# Kids



## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

When did you decide that you did/didn't want kids?

I have truly decided that I will never ever ever ever be having children. People tell me I will change my mind, but I'm definitely sure!


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I decided I definitely never ever ever ever wanted children from quite a young age. I had my first child at 21 and a second at 23. I think that's why people think you may change your mind because sometimes they have been there said that. It's perfectly fine to decide you don't want kids. whatever's best for you


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

I had my first at 17 , it wasn't that I had always wanted kids it was that I had found someone I wanted to have kids with . best decision I ever made  weve been together 8 years and have two beautiful children , I cant imagine what i'd be doing now if I hadn't had children...


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

I just cannot understand why people would want to have children. How are you supposed to have a job and take kids to school?


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## fierceabby (May 16, 2011)

I just find it incredibly rude and insensitive that people think it's okay to keep going on about kids - not you, I mean, since I got married and we bought our own house there are a couple of people in particular who EVERY single time I see them the _first_ thing they say is ' Anything to tell us?/You expecting yet/when are you due/Aldi have all the baby items in/mothercare has a sale on' etc etc. It's really annoying.

It really winds me up because we haven't started trying for kids yet, so I don't know if I can even conceive - so it makes me think what if I can't, and how bloody upsetting it must be for people who can't and they get bombarded with that kind of thing. I also watch Keeping up with the Kardashians and watching poor Khloe being unable to conceive and being quizzed and scrutinized about it all the time. Why do people think they have a right to be so bloody personal?!?!??!

Sorry rant over!! I honestly think it's one of those things people should keep there own counsel about - whether they are asking you if/when/why/why not etc


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

I wasn't sure until I got to about 26ish and then I realised I really did want children. We have two, they are fantastic, the centre of our world, wouldn't be without them and all that jazz. BUT, nothing annoys me more* than people assuming that a couple without children are having fertility problems  Not everyone wants children and I respect that - there are other things in life and just because my life choices include being thrown up on, begging small people to eat broccoli and balking at the the price of tiny shoes - it doesn't mean that they are anyone else's. 

We have plenty of friends without children, they are not child haters they just decided not to have their own. I think people need to be a bit less judgemental on that front and STOP asking newlyweds when they are going to start a family .

*Not strictly true, Justin Bieber annoys me more than that...


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

CharleyRogan said:


> I just cannot understand why people would want to have children. How are you supposed to have a job and take kids to school?


Is that not the same as thinking 'why would anyone NOT want to have children?'

I have a job and take my children to school/pre school. Sometimes I actually manage to do it without swearing and looking quite nice


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## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

CharleyRogan said:


> I just cannot understand why people would want to have children. How are you supposed to have a job and take kids to school?


It's all part of being super mum lol. No only joking. Lots of mums do work but its hard work. I'm a stay at home mum now but I did work when my son was a toddler but I could only do this because I had a great support network through my parents.

I think if you want kids you find a way of making the big things work round them but there is nothing wrong with not adding to the population. It's just your choice.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

From about 18 I kinda made the decision that I don't want them. I don't like children, I can't even stand the younger children in my family and I'd go so far as to say I hate my niece who is only 4.

People always say I'll change my mind. I'm not even sure I can have children due to some accidents that never amounted to anything when I was younger. I don't belief in IVF as having kids is not a right. And I would consider adoption though if I were to change my mind slightly.

I hate the fact people expect women wanting to be mothers. I don't want to put my body through that. I also hate the people that show loads of pictures and videos of their kids. Its just like all the other "miracles" out there I really don't care.

My pets are my kids and they're irreplaceable.


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## francesandjon (Jun 3, 2009)

fierceabby said:


> I just find it incredibly rude and insensitive that people think it's okay to keep going on about kids - not you, I mean, since I got married and we bought our own house there are a couple of people in particular who EVERY single time I see them the _first_ thing they say is ' Anything to tell us?/You expecting yet/when are you due/Aldi have all the baby items in/mothercare has a sale on' etc etc. It's really annoying.


Ditto!!

We had our 4th anniversary yesterday so some people have been on about it for ages!
Some of the family know we are trying now, and some very close friends know the absolute heartbreak we've been through a couple of months ago......but as far am I'm concerned, it's our business to tell who we want what we want....not for others to keep pestering us!

As for the question of when did I know that I wanted kids.....don't know, it was just my idea of how things would go....meet someone, buy a house, get married, have children.

As for not understanding why people would want to have children....that's up to you. Of course you can have a job and take the kids to school!
A very close friend of mine works a full time job, which is shift work, and is a single mum to one of the politest 5 yr olds you will ever meet. Yes, she relies a lot on a child-minder, but for her (and many others I assume) having a job and a child are both very important things - although she would leave work in a heartbeat if it wasn't working out with her child.


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

CharleyRogan said:


> I just cannot understand why people would want to have children. How are you supposed to have a job and take kids to school?


I don't have a job at the moment(my partner is the main earner) , and my kids are home educated  I would like a career (hopefully with dogs) but that can wait for now I want to enjoy watching my kids grow up first


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## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

I never have wanted children - im 26 now and I don't think I ever will want any.

I don't dislike them - I do spend time with friends and family that have children/babies (lovely happy little things) I don't mind that - I play with them / take them to the park / feed them etc but give them back at the end of the day!

I see them as a burden - the thought of having a child with you 24-7 makes me shudder. My life would be halted and I wouldn't be able to do all the things I do now - you only live once and the last thing I would want is to be trapped by children. 

Yes I may sound selfish but each to their own.

Our mums dont help - "oh you will want them one day - they are the best days of your life" blah blah.... My OH has the same views as me about kids (luckily!)

Plus - I wouldn't want to bring kids up in the world as it is.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I decided I didn't want them since always- I changed my mind when I accidentally became pregnant. Everything biological kicks into gear, including your mind. When broodiness begins you cannot control it. 
That pregnancy didn't work out sadly but my body for *months* after was crying out desperately to get pregnant again. You don't have to be some mother earth, generic baby worshipper to want to be a mum. I know plenty who have never been huge fans of other people's children but are wonderful mothers to their own. 

Now it's settled again and the idea of children doesn't fill me with glee right this second- but I know it is what I want out of life ultimately and sooner rather than later. And I'd like three


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> I just cannot understand why people would want to have children. How are you supposed to have a job and take kids to school?


haha, I have always wanted kids but also been very career minded too, so always planned for them to go to nursery. I never wanted to stay at home with kids.

My daughter is now 5 months old and I go back to work in two weeks, because we are not coping on my maternity and hubby's pay. I never thought I would say this, never, but if we could afford for me not to work and stay at home with the baby (even have another) I would. In a heartbeat. Its by far the most rewarding thing I have done.

But I always wanted kids and on the other side, I can't understand why someone wouldn't want kids. We are all different.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

As a man I can't really comment on the female side of things but to say my wife and I decided to have children together before we tied the knot. It's a case where if one of us did want children and the other didn't it could have caused problems. Unfortunately we have only one.

Why the middle class aren't breeding any more: It's a profound social shift no one talks about - but it could transform the face of Britain | Mail Online may be an interesting article to bring up though.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I dont think i ever made the decision not to.... I just never have. Iv never got to the point where I had sat down and said "do I want kids?"

I am 28, and still have 0 desire for kids. The OH is the same. If i end up having them by mistake, fine, but with a choice, I cant see it happening.

I get sick of people telling me I will one day - or asking when I will.
My mums a nightmare for it, even worse when BOTH are mums are in the room! They wont listen to reason!


We are in his mums bad books atm as we had to sit her down and sternly tell her to stop nagging us as we are highly unlikely to marry, and we are even less likely to be planning on kids


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## Velcro (May 20, 2013)

ive got a child already, never really wanted kids, and I certainly don't want anymore. I always knew kids were never really up there on my list of things I feel compelled to do. People seem to think I will want more, and that il change my mind as she gets older. And I have them wittering down my ear about it. the only people that know I mean it are the people that really know me, my mum and a couple of my closest friends and now, much to his dismay, the fiancé. 

I don't think it makes me a bad person, I just think having the one I did have just reaffirmed Im not maternal in the slightest lol. I can't imagine anything worse than screaming babies, nappies, toddlers you can't take your eyes off for 5 seconds....


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

Does childminder/nursery just negate working because of the prices of childcare? 

I live with 4 kids now, and they are such hard work, all the fighting, tantrums, rudeness, the school runs, and I honestly find it hard and I play the role of stay at home mum and tidy up after them, cook their tea, help with homework, and I honestly do not understand how people go to work, and then go home to look after kids, its knackering without having to go to work. I don't know if it because I'm not mum, and I don't feel as much attachment to them.


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## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

CharleyRogan said:


> Does childminder/nursery just negate working because of the prices of childcare?
> 
> I live with 4 kids now, and they are such hard work, all the fighting, tantrums, rudeness, the school runs, and I honestly find it hard and I play the role of stay at home mum and tidy up after them, cook their tea, help with homework, and I honestly do not understand how people go to work, and then go home to look after kids, its knackering without having to go to work. I don't know if it because I'm not mum, and I don't feel as much attachment to them.


I think you've hit the nail on the head there  I wouldn't do what I do for someone else's kids , but your own kids are a different thing all together and yes its hard work but its also really rewarding


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

I think also, because babies scare me.... they can't tell me what they want, or why they are crying, and thought of being stuck with a child scares me to no end!! If I found out I was pregnant now, I would probably have a nervous breakdown! I like cats instead.... I'm going to be a crazy cat lady!

If kids came around the age of 13/14 that would be great... I seem to get on great with that age and up!


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> Does childminder/nursery just negate working because of the prices of childcare?
> 
> I live with 4 kids now, and they are such hard work, all the fighting, tantrums, rudeness, the school runs, and I honestly find it hard and I play the role of stay at home mum and tidy up after them, cook their tea, help with homework, and I honestly do not understand how people go to work, and then go home to look after kids, its knackering without having to go to work. I don't know if it because I'm not mum, and I don't feel as much attachment to them.


If you feel this way it begs the question why you are working as an au pair (I assume) in the first place???

and it depends on your salary, but yes sometimes childcare costs more than your salary, at which point most people don't work.


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## fierceabby (May 16, 2011)

Also, my sister gets really p'eed off as she has a little girl aged 2 years and boy 9months old - and people keep telling her 'Oooh you can stop now, you've got one of each!!'.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Lol! I think it's other people's children that put you off. I believe with your own it's different. We have no children, but there never was any conscious decision. Neither of us got broody - ever. We were assured we would, but no, and we still don't regret it. The only good reason for having children that I was given was "you will be lonely when you get old" (my sister ). But my mother had 5 children and she is also lonely. So......


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

CharleyRogan said:


> Does childminder/nursery just negate working because of the prices of childcare?
> 
> I live with 4 kids now, and they are such hard work, all the fighting, tantrums, rudeness, the school runs, and I honestly find it hard and I play the role of stay at home mum and tidy up after them, cook their tea, help with homework, and I honestly do not understand how people go to work, and then go home to look after kids, its knackering without having to go to work. I don't know if it because I'm not mum, and I don't feel as much attachment to them.


Your own are different 

As a youngster I wanted loads and my sister wanted none - I had one, she had six! Life has a way of making decisions for you


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

WelshOneEmma said:


> If you feel this way it begs the question why you are working as an au pair (I assume) in the first place???
> 
> and it depends on your salary, but yes sometimes childcare costs more than your salary, at which point most people don't work.


I thought I would be fine, as I get on great with my younger brother who is nearly 6. I used to like kids, and thought about having some, someday but this experience has changed my views completely. I didn't take into account that the kids wouldn't listen to me, or act so spoilt and scream and shout at me. The school is private, and didn't take into account that I would feel so out of place because of me being working class and just totally not fitting into the whole private school scenario.


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## Velcro (May 20, 2013)

when i was pregnant with mine, my friend was pregnant at the same time, shes on her 3rd now (due in a few weeks) i just couldn't imagine anything worse hahahaha.

i think some people are just meant to have loads of kids.... others, like me, should stick to cats.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

I was NEVER going to have children....I had firmly made my mind up......


Then a stomach bug and a failed pill and we found ourselves pregnant! Suddenly everything changed, literally the minute the 2nd line appeared on the test. I couldnt imagine anything more magical and wanted to do whatever I could to protect the precious little being inside of me. Thankfully hubby felt exactly the same! I now have 2 beautiful sons and couldnt be happier about changing my mind.

I'm very much pro-choice though (although I would prefer they lowered the gestational age for social terminations - not talking about medical/rape etc here), and think having children or not is a very personal decision that should not involve anyone but the potential parents.


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

WelshOneEmma said:


> If you feel this way it begs the question why you are working as an au pair (I assume) in the first place???
> 
> and it depends on your salary, but yes sometimes childcare costs more than your salary, at which point most people don't work.


My sons teacher has mentioned she has no children and never will. Obviously I dont know the reasons behind it, but that doesnt make her a bad teacher - in fact she is one of the best we have met!


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

JAChihuahua said:


> My sons teacher has mentioned she has no children and never will. Obviously I dont know the reasons behind it, but that doesnt make her a bad teacher - in fact she is one of the best we have met!


I never said not having kids would make you a bad teacher, but to take on a job as an au pair to 4 children (halfway across the world on your own) when she can't stand them to me, as a mother, is a little worrying.

That is not what I would be happy with. If I had employed an au pair and found out she felt like that she would be fired on the spot. Yes I wouldnt expect them to love my kids as I would, but I would at least expect them to enjoy the majority of the job.

Obviously Charley miscalculated the job she took on as other peoples kids are harder than your own, especially if they are not the most disciplined!


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I never said not having kids would make you a bad teacher, but to take on a job as an au pair to 4 children (halfway across the world on your own) when she can't stand them to me, as a mother, is a little worrying.
> 
> That is not what I would be happy with. If I had employed an au pair and found out she felt like that she would be fired on the spot. Yes I wouldnt expect them to love my kids as I would, but I would at least expect them to enjoy the majority of the job.
> 
> Obviously Charley miscalculated the job she took on as other peoples kids are harder than your own, especially if they are not the most disciplined!


My sister in law is a Teachers assistant and also runs youth groups and occassionally babysits. She doesnt want her own, she just is interested in child development and education, She is very passionate about her job and likes knowing that she is helping put these kids onto a good path in life. She does say its very hard, and frustrating at times, but seems to enjoy her job.

However, she likes having the freedom of not having kids and being able to do her own thing


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## lifeizsweet (Jun 7, 2009)

I've known for pretty much ever. I just have no interest in children. With my ex it was a major issue as he really wants a family and I just don't. 

My boyfriend now is in agreement with me, that's not to say in the future we may change our minds, but realistically I just don't see myself with kids. 

I have a god child who was born about 2 months ago, and he's not made me maternal in anyway. 

I see having a kid as throwing away my life, so probably best not to have one!!


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

lifeizsweet said:


> I've known for pretty much ever. I just have no interest in children. With my ex it was a major issue as he really wants a family and I just don't.
> 
> My boyfriend now is in agreement with me, that's not to say in the future we may change our minds, but realistically I just don't see myself with kids.
> 
> ...


haha this is exactly how I feel about it all!

His best mate has a kid, and everytime we see him I think it actually makes us want kids even LESS if thats even possible


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

I have only been with kids who are really well behaved, and it feels like an uphill battle all the time. I thought they would be better behaved than this. 

How do people cope with no sleep?


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

grumpy goby said:


> My sister in law is a Teachers assistant and also runs youth groups and occassionally babysits. She doesnt want her own, she just is interested in child development and education, She is very passionate about her job and likes knowing that she is helping put these kids onto a good path in life. She does say its very hard, and frustrating at times, but seems to enjoy her job.
> 
> However, she likes having the freedom of not having kids and being able to do her own thing


Hey why am I suddenly being singled out as a bad person here? NO WHERE did I say you have to have kids to be good with them. Do you not think though that if you take on a job that deals with kids you should at least like them???? You dont have to want kids to like them.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

WelshOneEmma said:


> Hey why am I suddenly being singled out as a bad person here? NO WHERE did I say you have to have kids to be good with them. Do you not think though that if you take on a job that deals with kids you should at least like them???? You dont have to want kids to like them.


I didnt single you out as a bad person? I was just saying plenty of people work with kids without being maternal. You are also allowed to be annoyed and irritated by them (everyone can admit that other peoples kids are annoying  ). I work with engineers (Basically large, Hairy children) who annoy and irritate me daily, I dont hate them though.

However, if you feel i have said your a bad person I apologise... I cant see where I did though..or even insinuated it


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> I have only been with kids who are really well behaved, and it feels like an uphill battle all the time. I thought they would be better behaved than this.
> 
> How do people cope with no sleep?


This is the problem with having other peoples kids. They may not be behaved how you like. I love looking after my niece, she's very quiet and easy going. My nephew is a bit more of a pain in the butt (same parents). I think you need to be very easy going with other peoples kids as you can't discipline them as you would your own.

And you learn to cope with no sleep! At least with the baby, in the first months, I would sleep when she sleeps, but its hard when you have a house to look after as well.

Being an au pair is hard work!


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

grumpy goby said:


> I didnt single you out as a bad person? I was just saying plenty of people work with kids without being maternal.


I never said you had to be maternal to work with kids, just that you should at least like them to work with them.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

grumpy goby said:


> I didnt single you out as a bad person? I was just saying plenty of people work with kids without being maternal.


Very true and in your example it cited and interest in their development etc, but to actively say they don't like the children then might be a wrong career choice.

Charley can I ask how old you are? If I take a wild guess at say 20 - how many 20 year olds move to the other side of the world away from family and friends, suddenly have 4 children to look after and not feel overwhelmed and out of depth even if they were their own kids


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

CharleyRogan said:


> I have only been with kids who are really well behaved, and it feels like an uphill battle all the time. I thought they would be better behaved than this.
> 
> How do people cope with no sleep?


From what I can gather..... Adreneline. I think "parental love" overides the need for sleep.


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## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

CharleyRogan said:


> I have only been with kids who are really well behaved, and it feels like an uphill battle all the time. I thought they would be better behaved than this.
> 
> How do people cope with no sleep?


I'm probably nieve here but do the parents not take over in the evenings when home from work? Surely it's the parents job to get up in the night with them?


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> Very true and in your example it cited and interest in their development etc, but to actively say they don't like the children then might be a wrong career choice.
> 
> Charley can I ask how old you are? If I take a wild guess at say 20 - how many 20 year olds move to the other side of the world away from family and friends, suddenly have 4 children to look after and not feel overwhelmed and out of depth even if they were their own kids


I think if all your experiance is with good well behaved kids, you probably dont realise that you could dislike kids until your in that position. At the time, and even in the future with a different family, it may feel like a great choice... but i know au pairs who have said that some families have been totally horrific experiances when they have worked perfectly happily with others


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## lifeizsweet (Jun 7, 2009)

grumpy goby said:


> haha this is exactly how I feel about it all!
> 
> His best mate has a kid, and everytime we see him I think it actually makes us want kids even LESS if thats even possible


haha me too! I just don't see the appeal! but my friend loves being a mum, it suits her, I don't think I'd cope!


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Very true and in your example it cited and interest in their development etc, but to actively say they don't like the children then might be a wrong career choice.
> 
> Charley can I ask how old you are? If I take a wild guess at say 20 - how many 20 year olds move to the other side of the world away from family and friends, suddenly have 4 children to look after and not feel overwhelmed and out of depth even if they were their own kids


I'm 23! I did like kids before I came here! I didn't dislike them, then get a job with children, and then have gone, I still don't like them! I thought this would be a great experience. I wanted to be a primary school teacher, but after volunteering at their primary school, I really don't want to do that, so i need to see what I really want to do with my life. Its better I found out now, rather than train and then realise its not right for me.

They don't have the same manners, things are done differently, and going from 0 to 4 kids is very difficult! They band together when one is being told off so I am fighting with 4 kids rather than the 1 that I am disciplining. Mum backs me up, but I don't think she particularly likes me. They don't clean up after themselves, and I bought them sweets today and not even a thankyou.


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

SandyR said:


> I'm probably nieve here but do the parents not take over in the evenings when home from work? Surely it's the parents job to get up in the night with them?


Oh yeah, they get up in the night, I can't hear them from my bedroom.

I just meant for babies regarding sleep, how do you not panic when they cry, how do you know what they want or whether they are just bored? They look so fragile that they would just snap. They scare me to no end!!!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

CharleyRogan said:


> I'm 23! I did like kids before I came here! I didn't dislike them, then get a job with children, and then have gone, I still don't like them! I thought this would be a great experience. I wanted to be a primary school teacher, but after volunteering at their primary school, I really don't want to do that, so i need to see what I really want to do with my life. Its better I found out now, rather than train and then realise its not right for me.
> 
> They don't have the same manners, things are done differently, and going from 0 to 4 kids is very difficult! They band together when one is being told off so I am fighting with 4 kids rather than the 1 that I am disciplining. Mum backs me up, but I don't think she particularly likes me. They don't clean up after themselves, and I bought them sweets today and not even a thankyou.


You are right its better to find out the way you have done. My mum did it the other way round, was a nursery nurse, then general nurse she adored being on childrens ward she loved the tots and babies. Never clicked on its much harder work when its not your job and you can walk away at the end of the day!! Not saying she hated us or wasn't a good mum but think she found me & brother (14 months apart) rather trying


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## JAChihuahua (Nov 23, 2012)

Sorry welsh I wasnt having a go at you... I just wanted to point out that you dont have to have kids to be good at working with them.

I have to admit, I dont really like other peoples kids... one or two yes... others nah!


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I didn't particularly want kids at your age, but met hubby and he knew he did want kids and I loved him too much to deny him. And actually once we began to talk about it after we were married I longed for them. The hormones just take over and the immense feeling of love that you pour into this new little soul is incredible. I have three all very much wanted and loved. Those who knew me at school couldn't believe it, I'd never wanted children (and I'm a primary school teacher) - I liked children just didn't want my own. I couldn't imagine my life being complete without them now. 

My kids now say sometimes they don't want children and that's fine - whatever they want is fine - they may change their minds or they may not - as long as they are happy that's all that matters. But I also let them know it's okay a) not to like other people's children; your own are different and b) to change their minds or not, and not be judged. I was 27 when I had my first.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm indifferent. I don't really like other peoples children but I tolerate them. I don't find babies or children to be 'cute' and I have to fake that I'm interested if I get one thrust in front of me, or even worse if people are showing pictures of a child. That is even more difficult to try and fake interest in. Stories of other peoples children also bore me senseless, but again I fake that I am interested just to be polite. Yet people can talk about their dogs or other animals and I'm genuinely interested, engaging, etc. Thrust a dog or puppy in front of me and I'm over the moon.

I have a lot of younger cousins that I honestly find irritating as they are awful attention seekers. 

But, there are 10 years between me and my youngest sister. I absolutely doted on her as a baby and because I was that much older than her, was fully involved with looking after her. I'm sure that if I had my own I would feel the same way as I did with her, in which case the answer would be never say never.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

I dont like kids!  

I have three which i love with all my heart but other peoples kids i cant bloody stand! 

You are right about being ganged up on and having to fight with all of them when they start...cleaver little things kids..like dogs they can smell your weakness!


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

Give me animals, or talk to me about animals, then I'm really interested. I loved being in Melbourne with Ozrex because we had so much in common, and I am going to see her in October before I leave to go home.

I thought I wanted to work with kids, because development fascinates me, how people learn, milestones, social interaction, the psychology of it, but having children is a 24/7 thing. Your life is never the same again!

Pretty sure kids smell fear and go for the kill hahaha!


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

When I was your age I expected I would have at least one or two. But I became focused on my career and never found the right person to settle down and have a family with. 

As mentioned, things usually work out the way they were intended. The older I got, the more I realized I didn't want children. I can honestly say there are absolutely no regrets that I didn't have them.


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## Patterdale_lover (Sep 25, 2008)

May I ask a question? How do people on low incomes afford babies? I mean I know a lot of girls my age who have got pregnant recently and are on less than 1k a month. How will they manage?


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> I just cannot understand why people would want to have children. How are you supposed to have a job and take kids to school?


I manage, I work full time, I have two kids, and I am studying towards a degree. I fit it all in, its fine. I most admit I am quite tired at times but its worth it. Kids like horses too so we spend all weekend riding too.


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

I dont like kids in general, the only one who I actually do is my little sister and OH's nephews but they are family. I am not amazing with them in the slightest but I would much rather spend time with them than other kids. I dont go gooey over babies and kids but show me a cat and I am all over it. 

However, I do want a couple of kids in the future, I am certain I will still not be thrilled with other kids but that's fine, it is my own that matter. 

I decided I wanted kids when my sister was born at 23, I am now 27, a wedding and a house purchase around the corner and in a couple of years time we can start thinking about kids.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

Patterdale_lover said:


> May I ask a question? How do people on low incomes afford babies? I mean I know a lot of girls my age who have got pregnant recently and are on less than 1k a month. How will they manage?


"baby brings bread in his arms" or so they say in Spain...
but it is freewheeling, hands-me-down and sales...
I fond the nappies the biggest expense..but one can go green and use re-usable - home made ones..and put up with leaks

I did not want kids..till about 27..my career was everything...till I met my OH...and who cares about career???:thumbup1:


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

ClaireLouise said:


> I manage, I work full time, I have two kids, and I am studying towards a degree. I fit it all in, its fine. I most admit I am quite tired at times but its worth it. Kids like horses too so we spend all weekend riding too.


How do you have the time? I struggled with a degree being childless!!! There isn't enough hours in the day to get everything done.

I honestly don't know how teen/young mums afford it. I was struggling with a flat and a car and bills without having to pay for nappies, and don't know how it would have been remotely possible to pay for myself + a child. From what I hear they are very expensive to bring up until the age of 18! Pregnancy also scares me.... the baby has to come out somehow and neither way is pretty or unpainful! I'm a total wimp where pain is concerned!!

Hats off to all you mums, honestly don't know how you do it!


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## missmaisie (May 10, 2013)

I've always wanted a family of my own, for as long as I can remember, but my word I cannot stand other people's children!

I have 11 younger cousins, all from my mom's 5 siblings, and the oldest is 9 years younger than me. I remember seeing them all being born and watching them all turn into the annoying little buggers they are! Don't get me wrong, I love them because they're my family, but I don't want to babysit!

The biggest fear I have about kids isn't the having them, it's the being able to conceive bit. Thanks to the anonymity of the internet, I'm able to admit that I don't know if I can conceive. Past experience leads me to believe I cannot, and I am absolutely terrified of getting tested and being proven to be right. So the OH and I have decided that, come hell or high water, we will have our own family, even if we have to adopt kids from China or somewhere on the African continent, we'll blimmin' well do it!!


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

CharleyRogan said:


> How do you have the time? I struggled with a degree being childless!!! There isn't enough hours in the day to get everything done.
> 
> I honestly don't know how teen/young mums afford it. I was struggling with a flat and a car and bills without having to pay for nappies, and don't know how it would have been remotely possible to pay for myself + a child. From what I hear they are very expensive to bring up until the age of 18! Pregnancy also scares me.... the baby has to come out somehow and neither way is pretty or unpainful! I'm a total wimp where pain is concerned!!
> 
> Hats off to all you mums, honestly don't know how you do it!


nature does it.. and if it was that bad no-one will have another kid...ther are good sides to pregnancy too...you are curvier..and warmer..you have company...
labour takes about a day...and there are ways to cope...


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> How do you have the time? I struggled with a degree being childless!!! *There isn't enough hours in the day to get everything done.
> *
> !


There are enough hours in the day, i am just really careful with my time. My kids get the most of it when I am not at work and when they sleep I study. Its fine we manage, my house is not always tidy, I would say its clean but messy as thats not a priority. I dont often just sit and watch TV I am usually doing something until I go to bed.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> How do you have the time? I struggled with a degree being childless!!! There isn't enough hours in the day to get everything done.
> 
> I honestly don't know how teen/young mums afford it. I was struggling with a flat and a car and bills without having to pay for nappies, and don't know how it would have been remotely possible to pay for myself + a child. From what I hear they are very expensive to bring up until the age of 18! Pregnancy also scares me.... the baby has to come out somehow and neither way is pretty or unpainful! I'm a total wimp where pain is concerned!!
> 
> Hats off to all you mums, honestly don't know how you do it!


in all honesty, a lot of items you have these days are luxuries, not necessities. Nappies, clothes and food are obviously the main ones after bills, but you don't need mobiles, sky tv, internet etc and I would go as far as to say a car would be seen as a luxury too. Too many people class these items as necessity and they aren't.

you get child benefit, plus if you are under 18 and pregnant get free vitamins etc and when the baby is born I think you get vouchers for some things as well. So many people buy things second hand as well. We were given a load of stuff from my sister but I know people who buy a lot from ebay.

Plus the recent news story about a blog (a girl called jack) shows you can eat a home-cooked healthy meal that doesn't cost the earth.

We had money saved and have pretty much used it all on my maternity, which sucks. But we have a lot of luxuries. I would love to not work and stay at home, maybe have another baby in a few years, but thats just not possible financially.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

We have four children. Two are grown up, with jobs. My other two are still at primary school. We also foster a couple of children.

Our first two children we had in our early teens. We got married at 21. We both studied and got degrees whilst working to support our children. 

I now work very part time hours so that I can take and collect my children from school and spend the school holidays with them.

Having children is the best thing ever, the love for my children is like no other...there is no deeper joy or emotion when I look at my beautiful children and think how lucky I am!!

However having children is no walk in the park and I also respect people's choice not to have them!


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## Velcro (May 20, 2013)

labradrk said:


> I'm indifferent. I don't really like other peoples children but I tolerate them. I don't find babies or children to be 'cute' and I have to fake that I'm interested if I get one thrust in front of me, or even worse if people are showing pictures of a child. That is even more difficult to try and fake interest in. Stories of other peoples children also bore me senseless, but again I fake that I am interested just to be polite. Yet people can talk about their dogs or other animals and I'm genuinely interested, engaging, etc. Thrust a dog or puppy in front of me and I'm over the moon.
> .


Hahahah Im exactly the same, I struggle when a child tries to talk to me as well, I never know what to do, say or how I'm supposed to act, despite having my own lol xD

Being expected to gush over baby pics is the WORST. I'm that person that will laugh my head off at lolcats but the second I see a picture of a baby doing something 'cute' Im like eh *stoneyfaced*, all babies do that. BRING ME THE LOLCATS.

The boyf reckons I have a heart of stone. I just prefer my babies to have fur


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

playing devil's advocate here - is it not an evolutionary thing to want to protect children though? (when I say protect I mean be around and be happy about the childcare aspect). So many species do this, yet some people seem quite active in their dislike for kids. I have animals and I love them, but they are different to children. I just wonder what is happening to us as a species.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I just wonder what is happening to us as a species.


Me also playing devils advocate here. With over 7 billion people packed into an already overcrowded box, maybe it's nature's way of controlling the population?


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Toby Tyler said:


> Me also playing devils advocate here. With over 7 billion people packed into an already overcrowded box, maybe it's nature's way of controlling the population?


but wouldn't natures way be for over population to die out due to lack of resources, not lack of care for the younger of the species?


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

WelshOneEmma said:


> playing devil's advocate here - is it not an evolutionary thing to want to protect children though? (when I say protect I mean be around and be happy about the childcare aspect). So many species do this, yet some people seem quite active in their dislike for kids. I have animals and I love them, but they are different to children. I just wonder what is happening to us as a species.


I have to be honest when someone says they "hate children" I instinctively feel very uneasy and question their character.... I think it's fine to not want children yourself (obviously! We aren't in the dark ages) and to not be a very maternal person (I am not particularly myself) but to actually hate a vulnerable, innocent, dependent child (or any person or creature like this) is not right IMO and I cannot understand this mindset at all.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

jenniferx said:


> I have to be honest when someone says they "hate children" I instinctively feel very uneasy and question their character.... I think it's fine to not want children yourself (obviously! We aren't in the dark ages) and to not be a very maternal person (I am not particularly myself) but to actually hate a vulnerable, innocent, dependent child (or any person or creature like this) is not right IMO and I cannot understand this mindset at all.


this is my feeling. admittedly i have always wanted children so don't understand people not wanting them. Even when I wasn't ready for them i was still polite to people who spoke about their kids and to say you prefer animals to kids does baffle me a bit. Kids are like animals in that they behave how they are taught, so if you have an issue with them look at the parents first.

I just dont get the despising of children. If any child were in trouble I would help them - they are children! I just don't get the mindset either.

ETA - i wasn't saying you prefer animals, I was using the collective you!


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> but wouldn't natures way be for over population to die out due to lack of resources, not lack of care for the younger of the species?


My point is that people who don't want/like children shouldn't be pressured by society to have them.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I said from a young age I didn't want kids or to be married. I've babysat nearly every weekend as a teenager, the first job I had was a nanny, I was very involved in being my niece and nephew up, and love them both dearly, Nephew will come to me with all his woe's.

It's not that I dislike children, I have a low tolerance for screamy shouty bad behaved children, although children are strangely attracted to me, they can be mid screaming fit and they catch my eye and I get big smiles ALWAYS my family find it funny that the one person who hasn't a maternal bone in her body is like the piped piper  I do get on really well with children 

Anyway, not wanting children has ended a long term relationship (even they knew from the get go I didn't want children) I'm now nearly 40 and never married and never had children  and I have no regrets at all..............


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I have 5, all by the time I was 26  not keen on a lot of other people's children as I find a lot of them are a bit feral. I was quite happy to be a housewife, with hubby as the breadwinner, while they were little but now that our youngest is 11 & going to high school in September I'm keen to get out & find a career of my own, preferably something animal related, once I've finished the last few weeks of my degree.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> My point is that people who don't want/like children shouldn't be pressured by society to have them.


Ohh I've been told I was "abnormal" for not wanting children 

And always get the you'll meet the right person and change your mind, umm nope to that too  my OH is "the one" I still don't want children lol


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

jenniferx said:


> I have to be honest when someone says they "hate children" I instinctively feel very uneasy and question their character.... I think it's fine to not want children yourself (obviously! We aren't in the dark ages) and to not be a very maternal person (I am not particularly myself) but to actually hate a vulnerable, innocent, dependent child (or any person or creature like this) is not right IMO and I cannot understand this mindset at all.


I'm also the same way with people who say they hate cats (or any animal).

All children are born innocent. The ones many people can't stand are usually the brats created by the parents. They didn't start out being obnoxious, the learned it.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> this is my feeling. admittedly i have always wanted children so don't understand people not wanting them. Even when I wasn't ready for them i was still polite to people who spoke about their kids and to say you prefer animals to kids does baffle me a bit. Kids are like animals in that they behave how they are taught, so if you have an issue with them look at the parents first.
> 
> I just dont get the despising of children. If any child were in trouble I would help them - they are children! I just don't get the mindset either.
> 
> ETA - i wasn't saying you prefer animals, I was using the collective you!


I hate children, it doesn't mean I wouldn't help one if it was stuck down a well or something. I get uneasy if I see one without a person in a shop, just like when I see a dog without an owner.

I don't hate dogs though.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Ohh I've been told I was "abnormal" for not wanting children
> 
> And always get the you'll meet the right person and change your mind, umm nope to that too  my OH is "the one" I still don't want children lol


Just wait, it never stops. I now get asked "why didn't you have kids"??? "Oh but you would have been such a good mother".


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## ginge2804 (Nov 5, 2011)

I have known since I was about 13 that I defiantly DO want kids.
I know its young to decide that, but I love looking after children, and cannot wait to be a mummy!


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm in my early twenties and haven't really decided yet.

I love children and never imagined I wouldn't have them, but I'm not a baby broody person. Animal broody, well that's something else 

When I'm in love with someone I do want to have children with them in the future, but I'm single at the mo and it doesn't cross my mind. 

Sometimes I think with my OCD it would be unfair to have children, I'd never forgive myself if my children picked up on my obsessive compulsive rituals and I really, really struggle to see children in the family touching things I view as contaminated. Hopefully in time I'll be able to better suppress my demons to the point where it wouldn't interfere with how I raised a family. Have to admit I would be absolutely gutted if my OCD robbed me of yet another life experience. Guess it's another motivation to get my illness under better control.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Hisliking kids does not mean that extends to wishing harm on one, refusing to help if one was in danger/harms way etc.

I will personally avoid events if I know there will be kids there. They get on my nerves enough to ruin my enjoyment of an event.

I would be greatly offended if anyone judged my character cos I dislike children. I would go so far to say most people recognise me as a kind and compassionate character... I just dont like kids.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Toby Tyler said:


> My point is that people who don't want/like children shouldn't be pressured by society to have them.


I never said people should have children if they dont want them. Its the active dislike, almost hatred, of children that I think is worrying.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

ginge2804 said:


> I have known since I was about 13 that I defiantly DO want kids.
> I know its young to decide that, but I love looking after children, and cannot wait to be a mummy!


I have always known i wanted kids from about 3 when i was holding my dolly  
When i met OH he said he definitely did not want kids nor get married...he totally changed his mind within a matter of weeks :lol: Now he keeps talking about baby number 4 :lol: Men!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

grumpy goby said:


> Hisliking kids does not mean that extends to wishing harm on one, refusing to help if one was in danger/harms way etc.
> 
> I will personally avoid events if I know there will be kids there. They get on my nerves enough to ruin my enjoyment of an event.
> 
> I would be greatly offended if anyone judged my character cos I dislike children. I would go so far to say most people recognise me as a kind and compassionate character... I just dont like kids.


Do you dislike children full stop or is it actually unruly, loud, misbehaved err monsters 

I love children, especially once they are walking & talking I find them funny and interesting with their innocent enquiring minds. On the other hand I am not keen on whiney ones or children who are allowed to run riot inappropriately - in a park or beach running round having fun is fine, in a restaurant or shop is not pleasant at all


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I never said people should have children if they dont want them. Its the active dislike, almost hatred, of children that I think is worrying.


But the pressure put on people to have them is enormous. Then when you are older and you are content with your choice not to have them you_ still _get asked why you didn't. That's my point.

I don't dislike children in fact I enjoy being around most of them. But I hate being around bratty snot nosed kids who's parents think their spoilt rotten spawn should be allowed to do as they please because they are just too cute to discipline. Or they are too lazy to teach right from wrong.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I never said people should have children if they dont want them. Its the active dislike, almost hatred, of children that I think is worrying.


Why? Grumpy Goby explains it a lot better than I could so why do you find it so worrying? Hating them does not equal wanting to harm them...

I find it worrying that so many women want to give birth to something that has been a parasite for 9 months and will continue to be one for another x amount of years. Why would anyone want to do that?


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## RachJeremy (Sep 14, 2012)

I saw the OP's post on how she can't understand how someone can have kids and still have a job... My parents coped. My dad worked where he is now, he builds motorbikes, leaves home at 7am doesn't finish till 4:30pm, 6pm if he has overtime. My mum was also working the same career just different company, estate agent, working 9am - 3pm whilst i was at school and she had to drive to pick me up as we didn't live nearby and she worked elsewhere. And sometimes at the off chance, we had a 'school run' since all of us kids on the road went to the same two schools that were next to each other. So one parent would do the morning, the other the evening and it would work in shifts, so some weeks the parent could work extra time if needs be. 
Then my parents divorced and it became essential my mum found a home for me and her that was within walking distance of a school, as she'd need to work longer hours. So i was given a house key and would walk to and from school. Which the home we found was literally (unfortunately) only a 2 minute walk from my front door. But parents can easily cope managing a full time job and kids if they're in the right career and have everything they need and can afford it all ect. 

But i can easily say that kids for me... Probably a no. I'd love kids and me and the BF have discussed we'd at least like a little girl.. Not that you can really pick and chose. I know i'd love a boy and a girl. But to be honest the thought of labor terrifies me! Plus, i am a full time yard groom. And anyone who knows horses knows it's not the simple sit back office job! Heck i had my finger dislocated the other day and could have easily ended up with the 4 year old fillies hooves in my head if i didn't get out the way quick enough!!! And plus i'm needing for long hours and i'm sure maternity leave wouldn't go down well at all since we only really have me and one other member of staff on the yard! And i'm pretty sure my boss won't want me staying in full time work whilst i get huge and nearly pop... Plus, i don't think i could ever really afford children... It's hard enough nowadays to afford to live and unless i win the lottery i don't see children being an option. As i wouldn't want them to live on the bear essentials, i would want them to have the best i can provide for them. 

Although given the current time, sometimes i wonder if it'd be a lot easier for me to actually get pregnant and have a child and get a council house and benefits given how many young girls who get pregnant seem to get! XD


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

I decided when I was 16 that I did not want kids! I was quite adamant on the fact and, 30yrs later, have not changed my mind.

I like children that I can give back. I adore my little nephew but would not want one of him full time.

I have absolutely NO regrets about not having children and can't see that I ever will.

People always say "Ooohhhhh, you'll change your mind........." and maybe you will but, equally, maybe you won't!!! 

It used to do my head in when folks would not listen to me when I said I did not want to breed and they would make a big thing about it, like they knew better than me what 'I' wanted. :mad2:

Fortuntely, I have now finally hit the age where they just shut the f*ck up!!!


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I REALLY dislike unruley, poorly behaved kids.... although i recognise its the parents failing with regards to teaching proper manners.

Well behaved kids I can _tolerate_, but tolerate is all I do. I will talk to/play with them - but Im really not enamoured by the situation. I cant see myself having to spend any extended time with a child 

The OH is particularly good with kids and babies; he can settle a crying baby down, plays with them makes them laugh and generally is very good - but he is possibly even more irritated by the general precense of babies and children as I am! 
Perhaps cos he was 17 when his twin brother/sister were born he is more comfortable with them than I am (who had no baby contact as a kid/teenager - i didnt even play with dolls!)

But as I said; thats not to say we would wish any bad on any child, or we wouldn't help if required.

People, including the OH, often say we would be good parents - I just have absolutely no desire to be.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Toby Tyler said:


> But the pressure put on people to have them is enormous. Then when you are older and you are content with your choice not to have them you_ still _get asked why you didn't. That's my point.
> 
> I don't dislike children in fact I enjoy being around most of them. *But I hate being around bratty snot nosed kids who's parents think their spoilt rotten spawn should be allowed to do as they please because they are just too cute to discipline. Or they are too lazy to teach right from wrong*.


No-one likes being round children like that! Its only fair to be annoyed when some parents don't discipline their children and i think its going a long way in causing some of todays problems with society.

I don't have a problem with people not wanting kids, as i said its each to its own.



Bloodraine5252 said:


> Why? Grumpy Goby explains it a lot better than I could so why do you find it so worrying? Hating them does not equal wanting to harm them...
> 
> I find it worrying that so many women want to give birth to something that has been a parasite for 9 months and will continue to be one for another x amount of years. Why would anyone want to do that?


hate is such a strong word - why would it be applied to a child? I do think it says a lot about someone when they say they hate them (which is very different to disliking badly behaved children).

As for wanting to have a child.... I tell you what, lets all stop having kids. no more. how far will mankind get then? its still an evolutionary standpoint to have children to continue the species. yes there are probably too many people on this planet now but if we all stop having kids we wont last long as a species.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> hate is such a strong word - why would it be applied to a child? I do think it says a lot about someone when they say they hate them (which is very different to disliking badly behaved children).
> 
> As for wanting to have a child.... I tell you what, lets all stop having kids. no more. how far will mankind get then? its still an evolutionary standpoint to have children to continue the species. yes there are probably too many people on this planet now but if we all stop having kids we wont last long as a species.


People hate lots of things. Why is it so wrong to say I hate children? Because they can't defend themselves? So is it equally wrong for anyone to say they hate animals?

You keep making a point about badly behaved children, is it just as wrong to say you dislike a well behaved child?

Its as simple as I hate people. Yes there are a few individuals who I enjoy spending time with. Majority, not so much. Fact is it is probable that the children I hate now will grow up to be adults who I hate. It doesn't mean I wish them harm and it doesn't mean I should have to be locked up because I'm a danger to them. I'm not going to apologise for hating all the little "miracles" in this world because it makes people uneasy.

Its like me saying "ohh this person hates apples, must watch out for them something must be wrong with their character!"

As a species the best thing we could do is to die out. Maybe wouldn't benefit out species but would benefit a hell of a lot of others.


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

WelshOneEmma said:


> No-one likes being round children like that! Its only fair to be annoyed when some parents don't discipline their children and i think its going a long way in causing some of todays problems with society.
> 
> I don't have a problem with people not wanting kids, as i said its each to its own.
> 
> ...


I can't imagine the human race dying out somehow. There are way too many of us and frankly, the planet could use a break in numbers as we are slowly destroying everything that is good.


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

I cannot recall ever deciding that I really wanted children badly. In fact, I wasnt that keen to settle down. However, I did...and once I did, and when we discussed trying for a baby, although it was because that was sort of expected of us at that time, I can honestly say, my view changed as soon as I became pregnant. Somthing to do with the survival of the human race I reckon - I became like mother earth herself


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## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> People hate lots of things. Why is it so wrong to say I hate children? Because they can't defend themselves? So is it equally wrong for anyone to say they hate animals?
> 
> You keep making a point about badly behaved children, is it just as wrong to say you dislike a well behaved child?
> 
> ...


Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with people saying they hate this or that provided they are not hurting anyone. One of my friends hates dogs but that doesn't offend me in the slightest.

I don't particularly like people either. People generally I mean -- I like my friends and family of course and some of my acquaintances, but the average person? not really. Plonk me on a desert island with my dogs and I'd be as happy as larry never seeing another human again. I much prefer the company of animals over people any day.


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## smudgiesmummy (Nov 21, 2009)

i've got a low chance of having kids so im on a fence if i have them i do if i don't i dont , apart from that im single 38 and running out of time :lol:

when i was with the ex we wanted to get married and settled first but that never happened and im glad it didn't with the kind of scumbag he was


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## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm 30 and would love kids. Have little experience with them but for some reason they all seem to like me. My sister can't have them naturally due to a previous illness (although there is a small chance IVF may work) so it's all down to me. Just a case of saving enough cash to ensure they had a good upbringing. 




Oh, and finding someone to have them with!


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Ive always wanted children, but up until maybe last year I really believed I wasnt going to. This was mainly due to not having the right partner, now I do and hey presto 6 months pregnant. I work full time and will continue to do so after the baby is here, perfectly possible to have a job and be there for school runs etc. My parents did it with us, we can do it with ours . 

A friend of mine is now in her 40's she nalways said she didnt want children and hasnt had them, her choice entirely  shes alsoo single and lives a brilliant life 

imho nobody should say they dont understand people not wanting children anymore than people should say they dont understand people wanting children. Its called a difference of opinions, why not just leave it at that? :yesnod:


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I don't have children and decided quite early on that I didn't want one and thankfully husband is on the same wave length we did have a scare which compounded my view that I didn't one as I was terrified. I am now 39 and happy with my choice and husband has had the snip so no more scares 

I also dislike children, I live a quiet peaceful life and I find the noise and chaos just unbearable, babies I can cope with they are cuddly and easy to please mostly but manic primary school aged children drive me batty, I love my nieces (6 and 4) dearly but 2 hours of them a week is plenty enough to cement in my mind I made the right decision.

I also find the rudeness of people staggering when you get the nudges and winks when you first get married and then the brazen questioning and I now I get the head tilt and arm rub and the 'oh I'm sorry were you unable to conceive, your not too young you could still try, you'd make a lovely Mum' as I find some people just don't get or aren't willing to accept that I don't want children, I mean I don't ask every parent to justify why they made their choice to have children and then tell them they are a crap parent  I also get hugely enraged when people say 'oh you'll change your mind' well no no I won't and I sure others won't but 'we' just have to smile and say 'oh well you never know' to stop the questioning onslaught, I have even been told how I am ridiculously selfish for depriving my mother of grandchildren as they are apparently more special when they come from your daughter as opposed to her son  eek sorry I shall stop ranting now


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

MontyMaude said:


> I have even been told how I am ridiculously selfish for depriving my mother of grandchildren as they are apparently more special when they come from your daughter as opposed to her son  eek sorry I shall stop ranting now


I think in that sense it is different. My mum had two daughters and she has been there at the birth of our first children, been involved in a lot of the upbringing. You don't get that as much with a son as lets be honest, when you are going through all the 'attractiveness' of labour etc you are usually ok with your mum their but not your partners. I know I wouldnt have had my partners mum, if she were alive, in the room with me.

but nobody should have children if they don't want to and no where have I said they should.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

As silly as it sounds, I decided that I didnt want kids when I was still a kid myself. People gave me the usual "you'll change your mind when you're older" but I never have.

For a start, I have never really been in a position that I would deem suitable to start a family (although that doesnt seem to stop many people nowadays) and I simply dont like children - I have no maternal instincts towards them at all and just find them annoying. I'm in my mid 30's now, single and living with parents so time is quickly running out for me to change my mind anyway, although that will never happen.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I've never thought about it really - I just expected to be a mum one day, it was the one thing I was sure about ever since I've had concious thought.

When I was 2 my grandad said 'she may be my youngest grandchild but she'll be the first to give me a great grandchild' I never knew he's said that until years after my daughter was born, but he was right .

When asked as a young girl what did you want to be when you grow up I always wanted to say a mother but felt it would be frowned upon that that was all I wanted to be so I would answer a maths teacher  - but I've never really cared what I did for work, as long as I earn enough to look after my family I'm happy.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I think in that sense it is different. My mum had two daughters and she has been there at the birth of our first children, been involved in a lot of the upbringing. You don't get that as much with a son as lets be honest, when you are going through all the 'attractiveness' of labour etc you are usually ok with your mum their but not your partners. I know I wouldnt have had my partners mum, if she were alive, in the room with me.
> 
> but nobody should have children if they don't want to and no where have I said they should.


You may think it's different but how do you know just watching someone give birth doesn't make the experience all that different from what I can make out, the children are half my brother so saying it's different for daughters just doesn't really make that much sense to me.

As to your last sentence, no you haven't said that no one shouldn't but you did say you couldn't understand why they wouldn't want children, why can't you understand it, not everybody is same and their wants and needs are different and they need to be respected, I mean I respect your choice to have children as I respect others choices to have children and I don't want to ask them 20 question to justify their decision but in my experience when I have come across people who don't understand my choice it is the followed up with a bombardment of very personal questions. Sorry it's just a huge bug bear of mine.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> I just cannot understand why people would want to have children. How are you supposed to have a job and take kids to school?


many do hold down jobs and have kids, i had mine and didnt go back to work, that was my choice, i wanted to be at home to bring them up full time.

I dont blame anyone for not having children, i blame people for having children that dont really want them or who cant/dont look after them properly.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

MontyMaude said:


> You may think it's different but how do you know just watching someone give birth doesn't make the experience all that different from what I can make out, the children are half my brother so saying it's different for daughters just doesn't really make that much sense to me.
> 
> As to your last sentence, no you haven't said that no one shouldn't but you did say you couldn't understand why they wouldn't want children, why can't you understand it, not everybody is same and their wants and needs are different and they need to be respected, I mean I respect your choice to have children as I respect others choices to have children and I don't want to ask them 20 question to justify their decision but in my experience when I have come across people who don't understand my choice it is the followed up with a bombardment of very personal questions. Sorry it's just a huge bug bear of mine.


yes I said I personally don't understand it, as I have always wanted kids. Its no different to others not understanding people wanting kids. Or some people loving spiders (again, something I dont understand as they scare the bejesus out of me). I never said there was anything wrong with it, just that its not a feeling I understand. I respect people's choices in their life (as long as they don't hurt others, which not having children doesn't hurt others). I havent asked anyone to justify their decision. Not sure why I am being jumped on by people when others have said similar things?

and its different with your own mum and raising a child than it is with an OHs (well it is for me anyway). You would get away with more, including your opinion of how things should be done, when you are the mother of the new mum. Its not like that in all relationships but it is like it in a lot. Go on any parent forum and there are a lot of threads about MILs poking their nose in and giving opinions. if its the mum of the new mum then the opinion is more likely to be received or you feel more comfortable telling your own mum to bog off.


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

On the subject of having a career while raising children, it is probably easier than ever for women to do that. Admittedly it is still damned hard  but infinately do-able. I am not exactly a high flyer but it hasnt held me back.


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## wind1 (Oct 24, 2010)

fierceabby said:


> Also, my sister gets really p'eed off as she has a little girl aged 2 years and boy 9months old - and people keep telling her 'Oooh you can stop now, you've got one of each!!'.


I used to get so fed up with people asking me if I was going to try for a girl after having 2 boys. Once I was out with my first son and my 2 nephews when I was heavily pregnant with my 2nd son. A woman coming towards me said "oohh I hope that one's a girl" obviously thinking all 3 boys were mine. People look amazed when I say I'm perfectly happy with 2 boys and actually glad that I had 2 of the same sex, nobody can believe I could be happy without a daugher. That's not to say I wouldn't have loved a daughter but I'm really not bothered that I didn't have one


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Coming from a large family i never gave it a thought, not to have children. But i'm glad i have mine.
We only have one out of 9 in my family ( my brothers and sisters) that didn't have kids.*


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Not read all the replies because I have work soon.

I've never been maternal. My mum says I'm a natural when it comes to kids, but I just think - HOW? I don't hate them, but I simply don't have the patience for them either. I adore my niece and nephew, but other people's kids are irritating little whatsits. 

On those odd occasions I do read/watch the news I just know that I'd never want to bring a child into the world we live in, a world which they will inherit.

Nor do I want kids for their own sake. Eczema and asthma are prevalent in my family - I have both, plus a problem with my central nervous system (about which I won't go into details). To me, it would be unfair/selfish to have children, knowing I run the risk of passing that/them on to the next generation.

But ... Each to their own. Maybe I will change my mind, but I'm 29 and it hasn't happened yet.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

JANICE199 said:


> *Coming from a large family i never gave it a thought, not to have children. But i'm glad i have mine.
> We only have one out of 9 in my family ( my brothers and sisters) that didn't have kids.*


That's so funny, because I think coming from a large (6 children) family is why I decided _not_ to have them.  I am the only one not to have children, but all my sisters and one brother kept their families very small. 2 kids one sister, the remaining having singletons.

I do remember the teasing my youngest sister endured when she waited to start their family. Her husband was accused of 'shooting blanks'! :yikes:


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## gem88 (Jun 2, 2012)

i decided years ago i didnt want kids. the idea terrifies me mostly because i would hate to turn into my mother. its my biggest fear. however C is the most wonderful thing i ever did. taking him on was the bravest decision i made.

we have fertility problems but im quite happy if i cant have kids. people always look baffled when i say he's the only one and we're not fussed about more which irritates the hell out of me.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

SammyJo said:


> I never have wanted children - im 26 now and I don't think I ever will want any.
> 
> I don't dislike them - I do spend time with friends and family that have children/babies (lovely happy little things) I don't mind that - I play with them / take them to the park / feed them etc but give them back at the end of the day!
> 
> ...


I share these views exactly, especially the last one - the way the world is going, I almost think it is unfair to bring children into it. If I had a choice, i'd choose not to be born into the world as it is now!


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## Guest (May 24, 2013)

As I'm in my 20's now, People keep asking me when I plan on having children. I get asked from all angles! (My sister also gets asked a lot too!)

I'm currently having tests etc as doctors might think it might be difficult for me to conceive, so being asked when I'm planning on having children really hurts emotionally. 

I also want to have a career first.  I have no plans for children for the next 10 years. I want to be able to have a stable career and home before I even think about having a child.

I remember when a friend of mine got asked by her boss if she was going to have children, my friend answered no and her boss called her selfish for not wanting kids. :yikes: I think it's a person's personal choice whether they have children or not. I have nothing against people who choose to not have children and I have nothing against people who do choose to have children.

Asking someone when they are having children is such a personal question and it really annoys me. I would never ask someone that. I know lots of people think it's just general chit chat, but you never know if someone is having difficulty trying to conceive etc. It's a very personal thing.


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

I've always envisioned myself with children. I just cannot imagine growing old and grey without the joy of grand children! I wanted to live my life a bit before having kids so had my first at 30 which was great!

I know loads of people who chose not to have kids chosing a career, exotic holidays, romantic weekends aways, sports car, leisure time, lovely big houses and material things but it all seems a bit shallow. In their twilight years or even once the biological clock stops ticking will they regret it?


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

All I know if I had discovered Border Terriers before babies, I would have been childless.


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## comfycavy (Mar 3, 2013)

I'm 26 now and I have no desire at all for children. In fact if there are kids nearby e.g a shop or restaurant it really put's my nerves on edge and the shrieking/squealing noise they can make really hurts my ears 

There was a toddler on the seat in front of me on the bus the other day and all the time I was thinking "PLEASE don't turn around and stare at me!" and what do you know... he did! gah!! I just awkwardly smiled and fixed my gaze out of the window for the next ten miles, praying he would sit back down, he only did when the bus turned a corner, which wasn't often! 

Saying that I will help a mum if she is struggling with a pushchair etc. as long as I don't have to hold the baby I don't mind being a good citizen 

The whole "best thing that will ever happen" comments that you hear sometimes really tick me off though. "wonderful" "nothing will compare". It get's bandied around like it's some sort of fact!  No, for me the most amazing thing to come into my life is lying right in front of me, fast asleep and that's my rescue dog, I adore her and I'm incredibly lucky to have her (a lot of people won't understand this, but then again some will) to think of the lovely animals that I will share my home with throughout my life fills me with absolute joy, why would I need anything else?


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Some people, like my Daughter can't have a kid. She doesn't want any, any way, but others in the same boat are desperate to have a baby.
Personally other peoples babies/kids, leave me cold. I am not a maternal type even though I had 2 of my own.
Most of the kids I come across nowadays are *brats.* Not all there are a few who have been well brought up.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

grumpy goby said:


> People, including the OH, often say we would be good parents - I just have absolutely no desire to be.


I get on great with children and really enjoy being with them and giving them a fun time.

When my SS was younger, we went out for the day once and he was gobsmacked when, not only did I encourage him to do roly-poly down the big hill but that I joined in with him!! 42yrs old and doing roly-polies!!! Bring it on!!!! :thumbup:

I have been told SO many times that I would be a fantastic mother but I simply have absolutely no desire to be. I think this is why I have had to 'justify' myself so often - people see me with kids and think I should have some of my own.

It NEVER occurs to them that I am so good with kids BECAUSE I don't have any of my own!!!


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

NEVER wanted kids. I spent my teenage years looking after Christ knows how many wee cousins (were Catholic) and they were a massive pain in the arse.


Met my now fiancé, I was 21 and 18mths in I asked for another puppy, somehow got talked into getting pregnant :laugh: Spent the first year of Antons life swearing never again! Had morning/noon/night sickness for 4mths, 24hr labour, 2nd degree tear and the first week in Neonatal  He is 2 next week and I cant wait to do it again 

I have seen my son grow up next to my pets, he's made me seek help for my illness and want to make him proud.
I love my son, cant stand anyone else's tho!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

On the same note, there really are some people who should not be allowed to have children  or if you can't afford to raise them yourself then don't have them or more


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## Iheartcats (Aug 25, 2011)

Meezey said:


> On the same note, there really are some people who should not be allowed to have children  or if you can't afford to raise them yourself then don't have them or more


I agree with this! I was in the hairdressers the other day and I heard a mother outside give her 5 year old (or there abouts) a torrent of abuse saying "your a horrible little girl, you aren't coming to MY house today!! You are coming to Nanny's house to which she said terrified "No not Nanny!!!!! Then the mother dragged her arm and pulled her up the road. Poor little girl 

Granted I didn't see what led to this "incident" but I'd never terrify my child like this!


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Iheartcats said:


> I agree with this! I was in the hairdressers the other day and I heard a mother outside give her 5 year old (or there abouts) a torrent of abuse saying "your a horrible little girl, you aren't coming to MY house today!! You are coming to Nanny's house to which she said terrified "No not Nanny!!!!! Then the mother dragged her arm and pulled her up the road. Poor little girl
> 
> Granted I didn't see what led to this "incident" but I'd never terrify my child like this!


Sounds like a flashback to what I grew up with.... :001_huh:


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Goblin said:


> As a man I can't really comment on the female side of things but to say my wife and I decided to have children together before we tied the knot. It's a case where if one of us did want children and the other didn't it could have caused problems. Unfortunately we have only one.
> 
> Why the middle class aren't breeding any more: It's a profound social shift no one talks about - but it could transform the face of Britain | Mail Online may be an interesting article to bring up though.


Brilliant article.

Very true as well regarding social classes tending to have kids young

Thanks for posting


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

I decided I didn't wan them when I realised how damn annoying they are

I don't want them because

1) I hate them

2) im not maternal

3) I have better things to spend my money on (my pets, tattoos, take always, DVDs etc)

4) the smell, they cry, they are annoying

5) I can't think of anything worse than spending he next 18 years looking after something I don't give a **** about, I like going to bed at 6am and getting up a 4:30pm and I'm not changing hat for some kid


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Iheartcats said:


> I agree with this! I was in the hairdressers the other day and I heard a mother outside give her 5 year old (or there abouts) a torrent of abuse saying "your a horrible little girl, you aren't coming to MY house today!! You are coming to Nanny's house to which she said terrified "No not Nanny!!!!! Then the mother dragged her arm and pulled her up the road. Poor little girl
> 
> Granted I didn't see what led to this "incident" but I'd never terrify my child like this!


This is were I get myself in trouble, as much as I don't want children, and I'm not maternal and I'll be honest and say not keen on being round children, I can not stand buy and what people be cruel to their children in any shape or form, it drives me INSANE, I know there are stresses and strains involved with bringing up children, but if you can't control your temper with your own flesh and blood, then don't have them.. If they act like this in public with child, god help that child at home


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I don't want them because
> 
> 1) I hate them
> 
> ...


Wow and ain't you just a charmer, and thank god you don't want children  that said I'm sure no-one would want to get close enough to you with that attitude so the world is safe.................


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Wow and ain't you just a charmer, and thank god you don't want children  that said I'm sure no-one would want to get close enough to you with that attitude so the world is safe.................


I've had a partner since 2001 and been engaged since 2004

Nice try


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I fear for when my OH's nephew discovers what an egocentric, useless, selfish waste of space his smack addict father is. And they actively chose to have kids when one is a violent skag head . Wrong, wrong, wrong. The child is a lovely wee boy and it is just hard to see how he can navigate his life successfully without it being ruined by that man- and to be fair to see his mother put up with it too. 

I've also been in public spaces where parents are being complete w****** to their children. I was in quite a posh venue not that long ago and listened to what I think was their stepfather rip into one the girls who was about 10 years old. Really inappropriate IMO, in public or private! It makes you wonder what these parents say and do behind closed doors when they are that unashamedly nasty out in the open.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I've had a partner since 2001 and been engaged since 2004
> 
> Nice try


No nice try, thank god you don't want children......... Partner must have a thick skin, some people deserve medals :laugh:

Like I said there are some that just shouldn't have children..


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## wind1 (Oct 24, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I decided I didn't wan them when I realised how damn annoying they are
> 
> I don't want them because
> 
> ...


You were one once!


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I decided I didn't wan them when I realised how damn annoying they are
> 
> I don't want them because
> 
> ...


Wow, just wow!

Your 'disabled' right? Well those nasty, smelly crying annoying little brats will most certainly at some point be wiping your arse!

to be honest your attitude disgusts me! :angry:


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Meezey said:


> No nice try, thank god you don't want children......... Partner must have a thick skin, some people deserve medals :laugh:
> 
> Like I said there are some that just shouldn't have children..


Luckily he feels th same as me


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

wind1 said:


> You were one once!


So? ......


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I've had a partner since 2001 and been engaged since 2004
> 
> Nice try


Engaged for 9 years???

Is it worth it???? 

Or.....

Only 'engaged' for 9 years - I wonder why that might be???? 

.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

harley bear said:


> to be honest your attitude disgusts me! :angry:


I don't care to be honest


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I often wonder how some people get through life without being repeatedly punched in the face for their sheer ignorance, arrogance and rudeness. Then people like to "play make believe" on the internet don't they.........


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

MoggyBaby said:


> Engaged for 9 years???
> 
> Is it worth it????
> 
> ...


So what if we've been nagged for 9 years


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Meezey said:


> I often wonder how some people get through life without being repeatedly punched in the face for their sheer ignorance, arrogance and rudeness. Then people like to "play make believe" on the internet don't they.........


I have the same views and opinions in RL as I do on here


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> So what if we've been nagged for 9 years


He doesnt want to marry you because one day he wants to run away while you sleep :laugh:


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## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

I've never wanted kids - I have a sick phobia for a start, I have zero tolerance for pain, I hate blood and i'm a total wimp!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Luckily he feels th same as me


Yes luckily for us all he does..................................................... Well I suppose they say misery loves company.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

harley bear said:


> He doesnt want to marry you because one day he wants to run away while you sleep :laugh:


See that might be true if it wasn't me that wants a long engagement


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I have the same views and opinions in RL as I do on here


Pssst spoiler alert, this is RL too, it's not like SL were you can make things up as you go along, didn't anyone explain that to you sweety?


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Yes luckily for us all he does..................................................... Well I suppose they say misery loves company.


Why assume we are miserable? We are both quite happy actually


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Meezey said:


> Pssst spoiler alert, this is RL too, it's not like SL were you can make things up as you go along, didn't anyone explain that to you sweety?




............


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Why assume we are miserable? We are both quite happy actually


I guess a life looking at the same 4 walls and only being awake why normal folk are in bed must be a hell of alot of fun.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Anyway bored of the "tinker"... :rolleyes5: It's Friday and I'm happy so I unfortunately no longer wish to be in your venom stream enjoy your bitterness


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

:lol: haven't read through the whole thread but seen tinktinktinkerbells message quoted, sitting lmao, that's got to be a joke right :lol: 


back to the original question 
I really don't know I've always said I don't want kids, but I guess if I met someone who did and we were settled and financially stable etc I wouldn't rule it out. never say never.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

harley bear said:


> I guess a life looking at the same 4 walls and only being awake why normal folk are in bed must be a hell of alot of fun.


It explains why Tink is such a troll IMO bitter and jealous.

Just read the posts above and I fully agree. I wont be responding either. Im not spoiling Friday night, it is glass of wine time


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

harley bear said:


> I guess a life looking at the same 4 walls and only being awake why normal folk are in bed must be a hell of alot of fun.


Yes it is actually

I have everything I want in life bar a fully working body

But aside from the body thing I couldn't be happier


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> It explains why Tink is such a troll IMO bitter and jealous


Lol, I have nothing to be jealous of


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Lol, I have nothing to be jealous of


I bet its a hoot and terribly tiring wondering where to troll next ... not to mention what to spend your benefits on. All go eh?


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## sophoscar (Apr 25, 2008)

I dont have kids yet but one day i hope to. Though i should be more careful at the moment astrying to sort out my career first but my oh wants kids.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Yes it is actually
> 
> I have everything I want in life bar a fully working body
> 
> But aside from the body thing I couldn't be happier


Sorry was leaving but BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA do you wanna tell your attitude your happy then, coz your sunny side ain't shining through in anything I've seen you posting my dear not one JOT... Oh well that's my happy smiley thought in my head for that night.. That's like the Grim Reaper saying he's happy......... :hand:

Right right no more anymore of this frivolity........what a wee tinker the tink one is.........


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

harley bear said:


> I bet its a hoot and terribly tiring wondering where to troll next ... not to mention what to spend your benefits on. All go eh?


Well I don't troll

And I have a list of what to spend my wages on


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I sometimes think when people are worried about having children they seem to focus on babies (i am not great with babies). BUT they arent babies for long. The vommitting and shitting soon stops. My children are 5 and 6 and we have so much fun. Movie nights, popcorn, horse riding, camping, longs walks with the dog , I could go on . Having kids isnt all had work, back chat and cheekynes. It is actually FUN too


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## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

harley bear said:


> I bet its a hoot and terribly tiring wondering where to troll next ... not to mention what to spend your benefits on. All go eh?


*sits down with a cuppa*
oooh ladies calm down :yikes:
What have I missed?


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

ClaireLouise said:


> I sometimes think when people are worried about having children they seem to focus on babies (i am not great with babies). BUT they arent babies for long. The vommitting and shitting soon stops. My children are 5 and 6 and we have so much fun. Movie nights, popcorn, horse riding, camping, longs walks with the dog , I could go on . Having kids isnt all had work, back chat and cheekynes. It is actually FUN too


see when I think about having kids I'm the opposite, babys yes, toddlers yes, young kids up to about 12 yes but as soon as they hit the teens, that's what puts me right off


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> *sits down with a cuppa*
> oooh ladies calm down :yikes:
> What have I missed?


Well the grim reaper came in a did a bit of comedy..... So happy and funny and full of the joys of spring... Other than that not much..


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> *sits down with a cuppa*
> oooh ladies calm down :yikes:
> What have I missed?


You missed me getting personally attacked for having an opinion


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

redroses2106 said:


> see when I think about having kids I'm the opposite, babys yes, toddlers yes, young kids up to about 12 yes but as soon as they hit the teens, that's what puts me right off


I do know what you mean as it is a more trying time when they get older. I am not too worried about mine getting older, I am looking forward to it. However every year I do wish they wouldnt get any older.


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## gorgeous (Jan 14, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> You missed me getting personally attacked for having an opinion


I cannot believe your attitude! I actually think you could make an onion cry....I really do!!


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> You missed me getting personally attacked for having an opinion


I do agree to an extent - I think you need to try and be a little more tactful with your wording though so as not to leave people feeling insulted or like you just say things to try wind them up, I personally found your post really funny, I don't think you meant it to come across as funny though :laugh:


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

redroses2106 said:


> I do agree to an extent - I think you need to try and be a little more tactful with your wording though so as not to leave people feeling insulted or like you just say things to try wind them up


So it's ok for them to personally attack me but not for me to have an opinion in which I'm not personally attacking anyone?

K then


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

ClaireLouise said:


> I sometimes think when people are worried about having children they seem to focus on babies (i am not great with babies). BUT they arent babies for long. The vommitting and shitting soon stops. My children are 5 and 6 and we have so much fun. Movie nights, popcorn, horse riding, camping, longs walks with the dog , I could go on . Having kids isnt all had work, back chat and cheekynes. It is actually FUN too


And then they become young teenager and you get to watch the 'good' telly together, talk about the news, play games and have even more fun and then eventually they can buy the wine  
I've loved every step of my kids development and now as young adults 17-27 I continue to enjoy their company 

I don't think anyone should be judged because they do or don't have kids - there are all sots of reasons why people don't have kids and I would never dream of asking someone why they didn't (I don't get asked why I did) 
And I really don't understand it when people are told they are selfish because they aren't having kids - in my opinion I'm more selfish for having them 

But I love the fact that my step daughter has had a baby and I can't wait for my eldest to have a baby (but the plan is to wait at least another 3 years), and if she chooses not to I'll 'grieve' for the grandchildren that will never be but I'll also support her choices and I'm happy as long as she is happy


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Not wrong with waiting a few years to get married I was with husband for 8 years before we married because I was a commitmentphobe and we are about to celebrate our 13th wedding anniversary, but I have to say I think some of the comments to Tink are a tad below the belt, if she annoys you that much put her on ignore as surely if you believe she is trolling then you are playing into her hands by biting.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Fleur said:


> And then they become young teenager and you get to watch the 'good' telly together, talk about the news, play games and have even more fun and then eventually they can buy the wine
> I've loved every step of my kids development and now as young adults 17-27 I continue to enjoy their company
> 
> I don't think anyone should be judged because they do or don't have kids - there are all sots of reasons why people don't have kids and I would never dream of asking someone why they didn't (I don't get asked why I did)
> ...


I fully agree. if people want children its fine, if they dont thats fine too  we couldnt all be the same could we


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

redroses2106 said:


> see when I think about having kids I'm the opposite, babys yes, toddlers yes, young kids up to about 12 yes but as soon as they hit the teens, that's what puts me right off


Me too. If they stayed babies forever I might have had a few. :laugh:


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> So it's ok for them to personally attack me but not for me to have an opinion in which I'm not personally attacking anyone?
> 
> K then


that's not what I said though is it, I said I agree you were being personally attacked BUT from the other side of the argument it might be worth while wording things a tad more tactfully.


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## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Well the grim reaper came in a did a bit of comedy..... So happy and funny and full of the joys of spring... Other than that not much..



Well then, mind if I settle down and watch?



tinktinktinkerbell said:


> You missed me getting personally attacked for having an opinion


Well, depends how you phrase it because i've seen your posts and they can get quite... how you say.. 'shirty'


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> So what if we've been nagged for 9 years


Oh I DO love a freudian slip...........


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I have one large warning to people and I have seen it in action too,






BE GOOD TO YOUR CHILDREN, AFTER ALL THEY GET TO PICK YOUR NURSING HOME


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Fleur said:


> And then they become young teenager and you get to watch the 'good' telly together, talk about the news, play games and have even more fun and then eventually they can buy the wine
> I've loved every step of my kids development and now as young adults 17-27 I continue to enjoy their company
> 
> I don't think anyone should be judged because they do or don't have kids - there are all sots of reasons why people don't have kids and I would never dream of asking someone why they didn't (I don't get asked why I did)
> ...


I've watched my niece and nephew grow up, now 17 and 21, and I love that I get to have the relationship I do with them, when my nephew was in early teens he used to stay at mine every weekend, and he now house sits for me, and I love that I can have adult conversations with him and he knows he can come to me for help and advise on anything.. it will be wonderful when he has kids, but still don't want my own lol


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

MoggyBaby said:


> Oh I DO love a freudian slip...........


:yikes: :laugh:

Well we have been nagged off the parents :laugh:


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## ginge2804 (Nov 5, 2011)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> Why assume we are miserable? We are both quite happy actually


If you are happy, you should maybe make it show a bit more in your posts,
cuz your constant moaning and miserable posts certainly don't show a happy person.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

wind1 said:


> You were one once!


I hate this argument. Mum tries this one all the time when I say I hate kids. At the end of the day I never asked to be here so just because I used to be a kid doesn't mean I have to like them.


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## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

BOOBS




































































































:lol:


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## purpleskyes (May 24, 2012)

I have an actual phobia of all things to do with having a child. It's to the extent that I can't even look at a bump it makes me feel physically sick. My pregnant boss took great joy in rubbing her bump on me and making me scream. :/ 

So for me I dont think I could go through it mentally at all. My OH really wants kids so I don't know what the future holds for us.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

purpleskyes said:


> I have an actual phobia of all things to do with having a child. It's to the extent that I can't even look at a bump it makes me feel physically sick. My pregnant boss took great joy in rubbing her bump on me and making me scream. :/
> 
> So for me I dont think I could go through it mentally at all. My OH really wants kids so I don't know what the future holds for us.


Oh I love baby bumps


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> BOOBS
> 
> :lol:


:yikes: You said a bad word!!!!!!

Bum!!!!!!

:lol: :lol:

.


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## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

moggybaby said:


> :yikes: You said a bad word!!!!!!
> 
> Bum!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Pahahahahahahhaha


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> I hate this argument. Mum tries this one all the time when I say I hate kids. At the end of the day I never asked to be here so just because I used to be a kid doesn't mean I have to like them.


This!

It's like saying you're a human so you have to like all humans


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

purpleskyes said:


> I have an actual phobia of all things to do with having a child. It's to the extent that I can't even look at a bump it makes me feel physically sick. My pregnant boss took great joy in rubbing her bump on me and making me scream. :/
> 
> *So for me I dont think I could go through it mentally at all. My OH really wants kids so I don't know what the future holds for us*.


Unfortunately wanting kids will play a big part. Years ago I was with someone and they were adamant they never wanted kids. For years I hoped that would change but it didn't (he was also an ar5e as well) so there was no where for the relationship to go. Its a pretty big thing for one of you to give in on.



Meezey said:


> Oh I love baby bumps


I never thought I would say this, but I miss my baby bump. Its the weirdest feeling with the baby moving, but I do miss it - even though I was in agony at the end!


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> This!
> 
> It's like saying you're a human so you have to like all humans


I'm not sure some of the people who post on here are human.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

ginge2804 said:


> If you are happy, you should maybe make it show a bit more in your posts,
> cuz your constant moaning and miserable posts certainly don't show a happy person.


I tend to take part in serious debates


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I'm not sure some of the people who post on here are human.


If that was directed at me i am human


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

I always knew I'd be a mum had my first at 19 second 12months later at 21 (ours 3 birthdays are within 18days) and my 3rd at 28

Me and oh have been together since I was 17 I'm 29 next month I've always worked with kids aswell (when I wasn't a sahm) love spending time with them I'm back to work in 3 months time  I am also my sisters child care
Provider for her 7month old its hard work with a 5month old lol

I personally couldn't have my life without children in it


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

I always wanted children, i have 2, they are now grown up and have given me wonderfull grandchildren, i have also been a foster mum, i love to have children around me, but thats my choice, i respect people who have children and can bring them up ,i also respect people who choose not to have children .


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

When I was younger I was adamant I'd never want kids. Once I hit my twenties I started getting a bit more maternal and nowadays (at twenty six) I do find myself feeling very broody at times. Damn hormones. I would like to have kids one day, whether or not I actually should is another story - there's history of mental illness in the family that I would not want to pass on. I probably won't end up breeding anyway.

I've always found it a bit off when someone says they _hate_ children. And then to get annoyed when they get questioned for it. If you go around saying you hate an entire section of humanity you're going to rile people.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> I just cannot understand why people would want to have children. How are you supposed to have a job and take kids to school?


You learn to juggle... Never wanted kids then my Father died and my whole view on things changed...and 2 children by time I was 23 !


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I'm not sure some of the people who post on here are human.


Why? Because not everybody shares your view on children? Nice! Just because I don't want to contribute to the over population crisis doesn't make me inhuman.

If there was a button to wipe out the entire human race (inc me) I would push it. Over population problems are generally self limiting in other species. We just keep breeding and shove other species to the sidelines like that's OK.

ETA: its nice that someone gets abuse (tinktinkerbell?) When they're actually upfront and honest about their reasons for not wanting children.


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## Guest (May 24, 2013)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> Why? Because not everybody shares your view on children? Nice! Just because I don't want to contribute to the over population crisis doesn't make me inhuman.
> 
> If there was a button to wipe out the entire human race (inc me) I would push it. Over population problems are generally self limiting in other species. We just keep breeding and shove other species to the sidelines like that's OK.
> 
> ETA: its nice that someone gets abuse (tinktinkerbell?) When they're actually upfront and honest about their reasons for not wanting children.


Love your lighthearted view on this thread...


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## Guest (May 24, 2013)

Never imagined myself as a dad, but found myself being one at 19!!! Love my two lads to bits...even quite looking forward to being a grandad...if/when it happens...


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

CharleyRogan said:


> I live with 4 kids now, and they are such hard work, all the fighting, tantrums, rudeness, the school runs, and I honestly find it hard and I play the role of stay at home mum and tidy up after them, cook their tea, help with homework, and I honestly do not understand how people go to work, and then go home to look after kids, its knackering without having to go to work. I don't know if it because I'm not mum, and I don't feel as much attachment to them.


As others said the bond should be there if they were your own. 4 spoiled kids -fighting, rudeness, tantrums and shouldn't they be tidying up after themselves? - is hopefully not what your children would be like either. 

That said, it's good that you are experiencing the realities before committing your life to having children. It does give you a unique perspective into what life with kids can entail. Be thankful, a lot of people don't get that opportunity.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I knew when I was around 16 I didn't want children, mind hasn't changed over time. I really dislike children, cannot stand to be around them - well behaved or not. 

I don't date men who have kids, or those who want them. 

I don't get bothered by people saying I'll change my mind, and having a house full of cats seems to stop that too.


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

I know my own children wouldn't be spoilt, or cheeky, because I wouldn't stand for it for one second. I worry about not being a good parent, the baby stage, the toddler stage, Autism (I honestly dunno what I would do if I had an autistic child) I worry about bullying at school, cos kids can be arseholes at times. A child being constantly there all the time, not being able to go out, not having money for myself, I'm still very selfish and not ready to share my life with a person who is going to be my responsibility for the rest of my life.


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## wind1 (Oct 24, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> I decided I didn't wan them when I realised how damn annoying they are
> 
> I don't want them because
> 
> ...





wind1 said:


> You were one once!





Bloodraine5252 said:


> I hate this argument. Mum tries this one all the time when I say I hate kids. At the end of the day I never asked to be here so just because I used to be a kid doesn't mean I have to like them.


I'm not saying she has to like children, I'm pointing out she was a child once so did she smell, cry and annoy? Did her parents hate her and think there were better things to spend their money on than her? Did they feel there was nothing worse than looking after some kid they don't give a **** about? It's each individuals choice to have children or not and I would never criticise someone for choosing to not have children.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

wind1 said:


> i used to get so fed up with people asking me if i was going to try for a girl after having 2 boys. Once i was out with my first son and my 2 nephews when i was heavily pregnant with my 2nd son. A woman coming towards me said "oohh i hope that one's a girl" obviously thinking all 3 boys were mine. People look amazed when i say i'm perfectly happy with 2 boys and actually glad that i had 2 of the same sex, nobody can believe i could be happy without a daugher. That's not to say i wouldn't have loved a daughter but i'm really not bothered that i didn't have one


:d dont get me started on the "oh what a shame you havnt got one of each!!!!!!!"


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I think its good to admit you are "selfish" when thinking of whether or not you want children, too many children are had for the wrong reasons, born to a selfish mothers that wants to go out every weekend, wants money for herself, sleep ALL night and lie in at the weekends, that doesnt happen or shouldnt happen when children come along and the more people that realise that you have to come 2nd when you have a child the better a lot of our younger generation will be.

I cant understand the "hating" of a child, even the naughty ones because thats down to the parenting, not always the cause but how they deal with it.
I couldnt imagine being without my children ok lots of hard work and sacrifices along the way but thats just been a parent and when i look at my 2 beautiful grandaughters, i realise THEY are the reason i didnt strangle their daddy more than once 

Having children certainly is the most rewarding job you will ever do if done right so i think if children arnt your "thing" then dont have them but if for some reason you do then they bring their own love and theres no other feeling like it.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> I know my own children wouldn't be spoilt, or cheeky, because I wouldn't stand for it for one second. I worry about not being a good parent, the baby stage, the toddler stage, Autism (I honestly dunno what I would do if I had an autistic child) I worry about bullying at school, cos kids can be arseholes at times. A child being constantly there all the time, not being able to go out, not having money for myself, *I'm still very selfish and not ready to share my life with a person who is going to be my responsibility for the rest of my life*.


That's the difference! When I was your age I was exactly the same. I was still figuring out what and who I wanted from life (and having fun along the way!  )

You can't be selfish when you have kids. They have to come first. Their needs always over ride yours. I turned 34 a month after I had my first. Would I like to have been younger? yes. But did I wait until I was ready? Most definitely yes!

We are in the right place financially and emotionally for a baby. Some people get there sooner but I was an 'old mum' 

As long as you know the reasons and understand why you aren't ready (if you ever do decide you want them) then you are already being a good mum. once they come they can't go back!


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

IF I were to have a kid I have no doubt I oils love the child and do my best for it. I honestly do believe I would make an ok mum the my oh would be a brilliant father.

But that's not to say its the life I want or would plan for. I will say I hate kids, as an off the cuff remark, but I don't mean harm to kids. I am just not drawn to them at all and am irritated by them.

As much it grinds me to admit it, but for once I agree with tink (despite her lack of tact or consideration) I do see them as a burden to what I want my life to be. I think of a baby and all I think is crying, vomit and nappies lol. I know there is more joy to it than that but I just enjoy having a free and easy lifestyle

_Posted from Petforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Was never interested in babies when I was younger, ugh! even my nieces and nephews were just squakking bundles of snotty stink. Cuddle 'em? not a cats chance of hell. Never wanted children of my own. 

But when I did get pregnant it all change. Mother of two by the time I was 21  

My boys are 19 and 17 now and I have loved being a Mum... 

And being a young Mum never stopped me from doing what I wanted to do either...I decided I wanted a career working with children when my own were small. I did my NVQ's when my boys were little, now they are 19 and 17 I am in University studying for my degree. 

My boys have always worked hard at school, and I like to think I was a good role model for studying hard to get what you want in life.

After my degree I want to study further for the BA Hons. And then maybe EYP. It will take me another 5 years which is a lot to dedicate to study but this was the dvantage of having my babies young, at 38 I am still young enough to be able to do what I want now they have grown up. Being a young Mum doesn't mean the end of your dreams, it just means the dreams get deferred a while  

At the moment I am room leader of a busy toddler room in a day Nursery, and in October I shall be undertaking the role of Deputy Manager and Safeguarding co-ordinator.... I know my boys are proud of me, because they have grown up watching me study and achieve the good things


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

jon bda said:


> Never imagined myself as a dad, but found myself being one at 19!!! Love my two lads to bits...even quite looking forward to being a grandad...if/when it happens...


I have become a grandma 3 times in the last 7 months and believe me jon grandchildren are so much better, you can hand them back.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

CharleyRogan said:


> Autism (I honestly dunno what I would do if I had an autistic child)


You would just do because you would just have too. Motherhood can actually bring out some very admirable qualities in some people. Where others shouldn't even be able to think or speak the word child let alone have any.


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## j4nfr4n (Mar 10, 2013)

Firedog said:


> You would just do because you would just have too. Motherhood can actually bring out some very admirable qualities in some people. Where others shouldn't even be able to think or speak the word child let alone have any.


i have seven grandchildren four of whom are special needs autism and aspergers they are all hard work but we grandad and myself reap the benefits of having these children when they reward us with their love. my three children were hard work having had all three in under four years but they have all made us proud and given us these seven grandchildren whom i could never imagine being without


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

MissShelley said:


> My boys have always worked hard at school, and I like to think I was a good role model for studying hard to get what you want in life.
> ............ I know my boys are proud of me, because they have grown up watching me study and achieve the good things


Indeed. We are role models for our children in far more ways than most people realise :yikes:


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

I hate it when people scream at their children in public, makes me scared for the child. As for the threat of going to "nan's" my child will probably say "YEY!!!" my nieces have nicknamed my mum nana course you can :lol:


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

nutty said:


> Indeed. We are role models for our children in far more ways than most people realise :yikes:


And although it was by no means a conscious wish when I first embarked on my journey of motherhood, I do truly feel that in raising my chidren at least I have a chance of helping to shape those tiny lives that one day will be let lose upon the world. :001_wub:


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

Firedog said:


> You would just do because you would just have too. Motherhood can actually bring out some very admirable qualities in some people. Where others shouldn't even be able to think or speak the word child let alone have any.


I saw the effects of stress on my mum. My mum had twins, and one died and the other had autism and it sent her into a depressive state and she was absent for many years of my life


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

CharleyRogan said:


> I saw the effects of stress on my mum. My mum had twins, and one died and the other had autism and it sent her into a depressive state and she was absent for many years of my life


That is sad really really sad but it doesn't mean that you would be the same even in the same situation. Maybe you haven't really been shown a good example of how too be a mum but you know in yourself how you would have liked your mum too have been and you could pull on that too do a good job provided that inherited depression didn't get in the way(not that I am saying depression stops anyone being a good mum it just makes it a little harder).
Sorry if I have offended anyone, not intentional but my words don't always come out right.

One day you may feel different about having children and what ever you decide too do you will do a good job i'm sure.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

CharleyRogan said:


> I know my own children wouldn't be spoilt, or cheeky, because I wouldn't stand for it for one second. I worry about not being a good parent, the baby stage, the toddler stage, Autism (I honestly dunno what I would do if I had an autistic child) I worry about bullying at school, cos kids can be arseholes at times.


I think every would-be parent worries themselves over all of those things + more! I suppose in the end having and loving your baby trumps all the rest (for most parents anyway).

Who knows where any of us will be in ten years time! You've plenty of time to still discover what is right/wrong for you.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Never really wanted them, who on earth would want to bring a child into this evil world.


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## vickie1985 (Feb 18, 2009)

i wanted a family from quite a young age. I honestly think at the age of 13/14 i knew i wanted to settle down young and start a family young.

I settled at 17 just couldnt do the family thing without help so that came age 25 almost 26.

Sometimes we plan things that we do or dont stick too, sometimes we change our minds and sometimes nature stops things for us.

For now you dont want children thats fine, stick to that, if you change your mind then it doesnt matter


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## Guest (May 25, 2013)

CharleyRogan said:


> I saw the effects of stress on my mum. My mum had twins, and one died and the other had autism and it sent her into a depressive state and she was absent for many years of my life


You are not your mum hon...


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> .... who on earth would want to bring a child into this evil world.


This is one of many reasons I'm personally grateful for not having them.


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## Guest (May 25, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> Never really wanted them, who on earth would want to bring a child into this evil world.


Good job people didn't think the same way during World Wars 1 and 2, maybe your parents may have not been about.

Is everyone on this thread mostly a 'glass half empty' kind of person?


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

It's NOT an evil world. There is evil in the world but there's FAR more good.

A small number of people were involved in killing that poor soldier. That was evil, pure evil. How many people showed great courage in speaking to the killers and tackling them? How many people have expressed sincere grief for what has happened and brought flowers, sent messages of consolation and honestly tried to support his family?

When terrible things happen they hit the news but when people do good (and they DO) it's not news.

Open your eyes you lot! Look at the beauty around you. look at skies and admire the clouds or the stars. Look at a flower. REALLY look at it, look deep into the centre of it. Did you ever see such shapes and colours? Listen to a little child laugh.

My mother always says "she'd hate to be bringing up children, now" and it makes me furious. When she was the same age as my Younger Monster the second world war was raging. I'd FAR rather be bringing children up NOW than THEN.

I had an 18th Birthday Party for Older Monster a couple of months ago and at any time we would have had about 60 people of his age in the house, they came and went. NOT ONE GOT DRUNK! NOT ONE WAS A PAIN! When the music was turned off (11.30pm, according to the council regulations) they all sat around a piano and listened to one of his mates play. They all _looked _as though they enjoyed themselves.

Older Monster is having a gap year. He's working six days a week saving money to go overseas. He's also part of a programme that helps kids with their homework. Last year he taught basic science at his old primary school every Friday afternoon.

I'm NOT saying he's anything special. I'm just saying he's NOT a rat-bag. NOT all kids are rat-bags and MANY are good members of society. I could name you fifty kids just like him but none of them are "in the news".

Cheer up folk!!

This endeth the rant...........


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## Guest (May 25, 2013)

ozrex said:


> It's NOT an evil world. There is evil in the world but there's FAR more good.
> 
> A small number of people were involved in killing that poor soldier. That was evil, pure evil. How many people showed great courage in speaking to the killers and tackling them? How many people have expressed sincere grief for what has happened and brought flowers, sent messages of consolation and honestly tried to support his family?
> 
> ...


Not a rant, but a post worth reading...


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## Guest (May 25, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> Never really wanted them, who on earth would want to bring a child into this evil world.


Not why I brought children in to this world, but this quote fits:

It's not our job to toughen our children up to face a cruel and heartless world. It's our job to raise children who will make the world a little less cruel and heartless. ~L.R. Knost

I'm with Ozrex. It's only an evil world if you choose to focus on the evil. And it is a choice. We can also choose to share love and goodness and in turn touch others the same way.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

ouesi said:


> Not why I brought children in to this world, but this quote fits:
> 
> It's not our job to toughen our children up to face a cruel and heartless world. It's our job to raise children who will make the world a little less cruel and heartless. ~L.R. Knost
> 
> I'm with Ozrex. It's only an evil world if you choose to focus on the evil. And it is a choice. We can also choose to share love and goodness and in turn touch others the same way.


My thoughts exactly, but you said it much better than I could 

There will always be evil, and bad things will always happen. Wars won't end, not while we have corrupt governments and religion, but at least by raising our children to be the best that we could ever expect them to be then we know that we will have done our bit to keep the good going


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

jon bda said:


> Good job people didn't think the same way during World Wars 1 and 2, maybe your parents may have not been about.


Only there are far more people now and the world is not the same place as it was then.


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> Only there are far more people now and the world is not the same place as it was then.


Same 5h1t, different day...we just hear more about everything that goes on nowadays...


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## nutty (Feb 17, 2013)

...and we live in a world where we are indulged in the immediacy of television, mobile phones/computers. There are more people to commit crimes, true, but proportionally there is not more crime. Just more people reporting crime, and better detection methods. More is known about the goings on of paedophiles etc, and when wars and fighting are publicised we forget that many years ago it wasnt possible to broadcast it in the same way. Some crimes people were not encouraged or enabled to come forward to report. 

Life IS precious, whether you choose to bring another life in to the world, or work with children, or care for the sick, or others less fortunate than yourselves, as human beings we are all involved in nuturing life....


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

I never wanted kids either, I much preferred animals..but when our 1st came along I was absolutely bowled over by him..we didn't want him to be an only one, like we both were, so 3yrs later we had our 2nd..was overwhelmed with love for him too. Ive loved every minute of being a Mum...and Im so proud of the lovely 'men' they've grown up to be...especially proud because theyre big strapping lads, one does MMA, yet theyre everso kind and compassionate to all creatures...job done! lol



SammyJo said:


> Plus - I wouldn't want to bring kids up in the world as it is.


On a gloomy note, neither would I. I wouldn't want to bring children into this world knowing the very real threats to the planet we're facing. My boys are in their 20's now and I worry sick what the future holds for them.

.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

CharleyRogan said:


> When did you decide that you did/didn't want kids?
> 
> I have truly decided that I will never ever ever ever be having children. People tell me I will change my mind, but I'm definitely sure!


Some people choose to have children, some people have unplanned pregnancies, some people choose not to have children and some people cannot have children for medical reasons.

I always wanted two children, unfortunately that wasn't meant to be but against all the odds I had a boy. I re-marreid and have been blessed with a total of four children two boys and two girls. All now grown up and I am a proud grandparent of three grandchildren, two boys and a girl.

For me I love children, both me and hubby run a Karate Club (newly opened as we recently moved home), we have been teaching for just over 20 years. Yesterday I invited a neighbours two grandchildren to come and see the rabbits who were on the front lawn. I just told the children to ask their mum and to tell her where they are. As they were leaving I told them to tell their mum they are back.

I find babies are little miricles, children are inquisitive, teenagers are challenging.

Parenting isn't for everyone.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

ozrex said:


> It's NOT an evil world. There is evil in the world but there's FAR more good.
> 
> A small number of people were involved in killing that poor soldier. That was evil, pure evil. How many people showed great courage in speaking to the killers and tackling them? How many people have expressed sincere grief for what has happened and brought flowers, sent messages of consolation and honestly tried to support his family?
> 
> ...


Well said, and I agree to an extent. It IS a beautiful world, and actually, I DO spend a lot of time studying shape, structure, and colours of flowers, the changing colour of the sky, with or without clouds. I sometimes stare at the blue sky so much I think I can just about see the blueness getting deeper, I'm in awe of the changing colours of trees, I'm fascinated by nature - it's breathtakingly beautiful. You don't have to be a parent - or WANT to be a parent - to appreciate the finer things this world has to offer, so if it annoys you that even your own mother wouldn't want to be bringing up children nowadays, your insinuation that only parents can appreciate the beauty of nature, or even the finer points of humanity, annoys me.

Yet I am another who wouldn't want to bring a child into this world. The world is beautiful DESPITE humanity - not because of it. Any other species as destructive and potentially devastating as we are would be called a virus and Scientists would be trying to wipe it out.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

LinznMilly said:


> Well said, and I agree to an extent. It IS a beautiful world, and actually, I DO spend a lot of time studying shape, structure, and colours of flowers, the changing colour of the sky, with or without clouds. I sometimes stare at the blue sky so much I think I can just about see the blueness getting deeper, I'm in awe of the changing colours of trees, I'm fascinated by nature - it's breathtakingly beautiful. You don't have to be a parent - or WANT to be a parent - to appreciate the finer things this world has to offer, so if it annoys you that even your own mother wouldn't want to be bringing up children nowadays, your insinuation that only parents can appreciate the beauty of nature, or even the finer points of humanity, annoys me.
> 
> Yet I am another who wouldn't want to bring a child into this world. The world is beautiful DESPITE humanity - not because of it. Any other species as destructive and potentially devastating as we are would be called a virus and Scientists would be trying to wipe it out.


Excellent post.

Its the very fact that we are destroying all these wonders of nature..and ultimately ourselves, that I wouldn't want to bring anymore children into this world knowing what I know now...its the reason I dont want to be a grandmother.

.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> Well said, and I agree to an extent. It IS a beautiful world, and actually, I DO spend a lot of time studying shape, structure, and colours of flowers, the changing colour of the sky, with or without clouds. I sometimes stare at the blue sky so much I think I can just about see the blueness getting deeper, I'm in awe of the changing colours of trees, I'm fascinated by nature - it's breathtakingly beautiful. You don't have to be a parent - or WANT to be a parent - to appreciate the finer things this world has to offer, so if it annoys you that even your own mother wouldn't want to be bringing up children nowadays, your insinuation that only parents can appreciate the beauty of nature, or even the finer points of humanity, annoys me.
> 
> Yet I am another who wouldn't want to bring a child into this world. The world is beautiful DESPITE humanity - not because of it. Any other species as destructive and potentially devastating as we are would be called a virus and Scientists would be trying to wipe it out.


I couldn't agree more with this. You've hit nail on head with what humanity is. The world would be so much more beautiful if we all weren't here.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

The only way to change the way how 'evil' the current world is, is to teach the next generation! By teaching them what is right, including how to look after the planet, is the only way we can reverse what has been done.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

WelshOneEmma said:


> The only way to change the way how 'evil' the current world is, is to teach the next generation! By teaching them what is right, including how to look after the planet, is the only way we can reverse what has been done.


Agree we should be teaching our children the importance of the natural world. But our generation needs to take responsibility now before its too late, not leaving a mess for our children to try to clean up.

People who vote for political parties who put the natural world at the bottom of their agenda can hardly preach about the importance of caring for the planet...that's seems so hypocritical to me. Time is fast running out for much of our flora and fauna, we have to act now. I don't want to leave future generations with a degraded world because we made other less important issues of the day a priority.


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

Tolkien rocks 

Also:
Frodo: I can't do this, Sam.
Sam: I know. It's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here. But we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.
Frodo: What are we holding onto, Sam?
Sam: *That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for*.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Tolkien rocks
> 
> Also:
> Frodo: I can't do this, Sam.
> ...


Oh I love that bit. I always, always cry at that scene. 
Sam's Speech from The Two Towers: There's some good in this world, Mr Frodo - YouTube


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

It's a weird question, I don't want children and I'm not sure exactly why, I have no moral reasons for it, no specific objections if I wanted to I'd cope with the inconvenience etc...but I just don't want to! I don't want them. I actually can't think of much that appeals to me less!


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> The only way to change the way how 'evil' the current world is, is to teach the next generation! By teaching them what is right, including how to look after the planet, is the only way we can reverse what has been done.


Unfortunately, it's a bit late to reverse what has been done to this planet. And packing more people into an already overcrowded box is not going to un-ring that bell.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Toby Tyler said:


> Unfortunately, it's a bit late to reverse what has been done to this planet. And packing more people into an already overcrowded box is not going to un-ring that bell.


fine, be negative and miserable and not try to make any changes that would be a positive impact.

whilst you are sitting there being all glass half empty i will get on with teaching my daughter about the good in life and our responsibilities to the planet.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> fine, be negative and miserable and not try to make any changes that would be a positive impact.
> 
> whilst you are sitting there being all glass half empty i will get on with teaching my daughter about the good in life and our responsibilities to the planet.


I'm hardly miserable.  I just decided for many reasons not to bring children into this world. I do make a positive impact with the choices I make and make a conscious effort try to leave the world a better place than I found it. I just don't need to bring kids into the world in order to do it.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

WelshOneEmma said:


> *fine, be negative and miserable and not try to make any changes that would be a positive impact.*
> whilst you are sitting there being all glass half empty i will get on with teaching my daughter about the good in life and our responsibilities to the planet.


So only parents can change the world?


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

LinznMilly said:


> So only parents can change the world?


where did I say only parents could do it? i just said that that particular individual was being miserable and going on about how evil the world was etc.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> where did I say only parents could do it? i just said that that particular individual was being miserable and going on about how evil the world was etc.


What? Being realistic is hardly being miserable. I have not "gone on" about how evil the world is. 

But I suppose it's the same mindset that people need to breed in order to be happy.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Toby Tyler said:


> What? Being realistic is hardly being miserable. I have not "gone on" about how evil the world is.
> 
> But I suppose it's the same mindset that people need to breed in order to be happy.


whatever, i'm out. I have said from the start I have no issue about those not wanting kids, yet its funny they seem to have issue with those of us that choose to "breed to be happy" as you so nicely put it.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> whatever, i'm out. I have said from the start I have no issue about those not wanting kids, yet its funny they seem to have issue with those of us that choose to "breed to be happy" as you so nicely put it.


Yet you seem to be very offended by people who for various reasons choose not to have children and call them negative and miserable.  If that makes you feel better about your choice than by all means be my guest.


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

I didn't breed to be happy 
It was because I was at a place where I felt incredibly fortunate and happy that I chose to have children and share that love and happiness with children of my own. So far it has been the single biggest joy of my life, watching my children grow, and discover, and learn. But that's me, I don't expect everyone to feel the same


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

WelshOneEmma said:


> where did I say only parents could do it? i just said that that particular individual was being miserable and going on about how evil the world was etc.


It's not what you said, but it's what you're implying by the bit I quoted in bold in my last post.



WelshOneEmma said:


> whatever, i'm out. I have said from the start I have no issue about those not wanting kids, yet its funny they seem to have issue with those of us that choose to "breed to be happy" as you so nicely put it.


It's not about you choosing to have kids, it's about the way your posts (and others) come across. I won't take offence at anyone who chooses to have kids - that's their perogative. However, when I see posts like yours, which seem to _imply _that only parents can change the world for the better (having children, bringing them up to respect nature, bringing them up to be model citizens, etc), or that seem to _imply _ that only parents can see the good/beautiful things this world has to offer, then yes, I will take issue with that, because it comes across as patronising to those of us who have decided to take a different opinion and try to change the world *in our lifetime* rather than leaving it to the next generation to sort out within thiers.

In a way, your posts can be as offensive to us, as Tinks posts are to you.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

ouesi said:


> I didn't breed to be happy
> It was because I was at a place where I felt incredibly fortunate and happy that I chose to have children and share that love and happiness with children of my own. So far it has been the single biggest joy of my life, watching my children grow, and discover, and learn.* But that's me, I don't expect everyone to feel the same *


That's great and the way it should be. It's too bad more people don't approach it with this attitude.

No one has said anywhere on here people should or shouldn't have children. Where did that even come from? It's all a matter of personal choice. And someone's _personal_ choice not to have them hardly makes them a miserable or negative person.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> That's great and the way it should be. It's too bad more people don't approach it with this attitude.
> 
> No one has said anywhere on here people should or shouldn't have children. Where did that even come from? It's all a matter of personal choice. And someone's _personal_ choice not to have them hardly makes them a miserable or negative person.


There are numerous posts in this thread saying otherwise unfortunately.

At least we're happy with our decisions in life even if others are not


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> At least we're happy with our decisions in life even if others are not


Yet those who seem to know us far better than we know ourselves and tell us how we _should _feel are somehow going to change the world.


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

I think it's human nature to second guess yourself when someone makes a choice that's the polar opposite of your own. 
And I also think it's human nature to feel at the very least annoyed with the person who makes you second guess yourself, or feel the need to justify, or defend your choices.

But in the end we have to trust that each of us has our own journey to take, and while no one's journey is going to be exactly alike, it's exactly the right journey for that person.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

CharleyRogan said:


> When did you decide that you did/didn't want kids?
> 
> I have truly decided that I will never ever ever ever be having children. People tell me I will change my mind, but I'm definitely sure!


My youngest daughter always said she didn't want kids, didn't like them at all and would never want one. She is over from Australia on a visit and informed me today that they are seriously considering having a baby before it is too late. She is 36 next month, so I suppose she is realising that the decision will be taken away from her if she waits any longer.

It is all very well deciding you are not going to have any, but once you don't have the choice any more that is another thing.

So seems I might be a grannie again - my other daughter's children are 22 and 20 - but I am not sure how I feel about it.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

Toby Tyler said:


> Yet those who seem to know us far better than we know ourselves and tell us how we _should _feel are somehow going to change the world.


PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I HAVE STATED THAT YOU ARE WRONG FOR NOT WANTING KIDS?!

I have throughout this thread said that whilst I have always wanted kids I have no problem with those who didn't, its just not something I understand myself, same as I don't understand having spiders for pets. Nothing wrong with either but not for me.

I, along with a few others, questioned someone commenting how they HATE kids but never have I said not wanting kids is wrong. For the record i would also query the personality of someone who hated animals as well. It just gives an insight into their personality.

I also stated that in order to try to fix some of the worlds problems we need to educate today's children. I NEVER said only the children of the future could fix it and that people without children couldn't make a difference. Stop putting words in my mouth and stop trying to twist everything I say.

ETA: By the way you have been jumping on everything I say and twisting it, for the record I have no interest in knowing you or having any input into your life.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

WelshOneEmma said:


> PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I HAVE STATED THAT YOU ARE WRONG FOR NOT WANTING KIDS?!
> 
> I, along with a few others, questioned someone commenting how they HATE kids but never have I said not wanting kids is wrong. For the record i would also query the personality of someone who hated animals as well. It just gives an insight into their personality.
> 
> ETA: By the way you have been jumping on everything I say and twisting it, for the record I have no interest in knowing you or having any input into your life.


You called me negative and miserable and said I was going on and on about this being an evil world among other things.  I simply 'liked' the comment and said that was one of my personal reasons for not wanting children.  You seem to have a real problem with that.

I have never said I hate kids either! I said I enjoy them but they weren't for me.

The only one jumping on people is you when not everyone shares your world views. You said you were done with the thread, but yet you keep coming back to make the same point. We get it. Why are you so defensive about it?


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## Pixieandbow (Feb 27, 2013)

CharleyRogan said:


> I just cannot understand why people would want to have children. How are you supposed to have a job and take kids to school?


I decided I didn't want children when I was 16. I had my oldest when I was 21. I was on my own and terrified. So I had him, went to college, then I went to uni when he was 18 months old. It was hard work but so worth it. I had my youngest when I was 27 after thinking I was all settled for life...but it didn't work out that way and I found myself in an abusive relationship (damn I wish that kind of bloke would wear a neon sign). Currently I'm on my own with two children and a very demanding full time job. I manage to do it all because if I'm honest I love it, I'm always busy but this was all my choice.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> You called me negative and miserable and said I was going on and on about this being an evil world among other things.  I simply 'liked' the comment and said that was one of my personal reasons for not wanting children.  You seem to have a real problem with that.
> 
> I have never said I hate kids either! I said I enjoy them but they weren't for me.
> 
> The only one jumping on people is you when not everyone shares your world views. You said you were done with the thread, but yet you keep coming back to make the same point. We get it. Why are you so defensive about it?


It was me that said I hate kids TT and I got jumped on for it. Apparently that means that people know me and feel they should comment on my personality.

Lesson learned though. When people say they tolerate other's views its only when they match their own


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> It was me that said I hate kids TT and I got jumped on for it. Apparently that means that people know me and feel they should comment on my personality.
> 
> Lesson learned though. When people say they tolerate other's views its only when they match their own


You said you wanted to push a button and end the entire human race iirc? Seemed a bit harsh...


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> It was me that said I hate kids TT and I got jumped on for it. Apparently that means that people know me and feel they should comment on my personality.
> 
> *Lesson learned though. When people say they tolerate other's views its only when they match their own*


Jumped on is a little extreme. People expressed a view that they didnt like it when people said they hated children. They are entitled to that opinion as you are yours. Your contradicting your own statement because your not tolerating people opinions thats its wrong to hate child instead of accepting it like your expecting them to do with your opinion. You have done exactly IMO what you are complaining they did to you

I have seen any personal comments and def dont agree with them.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

ClaireLouise said:


> Jumped on is a little extreme. People expressed a view that they didnt like it when people said they hated children. They are entitled to that opinion as you are yours. Your contradicting your own statement because your not tolerating people opinions thats its wrong to hate child instead of accepting it like your expecting them to do with your opinion. You have done exactly IMO what you are complaining they did to you
> 
> I have seen any personal comments and def dont agree with them.


I have no problem with people saying that they don't understand my view but to imply that hating children must equal being a monster who'll do them harm? I don't think that is tolerating.

Jumped on is a bit extreme, I agree. Tinktinkerbell... She got jumped on for having a conflicting view.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> I have no problem with people saying that they don't understand my view but to imply that hating children must equal being a monster who'll do them harm? I don't think that is tolerating.
> 
> Jumped on is a bit extreme, I agree. Tinktinkerbell... She got jumped on for having a conflicting view.


Tinktinkerbell gets that reaction for a reason. Tink's private messages has something to do with that. Hardly innocent. I would say mine and probably a few other people patience has worn thin with Tink due to this so she doesnt always get the best reaction. 
Its not got much to do with tinks opinions its collectively other things from other thread etc


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Not wanting kids is fine. Not being very good with kids is fine (I'm not great with children myself - or people full stop if I'm being honest). But _hating_ them? Picture someone saying they hate the elderly. The disabled. Asian people. Just examples. 'Oh I hate them yeah but I wouldn't do them harm.' That's ok then?!


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## Pixieandbow (Feb 27, 2013)

The thing about kids is they can be annoying little blighters...but unfortunately, like it or not, they are our future


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I don't have kids but will want one or two in the future. I could change my mind but I feel pretty firm on the decision. But first I'm being selfish and wanting to do my own things like see the world, make silly decisions, learn from life experience, try different jobs then save up, hopefully get a nice place, get married and then say I've had my fun and now I'm ready for a family.

Anything could happen and change I know. It may sound quite silly planned out and not everything goes as planned but for now this is how I feel.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

picaresque said:


> Not wanting kids is fine. Not being very good with kids is fine (I'm not great with children myself - or people full stop if I'm being honest). But _hating_ them? Picture someone saying they hate the elderly. The disabled. Asian people. Just examples. 'Oh I hate them yeah but I wouldn't do them harm.' That's ok then?!


There's nothing wrong with hating people as long as it doesn't infringe on your/their lives

Since when do we have to like everyone, that's just stupid


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> There's nothing wrong with hating people as long as it doesn't infringe on your/their lives
> 
> Since when do we have to like everyone, that's just stupid


I don't think Picaresque was saying you have to like anyone but why hate someone if they have done you no harm though? I don't think you can hate something you have no knowledge of. You can be indifferent, even dislike, but hate is a strong word and should never be used without good reason.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> There's nothing wrong with hating people as long as it doesn't infringe on your/their lives


You really think so? Ok then, this is clearly a lost cause.

It's not about having to like everyone, it's about scorning an entire group of people who have done nothing to deserve it.


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

tinktinktinkerbell said:


> There's nothing wrong with hating people as long as it doesn't infringe on your/their lives
> 
> Since when do we have to like everyone, that's just stupid


I think hate is pretty toxic myself...


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I think when people say the hate children they are saying it in a fairly flippant manner or at least that is how I take it, I don't hate kids but I don't particularly like them, I think people are just getting too hung on it.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> I have no problem with people saying that they don't understand my view but to imply that hating children must equal being a monster who'll do them harm? I don't think that is tolerating.
> 
> Jumped on is a bit extreme, I agree. Tinktinkerbell... She got jumped on for having a conflicting view.


To be fair, Tinks can be very abrasive in the way she comes across - not just on this thread, but on others too. That's why she gets people's backs up. Personally, even I think she took it to the extreme (seriously? You'd rather spend your money on a takeaway than your own flesh and blood? ). There's nothing wrong in having an opinion about something, but there's ways to put that viewpoint across without it causing offence.

Tinks reminds me of my 22y/o cousin actually. She can be very abrasive too, and then wonders what she's said/done to deserve the inevitable backlash.


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## Bloodraine5252 (Jan 13, 2013)

MissShelley said:


> I don't think Picaresque was saying you have to like anyone but why hate someone if they have done you no harm though? I don't think you can hate something you have no knowledge of. You can be indifferent, even dislike, but hate is a strong word and should never be used without good reason.


I can't multi quote well on phone so I've just picked your post, apologies.

Is saying hate like using the really bad swear words? (To some people its F others its C etc) at the end of the day its just a word...

MontyMaude I kinda agree with you point. I use the word hate because its easier than saying seriously, seriously dislike them and want as little as possible to do with them.

Linznmilly what's wrong with saying your too selfish as a reason not to want children? Isn't it better to be honest? Remember, we're talking of a nonexistent child. It would be wrong to say it if the child was in existence. That should cause offence and disgust.

Picaresque anybody can hate anybody, its when hate (seriously, seriously dislike then) turns to abuse or victimisation, that's when it becomes a problem.

ClaireLouise I don't check a posters previous history before I'm willing to defend them. I know nothing about Tink I just feel that, abrasive or not, for showing her point of view she shouldn't be set upon (especially comments about her home life etc) That just seemed slightly unfair.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

MissShelley said:


> I don't think Picaresque was saying you have to like anyone but why hate someone if they have done you no harm though? I don't think you can hate something you have no knowledge of. You can be indifferent, even dislike, but hate is a strong word and should never be used without good reason.


I'm not sting something I have no knowledge of


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> To be fair, Tinks can be very abrasive in the way she comes across - not just on this thread, but on others too. That's why she gets people's backs up. Personally, even I think she took it to the extreme (seriously? You'd rather spend your money on a takeaway than your own flesh and blood? ). There's nothing wrong in having an opinion about something, but there's ways to put that viewpoint across without it causing offence.
> 
> Tinks reminds me of my 22y/o cousin actually. She can be very abrasive too, and then wonders what she's said/done to deserve the inevitable backlash.


Tink just disagrees with the majority on virtually every thread. I think it is done to cause a reaction/get attention but quite honestly...I find her posts tiresome on most occasions.


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

LinznMilly said:


> (seriously? You'd rather spend your money on a takeaway than your own flesh and blood? ). .


Of course I would rather spend my on something I want rather than something I don't want


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## tinktinktinkerbell (Nov 15, 2008)

chichi said:


> I think it is done to cause a reaction/get attention


No, no it's not, I give nothing other than my opinion


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Bloodraine5252 said:


> Linznmilly what's wrong with saying your too selfish as a reason not to want children? Isn't it better to be honest? Remember, we're talking of a nonexistent child. It would be wrong to say it if the child was in existence. That should cause offence and disgust..


OK Blooodraine - now you're twisting MY words. Nowhere in my post did I say being too selfish for children, and saying as much openly on a thread, is wrong and/or offensive. That's just self-analysis. I've openly admitted I don't have the patience for kids. I've openly admitted that I think other people's kids are annoying little whatsits. Nobody's slated me for it.

If Tinks had have said she was too selfish, she wouldn't have got the reaction she did. Instead she blamed all bar one her reasons for not wanting kids on the kids - criticising an entire generation for things they (mostly) can't help. Babies can't help it if they smell - that's down to Mum/Dad/other carer. Babies cry because it's their ONLY method of communication until they learn to talk. NOWHERE in Tinks' post did it come across that she understood/accepted this.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I think people are over reacting somewhat to the use of the word "hate"... I think most people who "hate" kids are just irritated and annoyed by them. For example, I wont go to "family" heavy pubs cos there are normally kids running around the place being noisy and their parents being inconsiderate of other diners. I might on these occassions say "ffs I hate kids and their lazy parents!!"

This doesn't mean I am spending every second of my day hating. It doesn't mean I sit and harbour that hatred to an extreme or toxic level. It doesn't mean I would be happy if something bad were to happen of any of the kids or parents involved.

It means I cant be bothered to say "I am intensely irritated by these particular children at this particular time". It is an off the cuff remark and not one to be taken to heart...


Also, If you think someone is a troll, dont feed them the reactions they crave. IE if you think Tink is a troll looking to cause a stir... just ignore her! As they say "Do Not Feed The Troll"


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

grumpy goby said:


> I think people are over reacting somewhat to the use of the word "hate"... I think most people who "hate" kids are just irritated and annoyed by them. For example, I wont go to "family" heavy pubs cos there are normally kids running around the place being noisy and their parents being inconsiderate of other diners. I might on these occassions say "ffs I hate kids and their lazy parents!!"
> 
> This doesn't mean I am spending every second of my day hating. It doesn't mean I sit and harbour that hatred to an extreme or toxic level. It doesn't mean I would be happy if something bad were to happen of any of the kids or parents involved.
> 
> It means I cant be bothered to say "I am intensely irritated by these particular children at this particular time". It is an off the cuff remark and not one to be taken to heart...


I agree. I have often said I hate kids, but in actual fact I would rather not interact with them. I recently went with a friend to visit the Leper Chapel in Cambridge, only to find ourselves waiting outside with a classfull of six year olds. I tend to treat them like I would an adult, so they love me! I was polite to them, spoke to them, but is it beyond the scope of teachers nowadays to tell them not to pick their noses. Bring back Joyce Grenfell.

There has only ever really been a couple of people I have hated and would have been happy to murder if I knew I could get away with it.


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## NoSpecialFeaturesHere (Nov 23, 2008)

I've never wanted children. I'm not cut out to be a mother. I suffer from social anxiety so am useless. I have always preferred animals anyway, and will always have them to appease my mothering instincts. If in the future I should get braver, I wouldn't mind fostering a child that needs me. But it'd have to like animals! lol.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> My youngest daughter always said she didn't want kids, didn't like them at all and would never want one. She is over from Australia on a visit and informed me today that they are seriously considering having a baby before it is too late. She is 36 next month, so I suppose she is realising that the decision will be taken away from her if she waits any longer.
> 
> It is all very well deciding you are not going to have any, but once you don't have the choice any more that is another thing.
> 
> So seems I might be a grannie again - my other daughter's children are 22 and 20 - but I am not sure how I feel about it.


Ime sure you will get used to the idea, ive just had my 2 grandaughters 16month and 6 weeks, oh ime glad i didnt have my children when i was older.....ime shattered.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I think in that sense it is different. My mum had two daughters and she has been there at the birth of our first children, been involved in a lot of the upbringing. You don't get that as much with a son as lets be honest, when you are going through all the 'attractiveness' of labour etc you are usually ok with your mum their but not your partners. I know I wouldnt have had my partners mum, if she were alive, in the room with me.
> 
> but nobody should have children if they don't want to and no where have I said they should.


I have only got a son so I hope thats not true for everybody  Not that I would want to be there at the birth lol


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> I have only got a son so I hope thats not true for everybody  Not that I would want to be there at the birth lol


The last person I would have wanted at the birth of my kids was my mother. I can imagine her, turning her nose up at everything and asking the midwife stupid questions! Not on your life.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> The last person I would have wanted at the birth of my kids was my mother. I can imagine her, turning her nose up at everything and asking the midwife stupid questions! Not on your life.


I was worried when mine was there, but she was really good actually. it has brought us closer together.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

WelshOneEmma said:


> I was worried when mine was there, but she was really good actually. it has brought us closer together.


I am glad you have that sort of relationship. Ever since I can remember, if my mother saw a heavily pregnant woman she would say: Who wants to see her with her belly up her nose! Would you have wanted someone like that at your children's births?

I think she believed that women should stay home once it showed, like in Victorian times.

She also told me that she couldn't have stood my dad there when she was having kids, because she used to think it was his fault she was having them.

Now you all know why I am so warped:blink:


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> I am glad you have that sort of relationship. Ever since I can remember, if my mother saw a heavily pregnant woman she would say: Who wants to see her with her belly up her nose! Would you have wanted someone like that at your children's births?
> 
> I think she believed that women should stay home once it showed, like in Victorian times.
> 
> ...


Yep, I can see why you didnt want her there!

My mum used to say how huge I was all the time (she has a real thing about being fat) but to be fair, I was massive, especially at the end. I was all up front though. She did say she didnt want to be at my birth (she passed out when my sister had her first) but when I went into labour she was really good. I did have to go to theatre so she wasn't there for that but she followed the baby straight up to SCBU and stayed with her.

I never had a great relationship with my mum but that has helped make it better. But no, I wouldn't have wanted your mum there with that attitude. I loved being pregnant (apart from the SPD) and don't think it should be hidden. Its part of life!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

WelshOneEmma said:


> Yep, I can see why you didnt want her there!
> 
> My mum used to say how huge I was all the time (she has a real thing about being fat) but to be fair, I was massive, especially at the end. I was all up front though. She did say she didnt want to be at my birth (she passed out when my sister had her first) but when I went into labour she was really good. I did have to go to theatre so she wasn't there for that but she followed the baby straight up to SCBU and stayed with her.
> 
> I never had a great relationship with my mum but that has helped make it better. But no, I wouldn't have wanted your mum there with that attitude. I loved being pregnant (apart from the SPD) and don't think it should be hidden. Its part of life!


Well, if a man loved you like they pretend to, they wouldn't want you to do "that". Only loose women actually want sex, not decent ones. No wonder my dad found himself a fancy woman!


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Well, if a man loved you like they pretend to, they wouldn't want you to do "that". *Only loose women actually want sex*, not decent ones. No wonder my dad found himself a fancy woman!


haha, I must be a very loose woman then!


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Is it the modern way then to have your mum at the birth with you?


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

My mum wanted to be at the birth of one of mine but I couldn't get my head round it and it never happened. I was with my oldest daughter when she gave birth and it was amazing and now I feel guilty that I didn't give my mum that privilege. She has been gone for nearly thirteen years and I wish I had let her be there.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Firedog said:


> My mum wanted to be at the birth of one of mine but I couldn't get my head round it and it never happened. I was with my oldest daughter when she gave birth and it was amazing and now I feel guilty that I didn't give my mum that privilege. She has been gone for nearly thirteen years and I wish I had let her be there.


I find it a bit weird I mean you wouldn't want your dad there so why your mum  Don't have a daughter so maybe would feel differently if I did, think only time I wouldn't think it strange is if daughter was alone


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## lynnenagle (Mar 15, 2013)

My mum was there at the birth of my first 2. My OH was working away with my first, i thought he'd be useless when he was there for number 2 so i took my mum 2 but he was great so it was just the two of us when i had number 3.

At the time of giving birth i didn't care who was there but with my first i didn't have anyone else and i was very nervous before it. Turned out great. 
I wouldn't ask my daughter if i could be there if she ever gives birth but i wouldn't say no if i was asked


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## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> I find it a bit weird I mean you wouldn't want your dad there so why your mum  Don't have a daughter so maybe would feel differently if I did, think only time I wouldn't think it strange is if daughter was alone


I would not have wanted my mum present when I gave birth. I didn`t even want my husband, he was ill at the time so I told them not to phone him until it was all over. I would not want to be present if my daughter ever gives birth, if it was something she really wanted then yes I would be there for her but it is not something I would be really hoping to be asked to do!


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> Is it the modern way then to have your mum at the birth with you?


I don't think it's particularly modern, if anything is it not something that happened years ago before the men attended??



DoodlesRule said:


> I find it a bit weird I mean you wouldn't want your dad there so why your mum  Don't have a daughter so maybe would feel differently if I did, think only time I wouldn't think it strange is if daughter was alone


but the relationship with a mum is different to that of a dad. I would quite happily sit with my boobs out when breast feeding in front of my mum whilst in front of my dad I covered up more. Whilst still a little body shy, when it came down to it I wanted my mum there too incase there was anything my husband couldn't handle as lets be honest, labour is not the nicest is it?!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> I find it a bit weird I mean you wouldn't want your dad there so why your mum  Don't have a daughter so maybe would feel differently if I did, think only time I wouldn't think it strange is if daughter was alone


You might find it even weirder that my 15 year old brother delivered me. He was the only one available and nobody had phones in those days. She, like me, had babies very quickly.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Just to be clear, I don't mean weird in a nasty or critical way  just I don't know of anyone whose mum has been there only the father of baby so I was surprised thats all


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Just to be clear, I don't mean weird in a nasty or critical way  just I don't know of anyone whose mum has been there only the father of baby so I was surprised thats all


I know what you mean because that is how I felt but I just felt bad that I couldn't give my mother the one thing she asked for but I didn't want her with me.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

It's been the norm since forever- in most cultures it is standard to have women close to the mother-to-be, to be present for the birth- or in less developed parts of world, actually deliver the baby! 

I'd definitely want my mum there. I'm in my late 20's but when things go wrong, or when I end up in hospital I always still want my mum! I daresay I'll feel like that till I'm orphaned! 

How many people are allowed? Ideally I'd have OH and sister also there!


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

jenniferx said:


> It's been the norm since forever- in most cultures it is standard to have women close to the mother-to-be, to be present for the birth- or in less developed parts of world, actually deliver the baby!
> 
> I'd definitely want my mum there. I'm in my late 20's but when things go wrong, or when I end up in hospital I always still want my mum! I daresay I'll feel like that till I'm orphaned!
> 
> How many people are allowed? Ideally I'd have OH and sister also there!


It depends on where you do it. I had Emilia in hospital and their policy was 2. If you had the baby at home though you could probably have more.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> Just to be clear, I don't mean weird in a nasty or critical way  just I don't know of anyone whose mum has been there only the father of baby so I was surprised thats all


I had my best mate at all three of mine! I had one hospital birth and she was there all through the night and she was my rock all the way through..i was losing it towards the end because id been in labour for three days and was shattered and she kept me going! 
Second was a homebirth again she was there all through the night, again oh was useless! She marched me on the spot for hours to get him shifted and kept me in the zone as it were. 
Thirs another home birth and again she was there all through the night, she rubbed my feet when they were swelling infront of our eyes, she looked after the older two while OH took a 'front line' role and he was amazing that time.

I honestly would hate to be giving birth without her there, we have a kinda special bond now, she was my moms best friend before i lost my mom 8yrs ago and she has become one of my closest friend, my rock! I would go to the ends of the earth for that woman and i feel blessed that she was able to be there and be the one of the first to hold my babies. 
I wouldnt have had it any other way..to me shes family.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

WelshOneEmma said:


> It depends on where you do it. I had Emilia in hospital and their policy was 2. If you had the baby at home though you could probably have more.


Yes, you can have a house full of people as long as the midwife has room to lat out all the essentials and the mother has room to birth how she wants to there is no limit to people for a home birth.


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## loubyfrog (Feb 29, 2012)

Wish I'd had someone as supportive as your best friend with me HB when giving birth to my Daughter.Just had hubby in the room....he decided just when daugther was coming that he had to go home to feed the cats 

Both me and the midwife effed and geffed at him and he promptly sat back down..... 16 years later and i still won't let him forget it


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

harley bear said:


> Yes, you can have a house full of people as long as the midwife has room to lat out all the essentials and the mother has room to birth how she wants to there is no limit to people for a home birth.


When my husband was born, at home, their dog wouldn't come out from under the bed. Apparently the midwife said he wasn't doing any harm and he would only cry if they forced him out. What a sensible woman!



loubyfrog said:


> Wish I'd had someone as supportive as your best friend with me HB when giving birth to my Daughter.Just had hubby in the room....he decided just when daugther was coming that he had to go home to feed the cats
> 
> Both me and the midwife effed and geffed at him and he promptly sat back down..... 16 years later and i still won't let him forget it


My husband was there at my first, and kept apologising every time I swore. I wish I hadn't bothered.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

loubyfrog said:


> Wish I'd had someone as supportive as your best friend with me HB when giving birth to my Daughter.Just had hubby in the room....he decided just when daugther was coming that he had to go home to feed the cats
> 
> Both me and the midwife effed and geffed at him and he promptly sat back down..... 16 years later and i still won't let him forget it


I really couldnt have done without her! When i was in hospital with my first and his head was crowning i heard my Oh sitting in the corner crying saying...'dad i can see the head its AMAZING i cant stop crying!' I wanted to shove that phone so far up his @rse!



newfiesmum said:


> When my husband was born, at home, their dog wouldn't come out from under the bed. Apparently the midwife said he wasn't doing any harm and he would only cry if they forced him out. What a sensible woman!


I was lucky my midwife didnt refuse to do my home birth! First midwife name Oh let her in and we were all upstairs...the second mw came and i dont know what possessed the dopey mare to just walk in without knocking  well as you can imagine vegas went spare! and well she nearly pooped herself! I bet she never walked in another house without knocking!


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## Velcro (May 20, 2013)

my mum was at the birth of mine by accident. poor woman only came to drop my bag off and I wouldn't let her leave lol

She went every single shade of green you can imagine. Apparently it's not great from the 'business end' and she would quite happily never have to go through that again hahaha


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I was with my daughter when she delivered my grandson, it seemed to be more of a miracle than when I had her...Although she did tell me "Mom why did you ever tell me you had natural childbirth with no drugs" she had decided if I could do it so could she...lol she was 9 lbs 9 at birth and her son was 9 lbs 5...


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