# Breeding/Showing/Pet Price (BSH)



## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Hello, 

I am considering importing a stud from the UK (waiting list is usually a year or longer and we hope to have a house by then) and am trying to gather all the information I can find. 

Could someone give me an idea of what the kitten price is for a breeding boy (and out of curiosity the pet price as well as showing price)? Also, what catteries have amazing British Shorthairs? The prefixes I've heard off include : Hunmar, Coppins, Miletree, Positively, Cattractive, Willowood, Taurine and Witchwoods. 

I am also torn between a blue and a lilac boy. Most of the prefixes I mentioned above do not breed lilacs. Would anyone know of an amazing cattery which has lovely lilacs? 

Thank you in advance!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I know a good breeder who often sends cats to germany etc.She may have what you are looking for.

Id say a decent boy your looking at paying around £500/£550 mark.

Just pm me if you would like her details i have one of her cat hes amazing heres a pic


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Just out of curiosity, it seems as if most BSH catteries don't test for HCM. Just checking if this is normal?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I think its more usual that the raggies and ori's have that test.I know the bsh are expected to have the PKD though.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Yeah, here in NL, HCM tests for British Shorthairs are very much expected these days. Unfortunately, HCM for BSH is late onset so the cats have fathered/mothered many kittens by then! It's just scary because it is such a big thing but I guess the only thing which can be done is to talk to the breeders and try to find out the history of the parents, grandparents and so forth (mostly how long they lived!)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I know a lot more about what Oriental and Siamese breeders are doing, and they don't usually charge more for kittens with neuter show potential. A breeding queen might cost more, a stud certainly will. But do think about what happens if you buy a male kitten (hence unproven) and he turns out to be one of the few that can't get a female pregnant.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> A breeding queen might cost more, a stud certainly will. But do think about what happens if you buy a male kitten (hence unproven) and he turns out to be one of the few that can't get a female pregnant.


Here girls are 2-2.5 times pet price and boys 3 times in most breeds

All my breeding cats have fertility guaranteed in their contracts, definitely something to enquire about.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Thank you for your replies.

Would anyone know what the normal pet price is for British Shorthairs by established catteries (UK)?


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

pipje said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> Would anyone know what the normal pet price is for British Shorthairs by established catteries (UK)?


Probably around £350 for a pet kitten.
Why do you ask? I thought you wanted a stud boy? If thats the case you will be paying more.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Well, if a stud is 2-3 times the pet price, it's helpful to know what the pet price is!


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

pipje said:


> Well, if a stud is 2-3 times the pet price, it's helpful to know what the pet price is!


Yes 2-3 times more if you are buying from Australia. (ie like Spottycats)
As We Love BSH's has said, here you would be looking at around £500 - £550. Good look in your search.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Have you thought about coming over to one of the really big shows, or to the main breed show? Unfortunately it's quite a few months until the next Surpreme, if you are after a GCCF-registered cat.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

That's a possibility, true. However, it can take a year before a suitable stud can be found (ie. born) and I'd really prefer to only have to go to the UK once. That said, obviously when it comes to importing, you don't just want an average to good boy, you want a really excellent fellow. It is possible to get excellent boys here as well (since BSH is the most popular breed in NL too) but I'd like some new blood lines plus some of the UK catteries I've checked out, have really really crispy and short fur. 

I would like an established cattery just to decrease the risk. I can't imagine an old established name like Coppins (for eg.) would import a stud who doesn't quite fit the breed standard (for eg.).


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> I think its more usual that the raggies and ori's have that test.I know the bsh are expected to have the PKD though.


i thought coonies had hcm tests too or at least they did a few years ago as it was quite prominent in the breed



jo-pop said:


> Probably around £350 for a pet kitten.
> Why do you ask? I thought you wanted a stud boy? If thats the case you will be paying more.


thats cheap for a pet bsh kitten compared to coonies wegies or raggies, they would be £400-£450


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I have no idea about the coonies you probably know more


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jenny armour said:


> i thought coonies had hcm tests too or at least they did a few years ago as it was quite prominent in the breed
> 
> *
> 
> thats cheap for a pet bsh kitten compared to coonies wegies or raggies, they would be £400-£450*




You think £350 is cheap my last pet price litter went at £250.colourpoints


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

jenny armour said:


> i thought coonies had hcm tests too or at least they did a few years ago as it was quite prominent in the breed


All the Coon breeders I know get their cats scanned every 12-24 months.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

kelzcats said:


> <snip>
> My aim over the next few years is to breed out the lilacs,crerams and c/p's from the blue lines to try and breed mainly solid blue lines for a better coat build and eye colour.


Gene testing should make that a lot easier than it would have been 10-15 years ago.


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

Thomas (my CP) was £350. Bought as a pet but I decide to try showing. Made GCCF premier in 3 shows and TICA champion in a day! So yes, I think I got a bargain. The judges comments have been wonderful too so im thrilled.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> [/B]
> 
> You think £350 is cheap my last pet price litter went at £250.colourpoints


well maybe its different for colourpoints, but me and some friends bought my late friend a bsh blue cream in 1999 for her birthday/christmas pressy and she cost us £250 then



spotty cats said:


> All the Coon breeders I know get their cats scanned every 12-24 months.


i know there was a scare about 3 years ago where some coonies were carrying the hcm and i know that alot of breeders now will test for it.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jenny armour said:


> *well maybe its different for colourpoints, but me and some friends bought my late friend a bsh blue cream in 1999 for her birthday/christmas pressy and she cost us £250 then*
> 
> I have no idea what was up last summer my friend had a hard time selling the cp's too.As compared to the year before the cp's were selling for £400,swings and roundabouts.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> I know a good breeder who often sends cats to germany etc.She may have what you are looking for.
> 
> Id say a decent boy your looking at paying around £500/£550 mark.
> 
> ...


he looks like my Arthure apart from the blue eyes


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Sort of - but your cat is a blue colourpoint & white hence the blue eyes, this one is a blue & white.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> Sort of - but your cat is a blue colourpoint & white hence the blue eyes, this one is a blue & white.


I think your confused OS it was lucy who quoted me.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Lucy1012 said:


> he looks like my Arthure apart from the blue eyes


Hes great lucy whos he from?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> I think your confused OS it was lucy who quoted me.


OK, someone has a blue bicolour and someone else has a blue-point bicolour!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

OrientalSlave said:


> OK, someone has a blue bicolour and someone else has a blue-point bicolour!


:lol: yes OS i have the bi point


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

never heard of a bsh bicolour colourpoint i thought it was a blue bicolour or a blue colourpoint. now raggies, there is a blue bi colour colourpoint, not bsh.
also some breeders are very fussy about where their potential studs go.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> I think its more usual that the raggies and ori's have that test.I know the bsh are expected to have the PKD though.


such a shame that bsh are tested for pkd as its probably because they have been outcrossed with persians who also are subject to pkd. then they are bred to get the exotic so it goes round and round. if things were only left as they were, but that will never happen


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jenny armour said:


> never heard of a bsh bicolour colourpoint *i thought it was a blue bicolour* or a blue colourpoint. now raggies, there is a blue bi colour colourpoint, not bsh.
> also some breeders are very fussy about where their potential studs go.


They call the bsh a blue bi colourpoint or blue colourpoint and white.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

jenny armour said:


> such a shame that bsh are tested for pkd as its probably because they have been outcrossed with persians who also are subject to pkd. then they are bred to get the exotic so it goes round and round. if things were only left as they were, but that will never happen


We are well on the way to eliminating PKD as the gene test is cheap and accurate unlike the older ultrasound screening, and many susceptible breeds now require testing.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

I would be much more worried about HCM tbh. It seems to be more prevalent and harder to pinpoint than PKD. HCM is late onset for BSH and most breeders don't test anymore (IF at all, from my research it seems like breeders in UK do not test) once the cat is no longer bred with. 

If you look on HCM Foundation (available in English but mostly cats in The Netherlands), cats tend to test positive between the ages of 1.5-8 years and that's only the cats which are in the system (it's voluntary so as you can imagine, most breeders who had positive (which is bad) results are unlikely to post them online!).


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> They call the bsh a blue bi colourpoint or blue colourpoint and white.


and i assume the only difference is the eye colour or do they have a lighter colour body like colourpoints (and blue bi raggies). have you got a picture? 
i must admit i have never heard or seen one


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

pipje said:


> I would be much more worried about HCM tbh. It seems to be more prevalent and harder to pinpoint than PKD. HCM is late onset for BSH and most breeders don't test anymore (IF at all, from my research it seems like breeders in UK do not test) once the cat is no longer bred with.
> 
> If you look on HCM Foundation (available in English but mostly cats in The Netherlands), cats tend to test positive between the ages of 1.5-8 years and that's only the cats which are in the system (it's voluntary so as you can imagine, most breeders who had negative results are unlikely to post them online!).


so in other words if breeders didnt outcross in the first place then there is less likelihood of hcm occurring? or is it just that some breeders think oh lets breed this breed with another breed without looking into what disease they could be putting into their lines. i know reputable breeders would be making sure this doesnt happen. (not very good at expressing myself if you see what i mean).
as you can probably tell i am a believer in leaving breeds the way they are and not outcrossing to get ie different colours.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jenny armour said:


> and i assume the only difference is the eye colour or do they have a lighter colour body like colourpoints (and blue bi raggies). have you got a picture?
> i must admit i have never heard or seen one


Genetically they are different,yes the eyes are the obvious difference the bi colourpoint will have blue eyes and the bicolour will have say orange eyes.

The hair colour is different too the bi colours hair will look a deeper colour compared to a bi colourpoint.

Here is a couple of pics of my two bi colourpoints.

Lilac tortie bi colourpoint 







Same cat







blue bi colourpoint.


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

jenny armour said:


> so in other words if breeders didnt outcross in the first place then there is less likelihood of hcm occurring? or is it just that some breeders think oh lets breed this breed with another breed without looking into what disease they could be putting into their lines. i know reputable breeders would be making sure this doesnt happen. (not very good at expressing myself if you see what i mean).
> as you can probably tell i am a believer in leaving breeds the way they are and not outcrossing to get ie different colours.


I am not an expert but as far as I know, HCM in British Shorthairs is not because of outcrosses. I think it's just one of those diseases which is getting more and more attention but is less dramatic (for BSHs) because if a cat dies at the age of 10, it's less tragic and dramatic than a cat which dies at the age of 1. I mean, who sends a cat who dies at 8 or 12 years old for an autopsy? Most people would just say "too bad, it's a little early but not too unusual".


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Genetically they are different,yes the eyes are the obvious difference the bi colourpoint will have blue eyes and the bicolour will have say orange eyes.
> 
> The hair colour is different too the bi colours hair will look a deeper colour compared to a bi colourpoint.
> 
> ...


must admit she is very pretty and does look like a bsh. sometimes some bsh dont have the cobby look and face. how do you get a bi colour colourpoint and white, i'm intrigued? love your blue bi boy he's gorgeous.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jenny armour said:


> must admit she is very pretty and does look like a bsh. sometimes some bsh dont have the cobby look and face. how do you get a bi colour colourpoint and white, i'm intrigued? love your blue bi boy he's gorgeous.


Origionally by puting a cp to a bicolour.

And thankyou jenny.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jenny armour said:


> must admit she is very pretty and does look like a bsh. sometimes some bsh dont have the cobby look and face. how do you get a *bi colour colourpoint and white*, i'm intrigued? love your blue bi boy he's gorgeous.


Im not sure if you know but you describe them as either a bi colourpoint *or *colourpoint and white.

When you compare them to raggies thats where you'l get confused as they have different terms to discribe their patterens i believe.


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Im not sure if you know but you describe them as either a bi colourpoint *or *colourpoint and white.
> 
> When you compare them to raggies thats where you'l get confused as they have different terms to discribe their patterens i believe.


yes that is where i am getting it wrong. i have four raggies, two of which are blue and seal bicolours, and their full name is a bicolour colourpoints. i have never bred but when i first had my raggies in the 1990's 
i did at one time consider breeding, so looked into it, but the genetics always confused me. so i apologise for getting the terms wrong. i also ended up having my friends bsh blue cream until she was 11 years old. lovely cats.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jenny armour said:


> yes that is where i am getting it wrong. i have four raggies, two of which are blue and seal bicolours, and their full name is a bicolour colourpoints. i have never bred but when i first had my raggies in the 1990's
> i did at one time consider breeding, so looked into it, but the genetics always confused me. so i apologise for getting the terms wrong. i also ended up having my friends bsh blue cream until she was 11 years old. lovely cats.


No need to apologise jenny  asking questions is how you learn


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

apparently there is a breeder who is in the breed profile of your cat january 13 edition who breeds colourpoint and white bsh


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

jenny armour said:


> apparently there is a breeder who is in the breed profile of your cat january 13 edition who breeds colourpoint and white bsh


Ah becky


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## pipje (Jun 29, 2011)

Came across this bit information on Pawpeds and thought I'd just put it here for anyone in the UK interested in testing (HCM). These are the 2 recognised specialists who can do HCM echos in the UK. Prices might be a few years old.

---
Anne French
Division of Veterinary Clinical Sciences
Hospital for Small Animals
Easter Bush Veterinary Centre
Midlothian, Scotland, UK. EH25 9RG
E-mail: [email protected]
Make an appointment: Tel: +441316507650, fax: +441316507652
Price: Changes often, call for up to date price!

Luca Ferasin
Highcroft Referrals
Cardiology Service
615 Wells Road, Whitchurch, Bristol BS14 9BE
Highcroft Veterinary Referrals, Bristol 01275 838473
Make an appointment: Tel +44 (0)1275 838473, Fax +44 (0)1275 836146, or send a message.
Price: Full echo Doppler (with report on CD-rom) plus certification: £320 for the first cat and 160 per cat for further cats tested on the same day.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

The FAB lists more specialists doing this sort of screening - the two you mention are included on their list:

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) in cats

They also have a link to a list of practitioners of doppler screeningL

Doppler echocardiography examination


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Origionally by puting a cp to a bicolour.
> 
> And thankyou jenny.


Would this not have to be a CP to a Bi Colour carrying CP?

I have just put a self carrying CP to a Bi Colour carrying CP that could be interesting, we it would be if i thought she was carrying more than 2 kittens


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Lucy1012 said:


> *Would this not have to be a CP to a Bi Colour carrying CP?*
> I have just put a self carrying CP to a Bi Colour carrying CP that could be interesting, we it would be if i thought she was carrying more than 2 kittens


Yes lucy the bi colour would need to carrp cp.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Lucy1012 said:


> Would this not have to be a CP to a Bi Colour carrying CP?
> 
> *I have just put a self carrying CP to a Bi Colour carrying CP that could be interesting, we it would be if i thought she was carrying more than 2 kittens *




Lucy i believe you get bi bolours,selfs and cp's from that pairing.Not sure if you get bi cp's.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

In all fairness i am hoping for a Blue and Blue Bi Colour, but genitically they would possibly carry the correct genes.. oh i don't know it is all too confusing.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Lucy1012 said:


> In all fairness i am hoping for a Blue and Blue Bi Colour, but genitically they would possibly carry the correct genes.. oh i don't know it is all too confusing.


yes you could get those


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

but this is the self girl that gave me a whole CP litter last year so she is good at surprises.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Lol thats why i said 'could'


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> Lol thats why i said 'could'


lol meanie... i will get my blue/blue bi colour girl


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Lucy1012 said:


> lol meanie... i will get my blue/blue bi colour girl


he he well if ya dont get one and i do i will give you a shout


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Lucy1012 said:


> but this is the self girl that gave me a whole CP litter last year so she is good at surprises.


Been speaking to a friend and you can add bi coloupoints to your list.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Lucy1012 said:


> > Originally Posted by we love bsh's
> > Origionally by puting a cp to a bicolour.
> 
> 
> ...


CP x Bicolour = selfs carrying CP, and maybe bicolour carrying CP. I say maybe as the bicolour might only have one copy of the bicolour gene, so it's 50/50 for each kitten getting it and we all know how capricious the Gene Fairy is.

But if a bicolour is produced, it will be carrying CP so put to a CP and you might get the bicolour CP. I say might, as it will only have one copy of the bicolour gene so it's 50/50 if it passes it on. Gene Fairy and all that...


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