# Budget Dog food?



## MutleyandBrian (Jan 21, 2010)

Can anyone recommend a good budget dog food? My dog is not fussy so does not have to be any particular flavour!


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

When i didn't have a lot of money (not that i have a lot now) i fed my dog on wagg and he was ok on it


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

We have fed our big ones on Wagg for years and they are fine on it.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

I think you can get a 15kg bag for about £10


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## MutleyandBrian (Jan 21, 2010)

I've heard a lot of people talk about wagg. I mostly feed supermarket own brand of something cheap from the local PetPlace but would like to feed something that actually might be good for him! Its for my lab and he will eat anything since he was 'done' and does not suffer with a dicky tummy unlike when he was a pup and would regularly pebble dash my kitchen walls and floor! Yuck!


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi,not sure how much of a 'budget' food you are after.However,this is a good food and very reasonable.If you are feeding only one dog,itll work out very reasonable.
You could always contact them and see if they have stockists near you,which would bring down the delivery charge too.
Natural Champ! Adult - CSJ Champ! - CSJK9 Ltd.
Mine are also labs and do very well on it.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

I would give Wagg a go then


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## huskiesaregreat (Sep 24, 2009)

nice  lol


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## MutleyandBrian (Jan 21, 2010)

Thanks for the advice. Think I will try Wagg when I next go to the shops. I have two dogs to feed but one is smaller than a cat so really only have about one and a quarter dogs!


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## huskiesaregreat (Sep 24, 2009)

Dr Johns is another cheap one which i found to be okay

i dont feed mine dry food anymore though, just raw meat


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## huskiesaregreat (Sep 24, 2009)

Dr Johns Gold or Dr Johns Silver
prices range from £7.99 silver for 15kg to about £8.99 or 9.99 for gold
last time i bought it anyway...


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Wag was on special in Asda not so long ago £5 a bag


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## huskiesaregreat (Sep 24, 2009)

tashi said:


> Wag was on special in Asda not so long ago £5 a bag


thats good


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

You also have to take into consideration how much you feed. Wagg might be cheap but you'd feed more than the likes of CSJ because it has a much lower meat content. So it might not actually work out cheaper in the long run.

Have a look at both the CSJ and skinners. vetuk sell a 15kg bag of skinners (the hypoallergenic duck and rice one) for £19, and you feed 100g per 8kg of the dogs body weight. Not sure about eh CSJ guide but I'm sure someone will be able to post it.

The benefit of spending this extra £5-£10 on skinners or CSJ is crap free food (still has fillers, as so almost all kibbles, but no additives) so no hyper dog, less waste (IE poo) since the dogs system will actually use the majority of the food. And it lasts longe because you feed less.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Mine have had Wagg during hard times and they were fine on it  I know Wilkinsons have 2.5kg bags for 97p at the minute which is amazing.


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

A 15kg bag of wagg lasts 5 of my dogs a week.


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

Indie said:


> A 15kg bag of wagg lasts 5 of my dogs a week.


What sort of dogs have you got? That seems a lot.

I am using Jollyes own brand 40% chicken at the moment, which is £22 a sack. It has been lasting my three Goldens two weeks, but I am about to cut the amount down slightly as they are startng to look a bit porky since they have been on it (few months)


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## Indie (Nov 6, 2007)

jackson said:


> What sort of dogs have you got? That seems a lot.
> 
> I am using Jollyes own brand 40% chicken at the moment, which is £22 a sack. It has been lasting my three Goldens two weeks, but I am about to cut the amount down slightly as they are startng to look a bit porky since they have been on it (few months)


2 CC's, Standard Poodle, Siberian Husky and a Rough Collie.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

When my lot were on it a 2.5kg bag lasted about 2 1/2 days  I have a small to medium collie cross, a large GSD and a giant mastiff pup


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## love_my_pets (Feb 2, 2010)

I have a staffie pup and a chi x JR and was wondering the same. 
I have been feeding my pup Eukanuba and my chi x JR JWB but it;s starting to get expensive. I want to give them the best food possible but as one is on puppy food and the other on senior.


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## BunBon (Oct 30, 2008)

Chappie is pretty reasonabley priced, it was suggested to me by my vet as a low fat highly digestible food for my beagle who has a sensative tum and often suffers from skin allergies. He has been great on it.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

BunBon said:


> Chappie is pretty reasonabley priced, it was suggested to me by my vet as a low fat highly digestible food for my beagle who has a sensative tum and often suffers from skin allergies. He has been great on it.


I always keep a tin of this in the cupboard as my mastiff is reknown for getting an iffy stomach. :thumbup1:


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Is that a mastiff in your pic?


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> Is that a mastiff in your pic?


Yes her name is Luna


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

I get 15kg sacks of Wagg from Booker Cash and Carry, its only like £6 a bag. I get through 1 bag a month with my greyhounds.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Fizz used to have Burgess supadog...it's a 15 kg sack for about 11 quid and it comes in sensitive, puppy, active, senior it's really good stuff imo
Clare xx


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> Fizz used to have Burgess supadog...it's a 15 kg sack for about 11 quid and it comes in sensitive, puppy, active, senior it's really good stuff imo
> Clare xx


Tried that as well lol don't think there's anything I haven't tried over the years :laugh:


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

sequeena said:


> Yes her name is Luna


A mastiff or Bullmastiff? She looks very small for a mastiff.....


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

All food that is produced for working dogs is VAT free. I used to get 15kg bags of Super Greyhound for ridiculously cheap; about £8-£9. Now he's officially a Senior I do pay quite a lot more but still try and get working dog food - I usually buy Burns, their VAT free Canine Alert is very good for seniors as well as working dogs and while it's not cheap it is comparatively, and lasts a long time - I do have to feed less and it's good for keeping down the old paunch


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## ricky_ponting (Dec 28, 2009)

Bully sticks will be in your budget. Bully sticks are well-liked among dog possessors who prefer safe and healthy chews for their pets. It is delicious, natural, and healthy treat for pet. Its supplements are also very advantageous for pets diet. It is 100% organic.


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## Murphyandfi (Oct 9, 2009)

I feed Wagg Worker to my collie who does well on it. He suffers colitis with the higher meat content quality foods like James Wellbeloved and Arden Grange. Wagg is cheap and easy to get hold of.


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## Fuzzbugs!x (Jan 18, 2010)

We went through a skint patch for a while a few years ago - we only had our Golden Retriever, Bailey then and he went from being on Science Plan to Wagg lol. It didn't seem to bother him in the slightest - he was a bit more hyper but that was all. x


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## rachy86xx (Sep 24, 2009)

mine is on Wagg at the moment, and gets about half a tin of butchers mixed in with it most days. It is cheap and cheerful, and I can see no bad affects of him being on it, but you DO need to feed more compared to a more expensive food so its not as cheap as you first think.

decks is 11.5kg and wagg reccomends 200-400g a day (i think) for dogs weighing between 10 and 20kg.

had some samples of burns the other week, and they reccomended 100-200g for the same weight range... 

I'm going to check out the CSJ food myself and see if its possible to get a sample of it, so if I do i'll let you know.


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

muffin is on wagg and occasionally gets a tin of chappie as a treat. i got a 12kg bag from asda last month for £5 and there`s still loads in it


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## rachy86xx (Sep 24, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> muffin is on wagg and occasionally gets a tin of chappie as a treat. i got a 12kg bag from asda last month for £5 and there`s still loads in it


Decks won't eat chappie see, he turns his nose up at it. he likes butchers though, and occasionally I buy him nature diet. i'd like to feed him nature diet more often, but i've cut down the amount of wet food he gets so i think the ND would go off before i could feed it. I had 2 2.5kg bags of wagg last week as it was on offer in morrisons for £1 a bag


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

rachy86xx said:


> Decks won't eat chappie see, he turns his nose up at it. he likes butchers though, and occasionally I buy him nature diet. i'd like to feed him nature diet more often, but i've cut down the amount of wet food he gets so i think the ND would go off before i could feed it. I had 2 2.5kg bags of wagg last week as it was on offer in morrisons for £1 a bag


and you never told me??? this just proves though that it`s muffin darting snacks that cause her poo to be so smelly since decks has the same food. muffin loves wagg and chappie, i normally give her chappie on a sunday as a treat i love the smell lol


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Rachy hi,the csj people are lovely,and if you tell them youd like a few days worth of samples,they usually send a good amount to try (they even throw in the odd treat occaisionally too!) They do a large variety of different foods to meet different needs.Iv been really lucky and mine are doing great on one of their cheaper foods,the natural champ.(the first time iv ever found a food that all three will enjoy and be healthy on).


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## rachy86xx (Sep 24, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> and you never told me??? this just proves though that it`s muffin darting snacks that cause her poo to be so smelly since decks has the same food. muffin loves wagg and chappie, i normally give her chappie on a sunday as a treat i love the smell lol


aww sorry i didn't think! blame sarah, she knew aswell! lol.

he can have particularly pungeant poos mind! but the more snacks he gets the worse i find it!


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## bevstretton (Jan 12, 2010)

You can cook your peeled veg, rice and add fish or meat, do not use salt though, some supermarkets have special offers on turkeys, cook it ready and freeze until needed.
Fasting your dog once a week, providing it is healthy, not old or has cancer, is also very good for your dog, make sure there is always plenty of water and exercise.


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## rachy86xx (Sep 24, 2009)

Bearpaw said:


> Rachy hi,the csj people are lovely,and if you tell them youd like a few days worth of samples,they usually send a good amount to try (they even throw in the odd treat occaisionally too!) They do a large variety of different foods to meet different needs.Iv been really lucky and mine are doing great on one of their cheaper foods,the natural champ.(the first time iv ever found a food that all three will enjoy and be healthy on).


aw thanks, i will give them a ring/email later! i was hoping they might have a supplier close to me but they don't 

Decks liked the burns but its just a bit too pricey for us at the moment so this looks like a good option for us


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

rachy86xx said:


> aww sorry i didn't think! blame sarah, she knew aswell! lol.
> 
> he can have particularly pungeant poos mind! but the more snacks he gets the worse i find it!


she was never particularly smelly till we got pepsi and wet food was introduced to the cats (twix doesn`t like it so i never bothered before)

fasting a dog?? is that possible  i think muffin would eat me if i tried to deprive her of food lol


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Rachy,it may be worth asking if they deliver to someone near you,then you could order at the same time.
there isnt a registered supplier near me,but i found one by word of mouth,so i can pick it up whenever i need some.


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## rachy86xx (Sep 24, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> she was never particularly smelly till we got pepsi and wet food was introduced to the cats (twix doesn`t like it so i never bothered before)
> 
> fasting a dog?? is that possible  i think muffin would eat me if i tried to deprive her of food lol


Decks regularly fasts of his own accord lol. every few weeks he'll have a day of not really eating. never harmed him lol.

does she eat the cats food?



Bearpaw said:


> Rachy,it may be worth asking if they deliver to someone near you,then you could order at the same time.
> there isnt a registered supplier near me,but i found one by word of mouth,so i can pick it up whenever i need some.


oh yeah good idea!!


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

rachy86xx said:


> Decks regularly fasts of his own accord lol. every few weeks he'll have a day of not really eating. never harmed him lol.
> 
> does she eat the cats food?
> 
> oh yeah good idea!!


nope she eats what comes out the other end  there`s nowhere we can put the cats trays that she can`t get to them so we try to keep a close eye on her but sometimes she`s so fast


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## rachy86xx (Sep 24, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> nope she eats what comes out the other end  there`s nowhere we can put the cats trays that she can`t get to them so we try to keep a close eye on her but sometimes she`s so fast


ahhh that might explain it then! silly muffin!


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

rachy86xx said:


> ahhh that might explain it then! silly muffin!


i know i`ve just hoovered some up from the carpet i opened the stair gate and i seen a blur go past me . she`s a strange one


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> A mastiff or Bullmastiff? She looks very small for a mastiff.....


Mastiff. She is only 6 months old  and that pic was taken when she was just coming up to 4 months.

Leah the wagg isn't on offer anymore in Morrisons but Wilkinsons have the same 2.5kg bags for 97p while stocks last


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Just to add I don't have a digital camera to show you her full size but she is 27.6kg growing every day and is 24 inches to the shoulder.

This pic will have to do for now


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

She's gorgeous, but she really looks like a BM to me. :smile5:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> She's gorgeous, but she really looks like a BM to me. :smile5:


She's not. English mastiff/dogue de bordeaux.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

AAAAHHHHHH...... DDB cross. Now it makes sense. She's beautiful.


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> AAAAHHHHHH...... DDB cross. Now it makes sense. She's beautiful.


LOL thanks. I honestly can't see the DDB in her but she def has the personality. She looks so much like her dad.

Actually I think the only thing she took from her mum is her coat colouring. You can't see it well in the webcam pic but she's not the traditional sandy colour she's much closer to orange


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

I guess its her ears that make me think first. EM youngsters usually have massive ears lol.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

See what I mean







oops sorry for hijacking :blush2:


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Just to add - sorry if I annoyed you by saying she was a BM. My dogs get mistaken for all sorts lol. BM's can be very red too, which helped to confused me lol (its easy done  )


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

LOL yes sorry for overtaking the thread 

It's ok easy mistake to make  I had a warning sign made up for her and guess what I had to use because it was closest to her colour


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## em007 (Sep 29, 2009)

Gusto is meant to be cheap and quite good i heard you dont pay the vat so its really cheap and i think they sell it in tesco
now


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

The cheapest quality budget dog food - after quite a search is the Vitalin Lifestyle Range in my view. Ive questioned the company via mail on ingredients and their Lamb sensitive kibble receives a 4* rating on independent reviews beating a lot of the more expensive competition such as JWB. Im going to move my pup to it once hes about 16mths and will more than likely stay with it for a good few years. For 32 pounds delivered for 15kg you wont find better. Good meat, no grain (in adult formula), no artificial preservatives or colours, in any of their foods at any stage and a small UK manufacturer. 
Thats my recommendation


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

£32?? I could spend £2 more and get Arden Grange


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

The premium vitalin range is easily as good as Arden Grange. I have my pregnant girl on their bitch food. But I don't suppose its a budget food.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

sequeena said:


> £32?? I could spend £2 more and get Arden Grange


You could spend 2 pounds more and get a load of maize and rice too - this is all ive seen with Argen grange but if you want to point one out that doesnt, I may have missed one?
Theres no grain in Vitalins adult kibble (in lifestyle range) though there is maize germ in their senstive lamb but its 3rd or 4th on the list and not the whole corn  quite good with 33% lamb meal


luvmydogs said:


> The premium vitalin range is easily as good as Arden Grange. I have my pregnant girl on their bitch food. But I don't suppose its a budget food.


Ive just got a mail back from them, I was wonderin if Ethoxyquin (a carcinogen) was used as a preservative, its not and its very rare to find a kibble at this price that doesnt, nothing artificial added to it whatsoever, im quite impressed with it tbh


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

AG is probably one of the best foods my dogs have ever had. It's a lot better than a lot of foods too  But I hardly call £32 budget food.

Budget food James, budget :laugh:


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

but for the most they have maize either as a primary or secondary ingredient. I think 30 pounds for 15kg is a very good budget level kibble - anything else and you might as well throw the packaging in there for roughage!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

james1 said:


> but for the most they have maize either as a primary or secondary ingredient. I think 30 pounds for 15kg is a very good budget level kibble - anything else and you might as well throw the packaging in there for roughage!


:lol: We all want the best nutrition for our furry buds but £30+ will be way out of some peoples budgets each month


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

tbh the cheapest food i've found is raw food, just worked out kiras diet plan and it's about £13pm using landywoods  cant beat that for the best food you could possibly feed lol 

thats for a balanced diet too, no cereals, additives or anything 

I did feed wagg puppy at one point tho and thought it was ok... not major problems with it, i wasnt comfortable feeding fully raw then tho, but since she was about 7 months shes been on full raw and we're reaping the benefits lol


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

lady_r0gue said:


> All food that is produced for working dogs is VAT free. I used to get 15kg bags of Super Greyhound for ridiculously cheap; about £8-£9. Now he's officially a Senior I do pay quite a lot more but still try and get working dog food - I usually buy Burns, their VAT free Canine Alert is very good for seniors as well as working dogs and while it's not cheap it is comparatively, and lasts a long time - I do have to feed less and it's good for keeping down the old paunch


The only problem with feeding greyhound food is it is often very high in protein as it is designed for dogs in training. You need to find one that is made for convalesing dogs which will have lower protein levels. Also I was told by one shop I asked about getting it from is that they should actually charge you VAT if they know your are not a greyhound trainer. Needless to say I get mine from a different shop.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

sid&kira said:


> tbh the cheapest food i've found is raw food, just worked out kiras diet plan and it's about £13pm using landywoods  cant beat that for the best food you could possibly feed lol
> 
> thats for a balanced diet too, no cereals, additives or anything
> 
> I did feed wagg puppy at one point tho and thought it was ok... not major problems with it, i wasnt comfortable feeding fully raw then tho, but since she was about 7 months shes been on full raw and we're reaping the benefits lol


are you including all the brocolli and peppers you taled about? hope ive got the right member.. or are you just feeding carcasses?

cheers


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

I pay £27 for a 15kg bag arden grange now bargin! for if in bulk £50 for 2 15kg bags works out not much dearer then alot of budget foods a they dont need as much food!

Although CSJ is excellent budget food, if i didnt have to pay £7 for it to be delivered they would still be on that. i just got fed up pf paying nearly the same amount for delivery as i was paying for the bag of food!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Daynna said:


> I pay £27 for a 15kg bag arden grange now bargin! for if in bulk £50 for 2 15kg bags works out not much dearer then alot of budget foods a they dont need as much food!
> 
> Although CSJ is excellent budget food, if i didnt have to pay £7 for it to be delivered they would still be on that. i just got fed up pf paying nearly the same amount for delivery as i was paying for the bag of food!


How do you get your AG so cheap?  The cheapest I could find was £34


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

james1 said:


> are you including all the brocolli and peppers you taled about? hope ive got the right member.. or are you just feeding carcasses?
> 
> cheers


nope i cant say i feed much veg, she gets it a couple of times a week but that cost isnt included as it just offcuts of veg from when we eat it

i feed a mixture of chicken carcuss, chicken mince, tripe, beef mince, lamb mince, turkey wings, chicken wings, turkey necks, lamb breast on bone, heart, kidney, liver...

imo just feeding carcusses is definately not balanced....


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

sequeena said:


> How do you get your AG so cheap?  The cheapest I could find was £34


Vetuk sell the lamb arden grange for about £24, it's often on offer for a little lower too. I order it for a few family members, buy two bags, get free delivery, so they have never paid over £25 for a bag of AG.

Link for anyone interested

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62_334_336&products_id=1917


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## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

Lyceum said:


> Vetuk sell the lamb arden grange for about £24, it's often on offer for a little lower too. I order it for a few family members, buy two bags, get free delivery, so they have never paid over £25 for a bag of AG.


thank you, gonna have a look now


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## em007 (Sep 29, 2009)

gusto is between £5 and £7 for a 10kg bag dried food thats budget shopping


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## lifeizsweet (Jun 7, 2009)

em007 said:


> gusto is between £5 and £7 for a 10kg bag dried food thats budget shopping


my dog LOVES gusto, he's a really fussy pup, he'd rather starve than eat food he doesn't like. But he'll eat gusto like there is no tomorrow


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## em007 (Sep 29, 2009)

yeah i read up on it,its not bad stuff. i used to feed them something else but where i got it from stopped selling it and the advised me to go for gusto and thats what i did they like it.


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

sequeena said:


> How do you get your AG so cheap?  The cheapest I could find was £34


My local do-it-all shop they sell everything and anything, he used to orders us the puppy for £35, but i told him i could the adult for under £28 (ebay do it for £27.99 of one bag) and i didnt want to pay more then that so he did it £1 cheaper lol!


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

theres alpha dog food its realy quite cheap only problem i have is my pet shop can never get it in so i feed ellie wagg at the moment tho i have pal...she eats it like theres no tomoro but id rather giv her wagg!! they just didnt have any in as it was on a sale! alpha has many types too to suit all dogs heres a link to alpha first ingredient is meat... The finest food for your pets


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

I think somewhere it should be said that if you were to eat cheeseburgers all day long your not going to be in the best of health.
Most of these kibbles are so cheap because their ingredients are largely grain based and not what the dog needs. Dogs need meat protein not starch in creating energy. These cheap foods should be avoided really; besides grains, its pretty likely they contain added artifical preservatives (similar to processed foods) that do not do any good at all. 
If youve got a dog - its under your care, its your respnsibility to have it in good health.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

james1 said:


> I think somewhere it should be said that if you were to eat cheeseburgers all day long your not going to be in the best of health.
> Most of these kibbles are so cheap because their ingredients are largely grain based and not what the dog needs. Dogs need meat protein not starch in creating energy. These cheap foods should be avoided really; besides grains, its pretty likely they contain added artifical preservatives (similar to processed foods) that do not do any good at all.
> If youve got a dog - its under your care, its your respnsibility to have it in good health.


I also think cheap foods are a false economy, they eat more because the ingredients are mostly fillers, so you buy more and end up paying more in the long run.

Still, sometimes circumstances change, meaning people have less cash and you don't really have a choice but to do the best with what you have.

I look after my dogs and cats to the best of my ability, and it is proving difficult finding a balance between good food that actually suits them, and good food that's affordable and value for money.

God, dog foods a mine field isn't it lol.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

james1 said:


> I think somewhere it should be said that if you were to eat cheeseburgers all day long your not going to be in the best of health.
> Most of these kibbles are so cheap because their ingredients are largely grain based and not what the dog needs. Dogs need meat protein not starch in creating energy. These cheap foods should be avoided really; besides grains, its pretty likely they contain added artifical preservatives (similar to processed foods) that do not do any good at all.
> If youve got a dog - its under your care, its your respnsibility to have it in good health.


great post james, however i think we have to be a little more considerate of those on a budget, these are hard times atm, lots of people losing or struggling to find work, and many on here have more than one dog, or large breeds, feeding a high quality kibble is just not possible at £30+ a bag unfortunately, especially not for more than one dog. We cant say that those who cant afford it aren't doing the best for their dog, they are doing the best they can with the resources they have.

I prefer to feed raw (bare in mind im a RAW feeder, not a BARF feeder) for a variety of reasons, i like to know whats going into the food, i refuse to feed anything artificial (colours, flavours, preservatives, additives) and I dont like paying out for fillers.... The money i spend on Kiras diet goes on quality ingredients, all human grade meat, nothing added, and the main reason i feed it is because she enjoys it, and becomes very fussy very quick with kibble.

If you are feeding kibble, look at the ingredients, try to choose a food that has some meat product (such as lamb or poultry, rather than meat meal or meat & animal derivatives) as the 1st ingredient, if it has cereals as the 1st ingredient steer clear. Also try to get ones without corn, as corn is the ingredient which seems to be the worst cereal for causing allergic reactions, its also virtually indigestable.

But the big one to look out for is artificial colours, flavours and preservatives, and EEC permitted additives, there are LOADS of these additives, literally hundreds, and the companys dont have to tell you how many or which ones are in the food, the worst thing is that some of these additives are known to be cancer causing, but they're still allowed to be put into commercial foods  

Remember that all commercial food is only tested for 6 months, to see if it will keep the animal alive for that long, NOT healthy, just alive... if the dog's alive at the end of the testing period it is allowed to be labled as 'complete and healthy'


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

sid&kira said:


> great post james, however i think we have to be a little more considerate of those on a budget, these are hard times atm, lots of people losing or struggling to find work, and many on here have more than one dog, or large breeds, feeding a high quality kibble is just not possible at £30+ a bag unfortunately, especially not for more than one dog. We cant say that those who cant afford it aren't doing the best for their dog, they are doing the best they can with the resources they have.
> 
> I prefer to feed raw (bare in mind im a RAW feeder, not a BARF feeder) for a variety of reasons, i like to know whats going into the food, i refuse to feed anything artificial (colours, flavours, preservatives, additives) and I dont like paying out for fillers.... The money i spend on Kiras diet goes on quality ingredients, all human grade meat, nothing added, and the main reason i feed it is because she enjoys it, and becomes very fussy very quick with kibble.
> 
> ...


Nothing at all to do with the thread, just had to say your dog is absolutely stunning.


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Some good advice there sid&kira.
I also think it would be fair to say though,that not all foods suit all dogs.Just because you buy an expensive food,doesnt mean it will suit your dog.I tried mine on origen,AG,JW and a couple of others over the years,and it just didnt suit my dogs at all.After a reccommendation(for health reasons),they are now on csj natural champ and are in fab condition with less from the waste point of view also.So,it wasnt through not wanting to feed a more expensive food,just that this is the one that suited best.
For the price though,i am pleased with it,as it doesnt have lots of additives,flavourings etc.Although i do realise it does have a fair amount of bulkers in comparison to more expensive foods.
As long as my dogs are healthy and happy on what they are on,im happy.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

Lyceum said:


> Nothing at all to do with the thread, just had to say your dog is absolutely stunning.


lol ty very much  shes my baby lol


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

I think the biggest mistake people make is looking at the price of dog food as in x ammount of food fow x ammount of £££££. look at the price per day, when i say i pay between £42 and £46 for a 15kg bag its but when i say it costs 60p a day to feed 1 dog the think that is reasonable and thats because you dont have to feed as much of the good stuff so most of all the cheap food is exactly that its false ecomomy.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

haeveymolly said:


> I think the biggest mistake people make is looking at the price of dog food as in x ammount of food fow x ammount of £££££. look at the price per day, when i say i pay between £42 and £46 for a 15kg bag its but when i say it costs 60p a day to feed 1 dog the think that is reasonable and thats because you dont have to feed as much of the good stuff so most of all the cheap food is exactly that its false ecomomy.


thats why i love raw, it costs me 43p per day to feed a medium breed dog, and none of it goes to waste cuz its not eaten lol

the problem i found with feeding dry is that i couldnt get up the £30+ all at once, i get paid weekly and have most of that go straight away on other things like getting to college and food, so if i can pay out 10-15 then i can do that at once, but any more than that isnt possible


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

sid&kira said:


> thats why i love raw, it costs me 43p per day to feed a medium breed dog, and none of it goes to waste cuz its not eaten lol
> 
> the problem i found with feeding dry is that i couldnt get up the £30+ all at once, i get paid weekly and have most of that go straight away on other things like getting to college and food, so if i can pay out 10-15 then i can do that at once, but any more than that isnt possible


Yes i understand that, you have to have the money in the first place but anyone that has its sctually cheaper to buy the more expensive in the long run.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

haeveymolly said:


> I think the biggest mistake people make is looking at the price of dog food as in x ammount of food fow x ammount of £££££. look at the price per day, when i say i pay between £42 and £46 for a 15kg bag its but when i say it costs 60p a day to feed 1 dog the think that is reasonable and thats because you dont have to feed as much of the good stuff so most of all the cheap food is exactly that its false ecomomy.


exactly, its not what you pay but what you put into making sure thay have good health from what you give. Whether circumstances are hard or not ive made sacrifices to make sure they are getting what I think is best in a hole manner of ways.
As sid&kira mentioned : If someone has more dogs than they can afford then in my view that shows poor ownership. But im a stickler for doing whats right. 
I did post a food that for 30 pounds is far and wide a great food... i said in my earlier post, ive done a lot of scouring and ive only just posted a recommendation for Vitalin lifestyle after a good 4 months of pretty much daily searching over foods.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

James, did you look at this ne? Gelert Pet Nutrition for Dog Food , Puppy Food and General Pet Nutrition The guy at my pet shop reckons its as good as vitalin.


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

james1 said:


> As sid&kira mentioned : If someone has more dogs than they can afford then in my view that shows poor ownership. But im a stickler for doing whats right.


I cant say i want to be associated with that comment as its not at all what i said, and i also think thats very unfair.

As i said, we're in the middle of a recession, people get pets when they have enough money to pay for them, when we loose a job or take a pay cut do we just give up our family members? No, we do the best we can with what we have. People arent going to be this hard up forever.

Im currently struggling with my reptiles, i used to volunteer in a reptile shop and got free/cheap food so they got loads of food. However the shop has sinced closed down after a break in and yea im struggling, they still get fed, not as much as before but luckily i have geckos and each have a healthy fat store, so it doesnt matter if they go for a week or 2 without food. And no i wont get rid of them, because in a few months i'll be looking at getting a full time job, and until then i will do the best i can.

Besides, some dogs do well on the cheaper *crap* food, does that mean that they should be called bad owners because they buy cheap food?

I feed raw, but that doesnt make me a better owner than someone who feeds wagg...


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

luvmydogs said:


> James, did you look at this ne? Gelert Pet Nutrition for Dog Food , Puppy Food and General Pet Nutrition The guy at my pet shop reckons its as good as vitalin.


this is like barking heads... they put up 20% fresh meat (fish) but this is before cooking...80% water in meat means after cooking its only a few % actual meat protein literally. Vitalin uses meat meal which has less water in it - means your actually getting more meat protein although this will be made up of bone, offcuts and carcass residue.. no nasties though.
Have to say on my hunts i havent come across this... Ive just clicked for more detail and id guess around 20% would be maize from the remaining ingredients?
It seems a nice read for a 30 pound kibble. If you dont mind a bit of rice and limited maize it looks ok, I wouldnt say it would out do Vitalin though. Good that it doesnt have a delivery charge for UK mainland but id spend then extra 3 pounds..


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

sid&kira said:


> I cant say i want to be associated with that comment as its not at all what i said, and i also think thats very unfair.


No sorry that is my opinion didnt mean for it to be taken out of context.

My View! LOL
If someone has more dogs than they can afford they should sort the problem out.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Cheers James :smile5:


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

lol ... was just going to add to my last.



Im so misunderstood!!!!! hahah  written a couple of things where people have taken it personal tonight lol :smile5:


edit: if you see a kibble lovemydogs with a good meal content - give me a shout please


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Its difficult when using the written word, people have to guess what tone of voice we are using etc. 70% of human communication is visual.


james1 said:


> if you see a kibble lovemydogs with a good meal content - give me a shout please


will do.


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## dhaxelbarqs (Feb 5, 2010)

i feed my dog with milk and pedegre biscuits which i get in our area.i think that is with in my budget.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

luvmydogs said:


> Its difficult when using the written word, people have to guess what tone of voice we are using etc. 70% of human communication is visual.
> will do.


I thought that was just a man thing lol lol


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## sid&kira (Oct 15, 2009)

james1 said:


> No sorry that is my opinion didnt mean for it to be taken out of context.
> 
> My View! LOL
> If someone has more dogs than they can afford they should sort the problem out.


lol sorry just sounded like you where sayin that i said that lol


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

James about this Vitalin!
As you may know I'd usually expect to pay over £30 for a 15kgbag...
This is acceptable for the length of time it lasts me (kibble only constitutes a maximum of half his diet - (he also gets Butchers, fish, raw meat and meaty bones) at around 35kg he's supposed to eat around 360g daily (if I fed him only kibble)...
At the moment I'm buying 2kg bags as we've run out of Burns Alert (which whacks the price up!)
Of course I'm looking for good meat /fish meal content... I don't like buying from the corporations (Vitalin do seem quite nice) ...And I'd quite like to try him on Lamb or really anything besides chicken - not that he has problems with chicken but I'd like to experiment! Annoyingly Burns Alert only comes in Chicken flavour.
I can put up with a little maize but would prefer to eliminate wheat from his diet - He is 9 years old so officially a senior although I actually think that the fact that Biskit has been a little prone to dandruff has been down to a lower fat content in his diet (remedied with fish oil) and he's not arthritic or slowing down yet. So I'm not fully convinced that he really needs a senior diet just so long as I keep my eye on his weight- I'm thinking perhaps the sensitive tums range may be more suited with the odd glucosamine supplement. But not sure.
Well I looked at the Vitalin briefly yesterday and found a range of 15kg bags from as low as £9.50... these all seem to contain wheat... and when I look for foods more suitable the prices jump right up to a similar price to Burns...
Any ideas or links for products that not only fit all our critera but are also more budgetable?


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## Minerva (Feb 4, 2010)

I Give my doberman Pets at home own brand dry mixer and he loves it, he even has it as treats in his treat ball toy. We mix any cheap meat roll with it and vegetables. That bulks the food up, he loves it and its good for him too.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Its the lifestyle range James is referring to. Life Stage Range : Vitalin Complete Pet Food


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Oh James there's times when I wish you would go boil your head  because you're a grade A idiot


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

lady_r0gue said:


> ]
> Well I looked at the Vitalin briefly yesterday and found a range of 15kg bags from as low as £9.50... these all seem to contain wheat... and when I look for foods more suitable the prices jump right up to a similar price to Burns...
> Any ideas or links for products that not only fit all our critera but are also more budgetable?


yes they do their original formula - that what they started the business with and introduced the lifestyle range more recently. link below:
Life Stage Range : Vitalin Complete Pet Food

The lamb sensitive has maize germ in not the full corn so I doubt this swells up as much in the gut (really trying to find an answer on this for definite) there is some info that says the germ is the bulk source of the protein in maize too. Otherwise the Adult forumla has no grain in it but is chicken based.

Just had a quick search...its currently on offer here for 22 pound down from 29. Free delivery too 
15kg Vitalin Lamb & Rice Complete Adult Dog Food


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Oh James there's times when I wish you would go boil your head  because you're a grade A idiot


and feed it to your dogs?? there will be no meaty bits on it im afraid - im far too ribby


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

james1 said:


> and feed it to your dogs?? there will be no meaty bits on it im afraid - im far too ribby


Oh no sorry, can't go giving cooked bones to my 3 :lol:


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Oh no sorry, can't go giving cooked bones to my 3 :lol:


shame - im very tastey on the whole


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

Of course provided that the nutrient levels were within the desired range if you were to grind it down to a meal prior to cooking it should be ok to feed? :lol:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

Don't think the nutrients are in the desired range pmsl :laugh:


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## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

My pup is currently eating Wagg as this is what he was weaned onto, so I had to continue to feed him this as I didnt want to change his food and risk an upset stomache.
I could have got a 2.5 bag for 97p at wilkinsons, but I ended up getting it from my corner shop which cost 2.39p and it has lasted a week so far, but theres a few days worth left in the bag.
So its worked out really cheap for our first week,even tho we didnt buy the cheaper bag and he seems very happy and content eating it, with no upset tummy or dodgy poos.

I do plan to change him onto something else, but Im not sure what yet, but I dont plan to change his main food for a few months yet


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## chestersmum (Sep 18, 2009)

Hi James

in your opinion do you not think barking heads is any good ?


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

its an ok food chestermum but it doesnt warrant the price in my view


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

sequeena said:


> Don't think the nutrients are in the desired range pmsl :laugh:


feels slighlty wounded, im not the mincer type all


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

james1 said:


> feels slighlty wounded, im not the mincer type all


PMSL you know we love ya really


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

sequeena said:


> PMSL you know we love ya really


"something to get your teeth into"
Far to rich for your dogs :001_tt2:


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

james1 said:


> "something to get your teeth into"
> Far to rich for your dogs :001_tt2:


 Stop pushing your luck or I'll have to sharpen my pitchfork


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## chestersmum (Sep 18, 2009)

Thanks James. Apart from orijen which would u say are better than barking heads value and ingredient wise?


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

My choice apart from the high end Orijen for value, ingredients, price, nothing added or atrifically preserved would be Vitalin lifestyle adult or lamb sensitive its got 4* out of 6* in an independent review better than many larger more expensive brands. Orijen has 6* and is still very well priced really


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## chestersmum (Sep 18, 2009)

Think I'm going to order a trial bag of orijen. Just waiting to hear back from them as to which is the best one to order to get a bit of weight off Chester 

Thanks for your help


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

James, which independant review did you get the info from?


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

its been posted on here a few times 'dog food analysis study'? something like it - are you familiar with it or should i hunt it down ..


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Yes I'm familiar with that but when I looked I couldn't find the Vitalin lifestyle range on there.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

yes just looked at it again, I couldnt either on first looking so ran through them a - z and it appears. Just looked now to confirm ... its actually only 3 star rated, my bad. I cant find the adult one though... ?
Dog Food Reviews - Vitalin Lamb & Rice - Powered by ReviewPost


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Yes it was the cereal free one I wanted to look up. Ah well.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

cant see where it is - i did think it were 4* though - i prefer the cereal free one myself - though the sensitive looks ok with 33% lamb... dont know where its gone..?


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

james1 said:


> yes just looked at it again, I couldnt either on first looking so ran through them a - z and it appears. Just looked now to confirm ... its actually only 3 star rated, my bad. I cant find the adult one though... ?
> Dog Food Reviews - Vitalin Lamb & Rice - Powered by ReviewPost


Looking on that site Vitalin doesn't get a 'recommended', but is 3* kibble, but Arden grange lamb and rice is listed as 4* and gets a 'yes' under recommended.

Dog Food Reviews - Arden Grange Adult Lamb & Rice - Powered by ReviewPost

I'm not expert so the ingredients look similar to me. So I don't really understand why one gets a yes and the other a no. 

God dog food gives me a headache lol.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

i never bothered looking over AG as i knew there were corn in it. A headache indeed!!!! crikey lol thanks for that though! lol Just read the "an adult dog should be fed *about* 329g" another Headache lol


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

james1 said:


> i never bothered looking over AG as i knew there were corn in it. A headache indeed!!!! crikey lol thanks for that though!


lol, be interested to hear your opinion on the AG lamb as you're obviously a lot more knowledgeable on the subject than me.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Its quite fatty - 16% when its only got 30% lamb meal, this will mean the chicken fat further down the ingredients is quite high, dont mean to keep mentioning vitalin but thier lamb one is 33% lamb meal with only 12% fat. For one reason or another though I just dont like AG - dont know why, though looking at it now and knowing what it sells for its not that bad. It does have the full maize cron in which might be whats putting me off it (with the bloat issue) but the people that feed it on here dont seem to have issue with it. Its well priced but id really like a kibble without maize (as its hard to digest) I prefer rice if any.  Seems to have good suppliments in it too ..


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

james1 said:


> Its quite fatty - 16% when its only got 30% lamb meal, this will mean the chicken fat further down the ingredients is quite high, dont mean to keep mentioning vitalin but thier lamb one is 33% lamb meal with only 12% fat. For one reason or another though I just dont like AG - dont know why, though looking at it now and knowing what it sells for its not that bad. It does have the full maize cron in which might be whats putting me off it (with the bloat issue) but the people that feed it on here dont seem to have issue with it. Its well priced but id really like a kibble without maize (as its hard to digest) I prefer rice if any.  Seems to have good suppliments in it too ..


Thanks.

I understand not liking particular brands. I'm not a fan of JWB. But that's probably because my eldest boy didn't do very well on it. Few of my families dogs are on the AG lamb and seem to be thriving. So if I decide not to stick with orijen I may go with AG. Or go back to skinners as it did seem to suit. Vitalin does look good though, I think I'm reluctant simply because I've not heard of it before and not really heard many talk about it, but then all the current recommended brands were at one point new.

Gonna have a think for a few weeks either way before I decide. It really is a blooming mine field isn't it.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

I've contacted the dog food analysis site and asked them to review the Vitalin Adult Maintenance cereal free. I think its great, (and have tried all the premium foods) and I would like their opinion on it.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

It would be useful if they put on their foods they didnt use Ethoxyquin as a preservative. Ive told them my opinion that it would benefit customer decisions so will have to see if anythings done. AG do state this and they got 4*, this is the only difference I can see apart from Vitalin not using the full maize corn just the germ. Will be nice to see what scores they give - ill keep an eye out


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

James1 I have followed this thread with great interest and have a lot to thank you for  
I am waiting for a sample of the "great" vitalin maintenance chicken to arrive.
Think the skinners also looks quite good and got samples. Dog loves salmon and rice, not keen on duck and rice so that puts me back in the price bracket of the vitalin. It does lack in meat quantity but OH is a butcher and she gets plenty of meaty bones.

You have alerted me to the fact that I am feeding cereal and paying for the privelage. Paying more than I need to and getting 12kg instead of 15kg. 

I also have to thank you for making me come out of the woodwork (I have been lurking since getting my pup back in May)and joining in.

Sandie


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

That sounds very good - just what id do, keep the kibble as a base and give extras (as I do now) with left over meats I have from my meals  (dont think this has to be a daily thing though, the kibble looks quite solid)
Its a real mine field as far as their foods - you want good ingredients for the price your paying. I recently saw a Swedish company (they are usually dependable) with a kibble for 45 pounds - when I looked at it there were 3 or 4 different maizes in there, limited meat and possible a wheat also. Bozita I think it was? Cereals are so cheap in comparison to meat it really gets under my skin that company's can charge what they do. Hope it goes well, id think you should see the benefits, the adult maintenance looks very good for the price


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

Yep cheers james for the rec as well, I actually bought the Vitalin (lamb sensitive) after checking out that it fit all our criteria - I was feeding Burns Alert but wanted to try him on a similar kibble with lamb rather than chicken - and I must say it seems good and Biskit enjoyed it  - I'll let u know how we do with it x


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Cant wait for the vitalin sample to arrive. My dog doesnt like lamb so I chose the chicken. If she prefers this to the Skinners salmon then she will definately have the Vitalin. If not then I will get the Skinners and make up for the poor meat.
Will let you know how we get on.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

lady_r0gue said:


> Yep cheers james for the rec as well, I actually bought the Vitalin (lamb sensitive) after checking out that it fit all our criteria - I was feeding Burns Alert but wanted to try him on a similar kibble with lamb rather than chicken - and I must say it seems good and Biskit enjoyed it  - I'll let u know how we do with it x


fantastic, id love to hear how he goes with it, I had the same thoughts of burns alert but couldnt justify the 40 pound price tag with all the rice, same with skinners and their duck and rice is the only one similar though theirs is a little more ricey than Vitalins from what I remember. Its a toss up for me between the adult and the sensitive ... does it have any scent?

and same applies too Mum2heidi, id love to know how she goes with it or what your thoughts are of it


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

I reckon the cereal free one is the best of the vitalin ones by a country mile.
mum2heidi, why don't you feed raw? If my OH was a butcher there'd be no competition! A raw prey model diet is waaaaay above *any* complete meal you can buy.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I can get the Vitalin for £27 and the Skinners is £25 so not much in it. Although I think I may possibly need to feed a bit more vitalin (going by their RDA). Will wait for the sample to arrive, see which Heidi prefers and go from there. James1 I will deinfately keep you posted.

Luvmydogs, I wouldnt know where to start feeding a raw diet and would worry that she wasnt getting all the nutrients she needs so I rely on the kibble for that. I guess the fact that OH is a butcher is wasted on me.


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

james1 said:


> Its a toss up for me between the adult and the sensitive ... does it have any scent?


Well it smells a little meaty - a bit gravyish - and the kibbles seem quite solid and dark. In comparison with the fish and rice burns I'm feeding now they are darker and slightly larger. Burns F&R contains 63% rice, 18% fish meal and oats.

I even just did my own independent investigation! 

Really just because I was a bit suspicious of the maize content and wanted to see how much they bulked up in the stomach.
I doubt you could call it science but thought u might be mildly interested in my findings....

I soaked one of each kibble in fairly hot water and peered at them. At first the Vitalin seemed to expand a tiny bit more - but then it was a bit bigger than the Burns.

Then I weighed two dry kibbles - 
Vitalin = 7g 
Burns = 5g

Soaked them for about 2 mins and weighed again
Vitalin = 1.4g 
Burns = 1.4g

Then I forgot about it for a while and weighed them again and was staggered to find that 
Vitalin = 2.2g 
Burns = 2.1g

so the Vitalin swells up to over 3 x the size - and the Burns by over 4 x it's original weight! Which I reckon as far as fillers goes might actually give Vitalin the edge?!


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

But all that aside... Here is the best budget dog food...
Did I say budget? It's free from our lovely butcher man 
YouTube - Biskit The Dog Munching On Raw Meaty Bones

So that's how to start on a raw diet 

I tend to give him a raw day once or twice a week


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Blimey,Biskit loves his bones!!! Heidi gets one rib at a time - mind you she is only a bit bigger than Biskits head!

OH works in the butchery of a large supermarket so his access to bones in large quantities is limited. However, he does have a friend who runs a butchers shop and after seeing Biskit is going to get some from him so that Heidi can have them more frequently.

Thanks for the tip


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

lady_r0gue said:


> so the Vitalin swells up to over 3 x the size - and the Burns by over 4 x it's original weight! Which I reckon as far as fillers goes might actually give Vitalin the edge?!


lol your peering is much appreciated. 
Im surprised at the burns swelling so much considering its rice. I would have thought this wouldnt have swelled that much at all!!!?? The burns also matches the vitalin after 2 mins although being smaller, which means it increases faster too - how strange:huh:
Thanks very much for that, something to think about, ive done the same thing with orijen and theres simply no movement in it at all. It would explain why some people have said their dogs have looked to be scavanging on it which they dont on feeding more maizey products. Sorry to keep on asking but which was more crumbled/soggy in your opinion? The Vitalin or the Burns?

60+% rice is torturous isnt it! for the price theres very little in the way of actual meat in that. 
I have asked Vitalin about their Fishmeal (it isnt used in the sensitive) and they have said neither they or their suppliers use the Ethoxyquin as a preservative to their foods which is reassuring to know.

Id say everyone should do a hot water test on their kibble immediately! :smile5:

ps. he has some big eyes in that video lol


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

I agree with James about Orijen not swelling up with water. In the morning I feed Orijen with just a touch of warm water (for extra fluid as Henry doesn't seem to be drinking too much at the moment). The Orijen doesn't expand at all and I think James is probably right - this is why some dogs initially scavenge after coming off a cereal diet - more nutrition for less bulky food. I think all the cereal just bulks them up. Henry has adjusted to the lower feeding amounts now and I think he's getting good solid nutrition from the kibble. I give him a couple of cereal-free biscuits at lunch (JWB Crackerjacks - cereal free) or some Fish4Dogs sea jerkys/carrot to keep him going until dinner time.

Good luck with the Vitalin - seems a good kibble for the price.


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## Rooster2 (Feb 10, 2010)

archielee said:


> I think you can get a 15kg bag for about £10


As with most things in life..you tend to get what you pay for! Budget dog foods will almost certainly contain less neutrition than a premium food and therefore your dog will need to eat more of the cheap stuff to keep going which is a false economy. Plus always check out the ingredients on these cheaper foods as some contain things like 'E' numbers and bulkers that do your dog no favours and can in some cases lead to health conditions that are expensive to treat! I learnt from bitter experience and now feed my Dogs Ashenbank premium complete which contains everything a good food should and is made with real meat (not meat meal) to boot, all for about £1 a day per dog!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Where do you buy this from? I can only find one place that sells it, after their ingredients there is a reference to Bakers complete food - do you know anymore about this?


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

I thought meat meal was better than real meat in a complete?


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

well I'd be interested to see how much orijen gains in weight in hot water after 2 and 10 mins - i didn't actually measure size only weight. both kibbles stayed together pretty well, neither were mush...


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

I just soaked the cereal free vitalin one - it didn't swell at all! :smile5:

ETA: - lady_r0gue - which one did you soak?


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## Rooster2 (Feb 10, 2010)

james1 said:


> Where do you buy this from? I can only find one place that sells it, after their ingredients there is a reference to Bakers complete food - do you know anymore about this?


Hi James1 I get it from a company called "The Nook" 
Garden Pro - Garden Furniture
They seem to do a small range of premium food and I get their super premium "Lamb Casserole" which seems to suit my dogs great. I have just looked again and it seems they now do a waistline food too. If you would like me to post the ingredients i can go take a look for you.


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> I just soaked the cereal free vitalin one - it didn't swell at all! :smile5:
> 
> ETA: - lady_r0gue - which one did you soak?


vitalin sensitive lamb and burns fish n rice. well the swelling wasn't that noticeable to be fair it wasn't like when you soak mixer (which I don't really use) - i thought the comparative weight gain might be more the key... maybe I should have measured them lol


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Ah they both have rice. I'm sold on the cereal free one.


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

damn I/ didn't see that one! maybe that'll be the next one we try then. I/ chose this one as I wanted to /see what happened if I/ stopped feeding him chicken/ - but that does seem really good...
please/ excuse my dodgy keyboard, it's playing/ up again!!!/ aaaaggh!


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

lady rogue lol the cereal free one was what attracted me to it in the first place lol surprised you didnt see it  (just remember you did say you wanted to avoid chicken - maybe i didnt point it out because of this)


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Rooster2 said:


> Hi James1 I get it from a company called "The Nook"
> Garden Pro - Garden Furniture
> They seem to do a small range of premium food and I get their super premium "Lamb Casserole" which seems to suit my dogs great. I have just looked again and it seems they now do a waistline food too. If you would like me to post the ingredients i can go take a look for you.


no its ok thanks ive seen them already, it doesnt look bad for one of the cheaper options


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

The Vitalin sample arrived this morning and Heidi likes it. The kibbles are quite hard and she struggles with them a bit but she is a small terrier. She manages the Skinners Salmon and Rice a lot better and seems to prefer the taste too. So I have decided to go with her and get a small bag of the Skinners to try.

The Vitalin is slightly more expensive than the Skinners and I would need to feed 20g per day more but that said, I do feel that on paper Vitalin is the better food and I will need to supplement a little extra meat to the skinners.

I am glad I found this topic. I was quite happy with the Pets at Home brand and Heidi does well on it but now she can have something she likes and that I can be happy to feed from the knowledge I have gained here. Since I have had her I have been chasing my tail trying to get the best for her and now I feel I have succeeded.


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## alysonandhedley (Oct 29, 2009)

Has anyone noticed a behavioural difference in their dogs when on certain foods?

I know Burns is advertised as being calming ... is this true? Are any others?


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

The big thing I notice is how much poo they produce! On raw, its very little. On Burns its little too. On Arden Grange there was more, and on cheap foods I'm forever shovelling lol. Vitalin *cereal free* produces less. So I'm happy.


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## alysonandhedley (Oct 29, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> The big thing I notice is how much poo they produce! On raw, its very little. On Burns its little too. On Arden Grange there was more, and on cheap foods I'm forever shovelling lol. Vitalin *cereal free* produces less. So I'm happy.


Thats important, I agree. It has to be firm stuff too!


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

alysonandhedley said:


> It has to be firm stuff too!


Yup. Type one. Green Dog Food - 100% Complete Holistic Dog Food Providing Natural Control of Worms, Fleas and Ticks


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

Well he isn't hyper but he's alert and fully capable of chasing balls at full pelt for 30 mins- and yes the poos are much smaller (and firm) with Burns - and seems the same so far with Vitalin x type one all the way


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

My breeding bitch was on Vilatin bitch diet, but she did poo more. She's gone off it too, so is back on a raw diet.


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

Yh I guess I'm hardly a good example of a fair test as dry kibble only makes up about 40 % of his diet, whichever brand I get x


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

I have followed this thread with great interest.
I have my older girls on skinners salmon and rice or duck and been very pleased with it.
And have the pup on wainwrights salmon and potato and have been very pleased with that also,as im not keen on skinners puppy complete.
After watching this,i may try the vitalin cereal free instead of the skinners for them all.....it does look quite good to be fair.
I am a fan of skinners as used it for a few years with good results,so the vitalin has a lot of convincing to do to me.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Ive only fed their Mini bites (from Burns) and it calmed a monster down within a day. The guy was biting my older, running laps of the lounge in seconds, biting me, etc etc. The mini bites was a 1000% increase in his temprement  On the whole I like burns - the only quibble i have with it are their rice levels - they seem very high. 
Just to mention, If you are breeding and contact Burns about this - they will send you loaaads for food + vouchers for the new owners to use. Each time the owner uses the voucher they send you what they bought for free (so ive heard). Quiet a good deal if its true


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

James have you an idea of what you think of the wainwrights complete food in general please.
As i have said i have used this for pups before and will continue for a while longer and its always been very good,no upsets.
Sorry to spring this on you so late in the day


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

dont worry ive looked at pretty much every food ever mentioned I think lol, I didnt mind the look of wainrights first off really , I think its less than 40 pounds which isnt so bad either. If its working for your dog dont go changing just be aware of what your buying if you ever do


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

Thankyou james i appreciate your opinions on food.


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## Rooster2 (Feb 10, 2010)

luvmydogs said:


> The big thing I notice is how much poo they produce! On raw, its very little. On Burns its little too. On Arden Grange there was more, and on cheap foods I'm forever shovelling lol. Vitalin *cereal free* produces less. So I'm happy.


Cereal free is the way to go! I have learnt that the 'cereal' comes from a waste human food source. Has anyone else heard this?


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

it depends on the manufacturer I think, sometimes it can be the full corn being used, other times the husks other times the grem. Different company's need different things - say the flour industry would need the wheat husk but not necessarily the wheat grem so this is sold off as a by-product... (im not familiar with what industries use what for what reasons but id think this would be the case)


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

What about this? It has no cereal........... Fish Working Dog Complete - Fish4Dogs Online Shop


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Looks champion to me


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Its only 28 quid for 15kg if you join the breeder club! :001_tt1:


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

lol i think im going to turn breeder lol bookmarked it anyway thanks


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

james1 said:


> lol i think im going to turn breeder lol bookmarked it anyway thanks


lol, me too, breeders seem to get great deals on foods. £27 a bag makes fish4dogs excellent value. Shame there's such a big difference in normal customer prices and breeder prices.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Just found out that vitalin cereal free is 42.50 for *25*kg if you're a breeder!!! hmy:


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I would have imagined a bigger saving than that. There is quite a big difference per kilo between their 2.5k and 15k bags.


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## nic101 (Jun 8, 2009)

not read all 18 pages lol

but we feed beta light (shes prone to weight gain the little fatty lol!) and its £23? for 15kg... and that will last about 5/6 weeks now theres only 1 dog .

imo thats reasonable and really good for the dogs


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

nic101 said:


> not read all 18 pages lol
> 
> but we feed beta light (shes prone to weight gain the little fatty lol!) and its £23? for 15kg... and that will last about 5/6 weeks now theres only 1 dog .
> 
> imo thats reasonable and really good for the dogs


imo thats really expensive for what it is, Arden grange is the same price and a much, much better food.

Especially once you read the Ingredients:
Cereals, Meat and Animal Derivatives, Derivatives of vegetable origin (min 0.5% beet pulp), Oils and fats, Minerals, Vegetables (min 0.5% chicory)

No definitions, you could be feeding your dog anything.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Yes Beta isnt that good at all if you look at the ingredients, dogs are prone to energy bursts on it too. Theres other foods like those mentioned above and on this page that are better for the price


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I would have imagined a bigger saving than that. There is quite a big difference per kilo between their 2.5k and 15k bags.


It works out cheaper than the Fish4Dogs even at the breeder price. What do people think? Is cereal free Fish4Dogs far superior to cereal free Vitalin?


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## alysonandhedley (Oct 29, 2009)

All the fish4dogs products are excellent, and the complete food must be particularly palatable as Hedley eats it reliably unlike many other good makes. We havent used vitalin so I cant compare it.


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

luvmydogs said:


> It works out cheaper than the Fish4Dogs even at the breeder price. What do people think? Is cereal free Fish4Dogs far superior to cereal free Vitalin?


id say so but only because it has better protein levels, Vitalin only has one coming from chicken, but its not bad especially for a good 15 pounds less than Fish4, they have a delivery charge which Vitalin dont with most of their suppliers. .


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

Let's make a point scoring system like the ethiscore system Buyer's guide to pet food but for quality of dog foods! Reckon it'd be a relatively simple system to create based on the most important criteria and then ppl could work it out for their own dog foods using the multiple choice quiz method... there must be somebody online clever enough to make a little quiz app :thumbsup:


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

lol and someone with a large amount fo free time lol


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

Mate count up all the time some of us have spent on pet forums discussing pet foods... I reckon it'd save us a few months of our lives :lol:


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## findley (Jan 8, 2010)

Good old Chappie 15kg for £14.00. Really good food.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Why is it really good?


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## riffraffdeefer (Jul 11, 2008)

Arden grange lamb
£23.82 15kg vetuk


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

findley said:


> Good old Chappie 15kg for £14.00. Really good food.


I know chappie wet is often recommended for sensitive stomachs but looking at the ingredients for the dry, they don't look like really good food to me, quite the opposite in fact.

Cereals (minimum 4% wholegrain); Derivitives of vegetable origin; meat and animal derivitives (minimum 4% chicken); oils and fats; minerals. With antioxidants butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT) and butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA). With preservative potassium sorbate.

Protein 20%; oils 7%; ash 6.5%; fibre 4.0%; Vitamin A 4000 Iu/kg; Vitamin D 400 Iu/kg; Vitamin E 40 mg/kg; Copper 10mg/kg as copper sulphate.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Only 4% chicken?!


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

luvmydogs said:


> Only 4% chicken?!


Yeah. Chappie is very low quality but great for sensitive tums.


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## findley (Jan 8, 2010)

It is easy to digest, low in fat and the protein level is 20%. We always reccomended Chappie especially for GSDs as some of them can bordering on pancreatic. It is like any food it will not suit all, but it is a good budget food.


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## alysonandhedley (Oct 29, 2009)

Lyceum said:


> I know chappie wet is often recommended for sensitive stomachs but looking at the ingredients for the dry, they don't look like really good food to me, quite the opposite in fact.
> 
> Cereals (minimum 4% wholegrain); Derivitives of vegetable origin; meat and animal derivitives (minimum 4% chicken); oils and fats; minerals. With antioxidants butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT) and butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA). With preservative potassium sorbate.
> 
> Protein 20%; oils 7%; ash 6.5%; fibre 4.0%; Vitamin A 4000 Iu/kg; Vitamin D 400 Iu/kg; Vitamin E 40 mg/kg; Copper 10mg/kg as copper sulphate.


The dry is completely different stuff to the wet, was told this on their help line. The wet is fish based but the dry is beef I think he said. (Even though they do both have chicken in). I havent tried the dry but the Chappie original tinned was a lifesaver when everything was going through Hedley. Now I just keep it for emergencies as he is happily established on Fish4dogs.

I got him some Burns as I thought it would calm him down, and in v small quantities he was OK with it, but when I tried increasing the Burns he got sloppy poos again. So I guess we will stick to the Fish4dogs. Oh well!


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Chappie and Butchers are the only wet Bears tummy will tollerate even natures diet comes straight out the other end 

its not fab wet food but if it stops a runny bum, and mucus poo's e.t.c then its a good one imo


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## sequeena (Apr 30, 2009)

findley said:


> It is easy to digest, low in fat and the protein level is 20%. We always reccomended Chappie especially for GSDs as some of them can bordering on pancreatic. It is like any food it will not suit all, but it is a good budget food.


My GSD is okay on the tins but they always make her poop very runny. Deff not something I would put her on fulltime sadly.


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## Road_Hog (Dec 8, 2008)

Okay let me sum this up, Chappie is like chicken soup for humans, great when you're feeling ill but not a food that you'd spend your life time being fed on?


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## juliemom (Feb 11, 2010)

i have had the pup on iams and the big dog on asda complete with wet food, i have brought the cjs the pup champ and the older dog food and am gradulaly changing them over but they absolutely love it and it is so reasonable i would highly recommend the cjs

julie


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## james1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Road_Hog said:


> Okay let me sum this up, Chappie is like chicken soup for humans, great when you're feeling ill but not a food that you'd spend your life time being fed on?


that is the best thing ive heard said on here


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

~Yh lol I've repped Road Hog for that!


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