# IBD/Colitis



## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

So we have had a pretty crap weekend 
A couple of days ago a load of potting compost with plant feed, purlite and god knows what else was thrown at the side of the garden without my knowledge (the MIL is in my bad books :Muted), when I let Thai out at 6am before work he found it and decided to have a bit of a munch...
By 10 am he threw up his breakfast undigested - I wasn't too worried at this point but then he had a drink and that came up as well (he was vomiting so bad that he was making that horrible groan when you still need to be sick but there is nothing else to come up) - at this point I decided to phone up our emergency vet to get him seen.
On the walk down to the vets (5mins down the road) bloody diarrhea and then just blood!
After a full blood panel including a snap test for pancreatitis he was diagnosed with a pancreatic flare, given fluids (they wanted to admit him but were happy for me to care for him at home because he would not have done well without me), pain relief, anti sickness, gastro guard, antibiotics and prokolin.
After a scary weekend it has been decided that he digested enough toxins to cause an immune system response which has led to IBD/Colitis.

I need to look at a diet change but it's a minefield out there so I thought I'd reach to see what diets have worked for others with colitis just so I have somewhere to start.
Raw isn't really an option due to sourcing issues and no freezer space, but I haven't ruled out a home cooked diet if that is what he needs.

So yeah, any help?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Do they thing the IBD/Colitis will be permanent, or might it resolve after his body is able to recover? 

If it's not forever I'd be tempted to do a very basic home cooked, rice and offal/tripe for a while, or even some gentle limited ingredient food. And then slowly add things back in as you think he can tolerate them.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Do they thing the IBD/Colitis will be permanent, or might it resolve after his body is able to recover?
> 
> If it's not forever I'd be tempted to do a very basic home cooked, rice and offal/tripe for a while, or even some gentle limited ingredient food. And then slowly add things back in as you think he can tolerate them.


They don't know, it could be a temp thing but the damage could be too much...at the moment he is getting cod and rice with some wet food that the vet gave us mixed in for lunch, but he isn't able to eat much at the moment. The emergency vet gave us two days worth of Cerenia (anti-sickness) and everything was looking good, but by the evening the excess drooling came back and he was obviously uncomfortable...I've picked up some more Cerenia now but honestly I'm not so sure he will recover 100%

The plan is to keep him on the fish and rice for now and hopefully start to introduce his regular food once the sickness stops (thankfully no more blood and his poop is pretty much back to normal) but thinking worse case scenario I wanted to research diets just in case.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Well you know what I'd suggest 

Good for dogs with Pancreatitis too 

Good old *Chappie *


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

In addition to the anti sickness, see if they'll give you an antacid that he can have with meals. 

It only just happened this weekend, and it take the gut a good 2 weeks if not more to rebuild a good lining and repopulate the healthy bacteria so he may fully recover yet, but I would expect him to be somewhat off for at least 2 weeks especially if he was pooping all blood poor guy 

If you can get a hold of some raw, green tripe that should help too. Though you may need some nausea meds feeding it! :Hungover


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

rona said:


> Well you know what I'd suggest
> 
> Good for dogs with Pancreatitis too
> 
> Good old *Chappie *


Ohhh I wish it was that easy...he is intolerant to poultry and Chappie goes in one end and not so pretty when it comes out 
But thank you for taking the time to reply


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> In addition to the anti sickness, see if they'll give you an antacid that he can have with meals.
> 
> It only just happened this weekend, and it take the gut a good 2 weeks if not more to rebuild a good lining and repopulate the healthy bacteria so he may fully recover yet, but I would expect him to be somewhat off for at least 2 weeks especially if he was pooping all blood poor guy
> 
> If you can get a hold of some raw, green tripe that should help too. Though you may need some nausea meds feeding it! :Hungover


I have insisted on Omeprazole so that base is covered 
Hmm might check to see if my local pet shop can get in some raw green tripe to see what he thinks of it.

I hate seeing him like this


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> Ohhh I wish it was that easy...he is intolerant to poultry and Chappie goes in one end and not so pretty when it comes out
> But thank you for taking the time to reply


Mmm that make it difficult.

Wet food is usually preferable though, for delicate tums I believe

Would fish 4 dogs have anything suitable?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

rona said:


> Would fish 4 dogs have anything suitable?


I will give it a look, thanks


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> I have insisted on Omeprazole so that base is covered


Oh good, that will definitely help. 
Poor guy, but try to be patient, it's only Wednesday. It hasn't even been a week yet! He's a healthy boy, he'll get better


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Bit of good news...after a weekend of not eating much with the last two days steadily eating less and less. He had a Cerenia this afternoon and he has now just polished off a fish, rice vet food mix went off to get a drink and then went back to finish off the flicked rice on the floor and re-lick the bowl to check for extras and then cleaned his muzzle on my legs - and no excess drool so far 
I will see how he goes tonight (he usually stats to look uncomfortable around 11pm) but hopefully he is recovering.


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> I have insisted on Omeprazole so that base is covered
> Hmm might check to see if my local pet shop can get in some raw green tripe to see what he thinks of it.
> 
> I hate seeing him like this


Poor boy 

Hope he's feeling much better soon.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Poor Thai I hope he feels better soon.


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

I have no advice but so sorry to hear he’s unwell and hope he feels better soon!


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## BlueJay (Sep 20, 2013)

Most [email protected] stores stock frozen green tripe, if you have one within a reasonable distance!
Or, if sourcing and storing frozen is an issue, Rocco do pure green tripe in both 400g and 800g tins - might be worth a look?
_70% beef tripe, 1% minerals, 0.2% linseed oil, 28.8% meat stock_

Poor Thai 
Feel better soon, big guy!


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

When Ronnie has a bad bout I find fish and mashed potato works better than the fish and rice


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

niamh123 said:


> When Ronnie has a bad bout I find fish and mashed potato works better than the fish and rice


Oh that might be something worth a try, especially as there is more fibre in potatoes.
Thank you


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> Oh that might be something worth a try, especially as there is more fibre in potatoes.
> Thank you


And you can use instant mash.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Burrowzig said:


> And you can use instant mash.


Ewwwww :Wtf
Only saying that due my hatred of the stuff mind...I will check out the nutrients before discounting it so thanks


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Not 100% but I have just been presented with my slipper after finishing up his breakfast :Nurse:Kiss


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> Ewwwww :Wtf
> Only saying that due my hatred of the stuff mind...I will check out the nutrients before discounting it so thanks


I used to get an instant mash for Ziggy as she had colitis at the drop of a hat, it was made for dogs and also contained herbs for digestion. It was from Land of Holistic Pets and was called Robbies grain free filler. Not currently listed on their site that I could see though (it always was difficult to find), I mailed them to ask if it's still available.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Oh that might be something worth a try, especially as there is more fibre in potatoes.
> Thank you


When I still had Leafy, who suffered from severe food intolerance most of her life, the only food that she was OKish on, apart from Purina HA veterinary diet, was Arden Grange Sensitive ocean white fish and potato.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Twiggy said:


> When I still had Leafy, who suffered from severe food intolerance most of her life, the only food that she was OKish on, apart from Purina HA veterinary diet, was Arden Grange Sensitive ocean white fish and potato.


I was going to suggest that, but if we are talking kibble it has chicken oil in and I wasn't sure if chicken was being avoided.

Just a quick ask @StormyThai has your vet suggested to change food? As am looking at the immediate problem as colitis, so bland diet which you are doing till the colon is really settled

Then you would be looking at lower fat foods to keep pancreatitus at bay, so Burns is the obvious one, others would be foods that have maintenance diets with light or senior diets of the top of my head that would be JWB, Wafcol and Wainwright's, have the lowest fat content.

Currently I wouldn't worry about fibre, feed either mashed potato or white rice. Fibre is probably about the same as we aren't including the skin. Thai needs easy to digest food, vets as you know call it a bland diet, in humans its a low residue diet. So gentle and easy to digest.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

No the vet hasn't suggested a food change yet. The plan is to keep him on easily digestible food while he heals and then hopefully move him back onto his regular food. 
I just like to plan ahead just in case.

Bad night last night...loved his fish and mash with no belly gurgling... however at around 11pm he couldn't settle so I have been sat with him all night... typically he has now settled and is sleeping just in time for me to go to work - I need coffee!!


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

If he needed a food change, might be worth looking at:
https://www.naturediet.co.uk/feel-g...MI_-HErsOl8AIVgrrVCh0QJAkxEAQYASABEgKTPfD_BwE

Hope he's feeling better soon


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Burrowzig said:


> And you can use instant mash.


Just make sure you check the salt content of instant mash as some brands are very salty.

My dog was recently referred to the vet school for investigation into ongoing IBD/colitis issues so I feel your pain.
Food-wise, I guess it depends what approach you want to take - but if you want something easily digestible to give his gut a rest have you considered using the veterinary hypoallergenic diets for a short period?
My dog is currently on Royal Canin HA wet food - it is eye-wateringly expensive and looks/smells vile but he seems to like it and it has helped to some extent with his issues (we are not convinced that his problems are caused by food sensitivity). I am currently feeding him several small meals a day as he seems to do better that way.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Dimwit said:


> Just make sure you check the salt content of instant mash as some brands are very salty.
> 
> My dog was recently referred to the vet school for investigation into ongoing IBD/colitis issues so I feel your pain.
> Food-wise, I guess it depends what approach you want to take - but if you want something easily digestible to give his gut a rest have you considered using the veterinary hypoallergenic diets for a short period?
> My dog is currently on Royal Canin HA wet food - it is eye-wateringly expensive and looks/smells vile but he seems to like it and it has helped to some extent with his issues (we are not convinced that his problems are caused by food sensitivity). I am currently feeding him several small meals a day as he seems to do better that way.


Unfortunately they all contain poultry protein in one form or another and Thai is intolerant to all poultry


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> Unfortunately they all contain poultry protein in one form or another and Thai is intolerant to all poultry


What about hydrolysed foods, where it is already partly broken down so the body doesn't recognise it as an allergen?


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Burrowzig said:


> What about hydrolysed foods, where it is already partly broken down so the body doesn't recognise it as an allergen?


That's what the dimwit is on (sorry, my post wasn't very clear). My usual go-to when he has flare-ups is boiled white fish and potato (he can't have rice) but as the vet wants to rule out food intolerance we are doing a trial of hydrolysed protein food...


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Dimwit said:


> That's what the dimwit is on (sorry, my post wasn't very clear). My usual go-to when he has flare-ups is boiled white fish and potato (he can't have rice) but as the vet wants to rule out food intolerance we are doing a trial of hydrolysed protein food...


It was Thai I was thinking of


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

I've only just caught up, but hydrolysed was going to be my suggestion too. Across the brand spectrum they come with a variety of fat contents, so for Thai I'd go for whatever is lowest. If you needed to for balancing reasons you could do a combo of that and the current home cooked low residue stuff too - would be a more reassuring angle in the longer term re. nutrient thresholds.

And yeah, as @lullabydream says, of the more normal kibble options, Burns has the title for being lowest fat levels across the board. Their sensitive digestion one is pig-based.

(I'd seen he wasn't very well from FB, but hadn't twigged exactly what was up and didn't want to ask. Hope you're coping okay also)


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I want to avoid Burns if I can due to my opinion that they are just an expensive bag of rice lol
Going by the difference in him with the switch from rice to mashed potato I am going to make the call that rice might be off the cards...he doesn't react to it in the way that he does with other foods but there is a definite difference with no gurgling on potato.
Still, it's early days so this could all change as he heals so all suggestions will be considered 

@Torin. It has been a very low spoon week, and I'm still not talking to the MIL - who hasn't even bothered to ask how Thai is


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Going by the difference in him with the switch from rice to mashed potato I am going to make the call that rice might be off the cards...he doesn't react to it in the way that he does with other foods but there is a definite difference with no gurgling on potato.


I use white pudding rice. Seems to work best. Not sure if there's more starch but I cook it to a gloop.
I've used long grain and brown ok once we're over the initial stages.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> *I want to avoid Burns if I can due to my opinion that they are just an expensive bag of rice lol*
> Going by the difference in him with the switch from rice to mashed potato I am going to make the call that rice might be off the cards...he doesn't react to it in the way that he does with other foods but there is a definite difference with no gurgling on potato.
> Still, it's early days so this could all change as he heals so all suggestions will be considered
> 
> @Torin. It has been a very low spoon week, and I'm still not talking to the MIL - who hasn't even bothered to ask how Thai is


I've just put Bungo on Burns and he's on a vegetable version, no rice in sight. Might be worth a look?


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> New I want to avoid Burns if I can due to my opinion that they are just an expensive bag of rice lol


Burns is the only dog food manufacturer that is honest with amounts in their food... When you buy any food and look at the percentage protein, some coming from possibly vegetables foods with 25% protein, that's still really 75% carbs. Yeah fat is in there too, but not a lot.

Burns is also open and honest about their digestability of their food, and for those that hate grains, or high carb food in general their digestability is good.

My only complaint for Burns is you are paying for a brand but then some people do it all the time. Plus they work to the standards exactly which are minimum levels for a dog to thrive. I would prefer 'more' levels in areas but for managing any condition it really is very useful food to use


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Thai had a much better night last night...slept right through 
He did wake me up with a very gurgley tummy though and wanted to eat grass - I gave him his Omeparazole and then offered a small breakfast which he ate with a little bit of encouragement and the the gurgles stopped and now he is having a snooze after his walk.

I hope that I'm not speaking too soon but I think we may be on the right track


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## karenmc (Feb 3, 2018)

I have no advice on food but wanted to say I hope you find a suitable food and Thai is feeling better very soon.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Someone has their "spark" back 









I'm going to give him another week on cod and potato and then try to introduce his normal food...his antibiotics and anti sickness tablets stopped a couple of days ago and he isn't looking uncomfortable after food and slept through for the past two nights


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Someone has their "spark" back
> View attachment 467911
> 
> 
> I'm going to give him another week on cod and potato and then try to introduce his normal food...his antibiotics and anti sickness tablets stopped a couple of days ago and he isn't looking uncomfortable after food and slept through for the past two nights


Fingers firmly crossed for you both.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Great news!!!
Fingers and paws crossed he’s on the right track


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Have you tried charcoal? Great for absorbing toxins and gas. I used Lanes Charcoal tablets for Ziggy, from health food shops. An alternative is charcoal biscuits, but they contain wheat. Or actual charcoal, from charcoal burners/coppice merchants/woodland management.


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

Burrowzig said:


> Have you tried charcoal? Great for absorbing toxins and gas. I used Lanes Charcoal tablets for Ziggy, from health food shops. An alternative is charcoal biscuits, but they contain wheat. Or actual charcoal, from charcoal burners/coppice merchants/woodland management.


Not appropriate given Thai is on medication as charcoal will affect that too, rather than only targeting the problem chemicals.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions ☺
We won't be going down the charcoal route because as @Torin. says, it will effect the meds he is on, also it may hide subtle signs of his belly starting a flare up again.

Well...we had a bad night a couple of nights ago but it was nothing too serious...I stupidly gave him something that I shouldn't have so he was a bit uncomfortable, and he had a very, very gurgly belly this morning but over all he is doing ok.

After speaking to our vet we have decided to keep him on white fish and potato for another 5 days or so and then to start reintroducing proper food to get his diet a bit more balanced. Because he was on salmon and rice at the time everything went "tits" up and the obvious difference between fresh rice and potato we have decided to change his food to white fish and potato to see how he gets on.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I’m sorry you’ve had a set back. It only takes the slightest thing so don’t beat yourself up. It can be done but may take a while.
I’ve had dreadful trouble in the past getting Heidi from bland diet to food. Trying different foods in vain. Each time she had a set back that food was no longer viable . My transitions albeit I thought gradual were too fast. We’d often hit 50/50 and things go wrong, Each set back made Heidi’s tum that bit more sensitive.
Eventually we got past it by introducing food as treats for a week, then a very small amount into her bland diet increasing each week. I’ve been reduced to counting kibbles, weighing food and taking 6 weeks+ to fully transition but we got there.
It wasn’t as bad as it sounds. With slower progress I was able to monitor better and keep Heidi well most of the time.
Thought I’d mention it just incase so you can avoid my mistake.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Thought that I would update for anyone interested...
Still plodding along on a cooked white fish and potato meals...no blood or sickness, although he can still get a bit of excess drooling late at night it doesn't end up in vomiting.
Still getting diarrhea if I drop his Pro-Kolin, he only had one dose yesterday and it has shown today.

I have ordered him some Arden Grange Sensitive white fish and potato to see if we can introduce a balanced kibble.


So yeah...doing better but not quite 100% just yet.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks for the update. Good to hear Thai is still heading in the right direction.
May be give him a bit of food late at night before the drooling would normally start to prevent any set backs?
Sounds like his tum took quite a bashing but the slowly slowly approach is is working.
Have you ever used Bionic Biotics?
Heidi struggled for months on and off prokolin. Bionic Biotics did the trick


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I haven't tried Bionic Biotics but I was thinking of trying some protexin granules like this:


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> I haven't tried Bionic Biotics but I was thinking of trying some protexin granules like this:
> 
> I can't remember what they recommended but I contacted protexin and they suggested which of their products to try.
> Bionic Biotics worked and I never needed it. May be contact them.
> ...


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

So in terms of supplements, Pooch&Mutt Bionic Biotic or Nutravet Nutrabio are better quality than Protexin Pro-Fibre.

Everyone concentrates on probiotics for things like this, the live bacteria. And when comparing that angle, there's little difference between them. However the other two brands far outshine when you look at the prebiotic content. Protexin only contains FOS, Nutrabio additionally has MOS and yeast, while Bionic Biotic has all of the above and also beta glucans.

This is important because while the scientific evidence in terms of how whether probiotics work is questionable, there is strong scientific proof that prebiotics are effective. Probiotics supposedly add new helpful bacteria to the gut biome. Prebiotics definitely do support the gut bacteria already present, and help the gut to recover.

Therefore I echo @Mum2Heidi that Bionic Biotic is going to be your best bet in terms of intestinal support and value for money


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Well he has had 20g of Arden grange in his potato and fish tea and 20g again this morning...he was a bit unsettled last night but settled once I put him back on his bed..
The part that I am ridiculously excited about? Well, for the first time in well over a week I could actually pick up his poop this morning 

I'm going to be adding his food very slowly until we get up to a proper amount but hopefully (fingers crossed and all that jazz) everything will continue in the right direction 
I'm also going to be getting some Bionic Biotics to hopefully get him off the Pro-Kolin.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh glad to hear he's doing better! 
Keep it up Thai!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Oh glad to hear he's doing better!
> Keep it up Thai!


Just polished off some fish for lunch and now snoozing 
I hate how long this is taking to get him to some sort of normality...


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

That’s great news.
It’ll be worth taking the time in the long run.
Slowly slowly catchy monkey


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

I found Bionic Biotics amazing and when transitioning from the fish and mash I increased the kibble by 10 grams per meal everyday


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> Just polished off some fish for lunch and now snoozing
> I hate how long this is taking to get him to some sort of normality...


Having to be patient to go slowly for dog digestion stuff reminds me of the impatience and having to go slowly when doing small pet introductions


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Just polished off some fish for lunch and now snoozing
> I hate how long this is taking to get him to some sort of normality...


I really do feel for your both. I remember the frustration and anxiety with poor little Leafy and all the bags of expensive dog food I tried and usually ended up giving to the local rescues. It's a nightmare. I do hope he settles before too long.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

3 weeks in and he is doing well 
He was still getting "fussy" around 12am (which is a bugger when you have to be up at 5am) so I knew something wasn't quite right...switched to sweet potato instead of white due to the extra fibre in sweet potatoes added bionic biotics (he is on 3 tsp now which is the recommended amount for him) and he is up to 120gms of kibble a day.

He is now pretty much sleeping through the night (3 nights in a row now...woohoo) has regular output AND I can pick it up...he is still getting Pro-kolin at the moment but I am starting to work that down to see how he fairs on the pooch and mutts stuff.

I am actually umming and arrring about leaving his food as it is for a while so long as he doesn't lose weight...He is enjoying his meals, and I'm a bit worried about messing it all up to get him on kibble...when I'm not really a fan of kibble 
I shall speak to my vet and see what she thinks...


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> I am actually umming and arrring about leaving his food as it is for a while so long as he doesn't lose weight...He is enjoying his meals, and I'm a bit worried about messing it all up to get him on kibble...when I'm not really a fan of kibble


Oh I'd most certainly leave it as it is for a long long time yet

Speaking from my own experience with Muddy


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Great you’re having some very good progress.
I would also leave food as is. Especially as you’re reducing prokolin and it’s only been 3 nights.
Too many changes albeit slight and you won’t know where you are - not that I’ve been there of course


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> 3 weeks in and he is doing well
> He was still getting "fussy" around 12am (which is a bugger when you have to be up at 5am) so I knew something wasn't quite right...switched to sweet potato instead of white due to the extra fibre in sweet potatoes added bionic biotics (he is on 3 tsp now which is the recommended amount for him) and he is up to 120gms of kibble a day.
> 
> He is now pretty much sleeping through the night (3 nights in a row now...woohoo) has regular output AND I can pick it up...he is still getting Pro-kolin at the moment but I am starting to work that down to see how he fairs on the pooch and mutts stuff.
> ...


Leave well along IMO at least for now. Really good news though and I'm so pleased for you both.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

We were doing so, so well and then I go and *!!* things up!!!!

I started to give his last dose of Pro-Kolin a few hours later and that has given us very peaceful nights without any pacing, drooling or fartiness...
Without thinking I threw one of his fish skin treats out of his tub...seconds after he ate I thought crap...but then talked myself down because it's fish and he has been so good!
No sleep last night and he ended up being sick this morning...honestly I could punch myself right now :Bag


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh don't beat yourself up. I would have thought the same thing - it's fish!
Hopefully, just a minor blip and he'll continue on the mend. 
Poor you and Thai!


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> We were doing so, so well and then I go and *!!* things up!!!!
> 
> I started to give his last dose of Pro-Kolin a few hours later and that has given us very peaceful nights without any pacing, drooling or fartiness...
> Without thinking I threw one of his fish skin treats out of his tub...seconds after he ate I thought crap...but then talked myself down because it's fish and he has been so good!
> No sleep last night and he ended up being sick this morning...honestly I could punch myself right now :Bag


Oh no but don't blame yourself it's so easily done without thinking.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Well he has been doing so well on the Bionic Biotics...regular and nicely(?) formed and easy to pick up...no straining, no blood and he was clearly feeling much more comfortable and so excited to eat his meals.
Until today...so I've dropped his kibble for a couple of days (only getting 100g split between two meals anyway) so that his belly gets time to recover.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Well he has been doing so well on the Bionis Biotics...regular and nicely(?) formed and easy to pick up...no straining, no blood and he was clearly feeling much more comfortable and so excited to eat his meals.
> Until today...so I've dropped his kibble for a couple of days (only getting 100g split between two meals anyway) so that his belly gets time to recover.


Fingers crossed he soon settles down again. I beat myself up loads of times during the 11 years I had to deal with Leafy's stomach problems.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Par for the cause. 

We've all done it and lived to regret


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Last night was a much better night...a little restless around midnight but he settled after a few minutes. A few gurgles this morning but after a poo and some food it stopped.
I've ordered some Arden Grange white fish and potato wet food because it's clear that kibble isn't going to work yet (if at all)

I never had a dog with such serious gut issues, even after my JR was poisoned by a shitty neighbour... but then Thai is the first dog that I have fed kibble and not a mix of raw, wet and freshly cooked... coincidence? Probably, but not one that I am willing to ignore :Bag


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Sorry you’ve had a set back. V easily done. Sounds like you're back on track again.
Kibble is my least favourite food but it works well absorbing the excess when Heidi has a flare up.
Otherwise I feed it well soaked.
I’d love to go back to wet food or raw but soaked Eden and a smidgen of Butchers tinned tripe has worked well for so long I’d never forgive myself..........


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Well, we have had 2 weeks with no issues and his poop is looking very healthy.
Turns out that Bionic biotics is not for Thai...while it wasn't causing any issues as such his poop was still a bit loose and if I even thought about lowering the amount of Pro-kolin he had his poop would get worse.
2 days after dropping the BB his poop started to firm up properly which seems to be the way whenever I try any powdered pro and pre biotics (I've tried them all now, they all end up making him sloppy)

He is still getting cooked white fish and mashed sweet potato as the majority of his food but I have now started to add 60g of wet food a day without a single issue so far...I also changed from Pro-kolin to Logic gel.

No belly gurgles, no serious farts (he still farts of course but he doesn't look uncomfortable or run away from them) and he is eating his breakfast and dinner without needing to be hand fed 

I hope that I haven't jinxed things :Bag


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

Thats great news I also found the Logic paste worked best for Ronnie when he had his issues thank goodness [email protected] is only a 10 min walk from where I live


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## Torin. (May 18, 2014)

I've been thinking about Thai for the last few days. How are things with his digestion now, @StormyThai ?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Torin. said:


> I've been thinking about Thai for the last few days. How are things with his digestion now, @StormyThai ?


Thanks for asking 
Apart from a little blip a few days ago because I stupidly let him have a hard boiled egg he is doing pretty well.
He lost a huge amount of weight (he is down to 33kg at the mo ) but he is steadily gaining so while I am keeping a close eye on his weight, I'm not overly concerned yet...if he stops gaining then I'll book him in for more tests.
Food wise he is still getting cooked white fish and sweet potato for his dinner but he is up to 400g of Ardent grange wet food and 50g of the same kibble (split between breakfast and lunch) and he gets dried sprats and white fish jerky as treats which he really enjoys and he seems to be doing quite well on it so far, I want to try to get the kibble up to about 200g with 400g of wet food and keep his fish dinner the same. And then when I am happier with his weight I will find the right amount to maintain.
He also still gets daily logic firm, but unless he has a blip he only gets around half of the recommend amount which seems to keep him regular. I'm reluctant to stop the logic firm tbh and my vet agrees to keep him on it unless he starts to firm up too much.

Overall he is looking (apart from his weight) and feeling pretty good for an old boy


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Just a quick update for anyone interested.
Things are ticking along pretty well...he is up to 400g of wet food and 100g of kibble (split between breakfast and lunch) and then 4 cod fillets with sweet potato mash for dinner and getting daily Logic firm (half the recommended daily dose).

He is getting a lot of food and I still have to be very careful about introducing anything which is why we have stuck with the fish and mash. However, he is still under weight and doesn't seem to be putting any thing on at all...he isn't losing weight at least but after a month I would expect to see some improvement so my guess is that the dog food isn't doing as well as I had hoped.
I'm going to have a chat with my vet to see what she says but it may be time to start looking at hydrolysed food, but most of them contain a large percentage of poultry so really not sure what to do!

He is perfectly happy in himself, still bouncy, still wanting to play and train and still loving his walks...just a bit too skinny for my liking, and I like my dogs lean!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> Just a quick update for anyone interested.
> Things are ticking along pretty well...he is up to 400g of wet food and 100g of kibble (split between breakfast and lunch) and then 4 cod fillets with sweet potato mash for dinner and getting daily Logic firm (half the recommended daily dose).
> 
> He is getting a lot of food and I still have to be very careful about introducing anything which is why we have stuck with the fish and mash. However, he is still under weight and doesn't seem to be putting any thing on at all...he isn't losing weight at least but after a month I would expect to see some improvement so my guess is that the dog food isn't doing as well as I had hoped.
> ...


Do you think he just needs more food? If he's fine on the regular kibble and wet, I don't know that I'd immediately think he needs hydrolyzed food. He may just need more food. Do you think he could tolerate some kibble with his fish and mash in the evenings?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Just a quick update for anyone interested.
> Things are ticking along pretty well...he is up to 400g of wet food and 100g of kibble (split between breakfast and lunch) and then 4 cod fillets with sweet potato mash for dinner and getting daily Logic firm (half the recommended daily dose).
> 
> He is getting a lot of food and I still have to be very careful about introducing anything which is why we have stuck with the fish and mash. However, he is still under weight and doesn't seem to be putting any thing on at all...he isn't losing weight at least but after a month I would expect to see some improvement so my guess is that the dog food isn't doing as well as I had hoped.
> ...


Well it sounds positive apart from the fact he isn't gaining weight. Personally I'd be very, very careful about changing his food. As to whether you could introduce an addition to try and improve weight gain I really don't know.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Do you think he just needs more food? If he's fine on the regular kibble and wet, I don't know that I'd immediately think he needs hydrolyzed food. He may just need more food. Do you think he could tolerate some kibble with his fish and mash in the evenings?


I hear you, and it's exactly what I was starting to do but he is still getting the bad gas and occasional runny poop which leads to a bit of blood which started after I upped his kibble to 100g. 
I don't know if I am over thinking this too much but surely if I have to keep him on Logic firm then maybe he isn't doing as well on the kibble as I'd hoped? Should I just drop the kibble and up his wet food?

I think because I spotted a bit of blood in his poop this morning I'm doubting everything


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I put my big girl pants on and added another 100g of wet food to his fish and potato dinner. I'll keep the kibble as is for the moment but try to gradually increase it slowly.
If the blood continues (beyond the spot in this mornings) or gets worse then I'll have to rethink things.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> I hear you, and it's exactly what I was starting to do but he is still getting the bad gas and occasional runny poop which leads to a bit of blood which started after I upped his kibble to 100g.
> I don't know if I am over thinking this too much but surely if I have to keep him on Logic firm then maybe he isn't doing as well on the kibble as I'd hoped? Should I just drop the kibble and up his wet food?
> 
> I think because I spotted a bit of blood in his poop this morning I'm doubting everything


Yes I would be doubting everything if I was in your shoes too. Looks as if you need a conversation with your vet. Did you manage to speak to Ness Bird at Arden Grange and get her opinion?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Twiggy said:


> Yes I would be doubting everything if I was in your shoes too. Looks as if you need a conversation with your vet. Did you manage to speak to Ness Bird at Arden Grange and get her opinion?


I'd actually forgotten to contact Ness, I will get on with that tomorrow. Thanks for the reminder


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> However, he is still under weight and doesn't seem to be putting any thing on at all...he isn't losing weight at least but after a month I would expect to see some improvement


A month is no time at all. Stick with what you know works...........do not change anything unless things take a turn for the worse


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Adapting to a change of food can take up to 6 weeks
His tum was very poorly so has to recover before it can begin the process. Sounds like the logic is supporting him through it. I’d definitely give it longer, especially while its going well. When he starts processing food properly weight will come. If anything I’d spread the amount over another meal rather than changing or increasing. Smaller amounts will be less burden on his tum and aid absorption.
You’re doing really well.


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

I hope Thai tolerated the increase in his food
Not all hydrolysed protein food has Poultry in them,my vet suggested Purina HA diet for Ronnie she said she saw better results with Purina than any of the other hydrolysed diets,I didn't hold out much hope with this food as it has maize in it,but after a few days on this food he was a lot happier and his stools are always firm
With his last bad bout he lost 4kilo's he has been on this food around 6 weeks now and has gained just over a kilo
The vet also suggested that Ronnie should be fed 4x daily
I buy Ronnies dry Purina from Amazon £49.95 for 11kilo's and his wet from My Family Vets 12 x 400g £34.00


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

How's it going?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

rona said:


> How's it going?


Pretty well tbh. Still a little runny at the end of his morning poop but nothing to worry about. He tolerated the 100g increase of the wet really well so he now gets 500g of wet, 100g of dry and his fish and potato supper spread across 3 meals so I am hoping for some weight gain at our next weigh in ☺

Thanks for asking


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Good news 

I was a bit worried there for you both after your last reports


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

rona said:


> Good news
> 
> I was a bit worried there for you both after your last reports


I think the blood in his poop threw me through a loop, I was worried that's for sure.
Thankfully it was just a spot and there hasn't been anything since so I have stopped worrying so much


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

niamh123 said:


> I hope Thai tolerated the increase in his food
> Not all hydrolysed protein food has Poultry in them,my vet suggested Purina HA diet for Ronnie she said she saw better results with Purina than any of the other hydrolysed diets,I didn't hold out much hope with this food as it has maize in it,but after a few days on this food he was a lot happier and his stools are always firm
> With his last bad bout he lost 4kilo's he has been on this food around 6 weeks now and has gained just over a kilo
> The vet also suggested that Ronnie should be fed 4x daily
> I buy Ronnies dry Purina from Amazon £49.95 for 11kilo's and his wet from My Family Vets 12 x 400g £34.00


One of my collies ended up on Purina HA. The single source protein is soya. Awful stuff but it worked for her.


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

Yes it is awful stuff, reminds me of chick peas but much lighter but the results it has had on Ronnie is amazing


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Things are still ticking along nicely but weight gain is painfully slow and any attempt to up his food causes him to turn his nose up and we had a bad night (just needed belly rubs from mum) so I am seriously considering having a look at vet diets like Purina HA or similar...something isn't 100% right and I need to listen to my gut!


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> Things are still ticking along nicely but weight gain is painfully slow and any attempt to up his food causes him to turn his nose up and we had a bad night (just needed belly rubs from mum) so I am seriously considering having a look at vet diets like Purina HA or similar...something isn't 100% right and I need to listen to my gut!


As I have always said, regardless whether we like the ingredients list, prescription diets have their place. They help many.

For Thai, I would give it a go, and some pet foods do include it in insurance, obviously if recommended by a vet. You could check with them.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Things are still ticking along nicely but weight gain is painfully slow and any attempt to up his food causes him to turn his nose up and we had a bad night (just needed belly rubs from mum) so I am seriously considering having a look at vet diets like Purina HA or similar...something isn't 100% right and I need to listen to my gut!


Purina HA is what my Leafy eventually ended up on. Like you I resisted as long as I could. It's awful stuff (single source protein is soya) and from what I read it seems to contain sawdust but I have to admit it worked for her.


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

I can definately vouch for Purina HA in a matter of days Ronnie was transitioned onto it, and I have never looked back


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Honestly, I’d say go with whatever works for Thai


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Ditto everyone else. Give it a go!
Listen to your gut (and Thai’s).
I was lucky. Heidi settled on food I’m not too dissatisfied with. If I had to feed sawdust and feathers
to have her this healthy and happy, I would in a heart beat.


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

Another reason I went with the Purina is that Ronnie didn't do well on rice or poultry and the Purina was the only food without these ingredients


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Today I just want to cry!
Started to introduce the vet diet kibble yesterday, the only one that doesn't contain any poultry.
Only a tiny amount...he had a very unsettled night and after a solid poop at around 4am it is now just liquid :Arghh:Arghh:Arghh

I'm kinda hoping that it was whatever he managed to snarfle on our evening walk...but it's not looking good 
Ardent grange made him a bit farty but he never reacted this badly to it...I'm kind of at a loss now, he is dreadfully under weight and nothing I do is changing that...

I'm going to request a phonecall from my vet to see what she suggests.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Today I just want to cry!
> Started to introduce the vet diet kibble yesterday, the only one that doesn't contain any poultry.
> Only a tiny amount...he had a very unsettled night and after a solid poop at around 4am it is now just liquid :Arghh:Arghh:Arghh
> 
> ...


Oh no..... I'm so very sorry and hope your vet can offer some advice.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh I'm so sorry 
Poor Thai, poor you! I really hope you can get this sorted. 
Is he on any antacid?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

oh no. It must be something in the weather. Candy has been good for ages, this morning she is almost liquid and passing a lot of mucus. I kind of give up, work through each episode and breathe a sigh of relief when she is back to normal. I had about a year of dreadful mucus bloodstained poos so I can cope with short episodes now. Typically we are moving house in the next few days and will have carpets so I am not happy!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

@O2.0 yeah he is on Omeprazole and has been for about 6 months, he also has daily Logic firm which solved the belly gurgling.


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

How much of the new food did you give, Thai when I started Ronnie they advised me to feed him 4 x daily and to give the logic paste twice a day.I started Ronnie on 5g per day for 3days and then started increasing in 5g increments


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I started him on 5g and he already gets Logic gel twice a day.
He has 3 meals a day, he won't eat a forth meal...just turns his nose up at it.

I'm going to cut it for now until he firms up again and see what my vet says, we may try again (as I said this could be from whatever it was that he managed to grab on our evening walk), we may not...but I think that I am going to muzzle on my walks now to stop any other issues arising...now things have opened up properly our grass verges are just rubbish tips


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Hydrolysed officially should work however these dogs don't read the the science books.

My only other suggestion would be a limited ingredient food. So you would be talking burns or laughing dog.

Then I would suggest using panacur wormer just incase it's ibd caused by something like giardia that hasn't been picked up on. I only say this because Tess my old staff started with colitis had very similar symptoms and it was let's work with panacur just incase things have been mixed,that and the B12 vaccine really helped.

Only problem is panacur protocol for giardia I presume is 2 weeks in between and that's absolutely not good for you or Thai.

Fingers crossed the vet looks at him with a fresh set of eyes and helps.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Gardia was tested for with the initial tests when he had his first bum explosion, sickness and the rest and nothing was picked up.
But I might mention it again when I speak with my vet, it wasn't our usual vet or practice that saw Thai when he first went down with this, so I'm kinda hoping that she will have some magical idea that the other vets didn't think of.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Gardia was tested for with the initial tests when he had his first bum explosion, sickness and the rest and nothing was picked up.
> But I might mention it again when I speak with my vet, it wasn't our usual vet or practice that saw Thai when he first went down with this, so I'm kinda hoping that she will have some magical idea that the other vets didn't think of.


Was Thai also tested initially for Campylobactor as that can keep reoccurring and needs a long course of ABs?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Twiggy said:


> Was Thai also tested initially for Campylobactor as that can keep reoccurring and needs a long course of ABs?


Yes he was. When he first went in I wanted them to test for anything relevant so that we knew what we were fighting and not just throwing stuff at him in the hope that it would work.
But thank you for reminding me, that is something else I can bring up to the vet to see if it is worth testing for again.

Well Thai has had a little bit of fish and mash for his tea, let that settle and then we went for a short walk...still liquid  He has had his evening dose of Logic firm and is now sleeping.
Hayley is back in tomorrow so hoping she can get us back on track - regretting trying this kibble now though


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

@StormyThai don't beat yourself up. We only think it's food and it's always emotive because once you get your dog,genetics are set in place so to say for health. So what can we do to keep our dog healthy,we are swayed by marketing from dog food companies and what we see or find out by asking others. Even if that other is a dog nutritionist.

As a side noteTess was tested twice for giardia with 3 day stool samples and nothing. I swear that the panacur dosing for giardia worked.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Yes he was. When he first went in I wanted them to test for anything relevant so that we knew what we were fighting and not just throwing stuff at him in the hope that it would work.
> But thank you for reminding me, that is something else I can bring up to the vet to see if it is worth testing for again.
> 
> Well Thai has had a little bit of fish and mash for his tea, let that settle and then we went for a short walk...still liquid  He has had his evening dose of Logic firm and is now sleeping.
> Hayley is back in tomorrow so hoping she can get us back on track - regretting trying this kibble now though


I do feel for you and remember so well how anxious I used to get with Leafy trying different (and mostly very expensive foods). Don't beat yourself up though. You are doing your very best for Thai and it is an absolute nightmare.


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

Ron is a scavenger so is muzzled whenever he is out of the house.Ronnie has a bit of an upset tum at the moment ,the day before yesterday while he was off lead he managed to quish a pile of dog poo with his muzzle and eat what was stuck on the muzzle


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

niamh123 said:


> Ron is a scavenger so is muzzled whenever he is out of the house.Ronnie has a bit of an upset tum at the moment ,the day before yesterday while he was off lead he managed to quish a pile of dog poo with his muzzle and eat what was stuck on the muzzle


Sorry to hear that Ron is having a bad day 

Just off the phone from the vets so thought that I would update:
He had a settled night last night after his supper, slept right through until I woke up. A big poo on our walk but I could pick it up, not perfect but much better than yesterday.
Vet then called...we have decided to try a 2 week course of an antibiotic that helps to calm down inflammation in the guts...apparently it is a pretty crap antibiotic but for this it works well...so the plan is to give him a two week course (if his guts will accept it of course) to see if we can get him eating more of what he can tolerate rather than trying new things and then go from there.
I can't remember the name of the drug off hand but I will update as soon as I know


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

StormyThai said:


> Sorry to hear that Ron is having a bad day
> 
> Just off the phone from the vets so thought that I would update:
> He had a settled night last night after his supper, slept right through until I woke up. A big poo on our walk but I could pick it up, not perfect but much better than yesterday.
> ...


Fingers firmly crossed for you and Thai. The AB wasn't Euryth


StormyThai said:


> Sorry to hear that Ron is having a bad day
> 
> Just off the phone from the vets so thought that I would update:
> He had a settled night last night after his supper, slept right through until I woke up. A big poo on our walk but I could pick it up, not perfect but much better than yesterday.
> ...


Fingers firmly crossed for you and Thai.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Twiggy said:


> The AB wasn't Euryth


Maybe, I can't quite remember which one was mentioned. I'm terrible on the phone 

Well he has had some lunch, ate it all up and is now snoozing again so I think that it is safe to say that it was the kibble that set him off.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> Maybe, I can't quite remember which one was mentioned. I'm terrible on the phone
> 
> Well he has had some lunch, ate it all up and is now snoozing again so I think that it is safe to say that it was the kibble that set him off.


At least you know that it was the new kibble - and won't be trying that again! What a pain though as it wasn't much but still had a big reaction.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Sarah H said:


> What a pain though as it wasn't much but still had a big reaction.


You're not wrong...I now have 11.99500 kg of expensive horrible kibble just sitting there...oh well, at least it wasn't a big 20kg bag


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I’m so sorry. It’s such a worry.
Everything crossed he’s on the mend now.

I introduce new food as treats first. Starting just a couple of kibbles a day. I can tell if it’s going to work without causing major set backs. I know 5g isn’t a lot but it can be to a very delicate tum. People have given Heidi a small treat on a walk without asking, made her ill before we even got home.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> You're not wrong...I now have 11.99500 kg of expensive horrible kibble just sitting there...oh well, at least it wasn't a big 20kg bag


Bugger! Stick it on FB Marketplace? Or if you got it from [email protected] they will refund you for an open bag.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Sarah H said:


> Or if you got it from [email protected] they will refund you for an open bag.


It came from Amazon so I doubt it.
I never thought of FB marketplace so I might stick it on there...before now I have just given the bag to a client, being a dog trainer can have it's advantages with regards to getting rid of food that doesn't work for us 

Fish dinner went down well (bowl licked clean) so we shall see what his output is when we go out in a sec...he is a bit farty, but that is to be expected after yesterday.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

So today we went to the vets to pick up meds and weigh him...he has lost again... not much but he is now down to 33kg exactly.
The antibiotics that he has been prescribed is Oxycare so he starts them today for 2 weeks.

He is eating 450g of wet food, 1 or 2 raw fish fillets and then mashed sweet potato (around 4 or 5) and a further 4 or 5 cooked fish fillets.
I have now put him up to 550g of wet food in the hope that I can get a couple of kilo's gain by next weigh in time!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Oh he's down a good bit then 

Bates lost muscle mass as he aged. In his prime he was a solid 80-85 pounds, as he got older though he stayed more in the 75 range, not skinny, he just didn't have as much muscle anymore. I think part of it is normal aging (I'd rather an old dog be a little thin than overweight) but also with Bates some of it was muscle atrophy in his rear end.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> Oh he's down a good bit then
> 
> Bates lost muscle mass as he aged. In his prime he was a solid 80-85 pounds, as he got older though he stayed more in the 75 range, not skinny, he just didn't have as much muscle anymore. I think part of it is normal aging (I'd rather an old dog be a little thin than overweight) but also with Bates some of it was muscle atrophy in his rear end.


Yeah, he has a weird mixed coat that is fluffier than it looks, especially in winter so to the eye he doesn't look too bad apart from muscle atrophy in his rear end (which as you said is to be expected due to aging)...but get your hands on him and you can feel his spine easily and he has no coverage over his ribs either - overall he has lost 9kg since the start of this  I'd be happy if I could get him back up to around 35/36kg so that he is still lean.

His output is fairly good at the moment so hopefully these antibiotics will sort out any inflammation in his gut so that he can start to gain something.


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm so sorry he is still having problems - I can't remember/see what kibble you have tried him on, but I really recommend a proper HA hydrolysed protein food - if it is hydrolysed it shouldn't matter what the original protein source was and it is the only thing that has helped the dimwit (though it did seem to make his diarrhoea worse for the first few days but then he settled down).
Have you discussed a specialist referral with your vet? It might be something to consider - we went to the Cambridge vet school and they were brilliant and very thorough.

I do feel your pain. I took the dimwit away for what was supposed to be a fortnight in Norfolk but we managed three days before we had to come home because I booked a different holiday cottage to the one we usually stay in and it stressed him out so much that he had a massive flare-up. We have been back to the vets a few times and he is slowly on the mend but is still needing buscopan and omeprazole and if he goes too long without being fed he gets really gurgly and starts having gut spasms again 
The worst thing is that bonfire night/week/month is rapidly approaching which will stress him out more...


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Thai has now been on the antibiotics for just over a week now and I can see some improvements 
He is now able to tolerate 4 meals a day, and not just tolerate, he actually gets excited for his meals now and his energy levels have improved which is great to see.

At the moment he is getting 550g of wet food and a raw cod fillet split between breakfast and second breakfast, if he is looking hungry he gets another fish fillet for lunch and then for dinner and supper he gets 5 large sweet potatoes and around 5 fish fillets split between the two meals.
I've not had to hand feed or encourage him to eat any of his meals and he even goes back to his bowl two or three times just to check that he has cleaned it all up properly...which is awesome!

I "might" try to introduce the HA kibble, but after his last reaction I am reluctant, especially as he seems to be doing so well at the moment.


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

As he is doing so well I would be inclined to keep him on the food he is on at the moment even though it must be costing you a fortune


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Just off the phone to the vet...
The Oxycare seems to be doing it's job. Still eating well, his output is good, his energy levels have increased AND his mischievous side is back 
So he is getting another months course and then we will discuss either tapering them off or keeping him on them indefinitely.

When I go and pick up his prescription I will be getting him on the scales to see if he is actually gaining, but at this point so long as he isn't losing still it's a win!


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

So glad the ABs are working. He may need to be on them indefinitely poor guy!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

O2.0 said:


> He may need to be on them indefinitely poor guy!


I've pretty much made up my mind that these are here to stay. At his age and considering how long this has been going on now I'm ok with that, especially if he starts to actually gain weight...they must be doing something right because I have been able to add sprats to his diet without fallout 

Oh @Katalyst We spoke about mirtazapine but apparently it has a habit of masking underlying issues so it's best used when anorexia is an issue so they just need to eat. Because I need to notice any of the initial signs to stop a full blown poosplosion happening we decided not to go down that route yet.
But again, thank you for mentioning it


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

That’s brilliant news. I’m made up for you both.


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

Great news I hope Thai continues to improve


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Really hope you’ve found a long term solution and he stays happier in his tum. 

And you can ease up on the worrying … it must be very stressful for you too.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Dimwit said:


> I'm so sorry he is still having problems - I can't remember/see what kibble you have tried him on, but I really recommend a proper HA hydrolysed protein food - if it is hydrolysed it shouldn't matter what the original protein source was and it is the only thing that has helped the dimwit (though it did seem to make his diarrhoea worse for the first few days but then he settled down).
> Have you discussed a specialist referral with your vet? It might be something to consider - we went to the Cambridge vet school and they were brilliant and very thorough.
> 
> I do feel your pain. I took the dimwit away for what was supposed to be a fortnight in Norfolk but we managed three days before we had to come home because I booked a different holiday cottage to the one we usually stay in and it stressed him out so much that he had a massive flare-up. We have been back to the vets a few times and he is slowly on the mend but is still needing buscopan and omeprazole and if he goes too long without being fed he gets really gurgly and starts having gut spasms again
> The worst thing is that bonfire night/week/month is rapidly approaching which will stress him out more...


Interesting you say that loki seems to have flare ups on holiday the first day and oddly when my sister visits although he's always happy to see her. His routine is so important.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

So after 2 weeks of these awful antibiotics (as in they are pretty rubbish at being an antibiotic) and Thai has not only stopped losing weight he has actually put on 200g!
Hopefully we have finally cracked this and he will continue to put on weight until he is back to his ideal...I've umm'd and arrrr'd over trying the kibble again and have now decided to just keep him on wet now that it is working for him.
Oh and poops are perfect these days too, so it looks like he will be on these things indefinitely but if it's working I don't care....so chuffed


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## edinoodle (Oct 18, 2019)

So glad Thai is doing well and has put on weight! Hope the weight gain continues!


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> So after 2 weeks of these awful antibiotics (as in they are pretty rubbish at being an antibiotic) and Thai has not only stopped losing weight he has actually put on 200g!
> Hopefully we have finally cracked this and he will continue to put on weight until he is back to his ideal...I've umm'd and arrrr'd over trying the kibble again and have now decided to just keep him on wet now that it is working for him.
> Oh and poops are perfect these days too, so it looks like he will be on these things indefinitely but if it's working I don't care....so chuffed


Brill


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

StormyThai said:


> So after 2 weeks of these awful antibiotics (as in they are pretty rubbish at being an antibiotic) and Thai has not only stopped losing weight he has actually put on 200g!
> Hopefully we have finally cracked this and he will continue to put on weight until he is back to his ideal...I've umm'd and arrrr'd over trying the kibble again and have now decided to just keep him on wet now that it is working for him.
> Oh and poops are perfect these days too, so it looks like he will be on these things indefinitely but if it's working I don't care....so chuffed


Great news!!


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I know the feelings you are having 

It seems like a miracle when you actually get something that works. As I've always advocated on here, doesn't matter what works, crap food, stinking meds, anything, just stick with it........could save your dog's life 

Glad you have found yours


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## Teddy-dog (Nov 2, 2017)

Fab news!!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

O2.0 said:


> So glad the ABs are working. He may need to be on them indefinitely poor guy!


I had my pair on them with magical results but the vet said they could not keep having them.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Blitz said:


> I had my pair on them with magical results but the vet said they could not keep having them.


Where they the same ones that Thai is getting? Oxycare?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

That's brilliant news and long may it continue.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> Where they the same ones that Thai is getting? Oxycare?


I cant remember!


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Blitz said:


> I cant remember!


I was just wondering because I thought that antibiotics long term was a bad idea, but apparently these Oxycare are such a rubbish antibiotic that it isn't an issue because it works well at reducing any inflammation in the gut.
If you're still having issues it might be worth a mention?


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## niamh123 (Nov 4, 2018)

Great news I am so pleased for you and Thai


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> I was just wondering because I thought that antibiotics long term was a bad idea, but apparently these Oxycare are such a rubbish antibiotic that it isn't an issue because it works well at reducing any inflammation in the gut.
> If you're still having issues it might be worth a mention?


That is interesting. They are oxytetracycline which is a really good broad spectrum antibiotic and when I was working for a vet they were used a lot. I see they are used mainly for respiratory bacterial infections, could not see a mention of gut. I think my dogs were on something very specific to gut so would not have been that.


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

I think oxytetracycline is used long-term to treat small intestine bacterial overgrowth. @StormyThai I am glad Thai is doing better. The dimwit was back at the vet school and current approach is to try him on a course of panacur and then if that doesn't work I have to decide between taking him back in for gut biopsies or going in blind and trialling antibiotics or steroids.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Thank you @Dimwit 
I hope that you find something that works for him, sorry to hear that he is still struggling


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> Thank you @Dimwit
> I hope that you find something that works for him, sorry to hear that he is still struggling


Thank you. I think most people (outside of PF) think I'm mad for taking him to a specialist/spending so much money on him. If it was just diarrhoea I wouldn't be so neurotic, but when I can see the gut spasms and he can't eat and is looking at me and whining for help then I will do everything I can to help him.


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