# Throw me to the Lions. .



## TomCat1 (Dec 22, 2010)

I think Ellie is pregnant.

I have ummed and ahhed about posting this since I really do not want the usual "SPAY YOUR CAT" lectures. The deed is done, lesson learnt. (If anyone wants the backstory .. She had been a 100% housecat with no interest in going out, although she has had the option (no catflaps, the cats are only ever out when we are around) - she has never wanted to go out, and I naively didn't think she would come into call in mid winter, so when she took herself out for an hour or so back in december I didn't think too much of it. . Now she is much more in your face friendly, washing herself more and feels different when you pick her up (the best analagy I can come up with is raw meat before to cooked meat now .. a subtle change) so I am beginning to wonder.) IF she is, she will be 3 weeks gone on Tuesday

I want to know when/if I should be worming and flea treating her while pregnant, what products to use, and when to flea/worm the kittens as I can't find these answers in the archives (and I have trawled through them all. . I know panacur is advised starting at 3 weeks but I'd like it in black and white please)

She is currently on RC/Fish4cats along with applaws/smilla and some felix.

This is the little madam from a while ago - recent pics have just been blurrs  I think she is a blue/cream tortie? maybe smoke too?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

looks like a black tortie, poss smoke with the undercoat, doesnt look blue in the pics, panacur & advocate both say fine for use during pregnancy, worm her how and a week before kits are due then worm her & kits from 3 weeks old 3/6/9/12 for kits and her at the same time say, 3/9 
advocate with worm/flea/ear mite treat.

food wise sounds very good, maybe throw in some RC babycat/kitten if she like RC food.


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## TomCat1 (Dec 22, 2010)

Thanks  


She doesn't look black in the flesh, she is def grey with peachy ginger bits but is that due to the smoke?

ETA What age is advocate in the kittens? I have advocate for her so I can stick that on now, and I'll get some panacur in the next day or two.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Hmmm I dont know, if you had some other pics? blue is very 'blue' lol or blue/grey, her undercoat looks a light grey/top looks black with ginger (red) like a typical tortie really. Depends on how many she mated with and colour etc I think the girls will mainly be tortie if she has any


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

TomCat1 said:


> Thanks
> 
> She doesn't look black in the flesh, she is def grey with peachy ginger bits but is that due to the smoke?
> 
> ETA What age is advocate in the kittens? I have advocate for her so I can stick that on now, and I'll get some panacur in the next day or two.


dont advocate the kis lol! that cant be done until a certain age/weight, do you have the box there? ive thrown the box so dont have the details, use that on mum now and pancura paste the kittens, over a3 day period, at 3/6/9/12 weeks over 3 days, itll have the amount on the box, they will hate you after as its bloody rank to taste....yes i got it in my mouth ARGHHHH!!  :scared: but it soon wears off lol!


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## TomCat1 (Dec 22, 2010)

All pics are from a while ago, but her in various lights


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## TomCat1 (Dec 22, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> dont advocate the kis lol! that cant be done until a certain age/weight, do you have the box there? ive thrown the box so dont have the details, use that on mum now and pancura paste the kittens, over a3 day period, at 3/6/9/12 weeks over 3 days, itll have the amount on the box, they will hate you after as its bloody rank to taste....yes i got it in my mouth ARGHHHH!!  :scared: but it soon wears off lol!


Ah oki  I will see what the box says and use that, I tihnk its over 1kg in weight from memory. So I don't need to flea treat the kittens as long as mum is, unless I see fleas and then I can use frontline spray? But otherwise panacur the kittens as above? Is that right?

ETA the box says over 9 weeks/1kg


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## alisondalziel (Oct 8, 2008)

Deffo looks like a black tortie smoke 

I wouldn't worm or de-flea if she's pregnant, i didn't bother. Especially if she's indoor it doesn't matter (unless she has fleas).

Kittens are wormed at 4, 8 and 12 weeks and de-flead at 12 weeks.

Nice looking mummy, all the best


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

OK. First of all anyone has the right to reply to a thread how they wish. Since this is a matter I feel so strongly about I'm going to do just that ... but try not to lose my cool 

Please get her to the vet and booked in for a spay/abortion. She's not been health tested, so there alone you're taking some risks. I'm sure you don't want to be responsible for breeding sick kittens.

Let me paste something for you, as I know you're fairly new so you might not have seen it ...



Aurelia said:


> I know you mean well but have you thought this through properly?
> 
> You may well still have time to get her spayed. Then if you can still take the two kittens you claim you will if you let her have kittens ... take yourself to the local cat rescue and take 2 of those poor kitties home with you. Then advise your husbands mother and grandmother to do the same.  That way you are providing a home for cats/kittens that are already here and in need of a loving home.
> 
> ...


And a question ... What is the reason you have for not spaying her?

I know you didn't want to hear it ... sorry!


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2011)

You ask a question on a public forum - you need to be prepared to expect varying replies! Some you may not agree with!

I think all cats both male and female should be spayed or castrated! House cat or no house cat! guess the proof is in the pudding here!

That said - hope all goes well!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

TomCat1 said:


> I have ummed and ahhed about posting this since I really do not want the usual "SPAY YOUR CAT" lectures. The deed is done, lesson learnt.





Aurelia said:


> OK. First of all anyone has the right to reply to a thread how they wish. Since this is a matter I feel so strongly about I'm going to do just that ... but try not to lose my cool
> 
> Please get her to the vet and booked in for a spay/abortion. She's not been health tested, so there alone you're taking some risks. I'm sure you don't want to be responsible for breeding sick kittens.





DoubleTrouble said:


> You ask a question on a public forum - you need to be prepared to expect varying replies! Some you may not agree with!
> 
> I think all cats both male and female should be spayed or castrated! House cat or no house cat! guess the proof is in the pudding here!
> 
> That said - hope all goes well!


Totally agree with DoubeTrouble & Aurelia, when you ask a question on a public forum, you can cherry pic the advice given to you, but you can't dictate how people reply. Freedom of speech is a two way street!!

And for what it's worth... obviously the "spay your cat" lectures aren't powerful or freequent enough or these kinds of "accidents" wouldn't be happening so often.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

TomCat1 said:


> Ah oki  I will see what the box says and use that, I tihnk its over 1kg in weight from memory. So I don't need to flea treat the kittens as long as mum is, unless I see fleas and then I can use frontline spray? But otherwise panacur the kittens as above? Is that right?
> 
> ETA the box says over 9 weeks/1kg


def worm mum about a week before they are born, it will help as kittens can be born with hundreds of worms and mum can get them so its best to do it properly, them worm the kits with the panacur and advocate mum. There shouldnt be any fleas I dont know where they would come from!!

I personally advocate all my adults & milbamax them, indoors and outdoor cats, but I dont advocate the kittens as there are no fleas and Ive never had fleas in 14years of having cats, so I dont like to put to much chemicals on them esp with the worming and vacs etc



DoubleTrouble said:


> You ask a question on a public forum - you need to be prepared to expect varying replies! Some you may not agree with!
> 
> *I think all cats both male and female should be spayed or castrated! House cat or no house cat! * guess the proof is in the pudding here!
> 
> That said - hope all goes well!


so true! :thumbup: All my 'pets' are neutered, just went and got them done at 5/6months, simples! lol  all kittens I sell are neutered to, no reason for them not to be!


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2011)

I back up Aurelia, DT and Tje here...

Your cat is not health tested nor do you know who the father is not to mention you dont know if dad has a genetic health problem.

Get her spayed and then its over with...its the right thing to do as you cant possibly know the kittens will be healthy.

Also as Aurelia put the cost of raising kittens CORRECTLY (not on the cheap) can you afford that? And a C-section if something goes wrong?


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## WindyCity (Dec 18, 2010)

Taylorbaby said:


> def worm mum about a week before they are born, it will help as kittens can be born with hundreds of worms and mum can get them so its best to do it properly, them worm the kits with the panacur and advocate mum. There shouldnt be any fleas I dont know where they would come from!!


Yup I agree she can be wormed any time in the last 2 weeks of pregnancy with panacur, I always do mine around this time just in case.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> I back up Aurelia, DT and Tje here...
> 
> Your cat is not health tested nor do you know who the father is not to mention you dont know if dad has a genetic health problem.
> 
> ...


700 squid for a c-section, called 3 vets, went to the nearest one in the end so didnt have to stress her anymore, the other quote was a extra ten mins away and 550 NOT including meds.

both were just 'quotes' aswell  



WindyCity said:


> Yup I agree she can be wormed any time in the last 2 weeks of pregnancy with panacur, I always do mine around this time just in case.


:thumbup: better safe than sorry, oh also milbamax im sure can be used i checked the website and askedthe vet, but better double check.


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## TomCat1 (Dec 22, 2010)

Thanks  vet costs not an issue, neither is the cost for a litter, vaccinating them, microchipping etc, and they will not be sold until minimum 9weeks with one vaccination and the second paid for ready to be used. They will be microchipped in my name and if needs be, I can take a whole litter back.

If I thought there was a hope in hell of a pedigree stud agreeing to be used, I would be all over it. Since no-one here offers that as an option, local random it is, I wouldnprefer a known stud but it just ain't gonna happen, and thankfully calici/corona/felv/fiv is uncommon.. Bonus of an island. Ellie is fully health checked.. No viral nasties since my two neuters donate blood, fully vaccinated, her parents lines known right back to great grandma/grandpa and no heart murmurs, known genetic problems including hcm, polycystic kidney disease etc. I know her blood type, and I am not really sure what else could reasonably be expected for me to do? Feel free to please enlighten me!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

TomCat1 said:


> Thanks  vet costs not an issue, neither is the cost for a litter, vaccinating them, microchipping etc, and they will not be sold until minimum 9weeks with one vaccination and the second paid for ready to be used. They will be microchipped in my name and if needs be, I can take a whole litter back.
> 
> If I thought there was a hope in hell of a pedigree stud agreeing to be used, I would be all over it. Since no-one here offers that as an option, local random it is, I wouldnprefer a known stud but it just ain't gonna happen, and thankfully calici/corona/felv/fiv is uncommon.. Bonus of an island. Ellie is fully health checked.. No viral nasties since my two neuters donate blood, fully vaccinated, her parents lines known right back to great grandma/grandpa and no heart murmurs, known genetic problems including hcm, polycystic kidney disease etc. I know her blood type, and I am not really sure what else could reasonably be expected for me to do? Feel free to please enlighten me!


If I'm reading this correctly this pregnancy is not accidental


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

TomCat1 said:


> If I thought there was a hope in hell of a pedigree stud agreeing to be used, I would be all over it. Since no-one here offers that as an option, local random it is, I wouldnprefer a known stud but it just ain't gonna happen,


This sounds as though you are planning for her to get pregnant whereas I thought you thought she got pregnant when she was out for an hour 3 weeks ago. 

You know that you can still get her spayed?


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

TomCat1 said:


> Thanks  vet costs not an issue, neither is the cost for a litter, vaccinating them, microchipping etc, and they will not be sold until minimum 9weeks with one vaccination and the second paid for ready to be used. They will be microchipped in my name and if needs be, I can take a whole litter back.
> 
> If I thought there was a hope in hell of a pedigree stud agreeing to be used, I would be all over it. Since no-one here offers that as an option, *local random it is*, I wouldnprefer a known stud but it just ain't gonna happen, and thankfully calici/corona/felv/fiv is uncommon.. Bonus of an island. Ellie is fully health checked.. No viral nasties since my two neuters donate blood, fully vaccinated, her parents lines known right back to great grandma/grandpa and no heart murmurs, known genetic problems including hcm, polycystic kidney disease etc. I know her blood type, and I am not really sure what else could reasonably be expected for me to do? Feel free to please enlighten me!





buffie said:


> If I'm reading this correctly this pregnancy is not accidental


Definately no accident!


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2011)

TomCat1 said:


> If I thought there was a hope in hell of a pedigree stud agreeing to be used, I would be all over it. Since no-one here offers that as an option, local random it is, I wouldnprefer a known stud but it just ain't gonna happen


Whoa what? This was not a accident?

No one with a pedigree stud cat would stud to a cross because alot of good breeders know the crisis that moggies are in with over population.

So because *you* wanted a litter of kittens you chucked your girl outside and hoped for her to get caught?


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Whoa what? This was not a accident?
> 
> No one with a pedigree stud cat would stud to a cross because alot of good breeders know the crisis that moggies are in with over population.
> 
> So because *you* wanted a litter of kittens you chucked your girl outside and hoped for her to get caught?


I'm going to take a wild guess that the honest answer is yes.

I'm not saying it's totally impossible, but for a queen to get caught within an hour but it is highly unlikely. Especially a maiden queen. But like I say, it's not impossible so ...


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2011)

Aurelia said:


> I'm going to take a wild guess that the honest answer is yes.
> 
> I'm not saying it's totally impossible, but for a queen to get caught within an hour but it is highly unlikely. Especially a maiden queen. But like I say, it's not impossible so ...


I was under the impression that it was a accidental litter.

But if she's saying:



TomCat1 said:


> If I thought there was a hope in hell of a pedigree stud agreeing to be used, I would be all over it. Since no-one here offers that as an option, local random it is, I wouldnprefer a known stud but it just ain't gonna happen


Then its clear that its fully intended......

I am just shocked that someone would allow their beloved pet to mate with another cat that she doesnt even know what it looks like, if its a stray, has health problems, it could have 3 heads for all the op knows yet she allowed it to happen.:scared:


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## TomCat1 (Dec 22, 2010)

I shall repeat we do not know if she is pregnant but if she is, it was unplanned.

My comment about a pedigree stud is badly worded, what I mean is you do not see them advertised so therefore it is never an option to start with


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

TomCat1 said:


> I did not plan for her to get pregnant, she is, healthwise, the same as my neutered boys, since you all seemed to imply that she was unhealthy.
> 
> I did not plan for her to get pregnant, I did not turf her out in order for it to happen, my point was if she is, she is at least healthy and unlikely to be adding to the great unwell. I was condemned for her being untested, I am condemned for her being tested as I am now being accused of planning it!!
> 
> ...


I have only ever had Moggies :thumbup:


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

TomCat1 said:


> Thanks
> 
> If I thought there was a hope in hell of a pedigree stud agreeing to be used, I would be all over it. Since no-one here offers that as an option, local random it is, I wouldnprefer a known stud but it just ain't gonna happen, and thankfully calici/corona/felv/fiv is uncommon.. Bonus of an island.


If the above statement does not say that your intention was/is to have a litter from your cat then what does it say.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

my moggie boy is very ill, since he was a kitten, my pedigree cants never been ill.

it was planned otherwise you netuer at 6 months, and if you had called your local studs some of them do actually accept crosses/moggies if they are health tested so people dont just let them outside to be mated by anything.

how do you know that calici/corona/felv/fiv is uncommon you dont know the boys she mated with? could be 5 of them??


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

buffie said:


> If the above statement does not say that your intention was/is to have a litter from your cat then what does it say.


lol good eyes buffy


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

TomCat1 said:


> I did not plan for her to get pregnant, she is, healthwise, the same as my neutered boys, since you all seemed to imply that she was unhealthy.
> 
> I did not plan for her to get pregnant, I did not turf her out in order for it to happen, my point was if she is, she is at least healthy and unlikely to be adding to the great unwell. I was condemned for her being untested, I am condemned for her being tested as I am now being accused of planning it!!
> 
> ...


When you joined the forums the day or day after she went out you knew full well what had happened, and I suspect you joined the forums to use all the helpful info to aide you in your plans. Now I've no massive problem with that except that at that time there probably wasn't even fertilisation. You could have got her booked in for a spay as soon as she walked through the door. You chose not to, so it's not longer an accident.

It's not like she was gone weeks and came back pregnant. As a pet owner you know she should have been spayed, and you know if she got out there is a risk she could have gotten pregnant.

I see where you say her relatives have been health tested, but not where you have actually tested your queen.

It doesn't matter what you say there is no valid reason for breeding moggies. But if someone really wanted to do it, and did it to a pedigree breeders standard then I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it. But even then there are just too many moggies sat in rescue centres!

To pull the line about breeders condemning you, and it being laughable ... well it just sounds like a sorry attempt at making yourself look better.

Can you please provide a link or two where you have found evidence (from a reliable source, not just something you read somewhere on another forum) of the bolded claim?


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

One more thing. How do you know that she hasn't mated with a tom that has HCM, PKD and/or all the viral nasties?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

why sell them at 9 weeks old???????? they need to be 12 or over!

I know I posted this before but saves me re-writing.

so it isnt as cut & dry as 'pedigree v moggie' or for that fact cross breeds. those just letting cats breeder (and they are like rabbits they breed!) need to be stopped.

a sort of policy should be brought in where you cant sell them under 12weeks without being vet checked twice fully vac, wormed with insurance kitten pack etc. As I think A hell of alot of people would stop letting their cats out to get pregnant, and esp trying to cut corners to do it for money! Then I feel rescue cases would go down if everyone did it properly. And all pets to be neutered at 5/6months then accidents would happen!



TomCat1 said:


> Least moggies have generally lower incidences of hcm, polycystic kidney disease/*hip dysplasia* which are all common pedigree cat problems leading to shorter life spans.. Sort those problems out and then you can talk about healthy cats!!


this is VERY rare is mainly seen in dogs.........they have only just discovered it in a few cats!


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2011)

TomCat1 said:


> I did not plan for her to get pregnant, she is, healthwise, the same as my neutered boys, since you all seemed to imply that she was unhealthy.


She is NOT health tested you have no way of knowing if she is healthy...
You also have no idea what she bred with so you dont know if the kittens are going to be healthy.

So you would rather let your girl go through the risk of birthing maybe even die? Or give birth to a litter of dead or sick kittens?

Abortion is not murder.....



TomCat1 said:


> I did not plan for her to get pregnant, I did not turf her out in order for it to happen, my point was if she is, she is at least healthy and unlikely to be adding to the great unwell. I was condemned for her being untested, I am condemned for her being tested as I am now being accused of planning it!!


Has she been health tested for genetic problems? No....there for you cant say she is 100% healthy.



TomCat1 said:


> I am not spaying her if she is pregnant. If she is not, she will be spayed once we are sure.


Why is my gut telling me that if she isnt pregnant she will "escape" again?



TomCat1 said:


> I find it laughable that those of you with pedigree breeds are so quick to condemn..


Um....do you see a pedigree cat in my signature? No...I have 3 moggies.



TomCat1 said:


> Least moggies have generally lower incidences of hcm, polycystic kidney disease/hip dysplasia which are all common pedigree cat problems leading to shorter life spans.. Sort those problems out and then you can talk about healthy cats!!


There is so much wrong with that quote....for starters every moggie has a different set of genetics 1 moggie could be half bsh, quarter siamese and quarter bob cat the other could be a mix of exotic, ragdoll and forest cat.

So that statement is incorrect....

So the cat 5 doors up is healthy because hes a moggie and is just as healthy as my cat? No....my cat is a moggie and has had LOADS of genetic skin problems as well as allergies.

Your cat could have bred with a cat that has a genetic eye defect or a genetic heart defect...you do not know..


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

> So the cat 5 doors up is healthy because hes a moggie and is just as healthy as my cat? No....my cat is a moggie and has had LOADS of genetic skin problems as well as allergies.
> 
> Your cat could have bred with a cat that has a genetic eye defect or a genetic heart defect...you do not know..


same as my moggie boy, his also very ill 



Taylorbaby said:


> how do you know that calici/corona/felv/fiv is uncommon you dont know the boys she mated with? could be 5 of them??





Aurelia said:


> One more thing. How do you know that she hasn't mated with a tom that has HCM, PKD and/or all the viral nasties?


thats what I said  could be 1 dad could be 3 or 5 or more, say they all have defects??.

its like a lottery and the odds are too much for me to risk!


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2011)

Also if you honestly believe pedigree cats are so ill and unhealthy why did you post this in another thread?



TomCat1 said:


> I think I am going to take the plunge and show one of my cats in 2011  I've been wanting a pedigree for a while, but I thought I'd have a look with a moggy first


You also own a pedigree dog...

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-bree...me-dogs-your-dogs-pedigree-6.html#post2069843



TomCat1 said:


> I'd just like to add I work at a vets and in most of our blocked bladder cats, Iams and Go Cat are a food the cat eats a lot of, if not soley. . .


And you work in a vets but you refuse to understand:
1) the level of distress a un-spayed queen feels during heat.
2) that having her spayed is infact the most safe option for your girl.
3) that moggies have just as many (if not more) health problems/genetic/normal as a pedigree.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2011)

TomCat1 said:


> Thanks  vet costs not an issue, neither is the cost for a litter, vaccinating them, microchipping etc, and they will not be sold until minimum 9weeks with one vaccination and the second paid for ready to be used. They will be microchipped in my name and if needs be, I can take a whole litter back.
> 
> If I thought there was a hope in hell of a pedigree stud agreeing to be used, I would be all over it. Since no-one here offers that as an option, *local random it is,* I wouldnprefer a known stud but it just ain't gonna happen, and thankfully calici/corona/felv/fiv is uncommon.. Bonus of an island. Ellie is fully health checked.. No viral nasties since my two neuters donate blood, fully vaccinated, her parents lines known right back to great grandma/grandpa and no heart murmurs, known genetic problems including hcm, polycystic kidney disease etc. I know her blood type, and I am not really sure what else could reasonably be expected for me to do? Feel free to please enlighten me!


that is just shocking


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

TomCat1 said:


> I
> I am not spaying her if she is pregnant. If she is not, she will be spayed once we are sure. I do not believe in murder or abortion which is what a pregnant spay would be. Abortion kills a beating heart and i am not happy making that choice
> 
> I find it laughable that those of you with pedigree breeds are so quick to condemn.. A cat needing a home needs a home regardless of pedigree and with the number of litters some pedigree breeders have a year it is laughable to condemn moggies for increasing the population.. Least moggies have generally lower incidences of hcm, polycystic kidney disease/hip dysplasia which are all common pedigree cat problems leading to shorter life spans.. Sort those problems out and then you can talk about healthy cats!!


IMO allowing yet more unwanted cats into the world is indeed a form of cruelty and yes, murder. I volunteer with a rescue organisation and I see some terrible, terrible things: all as a result of unspayed/unneutered cats. I can assure you, it will not be easy to find all of them decent loving homes, even if "friends" say they will take them off your hands. "Barn cats" are often merely strays with a roof.
Your remark about moggies and diseases makes no sense: if, and I doubt this very much, the average moggie is "healthier" than a pedigree, what difference does it make? An unwanted cat is an unwanted cat, doesn't matter how "healthy" it is. Some of the ferals I feed are healthy-looking, magnificent-looking cats, that any cat owner would be proud to have in their homes, but still they are homeless because there are no homes for them and they were born feral (probably to a beloved "housecat" that "accidentally" became pregnant).
Incidentally, both my cats are rescue moggies, and one of them is quite fragile, healthwise. My friend's two pedigree Siamese are fit and healthy 21- and 23-year olds respectively.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

TomCat1 said:


> If I thought there was a hope in hell of a pedigree stud agreeing to be used, I would be all over it. Since no-one here offers that as an option, local random it is, I wouldnprefer a known stud but it just ain't gonna happen, and thankfully calici/corona/felv/fiv is uncommon.. Bonus of an island.!


You do find pedigree studs willing to take moggies - several advertise on preloved. Most of them are unregistered though. What you probably won't find, is a pedigree stud willing to take a moggy without the usual tests and without a significant stud fee (though often less than for a pedigree)

What island do you live on?

Liz


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

koekemakranka said:


> IMO allowing yet more unwanted cats into the world is indeed a form of cruelty and yes, murder.


O come on, that is ridiculous.

liz


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

TomCat1 said:


> *Abortion kills a beating heart and i am not happy making that choice*


Yet you are quite happy to bring yet more animals in to a world where thousands are killed every year because they are unwanted?

Rescue centres are inundated with abandoned animals, puppies/kittens that were born because of irresponsible owners such as you who failed to keep their unneutered animals indoors, & sick,old pets whose owners can no longer be bothered with them 

How do you know that the new owners of your kittens (if you can find any) will not be as irresponsible as you?


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

lizward said:


> O come on, that is ridiculous.
> 
> liz


It isn't. You haven't seen the things I have, obviously.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

TomCat1 said:


> I think Ellie is pregnant.
> 
> I have ummed and ahhed about posting this since I really do not want the usual "SPAY YOUR CAT" lectures. The deed is done, lesson learnt. (If anyone wants the backstory .. She had been a 100% housecat with no interest in going out, although she has had the option (no catflaps, the cats are only ever out when we are around) - she has never wanted to go out, and I naively didn't think she would come into call in mid winter, so when she took herself out for an hour or so back in december I didn't think too much of it. . Now she is much more in your face friendly, washing herself more and feels different when you pick her up (the best analagy I can come up with is raw meat before to cooked meat now .. a subtle change) so I am beginning to wonder.) IF she is, she will be 3 weeks gone on Tuesday
> 
> ...


*Instead of people being so judgemental why not just answer the question the OP asked?*


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Instead of people being so judgemental why not just answer the question the OP asked?*


Taylorbaby did answer the OP's question in her initial replies.

People are commenting as yet again another moggie 'accidentally' got preganant.

As I am regualrly visiting a rescue centre at the moment & I am seeing first hand the many unwanted & abandonded animals that are coming through it's doors & am fed up of constantly reading these threads from irresponsible owners


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## maiacam (Jul 31, 2010)

If people loved their cats they would they get them spayed and spare the suffering of having an unwanted litter which then gets given to further irresponsible owners who then have accidental pregnancies and the cycle goes on and on ! Why can't some people see this its crystal clear not rocket science!!!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

TomCat1 said:


> I did not plan for her to get pregnant, she is, healthwise, the same as my neutered boys, since you all seemed to imply that she was unhealthy.
> 
> I did not plan for her to get pregnant, I did not turf her out in order for it to happen, my point was if she is, she is at least healthy and unlikely to be adding to the great unwell. I was condemned for her being untested, I am condemned for her being tested as I am now being accused of planning it!!
> 
> ...


i agree if you go against the grain ever so slightly on this forum you get shot down in flames! why cant everyone except situations and give advice in a nice manner?


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## maiacam (Jul 31, 2010)

People have strong opinions of so called accidental matings when rescues are full up all over the world and thousands of unwanted, unloved and unplanned cats and kittens are having to be put to sleep!! Until people stop letting their cats get knocked up the local tom its going to keep happening over and over again!!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

TomCat1 said:


> Thanks
> 
> If I thought there was a hope in hell of a pedigree stud agreeing to be used, I would be all over it. Since no-one here offers that as an option, local random it is, I wouldnprefer a known stud but it just ain't gonna happen, and thankfully calici/corona/felv/fiv is uncommon.. Bonus of an island. Ellie is fully health checked.. No viral nasties since my two neuters donate blood, fully vaccinated, her parents lines known right back to great grandma/grandpa and no heart murmurs, known genetic problems including hcm, polycystic kidney disease etc. I know her blood type, and I am not really sure what else could reasonably be expected for me to do? Feel free to please enlighten me!


Please read the above statement



JANICE199 said:


> *Instead of people being so judgemental why not just answer the question the OP asked?*


This is why members are, in your words, being "judgemental"The thread started with an "escaped" poss. pregnant cat which now would appear not to be the case at all.This poor cat was allowed out it would seem ,while in season,to be mated by any passing Tom.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

The more I read these threads, the more I wonder about all these "accidental" pregnancies.

_"I realise that allowing my cat to get pregnant is morally irresponsible, but I won't bother to get her spayed and will keep her in, and with luck, she can "accidentally-on-purpose" escape (I'll blame it on my visiting auntie) and then "deed is done..lesson learnt" and I can have a household full of fluffy kittens to play with for a while until the place starts stinking/it gets too expensive/my kids get bored and then I can make another plan. Oh, I know! I am sure the nice neighbours will each take one, and Suzie at the hairdressers mentioned something about wanting a cat.... And I am sure they will go like hot cakes, because my dear little Fluffbumpkin/Tinkerbell is SUCH a prettty cat"._


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> i agree if you go against the grain ever so slightly on this forum you get shot down in flames! why cant everyone except situations and give advice in a nice manner?


Why do you not read,analyse and most of all understand what has happened here and why members are not happy.This would appear from the OP's own statements that this was not as first said,an accidental mating.If it had been that would have been sad,but it seems after a bit of discussion this was a deliberate attempt to try get this cat pregnant.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

buffie said:


> Why do you not read,analyse and most of all understand what has happened here and why members are not happy.This would appear from the OP's own statements that this was not as first said,an accidental mating.If it had been that would have been sad,but it seems after a bit of discussion this was a deliberate attempt to try get this cat pregnant.


i understand she did worded it wrong and she did explain again that it was an accident.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> i understand she did worded it wrong and she did explain again that it was an accident.


Then how do you explain the earlier post that Buffie has copied above?
The thing that forum members need to remember when they weave their stories that everything they have said prior is still available for public viewing.

Now had the OP just been asking for advice regarding a 'potential' cat in kitten then maybe the replies would have been not quite so hostile!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

im just going by what the op has said before and after and has explained that she had worded it wrong im not going by other peoples opinions because they are jumping to conclusions.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> im just going by what the op has said before and after and has explained that she had worded it wrong im not going by other peoples opinions because they are jumping to conclusions.


I think you sould actually repharse that to that 'some' of us are not so easily duped! And consequently base our replies on ALL previous written facts rather then the 'version' of events that we see before us!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> im just going by what the op has said before and after and has explained that she had worded it wrong im not going by other peoples opinions because they are jumping to conclusions.


Well after reading your posts regarding another accidental pregnancy with your cat I'm not suprised to hear you also defending irresponsible owners!!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

its just my opinion. and il believe what i want to believe. simples.


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## maiacam (Jul 31, 2010)

Simple I think is the right word for you...


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Well after reading your posts regarding another accidental pregnancy with your cat I'm not suprised to hear you also defending irresponsible owners!!


things happen and peoples lives are different. i came on here hopefully to meet some NICE people and to get some advice so i no what to do and so i can do my best by my cat. and before you say it with your judgemental pointing finger yes i no she should have been spayed sooner but sometimes things dont go to plan, and will neuter her once she is fit too but in the meantime i need to no what im dealing with. and people like you dont help just critise and throw insults around. ive always been told if you have nothing nice to say then dont say anything at all!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

maiacam said:


> Simple I think is the right word for you...


grow up!!!!!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> things happen and peoples lives are different. i came on here hopefully to meet some NICE people and to get some advice so i no what to do and so i can do my best by my cat. and before you say it with your judgemental pointing finger yes i no she should have been spayed sooner but sometimes things dont go to plan, and will neuter her once she is fit too but in the meantime i need to no what im dealing with. and people like you dont help just critise and throw insults around.* ive always been told if you have nothing nice to say then dont say anything at all*!


Really? I've always been taught to speak my mind 

Oh .... and take care of my animals!!!!!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

you no i go on a mother and baby forum too and they is more judgemental people on here about cats then there are on there about children strange!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Really? I've always been taught to speak my mind
> 
> Oh .... and take care of my animals!!!!!


and let me guess youve never made a mistake before!! because your a saint arnt you.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> you no i go on a mother and baby forum too and they is more judgemental people on here about cats then there are on there about children strange!


Because, as has been pointed out time & time again  thousands of animals are killed evry year because of irresponsible owners - can you really not understand that?!


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> you no i go on a mother and baby forum too and they is more judgemental people on here about cats then there are on there about children strange!


I was going to say maybe because animals can't speak for themselves! but then I guess babies can't either! But I think people are quick to react if they see what could be a potential problem with a baby! unlike animals where MANY folk tend to turn a blind eye!

DT


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

People always say "my cats are like children to me, I love them so". But would anyone seriously send out their vulnerable 14-year-old daughter into the streets to be impregnated by any runaround male and then just shrug and say "Oh well deed is done, lesson learnt"???
I know cats are "just animals", but really....


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Then how do you explain the earlier post that Buffie has copied above?
> The thing that forum members need to remember when they weave their stories that everything they have said prior is still available for public viewing.
> 
> Now had the OP just been asking for advice regarding a 'potential' cat in kitten then maybe the replies would have been not quite so hostile!


*This is a forum Sue and yes people do have a right to say things,but there is NO excuse for members to be hostile.If people spoke to me in real life like some do to others on here i for one wouldn't put up with it and would probably give them a bl**dy good slap.Manners and respect cost nothing.*


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Because, as has been pointed out time & time again  thousands of animals are killed evry year because of irresponsible owners - can you really not understand that?!


i do understand that but you cant paint everyone with the same brush! it is very sad that there are homeless animals but that doesnt mean the kittens il have will be. and i dont intend to make the same mistake twice and will get her done asap and the kittens too.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

koekemakranka said:


> People always say "my cats are like children to me, I love them so". But would anyone seriously send out their vulnerable 14-year-old daughter into the streets to be impregnated by any runaround male and then just shrug and say "Oh well deed is done, lesson learnt"???
> I know cats are "just animals", but really....


unfortunitly some do!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *This is a forum Sue and yes people do have a right to say things,but there is NO excuse for members to be hostile.If people spoke to me in real life like some do to others on here i for one wouldn't put up with it and would probably give them a bl**dy good slap.Manners and respect cost nothing.*


well said!! manners cost nothing!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> i do understand that but you cant paint everyone with the same brush! it is very sad that there are homeless animals but that doesnt mean the kittens il have will be. and i dont intend to make the same mistake twice and will get her done asap and the kittens too.


Really??? You're going to keep ALL the kittens until they are old enough to be spayed/neutered & then pay for them ALL to be done including their Mum who ou had for 14months before allowing her to get pregnant????


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *This is a forum Sue and yes people do have a right to say things,but there is NO excuse for members to be hostile.If people spoke to me in real life like some do to others on here i for one wouldn't put up with it and would probably give them a bl**dy good slap.Manners and respect cost nothing.*


I think even in real life Jan that if you continue to hear excuse upon excuse, and that if someone is trying to pull the wool so to speak then not only your tone but your attitude towards that person changes - I know for a fact mine does and I do.
DT


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Really??? You're going to keep ALL the kittens until they are old enough to be spayed/neutered & then pay for them ALL to be done including their Mum who ou had for 14months before allowing her to get pregnant????


Or will we be seeing a notice for urgent rehoming of "cute kittens" on the adoption and rescue forum in a few months' time?


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> well said!! manners cost nothing!


Neither does being a responsible owner!

If you cannot afford the spaying or castration you can at the very least keep them in!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> Really??? You're going to keep ALL the kittens until they are old enough to be spayed/neutered & then pay for them ALL to be done including their Mum who ou had for 14months before allowing her to get pregnant????


i dont have to explain myself to you but yes we will get her done as soon as she is ready to be and the kittens we keep will be and my auntie will be having one too so yes they will be. and weve had her for 12months, of which most of that time she has been an indoor cat but as ive said in my other thread that she was booked in but situations arose so sometimes things dont always go to plan.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I think even in real life Jsn that if you continue to hear excuse upon excuse, and that if someone is trying to pull the wool so to speak then not only your tone but your attitude towards that person changes - I know for a fact mine does and I do.
> DT


*From what i've read from the op they have not tried pulling the wool over peoples eyes.People should either answer the question or don't bother replying.I for one am getting sick of people being judgemental and then others joining in just for the sake of it.I'd be suprised if the op bothers to come back.*


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

DoubleTrouble said:


> Neither does being a responsible owner!
> 
> If you cannot afford the spaying or castration you can at the very least keep them in!


who said i couldnt afford it?

so because i made a mistake im not being a responible owner?? again i surpose youve never made a mistake?!!!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *From what i've read from the op they have not tried pulling the wool over peoples eyes.People should either answer the question or don't bother replying.I for one am getting sick of people being judgemental and then others joining in just for the sake of it.I'd be suprised if the op bothers to come back.*


me too i think people just like being horrible on this forum and trying to make sure their halos dont fall!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *From what i've read from the op they have not tried pulling the wool over peoples eyes.People should either answer the question or don't bother replying.I for one am getting sick of people being judgemental and then others joining in just for the sake of it.I'd be suprised if the op bothers to come back.*


The OP got the info (as I said earlier) & people have continued to comment - why shouldn't they?

If you are sick of reading responses from 'judgemental' people why do you contiunue to do so?


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## hobbs2004 (Mar 12, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> me too i think people just like being horrible on this forum and trying to make sure their halos dont fall!


I think your reading on this forum must have been very selective if you have that opinion.


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> The OP got the info (as I said earlier) & people have continued to comment - why shouldn't they?
> 
> If you are sick of reading responses from 'judgemental' people why do you contiunue to do so?


atleast you have admitted it!!!


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## Gem16 (Aug 5, 2010)

I just want to point out i write this in moggies defense, not the OPs since i don't agree with 'letting them get pregnant' but meh accidents do happen.. anyway lol,
I have had moggies all my life and when i was younger we got them from places maybe we shouldn't have, i don't mean anywhere illegal lol! but you know, oops litters.
My mum got a little kitten from a pet shop ( this was about 23 years ago now ) before i was born, she was apparently riddled with fleas and my mum felt sorry for her BUT she went to live onto 21 with no health problems what so ever, passing away peacefully in her sleep..
Last year my 18 yr old cat died, she was a moggy from my aunts indoor cat who escaped and had a litter, she also didn't have health problems right till the very end.
My mums work colleague had an 'accidental' litter about 15 years ago, i was 4 at the time and had my heart set on a ginger kitty, so that is what we got, he also ( touch wood ) is still with us today alive and well with no problems except fighting with other cats grr lol.
I also have 2 other moggies right now, one is only 4 so obviously i don't know his future, the other is 12 who i got from rescue earlier this year, she does have IBD but then again, all cats can get this.
I have seen moggies living well into their late teens early twenties. I haven't met any older pedigrees yet, though of course i know they exist. 
I just don't think that moggies have MORE health problems than pedigrees, i would say maybe it's about even.. :confused1:
We have seen the threads lately about quite a lot of people buying pedigree kittens and losing them within months, very sadly.
I'm going completely off topic here really lol, i love pedigrees but i really do adore my moggies too and think they can be great and healthy :thumbup:

( again not condoning what has happened here, i agree with spaying and neutering asap when you get an animal! ) 

EDIT wow this thread has got busy since i wrote that, your all too fast


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Cleo38 said:


> The OP got the info (as I said earlier) & people have continued to comment - why shouldn't they?
> 
> If you are sick of reading responses from 'judgemental' people why do you contiunue to do so?


*Perhaps because i'm old school and don't like bullies.*


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## gladass (Jan 6, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *From what i've read from the op they have not tried pulling the wool over peoples eyes.People should either answer the question or don't bother replying.I for one am getting sick of people being judgemental and then others joining in just for the sake of it.I'd be suprised if the op bothers to come back.*


I have been reading mostly on here but thought I would have my say here. Bit of pot kettle is it not being sick of people being judgemental and tellin people to answer question or don't bother replying when you are jumping right in and no advice on here lol
As to OP There is far to many accidental litters imo

ps Hello Forum Members


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

hobbs2004 said:


> I think your reading on this forum must have been very selective if you have that opinion.


dont get me wrong not all are like it just some and unfortunitly in every thread ive read so far!:eek6:


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## gladass (Jan 6, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> me too i think people just like being horrible on this forum and trying to make sure their halos dont fall!


Opinioons and feelings are individual If ya no likey no posty lol


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> atleast you have admitted it!!!


TBH I don't consider being 'judgemental' to be bad thing - if people were told hard truths more often maybe they would start taking resonsibility for their actions rather than always finding some excuse for their behaviour, their lack of consideration or realise the consequencesof their actions

Unfortunately too often I hear the same old bleats from people expecting sympathy because they couldn't be bothered to put a bit of time & thought in to their pets welfare??


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

gladass said:


> Opinioons and feelings are individual If ya no likey no posty lol


yes your right i dont have to read but it doesnt make being dam right horrible anymore acceptable does it!


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2011)

mycatroxy said:


> who said i couldnt afford it?
> 
> so because i made a mistake im not being a responible owner?? again i surpose youve never made a mistake?!!!


ME! make a mistake? where animals are concerned NO Never:thumbup::thumbup:

And this is NOT applicable to you! BUT if I did I would NOT try to worm myself out of it!


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## mycatroxy (Jan 5, 2011)

Cleo38 said:


> TBH I don't consider being 'judgemental' to be bad thing - if people were told hard truths more often maybe they would start taking resonsibility for their actions rather than always finding some excuse for their behaviour, their lack of consideration or realise the consequencesof their actions
> 
> Unfortunately too often I hear the same old bleats from people expecting sympathy because they couldn't be bothered to put a bit of time & thought in to their pets welfare??


well im glad im not so narrow minded.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

mycatroxy said:


> well im glad im not so narrow minded.


LOL, no just irresponsible instead!


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

OP received a reply to their initial questions. This thread can now be closed.


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