# Cat



## kriscs1 (Aug 23, 2011)

Hi,
We have a 9 month old kitten/cat. He is an indoor and outdoor cat but we can't have a cat flap because it is a rented property. At the moment he's outside while we are at work and inside otherwise. We also put him out for a couple of hours before we go to bed as well (until about 11ish) to give him a chance to go to the toilet.

He has always woken us up at pretty much exactly 4:30 o'clock in the morning nearly every morning but recently (for about 2 or 3 weeks?) he has been making more noise and meowing/scratching at the door to go outside for at least an hour. At first we let him out but obviously we can't let him out at 4:30 every morning when we get up for work at 7 so we have now stopped to get him out of the habit. However early this week he urinated on the kitchen mat and this morning he urinated in the bath.

I don't know whether this because he can't hold it in for the whole night any more or because he has a urinary infection or what. 

We also have keep the room that used to have his litter tray in closed because he has defecated in there about four times previously during the night (over a few months) as he seems to think it is still okay to go in there.

Is there an alternative that isn't a litter tray or letting him out at 4 every morning?

Would appreciate a any help! Thanks!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

My only suggestions are if you think he could have a UTI I would book a vet visit,secondly ,I know you say you dont want to use a litter tray but cats are very clean creatures by nature so I imagine it is very stressful for him if he needs to relieve himself while indoors but cant find anywhere suitable,I would provide a tray.Is he neutered,and lastly with winter approaching have you considered in the bad weather that he will,without a cat flap,have to sit outside in the cold/snow ect waiting for you to come home,is there no way you could provide access for him.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Why don't just get him a litter tray? He obviously needs one  How unfair on him to be denied relieving himself


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## Sonybear (Feb 1, 2011)

I agree, get a litter tray if you get one that is covered it stops so much litter going everywhere after they have tried to cover up their wee or poop. 

I have two cats and two litter trays and I clean them everyday and I have no accidents in the house and my cats are both indoors and outdoors. 

If you don't want to get a litter tray, get up and let your cat out when he cries, otherwise expect accidents in your house and an unhappy cat.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

Firstly do you or your partner have to nip to the loo sometimes in the night?
I know I have to sometimes. So I an glad I have a loo indoors.

Your poor puss might be having a drink when he goes out at 11pm and not a wee.
We have two litter trays and providing they are kept clean they do not smell.
We have 3 cats and sometimes the trays are not used in the night and then sometimes are. ( usually by the 17 year old )

In fact it is much safer for your puss to have a tray then be outside at night.
He is only 9 months old and is a little young to be out all day and then let out late at night.

I am sorry if that sounds like i am getting on at you, but as I drive for a living i see a lot of poor cats and animals that have been run over early in the mornings or late at night. It's very up setting to see :crying:


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## francescah (Feb 6, 2011)

Just get the poor boy a tray. Can you imagine needing a pee and not having anywhere to go? Of course he can't hang on another 3 hours until you get up!


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## kriscs1 (Aug 23, 2011)

Yes buffie, he is neutered. I don't think it is a urinary infection as he stays in most of the day during the weekend and doesn't need to go.
We have twice left the upstairs window wide open by mistake at night and both times he managed to get outside (I think by jumping onto the porch roof). However I don't want to leave it open every night as I am afraid he may slip and fall.

Most of you seem to be saying it is stressful for him and I can certainly see that it may be and it's definitely making me feel bad. I just thought it strange that he had never needed/wanted to go out at night until recently. I thought he just wanted to play or whatnot. My in-laws's cat stays inside all night every night with no problems which is why we thought it would be fine. 

Maybe a litter tray would be best then - or train him to use the toilet..


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

kriscs1 said:


> Yes buffie, he is neutered. *I don't think it is a urinary infection as he stays in most of the day during the weekend and doesn't need to go.*We have twice left the upstairs window wide open by mistake at night and both times he managed to get outside (I think by jumping onto the porch roof). However I don't want to leave it open every night as I am afraid he may slip and fall.
> 
> Most of you seem to be saying it is stressful for him and I can certainly see that it may be and it's definitely making me feel bad. I just thought it strange that he had never needed/wanted to go out at night until recently. I thought he just wanted to play or whatnot. My in-laws's cat stays inside all night every night with no problems which is why we thought it would be fine.
> 
> Maybe a litter tray would be best then - or train him to use the toilet..


I hope you dont take offence at this,but,I have to say it.You say he stays in most of the time at the weekend,does that not make you think that he is most likely unhappy being shut outside all day during the week.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

I do not think a cat should be locked outside all day.

I have no problems with outdoor cats but the cat should have a choice, it should not be shut outside all day.


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## Bonnie82 (May 4, 2011)

I agree with the others that your cat should have the choice whether to be inside or outside during the day. During the summer months it's probably not so bad, but in the winter or in unpredictable weather, e.g. snow, hail, heavy rain or winds, your cat will probably want to stay indoors during the day.

A cat's home is its safe place, and bad weather aside, there may be all sorts of dangers and scary things lurking out there that your cat may not want to encounter. To be able to hide in the safety of his own home is very important - he should be able to come home and curl up in his bed or somewhere safe if he wants to. At the moment, your cat is basically having to fend for himself during the day and I expect that is causing him a great deal of stress.

I have indoor cats myself, but if I were you in your situation, I would keep him in during the day when you are at work and let him out as soon as you get home, so he can enjoy the outdoors but can still get back inside if he wants to. I would also get him a litter tray which is accessible at all times when he is in the house.

Sounds like your cat is happiest when he's indoors anyway, so probably doesn't enjoy being shut out all day. I think that by changing the times he goes out and getting him a litter tray you would be helping to make his life much less stressful, and yours too, as it would mean you wouldn't have to get up so early every morning to let him out.

As for training him to use the toilet, personally I would start with the easy option of a litter tray as it can take six months (or longer?) to train a cat to use the toilet. If he's not even using a litter tray yet then it would probably be quite a leap to expect him to take to using the toilet.

Good luck and hopefully you will take the advice of the posters here on board, and the result will be a happier, less stressed cat and happier, less stressed humans too.


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## kriscs1 (Aug 23, 2011)

buffie said:


> I hope you dont take offence at this,but,I have to say it.You say he stays in most of the time at the weekend,does that not make you think that he is most likely unhappy being shut outside all day during the week.


I think that's more because he wants to be near us rather than because he wants to be inside as he follows us round everywhere, even outside. He definitely likes being outside for long periods of time too. Perhaps he doesn't want to stay out _all_ day but it's simply not practical to give him everything he wants right now. He definitely seems like a happy cat to me.

Back on topic though - aren't most dogs trained to hold it in all night and it's not considered cruel?


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## kriscs1 (Aug 23, 2011)

Bonnie82 said:


> I agree with the others that your cat should have the choice whether to be inside or outside during the day. During the summer months it's probably not so bad, but in the winter or in unpredictable weather, e.g. snow, hail, heavy rain or winds, your cat will probably want to stay indoors during the day.
> 
> A cat's home is its safe place, and bad weather aside, there may be all sorts of dangers and scary things lurking out there that your cat may not want to encounter. To be able to hide in the safety of his own home is very important - he should be able to come home and curl up in his bed or somewhere safe if he wants to. At the moment, your cat is basically having to fend for himself during the day and I expect that is causing him a great deal of stress.
> 
> ...


Hi Bonnie, thanks - I do agree with you. Unfortunately he can't have a choice until we are able to buy somewhere and have a cat flap put in. Perhaps you are right about swapping round when he is out, especially in winter. Unfortunately again, I'd have to persuade my partner (which is nigh on impossible) who is determined that there is no litter tray in the house like my in-laws's cat. I'll see what I can do.
He knows exactly how to use a litter tray already (though he does scatter the litter across the _whole_ room as he gets a little over-enthusiastic with covering up! )


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

But the main difference is that when I take my dogs out for a wee before bed I go with them to make sure they do go. Do you do this with your cat? If not how do you know he's been to the toilet?

If he is out all day can you provide him with a kennel so he has a bit of shelter if it's too hot or cold? My friends cat has one & he loves it. 

One of my cats goes out when I'm at work but we have a dog flap which she can come & go freely. I think that at 9months you cat is still very young & vunerable. I agree with Bonnie82 in that I would keep him in during the day & let him out in the evening at the moment.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

But cats are not dogs. They do not work that way. A litter tray is essential. Also to leave your cat outside all day is not fair and you need to make a plan for access or to keep him indoors while you are out (with a litter tray of course). My cats have to stay indoors while we are at work and they are let into the garden early mornings and late afternoons for a few hours. They are very happy with this arrangement. They even keep to these hours on weekends when they have free access to the garden all day.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

kriscs1 said:


> I think that's more because he wants to be near us rather than because he wants to be inside as he follows us round everywhere, even outside. He definitely likes being outside for long periods of time too. *Perhaps he doesn't want to stay out all day but it's simply not practical to give him everything he wants right now*. He definitely seems like a happy cat to me.
> 
> Back on topic though - aren't most dogs trained to hold it in all night and it's not considered cruel?


As others have said cats are not dogs and their toileting habits are different.Dogs can be taught./trained to go out last thing at night for a pee/poo,cats cant.Cats dont pee on command so you wont know whether he has or not when he comes in.If you have pets you have to be flexible,if your cat needs a litter tray available then it is no big deal to you but will be very stressful for him not to have one.
I agree, if you cant give him access to the house while you are out then keep him in with a litter tray,especially with the colder weather just round the corner.


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## gloworm*mushroom (Mar 4, 2011)

kriscs1 said:


> I think that's more because he wants to be near us rather than because he wants to be inside as he follows us round everywhere, even outside. He definitely likes being outside for long periods of time too. Perhaps he doesn't want to stay out _all_ day but it's simply not practical to give him everything he wants right now. He definitely seems like a happy cat to me.
> 
> Back on topic though - aren't most dogs trained to hold it in all night and it's not considered cruel?


What a shame his needs dont meet yours right now!

And I dont know what your in laws cat litter tray is like, but mine are simply boxes full of clean cat litter. That is because I clean them out of messes whenever I see one. They dont smell or are boxes full of crap etc, simply a place my cat knows he can go to the loo when he needs it.

Which is one of his needs. Which I agreed to meet when I took him into my house.


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## Howlinbob (Jul 25, 2011)

kriscs1 said:


> Hi Bonnie, thanks - I do agree with you. Unfortunately he can't have a choice until we are able to buy somewhere and have a cat flap put in. Perhaps you are right about swapping round when he is out, especially in winter. Unfortunately again, I'd have to persuade my partner (which is nigh on impossible) who is determined that there is no litter tray in the house like my in-laws's cat. I'll see what I can do.
> He knows exactly how to use a litter tray already (though he does scatter the litter across the _whole_ room as he gets a little over-enthusiastic with covering up! )


Sounds like the real problem is with your partner. His mother's cat doesn't have a litter tray so your cat won't have one either! What nonsense. Without getting into the politics of family relationships, especially mothers/sons, the fact is that this is your house, your cat, and you clearly need a litter tray. I know some people can be squeamish about having smelly urine and poop in a tray in the house, and would much prefer all of that business was taken care of invisibly outside. But without a catflap, that's not going to happen. It's true that some cats can last all night without 'going', but your cat is still very young, and he can't be expected to cross his legs for that long.

Having a regularly cleaned tray is a lot less smelly and messy than having to clear up puddles and deposits around the house. If you let this go on, there's a chance your cat will forget his clean habits and start weeing every day on the floor or in the bath or wherever he's been forced to wee overnight. I'm sorry but your partner is going to have to get over this, as it's just not fair on the cat, or on you. It's notoriously difficult to get rid of the smell of cat urine and your landlord may not be pleased about that.

Perhaps you could suggest that the tray is temporary until the cat is older and you are able to live somewhere with a cat flap. You can get trays with hoods which have a smell filter in them (not sure how effective these are though). Also, the better the diet, the less smelly the poo is.

Hope you can get this sorted :smile5:


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Litter trays are a problem only if they are not cleaned regularly. Get a good quality cat litter (other members can recommend as I don't live in the UK). Scoop out poop as soon as it appears. Keep 2 litter trays. You do not have to fill them completely. I am squeamish about litter trays too, so I use less litter daily (just a few centimetres deep) and throw the whole lot away every day. It is a bit of extra work, but well worth it.


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## Pheebs (Jun 8, 2011)

Hi there

I&#8217;m in a similar situation as you in that we rent and don&#8217;t have a cat flap and our cat is 6 months. The cat will only be going out when we&#8217;re at home (at the moment she&#8217;s only going out supervised for a few minutes a day) and never at night 

As for a litter tray&#8230;we have a covered litter tray and we use Cat&#8217;s Best Oko Plus (I think that&#8217;s the proper name for it). No smells, easy peasy to clean out, takes a couple of minutes two or three times a day, no problem.


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## Noz73 (Jul 21, 2011)

Both Tyger and Hugo had (have) access to litter trays but Hugo used to wake me up at all hours because he didn't want to use the tray, he wanted to go outside. 

We now have a small downstairs window open. Tyger uses it when he needs to. He still likes waking me - just to let me know he's there


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## kriscs1 (Aug 23, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your replies.



Cleo38 said:


> But the main difference is that when I take my
> dogs out for a wee before bed I go with them to make sure they do go. Do you do this with your cat? If not how do you know he's been to the toilet?
> 
> If he is out all day can you provide him with a kennel so he has a bit of shelter if it's too hot or cold? My friends cat has one & he loves it.


We used to let him in the shed but after he started defecating in there we keep it closed. I suppose we open it again.
He's actually been out for the past 6 hours today by his own free will as I have been home all day and been in the garden every hour or so.



gloworm*mushroom said:


> What a shame his needs dont meet yours right now!
> 
> And I dont know what your in laws cat litter tray is like, but mine are simply boxes full of clean cat litter. That is because I clean them out of messes whenever I see one. They dont smell or are boxes full of crap etc, simply a place my cat knows he can go to the loo when he needs it.
> 
> Which is one of his needs. Which I agreed to meet when I took him into my house.


That's all very well but I didn't think that cats _needed_ a litter tray during the night if they were let outside before bed and first thing in the morning - as the only other cat I know doesn't. Also he was fine for months without one.



Howlinbob said:


> ...


Thank you. I'll see what can be done.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

All cats are different. As he's quite young he may be nervous at times or feel vunerable when going to the loo hence fininding somewhere 'safe' to go that is more covered. 

You could even put a litter tray in the shed for him as well as some blankets so he has somewhere to shelter if he is out in the day.

Alot of litter sold today is alot better than years ago, easier to clean, less smells, etc as long as you do change it regularly.

As suggested there are lots of different types of litter boxes now - covered ones are great, they stop litter going everywhere & keep any smells more contained. Have a look on Amazon or Zooplus (they are good & I thik do a 10% off with your first order)

One of my cats still comes in to go to the toilet, in some ways I prefer this as it means I don't have cat poo in my garden (I have enough problems picking up after the dogs!), & I can keep more of an eye on his toilet habits (he used to suffer with cystitis). 

Hope you can sort things out


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## wellsandmittens (May 29, 2011)

Try him with a tray, if he doesn't need it he won't use it and then a tray full of clean litter isn't offensive at all. I can understand the reluctance with a tray, I am the same because my cats always go outside and have a cat flap to do that at any time but obviously you don't want him to be in distress. It is a complete pain that you can't train cats to go on demand like dogs, I always feel sorry for mine if I have to take them in the car to the vet or the cattery as I can't tell them to go before as you would with a child and there has been the odd accident in the cat carrier which isn't pleasant for anyone.


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## Empeewee (Apr 20, 2017)

Sorry I know you said no litter tray but that's probably the best option lol. Otherwise train him to jump through an open window - my old cat used to do that, we wouldn't have a cat flap due to foxes so she just went out that way. It was a high up window with a chair perched underneath but cats are sturdy.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Empeewee said:


> Sorry I know you said no litter tray but that's probably the best option lol. Otherwise train him to jump through an open window - my old cat used to do that, we wouldn't have a cat flap due to foxes so she just went out that way. It was a high up window with a chair perched underneath but cats are sturdy.


This thread is nearly 6 years old! The OP has not been seen since 2011!


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