# Puppy crying like crazy BUT only when we leave!



## paulareno (Jul 10, 2017)

we have very clever poodle - 5mth old and she is great BUT she already figure it out when people actually leave the house v when we are just in other room. 

she goes crazy howling when we leave. we trying the "fake leave" training, even over the weekend when we are off work we go for and hour or so out so she knows that humans are not always around. 

she is absolutely fine when we are in a bathroom. in other room where she cant see us BUT when we leave - she goes bonkers.

she does not settle (we have puppy camera so we can see what is going on) she gets hot and bothered when howling - believe it or not l am actually considering no bark collar on her to stop this :///

posts online have mixed advice - should we score her for howling? storm in a room and tell her off? ignore? 

we are now stopping her from following us everywhere. she shadows us every minute of the day. we make her "stay" and wait when we are in a bathroom so she knows she cannot always go with us. that seems to help a bit. 

but overall its a very annoying issue.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

You need to take tiny steps with her.

Leaving her suddenly for an hour is too much, too soon.

The idea is to leave very briefly, returning *before *she gets anxious. You want a pup that has no reason to get anxious who learns they are safe alone and you will always be back and pleased to see you.

Absolutely DO NOT get cross or tell her off or use a Bark Collar! That is cruel, won't teach her to be happy when left and very likely to make her worse.

Would you hit a baby or child if it is scared or upset?

Look at positively.com and Kikopup for some advice.

Patience and kindness is the key.


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## paulareno (Jul 10, 2017)

she is 5 months and been staying home for 2,3 or even 4 hours before. As a smaller puppy she was just asleep for hours not noticing anyone in or out. Trust me puppy cam helped a lot to monitor her behavior.

BUT NOW she is bigger and the issue developed suddenly. people saying to make her comfortable, leave treats, leave radio on - all boxes ticked but seems pointless.

she eats her kong - howls - eats it - howls. interchangeable.

returning BEFORE she gets anxious? its tricky since she is anxious when doors are closing.

my neighbors have 10yo pointer and never left him alone because "he doesn't like it"... thats a bit stupid right?

she is very very clever dog! and knows many tricks already, enjoys training, good on recall...but on staying home alone = totally bonkers crazy pupp, no brains at all.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Some puppies can completely shut down when left..it's not that they are comfortable with it at a young age.. overwhelmed but not comfortable.

Young puppies also sleep a lot, sometimes this coincides with being able to be left. 

Now at 5 months your puppy has more alert times naturally, not so overwhelmed and coupled with her breed being one of the most intelligent...this is causing a problem.

Poodles as I am sure you know need a lot of mental stimulation or they go stir crazy, they are very active busy dogs. This is what many people forget when purchasing them, they see an adorable puppy but they are so much more than that.

What are you doing with your puppy prior to leaving? Is your puppy having a walk, a good ten minutes of trick training that you say she enjoys to throughly stimulate her, and relax her. She needs this before you leave.

Have a look at the sticky on separation anxiety..at 5 months she could get a lot worse as she's still very young, and your intelligent puppy may find her 'own job' to do whilst you are out. This may cause damage to anything she finds interesting, which will mortify you.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2017)

Well you can just unconsider the cruel no bark collars. Leave for 1 minute. Gradually increase it. Leaving a tiny pup for 4 hours is leaving a tiny pup for far too long.


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## Maggyd (Mar 4, 2017)

Where do you leave your puppy when you go out? at this young age I always used a crate with their bed inside, you can start leaving the door open once they are used to it.
Make sure when you come back in after leaving, just walk past don't start making a fuss neither praising or chastising dogs live in the moment. when you have things put away THEN stroke them , let them come out and greet you , they have to know you are coming back , once they get that they will learn to relax, most dogs will bark at some time when you leave them, whether it is someone walking by or coming to your door.

My Son bought a citronella collar to stop his lab barking (expensive) they only work at first once they are used to them they just flinch even before they squirt lol.

Your little one will soon stop, please be patient and most of all DON'T punish.


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## paulareno (Jul 10, 2017)

yes we are ignoring her when we are back until she calms down and its on "all fours". she gets that as well  stops jumping quite quick. 
yeah...l guess patience is the keyword here


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Maggyd said:


> My Son bought a citronella collar to stop his lab barking (expensive) they only work at first once they are used to them they just flinch even before they squirt lol.


Please don't use one of these. If the dog flinches, it is clearly unhappy. If you think.abput how sensitive a dog's nose is, and how strong citronella is, it must be awful for the dog. And the smell lingers long after the act the dog was 'punished' for.



Maggyd said:


> DON'T punish


please realise how punishing these collars are.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2017)

Maggyd said:


> Where do you leave your puppy when you go out? at this young age I always used a crate with their bed inside, you can start leaving the door open once they are used to it.
> Make sure when you come back in after leaving, just walk past don't start making a fuss neither praising or chastising dogs live in the moment. when you have things put away THEN stroke them , let them come out and greet you , they have to know you are coming back , once they get that they will learn to relax, most dogs will bark at some time when you leave them, whether it is someone walking by or coming to your door.
> 
> My Son bought a citronella collar to stop his lab barking (expensive) they only work at first once they are used to them they just flinch even before they squirt lol.
> ...


OP don't use a citronella collar either. Anybody who uses anything called a stop bark or spray collar/no bark collar is cruel. Dogs noses are very sensitive and frankly such devices should be illegal. Maggyd you say don't punish well these collars are made to scare and be cruel to dogs.


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

Please please dont use any type of collar. The dog is howling as she anxious being left alone, spraying a already scared dog in the face is a horrible thing to do.

You need to bulid her up to being left very very slowly. leaving (out the front door) and coming straight back in to start with. Dont have a routine before you leave the house [You mentioned she gets anxious when you are closing all the doors] if this is what you do before you leave the house each time, do it and then dont leave. This will help to stop her associate certain things with you leaving the house. Where is she left when you leave her? Do you exersize her before you go out? if so how much? Tired out dogs tend to settle better as all they want to do is sleep.


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## paulareno (Jul 10, 2017)

All those advise here seems like "homeopathic remedy for cancer". It ether works very slow, or not at all.
My results so far - not SO promising.
*
1) going out - coming back x*

we do that. for now doesn't seem to work that well.
all she does is waits next to the doors. we can leave her for maybe 3min with no noise. anything after - howling starts.
*
2) ignoring her x
*
coming back & ignoring like nothing happened = all she does is gets glued to your leg and follows after that, she knows the minute she leave your site you might o out without her
*
3) playing / exercise x
*
she doesn't want to play.

when she sense you are getting ready she just wont play. just sits and watches you. and lm sorry l cannot leave in my ps's so need to put clothes at some point! yes l tried to sit in my jacket and shoes and all like lm not leaving. again. she is just on alert.

l might go for a run with her yes - but then l will have to go back home, take shower, put clothes on. by that time she will be rested and anxious anyway.

The other day we took her doe a bicycle spin (running next to the bike) she did maybe 4 miles in total. after we came back home - she rested for 5 min and got anxious when we left to the shop and she stayed home.

*4) changing routine x
*
on a days when l am working from home - l get dressed and everything like normal day and dont leave. does it work? Not really. She relaxes BUT keeps an eye on me all day. Follows everywhere if l get out of sight.

l can be in my pj's and go to the bin. no routine there - still kicks in with howling like crazy.

*5) reward for being quiet?
*
she is quiet when we are around. doesn't bark at anything. only starts when being alone.

*......so what now....? *


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Have you ever wondered how we learn...how we well and truly learn so we do things like on autopilot?

It's actually a very slow process..we revisit and revisit again and again we may add things as we go along. Do you know what it's slow but it works...

After reading several posts here of yours, and how you think your do and offer quite frankly Draconian practices that can often do more harm than good..but hey they work...yeah they do because they shut down dogs, prevent dogs from giving warning signs in uncomfortable situations.

Trick training is all well and good...but it's actually neither here or there when it comes into dog training unless you can using it in context.

You have even ignored suggestions..no one in their right mind would take such a young puppy for a 4 mile run. It's too much, especially whilst on a bike.

No dog will play unless you build a relationship with them to do so....it takes time and patience. Again something you seem to think is lacking, if she is that glued to you, you have a fantastic start to get her to play but you must be exciting enough. It doesn't just happen overnight.

To say these methods are like 'homepathic cures for cancer' quite frankly is insulting when people who are answering you, giving you advise are very skilled experienced handlers.


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## paulareno (Jul 10, 2017)

about the shocking run we did = l just spend 1h in a park with her (me sitting on a bench) and she was playing with pupps and dogs running around.
the tracker shows she did 3 miles in that time  she is a very energetic dog. not even sleeping right now just playing with toys.


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## bumbarrel (Feb 23, 2017)

There is a difference between running constantly next to a bike:and playing and running around in her own time where she can take a break.


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

You do alot of physical exersize but do you do any mental exersizes with her?

Poodles are very intelligent and they need to be worn out both physically and mentally before they are contented. New games and trick training will go a long way to making sure she i fully tired out. 

Does she get any alone time when you are home or do you let her follow her everywhere? Does she have a safe place to go when you arent in? Our anxious dog loves her crate and will take herself into it when she knows we are leaving.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

paulareno said:


> about the shocking run we did = l just spend 1h in a park with her (me sitting on a bench) and she was playing with pupps and dogs running around.
> the tracker shows she did 3 miles in that time  she is a very energetic dog. not even sleeping right now just playing with toys.


I would be careful not to be overwhelm her with other dogs...

Socialisation with young puppies is more about seeing dogs from a distance and saying, yep they are there. You want a dog neutral dog. Not a puppy left to their own devices without guidance from their owner about what is wrong or right when it comes to interactions...

The more times they practice unruly behaviours towards other dogs...and they will. Puppies are obnoxious...the more they are learning to repeat and carry on. This will not be acceptable with other dogs when they are older, and it's not other dogs who should step in but their owners...puppies seem to have allowance with other dogs and can quite frankly get away with a lot


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## paulareno (Jul 10, 2017)

with that we are very lucky ! we have around 20 dogs in my complex age from 4months to 7 years all nicely behaving and loving each other, 3 live on the same corridor  socialization is top notch ompus


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## paulareno (Jul 10, 2017)

Amelia66 said:


> You do alot of physical exersize but do you do any mental exersizes with her?


totally she is VERY clever gets most tricks in few minutes she is a big geek, newest toy she loves is Trixie Memory trainer :Couchpotato its awesome


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

paulareno said:


> with that we are very lucky ! we have around 20 dogs in my complex age from 4months to 7 years all nicely behaving and loving each other, 3 live on the same corridor  socialization is top notch ompus


That is not socialisation...that is a recipe for disaster...

The best advice anyone can give about socialisation comes from my own vet...

He recommends all puppy owners to socialise their puppies with humans, dogs, cows and horses and all in the same way...

Now if you are happy to send your puppy to meet and great cows in a field and run round with them, and do the same with horses...then more fool you.

The most problematic behaviour in dogs are the so called 'Well socialised' ones. The ones who have free reign, while their owners have a nice chat, and laugh at their antics.. or in your case. Sit on a park bench.

Many people misconstrue dogs vital distress signs as funny, amusing same goes for the total obnoxious bullying behaviour which in a few months time can lead to an overwhelmed dog who has behavioural problems or a total dog obsessed dog, that can fall foul of the law, or can become a statistic of RTA for its desperate need to meet and great others, no matter where they are.

It's such a shame when you have an intelligent breed as a poodle that, you cannot see the wood for the trees, because you know best.


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## Biffo (Mar 14, 2016)

Separation training is exhausting and can take months. It has to be consistent. If your dog is howling, then you have progressed too quickly. 

Separation anxiety is awful, sheer panic and misery for the dog. But it can be trained, not always of course, but generally it can be improved with training. You just need to reinforce to your dog that every time you leave you will come back. If your dog is panicking and howling after 3 minutes, then start at 2 minutes.

There are no quick fixes for this.


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## Marino Tilatti (Jun 16, 2017)

Not only your dog, but all dogs suffer from seperation anxiety if their human companion leaves him alone. This will be developed in your dog behavior because he will be with you most of the time and if u leave him alone all of sudden for quite sometime he thinks that you are away forever. This is common behavior which can be treated .


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## paulareno (Jul 10, 2017)

_lullabydream "That is not socialisation...that is a recipe for disaster..."_

this is the most moronic comment to very healthy "dog pack situation" that we have here.
please stop commenting on my posts because your personal vendetta is not welcomed here, thanks.


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## Sairy (Nov 22, 2016)

paulareno said:


> _lullabydream "That is not socialisation...that is a recipe for disaster..."_
> 
> this is the most moronic comment to very healthy "dog pack situation" that we have here.
> please stop commenting on my posts because your personal vendetta is not welcomed here, thanks.


I very much doubt that there is any personal vendetta going on, unless there is some history here that I don't know about. You just have to be careful to choose playmates wisely and not to let your dog play with every dog it meets otherwise you can land yourself in a situation where your dog spots another dog on a walk, bogs off to go and play with it and you suddenly become invisible. My friend is currently going through this with her dog and it's become a nightmare taking him for a walk. Socialisation is about introducing your pup to a variety of scenarios and allowing the time to adjust and be comfortable in them. Interacting with other dogs from time to time is fine if they are suitable playmates, but is also good to teach your dog to walk past other dogs and ignore them.


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## MiffyMoo (Sep 15, 2015)

paulareno said:


> _lullabydream "That is not socialisation...that is a recipe for disaster..."_
> 
> this is the most moronic comment to very healthy "dog pack situation" that we have here.
> please stop commenting on my posts because your personal vendetta is not welcomed here, thanks.


I'm afraid you're being quite rude to someone who is giving you the benefit of years of experience.

She is absolutely correct, the last thing you want is a dog who is a) unable to read other dog's body language, as that can end up being very, very bad if she harasses the wrong dog; and b) a dog who is incapable of walking past another dog without being a total pain in the ****. Your ultimate goal ought to be a dog neutral dog, who is respectful of other dogs and always looks to you for permission to go and play. Your job is to keep her safe


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## Biffo (Mar 14, 2016)

OP, 
That is an extremely I'll mannered and rude response to Lullaby. 

Lullaby has no axe to grind here. The advice they gave was constructive and useful, and I agree with it.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I agree, very rude and un-necessary. You've had some good advice and thrown it back at us. Closing this thread, an apology would not go amiss.:Locktopic


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2017)

paulareno said:


> _lullabydream "That is not socialisation...that is a recipe for disaster..."_
> 
> this is the most moronic comment to very healthy "dog pack situation" that we have here.
> please stop commenting on my posts because your personal vendetta is not welcomed here, thanks.


Don't be so rude.


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