your request.

You say ..'i wouldnt buy from a breeder like you!', the fact is i wouldnt sell a breeding girl to a breeder like you with zero knowledge.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> Just to add its not the breeder who is expected to pay for tests you want if you want them testing it is at your cost.
> 
> When i sold a breeding girl before the breeder wanted it testing for blood group,LH and chocolate,which i did at their cost.
> 
> ...


Hear, hear!

No knowledge, no desire to acquire any, no acceptance of own responsibilities.

I don't breed, but if I did, you wouldn't find me selling my kittens to someone like this either.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

annieksa said:


> Wow, what extremely rude and uncaring people there are in this forum. For sure I would never purchase a cat from people like you! If u had read my post u would see that I did not have access to the cat to test it due to the long distance between us. This comes back to what I said originally which is dont trust any breeder no matter how great the reputation, *do your own research and demand multiple tests *before fully paying. There is something called ethic s and should be used by breeders, not trickery. You breeders can all defend each other but remember karma people, one day it will come back to haunt you. Instead of staunchly supporting each other and bashing your customers why dont u be honest and helpful. My breeder blew me off when I brought up a concern, had she shown a little compassion to a new breeder we wouldn't be here talking about this today. The world is a small place today ladies with the net, and your businesses relies on word of mouth and good reputation , so if I were you (and im glad I am not) I would treat people better.


There you go you said it yourself..so why didnt you?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

havoc said:


> Not here they aren't. It simply isn't how things happen here in the UK, mainly because there isn't any need. Breeders do occasionally export cats to other breeders but I don't think I've ever heard of one doing so to a complete novice on the back of email contact.


There are many, many UK cats over here. So many breeders do export from the UK, up until recently it was the first choice for many breeders here due to the easier import requirements.
We could get kittens at 4 months rather than 10-11 months for other countries.

Of course breeders set up novices, happens every day! Not every breeder cares if a person has experience, look how many posters complain how hard it is to start or find stud service when much of that could be avoided by not just jumping in with an active girl.

I know breeders who've begun with UK imported stock, breeders who knew near nothing but learnt by showing their imports and meeting other breeders after the fact.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I suppose it depends what you mean by 'many'. How many BSH were imported into Australia for breeding from the UK in 2012? There were 5206 registered with the GCCF that year and I'm guessing it isn't exactly a huge percentage being shipped abroad.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> There are many, many UK cats over here. So many breeders do export from the UK, up until recently it was the first choice for many breeders here due to the easier import requirements.
> We could get kittens at 4 months rather than 10-11 months for other countries.
> 
> Of course breeders set up novices, happens every day! Not every breeder cares if a person has experience, look how many posters complain how hard it is to start or find stud service when much of that could be avoided by not just jumping in with an active girl.
> ...


If im honest i do feel the breeder should have asked the novice some basic questions regarding how much knowledge they have.

I know i wouldnt sell a breeding girl to someone with little knowledge and i would be there to mentor them 100%.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

All ways round it's a mess. I'd still like to know how many breeders the OP got in touch with and why they went with this breeder. I suspect it's because this is the only one who would sell to them.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

havoc said:


> All ways round it's a mess. I'd still like to know how many breeders the OP got in touch with and why they went with this breeder. I suspect it's because this is the only one who would sell to them.


Without a doubt.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

It amazes me whenever I read a post like this that any breeders export breeding cats to this type of person. 

There is a world of difference between selling to a novice who has done a huge amount of research and perhaps has kept the breed as pets for some time than selling to someone who clearly hasn't got a clue.


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

we love bsh's said:


> Down to preference obviously but i get excited when a LH pops up in a litter :001_tt1:


Ooh me too. I adore them!!


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

havoc said:


> I suspect it's because this is the only one who would sell to them.


Correct.....


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Sigh. This is now plastered all over Facebook.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

carly87 said:


> Sigh. This is now plastered all over Facebook.


by the op?


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## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

carly87 said:


> Sigh. This is now plastered all over Facebook.


Who has out it on Facebook ... Details Mrs lol x


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

The tension is killing me


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> by the op?


Yes. Seems she didn't get satisfaction on here so moved on ....


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

tincan said:


> The tension is killing me





Tigermoon said:


> Yes. Seems she didn't get satisfaction on here so moved on ....


would love a link via pm if not public


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If it's on FB I imagine it's public - except I can't find it!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> If it's on FB I imagine it's public - except I can't find it!


Me either


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

we love bsh's said:


> If im honest i do feel the breeder should have asked the novice some basic questions regarding how much knowledge they have.
> 
> I know i wouldnt sell a breeding girl to someone with little knowledge and i would be there to mentor them 100%.


I agree with you - I suspect that it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. OP was intending to set up in 'business' breeding BSH cats, (and had no scruples about breeding from a cat which was unwell) and has been sold breeding stock by someone who doesn't seem to have been very responsible herself. The biter bit, I think.

It's those poor 'useless' kittens I feel sorry for.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I've read the Facebook stuff. Oh boy, everyone is taking our OP at face value despite' Carly's valiant efforts which I think will only get her tarred with the same brush as the breeder.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> I've read the Facebook stuff. Oh boy, everyone is taking our OP at face value despite' Carly's valiant efforts which I think will only get her tarred with the same brush as the breeder.


I know i wish i could post on there but there a closed group n iv not been accepted i wonder why i reckon they have cottoned on.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am going to close this as I think any good advice is falling on deaf ears and the OP has clearly taken her 'problems' elsewhere.


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