# Help!



## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

HI everyone, some of you may know some of my history from previous 

I have just learnt that she is pregnant! I thought she had a womb infection or possibly a phantom pregnancy. 

Today my vet has confirmed a pregnancy but wasn't able to say how many pups there were. 

We think she is due in the next week. 

I have nothing at all and no experience. I have a room I can designate for her. I have three other dogs.

I would really like to know how many pups she is having and when she is likely to give birth. I've read about a sheep scanner. How do you locate this? 

Any help would be appreciated please.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

hi, wow what a surprise for you was she from a rescue and was she mated to another airdale? a know of a sheep scanner but he is not in your area, hopefully someone will be along to help you with one near to you? there may also be someone on here who is near to you and maybe able to help you


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks very much for your prompt reply. I bought her from a breeder. The breeder is in as much shock as me. also have the date of her last season. 

I am trying to locate a sheep scanner but I've been told by one farmer that it is very expensive to call out for one dog. But I will keep trying. I just feel this information would be very helpful in terms of dates and how many pups to expect so I know they are all born. 

Also where on earth do you buy whelping boxes from? They don't stock them at my local pet shop!


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Did he say how far gone she is?????? You could get her scanned which the vet can do for you???? Not sure on the sheep scanner, unless you ask around, your vets may tell you someone who have one.??

Care of Mother Dogs and Puppies this link may be of interest to you.
I used a large carboard box and put in an old quilt with old towels on the top and newspapers at the bottom end of the box, or you could put lots of newpapers in a box for her and a thick towel for her to lay on. You will needs loads of newspaper as she will dig is all up and rip it making her nest for her puppies.
Heat Pad to keep puppies warm.
Nutri Cal.......which I gave a little of to bitch during hard laour and inbetween birthing of each puppies. I also had some vanilla ice cream and did the same as I did with the Nutri Cal. It will give her a boost of energy.
Phone number of vets at hand just in case.
Bowl of water to offer the bitch incase she is thirsty as she may not come out of the box to drink.

Breeding - Tie, Male and Female dog breeding tie This is an excellent site I read and gives you alot of information.

Nutri-Cal 4 5oz

These links will help you, and also you will have alot more information from other members on here with their experiences. xxxxxxxxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks for your reply. 

I had her scanned today to confirm the pregnancy as we weren't sure. My vet wasn't able to say how many there were, or due dates. But she guessed it would be around a week. Would be helpful to know more.


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

You can buy whelping boxes in that link I sent you for nutri Cal. Do you know when the dog and bitch Tied????? You could ask that breeder if she can give you some advice and help. She would know exactly what to do, even better if she lives near you to.
If you look at the link I gave you (first one) it will tell you about times, stages, and what to look out for etc............xxxxx


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I had her scanned today to confirm the pregnancy as we weren't sure. My vet wasn't able to say how many there were, or due dates. But she guessed it would be around a week. Would be helpful to know more.


Could they not see any puppies at all?, even one....... mind you if she is that far gone perhaps it will be hard to make anything out. They havent given you much information have they. Is that breeder living close to where you live?? maybe she can help you more with birthing.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Awww bless you, what a surprise - did they offer you a scan? 

There are a lot of lovely poeple on here that will beable to help you.
I have been reading up on it for ages, but i dont think i will 'ever be ready' iykwim, i think it is experience that counts in this game, could you have someone who has whelped a bitch before help?....as a first timer, i will make sure i have my vet on hand at the first sign of a problem that i am not comfortable to deal with.....keep calling them askign for advise, and if in doubt call them.
Cheryl, the lady above gives excellent advise. 

Sorry you have been put in this situation xxxx but i wish you all the best xxxx 

Love Gillyxxxx


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

I would get a large box and put loads of newpapers inside and a towel for her to lay on if she wants. Just in case your whelping things dont come through in time or you cant get one.
She will pee alot more often, and want to go poo too. Keep an eye on her if she goes out side at night or in the day just incase she thinks she wants to poo and in fact she is wanting to push.... keep a close eye on her for this week onwards. She will contantly lick herself (vulva) and will want you to be near her all the time, she will pant heavy and may shake alot too, you will notice the difference in her behavior as it will change altogether and sometime she will act very stangely, this means that she is starting labour. Have a read on that link i mentioned. ok...........xxxxxxxxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you welshcrazy and GillyR for your prompt replies. 

The scan showed definitely one pup but inconclusive about others. My vet there was probably at least two but she didn't think a big litter. 

No idea when she mated and her previous owner has no idea either! Previous owner doesn't understand how it happened as she insists my dog was separated from her studs during her last season.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Is this the dog that has had a c-section before? And if so, if your vet aware of this?


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

One of them obviously snuk in and had it wicked way with her at some point. There are alot of experienced people on here who will come in to help you out. When was her last season, and a labrador is quite a large dog too.
Just remember you can get alot of advice on here, but nothing compares to a vets advice if your not sure. ok....
You wont be alone as we are all here for you should you need to talk or ask questions on something ok.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you Nonnie. Yes my vet is aware of her c section, but didn't appear at all fazed by that. Apparently it doesn't follow that she will need one again but of course nothing certain. 

Welshcrazy, her last season started on August 26. That's all I know. Thanks for all your help so far.


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi there, you have to empty your inbox of messages, it is saying you cant receive my message because of it, ok lololol


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Well I hope for you it was the Airedale that got his way. I'm sure when the time comes there will be lots of us keeping you company. Make sure you read those links you were given it does help to have the info in your head, although saying that you don't remember everything but will be amazed when you need something you will remember reading about it and be able to go back. Good luck hope she doesn't need a c-sec and that its a nice size litter so you don't have to worry about the size of pups. I'll say 4 pups...Jill


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

Oh my god how bad of the breeder

Heres a few links to help you out

This is a good kit to have
DEFINITIVE Whelping Kit dog welping box puppy ID bands on eBay (end time 07-Nov-09 10:32:07 GMT)

This box is good 
Whelping box welping box 36inch x 36 inch BRAND NEW on eBay (end time 14-Nov-09 19:19:09 GMT)

This is a great book to have 
Book of the Bitch J.M. Evans Kay White pb NEW BOOK on eBay (end time 12-Nov-09 16:37:33 GMT)


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you Canuckgill for your positive comments. Very appreciated I do feel very nervous about everything. 

Nat 1979. I have ordered the book via Amazon and it will come tomorrow. As far as the whelping stuff goes do I really need all that stuff?!! Had no luck locating a whelping box that can't be delivered before next week. Will she need time to get used to it or is it okay to introduce it just before and hope for the best? I will be keeping a very very close eye on her from now on. Luckily I don't go to work so am available for her 24/7. 

Would be nice to know what day she is though. 

Again, thanks everybody so far for your help


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## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Out of interest, can a dog's pregnancy be terminated like humans?


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Thank you Canuckgill for your positive comments. Very appreciated I do feel very nervous about everything.
> 
> Nat 1979. I have ordered the book via Amazon and it will come tomorrow. As far as the whelping stuff goes do I really need all that stuff?!! Had no luck locating a whelping box that can't be delivered before next week. Will she need time to get used to it or is it okay to introduce it just before and hope for the best? I will be keeping a very very close eye on her from now on. Luckily I don't go to work so am available for her 24/7.
> 
> ...


Put in in the area you want her to have her puppies and she will go in and out looking and exploring it. on the day of her starting just put her in it, she will stay in there and she will want you there aswell. Hope your stuff comes through in time. I sent you two PM but they would'nt send...it says you have to empty your message box first lololol. 
Will you be getting the temp for her, if you take her temp every day, then in a couple of days do it twice a day and write it down you will see what her temperature is every day, on the day of labour her temperature will drop, on the drop she will go anytime with in the next 24 hours. xxxxx


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## gougher (Oct 28, 2008)

wow, quite a surprise, good luck with everything and make sure you post and let us know how it goes.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> Out of interest, can a dog's pregnancy be terminated like humans?


Yes it can up to a point.

There is the mismate jab which can be used up to 45 days i think.

Some vets will also perform a spay during early pregnancy (sometimes late depending on the reason).


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

I love this site for whelping aids:

Disposable dog whelping box from only £20.47 Delivered Tel 01273 588511

Good Luck!

Also:

Early Neurological Stimulation for Newborn Puppies - Chinaroad Lowchens of Australia -


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you Cassandra for your help. It is really appreciated and very kind of you. 

I will have a look at those links.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

if you are really stuck for a whelping box it is not the end of the world you could either use a large plastic bed and turn the dipped side round to face the wall so puppies cannot fall out or i do know some people have used a childs paddling pool for the birth of their puppies hopefully there is always someone on here when you need them at all hours it does make sense with the season date that she could be due in about a weeks time so i would watch her very carefully from now because they can go a week early? a sheep scanner would only charge about £20 if you can take her there or about £40 if they have to travel to you? a friend of mine had her little dog scanned very late in pregnancy as she didnt know she was pregnant for sure and the sheep scanner told her how far and how many and was spot on both good luck with your little girl and i too hope it was the other airdale


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you Archie. 

Yeah I certainly hope it was the le! I don't hold the breeders responsible for this though. I should make that clear. They genuinely had no idea that she was pregnant when they rehomed her. 

They are responsible breeders with all health tests done. I know that my dog has a good hip score as I have her certificate. I did speak to the previous owner and she thinks that maybe it was her airedale and not her labrador that got to her. So here's hoping. She has been off her usual food so I have given her puppy food with a chopped up boiled egg which she wolfed down! I am keeping a very close eye on her and she seems relaxed. 
Thank you for your help and kind thoughts.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

I forgot to say! I have ordered a whelping box with rails. In the meantime I have allocated a space for her in one of my rooms which is little used. I have put down a duvet in the corner of it which I hope she will think "that's looks like a nice spot to have my babies". 

Just to get her used to an area if she is fretting about that. I have a centrally heated house, do you think I need heat pads? Hope the whelping box comes early next week and we might be in business!


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## princessx87 (Feb 26, 2009)

Awwwwwwww POOR YOU! 

I do hope everything goes ok, I think an extra large box might be in order, As like you said you do need time to get her used to things before she starts to litter. With around a week to go i think you might be stuck...

I know some people add photos of their dogs so that breeders on here can help a little...I dont know if this would in your case..!

Sorry i have never had puppies....So im rubbish at this sort of thing :O lol


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## princessx87 (Feb 26, 2009)

Also just to add, There is a product with main breeders speak about getting in case a pup has some problems....Not sure what its called its a aid type thing!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

liquid life aid and dopram v  these are very good to have to hand at the birth of the puppies you can order them online at caninechemist.co.uk and there are other sites that stock them as well. i would definately get a heat pad or heat lamp, although your house is central heated the puppies do need a constant heat source at all times, cold is one of the biggest killer of puppies


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

i would also get some supplement puppy milk and feeding equipment which hopefully you wont need but in a case of emergency you have it all to hand is the breeder you purchased her from close to you? would she be willing to help you through the whelping?


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Thank you Canuckgill for your positive comments. Very appreciated I do feel very nervous about everything.
> 
> Nat 1979. I have ordered the book via Amazon and it will come tomorrow. As far as the whelping stuff goes do I really need all that stuff?!! Had no luck locating a whelping box that can't be delivered before next week. Will she need time to get used to it or is it okay to introduce it just before and hope for the best? I will be keeping a very very close eye on her from now on. Luckily I don't go to work so am available for her 24/7.
> 
> ...


Its always handly to have even if you dont use it 
I order one every time i have a litter 
If you cant get a whelping box before she has them i have a room for my girls had lino on the floor lots of newspaper and blankets


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm sure they would if I asked. They are not nearby though. They have kindly offered to refund the money we paid for her to help with expense, but we said not to worry as she is such a lovely dog. They are genuinely shocked. 
Okay liquid life aid, I will order some of that. So you think I need heat pads as well then. Okay I will order that too. Thank you Archie.


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Thank you Archie.
> 
> Yeah I certainly hope it was the airedale! I don't hold the breeders responsible for this though. I should make that clear. They genuinely had no idea that she was pregnant when they rehomed her.
> 
> ...


I would how can they not know ???? responsible breeders dont sound like it 
And i could ask so many more questions but thats not what you have come on here for

They are lots of people on here that will help you through this


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

No I think they are responsible. By that I mean they do the necessary health checks for breeding ie hip scores, eyes etc. They care about their animals. I think maybe they are just a bit chaotic. If you have about 30 dogs how do you keep track of all of them?

I don't hold them responsible, I guess it is just one of those things and it happens. As I said, they definitely had no idea.


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## casandra (Aug 1, 2008)

Petnap Limited Whelping kit

Same place as that disposable whelping box. I personally think this kit is almost perfect! Everything you could possibly need, including whelpi, though you still will need to source some dopram v & liquidlife.

And you even a set of scales to keep track of the progress of each baby with this kit!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Having difficulty sourcing liquid life aid. It seems to be aimed at farm animals. chemist direct was a confusing website. Please excuse my ignorance but what's dopram? Thanks for your help x


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Having difficulty sourcing liquid life aid. It seems to be aimed at farm animals. chemist direct was a confusing website. Please excuse my ignorance but what's dopram? Thanks for your help x


Liquid Life Aid : MedicAnimal.com It is for farm animals but can be used on pups etc

Dopram V 5ml-Hyperdrug
Dopram is a unique medicine NOT a dietary supplement. It contains DOXAPRAM which stimulates breathing and is similar to treatments used in caring for premature babies in hospital. DOPRAM V is given by placing 2-10 drops (depending upon the size of the animal and severity of the problem) under the tongue of the puppy or kitten.


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

the first post on this thread gives you a list of everything you should need

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/63813-whelping-kit.html

and hopefully this thread will explain abit more

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/63573-nutri-drops-liquid-life-aid-dopram-v.html


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

If you can't get a whelping box before next week then a cardboard box will do I have used one before now. For my whippet I think I got a big crisp box but for an airdale I would imagine would need a bigger bow if you can get hold of one..

If not loads of paper on the floor with blankets on top. One of my bitches whelped 6 days earlier then her due date and had her pups on the living room floor. It was completely covered in paper. Her box was at the shop waiting to be picked up I just hadn't been able to get their before the shop shut.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Two questions answered please.

Liquid life aid is aimed at farm animals. How do you know what to administer for puppies?

Dopram is a prescription only drug. Should I ask my vet for this?

I am going to try and upload a photo of my girl in the hope that some of you might be able to guess what day she is. I am guessing she is about day 50 but not at all sure. This is only surmised after a conversation with her previous owner.


Thank you all for your help and kindness so far.


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Two questions answered please.
> 
> Liquid life aid is aimed at farm animals. How do you know what to administer for puppies?
> Dopram is a prescription only drug. Should I ask my vet for this?
> ...


We are all here to help


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## terriermaid (Nov 5, 2007)

awww how exciting good luck with the birth , use old towels and newpaper for actual birth then vetbed when all the mess has finished lol


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

hi, the liquid life should be made up at 8ml llf to 92ml water to make 100ml and is given at 1ml per ounce body weight


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you for your replies. 

Here is a picture taken yesterday of my little girl. Any guesses what day she might be?


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Oh dear that hasn't worked. I'll try again


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Nope don't know how to do it!

Err Help!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Oh it's worked!!


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## Cat_Crazy (Jul 15, 2009)

She is beautiful!

Good luck with the birth and hope all goes well!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Looking at her Id say its going to be sooner than 13 days 

Iv read through the thread and sending good wishes to you and your girl, such a shock but you will have a wonderful experience. Great advice has been given to you already so just left for us all to wait with you  xx


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Going by the dates you gave me before I would say about 10th November approx. they can go a couple of days early or a couple of days later.
She look so sweet too. You havent long to go by the looks of her., Good Luck hun. xxxxxxxxxxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks everyone so far. More guesses please!!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks Terriermaid. 

Please excuse my ignorance but what's a vetbed? Where do I get that from?

Thanks!


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

well..... i am going to say the 11th november and 7 puppies


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

oh.... and can i have one please


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Vetbeds are fantastic, they are all fleecy on one side and rough backed. The material allows the wee to soak through the fleece down in to the backing keeping mum and pups dry, also helps the pups keep their heat, we used to change the vetbeds that were in the whelp box, when they were very weenie pups twice a day three times as they got bigger

Just Google vetbeds we got ours from the same place we got the whelp box from cant remember the website, I will go and have a search as they were really economical as some sites are quite pricy for not such big ones as we got. Will be back


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi again Found the web site its dog cages, dog cage, dog crate, dog crates, dog carriers, incubators, dog runs, dog cage covers, the fleeces are really good quality over a year on and we are still using them for the dogs as they love them as so cosy. They wash up really well and can be washed at a high temp.. and can be tumble dried. They dry so easily and quickly, we had found 4 or 5 was a good number to have as then your not pushed to get one washed and dried  They are a good investment as once pups have gone your girl will love them. This company dispatch within 48hrs

Im excited for you, Im sure shes not far away good luck :thumbup1:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you Mitch for your help. I've got the vetbed. I just went to pets at home to get it as I thought at least it will be one thing that I've sourced which is ready to go. Hoping the box and kit will arrive Tuesday, but either way Maisie is not going to have much time to think about whether she likes it or not!

I haven't yet received Book of the Bitch. That should come tomorrow. In the meantime I am reading lots of threads here. Am I right in say that if a puppy is breech, the bitch can't deliver normally?


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Please help me anyone that is online tonight. Maisie's temperature has dropped from 37.5 to 36.6 within three hours. 

I have no whelping box, no whelping kit, in fact nothing other than a vet bed which I bought at pets at home today.

Please help me I am so anxious and terrified about what's going to happen.

Please remember I have not put her to a stud dog. I have rehomed a pregnant dog! 

I just feel so anxious. Really frightened. There is no place for her to have her babies.

She doesn't have bedding normally. My dogs just sleep on the leather settees on the lounge!

What do I do?

What bedding is safe for puppies? I've got an old duvet I could use but is it safe? 

Maisie is okay and seems relaxed. It is just the temperature drop that worries me. 
Please help anyone!!


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Any panting or digging yet?

Try and keep calm so she does not get agitated.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

A bit of digging on the settee. She is trying to sleep now. 

I can't tell you how anxious I am. Thank you so much for replying so promptly.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Don't fret there is usually always someone on line to talk too here. Do you have a dog crate or an old box, if not find a quiet area or room and put lots of newspapers down in an area, if you have several old quilts, use one now and one after the birthing is over. While in labour just try to stay calm, put the blanket on the area you pick and put newspapers on top, she will want to dig. You will need lots of newspapers to keep changing when shes giving birth Make sure you keep a phone handy and the # of a local vet just in case ( phone calls are sometimes very reassuring).. Will keep checking back...Jill


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank God someone is there.

So frightened.

What should I do?


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

thats good that she is sleeping. she will need all her energy later.

If she needs to go out for a wee dont forget to take a torch with you just in case she suddenly decides to push one out then.

Regards the bedding. if you have nothing else then you could use the duvet...it may get torn up a bit and you would have to make sure the pups dont get caught up in it. Or place the vetbed on top of newspaper if you already have it.

Does she have a bed at all?

Dont worry too much as she is sleeping and calm at present 

xx


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Whats happening right now? She probably just needs your reassuance that everything is ok...Jill


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Miti, The main thing u need to remember is not to panick. Make sure u have the vets number and they will make sure ur ok. Ring them if u think anything is up or about to happen. Make sure ur heating is on and make sure u keep an eye on her x


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

deb53 said:


> thats good that she is sleeping. she will need all her energy later.
> 
> If she needs to go out for a wee dont forget to take a torch with you just in case she suddenly decides to push one out then.
> 
> ...


Yes I forgot about that still light here...Jill


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

I'm sure she will be just fine so don't panic. {{hugs}} Just have the vets number to hand just in case and try to keep calm so you won't worry your girl.
My sister had unexpected puppies quite a few years ago when her yorkie mated her 9 year old Bichon who have never had puppies before in her life and my sister knew nothing about it till she started giving birth and phoned me up in panic. I got my dog book out and was telling her what to do from the dog book. :laugh: She had four beautiful healthy puppies and had no whelping kit or anything like that and didn't even need a vet.

Oops just realised that sounds funny - it wasn't my sister that had the pups it was her dog.


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> Yes I forgot about that still light here...Jill


...why do bitches always choose the dead of the night LOL


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

It probably is instinct still left from being in the wild. Easier to hide at night....Jill


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Miti, is there no one u can call to come round and help? or maybe ring the vet and ask? And see if they could make a house call or something? x


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> It probably is instinct still left from being in the wild. Easier to hide at night....Jill


Yes bless them...matchsticks for eyes should be included in whelping kits!



Paws&Claws said:


> Miti, is there no one u can call to come round and help? or maybe ring the vet and ask? And see if they could make a house call or something? x


I shouldn't think a vet would make a house call when its only the drop of temperature.. She is peacful at present.


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Yeh but i thought maybe if things start happening? Or you rekon they'd be able to help over the phone? x


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

if her temp has only just dropped it could be several hours before she starts


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Paws&Claws said:


> Yeh but i thought maybe if things start happening? Or you rekon they'd be able to help over the phone? x


This stage can actually last quite a while. If she isn't pushing for more than an hour I don't think a vet will interven...Jill


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Checking in to see how things are going?

How's the owner doing?


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Paws&Claws said:


> Yeh but i thought maybe if things start happening? Or you rekon they'd be able to help over the phone? x


Well if the bitch is in trouble ie distressed, losing yukky green discharge, or pushing for a long time then maybe they would visit but usually they say to bring the bitch in just in case a c.section is needed but at present she is fine and snoozing.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Remember op deep cleansing breathes for yourself this could be a long night ..Jill


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

post # 57 


breech deliveries - 
======================== 
NO, breech or face-first are both perfectly normal! 
do not make Urself any more anxious than U already are,  

find a QUIET area away from the other dogs and any children or other 
pets, set her up in a room with a door that can close - if it is Ur bedroom, 
that is OK for a few days - then U can set-up an Ex-pen or some other 
safe space for her and the babies.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

My dogs don't do bedding! They just sleep on the leather settees in the lounge. Yep while I am sitting on a hard kitchen chair, the dogs are usually stretched out on the leather settees.!

I have got a duvet I can use. (I will use anything so long as she is okay.) I put it down in the corner of my little used room to get her used to the idea that this might be a good place to have her puppies. I worry that she is anxious about where she will have her pups because I have other dogs. I only have one (castrated) male though. She growls at him when he gets near!

This room is warm and cosy but all Maisie has done so far is wee and poop on in there every day! Please rememeber she is a kennelled dog, never lived in a house.

I never got to grips with the house training. I now realise that was probably complicated by her condition.

Maisie is resting now. Should I take her temp again do you think? 

I am sorry if I have panicked. 

Her temperature was stable at 37.5 on 5/11. It has gradually dropped everytime since then! Now it is 36.6. It was 37 at 8.30 this evening. 

Thank you so much for your guidance!!!! 

I am sorry to be such a whoos! 


Not sure how to spell wooos!


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Don't worry miti, people will help reassure you it's not like this was planned and bless you for taking her on...Jill


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Your doing very well, just take it slowly.
There are lots of people on here that will carry on helping you when the time comes.


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

miti999 said:


> I am sorry to be such a whoos!
> 
> Not sure how to spell wooos!


I think it's wuss  I like wooos though 

Good luck if she decides to have them tonight. I;m afraid I can;t be of much help though, I just stand here and mumble encouraging things 

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

hhaha you are no whoos, woss or what ever it is.

What ever room you decide then sit with Maisie and comfort her with soft words. As long as she is comfortable and the room is warm she will be fine. But no she will not want another dog around her. She will probably feel like she needs to wee and poo a bit. Some bitches have diahorrea before they give birth.

It may be a good while yet.


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

miti999 said:


> My dogs don't do bedding! They just sleep on the leather settees in the lounge. Yep while I am sitting on a hard kitchen chair, the dogs are usually stretched out on the leather settees.!
> 
> I have got a duvet I can use. (I will use anything so long as she is okay.) I put it down in the corner of my little used room to get her used to the idea that this might be a good place to have her puppies. I worry that she is anxious about where she will have her pups because I have other dogs. I only have one (castrated) male though. She growls at him when he gets near!
> 
> ...


IT's always good to check her temp.

My vet informed me the closer to the due date take the pet's Temp about 4 times a day!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you all for your help and kindness.

Maisie is lying quietly at the moment. Her delicate bit is wet. Though that could mean she has just we'ed somewhere!

I will keep a close eye for an hour or so. 

Do you think i should take her temperature again?

She seems quite relaxed. Unlike me! I am a bundle of nerves.


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Righto about the vet. It could be a while yet and since shes resting it should be ok for abit. Like someone has already said! Deep breathes for u too  x


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi Miti

You and your girl are going to be fine, she knows exactly what to do. Now deep breaths girl you can do this :thumbup1:. The main thing is like others have said stay calm, she will want to feel this from you. 

For her whelp bed = News paper, duvet, towels, sheets, save the vet bed for when the pups are born and you can leave them on this a corner of a room where she is able to be on her own would be good, your whelp box may come tomorrow and they can all go in thier litle safe haven then, my freinds little dog had her litter in the bottom of a wardrobe. 

The room is going to have to be kept warm day and night once the pups are born no draughts. If you have some hot water bottles this would be good to help keep the pups warm, wrap the bottle in a towel so not to get too hot. If you get concerned at all phone the vet they will take you through things and get to you if need be. Do you have any glucouse or any ice vanilla cream, this helps give the mum energy boosts between pups, the glucouse can be diluted in her water, Molly loved this whe she had her babies. 

Gosh love you. I know how worried you must be but your doing great keep us posted xxx


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

I wouldnt disturb her with doing her temp anymore, you know the pups are def... on their way just a matter of time. When she starts panting shivering and pushing then you know its iminent. Others may disagree here so I may be wrong but after a while I didnt want to upset our Molly with keep taking her temp..


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

keep us updated on the status of your pet!

Thanks


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

mitch4 said:


> I wouldnt disturb her with doing her temp anymore, you know the pups are def... on their way just a matter of time. When she starts panting shivering and pushing then you know its iminent. Others may disagree here so I may be wrong but after a while I didnt want to upset our Molly with keep taking her temp..


I agree with you. her temp is down we all no that and there really is no point taking it if she has started.

Any little shivers at all, licking?


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

mitch4 said:


> I wouldnt disturb her with doing her temp anymore, you know the pups are def... on their way just a matter of time. When she starts panting shivering and pushing then you know its iminent. Others may disagree here so I may be wrong but after a while I didnt want to upset our Molly with keep taking her temp..


I agree, that seemed like the big drop to me. If she settles right down again then take it in the morning, otherwise I'd just leave it....Jill


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you so much Mitch. 
I've got the ice cream in the freezer all ready for her. 

I don't expect the whelping box, whelping kiit, heat pad, liquid life aid, nutri drops and dopram (which is prescription only!) to be delivered until Tuesday at the earliest! I didn't have a pregnancy confirmed until Thursday of last week. It's not that I wasn't caring for her. It's just that as a kennelled dog, she was lovely and slim. I expect I treat them more than I should so I put her weight gain down to that for a week. But she suddenly had this big tummy. I thought it was something serious following the loss of my beauiful Molly. Womb infection, phantom pregnancy as I knew she had had a season late August. 

I had to sit down when the vet told me! 

She is relaxed at the moment still. Should I take her temp again?


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## TORY (Nov 27, 2007)

Best to let her rest.....

And you have a nice cupa and chill.....


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

TORY said:


> Best to let her rest.....
> 
> And you have a nice cupa and chill.....


I agree with that! Have a cuppa while u still can  x


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Your doing absolutely great by her. Our Molly was very slim until the last 10 days and didnt really drop until the last 7.

Shes settled now so it could be several hrs before things progress, just stay with her quietly and she will feel relaxed, this will make the birth so much easier for her

As already said nice cuppa and I found chocolate buttons were a god send For me that is  Coffee kept me awake until she started to pant and push then adrenelin sets in and you get your second wind.

Try to relax and enjoy this experience your doing all you can for your girl, its been thrown at you but dont miss the opportunity to take it all in and enjoy it, its a wonderful experience, your not as prepared as youd like to have been but shes got you, you know to call the vet if it gets beyond you so she and her soon to be pupsters are in the safest hands possible and thats all she needs and wants :001_wub:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank God we've established how to spell wuss!

If nothing else is learnt tonight. . . . . .



Fingers crossed.

Maisie is resting. 

Perhaps I should be ?

Sorry guys if i have panicked. But she seems quite relaxed. 

But I sense something is happening. She is acting strangely but not to your rule books. 

Lots of digging


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

She'll probs start licking alot soon, miti! x


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## belleboris (Oct 8, 2009)

Lol belle had me up for a week digging and such before she did go to whelp .
I was also only given 10/14 days from finding out to when she had them by a scanner so had to get all the kit i could .
I got all i could and it all went well she now has 8 stunning 7 day old pups .
I wish you all the best .


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## TORY (Nov 27, 2007)

Digging.....is good...there is no rule book... and she might try to rip thing to..its all part of it ...just tell her everything is ok and let her do her thing...
loads are here to help....



oh...i forgot a p in cupPa....


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Molly dug a lot the day before she actually gave birth maybe theres a little longer to go, temp suggests its in the next few hours. Molly was in 1st stages of labour from 7am till the first pup was born at 11.50pm, so when you thinkoh my a pups on its way, you are probably several hrs away. Have you noticed any shivering this is a clear sign things are really on the move 

Wuss now I always though it was spelt wooss, wev all learnt something tonight  xx


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Thank God we've established how to spell wuss!
> 
> If nothing else is learnt tonight. . . . . .
> 
> ...


Whilst she is resting you should try (easier said than done I know) to get some rest.

I wont be able to stay on much longer as i took my meds earlier before you posted and they really are beggining to kick in.

So after this cuppa i must say goodnight.

I truely hope all goes well for you both tonight and maybe when i log on in the morning pups will be here.

xx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

she seems relaxed now. 

Sorry guys if I have panicked you. 

But, I can't tell you how nice it is that you are there. 

Thank You.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Your doing great agree with everyone else have a nice cuppa and relax, try to have a sleep as this can go on for 24 hrs or more before actual labour starts....jill


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Sorry I think I meant panicked myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

re post #92 

as was posted before by others, i would let the temp slide - 
not fussing her but letting things take their course, and just being 
watchful without being in a complete panic, LOL - :yikes:

which i know from long experience is *incredibly* difficult, but try to bear in mind that dogs and humans have been doing this for millions of years... it is not risk-free, but it is a pretty good system. 
as long as she is in no apparent distress, have some faith. 
let her be for a bit, read a book, knit, ... 

get together a KIT for the birth 

* sterilized scissors or knife, 
* medical alcohol for the umbilical stumps, 
* TOWELs to dry the pups, 
* newspaper to roll the placentae up in -- 
let her eat one to get her milk going, but unless she is a BIG dog over 90#, 
2 is pushing it, and 3 or more will give her diarrhea. 

* gauze pads for wiping stumps with alcohol, 
* sterilized thread or string to tie off the cords before cutting - 
tie on BOTH sides, pup-side and mom-side, away from both of them 
near the MIDpoint - then CUT in between the tied strings. 

Count each pup as they are born, and coUnT ! the placentae - 
there has to be one afterbirth for each pup, if not she must go to the vet 
to have any leftovers removed.


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## TORY (Nov 27, 2007)

My bitch did the same...had a dummy run.....

A good week before the pups came.

Then she jumped on my lap one morning to say morning, turned and look at lower end and first pup was born,she had 8 on my lap.....bless her


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you so much everybody for your kindness and for being there tonight for reassurance.

Please go to bed!

I will post when I have any news. She is still resting (on my leather settee of course!)

Thank you all so much.

I will keep all my other dogs away when the time comes. (I'm sure they will cope for one night! wusses!).

Thank You xxx


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Your doing great

Im having to log off now but remember any concerns phone your vet, they will not mind and can give advice over the phone or get out to you. 

When the pups start coming just give quiet reassurance and encouragement to mum she should lick them all clean and dry, if you think her pups are coming faster than she has time to dry them off, feel confident to dry them off with a warm clean towel, also if when the pup comes out in the sac mum is reluctant to break the sac or at the end is too tired, again be confident to break the sac with your finger and encourage mum back to the pup to continue her job, she will instinctively know what to do. When there is a break between pups the already born pups should be suckling on mum. A little seperate box with a hot water bottle is a good handy thing to have so already born pups can be lifted in to here when another pup being born.

Sorry this is not in any order but trying to think on my feet for you

When I log on tomorrow bet we have a litter of tinies

Lots and lots of luck :thumbup1: xxxxxx 

Remember Plenty of towels caffeine and chocolate order of the day


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

TORY said:


> My bitch did the same...had a dummy run.....
> 
> A good week before the pups came.
> 
> Then she jumped on my lap one morning to say morning, turned and look at lower end and first pup was born,she had 8 on my lap.....bless her


  knew where she was safe then :thumbup1:


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Thank you so much everybody for your kindness and for being there tonight for reassurance.
> 
> Please go to bed!
> 
> ...


Ok tea finished and really cant focus now so I must be off.

Night night everyone

and big hug to Maisie


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## TORY (Nov 27, 2007)

deb53 said:


> Ok tea finished and really cant focus now so I must be off.
> 
> Night night everyone
> 
> and big hug to Maisie


Night..Night....


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

How is she today?


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## TORY (Nov 27, 2007)

Any news......:001_huh:


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Hello there, How is she doing this morning. any news???????? Just TRY to keep calm if you can. Make sure everything is nice and warm for those puppies. Plenty of coffee to keep you awake and ice cream like I mentioned for mummy lololol good luckxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi everyone! 

No news. Maisie's temp was back up to 37.5 at 8am this morning. 

Will update when something else happens to freak me out!

Thanks everybody x


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Glad things are ok

May be it would be an idea to get someone to pop to a pet shop and buy the biggest plastic dog bed available, my friends dalmation gave birth in one of these didnt want to use the whelp box.

will check in again tonight xx


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Glad to hear everythings ok  x


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

whelping box arrived! Woohoo!


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Checking in on you and your baby


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Miti, Glad to hear the welping box has arrived! Get a corner set up quick! lol x


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

* whew*... (wiping brow)... 
supplies are GOOD, yay! i am glad to hear things are copacetic. 
happy dam, happy babies - all my best wishes to U and them, 
--- terry


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks everyone for all your support.

Book of the Bitch arrived! 

Hoping whelping kit tomorrow 

and the rails which I forgot to order when I ordered the whelping box!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Way haaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy whelping box and book of the Bitch she can have her 21 pups now


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

checking in on you!


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi there,, Just a quick look in on you to find out how she is doing today.???? You wont be waiting much longer now.....xxxxxx


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

Good luck, for information when my girl was having her litter, she wanted to pee a lot, but was only passing small amounts, I noticed a "plug" of mucus come from her, and a few hours later she started getting a little aggitated(her first litter) I had a big welping box, because she is a large breed and I wanted room to be able to get in with her if needed, the first pup arrived, she was not sure what happened, I broke the sac while the mum licked the pup and stimulated it, I also did the cord, because mum was being very heavy handed and I was concerned she would damage the pups tummy. after that she did everything, the pups were feeding off her as soon as she finished cleaning them up and in between the other pups arriving. she had a break inbetween some pups, it lasted two hours, I was concerned about this an took her to emergency vets, leaving the other babies under a heat lamp and my daughters supervision, willow was given a shot of oxy and a few mins later deleivered a pup in the surgery, we came home for her to deleiver her last pup at home. it all went smoothly. 2nd litter not so good, watch for any green gunk coming from your girl, if you see that GET TO THE VET IMMEDIATELY.

something I noticed about it being mentioned Icecream? for her? I would personally not risk giving this because of the calcium, I would just give her diluted Welpi or maybe some chicken broth or even some frozen/cool plain yoghurt

mo


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks everyone and thanks Moboyd for all that info. 

This morning Maisie has a very wet bottom and her bits are very swollen. She has also got string muscusy stuff there too. 

Other than that she has an appetite and seems relaxed. 

No sign of the whelping kit yet, fingers crossed for today.


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Thanks everyone and thanks Moboyd for all that info.
> 
> This morning Maisie has a very wet bottom and her bits are very swollen. She has also got string muscusy stuff there too.
> 
> ...


sounds like she is getting near, if the welping box hasnt arrived, I would just remove your other dogs, put loads of towels down with paper on top and get her settled there, she can then rip up the paper and the towels will soak up any mess during labour, have a comfy chair or something for you to be able to sit with her. once the box arrives if she has already had the pups just transfer her and the pups into the box placing some of the towels/bedding you have used so that the scent is there and she should soon settle down, make sure wherever you place her you have her out of drafts. maybe in a corner of the room.

mo


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

moboyd said:


> Good luck, for information when my girl was having her litter, she wanted to pee a lot, but was only passing small amounts, I noticed a "plug" of mucus come from her, and a few hours later she started getting a little aggitated(her first litter) I had a big welping box, because she is a large breed and I wanted room to be able to get in with her if needed, the first pup arrived, she was not sure what happened, I broke the sac while the mum licked the pup and stimulated it, I also did the cord, because mum was being very heavy handed and I was concerned she would damage the pups tummy. after that she did everything, the pups were feeding off her as soon as she finished cleaning them up and in between the other pups arriving. she had a break inbetween some pups, it lasted two hours, I was concerned about this an took her to emergency vets, leaving the other babies under a heat lamp and my daughters supervision, willow was given a shot of oxy and a few mins later deleivered a pup in the surgery, we came home for her to deleiver her last pup at home. it all went smoothly. 2nd litter not so good, watch for any green gunk coming from your girl, if you see that GET TO THE VET IMMEDIATELY.
> 
> something I noticed about it being mentioned Icecream? for her? I would personally not risk giving this because of the calcium, I would just give her diluted Welpi or maybe some chicken broth or even some frozen/cool plain yoghurt
> 
> mo


Yes I gave Teigan some ice cream eat during hard labour and after each puppy birth, she loved it. The lady I got Teigan from uses it with hers (not just this she do have proper medication). she said it do give them a booste. I cant see haveing a little ice cream will do much with the calcium issue, as it isnt given through pregnancy. xxx

edit,;;;;; Teigan wouldnt touch water etc, so this did help her have something.


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Certainly sounds like she is on her way.

Just want to say hope all goes well. Damm looks like I will miss it. I am having a procedure on my back tomorrow so wont be around until Thursday.

So good luck and hopefully when I log back in on Thurs you will have a beautiful healthy litter.

Good luck xx


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

good luck x


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

seems like you will have pups soon!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

M is resting and seems relaxed. She still has an appetite for food.

While I am playing a waiting game I thought I would ask your opinions about whether you should cut the cord or whether you should let Mum chew the cord herself? 

Also, I haven't been able to source glucose powder but I have got glucose syrup. Could I dissolve this in water instead? 

Got whelping kit and the rails came too!

How do you mix up Whelpi as I didn't understand the instructions on the tin??!

Thank You!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Just taken Maisie's temperature because she was panting and seemed distressed.

Her temp was 98 which is the highest its been since I started taking them.

Does the temperature increase during 1st stage? It doesn't say so in the botb.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Sorry I meant 38


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Temperature back down to 36.3. Obviously my thermometer has gone into a flat spin!


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## ninja (Jan 4, 2009)

i really wouldnt bother taking her temp anymore now 

doesnt sound as if it will be to long before you will get to see her pups anyway


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks Ninja.

She seems restless, but trying to relax if that makes any sense. She is digging with her paws. But she is not in her whelping box just on the settee.

She has eaten her food though. I haven't noticed any change in her appetite at all.


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

You should see a puppy soon. Stage 1 of whelping could last a few hours or so. Depends on how may litters she has had!

Keep us updated!


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

hope it all goes ok for you, it looks like puppies will be soon


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Maisie is panting again. 

Should I encourage her into her whelping box or leave her alone? 

Her lady bits are dry whereas this morning they were wet with stringy mucus.

Stopped panting now. Something is obviously bothering her. 

Do dogs get braxton hicks? 

Other than that no other signs. She has eaten supper. 

She has had one previous litter. But as I only just rehomed her I don't know how her whelping went.


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Maisie is panting again.
> 
> Should I encourage her into her whelping box or leave her alone?
> 
> ...


Is she digging, panting can start and stop. They go off thier food prior to labour...


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

She's done a bit of digging on the settee. 

The panting is intermittent. Not panting at the moment.

Thanks Welsh!

One other thing as I posted before.

Do you let them chew the cord or do you cut it yourself?


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

It sounds like she is in first stages of labour which can go on for hours, try putting her in the whelping box and see how she goes. 
AS far as the cord..... watch her while she is chewing off the cord, as some dogs chew too much and too close to the puppies bellies. I usually pinch the cord about inch from tummy as Teigan was a bit rough chewing on the first cord of her first pup so I made sure I had the cord inbetween my fingers to stop her going any closer on the second onel..

I havent used Whelpi puppy milk so dont know the instructions to give you, but someone will tell you on here soon ok.

If she goes out for poo go with her, as it is dark out now and will need to be watched, as some dogs have been known to birth a pup thinking she is wanting a poo. (pushing).


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

miti999 said:


> She's done a bit of digging on the settee.
> 
> The panting is intermittent. Not panting at the moment.
> 
> ...


I replied to this for you,...........I have never cut any cords, but I had pinched and let mummy dog chew the cord.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you!!!

I am keeping a very close eye on her. Resting now. I think you are right though as she hasn't acted like this before.


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

This is it they act really out of character, I think she is definatly in first stages, and the length of time is different from one dog to another, I wouldnt bother with the temperature it will only aggitate her. she will lick her vulva constantly over and over, this will be her getting ready for puppy to pop out.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

xxwelshcrazyxx said:


> Is she digging, panting can start and stop. They go off thier food prior to labour...


mine ate right upto having the first puppy and then inbetween


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

My Teigan used to get into her box and start to pant and pant and stare at me,glazed eyes.......then she would stop, then after 20 mins she would be off again. When Teigans pups were due to be born she was contantly licking her vulva all the time,,, really going for it. That is how I knew one was on its way.


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> mine ate right upto having the first puppy and then inbetween


Yes that is true enough, tht is why I mentioned to her that each dog is different. My Teigan ate up to about hour before starting the panting stage. And the little bugger decided to get out after 2 hours and start to play with my other dog in the next room. then back into her box again.


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

xxwelshcrazyxx said:


> Yes that is true enough, tht is why I mentioned to her that each dog is different. My Teigan ate up to about hour before starting the panting stage. And the little bugger decided to get out after 2 hours and start to play with my other dog in the next room. then back into her box again.


yes i have had that too, they do like to keep us on our toes dont they


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

archiebaby said:


> yes i have had that too, they do like to keep us on our toes dont they


They certainly do, at one stage Teigan had a lovely rest for 2 hours, and I thought ....hang on now what you up to,...as she was acting like she wansnt in labour, then after those two hours had gone she was back in the box and never came back out after that. probably having her last two hours of fun before becoming a mum lololoo.


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Hope you and mummy are doing well at the moment, hang tight and keep an eye on her she will be fine. I have to go out and drop my brother in law to a meeting, and have to wait for him to come out as it is too far to drive there and back and then go back again, waste of journey. So i am hoping you will be ok and she have her puppies real soon for you, I hope everything goes well for you, there will be people on here to ask if you need help ok, but the best help in a bad situation is your vet ok. Not that you will have any bad situation as I think she will be fine. Once puppies are born she may not want to come out of the box and go into the garden for a pee, so put some papers down on the floor for her and you will have to offer her water to drink after birthing as she MAY not come out for drink. good luck, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Hoping to pop back on her when I come back. ok..


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Good luck :thumbup1:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi anybody that is still awake!

Maisie has continued as before. 

She occasionally digs, hasn't panted since about 6pm though. 

I am staying up with her tonight, really comfy on a settee!

She is sleeping soundly at the moment. 

Thanks guys for all your help and wisdom. x


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I'll be on and off so keep the updates going....Jill


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Still keeping a peep out for you, but off to bed now will log in in the morning

best wishes to you both xxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks Jill. 

Are you really in Canada?

Stupid question, I sound like a kid!


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## belleboris (Oct 8, 2009)

im goinng to be up most of the night with pups s ill be here 

ALSO on the sofa that has been my bed for 4 weeks now


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

not a dumb question. Yep I'm really in Canada, but thankful I'm in Alberta not BC with the Olympics coming, its going to be creazy.....Jill


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Oh Hi Belle boris! What's up with your pups?


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi Jill, what time is it in Canada? !!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Belleboris just read your recent post. 

So sorry but wishing everything will be okay. 

Such hard work by the sounds of it. 

So distressing for you as well. 

Lots of love sent.

Wish I could help more.


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## belleboris (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks lol yer hard work but belle is so worth it and im sure the pups owners will think the same abut there pups  
if you want ill send you my number you can phone me if needed all is still fresh in my mind ?


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Good Morning to you, how are you getting on, I came backonline after to see if there was any news, but nothing. Hope you are ok and really hope there are puppies there now. let us know how you get on. zxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

No puppies Welsh.seems relaxed. 
Slept well last night unlike me. Got a real crick in my neck from being on the settee.

She has done a bit of digging around in her box now but nothing earnest.

I'll update on my stiff neck as the day progresses.

As I don't suppose will have any news! Ho hum.

Here's pix I took yesterday.

View attachment 33788
[/ATTACH]


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

miti999 said:


> No puppies Welsh. Maisie seems relaxed.
> Slept well last night unlike me. Got a real crick in my neck from being on the settee.
> 
> She has done a bit of digging around in her box now but nothing earnest.
> ...


Aww look at her, she'll keep you guessing right up to the last minute, by the time she is finished with you, you will have back ache too , I DID. from sitting up by the box rubbing Teigan's back and tummy, but did he do it for me NO she didnt, little madam was enjoying it lolol


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

I understand the waiting game! My dog Miss Piggy is doing it to me! Due any minute! 

Keep us updated!


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Little buggers eh!. all worth it when it goes well though. I cant wait to see all these new puppies,:thumbup1:


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## nat1979 (Jan 2, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Maisie is resting and seems relaxed. She still has an appetite for food.
> 
> While I am playing a waiting game I thought I would ask your opinions about whether you should cut the cord or whether you should let Mum chew the cord herself?
> Also, I haven't been able to source glucose powder but I have got glucose syrup. Could I dissolve this in water instead?
> ...


I do mine so stop problems


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

No change today. 

Still waiting. . .


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

It will be worth it.. Waiting with you....Jill BTW the time here is noon


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

miti999 said:


> No change with Maisie today.
> 
> Still waiting. . .


Checking In!


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

*Any News?
Been watching this thread with Interest, hope all goes well for you & mummy*


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Aww I've just found this thread, Maisie is gorgeous 

We used to have an airedale near us, called Garth, they are nice doggies!

Can't wait for puppies, you best put us lots of photos up now you've got the art of it mastered 

Good Luck Maisie xx


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## Spaniel mad (Jul 17, 2009)

Good luck xx


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Well I really thought I would miss it!!

Was lying on the hospital bed yesterday thinking bet Maisie has had her pups and I have missed it!

Woo Hoo hopefully today then.

Good luck

Thinking of you both x


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Fingers and toes crossed - best of luck !!!:thumbup:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Maisie is still eating and resting. 

I have noticed that she doesn't seem to be drinking very much and her nose is a bit dry. 

I have began to put water into her meals so I know she has taken some fluids. 

Any ideas why she wouldn't be drinking as much? It's just been the last couple of days. Other than that she seems fine. 

Her temp was 37 this morning.


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Hi xx

I wouldnt worry too much about her fluid intake. If she is eating and you are adding it to her food, she most likely is getting enough. Although i have heard that some do go off there feed when close to labour? 

As for glucose, i think you can get the powder from the chemist.

The cords, some leave it to the moms to do....although i have heard they can nibble them off too low causeing problems, or can be a bit rough... i think i am just going to see how molly goes....


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks Gilly

I thought probably it is her special mum-to-be diet after I posted.

She normally just has dry dog food (Orijen) but she is having wet food because she doesn't want her usual kibble. 

So I suppose she is getting fluids that way as well which would explain the difference. 

Temp 37.2 at the mo. Discharge is there too. Yellowy colour


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

that could be the plug xx


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Good Morning!

Hope all is well!


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

it is 16.40pm here, and just signing in to find out how my little lady is doing today........... Now listen here Maisie, this is Aunty Cheryl speaking.....you dont have to cross your legs and hold it in any longer, it is now time for you to have your little puppies, we are all waiting for your babies to come into the world.....we are giving you permission to go into labour and gets these little ones out for us to see ok...so get a move on woman :thumbup1: .....lolololol


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

xxwelshcrazyxx said:


> it is 16.40pm here, and just signing in to find out how my little lady is doing today........... Now listen here Maisie, this is Aunty Cheryl speaking.....you dont have to cross your legs and hold it in any longer, it is now time for you to have your little puppies, we are all waiting for your babies to come into the world.....we are giving you permission to go into labour and gets these little ones out for us to see ok...so get a move on woman :thumbup1: .....lolololol


Ha ha ha - will be signing off for the eve in a min, but loads of luck and loving gentle vibes being sent to mommy nana and bambinos xxx
Will check in tomorrow xxxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi everyone.

Maisie is relaxed and resting. Temp steady at 37.3. Still leaking a slight discharge. Being very fussy with food. I opened a tin of salmon and gave her some of that which she did eat!

Preparing myself for the third night on the settee. She slept in her whelping box last night mostly and did some digging around which woke me up everytime. That's it. 

While I continue to play waitie waitie, I was reading through again Mollysmum's thread "a very shy hello". 

Molly had three pups but retained all the placentas which blocked the birth canal. 

I don't know but I assume that Molly chewed through the placenta before it was passed so I was wondering whether it was an idea to hold onto the end of the cord that's still in the canal and gently pull while mum is (hopefully) busy seeing to pup as a way around this potential difficulty?

Also, what is the stethoscope for included in the whelping kit? 

Have included today's pick of Molly's tummy x


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Maisie is relaxed and resting. Temp steady at 37.3. Still leaking a slight discharge. Being very fussy with food. I opened a tin of salmon and gave her some of that which she did eat!
> 
> ...


The mother usually chews the cord off and then pulls on the other part of the cord to pull the placenta out herself. The thing is you could be holding onto the piece of cord for over an hour until the next puppy comes, also they are usually pushed out with the next puppy as it is being born if it havent come out before hand. Just count each placenta there have to be one for each puppy born, if there is not then you will have to phone vet and he will give her an injection to make it come out.

If you have the complete whelping kit, then here is a llink to tell yo what each thing is for ok,

Whelping List


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Hello

its such a good thread she has everyone waiting


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

I think Maisie's water just broke or one of her waters I don't know!!

But a big gush of something all over my living room floor but I didn't see her do it so it could be a wee!!!!

Will update


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## PennyH (Dec 30, 2008)

OOoh how exciting.
Hoping all goes well for Maisie. My first dog was an airedale and i have a real soft spot for them.
My grand dad used to breed them many, many years ago and my mum always had airedales.
Will keep checking for updates and hope Maisie is ok.

xx


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## archiebaby (Feb 25, 2008)

miti999 said:


> I think Maisie's water just broke or one of her waters I don't know!!
> 
> But a big gush of something all over my living room floor but I didn't see her do it so it could be a wee!!!!
> 
> Will update


was there any little bits in the water?


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

GOOD LUCK ... I wish my Miss Piggy's water would break1


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

No bits just fluid. Clear. It was all over a dark brown dogbed that was on the floor and on the floor itself. But it was a clear fluid just a lot of it. I wouldn't thought she could hold that much wee now. So I immediately thought this is a water bag.

As it was clear fluid I assume it was a wee. She is resting now. 

She's not eaten much today though.


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## ann1981 (Nov 12, 2009)

I wish you all the luck with everything but i'm sure you'll be fine. A similair thing happened to me recently. I rehomed a Staffie then 6 weeks later she had 8 pups i managed to survive so i'm sure you will.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Maisie not settling. Got her into her whelping box. She is panting a digging a bit. 

I will try and take her outside to see if she wants to do anything


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

*Make sure you take her out on her lead & with a torch!!!
She may think she wants a poo when its actually a puppy.

It does sound like her water bag has burst.
It isn't always tea/pee coloured, ive had friends say its been nearly clear.

When our girls bag broke we had a pup within the hour.

Wishing you all the very best & we are all here to help if needed x*


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Fingers and paws crossed here for you both


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

wishing u the best!!!

keep us updated!:thumbup1:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

she's in her whelping box, resting.

I am staying with her will update if anything further develops


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

Good luck! 

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

If it was her bag, how long should the next stage last ? I should know this!!

It's amazing, when the time might have come, you've forgotten everything you've read!

Can't remember anything at all now.


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

*It can be very short. They just seem to change from digging panting to pushing.
Or it can take a few hours.....
Her whole tummy will tighten & you will see a deep ridge right up the centre of her tummy as the contractions get stronger, you really can't miss it.

Just keep calm, and shout if you are at all concerned.
Make sure you have the phone near you if you think you need your vet but trust your instincts throughout.

Good Luck hun x*


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## Lucy Fleming (Nov 8, 2009)

Just logged on Miti999 - does it look like tonight may be the night for Maisie, do you think? Will keep a look out on here for as long as I can.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

panting heavily.

What's the difference between panting heavily and a dam in distress?

It looks very distressing for her. 

I will check for ridge


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## TORY (Nov 27, 2007)

Is she shaking...


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

No just panting heavily.. should she be shaking if she is in labour? or if she is in distress?


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

its usually a real deep pant. Any shivers or ripples down her flanks?

Dont forget the torch if she goes out side for a wee and a pen/paper to keep track of how many placentas get passed.

Good luck hun.. hopefully pups by morning

xx


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Should be very close to having pups!

I'm jealous!

Is she is in stress she will be acting weird and will make you seem worried. Birthing is something that is a strain on all dogs but when she is in trouble you will know.

GOOD LUCK!:thumbup1:

Keep us updated!


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

*Panting heavily is fine. Is she quivering with the contractions?
It does look stressful but she needs to work them down into place.

Don't forget to offer her sips of glucose water.
Also turn the heat pad on ready to keep any pups warm inbetween her giving birth.

Make yourself a flask of tea/coffee so you can stay with her.

You are doing well... just keep calm x*


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Your doing ok, Molly panted heavily towards the first pup being born and she really looked uncomfortable she paced dug and went to the whel box and dug and turned panted, its stressful the first time you see it in your dog as its so out of the norm but as the first pup was just abbout to be born she slowed right down and pushed hard against the whelp box and you could see her straining, holding her breath and pushing hard this took a few mins and then pup was born from this point she didnt appear to strain at all and the other 6 pups were born within 10/15 mins of each other so she had very little time to nurse/clean them so we helped a lot, she did do her bit though with all of them but they did come along like buses wait ages for one then several come all at once 

Take it easy and phone your vet if at all worried thyey wont mind answering your questions however small they appear to you 

Good luck


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

im not mum im daughter, mum is with maisie. she cant see her tummy as she is sitting up right on her bum, shes is panting very heavy, not sure if she is in distress, seems uncomfortable?


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Molly shivered a little while before the first pup x


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## Lucy Fleming (Nov 8, 2009)

It looks like it is really happening! 

What great advice you are getting from these experienced people - I am glued now!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Me Again Molly took this position sitting upright on her bum just before her first pup was born xx


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

*Has she what seems like a lump under her tail?
If so that will be a puppy getting ready to enter the world.

Let Maisie find her own way of staying comfortable.... she will know what feels right.

Everyone here to help x*


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

to me and mum she looks very distressed, her eyes arent focusing properly, rolling up in her head.. we dont no what the difference would be between her being in labour or clearly very distressed.. help!! getting worried.


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

If you are both really concerned phone your Vet.

But remind your mum of how she felt giving birth and the energy it zaps...


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Love phone the vet just get some reassurance from them 

Stay calm sweet as shes going to need you both to be calm for her xx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

shes stopped panting and shes grooming her paws? i dont no what that means.


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

Maybe resting inbetween... keep a eye on her 

This stage can last a while, you are both doing well.

Panting digging resting etc


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Shes having a little rest re couping some energy for the next contraction


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Is she pushing at all?

Any green discharge?

This stage of panting and the pups moving into position can be very traumatic for a maiden bitch.

Hopefully she will start to push soon and first pup wil appear. 

Unfortunatly the panting can go on for a while before the pushing starts.

Lots of soothing words and little drinks will help her anxiousness.


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## loverbull (Nov 9, 2009)

Well I would say that means she's in labour. Mine do that..........panick me then act like nothing has happened LOL!
Just stay calm she will know what to do. If you feel like she is distressed in any way give your vet a call.

Good luck xxxxx


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Things will go fine!

Let us know when she has the first one!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Seems calmer now..


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Seems calmer now..


thats good xxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

in and out of whel box, but panting still..


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

*Thats great  she sounds like she is doing really well.

Just checked my notes & we had the first pup 1hour & 20mins after the water bag broke.*


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Have you phoned your vet to alert them? (i havent read everything).

I would still be very concerned as she had a c-section previously. She may have whelping problems.

Hope it goes smoothly.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

ok thanks.. its been about an hour i think since maisies broke..


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## Lucy Fleming (Nov 8, 2009)

Small~Fluffy said:


> *Thats great  she sounds like she is doing really well.
> 
> Just checked my notes & we had the first pup 1hour & 20mins after the water bag broke.*


Well, Small-Fluffy, I am going to go now as I can't stay up sadly for Maisie's first pup. Will log in asap in am. Good luck, Miti999 and Maisie xx


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

*night night Lucy *


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

ok thanks for all your help! will keep you updated tomorrow!


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## TORY (Nov 27, 2007)

Have you had a cuppa.....


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

in whel box, panting and grooming alternativley.. cant spell! seems to be ok, mum is coping very well.. i've got to go work tomorrow so im going to try and sleep, mum will update as soon as she can, thank you all again for your help.. so exciting!!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

will be keeping an eye for a little while longer tonight 

Your all doing so well xxx


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## Small~Fluffy (Mar 13, 2009)

Well good luck to your mum & Maisie xx


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## TORY (Nov 27, 2007)

miti999 said:


> in whel box, panting and grooming alternativley.. cant spell! seems to be ok, mum is coping very well.. i've got to go work tomorrow so im going to try and sleep, mum will update as soon as she can, thank you all again for your help.. so exciting!!


Night..night

I will stay on to see how things go....


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## kerrybramble (Jun 2, 2009)

wow what a time to start reading this! good luck, sounds like she is doing well! has her water broke yet? (sorry havent read all the pages)


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## TORY (Nov 27, 2007)

How are you both....

anything yet?


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## kerrybramble (Jun 2, 2009)

i think maybe something has happened, its been awhile! how exciting!


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

miti999 said:


> ok thanks for all your help! will keep you updated tomorrow!


You have us on our toes!

Can't wait to see pictures!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Unbelievably, Maisie is now fast asleep.

No idea at all what is going on. 

I would have bet my life she was in labour hour or so ago with all that heavy panting, but now she is resting quietly. 

She had a drink and laid down!

Is this the lull before the storm or another false alarm?

I am at a complete loss. 

But she doesn't seem to be in any distress. If nothing has happened by morning I will phone my vet and get her to come round and see.

Sorry for the anticlimax.


----------



## kerrybramble (Jun 2, 2009)

bramble did this all night to me! you know when they on their way when the water is broken, dont worry about her stopping before then x


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

I don't know if it was her water. It was an extremely large wee if it wasn't. 

She has been urinating frequently and often. I can't see how she could have held so much wee in her. 

But she fast asleep.

How stressful this is!

I am going to try and get some rest while she is. 

Will update if I can if anything starts happening again. 

Thanks everybody for all your help


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## kerrybramble (Jun 2, 2009)

i knew brambles as it came as a sack! she was weeing all night and started pushing at half 9


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## belleboris (Oct 8, 2009)

My belle did this to me for a week before did spels of heavey panting digging and going into her box 
When her waters went her first pup came seconds later .


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Checking in to see how your night is going?

Hope all is well!
:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi everybody,

still no news. 

Maisie did some digging and a couple of sessions of panting overnight but that is all. 

She is wagging her tail this morning and seems relaxed. 

I still don't see how the fluid loss last night could have been a wee. It was splashed you know? If they squat to urinate then you get a neat round puddle. This water was splashed and, as I said, the volume!

Temp steady at 37.3. 

In the botb it says that 1st stage can last up to 48 hours? Is she even in the 1st stage yet? 

I'm going to give my vet a call first thing and see what they think is going on!

thanks everybody x


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Morning lovely xx

My word, she has at you all at it. lol.

Bless her, let me know what the vet says, but if she is not in distress and seems quite perky, id say you havent got muhc to worry about....she could just be in slow labour ..... nature can be slow sometimes,. But you are right to keep ringing the vets, i think ill have them on loud speaker xxxx

Loads of love, it will be me next week. xxxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

I took Maisie to see my vet this morning. She said that things are progressing normally. Couldnt explain my splash last night.

Maisie's condition gave her no cause for concern, pups are still wriggling and viable (her words) and her cervix was soft from a gentle examination. 

So sent me packing to just wait it out! 

She suggested it would probably be sometime over this weekend. Fingers crossed this all happens before I am admitted to hospital for extreme anxiety and exhaustion!

Thanks everybody for your concern and kindness.
x


----------



## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Bless you, it is a worrying time, but she will produce when she is ready or when the puppies are ready to come out. It a long waiting game, and boy is she going to make you wait. It will be worth it though, at least the vet have put your mind at rest.

If she dont go into her whelping box, dont worry about it at the moment, because when she starts to really pant hard and her belly tightens (labour), and you know for defo she is really into it, (you WILL know the difference in the way she will act), then you can put her in, she will stay in there better at that stage, but if she wont go into it, dont worry just put some papers and towels on the floor out of drafts and let her have them where she feels comfortable, no point in stressing her out. But I think she will stay in the box when she is in full swing. I have a really strong feeliing about tonight/early hours in the morning.?????


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

So glad everything is Ok.

Everyone is waiting with baited breathe I think....I know I am!!

Hopefully not too long now.

Grab as many naps as you can you must feel exhausted

xx


----------



## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Agree with deb, get your head down for a bit xxx

all good signs....just stay as clam as you can (say her, who will be running around like a headless chicken , )

xxxxx Wont be on the weekend, as i have no internet at home, but will be thinking of you all, and sending postive vibes xxx


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Get some rest .....


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Thinking of you all and glad the vets could reassure you xxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi everyone

Just thought I would pop in to give an update on Maisie. 

Everything is quiet and relaxed as I enter my fourth graveyard shift on "Mama Watch". 

Hope everything else is enjoying their evening. 

Hoping to get some sleep tonight as she seems stable and temp normal. 

Let's see what tomorrow brings.

xxx


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Hope all is well! 

It would be kinda Ironic if your baby and my baby deliver on the dame day!

How many pups are you expecting again!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Iv just popped in for any updates

Still have everything crossed here for you 

This is where we say thank god dogs arent like elephants and carry for 2yrs


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

have a good night  x


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Any news?


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

I am playing the sitting up game ... any news?


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Morning!

No news this end, or Maisie's end I should say!

I will keep checking your post for updates.

Good luck and love to little mama.


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Good Morning! Checking In .... I played the sitting up game last night and thought I would check in after getting up from my nap!

Check In Later On!:thumbup1:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi Chihauhau!

See my post on your thread re news.:thumbup1:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Maisie is very unsettled tonight. Her temperature was low between 2pm and 10pm. Now it is back up to 37. It was down at 36.2 at 7pm. 

She is panting pretty consistently and has been digging as well not as consistently. 

I've been here before so . . . .

But will let you know if I can if anything further develops tonight. 

Unfortunately my whelping room isn't near my computer. So it may be difficult to update but I will try. 
:001_cool:


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

GOOD LUCK!

Looks like we will be up together tonight!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

will keep an eye out so tense for you but wow when she gives birth you will be on cloud nine :thumbup1:


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

good luck, I will keep checking for updates when you can


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm not getting excited Mitch. I'm a cool cucumber these days ! 

Err, maybe not. 

I think a very large glass of wine might be in order. 

Fifth night spent on settee on "Mama Watch". It's so uncomfortable that if Maisie decides that is the place I will say, yeah go for it, do it. I can throw it out!!!!!!!! Yay!


Have just reread this post. Obviously going mad:mad2:


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

miti999 said:


> I'm not getting excited Mitch. I'm a cool cucumber these days !
> 
> Err, maybe not.
> 
> ...


 It gets you like that 

Wine sounds good :thumbup1:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

That went down well, might have another one . . . .


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

I should change the name of this thread to :

journey of unknown litter

journey of person who didn't know what whelping meant two weeks ago:confused5:

or 

Going insane, please read!:mad2:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

think I might have another one!:aureola:


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

miti999 said:


> think I might have another one!:aureola:


Your going mad with sleep deprivation  Hold on to that wine glass


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

checking in  x


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## Akai-Chan (Feb 21, 2009)

Me too... Hows it going?

Are you determined to stay up for at least one birth P+C? 

Peace
Akai-Chan


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

YES! It always happens when im in bed!!!! lol x


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

checking in on you!

Hope all is well.

Maybe they both will whelp tonight!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Night girls hope the night goes well for you :thumbup1:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Quick update.

Maisie is still panting.


I am hoping this ordeal will be over for her in the next 24 hours.

As I said earlier,my computer isn't near my whelping room and I don't have a laptop.

Will update tomorrow morning

Oops! It is tomorrow.


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Hope all is well!

Checking In!


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Checking In

Hope your doing fine!:thumbup1:


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

Oh my goodness, only just caught up with this! Maisie, hon, let's see your babies... be a good girl now for your mum.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Maisie is still panting and has trashed the whelp box. 

Botb says stage one can last on average 6 - 12 hours. Maisie I think has been in labour since 10pm. 

Definitely only panting and shredding so far. No contractions. 

Will keep posting. 

What a long night so far!

Any news chihuahua?


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Missy Piggy is breathing hard and can not get comfortable. She is nesting on her favorite blanket a lot. She will nest then lay down. He temp is still down. I am hoping soon!

Keep us updated!


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## Geordiegirl (Mar 14, 2009)

C'mon little girl its time for us all to see your babies

Jeanette


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Any news???


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Maisie is still panting and frantic newspaper shredding and tearing.

She has slept briefly a couple of times. 

Do you think I should call the vet or does all this sound normal?


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Maisie is still panting and frantic newspaper shredding and tearing.
> 
> She has slept briefly a couple of times.
> 
> Do you think I should call the vet or does all this sound normal?


Hi x only just seen this thread x all this sounds very normal


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Maisie must be exhausted. She's been up all night doing this. How will she have the energy left to push?


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## bucksmum (Jul 19, 2009)

She will  you may not see obvious contractions before a pup comes.

Some of my bitches just 'shiver' very subtly so can take you by surprise


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Checking In .... It is 4:58am here and Miss Piggy has been panting a lot and nesting. She is calm but she has that "blank" look on her face. Hope this will be soon. She is very restless.

Hope all is well! :001_huh:


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Any more news?


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

No Maisie hasn't progressed. She's still panting and resting, panting and resting 

I have called the vet for their advice and waiting on call back.


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## kerrybramble (Jun 2, 2009)

have her waters broke yet? and my vets told us to take bramble for a drive to get her cintractions going x


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Thinking of you...definatly not long now.

Any pushing or shivers yet?


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

good luck  I look forward to hearing some updates


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi there, What is she doing today, any good news yet??????? yes it sounds normal, she is just resting in between. They can be in first stage labour and you may not know it until it have really progressed. Hope to hear some good news today or tonight. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Hope all is well on your end! Mine is moving along should be pups pretty soon!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

She's still in 1st stage. No pushes yet. She is doing okay. Vet not concerned when we spoke.

will update when I can


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Ooooh I'm all excited!

Think I'll be on here tonight instead of x factor/I'm a celeb get me out of here!

Fingers crossed it all happens smoothly


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Miss Piggy is also in the first stages of birthing! Hopefully soon .... How ironic that they will mostly likely deliver on the same day ....:thumbup1:


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Any news? Miss Piggy had her first one!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Maisie won't stay in her box but insists on staying on my settee (which has been my bed for five nights!). She digs there as well even though there isn't any newspaper or bedding on it. She has completely trashed her whelping box. 

I had no idea this stage would take so long. It is so horrible to see her like this. She looks so tired. How is she going to have the strength to do anything else? 

Feel terrible. Poor thing. Wish I could help her, but what can I do?


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Maisie won't stay in her box but insists on staying on my settee (which has been my bed for five nights!). She digs there as well even though there isn't any newspaper or bedding on it. She has completely trashed her whelping box.
> 
> I had no idea this stage would take so long. It is so horrible to see her like this. She looks so tired. How is she going to have the strength to do anything else?
> 
> Feel terrible. Poor thing. Wish I could help her, but what can I do?


There's nothing Hun, just reassurance, soothing words, little drinks and just letting her get on with it.

She will be going into the next stage soon and then things will really get going.

x


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

You should start a new thread when things start to progress, then it will be easier to keep track and spy on her


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Come on Maisie. Miss Piggy has had 4 already. We need to seee your babies too:thumbup1:


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Gosh Miasie girl is doing so well and so are you :thumbup1:


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Checking in and see how your doing? Hope all is well ....Give us and update soon!:thumbup1:


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi hun, how is Maisie doing now, any more news at all...............?


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Looks like she's offline at the moment. Hopefully when she comes back on she will have some news for us.


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## Lucy Fleming (Nov 8, 2009)

Hi Miti999 - How are YOU? Take it easy and you will do grand. Maisie knows what she is doing and its harder for you because your her mum and watching your girl going through the birthing experience. As I wrong or is this Maisie's second litter???

Anyway, we're waiting with with bated breath. 

PS Great news from Miss Piggy!! Love, Lucy


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Checking in on you!

How's things going?

Miss Piggy had 5 boys!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

:thumbup1:Maisie has had first pup!!

Little girl 15oz!

Born at 7.25.

keep you all posted when I can xx


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

*Miss Piggy and Mr Spot's Puppies​*
Pup one born at 10:25 - 2oz

Pup two born at 11:00 - 2.3oz

Pup three born at 11:25 - 3.0oz

Pup four born at 11:50 - 2.6oz

Pup five born at 1:00pm - 2.2oz

*Congratulations on your first pup .... keep us updated ... send some pics!:thumbup1:*


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Oh my goodness well done Im glued now


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

I'm glued too, 2 sets of pups in one day...Congrats to both of you and the moms....Jill


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Congrats on your first pup...

Hows Maisie doing?


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Checking In


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

just checking....Jill


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Chihuahua_Lover said:


> Checking In


Still nothing


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

checking in 

EDIT: just read! Congrats on the pup! Hope the others are going well!  Please update us when u can! xx


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

I wonder how many now xx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi everyone and thanks very much for your concerns. Sorry I haven't been able to post until now. 

After Maisie delivered one pup at 7.25 she didn't progress any further. She was a good mum and looked after her pup but three hours later we were very concerned that no more had been delivered. I rang the vet and met her 20 minutes later. 

We agreed as it was now 4 hours since she had had any contractions to do a c-section on her again. 

That went well and Maisie had another six puppies. I think we've got four girls and three boys now. 

The vet told us that she had a lot of scar tissue from the previous c-section and some of that scarred tissue had adhered to her bowel and bladder. 

She was never going to be able to whelp the rest of her babies herself. So we took the right decision in the c-section and not the oxytocin jab which was the other choice. 

And to answer your other question . . . it was a labrador that caught her.

I will post pictures tomorrow of the pups. Maisie is too tired now.

What a trauma tonight. But at least my Maisie is okay and that was all that mattered. Bless her.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Wow I just noticed this thread (I have been internet deprived!)

Congratulations 

I can't wait for pics 

xx


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Glad you made that decision and that mom and pups are okay....Jill


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

Congratulations. 


Glad you made the right decision and Maisie and her little family are all ok


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## TORY (Nov 27, 2007)

Glad mom and pups OK....


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## Lucy Fleming (Nov 8, 2009)

Well done Maisie!! 

I thought this was her second pregnancy, but didn't remember the first was a cs. Welcome to the club,Maisie - I had two human babies that way! 

Miti999 - you mentioned the first puppy to be 15oz - isnt that quite a whopper considering she had another 5 to come? Hope you not too disappointed in dad being a lab - the puppies will be just that bit more interesting in their appearance. 

When you get things sorted hope you manage to give us some pics.

Congratulations to you and your family. I think the real work will start to begin now, lol!! Lucy x


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Congrats, poor love xxx give her a big kiss for me.....good going, well done the both of you xxxx


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

hope mum and babies are ok this morning

xx


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## Xiaoli (Aug 10, 2008)

Aww what fabby news - have just read the whole thread and couldn't wait to see if they had been born and they have - Woo Hoo.

Congratulations


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Hi everyone and thanks very much for your concerns. Sorry I haven't been able to post until now.
> 
> After Maisie delivered one pup at 7.25 she didn't progress any further. She was a good mum and looked after her pup but three hours later we were very concerned that no more had been delivered. I rang the vet and met her 20 minutes later.
> 
> ...


Aw bless her, congratulations on the first puppy, and wow then 6 more after. that is a shame she had to have a c sections, but it was in her best interest obviously. Well done you for acting quickly, I cant wait to see them all together now, sit back and relax now and enjoy watching them grow. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks everybody. 

Yes Lucy. It is on a previous thread if I didn't mention it on this one. Maisie was caught before by her previous owner's lab at a young age. I think she was only 12-18 months maybe her first season. She had a c section due to secondary inertia. They hadn't bred from her since and when I asked they didn't mind if I wanted her to have a litter before she was spayed. They didn't see any reason why she shouldn't. But, as we now know, it was all too late. 

Maisie is drinking lots and eating little and often. I haven't been able to get her outside to do her business which by now she must need to! Pups are doing okay. 

Here are the stats!

Girl 15oz born 7.25pm 15/11
Boy 16oz
Boy 150z
Girl 15oz
Boy 10oz
Girl 16oz
Boy 16oz. 

Except for girl number one, I didn't weigh them all until this morning so they would have gained some since birth as they haven't stopped feeding! Poor Mum. 

And here are the pix!


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Oh they all look gorgeous!! And all jet black too!

Hope Mum is OK


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## ad_1980 (Jan 28, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Thanks everybody.
> 
> Yes Lucy. It is on a previous thread if I didn't mention it on this one. Maisie was caught before by her previous owner's lab at a young age. I think she was only 12-18 months maybe her first season. She had a c section due to secondary inertia. They hadn't bred from her since and when I asked they didn't mind if I wanted her to have a litter before she was spayed. They didn't see any reason why she shouldn't. But, as we now know, it was all too late.
> 
> ...


I just sat here for the past 30 mins reading your thread from page one! Well done hon.

You are quite a nice person for keeping Maisie on, esp as she was accidental mating. there are some people who would just abandon the dog that was pregnant - trust me i've seen some ads like you woudln't believe! - ask justenuf here - she rescued a pregnant king charles cav and took her on. There is a thread somewhere here. So well done. 

Second of all well done on the puppies  They look stunning, esp for xbreeds lol
 More pics soon ok?


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## plumo72 (Nov 2, 2007)

Congratulations, they are lovely  x


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## Xiaoli (Aug 10, 2008)

GAWJUS puppies!!

I see mum has a snazzy pink bandage too - bless her, brave girlie she was


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Well done!  it always happens when im in bed lol x


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

:001_wub:
They are lovely.

I was wondering how you knew as soon as they were born that the dad was a lab but I can see quite clearly now 

I am going to enjoy watching them grow up, can't wait for more updates 

xx


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Oh goodness me, what a night youv all had, goodness me. Congratulations what a wonderful girl you have there and well done Mitti well done :thumbup1:

The photos are adoreable and mum looks so proud, thank god you were on your toes. Now you Just HAVE to keep one 

Well earned rest for you all is now on the menu 


CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN 

:thumbup::biggrin::crazy::001_tt1::001_wub:


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## GeordieBabe (Apr 7, 2009)

whew long weekend, lovely pups and congrats to both mums and pups


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## PennyH (Dec 30, 2008)

Congratulations!! 
I love airedales, and an airedale x lab will be a brilliant dog! (if a little stubborn)
Good luck and hope they continue to be fit and healthy.
Absolutely fantastic pix too.
Well done all!


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## lilacbabe (Jun 4, 2009)

The pups look well and it will be interesting to see what they will look like as they grow so keep us up to date with lots of pics.

They will be lovley dogs Airedales are full of fun and are really clever dogs . I am dying to know what their coat will turn out like , will they be more lab or Airedale , will they get the Airedale saddle markings ?? its quite exciting I cant wait to see

Mum is lovley and looks very proud she has done so well:thumbup1:


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

they are gorgeous!! and wow chunky pups well done mummy!! 

xx


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## Mama Sass (Sep 8, 2009)

Have been watching this thread over the weekend and just wanted to add my congratulations! I could not go through the trauma, I think I would have a nervous breakdown!!

The pups look soooooo gorgeous - well done Maisie and well done you!


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Well we both did it on the same day!!!!!

You got lucky with some girls and I got all boys!

I am glad mom and pups are okay ......

They are all so cute!

Keep us updated!:thumbup1:


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## terriermaid (Nov 5, 2007)

congrates on the pups


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi everyone.

Thank you everyone for your lovely comments. 

Airedale puppies are born with some tan on their feet and faces though they are mainly black. Maisie's pups are entirely black so they are definitely lab crosses! It's hard to say but I think their faces are terrier-like rather than lab but there's a lot of growing to do. I think they could grow up to look like black airedales but we will wait and see. 

Mum and pups are doing well. 

I will try and write an advert for these pups this week. That will be a challenge! As I don't want to give the impression I have deliberately crossed my airedale with a lab! Got some thinking to do . . .

Dad's been hip scored and eye tested (I was told by Maisie's previous owner that she eye tests her Lab every year?) and she will send 

More pix!


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## ann1981 (Nov 12, 2009)

Congratulations!:thumbup1:


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

I love the photo you took of her with her little monsters lololool they are stunning and so shinny.........she looks so proud dont she. You wil have fun now watching them grow and have their own little characters. good luck loloolololo............xxxxxxxx:thumbup1:


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

So Glad alls going well, photos are lovely, is mum eating well, Molly ate huge amounts once feeding her pups, its amazeing the energy it takes to feed thier pups bet they are going to be stunning dogs when they are all grown up


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Masie is eating an awful lot and drinking plenty too. I usually give her drinks in the whelping box as she is reluctant to leave it for that. But she will come out for her food and have that on the floor next to the box. 

She is slowly being encouraged to walk out into the garden but haven't managed to get her any further away from her pups than that. I assume this will come in the next few days when she will be more relaxed about leaving her pups for 15 mins or so. It's such early days. 

Her wound looks okay but I do worry that it must be getting sore for her as these pups are never off her teats with their feet paddling! 

If Maisie lays down completely and more of her tummy is exposed, it's like a signal that goes up that says "Quick, Mum just released more nipples!" and they all scramble again and jostle for position. 

All pups have gained 1-2 oz each. Fatties!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Bet shes so intent on feeding and careing for her pups her own discomfort is minimal, they are such strong animals when it comes to thier young, sounds like shes doing a grand job. Molly wouldnt even eat out of the box for the first 3 days and would scoot out to have a pee and poo and then rush back to he rpups and go round all of them as much to say I hope I havent lost one, she was quite intent on the pups for ages, wouldnt leave them at all for very long until around week 5 and then wanted to spend every night with them till they went home. 

We started to reduce her time with them but she got so stressed the vet and our mentors said it was better to let her spend all the time she wanted with them rather than stress her out in this way. They would all be asleep and Molly would go and wake them all up or cry outside the room well more like howl, and theyd all wake up  My friends dalmation had to be encouraged to go and feed her pups after week 1, and didnt even want to be with them at night  

Keep up the good work and the updates, its been a lovely journey to have shared with you, thankyou x


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Masie is eating an awful lot and drinking plenty too. I usually give her drinks in the whelping box as she is reluctant to leave it for that. But she will come out for her food and have that on the floor next to the box.
> 
> She is slowly being encouraged to walk out into the garden but haven't managed to get her any further away from her pups than that. I assume this will come in the next few days when she will be more relaxed about leaving her pups for 15 mins or so. It's such early days.
> 
> ...


If the puppies are paddling on her wound, try and take the tips of their nails off, only the sharp teeny bits off the end mind, as they will be very sharp against her tummy.
She will leave the pups to go out for a wee soon enough, I put papers down for Teigan and she did leave them for 3 days, and I had to bring the food to her for 2 days. She sounds lilke she is being a good mother. xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks Mitch4 and WelshCrazy. 

Do you mean with a pair of small scissors? Sorry to sound so ignorant. 

I will check the pups claws and see if they are quite sharp first of course.


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

i used a very small pair of nail clippers, but just the very tips, they grow quite fast


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Thank you everyone for your lovely comments.
> 
> ...


The pups are so cute and Mom appears to be well!

Congratulations!!!:001_cool:


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## lailabear (Nov 10, 2009)

just read all the thread, pups and mum are gorgeous!!!!!!! how lovely. well done all xx


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## Lucy Fleming (Nov 8, 2009)

Hi Miti999 - I have been away from the computer for a little while so thoroughly enjoyed reading all the latest posts. I just love your Maisie and her expression ("Golly, is this what everyone's been waiting for?"!!! and "Aren't I the clever one here!"). 

Glad the secion went ok and she is looking so well, obviously a besotted new mum. Glad to here you survived the last few nights and, as someone mentioned, good for you to act so quickly. 

Keep up the pics if you have time and we can see the babies grow into beautiful bundles of fun. For what it's worth, I think black airdales are going to win the day!!! Lucy x


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## Chihuahua_Lover (Nov 8, 2009)

Checking In! The pups on my end are doing great!:thumbup1:


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi everyone!

Things are okay this end too thanks Chihuahua! 

Pups are all gaining weight. The biggest pup now weighs in at 20oz! What a fattie!

Maisie seems very well and is eating and drinking plenty. And she came out for a very short walk today. 

Here are some pix from today's photo call.


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## lailabear (Nov 10, 2009)

Chihuahua_Lover said:


> Checking In! The pups on my end are doing great!:thumbup1:


Have we had any pics of your pups yet ??? sorry if you have but i must have missed them!!

The little lab/airedale crosses are gorgeous!!


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## lailabear (Nov 10, 2009)

aww lovely new pics, i was posting at same time  their coats seem to have a slight curl to it you can just see, so may be like mums!!

ok in one of the pics they look curly but now i cant see it!!! hmm maybe that was just me being blonde!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

:frown2:Took Maisie out for a 10-15 minute leg stretch today and we met a lady with two bearded collies. One was an old girl of nine called Maisie! and the other was a 15 week old pup. 

I was chatting to her and admittedly off my guard when (I didn't see) there was a commotion and I turned round to see Maisie attacking the 15 week pup. 

She had her pinned to the ground and had her jaws around the pup's neck and was shaking it like some sort of toy.

I was so shocked. I got Maisie off this pup and apologised profusely to the owner. I explained that she had seven puppies at the moment but I'd not seen that behaviour in her before, albeit I'd only had Maisie since late sept?early Oct.

We share the same vet and the pup was taken to be checked there straight away. 

The vet contacted me to assure me that all was well. 

Luckily Maisie hadn't appeared to have done any damage, not even a puncture wound, but it looked horrific at the time. As if she wanted to kill it.

I thought afterwards that maybe the dog had, in all innocence, sniffed round her behind and that had caused Maisie to attack it? 

Am I being naive in assuming that Maisie reacted like this to a dog because she has pups or could it be that I need to keep a closer eye on her from now on with dog association? 

Your thoughts and views on lactating dogs and how they react to other dogs would be appreciated! 

Needless to say, I will keep Maisie on a much tighter lead for the time being.:frown2:


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Maybe the pup accidently caught her somewhere thats abit sore?

I know my pup gets abit annoyed if she has an ear infection and another dog catches her ear when its sore x


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Maybe its a bit soon for her to be away from her babies and she thought that this pup was going to try and get some milk, Im not sure at all on that though


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

I thought afterwards that the puppy had gone behind Maisie and she objected to this.

I can understand that, and maybe she is sore as well from her wound.

But, even though the vet has assured me that no harm was done to the puppy as far as she could tell, it still looked like Maisie really meant business. 

She had this dog around the neck and was shaking it, just like it was a toy. 

Thanks for your thoughts so far.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

My girls don't go anywere near my other dogs until their pups are older Tegan I know would not be very happy to have other dogs sniffing round her.

The pup may have knocked Maisie and hurt her stitches. I would keep her away from other dogs until she is completely healed up.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Id be very careful taking her outside of your property. You dont know what she can pick up and transfer to her puppies. Could be potentially life threatening.

Most breeders keep their dogs in until the pups are weaned and homed.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks everyone. 

I thought the botb suggest a 15 minute walk is ideal for them at this stage. I did keep her on a lead. Not that it helped much under the circumstances as the attack still happened. 

Maisie was happy to come out on a lead. I didn't coerce her at all. I know she won't want to leave her pups for long and we could easily turn around and be indoors again within minutes. The recreation ground is immediately adjacent to my house. 

Maybe I read it somewhere else and not in the botb. 

I'm glad I asked the question. 

I will just confine her to the garden in future until things settle down a bit. 

Phew!


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## deb53 (Jun 4, 2009)

Agree with Nonnie here.

Its a too big a risk taking her out at this early stage with such young pups at home. She could transfer anything from her pads to the pups when going back to them.

Regarding the pup, Yes maybe the pup did sniff around her back end, smell milkand try and sniff her teats or knock her scar. But don't forget Maisies hormones are going to be all over the place at the moment as such a short length of time since having her pups and especially going through the ordeal of a caeser so she is likely to be a bit tempermental to strange dogs.

Hope the pup is ok. Just access when she wants to your own secure garden should be ample while she has such young babies in the nest.

The pups are gorgeous by the way


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

It was the botb that I read it. 

But I forgot to keep in my head the rest of the sentence

". . . .without encountering other dogs, 15 minutes is ideal".

So stupid. To think that puppy could have been severely injured and it would have been down to my ignorance. 

Well so much the wiser now. 

Thanks guys. 

Double phew!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Mitti Id forget the walk at this point, just keep her to the garden, Molly didnt go anywhere other than the garden before her pups went to their new homes, so you wont be limiting her in any way, she was also probably a bit stressed at being away from pups. Molly used to really warn our other dogs off, even if they approached the baby gate, looked like a different dog, beared her teeth the lot horrid, but her way of preserveing and protecting her new family, by week 4 she was more tollorent but shed let the dogs in but would cirlcle them away if the got to close, it was week 6 before shed let the pups play with the other adult dogs, they go very protective of their pups and also themselves, as she knows she has to stay healthy and safe as she has her pups to care for. She will be fine dont worry, once her hormones have settled she will be all loving again :thumbup1: 

You could however as she is a rescue just to be safe, ask the rescue centre for a bit more history on her if they have them and watch her interactions with her pups as they get more mobile and boistrous


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

hey, miti! :--) 

glad the pup was all right - yes, i agree that would be frightening!  

any bitch with newborns is twitchy... 
but a 15-WO pup, even a F pup, should still be under the usual puppy-license, and should need to do something pretty bad to rank a real set-down + potential injury from a varmint-type assault :frown2: (bite + shake is an intent to maul or kill, not merely a warning; it is normally reserved only for prey, or for an adult dog or older pup past 5-MO who is a genuine threat of some sort - biting, fighting, threatening, entering the puppy room AFTER being told to go off, etc). 

so i would say this was a very serious wake-up or heads-up warning - 
Airedales are unfortunately terrierists, and the BIGGEST terrierists of them all, too. :shocked:
they do have the same unfortunate tendency to dog-aggro + reactivity found in most terrier-types, from Westies to Yorkies to JRTs to Bedlingtons. 

when her pups are at least 6-WO, i would ask the rescue-folks to do a dog to dog behavioral eval... just take her into the presence of a few NON-threatening, dog-social dogs of both (desexed) sexes, and at a distance, read her reactions in her emotional signals: 
is she up on toes? 
is her tail up, stiff, or flagging slowly + high, like a metronome? (Look out!!) 
is she leaning toward them, or attempting to loom-over them? 
does she freeze or stare? 
is her MOUTH closed, with tight cheeks or puckered whisker-pads? 
(indicates tension + suspicion) 

all of those are bad signs - 
if she displays any 3 of them, i would be concerned. 
if she shows ALL of them, even at a distance of over-20-feet, i would consider her to be in need of a good pos-R B-Mod re other dogs, to alter her emotional response! :thumbup1: 

good luck, hope it was just raging hormones + a one-off, 
or maybe the pup did jump on her in an attempt to play, and hurt her stitches... 
fingers crossed, 
--- terry


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you Leashed for this information. Maisie was at the vets today for her check up with pups. I asked if they had heard any further from this puppy's owner but they hadn't so I assume all is well which is a great relief.

Amazing though. This attack looked so serious so how is it possible that the pup was unhurt? Didn't even appear to have any bruising either. I can't imagine what Maisie was thinking of. 

Maisie was raised with lots of other dogs. Her previous owner has about 30 altogether and they all run around and socialised. I know I have only had Maisie for a month or so now but whenever we encountered other dogs she was always friendly and seemed happy to say hello. As I have said before she is a very sweet natured and gentle so it was a shock when she attacked this pup. 

But I have taken great heed to everything that's been said and I will keep Maisie on a very short lead if we have to meet other dogs. This was especially put to the test this morning as there were a variety of dogs in the vets. 

Good news is that Maisie's sire has a very good hipscore of 9 and has current eye tests that are clear. 

I have a photo of him now and he is very handsome. 

All this should, hopefully, help a lot when it comes to finding forever homes for her babies.:thumbup1:


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## xxwelshcrazyxx (Jul 3, 2009)

Hi there, I just read your messages...........I wouldnt take her out of your garden, keep her to her own property, other dogs can pass on things to her and she can pass them onto her puppies, she will be fine in your garden, I think the other puppy may of sniffed her back end and underneath and she knew that this was not her puppy and was protecting her nipples for her puppies only, if you know what I mean. She was just reacting to her hormones. If she wanted to really hurt that puppy she would of really ripped its neck, This was as hard warning to this puppy, Dont Come Too Close. I am glad she is ok, it must of frightened you and the owner too. Everything turned out ok xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> Maisie was raised with lots of other dogs. Her previous owner has about 30 altogether and they all run around and socialised. I know I have only had Maisie for a month or so now but whenever we encountered other dogs she was always friendly and seemed happy to say hello. ...she is a very sweet natured and gentle Airedale so it was a shock when she attacked this pup.


hey, miti! :--)

i am not trying to paint Maisie as a monster, but living with a large number of dogs (which i presume were the same breed? just an assumption, i could be wrong!) at her breeders home, does not necessarily mean she is highly-social with dogs she has not met before... 
or with dogs of other breeds, either.

a human analogy - 
i may live with an extended family of several generations, but if those are the only people that i have met to know well in my lifetime, i would have an awful time in public, with people who look, sound, act and speak in ways that i have never experienced - i would want to RUN for home! 

breed-specific socialization - 
Greyhounds off the track have often never even *seen* a non-Greyhound, and a prick-eared dog can send them into complete panic - they have no idea what a GSD or Siberian might be; in their world, all dogs look alike... and they are frightened by this motley crew of short, hairy, tall, prick-eared, gay-tailed, feathered + plumed THINGS that gallop around and bark!

also, just as in other breed-traits, dogs differ in play-styles and social styles, too; BCs do a tremendous amount of snapping, and this can get them into trouble with breeds who take bites seriously -- bully-breeds, for instance, like to wrestle + grapple with lots of body-contact + shoving. but there is not a lot of SNAPPING - the mouth contact is sustained, but controlled pressure. 
a bully-breed dog + a BC brought together to play might really hate one another after just 5-mins, LOL, because the bully would be so frustrated by the BC refusing to engage, and threatening with teeth all the time, and the BC would think the bully was a dull stick because the bully would not chase + snap! 

so if Maisies social-life with dogs has been with other Airedales, or maybe Schnauzers or other similar breeds to her own, she may be pretty narrow minded about non-Airedale or just unfamiliar breeds / types... 
and heaven knows, a Beardie does not have much in common with an Airedale, LOL.

just a thought... i can be entirely mistaken, and every one of her breeders dogs was a different breed,  (but that does not seem very likely.)

that her sire had a good hip-score is excellent! good traction underfoot and not allowing pups to gain too much weight, too early, will help ensure those young joints are not over-loaded. :thumbup1:

i hope all her pups grow-up to be delightful, well-loved pets. 
good girl, Maisie... she is being an excellent mum, many Airedales in the USA are lousy mothers, LOL - they slip out of the box as soon as a back is turned, 

cheers, 
--- terry


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

I've just read this entire thread, phew! You've done so well with everything, Maisie is beautiful, and her pups too! I'm interested to see what they will look like as adults! Hope they all continue to do well.


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## lilacbabe (Jun 4, 2009)

miti999 said:


> :frown2:Took Maisie out for a 10-15 minute leg stretch today and we met a lady with two bearded collies. One was an old girl of nine called Maisie! and the other was a 15 week old pup.
> 
> I was chatting to her and admittedly off my guard when (I didn't see) there was a commotion and I turned round to see Maisie attacking the 15 week pup.
> 
> ...


have just read this post about Maisie and the pup.
My girl did that to our cat when she was in season and I put it down to hormones.
My girl can be a bit funny with other dogs when she is on the lead but off it she is fine with other dogs, infact even a bit of a coward at times.
The shaking does look awfull as they are big dogs but my cat was not hurt when she didi it to him just a bit frightned afterwards but but dont be worried that she is going to be like that with all dogs.
She may also have been just a bit worried at having left her pups at home and as the pup may have sniffed her behind , it might just have irritated her a bit.
she looks like a great mum and the oups are lovley.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your help with this.

Here are some more pix!

Maisie continues to be well and the pups are all getting fatter. Especially Yellow, for him, the bar is always open!!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Really lovely pictures, they are growing nicely :thumbup1:


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

beautiful pups  x


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi everybody,

Maisie is doing quite a bit of digging in the whelp box exactly as they do when they are in labour and I wondered whether this was normal for them to do this after they have had pups? 

Doesn't say anything about it in botb. She still has quite a heavy discharge and wondered if that was connected? 

Does anyone have experience of this behaviour? 
Thanks.


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

I think you should not be taking her out away from the pups yet, for one thing she may pick someone thing up on the pavement or from other dogs, and bring it home to the pups who are vunerable imnunity wise at the moment, and also because it can stress her out too much, if she was hightly stressed while on the walk, because she had been made to leave her pups unattended, this may have triggered the unusual intensity of her attack on the pup, which she may have normally just give a good telling off to for the same offense(what ever it did), the other problem is she may get too used to being away from the pups and stop feeding them, it is still too early IMO for them to stop feeding from her at the moment. edited to add the digging may be a sign of stress after leaving her pups for so long, and until her mind is completely settled this isnt going to happen again she may show some signs, like the digging, also my bitch bled for a couple of weeks after having the pups naturally, I took her to the vet who advised me if it hadnt stopped in a week he would give AB's the bleeding did actually stop a few days after this. her 2nd litter was born by C Section, she only had a little discharge afterwards, which I presumed was the after effects of being cut, this cleared up after a week or so and was not heavy, if she continues to have discharge it may be worth mentioning it to the vet and AB's may be require, this could also be adding to the digging.

Mo


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks Moboyd for your help.

Can I just reiterate that Maisie wasn't coerced or forced to go on a walk. There is a recreation ground immediately adjacent to my property so as I said we could have been back in the house within minutes. Maisie was very keen to go on a leg stretch and the botb says 10-15 minutes a day is ideal.

I wasn't paying attention to Maisie at the time we met the puppy as I was talking to the owner. It is entirely my fault that the attack happened because of my ignorance. I am just so pleased that the pup wasn't hurt though it looked serious. I've no idea what the pup had done to make Maisie so cross with it but I can only assume that it had gone round the back of her.

*Leashed*, Maisie lived with Airedales and Labradors previously and when out on her walks with me if we encountered other dogs she was friendly and happy to say hello to them.

Also, I have three other dogs all entirely different from her. So I don't _think _Maisie is fazed by other dog types.

As you have described, Maisie does want to be outside of the whelping room if the puppies are asleep! Is that Airedales or all dogs I wonder?

Maisie has just finished a course of ABs and her discharge appears a bit lighter today.

Another question answered if anybody can please!
How much for a crossbreed? I don't want to undersell them but at the same time they will all need a forever home.


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Maisie is doing great and here are some more pix of her growing family!:thumbup1:


Does anyone have any news on chihuahua? I was looking forward to her puppy pix!


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## moboyd (Sep 29, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Thanks Moboyd for your help.
> 
> Another question answered if anybody can please!
> How much for a crossbreed? I don't want to undersell them but at the same time they will all need a forever home.


well we have on a fairly reg basis crossbreed pups adopted out at work and they all go for £100 that includes being flea treated wormed vacs and microchip just to give a guidline.

Mo


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

My lovely pups are day 14 today but they still haven't opened their eyes. 
The botb says 10-14 days but that is just an average. 

In people's experience, when do pups open their eyes? 

They are all attempting to walk around the whelping box! 

Will see such a change in them in the next week. 

The biggest is now weighing in at 54oz.

Maisie continues to do well and looks really healthy. :thumbup1:


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

miti999 said:


> My lovely pups are day 14 today but they still haven't opened their eyes.
> The botb says 10-14 days but that is just an average.
> 
> In people's experience, when do pups open their eyes?
> ...


Glad they are all doing well. I'm sure their eys will open in the next couple of days.
Such cute little ones! Well done all your hard work so far


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you 




Their coats are getting long and a little bit wavy too. 

I think they are going to be beautiful Mum is very proud.


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## PennyH (Dec 30, 2008)

They look adorable! Have never seen a pup this young so can't comment on whether they look more lab or more airedale, but whatever they look like, they are really cute!
Hope Maisie continues to do well.


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## alaun (Jul 21, 2009)

i've only just seen this thread, read it all the way through - you've done an amazing job, especially as it wasn't planned and you'd no previous experience. The pups look really well, their heads look like black Airedales. Are you going to keep one yourself?


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Lovely photos

Mollys litter started to open thier eyes around day 11 to day 13/14 when all were open, so Im sure thier little peepers will open shortly


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

i cud never be a breeder  Id keep them all  x


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Will I keep one? At the moment I don't intend to, but that could definitely change! . 

If I keep one then I will have five dogs and if I get another dog that makes 6. 

So it's all getting a bit out of hand really!

We'll see. Thanks guys:thumbup1:


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

theres people on here with more then 6 dogs  lol x


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi everyone!

Maisie continues to do well and is being a good mum still.

The pups are 15 days old now. When should I be worming them as I'm not sure if it is 14 days or 21 days. Also should I worm Mum as well? Mum was wormed during pregnancy with Drontal purely as routine as we didn't know she was pregnant. 

Also is it safe to Frontline Mum or should I use another flea treatment? 

Also a couple of the pups have got tiny bumps on their groin. They don't look at all sinister but I wondered whether this was something that needs attention from the vet or is it normal? 

Sorry for all the questions but it is much easier to ask you guys rather than me searching for the answers elsewhere!


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Can anyone answer my questions? Or are you all out Christmas shopping? LOL!


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

Everyone must be out xmas shopping  lol maybe ask ur vet? They will no for certain  Sorry i cant be more help x


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Yes you can use frontline, it is safe for puppies from 2 days I read on another thread.
Worming should be done every 2 weeks from 2 weeks until 10, then every 4 weeks until 6 months, then every 3-6 months 
It won't hurt to worm mum too.

Well done on these gorgous puppies you have done such a great job 
I can't wait to see more pics as they get older.

xx


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you for your replies!

All my dogs are regularly frontlined and de wormed, so how can Maisie transmit worms to her pups?

*I will of course worm the puppies*, I've got some panacur here,

but can someone explain how tiny pups can have worms if Mum is dewormed on a regular basis?

I just would just like someone to explain how newborn pups can have worms if their mother hasn't?

Or is it about just in case?

Sorry to be such a nuisance to everyone but I am genuinely interested to understand the whole worm life cycle thing!:confused5:


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## EmilyMarie (Aug 25, 2009)

*What do the little bumps look like?

And before reading the whole thread through, I thought they were full blood black lab pups!

Also, not to be irritant, but are you going to be spaying your pooch after she's done raising this litter? So more unexpected litters don't pop up?(if you have already answered this somewhere else in this thread, please disregard my question).

CUTE puppies!!

*


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## crazycrest (Feb 13, 2008)

miti999 said:


> Thank you for your replies!
> 
> All my dogs are regularly frontlined and de wormed, so how can Maisie transmit worms to her pups?
> 
> ...


 Some larvae become encysted (enclosed within a sac, or capsule) within the tissues of her uterus or mammary glands, becoming dormant for an extended period, even years. During and following pregnancy and whelping, the encysted worms are stimulated by hormones and resume development. This stage of a worm will pass though either the placenta or milk into the infant puppies, thus infecting them. The puppies are either born with, or develop, "a case of worms" soon after birth. When these worms mature in the puppies, they live in the intestine. There, the roundworms live off the food the puppy eats. As the number of worms increases, the loss of nutrition can be significant.

Hope this helps :thumbup1:


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

hey, miti! :--)

i would NOT be willy-nilly worming, not pups nor mum - 
get a fecal float on mum, + ask the vet to tell U what (if any) wormer is correct. 
OTC worming without a Dx of WHich-Worm, greatly increases the risk of Resistance to the poison 
developing in the parasite, which greatly complicates the treatment of parasitized animals. 
it also increases the Risk to each PUPPY - as these are poisons, not pudding. 
a mass of dead worms in a pup can cause an intusseseption - an Accordioning of the bowel, which can be fatal. 
the younger the pup, the bigger the potential risk. 
there are other possible side-effects, as well.

the BIGGIES for pups are roundworms - they can be transmitted intra-utero. 
if mum has no worms in her gut, the pups _*should Not need any wormer at all, unless they have 
INGESTED worm-eggs from another source - like grass in a local park, laced with shed eggs, etc. *_

they are gaining wt, they are growing and thriving? 
IMO do not fret over worming - checking at 6-Mos by the buyer is fine, they are doing well. 
if mum HAS worms - treat HER, and fecal-float each pup. 
that way there is no guessing, no needles exposure to the WRONG poison for what they (may) have, 
and if they are clean... no worming poisons at all! :thumbup1: cool... 

cheers, 
--- terry


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

re panacur -



> http://www.ehow.com/about_5324808_panacur-wormer-do-dogs.html
> 
> Panacur, by Intervet, is a broad-spectrum anthelmintic (deworming medication) that contains fenbendazole as the active ingredient. It is used to treat both immature and mature roundworms as well as hookworms, whipworms, tapeworms, intestinal flukes and the protozoa Giardia in dogs. Fenbendazole is a benzimidizole-class dewormer. (Snip)
> 
> Before you use Panacur, or any deworming medication, bring a stool sample from your dog to your vet. Ideally, the sample should be collected and brought to the vet the same day your dog has left it. A teaspoon-sized sample is sufficient for testing. Turn a small plastic baggie inside out and place it over your hand and collect the sample, turning it inside out once again, being careful not to pick up any dirt or grass with it. After your veterinarian has determined the type and level of worm infection, you may then administer Panacur according to your veterinarian's instructions.


cheers, 
--- terry


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

re post 392 - their little faces, LOL

hey, miti! :--)

would U satisfy a bet i have running, please? 
i say the pups are (reading from <left to ----> right...) 
F, M, M, F, M.

if i am right, i get a choc-bar! :thumbup1: whoo-hoo... 
my friend says there are 3 Fs, and #2 is the other F.

anticipating my chocolate, ummm... 
--- terry


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

re post 399



> ...a couple of the pups have got tiny bumps on their groin.
> They don't look at all sinister but I wondered whether this was something that needs attention from the vet or is it normal?


hey, miti! :--)

do they resemble individual acne - 
a tiny pink ring, and a yellow center that is the head, which varies in size?

if so, this is puppy-pyometra, and no big deal - home-care 1st-Aid!

take a Q-tip, have a tiny amount of H2O2 (1st-Aid hydrogen-peroxide) in a GLASS clean cup, dip the end of a Q-tip Once in the peroxide, dab ONE bump, flip the Q-tip to the dry side, repeat, discard used Q-tip, grab a clean q-tip... 
it takes a few seconds per pup, even if they have a dozen little bumps. 
wipe each bump on the entire head, and a small disk of skin around the pink ring - 
EACH with a clean Q-tip of its very own.

every one of them can be treated 2x daily - 
morning after brekkie for the pups, and PM after Ur dinner, so they are clean before bedtime. 
in 3 to 4 days, the scab should be about ready to fall off. 
they are icky looking, but only worrisome if a SECONDARY bacterial infection develops. 
then it is Vet-Time! 

cheers, 
--- terry


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

I wouldnt use frontline on mum or pups at this stage even if its says you can

Panacur paste for the pups from 2 or 3 weeks of age and panacur sachets for mum if shes still feeding them you dont want to be putting pesticides on her it may transfer to the milk, you just dont know


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks for all your help and replies. I will ring my vet re worming and sort the whole business out once and for all. I do have some reluctance in worming pups that may not need it, but I expect my vet will say _just worm them_!

Emilymarie, without reading my thread through to find out if I've already said, the answer is that after the vet performed the c-section she told us that, in her opinion, spaying Maisie would be a complicated procedure due to adhesions and scarring from her first c-section. I will revisit the whole spaying issue with my vet when pups have gone and Maisie is in full health and fighting fit. Maisie WILL NOT be having any more pups! I'm too exhausted.:frown2:

Terry, I couldn't possibly say which is which from my photos and I don't remember. I can post some more pix and maybe you could start your bet all over again?!!

Leashed, thanks for your help. I will post pic of spots on tummy. It is only one or two that have them. (I hope they're not nipples I will look so dumb)


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Here are some more pix and one of spotty tummy if it helps to diagnose Leashed. I can't see yellow centres, they appear to be uniformly the same colour like little blind spots?


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

miti999 said:


> Here are some more pix and one of spotty tummy if it helps to diagnose Leashed. I can't see yellow centres, they appear to be uniformly the same colour like little blind spots?


Are they either side?

They look like nipples, unless im looking at something else.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Look like nipples to me too.

My dog (as in male) had nipples still when he came home at 7 1/2 weeks 

Cute puppies, I'm pleased their eyes have opened, beautiful puppies!


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Lovely puppies yummy yum and yes they look like the nipples 

Dont worry when Mollys litter were born I thought I had 7 boys one with a funny umbilical cord  the fact was I had 6 girls and one boy, the funny umbilical cord was the little boys pee pee and the 7 pee pees I thought I had were the girlies oopsie doos (vulval area)   I know all the experienced breeders out there dippy here had asked millions of questions but that bit of anatomy learning had totally been omitted, quite funny at the vet check the morning after the birth, they just looked at me in astoundment and couldnt stop laughing


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## tiddlypup (Oct 4, 2008)

mitch4 said:


> Lovely puppies yummy yum and yes they look like the nipples
> 
> Dont worry when Mollys litter were born I thought I had 7 boys one with a funny umbilical cord  the fact was I had 6 girls and one boy, the funny umbilical cord was the little boys pee pee and the 7 pee pees I thought I had were the girlies oopsie doos (vulval area)   I know all the experienced breeders out there dippy here had asked millions of questions but that bit of anatomy learning had totally been omitted, quite funny at the vet check the morning after the birth, they just looked at me in astoundment and couldnt stop laughing


lol,a friend of mines mum asked me to come and look at their 7 mth pup prince as he was bleeding and they couldnt find where from,i got there burst out laughing and told them little prince was a princess in season


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

tiddlypup said:


> lol,a friend of mines mum asked me to come and look at their 7 mth pup prince as he was bleeding and they couldnt find where from,i got there burst out laughing and told them little prince was a princess in season


This made me laugh


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## Paws&Claws (Aug 29, 2009)

haha aw there growing so fast  x


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Hi everybody!

Yes, it's this time of night before I have finished my chores in the *Puppy Lounge*!

I sense the time might have come to begin weaning the pups. They will be 4 weeks old on Sunday. So, three and a half weeks tomorrow?

My question is how do you begin? Do you introduce a different meal at the second milk feed? That would make sense to me. Or maybe at teatime?

I have got whelpi and I've got Farleys rusks as a first taster (done my research on here!).

*Or* am I too early to start weaning? I am confused about this.  There seems to be a variation on opinions?!!

Any help would be appreciated. 

Another recent photo call


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

hey, miti! :--)

i am so sorry, hon - i am LATE replying, i did not realize there was a pix-post! 
i apologize... :---( that said, the lil tummy is a bit hard to see well, BUT the 2 
blind same-skin-color bumps on the NEAR side, midway betw navel-line and the lateral 
(side of body) ARE definitely nipples - one above the penis by an inch-and-a-bit out to the side, 
one just below the sheathed penis.

there is ONE tiny spot that may be pup-pyometra, a little teeny thing that looks like a blackhead... 
those ones, a 32nd-inch or so, are so small, they are self-curing. the pups maturing + developing 
immune system takes care of them, in 10-days or so. very simple... 
just keeping pups + their area CLEAN (not sterile, just ordinary clean...) will prevent many problems!  :thumbup1:

sorry i was so long getting here, i feel badly - :sad: 
the pups look WONDERFUL, congratulations! Good on ya! ***** 4 paws up... *

pleasant dreams, sleep well, babies... 
--- terry


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

hey, miti! :---) 

personally, i have let the pups explore mums kibble first - When THEY show interest in HER food, 
that is when i start moistening some pup-formula kibble. 

and mum-dog should be on puppy-formula, BTW - extra calories in smaller volumes, to push her lactation, 
and keep her body-condition up while she is feeding the kids... 
adult-formula dog-food requires too much volume for her to efficiently take in, 
and get the extra calories out for feeding the litter, herself, + doing body-maintenance. 

generally, pups have been 4.5 to 5-weeks old, on average IME, before they really start creeping to mums dish - 
until then, i just stick to one or 2 formula-meals to help teach lapping. 
i do not use full-formula to dampen the kibble!  it can give DIARRHEA, too rich! 
i cut formula with 1 part H2O - so 50% formula, 50% water, poured onto pup-kibble to stand. 
i also REFRIGERATE the standing-kibble, to prevent gram-neg bacteria growing 
(room-temp is too bacteria-friendly). then i warm it VERY gently before offering. 
small amounts at first - pitch anything left after 45-mins or so. 

JMO + IME - Ur mileage may vary! (grin) 
good-night, ... 
--- terry


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks Leashed. Tiny tummies haven't changed at all. So I assume they are nipples! Certainly they didn't progress to anything that looked angry or infected.

Mum is on puppy formula (Wainwright and Natures) and I also give her minced beef, chicken, tuna, scrambled egg (though not all at once!) as well. She is very pampered. Her milk supply seems to be plentiful and the pups are thriving. 

Most of them have teeth now. One of her girls is very interested in Mum's food already. Most will use their siblings as a launchpad and catapult themselves out of the whelping box to have a wobble around the room. I often come down in the mornings to find a few of them walking around which does concern me as they can get out but haven't worked out how to get back in. If Mum gets into whelp box for a feed, those on the outside are about to miss out. :frown2:

So, in summary, another week before I need to introduce anything? Don't know why I think teeth are an indication of when to wean also?


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

> ...another week before I need to introduce anything?


just let the pups tell U... if more than 1 or 2 are feet-first in mums dish, LOL, U can put a flying-saucer pan in for the pups when mum gets her meals, so they can sniff + paddle in it...   
be ready to bathe the little buggers after, they wear more than they eat! :lol:



> Don't know why I think teeth are an indication of when to wean also?


not really - bitches make their own decisions on that - they start limiting regular MEALS long-before 
they stop the occasional snack or mum-i-got-snarked-at mercy meal.

contact-comfort: 
pups will fly to Mum for a quick suckle as contact-comfort, if anything startles or hurts them... like a fall, 
step on a sharp object, loud noise... clear up into the 10th week or later, if the dam + some pups are still together.

most bitches will not allow full-on, entire litter dairy-bar feeds after about 8 to 9-WO. 
up until 7 or 8-WO, some pups opt for fewer nursed-meals + more moist-solids. 
_*MOM * STOPS * EATING * STOOLS as soon as the PUPS are on frequent solids!!! 
so do not be in a big hurry, unless U really *want* to do more cleaning... 
or have sh*tty pups, LOL, one or the other. 
the odor of their stools changes when they go from breastmilk to moist-meals, so do not hustle it, 
there will be plenty of time to clean-up poop before they are ready to leave... 

also, for pups who are a bit slower developing (pups can be 2 to 4 days apart in literal age 
from conception), if too many pups STOP nursing, Mums milk dries-up... 
Bummer! 
i let the dam decide when to show the pups some teeth, and tell them the dairy-bar is shutting down; 
it saves me from interfering, and the pups who need a bit longer to nurse + grow, get extra time. 
most dams will tolerate a genuinely NEEDY pup longer than the rest of the well-grown litter 
as a whole. then she also dries-up more gradually, too, with less distension, and her teats 
will not be so pendulous and painful.

*mastitis* is something to watch for - 
wash her belly + nipples every other day or so, with a very mild bath-soap 
or plain warm-water with a packet of instant-oats thrown into the bucket; 
then rinse well. 
look for pink, shiny, swollen, HOT or HARD nipples/breasts; call the vet + take her right in, 
if one or more nipples are a hardened, hot mass. very painful!  
and can cause colic in pups, too. 

hopefully all will go well, with zero complications, and the babies will be bouncy 
happy healthy 56-day-old kids before U know it! :thumbup:

cheers, tell that good mom-dog she is wonderful for me... 
--- terry

*_


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## miti999 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks very much for all that info Leashed. 

Mum is only feeding them about three times in 24 hours at the most now. They are having the arden grange and farleys with whelpi in between. They all lap from the dish and seem to have taken to weaning off mum with ease

See new thread "Help - chapter 2" for follow ups!


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