# Oranda swollen



## Fishnovice (May 3, 2017)

Hi

I hope someone can give me so,e advice please

My lionhead oranda has suddenly swollen, I've read about treating dropsy and spoken to my local Koi centre but I'm getting confused with the varying advice

I've got 125 litre tank with filter, water checks good,

My oranda is about 3-4 inches and I have 2 small sucker fish in there too and a few small plants

Oranda suddenly swelled Sunday night, the swelling is equal on both sides but only towards the rear end, scales look stretched out but are not standing off the body. I have fed her a couple of peas each day. I have been adding aquarium salt gradually, I'm up to 9 tea spoons and used a dose of Disease Clear ( Koi people told me to do this ). I also added some some stress coat. I've now read that I should have used Epsom salts ??? I'm worried that I'm just adding more and more to the tank while guessing what's best and as I inherited this tank and fish without any previous knowledge I'm just trying my best to save this lovely fish, I hope someone can give me some advice please

Thank you


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Hi.

Do you have a pic? That might help us diagnose. One from above, might help, too.

You say water checks good. What do you mean by that? Do you have the actual readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH? It might help to know temperature, too.

Any other symptoms?

Stress Coat is simply a dechloronator that helps to reduce the fish's stress levels. It's not a medication in itself. 

It could be dropsy, but if the fish isn't pine-coning (scales sticking out, or away from the body), it could be constipation and/or an egg-bound female. Did you de-shell the peas?


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## Fishnovice (May 3, 2017)

Thank you for replying,

I tested the water with a test strip, I generally do a 20% water change weekly and top up the water during the week. I did the last change on Saturday and the strip showed everything ok, I've looked after her like this for over 3 years

I've done another test strip now and all ok except 'Water Hardness GH ppm' is showing hard, that's not normal on my tests but I don't know if that's because I've added aquarium salt and / or the disease Clear

I Blanche and de-shell the peas, I generally give her peas a couple of times a week and I changed to sinking pellets about a year ago ( after noticing a problem with floating )

I don't have a water heater in the tank, tank is located in a sunny kitchen in the UK ( sorry I'm not sure if this site is global )

I understand the stress coat is for de-chlorinator, I just mentioned it to give a full picture of what I've added to the tank, as I was worried about overwhelming her with ' additional stuff' when I read that I should have added Epsom salts, so decided to ask for help rather than keep attempting various fixes

The fish is quite lively, happily eating and swimming ( but looks to have slight problems turning round ) she isn't having problems going up and down and is not floating on her side or anything. She looks fine from the front, but from behind she looks very swollen, I think the swelling has reduced slightly since Sunday

Hopefully I've attached 2 pictures

Thank you for your help


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Unfortunately, pics haven't posted. The site is UK based.

Sounds like she's constipated though.

Starve her for 3 days (she'll be fine), and then try the deshelled peas again.


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## Fishnovice (May 3, 2017)

Thank you so much for your advice

I'll starve her and will do a small water change and I won't add anything else to the tank


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Let us know how she/you get on.


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## Fishnovice (May 3, 2017)

Hi

Thanks again for your advice and asking for updates

I've been starving her and I did about a 30% water change yesterday but I'm not sure if there has been any change 

It's hard to know if the swelling is reducing or if I'm just getting used to seeing her swollen ?? I do think the swelling has reduced slightly in the mid body and top, I think it's just the lower back end that is swollen now

She's still swimming well and is quite lively, she comes to see me but I think she's just hoping for food

I really hope she's not suffering and hope that another day food free will help

Thank you


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## Fishnovice (May 3, 2017)

She's deflated woo hoo

It's happened quite suddenly, she was still swollen this morning and I gave her 2 small peas and I've just checked on her and the swelling has gone down, she looks a bit like a deflated balloon, her skin looks loose

I'm really hopeful, thank you so much for your advice LinznMilly, it's amazing how attached you can become to a goldfish and I was upset that she was suffering


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Fishnovice said:


> She's deflated woo hoo
> 
> It's happened quite suddenly, she was still swollen this morning and I gave her 2 small peas and I've just checked on her and the swelling has gone down, she looks a bit like a deflated balloon, her skin looks loose
> 
> I'm really hopeful, thank you so much for your advice LinznMilly, it's amazing how attached you can become to a goldfish and I was upset that she was suffering


That's fantastic news!  Sounds like it was "just" constipation, then. Well done, and I'm glad to have helped.


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## Fishnovice (May 3, 2017)

I'm very sad to report my little oranda didn't make it . She was perky and normal size for a couple of days, eating and swimming well and then she suddenly shrank and appeared weak, she seemed to be getting pulled by the filter so I put her in a small separate bowl with some disease clear, but I think I knew she was fading too quickly to be saved

I have enjoyed her for 3 years ( I've no idea what sex 'she' was it's just she looked like she was wearing orange lipstick )

So now I've got 125 litre tank with 2 little plecos, which I hardly ever see because they've made their home under the filter. I know they're alive as I catch fleeting glances of them, so I'm thinking of getting 2 small goldfish, I'm staying away from the fancy goldfish, I love them but I don't feel like I'm knowledgeable enough and it seems that they often have problems with their egg shaped bodies

I'm going to take a water sample to the specialist fish guy and get his advice on my water quality before I add any other goldfish. I have been told that there was some major water pipe replacement done in our area over the last few weeks, so I don't know if that harmed my fish ( but the plecos are ok ) and I want to make sure that the tank is healthy before I add any more

I'm amazed how much I miss my lovely little fish, the tank is bigger than I would have chosen and takes a lot of upkeep, my husband was the fish expert, but I have 2 little plecs living there so I can't just abandon the tank, but they're not much fun to watch as they're always hidden

I also have a pond !! Again that was my husband's domain, but I've managed to keep 20+ goldfish alive for the past few years, I've lost a couple, but I think that's just nature and the ones in there have bred ( I now have quite a lot of black / bronze goldfish that surprised me as we only added gold / blue comets ) and that seems like a little happy community with frogs that seem to produce 10 ton of frogspawn every year. So my inherited fish take quite a bit of work for this fish novice

Thanks again LinznMilly and if you have any thoughts on what I should do to ensure my tank is healthy I'm happy to receive any advice


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Fishnovice said:


> I'm very sad to report my little oranda didn't make it . She was perky and normal size for a couple of days, eating and swimming well and then she suddenly shrank and appeared weak, she seemed to be getting pulled by the filter so I put her in a small separate bowl with some disease clear, but I think I knew she was fading too quickly to be saved
> 
> I have enjoyed her for 3 years ( I've no idea what sex 'she' was it's just she looked like she was wearing orange lipstick )
> 
> ...


So sorry to hear this. 

Depending on what the plecs are I'd be tempted to invest in a heater and turn the tank into a tropical one. Maybe with a nice shoal of tetras/rasbora/barbs. Alternatively, you could go temperate with white cloud mountain minnows or danios. Personally, I wouldn't put a goldfish in there because they'd quickly outgrow it ... unless you have space in your pond.

I also recommend investing in a freshwater testing kit, such as the API Master (£25 +/- on ebay) and testing your water yourself, rather than rely on shop staff. That way, you know exactly what's going on in the tank and can act immediately to changes in water quality or chemistry.

A lot of keeping fish healthy, comes down to looking after their water. There's an old saying that, if you take care of the water, the fish take care of themselves. A fully cycled tank with a stable pH goes a long way to reduce stress and, subsequently, disease in a fish tank. Understocking is also good practice - it's like anythin else - cramped overcrowded fish tanks spread disease so much quicker than an understocked tank

Apart from that, quarantine new stock in a separate tank (although, for QT purposes, a "tank" can be a suitably sized storage container, as long as it's suitable for food, it's safe for fish) for 2-4 weeks before adding to the tank. QT should have a filter (a sponge filter will suffice, and is inexpensive), heater (especially for tropical fish) and some decor to give the fish a sense of security. Whether or not you add gravel or sand is a matter of choice. Bare bottom tanks are easier to keep clean, though. Some fish keepers routinely treat new stock for parasites - personally, I don't because I'm of the opinion that doing so can just delay treatment if something much more serious shows up, such as Columnaris. I just employ a "watch and wait" method, and treat if disease shows up.


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## NaomiM (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry about your oranda 

I agree with LinznMilly re the heater. Plecs aren't coldwater fish - some can be kept temperate (but you'll still need a heater in winter unless you're sure the tank never drops below 18 C even at night) while others are definitely tropicals.

Plus, 125L is definitely too small for two goldies plus two plecs, even assuming the plecs are of one of the small varieties. But it's a good size for a tropical tank - and tropicals are actually easier to keep than coldwater fish, as well as there being loads more variety to choose from


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