# Washing day old babies



## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Just wondered if anyone had had to before and what you used if so??

Seems Angelina, however much i try doesn't want to wash them!! she gives them a quick lick but hasn't given them much of a proper wash and their coats are a tad icky in places!! x

edit: didn't know if she'd completely disown them if i gave them to Eva to wash x that's been suggested so thoughts on that too would be appreciated xx


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I've never washed anything under about two weeks - and just plain water, nothing else, it does work. What would concern me more would be whether she is actually stimulating them enough so they wee and poo. I should watch her closely to check that she is (hope she is for your sake!!)

I doubt if she would disown them, she might get distressed though if she sees you taking them. On the other hand it's usually possible to sneak one away if you need to.

Liz


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

I have had to do this Lou because once a queen wasnt washing them and their little back ends and legs were wet through with pee, not good. So I got a warm damp cotton wool pad on each one just to get the pee off then dried with a hair dryer on a gentle setting. It seemed to do the trick as a couple of days later the queen had eventually took to washing them.


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

pop a bit of food "juice" on them, that'll make her lick them !! :001_smile: Though I agree with the above a small bit of cooten wool/pad in warm water and give them a quick wipe!


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

lizward said:


> I've never washed anything under about two weeks - and just plain water, nothing else, it does work. What would concern me more would be whether she is actually stimulating them enough so they wee and poo. I should watch her closely to check that she is (hope she is for your sake!!)
> 
> I doubt if she would disown them, she might get distressed though if she sees you taking them. On the other hand it's usually possible to sneak one away if you need to.
> 
> Liz


I'm stimulating them aswell so it's ok - they're pooing and peeing well, not half as lively as Eva's lot were but doing ok x

This morning she's thrown up a huge hairball and she'd also moved them all round the pen and covered them over!! i wasn't that impressed x Still, her breathing is much better now but definitely more hairball in there x

Because of the hairballs its been really hard to get her to feed them so i've been on constant watch and having to feed or keep her still so they can try so it's been very hard work x

wish i'd just given her hairball meds when she was preggers now anyway as it's lead to alot of problems!! xx


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> I have had to do this Lou because once a queen wasnt washing them and their little back ends and legs were wet through with pee, not good. So I got a warm damp cotton wool pad on each one just to get the pee off then dried with a hair dryer on a gentle setting. It seemed to do the trick as a couple of days later the queen had eventually took to washing them.





Biawhiska said:


> pop a bit of food "juice" on them, that'll make her lick them !! :001_smile: Though I agree with the above a small bit of cooten wool/pad in warm water and give them a quick wipe!


Thanks you two - i shall try both methods xx

i've honestly been tearing my hair out this morning as she's getting ridiculous now x


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Wishing you well with the babies Lou - hope your queen takes to washing them properly soon.


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Rraa said:


> Wishing you well with the babies Lou - hope your queen takes to washing them properly soon.


So do i hun, however i don't think it's gonna happen - not too sure if Angelina's much of the mothering type now LOL xx

anyone got any tips for me for keeping them going if she carries on this way?? xx

not used to a mother who doesn't want to do her jobs xx


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

sorry i wouldn't know what so suggest, hope some 1 with experience comes along soon... xx


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear of your problems hun I am no expert but would imagine the only thing you could do is hand rear if you think they are not getting enough or perhaps supplement them. 

It's hard work from what I have been told but so worth it & as they get older I'm sure it becomes easier. Hope this helps hunni xx


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## kozykatz (May 18, 2008)

If she really doesn't want to look after them I'd give them to your other girl who has kittens. Otherwise you'll have to hand-rear and that's no fun.....
is there any chance she is unwell? she may have an infection and need antibiotics. The only time I've had girls who won't settle with their kittens, this has been the problem.



LousKoonz said:


> So do i hun, however i don't think it's gonna happen - not too sure if Angelina's much of the mothering type now LOL xx
> 
> anyone got any tips for me for keeping them going if she carries on this way?? xx
> 
> not used to a mother who doesn't want to do her jobs xx


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

Oh sorry didn't realise you had another girly with bubs so yes think what KK has replied seems a good option which I would probably be inclined to try first xx Hope that it gets better for you xx


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

kozykatz said:


> If she really doesn't want to look after them I'd give them to your other girl who has kittens. Otherwise you'll have to hand-rear and that's no fun.....
> is there any chance she is unwell? she may have an infection and need antibiotics. The only time I've had girls who won't settle with their kittens, this has been the problem.


Eva's lot are too old now and Eva's not producing anymore - i did try and see if she'd wash them but she knows theyre Angelina's and won't go near them LOL xx
Angelina has no temperature - her poop is solid and she's eating - her only problem has been the hairballs which stopped her from actually sitting with them at all as she was too busy trying to throw them up x Now shes actually thrown them up she's even less bothered about them i swear!!

kept her still earlier and got one to latch but no mothering skills kicking in whatsoever - even if they squeal she doesn't "run" to them - it's like she thinks they'll be ok on their own!! x She'll take one and bugger off with it and always a different one but always into places that aren't safe x and then all she does is give it a small lick and thats it xx

can't think of anything to get her mothering them now so i think i'm gonna be on my own on this one xx


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

oh dear poor you, i will keep everything crossed that she changes and starts to mother them properly, or you are going to have alot of work on your hands, thinking of you, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Well got one of them to latch and have a drink - however all the others are too weak and won't even take the milk from a bottle from me either  (i will add we had to keep her still so the poor thing could drink!)

Don't think there's much of a positive outlook on this situ xx

Needless to say i'm in bits xx


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## deedeedee (Apr 2, 2008)

OH Lou  - thinking of you... hope they pick up

D x


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

*aww bless ya hun have you tried a Syringe or like an eye dropper  hope all turns out ok*


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear they aren't doing too well Lou - I really hope they pick up for you.

Keeping everything crossed and sending lots of hugs

Lou
XX


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

rottiesloveragdolls said:


> *aww bless ya hun have you tried a Syringe or like an eye dropper  hope all turns out ok*


believe me hun i've tried everything i can think of - i'm not one to give up easily so i'm still trying every half hour to hour!! one boy is not doing too bad, can still suckle so i'm holding her still so he can drink when he's hungry xx he's latching ok so if i can keep this up for a while i think we could just pull him through xx


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

LousKoonz said:


> believe me hun i've tried everything i can think of - i'm not one to give up easily so i'm still trying every half hour to hour!! one boy is not doing too bad, can still suckle so i'm holding her still so he can drink when he's hungry xx he's latching ok so if i can keep this up for a while i think we could just pull him through xx


*
bless you hun iv got everything crossed for you (((hugs))) xx*


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Oh poor you! I hope Angelina soon decides she's going to look after her babies or you'll have more than your hands full trying to rear them. Best of luck to you and my warmest thoughts are with you. Fingers crossed xxxx


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Just lost one  xx

Definitely not talking to Angelina at the moment  xx


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

sorry you lost one  hope you're joking about not talking to your girl.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

im really sorry you have lost one, my heart goes out to you,xxxxx


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## rottiesloveragdolls (Nov 2, 2007)

LousKoonz said:


> Just lost one  xx
> 
> Definitely not talking to Angelina at the moment  xx


*
Im so sorry Lou  :crying:*


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

I,m so sorry Lou - here if you need me XXX


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## deedeedee (Apr 2, 2008)

So sorry Lou, 

Hope the little lad keeps feeding xxxx


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## ErbslinTrouble (Sep 1, 2008)

LousKoonz said:


> Just lost one  xx
> 
> Definitely not talking to Angelina at the moment  xx


OH BABE!!!!!!!!!!!! :nonod: i am so sorry Lou. This doesn't look like it's going to be a good evening for you. I wish you all the best and love in this time. I know you're very experienced so I don't know what I could suggest that you most likely already know. I hate to think that she's rejecting them for a reason and not just being a bad mum, but we have to remember this is a possibility. My only suggestion would be to put her in a kittening pen so she is forced to deal with them and can not run off from them. then for you to stick by and try to nurse them best as you can until she takes the wheel. I know this is just heart breaking for you. but this is my only idea short of taking them into the out of hours vets where they could put them on fluids and supplemental feeding. but even then that might be a fruitless effort and your home efforts would be just as good, if not personally better as you wouldn't need to move them. all our love and vibes here at the Nekosushi house and lots of hugs.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Oh dear. Sorry to hear about your loss. poor little mite:sad: Fingers crossed for the others


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## Janee (May 4, 2008)

Big hugs - can't offer advice but my thoughts are with you. 











My adopted male MC was a hand reared kitten - mother killed 2 and remainder died. I know that the breeder had a special affinity with him.....


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

Hi i just wanted to say how sorry i am that you lost a little one and i have everything crossed for the others xxxx


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

O dear, how dreadful, I wonder if there is something wrong and that's why she doesn't want them? If they make it through the night and don't look any worse tomorrow I'd try tube feeding.

Liz


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

Sorry to hear things aren't going so good.

Once kitts start to get weak it's so frustrating when they won't feed from a syringe or bottle. My thoughts are with you & do hope that you manage to keep the boy going that's feeding from mum & that the others pick up soon.
It may not turn out well but atleast you know you have tried your very best for them. Sadly sometimes things aren't meant to be.

Best wishes x


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## Jen26 (Apr 22, 2008)

Sorry ive only just read this, do you no any other breeders that might have a girl that could foster them?

I would offer myself but mine are only 3 weeks old and mom is already getting thin despite my best efforts, iam not sure she could cope with anymore.

My thoughts are with you, i know its not easy xx


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Thank you everyone for being so helpful and kind xx

Sadly we lost 2 more but boy is going strong due to us making Angelina stay still to feed him - he didn't stop on that nipple for a long time!!

The last girl is touch and go, Thanks to Toby&Darwin for coming over and helping me tube feed - it meant alot!! and i mean it, if you ever need anything don't hesitate to ask xx

will keep everyone updated on little girl - if i can perk her up and i can get her latched then i know she'll do well - little boy is doing much better so i know some of mummys milk will help xx

There wasn't anything up with them apart from being premature and a little dehydrated - Angelina just obviously hasn't got the mothering gene - i don't wish for children other than my furbabes so i can't blame her - it's obviously not something you can find out until she has kittens xx

she'll have to put up with feeding him though until he's old enough to wean x

and yes i wasn't speaking to her as she was sat quite happily purring while her babies died so you cannot blame me - i haven't slept since they were born!! she has xx
we've made our peace now - not sure if i'll mate her again though xx

again thank you to all of you, you've all been so fab and showed just how great it can be on PForums x


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm so sorry Lou - I know when we spoke earlier you were concerned about the other 2. Still, fingers crossed that the other 2 do well and it's fab that Toby & Darwin were on hand to give you the help you needed. What a fantastic thing for them to do.

I can't blame you for being upset with Angelina - it must have been so frustrating to know that these babies would have been fine if she had just taken more of an interest in them and fed them more willingly.

Hope it goes a bit more smoothly for you and that you manage to get some sleep

Keeping everything crossed

Lou
X


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## deedeedee (Apr 2, 2008)

Aw Lou - so sorry for the other 2 you lost - I am keeping everything crossed for the boy and girl..

D xxx


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

Awwwwwwwww I'm so sorry for the ones you have lost & I have everything crossed for the boy & girl xx

Good luck I hope her mothering skills kick in for these 2 xx


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Sorry about your losses, i know it's rotten. How premature were they?

Liz


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Just losing the last girl  too difficult for her to breathe  xx

Boy is on mum again though and doing ok xx

Mum is less of a pain now too so i'm hoping to god her mothering skills do kick in - i could not go through this one again i tell ya! xx all my other girls are kitten mad!! xx

what a bloody nightmare couple of days  xxx

Liz, they were either 59-61 days as she went in with Oz saturday and i saw a mating monday but he could've got her beforehand xxx


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## deedeedee (Apr 2, 2008)

Aww...poor little one


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

Oh no I'm so sorry I am gutted for you xx


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

I am so sorry, I just wish I could have done more to help.
At least you know you did everything you could. The little boy is a strong one, fingers crossed for him and his bonding with mum.

Take care
xxxxx


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Lou, I am so sorry they haven't all made it. This brings it all back because I went through exactly the same thing only a week and a half ago, up all night trying to get them to latch on and hand feeding. I didnt tell you before on p.m.'s but I lost my whole litter, you may have seen it on here anyway.  I do however know how gutted you will be feeling right now and it is an awful, awful feeling.

It does sound promising for your little boy and i'm hoping and praying for you and him that he will be your little miracle out of all this. You have done your very best with these little ones and I admire your courage how you have fought all the way. Sending big hugs. C.x.


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

O dear Lou, ... am in tears as I read down this thread. What an absolute nightmare for you.   - I know what you meant when you said you were not speaking to Angelina. I felt exactly the same with my first queen Zoe when she had her first litter and would not lie down to let her tiny babies suckle. I do hope the boy kitten is doing well now though. 

Lets hope mother nature smiles on you in future - she has been so harsh so far, and so unfair too. 


Sending hugs.


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

little girl gone  xx

however on a better note, Angelina crawled into an igloo and boy was meowing so i just put him in there with her and she's staying and given him a small wash - so here's to hoping!!

he's very lively though - squirming and telling me off for helping him pee lol xx

Saynomore - i now know how it feels and huge hugs sent your way - not easy at all is it xxx i swear i have a huge headache from all the blubbing ive done all day xx

if she gets it right with this boy there may be hope for her yet as a mother xx


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I am really sorry this has happened to you. I wouldn't mind betting though that the only reason she has not been mothering them properly is because they are premature - 59 days has to be highly likely, most boys don't need asking twice! 

I had a litter of 11 once born 6 days early - I don't recall though whether that was 57 days or 59, can;t remember how I counted. She showed no interest in them at all and we lost the lot. For previous and subsequent litters she was a perfect mother. There is no reason at all why you shouldn't trry again.

I do hope the little boy makes it.

Liz


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

lizward said:


> I am really sorry this has happened to you. I wouldn't mind betting though that the only reason she has not been mothering them properly is because they are premature - 59 days has to be highly likely, most boys don't need asking twice!
> 
> I had a litter of 11 once born 6 days early - I don't recall though whether that was 57 days or 59, can;t remember how I counted. She showed no interest in them at all and we lost the lot. For previous and subsequent litters she was a perfect mother. There is no reason at all why you shouldn't trry again.
> 
> ...


thanks hunny, funny me and OH were just talking about that x She is still with little man and seems to be relaxed with him xx i'm so hoping he's the lucky one of the litter x

i think if her mothering had kicked in a little earlier though that my little girl could've had a chance - but i wonder whether the fact that she had 2 stillborns had anything to do with it and also her being put off mothering xx

been a mad rollercoaster - i'm hoping this boy has all the luck in the world - and if he thrives, seeing as i won't be doing a theme, i want everyone to help us find a name for him xxxx

huge hugs to all of you xx dunno what i would've done without you xxx


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Rraa said:


> O dear Lou, ... am in tears as I read down this thread. What an absolute nightmare for you.   - I know what you meant when you said you were not speaking to Angelina. I felt exactly the same with my first queen Zoe when she had her first litter and would not lie down to let her tiny babies suckle. I do hope the boy kitten is doing well now though.
> 
> Lets hope mother nature smiles on you in future - she has been so harsh so far, and so unfair too.
> 
> Sending hugs.


oh hun i didn't mean to make anyone else blubb  that's me blubbing again!!

And yeah, it's very hard to want to talk to her when she looks so happy with herself and you've had no sleep since friday night and your listening to babies crying cos theyre in pain xx

did your girl work it out??

hugs back too xxx


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

how very very sad and upsetting, my heart goes out to you, im praying the little boy will make it, thinking of you, xxxxx


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

How incredibly sad and heartbreaking for you to watch. I can understand your frustration with Angelina. I just hope she decides to nurture her last little boy.

RIP all the other little fur babies. xxxx


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2008)

So sorry you lost the girl Lou - I know you were hopeful for her.

Here's hoping that Angelina looks after the last little boy and that he does well....you must be feeling absolutely awful but you did the best that you could. Even Saskia is upset about it and keeps asking what happened to the babies.

Sending lots of hugs

Lou
X


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## twinkles (Aug 8, 2008)

Really sorry Lou, been thinking of you all through the night and all the way into work to check the thread. Took some lovely pics last night of Dee, will send them through. Just wanted to remind you of the beautiful pets you have enabled Mark and I to have. I know you will have done all you can and unfortunately mother nature has a very strange way of behaving sometimes.

x


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Thanks everyone xx

Amy, can't wait for the pics - i'm always so glad she's got you 2 and now her nephew Sam xx

Lou hug Saskia for me and tell her they were needed for something more important elsewhere, but they are happy and safe in that place xxx That's gonna be your hardest part of breeding - when problems happen you'll have to explain to your children  xx I have my fingers crossed that it's many years before you have to deal with something like this though!! xx

Little man is still hydrated this morning, bit warmer than i'd like, hoping he's not getting a temp but he's still wanting to eat everything under the sun, mums milk and cimicat and she's just been given him for his wash and toilet time, i helped stimulate though as he's a tiny bit constipated xx

wouldn't ya know it he's a black silver classic tabby and white - Just like Solitaire and he looks the spit of him lol xx My stud boy produces them so i can expect them often xx


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

aaaaawww sweet brave little lad - lets hope he continues to make good progress Lou. 

Sorry I haven't been back until now. You asked if my Zoe girl worked it out in the end - well, sort of. Her babies were not premature and I just was lucky that, with persistence and a bit of cruel strength on my part, pinning her down and forcing the babies onto her (the babies were all good sized and happy to suckle), she finally got the idea and after about ten days, she was so fond of them that she wouldn't even let her sister, Poppy, near them.

Zoe had one more litter and then I decided to spay her. The second litter was treated much better by Zoe. I do hope you will try again with your girl and that she will carry fewer babies but slightly larger ones to the complete term. Nothing we can do about the number of kittens but we can hope ... for better things. Sending you continuing good wishes with the little son. He sounds so adorable.


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Rraa said:


> aaaaawww sweet brave little lad - lets hope he continues to make good progress Lou.
> 
> Sorry I haven't been back until now. You asked if my Zoe girl worked it out in the end - well, sort of. Her babies were not premature and I just was lucky that, with persistence and a bit of cruel strength on my part, pinning her down and forcing the babies onto her (the babies were all good sized and happy to suckle), she finally got the idea and after about ten days, she was so fond of them that she wouldn't even let her sister, Poppy, near them.
> 
> Zoe had one more litter and then I decided to spay her. The second litter was treated much better by Zoe. I do hope you will try again with your girl and that she will carry fewer babies but slightly larger ones to the complete term. Nothing we can do about the number of kittens but we can hope ... for better things. Sending you continuing good wishes with the little son. He sounds so adorable.


Thats what we had to do!! She just wouldn't let him feed otherwise xx She's better now but does like to leave him for longer than i think is best so i try and get her back in with him for a bit xx I have seen her letting him suckle so now at least she will feed him on her own - however i'm bottle feeding him every now and again also just to be safe that he is getting enough xx

if she continues to progress well with little man then i shall maybe try again with her next year - but i don't expect miracles from her in the mothering dept and i am less naive to thinking all girls want to be mothers lol xx she's a very "tom-boyish" girl - xx


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## Saynamore (Feb 28, 2008)

Hiya Lou, so happy the little man is doing well. It was the first thing I thought of when I woke up this morning but couldnt get on here til now. Lets hope he keeps going from strength to strength  It is probably a good thing that he is warm much better than being the other way


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Saynamore said:


> Hiya Lou, so happy the little man is doing well. It was the first thing I thought of when I woke up this morning but couldnt get on here til now. Lets hope he keeps going from strength to strength  It is probably a good thing that he is warm much better than being the other way


I'm now able to use my trick on her so she's getting there - i can pick him up and show her him if she's on windowsill - he squeaks at her, she's up off windowsill and down into the igloo to cuddle him before i can even say "come on then mummy!" lol xx

he was extremely warm this morning but he's a good temperature now and quite happily cuddled up with mummy xx 
You honestly don't know how much i am praying she gets it right and he thrives!!! xx


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## Toby & Darwin (May 26, 2008)

She sounds like she has made very good progress.

fingers crossed for the wee man xxxx


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Gosh, you had to pin Angelina down too!  Have to admit I was kind of worried confessing this as I was sure that there would be a thousand breeders all piling in to call me a cruel bully. Still, at least it didn't last too long. I hope you do not have to do this still and that Angelina is nursing her little son more tenderly now.

Do you have a name for the little man?


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Rraa said:


> Gosh, you had to pin Angelina down too!  Have to admit I was kind of worried confessing this as I was sure that there would be a thousand breeders all piling in to call me a cruel bully. Still, at least it didn't last too long. I hope you do not have to do this still and that Angelina is nursing her little son more tenderly now.
> 
> Do you have a name for the little man?


at the moment he's just being called Leeny's little man but i have had a suggestion from Toby&Darwin on a name and if all goes ok this week then when his eyes are open and he's starting to crawl i will ask everyone for ideas and pop up a poll xx he definitely has to have a special name is he gets through this as he will be a miracle then xxx

and hunny, if they slate you down it would only be because they've never been in that situation before - if i have to hold a girl down on the bed to keep her kittens alive i have no problem doing it - you're not hurting them, they may be uncomfortable with whats happening but not in pain x if it helps the kittens not to die then i wouldn't blink an eyelid at doing it again if i needed to x besides, you are helping them bond also!! xx
Every time she's in with him i see him on a nipple and she looks much more relaxed now so i shouldn't have to do it again hopefully xx


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm so pleased that things seem to be getting better with Angelina - not everyone who gives birth wants to be a mum so I guess she perhaps felt a bit like that too.:sad: Sad that you lost the other babies but I am wishing with all my heart that your last little one thrives. I too thought of him first thing this morning but have not been able to get online until now.
Thinking of you.


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## Sungold-Bengals (Mar 10, 2008)

Glad things are looking up for the little man. 

Fingers crossed that Angelina's instincts kick in, in a big way now & you can soon leave them both to it. x


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

It all sounds much more positive today thank goodness.

I am still keeping my fingers crossed for lil man & hope he continues to thrive xx


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## deedeedee (Apr 2, 2008)

Hya Lou

Your lttle lad sounds like him and his mum are gonna be fine. He is going to be one very special little baby! 

Hope things continue to progress.

(its all i could think of at work today, thank goodness he is doing well)

D x


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

Yay and hip hip hooray for Leeny's Little Man!


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## LousKoonz (Feb 9, 2008)

Thanks everyone again x

Honestly if you could see her right now it's like yesterday and the day before were just a bad dream - she won't stop cuddling him and letting him feed whenever she's in there now x

she even cuddled my hand when she was on the windowsill having a break earlier on - i'm now wondering who's replaced Angelina without me knowing LOL xx

waiting til she gets out and going to weigh him - i have everything crossed he's put on weight today!! xxx

piccy in the gallery of him now and i'm going to keep updating that thread instead - after the weekends events i think little man deserves his own thread without the heartache that's in this one for his siblings xx


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