# shaking toys and teaching not to bite



## evuze (Jun 12, 2013)

Hi. We're on our second week of puppy training and our trainer suggested using a toy to manage bite inhibition. 

play with the dog with a soft toy and each time he clamps on to the toy, hold his harness and the toy steady until he Let's go. 
Also, she told us he shouldn't be allowed to shake his toys because he'll learn to "kill" them, especially with strong breeds. similarly, retrieving breeds shouldn't learn to chase balls because that's how they'll learn to chase anything that moves, people on bikes, etc. 

Now, I've tried this with doobley but you can see his frustration and he gets bored fast because as soon as he gets the toy he clamps, which doesn't give him chance to play. though he does tend to release it, there's better, more fun ways for him to learn off.

He also loves to shake his toys and so did our other dogs and not once did they shake their food, another animal or our arms, to me they're just being a dog. 

What do you guys think? Do you let your dog shake his toys and or use this method to teach bite inhibition or off? 

Cheers.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I would read books. Lots of different books by lots of different people. Then try to sort the BS from the truth. 
Dogs are animals. They chase and kill other animals. Nothing can change that. However, we can refocus this prey drive and train the dog to use those instincts and drives in the way we want. 
Your trainer could be confusing two different behaviours : 1) the puppy learning to use his teeth / jaws in an acceptable manner - a normal and essential part of growing up , and 2) play behaviour emulating the instinctual way to hunt and get food. 
I have no problem with shaking / tugging/ pulling games. It motivates my dogs. They enjoy it. It is this enjoyment that makes up for (replaces actually) the excitement of hunting real prey. Stopping your dog fron exhibiting any prey related behaviour does not stop them having a prey drive. It simply removes the best training tool in the box. 
Use what motivates your dog. If he enjoys playing, you have a wonderful way to train.


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

evuze said:


> Hi. We're on our second week of puppy training and our trainer suggested using a toy to manage bite inhibition.
> 
> play with the dog with a soft toy and each time he clamps on to the toy, hold his harness and the toy steady until he Let's go.
> Also, she told us he shouldn't be allowed to shake his toys because he'll learn to "kill" them, especially with strong breeds. similarly, retrieving breeds shouldn't learn to chase balls because that's how they'll learn to chase anything that moves, people on bikes, etc.
> ...


There is some sense in what the trainer is telling you, it's hard to comment as we weren't there. Chase does need some control as you can't train dogs to want to stop chasing, you can only put it under your control. I haven't seen a lot of problems with retrievers going mad on chase after ball throwing, but herding dogs who would have worked with animals would be breeds I would more likely to put in control, not just spend hours throwing a ball and letting the dog make all the decisions. But there would still be ball throwing, just the pup would be taught they can't always run off after it immediately.

Similarly the technique for the dog letting go off a toy I have used a similar method (for different reasons) and not usually with young pups unless they've been taught by their owners to run off with objects and see them as valuable, although I'd teach Leave with treats first before moving onto toys. If it's the same technique it is a valuable 'tool' in the training bag, but (depending on breed) if you remove the toy every time he gets it, he could stop wanting to come back to you with toys, which would be a Bad Thing. So it depends on what set up she's given you, and at what point she's asking you to remove the toy.

I do let dogs shake toys, but I have terriers, and that's in their nature. And I don't think the soft toys mind being 'killed'. If you have a guarding breed I'd want to teach a retrieve so they learn sharing with you is good, before I let them play with toys shaking and killing, or playing tuggy.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

My yorkie loves to shake toys as she is a terrier. When she found a baby bird in the garden she chased it for a bit before I knew what she was up to, but then left it alone. She also runs in crying when a cat is in the garden. She has however 'killed' more toys than my older dog who prefers a game of tug. Both of them will let go instantly if their teeth accidentally grab my hand instead of the toy when playing tug etc and have never hurt me.


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## evuze (Jun 12, 2013)

I think you're right Claire, it's only from getting lots of different views and opinions I can make an informed decision as to what's right for my dog. Which I have been doing 

I've decided I'm gonna let him shake his toys, if your dog does it but will happily leave a birda alone jobeth, it shows they don't learn to kill everything that moves. I like to think he's just very clever using the force of momentum to get inside his toys 

And yea, I can see what you're saying bb, on reflection he is starting to have a soft bite with toys which can only be a good thing. Would mine be classed as a terrier or guard dog being half staff half shar pei? 

Cheers dudes, just needed your thoughts


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## BoredomBusters (Dec 8, 2011)

evuze said:


> *Would mine be classed as a terrier or guard dog being half staff half shar pei? *


Half and half.  Sometimes you can go by what they look like, so if more terrier looking, then more terrier traits, but it doesn't always hold true. Only time would tell, but I'd teach to retrieve and share with any dog, just with yours maybe do that as a priority before you get too much into tuggy. Terriers can be possesive over toys too (as they would not have been required to share dead rats very much), so if he ends up more terrier like it will still be beneficial.

ETA here's my You Tube playlist on retrieving games with puppies, you should be able to see sometimes I make them wait before I release them to chase. If there's not one on there, looks like I need to make a new one, but I'm sure there are somewhere. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9AD4A6721C6244E7


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## Hayley22 (May 12, 2013)

My dogs do what they like with there toys, at the end of the day they are inanimate objects. Personally I don't feel it has any impact on whether they would kill a bird or animal etc.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

My last dog had zero interest in toys but killed any animal he could get his teeth on. He DID shake other animals but it was more of a quick, violent head flick than hold on and shake it to bits. My current dog is toy mad, rarely without something in his mouth, is nuts about tug and fetch, shakes his toys and shows no desire to kill anything or chase joggers, cyclists, horses etc.

Controlled games using the dogs natural desires can be a great way of giving them an outlet for those behaviours. And a huge reward in training. 

If every time my dog clamped down on a toy I stopped the game he'd very quickly stop playing because there'd be no fun in it. He clamps down on his toys, shakes them, rips holes in some of them but it hasn't stopped him from learning to control his jaws. He wrestles with other dogs, biting them in play and not injuring them. He play bites my hubby and rarely leave a mark let alone breaks skin. And he can carry an egg around without cracking the shell.


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

Urrghhhhhhhhhhhh things like this drive me insane  there is so much information out there, and I'm sure it melts peoples brains...

If you have a dog with certain breed traits they will have those breed traits no matter what you do  rather than not doing stuff because of breed traits why not do it and be able to control it, they have them control them, rather than trying to extinguish something that comes natural to a breed or a dog full stop..

I have a Rottweiler and guess what shock of all shocks I play tug with him, and my god I even let him win sometimes hmy: he growls and tugs and rags, it's great fun for him and me  but he leave when told no matter how excited he is, I think being able to control your dog when highly excited is more important than just not doing stuff because it might make a dog do things. I'd say it's a lot more likely that dogs who will chase or "kill" small furries will do so as an outlet to pent up frustrations of what's natural to a dog/breed, than one that has a controlled outlet for it's breed traits..


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