# need help with kittens



## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Hello everyone

Im new here,and need your help urgently
I found two kittens (aged 3 and 4 days most), and took them in, my problem is that one of them won't drink the milk while the other one is pooping a white substance (he used to poop a yellowish substance, semi solid not two days ago, my question is: is that normal? you must know that here in Iraq we have not cat vets and naturally no kitten formulas and other things that will help, please help me, I can't stand the thought of these two poor creatures dying in my hands.

I should mention that the other one is not pooping as the first and is refusing to drink,what should I do with that? and should I give them water as well?

Please I await your help.

Fifo


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## kelly-joy (Oct 14, 2008)

I am really sorry I am really busy and don't have time to answer this but I have posted it in the breeding section here http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-bree...advise-poor-person-please.html#post1061992234 where someone there will be able to help you I am sure, I just didn't want to read and run. hope they can help.


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## Nancy23 (Feb 7, 2012)

You should realy contact a vet to get help asap.
Wishing you and the kittens all the best xxx


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

What are you giving them if there is no kitten milk formula? Goats milk is an okay substitute to hand rear kittens but not cows milk. It would be good if you could find a foster mother for them. They need to be fed every two hours and in the meantime kept warm. If they won't drink the milk try giving water but I think you need to be prepared for the fact that these kittens may not survive
Do you know how to stimulate them to go to the toilet - their mother would lick them so you need to massage very gently with wet cotton wool.
I do not have any first hand experience of hand-rearing and hopefully someone who does will have some better advice for you
ETA I am moving this to the breeding section for you where someone else might spot it more quickly


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Thanks for answering, I raised a kitten not two years ago and gave him cow milk and he grew up to maturity and was fine, when i found him he was only 2 to 3 days old, I am re-doing to these poor creatures the same i did for him(i know about stimulating them and all) but this is the first time that happened to me (they poop a white substance),as for vets, here in Iraq the only docs we have are for humans or farm animals' pet (which they reside near farms and are very far away) so what should one do? I am giving them water and trying to give them some vitamins, but no use, as for a surrogate mom-cat, she tried to kill them. 

any thoughts please?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

White poo is not a good sign  I am not at all qualified but I think it can be caused by an infection.


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## BshLover84 (May 6, 2012)

Hi, white substance is an severe bacterial imbalance and severe infection in the bowel, kittens are at risk of dying, they need medical attention, but as you said they dont have a vet for them, then sorry to say but it don't look good!

I'm completely upset hearing that they can't be seen, poor little mites!


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Cows milk is no good for them, can you get goats milk?

It isn't looking good I'm afraid, not if they are that young and mother rejected them.

Liz


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Are you feeding them with a syringe? They're too young to drink from a bowl. Goats milk is much better than cow's milk. Cow's milk can make kittens quite sick, so you should really try and avoid it if you can.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

please people, there must be a way to help the poor kitten, he is screaming right now and I can't do a thing to help him, its horrible to not be able to do a thing, please advice me of any remedy or medicine or anti bacterial thing. Please


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm really sorry but we aren't vets - just normal people. There is nothing we can do - and even if we did know anything (which we don't) we couldn't guarantee that you could get it in Iraq. Keep him warm and pray. he needs a vet and you've already said you don't have a vet.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Give me a name of medicine and I might try finding its substitute or anything, I can't lose these fellows, already lost so many, I know you are not vets, but I'm sure as pet owners you faced similar problems,I am keeping him warm and cozy as best I could, he drinks water and milk alot and is quite active for such a small age. can't i treat him with antibiotics?if its an infection. won't it work?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Yes, we might have had similar problems with our cats but we go to the vets (personally I haven't) - you can't buy antibiotics etc over the counter here - you need to see a dr or a vet to get them - so I wouldn't know what to suggest. Give him the wrong stuff and it will kill him anyway!

You can't expect strangers to make these decisions for you - if you think you know what to do and think you can get the drugs and think you can face the consequences then that is *your* decision not ours. We don't know what is wrong with him, suggesting a medicine would be unethical and unwise.

Keep him warm, keep feeding him and stimulating him, feed him goats milk not cows, and pray.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

You could try antibiotics I suppose, if you can get them. Very active and screaming suggests starvation to me. Can you get goat's milk? Can you do a search on the internet for "kitten gloop" and see if you can make up something close to the recipes they suggest? I'm afraid even in the UK once a kitten of this age is seriously ill there is very little that can be done.

Liz


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## Ingrid25 (Oct 1, 2011)

Please feed it goats milk, you are ignoring us! We can not give you much advice but this- we are not vets and you can DEFINANTLY not give it anibiotics without a vet perscription.
Sorry but the chances are slim of them making it


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

As i said before, there is no GOAT's MILK here, and cow's milk is all that they sell,and since i can't milk a cat or a goat, then that's all i have. I thought I could get help but I was wrong.


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## Ingrid25 (Oct 1, 2011)

oh sorry i must have missed that!

Maybe try them on water and remeber to keep them nice and warm, I hope they do make it.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

A bit of a long shot i know, but can you buy kitten milk replacer formula anywhere? If not, then I don't know what else to suggest, because if he doesn't die of whatever infection he has, then he may due to incorrect nutrition. Where did you find these kittens? Could the mum still be nearby somewhere?


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## Golgotha_tramp (Feb 27, 2011)

fifo said:


> I thought I could get help but I was wrong.


people are giving you all the help they can. We are just regular people, we can't work magic. If the cats need a vet and you cannot get to one and need goats milk and can't get it then really all you can do is continue to syringe feed cow milk and water, entourage toileting, keep them warm and pray.

Maybe it is the language barrier but your post seems a little rude.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

fifo said:


> As i said before, there is no GOAT's MILK here, and cow's milk is all that they sell,and since i can't milk a cat or a goat, then that's all i have. I thought I could get help but I was wrong.


We aren't miracle workers! As has been said if you can't get them to a vets you can't find out what's wrong and so you can't get them the right drugs. If there are no goats (really, in Iraq?! No goats?! I struggle to believe that - but hey ho) and no replacement formula and you can't get the ingredients for kitten gloop (goggle search) then you will have to make do. And hope.

(I so seriously hope this is a trolling post)


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

I am really sorry if i seemed a bit rude, i appreciate your help and tips, its just that I already lost several of my kittens and each death just make me sadder and angrier and so helpless. my apologies if i seemed ungrateful but its just not fair that such a tiny creature is suffering and i can't even put it to sleep to end its misery.

will keep him warm and pray he improves.

Thank you all for your advice and help

And i'm afraid its not a troll post i'm afraid.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

spid said:


> We aren't miracle workers! As has been said if you can't get them to a vets you can't find out what's wrong and so you can't get them the right drugs. If there are no goats (really, in Iraq?! No goats?! I struggle to believe that - but hey ho) and no replacement formula and you can't get the ingredients for kitten gloop (goggle search) then you will have to make do. And hope.
> 
> (I so seriously hope this is a trolling post)


We are not talking about culture here, sure there are goats and their owners used to walk around the city selling them for their meat, but right now, there are none and goat's milk is not a popular thing to be sold in shops, believe that or not, its your problem...

Wish you could come here and tell me if you can find goat's milk

Thank you for your reply and attention, it means alot.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

If there's no goats milk, then please make the kitten glop. You should be able to get everything you need for that.


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## Lil Dee (Dec 7, 2010)

Just in case - this is the recipe for Kitten Gloop - if there is any way you can mix some of this, it would be far better for them than the cows milk.

*Kitten Gloop*
This is a recipe for Kitten Milk Replacer!
1 1 oz package of gelatin
2 Tbs Mayonnaise
2 Tbs Corn syrup (don't use honey or sugar)
1 Egg yolk
1 Can of Evaporated milk
Mix with Gelatin and refrigerate. When ready to use, microwave small amount in a cup and pour into a bottle.

I wish you all the very best, I can only imagine how heart-rending your situation is right now.


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## merrimate (Apr 21, 2012)

I really feel for these poor kittens and your sad plight in trying to care for them. 

If there is absolutely no vet care available for domestic animals (and i shudder to think of the animal suffering and population implications of this) maybe you can contact an online animal welfare organisation for advice?


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

I wish we could do more, your frustration and desperation comes across in your posts, as does that of the people who are trying to help, as all we can do is advise what we'd do here - vet, replacement milk, etc - none of which is available to you. The result is no one can really help each other and everyone is getting frustrated and upset. 

It must be really awful trying to help sick babies when you don't have any of the supplies needed and I do feel for you. Try and make the nearest you can to the kitten gloop recipe with what you do have available. Keep an eye out for mum, just in case she's out there somewhere. Keep them warm and give them love. You can't do any more than that. At least someone cares about them and they are comfortable. I really hope they make it and bless you for caring.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

I wish to thank you all for all your advice and care, but i'm afraid i have some bad news, the little kitten is dead, just found him a few minutes ago, only hope he passed with minimum pain.i don't get it though, i raised a kitten just like him with the same cow milk and all and he grew up just fine, why this one not?
he was white with some black in his head and tail, name him Sox.


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## merrimate (Apr 21, 2012)

That is sad news, but at least he won't suffer anymore.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

He could already have been very poorly when you found him - that might have been why mum abandoned him or he could have been one of the 66% of cats that are allergic to cows milk and that didn't help. Your previous kitten obviously was one of the 33% that could cope with cows milk and was probably stronger to begin with.

Console yourself with the fact that you tried, he didn't stand a chance without you and at least he got a bit of love in the end.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm sorry that little Sox didn't survive  I realise it must have been so hard for you when you have had success in rearing one tiny kitten. 
RIP little kitten and know that you were loved


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Thank you for your kind words everyone, and just to make things clear, people here don't give a damn about little kittens and these two ( the other one is still fine so far) were thrown at our house by kids whose parents told them to get rid of these poor creatures, the lucky ones find their way to a quick death, others have to suffer till the end, I hate it here. you guys are so lucky to have vets and people whom you can go to and see whats wrong with your beloved pets. Thank Allah the merciful God every day for that.

As for the gloop, I am making it for the other little one and trying to make my cat to accept her, my only concern is that when I first found her, the kids had sucked her in water, even though I dried her and her place is warm and all, but i jump every time she sneezes.

I wish i can have your advice on how to care for this little Toti


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## rose (Apr 29, 2009)

I hope this wasnt a real post, if it is I am sorry for the kitten. There seems to be lots of threads about very small sick kittens from people from Pakistan, Egypt etc. I hate to be suspicious but they seem a bit suspect. Apologies to the OP if I am wrong.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

I am sorry too Rose, but as you know, not everyone appreciate animals the way you do, here, they are considered no more than vermin and are treated as such to the point where kids' parents would encourage the kids cruelty to animals by laughing and doing nothing, and the poorer the district is the worst.

But i am glad to say that there are some people who still care for these animals even if they are a minority.

As i said before, thank Allah that you don't live here.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I believe you. I think many people on these forums do not understand the realities of the rest of the world as far as attitudes to animals are concerned. It isn't that long ago - just a couple of generations - since puppy and kitten drowning was the norm here, so why should we expect that all the world has caught up with us when there is so much severe poverty in the world?

Liz


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

I am not saying your lying, but some some one in iraq, your english is extreamly good, even down to our way of talking. ALSO my old tutor was from iraq and was saying that when she came over here her and her family were lactose intolrent, as they did not drink cows milk there.

You may be telling the truth, but I hope for the kittens sake this is B.S


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

My impression has always been that people from foreign countries learn English much better than native English speakers learn other languages, which might account for the OP's solid grasp of the written language. As for the cow's milk, perhaps there's a regional issue here? Iraq is a fairly big country. I think of goats, not cows, when I think of the Middle East, but the OP could be in an area where that's not the case.

I hope the remaining kitten thrives and I'm very distressed about the one that has gone to the Bridge, but if their start to life was as horrid as the OP has described, then it's a miracle the one is still with us. I'm really not shocked that there wouldn't be pet vets there. In many areas Iraq is a country that considers women second class citizens and property. Is it any surprise that they wouldn't have people trained to look after animals that many believe only exist to rid a house or barn of vermin?


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Hello again, I know I am annoying you but please I need your advice with the other kitten, but first know that when I found her, she was soaked with water, I dried her asap and keeping her warm, but as i am feeding her, her stomach is getting bigger and when I try to stimulate her , she screams and the amount of liquid is little and her stomach is still big, am I doing something wrong? I am carefully feeding her and stimulating her before and after feeding,I know the risks of not stimulating, so far no reaction to cow's milk and thank you for the gloop recipe. As for people who asked me about the mom cat, I am afraid to say that these kittens were thrown into our yard so i have no idea who the mom is and haven't seen any searching cat around, so I assume she was either killed (most likely) or was thrown away to another area.

Please advice me as soon as you can, I truly can't lose this one too.

Thank you all for your patience and understanding.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

she may have worms.


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

I agree with Spid, she may have worms. As you don't have access to a vet and cats are considered vermin, I would imagine you won't be able to get your hands on a worming solution. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there still a shipping embargo on Iraq, or is it just an arms embargo? I'm asking because I wonder if it would be possible to ship in a worming solution, and kitten milk while you're at it. I have a feeling this is unlikely though.

It saddens me that you live in Iraq. You seem like a genuine person and an animal lover, which always gets the thumbs up from me. To live in such a confused state must be difficult and I hope you live in an area that's relatively safe.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Rabbitmonkee said:


> I agree with Spid, she may have worms. As you don't have access to a vet and cats are considered vermin, I would imagine you won't be able to get your hands on a worming solution. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there still a shipping embargo on Iraq, or is it just an arms embargo? I'm asking because I wonder if it would be possible to ship in a worming solution, and kitten milk while you're at it. I have a feeling this is unlikely though.
> 
> It saddens me that you live in Iraq. You seem like a genuine person and an animal lover, which always gets the thumbs up from me. To live in such a confused state must be difficult and I hope you live in an area that's relatively safe.


Shipping embargo has long been lifted but can how can i get this worming solution? can you give me a name of the brand? or can i use one for humans i that is even possible? I have saved about 100$, is that enough? how long will it take to ship it here? can my kitten survive that long?I searched the net for a solution and all I get is: Visit the vet.

Sorry if i seem a bit desperate, but I really am, you have no idea how glad I was when I got these two, and began to imagine when they will grow up will be playmates and all,but now that I lost one and the other as well is not far behind(if i can't treat her properly).

Any tips or advice please? I know like many of you say that you are no miracle workers but any tip may prove useful.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

I think Spid is correct, she do have potbelly, how long do you think she has?
can it be enough to get a worm solution from abroad here?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

you need Panacur (safe for wee kittens) - no idea on shipping costs or shipping times (sorry) - you'll need to do an internet search and find the various sites that sell it and look at their shipping terms. Human stuff will kill the kitten. It's fairly cheap stuff - about £3 for the paste which is really what you need.

It's very difficult to tell how long a kitten has without seeing it. Pot belly could be worms so could be easily treated and so she may have years if she feeds well. Or it could be internal bleeding from being thrown at your door in which case she could have hours/days. Or it could be a reaction to cows milk, who knows? We can't tell. I know that seems harsh but we can't diagnose on a forum. 

Have you tried to make up the kitten gloop yet? This will give your kitten the best chance of living food wise.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

I did make it but due to electricity and high temperatures, it is getting soiled really fast (have to tell you, we have no regular electricity here, comes 3 times a day and for one hour,depending on region you live in),I know it sounds gloomy, but I thought you might benefit from knowing the circumstances, she is very energetic and drinks hungrily, but I think if she had internal bleeding won't that shows in her stool ( she hasn't made any solid stool yet,Is that ok?).
i feed her every two to three hours (unless I'm at work,in that case, my sis feeds her after 5 hours from her last meal).

Can I ask if this potbelly she has will remain? and is it ok to continue feeding her?


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

I would look at pet supply sites and see where they deliver to. I have a feeling you might need to look at US sites but see how you get on.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

And thank you Spid, and everyone here for your valuable advices and I apologise if I seemed a bit rude or impolite in my previous posts.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

If it's worms, the belly will go down once she poops them out (dead) - but all kittens have a little potbelly anyway when they are small. 

With the kitten gloop, only make up small amounts that you know she will eat within the time it takes for the electricity to come back on and then make up a fresh batch - hard work I know but it will give her the best chance. 

She should be pooping a couple of times a day - make sure you are stimulating her with warm water and a cloth, circular motions always works on my kittens. But give it a little bit of time of gentle rubbing to help her. She may be constipated.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

She needs stimulating before and after each feed. A pity about the electricity situation, if you had a reliable deep freeze then hunting down goat's milk and freezing it in an ice cube tray would probably work well for you.

As well as Panacur paste, you might also be able to buy Cimicat or KMR online - this is a replacement milk powder suitable for kittens. You have to make it exactly as directed - too strong or too weak doesn't work - and I would suggest using freshly boiled water that has cooled so you know there are no bugs in the water. Cimicat is the brand usually found in the UK, KMR is the US brand. Not sure how long a tub will keep once open.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Hello again, its me, I have another question, the kitten seems healthy, but her stomach has this purplish color to it and she screams aloud when i try to stimulate her to pee, I try to be gentle but she wiggle and struggle, but she is eating fine and have solid droppings and one amazing thing happened not two hours ago, she opened her eyes, seems I were wrong in estimating her age, about her belly, should i apply some hand creams to it? or should I put something on it?I clean her regularly.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Kittens with dark fur do have purple skin on their bellies at this age.

Liz


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

If it had a red,swollen anal and seems to hurt every time it pees and it screams in pain at any attempt to touch it? that is not my question really but a friend who took another of these kittens in, just like my Sox who died of what seemed to be bacterial infection, he said that his kitten seems to reject cow's milk, I told him what you guys told me but we have no milk formula and all, can he do something to at least make his kitten a bit comfortable? Its a painful way to die like that, we both know by now that its too late to save it,he has this red anal and is pooping everything he give him, and all that is left of him is almost bones. please at least should he apply some ointment or anything?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Have you looked at some sites to get wormer? If so have you looked at getting some kitten replacement milk at the same time? I would get some in stock ready for the next batch if I were you.

As for the poor kitties bum - you could pop some Savlon or vaseline on it. Just don't let the little one lick it.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I agree. Your chances of saving these are now very low but if it is likely to happen again you could be better prepared if you have some kitten milk replacer.

Liz


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Oh I feel so sorry for you and the poor kitten. You must be frantic. No advice from my side as you have received excellent advice from the other posters. Thinking of you in your desperate plight. As for the red sore anus, I have seen this before when a kitten was handed in that had been found lying in the street: it was invested with maggots and it was too late to do anything. I am afraid the outlook doesn't look very good. I am so sorry.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Dear all,
Is it too late for these kittens if I began making the kitten gloop? I have searched everywhere I know of for Goat's milk, but as i suspected, they have to make special deliverys to get it, I found NESTLE full fat powder milk and light corn syrup,will that be ok?will they have a chance after this long time and that bad state they're in?Please advice me as time is running out.Please


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

fifo said:


> Dear all,
> Is it too late for these kittens if I began making the kitten gloop? I have searched everywhere I know of for Goat's milk, but as i suspected, they have to make special deliverys to get it, I found NESTLE full fat powder milk and light corn syrup,will that be ok?will they have a chance after this long time and that bad state they're in?Please advice me as time is running out.Please


I thought you said you'd already made the gloop? I can see it's hard to get the right ingredients but NESTLE full fat milk powder will be based on cows milk but do the best yo can with what yo have.

In all honestly, yes I think it is too late for these kittens, but get yourself prepared for next time.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

I did make it but then you said that cow's milk is bad and electricity is bad here so it went bad fast ( high temps, eggs and mayonaise are not good), besides, I thought I could put sugar instead of corn syrup but when I googled it, I read that I should use corn syrup, and light one at that, so today i made what I thought is the right gloop, and gave half to my friend, even though there are no immediate results but we are hoping against hope to at least make them comfortable should they never make it, I asked the shop owner about goat's milk, he said that there's someone who could bring me some but will have to wait for almost a week, since he goes to his farm on weekends, so can they survive at least that long? My friend's kitten's health seems so bad, I saw it, all bone and skin, mouth withered and anal red, when he feeds it cow's milk, it just poops it all, so he gave him the formula today,I know the odds are against it, but we are hoping.

As for my kitten, she seemed fine at first but now, she is showing the same signs as my poor Sox (the one I lost), but she is fat which I hope is a good sign, and have a good appetite, my question is: is the formula ok?even though it contains high calisum and full fat?


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

@koekemakranka 
The people here are great, and I wish I knew them sooner.
Thank you all for your advice.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

fifo said:


> I did make it but then you said that cow's milk is bad and electricity is bad here so it went bad fast ( high temps, eggs and mayonaise are not good), besides, I thought I could put sugar instead of corn syrup but when I googled it, I read that I should use corn syrup, and light one at that, so today i made what I thought is the right gloop, and gave half to my friend, even though there are no immediate results but we are hoping against hope to at least make them comfortable should they never make it, I asked the shop owner about goat's milk, he said that there's someone who could bring me some but will have to wait for almost a week, since he goes to his farm on weekends, so can they survive at least that long? My friend's kitten's health seems so bad, I saw it, all bone and skin, mouth withered and anal red, when he feeds it cow's milk, it just poops it all, so he gave him the formula today,I know the odds are against it, but we are hoping.
> 
> As for my kitten, she seemed fine at first but now, she is showing the same signs as my poor Sox (the one I lost), but she is fat which I hope is a good sign, and have a good appetite, my question is: is the formula ok?even though it contains high calisum and full fat?


This must be so difficult to watch. I have a feeling your kitten is full of worms, and there's really nothing to do for that except to worm her. Since there's nothing available there and I think time is running out, I Googled natural de-wormer for kittens, in the hope I could find something that you might be able to lay your hands on. The best I can come up with is diatomaceous earth and ground pumpkin seeds, both of which can be added as a powder to food. I have no idea if these are things you can get or how well the pumpkin seed works (I've used the earth and results take a while as it doesn't kill the worms immediately--it lacerates their bodies so they dehydrate).

As for the milk powder I'm going to say any nutrition at this point is better than nothing and since she doesn't seem to have a lactose issue, I wouldn't worry about it being from cows. Full fat is definitely good. Also, if you can get your hands on yogurt this should be really good for both of them.

All that said, I'm no expert and there are certainly people on here who know better. But these kittens have a slight chance of survival at best (although they seem to be fighters, bless their little souls) so I'm going to come down on the side of just try whatever you can and good luck!


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## ella (Jan 1, 2009)

dagny0823 said:


> As for the milk powder I'm going to say any nutrition at this point is better than nothing and since she doesn't seem to have a lactose issue, I wouldn't worry about it being from cows. Full fat is definitely good. Also, if you can get your hands on* yogurt *this should be really good for both of them.


Hi,

the reason cows milk is bad is because of the lactose, which is low in goats milk. However, processing cows milk can reduce the lactose - so yoghurt, even soft cream cheese may be better than nothing at all, if it's all you can get.

(I'm lactose intolerant myself so know these are lower lactose from personal experience)


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

how come if you only have electricity for ONE hour THREE times aday, you have been online for over an hour and a half some days and been on upto five times aday?!


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

yeahuloveme said:


> how come if you only have electricity for ONE hour THREE times aday, you have been online for over an hour and a half some days and been on upto five times aday?!


Internet cafe? :glare:


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

So far my kitten seems quieter(I forgot to add yogurt to the gloop, is that bad?), my friend isn't that optimistic, as his kitten shows no sign of improvement,we are trying to keep them warm and dry, ease the pain if he can, his kitten looks so bad,I sometimes wish it just dies and rest.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Friend's PC, one phone call at a time, besides, I work from 8 am to 5 pm so naturally at work we have net,simple as that, besides I never sign out from my account.
and people, we do live in Iraq, but please, we have Galaxy note and all,net is no big deal.
you needn't to know that but just to clarify matters


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

got two questions if i may, first, my friend just informed me that his kitten have drank almost a full syringe after it could only drink half and even less, the dropping is still slimy and all, but it began to turn to yellowish color after it was white, that happened today after starting feeding him the gloop (should I add yogurts now?) and the other question is: how many times should I heat and reheat the gloop? I keep it in a cooler box since there is no electricity, so it stays cold but not frozen,will it looses some of its benefits from reheating? I re-heat it in microwave.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

dagny0823 said:


> This must be so difficult to watch. I have a feeling your kitten is full of worms, and there's really nothing to do for that except to worm her. Since there's nothing available there and I think time is running out, I Googled natural de-wormer for kittens, in the hope I could find something that you might be able to lay your hands on. The best I can come up with is diatomaceous earth and ground pumpkin seeds, both of which can be added as a powder to food. I have no idea if these are things you can get or how well the pumpkin seed works (I've used the earth and results take a while as it doesn't kill the worms immediately--it lacerates their bodies so they dehydrate).
> 
> As for the milk powder I'm going to say any nutrition at this point is better than nothing and since she doesn't seem to have a lactose issue, I wouldn't worry about it being from cows. Full fat is definitely good. Also, if you can get your hands on yogurt this should be really good for both of them.
> 
> All that said, I'm no expert and there are certainly people on here who know better. But these kittens have a slight chance of survival at best (although they seem to be fighters, bless their little souls) so I'm going to come down on the side of just try whatever you can and good luck!


Thank you so much for your trouble, I will try that and will try and search for it tomorrow,if i didn't find pumpkin seeds, do they make oil from pumpkin seeds? and is it the same as whole seeds?
Thank you again my friend.


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## spacedementia (Nov 18, 2011)

Are we allowed to post links on here?
If so this website seems to have lots of useful information which might help  Good luck!

Kitten Supplement - an Emergency Formula for Newborn Kittens


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

spacedementia said:


> Are we allowed to post links on here?
> If so this website seems to have lots of useful information which might help  Good luck!
> 
> Kitten Supplement - an Emergency Formula for Newborn Kittens


thanks alot


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

fifo said:


> got two questions if i may, first, my friend just informed me that his kitten have drank almost a full syringe after it could only drink half and even less, the dropping is still slimy and all, but it began to turn to yellowish color after it was white, that happened today after starting feeding him the gloop (should I add yogurts now?) and the other question is: how many times should I heat and reheat the gloop? I keep it in a cooler box since there is no electricity, so it stays cold but not frozen,will it looses some of its benefits from reheating? I re-heat it in microwave.


The big danger with constant reheating and cooling is bacteria grow faster than if it's kept cool.

Reheat just a little at a time, and throw away any that doesn't get eaten.

And a good way of keeping things cool without electricity is a pottery cooler. This shows you the sort of thing I mean:

Zeer pot fridge | Practical Action


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

fifo said:


> Thank you so much for your trouble, I will try that and will try and search for it tomorrow,if i didn't find pumpkin seeds, do they make oil from pumpkin seeds? and is it the same as whole seeds?
> Thank you again my friend.


The site I read said to grind up whole seeds with the shells on them. I think it's a combination of the oil and the grittiness that works. I suppose you could grind with a mortar and pestle. I didn't think pumpkins in general would be available there, but perhaps some similar thing----does anyone know if gourds are safe for cats?


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

hello my friends,I've got another question, my friend's kitten which i told you about who is all bone and skin, after we made the gloop and he's feeding it every three or two hours, he is showing signs of improvement, not what one would hope for, but for example, after its skin looked so sickly and wrinkled, now it shows signs of returning to its former shape, not very visible for us but my sister said it looked better that the last time, its sleeping better and with little noise or flailing and its eyes are opening now, my poor kitten which had similar symptoms dies after three days, this one has lasted a week, it now poops as any normal kitten, do you think it passed the danger zone? should we hope that it will recover? or is it a temporary situation then it will die as well?

my friend has grown very attached to the little one, but he won't name it just yet, not until he is sure it passed the danger zone and might have a chance to live.

He would like to thank you since he doesn't speak English well, and many thanks from me as well.


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## scatchy (Nov 29, 2011)

Hi fifo
I don't know if this is of any help but a charity Nowzad dogs has a shelter somewhere in Iraq if you could find their phone number they may be able to advise you.(they also rescue cats)
Also this info about had rearing kittens may be useful
HANDREARING KITTENS

"motherless, frail kittens"I have written this article to give basic advice to people unexpectedly faced with tiny motherless, frail kittens with no idea of how to deal with the situation. I have lost count of the number of people in the past who have rung me in despair, either because they did not know what to do, or because they had improvised and things had gone tragically wrong: "...had we only known all this...". One so quickly grows fond of these little creatures, and it is traumatic to lose them after all one's efforts. However, handrearing is really quite simple, once you know how.

A newborn kitten is entirely dependent on its mother. The queen provides three vital requirements:

warmth;
food;
stimulation of the bowel and bladder, and general hygiene.

The human substitute has to provide all of these to enable the kittens to survive. I will cover each in turn.
1) WARMTH

I'll illustrate this with the procedure followed in a typical rescue case. Five two-day-old kittens were found in a puddle on a building site. Three were already dead, but the others, though very cold, wet and seemingly lifeless, were still breathing. Their umbilical cords were still attached and therefore a warm bath was out of the question (in any case, bathing is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS for kittens, and must be avoided under any circumstances). The priority was to get the two survivors dry and warm, so they were first rubbed thoroughly with a rough towel to stimulate the circulation. Next, a hot water bottle was prepared, wrapped in a thick layer of newspaper, placed inside an old woollen sweater and the whole laid in a box. This arrangement will maintain a suitable temperature for 2-4 hours. The kittens, now dry, were placed on top and covered with a loosely-crocheted blanket to create a perfect warm capsule, with about 2" of the box left uncovered.

Simply putting kittens "by the fire", as many well-meaning people do, is not good enough: the warmth has to be skin-close to imitate the mother's body, which is normally folded right round the kittens. A queen will never deliberately leave her young kittens for more than a few moments. If you are worried that the kittens might overheat, add a further layer of newspaper over the hot water bottle, and place a folded towel in the box beside the covered hot-water bottle. Even very young kittens will instinctively crawl to an area with the right temperature.

Cold kittens are too weak to suckle and swallow, and they are unable to digest properly, so only when the kittens have started to warm up do I prepare their food.

Tiny is bottle reared
2) FOOD

If you are taken by surprise with no pet shop or vet nearby, an eye dropper, or a cotton bud covered with muslin or cotton lawn from which the kitten can suck, will do to give a little improvised liquid food. Evaporated milk diluted with three parts of boiled, cooled water is suitable in emergency; even glucose water (1 teaspoon of glucose powder per cup of boiled water) will serve, but only as the first feed and if the kitten is desperately hungry (however, for a very weak kitten, this is the best mixture to use for the first feed). Cat food manufacturers advise us that the lactose-reduced "cat milk" sold in cartons is NOT SUITABLE for bottle-feeding kittens.

The prepared feed should be slightly below blood temperature: a drop placed on the back of the hand should feel neither warm nor cold.

The first sips should be given drop by drop to be sure everything is swallowed - you may need to stimulate swallowing by gently stroking the throat after each drop. After the first few drops a kitten will usually get an appetite and start suckling actively, but failing that you should continue with the drop method. It is essential to take things slowly and carefully, as if any food - even the smallest amount - gets into the lungs, infection and death will inevitably follow.

As soon as you can, get a proper feeder and teats, and a scientifically formulated milk substitute.

Which drinking bottle is the best?

The CATAC Standard Feeder is safe, but it is not easy for people with narrow fingers to use: I find it better to use a syringe fitted with a CATAC teat (designed especially for kittens). Start with a 1 ml syringe, using bigger ones as the kitten grows and is able to suckle harder. The hole in the teat should be just big enough to allow drops of milk to appear slowly at the end of the teat without added pressure. Ideally the kitten should suck so that the plunger moves down the barrel of the syringe without any pressure from your hand, but you may occasionally need to use the GENTLEST POSSIBLE pressure until the kitten gets the idea. Replace the syringe as soon as the plunger starts to stick - this may be necessary daily. If milk appears at the sides of the kitten's mouth or - even worse - bubbles from the nose, then the flow is far too fast and the kitten is in serious trouble. Stop instantly, hold the kitten with the head slightly below the rest of the body, and tap its back gently with two fingers to stop it choking. Occasionally a very hungry kitten will "fight" the bottle in its anxiety and desperation: in this case gently steady its head with your fingers and guide the teat into the mouth.

Choice of food and time-table

CIMICAT is a milk powder specially formulated for kittens, and available from vets and some pet shops. It may be necessary to use a baby whisk to get a smooth mixture when making up the feed. Although CIMICAT is usually ideal and produces strong, healthy kittens, it may be too rich for some and cause diarrhoea. If this happens, switch to Lactol, which is less rich. If the kitten gets diarrhoea, the next two feeds should be rice water (drained from well-cooked white rice) to soothe the stomach, followed by a third feed of a mixture of equal quantities of Lactol and rice water, before going back to a pure milk feed to which one drop per day of Abidec Baby Vitamins may be added. This simple remedy, adapted from a method used for human babies, has effected miraculous cures, even with tiny kittens.

Patience and discipline are needed to handrear a kitten successfully, and this includes keeping the bedding and feeding equipment meticulously clean to avoid infection.

As with human babies, food must be given at short, regular intervals. The following guide has proved successful.

Days 1-21 For the first 7 days, pure milk feeds every 2-21/2 hours, day and night, intervals increasing to 21/2-3 hours (day and night) for days 7-21. Newborn kittens may take as little as 1 ml per feed, but the appetite increases rapidly. The amount taken at each feed depends entirely on the kitten's appetite: stop feeding when the kitten stops suckling actively, and NEVER force it to take food. CIMICAT comes complete with instructions and a feeding chart, but in my experience the suggested quantities per feed are a minimum. Use the chart as a rough guide only and feed according to appetite.

Days 21-28 Feeds every 3 hours: an occasional interval of 31/2 hours is possible when enriched feeds are given - this longer interval may be most convenient in the middle of the night, to allow the nurse a little more sleep. (NOTE: it is important during the first 3 weeks that kittens are not left for too long an interval, not only because they need food, but also because a kitten may wet itself, get cold and become ill). In preparation for weaning, three of the milk feeds daily can now be enriched with approximately 1 level teaspoon per kitten of powdered baby rice stirred into the warm milk (for kittens over 31/2 weeks chicken flavoured powdered food, for babies from 3 months, may be added instead): enriched feeds should be alternated with pure milk feeds. If the kitten rejects pure milk feeds after having sampled the tastier mixture, a small amount of cereal can be added to every bottle. Some kittens just under 3 weeks old may no longer be satisfied with pure milk and will still be hungry after a milk feed. If this happens, put a small amount of cereal in future feeds.

4 week old kittens

Day 28 onwards At about age 4 weeks you can start teaching the kittens to eat. This is very easy using a scientifically formulated, tinned weaning food (available from vets and some pet shops, but not sold in supermarkets). Initially this should be liquidised with plenty of the enriched feed and given using a teaspoon. Wetting the little mouth with a small amount on the finger always does the trick: as a reflex action the kitten will lick its lips and will readily continue lapping from the spoon held against its mouth. Gradually lower the spoon to the plate until the kitten is eating directly from the plate. NEVER "dip its nose in": how would you like to start dinner by having your face pushed into the soup and inhaling it through your nose? If the kitten is not ready to start weaning (it will turn its face away or shake its head when offered the weaning food), wait one or 2 days before trying again.

The 3 enriched daytime meals should now consist of this mixture, alternating with milk feeds. Some kittens like to continue to bottle-feed for a considerable time: you should allow this, but also encourage them to eat by themselves by leaving small bowls of food, boiled water and milk feed in the pen at all times, with a larger meal prepared last thing at night. The kittens will usually be eating within 2 or 3 days, allowing their by now exhausted human nurse a longer break at night. By 6 weeks of age the weaning food can be mixed with or replaced by tinned kitten food, together with liquidised or very finely chopped chicken breast. All food should be nicely moist and mushy, and palatable vitamin tablets (obtained from your vet) should be added.

Food should be available at all times and 5 times each 24 hours anything left uneaten should be replaced with a freshly prepared meal.

At 8 weeks offer 4 freshly prepared meals daily (including the night meal); at 12 weeks 3 meals. Up to 12 weeks I include at least one meal daily of freshly cooked chicken or fish, and when asked whether that is not rather extravagant, point out that even using every trick in the book and all possible care we can never take the place of a mother cat. We should at least try our very best: after all, a good start can save a lot of trouble later.


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

It sounds like it has improved quite a lot, if you continue to take good care of it, it should stand a good chance


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

@scatchy 

Thank you so much, I sent them a message just now.

Let's hope they answer soon.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

You are not out of the woods with this kitten for quite some time, but it sounds like it's improving. A wrinkly skin sounds like dehydration. Do you know how to test by lifting the scruff of the neck? If it is, there are plenty of recipies on the Internet for making oral rehydration fluid - it's the same for cats & people. Spoon a teaspoon full, check an hour or so later, give it another teaspoon full if it's still dehydrated, and so on.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> You are not out of the woods with this kitten for quite some time, but it sounds like it's improving. A wrinkly skin sounds like dehydration. Do you know how to test by lifting the scruff of the neck? If it is, there are plenty of recipies on the Internet for making oral rehydration fluid - it's the same for cats & people. Spoon a teaspoon full, check an hour or so later, give it another teaspoon full if it's still dehydrated, and so on.


Can you please clarify a little more?what is this rehydration fluid?I would be very thankful if you can help me. and moreover, its skin is peeled at the joints and I don't know what to do, high temperatures here makes me afraid of infestation or worse, these past few days have been like a roller coaster for this kitten.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

From what I've read, it's basically a mixture of water, glucose (for sugar) and salt to replace electrolytes. If you have any products there for babies that do this (we have Pediasure here) those work really well. Or any sorts of sports drinks for adults, like Gatorade......I doubt you have anything resembling the same brand names, but I would guess that you at least have similar products.

And here's a recipe I just found online:

Boil 2 cups of water;
Add 5 teaspoons of sugar and stir until it dissolves;
Add 1/4 teaspoon of salt and stir until it dissolves; and
Allow the mixture to cool. It must be warm, but not hot


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Google will find plenty of recipies. But, *only give it if the kitten is dehydrated* - if the scruff of it's neck doesn't ping back down if you lift it. It should behaving like the skin on the back of a young person's hand. On an old person you pinch up a fold and it tends to stay.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

the problem with this little kitten is not feeding it, but stimulating it, its skin is so thin and damaged that he (my friend) fears to touch it because he might cause it more pain, but he is able to stimulate it to pee but to poop is much difficult, the little kitten sometimes poop by itself, is that good? I saw the poor creature today and I could see the reddened swollen skin on its hind legs and its tummy, but its bones are less visible now and it drank a whole syringe today and it cries when its hungry (something it didn't do when it had Diarrhea), so should I give it this solution of boiled water, sugar and salt? I hope it doesn't affect it in the future,that is:If it survives.

I will try and take pictures of the kitten as well as my own kittens.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

You ONLY give it the sugar / salt solution if it is dehydrated. 

From another website:
To check for dehydration, gently pinch a bit of skin at the back of the cat's neck. When released, it should immediately fall back in place. If it takes a few seconds, it's indicative of loss of elasticity which is a characteristic of dehydration.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

OrientalSlave said:


> Google will find plenty of recipies. But, *only give it if the kitten is dehydrated* - if the scruff of it's neck doesn't ping back down if you lift it. It should behaving like the skin on the back of a young person's hand. On an old person you pinch up a fold and it tends to stay.


Sorry---from what she was describing it sounded like the kitten was really dehydrated, so I figured I'd pass the recipe along just in case.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

dagny0823 said:


> Sorry---from what she was describing it sounded like the kitten was really dehydrated, so I figured I'd pass the recipe along just in case.


I agree that it sounded like the kitten is or was dehydrated, but the OP's reply didn't suggest to me she has really checked.

The OP has to make their own mind up about it's current condition. They can probably find a video on YouTube (or elsewhere) if they do some Googling.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Sorry I wasn't clear earlier, I checked the skin on its neck and it took several secs to return to its normal place, so we prepared the solution to give it to the kitten but it just rejected it and my friend tried to force it gently but the little one almost choked so we abandoned the thought for now, can it be mixed with the gloop or is it not a good idea?

My own kitten she seems fine and drinks hungrily, clean, fat and playful. opened her eyes two days ago. my other kitten (I have a queen and her 2 months old kitten) seems interested in her and comes and lick her as well as play with her.

:smilewinkgrin:


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

You could mix it with the gloopand yes, the kitten sounds very dehydrated. Sounds like your friend feed too much, too fast. If you very slowly trickle it into the side of the kittens mouth it will swallow most of it, and it really is worth persevering with given that the kitten is badly in need of rehydration.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Thank you for your advice,the kitten is drinking, he feeds it every two hours now with the mixed gloop/re hydration solution stuff. He also cleans it regularly.

I will keep you updated with any news.

Gotta go feed them now, since today is Friday and its my only holiday in the week. Will spend it on caring for the little one.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Once he is rehydrated, stop addng the rehydration liquid to his food. Also check very carefully you are making it up correctly. If it's too strong he will get dehydrated again, if it's too weak he won't get enough nutrition.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

fifo said:


> Sorry I wasn't clear earlier, I checked the skin on its neck and it took several secs to return to its normal place, so we prepared the solution to give it to the kitten but it just rejected it and my friend tried to force it gently but the little one almost choked so we abandoned the thought for now, can it be mixed with the gloop or is it not a good idea?
> 
> My own kitten she seems fine and drinks hungrily, clean, fat and playful. opened her eyes two days ago. my other kitten (I have a queen and her 2 months old kitten) seems interested in her and comes and lick her as well as play with her.
> 
> :smilewinkgrin:


This is amazingly good news indeed for your kitten. And from your next post, it sounds like the other kitten might just turn the corner at last. I'm so hopeful and I'm glad you have a day off to care for them all.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Just Wanted to update my kitten's and my friend's kitten status.
They are both fine, the sickly one got better after giving her re-hydration solution regularly. But have a small problem, the skin around the hind legs is kinda red and seems to bother it (By the way, I convinced my friend to give him to me, since my sister can feed them both while we are at work and besides, when grow up I wanted them to be playmates and the dehydrated kitten needs to be fed every hour or so). I clean them both twice a day but I can't see a big difference, but at least he is eating well, from half a syringe to two and a half syringe. Still not sure what to call them.

And finally, Thank you guys, you have been a tremendous help the past two weeks.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

fifo said:


> Just Wanted to update my kitten's and my friend's kitten status.
> They are both fine, the sickly one got better after giving her re-hydration solution regularly. But have a small problem, the skin around the hind legs is kinda red and seems to bother it (By the way, I convinced my friend to give him to me, since my sister can feed them both while we are at work and besides, when grow up I wanted them to be playmates and the dehydrated kitten needs to be fed every hour or so). I clean them both twice a day but I can't see a big difference, but at least he is eating well, from half a syringe to two and a half syringe. Still not sure what to call them.
> 
> And finally, Thank you guys, you have been a tremendous help the past two weeks.


I keep checking this thread, fearing the worst and I'm always relieved that the kittens are hanging in there and improving. They are little fighters indeed. I sounds like you are doing the right things for them. And I'm glad you've got your sister watching them both since she can give them constant care, which I think they still need for the time being.

I don't know about the redness on the one kitten's skin, and I don't know what you have available to you--maybe some very mild warm salt water would help heal it? Is there any way you can take a picture? It would help I'm sure, but I realize your access to all those technological luxuries is most likely limited.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

dagny0823 said:


> I keep checking this thread, fearing the worst and I'm always relieved that the kittens are hanging in there and improving. They are little fighters indeed. I sounds like you are doing the right things for them. And I'm glad you've got your sister watching them both since she can give them constant care, which I think they still need for the time being.
> 
> I don't know about the redness on the one kitten's skin, and I don't know what you have available to you--maybe some very mild warm salt water would help heal it? Is there any way you can take a picture? It would help I'm sure, but I realize your access to all those technological luxuries is most likely limited.


I got Galaxy note actually, but I was pre occupied with them, I always think that when I finish feeding them then I'll take a picture for you guys but after I tuck them in and they fall asleep wrapped around one another its kinda hard to wake them and take a pic, but will do it today for sure, Thank you for your care my friend...

May I ask why is he not gaining weight? please don't say worms, could it be that he has suffered alot and may take a while to regain weight? but he eats almost double than before ( two or two and a half syringes).

Any advice?


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

fifo said:


> I got Galaxy note actually, but I was pre occupied with them, I always think that when I finish feeding them then I'll take a picture for you guys but after I tuck them in and they fall asleep wrapped around one another its kinda hard to wake them and take a pic, but will do it today for sure, Thank you for your care my friend...
> 
> May I ask why is he not gaining weight? please don't say worms, could it be that he has suffered alot and may take a while to regain weight? but he eats almost double than before ( two or two and a half syringes).
> 
> Any advice?


I understand about the pics and while we'd all like to see these little wonderful fighters too :001_wub: if you could get a picture of the one's skin, maybe it would help in suggestions to make it better.

As for the weight issue, I fear worms (sorry ), but it could also be that he's just got a lot of ground to make up and it will take him longer to pull himself back up. Does he have a pot belly, not just after he eats, but all of the time? If so, it's most likely worms. If it's just after eating, then he's just taking longer to recover--he has been really really ill after all.

I had a thought about wormer, however. You said there aren't vets around for pets, but only for farm animals. I know one of the major wormers used in the UK and US are used for cats, dogs, cattle, horses, sheep, etc--it's safe for all of them because it poisons the worm itself by (usually) paralyzing it, not by doing anything to the host animal. That said, of course, you have to be careful not to overdose, because too much wormer can hurt the animal and I'm not sure about very young kittens either. But I thought it might be worth a shot to call a vet and see if they can mix up a very small dose for you. Hopefully someone else can weigh in on this too as I know some wormers aren't suitable for very small kittens, but fine for cats--I think because the young system just can't handle them before a certain age.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Thank you so much dagny0823 for the wonderful advice, I will try and contact a vet that a charity organisation gave me his number, as for the pictures, I took them but after transferring them to my laptop they won't open but hay, maybe you can see them, My phone is Galaxy note.  See my little gladiators 

As for the pot belly, yeah, they both get it after they drink. So no worms maybe? that word is a nightmare, I mean, some illness I could find a cure (or a substitute for) but I don't know why worms seems so much worse than anything


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

They are lovely looking kittens the 1 in the 1st pic you can see the sores on hind legs and tail poor wee thing.They do have nice round bellys im not sure if that is worms or not sorry.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi. Just a thought - those sores look a bit like bed sores, I wonder if there are any remedies for bedsores available? I think that some people use Manuka honey, or vitamin E. They also look a bit like infected nappy rash - have you got any simple remedies for either of those? I think that it is important to keep both of these conditions as dry as you can.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Gosh that kitten looks thin with his spine showing like that. If you can get hold of Panacur paste which can be used for kittens from 2 weeks old. I think you have to weigh the kitten each time to make sure you give the right dose. Try online.

This is the UK information about it:
Panacur wormer paste- small dogs, cats kittens and puppies-Hyperdrug


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Thank you for the information my friend.
I know he is awfully thin, and in reality he is way thinner, but his spin is less visible now,at first i thought it might be worms because he is so thin (since i can't really be sure, so i guessed) but his belly only gets fat after drinking.so hopefully no worms??

but if personality and behavior counts, since we began feeding him the rehydration solution, he became much comfortable and sleeps better, and plays with the other kitten in the pic. so i hope its a good sign.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Playing is a good sign, but _all_ kittens should be wormed whatever their background - and his is far from the best.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

I'm worried, something is wrong with my kitten, his head is dangling as if he can't lift it and his appetite has decreased, his body is somehow cold, even though the room's temperature is very good and his litter is warm, but he is cold, I robbed him till he got his heat back but now his voice is so weak. why is that happening?


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

you need to get some towl's warm, either in a tumble drier, or out in the sun for a bit, or do what I do and put them in my top and hold them close, skin to skin contact.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

It doesn't sound good I'm afraid. The only thing you can do is to try to warm him up, this needs heat directly under him. I know you are in a hot country but I have always been very surprised at how warm young kittens need to be. However it may be that he is dying. I am sorry.

Liz


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

I keep checking for updates---I fear the worst, but hoping for the best as always.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

i'm sorry but I have bad news, he died the white one (I named him Abiad,which means white in Arabic) it was so sudden,only two days ago wr was fine and drinking happily and playign with Katy (the black and white kitten I founf) but then he just won't eat and his body temperature got colder and his stomach felt so cold, just when I began to treat the sores on his hinf legs and that happened to him, he breathed his last breath not two hours ago.i can;t believe it he just was hanging to life so strongly but gave up and its my fault in the forst palce i shoudln;t have fed him vow;s milk' thanl you ebery one for yyoiur help and patience you have been great


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

I was afraid that had happened. The way you described him yesterday didn't sound good at all. 

Please don't blame yourself. You did all that you could for them under difficult circumstances. Abiad and Katy had all the odds stacked against them, and Katy is the only one who seems to be beating them. At least you gave Abiad love and care and he didn't pass from this world only having known the children who probably killed his mother and thought he was fun to throw around. Kittens are so very fragile. We found our Kirby and Freja thrown in a cold wet ditch. Their other littermates were dead or dying--one drew his last breath while I watched, trying to get to him to save him. We kept the two who lived for 6 weeks when they just suddenly started to get sick. They went from playing to lethargic in a few hours. Freja died at the vet's office where they had said she was looking better. Kirby died in my hands. We were broken hearted for weeks after, so I know how horrible you must feel. I kept thinking there was something else we could have done. But most likely there really wasn't. I still miss them so much.

He's at peace now and hopefully his sister will continue to fight and you'll have a dear friend for life.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

he was so loving you know?loved to snuggle in my palms and purrs after feeding and I would hold him close till we both fall asleep and him placing his tiny nose next my cheek and i'm gonna miss his strong cries when he is hungry and wants food and right now it just stroke me that he is gone and i have no one to speal\k to his place is empty now he drew his last breath in my hands and looked like he is fighting for air he was so tiny


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## Jansheff (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm so sorry you lost the little one. But at least someone loved him and made him comfortable. I hope the other one continues to thrive.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

fifo said:


> he was so loving you know?loved to snuggle in my palms and purrs after feeding and I would hold him close till we both fall asleep and him placing his tiny nose next my cheek and i'm gonna miss his strong cries when he is hungry and wants food and right now it just stroke me that he is gone and i have no one to speal\k to his place is empty now he drew his last breath in my hands and looked like he is fighting for air he was so tiny


He sounds so much like little Freja. Every night she would come up on my chest and sit down with her nose touching my chin and her tiny little paws tucked under her and she would purr until she fell asleep. I know exactly what you mean--I miss that still, and I miss her "silent meow" where she would open her little mouth and nothing would come out, but she'd look so serious about it. Please know that you did your best for him and that he is watching over you from Rainbow Bridge and maybe when the time is right, he'll send another little waif your way who needs you. Those we love are never lost....they are only gone until we find our way back to them again.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am sorry that the little kitten did not make it  You did your best in conditions most of us here wouldn't even want to think about, please don't blame yourself for his loss.
RIP little Abiad


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

She Freja sounds so special and loving and you had her for some time and l'm sure she left something behind with you to remember her by it just like my Abiad and his loving nature 
Katy is missing her brother as they used to wrap themselves around one another and now she is here right next to me and i hope i would not make the same mistakes i did with Abiad
I wish you raise your pets safe and sound and wish you all good health and good life
and wish you good night and many thanks for your kind words and advice everyone you were great


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

So sorry to hear about poor Abiad but you did a brilliant job. Even though you said you shouldn't have fed them cows milk, you weren't to know until you came on here and you did a brilliant job with the formula you made. I understand you're sad, but you should be proud of yourself that you did the very best you could and I bet Abiad knew how loved he was as he passed.

I wish you all the best with Katy, I'm praying for her continued good health and if she grows into a mature cat, you will definitely have a friend for life.


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## yeahuloveme (Mar 30, 2012)

I know I questioned how much you said was true, but ill give you the benefit of the doubt, and I am sorry to hear, some times they just are not strong enough to make it. they had a better life while they were with you than they would have done, so you should be proud.

And if it was all true, I am sorry for doubting you.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

So sorry to hear about this. However, you did an amazing job in impossible circumstances. You did the best you could, bless you.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

fifo said:


> She Freja sounds so special and loving and you had her for some time and l'm sure she left something behind with you to remember her by it just like my Abiad and his loving nature
> Katy is missing her brother as they used to wrap themselves around one another and now she is here right next to me and i hope i would not make the same mistakes i did with Abiad
> I wish you raise your pets safe and sound and wish you all good health and good life
> and wish you good night and many thanks for your kind words and advice everyone you were great


Freja was a wonderful kitten, and so was her brother Kirby. It was so hard watching them suffer like they did, although it wasn't for more than an hour or so. They went very quickly, as kittens can, Kirby before we could even get him to a vet. I know Katy must be lonely now, so she needs you, your love and most of all your care, right now more than ever. Please keep us updated on her---I hope that she will thrive and give you a lifetime of love for all that you've done for her and her sad little littermates, so badly treated by thoughtless hooligans.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

dagny0823 said:


> Freja was a wonderful kitten, and so was her brother Kirby. It was so hard watching them suffer like they did, although it wasn't for more than an hour or so. They went very quickly, as kittens can, Kirby before we could even get him to a vet. I know Katy must be lonely now, so she needs you, your love and most of all your care, right now more than ever. Please keep us updated on her---I hope that she will thrive and give you a lifetime of love for all that you've done for her and her sad little littermates, so badly treated by thoughtless hooligans.


I'm so sorry about Kirby and Freja, but I know they had an amazing person who loved and cared for them, you did a great job rescuing them from that ditch and even though they didn't live long but they had a home and someone who loved them so much.We both miss our dear kittens, I know i still miss my Sox (both the one I raised as a kitten to maturity and died by a car and the little one before Abiad). now I got Katy to care for.

She is lonely that's very true, so I pick her up and place her on my chest till she falls asleep (after so much movement) and when she falls asleep she looks so peaceful, my other kitten (Named her Shihta)who is three months old is very interested in her and always sit next to me while i feed Katy,then she would lick her clean then would topple her when she crawls (you know how little kittens walk, especially after a full belly) and I would sit down and watch them. Shihta is very gentle with Katy though, and I think she wants a playmate since all her litter mates didn't make it

here is a picture of our beloved Shihta


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

Ohh my word, Shihta is just beautiful! I may just have to steal her from you!


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Shihta is gorgeous!!!! I'm so glad they'll have each other to grow up with and that they have you to take care of them.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

quick update : Katy

Katy seems happy now, getting fatter by the day (She has a tiny head compared to her round ball-like body) and now she is measuring her environment (aka:my bed) before attempting to jump off it, I let her stay and sleep with me at night since she cries pitifully for someone to hold her, her teeth are starting to show and she is testing them on my fingers and skin  but she has such gorgeous eyes that it makes it hard to pull my fingers away from her tiny mouth and now she is starting to recognize her name (or maybe the sound I make) and would come bouncing on her tiny feet. Shihta saved her the other day from falling from the second floor to a certain death by shoving her away from the stairs' opening then staying with her till I found them (I know I was careless that day and it was an unusual luck that Shihta was there,so I took precautions), Shihta was rewarded a big, fat chicken fried leg and wings(she deserved it after all  ) and now she is with Katy grooming her, which i find as odd, I never though kittens could be affectionate towards other kittens 

...


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

That's really brilliant news, and what a good job Shihta was there! I'm not sure fried chicken is good for cats because of the oil. Raw would be much better.


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Rabbitmonkee said:


> That's really brilliant news, and what a good job Shihta was there! I'm not sure fried chicken is good for cats because of the oil. Raw would be much better.


I don't give them fried food all the time, only as a treat, but is it true that if you keep on feeding cats raw food they turn feral? I personally don't believe that and I know its better to give them raw meat (cat food is sold in place far from my home, so I just feed them fish and chicken meat).

Shihta also help us with catching cockroach-control  as she hunts them down and :sad: eat them. Trying to stop her from eating them.


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

I understand that it's just a treat, but if you have the meat to give to her as a treat, rather than just cook it, just feed it raw. Fried foods, even as a treat, are not at all good for a cat. 

Feral cats will eat raw food in the forms of birds and small rodents. All cats, whether feral or domesticated would be much better on an all-raw diet, as that is their natural diet in the wild.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

fifo said:


> is it true that if you keep on feeding cats raw food they turn feral? I personally don't believe that and I know its better to give them raw meat (cat food is sold in place far from my home, so I just feed them fish and chicken meat).
> 
> Shihta also help us with catching cockroach-control  as she hunts them down and :sad: eat them. Trying to stop her from eating them.


No! One of mine gets a raw chicken wing each day and there is nothing feral about her. She's 5 now and has been getting wings for over 4 years.

Fish isn't a good food - fish-flavour cat food doesn't contain very much of it. It's Ok occasionally as a treat, and should always be cooked.

I imagine cockroachs are quite good for Shihta! I had a cat that would hunt, kill and eat flies. However many there were in the room it took him about 1/2 hour to get them all. Sadly the two current Masters aren't interested in them though they have caught some birds and a mouse...


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## Ingrid25 (Oct 1, 2011)

awww Shihta is gorgeous! May we pleeeease hve a picture of Katy!
Its sounds like Shihta and Katy are going to be the best of friends and good thing Shihta was there for Katy on the stairs!


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## fifo (May 11, 2012)

Ingrid25 said:


> awww Shihta is gorgeous! May we pleeeease hve a picture of Katy!
> Its sounds like Shihta and Katy are going to be the best of friends and good thing Shihta was there for Katy on the stairs!


I took several pictures of her but they never capture her truly but I will post them soon my friend ^_^

Shihta now stays full time with Katy but is it safe they stay together? I remember reading about diseases that are transferred from cats to kittens, so should I separate them now and wait till Katy's a bit older?


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

So happy to hear that Katy is doing so well. She is truly a success story, thanks to you. And it sounds like a beautiful friendship is blossoming between her and Shihta. 

Someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that they've probably shared whatever germs they'll share at this point, so you might as well let them stay together. There is something definitely to be said for not stressing them, as separation would most likely do.


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## RabbitMonster (Mar 20, 2012)

dagny0823 said:


> So happy to hear that Katy is doing so well. She is truly a success story, thanks to you. And it sounds like a beautiful friendship is blossoming between her and Shihta.
> 
> Someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that they've probably shared whatever germs they'll share at this point, so you might as well let them stay together. There is something definitely to be said for not stressing them, as separation would most likely do.


Agreed, they've been together for a while now, so they're lovely and germ-ed up, as it were. I'd just leave them be and watch how the friendship is flourishing


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