# Does a breeder have to give you the pedigree name off both the parents



## Guest (Aug 27, 2012)

I recently bought a red fox labrador puppy , the person we bought him off sold the puppies as pets as it was an accidental mating between her two dogs she said both parents were kennel club registered and a copy off the parents pedigrees would be given , We recieved a copy off mum and dads pedigree but she had blocked out the fathers pedigree name and registration number . can she do this we just want to know what his name is we know the bloodlines he comes from and both parents have lots of FT CH in them (drakehead) Any help appreciated or is there a way off me tracing his pedigree name


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## SharonM (Mar 2, 2010)

Have you asked the breeder for his name? Tell her it's just for your own records, maybe it was an accidental mating between mother/son, father/daughter and she was too embarrassed to say so.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Are the pups KC registered? if so - the parents names should be on the registration papers.

Accidental mating or not - if both parents are KC registered, then I would expect to know their details and would be more than a little concerned if this information wasn't provided - as at the moment, I can only think of negative reasons why this would happen  

The pup is yellow with fox red shading - a shade that is often quite difficult to produce - and they get it on an accidental mating 

Have both parents had the basic health tests such as hipscores and current eye certificates with ideally one parent PRA clear.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

SharonM said:


> Have you asked the breeder for his name? Tell her it's just for your own records, maybe it was an accidental mating between mother/son, father/daughter and she was too embarrassed to say so.


I did ask her for the fathers name but she refused to give it point blank and said she didnt want anyone registering the puppies , i have his date of birth his mothers name and fathers name and then a further four generations off dogs names , would the kennel club give me his name if i supply copies of fathers pedigree and the address i got him from thanks for your reply


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

lisa14061975 said:


> I did ask her for the fathers name but she refused to give it point blank and said she didnt want anyone registering the puppies , i have his date of birth his mothers name and fathers name and then a further four generations off dogs names , would the kennel club give me his name if i supply copies of fathers pedigree and the address i got him from thanks for your reply


No - the kennel club won't give you any information under the Data Protection act - although it is unlikely even with his date of birth and parents names would tell the KC who the dog was - most litters will have more than one pup; sometimes, if two dogs produce well together, a breeder might repeat the mating.

I cannot think of a single valid good reason why this would happen - it cant be the dogs age, as they don't have the same age limits on litter registrations as bitches do, or on the number of pups they can produce.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

swarthy said:


> Are the pups KC registered? if so - the parents names should be on the registration papers.
> 
> Accidental mating or not - if both parents are KC registered, then I would expect to know their details and would be more than a little concerned if this information wasn't provided - as at the moment, I can only think of negative reasons why this would happen
> 
> ...


Hi no the pups werent sold kc registered she just put on the advert a copy off both parents pedigrees who are kennel club registered would be given , i assumed that i would get the parents pedigree names on there papers , she said both mum and dad are pets only and the pups are been sold at pet price , only once i was home did i realise that his was missing and it just had were she had removed his kc no and ped name and she inserted his pet name . 
She owned both parents and i believe they are classed as yellow labs it just that they are a fox red colour and i know it not a colour you see often so can only assume it difficult to produce .
When i asked her regarding tests she said that because they were her two pet dogs that had accidental mating she had no tests done on the parents as it wasnt meant to happen i have looked at the parents of the parents to see what hips and eye scores they obtained , she did say that she had spoke to her vet and asked her vet and apparently vet said that her dogs were likely to have good scores and clear eyes as there parents were , I know this is rubbish what the vet apparently said as i have always had gsd and i know just because parents have good hips doesnt mean the off spring will have good hips and that goes for the eye tests just because parents were clear doesnt mean her dogs were clear only the test will verify things . 
Is there anything i can do to make her release the fathers pedigree name eg contacting kennel club etc , I happy to supply information from the copies off the pedigrees i have . I have been trying to trace the breeder off the dad off our puppy by putting breeder name in and dads mums name in ,(AIRMYN DREAM) the father of my pup dad is called (GILLACRE AUSTIN) i put a search in on internet trying to see if i could find out how many times they have been bred together


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

lisa14061975 said:


> Hi no the pups werent sold kc registered she just put on the advert a copy off both parents pedigrees who are kennel club registered would be given , i assumed that i would get the parents pedigree names on there papers , she said both mum and dad are pets only and the pups are been sold at pet price , only once i was home did i realise that his was missing and it just had were she had removed his kc no and ped name and she inserted his pet name .
> She owned both parents and i believe they are classed as yellow labs it just that they are a fox red colour and i know it not a colour you see often so can only assume it difficult to produce .
> When i asked her regarding tests she said that because they were her two pet dogs that had accidental mating she had no tests done on the parents as it wasnt meant to happen i have looked at the parents of the parents to see what hips and eye scores they obtained , she did say that she had spoke to her vet and asked her vet and apparently vet said that her dogs were likely to have good scores and clear eyes as there parents were , I know this is rubbish what the vet apparently said as i have always had gsd and i know just because parents have good hips doesnt mean the off spring will have good hips and that goes for the eye tests just because parents were clear doesnt mean her dogs were clear only the test will verify things .
> Is there anything i can do to make her release the fathers pedigree name eg contacting kennel club etc , I happy to supply information from the copies off the pedigrees i have . I have been trying to trace the breeder off the dad off our puppy by putting breeder name in and dads mums name in ,(AIRMYN DREAM) the father of my pup dad is called (GILLACRE AUSTIN) i put a search in on internet trying to see if i could find out how many times they have been bred together


I am not at my main machine at the moment - so MIGHT be able to find out a bit more info for you at the weekend - I can tell you that dad's mum had 5 litters and dad sired 34 litters.

Unfortunately, the breeder is wrong in what she says about it naturally following through that both dogs would have good hipscoes - lowscoring parents significantly reduce risk of the pups developing problems - but the only way to know for sure is to health-test the parents

Mild to Moderately severe hip dysplasia can be asymptomatic - I have a girl here with both parents under 10 - she is nearly three times the breed average - but you wouldn't know - I showed her and she lives as normal a life as my other dogs, but I wouldn't dream of breeding her - even though the knowledge and support I had (not to mention the waiting list) meant there were steps I could take to further minimise risks - but it was something I wasn't prepared to do.

I can't knock her for having an accident - and really - you can't always knock people for missing the accident - it could just as easily happen to me god forbid.

If I suspected it - it would be mis-mate all the way unless everything was bang smack in order - if I didn't know about it until it was too late - I would like to think I would be honest to the n'th degree of why I wouldn't have done the mated / mated one particular dog etc - but I certainly wouldn't hide either of the parents names - why would I want to?

But then (at the moment) - none of my boys and girls are directly related - that might change one day - but not quite yet.

If you have enough posts, feel free to send me a message towards the end of the week / weekend to remind me and I will see if I can help


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## love our big babies (Jan 3, 2012)

Swarthy you mentioned that only having the pedigree names and puppies date of birth OP can't register her pup. What if she had the Registration numbers of both Dam and Sire? Could she register then?


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

I think only the breeder can KC register the puppies.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

I don't see what the problem is, you've been given everything you were told you would be given


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Yes..only the breeder can register the puppies.

If the pup was sold as pedigree then I would expect to see a full 5 generation pedigree. If sold as pet and unpapered then you havent a leg to stand on. You would be lucky to have some of the history.

Tbh if you already have the pup and didnt check paperwork...dont intend to breed (assuming that you dont here) then I cant really see too much of a problem. The name shouldnt have been blacked out but its too late now. Clearly the breeder is hiding something but checking the pups breeding now is a little too late imo.

If the dogs breeding lines and background is very important to a puppy buyer...I would think KC registered pups a must. Not that KC Reg is guarantee of a quality pup but at least you can see the pups breeding in full for the last 5 gens and can check required health test results on the KC website if appropriate.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

swarthy said:


> I am not at my main machine at the moment - so MIGHT be able to find out a bit more info for you at the weekend - I can tell you that dad's mum had 5 litters and dad sired 34 litters.
> 
> Unfortunately, the breeder is wrong in what she says about it naturally following through that both dogs would have good hipscoes - lowscoring parents significantly reduce risk of the pups developing problems - but the only way to know for sure is to health-test the parents
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post it was very helpful and also thank you so much with your offer to help try find some more info over the weekend i would greatly appreciate it and i will send you a message if i have enough posts thanks again


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

hawksport said:


> I don't see what the problem is, you've been given everything you were told you would be given


I wasnt i didnt recieve the pedigree name off the father off my pup which should off been on the copy of the pedigree she gave me his pet name means nothing she said copy off parents pedigree not a copy of pedigree with fathers name of pup missing if she had said that i would off walked away and gone elsewere


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2012)

chichi said:


> Yes..only the breeder can register the puppies.
> 
> If the pup was sold as pedigree then I would expect to see a full 5 generation pedigree. If sold as pet and unpapered then you havent a leg to stand on. You would be lucky to have some of the history.
> 
> ...


Hi thanks for post , we definately are not interested in breeding we wouldnt know were to start to do it properly going into the bloodlines , the two 5 generation pedigrees we got have all the breeding lines there it just some reason she not giving fathers name dont know why dont think her reason off she doesnt want anyone to register pups (as she said) is valid reason , i should off looked further into it and took more notice off the fathers pedigree as well as mothers , My only excuse is had already managed to find myself at a puppy farm 4 hrs earlier viewing a litter off puppies which i walked well away from and i certainly cant off been thinking straight for me to off missed something like that , Apparently we couldnt register our puppy anyway with the KC so dont know why she so intent on hiding the fathers pedigree name i now wonder if there something to hide doesnt change the fact we love him to bits


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

lisa14061975 said:


> I wasnt i didnt recieve the pedigree name off the father off my pup which should off been on the copy of the pedigree she gave me his pet name means nothing she said copy off parents pedigree not a copy of pedigree with fathers name of pup missing if she had said that i would off walked away and gone elsewere


To me this seems you want the sire and dams names in the hopes of registering your pup so you can, well i'll hold my tongue on that one.

You have a pet lab with details of mum and dad. As a pet and unreg one at that the CH etc in the pedigree are irrelevant imo as the dog was and sold as PET. she wont give you the details most likely as you simply dont need them.


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## Dober (Jan 2, 2012)

Is she a proper, registered breeder or just someone with a couple of un-neutered pet Labradors which accidently bred?

Some of the reasons I could think of for blanking out the dogs names would be:

-He's endorsed and under a no-breeding contract with his original breeder
-He's on a co-ownership and his other owner doesn't know
-He's too closely related to the female
-He's too young to be ethically bred
-He's got _really_ bad health test results

Either way not looking like good news. If the breeder is a KC assured breeder, I would look to report them to the kennel club as I believe their rules/regulations state that all their puppies should be kennel club registered and given with a full 5 gen pedigree. Or you could contact your local breed club and see if she's a member/known to them.

Irrelevant, but I think if you dont have the skills to keep two entire dogs from having accidental litters, you don't have the skills to own two entire dogs. I dont think accidental litters 'just happen and could happen to anyone'. If someone was irresponcible enough to let it happen, they should opt for missmate or emergency spay, IMO.

Aside from that, theres not really a whole lot you could do if the puppy was 'sold as seen'. If she offered something you didnt get, perhaps contact trading standards or the citizen's advice with the original advert and seek their advice? Not really sure anything would come of it, after all I suppose you want to keep the puppy you dont want your money back in exchange for giving the puppy back, right?


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## bluegirl (May 7, 2012)

From what you say is it a mistake mating and you have seen mother and father, and you willingly accepted the resulting pup from such a mating. I think that should be all the info you require because having more isn't going to help you any further, you can't register the pup and as long as your pup is healthy nothing else matters. I think she has been honest with you and she is just trying to safeguard herself and the pups she sold from being bred from when it would not be a good idea. Hence the lack of written information on the pups breeding. If I normally had good lines and had a reputation to maintain I think I would do everything in my power to prevent my pups being bred from especially when they were specifically sold as pets only. You may tell her you only want it for information but there are lots of people out there who will lie through their teeth just to get want they want so if she says no once, she has to say no for the whole litter whatever the reason for wanting the full pedigree. (not saying for one minute you intend to breed just pointing a potential problem as far as the breeder may see things).


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

bluegirl said:


> From what you say is it a mistake mating and you have seen mother and father, and you willingly accepted the resulting pup from such a mating. I think that should be all the info you require because having more isn't going to help you any further, you can't register the pup and as long as your pup is healthy nothing else matters. I think she has been honest with you and she is just trying to safeguard herself and the pups she sold from being bred from when it would not be a good idea. Hence the lack of written information on the pups breeding. If I normally had good lines and had a reputation to maintain I think I would do everything in my power to prevent my pups being bred from especially when they were specifically sold as pets only. You may tell her you only want it for information but there are lots of people out there who will lie through their teeth just to get want they want so if she says no once, she has to say no for the whole litter whatever the reason for wanting the full pedigree. (not saying for one minute you intend to breed just pointing a potential problem as far as the breeder may see things).


I personally think the breeder is hiding something. .....might be wrong of course but it all smells a bit fishy to me. If I had to guess Id say that perhaps breeding is too close or the Sire should not have been used for breeding for one reason or another. Breeders protecting their lines usually register and endorse pups...not blanking out names.....very suspect.


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Starlite said:


> To me this seems you want the sire and dams names in the hopes of registering your pup so you can, well i'll hold my tongue on that one.
> 
> You have a pet lab with details of mum and dad. As a pet and unreg one at that the CH etc in the pedigree are irrelevant imo as the dog was and sold as PET. she wont give you the details most likely as you simply dont need them.


Why would you say that? yes - the OP bought the pup as a pet and willingy accepted that it was an accidental mating - and yes, they happen, and sometimes they genuinely do go un-noticed.

If the OP hadn't had an ancestry with the pups because it was unregistered - there probably wouldn't have been any question to ask.

But, there is surely something very strange about issuing a pedigree and blanking out parent's name - what purpose doess it serve to do that?

It's a known fact that some breeders pull the wool over their puppy buyers eyes - yes - they should do the research before getting the pup - and we know this happens time and again and unless there is some drastic changes with regards to dog breeding, I don't think anything is going to change.

If I had pups that couldn't be registered for whatever reason (I hope it never happens) - but I would explan WHY I am not doing it - and part of that would / would not be issuing the puppy buyer with a 5 generation ancestry (it's not a pedigree if the dog isn't registered even if the dog is clearly purely bred).

In this situation, you would surely go one of two ways - provide no paperwork that gives any indication of the dogs ancestry or issue them with an ancestry and explain why the dogs can't be registered.

But - issue a pedigree and blank out a parents name - I just cannot get my head around it - all I can think when faced with such a scenario is strongly negative reasons.


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## chaka (Feb 19, 2012)

I can't offer any advice, hopefully Swarthy will be able to find out more, if you can trace the breeder of the sire that should give you some answers. I would say the breeder of the pups is trying to hide something, more than likely an endorsement on the sire of the pups.

I noticed in your earlier post OP that you say you went to see this pups 4 hours after viewing a litter at a puppy farm. Too late now and luckily no harm done it would seem but can I ask everyone who is viewing pups not to go from one litter to another, the risk of carrying infection would be high.


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## Starlite (Sep 9, 2009)

swarthy said:


> Why would you say that? yes - the OP bought the pup as a pet and willingy accepted that it was an accidental mating - and yes, they happen, and sometimes they genuinely do go un-noticed.
> 
> If the OP hadn't had an ancestry with the pups because it was unregistered - there probably wouldn't have been any question to ask.
> 
> ...


i just dont see the issue, the dog was sold and bought as a pet, other than satisfying curiousity what is the need for the sires name and reg number?
what purpose will it serve having the sire's name, what will it actually change?
its a funny way of doing things but each to their own


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

chaka said:


> I noticed in your earlier post OP that you say you went to see this pups 4 hours after viewing a litter at a puppy farm. Too late now and luckily no harm done it would seem but can I ask everyone who is viewing pups not to go from one litter to another, the risk of carrying infection would be high.


Echo this. That was very foolish and if I were the breeder, I'd be *furious*.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

The breeder may have a contract,the mating accidental or not may be in breach of that contract. As a compromise she may have been asked not to name the father. It does happen. I know of a case very close to home. Purely for good will the dams breeder/kennel is omitted. The pups are not KC registered. There is nothing legally binding and the good will is maintained in this case..


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## gayle38 (Jul 16, 2012)

If the puppy is NOT KC reg then you should not receive any papers.

You see these breeders selling puppies as not KC reg and then say comes with pedigree papers ehh!:mad2:


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

If i was that breeder you had gone to 4 hours after viewing the pups i would have been furious as well considering it was Bentley Hall Farm which as we know from the other thread is rife with parvo.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Oh dear...I missed that before. I cannot believe that somebody would visit a puppy farm and then gone onto a breeders house where I am guessing the pups werent fully vaccinated.....I guess they didnt realise the dangers. Worrying.


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Well the op walked away from the puppy farm so fair play for that but it sounds as if she walked into another slightly iffy situation.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2012)

Starlite said:


> To me this seems you want the sire and dams names in the hopes of registering your pup so you can, well i'll hold my tongue on that one.
> 
> You have a pet lab with details of mum and dad. As a pet and unreg one at that the CH etc in the pedigree are irrelevant imo as the dog was and sold as PET. she wont give you the details most likely as you simply dont need them.


No i dont need fathers name to register as i cant register puppy anyway but it would be nice to know what his name is so i have all names and if anyone was ever to ask who had one i could tell them all i can tell them is year off his birth (fathers) and what his parents called as already stated on a previous reply wouldnt know the first thing bout breeding labradors as know very little about lab bloodlines having had GSD for 25 yr they are all i know , We only got a labrador as it was what my fiance wanted and tbh dont have the space even if i was interested in breeding him , dont want to register him even if we could


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2012)

Bjt said:


> Well the op walked away from the puppy farm so fair play for that but it sounds as if she walked into another slightly iffy situation.


I think i possibly did walk into another iffy situation there a reason why she not given males name and i am wondering if when she bought the father it was contracted that she wasnt to allow him to sire pups unless all relevevant test eyes hips etc were carried out first , 
he is my first ever lab puppy have always had shepherds and we have one as well as the shepherd


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2012)

chichi said:


> Oh dear...I missed that before. I cannot believe that somebody would visit a puppy farm and then gone onto a breeders house where I am guessing the pups werent fully vaccinated.....I guess they didnt realise the dangers. Worrying.


I spoke to the woman who had the pups were we got ours from and told her had been to puppy farm only 4 hr earlier and she requested i washed in bath , hair change of clothes and footwear dont know if that would off made a difference but she knew about it i did everything she said so the breeder of my pup was happy for me to go there it not like she didnt know


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2012)

Bjt said:


> If i was that breeder you had gone to 4 hours after viewing the pups i would have been furious as well considering it was Bentley Hall Farm which as we know from the other thread is rife with parvo.


She knew about it and she also knew bout bentley hall farm so have to say that she willingly allowed me there knowing what she knew


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

lisa14061975 said:


> She knew about it and she also knew bout bentley hall farm so have to say that she willingly allowed me there knowing what she knew


mmm... well, it all sounds suspicious to me. Accidents happen, but from what you have said, I'd suspect a byb and wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't so much of an 'accident'. 
Still unsure why she has blocked the sire's name though. Even if he was endorsed it wouldn't make a difference as the pups are not kc registered. Unless, she is known by reputable breeders and is trying to cover up her byb practices?

If the pup is fox red, it is highly likely he is from working lines. If you pm me the pedigree and where you bought her I'll see if I can shed some light on it.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

I don't know if anyone else has suggested this but could it be that the pedigree she has given you as being the sire's is not the pedigree of the sire of the pup. She doesn't want you to know the sire's name so you can't research him and discover it is not the correct sire for the pup?


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Freyja said:


> I don't know if anyone else has suggested this but could it be that the pedigree she has given you as being the sire's is not the pedigree of the sire of the pup. She doesn't want you to know the sire's name so you can't research him and discover it is not the correct sire for the pup?


Didn't suggest it but it did cross my mind.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2012)

Freyja said:


> I don't know if anyone else has suggested this but could it be that the pedigree she has given you as being the sire's is not the pedigree of the sire of the pup. She doesn't want you to know the sire's name so you can't research him and discover it is not the correct sire for the pup?


Hi thanks for reply dnt think anyone has suggested that and thinking about it it is possible that is the case and i would find out eventually if i had looked the sire up so you could be right bout wat you said apologises for nt replying sooner but our puppy has colitis and is a little under the weather but is on antibiotics


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2012)

rocco33 said:


> Didn't suggest it but it did cross my mind.


yes sorry didnt read throughly but have now


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2012)

oh forgot to say that our puppy floyd does have alot of ft ch champs in his pedigree so as you said with the fox red colour he from the working lines there a couple off IR FT CH on our puppies dads ped and drakehead in our puppy pedigree on both side too


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## SpicyBulldog (Jun 30, 2012)

That is rather odd. At least you have the pedigree. Did they give you any reason why?
*
A breeder doesn't have to give you anything.* But I wouldn't see a good reason why they wouldn't want to provide you the sire's name.



SharonM said:


> Have you asked the breeder for his name? Tell her it's just for your own records, maybe it was an accidental mating between mother/son, father/daughter and she was too embarrassed to say so.


If that were the case the OP would know considering the breeder provided them a pedigree. It'd show if they were father/daughter, son/mother or of any other relation.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

gayle38 said:


> If the puppy is NOT KC reg then you should not receive any papers.
> 
> You see these breeders selling puppies as not KC reg and then say comes with pedigree papers ehh!:mad2:


I think you are confusing KC registration certificate with a pedigree. You can have the latter without the former........


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2012)

SpicyBulldog said:


> That is rather odd. At least you have the pedigree. Did they give you any reason why?
> *
> A breeder doesn't have to give you anything.* But I wouldn't see a good reason why they wouldn't want to provide you the sire's name.
> 
> If that were the case the OP would know considering the breeder provided them a pedigree. It'd show if they were father/daughter, son/mother or of any other relation.


Yes did ask but she just said she didnt want anyone to register the pups with KC but i cant do that anyway as it has to be breeder that registers pups (someone on here said ) all i want the fathers name for is so i can write out my pups pedigree it wont be legal document as wont be from KC but at least we have his pedigree lines written down on paper it just wnt have a pedigree name for my pup or a reg number but we bought him as pet and that is all he is , as soon as he old enough we will be getting him neutered , We have had a few people ask about his parents there a cpl of lab owners that have male dogs and they have asked what his parents were called can only tell them what his mum is called , i know our pups parents came from different breeders dad was born dec2006 and mum was born july2008


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2012)

cinammontoast said:


> Echo this. That was very foolish and if I were the breeder, I'd be *furious*.


echo what i already put on another reply breeder KNEW were i had been only 4 hrs earlier and i did everything she requested i did before i went up there , even if i hadnt been to a puppy farm i could off took parvo up to the breeders with me as there are unvaccinated dogs wondering on parks and the streets (some owners dont think about the welfare of there dogs around here) so i could still off carried the virus to the breeder from when i walk my german shepherd bitch i could off bought the virus back to my own home and bought a puppy home and it could off contracted parvo as it was still an unvaccinated puppy . YES i agree there would off been more significant risk after the puppy farm but i had the decency to warn the breeder (so perhaps i not as irresponsible as you think ) but it also makes the breeder irresponsible doesnt it . I do get what your saying but suggesting i didnt even warn or mention it to the breeder is wrong as she already knew were i had been and did know about the BHF (puppy farm)


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2012)

Dober said:


> Is she a proper, registered breeder or just someone with a couple of un-neutered pet Labradors which accidently bred?
> 
> Some of the reasons I could think of for blanking out the dogs names would be:
> 
> ...


Hi thanks for post most definately wouldnt part with our puppy he is a little darling and we loved him the moment we got him home if i never find his dads pedigree name it makes no difference to how much we love him just wanted the name so that i have it and if anyone ever asks about him we can tell them about his mum and dad , he will not be getting bred from as we didnt get him for that and as soon as he 6mth old he will be getting neutered my Gsd is just over 2yr old and she is spayed i wouldnt off wanted any mishaps with her we are just pet owners so dont think having unneutered dogs together beneficial to us or the dogs . If we were interested in breeding it would be different

Unfortunately the breeder isnt kennel club registered and she just said that her dogs were just pets but i dnt understand why if they just pets would she not have one or both dogs neutered it obvious to probably everyone that the dogs would mate , she did say that they have never had pups before and it was first litter ever and apparently the last litter think she still has the last bitch puppy advertised from were we got the advert . We would off paid her extra if she would off been willing to give the fathers name i dnt think we will ever find his name out but it doesnt change how we feel bout our wee lad he is so cute and my gsd loves him to bits even mummies him . I do think there is a reason why she adamant bout not providing fathers name thou . Your post was very helpful


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2012)

chichi said:


> I personally think the breeder is hiding something. .....might be wrong of course but it all smells a bit fishy to me. If I had to guess Id say that perhaps breeding is too close or the Sire should not have been used for breeding for one reason or another. Breeders protecting their lines usually register and endorse pups...not blanking out names.....very suspect.


Hi thanks for post i think i will see if any names come up in the pedigrees i have , to see if there is same names as each other i can understand her not wanting to sell the pups so they can be bred from and like you said she could put endorsements on ,


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2012)

bluegirl said:


> From what you say is it a mistake mating and you have seen mother and father, and you willingly accepted the resulting pup from such a mating. I think that should be all the info you require because having more isn't going to help you any further, you can't register the pup and as long as your pup is healthy nothing else matters. I think she has been honest with you and she is just trying to safeguard herself and the pups she sold from being bred from when it would not be a good idea. Hence the lack of written information on the pups breeding. If I normally had good lines and had a reputation to maintain I think I would do everything in my power to prevent my pups being bred from especially when they were specifically sold as pets only. You may tell her you only want it for information but there are lots of people out there who will lie through their teeth just to get want they want so if she says no once, she has to say no for the whole litter whatever the reason for wanting the full pedigree. (not saying for one minute you intend to breed just pointing a potential problem as far as the breeder may see things).


I can totally understand if that why the breeder did it as like you say not everyone will be honest about why and what they want from the pup and just to confirm would def not want to breed and use him as a stud dog , I do believe her (the breeder) when she says they were pet dogs but dnt believe reason behind not giving fathers name , we did get 4 wk free insurance with petplan but the pups were not raised on puppy food they were raised on adult food (once we got our little fella home we started the change over to the puppy food


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2012)

Bjt said:


> If i was that breeder you had gone to 4 hours after viewing the pups i would have been furious as well considering it was Bentley Hall Farm which as we know from the other thread is rife with parvo.


yes and i have been posting on that and had contact back from cowboy traders by phone and they have all my details too and have posted about the breeder knowing were i had been etc


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## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

Well done lisa14061975 for helping to try and get that puppy farm shut down.I have been watching the other thread.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2012)

Bjt said:


> Well done lisa14061975 for helping to try and get that puppy farm shut down.I have been watching the other thread.


Thanks alot i can only do what i can do to help i just hope it makes the difference and with everyone else that has been helping since my posts and before my posts there is hope for all the dogs and puppies . I hope it does get shut down sooner the better it is horrible the way the bitches and dogs are treated could never do anything like that to either my dogs and the puppies are a born with a death sentence it was hard to not buy the puppy at the puppy farm as i wanted to help get her away but i new i would just be lining there pockets and making it profitable for them to carry on doing it , cant wait for cowboy traders to turn up at there doorstep


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Hi - I am back in the land of "insanity" now - have got your message - need to catch up with the thread and then will see what I can find out for you - day job to do atm - but will get back to you ASAP


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2012)

swarthy said:


> Hi - I am back in the land of "insanity" now - have got your message - need to catch up with the thread and then will see what I can find out for you - day job to do atm - but will get back to you ASAP


Thanks alot swarthy and feel free to message me if you need any further info about our puppy to help with your inquiries thanks again


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## Delta2012 (Feb 20, 2013)

swarthy said:


> Hi - I am back in the land of "insanity" now - have got your message - need to catch up with the thread and then will see what I can find out for you - day job to do atm - but will get back to you ASAP


Hi Swarthy , i was on here as lisa14061975 and this my new profile on here , you posted a few replies on my post and i just wanted to update you and everyone else who also posted as this so called accidental mating (we got our gorgeous boy floyd from (fox red labrador) has accidentally happened again , and i wouldnt be at all suprised now if floyd and his litter mates werent the first accidental litter , what really gets me about her (the backyard breeder which she obviously is) is the fact she has a litter off 5 puppies up for sale again who are 8 week old our boy floyd is only 10mth old (approx he was born 5th june 2012) so poor floyds mum was caught on her season after the last litter was born (the new litter is advertised on preloved ) and i would not be at all suprised if i look around again in approx 10mth time she has another litter of accidental puppies , think it is awful what she is doing to her poor bitch dog


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Delta2012 said:


> Hi Swarthy , i was on here as lisa14061975 and this my new profile on here , you posted a few replies on my post and i just wanted to update you and everyone else who also posted as this so called accidental mating (we got our gorgeous boy floyd from (fox red labrador) has accidentally happened again , and i wouldnt be at all suprised now if floyd and his litter mates werent the first accidental litter , what really gets me about her (the backyard breeder which she obviously is) is the fact she has a litter off 5 puppies up for sale again who are 8 week old our boy floyd is only 10mth old (approx he was born 5th june 2012) so poor floyds mum was caught on her season after the last litter was born (the new litter is advertised on preloved ) and i would not be at all suprised if i look around again in approx 10mth time she has another litter of accidental puppies , think it is awful what she is doing to her poor bitch dog


Not sure if I have misunderstood but how do you know this accidental litter is from the same bitch as your pup?


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## Delta2012 (Feb 20, 2013)

chichi said:


> Not sure if I have misunderstood but how do you know this accidental litter is from the same bitch as your pup?


I know because we have kept in touch with her (not very very regular havent spoken to her for several mths )as she wanted to know how the puppies were as they growing up , we also keep in touch with the breeder off our other dog . She specifically told me that she had another litter 8 week ago same mother as our lad floyd she only has two labradors and thats mum and dad , also on the advert the pics off the mum and dad are up on advert and its the mum and dad that we met , her reason for not having the mum done was that she kept saying she would arrange it tomorrow and tomorrow never came


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Delta2012 said:


> I know because we have kept in touch with her (not very very regular havent spoken to her for several mths )as she wanted to know how the puppies were as they growing up , we also keep in touch with the breeder off our other dog . She specifically told me that she had another litter 8 week ago same mother as our lad floyd she only has two labradors and thats mum and dad , also on the advert the pics off the mum and dad are up on advert and its the mum and dad that we met , her reason for not having the mum done was that she kept saying she would arrange it tomorrow and tomorrow never came


I do know about "tomorrow never coming" - until we are once again going through the "fun" NOT of keeping the girls and boys separated at season times.

I've possibly missed posts - but this does ring a bell - how many litters has the woman had from the bitch? as the KC now have a limit of no more than 4 litters from any bitch (and for some breeds under the ABS scheme - there are lower limits again).


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## Delta2012 (Feb 20, 2013)

swarthy said:


> I do know about "tomorrow never coming" - until we are once again going through the "fun" NOT of keeping the girls and boys separated at season times.
> 
> I've possibly missed posts - but this does ring a bell - how many litters has the woman had from the bitch? as the KC now have a limit of no more than 4 litters from any bitch (and for some breeds under the ABS scheme - there are lower limits again).


Hi Swarthy , the gorgeous boy floyd that we got from one litter was born 5th june 2012 , and the same bitch has another litter they are 8 week old now so born approx 30th january


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Delta2012 said:


> Hi Swarthy , the gorgeous boy floyd that we got from one litter was born 5th june 2012 , and the same bitch has another litter they are 8 week old now so born approx 30th january


Bizarre - I really thought I'd replied to this. 

had mum had any litters prior to your boys? that is minimal break between litters  there may be occasional exceptions with valid reasons - but most definitely not the rule.

Is she claiming these litters are all accidents? if she is - then tomorrow really does need to come and quickly


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## Delta2012 (Feb 20, 2013)

Hi , i dont know for sure if my boys litter was the first litter , but yes again this is another apparent accidental litter , she said our lads litter was the first litter off accidental puppies but under the circumstances i beginning to doubt that as the truth . and possibly isnt the first litter but i couldnt prove she had another litter . 
You did reply when i was under my previous username , lisa14061975, as i was trying to trace the pedigree name off my floyd dad as she blanked out his pedigree name on the copies off the pedigrees she gave us but i know you got very busy re work etc


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