# Randomly going toilet every and any where.



## Lilith (Nov 4, 2009)

As I stated in my intro I have 2 cats... the one I am having trouble with is my elderly female called Creep. She is now around 14 and spayed, and _WAS_ toilet trained both in and outside. However past few months it seems she doesn't care where she goes to the toilet any more. She doesn't ask to go out and simply picks some where (anywhere) in the flat and does her business.

So far she has done her business; on our sofa (4 times), in her and Quicksliver's sleeping area (lost how many times) and has just last week taken to doing it in their eating area. (7-8 times!)

I'm not sure if she is just being lazy or if this is a case of her not being able to control her system any more. She knows she does wrong since she hides after doing it, or just stares at me after I catch her... and Quicksilver knows too since she usually goes after her as if to tell her off for doing it.

I am at my wits end and have even tried using accident cleaner after she peed in the eating area today... only to have not even 10 minutes her taking a poop there.

I really do love her to bits and the only time she seems to bother using the litter tray outside is when I have the front door open 24/7. (which in the summer was all well and good, but now it's winter it's becoming impractical.) 
I don't know what to do and feel if she keeps doing this I may have to give her another home... so does anyone know what's going on and how I can solve this problem? I love her so much and don't want to give her up, but I feel at this rate I'll have no choice _but_ to do so.


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

have you taken her to the vets to see if there is a medical problem?


----------



## Lilith (Nov 4, 2009)

I took her a few month ago when she was having hairball problems and the vet said she was perfectly healthy... but that was before I noticed her doing this. So no not yet.


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

well, first i'd take her back as this is a completely different problem. she is quite old and problems can occur quite quickly.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Your kitty needs a vet check up, including blood work and a urinalysis. Please don't even consider dumping her. Pets are not disposable objects to be gotten rid of when they have problems. She's an old lady and needs her home and people and special consideration in her last years.

She could be constipated with megacolon, she could have kidney failure and/or a UTI, she could be diabetic, or developing hyperthyroid. All these things can cause litter box issues. In the case of constipation and UTI she will blame the box for her pain and trouble, and so avoid it and go elsewhere in the house.

Arthritis can also cause these kinds of problems. The box is too far away, or to difficult to get in and out of. It hurts her to squat, so again, she blames the box. Where is her litter box kept? Keeping a low sided box in every room will help her be able to get to the box in time.

She could be losing her sight and/or hearing and becoming confused.

Please realize that your senior cat needs special care and understanding now. Seeing the vet a few months ago is not enough, a senior cat's health can change from one day to the next. And these problems she is having now are a red flag that something is not right with her.


----------



## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Yep Creep needs a thorough check up.

It could be incontinence.


----------



## Lilith (Nov 4, 2009)

spid said:


> well, first i'd take her back as this is a completely different problem. she is quite old and problems can occur quite quickly.


Ok when I next get paid I'll take her.


lorilu said:


> Your kitty needs a vet check up, including blood work and a urinalysis. Please don't even consider dumping her. Pets are not disposable objects to be gotten rid of when they have problems. She's an old lady and needs her home and people and special consideration in her last years.


I know she isn't disposable and I was in no way saying she was. I know she needs a home and I took her in when her last owner abandoned her in the middle of Sainsbury's car park. (I found her wondering as if lost there and looked for her owner for 2 months... after which the police she was legally mine if I wanted her.) I have no idea why. A year later she needed dental surgery to take some bad teeth out, that were hurting her.

The only reason I am considering giving her to another home is because I live in a flat and shouldn't even have her or Quicksilver here. (under our tenancy agreement) The only reason they are allowed here is under an agreement neither would be a pest to the other residents here. So her doing her business around the flat isn't good... especially if one day the housing officer comes round and sees her doing it or can smell it. I think that's my biggest fear...


> She could be constipated with megacolon, she could have kidney failure and/or a UTI, she could be diabetic, or developing hyperthyroid. All these things can cause litter box issues. In the case of constipation and UTI she will blame the box for her pain and trouble, and so avoid it and go elsewhere in the house.
> 
> Arthritis can also cause these kinds of problems. The box is too far away, or to difficult to get in and out of. It hurts her to squat, so again, she blames the box. Where is her litter box kept? Keeping a low sided box in every room will help her be able to get to the box in time.


The litter tray is a few feet outside our front door:










The only time she doesn't go in there is when our front door is closed, and she doesn't bother asking to be let out. Just finds some where and does her business.

In fact now I come to think about it she doesn't ask for anything and hasn't since Quicksilver was 2 years old. She lets Quicksilver do all the nagging for food, water, litter change, door to be opened. The only time she does nag is when she wants attention (which is rare these days) or when I am opening a tin of tuna or sardines for them. (yes I spoil them rotten <.< )


> She could be losing her sight and/or hearing and becoming confused.


I don't think it's this since she seems to be able to see and hear everyone perfectly as she always has done, and doesn't bump into objects. (a friends dog used to bump into things when her sight was going and barely hear you unless you were next to her. Although I'm not sure if cats behave the same.)


> Please realize that your senior cat needs special care and understanding now. Seeing the vet a few months ago is not enough, a senior cat's health can change from one day to the next. And these problems she is having now are a red flag that something is not right with her.





Acacia86 said:


> Yep Creep needs a thorough check up.
> 
> It could be incontinence.


As I said when I next get paid I'll take her. I have no insurance since no company would take her since she was 10, (that's how old she was when I got her) and they want me to pay extra on Quicksilver since she had respiratory problems as a kitten. (she almost died of cat flu and had feline herpes when I rescued her. She is fine now apart from slight wheezing when she sniffs things.)

I do honestly love her to pieces even though it doesn't seem like it. If indeed it is a case of her getting old and I can get help and advice on how to look after her I will keep her... however if it is behavioural I don't know what I'll do.

Do you think her random aggressiveness towards Quicksilver could be her getting old too?


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

It was good of you to take her in four years ago. Poor kitty, changing homes is so hard on them.

I think you should put a litter box inside the house for her. Since she is not asking for the door to be open any more, she needs a box where she can get to it when she needs it. It may be cold for her out there, also.

She may be sick, or in pain, and that is what is causing her to be aggressive to the younger cat. Pain or illness will make her feel vulnerable so she will warn the other cat away.

Keep in mind that cats are masters at hiding illness, so when they begin to show symptoms, whatever is wrong has been going on for a while and is probably serious.


----------



## Lilith (Nov 4, 2009)

lorilu said:


> It was good of you to take her in four years ago. Poor kitty, changing homes is so hard on them.


I don't understand why anyone would dump her. On her good days she is a very affectionate cat, love cuddles, any form of attention she can get off you and doesn't like being moved off you once she settles. (She growls and meow angrily if you even try and move her slightly) Hell even when you don't want to pet her any more she'll force you to. :laugh:


> I think you should put a litter box inside the house for her. Since she is not asking for the door to be open any more, she needs a box where she can get to it when she needs it. It may be cold for her out there, also.


So one in the living room one, in the kitchen. Got ya.

When we lived with my boyfriends parents she didn't mind going outside all year round...

Also until this spring/summer they had been going in a litter tray in doors,(we have lived here 3 years) but I was getting fed up of the smell it was leaving in the flat so decided to try and get them to go outside which was working out until now.


> She may be sick, or in pain, and that is what is causing her to be aggressive to the younger cat. Pain or illness will make her feel vulnerable so she will warn the other cat away.


I never thought of that... all I knew is once every so often when she is having a bad day, even when Quicksilvers body language is saying she is submissive and means no harm she hit her, when all she wants is to sleep with or near her.

Quicksilver can be a little over playful but still likes cuddling up to her when Creep allows her to.


> Keep in mind that cats are masters at hiding illness, so when they begin to show symptoms, whatever is wrong has been going on for a while and is probably serious.


I heard that and when she needed her teeth doing it's only when she started being sick and came to me crying in pain after did I take her. I hate seeing and hearing animals in pain.

I am wondering why if something has been wrong with her for so long the vet didn't pick it up. Do you think this maybe started happening a day or so after she left? I know her behaviour has been like this since Quicksilver turned 2... so maybe she is getting annoyed with having her around?


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

A cat's health, especially a senior cat's can change very quickly. An example is my recently departed senior kitty. I begin annual blood work on my cats when they are 10. When they turn 13 I begin blood work every since months. 

In June of my Bridge Angel's 15th year she had blood work that was perfect in every way. Two months later, in August, she developed a UTI and I brought her in. My vet wanted to do blood work again. I said, well she's not due until December, having just had it done two months ago. But I trust my vet so I agreed. The new blood work showed her to be in early stage kidney failure.

Other than the UTI, shehad no symptoms of kidney failure, yet, and very likely would not have shown any for a few more months.

Because of the early detection, I was able to maintain her kidney disease and have her with me for three more precious years. She had a lot of other problems, too. I moved a litter box upstairs for her. I hated having a litter box in my bathroom, but she was old and could not manage the stairs any more. I catered to her every need, because she had given me 18 years (by the end) of unconditional love.

Okay I am getting off topic. Whatever was okay for Creeps before (litter box outside, for example), obviously is not okay for her now. She's aging and needs special care and consideration.

If the litter boxes are kept clean there should be no problem with odor in the house. 

If she had no trouble with Quicksilver for the first two years Quicksilver was there, and is only now objecting, I think it is because she feels vulnerable and does not want to be bothered any more, except when SHE want to. My Bridge Angel was devoted to my Red Boy, but in the last year of her life she spent more and more time sleeping in her special bed in the bathroom, where none of the other cats ever went.

Senior cats require a lot of special attention and care, but the love they give back is worth it all.


----------



## Lilith (Nov 4, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your cat's passing. I am sure she appreciated the care you gave her in her final moments with you. 

I'll do my best to care for Creep as much as I can. Not sure how much I can do without insurance and limited income, but I'll do everything I can do.

Thank you for the help and advice. I also apologize if I touched a sensitive nerve with anything I said.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Aw, you're sweet thank you. I'm glad I was able to help you. The first time taking care of a senior cat is a learning experience. 

I've been through it (senior cats) four times now, plus all my current cats are special needs.

Do let us know how Creep gets on.


----------



## Lilith (Nov 4, 2009)

Just stating the truth of how I see it. Thanks once again. :3

I'll let you know what happens after I take her to the vets... and your kitties must be a handful.


----------



## Lilith (Nov 4, 2009)

Sorry for the double post but just thought I'd give you guys an update.

Turns out nothing is wrong with her and she is 100% healthy. Vet said it sounds like she was protesting until she got what she wanted. (the litter tray in the flat) Which she now has. :mad2:


----------



## Kalipha (Jul 15, 2009)

That's odd, you can only just have got back. Did he do any tests to come to the conclusion she was perfectly healthy, like bloods for kidney failure or urine for UTIs?


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

cats aren't humans - they don't 'protest' in that way. I think your vet is projecting human emotions onto an animal. I think blood work should have been done etc.


----------



## Lilith (Nov 4, 2009)

Blood work was done and came back as normal. I will however go back and get it done again after xmas, just in case anything has changed. 

Since moving the litter tray back into the flat it has stopped the problem. She no longer goes just anywhere she goes in the tray. 
I guess she was just being picky and decided she didn't want to go outside in the cold any more. (probably her age) The few years previous the tray was inside all year round so I think she was used to it being inside.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Thank you for the update, and *THANK YOU for giving her a box inside.*

I doubt she was "protesting". Cats don't think like that. It's more likely she finds it very difficult and uncomfortable to use the other litter box.

Cats can't talk, so when something is wrong they have to find another way to communicate to us that something is not right in their world. Inappropriate peeing is the most common way they tell us.

Blood work will not diagnose a UTI. The vet needs to take a urine sample and test it. But I am glad to hear she is using the box in the house.


----------



## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

Lilith said:


> Also until this spring/summer they had been going in a litter tray in doors,(we have lived here 3 years) but I was getting fed up of the smell it was leaving in the flat so decided to try and get them to go outside which was working out until now.


Great that you 've sorted the problem for now and that your cat's blood tests came back all clear bless her x

I just noticed what you said about not liking the smell of the litter tray in the flat (who does )

What type do you use? I find woodbased litter to be 100 x better than any other for masking smells, it has a nice woody smell even a few days after changing rather than that rank usual stench - it's surprisingly economical (last time I went to Morrisons they had a deal on, 5kg for £3.69 or thereabouts and it seems to lasts ages longer than the stoney stuff or those weird crystals) and I'm pretty sure it's the healthiest kind of litter for our cats (no nasty dust or "clumping" paper fibres which I worry about them ingesting when they wash it off their paws)...


----------



## Lilith (Nov 4, 2009)

lorilu said:


> Thank you for the update, and *THANK YOU for giving her a box inside.*
> 
> I doubt she was "protesting". Cats don't think like that. It's more likely she finds it very difficult and uncomfortable to use the other litter box.
> 
> ...


Well it was the lest I could do. I love my kittys and will do anything I can to make their living conditions comfortable. ^^

I personally don't think anything is wrong with her. I think it was probably the weather becoming too cold for her and finds it too uncomfortable to go toilet outside. I came to this conclusion because my boyfriends mother who also has two cats around the same age as Creep also started doing their business in the house instead of outside. (They are outside cats not inside like mine) So now she keeps a litter tray inside and there seems to be no problem.

I will still take her again in the new year just in case something is wrong. Better to be safe than sorry right? :3


lady_r0gue said:


> Great that you 've sorted the problem for now and that your cat's blood tests came back all clear bless her x
> 
> I just noticed what you said about not liking the smell of the litter tray in the flat (who does )
> 
> What type do you use? I find woodbased litter to be 100 x better than any other for masking smells, it has a nice woody smell even a few days after changing rather than that rank usual stench - it's surprisingly economical (last time I went to Morrisons they had a deal on, 5kg for £3.69 or thereabouts and it seems to lasts ages longer than the stoney stuff or those weird crystals) and I'm pretty sure it's the healthiest kind of litter for our cats (no nasty dust or "clumping" paper fibres which I worry about them ingesting when they wash it off their paws)...


I usually use Sainbury's or Tesco's basic, along with litter freshener. But I'll look around for woodbased since you have recommended it.

Sadly the nearest Morrisons is quite far away. All we have where I am is Tesco's, Sainbury's, Waitrose and Pets at Home. All of which are fairly pricey. v.v


----------



## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm sure you'll find some, it's pretty common, would've thought [email protected] should do it? Pretty much any pet store should stock it for _around_ a fiver for a huge bag. Most supermarkets should have some in stock.
I noticed the Scumerfield near me don't stock woodbased litter - I think ASDA may stock the Bob Martin version (I hate BM tho but at least their wooden cat litter can't be that evil though what they do with the proceeds may be)
As I say it may seem pricey for a bag of stuff your cats going to sh** in (and I'm on a tight budget myself so I know what I'm on about) but it seems to last for ages compared to the basic stuff. And I bought some freshener but I'm very doubtful about it - it says do not flush or compost, it can harm aquatic life etc - so what does it do when the kits lick it off their paws???
Well if it does woodbased does work out more pricey for you you could always just use it for the indoor tray. It can be a tiny bit messier than the heavy stones but really is so much nicer to have indoors x Trust after your first bag you'll never look back! 
I know some ppl use sawdust - very credit crunch agreed, but I can imagine that making a right mess!
Good luck xx


----------



## Lilith (Nov 4, 2009)

Thank you I'll be sure to find and try some.


----------



## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Just be careful about switching litters at this stage in Creep's life. Cats do not like change.

It must be done very gradually. No more then a few pellets a day added to the box, it should ideally take about two weeks to make the change complete. And if she doens't like it, she'll let you know <weg>

I use plain clay litter and have no problem with odor in my tiny one bedroom apartment with three cats and four litter boxes. There is no smell of cat box in my apartment.

I scoop the boxes four times a day (first thing in the morning, before I leave the house, when I get home, and before I go to bed) and immediately after they are used, if I am home to do it (like on Sunday)

I dump the boxes every Sunday, and scrub them with bleach and laundry detergent (because it's safe to mix with bleach) and baking soda, and air dry them, and put in fresh litter.

There should be no odor problems if you keep the boxes clean.


----------



## Tinks magic (Jan 4, 2009)

I use cats best oko plus from pts at home I live in a flat. It is expensive ut lasts me ages with two cats so more economical in the long run!


----------



## jilly80 (Nov 28, 2009)

please dont rehome her that would be so sad at her age to have to get used to a new home, one cat that i had for 15 years was house trained but towards the end she started to toilet everywhere, i found out she was suffering from cancer.
she probally doesnt want to go out in the cold to do her business now that shes getting old, why dont you get a covered litter box and keep it inside.


----------

