# Honest opinions!



## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

Unfortunately the people I got my rats baby rats from are having to rehome all of their rats as they have been advised to for personal reasons. I have always loved the idea of getting into hobby breeding because I know from personal experience the awful health problems rats face and would love to be a part of breeding rats for health and longevity! I was thinking of taking in a few rats that they have successfully bred from and breed them.

However, this is just a thought and I want to know your opinions. I do have an issue with breeding in general because there is always rats needing homes in rescue centres. On the other hand I have purchased two lots of babies now for company for my other rats because its much easier as you know to intro babies to adult rats.

I would be doing it completely ethically with the aim of becoming a nfrs breeder (have to be a member for a year first) and I would only rehome to people who can prove they are good enough to take care of them and I would make it policy that they cannot breed from any rats they get from me (like nfrs breeders do) and that if they can no longer take care of them that they give them back to me.

As I said this is all just a thought at the moment and am not intending on acting upon it unless the forum is behind me on the decision! I trust all of your opinions and value them. Do you think it's a good idea? Or am I just letting my heart rule my head?


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

If you want to fill your house with rats, then why not rescue rather than breed 

There are so many unwanted animals - why contribute to the problem?


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

does she keep her breeding rats in groups- and would you have the room to take in full groups so as to not stress them, or plan to take a couple?

i think you'd make a very good breeder- it's something i'd love to do myself if i can source good'uns!

what i will say is that i remmeber how exhausting baby rats were (granted mine weren't planned and i wasn't prepared, but still!) and how even to this day i still worry myself silly over them- sometimes more than my pups!!!

that's my thoughts anyway!


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> If you want to fill your house with rats, then why not rescue rather than breed
> 
> There are so many unwanted animals - why contribute to the problem?


because there need to be good ETHICAL breeders- otherwise the pet species would die out! if you love a species (or breed) then you can't be against all breeding...
(that make sense?)


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

kodakkuki said:


> because there need to be good ETHICAL breeders- otherwise the pet species would die out! if you love a species (or breed) then you can't be against all breeding...
> (that make sense?)


OP asked for opinions - I have given mine.

YOU don't have to agree with it 

My question was rhetorical - did not require an answer - I could have guessed what it would have been 

I doubt there is any danger of the pet species of rats dying out for want of *one* extra ethical breeder tbh.

and there is no need to be rude


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

If it was me I'd take in all the males if I had room and help the people to find good pet homes for the females.

You need to know the genetic side of things and be able to know the health of previous litters that have been bred from ruling out any rats that have respiratory issues etc that have been passed down the lines.

Also I'd have thought having breeder rats in your house would upset your current males with the smell of does in season.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

If you want to start breeding the right way, learn genetics, get a lot of experience owning rats as pets, have a full bank account, have a solid goal in mind, and get rats from an ethical, registered breeder to start you off.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Like Blade says, knowing the breeding lines well as the genetics side is a start, IMO breeding towards health & temperament are much more important than pretty colours.

Like breeders of dogs & other species, a good breeder will take back their rats if their owners can't keep them any more, have rehoming contracts & won't charge extra for rare or unusual colours or coats.

I'd also recommend finding a mentor to help guide you through, & talk to other breeders at shows & do loads of research as it's a big commitment if you want to do it right.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> OP asked for opinions - I have given mine.
> 
> YOU don't have to agree with it
> 
> ...


i'm well aware of differing opinions thanks.
and excuse me, but how on earth was i being rude by replying? i can't mind read, and it didn't read as if rhetorical. i've come across comments like that hundreds of times about dog breeders (when it certainly isn't rhetorical). 
It is fact that if you don't have good knowledgeable ethical breeders then they get so unhealthy they can't live past a few months. if there are no breeders (as i was pointing out that *some* disapprove of ALL breeding) at all, then you can't have domestic pets.

no idea why you have taken such offense to a forum post, but i certainly wasn't the one being rude.

i'd assumed the breeder giving up would have been mentoring you WYL and helping you with reference material and teaching her lines genetics etc... is that what the plan would be?


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

kodakkuki said:


> i
> i'd assumed the breeder giving up would have been mentoring you WYL and helping you with reference material and teaching her lines genetics etc... is that what the plan would be?


Ah but what would you do when the 'breeder' who is mentoring, has no clue about genetics or how to breed properly to start with?


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

spoiled_rat said:


> Ah but what would you do when the 'breeder' who is mentoring, has no clue about genetics or how to breed properly to start with?


ah, i'd just assumed this breeder would 

if that's the case, if you want to breed, i think it'd be best sourcing your foundations and information elsewhere WLY.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

Thank you all very much your opinions! Hubby and I have talked it over and taken everything into consideration we have decided that we are not going in to breeding. It is something that I am very interested in and would love to be a part of but I dont think that I have enough experience. I agree with everything that has been said and yes there are so many ratties that are looking for homes and its hard then to add to the population but again i would love to be contributing to the good health of these amazing creatures. Now is not the right time for us. I love my boys and they're very happy as they are. However, we have decided to get another little rattie from the same litter as Toby and Milo who I completely fell in love with when I went to collect my boys and would have come home with him that day but she said he wasn't for sale. as soon as I heard that they were having to rehome their rats i immediately thought of 'little naked guy' and asked straight away if he was available and I'm picking him up on saturday. he is a black and pink naked, top eared and has a pink cap on his head!! i fell in love the second i saw him and was gutted to have to leave him there. but he is going to be mine now he he!!

are any of you interested in taking any of these rats in? she has 90 that needs homes. i think she is asking money for them though. she does have a good friend that has a rescue centre who has agreed to take any that she can't find homes for but i thought i would ask. i am meeting her on saturday and if you are interested in taking any then i could pick them up for you and keep them until you were able to pick them up from me. i live in swansea but if anyone can help with transportation from there we could help rehome them.

just let me know xx


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> Thank you all very much your opinions! Hubby and I have talked it over and taken everything into consideration we have decided that we are not going in to breeding. It is something that I am very interested in and would love to be a part of but I dont think that I have enough experience. I agree with everything that has been said and yes there are so many ratties that are looking for homes and its hard then to add to the population but again i would love to be contributing to the good health of these amazing creatures. Now is not the right time for us. I love my boys and they're very happy as they are. However, we have decided to get another little rattie from the same litter as Toby and Milo who I completely fell in love with when I went to collect my boys and would have come home with him that day but she said he wasn't for sale. as soon as I heard that they were having to rehome their rats i immediately thought of 'little naked guy' and asked straight away if he was available and I'm picking him up on saturday. he is a black and pink naked, top eared and has a pink cap on his head!! i fell in love the second i saw him and was gutted to have to leave him there. but he is going to be mine now he he!!
> 
> are any of you interested in taking any of these rats in? she has 90 that needs homes. i think she is asking money for them though. she does have a good friend that has a rescue centre who has agreed to take any that she can't find homes for but i thought i would ask. i am meeting her on saturday and if you are interested in taking any then i could pick them up for you and keep them until you were able to pick them up from me. i live in swansea but if anyone can help with transportation from there we could help rehome them.
> 
> just let me know xx


I expect more ratty pictures


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

emma20 said:


> I expect more ratty pictures


oh for sure!


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

kodakkuki said:


> because there need to be good ETHICAL breeders- otherwise the pet species would die out! if you love a species (or breed) then you can't be against all breeding...
> (that make sense?)


The capitals and exclamation mark - implied shouting to me

(that makes sense?) - came across as patronising/sarcastic

If that was not your intent - then I apologise for my touchiness 

Unfortunately, the written word can be easily misconstrued


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Wow - 90?

I rest my case


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

Lurcherlad said:


> The capitals and exclamation mark - implied shouting to me
> 
> (that makes sense?) - *came across as patronising/sarcastic
> *
> ...


nope, the question mark made that a question.
(and btw, you're short non punctuated remarks can often give the same impression.)


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> are any of you interested in taking any of these rats in? she has 90 that needs homes. i think she is asking money for them though. she does have a good friend that has a rescue centre who has agreed to take any that she can't find homes for but i thought i would ask. i am meeting her on saturday and if you are interested in taking any then i could pick them up for you and keep them until you were able to pick them up from me. i live in swansea but if anyone can help with transportation from there we could help rehome them.
> 
> just let me know xx


No half-decent breeder would flood a rescue centre with their rats...thats downright shocking.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

spoiled_rat said:


> No half-decent breeder would flood a rescue centre with their rats...thats downright shocking.


Just out of curiosity, what would be the ethical protocol for if a breeder has to give up?

I would presume if they are ethical their rats would live out their days with them as pets.

ETA: I ask because a lot of my rescue rats have come from 'breeders' (usually feeder) that have given up & just dumped them on rescuers or Gumtree as a job lot


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

When (good) people have to give up, they usually home the rats out themselves or keep them as just pets. 

The idea of reclassifying the rats as 'rescues', is just abhorrent. They aren't rescues...they aren't needing to be 'rescued' or 'saved', and neither are they in need of a home. Horrible.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

spoiled_rat said:


> When (good) people have to give up, they usually home the rats out themselves or keep them as just pets.
> 
> The idea of reclassifying the rats as 'rescues', is just abhorrent. They aren't rescues...they aren't needing to be 'rescued' or 'saved', and neither are they in need of a home. Horrible.


They are actually in need of a home!!! They aren't simply just giving up their rats! They are their pets and are very much loved! They are absolutely devastated and are trying to do what they can to find them homes!

You seem to have a lot of opinions about this rattery and a lot assumptions. I know you are usually very blunt and opinionated in every post you make and tbh I find you very rude and confrontational but you really have no right to make comments like "no ethical breeder would...", "no good person would...". Truth is you have no idea about these breeders as you've never met them! They haven't 'flooded' their rattery at all because its not just a rattery!! The rats she has are pets and a lot of them are rescued!!! Including two she took in that had deformities! She took them to the vet and got advice on how best to care for them in particular because of their needs. She has found homes for a lot of rescues over the years!


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> They are actually in need of a home!!! They aren't simply just giving up their rats! They are their pets and are very much loved! They are absolutely devastated and are trying to do what they can to find them homes!
> 
> You seem to have a lot of opinions about this rattery and a lot assumptions. I know you are usually very blunt and opinionated in every post you make and tbh I find you very rude and confrontational but you really have no right to make comments like "no ethical breeder would...", "no good person would...". Truth is you have no idea about these breeders as you've never met them! They haven't 'flooded' their rattery at all because its not just a rattery!! The rats she has are pets and a lot of them are rescued!!! Including two she took in that had deformities! She took them to the vet and got advice on how best to care for them in particular because of their needs. She has found homes for a lot of rescues over the years!


90 of them? i'm sorry- i know i've no personal opinions of these people, but once i read you day 90 rats, i began to make assumptions as to why 'they have been advised for personal reasons' to stop keeping them. it's easily done- and even though some are rescues, 90 is an extremely excessive number to have- if the rats are all getting one to one with the owners, i can't see them having time to work...


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> You seem to have a lot of opinions about this rattery and a lot assumptions. I know you are usually very blunt and opinionated in every post you make and tbh I find you very rude and confrontational but you really have no right to make comments like "no ethical breeder would...", "no good person would...". Truth is you have no idea about these breeders as you've never met them! They haven't 'flooded' their rattery at all because its not just a rattery!! The rats she has are pets and a lot of them are rescued!!! Including two she took in that had deformities! She took them to the vet and got advice on how best to care for them in particular because of their needs. She has found homes for a lot of rescues over the years!


You seem to assume that I don't know this 'rattery' and that I haven't done my homework on them. I can assure you, I have, and I stand by everything I have said.
I also take in rescue rats, and I treat all my rats as pets, whether they are breeding rats or not, and I wouldn't overwhelm dedicated rescues with my rats, and neither would any other breeder I know.

I am also aware that you have issues with me, so to be honest, I expected as much from you


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> They are actually in need of a home!!! They aren't simply just giving up their rats! They are their pets and are very much loved! They are absolutely devastated and are trying to do what they can to find them homes!
> 
> You seem to have a lot of opinions about this rattery and a lot assumptions. I know you are usually very blunt and opinionated in every post you make and tbh I find you very rude and confrontational but you really have no right to make comments like "no ethical breeder would...", "no good person would...". Truth is you have no idea about these breeders as you've never met them! They haven't 'flooded' their rattery at all because its not just a rattery!! The rats she has are pets and a lot of them are rescued!!! Including two she took in that had deformities! She took them to the vet and got advice on how best to care for them in particular because of their needs. She has found homes for a lot of rescues over the years!


To be fair, Spoiled Rat does know what she's talking about, there's few people on this forum whose judgment when it comes to rats I would trust, but she's one of them.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

My personal issue with? I don't have a personal issue with you, I don't know you. The issues that I have is purely the very confrontational way put your opinions across. 

Just out of curiosity what would you do with your rats if you found yourself in the same situation?


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

I wouldn't find myself in that situation, as like any responsible breeder, I have a backup plan in case anything goes wrong.
The rats will all be taken care of, they have their own bank account to cover any vet bills or similar, and NONE will end up in a rescue centre.

Part of being responsible is making sure things don't go tits up for the animals in your care, even if it goes tits up for yourself as their carer. You honestly cannot say it's a good idea to accumulate 90 rats and know you have nothing in place for them if it all goes wrong.

As for being confrontational, no. I just don't like people being misled by bullshit, and will not pussyfoot around anymore, especially when I have seen this many times before. I am not making any wild accusations, the posts I make are backed up by genuine experience, and I have seen it from both sides....as a rescuer and rescue, and as a breeder now.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

spoiled_rat said:


> I wouldn't find myself in that situation, as like any responsible breeder, I have a backup plan in case anything goes wrong.
> The rats will all be taken care of, they have their own bank account to cover any vet bills or similar, and NONE will end up in a rescue centre.
> 
> Part of being responsible is making sure things don't go tits up for the animals in your care, even if it goes tits up for yourself as their carer. You honestly cannot say it's a good idea to accumulate 90 rats and know you have nothing in place for them if it all goes wrong.
> ...


Well i'm sure its great up there on your high horse and being perfect! you're attitude is awful and it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, when you talk to people like you do, you're just going to get peoples backs up and get attitude back.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> Well i'm sure its great up there on your high horse and being perfect! you're attitude is awful and it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, when you talk to people like you do, you're just going to get peoples backs up and get attitude back.


I am far from perfect and never claim to be, but I make sure that my animals have the best care possible, and make sure that they have provisions in place for all situations, part and parcel of owning a pet, don't you agree?

I also love how you seem to interpret my words as a personal attack and go so over-the-top in your replies, it's so sweet :001_wub:


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

yet another post turned to arguments......

the breeders may well have a genuine reason for having to rehome, maybe WYL would like to expand on it more?
as for having time for 90 rats, if they live in groups it is very possible to five them all the time attention they need.

spoiled rat maybe rather then just coming across as quite aggressive and just saying you know, you could back what you are saying up, how do you know this breeder isnt good, where is your proof that you say you have, maybe WYL would like this information for her self seen as she has some of the babies from this breeder

as for the rescue thing, it was stated it was a friend who runs a rescue, its most likely she has had a good cry to her rescue friend about what ever has happened and the rescue friend has offered her help IF she needs it
even back up plans can, and DO, fall through and fail

we do not know this breeder, we dont even have first hand information

as for the original question in this thread, im pleased to see you have decided not to breed, it really is very time consuming, money eating and heart breaking


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

Lil Miss said:


> we do not know this breeder, we dont even have first hand information


You may not, but plenty of others, myself included DO, and sadly many pet owners have fallen foul, which is why I tried to (nicely) point out why going there instead of a registered breeder with good reputation, good rats and good background, was maybe a bad idea, on the other thread. It was duly ignored.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

maybe include all the facts here? i have no idea who this breeder even is, havent seen any names mentioned?


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

Rainbow Rats Haven. Reference to them on the other 474647 threads.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

Lil Miss said:


> yet another post turned to arguments......
> 
> the breeders may well have a genuine reason for having to rehome, maybe WYL would like to expand on it more?
> as for having time for 90 rats, if they live in groups it is very possible to five them all the time attention they need.
> ...


thank you little miss. i feel the exact same way. you cannot prepare for everything thing that could possibly go wrong. its just not possible. and as for her having a 'back up plan' she has always known that if she needed to rehome for whatever reason she has a friend who is willing to take in any that she cant rehome. the friend is a professional rescuer, it is her job to find ratties new homes and i cant imagine them going to better homes than through a rescuer!! that is the best back up plan i know!!

yes i do think that 90+ rats is very excessive and personally wouldn't like to be in charge of looking after them but as i have stated in a previous comment she hasnt bred all these rats! a lot of them she has rescued herself. she's had hundreds of rats that she has taken in and found new homes for.

I dont know the exact reason why they have been advised to give up her rats. i do know they have very young children (maybe one has developed some sort of allergy) or the council are making them rehome them. I dont know the details.

As for the comments from spoiltrat she just comes across as very arrogant. there's no facts to back up her statements just her saying that she knows it all. i'm sorry but i just dont take anything people like that say seriously. it just seems like she's taken a dislike to this breeder and is willing to say nasty things to shoot them down. I have been friends with this couple for a little while now, I am a member of her rattery group and there are a lot of people on there that stay in touch with her and her husband on a daily basis (myself included) after having babies from them. she has a lot of respect from these members and its awesome cos we get to see the parents and the siblings from the same litters as our rats grown up and progress. we have a family tree of rats. as soon as the group heard that she is having to rehome her rats a ton of people (myself and my husband included) have been taking in as many as they can to help her out.

i have met this woman and her kids and a lot of her rats. when i went there i had a cuddle fest from loads of her rats and her human babies. i think i know more about this situation than spoilt rat.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

You aren't the only person to have bought from them though. 

The rat world is very small, and people know each other, and yes...it's a cliquey as hell sometimes, but people don't get arsey for no reason and there are just some things you cannot get away with, because it's downright wrong. 

When breeders ignore help, advice etc on how to improve things, time after time, they do get a bad name for themselves, and whilst some clueless pet owners may be very pleased with their rats, that's often because they don't know any better, or know there is an alternative.

I have no personal thoughts on the couple themselves and have not, as you say....taken a personal dislike to them. There is nothing other than genuine concern based on past experience, that's all.
I have tried to keep my answers non-personal regarding this breeder and their practices, because I don't see a point in personal attacks, and the information is out there if you just have a little look for it.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> and as for her having a 'back up plan' she has always known that if she needed to rehome for whatever reason she has a friend who is willing to take in any that she cant rehome. the friend is a professional rescuer, it is her job to find ratties new homes and i cant imagine them going to better homes than through a rescuer!! that is the best back up plan i know!!


Oh and that 'professional rescuer' you mention, recently rehomed a rat to a known animal abuser, who once left a baby rat with it's intestines hanging out, and I had to rush him in for emergency surgery after collecting them, amongst breeding literally hundreds of rats with various genetic issues and early deaths, not to mention dumping rats at shows too and many local rescues having to clean up the mess caused.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

spoiled_rat said:


> Oh and that 'professional rescuer' you mention, recently rehomed a rat to a known animal abuser, who once left a baby rat with it's intestines hanging out, and I had to rush him in for emergency surgery after collecting them, amongst breeding literally hundreds of rats with various genetic issues and early deaths, not to mention dumping rats at shows too and many local rescues having to clean up the mess caused.


well i would really like to know where you are getting all this information from. because i have done research too and i have spoken to a lot of people who have rats from them for a long time and not one of them have anything bad to say about them. my rats have been checked thoroughly by my vet and are in perfect condition! they are very friendly. I had looked them up, did a search on line for them before i had decided to get them from her and found nothing. if you have genuine concerns for the health of the rats that they breed then you need to give the information and give links to these posts you claim are there because I have three from her and am picking up a fourth on saturday and i have a right to know what is possibly in my babies future. and i am not some clueless rat owner!!


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> are any of you interested in taking any of these rats in? she has 90 that needs homes.


*90*????? :yikes:
Not a breeder I would touch with a 50ft long muddy stick, sorry.

Totally irresponsible to have let it get that far, and now expecting other people to mop up after her mistakes...


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

WelshYorkieLover said:


> well i would really like to know where you are getting all this information from. because i have done research too and i have spoken to a lot of people who have rats from them for a long time and not one of them have anything bad to say about them. my rats have been checked thoroughly by my vet and are in perfect condition! they are very friendly. I had looked them up, did a search on line for them before i had decided to get them from her and found nothing. if you have genuine concerns for the health of the rats that they breed then you need to give the information and give links to these posts you claim are there because I have three from her and am picking up a fourth on saturday and i have a right to know what is possibly in my babies future. and i am not some clueless rat owner!!


Please read my post, that was about the 'professional rescuer' you speak of will get the brunt of these rats, who isn't very professional at all, but that's another issue entirely. People can claim what they want about themselves online, but unless they can back that up in real life, if means sod all.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

Oh and WelshYorkieLover, in regards to doing your research on the 'rattery' mentioned...you said this....









Now you say you did research, which is it?


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

spoiled_rat said:


> Oh and WelshYorkieLover, in regards to doing your research on the 'rattery' mentioned...you said this....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You'll find that I had a week or so between posting that message and actually getting my babies!

Again no actual evidence offered to back up any of what you have claimed! I've seen this woman myself, her house, her rats and am friends with A LOT of people who currently have and have had in the passed had rats from her and noone can or will back you up! I've spoken to a hell of a lot of people in the last few weeks and nobody has anything bad to say about her or the health of the rats! There is absolutely nothing on line about them that is negative.

So I'm inclined to believe people who actually know what they're talking about!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

closed for reading


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

due to the arguing and the screen shots of rep this thread has been edited and closed


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