# Breeding after a c-section



## bellababy (Mar 20, 2010)

Hi all,

My Miniature Schnauzer had her first litter on the 24th May this year, she had to have a c-section as the first pup in the queue was large and bum first, I do want Ruby to have one more litter and was planning this to be a year later.

I have a couple of things which concern me, I have been told by my vet (I know not the best source of knowledge on breeding) that it is best to breed on the first season following the c-section  to ensure scar tissue does not hinder conception, There is no way thats happening!

She had a season 3 weeks ago and tends to go 5 - 5 and 1/2 months between seasons meaning that if I do mate her again on her 2nd season following her recent litter then it will not have been a full year since last time, Id prefer her to have full year gap to fully recover. 

What im asking is if I decided to leave it say 15months (3rd season after 1st litter) have any of you encountered scar tissue being a problem? 

Thanks


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

I know people with bulldog bitches who have had 2 or 3 litters by ceasarian and not had a problem. I think they wait at least 12 months before mating again though. If that helps any


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## bellababy (Mar 20, 2010)

Ceearott said:


> I know people with bulldog bitches who have had 2 or 3 litters by ceasarian and not had a problem. I think they wait at least 12 months before mating again though. If that helps any


Yes thankyou, I definitely want to leave it a year despite what my vet say's, I've not encountered anyone I know within my breed having problems before, but it just placed a little worry in my mind when he was adament I should breed on the 1st season after!


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

Thats a bit daft coming from your vet!! Does he not know the KC disagrees with breeding on consecutive seasons - for very good reasons


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## bellababy (Mar 20, 2010)

Ceearott said:


> Thats a bit daft coming from your vet!! Does he not know the KC disagrees with breeding on consecutive seasons - for very good reasons


Exactly! I gave him my view's on the subject, but believe me he was adamant she should be bred on the 1st season after, I remember him saying something about this aswell after she had the c-section too but after 2 sleepless nights I didnt question him about it then. (I have to admit he was excellent with her c-section and aftercare so I am amazed he would have such views!)

Anyway we agreed to disagree!


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Personally is not something I would want to put my dog through!
But thats me!
OK she was OK the first time - but with any litter there is always a risk!
And the fact that she has had one C section I would worry that the same thing could happen again.
DT


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Ceearott said:


> Thats a bit daft coming from your vet!! Does he not know the KC disagrees with breeding on consecutive seasons - for very good reasons


but they still take your money for the litter registrations 

i personally would never mate a bitch again after a c section. jmo


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

dexter said:


> but they still take your money for the litter registrations
> 
> i personally would never mate a bitch again after a c section. jmo


Not if you in the ABS! 

No, I dont think I would either TBH, but I guess its different in the breeds that have smaller litters...........


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## bellababy (Mar 20, 2010)

This is something I am constantly considering, Many believe and have proven that a bitch that has had a c-section has as much chance of going on to have a perfectly normal delivery next time, however some think otherwise. 

I am in constant contact with my mentor, she herself had a bitch who had a section for the same reasons who then went onto have a normal delivery next time.

I really want a pup from Ruby this time which is why I would like to go ahead.


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## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

As long as you are weighing up the pros and cons and you have a mentor, its up to you hun. I certainly wouldnt point the finger as you seem to be doing all the right things. You know your bitch the best.


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Ceearott said:


> Not if you in the ABS!


 it's a joke isn't it?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I dont know much about caesarians in bitches but have had plenty of cows that have had one and there is a risk of them not conceiving but we have never had a problem. I would hate for them to have two in a row though and would definitely not breed after a second one. Humans have more than one with no problems though.

As you say the bitch needed one because of a big bum first pup so it is not like the bitch has a very narrow pelvis so you should be ok with a second litter. It is important to know it was not the bitch's conformation that caused the problem though before considering a second litter. If you do not manage to get her back in pup then it cant be helped but I dont think there is anything wrong with trying.


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## SharonM (Mar 2, 2010)

My girl had a litter last June which ended in a c-section, on Monday of this week she produced 2 puppies born naturally, not sure if she only had the 2 because of scarring or just the timing was wrong, but I have had other bitches have a c-section for one reason or other, but still went on to have a healthy litter later without problems, but I do like to leave one clear season between litters.

You also have to remember the KC, from 1st January 2012, will only register 2 litters born by c-section, if a third is needed they won't allow the pups to be registered.+

Details here: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/3948/23/5/3


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## swarthy (Apr 24, 2010)

Ceearott said:


> Not if you in the ABS!
> 
> No, I dont think I would either TBH, but I guess its different in the breeds that have smaller litters...........


who told you that? unless your breed club specifically states and is agreed by the ABS that the bitch must not whelp more than one litter in a 12 month period (which I think if I remember correctly has just been added for Rotties, and some of the retriever breeds) but - at present, this ruling is on a breed by breed basis unless the breeder is licensed (and therefore is not permitted under the terms of their license to have two litters from the same in a 12 month period)

For the rest, contrary to popular belief pretty much across the board, there is NO such rule in place on this.

I think we also have to remember that consecutive seasons can mean very different things to different breeds and dfferent dogs - one of my friends girls has seasons every 18 months or so - during which time three of my girls will have had three or four a piece as they tend to cycle every 4.5 to 6 months.

=================

The KC won't allow pups to be registered if the bitch has had more than 2 c-Sections - there were organisations pushing for NO pups to be registered from bitches who had c-Sections - but that's a nonsense because although there are breeds not prone to require this level of intervention - but none of us know what will happen until it happens - a bitch could shell her first litter like peas and need a C-section on her second litter.

I think there was also a very real fear that such a rule could lead to people holding off obtaining veterinary intervention placing bitch's lives at risk 

====================================

I am not sure how I would feel - my bitch didn't have a c-section on her first litter - but she did have a rough time with very large pups and just that has really put me off taking another litter from her


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

Personally I have never take a litter from a bitch who has been through a C Section already. Nor can I see myself ever doing it.


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## Scottiegal (Oct 4, 2011)

I had a Scottie bitch several years ago, who needed a C-section when the first pup out got stuck. My vet at the time was a breeder herself and she advised leaving a minimum of a year before mating her again, so that the uterus could heal properly - something to do with risking a rupture. Unfortunately she needed a C-section on her second litter too as a pup died inside and she was going septic. 

The advice I was given by my breed mentor is if the first C-section is for reasons like misplaced pups, you could consider breeding again, but if it was because of uterine inertia or the dams hips were too small, it was inadvisable as this is probably something she would pass onto her pups. Also never more than 2 C-sections.


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