# The Scottish Referendum, for the members residing in Scotland!



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

..............................................................


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

someone said the other day,"Proud to be Scottish, delighted to be united."

I am English, live in Scotland.....will note No Thanks.


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## Maiaetta (Jul 3, 2014)

Voting yes.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

yes but will be moving back to England in the future


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

it's a no from me, I just don't think it would be the wisest move for us, I heard on the news today that there are about 1 million people who have said they will vote yes


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Awww why?
> 
> Are you voting on the 18th?
> 
> And thank you for casting on the poll above!


Moved here 10 years ago to downsize from a big farm..and, I wanted to see dolphins.lol Now decided we want to retire early, buy a house near to an airport and/or port and buy a house in the sun. Takes too long to travel from here to anywhere.

Its beautiful here, open wild and free...and the locals are not too bad either


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

lilythepink said:


> yes but will be moving back to England in the future


So why vote then


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

cos I still live here and it could be another 10 years before I finally get around to moving


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

I'm English and live in England but have a Scottish address. Don't know how it will affect me if they become independent. I may be stateless. I may have to declare independence the same as Pimlico.


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## Paula07 (Aug 23, 2010)

I am voting yes!! Will be gutted if we don't get independence.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

foxiesummer said:


> I'm English and live in England but have a Scottish address.


Ahhhhh the exact opposite of my parents - who also stay near the border but have an English postcode / phone number even though they are most definitely in Scotland!

For me, there are far too many things that apparently can't be given answers to until they know for certain we'd be splitting - that (for me) means a big 'oh no' as there's bound to be stuff they've not even thought about

AND the currency issue - they've not even managed to resolve that ... both sides saying they're right

That's a big issue for me (and many others) - many travel across the border each day for work / trading purposes. Can you imagine the consequences of having one set of currency for being at 'home' and another set if you want to buy lunch or shopping while you're the other side of the border?

I'm all for more power being given to the Scottish Government and for them to have more control over how money is spent here and for me, it's a shame that there wasn't a question along those lines

Lord help us if it's a Yes, it has the potential to be an absolute disaster


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Paula07 said:


> I am voting yes!! *Will be gutted if we don't get independence.*


I hope you do, then we won't have to listen to the Scots whining all the time and NO you can't have the pound.


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## foxiesummer (Feb 4, 2009)

Lilylass said:


> Ahhhhh the exact opposite of my parents - who also stay near the border but have an English postcode / phone number even though they are most definitely in Scotland!
> 
> For me, there are far too many things that apparently can't be given answers to until they know for certain we'd be splitting - that (for me) means a big 'oh no' as there's bound to be stuff they've not even thought about
> 
> ...


That's my problem. Most of my customers are from Scotland. My doctor is in Scotland and if I dial 999 I get a Scottish ambulance/police/fire etc. My vet is in Scotland, I pay my community charge and business rates in England.
I spend most of my shopping budget in Scotland. I had occasion to go to the Q dentist. I was asked if I wanted to go on the NHS waiting list. Filled in the forms. Got a reply back that they couldn't take me as I was in Scotland. Pointed out I wasn't but they wouldn't budge, got in touch with the Scottish lot but they said no as I was in England. Had to go private, cost me £600 last time. Boooo hooo nobody luvs me, lol.


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## soulful dog (Nov 6, 2011)

Lilylass said:


> Lord help us if it's a Yes, it has the potential to be an absolute disaster


I'm still as yet undecided, but edging towards yes. To be honest, I'm more concerned about the creeping privatisation of the NHS and the fact that there seem to be more and more people needing help of things like food banks in our country than anything that is just 'unknown' or 'uncertain'.

Yes there are concerns about various issues, but I simply don't understand the view that it might lead to a disaster? Hasn't the Scottish Parliament shown that even the SNP (and I'm pretty sure I remember there being scare stories about how them getting power would be terrible) can do a reasonable job of running the country?

Less money spent on defence (albeit a lot of defence jobs consequently being lost), no longer fighting battles that are nothing to do with us, a fairer system of government, and the biggie for me, no more back-door privatisation of the NHS. Independence definitely has its appealing aspects, and I just wish someone could convince me of the benefits of staying in the UK as opposed to the risks of not.

Not that it matters because I think we're heading for a reasonably close vote but the no vote will edge out the yes by 5-10%. There won't be a clear and resounding win for either side, and my big regret is that too many people will vote no because of fear of the unknown and not in any great belief that either independence or staying together is the best option.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2014)

They should of just gone with...










...would of carried more weight?
:lol:


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

I believe Hadrian's wall is being repaired as we type :001_tongue:


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Is it being repaired from the north facing side or south facing?? :lol:


Depends which way your facing ..lol


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2014)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Are the English dwelling members casting votes on my poll?


With just over a bakers dozen votes in total...hmm...


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

I'm a no vote.

I'm also half and half, in the sense that my mum is Scottish, my dad is English (but grew up in Scotland)... I'm a Pad Brat, born in BMH munster and my passport says British. I speak with an English accent but have grown up and lived all over the UK. 

I call myself British and I want to keep it that way. My life has been the British Army and I was born on British soil abroad. If Scotland got independence, what would I call myself


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

English here, not voted in the poll as question not relevant to me.

I can't help but feel that the independence question is creating a lot of 'them-and-us' feeling between the two countries. :blink:


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Are the English dwelling members casting votes on my poll?
> 
> The poll above is just for members who are currently residing in Scotland, and are registered to vote on the 18th of September.
> 
> ...


So because the majority of people that voted in your poll didn't vote how you wanted them to, you think its 'fixed'?

hmmmmm ok.....


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> That is not what I said  Naughty!


 I didn't say you had said that - the question mark makes it clear it's a question doesn't it?



> The "No's" just went up again as you posted though.


That's because I voted no



> Do you reside in Scotland?  I had a nosy on your profile, but it doesn't say.


No I don't - but I have family that do who aren't on this forum who are voting NO, so I voted on their behalf for you.



> ps. When I posted what you have quoted, it was actually 5 votes to 5.


When I posted the numbers were not even. Apparently my English crystal ball has stopped working.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

I really don't know what some Scots think will happen if they get independence. They seem to think that North Sea Oil will finally go to its rightful owners...the Scots and life will become a bed of roses. It won't.

Scotland can and should always be Scottish, just as Wales will be Welsh etc but I wonder just how people so committed to Independence think the country will survive financially.

Idon't think any of our politicians are in it for the good of the people. Alex Salmond is my local MP...have yet to find anybody with a good word for him.

Under 5 million people...and that includes old and young.....live in a country with a large surface area but most of it unpopulated.

I also heard that the vote age is for this is being lowered to 16.....obviously the powers that be are worried they won't get independence without it.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.


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## ljs85 (Jun 2, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> I also heard that the vote age is for this is being lowered to 16.....obviously the powers that be are worried they won't get independence without it.


While I'm undecided still (and getting fed up with both campaigns propaganda!), I am glad that finally the 16 year olds are getting the vote. After all they could join the army, get married and have children but not get to vote! ut:


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

ljs85 said:


> While I'm undecided still (and getting fed up with both campaigns propaganda!), I am glad that finally the 16 year olds are getting the vote. After all they could join the army, get married and have children but not get to vote! ut:


not sure if this is just for the referendum or in general though.

and, join the army or get married...isn't that with parents written permission?

I don't listen to the propaganda......both sides lie and make false promises and I think many people won't turn out to vote aswell.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

There are Yes and No signs springing up all over the place here just now. The Yes ones seem to be as far up a lamp post as you can get them and the No ones in fields at the sides of the roads seem to be getting pulled down and left on the ground.

we live in a tourist area, seems some locals want tourist from England money but not the English?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

George Monbiot has a good reason to vote Yes > I'd vote yes, to rid Scotland of its feudal landowners | George Monbiot | Comment is free | The Guardian

I'm not Scottish but if I was, for this reason alone ,I would be voting yes. Plus maybe a yes vote would save the NHS from privatisation in Scotland?

.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Why shouldn't the English and Welsh have a say in this? Surely the Scottish wish to be able to vote for their own rulers means others have the right to vote for theirs? May not be many but Scotland does help decide the number of seats in parliament or am I wrong? (Quick look puts it at 59 out of 533). How far do you take this? Could Pimlico decide to declare independence and if not, why not? 

I know several Germans currently in Scotland. All will vote to stay in the UK.


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## conehead (Jun 16, 2010)

I think the £ is the sticking point here. The way I see it, if Scotland votes for independance it can't keep the pound. Anything to do with the pound would be controlled from Westminster, which would make it impossible to be independant. 
The pound after all is British, so if the scots leave Britain they would have to have a new currency.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> It isn't just about oil, we are MANY natural resources rich!
> Heck it rains here endlessly lol.
> Scotland has ONE Tory seat in Scotland, yet we are ruled by a Tory Government. Every time a Tory government gets in all through history, Scotland NEVER voted for them. THAT is not a democracy! There are ENDLESS reasons to go Independent....
> 
> I will post a link to a fantastic short video highlighting why a YES is necessary for anyone interested! I need to change from mobile phone to laptop to do so (still in bed lol).


I never personally voted for any of the governments in power when in the UK. Does that mean it's not democracy as that seems to be your argument.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Its a no from me,alex salmond can not give credible answers to questions,resorts to personal insults during debate.we have high unemployment,ageing population....where is the magic money tree that will sustain this?...oil?.I look at my daughter just now who has attained a degree,she is now in the process of a phd in the science industry.would she have this if we became independent? will her earnings in the future be heavily taxed to support independence?.will I still see corrie and easties?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> You clearly do not understand the point I am making! :sosp:


I do understand, I simply put it in perspective rather than propaganda.

All the video does is show how little people are basing their votes on.. "Of course we'll keep the pound".. says it all.

If it happens, it will not be a nice separation. It will be a messy divorce as you always have when you have 2 extremely stubborn sides.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Goblin said:


> Why shouldn't the English and Welsh have a say in this? Surely the Scottish wish to be able to vote for their own rulers means others have the right to vote for theirs? May not be many but Scotland does help decide the number of seats in parliament or am I wrong? (Quick look puts it at 59 out of 533). How far do you take this? Could Pimlico decide to declare independence and if not, why not?
> 
> I know several Germans currently in Scotland. All will vote to stay in the UK.


I was told the English were given a chance but didn't want a vote. Not sure how true it is


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> I was told the English were given a chance but didn't want a vote. Not sure how true it is


Shouldn't we have had a referendum on if we wanted a referendum


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Are the English dwelling members casting votes on my poll?
> 
> The poll above is just for members who are currently residing in Scotland, and are registered to vote on the 18th of September.
> 
> ...


well you should have only out it on a Scottish forum then. Its very rude to submit a poll or even a thread and say only certain members can take part.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I am guessing you voted in my poll (the NO's jumped up another one as you posted)? Even though you reside in Germany, when I asked only members who have a vote on the 18th Sept, post on my poll.


Guessing sums it up doesn't it. Guessing and facts do not actually mean the same thing


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I clearly asked only the members eligible to vote in the actual Referendum post on my poll. But you still voted on my poll.
> 
> You are clearly looking to be obtuse. And trying to get a rise out of me  But I ain't rising


Guess what - this is a public forum of which I am a member. As such I am entitled to post on any thread I wish to. I am also entitled to vote on any poll I wish to.

If you want threads and polls to be exclusive it may be an idea to go and start your own forum, where you can control what people say, and where they say it.

The fact that you are trying to insult me for telling you I voted on your precious poll, says far more about you than it does about me


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> It isn't just about oil, we are MANY natural resources rich!
> Heck it rains here endlessly lol.
> Scotland has ONE Tory seat in Scotland, yet we are ruled by a Tory Government. Every time a Tory government gets in all through history, Scotland NEVER voted for them. THAT is not a democracy! There are ENDLESS reasons to go Independent....
> 
> I will post a link to a fantastic short video highlighting why a YES is necessary for anyone interested! I need to change from mobile phone to laptop to do so (still in bed lol).


half the voters didn't vote the tories in either.so what?

what will happen next? People not living in Edinburgh will start to complain that only Edinburgh and surrounding areas are represented by Holyrood.

and....which muppet designed that awful building at Holyrood? and how much did it go over budget with tax payers money? Not even got control yet and look at one of their finest examples is at. Power corrupts.....London or Edinburgh.

Maybe Manchester should have its own parliament too...cos its 200 miles from London...oh, and what about Leeds....no wait...Birmingham.

We united as strength cos we were a stronger nation together.

and free rule for Angelsey.....well, why not, Isle of Man has its own.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> My reply to you and all the others who just love to pick fault:


LMAO. I just love the way you cry you are being singled out and picked on when people don;'t agree with you. maybe if you learned some manners and stopped being so rude, people would want to listen to your point of view.

What is this...see how far and long you can go before you get yet another thread closed?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> It isn't just about oil, we are MANY natural resources rich!
> Heck it rains here endlessly lol.
> Scotland has ONE Tory seat in Scotland, yet we are ruled by a Tory Government. Every time a Tory government gets in all through history, Scotland NEVER voted for them. THAT is not a democracy! There are ENDLESS reasons to go Independent....
> 
> I will post a link to a fantastic short video highlighting why a YES is necessary for anyone interested! I need to change from mobile phone to laptop to do so (still in bed lol).


all I ever hear about is how the English stole and continue to steal the oil. They forget to consider who pays their benefits. They think that the revenue from North Sea Oil will solve all worries...well, wouldn't they all be in for a shock cos I doubt very much that anybody living in Scotland will receive a spare penny from any revenue.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I said in my opening post, all are welcome to post! But the poll was so see how the Scottish members are voting. Otherwise the poll is a waste of time.
> 
> I may delete the poll, as it is clearly not representative or accurate now! Cheers.
> 
> The fact you voted in my poll, and were insulting from the get go, says much more about YOU.


she wasn't being insulting.but you are getting personal


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> Its a no from me,alex salmond can not give credible answers to questions,resorts to personal insults during debate.we have high unemployment,ageing population....where is the magic money tree that will sustain this?...oil?.I look at my daughter just now who has attained a degree,she is now in the process of a phd in the science industry.would she have this if we became independent? will her earnings in the future be heavily taxed to support independence?.will I still see corrie and easties?


I agree with you re Alex Salmond. Scotland is a beautiful country, agree totally re ageing population


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Take it I haven't missed anything whilst I've been away then :001_unsure:


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

geez a poll is causing a riot.....what happens if independence is denied. why is the flower of Scotland words going through my brain?.....pmsl!


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Do you know what annoys me more than anything? Those people who are so set on a 'yes' vote that they will not take a breath and even consider both sides. 

You posted something earlier saying that it would embarrassing to call yourself Scottish if Scottish didn't get independence.... WHY?! 

If Scotland doesn't get independence, it's because the majority didn't think want it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to stay as part of The UK. 

I do not want Scotland to become independent, that's my opinion and the conclusion I've come to without lying and shoving it down people's throat.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

A night out in England could get interesting...passport required at the border!...Scottish foreigners lol.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I sooooo wasn't... I advise you to reread McWillow's and my posts.
> 
> But please keep this thread on topic.
> 
> Thank you.


Where exactly have I insulted you?

The only insult I see is you calling me obtuse.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Scotland pays in more vat and taxes, than it takes out of the system. Fact! Therefore we pay our own benefits really, and actually Scotland subsidizes the rest of the UK!!!
> 
> You now know!
> 
> And it isn't all about the oil, Independence is about so much more, please read what is posted through your door!


population of Scotland....under 5 million. population of England....over 60 million...and Scotland subsidises England?????my point exactly...and tell me, all done and paid for with oil.

where do you get your figures from...cos you need to go check them


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> That is a not happening lol!!! Please read what gets posted through your letterbox and watch the debates on TV. OMG!


Belinda cam ure jets hen!....most of the lies posted through my letterbox has been binned(by all parties).now I am voting no.i have already posted my reasons why.see me?.....I like humour Belinda,i even try to include it in my posts.....lightens the atmos somewhat!


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I sooooo wasn't... I advise you to reread McWillow's and my posts.
> 
> But please keep this thread on topic.
> 
> Thank you.


you are so rude....just can't help yourself, can you?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> As usual the UK is trying to drown out the Scottish voice. And this thread has sadly demonstrated that! Oh the irony!
> 
> O flower of Scotland
> When will we see
> ...


Is there a rugby match on? am sure I can hear bagpipes.:rolleyes5:


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

There is nothing wrong with calling myself Scottish, if that's how I felt. But I don't feel like I am truly Scottish. Like I said, my mum is Scottish, dad is English (half and half, you following?)... I was born on BRITISH soil abroad (Not Scottish, not English but British, got it?).
I have spent my whole 25 years living all over the world (five of which have been in Scotland, seven in England and I've also lived in Germany, Cyprus, Gibraltar, Ireland and other places)...

I speak with an English accent.

I feel no more Scottish than I do English... Got me yet?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Lauren5159 said:


> There is nothing wrong with calling myself Scottish, if that's how I felt. But I don't feel like I am truly Scottish. Like I said, my mum is Scottish, dad is English (half and half, you following?)... I was born on BRITISH soil abroad (Not Scottish, not English but British, got it?).
> I have spent my whole 25 years living all over the world (five of which have been in Scotland, seven in England and I've also lived in Germany, Cyprus, Gibraltar, Ireland and other places)...
> 
> I speak with an English accent
> ...


I have 7 grandchildren. 5 born in Aberdeen, 2 born in England. All parents born in England. Locals here tell me my grandchildren are Scottish if they are born here.They all speak with English accents. We are all classed as British, ...all come from United K.United being operative word


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

we moved here to semi retire. At first, all I ever heard from locals was how English sell their right to buy council flats in England and make a killing then move here and further north where its cheaper still to buy property. Buy a house with land and think they are laird of the manor.

"You English, come here, take our jobs and buy our cheap houses...." and they believe this rubbish too....just like they believe the rubbish about getting independence.

So, I have to ask myself...why do so many English move so far north?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I got you from the beginning. You are clearly not a passionate Scot (your words, not mine), and your vote is reflecting that. I can live and understand that.
> 
> I am passionate Scot, and passionate about my country and it's future welfare, so I am a YES!


so, without even bringing Independence into things you insult a fellow scot? Sums up the whole independence debate in a nut shell..

jUst supposing we get a Yes...who will be targeted next?


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I will not be answering any off topic posts, I will not be drawn or baited into personal arguments. Thank you.


that you alex?:lol:


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

mollydog07 said:


> that you alex?:lol:


Oooopppss rumbled (blush) :lol:


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

I haven't voted in your poll. We very nearly bought a house in Scotland last year - someone else on the forum actually bought the one we were keen on -lucky things. However reading some of your comments makes me glad we didn't. 

OP because you say FACT frequently and that you have things on your FB does not mean we all accept that your opinion is correct. We can all find articles on the internet that support our opinions. Having a debate means you listen to other peoples opinions too and don't just try to brow beat anyone who doesn't agree with you. 

I'm just wondering if your Yes vote is successful will you keep to Scottish politics in future and stay out of ours? If so I'm all in favour of the Yes vote


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I haven't voted in your poll. We very nearly bought a house in Scotland last year - someone else on the forum actually bought the one we were keen on -lucky things. However reading some of your comments makes me glad we didn't.
> 
> OP because you say FACT frequently and that you have things on your FB does not mean we all accept that your opinion is correct. We can all find articles on the internet that support our opinions. Having a debate means you listen to other peoples opinions too and don't just try to brow beat anyone who doesn't agree with you.
> 
> I'm just wondering if your Yes vote is successful will you keep to Scottish politics in future and stay out of ours? If so I'm all in favour of the Yes vote


Scotland is a beautiful place...so is England. Don't let a few muppets put you off.....I am glad we moved here and if I had the time again, would have moved here much sooner. I will be moving again, and it will be back to England.

Scotland has everything we wanted. Peaceful, quiet, lovely beaches. Its not perfect, but then where is?


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> so, without even bringing Independence into things you insult a fellow scot? Sums up the whole independence debate in a nut shell..
> 
> jUst supposing we get a Yes...who will be targeted next?





lilythepink said:


> Scotland is a beautiful place...so is England. Don't let a* few muppets* put you off.....I am glad we moved here and if I had the time again, would have moved here much sooner. I will be moving again, and it will be back to England.
> 
> Scotland has everything we wanted. Peaceful, quiet, lovely beaches. Its not perfect, but then where is?


The bit in BOLD.... then read the first post I quoted that you made, yet I am supposed to be the bad guy? Too funny. :lol: :rolleyes5:

I agree Scotland is a beautiful place, but will be even better without Trident!


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> I haven't voted in your poll. We very nearly bought a house in Scotland last year - someone else on the forum actually bought the one we were keen on -lucky things. * However reading some of your comments makes me glad we didn't. *
> 
> OP because you say FACT frequently and that you have things on your FB does not mean we all accept that your opinion is correct. We can all find articles on the internet that support our opinions. *Having a debate means you listen to other peoples opinions too and don't just try to brow beat anyone who doesn't agree with you. *
> 
> *I'm just wondering if your Yes vote is successful will you keep to Scottish politics in future and stay out of ours? If so I'm all in favour of the Yes vote *


Rottie, the first bit in bold.... makes me feel sad 

The second, I am debating and discussing it. I am not brow beating! 

The third bit in bold, EXACTLY!!! We finally agree on something, yeah!   x


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> That is a not happening lol!!! Please read what gets posted through your letterbox and watch the debates on TV. OMG!


Excuse me - you're not, by any chance, related to Henry VIII are you?

He used to throw a tantrum when anybody dared to disagree with him too.

I just LOVE the way you keep telling everyone what to read, what to think and what to say and being personal when members won't do as they're told.


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Excuse me - you're not, by any chance, related to Henry VIII are you?
> 
> He used to throw a tantrum when anybody dared to disagree with him too.
> 
> I just LOVE the way you keep telling everyone what to read, what to think and what to say and being personal when members won't do as they're told.


I am encouraging others to debate this issue, but people are just trying to turn it personal, trying to get a rise out of me by being directly rude, instead of being on topic. As your post above demonstrates that beautifully! 

It is crazy, since my posting about Cliff Richard a few weeks ago, certain members (including you) have followed me around the forum, quoting my posts and trying to make me look bad at every turn.

Just because you and your friends keep saying I am a bad un, doesn't make it true. No matter how many times you say it!!

My above post you have quoted was said with humour, you may not have picked up on that 

Now please keep this on topic, or don't post at all. Thank you.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I am encouraging others to debate this issue, but people are just trying to turn it personal, trying to get a rise out of me by being directly rude, instead of being on topic. As your post above demonstrates that beautifully!
> 
> It is crazy, since my posting about Cliff Richard a few weeks ago, certain members (including you) have followed me around the forum, quoting my posts and trying to make me look bad at every turn.
> 
> ...


Again - this is a public forum where members have a right to post what they like where they like - which part of that do you _not _ understand?


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I got you from the beginning. You are clearly not a passionate Scot (your words, not mine), and your vote is reflecting that. I can live and understand that.
> 
> I am passionate Scot, and passionate about my country and it's future welfare, so I am a YES!


No, I'm a passionate Brit. What's your point? I know plenty of passionate Scots who are voting no. This isn't 1314. No one should be romanticising independence.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

MCWillow said:


> Again - this is a public forum where members have a right to post what they like where they like - which part of that do you _not _ understand?


My point is you can post, BUT KEEP IT ON TOPIC. You and your friends are sending this thread OFF TOPIC by taking swipes at me, rather than discussing the issue of Scottish Independence.

It has been clear from your very first post, what your agenda was 

I sent you a polite pm, but you chose to derail my thread instead. Go figure, speaks volumes.


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> My point is you can post, BUT KEEP IT ON TOPIC. You and your friends are sending this thread OFF TOPIC by taking swipes at me, rather than discussing the issue of Scottish Independence.
> 
> It has been clear from your very first post, what your agenda was
> 
> I sent you a polite pm, but you chose to derail my thread instead. Go figure, speaks volumes.


If you sent me a PM it never got to my inbox - go figure


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> My point is you can post, BUT KEEP IT ON TOPIC. You and your friends are sending this thread OFF TOPIC by taking swipes at me, rather than discussing the issue of Scottish Independence.
> 
> It has been clear from your very first post, what your agenda was
> 
> I sent you a polite pm, but you chose to derail my thread instead. Go figure, speaks volumes.


What about the swipe you took at me? Pot... Kettle


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Lauren5159 said:


> What about the swipe you took at me? Pot... Kettle


There was no swipe at you. I simply and politely replied to you . But in your posts, you tried to belittle me, but I didn't whinge, bite or rise to it. Your "get me" (endlessly implying I am thick) and other talking down to me terms, I let wash over me.

It is all there for members to see, and make up their own mind.

Again, no bickering please, keep it on topic.

I am a YES, you are a NO, such is life.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> There was no swipe at you. I simply and politely replied to you . But in your posts, you tried to belittle me, but I didn't whinge, bite or rise to it. Your "get me" (endlessly implying I am thick) and other talking down to me terms, I let wash over me.
> 
> It is all there for members to see, and make up their own mind.
> 
> ...


Lol, only because you didn't catch on to what I was trying to say... You replied to my first post "what is wrong with calling yourself Scottish"? When I blatantly said that I felt no more Scottish than I felt English... You clearly didn't take in what I was saying and read only what you wanted to read...

Scotland, Scotland, Scotland... You obviously didn't pay attention to what I was actually saying, judging by your first reply.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Lauren5159 said:


> Lol, only because you didn't catch on to what I was trying to say... You replied to my first post "what is wrong with calling yourself Scottish"? When I blatantly said that I felt no more Scottish than I felt English... You clearly didn't take in what I was saying and read only what you wanted to read...
> 
> Scotland, Scotland, Scotland... You obviously didn't pay attention to what I was actually saying, judging by your first reply.


I did listen to you, and understood your post. Hence I replied about your passport fears. You made it quite clear you felt "British" not Scottish, which is your individual right, so I felt no need to bash on about that point and accepted it. Yet you keep making out I do not understand???

I am not insulting your intelligence, so please stop making out I am thick and not paying attention.

It probably looks like I am brow beating, as I am trying to reply to most posts on here, if an important point is raised. I am on my own here, as a YES voter at the moment, so it probably looks bad that I am the only one fighting the YES corner??


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I did listen to you, and understood your post. Hence I replied about your passport fears. You made it quite clear you felt "British" not Scottish, which is your individual right, so I felt no need to bash on about that point and accepted it. Yet you keep making out I do not understand???
> 
> I am not insulting your intelligence, so please stop making out I am thick and not paying attention.
> 
> It probably looks like I am brow beating, as I am trying to reply to most posts on here, if an important point is raised. I am on my own here, as a YES voter at the moment, so it probably looks bad that I am the only one fighting the YES corner??


At what point did I mention passport fears?


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Lauren5159 said:


> I'm a no vote.
> 
> I'm also half and half, in the sense that my mum is Scottish, my dad is English (but grew up in Scotland)... I'm a Pad Brat, born in BMH munster and my passport says British. I speak with an English accent but have grown up and lived all over the UK.
> 
> I call myself British and I want to keep it that way. My life has been the British Army and I was born on British soil abroad. If Scotland got independence, what would I call myself





BelindaCarlisle said:


> I know people with British Army connections, or Rangers fan are nearly always NO
> 
> What is wrong with being referred to as Scottish??? You can have a dual nationality passport  Problem solved!
> 
> Canada and America/Britain have a great relationship. Them getting Independence has been a great thing! They have went from strength to strength. And their financial model is held up to world as a fine example. That could be Scotland also.....





Lauren5159 said:


> At what point did I mention passport fears?


Well, passport and nationality issue.

Your post 27, my reply post 29.

On second looking, it looks like it is what your nationality will be that is your main concern, if Independence happens.

Sorry! I am but one person, and many posts posted in opposition to my view to remember.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I am encouraging others to debate this issue, but people are just trying to turn it personal, trying to get a rise out of me by being directly rude, instead of being on topic. As your post above demonstrates that beautifully!
> 
> It is crazy, since my posting about Cliff Richard a few weeks ago, certain members (including you) have followed me around the forum, quoting my posts and trying to make me look bad at every turn.
> 
> ...


Could you just explain what is the deal with you being the Forum Police?

You can't tell people where they may post and what they can say. None of us can.

And, by the way, I do not "follow" you around the forum at all.

You really need to get over yourself.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Well that was interesting! 

Apparently, if the vote for Independence doesn't go through, it's because all those people living in Scotland (some of whom aren't Scottish) aren't passionate enough about being Scottish. It's nothing to do with people actually researching and making their own mind up as to whether it would be beneficial, or not, to be independent. 

And before I get accused of skewing the poll, I haven't touched it.


----------



## Nitas mum (Jan 17, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I am encouraging others to debate this issue, but people are just trying to turn it personal, trying to get a rise out of me by being directly rude, instead of being on topic. As your post above demonstrates that beautifully!
> 
> It is crazy, since my posting about Cliff Richard a few weeks ago, certain members (including you) have followed me around the forum, quoting my posts and trying to make me look bad at every turn.
> 
> ...


I haven't followed you round the forum - I've just read this thread as I thought it might be interesting and offer some insight to the matter.

The whole thing is just slightly skewed by your tone and manner of replying to people. If you're involved with the campaign at all, then I'd reevaluate your way of trying to persuade people to vote yes, otherwise you're going to end up turning them in the opposite direction.

It is possible to be passionate about something without being rude and blind to other people's valid questions or points of view.

I'm English - was tempted to vote in the poll, but I refrained


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Well that was interesting!
> 
> Apparently, if the vote for Independence doesn't go through, it's because all those people living in Scotland (some of whom aren't Scottish) aren't passionate enough about being Scottish. It's nothing to do with people actually researching and making their own mind up as to whether it would be beneficial, or not, to be independent.
> 
> And before I get accused of skewing the poll, I haven't touched it.


Maybe as the poll is only for Scottish voters, then so should the referendum and only Scottish people be allowed to participate? that means my vote wouldn't count seeing as I am English.?...or I wouldn't be allowed to vote?

But then...what determines Scottish? My grandchildren were born here to English parents.....hmmmm.

How much time energy and money is being chucked at this referendum stuff when it could be so easily channeled into far more worthwhile stuff? One govt person stated about food banks and the like and child poverty....wouldn't it be better to sort stuff like that out and then maybe ask if there could be a vote?

but, maybe Scottish poverty will be totally eradicated once Independence is about?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

My impression, when it comes down to it Scotland could probably go it alone in the short term.. until something happens in the world unexpected. Something like the banking crisis as a simple example. That's not to say being alone would mean the keeping of the system as it stands in terms of benefits etc, the things being marketing as examples of why independence is a good idea. If it doesn't work out the more finiancially able will simply move out.

The yes vote is based on suppositions and a push for people to use emotions, not facts.. If we can retain the pound, if we can join the EU, if firms don't leave.. People are supposed to make a decision based on these as though they are facts. This, for a one way decision not just for them but for future generations.

So tell me.. why should the rest of UK allow Scotland to use and have influence on the pound when you want independance? Independance means being independant doesn't it? Didn't the UK government bail out the scottish banks which are far too large for scotland to support on their own? Westminster doesn't control the Bank of England. The Bank of England itself has said scottish independance and joint pound are mutually exclusive based on financial reasoning, not politics.

EU.. not clear cut either and not just talking about the euro. As said previously, politicians, especially the spanish, will not want to encourage potential sucession of their own. Legally Scotland may be able to declare membership (although that's not 100%) but when you start putting in politicians and the effects and fear caused by the need to bailout Greece and place them into the equation it starts getting even more unknown.

Personally I would be pushing for more control over policy, not independance. With the bitter taste the referendum is causing on both sides of the border, this will be harder to do. English = Welsh = Scottish = Irish = stubborn and unforgiving. Do you think the rest of the UK will not be as resentful as the Scottish would be if the position were reversed?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

lilythepink said:


> Maybe as the poll is only for Scottish voters, then so should the referendum and only Scottish people be allowed to participate? that means my vote wouldn't count seeing as I am English.?...or I wouldn't be allowed to vote?
> 
> But then...what determines Scottish? My grandchildren were born here to English parents.....hmmmm.
> 
> ...


My mother was born in England but to parents who were both from Scotland. So maybe I could have half a vote 

Not that it matters anyway as I'm adopted, so haven't a clue where I'm from in any case, maybe I could just pretend to be Scottish, I like haggis and whisky!


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> My mother was born in England but to parents who were both from Scotland. So maybe I could have half a vote
> 
> Not that it matters anyway as I'm adopted, so haven't a clue where I'm from in any case, maybe I could just pretend to be Scottish, I like haggis and whisky!


I'm not Scottish either, but I did once date a man who had a Westie, with a tartan collar.

Does that count?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Sweety said:


> I'm not Scottish either, but I did once date a man who had a Westie, with a tartan collar.
> 
> Does that count?


Well obviously, but only if the Westie barked with a Scottish accent


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Goblin said:


> My impression, when it comes down to it Scotland could probably go it alone in the short term.. until something happens in the world unexpected. Something like the banking crisis as a simple example. That's not to say being alone would mean the keeping of the system as it stands in terms of benefits etc, the things being marketing as examples of why independence is a good idea. If it doesn't work out the more finiancially able will simply move out.
> 
> The yes vote is based on suppositions and a push for people to use emotions, not facts.. If we can retain the pound, if we can join the EU, if firms don't leave.. People are supposed to make a decision based on these as though they are facts. This, for a one way decision not just for them but for future generations.
> 
> ...


The £ was Scotland's first, we were the first to have an official "currency" in the UK. The £ was first used in and created in Scotland in the 13th centuary. The English then adopted it.  Personally, I think we would be better with a new currency, for all the reasons you point out!  But not keeping the £ would be a vote loser unfortunately.

Secondly, the reason so much is up in the air, and some "what if's" hanging around is that Westminster is refusing to sit at the table and negotiate. They have always told Alex they would wait until after the Independence vote to negotiate terms. And that was because they took it for granted Scotland would not vote YES. But the tide is turning, and they are getting "feart" and Project Fear is in over drive now.

Actually, the SNP and Alex Salmond did not want the Independence vote to happen so soon. It was Mr Cameron that gave us it, and he gambled on the fact Scotland wasn't ready, and neither was the SNP. But he was wrong with his gamble.

BUT the Scottish people aren't daft, and all the polls are showing the YES camp are gaining votes, and the NO's now losing their majority as the FACTS do come out. There are facts, not all the debate is on what if's and opinions. 

I thank you Goblin for posting, and keeping this thread on track and on topic.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

I voted no in your poll because I think it would be a bad thing if Scotland gained their independence.
For a start we would have to change all the maps in all the atlases and the new ones would have to indicate 'Divided Kingdom' because that's exactly what it would be or 'Not So Great Britain' because it would not as great as it used to be.

I also think changing titles might not be so productive to industry either.

For example, an exported product with 'Made in the not so great Britain' or 'Made in the divided kingdom' might influence a prospective buyer to buy a similar less inferior product that was manufactured by workers in China or Japan.

Just a couple of my random thoughts really because I have nothing against Scottish people.

They make really nice Dundee cakes and shortbread.:001_smile:


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Zaros said:


> I voted no in your poll because I think it would be a bad thing if Scotland gained their independence.
> For a start we would have to change all the maps in all the atlases and the new ones would have to indicate 'Divided Kingdom' because that's exactly what it would be or 'Not So Great Britain' because it would not as great as it used to be.
> 
> I also think changing titles might not be so productive to industry either.
> ...


It will still be a United Kingdom, as England, Wales, and Ireland 

Until of course the Welsh also get their Independence, then the rest of Ireland!


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> My mother was born in England but to parents who were both from Scotland. So maybe I could have half a vote
> 
> Not that it matters anyway as I'm adopted, so haven't a clue where I'm from in any case, maybe I could just pretend to be Scottish, I like haggis and whisky!


well....

then by my reckoning maybe we could share a vote seeing as you have parentage and I live here?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

lilythepink said:


> well....
> 
> then by my reckoning maybe we could share a vote seeing as you have parentage and I live here?


Well that sounds like a sensible idea! And it just so happens that I agree with how you're voting as well


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Zaros said:


> I voted no in your poll because I think it would be a bad thing if Scotland gained their independence.
> For a start we would have to change all the maps in all the atlases and the new ones would have to indicate 'Divided Kingdom' because that's exactly what it would be or 'Not So Great Britain' because it would not as great as it used to be.
> 
> I also think changing titles might not be so productive to industry either.
> ...


HMmmmmmm. I make a really good Dundee cake and my shortbread is the best.lol


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> It will still be a United Kingdom, as England, Wales, and Ireland
> 
> Until of course the Welsh also get their Independence, then the rest of Ireland!


Oh.

I wonder then if 'Made In The Disunited Kingdom' might be more appropriate?


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## Mirx3 (Jun 20, 2013)

I don't know all the ins and outs, nor have I read every comment.... but I feel like this is going to turn out like Northern Ireland. Divided sides within its own country, people enraged with hate and constantly battling each other. 



That is just my opinion on it


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Well obviously, but only if the Westie barked with a Scottish accent


How uncanny and strange that you should mention that.

He used to howl at any programme involving the Celebrity Chef, Nick Nairn, and the howl sounded eerily like "Och aye, the noo".


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

baaaaa humbug, off to do the garden and ponder my Scottishness, or lack of it.


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Mirx3 said:


> I don't know all the ins and outs, nor have I read every comment.... but I feel like this is going to turn out like Northern Ireland. Divided sides within its own country, people enraged with hate and constantly battling each other.
> 
> That is just my opinion on it


Canada and America get along just fine. So do the people of Canada with each other, and Norway are doing very nicely to, after Indepenence.

But I agree with you to a degree, it is causing A LOT of horrible debate in Scotland between the NO and Yes camp. The fall outs on Social Media between friends and family is shocking  There will always be the few, that ruin it for the many, sadly. But funnily enough people are more polite about it face to face. Just the same old story of keyboard warriors. But out on the streets, there is no bad feeling, thankfully!


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Mirx3 said:


> I don't know all the ins and outs, nor have I read every comment.... but I feel like this is going to turn out like Northern Ireland. Divided sides within its own country, people enraged with hate and constantly battling each other.
> 
> That is just my opinion on it


I would hope not. There are some bigots here of course but generally speaking people get on well


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> The £ was Scotland's first, we were the first to have an official "currency" in the UK.


First official currency was used way before the 13th century.

Once again your post screams nationalism, not facts.


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> I would hope not. There are some bigots here of course but generally speaking people get on well


There are bigots in Scotland, just as there are bigots in England. But I agree, people here in Scotland are getting on well, and dealing with the debate admirably, on the whole.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Goblin said:


> First official currency was used way before the 13th century.
> 
> Once again your post screams nationalism, not facts.


The £ was started in Scotland in the 13th centuary, as the OFFICIAL currency. To rid the other currencies that were being used to barter. The idea was to have a universal one.

Which of course happened, even the English adopted it!  But as usual claimed it as THEIRS! Just as they did with the Commonwealth games :lol: 

You use the word Nationalist like it's a slur? I am proud to be one.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Goblin said:


> First official currency was used way before the 13th century.
> 
> Once again your post screams nationalism, not facts.


I was going to post this so thank you, its actually 1200 years old and is Ango Saxon in origin I believe.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> The £ was started in Scotland in the 13th centuary, as the OFFICIAL currency. To rid the other currencies that were being used to barter. The idea was to have a universal one.
> 
> Which of course happened, even the English adopted it!  But as usual claimed it as THEIRS! Just as they did with the Commonwealth games :lol:
> 
> You use the word Nationalist like it's a slur? I am proud to be one.


^^^^^

this is why there is such trouble.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Bellaboo1 said:


> I was going to post this so thank you, its actually 1200 years old and is Ango Saxon in origin I believe.


I believe that was sterling?

The pound and sterling, were combined to create Pound Sterling? Before that they were two separate currencies.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> I would hope not. There are some* bigots* here of course but generally speaking people get on well





lilythepink said:


> ^^^^^
> 
> this is why there is such trouble.





lilythepink said:


> Scotland is a beautiful place...so is England. Don't let *a few muppets *put you off.....I am glad we moved here and if I had the time again, would have moved here much sooner. I will be moving again, and it will be back to England.
> 
> Scotland has everything we wanted. Peaceful, quiet, lovely beaches. Its not perfect, but then where is?


And your talk of bigots and muppets is okay?

I could have quoted many of your trouble making posts, and bolded bits. But I do not sit and nit pick at members posts. 

Rise above, as my Mummy always told me.  The bad un's will show face by their actions. And this thread is a prime example.

I am one Scot, residing in Scotland debating with MANY English and NO voters this afternoon, it was never gonna look good for me. The other members that hold the same view probably wisely avoided the thread, knowing the pattern that occurs on this forum


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> There are bigots in Scotland, just as there are bigots in England. But I agree, people here in Scotland are getting on well, and dealing with the debate admirably, on the whole.


 It's okay for you to mention bigots but not Lilythepink?


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Sweety said:


> It's okay for you to mention bigots but not Lilythepink?


I like hypocrisy it entitles me to practice what I tell you you're not allowed to practice.

I like a world tailored in my favour:wink:


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

don't worry about it......back to the ignore button.


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

I just want to add, it is very hard to be the only voice (this afternoon) debating against many. It is very hard work, and I have tried to be fair. Whilst still posting about something I am passionate about.

I thank those members who posted and kept on topic, that includes all YES's and NO's. But I need to log off cos I feel closed in on (a natural feeling I think you will agree in a situation like this).

I bid you all a good afternoon. I may come back to the thread later, when my batteries are recharged. But no promises mind lol. I am shattered, and my wee wrists are sore from all the typing!  x


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> The £ was started in Scotland in the 13th centuary, as the OFFICIAL currency. To rid the other currencies that were being used to barter. The idea was to have a universal one.
> 
> Which of course happened, even the English adopted it!  But as usual claimed it as THEIRS! Just as they did with the Commonwealth games :lol:
> 
> You use the word Nationalist like it's a slur? I am proud to be one.


So.. what makes an official currency? Surely having a legal structure of specific mints manufacturing legal coins makes an official currency. This happened before your 13th Century.

Nationalist as in proud to be a member of a country and contribute positively to that society whilst still being open to new ideas and change is a compliment. Nationalism when it justifies anything, superceding facts is negative and has been the justification and reasoning for some very bad decisions throughout history.


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Sweety said:


> It's okay for you to mention bigots but not Lilythepink?


That was in reply to Lily calling SOME people in Scotland bigots. Talk about twisting it. Tut tut!

I have had pm's regarding you, and I have been told you love to stir, twist and send threads off topic when you dislike certain members. Hence my ignoring the majority of your posts, and reporting some. 

Now I am off to enjoy the sunshine, a rarity in Scotland.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

I haven't lived in Scotland for over 25yrs but consider myself Scottish to the core and very proud of the fact too.

When the Independance topic first arose, I had no opinion due to my years away. Over the ensuing months, however, I have heard many arguments and discussions on both sides.

I have also heard Westimster 'telling' Scotland how and when they must vote, including the manner in which the question was put to the country.

I have then heard countless 'famous people' - including Obama, David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Judi Dench - TELLING Scotland they must vote no.

Maybe if people had stopped TELLING Scotland what to do over the years, there would be no need for this action.

I have then heard countless English people saying how much of a drain Scotland is on the ENGLISH economy - excuse me, but the vote hasn't been taken yet so it is still the UK economy at this time.

Hearing all of this, over the months, has turned this 'didn't have a opinion either way' Scot into one who would now take great pleasure in voting YES if I was able to do so. 

The amount of vitriol I have read against Scotland makes me wonder why England is so keen to keep us????


.


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> I would hope not. There are some bigots here of course but generally speaking people get on well





BelindaCarlisle said:


> There are bigots in Scotland, just as there are bigots in England. But I agree, people here in Scotland are getting on well, and dealing with the debate admirably, on the whole.





Zaros said:


> I like hypocrisy it entitles me to practice what I tell you you're not allowed to practice.
> 
> I like a world tailored in my favour:wink:


My mentioning of bigots (not a word I use) was in reply to Lily's use of the word. I was polite in the light of her many slurs. The posts are all there for members to see.

Twisting mine and other members posts, seems to be a full time sport for some!

Now you and others got by Gary Busey thread closed, by using it to take pots shots, are you trying to do the same here?


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Hearing all of this, over the months, has turned this 'didn't have a opinion either way' Scot into one who would now take great pleasure in voting YES if I was able to do so.


Which I can understand.. stubborn  Are emotions the right thing to decide the future of Scotland for future generations on though?



> The amount of vitriol I have read against Scotland makes me wonder why England is so keen to keep us????


If the Scots are allowed to be emotional, why can't the English? Betrayal isn't a nice thing which is how a lot of people view it.

Pass or fail, the referendum will have negative, not positive effects.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> * The posts are all there for members to see
> *
> Now you and others got by Gary Busey thread closed, by using it to take pots shots, are you trying to do the same here?


In evidence I did not get your GB thread closed I simply addressed the insult and your support of it.

The posts are there for members to see. :001_smile:


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

MoggyBaby said:


> I haven't lived in Scotland for over 25yrs but consider myself Scottish to the core and very proud of the fact too.
> 
> When the Independance topic first arose, I had no opinion due to my years away. Over the ensuing months, however, I have heard many arguments and discussions on both sides.
> 
> ...


I had to come back, after your amazing post Moggybaby
(you worded my feelings exactly, and much better than I).

The bit in bold, is my exact feelings also, and which this thread has sadly confirmed.

I love your signature, absolutely gorgeous <3 The wee cat is running around like a headless chicken, exactly how I felt today on this thread. :lol:

Have a lovely day! I bow to your posting skills. Very succinct!


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Zaros said:


> In evidence I did not get your GB thread closed I simply addressed the insult and your support of it.
> 
> The posts are there for members to see. :001_smile:


People (including you) are all too happy to "like" all the insults aimed at me?

I have only "liked" one that was slightly unkind, I liked it because he summed up how hostile this forum is to new arrivals. No other forum acts like that! Yes he was a bit rude in his delivery, I agree. It says a lot that members have ALL my posts AND LIKES under close scrutiny, and pounce on any little thing like a "like". Speaks volumes to those members mind set, and aims.

You seem to sit on a forum throne, and all your MANY snide and unkind comments all over the forum are "liked" by many.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> You seem to sit on a forum throne, and all your MANY snide and unkind comments all over the forum are "liked" by many.


Good grief! Your reality is even more twisted than mine. :laugh:


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> People (including you) are all too happy to "like" all the insults aimed at me?
> 
> I have only "liked" one that was slightly unkind, I liked it because he summed up how hostile this forum is to new arrivals. No other forum acts like that! Yes he was a bit rude in his delivery, I agree. It says a lot that members have ALL my posts AND LIKES under close scrutiny, and pounce on any little thing like a "like". Speaks volumes to those members mind set, and aims.
> 
> You seem to sit on a forum throne, and all your MANY snide and unkind comments all over the forum are "liked" by many.


There is a good reason why Zaros' posts attract many likes.

You see them as "snide and unkind". That's your perspective.

Many others see them as witty and entertaining.

Is it possible that the humour may be escaping you?


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> People (including you) are all too happy to "like" all the insults aimed at me?
> 
> I have only "liked" one that was slightly unkind, I liked it because he summed up how hostile this forum is to new arrivals. No other forum acts like that! Yes he was a bit rude in his delivery, I agree. It says a lot that members have ALL my posts AND LIKES under close scrutiny, and pounce on any little thing like a "like". Speaks volumes to those members mind set, and aims.
> 
> You seem to sit on a forum throne, and all your MANY snide and unkind comments all over the forum are "liked" by many.


There is a reason Zaros gets so many 'likes' - he is a likeable bloke.

He is witty, entertaining, and most of his posts are said with his tongue firmly in his cheek.

You posts, on the other hand, are rude and brow beating. You do NOT have a right to tell anyone what polls they can vote on and what threads they can post on, and what they must say when they do post on threads.

Why can only Scottish people vote in your poll anyway? If Scotland gets its independence it will affect English people too.

You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you hates Scotland and all Scottish people. That, in my opinion, is your biggest failing on this thread.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

MoggyBaby said:


> I haven't lived in Scotland for over 25yrs but consider myself Scottish to the core and very proud of the fact too.
> 
> When the Independance topic first arose, I had no opinion due to my years away. Over the ensuing months, however, I have heard many arguments and discussions on both sides.
> 
> ...


whatever happens and whoever gets to hold the purse strings, it will still rain or shine tomorrow.

It will be interesting to see just how it goes either way. If its No, can't see much changing, if its yes, its the fear of the unknown for many.

The sad thing I hear when I am out and about is Scotlands decline because of the English govt and then they go back a few hundred years and my history was never very good.


----------



## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Just for the record I actually love Scotland, thats why we looking at houses and thinking of retiring there. It will always be my holiday place of choice beating any destination abroad. Thats why I would hate to see the UK broken up and for us to become separate countries again. What on earth would James 1 say 

Belinda most of the disagreements on this thread are not actually about the Scottish Referendum but about how you speak to people. We don't all have to agree about everything but respect is a two way street, if you show it then you will receive it


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

If people want to post on a public forum that is their choice. Whether they stay on topic is their choice. Please keep this civil or it will be closed.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

newfiesmum said:


> If people want to post on a public forum that is their choice. Whether they stay on topic is their choice. Please keep this civil or it will be closed.


I am pretty sure I saw a mod tell people off for not staying on topic on another thread. And that forum rules state, off topic comments will be potentially removed. Hence my keeping asking for my thread to be kept on topic, and not used as a stick to hit me with personal comments and name calling. Just like what happened with my Gary Busey thread. I did not want a repeat situation!!


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> Just for the record I actually love Scotland, thats why we looking at houses and thinking of retiring there. It will always be my holiday place of choice beating any destination abroad. Thats why I would hate to see the UK broken up and for us to become separate countries again. *What on earth would James 1 say*
> 
> Belinda most of the disagreements on this thread are not actually about the Scottish Referendum but about how you speak to people. We don't all have to agree about everything but respect is a two way street, if you show it then you will receive it


James the Sixth of Scotland and the First of England only came onto the English throne by default due to Lizzie 1 not having any sprogs. He was removed from his Scottish mother at a very early age and brought up in England by the English and heard constant derisive tales of Scotland. As such, he grow up with an almost pathalogical hatred of his homeland and started to put into place the amalgamation of the 2 countries.

So, as such, any opinion he may have would be rather skewed. 

.


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> I haven't lived in Scotland for over 25yrs but consider myself Scottish to the core and very proud of the fact too.
> 
> When the Independance topic first arose, I had no opinion due to my years away. Over the ensuing months, however, I have heard many arguments and discussions on both sides.
> 
> ...


Couldn't care less quite frankly on either score yes or no, but given your comments I expect you will be moving back to Scotland ? Along with all the other yes Scots voters living in England !!!


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Couldn't care less quite frankly on either score yes or no, but given your comments I expect you will be moving back to Scotland ? Along with all the other yes Scots voters living in England !!!


And if you knew ANYTHING about it all you'd know that only those living in Scotland get to vote!!!


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

And just to add these are the sorts of comments I am dealing (highlighted in purple) with on red rep and vistor messages, yet it is myself being dug up, gutted.

"ime you grew up...pity you can't give a good post thats your own. everything you whine about I heard already on the radio. so boring

and

always have to have the last word...that's called childish. I am thinking you have many more problems apart from being rude ignorant and stupid....you are going back on ignore. I try to be open minded....no point with somebody like you.don't contact me again....you have nothing to say that I could ever find interesting.another post was so right about you....you will sway the votes with your stupid attitude and put decent Scottish people off voting."

No wonder new members are scared to post, and get chased of....


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> And just to add these are the sorts of comments I am dealing (highlighted in purple) with on red rep and vistor messages, yet it is myself being dug up, gutted.
> 
> "ime you grew up...pity you can't give a good post thats your own. everything you whine about I heard already on the radio. so boring
> 
> ...


I posted this to Belinda if anybody was wondering...cos I am sick of her childish and rude comments
please feel free to go and read the rubbish she posted on my visitor messages.


----------



## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Another closed thread coming up very soon! Stay tuned folks...


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> And if you knew ANYTHING about it all you'd know that only those living in Scotland get to vote!!!


And... If Scotlands so great and your proud to be Scottish how comes your living in England ! That's my point, if Englands so bad go back to Scotland


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

BC now on ignore list....so now more comments from me at all. so sorry to the rest of the forum about this


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Bellaboo1 said:


> And... If Scotlands so great and your proud to be Scottish how comes your living in England ! That's my point


Scotland is great...I am English and proud of it and living in Scotland. Not that England is not great too....moved here for peace and tranquility. Have English and Scottish neighbours and even have 1 welsh one.and come bonfire night we will all be here, round my bonfire, drinking plenty beer and eating plenty traditional food....tatty ash, treacle toffee and haggis


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

lilythepink said:


> I posted this to Belinda if anybody was wondering...cos I am sick of her childish and rude comments
> please feel free to go and read the rubbish she posted on my visitor messages.


At least my comments were polite to you. And they were in reply to your very unkind comment on the red rep you gave me. People will see I remained civilised, unlike your comments.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Megan345 said:


> Another closed thread coming up very soon! Stay tuned folks...


Hopefully not, hence my TRYING and begging for people to keep it on topic.


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> And... If Scotlands so great and your proud to be Scottish how comes your living in England ! That's my point, if Englands so bad go back to Scotland


Seriously.................. is THAT really the best you can come up with???

Thank you for the perfect example of the uninformed, xenophobic comments being directed at all Scots living 'abroad' in the run up to this vote. 

.


----------



## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Bellaboo1 said:


> And... If Scotlands so great and your proud to be Scottish how comes your living in England ! That's my point, if Englands so bad go back to Scotland


Blimey thats a bit nasty,nowt to do with us why Mogs lives in England.


----------



## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

To be fair BC, you have been quite forward and rude with your posts.

If people disagree, you becone rude and extremely sarcastic. Perhaps you don't realise you are doing it but you do it often.

If you weren't rude then I would agree that people are being rude to you. But if you give it first, people won't tolerate it.

I find it sad you have this attitude. Last time there was a thread like this, I commented and per one member who seemed a bit pissy, everyone was happy in replying and being friendly, though they may have disagreed.

You should have put 'No English, etc, please' but then people have the right to comment. 


You will get a lot more serious replies and discussions and people interested in what you have to say if you aren't so rude all the time.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> Scotland is great...I am English and proud of it and living in Scotland. Not that England is not great too....moved here for peace and tranquility. Have English and Scottish neighbours and even have 1 welsh one.and come bonfire night we will all be here, round my bonfire, drinking plenty beer and eating plenty traditional food....tatty ash, treacle toffee and haggis


Thank you for being a voice of reason LP!

I enjoy living in England, I get on well with the natives (  ) and, over the years, made a good life here and even married an Englishman. That does not mean I should forget or deny my roots. The country I grew up shaped the person I have become and I reckon she is pretty ok as it happens and England currently gets the benefit of that. :lol:

.


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

MoggyBaby said:


> Seriously.................. is THAT really the best you can come up with???
> 
> Thank you for the perfect example of the uninformed, xenophobic comments being directed at all Scots living 'abroad' in the run up to this vote.
> 
> .





suewhite said:


> Blimey thats a bit nasty,nowt to do with us why Mogs lives in England.


100% agree, with both posts!


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> Scotland is great...I am English and proud of it and living in Scotland. Not that England is not great too....moved here for peace and tranquility. Have English and Scottish neighbours and even have 1 welsh one.and come bonfire night we will all be here, round my bonfire, drinking plenty beer and eating plenty traditional food....tatty ash, treacle toffee and haggis


Yes and that's my point, its become very nationalist. I have Scottish blood on my fathers side so I have and have no issue with scotland. But I do take issue with someone who's scottish that's been living in england for years coming on here slating the country they live in, be it scotlland, england or wherever.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Bellaboo1 said:


> And... If Scotlands so great and your proud to be Scottish how comes your living in England ! That's my point, if Englands so bad go back to Scotland


Where was that even said??

Good grief.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> My mother was born in England but to parents who were both from Scotland. So maybe I could have half a vote
> 
> Not that it matters anyway as I'm adopted, so haven't a clue where I'm from in any case, maybe I could just pretend to be Scottish, I like haggis and whisky!


 Both my parents were English.....makes me a mongrel me thinks!.lol.anyhoo sleeping lion us scots have went upmarket now..deep fried mars bar and buckfast in a can...no more swigging outa bottles for us!


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

suewhite said:


> Blimey thats a bit nasty,nowt to do with us why Mogs lives in England.


Please I don't care why live in england, why come on here and say you hate somewhere you live when you don't come from there, if you don't like it don't stay !


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Blackcats said:


> To be fair BC, you have been quite forward and rude with your posts.
> 
> If people disagree, you becone rude and extremely sarcastic. Perhaps you don't realise you are doing it but you do it often.
> 
> ...


Wow!

I have read this thread thread again, and my posts are fine. But by contrast I have had to put up with a barrage of off topic slurs to myself and posting style (weak cheap jab, that is untrue). *And your post is the same, off topic and used to make a personal jab at me, rather than the topic at hand.*

It seems all those that are directing vitriol on this thread (stealing moggy's word, love it) towards me are the same ones STILL holding a grudge since I outted Sir Cliff a few weeks ago on another thread. Surely members can leave their disagreements on one thread, and start afresh on another? Otherwise that is really petty, and not a forum I want to belong to.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Blackcats said:


> Where was that even said??
> 
> Good grief.


Agood grief I suggest you read the post !


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Yes and that's my point, its become very nationalist. I have Scottish blood on my fathers side so I have and have no issue with scotland. But I do take issue with someone who's scottish that's been living in england for years coming on here slating the country they live in, be it scotlland, england or wherever.


Again, where? Because I haven't seen it.

You know you can live in a country and find faults within it. Bit harsh to then say leave.

There are things I hate about England. Am I meant to go because of it.

If I moved somewhere else, my true home would always be favoured the most no matter what.

Tbh, I don't really know what you are saying.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2014)

This time next week my youngest son will be living there. Can i come and play?


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Agood grief I suggest you read the post !


I have actually.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Seriously.................. is THAT really the best you can come up with???
> 
> Thank you for the perfect example of the uninformed, xenophobic comments being directed at all Scots living 'abroad' in the run up to this vote.
> 
> .


Zenophobic I suggest you take a look at yourself


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

jon bda said:


> This time next week my youngest son will be living there. Can i come and play?


Only if you play nicely!


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Wow!
> 
> I have read this thread thread again, and my posts are fine. But by contrast I have had to put up with a barrage of off topic slurs to myself and posting style (weak cheap jab, that is untrue). *And your post is the same, off topic and used to make a personal jab at me, rather than the topic at hand.*
> 
> It seems all those that are directing vitriol on this thread (stealing moggy's word, love it) towards me are the same ones STILL holding a grudge since I outted Sir Cliff a few weeks ago on another thread. Surely members can leave their disagreements on one thread, and start afresh on another? Otherwise that is really petty, and not a forum I want to belong to.


Really? I am making a personal comment, yet you Post a discussion outside of this thread on here for all to see to make a member look bad and get people on your side to cause an argument.

Get over yourself.


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Blackcats said:


> Really? I am making a personal comment, yet you Post a discussion outside of this thread on here for all to see to make a member look bad and get people on your side to cause an argument.
> 
> Get over yourself.


That member crossed the line, so I outed her. Been putting up with her nasty comments all day, even a lady like me has to say enough is enough. But I still didn't resort to name calling and rudeness.

I read you blog, link on your profile. Therefore I will let you off with your rudeness and stirring up of even more bad feeling, I am kind that way. I hope you are on the road to recovery.


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> I haven't lived in Scotland for over 25yrs but consider myself Scottish to the core and very proud of the fact too.
> 
> When the Independance topic first arose, I had no opinion due to my years away. Over the ensuing months, however, I have heard many arguments and discussions on both sides.
> 
> ...


So this is not in any way inflammatory ??


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Yes and that's my point, its become very nationalist. I have Scottish blood on my fathers side so I have and have no issue with scotland. But I do take issue with someone who's scottish that's been living in england for years coming on here slating the country they live in, be it scotlland, england or wherever.


Show me where I said I 'hated living in England'.....!!!!

I didn't so good luck with that one!!

I said I did not like how all and sundry were TELLING the Scots how they should vote instead of leaving them to make their own decisions. I said I didn't like the vitriolic comments being made to Scots in England since the topic of this vote came up.

YOU contributed a prime example of those comments and all because that is what YOUR xenophobic opinion chose to interpret.

.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> That member crossed the line, so I outed her. Been putting up with her nasty comments all day, even a lady like me has to say enough is enough. But I still didn't resort to name calling and rudeness.
> 
> I read you blog, link on your profile. Therefore I will let you off with your rudeness and stirring up of even more bad feeling, I am kind that way. I hope you are on the road to recovery.


Hypocritical regardless. You clearly are a sly stirrer.

But, Hey, carry on. Keep Thinking everyone on this forum is in the wrong and out to get you.

There was a member like this on here a few days ago. They got banned.

Have fun while it lasts.


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> So this is not in any way inflammatory ??


Only to you it would seem!


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

MoggyBaby said:


> Show me where I said I 'hated living in England'.....!!!!
> 
> I didn't so good luck with that one!!
> 
> ...


Moggy it is futile, I have learned in my short stay here, people will read what they want into posts. And will justify off topic rudeness, backed by many who will *like* their posts.

You have posted fantastically and in a balanced way, so any criticism you are getting is unjustified in my opinion! :001_wub:


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Zaros said:


> Good grief! Your reality is even more twisted than mine. :laugh:


Now that's he biggest load of [email protected] I've read today 


BelindaCarlisle said:


> And just to add these are the sorts of comments I am dealing (highlighted in purple) with on red rep and vistor messages, yet it is myself being dug up, gutted.
> 
> No wonder new members are scared to post, and get chased of....


But we were all new at some point, we didn't just all appear at once.

For what it's worth (which is nothing at all) but as you drive into Dumfries they have an awesome bus shelter with a very large rhino on top.


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Show me where I said I 'hated living in England'.....!!!!
> 
> I didn't so good luck with that one!!
> 
> ...


Please point out where in my post I mentioned you saying you hated england ? I just knew the old xenophobic/racist whatever card would come out somewhere, that old chestnut.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Blackcats said:


> Hypocritical regardless. You clearly are a sly stirrer.
> 
> But, Hey, carry on. Keep Thinking everyone on this forum is in the wrong and out to get you.
> 
> ...


Someone messaged me to say you were also picked on really badly when you first joined, you should understand and empathize how it feels to be the one/new voice against many?

You are clearly outspoken, and so am I, that should not be a reason to ban someone?

The person I saw banned was encouraging people to kill cats, and the other was over the top with his rudeness, I am none of those things. I am just passionate about an Independent Scotland and not a fan of paedo Sir Cliff.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Well I was finding it quite interesting reading what I did'nt know about Scotland,why we have to have all the mud slinging I dont know just use the ignore button, people get personal then the thread gets closed.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Moggy it is futile, I have learned in my short stay here, people will read what they want into posts. And will justify off topic rudeness, backed by many who will *like* their posts.
> 
> You have posted fantastically and in a balanced way, so any criticism you are getting is unjustified in my opinion! :001_wub:


Omg nothing to do with you being scottish then lol. Off topic ? How's it off topic I didn't instigate this "debate" don't post inflammatory remarks if you don't want reponses !


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> *Please point out where in my post I mentioned you saying you hated england ?* I just knew the old xenophobic/racist whatever card would come out somewhere, that old chestnut.


Er........ here......!!!!! 



Bellaboo1 said:


> Yes and that's my point, its become very nationalist. I have Scottish blood on my fathers side so I have and have no issue with scotland. *But I do take issue with someone who's scottish that's been living in england for years coming on here slating the country they live in,* be it scotlland, england or wherever.


.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Flamingoes said:


> Now that's he biggest load of [email protected] I've read today
> 
> But we were all new at some point, we didn't just all appear at once.
> 
> For what it's worth (which is nothing at all) but as you drive into Dumfries they have an awesome bus shelter with a very large rhino on top.


Ha ha ha you are funny cool <3 My sister was born in Dumfries, me Glasgow. I am curious, what is this bus stop all about?


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> Er........ here......!!!!!
> 
> .


Er where ? I said slated, never mentioned the word hate ?


----------



## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I live in Canada so of course didn't vote, but trust me Canada still has its issues. East versus West Separatism - The Canadian Encyclopedia

me I would keep the country together my hubby though thinks they should separate lol as the west has all the natural resources oil, gas, agriculture. We agree to disagree and let it be...so why are we arguing peoples points of view? everyone is entitled to one!!!


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Omg nothing to do with you being scottish then lol. Off topic ? How's it off topic I didn't instigate this "debate" don't post inflammatory remarks if you don't want reponses !


Your comments have been ON TOPIC, I will give you that Bella, but wow you have been RUDE!

The off topic was referring to other members.... a general statement not aimed at any one person!


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Er where ? I said slated, never mentioned the word hate ?


Ok.... so show me where I 'slated'.....!!!

I'll wait........

.


----------



## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Someone messaged me to say you were also picked on really badly when you first joined, you should understand and empathize how it feels to be the one/new voice against many?
> 
> You are clearly outspoken, and so am I, that should not be a reason to ban someone?
> 
> The person I saw banned was encouraging people to kill cats, and the other was over the top with his rudeness, I am none of those things. I am just passionate about an Independent Scotland and not a fan of paedo Sir Cliff.


Really. I can easily guess who that is. :Yawn:

Gossip at its best. Sad.

Yes, I was and not just me. Many members were bullied by the user. They got perm banned in the end.

You can accuse me of being a bully all you like and everyone else who has not agreed with you.

The truth is, you are rude whether you see that or not. I am not the only one who can see it. I was not rude to you. I Merely pointed out you will get a better discussion on a thread if you tone down your posts.

So you and your new pal can gossip about me all you like.


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Your comments have been ON TOPIC, I will give you that Bella, but wow you have been RUDE!
> 
> The off topic was referring to other members.... a general statement not aimed at any one person!


My comments have been no ruder than the post I originally responded to.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

canuckjill said:


> I live in Canada so of course didn't vote, but trust me Canada still has its issues. East versus West Separatism - The Canadian Encyclopedia
> 
> me I would keep the country together my hubby though thinks they should separate lol as the west has all the natural resources oil, gas, agriculture. We agree to disagree and let it be...so why are we arguing peoples points of view? everyone is entitled to one!!!


All countries have issues whether they are Independent or not. But wow, Canada is an inspiration, and they/you have made a success of it. Your financial model is held up as an example and an ideal to aspire to!

I love Canada, you are very lucky to live there. :yesnod:


----------



## soulful dog (Nov 6, 2011)

Jeez this thread has degenerated into a bit of a ****-fest! I'd picked out a couple of quotes I was going to reply to (education, pensions), then realised the thread had grown 15+ pages since I first looked at it..... 

I've given up reading less than halfway through, too many people getting hot under the collar!


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> I said I did not like how all and sundry were TELLING the Scots how they should vote instead of leaving them to make their own decisions.


It's not simply Scots voting though is it? As I've said, I know several Germans who are eligible to vote as they live there. David Tennant said it correctly.. 


> As I chose to leave Scotland many years ago now I forfeited my right to tell Scottish residents how to run the country


Saying that, if they open up conversation outside of Scotland...

Can you answer this question.. Isn't the referendum by itself, a betrayal of the United Kingdom? If so, are you surprised feelings are running high on both sides? If only one member of a partnership starts insisting on a divorce out of the blue.. how often does it work out amicably?

Just as an aside, some of the "worst" welsh nationalists I have known aren't actually welsh, but have moved there.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> My comments have been no ruder than the post I originally responded to.


As it was my post you responded to, I can assure you it was in no way rude at any point.

I do not do 'rude' as anyone around here will tell you.

.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

As I'm ENGLISH, I'd like to say I hope you'll have your:-

own state pensions
benefit system
defence
all health (hospitals ect.)
currency

Will you need passports to come to England, like we do when we go to Europe.

You can't have one thing and not the other, we are together or not, no halfway.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

soulful dog said:


> Jeez this thread has degenerated into a bit of a ****-fest! I'd picked out a couple of quotes I was going to reply to (education, pensions), then realised the thread had grown 15+ pages since I first looked at it.....
> 
> I've given up reading less than halfway through, too many people getting hot under the collar!


Please post your information, it will help keep the thread on topic. All information is welcome, whether it be from a NO or Yes perspective. :yesnod:

I am sorry all the personal, and off topic comments has put you off.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Happy Paws said:


> As I'm ENGLISH, I'd like to say I hope you'll have your:-
> 
> own state pensions
> benefit system
> ...


This is one of the points the SNP can confirm, there will be no border control lol.  That is a lie Project Fear have came up with to scare people. We will also still have BBC Scotland, which is what we have now anyway (different program schedule already), and we will all still drive on the same side of the road.


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

As someone with no horse in the race being neither english or scottish, I think a lot of people would be happier if we just gave Alex Salmond his own island somewhere we can even call it new Scotland. The United Kingdom came together through economic necessity and Scotland and England hardly have a great history. If they want their independence and it's not going to cause any suffering for them then great go for it :yesnod:.

*Ignores the trainwreck that is the personal stuff*


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Goblin said:


> It's not simply Scots voting though is it? As I've said, I know several Germans who are eligible to vote as they live there. David Tennant said it correctly..
> 
> Saying that, if they open up conversation outside of Scotland...
> 
> ...


As I said in my very original post, and what I have said from the start of the referendum topic, I didn't have an opinion. I've not lived there for 25yrs, I don't know the economics of the country, how their day to day living is and I would not be affected by either of the possible outcomes.

But I have seen other people who would also not be affected be very vocal in their opinions and I think it is wrong. Leave the Scottish residents to make up their own minds, they are capable of it.

Over 25yrs of living in England has seen many English voice their opinon on being united with Scotland to me - the views were rarely favourable. I can't help but feel that, for some, Scotland was a toy they didn't want to play with until someone threatened to take it away and suddenly they want to keep it.

Also, the 'divorce' talk hasn't come out of the blue because it was a forced marriage that Scotland never actually wanted and the grumbling has always been there.

,


----------



## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> As it was my post you responded to, I can assure you it was in no way rude at any point.
> 
> I do not do 'rude' as anyone around here will tell you.
> 
> .


Well being english I found your post rude, obviously being scottish you found my comments rude. I'm not usually so outspoken, i apologise if you found my posts rude, I could have maybe been a bit more tactful but I'm a speak first think later kinda person and things don't always come out how they should. Genuinely I don't have a problem with scotland, as I said my dads family origin(e from dundee I suppose I was a bit oversensitive re your post.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

MoggyBaby said:


> As I said in my very original post, and what I have said from the start of the referendum topic, I didn't have an opinion. I've not lived there for 25yrs, I don't know the economics of the country, how their day to day living is and I would not be affected by either of the possible outcomes.
> 
> But I have seen other people who would also not be affected be very vocal in their opinions and I think it is wrong. Leave the Scottish residents to make up their own minds, they are capable of it.
> 
> ...


Again, a fantastic post (I am fast becoming a suck butt, blush).

I am like you, very passionate about my homeland. I am all too aware of the anti-Scottish feeling and the anti-English, both sides are guilty of. But.....

I have lived here all my life! And the past few years of a SNP Scottish run parliament things have started to improve. They have really done a grand job! And tried to mitigate the changes and austerity imposed on us by Westminster. The bedroom tax for example, nobody in Scotland has to pay that as of April 2014, there is a fund, and ALL that apply get it. Unlike the previous year. Free prescriptions, no tuition fees, the list is endless.

When the SNP became the majority government in Scotland, they swept the board in the election by a 20% of votes. The polls said the SNP would lose by 20%.

The polls are sometimes inaccurate and bias, I hope they are again. And on the 18th of September, the SNP will show the corrupt media polls, for what they are bias and tinkered with!


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> This is one of the points the SNP can confirm, there will be no border control lol.


This is the same SNP who says the Scotland will use the pound?



MoggyBaby said:


> Also, the 'divorce' talk hasn't come out of the blue because it was a forced marriage that Scotland never actually wanted and the grumbling has always been there


Who says there isn't grumbling in a marriage  Doesn't mean it will end in divorce. Surely you can understand the idea that if there is all this grumbling why is it so many Scots leave Scotland and live in "enemy territory"?

Northeners complain about the "soft" southerners and vice versa. Doesn't mean anything in the long run and when push comes to shove, both will not stand together with differences put aside.

I also notice you don't answer the specific questions.


----------



## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

MoggyBaby said:


> As I said in my very original post, and what I have said from the start of the referendum topic, I didn't have an opinion. I've not lived there for 25yrs, I don't know the economics of the country, how their day to day living is and I would not be affected by either of the possible outcomes.
> 
> *But I have seen other people who would also not be affected be very vocal in their opinions and I think it is wrong. Leave the Scottish residents to make up their own minds, they are capable of it.*
> 
> ...


But, most topics on this forum are discussed by people who are not necessarily affected/connected - on that basis it will be very quiet from now on 

I can't believe any Scot will be swayed by what any of these particular people have to say.

I can also understand why an English person could be offended by some of the derogatory comments that non-English people make about their country, whilst being happy to live and work in England (not saying that you did btw) 

One interesting thing that I read was that there are apparently 100,000 scots who have vowed to move to England if independence is granted - go figure!


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> *This is one of the points the SNP can confirm, there will be no border control lol. * That is a lie Project Fear have came up with to scare people. We will also still have BBC Scotland, which is what we have now anyway (different program schedule already), and we will all still drive on the same side of the road.


Well I'm sorry there should be, why should you be any different.


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Happy Paws said:


> Well I'm sorry there should be, why should you be any different.


There's no border control between northern ireland and the republic either. I'm fairly sure I drove between France and Belgium with no issues. All EU countries of course that might be the difference.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> There's no border control between northern ireland and the republic either. I'm fairly sure I drove between France and Belgium with no issues. All EU countries of course that might be the difference.


Exactly wee Nicky, thank you :001_wub: The "borders thing" is just a scare story, which some are sadly believing. But still swear blind they know more that the Scottish people who live in Scotland. You couldn't make it up... oh actually they are making false stories up!

I live in Scotland, so I am aware all too aware of the Project Fear, and their lies and scaremongering.


----------



## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I don't really have any opinion other than it would be a pain for me to visit England and Scotland as a tourist if Scotland became a separate country. I may just skip Scotland. It could hurt tourism.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> There's no border control between northern ireland and the republic either.* I'm fairly sure I drove between France and Belgium with no issues.* All EU countries of course that might be the difference.


Yes you can, but you still need a passport to get in the UK


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Happy Paws said:


> Yes you can, but you still need a passport to get in the UK


I need a passport to get on a plane to go to England as well or at least official id and that's within the same country. You'd need a passport to go to France or most of Europe but there's no border checkpoints.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Happy Paws said:


> Well I'm sorry there should be, why should you be any different.


Ireland are "different" ... they do not have border control between Northern, and southern Ireland.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Personally, I think we would be better with a new currency, for all the reasons you point out!  But not keeping the £ would be a vote loser unfortunately.


Think this statement says so much about the referendum. It's not about what is best but what potentially gets votes.

As far as border controls go.. What happens if the Uk leaves the EU or if Scotland doesn't join?


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> I need a passport to get on a plane to go to England as well or at least official id and that's within the same country. You'd need a passport to go to France or most of Europe but there's no border checkpoints.


Germans can use their identity card rather than passport last we travelled.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Goblin said:


> Germans can use their identity card rather than passport last we travelled.


I did say official ID but we don't have id cards here the slightest hint they may be brought in brought mass hysteria big brother etc, only passports are accepted. I think that's only within the eu though


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

I need a passport to fly from Glasgow to Aberdeen. That is the airlines rule, needing passports within the UK to fly. That is not border control, that is to help prevent terrorism and other security reasons.

Anyone flying from London to Edinburgh for example NOW needs a passport. 

You need a passport to fly, but you can drive within the UK freely. That will remain unchanged IF we get Independence.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Goblin said:


> Germans can use their identity card rather than passport last we travelled.


9/11 stopped all that. It HAS to be passports now.

I have heard of rare cases of people being able to fly within the UK with just ID. But it is certainly not encouraged, and only done as the exception.

Otherwise all the sex slaves that are human trafficked from abroad could flee, but instead their captures keep their passports  Because since the fear of terrorism, it is passport or you are not flying!


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> 9/11 stopped all that. It HAS to be passports now.
> 
> I have heard of rare cases of being being able to fly within the UK with just ID. But it is certainly not encouraged, and only done as the exception.
> 
> Otherwise all the sex slaves that are human trafficked from abroad could flee, but instead their captures keep their passports  Because since the fear of terrorism, it is passport or you are not flying!


My sister's flown to Wales and back on a driving licence before. And that was oh 2 years ago. It's fine as long as it's official photographic id I think. But she couldn't use it to fly to Dublin


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Goblin said:


> Think this statement says so much about the referendum. It's not about what is best but what potentially gets votes.
> 
> As far as border controls go.. What happens if the Uk leaves the EU or if Scotland doesn't join?


I always try to answer as honestly as I can, hence admitting you had a point there.

It could be wee Alex will change our currency to one of our own, further down the line, if that is what the people want, once they see the benefits.

People are always scared of change, so gently gently.

I do not understand why people fear the change, NO.10 changes hands to a different political party every 10 years give or take.

We already have a devolved government, albeit limited. So the change over will be pretty much seamless, though the NO campaign will make it sound otherwise.

There is no border, will not be border control between Scotland and England, regardless if Scotland is in Europe. I am perhaps not understanding your question?


----------



## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

I have no idea whether what my dad was saying today was true or not, but he believes the vast majority of Scottish people will vote no, and solely because Scotland won't be able to afford to go independent. Losing the currency as it stands now, losing our army, something to do with the navy and ships being made being moved to work in Portsmouth? That basically they won't survive without the rest of the UK. 

It's kind of an odd thing for me to think about. Almost like there is some huge national divide now and that Scotland want nothing more to do with the UK. What is the reason? 

Like I said, I know next to nothing about it.


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

DogLover1981 said:


> I don't really have any opinion other than it would be a pain for me to visit England and Scotland as a tourist if Scotland became a separate country. I may just skip Scotland. It could hurt tourism.


You can still come and visit bonny Scotland, it will just be the same to travel here. Drive on through, NO borders! 



Dogloverlou said:


> I have no idea whether what my dad was saying today was true or not, but he believes the vast majority of Scottish people will vote no, and solely because Scotland won't be able to afford to go independent. Losing the currency as it stands now, losing our army, something to do with the navy and ships being made being moved to work in Portsmouth? That basically they won't survive without the rest of the UK.
> 
> It's kind of an odd thing for me to think about. Almost like there is some huge national divide now and that Scotland want nothing more to do with the UK. What is the reason?
> 
> Like I said, I know next to nothing about it.


Your Dad WAS right, the majority was NO up until a month ago. But the official polls are now 50/50. It is neck and neck, the YES's are going from strength to strength. But still not ahead.... yet.

We can afford to go it alone, or we wouldn't be having a vote on Independence. 

The Army will be divided up if we get a YES, proportional of course. The same with the Navy. It has been discussed in live debates on Scottish TV.

And it is going to take over 10 years to dismantle Trident from Scotland, which YES wants rid of, Yeeeeeeees!


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

I am logging off now, been debating this all day (sado that I am). Trying to now catch some of the sun out in the garden.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> You can still come and visit bonny Scotland, it will just be the same to travel here. Drive on through, NO borders!
> 
> Your Dad WAS right, the majority was NO up until a month ago. But the official polls are now 50/50. It is neck and neck, the YES's are going from strength to strength. But still not ahead.... yet.
> 
> ...


But, because something has been discussed on television during a live debate doesn't necessarily make it fact.

Divide up the Army and Navy ........... how would that work?


----------



## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Why can't we all just get along?? :crying:

I have some Scottish and Irish in me, but I live in Cornwall...

Scotland is beautiful
England is beautiful
Wales is beautiful
Ireland is beautiful
Cornwall is beautiful

Cornwall has wanted independence for a very long time too, it is also a long way from Westminster. It is in fact the poorest part of the UK despite the fact that it also has a lot of people relocate due to its natural beauty (yes people also move south). They seem to forget about us all the way down 'ere...

Anyway, whatever happens at least we won't have to put up with Alex Salmond going on and on and on and on and on and on ...


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Sweety said:


> But, because something has been discussed on television during a live debate doesn't necessarily make it fact.
> 
> Divide up the Army and Navy ........... how would that work?


It wouldn't work.

Scotland used to have about 10 (don't quote me on the number) Regiments. Which they couldn't afford to keep running, so they axed four and amalgamated the remaining six in to one regiment (The Royal Regiment of Scotland) whilst at the same time making huge cuts. this was all after the amalgamation of four other Regiments...

In what world, will a Scottish army sustain itself when it couldn't sustain itself as part of the UK?

Other issues the 'yes' campaign like to skirt over and ignore.

There are also 3,000 workers at Trident, all of which will lose their jobs if Scotland become independent. The towns that have been built up around it will disappear... Where are those 3,000 people going to work?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Lauren5159 said:


> It wouldn't work.
> 
> Scotland used to have about 10 (don't quote me on the number) Regiments. Which they couldn't afford to keep running, so they axed four and amalgamated the remaining six in to one regiment (The Royal Regiment of Scotland) whilst at the same time making huge cuts.
> 
> ...


The Edinburgh Tattoo is gonna be pretty boring if Scotland goes their own way.


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> The Edinburgh Tattoo is gonna be pretty boring if Scotland goes their own way.


Lol... THAT would be a major fall from grace


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> There is no border, will not be border control between Scotland and England, regardless if Scotland is in Europe. I am perhaps not understanding your question?


The reason you have freedom of travel within the EU is freedom of movement is mandated (although the UK has exemption for border control etc). What happens if Scotland leaves, joins the EU and isn't allowed that exemption? What if Scotland is denied membership of the EU? What if the rest of the UK decides to leave to EU. The argument would go.. "Why should Scotland be used as a gateway by the rest of the EU into the UK with no checks?". Trade, immigration and security are all aspects of it. No border control is yet another thing which is blithly dismissed as "of course" when the real fact is "likely, but can not be guaranteed".


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Lauren5159 said:


> It wouldn't work.
> 
> Scotland used to have about 10 (don't quote me on the number) Regiments. Which they couldn't afford to keep running, so they axed four and amalgamated the remaining six in to one regiment (The Royal Regiment of Scotland) whilst at the same time making huge cuts. this was all after the amalgamation of four other Regiments...
> 
> ...


Scotland have been getting financially bled dry for decades, we pay more INTO the UK, than they give us back.  We will have sooo much more money, not having to pay into the UK. Simple really 

Maggie Thatcher decided Trident was to be located in Scotland, believe it or not Glasgow was already here before Trident  The 3000 jobs won't all go at once, they reckon it could take 10 years to dismantle and relocate Trident. In the meantime new jobs will be created in an Independent Scotland, renewables, hydro electric, new Army and Navy bases. Swings and roundabouts... the new Army reg's will create jobs.

Dividing up the Army and Navy is easy, it had all been included in the SNP white paper. England being bigger and more densely populated gets a bigger chunk.

People put forward these arguments all the time, it is all very simply solved.

Full Independence will happen slowly, one financial matter at a time. It is going to take YEARS, Mr Cameron outlined that when he gave us the vote. But the NO camp isn't advertising that fact, they prefere to scaremonger, rather than inform rationally.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, I think you're over simplifying.

Why would any of the 3000 employees of Trident want to join the Army or Navy?

If they wanted to be in the Forces, you would have to assume they would be already.


----------



## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

Sarah H said:


> Why can't we all just get along?? :crying:
> 
> I have some Scottish and Irish in me, but I live in Cornwall...
> 
> ...


Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and Cornwall are all very beautiful from the air. I have looked on satellite maps and seen it on TV. I find the ancient history of these places fascinating. The culture is interesting as well. Where I live in New England is beautiful too. I will say I don't understand the obsession with what people are. Why be so obsessed about something with which you have no control over? I had no choice in being born in the states nor the fact that many of my ancestors were German. 



Nicky10 said:


> Scotland and England hardly have a great history


Is any of that history recent? You can't blame people for the mistakes of past generations.


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Goblin said:


> The reason you have freedom of travel within the EU is freedom of movement is mandated (although the UK has exemption for border control etc). What happens if Scotland leaves, joins the EU and isn't allowed that exemption? What if Scotland is denied membership of the EU? What if the rest of the UK decides to leave to EU. The argument would go.. "Why should Scotland be used as a gateway by the rest of the EU into the UK with no checks?". Trade, immigration and security are all aspects of it. No border control is yet another thing which is blithly dismissed as "of course" when the real fact is "likely, but can not be guaranteed".


All those things you say can happen now, as part of the UK? I really fail to see your point, sadly. Illegals, world citizens or Europeans can come to Scotland and then travel onto England now without borders!!!!


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Well, I think you're over simplifying.
> 
> Why would any of the 3000 employees of Trident want to join the Army or Navy?
> 
> If they wanted to be in the Forces, you would have to assume they would be already.


I did mention the renewables and natural resources projects. The job market is endless, lots of other jobs are planned to be created. I refer you to google the SNP White Paper on the matter, it explains it all. Too long and complicated to explain on the forum. I am now exhausted from discussing all this, I cannot possibly answer every post or question on here and have a life to. I have spent hours on here as it is, got nothing I had planned to do today done.

Google White Paper SNP part 4 discusses the various currency options that Alex has outlined, which is accused of not having any plans. The White Paper discusses plan A, B, C and D. Another part discusses the disarmament plan.

All the answers are in there.

Though Westminster is refusing to negotiate some things until we get Independence, so yeah not EVERYTHING is set in stone. Westminsters ploy, not an SNP one.

Over and out, I am wasting my life discussing all this with people who don't even have a vote on the matter. I will stick with helping the undecideds who have a vote on the 18th, and discussing it on FB and Twitter.

I do not mean that rudely, simply I have a life. And have spent far too much time on here today.

Good night, I hope you all have a good week.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> All those things you say can happen now, as part of the UK? I really fail to see your point, sadly. Illegals, world citizens or Europeans can come to Scotland and then travel onto England now without borders!!!!


Really.. this is your facts. Of course people can travel through the same nation without problems. Even living in the EU means you can cross borders between countries. UK has exemptions however to control it's borders. When currently entering the UK at for example, Edinburgh Airport you have to pass through both customs and border control. I don't have to do that between say Germany and France. Thankfully citizens of the EU certainly don't have to go through the immigration process non-EU citizens have to. What happens if either Scotland or the UK are no longer in the EU and are separate. It's not all "it will simply be okay".

Have a quick look at UKCISA - Immigration and customs Notice Scottish airports are included


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2014)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> The job market is endless


Isn't the unemployment rate in Scotland about the same as in the UK?


----------



## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Well tomorrow night on bbc,salmond and darling have another live debate,worth a watching if your still undecided,i of course will be glued to the telly......watching celebrity big brother!


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Scotland have been getting financially bled dry for decades, we pay more INTO the UK, than they give us back.  We will have sooo much more money, not having to pay into the UK. Simple really
> 
> Maggie Thatcher decided Trident was to be located in Scotland, believe it or not Glasgow was already here before Trident  The 3000 jobs won't all go at once, they reckon it could take 10 years to dismantle and relocate Trident. In the meantime new jobs will be created in an Independent Scotland, renewables, hydro electric, new Army and Navy bases. Swings and roundabouts... the new Army reg's will create jobs.
> 
> ...


That is not all true. Are you saying it's England's fault that the Scottish Regiments were amalgamated? Because you'd be wrong. The Scottish army couldn't sustain itself enough as PART of the UK, how would it sustain itself on its own? And, according to you, employ 3,000 other people?!

Again, none of what you're saying is supported by facts and that is my main issue with the 'yes' campaign. It's always, "we'll keep this... We'll keep that... We'll be better on our own, just because".


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I did mention the renewables and natural resources projects. The job market is endless, lots of other jobs are planned to be created. I refer you to google the SNP White Paper on the matter, it explains it all. Too long and complicated to explain on the forum. I am now exhausted from discussing all this, I cannot possibly answer every post or question on here and have a life to. I have spent hours on here as it is, got nothing I had planned to do today done.
> 
> Google White Paper SNP part 4 discusses the various currency options that Alex has outlined, which is accused of not having any plans. The White Paper discusses plan A, B, C and D. Another part discusses the disarmament plan.
> 
> ...


What are the renewables and natural resource projects?

It's a simple question.

Why would all of these job opportunities suddenly open up because Scotland has become Independent?

I realise, as you say, that your 'help' is needed on Facebook and Twitter, but could you just answer that question?


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Sweety said:


> What are the renewables and natural resource projects?
> 
> It's a simple question.
> 
> ...


I read earlier of all the natural resources quoted by the OP - one of them was wind.....

Oh how I wish I lived in a country that had wind as a natural resource...


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> I read earlier of all the natural resources quoted by the OP - one of them was wind.....
> 
> Oh how I wish I lived in a country that had wind as a natural resource...


And wasn't water mentioned? Water, apparently, is a valuable resource.

We don't get any rain in England.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Sweety said:


> And wasn't water mentioned? Water, apparently, is a valuable resource.
> 
> We don't get any rain in England.


I am currently stealing another countrie's natural resources then!


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Sweety said:


> We don't get any rain in England.


Have you looked outside today


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Haven't read all the replies yet (too many pages - got to p17 before I realised I actually have a life ).

BC, from what I've read, you are very fond of attaching pics to use your arguments for the Yes vote, rather than what your own personal opinion happens to be. You know all the data, but come across as having no actual opinion, despite repeatedly calling yourself Passionate.

I therefore think these pics might help you understand why people take offence at the undercurrents of your posts. *They do not, in any way, portray my personal opinion towards you or any other member of this forum - this is just what I am picking up from the undercurrent of yout posts*..


















See? The words (like your own) say one thing, but the actions and the language behind them (which speak louder) say something entirely different. :ihih:

I do apologise - especially the younger forum member - for the pics, but they were the cleanest pics I could find which indicate the discrepancy between what you say and what you mean.

Just a thought...

Oh, and for the record, I'm English, proud to be English, love Scotland as a country, people (when I've visited Scotland) came across as friendly, but you will be pleased to know I haven't touched your poll, except to see how people are voting. :001_unsure:


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Happy Paws said:


> Have you looked outside today


I've been outside for some time and got soaked.

BUT, I'm a little worried. Does all this water really belong to Scotland? Are we English stealing their resources AGAIN?


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> Actually the £ was Scotland's first in the 13th centuary, until the English adopted it to!  A little known fact!!


I thought it was a Norman thing? :blink:


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

For those not in the know and scoff:

*Hydroelectricity is the term referring to electricity generated by hydropower; the production of electrical power through the use of the gravitational force of falling or flowing water. It is the most widely used form of renewable energy, accounting for 16 percent of global electricity generation.*

Because believe it or not, it does rain here more than down south, and we have a high proportion of water ways to land. That fact you can giggle and snigger all the way to the bank with.

Oh and hydroelectric has been creating electricity for over 50 years in Scotland, to supply the rest of the UK. Hydroelectricy is not created anywhere else in the UK. So you are gonna have to pay Scotland for it, if we get Independence. 

And Scotland does have more extreme wind and rain than the rest of the UK, so again in Independence we will be making more use of that all in the form of wind farms and other newer forms of technology. And for those that do not know what a wind farm is  :

*A wind farm or wind park is a group of wind turbines in the same location used to produce energy. A large wind farm may consist of several hundred individual wind turbines and cover an extended area of hundreds of square miles, but the land between the turbines may be used for agricultural or other purposes. A wind farm can also be located offshore.
*

Scotland does have a more extreme weather system, and an Independent Scotland will harness and use it, in the form of increasing the use of renewables (hydroelectric and wind farm etc). Therefore new installations will create jobs!

Ps. Enjoy your hose pipe bans during your long hot summers, because you are now going to have to pay Scotland for all that extra water we give you.

You will no doubt answer my post in a puerile and demeaning way, which is all too familiar on this forum. Congratulations you have all now chased off another new member, but I take it as a compliment that I do not "fit in" here. 

And for those people who hate my memes, one final one for you :sneaky2:


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> For those not in the know and scoff:
> 
> *Hydroelectricity is the term referring to electricity generated by hydropower; the production of electrical power through the use of the gravitational force of falling or flowing water. It is the most widely used form of renewable energy, accounting for 16 percent of global electricity generation.*
> 
> ...


Well aware of what a wind farm is, thank you very much.

We have many wind farms here in poor England, on land and offshore.

And, "long, hot Summers"? Are you kidding?

Also, you say Scotland will be selling all this power they generate. What do they do with it now, give it away?


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Sweety said:


> Also, you say Scotland will be selling all this power they generate. What do they do with it now, give it away?


Funny, I knew you would be the first to post in reply Sweety.

Yes as part of the UK we do indeed give it away to the rest of the UK. One of the MANY reasons Scotland wants Independence 

Yes, England has wind farms to  But is far less windy than Scotland. Hence our wind farms create far more energy!!

To make use of our unfortunate weather system the SNP is planning to increase hydroelectric output, and the number of wind farms with Independence.

You must admit renewables are the way of the future, because as we know Oil is not an infinite resource.

We will have total control of our own finances, and iScotland's plan is an admirable one. At the moment our hands are tied being part of the UK.

The tide is turning, and if we get Independence, I will be logging in here to gloat ha ha ha .


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> The £ was Scotland's first, we were the first to have an official "currency" in the UK. The £ was first used in and created in Scotland in the 13th centuary. The English then adopted it.  Personally, I think we would be better with a new currency, for all the reasons you point out!  But not keeping the £ would be a vote loser unfortunately.


Been Googling this, and still cannot find a single source that says pound Sterling originated anywhere other than England?

There was the Scots pound, but that was something different.

Maybe I am missing something?


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

As usual half the story. Wind farms do have massive disadvantages too, not least that you have to turn them off if its too windy and they kill loads of birds.

Disadvantages of Wind Energy


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Shoshannah said:


> Been Googling this, and still cannot find a single source that says pound Sterling originated anywhere other than England?
> 
> There was the Scots pound, but that was something different.
> 
> Maybe I am missing something?


I have answered this question TWICE already!  But you will have to read the read to find the posts. Hint, yesterday mid afternoon.

I will not be answering anymore questions, as there is very few of you who even have a vote on the 18th.

But as I said, I will be logging back on, on the 19th to celebrate. The latest polls published yesterday actually put the YES camp ahead by a smidgen.

Goodbye for now, there is not point a Scots residing person, discussing this with English people who clearly resent Scotland's want for Independence  You all think Scotland is too wee, and too stupid.... we are going to show you different on the 18th!


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

rottiepointerhouse said:


> As usual half the story. Wind farms do have massive disadvantages too, not least that you have to turn them off if its too windy and they kill loads of birds.
> 
> Disadvantages of Wind Energy


I agree, you are right. But no energy source is sadly cruelty free or does not harm the environment. Oil kills and pollutes the sea, sea life and wildlife suffer as a consequence. 

It is a case of the lesser of two evils. I wish we lived in an ideal world, and we can but try our best.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2014)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> You all think Scotland is too wee, and too stupid.... we are going to show you different on the 18th!


I think your mistaking peoples opinions of you rather than what they think about Scotland my dear...


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

*I really won't allow myself to be drawn into anymore discussion about it. Maybe another YES Scot may take up the torch from here (though doubt they will after seeing the hate and vitriol posted by English members towards a Scot who dares want Independence). But I really feel like I am wasting time here. You all pay lips service to people having an opinion, but you all do not want me to have one. So off I pop, to discuss Scottish matters, which people who reside in Scotland, and who give a damn.*

*Good day, will pop back on the 19th *


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

Who said Scotland is too wee and too stupid? I don't remember reading that from anyone other than you.

By the way if by some chance its a no vote will you come back so we can commiserate with you


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> *I really won't allow myself to be drawn into anymore discussion about it. Maybe another YES Scot may take up the torch from here (though doubt they will after seeing the hate and vitriol posted by English members towards a Scot who dares want Independence). But I really feel like I am wasting time here. You all pay lips service to people having an opinion, but you all do not want me to have one. So off I pop, to discuss Scottish matters, which people who reside in Scotland, and who give a damn.*
> 
> *Good day, will pop back on the 19th *


Not one person on this thread has expressed any anti Scottish sentiments. I haven't seen one person say they have a problem with Scotland or the issue of Independence.

However, a good number of people have had an issue with your patronising, bullying posts and your horrible attitude if anyone won't agree with you.

You appear to think we're all of far lesser intelligence than you. Throughout this thread, you've told us what to believe, what to read, what to say and now, in one of your recent posts, you're telling us all what we're actually thinking.

You just can't see it. Most of us don't have any problem with Scotland. You're the problem.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2014)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> *I really won't allow myself to be drawn into anymore discussion about it. Maybe another YES Scot may take up the torch from here (though doubt they will after seeing the hate and vitriol posted by forum members towards a numpty who tends to insult everyone). But I really feel like I am wasting time here. You all pay lips service to people having an opinion, but you all do not want me to have one. So off I pop, to discuss Scottish matters, which people who reside in Scotland, and who give a damn.*
> 
> *Good day, will pop back on the 19th *


Please don't make it too hard for me to get into Scotland when you win please, i'm planning on going in a few months...


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

My friend's (currently living in England) view on Independence:

*The Scottish referendum
Ok as most of you know I am a fiercely patriotic Scotsman living in the very south of England.
I do not have a vote but if I did I would choose the yes vote and make Scotland independent.
There seems to be a lot of talk flying around over this so I thought I would give my take on it.
Firstly...Scotland does not hate England....this isn't the reason we want to separate. My closest friends are English....and I love this country. There will always be small minded people on both sides of the border instigating hatred....but those are the ignorant minority.
But instead Scotland has a chance to install a government that answers to it's people...and that may not be the SNP.
As it stands our government cares more about how the rest of the world sees us...rather than caring about it's own people.
I have see this first hand as a war veteran. I was part of the force that invaded Iraq in 2003. When I was there I saw tanks and artillery that had been destroyed during the first gulf war.... And we went in on very little evidence of WMD. It was all to do with us being part of a larger dominating force.
We seem to be desperately hanging on to the old ways of a world conquering force.
We went there and it's soldiers had nothing....the men had boots that were melting on their feet or had to buy their own. The front line soldiers had no body armour plates...food and water was also limited. It was so bad that the Americans had to feed us one meal a day while we were in Kuwait.
I crossed the breach into a war zone with 10 rounds in my rifle....as we had nothing.....our morphine pens were also reduced so they could be spread around. So our government risked the lives of our people to pander to others.
So for me I see change....it's time to throw out what we are used to and make a difference.
I also see this as an opportunity for England too....the government can now be forced into listening to it's people for a change....as Scottish independence can prove our citizens are tired of the same crap we are being force fed right now.
Scotland may go through some tough periods of change but I think it's time for it's people to pull their socks up and embrace the difficulties...and for our English neighbours to show support rather than looking for darker reasoning for the referendum.*


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## Polski (Mar 16, 2014)

This is a post I made on a Scottish pals post on FB earlier



> To be honest I don't 100% like the idea...I do fully understand and support it tho...who wouldn't want to divorce the corrupt bastards in government but I like being part of the UK and that includes Scotland. Bittersweet but I hope you get the YES.


Your attitude stinks, YOU are making it a segregation issue and thats never a good thing in my opinion.


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## rottiepointerhouse (Feb 9, 2014)

And that is the difference between someone who speaks from the heart but is not trying to force his opinion on others or talk to them as if they must be thick for not agreeing. If you start a thread asking for opinions then that is what you will get. When those opinions don't happen to be the same is yours by all means give reasons for your own opinions but don't talk down to people, get personal or try to brow beat them by constantly saying that your opinion is FACT when it is one side of an argument to which there is always a perfectly valid other side too.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2014)

Anyway, you haven't actually mentioned your pets yet BC...who signs up to a pet forum just to talk politics?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

I refuse to listen to people who shout to try and get their point across. Nothing has convinced me logic rather than emotions are driving the yes vote.


----------



## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm not sure I'm really entitled to an opinion on this, seeing as I am English without any Scottish blood (my family are Irish on one side, but I was born in England and consider myself English).

But hell, it's on the forum and I live in the country Scotland is proposing a split from so it does sort of concern me...

There is a lot of bad feeling on this thread. I don't hate Scotland, nor do I particularly want to see it split from the UK. All I can think now, having read pages and pages, is that when I said this:



Shoshannah said:


> I can't help but feel that the independence question is creating a lot of 'them-and-us' feeling between the two countries.


... I was right. This thread is turning into a microcosm of the countries and there is a LOT of 'them-and-us' on here.

BC, I can appreciate the sentiments of your friend whose view you posted but all the Iraq stuff is somewhat irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. It's a completely separate debate that muddies the waters of the Scottish Independence Vote. The only reason Iraq even exists is because Great Britain (I believe 'Great Britain' will still encompass an independent Scotland, even if the UK no longer does?) carved up the Middle East in the 1930's with borders created for administrative purposes. So IMO Britain, like it or not, does carry some responsibility for certain aspects (not all) of the unrest there.

Anyway, as I said, it's not really on-topic so enough of that.


----------



## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I have answered this question TWICE already!  But you will have to read the read to find the posts. Hint, yesterday mid afternoon.
> 
> I will not be answering anymore questions, as there is very few of you who even have a vote on the 18th.
> 
> ...


Um, I live in Scotland, remember? Again, you're only reading what you want to read 



BelindaCarlisle said:


> *I really won't allow myself to be drawn into anymore discussion about it. Maybe another YES Scot may take up the torch from here (though doubt they will after seeing the hate and vitriol posted by English members towards a Scot who dares want Independence). But I really feel like I am wasting time here. You all pay lips service to people having an opinion, but you all do not want me to have one. So off I pop, to discuss Scottish matters, which people who reside in Scotland, and who give a damn.*
> 
> *Good day, will pop back on the 19th *


Again, you're forgetting that Scottish people and residents HAVE actually posted on your thread. But then again, they didn't say what you wanted them to, did they? 



BelindaCarlisle said:


> My friend's (currently living in England) view on Independence:
> 
> *The Scottish referendum
> Ok as most of you know I am a fiercely patriotic Scotsman living in the very south of England.
> ...


How utterly hypocritical! I thought you weren't interested in what people living in England had to say?!

I truly, truly hope that people reading this thread do not take you as a typical Scot. For you give everyone who lives here a bad name and I worry that they will judge the country based on your attitude 

I love this country. I truly do and I love living here. I don't want Independence but I will not shove my views down people's throats without even considering the other side of the argument. You're deluded and rude.

To everyone else: She is not typical of the people here. She's an exception and a bad one, at that. Scotland is beautiful, the people are welcoming and warm and I truly hope your feelings towards Scotland don't change because of the attitude of a few.

The divide that independence is causing, really gets to me. There is nothing more upsetting that reading the horrible things some English people and residents have been saying about Scotland and vice versa. Don't tar us all with the same brush.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Lauren5159 said:


> Um, I live in Scotland, remember? Again, you're only reading what you want to read
> 
> Again, you're forgetting that Scottish people and residents HAVE actually posted on your thread. But then again, they didn't say what you wanted them to, did they?
> 
> ...


I've visited Scotland on a number of occasions and always found the people to be kind, welcoming and very humorous.

I don't find the OP typical at all of the people I met there.

I would love to visit again. x


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## LynnM (Feb 21, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> I read earlier of all the natural resources quoted by the OP - one of them was wind.....
> 
> Oh how I wish I lived in a country that had wind as a natural resource...





Sweety said:


> And wasn't water mentioned? Water, apparently, is a valuable resource.
> 
> We don't get any rain in England.


Right, that's it! It's taken me over 2 hours to read this bleedin' thread so far and it's given me a headache and now you two have given me rib ache to go with it 'cos you've made me laugh so much :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Salmond and co are going to put the best spin on independence that they can. Scotland managed just fine as an independent country for centuries of course but different resources are valuable now. Consider a thing called bias, his speeches and whatever are as biased as anything David Cameron says on the subject.


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## MrsPurrfect (May 12, 2012)

Sweety said:


> I've visited Scotland on a number of occasions and always found the people to be kind, welcoming and very humorous.
> 
> I don't find the OP typical at all of the people I met there.
> 
> I would love to visit again. x


My OH is half Scottish and we have family and extremely good friends who live there. We normally visit a couple of times each year and I have to say that I love it and the people are great.

We are actually in the process of finishing a couple of projects on the house and after that are looking to put it on the market and move up there.

I can only speak as I find and know that, whatever the outcome of the referendum my Scottish friends will still be my friends and there will be no bad feeling either way.

I genuinely hope that this is the way most people feel.

May I wish all my PF friends, both Scottish and English a happy Monday


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

OP. Why have you changed your location from Scotland to McWil ......... Pat Butcher?

Do you really think that's funny?


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2014)

Well i think we have established that the OP has issues...


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I can't see anything on her profile.

What did she actually put?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Blackcats said:


> I can't see anything on her profile.
> 
> What did she actually put?


If you look on one of her posts, top right hand corner, her location used to be Scotland.

She's changed it to McWill .......... Pat Butcher.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

She's changed it again to Pretty and Intelligent.


----------



## Guest (Aug 25, 2014)

Sweety said:


> She's changed it again to Pretty and Intelligent.


Forum vote to have ITS thing changed to 'pretty unintelligent' perhaps?


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Nicky10 said:


> Salmond and co are going to put the best spin on independence that they can. Scotland managed just fine as an independent country for centuries of course but different resources are valuable now. Consider a thing called bias, his speeches and whatever are as biased as anything David Cameron says on the subject.


Please shut up and stop getting involved in such matters :sneaky2:

Actually, maybe you should cause at least you aren't shouting at me then :001_unsure:

Seriously, though; can this not just stop and go away now.

I'll give you Scotland if you give me the Rhino from the Dumfries roundabout :yesnod:

(Really though; I'm baffled  - having said that I didn't even know there was a referendum until this thread :lol: )

Own little world for the best :yesnod:


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Well being english I found your post rude, obviously being scottish you found my comments rude. I'm not usually so outspoken, i apologise if you found my posts rude, I could have maybe been a bit more tactful but I'm a speak first think later kinda person and things don't always come out how they should. Genuinely I don't have a problem with scotland, as I said my dads family origin(e from dundee I suppose I was a bit oversensitive re your post.


I'm English and I didn't find her posts rude? :blink:



BelindaCarlisle said:


> You can still come and visit bonny Scotland, it will just be the same to travel here. Drive on through, NO borders!
> 
> Your Dad WAS right, the majority was NO up until a month ago. But the official polls are now 50/50. It is neck and neck, the YES's are going from strength to strength. But still not ahead.... yet.
> 
> ...


Really? _Mr Salmond _says there would be no border controls? _Mr Salmond _says an independent Scotland would keep the Pound? What does the English government think? What if the ENGLISH government decide to build border controls? To be blunt, if Scotland gains its Independence, what gives the Scottish the right to freely cross the border into England? (And, of course, the English the right to cross the border into Scotland, but the English aren't voting for Scottish independence, and apparently, aren't even allowed to voice an opinion/cast a vote in this poll  )
BBC News - Scottish independence: Five unresolved questions

Same with the pound. What Mr Salmond thinks and what the English government think are 2 very different things.

Both of these things might be cut and dried in your Mr Salmond's mind, but it isn't at all cut and dried and in writing on either side.

You can't have it all your own way.



BelindaCarlisle said:


> Scotland have been getting financially bled dry for decades, we pay more INTO the UK, than they give us back.  We will have sooo much more money, not having to pay into the UK. Simple really
> 
> Maggie Thatcher decided Trident was to be located in Scotland, believe it or not Glasgow was already here before Trident  The 3000 jobs won't all go at once, they reckon it could take 10 years to dismantle and relocate Trident. In the meantime new jobs will be created in an Independent Scotland, renewables, hydro electric, new Army and Navy bases. Swings and roundabouts... the new Army reg's will create jobs.
> 
> ...


Unemployment is down in Scotland - you're correct there, but it's also down in the rest of the UK, so Scotland's unemployment level is just in line with the rest of the UK.  
BBC News - Scottish unemployment falls by 18,000

You don't have a Scottish Army, and what, exactly, makes you think an Independent Scotland would simply be entitled to some of the UK's?

ETA: I don't mean this post to be in any way disrespectful to other Scottish members of this forum, and, on a personal level, I don't really have an opinion one way or the other about an independent Scotland, but the OP seems to take one man's word as fact, and it seems to me that she (as another member has stated - I forget who ) she's over-simplifying things, and makes it sound as though England has absolutely no say in what happens to [currently] UK property/borders, etc.


----------



## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

jon bda said:


> Well i think we have established that the OP has issues...


It may appear forward of me to say this but I believe the the main issue here might lie in the realisation and disappointment that English nobles no longer practice 'Prima Nocta' and the OP had been harbouring a sordid little fantasy regarding a certain English lord for quite some time.

'The wench wishes to say a word'

'TAKE MEEEEE!':devil:


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

I think the frightening thing is that the sole source of justification if scotland decides to leave which is given is the SNP white paper. No outside sources seem to be even considered.

As far as celebrations go.. didn't South Carolina celebrate sucession in 1860? Let's hope if Scotland does decide to leave, celebrations are possible after a few decades. Then again, if not, it will probably be everybody else's fault.


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Goblin said:


> I think the frightening thing is that the sole source of justification if scotland decides to leave which is given is the SNP white paper. No outside sources seem to be even considered.
> 
> As far as celebrations go.. didn't South Carolina celebrate sucession in 1860? Let's hope if Scotland does decide to leave, celebrations are possible after a few decades. Then again, if not, it will probably be everybody else's fault.


All you need is one horribly biased source be it a youtube video or a paper from people trying to convince others that Scotland can be independent. Do they not teach critical thought any more?


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

LinznMilly said:


> ETA: I don't mean this post to be in any way disrespectful to other Scottish members of this forum, and, on a personal level, I don't really have an opinion one way or the other about an independent Scotland, but the OP seems to take one man's word as fact, and it seems to me that she (as another member has stated - I forget who ) she's over-simplifying things, and makes it sound as though England has absolutely no say in what happens to [currently] UK property/borders, etc.


But you do intend it to be disrespectful to me? Speaks volumes!  I do not take one man's word, I have lived in Scotland all my life, and KNOW my own reasons for wanting iScotland. Now you insult my intelligence!

I have not over simplified anything, I have said many times it is a complicated matter that I could not possibly discuss fully on an open forum.

I instead referred any members who are genuinely interested on the matter to google "The White Paper" SNP. It explains more fully the SNP plans for iScotland.

You are all posting really rude posts directed at me personally. When all I have done is talk about my desire for an Independent Scotland.

I have had MANY pm's from members informing me that you all love to nit pick and gang up, it is a favourite pass time apparently for most of you (not all, there are nice members also). A couple wanted to post on this thread but were afraid 

NOWHERE on this thread have I singled out one member, and endlessly picked at or name called them. But that is exactly what has happened to me here, just as it did in the Cliff Richard paedophile thread.

This forum needs to take a long hard look at itself..... No other forum acts like this. It is just damn soul destroying.


----------



## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I know the big things are being debated left right and centre but I keep wondering what will happen to the little things? Will delivery costs rise for things from England to Scotland because it becomes an overseas delivery? Will this affect ebayers, supermarket prices, postage prices etc? Does anybody know? Does anybody care or is it only about oil?


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I have had MANY pm's from members informing me that you all love to nit pick and gang up, it is a favourite pass time apparently for most of you (not all, there are nice members also). A couple wanted to post on this thread but were afraid
> 
> NOWHERE on this thread I have I singled out one member, and endlessly picked at or name called them. But that is exactly what has happened to me here, just as it did in the Cliff Richard paedophile thread.
> 
> This forum needs to take a long hard look at itself..... No other forum acts like this. It is just damn soul destroying.


Aww, boo hoo :crying:


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

Sweety said:


> OP. Why have you changed your location from Scotland to McWil ......... Pat Butcher?
> 
> Do you really think that's funny?


What are you talking about?


----------



## Guest (Aug 25, 2014)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> But you do intend it to be disrespectful to me?


Get over yourself, i think the saying goes something like 'you ain't all that' ior somesuch...


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> But you do intend it to be disrespectful to me? Speaks volumes!  I do not take one man's word, I have lived in Scotland all my life, and KNOW my own reasons for wanting iScotland. Now you insult my intelligence!
> 
> I have not over simplified anything, I have said many times it is a complicated matter that I could not possibly discuss fully on an open forum.
> 
> ...


*ticks off box on train wreck thread bingo card* OP claims to have gotten many secret pms supporting them from people are afraid to post :Yawn:.


----------



## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

:Yawn::Yawn:


BelindaCarlisle said:


> But you do intend it to be disrespectful to me? Speaks volumes!  I do not take one man's word, I have lived in Scotland all my life, and KNOW my own reasons for wanting iScotland. Now you insult my intelligence!
> 
> I have not over simplified anything, I have said many times it is a complicated matter that I could not possibly discuss fully on an open forum.
> 
> ...


:Yawn::Yawn::Yawn::Yawn:rrr:rrr:rrr:


----------



## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

jon bda said:


> Forum vote to have ITS thing changed to 'pretty unintelligent' perhaps?


And referring to me as an "it" is okay?

The endless childish posts aimed at me, proves my case. This forum is nasty!

Jon and Sweety sit all day just waiting for me to post, and pounce with their insults and false aspersions, the minute I do dare post.


----------



## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> But you do intend it to be disrespectful to me? Speaks volumes!
> 
> I have not over simplified anything, I have said many times it is a complicated matter than I could not possibly discuss fully on an open forum.
> 
> ...


I seeee! So, because I have a different opinion to you, I am disrespectful and rude? I stated an opinion - something to which I am as equally entitled to as you are. You're simply quoting Alex Salmond's ideals for the currency and border controls (or lack thereof) and completely disregarding the fact that Westminster (which will continue to be England's government, even if it isn't Scotland's) will also have their own ideas about what will and will not happen.

You keep calling this a debate - you keep saying you can see this from both sides, but you really cannot. You simply see what Alex Salmond - one man - wants you to see, and you see his words as Gospel, but if Scotland gains its independence, the English government have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT TO INSTALL BORDER CONTROLS IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY as you will be, if you so wish.

From what I've read, you simply see what you want to see - and Independent Scotland (which is entirely your prerogative) with all the benefits of a unity with England which will no longer exist. You gain your own government and the right to do whatever you want with in your own country, but that gives England (I'm really trying to stop myself being drawn into a Them and Us mindset ) equal right to do what she sees best for her side of the English/Scottish border, so what your Alex Salmond thinks bears absolutely no weight with the English government if you gain independence.

Please answer my questions RE What IF English government install border controls on the English side of the border? Please answer my Questions RE the Pound if England decides you don't have any entitlement to the Pound at all and don't want you to have it? Please describe where you think you'll get an army from when you don't even have an army to start with?

Or are you just going to take the best of the UK and leave England with the sh!t? What gives your Alex Salmond the right to just take what is the UK's?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Nicky10 said:


> *ticks off box on train wreck thread bingo card* OP claims to have gotten many secret pms supporting them from people are afraid to post :Yawn:.


Oh, apparently, she has had 'loads' of PMs telling her what a terrible person I am.


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> But you do intend it to be disrespectful to me? Speaks volumes!  I do not take one man's word, I have lived in Scotland all my life, and KNOW my own reasons for wanting iScotland. Now you insult my intelligence!
> 
> I have not over simplified anything, I have said many times it is a complicated matter that I could not possibly discuss fully on an open forum.
> 
> ...


You obviously havent been on many other forums lol 
Stop throwing your toys out of the pram when people disagree! 
All this 'ive had PMs about people on this forum' crap is boring. Its not a favourite past time, the current favourite past time on this forum is the offended by everything brigade !!!


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Sweety said:


> Oh, apparently, she has had 'loads' of PMs telling her what a terrible person I am.


That's the handy thing about pms in this scenario. Posting them on the forum is against the rules, so you can have all the support you want.

All forums have disagreements and groups that don't get along, especially over emotive topics. It's not all going to be sunshine and rainbows because we all like animals.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2014)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> And referring to me as an "it" is okay?


If you had posted in the intro forum then we might of had some idea about you...


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Sweety said:


> Oh, apparently, she has had 'loads' of PMs telling her what a terrible person I am.


T'was me, my sweetness. I have nothing better to do than stir a simmering pot. You nasty, terrible piece of work 

Anyways, how are you doing? Haven't spoken to you in aaaages


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## BelindaCarlisle (Aug 12, 2014)

jon bda said:


> If you had posted in the intro forum then we might of had some idea about you...


I did introduce myself in the Introductions section as soon as I joined, as Mark's introduction pm advised. Check the threads I have posted SECTION OF MY PROFILE and early posts.


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

jon bda said:


> If you had posted in the intro forum then we might of had some idea about you...


Im deeply offended you have mentioned the intro to the forum as I have never posted in that section. I feel this is a personal attack on me, Ive had lots of people send me PMs supporting me in this and also these people are too scared to speak out about their lack of posts in the intro section too. LOL


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Lauren5159 said:


> T'was me, my sweetness. I have nothing better to do than stir a simmering pot. You nasty, terrible piece of work
> 
> Anyways, how are you doing? Haven't spoken to you in aaaages


Oh, I'm SO relieved to hear it was you defaming my character! 

I'm fine thanks, sharing your page on FB. Your collars are gorgeous. x


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> Im deeply offended you have mentioned the intro to the forum as I have never posted in that section. I feel this is a personal attack on me, Ive had lots of people send me PMs supporting me in this and also these people are too scared to speak out about their lack of posts in the intro section too. LOL


Damn...i see now i just got right in and posted pictures of my pussy*... 


* cats


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> And referring to me as an "it" is okay?
> 
> The endless childish posts aimed at me, proves my case. This forum is nasty!
> 
> Jon and Sweety sit all day just waiting for me to post, and pounce with their insults and false aspersions, the minute I do dare post.


There's someone with a whopping ego.

I have far better things to do than "sit all day just waiting for you to post".

Get over yourself for Heaven's sake.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

This is my first post on this subject, I have read it all and yes or no will make no difference to me.

It is not Scotland or Scottish people we dislike on the whole, it is your attitude to any one who dares to disagree with you. You do not like being talked down to,neither do we.
If it is a yes vote I wonder how you will feel when your beloved Alec breakes all his promises. He will, all politicians do and you regret going solo.

If you find us soul destroying why do you keep coming back. You keep threatening to go but never do.

I think you must be a very sad person looking to prove you are always right.

I must admit I feel sorry for you. Now pick holes in this


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## Lauren5159 (May 28, 2013)

Sweety said:


> Oh, I'm SO relieved to hear it was you defaming my character!
> 
> I'm fine thanks, sharing your page on FB. Your collars are gorgeous. x


Oh, thank you  I'm glad you like them... It's great fun making them 

They're made in Scotland, don't cha know?!  x


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> NOWHERE on this thread have I singled out one member


Actually you singled me out. The post is there for members to see.:001_smile:

Nevertheless, I actually have a really serious question to ask and it has taken me most of today to compose it in a manner that might be acceptable to you.

So if it's not too much trouble and it's not demanding too much of your time may I ask it?:001_unsure:


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

BelindaCarlisle said:


> I have not over simplified anything, I have said many times it is a complicated matter that I could not possibly discuss fully on an open forum.


Yet you opened this topic on an open forum. Not one question has been answered in detail as far as I can see.



> I instead referred any members who are genuinely interested on the matter to google "The White Paper" SNP. It explains more fully the SNP plans for iScotland.


Have you actually researched using independent sources which back this marketing? What are the pitfalls and downsides? What fallback exist if these plans do not work out? That plan B for the pound springs to mind. Sure Scotland could renege on taking up a share of the UK national debt if you don't get it.. what would that do in terms of investment and future credit rating in the long term?

Pros and cons to get a balanced view, however uncomfortable it is, should be essential for a decision of this magnitude.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2014)

Sweety said:


> There's someone with a whopping ego.
> 
> I have far better things to do than "sit all day just waiting for you to post".
> 
> Get over yourself for Heaven's sake.


Me and you should get married maybe, then we could sit around together!!! Oh, wait...
:lol:


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

jon bda said:


> Damn...i see now i just got right in and posted pictures of my pussy*...
> 
> 
> * cats


Im deeply offended you posted pictures of your pussy in the intro section...... Its far too much for a first post


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2014)

ClaireLouise said:


> Im deeply offended you posted pictures of your pussy in the intro section...... Its far too much for a first post


I'm sure i posted in the pussy specific area...i think...


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Lauren5159 said:


> Oh, thank you  I'm glad you like them... It's great fun making them
> 
> They're made in Scotland, don't cha know?!  x


Yes, I do know, and also, wind, rain and intelligence are all made in Scotland.

Who knew?


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> Im deeply offended you have mentioned the intro to the forum as I have never posted in that section. I feel this is a personal attack on me, Ive had lots of people send me PMs supporting me in this and also these people are too scared to speak out about their lack of posts in the intro section too. LOL


Well, I'm deeply offended that nobody has said that they like my hair.

I've had LOADS of PMs from members who do like my hair, but they're just too afraid to go public with that.

I am taking this personally.

I don't think I posted in the Intro Section either and I'm deeply offended about that too now.

I think certain people sit round all day, waiting for me to post, so that they can NOT say that they like my hair.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

soulful dog said:


> I'm still as yet undecided, but edging towards yes. To be honest, I'm more concerned about the creeping privatisation of the NHS and the fact that there seem to be more and more people needing help of things like food banks in our country than anything that is just 'unknown' or 'uncertain'.


Ahhhhh but I am a strong believer that for some (and I do know there are many who can't afford to feed their families and I'm not referring to them), the availability of food banks means they know they'll get food & means they don't prioritise their money

We didn't have a lot growing up and things were tight - but you paid to put food on the table over holidays, ****, booze and drugs .... in many cases now, food seems to come at the bottom of the list - that's wrong and it's wrong that they can get bailed out



soulful dog said:


> my big regret is that too many people will vote no because of fear of the unknown and not in any great belief that either independence or staying together is the best option.


Totally agree - and I guess I'm one of them

I don't really have political alliance to any one party - they all have good bits & bad bits .... I like a lot of what the SNP stands for / their beliefs BUT there are some things that are core to their beliefs that I just can't bring myself to wholeheartedly agree with and that's also what worries me if we get independence eg their stance on nuclear power ... we currently need it, it's one of the biggest employers in my county (tourist and farming county so we need other industries & there's already hardly any jobs for the youngsters as there's no industry / no big employers)


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## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

Sweety said:


> Well, I'm deeply offended that nobody has said that they like my hair.
> 
> I've had LOADS of PMs from members who do like my hair, but they're just too afraid to go public with that.
> 
> ...


LOL

Well, im offended that your offended about my lack of comment regarding your hair.

I feel this is a personal attack on myself and will refrain from posting on this thread again (well for at least 4 minutes)

******* Flounces away*****


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

ClaireLouise said:


> LOL
> 
> Well, im offended that your offended about my lack of comment regarding your hair.
> 
> ...


Well, my hair is a glorious thatch, it has a mind of it's own.

I will be back on the 19th, to gloat, when it achieves total Independence.

Well, unless I feel the need to whine and fling a few accusations around, in which case, I'll probably be straight back.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Well I'm quite offended that no-one ever tells me they like my earrings. And also that no-one else guessed my real name was Pat Butcher. :cryin:

Took a very astute mind to work that one out :yesnod:


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Well now Pat love. I'm deeply offended that you're deeply offended.

I've become so offended that I can't think straight.

I'm drinking red wine and taking it all personally.


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