# malamute aggression towards baby



## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Hi have 2 year old male malamute and we have a 5 month old baby. 
My malamute had a few issues as a puppy with air snapping and growling which we ironed out with a lot of training but now the baby is he all this has suddenly come back but a lot worse.
We have them seperated with a baby gate but now the mal gaurds outside the baby gate and when we want to come out he will growl/ bear his teeth at you and 50% of the time air snap or in some cases get hold of your jumper etc.
We have introduced them so he can get used to the baby but now it's starting to move about more he has snapped at the baby a couple of times now so we keep them apart.
I have a malamute trainer coming saturday from a malamute rescue centre and she has seen clips I have recorded of him doing it and she has recommended rehoming him with them for the safety of the baby as this seems to be his problem but am finding this a really hard choice to make as I love him to bits but can I trust him as the baby gets older.
Any advice welcome


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Children always come first.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2014)

Hi mattyh3, what a terrible situation 

Nobody can advise you definitively based on one internet post, without seeing the dog in person, seeing the dog and family interact etc. 

It does sound dire from your post, but every once in a while a dire situation with a dog and kid has a simple, fairly straightforward fix that makes it not so dire. I dont want you to get false hope though. If a breed rescue person is suggesting you give the dog up, its probably wise to listen.

Alternately, you could have a credentialed behaviorist come in and evaluate the dog. You would need a vet referral first, and a vet visit and thorough health check including blood work on this dog is probably a good idea anyway.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

We have had the odd occasion with him before the baby came along of snapping but we got a trainer and it seemed to of solved it but then he started been aggressive towards my neighbour for no reason when in the back yard and he was always playful with them until this one time I heard him growling and went out to see and he was up and he was up on the wall with his teeth showing.
But now with the issue with the baby he has taken up issue with me and my partner aswell and sometimes we can't even touch him when he is laid down or when he is sat near you he growls. He was never like this this before, 
Just a totally different dog now the baby is here.


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## jayelle (Jan 5, 2014)

I am sorry, but as much as I loved my dog, in circumstances like this I would not hesitate. My baby would come first. The dog would not remain in my home nor would he be passed on to another one where there was the slightest chance he could seriously harm somone.

A family friend had a dog who became aggressive towards his children. He rehomed the dog through a reputable rescue organisation, but somehow this dog slipped through the net and was found wandering in another part of the country. It was taken in by a recue organisation who rehomed it, almost immediately to a family without knowing anything about the dog's history or any potential problems.

The dog attacked and killed the new owners' small child. We had all heard the story on TV about the child being killed, but our friend did not in any way connect it with the dog which he had rehomed. Not until the police came knocking on his door as he was still registered on the microchip data base as the dog's owner. 

I have purposely left out the breed of the dog, but I do know it. (It was not a Mal.)


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

mattyh3 said:


> We have had the odd occasion with him before the baby came along of snapping but we got a trainer and it seemed to of solved it but then he started been aggressive towards my neighbour for no reason when in the back yard and he was always playful with them until this one time I heard him growling and went out to see and he was up and he was up on the wall with his teeth showing.
> But now with the issue with the baby he has taken up issue with me and my partner aswell and sometimes we can't even touch him when he is laid down or when he is sat near you he growls. He was never like this this before,
> Just a totally different dog now the baby is here.


Malamute temperament speaking generally should be good with all people and kids, the main reason they are not often not recommended with small kids is often usually due to sheer size and being boisterous and the fact they can play very roughly kids could get knocked about or injured by accident.

Its good that you are getting someone from Mal rescue to assess him and the situation, so once they have been then at least they will have a better idea how serious a problem it is and can advise if anything can be done as regards to re-training and behaviour modification. At the moment though from what you say the situation is far from acceptable and is a worry with a small baby.

I one suggestion I would make which is worth doing as it is a large problem in the Malamute is to have him thyroid tested. Although breeders don't tend to do it so much in the UK in the states they thyroid test prior to breeding as there can be an auto immune version that has genetic tendencies, and can make an appearance before three years old and often in dogs one year old or less. You need a full thyroid function panel, not just the total T4 which vets often do but Free T4, Total T4, T3, and TSH and the TGAA thyroglobulin auto antibodies. Low thyroid hormones can affect behaviour, as regards as nervous, fearful or aggressive behaviour too. Taking him breed and age into consideration its well worth doing. If it should be that then its an easily treated condition by giving thyroid hormone replacement on a daily basis.

More on how Thyroid can affect behaviour below:-

Are your dogs seizures caused by Canine Epilepsy or Autoimmune Thyroiditis?

Behavioral changes associated with thyroid dysfunction in dogs.

Ignore the mention of seizures in the first title its about behaviour changes as well as seizures which low thyroid hormone levels can also cause.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Malamute temperament speaking generally should be good with all people and kids, the main reason they are not often not recommended with small kids is often usually due to sheer size and being boisterous and the fact they can play very roughly kids could get knocked about or injured by accident.
> 
> Its good that you are getting someone from Mal rescue to assess him and the situation, so once they have been then at least they will have a better idea how serious a problem it is and can advise if anything can be done as regards to re-training and behaviour modification. At the moment though from what you say the situation is far from acceptable and is a worry with a small baby.
> 
> ...


thank you for the information.. i have copied this and emailed it to the women at the malamute rescue centre to see what she thinks before she comes saturday as we are looking at re homing at the minute as its become a trust issue now with him and i would like to think he could get a second chance somewhere with some guidance from them but at the minute i will have to put up with this for another 3 months until they could take him and hope nothing happens and i have to put him to sleep as my baby is starting to crawl around now.


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## Sweetie wheatie (Jan 2, 2014)

I have been in your shoes. We had a rescue wheaten ( lived with my mum) and he hated cats so when my 1st child was a baby he was kept away as when she was there as baby noises would set him of on prey mode. Things settled for a while when she was bigger but when she was about 2 he started pushing her over and growling at her. I was pregnant at the time and so we knew that it would get worse when the 2nd baby arrived so he had to go back to the dog's trust. It was heart breaking but I am confident that he would have harmed a baby and made sure that the rescue centre knew that. It's too much of a risk to take that your guard could be down and the worst could happen. It's no life for anybody  good luck with your decision.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

mattyh3 said:


> thank you for the information.. i have copied this and emailed it to the women at the malamute rescue centre to see what she thinks before she comes saturday as we are looking at re homing at the minute as its become a trust issue now with him and i would like to think he could get a second chance somewhere with some guidance from them but at the minute i will have to put up with this for another 3 months until they could take him and hope nothing happens and i have to put him to sleep as my baby is starting to crawl around now.


My heart aches for you - but you cannot risk your baby. If anything ever happened, you child could not only be badly hurt, but your dog would end up PTS and you would never be able to live with yourself knowing that you could have taken avoiding action.

Praying that the breed rescue can help, and he gets a good home with adults/much older children only.

BTW you may not have as much time as you hope. A lot of babies can roll and wiggle about long before they can crawl. Keep your eyes open when he gets active.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

lostbear said:


> My heart aches for you - but you cannot risk your baby. If anything ever happened, you child could not only be badly hurt, but your dog would end up PTS and you would never be able to live with yourself knowing that you could have taken avoiding action.
> 
> Praying that the breed rescue can help, and he gets a good home with adults/much older children only.
> 
> BTW you may not have as much time as you hope. A lot of babies can roll and wiggle about long before they can crawl. Keep your eyes open when he gets active.


the dog was fine until the baby started to move about and the first time he snapped at him, he was in his car seat, the dog sniffed him, baby moved and set his toy off and teeth came out and snapped but i was right next to him and had to get a bit physical with the dog to push him away while snarling and grawling at me and getting the dog out the room was the next challenge as when he gets in that mode he will not budge anywhere, but in all there has been 3 occasions now over 3 weeks, so i think it will be the heartbreaking choice to give him up but i have offered the rescue centre money every month as donation or to buy and send his food to them for aslong as they have one as i dont think i could have a dog again after this.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

mattyh3 said:


> the dog was fine until the baby started to move about and the first time he snapped at him, he was in his car seat, the dog sniffed him, baby moved and set his toy off and teeth came out and snapped but i was right next to him and had to get a bit physical with the dog to push him away while snarling and grawling at me and getting the dog out the room was the next challenge as when he gets in that mode he will not budge anywhere, but in all there has been 3 occasions now over 3 weeks, so i think it will be the heartbreaking choice to give him up but i have offered the rescue centre money every month as donation or to buy and send his food to them for aslong as they have one as i dont think i could have a dog again after this.


I know how you must feel - and certainly while you feel so upset, and you baby is so small, I think that you are right not to think about another dog, but one day you may change your mind. From what you say, you really need tp re-home him as soon as possible.

And please don't blame yourself - sometimes despite all we try, things don't work out. As another poster has said, there may be a medical reason for his intolerance of your baby - but even if it were so, you can't take any risks as it would take time to test him, and for any medication to take effect.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

mattyh3 said:


> the dog was fine until the baby started to move about and the first time he snapped at him, he was in his car seat, the dog sniffed him, baby moved and set his toy off and teeth came out and snapped but i was right next to him and had to get a bit physical with the dog to push him away while snarling and grawling at me and getting the dog out the room was the next challenge as when he gets in that mode he will not budge anywhere, but in all there has been 3 occasions now over 3 weeks, so i think it will be the heartbreaking choice to give him up but i have offered the rescue centre money every month as donation or to buy and send his food to them for aslong as they have one as i dont think i could have a dog again after this.


Dogs who have never been introduced to babies and toddlers when young can actually find them very unnerving and it can stress a dog whos not used to them out. One of the most common times is when they start to get more mobile, or as toddlers start to walk, a lot of the problems tend to be the unpredictable sudden noises and crying they make, and the unsteady unpredictable sudden movements.

Dogs when unnerved, stressed or anxious can also become snappy and volatile too. What may also be stressing the dog further is the change to his routine and being excluded. At the moment you don't have any choice but to separate them for safetys sake especially as you said when he has access he will start to snap at the baby then its re-directed to yourself when you try to remove him and have a devil of a job removing him at that. If you have had 3 episodes in as many weeks, then you do need to keep them apart. Saturday is not too far away, and hopefully the Mal rescue person will be able to tell you more after assessment.

It is probably worth still doing the thyroid test though. Bloods do have to be sent away to an endocrine specialist lab and it can take a few days or even up to a week for the whole panel results to come back.


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## jayelle (Jan 5, 2014)

My heart aches for you but please, I beg you, don't wait too long, for the sake of your baby.

The story I told was absolutely true, not scaremongering. Although our friends made the situation quite clear to the rescue organisation what the problem was, that dog still managed to end up in a home with small children and in less than week a toddler was dead.

Our friends blame themselves and feel that had they had their dog put to sleep instead of placing him in "rescue" that child would still be alive.

I love dogs. I have lived with them my whole life, brought up children and now grandchildren with dogs. When you are a parent and a pet owner, sometimes tough decisions have to be made.

I may be wrong, but reading through your posts it sounds that the situation is already critical. Are you confident you can keep you dog away from the baby 100% of the time until you come to a decision?
If not, is there a breed rescue organisation who can take you dog in until you have decided what further steps to take?

I wish you well.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Dogs who have never been introduced to babies and toddlers when young can actually find them very unnerving and it can stress a dog whos not used to them out. One of the most common times is when they start to get more mobile, or as toddlers start to walk, a lot of the problems tend to be the unpredictable sudden noises and crying they make, and the unsteady unpredictable sudden movements.
> 
> Dogs when unnerved, stressed or anxious can also become snappy and volatile too. What may also be stressing the dog further is the change to his routine and being excluded. At the moment you don't have any choice but to separate them for safetys sake especially as you said when he has access he will start to snap at the baby then its re-directed to yourself when you try to remove him and have a devil of a job removing him at that. If you have had 3 episodes in as many weeks, then you do need to keep them apart. Saturday is not too far away, and hopefully the Mal rescue person will be able to tell you more after assessment.
> 
> It is probably worth still doing the thyroid test though. Bloods do have to be sent away to an endocrine specialist lab and it can take a few days or even up to a week for the whole panel results to come back.


The problem stays when we have them seperated with a tall baby gate between the rooms. He starts growling when we want to come out sometimes and I think he senses that it makes me feel uncomfortable. 
But I know 100% if he got help and we kept him he has always been mardy when he is laid asleep or resting, he will know when someone is coming near him and will give you a little growl to say go away and I know when the baby would be older we would get bad problem with that.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

So sorry to hear of the problems with your dog and baby but rest assured if the lady visiting is coming from the AMCUK rescue she will give an honest opinion and a very experienced one too. It seems she already thinks it isn't worth risking trying to train your boy because of your young baby and I believe she is quite right. As a breed specific rescue they will want what's best for your dog as &#373;ell as for you and he will go into foster care not a kennel, where he can be further assessed with his reaction to people in general. Any breed specific Mal rescue will have his interests very much at heart because they care very much about the breed and in some cases a working home may be best for a dog with potential issues, keeping them active and focused plus doing what they do best. 

Please keep us updated on what she says and for the sake of your baby I really hope she suggests taking him for re home. They will do their very best for him because the know and love the breed first and foremost.

ETA - I am currently in the process of becoming a home assessor for AMCUK rest assured that your boy will never be placed in a home with young children, in fact even Mals without 'issues' aren't, children have to be at least fourteen years of age due the size of the dog and potential injury from boisterousness. What happened in the case of the re homed dog above would never happen with AMCUK and I doubt any other Mal specific rescue.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Malmum said:


> So sorry to hear of the problems with your dog and baby but rest assured if the lady visiting is coming from the AMCUK rescue she will give an honest opinion and a very experienced one too. It seems she already thinks it isn't worth risking trying to train your boy because of your young baby and I believe she is quite right. As a breed specific rescue they will want what's best for your dog as ŵell as for you and he will go into foster care not a kennel, where he can be further assessed with his reaction to people in general. Any breed specific Mal rescue will have his interests very much at heart because they care very much about the breed and in some cases a working home may be best for a dog with potential issues, keeping them active and focused plus doing what they do best.
> 
> Please keep us updated on what she says and for the sake of your baby I really hope she suggests taking him for re home. They will do their very best for him because the know and love the breed first and foremost.


Hi I did try to private message you because I have asked you stuff before... yeah it is amcuk and the women seems ok but sometimes seems to be blaming me and my partner for his behaviour but we will see what she has to say to me on saturday but she thinks I will have to keep him for 3 months yet.
he has always been a little grumpy but all this has happened over the last 4-5 weeks and one thing my partner dint tell me was that he snapped at one of her friends face when he sat next to her and she cuddled him, he growled and snapped at her


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

mattyh3 said:


> The problem stays when we have them seperated with a tall baby gate between the rooms. He starts growling when we want to come out sometimes and I think he senses that it makes me feel uncomfortable.
> But I know 100% if he got help and we kept him he has always been mardy when he is laid asleep or resting, he will know when someone is coming near him and will give you a little growl to say go away and I know when the baby would be older we would get bad problem with that.


If you suddenly shock a dog awake they will often growl or even air snap through the sudden surprise/shock, but if she has always done it even when resting and not asleep, plus he is constantly growling at you when you come and go and his not even near the baby as he is separated by the gate, then it sounds like his behaviour likely isn't just centred around the baby and there are a few other things going on too. Although I hate to say it the more mobile the baby becomes too the likelihood of him becoming worse is probably accurate. Malamutes can be pushy and challenging and can and will try sometimes to see what they can get away with, particularly at certain ages.

I really feel for you its a dire awful situation to be in, but with a young baby you cant take any chances. The thought of having to give any of these up in a similar situation is awful so I know just how you feel.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> If you suddenly shock a dog awake they will often growl or even air snap through the sudden surprise/shock, but if she has always done it even when resting and not asleep, plus he is constantly growling at you when you come and go and his not even near the baby as he is separated by the gate, then it sounds like his behaviour likely isn't just centred around the baby and there are a few other things going on too. Although I hate to say it the more mobile the baby becomes too the likelihood of him becoming worse is probably accurate. Malamutes can be pushy and challenging and can and will try sometimes to see what they can get away with, particularly at certain ages.
> 
> I really feel for you its a dire awful situation to be in, but with a young baby you cant take any chances. The thought of having to give any of these up in a similar situation is awful so I know just how you feel.


The growling while resting/laid awake started after an operation at the vets he seemed to become protective of himself when he came home and it has been like that since and I know if the baby went near him he would snap at it. So since then we have always left him be until he gets up and comes over to us. 
But he will be good as gold when the Mal rescue person comes Saturday, he always was when we had a home trainer for him never did anything wrong when she wad here and he will listen to your commands but sometimes he plays ignorant and mainly when this aggressive side comes out


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Have you taken any video of his behavior toward Baby?


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

lorilu said:


> Have you taken any video of his behavior toward Baby?


Hi I have got some clips of his behaviour when where coming out the room and sent it to mal Mal rescue centre but not towards the baby as he does it inches from the baby and wouldn't attempt trying to video that


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

mattyh3 said:


> The growling while resting/laid awake started after an operation at the vets he seemed to become protective of himself when he came home and it has been like that since and I know if the baby went near him he would snap at it. So since then we have always left him be until he gets up and comes over to us.
> But he will be good as gold when the Mal rescue person comes Saturday, he always was when we had a home trainer for him never did anything wrong when she wad here and he will listen to your commands but sometimes he plays ignorant and mainly when this aggressive side comes out


The fact that he seemed to react when approached after being in the vets for an operation and its continued since makes me wonder how he was manhandled in the vets during the procedure, either that or a mix of any pain he associates with the procedure and operation its possible.

It also makes me wonder as he was also good every time the trainer came if there is an element of him challenging and trying on so see what he can get away with especially in light of what you say about him following commands but if he gets it into his head he doesn't want to do something he will then become snappy. What methods did your trainer use just out of interest. They can become stroppy and dig their heels in when they decide they don't want to do something, that's why early socialisation and obedience training is so important with a Malamute and it needs to be ongoing right through and well into adulthood. Often too towards the end of the first year and right through the second until they turn three is often the hardest time with them.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Just off out Matt but wanted to say AMCUK have so many dogs brought to them when a baby arrives, just like lots of rescues, that she may assume you're a bit fed up with him and using his aggression as an excuse - people often do. I know that's not the case here and so will she when she visits, I'm only saying 'perhaps' that's the case but it could well be nothing to do with you or your boy and she's just overloaded after the Christmas period - its a frustrating time for all rescues unfortunately and Mals are taken in when youg because they are a difficult breed until they settle at about two/three years of age. I bet the first question she asked was 'have you spoken to the breeder' lol, I took one of my pups back at two because a baby came along and they said he'd turned aggressive, when I went to pick him up he was alone downstairs (three storey town house with garage on ground floor) all his family were upstairs and his bed, bowl and toys were in the garage, his coat was matted he'd been totally deserted and went banana's when he saw my son and I, it was heartbreaking for us and rescue see this all the time.  Found him a perfect home on the Mal forum and had a visit from him last year, all the way from Stockport.  

She'll soon see that your boy is not treated like that and he'll probably show some dislike towards her as she's a stranger, if he doesn't it'll mean he either likes her or knows she's not bothered by him. Be interesting to see


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> The fact that he seemed to react when approached after being in the vets for an operation and its continued since makes me wonder how he was manhandled in the vets during the procedure, either that or a mix of any pain he associates with the procedure and operation its possible.
> 
> It also makes me wonder as he was also good every time the trainer came if there is an element of him challenging and trying on so see what he can get away with especially in light of what you say about him following commands but if he gets it into his head he doesn't want to do something he will then become snappy. What methods did your trainer use just out of interest. They can become stroppy and dig their heels in when they decide they don't want to do something, that's why early socialisation and obedience training is so important with a Malamute and it needs to be ongoing right through and well into adulthood. Often too towards the end of the first year and right through the second until they turn three is often the hardest time with them.


We got the training for his food aggression problem and to boundary train ( we have a training bag with chain in it for ccorrection and a bahhh growl to correct bad behaviour), he was mixed with another mal and siberian husky while growing up for walks etc and that has all worked and he was fine,, but the problem of this snapping at us and baby have only started in last 4-5weeks now the baby is making more movement's and noise. Even my neighbours who he used to be playful with he growls at.
But my main issue is the snapping at my baby and thats a step to far


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

mattyh3 said:


> We got the training for his food aggression problem and to boundary train ( we have a training bag with chain in it for ccorrection and a bahhh growl to correct bad behaviour), he was mixed with another mal and siberian husky while growing up for walks etc and that has all worked and he was fine,, but the problem of this snapping at us and baby have only started in last 4-5weeks now the baby is making more movement's and noise. Even my neighbours who he used to be playful with he growls at.
> But my main issue is the snapping at my baby and thats a step to far


Does the training bag with the chain in it for correction mean what I think it means for the boundary training. There was and some people still use a chain by either initially throwing the chain to make contact and then use the noise of the chain rattling or sight of the chain as a detterant or just throw the chain or bag with the chain in the dogs direction. Its an old outdated and very dangerous form of correction if it is this. Also growling at a dog when it does wrong is ridiculous and outdated. If these are the methods that you were taught then there in probably lies your problem. It can in fact make a dog more reactive and sensitive and more likely to snap and growl in defence, using noise adversives can also make a dog noise phobic too. You are basically training the dog with fear of punishment, and in any dg particularly a Mal its deffinately not the best way, they can become more reactive through stress and fearful behaviour.

Malamutes respond very well to reward based training, it doesn't damage the bond or trust either.

Edit to add Im not blaming you, you were following bad advice if this is the case and if Im correct in my assumption the so called trainer needs stringing up.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Does the training bag with the chain in it for correction mean what I think it means for the boundary training. There was and some people still use a chain by either initially throwing the chain to make contact and then use the noise of the chain rattling or sight of the chain as a detterant or just throw the chain or bag with the chain in the dogs direction. Its an old outdated and very dangerous form of correction if it is this. Also growling at a dog when it does wrong is ridiculous and outdated. If these are the methods that you were taught then there in probably lies your problem. It can in fact make a dog more reactive and sensitive and more likely to snap and growl in defence, using noise adversives can also make a dog noise phobic too. You are basically training the dog with fear of punishment, and in any dg particularly a Mal its deffinately not the best way, they can become more reactive through stress and fearful behaviour.
> 
> Malamutes respond very well to reward based training, it doesn't damage the bond or trust either.
> 
> Edit to add Im not blaming you, you were following bad advice if this is the case and if Im correct in my assumption the so called trainer needs stringing up.


I have written a complaint to them a couple of months ago about the training as I never used the training bag because he looked terrified when she drop on the floor near him so it went in the bin and we dealt with the food aggression are selfs and he will stay out of a room a wait for you to tell him to come in, like the dining room he will wait in the door way and not come in if your eating etc. 
But its just the snapping at the baby am concerned about now and his safety as he is really friendly alot of the time I just he is a grumpy dog and this aggressive problem has come out.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

mattyh3 said:


> I have written a complaint to them a couple of months ago about the training as I never used the training bag because he looked terrified when she drop on the floor near him so it went in the bin and we dealt with the food aggression are selfs and he will stay out of a room a wait for you to tell him to come in, like the dining room he will wait in the door way and not come in if your eating etc.
> But its just the snapping at the baby am concerned about now and his safety as he is really friendly alot of the time I just he is a grumpy dog and this aggressive problem has come out.


As he has always had "grumpy" or snappy issues then I would still get the thyroid test done for sure to rule that in or out, if he is Hypothyroid that would certainly contribute. It could be purely behavioural and lack of adequate training and he is unnerved and stressed around the baby making problems worse and exacerbating some behaviours that were already there to perhaps a lesser degree before. Its not uncommon for dogs to not be able to cope with babies and toddlers as a problem on its own, but obviously in a dog with some other long standing issues or behavioural problems its likely to be even worse still when a baby comes as they are not entirely grounded or stable to start off with.

We are very limited to what we can advise on here, and the Malamute rescue person coming to assess him and the situation is still your best bet. You do need to be completely honest and give her the full picture though about everything from the start of his problems not just the baby issue, as it will help in the assessment and should they take him in which seems unfortuanately the most likely solution then it will help with his rehabilitation and what work they will need to do with him first before finding the correct home.


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## ellenlouisepascoe (Jul 12, 2013)

My sister has a female Jack Russell , almost 3 years ago my sister give birth to a baby girl and brought her home from the hospital. 

Sally ( the JRT ) almost instantly changed over night, she started peeing in the house , pooping in the house, laying over items of clothing or blankets and growling when anyone went near them. 

Some dogs are extremely delicate towards change, luckily my sister has managed to work through her issues and she's turned back to her old self and now absolutely adores my 3 year old niece. A baby in the house turns the whole world of everyone upside down including the dog


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

mattyh3 said:


> I have written a complaint to them a couple of months ago about the training as I never used the training bag because he looked terrified when she drop on the floor near him so it went in the bin and we dealt with the food aggression are selfs and he will stay out of a room a wait for you to tell him to come in, like the dining room he will wait in the door way and not come in if your eatin*g etc.
> But its just the snapping at the baby am concerned about now and his safety as he is really friendly alot of the time I just he is a grumpy dog and this aggressive problem has come out*.


As others have said, a baby's jerky, unpredictable movements can unnerve a dog - especially one with a strong prey drive, as I understand malamutes have. It' isn;t nastiness on the dog's part - it is just an instinctive reaction that happens in microseconds, and they they have no control over. By all means have thyroid tests done if they won't take too long, but your baby has to be your priority. The woman from the rescue will hopefully realise that yours is a genuine 'danger' situation, and give your dog priority - especially as you said that you would be happy to pay for his keep (not that they are greedy, but every rescues organisation needs to get funding - if you are able to support your dog, it enables them to help another animal that has been abandoned).

You sound very sensible, so I'm sure that you will keep baby and dog apart. One thing that might help him to get used to the baby in the house (yes - I know it's been five months, but even so). Give him a wet nappy or two to have a good sniff (or if you have terry nappies, and can spare one - even to chew). This works surprisingly well when introducing dogs and babies.


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## Owned By A Yellow Lab (May 16, 2012)

You poor thing, what a sad situation to be in. Sounds like you really love your dog.

As always superb advice from SLED DOG HOTEL. I've never been in this situation so am just expressing an opinion; I think I'd definitely get your dog checked out for any thyroid issues etc.

If you know of or someone can recommend a good behaviourist, who ONLY uses kind methods, then that might be a way forward too.

Meawhile, as well as keeping your dog and child separate, would it be an idea to keep your boy on one of those long, lightweight house lines as well....? Just to give you that extra bit of control....? Just a thought


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Thank you for all the advice everyone. We have made a choice but its not 100% on what where going to decide on saturday when the malamute rescue women comes to assess him.
He has shattered my trust towards him and snapping at the baby is just the first step, he could easy kill him if it every happened again and when baby gets older it will be impossible to keep them apart because it would be child trapped in one room and dog in another and thats not how we want things to be.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I 100% agree with you in this Matt, they are powerful dogs and the very thought of the damage even a snap could do is not worth the risk IMO. My three are scared of children, we don't have any and neither do our friends and I would NEVER even let one of them in the same room as a child, let alone live with an unpredictable one if I had a child. A fearful dog is a very unpredictable dog and I am resigned to the fact that mine will never be in a situation with a child, just in case. Its such a shame because on the whole they usually love kids but introducing past a certain age and with one that was a snappy puppy is not a good idea. I've seen countless babies, toddlers and children of all ages on the Mal groups and the bonds are wonderful, Mals often choosing the youngsters above the parents but I also heard of one on there recently that bit a child - the dog was immediately destroyed and the child injured, just one bite and a moments lapse on the parents side led to the dog protecting its food. Of course it shouldn't have had food while the child was around but things can and do happen, you can't live like that and a child shouldn't have to. To try and make this work you and your partner will have to constantly be on your guard, never slip up and that's not easy, probably not even workable as your son is too young to understand he must not approach the dog if on any occasion a gate/door is left open. I keep my bitch away from my other dogs because she doesn't like them but even I have had slip ups and slip ups while feeding can be catastrophic - saw it first hand with one of my little dogs and would never chance that with a child. My biggest concern is that he has done this before, so its not happened out of the blue, out of character and he's done it to adults too, call it 'air snàpping' but if he made contact it would be a bite, most likely the people he's aimed for have likely been quick to avoid it, not so with a child though. 

Your boy is beautiful and if you do decide to re home he's young enough to settle, in a Mal experienced home and possibly even worked, with no children around and put at risk. May even see him on one of the groups, they take them on Mal group walks for socialisation - in fact they're doing one soon but its not near me. One thing is certain and that's that wherever he goes he will be safe and well cared for and no child will be put at risk either. AMCUK would be my choice of rescue and they will be honest in assessing your boy because they care passionately about the breed and in placing him would never set him up to fail, or risk him injuring others. 
Hard decision all round but you have to look at the bigger picture don't you? 
Keep us posted on how the visit goes please and be strong.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

I will post what happens on saturday but I think we will be re homing him due to the baby issue.
I know i have only highlighted his bad side but what makes the decision really hard is that he has to sides bad and his really affectionate side where he will come lay with you, coming and give you his doggy kisses, be really playful and cuddly but itd upsetting we have to look past all that for the sake of are baby.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

mattyh3 said:


> I will post what happens on saturday but I think we will be re homing him due to the baby issue.
> I know i have only highlighted his bad side but what makes the decision really hard is that he has to sides bad and his really affectionate side where he will come lay with you, coming and give you his doggy kisses, be really playful and cuddly but itd upsetting we have to look past all that for the sake of are baby.


I know it must be really upsetting and an awful position to be in too. If you do have to rehome him though you are going the right way about it, as Malmum said the Mal breed rescue are excellent and will take good care of him and where he goes and will ensure he has the right home to suit him.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> I know it must be really upsetting and an awful position to be in too. If you do have to rehome him though you are going the right way about it, as Malmum said the Mal breed rescue are excellent and will take good care of him and where he goes and will ensure he has the right home to suit him.


I am paying for his food etc for aslong as it takes to rehome and I have said I want to know he has a new home when the time comes to say goodbye to him I just hope its not dragged out until they can take him as it's going to make it even harder to let go


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

mattyh3 said:


> I am paying for his food etc for aslong as it takes to rehome and I have said I want to know he has a new home when the time comes to say goodbye to him I just hope its not dragged out until they can take him as it's going to make it even harder to let go


Hopefully once they have seen him and because of the urgency with the baby if it does come to that they may be able to find him a foster home quicker.
You should know more Saturday once they have come and seen him. I suppose at the moment even Saturday seems ages away.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Well no visit today. Got cancelled so got to wait another week and then its whenever they can take him as there full


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

mattyh3 said:


> Well no visit today. Got cancelled so got to wait another week and then its whenever they can take him as there full


I'm so sorry - this is awful for you because it is very emotional for you to start off with and of course, you were all keyed up for the visit.

Try not to worry yourself too much, just continue keeping baby and dog apart. I can only imagine how difficult it must be, and how painful - your dog will be missing his cuddles with you as much as you are missing having him as part of the family. You are right to give him up so that he has the chance of a home where he can relax without the worry of young babies about (because I bet he's anxious, too). He's young, and when he is homed he will settle quickly and happily.


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## jayelle (Jan 5, 2014)

I wish you all the best and hope things are resolved quickly for you and your dog.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Yeah the longer it takes the harder its going to be.
Well Friday morning I got up for work and when I got in the kitchen I found that he had wee'd up some of the kitchen doors and he never does his business in the house and to me that's territory marking.
Also today he has been good as gold as the baby has been at my partners parents all day but had a growl at my friends tonight who he has seen all the time since a pup when they went to come out the baby gate from front room.
Just a shame he has this behaviour and doesn't get on with the baby


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

So sorry they had to cancel and you have to wait again for assessment.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Well had a visit sunday just gone.
It went really well, she thought he was lovely and really nice and she was really annoyed that he spoils himself with having a really nice home to live in etc.
She was really happy with his walking said he been trained really well for a malamute. 
But she did see his guarding side when she tried to leave the room (he snarled up at her) and he was baring his teeth at her because he wanted the biscuits she had in her pocket.


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

that sounds like it went well - she's seen that you have obviously put a lot of time into training him and that in many ways he's a really nice boy who definitely deserves every chance - but she's also seen his worrying side so knows that not being able to keep him round a small child is genuine and prompted by something real in his behaviour rather than just vague fears about big dog and small child.

Hopefully she'll be able to help find him somewhere suitable soon.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Yeah she was concerned about the unpredictable side he has where you can be just stroking him then all of a sudden his teeth come out.. but she picked up something really interesting in his 5 generation certificate that there was a name called bassbarr in both sides of his line and that was one of the first ones to come over to uk and was suppose to be quiet aggressive so she has highlighted that in his notes


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Glad he's been assessed Matt and that they now know he's been well cared for and its not just an excuse on your part. The fact that he showed his unpredictable side is also good. Let's hope they can take him soon and find an experienced home for him. Such a shame after all the hard work you've put in though. 
As for the Bassbar statement, I take that with a pinch of salt tbh. Mine have Bassbarr in their pedigrees - Kinsman - Kalunraq - Koolit of Keebuck and Tuwunaagh and I have no aggression at all in my three, or any of the seven litter dogs from my only litter. A lot depends on upbringing of the parents I agree and also how/where the litter was raised. For instance, when my ex oh bought Kali it was pretty obvious from what he described that she was raised in a shed, a rotten byb that my husband didn't recognise at the time, he bought her as a surprise for me otherwise I would not have touched a breeder like that. When she came into my house at eight weeks old she immediately didn't like my existing dogs, at eight years now she still doesn't. I believe the litter were left to get on with it amongst themselves and had to fight for food, even in those very early days. . Having said that she is super (in fact a bit ott) friendly with people - any people. 
There was a breeder once who was the most respected breeder of Mals in the UK for a very long time, people couldn't praise her enough yet a friend of mine had one of her pups that put a cousin in hospital and special arrangements had to be made for vet visits because she was so human and dog aggressive. Sometimes it can be a one off for some obscure reason. 
If you want to pm me your boys pedigree I could find out if anyone I know on the groups have a sibling of his and what its temperament is like. Of course that is a bit pointless as he is being rehomed but if you're interested please do. I wouldn't be surprised if part of your boys pedigree is the exact same as one of mine too. Marty is the most laid back Mal ever, a complete baby, Kali is super intelligent and mostly immediately obedient (give or take a little Mal stubbourness  ) and Flynn is scared of his own shadow but likes people, even strangers that call or he sees in the street. Sometimes you get one that goes adrift through no ones fault. I remember a lovely young red boy who progressively became more aggressive to his owners, culminating in him going berserk and being pts at eighteen months old  at postmortem it was found he had a brain tumour. Nothing could have prepared his doting owners for that and it was just a terrible one off.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

That is one thing the women said what was he like before you picked him up and he was terrible, he was always biting the others and his mum and they want bothered. He was food aggressive towards the others and towards his mum. When I picked him up he was pulling the other one about. The breeder even said you will have your hands full with him.
I think he is getting worse though as we couldnt even sit at the dining table last night as he haf laid under it and soon as we got a couple of feet near him he snarled up..
I will pm you his kc name.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Oh Matt, alarm bells should have been ringing there mate, Mals are pretty rough players with their siblings but shouldn't be out of control. Kali used to play with her pups and chuck them all around but they were always wagging their tails and going back for more, never any yelps or aggression on either part. Mine were raised in my front room and I slept downstairs with them until the last one left at six months old. We all loved our babes and they had our time devoted to them totally. The only girl I had spayed before she left me, she went to live with her brother and was inseparable. 
You def got a rotten breeder there I'd say - such a shame because they really are a wonderful breed around kids generally. 
I'll look into his KC name and ask on the UK group. In the meantime I would enforce your gate with added chicken wire so as your baby can't stick fingers through and keep baby away from the gate as far as possible , which I imagine you do anyway.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Well we now have a collection date for frost which stands at next sunday upto now.
It soon hits home when you know the time is close to say your goodbyes.
I just hope he ends up been a good boy for them and gets a good home to go to.
We had are doubts lately about giving him up though as he was getting on with the baby really well but them he had a moment when there was food involved :-(


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

You know you're doing the right thing in the long run Matt and AMCUK rescue are brilliant at finding the best homes for their fosters. I'll look out for Frost on their Facebook page, they take the dogs on long hikes and introduce them to others for walks too. Because they don't take in loads of dogs at a time they often have foster homes lined up and not kennels, the dogs can then be properly assessed and suited to the fight family environment. Sometimes if there's no foster home they will spend a short while kennels but they are passionate about the breed and only do what's best for them. 

Of course it will be a sad day but it would be even sadder if an incident happened with your baby eh? You're being very responsible and Frost will benefit from a life without restrictions to. xx


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

mattyh3 said:


> Well we now have a collection date for frost which stands at next sunday upto now.
> It soon hits home when you know the time is close to say your goodbyes.
> I just hope he ends up been a good boy for them and gets a good home to go to.
> We had are doubts lately about giving him up though as he was getting on with the baby really well but them he had a moment when there was food involved :-(


Its an awfully hard thing too do, but in the circumstances if its any consolation at all you are doing the right thing. Letting the Breed rescue assess and rehomie is also the best possible way of ensuring he will be found a new and right home too.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Matty - you are doing the right thing for your child and for your dog.

One day you will feel ready for another dog - may or may not be the same breed, but either way, you will have learned a great deal that you can bring to your new canine relationship.

And Frost will be thoroughly assessed before being re-homed with people who know exactly what type of a dog they are taking on and are experienced enough to cope with him and bring out the best in him. He will miss you at first, but will very quickly settle into his new environment and will have a long (hopefully) and happy life. It will be great for him to be a welcome (as well as a loved) member of the family again, because at present you can't let him join in with family life properly. He will be over the separation long before you are, trust me. Dogs just accept what happens and get on with things.

And you will be able to relax with your baby knowing that you have nothing to worry about - what a load that will be off your minds.

Well done - what you are doing takes a huge amount of courage and consideration of what is best for the dog as well as yourself.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Malmum said:


> You know you're doing the right thing in the long run Matt and AMCUK rescue are brilliant at finding the best homes for their fosters. I'll look out for Frost on their Facebook page, they take the dogs on long hikes and introduce them to others for walks too. Because they don't take in loads of dogs at a time they often have foster homes lined up and not kennels, the dogs can then be properly assessed and suited to the fight family environment. Sometimes if there's no foster home they will spend a short while kennels but they are passionate about the breed and only do what's best for them.
> 
> Of course it will be a sad day but it would be even sadder if an incident happened with your baby eh? You're being very responsible and Frost will benefit from a life without restrictions to. xx


Frost is there last one there taking in now for a long time she said as there getting to many malamutes coming in and since that baby got killed by one they have had loads ring up.
He is going to one of there kennels in Doncaster, I was trying to wait for a foster home instead of the kennels but he has been getting a bit more protective since keeping him outside more, he wany let my partner get the washing in as he is guarding a hole he has dug so I have to go out as he know he doesn't bother me with his grawling a nipping at you.
Am sure he will be fine there but still have my doubts about him getting a new home and if he does it will be a long wait for him with his attitude he has


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

lostbear said:


> Matty - you are doing the right thing for your child and for your dog.
> 
> One day you will feel ready for another dog - may or may not be the same breed, but either way, you will have learned a great deal that you can bring to your new canine relationship.
> 
> ...


I think this is it for a very long time with dogs for use, well until the baby is older.
We are keeping in touch to see how he is getting on etc but am dreading sunday as he has bad separation from us when we go out etc and I hope he doesn't through a wobbler When getting him in the van.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Don't worry Matt, Doncaster is where the donations go to, money, kibble, leads etc. so I know there will be people on site with him and he's not in a big block of kennels/shelter like you may think. I suppose until he's checked out medically and by a behaviourist they won't put him directly into à home, a bit risky when you think about it. 
Until the coroner reports his findings the truth about the baby death won't be known but the malamute type (the breed has not been stated by police, only the press) and the collie cross were both destroyed although according to a close source it apparently wasn't either of them. I won't say any more as it isn't official yet but that's what we've been told on the group - we shall see but its done untold damage to the breed and rescues are getting the flack as well as innocent dogs. The police issued an official statement on their website about the destruction of both dogs and I don't know why they were destroyed other than they would have brought too much attention to any rescue that tried to re home if it were leaked out. Very sad all round and if the story we've heard is true, even sadder. I will probably see Frost up for rehoming at some stage and I'll send you a pm. 
I'm in the process of becoming a home checker for AMCUK and keep up with their new re homes. He'll be fine and you can rest assured well looked after. xx


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## JulieNoob (Oct 22, 2008)

Just adding, the Bassbar dogs are NOT known for aggression. I have known many and all lovely.

You could not have kept your boy with the way he was behaving round the baby.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Well frost got collected at ten this morning and god it was heartbreaking to do, I regret so much having to do that to him and he looked so sad in the van I just burst into tears :sad:


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

I know it was a really hard decision to make and you must be full of doubts and worries for him just now - but you know it was for his sake as well as for the safety of your child. You were having to keep him away from the centre of the family and isolate him so it is in his best interests to go to a home where he can be more part of things again.

I'm sorry for your loss but in time he'll be settled in a new home without small children and you'll be able to remember the good times and the best things about him without the anxiety and stress of keeping him away from your child.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

He will be in the hands of people with masses of malamute experience Matt and will be rehomed in an environment that is suitable for him, a working home might be a good option once his initial problems have been sorted. 
I'm so sorry that it didn't work for you, I've seen so many that are wonderful with kids but some can be a little possessive - my Kali is as far as other dogs approaching her humans and has started many a fight because of her jealousy. She's not at all nasty to people though and if she were even I would have had to think about my options and I don't even have any young children about. 

Take care Matt, don't beat yourself up as you've done the right thing and hopefully one day when your baby is older you might consider another Mal but make sure you get a very good breeder, who also breeds for temperament and gives life long support - which is what you should've had with Frost. It goes to show that health testing isn't everything eh? I know Frosts parents had good scores but for me temperament of the lines is even more important. 
I'll look out for him and I bet they'll have him sorted faster than you'd think.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Quick update on Frost. He's been with Sam for just over two weeks now and although stubborn at first she is making real progress with him. Last weekend she put pics of him out walking with her and posted he's 'definitely rehomable' so that's great news. As she said, he's still a youngster and can be trained out of his unwanted behaviours, so his future looks bright still. 
Matt and his partner are obviously missing him but he receives texts from Sam on how Frost is coming along. He's not ready to rehome for a couple of weeks yet but is open to viewings from experienced Mal owners. 
Good news all round and Mat and his partner can relax at home with their baby now, they miss Frost but sadly he couldn't be kept around their little lad and rightly so.


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## MyMillie (Jun 17, 2012)

Wonderful news Malmum! .... so happy to hear this, thank you for the update


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Thanks for the update, lovely to hear he is doing well, and hopefully wont be too long before he finds a new home. Must be at least some comfort to his previous owners to know he is in good and safe hands.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I think its lovely that Sam is keeping Mat informed on his progress, she's also managing to make progress on grooming him, something he wasn't keen on at first, lol. These dogs are terrors at taking liberties and if they see any kind of 'weakness' they're in for a great game and its always on their terms. Seems young Master Frost has met his match and will now have to tow the line. Talk about 'give them an inch' so true with Mals, such opportunists but gorgeous all the same. 
Frost is going to be just fine and Mat hasn't lost contact either.


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## speug (Nov 1, 2011)

It's good to hear that Frost is doing well and will hopefully find himself a nice child-free home. It's also great to hear that Mat is able to get updates as I know how devastated he was to have to make the decision to rehome Frost.


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Taken from Facebook rescue page. 










He's getting there - just look at that smile. :thumbup1:


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

Malmum said:


> Taken from Facebook rescue page.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got this from sam the other day afted doing my donation for him... she says he is doing really well and due his vet visit soon so she will have fun with him there if he gets mardy but am really pleased he is doing so well


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

He looks lovely Matt and just look at that lovely black hooter, lol. No snow nose on this boy, beautiful dense black - unlike my three who all have it slightly but its not so visible with the reds, just a slightly paler pink in various areas. 
I reckon he'll soon get his forever home once he's fully assessed and trained in his difficult areas and AMCUK give lifetime back up to the new owners, plus fun events and their own rescue calendar - all go towards funding current dogs and helping new owners settle theirs as well as meeting up to see past dogs again. 
He certainly is handsome Matt.


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## mattyh3 (Apr 6, 2012)

When I spoke to sam last she sent pictures with his new walkers and she said they might be interested in him so I hope they do because he derserves somewhere nice even though he has his faults it just easier for someone with no children etc to do it with him.
They look an older couple so hopefully they will have him


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