# Looking to breed my female rat in Hull



## ratfiend (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi,
We have 7 rats that we love and we are looking to have another litter. We started out with two rats and had one litter. It was such a lovely experience we are looking to breed one of the girls (Vivi) of that litter.

Vivi is currently 10 months old, black eyes, brown with white socks, she's a fancy rat and the reason we chose her (out of the 3 sisters) is she was the most intelligent out of the litter and her sisters. Vivi is always the first to figure anything out (ie climbing up a rope, reaching high places in the room, learning to ring a bell for our attention, responding to her name, using the litter tray) she is also a very lively, adventurous and friendly rat.

We are looking for a black eyed male rat to breed her with but don't mind what colour or breed (ie dumbo ect). We would prefer a friendly, intelligent rat as it would be best to make a smarter, happier litter. we bought them from Tails and Scales (hull, spring bank) and sold some to Pets Paradise (hull, holderness rd, Nov,Dec 2011) so wouldn't want to breed her with any of them as we want to out breed and not in breed.

If you have a rat that fits the description above and are in the local area and would be willing to breed your rat we would love to hear from you. We would be willing to look after your rat until she was pregnant or have her stay with your male but we would want to look after her during the pregnancy as it would make her feel comfortable. We would also look after the young until they stopped feeding on there own (5 weeks). Out of the litter we are looking for 2 intelligent, black eyed, female rats, for us to carry on the line but other than that we are open to discussion.

I will be checking this tread for replies but also feel free to email me on [email protected],

Thanks Alex:thumbup:


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2012)

ratfiend said:


> Hi,
> We have 7 rats that we love and we are looking to have another litter. We started out with two rats and had one litter. It was such a lovely experience we are looking to breed one of the girls (Vivi) of that litter.
> 
> Vivi is currently 10 months old, black eyes, brown with white socks, she's a fancy rat and the reason we chose her (out of the 3 sisters) is she was the most intelligent out of the litter and her sisters. Vivi is always the first to figure anything out (ie climbing up a rope, reaching high places in the room, learning to ring a bell for our attention, responding to her name, using the litter tray) she is also a very lively, adventurous and friendly rat.
> ...


I'm sorry but no responsible breeder will let you have one of their rats because of the bit I have bolded.

And tbf people don't "stud" out rats.

If you really want to breed I suggest you find a good recommended breeder near you who can guide you through the process.


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## GerbilNik (Apr 1, 2011)

I think if you are only planning on keeping two of the young then it's a bad idea to breed. Putting the rest of the rats out there (i'm assuming to pet shops from what you say) is really irresponsible as you don't know where they are going to end up. If you bring life into the world you are responsible for them until the day they leave the world. There's plenty of unwanted animals out there so if you don't plan on keeping all the young or in the very least doing all you can to ensure excellent homes for them it's a bad idea.


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

ratfiend said:


> Hi,
> We have 7 rats that we love and we are looking to have another litter. We started out with two rats and had one litter. It was such a lovely experience we are looking to breed one of the girls (Vivi) of that litter.
> 
> Vivi is currently 10 months old, black eyes, brown with white socks, she's a fancy rat and the reason we chose her (out of the 3 sisters) is she was the most intelligent out of the litter and her sisters. Vivi is always the first to figure anything out (ie climbing up a rope, reaching high places in the room, learning to ring a bell for our attention, responding to her name, using the litter tray) she is also a very lively, adventurous and friendly rat.
> ...


The breed is the same for top eared or dumbo..they are classed as different varieties not breeds. You shouldn't breed from pet shop rats if you are wanting to breed for health etc...health and temperament should be your main concerns, then the colour or variety. You'd be better placed finding an actual breeder to mentor you. There's quite a lot to understand about varieties, coat types, colours, breeding for health.

Have you visited any breeders to see their stock. From my experience a good breeder isnt going to lend out a stud rat to anyone off the street. They want a suitably healthy female with good breeding lines .


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## fatrat (May 14, 2012)

Umm... oh dear.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

Please don't breed! I wanted to breed my mice as they came from a good breeder and wanted to keep the lines going but in the end I couldn't do it as they are my pets and as someone stated there are so many unwanted pets out there you would be adding to the problem! If you would like more rats that's great but there are so many needing a home why not adopt? 

I took in my three rats from someone who no longer wanted them and I've been asked a couple of times if I would let my mine (particularly Chico as he is a naked) breed with theirs and I have always said no. The reason people breed is for health and to extend the life span. You also have to breed only from friendly ones as personality/temperament is inherited. I love mine to bits and in an ideal world I'd love to have a part of them always by having babies from them but mine a not suitable for breeding. Chico isn't a healthy boy as he is practically blind, has almost constant respiratory infections and he viciously attacked me due to hormones. He's not nasty now he's had his man bits off but there is a strong possibility that these traits could be passed on in his genes. Riley is also affected most of the time with RI and abscesses and Louie is from the same litter as him. And even if they were in perfect health I have no idea where they come from. I have no idea who bred them or any of their health history. I wouldn't stud mine out anyway as I'd want to know what would happen to the babies etc.

I know I've rambled on but I really want you to reconsider your decision.


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## elmthesofties (Aug 8, 2011)

You seem like you have good intentions, but I don't think that anyone would offer to lend you their stud even if it was a common practice.
For one, 'brown with white socks' isn't exactly giving me a lot of confidence. 'Brown' isn't a colour. Agouti, chocolate, etc... they ARE colours, but brown isn't. Somebody who is an expert with rats would almost certainly describe their rat as, for example, an 'agouti berkshire'. Also, top eared rats and dumbo rats are just varieties.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ideal time to breed a female would be when she's about 6 months old. Could be wrong, though.
Anyway, ignoring all of that, you've got pet shop rats and you supply to pet shops. You also don't seem to understand that the place that supplied your pet shop probably supplied lots of others in the area as they will be bred in huge numbers for reptile food. Just because the animals are from a different shop doesn't mean they're not related, and it certainly won't make them breeding quality.

Just my opinion. :


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## ratfiend (Aug 4, 2012)

Thank you for your comments and concerns. We are very serious about breeding them and don't take it lightly and understand that it takes a lot as we have been through it once before with our Jazz. We do have the time and money it takes to look after our rats and Vivi has the perfect temperament for mother hood.

Honestly we don't know about looking for male rat, a lot of our friends have rats and so do some of there family's, when we first got rat's we quizzed everyone we knew and looked up books ect. We did ask them about breeding and they suggested finding a rat that someone loved and knew better so we could look for a happier, intelligent rat, unfortunately they all have girls, older males or red eyed males, or we wouldn't have posted this. We didn't know there where dedicated breeders and that's a good suggestion.

We meant that we wanted at least two girls to carry on the line, so the rest would be up to discussion, we may keep more. We do also know many of our friends who have older rats looking for new ones to add to there family and yes we would sell them to a pet shop but the pet shop we sold the last ones to are a family run place that was highly recommended. the women that work there are lovely and make sure all the animals in there shop get attention they need, they also make sure they don't sell to anyone who could handle the responsibility.

Thanks for clarifying variety not breed, I thought I had used the wrong word. We were looking for a healthier, happy, intelligent rat to breed with, but we would want the rat to have black eyes as red eyes are a disadvantage to a rat.

We're not sure of our rats history, but all the rats were healthy when they where born, there where a few (rex) naked rats but no runts. All our rat are healthy, happy, adventures little rat, who are very affectionate. We got one of our rats neutered and he bounced back faster that the vet thought he would and didn't even bother his stitches. We wouldn't have considered breeding them if they weren't suitable even to the point that we picked Vivi as she's the most suitable out of the 3 young girls.

I hope this makes you feel more at ease with what we want to do and will look into your suggestions. Any more keep them coming thank you for you help.


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

What exactly do you want to breed for? Pets? Show stock? Money?

I would imagine you would be best off with your own males and sell the young yourself rather than a pet shop if you are really wanting to breed.

I know if it was me, I would have my own males that I selected myself, you do not know what someone elses male may have illness wise, wouldnt want someone else rat to bring something to my rats, and would not sell to pet shops no matter how lovely the owner is, I would most likely not sell at all, but I would hate to part with them

Like others have said there are a lot of unwanted rats out there, I have just taken one in last week with a missing paw,kept in a tiny cage with no proper care or food, he came from a pet shop, im sure when he was sold the pet shop didnt think he would end up like that I will not buy any pet from a pet shop unless its kept in terrible conditions, and then its just to get it away from there, I would much rather rescue, or if breeding, buy from a well known breeder


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## elmthesofties (Aug 8, 2011)

How are red eyes bad? Rats with red eyes have poorer eyesight, yes, but rats have poor eyesight anyway. They can live a happy and normal life. Also, due to the way genetics work, breeding a black eyed rat to another black eyed rat does not equal all black eyed babies.
Did you look at this thread which is at the very top of this section?
http://www.petforums.co.uk/rodents/59475-something-all-new-small-animal-owners-consider.html
Do you think rats coming from places like that will be genetically superior to other rats?


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## Lavenderb (Jan 27, 2009)

What colours/varieties are you hoping to breed ?

Also you will need to know the parental history of your female so you can predict what colours you can expect. 

Have you managed to locate any breeders as they don't always advertise the fact and you may have to do some digging. There are some more specialised rat sites...although I will say this. The one site I would reccomend will not be happy in any way that you are breeding from pet shop rats. I think you need to understand how seriously the 'experienced' breeders take this hobby.


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## salemsparklys (Jul 26, 2012)

Lavenderb said:


> What colours/varieties are you hoping to breed ?
> 
> Also you will need to know the parental history of your female so you can predict what colours you can expect.
> 
> Have you managed to locate any breeders as they don't always advertise the fact and you may have to do some digging. There are some more specialised rat sites...although I will say this. The one site I would reccomend will not be happy in any way that you are breeding from pet shop rats. I think you need to understand how seriously the 'experienced' breeders take this hobby.


Hi, do you think you could let me know the name of the site, I am on 1 rat one but always looking for more ideas/info so if its not the same one it would be great:thumbup:


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2012)

ratfiend said:


> Thank you for your comments and concerns. We are very serious about breeding them and don't take it lightly and understand that it takes a lot as we have been through it once before with our Jazz. We do have the time and money it takes to look after our rats and Vivi has the perfect temperament for mother hood.
> 
> Honestly we don't know about looking for male rat, a lot of our friends have rats and so do some of there family's, when we first got rat's we quizzed everyone we knew and looked up books ect. We did ask them about breeding and they suggested finding a rat that someone loved and knew better so we could look for a happier, intelligent rat, unfortunately they all have girls, older males or red eyed males, or we wouldn't have posted this. We didn't know there where dedicated breeders and that's a good suggestion.
> 
> ...


I really don't think you are getting it 

If you really want to breed then find yourself a good breeder (ideally someone registered with the NFRS but be aware that being registered doesn't mean they are definitely a good breeder) and they will be able to find you some good healthy (that you can trace their genetic history) breeding rats.

You have no idea if Vivi has any recessive genetic faults that she could pass on to her kits, also as you still have mum and dad you have no idea what the lifeline is like within Vivi's line so you could potentially be bringing in to the world a group of short lived babies. There are far too many unknowns to even contemplate breeding from your girl.

I have no doubt that the people that own the pet shop are nice people, that doesn't change where they most likely acquire most of their "stock" (think puppy farms for rats and you will be close). So although your rats are probably very cute and have great temperaments they have an unknown history which makes breeding from them irresponsible IMO

If you really want babies then look for a good breeder to guide you as I already suggested or have a look at some rescues, we get lots and lots of pregnant does come in so you could either help to foster during the pregnancy/weaning stage or you could adopt a few of the babies when they are ready 

And finally just enjoy Vivi as a loving pet, and let her live out her days being happy and carefree


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

Another point in addition to those already made (which I'll +1)

You said you want to keep two girls to continue the line. You have no idea if the line is good yet. Your Vivi is only 10 months old and you have to idea how prone she is to respiratory issues, tumours etc because you don't have any genetic background info on her.
Secondly, you only want to keep the girls and then sell on the males to unknown people through a pet shop. So you won't have a history of your males. Who knows what illnesses they could be carrying- you might witness your girls being ok but you'll never know what illnesses the males are prone to.

You really need to have an understanding of genetics before launching in to breeding- some combinations can cause serious birth defects and you don't even know which shade of 'brown' she is?

You really need to do a lot more research before you go ahead with this. Everyone thinks their rat is beautiful/funny/intelligent/cuddly/loving etc but that really means nothing if they all die from tumours at 18 months.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

If you really want to breed & can say you will be breeding for reasons like health & temperament (rather than for the sake of 'having cute babies' or 'making money' or because there is a pet shop who will take on the babies to sell- these are very good examples of why *not* to breed) then contact some reputable breeders. 
Chat to them, find a good mentor & do a lot of research into genetics, lines, health, ethics etc before contemplating breeding.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

I can only echo what others have said. Unless you have a better reason than 'she is a nice rat, and would makea good mother, and we want another litter etc' I really would not breed from her.


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## WelshYorkieLover (Oct 16, 2011)

I actually missed the red eye thing out! I can vouch for that! My naked with red eyes is practically blind!! It's just not a good idea to breed them Hun! I'm not trying to insult you but you aren't professional and therefore things can happen that you know nothing about!


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

i am thinking of breeding 2 of my boys in a years time when my numbers ahve gone. i have gotten in touch with their breeder and asked her permission, they are from a good line, they havent shown signs of illness. and she has offered two ladies for me to breed them too, obviously from her lines aswell. 
now the only reason i am thinking of breeding is so i can keep every single male that is born of those 2 litters and maybe 2 or 3 of the girls and the mothers. that is the only reason i would contemplate it.


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## RetroLemons (Nov 11, 2010)

If you do not know the history of the parents, or at least 5 generations then do not breed her. 

I and I'm sure many other people here have taken on rats from people breeding rats because they are nice and then had them die early or horrible. I had three brothers, two died at 14 months and 16 months the other lived until he was about 2 1/2 but had a tumour removed and when he passed had another developing in his balls. Moony who passed at 14 months got ill from what me and the vet believe was Kidney failure, he soon passed away though even though we tried to help. Padfoot died of a brain tumour...

I'm sure their parents were lovely, they all were however that doesn't prevent the fact that they had no idea what kind of health problems were in their lines and because of this the litter suffered.

I'm sorry if this comes across the wrong way, but thinking about irresponsible breeding both angers me and upsets me.


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## spoiled_rat (Mar 24, 2008)

RetroLemons said:


> If you do not know the history of the parents, or at least 5 generations then do not breed her.


Sorry I have to ask, but why specifically 5 generations?


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## RetroLemons (Nov 11, 2010)

spoiled_rat said:


> Sorry I have to ask, but why specifically 5 generations?


Personal opinion, I consider it a minimum before even considering breeding. I could be wrong and would love to know what breeders tend to go by but I'm sure I read it somewhere...

Let's face it with most varieties, good breeders would be able to go back much further than five generations.

((It may have been three thinking about it))


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

I have read 4. I think it was to check on defects that could skip generations but again I don't know for sure


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

from my Brammocks boys i have the parents, grand parents and great grandparents on the pedigree cert. it is the same on my Ansbrook certificate.

the few certificates i have from Brunel rattery go back to the great great grandparents. that however does not mean they are a better rattery than the other 2. infact you couldnt oay me to have any more rats from Brunel, whereas i have travelled 280 miles to get rats from Brammocks, and would do the same for Ansbrook.


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