# Soilder beheaded for wearing a help the heros T shirt



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

'Shooting' in Woolwich, South-east London - police close streets | The Sun |News

don't know how accurate it is
But what the hell is
this country coming too


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

absolutely shocking, whatever next, whats wrong with people today???


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

The sick b's tried to film the attack WTH


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

willa said:


> The sick bastards t ried to film the attack WTH


Is is correct that two of the attackers have been shot can anyone confirm?


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## Ann Elizabeth (May 12, 2013)

Have just read this and am watching news, am utterly appalled and dismayed by this, and am too "gob smacked" to say anything else :sad:


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

DT said:


> Is is correct that two of the attackers have been shot can anyone confirm?


BBC have just said they're in hospital !!! Why bother?? Should have just left the B*****ds to bleed to death, like the poor soldier!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

henry said:


> BBC have just said they're in hospital !!! Why bother?? Should have just left the B*****ds to bleed to death, like the poor soldier!


You mean we are paying to try and save them


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

DT said:


> You mean we are paying to try and save them


Yep! Exactly!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

henry said:


> Yep! Exactly!


So assuming our cops shot them: confused: what a waste of ammunision


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## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

im not denying that they are sick b's but your topic title is just sensationlist speculation.

A soldier wearing a help for heroes tshirt was hacked to death.

That is not the same thing as being hacked to death FOR wearing a help the heroes tshirt. You are assuming the motive is the tshirt when more likely it is because he is a soldier (or even more likely- religion*).



> *The soldier, wearing a Help for Heroes t-shirt, was attacked with knives and meat cleavers following a car crash. It is claimed the two men who carried out the attack shouted 'Allahu Akbar', which means God is great in Arabic.


semantics maybe, and doesnt detract from how awful this whole thing is


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

WOW the police took 20mins to arrive at the scene ?!!? So these monsters were left with the public for 20 mins omg.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

porps said:


> im not denying that they are sick bastards but your topic title is just sensationlist speculation.
> 
> A soldier wearing a help for heroes tshirt was hacked to death.
> 
> ...


I agree I think this is a terrorist attack.

His death is too sad and sick for words, I'm on the edge of tears hearing it and feel sick.

His poor poor family , my thoughts go out to them not that means a thing in such circumstance . May he RIP :crying:


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

DT said:


> You mean we are paying to try and save them


Interviewing and gaining intelligence from the suspects is KEY

We need to understand why this happened and if any more are planned


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> Interviewing and gaining intelligence from the suspects is KEY
> 
> We need to understand why this happened and if any more are planned


Awh! yes, silly me
So we can torture em then


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I've been following it breaking on the radio all afternoon. It is grotesque. That poor man, how he must have suffered.  The manner of it makes it all the more revolting.


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## loubyfrog (Feb 29, 2012)

Just seen the footage on ITV news.....Horrific is all i can say!!

The most horrendous thing is that the poor soldiers family were probably over the moon that in was "safe" at home in the U.K and not on duty in Afghanistan or Iraq. 

R.I.P Soldier.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Oh so the Police arrived when it was all over...big surprise there then......

I am so sick to my stomach for this poor soldier and his family...what sort of filth and scum does that to another human being. I hope the sick f*****s die a slow and agonising death...shame the tax payer is funding their hospital stay

This Country needs to get some balls and deal appropriately with terrorist scum


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Is it disgusting that it took the police 20 minutes to get there


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

OMG ITV News have just shown a clip of the possible attacker talking to the cameras. Hands covered in blood,holding some slicer OMG


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

willa said:


> OMG ITV News have just shown a clip of the possible attacker talking to the cameras. Hands covered in blood,holding some slicer OMG


Yes and chanting too!
Seems that the assumptions that it is a terrorist attack could be correct

The poor poor family


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## loubyfrog (Feb 29, 2012)

DT said:


> Is it disgusting that it took the police 20 minutes to get there


The 2 maniacs were wandering around speaking to bystanders like they were just chatting about the weather.

When i watched the footage,i couldn't her the sound properly and thought one of them had tried to resuscitate the soldier as he was covered in blood.....until i saw the cleaver and knife clutched in his hand....made me feel physically sick.

Why are they showing this on T.V......it is exactly what the deranged lunatics want!!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

loubyfrog said:


> Why are they showing this on T.V......it is exactly what the deranged lunatics want!!


I think you could be right louby!
Its on sky now


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

loubyfrog said:


> The 2 maniacs were wandering around speaking to bystanders like they were just chatting about the weather.
> 
> When i watched the footage,i couldn't her the sound properly and thought one of them had tried to resuscitate the soldier as he was covered in blood.....until i saw the cleaver and knife clutched in his hand....made me feel physically sick.
> 
> Why are they showing this on T.V......it is exactly what the deranged lunatics want!!


I agree..these filth have no place on our tvs..it could only happen in this Country that two evil murderers are standing around chatting to the cameras whilst waiting for the Police to come along.

If I were friend or family of that poor soldier..seeing that vile filth standing there with my loved ones blood on his hands would send me over the edge.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

chichi said:


> I agree..these filth have no place on our tvs..it could only happen in this Country that two evil murderers are standing around chatting to the cameras whilst waiting for the Police to come along.
> 
> If I were friend or family of that poor soldier..seeing that vile filth standing there with my loved ones blood on his hands would send me over the edge.


I suspect they will be under armed guard whilst at the hospital too
Can you imagine what they will be costing the tax payer


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

loubyfrog said:


> The 2 maniacs were wandering around speaking to bystanders like they were just chatting about the weather.
> 
> When i watched the footage,i couldn't her the sound properly and thought one of them had tried to resuscitate the soldier as he was covered in blood.....until i saw the cleaver and knife clutched in his hand....made me feel physically sick.
> 
> Why are they showing this on T.V......it is exactly what the deranged lunatics want!!


I've said the self same thing on another thread started by Willa,. Seems to me the worse something is the more they want to televise it, sensationalising something like this for the sake of it is beyond reason.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

You also have to ask wth were people recording it ?!!!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

willa said:


> You also have to ask wth were people recording it ?!!!


Well the attackers, assuming they were terroists would have put it on the internet.

the public for evidence one would like to hope/think

I personally wouldn't want to look


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

*now do you realise where we are heading?​*


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

It appears that maybe there were some very brave women at the scene.
Not that that means anything
It is terrible.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

I think the reporting on the news was disgraceful, i had to pause it to watch once the kids had left the room . 

I had ITV on and they was showing graphic content right from the outset at 6pm , only halfway through the news did they then say this is going to show graphic images showing what they had already show   

His poor family have to see those images .


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

DT said:


> I suspect they will be under armed guard whilst at the hospital too
> Can you imagine what they will be costing the tax payer


Lets hope they stop the f*****s from having any pain meds..they deserve to suffer like hell.

As for the tax payer footing the bill..so whats new..if our Government werent so wishy washy in this Country..this kinda sh1t wouldnt happen.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

DT said:


> Is is correct that two of the attackers have been shot can anyone confirm?


saw that both were shot but alive and in hospital.


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

Find a nice secure room at the poor guys barracks to drop them off at...

RIP fella


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## NEW2CATS (Aug 28, 2009)

This is close to where I live and I know there is a small police station nearby. I suspect the police took so long to arrive because they waited for the armed officers.

Everyone is so shocked that it has happened here and that video they are showing on the news is just mad


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Makes my skin shrink and my stomach crawl to think what his poor family must be going through right now

May his soul rest in peace!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

henry said:


> BBC have just said they're in hospital !!! Why bother?? Should have just left the B*****ds to bleed to death, like the poor soldier!


Witness said they stabbed the guy, dragged him to the middle of the road and ran up and down asking people to take their photos...then they hacked at him 'like a piece of meat' and tried to behead him. No names yet, but believed, allegedly, to be Islamist extremists.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Just listening to a witness on BBC News..the Police were all hiding round the corner waiting for Trojan to arrive...*sigh*


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

DT said:


> Is it disgusting that it took the police 20 minutes to get there


It is bad that they took so long, but I doubt they have an armed unit on standby...probably took some time to get all the markesmen together, sure they are not just sitting in the staff room waiting for a call.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

loubyfrog said:


> The 2 maniacs were wandering around speaking to bystanders like they were just chatting about the weather.
> 
> When i watched the footage,i couldn't her the sound properly and thought one of them had tried to resuscitate the soldier as he was covered in blood.....until i saw the cleaver and knife clutched in his hand....made me feel physically sick.
> 
> Why are they showing this on T.V......it is exactly what the deranged lunatics want!!


They were begging people to take their photos apparently LF> and like they wer ewaiting for the police to come and shoot them, they made no attempt to run off.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Calvine said:


> It is bad that they took so long, but I doubt they have an armed unit on standby...probably took some time to get all the markesmen together, sure they are not just sitting in the staff room waiting for a call.


Well, I assumed each station now had an armed unit attached to it
And certain officers trained in arms!


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Calvine said:


> It is bad that they took so long, but I doubt they have an armed unit on standby...probably took some time to get all the markesmen together, sure they are not just sitting in the staff room waiting for a call.


This is London fgs. If there arent marksmen on call in London then we may as well just hold up flags saying "terrorists welcome"


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

chichi said:


> This is London fgs. If there arent marksmen on call in London then we may as well just hold up flags saying "terrorists welcome"


Each station has officers that are trained in firearms- they don't necessisarily carry those arms but sign them in and out
I think the first on the scene included a WPC who was armed, but they waiting at the end of the street for the heavy guns to arrive!
Maybe that was there orders


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## click (Dec 23, 2011)

Calvine said:


> It is bad that they took so long, but I doubt they have an armed unit on standby...probably took some time to get all the markesmen together, sure they are not just sitting in the staff room waiting for a call.


I would have thought London was snided out with armed cops nowadays.

I've just read that one of the cops that shot 'em was a policewoman.Glad about that seeing that these religious maniacs consider a womans place is in the kitchen.


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## NoSpecialFeaturesHere (Nov 23, 2008)

Why are they showing pictures of the killers??? That's what they wanted! 

That poor, poor guy. Horrifying.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

I just have no words, heart broken for his family :sad:


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## missmaisie (May 10, 2013)

As I said in the other thread, it is currently *speculation* that these men are Islamic fundamentalist terrorist. Furthermore, they are from LONDON, not some obscure Middle Eastern country. As horrendous as this tragedy is, and my thoughts are with this poor man's family, and with the witnesses, it's important to remember that we still don't have all the *facts*, and speculation over religious terrorism is scaremongering.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

missmaisie said:


> As I said in the other thread, it is currently *speculation* that these men are Islamic fundamentalist terrorist. Furthermore, they are from LONDON, not some obscure Middle Eastern country. As horrendous as this tragedy is, and my thoughts are with this poor man's family, and with the witnesses, it's important to remember that we still don't have all the *facts*, and speculation over religious terrorism is scaremongering.


Get a grip...are you watching the news??????

Im really angry right now for what has happened to this poor soldier so please stop spewing the do-gooding crap all over Pet Forums..

Watch the news...it might keep you from typing a load of b0llox


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

missmaisie said:


> they are from LONDON


I'm sure they've never been on holiday to an all inclusive terrorist training camp either...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

missmaisie said:


> As I said in the other thread, it is currently *speculation* that these men are Islamic fundamentalist terrorist. Furthermore, they are from LONDON, not some obscure Middle Eastern country. As horrendous as this tragedy is, and my thoughts are with this poor man's family, and with the witnesses, it's important to remember that we still don't have all the *facts*, and speculation over religious terrorism is scaremongering.


Such as life is, you will never stop people speculating!
AND whilst WE still have *JUST * freedom of speech so you will have! 
There are many radical groups so, no, not necessarily al queda, but sure as god made eggs it will be one of em! 
And your bit about London just made me laff


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

NEW2CATS said:


> This is close to where I live and I know there is a small police station nearby. I suspect the police took so long to arrive because they waited for the armed officers.


Exactly. Firearms may have been miles away.



chichi said:


> Just listening to a witness on BBC News..the Police were all hiding round the corner waiting for Trojan to arrive...*sigh*


Would you rather there were more killings? 



Calvine said:


> It is bad that they took so long, but I doubt they have an armed unit on standby...probably took some time to get all the markesmen together, sure they are not just sitting in the staff room waiting for a call.


This ^^ It's not viable to fund lots of firearm units and there have been drastic cuts recently across the force. Perhaps Cameron will reconsider these cuts now.



DT said:


> Well, I assumed each station now had an armed unit attached to it
> And certain officers trained in arms!


Untrue. See above re cuts.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

DT said:


> Is it disgusting that it took the police 20 minutes to get there





chichi said:


> Just listening to a witness on BBC News..the Police were all hiding round the corner waiting for Trojan to arrive...*sigh*


Please do not blame the police for this savagery - if your relation was an every day copper on the beat would you want him/her to launch in there unarmed against two inhuman individuals who have just hacked someone to death



missmaisie said:


> As I said in the other thread, it is currently *speculation* that these men are Islamic fundamentalist terrorist. Furthermore, they are from LONDON, not some obscure Middle Eastern country. As horrendous as this tragedy is, and my thoughts are with this poor man's family, and with the witnesses, it's important to remember that we still don't have all the *facts*, and speculation over religious terrorism is scaremongering.


I am sorry I usually respect others views but all I can think to say is just shut up and think of this lads family


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## missmaisie (May 10, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> Please do not blame the police for this savagery - if your relation was an every day copper on the beat would you want him/her to launch in there unarmed against two inhuman individuals who have just hacked someone to death
> 
> I am sorry I usually respect others views but all I can think to say is just shut up and think of this lads family


I have already said that his family and the witnesses are in my thoughts, as it must be awful for them now.

But explain to me how this is any different to the similar attacks you see in the Middle East. Are they both not equally as horrific?


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## Chillicat (Jan 14, 2012)

I caught this on the news just after I had got home from work. 
I feel so sorry for the family of the poor man killed. 
I felt sick hearing about it and then seeing it all on the news was awful, IMO it shouldn't have been shown as not only is it giving the attackers exactly what they wanted, friends and family of the poor man may have stumbled across it. I had to switch it off as it is just disgusting that this is what the world is coming to & it is far to close to home for me at the moment as I have a brother currently serving in Afghan and he was once stationed at Woolwich Barracks.
So sad RIP


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

I am truly heartbroken for him and his family, what an horrific act of pure violence 

I hope they torture them then kill the evil monsters, they don't deserve to breathe the same air as his family.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> Please do not blame the police for this savagery - if your relation was an every day copper on the beat would you want him/her to launch in there unarmed against two inhuman individuals who have just hacked someone to death
> 
> I am sorry I usually respect others views but all I can think to say is just shut up and think of this lads family


I am not blaming the police , I am a supported of ALL of our forces and emergency services.
Just seemed a long time for them to arrive.


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

missmaisie said:


> But explain to me how this is any different to the similar attacks you see in the Middle East. Are they both not equally as horrific?


Can you link us to one of these similar attacks please...


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

My my my.

Seems I've offended some folks with my post. 

I did apologize when I posted it because I knew it was in bad taste. I meant no disrespect. Just an attempt to bring a bit of levity to an otherwise nasty topic.


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## loubyfrog (Feb 29, 2012)

missmaisie said:


> As I said in the other thread, it is currently *speculation* that these men are Islamic fundamentalist terrorist. Furthermore, they are from LONDON, not some obscure Middle Eastern country. As horrendous as this tragedy is, and my thoughts are with this poor man's family, and with the witnesses, it's important to remember that we still don't have all the *facts*, and speculation over religious terrorism is scaremongering.


I'm far from speculating missmaisie.....Those two lunatics that did this to a innocent soldier who risks his life to make the world a better place are crazy monsters.....THAT'S A FACT!!!!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

DT said:


> I am not blaming the police , I am a supported of ALL of our forces and emergency services.
> Just seemed a long time for them to arrive.


As already mentioned, firearms are not necessarily close by. Not every station has firearms attached. No way should an officer armed with what is basically a stick be going to tackle those lunatics so allegedly had a gun. It would have meant more killing, quite simply. If my OH goes to a report of someone being stabbed, he has to wait for firearms.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

missmaisie said:


> As I said in the other thread, it is currently *speculation* that these men are Islamic fundamentalist terrorist. Furthermore, they are from LONDON, not some obscure Middle Eastern country. As horrendous as this tragedy is, and my thoughts are with this poor man's family, and with the witnesses, it's important to remember that we still don't have all the *facts*, and speculation over religious terrorism is scaremongering.


Doesn't seem much like speculation to me, unfortunately, as according to the Beeb:

"_In footage broadcast by ITV, the alleged attacker says: "We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you."

He adds: "I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same.

"You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you." _"

Quite a few reports that the men were shouting Allahu Akbar (God is Great, traditional Islamic call often used, amongst other things, as a rallying cry in battle - yes, I have studied this somewhat).

Would still be nice to be proven wrong, but at the moment fundamental islamic terrorists is the only real contender.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Spirited said:


> My my my.
> 
> Seems I've offended some folks with my post.
> 
> I did apologize when I posted it because I knew it was in bad taste. I meant no disrespect. Just an attempt to bring a bit of levity to an otherwise nasty topic.


Wrong time, wrong place. 'Attempt to bring a bit of levity'? Are you _drunk_? Go away.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Can't really describe how I feel at this  

I am disgusted, absolutely disgusted. 

Poor man, poor family  

My blood is boiling at the fact that these (not sure how to describe them) are being treated at an NHS hospital! paid for by us tax payers, NHS is a privilege to have, and part of this country which this man was defending in his role as a soldier.


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## missmaisie (May 10, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> Doesn't seem much like speculation to me, unfortunately, as according to the Beeb:
> 
> "_In footage broadcast by ITV, the alleged attacker says: "We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you."
> 
> ...


Aside from the sensationalist tendancies of the ITV news, it is still unconfirmed from any credible source that they did indeed should this.

If indeed they are Islamic fundamentalists, I will be the first to say fair enough. The problem with the sensationalising of Islamic terrorism is that people assume they're foreign, but at least one of them is from London.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

cinammontoast said:


> Wrong time, wrong place. 'Attempt to bring a bit of levity'? Are you _drunk_? Go away.


No. Just a realist in times of grief.
God help you if you ever seen emergency workers having a crack when they are dealing with bad situations.
Different folks deal with adversity in different ways.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

missmaisie said:


> I have already said that his family and the witnesses are in my thoughts, as it must be awful for them now.
> 
> *But explain to me how this is any different to the similar attacks you see in the Middle East. Are they both not equally as horrific?[/*COLOR]




I have no idea I am English - you explain/show me how many Christian English people (or just English) live amongst people in the middle east pretending to be part of their community (they had London accents so that is the assumption) and hack a young man to death and try to behead him


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

missmaisie said:


> As I said in the other thread, it is currently *speculation* that these men are Islamic fundamentalist terrorist. Furthermore, they are from LONDON, not some obscure Middle Eastern country.


If the one in the video shown on ITV isn't an Islamic extremist then he's certainly doing a jolly good impression of one isn't he? Brainwashed south London boy conveniently forgetting he's been born & bred in this country, spouting $hit about "our women in our lands"... innocent man gets hacked to death in broad daylight by these sick ***** but oh no... we mustn't speculate about what group of scum he claims to represent though in case someone takes offence....do f--- off!


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

DT said:


> Is it disgusting that it took the police 20 minutes to get there


Our police are unarmed.

If they had have gone in there is the possibility there would have been more fatalities.

It takes time for armed police, who cover a large area of London, to arrive on scene ...


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Spirited said:


> No. Just a realist in times of grief.
> God help you if you ever seen emergency workers having a crack when they are dealing with bad situations.
> Different folks deal with adversity in different ways.


That is fair comment, yes people do deal with adversity different, of course they do and I am well aware of the sick sense of humour people dealing with these cases day in day out, but, you would find they would share it amongst themselves, not with the wider community.

If you had an ounce of tact or common sense you would of thought about how people may perceive your comment.


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

Spirited said:


> My my my.
> 
> Seems I've offended some folks with my post.


And your making yourself look an even bigger tool right about now...


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

MissShelley said:


> That is fair comment, yes people do deal with adversity different, of course they do and I am well aware of the sick sense of humour people dealing with these cases day in day out, but, you would find they would share it amongst themselves, not with the wider community.
> 
> If you had an ounce of tact or common sense you would of thought about how people may perceive your comment.


I did dear.
Even prefaced the pic with an apology.

So far have apologized now twice for it.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

missmaisie said:


> Aside from the sensationalist tendancies of the ITV news, it is still unconfirmed from any credible source that they did indeed should this.
> 
> If indeed they are Islamic fundamentalists, I will be the first to say fair enough. The problem with the sensationalising of Islamic terrorism is that people assume they're foreign, but at least one of them is from London.


It appears to be reported on every news source in exactly the same way What exactly is your idea of a credible news source - maybe you would have liked to be there to see it with your own eyes, hear it with your own ears just in case the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 etc etc have manipulated the footage.

I hope you and your own are always safe from such atrocities and can continue your own speculation - that is what you are doing by the way


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

jon bda said:


> And your making yourself look an even bigger tool right about now...


If name calling makes you feel superior be my guest.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Spirited said:


> My my my.
> 
> Seems I've offended some folks with my post.
> 
> I did apologize when I posted it because I knew it was in bad taste. I meant no disrespect. Just an attempt to bring a bit of levity to an otherwise nasty topic.


I can only assume you are young.....guessing you arent from the UK either...


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## missmaisie (May 10, 2013)

Clearly none of you understand how terrorism works. How they pull you in and twist you to their ideas, especially when people are disaffected by life, no matter how good their life is.

I'm out now. My sympathies go out to all the witnesses, and the family of this young man.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

chichi said:


> I can only assume you are young.....guessing you arent from the UK either...


Very good guess.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_my thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends, its made me feel so sick, disgusted and sad.I hope to god his family didnt see any of the footage on the news.
I am not going to mention how i feel about those two B*~*~*~s !!! _


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

Spirited said:


> If name calling makes you feel superior be my guest.


Why do the most serious threads on PF attract posters like this...why not add a thumbs up too...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> Our police are unarmed.
> 
> If they had have gone in there is the possibility there would have been more fatalities.
> 
> It takes time for armed police, who cover a large area of London, to arrive on scene ...


I know officers don't walk around armed
But in special circumstances specially trained firearms officers can be issued with arms quickly. a bit like a riot shield! I wasn;t talking the special armed response units
but then on reflection I don't suppose 20 minutes was that long to pull that together.


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

missmaisie said:


> I'm out now


Can we have the links to 'similar attacks' in the middle east you talked about before please?


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Spirited said:


> I did dear.
> Even prefaced the pic with an apology.
> 
> So far have apologized now twice for it.


What do ya want, a frickin' medal?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

missmaisie said:


> Clearly none of you understand how terrorism works. How they pull you in and twist you to their ideas, especially when people are disaffected by life, no matter how good their life is.
> 
> I'm out now. My sympathies go out to all the witnesses, and the family of this young man.


OMG are you for real................................. Let me see, where do I live????? Northern Ireland check that's right... Hmmm what problems have NI had oh terrorism that's right well bugger me with a fish fork, imagine that......... You can read about your terrorism my dear, and you can have an academic view on it, that's just wonderful... but really don't be so patronising.... You haven't a clue.

Bowing out is a very good idea  Now jog on...................


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

jon bda said:


> Why do the most serious threads on PF attract posters like this...why not add a thumbs up too...


Is that your attempt to look superior again in light of your initial post to me? Others seem to have found a way to express their distaste with my post in a way that shows, maturely, the reasons they didnt like it.
Your posts so far smack of one who only sorely wishes to come across as someone of importance looking down their nose.

Sorry now. Aint impressed.


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

why are people arguing over this? 
someone got hacked to death in the middle of a busy street and some people on here have nothing better to do that cause arguments for the sake of it. grow up! 
RIP Soldier, condolences to the family and friends.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

DT said:


> I know officers don't walk around armed
> But in special circumstances specially trained firearms officers can be issued with arms quickly. a bit like a riot shield! I wasn;t talking the special armed response units
> but then on reflection I don't suppose 20 minutes was that long to pull that together.


What specially trained firearms officers? They're the ones that the rest waited twenty minutes for. There are not usually trained firearms officers hanging round: the _*one*_ trained unit of three officers have to be called from whatever else they're dealing with. I was in Wembley at 2.30. The traffic was horrific: if the Trojan unit are at another incident (they get called to stabbings, anything with a weapon) they need to drop or deal with that then travel to the next incident.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

MissShelley said:


> What do ya want, a frickin' medal?


A medal? No.
I apologized sincerely.
That's all I need to be right with myself.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

missmaisie said:


> Clearly none of you understand how terrorism works. How they pull you in and twist you to their ideas, especially when people are disaffected by life, no matter how good their life is.
> 
> I'm out now. My sympathies go out to all the witnesses, and the family of this young man.


On the contrary, people in the UK are tend to be pretty well acquainted with the root causes and practical application of terrorism - I myself am old enough to remember the ending years of the Irish troubles, and I'm not halfway through three-score years and ten yet.

Not to mention the terrorist cell who exploded bombs on the London Underground and the bus were 3 UK born and raised and one Jamaican born who arrive in the UK at age 5.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Spirited said:


> Is that your attempt to look superior again in light of your initial post to me? Others seem to have found a way to express their distaste with my post in a way that shows, maturely, the reasons they didnt like it.
> Your posts so far smack of one who only sorely wishes to come across as someone of importance looking down their nose.
> 
> Sorry now. Aint impressed.


Oh, do go away.


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

Spirited said:


> Others seem to have found a way to express their distaste with my post in a way that shows, maturely, the reasons they didnt like it.


Like the poster who asked if you were 1, or the poster that asked if you were drunk?

Jog on and find a different thread to troll because after posting that picture on a thread about a dead soldier you ain't making many fans...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> What specially trained firearms officers? They're the ones that the rest waited twenty minutes for. There are not usually trained firearms officers hanging round: the _*one*_ trained unit of three officers have to be called from whatever else they're dealing with. I was in Wembley at 2.30. The traffic was horrific: if the Trojan unit are at another incident (they get called to stagings, anything with a weapon) they need to drop or deal with that then travel to the next incident.


And yes, I said on reflection 20 minutes was not that long to pull that together, Just when reading initially it seemed a long time, and for those involved must have seemed an eternity!

I guess I forget how difficult it is to get around London.
We have a house blow up last week, the police were on the scene within five minutes, the fire engines the same and the air helicopter in less then ten!


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Please stop feeding the Spirited troll, people...


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

******* barbaric. Unbelievable. Don't really know what else to say or think other than expressing my deepest sympathy to the family of the soldier.

May he rest in peace.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

jon bda said:


> Like the poster who asked if you were 1, or the poster that asked if you were drunk?
> 
> Jog on and find a different thread to troll because after posting that picture on a thread about a dead soldier you ain't making many fans...


Notice, I didn't say all. I said most.

Fans isnt what Im after. Stating my opinion, like it or not, is what a forum is all about.

Never you mind the apology to the ones that were bothered by it. Your posts, as Ive stated, mentioned nothing of it and were only meant in the light Ive cast on them.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Spirited said:


> No. Just a realist in times of grief.
> God help you if you ever seen emergency workers having a crack when they are dealing with bad situations.
> Different folks deal with adversity in different ways.


But...they are doing it in semi privacy, it's usually not for consumption by a wider audience.

You however are cracking jokes concerning a horrendous act (or the be precise, the police response to a horrendous act), on a public forum, where you have time to 'think' before you type or even upload a very bad visual joke.


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## Canine K9 (Feb 22, 2013)

People argue on this thread out of all threads? 
R.I.P Solider, you will get justice x


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> But...they are doing it in semi privacy, it's usually not for consumption by a wider audience.
> 
> You however are cracking jokes concerning a horrendous act (or the be precise, the police response to a horrendous act), on a public forum, where you have time to 'think' before you type or even upload a very bad visual joke.


True. Very true.
That is the reason I apologized to the good folks that thought I was being disrespectful.

It is my own quirk that caused me to attempt to bring a bit of humor where it was clearly not appropriate.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

missmaisie said:


> Clearly none of you understand how terrorism works. How they pull you in and twist you to their ideas, especially when people are disaffected by life, no matter how good their life is.
> 
> I'm out now. My sympathies go out to all the witnesses, and the family of this young man.


Can I honestly believe my eyes, are you defending the terrorists now, are you actually making excuses for their horrific deeds, do you honestly believe that that they haven't got a choice, that they don't know right from wrong.

Time you hit the sack hon and dreamt up some more excuses for the despicable bastids that do these horrific acts.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

missmaisie said:


> Aside from the sensationalist tendancies of the ITV news, it is still unconfirmed from any credible source that they did indeed should this.
> 
> If indeed they are Islamic fundamentalists, I will be the first to say fair enough. The problem with the sensationalising of Islamic terrorism is that people assume they're foreign, but at least one of them is from London.


Does it matter where they are from? They are murdering fanatics who have picked at random a young man who was wearing the wrong Tee Shirt. What is this country coming to?


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## CanIgoHome (Oct 25, 2008)

living not too far from woolwich and having family that live just round the corner the barracks too 
its deeply sad to see this happen but why this soldier?? 100's of men and woman work out this barrack 

my thought go to the family and friends of this soldier


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Rip .....my thoughts with this poor man and his family


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Spirited said:


> True. Very true.
> That is the reason I apologized to the good folks that thought I was being disrespectful.
> 
> It is my own quirk that caused me to attempt to bring a bit of humor where it was clearly not appropriate.


Perhaps if it were an American soldier savagely murdered by maniacs on the streets of America...you might not have felt a joke was appropriate...

You need to drop it now because you are beginning to sound troll-like. Even Missmaisie knew when it was time to quit


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

20 minutes can seem like a long time but it can sometimes take me 10 mins to get to my DD school which is 0.5miles as the crow flies but 1 mile by road. People have to be briefed they can't just storm in there.

I can't believe how people can argue on this thread, lets all put a certain person on ignore, they will soon get bored 

Once again my thoughts go to his family, no one should have to go through this let alone see the media circus that is going on. 

Also my thoughts go to the NHS staff that have to work on the evil bar stewards, what must they be feeling like right now but they have no choice


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

cinammontoast said:


> What specially trained firearms officers? They're the ones that the rest waited twenty minutes for. There are not usually trained firearms officers hanging round: the _*one*_ trained unit of three officers have to be called from whatever else they're dealing with. I was in Wembley at 2.30. The traffic was horrific: if the Trojan unit are at another incident (they get called to stagings, anything with a weapon) they need to drop or deal with that then travel to the next incident.


Twenty minutes is nothing in London traffic.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

chichi said:


> Perhaps if it were an American soldier savagely murdered by maniacs on the streets of America...you might not have felt a joke was appropriate...
> 
> :


I think this is an inappropriate thread to argue in but I think that statement without personal knowledge of the poster is just as out of order as the Trojan joke.

Someone has died, terrorism is scary and emotions are running high.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

chichi said:


> Perhaps if it were an American soldier savagely murdered by maniacs on the streets of America...you might not have felt a joke was appropriate...
> 
> You need to drop it now because you are beginning to sound troll-like. Even Missmaisie knew when it was time to quit


You'd be most surprised. Or perhaps not.
If you notice it wasnt the act that I made light of but the word in the post. As Im not from the UK that particular word only brought up one mental image and given that opportunity (though now I do admit was one I should have let pass by) I attempted a bit of humor.

As you'll see from my posts in the future I make faux pas from time to time though none with malice in mind.
And, really dear, how you can find troll like behaviors in apologies (or calling out folks for their attempts at degradation or bullying as youre attempting to do here by trying to silence me) is beyond me.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

My heart is breaking , that is someones , son,brother,grandchild lying dead in that road ...... Why show it ??? It takes a lot to upset me but that has , and why give those Bast---s , any media coverage ... He's a fricking child in my eyes , give him some respect ffs......

As for them , well i would have shot the Basta--s to bits , why should they survive , when that lad was standing up for his country , doing his duty for all of us .... I do not apologise for my anger , my thoughts go out to his family ( so sorry for the loss of your boy) .....

Ok Cameron stop pi55ing about , and act .... 

As for some of the sick humour on here , there is a time and a place , and it is not here you disrespectful piece of Sh1t


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Pointermum said:


> 20 minutes can seem like a long time but it can sometimes take me 10 mins to get to my DD school which is 0.5miles as the crow flies but 1 mile by road. People have to be briefed they can't just storm in there.
> 
> I can't believe how people can argue on this thread, lets all put a certain person on ignore, they will soon get bored
> 
> ...


So true, having to give the sh*ts intensive nursing when the NHS has such limited resources at its disposal...something not right there, but I guess the police wanted them ALIVE so they can 'interview' them in case they are part of a significant organisation which might be planning a massive strike.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Cloudygirl said:


> I think this is an inappropriate thread to argue in but I think that statement without personal knowledge of the poster is just as out of order as the Trojan joke.
> 
> Someone has died, terrorism is scary and emotions are running high.


There is nothing inappropriate about my post...Spirited is from the US .... I strongly believe that if it were a US soldier murdered so horrifically..she would not be posting "funny" pics as light hearted humour.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

tincan said:


> My heart is breaking , that is someones , son,brother,grandchild lying dead in that road ...... Why show it ??? It takes a lot to upset me but that has , and why give those Bast---s , any media coverage ... He's a fricking child in my eyes , give him some respect ffs......
> 
> As for them , well i would have shot the Basta--s to bits , why should they survive , when that lad was standing up for his country , doing his duty for all of us .... I do not apologise for my anger , my thoughts go out to his family ( so sorry for the loss of your boy) .....
> 
> ...


There is no need to apolgize for you anger!
I think many of us feel the same


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## metame (Sep 25, 2009)

It's hard to believe this really happened
I feel sorry for the witnesses and the people who have to now work on the murderers and try and save their sorry lives but most of all i'm sorry for the soldier and his family and my thoughts are with them

i know they had knives and guns but i dont think i could have stood by and watched that


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

tincan said:


> As for some of the sick humour on here , there is a time and a place , and it is not here you disrespectful piece of Sh1t


It was an inappropriate joke the poster has apologized numerous times, no need for name calling. When tensions run high some people use humor as a way of coping I don't think disrespect was actually intended and as soon as the poster realized it had caused upset they apologized.

The terrorists are the ones that deserve the name calling


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Spirited said:


> You'd be most surprised. Or perhaps not.
> If you notice it wasnt the act that I made light of but the word in the post. As Im not from the UK that particular word only brought up one mental image and given that opportunity (though now I do admit was one I should have let pass by) I attempted a bit of humor.
> 
> As you'll see from my posts in the future I make faux pas from time to time though none with malice in mind.
> And, really dear, how you can find troll like behaviors in apologies (or calling out folks for their attempts at degradation or bullying as youre attempting to do here by trying to silence me) is beyond me.


Keep digging


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

If this bitching and bickering goes on, the thead will be closed I imagine...why don't we just focus on the topic? The Forum is for adult discussions, not for slanging matches.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

chichi said:


> There is nothing inappropriate about my post...Spirited is from the US .... I strongly believe that if it were a US soldier murdered so horrifically..she would not be posting "funny" pics as light hearted humour.


Do you know spirited personally? If no then it is inappropriate because you don't know that.

I think or would hope that the vast majority of people would react with horror about such a brutal attack irrespective of what country the soldier was from. Would you feel less horror if the soldier was American? I felt utter disgust at the boston bombings and I'm sure there was a thread here no one was less concerned because they were American


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Cloudygirl said:


> It was an inappropriate joke the poster has apologized numerous times, no need for name calling. When tensions run high some people use humor as a way of coping I don't think disrespect was actually intended and as soon as the poster realized it had caused upset they apologized.
> 
> The terrorists are the ones that deserve the name calling


...

Excuse me ..... then it should not have been posted in the first place .....

knowing how highly emotive this thread is , a little sensitivity and empathy goes a long way ...

Oh and by the way i worked on a psych ward for 10 yrs , so don't tell me about dark humour being used as a coping mechanism ... But i tell you right or wrong it was used behind a closed office door, not posted on a public forum ....


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Cloudygirl said:


> Do you know spirited personally? If no then it is inappropriate because you don't know that.
> 
> I think or would hope that the vast majority of people would react with horror about such a brutal attack irrespective of what country the soldier was from. Would you feel less horror if the soldier was American? I felt utter disgust at the boston bombings and I'm sure there was a thread here no one was less concerned because they were American


When I heard about the Boston bombings I felt gutted..I would not have dreamed of posting anything disrespectful.

What has happened today is closer to home..I am beyond gutted..Im angry..p1ssed off and depressed..

Now can you take your Mod hat off...cos it dont fit


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Come on guys .....she has apologised ....evry one is upset and angry ...but this is a time to unite not fall out xxxx


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## Chillicat (Jan 14, 2012)

tincan said:


> My heart is breaking , that is someones , son,brother,grandchild lying dead in that road ...... Why show it ??? It takes a lot to upset me but that has , and why give those Bast---s , any media coverage ... He's a fricking child in my eyes , give him some respect ffs......
> 
> As for them , well i would have shot the Basta--s to bits , why should they survive , when that lad was standing up for his country , doing his duty for all of us .... I do not apologise for my anger , my thoughts go out to his family ( so sorry for the loss of your boy) .....
> 
> ...


Completely agree with you
Given you rep because you have been able to put my feelings into words much better then I ever could.


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## missmaisie (May 10, 2013)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> Can I honestly believe my eyes, are you defending the terrorists now, are you actually making excuses for their horrific deeds, do you honestly believe that that they haven't got a choice, that they don't know right from wrong.
> 
> Time you hit the sack hon and dreamt up some more excuses for the despicable bastids that do these horrific acts.


For goodness sake, do you people not know how to read?! I've already said _numerous_ times that I feel awful for all the witnesses and this man's family. I *DO NOT* condone terrorism, never have, never will. What I think is wrong is that people are making more and more of a bigger thing out of this than, right now, there needs to be.

A young man has died needlessly. There is no need to add to that by speculating about why it happened. Furthermore, there is a very valid reason why terrorism is present, and the current wave is attacking the West. It is because we have interfered too much in SOVEREIGN states.

Let me make myself abundantly clear. *I do not, nor have I ever condoned terrorism or attacks like this.*

My argument is that we should look at what *our* government does to allow terrorist groups to grow and thrive.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

People, can we please stop talking about Spirited? _Please?_ Thank you 

I have to say, personally I'm not surprised the police waited for armed backup. I suspect that given the views of the attackers it is highly likely Police would have been considered valid targets. In even untrained hands a knife can do a lot of damage to a lot of people very quickly, and unlike a gun it doesn't run out of ammunition. The police had no idea how good those guys were with their weapons, and if they had any skill at all, they could perhaps have injured or even killed a number of officers. After all, a machete is designed to chop through thich undergrown and branchs, and a meat cleaver for jointing animals, so it would only take a couple of wild blows to land to do some serious damage.


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

chichi said:


> When I heard about the Boston bombings I felt gutted..I would not have dreamed of posting anything disrespectful.
> 
> What has happened today is closer to home..I am beyond gutted..Im angry..p1ssed off and depressed..
> 
> Now can you take your Mod hat off...cos it dont fit


Mod hat? What is a mod hat. I have strong feelings about this too.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

missmaisie said:


> For goodness sake, do you people not know how to read?! I've already said _numerous_ times that I feel awful for all the witnesses and this man's family. I *DO NOT* condone terrorism, never have, never will. What I think is wrong is that people are making more and more of a bigger thing out of this than, right now, there needs to be.
> 
> A young man has died needlessly. There is no need to add to that by speculating about why it happened. Furthermore, there is a very valid reason why terrorism is present, and the current wave is attacking the West. It is because we have interfered too much in SOVEREIGN states.
> 
> ...


Still here, thought you were off??


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## missmaisie (May 10, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Still here, thought you were off??


 to you too love.


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Only on Petforums


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> Come on guys .....she has apologised ....evry one is upset and angry ...but this is a time to unite not fall out xxxx


Thank you. And to those that have defended me whether I deserved it or not.
Also to those that have given me negative reps I respect your decision.

It was not my intention to offend as Ive stated and its not time for people to attack others for my mistake.

God bless the folks of the downed man and may he rest in peace.


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

missmaisie said:


> My argument is that we should look at what *our* government does to allow terrorist groups to grow and thrive.


Nail on head

something to do with human rights maybe1


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

paddyjulie said:


> Only on Petforums


You couldn't make it up could you


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

DT said:


> You couldn't make it up could you


You really couldn't ...*shakes head*


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

missmaisie said:


> to you too love.


You'd never mentioned once about government "love", you spouted self righteous partnonising BS "love", about how people knew nothing "love", and should read.... You also said you were bowing out... So this person who as lived round terrorism for her whole life ( Army Brat, from NI) was just wondering why you were back?


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Thinking of this poor man's family tonight, someone, somewhere has lost a son


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> Come on guys .....she has apologised ....evry one is upset and angry ...but this is a time to unite not fall out xxxx


I think you will find most people were 'united' in their horror at what had happened today...to have that post a picture of a man dressed as a giant condom on this thread trying to make a joke about it, hole dug...


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

OMG just seen the footage on the news! It's the most disturbing thing I have ever seen. Absolutely awful! Sick b******s should rot in hell.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

missmaisie said:


> As I said in the other thread, it is currently *speculation* that these men are Islamic fundamentalist terrorist. Furthermore, they are from LONDON, not some obscure Middle Eastern country. As horrendous as this tragedy is, and my thoughts are with this poor man's family, and with the witnesses, it's important to remember that we still don't have all the *facts*, and speculation over religious terrorism is scaremongering.


on the BBC clip the one man states "In my country this happens every day"


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

OK
I know we are not here to speculate
BUT, watching this again on the news, it just all stikes me as odd
If those two were attached to some radical movement surely they would have been out to hurt, maim, murder as many people as they could, and the fact that they just sat there and waited to be arrested.
All seems very odd! And scary
But have a feeling there could be some repurcussions from this


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

missmaisie said:


> For goodness sake, do you people not know how to read?! I've already said _numerous_ times that I feel awful for all the witnesses and this man's family. I *DO NOT* condone terrorism, never have, never will. What I think is wrong is that people are making more and more of a bigger thing out of this than, right now, there needs to be.
> 
> A young man has died needlessly. There is no need to add to that by speculating about why it happened. Furthermore, there is a very valid reason why terrorism is present, and the current wave is attacking the West. It is because we have interfered too much in SOVEREIGN states.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely right.
Unfortunately, because of emotions, this is probably the wrong thread to state that position (voice of experience)

Would probably make for a great thread though. Im sure most are unaware of how "Al qaida" even came into being.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

DT said:


> OK
> I know we are not her to speculate
> BUT, watching this again on the news, it just all stikes me as odd
> If those two were attached to some radical movement surely they would have been out to hurt, maim, murder as many people as they could, and that fact that they just sat there and waited to be arrested.
> ...


a few arrests, then more London riots probably, hopefully this time the cops and army wont run the other way....if ours cant handle it France, Spain and Israel could show how


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

DT said:


> OK
> I know we are not her to speculate
> BUT, watching this again on the news, it just all stikes me as odd
> If those two were attached to some radical movement surely they would have been out to hurt, maim, murder as many people as they could, and that fact that they just sat there and waited to be arrested.
> ...


From reading all the FB statuses and likes going round on others statuses it's quite worrying to say the least. :sad:


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Meezey said:


> From reading all the FB statuses and likes going round on others statuses it's quite worrying to say the least. :sad:


......

Just a pack of arseh--es on there , most of the time it is done for attention , FB , is a cesspit for stuff like this


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Meezey said:


> From reading all the FB statuses and likes going round on others statuses it's quite worrying to say the least. :sad:


We can hope they are only words of anger and that things will calm in a few days
But I have an eerie feeling the Phoenix may be about to rise


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Spirited said:


> You are absolutely right.
> Unfortunately, because of emotions, this is probably the wrong thread to state that position (voice of experience)
> 
> Would probably make for a great thread though. Im sure most are unaware of how "Al qaida" even came into being.


See now this is the problems I see, people are being told not to assume, and then low and behold you then make assumptions like missmaise that people are clueless...

I really at this stage, don't need to be educated, or corrected or preached to, and I'm sure everyone in this thread feels the same, yes it's an emotive topic and that often throws logic out of the window... So let people feel how they feel, I personally felt physically sick at this mans death, I don't and won't be preached to about the rights and wrongs of my feeling.... Nor do I need a excursion in to academia............. I want to feel angry, outraged and disgusted at this evil act and I will thank you.

FYI my dogs KC name is MELAISEYS FALLEN HERO chosen by me, so that should give you an idea of how emotive this subject is for me.......................................................................


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## Guest (May 22, 2013)

tincan said:


> ......
> 
> Just a pack of arseh--es on there , most of the time it is done for attention , FB , is a cesspit for stuff like this


Totally agree...when we got burgled last month we started getting messages a few days later saying we must be happy they had caught the people that did it...random woman at the bottom of our street talking crap on facebook...


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Meezey said:


> See now this is the problems I see, people are being told not to assume, and then low and behold you then make assumptions like missmaise that people are clueless...
> 
> I really at this stage, don't need to be educated, or corrected or preached to, and I'm sure everyone in this thread feels the same, yes it's an emotive topic and that often throws logic out of the window... So let people feel how they feel, I personally felt physically sick at this mans death, I don't and won't be preached to about the rights and wrongs of my feeling.... Nor do I need a excursion in to academia............. I want to feel angry, outraged and disgusted at this evil act and I will thank you.
> 
> FYI my dogs KC name is MELAISEYS FALLEN HERO chosen by me, so that should give you an idea of how emotive this subject is for me.......................................................................


I don't see any maliciousness in this thread
Just emotions running high!
Some people come on and vent their anger,
Others go with the innocent until proven guilty
then there are those that see good in everyone
but we are each entitled to air our views
That's forum life, another thread much like this one will replace this one in a few days

dunno why I quoted you really because pretty much agree with all you have said


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Meezey said:


> See now this is the problems I see, people are being told not to assume, and then low and behold you then make assumptions like missmaise that people are clueless...
> 
> I really at this stage, don't need to be educated, or corrected or preached to, and I'm sure everyone in this thread feels the same, yes it's an emotive topic and that often throws logic out of the window... So let people feel how they feel, I personally felt physically sick at this mans death, I don't and won't be preached to about the rights and wrongs of my feeling.... Nor do I need a excursion in to academia............. I want to feel angry, outraged and disgusted at this evil act and I will thank you.
> 
> FYI my dogs KC name is MELAISEYS FALLEN HERO chosen by me, so that should give you an idea of how emotive this subject is for me.......................................................................


And thats why I said itd be a great topic for a different thread.
Emotions are high. No one was telling you whether yours were appropriate or whether youd need educated.

I was addressing the comments about the opinion of why these attacks take place in the first place.


----------



## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

My blood run cold and I shed several tears... I have members of family in both forces.... That poor poor lad and his family....This has frightened the sh*t out of me.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spirited said:


> Is that your attempt to look superior again in light of your initial post to me? Others seem to have found a way to express their distaste with my post in a way that shows, maturely, the reasons they didnt like it.
> Your posts so far smack of one who only sorely wishes to come across as someone of importance looking down their nose.
> 
> Sorry now. Aint impressed.


Any one of us who has a child will feel deep horror and revulsion at the news, anyone with a child in the forces will also feel deep fear. If you actually regret your attempt at light hearted humour maybe an idea to actually delete it. You don't need to be a parent to feel revulsion and deep empathy for another human being who has died in vile horrific circumstances. If it was your brother, cousin, friend how would you feel. Please just delete it and stop trying to justify it


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

jon bda said:


> I think you will find most people were 'united' in their horror at what had happened today...to have that post a picture of a man dressed as a giant condom on this thread trying to make a joke about it, hole dug...


And sometimes as the adult we have to rise above when things are said ....

I agree with DT somethin dont smell right to me .....terrorists dont stand round conversing with the public ....


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> And sometimes as the adult we have to rise above when things are said ....
> 
> I agree with DT somethin dont smell right to me .....terrorists dont stand round conversing with the public ....


They come over as lone wolves to me Suzy
Which is sad because potentially this could cause some terrible trouble
The EDL are gathering, and the riot police are on standby, maybe hearsay, but fear not


----------



## loukodi (Oct 27, 2010)

REST IN PEACE SOLDIER 

The events today have made my blood boil and feeling sick, how anyone can do that to another human being is beyond me. My thoughts to the family and friends of the young soldier, killed for supporting our troops. I hope you find peace and justice is served.

Feel sorry for the staff in the hospitals treating these vile things

To the government - time to wake up?


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> Any one of us who has a child will feel deep horror and revulsion at the news, anyone with a child in the forces will also feel deep fear. If you actually regret your attempt at light hearted humour maybe an idea to actually delete it. You don't need to be a parent to feel revulsion and deep empathy for another human being who has died in vile horrific circumstances. If it was your brother, cousin, friend how would you feel. Please just delete it and stop trying to justify it


I wasnt trying to justify it. I was explaining its inception. Ive even gone so far as to apologize for any hurt Ive caused. Several times.

The post has been deleted. 



suzy93074 said:


> And sometimes as the adult we have to rise above when things are said ....
> 
> I agree with DT somethin dont smell right to me .....terrorists dont stand round conversing with the public ....


Couldn't agree with this more.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DT said:


> They come over as lone wolves to me Suzy
> Which is sad because potentially this could cause some terrible trouble
> The EDL are gathering, and the riot police are on standby, maybe hearsay, but fear not


They seemed phsycotic to me ....mad in the head ....and yes its going to cause huge unrest


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Breaking news
Riot police in Woolwich reportedly containing English defence league!

Sincerely hope this is a storm in a teacup


----------



## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

missmaisie said:


> As I said in the other thread, it is currently *speculation* that these men are Islamic fundamentalist terrorist. Furthermore, they are from LONDON, not some obscure Middle Eastern country. As horrendous as this tragedy is, and my thoughts are with this poor man's family, and with the witnesses, it's important to remember that we still don't have all the *facts*, and speculation over religious terrorism is scaremongering.


This is the first time that I have ever been rude to a PF member but you seriously need to get your head out of your arse and open your eyes! Have you seen the news footage, did your hear what was been said? Speculation my arse.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirited said:


> Couldn't agree with this more.


So you agree with me then


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DT said:


> So you agree with me then


Absolutely.

EDIT

and with what missmassie is trying to say. Which amount to the same thing really.


----------



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Sickening, my heart goes out to that poor soldier and his family


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Spirited said:


> I wasnt trying to justify it. I was explaining its inception. Ive even gone so far as to apologize for any hurt Ive caused. Several times.
> 
> *The post has been deleted.*


thank you.

Just watched a chap on the news, he said whatever group had said they condemned what happened but felt it was understandable. He said no it is not, its not understandable. I agree it isn't it is absolutely horrific.

I think this is one of the most awful things I have ever heard in my life - people who plant bombs are despicable but they can make a pretence at distancing them from the death & destruction they cause but physically to do such an act to any living being are well I don't know what to say I find it terrifying.

I hoped to be a nana in the not to distant future this makes me fear for what sort of world we now live in


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> I hoped to be a nana in the not to distant future this makes me fear for what sort of world we now live in


Coupled with what is happening to our world makes it equally disturbing
Bees, Hedgehogs, squirrels , toads the list goes on, in half a century they have seen a decline in numbers that could make them extinct .


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Wondering why forensics are so interested in that red car at the scene


----------



## Guest (May 22, 2013)

DT said:


> Wondering why forensics are so interested in that red car at the scene


It was reported on the radio they ran the guy over first, perhaps it was their car?


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

missmaisie said:


> Aside from the sensationalist tendancies of the ITV news, it is still unconfirmed from any credible source that they did indeed should this.
> 
> If indeed they are Islamic fundamentalists, I will be the first to say fair enough. The problem with the sensationalising of Islamic terrorism is that people assume they're foreign, but at least one of them is from London.


If a cat had kittens in a kipper box - would that make them kippers! Wake up and smell the coffee!


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

DT said:


> Coupled with what is happening to our world makes it equally disturbing
> Bees, Hedgehogs, squirrels , toads the list goes on, in half a century they have seen a decline in numbers that could make them extinct .


 I must be an old fashioned biddy because if witnessed something so utterly terrible I would weep for the poor man and his family I wouldn't be able to film or photo it, I wouldn't be thinking about religion or politics either would be thinking of his mum and dad, any siblings, grandparents etc. This really does fill me with total horror


----------



## Kingo (Sep 16, 2012)

Anger and emotions are running deep across the globe and my Facebook friends this evening due to the horrific murder of a British Soldier on the streets of London. Initially my thoughts and prayers go out to his poor family and friends, may you rest in peace a brother in arms.

As a veteran myself I look toward UK central Government for divine retribution for this cowardly act and be warned this must be manged quickly, efficiently and decisively towards these two murdering scum. If not then the Government will only have itself to blame for the backlash that will inevitably arrive and is obvious due to the emotional outbursts currently being portrayed upon social media!

We are not happy and this needs dealing with fecking now Mr Cameron, it's about time you started to earn your fecking wages!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Kingo said:


> Anger and emotions are running deep across the globe and my Facebook friends this evening due to the horrific murder of a British Soldier on the streets of London. Initially my thoughts and prayers go out to his poor family and friends, may you rest in peace a brother in arms.
> 
> As a veteran myself I look toward UK central Government for divine retribution for this cowardly act and be warned this must be manged quickly, efficiently and decisively towards these two murdering scum. If not then the Government will only have itself to blame for the backlash that will inevitably arrive and is obvious due to the emotional outbursts currently being portrayed upon social media!
> 
> We are not happy and this needs dealing with fecking now Mr Cameron, it's about time you started to earn your fecking wages!


I fear that imaginary *line* could have been crossed today
but rest assured Prison will not be a cushy ride for these two!
However, for some reason your post comes across a provocative to me.


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Personally ive been horrified by some of the comments coming down my feed on facebook....seems some are jumping at the opportunity to preach hate and racism ....


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

DT said:


> I fear that imaginary *line* could have been crossed today
> but rest assured Prison will not be a cushy ride for these two!
> However, for some reason your post comes across a provocative to me.


I have to agree a line has been crossed, the only thing that can be right for such an awful atrocity is the death penalty.

My sons best friend is in the forces I have known this young man since he was a boy and he calls me mum, I fear more for him now than from any bullet in afghan


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> Personally ive been horrified by some of the comments coming down my feed on facebook....seems some are jumping at the opportunity to preach hate and racism ....


But wasn't this horrific attack racist? Or does racism only work one way?


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Ang2 said:


> But wasn't this horrific attack racist? Or does racism only work one way?[/Q
> 
> More religious than racist ....this is two extremist ....not all muslims are like this...which many seem to be forgetting ....


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Ang2 said:


> But wasn't this horrific attack racist? Or does racism only work one way?


The bigger picture is that it was the act of two men regardless of their race.
Did they seek that soldier out because of his race or did they seek him out because of affiliation?

When 911 took place here there were some horrendous attacks on anyone that looked Middle Eastern (US citizens). People beaten. Shops burned. And worse.

If let run amok people will most certainly do some heinous things in the name of vengeance. Up to and including demanding their govt retaliate against......who exactly? Muslims because Allah Akbar was mouthed?

I think this has been what missmassie has been trying to say all along. With emotions running high people are quick to attack someone who doesn't look equally outraged.

Our govt's know this. It's had the US in wars the last 10 years. Most of it was approved of until the hatred subsided and people started asking questions.

just my 2 cents


----------



## Kingo (Sep 16, 2012)

DT said:


> I fear that imaginary *line* could have been crossed today
> but rest assured Prison will not be a cushy ride for these two!
> However, for some reason your post comes across a provocative to me.


sorry DT didn't mean to come across as provocative 
as for prison sorry but it will be a cushy ride for them, prison is a cushy place these days the prisoners have so many rights


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Spirited said:


> The bigger picture is that it was the act of two men regardless of their race.
> Did they seek that soldier out because of his race or did they seek him out because of affiliation?
> 
> When 911 took place here there were some horrendous attacks on anyone that looked Middle Eastern. People beaten. Shops burned. And worse.
> ...


But it *wasn't* regardless of their race!


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Ang2 said:


> But it *wasn't* regardless of their race!


Why do you say this?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Kingo said:


> sorry DT didn't mean to come across as provocative
> as for prison sorry but it will be a cushy ride for them, prison is a cushy place these days the prisoners have so many rights


prison maybe cushy! but the inmates wont be quiet so gentle


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DT said:


> prison maybe cushy! but the inmates wont be quiet so gentle


If its anything like American prison they will have them segregated. Doesn't mean they will be safe just means it'll be a bit tougher to get to them.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirited said:


> If its anything like American prison they will have them segregated. Doesn't mean they will be safe just means it'll be a bit tougher to get to them.


That's pretty much what will happen here, but our prisons are a lot softer here! shame they cant serve their time in San Quintin (think that's the one)
and our Po's do a pretty good job, so would be harder for anyone to get to them, BUT have a sneaky feeling that there will be a few prepared to turn a 'blind eye' over this one!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Ang2 said:


> But wasn't this horrific attack racist? Or does racism only work one way?





suzy93074 said:


> Ang2 said:
> 
> 
> > But wasn't this horrific attack racist? Or does racism only work one way?[/Q
> ...


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

DT said:


> suzy93074 said:
> 
> 
> > Much as I would like to agree with you on this Ang I fear that Suzy could be right on this one, and that the attack were religion flamed!
> ...


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Kingo said:


> sorry DT didn't mean to come across as provocative
> as for prison sorry but it will be a cushy ride for them, prison is a cushy place these days the prisoners have so many rights


No it won't. Prisoners have a sense of honour, crazy though it seems. They will be made very uncomfortable there, IMO.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Ang2 said:


> DT muslims are a race!  Its the same thing.


Wrong  Muslim=a religion, not a race. You can be whatever religion you like from wherever. There are Catholics in Pakistan, for example. And Catholic Churches, shock, horror!


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Ang2 said:


> DT muslims are a race! Its the same thing.


As someone pointed out already Muslim is a religion and not a race.
And, incidentally, because one race kills a member of another race ( had these Muslims been Chinese, Japanese, Mexican etc) and killed a black person, it still doesn't mean it was racially motivated.


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Doesn't matter how you want to dress it up. It was a racist attack. Muslim/terrorist attacks are always against non-muslims. That's racially motivated!


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Ang2 said:


> Doesn't matter how you want to dress it up. It was a racist attack. Muslim/terrorist attacks are always against non-muslims. That's racially motivated!


So if a white Muslim were to kill a white Catholic, that would still constitute a racially motivated crime?
:confused1:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

The soilder hacked to death was a war hero

Soldier shed body armour to save comrade | British Forces News


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Spirited said:


> So if a white Muslim were to kill a white Catholic, that would still constitute a racially motivated crime?
> :confused1:


If a muslim murders an infidel in the name of Allah, yeah!


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Ang2 said:


> If a muslim murders an infidel in the name of Allah, yeah!


Ang2 you have a misguided concept of what is racial and what is religious/ideological/political.

Racial motivated abuse is the act of abusing someone or treating him/her differently or unfairly on the basis of *race* not theological differences.

Hope that helps


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Spirited said:


> Ang2 you have a misguided concept of what is racial and what is religious/ideological/political.


And who are you to decide who is misguided and who is not

hope this helps


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DT said:


> And who are you to decide who is misguided and who is not
> 
> hope this helps


Hey now. I admit when I've crossed a line. At times my sense of humor bites me in the ass but I learn from my mistakes.
Thats who I am!

:lol:


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Does the Koran teach peace and harmony and toleration of others? I honestly don't know but my impression is that it doesn't.

It's a religious motivated attack from all reports, not racial. How factual the reports are, I don't know. Sounds as though the two men involved were on something.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Does the Koran teach peace and harmony and toleration of others? I honestly don't know but my impression is that it doesn't.
> 
> It's a religious motivated attack from all reports, not racial. How factual the reports are, I don't know. Sounds as though the two men involved were on something.


Think they were maybe Somali's maybe on the wacky baccy


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Spirited said:


> Ang2 you have a misguided concept of what is racial and what is religious/ideological/political.
> 
> Racial motivated abuse is the act of abusing someone or treating him/her differently or unfairly on the basis of *race* not theological differences.
> 
> Hope that helps


I am far from misguided. I Have actually read the Koran and speak Urdu and worked in a muslim country. Don't patronise me!

Muslim fanatics are racist against non believers ie most countries of the Western World. Muslim fanatics are racist against all UK citizens and citizens of non muslim countries. In fact, most muslim countries are racist against non muslim countries.

Muslim Countries are The Most Racist in the World | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Is curious as to what Spirited posted.*


----------



## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

What a disgusting crime.  I would wait until more details are known before speculating on everything. Reading the article, it looks almost like a silly tabloid.


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Ang2 said:


> I am far from misguided. I Have actually read the Koran and speak Urdu and worked in a muslim country. Don't patronise me!
> 
> Muslim fanatics are racist against non believers ie most countries of the Western World. Muslim fanatics are racist against all UK citizens and citizens of non muslim countries. In fact, most muslim countries are racist against non muslim countries.
> 
> Muslim Countries are The Most Racist in the World | FrontPage Magazine


Oh dear.
I wasn't being patronizing.

I was actually trying to show the difference between racial intolerance and religious intolerance.

I do have to question how far you reached to make your point by citing a rather right wing site that derives the point that muslims are racist because they are the dominant religion in the countries decided by "someone" as the most racist.
What really shocks me is the idea that America is the least racist of countries.

From your article:
"Meanwhile the most tolerant countries in the world include United States"
Here I thought the rest of the world assumed Amewrica was still a country full of red necked biggots just itching to lynch a black man (now *that's* racism)

For future reference, if you read an article and in the first line you see "decades of liberal programming" printed, you can guarantee yourself you're stepping into the twilight zone of "reporting".


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Spirited said:


> Oh dear.
> I wasn't being patronizing.
> 
> I was actually trying to show the difference between racial intolerance and religious intolerance.
> ...


My point being, that most muslim countries are racist against non muslim countries. Radical teachings encourage hatred towards non believers.


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Ang2 said:


> My point being, that most muslim countries are racist against non muslim countries. *Radical teachings encourage hatred towards non believers.*


I understand your point. And happen to agree that extremists are encouraged to hate people of different religions.

What you're not understanding though is that religious intolerance does not equate to racial intolerance.

Race on race hate crimes equate to racial intolerance.

If a black muslim kills a white christian it is not racist unless the black man killed the white man because of the color of his skin (or any variation of skin color. No disrespect meant to any people of color)


----------



## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Spirited said:


> I understand your point. And happen to agree that extremists are encouraged to hate people of different religions.
> 
> What you're not understanding though is that religious intolerance does not equate to racial intolerance.
> 
> ...


We will have to agree to disagree!


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Ang2 said:


> We will have to agree to disagree!


I like that. No sense in getting all mean with each other.


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DogLover1981 said:


> *Is curious as to what Spirited posted.*


A rather distasteful picture. Well, the picture wasn't but the timing and lack of respect for the emotions in the thread certainly was.
Im kind of ashamed I let my quirky sense of humor override my sense of ethics, tbh.


----------



## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

A senior officer has formally confirmed he was military.

I just feel awful that his family/friends and serving colleagues have had to see the appaling pictures of it and now you have to see the scum on the front of papers in the most sickening pictures.

To the unknown soldier, may you rest in peace xxx


----------



## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

That lady, Ingrid ( sorry can't remember her surname) was amazingly brave to do what she did. Those attackers could have gone for her ! And those other women who guarded the victim's body until the emergency services turned up. Crazy.

Poor man and his family :sad::sad::sad::sad:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> Ang2 said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong  Muslim=a religion, not a race. You can be whatever religion you like from wherever. There are Catholics in Pakistan, for example. And Catholic Churches, shock, horror!
> ...


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

Oh for christ sake...

STOP ARGUING AND HAVE SOME RESPECT!!!!

Everyone is entitled to their own views, speculation or not. This poor man has being needlessly murdered and instead of showing respect and keeping the peace you're all arguing with each other. How about everyone just stops fighting and keeps the peace on this thread.

It's a forum, have your views but please find the right time and place to put them!

RIP SOLDIER!
xxx


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

The attack was politically/religion motivated not racially ...this poor man was murdered because he was a soldier - what if he had been a black solider? are you saying they would not have killed him??? 

To say all muslim countries hate non muslim countries is ridiculous and it is this kind of ignorance which incites more hate and violence which empowers the extremists/fanatics of this world ...thats what they want - hate and violence and intolerance.

I watched the EDL last night coming out in force to show what exactly??? 

All they showed me is that they are opportunistic thugs who used the death of this man as a reason to throw bottles at the police and incite hatred .... 

The men who killed this young man were hateful and evil and need IMO obliterating ....BUT we as a country should not now divide we need to come together.


----------



## Ann Elizabeth (May 12, 2013)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> Oh for christ sake...
> 
> STOP ARGUING AND HAVE SOME RESPECT!!!!
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better!


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> Oh for christ sake...
> 
> STOP ARGUING AND HAVE SOME RESPECT!!!!
> 
> ...


I dont think we are arguing - we have all paid our respects to this poor man .......these sorts of discussions are happening all over the news and all over the country ....

I will say again RIP and my thoughts are with his family......


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> I dont think we are arguing - we have all paid our respects to this poor man .......these sorts of discussions are happening all over the news and all over the country ....
> 
> I will say again RIP and my thoughts are with his family......


I didn't want to start yet another argument, yes you've all paid your respects but you've spent 20 pages discussing this and commenting on a 'troll' - folk all over the web will be arguing to, i'm sure if he was your son, you'd be struggling right now - I know I would, that's for damn sure. The way I see it, what if one of the man's family comes across this thread or something else online? They're going to be so upset!! Sorry for my views, and no doubt you have some sort of comeback but that's the way I see it.


----------



## smudgiesmummy (Nov 21, 2009)

R.I.P to the soldiers family and friends ... SHOCKING to how this world as become


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> I didn't want to start yet another argument, yes you've all paid your respects but you've spent 20 pages discussing this and commenting on a 'troll' - folk all over the web will be arguing to, i'm sure if he was your son, you'd be struggling right now - I know I would, that's for damn sure. The way I see it, what if one of the man's family comes across this thread or something else online? They're going to be so upset!! Sorry for my views, and no doubt you have some sort of comeback but that's the way I see it.


Discussion is inevitable .....does not mean we dont respect .....


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

RIP Soldier! What his poor family must be going through


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> Discussion is inevitable .....does not mean we don't respect .....


But you're not discussing - You're arguing!
Infact, i'm getting roped into it now!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> I didn't want to start yet another argument, yes you've all paid your respects but you've spent 20 pages discussing this and commenting on a 'troll' - folk all over the web will be arguing to, i'm sure if he was your son, you'd be struggling right now - I know I would, that's for damn sure. The way I see it, what if one of the man's family comes across this thread or something else online? They're going to be so upset!! Sorry for my views, and no doubt you have some sort of comeback but that's the way I see it.


But there is nothing but support for this poor man on this thread.

People are bound to be inflamed over this atrocity and people display their anger in different ways.


----------



## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Jesthar said:


> He adds: "I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same.
> 
> "You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you." [/I]"
> 
> ...


Firstly, I read the article with shock and horror. RIP soldier and condolences to your friends and family.

If they are UK-born (certainly sounded like it), what "land" is he speaking of? According to the article they "looked" Islamic (WTF?). My personal opinion is that they are neither truly islamic or fundamentalists. I think they are two violent young losers carrying some huge grudge. I am willing to bet that they were also under the influence of some narcotic substance. In other words, I think they are most likely two angry and doped-up young men who couldn't figureeout a better way to get their 15 minutes of fame due to being rather dim and talentless.
Anyone can shout "allahu akbar" while committing a crime: it's not copyrighted.

I hope justice will now prevail.


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

DT said:


> But there is nothing but support for this poor man on this thread.
> 
> People are bound to be inflamed over this atrocity and people display their anger in different ways.


Yes, This is true and I completely understand that (i'm not a monster)
but surely 20 pages is enough? Most of what i've read - and yes, I trawled the 20 pages - are people arguing with 'Spirited'


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Folk on facebook are calling the people who didnt stop to help scum! ..What on earth could they have done?

I think its time people started thinking of the families involved who are going through hell at the moment! Not judging people or squabbling about why they did it or anything else.


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

harley bear said:


> Folk on facebook are calling the people who didnt stop to help scum! ..What on earth could they have done?
> 
> I think its time people started thinking of the families involved who are going through hell at the moment! Not judging people or squabbling about why they did it or anything else.


I've just read about somebody slating the police for being 20 minutes 'late' although they didn't think about how they needed armed police to control the situation


----------



## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> I've just read about somebody slating the police for being 20 minutes 'late' although they didn't think about how they needed armed police to control the situation


Its just silly! The police have done all they can...and a bloody good job at that! These men are still alive and will now get whats coming to them! 
I dont know what people expected the police to do? The poor guy was probably dead within seconds.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> I've just read about somebody slating the police for being 20 minutes 'late' although they didn't think about how they needed armed police to control the situation


Yes! I did that But it was shock instinct when hearing the first accounts! On reflection, now that we are learning more of the events I would actually say that 20 minutes were pretty damd good!

Now who exactly is continuing with the 'petty' fallouts?


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

harley bear said:


> Its just silly! The police have done all they can...and a bloody good job at that! These men are still alive and will now get whats coming to them!
> I dont know what people expected the police to do? The poor guy was probably dead within seconds.


Indeed.
The police did a great job from what i've heard on the news! What could they have done? The poor man will have being dead within seconds like you said - and as for people slating the bystanders - what could they have done, and how would they do it with 2 murderers standing next to the body with a gun, a knife and a meat cleaver?

People seem to be slating without thinking about it


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> Yes, This is true and I completely understand that (i'm not a monster)
> but surely 20 pages is enough? Most of what i've read - and yes, I trawled the 20 pages - are people arguing with 'Spirited'


I dont see 20 pages dedicated to Spirited at all yes she said something silly and got pulled up for it - but it moved on -

people have a right to discuss the reasons and fall out from this IMO...


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

DT said:


> Yes! I did that But it was shock instinct when hearing the first accounts! On reflection, now that we are learning more of the events I would actually say that 20 minutes were pretty damd good!
> 
> Now who exactly is continuing with the 'petty' fallouts?


Yes, 20 minutes was 'pretty damn good' and fair play to you for changing your mind about the police in this situation - Of course you were in shock, everybody was and i'm quite proud you've not stuck to thinking the police were too slow.
Although, I don't remember once mentioning the word 'petty' - All I said, which you'll know if you read back was that people were arguing and trolling.


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> I dont see 20 pages dedicated to Spirited at all yes she said something silly and got pulled up for it - but it moved on -
> 
> people have a right to discuss the reasons and fall out from this IMO...


Not 20 pages, but the majority of pages have being dedicated to Spirited.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> I dont see 20 pages dedicated to Spirited at all yes she said something silly and got pulled up for it - but it moved on -
> 
> people have a right to discuss the reasons and fall out from this IMO...


Spirited came into the thread around half way thought if my memory serves me correctly! I specifically remember as I had been on the thread from the begining and when I saw them post I did check is they were a new member as I had never seem them on the forum before


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

DT said:


> Spirited came into the thread around half way thought if my memory serves me correctly! I specifically remember as I had been on the thread from the begining and when I saw them post I did check is they were a new member as I had never seem them on the forum before


I will admit defeat, I thought Spirited had commented way before halfway through


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

DT said:


> Spirited came into the thread around half way thought if my memory serves me correctly! I specifically remember as I had been on the thread from the begining and when I saw them post I did check is they were a new member as I had never seem them on the forum before


Exactly ....my mind is frazzled ....hey hoe im not going to argue over who posted more on a thread ...thats just silly - and shows more of a lack of respect than those actually discussing the topic of the thread IMO

Each to their own


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> Exactly ....my mind is frazzled ....hey hoe im not going to argue over who posted more on a thread ...thats just silly - and shows more of a lack of respect than those actually discussing the topic of the thread IMO
> 
> Each to their own


ohhhh I see what you're doing 
YM Said not to argue and then argued. Yes, I am now a slightly embarrassed hypocrite


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> I will admit defeat, I thought Spirited had commented way before halfway through


No problem and yes, the have been a few handbags a dawn on the thread, but casting that aside everyone is united 100% in their thoughts towards this atrocity, And I honestly don't think there is anything on here even remotely disrespectful towards the poor man.

Yes, there have been some uncalled for remarks against the passers by and the emergency services, but much of this was said in the 'heat of the moment'

and as I said earlier in my own defence, on reflection it was handled well.


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Ang2 said:


> Doesn't matter how you want to dress it up. It was a racist attack. Muslim/terrorist attacks are always against non-muslims. That's racially motivated!


Tosh.



DT said:


> I never say that, the quotes cocked up!
> I said muslim were a religion


Exactly, but your quote made it all good again! It also messed up but to our benefit. I'll edit mine, DT, it wasn't you that made an error.


----------



## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

chichi said:


> Perhaps if it were an American soldier savagely murdered by maniacs on the streets of America...you might not have felt a joke was appropriate...
> 
> :


This reminds me of the incident in Somalia a number of years back, 1993, I think? Two dead Americans were dragged through the streets of Mogadishu. America was OUTRAGED and in fact the US withdrew from Somalia because of it (and the soldiers had not been hacked to death but had died in the helicopter crash).

Americans have a short memory, no?
Sometimes even "quirky" humour is inappropriate.


----------



## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

willa said:


> That lady, Ingrid ( sorry can't remember her surname) was amazingly brave to do what she did. Those attackers could have gone for her !


Couldn't agree more..what a woman. She said she jumped off the bus to help thinking there had been a bad car accident...until she saw the men with the knives & cleavers... 
The fact that she still chose to try to keep one of them talking though instead of running off just shows such bravery.



willa said:


> And those other women who guarded the victim's body until the emergency services turned up. Crazy.


Exactly. Amazing people. Meanwhile scumbag bloke across the road stands filming it all on his mobile from a safe distance. Cowardly t***.



YorkshireMuppet said:


> The way I see it, what if one of the man's family comes across this thread or something else online? They're going to be so upset!!


I'm not sure that I'd be on the net reading a pet forum had one of my loved ones just been hacked to death so think your concerns about them being upset by the comments on this thread are a tad unfounded to say the least.

Of course it is horrific what has happened. That still doesn't mean you should tell people what they can think, post and comment on. You surely know what PF is like by now?...cause a riot in an empty house us lot


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> ohhhh I see what you're doing
> YM Said not to argue and then argued. Yes, I am now a slightly embarrassed hypocrite


Not at all hun you are entitled to your say  I would never say otherwise 

xx


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> Yes, This is true and I completely understand that (i'm not a monster)
> but surely 20 pages is enough? Most of what i've read - and yes, I trawled the 20 pages - are people arguing with 'Spirited'


Spirited posted a very tasteless joke, in cartoon form, back on page nine I think it was. She was criticised for doing so and apologised. She has tried to make amends by deleting the said post and perhaps should have at that point, bowed out and not posted anything else on the subject. But, that post upset a lot of people - rightly so - and since then some folks have treated her following posts as somewhat inflamatory.

She is a new member and kind of got off on the wrong foot and misjudged the mood and depth of feeling of other members, about this emotive subject.


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> They seemed phsycotic to me ....mad in the head ....


thats Crack for ya....


----------



## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

Tinder said:


> I'm not sure that I'd be on the net reading a pet forum had one of my loved ones just been hacked to death so think your concerns about them being upset by the comments on this thread are a tad unfounded to say the least.
> 
> Of course it is horrific what has happened. That still doesn't mean you should tell people what they can think, post and comment on. You surely know what PF is like by now?...cause a riot in an empty house us lot


Oh that's a fair point 


suzy93074 said:


> Not at all hun you are entitled to your say  I would never say otherwise
> 
> xx


Sorry for being a dippy! :biggrin5:xx


Supasilvfoxy said:


> Spirited posted a very tasteless joke, in cartoon form, back on page nine I think it was. She was criticised for doing so and apologised. She has tried to make amends by deleting the said post and perhaps should have at that point, bowed out and not posted anything else on the subject. But, that post upset a lot of people - rightly so - and since then some folks have treated her following posts as somewhat inflamatory.
> 
> She is a new member and kind of got off on the wrong foot and misjudged the mood and depth of feeling of other members, about this emotive subject.


Ohh I missed this also!


----------



## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

RIP to the person who has been murdered. I can't imagine what they went through. Thoughts are with their family.

WRT the Islamic stance, make no mistake that these people do not represent Islam, Allah or Muslims. It's already clear that the islamophobes are rolling round like pigs in mud about the claimed links to Islam. Pathetic. These are clearly 2 sick individuals and that is why they have committed such an act NOT because they claim to be Muslim.

Lots of people will ignorantly condemn Islam for this crime, then in the next sentence say 'they should die too' 'I'll shoot them myself' etc. Islam has a provision for this type of punishment: sharia law. The justice system in Britain means these people will face X number of years in a prison being fed and cared for at the taxpayers expense. They must be quaking in their boots.


----------



## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

YorkshireMuppet said:


> Oh that's a fair point
> 
> Sorry for being a dippy! :biggrin5:xx
> 
> Ohh I missed this also!


Not your fault - the post in question was deleted before you ever posted on the thread.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

From the BBC News:

The family of a serving soldier killed in a suspected terror attack in south-east London have requested his identity is not made public at this stage.​
In case anyone knows I think we should respect their wishes


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Grace_Lily said:


> RIP to the person who has been murdered. I can't imagine what they went through. Thoughts are with their family.
> 
> WRT the Islamic stance, make no mistake that these people do not represent Islam, Allah or Muslims. It's already clear that the islamophobes are rolling round like pigs in mud about the claimed links to Islam. Pathetic. These are clearly 2 sick individuals and that is why they have committed such an act NOT because they claim to be Muslim.


I didnt see or hear the 2 offenders claim any attachment to Islam, but rather that in "THEIR country" (seems thats Nigeria) these events (machette attacks) occur daily..............but its well known that Islam teaches their way is the one true way and all others are infidels...


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> I didnt see or hear the 2 offenders claim any attachment to Islam, but rather that in "THEIR country" (seems thats Nigeria) these events (machette attacks) occur daily..............but its well known that Islam teaches their way is the one true way and all others are infidels...


Are any of our forces actually even serving in Nigeria ?


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> Are any of our forces actually even serving in Nigeria ?


Thats of no consequence to a crack head is it....


----------



## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

From the BBC



> In other developments:
> 
> The Press Association news agency reported that the two men are believed to be British with Nigerian connections


----------



## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> I didnt see or hear the 2 offenders claim any attachment to Islam, but rather that in "THEIR country" (seems thats Nigeria) these events (machette attacks) occur daily..............but its well known that Islam teaches their way is the one true way and all others are infidels...


Really 

There have been witness claims that the men shouted Allahu Akbar, and so obviously in turn lots of people have latched onto the idea that they are Muslims. That does not mean they did this because they are Muslims.

Islamically, murder is the 2nd of the major sins.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

DoodlesRule said:


> From the BBC News:
> 
> The family of a serving soldier killed in a suspected terror attack in south-east London have requested his identity is not made public at this stage.​
> In case anyone knows I think we should respect their wishes


I've just seen his picture plastered on FB. x


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

dexter said:


> I've just seen his picture plastered on FB. x


How sad - attention seeking "look at me I know who it is"


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Grace_Lily said:


> Really
> 
> There have been witness claims that the men shouted Allahu Akbar, and so obviously in turn lots of people have latched onto the idea that they are Muslims. That does not mean they did this because they are Muslims.
> 
> Islamically, murder is the 2nd of the major sins.


I didnt say Islam says *KILL* the infidel did I?

Im betting they were high on drugs, look at the bbc video

As a means of attacking our servicemen its pretty poor, 2 men, 1 car to kill 1 soldier?... every barracks will now have armed guards (our nearest always has had)


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> How sad - attention seeking "look at me I know who it is"


I agree and did forward a link yesterday, had I have known of the families wishes I would not have done such a thing
and today I am NOT listening to any news or reading any papers


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Naturally we are going to get conflicting reports and statisics supporting/denying this, that and whatever.

I think most of us are still in shock and are just floundering in the mud trying to make sense of this atrocity the best way we can.

I keep thinking of his poor family - not having slept - facing a new day and having to deal with yesterday.

Sweet Jesus!


----------



## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

I just can't stop thinking about his poor family, I feel for them so much.


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

DoodlesRule said:


> I have to agree a line has been crossed, the only thing that can be right for such an awful atrocity is the death penalty.
> 
> My sons best friend is in the forces I have known this young man since he was a boy and he calls me mum, *I fear more for him now than from any bullet in afghan*


We are used to the lads getting a bit of abuse/stick for wearing the uniform even from ex school mates. but this makes my blood run cold. I have so many, including my son, in the forces. I also have family in the Police. I fear for them all.
I also have some amazing friends who are Muslims. I am worried for them too now and any back lash directed at them.


----------



## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

I just watched the short video clip of one attacker talking to a camera...saying in his country this happens all the time and he apologised that women had to see this act. He seemed almost calm to me, not the drug crazed maniac I had imagined.


----------



## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Lavenderb said:


> I just watched the short video clip of one attacker talking to a camera...saying in his country this happens all the time and he apologised that women had to see this act. He seemed almost calm to me, not the drug crazed maniac I had imagined.


That is the frightening bit... cold and calculated.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Enoch. Powell ...........................??? many thought him a raving loony ..mmmmmmmmmmmm


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Am I alone in thinking if it had been a black man butchered by a white guy the whole of London would be in flames now?...


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> Am I alone in thinking if it had been a black man butchered by a white guy the whole of London would be in flames now?...


Nope....not alone. Past history of riots backs up your theory


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Grace_Lily said:


> Islamically, murder is the 2nd of the major sins.


However the life of a muslim is sacred, the life of a non-muslim isn't.

It can be claimed, as people like Osama did, that hitting "enemies of islam" isn't a crime it's a necessity. Bit's like


> O prophet! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them. Their abode is hell, and an evil destination it is.





> And fight them until there's no fitnah (polytheism) and religion is wholly for Allah.


On the flip side you have 


> We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be in retaliation for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew all mankind: and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity.


Note the "spreading mischief" get out clause. Terrorist also use the excuse of mohammed himself actually killing children during caravan raids to justify attacking civilian targets.

Haven't studied it but seems the Koran is like the old testament of the Bible, without the moderation of the new. Mohammed's life is taken as an example, without the consideration that times change.

I'm sure those in the know can pull these arguments for violence apart, rightly so. Unfortunately too many "scholars" of Islam, for whatever reason don't.

Edit to add: I haven't heard of condemnation yet from the UK muslim council. Admittingly it may be simply it hasn't been reported in the reports I have seen.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Colliebarmy said:


> Am I alone in thinking if it had been a black man butchered by a white guy the whole of London would be in flames now?...


I dont think people would react any differently everyone is shocked,angry and upset .....My partner is black and I wont tell you what names he called these two scumbags ....why does colour have to be bought into it??? why do we have to make it a us and them?? 

This sort of inflammatory is not going to help.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Well what more can you say..

"Both suspects in the killing of a serving soldier in London were known to security services, senior Whitehall sources have confirmed to the BBC.

One of the suspects is understood to be 28-year-old Muslim convert Michael Adebolajo, according to sources."

So not just randoms..............................................

and..........
The Metropolitan Police says police officers arrived within nine minutes of the first 999 call and armed officers were there within 14 minutes


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Am I alone in thinking if it had been a black man butchered by a white guy the whole of London would be in flames now?...


Really don't think that's helpful...........................


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> I dont think people would react any differently everyone is shocked,angry and upset .....My partner is black and I wont tell you what names he called these two scumbags ....why does colour have to be bought into it??? why do we have to make it a us and them??
> 
> This sort of inflammatory is not going to help.


CB is likely referring to the riots of 2011 where a black man was shot by the police...we all know the rest...terrible time.


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

This really shocked me yesterday I can't understand how anyone could do something like that

I'm also really shocked at the comments from people I know on Facebook and how racist some people are and that all Muslims and "p*kis" should be shot/sent home blah blah blah


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Lavenderb said:


> I just watched the short video clip of one attacker talking to a camera...saying in his country this happens all the time and he apologised that women had to see this act. He seemed almost calm to me, not the drug crazed maniac I had imagined.


I noticed that too.
So many things seem off with this.
Ive never seen a terrorist stand around and give interviews before. or seen a terrorist attack where only one person in a crowd of many was killed.

in one video the question was asked if maybe there was another reason for the attack. an altercation maybe. They said the area that the event took place was a known heavy drug area (no idea never been out of the US let alone to that part of England)
but what really struck me and stays with me is not only how calm the attacker seemed while giving the interview but the calmness of others. in the pic I found the lady dragging the hand cart almost seems unaffected by the attacker and more like just another day walking home from the shops.










I just dont understand at all.


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

LostGirl said:


> This really shocked me yesterday I can't understand how anyone could do something like that
> 
> I'm also really shocked at the comments from people I know on Facebook and how racist some people are and that all Muslims and "p*kis" should be shot/sent home blah blah blah


My DD said the same of Facebook but I think people were stunned and angry yesterday...FB was probably not a true reflection of how people normally behave ?


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

chichi said:


> My DD said the same of Facebook but I think people were stunned and angry yesterday...FB was probably not a true reflection of how people normally behave ?


Yeah I think so but I do think some of the closet racists showed true colours yesterday some people who I thought were intelligent enough not to tar two disgusting men who a whole religion


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

LostGirl said:


> This really shocked me yesterday I can't understand how anyone could do something like that
> 
> I'm also really shocked at the comments from people I know on Facebook and how racist some people are and that all Muslims and "p*kis" should be shot/sent home blah blah blah


I think give things like Wooton Basset, Abu Qatada,7/7 & 9/11 emotions are running very high, people can't understand how people do it, hence the only out let they have is attacking who they perceive to be the threat, to many Muslim extremists have made it like this and the fact the public see these people being "protected" in their eyes makes things worse.

It was the same with the IRA, all Irish/Northern Irish became Terrorists.

The government have themselves to blame for this...and they will get a backlash from it...........


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Spirited said:


> I noticed that too.
> So many things seem off with this.
> Ive never seen a terrorist stand around and give interviews before. or seen a terrorist attack where only one person in a crowd of many was killed.
> 
> ...


again........... in case you missed it...
"*Both suspects in the killing of a serving soldier in London were known to security services, senior Whitehall sources have confirmed to the BBC.

One of the suspects is understood to be 28-year-old Muslim convert Michael Adebolajo, according to sources*."


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

chichi said:


> CB is likely referring to the riots of 2011 where a black man was shot by the police...we all know the rest...terrible time.


I know all about the riots ....and?? its not the same thing at all - young old white black proffessional and non proffessional were all involved in the riots

CB's comment is inflammatory end of


----------



## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Spirited said:


> I noticed that too.
> So many things seem off with this.
> Ive never seen a terrorist stand around and give interviews before. or seen a terrorist attack where only one person in a crowd of many was killed.
> 
> ...


I noticed the woman with the trolley too, just glanced over but carried on walking. Didn't even look shocked IMHO.

It's just an immensely sad but horrific act of pure evil. I'm sickened at it. Poor poor man, I wish I hadn't seen the videos. To think his family has probably seen them is just horrendous.


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Meezey said:


> again........... in case you missed it...
> "*Both suspects in the killing of a serving soldier in London were known to security services, senior Whitehall sources have confirmed to the BBC.
> 
> One of the suspects is understood to be 28-year-old Muslim convert Michael Adebolajo, according to sources*."


I did miss that but that leaves me even more confused.
Known how or for what? How does that translate to people (the lady in the pic in particular) looking as though she feels at ease walking up to and past the nutjob?


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Goldstar said:


> I noticed the woman with the trolley too, just glanced over but carried on walking. Didn't even look shocked IMHO.
> 
> It's just an immensely sad but horrific incident. I'm sickened at it. Poor poor man, I wish I hadn't seen the videos. To think his family has probably seen them is just horrendous.


I wonder if many people even understood what was happening? Not that they didn't care just they didn't understand what they were really seeing?


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Wow so they were known to security ??:skep::skep::frown5:


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Lets face it..anyone who blames a whole race or religion for something that a handful of vile scum have done are not thinking straight.

There has been some unrest on the streets of London but I think it will be short lived.


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Spirited said:


> I did miss that but that leaves me even more confused.
> Known how or for what? How does that translate to people (the lady in the pic in particular) looking as though she feels at ease walking up to and past the nutjob?


You'll never know your reaction to things like that, and I do think it's likely people really at the time didn't understand what they were seeing... Some did though:

"Mr Cameron highlighted the actions of Cub Scout leader Ingrid Loyau-Kennett as demonstrating that "confronting extremism is a job for us all".

"When told by the attacker he wanted to start a war in London, she replied, 'You're going to lose. It is only you versus many.' She spoke for us all," Mr Cameron said.

According to the Daily Telegraph Ms Loyau-Kennett asked the man: "Would you like to give me what you have in your hands?"

"He was covered with blood," she said. "I thought I had better talk to him before he starts attacking somebody else."

She says the suspect told her the dead man was a British soldier, adding: "I killed him because he kills Muslims over there and I am fed up that people kill Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan."


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> Wow so they were known to security ??:skep::skep::frown5:


Yep...I read that Michael A was known to MI5 in one of the reports on the internet. Never know whats true ot not though......


----------



## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chichi said:


> Yep...I read that Michael A was known to MI5 in one of the reports on the internet. Never know whats true ot not though......


It has been confirmed.


----------



## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Meezey said:


> I wonder if many people even understood what was happening? Not that they didn't care just they didn't understand what they were really seeing?


I didn't think of it like that, valid point.


----------



## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Amazing that it was a woman who confronted the killer and also women who tried to assist/comfort the dead soldier. Seems that the male bystanders just stood at a distance and took pics.  Useless.

Well. whatever the truth is, if it was an act of terror, then they were successful. People are scared, angry and many regrettable things are being said and may be done.
I feel so bad for the victim's loved ones. I imagine if he were my spouse or my son....I don't think anyone could get over the pain of a loved one dying such a violent death. I only pray that it was quick and that he didn't suffer too much.


----------



## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> Wow so they were known to security ??:skep::skep::frown5:


Ok now.
This is sounding eerily similar to the Boston Bombings. The main suspect was known to FBI after warnings from Russia yet an attack still happened.
What is going on with our protectors?


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> I know all about the riots ....and?? its not the same thing at all - young old white black proffessional and non proffessional were all involved in the riots
> 
> CB's comment is inflammatory end of


Whether CB was trying to cause trouble...I dont know...not something I would be willing to argue over


----------



## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

chichi said:


> Whether CB was trying to cause trouble...I dont know...not something I would be willing to argue over


Me neither - which is why I will do my utmost to ignore him ....


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Spirited said:


> What is going on with our protectors?


Personally I don't want to live in a police state, somewhere you do actually have some freedom.

Isn't there a quote somewhere.. 


> Hindsight is wonderful. It's very easy to second guess after the fact.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Goblin said:


> Personally I don't want to live in a police state, somewhere you do actually have some freedom.
> 
> Isn't there a quote somewhere..


But something is very wrong when two men can hack to death a soldier in the middle of the street and stand chatting to the passers by for 20 mins...sprewing their vileness for the cameras...particularly when one is known to MI5..he didnt get in their sights for speeding or nicking something out of Tescos. He obviously was a known threat


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Goblin said:


> Personally I don't want to live in a police state, somewhere you do actually have some freedom.
> 
> Isn't there a quote somewhere..


You mean like closed circuit tv cameras everywhere, wiretaps, emails read etc?

You'll get no argument out of me for wanting freedom.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

RIP Lee Rigby. Survived Afghanistan, only to brutally murdered on the streets of his own country by worthless evil scum :'(


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## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

R.I.P Lee x


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

R.I.P Lee

Hopefully the evil scum that took your life so savagely will pay for what they did.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

He was a Father of a two year old son............................... B*stards, my they f'ing rot in hell.......................


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Have tissues ready before you read:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/drummer-lee-rigby-killed-in-woolwich-incident


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

koekemakranka said:


> Amazing that it was a woman who confronted the killer and also women who tried to assist/comfort the dead soldier. Seems that the male bystanders just stood at a distance and took pics.  Useless.


i heard that the scum wouldn't let the men near to try to help, only women


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Absolutley gutted for the loss of this boys life and his family.i would bring back hanging for the scum that so brazen and viciously took his life.a sad day.


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## harley bear (Feb 20, 2010)

Meezey said:


> Have tissues ready before you read:
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/drummer-lee-rigby-killed-in-woolwich-incident


I couldnt read it all!

Such a waste of a young life! so, so sad


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

mollydog07 said:


> Absolutley gutted for the loss of this boys life and his family.i would bring back hanging for the scum that so brazen and viciously took his life.a sad day.


completely agree. 
RIP Lee xxx


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

mollydog07 said:


> Absolutley gutted for the loss of this boys life and his family.i would bring back hanging for the scum that so brazen and viciously took his life.a sad day.


totally Agree.


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

RIP Lee, may you live on in your son and all who's lives you touched. You sounded such a great man x


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Hope his son will always know what a hero his Daddy was :crying:


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Absolutely heartbreaking 

RIP LEE XXX


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## Guest (May 23, 2013)

RIP Lee. My thoughts are with your family and friends.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Can't bear this, life is SO cruel and unfair 

Rest in peace xx thinking of your wife and little son


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

suzy93074 said:


> I know all about the riots ....and?? its not the same thing at all - young old white black proffessional and non proffessional were all involved in the riots
> 
> CB's comment is inflammatory end of


hardly, its a fact that certain factions of our society use any excuse to kick off

there were 100's of police controlling EDL members last night, how many cops were engaged in stopping the London riots?.....obviously not enough!


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

The killers were ranting between "get OUR troops out" (huh?) and "in OUR country this happens daily" (they are English born of Nigerian descent), and bit of "Allahu Akbar", .....drug crazed machette wielding loonies....


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

I do think that we should pull ALL our troops out of every God forsaken dustbowl of a country (wherever) and let the locals get on with it....


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

CB for heavens sake GET A GRIP MAN


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

HATE it how all the papers have the faces of those 2 monsters on their front pages. This is exactly what they wanted ......

Apparently 1 is in a serious condition, hope he dies ......


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

What they did is gonna cause riots.these murderes familys lifes will now be impossible,i believe they where British?


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> The killers were ranting between "get OUR troops out" (huh?) and "in OUR country this happens daily" (they are English born of Nigerian descent), and bit of "Allahu Akbar", .....drug crazed machette wielding loonies....


Honestly think the scum who did this have been given enough air space... I don't care about them anymore... This didn't happen anywhere else it happen on the streets of UK.

This young man left behind a family, a two year old son, there is an image of a young lady sat on the floor with Lee Rigby protecting and comforting this young man in his final minutes, I'm glad those scum weren't the last faces he saw, I am so thankful that he saw love and compassion, it will haunt me that image. Lee Rigby needs to be remember now and that young lady who comforted him, not those who carried this out................


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Scotland Yard: man and woman - both 29 - arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to murder relating to #Woolwich murder of Drummer Lee 

So was this poor man targeted then ? Not just a random attack ?


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

He has been survived by his 2yo son.

It must be so heartbreaking for the family.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

The soldier stood and faced his God Which must always come to pass...
He hoped his shoes were shining Just as brightly as his brass.
"Step forward now, you soldier, How shall I deal with you?
Have you always turned the other cheek? To My Church have you been true?"
The soldier squared his shoulders and Said,"No, Lord, I guess I ain't...
Because those of us who carry guns Can't always be a saint.
I've had to work most Sundays And at times my talk was tough,
And sometimes I've been violent, Because the streets are awfully tough.
But, I never took a penny That wasn't mine to keep...
Though I worked a lot of overtime When the bills got just too steep,
And I never passed a cry for help, Though at times I shook with fear,
And sometimes, God forgive me, I've wept unmanly tears.
I know I don't deserve a place Among the people here...
They never wanted me around Except to calm their fears.
If you've a place for me here, Lord, It needn't be so grand,
I never expected or had too much, But if you don't, I'll understand."
There was a silence all around the throne Where the saints had often trod...
As the soldier waited quietly, For the judgment of his God,
"Step forward now you soldier,
Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,
You've done your time in Hell."


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

With 2 more arrests sounds like he was targeted in a pre planned attack ? So confusing all this


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

DoodlesRule said:


> From the BBC News:
> 
> The family of a serving soldier killed in a suspected terror attack in south-east London have requested his identity is not made public at this stage.​
> In case anyone knows I think we should respect their wishes


Gotta be really hard on them. Knowing what happened and yet seeing his image (let alone name) splashed all over for the sheer publicity of it all.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Spirited said:


> Gotta be really hard on them. Knowing what happened and yet seeing his image (let alone name) splashed all over for the sheer publicity of it all.


It was officially release with the families consent at about 5pm GMT. I'm sure they would have been helped and prepared for this by the MOD, and also I'm sure the poor family who's son's picture from the Welsh Guards was incorrectly used last night and this morning, before this was made official with be very relived that there son is in fact okay............................................................... Also like to add, I think the image has mostly be used as a show of respect rather than publicity and I think it's a better image for them than those before.................


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Meezey said:


> It was officially release with the families consent at about 5pm GMT. I'm sure they would have been help and prepared for this by the MOD, and also I'm sure the poor family who's son's picture from the Welsh Guards was incorrectly used last night and this morning, before this was made official with be very relived that there son is in fact okay...............................................................


If it's not being sensationalized (I cant view your programming except what news clips I see on youtube and no idea how old they really are) then god bless that family.

I just remember how hard it was seeing for months on end (and even now on anniversaries of 9/11) the towers fall knowing a family member died during it all.

Still say it has to be hard on them.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Spirited said:


> If it's not being sensationalized (I cant view your programming except what news clips I see on youtube and no idea how old they really are) then god bless that family.
> 
> I just remember how hard it was seeing for months on end (and even now on anniversaries of 9/11) the towers fall knowing a family member died during it all.
> 
> Still say it has to be hard on them.


Of course it will be............. But still better than the images that filled the pages of late, I know how I'd want to remember my loved one, and it would not be the way the press had it publish in the first instance.......


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

willa said:


> HATE it how all the papers have the faces of those 2 monsters on their front pages. This is exactly what they wanted ......
> 
> Apparently 1 is in a serious condition, *hope he dies* ......


Actually, I really, really hope neither of them die.

Why? Because this is unfortunately starting to look more and more like a cold and calculated scenario designed to garner the greatest possible publicity. They carried out the murder of a soldier in broad daylight in a busy location (possibly a pre-planned attack given the array of weaponry they had to hand), showed no intent of trying to flee the scene, and begged all present to take pictures and videos. In fact, I do wonder if, as they obviously had no intention of running away and deliberately walked towards armed police with their weapons still in their hands, they were hoping to become martyrs via what the Americans call 'suicide by cop' - perhaps not only because of the rewards some fanatical muslims believe they get in their afterlife for being martyred, but getting shot dead by western police would have undoubtedly have caused a very strong reaction amongst other radical muslim factions (particularly those overseas where truth can be more easily distorted) who choose to believe all Western authorities are corrupt and anti-muslim. 

Hope I'm wrong about all that, but right now I can't shake the feeling that is what they were after, especially as the named suspect is known to have had links to some of the more extreme islamic groups.

Anyway, I too also hope that the press gets a grip and gives these 'individuals' no more press, Lee's family can doubtless do without that.


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## Chillicat (Jan 14, 2012)

Meezey said:


> The soldier stood and faced his God Which must always come to pass...
> He hoped his shoes were shining Just as brightly as his brass.
> "Step forward now, you soldier, How shall I deal with you?
> Have you always turned the other cheek? To My Church have you been true?"
> ...


Shed yet a few more tears, but very poignant.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Meezey said:


> Of course it will be............. But still better than the images that filled the pages of late, I know how I'd want to remember my loved one, and it would not be the way the press had it publish in the first instance.......


Oh no doubt and you wouldnt want to be the family that Im sure was wrongly horrified thinking it was their son when the wrong pic went up.
I just think maybe they should have some time to grieve without being constantly reminded on every channel with his pic. Just going by the emotions I was torn with every time my family and I saw it 9/11 that seemed on a 24/7 loop. You couldnt escape it. Had to withdraw from everything it seemed just to get some peace.


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Jesthar said:


> Actually, I really, really hope neither of them die.
> 
> Why? Because this is unfortunately starting to look more and more like a cold and calculated scenario designed to garner the greatest possible publicity. They carried out the murder of a soldier in broad daylight in a busy location (possibly a pre-planned attack given the array of weaponry they had to hand), showed no intent of trying to flee the scene, and begged all present to take pictures and videos. In fact, I do wonder if, as they obviously had no intention of running away and deliberately walked towards armed police with their weapons still in their hands, they were hoping to become martyrs via what the Americans call 'suicide by cop' - perhaps not only because of the rewards some fanatical muslims believe they get in their afterlife for being martyred, but getting shot dead by western police would have undoubtedly have caused a very strong reaction amongst other radical muslim factions (particularly those overseas where truth can be more easily distorted) who choose to believe all Western authorities are corrupt and anti-muslim.
> 
> ...


I was told by a friend in the UK the one that was giving the "interview" for lack of a better term owned a small shop or stand in that area.
Anyone know anything more bout it?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

I really don't know how to say what I feel about this abominable act?

Except perhaps, if there is a God then he should show his face, wipe away all the madmen, our tears and return to us the loved ones they, the madmen, took away.

A tragic and needless loss of life.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I can't believe how much I have welled up over this, normally I don't get very emotional when it comes to news stories. But it's unimaginable what that poor guy must have gone through  

Rest in peace Lee Rigby.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Royoyo said:


> I can't believe how much I have welled up over this, normally I don't get very emotional when it comes to news stories. But it's unimaginable what that poor guy must have gone through
> 
> Rest in peace Lee Rigby.


Anyone with only half a heart couldnt fail to be touched deeply by this, justice will have to be done because if not its going to cause major uproar.

What would happen if the tables were turned and this had happened in their own country?? the same needs to happen to this evil pair.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

I cant understand how the guy who raised his gun at police marksmen is still alive, he should have been gone in an instant, BANG, now the NHS can save him and he will get his day (or week) at the Old Bailey and the trial will cost the taxpayer millions...

and his "life" sentence (of about 20 years) will also be HMG funded


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> I cant understand how the guy who raised his gun at police marksmen is still alive, he should have been gone in an instant, BANG, now the NHS can save him and he will get his day (or week) at the Old Bailey and the trial will cost the taxpayer millions...
> 
> and his "life" sentence (of about 20 years) will also be HMG funded


Its just all so wrong, our nhs are now caring for him, how can he deserve that, the doctors,nurses dont deserve to be put in a position of even having to care for him, how must they feel.

The worse thing ever and that keeps coming into my mind, is the pain his family must be feeling right now and how will they ever try and recover from this, how will they ever carry on again. heartbreaking..........


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Royoyo said:


> I can't believe how much I have welled up over this, normally I don't get very emotional when it comes to news stories. But it's unimaginable what that poor guy must have gone through
> 
> Rest in peace Lee Rigby.


With you here i saw this at 8am...i saw his body lying on a pavement....a total xxxxxxx with what i thought was red gloves? nothing can excuse these xxxxxxds behaviour. this young boy was slaughtered in britian....by two people who didnt give a xxck...hang em.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

mollydog07 said:


> With you here i saw this at 8am...i saw his body lying on a pavement....a total xxxxxxx with *what i thought was red gloves?* nothing can excuse these xxxxxxds behaviour. this young boy was slaughtered in britian....by two people who didnt give a xxck...hang em.


That's what we all wish  Just hope he didn't have to suffer for too long

How hard for those doctors and nurses having to stay professional and treat them like any other patient.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

mollydog07 said:


> With you here i saw this at 8am...i saw his body lying on a pavement....a total xxxxxxx with what i thought was red gloves? nothing can excuse these xxxxxxds behaviour. this young boy was slaughtered in britian....by two people who didnt give a xxck...hang em.


Just so awful, a young man that had served his country was wearing a t-shirt supporting his fellow soldiers, past and present and this made him a target for these vile,horrible extremists............unforgivable, unbelievable theres nothing that can happen to them thats bad enough, that could cause enough suffering.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Goblin said:


> Edit to add: I haven't heard of condemnation yet from the UK muslim council. Admittingly it may be simply it hasn't been reported in the reports I have seen.


I posted this statement earlier.. Since learned the following has been released by the Muslim Council of Great Britain :


> This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. We understand the victim is a serving member of the Armed Forces. Muslims have long served in this country's Armed Forces, proudly and with honour. This attack on a member of the Armed Forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder.
> 
> This action will no doubt heighten tensions on the streets of the United Kingdom. We call on all our communities, Muslim and non-Muslim, to come together in solidarity to ensure the forces of hatred do not prevail. It is important we allow our police authorities to do their job without speculation. We also urge the utmost vigilance and ask the police authorities to calm tensions.


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## haeveymolly (Mar 7, 2009)

Goblin said:


> I posted this statement earlier.. Since learned the following has been released by the Muslim Council of Great Britain :


sounds like some people are very unnerved ...................


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

Goblin said:


> I posted this statement earlier.. Since learned the following has been released by the Muslim Council of Great Britain :


The muslim council have condemed the attack,but i fear real damage has been done.the butchering of a british soldier will be felt all over.


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## x PIXIE x (Feb 9, 2012)

I can't find the words to describe how I feel  

Sad so sad. 

People murdering police get life?? I sure hope this rule will stand in this case and that in prison someone makes their lives hell... In an ideal world I'd have them hung while people poked them with hot pokers.


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## Supasilvfoxy (Apr 6, 2013)

Spirited said:


> Oh no doubt and you wouldnt want to be the family that Im sure was wrongly horrified thinking it was their son when the wrong pic went up.
> I just think maybe they should have some time to grieve without being constantly reminded on every channel with his pic. Just going by the emotions I was torn with every time my family and I saw it 9/11 that seemed on a 24/7 loop. You couldnt escape it. Had to withdraw from everything it seemed just to get some peace.


Somehow I don't think this young soldiers family will be watching television at this time. I know I wouldn't - if we were bereaved in our house television didn't have to be banned nobody wanted to watch it anyway. But..that said ymmv, everybody grieves differently.

I was trying to find some comfort earlier today and stumbled on this: In sorrow, we mourn those lost. In gratitude, we embrace those around us. In sympathy, we reach out to those who grieve.


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## mollydog07 (May 26, 2012)

The scum that butchered the boy lee are in 2 hospitals...help them would you?


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

I am utterly stunned by the murder of this young man.
I just cannot get his poor family out of my mind.
The Damage that these scum have done will take years to over come.

99% of people through out our world, what ever colour or religion or where they live are nice people. They love their families and work hard throughout their lives.
It is the 1% that are the evil bad ones. I just wish in the cases like these two B****ards that they could be put to sleep and got rid of.
They are of no use to our world.

R.I.P Lee x


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## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Just find this whole thing incredibly sad. To have lost this young soldier as a country, for his wife to have lost her husband and most importantly for his baby to have lost its father is devastating. Then of course there are the repurcussions against innocent muslims that will undoubtedly come :frown5: FWIW the council made that statement yesterday. xxx


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## Spellweaver (Jul 17, 2009)

Coming to this thread late but just wanted to add my feelings of shock and horror at what has happened. My thoughts go out to the soldier's family and friends in what must be a horrific time for them.

RIP Lee.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Rest in peace Lee. Xxx

You were supposed to be safe in your home Country 

Thoughts to your family and your army family xxx


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Supasilvfoxy said:


> Somehow I don't think this young soldiers family will be watching television at this time. I know I wouldn't - if we were bereaved in our house television didn't have to be banned nobody wanted to watch it anyway. But..that said ymmv, *everybody grieves differently*.


I agree 100% everyone grieves differently. Children for instance want consoling and normalcy. If their fav program like Sesame Street was what they wanted thats what they got. Unfortunately shows end and they search for something else and we were gutted by all the channels constantly playing the horror for us in our living room.
Thats the reason I mentioned what I did. Bit of a trigger is all.


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## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> I didnt say Islam says *KILL* the infidel did I?
> 
> Im betting they were high on drugs, look at the bbc video
> 
> As a means of attacking our servicemen its pretty poor, 2 men, 1 car to kill 1 soldier?... every barracks will now have armed guards (our nearest always has had)


You've misinterpreted my reply. I mentioned the Islamic stance on murder to show they were not acting in an Islamic manner.

I agree, they were either totally intoxicated but more likely very mentally ill. They are 2 sick individuals, religion is pretty irrelevant to their actions.



Goblin said:


> However the life of a muslim is sacred, the life of a non-muslim isn't.
> 
> It can be claimed, as people like Osama did, that hitting "enemies of islam" isn't a crime it's a necessity. Bit's like
> 
> ...


Osama does not represent Islam. I don't understand why people who twist Islam beyond recognition to suit their own agenda are held up as credible examples of a Muslim.

I'm not going to quote verses of the Qur'an out of context, but as a practising Muslim I can assure you violence in this context is not condoned. The Prophet Muhammed urged Muslims to be kind to their neighbours, it is explicitly stated in the Qur'an that Muslims must be good to their neighbours regardless of religion. Muslims must treat other Muslims and non-Muslims 'kindly and justly'.

This act has been condemned by several Islamic representatives now, as well as thousands of Muslims. Maybe statements hadn't been made at the time you posted, but I'm yet to find a single Muslim who condones this situation.


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## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

I was horrified when I heard about this today, I didn't hear or read any news yesterday.
RIP Lee


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I for one, am glad the killers weren't killed. Neither of them deserve martyrdom. The world needs answers. Let them stand trial and the world can see what pathetic losers they are. Won't be long before they start whinging about the prison food and hard blankets. They wouldn't last a night in Lagos.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Grace_Lily said:


> Osama does not represent Islam. I don't understand why people who twist Islam beyond recognition to suit their own agenda are held up as credible examples of a Muslim.


The trouble is many examples can be found. Fatwā against Salmon Rusdie, protests and death threats against cartoonists etc. Of course you also have actions of the Taliban such as the shooting of Malala Yousufzai. Actions speak louder than words. When growing up one of my friends, a muslim stopped going to the local mosque due to the intolerance of non-muslims being encouraged.



Grace_Lily said:


> I can assure you violence in this context is not condoned.


Even here.. "in this context" indicates that violence is condoned in certain cases. It may not be how it is meant.

Actions need to be more visible by the Muslim Council pushing for tolerance between religions (even sects), even attitudes and ideas in general, not simply statements whenever something tragic happens.

Religion, be is christianity, islam, whatever, is frequently used as an *excuse* for violence. All religions need to push and make clear why violence is not compatible and why toleration towards others is not just preferable but right according to the faith.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I would believe that the vast majority of Muslims in the UK are horrified at this act of senseless violence. I read in one of the articles that a community leader had stated that there should be a clampdown on "terrorist advocacy". With this I would agree. I know many people would bleat about "freedom of speech", but all rights and freedoms carry with them a responsibility IMO. In South Africa, which has probably one of the the most liberal Consitutions in the world, we have legislation against "hate speech". I think freedom of speech can go too far when it is used to demonise communities. These killers have obviously been carrying on for quite some time and been allowed to do so freely. The community and government have not exercised their responsibility to ensure that this right and freedom is not abused. 
I know this is an unpopular view, but I personally have no objection to CCTV, scanning of email/internet in principle. Why? Because (a) it may save my life one day and (b) I have nothing to hide.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

willa said:


> With 2 more arrests sounds like he was targeted in a pre planned attack ? So confusing all this


As he was off duty and not in uniform then it would have to be otherwise they would not know he was a soldier. It would be very easy for the police marksmen to shoot to kill, I would imagine that is why they didn't so that there is a better chance of finding out who else is involved


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## Cigano (Apr 4, 2013)

I dont belong to any group or care to ,but its fair to say I am slowly finding myself at odds with this so called peaceful religion and its oppression :mad2:


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Royoyo said:


> I can't believe how much I have welled up over this, normally I don't get very emotional when it comes to news stories. But it's unimaginable what that poor guy must have gone through
> 
> Rest in peace Lee Rigby.


Same here I dont normal get upset as such by anything on the news, but this just shocked and saddened me to the core  I can't help but think of poor Lee and his family


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I am lost for words....Prayers and hugs for the victims family


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> As he was off duty and not in uniform then it would have to be otherwise they would not know he was a soldier. It would be very easy for the police marksmen to shoot to kill, I would imagine that is why they didn't so that there is a better chance of finding out who else is involved


I got the impression from news coverage that they'd just parked up near the army barracks and waited for a suitable target...and saw Lee coming out of there wearing a 'Help for Heroes' t-shirt so assumed he was a soldier?? May be wrong but I thought that was how they'd selected him as their target.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I was reading the "I" paper this afternoon in a hospital waiting room, it said police escorted hios sister to a waiting police car, so i wonder if she was invovlved as well, someone called Baskri Mohhammed ,who used to live near the killer, and i think got him involved in these ideas, said he was a hero in the middle East
Looks like the trouble has started already,revenge attacks on 2 Muslim places , a curry house and a mosque in Bradford, which isnt right


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

jaycee05 said:


> I was reading the "I" paper this afternoon in a hospital waiting room, it said police escorted hios sister to a waiting police car, so i wonder if she was invovlved as well, someone called Baskri Mohhammed ,who used to live near the killer, and i think got him involved in these ideas, said he was a hero in the middle East
> Looks like the trouble has started already,revenge attacks on 2 Muslim places , a curry house and a mosque in Bradford, which isnt right


This is the problem isn't it. They will have caused such tension in some circles. It's not only muslim but the black population who must be feeling even more nervous in case this triggers even more problems. I don't even know if I have used the correct term 'black' any more there is so much political this and that and what you should say and what you shouldn't. These 2 men have done nothing except fan the flames of rascism and robbed a baby of his daddy.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

R I P LEE 


What i feel very sad about is the almost frantic scramble for people to now get H4H items so much so that the website keeps crashing, H4H does not help all service personell it will only help some of those that have been injured since 9/11, there are so many ex service persons needing help and the other charities that help them have really noticed a decrease in donations since H4H started , and those charities try to help all veterans and their families


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

LostGirl said:


> Same here I dont normal get upset as such by anything on the news, but this just shocked and saddened me to the core  I can't help but think of poor Lee and his family


Same. It's one of those awful, awful crimes I don't think any of us are ever going to forget. Like Stephen Lawrence, Jamie Bulger, Holly and Jessica, Madeline McCann... god it's depressing actually to think back at the depravity some human beings are capable of. 

The press conference today was utterly heartbreaking. Somehow even describing it like that doesn't convey how much pain his family were in. Everytime I see that poor lads lovely picture in his uniform I feel a bit like flinching to imagine what happened to him. God only knows how his family will lead normal lives again. I know I couldn't.


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## bearcub (Jul 19, 2011)

hazel pritchard said:


> R I P LEE
> 
> What i feel very sad about is the almost frantic scramble for people to now get H4H items so much so that the website keeps crashing, H4H does not help all service personell it will only help some of those that have been injured since 9/11, there are so many ex service persons needing help and the other charities that help them have really noticed a decrease in donations since H4H started , and those charities try to help all veterans and their families


I don't think that's anything to feel sad about. At a time like this people generally feel the need to 'do' something, and donating is the most straight forward thing to do. Lee Rigby was wearing a 'Help for Heroes' top; it was obviously a cause he supported regardless of the fact he was a soldier. Had he been wearing a Cancer Research top no doubt that particular charity would see an increase in donations.

To be honest it's not a cause I would generally support but I felt compelled to donate simply out of respect for Lee's memory.


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## click (Dec 23, 2011)

koekemakranka said:


> I would believe that the vast majority of Muslims in the UK are horrified at this act of senseless violence. I read in one of the articles that a community leader had stated that there should be a clampdown on "terrorist advocacy". With this I would agree. I know many people would bleat about "freedom of speech", but all rights and freedoms carry with them a responsibility IMO. In South Africa, which has probably one of the the most liberal Consitutions in the world, we have legislation against "hate speech". I think freedom of speech can go too far when it is used to demonise communities. These killers have obviously been carrying on for quite some time and been allowed to do so freely. The community and government have not exercised their responsibility to ensure that this right and freedom is not abused.
> I know this is an unpopular view, but I personally have no objection to CCTV, scanning of email/internet in principle. Why? Because (a) it may save my life one day and (b) I have nothing to hide.


We have plenty of laws telling us what we can and cannot say in this country.Unfortunately they always seem to be aimed at some white drunk slagging off an Asian taxi driver or similar.Rarely at the preachers of hatred creating these situations.


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## Guest (May 25, 2013)

Ok to start with I was horrified and nearly crying when I saw this on the news and at the point of nearly throwing up! 

I kept thinking to myself how that poor poor guy would have suffered!

But something is really bothering me! I have personally seen an animal being beheaded in a slaughter house and please I really don't want to offend! The sheep was stunned and had its throat cut (even through the bones) and there was so much blood. 

The slaughterman had blood spatters all over him....

Um where is the blood on the body of the victim? Where is the blood trial from the area where they killed him to the road? Where is the blood on the killers clothes? 

I think the most disturbing thing I have seen is a raw footage video of the attack posted on a news website and the guys hands have no blood at all on them and there is no blood near the car but the footage on the tv news does? And people are walking past him like nothing is happening? 

I don't understand!!!

EDIT; here is a youtube video of the itv report! (Links removed by mod)

Have a look at his jacket, the blood ends at the sleevs of his jacket, now I have killed chickens and got more blood on me then that! There is no blood on the body itself OR the floor where he is laying. Neither is there blood leading from the killing site to the road where he was dragged. And there is no blood in this video in front of the car where he was killed. A guy even walks past were the blood is in other videos

Yet in other news footage I have seen, there is blood on the street in front of the car.

Here is the raw video taken from the bus. (link removed by mod) and there isn't even any blood on his hands in this one!!!! WATCH!!! FULL UNCENSORED INTERVIEW WITH KILLER


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Parseltongue said:


> Ok to start with I was horrified and nearly crying when I saw this on the news and at the point of nearly throwing up!
> 
> I kept thinking to myself how that poor poor guy would have suffered!
> 
> ...


I don't understand what your getting at tbh


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Parseltongue said:


> Ok to start with I was horrified and nearly crying when I saw this on the news and at the point of nearly throwing up!
> 
> I kept thinking to myself how that poor poor guy would have suffered!
> 
> ...


Ahhhh! its a fake then!

Conspiracy to set everyone against Islamic followers obviously

As The Who said....."We wont get fooled again"

Thanks Parseltongue, for setting us straight

:yesnod:


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## Guest (May 25, 2013)

The uncut version of the video though was posted by "the sun"

And there is no blood at the scene?

Here is the video of the blood at the scene (Link removed)

Here is the video WITHOUT the blood. This is the raw uncut version (Link removed)

Not to be finicky but how can I be a conspiracy theorist when im just looking at two diff versions of the same incident, from two diff news sources. The uncut version from "the sun" and the cut version from the telegragh.

???


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Parseltongue said:


> The uncut version of the video though was posted by "the sun"
> 
> And there is no blood at the scene?


*sigh* 
:thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Was the news footage shown not gruesome enough for you, 

Shame on you.


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## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

Parseltongue said:


> The uncut version of the video though was posted by "the sun"
> 
> And there is no blood at the scene?


And.....what are you suggesting Sherlock?????

Think we must be missing the point....

His hands are covered in blood....the cleaver is covered in blood....is that not sickeningly gory enough for you...fgs:rolleyes5:


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## click (Dec 23, 2011)

No blood?
What's that on his hands.Ink?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

click said:


> No blood?
> What's that on his hands.Ink?


Photoshop!

Nothing happened really


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Hell I do wonder sometimes . What on earth am I doing here


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## click (Dec 23, 2011)

And how much did the Sun pay for that 'exclusive?


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## Guest (May 25, 2013)

Watch the videos. 

Im not saying it isn't real or somebody wasn't killed.

Im just asking why in the two versions on the same event are different


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Look the same to me...


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## Guest (May 25, 2013)

But nobody has answered my question??? Just ripped the p&ss outa me for asking it.

Why is there a blood trail on the road in one video but not the other. It is as clear as day.

I don't understand how that can happen??

Please explain it to me?


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## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

Parseltongue said:


> But nobody has answered my question??? Just ripped the p&ss outa me for asking it.
> 
> Why is there a blood trail on the road in one video but not the other. It is as clear as day.
> 
> ...


Different light I would think... But same video ..like you can change things on a photo.


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## ilovedsh (Jan 5, 2013)

It was sick what happened, this poor soldier on his way back to the army barracks being attacked like he was and he must have suffered an agonising death and his family are left to pick up the pieces. As his dad said at the news conference held with his family, you don't expect this to happen on your own door step.

RIP Lee Rigby


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## Guest (May 25, 2013)

Sigh, I don't want to believe it happened! 

How can he just talk like that and not be affected by what he has done if he did what he did? Like talking about the weather!

Surely people like this don't exist?

Time to bring out the sherry...


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Parseltongue said:


> Sigh, I don't want to believe it happened


well it did


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Parseltongue said:


> Sigh, *I don't want to believe it happened!*
> 
> How can he just talk like that and not be affected by what he has done if he did what he did? Like talking about the weather!
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone does but Im glad you said that. Puts your posts into better perspective.

I think it's taken a toll on everyone. It's even played here in the US with no minor disgust and outrage.
I just hope the people in the UK aren't over saturated with the exposure and lose their heads and doing something too brash.
Its been said before but its worth repeating:
It's a time for people to come together and not be divided by the act of a lunatic.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Parseltongue said:


> Sigh, I don't want to believe it happened!
> 
> How can he just talk like that and not be affected by what he has done if he did what he did? Like talking about the weather!
> 
> ...


You may not want to believe that it did or even could happen but to suggest that it didn't is, to say the least, an insensitive comment.


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## ilovedsh (Jan 5, 2013)

I find some of the comments being made are insensitive (not aimed at anyone in particular) considering what has happened and to suggested it didn't happen well there are plenty of witnesses that would tell you otherwise.


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## MissShelley (May 9, 2010)

Parseltongue said:


> Ok to start with I was horrified and nearly crying when I saw this on the news and at the point of nearly throwing up!
> 
> I kept thinking to myself how that poor poor guy would have suffered!
> 
> ...


How conscientious of you to examine the video footage of a dead man... Thanks for bringing this to our attention. You are obviously an expert in these matters and know far much more than anyone else


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

No matter what, how etc this young man was a father, husband, brother, son he did not deserve to die as he did. Enough speculation as to whether there was sufficient blood or not ! 

Please show some respect for this young man and his family.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Parseltongue said:


> Sigh, I don't want to believe it happened!
> 
> How can he just talk like that and not be affected by what he has done if he did what he did? Like talking about the weather!
> 
> ...


.......

Please take those rose coloured spectacles off ..... this is the real world , that poor lad was slaughtered , people like those who did this to Lee exist , it is the cold , calculating , calmness of his speech that portrays a true psychopath , and there are many ....... Sherry may help you but not that lad's family ..... I actually hope you choke on the first sip you have, it may wake you up to life


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Lavenderb said:


> Do you not think one version might have been edited to spare the viewer. Extremely heartbreaking enough without his poor family having to see his blood all over TV.


I hate to think what his poor family are going through, bad enough when family are away on operations, we sit on tenterhooks here when ever news breaks, but on your own doorstep? Many families were sat just waiting on a phone call, luckily my girls heard off their brother that afternoon another family were not so fortunate.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Please keep this thread on track, no need for petty bickering especially on a thread such as this.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

FINAL WARNING!

STOP THE PETTY BICKERING, tomorrow this thread will be sorted and all negative comments and off topic posts will be removed.


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## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

Sadly the name of this tread is not correct, Lee was killed because he was a soldier , reports say the people who did this murder were out to kill a soldier whatever he was wearing, 


R I P Lee


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

I apologise if anyone thinks I have done some harsh sorting out on this thread.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Tinder said:


> Harsh yeah and you also missed people saying they wished other members would choke for posting something they didn't like - but, of couse, silly me, they're a VIP member, of course only their opinions are right. Pah!


Whoah is that aimed at me , if so please make it clear , i have no probs with being named , Perhaps i should have just put it gently as in " Please wake up and smell the coffee" is that better ......

Also may i add i may be a VIP member , that means nothing , i actually am still a newbie within this Forum ..... And still learning

Tinder what is your problem ????

My opinion is mine and mine only , so is everyone elses right or wrong it is only an opinion not a matter of fact ....... freedom of speech and all that ,,, lighten up

As for Lee's murder i stand by everything i have written ..... he is the same age as my youngest son , his son is the same age as my youngest grandaughter , why can i not express what i feel , regarding this, and other posters ignorances ..... My sympathy has and remains with Lee's family .... Not with fools .


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

tincan said:


> Whoah is that aimed at me , if so please make it clear , i have no probs with being named , Perhaps i should have just put it gently as in " Please wake up and smell the coffee" is that better ......
> 
> Also may i add i may be a VIP member , that means nothing , i actually am still a newbie within this Forum ..... And still learning
> 
> ...


I think those posts were removed anyway  if I missed any then report them and they will be removed also.


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Thanks Tashi , I'm ok with anyones comments, to be honest i flit about all over the forum , so i don't always see what is posted , anyhoo nice to see you about , must do your head in trying to sort out " The unruly mob , that we can be at times "


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## Tinder (Jul 8, 2011)

tincan said:


> Whoah is that aimed at me , if so please make it clear , i have no probs with being named , Perhaps i should have just put it gently as in " Please wake up and smell the coffee" is that better ......
> 
> Also may i add i may be a VIP member , that means nothing , i actually am still a newbie within this Forum ..... And still learning
> 
> ...


Well Tashi's harsh butchering of the thread...(or more specifically posts written by those whose faces don't fit so well, don't ar$e-lick as well as others etc) has now made it read like gobbledegook so it's not as clear what I was pissed off about. I'd had enough of seeing certain newer members on the thread being ganged up on and older members getting away with f****** murder as is always the case on here.

So I posted a facetious post in which I likened PF members to football hooligans and the W.I. If anyone took offence to it then I won't apologise as it means you must be a complete, humourless ar$e. This thread was deleted when there was nothing personally offensive in it. Yours where you said you hoped someone would choke was left on the board. I singled it out not because i thought it was particularly horrendous but because it was more offensive than mine which was deleted....simples! My face doesn't fit / yours obviously does can be the only logical conclusion I can draw from this.

I don't need to lighten up. I post on plenty of light-hearted threads on here as well as serious ones. I just hate the double standards that are ever present on here and the clique mentality too. I know I'll never change this and i know it's pointless even trying. I'll always moan about it though.


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## Guest (May 26, 2013)

Tinder said:


> I always moan


Okay, we get it...


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## tincan (Aug 30, 2012)

Tinder said:


> Well Tashi's harsh butchering of the thread...(or more specifically posts written by those whose faces don't fit so well, don't ar$e-lick as well as others etc) has now made it read like gobbledegook so it's not as clear what I was pissed off about. I'd had enough of seeing certain newer members on the thread being ganged up on and older members getting away with f****** murder as is always the case on here.
> 
> So I posted a facetious post in which I likened PF members to football hooligans and the W.I. If anyone took offence to it then I won't apologise as it means you must be a complete, humourless ar$e. This thread was deleted when there was nothing personally offensive in it. Yours where you said you hoped someone would choke was left on the board. I singled it out not because i thought it was particularly horrendous but because it was more offensive than mine which was deleted....simples! My face doesn't fit / yours obviously does can be the only logical conclusion I can draw from this.
> 
> I don't need to lighten up. I post on plenty of light-hearted threads on here as well as serious ones. I just hate the double standards that are ever present on here and the clique mentality too. I know I'll never change this and i know it's pointless even trying. I'll always moan about it though.


........

As i have said , i have no idea about what you wrote , i did not see it , if Tashi felt it should be removed , then she did that with good reason , she is pretty tolerant as far as mods go .... My face does not fit , anymore than anyone elses ...... sorry but there is no logic in your conclusion ..... I don't understand the clique mentality ??? some people have the same thoughts , ideals, morals ,, and perceptions , but that does not mean they are in a clique .... just means people share a common ground ..... I'm sorry you feel this way , and no you can't change the way either i or others think, just accept we are all different in our views .... And this is a thread that is supposed to be for a lad , that lost his life , in horrendous circumstances , if you have taken umbridge with me or anyone else then take it to a new thread ,,,,, not here thank you


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## Spirited (May 20, 2013)

Tinder said:


> Well Tashi's harsh butchering of the thread...(or more specifically posts written by those whose faces don't fit so well, don't ar$e-lick as well as others etc) has now made it read like gobbledegook so it's not as clear what I was pissed off about. *I'd had enough of seeing certain newer members on the thread being ganged up on and older members getting away with f****** murder as is always the case on here.
> *
> So I posted a facetious post in which I likened PF members to football hooligans and the W.I. If anyone took offence to it then I won't apologise as it means you must be a complete, humourless ar$e. This thread was deleted when there was nothing personally offensive in it. Yours where you said you hoped someone would choke was left on the board. I singled it out not because i thought it was particularly horrendous but because it was more offensive than mine which was deleted....simples! My face doesn't fit / yours obviously does can be the only logical conclusion I can draw from this.
> 
> I don't need to lighten up. I post on plenty of light-hearted threads on here as well as serious ones. I just hate the double standards that are ever present on here and the clique mentality too. I know I'll never change this and i know it's pointless even trying. I'll always moan about it though.


Cliques exist on every forum and I do see what caused you to post what you did.
I hate to see it when people take shots at others in threads like this one. I didn't mind the smacking around I got for my initial insensitivity to the topic because I was wrong. But some in here seem to revel in any chance they get to look tough or try to demean people It's a thread dedicated to a young man who didn't deserve to die the way he did and his family who aren't ever going to get the joy of hugging him ever again.
I think what Tashi did was needed. :yesnod:


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Three more arrested, total of 5 now, where will it end....

Britain in 2013...

BBC News - Woolwich murder probe: Three more arrests


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

tashi said:


> No matter what, how etc this young man was a father, husband, brother, son he did not deserve to die as he did. Enough speculation as to whether there was sufficient blood or not !
> 
> Please show some respect for this young man and his family.


Also he was a bloody good fusilier (soldier) according to his CO who wore his uniform with pride.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> Three more arrested, total of 5 now, where will it end....
> 
> Britain in 2013...
> 
> BBC News - Woolwich murder probe: Three more arrests


Good...the more they arrest the weaker these groups become.


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## WelshOneEmma (Apr 11, 2009)

They are also saying it looks like there may have been a copycat attack in France too?


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Are we starting again or back on topic? Just wondering...


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> Are we starting again or back on topic? Just wondering...


I would say it was back on track.... I used the ignore button . Quite useful I found.
Thanks Tashi sterling job..


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

This time I am not going to take any of the posts off as I think it just shows people for what they are, I promised time out for folks once before today I have put that into action. I favour no-one and as for what 'status' people have I do not check ! If I think they are out of order I say so.


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## Guest (May 27, 2013)

Watching Soccer AM this morning, last photo on the wall of the 'Heroes' bit was a certain Lee Rigby as a Man U fan...needless to say he got a standing ovation from everyone in the audience...


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