# crossbreeding



## mark150454 (Sep 23, 2009)

can canaries and zebra finches crossbreed and if they can I would like to know if they breed on their own or need any encouragement


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## bengalboy (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi

Canaries and Zebra finches will not cross breed. If you are keeping the canaries and zebra finches together, the zebra finches will cause problems at breeding time because they will steal nest material from the canary hens that are sitting

If you want to cross breed canaries the hens will breed if housed alone with a goldfinch cock, linnet cock and greenfinch cock. All of these hybrids will be infertile.

note the british birds need to be captive bred, it ia against the law to take them from the wild


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## dingal2000 (Oct 18, 2009)

Zebra`s dont normally breed with any other type of bird but there own, I always thought they would the society finches, but apparently not


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## Honeybunny1984 (Jan 21, 2010)

zebra finches will hybridize with bengalese, bicheno and hecks grassfinch to name a few, they rarely pick a mate from another species when kept in a mixed colony, they would have to be kept in a cage by themselves


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## dingal2000 (Oct 18, 2009)

*honeybunny* said:


> zebra finches will hybridize with bengalese, bicheno and hecks grassfinch to name a few, they rarely pick a mate from another species when kept in a mixed colony, they would have to be kept in a cage by themselves


I keep Zebra and Bengalese finches in the same Avairy and have done since i got them and they dont breed together, and IF they did you run a very good chance of creating a steril species, so dont even go there, zebras are attracted to there own as are Bengalese (society) finches.

And if you can find me proof that will like a picture i shall eat my text off this page. Society will cross foster yes, but as for breeding with zebras no


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## lonchura_boi (Aug 19, 2009)

dingal2000 said:


> I keep Zebra and Bengalese finches in the same Avairy and have done since i got them and they dont breed together, and IF they did you run a very good chance of creating a steril species, so dont even go there, zebras are attracted to there own as are Bengalese (society) finches.
> 
> And if you can find me proof that will like a picture i shall eat my text off this page. Society will cross foster yes, but as for breeding with zebras no


bengalese and zebras will hybridise, but not readily. i breifly kept a cock zeb and hen bengalese together (both birds had previously bred with their own kind) and they built a nest together, copulted regularly and laid eggs, the eggs were infertile, but i belive this was to do with the age of the hen bengalese, she was ancient. although ive never seen one in the flesh, ive heard of zeb X beng crosses, but they are rare. also, as they are not closely related species, the resulting hybrids would be sterile. i have seen beng X hecks, and hecks are more closely related to zebs than bengs, so its certainly possible. 
as for 'creating a sterile species', well thats an oxymoron if ever i read one, how can a species exist if its sterile. one off hybrids do not create a species. there is often a negative attitude towards such hybrids as it seems there is a fear that once someone produces a few odd hybrids, the future of pure strains will suddenly hang in the balance, which is rubbish, especialy when you are talking about very common species which produce sterile offspring in the first place.

back on topic, no, zebs and canaries cannot hybridise, although i wouldnt say they could never try, the species are not closely related enough to actualy cross breed, it woud be like trying to cross a fox with a dog, they are from the same extended family, and they may actialy try to breed, but its geneticly impossible.


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## Honeybunny1984 (Jan 21, 2010)

Holy Moly what did i say to spark that off


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## dingal2000 (Oct 18, 2009)

lonchura_boi said:


> bengalese and zebras will hybridise, but not readily. i breifly kept a cock zeb and hen bengalese together (both birds had previously bred with their own kind) and they built a nest together, copulted regularly and laid eggs, the eggs were infertile, but i belive this was to do with the age of the hen bengalese, she was ancient. although ive never seen one in the flesh, ive heard of zeb X beng crosses, but they are rare. also, as they are not closely related species, the resulting hybrids would be sterile. i have seen beng X hecks, and hecks are more closely related to zebs than bengs, so its certainly possible.
> as for 'creating a sterile species', well thats an oxymoron if ever i read one, how can a species exist if its sterile. one off hybrids do not create a species. there is often a negative attitude towards such hybrids as it seems there is a fear that once someone produces a few odd hybrids, the future of pure strains will suddenly hang in the balance, which is rubbish, especialy when you are talking about very common species which produce sterile offspring in the first place.
> 
> back on topic, no, zebs and canaries cannot hybridise, although i wouldnt say they could never try, the species are not closely related enough to actualy cross breed, it woud be like trying to cross a fox with a dog, they are from the same extended family, and they may actialy try to breed, but its geneticly impossible.


If you have had a mating pair Zeb Cross Beng then you arevery lucky and i do say IF , And yes can create a sterile species course you can, If you create a Hybrid doesnt matter what its crossed with, X+Z=R if the eggs are firtile and pruduce offspring, them off spring can be considered a new species whether or not they are sterile, it only takes one to be considered a species
, its just you create one that will extinct after a short period of time, and forgive me for saying thing, but i thing thats playing at being God and it wrong

The Fear of ruining blood lines of birds for me i agree is rubbish, at the end of the day, IF the Hybrids of two species was to survive and able to produce there own young, they would at somepoint have there own blood lines LIKE the Bengalese, The Bengalese is the most famous Hybrid, that was Silverbill X with i cant remember LOL and that survived to live and breed for hundreds of years, probably also due to the fact that they are so layed back and never been in the wild. i wonder how many people know that Bengalese (society) finches is a hybrid.


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## lonchura_boi (Aug 19, 2009)

dingal2000 said:


> If you have had a mating pair Zeb Cross Beng then you arevery lucky and i do say IF , And yes can create a sterile species course you can, If you create a Hybrid doesnt matter what its crossed with, X+Z=R if the eggs are firtile and pruduce offspring, them off spring can be considered a new species whether or not they are sterile, it only takes one to be considered a species
> , its just you create one that will extinct after a short period of time, and forgive me for saying thing, but i thing thats playing at being God and it wrong
> 
> The Fear of ruining blood lines of birds for me i agree is rubbish, at the end of the day, IF the Hybrids of two species was to survive and able to produce there own young, they would at somepoint have there own blood lines LIKE the Bengalese, The Bengalese is the most famous Hybrid, that was Silverbill X with i cant remember LOL and that survived to live and breed for hundreds of years, probably also due to the fact that they are so layed back and never been in the wild. i wonder how many people know that Bengalese (society) finches is a hybrid.


im sorry, a one off hybrid is not a species, its a mix of species. thats like saying every mongrel dog is a breed in its own right... its not and if a sterile hybrid is produced... so what? it makes no differance.

the bengalese is NOT a hybrid, thats a very popular myth, and its not in any way desended from any species of silverbill. having said that, bengalese will readily hybridise with silverbills and produce fertile offspring, indicating they are closely related. the bengales is a domesticated strain of the sharp tailed munia, also known as the white rumped munia (lonchura striata). genetic studys have shown that these birds are the ancestor of bengalese, its only in recent times that the bengalese has had hybrid blood added into cetain strains. their voice, behaviour, courtship displays and DNA are identical and the bengalese and the sharp-tails will readily breed.


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## dingal2000 (Oct 18, 2009)

lonchura_boi said:


> im sorry, a one off hybrid is not a species, its a mix of species. thats like saying every mongrel dog is a breed in its own right... its not and if a sterile hybrid is produced... so what? it makes no differance.
> 
> the bengalese is NOT a hybrid, thats a very popular myth, and its not in any way desended from any species of silverbill. having said that, bengalese will readily hybridise with silverbills and produce fertile offspring, indicating they are closely related. the bengales is a domesticated strain of the sharp tailed munia, also known as the white rumped munia (lonchura striata). genetic studys have shown that these birds are the ancestor of bengalese, its only in recent times that the bengalese has had hybrid blood added into cetain strains. their voice, behaviour, courtship displays and DNA are identical and the bengalese and the sharp-tails will readily breed.


They Have only said they are almost certain its from the WHite Rumped Munia, its not 100% and as history shows after a little reading, it was once said that the bengalese was a result of crossing the white rumped Munia with an Indian Silverbill, So not anything is 100%sure. I suppose a lot of information gets mixed up, because of the Society finch, which is not a true Bengalese, so really anything that is said, can be classed as a myth or Guess, Until DNA testing is done then no one will ever know 100% because to me, almost certain is not 100%


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## lonchura_boi (Aug 19, 2009)

dingal2000 said:


> because of the Society finch, which is not a true Bengalese,


is there a differance between society and bengalese? i was under the impression the name 'society finch' was the name used by the americans instead of bengalese.


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## dingal2000 (Oct 18, 2009)

lonchura_boi said:


> is there a differance between society and bengalese? i was under the impression the name 'society finch' was the name used by the americans instead of bengalese.


Well after a bit of digging around reading, the Society finch os a Hybrid Of a true bengalee, i know i didnt know whether to believe that or not, and it also said that the only real difference, between them is that the society will produce More infirtile eggs than a true Bengal.

And apparantly foster skills are not as tuned and a true Bengalee, I mean the bengalee has been around since the begining of the 1800s, so i suppose there must be a off breed hybrid somewhere, so with that in mind i tend to think maybe this is true


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## lonchura_boi (Aug 19, 2009)

dingal2000 said:


> Well after a bit of digging around reading, the Society finch os a Hybrid Of a true bengalee, i know i didnt know whether to believe that or not, and it also said that the only real difference, between them is that the society will produce More infirtile eggs than a true Bengal.
> 
> And apparantly foster skills are not as tuned and a true Bengalee, I mean the bengalee has been around since the begining of the 1800s, so i suppose there must be a off breed hybrid somewhere, so with that in mind i tend to think maybe this is true


hmm, skeptical, but il keep an open mind. its the first time ive heard of a differance between them. just figured it was the americans calling things different to how we do! they call their buzzards hawks, their vultures buzzards and their kestrel sparrowhawk! very confusing:blink::001_rolleyes::001_tongue:


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## dingal2000 (Oct 18, 2009)

See that would get me straight away..LOL i`ll stick to the english way..LOL which would mean they then become bengalee, but then that was a misconception wasnt it...LOL because they arrived in europe on indian transport boats, but originate from Japan/China


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## thegoldfincher (Mar 9, 2010)

Canaries and Zebra finches are incompatible!!!
they comes from two different species hierachy...impossible to hibrydize.
Nature has his protection system that does not allow this possibility.

Nick


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## debbi (Aug 14, 2010)

dingal2000 said:


> I keep Zebra and Bengalese finches in the same Avairy and have done since i got them and they dont breed together, and IF they did you run a very good chance of creating a steril species, so dont even go there, zebras are attracted to there own as are Bengalese (society) finches.
> 
> And if you can find me proof that will like a picture i shall eat my text off this page. Society will cross foster yes, but as for breeding with zebras no


We have had 2 lots of 3 zebra x bengalese and they r really pretty but dont know what to do with them or how to stop them


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

No one knows for sure the origin of the bengalese although the Japanese seem to produce the earliest evidence of domesticating the White rumped Munia.(DNA evidence)I don't believe there is any difference between societies and bengalese apart from the name.


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## Finchlady67 (Jun 14, 2017)

This is a very old thread. But I actually have a zebra/society finch hybrid male. You can tell he's a hybrid, he's much larger than a Zebra (more the size of a bigger society) and he has some zebra finch markings that are clearly zebra markings. Like his orange patches on his cheeks. He's also has a lot of white on him. I will upload a photo. I have no idea if he's fertile. I will try and take a picture of him around the other zebras to show that he is larger. I have since separated my zebras from society finches. He was born in an aviary of mine 7 months ago that had zebras and societies together in equal number.


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