# 4 dead kittens



## Guest (Dec 30, 2021)

Would somebody kindly be able to answer:
How long would it take for a new born kitten to die from hyperthermia ?
and
How long would it take for a new born kitten to die from blood incompatibility once feed of Mum ?
Any knowledge would be appreciated.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

andrea pattison said:


> Would somebody kindly be able to answer:
> How long would it take for a new born kitten to die from hyperthermia ?
> and
> How long would it take for a new born kitten to die from blood incompatibility once feed of Mum ?
> Any knowledge would be appreciated.


Sorry more questions before I can provide any answer
Are these British Shorthairs? Do you know the blood type of mum and dad?
How old were these kittens? 
Were they feeding well?

I had a kitten who got cold and wasn't responsive as they were c-section babies who were struggling to latch. It was about an hour from last time I checked her to finding her separate from the others and cold. I warmed her in my bra and gave her glucose drops to get her going. She was about 12 hours old at the time.


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## Dick Tracy (Nov 9, 2021)

No knowledge here,. Just alarmed re dead kittens, so rather then reading and ignoring just acknowledging In the hope someone will reply.

So sorry


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## Dick Tracy (Nov 9, 2021)

I see lillythunicorn has replied, thank you.
So my reply is irrelevant . Sorry


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If kittens aren't cared for by their mother hours. Blood group problems take several days and kittens can seem OK at first.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

However I'm guessing these are the bsh delivered by section. There are many more ways to lose kittens.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2021)

Hi these were bsh mum colourpoint bsh blood group b & dad silver black tipped bsh blood group A. Thought mum was due in 3 weeks came home after night away (about 8hrs) to 4 dead kittens 2 alive. Know not compaitible but was going 2 feed 4 24hrs. Just dont know if could die that quickly from NI or hypothermia ?? Or if it was something else I'm driving myself crazy going over & over it Thanks for replies


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2021)

But they we not premature 3 of them weighed 3.30 1 was very small at 2.15oz though


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## bluesunbeam (Oct 21, 2021)

You should be contacting a vet right now before the other two kittens die.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2021)

bluesunbeam said:


> You should be contacting a vet right now before the other two kittens die.


How long would it take for a new born kitten to die from hyperthermia ?
and
How long would it take for a new born kitten to die from blood incompatibility once feed of Mum ?
Any knowledge would be appreciated.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2021)

lillytheunicorn said:


> Sorry more questions before I can provide any answer
> Are these British Shorthairs? Do you know the blood type of mum and dad?
> How old were these kittens?
> Were they feeding well?
> ...


Hi these were bsh mum colourpoint bsh blood group b & dad silver black tipped bsh blood group A. Thought mum was due in 3 weeks came home after night away (about 8hrs) to 4 dead kittens 2 alive. Know not compaitible but was going 2 feed 4 24hrs. Just dont know if could die that quickly from NI or hypothermia ?? Or if it was something else I'm driving myself crazy going over & over it Thanks for replies


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2021)

lillytheunicorn said:


> Sorry more questions before I can provide any answer
> Are these British Shorthairs? Do you know the blood type of mum and dad?
> How old were these kittens?
> Were they feeding well?
> ...


But they we not premature 3 of them weighed 3.30 1 was very small at 2.15oz though


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

andrea pattison said:


> But they we not premature 3 of them weighed 3.30 1 was very small at 2.15oz though


Andrea, you really need to answer any questions you've been asked for us to give you the help you need.
Have you removed the live kittens from mum to bottle feed for 24 hours? 
Have they been seen by a vet? 
When were they born?
You say you thought mum had 3 weeks to go but you're sure the kittens aren't premature- how?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

3 weeks is quite an error on due dates, especially when it was critical the birth be monitored.

Generally the kittens die within a few days from what I've seen (not an issue in my breed). Some breeders use rapid test kits to see which kittens will be affected, others just remove all kittens for 24 hours.



bluesunbeam said:


> You should be contacting a vet right now before the other two kittens die.


unless they have a breeding experienced vet it won't do much good, most vets know little about newborns which is why a good breeder network is crucial, and if it is NI caught too late there's even less point in a vet.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

spotty cats said:


> 3 weeks is quite an error on due dates, especially when it was critical the birth be monitored.
> 
> Generally the kittens die within a few days from what I've seen (not an issue in my breed). Some breeders use rapid test kits to see which kittens will be affected, others just remove all kittens for 24 hours.
> 
> unless they have a breeding experienced vet it won't do much good, most vets know little about newborns which is why a good breeder network is crucial, and if it is NI caught too late there's even less point in a vet.





spotty cats said:


> 3 weeks is quite an error on due dates, especially when it was critical the birth be monitored.
> 
> Generally the kittens die within a few days from what I've seen (not an issue in my breed). Some breeders use rapid test kits to see which kittens will be affected, others just remove all kittens for 24 hours.
> 
> unless they have a breeding experienced vet it won't do much good, most vets know little about newborns which is why a good breeder network is crucial, and if it is NI caught too late there's even less point in a vet.





spotty cats said:


> 3 weeks is quite an error on due dates, especially when it was critical the birth be monitored.
> 
> Generally the kittens die within a few days from what I've seen (not an issue in my breed). Some breeders use rapid test kits to see which kittens will be affected, others just remove all kittens for 24 hours.
> 
> unless they have a breeding experienced vet it won't do much good, most vets know little about newborns which is why a good breeder network is crucial, and if it is NI caught too late there's even less point in a vet.


Thank you spotty cat
My cat was in season & 3 weeks later had a couple of days where she allowed the male mate her again what we thought was another season so thought she wasnt pregnant from 1st mating but she must have been I'm totally gutted by the whole thing so thank you for your help


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

SusieRainbow said:


> Andrea, you really need to answer any questions you've been asked for us to give you the help you need.
> Have you removed the live kittens from mum to bottle feed for 24 hours?
> Have they been seen by a vet?
> When were they born?
> You say you thought mum had 3 weeks to go but you're sure the kittens aren't premature- how?


Yes 2 kittens removed when got home & feed for 24 hrs
They were born boxing day
My cat was in season & 3 weeks later had a couple of days where she allowed the male mate her again what we thought was another season so thought she wasnt pregnant from 1st mating but she must have been


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

andrea pattison said:


> Yes 2 kittens removed when got home & feed for 24 hrs
> They were born boxing day
> My cat was in season & 3 weeks later had a couple of days where she allowed the male mate her again what we thought was another season so thought she wasnt pregnant from 1st mating but she must have been


I'm really sorry this has happened to you and your cat, are you planning on getting her spayed now? Was it her frst litter?


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

SusieRainbow said:


> I'm really sorry this has happened to you and your cat, are you planning on getting her spayed now? Was it her frst litter?


You didnt answer my original question about hyperthermia & blood compatibility??


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

andrea pattison said:


> You didnt answer my original question about hyperthermia & blood compatibility??


I'm afraid I don't know the answers, I'm not a breeder. I thought @spotty cats did though? Hopefully you will get more replies in the morning.
Do you have a breeding mentor,are your cats on the active register??


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't think you'll ever know for certain but what I will say is that it is highly unlikely to be BGI.

In your litter's case (and I'm sorry to be graphic), it is very unlikely that sufficient time, ie overnight, elapsed after birth for them to feed, the process of haemolysis to take place and for the kittens to die. Kittens suffering BGI rarely, if ever, die suddenly but will fade over 36-48 hours. There are almost always clear visible symptoms but in these circumstances, without wanting to be too graphic, it's probably impossible to know.

As a cause of death in neonatal kittens, BGI is too common an assumption by breeders even when there isn't a single 'symptom' of BGI to be seen. It is far more likely that the queen didn't tend quite quickly enough to the kittens in the minutes after their birth, only doing the crucial things too late. Or the kittens were stillborn.

Hypothermia is unlikely unless your home was particularly cold and she had left the kittens alone for extended periods of time.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

gskinner123 said:


> I don't think you'll ever know for certain but what I will say is that it is highly unlikely to be BGI.
> 
> In your litter's case (and I'm sorry to be graphic), it is very unlikely that sufficient time, ie overnight, elapsed after birth for them to feed, the process of haemolysis to take place and for the kittens to die. Kittens suffering BGI rarely, if ever, die suddenly but will fade over 36-48 hours. There are almost always clear visible symptoms but in these circumstances, without wanting to be too graphic, it's probably impossible to know.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, the little one was totally cleaned up but the other 3 were not cleaned up properly, but all placentas were gone, she gave birth on the bed which was quite a mess so they wouldve been very wet & cold. Is it normal to have so many still born. It is so upsetting & I cant stop thinking about it & beating myself up over it so thank you for taking the time to reply


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> If kittens aren't cared for by their mother hours. Blood group problems take several days and kittens can seem OK at first.


Thank you for your reply, do you mean if mum hadn't kept them warm.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> However I'm guessing these are the bsh delivered by section. There are many more ways to lose kittens.


Yes they are bsh but not delivered by section.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

andrea pattison said:


> Thank you so much, the little one was totally cleaned up but the other 3 were not cleaned up properly, but all placentas were gone, she gave birth on the bed which was quite a mess so they wouldve been very wet & cold. Is it normal to have so many still born. It is so upsetting & I cant stop thinking about it & beating myself up over it so thank you for taking the time to reply


This sounds to me as if their mother didn't bother with them for some reason and made no effort to dry or warm them after their birth. It is possible that they were stillborn if there was an infection.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

lymorelynn said:


> This sounds to me as if their mother didn't bother with them for some reason and made no effort to dry or warm them after their birth. It is possible that they were stillborn if there was an infection.


Thanks for your response her last litter she gave birth very quickly to 5 kittens & were it happened so quick it seemed to much for her & the last 3 she did not clean up properly or eat all the placentas but luckily I was there last time I took all 5 for 1st 24hrs & when I put them back she was an excellent mum so sad with this litter


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

I really hope you will get your cat spayed after this, she should not have any more kittens. I'm unclear why you thought it was OK to mate her with an incompatible blood group stud that you were aware of, allowed her to mate again so had no idea when the kittens were due and left her alone over night to give birth alone with no help. She also showed poor mothering skills with her last litter and if you hadn't been there at the time would most likely have lost that litter too.
I know you're gutted, I would be too, but I really think you shoudn't be breeding cats wthout a lot more thought and knowledge.
Sorry if you fnd this harsh but the whole sad story has upset me and I suspect several other members, as well as yourself.
Get your cat spayed and enjoy her as a pet. Keep her and your stud completely seperate and her indoors until such time, she can get pregnant agan within a few weeks.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

How very sad that you feel the need to say such a nasty, sickening & judgemental statement to somebody who you clearly know is devastated, you have not contributed anything useful to the discussion and are stating the obvious, coming from a staff member I find this extremely worrying. I did not ask for your opinion I just asked a question which may help me with my grieving for these kittens you do not know me so I will forget your cruel comments & say thank you to the people who have helped me none of us are perfect & we have to live with our mistakes for the rest of our life thank you very much for adding to my pain and being so unkind


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

andrea pattison said:


> How very sad that you feel the need to say such a nasty, sickening & judgemental statement to somebody who you clearly know is devastated, you have not contributed anything useful to the discussion and are stating the obvious, coming from a staff member I find this extremely worrying. I did not ask for your opinion I just asked a question which may help me with my grieving for these kittens you do not know me so I will forget your cruel comments & say thank you to the people who have helped me none of us are perfect & we have to live with our mistakes for the rest of our life thank you very much for adding to my pain and being so unkind


We're primarily concerned with the animal's welfare here.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

andrea pattison said:


> How very sad that you feel the need to say such a nasty, sickening & judgemental statement to somebody who you clearly know is devastated, you have not contributed anything useful to the discussion and are stating the obvious, coming from a staff member I find this extremely worrying. I did not ask for your opinion I just asked a question which may help me with my grieving for these kittens you do not know me so I will forget your cruel comments & say thank you to the people who have helped me none of us are perfect & we have to live with our mistakes for the rest of our life thank you very much for adding to my pain and being so unkind


I was not cruel or unkind. 
If I've made you stop and think before attempting to breed again and to learn from this my work is done.
As @lorilu says ,our concern is with the animal , but I'm sorry for your pain.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

lorilu said:


> We're primarily concerned with the animal's welfare here.





SusieRainbow said:


> I was not cruel or unkind.
> If I've made you stop and think before attempting to breed again and to learn from this my work is done.
> As @lorilu says ,our concern is with the animal , but I'm sorry for your pain.


As I said you dont know me so please stop putting unnecessary comments & try & hide behind concern with animal that does not make the nasty comments ok what you have said will not change my good intentions


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

@SusieRainbow did not say anything nasty.
FWIW I agree whole heartedly after reading this thread. I know it will be hard to accept (especially at the moment) but the only person responsible is yourself...
You knew the cats had incompatible blood groups - yet you mated them any way and then left her to give birth alone.

I'm sorry that the kittens died...I really am, but why not find a stud with a compatible blood group to save the heartache and the stress it must put on your queen?

Surely it is your cats best interest that matters more to you than what a random stranger on the internet says?
Maybe look at getting a good, ethical experienced mentor before you breed more kittens?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

andrea pattison said:


> Thanks for your response her last litter she gave birth very quickly to 5 kittens & were it happened so quick it seemed to much for her & the last 3 she did not clean up properly or eat all the placentas but luckily I was there last time I took all 5 for 1st 24hrs & when I put them back she was an excellent mum so sad with this litter


You really need to be aware of your mating dates and not leave a queen alone close to giving birth. If she was overwhelmed with her first litter, then it's likely that the same thing happened again.
Breeding involves a great deal of heartache and isn't just putting a stud and queen together especially if there are blood incompatibility issues too.
You should have a mentor to talk through these things with and I would suggest you think carefully before continuing to breed with the cats you have.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

lorilu said:


> We're primarily concerned with the animal's welfare here.


Me asking those questions & receiving a good approprate reply will help with the animals welfare because it will help educate people I thought that was the reason


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

lymorelynn said:


> You really need to be aware of your mating dates and not leave a queen alone close to giving birth. If she was overwhelmed with her first litter, then it's likely that the same thing happened again.
> Breeding involves a great deal of heartache and isn't just putting a stud and queen together especially if there are blood incompatibility issues too.
> You should have a mentor to talk through these things with and I would suggest you think carefully before continuing to breed with the cats you have.


This was her 4th litter & seasons were confused because of male mating her 3weeks later so thought she couldn't be pregnant from 1st mating which if was the case I would never have left her these two cats are house cats they live together they are well looked after & loved


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

StormyThai said:


> @SusieRainbow did not say anything nasty.
> FWIW I agree whole heartedly after reading this thread. I know it will be hard to accept (especially at the moment) but the only person responsible is yourself...
> You knew the cats had incompatible blood groups - yet you mated them any way and then left her to give birth alone.
> 
> ...


But as I've found out these kittens did not die because of the blood compatibility so I have learnt something which is good and now I know I can make an informed decision about her


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

andrea pattison said:


> This was her 4th litter & seasons were confused because of male mating her 3weeks later so thought she couldn't be pregnant from 1st mating which if was the case I would never have left her these two cats are house cats they live together they are well looked after & loved


As this was her fourth litter I would advise that you retire her and have her spayed. At least have her checked over for any signs that the an infection was the cause of the loss of her kittens. 
I think you have been given some helpful advice overall and will close this thread shortly.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2021)

andrea pattison said:


> But as I've found out these kittens did not die because of the blood compatibility so I have learnt something which is good and now I know I can make an informed decision about her





lymorelynn said:


> As this was her fourth litter I would advise that you retire her and have her spayed. At least have her checked over for any signs that the an infection was the cause of the loss of her kittens.
> I think you have been given some helpful advice overall and will close this thread shortly.


Yes please do close this thread & I would appreciate it all being deleted. As I said i am thankful to the people who actual answered my actual question as it has made me aware that not the blood bur the mum & now I can make a decision.


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