# What are your views on Neutering before kittens leave to go to new homes



## Maistaff (Dec 27, 2009)

We have just had our first litter of NFC's and having had long chats to our vet and with other breeders we have made the choice to neuter and Spey our kittens prior to them leaving to go to their new homes. For us it will give us a great piece of mind that we are not adding to the ever growing population of "oops" / " designer" litters that are popping up all over the place e.g Bengals x NFC's 

I was wondering what your views and thoughts on this are and if you perhaps already do it for your own litters


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

I would if I could. There isn't a vet within an hour of me that will do it and I don't think it sensible to subject kittens to a long journey for surgery. I have known other breeders who do. Seen the results post op, how little it affects them and think it's one less stress point in a cat's life if it can be done while they are still in the birth home to recover with their litter mates.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

What age will they leave for their new homes?

I disagree with neutering and spaying at a young age. Animals have sex hormones for a reason, for growth and mental maturity. Take it away too young and you risk growth problems and them staying kittens forever mentally.


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## Maistaff (Dec 27, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> What age will they leave for their new homes?
> 
> I disagree with neutering and spaying at a young age. Animals have sex hormones for a reason, for growth and mental maturity. Take it away too young and you risk growth problems and them staying kittens forever mentally.


Our kittens will be with us until our vet feels they will be ready to go to their new homes and only when he says it is ok will they be able to leave. If this means we keep them an extra week, two weeks or more then that will be the case.

Our new owners are more than happy to wait for our kittens so the time scale is of no problem


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Animals have sex hormones for a reason, for growth and mental maturity


Assuming this is true, at what age do you consider it OK to neuter? Six months is far too young for either full growth or mental maturity so presumably you regard anything below ten months to be too early.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

havoc said:


> Assuming this is true, at what age do you consider it OK to neuter? Six months is far too young for either full growth or mental maturity so presumably you regard anything below ten months to be too early.


yes. I'm more into dogs and with dogs, i don't agree with neutering until the dog has reached full mental and physical maturity. This varies depending on the size of the dog. With a small breed, females should be spayed after their first season, males after 1 year old. With a large or giant breed, females should be spayed after their second or third season (or after 2-3 years old) and males after 2-3 years.


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## Maistaff (Dec 27, 2009)

I find this an intresting article

Policy Statement 1: Timing of neutering


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

It is a good general overview. The main objection used to be the danger of anaesthetics but good and safe protocol has now been established. The issue of stress is a good one and from what I've seen it is actually minimised by neutering a litter together.

Most breeders I know who neuter prior to kittens leaving do so at 14 weeks, a week after final vaccs, and healthy, bouncing kittens leave at 15 weeks.


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## Maistaff (Dec 27, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> yes. I'm more into dogs and with dogs, i don't agree with neutering until the dog has reached full mental and physical maturity. This varies depending on the size of the dog. With a small breed, females should be spayed after their first season, males after 1 year old. With a large or giant breed, females should be spayed after their second or third season (or after 2-3 years old) and males after 2-3 years.


I disagree that dogs should wait that long until they are neutered / spayed. As you mention some breeds are slow maturing and can take up to 3 years and in that time a number of litters can be produced by some irresponsible owners. Some owners find it hard not to let their dogs mate on the first season so waiting that length of time where in some cases a bitch can have two seasons a year could be a catastrophe for the number of unwanted pups born

I understand your reasoning behind your thoughts and fully appreciate why you would prefer to wait but unfortunately there are so many irrisponsible owners out there that for this to happen could potentially be a nightmare


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> yes. I'm more into dogs and with dogs, i don't agree with neutering until the dog has reached full mental and physical maturity


Why do you believe this holds true for cats? Cats aren't dogs.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Maistaff said:


> I disagree that dogs should wait that long until they are neutered / spayed. As you mention some breeds are slow maturing and can take up to 3 years and in that time a number of litters can be produced by some irresponsible owners. Some owners find it hard not to let their dogs mate on the first season so waiting that length of time where in some cases a bitch can have two seasons a year could be a catastrophe for the number of unwanted pups born
> 
> I understand your reasoning behind your thoughts and fully appreciate why you would prefer to wait but unfortunately there are so many irrisponsible owners out there that for this to happen could potentially be a nightmare


so should puppies be neutered before leaving to go to their new homes (which is usually around 8-10 weeks)?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> so should puppies be neutered before leaving to go to their new homes (which is usually around 8-10 weeks)?


That wasn't the question posed and can presumably only be answered on the dog forum. Nobody with cats is looking to neuter kittens by the age puppies go to new homes. What most accepted protocol advocates is to *neuter before sexual maturity* as the main aim is to prevent unplanned litters. There are other health benefits of course such as the removal of any chance of pyometra in females or testicular cancer in males.


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## notsure (Sep 2, 2011)

Maistaff said:


> We have just had our first litter of NFC's and having had long chats to our vet and with other breeders we have made the choice to neuter and Spey our kittens prior to them leaving to go to their new homes. For us it will give us a great piece of mind that we are not adding to the ever growing population of "oops" / " designer" litters that are popping up all over the place e.g Bengals x NFC's
> 
> I was wondering what your views and thoughts on this are and if you perhaps already do it for your own litters


I was actually looking up some information on this very subject when I replied about it on another thread last night. The early neutering of kittens is widely advocated in Australia, and I was actually surprised it wasn't as widely done in other parts of the world. In Australia for example it would be very rare for a kitten to leave a rescue centre without having been neutered - since there is no way to guarantee that they will be done by the new owners at a later date.

Here are a couple of the links I found on the subject:

The Australian RSPCA's take on the matter: 
Why does the RSPCA advocate early age desexing

Also a report done for the Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries in Qld (this is a pdf file) Report on the Validity and Usefulness of Early Age Desexing in Dogs and Cats

Just as an aside, I'm not a breeder myself, but I'm all for it to be honest - if all kittens were desexed prior to rehoming (pedigree & moggy alike) then there is no chance of those kittens breeding accidently or otherwise since as we all know not everyone who owns a pet takes the responsibility as seriously as they should.

That being said, my two boys probably won't be done until 6 months - from what hubby said after he rang the vets to enquire about vacinations, chipping & snipping they like to wait til then (they like to chip at the same time apparently). Though I may talk to them about it when I take the boys for their 2nd shots next month - although with Christmas and all it may just be easier to wait until mid January (6 months) to get them done anyway.

notsure


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> The early neutering of kittens is widely advocated in Australia, and I was actually surprised it wasn't as widely done in other parts of the world


It's becoming far more accepted here in the UK - thanks in no small part to Oz exporting enlightened vets


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I am still on the fence with this one. My own vet won't do it as he feels the kittens are too young. I'm not sure if any other vets in the area would do it though. There are several practices all within easy travelling distance from me so that wouldn't be a problem.
I can see the arguments for it but I then think that if I don't trust prospective owners to do that then I shouldn't be selling a kitten to them in the first place. Perhaps I'm too naive. I do ask buyers to return a slip, signed by their vet, to say that their kitten has been neutered and haven't been let down yet.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

I know that my local breeder of NFC neuters before the kittens are re-homed, her vet is South African so maybe it is more common there as in Australia. I think it it a good idea in principal, and certainly one which I feel should be adopted by rescue centres. There is just too high a chance of error otherwise. 
I consider myself a responsible owner but will admit ( in fact even posted a thread on here about it ) that when I got Mitzy last year I had a bit of a wobble about neutering....the usual 'oh, but what gorgeous babies she would have' It WAS just a day dream but it is all too easy to let those dates drift and end up with a pregnant kitty as a result.
Also, understandably, many new owners are very nervous about the dangers of the op itself and with early neutering this worry is taken away and the risk borne by the breeder.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> but I then think that if I don't trust prospective owners to do that then I shouldn't be selling a kitten to them in the first place


With you 100% there - but that doesn't figure in my reasons for thinking it a good idea


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## Maistaff (Dec 27, 2009)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> so should puppies be neutered before leaving to go to their new homes (which is usually around 8-10 weeks)?


I believe that the RSPCA and some recuse are doing that, last i heard the RSPCA were doing it at 6 weeks of age !


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## K337 (May 20, 2011)

It's just a bit different in Aus as the message in public education is that cats need to be neutered to prevent breeding and roaming and they need to be brought inside at night to help protect the local wildlife. Recently, more and more people are advocating for fully in-door cats due to the threat they pose to wildlife and early neutering is considered almost essential for a house cat.

I grew up thinking that boy cats were quite smelly and you need to neuter them asap as kittens, certainly before you bring them home. And if you get a girl and you don't neuter her asap then she'll be screaming the house down and almost impossible to recall, so best to do those before they come home too. 
While I know a bit better now, I think it's a safer for the basic level of public knowledge (or ignorance) to be pro-neuter. You could have knocked me over with a feather when a UK vet declined to snip my boys as they weren't four months old!


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

cants arent dogs 

I think its fantastic! The more people doing it the better!  

breeders should stay in contact and make sure that people neuter, or do it themselves, they recover within hours when younger, no hormones are affected, as long as they have balls that are down they can be done lol!  growth isnt affected, neuter cats are bigger, its routine in the usa at 8weeks of age. We had our kittens (rescue foster kittens) done at 11weeks of age, they were recovered before they got home! didnt need collars or weeks to recover, and we have done out bit to stop 'oh my friend/brother/kid openned the door' 'I was away my nan let her out' 'I didnt she she could get pregnant on her first call' 'I cant afford £20 to do it' etc etc!

The kitten Im getting next year is from a fab breeder who neuters, she was one of the last within her breeder friends to neuter as most do, saves the new owners having to sort it out so its all done 

well done to you I hope you do it! :thumbup:


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## Maistaff (Dec 27, 2009)

catlove844 said:


> cants arent dogs
> 
> I think its fantastic! The more people doing it the better!
> 
> ...


Thank you

Our kittens are already booked in and will be done on Friday 21st October


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I have a vet only 30mins away who does it - certainly seriously considering form our first set of kittens next year.


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

I personally like the idea, it gives you the peace of mind that no one will be breeding them, and for the likes of me (who lives 60 miles from the nearest vet who is quite frankly rubbish) it makes life a little easier. I would happily pay a bit more for a neutered/spayed kitten.

I wouldn't want a puppy done though.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I dont agree with it I prefer animals to grow with natural hormons the only reason I can see for doing this is for the breeders sake so no one can ever breed there cats. Me personally would never buy a kitten from such a breeder as doing this can hide health issues i.e a kitten with one testical.


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## LittleTyke (Apr 14, 2011)

Will your kitten's show careers not be affected by an early neater? (not that this is the be all and end all) but if the majority of breeders begin this practice then surely show neauters will become non-existent? I know with BSH a male done before 9-10months will never develop enough to hold his own.

As a general practice though I have no problems. For me it's still a little too early on in the practice for me to do it but in a few years time when the fill affects are better known I might consider it.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Show neuters now have to be done at six months if you want to show them after that - of course you could have them done later - just can't show them after 6 months until they are. However, the studies seem to show that growth ISN'T affected by early neutering. The US and Aus have been early neutering for nigh on 20+ years and that''s where the studies are from. In fact most early neutered boys tend to go on to be a little heavier, chunkier etc than their later neutered compatriots.

However, it is still up to the individual - if you want to neuter early then fine - if not don't.


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## Maistaff (Dec 27, 2009)

DKDREAM said:


> I dont agree with it I prefer animals to grow with natural hormons the only reason I can see for doing this is for the breeders sake so no one can ever breed there cats. Me personally would never buy a kitten from such a breeder as doing this can hide health issues i.e a kitten with one testical.


Our kittens have been checked over by our vet and i am happy to say that all 5 boys have two testicals.

We have no problems with selling on breeding queens to the "right" homes in the future but all the kittens which leave us to go in to "pet" homes will be neutered prior to leaving us.


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## Maistaff (Dec 27, 2009)

happysaz133 said:


> I personally like the idea, it gives you the peace of mind that no one will be breeding them, and for the likes of me (who lives 60 miles from the nearest vet who is quite frankly rubbish) it makes life a little easier. I would happily pay a bit more for a neutered/spayed kitten.
> 
> I wouldn't want a puppy done though.


We are not charging any more for our kittens as we are neutering them, we feel it is our choice to do this so we are not passing on the cost to any potential new owners :thumbup:


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## Jenny1966 (Feb 7, 2011)

Paddypaws said:


> I know that my local breeder of NFC neuters before the kittens are re-homed, her vet is South African so maybe it is more common there as in Australia. I think it it a good idea in principal, and certainly one which I feel should be adopted by rescue centres. There is just too high a chance of error otherwise.
> I consider myself a responsible owner but will admit ( in fact even posted a thread on here about it ) that when I got Mitzy last year I had a bit of a wobble about neutering....the usual 'oh, but what gorgeous babies she would have' It WAS just a day dream but it is all too easy to let those dates drift and end up with a pregnant kitty as a result.
> *Also, understandably, many new owners are very nervous about the dangers of the op itself and with early neutering this worry is taken away and the risk borne by the breeder*.


I personally think that for this one reason it's a good idea. The most worrying time I've had with Molly was when she went for her op. I would have been more than happy to not have gone through this.


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## PennyGC (Sep 24, 2011)

Yes early neutering of any animal means that they grow more rather than less - although the strains on cat joints is less than on dogs. In dogs whilst some cancers are reduced, others are increased and there's more chance of some other medical problems and aggression issues.

I wouldn't buy a cat that had been neutered prior to 6 months - with cats coming into season constantly until they've been mating I would want them done at this time and have had all my cats neutered at 6 months. I don't breed cats, nor do I wish to, but if I did I wouldn't sell to people who weren't responsible. I do breed dogs occasionally and insist that they wait until maturity to neuter (if they decide to neuter) their pup and they sign an agreement to this - can't police it though. I have had some flak from vets who merely see 'litter prevention - neuter early' without considering the dog's health or the responsibility levels of the owners. One in particularly was very pushy. The owners persisted though and their dog isn't a nuisance to anyone and isn't subjected to unwanted attention that early neutered dogs can attract - nor the health issues early neutering can cause.
With cats - Australia has special reasons for not really wanting cats at all, which I can understand, but we don't have those problems here. There is no need to neuter cats at this early age - much better to wait to 6 months. As I say, it'd be a lost sale and I've not had any 'accidents' with my cats over the last 30years, but then I'm a 'responsible' person


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

spid said:


> Show neuters now have to be done at six months if you want to show them after that - of course you could have them done later - just can't show them after 6 months until they are. .


Sorry but that is inaccurate. That rule only applies to cats being shown in the Non Pedigree/Pedigree Pet Sections.

A cat shown in the Pedigree section is shown as an adult if not neutered by 9 months or if neutered by 9 months is shown as a neuter.

I have a show neuter neutered at 13 months who I showed as an adult for the four months prior to neutering him at which point he transferred to neuter classes.


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

I'm all for it. All my pet kittens are neutered/spayed before they move (they move at appr. 16 weeks).

There's been a lot of research done and I went through lots of studies before I decided.

I can't really argue with the American Veterinary Medical Association, the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association, the British Small Animal Veterinary Association, the European Society of Feline Medicine, the Feline Advisory Bureau or the Winn Feline Foundation either.

Here's a great article (PDF).


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

After the nightmare I've had getting Leo and Lottie done I can honestly say that i will never get a girl kitten again before she's been speyed. Even the vet I've used who were recommended by the CPL because they early neuter seem to think im barbaric or something for getting them done early, even though they're 5 months and even though they do RSPCA kittens younger. 


I hate seeing Lottie like this as well, I just want her back to her normal self chasing the boys around.


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## Steverags (Jul 19, 2010)

We have had all our kittens neutered at 13 weeks with no troubles other that a couple being too boisterous and splitting their stitches as for the not growing properly because of the early neutering you should see our Jack 16 months old and 14lb, no stubbing of growth there...lol


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## dom85 (Apr 5, 2011)

How does it work when you're a breeder though, surely you can't separate them all but would they not all lick each others stitches?


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Think its fantastic well done 

with the kittens the boys are literally recovered and normal when they get home, they dont lick each other, the girls have dissolvable stitches and have never licked each other, were normal when they got home no meds no collar nothing, playing and eating! After a nice sleep fully recovered. the incision on a girl was about 1mm (SO tiny!)

here is a pic about 3 hours AFTER the neutering on a girl:









This is 6-7days later:









Its totally incredible! The quickness of the healing is amazing.

Ill be honest I didnt agree with early neutering Untill I gained more knowledge in it, its quicker recovery, doesnt impact on maturing or growth. Its just the sexual bits, 6 months? Why do vets says 6 months? If its meant to be a sexually maturing thing? Its best to do cats before this happens…so why 6 months? No idea why, vets couldn't answer me either, something to do with weight? Not really as long as boys bits are in the scrotom they can be neutered...

Then the trusting new owners, everyone's been great but some people arent so upfront some lie, why do they lie? No idea if you say 'I want to breed' breeders will talk to you about it, only had 1 person lie to me, they werent interested in breeding, they wanted to let the girl outside at 6 months old to get pregnant to get the money back that they spent on her. Quickly sorted that out! Remember that everyone was new at some point, but some breeders arent happy to sell on active for breeding as they may not know enough, so its worth asking a few , not asking one and saying 'no one will sell!' Of course they do! Otherwise wouldn't have breeders! They just want to make sure its for the right reasons. .

So hopefully if more people do it it will stop 'accidental' litters and people who are interested in breeding can go to the right route. Then more rescues will do it and bring the population down 

We offer it to out kitten buyers if they really are worried or arent happy they can do it themselves, but every single person who has, has called/texted/emailed me in tears being upset that they wished I had done it, less stress for them, less pressure, I take all of it off of them, not seeing their baby in pain etc and they are just ready to go. they do it in usa/aus lots of other countries, the vet I use has been going round the world early neutering from Japan to the usa, he neutered a pregnant 5 month old kitten in japan, and that sealed it for me! They arent even stressed by it, they are crazy little sods, unless you experience how quick they recover I guess you wont know, but I think its the way forward! :laugh:


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

dom85 said:


> How does it work when you're a breeder though, surely you can't separate them all but would they not all lick each others stitches?


Haven't had any problems with them licking each other and of course I don't separate them from each other. The kittens fall asleep together and they wake up together. When they come home they run out from the carrier and act as if nothing has happened.


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