# how old is too old for stud?



## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

what age is too old for a male stud?


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

i think wiv the kennell club the males used to be aloud to stud up untill 10 years old...donno if its still the same???

the way i look at it...if they can still manage it, and want a bit of hows ya father...then why stop them


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

Depends on the dog i suppose, is he still as healthy as he was when he was younger etc x


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

Thanks, looked on the KC and couldnt see any regulasions for the stud only for bitches. 
wouldnt do this for about a year yet but if he is still happy and healthy then i think we will go for it as we would like a pup from it to keep our old dog, Bobby Dazzlers, line going. been through all the other info for breeding and all the check lists come up with full ticks  so seems like its somehting to think about.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

n-a-t-a-s-h-a said:


> Thanks, looked on the KC and couldnt see any regulasions for the stud only for bitches.
> wouldnt do this for about a year yet but if he is still happy and healthy then i think we will go for it as we would like a pup from it to keep our old dog, Bobby Dazzlers, line going. been through all the other info for breeding and all the check lists come up with full ticks  so seems like its somehting to think about.


aww how old is he?  wat breed is he?


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

he is about 10 atm, still acts like a kid with the pup  standard poodle. there are some pictures of him on my profile when we used to show him, his name is sunny


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

i dont think age matters so much with a male as long as hes had all health tests required & hes in good shape.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

n-a-t-a-s-h-a said:


> he is about 10 atm, still acts like a kid with the pup  standard poodle. there are some pictures of him on my profile when we used to show him, his name is sunny


omg he is handsome aint he.... he looks like a big bubble lol.

was he a show dog then???


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

yer he was for a while, his dad, Bobby Dazzler, the one with the continental cut, did better than Sunny, probably due to his skin colour and dark nails. they have all been to crufts and had their fair share, i believe Sunny got a 2nd in his class which wasnt bad  
Sunny was frightend by a judge at one show when he was young which effected his showing, he became frightend of tall men. I got down to the last 12 juniours in the country with him at Richmond which was fun.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

There's nothing to stop you breeding from him at that age, but his fertility is likely to be falling.

Please don't take the following as judgements, they are not, but just some things to take into account.

It is quite likely that it will not be an easy mating if he has got to 10 and never done the 'act' before.

I don't know what tests standard poodles have, but I'm guessing you've sorted those out already.

At his age, given that he has only been lightly shown, you are unlikely to get a decent bitch interested in using him at stud, so unless you have your own bitch that is compatible, you are likely only get an offer from a substandard, pet bitch. This being the case, is it really worth preserving those lines.... bearing in mind that it is the grandfathers lines you want to preserve? Also, taking into account, that if well bred, the grandfather is likely to have close relatives who have got those lines too, so they lines are not lost. Given that it only takes a generation or two to dilute good lines and loose the quality, it may be better if you are looking for a new puppy from such lines as to rearch a breeder using similar lines.

If you find the right bitch willing to use him, have all the clear tests done, and definately get and experienced stud handler to assist with the mating, then there is nothing to stop you.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

Dundee said:


> There's nothing to stop you breeding from him at that age, but his fertility is likely to be falling.
> 
> Please don't take the following as judgements, they are not, but just some things to take into account.
> 
> ...


the bitch we alredy have, she is our own as it is only a pet we are after not a show dog we dont do that any longer.
yes there are various lines with the grandfarther in but not as close as we would have with Sunny, being his son and also would be nice to keep it in the family so to speak.

we have the breeder of our dogs living about 10 mins away so i have no hesitation that she would come to help. we are only playing with the idea at the moment and it would not happen for another year.

if it took then it took if not then it is not a big loss, we would hope for a small litter any way


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

n-a-t-a-s-h-a said:


> the bitch we alredy have, she is our own as it is only a pet we are after not a show dog we dont do that any longer.
> yes there are various lines with the grandfarther in but not as close as we would have with Sunny, being his son and also would be nice to keep it in the family so to speak.
> 
> we have the breeder of our dogs living about 10 mins away so i have no hesitation that she would come to help. we are only playing with the idea at the moment and it would not happen for another year.
> ...


thats wat a m8 of mine hoped for ( a small litter ) he got 10 lol.

very good luck to you in wat ever you decide...if you do decide to breed then i hope all goes well for you and he manages it lol


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

i proably should have made my self a bit clearer that i was not intending to send him off for stud but have him mate our bitch 
it would be nice to keep it going as we only lost Bobby this year and he was a verry good dog not only in looks but he had a heart of gold 

i my self would have said the same as Dundee to someone that was looking to send a 10 yr old dog out for stud


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

n-a-t-a-s-h-a said:


> i proably should have made my self a bit clearer that i was not intending to send him off for stud but have him mate our bitch
> it would be nice to keep it going as we only lost Bobby this year and he was a verry good dog not only in looks but he had a heart of gold
> 
> i my self would have said the same as Dundee to someone that was looking to send a 10 yr old dog out for stud


better to do things properly aint it  then you have no regrets 

so sorry to hear of bobbys parting  he was very beautifull... i can see why you want to keep the lines going.


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## StolenkissGerbils (Aug 8, 2008)

He is a big age - might be worthwhile looking into having some semen frozen from him. In a year he might not be able to mate, his fertility might have dropped, or he might not even be around still  as horrible as that is, it's something to take into account.

But there are numerous examples of stud dogs of various breeds dying aged 14 with bitches in whelp to them when they died, dirty old men the lot of them  so there's no reason why you shouldn't give him a try at least, you do seem to know your stuff re health testing and all that.

Oooh and send the pups here when they hit 8 weeks, every one of them  I looooove standard poodles, they're just so special! I definitely can see why you'd want to keep your line going. That shot in your album of your boy Bobby in his beautiful Continental cut is so gorgeous!


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

StolenkissGerbils said:


> He is a big age - might be worthwhile looking into having some semen frozen from him. In a year he might not be able to mate, his fertility might have dropped, or he might not even be around still  as horrible as that is, it's something to take into account.
> 
> But there are numerous examples of stud dogs of various breeds dying aged 14 with bitches in whelp to them when they died, dirty old men the lot of them  so there's no reason why you shouldn't give him a try at least, you do seem to know your stuff re health testing and all that.
> 
> Oooh and send the pups here when they hit 8 weeks, every one of them  I looooove standard poodles, they're just so special! I definitely can see why you'd want to keep your line going. That shot in your album of your boy Bobby in his beautiful Continental cut is so gorgeous!


thanks 

Bobbys death was awful, i am thankful i was not here to see it, i was staying at my boyfriends when it all happend, woke up to the news the next day...

i think its an 'if it takes it takes' kinds thing. if not then there are close lines and all is not lost.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

Sorry Natasha, I did assume you meant studding him out.

Hope all goes to plan and you get the small litter you want (although s*ds law says it will be a big one....

PS... I wouldn't bother with frozen semen. AI is not done much in the UK because the KC has to approve it first, they have strict guidelines and is not something they encourage.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

Thanks Dundee,
read the article about thinking about breeding your bitch, and have been seriously thinking for weeks about it but at the end of the day it is not my decision its my parents. i have alredy told them that if we do decide to breed i will be going to every home of possible owners 2 the pups to check them out, is this over the top?


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

No, not at all, although whether it's practical or not depends on how local they are...

Future homes do need to be carefully vetted. Lots of questions about lifestyle, experience of dogs... poodles in particular. Any responsible potential owner will expect a grilling, although it is a two way street, they too should be asking lots of questions... this will also give you and idea of how much effort they have put in... have they researched the breed? do they know what health tests you should have done? do they ask to see copies? etc. Have they looked into puppy classes.. training classes.? Do they/have they ever had any pets before? If so, then I would ask who their vet is and ask for a vet reference. Like Eolabeo, I would not home to full time workers (although before I get lynched... I know it is possible to work full time and have a dog... BUT... it is not easy, takes a great deal of commitment and a fair amount of money on dog walkers etc). Also, you will need to think about a contract of sale and endorsing the puppies.

Have your parents bred before.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

Dundee said:


> No, not at all, although whether it's practical or not depends on how local they are...
> 
> Future homes do need to be carefully vetted. Lots of questions about lifestyle, experience of dogs... poodles in particular. Any responsible potential owner will expect a grilling, although it is a two way street, they too should be asking lots of questions... this will also give you and idea of how much effort they have put in... have they researched the breed? do they know what health tests you should have done? do they ask to see copies? etc. Have they looked into puppy classes.. training classes.? Do they/have they ever had any pets before? If so, then I would ask who their vet is and ask for a vet reference. Like Eolabeo, I would not home to full time workers (although before I get lynched... I know it is possible to work full time and have a dog... BUT... it is not easy, takes a great deal of commitment and a fair amount of money on dog walkers etc). Also, you will need to think about a contract of sale and endorsing the puppies.
> 
> Have your parents bred before.


i defo agree with everything you have said, and the ful time workers, no my parents have not bred before but have a lot of experience with poodles as we have had 5 now and my dad has had them his whole life (he is now 61)They both had a lot to do with the litter our dog sired. i do realise they will need help but we alredy have the perfect people in mind for it so we are all sorted. i dont want people thinking we are complete amatures but no we do not have the experience of a breeder but it is going to be a one off thing and we are not going into it light hearted and every route will be looked at.

we have checked homes before for the pups of Bobby and refused homes due to conditions. tbh i wouldnt let a pup go unless i had checked the home and if i thought they wouldnt cope it wouldnt be going there. 
i do agree about the full time workin, its not so bad if one works full time and their partner dosent but i would rather they went to people with more time on their hand, i dont think it will be a problem tho as out breeder again will probably have people she knows who will want pups if we decide to go ahead with it.

it will be a lot of time planning and making sure everything is perfect before it happens, we have also said that we will want to know if one is bring re homes and tbh would probably want to take it back and re home it ourselfs, but this is what any responcible breeder would do anyway.


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## raindog (Jul 1, 2008)

In theory, the older a stud dog is, the better. If a dog has attained the age of 10, for example and is still fit, healthy and showing no signs of inherited health problems, then, as long as he is still producing healthy viable sperm, he should make an ideal stud. (Taking for granted that he is a top quality specimen of his breed as proven in the showring or the working arena - dependent on breed). 
Too many young dogs are used at stud and then go on to develop health problems as they get older, which they may have handed down to their offspring. This could be avoided if an older dog was used.

Mick


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2008)

raindog said:


> In theory, the older a stud dog is, the better. If a dog has attained the age of 10, for example and is still fit, healthy and showing no signs of inherited health problems, then, as long as he is still producing healthy viable sperm, he should make an ideal stud. (Taking for granted that he is a top quality specimen of his breed as proven in the showring or the working arena - dependent on breed).
> Too many young dogs are used at stud and then go on to develop health problems as they get older, which they may have handed down to their offspring. This could be avoided if an older dog was used.
> 
> Mick


thanks for that that was something that i hadnt even thought about! he wasnt an amazing show dog, not a champian but all we are after is a pet and i would be happy what ever. his health has always been very good.


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## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

My last litter of WSS were sired by a dog of 12 yrs and mum was 7 she produced 6 pups we lost one but raised the other 5 to be real fine solid pups, we just did the two matings and she had the same number as when she was younger covered by a very much younger dog


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

I do see where you're coming from raindog, but I think this applies less today as most problems will show up through proper health testing at an early age. There are now DNA tests available for some of the eye tests to see if a dog is clear/carrier/affected before it leaves the litter, much less before a stud career is contemplated. I'm not sure, but I think poodles suffer from PRA? More and more of these DNA tests are becoming available, so really, this shouldn't apply if health testing has been carried out on all breeding stock.

Also, there is much one can find out by looking back through pedigrees - looking at dogs that were carriers or appeared to produce certain problems. Knoweldgeable breeders and those doing their homework would know this. Those simply mating their bitch or dog will be unlikely to have bothered with this. While it is great to have a dog that has lived healthily to old age, it cannot substitute for health testing.


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