# Overnight issues- Nursing Retriever Bitch



## DarenS (Jul 13, 2014)

I am after some advice if someone has had similar issues.
My Golden Retriever has just had a litter of 10 pups. During the day she is very attentive and is able to feed and look after them with no issues. She is also quite confident to leave them alone after just four days.
However at night it is a different story. She is restless, paces the house and whines whenever the pups are disturbed or want a feed. She has also taken to letting herself out the dog flap and digging in the garden particularly in a place she seemed to be nesting before the birth.
She has always been a dog that likes attention from us.
We have had her for over a year, and she is 4 yrs old. She was a rescue dog and the previous owners did have a litter with her. (Previous owner had a German Shepherd as well and it was bullying her)
We have tried to bottle feed to supplement but the pups were not very interested and looking at the way they are growing she is obviously feeding them plenty! So they are not too neglected but the lack of sleep is causing some issues for the rest of the family. I have tried to sleep in the same room, for one night but it was the same. We have spoken to the vet who didn't really have too many ideas so we are hoping someone else has had similar issues and might have some ideas.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Adaptil plug-in? Light on?


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

DarenS said:


> I am after some advice if someone has had similar issues.
> My Golden Retriever has just had a litter of 10 pups. During the day she is very attentive and is able to feed and look after them with no issues. She is also quite confident to leave them alone after just four days.
> However at night it is a different story. She is restless, paces the house and whines whenever the pups are disturbed or want a feed. She has also taken to letting herself out the dog flap and digging in the garden particularly in a place she seemed to be nesting before the birth.
> She has always been a dog that likes attention from us.
> ...


What on earth were you thinking of breeding from a rescue bitch? She doesn't sound like a natural mum and is stressed by the whole thing - poor girl. Have you spoken to her previous owners to find out about her previous pregnancy? It's quite possible why they got rid of her cos she wasn't suitable for breeding and you went and bred from her anyway. Poor bitch - and you seem more concerned about your lack of sleep! sometimes I despair.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

DarenS said:


> I am after some advice if someone has had similar issues.
> My Golden Retriever has just had a litter of 10 pups. During the day she is very attentive and is able to feed and look after them with no issues. She is also quite confident to leave them alone after just four days.
> However at night it is a different story. She is restless, paces the house and whines whenever the pups are disturbed or want a feed. She has also taken to letting herself out the dog flap and digging in the garden particularly in a place she seemed to be nesting before the birth.
> She has always been a dog that likes attention from us.
> ...


So what?  You bred her... This is what happens! If you think you have lack of sleep now wait till they are older! Why she is allowed to freely wander the house and garden?! At night alone? 

Why would you supplement puppies that don't need it??  Are you weighing them daily?

So this poor girl was bullied, had a litter of pups (with the German shepherd?!) given away after having pups due to 'bullying' and at age 4 you breed her again, with what breed? No wonder she is stressed  Why did you breed her? I don't get it?


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

What saddens me about responses like this, to a new poster, is the missed opportunity to give constructive advice that might actually help the poor dog. Surely now the OP will write this forum off and another chance to educate is lost? :-(


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> What saddens me about responses like this, to a new poster, is the missed opportunity to give constructive advice that might actually help the poor dog. Surely now the OP will write this forum off and another chance to educate is lost? :-(


Or you can read a million and one other posts like this in the breeding section, where people take their time to advise those wanting to embark on the road to breeding, and then end up with a thread of a litter of pups, with no health tests in place on the parents. This is a rescue bitch for goodness sakes, she's been passed from pillar to post, bred from previously, and here she is again, with another litter of pups. Forgive me if the new owners feel a bit abashed by some honest posts on this forum, but it's the dogs I feel sorry for


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> What saddens me about responses like this, to a new poster, is the missed opportunity to give constructive advice that might actually help the poor dog. Surely now the OP will write this forum off and another chance to educate is lost? :-(


You're obviously quite new because what you'll find once you've been here a while is that people don't want educating they just want to do what they want to do. Those that don't breed again, don't do so because of education, it's because they found out it's not as easy as they thought/it's more expensive than they thought/they tried it and it's not for them/they didn't make as much as they thought they would/they didn't sell the pups as easily as they thought - I'm sure you get the picture. The one thing to remember though is that most don't want to hear anything that doesn't agree with what they WANT to do - that is the real sadness.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

DarenS said:


> However at night it is a different story. She is restless, paces the house and whines whenever the pups are disturbed or want a feed. She has also taken to letting herself out the dog flap and digging in the garden particularly in a place she seemed to be nesting before the birth.


Why aren't you sleeping with her?


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

This really saddens me, yet another BYB who wants to jump on the band wagon and who thinks its an easy way to make money,

Why on earth did you mate her, for goodness sake she's a rescue dog,who like all the other rescues was unfortunatley not wanted,. So why add more .? she shoud have been spayed, 
Have you not thought to take her to the vets to have her checked , she is stresed and crying, there maybe something wrong with her, not much good just asking the vet over the phone, she maybe in pain., shame on you.

Like others have said, you seem more concerned about your lack of sleep than your poor bitch, be prepared for more of that and lots of hard work looking after your bitch and her puppies, you bred from her ,now its your responsability to look after her and her puppies.


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

DarenS said:


> but the lack of sleep is causing some issues for the rest of the family.


To be honest lack of sleep is (should be) part and parcel of having a litter of puppies, certainly within the first few weeks. So most of us on here who have had litters aren't really going to have sympathy in that direction. I sleep close by my litters for the first week ...and I know I'm not on my own in this....and I use an alarm to ensure I check regularly until I am sure all is going well ......so lack of sleep ...the family should have been ready!

To try to answer some of your questions, well the problem is you sound as if you are breeding from a bitch whose temperamental background and previous experience you do not know and that can bring problems. (It's one of the reasons no one recommends breeding from a rescue.). Maybe your girl finds mothering a stressful or even painful experience (the restlessness/whining would suggest that) or has a medical history in this regard? I would have her vet checked (she could have an underlying infection), however, being with your bitch and trying to keep things as normal as possible would also be my advice as stress can effect her ability to nurse/produce milk.

As you say that the puppies are fed during the day, then you must obviously check (weigh) each puppy regularly to check for any failure to thrive. But watch your bitch and time the feeds ...not all bitches cope and she has a litter of ten. I hate large litters.....it usually means having two sittings (intervention). Are you feeding her up? Check her milk production. Don't bottle without good reason.

is your bitch unhappy about where the puppys are at night? Does she feel they are vulnerable? is she picking up on human stress?

Choosing to breed from our girls is something most of us do not do lightly - starting with health testing and choosing for temperament right up to being ready to give 24/7 to them once the babies appear. Therefore unfortunately as you can see, sympathy isn't going to be very forthcoming but I hope mum rallies and pups do well.

J


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

Just want to add that I do, completely, agree with all the points you are making here; it's just the way they are expressed that troubles me. I also (as a relatively new member) appreciate the frustration you must feel when you have said the same thing over, and over again.


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## DarenS (Jul 13, 2014)

Firstly, thanks for the responses. I was aware when I posted that I was summarising the position we are in, and aware that a "public forum" is just that, public and anyone can say what they want to be it right or wrong.

So some of the judgemental posts I am able to completely ignore because they have made a judgement with a lack of knowledge about me or my family and pets. 

My concern isn't the lack of sleep. 

As a family we have gone into this eyes wide open and we did speak to the previous owner to find out they believed her to have been a good mum and a natural one.

My concern is as to why there is such a difference between the day and the night and whether there was something else we could do, or something that that someone else has found to be a difference in a similar case. 

So there are a couple of issues we haven't considered, and I will try those. 

Having said that last night was a different. She managed to go through to 3 am without getting agitated. 

So for those that would like to help we have a plug in nightlight. She tends to stay in the room most of the time reacting to her pups like any good mother but she does need to toilet and we have a large garden and a dog flap so we are ensuring that although she is sleeping in the spare room things are as normal as possible. The pups have a parentage on both sides that goes back 5 generations. I am happy to learn, as I am a pet lover and this is why we wanted to go through this- we of course realise that with such a large litter we potentially will sell the pups for more than our costs but money isn't a consideration. Before and during I have read up on the whole cycle, and I have spoken to friends who have bred. The lack of sleep was anticipated (I also have kids so have been there for them as well), and have booked leave from work so ensure we are at home for her and the pups. We have spoken to the vet and she is not showing signs of infection (temp etc all normal). I admit to not having weighed the pups, but from handling etc. it is obvious they are growing and thriving. The supplemental milk was a vets suggestion as she has a large litter and it may assist her. She is feeding and drinking well, her toilet habits are fine, and she appears content in the spare room where there is a bed we use to sleep in overnight. (Hopefully covered all the suggestions and judgements made above)

So as I said, we have gone into this eyes open and there is a lot more detail than the original post mentioned. It is the change between night and day that is baffling me. She is tired and worn out like all new mums so the change in symptoms between day and night is concerning me and I was after ideas to alleviate it.


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## Hopeattheendofthetunnel (Jun 26, 2013)

I am guessing that her whelping box isn't located where she usually sleeps at night?

Which would account why she is happy to stay in this location during the day, but struggles to settle at night. Simply because she doesn't associate this place with night rest. We are all creatures of habit and dogs are no different. For example, I am quite happy to mooch about or sit in my kitchen or dining room during the day, but I would have difficulty to suddenly start sleeping there at night.

I think it is the lack of night-rest association which unsettles her.

Option 1 ( likely not feasible due ro space/hygiene restrictions): move the whelping box where she always sleeps.

Option 2 ( worth trying) make the whelping area as familiar to her usual sleeping place as you can via placing familiar items around her

Option 3 try moving the whelping box to a different location in the room she is currently in. Perhaps she gets anxious because she feels too exposed where it currently is? Maybe shifting it into a corner or adding a screen to one or several sides of the whelping box would make her feel more secure and relaxed.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Honeys mum said:


> This really saddens me, yet another BYB who wants to jump on the band wagon and who thinks its an easy way to make money,
> 
> Why on earth did you mate her, for goodness sake she's a rescue dog,who like all the other rescues was unfortunatley not wanted,. So why add more .? she shoud have been spayed,
> Have you not thought to take her to the vets to have her checked , she is stresed and crying, there maybe something wrong with her, not much good just asking the vet over the phone, she maybe in pain., shame on you.
> ...


If you had read the post properly, she did have the dog checked out by the vet



MerlinsMum said:


> Why aren't you sleeping with her?


Again its been tried.

I can be guilty for being judgmental, but its happened now so we may as well help the OP rather than making assumptions.
OP, its possible that your bitch is ok during the day but not at night because she may be getting a lot of attention during the day? Is she calm when you leave her alone during the day too?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it might be safe for her to have valerian root supplement to help her relax at night even if she's nursing.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

DarenS said:


> I am after some advice if someone has had similar issues.
> My Golden Retriever has just had a litter of 10 pups. During the day she is very attentive and is able to feed and look after them with no issues. She is also quite confident to leave them alone after just four days.
> However at night it is a different story. She is restless, paces the house and whines whenever the pups are disturbed or want a feed. She has also taken to letting herself out the dog flap and digging in the garden particularly in a place she seemed to be nesting before the birth.
> She has always been a dog that likes attention from us.
> ...


So she was a rescue, who had already had tough times, yet you felt the world was in dire need of yet more Goldens?

Shame on you.

I'm willing to bet you didn't bother getting your girl or the stud dog hip scored etc.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

My post is not intended to be judgemental - I'm just asking some questions.

Is the sire also a Golden Retriever?

If you truly did go into this with your eyes wide open, I hope that extended to researching first. I presume you are aware that the Golden Retriever is vulnerable to a host of inherited diseases that could make your pups' lives a misery if they are unfortunate enough to develop them? And that getting the dog checked over by a vet - while a commendable step - is completely insufficient by itself to find these diseases?

What I write below is for the benefit of any Googlers reading this thread. I remain optimistic until informed otherwise that you have had all of this done, and if you haven't then TBH it's too late for your litter now.

Golden Retrievers need hip and elbow scoring, which involves X-rays of the aforementioned joints. *Hip and elbow dysplasia* are rife in the breed and, while it cannot be prevented by scoring, scoring goes a long way towards trying to reduce its impact on the breed.

Golden Retrievers are prone to a vision-threatening eye disease called *Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)*. Blindness is a common consequence of this. Breeding dogs should have DNA tests done to see if they carry the gene, and all should have their retinas examined by a veterinary ophthalmologist (not a GP vet) on a regular basis (usually annual) to see if they have any signs of PRA.

Golden Retrievers are at risk of a number of different neurological and muscular diseases that can cripple them. *Degenerative myelopathy *causes a slow degeneration of the spinal cord, leading to paralysis. *Sensory ataxic neuropathy* is an insidious deficit of the proprioceptive system that causes puppies to be unaware of where their feet are; 50% are euthanased before they reach the age of three. *Muscular dystrophy* (now known as Centronuclear Myopathy in the Labrador Retriever) causes muscle wastage - and that includes the muscles of the skeleton, heart, tongue, oesophagus etc. Many are euthanased because their symptoms are incompatible with life; some die. All these diseases are preventable in a litter via DNA testing of the parents.

Golden Retrievers can also suffer with a scaling skin disease called *icythyosis*, which is also preventable via a DNA test.

I am not a breeder, but as I understand it the temperament of the parents is an important consideration as well. From what I can tell about your bitch from your posts it seems that she is a gentle creature, but it sounds as if she is getting pretty stressed at night. I hope the temperament of the sire is also good.

I can echo many of the suggestions made above - try an Adaptil plug-in to see if it helps her settle more at night. You could consider KalmAid; this is a non-medicated supplement that often helps many anxious dogs feel more relaxed. It is safe to give while she is lactating and will not sedate her. The worst case scenario is that it makes no difference, so it has to be worth a try. Being kept awake with ten puppies in the house is par for the course, really.

What are your plans for the litter? Have any got homes lined up? Make sure you vet the potential owners thoroughly - you don't want to be responsible for any of your pups ending up in crappy homes or in rescue - and be upfront with the owners about the lack of health tests if none have been carried out.

And remember that you are responsible for starting their socialisation and habituation process now so that you produce happy, well-balanced dogs.

Good luck xx


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Pedigree means nothing really unless they are resigtered, are *BOTH *parents health TESTED (NOT a vet visit) for:

Hip Dysplasia

Elbow Dysplasia

Eye Problems 
There are various conditions that Goldens are susceptible to, some very serious such as Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) and Hereditary Cataract (HC).

Golden Retriever Breed Council

We are going on what information YOU have told us, we can only go on what YOU say and reply to that, what breed was she mated to?



Wiz201 said:


> If you had read the post properly, she did have the dog checked out by the vet
> 
> *
> Again its been tried.*
> ...


It wasn't really, was it? He/she 'tried' to sleep with her for 1 night!! 1! 1 night does not a happy mum make! Need to be there 24-7 and sleep every night, certainly not free roaming as she needs the loo, you get up in the night and take her outside supervised!!


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Um, I do agree with the supervision during the night. Dog flap is great but bitches do need supervision.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I would not allow your bitch access to the outside during the night. Nursing bitches can take it into their heads to do peculiar things sometimes and you don't want her taking any of her pups outside.

Does she have access to both food and water overnight? With a litter of ten, she needs free access to both.

Is it possible she's becoming hungry overnight?

If she normally sleeps with the Family, then the change of sleeping place could well be what's upsetting her.

How old are these pups? Is Mum on a diet high in calcium and fat?

Given the size of the litter, I would begin weaning by three weeks old at the latest.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Sweety said:


> I would not allow your bitch access to the outside during the night. Nursing bitches can take it into their heads to do peculiar things sometimes and you don't want her taking any of her pups outside.


^^ This - plus it's possible she feels insecure and anxious at night.

The dog-flap is (literally!) a two-way thing. While she has the freedom to go out into the garden, there's also the chance (she thinks) that something might come in. So in her mind, it may be making her restless and unsettled as she's guarding her puppies from whatever may come in to the house via the flap, or whatever might be in the garden at night.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Wiz201 said:


> If you had read the post properly, she did have the dog checked out by the vet
> 
> Sorry, but I have just read the post again, the OP states that she had spoken to a vet about her bitch, but no mention of the vet seeing her.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Just to point out that a five generation pedigree is common place with most pedigree dogs, you can trace the pedigree back much further than that, it's nothing special, just a piece of paper that tells you who the ancestors are.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Honeys mum said:


> Wiz201 said:
> 
> 
> > If you had read the post properly, she did have the dog checked out by the vet
> ...


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## DarenS (Jul 13, 2014)

Again, thanks for the helpful replies.

Mum had a much better night, and even though awake several times (me that is) it was only to check the noisy pups mostly when they wanted a feed. Not sure what helped, or if it's the combination but the nightlight and a couple of bottle feeds did seem to let her go through the night easily.

Re the dog flap- I do have another dog as well, so don't want to let him not be able to go out, and in fairness even the night I didn't spend in the room (being opposite) we did go out with her every time she went out as she wanted to use the patio door and not the dog flap. (The other dog and the cats haven't been anywhere near the spare room since the birth)

And for the whelping box, it isn't in her usual sleeping place which is the utility and we have surrounded it on three sides to make it secure. 

So thanks again, pups doing well, and mum seems more content.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Deliberately bred a rescue? OMG, for what purpose? Money? To add to the UK rescue problem? Because you could? I despair, it makes me SO sad.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

This makes me ridiculously sad. 

I think you need to look up the definition of rescue.


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## PBR1 (Dec 16, 2013)

The OP has completely ignored the queries and comments as to breeding from a rescue dog. How irresponsible and selfish


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

So if mum can come and go at night through the flap, and other dog also has access through the flap, then the other dog has access to the pups. This should be an absolute no-no. Other dogs should be kept away for the first 2-3 weeks, and the mum should be absolutely secure that the other dog can't get near the pups.

If the mum needs the toilet in the night, you should get up and take her. Best arrangement should be a closed room with a bed for mum outside the box the pups are in; food and water on hand. And a visit or two from you during the night (or you sleeping there as well) to let her out for a pee and check all's well.


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