# Celebrating Orientals



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I have been asked to post more pics of my cats so I thought it might be a good idea to show people what lovely cats Orientals are with so many different colours and patterns.
First here is a pic of my old lady Abs just before her 17th birthday. She is Havana, a chocolate colour.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

The Oriental colours that have been my obsession for the last 25+ years are cinnamon and fawn.
First here is a pic of a cinnamon, my Bess as a kitten
















and now her mother my Wibbi who is fawn


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## Karic (Sep 22, 2015)

I love orientals. I have had 3 tabby Orientals who were just gorgeous.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Karic said:


> I love orientals. I have had 3 tabby Orientals who were just gorgeous.


I have bred tabbies in the past because my first cinnamon carrier was a spotty. Is Daisi Mai a ticked? I have bred spotties and classics but no ticked. She is lovely.


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## RubyFelicity (Aug 26, 2013)

So cute and such beautiful colours.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

This is a pic of my first titled cat, Rondo, brown spotty. When his owners asked if they could show him I was horrified because he was not exactly a stunning kitten but as you can see from this ancient scanned pic, he grew up to be quite good looking! (Apologies to those who have seen this one before.)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I have a wonderful black boy, Max. He will be 9 very soon.


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## Karic (Sep 22, 2015)

I don't know what Daisi Mai was - certainly not spotted!


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

Ooooh I'm liking this thread very much!!!!!!!


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## Mum to Missy (Aug 13, 2013)

Stunning cats, all of them just stunning 

I know Missy is a moggy, she is perfect just the way she is and I have no interest in finding out her parentage even if I could, but I can see some Oriental in her from certain angles. Well, definitely more Oriental than Maine Coon


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Thank you for starting this thread @QOTN - it's lovely to see the variety of Orientals :Cat Such beautiful cats


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

What beauts they all are! I can see why cinnamon and fawn are a favourite, lovely colours xx


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

moggie14 said:


> What beauts they all are! I can see why cinnamon and fawn are a favourite, lovely colours xx


I sometimes wonder if the three who are 'different' (lilac, Havana and black) know they are not the same as my three cinnamons, my old cinnamon Siamese, three fawns plus my youngest who is a fawn tortie. I am trying to find a good pic of her which does not show her eyes since we used to call her 'the girl with the golden eyes.' I have gradually got used to the fact they are not green.


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## sarahecp (Aug 22, 2011)

Beautiful cats @QOTN

and especially Max OS, he is stunning, and those gorgeous green eyes


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## MinkyMadam (Apr 12, 2014)

Loving this thread. It's got me dreaming about additions to my fantasy cat wish list!

They're all truly stunning. Though something about @QOTN 's beautiful senior Havana lady Abs is especially appealing to me. A very fine dignified looking lady. Fabulous!!


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

QOTN said:


> I sometimes wonder if the three who are 'different' (lilac, Havana and black) know they are not the same as my three cinnamons, my old cinnamon Siamese, three fawns plus my youngest who is a fawn tortie. I am trying to find a good pic of her which does not show her eyes since we used to call her 'the girl with the golden eyes.' I have gradually got used to the fact they are not green.


Out of interest, what colour eyes follow what colour cat?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

This is the baby of my crowd, Blah de Blah, fawn tortie with the famed tortie attitude.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

moggie14 said:


> Out of interest, what colour eyes follow what colour cat?


All orientals should have green eyes!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

moggie14 said:


> Out of interest, what colour eyes follow what colour cat?


All Orientals except the Foreign White should have green eyes. The FW is really a Siamese painted white and as such has blue eyes.


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

I love this thread! Thank you @QOTN for being persuaded  I don't think I would ever get any work done if they lived with me they are all so, so lovely.
Look at the shine on Max's coat, he looks amazing @OrientalSlave


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

Wow, you're cats are stunning @QOTN , thank you for sharing them with us. I love the one of Abs, what a stately old lady :Happy


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## Citruspips (Jul 6, 2011)

Those pictures have reminded me of a little ornament I have of a black Egyptian cat and I can't find it anywhere but now and again I have a good look for it no doubt one day it will turn up when I'm not expecting it


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Matrod said:


> Wow, you're cats are stunning @QOTN , thank you for sharing them with us. I love the one of Abs, what a stately old lady :Happy


I am hoping to take some more pics of my current tribe and then find some of different colours and patterns from my cats long gone. I have never had silvers of any description so if somebody else has any it would be lovely to see those too.


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

They really are stunning @QOTN


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Citruspips said:


> Those pictures have reminded me of a little ornament I have of a black Egyptian cat and I can't find it anywhere but now and again I have a good look for it no doubt one day it will turn up when I'm not expecting it


Perhaps my Darkness will bring you good luck in finding it.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Ali71 said:


> They really are stunning @QOTN


Thank you for encouraging me to start this. I would love more people to see how fantastic these cats are.


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

QOTN said:


> I am hoping to take some more pics of my current tribe and then find some of different colours and patterns from my cats long gone. I have never had silvers of any description so if somebody else has any it would be lovely to see those too.


The more pictures the better!


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

QOTN said:


> Thank you for encouraging me to start this. I would love more people to see how fantastic these cats are.


Not at all, so glad you did and I agree, the more pictures the better!


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

@QOTN Your cats are simply stunning, I so so want an Ori or Meezer or maybe one of each.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Yay. Orientals!

Here are some of my cheeky little Novi!

As a baby...










And all grown up...










My green eyed little beauty...


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

Sunning herself... (Her favourite thing to do!)










And taken just a few minutes ago... The faces she pulls!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

That last pic of Novi shows real attitude. She is lovely. Blues were my first love. I tried to find a blue girl as my foundation queen but in the end settled for a blue tortie. I am busy looking out ancient snaps of my efforts to breed blues from her but I am afraid they may not scan very well.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

My hunt for reasonable pics of blues, selfs and patterned, is ongoing but, in the process, I found this pic posted mainly for Oriental Slave. This is Mewzishun Siavana the Havana on the umpteenth generation of your girls' pedigree! Sadly, when I went to visit her , she was kept outside.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I bought my foundation queen in 1988 with the intention of breeding blues among other dilute colours. Best laid plans......... There were so few studs able to produce dilutes at that time, I bred blue tabbies and torties but no self blue until 1995 when Oz popped up in one litter and Bluthna was born in 1997. These snaps have not scanned well but here is Oz as a funny worried little kitten, then all grown up and then Bluthna. I have no pic of her as an adult.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

These are two of my favourite photos of Novi... I just love the colour of her coat, so unusual. I do love blues...


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Novi's eyes are lovely.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Perhaps my Darkness will bring you good luck in finding it.
> View attachment 268654


Oh hello beautiful :Kiss.

They are stunning but I'm particularly attracted to the blacks  They just seem to have this aura about them


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

It is surprising that Oriental Blacks are so popular when you think of all the other black cats passed over in rescues. I suppose the 'wicked' look appeals when you see what cuddly dopes they really are.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> It is surprising that Oriental Blacks are so popular when you think of all the other black cats passed over in rescues. I suppose the 'wicked' look appeals when you see what cuddly dopes they really are.


The blacks I've bred have always been the last to find homes. I'm not sure they are very popular, at least not here in Scotland.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> The blacks I've bred have always been the last to find homes. I'm not sure they are very popular, at least not here in Scotland.


Perhaps it is breeders and exhibitors who favour them. After havanas, lilacs and whites, they were the next to gain championship status and there still seem to be more shown than other colours.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Perhaps it is breeders and exhibitors who favour them. After havanas, lilacs and whites, they were the next to gain championship status and there still seem to be more shown than other colours.


Here in Scotland the commonest Orientals on the bench now seem to be the bicolours, though that includes the pointed bicolours who should be in the Siamese section.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Here is Errol (PR Snapy Wildthing) who was a Millenium kitty. He is holding his ears rather high, and he was a bit too dark but I adored him. Photo by Alan Robinson.


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## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

Ohhh I love orientals! So beautiful!

Flint would love to join in this thread but he is only part oriental (and somewhat more tubby and fluffy and cross eyed than the purebred pedigree beauties!)


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

All are welcome here, Flint. You are definitely more Oriental than Siamese and you often feature on the Siamese thread!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Here is Errol (PR Snapy Wildthing) who was a Millenium kitty. He is holding his ears rather high, and he was a bit too dark but I adored him. Photo by Alan Robinson.
> 
> View attachment 268970


It is the nature of cats to raise their ears when they are showing interest in something. The Siamese and Orientals who have a low *fixed* ear set are not able to fully express their feelings and this can lead to misunderstandings with their own kind. Is he by any chance coming down from Snapy Hesagem? If so he also has my Havana girl on his pedigree.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Here in Scotland the commonest Orientals on the bench now seem to be the bicolours, though that includes the pointed bicolours who should be in the Siamese section.


Bicolours are still 'the newest thing' so like all fashion, people jump on the bandwagon but I am sure this will soon pass. I do hope so!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> <snip>
> Is he by any chance coming down from Snapy Hesagem? If so he also has my Havana girl on his pedigree.


He is some complicated sort of cousin through Adrayam Saphire.

His pedigree: https://shunracats.wordpress.com/errols-pedigree/

Snapy Hesagem: https://www.pawpeds.com/db/?a=p&id=801642&g=4&p=sia&date=iso&o=ajgrep


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Bicolours are still 'the newest thing' so like all fashion, people jump on the bandwagon but I am sure this will soon pass. I do hope so!


I've not see dilute bicolours, suspect I will think they are a whole lot nicer than the ones I've seen so far because of less contrast between white and whatever colour they are.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Ringypie said:


> Ohhh I love orientals! So beautiful!
> 
> Flint would love to join in this thread but he is only part oriental (and somewhat more tubby and fluffy and cross eyed than the purebred pedigree beauties!)


Looks like you've taken the photo from very close possibly using a phone camera. He is looking at you, because you are so close he looks cross-eyed, or more so than if you are a couple of yards away.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> He is some complicated sort of cousin through Adrayam Saphire.
> 
> His pedigree: https://shunracats.wordpress.com/errols-pedigree/
> 
> Snapy Hesagem: https://www.pawpeds.com/db/?a=p&id=801642&g=4&p=sia&date=iso&o=ajgrep


No relation to my girl then but I love his pedigree. So many cats that bring back memories.


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## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Looks like you've taken the photo from very close possibly using a phone camera. He is looking at you, because you are so close he looks cross-eyed, or more so than if you are a couple of yards away.





OrientalSlave said:


> Looks like you've taken the photo from very close possibly using a phone camera. He is looking at you, because you are so close he looks cross-eyed, or more so than if you are a couple of yards away.


No - he's cross eyed all the time! Sometimes more so than in this pic. Somehow fits in with his daft personality!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Ringypie said:


> No - he's cross eyed all the time! Sometimes more so than in this pic. Somehow fits in with his daft personality!


I didn't like to comment having noticed it before!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> No relation to my girl then but I love his pedigree. So many cats that bring back memories.


Thanks. Sadly his breeder vanished without trace only a few years after I got him.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Thanks. Sadly his breeder vanished without trace only a few years after I got him.


So many do! She phoned me once asking for a girl but I had nothing suitable.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Wow what a lovely thread QOTN!!

Just love Meeko and Rondo but then I am a sucker for a spotted/tabby and the markings are lovely!!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

huckybuck said:


> Wow what a lovely thread QOTN!!
> 
> Just love Meeko and Rondo but then I am a sucker for a spotted/tabby and the markings are lovely!!


Thank you. We shall be coming to the classic tabbies in due course!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Here's a photo of Lola, the mother of Eadlin & Aoife. I realised she carried chocolate OR cinnamon, DNA tested her, found it was cinnamon and was lucky enough to find a cinnamon stud carrying dilute for her first litter, and a black carrying cinnamon & dilute for her second, so she has 
had black, blue, cinnamon & fawn kittens. She is now spayed and living with Sheila who used to breed Siamese with the prefix Takata


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> The blacks I've bred have always been the last to find homes. I'm not sure they are very popular, at least not here in Scotland.


Oh really?

Clearly no one has any taste for classic and timeless elegance then


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## CKins (Oct 14, 2011)

Gosh, what absolutely stunning puss cats :Kiss all of them are just beautiful.

I love their pointy features, they always look so calm and regal...I somehow doubt their personalities match that...they look naughty...

Blues are my favourite although the black ones on this thread are amazing!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Pappychi said:


> Oh really?
> 
> Clearly no one has any taste for classic and timeless elegance then


You will see plenty of pics of blacks here @Pappychi This is a recent pic of DD (Daughter of Darkness when she is good, Devil's Daughter when not) with the cinnamon girl she lives with. She is certainly popular with her owner and one of my vets wanted her when she was a tiny kitten. He *loves* blacks.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

That photo shows how well cinnamon sets off a good green eye colour.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> That photo shows how well cinnamon sets off a good green eye colour.


That cinnamon girl is a Suspiria, litter sister of the first fawn grand champion. Those cats particularly the fawns did have lovely coat and eye colour but are not what you would call typy! Strangely her nickname is Piggy and I can still remember one report for The Pig, my cinnamon boy who lived to be 18 and a half. It remarked on the stunning effect of cinnamon with his green eye colour. Sadly not all cinnamons have good eye colour.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Sadly there are Orientals of all colours and patterns with poor eye colour... Max that I adore has distinctly yellow eyes. Come to that Aoife's eyes look yellow from some directions in some lights, but green in others. Eadlin's look green in just about all lights including show halls.


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## LizzieandLoca (Jun 30, 2014)

CKins said:


> Gosh, what absolutely stunning puss cats :Kiss all of them are just beautiful.
> 
> I love their pointy features, they always look so calm and regal...I somehow doubt their personalities match that...they look naughty...
> 
> Blues are my favourite although the black ones on this thread are amazing!


Calm and regal?

I certainly don't think Novi got that memo! (Says the slave who was woken up at 4am by Novi having somehow opened the drawer to the bed divan, removed the bedding that was neatly folded and wedged herself behind the drawer, inside the bed - yelling at the top of her voice, of course!)


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I have now been completely distracted from my search for more spotty pics. I am afraid the quality of all these scanned snaps is poor but loads of memories for me. For @Pappychi the last pic of my QOTN









Then her two most famous babies, The Pig and Sinfo as kittens. (They did have lovely green eyes and spicy coats even if these pics don't show them to full advantage.) Sinfo was the first GCCF cinnamon champion. There is a horrible pic of her available in lots of places but I will find a better 'grown up' one for this thread. The Pig was the first GCCF grand premier.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

What fabulous eye colour they have in those photos.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

QOTN said:


> I have now been completely distracted from my search for more spotty pics. I am afraid the quality of all these scanned snaps is poor but loads of memories for me. For @Pappychi the last pic of my QOTN
> View attachment 269265
> 
> 
> ...


My gosh, how stunning!!!!!


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I have now been completely distracted from my search for more spotty pics. I am afraid the quality of all these scanned snaps is poor but loads of memories for me. For @Pappychi the last pic of my QOTN
> View attachment 269265
> 
> 
> ...


Magical .

I shall be adding a black oriental to my 'one day' list I think :Hilarious There's something so magical about them, they could almost be a real witches cat :Nailbiting*

*The cinnamon colouration is beautiful as well


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

This thread is having a 'spotty' day today especially for @huckybuck and anybody else who loves tabbies. I am starting with a couple more pics of Rondo, brown spotty, the second shows a silver spotty he lived with. I have no silver pics of my own since mixing cinnamon with silver is really bad news for the self colour.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Blue is the dilute of black and is hard to get a good pattern. One of the Oriental judges said they have a 'very short shelf life' before their spots tend to disappear.
The first two pics are Bunting, a kitten in my first ever litter born 1990, the next two are of a boy born in 1995 pet name Baby Ron.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Chocolate spotties next. The first two are Shee Leppard, the second pic chosen specially to show the natural elegance of an Oriental cat! The third is her sister Jenny showing the difference in colour between sun and shade.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I don't have many pics of lilacs since cinnamon carriers are usually the 'wrong' colour lilac but this is Baby Ron's sister, Dolly.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Last of the spotties for today are some baby cinnamon pics.


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## MilleD (Feb 15, 2016)

Rondo is beautiful. And I adore that cinnamon colour - so unusual (at least to me ).


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Today is ClassyB's chance to show his stunning pattern. Shame about the type and eye colour but you can't have everything. He also had the most amazing temperament which makes most other things irrelevant. I only bred two classic tabbies, this boy and a cinnamon but I cannot find pics of her at the moment.
The kitten pic is scanned from a snap so is a poor chocolate colour and also the flash spoiled his eyes but the pic as a big fat cuddly neuter is a better colour.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

All the talk of new babies on other threads has made me nostalgic for my last litter born so long ago (2010.) I won't post too many pics of them very young. Cinnamon slugs are probably an acquired taste but I think they are adorable when they are a couple of months old.



























Now I am on a quest to look for even more memories.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

For me cinnamon & fawn are fantastic colours for Orientals. I find the contrast of the coat & eye colour really makes them. I've seen a cinnamon BSH, his eyes were a good colour but vanished into his coat. The contrast was better on a fawn BSH.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Two more pics of Wib with babies.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Aww that top picture should be on a Mother's Day card :Cat


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

lymorelynn said:


> Aww that top picture should be on a Mother's Day card :Cat


Agreed! Pulling baby in for a snuggle :Kiss:Kiss:Kiss:Kiss


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

daisysmama said:


> Agreed! Pulling baby in for a snuggle :Kiss:Kiss:Kiss:Kiss


I agree but during her time as a mother she was totally out of character, gentle and thoughtful to her babies. Normally Wib is in your face shouting her head off, walking all over you whenever you sit down and generally being the proverbial pain. (Plus showing that latter part of her anatomy to all visitors at every opportunity!)

The kitten being cuddled is my Dozee Gozee. She and her sister were rejected after 6 weeks in their new home and came back to live with me and Wibbi has refused to have anything at all to do with them but please don't think Wibbi is a nasty person. She is just not sensitive to the feelings of others!


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

QOTN said:


> I agree but during her time as a mother she was totally out of character, gentle and thoughtful to her babies. Normally Wib is in your face shouting her head off, walking all over you whenever you sit down and generally being the proverbial pain. (Plus showing that latter part of her anatomy to all visitors at every opportunity!)
> 
> The kitten being cuddled is my Dozee Gozee. She and her sister were rejected after 6 weeks in their new home and came back to live with me and Wibbi has refused to have anything at all to do with them but please don't think Wibbi is a nasty person. She is just not sensitive to the feelings of others!


I wouldn't think that @QOTN motherhood does crazy things to people (I'm speaking from experience)


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## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Two more pics of Wib with babies.
> View attachment 269992
> 
> 
> View attachment 269993


Oh my goodness..... They are utterly stunning! All your pics are beautiful but the cinnamons omg!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I could not resist posting some more pics of my Dozee Gozee as a kitten and then a couple all grown up. I only have a few more recent pics simply because she looks so dopey most of the time, we keep it as a secret among her friends who know that she is really the sweetest, gentlest, most loving girl you could imagine. She cannot help having just the one brain cell and looking like a big butch boy!


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

QOTN said:


> I could not resist posting some more pics of my Dozee Gozee as a kitten and then a couple all grown up. I only have a few more recent pics simply because she looks so dopey most of the time, we keep it as a secret among her friends who know that she is really the sweetest, gentlest, most loving girl you could imagine. She cannot help having just the one brain cell and looking like a big butch boy!
> View attachment 270029
> 
> 
> ...


She is utterly gorgeous, how an earth could she be rejected?????


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

These Orientals are stunning :Kiss

I think this breed will definitely be on my 'one day' list along with Siamese and Bengals :Wacky

That list is almost as long as my one day dog list  Just need to find a rich man to indulge my fantasies now :Hilarious


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

oliviarussian said:


> She is utterly gorgeous, how an earth could she be rejected?????


You can never guarantee that what you are told is the real reason but I did not know the new owner was having work done on her kitchen when she took the two girls. That is where the litter tray was and she never thought to relocate it when the workmen were there. She would even shut them in the bedroom with no tray access so, if it was that they were choosing elsewhere rather than using the tray at those times as she said I would not have been surprised. My only suspicion there was another motive was because I had to collect them a few days before she had booked them to be neutered. She had not had a cat for a long time and I wonder if the cost frightened her. (Just an idea of mine.)

It finally convinced me to give up breeding as that last litter had been a nightmare from the unsuitable owner point of view. The Havana boy, Ricci was rejected after three days because he 'was not settling in' when I had watched him on their laps in front of a huge tv before I left him and I delivered one of the other cinnamon girls, Bess, to a home over two hours away only to bring her straight home because the state of the home was a hazard to a kitten. The other cinnamon girl went to somebody who had a kitten from me before so she is fine and Ricci found a wonderful home immediately with somebody who had phoned wanting him while I was delivering him to the failed one. Bess, Gozee and Em are here with me where I know they are safe and loved.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

QOTN said:


> Bess, Gozee and Em are here with me where I know they are safe and loved.


Gosh that sounds a nightmare! Their loss and your gain!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I do think I have been neglecting my fawns in this thread. It took me so many years to breed my first. 15 years of lots of spotties all colours and other selfs including my lovely cinnamons and then my first fawn born in 2005. I don't have a pic of her but my three resident fawns are Wib who deserves another pic on her own instead as just The Mum in the background with her babies. I apologise for the thumb holding her down but she is hyperactive and always in your face.









Then my blind boy Biscuit whose story was posted on this forum by a friend long before I was a member.









Last but by no means least Wibbi's mum, my shy Rose. This is a pic of her as a young girl but I will post others another time.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

QOTN said:


> I do think I have been neglecting my fawns in this thread. It took me so many years to breed my first. 15 years of lots of spotties all colours and other selfs including my lovely cinnamons and then my first fawn born in 2005. I don't have a pic of her but my three resident fawns are Wib who deserves another pic on her own instead as just The Mum in the background with her babies. I apologise for the thumb holding her down but she is hyperactive and always in your face.
> View attachment 270296
> 
> 
> ...


Can we have biscuits story pleeeeeeeese!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

oliviarussian said:


> Can we have biscuits story pleeeeeeeese!


I am not sure it will interest many people because it was written for breeders and posted there in January 2013 I think. Anyway I have attached it in case anybody would like to see it.


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

QOTN said:


> I am not sure it will interest many people because it was written for breeders and posted there in January 2013 I think. Anyway I have attached it in case anybody would like to see it.


It interested me @QOTN it must've been absolutely heartbreaking. How did biscuit cope with total blindness?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

daisysmama said:


> It interested me @QOTN it must've been absolutely heartbreaking. How did biscuit cope with total blindness?


Biscuit is remarkable really. These days he seems to have a really tough nose! This means he is pretty quick getting about the place because he just bangs his nose if he makes a mistake calculating distances. He used to feel upset but now just carries on regardless. It has been more difficult for him than it was for Sinfo his grandmother, because she was older and in a group with even older cats whereas Biscuit is the oldest in his group and feels the need to try to keep up with all the dashing about. I have a double sided woodstove linking two rooms and he can smack Darkness, then, when she runs down the side of the stove to get away from him, he quick as a flash goes down on his belly and under the stove, meets her at the other side to give her another smack! (All revenge for her treatment of him of course.)

The other problem he has is the fact he lives in the working part of the house. You should never move anything with a blind cat but of course things are temporarily moved in the kitchen all the time. Instead of waiting until things have been replaced in their normal position, Biscuit has to check every temporary move which is very inconvenient for me and frustrating for him. With Sinfo she would always wait until I showed her if I moved something permanently which was so much easier to deal with.

He is also much more foolhardy now. He will try to barge through any door even the front door if parcels are being delivered or somebody is just standing outside chatting. He would happily march off up the garden path if allowed. When I make a mistake and leave the door to the stairs open, it is always Biscuit who has blundered upstairs and annoyed the upstairs cats.

In a way PRA has one advantage over something that actually causes loss of the eye completely. The retina is destroyed but cats are still aware of the difference between bright light and shade. He used to ask me to pick him up by the big kitchen window every day because he wanted to check if he could see anything in the brightness but of course he sees no image at all. He only asks me to do it occasionally now so I think he has finally given up hope.

Only this week I heard that one of Wibbi's brothers is nearly blind. His owners did not want to know in advance so had not tested him but it really worries me how she will cope. She is just such a livewire. She is nearly 8 so I am hoping she will be one of the ones who are really old before they show signs. In a way I am unlucky because cats I have bred tend to live long lives. Many Siamese and Orientals seem to die at 5 or 6 these days so may well escape the effects of this horrible gene. I am afraid this is why the BAC refuse to take the steps necessary to avoid the spread of blindness amongst these cats. Their cats don't live long so why bother about the ones that do. I am very cynical about the claims of 'Welfare comes first' from all levels of the GCCF.

Sorry for the saga but you did ask! One of my hobby horses I am afraid.


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

QOTN said:


> Biscuit is remarkable really. These days he seems to have a really tough nose! This means he is pretty quick getting about the place because he just bangs his nose if he makes a mistake calculating distances. He used to feel upset but now just carries on regardless. It has been more difficult for him than it was for Sinfo his grandmother, because she was older and in a group with even older cats whereas Biscuit is the oldest in his group and feels the need to try to keep up with all the dashing about. I have a double sided woodstove linking two rooms and he can smack Darkness, then, when she runs down the side of the stove to get away from him, he quick as a flash goes down on his belly and under the stove, meets her at the other side to give her another smack! (All revenge for her treatment of him of course.)
> 
> The other problem he has is the fact he lives in the working part of the house. You should never move anything with a blind cat but of course things are temporarily moved in the kitchen all the time. Instead of waiting until things have been replaced in their normal position, Biscuit has to check every temporary move which is very inconvenient for me and frustrating for him. With Sinfo she would always wait until I showed her if I moved something permanently which was so much easier to deal with.
> 
> ...


He sounds remarkable and is obviously coping well. I think being able to tell the difference between light and dark must be a small blessing rather than just being thrown into permanent darkness with no idea why.
My mum's dog is going blind. She has always struggled to see in the dark so we take a torch with us and flash it at her so she knows where we are. We have learnt from experience when one night she couldn't see us so took herself home! The get advised not to move furniture so that she doesn't bump into things. Another thing she has started doing on walks is leaning against legs, possibly so that she feels secure. 
I know Carly tests all her cats for PRA being colourpoints and cpc it is a worry.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

daisysmama said:


> He sounds remarkable and is obviously coping well. I think being able to tell the difference between light and dark must be a small blessing rather than just being thrown into permanent darkness with no idea why.
> My mum's dog is going blind. She has always struggled to see in the dark so we take a torch with us and flash it at her so she knows where we are. We have learnt from experience when one night she couldn't see us so took herself home! The get advised not to move furniture so that she doesn't bump into things. Another thing she has started doing on walks is leaning against legs, possibly so that she feels secure.
> I know Carly tests all her cats for PRA being colourpoints and cpc it is a worry.


The Persian form of PRA is caused by a different gene and is dominant and early onset, so, although it has only fairly recently been discovered, I expect there is not the ostrich mentality there is with the CEP290 mutation.

Animals do tend to do their best to adapt to their situation but it does not change the fact that, without sight, their lives are so restricted. If you know cats well, you realise how much sight means to them. One of the homozygous cats on our database went blind at the age of 2. It is so sad to think of a cat who has barely experienced the world being deprived of most of her reaction with it. She was in a multicat household as well so was incredibly stressed. I don't know what has happened to her. So far, of the cats I have bred, Biscuit was the youngest at 6.

There are several different genes that cause PRA in dogs. Does your Parents' dog have PRA?


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

QOTN said:


> The Persian form of PRA is caused by a different gene and is dominant and early onset, so, although it has only fairly recently been discovered, I expect there is not the ostrich mentality there is with the CEP290 mutation.
> 
> Animals do tend to do their best to adapt to their situation but it does not change the fact that, without sight, their lives are so restricted. If you know cats well, you realise how much sight means to them. One of the homozygous cats on our database went blind at the age of 2. It is so sad to think of a cat who has barely experienced the world being deprived of most of her reaction with it. She was in a multicat household as well so was incredibly stressed. I don't know what has happened to her. So far, of the cats I have bred, Biscuit was the youngest at 6.
> 
> There are several different genes that cause PRA in dogs. Does your Parents' dog have PRA?


It must be heart breaking especially at such a young age.
Saffy (the dog) started with eye problems at around six months. She had cherry eye in both eyes which was successfully repaired then a few months later she developed issues with her tear ducts which meant that she was not producing tears at all and her eyes became very dry and sore so for the last 7 years my mum has been using special drops to keep her eyes moist. She developed cataracts when she was 4 which didn't seem to bother her and the vet deemed that she would be ok. On her last eye check they had noticed that her pupils were not reacting to light as they had done previously. She is 9 years old now and is quite happy to lay in the sun and be a spoilt princess which my parents are happy to indulge. She is covered in sebaceous cysts that burst occasionally so has the nickname 'lumpy puppy' she has started to slow down a bit but the breed are generally long lived so she won't be going anywhere for a while yet


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

daisysmama said:


> It must be heart breaking especially at such a young age.
> Saffy (the dog) started with eye problems at around six months. She had cherry eye in both eyes which was successfully repaired then a few months later she developed issues with her tear ducts which meant that she was not producing tears at all and her eyes became very dry and sore so for the last 7 years my mum has been using special drops to keep her eyes moist. She developed cataracts when she was 4 which didn't seem to bother her and the vet deemed that she would be ok. On her last eye check they had noticed that her pupils were not reacting to light as they had done previously. She is 9 years old now and is quite happy to lay in the sun and be a spoilt princess which my parents are happy to indulge. She is covered in sebaceous cysts that burst occasionally so has the nickname 'lumpy puppy' she has started to slow down a bit but the breed are generally long lived so she won't be going anywhere for a while yet


Poor Saffy if her eyes have been a problem all her life. She is very lucky to have your parents. Some owners would have rejected her as too much trouble. It is good that she has managed to enjoy her life despite her problems.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I think these may be the worst pics so far in this thread but I had to post them because I have just noticed that my Blah de Blah also known as The Girl with the Golden Eyes may not be aptly named any longer. Is it my imagination or are they turning a little bit green at nearly 4 years old?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I love this pic of my QOTN because it reminds me of her obsession with kittens. That included other girls' babies as well as her own. She used to steal them if she could and even appropriated a couple of still born ones once whilst her mother was giving birth.
Here she is looking over the barrier into the kitten room checking that the kittens in there were being cared for properly.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

June is a busy month for birthdays chez Mewzishun. First comes Darkness now nine years old. The first time I went to visit her she looked like this. If you think her breeder is trying to strangle her I must stress no kittens were harmed in taking this pic!








She soon became an elegant young lady.









How she became the Darkfatblackness we know and love today is rather a mystery but I think it may be something to do with her obsession with turkey.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

QOTN said:


> June is a busy month for birthdays chez Mewzishun. First comes Darkness now nine years old. The first time I went to visit her she looked like this. If you think her breeder is trying to strangle her I must stress no kittens were harmed in taking this pic!
> View attachment 273529
> 
> She soon became an elegant young lady.
> ...


Just breathtakingly beautiful


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## mooikatje (Aug 1, 2015)

QOTN said:


> June is a busy month for birthdays chez Mewzishun. First comes Darkness now nine years old. The first time I went to visit her she looked like this. If you think her breeder is trying to strangle her I must stress no kittens were harmed in taking this pic!
> View attachment 273529
> 
> She soon became an elegant young lady.
> ...


She is just lovely!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Happy Birthday Wibbi. 8 years old today. I had to wait until dusk to get a pic of a stationary Wibbi so the colours are a bit odd.









Here is a more typical pic of Wib poised to spring into action.









On 14th June 2010 my last litter was born, Wib's only kittens. There are pics elsewhere of them as babies. I did not feel like taking pics last week because I lost my old cinnamon Siamese boy so here are pics of Wib's 'gingers' today instead.
First is Em who tries to keep me to herself









Then Gozee who is always shouting at me in her big boy's voice









Last is Bess who does not like cameras.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Happy Birthday Wibbi. 8 years old today. I had to wait until dusk to get a pic of a stationary Wibbi so the colours are a bit odd.
> View attachment 274960
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear you lost your old cinnamon Meezer 

Just gorgeous as per usual @QOTN the Oriental and Siamese breeds just have this magical allure to me. Beautiful inside and out.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Belated happy birthday Wibbi. They are all so beautiful.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Lovely lovely photos! Happy Birthday Wibbi xx :Happy


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

Happy Birthday Wibbi 

So very sorry you've lost your old boy  xx


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Matrod said:


> Happy Birthday Wibbi
> 
> So very sorry you've lost your old boy  xx


Thank you @Matrod as you may know it had been a struggle to keep him going for years with pancreatitis, then CKD and finally diabetes. With so much medication including sub-cut fluids every two days, I did worry that he might be unhappy but only the week before at his checkup my vet had said how stable he seemed physically but we would monitor his state of mind more carefully in the future.

I came downstairs one morning to find him sprawled on the floor in a pool of fluid, cold as ice but still alive. I felt terrible because I had never before let any of my cats get to the stage where the vet could not find a vein. He had to be anaesthetised and injected straight into the heart. It certainly makes me question whether, with certain treatments, just because we can we should. My old Abs who is nearly 18, has CKD now and she only has an antacid. She is on so many medications for other conditions, I have refused to pester her with constant sub-cut sessions. I think sub-cut can be a miracle worker but I shall probably reserve it in future for situations where it is not simply postponing the inevitable.

At least my other cats will have more of my attention now. His companion, Bear, is very lonely at the moment so I have the worry of trying to integrate him into one of my other groups. Speaking of Bear it reminds me that this thread desperately needs some pics of an Oriental Lilac who is such a 'funny' colour, he was an Oriental Caramel IC qualifier when they were working towards championship status.


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

QOTN said:


> Thank you @Matrod as you may know it had been a struggle to keep him going for years with pancreatitis, then CKD and finally diabetes. With so much medication including sub-cut fluids every two days, I did worry that he might be unhappy but only the week before at his checkup my vet had said how stable he seemed physically but we would monitor his state of mind more carefully in the future.
> 
> I came downstairs one morning to find him sprawled on the floor in a pool of fluid, cold as ice but still alive. I felt terrible because I had never before let any of my cats get to the stage where the vet could not find a vein. He had to be anaesthetised and injected straight into the heart. It certainly makes me question whether, with certain treatments, just because we can we should. My old Abs who is nearly 18, has CKD now and she only has an antacid. She is on so many medications for other conditions, I have refused to pester her with constant sub-cut sessions. I think sub-cut can be a miracle worker but I shall probably reserve it in future for situations where it is not simply postponing the inevitable.
> 
> At least my other cats will have more of my attention now. His companion, Bear, is very lonely at the moment so I have the worry of trying to integrate him into one of my other groups. Speaking of Bear it reminds me that this thread desperately needs some pics of an Oriental Lilac who is such a 'funny' colour, he was an Oriental Caramel IC qualifier when they were working towards championship status.


You mustn't feel terrible, it sounds like he was doing well until he suddenly crashed. I do agree with you as to whether we should make these interventions with regards to their health, I guess it's all down to individual cats & how well they tolerate it & whether it improves their quality of life for the time they have left & from what I've seen from your previous posts this is certainly the case for your boy.

In the early stages of my old girls ckd I thought I would use sub q fluids later on but I wouldn't now, she's at the edge of her tolerance with various meds & to add to that now would be of detriment much the same as your Abs. Poor Bear, I hope he can find comfort with the others x

Looking forward to pictures of the Lilac, this thread has me hankering after an Oriental :Arghh!


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

So sorry you lost your lad @QOTN I know you did everything you could to keep stable and happy. 
Your 'gingers' are stunning. Em has a cheeky glint in her eye


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear that you have lost your cinnamon boy - it's always sad no matter how they leave us  I hope Bear finds some comfort from one of your others


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I have been trying to take some good pics of my poor, lonely Bear. The integration with another group has not started yet because it seems that Darkness is unsettled because I was changing a few things in order to make introductions easier so we have the status quo at the moment.

Bear needs to be cuddled so much it is hard to get him to pose so here is a pic of him when he was a big kitten









His tear ducts have a constriction which causes tears to run down his face sometimes. He had various procedures but they were not successful in straightening the kinks so I did not feel I could find him a home. He is 11 years old now and has never had a problem with his eyes although they are probably too deepset, which can be a problem in our breeds.

He is a 'funny colour lilac' because he carries cinnamon but I reregistered him as caramel and he helped the Oriental Caramels gain championship status even though I don't believe that caramel is really a colour. (I was helping a friend who was very keen.)
Here is a pic which rather emphasises the fact his eyes ae not prominent enough but I will take some others later to show him better especially his funny colour tummy.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

To those of my friends who like very long phone conversations, Bear is know as R. Bear because of his habit of saying Ahhhhh very loudly into the phone if he thinks the call has been taking too long. (I don't tell them he does it at other times as well.) He is my biggest cat. I will try to get a pic of him stretched out scratching one of his paradise barrels but this will do for now.









At the moment he can make himself look small and vulnerable but it is out of character









Pic as promised of his 'funny' tummy, hardly the pinkish grey required in the Standard of Points


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

Poor Bear being lonely  I do hope he can integrate with another group. He's absolutely gorgeous & what a great way to get out a long phone conversation, I need a cat like that .


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## GingerNinja (Mar 23, 2014)

Oh wow he is gorgeous! I would love an oriental one day


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

He's adorable. Thank you so much for this thread, I am fascinated by this breed! 

I am so sorry you lost your boy, and that Bear is sad too x


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

My foundation queen, Dorabella was born at the beginning of September 1988. She was a blue tortie. In 2012, a breeder who had a girl of mine agreed to take her daughter to a red point Siamese in the hope of a fawn tortie to be my last ever queen. On the 2nd September D'bella Fawnale was born and named after her great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother. Her pet name was going to be Bella but was soon changed to Blah de Blah. As she grew older it became obvious she was not a very good colour fawn and her eyes were definitely not a good green so I decided she was not good enough for breeding. I never consider outing my cats so there can be no more kittens.
Happy Birthday, Blah. 4 years old today and last of the line. 
First is the pic I took the very first time I saw her, 2 weeks old.









Then when she was about 6 weeks old









Then just after she came home to me









And lastly two pics as she is today


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

QOTN said:


> My foundation queen, Dorabella was born at the beginning of September 1988. She was a blue tortie. In 2012, a breeder who had a girl of mine agreed to take her daughter to a red point Siamese in the hope of a fawn tortie to be my last ever queen. On the 2nd September D'bella Fawnale was born and named after her great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother. Her pet name was going to be Bella but was soon changed to Blah de Blah. As she grew older it became obvious she was not a very good colour fawn and her eyes were definitely not a good green so I decided she was not good enough for breeding. I never consider outing my cats so there can be no more kittens.
> Happy Birthday, Blah. 4 years old today and last of the line.
> First is the pic I took the very first time I saw her, 2 weeks old.
> View attachment 282372
> ...


She is absolutely stunning :Happy. Happy Birthday Blah :Cat


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## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

QOTN said:


> My foundation queen, Dorabella was born at the beginning of September 1988. She was a blue tortie. In 2012, a breeder who had a girl of mine agreed to take her daughter to a red point Siamese in the hope of a fawn tortie to be my last ever queen. On the 2nd September D'bella Fawnale was born and named after her great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother. Her pet name was going to be Bella but was soon changed to Blah de Blah. As she grew older it became obvious she was not a very good colour fawn and her eyes were definitely not a good green so I decided she was not good enough for breeding. I never consider outing my cats so there can be no more kittens.
> Happy Birthday, Blah. 4 years old today and last of the line.
> First is the pic I took the very first time I saw her, 2 weeks old.
> View attachment 282372
> ...


Happy birthday beautiful girl!


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## thedebonair (Sep 2, 2011)

Love that name!!! Yours cats are all stunning  x


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

Happy belated birthday to Blah. She's beautiful. I love how all your cats have wonderful, quirky names


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Blah thanks everybody for their birthday greetings.

Her birthday coincided with a thread about Naughty Torties. Only one of the torties I have bred has been naughty so I am off to dig out some pics of sweet, gentle, kind torties.

I am afraid my cats have odd names. They start out with registered names which have to fit with my Mewzishun prefix and often their pet names originally bear some relation to their registered names as in Blah's name but she does go on and on so it was inevitably going to change. (I am being a little unfair to her here because she has certainly quietened down as she has got older.)

My first black girl was Queenofthenight, shortened to QOTN on her weight chart and that stuck for her whole life. Darkness was also registered Queenofthenight so had to have a different pet name. I still call her Darkness a lot of the time but she also answers to Black Thing, Fat Black Thing and Darkfatblackness. 

One of my cinnamon girls was registered Harmonia Mundi, shortened to Moany Mundi for obvious reasons, then MM, now Em.

I really cannot remember why Bear has that name because he is registered Isserlis.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

My foundation queen, Dorabella, was a blue tortie but I have neglected all torties apart from Blah in this thread, so here are a few pics of the torties I have bred.
First some of Dorabella

























Next her daughter Mouse, another blue tortie helping with the gardening. I cannot find a pic of Mouse's sister who was a lilac.








I had three other torties all in one litter, Kissy, fawn, Mellie, caramel and Imp chocolate. I am afraid these pics are not very good but they might give an idea of the different colours. 
























They were all sweet gentle girls apart from Mellie who had real tortie attitude.


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## anachronism (Jan 30, 2014)

What beautiful cats


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## The Wild Bunch (Jul 16, 2014)

Stunning cats @QOTN all of them look like such characters too


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## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

Such beautiful unusual girls! Absolutely stunning!


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## Acidic Angel (May 8, 2012)

I love oriental's so much!

My mums cat Bugsy appears to have oriental of some form in her. We were told her parents were siamese crosses though we have no idea what with. She's the spitting image of them though, they looked identical to her  Here's some photo's of her, without trying to take over the thread about orientals lol.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I have managed to find a pic of Imp all grown up. For some reason it would not transfer from my old laptop so I had to take a pic of the pic! This makes her look very dark but she was chocolate. Such a darling girl.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Abs, my old Havana lady is 18 years old today. I am shocked how much older she looks today compared with the first pic in this thread, but, despite all her problems, she is still very bright. At her last vet check-up, she had gained 400gms so the thyroid medication must be working. She still has Vetergesic pain killer every day which means I have been able to keep her alive since April 2014.









I have spent the last 15 plus years trying to make up for the terrible mistake I made in the choice of her first home. She went as a breeding queen with my usual stipulation that she would be a pet first and foremost. I discovered she was kept in a pen as soon as she became adult. She had two litters. The breeder used to bring the girls indoors just when they were due to give birth and put them back outside, separating them from their babies when the kittens were 6 weeks old. I managed to retrieve her by devious means sometime after her 2nd birthday. She came back pregnant but that is a different story. She was an absolutely obsessive mother. She could hardly believe she could keep her babies for so long when she was here. She was neutered when she was 4 years old and has spent the last 14 years terrorising many of the other cats (she has a very forceful personality,) but in recent years she has mellowed enormously and is very happy living with Em and Gozee her great, great, great, grandkits and especially Blah her gr,gr,gr,gr,grandkit. Blah is absolutely devoted to Abs so I dread how she will react when Abs finally goes but for now, she is determined to be my oldest ever cat. She has already survived longer than any of my other girls but my old cinnamon boy lived to be 18 and a half so she has quite a way to go.


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

Happy birthday Abs, what a grand old lady! ♥


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

Happy Birthday Abs







, great to hear she's doing well & put on weight. She's a beautiful old lady :Happy


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I have just managed to get a different pic of Abs, wide awake and glaring at me because she has just been given her Felimazole. It shows a different side to her personality! She isn't always the cuddly purry lady. She still nags cats and human all the time if we step out of line. (She doesn't have anything in her eye. I think it is a reflection.)


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Happy Birthday beautiful Abs! @QOTN I am so glad you started this thread to show these stunning babies


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Ali71 said:


> Happy Birthday beautiful Abs! @QOTN I am so glad you started this thread to show these stunning babies


It was your idea but I love an excuse to talk about them!


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Oh she is such a wonderful older gal! Such personality showing in her face and still a beauty even if not in her prime.
Happy Birthday Abs.


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## Pappychi (Aug 12, 2015)

Oh such beauties @QOTN and Abs has such soulful eyes :Kiss

I love the startling array of colour patterns on Orientals, I could see myself having a houseful of these beauties


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Pappychi said:


> Oh such beauties @QOTN and Abs has such soulful eyes :Kiss
> 
> I love the startling array of colour patterns on Orientals, I could see myself having a houseful of these beauties


I have a houseful. They take over your life.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Many happy returns beautiful Abs :Cat


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

lymorelynn said:


> Many happy returns beautiful Abs :Cat


Abs says thank you. Actually, she *shouts thank you *because, since she went deaf, the decibels are painful especially when she is beside your pillow in the middle of the night.


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

@QOTN I had no idea that you were an Oriental breeder/owner until I read this thread today I tend to get much less forum time these days both lurking and posting. I've loved looking through the pics of your cats - they are all absolutely stunning.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Thank you @Lunabuma . They are addictive. I had my first Siamese and Oriental in 1977 but my first litter was not born until 1990. I did not let very many of my cats go for breeding but I would love to know if there are any Mewzishuns in your pedigrees.


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

@QOTN My two (GCCF) are from a hobby breeder in Kent who only had a few litters. Your prefix doesn't ring a bell but I'll have a look at the paperwork it would be cool if there was a link.


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## Clawsha (Oct 12, 2016)

Loved this thread... Orientals are just beautiful


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

My Baby Biscuit is ten years old. I find it hard to believe. His first photo session aged just three weeks was posing for my 2006 Christmas card.









In no time at all he was a big butch boy although at 5 months he was still suckling his mother.









I have already posted some pics of him all grown up but I don't think this one is in this thread although it is elsewhere on the internet to show people what to look for when their cat has PRA.









It is hard to realise he has now been blind for 4 years but I shall take some pics tomorrow to show what a clever boy he is and how well he copes.


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## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

QOTN said:


> My Baby Biscuit is ten years old. I find it hard to believe. His first photo session aged just three weeks was posing for my 2006 Christmas card.
> View attachment 291283
> 
> 
> ...


Oh isn't he gorgeous!


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

Wow what a beautiful boy ♥


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I tried to get a pic of Biscuit doing his Ornament On The Piano pose or even on his paradise barrel but he would not look pretty in either position so I was forced to take another 'blind' pic which really is not typical of him so I shall try again later.









I did manage to get a couple of pics showing his trick of pulling himself under the stove on his belly because he cannot judge the distance at the side or jump over the top like the others do. He also does this when the stove is alight.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

A fairly miserable morning has been livened up by this pic emailed me by a friend who has two of my girls (the black, DeeDee and the Havana, Scully) with their rescued cinnamon friend, Miss Piggy.


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## Ringypie (Aug 15, 2012)

QOTN said:


> A fairly miserable morning has been livened up by this pic emailed me by a friend who has two of my girls (the black, DeeDee and the Havana, Scully) with their rescued cinnamon friend, Miss Piggy.
> View attachment 292897


Such beautiful girls! I hope tomorrow is a better day for you.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Yay I've always watched this thread and oogled the beautiful Orientals and now I can post my own bundle.

Her name is Harley named after the character Harley Quinn. After a 7 hour round trip she's home and settling in, in love already!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Hallo beautiful Harley. Your type looks very familiar. I would love to know your pedigree.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Absolutely gorgeous @BritishBilbo


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Hallo beautiful Harley. Your type looks very familiar. I would love to know your pedigree.


She is from Janet at Hemlock Siamese & Orientals. Ever since I saw 'hemlock spotty Muldoon' on the show rounds I knew I wanted my own Hemlock baby. Her mother is a Russian Import & her Dad is Hemlock Hudson Mohawk.


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> She is from Janet at Hemlock Siamese & Orientals. Ever since I saw 'hemlock spotty Muldoon' on the show rounds I knew I wanted my own Hemlock baby. Her mother is a Russian Import & her Dad is Hemlock Hudson Mohawk.
> View attachment 296586
> 
> View attachment 296589


She is absolutely beautiful


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Ali71 said:


> She is absolutely beautiful





lymorelynn said:


> Absolutely gorgeous @BritishBilbo


Thank you! She is such a little cutie, but a complete demon child!!! Wouldn't have it an other way though!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> Thank you! She is such a little cutie, but a complete demon child!!! Wouldn't have it an other way though!


I was wondering how you would cope with the contrast between British and Oriental temperament. This last pic makes her look chocolate when I thought she was brown. I suppose she may just have good background colour but that is the one thing Spotty Muldoon lacks. Have you seen his chocolate stablemate, Alfredo Ferrari?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

BritishBilbo said:


> She is from Janet at Hemlock Siamese & Orientals. Ever since I saw 'hemlock spotty Muldoon' on the show rounds I knew I wanted my own Hemlock baby. Her mother is a Russian Import & her Dad is Hemlock Hudson Mohawk.


I did wonder as it's a lovely clear pattern and Janet specialises in tabby orientals.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I was wondering how you would cope with the contrast between British and Oriental temperament. This last pic makes her look chocolate when I thought she was brown. I suppose she may just have good background colour but that is the one thing Spotty Muldoon lacks. Have you seen his chocolate stablemate, Alfredo Ferrari?


Yes I've seen Alfie doing the rounds aswell he's gorgeous too. I'm no pro with oriental colours but I've been told she's a chocolate spotted, she's a lot warmer toned than Spotty Muldoon.

So far so good with the two different breeds, the Brits take themselves off to sleep and she comes and sleeps around us. Nothing much ha rolls really changed, the boys are still young so still very playful themselves.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

This may just look like a perfectly normal pic of Blah de Blah having a cuddle but it is actually a momentous occasion. This is daytime and normally Em drives her away if she finds her on my lap so Blah has her cuddles at night when Em is asleep in the kitten room. What is more, Em and Gozee were asleep under their duvet on the sofa next to me at the same time. Blah has learnt that she must not purr so loud if she wants to remain undetected. Needless to say it was only a few brief moments but I was so pleased I had to record it.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Oh go on then have some more recent photos 






































She's being spayed today, not expecting it to effect her at all she's such a hardy little thing!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Mewzishun has another almost unbelievable anniversary today. Bear is 12 years old. The wretch has refused to pose for a pic. He said he preferred to relax on his birthday, a date he shares with QOTN who would have been 25 today and apparently also Abraham Lincoln. When asked how he felt about sharing his birthday with the famous American, he said that was no problem but he definitely did not want to share his food as well. (He even went as far as to suggest a travel ban until I told him there was nothing to fear from bones.)


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Happy birthday Bear :Cat


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

You lucky thing sharing birthday cuddles with such a handsome boy. Many happy returns, Bear x


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Happy Birthday sweet bear
@QOTN I love this thread, your cats are just so gorgeous
Thank you for sharing your pics


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Happy birthday you beautiful boy. Can I ask why the anniversary is so unbelievable QOTN? Does he gorgeous Bear have health issues?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Paddypaws said:


> Happy birthday you beautiful boy. Can I ask why the anniversary is so unbelievable QOTN? First he gorgeous Bear have health issues?


I think (hope) Bear is fine, Paddypaws, but sadly he is no longer a young cat. I just cannot believe my cats are all getting old. It seems only yesterday that I changed this 'funny coloured' lilac's registration to caramel to please a friend who was working towards championship status for that so-called colour. I found some of his show reports only this week when I was looking for something else. To me he still resembles the cat described in them. His reports were part of the championship application. To me he still is 'a very handsome cat of type and balance,' also an 'attractive cat, flashy and stylish,' and even 'a large and handsome neuter.' That is why I wanted to get a pic of him stretched out looking his best. To other people, no doubt he is just funny, noisy old R. Bear.


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

Happy belated Birthday Bear, he certainly looks very relaxed :Cat


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Ahh, 'unbelievable' as in 'where has the time gone? '
Well I think he is still a 'flashy looking, stylish' cat and 12 is barely middle aged in my books!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Paddypaws said:


> Ahh, 'unbelievable' as in 'where has the time gone? '
> Well I think he is still a 'flashy looking, stylish' cat and 12 is barely middle aged in my books!


Thank you Paddypaws but your 'books' do not include Siamese and Orientals. So many of them die at 5 or 6 with early renal failure, some lines also have early onset mediastinal lymphoma and there is also the dreaded amyloidosis in other lines. I tend to be lucky with my cats but I can never ignore the fact that Bear's sire was dead before he was 6 (he was also sire to Darkness) as was Rose's (a different stud.) Biscuit's sire died around 7 or 8.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Thank you Paddypaws but your 'books' do not include Siamese and Orientals. So many of them die at 5 or 6 with early renal failure, some lines also have early onset mediastinal lymphoma and there is also the dreaded amyloidosis in other lines. I tend to be lucky with my cats but I can never ignore the fact that Bear's sire was dead before he was 6 (he was also sire to Darkness) as was Rose's (a different stud.) Biscuit's sire died around 7 or 8.


This is why I'm delighted the next stud I will be using is 12 or 13, and the stud behind all my cats is now 15.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> This is why I'm delighted the next stud I will be using is 12 or 13, and the stud behind all my cats is now 15.


Is Niterap Chestnut Brown really 15? I find that hard to believe as well but then my Havana is many generations behind him and I have just calculated that she was born in November 1992 the same year as QOTN.

I have been visiting a friend this afternoon and we were talking about 'the old days,' the cats we knew and the shows we attended. Now we only go to shows to take the welfare stall.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

They grow up so quick, Harley is 7 months now and not far off 8. I'm totally and utterly in love with the breed she's a total joy to have in my life, even if I do think I'm going prematurely grey because of her!!


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## Citruspips (Jul 6, 2011)

Oh she looks a real character. I love pic number one what a great expression


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Oh my word she is a stunning girl, I love the sleeping pictures. What is she doing that is sending you grey, is she a handful lol?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I expect she is just being oriental but it must be a shock after British. She looks a sweetheart to me. Does she nag?


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## Temporally_Loopy (Jan 16, 2017)

Adorable, I love the sleeping photo too. Looks as though she is thinking "ahh life is good".


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

BritishBilbo said:


> They grow up so quick, Harley is 7 months now and not far off 8. I'm totally and utterly in love with the breed she's a total joy to have in my life, even if I do think I'm going prematurely grey because of her!!
> 
> View attachment 303883
> View attachment 303884
> ...


She's a beautiful girl
I also love the sleeping pic


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
I am so sorry to hear that Siamese & Orientals are no longer "long lived" as a breed, at least not in the UK. 
.
I grew up with Siamese, & our dam & daughter queens lived to be 19 & 21, respectively - & that in the 1960s / 70s, when cat medicine was a work under construction // feline vets were incredible rarities! 
their progeny were also mid- to late-teens, on average.
.
I did have a Q re the unusual color of the kitten, i think it was 3rd photo down, in comment #123 of this thread - What do U call that color / pattern?
I think the kitten is a boy - chest & chin are counter-shaded pale, tummy seems to be too, & upper body appears to be ticked, unless my eyes deceive me?...
.
re old age / lifespan in Siamese, here in the U-S there's a national breed-rescue group as well as independent state or regional Meezer rescues just for senior Siamese - & senior Siamese are referred to affectionately as "Meezers" - as opposed to "geezers" AKA old fa*ts, LOL.
.
*Siamese Rescue - Main Website*
https://www.siameserescue.org/
Siamese Rescue is a coalition of shelters located in Virginia, California and Colorado that place Siamese cat throughout the US. We are a tax exempt, non-profit ...

*Siamese Cat Rescue Center - Meezer Express*
https://va.siameserescue.org/VAexpress.php
The Meezer Rescue Express is a volunteer organization willing to transport Siamese to their new homes. Each Center works to establish an extensive network of ...
.
.
.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I expect she is just being oriental but it must be a shock after British. She looks a sweetheart to me. Does she nag?


She has her moments where she can nag, she's not too bad. When we got her she came with the warning she was a demon child from her breeder, she has lived up to her name very well. I wouldn't change her one bit though, she's perfect :Shamefullyembarrased


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

leashedForLife said:


> .I am so sorry to hear that Siamese & Orientals are no longer "long lived" as a breed, at least not in the UK.
> .I did have a Q re the unusual color of the kitten, i think it was 3rd photo down, in comment #123 of this thread - What do U call that color / pattern?
> I think the kitten is a boy - chest & chin are counter-shaded pale, tummy seems to be too, & upper body appears to be ticked, unless my eyes deceive me?...


My Siamese and Orientals are relatively long lived and so are many other lines but unfortunately the 'typy' ones tend to be descended from a small number of cats, a policy which inevitably brings a problem with any inherited disease.

The kitten you mention is my Blooligan, the blue hooligan, born 1990 in my first ever litter. He was a blue ticked tabby. All patterns of blue tabbies have beige ground colour. The colour of the pic is not good because it was scanned from an ancient snap.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
Thanks so much, QOTN - i thought the kitten was beautiful, 'quality of photo' is immaterial, gorgeous color & i love the ticked tabby. 
.
.
.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

My shy Rose is 10 years old even though she is still as skittish as a kitten. She does not like having her pic taken but she cannot resist a fuss on her post.









Until fairly recently no visitors ever saw Rose. She would hide until they had gone but now she hides behind the piano until she has checked them out (this can take from 20 minutes to 2 hours!) and then she leaps out to make a fuss of them but *no laps* under any circumstances. She loves her belly rubbed but this pic is the only way anybody but me is ever going to see that portion of her anatomy.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Rose is a very pretty girl. 

I am a little bit in love with Orientals... I'm sure one would get on with three Tonkinese...


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Psygon said:


> Rose is a very pretty girl.
> 
> I am a little bit in love with Orientals... I'm sure one would get on with three Tonkinese...


Definitely worth trying!


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

What is the most common (popular?) colour for Orientals? 

Are bi-colour orientals common?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Bi-colours are the most recent Orientals so tend to be 'in fashion.' Favourite colours and patterns seem to go in phases. A breeder keen on a particular sort may show and breed for a number of years and then another might come along and dominate for a while. At the moment it seems to be spotted tabbies but a while ago there weren't any about. There are not many silvers although there is a very nice silver ticked tabby being shown. I think torties in various colours are quite popular.

I am afraid that 'my' colours, the cinnamons and fawns, are fairly rare now which is a shame when you consider how hard some of us worked for the progression to championship status.

Which do you favour?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I have a breeder friend with a rather lovely blue spotted Ori :Cat I hadn't seen one before but she is gorgeous. I am also a fan of blacks which seem to be quite popular


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

QOTN said:


> Bi-colours are the most recent Orientals so tend to be 'in fashion.' Favourite colours and patterns seem to go in phases. A breeder keen on a particular sort may show and breed for a number of years and then another might come along and dominate for a while. At the moment it seems to be spotted tabbies but a while ago there weren't any about. There are not many silvers although there is a very nice silver ticked tabby being shown. I think torties in various colours are quite popular.
> 
> I am afraid that 'my' colours, the cinnamons and fawns, are fairly rare now which is a shame when you consider how hard some of us worked for the progression to championship status.
> 
> Which do you favour?


I'm not sure I have a specific favourite colour (yet), although I was just looking at some pictures of a very pretty blue oriental girl and a sweet looking bi-colour (B&W) boy  I actually quite like the fawn colouring too!

Not sure I've ever seen a silver one... (off to Google!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Psygon said:


> pictures of a very pretty blue oriental girl


She wasn't in Leicester was she by any chance? I was looking at one but my husband veetoed the idea :Arghh - he likes the pointed markings of Meezers


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> She wasn't in Leicester was she by any chance? I was looking at one but my husband veetoed the idea :Arghh - he likes the pointed markings of Meezers


hah! Yes, she was, she looks stunning  Quite a little poser


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

She looks adorable :Arghh:Arghh


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Who is this blue girl????

This is the silver ticked boy I mentioned.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

QOTN said:


> Who is this blue girl????
> 
> This is the silver ticked boy I mentioned.
> View attachment 306314


She was on Facebook - at least that's where I saw her last week. I know the breeder was in Braunstone, Leicester which is near my parents, but I can't remember the name or prefix - just a quick check, her prefix is Seraphis


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

This is the girl I saw: https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/1553546-ready-now-leicester.html


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

QOTN said:


> Who is this blue girl????
> 
> This is the silver ticked boy I mentioned.
> View attachment 306314


Oh, he is rather handsome. I do have a thing about tabby cats...


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Psygon said:


> This is the girl I saw: https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/1553546-ready-now-leicester.html


That's the one :Cat Now sold according to FB


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> That's the one :Cat Now sold according to FB


For me that's probably good - I've told myself I'm just finding out more about Orientals at the moment... adverts that say 'available now' should probably be being skipped past (rather than being looked at several times) 

Leicester is also quite far from me... if she'd have been closer...


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Psygon said:


> For me that's probably good - I've told myself I'm just finding out more about Orientals at the moment... adverts that say 'available now' should probably be being skipped past (rather than being looked at several times)
> 
> Leicester is also quite far from me... if she'd have been closer...


A long way from me too but so near to my mum and dad  I was thinking I could have popped up to see them at the same time  Never mind - more Meezer babies due here so I'll have plenty to keep me busy


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> A long way from me too but so near to my mum and dad  I was thinking I could have popped up to see them at the same time  Never mind - more Meezer babies due here so I'll have plenty to keep me busy


Too funny. Leicester is close to my sister... I was telling myself I could just pop and see her..


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I've just been through this whole thread looking at all the gorgeous photos again. I must admit if I didn't have a life long love of moggies, I would definitely be tempted with an Oriental, they are all stunning.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> <snip>
> I am afraid that 'my' colours, the cinnamons and fawns, are fairly rare now which is a shame when you consider how hard some of us worked for the progression to championship status.
> <snip>


Eadlin has usually been the only fawn at a show, and the only time there was another one it was her half-sister I was showing in the kitten class. Both are the most gorgeous colours, especially fawn, and green eyes are a stunning combination. I've seen a cinnamon BSH, the orange eyes vanished into the coat colour, they work better with the fawn BSH. I'd love to see a fawn Persian though I know that's not going to happen. There is work in progress on cinnamon & fawn in Asians, and so cinnamon & fawn Burmese look-alikes (self with Burmese colour restriction) might come along.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

I thought you could already get a cinnamon burmese? Or is it not a colour in the UK?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Psygon said:


> I thought you could already get a cinnamon burmese? Or is it not a colour in the UK?


No cinnamon and no tabbies in GCCF Burmese. I am not familiar with other registration policies.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Oh seems that Cinnamon (and fawn) is a colour in New Zealand (according to Wikipedia)

This is a pic I found. A lot paler than the oriental cinnamon's - reminds me more of a chocolate Burmese.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Psygon said:


> Oh seems that Cinnamon (and fawn) is a colour in New Zealand (according to Wikipedia)
> This is a pic I found. A lot paler than the oriental cinnamon's - reminds me more of a chocolate Burmese.


Cinnamon Burmese would inevitably be paler than the self coloured Orientals in the same way as brown Burmese are not black even though they have a black gene. The Burmese colour restriction gene is intermediate between full colour (as in Orientals) and Siamese which has colour restriction to the points. A Tonkinese has one Burmese gene and one Siamese gene and is another intermediate pattern since the Burmese gene is incompletely dominant to the Siamese gene. (There are Burmese Tonkinese and Siamese Tonkinese now but when they were first developed they were considered variants.)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Psygon said:


> I thought you could already get a cinnamon burmese? Or is it not a colour in the UK?


It will come along, but called a Cinnamon Asian with Burmese Colour Restriction.  Work is in progress on cinnamon & fawn Asians in various patterns.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Quote, QOTN:

Cinnamon Burmese would inevitably be paler than the self coloured Orientals in the same way as brown Burmese are not black even though they have a black gene. The Burmese colour restriction gene is intermediate between full colour (as in Orientals) and Siamese which has colour restriction to the points.

*A Tonkinese has one Burmese gene and one Siamese gene & is another intermediate pattern, since the Burmese gene is incompletely dominant to the Siamese gene. 
There are Burmese Tonkinese and Siamese Tonkinese now, but when they were first developed, they were considered variants.*

/QUOTE
==================================

QUOTE, OrientalSlave:

It will come along, but called *a Cinnamon Asian with Burmese Colour Restriction.*  Work is in progress on cinnamon & fawn Asians in various patterns.

/QUOTE
.
.
i feel a strange pressure behind my eyes - either it's a headache coming on, or my brain is about to explode.  Maybe both . 
Lord help us, color names & variants in cats are as convoluted as the various strains, colors, foliage-types, flower forms, etc, in certain plants, LOL - such as orchid hybrids, bearded iris, begonias, African violets, & dahlias!

.
.
.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> I'd love to see a fawn Persian though I know that's not going to happen.


Never say never, someone somewhere probably feels the same and may very well try it. 
I have seen photos of cinnamon and fawn Birmans and there are a number of breeders around the world, the cinnamons in particular are really very beautiful.


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## Matrod (Dec 22, 2014)

QOTN said:


> My shy Rose is 10 years old even though she is still as skittish as a kitten. She does not like having her pic taken but she cannot resist a fuss on her post.
> View attachment 305906
> 
> 
> ...


I keep meaning that to say that Rose is just stunning


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

i feel a strange pressure behind my eyes - either it's a headache coming on, or my brain is about to explode.  Maybe both . 
Lord help us, color names & variants in cats are as convoluted as the various strains, colors, foliage-types, flower forms, etc, in certain plants, LOL - such as orchid hybrids, bearded iris, begonias, African violets, & dahlias!
.[/QUOTE]

What did we say to cause this????? At least cat colour genetics is not like rose genetics with tetraploids and other stray genes buzzing about with no partners.


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

Quote, QOTN

What did we say to cause this?????

/Quote
==================
.
.
well, the incomplete dominance bit started it, just mild pressure, but then came the 'variants' - which sound like hybrids, sorta  tho i'm *sure *that they are not, nor is that any kind of dismissive remark!, it's just the sound of *Burmese Tonkinese *and* Siamese Tonkinese*, rather like Aussie x BC or Border-Jack ---- 
but the straw that broke this camel's back was the proposed name of the cinnamon color in Orientals.  ... 
.
ya gotta admit, *Cinnamon Asian with Burmese Colour Restriction *is one heckuva tag to put on a cat who probly won't weigh 4-kg in their entire lives.
:Hilarious
.
.
______________________________________

Quote, QOTN

...At least cat colour genetics is not like rose genetics, with tetraploids and other stray genes buzzing about with no partners.

/QUOTE
.
.
I'm sure it could be worse! - please don't make any suggestions to the Powers that Be, cats & their colors are lovely as they are. 
It's only the nomenclature which is somewhat boggling, reminding me of _"cut-leaf variegated foliage with artist's shades blooms"_, or whatnot.
Pay me no mind - it's a momentary overdose, i'll be fine when i finish my coffee, i'm sure. 
.
.
.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

well, the *incomplete dominance bit started it, just mild pressure, but then came the 'variants' - which sound like hybrids*, sorta  tho i'm *sure *that they are not, nor is that any kind of dismissive remark!, it's just the sound of *Burmese Tonkinese *and* Siamese Tonkinese*, rather like Aussie x BC or Border-Jack ---- 
but the straw that broke this camel's back was the proposed name of the cinnamon color in Orientals.  ... 
.
ya gotta admit, *Cinnamon Asian with Burmese Colour Restriction *is one heckuva tag to put on a cat who probly won't weigh 4-kg in their entire lives.
:HilariousI'm sure it could be worse! - please don't make any suggestions to the Powers that Be, cats & their colors are lovely as they are. 
It's only the nomenclature which is somewhat boggling, reminding me of _"cut-leaf variegated foliage with artist's shades blooms"_, or whatnot.
Pay me no mind - it's a momentary overdose, i'll be fine when i finish my coffee, i'm sure. [/QUOTE]

You are lucky this is an Oriental thread so it is possible Tonkinese owners will not see it. If you do not take incomplete dominance and variants (hybrids) seriously, you are condemning their breed since that is exactly what a Tonkinese is, a hybrid between a Burmese and a Siamese but, because the Burmese gene is incompletely dominant to the Siamese gene, the resulting cat does not look exactly like a Burmese.

There are already other coloured Asians with Burmese colour restriction and I am sure their breeders call them something else catchy and memorable so when the cinnamon colour is added, perhaps they may sound more acceptable to you.

Edit to add I have used the word 'hybrid' loosely because I am sure somebody will tell me that Burmese and Siamese are the same species unlike the first Bengals which were hybrids.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

leashedForLife said:


> well, the incomplete dominance bit started it, just mild pressure, but then came the 'variants' - which sound like hybrids, sorta  tho i'm *sure *that they are not, nor is that any kind of dismissive remark!, it's just the sound of *Burmese Tonkinese *and* Siamese Tonkinese*, rather like Aussie x BC or Border-Jack ----
> but the straw that broke this camel's back was the proposed name of the cinnamon color in Orientals.  ...
> .
> ya gotta admit, *Cinnamon Asian with Burmese Colour Restriction *is one heckuva tag to put on a cat who probly won't weigh 4-kg in their entire lives.


Google will find you lots of information on incomplete dominance, but basically it means the result of a cat with a gene for Burmese colour restriction and one for Siamese colour restriction is an in-between colour, neither Burmese nor Siamese colour restriction. Remember a Brown Burmese is actually a black cat, as is a Seal-point Siamese (or any other seal-point cat). The in-between colour is Tonkinese, and the Tonks originated in crossing Burmese and Siamese. Unfortunately there are a multitude of words for the same colouring in different breeds including mink, sepia, and darker points. I have no idea which is which with these, however thankfully the GEMS codes make it obvious what the cat actually is.

Asians are another breed resulting from a cross, this time between a Burmese and a Chinchilla Persian. They are now exactly the same shape as a Burmese and come in just about any colour & pattern you care to name except Siamese colour restriction, and with white. You could have a Cinnamon Asian which the aficionados of the breed would call 'full colour expression', and one with Burmese Colour Restriction. Asians also come along in Burmese colour, sadly those can't be shown so are described in GCCF as 'variants'. A long-hair offspring of British Shorthair cats also used to be a variant, but these are now very slowly arriving as a breed in their own right.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

PS Burmese are much heavier cats than they look. A well-grown male may well be over 5kg, especially if neutered before puberty.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

PPS More about Asians here: http://www.gccfcats.org/Cat-Breeds/Asian

And sorry for the excursion into Burmese & Asians!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> PS Burmese are much heavier cats than they look. A well-grown male may well be over 5kg, especially if neutered before puberty.


Getting back to Orientals, my Bear, Biscuit and Gozee are all around 5.5kgs! Gozee is very overweight but the boys are not.

Until the Burmese and Siamese colour restriction cats were recognised for championship status, there was no need to publicise them but inevitably they have been around since the beginnings of the breed. Somebody who had a chocolate spotty from me in 1992 bred Tonks from Siamese and Burmese and they were shown in the early stages of the progression of the breed in this country.


----------



## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Until the Burmese and Siamese colour restriction cats...


Tonkinese cats of course.


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Tonkinese cats of course.


Of course, but they could not be called simply Burmese or Siamese as are their ancestors because they look different. Similarly the other breeds that have followed suit.

An Australian Mist is a Burmese restriction tabby cat.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Really fascinating reading all of this  (despite the foray away from the original Orientals topic). 

Think I've convinced my OH we should go to a show soon and have a proper look at some Ori's  We've looked at them a couple of times at shows last year, but never with any intent...


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Harley's first show yesterday at the Midlands Counties Cat Club, she was still in the kitten classes (just)!








Patiently waiting for judging to start!








What you looking at ?!








Clever girl must of charmed the judges as she was picked for Best Overall Oriental Kitten and Best Overall Oriental and was in the Best in Show!








My pretty rosette!








Sniff sniff








Rubbish pics as they're from a Facebook live stream but here she is being judged in BIS








Judging again








At home with her pretty rosettes!

I am totally gobsmacked by this achievement I honestly would of just been happy to come out of the show knowing Harley didn't stress at the showing environment. To be picked for the best in show line up was a complete honour!! A beautiful 8 month old Sphynx won best in show, they were GORGEOUS!!!!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Well done Spotty Girl. Hope to see you at a show sometime.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Congratulations :Cat:Cat


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

She is completely gorgeous and you must be thrilled, well done Harley x


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## Kitkatslave (Apr 7, 2017)

BritishBilbo said:


> Harley's first show yesterday at the Midlands Counties Cat Club, she was still in the kitten classes (just)!
> View attachment 309933
> 
> Patiently waiting for judging to start!
> ...


Love this! Harley looks right at home and very proud of herself! Plus that's the best ear to face ratio I've ever seen! :Cat:Cat


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Congratulations to Oriental Slave's Basil. Ist and BOB at his first show. Any chance of a pic @OrientalSlave ?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Congratulations to Oriental Slave's Basil. Ist and BOB at his first show. Any chance of a pic @OrientalSlave ?


Only just downloaded the camera! This was taken in the afternoon, he took the show in his stride.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Wow stunning!


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Well done to all, they are both gorgeous.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Only just downloaded the camera! This was taken in the afternoon, *he took the show in his stride*.
> 
> View attachment 310842


He looks so grown up! I feel jealous.

Perhaps he has inherited his great grandsire's laid back temperament?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> He looks so grown up! I feel jealous.


He's far from grown up, has no idea he's a boy at present. None whatsoever, just enjoyed the girls fussing him when they were in call last week.  Now Eadlin is back to growling at him, poor lad, and she was more mothering him than flirting.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> He's far from grown up, has no idea he's a boy at present. None whatsoever, just enjoyed the girls fussing him when they were in call last week.  Now Eadlin is back to growling at him, poor lad, and she was more mothering him than flirting.


I thought Gam would take after his dad who had no idea until he was 18 months old and was taken hostage by a visiting queen who refused to leave him alone. On that occasion he performed out of desperation but after that there was no stopping him. How wrong I was. Gam got his mum when he was only 9 months.

Enjoy Basil's kittenhood. (I was thinking more of his stately appearance than his sex appeal when I said he looked grown up!)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> I thought Gam would take after his dad who had no idea until he was 18 months old and was taken hostage by a visiting queen who refused to leave him alone. On that occasion he performed out of desperation but after that there was no stopping him. How wrong I was. Gam got his mum when he was only 9 months.
> 
> Enjoy Basil's kittenhood. (I was thinking more of his stately appearance than his sex appeal when I said he looked grown up!)


I am, it's very precious.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Abs had the sense to lie on the cool floorboards on the landing this morning before the rain arrived but Blah de Blah sprawled in a fluffy bed with the sun on her back.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

I met a fawn oriental today, I'm wondering if it was @OrientalSlave's basil. They looked very very similar. Was he on exhibition today?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Did you go to South Shields? Cats on exhibition usually have their name on the pen and often a pedigree as well.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@QOTN - I envy you your rain! We could do with some where I am !


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

chillminx said:


> @QOTN - I envy you your rain! We could do with some where I am !


It was fairly disappointing I am afraid. I haven't even bothered to check the water butt but it does seem cooler tonight.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

QOTN said:


> Did you go to South Shields? Cats on exhibition usually have their name on the pen and often a pedigree as well.


Yes, was in South Shields today. And in all honesty, I can't remember if the name was on the pen or not... there were four cats on exhibition and we were looking at the Chartreux and the Egyptian Mau who were on exhibition when the Oriental had a brief chat with us  Gorgeous cat!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Psygon said:


> Yes, was in South Shields today. And in all honesty, I can't remember if the name was on the pen or not... there were four cats on exhibition and we were looking at the Chartreux and the Egyptian Mau who were on exhibition when the Oriental had a brief chat with us  Gorgeous cat!


Thanks, that was indeed Basil. He had a great time and slept all the way home!


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

He did seem to have a lot of admirers when we were there!  Seemed really laid back and to be enjoying the experience 

We were comparing his size to CK - he looked almost the same size as him (and CK is 20 months old!)


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Mamma's lil chubby pudding!









Absolutely disgusted that I'm fussing her brother and not her! 








Compromising ..!

Some latest pics of the Madam! Also goes by the name of chubs, ratty and rat bag!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Psygon said:


> I met a fawn oriental today[/B], I'm wondering if it was @OrientalSlave's basil. They looked very very similar. Was he on exhibition today?


We all know it was Basil on exhibition and you identified him as a fawn so I wonder how an esteemed Scottish judge thought he was a dark cinnamon!!!!!!!!! @OrientalSlave are you going to mention Basil's colour to BB?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I am, you notice the breed number is correct in the report?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

The report still says cinnamon! However here are my transcripts of the written reports the judges gave to me, and the photos someone took of him.

*Janet Starr:*
Well-grown young fawn male of very good type.
Even wedge head with almost straight profile, firm chin.
Eyes of super green (rare virtue!) correctly shaped and wet.
Large ears open at the base, just far enough apart.
Long neck, long firm body, legs & tail.
Close coat, excellent texture, warm rosy mushroom as per the SOP.
100% Temperament & condition - easy to handle and lots of purr!

*Bruce Bennett:*
Lovely lad. Very good type and development for his youthful age.
Very good even edge head with large ears set very well. Wonderful duck egg green shade to his eyes.
Profile nearly straight, chin aligned, bite level.
Balanced body (large lunch) limbs and tail.
Super close sleek coat. In this hall light the mushroom looks slightly bluish rather than rosy. Beautifully even shade across entire body.

The photos were taken by Sazzy Lee.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Psygon said:


> He did seem to have a lot of admirers when we were there!  Seemed really laid back and to be enjoying the experience
> 
> We were comparing his size to CK - he looked almost the same size as him (and CK is 20 months old!)


Thanks, I kept an eye on him while I was stewarding and he did indeed enjoy himself. He's coming up to 3 1/3 kg at 7 months old, and his paws are a bit outsize still so lots more growing to do I hope.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Is anybody going to the oca/sca show next weekend ?


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> Thanks, I kept an eye on him while I was stewarding and he did indeed enjoy himself. He's coming up to 3 1/3 kg at 7 months old, and his paws are a bit outsize still so lots more growing to do I hope.


CK is only a little bit heavier (3.3kg). He's such a teeny Tonkinese!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> Is anybody going to the oca/sca show next weekend ?


Not me I am afraid, too far, but it always used to be a really good show. I am taking our club stall to Eastern Counties on 8th July. Our own show is on 19th August at Melbourn Cambridgeshire. Is that too far south for you?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

BritishBilbo said:


> Is anybody going to the oca/sca show next weekend ?


Unfortunately it's over 6 hours each way for me.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> Unfortunately it's over 6 hours each way for me.


Oh my yes that's a bit far it's an hour each way for me!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Not me I am afraid, too far, but it always used to be a really good show. I am taking our club stall to Eastern Counties on 8th July. Our own show is on 19th August at Melbourn Cambridgeshire. Is that too far south for you?


I can't get out of work in August it's way to busy at the Cattery with the school holidays unfortunately! Ive heard good things about the show looking forward too it!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

The OCA/sca show today was really nice, the hall was kept cool and the show wasn't over crowded. I didn't get many photos of the show itself really just some of Harley 









There's a cat in there somewhere ..








Let me out ..








Couldn't resist this catnip heart ..








Best Oriental Neuter in the OCA show








Clever girly with her prizes she got both of her first two PC's, two 1sts, 1 BOB, three 1st places and one 2nd in the side classes along with the best neuter in show. 
Super proud!


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Well done @BritishBilbo


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Well done Harley. Which cheeky judge dared to give you a 2nd? (Initials will do!)


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Well done Harley. Which cheeky judge dared to give you a 2nd? (Initials will do!)


In the side class ? I wouldn't like to say until I've looked back at my catalogue later!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

What great results - well done @BritishBilbo and the gorgeous Harley


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

June is birthday month for some of my girls. Darkness is 10 and showing the meaning of long in the tooth!









The three 'gingers,' sorry cinnamons are 7, Dozee Gozee








Em is getting worse at posing for pics








and unfortunately Bess now refuses so an older pic of her


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Wib is 9 today and this pic shows her and Biscuit (dad) resting after slaughtering a catnip sack








and by herself


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I had some pics of her brothers sent to me today so I looked out some baby pics of them all, my only completely fawn litter. I am afraid I can only identify the 'mese. It was hard to tell the others apart even when they were running around.


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Gingers are too hot so I managed to get some slightly better pics.
















Wib held Bess down for me.









Thank you Wib.


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

These lovely boys are 2 of Wib's brothers, Saxo (Saxofawn) and Urchin (Fawn Karajan) all grown up. Saxo was one of the fawn point IC qualifiers and Urchin went to shows to keep him company and made Premier. Their owner has just emailed me to say she cannot pick Urchin out from the pics of the whole litter. Neither can I but I wonder if any of you can.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

QOTN said:


> Well done Harley. Which cheeky judge dared to give you a 2nd? (Initials will do!)


I see it was BB. I shall be interested to see how his report differs from those of Harley's other judges.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I see it was BB. I shall be interested to see how his report differs from those of Harley's other judges. .


He judged her in a side and his report for her side class is out now, I don't really take notice of side classes they don't bother me. I'm interested to see why the male spotty was w/h by D Brown and not by the other show judge.. Her report for anyone interested lol.









Looking interested ..


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> He judged her in a side and his report for her side class is out now, I don't really take notice of side classes they don't bother me. I'm interested to see why the male spotty was w/h by D Brown and not by the other show judge.. Her report for anyone interested lol.
> View attachment 316006
> 
> 
> ...


It stopped her having a red card day! Anyway, side classes can be very useful indeed. If you find a judge is not very keen on your cat when you put it under them in a side class, probably not a good idea to try them for a certificate. In this case I don't think BB hated her although he was not totally impressed with her head type so safe to put her under him for a certificate in future. None of the other reports are out yet so we shall have to wait to see how his compares with the others.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I see the spotty boy's other judge was Susan Luxford-Watts, not a lenient judge by any means so it will be interesting to see the reason he was withheld.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> It stopped her having a red card day! Anyway, side classes can be very useful indeed. If you find a judge is not very keen on your cat when you put it under them in a side class, probably not a good idea to try them for a certificate. In this case I don't think BB hated her although he was not totally impressed with her head type so safe to put her under him for a certificate in future. None of the other reports are out yet so we shall have to wait to see how his compares with the others.


Yeah I don't take it all too seriously I don't go for winning I go because I absolutely love shows. It's been amazing luck to be in two best in show line ups but I wouldn't be disheartened if she was never picked again. I love to show my beautiful babe and the public always love her. She was one of if not the most popular for 'visitors choice' a new thing they started at the OCA show. That's more of an honour than the rosettes etc to know that the public loved her as much as I do!
Saying that will anyone be going to the supreme ?


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## ConnortheBurmese (Jun 26, 2017)

QOTN said:


> I have been asked to post more pics of my cats so I thought it might be a good idea to show people what lovely cats Orientals are with so many different colours and patterns.
> First here is a pic of my old lady Abs just before her 17th birthday. She is Havana, a chocolate colour.
> View attachment 268596


She is beautiful!!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Happy 1st Birthday to my little spotted demon! Do hope to see some oriental fans at the Supreme this year


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Happy Birthday Harley. One year old today. Your Open report for OCA was only published yesterday.*
Oriental Spotted Tabby Neuter, Female;

1st & PC GRICE'S HEMLOCK HARLEY QUINN. OSH b. *12-08-16. Chocolate, Perfect bite this young

miss has, very good top of head, well marked brow, eyes appear a little paler & little more olive

tone, Large wide based, well set ears. Lithe body tapering tail of good length. Warm colour overall.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Just in case you did not see the Open reports from the SCA. Pattern faults caused the boy to be w/held.
*
Oriental Spotted Tabby Neuter Male

1st PC w/h - Midson's PIPPASTRO STORM-TROOPER (OSH n 24) 02/06/15. *This

neuter lad is a lovely size and his type is very good but unfortunately his pattern faults

precluded the awarding of certificate today. Strong well balanced head with very good top line

and large ears very well set. Strong almost straight profile with broad nose, good chin and

level bite. Oriental eye shape and set with paler green colour. Long comfortably covered and

weighty body, but still fairly elegant, long legs and long tail to balance. Spotted pattern on

warmish ground is reasonably sound, but shows a good deal of linkage, particularly the spine

line where it is mainly solid, and there is considerable agouti invasion throughout which blurs

the pattern generally, although it does go down to the roots. Coat length and texture excellent

- almost pelt like with its closeness. A shy and gentle boy but easy to handle, a pity about the

pattern problems. Excellently presented.

*Oriental Spotted Tabby Neuter Female

PC & BOB - Grice's HEMLOCK HARLEY QUINN (OSH b 24) FN 12/08/16. *A well

developed girl for 9 months and very good for type and style. Strong wedge for a female,

excellent broad top line and large wide based ears set well. Profile rather uneven with a dip to

nose and a bump to the tip of it that accentuates that dip, chin firm and bite level. Basic eye

shape correct but with a tendency to hold wide at times, colour a very nice shade of mid green.

Firm toned body of good length, long legs and neat oval paws, tail long and whippy. Gorgeous

rich warm chocolate colouring to her well defined neat round spots and she has a really warm

ground colour- she almost glows, the pattern is very marginally paler at the roots, but is nice

and distinct with minimal agouti invasion. Wonderful coat texture, beautifully sleek and close,

gleaming with condition. Super temperament, very easy to handle. Congratulations on the Best

Female and Overall Best Neuter win in the other show.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Just in case you did not see the Open reports from the SCA. Pattern faults caused the boy to be w/held.
> *
> Oriental Spotted Tabby Neuter Male
> 
> ...


Ah yes I have seen them all i check the report page every night and read all the new reports. I'm happy with her reports there's also one from J Jones and B Bennett for her side classes. 
Looking forward to our next show


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Sorry to keep reviving this thread but I don't want to start a thread just for show results for Harley rather post them here for the oriental folke to see if anyone is interested ?!
She had a red card day today. Best of breed, 1st breed class, 1st in her two sides, gained her third Premier Certificate now making her Premier Hemlock Harley Quinn (subject to gccf confirmation). Just in time for the supreme & she got BOV Neutered Oriental ❤






















We stopped in a hotel the night before which Harley was completely unphased by she really is a confident little madam.. this is where I found her this morning


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Well done, Harley. You should really have done it at the last show according to one of the judges who saw both spotties last time you were out. A pity he was not judging the open then. Please keep posting on this thread. It is for everything oriental catty! Fingers crossed I shall have some news here next weekend (not a show of course.)

(By the way, you should not really mention the Supreme when we know Harley's name.)


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Harley is absolutely stunning! Wow, no wonder she is winning first of everything & best of breeds 

What a stunner!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I have just checked and see the aforementioned judge made her up today. (Presumably he was actually there?)


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Well done, Harley. You should really have done it at the last show according to one of the judges who saw both spotties last time you were out. A pity he was not judging the open then. Please keep posting on this thread. It is for everything oriental catty! Fingers crossed I shall have some news here next weekend (not a show of course.)
> 
> (By the way, you should not really mention the Supreme when we know Harley's name.)


I had another judge at the last show say in ear shot of me that she should of won but the girl who did was just as gorgeous they both had their pros and cons it was a hard call. It just gave me an excuse to go too another show


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I asked Harry about Harley at the last show because I wondered if her spots had 'fallen off' as can sometimes happen as they get older but apparently her pattern was better than her competitor's and this should really have been the deciding factor.

At our show Hemlock Smooth Operator was Best Oriental. Another lovely boy out of Muldoon.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Oops. I have just seen that Smooth Operator had the Imperial w/h today and several others didn't get their certificates.


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I asked Harry about Harley at the last show because I wondered if her spots had 'fallen off' as can sometimes happen as they get older but apparently her pattern was better than her competitor's and this should really have been the deciding factor.
> 
> At our show Hemlock Smooth Operator was Best Oriental. Another lovely boy out of Muldoon.


Ahh smooch is lovely was nice to meet him today, I'm friends with someone who owns his biological brother. Muldoon is by far my favourite ever oriental he is stunning, I wouldn't have Harley if it wasn't for him. 
When I spoke to the winning cats owner at the show she said her pattern wasn't great but her eyes and Muldoon look were very striking against her coat. If I was going to come second to a cat I'm glad it was a spotty Muldoon daughter lol!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Photos from the Wyvern at the start of the month ❤


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## ribbon (Apr 16, 2012)

@QOTN I've only just seen this thread, I've been missing out but your cats are just amazingly gorgeous. I think the cinnamon is my most favourite! I do often toy with the idea of one day having a full oriental myself....I can dream!


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2017)

I am totally in love with all these cats


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

More photos from yesterday off my camera..









Harley








Moody Harley (she wasn't impressed with the entire male Siamese next door).








GR CH Smooth Operator








The unstoppable Athelstan Sauvage







Athelstan Sauvage







Di probably thinking err look at this profile on Harley hehe!


----------



## Guest (Oct 1, 2017)

This is such a beautiful photo (of a beautiful cat!)


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Very few cats are without a dip. (My Wib is one. Shame about her ears!) As long as there is no skull depression most judges are fairly relaxed about profiles. Di was probably trying to check her bite and chin but Harley was shouting.


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Very few cats are without a dip. (My Wib is one. Shame about her ears!) As long as there is no skull depression most judges are fairly relaxed about profiles. Di was probably trying to check her bite and chin but Harley was shouting.


yes I must say i don't see many ultra straight profiles around nowadays, harleys dip looks worse as the tip of her nose bumps up so it makes it look bigger than it is. She was a bit miffed yesterday (Harley not Di!), Harley and the other neuter were just dotted in between the adult Siamese and Harley really did not like the big boy next to her, he loved Harley but she was having none of his charm.


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Oh Harley .. she is feeling quite miffed. I noticed she had a very mild spot of feline acne almost unnoticeable to the eye it's only cause I've worked at a vets and with cats I spotted it. Off we went to the vets and we got some special antiseptic wipes which we can use over the area to help clean it up. I also noticed a couple of grazes under her chin but she plays rough with her brothers so thought nothing more to it and the vet wasn't concerned. Overnight however she had clearly continually itched these grazes and made her neck super sore! Back off to the vets and we now have a lovely bald neck patch and it's revealed two Scratches going down her neck. We've got some cream now to help heal and to dull the itching but I've had to make her a slipper sock snood to stop her from making it worse. Poor Harley, poor mums bank account and poor cut up slipper sock.









Before the ordeal








My poorly neck








Back to the vets ..








Give me those keys I'll drive myself home!!








Can anyone feel a breeze ?!








Make shift snood I'm not impressed by it but I'm still up to mischief with it on!

Fingers and paws crossed the wound shall heal quickly!


----------



## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Poor Harley  Hope it clears up quickly


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

lymorelynn said:


> Poor Harley  Hope it clears up quickly


Thanks Lynn me too this is all so poorly timed with my fav show looming around the corner but stuff happens!


----------



## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Aww poor Harley, hope it clears up quickly & she doesn't bother it now she's got your slipper sock on.
She's such a pretty girl xx


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

I'm not coming out I look stupid !!








Leave me alone!!








Ok I'll come out for one thing








Cuddles!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Poor girl. The scratches will soon heal but I am afraid that it is going to take a while for fur to grow back.


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Poor girl. The scratches will soon heal but I am afraid that it is going to take a while for fur to grow back.


That's ok the fur is no concern as long as the scratches heal well


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> That's ok the fur is no concern as long as the scratches heal well


I agree but I was thinking of your 'Grand' plans!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I agree but I was thinking of your 'Grand' plans!


Haha oh Harley isn't the grand plan it's my pen I've spent ages sewing by hand I'm so keen to show lol!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> Haha oh Harley isn't the grand plan it's my pen I've spent ages sewing by hand I'm so keen to show lol!


When people have an absentee, they often put a photo or stuffed toy or similar in the pen. You could have pics of Hartley's shows so far.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

BritishBilbo said:


> Photos from the Wyvern at the start of the month ❤


I've fixed the colour as best I can in this one. I couldn't improve the very blue one enough to upload it again.


----------



## Animalfan (Oct 1, 2017)

OrientalSlave said:


> All Orientals except the Foreign White should have green eyes. The FW is really a Siamese painted white and as such has blue eyes.


Just wondering......as i know very little about orientals, does the foreign white have any issues with deafness with the whole white fur blue eyes combo???


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Animalfan said:


> Just wondering......as i know very little about orientals, does the foreign white have any issues with deafness with the whole white fur blue eyes combo???


The FW breeders claim it doesn't, but the since early 2016 the GCCF now require a BAER test from any white cat going to be registered active which caused a lot of gnashing of teeth. More in the Council Minutes for Feb 2016:

https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/Council.24Feb16.pdf

Look towards the bottom of page 3, item C2094.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> I've fixed the colour as best I can in this one. I couldn't improve the very blue one enough to upload it again.
> 
> View attachment 328025


Aww thank you I do like that photo of her ❤


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

My frail yet indomitable Abs (Mewzishun Party Piece) is 19 years old today. When I look at the first pic in this thread and then the one below just taken I can see how much she has aged in the last 2+ years but she still is nowhere near as grey as I am! She still rules the roost.

As far as I know she is the oldest Mewzishun ever, including cats neutered as soon as possible and yet she reared over 20 kittens. I know I have to work hard to keep her alive with constant medication but she tolerates it very well and I shall continue as long as she is happy.

She still loves her kitten box after all these years especially now the heated pad is switched on again.
I cannot say Many Happy Returns because that is highly unlikely but Happy Birthday Abs. We shall celebrate with salmon for tea tonight (usually reserved for Christmas Day.)


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

@BritishBilbo Two questions, one concerned and one a bit nosey! Is Harley's neck healing well and are you going to put her on a diet?


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

QOTN said:


> My frail yet indomitable Abs (Mewzishun Party Piece) is 19 years old today. When I look at the first pic in this thread and then the one below just taken I can see how much she has aged in the last 2+ years but she still is nowhere near as grey as I am! She still rules the roost.
> 
> As far as I know she is the oldest Mewzishun ever, including cats neutered as soon as possible and yet she reared over 20 kittens. I know I have to work hard to keep her alive with constant medication but she tolerates it very well and I shall continue as long as she is happy.
> 
> ...


I missed this, what a grand old lady, she is still beautiful x


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> @BritishBilbo Two questions, one concerned and one a bit nosey! Is Harley's neck healing well and are you going to put her on a diet?


It's getting there now she's on antibiotics to help it and it's all looking good just at that scabby stage where it has to look worse for it to get better. I have no plans to put her on a diet, Django maybe as he's gained over half a kilo in a couple of months lol.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Her neck is in a much better state now. Some people have pointed out to me that the vets didn't do a neat job of shaving her... as if that matters to me I just want her healed and well ❤


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> It's getting there now she's on antibiotics to help it and it's all looking good just at that scabby stage where it has to look worse for it to get better. I have no plans to put her on a diet, Django maybe as he's gained over half a kilo in a couple of months lol.


I am so glad she is getting better because if these things drag on they can turn really nasty. Please don't be offended about the diet question. I have never met Harley but I heard yesterday that her only slight faults are the famous DIP and a slightly large belly although I think he mentioned weight rather than the belly in particular!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I am so glad she is getting better because if these things drag on they can turn really nasty. Please don't be offended about the diet question. I have never met Harley but I heard yesterday that her only slight faults are the famous DIP and a slightly large belly although I think he mentioned weight rather than the belly in particular!


 She's had a fatty dangly belly since she was a baby she's stuck with that now forever I love it we look like twins with our rolls! She's a 'weighty' girl as Di once said, she's surprisingly heavy. The judges should be thanking me for helping them do their weight lift training sessions when lifting her . I was really down about the whole neck situation and potentially not being able to take her but today I'm feeling much better. It looks good, clean and the vet was really happy with it. She's also not scratching it persistsntly so she can have the neck garment off most the time so she's much happier. I also spoke to the chief veterinary officer for the gccf and she said she's more than happy for Harley to come to the supreme with a shaved neck as long as there's no wounds or scabs so fingers crossed it's all healed by then :Nailbiting


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Great day at the supreme today loved every minute, sad to see so little entries really more so in the Siamese section where numbers were really low.
Harley got her first Grand Premier certificate and got BOB so I'm a happy mum. That's us done now till sometime next year


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Congratulations @BritishBilbo and the lovely Harley :Cat


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

lymorelynn said:


> Congratulations @BritishBilbo and the lovely Harley :Cat


Thank you! ♥


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## ribbon (Apr 16, 2012)

Congratulations @BritishBilbo . Harley is stunning, I'm not surprised she got BOB!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Well done, Harley. You really are a LOVELY spotty girl. @BritishBilbo It looks as though her bare area is already growing back well and I am glad Di was prepared to overlook it. Did she mention it at all?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I have just seen that a spotty went Supreme Adult. It's almost like 'the old days' when spotties used to win lots.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Well done, Harley. You really are a LOVELY spotty girl. @BritishBilbo It looks as though her bare area is already growing back well and I am glad Di was prepared to overlook it. Did she mention it at all?


Nope it wasn't mentioned at all, not that I heard anyway tbh Di was talking so quietly. Even at vetting in I mentioned it and they looked at me as if to say .. so? And let her straight through lol! Lynne didn't mention it either at BOV judging so I think we got away with it this time!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I have just seen that a spotty went Supreme Adult. It's almost like 'the old days' when spotties used to win lots.


I thought he could of gone all the way and won it just pipped to the post by the most immaculately groomed Persian on the planet!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Love this photo of Harley she was really unimpressed this was late in the day and was quite happily snoozing on my lap!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

I'm just going to leave these here LOL


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

QOTN said:


> The Oriental colours that have been my obsession for the last 25+ years are cinnamon and fawn.
> First here is a pic of a cinnamon, my Bess as a kitten
> View attachment 268597
> View attachment 268598
> ...


They are all beautiful, but I'm especially in love with Wibbi, what a stunning colour. We were thinking about getting an oriental about a month back, as we researched the breed and fell in love. We were going to contact someone in Scotland but it was all put on hold as we thought we were taking in a wee black moggie, but we managed to get the wee fella a forever home. So we are back to seriously considering an Oriental. It's just we want to do it right and get from a reputable breeder in Scotland.


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

Karic said:


> I don't know what Daisi Mai was - certainly not spotted!


One word - Stunning.


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

QOTN said:


> Perhaps my Darkness will bring you good luck in finding it.
> View attachment 268654


Black and an Oriental... absolutely breathtaking. Your black boy is beautiful. Black cats are my favourite. There's something very alluring about them.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Eilidh said:


> Black and an Oriental... absolutely breathtaking. Your black boy is beautiful. Black cats are my favourite. There's something very alluring about them.


Thank you but QOTN was and Darkness is female. Maybe it is the wicked look that suggests male?


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

QOTN said:


> Thank you but QOTN was and Darkness is female. Maybe it is the wicked look that suggests male?


Oops, sorry. I love the look on her face, very alluring. They really are stunning cats. We're going to do more research into breeders in the west coast of Scotland.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

_I'm especially in love with Wibbi, what a stunning colour
_
I'm lucky enough to live with two fawn orientals.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> _I'm especially in love with Wibbi, what a stunning colour_
> I'm lucky enough to live with two fawn orientals.


I'm even luckier with three! Actually they are all the same colour, sound and free from ghosting. Who cares about type? They are all related to your Basil. He and Rose both have Gam as great great grandsire. Gam is also Wibbi's great great great grandsire and Biscuit's half brother.

I expect you might find Wibbi rather a trial, always in your face and too hyper even at 9 years old to sit and have a cuddle lasting longer than about 90 seconds. I don't know how she will cope with going blind. (She is homozygous like her dad.) At least I hope that I have managed to prevent lots of others going blind. I am pleased to see how many Siamese and Oriental breeders now state their cats are negative. If only the BAC had agreed to take the action I suggested, GCCF registered Siamese and Orientals would be guaranteed by now to be no worse than carriers.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Yes, PRA testing has come on. I have a carrier but Basil is negative. However I'm always surprised at the lack of knowledge of some breeders, and someone on the BAC said it was pointless when there was amyloidosis and lymphoma rife in some lines. Silly woman. We can at least deal with the long-hanging fruit.


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

OrientalSlave said:


> _I'm especially in love with Wibbi, what a stunning colour
> _
> I'm lucky enough to live with two fawn orientals.


Awesome. Is fawn an unusual colour? They really are a stunning breed.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Eilidh said:


> Awesome. Is fawn an unusual colour? They really are a stunning breed.


It's the most recessive colour being dilute cinnamon. I've never seen any others at shows apart from a fawn spotty with somewhat indistinct markings. At one show a probationer OSH judge was delighted as she could do an assessment on my fawn girl.


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

OrientalSlave said:


> It's the most recessive colour being dilute cinnamon. I've never seen any others at shows apart from a fawn spotty with somewhat indistinct markings. At one show a probationer OSH judge was delighted as she could do an assessment on my fawn girl.


Do you still breed Orientals? I really do love the fawn and black colours.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Eilidh said:


> Do you still breed Orientals? I really do love the fawn and black colours.


Very occasionally I do and funnily enough those are my favourite colours as well, along with chocolate (Havana). However blacks have always been the last to get homes so I avoid breeding any.


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

OrientalSlave said:


> Very occasionally I do and funnily enough those are my favourite colours as well, along with chocolate (Havana). However blacks have always been the last to get homes so I avoid breeding any.


I really don't get why they are the last to get homes. Here in Scotland I was brought up thinking black cats are lucky. I know in shelters they are always the last to go. The picture you put on of your black boy sitting outside was beautiful, his coat was like velvet and the shine.. That's really sad you don't do black anymore. You seem really passionate and genuine about your cats and breeding.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks. Breeding is just a hobby, along with showing. I do adore my cats, and my black boy looks just the same now at 10 1/2.  But I also live in Scotland. Maybe everyone finds blacks hard to home.


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

OrientalSlave said:


> Thanks. Breeding is just a hobby, along with showing. I do adore my cats, and my black boy looks just the same now at 10 1/2.  But I also live in Scotland. Maybe everyone finds blacks hard to home.


Sorry, I've taken this off topic, is there many shows in Scotland? I was reading up on finding the right breeder etc, also I've read a few threads on here about shows. They sound like a rush. I'd like to go, not to show, but to speak to breeders etc. I'm also thinking of joining the west coast of Scotland cat club, will I get details of shows through that?. The ones I've seen so far have been in England. Sorry for the million qquestions. ..


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I've sent you a PM.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Yes, PRA testing has come on. I have a carrier but Basil is negative. However I'm always surprised at the lack of knowledge of some breeders, and someone on the BAC said it was pointless when there was amyloidosis and lymphoma rife in some lines. Silly woman. We can at least deal with the long-hanging fruit.


You would have found it very difficult to credit the ridiculous things that were said at the OJBAC meeting where our club proposed that no litter could be GCCF registered without one parent having a PRA negative test. Any body would have thought I had suggested we all trekked to the North Pole and back starting that very minute. I had known some of those people for 20 years and never realised how little they really cared about cats. There are actually very few lines with amyloidosis and mediastinal lymphoma but they tend to be the well known lines and therefore, I suppose, in their eyes, the only ones that matter. I think the early renal failure is more of a problem but again, it is restricted to a few famous lines.

What is so inconsistent is the rule that all white cats must have a certificate of hearing before they can be registered on the Active. I have had two cats go deaf in old age and I can say with certainty that it has very little effect on their quality of life compared with blindness.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Eilidh said:


> Awesome. Is fawn an unusual colour? They really are a stunning breed.


There were more cinnamons and fawns around when we were working towards championship status for those colours but it is often the case that numbers drop when the goal is reached. Most of us who were around at the time are now either dead or not breeding.

My Rose was the second fawn female Champion and Wibbi was the third. Wibbi was also the first fawn girl to get a Grand certificate but I stopped showing her before she was made up.


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

It's a shame that there isn't more people with the passion and a genuine love for this breed, such as yourself and OrientalSlave. I'm hoping to do my research right and find such a breeder about. Really have fallen in love with them. Even if it takes a few years we will make sure we do it right to get the right cat/kitten to fit into our family. So is fawn not a common colour anymore? It's a shame if it isn't as it really is a stunning colour.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Eilidh said:


> It's a shame that there isn't more people with the passion and a genuine love for this breed, such as yourself and OrientalSlave. I'm hoping to do my research right and find such a breeder about. Really have fallen in love with them. Even if it takes a few years we will make sure we do it right to get the right cat/kitten to fit into our family. So is fawn not a common colour anymore? It's a shame if it isn't as it really is a stunning colour.


Oriental Slave will probably produce fawns since she is one of the very few people with a fawn stud. There are plenty of breeders of Orientals but, as you will have seen from this thread, there is a multitude of different colours and patterns.


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## AmyRedd (Nov 9, 2015)

I'm usually in dogchat but just read through this thread and it's made me really miss the two oriental boys I grew up with as a child. They're such gorgeous cats I hope plenty of people still enjoy them.,. I'd very much love to have another one day (and maybe a Devon Rex!) but I'm currently over catted with three waifs and strays so that will have to wait.

I would love to see a fawn @OrientalSlave!

Here's my two lovely boys. They were around 15 in all these photos


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

My Wib mentioned by Oriental Slave is first pictured in this thread on page one, later with her babies and then she and the other fawns are on page 5 and usually on their birthdays etc.


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## Pinto (Oct 15, 2017)

OrientalSlave said:


> I have a wonderful black boy, Max. He will be 9 very soon.
> 
> View attachment 268606
> [/QU
> ...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Gosh look at the udder on him!


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## AmyRedd (Nov 9, 2015)

QOTN said:


> My Wib mentioned by Oriental Slave is first pictured in this thread on page one, later with her babies and then she and the other fawns are on page 5 and usually on their birthdays etc.


I must have missed them on the earlier pages! Wibb is stunning and Bear! He reminds me of my Seal who also had very deep set eyes... you could never tell what he was thinking


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Gosh look at the udder on him!


ps he is 10 1/2 now


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Thought a couple of new photos of fawns might be in order. The first pic is Basil (front) and Eadlin (eyes closed, collar) at home. The second is Basil in his pen at the E&E show with his third CC. BTW I didn't have to claim his title, the GCCF emailed me. Must be something in their new computer system.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

AmyRedd said:


> I must have missed them on the earlier pages! Wibb is stunning and Bear! He reminds me of my Seal who also had very deep set eyes... you could never tell what he was thinking


Bear is actually lilac but he carries cinnamon so has that gingery tinge. He is very dark though and was one of the IC qualifying caramels.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Thought a couple of new photos of fawns might be in order. The first pic is Basil (front) and Eadlin (eyes closed, collar) at home. The second is Basil in his pen at the E&E show with his third CC. BTW I didn't have to claim his title, the GCCF emailed me. Must be something in their new computer system.


It's lovely to see that Eadlin has really accepted Basil.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> Thought a couple of new photos of fawns might be in order. The first pic is Basil (front) and Eadlin (eyes closed, collar) at home. The second is Basil in his pen at the E&E show with his third CC. BTW I didn't have to claim his title, the GCCF emailed me. Must be something in their new computer system.
> 
> View attachment 332675
> 
> View attachment 332676


Basil has an amazing nose!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Psygon said:


> Basil has an amazing nose!


All the better for sniffing food out with...


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

QOTN said:


> Oriental Slave will probably produce fawns since she is one of the very few people with a fawn stud. There are plenty of breeders of Orientals but, as you will have seen from this thread, there is a multitude of different colours and patterns.


Yeah she has been giving me some advice via messages. I just want to do it right. I'm going to attend the Fife show in the spring. I can't wait, I've never been before, I think it will be a great experience.  
Yeah, there is such a variety of colours, I love going back through the pictures to look, they really are beautiful.


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

BritishBilbo said:


> Great day at the supreme today loved every minute, sad to see so little entries really more so in the Siamese section where numbers were really low.
> Harley got her first Grand Premier certificate and got BOB so I'm a happy mum. That's us done now till sometime next year
> View attachment 330936
> View attachment 330937
> ...


I love the Harley Quinn thing going on, absolutely love DC more so than Marvel. Ada has a Harley coller and Einstein has a Harley and joker, and a superhero one with their icons on it. In our bedroom my partner bought me a lot of Harley prints on old enciclopedia pages, we have them framed they're awesome. I'll post a pic of it all to you. (Pm, don't want to go off
topic)


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

OrientalSlave said:


> Thought a couple of new photos of fawns might be in order. The first pic is Basil (front) and Eadlin (eyes closed, collar) at home. The second is Basil in his pen at the E&E show with his third CC. BTW I didn't have to claim his title, the GCCF emailed me. Must be something in their new computer system.
> 
> View attachment 332675
> 
> View attachment 332676


He looks so well behaved sitting in his pen at the show. Both are stunning!


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

QOTN said:


> Wib is 9 today and this pic shows her and Biscuit (dad) resting after slaughtering a catnip sack
> View attachment 315572
> 
> and by herself
> View attachment 315573


Those eyes...


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Eilidh said:


> I love the Harley Quinn thing going on, absolutely love DC more so than Marvel. Ada has a Harley coller and Einstein has a Harley and joker, and a superhero one with their icons on it. In our bedroom my partner bought me a lot of Harley prints on old enciclopedia pages, we have them framed they're awesome. I'll post a pic of it all to you. (Pm, don't want to go off
> topic)


Thank you  I'm not sure most people got who or what Harley Quinn was at the show. The ones who did get it though appreciated it!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Can't believe I forgot to post, I got to look after 3 of my good friends orientals for three weeks at our Cattery over Christmas and new year. They're all from the same breeder as Harley, some are distant relations if you look back into the pedigrees.

Enjoy.









Hooli








Humperdink








Hoffman


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Anddddd whilst im here you might aswell have some pics of the lady herself, Harley seems to of gone from baby to adult in the past couple of months. The baldy neck ordeal we had back in October is completely healed and there's been no sign of it making a return. We had some hair sent off to be cultured but it all came back negative so we will never know what it truly was.
She's been on a not diet so much but a more controlled amount of food, she is looking a bit better for it but she's never going to be a slim Jim, her mother was a pudding aswell.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

A bit of a belly does not notice so much with long legs attached!


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@BritishBilbo 
Love that last pic


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

BritishBilbo said:


> Can't believe I forgot to post, I got to look after 3 of my good friends orientals for three weeks at our Cattery over Christmas and new year. They're all from the same breeder as Harley, some are distant relations if you look back into the pedigrees.
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> ...


Oh wow! They are perfect. Such expressive little faces. xx


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## Eilidh (Oct 2, 2017)

Aww in the first picture Harley is so cute showing off her claws! She is one fine looking girl @BritishBilbo xx


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> A bit of a belly does not notice so much with long legs attached!


Hahahha does this apply to humans too?!?!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> Hahahha does this apply to humans too?!?!


Probably not if the legs are so long the belly is at eye level for other people!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Eilidh said:


> Aww in the first picture Harley is so cute showing off her claws! She is one fine looking girl @BritishBilbo xx


Thank you! She is often showing me her claws, I take it as a feed me or die threat lol!


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Lovely photos! Wow, those legs go on forever, she must be a supermodel of the cat world :Happy


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

First show of the year today Harley nearly had a red card day ...
2 x grand certificates making her upto Grand Premier Hemlock Harley Quinn.
4 x first places in her side classes
1 Best of breed
And the other best of breed she got a could not handle!!!!
However there seemed to be an exceptional amount of unhappy cats this show people were commenting on it throughout the day. Harley's temperament is always commented on so for her to get a CNH isn't like her!

My friends came with their Hemlock oriental in the pedigree pet section who did very well he got his best in colour, first master cat certificate and a first and second in his side classes which were LARGE classes!!

Good day out overall very pleased!!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Well done Gr Pr Harley. Can I guess the CNH came from BP not BB?


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Well done Gr Pr Harley. Can I guess the CNH came from BP not BB?


Nope from BB!
There was a lot of people saying the cats aren't happy today at the show, not sure what it was but it was weird. Laid back cats were peed off. Harley you can do anything with yes she gets annoyed when she's disturbed for the 3rd or 4th time but she's never nasty with it, really unlike her. We all have our moments though lol!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Happy Valentines Day! Love Harley x


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Lovely quaint little show today in Northampton. I didn't expect much as I've never expected Harley to get her imperial title. 
In a class of three female neuters after imps Harley came out on top, which I'm ever so chuffed about but as expected the certificate was withheld. 
Unfortunately though Harley was penned to an entire male who was completely wound up, he was withdrawn for being judged, he had managed to pee and it had leaked into Harley's pen of course this was making her more upset. When it came to BOV she wouldn't let the judges handle her which I was gutted about as I know she had a whackin great chance of getting BOV female neuter, I could hear the judges saying she was to good too miss but she was so wound up they had to leave her be.

This is the second show in a row she's got wound up at over another cat, I have already sent off show forms to another show but if she's upset and this next one (it's not for a good few months) then I will not take her again (maybe the supreme though that layout seems to really work for her). 
She's such a poppet and it would be a shame to stop going to shows but Harley's welfare is much more important to me than rosettes and certificates! X


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@BritishBilbo 
Ah poor girl, pee in her cage epressed


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Summercat said:


> @BritishBilbo
> Ah poor girl, pee in her cage epressed


Yeah stinky tom cat pee too lol!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Poor Harley. I'mean glad she is doing so well but it is a shame if is getting stressed by other cats.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

lymorelynn said:


> Poor Harley. I'mean glad she is doing so well but it is a shame if is getting stressed by other cats.


 Yes it's a shame it all started when they messed up the pens once and put us in between entire male Siamese since that show she's been really miffed and we've always been penned near entire males so it's not helped. I've been in touch with the show already entered and have asked for a double pen now I'm hoping with the neighbours being a bit further away it will help. After that if she is unhappy that will be her retirement show!!!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Sometimes giving them a rest from shows makes all the difference. Just at the time the cinnamons achieved championship status, The Pig decided he hated shows. He got one grand but when I had a report saying 'turning into a right moaner,' I had to give him a rest. I took him out again a year or two later and he was alright to get his next two grands. In those days that was the pinnacle! The trouble with Imperials is you have to get so many.

Harley is so distinctive looking, I am sure the judges have talked about her and some judges get nervous of difficult cats which makes things worse. You are also often dependent on how good the steward is.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Sometimes giving them a rest from shows makes all the difference. Just at the time the cinnamons achieved championship status, The Pig decided he hated shows. He got one grand but when I had a report saying 'turning into a right moaner,' I had to give him a rest. I took him out again a year or two later and he was alright to get his next two grands. In those days that was the pinnacle! The trouble with Imperials is you have to get so many.
> 
> Harley is so distinctive looking, I am sure the judges have talked about her and some judges get nervous of difficult cats which makes things worse. You are also often dependent on how good the steward is.


Yeah shes got a few months off now and then after this next show unless shes decided shows are ok again she wont go back out anytime soon after. I've got her a double pen for the next show in the hopes that will help her feel less penned in next to strange kitties.
With Harley if they ignored her hisses and just grabbed her then shes ok once shes out, but of course she starts hissing and looks like the demon child from hell (which was her name as a kitten so seems to be living upto it!) so they back off.

We shall see I'm happy with her Grand title thats all I ever thought we would make so I'm a happy momma whatever the outcome!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Just reviving the best thread  with some recent pics of her ladyship. Hope you are all well!


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> Just reviving the best thread  with some recent pics of her ladyship. Hope you are all well!
> 
> View attachment 350588
> 
> ...


Truly beautiful x


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

She is a beauty! Those eyes are mesmerizing x


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Such a gorgeous girl, beautiful face


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Course, I get to see her lots over on Facebook but it's lovely to see her here too :Cat Such a beautiful young lady


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

lymorelynn said:


> Course, I get to see her lots over on Facebook but it's lovely to see her here too :Cat Such a beautiful young lady


Haha yes you get a double whammy!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

She’s such a beautiful girl, just adorable xx


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

First show since February, was dreading it with Harley's bad attitude at the last few shows but the double pen really worked wonders.

2 imperial certificates, 2 best of breeds and firsts in all her side classes. Really pleased, I was all set for this to be her last show but Maybe there's a glimmer of hope for this spotty brat just yet! 










My friends took their two orientals in the pedigree pet section too.

Humperdink was made up to 'Master cat Humperdink' today 










This was Hoffman's first show and he got his first master cat certificate.


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> First show since February, was dreading it with Harley's bad attitude at the last few shows but the double pen really worked wonders.
> 
> 2 imperial certificates, 2 best of breeds and firsts in all her side classes. Really pleased, I was all set for this to be her last show but Maybe there's a glimmer of hope for this spotty brat just yet!
> 
> ...


Fantastic news, well done!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Congratulations on the great results and to Hump and Hoff too. Shame that the other lovely girl, Luna, had to go home with an upset tummy


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

BritishBilbo said:


> First show since February, was dreading it with Harley's bad attitude at the last few shows but the double pen really worked wonders.
> 
> 2 imperial certificates, 2 best of breeds and firsts in all her side classes. Really pleased, I was all set for this to be her last show but Maybe there's a glimmer of hope for this spotty brat just yet!
> 
> ...


He's lovely, how come he's being shown as a pet


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@BritishBilbo 
Congrats to Harley
And for your friends cat, I think 'Master Cat Humperdink' sounds awesome, great name to have and use:Cat


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> He's lovely, how come he's being shown as a pet


Humperdink or Hoff ???

Humpy because he doesn't have enough white which is a shame because he's lovely.

Hoff - has pattern faults and floppy ears lol!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks, not enough white is a problem with OSH bicolours, and it's hard to get good tabby patterns as well. They are beautiful though.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> Thanks, not enough white is a problem with OSH bicolours, and it's hard to get good tabby patterns as well. They are beautiful though.


Yeah his pattern is quite nice With lovely spots it's just a shame about the white 

He loves me I'm his momma 2 as I look after them at the Cattery for a month + at Christmas every year and I go visit them a lot. I could take him home with me lol.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

BritishBilbo said:


> View attachment 353788
> 
> Yeah his pattern is quite nice With lovely spots it's just a shame about the white
> 
> He loves me I'm his momma 2 as I look after them at the Cattery for a month + at Christmas every year and I go visit them a lot. I could take him home with me lol.


Looks good in the photo, if you stretch him out does he look like the spots are over a mackerel or classic pattern? Sometimes it's easy to see. Current thinking as I understand it is that there are three tabby patterns, classic (with the whirl), mackerel (stripes) and ticked (no markings on the body), and the first two can be tuned into spots by a modifier gene. With Ocicats the odd classic would come along, these are now a separate breed in GCCF, the Aztec.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Looks good in the photo, if you stretch him out does he look like the spots are over a mackerel or classic pattern? Sometimes it's easy to see. Current thinking as I understand it is that there are three tabby patterns, classic (with the whirl), mackerel (stripes) and ticked (no markings on the body), and the first two can be tuned into spots by a modifier gene. With Ocicats the odd classic would come along, these are now a separate breed in GCCF, the Aztec.


Have you seen some of the pics of tabbies posted recently? I am thinking particularly of Oscar and AmsMam's Coco. They look as though they have a mixture of mackerel and classic. It made me wonder if mackerel has incomplete dominance over classic.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Have you seen some of the pics of tabbies posted recently? I am thinking particularly of Oscar and AmsMam's Coco. They look as though they have a mixture of mackerel and classic. It made me wonder if mackerel has incomplete dominance over classic.


No, I've missed them. However my personal belief is that there are lots of polygenes floating around to muddy the waters, and on domestics I've never seen a really good pattern. I used to have one who was ticked in summer & spotty in winter...


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> Looks good in the photo, if you stretch him out does he look like the spots are over a mackerel or classic pattern? Sometimes it's easy to see. Current thinking as I understand it is that there are three tabby patterns, classic (with the whirl), mackerel (stripes) and ticked (no markings on the body), and the first two can be tuned into spots by a modifier gene. With Ocicats the odd classic would come along, these are now a separate breed in GCCF, the Aztec.


I'll have to look next time I see him in person


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

To warm for mischief!


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## Rhea mother of Zeus (May 8, 2018)

Zeus' mother is a cream-colored Tonkinese. He's inherited the long leggy Oriental body type.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Rhea mother of Zeus said:


> Zeus' mother is a cream-colored Tonkinese. He's inherited the long leggy Oriental body type.


Zeus looks as though he could be a black smoke. Do you know his sire?


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## Rhea mother of Zeus (May 8, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Zeus looks as though he could be a black smoke. Do you know his sire?


He's definitely got smoke markings. In better lights I can see stripes under the black.

The sire was apparently a Bengal.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

I'm going to do a separate post all about this cat wheel once all the cats are a little more settled with it but can't help show you guys the one and only Harley's first go on it (bribed of course)!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Just posting some piccies in my fav thread 
No shows in the line up none of the schedules work for me. We're enjoying the warm weather here!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Is August (18th) still impossible for you? Our schedule is not out yet but we would love to have Harley on show.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Is August (18th) still impossible for you? Our schedule is not out yet but we would love to have Harley on show.


It is really yes it's smack bang right in the middle of the schools being off the cattery will be absolutely mad.


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

Am new here although have been reading (lurking) for months! Here are our two; Pixie, a six month old lilac who we have had since 13 weeks and Sky, a bicolour tortie (I think), our rescue cat who we have had for two weeks. Sky needs some tlc to bring her back to tip top shape, but we are getting there!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

My goodness, in that pic of Pixie she looks so like my Wibbi.

Edit to ask could she be fawn?


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

QOTN said:


> My goodness, in that pic of Pixie she looks so like my Wibbi.
> 
> Edit to ask could she be fawn?


I just looked at some photos of your Wibbi, and yes, I can definitely see a similarity! She's been sunbathing and has changed colour quite a bit, she has quite a ginger/brownish tinge now. At her first show, there was discussion that she might be caramel and I was asked if she had any caramel in her pedigree. Her mother is a Havana and father a lilac point Siamese. Not that I know what I'm looking at in her pedigree, but I couldn't see any caramel in her ancestry. I'm guessing when her kitten coat goes, then we might get back to her true colour. She didn't get BOB due to the colour issue but at this point, I'm just ascertaining if she enjoys the shows and therefore if we continue when she's an adult.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

One of the things that made me wonder is the colour of her pads. If you pm me your pedigree I can see if there is any cinnamon lurking.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Posh23 said:


> I just looked at some photos of your Wibbi, and yes, I can definitely see a similarity! She's been sunbathing and has changed colour quite a bit, she has quite a ginger/brownish tinge now. At her first show, there was discussion that she might be caramel and I was asked if she had any caramel in her pedigree. Her mother is a Havana and father a lilac point Siamese. Not that I know what I'm looking at in her pedigree, but I couldn't see any caramel in her ancestry. I'm guessing when her kitten coat goes, then we might get back to her true colour. She didn't get BOB due to the colour issue but at this point, I'm just ascertaining if she enjoys the shows and therefore if we continue when she's an adult.


Caramel is believed to be caused by a gene called dilute modifier that only affects the colour of dilute cats, so blue, lilac, fawn & cream. So, a caramel cat doesn't have to have caramel in the pedigree, the belief is the gene can come from a black/brown/seal, chocolate or cinnamon parent.

Since your cat has a Havana mother caramel is possible. Yes, her true colour, unaffected by sunbathing, should appear as she changes to her adult coat, unless the sun keeps shining 

I also would be interested in your cat's pedigree being slightly obsessed with them...


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

OrientalSlave said:


> Caramel is believed to be caused by a gene called dilute modifier that only affects the colour of dilute cats, so blue, lilac, fawn & cream. So, a caramel cat doesn't have to have caramel in the pedigree, the belief is the gene can come from a black/brown/seal, chocolate or cinnamon parent.
> 
> Since your cat has a Havana mother caramel is possible. Yes, her true colour, unaffected by sunbathing, should appear as she changes to her adult coat, unless the sun keeps shining
> 
> I also would be interested in your cat's pedigree being slightly obsessed with them...


Quite happy to let you have her details. Not sure if there is a minimum post requirement, or I am just being dim, but can't see how to initiate a PM?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> Caramel is believed to be caused by a gene called dilute modifier that only affects the colour of dilute cats, so blue, lilac, fawn & cream. So, a caramel cat doesn't have to have caramel in the pedigree, the belief is the gene can come from a black/brown/seal, chocolate or cinnamon parent.
> 
> Since your cat has a Havana mother caramel is possible. Yes, her true colour, unaffected by sunbathing, should appear as she changes to her adult coat, unless the sun keeps shining
> 
> *I also would be interested in your cat's pedigree being slightly obsessed with them*...


I have seen parents and grandparents and am none the wiser but you have a more up to date database. I can send you those.


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

I've got a screenshot of her pedigree from the GCCF page now I'm on my desktop this morning. Couldn't get all the details to come up on my ipad last night so had to provide them in longhand to QOTN. Not an easy job when auto correct wants to lend a helping hand!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Posh23 said:


> I've got a screenshot of her pedigree from the GCCF page now I'm on my desktop this morning. Couldn't get all the details to come up on my ipad last night so had to provide them in longhand to QOTN. Not an easy job when auto correct wants to lend a helping hand!


Can I see please?


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Can I see please?


Have sent it!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

OK folks, thanks for the info, I've managed to get a 10-generation pedigree for her.  I think fawn is very unlikely - she has a cinnamon great-great-great grandmother, and the same fawn appears as a great, great, great, great, great grandfather on both sides. What I can't easily find information on is if any of the intervening non-cinnamon, non-fawn cats have produced cinnamon or fawn kittens thus showing they are cinnamon carriers. That would reduce the odds which at present look very long.


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

Gosh, to the uninitiated (me), that is all a bit baffling! At the last show (her first and my first ever show too), it was suggested she was caramel, so could that be a possibility or as one of the judge reports said, she may be 'a bad lilac'!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Posh23 said:


> Gosh, to the uninitiated (me), that is all a bit baffling! At the last show (her first and my first ever show too), it was suggested she was caramel, so could that be a possibility or as one of the judge reports said, she may be 'a bad lilac'!


I have known cinnamon to come down 10 generations without showing in the inbetween cats so not impossible but unlikely. Even if Pixie only carries cinnamon, it could mess up the lilac colour. I only bred one lilac whose colour conformed to the SOP.

Her open judge who questioned her colour is a pupil although I have thought her perception of colour was good but Pixie's pads look very pink for caramel (whatever caramel is!) They are supposed to be 'pinkish-grey' for lilac or fawn based.


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

QOTN said:


> I have known cinnamon to come down 10 generations without showing in the inbetween cats so not impossible but unlikely. Even if Pixie only carries cinnamon, it could mess up the lilac colour. I only bred one lilac whose colour conformed to the SOP.
> 
> Her open judge who questioned her colour is a pupil although I have thought her perception of colour was good but Pixie's pads look very pink for caramel (whatever caramel is!)


I was also at Pixie's cage whilst Di Brown (I think it was her, not sure of all the judges yet) came along with, I presume, a pupil judge for a tutorial. She asked who owned her and asked if there was any caramel in her pedigree. I said I didn't know but that I believed the colour change was because she was sunbathing. They then looked at her paws and said due to the colour of those and her nose, they believed she was a dark lilac. I fully expect to have the same colour issue at her shortly forthcoming show!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Posh23 said:


> Gosh, to the uninitiated (me), that is all a bit baffling! At the last show (her first and my first ever show too), it was suggested she was caramel, so could that be a possibility or as one of the judge reports said, she may be 'a bad lilac'!


To have a chance of being fawn both her parents would have to carry cinnamon.

The non-cinnamon, non-fawn offspring of a cinnamon or fawn will carry cinnamon. It's 50/50 their kittens do - 50%. It's another 50/50 so 25% their kittens do, and so on, so when the cinnamon or fawn is way back the odds are pretty low of having cinnamon carriers. The chances of her sire carrying cinnamon are 12.5%, of her dam 3.125%, and the odds of a kitten from two carriers being cinnamon or fawn are another 25%. Of course this is all averages, and averages don't always follow. I bred a litter with 5 boys and 1 girl, and another with 5 boys. The odds against either are fairly long!

On my screen she doesn't look like the fawn kittens I've bred, but QOTN has bred many more than I have.

I looked for caramel in her pedigree and didn't find any, but that doesn't mean there are none, just that there are none registered as caramel in what I have. It also doesn't mean she's not simply a 'bad lilac' - some people think that's all caramels are, bad blues, bad lilacs or bad fawns... I've hinted at one issue which is cats that are actually not as registered and that can mean blue/lilac/fawn/cream that should be registered as caramel or apricot (if they exist!) and caramel / apricot that should be registered as blue/lilac/fawn or cream. I've certainly seen some very dubious colour cats at shows, including one whose head, legs & lower body was cream but whose back & tail were very much like apricot. With no gene test for it, one can't be sure except personally I'd say he's not a good example of either since he looks neither one thing or the other.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

As usual, we have to make allowances for the way our own screens show the colours. Obviously there are as many 'bad' fawns as there are 'bad' lilacs but I think it more likely that Pixie is a lilac carrying cinnamon which is what my Bear is but he fooled enough judges to become one of the 10 IC qualifiers when the caramels were working towards championship status.









He looks different according to the light which is a problem with all dilutes especially in show halls which are artificially lit.










This last pic is an attempt to show his paws, definitely not 'right' for caramel but possibly darker than Pixie's? I realise she is a kitten and I expect hers will darken a bit but they look very pink.


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

Bear is gorgeous! His paws look a similar colour to Pixie's. At the (only) show, I helped hand out some cards in the afternoon and I put one onto a pen of a caramel boy. I was taken by how much the colour looked similar to Pixie's so I can completely understand the judges' comments.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

The trouble with caramel is the huge variation you see within that 'colour.' This is why some of us think it is not due to a *major *gene, *the* dilute modifier, but more likely the effect of *many polygenes *which assort randomly depending on the inheritance from each parent, a bit like the variation found in every colour.

A very good example is the black gene (nothing dilute there.) Some seal point Siamese are brown as they should be and some are virtually black. If you want to breed good colour seal points you breed the brown ones but if you want a jet black oriental, you choose one of the darker ones.


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

This might be a better photo to show the paw pads and her colour before she started sitting in the window! This was taken about two weeks after we got her.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

She definitely looks lilac there but any cinnamon tinge would only develop gradually anyway.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Posh23 said:


> This might be a better photo to show the paw pads and her colour before she started sitting in the window! This was taken about two weeks after we got her.





QOTN said:


> She definitely looks lilac there but any cinnamon tinge would only develop gradually anyway.


No idea what colour she is... but my word she is stunning :Cat


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

Psygon said:


> No idea what colour she is... but my word she is stunning :Cat


Thank you! I have been stalking this forum for some months and saw your beautiful Tonks and the fabulous show success! You must be very proud!


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Posh23 said:


> Thank you! I have been stalking this forum for some months and saw your beautiful Tonks and the fabulous show success! You must be very proud!


Aww thanks - yes, very proud of Jammy - looking forward to our next show now :-D


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

I have something to admit PF ... I maaaaay just be bringing home a new arrival next week of the oriental variety ... 
This will be my last cat for years I don't want anymore after this new one, I'm hoping they will bond with Harley as she is desperate for another cat to cuddle with and groom and my BSH boys don't trust her... I don't blame them she can be grooming one minute and biting the next .

I'm going to be mean and not show you any photos until I have them though... but would anybody like to guess what colour they will be??

And for the ori folke on here yes they are from Janet again .

Here's a photo of ratbag anyway for the mean time lol!


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

BritishBilbo said:


> I have something to admit PF ... I maaaaay just be bringing home a new arrival next week of the oriental variety ...
> This will be my last cat for years I don't want anymore after this new one, I'm hoping they will bond with Harley as she is desperate for another cat to cuddle with and groom and my BSH boys don't trust her... I don't blame them she can be grooming one minute and biting the next .
> 
> I'm going to be mean and not show you any photos until I have them though... but would anybody like to guess what colour they will be??
> ...


Gorgeous! What colour is she?


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Posh23 said:


> Gorgeous! What colour is she?


Harley is a 'chocolate spotted' oriental shorthair, she looks like she has chocolate buttons scattered all over her


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Has to be a tabby or a bicolour surely. Couldn't guess the colour or pattern.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

Isn't she gorgeous. Look at that tail!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Has to be a tabby or a bicolour surely. Couldn't guess the colour or pattern.


:Smuggrin:Smuggrin:Smuggrin:Smuggrin:Smuggrin


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

I don't know Janet, so not sure what colors and patterns she breeds but will go the opposite and say black.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

BritishBilbo said:


> I have something to admit PF ... I maaaaay just be bringing home a new arrival next week of the oriental variety ...
> This will be my last cat for years I don't want anymore after this new one, I'm hoping they will bond with Harley as she is desperate for another cat to cuddle with and groom and my BSH boys don't trust her... I don't blame them she can be grooming one minute and biting the next .
> 
> I'm going to be mean and not show you any photos until I have them though... but would anybody like to guess what colour they will be??
> ...


Exciting :-D

My guess... A tabby... Maybe lilac or blue! No idea if the breeder has cats of this colour... Hah


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Psygon said:


> Exciting :-D
> 
> My guess... A tabby... Maybe lilac or blue! No idea if the breeder has cats of this colour... Hah


Hahahah she has black self's but only the very odd lilac or blue, but you never know.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Up at 4.45am .... must be kitten collection day! Keep your eyes peeled later!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Hi PF xx


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Hallo Minnie. I half guessed but your new owner said oriental so I did not consider pointed! (To me you are Siamese.)

Very sorry Vinnie. I was not wearing my specs.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Hallo Minnie. I half guessed but your new owner said oriental so I did not consider pointed! (To me you are Siamese.)


Hehe yes what some people see as siamese some see as oriental. We're still on the 3hr30min journey home atm but he's fast off!


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@BritishBilbo 
What a cutie:Cat!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Hello Vinnie :Cat I see you have a lemur tucked up there with you 
He's gorgeous @BritishBilbo Love the little nose splodge :Cat


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Hi Vinnie and welcome to the Forums!


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## Posh23 (Jul 4, 2018)

Gorgeous!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Some photos of my new little nugget Vinnie I'll post them here from now on instead of his 'welcome' thread.

He's approx 2.5kg now and is catching up size wise with his siblings.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

BritishBilbo said:


> Some photos of my new little nugget Vinnie I'll post them here from now on instead of his 'welcome' thread.
> 
> He's approx 2.5kg now and is catching up size wise with his siblings.
> 
> ...


Vinnie is adorable 
It didn't take Harley long to except Vinnie into the fold, love him :Kiss x


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

What lovely photos, especially the last one. They are so beautiful. So glad they are getting on so well.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

ebonycat said:


> Vinnie is adorable
> It didn't take Harley long to except Vinnie into the fold, love him :Kiss x


She looooves him she is always watching him, she looks at him like a loved up teenager lol!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

He's lovely, think you need to become OrientalBilbo


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

This was not the thread to find when toying with getting either an oriental or exotic as a show neuter.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

lillytheunicorn said:


> This was not the thread to find when toying with getting either an oriental or exotic as a show neuter.


Go on. Be brave. Join the addicts!


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Go on. Be brave. Join the addicts!


I'm just not sure I want the Oriental to teach the Norwegians to talk any more than they already do

I love the Oriental look but I hate Norwegians who's ears are in the Oriental position which is what the extreme type we are starting to see, the Siawegian. I'm not sure I wouldn't get a huge amount of flack if I had an oriental (especially considering there are rumours that Orientals were used to get the ears size and set). That's what's stopping me getting one, that and I am torn with the opposite end of the spectrum, the exotic. I just love their temperaments.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

lillytheunicorn said:


> I'm just not sure I want the Oriental to teach the Norwegians to talk any more than they already do
> 
> I love the Oriental look but I hate Norwegians who's ears are in the Oriental position which is what the extreme type we are starting to see, the Siawegian. I'm not sure I wouldn't get a huge amount of flack if I had an oriental (especially considering there are rumours that Orientals were used to get the ears size and set). That's what's stopping me getting one, that and I am torn with the opposite end of the spectrum, the exotic. I just love their temperaments.


As long as you behave yourself so an oriental does not have to nag you, I think their voices are perfectly acceptable. I do not like extreme type of any sort but I would say that very large ears are not really harmful to a cat unless they are positioned coming out of their neck instead of their head. Set too low they pull the eyes straight and then they can be deepset which causes problems.

I think there are far more health risks with exotic type. Are their temperaments very different to other cats? I had an idea they must have British ancestors.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

That was meant to be tounge in cheek, Norwegians are supposed to be a soft voiced breed. Mine are very vocal, they like you to know exactly what they are doing. Call you so they can find you quicker, demand that you open the door, and Loki positively shouts at you when your in the shower. 

That’s why I do not like the ‘siawegian’ as the ear set pulls there eyes down so they lose the beautiful eye shape and position Norwegians have. They also do tend to be more deep set. 

Exotics are at risk of PKD but FIFe require genetic testing (or negative by parentage) of all EXO and GCCF require testing of breeding cats. Carefully bred cats still have decent nostrils but their eyes do always water. They are very playful cats and very kitten like even as adults.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Come to the dark side ..... I have British Shorthair aswell as my Orientals


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

:Shamefullyembarrased:Shamefullyembarrased


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> :Shamefullyembarrased:Shamefullyembarrased
> View attachment 362499
> View attachment 362500
> View attachment 362501
> ...


That's just adorable


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## oliviarussian (Sep 2, 2010)

BritishBilbo said:


> :Shamefullyembarrased:Shamefullyembarrased
> View attachment 362499
> View attachment 362500
> View attachment 362501
> ...


To die for!!!!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

BritishBilbo said:


> :Shamefullyembarrased:Shamefullyembarrased
> View attachment 362499
> View attachment 362500
> View attachment 362501
> ...


Oh my!!! We need a love button on here..... how adorable xx


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

He’s growing so quickly gorgeous photos, glad they’re all getting on so well, made himself right at home


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

I've been taking so many photos I could literally spam this thread lol but I will resist don't worry


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

BritishBilbo said:


> I've been taking so many photos I could literally spam this thread lol but I will resist don't worry
> View attachment 363191
> View attachment 363192
> View attachment 363193
> ...


Spam away, I love seeing your adorable gang


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

I love seeing them too


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Those loong legs are just sooo unbelievable


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## Dumpling (Feb 18, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> I've been taking so many photos I could literally spam this thread lol but I will resist don't worry
> View attachment 363191
> View attachment 363192
> View attachment 363193
> ...


They are both so gorgeous!! :Cat

This thread has definitely made me realise that Hector has got kind of fat Everyone elses Orientals look so much slimmer, time to stop letting him eat Inca's leftovers I think!


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

:Kiss


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

BritishBilbo said:


> :Kiss
> <snip>


I still say you should get your name changed to OrientalBilbo.


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

OrientalSlave said:


> I still say you should get your name changed to OrientalBilbo.


Haha it does have a nice ring to it! I've always wanted to change my name as I've always though britishbilbo came off slightly 'Britain first-esque'!!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Some photos of my 5 month old 3kg monster, he's so very naughty he makes Harley look like an angel and that's something I thought I'd never say!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

He has such an imperious expression!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

SbanR said:


> He has such an imperious expression!


I had to google that lol! It describes him very well though. :Cat:Hilarious


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Gorgeous


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh he is just lovely, such expression! I love his eyes! X


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

It's that freckle on his nose :Cat


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

How can you not smile at that gorgeous face xx


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## Burmesemum (Mar 7, 2015)

Beautiful, love Orientals they are my all time favourite must admit!


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

Stunning! Just absolutely beautiful xx


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Gorgeous!! I just love those ears!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Such a handsome boy & the pic of Harley licking Vinnie is just too adorable :Kiss


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Today I received this pic of Merlot, a cinnamon boy I bred, who is celebrating his 16th birthday. Well done Merlot and his owners.









His sire was a grand champion classic tabby so he has all the markings although he is not a tabby. (Note the very moderate type which I think is one reason so many of my cats live long lives.)


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Today I received this pic of Merlot, a cinnamon boy I bred, who is celebrating his 16th birthday. Well done Merlot and his owners.
> View attachment 365863
> 
> 
> His sire was a grand champion classic tabby so he has all the markings although he is not a tabby. (Note the very moderate type which I think is one reason so many of my cats live long lives.)


Happy Birthday Merlot! x


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

@QOTN 
Beautiful color, a very handsome boy.


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## Dumpling (Feb 18, 2014)

QOTN said:


> Today I received this pic of Merlot, a cinnamon boy I bred, who is celebrating his 16th birthday. Well done Merlot and his owners.
> View attachment 365863
> 
> 
> His sire was a grand champion classic tabby so he has all the markings although he is not a tabby. (Note the very moderate type which I think is one reason so many of my cats live long lives.)


Happy birthday Merlot! He's gorgeous and such a lovely colour.

We're thinking of adding another Oriental to our home, I'm not sure if breeders would be ok with letting a kitten going to a home with a toddler (he is ever so gentle with the cats though) so we may have to wait a couple of years!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Dumpling said:


> Happy birthday Merlot! He's gorgeous and such a lovely colour.
> We're thinking of adding another Oriental to our home, I'm not sure if breeders would be ok with letting a kitten going to a home with a toddler (he is ever so gentle with the cats though) so we may have to wait a couple of years!


Some breeders have a family so those kittens come already used to children.

I remember a black boy in my first ever litter born 1990. He went to a couple who had just heard they could not have children. It was almost a miracle because, in a relatively short time, she was pregnant and Othello was like a big brother to her little girl. They were inseparable.


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## Dumpling (Feb 18, 2014)

QOTN said:


> Some breeders have a family so those kittens come already used to children.
> 
> I remember a black boy in my first ever litter born 1990. He went to a couple who had just heard they could not have children. It was almost a miracle because, in a relatively short time, she was pregnant and Othello was like a big brother to her little girl. They were inseparable.


That's so sweet, hopefully I can find a breeder with kittens used to young children.

This might sound a bit daft, but I don't know what the etiquette is when contacting breeders. I know they usually have waiting lists, but we wanted to wait until ideally next spring at the earliest before getting a kitten, would it be odd to email them now even though we wanted to wait until next year?


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Happy Birthday Merlot, aren’t you a handsome boy :Kiss


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Dumpling said:


> That's so sweet, hopefully I can find a breeder with kittens used to young children.
> This might sound a bit daft, but I don't know what the etiquette is when contacting breeders. I know they usually have waiting lists, but we wanted to wait until ideally next spring at the earliest before getting a kitten, would it be odd to email them now even though we wanted to wait until next year?


I don't really know any breeders who have waiting lists. How does anybody know what, if any, kittens they are likely to have? When I was breeding, people occasionally visited just to see my cats and learn about Orientals before taking the plunge so I cannot see any harm in contacting breeders in advance. It gives both sides a chance to check each other out!

Do be careful to ask about testing for PRA and try to find out if there are any of the common problems in the line. (Mediastinal Lymphoma, Amyloidosis and early renal failure are all conditions suspected of having a genetic component but not yet proven.)


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Show day and I'm absolutely shattered!! I'll keep this quick.

Results -

Harley (GrPr Hemlock Harley Quinn)

1x Imperial Certificate
1x Reserve Imperial Certificate
Nothing else - I did not enter her in any side classes and another Hemlock got Best of breed as predicted.
















Eagle eyes may realise there's two reserve Certs on the pen here they had to swap one.









Vinnie (Hemlock Jiggery-Pokery)

1st place & Best of breed in both shows.
Best of variety & best in show Oriental Kitten in the Siamese Cat Club.
























Some other orientals ..









Grand champion and grand premier Hemlock Smooth Operator - Vinnies Uncle And also won Best in Show overall at th Siamese Cat Club.









Grand Champion Hemlock The Outlaw
















Hemlock puttin-on-the-glitz - Harley's half sister.








Hemlock don't mess wiv ma tutu - Vinnies half sister


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Well done! 

Any pics of the tonks?


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Psygon said:


> Well done!
> 
> Any pics of the tonks?


Haha unfortunately not but I bet there will be some posted on other social media sites soon as I saw plenty of photos being taken.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Just my monthly photo post lol!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

BritishBilbo said:


> Just my monthly photo post lol!
> 
> View attachment 368625
> View attachment 368626
> ...


If we had a love button on here I'd press it 
I love the pics of Harley & Vinnie together x


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

I love these two too x


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Vinnie turned 6 months yesterday he's catching up with his sister another 500g and he will be the same weight.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Oh my ... They are both so gorgeous.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

I really hope some day I will meet this pair at a show!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

I agree Harley & Vinnie are just so gorgeous, love them :Kiss
Wonderful pics, the one with Vinnie wrapped in his blanket is just too adorable x


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

These two are just adorable Quite stunning photos!!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Psygon said:


> I really hope some day I will meet this pair at a show!


Hope we get to meet you too, I'm sure you will bump into Vinnie at some point but Harley may go to one more show and then call it quits.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Fab day today in Crewe, Vinnie had another red card day at the Havana & Lilac Show.
His full sister was there too which was nice to see her and his Uncle Smooch was there again too.

He won Best in Show AOC (any other colour) Oriental Kitten. It was a very close call and the BIS was struggling to decide but his Uncle smooch took BIS AOC Overall which I'm super pleased for him as he was made upto Imperial uncle Smooch today.









Waiting for judging.








Black holes. 








I will fit in this tiny bed. 








Full sister. 








Sister and Bro.








Uncle Smooch








Vinnie & Uncle Smooch






















His empty red card day pen.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

I just love this little lad, he's soooo handsome. Well done Vinnie, clever boy xx


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## Trixie1 (Sep 14, 2010)

What a gorgeous family Congratulations Vinnie And of course to you too BB, Not surprised at all, he's one very handsome little chap!x


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Congrats Vinnie!
The sister is very pretty.


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

Congratulations xx well done gorgeous boy ❤ 

Love the drapes around the pens. Didn’t realise they were so pretty and spectacular looking xxx


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Clairabella said:


> Congratulations xx well done gorgeous boy ❤
> 
> Love the drapes around the pens. Didn't realise they were so pretty and spectacular looking xxx


The best in show pens are always dressed in lovely drapes.


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

BritishBilbo said:


> The best in show pens are always dressed in lovely drapes.


They are lovely xx truly beautiful. One day I'm gonna go to a show. I've never been before xx


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Clairabella said:


> They are lovely xx truly beautiful. One day I'm gonna go to a show. I've never been before xx


Defo visit one when you can


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Some best in show stills from the video. :Cat


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

BritishBilbo said:


> Some best in show stills from the video. :Cat
> 
> View attachment 371037
> View attachment 371038
> ...


Aww thank you ❤ It's nice to see some stills of what it's like. I'm really in awe of the drapes they are stunning and really pretty and either the rosettes too, really sets the pens off ❤ Xx

Why do they check the tail in particular? Xx


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Congratulations Vinnie xx
@Clairabella - you should see if you can make it to the Supreme in Birmingham on 27th of October


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

lymorelynn said:


> Congratulations Vinnie xx
> @Clairabella - you should see if you can make it to the Supreme in Birmingham on 27th of October


I'd love to go x I think this year is unlikely to happen but I'd definitely love to go next year. I think Amy would like to go too xx Do you enter for showing @lymorelynn or stewarding? Xx


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Clairabella said:


> Aww thank you ❤ It's nice to see some stills of what it's like. I'm really in awe of the drapes they are stunning and really pretty and either the rosettes too, really sets the pens off ❤ Xx
> 
> Why do they check the tail in particular? Xx


They are checking there is no faults in his tail and that his tail length balances out his body. They don't want a stubby tail on a long bodied cat lol! They will also be looking at the colour too.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Clairabella said:


> I'd love to go x I think this year is unlikely to happen but I'd definitely love to go next year. I think Amy would like to go too xx Do you enter for showing @lymorelynn or stewarding? Xx


Just visiting


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

BritishBilbo said:


> They are checking there is no faults in his tail and that his tail length balances out his body. They don't want a stubby tail on a long bodied cat lol! They will also be looking at the colour too.


Oh yes, that could look odd on a long bodied cat lol. At a guess I thought they may check weight and coat and maybe paws, didn't realise the checks were more detailed than that. I'd genuinely love to go. Can visitors hold the cats? X


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

lymorelynn said:


> Just visiting


And shopping


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Clairabella said:


> Oh yes, that could look odd on a long bodied cat lol. At a guess I thought they may check weight and coat and maybe paws, didn't realise the checks were more detailed than that. I'd genuinely love to go. Can visitors hold the cats? X


Generally no, there's a lot of cross contamintion problems that could potentially cause and most owners wouldn't be comfortable with it. There is some owners however that may let you hold their cats or give them a little fuss but it's all at their discression. 
The supreme show is a good one if you want to get hands on, they have a 'meet the breeds' section where you can have a fuss with a whole selection of different breeds.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

The SOP for oriental tails is the moist strict of all the breeds. Most stick to the veterinary defects list which states 'any fixed deviation of the tail is a withholding fault,' but the oriental standard is 'any abnormality of the bone structure of the tail.'


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

Will each breed have their own specific steward/judge then? 

My Freddy would never pass on anything on the tail front, the end of his is bent. That would be obvious I think in a show, how do judges determine any abnormalities with bone structure then? Is it easy to feel because of there not being much fur of something? X


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

I’m gonna have a nose on YouTube for videos of cat shows xx I want to see more  xx


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

There’s a lovely TICA 2018 video. So many beautiful babies ❤


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Clairabella said:


> Will each breed have their own specific steward/judge then?
> My Freddy would never pass on anything on the tail front, the end of his is bent. That would be obvious I think in a show, how do judges determine any abnormalities with bone structure then? Is it easy to feel because of there not being much fur of something? X


Vinnie is really a Siamese but because the Siamese BAC don't like bicolours he has to be judged as an Oriental.

All the breeds have their own Standard of Points. It is very long describing the perfect cat detailing every feature. (Actually what the BAC decides is perfection.) Then the judges have to be trained to recognise all the good points and faults. At least, that is the idea but I am afraid they tend to do their own thing as soon as they are promoted to full judge whatever the BAC says.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> Vinnie is really a Siamese but because the Siamese BAC don't like bicolours he has to be judged as an Oriental.
> 
> All the breeds have their own Standard of Points. It is very long describing the perfect cat detailing every feature. (Actually what the BAC decides is perfection.) Then the judges have to be trained to recognise all the good points and faults. At least, that is the idea but I am afraid they tend to do their own thing as soon as they are promoted to full judge whatever the BAC says.


Very true often a judges own preference on a particular cat or maybe even the breeder comes into play and judging on the SOP goes out the window. I've witnessed a judge (not at this show), pick Vinnie up one handed, couldnt even be bothered to use both hands, look at Vinnie and say i Just don't like the white and plonked him back in.

Whether that judge liked the pattern of Vinnies white shouldn't of come into play, as long as it was fitting with the SOP. All because this judge hates his breeder.


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Clairabella said:


> Will each breed have their own specific steward/judge then?
> 
> My Freddy would never pass on anything on the tail front, the end of his is bent. That would be obvious I think in a show, how do judges determine any abnormalities with bone structure then? Is it easy to feel because of there not being much fur of something? X


This is the judging for Vinnie in today's BIS if you wanted a better look at what they do. They are judging him against his breed and colours standard of points.




As QOTN said Vinnie is really a Siamese but just to be awkward he has to be judged as an Oriental Shorthair at GCCF shows.


----------



## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

BritishBilbo said:


> This is the judging for Vinnie in today's BIS if you wanted a better look at what they do. They are judging him against his breed and colours standard of points.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh my god that's fab. He's totally beautiful ❤ He doesn't even mind being handled and looked at and checked over to be judged. It's brilliant mind. It must be lovely and such a proud feeling to be able to show your babies and especially when they do so well xx


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

Thank you for the video x


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Well done Vinnie, you’re such a handsome boy, I just love you :Kiss


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Well done Vinne 



Clairabella said:


> There's a lovely TICA 2018 video. So many beautiful babies ❤


TICA shows are open style judging, same as majority of associations outside the UK, so very interactive, you can watch the cats being judged and hear the judges opinions. We use coloured curtains at every show for our pens, colours are generally chosen to suit the cats coat colour or eye colour.
Public are also welcome to interact with the cats, their owners and breeders. Showing is a lot of fun


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

spotty cats said:


> Well done Vinne
> 
> TICA shows are open style judging, same as majority of associations outside the UK, so very interactive, you can watch the cats being judged and hear the judges opinions. We use coloured curtains at every show for our pens, colours are generally chosen to suit the cats coat colour or eye colour.
> Public are also welcome to interact with the cats, their owners and breeders. Showing is a lot of fun


I'm hoping to try and go to a TICA show in the future, its a shame my girl doesn't like going to shows anymore as I would of loved to of taken her out again.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

You could hardly get a bigger difference between cats, Vinnie as a kitten with his life before him and my cats at the end of their lives but we are celebrating another record breaking day with Abs.

*Happy 20th Birthday Mewzishun Party Piece









*
Not forgetting her half brother who was 19 in August. This was taken when we visited him recently. He may not be oriental but neither is Vinnie.

*Mewzishun Loeillet









*


----------



## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Happy birthday Mewzishun Party Piece!:Cat

What a handsome brother you have!


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Summercat said:


> Happy birthday Mewzishun Party Piece!:Cat
> 
> What a handsome brother you have!


I think Lully looks a bruiser! When he was a kitten, some of his littermates were not feeling 100% and I am afraid he got the nickname 'Lully the Bully.'


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

QOTN said:


> You could hardly get a bigger difference between cats, Vinnie as a kitten with his life before him and my cats at the end of their lives but we are celebrating another record breaking day with Abs.
> 
> *Happy 20th Birthday Mewzishun Party Piece
> View attachment 371294
> ...


What a grand old age they've reached - and don't they look good for it! Happy birthday beautiful boys


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2017)

Not nice of Lully to be a bully but he is a beautiful boy


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Psygon said:


> What a grand old age they've reached - and don't they look good for it! Happy birthday beautiful boys


Thank you @Psygon but Abs is my old lady not a boy! She had more than 20 kittens.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

How wonderful - happy 20th birthday Party Piece :Cat


----------



## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

QOTN said:


> Thank you @Psygon but Abs is my old lady not a boy! She had more than 20 kittens.


Oops!!! This is the danger of reading and replying on my phone, more prone to staring at pics than reading everything!

Please give my apologies to Abs, she is a grand old lady


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> You could hardly get a bigger difference between cats, Vinnie as a kitten with his life before him and my cats at the end of their lives but we are celebrating another record breaking day with Abs.
> 
> *Happy 20th Birthday Mewzishun Party Piece
> View attachment 371294
> ...


Happy Birthday!!! 20 and 19 are fabulous ages it's a shame you don't see half as many meezers or Ori's making those ages nowadays.


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

Happy birthdays you pair of absolute stunners ❤❤


----------



## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

QOTN said:


> You could hardly get a bigger difference between cats, Vinnie as a kitten with his life before him and my cats at the end of their lives but we are celebrating another record breaking day with Abs.
> 
> *Happy 20th Birthday Mewzishun Party Piece
> View attachment 371294
> ...


Happy Birthday Party Piece AKA Abs & Lully
You're such a beauty Abs & you have a handsome brother too xx


----------



## Whompingwillow (Feb 21, 2018)

QOTN said:


> You could hardly get a bigger difference between cats, Vinnie as a kitten with his life before him and my cats at the end of their lives but we are celebrating another record breaking day with Abs.
> 
> *Happy 20th Birthday Mewzishun Party Piece
> View attachment 371294
> ...


Happiest birthday beautiful abs!! I am sure you are being spoilt.

I have not met loeillet yet, so hello. He is gorgeous too

Big love to both of them especially abs xxx


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Just my monthly pics.


----------



## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

BritishBilbo said:


> Just my monthly pics.
> View attachment 372892
> View attachment 372893
> View attachment 372894
> ...


Lovely pics, Harley & Vinnie you're both so gorgeous :Kiss:Kiss


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Just my monthly photos lol! I can't remember how old he was or anything when I last posted but he's 7months now between 4.1/4.2kg he's a monster and heavier than his sister and he will be catching bilbo up soon if he doesn't watch out.

I didn't post about the supreme on this thread as it was the most complete and utter waste of a day. Section 6 is becoming a complete and utter pee take. Cats were being withheld left , right and center for issues judges had never ever pulled up before. It was still a good day though I got to see my friends and that made it bareable!









He thinks they're his but most of them are Harley's. 








I always joke and say he has better cheeky than my BSH now ..!








"You can't have him, he's mine".








The Queen herself 








Bigger scratching barrel is needed!






















So grown up looking now!


----------



## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Aww I do love seeing your monthly pics of Harley & Vinnie & reading updates on what they are up to show wise etc.
Your two, @QOTN 's & @lymorelynn 's are such beautiful kitties.
I really do think at some point in my life I will adopt a couple of orientals, 
Such gorgeous cats.

How is Ab's @QOTN she's such a striking, beautiful girl & a great age x


----------



## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

BritishBilbo said:


> Just my monthly photos lol! I can't remember how old he was or anything when I last posted but he's 7months now between 4.1/4.2kg he's a monster and heavier than his sister and he will be catching bilbo up soon if he doesn't watch out.
> 
> I didn't post about the supreme on this thread as it was the most complete and utter waste of a day. Section 6 is becoming a complete and utter pee take. Cats were being withheld left , right and center for issues judges had never ever pulled up before. It was still a good day though I got to see my friends and that made it bareable!
> 
> ...


What an absolute bundle of beautifulness you have there xx they are truly stunning ❤❤


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

A very very rare moment where the OSH & BSH called a truce in my house. Unfortunately it lasted all of 3 minutes but for those 3 minutes I was in my element!


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> I didn't post about the supreme on this thread as it was the most complete and utter waste of a day. Section 6 is becoming a complete and utter pee take. Cats were being withheld left , right and center for issues judges had never ever pulled up before. It was still a good day though I got to see my friends and that made it bareable!


I know what it is like to have a disappointing show. It can often happen when there has been a judge change. However, to be fair, there was not very much withholding considering it was the Supreme, 1 UK grand, one kitten first withheld, a couple of kitten BOBs and an adult 1st. Judges will always have differing opinions. Some judges stick strictly to the SOP and others don't. It is advisable to discover the judges that like the cat in question and stick with them especially if they have a feature which does not conform.

Having said that it cannot be denied there are opposing camps in section 6.


----------



## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

ebonycat said:


> Aww I do love seeing your monthly pics of Harley & Vinnie & reading updates on what they are up to show wise etc.
> Your two, @QOTN 's & @lymorelynn 's are such beautiful kitties.
> I really do think at some point in my life I will adopt a couple of orientals,
> Such gorgeous cats.
> ...


Abs says thank you for the compliment and she says she is doing as well as can be expected. She would like to tell you she is on medication multiple times a day and deserves to live a long life as a reward for making no fuss about it.

I made her pose last month for her birthday but I will try to persuade her again soon.


----------



## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I know what it is like to have a disappointing show. It can often happen when there has been a judge change. However, to be fair, there was not very much withholding considering it was the Supreme, 1 UK grand, one kitten first withheld, a couple of kitten BOBs and an adult 1st. Judges will always have differing opinions. Some judges stick strictly to the SOP and others don't. It is advisable to discover the judges that like the cat in question and stick with them especially if they have a feature which does not conform.
> 
> Having said that it cannot be denied there are opposing camps in section 6.


I didn't have a disappointing show myself I was more than happy with my results and agreed with my judge.

A couple of results for other cats were questionable, I saw some of the most rediculous BOV Judging in my life at the supreme this year.

Section 6 is up in arms at the moment and it all traces back to a few specific people.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> I didn't have a disappointing show myself I was more than happy with my results and agreed with my judge.
> A couple of results for other cats were questionable, I saw some of the most rediculous BOV Judging in my life at the supreme this year.
> Section 6 is up in arms at the moment and it all traces back to a few specific people.


I have read BP's reports on the cats she withheld and they seem perfectly reasonable to me since all had withholding faults except the UK grand and the problem there was coat condition and that matters at that level.

I know the reason the other cat was withheld too since, although I do not belong to FB, I have heard of the complaints from several sources. That was justified as well. (I know other judges who would have made the same decision and have on other cats that I have seen this year.)

BP also judged BOV neuter and surely that was no surprise since the winner has been winning consistently even though his temperament is suspect. I do not know about the other 2 BOV.

I am not saying there is not a problem generally but it is not up to judges to publicly disagree which is what I understand is going on at the moment.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

QOTN said:


> I have read BP's reports on the cats she withheld and they seem perfectly reasonable to me since all had withholding faults except the UK grand and the problem there was coat condition and that matters at that level.
> 
> I know the reason the other cat was withheld too since, although I do not belong to FB, I have heard of the complaints from several sources. That was justified as well. (I know other judges who would have made the same decision and have on other cats that I have seen this year.)
> 
> ...


I don't have a problem with BOV choice he is a very stunning cat but he was so ate up, so stressed and upset she had to clamp him so hard against her to keep him from thrashing, he should never of been picked for his own good. And that showed in BIS when he nearly took the judges eye out and was immediately escorted off stage.

I dunno there's a lot going on in section 6 at the moment, a lot of name calling on both sides. I'm not involved I only go to shows as a hobby but i know losing Barbara as a section 6 judge is a massive loss, I don't put my cat under enough judges because of petty arguements between judges/breeders so losing a judge who I believe to be unbiased is a shame.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

BritishBilbo said:


> I don't have a problem with BOV choice he is a very stunning cat but he was so ate up, so stressed and upset she had to clamp him so hard against her to keep him from thrashing, he should never of been picked for his own good. And that showed in BIS when he nearly took the judges eye out and was immediately escorted off stage. I dunno there's a lot going on in section 6 at the moment, a lot of name calling on both sides. I'm not involved I only go to shows as a hobby but i know losing Barbara as a section 6 judge is a massive loss, I don't put my cat under enough judges because of petty arguements between judges/breeders so losing a judge who I believe to be unbiased is a shame.


Barbara withdrawing is part of a pattern which has been going on for many years in the Siamese section. Unfortunately, since the creation of section 6 it now involves the Orientals as well. In the past plenty of Oriental full judges have had to give up trying to become qualified in Siamese, Pamela Wilding, Jane Francis-Wilson, Janet Tonkinson and now Linda Walpole to name just a few.

I am most concerned that the battles are being fought in public since I believe that could provide grounds for disciplinary action.


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## Clairabella (Nov 8, 2017)

Can I ask what is withholding at shoes? Does it mean disqualified x


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Clairabella said:


> Can I ask what is withholding at shoes? Does it mean disqualified x


It means there is no award, so a certificate may be withheld in an adult or neuter, BOB (Best of Breed) may be withheld in a kitten and some faults have a mandatory first prize withhold. Disqualification only happens if certain show rules are broken.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

QOTN said:


> It means there is no award, so a certificate may be withheld in an adult or neuter, BOB (Best of Breed) may be withheld in a kitten and some faults have a mandatory first prize withhold. Disqualification only happens if certain show rules are broken.


It all still feels like a mystery world to me, even having been to a few shows. I've seen cats at shows who have had little notes out up for 'do not judge' due to the cat being unhappy... And cats who are clearly unhappy being judged. I don't know how unhappy a cat has to be to fall into the do not judge' category.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Psygon said:


> It all still feels like a mystery world to me, even having been to a few shows. I've seen cats at shows who have had little notes out up for 'do not judge' due to the cat being unhappy... And cats who are clearly unhappy being judged. I don't know how unhappy a cat has to be to fall into the do not judge' category.


An owner may request it or a judge who has a narrow escape may ask the show manager. Some owners will keep showing their cat until they injure somebody. A biting certificate is a serious thing so other owners will request the cat is not judged. Some cats simply give warnings so are avoided without harm coming to anybody. It is usually the steward who suffers.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

QOTN said:


> An owner may request it or a judge who has a narrow escape may ask the show manager. Some owners will keep showing their cat until they injure somebody. A biting certificate is a serious thing so other owners will request the cat is not judged. Some cats simply give warnings so are avoided without harm coming to anybody. It is usually the steward who suffers.


That makes it a lot clearer!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> I have read BP's reports on the cats she withheld and they seem perfectly reasonable to me since all had withholding faults except the UK grand and the problem there was coat condition and that matters at that level.
> 
> I know the reason the other cat was withheld too since, although I do not belong to FB, I have heard of the complaints from several sources. That was justified as well. (I know other judges who would have made the same decision and have on other cats that I have seen this year.)
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. I also have read all the reports that are up so far, and all the withholds have a good reason. Additionally a cat doesn't have to have a withholding fault to not get a certificate, it simply has to be not of sufficient quality, in the view of the judge, on the day, for the level it is competing at. A different judge and/or a different day might produce a different result.

Getting a certificate shouldn't become a rubber stamp procedure where there is just one in the class.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

It is worth mentioning that the judge's decision is final. I think people forget that these days.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

ebonycat said:


> How is Ab's @QOTN she's such a striking, beautiful girl & a great age x


@ebonycat I caught Abs enjoying the morning sunshine today. She was asleep and I managed to get the camera before she realised. (No eyes I am afraid but you have your pic at last!)


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

@ebonycat another pic but still no eyes!


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Very regal looking aren’t they! X


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Just beautiful. I am back to work today but that snuggly seat in a sun-puddle is looking verrry tempting!


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Ali71 said:


> Just beautiful. I am back to work today but that snuggly seat in a sun-puddle is looking verrry tempting!


I just thought @Ali71 is working hard :Hilarious:Hilarious


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

ewelsh said:


> I just thought @Ali71 is working hard :Hilarious:Hilarious


You can go off people you know


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Ali71 said:


> You can go off people you know


:Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious You've been caught red handed


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

ewelsh said:


> :Hilarious:Hilarious:Hilarious You've been caught red handed


Lol I'll give myself a good talking-to later.


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## ewelsh (Jan 26, 2011)

Is your OH better? X


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

QOTN said:


> @ebonycat I caught Abs enjoying the morning sunshine today. She was asleep and I managed to get the camera before she realised. (No eyes I am afraid but you have your pic at last!)
> View attachment 386419


Ahh thank you
She's a very beautiful girl x


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Sorry I've been quiet on this thread, a few pics. x


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Oh Harley & Vinnie both of you are so gorgeous, I just love seeing your pictures xx


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## Ali71 (Apr 27, 2014)

Simply stunning!!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Some pics from yesterday


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

BritishBilbo said:


> View attachment 391868
> View attachment 391869
> View attachment 391870
> View attachment 391871
> ...


Oh well done Vinnie, such a handsome boy xx


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Some pics from this weekend just gone, was lovely to meet fellow PF user @SbanR



















































This photo is for you @SbanR as I know you were looking out for his rosettes, they didn't come till late in the day.


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

BritishBilbo said:


> Some pics from this weekend just gone, was lovely to meet fellow PF user @SbanR
> View attachment 394713
> View attachment 394714
> View attachment 394715
> ...


Hello Vinnie :Kiss (& friend, who is he/she?)
Oh wow congratulations, well done handsome boy :Kiss:Kiss
He always looks so relaxed, just taking it all in. I do love seeing his pictures xx


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Oh wow, what a champ Vinnie
Did you see that £500 tree BB. Wasn't it just fabulous!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

BritishBilbo said:


> Some pics from this weekend just gone


Congratulations


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

SbanR said:


> Oh wow, what a champ Vinnie
> Did you see that £500 tree BB. Wasn't it just fabulous!


No I didn't but I'm assuming it was on Crrailiso Cats stand, the ones that look like actual trees? 
I didn't look round much otherwise I would of spent spent spent!!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

ebonycat said:


> Hello Vinnie :Kiss (& friend, who is he/she?)
> Oh wow congratulations, well done handsome boy :Kiss:Kiss
> He always looks so relaxed, just taking it all in. I do love seeing his pictures xx


The other cats are just my fellow Show goers cats I didn't take many photos this show of the other furbabes.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

BritishBilbo said:


> The other cats are just my fellow Show goers cats I didn't take many photos this show of the other furbabes.


I tried to get over to see you and Vinnie but got collared into stewarding to help out a friend. Hopefully I'll see you at another show, are you doing the Bedford or Midland/Central?


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

@BritishBilbo and congratulations on your results! Meant to post that in the previous post


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Rufus15 said:


> I tried to get over to see you and Vinnie but got collared into stewarding to help out a friend. Hopefully I'll see you at another show, are you doing the Bedford or Midland/Central?


Unsure as of yet, I like the venue at midlands and the shops nearby but the judges don't fall to my liking lol. May be worth a dabble though.

Bedford the judges land brill but it's going to be the busiest day after Easter at the cattery so don't think I can get away with having it off.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

BritishBilbo said:


> Unsure as of yet, I like the venue at midlands and the shops nearby but the judges don't fall to my liking lol. May be worth a dabble though.
> 
> Bedford the judges land brill but it's going to be the busiest day after Easter at the cattery so don't think I can get away with having it off.


Let me know, I'll be at both - stewarding and showing - so I'll try and catch up with you


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Whilst I'm here, here's some pics of the golden babe enjoying the sun yesterday.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Happy 1st Birthday to my big boy Vinnie.

Carrying on from the post about his eating to those who saw it he's a lot better now no throwing chip feeders around and loves his chunks of meat at tea time. He will still shred pouches if he has the chance but so will Harley, they are oppurtunists!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Happy birthday Vinnie.
Go on, throw a few chip feeders around to celebrate. Especially pick the nasty one that was so mean to you, bashing your head


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Happy Birthday Vinnie
Enjoy your special day gorgeous boy xx


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Happy birthday Vinnie!


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Have a very happy birthday, Vinnie!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Happy birthday Vinnie x


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Just some pics of the double troubles.

Vinnie no longer eats everything in sight or throws chip feeders around the living room. He seems to be back to his normal self. 
Still has a fetish for pizza crusts though!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

If any of you lovely meezer fans out there have a minute would you spare a vote for the Vinster. He is in the final of the touchfm pet competition.

http://www.101touchfm.co.uk/pettitude/

He is #8 Vinnie.

Many thanks!!


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Voted


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Psygon said:


> Voted


Thank you! Hope we see you around at another show one day!


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

BritishBilbo said:


> Thank you! Hope we see you around at another show one day!


Our show season will be starting very soon :-D and we'll have two with us if all goes to plan!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Psygon said:


> Our show season will be starting very soon :-D and we'll have two with us if all goes to plan!


:Smuggrin:Smuggrin

Yay!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Vinnie doing his thing on Saturday. He is now Grand Premier Hemlock Jiggery-Pokery.























I have a Show curse where I never get all my rosettes... his last grand rosette never appeared & I cba to go find it after the hassle I had finding his missing BOB rosette at another show.





























"No way do I want any kisses"!!!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

We have had some new babies hatch at home in my incubator and it's all very interesting!









"If it's not covered in batter I don't want to know"








Is this one my baby????








Smells like dinner!

Harley is the only one who gets to see the chicks, the others can't be trusted! Vinnie had a quick look whilst they were in the incubator but not since. I don't think he would be nasty he's just so heavy he would likely jump in with them and crush them!


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

BritishBilbo said:


> We have had some new babies hatch at home in my incubator and it's all very interesting!
> 
> View attachment 405134
> 
> ...


Harley is just so sweet! Little chick is gorgeous! Aww well done. ❤xxx


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Hi guys I'm still here I keep popping in every now and then, the cattery keeps me on my toes this time of year.

Harley and Vinnie are still as naughty as ever but also as lovable as ever.

Vinnie weighs a metric tonne which is quite amusing at shows watching the judges nearly put their backs out when they pick him up.

Hope you are all well!


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Just my bi annual photo updates of Vinnie and Harley.
I've been watching vinnies weight now hes been back to shows, he looks brilliant atm, big but toned.
Harley is fat as butter but shes allowed lol. Shes never forgiven vinnie for stealing her show career and decided to scratch his face 6 days before a show. Luckily it was very superficial and small, he still got best of variety neuter so I'll let her off this time!!!
The 2 British shorthairs are fine too, they go outside alot they love the freedom even if it does niggle me. Bilbo went missing for 24 hours and I nearly had a heart attack :Banghead.

Apart from that it's all good.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

Some photos from the supreme of Vinnie doing his thing on the best in show stage.
I still cant quite believe he was picked as Bov section 6 neuter nevermind supreme neuter. He had never showed as well as he did at the supreme before, talk about pulling it out the bag when it counted!!

Having his breeder turned good friend on stage with me made it extra special. Plus the kitten was related to my Harley, it was like having the family over!


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

He's such a fabulous boy and such a worthy winner.
Congratulations Vinnie and @BritishBilbo


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

Such a handsome boy & he looks so calm. Just soaking up the atmosphere.
Congratulations again to you & of course to Vinnie xx


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## Willow_Warren (Feb 12, 2018)

He really does look lovely and not phased at all

Hannah


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## Soozi (Jun 28, 2013)

BritishBilbo said:


> Some photos from the supreme of Vinnie doing his thing on the best in show stage.
> I still cant quite believe he was picked as Bov section 6 neuter nevermind supreme neuter. He had never showed as well as he did at the supreme before, talk about pulling it out the bag when it counted!!
> 
> Having his breeder turned good friend on stage with me made it extra special. Plus the kitten was related to my Harley, it was like having the family over!
> ...


He's absolutely gorgeous! Not surprised he won. xxx


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

It occurred to me I've not posted a photo of Sadie, my chocolate & white girl. She has a hot date with Basil early next year... I went on holiday to Germany last month and she looks like she wanted to come with me.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> It occurred to me I've not posted a photo of Sadie, my chocolate & white girl. She has a hot date with Basil early next year... I went on holiday to Germany last month and she looks like she wanted to come with me.
> 
> View attachment 421296


Oh my - those ears :-D

She is adorable!


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## ebonycat (May 15, 2016)

OrientalSlave said:


> It occurred to me I've not posted a photo of Sadie, my chocolate & white girl. She has a hot date with Basil early next year... I went on holiday to Germany last month and she looks like she wanted to come with me.
> 
> View attachment 421296


She's beautiful, those ears  just stunning x


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## FletchNo1 (Aug 18, 2019)

OrientalSlave said:


> I have a wonderful black boy, Max. He will be 9 very soon.
> 
> View attachment 268606


How stunning is he!! I have two Meezers and am seriously considering getting a black Oriental :-


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

FletchNo1 said:


> How stunning is he!! I have two Meezers and am seriously considering getting a black Oriental :-


Gosh that was an old post - he's about 12 1/2 now! And thanks, he is stunning, black Orientals are wonderful.


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