# Working Vs Show



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

I thought i'd start a new thread about the working vs show look rather than hijacking a thread.









Working English Springer Spaniel










Often The working is smaller and sleeker built and has no real set pattern. The show comes in a slightly larger build and often their coats come in jacket forming pattern rather than mismatched.

The temperment is also different working are often allot more high strung and the show are calmer.









Working English Cocker Spaniel









Show English Cocker Spaniel

Unlike the Springer the cocker goes in a different direction, Show are often smaller where as the working are taller and can sometimes have a springer look to them. I believe them temperaments are the same working being more high strung and show calmer.









Working Labrador Retriever









Show Labrador Retriever

As you can see the working is a sleeker variety unlike the show which is a stockier build. I have heard the temperament is the same as most working vs show.









Working Clumber Spaniels (best image I could find)









Show Clumber Spaniel

The show breed are again a stockier variety, i can't say much about these as clumbers are not my strong point.

As you can see there is a difference and from what I've heard a variety of people are even trying to get the shown and working springer classed as two different breeds.

Feel free to post if you have some more examples, but I thought i'd help


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

The show spaniels have much longer ears...

I'm not sure that the photo you have added of the show labrador is a show... it does not have the barrel ribs that are favoured in the ring...


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

oh wow!

I have never seen the two types of springer together before! I have to say i prefer the look of the working one! If only i had the time and energy to own one


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Dundee said:


> The show spaniels have much longer ears...
> 
> I'm not sure that the photo you have added of the show labrador is a show... it does not have the barrel ribs that are favoured in the ring...


Yes I forgot to mention that 

Yeah, blame google for that

I got these too if this makes it better



















Labs are not my strongest point either, I just know more about spaniels


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

billyboysmammy said:


> oh wow!
> 
> I have never seen the two types of springer together before! I have to say i prefer the look of the working one! If only i had the time and energy to own one


I prefer the working my partner loves the show but I got best of boths as Barney is a show x working :lol:


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

Yes Oscar is definately all show . Nice to see the picture i have always thought Oscar will be a good example having read the standard and seen pictures (shame i can't show him ). I would say he is quite calm and doesn't appear to require the high levels of stimulation and exercise i had expected but that may just be his temperament.


Thankyou Springerhusky you have just reminded me how much i love the Clumber spaniel 

The show springer we had was nothing like the working one we had, they looked totally different and the show one was alot calmer but again that could just be coincidence.


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## Dundee (Oct 20, 2008)

> Yes I forgot to mention that


It's one of the main 'pet hates' that working folk have and clearly demonstrates the effect of breeding for looks alone. The reality is that the show dogs would be a recipe for disaster working in cover with ears like that.... so cannot do its job properly. That and the fact that the natural working instincts tend to get bred out as the current trend in looks take priority.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

Dundee said:


> It's one of the main 'pet hates' that working folk have and clearly demonstrates the effect of breeding for looks alone. The reality is that the show dogs would be a recipe for disaster working in cover with ears like that.... so cannot do its job properly. That and the fact that the natural working instincts tend to get bred out as the current trend in looks take priority.


It's the same with the cockers ears, they have got ridiculously long. (have you seen the things they put over them like socks)

I fear Oscars will be quite epic as his mums were but obviously he won't "work"


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Dundee said:


> It's one of the main 'pet hates' that working folk have and clearly demonstrates the effect of breeding for looks alone. The reality is that the show dogs would be a recipe for disaster working in cover with ears like that.... so cannot do its job properly. That and the fact that the natural working instincts tend to get bred out as the current trend in looks take priority.


That is quite true though you still hear of people working the show breed, when I was at discover dogs the guy had two show bred ess's and told me he shows and works them and has no problems, 'cause I always thought the heavier spaniels would have more of a problem.

I don't work or show, though I have helped show with some flat coats I'm just trying to show the difference here, and do reccomend anybody who can update these facts more than I have is very useful.


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## Lily's Mum (Jan 22, 2009)

SpringerHusky said:


> Yes I forgot to mention that
> 
> Yeah, blame google for that
> 
> ...


Just a point - have the people in this picture given you their permission to post their picture on this foruim?


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Lily's Mum said:


> Just a point - have the people in this picture given you their permission to post their picture on this foruim?


They are off google :blink:


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

I think most dual purpose dogs will only do picking up as this doesn't usually entail the constant work in cover that is the main work of a spaniel either in the beating line or as a rough shooters dog


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

rona said:


> I think most dual purpose dogs will only do picking up as this doesn't usually entail the constant work in cover that is the main work of a spaniel either in the beating line or as a rough shooters dog


Ah, yeah I wonderd how it would work.


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## rictic (Mar 10, 2009)

i think the working dogs must be truer to the breed than the show type dogs. as they are the original purpose of the dog.

sayinng that tho, how do they work out a breed standard of a gundog if it is a working dog, how can the show standard be so far from the working lines?

surely the perfect (insert any dog) would be the one most ideally suited for its 'job' not the hairdressers mazda 5 of the dog world.

does that make sense lol, i know what i mean.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

rictic said:


> i think the working dogs must be truer to the breed than the show type dogs. as they are the original purpose of the dog.
> 
> sayinng that tho, how do they work out a breed standard of a gundog if it is a working dog, how can the show standard be so far from the working lines?
> 
> ...


I think generally the working are truer to the original breed but sometimes even they are bred a bit from the original. I don't think there's a set standerd for a working breed? i'm not a 100% sure though.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

afaik there arent really standards for working dogs as the main concern isnt looks - two totally different looking labs that both perform well can breed and produce a puppy that again looks different but still does the job which is what important in a working dog... 

Buster is from working lines and looks totally different to a show lakeland - taller, leaner and shorter haired


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

my GSP is Barleyarch lines they produce pointers who are very much dual purpose, her Dad won 12 CC's & was a FT champion, i'm not sure if this is same with other GSP kennels but it would be nice to think they could all still do the job for which they were bred (though personally i prefer to see them retrieving dummies!)


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Well!!! I've seen this one debated a few times, and to nick a phrase from one of the gundog type people I know, actually I've heard it a few times, 'Life's too short to shoot with an ugly dog' - that said, there do seem to be extremes on both sides, from working labs that lack the double coat, and don't have enough substance to be able to retrieve something like a goose, to show dogs that have such a short muzzle they would surely struggle to retrieve a game bird of any decent size, and with such short legs they couldn't jump over a blade of grass. I have always thought though (before I ever got dogs), that a dog should be able to do the job it was bred for, as well as having the correct conformation, and temperament.

I'm sticking a pic of Tau in here, 1) because she's just gorgeous  and 2) because she's got a lot of show on the sire's side, and on the dam's side (albeit further back). Any working is way back in the fifth or sixth generation, for her:










I have been told that to show her, I'd have to put 'a few' lbs on her, as well as train her to do all the 'stand' malarky and work out where on earth you're supposed to run your dog round?! I've heard other stories of show dogs, that dabble in working type events, that then have to have weight put back on them to go in the show ring. To me, the point of showing any animal, would be to show it at its optimum fitness?

So for me, it has to be good looking dogs that are capable of doing what they were bred to, regardless of their breeding.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> my GSP is Barleyarch lines they produce pointers who are very much dual purpose, her Dad won 12 CC's & was a FT champion, i'm not sure if this is same with other GSP kennels but it would be nice to think they could all still do the job for which they were bred (though personally i prefer to see them retrieving dummies!)


I do think the GSP's have not moved as far from their roots as the retriever and spaniel breeds


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Well!!! I've seen this one debated a few times, and to nick a phrase from one of the gundog type people I know, actually I've heard it a few times, 'Life's too short to shoot with an ugly dog' - that said, there do seem to be extremes on both sides, from working labs that lack the double coat, and don't have enough substance to be able to retrieve something like a goose, to show dogs that have such a short muzzle they would surely struggle to retrieve a game bird of any decent size, and with such short legs they couldn't jump over a blade of grass. I have always thought though (before I ever got dogs), that a dog should be able to do the job it was bred for, as well as having the correct conformation, and temperament.
> 
> I'm sticking a pic of Tau in here, 1) because she's just gorgeous  and 2) because she's got a lot of show on the sire's side, and on the dam's side (albeit further back). Any working is way back in the fifth or sixth generation, for her:
> 
> ...


I can see why you are so proud of Tau, she is absolutely stunning.
I don't think you would get very far showing however as the show dogs do seem to have much heavier heads


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Well!!! I've seen this one debated a few times, and to nick a phrase from one of the gundog type people I know, actually I've heard it a few times, 'Life's too short to shoot with an ugly dog' - that said, there do seem to be extremes on both sides, from working labs that lack the double coat, and don't have enough substance to be able to retrieve something like a goose, to show dogs that have such a short muzzle they would surely struggle to retrieve a game bird of any decent size, and with such short legs they couldn't jump over a blade of grass. I have always thought though (before I ever got dogs), that a dog should be able to do the job it was bred for, as well as having the correct conformation, and temperament.
> 
> I'm sticking a pic of Tau in here, 1) because she's just gorgeous  and 2) because she's got a lot of show on the sire's side, and on the dam's side (albeit further back). Any working is way back in the fifth or sixth generation, for her:
> 
> ...


Well worth showing off. She is beautiful 

I agree. Oscar is very much a show cocker but i do think he would be capable of doing the job. I love watching him "work" a ditch its poetry and he is only 4 months. The only thing with him will be his ears will be too long for my liking.

Gratuitous Picture of Ozzie









His ears are twice that size already


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

rainy said:


> Well worth showing off. She is beautiful
> 
> I agree. Oscar is very much a show cocker but i do think he would be capable of doing the job. I love watching him "work" a ditch its poetry and he is only 4 months. The only thing with him will be his ears will be too long for my liking.
> 
> ...


His ears are not as big as some I have seen


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

rona said:


> His ears are not as big as some I have seen


What like these (his Mum)


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

rainy said:


> What like these (his Mum)
> 
> View attachment 18781


Well they are quite big, but seen a few bigger, or maybe it's more coat


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

rona said:


> Well they are quite big, but seen a few bigger, or maybe it's more coat


Oscar is a bit larger than the average Cocker spaniel.

I think they can be All fur Coat and no knickers sometimes, if you get what i mean. I like them a bit wooly though. I chose Oscar because he was more curly than his brother, that and the fact he licked my nose.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Agree entirely Rona with the comment about showing Tau  but as I said to someone I occasionally chat with who does show, with some success, if I ever did it, I'm afraid I'd be a non-conformist, I'd be showing what I thought was a healthy, fit labrador with proven ability, that I think conforms to the breed standard, not what's fashionable and likely to be in with the judges. I know I'd probably be placed last, but I'm a gal with some ideals!!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Gorgus dogs guys, thanks for the posts and Tau is stunning, and i'm not usually a fan of labs (i'm a spaniel and husky type person) but she is a real gorgeous dog.










This is Barney, he's a direct Show x Working and has come out quite unusual but handsome looking.


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