# devastated and all my fault



## estrelaslave23 (Jan 18, 2014)

I have had my fish for around five years and thought all was fine. Suddenly two weeks ago I noticed they didn't look right and were huddled together at the bottom of the tank. On investigating their symptoms it looked like white spot so I bought some treatment for the, too late apparently. I have just found the fourth one dead in the space of two days. They were covered in a white substance. 

I have emptied the tank right out and am basically going to start again. I have one sickly looking goldfish left and three algae eaters which seem fine.

I know now how naive i was in not checking water quality etc and won't make the same mistakes again but they were all doing well until I introduced 2 sucking loaches. I can only assume they were infected. 

Not looking for criticism as know it was my fault and been in tears. What do you think it could have been and any suggestions on what to clean the tank and filter with? Just praying the others will make it but it is not looking good for the remaining gold fish!


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Hi there - sorry to hear of your losses. Its horrible when it happens, especially when you don't know why.

A couple of questions before I can help:

What size is your tank, and what species did you have in there (and how many of each)?
What temperature did you keep the tank at?
Did you introduce anything else into the tank (e.g. plants) or just the loaches?
Do you run a filter, and if so what kind? 
Do you clean out the filter, and if so - how? And how often?
Is there any chance any thing could have got into the tank to contaminate it (aerosols, cream on your hands, untreated tap water)? 
When cleaning out the tank, do you use a suitable tap water conditioner?

Sorry, lots of questions. A couple more:

The white stuff on the fish - was it peppery, like lots of little spots, or like a white slime?

Where there any other symptoms (fish floating or sinking or listing to one side, fish gasping at the surface or else panting with their gills, any other lesions on the body, blackening of the fins, raggedness of the fins, bloating or swelling of the body)?

My two main suspects are ammonia/nitrite/chlorine poisoning - which can cause a sliminess because those chemicals burn their skin - or an infection, either white spot, velvet or a fungal infection of some kind. 

Whatever has happened, if all your fish are gone now you will be best to disinfect the tank and all the decor using a weak bleach (5% in cold water is best, and rinse well after) bin any plants, and start again from scratch with a full fishless cycle.


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## estrelaslave23 (Jan 18, 2014)

Thank you for replying. Tank is 120 litres. I had 1 goldfish, 2 fancy goldfish and a snake like bottom feeder that was very pale (& my favourite). There were also three flat algae feeders (quite small). The filter is a fluval that is designed for a tank that size. Now this is what i was doing wrong, filter cleaned when showing red and sponges rinsed out with tap water. Don't know what temperature. Only new thing was the two new fish. One fancy goldfish still alive and algae feeders still ok. Have no choice but to have them in buckets at present. 

They started off looking like they had been sprinkled with fine salt and ended up with a white coating. They were huddled together at bottom of tank but would come up briefly to feed. They went downhill very quickly.

I have emptied the tank and discarded everything that was in there. Have bought new gravel and ornaments, a water testing kit, an air pump and some tap safe. 

Just got to clean the glass and then start again. What is the shortest cycling time as they cant stay in the buckets for too long, assuming they survive. I think the algae feeders will be ok, not sure about the goldfish.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

If you still have some fish alive, I'd put them back in the tank, as the ammonia levels will rise very quickly in an unfiltered bucket. Are the remaining fish showing any symptoms?

It sounds to me like whitespot as a secondary infection brought on by stress from high ammonia and nitrite levels, as your tank was quite overstocked and uncycled due to washing the filter sponges in tap water, which would have killed off the good bacteria. Filter media very rarely needs replacing (despite what the manufacturers would have you believe!) and should only be cleaned by swishing gently in old tank water, and only one sponge each time. Not saying this to criticise - I've made similar mistakes myself and I know you'll be kicking yourself as it is - but just so that you know for next time 

What test kit have you got? (The liquid ones are much much better than the test strips!) You'll be doing a fish-in cycle, so you'll need to test daily and do a water change any time you have positive readings for ammonia or nitrite, which will be pretty much every day. Aim to keep the levels below 0.25 for both ammonia and nitrite.

If you can, try to get hold of a product called Seachem Prime, which is a dechlorinator and can be used instead of the Tapsafe, but will also detoxify the ammonia and nitrite if used daily in a large enough dose for the whole tank (and if nitrite is present, use 5x the normal dose). This doesn't replace water changes, though - you'll need to stay on top of these as well.

If your remaining fish are symptom-free, then hopefully your cleaning of the whole tank will have eliminated the whitespot, but it would be wise to have a bottle of medication on hand just in case. Esha Exit is a good one, and can be used simultaneously with Esha 2000 to kill off most nasties - it might pay you to have a bottle of each on standby, in case you need them at any time.

Don't add any more fish until your tank is fully cycled, and keep a close eye on your stocking levels - depending on what exact species the algae eaters are, it sounds like you may be fully stocked already.

Hope that helps and doesn't come across as overly critical or negative - it's not intended in that way!


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Hmm. OK.

Firstly, I should have said this sooner but - you only really need to gut a tank like that if all the fish are dead. Putting the fish into buckets is stressful for them - I can only hope you have running filters in with them - and when you return them to the tank there will be no good bacteria now to help with the water chemistry issues you have been having. 

You are right - rinsing the filter in tap water is the culprit. In that one moment you destroyed all the bacteria in the filter, causing a mini cycle, and this will have depressed your fishes' immune systems to the point where they became sick (it sounds like velvet to me, but I can't be sure without seeing photos) , and that's on top of untreated tap water with chlorine/chloramine putting them under strain.

What you need to do now depends on what you have done with your filter. I'm hoping you haven't washed the media itself, and i'm also hoping you are running a filter in each of the buckets the fish are in. If not, they are going to die very quickly from the build up of toxins in the water.

You need to get the aquarium set back up as quick as possible. If you washed the filter media, you have little choice but to allow a fish-in cycle to progress, and do what you can to minimise the damage. Tapsafe isn't really the tool for the job, you need to go get some Seachem Prime, which is by far the best as it can deal with ammonia, and at a 5x dose it can sort out nitrite spikes as well. Also get some aquarium salt, as this prevents nitrite toxicity (follow dose on packet).**

If you have the means to keep the fish in buckets with the filter media in tact and filter running, then you will have to buy another filter if you want to do a fishless cycle using bottled ammonia. It would take 2 weeks if you have something to seed the media with (a squeeze of a dirty sponge that's already mature over the new media is enough), if you don't have seeding media you are looking at 6+ weeks to complete, if it even starts.

Next time you have fish getting sick, first thing you check is the water chem - as this is nearly always the problem, and when you get that sorted the fish normally get better by themselves. If not, velvet and whitespot and various other ailments can be effectively medicated, so there really is no need to gut the tank and start again.

I should point out that 120L is not a big enough tank for one goldfish, let alone three plus other fish. If the goldfish have died I urge you to not replace them, and to consider a different community set up altogether. I'm not sure of the other fish you mentioned are even cold water fish (I would need to know the species), but if they are there are other options for the tank size you have - just not goldfish of any kind. And if you get a heater then your options increase even further. If anything a tropical aquarium can be easier than a cold water one, just because so many trop. fish are hardy enough to cope with mistakes.

If any of your goldfish make it through, I would suggest you rehome them either to a pond (for normal shaped goldies) or someone with a larger tank (for fancies/round bodied).

I hope some of that helps, we are here to help you in any way we can.

**ETA: As Naomi said, you will also have to perform daily water changes whilst the cycle progresses.


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## Phoenix24 (Apr 6, 2013)

Dang Naomi you beat me to it again! Lightning fingers, that's what you have (mind you I rewrote my whole message twice.. so...)


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Not going to repeat what's already been said, as Naomi and Phoenix have covered it all 

Would just say it would be a good idea to ID the 3 remaining 'algae eaters' as there are potentially a lot of different species that a shop would sell under that name!

Do they look like this? https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=h...5YG4Bg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643 (hillstream loach)

Or like any of these? https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=h...UoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643#q=golden+loach&tbm=isch (golden loach), https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=h...AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643#q=algae+eater&tbm=isch (various 'algae eaters')


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## estrelaslave23 (Jan 18, 2014)

They are hillstream loaches. The tank is very big, space for a cupboard and a wine rack underneath, do goldfish really need so much space? May have to rethink future stock. Will have to do an in fish cycle. Have bought liquid testers, cost about £30.00. Thanks for your help. A terrible way to learn a lesson, i had grown quite fond of my fish. Last goldfish still alive so fingers crossed.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Just to add to what has already been said, a lot of medications deprive water of oxygen so its always a good idea to add an additional source of oxygen such as an open ended airline.

The white substance could be the start of decomposition too.

Sorry for your loss


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## lauralouise90 (Jan 20, 2014)

Ah man - I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

The advice given above is completely correct so if you follow that your tank should be back in order in no time


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