# Royal chatter



## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Rather than the thread on the Queen and King Charles being cluttered up with random stuff like holding hands and Harry's whining, should we have a "Royal Chatter" thread? 

I just posted about hand holding in the Queen's thread and then though maybe better to start a whole new thread where we can discuss the propriety of holding hands (you Brits are weird 😝) or anything else that's not directly related to the Queen's funeral and King Charles' reign?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I'll start  
Regarding hand holding....

You guys are so weird!  
If it's hot you just link one or two fingers!

I also love walking arm in arm like this:










But it's not necessarily a romantic thing, I'll walk like this with my son and daughter too, or a close friend


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

No! I have to hold my bag in my right side ... this pic makes me cringe


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I don't mind other people holding hands, linking arms etc, but its just not for me, never has been.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I think in that photo though, she needs to hold onto him to stop herself tripping over her handbag! Surely nobody in real life carries their bags that low.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Deguslave said:


> I don't mind other people holding hands, linking arms etc, but its just not for me, never has been.


I don't mind it but in context. I went to a pet dog training workshop a couple of years ago to spectate & a couple there held hands the entire few hours. It was nauseating, there was no need, they were middle aged so surely should be able to sit next to each other without touching each other.

I haven't really thought about this till now but I can't remember ever holding hands with a BF, even when I was young & really in love with them. 

I


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

We’re not all that cold, honest (not that I think it’s cold for an individual to not be ‘touchy feely’, thinking more of strange royal protocol which for some reason some commoners also take very seriously). The aristocracy are/were raised very differently and the old guard are probably quite repressed. Less so for the younger generation hence scenes of _gasp_ hand holding yesterday.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

As you say, we Brits are weird 🤣 
While there's nothing wrong with holding hands in public, I feel that it is still frowned upon in some situations. Perhaps the younger generations are more comfortable with it than some of us oldies 😁
With Harry and Meghan, I can see that they are a very 'touchy-feely' sort of couple and that's absolutely fine, but some parts of the British press are intent on causing any disaffection with them, warranted or not. They are going to point out any minor infringement of royal protocol.
Personally, I don't walk holding hands with my husband, mainly because he's six foot two and I'm all of five foot nothing 🤣 I can't keep pace with him and I'm usually the obligatory six paces behind 🤣


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Just a thought.... were the tears Meghan was sheading for the Queen or for herself and guilt for all the nasty things she's been saying about the royal family, or is it because she's an actress and and just turn on the tears when needed.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

I find it very weird that on one hand we like to call people out of touch, particularly the wealthy and aristocratic. And then on the other hand expect them to uphold some (mostly) unwritten set of principles and behaviours. Which in my mind lends itself to them being out of touch.

They are just people. 

Hand holding, whether by us ordinary folk or by royals and aristocracy, doesn't bother me in any situation. And in situations where I personally believe human touch can be beneficial I see it as a nice thing as I can empathize with why they might need to do that.

I feel like I've learned a lot more about the rights and wrongs of hand holding on the forums in the last 24 hours tho 😂


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I think under some circumstances hand-holding is just a gesture of support, and that’s what Meghan was doing.

For better or worse I think she’s the stronger and more resilient person in this relationship.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I sometimes feel she’s hanging in to him in case he makes a run for it😀


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## Emlar (Sep 29, 2020)

Me and my OH hold hands when walking sometimes. I've never really thought about it! 🤣


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## Jaf (Apr 17, 2014)

People that hold hands in public should blinking well stop! I'm not going to walk round them, into the road (?), anymore. Selfish morons. 

Same with people and brollies. Stop poking me in the eye.

As for the royals, sack them.


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## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

I don’t have any objection to hand holding in public, and have done it in the past (not really possible now that I use a wheelchair) but I wouldn’t in a formal situation. Having said that, I don’t really care whether Meghan and Harry (or anyone else) held hands yesterday.


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

Is this thread for real ??????????????????


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Thanks @O2.0 I'm glad you've started this, so as not to derail the other threads. 

I'm a great rule follower - always have been - and if I'm perfectly honest, I think H&M holding hands yesterday wasn't appropriate. They were leaving a very solemn ceremony and it seems almost to me like they are trying to antagonise the press, so that they can then complain about the press commenting about them? I obviously have no idea if they have that intention (or indeed any intention!), or if they just hold hands always. They did the same when they did the walkabout in Windsor. I almost also wonder whether it's, "Look at us, we hold hands, we are so in love" compared to W&C who don't. Plus William is the heir to the throne, so his behaviour will always be scrutinised - like the pictures from their dating days at Uni, when people are in uproar as they _gasp_ had fun in their very early 20s. I do "get" the whole comforting Harry argument - but I think it could have waited two minutes before they got outside before the hand holding began. I know there's been mention of other couples in the RF holding hands too, I feel exactly the same way about them. 

I think the thing I dislike about how H&M are now is that they constantly talk about people hating her because she is black. I honestly don't believe that is the case (and many people I reckon didn't even know Meghan was mixed race, I certainly didn't, and it didn't/doesn't matter to me or many others), I think people dislike the constant self-promotion. I know I don't like it - I didn't like it in Diana either. Actually Meghan seems similar in her behaviours to Diana to me - not that I am saying everything they say isn't true, I have no idea what is and what isn't, but just that there seems to be a small grain of truth in things which is then expanded. Of course we don't know what's true and what isn't - but for Meghan to say she didn't know who Harry was, nor indeed what is expected of a person in the royal family is, IMO, absolute tosh. I wouldn't think there are many people in the world who didn't know some of the constraints around being in the royal family, not least if you start dating a member of the RF! I know they are trying to make money as they don't earn from being in the RF now but it saddens me to see the headlines and how that will have affected their relationship with their family. 

Ultimately none of us know anything for sure, we can only speculate based on what we are prepared to believe about what we are told in the press and what we see with our own eyes.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Bertie'sMum said:


> Is this thread for real ??????????????????


Hehe, yes BM  I think it's much better not to be making less positive comments about the Royal Family on the more positive threads. I've not made comment there but have done so here.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrs Funkin said:


> Thanks @O2.0 I'm glad you've started this, so as not to derail the other threads.
> 
> I'm a great rule follower - always have been - and if I'm perfectly honest, I think H&M holding hands yesterday wasn't appropriate. They were leaving a very solemn ceremony and it seems almost to me like they are trying to antagonise the press, so that they can then complain about the press commenting about them? I obviously have no idea if they have that intention (or indeed any intention!), or if they just hold hands always. They did the same when they did the walkabout in Windsor. I almost also wonder whether it's, "Look at us, we hold hands, we are so in love" compared to W&C who don't. Plus William is the heir to the throne, so his behaviour will always be scrutinised - like the pictures from their dating days at Uni, when people are in uproar as they _gasp_ had fun in their very early 20s. I do "get" the whole comforting Harry argument - but I think it could have waited two minutes before they got outside before the hand holding began. I know there's been mention of other couples in the RF holding hands too, I feel exactly the same way about them.
> 
> ...


I agree about H&M I've said before that I am not a Royalist but these two really do seem to want the best of both worlds. I (& am sure many others) had no idea Meghan was mixed race initially. I also think the press initially were pretty good to her & it all seemed so positive. The only people who seem to go on about this are H&M & use it to show how they were victimised by their family the media, etc.


I think when they chose to leave the Royal duties then again that was up to them & tbh I would admire them for having the courage to step away if that's truly what they wanted but again there were questions over the costs for the cottage & whether they would still live there, tax payers money to be paid back etc ... IMO this should have been thought about before they made their decisions. If I choose to leave my job then I also lose all the perks that went with it.

I see them manipulating the media whilst crying about their privacy, I really don't understand it. if they want to move on & make their own money then why don't they get 'proper' jobs rather than tell all stories of Royal life I find that incredibly selfish & intrusive for the other members of their family. Personally I thought it was terrible of Meghan's father to speak to the press about her & publish personal letters, it have been incredibly hurtful so I don't understand how Harry thinks its fine for him to go blabbing to the media about his family & private conversations, etc. I have also read he has a 'tell all' book coming out .... but I suppose for people like this money talks!


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

…..I thought it was just… the offering and taking of support? Just Meghan saying to Harry “I’m here for you, and _with_ you.” 🤷🏻‍♀️


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Cleo38 said:


> I don't mind it but in context. I went to a pet dog training workshop a couple of years ago to spectate & a couple there held hands the entire few hours. It was nauseating, there was no need, they were middle aged so surely should be able to sit next to each other without touching each other.


OH and I are middle aged (or more ) and we do hold hands a good bit. He had a stroke last year and though he's mostly fully recovered, crowds and busy areas are still hard for him, so I tend to hold his arm and "steer" him that way.
We went to the dog show here in July, it's the biggest show in the southeast, massive venue, loud, lots of moving around. OH could either focus on what was going on, or focus on where he was walking but can't do both very well, so I held on to his arm so he could look around and use me for support and direction. 
I'm glad that as a couple we're very used to walking arm in arm so it doesn't feel like yet another adjustment we've had to make, it's just natural and happens to also be helpful.
I suppose we might have looked too OTT for some, but frankly I'm so past caring what strangers think and I'm certainly not important enough to have any protocol to follow! 



Psygon said:


> I feel like I've learned a lot more about the rights and wrongs of hand holding on the forums in the last 24 hours tho 😂


Seriously! Me too! 
Who knew it was such an important gesture?! 



Bertie'sMum said:


> Is this thread for real ??????????????????


I can't tell if you're actually annoyed or just surprised, but yes, for real. 
A couple days ago it was asked to keep negativity out of the Queen's thread and King Charles' thread but clearly people want to talk about M&H and if they should be holding hands or not so I figured why not create a thread for that. 
If it bothers you I guess you now know to avoid it.....


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

O2.0 said:


> OH and I are middle aged (or more ) and we do hold hands a good bit. He had a stroke last year and though he's mostly fully recovered, crowds and busy areas are still hard for him, so I tend to hold his arm and "steer" him that way.
> We went to the dog show here in July, it's the biggest show in the southeast, massive venue, loud, lots of moving around. OH could either focus on what was going on, or focus on where he was walking but can't do both very well, so I held on to his arm so he could look around and use me for support and direction.
> I'm glad that as a couple we're very used to walking arm in arm so it doesn't feel like yet another adjustment we've had to make, it's just natural and happens to also be helpful.
> I suppose we might have looked too OTT for some, but frankly I'm so past caring what strangers think and I'm certainly not important enough to have any protocol to follow!
> ...


I get that people do so for all sorts of reasons (& I also know that most people couldn't give a stuff what I think ) but this couple were so annoyingly clingy. Just sit down & leave each other alone FFS 

I suppose for me I just don't understand why people do this (unless out of need) it just seems so weird to me. When I was with my ex he had two kids & they were constantly wanting to hold my hand when we were out. People must have looked at me as some sort of monster as I was almost putting my hands in the air to avoid them .... I know that sounds terrible to some people but I just found it awful.

Having said that cuddling with my dogs is lovely & I have no problem showing them affection which makes me think of this meme which is so spot on


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

Holding hands...
Not for me. But I don’t mind other people doing it.
For some reason, whenever someone has tried to hold my hand I have found it creepy and wanted to squirm away.
If anyone knows why I would genuinely like to know.
I have a very clear memory when in my 20s of my then boyfriend trying to hold my hand and I quickly said NO! and changed the subject to the etiquette of drivers letting pedestrians cross before turning into a road, I mean where did that come from ?!
All I know is it cringed and freaked me out.
Upbringing maybe ?


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

This thread is making me think of that horrible experiment done on monkeys that I read about in one of my psych books where the monkeys were deprived of physical contact and measured the effect on serotonin levels - you guessed it, the ones with more physical contact had higher serotonin levels. 

So there you have it, it's not the weather in England that makes you depressed, it's your repressed attitude towards physical contact!


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

O2.0 said:


> This thread is making me think of that horrible experiment done on monkeys that I read about in one of my psych books where the monkeys were deprived of physical contact and measured the effect on serotonin levels - you guessed it, the ones with more physical contact had higher serotonin levels.
> 
> So there you have it, it's not the weather in England that makes you depressed, it's your repressed attitude towards physical contact!


Why is it that we stear clear of physical contact though, is it a religious thing ?


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

And why is it we can cuddle a dog but not our loved ones ?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I hold hands with my OH and also lean on his arm when I'm tired. I don't have a problem with people holding hands but really can't stand all this kissy kissy business. What are we , French ?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

O2.0 said:


> This thread is making me think of that horrible experiment done on monkeys that I read about in one of my psych books where the monkeys were deprived of physical contact and measured the effect on serotonin levels - you guessed it, the ones with more physical contact had higher serotonin levels.
> 
> So there you have it, it's not the weather in England that makes you depressed, it's your repressed attitude towards physical contact!


It's probably very true although my mum was very cuddly with us as children but said that both me & my sister became noticeably less so as we got older.

I find even a polite hand shake too much contact so am horrified by this latest 'foreign' influence of hugging & kissing people on meeting them. Personally I would rather we adopted the Japanese custom of bowing with no contact whatsoever 🤣🤣👍


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Siskin said:


> I sometimes feel she’s hanging in to him in case he makes a run for it😀


When I see them together , I always think of Mrs Merton and what she would say to Meghan , What attracted you to PRINCE Harry ?.  

Having said that , I'm glad Harry has his own family and I hope they are happy in the USA , I just wished they'd stay there.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Cleo38 said:


> I get that people do so for all sorts of reasons (& I also know that most people couldn't give a stuff what I think ) but this couple were so annoyingly clingy. Just sit down & leave each other alone FFS
> 
> I suppose for me I just don't understand why people do this (unless out of need) it just seems so weird to me. When I was with my ex he had two kids & they were constantly wanting to hold my hand when we were out. People must have looked at me as some sort of monster as I was almost putting my hands in the air to avoid them .... I know that sounds terrible to some people but I just found it awful.
> 
> ...


No crying at funerals either back in the day but ok to cry when your dog died.


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## Beth78 (Jul 4, 2019)

Cleo38 said:


> It's probably very true although my mum was very cuddly with us as children but said that both me & my sister became noticeably less so as we got older.
> 
> I find even a polite hand shake too much contact so am horrified by this latest 'foreign' influence of hugging & kissing people on meeting them. Personally I would rather we adopted the Japanese custom of bowing with no contact whatsoever 🤣🤣👍


My mum is and was a very cuddly person so as children we grew up with alot of physical contact. My dad is the complete opposite.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

kimthecat said:


> No crying at funerals either back in the day but ok to cry when your dog died.


This is totally me!!! I must be more British than I thought


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Did people notice the hand holding or did they read about it?
I didn't notice (watching bbc) and thought the upset was hilarious when I read about it here even though I'm another for no contact.

What I do find distasteful is the protesters being charged. I do think there's a time and a place for that sort of thing and this isn't it but to actually charge these people is a bit much.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Heh, I'm a very affectionate person, nothing I like more than a big cuddle with people - so much so that amongst a particular circle of friends I have a patented "Mrs F Cuddle"  So I have no issue cuddling people - in fact, I gave a little hug to the two ladies we spent the day alongside at the procession yesterday. I also will hold husband's hand whilst walking (not always) and a few of us at work give each other a little cuddle when we've not worked together for a while. I am a little repressed about PDAs such as kissing though - and don't like kissing or more (!!) on the telly/film (I struggled a LOT with the first season of Bridgerton, for example). So, to bring me back on topic, I have no issue at all with H&M holding hands normally, none at all, I just didn't feel in the situation yesterday that it was appropriate.


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

O2.0 said:


> I can't tell if you're actually annoyed or just surprised, but yes, for real.
> A couple days ago it was asked to keep negativity out of the Queen's thread and King Charles' thread but clearly people want to talk about M&H and if they should be holding hands or not so I figured why not create a thread for that.
> If it bothers you I guess you now know to avoid it.....


I'm not annoyed or surprised just saddened that so many find it OK to be so negative at such a sad time.
I remember once saying something negative about some personality or other and my Father saying to me "they speak highly of you too" he was of the school of "if you can't say something positive about someone then say nothing at all".
And, yes I do know how to avoid this topic.


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## bluesunbeam (Oct 21, 2021)

Cleo38 said:


> When I was with my ex he had two kids & they were constantly wanting to hold my hand when we were out. People must have looked at me as some sort of monster as I was almost putting my hands in the air to avoid them .... I know that sounds terrible


_Sounds _terrible?


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

I was really surprised that H&M hand holding was actually a conversation piece and a place of debate on social media, I've read some horrific comments about it, any other couple and it would have even seen for what it was, an innocent gesture of love and support.

To me hand holding offers comfort and support so a family member's funeral seems a place where that might be needed, they're human at the end of the day. 

It wasnt like they were snogging or had their hands on each others bottoms as they walked! Now that would have been inappropriate and more worthy of the attention they seem to have gotten just for holding hands. It's the media that has shown this as inappropriate and are making a big deal out of it, if they hadnt highlighted it then most people wouldnt have noticed or thought twice about it.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

LinznMilly said:


> …..I thought it was just… the offering and taking of support? Just Meghan saying to Harry “I’m here for you, and _with_ you.” 🤷🏻‍♀️



I think what ever Meghan does is for Meghan, and what makes her look good.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

bluesunbeam said:


> _Sounds _terrible?


As I said to some it is but for me holding hands with someone I have affection for is awful so with someone I don't is unbearable. Maybe some people would have just gotten on with it but I couldn't.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

I don't think the hand holding was appropriate in the hall, they could have waited until they got outside as has been mentioned. What gets on my nerves is Meghan is always hanging onto Harry, right from the early days. It doesn't look natural, it looks desperate. My OH will sometimes catch hold of my hand which I didn't mind when we were young but now I feel a bit embarrassed when he does it and find an excuse to drop it without hurting his feelings. My mam was very cuddly, I can't ever remember my dad hugging me, he used to pat me on the head or kiss me on the forehead, he didn't believe in kissing babies or children on the lips in case they caught something!


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

PawsOnMe said:


> I was really surprised that H&M hand holding was actually a conversation piece and a place of debate on social media, I've read some horrific comments about it, any other couple and it would have even seen for what it was, an innocent gesture of love and support.


I ventured on to Twitter last night and read some of the comments last night too. I know some people have said they don't think people are racist towards Meghan, but all I can say is you've not read some of the hatred that is directed towards her. It's genuinely disturbing and whatever people may think of an individual that's not right. 

I think a few more people should practice the whole if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Now to me, I would have thought that Lady Gabriella Windsor fainting in Westminster Hall would have been considered a bigger breach of etiquette than H&M holding hands. 

Fainting at a funeral is just not British, lol.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

Sometimes I see elderly couples walking and holding hands, and to be honest (coming from a family who did no displays of affection, public or otherwise) I’m just jealous.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

My parents are in their late 70s and hold hands at times. They always make sure that the last thing they say to each other as they leave is ‘love you’. My sister and her adult daughter link arms at times. Personally I’m not into either but thought the hand holding at the funeral was a sweet gesture and didn’t think anything of it.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

@Arny I noticed it straight away as I was watching it on the TV. I commented to Mr HB how out of place it looked as the others weren’t doing it. And I did say it’s typical Meghan to draw attention to herself again. 

At the end of the day she was/is and actress. She wants to be in the public eye. She also wants attention. She knows exactly how to get the focus on her - it’s the nature of her job.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Been reading up on British etiquette since this seems to be the issue at the heart of the hand holding drama. Some fascinating parts around mourning traditions - although nothing about showing emotion or hand holding that I can find written down (and I'm looking at things like Victorian guides to etiquette, ladies guides to etiquette etc).

I'm intrigued as to where people think this comes from, is it just unwritten rules? I wrongly assumed that since so many have said it that it must have been passed down through many generations and that it would appear in one of the various guides to etiquette that have been written.

However, I did find this, it's from A Manual of Etiquette for Ladies.










I figure everyone should stop slamming Meghan and Harry as it's not very British or lady like to do so, and therefore just not appropriate. 😉


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Psygon said:


> I ventured on to Twitter last night and read some of the comments last night too. I know some people have said they don't think people are racist towards Meghan, but all I can say is you've not read some of the hatred that is directed towards her. It's genuinely disturbing and whatever people may think of an individual that's not right.
> 
> I think a few more people should practice the whole if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.


This is the only place I see public opinion on anything really.
At this point she can't do right for doing wrong. Her mere presence seems to annoy people yet they'd be the first to comment if she didn't show up at all.


huckybuck said:


> @Arny I noticed it straight away as I was watching it on the TV. I commented to Mr HB how out of place it looked as the others weren’t doing it.


Well the others did have swords in the way 😁


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

Beth78 said:


> Why is it that we stear clear of physical contact though, is it a religious thing ?


Well in the US we blame anything that sounds repressive on the Puritans, and the Puritans did all come from England... 
Or the stuffy Victorian values? IDK? 



Bertie'sMum said:


> I'm not annoyed or surprised just saddened that so many find it OK to be so negative at such a sad time.
> I remember once saying something negative about some personality or other and my Father saying to me "they speak highly of you too" he was of the school of "if you can't say something positive about someone then say nothing at all".
> And, yes I do know how to avoid this topic.


So your response to people being negative is... to be negative about me trying to move the negativity away from the original threads on The Queen and King Charles? 
Okay then....



Jobeth said:


> My parents are in their late 70s and hold hands at times. They always make sure that the last thing they say to each other as they leave is ‘love you’. My sister and her adult daughter link arms at times.


My daughter and I do the same thing, it's really lovely, especially the mother daughter relationship as it can get so strained during those teenage years, it's nice to be adult women together with that sort of affection. My daughter is nearly 20 and when she comes home she'll still lay her head in my lap and let me scratch her head and play with her hair. I personally love those moments. Penny usually ends up in the cuddle too


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## bluesunbeam (Oct 21, 2021)

Beth78 said:


> Why is it that we stear clear of physical contact though, is it a religious thing ?





Beth78 said:


> And why is it we can cuddle a dog but not our loved ones ?


Insecurity would be favourite. Cuddle your dog or cat and the dog or cat pulls itself away from you and it's just being dog like or cat like- no harm done. Cuddle your OH or kids or a friend and they pull away from you and an insecure person could interpret that as being because they don't want or like you and are rejecting your affection.


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## TonyG (Oct 25, 2020)

I really don’t get this whole hatred of Meghan and to some extent, Harry.
There does seem to be a media witch-hunt against them and her especially.
What has she actually done that is so bad?
I agree the tv interview on Oprah etc wasn’t a good look but you could argue they were backed into that or lashing out after the constant campaign against them.
The Diana interview was similar, I recall.

Bottom line, we don’t know her at all, or what she’s really like as a person, but people are constantly seeing a bit on tv and deciding they don’t like her, ‘she’s doing it for the attention’ etc.
None of us know that. Poor woman is probably on tenterhooks the whole time because she’s scared whatever she does will be taken the wrong way.

I don’t suppose for one minute holding hands was meant to mean anything or gain sympathy, it probably just happened and was a natural expression of comfort, either for both or she felt the need for reassurance because she was so in the spotlight.
I’d imagine (but obviously don’t know) she feels quite insecure and like she’s walking on eggshells the whole time.

It seems to me they’re both trying to do the right thing, be there for the Queen and the family and perhaps mend a few bridges along the way.

Tbh it’s no one else’s business and although obviously they’re going to be in the news because they’re in the public eye, people should ease up a bit.
Ultimately it makes absolutely no difference to any of us what they do.

And don’t forget, for all her qualities, the queen could be hard when she wanted to be and there were certain ways she expected the family to behave and react.
Anything that went against that grain, such as Diana, or Meghan’s apparent attempt to get help for her mental health issues, was frowned upon, aided and abetted by the very straight laced and rigid protocol and tradition that binds (or bound) the family and the many palace officials who enforced that.
It does seem to me the culture was ‘their way or no way’ and while the Queen personally might have been sympathetic, she wouldn’t let anything disrupt the structure and protocols of the family.
In some ways I think she was a bigger slave to that than any of them and while she might have wished otherwise at times, she felt it was her duty to live by and uphold all that.

That’s only my thoughts and guesses, from what I’ve read etc, so I might be wrong but that’s my take on it.


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## TonyG (Oct 25, 2020)

Oh and by the way, you recall the slurs that do the rounds about Harry’s parentage?

Has anyone noticed the colour of the hair of Williams and Catherine’s two little boys…?


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## urbantigers (Apr 13, 2014)

I admit I had to watch the tv coverage several times before I even noticed H&M holding hands. 

I think that the dislike of Meghan comes simply from the perception that she encouraged Harry to abandon his duty to the monarchy. It’s like she got her royal wedding then they decided they didn’t want to be royals any more. The biggest crime you can commit if you’re a royal is to abandon your duty. And it’s a stark contrast to the Queen’s attitude. I think she was well liked to begin with.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

What annoys me about Meghan and Harry (and I think she has a big influence over him) is that they want it all their own way, as well as want to have their cake and eat it. They wanted privacy, yet they court the limelight. They wanted to opt out of royal duties, yet they want the privileges that these bring.

I thought the airing of their grievances on international TV was undignified and designed to cause damage to the Royal Family. And with the raised awareness and understanding we now have of mental health, I simply don't believe she couldn't have accessed support if she had wanted it.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

urbantigers said:


> I admit I had to watch the tv coverage several times before I even noticed H&M holding hands.
> 
> I think that the dislike of Meghan comes simply from the perception that she encouraged Harry to abandon his duty to the monarchy. It’s like she got her royal wedding then they decided they didn’t want to be royals any more. The biggest crime you can commit if you’re a royal is to abandon your duty. And it’s a stark contrast to the Queen’s attitude. I think she was well liked to begin with.


But why shouldn’t they if they are not happy? We all only get one life. The press have gone after her relentlessly even before they left from eating avacardos to holding her bump. I’m not a royalist so have stayed off these threads but when someone is saying the felt suicidal surely change is the best thing.

As for hand holding @O2.2 I’ve always done it when in relationships and sometimes me and Loki hold paws !


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

The press have gone at most of the Royal Family at one time or another and be nasty . Fergie , charles , Edward to name a few I don't have a problem with them leaving the Royal family and being in the US . I hope they stay there and are happy. I have a problem with their back stabbing .


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## TonyG (Oct 25, 2020)

urbantigers said:


> I admit I had to watch the tv coverage several times before I even noticed H&M holding hands.
> 
> I think that the dislike of Meghan comes simply from the perception that she encouraged Harry to abandon his duty to the monarchy. It’s like she got her royal wedding then they decided they didn’t want to be royals any more. The biggest crime you can commit if you’re a royal is to abandon your duty. And it’s a stark contrast to the Queen’s attitude. I think she was well liked to begin with.


That’s it though, the ‘perception’.
Perceived I’d guess from reading press coverage, which has veered towards witch hunt at times.
Maybe she did, but it isn’t for everybody, it wasn’t for Diana.
And Harry has always struck me as someone who didn’t like all the rigmarole. He had various charities he liked to support but being trotted out of the box for royal visits and events like Anne is, I don’t think that was his scene at all.
Again, only my perception though.

In real terms, whether Harry does his ‘duty’ or not makes no difference to us normal folks.
It was essentially between him and the Queen, and really of no material business of the rest of us.
He did an active tour of Afghanistan, which says a lot about his character to me.

I can see how Harry turning away from royal duties would have seemed like the ultimate crime to the Queen and I don’t think it was handled too well on both sides, certainly the tv interview wasn’t a great choice. But they’re relatively young and felt they wanted to have their say.
I’d suspect they regret it now.

Some of the ‘news’ coverage I’ve seen this week, especially the tabloids, appears to be clutching at straws.
Things such as ‘Harry and Meghan didn’t stay at Williams’s cottage’ for example.
Could be absolutely any reason for that which has nothing to do with a ‘snub’.
It might be full, they might have accepted or booked somewhere else, the location might be wrong, the timing might be wrong, no way of knowing.
I’m sure we’ve all gone to family events but opted to stay at a hotel because it’s better for us/more convenient, whatever.
I don’t dislike extended family, lol, but I wouldn’t want to be in their pockets for a few days either!

But as far as H&B goes, I think judge them on what happens going forward and not press gossip or ‘perception’.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

The stress caused by Harry and also Andrew , it must have afffected the Queen badly in her last years and I'm sure it didn't help her health . 

Yes , it will be interesting to see what happens going forward . They're famous for their Royal connection , and this puts them back on the radar world wide.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> The press have gone at most of the Royal Family at one time or another and be nasty . Fergie , charles , Edward to name a few I don't have a problem with them leaving the Royal family and being in the US . I hope they stay there and are happy. I have a problem with their back stabbing .


I do wonder tho how much of that (the backstabbing) would be happening if they hadn't been vilified by the press and on social media (and forums)? The opinions people have of the Royal family can only be driven by what the media choose to show us. None of us know them, none of us speak with them, none of us have hidden cameras in royal residences to see what really goes on.

There was a comment made on the Queen thread about how people are essentially sitting there waiting for Meghan to do something so they can be offended by it, I don't understand how people think this is the right way to think and act. If this was being done to you or someone you know and love you would be, quite rightly, upset and angry that people were acting this way towards you. If this was in a workplace and you saw this happening you'd call it bullying.

And yet it seems that it's quite alright to do it about a person in the public eye, and in particular with Meghan expected and even celebrated.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I have no issue about H&M leaving the RF and living and working in another country. What I do have an issue with is this continual moaning and groaning from Meghan how badly she was treated by the RF coupled with proven lies on the Oprah show. For instance, they didn’t get married in private 3 days before the wedding, if anything it was a blessing, Harry should have explained this to her, why didn’t he correct her. 
It just goes on and on, veiled threats of more to come. I cannot understand why they have this need to continually moan about the RF unless it’s to make money. Anyone who says they have come to not like Meghan very much over this is called a hater and a racist.
I am very happy for them to go to the US to enjoy a private life away from the media, but they seem to now spend all their time not living quietly and are constantly using the media


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## TonyG (Oct 25, 2020)

Psygon said:


> I do wonder tho how much of that (the backstabbing) would be happening if they hadn't been vilified by the press and on social media (and forums)? The opinions people have of the Royal family can only be driven by what the media choose to show us. None of us know them, none of us speak with them, none of us have hidden cameras in royal residences to see what really goes on.
> 
> There was a comment made on the Queen thread about how people are essentially sitting there waiting for Meghan to do something so they can be offended by it, I don't understand how people think this is the right way to think and act. If this was being done to you or someone you know and love you would be, quite rightly, upset and angry that people were acting this way towards you. If this was in a workplace and you saw this happening you'd call it bullying.
> 
> And yet it seems that it's quite alright to do it about a person in the public eye, and in particular with Meghan expected and even celebrated.


Good post!


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Siskin said:


> I have no issue about H&M leaving the RF and living and working in another country. What I do have an issue with is this continual moaning and groaning from Meghan how badly she was treated by the RF coupled with proven lies on the Oprah show. For instance, they didn’t get married in private 3 days before the wedding, if anything it was a blessing, Harry should have explained this to her, why didn’t he correct her.
> It just goes on and on, veiled threats of more to come. I cannot understand why they have this need to continually moan about the RF unless it’s to make money. Anyone who says they have come to not like Meghan very much over this is called a hater and a racist.
> I am very happy for them to go to the US to enjoy a private life away from the media, but they seem to now spend all their time not living quietly and are constantly using the media


This is spot on. She's been proved to be a liar time and time again, and he does nothing to correct her.

*we need an applause button, because like just isn't enough.


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## Dimwit (Nov 10, 2011)

Mrs Funkin said:


> Thanks @O2.0
> I'm a great rule follower - always have been - and if I'm perfectly honest, I think H&M holding hands yesterday wasn't appropriate. They were leaving a very solemn ceremony and it seems almost to me like they are trying to antagonise the press, so that they can then complain about the press commenting about them?


Did you also think it was inappropriate that Zara and Mike Tindall were holding hands, or Beatrice and Edoardo?
They all held hand, but all of the outrage and cries of 'trying to steal the limelight' seems to be directed at Harry and Meghan. 
Personally I am no fan of H&M but I do find the double standards and the people nitpicking for anything to criticise about the pair far more distasteful tasteful than them holding hands.

I also wonder why there was no similar outcry about Prince Andre stroking his daughter's arse on live TV - surely far more inappropriate than a husband and wife holding hands...



Cleo38 said:


> I see them manipulating the media whilst crying about their privacy, I really don't understand it. if they want to move on & make their own money then why don't they get 'proper' jobs rather than tell all stories of Royal life I find that incredibly selfish & intrusive for the other members of their family.


I agree, but they do seem to get a lot of unwarranted venom spewed at them by the British media and public. It's like people are determined to turn everything they do into a direct insult to the Queen.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

I have no vested interest in the Royal Family, but I am a fan of the Queen, not a blinded one, clearly she wasn't perfect, but I can't help but admire her strength and sense of duty. I personally find it inspiring. 

I don't have any particular feelings for the rest of them, as a woman I love looking at how Kate dresses and weirdly, or maybe not so weirdly, I'm loving seeing a very public woman not trying to pretend she isn't aging or isn't going to age. Other than color her hair, I can't see that she has done anything to herself and it's so damn refreshing to see that! 

As for H&M, I'm a little put off by the racism claims. I think it trivializes real racism that still exists and that bothers me. It also bothers me that she lies about stuff that is objectively verifiable. Like that she was an only child. I mean, maybe she _felt_ like an only child, so say that. 

That said, I'm quite sure she felt incredibly lonely and isolated in the UK and I'm sure Harry was very worried about her. I feel bad for both of them. Mainly because I think this was not the best idea, for them to get married. Love isn't enough to make a marriage work, that may sound callous, but I don't mean it that way at all. Compatibility matters too. I have many friends I love dearly but we would make a terrible couple. Life is hard enough as it is, being a royal looks exceptionally hard from where I'm standing, I wouldn't want that life.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Siskin said:


> I have no issue about H&M leaving the RF and living and working in another country. What I do have an issue with is this continual moaning and groaning from Meghan how badly she was treated by the RF coupled with proven lies on the Oprah show. For instance, they didn’t get married in private 3 days before the wedding, if anything it was a blessing, Harry should have explained this to her, why didn’t he correct her.
> It just goes on and on, veiled threats of more to come. I cannot understand why they have this need to continually moan about the RF unless it’s to make money. Anyone who says they have come to not like Meghan very much over this is called a hater and a racist.
> I am very happy for them to go to the US to enjoy a private life away from the media, but they seem to now spend all their time not living quietly and are constantly using the media


I do get that view, and understand why people dislike them - it's the whole deliberately watching and calling out any presumed indiscretion I don't get. If people dislike them so much, stop reading, watching, and posting about them. The media feeds itself... the more people talk about it, the more the media report about it. It's an endless cycle that you are all feeding into.

As for the hater and racist comment. I don't think I've ever come across anything on here I would say is racist, definite dislike... however, on other forums, Twitter, and even some of the press coverage I dont think the same is true. All of those views, racist or otherwise, are feeding into and informing the public opinion of her.

I also want to give an example of how the media paints a picture and how opinions are formed on what they are choosing to show you.

A few days ago there was some discussion on the walkabout that happened with Harry, Meghan, William, and Kate. I remember commentary about how you can tell a lot about a person by how they greet a dog in a crowd because Meghan was not once pictured showing any inclination to greet a dog. I'm not surprised on a forum of pet lovers this was something that people wanted to talk about.

And yet...










I'm sure this won't change any opinions, and that's not my intention, it's more to hopefully highlight that all those that commented did so based on what the media showed you. This only got coverage when the person who took a photo tweeted about it.

In my view, it's the same regarding the hand holding. The coverage focused on Harry and Meghan, it wasn't until people started commenting on how biased that view was that people started including other royals in the condemnation. But even then the conversation still rotates back to them. Given that Zara and Mike actually held hands while curtsying to the Queen's coffin, it does rather suggest the ire has been much more about H&M than any actual indiscretion.


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## TonyG (Oct 25, 2020)

Psygon said:


> I do get that view, and understand why people dislike them - it's the whole deliberately watching and calling out any presumed indiscretion I don't get. If people dislike them so much, stop reading, watching, and posting about them. The media feeds itself... the more people talk about it, the more the media report about it. It's an endless cycle that you are all feeding into.
> 
> As for the hater and racist comment. I don't think I've ever come across anything on here I would say is racist, definite dislike... however, on other forums, Twitter, and even some of the press coverage I dont think the same is true. All of those views, racist or otherwise, are feeding into and informing the public opinion of her.
> 
> ...


Another very good post! What I was wanting to say but couldn’t quite formulate it!

Ref dogs, imo that’s just a silly perception by some people. She might be a cat person!
I’m very wary about approaching strange dogs and won’t just make a beeline for the nearest canine.
I need to have some inkling I can trust the dog (and the owner) before stroking one.
In the unlikely event I was on a walk about like that, you probably wouldn’t see me touch a dog at all.
I’d probably smile at the dog and owner and if time allowed maybe chat and perhaps only then give it a stroke.

But by reacting like that, I’d no doubt be vilified as having some character flaw by anyone who observed it 🙄


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## TonyG (Oct 25, 2020)

Psygon said:


> I do get that view, and understand why people dislike them - it's the whole deliberately watching and calling out any presumed indiscretion I don't get. If people dislike them so much, stop reading, watching, and posting about them. The media feeds itself... the more people talk about it, the more the media report about it. It's an endless cycle that you are all feeding into.
> 
> As for the hater and racist comment. I don't think I've ever come across anything on here I would say is racist, definite dislike... however, on other forums, Twitter, and even some of the press coverage I dont think the same is true. All of those views, racist or otherwise, are feeding into and informing the public opinion of her.
> 
> ...


Would the Queen have preferred to see a family united in grief and a little humanity, or separated by mistrust and glaring daggers at each other?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Mrs Funkin said:


> I think the thing I dislike about how H&M are now is that they constantly talk about people hating her because she is black.


Well, when M first came on the scene, I could not believe how the papers and magazines gushed over her. I found it totally over the top and actually quite sickening. I have a very good memory, and I remember quite clearly headlines such as:

Meghan Mania on Liverpool Walkabout!
More Markle Sparkle!
Then after their marriage: Dazzling Duchess ''Wows'' in £8000 Versace Gown.

Now, these did not look to me one bit like a woman who was despised because of her colour. As far as one can see, she has not changed colour since those headlines appeared, so what went wrong? Why is she not still dazzling, sparkling and 'wowing'? I think people were a bit surprised that she did not introduce H to her father (and still hasn't, it seems) - OK he is far from perfect, but I think he was way out of his depth with the relationship between H and M and should have been advised what was and what was not acceptable. I started to have nagging doubts about her, to be honest, when she was seen writing messages on bananas. But now, it's the sheer hypocrisy of the pair, 'wanting privacy' but getting megabucks from Netflix (and others) to simply invade the same privacy they supposedly are guarding and for which they quit the RF. Doing the questionable Oprah interview when the Duke of Edinburgh was very ill (in fact, close to death). Telling us all to save the planet then jumping on a private plane to go to her baby shower in NY.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Thinking of Andrew. Back in the day , he wanted to marry an American girl , Koo Stark but wasnt allowed , becaused she had ben in a soft porn scene , very mild by today's standards. I wonder how his life would have a panned out if they had wed.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I have never really like M I think she used H vulnerability to her own ends and when she found out there was more to marrying royalty then she thought she tried to turn H against his own family.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I certainly think she had the Hollywood version on being royalty running through her brain. She thought about the clothes, the castles, the wealth, the adulation, the power (not necessarily in that order) but didn't think about the sometimes boring work she would be expected to undertake.

She didn't realise that royalty in this country isn't all powerful, they can't make laws, or have people they don't like thrown in the tower, or executed on a whim.

And when she found out the reality of her situation, she stamped her little feet and stomped off in a huff dragging H behind her like a dog on a lead.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

I'm sure this isn't intended but the subtle sexism people are using when talking about Meghan bothers me. 

Again, I get why people dislike her, but can we stop projecting things we have zero knowledge about into the discussion? Keep it to the stuff you know without making presumptions and judgments that just sound a bit petty, ridiculous - and sexist, as it seems to totally undermine any valid points. 

I mean - those bullying claims, looked pretty credible. Dislike her for that.
Constantly going to the media when decrying media coverage. Dislike her for that.
Lying, or being unaware of things. Sure, dislike her for that.

But this?

she stamped her little feet and stomped off in a huff dragging H behind her like a dog on a lead
she tried to turn H against his own family
she has a big influence over him
I sometimes feel she’s hanging in to him in case he makes a run for it
Meghan seems to be encouraging him
Really? So all the wrongs that these two have done are because she is demanding and an evil succubus? Because she's the person wearing the trousers? Am I the only one that thinks that's being subtly sexist?

I said before none of us know them, none of us speak to them or have a clue about their relationship, so I'm not sure why anyone feels its valid to drip feed this into the conversation - unless, shock horror, your view of them has been entirely driven by what the media has told you and may not actually be true?


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Psygon said:


> *she tried to turn H against his own family*


How is saying the above been sexist.

I'd have said the same if it was the other way round.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Reading twitter , I feel she is being used so that people can push the racism thing against the UK . They refer to her as black but she is mixed race and I know from the people I know of mixed race that they suffer from racism from both black and white people.
Also surprised how naive some can be and thinking she is all sweetness and light .

@Psygon , what do you think of her sisters book . Is it acceptable to quote from it ?

ETA the difference between Meghan and Harry is that Meghan chose and sought fame and Harry didn't , he was born in the lime light . Unfortunately , being famous is a double edged sword and there is always a lot of criticism , yes , famous people should have their privacy but unfortunately that doesn't happen . I wonder if Harry still wants to be in the limelight or would he prefer a quieter life . he looks so happy in the family at home photos but other photos . he doesn't always look so happy perhaps because being exposed to the press .


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Happy Paws2 said:


> How is saying the above been sexist.
> 
> I'd have said the same if it was the other way round.


Perhaps this was one of the weaker examples, but I still think it paints a picture of Meghan as the domineering woman. It feels like a sexist trope - in which a woman has managed to so enthrall a man that she is now making demands of him.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

kimthecat said:


> Reading twitter , I feel she is being used so that people can push the racism thing against the UK . They refer to her as black but she is mixed race and I know from the people I know of mixed race that they suffer from racism from both black and white people.
> Also surprised how naive some can be and thinking she is all sweetness and light .
> 
> @Psygon , what do you think of her sisters book . Is it acceptable to quote from it ?


Honestly, have no idea about her sister - what has her sister done and said? I mean I assume it would be - I'm making an assumption she lived with Meghan at some point so has first-hand knowledge? Do they still talk? Does she actually know how H&M live?


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Thank you for pointing out one Twitter photograph of Meghan patting a dog at some point during her walkabout

At the time I posted my comments I was watching continuous tv footage on BBC and Sky of the walk about in Windsor (for about 20 mins or so ) and saw her completely ignore a dog that was in front of her and shake the hand of its owner instead. My judgement of Meghan’s behaviour towards dogs was based on that media coverage. 

To be honest I don’t have the time nor the inclination to go off and trawl all the other media out there to see if there just happens to be anything to challenge my opinion before I comment on here. I have better things to do. 

Perhaps this oversight of Meghan’s was subtly pointed out to her and she made a point of patting one on the head during the next walk about. Who knows. 

Pointing out one other photograph you have found to try to contradict my observations won’t change my opinion I’m afraid. Perhaps that’s because I don’t behave in a ladylike manner as you also kindly pointed out. 

But I think I am quite a good judge of character at least that’s my opinion. I also think I give people a fair chance to begin with before I make up my mind about someone. 

We are all entitled to our own opinions and if I choose to make mine based on TV coverage I saw on the BBC instead of a photograph on Twitter then I am comfortable with that.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

You know, one of the things I've wondered - totally armchair psychology, but I wonder if on some subconscious level Harry looked at his dad, saw that his dad followed his family's wishes and married the more "suitable" bride, and how that all panned out. I wonder if Harry saw that and decided on some level to go the opposite direction and marry the woman his family would find the least suitable (American divorcee doesn't exactly have a great track record in the Royal family) in the hopes of having a different outcome than his dad. 

Thinking that makes me feel even more sorry for Meghan because on some level, Harry married her for the wrong reasons, or at least not for the best reasons. 
Of course I'm sure you could make a pop psychology argument that Meghan married Harry for the wrong reasons too... 

Either way, I don't see the marriage lasting and that alone is sad


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Deguslave said:


> the reality of her situation


Like, say, shaking hands with working class people in the pouring rain in Halifax?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

O2.0 said:


> You know, one of the things I've wondered - totally armchair psychology, but I wonder if on some subconscious level Harry looked at his dad, saw that his dad followed his family's wishes and married the more "suitable" bride, and how that all panned out. I wonder if Harry saw that and decided on some level to go the opposite direction and marry the woman his family would find the least suitable (American divorcee doesn't exactly have a great track record in the Royal family) in the hopes of having a different outcome than his dad.
> 
> Thinking that makes me feel even more sorry for Meghan because on some level, Harry married her for the wrong reasons, or at least not for the best reasons.
> Of course I'm sure you could make a pop psychology argument that Meghan married Harry for the wrong reasons too...
> ...


I have the horrible feeling you could be right. I worry about Harry as it will destroy him if indeed his marriage does break up


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

Calvine said:


> Like, say, shaking hands with working class people in the pouring rain in Halifax?


No, that she and H were minor royals.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

huckybuck said:


> Thank you for pointing out one Twitter photograph of Meghan patting a dog at some point during her walkabout
> 
> At the time I posted my comments I was watching continuous tv footage on BBC and Sky of the walk about in Windsor (for about 20 mins or so ) and saw her completely ignore a dog that was in front of her and shake the hand of its owner instead. My judgement of Meghan’s behaviour towards dogs was based on that media coverage.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you feel I was making a point about you. I deliberately didn't quote anyone, as it wasn't intended as a dig, but simply as an example to show how the media helps to inform an opinion. And that sometimes that opinion can be biased.

I didn't go hunting for the picture, given all the royal news I've read this week it appeared on my Google homepage this morning as a story in the independent. I thought it was a good example of how the media is projecting a view that may or may not be correct, and I thought it was a topical example that people could relate to as it had been discussed already.

Maybe naivly I thought it might start a discussion about is it right or fair that the media is doing that, and are we generally OK with that. Seems I was wrong. Although I'm sure I've seen similar sentiment in other threads - maybe in COVID discussions? 

I feel like maybe you are going through my posts and looking for insult directed at you when none is intended.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> being famous is a double edged sword


Remember when Kate Middleton (as she then was) first came on the scene, she put up with a lot of negative assessment, even that her mother, Carole, had worked as . . . a flight attendant! Shock, horror, gulp. I believe in addition to this, at one point Carole had lived in Southall (more shock and horror). Kate just rose above it, but the sniping seemed to go on until she and William confirmed that they were a couple. Kate and her parents have not put a foot wrong and really not given the papers anything salacious to write about them. I imagine the Queen was very pleased with William's choice of wife. I think the papers were hoping and praying for something to write about Carole's brother Gary as there were a couple of titbits from his past, but he has kept his head down, it seems.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

huckybuck said:


> Thank you for pointing out one Twitter photograph of Meghan patting a dog at some point during her walkabout
> 
> At the time I posted my comments I was watching continuous tv footage on BBC and Sky of the walk about in Windsor (for about 20 mins or so ) and saw her completely ignore a dog that was in front of her and shake the hand of its owner instead. My judgement of Meghan’s behaviour towards dogs was based on that media coverage.
> 
> ...


I’ve seen another photo of Harry making quite a fuss of the dog on a golden retriever page I belong to, presumably Meghan joined in. I know nothing as to where and when the photo was taken, presumably when meeting the crowds with William and Catherine. Photos are just a moment in time and can be shown in a positive or detrimental light depending on the narrative. Someone could easily have said that Meghan only paid attention to the dog and didn’t speak to anyone in the crowd. 
What I base my assessments of people are by meeting them if that is possible, and by watching or listening to them. Meghan is only accessible on tv for the likes of me and my opinions can only be based on that. Yes newspapers do have a tendency to interfere with my own judgement, but I try to watch and hear the person if I can and not base my opinions based on what someone else has written.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Calvine said:


> Remember when Kate Middleton (as she then was) first came on the scene, she put up with a lot of negative assessment, even that her mother, Carole, had worked as . . . a flight attendant! Shock, horror, gulp. I believe in addition to this, at one point Carole had lived in Southall (more shock and horror). Kate just rose above it, but the sniping seemed to go on until she and William confirmed that they were a couple. Kate and her parents have not put a foot wrong and really not given the papers anything salacious to write about them. I imagine the Queen was very pleased with William's choice of wife. I think the papers were hoping and praying for something to write about Carole's brother Gary as there were a couple of titbits from his past, but he has kept his head down, it seems.


I do remember all that, a lot was really unkind and mostly down to total snobbishness. Catherine did exactly the right thing, she kept her own council and ignored it all. It must have hurt her desperately at times, but you wouldn’t have known it. She will make a wonderful princess of Wales and in the fullness of time a great Queen Consort.
Uncle Gary played a blinder, just ignored it all with a cheerful grin. I’ve no doubt he was asked to, but he didn’t have to


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Psygon said:


> Honestly, have no idea about her sister - what has her sister done and said? I mean I assume it would be - I'm making an assumption she lived with Meghan at some point so has first-hand knowledge? Do they still talk? Does she actually know how H&M live?


Sorry , her half sister who is older than her. I don;t think they talk now but she did live with her and her dad for some years , I didnt finish reading it but it was interesting reading about the family and about their life in California and what 
it was iike there . Her sistr is Samantha Markle and the title of the book is The Dairy of princess Pushy's sister so Im guessing that didnt go down well.  She's been accused of cashing in which of course she is but that doesnt mean to say its lies. 

Her Dad too accused of cashing in , he has been very sick and not well off , perhaps has to pay for treatment , Apparently , he did pay for her college fees and other things so i hope that she can forgive him .


----------



## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Siskin said:


> I have the horrible feeling you could be right. I worry about Harry as it will destroy him if indeed his marriage does break up


Oh I hope not .


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I do find it very sad that Meghan reportedly has not been to see her father. Of course she may have done in private. If she hasn’t then she really needs to think about it a bit more, he may not have long left


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Psygon said:


> I'm sorry you feel I was making a point about you. I deliberately didn't quote anyone, as it wasn't intended as a dig, but simply as an example to show how the media helps to inform an opinion. And that sometimes that opinion can be biased.
> 
> I didn't go hunting for the picture, given all the royal news I've read this week it appeared on my Google homepage this morning as a story in the independent. I thought it was a good example of how the media is projecting a view that may or may not be correct, and I thought it was a topical example that people could relate to as it had been discussed already.
> 
> ...


You didn’t need to quote me - I was the one who bought up the dog incident. I had also mentioned funeral etiquette which you then chose to respond with your comment about lady like behaviour. 

I am certainly not going through your posts looking for insults. I don’t need to.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

huckybuck said:


> You didn’t need to quote me - I was the one who bought up the dog incident. I had also mentioned funeral etiquette which you then chose to respond with your comment about lady like behaviour.
> 
> I am certainly not going through your posts looking for insults. I don’t need to.


But others were discussing both issues?

I didn't look back at who posted any of the dog comments. The comments that stuck in my head were the whole tell a lot about someone, and also someone said something about a dog biting her hand off. I just thought the first one was more appropriate for the context. And I thought a couple of people echoed the sentiment and talked about it. (ETA: I have now been back to look, and yes maybe you started the conversation but others definitely did chime in and echo it. Maybe I didn't realize you were the only person who watched it. It's not entirely clear from the posts). 

I don't think it really matters what I say tho...


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> I do remember all that, a lot was really unkind and mostly down to total snobbishness. Catherine did exactly the right thing, she kept her own council and ignored it all. It must have hurt her desperately at times, but you wouldn’t have known it. She will make a wonderful princess of Wales and in the fullness of time a great Queen Consort.
> Uncle Gary played a blinder, just ignored it all with a cheerful grin. I’ve no doubt he was asked to, but he didn’t have to


Good old Uncle Gazza, eh! Not sure what it was, but he had a bit of previous 'form' in some respect which delighted the press and out of which they were hoping to elicit some jaw-dropping headlines. Some suggested that he would not be invited to the wedding and were clearly hoping he would gatecrash the event, to Kate's everlasting shame. He turned up smartly dressed and I've never heard a word about him since.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

I’ve been following this thread with great interest. I see things from both sides.

It’s easy to judge people we’ve never met. Even easier to judge when our perceptions of certain people are “guided” by media coverage. Harder to think for ourselves and not be swayed by outside sources. And I include myself in that.

I don’t have any strong view one way or the other on Harry or Meghan. I don’t think she realised fully what she was getting into when she married Harry. I don’t think anything Harry or any other royal said could have fully prepared her for the reality of life as a member of the Royal family. And I think the same could be said for Catherine. The main difference is, one had what it takes to rise to the challenge, and has become our darling and the other is, sadly, drowning and while she does have her own fans and supporters, seems to be damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. Perhaps it’s a culture thing, I don’t know.

I do think the hypocrisy surrounding the media and bemoaning the lack of privacy while courting the media, distasteful. But I do think holding her husband’s hand as they walked out of church was simply a show of support.

I would hate to have my every movement scrutinised and put under the microscope the way theirs are. I would hate to be criticised for stroking a dog, or not stroking a dog, for holding my partner’s hand at the end of a service commemorating his late grandmother, or not holding my partner’s hand at the end of a service commemorating his late grandmother. I can’t imagine how much mental energy it takes to second guess every decision, every action, made under the spotlight of the - largely resentful - media of a foreign country.

I’m not religious, but the phrase “judge lest ye be judged” springs to mind.

Climbing off my soapbox now.


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## TonyG (Oct 25, 2020)

LinznMilly said:


> I’ve been following this thread with great interest. I see things from both sides.
> 
> It’s easy to judge people we’ve never met. Even easier to judge when our perceptions of certain people are “guided” by media coverage. Harder to think for ourselves and not be swayed by outside sources. And I include myself in that.
> 
> ...


Completely agree with all that. I’m no Meghan fan, much like you I don’t really have strong feelings about the pair either way.
It’s the judging and the instant hatred that I abhor.
And yes I’m just as guilty. Mention Jeremy Corbyn and my head explodes! Then again his policies are there to be seen, but the press twisted things against him too, I should think.

But with Meghan and as you say, it’s another level and not even based on things she said. 
Hold a hand, be pilloried, don’t stroke a dog, how evil.
She literally must be thinking WTF am I supposed to do right in this country and I strongly suspect wants to get away as soon as she possibly can and I wouldn’t blame her.

In an ideal world after the funeral all the royals would go away to Sandringham or Balmoral or whatever, including the Sussexes, and take a bit of quiet time to heal and reflect.
It probably won’t happen and they’ll probably fly back to the States Tuesday and no doubt that will be wrong too 🙄


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Does this come under royal chatter 💀









He should be facing real justice of course but at least his reputation is ruined worldwide and he’s a laughing stock


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

TonyG said:


> Completely agree with all that. I’m no Meghan fan, much like you I don’t really have strong feelings about the pair either way.
> It’s the judging and the instant hatred that I abhor.
> And yes I’m just as guilty. Mention Jeremy Corbyn and my head explodes! Then again his policies are there to be seen, but the press twisted things against him too, I should think.
> 
> ...


After the Oprah interview, the talk of a tell all book, and the interview she gave the other week, I doubt the family will risk getting into an in depth conversation with them.

But, if they do fly home early next week, you can't really blame them, they have been apart from their children for longer than they planned.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> Thinking of Andrew. Back in the day , he wanted to marry an American girl , Koo Stark but wasnt allowed , becaused she had ben in a soft porn scene , very mild by today's standards. I wonder how his life would have a panned out if they had wed.


Then he ended up with Fergie who was - well, we all know the story of the toe-sucking that Philip never forgave her for. But as a couple, she and Andrew seem to be devoted parents (and now grandparents).


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Dimwit said:


> Did you also think it was inappropriate that Zara and Mike Tindall were holding hands, or Beatrice and Edoardo?
> They all held hand, but all of the outrage and cries of 'trying to steal the limelight' seems to be directed at Harry and Meghan.


Absolutely I do - and I think I actually said that elsewhere on the thread.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Deguslave said:


> I certainly think she had the Hollywood version on being royalty running through her brain. She thought about the clothes, the castles, the wealth, the adulation, the power (not necessarily in that order) but didn't think about the sometimes boring work she would be expected to undertake.
> 
> She didn't realise that royalty in this country isn't all powerful, they can't make laws, or have people they don't like thrown in the tower, or executed on a whim.
> 
> And when she found out the reality of her situation, she stamped her little feet and stomped off in a huff dragging H behind her like a dog on a lead





Deguslave said:


> I certainly think she had the Hollywood version on being royalty running through her brain. She thought about the clothes, the castles, the wealth, the adulation, the power (not necessarily in that order) but didn't think about the sometimes boring work she would be expected to undertake.
> 
> She didn't realise that royalty in this country isn't all powerful, they can't make laws, or have people they don't like thrown in the tower, or executed on a whim.
> 
> And when she found out the reality of her situation, she stamped her little feet and stomped off in a huff dragging H behind her like a dog on a lead.


Either 'the Hollywood version' - Grace Kelly was an acclaimed and famous actress who became a "fairytale princess" after giving up her successful career to marry Rainier - maybe she was expecting people to see her as that - maybe another Diana.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Deguslave said:


> No, that she and H were minor royals.


Harry was a senior royal, which is why it was such a big deal when he left.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Calvine said:


> Then he ended up with Fergie who was - well, we all know the story of the toe-sucking that Philip never forgave her for. But as a couple, she and Andrew seem to be devoted parents (and now grandparents).


I feel for Beatrice and Eugenie , the embarrassment their parents have put them through  But they do all love each other and I hope they stay strong.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

just watched a film clip of The Royal family at Sandringham for Beatrice's christening. Diana , Margaret , the Queen Mother and Prince Phillip all there . The whole family look so happy. I miss those days. 😢


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

Just now watching the Earl and Countess of Wessex on a walk about and wondering why he isn't shaking hands even though a few offered their hands out. Maybe scared of germs. His wife on the other side is happily shaking hands with everyone.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

Oh sorry he shook 2 people's hands.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

There is an article in The Guardian this afternoon called "Trial by TikTok: Camilla and Meghan targeted with abuse after Queens death"

Essentially it's reporting on how both have been targeted with a huge amount of slurs and misinformation since her death (on TikTok it looks like Camilla has been really targeted). A lot of it hateful, a lot of it entirely untrue. Also reports on a conspiracy theory that's been circulating about how the queen was murdered by Hillary Clinton. 😮

It's disturbing to read about how essentially posting all this hate is about generating clicks and revenue.

It ends with “This is bigger than a debate about the royals. If we see something more frequently we think it’s more likely to be true. That can shape young minds in a really dangerous way.”









Trial by TikTok: Camilla and Meghan targeted with abuse after Queen’s death


Posts containing slurs and misinformation have been liked by millions on social media




www.theguardian.com





I'm posting as I feel it is relevant to what we were discussing yesterday.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Social media on this and other subjects are just getting out of hand. as you rightly say, if it’s seen often enough then it gets believed. Programs like The Crown, who refuse to put up a disclaimer saying that it is largely imagined, get thought of as a documentary by other countries also fuel the fire of misinformation and hate.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Siskin said:


> Social media on this and other subjects are just getting out of hand. as you rightly say, if it’s seen often enough then it gets believed. Programs like The Crown, who refuse to put up a disclaimer saying that it is largely imagined, get thought of as a documentary by other countries also fuel the fire of misinformation and hate.


Indeed - I thought the bit in the article about the fact a lot of things started being posted about Camilla due to The Crown to be a bit disappointing. I haven't watched The Crown, what's the reasoning behind no disclaimer? Tho I wonder if any reasoning would actually make sense.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I find the obsession with celebrities to be really bizarre. I don't know much about Meghan and the royal family nor do I have much interest in learning about them, especially their private lives.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

I’ve started watching the Crown and absolutely loving it so far. There are bits that I really hope are true and bits that I really hope aren’t. But at the end of the day it’s a TV programme. 

It’s not even a reality TV programme which I sometimes also often wonder how real they are!

It’s worrying that people can’t differentiate between a TV programme or film and real life. I do wonder if people aren’t as bright or clever these days as it’s a bit odd.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

huckybuck said:


> I’ve started watching the Crown and absolutely loving it so far. There are bits that I really hope are true and bits that I really hope aren’t. But at the end of the day it’s a TV programme.
> 
> It’s not even a reality TV programme which I sometimes also often wonder how real they are!
> 
> It’s worrying that people can’t differentiate between a TV programme or film and real life. I do wonder if people aren’t as bright or clever these days as it’s a bit odd.


I've never watched soaps (in fact I've only got a TV because my son bought me one for Christmas four years ago), but yes, you are right. I have worked with several people who seemed to live their lives through soaps and couldn't wait to tell me what someone in Eastenders had done or said the previous evening or what might be about to happen in Coronation St. tomorrow. 
Totally unconnected, but just read that several ''celebs'' and MPs (Holly Willoughby, Phillip Schofield, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Angela Rayner [to name but a few]) were allowed to jump the queue. Allegedly, David Beckham was offered the chance but said no, he would join the queue like everyone else. So several numpties have said, (Yeah, well, he just did it for publicity). I'm sure he could find easier ways to court publicity if he really needed to. I always thought he was a decent guy (especially when compared to some of the footballers we see today).


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Psygon said:


> Indeed - I thought the bit in the article about the fact a lot of things started being posted about Camilla due to The Crown to be a bit disappointing. I haven't watched The Crown, what's the reasoning behind no disclaimer? Tho I wonder if any reasoning would actually make sense.


The producer or director not sure which who just happens to be anti royalist, says that people will know it’s not a true record which is why he saw no reason to say so. Obviously it has been shown that this assumption is not correct. Make of that what you will.

I have watched it, but feel no need to watch anymore as it has just become laughable. Apparently the company are looking for a young man that looks like Prince William for the series after the one that’s due to be released soon.


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## Deguslave (12 mo ago)

I've never been a fan of Beckham, or football in general, but I'm sure if he was looking for publicity there are far easier ways than standing in a queue for 13 hours straight and not drawing attention to himself. From what I've seen, he seems like a decent bloke.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

I don't think anyone recognised him until the camers turned up. People were just filing past and not paying attention or pestering him for autographs. He gave his reasons why he was there so good on him.


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## TonyG (Oct 25, 2020)

Calvine said:


> I've never watched soaps (in fact I've only got a TV because my son bought me one for Christmas four years ago), but yes, you are right. I have worked with several people who seemed to live their lives through soaps and couldn't wait to tell me what someone in Eastenders had done or said the previous evening or what might be about to happen in Coronation St. tomorrow.
> Totally unconnected, but just read that several ''celebs'' and MPs (Holly Willoughby, Phillip Schofield, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Angela Rayner [to name but a few]) were allowed to jump the queue. Allegedly, David Beckham was offered the chance but said no, he would join the queue like everyone else. So several numpties have said, (Yeah, well, he just did it for publicity). I'm sure he could find easier ways to court publicity if he really needed to. I always thought he was a decent guy (especially when compared to some of the footballers we see today).


I very much doubt he needs any extra money either!


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

I don't see why any so called celebs should be allowed to queue jump. Their grief is no different to anyone else's, 

And another thought why was the queue not given an online booking system? One hour slots would of eliminated this need to queue for so many hours. 
I wonder if this public outpouring of grief in an never ending queue makes more impact and better tv across the world.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

I also think it spirals @Kaily - and no doubt a bit of “sheep” mentality for some people? I dunno, maybe FOMO too?


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

Mrs Funkin said:


> I also think it spirals @Kaily - and no doubt a bit of “sheep” mentality for some people? I dunno, maybe FOMO too?


There is a professor of politics (I think) doing research with the queue, looking at demographics and motivations for being there. I don't think he has researched with that many people so far (think it was a couple of hundred) but it seems in terms of motivations it's as much about the queue as it is about wanting to pay respects/give thanks. I think it even said in the article I read that people in it aren't necessarily royalists either.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

reposting


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Kaily said:


> And another thought why was the queue not given an online booking system? One hour slots would of eliminated this need to queue for so many hours.
> I wonder if this public outpouring of grief in an never ending queue makes more impact and better tv across the world.


1. I don't think that would work, as people are just deciding to go, plus the computer would just crash under the pressure and then people would still have to queue to show tickets.

2. That's a but cynical isn't it.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Deguslave said:


> I've never been a fan of Beckham, or football in general, but I'm sure if he was looking for publicity there are far easier ways than standing in a queue for 13 hours straight and not drawing attention to himself. From what I've seen, he seems like a decent bloke.


I'm more cynical, he is all about brand Beckham & this has taken a battering recently as he has been actively promoting Qatar despite concerns over it's human rights record (laws prohibiting same sex relationships, its treatment of women & migrant labourers). For £150 million David Beckham seemed to put his ethics to one side (obviously not that important to him) as he obviously needs the money


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

As someone who wanted to go to pay my respects right from the start I think seeing the coverage of the people who have actually made the effort to go is what is increasing the “want” to be there nothing else.

It’s not FOMO or sheep mentality or anything. Hearing people say it’s worth the long wait when perhaps you are in two minds about the length of time it takes has a lot of impact.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

margy said:


> Just now watching the Earl and Countess of Wessex on a walk about and wondering why he isn't shaking hands even though a few offered their hands out. Maybe scared of germs. His wife on the other side is happily shaking hands with everyone.


Edward is quite shy and not as at ease with crowds. Apparently he finds it hard. Sophie worked in hospitality .


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

huckybuck said:


> As someone who wanted to go to pay my respects right from the start I think seeing the coverage of the people who have actually made the effort to go is what is increasing the “want” to be there nothing else.
> 
> It’s not FOMO or sheep mentality or anything. Hearing people say it’s worth the long wait when perhaps you are in two minds about the length of time it takes has a lot of impact.


I would like to have gone, but just getting there would be tricky as the trains on the east coast aren’t running to well due to an ’issue’. I could have gone in on the disabled queue I guess, but for some reason I think I would have liked to join The Queue. Not because of some kind of missing out or sheep mentality or anything else that some are trying to come up with, but more as a sort of pilgrimage, to remember my queen. Yet I wouldn’t be have been able to stand for that long let along walk it, so I just watch others and try to imagine myself there.


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

huckybuck said:


> As someone who wanted to go to pay my respects right from the start I think seeing the coverage of the people who have actually made the effort to go is what is increasing the “want” to be there nothing else.
> 
> It’s not FOMO or sheep mentality or anything. Hearing people say it’s worth the long wait when perhaps you are in two minds about the length of time it takes has a lot of impact.


To be very clear HB, this wasn’t aimed at you at all! I was talking more about people who were not ever thinking of going/weren’t interested until The Queue started to almost have a life of its own.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Mrs Funkin said:


> To be very clear HB, this wasn’t aimed at you at all! I was talking more about people who were not ever thinking of going/weren’t interested until The Queue started to almost have a life of its own.


I know lovely.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Mrs Funkin said:


> Heh, I'm a very affectionate person, nothing I like more than a big cuddle with people - so much so that amongst a particular circle of friends I have a patented "Mrs F Cuddle"  So I have no issue cuddling people - in fact, I gave a little hug to the two ladies we spent the day alongside at the procession yesterday. I also will hold husband's hand whilst walking (not always) and a few of us at work give each other a little cuddle when we've not worked together for a while. I am a little repressed about PDAs such as kissing though - and don't like kissing or more (!!) on the telly/film (I struggled a LOT with the first season of Bridgerton, for example). So, to bring me back on topic, I have no issue at all with H&M holding hands normally, none at all, I just didn't feel in the situation yesterday that it was appropriate.


Another thing I find odd is clapping at a funeral. The first time I saw it was at Diana's funeral and it struck me as somewhat inappropriate when compared with maintaining a dignified and respectful silence - I always associate clapping with congratulations for something - like when a football team does well and does a lap of honour in a coach round their home town and their supporters clap and cheer. Not sure if clapping is the new normal (I don't go to many funerals, not ghoulish or anything) but I find it somewhat inexpedient.


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Calvine said:


> Another thing I find odd is clapping at a funeral.


I agree.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

Me too I think silence is more respectful but heard the crowd make a noise outside Westminster at the end of the service and thought how lovely ,they are sort of being included in it all.


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## Linda Weasel (Mar 5, 2014)

I understand it. It’s ordinary people showing their appreciation of a life well lived.

Hope I go to my rest to a round of applause.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't think anyone put a foot wrong today. Everyone deserves a round of applause for the dignity, decorum and the solemnity of the whole occasion. The members of the Royal family have all been so stoical in the face of such public mourning. The armed forces have all played their parts with absolute perfection.
A beautiful tribute to Her Majesty.


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## Pawscrossed (Jul 2, 2013)

I thought it was all very dignified and I'm all for hand holding. Let's see what the gutter press bring tomorrow.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Calvine said:


> Another thing I find odd is clapping at a funeral. The first time I saw it was at Diana's funeral and it struck me as somewhat inappropriate when compared with maintaining a dignified and respectful silence - I always associate clapping with congratulations for something - like when a football team does well and does a lap of honour in a coach round their home town and their supporters clap and cheer. Not sure if clapping is the new normal (I don't go to many funerals, not ghoulish or anything) but I find it somewhat inexpedient.


I didn’t like the clapping but if they have to make a noise I rather that than the cheering.


Felt for the guy who got whipped in the face by the horses tail.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Last night I couldn't get to sleep, I couldn't get the sound of the massed bands music out of my head, every time I settled down I could hear and see them march up the long walk.


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Last night I couldn't get to sleep, I couldn't get the sound of the massed bands music out of my head, every time I settled down I could hear and see them march up the long walk.


I was exactly the same. The tunes kept going through my head. I had weird dreams too once I did get off. Feel drained this morning.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

huckybuck said:


> I was exactly the same. The tunes kept going through my head. I had weird dreams too once I did get off. * Feel drained this morning.*



That's just how I fell. Haven knows how Charles and Anne are feeling this morning it's been such a ordeal them, much more than the rest of them family.

I believe they are having a weeks mourning without any engagements.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Pawscrossed said:


> I thought it was all very dignified and I'm all for hand holding. Let's see what the gutter press bring tomorrow.
> 
> View attachment 577540


Was scrolling down some stories on a tabloid website and had a chuckle to myself where there was one story about how Kate was giving a “loving hand” on the back on the children’s backs during the funeral and then right under it a story about how Meghan was “not holding Harry’s hand after “outrage” when they last did”.

it’s all quite laughable about how the press will find anything to write Meghan in a bad light. It’s just so glaring obvious that I wonder how people fall for it!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

It was a very long day indeed for William's children; they behaved beautifully.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

stuaz said:


> Was scrolling down some stories on a tabloid website and had a chuckle to myself where there was one story about how Kate was giving a “loving hand” on the back on the children’s backs during the funeral and then right under it a story about how Meghan was “not holding Harry’s hand after “outrage” when they last did”.
> 
> it’s all quite laughable about how the press will find anything to write Meghan in a bad light. It’s just so glaring obvious that I wonder how people fall for it!


Charlotte is a little girl whose mother would obviously want to make sure she was not overwhelmed by the occasion.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Calvine said:


> Charlotte is a little girl whose mother would obviously want to make sure she was not overwhelmed by the occasion.


I am aware of that, the point I was trying to make is that I think Kate could drag the kids around by there hair and the media would probably report it as “loving parent providing discipline”. As opposed to “Meghan leaves kids behind instead bringing them with her” which was one headline I saw.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Calvine said:


> It was a very long day indeed for William's children; they behaved beautifully.


Yes they were, I was impressed. What a lovely family they are. Kate and William are such a lovely couple. I feel the future of the Monachy will be in good hands.

Twitteratti attacking Kate for wearing jewellery not realising the history behind it


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Calvine said:


> It was a very long day indeed for William's children; they behaved beautifully.


Yes they were, I was impressed. What a lovely family they are. Kate and William are such a lovely couple. I feel the future of the Monachy will be in good hands.

Twitteratti numpties attacking Kate for wearing jewellery not realising the history behind it 

They have been vile about the Royal Family and the UK too.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

I dont always believe what the press say but I did have a titter at a thread on Twitter where they showed the photo of Meghan wiping away a tear at the funeral and then a film clip of her laughing and saying how easy it was to cry for the cameras I'm assuming its not faked.


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

kimthecat said:


> They have been vile about the Royal Family and the UK too.


It’s quite nasty isn’t it all these internet edgelords celebrating the death of an old lady. It’s extremely fashionable to hate the west right now and Britain in particular so it’s all fair game. I don’t even like the royals and I know we have an unpleasant colonial history to say the least but name a country that hasn’t done terrible things in the past. What about the countries that are committing blatant human rights abuses _right now?_ It amuses me that it’s almost all affluent young westerners (Americans, Brits etc) who are always moaning on Twitter about how terrible our respective countries are. They honestly have no idea how good they have it. And we’re not perfect, there are injustices in our society we should fight against, god knows this government is a total shower but these kids are usually covert tories anyway. They definitely don’t want _their_ mummy and daddy’s wealth redistributed lol. 
They claim to speak for the working class but if a working class person dares disagree with their politics they’re a ‘gammon’.
They’re so privileged they don’t even realise that it’s a luxury to be able to eat themselves to a state of morbid obesity, but they think society is fatphobic if they’ve outgrown a standard MRI machine.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

stuaz said:


> it’s all quite laughable about how the press will find anything to write Meghan in a bad light. It’s just so glaring obvious that I wonder how people fall for it!


I don't care what the press says, it's what's come out of that vile mouth that I have issue with, and I wouldn't give a toss about that if she had not hurt an old lady in the last years of her life.

I've never forgiven one of my sisters and her family for doing exactly the same to my mother in her last years. 11years has passed and I still haven't spoken to them and nor do I want to


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

picaresque said:


> It’s quite nasty isn’t it all these internet edgelords celebrating the death of an old lady. It’s extremely fashionable to hate the west right now and Britain in particular so it’s all fair game. I don’t even like the royals and I know we have an unpleasant colonial history to say the least but name a country that hasn’t done terrible things in the past. What about the countries that are committing blatant human rights abuses _right now?_ It amuses me that it’s almost all affluent young westerners (Americans, Brits etc) who are always moaning on Twitter about how terrible our respective countries are. They honestly have no idea how good they have it. And we’re not perfect, there are injustices in our society we should fight against, god knows this government is a total shower but these kids are usually covert tories anyway. They definitely don’t want _their_ mummy and daddy’s wealth redistributed lol.
> They claim to speak for the working class but if a working class person dares disagree with their politics they’re a ‘gammon’.
> They’re so privileged they don’t even realise that it’s a luxury to be able to eat themselves to a state of morbid obesity, but they think society is fatphobic if they’ve outgrown a standard MRI machine.


I feel that people who moan and whinge about the country they live in should up and leave and go and live in another country and see how they like it there, won’t be quite so nice as they have it now I should think. If you don’t like it, just go


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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Last night I couldn't get to sleep, I couldn't get the sound of the massed bands music out of my head, every time I settled down I could hear and see them march up the long walk.


I had that very same issue. I woke up at 2am with the marching music and the lone bagpiper tune going round and round in my head. I tried to get it out of my head with pop music I knew but by then I was wide awake again 🙃. 

I didn't think I was too much of a royalist but I think it was the fact the queen was so dedicated to serving til the end that you can't help but respect her.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I still have the music now, round and round it goes in my head


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

HarlequinCat said:


> I had that very same issue. I woke up at 2am with the marching music and the lone bagpiper tune going round and round in my head. I tried to get it out of my head with pop music I knew but by then I was wide awake again 🙃.
> 
> I didn't think I was too much of a royalist but I think it was the fact the queen was so dedicated to serving til the end that you can't help but respect her.


That lone bagpiper and his tune he plays on the way out is so chilling but yet so appropriate for her funeral.


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

I thought the children behaved impeccably. It's a credit to their parents . They are a solid family unit much like our Queen was with her family when she was young. Young Charlotte reminds me so much of the Queen, she will be a great support to George, I saw that she reminded him to bow when the Queen's coffin went past. Bless her she's wise beyond her years.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

stuaz said:


> That lone bagpiper and his tune he plays on the way out is so chilling but yet so appropriate for her funeral.


The piece at the funeral was the traditional Lament, ‘Sleep, Dearie, Sleep.’ The lament at the Committal was, "A Salute to the Royal Fendersmith"

I have heard it said that tradtionally the walking away symbolizes the piper leading departed souls to the hereafter, yet stopping short of the Gate through which he cannot pass.

(though on a more practical note, the fading away is more emotional, and bagpipes don't have any volume control!)


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

A bit OT but it made me laugh.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

That's hilarious @kimthecat ! I must admit I do think this has all gotten a bit OTT with calls for them to be sacked but I am loving the memes, they are so funny


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## picaresque (Jun 25, 2009)

Be funny if jumping a queue is what brings down Schofe rather than his now widely known dodgy behaviour with much younger men. He first met that runner he was involved with when he was still a child but they only started dating when he was eighteen, yeah ok. Even if he did wait that’s still grooming. And we’re all supposed to think he’s brave for coming out as gay when that’s not the issue.


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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

picaresque said:


> Be funny if jumping a queue is what brings down Schofe rather than his now widely known dodgy behaviour with much younger men. He first met that runner he was involved with when he was still a child but they only started dating when he was eighteen, yeah ok. Even if he did wait that’s still grooming. And we’re all supposed to think he’s brave for coming out as gay when that’s not the issue.


I hadn't heard about that, though I heard he came out. But not about people much younger. Is that definitely true?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

oh dear , Ive started something off now . I didnt mean to . perhaps a separate thread about queuegate?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

picaresque said:


> Be funny if jumping a queue is what brings down Schofe rather than his now widely known dodgy behaviour with much younger men. He first met that runner he was involved with when he was still a child but they only started dating when he was eighteen, yeah ok. Even if he did wait that’s still grooming. And we’re all supposed to think he’s brave for coming out as gay when that’s not the issue.


I can't bear the man. I read about all that ages ago as that (apparently) was the reason he came out. I think there's a gagging order on that young man to stop him discussing anything but there's plenty of stuff (pics, screen shots of messages, etc on the internet. 

All that fuss when he came out with him crying on TV just looked like one big performance. I do understand that for people that feel they have to hide their sexuality it must be horrible & incredibly stressful but he is in an industry where it is acceptable & not that unusual. Obviously everyone has their reasons & it's not really my place to say when or if he decided to come out publicly but it did seem so set up to portray him as a victim, just make a statement & get on with it!


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## PawsOnMe (Nov 1, 2012)

Bit off topic currently but has anyone seen what the lying in state queue wristbands are selling for online? 😳





















Some have sold for over fifty thousand! 😲


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

I have to admit I have zero knowledge about Schofield - no idea of the rumours are or aren't true. Tho will admit to searching after it was posted. 

Found this article, which doesn't cover anything related to current or former boyfriends, but does cover how the story about Phil being gay was broken. 

In the article it comes across to me that the papers have had a significant impact on what has and hasn't been said. They have essentially controlled the narrative. 

For me it raises a couple of thoughts/questions:

If the boyfriend story is true, why was Phil's sexuality seen as more in the public interest than the potential boyfriend story. Which to me does have the potential to be the bigger story. Does this mean that the boyfriend story isn't true? Or does it just mean they've helped bury it?
How come this type of journalism, labelled here as blackmail journalism, is Ok? 





__





SCHOFIELD EXCLUSIVE: New Sun chief Newton ‘blackmailed’ Phillip Schofield to come out live on TV – Byline Investigates







bylineinvestigates.com





No way of verifying if this article is fully accurate by the way, and it's a bit of a long read. And maybe we need a different thread on the role of the media as I am just contributing to the OT-ness. Sorry.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

£3.35 for postage.😳 Disgusting


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## huckybuck (Jan 17, 2014)

It’s just awful that people want to sell the wristbands - I find it so sad that they don’t mean anything to the person who got them. I wonder if it’s people who just took one but didn’t actually wait to see her.


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## Kaily (Feb 8, 2020)

Apparently ebay have removed them
eBay bans sale of Queen lying-in-state wristbands


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## margy (Dec 9, 2018)

So they should and shame on whoever is selling them . Disgraceful.


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## lullabydream (Jun 25, 2013)

Sorry to go backwards and off topic but the memes about Philip Schofield and Holly are hilarious! Had to look on twitter too and have been pmsl ever since!


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

lullabydream said:


> Sorry to go backwards and off topic but the memes about Philip Schofield and Holly are hilarious! Had to look on twitter too and have been pmsl ever since!


 I dont dislike them but Im sick to death of seeing them . They're everywhere.


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## TonyG (Oct 25, 2020)

lullabydream said:


> Sorry to go backwards and off topic but the memes about Philip Schofield and Holly are hilarious! Had to look on twitter too and have been pmsl ever since!


Last one, promise!


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

TonyG said:


> Last one, promise!
> 
> View attachment 577603


What were the prizes on the wheel in the background? Was it how many hours you can skip the queue by?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

HarlequinCat said:


> the queen was so dedicated to serving til the end that you can't help but respect her.


Have to agree with this: she received Liz Truss and Boris only two (??) days before her death - looking very frail, admittedly. She made a promise to serve the country all her life, which she did, and for that alone she deserves the utmost respect.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

margy said:


> So they should and shame on whoever is selling them . Disgraceful.



And anyone buying them.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> I dont dislike them but Im sick to death of seeing them . They're everywhere.


 You know something? I've only ever seen him on a TV car commercial, and thought he was extremely annoying (also heard the same commercial on the car radio and even his voice irritated me). And her I've only seen photos of in the papers, normally alongside him. I read all the headlines about him coming out as gay, read that it was no surprise to those who worked with him as it had been ''an open secret'' for years. Not read anything about him having a propensity for very young men though.
I think the reaction to the alleged queue jumping is very OTT though (though the memes are priceless) - petitions to have them sacked are a bit much - just stop watching them if you feel so strongly, if the ratings drop they'll be out of their jobs anyway, presumably.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Calvine said:


> You know something? I've only ever seen him on a TV car commercial, and thought he was extremely annoying (also heard the same commercial on the car radio and even his voice irritated me). And her I've only seen photos of in the papers, normally alongside him. I read all the headlines about him coming out as gay, read that it was no surprise to those who worked with him as it had been ''an open secret'' for years. Not read anything about him having a propensity for very young men though.
> I think the reaction to the alleged queue jumping is very OTT though (though the memes are priceless) - petitions to have them sacked are a bit much - just stop watching them if you feel so strongly, if the ratings drop they'll be out of their jobs anyway, presumably.


I just put up with them on Dancing on Ice, but his really getting on my nerves he seem to be on everything lately.


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## Boxer123 (Jul 29, 2017)

Putting aside Phil and his background I think this has been massively overblown they are members of the press. The memes are amusing but it seems some tabloids are after blood. She is everywhere but Holly seems like a nice person she no one really deserves to be hounded like this.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Boxer123 said:


> Putting aside Phil and his background I think this has been massively overblown they are members of the press. The memes are amusing but it seems some tabloids are after blood. She is everywhere but Holly seems like a nice person she no one really deserves to be hounded like this.


 I feel the same. Am sure lots of other media types were fast tracked & are probably glad the focus seems to be just on Phillip & Holly.

The memes are hilarious & I love them but they don't deserve to be sacked or sent to the Tower or such like!


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Calvine said:


> You know something? I've only ever seen him on a TV car commercial, and thought he was extremely annoying (also heard the same commercial on the car radio and even his voice irritated me). And her I've only seen photos of in the papers, normally alongside him. I read all the headlines about him coming out as gay, read that it was no surprise to those who worked with him as it had been ''an open secret'' for years. Not read anything about him having a propensity for very young men though.
> I think the reaction to the alleged queue jumping is very OTT though (though the memes are priceless) - petitions to have them sacked are a bit much - just stop watching them if you feel so strongly, if the ratings drop they'll be out of their jobs anyway, presumably.


The memes are so funny but a petition is OTT. I expect it will blow over. At least we are not being accused of racism in this case.


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