# Evil Cat



## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

My cat is sometimes a total monster, she attacks and hates everyone, except my boyfriend, she goes after the dog, she bites me and honestly I don't really know what to do in order to try and convince her not to attack, or mangle our doorframes. She is very destructive. Anything I can do to try and stop her?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi and welcome to the forum

In order to have any chance of changing your cat's behaviour it is important for us to try and work out exactly *why* she is behaving as she is.

So, a few questions:

1. How old is she? Is she spayed? If so, how long ago was she spayed?

2. How old was she when you got her? Do you know what age she left her mother?

3. If she was a rescue, do you know much about her background?

4. Apart from your dog and cat do you have any other pets? Who was there first, the dog or the cat?

5. Does your cat go out? If she is indoors all the time, does she have plenty of room to run around and play?

An indoor cat, especially a young cat, (yours sounds young) needs a lot of entertaining to keep them happy. If you and your b/f are out at work all day, your cat probably sleeps. Then when you arrive home she is ready for play, so this is what you have to do for an hour or so.

If you do not already have some, I would get some interactive toys such as fishing rod toys like Da Bird, and wand toys (with feathers on), also a laser toy, and little balls to chase, all to get her running about and using energy. 
Don't let her play with your hands at all if she bites or scratches them.

Does she have several nice tall (ceiling high) cat trees to run up and down and enjoy scratching? Rub the cat trees every day with powdered cat nip to attract her to them and leave your furniture and door frames alone. Also, try some of the cardboard cat scratchers placed flat on the floor, or wall mounted ones. Rub them all with catnip.

When you see her scratching your door frames, take her calmly to one of her cat scratchers and very *gently* pad her paws up and down on it to show her what to do. You can also do the movement on the scratching post yourself with your fingernails, when she is watching.

The other thing is about diet. Feed her a nutritious diet high in meat protein. *No dry food* at all, as it is full of carbs and causes extremes of high and low blood sugar, which can make some cats bad tempered & edgy. If you want to buy from pet stores, Hilife Natures Essentials has a high meat content and is grain free. Otherwise there is more choice of good quality foods if you buy online from places like Zooplus.

Also, it is really important to make sure she is getting enough to eat. Cats can be aggressive to humans when they are hungry. If she is a young adult cat (over the age of 2.5) of average size and weight, she will need about 
250 grams of wet food a day. If she's still growing (if under age 2.5) then she may need more like 300 grams a day until she is fully grown.


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

Our cat is 2.5 years old. When we got her she was 8 weeks old and was never so violent. She started being mean until she was about 1.5 years old. She had no instigation aside from moving to a new home. 

Better than that, our cat has more than 2000 square feet of house to run around in, and is NEVER as in 90% alone. We live in a house where two people don't work day to day. I myself don't have a job at all and am only away when I absolutely have to leave. 

We don't have cat trees but our cat likes cardboard so we give her boxes and cardboard creations to claw, she does claw them she knows what they are for, and still claws the door frames...

Our cat has tons of attention, TONS of Kitty toys and tons of love. The dog was in this house first, we moved here after my boyfriends mom passed away we have only been here since September the cat and dog are only a couple months different in age, the cat goes with my boyfriend and I and the dog ( who doesn't care what the cat does honestly) stays here. 

I think I answered everything hope someone can help


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

Oh also, she is an indoor cat and is not spayed, despite constant reccomendations to have her spayed it is personal beliefs that prohibit the spaying


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## Sansa (Oct 19, 2011)

Then I am very sorry to say that your cat's behaviour will not alter if you will not have her spayed. It is also very likely that due to repeated callings without pregnancy she will get pyrometra (an uterine infection - google it, I didn't want to post links because the wiki entry has some rather gruesome photos) and then will either need an emergency spay anyway, or she will die.

Your cat is not evil. She's constantly in call, crazy with hormones and frustrated. It's a miracle she hasn't escaped and mated yet, in which case you'd be risking her getting a plethora of sexually transmitted diseases and adding to the already over-large cat population, neither of which are desirable. You're not doing her any favours health - wise by not having her spayed. Apart from the pyrometra risk, constant calling is very draining on a cat, and detrimental to her health.

Please put your personal beliefs, whatever they are, aside, and put your cat's health first, as any owner should. Have her spayed. She'll be better off for it.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

AlfonzPig said:


> Oh also, she is an indoor cat and is not spayed, despite constant reccomendations to have her spayed it is personal beliefs that prohibit the spaying


It's no accident she likes your boyfriend - she realises he is male and she is sexually frustrated. She lives in hope he can scratch that itch for her.

Spaying not only prevents pyometra, it greatly reduces the risk of breast cancer and the earlier the cat is spayed the greater the reduction. Unfortunately at the age she is now the reduction will be nothing like it could have been several years ago.

I am also puzzled at the beliefs that allow you to keep her without letting her mate (leading to the frustration and unhappyness she is displaying) but prevent you getting her spayed, especially spaying is so much in her best interests. You are her keeper, she doesn't have choice or indeed the ability to make a rational choice about pregnancy (only humans have that) and my own view is you should make what is best for her based on what is best for cats, not humans.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

AlfonzPig said:


> Oh also, she is an indoor cat and is not spayed, despite constant reccomendations to have her spayed it is personal beliefs that prohibit the spaying


Whatever your personal beliefs and I have no idea what those might be, but as owners we have to put the health and welfare of our pets first - pets aren't a right they are a privilege and must come above anything else.

You are obviously concerned for her, otherwise you wouldn't have joined and asked for advise, please take that advice and have her spayed.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

AlfonzPig said:


> Oh also, she is an indoor cat and is not spayed, despite constant reccomendations to have her spayed it is personal beliefs that prohibit the spaying


What are those beliefs then - that an animal shouldn't be spayed because. . . . ? It is very very dangerous for her to continue like this. Constant calling is very, very bad for her. Every year she isn't spayed increases her risk of mammary cancer by 10%.

Whatever you're personal beliefs are for humans you can't put them onto animals as you don't understand their fundamental physiology. Spay her for her health if nothing else. Hopefully then she will calm down.


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

Its clearly impossible for anyone to understand my beliefs and realize that if my cat were unhealthy I would obviously make the right choice for her. We as human beings have no right to destroy what God made. Nor do we have the right to make decisions as to taking away parts of a creature that were put there for a reason. All of my pets are properly cared for, and that is the 100% most important thing. My beliefs have not interfered with my pets lifespan before and I don't appreciate being called irresponsible for them. Every person here has the right to choose what is best for their pets.

I have spoken to my vet and she understands my place and observes in case necessary actions must be taken. I asked for advice on an angry/mean cat, not for a lecture on my moral guidance

Thank you for your advice, I will consult my veterinarian about my cat problems.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Well, there you are then - you will not be able to stop your cat because you cannot put aside your own 'beliefs' (not sure which religion this comes from) in order to do the best for her. If she has a closed pyometra her womb will fill with pus and explode inside her and she will die - there is very, very little your vet will be able to do for her. The more calls she has the more likely this is to happen. You are indeed shortening her life. Playing God with her in fact. If we weren't meant to interfere then you shouldn't have pets at all - a cat wasn't 'made' to be our pet, it was made to live outside and hunt. Already you have altered her life cycle, so why not put aside beliefs for a human and do the best for your cat. 

You will just have to put up with an aggressive cat - who is constantly sexually frustrated and the problem will probably 
escalate.

ONly religion I can think of which would think like this is Catholic - am I right?


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

AlfonzPig said:


> Oh also, she is an indoor cat and is not spayed, *despite constant reccomendations *to have her spayed it is personal beliefs that prohibit the spaying


There is a reason why these recommendations are made....... I think when you consult your vet again and explain how distruptive your cat has become, then they will also now recommend spaying your cat.

BTW your cat isn't evil, just hormonal!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

AlfonzPig said:


> Its clearly impossible for anyone to understand my beliefs and realize that if my cat were unhealthy I would obviously make the right choice for her. We *as human beings have no right to destroy what God made. Nor do we have the right to make decisions as to taking away parts of a creature that were put there for a reason*. All of my pets are properly cared for, and that is the 100% most important thing. My beliefs have not interfered with my pets lifespan before and I don't appreciate being called irresponsible for them. Every person here has the right to choose what is best for their pets.
> *
> I have spoken to my vet and she understands my place and observes in case necessary actions must be taken*. I asked for advice on an angry/mean cat, not for a lecture on my moral guidance
> 
> Thank you for your advice, I will consult my veterinarian about my cat problems.


Are you planning to allow "these parts" you claim "god" made, to be used for that purpose If not then is that not interfering with their use ?
...................

I just hope if the time comes where your vet has to act because of your misguided beliefs,she is able to save your cats life,because it could come down to exactly that 

You have the right to ignore the advice being posted just as the members have the right to post it.Our advice is have her neutered for her healths sake and as a result of that neutering you will most likely have a much happier/less aggressive ,certainly healthier cat.


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

Given your beliefs about neutering, your cat being 'evil' and that there is probably no resolution to the issue other than neutering. I suggest you take your poor puss to a shelter. A shelter or new owner will be able to put the cat's best interests before their own beliefs.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Alfonz, I am very disappointed indeed to hear you have not had your cat spayed. It is undoubtedly her hormones, and her sexual frustration at not being mated that are causing her to be so aggressive and unhappy.

Of course as you say she began showing these symptoms by age 1.5 years, as that is when she began to feel sexually frustrated, no doubt having "called" several times by then.

I just do not understand how you can be so selfish and leave your poor cat in this awful state! This is one of the most upsetting posts I have read recently, because there is something so obvious you can *easily* do to relieve your cat's suffering and yet you are refusing to take the proper action. How can you be so unkind to an animal you are supposed to care about? I am sorry it is not good enough to say it is because of your "beliefs". 
I do not know of any religion that does not say compassion for animals is vital. So where is your compassion for your cat?

If you absolutely insist on leaving her unspayed then you must allow her to be properly mated, safely with another cat who has been health checked.
You must not leave her to call all her life, putting her at serious risk of 
a dangerous womb infection (pyometra) as others have mentioned.

If your vet is telling you it is OK to treat your cat like this, then he or she is being irresponsible, and I strongly advise you to take advice from another vet.

The other thing is I am afraid giving her cardboard boxes to scratch and tear up is not sufficient. She is an indoor cat so she needs her own proper permanent scratching posts so she can scent-mark them as her territory. 
It is an unkindness to deny her this -- all cats need to scent mark by scratching, and if they are indoors and cannot scratch trees and fences, then you need to provide them with as many opportunities as possible indoors.

So if you have a large house or apartment as you say, then she needs a large stable cat tree, or scratching post in *every * room where she is allowed to go.


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## LDK1 (Oct 1, 2010)

chillminx said:


> This is one of the most upsetting posts I have read recently, because there is something so obvious you can *easily* do to relieve your cat's suffering and yet you are refusing to take the proper action.


^^^ I agree wholeheartedly.


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## Maerose (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm speechless at your lack of empathy for an animal you claim to love. I wish I could find the words that would make you understand just how cruel you are being but I'm not sure that there are any that you'd listen to. You are putting what you want ahead of what your cat needs. Calling it a belief does not validate it. 

Please do want your cat needs you to do and get her spayed. If you really can't put your cat's health and happiness ahead of your own 'beliefs' then please allow her to be homed with someone who will.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

buy cat phermone spay ,spray where she s misbehavin
this was supposed to read pheremone spray, and it was genuine spelling mistake not freudian slip...


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

moggiemum said:


> buy cat phermone spay ,spray where she s misbehavin


Or just do the right thing


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

hello,
my tom is 2 yrs he is so beautiful nature i would want his genes to b 
passed on but he s getting the snip soon cause i cantt find him gfriend


sorry for posting this view in the wrong section, belongs in the breeding forum


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

i would also like to add when he s feelin hormonal i find ways of takin his mind off it, play, love, grooming cat nip, valerian i actually havent tried spray yet , very expensive


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I cant believe what this person has said about her poor cat, i dont often feel as angry as i do just now when someone asks for advice then ignores it because of her "beliefs" she clearly doesnt love this cat, calling it evil is terrible
The poor thing must be so miserable, but as long as the owner believes it is evil, not unhappy what can anyone do or say, 
I agree that if the vet is saying its fine for this poor cat to be left in this state he/she is being very irresponsible in not advising what is best for the cat
In the end it will end up being rehomed, or more miserable living with someone who will get to resent it scratching her,and going for the dog
I wonder if the dog is neutered, i would guess not


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

moggiemum said:


> hello, my tom is 2 yrs he is so beautiful nature i would want his genes to b passed on but he s getting the snip soon cause i cantt find him gfriend


We all think our cats are beautiful, but it doesn't mean we want their genes passed on 

What do you mean, you can't find him a girlfriend


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Time for the popcorn now I think!


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

spid said:


> Time for the popcorn now I think!


Time for bed you mean. This place is sooooooooooo boring :Yawn:

The cat section of Pet Forums should be renamed Groundhog Day :Yawn:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

AlfonzPig said:


> Its clearly impossible for anyone to understand my beliefs and realize that if my cat were unhealthy I would obviously make the right choice for her. We as human beings have no right to destroy what God made. Nor do we have the right to make decisions as to taking away parts of a creature that were put there for a reason.
> 
> <snip>
> My beliefs have not interfered with my pets lifespan before
> ...


You have been lucky, so far. But by preventing your cat mating, you are still stopping her reproductive organs fulfilling their God-given purpose.

I take it you don't cut your hair or your nails, neither does your b/f, nor does he trim his beard.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

OrientalSlave said:


> You have been lucky, so far. But by preventing your cat mating, you are still stopping her reproductive organs fulfilling their God-given purpose.
> 
> I take it you don't cut your hair or your nails, neither does your b/f, nor does he trim his beard.


Or wear mixed fibres, or eat pig, and I seriously hope there is no premarital sex going on! Cos she'd have to be stoned to death for that.


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## Sansa (Oct 19, 2011)

And never mind about taking antibiotics, operating a swollen appendix or pulling an inflamed wisdom tooth! That's all removing our god-given things, that obviously have a purpose.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

No one in their right mind wants to live with a calling girl, with each heat cycle getting closer together until they're in an almost constant state of heat.

Not only the cats mental state that's an issue, the owner would soon go round the bend as well.


I daresay the vet is not ok with this decision, but sadly cannot force them into doing the right thing. All they can do is operate when the cat comes in with pyo, an infection, breast cancer etc. and hope it's been caught in time - which is pretty unlikely since most owners don't know the early signs of pyo which can be difficult to spot.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

spid said:


> Or wear mixed fibres, or eat pig, and I seriously hope there is no premarital sex going on! Cos she'd have to be stoned to death for that.


Eating pig might be OK (e.g. they are not jews or muslims) but I hope none of their meat is from animals that have been castrated, tail or beak clipped or had anything else done to make them easier to keep.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Ok ladies this is getting a little too close to being on the wrong side of what can be posted. Please keep the religious issues out of the comments. 

The op clearly has issues none of us can understand.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

This is true - none of can understand why you would pick and choose which bits of a religion to 'use' when the health of an animal is at stake!

By all means be religious or non religious but do the best by everyone and every animal.


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

Allright. At first I chose to just leave this post alone, but looking for the advice and not the criticism I came back. I am AMAZED at you people. 

I understand your displeasure at MY choice for MY cat but HOW DARE YOU indicate that I don't love or care for my cat. HOW DARE YOU call me a bad person when I give her a loving affectionate home where OH MY GOODNESS the dog is indeed fixed, because when he was a VERY YOUNG RESCUE PUPPY he had bad enough urinary tract infection that when he was old enough he was fixed in order to prevent this from ever happening again. 

I don't appreciate being pinned as a bad person I am a loving and caring person. You assume that my cat is intended to live her life unfixed calling for the world to hear her and that I wouldn't know the signs if something bad happened to her, or that I don't intend to let her breed. I sure as heck wasn't going to breed her in her first year its cruel and disgusting the cat needs love and life before I let her have kittens. Which by the way has been under discussion between my boyfriend and myself for quite some time, however we want to find a guarunteed healthy male and be sure that our cat doesn't get sick.

You people sicken me honestly, you give advice about dogs and.cats that is really helpful and yet attack someone because they don't believe the same things as you? You go at me like I'm a horrible person without asking if I even intend to let my cat breed? I don't understand how you can all live with making disgusting assumptions about people without knowing who they are or what they do with their pets, but shame on you. 

By the way, my cat has a forever home, where she has everything she needs including to very intelligent, loving and observative people who care for her daily and never EVER mistreat her. Her " evil " nature and I say evil, but its a joke between my boyfriend and I, either way her evil nature is predatory I already knew this it isn't sexual frustration, sheis a predator and she lies in wait for the attack. We accept her actions and would NEVER send her away because of them. The cat is NOT neglected she has many scratching items such as the cardboard I mentioned which isn't just a cardboard box, its a homemade scratching item which is large and has many layers and can be easily replace any time, she hasn't got a need to feel bothered if it gets destroyed because she loves it and knows a new on will be provided. 

Try giving advice, not attacks when someone disagrees with you. I never once said the cat wont ever be fixed, I said my beliefs don't agree with it, but if I went into " heat " all the time but never planned on having kids I would make the right choice for.myself despite my beliefs and if my boyfriend and I decided that our cat shouldn't have kittens we would OG COURSE begin talking about having her spayed because despite.what you seem to think of me, I am intelligent I don't get pets without all the research and I.don't make.decisions without talking to my vetrenarian and since we haven't come to the 100% choice to let her breed once, we haven't come to the 100% decision to take that away from her either. Again. Shame on you

Seriously shame on you I would rather go speak to animal testing scientists than ask any of you for advice again at least they would make sure their scalpels were clean and sterilized before they tried to tear my heart out with it.


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## thatsafunnylookingcat (Apr 21, 2012)

AlfonzPig said:


> By the way, my cat has a forever home, where she has everything she needs including to very intelligent, loving and observative people who care for her daily and never EVER mistreat her.


 including two very intelligent people*

With regards to that entire post. Words fail me. There are so many things wrong with everything you have just said that I don't even want to think about it.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Your cat is already really too old for a first litter - let alone the problems you are going to have finding a stud - and if you are sure her behaviour issues are nothing to do with sexual frustration then you shouldn't be breeding from her -as only the sweetest temperament cats should be used. YOu are also going to be adding to the moggy population and there is the beginning s of the seasonal kitten explosion happening already. Unless you are going to keep all the kittens yourself then there is a thought that you are taking away rescue places form other kittens/cats. 

If you do do it (which I don't recommend) - then you need to make sure both your cat and the stud have a test to make sure both are FIV and FeLV negative, both should be up to date on worming, flea treatment and vaccinations. You need to read the sticky at the top of the breeding forum on the costs of having a litter and all that you need to make sure you cope with any emergencies. Kittens should be kept with mum until at least 10 weeks old, and should preferably go to their new homes after their jabs (and preferably ready neutered). 

I wouldn't breed an aggressive cat though - as she will teach her kittens to be aggressive too. Not nice. And if you just let her out to mate the local king pin moggy then you are putting her in danger of getting a sexually transmitted disease. And that king pin male will be the nastiest male who has won breeding rights by fighting. So a double chance of having aggressive kittens. And who knows how many other cats that males has impregnated (hence the chance of a sexually transmitted disease).

I would seriously reconsider mating her - she's not really what you would want her kittens to turn out like. You can't keep all the kittens either as having entire males and females in the house even if they are related will result in incest. Cats don't understand familial boundaries.


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## Kyria (Oct 29, 2011)

Just caught up with this post, its absolutely heartbreaking. God help this poor wee cat, its so very sad.. People like you should not be allowed to have animals.


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

Spid.

I just wanted to say thank you VERY much for your post. It was very helpful to myself and my boyfriend and you gave very helpful advice for us making our decision. I wouldn't Eever want to breed out aggressive kittens ( and yes my cat is aggressive and not sexually frustrated, our vet says she is likely the product of a cat who was raised outdoors predominantly and has learned to be predatory by instinct rather than always being affectionate which she mostly is)

I would never do the wrong thing for my cat, even though she is aggressive we still love her all the same as when she is loving she is very loving. I am not the kind of person who would mistreat my animal, and your post has been helpful in making our decision for our cat. Breeding her probably isn't a good choice as she will simply train her kittens to stalk and attack as well. 

We have indeed been to a vet, also and spoke to them about the costs of having our cat spayed, as I said this is not a complete impossibility however MY beliefs have to be sure she will be allright, undue stress to the cat literally makes me sick to my stomach I simply want her happy and for that I take everything into consideration.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Thank you for reading my post in the light in which it was written. 

I honestly, honestly can say your cat will be happier and healthier and much less stressed as a spayed cat - it should cost around £60. Being in call week after week after week for the rest of her life will indeed be stressful (and shorten her life) for your cat, as well as the associated health risks. 

For her aggression (and I still think some of it will be related to being in call all the time - not all cats are noisy many are silent callers and you don't know about it at the time - but it doesn't mean it is any the less stressful for her) have you tried using a) feliway diffusers and b) zyklene tablets to help calm her down. You can get these from the vets or the internet they are often recommended by vets and pet behaviouralists. If you have her insured you could probably get the help of a behaviourist who may help you to change your cat's aggression.


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

I live in Ontario, Canada, having my cat spayed is a much larger investment of 280$ ( I intend to consult many other vetrenarians however) 

I have heard about felieway but can't find it anywhere around where I live.

I understood your post was advice, and good advice as well. I appreciate you talking to me, and not attacking me.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Try the internet for feliway - it is great stuff for most cats.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

$280!!!! Really? Is this typical or is your vet $$$? However even if that is what it costs in your neck of the woods it's still cheaper than raising a litter.


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## Maerose (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm really glad you've decided to get her spayed, she will be much happier and you may be able to teach her to be less aggressive once she's less hormonal. 

I too would recommend Feliway diffusers as they're great at helping 'highly strung' kitties.

We can get very passionate on here when it comes to the health of our animals.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I understand you may feel set upon, and even insulted, by some of the comments, but please try to understand that people are reacting out of genuine concern for your cat.

Many of the people who reacted are highly experienced breeders of various breeds of cat, and they know much more about un-neutered cats and the risks they run than 90% of all vets.

Your cat is not evil.
Evil is a human concept, based on cognitive brain functions and freedom of choice. Animals do not possess these, their reactions are based on instinct and hormonal triggers. Your cat is reacting to her instincts, fed by hormonal triggers, and a physical inability to fulfill these instincts.

Much as you love your pets, if your beliefs stand in the way of perceiving an animal as an animal and make you attribute human values to them, and force these human values upon them, you cannot do right by your pets.

Please believe me when I tell you that everyone who reacted to your posts is at least as disturbed by your views as you are by theirs. NOT because they do not respect you or your beliefs, but because these views, and the way you put them into practice, pose a serious health risk to your cat, and because they felt nothing they said was being taken on board, because you deemed their comments incompatible with your beliefs.

There are people of various nationalities, ages and religions on this forum, but what binds us is the common conviction that whatever our background, the interests of the cats come first. If people feel a cat's life is at risk, and the owner refuses to acknowledge this risk, they - naturally - get upset and frustrated, and go to even greater lengths to try and get their point across.

Please view the comments in this thread against this background, and you will see that what you percieve as an attack on you is really an expression of frustration and desperation about the cat's seemingly hopeless plight.


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Canadian, opps thought you were American


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

280$ is the least expensive vet cost, I will probably end up having to pay more because the inexpensive vet is older than dirt, and I don't really trust their services. Cost isn't an issue however, its finding the right veterinarian who will be sure its done properly and will make sure she is cared for in case of infection or other issues that may arise. Its a lot of calling around and meeting to do, and we live quite out of the way of a vet if I have an emergency so I need to know what vets will be available 24/7


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

I am an open minded person and don't get me wrong I love that you are all compassionate about animals I am as well, I do not like the implications that deemed me as an animal abuser. 

My cat is not human, however she and my other pets are the only children I have right now and I would lay down my life to keep them safe no matter what, thus when I make a choice for them, I make sure I am making the 100% right choice.

Thank you all for your concern for my cat, and I am not a dense person I do understand your stand point on all of the information you have given me, but I have to make my decision the right way, not just flying by the seat of my pants


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## CoCoTrio (Jan 3, 2013)

It's great that you're still here AP. :thumbsup:


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

Thank you, I may get angry about how people talk to me, but I would NEVER abandon good advice for my pets because of it.


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## Dozla (Feb 22, 2013)

Hi I haven't read all the comments as there are alot of them and I am tired lol.. dont know if anyone has suggested this but have you thought about an implant or the cat pill? that way you don't need to take away parts of your cat that are meant to be there but you will stop her calling and being stressed and you get your happy non evil cat back


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

To be honest I didn't even know there was an implant or cat pill, I would have thought my vet might have mentioned those when I spoke of my apprehension at having my cat fixed.

We are talking more now about spaying her, Spid was very helpful in our deciding not to breed her, as aggressive kittens would be far to unreasonable to get people to adopt.


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

I think I attatched a picture. If I did, this is Shmoopy. If I didn't, I don't know how to do it lol


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Hi,

Spid and the others are giving you excellent advice, and you are in truly expert hands there 

Having read through your posts, I just wanted to pick up on a few things and apply some pure logic, so please bear with me - it might help. 

First, you say you are sure your cat is just aggressive/predatory and not sexually frustrated. You also seem to accept that an aggressive cat will raise agressive kittens. However, you also say that for the first year and a half of her life, she wasn't aggressive. Now, I'm no expert on kittens, but all those I have known that belong to friends have never undergone any drastic personality change when maturing, and most are relatively mature before 1.5 years old. That implies she was not born aggressive, and that something happened to change her.

So, could it have been the move? Maybe it didn't help, but if that was a year ago (as implied by her becoming aggressive at 1.5 years of age with the only potential external factor being a house move, and her now being 2.5 years old) then she should have settled some since then. So that does not sound like the only factor.

Maybe predatory instinct kicking in rather late, then, as opposed to being obvious from a young age? Possibly, but having know barn cats on farms (and seen them hunt rabbits!), I can't name a single one who wouldn't come to me for a fuss. Next doors cat is a prolific hunter, but affable to look after when they're away. Also, I know my cat hunts, yet she is as cuddly a soppy as you could hope to meet (currently asleep on my feet, slept in my arms under the duvet all last night). She even let me rescue a live mouse from her mouth last year! So, predatory does not equal agressive.

You also say she obsessed with clawing things like doorframes. That is classic territory marking behaviour, as exhibited by both wild and domestic cats alike. And unspayed/unneutered cats are far more territorial than spayed/neutered cats.

Then there is the way she is aggressive towards everyone but your boyfriend - a cat hunting for a mate will want the favours of the local 'alpha male', and will try to both attract him and deter rivals. As she is an indoor cat, the only alpha male around is your boyfriend.

Finally, Spid and the others are right (and have breeding experience to back it up) - not all female cats 'call' vocally, some are totally silent. But the stresses on her are the same, as are the frustrations of not being able to break the cycle by mating. And it does have negative effects on her health, too. One of the ladies on this forum rescued a cat who had been left to call unmated for years, and as a result has had some really scary health issues, including a recent cancer scare.

So, whilst there may be other contributing factors, the most logical conclusion for the majority of your female's aggression is simply that she is both unspayed and unmated. That leaves you two main choices (other than leaving things the way they are):

*1)* Mating her. As Spid and others have said, that is risky. Just letting her outside will undoubtably result in her being mated, but you won't know to what cat, or if that cat has feline STDs or other nasty diseases. Also, there is a very real chance of injury, my (spayed) cat was attacked and bitten by an aggressive male tomcat right on my back doorstep a month ago, and she is still recovering from her wounds.

So, you'd need to find a responsible tomcat owner (responsible as in who has had all the pre-breeding tests done as mentioned, and also insists your girl also has all the pre-breeding health tests, with paperwork available on both sides. Anyone who doesn't should not be trusted.) who is willing to mate to your cat. That will likely prove more difficult than you imagine, as not many pedigree owners are going to want to mate their stud boys to a random cat. And not many moggy tomcat owners are going to want the expense of getting the tests done.

Then there is the stress on your cat's body of being pregnant, the potential for pregnancy complications, the possibility of emergency caesarian sections etc. You need to have a couple of thousand dollars put aside just in case to cover emergencies. Then there is the cost of raising the kittens for the first 10-12 weeks of their lives, plus finding good homes for them - and there are a LOT of homeless cats out there already, so plenty of competition for homes.

And, of course, it would only be a short term thing. Responsible pedigree breeders retire and spay their queens by around age 5 at the latest in most cases, often younger, due to the stresses pregnancy puts on the body. So, after mating her, then what? Keeping her mated year after year will wear her body out very, very quickly, possibly before she makes double figures, even if all the pregnancies go perfectly. Which means, if you want to keep her healthy, you will still have to face the second option choice:

*2)* Get her spayed. Yes, an operation is stressful, but compared with the constant stresses of mating and pregancy, it is one off and minor. It also reduces her risk of various very nasty illnesses, as already discussed. And it is entirely possible that once she is no longer being driven by mating hormones, she might eventually revert to being the friendly cat she was when she was young - it might take quite a while, given the length of time she has now been aggressive, but with time and patience many things are possible 

You could of course consult a behavioural therapist first, if it would set your mind at rest, but you would have to be prepared that they might well say exactly the same thing about spaying.

Anyway, hope that helps. I'm sure the others will correct me on any bits I may have got wrong!

~Jes


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## CoCoTrio (Jan 3, 2013)

Shmoopy has a lovely face. 

and a cute name. 

I'm sure everyone here will be keen to hear lots more about her, and about how you get on with sorting things out for her so that she's at peace. Whatever the vet's bill is, it's worth every penny.


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

Thank you Jes.

We have already decided, thanks to informative advice, not to breed her.

As previously stated, spaying where I live is pretty expensive, and if I am going to invest money in my cat, I need to make the proper actions and find the proper vet to do so. I will most likely end up paying somewhere between 280$ and 400$ depending on which vetrenarian I choose, and if I am going to invest that money for her spaying, as well as her booster shots and probably a dermatological exam to be sure our woodstove isn't affecting her too poorly I need a vet I can go to at any time in case of emergency.

Our current vet is more expensive, but they are fantastic with our pets, however their clinic is split between two towns, one is 20 minutes away, which is not too far but their other clinic for emergency visits is 1.5 hours away which is concerning to me if something happens it may be too far away.

Our cat has had to move twice, and she has only lived with the dog since September, as we only recently moved in with my boyfriends father then. So her aggression could be in part to the moving, but also she does have very, very high predatory instincts she can find a mouse downstairs from upstairs and it only takes her a couple minutes. She stares birds down from the windows, and will chase any small object that moves in the slightest LOL. 

She is a 100% indoor cat, where we live now we have far too many predictors ( my autocorrect hates that word LOL) and we lived in a busy town before this place, so it has always been far too unsafe for her. No risk of her getting mated by stray cats, she shows no real interest in being outdoors, even when she is in heat.

We are looking at costs for spaying, the first place is our base cost of 280$ and we will keep looking from there. Vet services are vital to me, I want a vet that is good with cats, and can handle a cat who hates all strangers ( as Shmoopy does).


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

well said ,incidentely i read somewhere that cats shouldnt eat pork as its bad for them ,do u know if this true ?


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

To be honest I am not sure, Shmoopy only likes to eat red meat, she wont touch pork. Sometimes she likes fish but not always.

My crazy cat steals crackers and chips if she can get to them.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

she s beautiful,and if i cud fly by the seat of my pants id b comin to visit ....(im in london )...love respect and best wishes


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

Haha unfortunately you wouldn't get a warm welcome, I was being 100% honest she HATES strangers LOL. Even our best friends who are around often get an angry cat welcome.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

phermone spay was genuine spellin mistake suprised no one picked up on it ,so glad this thread has had a nice outcome for all


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

AlfonzPig said:


> To be honest I didn't even know there was an implant or cat pill, I would have thought my vet might have mentioned those when I spoke of my apprehension at having my cat fixed.


Because they're not without health risks and not designed for long term use, many breeders won't touch chemical birth control for cats due to side effects.

Unless your vet is a breeder, or has a lot of breeding clients it wouldn't enter their mind to talk about birth control since they know little about entire cats and the best option health wise is spaying.

Glad you've decided to spay her and hope it's done asap so she doesn't have to keep cycling in and out of heat.


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

She wi be spayed when we find a suitable vet. Clearly since this decision was made today we haven't found anyone. Its Easter weekend still in my town...you never know around my town, tomorrow may also be a vet holiday, it just depends on how they feel.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Have you looked for low-cost neutering clinics near where you live? Although a dollar is less than a pound it is still an astonshing amount to pay to get a cat neutered. The low-cost clinics are very skilled in neutering as it's their speciality.

My own cats (girls as well as boys) have all always bounced straight back. Here in the UK a flank spay is usual for a routine spay with a few stitches under the skin, so no muscle fibres are cut - they are parted - and the cat is usually back to normal the next day if not before.


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## muffin789 (Jan 28, 2013)

Not sure if I'm allowed to post links from other forums, but I thought this might help, AP


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## Gardavia (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't post much here, but I thought I'd pipe in with a link to the main low-cost spay/neuter service in Ontario (where the OP is from).

Ontario SPCA - Spay Neuter Clinic

Although I'm in the UK now, I'm originally from Ontario and know that the vet fees there can be a bit outrageous! If you're anywhere near Newmarket, St. Catherines or Barrie, these clinics are a very good option for low-cost spaying. We've used them in the past and they've been great.


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## AlfonzPig (Mar 30, 2013)

Thanks everyone! I requested fee information from the ospca spay clinic. Its 2.5 hours from where I live, and it would be an entire day away from home but if the cost is what I have previously heard, I don't know why I would turn it down.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

muffin789 said:


> Not sure if I'm allowed to post links from other forums, but I thought this might help, AP


I'd forgotten I'm on that forum too - best get posting!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

This clinic used to offer low cost spaying
Bloor-Kipling Animal Clinic - 3804 Bloor St W, Etobicoke, ON

A couple listed here too
Spay / Neuter Resources Worldwide

When I lived in Montreal one of the university's had a clinic, so if there's one nearby perhaps give them a call too.


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## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

AlfonzPig said:


> Thanks everyone! I requested fee information from the ospca spay clinic. Its 2.5 hours from where I live, and it would be an entire day away from home but if the cost is what I have previously heard, I don't know why I would turn it down.


I don't believe in neutering as a rule of thumb for my pets but I do have my cats neutered it stops a lot of unwanted behaviour and imo they make a better family pet.

I am really pleased you came to this decision, you will not regret it.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

moggiemum said:


> hello, my tom is 2 yrs he is so beautiful nature i would want his genes to b passed on but he s getting the snip soon cause i cantt find him gfriend



Please get him neutered. His genes do not need to be passed on because there are plenty of gorgeous moggies waiting in vain for good homes. Frankly, I am shocked at your attitude.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I have had hundreds of cats spayed. The outcome has been fine in 100% of the cases and the cat recovered well within a day and went on to live a long and happy life


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

koekemakranka said:


> Please
> get him neutered. His genes do not need to be passed on because there
> are plenty of gorgeous moggies waiting in vain for good homes. Frankly, I
> am shocked at your attitude.


hi there, sorry for shocking you,i have realised my views not appropiate or revlalent in this thread and as mentioned b4 i will post in breeding section


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