# Jan Fennell



## canvey (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi
Just a short one has anyone heard of Jan Fennell, I'm following her 4 steps to leadership and have done for the past week, but wanted to know if anyone else has and what they thing.
Sue and Barney


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## hobo99 (Aug 18, 2008)

canvey said:


> Hi
> Just a short one has anyone heard of Jan Fennell, I'm following her 4 steps to leadership and have done for the past week, but wanted to know if anyone else has and what they thing.
> Sue and Barney


Hi, yes i have heard of Jan Fennell,also read some of her books and did meet her a couple of years ago. 
She is a very interesting woman with her own views that mostly seem to be taken from how the wolves behave , a lot of what she says is common sense, and usefull, but not something i would follow to the letter, although it seems to work for her. 
Training, excerise and affection seems to be the way to go.


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

I've heard of her, as with all these 'TV' trainers I take what I think will work with my dogs and adapt it. I'm not a huge fan of all the eating before them, walking through doors ways stuff ...to be honest I've had dogs all my life and never followed these rules and my pack are pretty much well adjusted happy little souls so I think them getting their tea after me isn't going to change much. :laugh:

Take what you want from any and all trainers and use it if it works, if it doesn't then try something else. Dogs are like people, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. 2 of my dogs are a wizz with clicker training, 2 of them look at me like I've gone out when I try to use it and the the other one is afraid of it, so although clicker is my preferred training method I only use it on the ones that respond to it.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

What the others said. She has a few sensible things to say (although the ideas aren't new) but the rest of the time I have to say I find her potty.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

some of the things she says and does are ok, even though i dont agree with the logic behind them, however i have met dogs that have been subjected to her methods, particually the older ones and they have been depressed, almost like empty shells. i think you need to pick and choose what you think will work, after all everydog is different.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

I use a couple of her things but i found her entire ethos impossible to translate into a busy household with children.

I think it's probably ok on a one to one basis but i found it lacked detail with regards things like, how the children fitted in and stuff.


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## canvey (Mar 10, 2009)

Intresting comments from everyone and most of then not very postive.
Anyone who has tried her method what parts did you try and did they work.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

hI. I began using her methods (although they are pretty much the same as Cesar Milan), when I began having serious problems with my rescues. I felt it really helped and certainly calmed them down and reminded them who was boss.

However, I did become complacent and eased off on a lot of it. Due to further problems I have begun adopting her methods again. She does say, her methods are a way of life not to be picked up now and again.

I found her book The Dog Listener very informative and I actually agree with her logic.

I do happen to think (and I will prob get shot down for saying this.....) that sometimes people find it easier to focus on training the dog and buying new gadgets i.e halti's, clicker training, training classes etc (I have done and still do all of these as well), rather than accept that they are the problem.

Jan Fennell and Cesar Milan focus on the owner and not so much about training the dog. To me it makes perfect sense, as in the wild they don't have training classes, it is all about the pack following the leader.

I think it depends, as JSR has said about what the dog is about. My dogs, being street dogs are very much in tune with their instincts, probably it is different for a spoilt labrador who has only ever known kindness. Therefore you would prob deal with these 2 cases in seperate ways.

I am not putting anybody down who uses training methods, on the contary, colliepoodle as given me advice on how to use clicker training and I am seeing some great results. But ultimately, that alone will not enable me to solve their behavioural problems.

x


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## canvey (Mar 10, 2009)

Thank you i was beginning to wonder if i was doing right i now know that i am
and the method does make sence.
As you said different methods work in different ways with difference dogs.
It seems lots have heard of cesar but not many of Jan Fennell.



goodvic2 said:


> hI. I began using her methods (although they are pretty much the same as Cesar Milan), when I began having serious problems with my rescues. I felt it really helped and certainly calmed them down and reminded them who was boss.
> 
> However, I did become complacent and eased off on a lot of it. Due to further problems I have begun adopting her methods again. She does say, her methods are a way of life not to be picked up now and again.
> 
> ...


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Jan was popular in the late 90's when her show was on TV but I know alot of doggie people had rather strong views of her 'training' and she dropped from the radar. She just takes things alittle to far in my opinion, eating a cracker before you give your dogs their food because it makes you leader for example . 

As I said if it works for you and your dogs then brilliant! I use all forms of training with my lot and I adapt my methods when training other people's dogs. I'm not a clicker, dominance, reward or pressure based trainer I just do whatever works! 9 times out of 10 clicker works (well treats work and the clicker supports it ) so that's why I use it. 

Keep up the good work.


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

JSR said:


> Jan was popular in the late 90's when her show was on TV but I know alot of doggie people had rather strong views of her 'training' and she dropped from the radar. She just takes things alittle to far in my opinion, eating a cracker before you give your dogs their food because it makes you leader for example .
> 
> As I said if it works for you and your dogs then brilliant! I use all forms of training with my lot and I adapt my methods when training other people's dogs. I'm not a clicker, dominance, reward or pressure based trainer I just do whatever works! 9 times out of 10 clicker works (well treats work and the clicker supports it ) so that's why I use it.
> 
> Keep up the good work.


I think with you though JSR, that you have so much experience that you can afford to adapt your methods. I have no doubt that you project the right energy, which makes your dogs, and the dogs you work with, follow you. If I asked you to pin point exactly how you gain that respect, would you be able to pin point it? as I'm sure by now it just comes naturally.

When I got my first 2 rescue's, I was so in-experienced that if I had followed the guidance from Jan Fennell or Cesar Milan, I am sure that I would not have had the behavioural problems which developed. I allowed the dogs to walk all over me, because I thought kindness and affection would solve all. Hence, the reason I am so vocal on discipline and rules! :smile5:

By the way, hats off to you for the great work you do for the dogs!


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## JSR (Jan 2, 2009)

Oh absolutely, my problem with all the TV dog trainers is that (and I'll try and explain this without sounding loopy!!:w00t some people have 'something' about them. It's the same with Monty Roberts and Pat Parelli (horse trainers), these people have an aura (or whatever you want to call it) around them that animals react to. In the same way some people have an aura that animals react negatively to. And this is why I get concerned about these people being plastered all over the TV and the general public blindly following what is being shown. Some of the actions are down right dangerous for your general dog owner to practice and it causes me great concern to watch or read it. They get away with their actions because the animals have respect/fear/whatever the reaction, to their aura..something not everyone has, so an action CM can do safely isn't necessary an action Bob Smith can do. It's all very well CM telling you to have a calm aura but hand on heart can we honestly all say we would be calm in some situations with our dogs...I know I can't guarantee that I would be!! 

Take Sarah Fisher for example, this lady has done a huge amount of good for the animals of this country, but you don't see her on telly everyday. She quietly goes about her work and educates rather than smoother it all with showmanship and dramatic displays. 

If I were to follow one particular animal communicator blindly then Sarah Fisher would be the one. 

I do agree there is a chance I have this 'something' which is why I have never had major problems retraining and training my own and other dogs, but maybe it's because I've grown up in an animals dominated environment with parents who themselves grew up surrounded by both working and pet animals? Or maybe it's just I have common sense around animals and respect, something alot of people unknowingly don't display.


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## max's mum (Apr 18, 2009)

I really enjoyed reading The Dog Listener and use some of her ideas with my rescue. It has helped but I agree that some of the ideas aren't practical in everyday life. x


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## anniek (Mar 5, 2020)

canvey said:


> Hi
> Just a short one has anyone heard of Jan Fennell, I'm following her 4 steps to leadership and have done for the past week, but wanted to know if anyone else has and what they thing.
> Sue and Barney


Hey there
I have completed Jans foundation and advanced course as i was wanting to work with my rescue chihuahua who has many issues which are barking at strangers, dogs, aggression, barking at people walking past the house. I completed the course and have worked tirelessly with her method . I have finally ( after months of working with the method, so have given it my best shot!!) have come to the conclusion that that alone does not work with severe behavioral issues like his. 
Jan Fennell method definitely helped in calming him down and there are a lot of benefits to what she teaches but I have since started to use victoria stilwell ( really didnt like her to start with, didn't like how she judged the owners in the shows and did face shots for the cameras!) but i have to say , i have seen more results in 2 weeks than i ever did with amichien bonding which is rather a blanket method to a dog with issues like my hound. I also wasn't comfortable with Jan thinking hers was the only method that worked. Surely there are many ways to get positive results from a dog???
This is just my opinion on it all , but i hope it helps. I had read Jan Fennell books and have been trying AB for at least a year before the course and any time i messaged Jan to say it wasnt working she said my dog just didnt see me as leader ( which i guess may be true??) but using positive reinforcement with a rescue like mine has just helped more eg. giving him a treat when a dog walks past so he sees it as a positive thing rather than negative has helped loads. I like the way Victoria addresses the individual dog and problem to give an answer. Has helped me loads
hope this helps xx


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

anniek said:


> Hey there
> I have completed Jans foundation and advanced course as i was wanting to work with my rescue chihuahua who has many issues which are barking at strangers, dogs, aggression, barking at people walking past the house. I completed the course and have worked tirelessly with her method . I have finally ( after months of working with the method, so have given it my best shot!!) have come to the conclusion that that alone does not work with severe behavioral issues like his.
> Jan Fennell method definitely helped in calming him down and there are a lot of benefits to what she teaches but I have since started to use victoria stilwell ( really didnt like her to start with, didn't like how she judged the owners in the shows and did face shots for the cameras!) but i have to say , i have seen more results in 2 weeks than i ever did with amichien bonding which is rather a blanket method to a dog with issues like my hound. I also wasn't comfortable with Jan thinking hers was the only method that worked. Surely there are many ways to get positive results from a dog???
> This is just my opinion on it all , but i hope it helps. I had read Jan Fennell books and have been trying AB for at least a year before the course and any time i messaged Jan to say it wasnt working she said my dog just didnt see me as leader ( which i guess may be true??) but using positive reinforcement with a rescue like mine has just helped more eg. giving him a treat when a dog walks past so he sees it as a positive thing rather than negative has helped loads. I like the way Victoria addresses the individual dog and problem to give an answer. Has helped me loads
> hope this helps xx


I think you may find that many on this are not fans of Jan Fennell. The thread you have found is more than a decade old, and none of the posters who posted have been round for many many years.
Pack leader, wolves and dogs.. Training based around this theory has be debunked long ago.

There are many helpful members here that can, and could help with a variety of training problems if you need them to. Using positive reinforcement as a main, plus a lot of common sense about the dog you own. Working with the dog you have is more important than anything


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## Billbailey (Dec 22, 2019)

I think AnnieK did the right thing, though, in recognising the Fennel method wasn't working on her particular dog and changing to the Stillwell method which is.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Billbailey said:


> I think AnnieK did the right thing, though, in recognising the Fennel method wasn't working on her particular dog and changing to the Stillwell method which is.


Shamed she wasted money learning this though


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## Billbailey (Dec 22, 2019)

Well, not much she can do about that now so may the judgement isn't really needed?


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Billbailey said:


> Well, not much she can do about that now so may the judgement isn't really needed?


I wasn't judging, I actually find it awfully sad that Jan herself kept advising her to keep on going when there was no progress. Not suggesting another tool from the toolbox so to speak, which I find terrible how people see her and believe in her still to this day.


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## Billbailey (Dec 22, 2019)

Ah sorry, I misunderstood. I agree that is a shame that Fennel is still followed but it is what it is. At least the OP is now getting a better relationship with her dog.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

lullabydream said:


> I wasn't judging, I actually find it awfully sad that Jan herself kept advising her to keep on going when there was no progress. Not suggesting another tool from the toolbox so to speak, which I find terrible how people see her and believe in her still to this day.


Your post did not come across as judgemental at all.

Perfectly reasonable.


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## Billbailey (Dec 22, 2019)

That's one of the problems with the written word. 90% of the info is missing.


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## anniek (Mar 5, 2020)

lullabydream said:


> I think you may find that many on this are not fans of Jan Fennell. The thread you have found is more than a decade old, and none of the posters who posted have been round for many many years.
> Pack leader, wolves and dogs.. Training based around this theory has be debunked long ago.
> 
> There are many helpful members here that can, and could help with a variety of training problems if you need them to. Using positive reinforcement as a main, plus a lot of common sense about the dog you own. Working with the dog you have is more important than anything


aaaahhh i am new to the site and didnt realise it was an old thread! What are your opinions on victoria stillwell method???


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## Billbailey (Dec 22, 2019)

I quite like her method, apart from the fact I think she overtreats. But the positive stuff does work better on Bill. But don't forget, you don't need to see it as set in stone, you can adapt it for your particular dog.


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## anniek (Mar 5, 2020)

so are there are any trainers you guys would recommend? As i say i like the VS method as i like that it is positive reenforcement, he was a rescue and i feel he has fear based aggression. he is a lovely guy just very nervous of people and other dogs on walks so barks at them if they come near him.


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## Billbailey (Dec 22, 2019)

I've said this before on here but someone once told me 'train the dog that you have, not the dog you're supposed to have'. Which I take to mean that it's important to adapt training to what works on your dog rather than try to make the dog fit the training method. So I take bits and bobs from various places and try them.

For instance, what works on Bill wouldn't work on your boy cos Bill is pretty much fearless. And has the common sense of a blancmange. So his recall and his impulse control are the things I've concentrated on.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

anniek said:


> so are there are any trainers you guys would recommend?


Have a look on YouTube for Kikopup and Chirag Patel (Domesticated Manners), Susan Garrett for impulse control, and look online for Denise Fenzi's blog.

A lot of people like Zak George, personally I find his body language a bit loud.


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