# Toy Poodle 4 years old turning aggressive during grooming



## dodiedon (Oct 19, 2010)

We have an Apricot Toy Poodle, Cha-Cha, she is 4 years old and until she developed an ear infection, a few months ago, she was a delightful dog.
We have had 5 toy poodles, so I have all the tools, cutters etc, and have groomed them all, with great success and I love doing it. Now suddenly Cha-Cha has turned quite vicious, only during grooming her feet and body, I daren't touch her face, so have to get professional groomer to do that.
Now grooming her is a good part of my life, I have really enjoyed doing it, and Cha-Cha is a beautiful doggy, but I have almost reached the end of my tether. This morning she even went for my husband, who was helping me by holding her neck and saying nice soothing words, whilst I cut her toe hair. She was so nasty and tried to bite both of us.
Our Vet recommended a Behavioural Lady, we called her, she said she would come around £175 for a visit, with no guarantees.
Cha-Cha is not an aggressive dog, she is timid, will bark at other dogs, never growls (except at us grooming her), in fact she is a lovely perfect dog.
So what do we do, pay £175 and wait to see if the lady can help her, or advertise her (we would give her to a good home), she is a full pedigree registered toy poodle, is there anybody who can really help or advise us on what we should do, how can such a small dog cause such a disturbance?.


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## CheekoAndCo (Jun 17, 2009)

I have the same problem with Cheeko so rather than risk getting bit I just pay £25 for someone else to do him because he's fine with her doing it. I've been bit a few times when I've tried to do him but realised it's not worth it.


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## keirk (Aug 9, 2010)

dodiedon said:


> We have an Apricot Toy Poodle, Cha-Cha, she is 4 years old and until she developed an ear infection, a few months ago, she was a delightful dog.
> We have had 5 toy poodles, so I have all the tools, cutters etc, and have groomed them all, with great success and I love doing it. Now suddenly Cha-Cha has turned quite vicious, only during grooming her feet and body, I daren't touch her face, so have to get professional groomer to do that.
> Now grooming her is a good part of my life, I have really enjoyed doing it, and Cha-Cha is a beautiful doggy, but I have almost reached the end of my tether. This morning she even went for my husband, who was helping me by holding her neck and saying nice soothing words, whilst I cut her toe hair. She was so nasty and tried to bite both of us.
> Our Vet recommended a Behavioural Lady, we called her, she said she would come around £175 for a visit, with no guarantees.
> ...


Clearly she learnt that (because of the ear infection) that grooming hurt - so she learnt that growling etc kept you away. The pain MAY have gone but the behaviour remains.

Rather than holding her down by her neck how about you stop all but absolutely essential grooming. Clearly, while you may enjoy it, she certainly doesnt. Start re-teaching that handling and grooming can be an enjoyable, pain free, activity.

Start slowly, rewarding her for short periods (like a couple of seconds to start with) of gentle hand contact with food or a toy. If she growls or snaps take a step back to a point where she is comfortable. Always end on a good note and make a big fuss of her. Progress to using the brush etc etc.

It may take months before she'll be comfortable with grooming again or she may never really enjoy it again. Remember she is a dog not a doll.

Hope that helps.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

How could you even consider giving away a dog you love just because you can't groom her as you used to? I don't really understand... perhaps I've misinterpreted your post? Does she absolutely need the sort of grooming you undertake and, if so, wouldn't any new owner have exactly the same problem with her? If she doesn't need it, why can't you just discontinue the grooming?

I don't actually own a dog so perhaps I'm overlooking something obvious.


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## dodiedon (Oct 19, 2010)

If you have never owned a toy poodle you wouldn't understand the pleasures of grooming such wonderful dogs, they have to be trimmed regularly, their hair grows and they don't moult like other dogs do, so every week I have always trimmed my poodles. This is the only one who has behaved like this, it hurts me to experience such viciousness from such a small normally friendly animal. It is easy to give her to a groomer, and I can afford to do so, but whats the use of having an animal that wants to bite you?. Does anyone else have some positive suggestions?


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## keirk (Aug 9, 2010)

dodiedon said:


> Does anyone else have some positive suggestions?


Not sure how my reply was not positive.


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## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

I assume you use a table to clip her on so try placing her on the table and reward then take her off again and praise, build ithe time up and get out your tools reward her for being calm then put them away . By working with her slowly she should start to enjoy being clipped again. You could also try using a DAP diffuser during the time you are clipping. Just a suggestion.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

First of there are no guarantees when it comes to behaviour - whether you pay someone for advice or not.

Your dog's emotionaly response toward grooming, this sort of handling, grooming equipment, they grooming table, the situation and perhaps even you (and your husband) in this context has changed.

From an attitude that was presumably and hopefully positive this has changed something likely associated with pain, discomfort or other unpleasantness.

This can be changed but will take time, patience and a gradual approach.

Your dog does not want to bite you - this is not personal. Why would you consider rehoming her, particularly if she is likely to bite a person?

Animal's bodies are adapted to restraining their aggressive responses, and even when a social situation escalates they are still likely to deliver only inhibited aggerssive responses.
If your dog feels pushed so far as to bite, then she is in major distress.

This isn't about your love of grooming your dogs, its about her health and ability to cope with something that is to be a regular part of her life.

If she is groomed so regularly, during re-training your should be able to delay a full groom for a while until you can work with her to improve her comfort levels.

It is important to understand that when working with fears, that the scared dog should not be exposed to the scary situation at all during training. While training, work at exposing the dog to the scary situation in forms that the dog can handle.

It is therefore not helpful to restrain the dog while grooming or indeed have the dog restrained and groomed by someone else.

The first part is to establish a starting level. What version of the scary situation can the dog handle? This means learning to recognise doggie discomfort.
A dog standing still while being groomed is not necessarily a happy dog - stillness does not equal happy or calm.

Watching features such as your dog's pupil dilation, lip licking, whale eye, yawns, frenetic movement, freezing and so on. These are subtle signals asking for some relief.
If your dog shows these it is advisable to back off and work at a less pressurised level.

You may need to break the grooming procedure down into small stages. Start with pairing grooming tools with yummies.
And in separate training sessions, pair a light touch to her back with yummies.

Soon your dog will immediately look for her treat upon the arrival of grooming tools or your touch to her back.
Then you can up the ante and work at the next hardest level.
For example having a comb touch her back immediately followed by a yummy.

I would recommed the book MINE! by Jean Donaldson as she presents a counterconditioning program for dogs who are uncomfortable with handling. This work can of course be easily transferred to grooming too.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I know poodles need trimming (though some people prefer the 'natural' look and don't), but every week?! If anyone was man-handling me so often, I'd be fed up too. Every couple of months is enough for most of the poodle owners I know.


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Not tonight I have an ear ache!


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## dodiedon (Oct 19, 2010)

Some of your replies, especially Keirk and the latest one from Tripod, are excellent and I will really try to follow the suggestions, not sure what a DAP Diffuser is but will google it to find out.
As for the coments about too much grooming, you really don't know what you are talking about, I love Cha-Cha and I like my dog to reflect my life, she is always looking like a show dog.
Will certainly try just putting her on the grooming table, then rewarding her, then progressively seeing what else I can accomplish with her.
My husband only helps me out when I ask him to, normally with the previous 4 toy poodles, I have always been able to manage on my own and it had become a pleasure for the dog and myself. But now it is torture, she snarls, goes to bite and I haven't even touched her. 
In 30 to 40 years of having toy poodles, I have never experienced such behavious, so thanks for all your positive help, please send me any more suggestions, please try to help and doen't say stupid things!, you only reveal how little you know or understand, in how Cha-Cha and I feel.


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## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

I can completely understand that you have concerns about her becoming aggressive during grooming - but I honestly do not understand this


> It is easy to give her to a groomer, and I can afford to do so, but whats the use of having an animal that wants to bite you?.


You have already said the dog is not vicious at any other time so clearly it is the grooming that is the problem. I imagine this is probably related to the ear infection - our bichon got really funny about having his ears handled after having ear problems, although luckily this did not transfer to any other grooming issues.

Your dog doesn't "want" to bite you. She is simply afraid and wants to make the cause of her fear - the scary grooming - go away. She can't tell you this, growling and snapping are the only clear ways she has. If someone approached me every week with a handful of earwigs I would probably lash out too!

I agree with the recommendations so far - start again from scratch, keeping her well below threshold and rewarding every positive interaction. Take it very, very slowly, always ending with something easy so it remains really positive.

DAP is "dog appeasing pheromone". It is a synthetic version of the pheremone released by bitches when they have pups, and has a calming effect on most dogs. It may help to make her feel a little more relaxed for you to work on the re-training.

As has also been said - whilst re-training is underway the dog should not be put in the fearful situation. Obviously poodles do need frequent grooming so this could be complicated. I would strongly suggest paying a groomer (assuming she has no problem with someone else doing it) to clip her as short as possible, so that only minimal grooming is required for the immediate futurel. Forget about having her look like a show dog for the time being - you may get back to that once she has overcome her fears. For now I would go for the easiest, shortest clip possible to enable you to take things as slowly as possible.

The other thing I really want to emphasise is keep her under threshold. If she is too stressed she is unlikely to be interested in treats or any other rewards - you need to make sure that what you are doing is causing no stress whatsoever. This may mean that to begin with you simply pick up a brush, put it straight back down without even touching her, and treat. If you push too far not only will you be unable to reward, you will set her back again and risk being bitten.
From what you have said it is her feet and face that cause the most problems, so don't even think about these for the time being. When you get to the point of touching her with the grooming tools keep it to the safest areas, the ones she least objects to. Don't go for any of the most difficult areas until she has progressed considerably.

A behaviourist may well be of benefit to you, particularly to give you a really good idea of how slowly to go, how to stay under threshold etc. But please make sure you get a decent, qualified behaviourist - preferably APBC or COAPE. A bad behaviourist could make things worse, particularly if they suggest forcing the dog.

Good luck.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

dodiedon said:


> If you have never owned a toy poodle you wouldn't understand *the pleasures of grooming such wonderful dogs*, they have to be trimmed regularly, their hair grows and they don't moult like other dogs do, so every week I have always trimmed my poodles. This is the only one who has behaved like this, it hurts me to experience such viciousness from such a small normally friendly animal. It is easy to give her to a groomer, and I can afford to do so, *but whats the use of having an animal that wants to bite you?.* Does anyone else have some positive suggestions?


I think you have already had the best suggestions from Tripod and others; if it is only her face she does not like touched, she is obviously afraid she is going to be hurt following the ear infection. Did you carry on grooming her face when she had the infection? Or did you think about her welfare and leave her alone until she recovered?

I think you need to change the situation first of all, sit her on your lap to do her face, stroke her face first, give her treats whilst you do it, make her realise in her own time that it is not going to hurt.

One of my newfoundlands is terrified of anyone going under his tail, and yes he will bite anyone who tries, including me. Nobody can brush under his tail and it gets matted. He is not a show dog and he does not need to look perfect, so the vet knocks him out, clips it all off, and then revives him. He is comfortable and he has no reason to be afraid. What is the point of having a dog who wants to bite me? The point is that I love him and will do anything to make his life comfortable and happy, not mine. That is the point.

There is far more to having a dog than the pleasure that _you get from them_ There is also the pleasure and love _they get from you_.

I cannot believe that anyone would even consider rehoming their dog for no better reason than that you cannot groom its face.


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## dodiedon (Oct 19, 2010)

As a Senior Member of the Pets Forum, you should be old enough to have more sense than to record such stupid remarks, they are not even funny!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

dodiedon said:


> As a Senior Member of the Pets Forum, you should be old enough to have more sense than to record such stupid remarks, they are not even funny!


If that is aimed at me, I am very glad you did not find it funny, because that was certainly not my intention. It is a very serious matter to be forcing a situation on a dog which it is obviously terrified of. I see nothing stupid about trying to associate a good experience with something your dog is afraid of, more common sense really and something that anyone who loved their dog would at least try.


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

dodiedon said:


> Some of your replies, especially Keirk and the latest one from Tripod, are excellent and I will really try to follow the suggestions, not sure what a DAP Diffuser is but will google it to find out.
> As for the coments about too much grooming, you really don't know what you are talking about, I love Cha-Cha and I like my dog to reflect my life, she is always looking like a show dog.
> Will certainly try just putting her on the grooming table, then rewarding her, then progressively seeing what else I can accomplish with her.
> My husband only helps me out when I ask him to, normally with the previous 4 toy poodles, I have always been able to manage on my own and it had become a pleasure for the dog and myself. But now it is torture, she snarls, goes to bite and I haven't even touched her.
> In 30 to 40 years of having toy poodles, I have never experienced such behavious, so thanks for all your positive help, please send me any more suggestions, please try to help and doen't say stupid things!, you only reveal how little you know or understand, in how Cha-Cha and I feel.


You have had lots of good advice that is worth following.

I think that you may have to consider that things may never be the same and Cha- Cha will never like grooming again.

You may need to let a groomer do her and just have her clipped every 6 weeks, if this scenario is the less traumatic for her.

As you have said above it is torture for her so why put your dog through it?

Another thing to consider but this is a long shot- has her ear infection gone?

Having spent 18 months trying to get my dogs ears under control ( and they are now) I know it can be a problem with poodle ears.


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## dodiedon (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks again to The Pet Forum and your rapid responses, basically you have all helped, I would especially like to thank Colette, your advice and comments I have already tried, so far with great success this morning, will let you know as time goes by.:dita:


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

dodiedon said:


> As for the coments about too much grooming, you really don't know what you are talking about, I love Cha-Cha and I like my dog to reflect my life, she is always looking like a show dog


But you want the dog & and you, to enjoy stress free grooming, and that means it's wise to drop grooming if an ear infection or similar occurs as a temporary measure till it clears up.

Even super models have their off days, when they wouldn't get out of bed for even a 1/4 million


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## Cockerpoo lover (Oct 15, 2009)

dodiedon said:


> Thanks again to The Pet Forum and your rapid responses, basically you have all helped, I would especially like to thank Colette, your advice and comments I have already tried, so far with great success this morning, will let you know as time goes by.:dita:


That's great news that you have had great success with all the advice Colette gave you and so quickly too.

Hope that Cha- Cha becomes a happy dog once again.

It's nice that you have been so appreciative :dita:


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