# Netherland Dwarfs



## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

I have 2 female Netherland dwarfs with a few behavioral problems, they are buggers when you try to get them out of their hutch to move them to their run(stomping, kicking, the very occasional bite), they are also buggers to catch cos they are so small, lol.

I think with time, and a lot of patience they would come round, but to be honest with 5 other rabbits, 5 guineas plus others I havent got the hours to spend with them. I obviously am happy to keep them as I have done for the last year, that doesnt worry me, but I wanted to see if there was anyone about that could give them the time to get them tame etc etc and therefore give them a better life than they have now.

I will warn everyone, these are not pets for kids, they are not for someone with little patience or perserverance  and as I said I will willingly keep them, because I believe once you have a pet, its your responsiblity till it dies but wondered if there may be a better owner than me for these.

They are about 15 months I think, will have to check, both girls. I am in Cambridgeshire near Peterborough. They are in a 6ft hutch at the moment which is built in, so that can't go. I have got a 4ft that isn't used tho.

I still dunno if I want to rehome them, but it could be better for them, let me know if you are interested or want more information.

*Heidi*


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Are they spayed?


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

no they arn't spayed crofty.

*heidi*


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## toddy (Jan 24, 2009)

If you get them spayed you will find their behaviour will settle down a great deal.
Many females become aggressive,hutch protective before spaying but turn into lovely rabbits once done.
Personally if you are happy to keep them then the best thing you could do for them is to have them done.You will be amazed at the difference.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

I've got two Netherland dwarfs and I find the female is more easy going than the male who has been neutered. They live seperately in a two storey hutch each with a run attached which they have access to 24 hours a day. Binka, my male is okay if you take him away from his hutch. I have to bath him sometimes because he tends to get a ball of poo stuck to his bottom and he's fine with being bathed and never attempts to bite me or have a go but the other day I opened his hutch door to put some greens in and he grunted at me. Rosie our female never does this - she's more placid than Binka even though he's neuteured.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Well i'm not sure what you expect then??  

There behaviour is perfectly natural, they should have been spayed by now for health reasons anyway. Alot of does are rehomed for this reason which is completely avoidable.

Nethies are especially hormonal, spay them and you will have happier easier to handle bunnies, problem solved.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

I had a female netherland dwarf and she was exacly the same always stamping, grunting and boxing but only when she was in her hutch. once you picked her up tho she was fine. netherland dwarfs do tend to be more nasty then other breeds i or any of my friends have had and females in general tend to be less docile then males, so id get them spayed personally, it might not calm the down completly but it will mean you wont have to spend quite so much time trying to tame them. Oh and ours was a sucker for rasins/dried apricots so try and find what food they like most and feed them that while stroking and talking to them. just to get them more used to you. they will assciate you with tasty treats and so you will become a good thing, im doing this with one of my new females now.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

Jazzy said:


> I've got two Netherland dwarfs and I find the female is more easy going than the male who has been neutered. They live seperately in a two storey hutch each with a run attached which they have access to 24 hours a day. Binka, my male is okay if you take him away from his hutch. I have to bath him sometimes because he tends to get a ball of poo stuck to his bottom and he's fine with being bathed and never attempts to bite me or have a go but the other day I opened his hutch door to put some greens in and he grunted at me. Rosie our female never does this - she's more placid than Binka even though he's neuteured.


our netherland dwarf was like this too, hated people but really enjoyed being bathed and blowdried. strange really.


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

crofty said:


> Well i'm not sure what you expect then??
> 
> There behaviour is perfectly natural, they should have been spayed by now for health reasons anyway. Alot of does are rehomed for this reason which is completely avoidable.
> 
> Nethies are especially hormonal, spay them and you will have happier easier to handle bunnies, problem solved.


I dont like the idea of putting them under the anethetic un-nesserarily, just so I get an easier time with them, the smaller breeds epecially have huge mortality rates where they just dont come round from it. If it was for a medical problem and an anethetic had to be given then fair enough but I dont like the risks. I would rather a grumpy rabbit!

I expect them to at least deal with being picked up, even if they dont like being held for any length of time! All the rabbits I have had have at least learnt to do that. 
I am not rehoming them because of the behavioural problems, I'm not even looking to definately rehome them, I was wondering if there was someone out there who wanted 2 netherlands anyway, who could spend the time with them that they need, they will never go to a rescue!

*Heidi*


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## foxxy cleopatra (Nov 18, 2008)

i dont know as much as crofty...but i believe you should neuter females especially because of cancer....so you are preventing it....
i can tell you love your bunnies, but maybe you should consider the pros and cons of getting them spayed...


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## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

To be honest, and I know people are gonna hate me for this, but I have had 4 female rabbits in the past, none spayed, plus my 4 now, so thats 8 that havent had cancer without being spayed. The females at college wernt spayed, because they had the males neutered, none of them got cancer. I dont see it as a preventative because I see the risk of cancer as fairly low, until I came on here, I had never even heard anyone mention that there rabbit had got it/had it or that it was a problem. These 2 are also the only 2 that have been a problem with grumpyness to this extent, its not just in the hutch!
I'm dreading the replies to this, but thats how I see it, if it was a huge huge problem in female rabbits(like in female ferrets) then it would be more highly mentioned by vets etc etc because they want your money! I have taken a couple of the females there in the past, never has it been mentioned.

*Heidi*


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

hazyreality said:


> To be honest, and I know people are gonna hate me for this, but I have had 4 female rabbits in the past, none spayed, plus my 4 now, so thats 8 that havent had cancer without being spayed. The females at college wernt spayed, because they had the males neutered, none of them got cancer. I dont see it as a preventative because I see the risk of cancer as fairly low, until I came on here, I had never even heard anyone mention that there rabbit had got it/had it or that it was a problem. These 2 are also the only 2 that have been a problem with grumpyness to this extent, its not just in the hutch!
> I'm dreading the replies to this, but thats how I see it, if it was a huge huge problem in female rabbits(like in female ferrets) then it would be more highly mentioned by vets etc etc because they want your money! I have taken a couple of the females there in the past, never has it been mentioned.
> 
> *Heidi*


I feel the same way, i dont particually like spaying, its a lot of stress particually for buns that arent very trusting of people. i am only considering spaying the two i have now becasue they are pulling out their fur and one of them has actually hurt herself, ANd i dont want them going through that all the time. iv never spayed my females in the past and they have all been fine.

I dont belive in stressing out animals and operating on them, making them feel uncomfortable and sore, even for a short time if there is only a small health risk. if they dont get cancer they have gone through an ordeal for nothing, we dont spay people to prevent cancer. Also if people get spayed it causes hormonal problems and they need to be kept on medication for it so why is it ok to do for animals. Also iv seen biunnies die on the operating table and i wouldnt risk it unless necessary


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## toddy (Jan 24, 2009)

I am sorry but I would not call 80% a small risk.
They are the statistics that 80% of unspayed female rabbits go on to develop uterine cancer by the age of 5 years also there is a slighltly lower risk of mammory cancers too.
How can you say that is small risk.
The reason females get grumpy is because of the hormones.They have repeated faulse pregnancies and behavioural problems and that is made worse with two females living together even if they are sisters.
Many people worry and think that rabbits are hard to anaesthetise which is rubbish.Surgery on rabbits is almost as safe as on cats and pose only a small risk.
The fact your rabbits are like this is because they are full of hormones and are unhappy and personally I think you are not being fair in not getting them done.
If you have never heard of unspayed females being a high risk of cancer then you can't have done your research very well.Just because the rabbits you know have not got it does not mean it is not a high risk.The statistics prove this.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

hazyreality said:


> I dont like the idea of putting them under the anethetic un-nesserarily, just so I get an easier time with them, the smaller breeds epecially have huge mortality rates where they just dont come round from it. If it was for a medical problem and an anethetic had to be given then fair enough but I dont like the risks. I would rather a grumpy rabbit!
> 
> I expect them to at least deal with being picked up, even if they dont like being held for any length of time! All the rabbits I have had have at least learnt to do that.
> I am not rehoming them because of the behavioural problems, I'm not even looking to definately rehome them, I was wondering if there was someone out there who wanted 2 netherlands anyway, who could spend the time with them that they need, they will never go to a rescue!
> ...


So you rather they died a horrible death from ca ovary do you? Sorry but thats rubbish, my nethies have been fine under GA and so have hundreds and hundreds of others, 80% of un-neutered does develop cancer of uterus you should be much more concerned with that huge statistic  it is a FACT just because you have had 4 does that havent means you were lucky, how old did they live to? They are at no extra risk than any other rabbit under GA. if you have a decent bunny savvy vet the risk is very small, i dont know where you are getting your incorrect knowledge from.

Sounds like they'd be better off in a rescue where they would be responsible and neuter them and rehome them to someone with time for them.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

cassie01 said:


> our netherland dwarf was like this too, hated people but really enjoyed being bathed and blowdried. strange really.


:laugh:
Oh I wouldn't say he enjoys it - more puts up with it I think.:laugh:

He's around 5 years old now so doubt he will get any better tempered.:laugh:


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

hazyreality said:


> To be honest, and I know people are gonna hate me for this, but I have had 4 female rabbits in the past, none spayed, plus my 4 now, so thats 8 that havent had cancer without being spayed. The females at college wernt spayed, because they had the males neutered, none of them got cancer. I dont see it as a preventative because I see the risk of cancer as fairly low, until I came on here, I had never even heard anyone mention that there rabbit had got it/had it or that it was a problem. These 2 are also the only 2 that have been a problem with grumpyness to this extent, its not just in the hutch!
> I'm dreading the replies to this, but thats how I see it, if it was a huge huge problem in female rabbits(like in female ferrets) then it would be more highly mentioned by vets etc etc because they want your money! I have taken a couple of the females there in the past, never has it been mentioned.
> 
> *Heidi*


I'm with you on this - my female rabbit isn't spayed either although I had the male done so that he could live with a female but too much of a coward to put them together cos I'm scared he would hurt her so they have lived side by side in two storey hutches with attached runs for the last 4 years.:biggrin:

My last female rabbit was 8 years old when we had to have her put to sleep because of a problem with her eye and she was too old to operate. You never used to hear of rabbits being neutered in the old days (showing my age here :skep

I would rather take the risk of cancer than putting her through an operation which isn't exactly cheap.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

cassie01 said:


> I feel the same way, i dont particually like spaying, its a lot of stress particually for buns that arent very trusting of people. i am only considering spaying the two i have now becasue they are pulling out their fur and one of them has actually hurt herself, ANd i dont want them going through that all the time. iv never spayed my females in the past and they have all been fine.
> 
> I dont belive in stressing out animals and operating on them, making them feel uncomfortable and sore, even for a short time if there is only a small health risk. if they dont get cancer they have gone through an ordeal for nothing, we dont spay people to prevent cancer. Also if people get spayed it causes hormonal problems and they need to be kept on medication for it so why is it ok to do for animals. Also iv seen biunnies die on the operating table and i wouldnt risk it unless necessary


Exactly - people get cancer but we don't try and prevent it by taking all the parts out that could get cancer. It's just life unfortunately.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

toddy said:


> I am sorry but I would not call 80% a small risk.
> They are the statistics that 80% of unspayed female rabbits go on to develop uterine cancer by the age of 5 years also there is a slighltly lower risk of mammory cancers too.
> How can you say that is small risk.
> The reason females get grumpy is because of the hormones.They have repeated faulse pregnancies and behavioural problems and that is made worse with two females living together even if they are sisters.
> ...


But isn't five years old an average age for a rabbit. With humans the risk of cancer is greater as we get older as it probably is with all animals. Cancer is an horrible disease but in my mind its part of life and as long as the animal isn't left to suffer if it does get cancer then in my book that's okay.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

crofty said:


> So you rather they died a horrible death from ca ovary do you? Sorry but thats rubbish, my nethies have been fine under GA and so have hundreds and hundreds of others, 80% of un-neutered does develop cancer of uterus you should be much more concerned with that huge statistic  it is a FACT just because you have had 4 does that havent means you were lucky, how old did they live to? They are at no extra risk than any other rabbit under GA. if you have a decent bunny savvy vet the risk is very small, i dont know where you are getting your incorrect knowledge from.
> 
> Sounds like they'd be better off in a rescue where they would be responsible and neuter them and rehome them to someone with time for them.


Well that's your opinion but doesn't mean that because a rabbit goes into a rescue that it will end up with the best home possible.

Some people believe in neutering and some don't and I don't think you should attack anyone if they aren't happy with neutering a rabbit that may or may not get cancer as it gets older.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Jazzy said:


> Well that's your opinion but doesn't mean that because a rabbit goes into a rescue that it will end up with the best home possible.
> 
> Some people believe in neutering and some don't and I don't think you should attack anyone if they aren't happy with neutering a rabbit that may or may not get cancer as it gets older.


Are you that ignorant you dont understand that it is a fact that 80% of un-neutered does develop cancer of the uterus????? 

The risks of an operation to spay them are minimal in comparision, most rescues do makesure buns end up in good homes thats why people are homechecked and have to provide references etc. They do a superb job for little thanks.

As for the cost of the operation, if you cannot afford to have your animals dont have them, that is a pitiful excuse, you do not sound like a owner i would home any animal too with that attitude.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Jazzy said:


> Exactly - people get cancer but we don't try and prevent it by taking all the parts out that could get cancer. It's just life unfortunately.


Im a senior staff nurse and work with cancer patients, we do routinely screen patients at high risk unlike in animals, people also at very high risk due to family history do actually opt to have hysterectomys. You cannot compare cancer in humans and animals.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

crofty said:


> Are you that ignorant you dont understand that it is a fact that 80% of un-neutered does develop cancer of the uterus?????
> 
> The risks of an operation to spay them are minimal in comparision, most rescues do makesure buns end up in good homes thats why people are homechecked and have to provide references etc. They do a superb job for little thanks.
> 
> As for the cost of the operation, if you cannot afford to have your animals dont have them, that is a pitiful excuse, you do not sound like a owner i would home any animal too with that attitude.


No I am not that ignorant although you seem to be.

So why don't you go and have YOUR uterus out then and get your breasts chopped off whilst you are there because you never know you may get cancer.

I am not really bothered in the least whether you would home a rabbit to me or not to be honest. I have two rabbits ages four and five that are happy and healthy so what you may think of me doesn't really matter - I don't think much of you to be honest either.:001_rolleyes:

It's not a matter of affording it but its whether you agree with it and personally I don't and if you do then thats fine, your choice. I don't have mine vaccinated either so you can have another go at me too if you like.


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## foxxy cleopatra (Nov 18, 2008)

i really realllly like you jazzy, i think you are fantastic  but rabbits should live till they are like 12...and its fine that you dont agree with spaying, but you really should have the jabs  especially if they are outdoor bunnys


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Im of the opinion that prevention is better than cure. 

If it doesnt bother you that there is a high probability of your rabbit getting cancer, the why bother vaccinating? Statistically, a female rabbit is far more likely to die of ovarian cancer than VHD or myxi.

Small animal anaesthetics have changed remarkably in the past 5-10 years, and i feel using it as an excuse is just that, an excuse. Its now classed as a routine op, the same as with cats and dogs, whereas before, it was classed as a more risky operation. Ive assisted in well over 100 bunny spays, and not one died. Ive seen ovarian cancer on numerous occassions.

Ive had a rabbit with ovarian cancer. We were unable to spay her as due to various other health issues, an anaesthetic WOULD have been dangerous. It was not nice, and being a rabbit, we werent aware until it was severe and she was screaming in pain. I'd personally never run the risk of inflict that amount of suffering on an animal again, when its so simple to prevent.

EDIT: Just seen your comment on vaccinating. Enough said.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Jazzy said:


> But isn't five years old an average age for a rabbit. With humans the risk of cancer is greater as we get older as it probably is with all animals. Cancer is an horrible disease but in my mind its part of life and as long as the animal isn't left to suffer if it does get cancer then in my book that's okay.


Yes because so many are not spayed and die prematurely, i know rabbits that are 14-16 years old, 5 years old is not a good age for a rabbit.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

crofty said:


> Im a senior staff nurse and work with cancer patients, we do routinely screen patients at high risk unlike in animals, people also at very high risk due to family history do actually opt to have hysterectomys. You cannot compare cancer in humans and animals.


I don't really give a toss if you are a senior staff nurse or not to be honest, you definitely need some lessons in the bedside manner approach.

A rabbit lives around 5 - 8 years and if it gets cancer at 5 years old with age then so be it. I agree with neutering if you are going to keep a male and female together but not just incase they get cancer.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Jazzy said:


> No I am not that ignorant although you seem to be.
> 
> So why don't you go and have YOUR uterus out then and get your breasts chopped off whilst you are there because you never know you may get cancer.
> 
> ...


You are not listening to anything im saying and your arguement is completely ridiculous.

As for your buns not been vacc, you should not be allowed to keep animals, have you seen a rabbit with myxi???? Your attitude is disgusting.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Jazzy, do you vaccinate your dog?


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Im of the opinion that prevention is better than cure.
> 
> If it doesnt bother you that there is a high probability of your rabbit getting cancer, the why bother vaccinating? Statistically, a female rabbit is far more likely to die of ovarian cancer than VHD or myxi.
> 
> ...


Yes enough said.:

I don't have my dog vaccinated every year either - don't agree with it and no it's not the money before you jump on that again.:

Anyway you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> Jazzy, do you vaccinate your dog?


Nope - puppy vaccinations only. We have had dogs for over 50 years and all have lived long healthy lives without vaccinations every year. I don't believe in all these vaccinations at all and I know quite a few others that don't either. 
Quite a lot of dogs have died through over vaccination and it's not a risk I am willing to take.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Jazzy said:


> I don't really give a toss if you are a senior staff nurse or not to be honest, you definitely need some lessons in the bedside manner approach.
> 
> A rabbit lives around 5 - 8 years and if it gets cancer at 5 years old with age then so be it. I agree with neutering if you are going to keep a male and female together but not just incase they get cancer.


Maybe not because you sound like such an uneducated uncaring **** You are not exactly a charmer yourself. You are the one that doesnt vacc your rabbits. As i said before humans are screened for cancer animals routinely arent, 80% is a huge statistic but im guessing you dont really understand, maybe try learning a little maths


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## foxxy cleopatra (Nov 18, 2008)

jazzy is actaully really nice...


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

crofty said:


> You are not listening to anything im saying and your arguement is completely ridiculous.
> 
> As for your buns not been vacc, you should not be allowed to keep animals, have you seen a rabbit with myxi???? Your attitude is disgusting.


Well we've had rabbits for over 40 years and not lost one to Myxi yet.
I think your attitude is disgusting too - god help the poor patients on your ward because you seem to like bullying people who don't have the same opinion to you.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

Jazzy said:


> I don't really give a toss if you are a senior staff nurse or not to be honest, you definitely need some lessons in the bedside manner approach.
> 
> A rabbit lives around 5 - 8 years and if it gets cancer at 5 years old with age then so be it. I agree with neutering if you are going to keep a male and female together but not just incase they get cancer.


I agree, if male and female are going together its a different case, in the wild these rabbits would not have the option of being spayed. I think we are all just gonna have to agree to disagree here because i dont thnk anyone is going to back down, i donet believe in surgery unless there is a real need for it. and just like jazzy im not gonna change my mind either so maybe we should just stop arguing over this and get back to the original post. she clearly doesnt want to spay so why keep going on about it. we are going to scare her off.

If everyone thought the same and believed the same the world would become very boring so lets just all stop arguing and agree that everyone can have their own opinion.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

crofty said:


> Maybe not because you sound like such an uneducated uncaring **** You are not exactly a charmer yourself. You are the one that doesnt vacc your rabbits. As i said before humans are screened for cancer animals routinely arent, 80% is a huge statistic but im guessing you dont really understand, maybe try learning a little maths


How are humans screened for cancer?

Okay we have cervical screening at 25 years old every 3 years till we are 50 and breast cancer screening at 50 years old but that's about it until you go to the doctors with a problem and they do tests to see if it is cancer.

I am not sure I actually believe the 80% to tell you the truth - where do you get your figures from?

You really are a rude individual and not one I really want to bother with anymore so you will have the pleasure of being the first on my ignore list.:biggrin5:


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## umber (Feb 15, 2009)

Jazzy said:


> No I am not that ignorant although you seem to be.
> 
> So why don't you go and have YOUR uterus out then and get your breasts chopped off whilst you are there because you never know you may get cancer.
> 
> ...


I do usually try to stay out of the heated arguments... but I here I couldnt.... Jazzy sorry sweety but that was a really childish reply im actually shocked by it, it was so rude and I do think you need to review your own bedside manner before advising others to.

The debate here was about spaying or not. The fact is... I didnt make it up, neither did Crofty or Nonnie or anyone else on this forum its a statistically proven fact that 80% of rabbits develop cancer of the uterus before the age of 5. So if one can prevent it from happening then I See that as a great thing and something to be taken advantage off. If there was a proven statistic that said 80% of women were to develop breast cancer before the age of 30 and there was an op to remove them and prevent you sure would see me on the top of that list. Cancer in animals or humans is a nasty disease its heart breaking and painful ask me... I lost my grandmother and my mother to it at a young age unfortunatly.

As for not getting your rabbits jabs done... its not a case of having a go at you its a case of advising you to do it for the welfare of your rabbits! I hope your rabbits never develop cancer or myxi or vhd as it would be very painful and nasty and would also be a nasty and torturous thing for you to deal with and I would not wish it on anyone!


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

cassie01 said:


> I agree, if male and female are going together its a different case, in the wild these rabbits would not have the option of being spayed. I think we are all just gonna have to agree to disagree here because i dont thnk anyone is going to back down, i donet believe in surgery unless there is a real need for it. and just like jazzy im not gonna change my mind either so maybe we should just stop arguing over this and get back to the original post. she clearly doesnt want to spay so why keep going on about it. we are going to scare her off.
> 
> If everyone thought the same and believed the same the world would become very boring so lets just all stop arguing and agree that everyone can have their own opinion.


Someone with a brain at last - thank you.

Why do people seem to think that there opinion is the only one that matters and then start slagging people off if they don't agree.
It used to be thought that vaccinating dogs every year was the best way too but now it turns out that it isn't and dogs are dying from being over vaccinated.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

umber said:


> I do usually try to stay out of the heated arguments... but I here I couldnt.... Jazzy sorry sweety but that was a really childish reply im actually shocked by it, it was so rude and I do think you need to review your own bedside manner before advising others to.
> 
> The debate here was about spaying or not. The fact is... I didnt make it up, neither did Crofty or Nonnie or anyone else on this forum its a statistically proven fact that 80% of rabbits develop cancer of the uterus before the age of 5. So if one can prevent it from happening then I See that as a great thing and something to be taken advantage off. If there was a proven statistic that said 80% of women were to develop breast cancer before the age of 30 and there was an op to remove them and prevent you sure would see me on the top of that list. Cancer in animals or humans is a nasty disease its heart breaking and painful ask me... I lost my grandmother and my mother to it at a young age unfortunatly.
> 
> As for not getting your rabbits jabs done... its not a case of having a go at you its a case of advising you to do it for the welfare of your rabbits! I hope your rabbits never develop cancer or myxi or vhd as it would be very painful and nasty and would also be a nasty and torturous thing for you to deal with and I would not wish it on anyone!


Well like I said before I have my opinon and you lot are entitled to yours.

I really can't see what is rude about my reply.

I just detest bullying on forums.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Jazzy said:


> Well we've had rabbits for over 40 years and not lost one to Myxi yet.
> I think your attitude is disgusting too - god help the poor patients on your ward because you seem to like bullying people who don't have the same opinion to you.


You are still putting them at a huge risk and if your average age is 5-8 years then that says alot!

Im not bullying anyone  its not an opinion it is an animnals welfare issue which is supported 100% by the rspca based on EVIDENCE.

I work in a hospice caring for patients dying from cancer, im a district nurse and i work in the hospital my patients are very well cared for thankyou. I also love animals and hate it when people do not look after them properly. You are in no position to judge me, I love dedicating my life to others and my rabbits have everything they need no matter what the cost!!!!!! They are worth it.

Im not arguing with you anymore its clear im wasting my breath, you are pathetic, i feel sorry for your rabbits.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

crofty said:


> You are still putting them at a huge risk and if your average age is 5-8 years then that says alot!
> 
> Im not bullying anyone  its not an opinion it is an animnals welfare issue which is supported 100% by the rspca based on EVIDENCE.
> 
> ...


Well that's your choice - feel sorry for them then.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

umber said:


> I do usually try to stay out of the heated arguments... but I here I couldnt.... Jazzy sorry sweety but that was a really childish reply im actually shocked by it, it was so rude and I do think you need to review your own bedside manner before advising others to.
> 
> The debate here was about spaying or not. The fact is... I didnt make it up, neither did Crofty or Nonnie or anyone else on this forum its a statistically proven fact that 80% of rabbits develop cancer of the uterus before the age of 5. So if one can prevent it from happening then I See that as a great thing and something to be taken advantage off. If there was a proven statistic that said 80% of women were to develop breast cancer before the age of 30 and there was an op to remove them and prevent you sure would see me on the top of that list. Cancer in animals or humans is a nasty disease its heart breaking and painful ask me... I lost my grandmother and my mother to it at a young age unfortunatly.
> 
> As for not getting your rabbits jabs done... its not a case of having a go at you its a case of advising you to do it for the welfare of your rabbits! I hope your rabbits never develop cancer or myxi or vhd as it would be very painful and nasty and would also be a nasty and torturous thing for you to deal with and I would not wish it on anyone!


Yeh I completely agree, my mum has terminal breast and bone cancer and i can tell you it kills me to see her in pain. I also lost my 28 year old step brother 2 years ago.

Thankyou Umber, I just dont understand why nasty, uncaring, ignorant people bother having animals.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

And you my dear are a nasty little bully.


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## umber (Feb 15, 2009)

I think this thread needs to be closed as its only attracting childish comments!


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

i think we should get back to the original post. it was about whether anyone would want to take on 2 netherland dwarfs in case youve all forgotten. 

Maybe heidi should repost this in the classifieds instead or get someone to move it. Sorry heidi if youve been scared off. these people are generally well meaning even if they are a bit too opinionated and argumentative. 

I dont know anyone whos after any rabbits at the moment, id love to have more buns but i dont have the room until i move and iv just taken on two girls, one of which needs some taming. Hope you manage to sort something out.


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## petforum (Oct 30, 2007)

Please note this thread will be closed if arguing continues.

Thanks
​


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## kellyrich (Jan 8, 2009)

cassie01 said:


> i think we should get back to the original post. it was about whether anyone would want to take on 2 netherland dwarfs in case youve all forgotten.
> 
> Maybe heidi should repost this in the classifieds instead or get someone to move it. Sorry heidi if youve been scared off. these people are generally well meaning even if they are a bit too opinionated and argumentative.
> 
> I dont know anyone whos after any rabbits at the moment, id love to have more buns but i dont have the room until i move and iv just taken on two girls, one of which needs some taming. Hope you manage to sort something out.


Well said, there are too may people that want to argue sometimes and its not fair when people are just wanting help and advice. Trying to bite my lip!!

Heidi good luck with rehoming them and dont take anything personally xx


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

I am just expresisng my opinion like everyone else that does not make me a bully, jazzy made it personal, its an opinion shared by all rabbit welfare organisations and rescues, just feel sorry for the rabbits that have to suffer due to some owners ignorance.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

I really don't see how I made it personal - you was the one coming out with all the insults because I didn't agree with you.

Anyway lets just agree to disagree.


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## crofty (May 2, 2008)

Jazzy said:


> I really don't see how I made it personal - you was the one coming out with all the insults because I didn't agree with you.
> 
> Anyway lets just agree to disagree.


No I simply replied to your post. This is getting silly now, you just wound me up because I adore rabbits and i hate the thought of them not being looked after the way they should. At the end like i said i look after my buns the way welfare organisations advise being medical i completely agree with the rationale behind my decisions with my buns health. They are healthy and happy and thats all that i care about.


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

My rabbits are very well looked after but just not in a way you agree with - there is a difference.


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## umber (Feb 15, 2009)

I do believe that both of you Crofty and Jazzy love your pets...it would be hard not to! 

We have all expressed our opinions which we are entitled to so I guess we do as cassie said and get back to poor Heidis orig post and agree to disagree!


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## Vixie (Nov 17, 2007)

this thread is closed for moderating and will be opened when its done


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