# Why is my collie puppy so mad at me?



## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

I picked up our red merle puppy from what I was led to believe was a family but turned out to be a breeder 3 weeks ago. I met the mum and dad dogs they were lovely. Tess, our dog was lovely at first, a bit chewey but heh! she's a puppy-she had really bad worms and this led to a tummy bug shehas recovered now-however with her recovery her non-play biting has increased(there's a difference in her stance-hackles up growling barking and snarling) I was gardening today she was wandering around she suddenly lurched at my face and bit it. 
We have faithfully persued the 'turn away and stay calm' approach but her biting is getting worse and more frequent. I am very distressed about this.
A collie rescue service suggested lowering her protein levels (she was on a 29% puppy food) no difference-she's actually worse.
What I don't like is the sudden and unpredictiable attacks-She is 12 weeks yet not fully vaccinated as her bug delayed this.

We are not inexperienced collie owners-my last red lived for 18 years she was a rescue dog at 9 months-very nervous and un-socalised.This dog by comparison is very self assured.
Help please-we really are in need of help.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Tess4dog said:


> I picked up our red merle puppy from what I was led to believe was a family but turned out to be a breeder 3 weeks ago. I met the mum and dad dogs they were lovely. Tess, our dog was lovely at first, a bit chewey but heh! she's a puppy-she had really bad worms and this led to a tummy bug shehas recovered now-however with her recovery her non-play biting has increased(there's a difference in her stance-hackles up growling barking and snarling) I was gardening today she was wandering around she suddenly lurched at my face and bit it.
> We have faithfully persued the 'turn away and stay calm' approach but her biting is getting worse and more frequent. I am very distressed about this.
> A collie rescue service suggested lowering her protein levels (she was on a 29% puppy food) no difference-she's actually worse.
> What I don't like is the sudden and unpredictiable attacks-She is 12 weeks yet not fully vaccinated as her bug delayed this.
> ...


Don't panic!

A 12 week old puppy is not "attacking" you.

Google an article called "The Bite Stops Here". Read and inwardly digest.

Teach your puppy what she CAN bite - get her into tuggy toys.

You will get through this


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Hi, I think alot of puppies bite, I certainly remember mine biting at my face suddenly!

There are loads of threads in this section on biting, have a search and see if any of them help too 

xx


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I don't know what to suggest but didn't want to read and run. I hope you can sort something out...if she really is biting in a non playful way and going for faces etc, it may be worth getting the opinion of a behaviourist or some advice from someone who can watch the whole situation, but maybe she just thinks its an OK way to play still!

Some puppies are over the top in biting, my puppy was, but he did grow out of it. He was just very firm with his biting and we have had dominance issues where he has bitten me to make me back off, but its not been a 'i'm going to hurt you' its been a 'i know if I show you my teeth you go away' kind of thing. Never growled or anything, hence why a behaviourist I had out said its not aggressiveness, he's trying to get the upper hand because he knows showing his teeth/putting his mouth around arms makes people go away. Its the equivalent of a puppy knowing that crying makes people come, he had no intention to hurt anyone.

I hope you can find a solution soon, be consistent and hopefully you can see some results soon!


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

sounds like shes got a lot of energy and a happy puppy, there are many ways to train a pup to stop nipping id go with what the others have suggested. you might also want to try and do more fun training with her as the mental exercise will tire her out. or puzzle games. you can hide treats in upturned cups or under a blanket, stuff a kong etc. keeps her busy and distracts her from wanting to nip.


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

Thank you all for your helpful comments-I have indeed read and adopted 'The biting stops here' article-I'm still trying-I've also hidden treats inside socks/puppy toys stc. 
But take for example her behavior just now we went into the garden together-she attatched herself to my leg-I ignore-after blood she moves off-I bend down to pick some veg. all the time talking to her in a calm voice she latches onto my arm. Every gesture she offers is a bite. It becomes more and more frenzied until she actually stalks me (that's natural I know).
Another bit of advice I was given was to give her a marrow bone to chew-which she is currently doing-hence I can have a few minutes to write this!
Anybody know where I can get hold of behaviour therapist (n. Yorks)
Thanks


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

I can sympathise here - my 12 week beagle puppy is dreadful - he will start growling and latch on to a piece of skin. we have persistently tried the ignoring and when he gets worse we have sperated off a section in the house to place him for time out. He hates going there but comes back in after barking, whining and howling has a drink and licks us gently - then picks up a toy and plays. The time out has worked brilliantly - he's a pack animal and hates being left. We do 3 minutes as he can remember what he has done. When we put him in T/O we sya NO BITE and he is getting used to the word No when he bites now we can say NO and give him his toy. he has improved but we are still struggling - maybe some basic dominance training would help? feeding last, getting puppy to wait at door to let you walk in.

Good luck I know its hard


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## Bobbie (May 3, 2008)

It can be the protein levels what are you feeding her? If you try a lower level you will have to wait a while for the hyper behaviour to improve.


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## JennieJet (Jun 19, 2009)

Hi....I am not experienced in this but my 14 week lab puppy does bite but then she can do this really aggressive biting ....the tip I picked up after watching the dog whisperer and it seems to have worked ( fingers crossed )...as soon as she bites too much we say no firmly and then we hold her down on the floor around her scruff neck area just as another dog would do in the wild and we hold her there until she submits and relaxes. ( making sure that is she puts her paws on your arms you remove them ) and that way you are the pack leader..Its not done too hurt her or anything but just puts her in her place.. Once she has relaxed we let go and she often just stays there and then wants her tummy tickled ......maybe worth a try


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

Good pratical advice-jusst what I need and also to know that it's not just me.
We have just had a good play-I held her down when the biting became too much.
We have a crate and we put her in there if becomes too aggressive but of course she know we want to pick her up and won't come any where near us.

I have just carried her out in my arms to meet some doggy friends in our village (they are fully vaccinated as yet she is not) she reacted well-I think she's desperate to get out and about. 

I keep hoping this OTT biting will calm down I'm contacting somebody about puppy classes.

I was feeding her Hounda puppy(29% protein) at the moment it's chicken and rice fresh! until her new food (21% protein) arrives from CSJK9ltd Wiccaways recommended them. She seems to get tummy upsets on the Hounda.

We want a compaionion to share our really active life (running, cycling, walking) but she must be controllable to enjoy this lifestyle.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I wont ever hold my dog down. It is also the way in which other dogs try to kill one another, by the throat, and that is how my dog perceived it when an experienced behaviourist attempted to do this to him for over 30 minutes.

The same behaviourist also told me never to put him in timeout, it doesn't work as puppies live in the moment. Well I did use timeout and it worked wonders! If he bit, he got told 'No bitey', if he did it again, he got timeout for 10 mins. He hated being on his own, so we used what he didn't like, just like with kids you threaten to take away what they like the most! He did cotton on to timeouts very quickly, if he came out and bit again, he went in for 20 minutes, and he never had to be in longer than that, because he took the hint. There was no need to get him to come near me to put him into the kitchen, he was latched on my leg/arm already ususally!

If your pup really isn't backing off with the biting, I would try timeouts, just for say 5-10mins and see how she gets on, she is still small enough to pick up and put elsewhere, even if she bites at your arms, just put her in her timeout zone. Roo's timeout was the kitchen, which was like his crate area, and he has no negative issues with it as nothing bad has happened there. Its his cool off/calm down/sleepy time zone.

Nothing personal about the holding down thing by the way, I just don't agree with it from seeing how my boy reacted!

Re food, with my dog a golden, it is NOT recommended to give less than 25% protein until they are six months old, and even now my boy is on 21%. I don't know how collies are regarded size wise but being a large breed, this is how it goes for goldens.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

Just to say I am at home working all day today and have NVQs to desperately mark before 5pm so I am getting quite annoyed with Buster's behaviour he has spent 3 x 5 minutes in timeout and is now sleeping on my leg and is a lot calmer. It really works wonders.

I have heard about holding the dog down but I dont think I could personally do it - in fact I think it would make them more agressive? especially if its only puppy 'play' biting.


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

Just had a bad time out in the garden with tess. She kept stealing the washing she was having-fun game that ws ok then she began to dig up flower beds-a firm 'NO' sent her potty she lurched up biting through my trouser and making my leg bleed. I simply didn't shout or get mad but silently picked her up and put her in isolation where she has gone to sleep.
I have today contacted a behaviour therapist who is coming to see our family tonight-she thinks she is showing 'Dominant Dog' syndrome and needs to put firmly in her place.
I'll keep all our new doggy buddies posted on our progress. At the moment it's gotten to a 'It's the dog or me' scenario in our household.

Jane Tess's Mum:


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

I think it sounds a lot like dominant behaviour. To be quite honest I have no experience with puppies or dogs Buster is our first and when I have had trouble I have desperately gone out and bought books - i have found that Busters behaviour is very alpha male so a quick read on Google has helped with this. I really think some basic dominance training will help feed your pup after you eat, make pup wait at doors and don't let pup have access to all areas.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

collies have a strong chase, nip and hearding instinct. you need to teach her what behaviours are allowed. try rewarding every behaviour that you like her doing, playing by herself, sitting queitly etc. progress will start slowly because she sounds like a lively pup but once she gets that she gets rewarded for some behaviours and ignored for others she will start to behave more appropriatly. try throwing balls and playing tug more to wear her out. will teach her what she can chase and bite and what she cant.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

JennieJet said:


> Hi....I am not experienced in this but my 14 week lab puppy does bite but then she can do this really aggressive biting ....the tip I picked up after watching the dog whisperer and it seems to have worked ( fingers crossed )...as soon as she bites too much we say no firmly and then we hold her down on the floor around her scruff neck area just as another dog would do in the wild and we hold her there until she submits and relaxes. ( making sure that is she puts her paws on your arms you remove them ) and that way you are the pack leader..Its not done too hurt her or anything but just puts her in her place.. Once she has relaxed we let go and she often just stays there and then wants her tummy tickled ......maybe worth a try


Dogs/wolves in the wild do NOT hold other dogs down. That theory was based on flawed research. Pinning a dog/puppy down is a terrible idea. If it works, then your dog didn't need it in the first place (there are plenty of better ways to handle which don't involve such aggressive methods) and worst case scenario you can make your dog overly fearful or even aggressive.

I can't believe the number of people who are attributing what is normal puppy behaviour (this is a PUPPY we are talking about, let's remember) to "dominance".


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

Colliepoodle said:


> Dogs/wolves in the wild do NOT hold other dogs down. That theory was based on flawed research. Pinning a dog/puppy down is a terrible idea. If it works, then your dog didn't need it in the first place (there are plenty of better ways to handle which don't involve such aggressive methods) and worst case scenario you can make your dog overly fearful or even aggressive.
> 
> *I can't believe the number of people who are attributing what is normal puppy behaviour (this is a PUPPY we are talking about, let's remember) to "dominance*".


agree. pinning a puppy down will just cause depression and fear. iv seen it before and i think its the most upsetting thing in the world to see a dog with no life in its eyes, just an empty shell.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Tess4dog said:


> I have today contacted a behaviour therapist who is coming to see our family tonight-she thinks she is showing 'Dominant Dog' syndrome and needs to put firmly in her place.


Id seek advice elsewhere if i were you. This is NORMAL puppy behaviour, and isnt driven by dominance in the slighest.

A dog doesnt need to be "put in its place" when its exhibiting perfectly normal and puppyish behaviour. It just needs to learn boundaries and what is and isnt acceptable.

It can take weeks on end before they catch on, but they will aslong as EVERYONE in the household is consistent with the rules. Theres no need to resort to being physical, negative, or violent towards a dog, not unless its a last resort, and even then its a dubious course of action.


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## cassie01 (Jul 11, 2008)

where abouts do you live??

you could look for a behaviourist here. make sure you ask them about their methods first. try to get someone who is reward based only.

Local Dog Trainers - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> Id seek advice elsewhere if i were you. This is NORMAL puppy behaviour, and isnt driven by dominance in the slighest.
> 
> A dog doesnt need to be "put in its place" when its exhibiting perfectly normal and puppyish behaviour. It just needs to learn boundaries and what is and isnt acceptable.
> 
> It can take weeks on end before they catch on, but they will aslong as EVERYONE in the household is consistent with the rules. Theres no need to resort to being physical, negative, or violent towards a dog, not unless its a last resort, and even then its a dubious course of action.


I agree with this post - with knobs on.

I'd body-swerve this "behaviourist" if I were you. It isn't Barkbusters by any chance is it?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

I tell you what, I had issues with Roo, and people told me it was dominance etc when he was about 4 months old. Behaviourist did nothing for us, and there have actually been people who have told me Rupert isn't a real golden because he is so dominant, and golden's don't act like that, so he therefore isn't a true golden and is inbred or a cross.

In passing conversation I'll say it as dominance sometimes which I shouldn't, but he isn't dominant, he's just one of those dogs that is really trying. Dogs come in several kinds, I know some girl goldens who are not interested in fighting, you take something away/tell them no and they accept it, Rupert just pushes the boundaries more! He is a very intelligent dog and just manipulates situations so that they suit him! He's not dominant, he's just a pain in the bum sometimes


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

> He is a very intelligent dog and just manipulates situations so that they suit him! He's not dominant, he's just a pain in the bum sometimes


Precisely. Dogs do what works. What they do MAY come across as dominant but it is far more likely that they're doing it because they get something out of it. Simple as that.


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

Amazing-had a family 1:1 with a trainer last night-so much makes sense now. What we have is a 'Top dog' syndrome. It's me at the bottom. We have already had amazing success with body stance and voice control. Also the 5 minute 'ignore' on initial greeting-let her know we are in control.
Also Tess 'performed' for the trainer-she put her in her place by the method described above; holding her down until she submits-or if she still won't picking her up and face to face a very firm 'NO'-she also had to pick her up and growl at her -she's that defiant.
It's great to show that she has amazing intelligence not so good for training/behaviour. Lots of hard work for me. Yet the trainer picked up it's me she dosn't like-that's life. I've got to really show Tess who's boss.
Also she gets diarrohrea as soon as she is fed the little bonio's as training titbits-she's still on chicken and rice-any wheat free suggestions?
Jane::wink5:


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

Missed page two replies so now am panacking a bit-I must admit she really fights against me. I live in North Yorkshire. Struggling to find a suitable food for Tess. 
I rather like to use my tone of voice rather than physical stuff-and should we put her in isolation?


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

Tess4dog said:


> Missed page two replies so now am panacking a bit-I must admit she really fights against me. I live in North Yorkshire. Struggling to find a suitable food for Tess.
> I rather like to use my tone of voice rather than physical stuff-and should we put her in isolation?


Just had conversation with vets about her diarrohrea they were very alarmed that we needed a trainer at 12 weeks and that she is biting very badly (it's not play it's with the whites of her eyes and teeth barred) and they siad either a) take her back to the breeder or b)put her to sleep- I'm so confused-mixed feeling guilt/failure we had had a collie for 18 years as a compaion and friend-I don't want an ememy. I'm just sitting wondering what to think and do.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Tess4dog said:


> Amazing-had a family 1:1 with a trainer last night-so much makes sense now. What we have is a 'Top dog' syndrome. It's me at the bottom. We have already had amazing success with body stance and voice control. Also the 5 minute 'ignore' on initial greeting-let her know we are in control.
> Also Tess 'performed' for the trainer-she put her in her place by the method described above; holding her down until she submits-or if she still won't picking her up and face to face a very firm 'NO'-she also had to pick her up and growl at her -she's that defiant.
> It's great to show that she has amazing intelligence not so good for training/behaviour. Lots of hard work for me. Yet the trainer picked up it's me she dosn't like-that's life. I've got to really show Tess who's boss.
> Also she gets diarrohrea as soon as she is fed the little bonio's as training titbits-she's still on chicken and rice-any wheat free suggestions?
> Jane::wink5:


If a trainer did that to my dog, id be showing them the door.

Also, dont speak to vets about behavioural advice, they normally havent a clue. Oscar was ten times worse than your puppy, but not once would did i use the methods you did. I now have a sweet and loving dog, who hasnt been ruled by fear and violence.


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> If a trainer did that to my dog, id be showing them the door.
> 
> Also, dont speak to vets about behavioural advice, they normally havent a clue. Oscar was ten times worse than your puppy, but not once would did i use the methods you did. I now have a sweet and loving dog, who hasnt been ruled by fear and violence.


ABSOLUTELY!!

Ditch the trainer. And ignore a vet who suggests putting a TWELVE WEEK OLD PUPPY to sleep!! FFS!!

Vets are NOT behaviourists and most of them know as much about training and behaviour as they know about nutrition (hence why they usually try to flog you Hill's Science stuff). Come to think of it, a lot of so-called "trainers" and "behaviourists" aren't much cop either. Try to get hold of an APDT trainer in your area and FGS do NOT keep pinning the puppy down or shouting in its face or you really WILL cause proper aggression!


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

Tess4dog said:


> Amazing-had a family 1:1 with a trainer last night-so much makes sense now. What we have is a 'Top dog' syndrome. It's me at the bottom. We have already had amazing success with body stance and voice control. Also the 5 minute 'ignore' on initial greeting-let her know we are in control.
> Also Tess 'performed' for the trainer-she put her in her place by the method described above; holding her down until she submits-or if she still won't picking her up and face to face a very firm 'NO'-she also had to pick her up and growl at her -she's that defiant.
> It's great to show that she has amazing intelligence not so good for training/behaviour. Lots of hard work for me. Yet the trainer picked up it's me she dosn't like-that's life. I've got to really show Tess who's boss.
> Also she gets diarrohrea as soon as she is fed the little bonio's as training titbits-she's still on chicken and rice-any wheat free suggestions?
> Jane::wink5:


Unbelievable, I'm gobsmacked.
Also at your vet
This is a puppy, please read the hundreds of other threads on here that say exactly the same as you, and realise that this is normal and a passing phase


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

And "top dog syndrome"?? With a PUPPY??? :cursing:

I'm sorry I've never heard such a pile of garbage in my life.

Where did you find the behaviourist?


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

OK, I'm going to be frank here, I could have sworn when Roo was younger that he was dominant/had behavioural issues because he was THAT difficult. So many people had puppies who just were permanantly chilled out and calm. As he has grown older and I have grown more experienced, I have realised he is just a different type of dog. He is just one of the mischievous b*ggers!

Never thought I would redo this, but this is a video I took of Roo when he was 6 months old. I posted it on a forum and every single person said it is NOT dominance. To an outsider though, he can look like a dominant/maybe even slightly agressive dog from this:

YouTube - Roo

I have learnt a lot since this, and if you notice, he isn't growling at me, at this point he simply learned that showing his teeth at me, meant I backed off or was extra careful of him. The reason I was being so gentle is because a few people thought he was frightened in the beginning. The reason he did this was because he had to go in the kitchen, and he didn't want to! He was like 'no Mum I want to stay here so go away and leave me alone'. You can see him smiling, he thought it was a great game!!

Its not identical to your circumstances, but it is similar and I had your exact issues when he was younger. I think when some people say dominance, they use the term incorrectly, not knowing exactly what that term entails. To me, Roo tries to manipulate a situation so he gets what he wants, but its not dominance, its being a cheeky git! Its because he is very intelligent and just who he is, but I love him to pieces. As time went on he learnt he couldn't get away with things, its your job to teach them not to.

**Note to Pet Forumers, don't hate me I have learnt much since that video! Roo is not frightened he is a very happy healthy doggy, promise!**


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> OK, I'm going to be frank here, I could have sworn when Roo was younger that he was dominant/had behavioural issues because he was THAT difficult. So many people had puppies who just were permanantly chilled out and calm. As he has grown older and I have grown more experienced, I have realised he is just a different type of dog. He is just one of the mischievous b*ggers!
> 
> Never thought I would redo this, but this is a video I took of Roo when he was 6 months old. I posted it on a forum and every single person said it is NOT dominance. To an outsider though, he can look like a dominant/maybe even slightly agressive dog from this:
> 
> ...


Oh thanks guys I'm feeling so sad about all this-I have contacted a trainer from the lists provided but am glad to say that it's been a nice day today-I don't like pushing her down-can't anyway and she knows it's coming and runs away-that completly defeats the object surely.

I've gone for happy talk-treats when good-I feel alot better about that-but still worried about her tummy-getting diarrohera possibly from treats.
Jane


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

Tess4dog said:


> Oh thanks guys I'm feeling so sad about all this-I have contacted a trainer from the lists provided but am glad to say that it's been a nice day today-I don't like pushing her down-can't anyway and she knows it's coming and runs away-that completly defeats the object surely.
> 
> I've gone for happy talk-treats when good-I feel alot better about that-but still worried about her tummy-getting diarrohera possibly from treats.
> Jane


Don't use treats then, use some of her food as treats


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> OK, I'm going to be frank here, I could have sworn when Roo was younger that he was dominant/had behavioural issues because he was THAT difficult. So many people had puppies who just were permanantly chilled out and calm. As he has grown older and I have grown more experienced, I have realised he is just a different type of dog. He is just one of the mischievous b*ggers!
> 
> Never thought I would redo this, but this is a video I took of Roo when he was 6 months old. I posted it on a forum and every single person said it is NOT dominance. To an outsider though, he can look like a dominant/maybe even slightly agressive dog from this:
> 
> ...


My boy looks more vicious than that when we are playing


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

rona said:


> My boy looks more vicious than that when we are playing


LOL so does Rupert now sometimes :blush2:

I just went back onto this old forum and reread a couple older threads, and there was a couple times Roo really bit me hard. One time was because I was taking the cat biscuits off him. I had no idea what to do, because the b*gger had bitten hard enough to do everything except draw blood! The thing is, he still hadn't learnt biting = a no no, because my brothers would wrestle with him and allow him to bite at them thinking it was funny :cursing: He has never been protective of his food, not ever, it was purely a 'I want that give it here!' attitude, like a 5 year old having a temper tantrum.

He wouldn't ever dream of doing that to anyone now, but saying that, he went to nip the vet when he was getting his anal glands cleaned yesterday :001_tt2:


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

Tinsley said:


> LOL so does Rupert now sometimes :blush2:
> 
> I just went back onto this old forum and reread a couple older threads, and there was a couple times Roo really bit me hard. One time was because I was taking the cat biscuits off him. I had no idea what to do, because the b*gger had bitten hard enough to do everything except draw blood! The thing is, he still hadn't learnt biting = a no no, because my brothers would wrestle with him and allow him to bite at them thinking it was funny :cursing: He has never been protective of his food, not ever, it was purely a 'I want that give it here!' attitude, like a 5 year old having a temper tantrum.
> 
> He wouldn't ever dream of doing that to anyone now, but saying that, he went to nip the vet when he was getting his anal glands cleaned yesterday :001_tt2:


I think he can be forgiven that


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Very interesting video clip, Tinsley.

I can see how some people WOULD interpret that as aggression/dominance/biting or whatever, but what I see there is a dog who desperately DOESN'T want to bite, but who is very uncomfortable with a hand coming from above, especially when he's in a place with nowhere to go.

Well done for persevering


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> Very interesting video clip, Tinsley.
> 
> I can see how some people WOULD interpret that as aggression/dominance/biting or whatever, but what I see there is a dog who desperately DOESN'T want to bite, but who is very uncomfortable with a hand coming from above, especially when he's in a place with nowhere to go.
> 
> Well done for persevering


We determined that from that position Roo was very confused, partly playful in what he was doing, but uncertain on what to do. You can see from rolling onto his back like he was that he wasn't dominant even then. He knew hand coming towards him = go on in the kitchen, but he wasn't sure how to act or interpret how I was responding to him.

Some people think any kind of biting isn't tolerable and even though he's partly playful/confused in that clip, some people think that even showing teeth is dominance/aggression!


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## Bryn's Mum (Jun 23, 2009)

Hi Jane, I'm mum to 5 collies aged 8 months to 13 years, please don't worry this sounds like proper collie puppy stuff, don't forget they nip the sheep are full of adventure and bounce.
They need lots of love, cuddles playing with etc and guidance in how to behave.
when she comes up to bite put a toy in her mouth and play, have fun she's only a baby. If you live close i'd meet up with you, i am in Stourbridge West Mids.


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

Bryn's Mum said:


> Hi Jane, I'm mum to 5 collies aged 8 months to 13 years, please don't worry this sounds like proper collie puppy stuff, don't forget they nip the sheep are full of adventure and bounce.
> They need lots of love, cuddles playing with etc and guidance in how to behave.
> when she comes up to bite put a toy in her mouth and play, have fun she's only a baby. If you live close i'd meet up with you, i am in Stourbridge West Mids.


I feel so much more confident with myself now-I feel today in a play game although Tess did bit my hand she really wanted to bite a toy-in fact she took a nip at my ankle but I realised her toy was right next door. I moved it, she went off with the toy-that felt like a good moment. 
Bit bitey today bad tummy again-no biscuit trainers-I'm going to stick with chicken.
How do you get them to stop barking and biting at brooms etc? I know she's a puppy but will it lead to a trend later? Brushing the yard is very lively.
Happy day and if you fancy a lovely walk on the N york Moors it's not too far!

Roos video certainly rang some bells-I was coaxing her and she suddenly snapped at my hand-is that her saying 'ok stop'? should I tell her off for that?
Jane


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## Bryn's Mum (Jun 23, 2009)

Lots of collies love brooms, hoovers mops, think rounding up the sheep it's great fun(for them). I have to shut my 8 month old collie in another room when i mop the floors, then my son or hubby lets her out just before i finish, they think thats funny, so not helpful.


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

Bryn's Mum said:


> Lots of collies love brooms, hoovers mops, think rounding up the sheep it's great fun(for them). I have to shut my 8 month old collie in another room when i mop the floors, then my son or hubby lets her out just before i finish, they think thats funny, so not helpful.


Things are going so much better now I can see her behaviour is normal (for a collie that is!) As I am more confident she reacts better to my sterner 'No!' I really don't like the physical stuff-the 5 min time out is much better! 
We had a great game in the garden this morning she did run at me a few times to grab my ankles/elbow etc. BUT she was really not so determined -she quickly became distracted by her toys and had a much better toy play session.
She looks like she has a wheat allergy-so it was yet another trip to the vets-she was passing blood. We had to starve until her tummy was settled and it's back to chicken and rice!
I have got a new food which is salmon based but will wait until she's setteld before gradually switching.
I hate the smell of chicken! We had 18 years of it with our old dog!!Must be thing about red collies!
I feel really happy about the way things are going now. Yes we still have biting and tugging but MUCH less.
Jane Tess' Mum


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Tess4dog said:


> Things are going so much better now I can see her behaviour is normal (for a collie that is!) As I am more confident she reacts better to my sterner 'No!' I really don't like the physical stuff-the 5 min time out is much better!
> We had a great game in the garden this morning she did run at me a few times to grab my ankles/elbow etc. BUT she was really not so determined -she quickly became distracted by her toys and had a much better toy play session.
> She looks like she has a wheat allergy-so it was yet another trip to the vets-she was passing blood. We had to starve until her tummy was settled and it's back to chicken and rice!
> I have got a new food which is salmon based but will wait until she's setteld before gradually switching.
> ...


Brilliant news! Well done!

The good thing about having a pup who is so into biting and tugging is that you will be able to teach her to tug (and stop) on request, and you then have a) An excellent way of interacting with your dog and having fun b) A brilliant way of burning off energy and c) A dog who is easily motivated by games and therefore much easier to train 

I've had to really WORK at getting my dog toy-obsessed - if she'd been as keen as your dog to start with I'd have been thrilled


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2009)

Great news, and you are obviously a lot happier 
Keep up the good work


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

A bit nutty and snappy after lunch-I'm really thinking she is confused over "do I bit her?/what am I doing" hence the frantic barking and dashing in for a nip then flying off. I stayed calm -when she let me approach her-gently picked her up, no eye contact- and did TO. She promptly went to sleep.
Been friendly now -a few exploratory bites to see if I'm there- none of the former aggression, I really think she is confused and always a bit hyper after she's eaten. If I stand still and calm she just wanders off to play with something.
I like being calmer with her-shouting and pushing simply makes her worse- calm and firm. Great news about the training-I've aldready had success with sit. Just working on down now!
Love having all your support.
Jane


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## Colliepoodle (Oct 20, 2008)

Tess4dog said:


> A bit nutty and snappy after lunch-I'm really thinking she is confused over "do I bit her?/what am I doing" hence the frantic barking and dashing in for a nip then flying off. I stayed calm -when she let me approach her-gently picked her up, no eye contact- and did TO. She promptly went to sleep.
> Been friendly now -a few exploratory bites to see if I'm there- none of the former aggression, I really think she is confused and always a bit hyper after she's eaten. If I stand still and calm she just wanders off to play with something.
> I like being calmer with her-shouting and pushing simply makes her worse- calm and firm. Great news about the training-I've aldready had success with sit. Just working on down now!
> Love having all your support.
> Jane


Yes, remember like children that any attention is better than none - getting excited and loud yourself will wind her up even more 

What do you feed her? Sorry if you've already said...


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## Tess4dog (Jun 21, 2009)

Colliepoodle said:


> Yes, remember like children that any attention is better than none - getting excited and loud yourself will wind her up even more
> 
> What do you feed her? Sorry if you've already said...


At present because of her tummy upset shes on chicken and rice x 4 a day.
She will be an cwj salmon based gluten free/soya free 21 % protein when we are sure she has recovered. Ther may of course be too much protein in her food today althoght I doubt it.
Today she has been horrendous and I feel back at square 1 now. She's ignored all efforts to play and has basically lurched herself at me and any body else all day. All the usual tricks to calm her (Ignore-no etc ) have not had any effect. She starts barking madly and just seems to go into a frenzy. She really bit me hard on the bum, legs, elbows it drew blood through my clothing. I was so upset I silently picked her up and put her in her cage-but shes done that all day now and as a consequence of her actions has spent much of the day caged-not good. I am again nervous of having her around always thinking whens she going to next bite me. Any attempt at coaxing she just starts to snap and bite.
Is this really normal collie behaviour? sometimes I do doubt it should be so extreme.
Jane


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## Bryn's Mum (Jun 23, 2009)

Have pm'd you


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