# Going to view the puppies...



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

On 17th November! 
Can`t wait to see them! 
There will be loooooads of pictures


----------



## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

ooo exciting! What breed?
Im collecting my puppy on the 17th November


----------



## Emmastace (Feb 11, 2011)

Wooohoooo......really excited for you. Are you still looking at Westies?


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

how exciting, what breed of puppy are you having ?


----------



## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

You lucky person! How exciting. What is the breed? Is it a boy or a girl? Have you thought of a name??


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

For some reason I contacted the lady about the westies for a viewing date and she just didn`t reply and never answered any calls so my parents have found Westie X Pappilon puppies that are £600 for sale, not really ideal but both parents are health checked and have papers and the lady is lovely so I can`t really complain could of been worse and bought from a puppy farmer. This lady loves the puppies very much and they come with a lifetime of support too. I`m getting a little boy, Logan  I know some of you won`t agree with it, but both parents are health checked and that has been confirmed so I feel confident
Here is one of the puppies


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

There are more then one breeder of westies surely!

Gave up quick on the breeders huh?


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> There are more then one breeder of westies surely!
> 
> Gave up quick on the breeders huh?


This is NOT my descion, I`m 14 year old kid do you think I have control over this?
Sure its easy for you to say but your not a kid who doesn`t have control on what puppy my parents decide on
But there is nothing wrong with cross breeds, please don`t turn this into a purebred puppies vs crossbreed puppies thread,


----------



## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

I understand you have no choice in the matter but it might be worth pointing out to your parents that health checks are not the same as health tests.

£600 is _very_ expensive for a crossbreed that may not even have health tested parents.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> This is NOT my descion, I`m 14 year old kid do you think I have control over this?
> Sure its easy for you to say but your not a kid who doesn`t have control on what puppy my parents decide on
> But there is nothing wrong with cross breeds, please don`t turn this into a purebred puppies vs crossbreed puppies thread,


Um 14 is not a kid per se as you could have a child of your own.

My mother researched her breed and presented the breeder to her parents at 11.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

WeedySeaDragon said:


> I understand you have no choice in the matter but it might be worth pointing out to your parents that health checks are not the same as health tests.
> 
> £600 is _very_ expensive for a crossbreed that may not even have health tested parents.


I have pointed it out and they know but we will confirm wether health tests have been done on 17th November  I`m pretty sure they are health tested though


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Um 14 is not a kid per se as you could have a child of your own.
> 
> My mother researched her breed and presented the breeder to her parents at 11.


A child of my own at 14? No thank you. Well my parents have decided on this puppy end of can you just not let me be excited? Is it a crime to get a cross breed puppy?


----------



## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

New Puppy Mum said:


> This is NOT my descion, I`m 14 year old kid do you think I have control over this?
> Sure its easy for you to say but your not a kid who doesn`t have control on what puppy my parents decide on
> But there is nothing wrong with cross breeds, please don`t turn this into a purebred puppies vs crossbreed puppies thread,


Very few people are against crossbreeds on this forum, as long as the breeders are ethical 

Emma probably didn't realised you were 14. Obviously, it's your parents decision in that case. One thing though, 'health checked' is not the same as 'health tested' - health tests are genetic tests available for, in this case, both westies and pappies, before the mating is carried out. Health checks are just the vet looking over the dog. Maybe check with your parents on this? It would be very sad to get a pup that then suffered because of careless breeding. It's a lot of money to give someone who isn't doing the best by their dogs.

Ultimately though, obviously it's your parents decision though.

EDITED TO ADD: Why would they confirm if health tests have been done on the date you are going to collect? If the health tests were carried out before mating then they'd know now.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Alice Childress said:


> Very few people are against crossbreeds on this forum, as long as the breeders are ethical
> 
> Emma probably didn't realised you were 14. Obviously, it's your parents decision in that case. One thing though, 'health checked' is not the same as 'health tested' - health tests are genetic tests available for, in this case, both westies and pappies, before the mating is carried out. Health checks are just the vet looking over the dog. Maybe check with your parents on this? It would be very sad to get a pup that then suffered because of careless breeding. It's a lot of money to give someone who isn't doing the best by their dogs.
> 
> Ultimately though, obviously it's your parents decision though.


Yes I know, I`m pretty sure they are health tested, but I will confirm that.

ETA: No idea, as I said I`m not in control of this my parents have told me all this


----------



## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

New Puppy Mum said:


> Yes I know, I`m pretty sure they are health tested, but I will confirm that.
> 
> ETA: No idea, as I said I`m not in control of this my parents have told me all this


I think if the breeder is saying they'll confirm if they've been health tested on the day you are going to collect, then it's quite probable that your breeder themselves doesn't know the difference between health tests and health checks and hence is saying that your pup will have been health _checked_ by the time you collect him.

Maybe you could suggest to your parents that they should come on here and ask about the reasons health testing and going to an ethical breeder is so important themselves, that way they could make up their own minds once they have all the information. It would be a shame for them to make a mistake.

Just a thought.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> A child of my own at 14? No thank you. Well my parents have decided on this puppy end of can you just not let me be excited? Is it a crime to get a cross breed puppy?


I meant there are many who are parents at that age, I got my blue boy billy at 10 and he was my decision as at first I was told no to blue merles.

Why this one? A westie would cost the same though?

And why their decision if like you said you contacted a westie breeder, why not them? I suppose end of means there will be no going back even if there are no health tests and even if it's a puppy farm etc.

No worries to me. Have fun with it all, I can't argue with a 14 year old!!


----------



## WeedySeaDragon (Oct 7, 2012)

New Puppy Mum said:


> But there is nothing wrong with cross breeds, please don`t turn this into a purebred puppies vs crossbreed puppies thread,


I don't think many people here are vehemently anti crossbreeds. What people are against is unethical breeding practices and unfortunately the majority of people who breed crossbreeds (especially crosses of two small, cute and fluffy breeds) are not doing it in an ethical way.

If the parents are KC registered it may be possible to look up their health test results on the KC website, though I believe the breeder has to voluntarily submit them so they may not be there. You can do that here.

It's important to see the actual paperwork relating to the health tests of each dogs rather than relying on the breeder telling you. They should have the paperwork and be happy for you and your parents to look at it before seeing the puppies.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> I meant there are many who are parents at that age, I got my blue boy billy at 10 and he was my decision as at first I was told no to blue merles.
> 
> Why this one? A westie would cost the same though?
> 
> ...


I don`t know they want this one


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> For some reason I contacted the lady about the westies for a viewing date and she just didn`t reply and never answered any calls so my parents have found Westie X Pappilon puppies that are £600 for sale, *not really ideal *but both parents are health checked and have papers and the lady is lovely so I can`t really complain could of been worse and bought from a puppy farmer. This lady loves the puppies very much and they come with a lifetime of support too. I`m getting a little boy, Logan  I know some of you won`t agree with it, but both parents are health checked and that has been confirmed so I feel confident
> Here is one of the puppies


What is it exactly you dont think is Ideal?

I have nothing against cross breeds for obvious reasons  But would NEVER EVER hand over £600 to a 'breeder' I thought was not really ideal.

Why dont you show your mum some of the advice on this thread? Explain to them the difference between health checked and health tested? Really show them how repsponsible you are.

£600 is alot of money.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

New Puppy Mum said:


> A child of my own at 14? No thank you. Well my parents have decided on this puppy end of can you just not let me be excited? Is it a crime to get a cross breed puppy?


Ha ha ha - couldn't agree more! My oldest 'child' is 33 and still no kids, neither the other's - 24 - 26 -30 - don't want any either. Imagine that, 14 and a parent - eeerrgghh! :crying:

Lovely puppy, we need lots of pics though so don't forget. Only thing I would say is £600 is expensive, I charged that and less for KC regd Malamutes because they hadn't come from fully health tested parents, only dad was scored at the time. I think with what we spend on i phones/pads etc. money for a lifelong friend has never been an issue for me, priceless in my opinion as long as it's healthy. Make sure your parents are fully aware what they're getting into, you know from on here what to look for. In the end the decision is theirs and I bet that pup will be proper spoiled.

Looking forward to seeing how the cross turns out, one thing I love about crosses is you don't know what they'll look like and as they grow they continue to change. Teebs is a jack x chi (put the x in so as not to be controversial, lol) and he started off all smooth coated and smart and now at nearly two he is all wiry and course, little stunner though and so much fun. Shouldn't say it but he's my second best boy, I wish we had bought the other two sometimes, bet it would have been a right handful, lol!


----------



## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

at the end of the day none of these animals are actually hers shes 14 years old! the decision lies with her parents. up to them if they do the proper checks. its them paying for it.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> What is it exactly you dont think is Ideal?
> 
> I have nothing against cross breeds for obvious reasons  But would NEVER EVER hand over £600 to a 'breeder' I thought was not really ideal.
> 
> ...


I didn`t mean the breeder isn`t ideal, I meant it wasn`t ideal that the westie breeder didn`t get in touch and left us with pretty much no choice but to look for another puppy. She doesn`t want to know, as much as I would like her to.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> I didn`t mean the breeder isn`t ideal, I meant it wasn`t ideal that the westie breeder didn`t get in touch and left us with pretty much no choice but to look for another puppy. She doesn`t want to know, as much as I would like her to.


One breeder didn't get in touch, not the end of the world.

Ring the breed club they will give you a whole list of other options. Because one didn't ring back does not mean she left you with no other option!!!


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> One breeder didn't get in touch, not the end of the world.
> 
> Ring the breed club they will give you a whole list of other options. Because one didn't ring back does not mean she left you with no other option!!!


Sorry I do appreciate your concern but it seems like my parents mind is made up


----------



## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

this is a 14 yr old child!!! who realisticly has no say in what breed they have! her mum n dad obviously aint bothered about getting a westie otherwise they would wait until a decent breeder comes along.


----------



## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

just be excited about getting your new pup, if your mum n dad are happy to pay out £600 happy days!  he looks well cute though is this an early x mas present? x


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> just be excited about getting your new pup, if your mum n dad are happy to pay out £600 happy days!  he looks well cute though is this an early x mas present? x


Yes it is, he`s coming home on 16th December


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I looked on champdogs for you and only one male pup that was a change of mind decision, I didn't realise just how few westies there would be, wrong time of year I suppose. There are breeders though who may have an impending litter if you still want a westie, here's the link: West Highland White Terrier Breeders - Champdogs ®

If your parents are set on the little one you're going to see then I think that's who they'll go with. What sex are you choosing? Any names you all like so far? 

ETA - just seen it's a boy - good I LOVE boys, true little babies all their lives, even my big baby Flynn - 60kgs of pure puppyness!


----------



## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

New Puppy Mum said:


> Yes it is, he`s coming home on 16th December


rrrr how exciting, n what a wicked x mas present. all i have to look forward too is new socks and pjs  getting older is really quite rubbish lol


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Malmum said:


> I looked on champdogs for you and only one male pup that was a change of mind decision, I didn't realise just how few westies there would be, wrong time of year I suppose. There are breeders though who may have an impending litter if you still want a westie, here's the link: West Highland White Terrier Breeders - Champdogs ®
> 
> If your parents are set on the little one you're going to see then I think that's who they'll go with. What sex are you choosing? Any names you all like so far?


A little boy and we have liked so far
Logan
Kaiser
Bailey


----------



## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

New Puppy Mum said:


> A little boy and we have liked so far
> Logan
> Kaiser
> Bailey


if/when i have a baby if its a boy i wanna call him logan wicked name


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

dexter12 said:


> rrrr how exciting, n what a wicked x mas present. all i have to look forward too is new socks and pjs  getting older is really quite rubbish lol


Lol, I expect that is whats in store on actual Xmas day lol


----------



## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

New Puppy Mum said:


> Lol, I expect that is whats in store on actual Xmas day lol


lol you may need new socks if your lil pup is like mine and loves to chew socks lol


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Think I like Kaiser - as in Kaiser Chiefs, loved them, lol!


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> I don`t know they want this one





New Puppy Mum said:


> Sorry I do appreciate your concern but it seems like my parents mind is made up


Bit of conflicting info there!

West Highland White Terrier puppies for sale in All Areas

Lots and lots of westie pups all over the country.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Bit of conflicting info there!
> 
> West Highland White Terrier puppies for sale in All Areas
> 
> Lots and lots of westie pups all over the country.


We can`t travel far and this puppy is very local. Sorry, I really do see where you are coming from.


----------



## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

I think people are a bit concerned that you are paying so much for a crossbreed not trying to diss the pup or your enjoyment of it enjoy the puppy stages when your little one arrives.


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Not read the whole thread - can imagine what's been said 

1st congratulations  he is a cutie :001_tt1:

2nd ultimately it is your parents decision so yes you can present information, talk to them, show them your research but if they want to buy this puppy then that's up to them.

3rd the only puppies in my area less than £500 are lurchers, JRT (or similar) and Staffies (and their crosses) so I don't think it's too much money

4th if you and your parents are happy with the breeder and how they care for their animals then that's your choice to make (note that health tests are very different from health checks)

5th ENJOY  sign up for puppy classes, and give your puppy the best start by looking at the new owner section on this site » New Owners The Puppy Plan

6th Socks for Christmas will probably be a welcome present after the little terror has chewed through all the toes in yours


----------



## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Fleur said:


> Not read the whole thread - can imagine what's been said
> 
> 1st congratulations  he is a cutie :001_tt1:
> 
> ...


This ^ 

Plus, I have seen by your posts how dedicated and mature you are so I'm sure you wouldn't condone buying from a puppy farmer.

Congratulations


----------



## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm happy and excited for you. I got my first family dog when I was around 3 and then another at 16....I was so excited and loved them dearly! And both were westies 

Love all the names. Its going to be very hard choosing just one!


----------



## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

Aw thats so exciting! I remember back in 1992 (I was 11) my parents decided to get two puppies as we'd just lost our first Yorkie Charlie Brown. We found a breeder that was expecting puppies and so we were quite involved with them before day 1. They told us when they were born and we went to see them and got to snuggle all three of them. Two boys and a girl. We took the two boys. We visited quite a bit over the weeks and it was so lovely.

Congratulations on your new baby/babies!


----------



## andrea84 (Aug 16, 2012)

aww,how exciting  must post lots of pics and great names


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> For some reason I contacted the lady about the westies for a viewing date and she just didn`t reply and never answered any calls so my parents have found Westie X Pappilon puppies that are £600 for sale, not really ideal but both parents are health checked and have papers and the lady is lovely so I can`t really complain could of been worse and bought from a puppy farmer. This lady loves the puppies very much and they come with a lifetime of support too. I`m getting a little boy, Logan  I know some of you won`t agree with it, but both parents are health checked and that has been confirmed so I feel confident
> Here is one of the puppies


So that isn't one of the pups, it is from the mothers last litter of the same.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> So that isn't one of the pups, it is from the mothers last litter of the same.


I don`t know, my parents just gave me that photo so I thought I would share it. photos of the actual pup will be on 17th November. I think it would be best for this thread to die a natural death...


----------



## Mia123 (Aug 25, 2012)

leave her alone! i'm almost 13 myself and i would be very excited getting a puppy! its fine to get a cross breed and very sensible to go and see them first. then she and her parents'll be able able to ask more questions! just because you go and see them doesn't mean you're going to buy them. good luck with the new puppy and just make sure the puppy is healthy and happy! btw at 14 you still can't make all the decidions you want!


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

You're obviously a friend, and whilst I applaud your post because you obviously support your friend, in years to come you may understand why people are being negative.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> You're obviously a friend, and whilst I applaud your post because you obviously support your friend, in years to come you may understand why people are being negative.


I have never heard of Mia123 before she commented on this thread but she is obviously just kind hearted


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> I don`t know, my parents just gave me that photo so I thought I would share it. photos of the actual pup will be on 17th November. I think it would be best for this thread to die a natural death...


Surely it is wrong that people on a forum know more about this puppy ie, the price, the fact that it isn't one from the litter etc then you and your parents do.

TBH I think you should listen to advice given as it could save heartache for yourself in the short and long term.
Read the threads about people who have got a puppy from a puppy farm and some of them loosing them to parvo etc.

There are more then the two options f one breeder not responding to a call and this litter being the only other option!


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

New Puppy Mum said:


> I have never heard of Mia123 before she commented on this thread but she is obviously just kind hearted


Well maybe she may be a new friend then, so at least one good thing may come of this friend.

I can't agree with your parents buying this puppy, I think it's sad they are willing to support such a poor breeder, but understand there's not an awful lot you can do as a 14 year old. Of course I would have stamped up and down the stairs for at least a fortnight at your age and perhaps taken a few bits of plaster off the walls slamming doors, my word am I glad I am not a teenager, and very much past being a teenager!


----------



## Labrador Laura (Sep 12, 2010)

Before i go ahead and say something as i don't want to offend, are you from Crewe where the pup has been bred?


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

The OP is 14 give her a break !!


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> Surely it is wrong that people on a forum know more about this puppy ie, the price, the fact that it isn't one from the litter etc then you and your parents do.
> 
> TBH I think you should listen to advice given as it could save heartache for yourself in the short and long term.
> Read the threads about people who have got a puppy from a puppy farm and some of them loosing them to parvo etc.
> ...


Well sorry for not knowing everything about my puppy when I`ve not even met it and exactly that is who you are; people on a forum. You do not know me or my situation so how do you know its a puppy farm! It well could be, I personally think its a hobby breeder but none of us will know until I go and view the puppies.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Labrador Laura said:


> Before i go ahead and say something as i don't want to offend, are you from Crewe where the pup has been bred?


No I am not


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> Well sorry for not knowing everything about my puppy when I`ve not even met it and exactly that is who you are; people on a forum. You do not know me or my situation so how do you know its a puppy farm! It well could be, I personally think its a hobby breeder but none of us will know until I go and view the puppies.


I didn't say it was a puppy farm, I am just giving examples of things that have happened when people get from breeders such as this.

I don't know everything about your puppy but that is too big for one and on the ad it came from it says from the mothers last litter.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Tell us how it goes nearer the date NewPupMum. 
At fourteen you don't have that much control, because although you are expected to act mature, you are still treated like a young child at times. 
Either way I hope everything turns out well. 

Like you said, we are people on a forum, What we give is opinion, which by no means make us 'right'.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> I didn't say it was a puppy farm, I am just giving examples of things that have happened when people get from breeders such as this.
> 
> I don't know everything about your puppy but that is too big for one and on the ad it came from it says from the mothers last litter.


Okay, I don`t want to argue or hold a grudge against anyone on this forum and I understand you have read the ad and good that I know that information, but I`m viewing this puppy not necessarily buying it.


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Mia123 said:


> leave her alone! i'm almost 13 myself and i would be very excited getting a puppy! its fine to get a cross breed and very sensible to go and see them first. then she and her parents'll be able able to ask more questions! just because you go and see them doesn't mean you're going to buy them. good luck with the new puppy and just make sure the puppy is healthy and happy! btw at 14 you still can't make all the decidions you want!


No one is being horrible -People are trying to help the OP.

Where has anyone said its wrong to have a X breed? I have a X Breed and love her dearly. But a breeder who cant even be bothered to put a picture of the current litter, varies the price from £600 odd to £200 odd has ot to answer from. Plus if the picture is from the previous litter how many un health tested mongrel litters is this 'breeder' throwing into the world.

Your right at 14 you cant make decisions for yourself which is why I sincerely hope 'new puppy mum' speaks to her parents about the concerns raised.

To much doesnt add up - I would run a mile with my hard earnt £600.

New puppy mum - can you show these threads to your parents? I honestly would not want to pay for a pup with an advert like that. It sounds like your resonsible and grown up for your age and deep down do understand the concerns raised.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

LurcherOwner said:


> Tell us how it goes nearer the date NewPupMum.
> At fourteen you don't have that much control, because although you are expected to act mature, you are still treated like a young child at times.
> Either way I hope everything turns out well.
> 
> Like you said, we are people on a forum, What we give is opinion, which by no means make us 'right'.


I will do, and I will still post pics because if some people on here don`t want to know they don`t have to look


----------



## Labrador Laura (Sep 12, 2010)

New Puppy Mum said:


> No I am not


Good, all i want to say is just be carefull. I live 5-10mins from the Crewe area and i'm sorry to say it's not at all nice including some of the people. I don't want to judge a place and the people but it's just one of those places you want to drive through quickly. (Sorry if anyone lives in Crewe, but it's not my cup of tea)

But best of luck with picking your puppy, Wish my parents got me a dog when i was 14years old. I'm 21 now and still begging for my Boxer puppy  Of course i have Mr.Mylo but i can't wait to start looking for Dog number 2 but we have to move house first


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> No one is being horrible -People are trying to help the OP.
> 
> Where has anyone said its wrong to have a X breed? I have a X Breed and love her dearly. But a breeder who cant even be bothered to put a picture of the current litter, varies the price from £60 odd to £200 odd has ot to answer from. Plus if the picture is from the previous litter how many un health tested mongrel litters is this 'breeder' throwing into the world.
> 
> ...


I will speak to my parents of course but I don`t think I can make assumptions without seeing the pups


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Labrador Laura said:


> Good, all i want to say is just be carefull. I live 5-10mins from the Crewe area and i'm sorry to say it's not at all nice including some of the people. I don't want to judge a place and the people but it's just one of those places you want to drive through quickly. (Sorry if anyone lives in Crewe, but it's not my cup of tea)
> 
> But best of luck with picking your puppy, Wish my parents got me a dog when i was 14years old. I'm 21 now and still begging for my Boxer puppy  Of course i have Mr.Mylo but i can't wait to start looking for Dog number 2 but we have to move house first


Okay thanks, I live about 15 minutes from there


----------



## Mia123 (Aug 25, 2012)

i don't want to be included in any of this, and as new puppy mum has said i have never heard of her and she has never heard of me but thank you! shall we just stop this post forget the names and start over? i'm sure her parents know what their doing. i know exactly that it may be dangerous to buy a crossbreed that may have been bred carelessly, and if they haven't got the papers they do not have any proof, so infact i do know a bit about this subject. its our job on this forum to advise people but not to tell them what to do. thank you and sorry if i caused any offence but i do not want to be included in this and i think we should just stop this thread and new puppy mum should go to a vet to ask for info that you can trust! they will be helpfull. thanks


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> I will speak to my parents of course but I don`t think I can make assumptions without seeing the pups


Be warned even pups from the most unethical breeders are cute and fluffy 

Personally I woudnt even consider the litter based on the advert info alone. I mean is it really to much hassle to take a photo of the actually puppies which are for sale? Is the breeder providing 4 weeks free insurance? If i was paying £600 for a pup i would expect that. Gives you time to take out a policy of your choice.

Im sorry I dont normally get involved in these types of threads but with thw amount your prents are prepared to spend you really can afford the best.


----------



## Labrador Laura (Sep 12, 2010)

New Puppy Mum said:


> Okay thanks, I live about 15 minutes from there


Your not to far from me then


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

At 14 you have voice. You don't have control over what your parents do, but you are old enough to talk sensibly and rationally about issues. A lot of potential problems have been raised about this puppy, and I think you actually have the _responsibility_ to ensure that your parents are aware of what you now know about this puppy and breeder.

It is all well and good to say that you're just going to look at the puppy, but the problem with that is it's very hard to walk away from a cute puppy, especially a cute puppy that isn't in the best circumstances - lots of people on here will be able to vouch for that! Heart rules head in those circumstances.

I think you need to find out everything possible BEFORE seeing the puppy. Ask for copies of the heath tests. As every question you can think of about the puppy's breeding and how it is being raised.

Of course it is your parent's decision in the end, but if you know that this particular puppy might cause heartache and financial burden, you should do everything in your power to make your parents understand what they are taking on.

From the Westie side, do not underestimate the misery and seriousness of skin problems. They're a huge issue with the breed and if the puppy isn't well-bred then there's a HUGE chance they will suffer, even if they're a cross.

You're 14 - you're not a child. Do the right thing, even though it's hard.


----------



## Netpon (Feb 21, 2012)

Good luck with your new pup, please do take the advice on here regarding researching the relevant health tests for both breeds. 

The pup in the pic would seem to be an odd colouring to me as westies are white and papillons are mainly white with black or brown patches, the pup looks to be grey brindle??? I would have expected a mix to be black and white or tri colour but I suppose it's hard to tell from a photo sometimes


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> Be warned even pups from the most unethical breeders are cute and fluffy
> 
> Personally I woudnt even consider the litter based on the advert info alone. I mean is it really to much hassle to take a photo of the actually puppies which are for sale? Is the breeder providing 4 weeks free insurance? If i was paying £600 for a pup i would expect that. Gives you time to take out a policy of your choice.
> 
> Im sorry I dont normally get involved in these types of threads but with the amount your parents are prepared to spend you really can afford the best.


The puppy comes with food, a blanket with his mothers scent on, a leaflet on puppy care, advice and first injection no insurance though.


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

the op is 14 .. she is a child


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

By saying you will keep adding pictures shows that you have decided on these pups. Even though clearly the breeder is misleading you.

Why not enquire about the westie breeders i have given you a link to. Some near you.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your advice (well the ones who put it nicely..) its lovely how passionate you all are and I will defo mention it all


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> By saying you will keep adding pictures shows that you have decided on these pups. Even though clearly the breeder is misleading you.
> 
> Why not enquire about the westie breeders i have given you a link to. Some near you.


Nope I haven`t it would be silly to decide on a pup without even meeting it.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> the op is 14 .. she is a child


She's not a child, she's a teenager who is heading towards being a young adult. And even children have voice and the ability to take social action and make change.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Because she's a spoiled child and she wants a puppy NOW. But then age shouldn't really come in to it. We all know of a 20 something year old doing exactly the same thing and without the excuse of "it's mummy's decision"


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Shrap said:


> Because she's a spoiled child and she wants a puppy NOW. But then age shouldn't really come in to it. We all know of a 20 something year old doing exactly the same thing and without the excuse of "it's mummy's decision"


Excuse me? Do you know me? I think not. Call me a spoiled child once more. No I don`t want a puppy now I`m waiting til December so there you go. Its not just my parents descion its mine too obviously but they are paying for the puppy. Once you actually know me and have a helpful, informed, constructive post feel free to post again


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Shrap said:


> Because she's a spoiled child and she wants a puppy NOW. But then age shouldn't really come in to it. We all know of a 20 something year old doing exactly the same thing and without the excuse of "it's mummy's decision"


Lets give her a chance to do what she knows is right.


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> She's not a child, she's a teenager who is heading towards being a young adult. And even children have voice and the ability to take social action and make change.


I'm sorry but she is a child at 14 nothing more , just a child!


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Shrap said:


> Because she's a spoiled child and she wants a puppy NOW. But then age shouldn't really come in to it. We all know of a 20 something year old doing exactly the same thing and without the excuse of "it's mummy's decision"


Unhelpful post award of the day has been won.


----------



## hazel pritchard (Jun 28, 2009)

omg just read this thread £600 for a x breed puppy,!!! the breeder must be laughing all the way to the bank ,!!!!!!! no wonder there are so many x breeds in rescues or being dumped.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

hazel pritchard said:


> omg just read this thread £600 for a x breed puppy,!!! the breeder must be laughing all the way to the bank ,!!!!!!! no wonder there are so many x breeds in rescues or being dumped.


There has been a bit of confusement over price I think its £280


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

She's had 8 pages and still wants to go see them. It's fairly obvious what the outcome will be.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Shrap said:


> She's had 8 pages and still wants to go see them. It's fairly obvious what the outcome will be.


Yes I may get the puppy but it will be truly loved and spoiled but I may not


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> There has been a bit of confusement over price I think its £280


Since someone in the other thread showed you the ad...


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> I'm sorry but she is a child at 14 nothing more , just a child!


So what, you don't think children can do anything? You don't think she can talk to her parents, discuss issues, suggest options, do research? If her parents still go ahead with the puppy then at least she knows she's helped them to go into it with their eyes open.

I've taught children younger than her that have achieved greater things than simply changing their parents' minds about a puppy.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

New Puppy Mum said:


> Yes I may get the puppy but it will be truly loved and spoiled but I may not


And who cares whether or not you're encouraging the person to have another litter? And I'll be betting they're keeping a bitch for breeding too! Wonder what they'll cross her with!

I would like to know what the parents' patella scores are.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

emmaviolet- Yes and I thank them very much for that

I think I will ask for this thread to get closed, its getting a bit out of hand


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Shrap said:


> And who cares whether or not you're encouraging the person to have another litter? And I'll be betting they're keeping a bitch for breeding too! Wonder what they'll cross her with!
> 
> I would like to know what the parents' patella scores are.


This innocent puppy doesn`t deserve a chance dose it not? And no their not


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

McKenzie said:


> So what, you don't think children can do anything? You don't think she can talk to her parents, discuss issues, suggest options, do research? If her parents still go ahead with the puppy then at least she knows she's helped them to go into it with their eyes open.
> 
> I've taught children younger than her that have achieved greater things than simply changing their parents' minds about a puppy.


I have no idea why you would jump down the throat of someone who is defending you.


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> There has been a bit of confusement over price I think its £280


Im sorry I dont think its a genuine price confusion, (I mean it would suddenly make the pup 1/2 price) it sounds like a breeder with multiple adds, fake photos and differing prices.

Have your parents seen this thread? Please please can you show this to your parents? You are obviously grown up and your parents trust you as your on an internet forum at 14!

Even those being rude are trying to help you, provide advice. I am sure theres people on here knowledgble enough to help you find the right puppy if you let them.

At 14 I was old enough to chose to have my ears pierced, have my first mobie nd have responsibility in the form of paperrounds. You are old enough to know right wrong and I really think you should shows your parents this thread.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> Im sorry I dont think its a genuine price confusion, (I mean it would suddenly make the pup 1/2 price) it sounds like a breeder with multiple adds, fake photos and differing prices.
> 
> Have your parents seen this thread? Please please can you show this to your parents? You are obviously grown up and your parents trust you as your on an internet forum at 14!
> 
> ...


Yes I am doing paper rounds in order to pay for the dog, spoiled eh? :biggrin5:


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> I have no idea why you would jump down the throat of someone who is defending you.


I wasn't defending anyone!!

and tbh..i am quite disgusted in some of the replies which are towards a child because thats what she is !! ..she came on quite chuffed she was getting a puppy...ffs  some are behaving like bullies


----------



## Mrsk9 (Dec 18, 2011)

Good luck with your puppy, can't wait to see the piccys. 

Sorry you've had such a tough time on here. Hope it hasn't put you off coming on here. I did see a sticky on dog chat regarding certain rules about topics on crossbreeds. I do think you've had an undeserved hard time on here, particularly sickening give your young age too! 


Mrsk9


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

paddyjulie said:


> I wasn't defending anyone!!
> 
> and tbh..i am quite disgusted in some of the replies which are towards a child because thats what she is !! ..she came on quite chuffed she was getting a puppy...ffs  some are behaving like bullies


Oh sorry i thought you were.

I wasnt being a bully. Just pointing out options as she wanted a westie anyway.


----------



## Beth17 (Jun 5, 2012)

Sorry if this has already been said but I was being a bit nosey and found this 
papillon cross chihuahua puppies ready 7th decembe | Crewe, Cheshire | Pets4Homes

Same mobile number and almost same ad. Please feel free to tell me to butt out.


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> This innocent puppy doesn`t deserve a chance dose it not? And no their not


Its not about giving a puppy chance. Its about handing money over to people who do not respect the puppies who pay for their holiday to spain.

If this litter doesnt sell for £600 each maybe this person will think twice before having another litter? Not every cute fluffy puppy can be 'saved' - Harsh but true- that life but as a buyer its our responsibility to support ethical breeders.

Sorry im trying to be really polite here but Im starting to fear you have no intention of showing what youve been talking about online with strangers all night to yolur parents  you say its not your decision - So why not show this tovyour parents who are the decision makers


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> I wasn't defending anyone!!
> 
> and tbh..i am quite disgusted in some of the replies which are towards a child because thats what she is !! ..she came on quite chuffed she was getting a puppy...ffs  some are behaving like bullies


I agree with the bullying part, honestly, New users would be turned away by the responses on this thread.

Carrying on like this is irresponsible and sets a hell of a bad example to others.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Mrsk9 said:


> Good luck with your puppy, can't wait to see the piccys.
> 
> Sorry you've had such a tough time on here. Hope it hasn't put you off coming on here. I did see a sticky on dog chat regarding certain rules about topics on crossbreeds. I do think you've had an undeserved hard time on here, particularly sickening give your young age too!
> 
> Mrsk9


Nah you get used to it  I do love this forum for its good advice but some people can be rude. Thanks a bunch


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> Its not about giving a puppy chance. Its about handing money over to people who do not respect the puppies who pay for their holiday to spain.
> 
> If this litter doesnt sell for £600 each maybe this person will think twice before having another litter? Not every cute fluffy puppy can be 'saved' - Harsh but true- that life but as a buyer its our responsibility to support ethical breeders.
> 
> Sorry im trying to be really polite here but Im starting to fear you have no intention of showing what youve been talking about online with strangers all night to yolur parents  you say its not your decision - So why not show this tovyour parents who are the decision makers


I will not at the moment but I will


----------



## CaliDog (Jun 3, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> I wasn't defending anyone!!
> 
> and tbh..i am quite disgusted in some of the replies which are towards a child because thats what she is !! ..she came on quite chuffed she was getting a puppy...ffs  some are behaving like bullies


TBH i couldn't agree more she is a child yes an older child but still a child. She may have an input into the purchase of the pup but at the end of the day it will be the parents who make the final decision! I can understand that people are passionate about where a pup comes from as i am but i think the parents will be making the decision not newpuppymum so the digs aimed at her are pretty pointless


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> I have no idea why you would jump down the throat of someone who is defending you.


Im sorry ive made a mistake.

I thought this was the op saying this and not mckenzie!!!!


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Beth17 said:


> Sorry if this has already been said but I was being a bit nosey and found this
> papillon cross chihuahua puppies ready 7th decembe | Crewe, Cheshire | Pets4Homes
> 
> Same mobile number and almost same ad. Please feel free to tell me to butt out.


Hmm thats interesting will see when I get there eh


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> Yes I am doing paper rounds in order to pay for the dog, spoiled eh? :biggrin5:


I never said you were spoilt


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> I never said you were spoilt


Oh I know, that was Sharp


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

New Puppy Mum said:


> Yes I am doing paper rounds in order to pay for the dog, spoiled eh? :biggrin5:


I never said you were spoilt


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Beth17 said:


> Sorry if this has already been said but I was being a bit nosey and found this
> papillon cross chihuahua puppies ready 7th decembe | Crewe, Cheshire | Pets4Homes
> 
> Same mobile number and almost same ad. Please feel free to tell me to butt out.


Oh dear.

These pics are from a previous litter too.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Ok I'm getting a tad confused 

But my point stands - At 14 the OP has the ability to understand the issues around this puppy, and she is old enough to put forward a rational case to her parents about why this puppy isn't the best idea. What her parents do after that is out of her control, but she DOES have a VOICE.

Of course, it does depend on her being mature enough to WANT to do the right thing.

I don't condone those posters who are talking to her inappropriately. But I also don't condone those who claim that because she is 'only' 14 she is completely without responsibility.


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

emmaviolet said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> These pics are from a previous litter too.


Very worrying


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I wish you the best of luck when you go to view the pup, I'm sure you'll do what is best either way and I can't wait to see pics of whichever pup you do end up with.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

McKenzie said:


> Ok I'm getting a tad confused
> 
> But my point stands - At 14 the OP has the ability to understand the issues around this puppy, and she is old enough to put forward a rational case to her parents about why this puppy isn't the best idea. What her parents do after that is out of her control, but she DOES have a VOICE.
> 
> ...


I think i confused you.

I thought you was the op saying she was mature at 14.
I actually agree with what you said. At 14 i was teaching dance to children who i was in charge of.


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> Ok I'm getting a tad confused
> 
> But my point stands - At 14 the OP has the ability to understand the issues around this puppy, and she is old enough to put forward a rational case to her parents about why this puppy isn't the best idea. What her parents do after that is out of her control, but she DOES have a VOICE.
> 
> ...


A childhood should be without responsibility ...her parents are there for that !!


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> A childhood should be without responsibility ...her parents are there for that !!


So what's the 'right' age for her to think critically about the world, develop informed opinions, stand up for what she believes in, and take action to make the world the sort of place she wants to live in?

I think we all need to worry about the future if 14-year-olds are living without any responsibility!


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

paddyjulie said:


> A childhood should be without responsibility ...her parents are there for that !!


Not really. You should be taught responsbilities all throughout your childhood. Doing homework and chores and i always had pet responsibilities too with dogs and rabbits and dance commitments. You are taught to show up on time for school etc and as you progress to a teenager you have more.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

McKenzie said:


> So what's the 'right' age for her to think critically about the world, develop informed opinions, stand up for what she believes in, and take action to make the world the sort of place she wants to live in?
> 
> I think we all need to worry about the future if 14-year-olds are living without any responsibility!


I believe there's a TV show on MTV about kids like that


----------



## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

Id just like to say I hope you find a puppy you and your family are happy with.
I had all this when I mentioned our new puppy..alot of people just wanting to put a downer on it and going out of their way to pick fault with everything and basically trying to make you feel like the worst person ever for getting excited about it. 

I really think you need to take alot of things said on this forum with a big pinch of salt 

Good luck with whatever you and your family decide...and I really love the name 'Logan'


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> So what's the 'right' age for her to think critically about the world, develop informed opinions, stand up for what she believes in, and take action to make the world the sort of place she wants to live in?
> 
> I think we all need to worry about the future if 14-year-olds are living without any responsibility!





emmaviolet said:


> Not really. You should be taught responsbilities all throughout your childhood. Doing homework and chores and i always had pet responsibilities too with dogs and rabbits and dance commitments. You are taught to show up on time for school etc and as you progress to a teenager you have more.





Shrap said:


> I believe there's a TV show on MTV about kids like that


Can I ask? do any of you three have children?


----------



## Labrador Laura (Sep 12, 2010)

At 14 i was working weekends at a kennels because i wasn't allowed a dog, but i was still a kid and didn't know things about dogs like i do now.

But my sister at 14 had no care in the world, she's now 16 moved out because she doesn't like following rules, she lives her friend sister and has just dropped out of college. We both had the same up bringing but we are so different and i'm alot more mature but at 14 i still wouldn't of known what people are trying to put into this poor girls head. Yes i understand what people are trying to say but even if she does go for this puppy she's going to love it, care for it and will have support on here (hopefully) if she needs any help.


----------



## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

paddyjulie said:


> Can I ask? do any of you three have children?


I'm not one of those 3, and I don't have children either but if I did I wouldn't mind a 14 year old like this one - she writes like a 30 something (excellent punctuation), respects her parents wishes, is very patient with adults and doesn't appear to be lacking in social skills either. She's posting on a pet forum excited about her new puppy instead of a teen pregnancy forum about her new baby, so realistically she's a pretty well turned out kid.

The puppy wouldn't be my choice, but at 14 I dyed my long brown hair ginger and wore a wooden crucifix around my neck along with fake John Lennon glasses that I didn't need either.

There are worse teenage crimes than falling in love with an overpriced cross-breed puppy. Much worse!


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> Can I ask? do any of you three have children?


I do not have them but I teach them. And quite frankly the ones who have been brought up without responsibility have been done a disservice. Sheltered children have a very hard time adjusting to the 'real world'.

Part of the curriculum (here at least) is to teach about responsibility, critical thinking, taking social action, and making change. This is what makes active citizens of the future with consciences.

If I was to teach my class about ethical treatment of animals we would look at what that meant, what is ethical and unethical, children would make their own decisions about what is acceptable to them, and we would take action such as making a petition against puppy farmers or asking our local MP to come in to discuss breeding licencing or something.

Would you prefer that 14 year olds had their head in the sand, completely sheltered from the injustices in the world, without the ability to make sense of such things and make up their own minds about them? 5-year-olds maybe, but not 14-year-olds.


----------



## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

I haven't waded through all twelve pages yet (I've just finished going through another epic thread  ) but is this what always happens when someone posts about their soon-to-be new addition, unless they're from a 'PF approved source'? I'm fairly new here (I joined a while back but only really started posting recently) and am quite taken aback by the sanctimonious attitudes I have come across on these forums in the last few days. 
This is a fourteen year old who has been waiting and researching for some time, excited about finding her puppy at last and getting a load of grief for it. There's constructive advice and then there's picking on a teenage girl.


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> I do not have them but I teach them. And quite frankly the ones who have been brought up without responsibility have been done a disservice. Sheltered children have a very hard time adjusting to the 'real world'.
> 
> Part of the curriculum (here at least) is to teach about responsibility, critical thinking, taking social action, and making change. This is what makes active citizens of the future with consciences.
> 
> ...


as by your previous posts.. I presumed you did not 'have them' 'teaching them' is slightly different to 'having them' 

the kid was chuffed because she was getting a pet....do you behave the same way with the kids you teach ..if they get a puppy..I would think not


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

A puppy farmer is a puppy farmer whether the person who buys is 14 or 40.

One breeder called is no research. 

I do not have children but know when i was 14 i had my share of responsibilities and tried hard to live up to them. Of course children should have some in life.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> as by your previous posts.. I presumed you did not 'have them' 'teaching them' is slightly different to 'having them'
> 
> the kid was chuffed because she was getting a pet....do you behave the same way with the kids you teach ..if they get a puppy..I would think not


And how exactly did I behave? The OP herself, and other posters, were saying that as she was only 14 she had no control over the situation. I was pointing out that she does, as a 14 year old, have responsibility and voice. And I was trying, at least, to do this in an empowering way.

Had the OP herself not said that she feels she doesn't have any control over the situation, I wouldn't have brought it up. She said "This is NOT my descion, I`m 14 year old kid do you think I have control over this?
Sure its easy for you to say but your not a kid who doesn`t have control on what puppy my parents decide on". If she was genuinely happy about the puppy and completely satisfied with where it was coming from then it would have been a non-issue.

If a child came into my class and said that their parents were getting a puppy but they had found out some things that made them think that maybe it wasn't the best puppy to get, then yes I would have responded in the same way and helped that child to express their concerns to their parents. I would not have said "well you're only 14 so too bad, you have no voice".


----------



## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I think we all have to remember the OP is only 14 and ultimately it's her parents decision.
I think people need to remember they are talking to a child who will be looking to her parents for guidance above random people on a forum - yes she can take our points of view and share them with her parents if she wishes, but still it will be her parents choice. And yes at 14 she should have some sense of responsibility which from her posts she appears to have more sense than a lot of 14 year olds and is trying to do the right thing in but as I've already said this decision is not being made by her she can only express her opinion to her parents. 

As said before on other threads one persons BYB is aonthers Hobby Breeder 

Hopefully the OP and her parents will visit research the breeder a little more before they decide to visit and if and when they visit make an informed decision rather than being swept away by cute puppies.


----------



## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

I don't see 14 as being a young child... when I was 14 my parents gave me a lot of responsibility. I am glad they did, it means I am capable of doing things for myself. I remember I had a debate with my dad and uncle when I was younger than 14... I must have been about 12 at the time, about the grand national. It is something that I am strongly against, and I won't call it an argument because it wasn't shouting or angry but it was a strong debate (although, the immature side of me went into my room and kicked my bed in frustration and nearly broke my foot ). Even at that age I stood up for what I believed in. 

These breeders definitely seem dodgy, especially since learning they have another litter at the same time... oh, and conveniently in time for christmas 

I don't want to rain on anyones parade, getting a puppy is a VERY exciting time. However, when a breeder seems so wrong I do think people should express this (although not in the way some people have). I would rather warn her away from this puppy, rather than say nothing and her go get the puppy who then turns out to have health issues (I am not saying the puppy will but we have heard many similar stories before) and potentially go through heartbreak... If she gets the puppy anyway (and I know it is her parents decision) and sometimes happens health wise, well it will be a terrible shame but at least people would have given her a heads up. 

And that isn't even touching on the ethical side of going to this breeder.


----------



## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> I do not have them but I teach them. And quite frankly the ones who have been brought up without responsibility have been done a disservice. Sheltered children have a very hard time adjusting to the 'real world'.
> 
> Part of the curriculum (here at least) is to teach about responsibility, critical thinking, taking social action, and making change. This is what makes active citizens of the future with consciences.
> 
> ...


The above is all very "idealist".

You teach kids - but I teach dogs - as in I run a sold out dog training club where we teach Kennel Club Puppy Foundation through to Gold Level Good Citizens Course so I hope what I share in this thread has some relevance.

We have cross breed puppy owners pay good money for training with us every time we hold a new course date. Last night our new puppy course began and we still had 24 on the waiting list! I guess you could say 'we're in demand'.

The most infuriating thing I have found so far about these cross breeds is the names that I have to fill in on the Kennel Club puppy foundation register that is sent back to the Kennel Club with my signature attached - this time around I have 2 "Cav-A-Poo's" - I am DREADING the first Havanese X ****-z-u! Believe me!

Sure, we get some interesting crosses that are ill thought out. Last night I answered a question from a lovely couple who wondered why their 11 month old un-neutered male puppy dragged them into their park and then proceeded to defend them against the people and dogs contained within. I asked about the breed and they told me it's an Alaskan Malamute x German Shepherd. I secretly wondered why they even had to ask me about their dog's behaviour. LOL.

But the point of difference is that these people really care about their dog otherwise why would they have paid good money for a great course to help me to help them with their dog?

On the other hand, I've seen pedigree dog owners who come through the class believing that "Pedigree Chum" literally means "exclusively for Pedigree dog owners" and refuse to believe that good old common ham or cheese is a better training reward than the kibble from their bag of "Pedigree Chum". They are too wrapped up in their own idea of 'perfection' to see that the breed doesn't make the dog automatically better than any other.

If I had an application for our courses from a 14 year old I would be seriously impressed at her willingness to give a dog a great home and do the very best by it regardless of the breed! The OP is here doing exactly that.

As a KC dog trainer I regard her highly for her actions.


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> And how exactly did I behave? The OP herself, and other posters, were saying that as she was only 14 she had no control over the situation. I was pointing out that she does, as a 14 year old, have responsibility and voice. And I was trying, at least, to do this in an empowering way.
> 
> Had the OP herself not said that she feels she doesn't have any control over the situation, I wouldn't have brought it up. She said "This is NOT my descion, I`m 14 year old kid do you think I have control over this?
> Sure its easy for you to say but your not a kid who doesn`t have control on what puppy my parents decide on". If she was genuinely happy about the puppy and completely satisfied with where it was coming from then it would have been a non-issue.
> ...


I would have thought you as a 'teacher' would have behaved in a more respectable manner towards a child on this forum!!


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

paddyjulie said:


> I would have thought you as a 'teacher' would have behaved in a more respectable manner towards a child on this forum!!


Umm.. I'm pretty sure McKenzie didn't say anthing wrong 

I was the only one who got pissed off.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> I would have thought you as a 'teacher' would have behaved in a more respectable manner towards a child on this forum!!


Please quote where I have been disrespectful towards the OP.


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

To the OP, you say you have no say in the purchase of this pup and then you contradict yourself and say it's for you, which is it?


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

classixuk said:


> The above is all very "idealist".
> 
> .


Of course it's idealist - the minute we stop having high expectations for our kids and believing in them 100% is the minute they stop believing in themselves. I'm shocked how many people here think kids and teenagers can't make a difference.


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> Please quote where I have been disrespectful towards the OP.


The manner in which things are said!!

this OP is a child ..end of .......grow up


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

paddyjulie said:


> The manner in which things are said!!
> 
> this OP is a child ..end of .......grow up


So you can't find any examples? Please quote where my manner is disrespectful then, because I was trying very hard to be very polite and helpful. If I have this disrespectful manner then I'd like to know about it so I can fix it.

Sorry to press the point, I just don't like to be slandered when I've done nothing wrong.


----------



## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> Of course it's idealist - the minute we stop having high expectations for our kids and believing in them 100% is the minute they stop believing in themselves. I'm shocked how many people here think kids and teenagers can't make a difference.


But you're assuming that 'your ideals' MUST be the 'right ideals'.

I like to call that 'musterbating' - where you fantasise how the world 'must' be according to what turns you on.

I accept that you think/feel 14 year olds should be able to change the world with their voices and actions.

But when I was 14 I was more or less forced to do that and frankly I'd prefer that no 14 year old have that weight of responsibility on their shoulders. Can you accept my point of view has credit too or will you keep on musterbating about a 14 year old stranger you have never met who is excited about getting a puppy you will never meet?

Be happy for them! Don't be such a scrooge!


----------



## paddyjulie (May 9, 2009)

McKenzie said:


> So you can't find any examples? Please quote where my manner is disrespectful then, because I was trying very hard to be very polite and helpful. If I have this disrespectful manner then I'd like to know about it so I can fix it.
> 
> Sorry to press the point, I just don't like to be slandered when I've done nothing wrong.


ok looking back You have not ..i am sorry for that i apologise ..!!

but ..please.. the kid comes on with a puppy and gets slaughtered .


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

classixuk said:


> But you're assuming that 'your ideals' MUST be the 'right ideals'.
> 
> I like to call that 'musterbating' - where you fantasise how the world 'must' be according to what turns you on.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but at 14, I was a radical vegetarian according to my parents. Whilst I absolutely agree it's not fair to *blame* the op, it's not wrong to hopefully educate them as to how dogs are bred and alert them to the fact that this pup is really not from what the vast majority would call a *good* breeder.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Just an aside, why is ****zu an issue, when the dog is a shih tzu?

A cavapoo is a poodle X or a Cav KC X or a CKC/Poodle X. It's not a breed.


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2012)

Ok I'm going to stop here. I believe children should be taught to be responsible and active citizens for the future. I thought that was something that everyone would believe, but I was wrong.

I am happy for the OP if she is happy. If she is not happy about this puppy I hope she believes she can do something about it.

It's a beautiful Saturday here and I've got lots of things to do! I look forward to duelling with you all again soon


----------



## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Sorry, but at 14, I was a radical vegetarian according to my parents. Whilst I absolutely agree it's not fair to *blame* the op, it's not wrong to hopefully educate them as to how dogs are bred and alert them to the fact that this pup is really not from what the vast majority would call a *good* breeder.


I do agree and already stated that the pup wouldn't be my personal choice ... but then again ... have you ever tried convincing a blonde 14 year old that the box kit of black hair dye probably isn't the best choice of 'transformations' to be going ahead with?

Clue: They won't believe you - you are too old and past it to know! 

Personally I prefer to accept that I'm not perfect, even now at 35, so why should I expect a 14 year old to be better than that? We all make decisions based on what we know and feel at the time. Haven't you ever (even as an adult) made a purchase you later regretted? You learn from it and it's called life. What's most important is that you have people around you supporting you and helping you feel less bad about that mistake rather than a bunch of "I told you so's".

And who really knows? This dog could actually turn out to be amazing for all we know! I've met some amazing cross-breed / Heinz 57 rescue dogs who were placed with the right handler and flourished.

I'll bow out by asking the following question - "Who are you all most actually annoyed at here - the 14 year old or the 'breeder' who is selling her parents the pup?"

Clue: The breeder isn't posting in this thread, so why is all the frustration being directed at the 14 year old 'customer'? Let's keep this real folks.


----------



## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

househens said:


> Just an aside, why is ****zu an issue, when the dog is a shih tzu?
> 
> A cavapoo is a poodle X or a Cav KC X or a CKC/Poodle X. It's not a breed.


LOL. That made me smile.

Answer: Because I get the handlers to fill in their Puppy Diaries and Course register!


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

classixuk said:


> I do agree and already stated that the pup wouldn't be my personal choice ... but then again ... have you ever tried convincing a blonde 14 year old that the box kit of black hair dye probably isn't the best choice of 'transformations' to be going ahead with?
> 
> Clue: They won't believe you - you are too old and past it to know!
> 
> ...


There is one basic flaw in your post, you and I know that this breeder is a byb, ie they haven't a foggiest, and have produced this cross breed for the heck of it. The OP is a 14 year old who can't hope to be responsible for the purchase. That is real.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

When I was 14 I was coming to terms with the death of my father who died in front of me. None the less I was still under the guidance if my mother and accepted her decisions as final - no questions asked. Would rather have been a radical vegetarian any day but oh well..

If mum and dad want to buy you a pup then how lovely us that and hôw lucky are you. Tell you what, my daughter and I bought my other daughter a surprise pup for her 23rd birthday, she'd always wanted a dog of her own and never had. We went and looked at JRTxCHI's, some health tests on dads part but tbh we didn't really care (shock horror) they were running about, full of beans, bright eyed, inquisitive and not nervous looking all plump and gorgeous. We couldn't see if they were healthy on the inside but they looked very healthy on the outside sooo we bought one. Nearly two years later he is so much loved, so loves his mummy and we are so glad we bought him. Pay day today so my daughter came home with a new cuddle blanket, a stripy scarf, a rain coat (which makes him look like a gangster, lol) treats and an advent calendar which has a 'jackchi' on it which looks just like him. She says he is the best thing that's ever happened to her, every time she looks at him she loves him more. He's healthy and so very clever, makes all of us realise just how lucky he is to have such a lovely home - just like the rest of our dogs. 

When you see your pup, look at his eyes to see if they are bright, his ears to see if they are clean, see if he walks and runs as you'd expect a puppy to with no stiffness, look for flea dirts behind the ears as he shouldn't have fleas, see if he is adventurous and wants to come and see you and doesn't shy away and look at his general body condition, part his fur to see if his skin looks clear - look to see if his body shape is plump but not bloated and nice fluffy coat. 
If he passes and he isn't a nervous pup who shys away from you, then you should be okay. There are things any dog can get that cannot be tested for but if you look up both of the breeds in your boy you'll know where weaknesses can be and look out for them when you visit your pup. 

You know what puppies should be like, all playful and active so you know roughly what you want to see in your boy. 

Good luck and don't forget those pics!


----------



## classixuk (Jun 6, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> There is one basic flaw in your post, you and I know that this breeder is a byb, ie they haven't a foggiest, and have produced this cross breed for the heck of it. *The OP is a 14 year old who can't hope to be responsible for the purchase. * That is real.


Thanks. Exactly.

Therefore shouldn't hope to be responsible for the flack that's been given to her here.

I mean c'mon ... seriously ... is it a teenager's responsibility to stop her parents gambling/smoking/drinking etc.? We'd never place that level of responsibility on their shoulders.

Some of the posts in this thread, whilst well intentioned are VERY idealist - every 8 weeks I see new 11 week old cross breed puppies in my classes - should I preach to the owners rather than help them train their dogs? The puppies are born and rehomed by the time I see them.

One 14 year old can't stop this.

Only the law can.

If you all care so much, stop placing the responsibility on the shoulders of a newbie 14 year old kid to change the world and instead start a thread about writing to your MP to have the law changed about puppy breeding.

Do what you expect this child to do for you and lead from the front. Please!!!

That way, we can leave children to be excited about their puppies whist we actually do some good.

Just sayin'


----------



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

classixuk said:


> Thanks. Exactly.
> 
> Therefore shouldn't hope to be responsible for the flack that's been given to her here.
> 
> ...


sorry, but I can't agree, I don't disagree that the OP is 14 and has no real say, however, I remember as a 14 year old in the 80's, I did have a say, if this is her dog, as has been intimated, surely she should have some say?


----------



## Luz (Jul 28, 2012)

househens said:


> Just an aside, why is ****zu an issue, when the dog is a shih tzu?
> 
> A cavapoo is a poodle X or a Cav KC X or a CKC/Poodle X. It's not a breed.


I think what was meant was that a Havanese X Shih Tzu would be a Hava-Sh*t!


----------



## Mum2Alfie (Jan 4, 2010)

seriously????? If I was this kids mother I would come on here and give a few short sharp words to you guys!!!! There is nothing wrong with cross breeds. As long as that dog is loved and cared for that is all that counts!!!! Especially in this day and age with everything going on with unwanted dogs atm!! 

Dont listen to a word!!!! Just go and enjoy ur puppy!!! Love it, care for it and have the best time with it!! There are more important things in life than bits of paper!


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Mum2Alfie said:


> seriously????? If I was this kids mother I would come on here and give a few short sharp words to you guys!!!! There is nothing wrong with cross breeds. As long as that dog is loved and cared for that is all that counts!!!! Especially in this day and age with everything going on with unwanted dogs atm!!
> 
> Dont listen to a word!!!! Just go and enjoy ur puppy!!! Love it, care for it and have the best time with it!! There are more important things in life than bits of paper!


How about going and doing some research into the CAUSE of unwanted dogs before spouting off.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

We all learn by our mistakes, that's part of growing up and when it's a life that could be at stake it's a hard mistake to learn, with that I speak from experience and my mistake was learned when I was in my fifties. But you deal with your mistakes in the best way you can, however hard they may seem. Would I ever breed from un health tested dogs again - no of course not but not all dogs bred this way are unhealthy. Seven of my eight pups are not unhealthy and judging by Flynn I would expect at least some sign by now that they are nearly five years old. My older crosses are now eight and apart from being a bit yappy they are fine. Like people they can have a condition thrown at them out of the blue but health related issues within all of the breeds in them are not apparent. Could I have just been lucky in all my years, could my other family members have just been lucky too - who knows? I wonder what the odds are, if anyone has factual evidence in comparison with the amount of dogs born. I doubt it!

If you are an unlucky owner and your dog does end up with problems then you do your best to help right it. Having a dog diagnosed with severe HD who could barely walk at 18 months of age was devastating but I didn't give up on him although I could have had him pts like I had seen others do with the same condition. Thankfully I researched and decided to try and give him a chance in life, he had the surgery and now is fine, strong as an ox in fact. He had a very serious defect but it was repairable. 
I would insure any dog I owned, even if it were from tip top lines as you never know what may happen in its future. By insuring you are ensuring the best possible treatment should your dog ever fall ill, regardless of the cause. 

It's not always the mistakes you make that matter it's how you deal with them. One things for sure, we may all listen to advice but we don't always take it, it's just the way us humans are and we'd all be lying if we said we always took advice given to us.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Shrap said:


> How about going and doing some research into the CAUSE of unwanted dogs before spouting off.


Isn't that mostly divorce and poverty? According to the dogs trust this is a major reason at present!
Oh and people losing their homes and unable to rent while having a dog!


----------



## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

Some of the responses on this thread are awful! I agree that the ad(s) look dodgy, but the attitude towards the OP is terrible. I have to say, she's been a lot more mature in her responses than I would have been, and a lot more mature generally than people ten years or more her senior, so credit to you for that, newpuppymum!

With the issue of her responsibility or otherwise, please don't forget she is 14. Families differ, too, so while *you* might have been able to do this that or the other when you were 14, it doesn't mean she can. The dog can be for her, but it doesn't mean she has the final say in what dog she gets. My parents paid for my education, for my benefit, but I didn't get to choose which school I went to. They gave me a bicycle, but I didn't get to choose which one. My grandmother gave me a budgie, but I didn't get to pick... etc.

She also says she'll pass the information on to her parents. What more can she do, when this isn't her final decision? I would have been wary of showing my parents this thread too, either because I didn't wholeheartedly defend them against everyone, or because they'd have been so shocked at the vitriol directed against me that they'd ban me from the forum, thus making me lose a useful resource to help me care for my new dog.

Even now, if I spoke to my dad about health tests, explained about all the issues, he'd still buy dogs without health tests (not puppy farms), because that's what he and everyone we know have always done, so why should he change because a bunch of people on a forum say differently? So why should the OP's parents react any differently?

She is obviously trying to be as responsible and well prepared as she can be, or she wouldn't have joined this forum back in July or whenever it was. That also negates the whole, 'I want a puppy and I want it now,' because she or her parents wouldn't have waited five months if that was the case, they'd have got the first cute bundle of fur that caught their eyes on Gumtree. This is a longer post than I intended it to be, but all things that occurred to me as I read this thread. The poor girl is trying to do the best she can with what she's got, and being flamed for it.


----------

