# Dominance issues - Guinea Pigs HELP :(



## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

Hi I have 2 guinea pigs and from them being babies they were always together. . .we bought them from pets at home (we don't like getting pets from big places like that but we felt sorry for them in their glass run thing) so we bought them. . . they happily lived together indoors while it was cold and we were planning on putting them outside. . .then the orange one (Auby) had developed a vit C deficiency through not eating the food or the veg and we hadn't noticed because pepper had been eating normally so the food was still going down quite a lot. . . we only realised because I said he looked smaller than pepper and seemed to be hopping around like a rabbit . . .which is one of the more severe symptoms. . .

anyway so we force fed him vitamin c in water, he even actually quite happily ate vitamin C chewable (they're dry and chalky not actually chewy so they don't stick in his teeth) tablets. . .we gave him a mixture of these, vitamin c tablets that dissolved in water, and alternated this with the Pro-C in syringes(as we had read that the pro-c left in water lost it's value) he wouldn't drink out of his water bottle or a bowl so we had to syringe him with water every few hours. . .fortunately he would eat hay but he wouldn't eat his food. . .he would only eat broccoli (which is good because it's high in vitamin c) but he would only eat it if I peeled the outside darker layer off and gave him the soft innards of the stems

buuuuuuuuut anyway the main point is because he was ill we had to separate them into 2 rabbit cages, they've still never been outside because we're trying to socialise them and make them live with each other again.. . 

we've tried the whole introducing them again on neutral territory and we've tried leaving the cage side by side so they're close but can't get to each other but everything we do just leads to lots and lots of teeth chattering and they produce awful smells, urinate all over the floor, smell each other's back ends and their testicles descend . . .it's really horrible to watch. .. we used to put them back in separate cages straight away but we decided to sit and watch what happened because they don't actually fight but it just doesn't get any better they just carry on urinating and chattering away. . . 

it's really sad because before Auby got poorly they would talk to each other all day in their little squeaks and sing to each other  I really miss them being friends

I wondered if we needed to go as far as getting them "done" if that's even possible. . .because we're obviously never going to breed from them or anything but I just don't want to do anything drastic that's not necessary 

thanks for reading


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## CarolineH (Aug 4, 2009)

Hi there. Getting them neutered will make no difference. It is not worth the risk to them to have them done as the only benefit will be that they cannot breed. I am afraid that if they are male, once you have separated them, it is rare to get them back together. You may just have to content yourself with having them side by side - so that they can see each other, but not hassle each other.

Do not risk putting them back together and forget any romantic notions that they will make up and be 'friends' again.  If you want to put them outside then put them in seperate runs or divide the run you have into two if that is possible. They will be content if they can see and smell each other but not get together to fight. It's not 'dominance'. It's normal. In the wild, cavies (guinea pigs) would only have one male per herd anyway.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

if you cant get them back together, i would advise neutering and getting them both girl friends, they are highly social creatures and even if they dont like each other, they do benifit from company

piggy neuters are very simple and low risk operation, but i doubt it would help get them back together

i would also recommend keeping them inside, i know lots of people do still keep them outside, but pigs are really house pets, time in a run outside on a nice day is good for them, but it is always best to house them inside if you can


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## Maria_1986 (May 15, 2011)

How old are they?

It sounds like they could be hitting puberty and that can cause squabbles anyway, your healthy boy may also be picking on the other as he can tell he is not quite right. What you describe though is just them sorting out the pecking order again and is normal for most all boar intros - separating and trying again will mean it starts all over again each time you try - the best thing to do is leave them too it to sort out amongst themselves. If you haven't read up about the safe, non combative dominance behaviour check out this site Guinea Pigs Social Life

However personally I neuter both (neutering will not change their behaviour) and find them a girlfriend each - a good rescue will help you with the introductions. Neutering your boys now will mean that, should you need to find a new friend in the future, it will be easier as you will have more choice.

If you do not have space/time/funds for 4 pigs you could try waiting 6 months for their hormones to calm down and for you poorly boy to be 100% again and re introduce.

Good luck


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

yeah we never liked the idea of leaving them outside all of the time, they were just going to be outside in the day time and maybe on really warm nights occasionally (because the room they are in does get quite warm when the weather is hot)

I wish we'd not separated them when Auby was poorly but it was the only way we could know whether he had eaten any food and to be honest the dominance thing seemed to start then as Pepper was climbing all over him and we're pretty sure he weed on him actually because Auby wasn't able to get away from him quickly enough and generally smelled really strongly of urine. . . we were just about to buy them a bigger cage too  (the ones they have are the biggest rabbit cages they sell in pets at home but we were thinking of building them one out of the C&C squares everyone recommends online.


ummmm they must only be about 4 months at least. . .I can't remember when we got them I think it was sometime around valentine's day and obviously they were old enough to be homed by then. . 


I think we'll definitely look into getting some girls
So we would need to introduce the boys to the girls slowly. . . would we need to make sure we got 2 girls that were a similar age to the boys? because I wouldn't like to put a young girl in each cage and then the boys try to dominate them. . . .kind of wish we'd got girls in the first place now instead. . .although I wouldn't swap them for the world but I imagine girls live better together 

I'd definitely get the girls from a rescue place but then I would have to get 2 individual girls because I'd feel guilty taking them away from each other if they were a pair and then dumping them in with boyfriends hahahaha
we do most likely have the funds to get and look after 2 girls too (especially if I get one of the nursing jobs I've applied for  ) so we'll definitely look into that but I think we'd get them done and then wait a bit before we get girls and let them recover  . . . I'm assuming that like most other animals and humans it's a lot easier to neuter the boys than it is to spay the girls? Because obviously I want to do what's best for the animals . . .I imagine it's more of an external operation for the boys

thanks for your replies  and sorry I type so much!!! haha


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

that link lo0ks really helpful too Maria_1986


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## Maria_1986 (May 15, 2011)

C&C are great and in my experience boys do prefer a bit more space than girls do and it might help you keep your boys together. You could also try removing any hidy houses with only one entrance, therefore Pepper wouldn't be able to corner Auby. I use fiddlesticks and they seem to work well for my lot. I wouldn't be without my C&C cage now before we got our current cat we had our lidless and it was great to be able to watch the pigs.

It sounds a little like Auby may have been being picked on because he was ill (my whole herd turned on the alpha pig when she became ill, each trying to take her place I think) and if they are around 4 months then it could be a bit of puberty hitting too. Yes, neutering is easier for the boys than girls, however please make sure you find a vet who is experienced working with guineas to avoid any complications, it is a relatively safe op, however like any operation there is still a certain amount of risk. Most vets recommend waiting around 3 weeks post op before introducing to girls to make sure everything is healed and that there is no pregnancy risk - although some vets do suggest more I have never had a problem when using the 3 week rule.

The age of the girls won't matter, however as your boys are young, you might want to get young or lively girls so that they will play together - personally I would find a rescue who will let your boys pick their girlfriends themselves. The boys may try to dominate the girls for a little while while they sort out the pecking order, however if you adopt a dominant female you might find it is her who takes the top pig spot. It all depends a lot on the individual personalities of the guineas.

Good luck with your job application


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

ah excellent that all sounds brilliant. . .

maybe if we got them a C&C cage and put some of the squares down the middle so the boys can come up to the bars but not actually get to each other for a little while too.

it was awful when we put them back together, we introduced them in the lounge and they showed absolutely no signs of aggression towards each other. . .they just acted like they used to, running around, singing and calling to each other and they were happy but we put them back in separate cages that night because we didn't want to leave them together unattended and we did the same thing for a few days just to make sure there were no arguments and then as soon as we put them in a cage together (after thoroughly cleaning it so it wouldn't smell like either of them and put 2 houses in there so they couldn't fight over them and lots of toys) and they just started teeth chattering and sizing each other up, walking around in circles and started to get really aggressive so we watched them for a bit to see if they would stop and they didn't, it didn't escalate to proper biting but they were mounting and nipping and after quite a long time of this we had to separate them because it seemed far too stressful for them. . .so then we introduced them again on neutral territory the following day when they had calmed down and they starting raising up at each other and everything . .. we think it was because when we put them in the cage they were suddenly in a small space and couldn't choose to get away like in the lounge :/

How long does their puberty last? because I wonder if it would be worth building a C&C cage in 2 sections for them to be separate but together and waiting out their puberty to see if they get any better with each other? because I wouldn't want to have them neutered if it wasn't absolutely necessary (e.g. if we get girls because obviously it would be very irresponsible to get girls from a rescue and then let them breed!) just because there are so many risks I wouldn't want one of them dying or something just because we wanted them to have friends


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## Maria_1986 (May 15, 2011)

It depends on the pig but I have found that in my experience they all have settled down within 6 months - sorry to be so useless!

If you are looking at building a new C&C then try the intros in there - it will be all new and with no lingering smells that might not have been cleaned away and then you can always separate if needed by running another set of grids down the middle. The size thing could have been an issue with putting them back in the previous cage, it could also still a have a little bit of lingering scent.

Neutering is pretty safe if done by a knowledgeable vet - my local rescue have had about a lot of GPs castrated with no problems. This page gives a few questions to ask the vet to help you decide who to use Guinea Pig Welfare » Castration Questions for your vet…

ETA - 
Just had a natter to someone else about this and they said that they have had a couple of pairs of boars given to them because they were fighting and upon being put in a bigger cage the squabbling stopped


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## Nico0laGouldsmith (Apr 23, 2011)

ah that's really interesting thanks so much for your advice. . .I think we'll try a bit longer with them then, might get some of the C&C squares and actually make a big run in the garden and sit in it so I can break up any squabbling during the day for a little while til they get over the puberty thing and then build them a nice big cage indoors and see how they are with that and separate it into two if necessary before we think about neutering and getting some girls. . .it's worth a try because we'll never leave them alone at risk of hurting each other and there's nothing to stop us from neutering and getting girls at a later date if all else fails. . .I'd love to have some girls but I just don't want to rush into it


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