# Horse nipping/begging!



## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Is there any way to prevent this while still being able to feed treats on a regular basis?


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

If your horse is doing this then giving it a treat is rewarding the behavior and will make it worse, also sounds like your horse does not respect your personal space, so could lead to biting and aggression if you don't nip it in the bud now! Stop giving treats from your hand, giving treats can actually be pretty dangerous especially when you have multiple horses in a field as fights can break out and you get caught in the middle, I know someone who got kicked in the head by a horse fighting another when they came zooming up to the guy for treats - he didn't live so please be careful! I never give my lot treats except after maybe a good work - they get a carrot, but they don't expect it and aren't looking for it - if they were they wouldn't get one! Otherwise I put treats either in their feed or hide them in their hay or round their stable to give them something to do if they are in - a good scratch and a verbal praise is all that's needed to let them know they've done something right.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

AlexArt said:


> If your horse is doing this then giving it a treat is rewarding the behavior and will make it worse, also *sounds like your horse does not respect your personal space*, so could lead to biting and aggression if you don't nip it in the bud now! Stop giving treats from your hand, giving treats can actually be pretty dangerous especially when you have multiple horses in a field as fights can break out and you get caught in the middle, I know someone who got kicked in the head by a horse fighting another when they came zooming up to the guy for treats - he didn't live so please be careful! I never give my lot treats except after maybe a good work - they get a carrot, but they don't expect it and aren't looking for it - if they were they wouldn't get one! Otherwise I put treats either in their feed or hide them in their hay or round their stable to give them something to do if they are in - a good scratch and a verbal praise is all that's needed to let them know they've done something right.


Uhm, what part of my post sounds like that? I only asked about nipping and begging and didn't give any other informations, don't really think it's fair to make assumptions like that. I often give them treats when they're in a field and they have never ever shown any aggresion towards each other or me, in fact they don't even come near me - I am the one who walks up to them. I also never give them treats after they start begging and nipping. It happens when they're each in their own stable, I give them a treat and as soon as they get it and see me walking up to another horse they start begging. Maybe that's the mistake I'm doing, as they can see me giving treats to the other one and they get jealous.


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## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

You stated the horse nips and begs - to nip means it has to invade, or tries to invade your space - a horse would not do this if it had manners and understood personal boundaries, it's not a personal attack on you so I don't know why you are so defensive, you asked a question on a forum and you got an answer that was obviously not what you wanted to hear - it's just a fact that's all! 
Begging is a behavior that stems from being rewarded for it - ie. you give them a treat, they can't physically get the food because of the stable door so they have only behavior to try, it is not a natural behavior and is not jealosy - that is a human emotion, none of mine ever beg or nip because they don't get rewarded for that specific behavior and they understand boundries from day one. 
I have stallions so would not want that kind of dangerous behavior, but I have seen it plenty of times with visiting mares you can always tell the ones that have had treats as they often walk all over their owners or raid pockets - we have to be extra careful of these horses when in a herd! The fact your horses only do the behavior in the stable is neither here nor there - they don't do it YET out in the field, so isn't it better to get rid of the behavior totally than keep your fingers crossed they don't start to do it in the field?? - it isn't a vital thing to give them treats - it is only really for our emotional benefit it is not essential, so why not give them a good scratch in the field instead?

Also from a health and safety point of view if you went on holiday and someone else was looking after your horses or the public/friend etc was on your yard and suddenly a horse grabs them when they go to try and nip and do damage you could be in trouble. I have a friend that runs a livery yard and there was a lady on there that fed her stallion treats and he got into the habit of lunging at passers by for food, a new groom who didn't know him walked upto him and he grabbed her by the chest - very nasty injury and she was in hospital for a good bit, but the groom sued the stallion owner for failing to put signs up and guards to stop the horse reaching people - an extreme example but this was a lovely pet which had a behavior that was not stopped early and could so easily have done.

Giving treats to horses in a herd is a risk you may be happy to take - it only takes one kick from out of the blue - I'm sure the guy who had the top of his head taken off by his beloved pets never thought it would happen to him either - wasn't very nice for his wife to find him though and the horses were pts even though it wasn't their fault. If you are going to do it in a herd environment then a body protector and hat are a must have, it doesn't matter how well you know a horse or group it is still dangerous, they are big powerful animals and having a fragile person caught up in an agrgument between horses, I'm not talking about aggression here just a disagreement, with kicks flying that wouldn't do any damage to a horse but can certainly break our bones, and as children often read these posts they need to be made aware of that danger!!


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

It's not that I didn't want to hear the answer, I just don't think it's fair to make assumptions, like I said. Actually, I didn't even state that the horse nips in my first post - I asked if there's a way to prevent this while still being able to give treats to horses, it could just be a hypothetical question for that matter. What you also assumed (wrongly) is that these are my horses - I don't and have never owned a horse, although I wish to someday. I have only recently started dealing with these horses who don't get much human contact other than being fed and trained for trotting races. 
Admittedly I should've clarified what I meant by nipping. None of them has actually ever nipped at me, I guess to put it correctly I should say they "nip the air" while begging.
Also of course you are free to give whatever answer and advice you want since this is a public forum, but honestly I was looking for something else than just "stop doing it". I know of people who do feed treats to their horses regularly with no problem, so I was more looking to find out on how to go about that. But your opinion is also appreciated.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

I train my horses (and horses I have care of) using treats as one of the rewards. My horses were first taught a behaviour incompatible with mugging as a priority. I use the food rewards for the horses whether I'm training one horse, or more than one horse and sometimes in the field.

But, these are my horses and horses I am responsible for and it's a chosen training method.

Anyone wanting to offer my horses treats would have to ask me first, so that I can give them instruction on how and when to treat and also on what treats are suitable.

One of the horses is on a very strictly controlled diet and just one or two carrots could cause him to suffer a low grade laminitis attack, so something that seems innocuous and just friendly can cause him real problems.

So if the horses aren't your own and you want to offer food treats to someone else's horses, it's best to ask the owners about it I think.

If the horses are your own and you want to hand feed treats in a safe way, I would suggest that you look at clicker training where horses are taught to be polite about food treats, even if you don't take up actual clicker training.


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## HeartofClass (Jan 2, 2012)

Elles said:


> So if the horses aren't your own and you want to offer food treats to someone else's horses, it's best to ask the owners about it I think.
> 
> If the horses are your own and you want to hand feed treats in a safe way, I would suggest that you look at clicker training where horses are taught to be polite about food treats, even if you don't take up actual clicker training.


I would never even touch someone else's horses without their permission; I am
working with these horses on behalf of their owner who I've recently started helping at his ranch. The horses are being used for trotting races (and have won many medals), the owner takes care of them greatly as in feeds them, cleans their stables, offers veterinary care, trains them and loves them but he isn't the type of a person to try to connect with them and really doesn't have much time left in his daily life to spend quality time just socializing with them, so some of them have somewhat bad manners but not overly so. Recently though he was given a shetland pony whose owner passed away, this pony is not used for training so he's only given basic care and doesn't even get in the field with other horses as he's too afraid of them. Now this pony appears to be badly socialized, is very skittish and often tries to bite - in a way as if he's constantly looking for treats. I could barely even groom him without him freaking out every now and then and constantly trying to bite the brushes, my shoes, etc. Therefore I haven't given this pony any treats for the past two weeks I've known him but it doesn't appear to have gotten any better, me not being an experienced horse owner I don't know if there's anything else I can do other than wait, no horses I've worked with before have ever been like this.

About clicker training, that's an interesting idea I've never thought of clicker training horses before, but I do it with my dog and three cats, are the basics with horses the same?


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Similar, of course the concept is the same, but you want the horse to move away, or keep away for his treat, rather than luring him with it. People tend to use target training initially and use a target held as a lure, rather than a treat if they want to lure something.

This video, although quite basic and I think Sophia moves in too close at times, gives a very basic idea.

Stallion Training | drsophiayin.com - YouTube

As does this one:

Clicker Training Teaching Flexion www.clickhorse.info - YouTube

Note that both handlers treat the horse away from them. Teaching the horse that he only receives a treat after a click and well away from the handler's body, teaches him not to mug for treats. If the horse is already mugging for treats, you can start with target training from outside the stable door. If the horse has already learned to nip, you can offer the treat from higher up so he has to raise his head high to get the treat, as then he's unable to nip you, or you can throw the treats onto the floor, or into a bucket and build up from there.

If you were interested in clicker training horses as well as dogs/cats it's worth doing some research first, as there are subtle differences with what you'd want to teach and how you'd operate to keep yourself safe.

It may be that the pony's owner doesn't want you to clicker train him though.


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## Zayna (Apr 19, 2009)

I only give my mare treats after exercise when I'm stretching her out.. occasionally i might stop by the field and give her and her field buddy an apple or carrot each but i dont make a habit of it.


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## jessegee (Mar 21, 2011)

Dont feed treats from your hand , simple as that

If you must feed treats put them on the ground

jessegee


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## spottedhorse (Mar 13, 2012)

I don't feed treats, never felt the need as they have a sufficient diet. But if I did they would go on the floor and never from the hand.


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