# Huge paw from bandage?



## Little-moomin

Bill has a bandage on his leg with a canula in so if we need to make the hard decision to put him to sleep, they don't need to find a vein and cause him distress.

However his paw has literally doubled in size. It doesn't seem painful and he's not limping but it is maybe even more than twice the size of the other one.

Is this normal?


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## buffie

Doesn't sound normal to me,give your vet a ring, maybe the bandage is too tight.


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## Little-moomin

The vet is closed - they have an emergency line but he seems fine and is walking on it fine?

Should we still ring?


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## buffie

Little-moomin said:


> The vet is closed - they have an emergency line but he seems fine and is walking on it fine?
> 
> Should we still ring?


Yes I would ,better to be safe than sorry.


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## Little-moomin

Just rang, they said it might be a tad too tight but we shouldn't do anything as we don't want to disrupt the IV.

We're going to keep an eye on him and if look him in and if it looks like it's causing him any pain we'll bring him in to have it loosened


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## Sled dog hotel

Little-moomin said:


> Bill has a bandage on his leg with a canula in so if we need to make the hard decision to put him to sleep, they don't need to find a vein and cause him distress.
> 
> However his paw has literally doubled in size. It doesn't seem painful and he's not limping but it is maybe even more than twice the size of the other one.
> 
> Is this normal?


Does the bandage seem tight around his leg? If so that can be a common cause of swelling, its also a concern because too tight bandages around limbs can cut off circulation. After cannulas have been in awhile they can also cause soreness and cause swelling. It doesn't sound right at all and you really need to get it checked.


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## Little-moomin

How do I attach a photo?


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## Sled dog hotel

Just had another thought does the paw feel cold or colder then the rest of his feet, that can mean there is lack of circulation, if its hot and hotter then the surrounding area or other feet it can sometimes mean infection. I forgot to mention the hot/cold before, I also looked this up for you.

Bandage and splint care in cats the whole thing is below but this is part of it.

Check the bandage at least twice daily to ensure that it is clean and dry and that it is neither too tight nor too loose. If the toes are exposed below the bandage, check that they are free of discharges or bad smells, that they are neither hot nor cold, and that they have not become swollen or red. Any of these signs could indicate that the bandage is too tight or that the infection is spreading. For the same reasons, also check the area above the bandage to make sure that it is not swollen, red, chafed, or otherwise irritated. Finally, make sure that the bandage has not slipped up or down.

http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pe...l-health/bandage-and-splint-care-in-cats/3765


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## Jess Pryce

This means the bandage is too tight and will get quite painful for him. Is there any way you can loosen the bandage? Most vets will put a double layer bandage on, the outside layer is normally vet wrap which sticks to its self. If you can find the edge you may be able to unwrap it and then re apply it looser. The layer underneath is a soft wrap layer and is normally ok.
If you cant un wrap the bandage then cut an inch or two down the bandage to see if that will loosen it. Then make sure you massage the foot to get the circulation moving again.
If possible call your out of hours vet and just ask if they have any spare vetwrap you can pick up to re bandage or see if they will re-do it for you.


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## Jess Pryce

Little-moomin said:


> Just rang, they said it might be a tad too tight but we shouldn't do anything as we don't want to disrupt the IV.
> 
> We're going to keep an eye on him and if look him in and if it looks like it's causing him any pain we'll bring him in to have it loosened


Massage his foot as well if he will let you, just to get the blood flowing a bit.


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## Little-moomin

I'll massage his foot. His bandage is pretty is tight but not super tight, I'm not as expert. As he's got an IV in I'm a little nervous to play about with it as I don't want him being able to pull it off.

Vet is about an hour away so although we are happy to take him we don't want to cause him any distress. I'm going to attach photos and see what you think?


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## Little-moomin

His paws don't seem hotter or colder than the rest of his body but will check frequently.

Do these images work.


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## Little-moomin




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## Jess Pryce

Little-moomin said:


> View attachment 265123
> View attachment 265124


Ive seen a lot worse, although pretty swollen if your happy to closely watch it then leave it at that.
If your feeling brave, it is wrapped in vet wrap and you should be able to unwrap it carefully. The IV is normally tapped in very well and removing the top bandage layer shouldn't interfere with it. Then you can just wrap the leg up again like they have in a sweat band form.
How long will the IV stay in place for, as I wouldn't leave it to long like that.


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## Little-moomin

The IV is there because the vet said, seeing as Billy is so anaemic, he will likely only last a few days (this was on friday). Me and mum have decided if we can, to have him PTS at home, so the IV is there so the vet wouldn't have to struggle to find a vein.

However, touch wood, Bill is doing okay. He's eating, drinking and cleaning himself. He's outside at the moment. 

Me and Mum ourselves are unsure how long it should stay before being replaced/ removed. 

I'm really nervous to play around with his bandage but if I have to I will


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## Jess Pryce

Little-moomin said:


> The IV is there because the vet said, seeing as Billy is so anaemic, he will likely only last a few days (this was on friday). Me and mum have decided if we can, to have him PTS at home, so the IV is there so the vet wouldn't have to struggle to find a vein.
> 
> However, touch wood, Bill is doing okay. He's eating, drinking and cleaning himself. He's outside at the moment.
> 
> Me and Mum ourselves are unsure how long it should stay before being replaced/ removed.
> 
> I'm really nervous to play around with his bandage but if I have to I will


Im sorry to hear that, hope he makes a speedy recovery but its so nice to have them at home where they are happiest.
Normally they should be removed/changed every three days just to prevent infection occurring or any sore patches forming, so see what its like tomorrow. May be best to pop him back tomorrow anyway to either check the bandage and check how he is doing himself and weather he needs it removed or not.


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## lorilu

This is an urgent case if not an emergency. Get him to the ER vet and get that bandage loosened. He will lose his foot. And it probably hurts. Remember that cats do not show pain.

Edit: Cats will hide pain until extreme, until they are in such agony it cannot be hidden.


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## Little-moomin

We're taking him to the vet now. They said he's have to have it out tomorrow anyway, and I'd be shocked if he died tonight so I think it's the right thing.


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## Jess Pryce

Little-moomin said:


> We're taking him to the vet now. They said he's have to have it out tomorrow anyway, and I'd be shocked if he died tonight so I think it's the right thing.


Let us know how you get on.


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## Jess Pryce

lorilu said:


> This is an urgent case if not an emergency. Get him to the ER vet and get that bandage loosened. He will lose his foot. And it probably hurts. Remember that cats do not show pain.


Dont mean to be rude, but im pretty sure cats do show pain. And to say he will lose his foot is a bit drastic, that's the worst case scenario and would take a very long time for that to happen.


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## lorilu

Jess Pryce said:


> Dont mean to be rude, but im pretty sure cats do show pain. And to say he will lose his foot is a bit drastic, that's the worst case scenario and would take a very long time for that to happen.


Actually cats instinctively hide pain, this is common knowledge, or should be. This is why often by the time a cat is showing illness he has been sick for a very long time, because they hide it.

It is instinctive behavior because not only are they hunters, they are prey animals to other hunters. By the time they are showing suffering, they have been ill or in pain for quite a long time.

And no, it would not take a long time for the paw to die, once the blood flow is cut off, and the swelling indicates the blood flow has been cut off.

I stand by my post.


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## Jess Pryce

lorilu said:


> Actually cats instinctively hide pain, this is common knowledge, or should be. This is why often by the time a cat is showing illness he has been sick for a very long time, because they hide it.
> 
> It is instinctive behavior because not only are they hunters, they are prey animals to other hunters. By the time they are showing suffering, they have been ill or in pain for quite a long time.
> 
> And no, it would not take a long time for the paw to die, once the blood flow is cut off, and the swelling indicates the blood flow has been cut off.
> 
> I stand by my post.


That's fair enough, but I will also stand by my post, I have seen enough cats in a lot of pain clearly showing that they are painful. They can hide it fairly well but nether the less they show pain.


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## Ceiling Kitty

Goodness me.

Yes, cats can and do show pain. Most of the time, they do everything they can not to.

This is why there are so many studies these days aimed at trying to improve the ways we can assess feline pain levels - we're getting better, but it's still very hard. I assume cats with problems I reckon would hurt me are in pain.

I would imagine having a tourniquet applied to one's limb for anything longer than a few minutes would be painful. I mean, I hate having my blood pressure taken; the cuff feels quite uncomfortable.

Left long enough, these tightly bandaged paws would suffer serious and permanent injury. It wouldn't happen that quickly though - the venous outflow is cut off first (as the veins are softer and more easily squashed), which results in the oedema. Except in really, REALLY tight bandages, it would take longer for the arterial supply to be compromised and result in ischaemia.

Personally there's no way I would have left that until tomorrow, or even later tonight - but I also wouldn't say it's an immediately life-threatening emergency like the possibly blocked cat in the other thread this afternoon... :Shifty

Anyway, it's moot now - hopefully @Little-moomin will update us soon.


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## lorilu

I concede that my wording could have been better. Cats hide pain and illness until they are in such agony or suffering, it can no longer be hidden.

I, still, would consider that foot swelling an emergency. Since you all are in the UK perhaps you don't know about the three cats who lost their paws because after being declawed the bandages on all three cats were put on too tight.


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## Ceiling Kitty

lorilu said:


> I concede that my wording could have been better. Cats hide pain and illness until they are in such agony or suffering, it can no longer be hidden.
> 
> I, still, would consider that foot swelling an emergency. Since you all are in the UK perhaps you don't know about the three cats who lost their paws because after being declawed the bandages on all three cats were put on too tight.


Not specifically no, but I've seen my fair share of damage from bandages (and I've also seen plenty of fat paws). IME it's when the problem is ignored or unnoticed that irreversible damage results - although I'm now interested in digging through the literature to see if there are any figures on how long exactly is too long etc...

I'm supposed to be revising gastro lol!

Hope Billy is OK @Little-moomin, thinking of him xxc


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## Little-moomin

Billy is doing well. The vet nurse was lovely and took it off his leg. She put a bandage on with some pressure which we took off an hour ago.

Paw is still big so every now and again I'll massage it gently. He was perky this evening though and was keen for his dinner.

@Ceiling Kitty thank you so much for your reply. You're a vet nurse aren't you? Do you know any supplement/ food/ things we could use to increase Bill's iron levels whilst he is alive? And this is very random, but have you heard of spatone? As far as Im war it is natural water high in iron from Wales. Could we give Billy that? Even diluted?


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## lorilu

Little-moomin said:


> Billy is doing well. The vet nurse was lovely and took it off his leg. She put a bandage on with some pressure which we took off an hour ago.
> 
> Paw is still big so every now and again I'll massage it gently. He was perky this evening though and was keen for his dinner.
> 
> @Ceiling Kitty thank you so much for your reply. You're a vet nurse aren't you? Do you know any supplement/ food/ things we could use to increase Bill's iron levels whilst he is alive? And this is very random, but have you heard of spatone? As far as Im war it is natural water high in iron from Wales. Could we give Billy that? Even diluted?


Thanks for the update. In case Ceiling Kitty isn't around (I believe she is supposed to be studying haha) I will answer for her, she is a qualified vet.


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## Little-moomin

Thanks Lorilu  It's amazing, we're so lucky to have someone as qualified as her around to help us all out!


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## Jess Pryce

Glad everything was ok


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