# Introducing Kittens



## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

Hi there,

This may have been posted before, so I apologise, but I would be grateful of a little advice regarding introducing kittens; both of which are female, young and from different litters.

We've had our first kitten (Pippa) from around 12 weeks old (She's currently around 18 weeks old). As I have just graduated from university and have been job hunting, she has had someone in the house pretty much 24/7 since we brought her home. However, I have since found a job and, come the 13th October, I will be out most of the day, as will my girlfriend. Pip is a very affectionate cat and we have been worrying that she would get bored at home on her own all day. 

We have decided to keep Pip as an indoor cat as we live in a very built-up area (my girlfriend has had two cats hit by cars in the past and didn't want the same fate befalling these). So two days ago, we picked up another kitten (Peanut) who is 12 weeks old. She will also be an indoor cat and we got her primarily as company for Pippa when we are both at work (the RSPCA advise that indoor cats can be completely happy with company and plenty of stimulation). She is also a very sweet and loving cat. We decided to get her now as I still have 10 days to help introduce them while my girlfriend is at work.

My question regards what is the best way to introduce them? Currently we have Peanut confined to the spare room with a bed, litter tray, food and water. As we have frosted glass panels on our doors, the cats have spied each other on a few occasions, and following a brief period of bristly fur, they have begun hissing at each other. Interestingly, both cats seems completely unaware of the other's existence when they aren't in sight of each other. Both Pip and Peanut act completely normally when apart. I have also observed that some encounters finish with no hissing, just a staring match.

Before writing this post, I took Peanut from the spare room, plonked her in my bedroom (where Pip sleeps in her cat cave) and then put Pip in the spare room. Pip went sniffing about the place and was a little nervous but seemed completely normal a short time afterwards.

Any advice on how to introduce them physically would be great. Should I just plonk them down in the same room after another day or so? I have heard that very young kittens such as these should get along well, in time.

Many thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

UPDATE

Okay, so here's the situation now. The new kitty (Peanut) woke up today and has all of a sudden become very bold. I am trying to keep her in the safe room (due to our resident kitten, Pippa) but she literally won't stop miaowing, if she is kept in the room. I obviously can't stay in there all day with her...

Anyway, I've let her have a wander round the house where she proceeded to use Pippa's litter tray and scratching post..which Pippa didn't like! There has been no actual contact/violence, but a lot of hissing and growling when they meet. Sometimes they bump noses with no noises, but then they just growl and hiss a short time afterward.

I'm not sure what to do! Peanut doesn't want to be locked in, but then hisses whenever Pippa comes near her. Pippa isn't thrilled with a new cat using her stuff (understandable). We do have separate trays and toys for Peanut and Pip, but she's not interested in using them- she want's to use Pips! If I try and lock Pippa away while Peanut roams, she gets a bit confused as to why she is locked out of "her" territory.

Both are currently asleep in the same room (Pip in her cat cave, Peanut on the sofa). Should I still try and separate them? My instincts are saying that they will actually get on (both are very soft personality-wise with humans) but I can't tell whether I am doing more harm than good at the moment. I'm not sure how I can proceed with the 'slow' method of introduction when both cat "want" to check each other out.

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

Hi and welcome to our forums. I think with time your kittens will become friends  What feels like a slow process to us may be still too fast for kitties. I'm sure other kitten owners will come along shortly and share their tips. 

I've experienced that - in some cases - elaborate scent swapping could help with introductions of adult cats. So maybe with kitten introduction too. This is what I was asked to do for my cats to make them believe they're best friends. I was advised to give my cats smaller portions in the morning so they ate their food and licked the bowl. Then I had to swap the bowls without cleaning them and put more food in. Saliva is very fragrant and by exchanging saliva cats learn to recognise and accept each other. I actually used this trick with bowl swapping more than once a day. 

You can also try to swap their bedding and exchange toys. It's great you still have over a week to oversee the introductions. And congrats on finding a job


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

Ragdollsfriend said:


> Hi and welcome to our forums. I think with time your kittens will become friends  What feels like a slow process to us may be still too fast for kitties. I'm sure other kitten owners will come along shortly and share their tips.
> 
> I've experienced that - in some cases - elaborate scent swapping could help with introductions of adult cats. So maybe with kitten introduction too. This is what I was asked to do for my cats to make them believe they're best friends. I was advised to give my cats smaller portions in the morning so they ate their food and licked the bowl. Then I had to swap the bowls without cleaning them and put more food in. Saliva is very fragrant and by exchanging saliva cats learn to recognise and accept each other. I actually used this trick with bowl swapping more than once a day.
> 
> You can also try to swap their bedding and exchange toys. It's great you still have over a week to oversee the introductions. And congrats on finding a job


Hey there, many thanks for your reply 

The bowl idea is a good one- I'll certainly try that this evening. I have been doing the scent rubbing with a sock the past day (rewarding both cats when they don't flinch/back away etc when they smell the sock).

I'm surprised at just how quickly both cats wanted to see each other to be honest- I thought it would take longer. However, when they do actually see each other, they remember they don't like each other yet and go back to hissing and growling! I get the impression that the 12-week-old (Peanut) wants to be with other cats still, as she was only taken from her mum a few days ago. However, she is usually the one that instigates aggressive behaviour when Pip comes to investigate. It's quite contradictory from a human perspective.


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## ALR (Apr 16, 2014)

If they are asleep in the same room it suggest that they feel safe enough around each other to go to sleep. This is still early days so the situation can change quickly sometimes but it's a good sign. 

Since they are kittens it should be an easier introduction. There's been hissing and growling but no escalation, I'd think that's good. I probably would have taken it slow but it seems the two are learning to get along. 

I'd play with them with fish rod toys. It's a great bonding exercise. Also try to distract them from staring at each other either with toys or doing something odd e.g. throwing an object on the floor. 

But play should teach them that it's fun to have a mate


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

ALR said:


> If they are asleep in the same room it suggest that they feel safe enough around each other to go to sleep. This is still early days so the situation can change quickly sometimes.
> 
> Since they are kittens it should be an easier. There's been hissing and growling but no escalation, I'd think that's good. I probably would have taken it slow but it seems the two are learning to get along.
> 
> ...


Hey there, thanks for your reply.

I would have liked to take it slower but, save from ignoring Peanut or locking Pip out of her territory, I couldn't see a solution. Peanut literally won't shut up if you leave her in a room on her own!

I had noticed the staring, but didn't think to distract them- I will start doing this going forward. Thanks for the tip!


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## Ragdollsfriend (Feb 13, 2014)

peanutpip said:


> I would have liked to take it slower but, save from ignoring Peanut or locking Pip out of her territory, I couldn't see a solution. Peanut literally won't shut up if you leave her in a room on her own!


Btw, have a read of a very similar thread in our Cat Chat: "Introducing Kittens. Siblings who had 2 weeks apart" It seems it's OK to let the kittens play and fight as that's what kittens do :wink:


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Hi and welcome 
It all sounds pretty good so far. To separate them now would be a step backwards in my opinion so I'd forge ahead with what you already have got 
If a bit of growling, hissing and staring is the extent of it that's great. Allow them to complain about each other vocally, that will soon stop. Keep an eye on the staring and try to defuse any chasing that may result.
Play and feed together. Lots of positive reinforcement and encouragement for both cats.
I have a feeling that within a week or two your girls will be BFF


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

I introduced my 4 1/2 month old (who had not been socialised as she was taken from her mum at 5 weeks - we were duped!) to a new 3 1/2 month old a few weeks ago...

We didn't have the space to do slow introductions and we'd read, plus got advice on here, that younger kittens are much easier to introduce than adult cats.

I must say the first few hours were a bit scary - lots of hissing and growling (from existing kitten). I was so upset and thought they'd never get on. Fast forward 24 hours and they were sleeping together, grooming each other.. The lot! They are now best friends who are currently snuggled up together on the sofa.

They do fight a lot, but it's just play. They always go back for more. It looks scary but there are never injuries - neck biting/ pinning down/ batting are common! At first it was about establishing a hierarchy - Loca was showing little Alf who was boss. But now it's pretty even! They love playing chase (at 6am..!!!). 

I read a very interesting book called Cat V Cat - I'd recommend it as it eased a lot of my fears. 

I'd keep a close eye on them in the next few days but I'm sure, especially if they are sleeping in the same area, that they will be friends! Hope it goes well!


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

Morning everyone and thanks for the replies since my last post- both me and my girlfriend are encouraged by your comments 

So, we've just woken up. Peanut was going mad in her safe room, miaowing constantly, so we let her into the hallway. We were in our bedroom with the door closed (with Pip). We then let Peanut in where she padded in, purring loudly. Pip was a bit apprehensive, but there was no hissing, no growling just the odd paw (gentle, no claws) from Pippa.

I then walked downstairs with them saying it was breakfast, they both followed next to each other keenly. Both ate breakfast next to each other!

A few mins after breakfast, Peanut started growling whenever Pip comes close. As it stand at the moment, there hasn't been a single growl or hiss from Pippa in over 12 hours. I think she's quite keen to become friends. Peanut isn't hissing any more, but does keep having these little growling sessions when Pip is within about 1ft of her. Pippa is, however following her like her shadow, occasionally swatting her but nothing violent at all.

I'm very encouraged by the first 20 minutes after we woke up, but we're kind of back to how it was after last night. It's still very much early days, but hopefully the new kitten will begin to settle down today and stop growling.


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

Update- they have since started having a bit of a scrap. It's fast and not gentle, but based of what I've read, it's nothing over the top. Maybe they are establishing their heirarchy? It certainly doesn't seem like a friendly fight, more one to establish who is boss.

I've put Pip in the front room for a bit to cool down. She was more playful but still bullying Peanut until she was hiding under the sofa growling. However, she instantly comes out and wanted to go into the front room after I took Pip there. Weird!

FINAL UPDATE - They just had a very nasty fight. It sounded like two tom cats fighting in an alley. We have separated them for a bit.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Oh dear, that's a shame.
Did you get to see what triggered it? Who was the instigator? 
What was the fight like? Did it involve chasing? Rolling around wrestling on the floor?
It's definitely a good idea to keep them apart for now, let everything cool down.


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

moggie14 said:


> Oh dear, that's a shame.
> Did you get to see what triggered it? Who was the instigator?
> What was the fight like? Did it involve chasing? Rolling around wrestling on the floor?
> It's definitely a good idea to keep them apart for now, let everything cool down.


I'm not sure. Pip is so engrossed with her in a curious way, she just follows peanut everywhere. I think Peanut is just getting a bit tired, hissed/growled and then a fight broke out. It's the worst fight they've had. It mainly involved Peanut rolling over on her back, Pip was on top and they were boxing/wrestling. There wasn't a chase prior.

I closed them off for a while to have a cool down, and that's certainly helped things. They are back together now, and things are certainly less violent.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

peanutpip said:


> It mainly involved Peanut rolling over on her back, Pip was on top and they were boxing/wrestling. There wasn't a chase prior.


Ah that doesn't sound so bad to be honest. Peanut is showing submission by lying on her back and Pip is taking the opportunity to show authority - all pretty standard 
You'll have a few of these whilst they establish a relationship - I'd only be concerned if they were hurting eachother, fur flying and one of them running and hiding away. Intervene if it is a bit too rough but otherwise these scraps will hopefully turn into play fights very soon


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

moggie14 said:


> Ah that doesn't sound so bad to be honest. Peanut is showing submission by lying on her back and Pip is taking the opportunity to show authority - all pretty standard
> You'll have a few of these whilst they establish a relationship - I'd only be concerned if they were hurting eachother, fur flying and one of them running and hiding away. Intervene if it is a bit too rough but otherwise these scraps will hopefully turn into play fights very soon


That's good  There was definitely no fur flying, but it was the first time I heard one (or both, I couldn't tell!) making a lot of screeching, so it did worry me.

I just worry that Peanut is getting sick of being followed EVERYWHERE haha. I can't keep her locked up as she wants to explore/play but then when she's out and about, she is never out of Pip's sight. Hopefully Peanut will just accept that Pip isn't going away over the next few days!!


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

This is Simon's girlfriend typing as he is busy painting...

Update: we really don't know how to call this one now!

In one respect we are about to give up as when they are in the same room together Pippa (resident cat) will NOT leave Peanut alone. She is constantly stalking her and Peanut is being fairly submissive so I'm not sure if it's a hierarchal thing anymore or if she is just plain bullying her. But they seriously cannot be left in the same room. Pip is just constantly stalking and pouncing on Peanut. It nearly always results in a fight now - mostly just swatting but sometimes more violent and always lots of growling from Peanut. We've told Pippa off a few times for it as she is just relentless and won't leave the new kitty alone but I don't know if it's the right thing to do. We just feel sorry for Peanut. Not that it's making any difference as Pip isn't listening to us!

In another respect they seem to be doing okay as they will eat out of the same bowl at the same time, use the same litter tray, sleep in the same beds (not together...) so they can't completely hate each other. I just don't understand it!

I'm really really reluctant to give the new kitty up as she is such a softie and really affectionate but at the same time I don't know how long I should let this go on...it doesn't seem fair to either of them.

Any advice/wisdom would be gratefully received x


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Are you sure the fighting isn't just playing? Have a look on YouTube for cat fights - they are vicious! 

Loca used to stalk Alfie for the first few days and the fighting looked awful but it was just play! What position are their ears in? A sign of aggression is if the ears are flat back.

If it looks like it's getting out of hand, have a toy nearby to distract. 

Also, if you have a kindle then download the book Cat v Cat - it is really informative!


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

LizzieandLoca said:


> Are you sure the fighting isn't just playing? Have a look on YouTube for cat fights - they are vicious!
> 
> Loca used to stalk Alfie for the first few days and the fighting looked awful but it was just play! What position are their ears in? A sign of aggression is if the ears are flat back.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply  We're not sure if it is always play fighting as Peanut will growl/hiss nearly every time Pip approaches her. Did either of your kitties do that? Neither of us have noticed Pip's ears going flat back. However, Peanuts ears do when they are properly wresting, but I presume that's probably to protect them?

Having said that, if they truly disliked each other, I can' imagine they would be willing to share bowls etc. I know conventional wisdom is that kittens integrate well, but as Pip is 5 months and Peanut 3, I think that's quite a bit relative age gap (Pip is nearly twice as old as Peanut!). As such she has 'grown' into her body more. She's a lot more confident jumping and with her paws. I wonder if part of the problem is that Peanut is still very much a baby?


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

That's a similar age gap to Loca and Alfie.. 

There was growling and hissing from Loca to begin with and Alfie would sometimes squeak during the play fights but Loca soon learnt to stop when he made any noise. 

Loca will still sometimes hiss if Alfie takes her by surprise. 

Your situation does sound similar to my two. I would just make sure you supervise them, have toys ready to distract if need be and try not to worry too much. Play fights really do look a lot worse than they are. Especially when they are both crazy little kittens! 

Plus the eating, sleeping etc in the same place is a good sign. 

Do they both keep coming back for more? Alfie would hide under the sofa at first but then would always come back for more rough and tumble. I'm not expert but I would say as long as one isn't constantly hiding from the other, it's not a bullying situation and is more like still establishing top cat, interspersed with play! 

We were lucky that our two sorted it out so quickly, but with yours it might just take a bit more time.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

I forgot to say.. We gave Loca Zylkene tablets in the run up to bringing Alfie home and for a few days after arrives. They are natural tablets that will ease anxiety - you can get online.

Also, we had a pet remedy plug in too, just to calm them both.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Oh no, please don't consider giving Peanut back - it's only been 5 days!! 
There are lots of good signs there so persevere 
If they are still not best buddies when you have to go back to work and leave them during the day then I would just keep them apart for now.


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

Thanks so much for the replies and advice everyone.

Well I never....


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Awww what gorgeous girlies :001_wub:
Judging by that photo you really have nothing to worry about :thumbup1:


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## peanutpip (Oct 3, 2014)

moggie14 said:


> Awww what gorgeous girlies :001_wub:
> Judging by that photo you really have nothing to worry about :thumbup1:


We can't believe it! It was like a switch was flicked.

They've had a few fights since that but now we know they can be friends, we will just let them get on with it!


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I honestly think the 'fights' are rough play. My boys are 2 and nearly 3 and still have moments when one pins the other down on the floor and bites their jugular until the other yells! Then in half an hours time when they are both knackered they snuggle up for mutual grooming and a nap.
Can't wait to hear more about them


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## Gembobs (Sep 29, 2014)

I have literally just been through this. (I started the other thread mentioned in a reply to you. 'siblings 2 weeks apart'......that seemingly didn't remember eachother at all!) 

The main thing for me was recognising what a real fight looked like and in many respects, letting them get on with it if it wasn't too serious. If it escalated I would separate and when they met again it was better every time, like they both knew who came out tops from the previous time without having had to go all the way. Also for me, realising that they will have bad moments and not want to have to play/fight the other, and start getting annoyed, I would give them a rest from eachother and play with them in separate rooms. The good moments have increased though, until 9 days later they are inseperable. X 

Wishing you guys the same delight I am having with mine. X


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