# Feel like a murderer - what now?



## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

This is the post I never wanted to make so please if anyone needs to criticise do it gently. I'm beating myself up about this enough as it is, don't need anyone else to do it for me.

I've just killed my fish...

Over the last couple of months I set up my tank, as mentioned on the other threads I started. It's a 110 litre, with an internal power filter, heater etc.

Everything was fine and I added my first two fish - two small bistlenose plecs. Checked the water every day, saw the ammonia spike then drop, the nitrite spike then drop, etc as predicted. When it settled I added a siamese fighter. Same again, everything fine. A couple of weeks later I added 11 cardinal tetra. Everything was going fine - the filter seemed to be coping fine, water was testing fine for everything, the temperature had balanced out to around 25. I've been doing partial water changes (about 5-15 %) 2 or 3 times a week.

Then I went away for a week. Everything I read, various fishkeepers I've spoken to, and the people in the fish shop, all said the same thing - fish will do fine without food for up to a couple of weeks. The way I understood it using a feeder block or getting someone to feed them is risky in case of overfeeding and messing up the water quality.

So I did a couple of extra water changes before I went to get the nitrate levels right down, made sure everything was working, fed them immediately before I left and thought they would be ok.

Came home last night to a massacre - the bristlenose and tetra all dead, and for some time judging by the state of them (colourless, half disintegrating).

Dali (the fighter) was the only one still alive - when I first saw him I thought he was dead too (motionless at the top) then he started moving. He looks like he's been nipped a fair bit, but over the course of the alast 12 hours has perked up a bit and is at least acting fairly normally.

Obviously the first thing I did was check evrything - heater and filter still appear to be working, the temp is still reading at 25, and the water tested clear of both ammonia and nitrite (and chlorine obviously). Even nitrate levels were still low. 
I did a 10% change there and then and removed all the bodies, and I've done another 15% or so today. I've fed Dali a few times and he is eating fine and definitly looks better (no visible issues, other then nipped fins).

I'm just devastated. They had all been together about 3 weeks with no signs of anything being wrong and now this. I feel so guilty like I've murdered them all but I don't get why it happened.

If anyone has any ideas or advice that would be fab - I don't want to lose Dali too! I'm also really scared about getting any more fish in case it happens again. (Not that I would do so anyway until I'm certain everything is fine, but for future reference). Could it be that one was sick anyway or did I starve the poor things to death?


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm so sorry for your loss!! It's an awful thing to return home to. I know how you feel. I had a tank of cold water fish and one day my niece was over and she asked if she could feed them. I had already taught how much to put in and everything and I was distracted in the bathroom giving my Yorkie a bath and said that she could. She had been snacking on some dry crunchy nut cornflakes and she fed them those instead of fish food. I didn't know she had. The fish started dying one by one and I couldn't understand it. I had two shubunkins left (sun and jin) and took them out and put them into a different tank overnight as I guessed it was something in the water (infection or whatever) but they died too. Then she told me what she had done. So it turns out that fish have a nut allergy


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

If they had starved i would expect one at a time to die and as they did be eaten by the others


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Don't like asking this but could anyone have gotten into your property and did something to them? Either accidently or purposely?


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

Yes it does sound strange. I've left my fish for two weeks before with just a feeding block and they did fine.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Thanks folks. I don't think anyone has been in - nobody has keys that I know of (we had both sets with us) and I can't see my ex making a copy of them just to break in and kill my fish.

Its just odd and very very sad. Didn't realise I could get so attached to them. Fingers crossed Dali makes it now.

Welshyorkielover - that's awful :-(


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## kathyj (Aug 14, 2011)

How awful for you to come home to that. I keep tropical fish, and you do get attached to them. 

I have also heard that you can leave the tank for a couple of weeks, although I haven't been in a position to test tht theory. The longest I have been away is 10days, and I got a bit nervous about leaving them with no food, so bought the tetra holiday food block. It is not one of those white blocks - I have heard they really mess up the water - but rather, a kind of compacted jellified disk of food/nutrients which disolves slowly as the fish nibble at it. So far that has worked fine for my tank. I may lose maybe one fish while I am away, but I think it is more a coincidence rather than because I am away.

I have never kept a Siamese fighter, but wonder if maybe the fact that it is the only survivor,that perhaps it somehow set upon the other fish. I would have to do a bit of research on them. I know males will fight each other, hence only having one in the tank, but don't know if they would attack other breeds of fish.

Could you have had a powercut while you were away - may have caused a drop in temp, or toxins to build up temporarily. Just a thought.


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## kathyj (Aug 14, 2011)

Just done a quick bit of researching on-line, and there are definitely reports of some male fighters attacking other fish, especially colourful ones, mistaking them for other male fighters. Not every male will do this. They have different temperaments, just like people, so some are placid and some are more aggressive. Of course, I can't be certain this is what happened in your tank though.

How long had you had the siamese fighter before you went away?


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## toffee44 (Oct 21, 2011)

It is possible your betta went hungry and started attacking although I would think the tetras were too fast for him


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Unusual. At first I thought maybe something crashed but had corrected itself by the time you got back (electrical failure cutting out the filter) but you would expect to see a higher level of nitrate if that was the case. It won't be food so don't feel guilty about that- I have left fish for longer than that without any problems. 

It is interesting that your survivor is a fish that can breathe o2 from the air. 

Whatever it is - it has been environmental, it almost always is when you get a sudden mass death of everything. It has the hallmarks of poisoning but it is hard to see how when nothing has got to the tank? All very weird.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Opps forgot to say, if it was mine I would do huge water changes till it's fully fresh. If something damaging was in the water and it sounds likely as your fish has improved ... 10% leaves 90% of the bad stuff still there. I know people say you shouldn't for disturbing the denitrifying bacteria but I have done 100% water changes lots of times (not cleaning the filter out) over the years in emergencies in one go without it being a problem.


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## Amy-manycats (Jun 15, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your fish, are you sure your Ammonia was zero and you are doing the test right, when you got back? I ask because a number of decaying fish in the tank should have increased the Ammonia to quite a high level, then obviously you would see the corresponding Nitrite then Nitrate high. Do you check Ph? Did you add any new decor or any new fish just before leaving?

Last and it is unlikely, do you disturb the substrate whenever you do a water change? You should if you can to stop noxious gasses building up. It the build up then bubble through the water causing very unhappy fish. It seems unlikely in a tank that is fairly new though.

It will not be lack of food, if one dies the others would eat it and not die as they had food :001_huh:


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## Amy-manycats (Jun 15, 2009)

Also, I agree more big changes, should be fine, I too have done them many times and not had an issue.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Amy-manycats said:


> Sorry to hear about your fish, are you sure your Ammonia was zero and you are doing the test right, when you got back? I ask because a number of decaying fish in the tank should have increased the Ammonia to quite a high level, then obviously you would see the corresponding Nitrite then Nitrate high. *Do you check Ph*? Did you add any new decor or any new fish just before leaving?
> 
> Last and it is unlikely, do you disturb the substrate whenever you do a water change? You should if you can to stop noxious gasses building up. It the build up then bubble through the water causing very unhappy fish. It seems unlikely in a tank that is fairly new though.
> 
> It will not be lack of food, if one dies the others would eat it and not die as they had food :001_huh:


Good call. My own water has absolutely zero kH and gH and I have to buffer it or the pH will crash in no time at all.

I was also thinking about the testing, even if the filter was coping with the big waste increase from the deads you would see it reflected in your nitrate level- are you using drop tests or the dipstick type tests?


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I spoke to one of the guys in the aquatics centre and he also assured me the fish would not have starved in just 5 days (they had clearly been dead at least a couple of days when I got back) and that even if some had, the catfish certainly would have eaten them.

He thought it sounds like something crashed early in the week which messed up the water - particularly as the survivior was the betta who can surface breathe - but corrected itself by the time I returned; maybe a power cut or something.

I'm only using dipstick tests which I know are not the most accurate but they've been working fine until now (as in, they did register rises and falls in ammonia / nitrite / nitrate as I added the various fish so I know they work). The nitrate had increased from virtually nothing when I left to the first level of "needs water change" when I returned so it had increased - not sure if this is the expected amount obviously.

I can't be 100% certain of anything but I would put money on Dali NOT attacking my other fish. None were species that could be mistaken for another male betta, and the whole lot had been together for about 3 weeks (the catfish longer) with no issues. He's so placid I really doubt he would so much as give the others a dirty look.

For the time being I'm just keeping up with the daily partial water changes and testing. I'm not planning on adding any more fish until I'm certain its all new water in there just in case.

Forgot to add - my pH is still reading the same (can't remember what the figure is but fairly high).


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

It makes me wonder if there was anything in the water that you used to perform your water changes before you went away. Before I had an RO unit I used to filter my water through a polyfilter for 48 hours before I used it
Polyfilter


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

Ok, so I've been doing a lot of water changes (10-20% daily) and testing the water every couple of days. 
I'm now noticing a consistently high level of nitrates this week, with todays being the highest (about 100mg/l according to the dipstick) despite the fact I did my biggest water change last night. 

Just tested a glass of plain old tap water and got the same reading so I'm assuming this is the cause of this particular problem. I'm wondering if it could also be the reason for the deaths as I did extra water changes before going away?

Any ideas what's the best way to deal with this? Would it be worth me buying in RO water for water changes? Or would I be ok just addig some live plants to use up the nitrates (only have plastic ones currently)? 

Hawksport - how does the polyfilter work exactly (physically I mean - what do you do with it?) Would this remove nitrates? Being stuck in flat with two cats leaving a bucket of water around for 2 days would be a disaster waiting to happen!


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## Amy-manycats (Jun 15, 2009)

Not sure of the truths in this, but I was told most water treatments are put in to the mains supply at the weekend, not sure if this might be the reason behind the hight Nitrates. I also thought the UK legal maximum for water was 50 ppm


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## kathyj (Aug 14, 2011)

I normally buy RO water, as it isn't too expensive and I only have a 55 litre tank. It may be worth you buying it until things settle down. I also get the occasional water test done at my aquarium shop - they may be able to advise you on what might be going wrong and what to add to the water to get back to the ideal balance. My local shop will test the common 6 levels, again not expensive.

Good luck.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

I agree with what has already been said about your test readings. It's really strange not see any ammonia or nitrite reading in a tank that has suffered such a catastrophic loss.

I would get rid of the strip tests as soon as possible and get some proper tests. The strips are notoriously bad. I've had some in the past hoping that they would be a quick win solution to normal tests but when I compared the results with other tests they were rubbish.

Also, might be an idea to check with your electricity company, or your neighbours to see if there were any power outages while you were away.


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