# Other dogs HATE Dino.



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Dino barely ever gets to play with new dogs. They all hate him. They go for him. 

I'm really sick of it and I'm starting to see changes in Dino's behaviour now. He has started retaliating and if the dog comes back he puts his hackles up and growls. He used to be impervious.

Dino is just over a year old and entire. I can't see anything he's doing to threaten a dog. He only wants to play. He will sniff the other dog and let the dog sniff him, and then he will playbow and run away to get the dog to chase him. Only he hardly ever gets the chance to play bow now because the other dog has stiffened and gone for him in the space of a second.
These are offlead dogs that have been fine with other dogs, owners have given permission to interact and everyone is happy.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

I think "one year old entire male" is probably the source of your problem.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

I've been thinking about getting him the implant to see how other dogs are with him being "neutered". But to be perfectly fecking honest, why should I neuter my dog just because other people can't socialise theirs?


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Its not a case of other people not socialising theirs (you said your self these dogs are perfectly happy to interact with other dogs) and I did not suggest you should have him neutered, you just need to be aware that dogs DO react differently to young entire males.


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## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

Shrap said:


> Dino barely ever gets to play with new dogs. They all hate him. They go for him.
> 
> I'm really sick of it and I'm starting to see changes in Dino's behaviour now. He has started retaliating and if the dog comes back he puts his hackles up and growls. He used to be impervious.
> 
> ...


Aww, poor Dino . Do you mean male/"dog" dogs or all dogs? Dino always seems to have good doggy manners when I see him play so I can't imagine it is anything he is doing wrong. Maybe it is just his size and confidence intimidates other dogs... nothing you or Dino are doing wrong but must be a right pest . I suppose he could also be having a testosterone surge as he matures but still wants to play like a pup which might confuse or set off other males. Hopefully it will settle down and in the meantime make sure he gets lots of good experiences with dogs he knows or that you know are up for play. He gets on great with Mr Tumface and seemed good with the other male GSDs at his bday? Just try and keep up lots of doggy "man dates"!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Shrap said:


> Dino barely ever gets to play with new dogs. They all hate him. They go for him.
> 
> I'm really sick of it and I'm starting to see changes in Dino's behaviour now. He has started retaliating and if the dog comes back he puts his hackles up and growls. He used to be impervious.
> 
> ...


Poor Dino. I really feel for him as I had the same thing with Ferdie when he started to get big; his size scared the life out of the other dogs and all he wanted to do was play. That is why I got him a friend who would be his own size. I think Dino needs another GSD to play with.



Shrap said:


> I've been thinking about getting him the implant to see how other dogs are with him being "neutered". But to be perfectly fecking honest, why should I neuter my dog just because other people can't socialise theirs?


I think that would be a good idea to be honest. It is not the owners, is it, or they wouldn't play with other dogs, it is Dino giving off some sort of bad vibes that you do not sense, because you are not a dog.

What a shame you are in Scotland, as my two have never met a dog they don't want to play with.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Both sexes although we don't encounter many bitches. The males that go for him are a mixture of neutered and intact.
He had a surge a couple of months ago but he's maturing really nicely atm, really settling.

I didn't invite any dogs he didn't know to his bday to avoid problems.

It's a shame because he prefers playing with male dogs, they're generally more up for rough and tumble.

Maybe this will be the deciding factor in when I get another pup....


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Shrap said:


> Both sexes although we don't encounter many bitches. The males that go for him are a mixture of neutered and intact.
> He had a surge a couple of months ago but he's maturing really nicely atm, really settling.
> 
> I didn't invite any dogs he didn't know to his bday to avoid problems.
> ...


Has to be done. It made no end of difference to Ferdie when we got Joshua, it really did. I had already had him neutered by then because he was uncontrollably randy, but I doubt it would have mattered.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

He does have friends to play with, just we can't always meet up with them. We have a friend with 5 GSDs and a cavalier that Dino loves. I can just boot him out into their back garden and sit and chat for a couple of hours :lol:

He has a husky bitch he plays with that we've walked with since he was little but we can't always arrange to meet up.

Dogs he used to play with when he was younger now don't like him anymore because he's bigger than them...


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## totallypets (Dec 30, 2011)

There are many dogs and bitches that have problems with young entire males - normally the bitches will get past this as he gets older, but in my experience lots of entire males have problems with other dogs targeting them because of the way they smell rather than their behaviour. 

Unfortunately this can result in them also becoming wary of new dogs/males and reacting aggressively or even attacking first - I don't mean biting necessarily but noise and aggression so scare off the other dog. The result may be a fight depending on the other dog. 

I come across this all the time from both sides. I walk a few neutered males who have 'a problem' with un-neutered males even though they have been well socialised and I walk an entire dog who is now often aggresive, but only to males. I also know of a few entire males who are often targeted but don't retaliate. 

If you don't want to get him neutered when he's old enough maybe for now avoid situations where he might be targeted so that his new reactive behaviour doesn't become ingrained. Hopefully as he becomes an adult the other dogs will stop reacting to him.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

We get the same and, like Dino, Kilo sometimes responds now. I am also toying with the idea of superlorin but don't want to mess with his hormones. Some of the dogs run over to us whilst he is on lead (like this morning yet again) to growl and bark at him and he was bitten by a bichon unfortunately.

I am being exceptionally careful of what dogs he mixes with and if I am unsure have started asking him to lie down / sit as another male comes over. It seems to be other adolescent males that object to him most strongly.


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

We went through a phase - about a month if I remember correctly - when Angus was about 18 months and was attacked nearly every day by other males. I discussed it with my vet (was thinking about trying the implant) and he suggested using the Tardak injection first as it was shorter lasting. The main impact it had was that bitches went for him instead. However by the time it wore off things seemed to have calmed down and other dogs have been fine with him again.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Chester has had the implant in for 5 weeks now...but his behavior has become worse after he was attacked by another dog a couple of week back...he is so unsettled around dogs now and much more reactive than he was pre-implant, we are hoping that its because of his now lack of testosterone..only time will tell though..


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

paddyjulie said:


> Chester has had the implant in for 5 weeks now...but his behavior has become worse after he was attacked by another dog a couple of week back...he is so unsettled around dogs now and much more reactive than he was pre-implant, we are hoping that its because of his now lack of testosterone..only time will tell though..


I don't 'like' the fact that you are having problems....liked it for you sharing the info .


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

That is strange because as you know my two males are fine with Dino.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Shrap said:


> I've been thinking about getting him the implant to see how other dogs are with him being "neutered". But to be perfectly fecking honest, why should I neuter my dog just because other people can't socialise theirs?


Thats exactly how I felt when people suggested that it was Louie's fault for him being attacked because he's entire. He has been socialised well and never stepped a foot wrong, it's always been the other thats attacked him. I know there is some truth to the entire argument but from the body language of the dogs who have attacked him - it's not been a smell problem.

And sadly, Louie is now reacting to other dogs coming into his space.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Dogless said:


> I don't 'like' the fact that you are having problems....liked it for you sharing the info .


I know x the bitch obsession and scenting has stopped though....


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## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

What a shame, Dino shall have to come and live with us 

I think it must just be hormones, Tummel went through a phase where other dogs weren't happy around him even though he wasn't doing anything to them.

But then it's also odd as Tummel isn't overly keen on teenage boys but he was perfectly happy to have Dino around playing with his toys and eating his treats...possibly he just knows Dino too well?

Anyway, hope this stops happening soon xx


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Set_Nights said:


> ...I suppose he could also be having a testosterone surge as he matures but still wants to play like a pup
> which might confuse or set off other males.


the "testosterone surge" begins at 6-MO, & rapidly spikes at approx 9-MO to *5 to 7 times the levels 
of testosterone in adult-males who are 12-MO to 15-MO, & over.*

so at "just past 12-MO / 1-YO", Dino's testosterone-levels have actually fallen - unfortunately, it sounds as tho 
he has some *learned behaviors* that cause other dogs to react to him, & going thru that post-puberty 
testosterone-spike is often the root-cause of those learned behaviors: he may feel very defensive.


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## Catz1 (Sep 19, 2011)

I have the same problem with Rio, dogs just don't want anything to do with her. We've been lunged at loads of times while walking on leash even when shes not paying them any attention 

I get told by other dog walkers that their dog hates GSD's all the time. I'm kind of sick of it to be honest as its gotten to the point now where Rio will look up at me and whine loudly until we are past other dogs. She has never reacted aggressively to their lunging but it clearly stresses her out.. 

I'm just glad she has my OH's dads dog Ollie to play with


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Dougie is nearly 2 and still "intact", he was jumped once by a lurcher & greyhound when he was about 10 months old, he was out with dad at the time. Sure if with me I would have over reacted big time but dad is an old farmer and takes such stuff in his stride so didn't affect Dougie one bit.

I've been out with them both and rushed over to clip dougie back on lead when some strange dog approached, dad says leave him be its fine and it was. So I have learned to relax, my dad isn't some weirdo who things you should leave dogs to sort it out themselves - he carries a stick and has seen off a couple of dogs who he knew were aggressive.

Not saying you are wrong but it would just be a bit unusual if every dog you come across hates dino, yes one or two may but surely not all:001_unsure:


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## r00fus (Aug 11, 2011)

I have a problem that Guinness doesn't like German Shepherd or any big dogs. When they stand over him and crowd him he can get quite defensive and I think he feels intimidated. If we walk past a big dog on a lead while he is on lead he will growl but off-lead he is fine if they ignore him or play nice, but not when they crowd over him.

A friend of mine has a male German Shepherd and when we were walking he kept trying to hump Guinness and Guinness kept telling him off as he is an intact male. The GSD just ran off everytime but then kept trying again.

It's such a shame that big dogs can have difficultly socialising just because of their size. I think also some owners will tense up & get nervous at a big dog running towards theirs so that will put the dog on the defence also.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2012)

Shrap said:


> I've been thinking about getting him the implant to see how other dogs are with him being "neutered". But to be perfectly fecking honest, why should I neuter my dog just because other people can't socialise theirs?


It might not have anything to do with the other dogs not being socialized.
Yes, the testosterone surge will have a lot to do with it, but also, some dogs (often larger, athletic males) tend to have imposing body language and other dogs dont react well to it. 
One of our dogs is like this. Hes a big boy (80 pounds) and just very boisterous and rough. Dogs start out wanting to play with him, and in about 3 seconds they get turned off because hes just too over the top for them.



Shrap said:


> It's a shame because he prefers playing with male dogs, they're generally more up for rough and tumble.


This makes me think its a young, rough, OTT male thing as well as a testosterone thing.



912142 said:


> That is strange because as you know my two males are fine with Dino.


And again, these are danes no? My obnoxious player plays beautifully with my younger dane. Shes twice his weight, and they slam in to each other and have a grand old time. Unfortunately the dogs who are in to this kind of play are few and far between. Set up lots of play dates with danes and mastiffs LOL!


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

He doesn't run in all guns blazing unless it's a dog he knows VERY well.

He runs over but slows down on approach, goes round their side and lets the dog sniff him while he sniffs it. Head low, excited ears back, tail wagging. No posturing. The other dogs are generally fine until they sniff him. He doesn't rough over other dogs unless they're up for it. To initiate play he play bows and runs away.

I have stopped him socialising with strange dogs for the mo.


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Poor Dino, I'm sure Lucky would love him. I do anyway


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

My staffy x who has excellent social skills is reactive to entire males. Nothing I can do to train him it's a scent/testerone problem. 

Quite common with entire males.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Sounds very similar to the problems 5rivers has had with his young entire Akita Samson. He seems to get attacked on a regular basis too and for no apparent reason.  I have always thought that as well as hormones Samson has the stance of an aggressive dog - ears and tail up like my Mals. I have read of many attacks on good tempered Mals on a Mal forum and owners/ trainers believe it's due to their look. Could be something similar, as well as the hormones with Dino perhaps.

Poor boy.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Just thought I should update this thread for anyone going through the same thing. Everything has gone back to normal. Definitely a weird one!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Shrap said:


> Just thought I should update this thread for anyone going through the same thing. Everything has gone back to normal. Definitely a weird one!


I'm getting this currently with Brody, mostly other un-neuetred males though set out to kill him  hopefully as he matures, he'll stop being picked on  thankfully nothing serious just growling and snapping right now.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

How old is brody? It affected dino from around 11/12 months - 14/15 months. I couldn't tell you exactly when but we've been easing back into normal routine and completely back to normal at 16 months. 
There is nothing different about his body language or intensity/excitement either. It had to be hormonal...


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Shrap said:


> Just thought I should update this thread for anyone going through the same thing. Everything has gone back to normal. Definitely a weird one!


I was just wondering about Dino the other day as things are (touch wood!) much better for us now too. Has to be hormonal, I agree!


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Glad things seem to be OK now. I know my trainers GSD is going through the same thing. He's about 14 months old.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

SLB said:


> ...my trainer's GSD is going through the same thing. He's about 14 months old.


in that case, HIS hormones - the trainer's GSD, that is - are not the trigger. 
it could be a *learned behavior* by this point - but his testosterone levels have fallen 
from the 9 to 10-MO spike, when they are *5 to 7 times the amount secreted 
by intact males who are 12 to 15-MO*; he is, as U note, past 12-MO himself.

he no longer reeks of male-hormones in that obnoxious super-male fashion of the teenaged period - 
so there must be another explanation.

I tell ppl point-blank that if ehy don't intend to breed, my suggestion is to desex any male-pup sometime 
between 6-MO & 8-MO, & if they have problems with real aggro toward other dogs or humans, i'd desex 
prior to 7-MO if he were my dog, to avoid the sudden surge of testosterone as the dog ages toward 9-MO. 
It's just not worth the hassle, IMO.

the average pet-owner is not good at proactive management - which is why they are so prone to such 
classic errors as poisoning the *come* cue, teaching their pup to PULL [Flexi from 8-WO, anyone?...], 
& so forth.  Successfully negotiating the rapids & white-water of male adolescence is much harder.
Their sweet puppy goes thru such a sudden change that they aren't coping, so much as playing catch-up.


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## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

That's interesting. The first thing the behaviourist (who came to help with Rex) asked was 

"When was he de-sexed?" 

I responded that he was de-sexed when I got him, six weeks or so ago. He was very clear that the dog should have been de-sexed at 6 months or there-abouts. As I remember it, he said 

"Pity he wasn't done at 6 months. It would probably have prevented all this."

I know a lot of people reccommend de-sexing much later to reduce the chances of fear aggression and I can see the advantage.

I honestly wish Rex HAD been de-sexed at 6 months. There would have been one fewer litter of dodgy dogs and I believe he would have been less aggressive to other male dogs.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Don't forget to let us know how you get on at the Sieger this weekend then.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

How did you get on at the Sieger Shrap?


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Terrible lmao. Dino decided the sieger would be the best time to amble the whole way round the ring! Embarrassed doesn't quite cover it hahaha. The judge really like him though, gave him a good critique just said about his training etc. There is nowhere to train over here... But I'm still pleased with how he did. Other than the ambling he didn't stop/turn back to look for me and stood himself really well. Didn't bat an eyelid when the random man checked his teeth and testicles when he was registering. 
I'm reckoning he was off colour though, I got his bite bar thingy out before to rile him up and he bit it once and then DROPPED it and ignored it.... That is not Dino. It may explain the ambling.
He does have 2 SG grading cards now though  and we both really enjoyed ourselves. Conbhairean Freddie took first in his puppy male class, conbhairean fanta 2nd in hers. Conbhairean Chico took 2nd in yearling male and conbhairean waro 1st in adult male  oh and conbhairean Gabriella won minor puppy female I think too.

Dino has 1 more show next weekend although the entries are pitiful because there's a champ show on at the same time. Hopefully there will be a few LC entries. Going to get some tape to put down on the bowling green that no-one uses and get him gaiting properly round it. We have always had a problem with ambling though...

But all in all. I had a bloody brilliant weekend, Dino got 2 pork pies and a third of a mars bar for being such a good boy - so I think he enjoyed it too lol!!

Thank you for asking


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Shrap said:


> We have always had a problem with ambling though...
> 
> But all in all. I had a bloody brilliant weekend, Dino got 2 pork pies and a third of a mars bar for being such a good boy - so I think he enjoyed it too lol!!
> 
> Thank you for asking


A good trick for dogs that pace is to turn them in a circle before setting off, this puts them slightly off balance.

If you watch shows, you can tell the dogs which pace by what the handlers do at the beginning. 

Pacing can also be laziness or fatigue, or that you are not moving fast enough.

PS I would avoid giving your dog Mars Bars however..................


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

smokeybear said:


> A good trick for dogs that pace is to turn them in a circle before setting off, this puts them slightly off balance.
> 
> If you watch shows, you can tell the dogs which pace by what the handlers do at the beginning.
> 
> ...


I'll try that, it was the same handler that took him at his last show but he didn't think he would pace as he didn't last time! 
I think it's just habit now.
He only got the bit of mars bar as a very special treat, it's definitely not a regular occurence lmao. I think feeding raw would be a waste of time if he got regular high crap% treats 

I have to say, the bitework was SO bad. What is with these dogs slowing down before biting?? No wonder a lot of working line folk see showlines as useless.


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## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

Lexiedhb said:


> I think "one year old entire male" is probably the source of your problem.


It could also be the vibes you subconsciously give off.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

The fact that dogs slow down before the bite is not necessarily down to poor or weak nerve in the dog.

Many dogs are injured due to poor helpers ie they jar their necks and spine and so are reluctant to bite.

Only been to the Sieger once to get my dog graded and it was the year before the bitework came in.

Never bothered afterwards I am afraid I do not like all the screaming, shouting and running about.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

I didn't mean that it was down to poor nerve, just no OOMPH if you know what I mean. I love the running about and shouting lol.

What you say about having their necks jarred is a good point though, too many show breeders have their own sleeves for practicing the courage tests.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

smokeybear said:


> A good trick for dogs that *pace* is to [circle them on-leash] before setting off [in a straight line],
> this puts them slightly off balance.
> 
> If you watch shows, you can tell the dogs which pace by what the handlers do [before starting off].
> ...


definitely agree with all points - circling with the dog helps move them into a 4-beat walk or 2-beat trot, 
as they set off in a straight line.  it's helpful with young horses who forge, too, or any horse who's worried 
about something in the environs: circling keeps them moving, occupied with something other than their fears, 
& a nice brisk trot in hand whilst circling can help them stand calmly for a moment for an exam, stirrup 
adjustment, or other fiddly bits.

re PACE as a gait - 
it can also [& often] indicates some discomfort in the rear - hip, knee, soft-tissues, etc; 
it can be an early symptom of *structural problems*. A strained ligament or sprain, pulled muscle, 
a slipping patella or dysplastic hip, over-pronated hock, etc, can all manifest as a dog who PACES persistently, 
as opposed to using 'pace' to transition between gaits for a few strides when changing speed - i-e, the dog is 
slowing from a 3-beat canter to a 2-beat trot, & paces one or 2 strides between canter & trot, or when 
accelerating from a slow 4-beat walk to a brisk high-tailed prancing trot, they pace a stride or two.

i see many young dogs who are not even 12-MO who pace for many minutes at a time, while they are 
on-leash with their owner, who only sees the dog's head & shoulders beside them & are often unaware 
what the dog's rear-end is doing; they assume the dog's walking, when s/he is actually pacing. They'll walk 
for blocks on end, with their dog pacing beside them, & i've gotten in the habit of mentioning it when 
i see it, as an early-Dx means many more options to possibly treat a joint problem, & a better prognosis. 
IF IT'S JUST A SORE MUSCLE, that's fine! - no harm, no foul, but at least the owner is more aware, 
& if they see their no-longer-young dog starting to pace more & more often, they may check with their vet...
 Forewarned is forearmed.

When a dog with a painful rear assembly paces, s/he is moving WEIGHT off the rear & onto their shoulders 
& elbows, which may not be such a good idea long-term, as they already carry an average of 65% or more 
of the dog's total-wt, & overloading the front-assembly only leads to elbow / wrist & shoulder problems.

My suggestion? 
if he hasn't had hip / knee radiographs [with IME the preference being Penn-HIP veterinarians, who both 
x-ray & read the rads on site], if he were mine, i'd do that; **but** if he's not insured yet, i'd insure him 
first. As i'm not a vet, haven't seen the dog, & don't have x-ray vision anyhow,  i can't possibly say 
if there's a problem, but a Dx before insuring him means the repair, if any, won't be covered... 
so get the insurance 1st, read the policy to be sure they don't wiggle out of supposedly "breed-specific 
proclivities" to dysplasia or luxation, & THEN - get the rads done & read! :thumbsup:

that way, U won't be denied coverage for any therapy or surgery; that could be hydro, crate-rest for a 
soft-tissue injury followed by a slow increase of exercise to build muscle back up, a ligament needs 
stitching after a partial tear, or a full-on joint surgery - or maybe he just got bumped by another dog 
while playing, & it was a one or 2-day ouchy that's faded & gone! :yesnod: But just in case, it might be good 
to check for long-term potential issues.


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## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

He has no pain anywhere and his hips are good. BVA score of 8 and that was with a crap x ray done by incompetent vet nurse.

He only really gets walked on lead to the park/golf course etc and he gaits on the way there. Once off lead he splits between pacing/gaiting. He's been increasing the gaiting and decreasing pacing recently, naturally lowering the speed that he goes into a gait at.

His sire was a pacer until he hit about 2 years old :s


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