# Working Labrador Training?



## slakey (May 9, 2009)

Hi all, as some of you know I have a Labrador puppy, now 4 months old.
He's come from a working line.

In his bloodline he has got alot of Field Trial Champions. So I was just wondering, what do I need to look at, and what do I need to start training him to do.

I've left it this late, so he could have plenty of time to adjust to the new home, and have plenty of play time... So yeah... I need info really.

How hard is it? My parents have shown Boxers in the past, but they have no knowledge on the Field Trial side of things.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2009)

Just mainly basic obedience at this stage.
I found this book excellent
Gun Dogs: Their Learning Chain: Amazon.co.uk: Joe Irving: Books


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## lifeizsweet (Jun 7, 2009)

We've been doing alot of obedience training with Bramble trying to get his recall 100% and also because he will be going on shoots in the future have been getting him used to gun sounds.


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

Just had his first go at learning the command stay/wait *I think wait works best* and he done rather well on his last go, the cat wanted to go out of the room, he just sat and watched her, then I called him to get his attention told him to wait and got roughly 6ft gap between me and him and then told him to come, he did and I gave him his biscuit and alot of high-pitched praise 

One thing I do struggle with is calling him in from the garden, sometimes he'll come first time, other times he either doesn't come, or he does come... then stops at the door and just sits looking into the kitchen...

When he does come straight in I give him lots of praise and a biscuit, but I'd like it to happen all the time really...

Any ideas on how to improve this?


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

You could enroll him in an obedience club to get the basics, they start at 6mths old I think.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2009)

Have a look here
Field Trial Societies contact details and website links - The Kennel Club


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Buy yourself a copy of 'A Simple Approach to Gundog Training' by John Weller, a really good easy to follow book about gundog training.

Recall is the main thing to focus on when they're young pups, you need to set aside time to train for a few minutes each day, getting the pups attention. I'd be introducing whistle commands really early on, so you have both verbal and whistle commands for the basics at least.

If you think he won't recall, then don't call him. If he's busy sniffing then recalling him will teach him that he can make his way back to you once he's finished what he's doing. 

I don't use a separate command for stay or wait, some do, some don't. Mine sit and are expected to sit until I tell them otherwise, although Indie's steadiness is non-existant, whilst I can leave Tau in a sit, go and set up a training exercise and walk back over to her. She will still wait until I then give her a command, and she will recall or heel rather than run out to the items I've set up for her to retrieve.

And at this point, I'll just add I count myself as a beginner at gundog training stuff, and the temptation is to dive in to the exciting retrieve stuff. Whereas really the better your obedience is the further you will be able to take your training in the long run.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

At four months old he's too young to start gundog training, but you can work on the basics - sit, stay, walking to heel and recall. Make it fun for them. Don't do any retrieving with them while their teeth are coming through.

These people are good and do a very good manual.

The Gundog Club - A UK National Gundog Organisation

You could also contact your local gundog club, although most have finished training for this year. Training tends to start up in the spring, so if you have the basics installed by then you will be well on your way.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Buy yourself a copy of 'A Simple Approach to Gundog Training' by John Weller, a really good easy to follow book about gundog training.
> 
> Recall is the main thing to focus on when they're young pups, you need to set aside time to train for a few minutes each day, getting the pups attention. I'd be introducing whistle commands really early on, so you have both verbal and whistle commands for the basics at least.
> 
> ...


I've never understood why so many people concentrate on the retrieving side of training, when any good dog will do this naturally, whereas recall is the hardest to install and should be top of priorities


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Funnily enough, Tau wasn't a natural retriever as a pup, she had no desire at all to bring things to you, and yet now she loves it. She's got good natural marking ability as well, which is a bonus, and is stubborn at hunting an area.

Another good reason for not focusing on retrieving with pups is of course as they go through teething they could be put off holding things in their mouth.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Funnily enough, Tau wasn't a natural retriever as a pup, she had no desire at all to bring things to you, and yet now she loves it. She's got good natural marking ability as well, which is a bonus, and is stubborn at hunting an area.
> 
> Another good reason for not focusing on retrieving with pups is of course as they go through teething they could be put off holding things in their mouth.


With Alf being second hand and show breeding, he was hard mouthed, we had him picking rabbits till he was sick of it


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

I have found this obedience training class.

For a 6week puppy course it costs £59, and they only allow upto a maximum of 6puppies per class.

They also do a 6week adult course for £65, also only allowing 6dogs maximum per class.

Since Zeus isn't too great on his commands I'm tempted to put them both down.

The only problem is, I'm scared of introducing Zeus to other dogs 

I've been told by my dad, sister, and mother that he just wants to go and play with them, but I fear of the other dog, and partially of Zeus.
I took him round my mums mates, and she owns a 13 year old terrier and a 6year old GSD cross that they rescued, Zeus was really good with the GSD *terrier was put out of the way because she's aggressive* but if the GSD snapped at Zeus he turned onto his back.

But I still have a horrible thought in the back of my head that it could all go wrong...

But that aside, they do offer individual classes for dogs, which I can consider for Zeus, it's also an option for the puppies, but no chance of the happening with Milo, I want him to meet new dogs as much as I can *never took Zeus to puppy classes and he didn't socialize much, hense the worry nowdays*


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

You need to get Zeus socialised, Labradors should have fabulous temperaments and be able to cope with all sorts of situations, that's one of the reasons why they make very good assistance dogs.

Both of mine can be, and have been, chucked (not literally) in the back of strange vehicles with strange dogs and strange people. Socialising is so important to be able to do this without any worries.


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## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

I use these;

The 10 Minute Retriever

The Working Labrador

Working Gundogs

The latter 2 are a little old-school but have lots of useful background info. Don't let the dog play with;
Sticks
Other dogs
Chase birds or rabbits or deer

Get it used to guns from an early age as possible and be prepared to spend a lot of time training it and your family. Ideally the dog is not a pet, so it should live outside, this seperates it from you and the family and makes it more attentive when you are training and helps protect the dogs nose - central heating with render a dogs nose useless if you want to work him.


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

Zeus is my 3year old Boxer cross, not my Labrador puppy, just to clear things up.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Sorry Slakey, I'm a bit behind, doing twenty things at once as usual!!


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Sorry Slakey, I'm a bit behind, doing twenty things at once as usual!!


No problem... Would get Milo trained by my main priority since he's young and they learn most when they are young, or would it be Zeus? He sits great, but everything else I'm not sure on...

If there is no other dog on the playing field then I let Zeus off the lead, and he is generally really good at recall and very rarely goes too far for me to need to recall really loud, considering he hasn't had any recall training at all.

Walking in general is a hassle, but he's getting better, but only whilst wearing his harness, I think it's time to get a bigger and stronger one now, possible with on of those shock absorber leads, laying down in the house is good too, really just needs work on getting him to do it outside the house.


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

Hi,can i just add to the excellant advice Dundee and Sleeping Lion have given you.
If you are interested in dvd's John Halstead of DrakesHead kennells do two .
One on puppy/young dog training and a more advanced one for field work and trialing.
Good luck


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

slakey said:


> No problem... Would get Milo trained by my main priority since he's young and they learn most when they are young, or would it be Zeus? He sits great, but everything else I'm not sure on...
> 
> If there is no other dog on the playing field then I let Zeus off the lead, and he is generally really good at recall and very rarely goes too far for me to need to recall really loud, considering he hasn't had any recall training at all.
> 
> Walking in general is a hassle, but he's getting better, but only whilst wearing his harness, I think it's time to get a bigger and stronger one now, possible with on of those shock absorber leads, laying down in the house is good too, really just needs work on getting him to do it outside the house.


Just noticed your post about a harness, there are two things about harnesses that are no good for medium to large sized dogs.

First off, if they aren't fitted properly then they can actually damage the developing skeletal structure. Secondly, they give a dog something to pull into.

I didn't train my two like this, but a lot of gundog folk have advised the importance of getting your pup to walk with you off lead, and introducing the lead at a later date. John's book does go into this method of teaching heel work.


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

Thanks, I recognise DrakesHead... I think DrakesHead is in Milo's family tree.

Would there be any other way to assist me while I walk Zeus, because he is extremely powerful, would the shock absorber help more then what I currently use?


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> Get it used to guns from an early age as possible


Sorry, I disagree with this, gunshot needs to be introduced carefully but not necessarily as early as possible.



> Ideally the dog is not a pet, so it should live outside, this seperates it from you and the family and makes it more attentive when you are training and helps protect the dogs nose - central heating with render a dogs nose useless if you want to work him.


Again, I disagree. Yes, there are some benefits to kennelling a dog, particularly if you are wanting a top trial dog, but I can assure you my open test dog is sleeping right next to me on the sofa and she has an excellent nose and competes very successfully too.


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## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Sorry, I disagree with this, gunshot needs to be introduced carefully but not necessarily as early as possible.
> 
> Again, I disagree. Yes, there are some benefits to kennelling a dog, particularly if you are wanting a top trial dog, but I can assure you my open test dog is sleeping right next to me on the sofa and she has an excellent nose and competes very successfully too.


Totally agree with you


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

Dundee said:


> Sorry, I disagree with this, gunshot needs to be introduced carefully but not necessarily as early as possible.
> 
> Again, I disagree. Yes, there are some benefits to kennelling a dog, particularly if you are wanting a top trial dog, but I can assure you my open test dog is sleeping right next to me on the sofa and she has an excellent nose and competes very successfully too.


Yes i'd agree completely with Dundee.
We don't shoot over our pups until they are approx 7 to 8 months and start from a good distance and also with a 'quieter' shotgun such as a 410 if you can find somebody who has one and progress slowly up to a 12 bore (louder)decreasing the distance over a period of time.


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

No chance will my boys sleep outside. They sleep where ever they want at the minute. But if the kitchen extension is gonna happen then they'll be in the kitchen, once it's all done and safe.


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## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

Looks like my views are out gunned on this one...teehee! We'll have to agree to disagree. My dogs have always been around shoots from very early on (at a distance) to get them used to the number of other dogs and the sounds and smells. 

If I put the dogs to bed they sleep outside, but my wife lets them sleep in the ulility room, I don't think they are as hardy, eager or as effective because of this. But I can't hit anything anyway, nothing but the easy shots, so it makes little difference. I prefer to work the dogs most of the day and put the birds up, my dogs enjoy it and so do I.

I'm sure we'll need to agree to disagree or this could go on a ruin the thread.


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> Looks like my views are out gunned on this one...teehee! We'll have to agree to disagree. My dogs have always been around shoots from very early on (at a distance) to get them used to the number of other dogs and the sounds and smells.
> 
> If I put the dogs to bed they sleep outside, but my wife lets them sleep in the ulility room, I don't think they are as hardy, eager or as effective because of this. But I can't hit anything anyway, nothing but the easy shots, so it makes little difference. I prefer to work the dogs most of the day and put the birds up, my dogs enjoy it and so do I.
> 
> I'm sure we'll need to agree to disagree or this could go on a ruin the thread.


I agree No point rowing is there. I've got two that live out and two inside, So i'm on the fence with that one. What age do you take your's near a gun then?


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

Sylvestris Kennels said:


> Looks like my views are out gunned on this one...teehee! We'll have to agree to disagree. My dogs have always been around shoots from very early on (at a distance) to get them used to the number of other dogs and the sounds and smells.
> 
> If I put the dogs to bed they sleep outside, but my wife lets them sleep in the ulility room, I don't think they are as hardy, eager or as effective because of this. But I can't hit anything anyway, nothing but the easy shots, so it makes little difference. I prefer to work the dogs most of the day and put the birds up, my dogs enjoy it and so do I.
> 
> I'm sure we'll need to agree to disagree or this could go on a ruin the thread.


Yes,sure,i see your point about being around gunshot at a distance 
sorry i thought you meant 'shot over'.
We are the same as you in that respect as we live right in the middle of the shoot so they hear it 4 days a week all season so yes,it probably does help them accept it.
Like you i would rather work the dogs and leave the shooting to the men


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

bucksmum said:


> Yes,sure,i see your point about being around gunshot at a distance
> sorry i thought you meant 'shot over'.
> We are the same as you in that respect as we live right in the middle of the shoot so they hear it 4 days a week all season so yes,it probably does help them accept it.
> Like you i would rather work the dogs and leave the shooting to the men


I'm the same I love working my dog's I kind of have 2 season's i love doggin in with my boy. And picking up with my girl, Still enjoy beating as well


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

Badger's Mum said:


> I'm the same I love working my dog's I kind of have 2 season's i love doggin in with my boy. And picking up with my girl, Still enjoy beating as well


Hi,i know what you mean.We have been dogging in like mad the past two weeks,dogs love it and they are super fit


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## Sylvestris Kennels (May 12, 2009)

Badger's Mum said:


> I agree No point rowing is there. I've got two that live out and two inside, So i'm on the fence with that one. What age do you take your's near a gun then?


Well my last was on the shoot from 6 months - to watch and observe only, but the new one is now 8 months and she's not been out with anybody but me - she is a little wayward - but equally I haven't put the time in so "you reap what you sow" - I do less then I used to and if you don't put the effort in you don't get the benefit.


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## Badger's Mum (Mar 23, 2009)

bucksmum said:


> Hi,i know what you mean.We have been dogging in like mad the past two weeks,dogs love it and they are super fit


Tell me about it. I've been taking Badger as well It's getting her nice and steady to the bird's. I'm going to start three time's aday from tomorrow the bugger's are everywhere at the momment


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## lifeizsweet (Jun 7, 2009)

My lab puppy has heard been hearing gun shots from a very young age, he's on a working farm most days and there is a very persistant fox there. Not over head shooting, but he's not been phased by it.


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

Well it's only a thought for Milo, just so I could possibly carry on what his bloodline has achieved really...

*don't flame me on this one*
I may be looking to stud him out when he's older, not 100% sure yet, but if I do decide to stud him out, I want him to win a few medals before doing so, sort of like bringing out his best, so I don't get any average joe wanting to mate their bitch with Milo, basically I'll want the cream of the crop.

But like I said please don't flame me as it's not set in stone yet... it all depends if I can compete with him first, then go onto breed.


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

slakey said:


> Well it's only a thought for Milo, just so I could possibly carry on what his bloodline has achieved really...
> 
> *don't flame me on this one*
> I may be looking to stud him out when he's older, not 100% sure yet, but if I do decide to stud him out, I want him to win a few medals before doing so, sort of like bringing out his best, so I don't get any average joe wanting to mate their bitch with Milo, basically I'll want the cream of the crop.
> ...


Hiya,
I think your attitude is great,making sure he is a good example of his breed before studding him out.
Just one thing if you are going to use him at stud he will need hips,eyes and optigen,elbows,cnm testing.
The only reason i mention this now is because we have our labs hip and elbow scored at 13 months to check the hips are all ok before the more vigorus,long distance training (jumping,long distance retrieves etc).
The annual eye test we do at 1 year then every year and optigen and cnm is a dna blood test which is done once only.
I wish you loads of luck with him


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> Well it's only a thought for Milo, just so I could possibly carry on what his bloodline has achieved really...
> 
> *don't flame me on this one*
> I may be looking to stud him out when he's older, not 100% sure yet, but if I do decide to stud him out, I want him to win a few medals before doing so, sort of like bringing out his best, so I don't get any average joe wanting to mate their bitch with Milo, basically I'll want the cream of the crop.
> ...


Just a word of caution (and certainly not to flame you ) - I seem to remember your puppy's dam wasn't health tested. As Bucksmum says, it is important to get him health tested, but you will find potential bitch owners will be looking at the health test results of his parents, grandparents and great grandparents too and having a non health tested tested parent will count against him. Bear in mind that it is the bitch owner that choses the stud dog and they have the pick of some very good dogs with health test history behind them.

Take things one step at a time. Start training and enjoy. If he does well you will find people will approach you to see if they can use him.
Good luck


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## slakey (May 9, 2009)

I'll most probably have those tests done, even if I don't stud him out, just as a look out, for any possible future problems.

The mother didn't get her eyes tested.

When's the earliest I can get his eyes tested?


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

slakey said:


> I'll most probably have those tests done, even if I don't stud him out, just as a look out, for any possible future problems.
> 
> The mother didn't get her eyes tested.
> 
> When's the earliest I can get his eyes tested?


For the annual eye test 12 months,the kennelclub can give you a list of vets that can do this as not all vets can and the optigen you could do before.
Good luck.


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