# Worried about Loki



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Only having had her since April I've only known her character for a few short months. Shes not a very bouncy ferret but I thought that was just her (& maybe it is). And shes never had a very good coat it seems dry & a bit patchy like shes nibbled at it - as she has always seemed especially itchy. Now I've noticed shes drinking a lot. I'm worried she has adrenal disease. Also she looked like she was getting fat & I've read a bloated stomach can be another symptom. She seems to have lost her stomach now though - it seems much slimmer to me now. I'm so concerned that I phoned the vets this morning to find my favourite vet is fully booked up tomorrow (he only does Tuesday & Thursday morning surgeries now) but she has very kindly squeezed me in. So Loki is back off to the vets tomorrow. If it turns out she does have this condition does anyone have any advice or experience to offer. Thank you.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I know nothing about ferrets, but hope Loki is back to full health soon.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Havent had experience, but there are tests you can do for Adrenal disease in ferrets.

Looking up the tests on the info from the Veterinary hormone Lab where these used to have their tests done this is what they say in their Handbook

*Adrenal Disease In Ferrets*
Adrenal disease is commonly seen in ferrets over 3 years old and is caused by adrenal gland tumours often associated with the left adrenal gland (60% - 70%). Females appear to be more affected than males (70%). Clinical signs include significant hair loss, muscle wastage, aggression and vulval enlargement in females.

Diagnosis can be confirmed by assaying the adrenal sex hormones, oestradiol (E2), 17-Hydroxy-Progesterone (OHP) and cortisol (Ferret Adrenal Profile).

Additional diagnostic information may also be obtained by adding Androstenedione to the above hormones (Ferret Adrenal Profile PLUS). Cortisol alone is not a good diagnostic test for ferret adrenal neoplasia. Often the tumour has differentiated in such a way that cortisol is not its principal product.


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## SarahBugz (Mar 14, 2011)

I have no experience myself but maybe speak to Sara again at Prospect Ferret rescue? I know my Ferrets companion had it before she sadly passed (before I adopted her from Sara) and I'm sure with the sheer volume of ferrets they have coming and going she may be able to offer you some sound advice.

Wasn't she just spayed? Did the vet give her a clean bill off health then? If they were spaying her wouldn't they have noticed a tumour? Hope all is ok!

I know Frankie's fur was dry just before she blew her coat and she gets a bald scaley patch on her side. She tends to be very itchy scratchy in general but I'm sure someone told me once that that is just a ferret thing? When I took Frankie to the vets for her skin and bald patch they suggested a flea allergy. They frontlined her but it didn't seem to either make it better or worse. It is getting a bit warmer so maybe that can account for the extra water drinking. Frankie drinks loads!!

Let us know how you get on at the vets tomorrow!! I had Frankie there 3 times in the first few weeks of owning her. I know how worrying they can be!


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## Tomskrat (Aug 11, 2011)

Neutering can have a massive effect on their coats. None of mine have ever had as smooth a coat as before they were neutered. Ferrets also moult and lose weight during the summer making some look a little scraggy. Hope you get a all clear from the vets


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## Babyshoes (Jul 1, 2016)

I do hope it turns out to be nothing, or at least nothing much. Glad you could squeeze in with the vet tomorrow!

She's quite young, isn't she? Adrenal usually (though not always) occurs in older ferrets, about 4 or older I believe. These days it's easy to treat with the implant, though I'm not sure how that would work on the juvenile onset version, which as I recall is a slightly different thing.

One very clear sign that you didn't mention is thinning (then balding) of the fur around the base of the tail, which gradually spreads over the whole body if not treated. I hadn't seen it before Irix got it, but just from reading a description I recognised it immediately. The vet agreed with me & didn't bother with tests (which are quite expensive), just went straight for the implant, & said if that didn't work *then* she'd investigate... Well, it worked just fine & his fur grew back when he next moulted, though it seems to be wearing off a little early. I'm not worried though, if he needs a new one every 14 months instead of 18, so be it! I'll see if I can get a clear picture of the thinning area by his tail so you can compare.

Honestly though, I expect for Loki it's probably hormonal disruption from the spey, I did miss my babies' soft fluff once they'd been neutered...


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Thank you so much everybody for taking the time to respond x

Yes she was only spayed a month ago & had been doing brilliantly up until now. But I've found fleas on her! On Tuesday night I thought I saw one run through her fur, so we immediately treated her with beapher spot on. Then yesterday I sat her on my knee & wearing my best glasses had a good look though her fur & must have seen 5 fleas! Still very much alive despite her being treated (should they be? or does it take time to kill them?). I got one of the dogs flea combs & managed to get 4 fat fleas off her. I feel so bad because I intended to treat her as a precaution, as advised by @Frolicking Ferrets. But because her fur is so sparse & I could find no evidence of fleas I held off using the spot on. Big mistake, & poor Loki is suffering for it. I feel so guilty. I'm just hoping it is solely down to fleas though & not AD as well. I'm still taking her to see my vet. The appointment is for 10 this morning. Thank you all again, so much.

By the way @SarahBugz , I did call Sara at the beginning of the week because I was worried Loki wasn't right. I had gone into the shed to her & she was asleep on top of a blanket & she didn't wake up, when I picked her up she was all floppy & unresponsive. I thought she was dying! I flew in the house to tell my hubby who came running up the garden in a panic & when we got in the shed she was sat up looking at us lol. Sara assured me this is normal behaviour & it still frightens her to death when she finds one of her ferrets in such a deep sleep.


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## SarahBugz (Mar 14, 2011)

Ahh.... yes.... this has got me too a couple of times! It also happened when I went away for a couple of nights and my housemate was feeding her for me. Sara is amazing!!

I have no experience of the Bephar spot on for fleas but I'm funny with flea stuff. I will only buy what the vets recommend. Before I split from my partner and moved etc... we had a massive 5ft marine fish tank. We treated the animals regularly as a precaution because I am allergic to flea bites and we were would have been unable to treat the house had any managed to sneak in. From what I understand the fleas should act docile and eventually die once they jump on and bite an animal that's been treated. They shouldn't still be very lively. Last time I went to the vets they gave Frankie Frontline for cats.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Update on her vet visit. He had a good feel of her & couldn't feel anything abnormal. He took her temperature, which was very slightly up. He too said her it could be her hormones because she had just been spayed. He did give her a shot of antibiotics just incase she was coming down with an infection. He was reluctant to treat her for fleas so soon after we'd treated her - he did think the fleas shouldn't still be running around though. I've to see how she goes on & if she doesn't seem any better I've to take her back after the weekend. She was so good., even when he was taking her temperature she never tried to bite.



SarahBugz said:


> Ahh.... yes.... this has got me too a couple of times! It also happened when I went away for a couple of nights and my housemate was feeding her for me. Sara is amazing!!
> 
> I have no experience of the Bephar spot on for fleas but I'm funny with flea stuff. I will only buy what the vets recommend. Before I split from my partner and moved etc... we had a massive 5ft marine fish tank. We treated the animals regularly as a precaution because I am allergic to flea bites and we were would have been unable to treat the house had any managed to sneak in. From what I understand the fleas should act docile and eventually die once they jump on and bite an animal that's been treated. They shouldn't still be very lively. Last time I went to the vets they gave Frankie Frontline for cats.


So scary isn't it Sara is amazing, you can tell that even over the phone 

I couldn't see any on her today, but I'm going to keep combing her with the flea comb and see if I can find anymore. Thank you so much for your input Sarah x


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## Babyshoes (Jul 1, 2016)

Glad the vet visit went well, just keep an eye on her coat over time I guess. Sorry I didn't manage to get a decent photo of Irix's balding bum yesterday to show you!

I've heard that some types of fleas are becoming resistant to some of the over the counter spot on treatments, which might explain why they are still active on her. We use stronghold puppy & kitten, (half a pipette each for the girls if they weigh under 1kg) which is prescription only. It seems to work but isn't cheap! Might be worth a discussion with your vet if she still has fleas in a while.

I think every ferret owner has had that moment of panic when they first encounter the "dead ferret sleep". Still gives me a little rush of worry, but now I know to look for breathing first! It can be quite funny once you're used to it...


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## Frolicking Ferrets (Mar 1, 2016)

Sorry for my late reply, so sorry!............. I have had one case of adrenal disease in an entire hob, he dramatically lost loads of weight and went almost bald, his abdomen though didn't bloat much. The increased drinking is a sign of adrenal disease but becaus its summer and the weather is generally warmer, she could just be trying to keep hydrated so she doesn't get heat stroke. So I doubt it's AD since she's only just been spayed and lives outdoors not in the house with artificial light which can increase the chance if AD.
Fleas though, I've never used beaphar to treat fleas since my ferrets have never had them despite being working ferrets, I have used it as a preventative to fleas though and it seems to work for preventing them. If Loki has fleas, your other furbaby will likely have them as well so what you'll want to do is (After the beaphar is out if the ferrets' systems) :
Put them in a cat carrier.
Clean out the enclosure (bin everything including the bedding) and hose it.
Soak the enclosure with forumular H (Best cleaner for pets ever!), it'll kill any germs, viruses as well as the flea eggs and fleas that may be in the enclosure, jet wash it again to get the cleaner out, you'll be surprised with how much dirt comes off.
Bath the ferrets and use cat flea shampoo.
Put new bedding and stuff into the enclosure, after its air dried.
And treat the ferrets with Advocate cat and ferret spot on before putting them back into the enclosure.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Babyshoes said:


> Glad the vet visit went well, just keep an eye on her coat over time I guess. Sorry I didn't manage to get a decent photo of Irix's balding bum yesterday to show you!
> 
> I've heard that some types of fleas are becoming resistant to some of the over the counter spot on treatments, which might explain why they are still active on her. We use stronghold puppy & kitten, (half a pipette each for the girls if they weigh under 1kg) which is prescription only. It seems to work but isn't cheap! Might be worth a discussion with your vet if she still has fleas in a while.
> 
> I think every ferret owner has had that moment of panic when they first encounter the "dead ferret sleep". Still gives me a little rush of worry, but now I know to look for breathing first! It can be quite funny once you're used to it...


Thank you so much. No worries about the picture, I've just taken these of Loki to see how they compare with Irix's fur loss. They're not very good I'm afraid :/. But will try to get some clearer ones.











And this is how her fur has grown back on her belly after her spay 





Frolicking Ferrets said:


> Sorry for my late reply, so sorry!............. I have had one case of adrenal disease in an entire hob, he dramatically lost loads of weight and went almost bald, his abdomen though didn't bloat much. The increased drinking is a sign of adrenal disease but becaus its summer and the weather is generally warmer, she could just be trying to keep hydrated so she doesn't get heat stroke. So I doubt it's AD since she's only just been spayed and lives outdoors not in the house with artificial light which can increase the chance if AD.
> Fleas though, I've never used beaphar to treat fleas since my ferrets have never had them despite being working ferrets, I have used it as a preventative to fleas though and it seems to work for preventing them. If Loki has fleas, your other furbaby will likely have them as well so what you'll want to do is (After the beaphar is out if the ferrets' systems) :
> Put them in a cat carrier.
> Clean out the enclosure (bin everything including the bedding) and hose it.
> ...


Hiya FF, aw no need to apologise x

Her fur is sparse but she hasn't gone bald as such, it just looks really short in areas. Shes really slimmed down to me, although when I took her to the vets last week he weighed her & said she'd only lost a little weight - nothing to worry about. But shes completely gone off her dried food & she used to love it. Out of desperation I tried her with day old chicks & she ate every bit! Shes now having two per day. Will these alone be alright for her?. I found a recipe for that 'duck soup' & tried syringe feeding her that. She just held it in her mouth & then cached it! lol Hence why I got some chicks. She definitely seems much brighter in herself now though. Shes just been playing with me in fact . I'm still taking her back to the vets on Thursday & I'll ask for a prescription for some advocate  - luckily I haven't used the beapher drops on Jango anyway.

I've just had a look on ebay & ordered some formula H. I have been washing the bedding & cleaning out their enclosures regularly but when this arrives I'll treat them both with advocate & give things a super thorough clean. And hopefully that will be the end of the fleas!

I was going to having a chat with my vet about getting both Loki & Jango the deslorelin implant as recommended by these vets (& others). http://towcester-vets.co.uk/small-animal/information-for-pet-owners/ferrets/ Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## Frolicking Ferrets (Mar 1, 2016)

Looks like she's shedding her winter coat off like Nancy has been doing, Loki's new coat underneath shouldn't come out if you gently pull at it and will be a very bright white colour compared to the rest of her coat. Nancy is a white smooth coat ferret at the moment lol XD 

As for the implant, well its optional but generally people don't do it when they ferrets are neutered unless they've been blood tested and diagnosed for adrenal disease.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Frolicking Ferrets said:


> Looks like she's shedding her winter coat off like Nancy has been doing, Loki's new coat underneath shouldn't come out if you gently pull at it and will be a very bright white colour compared to the rest of her coat. Nancy is a white smooth coat ferret at the moment lol XD
> 
> As for the implant, well its optional but generally people don't do it when they ferrets are neutered unless they've been blood tested and diagnosed for adrenal disease.


Oh I feel much happier now. When they shed, they really shed! don't they? I honestly thought her fur loss was abnormal, it looked so bad. But underneath there is definitely new coat & her skin looks nice & healthy. Thank you FF & thank you for your thoughts on the implant


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## Babyshoes (Jul 1, 2016)

noushka05 said:


> Thank you so much. No worries about the picture, I've just taken these of Loki to see how they compare with Irix's fur loss. They're not very good I'm afraid :/. But will try to get some clearer ones.
> 
> I was going to having a chat with my vet about getting both Loki & Jango the deslorelin implant as recommended by these vets (& others). http://towcester-vets.co.uk/small-animal/information-for-pet-owners/ferrets/ Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


I agree that looks more like coat shedding than adrenal hair loss to me - it's quite spread out compared to what I'm seeing on Irix, so I don't think you need to worry. You will know it when you see it, it's very obvious and localised to the spot above the tail. You would also then want to check for swelling of the vulva, which is also very obvious if you've ever seen a ferret in heat.

Cute photos, by the way. 

I personally wouldn't use the implant in a castrated or speyed ferret unless there was an adrenal diagnosis, but it really is something you need to decide with your vet. If your vet is not fully conversant with the latest theories, you can always ask them to contact a specialist for advice.

Bear in mind it is an ongoing cost for the life of your ferrets - not that cost should be a deciding factor in necessary treatment, but to me it seems expensive for a 'just in case' preventative, when the condition it is guarding against is fairly easily treatable these days. If adrenal was still as nasty as it used to be before we could treat it with the implant, then I'd definitely go for it...


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Babyshoes said:


> I agree that looks more like coat shedding than adrenal hair loss to me - it's quite spread out compared to what I'm seeing on Irix, so I don't think you need to worry. You will know it when you see it, it's very obvious and localised to the spot above the tail. You would also then want to check for swelling of the vulva, which is also very obvious if you've ever seen a ferret in heat.
> 
> Cute photos, by the way.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much @Babyshoes , no her vulva hasn't been swollen. And thankfully shes pretty much back to her old self now. Munching on her biscuits & rolling around playing lol. Shes also been telling Jango off when he gets on her nerves  I'm feeling much happier about her now, so much so that I cancelled that appointment I had with my vet  Thank you also for your input on having the implant, I will speak to my vet about it but I'm I don't feel panicked into getting them done now 

She is a cutie, isn't she? lol She has a very distinctive wonky little nose


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## Babyshoes (Jul 1, 2016)

Oh good, I'm glad she's feeling better now, it's worrying when they can't tell you what's wrong...


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Babyshoes said:


> Oh good, I'm glad she's feeling better now, it's worrying when they can't tell you what's wrong...


It is worrying & especially so as I'm very new to ferrets. Thank you for all your help, you've been great!


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## Babyshoes (Jul 1, 2016)

No problem, I still have vet visits where the unofficial diagnosis is "worried mummy syndrome"! Fewer now though, especially as I now have the type of relationship with my vet where I can ring her up for non urgent stuff & say " this is what I see & how I've treated it so far, should I keep an eye on it or should I come in? "

The most recent one was a few months ago just before we went on holiday - Duke had landed awkwardly after war dancing off the sofa, & bashed his face pretty hard on the leg of my new table. He soon had a nice big bump on the side of his nose, which was still big & tender to touch over a week later. Usually I would have just kept an eye on it for another week or so as it wasn't bothering him, but as he was about to spend a month in boarding I didn't want to risk it turning out to be serious... Official diagnosis was " a nasty bruise" which was what I expected, but at least I wasn't worrying about him on holiday!

ETA: Ferrets for Dummies was very useful when I was a new ferret owner, though some of the info is now out of date. For more in-depth medical stuff, I have a book called ferret husbandry, medicine & surgery by John. H. Lewington which is a bit beyond me at times but still useful for some things.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Babyshoes said:


> No problem, I still have vet visits where the unofficial diagnosis is "worried mummy syndrome"! Fewer now though, especially as I now have the type of relationship with my vet where I can ring her up for non urgent stuff & say " this is what I see & how I've treated it so far, should I keep an eye on it or should I come in? "
> 
> The most recent one was a few months ago just before we went on holiday - Duke had landed awkwardly after war dancing off the sofa, & bashed his face pretty hard on the leg of my new table. He soon had a nice big bump on the side of his nose, which was still big & tender to touch over a week later. Usually I would have just kept an eye on it for another week or so as it wasn't bothering him, but as he was about to spend a month in boarding I didn't want to risk it turning out to be serious... Official diagnosis was " a nasty bruise" which was what I expected, but at least I wasn't worrying about him on holiday!
> 
> ETA: Ferrets for Dummies was very useful when I was a new ferret owner, though some of the info is now out of date. For more in-depth medical stuff, I have a book called ferret husbandry, medicine & surgery by John. H. Lewington which is a bit beyond me at times but still useful for some things.


You sound like you have a really nice vet  I do too, but unfortunately he isn't always easy to get hold of as he only does two morning surgeries a week now. There are other good vets at the practice but my favourite vet has given outstanding care to my pets over the years - I trust him completely.

I'm glad Duke was ok. I get frightened to death when Jango war dances in inappropriate places! My heart is often in my mouth that hes going to fall & hurt himself too. Such funny little animals they are when they dance lol

I have the Ferrets for Dummies book & I'll look out for the other one. Sounds like it could be handy. Thanks


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