# Those who feed RR to hamsters



## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

Not sure if its been posted but it seems that hamsters have been becoming ill and dying due to the fact the RR mix doesnt have any mins/vits that they need, they have only just posted that you must feed one of their supplements with it, its too late for some poor hamsters though and they have passed away, its been confirmed by vets the mix was the cause.


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## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

We feed bolt and fiddah the RR hamster Syrian mix 

Do you know what the best cause of action should be?


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## Tomskrat (Aug 11, 2011)

Thats so sad. 
Weve always given the family ham Dr squiggles out of habit because of having rats, and I was told it would do her no harm. Relieved to know that doing so has probably saved her. Poor other hammies though.

just checked RR site and it says "This should be supplemented with a multi-vitamin/mineral such as Tiny Animals or Daily Essentials and Calcivet/Calciform."


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

Tomskrat said:


> Thats so sad.
> Weve always given the family ham Dr squiggles out of habit because of having rats, and I was told it would do her no harm. Relieved to know that doing so has probably saved her. Poor other hammies though.
> 
> just checked RR site and it says "This should be supplemented with a multi-vitamin/mineral such as Tiny Animals or Daily Essentials and Calcivet/Calciform."


That has only just been added after they found out silvers mixes did not have the added vits/mins

It would seem best course of action is either keep feeding but buy the tiny animal/DE to add to your food or change mix, which is what a lot of hammy ppl seem to be doing


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## Peapet (Feb 8, 2013)

So what's best to change to?
I used cheap pet shop stuff before


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

...............


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## Peapet (Feb 8, 2013)

But if a hamster selective feeds another brand, they're not getting the vitamins listed on the pack anyway!
I can't see how they have died just because of the food?!
All my hamsters were from a pet shop, and were all fed the cheapest food


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

but the site said this about it's rat food so why wouldn't it about it's hamsters food?


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## HazelandDan (Apr 22, 2012)

That is soooo sad  poor little hammies. Our little noodle loves the dwarf mix, eats it all up, but also enjoys his fresh treats, so has hopefully been getting extra vits she needs from those. I'm with Peapet, there are hammies out there living off much worse, but I guess it must be a concern if RR have put a notice up with the food. Do you know anything more about it Salemsparklys?

Any idea how long RR have known about this? I just bought a new bag of dwarf food last Thursday and nothing was mentioned - rather annoying... if they'd let customers who are ordering those products know, i could have bought the supplement at the same time and saved myself a fortune on extra postage!


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

.............


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

Mine are on it...though only for a couple of weeks!! What about the rat food...my meeces are on that?


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

You will need to supplement ANY RR food now apparently. I am only going on what I have been told and by the person who makes the mix for RR, its NOT RR's fault, but the fault of the person who makes the mix. With other types of food the vit/min content is spread across the whole mix, RR mix has NONE added, hence them selling things like DR3 etc, which for people with quite a few mice/rats/hamsters could work out expensive.
I personally would supplement any RR mix ASAP or change food until you can.


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

niki87 said:


> Mine are on it...though only for a couple of weeks!! What about the rat food...my meeces are on that?


My mice/Pringle are on RR no 7 but I have added DR3 etc, I am now weaning them off onto another food I found that they really like.


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## Peapet (Feb 8, 2013)

Ok well I'll just mix foods, like I do with my other animals


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

What is RR? forgive my ignorance...are you talking about Reggie Rat?


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> Out of interest, does anyone know why RR foods have to be supplemented, for all animals it seems, when other makes don't?


All RR food needs to be supplemented, they always have and always will. 
I've fed Silvers hamster mix for a while but the difference is I have been supplementing it.

salemsparklys is there a chance you could send me a link to the source of this info please? I find it very hard to believe hamsters have been dying due to the mix and it would be impossible for the vet to pin point the mix as the cause unless there is toxic ingredients.
I know a couple of people that have been spreading horrible rumors about Silver's mix so I want to make sure this is fact rather than hear say 

Lav RR = Rat Rations.


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## Peapet (Feb 8, 2013)

Surely if you had concerns about the food and your animals health, you would seek advice from a vet?!


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

This is so sad.
I'm just glad I feed my Syrian Harry hamster as I did consider feeding silvers RR mixes I'm so glad I didn't!
And I'm glad I feed the SD mix for my rats!
I think some people who feed there rats the RR mixes don't realise that it needs all these supplements and in fact it's not an actual complete mix if you've got to add vitamins and minerals.
This is why I prefer to feed the shunamite diet which I have done for over a year and my boys are in good healthy condition.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

blade100 said:


> This is so sad.
> I'm just glad I feed my Syrian Harry hamster as I did consider feeding silvers RR mixes I'm so glad I didn't!
> And I'm glad I feed the SD mix for my rats!


I don't find it sad at all, I have never had a single problem with RR. And it is rumors such as this that could cause them serious problems......


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I ment sad that these hamsters have died.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

blade100 said:


> I ment sad that these hamsters have died.


I agree with you there, it's always sad when animals die.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

So where has this info come from then on it being silvers mix that "may" have caused the deaths?


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## Wishmaster88 (May 22, 2012)

Hi my names Emma, I am the owner of one of the hamsters that sadly died.

I just want to put a few things straight from my side of things. Sadly a post was made on a forum last night that should never have been made and comments posted that have not been confirmed.

My boy died at a year old from kidney failure. My vet said the mix could have played a part in this. My vet never directly confirmed the mix killed my hamster. Ratrations and the mix owner were made aware of my hamsters illness and his death.

I seen so many posts this morning that have been untrue and should never have been posted.

There are NO confirmed deaths from the mix. I have no idea where this is coming from.
The only confirmed aspect is the diet may have played a part in the death.

I am so frustrated with what I have been reading this morning. Both Silver and Ratrations are doing all the can to make sure if the mix is connected that people take all the steps possible to eliminate any risk.


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## lougarry (Aug 17, 2011)

Guys, I think there has been something of an over-reaction on the Internet (now there's a first!) about all this. I'm not sure if I have posted on this forum before, although I've been a member for some years, but I feel the need to say something.

The hamster mixes on RR are all-natural, meaning that they have no additives, including vitamins and minerals. This doesn't mean they contain *no* vitamins or minerals as the ingredients obviously do, but because there are none added RR have taken the sensible precaution of clarifying that they cannot guarantee them complete, just as they do with their rats mixes.

In some hamsters (just as in some humans - think of the Atkins diet and bodybuilders), high protein levels that are not counteracted by sufficient fibre and fluids can potentially cause bloating and constipation. Silver's RR mix is high in protein and should therefore be supplemented with fresh fruit and veg high in fibre and water. Most hamster owners do this. My own hamsters have been on these mixes and as far as I know have not experienced any ill-effects. Two elderly robos have had quite severe fur loss, but that could just as easily be normal ageing. 

I think RR have acted swiftly and responsibly in highlighting this as an issue as soon as they received feedback from some customers. I don't think they ever said the mixes were a complete diet, but they have now made this explicit. I will continue to buy supplies from them for my rats and hamsters.

The person who designed the mixes had no intention of harming any animal and it is very unpleasant to see her scapegoated. She herself feeds plenty of fresh veg as a supplement.

Just appealing for a bit of calm...

Hope this helps to clarify.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

Wishmaster88 said:


> Hi my names Emma, I am the owner of one of the hamsters that sadly died.
> 
> I just want to put a few things straight from my side of things. Sadly a post was made on a forum last night that should never have been made and comments posted that have not been confirmed.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for confirming this, I had suspected this is what was said but needed to be sure  
Personally I will continue to feed as I am (with the added supplements ) because it works very well here 

I am very sorry for the loss of your hamster xxx


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## Wishmaster88 (May 22, 2012)

Thank you Bernie,

It seems to have developed into a game of chinese whispers.
I have seen so many posts in various places that have been incorrect or had parts exaggerated.

The most important thing is ratrations have taken steps to ensure all hamsters are as healthy as possible on the mixes.

As I said before my vet never confirmed the mix was the reason for his death and I just wish people would stop posting that they did.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

B3rnie said:


> All RR food needs to be supplemented, they always have and always will.
> I've fed Silvers hamster mix for a while but the difference is I have been supplementing it.
> 
> salemsparklys is there a chance you could send me a link to the source of this info please? I find it very hard to believe hamsters have been dying due to the mix and it would be impossible for the vet to pin point the mix as the cause unless there is toxic ingredients.
> ...


Thanks Bernie...my head is mush lately :blink:


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## HazelandDan (Apr 22, 2012)

Emma, I'm really sorry to hear what happened with your hamster, RIP little one. 

Thank you so much for coming and clearing things up. The amount of time and effort that must have gone into designing and testing the mixes, there was obviously only the intention of improving hamster welfare, and I imagine it must be upsetting for silver to have misinformation banded about all over the internet.

I've purchased supplements this morning, and will quite happily continue feeding the food to my hamster, as she loves it.


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## Wishmaster88 (May 22, 2012)

Your more than welcome,

I am trying to track as many of these threads as possible and correct them rumours seem to have been turned into facts....

Please if anyone else beats me to it feel free to share what I have posted.

It's not fair on any of those involved.
Especially when Ratrations took the time to listen to concerns and reacted to them straight away.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

thank you for clearing things up emma. im sorry for your loss 

people need to listen to all the facts before jumping to conclusions and acting on hearsay, hopefully there arent too many of these threads around, although it may be an idea to remind people about suplimenting animals feeds, but any food brand needs some suppliments, even harry hamster


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

Wishmaster88 said:


> Your more than welcome,
> 
> I am trying to track as many of these threads as possible and correct them rumours seem to have been turned into facts....
> 
> ...


I don't see how you could blame one mix of food anyway. Hamsters need a balanced diet the same as others rodents, its down to the owner to provide a mix of fresh/dry foods as a whole and not rely on pre prepared mixes. I always bulk up my base mix with other foods, such as cereals , fruit, veg, mealworms and other loose seeds.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

All my rodents and budgie get a fresh daily diet not just a dry mix!
Always have and always will.
I prefer to give out fresh veggies/salad and fruit rather than other forms of water or powder supplements. And for calcium they get there cooked chicken bones.
Though I do give daily essentials twice a week as they love the taste!


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

Lil Miss said:


> thank you for clearing things up emma. im sorry for your loss
> 
> people need to listen to all the facts before jumping to conclusions and acting on hearsay, hopefully there arent too many of these threads around, although it may be an idea to remind people about suplimenting animals feeds, but any food brand needs some suppliments, even harry hamster


Personally I think there might be some sort of smear campaign out for Silver (for what ever reason), this isn't the first time I have heard people spouting rubbish about her mixes 

I think with the genetic messes I have here then I would have definitely seen a problem if there was one. And as you say even HH needs supplementing so not sure why everyone is surprised that Silver's mix also needs supplementing.


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## Wishmaster88 (May 22, 2012)

I have learnt the hard way that you can't just rely on a mix. I gave fresh treats but this was only a couple of times a week.


Hopefully the note on ratrations will make sure that everyone (myself included) look to provide more fresh aspects in the diet as well as supplementing.

I will be doing both of these things now for my remaining fuzz bums.


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## Wishmaster88 (May 22, 2012)

Just to state I never ever intended for Silver to end up getting any grief from this. It seems to have spiralled out of control.

I had fed Harry Hamster previously and never had a problem so of course when Sparrow became ill i was really shocked.

Ratrations were contacted to make them aware and just to make sure that people like me who didnt supplement and didnt provide fresh food on a daily basis did so if they were using this mix.

As soon as Sparrow became ill he was put onto a supplement but sadly it was too little too late.


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

I have made all the people who informed me and others about this aware of this post.


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Personally I think there might be some sort of smear campaign out for Silver (for what ever reason), this isn't the first time I have heard people spouting rubbish about her mixes
> 
> I think with the genetic messes I have here then I would have definitely seen a problem if there was one. And as you say even HH needs supplementing so not sure why everyone is surprised that Silver's mix also needs supplementing.


Have no idea why anyone would be out to smear her tbh. What people are upset about is the fact the post stating they need to supplement this feed has gone on the page I believe 6 months after this food went on sale, which would mean for 6 months people have had no idea this mix did not have all the vits/mins needed to keep their hamsters fit and well.
I buy RR food, I have zero interest in silver or what she does, I stand to gain nothing from ruining her or her reputation.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

as far as im aware every single food out there for our small fuzzies is COMPLIMENTARY not COMPLETE, this means that we need to make sure we offer adequate fresh foods, vegatables, meat products, insects and hay (as indicated by the needs of the individual species) 

i was never under any impression that RR was any different

i would be interested to see where you got your initial information from though


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## Wishmaster88 (May 22, 2012)

Lil Miss this is the message being posted publically by the creator if it helps.

Hello Everyone 

Ratrations & I now give the advise to give your hamsters a small animal multi vitamin.

This is because the mixes are not processed & do not have the added vitamins as the commercial ones do

This is as a precortion

Ratrations has two they advise on the ratrations website

Thank You


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

salemsparklys said:


> Have no idea why anyone would be out to smear her tbh. What people are upset about is the fact the post stating they need to supplement this feed has gone on the page I believe 6 months after this food went on sale, which would mean for 6 months people have had no idea this mix did not have all the vits/mins needed to keep their hamsters fit and well.
> I buy RR food, I have zero interest in silver or what she does, I stand to gain nothing from ruining her or her reputation.


I have no doubt that you are not out to smear Silver, I do believe that you were just trying to pass on the message 

I can't comment on how long RR has had the supplement need up on the site because I've never really noticed if it said it or not. I have always supplemented with fresh and vits (daily essentials) no matter what mix I feed, maybe that's why I've had a few long lived (the oldest hamster I've had here was 5 and a bit when he died).

Hopefully this will encourage people to start researching what a good balanced diet a hamster needs


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

Its been on the hamster food part a few days I think, I know its been on other parts of the website for a while though, but I would imagine people who talked to Silver on the forums about the mixes for hamster had not been advise to feed it until now.

As for where I am getting my info, actual friends of Silver and hamster owners who have had/have ill hamsters.

Yes, I am only trying to make people aware that may not have been that they need to feed one of the stated vit/mins powders/liquids if feeding RR, nothing more, nothing less.


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## Wishmaster88 (May 22, 2012)

It was put on the hamster food section on Sunday when Ratrations were contacted about it.

I can't stress enough how fantastic they have been about this whole situation and the time they took on Sunday to listen to concerns.

They have been nothing but supportive.


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

Wishmaster88 said:


> It was put on the hamster food section on Sunday when Ratrations were contacted about it.
> 
> I can't stress enough how fantastic they have been about this whole situation and the time they took on Sunday to listen to concerns.
> 
> They have been nothing but supportive.


I am fairly sure RR would be as they are lovely people.


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

Emma, I have seen posts from you saying:
Yeah Silvers Mix. The Protein is too high and fibre to low. 3 hamsters have had digestive issues so far. Including my lad who has suspected kidney failure and more have fur loss issues

Also: She was not particularly pleasant to me either if you recall... (Silver)

Also that Silver swore at you!

So have you now changed your mind about what happened and how lovely shes been?Just wondering?


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

i dont buy from rat rations. extremely expensive and then postage on top of that. plus the rats hated the mix. maybe then they should change the words complete in the title of the product and say they are not complete as they have no vitamins and minerals. then people wouldnt get confused about it.


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## Wishmaster88 (May 22, 2012)

salemsparklys said:


> Emma, I have seen posts from you saying:
> Yeah Silvers Mix. The Protein is too high and fibre to low. 3 hamsters have had digestive issues so far. Including my lad who has suspected kidney failure and more have fur loss issues
> 
> Also: She was not particularly pleasant to me either if you recall... (Silver)
> ...


This is indeed from me. Thats a fb post I believe on someone's profile.

This is before I knew the mix had no added Vitamins and minerals or knew that I should have been supplementing with fresh food or supplements.

In the case of my lad he ended up on a fibre supplement but of course it was too little too late.

The two other hamster with diggestive issues are both on treatment for it now and the people with the fur loss are now either following ratrations advice or have switched mixes.

As for Silver we disagreed over something non food related that we both had strong feelings about. Nothing to do with food.

As far as this is concerned I have nothing but respect for her for posting on all the forums to make people aware of the new guidance on ratrations.


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

Wishmaster88 said:


> This is indeed from me. Thats a fb post I believe on someone's profile.
> 
> This is before I knew the mix had no added Vitamins and minerals or knew that I should have been supplementing with fresh food or supplements.
> 
> ...


So would you then agree that this is actually the person who makes the mixes fault for not making sure people knew they needed to add these things since they had not? Maybe if she had posted when she first made the mix this issue would not have came about.


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## Wishmaster88 (May 22, 2012)

salemsparklys said:


> So would you then agree that this is actually the person who makes the mixes fault for not making sure people knew they needed to add these things since they had not? Maybe if she had posted when she first made the mix this issue would not have came about.


I personally dont think blame can be placed at any direct person. But if it needs to sit with someone it sits with me.

Just coming on this forum today I discovered people give fresh food far more often than I did until now and supplemented alongside mixes.

All I want is for no other hamster to suffer due to an incomplete diet for whatever reason that might be.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

salemsparklys said:


> So would you then agree that this is actually the person who makes the mixes fault for not making sure people knew they needed to add these things since they had not? Maybe if she had posted when she first made the mix this issue would not have came about.


It says on the website these foods are not complete and supplements should be added...or is that a recent addition?


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## Wishmaster88 (May 22, 2012)

Lavenderb said:


> It says on the website these foods are not complete and supplements should be added...or is that a recent addition?


It was added on Sunday.


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

Lavenderb said:


> It says on the website these foods are not complete and supplements should be added...or is that a recent addition?


It was added on sunday I think for the hamster mix.

If people are reading this and thinking about what they feed then some good will have came from this whole thing. I was also surprised to read just how the food testing happened, how long for and how many it was tested on. I know myself from doing a equine nutrition course its not as simple as it seems to have been done here. Would have thought to make a food like this some form of animal nutrition course would have been done?


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

Wishmaster88 said:


> I personally dont think blame can be placed at any direct person. But if it needs to sit with someone it sits with me.
> 
> Just coming on this forum today I discovered people give fresh food far more often than I did until now and supplemented alongside mixes.
> 
> All I want is for no other hamster to suffer due to an incomplete diet for whatever reason that might be.


Im sorry, but the blame for not informing hamster owners that they needed to supplement their food lies with the person who made the actual food! And should they not be saying sorry about this and attempting to spread the word so ALL owners know they have to sort their feed out ASAP rather than saying they did nothing wrong/everyone is out to get me?


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

Why does someone have to be blamed???

If people had done their research this wouldn't have happened


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

B3rnie said:


> Why does someone have to be blamed???
> 
> If people had done their research this wouldn't have happened


If Silver hadnt told people on forums that her mix was 100% complete, no need to add anything then it wouldnt be an issue, but she did tell people this as fact so people thought they were doing the best for their animal. Some people will go on what a supposed "expert" tells them, thats not their fault.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

salemsparklys said:


> If Silver hadnt told people on forums that her mix was 100% complete, no need to add anything then it wouldnt be an issue, but she did tell people this as fact so people thought they were doing the best for their animal. Some people will go on what a supposed "expert" tells them, thats not their fault.


But lots of mixes claim to be complete, I can tell you they aren't at all 
Research means checking many sources, and the maker/owner of the food will most likely be biased so you need to research further afield 

Sorry I don't see this as something you can push blame onto an individual, maybe if more people fed a proper balanced diet this wouldn't have happened at all.

Just to be clear I'm not defending or bashing anyone, just trying to put another perspective in


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## lougarry (Aug 17, 2011)

SalemSparklys, the person who developed the mixes did so with the best possible intentions and should not be scapegoated. :nono:


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

And she also should have made sure people were aware what was in the mix and that they should feed vit/min/fresh daily:nono:

RR have suspended the hamster mix from their website until further notice while they contact suppliers etc

Hamster Mixtures : ratRations.com


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

salemsparklys said:


> And she also should have made sure people were aware what was in the mix and that they should feed vit/min/fresh daily:nono:
> 
> RR have suspended the hamster mix from their website until further notice while they contact suppliers etc
> 
> Hamster Mixtures : ratRations.com


The list of ingredients are (were) on the site, no excuse IMO.
Anyway RR have withdrawn it to send off for analysis, hopefully it will be re-listed once any problems (if there are any) they find have been sorted


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

I feed both silver's hamster food (to Harry) and the RR no 8a (to the meeces.) Never had any problems, but I will admit that it is only used as a tiny proportion of my overall mix - I researched all the foods in them and the other things I add to the mix as no food was enough on it's own to make a complete mix. They all also have mineral blocks (can't use drops or such as too many of mine are on medicines in their water for one thing or another) but they won't touch fresh food, little monster!!


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

zany_toon said:


> I feed both silver's hamster food (to Harry) and the RR no 8a (to the meeces.) Never had any problems, but I will admit that it is only used as a tiny proportion of my overall mix - I researched all the foods in them and the other things I add to the mix as no food was enough on it's own to make a complete mix. They all also have mineral blocks (can't use drops or such as too many of mine are on medicines in their water for one thing or another) but they won't touch fresh food, little monster!!


Do you sell your mix???


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## LittlePaws AnimalRescue (Sep 11, 2012)

I've never used any mix just on its own, I don't think any of them are 100% complete even if they say they are.

I've used the hamster mix and one of the rat ones for my mice for ages now and I've never had any problems.
I don't just use the mixes on their own though I add other stuff and mine hamsters and mice get fresh stuff all the time.

It says even though the mixes aren't available online you can still purchase them over the phone which is good because I need to place an order tomorrow


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

.............


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Fresh fruit and veggies plus leafy greens everyday.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

.............


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2013)

It actually does more harm than good by NOT adding supplements (daily essential twice a week is fine), especially with someone that doesn't feed meet or bones.

Just because you don't like the idea of something shouldn't stop you feeding a good balanced diet, and if you can't offer that (not many people can give a fully balanced diet without supplements) then you need to rely on supplements for the animals sake.

I too don't like added vits for people but for myself if I am lacking something then my body tells me and then I can source it, our pets can't do that so we need to give them everything we can to give them a healthy life.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

i supliment with vegies, cat kibble, chicken and the ocasional few grasshopper/crickets/mealworms
supplimenting doesnt always mean adding powders or drops


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

............


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

This is kind of related so I'll put it here I stead of creating a new post- is there anywhere you can get dailyrat3 other than RR? 
That's all I need and we know what RR's postage is like!!


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

I found a website that does DR S but it works out more expensive, not sure if they have DR3, will find out for you

Nope they dont, cant seem to find anywhere who does it other than RR


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> Is fruit/veg fine as a supplement then? It's not that I don't like supplements, its more that I'm not comfortable about putting stuff in their water. No they can't source stuff for themselves, but that also means they can't do anything about it if I put funny tasting/coloured liquid in their water. Their stuck with it and forced to drink it.Everything has a right to clean fresh water, and it doesn't sit right with me putting god knows what out of a bottle in it.


No, rats and hamsters are omnivores so should be fed as such. Oh and it's called putting two bottles of water on, one has the supplement in and the other has clear water.

With my rats they will drink the water with daily essentials before the clear water so that is clear to me 

It's not putting "god knows what" in the water it is putting vital vitamins and minerals into the water. You can also get mineral stones (as Miss mentioned).

Maltey not sure where else sells the dailyrat, I order mine with my bulk order to make the postage worth while. My last order was over 30kg and the postage still came to £8 so I was happy enough with that


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

That's what I usually do with RR aswell but because I got a free bale of finacard I don't need anything else except the DR3!
Oh well, guess I'll suck it up. Thanks though


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

............


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

niki87 said:


> Do you sell your mix???


:lol: Sorry hun, I don't think anyone would be daft enough to pay what I pay for mouse food :lol: They get the RR food for variety, a good quality food mix (JR Farm Food from zooplus for the mice, which until recently I was buying in at 20 bags a time to do 4 months from the french zooplus as UK didn't sell it!! And Harry ham gets burgess dwarf ham mix) then they get organic H&B stuff added to it. I think it works out as about £50 a month for 30 meeces and Harry, although maybe now it will be slightly cheaper now that I don't have to pay the higher exchange rate on the french zooplus site!! I'm tweaking it again though, so if you want I can send you a list of what is in it and the amounts so you can tweak as you want  (Or even find cheap alternatives too :lol: !)

Wobbles, as far as I know the likes of Dr Squiggles vitamins and such are made by manufacturers who specialise in rodent care and nothing else, so I would imagine companies like that are far more trustworthy in what they put in to a vitamin supplement. Also with vitamins and minerals the places they can source them from, again as far as I know, are far fewer and less varied than a food stuff so there should be less chance of there being something untoward or harmful in it than there would be in a food stuff. That's just my opinion and based on some things I learned at at uni about sourcing essential vits and mins though, so hopefully some one more knowledgeable than myself will give you a better idea on that  It is something I wouldn't hesitate to do with my own mice if I could tbh, the only reason I don't is because I need to ensure that they drink all their medicine and I can't risk them ignoring it over water with supplements in another bottle  If it was something you were willing to do, I am sure that some supplements can be given as a powder...don't quote me on that though


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> Surely there is more than just vits/mins in the liquid, and after the fiasco with human food, I can't help but think if they don't care what they put in our food, goodness knows what's in animal stuff. I will get some mineral stones though, as I said, I'm not averse to giving supplements, just to putting things in their water.


Daily essentials is a powder active constituents per kg.:

Vitamin A 800,000ius
Vitamin D3 100,000ius
Vitamin E 2,000mg
Vitamin C 42.4mg
Vitamin B1 (thiamine)
Vitamin B2 (riboflavin)
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine)
Vitamin B12
Biotin
Vitamin K
Choline Bitarate
Folic Acid,
Niacin,
Pantothenic Acid 
Minerals include:

Selenium
iron
Cobalt
Manganese
Copper
Magnesium
Zinc
Sulphur
Sodium
iodine

You put it in the water twice a week (as water should be changed every day it will only be in the water for two days.

Even with what you are feeding there is no way you (or anyone) can feed a true balanced diet, so by adding these essentials vits and minerals means we are doing the best we can in a domestic environment.

Personally I would be more worried about what is in the commercial brands as pet food labeling isn't as restricted as human food.

If there was a problem giving daily essentials or daily rat then I'm sure the thousands of people using it would have noticed something.


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

dailyRat3 comes as a powder so I'm sure you could sprinkle it over their food.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

..........


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## HazelandDan (Apr 22, 2012)

I've just given noodle her first set of supplements tonight - pinch of tiny animal essentials sprinkled in her food - which she's hoovered up happy as ever, and a drop of calcivet in a small amount of water in her bottle 

a tiny bit of apple and a rocket leaf  spoilt little hammie


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## niki87 (Nov 18, 2009)

zany_toon said:


> :lol: Sorry hun, I don't think anyone would be daft enough to pay what I pay for mouse food :lol: They get the RR food for variety, a good quality food mix (JR Farm Food from zooplus for the mice, which until recently I was buying in at 20 bags a time to do 4 months from the french zooplus as UK didn't sell it!! And Harry ham gets burgess dwarf ham mix) then they get organic H&B stuff added to it. I think it works out as about £50 a month for 30 meeces and Harry, although maybe now it will be slightly cheaper now that I don't have to pay the higher exchange rate on the french zooplus site!! I'm tweaking it again though, so if you want I can send you a list of what is in it and the amounts so you can tweak as you want  (Or even find cheap alternatives too :lol: !)
> 
> Wobbles, as far as I know the likes of Dr Squiggles vitamins and such are made by manufacturers who specialise in rodent care and nothing else, so I would imagine companies like that are far more trustworthy in what they put in to a vitamin supplement. Also with vitamins and minerals the places they can source them from, again as far as I know, are far fewer and less varied than a food stuff so there should be less chance of there being something untoward or harmful in it than there would be in a food stuff. That's just my opinion and based on some things I learned at at uni about sourcing essential vits and mins though, so hopefully some one more knowledgeable than myself will give you a better idea on that  It is something I wouldn't hesitate to do with my own mice if I could tbh, the only reason I don't is because I need to ensure that they drink all their medicine and I can't risk them ignoring it over water with supplements in another bottle  If it was something you were willing to do, I am sure that some supplements can be given as a powder...don't quote me on that though


Zany if you can I would love the list...when you can though!! I will pm my email if that's easier. So Harry just has the burgess mix...that's "complete" enough? Thank you.........again!!!!!!


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## zany_toon (Jan 30, 2009)

niki87 said:


> Zany if you can I would love the list...when you can though!! I will pm my email if that's easier. So Harry just has the burgess mix...that's "complete" enough? Thank you.........again!!!!!!


I'll PM it to you once I'm finished readjusting it again Niki  It's as close as I can make it so that the protein, fat etc is at the right levels for my meeces and the vitamins and minerals I rely on the mineral blocks and the base mouse mix (the JR one) supplying.

As far as I know the burgess one is. I add some of silvers to it alongwith some other bits to make it interesting for him so again the burgess I use as a base and to get most of his vitamins and minerals from with a mineral block inside for him to munch on too  It was the one I was recommended by almost all of the Chinese ham owners I spoke to so I went with that after doing a little reading up on it and what they need  I'm sure some one with more knowledge can confirm or correct that if needed though.


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

............


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2013)

Wobbles said:


> Is this ok then?
> 
> Tiny Animal Essentials - Dr. Squiggles - £4.20 : ratRations.com
> 
> ...


Yes both of those are fine, and yep you can sprinkle it on their food. You can give them a mineral block if you want but you wouldn't need it when feeding the supplements 

I'm also a firm believer in not popping pills (for both myself and my animals) if it can be helped, if I didn't believe the rodents needed them I wouldn't be feeding or advising the use


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

...........


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2013)

No it isn't RR's own brand, it is owned by Dr Sqiggles but RR is the main place that sells it


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

You can also get tiny essentials and calcivet from here
The Rat Warehouse - The Health Aisle


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## butter_cup (Oct 21, 2009)

Which is the best supplement to give then? I want one to mix in with water really...


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## GhostsInSnow (Jul 1, 2011)

The doctor Squiggles Daily Essentials can go in the water


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## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

.............


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