# Phantom pregnancies for 7 years, time to have a foal?



## Jhoop (Sep 30, 2010)

Hi all, 

This is my first call for help...

My mare is 20, (ConnemaraxTB) Ridiculously fit and healthy still does all disciplines throughout the year. She pulls phantoms pregnancies every year at least once (her mosts was four in one year) and I am now contemplating putting her in foal. 

A lot of friends have said she will be more than fine to have a foal and should take because she milks all year, literally!!! 

Think she may have had a still-born at some point before i rescued her.

Any opinions would be of great help! 

Thanks to you all and take care! 

Jenna & Ellie


----------



## suze23 (Jun 3, 2011)

Talk to your vet..... let him/her give her a once over then go from there...

there are so many unwanted foals out there as it is - unless you are 100% keeping it id never breed!

i want a foal out of my horse in the next couple of years, however unless im 100% secure thers no way i would!...


----------



## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

If this is your only reason to breed then I would say no. You should only breed from the absolute best you can - what is her conformation like/breeding etc, I would never breed from a mare with more than 3 minor faults and with the market as it is there are some stunning foals about for very little money. 
What if you ever needed to sell - would the foal be worth alot or are you looking at yet another rescue? 
You also have to realise you could loose your mare/foal. 
You need to make sure you have the time - I have been on foal watch now for 7 weeks - checking my mare every hour day and night, as not all horses go by the book and can be very different with each foal and it only takes minutes for it to go pear shaped.
Mares fertility drops from 10 onwards so a full breeding exam would be a must and be prepared to spend heaps and still not have a foal, a friend of mine spent 5 grand last year and her mare still never took!!
Just because she milks heaps does not mean she will be a good mother or get in foal!!
If you loose the mare can you afford the time to bottle feed, not to mention the 3 or 4 grand it costs? 
Do you have a foaling box and safe fencing, plus another foal/youngster for it to socialise with and be weaned with? 
It is a huge and very expensive undertaking - it is FAR cheaper to buy than breed so really do your homework, read lots of books, there are foaling courses too, and really do your research into what you are aiming to produce.
You need to look at your mare through non rose tinted specs and really pick her conformation to pieces to see her weak points and trawl the studs for a stallion that will give you the best chance of producing what you want - the stud fee is the cheapest part so scrimping on it as so many do is a false economy! 

We always suggest to mare owners to set aside £2500 to get a foal on the ground with stud fees, swabs, blood tests, breeding exam, livery, or AI costs, visiting stallions, vet bills, stud feed/vitamin supplements etc, then around another grand a year till 4 when they are old enough to be backed - the old saying of you buy what you want and breed what you get is very true!!!!
Any pics of your mare?


----------



## equi (Dec 19, 2011)

DO NOT BREED A 20 YO. No matter what you THINK about her, no matter how fit she is. Horses VERY rarely have phantoms 

She might have an ovarian cyst that plays up more when shes in season


----------



## equi (Dec 19, 2011)

again i say incase anyone missed, HORSES DO NOT HAVE PHANTOM PREGNANCIES!


----------



## Jhoop (Sep 30, 2010)

Confirmed by vet ... Horses can have phantom preganancies. My mare is a very rare case. 

Full vet check/scans (the whole sha-bang) confirms no health issues and more than able to have a foal safely. Vet actually asked to have first refusal if, once born, my mares foal was to be sold.


----------



## Jhoop (Sep 30, 2010)

I will be keeping the foal of course. My mare has no confirmational faults, wonderful manners, outstanding action, fiery working girl. Best horse I've owned, trained, competed with. Of course everyone's biased about their own horse but she really is knock-out. 

£50,000.00 offered for her in 2011, DENIED! :biggrin:


----------



## lucylastic (Apr 9, 2011)

IMO 20 is too old for breeding. No matter how fit and healthy, she is a veteran. Horses of that age have different nutritional needs and having a foal at that age will take a lot more from her than from a younger mare.


----------



## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

20 isn't too old for breeding if the mare is fit and healthy and it is not her first foal, one of my friesians had a foal this year at 19 but she has had a good few before and was in excellent health and this will be her last. However you say this mare has had a possible miscarriage in the past, pity you don't know the reason why she miscarried, and apart from that no others as far as you know so is basically a maiden, the chances of her taking and carrying to term are greatly reduced with her age. 

It's great you got offered so much for her, I should imagine for her ability and level of training as a schoolmaster which is hard to find nowadays!, but as with alot of crossbreds her abilities could be a fluke unless you know her breeding you have no idea what she'll pass on - a risk I know with any breeding, but more so with a rescue horse from unknown origins. But if you're happy to go ahead and your vet has said physically she is fit enough then you could give it a go, but I would only try it this year and no older. You say she has no conformational faults - any pics? - there are very few animals that have perfect conformation so I'd love to see her!! You could also go down the embryo transfer route - that way you don't have to retire your mare and you don't have the risk of loosing her - just an idea!


----------



## Jhoop (Sep 30, 2010)

Hi AlexArt, 

Thanks for the positive reply! 

Great news about your mum and baby!  I will be keeping the foal as her 'legacy' so to speak, my mare really is such an amazing person and I'd love to bring on a baby from her. I have looked at the embryo side of things and it sounds fab, as you say save her just in case something goes wrong! Vet is certain she will take, carry and deliver with no problems whatsoever so have a few more months to decide. Have a fab stallion lined up so I'm a happy bunny. 

Ellie lost her first foal through neglect (rescue pony and all that!), bloody scum.

The only pic I have of her on this comp is my profile pic. Hope you can see it. I know I'm biased but to me she is amazing. We're a weird couple me and Ellie, we play chase and have 'rear cuddles', ride out all day, she'll lay with me whilst I read my book, so 'movie cute'. She makes my heart flutter when we're training/showing/racing, true love, sooo hard to find! Luckily we found each other, 8 years this summer...my lord!!! 

Hope you can see her pic, sure you'll find some faults that are invisible to me haha! 

Thanks again for the positive factual reply  

Kindest regards

Jenna & Ellie


----------



## AlexArt (Apr 25, 2010)

She's a lovely looking little mare - hard to see her conformation from such a diddy pic, but she looks good from what I can see! Do you mind me asking what stally you've chosen for her?, I'd say a nice compact TB or arab would go very well with her to get a nice small competition type - they really are like hens teeth now as everyone is going for the big warmbloods and breeding huge things! 
I'd definitly ask your vet about the embryo transfer - you can freeze a few then too, so if this foal turns out well you have the chance of a few more, and as your mare will not be out of action the more stuff she carries on doing and winning the higher the value of her foals.
With pony type mares they do tend to have a longer breeding life than the larger breeds, I've seen ponies and pony crosses breeding well into their twenties so with careful management and a really good level of nutrition and high quality forage it is do-able. 
If this is your first foal do read up loads! - just be careful if she does have a foal even the most friendly of mares can turn agressive understandably when they have a foal to protect - so I would advise against playing games with her - or the foal as you'll get smushed!!!


----------

