# Literally don't understand my cats behaviour!



## Linda Pasterson (Oct 26, 2015)

Hi everyone!

We adopted 2 x 6 month old kittens (brother & Sister) 4 weeks ago. We were told they were slow learners, but that they were litter-box trained etc. They're the sweetest little things, have given us much amusement and enjoyment, and apart from being messy eaters, they are very well behaved.

However - The litter-box thing is a problem...

When they first arrived with us, we had some litter-box problems... They don't like ANY litter (including Cattract), only newspaper. Just newspaper. No magazines, no tissue paper, just newspaper. Then they started to occasionally use the box for wee's, but not poo's, so we figured it was just them settling into new environment. They initially only ever pooped or wee'd in our tiled kitchen, but they're starting to creep into the hallway, and closer to their food/front room...

just to give a summary on the whole situation -


We live in 4 bed detached house and as yet haven't let them out (one of them is blind, and the other is deaf) and they pretty much have free reign
They have 3 litter boxes, two exactly the same, the 3rd with lower sides, which are 'together' but separate, spread between kitchen and hallway (kitchen tiled, hallway wooden floor)
They only ever pee in the hallway and the kitchen near the litter boxes
Probably 3/4 times a week there is wee in one of the boxes but not the same box, it seems to change every time
I properly clean all of the boxes at the same time once a week
If we catch them weeing/pooing then we pick them up and put them in a litter box
Once, when we had company, Little MIss pooped in the litter tray right in front of us (we were not paying her any attention at the time)
We've rewarded them when we've caught them using the boxes
We have one box for this week that we've put litter in to see if it makes any difference, but Little Mister seems to think it's a toy and just flicks the litter with his front paws out of the box...
We clean the pee up with Urine Off and then Dettol
I just literally don't know what to do with them! There's no question of getting rid of them, we would never do that, but we need to get to the root of the problem because first thing in the morning, spending 30 minutes cleaning up after them... I can't take it much more!! 

PLEASE any advice or anything we're doing wrong?!

Thank you in advance!


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## Rainfall (Nov 4, 2015)




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## LoopyL (Jun 16, 2015)

Don't use dettol to clean litter trays it is harmful to cats & they prob don't like the smell. I'd just use fairy liquid & hope


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## Linda Pasterson (Oct 26, 2015)

Oh dear! I had no idea about Dettol being poisonous to cats! I just Googled it, I feel terrible!

Thanks though guys.


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## LoopyL (Jun 16, 2015)

Don't feel bad you didn't feed any to them! Hopefully they'll start using their litter trays properly once the smell has gone


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Hi there 
Have you read the sticky at the top of the page?
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/...ouse-this-is-the-house-soiling-thread.371806/
Also please don't let them out! They should be kept as house cats if blind or deaf, the outside world is far too dangerous for them. x


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Oh boy, you have my sympathy! Lets hope we can solve this issue so you can get back to enjoying your kitties 100%
Hmm, you say they did not even like the Cat Attract Litter? Shame.
Have you tried using Puppy pads or Inco pads in or around the trays?


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## Linda Pasterson (Oct 26, 2015)

Thanks everyone. I have read the sticky post, which is brilliant, really helpful. We've been following instructions from that as best we can. We initially only had 2 trays, but they've got 3 now etc etc. Vet has checked over and there isn't anything wrong with them, apart from their 'difficulties'. I'm tempted to go back to get referred to a cat behaviourist!

Sorry, I should have clarified, we'd only let them out into the back garden which is totally enclosed, plus they have problems with their back legs so they can't climb/jump, which is why we decided to get the low sided litter tray. They do get in and out of all the trays okay though, because they seem to like just getting in them and sitting there.

Not liking the Cat Attract was a problem given how much it was but we're willing to try anything! 

To be fair, someone else in the previous post mentioned the pads and I have to be honest, I totally forgot about them because that seemed like a good idea! I'm going to order some right now!


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

http://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/30-quilted-puppy-training-pads-60-x-60cm-244704


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

Aw bless they sound adorable! Please keep us posted on their progress xx


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
I'm about to be Debby Downer - just fair warning, Gentle Reader,
this isn't a fairy dust & bee-nectar post, so don't expect spun-sugar
trees & unicorns that sh!t cookie-dough. I'll stick to facts - i like
fantasy, but these kittens aren't fiction.
.
OP, U adopted or bought littermates described as 'Slow learners"
by the breeder; a few posts later, the kittens are both congenitally
damaged [1 deaf, 1 blind; altho we don't know which is which, M
or F] -- then a few more posts, & the kittens have "rear leg problems"
so they can't climb or jump.
.
Exactly WHAT are the "rear leg" issues? - I am beginning to suspect
that they're neurological, & i also suspect that these kittens have far-
more wrong with them than right, congenitally speaking.
.
Apparently since reading the litter-box sticky, U took Ur kittens to be
seen by a vet. What neuro-tests, if any, did the vet do?
What did the vet say about their overall development?
.
Didn't it occur to U as a consumer, that kittens who are SIBLINGS
& each have significant congenital issues [blind, deaf, AND with
impaired gait / limited mobility], plus the breeder says they're "slow",
whatever that might mean, could be very demanding pets?
.
Demanding as in needy, needing more than the usual amount of
care, more than the usual "put down a litterbox & they use it" sim-
plicity of normal kittens, who have all their senses & are fully mo-
bile?
.
Also, at 6-MO, are they already desexed? --- they should be.
.
6-MO males are fertile, & 6-MO females can come into heat.
To say nothing of the immorality of breeding a sire or dam with not
mere cosmetic faults, but with major heritable defects [the afore-
mentioned deaf, blind, AND impaired rear-limb function, plus the
ominous but vague "slow learners"].
If these 2 produced an "accidental" litter, the consequences for
their kittens could be catastrophic.
.
.


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## moggie14 (Sep 11, 2013)

I found OPs original thread, forgot these kittens were adopted from a rescue.
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/6-month-old-kittens-with-issues-early-risers.414351/
I presume they are neutered. I'm sure you can solve the litter tray issues. Just wondered if you have tried shredding up some newspaper and adding it to the litter, maybe it's the smell they like? x


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Linda Pasterson, sorry you are having these problems still with your little ones. I am sure you are not doing anything wrong at all. The Rescue may have been saying truthfully the kittens were using their trays, but the fact is that cats and kittens will often use their trays OK when they are kept in pens at the Shelter, or with a foster carer, but may not do so as reliably once they have the run of a larger area when homed.

I am not suggesting you keep your kitties in a pen, but it may be worth considering caging them at night so that any mess they make can be contained, and much easier to clean up in the morning. Caging is also a recognised method of retraining cats to use the tray.

You would need a large folding dog crate, big enough for their beds, food, water bowl and two litter trays. You could put puppy training pads in the trays.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cozy-Pet-Qu...sr=8-1-spons&keywords=folding+dog+crate&psc=1

If they like using newspaper in their trays, have you tried them with recycled paper litter? You could add some torn up newspaper to it at first to get them started.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fresh-News-...d=1448486654&sr=8-2&keywords=paper+cat+litter

I am sorry the Cat Attract litter has not worked, it is very successful in many cases, but as your little ones have possible neurological damage the scent signals it gives out may not be as easily interpreted by them.

At the end of the day if they will use their trays with newspaper in them, could you accept that as the best outcome rather than them soil the floor? As they have disabilities which have possibly caused some cognitive as well as the apparent physical impairment, it may be the best way forward.


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## Linda Pasterson (Oct 26, 2015)

Leashed for life - I just feel the need to say that we never took on the kittens expecting to all to be roses and forgive the pun, kittens. We were fully aware what we were taking on, and as I've said, we absolutely are not considering any other option other than fixing it, or just dealing with it. I was asking for advice. Excuse me, I didn't need or expect your opinion on whether we were willing to take the effort involved in looking after them. We had many options of perfectly healthy kittens, but we chose these two because we knew they would be loved, looked after, invested in etc. Would you have preferred for us to leave them behind, or returned them as other people had, and taken on 'easy' cats. I genuinely am unhappy at your response. It was not helpful, it was condescending, and presumptuous. You have absolutely no basis on which to form those opinions and for the record, we've had several cars previously with no problems, we were well versed with the issues these kitten had before we took them on which made us fall in love with them all the more and we had full notes explaining oxygen deprivation at birth etc. Yes they have been neutered.

As for everyone else, you have all been helpful, as always, and thank you for your suggestions, we will be giving them a go  The Cats Protection have also given us some suggestions, as they knew they would be troublesome, they are being very supportive.


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## Linda Pasterson (Oct 26, 2015)

chillminx said:


> @Linda Pasterson, sorry you are having these problems still with your little ones. I am sure you are not doing anything wrong at all. The Rescue may have been saying truthfully the kittens were using their trays, but the fact is that cats and kittens will often use their trays OK when they are kept in pens at the Shelter, or with a foster carer, but may not do so as reliably once they have the run of a larger area when homed.
> 
> I am not suggesting you keep your kitties in a pen, but it may be worth considering caging them at night so that any mess they make can be contained, and much easier to clean up in the morning. Caging is also a recognised method of retraining cats to use the tray.
> 
> ...


Hi Chillminx, thanks again! Yes, more than happy if they choose to just use newspaper, that's all the would use at the fosterers too. Cats Protection have suggested leaving paper on the floor around the trays, which is where the go to pee, and then reducing the size of the area.

We'll get there! Tonight they both used the litters trays for wee's so they've been well fed on tuna tonight!  xx


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## leashedForLife (Nov 1, 2009)

.
.
OK - U say that U were well-prepared, considered carefully, etc.
They've been desexed, which is excellent.
.
I would join the poster above in urging U not to let them roam. WIth their
multiple neuro-issues & missing senses, they can't avoid dangers that
they can't perceive, & they certainly can't FLEE dangers, nor can they de-
fend themselves effectively.
Dogs, vehicles, & other roaming cats are all threats to their health & lives.
.
.
Because they cannot defend themselves, i'd also urge U to install cat-proof 
fencing to exclude other cats from the household garden. Ur kittens already
have litterbox issues, & interlopers invading their garden would just be one
more reason to void elsewhere, in protest; U don't want social stress to
prompt territorial marking.
[At 6-MO, they are old-enuf to be marking.]
.
I wouldn't surround the catbox with paper. That only confuses them by
enlarging the target outside the box. U need the boundaries of the box to
become a reliable cue: "Go INSIDE this".
.
I would [as someone else already said, above] confine them in a larger cage
within the house, so that the litter boxes are RIGHT THERE & virtually una-
voidable.
.
More suggestions:
Until they are 100% reliable, access to the larger house would be only under
direct adult supervision; any beginning movement to pee or poop would mean
a quick trip for both, right back to the kitty-cage.
Scoop 'em up against Ur body, scruffing gently with one hand so they cannot
leap & fall, with Ur forearm pinning one to either side. *Practice* while they're
small, as U squat: hold one clasped with Ur forearm so their torso won't slip &
hold the other clasped round the ribs, under the elbows, with the same hand;
the kitty in hand has their BUTT - not their hind feet! - on Ur thigh, as U squat.
.
That specific position gives U one arm & hand free to unlatch the cage & insert
them one at a time; with the kitten in hand resting curled on their butt, feet up,
s/he can't leap away or try to use U as a launching pad - painfully.
.
U can practice that position - rear feet up, butt curled & tummy exposed, with
the torso supported upright - with both kittens. Using both hands, one to scruff
& the other to support the torso, will teach them to RELAX in that pose; kittens,
pups & other neonate mammals relax when scruffed to allow Mom to move 'em
safely. Using that automatic reflex before they outgrow it, will associate scruff / 
relax & butt curled-up, so they won't fight to regain their feet & escape.
.
A very comforting way to practice it is to rest the kitten against Ur body, butt
cupped in one palm & the other hand lightly scruffing her / him. U can be sit-
ting or standing, or even squat; Kitty sits semi-erect, bum curled, side resting
full-length against Ur torso. They can hear Ur heartbeat when resting against
Ur body, & this, too, is an auto-reflex to relax - uterine sounds include Mom's
heartbeat & voices [Mom-cat's, any human, other cats, etc].
.
The deaf kitten will still respond to being held against Ur torso, as s/he will feel
the thud-dup of the heart as vibration, even without hearing it.
.
The rhythm of Ur own breathing can also be a cue to relax - breathe in deeply,
exhale slowly.

TIP: Don't "pat" with rapid, tentative touch; _pet_ firmly with full hand contact &
run the length of the body or limb, with the hair growth. Think of smoothing
the sheets on a freshly-made bed, or polishing the curving leg of an antique
table - firm, supportive, steady contact.
.
*Enrichment:*
Use their other senses to give them things to explore & new thrills.
Both of them have Odor & Touch as primary senses to explore; catnip, culi-
nary herbs, mild spices, etc, are safe, fun things to play with. Rosemary, o-
regano, thyme, etc; unsprayed flowers [organic bouquets], roses, mint, any
perfumed or natural scents. ESSENTIAL OILS are way-too strong.
Textures, hot & cold, fake sheepskin, crackle-toys with Mylar under fabric,
small soft-toys they can carry & swat, larger soft-toys they can clasp & kill,
"plague rats", catnip SPRAY, Feliway spritzed at kitty head-height, etc, etc,
etc.
There are BOOKS on enrichment - buy or borrow one [library].

Good luck. They may never be able to be outside the cage for more than 20
to 30-mins at a time, as they may need nonstop supervision to prevent toilet
errors, & realistically, most ppl can't do nothing but monitor the activities of 2
animals for more than a half-hour at a time.
Quality time with human company is better than "freedom" alone to toilet any-
where in the house. 
.
.
.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

I only just saw this thread and your previous one OP and, tbh, I don't have the experience to offer any advice beyond what you have had already. I just want to comment about how lovely it is that you chose two special cats like this. It is just heartwarming. I hope it works out happily for all of you .


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Just wanted to say I think you're doing a great job! Glad that someone took on these two kitties and saved them from the rescue!

Hope it gets easier with the toileting issues.

Z xx


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## Linda Pasterson (Oct 26, 2015)

Awwwe thanks guys  They're smashing kittens. The litter tray thing is really the only problem with them. They're really playful, loving, well behaved. Some of their behaviour is hilarious! we're not expecting them to make very old bones, but when the CP said they'd been returned twice, and passed from various fosteres (we were I think the fifth or sixth home they'd been to in 6 months) there wasn't really any choice for us, no way we could leave them behind. We knew we'd look after them, and pee and poops aside, we are so delighted that we did. Love them so much! 

Thanks for all the advice Leashed, I must admit the one armed holding of them is beyond me, but fortunately if you plonk them down, they tend to stay put unless encouraged to move


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## Linda Pasterson (Oct 26, 2015)

Just a quick side question really, it's not a concern, just interested - But anyone else ever had a cat that growls when eating something they really like? Even if no-one is around him? Davros, he doesn't like to share food... He growls and hisses when he's eating something he REALLY likes, even if Tink, me or husband are no-where near him? I don't think he's distressed, and when he's finished eating he trots through and looks thoroughly pleased as he licks himself from top to toe, but just wondering if anyone else has had a growling monster at food-time?!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Cats as you know are often protective about their food, and growl to warn other cats, or even humans to stay away when they are eating. Even more so if it is food they really love.  I think the behaviour with Davros is compensatory because he is without one of his physical senses. I am not sure if he is the deaf one or the blind one, but either way he would be warning others off whilst he is too busy concentrating on his food to keep checking if anyone is near him or not. Very cute though


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

It really tickles me hearing cats growl! Ive known a few kittens do it, carrying their toys around. My cat Hux used to growl too - but that was a bit scary - as it was aimed at me haha.


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Yes, Davros is not the only kitty to be so fierce with his favourite foods. You tend to hear it quite a lot when cats eats raw food or prey....Wiggie does it with his day old chicks ( they come frozen/defrosted I hasten to add)


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## Linda Pasterson (Oct 26, 2015)

Cool, thanks guys  Just wondered because I haven't come across it before! They've got their own separate bowls and separate eating areas which they share between them, but Tink will always go to where Davros is eating, and he growls, but he backs down and goes to the other bowl, and after a couple of minutes, Tink will wonder over too. It's quite amusing to watch. But then other times me and husband are upstairs with Tink, and we can hear him growling to himself downstairs! Haha 

Anyway, thanks guys, good to know he's not alone 

I am sorry to keep posting on this thread (Am I supposed to open a new one?), but going back to the litter training, at the weekend we had another couple of friends over for dinner (different friends to before), and Tink used the litter tray for a poop again? She's only done it when we have company?! And she wasn't stressed out at all, both of them stayed with us the whole night, sleeping and playing etc. I wish I could understand it!


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

Ahh, the day any of us understands the inner workings of the feline mind will be a great day indeed!


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## Linda Pasterson (Oct 26, 2015)

Couldn't agree more Paddy, and I guess that's why cats are awesome


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## andrewjacson (Feb 2, 2015)

Cat behavior is complicated, so cat owners should learn about cat facts and check our cat food advisor, information about cats diseases and cat diet.


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## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

I'd use OKO litter, its designed to clump together in small lumps so you can leave most of the litter inside the box and take out the lumps and poop


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