# Another irresponsible breeder



## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

I thought selling a kitten at 8 weeks old without innoculations was against GCCF rules?

Have spotted an ad where the breeder is selling a Ragdoll queen on active (possibly pregnant) and also a kitten at 8 weeks and gives a price without the vaccinations.

Its breeders like this that give everyone a bad name...................


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## emmar (Aug 1, 2008)

makes me so mad 

poor cat


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

Report them to the GCCF


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

be sneaky - get in contact as if you wanted to buy the kitten - get all the details then go straight to the GCCF


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Angeli said:


> I thought selling a kitten at 8 weeks old without innoculations was against GCCF rules?


It's against their recommendations, which is a rather different matter.

Liz


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

* thats Disgraceful *


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm glad this has been brought up - if you've read my other posts my mother in law (Sue) has just reserved two kittens but before these two she was offered two more who hadnt (and werent!) going to be vaccinated, even though they knew they would be living with another cat!?

So, is selling pedigree kittens without vaccinations not the norm?


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

mybabykitties said:


> So, is selling pedigree kittens without vaccinations not the norm?


No, the norm is that pedigree kittens are sold after they've had their vaccinations. In Sweden some breeders (not many though) sell kittens after they've had one shot and the owner then has to take the kitten to their own vet for the second shot (also a good opportunity to have your own vet check the kitten).


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

mybabykitties said:


> I'm glad this has been brought up - if you've read my other posts my mother in law (Sue) has just reserved two kittens but before these two she was offered two more who hadnt (and werent!) going to be vaccinated, even though they knew they would be living with another cat!?
> 
> So, is selling pedigree kittens without vaccinations not the norm?


No - definately not!! You will find this with moggies but not pedigrees. Moggies leave roughly around 8 weeks and pedigrees at 13 weeks, by which time all vaccinations and health checks would already have been carried out.
I would definately question the breeder and ask why they are not going to be getting them vaccinated - there really is no excuse for it!
Unless they are breeders who are not playing by the book and dont provide pedigree papers or vaccinations with their kittens - these are known as Back Yard Breeders!!  And should be well avoided!


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## Aud's_Mum (Aug 4, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> No - definately not!! You will find this with moggies but not pedigrees. Moggies leave roughly around 8 weeks and pedigrees at 13 weeks, by which time all vaccinations and health checks would already have been carried out.
> I would definately question the breeder and ask why they are not going to be getting them vaccinated - there really is no excuse for it!
> Unless they are breeders who are not playing by the book and dont provide pedigree papers or vaccinations with their kittens - these are known as Back Yard Breeders!!  And should be well avoided!


She isnt getting them from the breeder that was selling without vaccs - the ones she has reserved are fully vaccinated etc.


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Unfortunately there will be some BYB's that are also GCCF registered. All they have to do is get a cat on the active register from somewhere and apply for a prefix and they're in.

Being GCCF registered does not guarantee that the breeder is responsible.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Also the thing is the people who aqquire/buy these kittens some from ignorance and some well for other reasons,whether intentional or not keep these people going,if people were educated even on the bare basics of what to look for etc when choosing a pet be it a cat/kitten pedigree or non pedigree then it would help,even if it put only one unethical breeder out of business..even any that have a prefix,as Angeli says this sometimes counts for nothing and in fact some practice terrible breeding and though i don't condone byb's at least some of them do put the time,care and love into the litters they breedAlso DaisyMay i see what your saying about sites but i think you also have to be aware that all that glitters is not gold and the proof really is in the pudding,or in the catworld the cats/kittsThink like the shopping channels,they can take something really crap and sell it like it's lifechanging,it can be the same with websites,not all but some


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Also the thing is the people who aqquire/buy these kittens some from ignorance and some well for other reasons,whether intentional or not keep these people going,if people were educated even on the bare basics of what to look for etc when choosing a pet be it a cat/kitten pedigree or non pedigree then it would help,even if it put only one unethical breeder out of business..even any that have a prefix,as Angeli says this sometimes counts for nothing and in fact some practice terrible breeding and though i don't condone byb's at least some of them do put the time,care and love into the litters they breedAlso DaisyMay i see what your saying about sites but i think you also have to be aware that all that glitters is not gold and the proof really is in the pudding,or in the catworld the cats/kittsThink like the shopping channels,they can take something really crap and sell it like it's lifechanging,it can be the same with websites,not all but some


Absolutely agree with everything said here!
A snazzy website is definitely no guarantee that the breeder is a good one, and some of the best ones dont have a site at all.


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## Siamese Kelly (Jan 6, 2008)

Angeli said:


> Absolutely agree with everything said here!
> A snazzy website is definitely no guarantee that the breeder is a good one, and some of the best ones dont have a site at all.


Too true,i think it's good though coz it means you have to really,really do your homework and learn your stuffWhich will serve to benefit your chosen breed


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Too true,i think it's good though coz it means you have to really,really do your homework and learn your stuffWhich will serve to benefit your chosen breed


Yes i know what you're saying, but the bad experiences i have had are from people who dont have a website - mainly because they are not organised and cant be bothered to do things properly.
On the other hand I know of good breeders that dont have a website


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Ive had some bad experiences with GCCF breeders I can tell you and with being a breeder to breeder contact and despite me knowing all my stuff, they still try to pull the wool over your eyes.

God knows what some of them get away with when they sell to joe public who hasent done any research.


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Siamese Kelly said:


> Also the thing is the people who aqquire/buy these kittens some from ignorance and some well for other reasons,whether intentional or not keep these people going,if people were educated even on the bare basics of what to look for etc when choosing a pet be it a cat/kitten pedigree or non pedigree then it would help,even if it put only one unethical breeder out of business..even any that have a prefix,as Angeli says this sometimes counts for nothing and in fact some practice terrible breeding and though i don't condone byb's at least some of them do put the time,care and love into the litters they breedAlso DaisyMay i see what your saying about sites but i think you also have to be aware that all that glitters is not gold and the proof really is in the pudding,or in the catworld the cats/kittsThink like the shopping channels,they can take something really crap and sell it like it's lifechanging,it can be the same with websites,not all but some


Well said hunny!!!


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

I think that you have all been highlighting some interesting things about choosing a breeder - its a good thing to go and see the kittens if you plan to acquire one. Go and visit plenty - visit cat shows too - take time and don't be in a rush. 

Ask a lot of questions - most breeders will be delighted to give the answers and show off their kittens. Website or not, registered or not, the real answers will be presented in all their glory when you actually visit and see what you have in front of you. 

As Saffron says, there are breeders with shiney magic websites, (and may I add, those who breed loads of kittens and even who have cattery names/breed prefixes, show rosettes/gongs/titles etc) whose kittens are not up to much and others without websites, possibly no breed prefix and who may not even show but who have adorable, robustly healthy, very pretty kittens who could easily win some respectable rosettes if they wanted to (but choose not to) and who are very loving, caring breeders. 

In short, take the time and trouble to visit places/people. Its worthwhile.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

Rraa said:


> I think that you have all been highlighting some interesting things about choosing a breeder - its a good thing to go and see the kittens if you plan to acquire one. Go and visit plenty - visit cat shows too - take time and don't be in a rush.
> 
> Ask a lot of questions - most breeders will be delighted to give the answers and show off their kittens. Website or not, registered or not, the real answers will be presented in all their glory when you actually visit and see what you have in front of you.
> 
> ...


Good point Raa about shows. All my cats come from good lines and I have a fantastic mentor behind me - but im not a show goer. This doesnt mean my kittens are not as good as someone who does attend plenty of shows. I just make sure that matings are done with champions whom have a strong champion ancestry.
I will be attending shows but not regularly


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

why do you have to mate to a champion? don't mean you get champion kittens.


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## audrey1824 (Aug 1, 2008)

Rraa said:


> I think that you have all been highlighting some interesting things about choosing a breeder - its a good thing to go and see the kittens if you plan to acquire one. Go and visit plenty - visit cat shows too - take time and don't be in a rush.
> 
> Ask a lot of questions - most breeders will be delighted to give the answers and show off their kittens. Website or not, registered or not, the real answers will be presented in all their glory when you actually visit and see what you have in front of you.
> 
> ...


And some of those websites have names which are not real prefixes, they are just names people have thought up to make their website look good.

Audrey Magical -Magical cats.
Friendly Felines :: Index
Friendly Felines Show Results.................The place other sites come to get their results! :: Index


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

fluffypurrs said:


> why do you have to mate to a champion? don't mean you get champion kittens.


I dont HAVE to - and i never said it meant i get champion kittens! LOL 
Im not daft u know


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2008)

she has a pregnant cat with an 8 week old kitten this is out of order as much as not vaccinating them isnt it ? a cat needs to get back into condition after weaning kittens ffs


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

audrey1824 said:


> And some of those websites have names which are not real prefixes, they are just names people have thought up to make their website look good.
> 
> Audrey Magical -Magical cats.
> Friendly Felines :: Index
> Friendly Felines Show Results.................The place other sites come to get their results! :: Index


Not even necessarily just on websites, some give themselves a nickname without even a website and use that when people ask but use the admin prefix's through the governing body xx


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

xxSaffronxx said:


> I dont HAVE to - and i never said it meant i get champion kittens! LOL
> Im not daft u know


LOL! it's always nice to know your girls been with a winning boy though i'm sure  xx


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

LousKoonz said:


> LOL! it's always nice to know your girls been with a winning boy though i'm sure  xx


My point exactly


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## twinkles (Aug 8, 2008)

siamese candrika said:


> she has a pregnant cat with an 8 week old kitten this is out of order as much as not vaccinating them isnt it ? a cat needs to get back into condition after weaning kittens ffs


Who are you referring to, I'm confused?

x


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

twinkles said:


> Who are you referring to, I'm confused?
> 
> x


me too - confused - thought that this was a general discussion based upon a theme not a "gossip-fest" about someone in particular.

Lucky for me, I do not know (and therefore cannot name) anyone who is as bad but am sure they exist.


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

twinkles said:


> Who are you referring to, I'm confused?
> 
> x





Rraa said:


> me too - confused - thought that this was a general discussion based upon a theme not a "gossip-fest" about someone in particular.
> 
> Lucky for me, I do not know (and therefore cannot name) anyone who is as bad but am sure they exist.


I think she is referring to Angeli's first post


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

I really wish there was a way of stopping these people. ( i wont respect them and call them breeders). but unfortunately the only thing that drives these people is money, its all they are concerned about, they will use there queens like breeding machines with no thought whatsoever as to the health and welfare of the queen or to any kittens born. the laws against these people are to soft, and IMHO they have no place in the world of cat lovers.
rant over....lol..........Chris.


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

raggs said:


> I really wish there was a way of stopping these people. ( i wont respect them and call them breeders). but unfortunately the only thing that drives these people is money, its all they are concerned about, they will use there queens like breeding machines with no thought whatsoever as to the health and welfare of the queen or to any kittens born. the laws against these people are to soft, and IMHO they have no place in the world of cat lovers.
> rant over....lol..........Chris.


I'm alot newer to this than a fair few of you but i've already met at least one myself and i dare say in the future i'll come across more!!
I very much agree on the laws being too soft but i also think it would be great if at least the one's that have prefix's were reported to the governing bodies more often xx
IMHO I have no idea how anyone would make money out of this LOL, i've lost count of how much money i've spent so far and i know and am definitely not bothered about the fact that i have xx
I just love my babies  xx and they're spoilt blooming rotten lol xx
AND if my other half would let me i wouldn't be selling any kittens and i'd keep them all anyway, pmsl xx but he won't, so i can't  lol xx


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## raggs (Aug 3, 2008)

you're so right, the ones with prefix should be reported. but i think its sad to say that these idiots will always be around. when we got our second ragdoll we went to the breeders home and on the day we collected the kitten the woman who had bred these kittens actually had tears in her eyes as we took the kitten from her, it was like she was losing a child , we felt so guilty lol. i would always advise anyone looking for a kitten to plan well ahead, speak to several breeders , do you're homework, that way if you do come across any of these kitten farms they will be easy to spot and avoid.


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

This is the ad I was referring to.
Pedigree Ragdoll kitten

The pregnant queen ad by the same poster has disappeared.


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

raggs said:


> you're so right, the ones with prefix should be reported. but i think its sad to say that these idiots will always be around. when we got our second ragdoll we went to the breeders home and on the day we collected the kitten the woman who had bred these kittens actually had tears in her eyes as we took the kitten from her, it was like she was losing a child , we felt so guilty lol. i would always advise anyone looking for a kitten to plan well ahead, speak to several breeders , do you're homework, that way if you do come across any of these kitten farms they will be easy to spot and avoid.


Similarly with the breeder who let us adopt our MCs. Had to give her a big hug. 

But ...... I have been reading the dog breeding forum and my thoughts are that ethical breeders are often well awareof those breeders who bend the rules.

Unfortunately there is no mechanism to whistle blow with the overseeing national bodies on certain aspects that ethical breeders may consider important - letting kittens go at 8 weeks being an example.

Breeders are the life blood of the national bodies - they are the ones that fund the national bodies. If ethical breeders are in the majority why aren't they driving the reforms that might be needed?


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

That is truly appalling. Makes me so so mad.


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