# Adopted a “neutered” cat...



## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

TL;DR - she wasn’t neutered and was in fact pregnant upon arrival!

So I rehomed a BSH at the beginning of February - shes approx 20 months. She was kept well - received all associates paperwork, imms up to date, regularly worked/de-flead etc. I was told she was neutered and had no reason to suspect not... until the past week I noticed she became distinctly ‘rotund’, increased appetite and a bit more lazy... all piqued my suspicion.

I took her to the vets on 04/03 - vet couldn’t quite tell if pregnant by palpating, and wasn’t prepared to open her up for a spay (and the potential rest) if it turns out she was neutered.. understandable as would be unnecessary surgery!!

I knew know blockage etc, as she’s an indoor only cat and her litter tray is cleaned multiple times per day, so she’s eating, peeing and pooping. 

We decided on an ultrasound. LO and behold, at least 3 kittens!!! I’m FURIOUS!!!!!! Vet said well developed as skeletons present, and said 1-2 weeks to go, doubting she’d get to 3 weeks. 

I’ve set up various boxes, I’ve bought in a temp controlled heat pad, syringes/nibs and cat formula - just in case needed.. I’d hate to be unprepared and couldn’t bear any more unnecessary suffering. 

I’m so mad, and disappointed. Mostly mad. She’s a right titch this cat... and I’m also terrified somethings goes wrong. Obviously I’ll ensure any kittens are vaccinated, Se-flead/wormed, chipped and - if possible - spayed/neutered before rehoming (and making sure my cat is at the earliest opportunity...

I just wanted to reach out and have some sort of resource in place - this is not ever what I envisaged or wanted. The not knowing accurately how far along she is, is causing me great anxiety!!!!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

As you have all the paperwork, contact the breeder and they should advise you. I assume it was a pet owner you bought her from?

Watch her closely, you'll know when she's close to birthing.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

spotty cats said:


> As you have all the paperwork, contact the breeder and they should advise you. I assume it was a pet owner you bought her from?
> 
> Watch her closely, you'll know when she's close to birthing.


Yes, I have the breeders details and have informed of the situation. Equal horror that girl was not neutered. I just don't understand ‍♀ If previous owner had been honest, I would have had her booked straight in to have it done - they literally just had to say!!!!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

If the breeder had neutered before placement could have all been avoided. I'm glad none of our kittens can end up in this situation. 

At least she's landed with someone who will treat her well.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

spotty cats said:


> If the breeder had neutered before placement could have all been avoided. I'm glad none of our kittens can end up in this situation.
> 
> At least she's landed with someone who will treat her well.


Thank you - she will be looked after to the absolute best of my abilility and I will not rehome the kittens under any circumstances until they have been properly cared for, including spaying/neutering at personal cost - even if my vet wont do until later - though I have already sourced vets happy to early neuter/spay via cats protection.

I hate that it's just a waiting game - luckily, we live in a large house, so we are easily able to isolate her now into the second living room and utility - so lots of space. I have set up multiple potential nests and I am working on blocking access to awkward spots (such as behind or down the side of appliances) and I'm observing her daily. I;ve switched her to kitten foods, and she is free fed - with plenty of fresh water and her litter is scooped daily and changed every 48 hours.

I don't suppose I can really do much else apart from play the waiting game. I believe I saw movement last night as she slept in her favourite spot on the sofa once the children had gone to bed. I guess we've got anywhere from 1-3 weeks... I hate not knowing though. I feel I;ve prepared to the best of my ability.

I have hot washed lots of old cotton tshirts for bedding, and I have lots of old flannette sheets from my 3.5 year old. I have ordered some puppy training pads too.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Don't use flannelette sheets to line the kitten box, little claws can get caught, but they good for wiping kittens


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I always used flannelette sheet under the vetbed because they are absorbent and my kittens never had a problem. They are very smooth unlike towels which can catch claws.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Rufus15 said:


> Don't use flannelette sheets to line the kitten box, little claws can get caught, but they good for wiping kittens


Might need them for toilet roll For my 6 person family at this stage!!! Bloody covid19!! Brought out all the greedy, selfish gits! Haha


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I've never had an issue using flanellette and claws getting stuck, used it many times over the years. 

Towels can be put inside a pillow case to make them useable.

Waiting is the worst even when you have a date


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Good idea putting towels in a pillowcase. I have lots of fleece so use that


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I would recommend using human incontinence pads rather than puppy training ones for lining the kitten box. The latter have crystals in them that give off a smell to encourage pups to wee. You don't want to actually encourage them to use them, just to have them there to mop up any accidents. Are you sleeping with her overnight? Many cats will choose to birth in the wee hours, and I'm thinking she may well do so given that you have kids and she's new to your home. They can delay birthing until they feel safe, and for her, that will mean dark and quiet. If you are seeing movement, then she is likely at least 7 weeks rpegnant, meaning you have a further 2 to go at most. You will know when birthing is approaching as you will notice that her tummy goes from looking as though she has saddle bags to looking uite neat on top, with everything having dropped low as kittens move down into the birth canal. When you see this, it normally indicates that birthing will happen in the next 48 hours.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Thank you so much for everyone’s replies. I have ordered some new value range pillow cases and some cheap towels, and some fleeces to lay over the top. I’ll make sure I have a few ready made for changes.

Will order some incontinence pads instead!!! Good tip! 

how big should a birthing/welling box be, optimally? We only moved house in November 2019 so have a multitude of flatpacked moving boxes where I could create somewhere suitable in size... 

I won’t be sleeping with her, no. We have another cat (whom I’ve had from being a kitten) and I’ve currently separated them. She will have access to a second living room and utility room - both warm and draft free. I do however, still have my youngest child’s baby monitor, so I could set this up and bring it upstairs at night, so I would wake (or my light sleeping partner would!) if any noise made.. but hopefully, if I can spot the signs that she may be about to, there is a sofa available that I could sleep on so I’m at hand. 

Another concern I have is how would I know IF mum isn’t interested? And what sort of things could I do to encourage her if she does show disinterest? I have read to rub some fluids on brand new kits if needed - but once that’s gone and cleared, then what? What signs may be apparent that she has no interest in them?

I’ve got everything crossed that it’ll be completely smooth and instinctual  Also, assuming all goes fab, when do mum and babies get a once over by a vet? 

Thank you, and I’m so sorry for all of the questions!!


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

I have no experience of this, so have no advice to give. Just wanting to wish you luck, and you're obviously a caring, responsible cat owner, so I know your cat and her kittens will be safe with you. Good luck. x


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

You need to sleep with her, most girls won't make noise during labour as it attracts predators


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Some girls make noise, some don't (all of mine do however). Sleeping with them works best for us.

Some first time girls can take a bit to settle with their kittens, don't jump in too soon weighing, or hand feeding, given time most will bond and settle in.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

How long would be the maximum I should wait before they would critically need a feed? 

Definitely wouldn’t and don’t want to jump in too soon - I DO NOT wanna have to hand rear at all. I’d like to leave as much to nature as possible.

But I ask the question to experienced breeders - at what stage/amount of time would you have to make a call?

Once I know she’s definitively in labour, I’ll be setting the heating pad away - so it’s there if needed.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Don't over think things  our kittens tend to latch on right away, but it's not unusual to take some time to find a nipple, observe and help them latch if needed and they've been crying a while.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

spotty cats said:


> Don't over think things  our kittens tend to latch on right away, but it's not unusual to take some time to find a nipple, observe and help them latch if needed and they've been crying a while.


I am definitely overthinking - honestly, I'm just mortified by the entire situation, and thoroughly stumped why the previous owner lied to me!!!

I'm terrified they come early too, so my children have all been read the riot act and banned from the 2nd living room so it's a guaranteed retreat for her. But since I can't pin point a day or even a week in January (I have asked previous owner; useless!!!), I'm literally relatively blind.

Thankfully, the eldest three are older, and the young one is rarely unsupervised.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I started helping mum out almost from the get go - she had a litter of 7 and a first time mum so really struggled. I started off topping up 3 kittens 3 times a day and had to up it to 5 kittens 4 times a day. Not fully hand rearing but mum needed a hand. I think Maine Coons can be a bit more needy than other breeds, however. Spotty has Ocicats which are a very hardy breed. My understanding of BSH is that it can go either way.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Most cats do fine with litters of 7, I wouldn't panic about it. 
The environment and stress levels also play a part, remaining calm, not fussing.

@gskinner123 is a long term BSH breeder on here who may have some advice.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

MissRhein said:


> how big should a birthing/welling box be, optimally? We only moved house in November 2019 so have a multitude of flatpacked moving boxes where I could create somewhere suitable in size...
> Another concern I have is how would I know IF mum isn't interested? And what sort of things could I do to encourage her if she does show disinterest? I have read to rub some fluids on brand new kits if needed - but once that's gone and cleared, then what? What signs may be apparent that she has no interest in them?
> I've got everything crossed that it'll be completely smooth and instinctual  Also, assuming all goes fab, when do mum and babies get a once over by a vet?
> Thank you, and I'm so sorry for all of the questions!!


The wooden box I used for all but my first two litters is 2' wide x 2' deep with an opening at the front and a lid that can open at the top if more access is needed. A cardboard box might not be square but it should be wide enough for the queen to stretch out. It needs to be closed at the top.

Kittens usually dictate how soon they want to feed but you really must be present at the birth because some girls are not keen on little wet slugs with their placentas dangling so you will need to deal with the cord and rub the kittens dry with a towel. Some queens are the complete reverse and want to be 'hands' on but in my experience they usually start with the cord whereas I was always at the head end clearing the airways as soon as possible. If there is a smaller kitten who is being pushed away from the milk bar by the others, I used to find it best to hold it on one of the higher teats because the stronger ones tend to go for the lower ones which anyway, can be harder for them to suck.

If your girl is the sort who does all that is necessary but then needs to be with you, I found it was better to let them circulate, stretch their legs etc. You can always pick up a kitten if you want the girl to return to them. It will squeak and the girl will come running. The opposite sort of girl will refuse to leave the box except to use the litter tray and then I used to feed them in the box, another reason for having a good sized box.

If she only has three babies, it would be unusual for you to have help with the feeding so try not to worry about something that may not happen. It is very common for vets to mistake the number of kittens when they scan but I don't think they would miss many. I have found they usually over-estimate.

You really do not want to have to take kittens to the vet until they are ready for their first vaccinations unless they are poorly.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Thanks @QOTN, I'll make sure I prepare a larger box

I've read that cats tend to lose/remove by grooming the hair around the teats. So far I'd say my girl hasn't - you can only see two exposed from where she was shaved from the ultrasound ‍♀

Is this an issue and/or could this give any indication as to gestation? Vet said 1-2 weeks to go based on ultrasound, but who knows!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

QOTN said:


> It is very common for vets to mistake the number of kittens when they scan but I don't think they would miss many. I have found they usually over-estimate.


We saw 2, possibly 4 and had 7. My friend had 4 scans for various reasons and only ever saw 2 but had 9  I'll never forget her labour updates, and then she had to choose one girl to keep, out of the 9 she had 8 girls!! So I agree that scans are not at all accurate


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

@MissRhein if the vet saw well formed kittens, they must have been at least 6 weeks old. I suppose it may be harder to tell with British, but with all my litters of 6, 7 and 8, there was no need to scan at 6 weeks to see if they were pregnant. The girls were large by then and by 7 weeks when they start moving it is easier to see with a large litter. I admit it might be a bit harder with breeds that have lots of hair but please try not to worry. I never had to supplement any of my kittens even with large litters.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Rufus15 said:


> We saw 2, possibly 4 and had 7. My friend had 4 scans for various reasons and only ever saw 2 but had 9  I'll never forget her labour updates, and then she had to choose one girl to keep, out of the 9 she had 8 girls!! So I agree that scans are not at all accurate


crikey!!!! Fingers crossed for a manageable amount for my girl - don't think she'd have the space!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

MissRhein said:


> crikey!!!! Fingers crossed for a manageable amount for my girl - don't think she'd have the space!


Hopefully not! Perhaps scans later can see kittens better, it didnt work for my friend but may have for you. I'm not sure that fur length makes a difference as they should be shaved to be scanned when longhair. Anyway, you'll soon find out!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't think I have ever supplementary hand fed a kitten for any reason other than satisfying my own anxiety and expectation of a certain weight gain per day, every day!

I often think the hardest thing, especially for those who have never had a cat give birth or newer breeders, is to not interfere.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

This is the nesting box I’ve made for her - it has a back covered over bit and a more open front section. I can give her privacy at the back or lift the flaps back for more access. 

It’s double the size of the last box and is 31” x 23”. It’s not properly lined as yet, but it’s double layer on the bottom.

I’m pretty pleased with it! Now I know how big it is, I can order some vet bed for after all kits are born.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

She’s investigating


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I use vetbed the whole way through - from kittening onwards. If she doesn't scratch it up a puppy pad underneath is good, otherwise put it under the box!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I completely cleared the room/space and she’s regularly using the box - she’s been in there the vast majority of the day, sleeping... 

I think she’s got anywhere from 7-14 days, so not long


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Look at the belly! As mad as I am (was, perhaps?) we’re all actually quite excited about it now - no point continually dwelling right?

We’re all just hoping for stress free, uneventful remainder of pregnancy/delivery and little cuties to take care of.

It’s entirely possible we MAY end up falling in love and keeping one - assuming Mum and Other Cat are ok with it! If not, good homes for all regardless. Have a few people lined up, so it’s just waiting to see how many she has... this definitely won’t happen again with Mum or Kits as all will be neutered and spayed at earliest opportunity


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

MissRhein said:


> this definitely won't happen again with Mum or Kits as all will be neutered and spayed at earliest opportunity


It's nice seeing someone prepared and taking responsibility for the offspring, we don't see it enough on here.

Glad mum is happy with her box too


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

MissRhein said:


> It's entirely possible we MAY end up falling in love and keeping one


Only one?????
Each child needs to have their very own kitten


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

SbanR said:


> Only one?????
> Each child needs to have their very own kitten


I should rephrase - we'll fall in love with them all haha but we're hoping one chooses us to be their slave haha


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

While we've never had a problem, some girls do not like their offspring staying around. 
Wise to wait and see how things go, especially with another cat to consider.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

spotty cats said:


> While we've never had a problem, some girls do not like their offspring staying around.
> Wise to wait and see how things go, especially with another cat to consider.


I had considered this - having been chatting with the breeder, she told me that Mum's mum wanted nothing to do with the kittens after about 7-8 weeks and she had to ensure they were separated. Thus, I've been preparing my children for the fact that we may not be able to keep one if Mum and Other Cat are having none of it, and that's cool. Definitely going by the rules of who was here first.

Other Cat was a right huffy pants for weeks after Mum came to us. They aren't best mates - don't sleep together or groom each other etc, but there is definitely an understanding and they do definitely get into some play tussling - and it IS definitely playful and not aggression.

I'm hoping once Mum is spayed, this will improve things even more as presumably with all the hormones (even before pregnant) she'd be a bit more 'up a height' so to speak.

Other Cat is the softest, soppiest lap cat ever. Mum is more aloof, but is affectionate and does like to lie beside you and be around you  She has some petting aggression/is sensitive to being touched - she asks to be stroked, but you literally do it for 3 seconds or prepare to feel the wrath of her claws. She's not aggressive/doesn't attack people though, it's just her way.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Today (I’ve been hanging out in the cat room for the past 2 days), I’ve observed mum digging about in the corner of the box I’ve made for her - as well as trying to dig into a huge blanket I’ve stuffed down the back of a sofa so she can’t have access (there’s definitely no way of her getting in there - it’s blocked under the sofa too, tightly).

She’s also chirping at me and seeking affection... my gut feeling is that it’s going to be days as opposed to weeks... I noticed her belly is looking a bit more pointy at the sides, and lots of visible movement from kittens when she’s lay down.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Quick question - I’ve placed the nesting box near but not touching the radiator - is this too close? Should I reposition further away? It has a thermostat valve on it (1-5, 5 being full) which I’ve turned to 3..


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Also, we have our heating set that if the temp drops below 18c it kicks in, should we have this set a tad higher - 19/20c to maintain a slightly higher ambient room temp?


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Well.... it’s now the 12th day since visiting the vets on the 5th... the vet had said, “1-2 weeks, I definitely can’t see her going to 3” - famous last word eh? Haha 

Although I’m impatiently waiting, obviously I don’t want these babies to arrive before they’re ready!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Vets don't tend to know too much about breeding


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

spotty cats said:


> Vets don't tend to know too much about breeding


it would appear so haha! That said, she didn't take any measurements... it was to confirm or deny really.

Really, this whole thing is a blessing disguise for me. I have really bad health anxiety and given the current situation, it's giving me something else to focus on.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

MissRhein said:


> it would appear so haha! That said, she didn't take any measurements... it was to confirm or deny really.
> 
> Really, this whole thing is a blessing disguise for me. I have really bad health anxiety and given the current situation, it's giving me something else to focus on.


Measurements? They're not midwives  I'm glad it's given you something else to focus on


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

@MissRhein although I haven't posted in your thread I have been following it ! To the extent that every time I see you have posted I have to quickly check to see if the kittens have arrived yet - along with you I'm waiting with bated breath for them to finally arrive !!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Rufus15 said:


> Measurements? They're not midwives  I'm glad it's given you something else to focus on


Oh haha I just naively thought they'd be able to take a crown to rump measurement of one kitten to determine week - more so in unplanned cases! Haha feel a bit daft now



Bertie'sMum said:


> @MissRhein although I haven't posted in your thread I have been following it ! To the extent that every time I see you have posted I have to quickly check to see if the kittens have arrived yet - along with you I'm waiting with bated breath for them to finally arrive !!


Aaaww, thanks for popping a message on! I promise I'll definitely keep it updated and post plenty of pictures!

I just have everything crossed it's straight forward and uneventful!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

MissRhein said:


> Oh haha I just naively thought they'd be able to take a crown to rump measurement of one kitten to determine week - more so in unplanned cases! Haha feel a bit daft now


If only it was that easy! Given me a right chuckle, don't feel silly though. You weren't to know


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

2 weeks tomorrow since vet visit, so we’ll be entering into our 3rd week... which I guess means a max of 7 days really.

I am now getting absolutely terrified in case something goes wrong and/or she doesn’t take to them :Wideyed 

I’m getting mad again at previous owner :Rage:Finger she’s currently asleep on the floor in front of me and her belly looks like a bubbling pan of boiling water.

She’s not even attempting to escape her ‘confinement’ to the two rooms we have for now - she spends her days sleeping for the vast majority of the time. Properly out for the count sleeping - twitching in REM sleep (which is super cute ). 

Today is going to spent giving everything a good final clean down and making sure everything I need is to hand in the room - I think I’m nesting on her behalf! 

Please keep everything crossed for us that it’s straight forward :Angelic:Angelic


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Although a lot can go wrong usually it doesn't with cats, and usually they are excellent mothers.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

MissRhein said:


> Oh haha I just naively thought they'd be able to take a crown to rump measurement of one kitten to determine week - more so in unplanned cases!
> <snip>


Measurements only work in humans because there is a huge amount of data behind it. That data simply doesn't exist in cats. Also I imagine a species that has (usually) a single baby at a time is easier than one which usually has several.

Interestingly it looks like it is used (sometimes) for cows & pigs! However there is of course money there. It's now also normal with almost all sheep to scan to see which ewes are empty, which have singletons etc. so that appropriate feeding & care can be given.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

When they look like they're bubbling, labour is imminent! Good luck!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Rufus15 said:


> When they look like they're bubbling, labour is imminent! Good luck!


Eek!! :Nailbiting:Nailbiting


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I don’t wanna be tooo quick off the mark, but I’m thinking something *may* be starting to happen.... a few times today I’ve wondered if I’ve seen tightenings - a bit like a human pregnancy, it may just be braxton hicks? Do cats get those?

She’s not been vocal - seen no cleaning of her back end - but she’s VERY easily agitated today, more so as the day has worn on... 

Could be nothing, and maybe I’m looking for things where there isn’t anything....


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

... I mean... realistically, it’s probably not haha


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Good luck @MissRhein  I hope all goes well.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Sounds like she's not far off, though it's always harder to tell from just people's descriptions. 
Has her belly dropped at all?


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Any progress @MissRhein ? Good luck! Hope all goes well


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Nothing through the night - probably just looking for things that aren’t there and she’ll hold onto them for another week! I’m keeping a close eye. 
I haven’t had an opportunity to see her stood up yet. My partner would’ve fed her before leaving for work, so I’ve gotten up and she’s just lounging around.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Now I’ve seen her, I’d say she’s certainly looking a tad lower... :Nailbiting


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Update: she has MAJORLY disrupted the set up in her nest. Unsure of this means anything but she been casually digger up a corner most days, but it’s all over the place today!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

MissRhein said:


> Update: she has MAJORLY disrupted the set up in her nest. Unsure of this means anything but she been casually digger up a corner most days, but it's all over the place today!


SOON I hope!!!!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

A good sign, hopefully not long now


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

MissRhein said:


> Update: she has MAJORLY disrupted the set up in her nest. Unsure of this means anything but she been casually digger up a corner most days, but it's all over the place today!


I have had girls who were frantically nesting up to two weeks in advance but I do wonder if the time is getting close and she is concerned the nest is not quite to her liking. Is it in a well-lit place? Girls are not keen on giving birth if they feel exposed. Obviously, in the wild, they would have to hide their kittens from predators. You could try putting a throw or similar over the box just leaving a small opening.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

QOTN said:


> I have had girls who were frantically nesting up to two weeks in advance but I do wonder if the time is getting close and she is concerned the nest is not quite to her liking. Is it in a well-lit place? Girls are not keen on giving birth if they feel exposed. Obviously, in the wild, they would have to hide their kittens from predators. You could try putting a throw or similar over the box just leaving a small opening.


so it's a large nearly 3ft in depth, by 2 foot width box - half is covered over - sturdy.

If I chucked a throw over it, I'd be so worried she'd try and go on top of it and misjudge the open portion covered in a throw and fall through...


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

MissRhein said:


> so it's a large nearly 3ft in depth, by 2 foot width box - half is covered over - sturdy.
> 
> If I chucked a throw over it, I'd be so worried she'd try and go on top of it and misjudge the open portion covered in a throw and fall through...


obviously there are way more layers of blankets etc in there now - so I can peel back layers as she goes.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

...also, it recieves a standard amount of daylight through some skylights - no full size windows. I stick a low lamp on in evening when I’m in there with her but switch off around 9:30-10pm for bed.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I have a pregnant girl who is due about now. Her box was set up almost two weeks ago and since then she has been pretty much wrecking it most days...so its not a particularly reliable indicator.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

MissRhein said:


> ...also, it recieves a standard amount of daylight through some skylights - no full size windows. I stick a low lamp on in evening when I'm in there with her but switch off around 9:30-10pm for bed.


I always kept curtains closed when my girls were giving birth. I might have been over cautious because some Siamese and Orientals are born with their eyes already opening but I think it is a wise move anyway to help the girl feel safe.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Sheep loves a good 3am birth, when it’s nice and quiet.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Nothing this morning.



QOTN said:


> I always kept curtains closed when my girls were giving birth. I might have been over cautious because some Siamese and Orientals are born with their eyes already opening but I think it is a wise move anyway to help the girl feel safe.


I can't shut curtains as it's a skylight...  I'll have a little think about what can be done.. might have to tape black bags over them..


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

QOTN said:


> I always kept curtains closed when my girls were giving birth.


I do too, and keep it dark for the first few days as they settle

Maybe some cardboard could be fitted over the skylight?


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

I've just logged in to see how things are. x


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Jackie C said:


> I've just logged in to see how things are. x


Still nothing as yet. She really can't be holding on to them for much longer...

I've just checked her this evening and she is definitely looking larger, lower and more knackered than yesterday!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Nothing to report this morning...


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

This her tummy, definitely looking lower beneath, but perhaps she may be starting to produce milk and it’s making her look lower... 

Other Cat came to see her through the glass... I think they’re missing each other


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

So... I have managed to have a discussion with original owner... Firstly apologising... she told me it is likely she was caught between 16-24th of January. She also advised that roma hanging around were a small black tom and a small, long hair black/white cat...

I guess I have a query re possible coat colours now! My girl is cinnamon tabby - her dad was cinnamon self and mum was chocolate tabby...

anyone like to hazard a guess, just as a bit of fun while we wait?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Black & black/brown tabby, maybe with white.

16th January + 65 days = 22nd March - tomorrow
24th January + 65 days = 30th March


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

OrientalSlave said:


> Black & black/brown tabby, maybe with white.
> 
> 16th January + 65 days = 22nd March - tomorrow
> 24th January + 65 days = 30th March


Ah, not quite as diverse a range as I had thought ha  is it not possible for other colours to come out from passed generations?


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

MissRhein said:


> Ah, not quite as diverse a range as I had thought ha  is it not possible for other colours to come out from passed generations?


You could get blues if both parents carry dilute, or solids (presuming from the description both possible males are solid), but you won't cinnamon kittens. It's not a common gene in moggies.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Rufus15 said:


> You could get blues if both parents carry dilute, or solids (presuming from the description both possible males are solid), but you won't cinnamon kittens. It's not a common gene in moggies.


Well, this is a consideration. Can't believe a word the girl says, or at least to be taken with a pinch of salt. If she allowed her out in-spayed she could've been out for hours and seen multiple toms.


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

She's got beautiful colours and patterns.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

MissRhein said:


> Well, this is a consideration. Can't believe a word the girl says, or at least to be taken with a pinch of salt. If she allowed her out in-spayed she could've been out for hours and seen multiple toms.


You'll soon find out!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Rufus15 said:


> You'll soon find out!





Jackie C said:


> She's got beautiful colours and patterns.


Thank you, she is gorgeous :Joyful


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Nada through the night..


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

carly87 said:


> If you are seeing movement, then she is likely at least 7 weeks rpegnant, meaning you have a further 2 to go at most.


So I saw and filmed movement on 8th of March - and Carly87 advised that if I was seeing movement then she'd be at least 7 weeks. If that's correct, then it's reasonably accurate to a degree that she's 9 weeks, give or take, today.

It really is any day now. Eeeeek!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Nothing today, and no signs of anything! These are gonna be well cooked babies! ummy1ummy


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

She's making a meal out of it isn't she!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Rufus15 said:


> She's making a meal out of it isn't she!


She's taking her sweet time! Haha


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

MissRhein said:


> So I saw and filmed movement on 8th of March - and Carly87 advised that if I was seeing movement then she'd be at least 7 weeks. If that's correct, then it's reasonably accurate to a degree that she's 9 weeks, give or take, today.
> It really is any day now. Eeeeek!


I think you might have been a bit optimistic about their arrival. I always calculated due date as 65 days from the middle day of mating. I was only surprised once in 20 years and I know some girls go until day 70 and then have them without problems. Fortunately I never had to wait that long because I used to be as impatient as you are.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I


QOTN said:


> I think you might have been a bit optimistic about their arrival. I always calculated due date as 65 days from the middle day of mating. I was only surprised once in 20 years and I know some girls go until day 70 and then have them without problems. Fortunately I never had to wait that long because I used to be as impatient as you are.


I suspect this is the case.... all that wasted time sleeping on a REALLY uncomfortable sofa

Though now I really do need to sleep on the sofa haha


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Nothing today. And definitely not in labour after speed she ran over to me when I saved half a cooked sausage for her as a treat!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If you give up all hope of the kittens ever arriving and go out, that will do it. 

And it's not entirely jest, my first girl liked to give birth in private. She delivered 2 litters of 6 and did it all herself, including cleaning and disposing of (eating!) the placentas.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

OrientalSlave said:


> If you give up all hope of the kittens ever arriving and go out, that will do it.
> 
> And it's not entirely jest, my first girl liked to give birth in private. She delivered 2 litters of 6 and did it all herself, including cleaning and disposing of (eating!) the placentas.


yeah, I'm not constantly in there through the day - I have 4 children and a house to run hah. Just pop in and out briefly to give her some attention/interaction/food/scoop litter, and then in on a night time


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

MissRhein said:


> yeah, I'm not constantly in there through the day - I have 4 children and a house to run hah. Just pop in and out briefly to give her some attention/interaction/food/scoop litter, and then in on a night time


It's more often night time or early morning when they deliver...


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

OrientalSlave said:


> It's more often night time or early morning when they deliver...


Maybe I should sleep in my own bed and do the baby monitor thing.... I just slept in there as people said I should on hand..


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Nada, nish, nowt, nothing today  

maybe tomorrow haha


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Can she still clean her bottom?


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

thank you for keeping us updated - tell her that all her Pet Forum Aunties & Uncles are looking forward to "meeting" her babies 
(oooo, we do LOVE kittens here !!!!!!)


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

OrientalSlave said:


> Can she still clean her bottom?


Just about! Though sometimes takes a few tries to get into the right position!



Bertie'sMum said:


> thank you for keeping us updated - tell her that all her Pet Forum Aunties & Uncles are looking forward to "meeting" her babies
> (oooo, we do LOVE kittens here !!!!!!)


I keep trying not to forget - having the kids off mornings (and the rest of the day, till bedtime :Banghead:Joyful) are busy! HAha.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Mine have never been able to reach their bottoms for most of the last week. You might have a while to go! However mine have never had less than 5 kittens...


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Conversely, I had a girl with 9 inside her who kept her bum white as snow right up until the last day!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Still nothing haha 

Today is 3 weeks post-vets. 

But she really can’t be far off. the vet specifically said well formed kittens because she could see bone formation. I’ve done some research and it says skeletons start to develop and can be seen on ultrasound/x-ray between days 40-45. So even using the lower estimate of day 40, she’d be 63 days tomorrow.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

We have always had ours ultrasounded at around day 30. You can see them earlier but not reliably. X-ray diagnosis of pregnancy has to be done later as required calcification of the skeleton.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Top photo is day 27 (that’s the spine you can see)
Second photo day 32

I count from the first day of mating. Apologies about rubbish photos generally too busy holding to photograph. Blue had a few ultrasounds through out pregnancy as she was So unwell.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Thank you all. My dates can’t be far out, otherwise that would suggest she got pregnant while here, and I can categorically state that is not a possibility. 
Initially I just had ultrasound off vet to go from and then previous owner advised 16-24th Jan as dates she thought were likely (but pinch of salt as she also told me she was neutered when clearly not ), but she’s got to be at least 8 weeks - though I visibly saw movement on March 8th and every day since.. 

At what point would people recommend a potential trip to the vets?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Unless she was in actual labour not progressing I would not see a vet at this point.
She isn't overdue by the date ranges the owner gave.


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## moomoowawa (May 19, 2019)

I'm so invested in this! Come on, kitty!


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

If she was caught on the last day the owner suggested she got out, she would be due Sunday. Those dates would fit with the ultrasound appearances. I would speak to the vet unless you haven’t got kittens by next Friday. 

Good luck


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Nada. 

I’m beginning to wonder if the vet just saw kitten shaped kidneys on that ultrasound haha 

She looks fit to burst! I’m keeping an eye on movement at this stage... if nothing come Sunday - 65 days from January 24th, I may consider ringing vet to see what advice they may have.. If they suggest a welfare check up, I’ll happily take her in.


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Please don't. You would be putting yourself, your family and veterinary staff at risk. Trips to the vet are not appreciated by heavily pregnant cats. I know it is like watching paint dry, but she will have them when they are good and ready.


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

Surely they must be cooked by now ? This waiting is sheer agony, and not just for her


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

MissRhein said:


> Nada.
> I'm beginning to wonder if the vet just saw kitten shaped kidneys on that ultrasound haha
> She looks fit to burst! I'm keeping an eye on movement at this stage... if nothing come Sunday - 65 days from January 24th, I may consider ringing vet to see what advice they may have.. If they suggest a welfare check up, I'll happily take her in.


Please don't. If you still see movement try not to worry. At least leave it until day 70. My vet is not even seeing all emergencies but trying to consult over the phone etc. All the vet can offer you is a caesarean, not something you would want if it can possibly be avoided.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Please don't. If you still see movement try not to worry. At least leave it until day 70. My vet is not even seeing all emergencies but trying to consult over the phone etc. All the vet can offer you is a caesarean, not something you would want if it can possibly be avoided.


Also you really don't know what date day 70 is.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I will continue to monitor movement, I was only suggesting a phone call for advice - being the vet knew what she saw on ultrasound - and then following whatever they felt best.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

What can they say to you that's not been said here? They won't do an elective section firstly because only emergencies are being dealt with, and secondly there is uncertainty about her dates. All they can tell you to do is sit & wait.

If she was in serious labour and failing to make progress that would be another matter.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

OrientalSlave said:


> What can they say to you that's not been said here? They won't do an elective section firstly because only emergencies are being dealt with, and secondly there is uncertainty about her dates. All they can tell you to do is sit & wait.
> 
> If she was in serious labour and failing to make progress that would be another matter.


It wasn't meant to offend anybody. It was in light of the forum caveat that advice in the forum does not trump actual advice from a vet - who could actually lay eyes upon an animal IF needed. I'm sorry you feel that I was disregarding your much appreciated advice/expertise.

All I said was id make a phone call to a vet - who has seen and scanned her - and ask for and follow any advice she had.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Experienced breeders know more than vets about breeding.

I understand your anxious, but please don't take offence to posts, there really isn't anything to do but wait.
She will have them when ready, doesn't sound like they've dropped yet?


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I didn't allow this cat to get pregnant. I just want to ensure her welfare ‍♀


spotty cats said:


> Experienced breeders know more than vets about breeding.
> 
> I understand your anxious, but please don't take offence to posts, there really isn't anything to do but wait.
> She will have them when ready, doesn't sound like they've dropped yet?


I am anxious... because there is *no* conceivable way she got pregnant here. I'm conscious days are passing and she *must* getting super near... It's anxiousness for her welfare.

if I'd known, I would've had her spayed regardless. If I'd known she had this long left I'd have done it - the vet suggested she was super close.

I'm not offended. I just want to ensure her health. I just said I'd phone next Friday - as that's 2 weeks over the upper estimate the vet gave from the ultrasound.

I'd prefer not to spend the money, but I'll do it if it ensures her health. I just want what's best for her


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

MissRhein said:


> I didn't allow this cat to get pregnant. I just want to ensure her welfare ‍♀
> 
> I am anxious... because there is *no* conceivable way she got pregnant here. I'm conscious days are passing and she *must* getting super near... It's anxiousness for her welfare.
> 
> ...


It's hard not to be anxious even when you have a date, so I understand where you're coming from. It's unusual for a cat to go over day 70 so you really just need to sit on your hands and wait. I feel for you


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Try to relax, you will know when labour starts and we will be here.

She needs you to be calm, and not pick up on the anxiety. The other replies are correct, taking her to the vet is of no use.

Waiting is tedious even with a due date, we do understand that


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

WE’VE GOT ONE KITTEN GUYS!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Kitten #1


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Congratulations!
Have been reading silently and waiting with you- so glad the little one is there!
Are there more to come?


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

We have a second one about 30 mins ago


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

We’ve got a third


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I have to say, she has not made so much as a peep while giving birth, no panting or anything! What a trooper!


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Wow! Such a good girl!
Glad all is going well!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I think we’re done - she seems very settled and purring contentedly. 
I’m not even joking - she hasn’t made a peep throughout. No panting etc. 
And none of the signs of labour to suggest she was going into labour at all. 
I’ll give mum a rest and let the kittens feed, then I’ll clean up and take some pictures. I need a nap!!!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I give them all a quick weigh - 108g, 114g and 108g


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## ChaosCat (Dec 7, 2017)

Well done all of you!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I must get some sleep!  
Thanks to @spotty cats who happened to be up for questions I had


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

MissRhein said:


> I must get some sleep!
> Thanks to @spotty cats who happened to be up for questions I had


Being the other side of the world helps . Good weights


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

Hip, Hip, Hooray three cheers for three gorgeous kitties :Kiss:Kiss:Kiss
the waiting was well worthwhile

@MissRhein - I don't think you've ever told us Mama cat's name ? Sorry it you have and I've missed it


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Hooray!!!!!!!! Well done mummy cat.
Congratulations @MissRhein


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Congratulations - nice size kittens. Hope you've managed to catch up on your sleep a bit now.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Well, that is super! Nice birth weights too, so nothing to worry about there.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Well done Tara. What a clever girl. @MissRhein, I hope you can now relax and enjoy the babies. Lovely weights.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Question... I’ve been observing mum for quite a few hours and I while she’s very attentive and feeding well, I haven’t seen her once help them to eliminate.. and I actually saw drips of urine come out from one of the kittens! Based on this, I have just stimulated them all to go to the loo.

My question is, will mum get the hang of this and start doing it?! Is she just too tired right now?


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Oh well done little lady  

Well done human mum too, so glad for you that they are all here and safe and sound. Congratulations.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

MissRhein said:


> Question... I've been observing mum for quite a few hours and I while she's very attentive and feeding well, I haven't seen her once help them to eliminate.. and I actually saw drips of urine come out from one of the kittens! Based on this, I have just stimulated them all to go to the loo.
> 
> My question is, will mum get the hang of this and start doing it?! Is she just too tired right now?


If you put a little dab of butter or yoghurt on the kittens it will encourage mum to clean them


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

lymorelynn said:


> If you put a little dab of butter or yoghurt on the kittens it will encourage mum to clean them


Thank you, I will try this


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

lymorelynn said:


> If you put a little dab of butter or yoghurt on the kittens it will encourage mum to clean them


I'm just a bit worried about through the night - as that would be a long time to go without helping them eliminate.
Should I wake up to do the butter trick until I see her doing it of her own accord during the day?


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

See how she goes. If you think she still isn't doing it herself check when you go to bed and again during the night but don't get too stressed. Some cats are very discreet about it and you don't always see them. With mine the kittens usually protest, even from an early age, with a lot of squeaking


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

lymorelynn said:


> See how she goes. If you think she still isn't doing it herself check when you go to bed and again during the night but don't get too stressed. Some cats are very discreet about it and you don't always see them. With mine the kittens usually protest, even from an early age, with a lot of squeaking


Thank you  where do I put the butter? Haha anywhere in particular?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

MissRhein said:


> Thank you  where do I put the butter? Haha anywhere in particular?


On their anal area as that's what you want her to clean


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Give her time. I never once saw my girl eliminate the babies but she did as I would find tiny little poop nuggets. This is new to her, and you need to give her time to figure it out. You'll know if kittens are constipated if their tummies are hard and they're screaming.

Congratulations on babies


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## lenanowa (Apr 15, 2019)

I've been watching this thread and holding my breath - congratulations!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

ummy1:JoyfulAll is well - weighed kittens this morning - multiple times and on hard surface and gains are upwards of 30g?!! I checked my scales multiple times. Is this even possible?!

I have also seen her licking their behinds today, so she is helping them to eliminate too!

Kitten pic just because.. ummy1ummy1ummy:Cat Girls at the front, boy at the back.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

MissRhein said:


> ummy1:JoyfulAll is well - weighed kittens this morning - multiple times and on hard surface and gains are upwards of 30g?!! I checked my scales multiple times. Is this even possible?!
> 
> I have also seen her licking their behinds today, so she is helping them to eliminate too!
> 
> Kitten pic just because.. ummy1ummy1ummy:Cat Girls at the front, boy at the back.


Phoebe 'Beefy' would regularly gain 22g a day. You may see a smaller gain tomorrow as it could be that they had empty bellies and bladders yesterday and full bellies and bladders today. I tend to average the weight gain over 3 days, and wouldn't worry unless we had losses or an average gain less than 7g over 3 days.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

We tend to see 20-30gm a day with ours. As above, take an average.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

They have beautiful markings @MissRhein . I love tabbies, especially brown tabbies


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Thank you everyone, you’re all absolute stars. I read 10g per day but haven’t read anywhere it could and would generally be higher - a relief! I’ll keep recording and look for an average 

In terms of diet for mum, I’m soaking her dried (kitten) food in made up kitten formula and mixing with wet (kitten) food and adding a dash of extra water, as well as providing fresh water ..

Is this appropriate? Just want to ensure she’s getting proper nutrition... I breastfed my own kids and knew how starving I would get haha


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

SbanR said:


> They have beautiful markings @MissRhein . I love tabbies, especially brown tabbies


thank you, they are so gorgeous. Such sweet little faces. I am in LOVE. I'm so impressed with Tara (mum) - she is such an actual super star..


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I have also informed our vet. We have Tara’s spay booked in for 8 weeks from yesterday, kittens first and second injections.
They don’t spay/neuter til 16 weeks so looking for a vet who will do 12 weeks - as there are some semi-local via cats protection - and I’ll organize chipping while they’re under.

All homes are provisionally confirmed - a family member, my best friend and a girl I went to Uni with - all have agreed re covering cost price of the above, as all things any owner would do anyway.

Looking forward to watching them grow and personalities develop. We’re in the most delightful warm, fuzzy, chubby little kitten bubble. My children have been amazing. Fabulous little helpers.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

We don't feed dry but I don't think you're supposed to soak it due to bacteria growth. @lorilu would know more about that


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

spotty cats said:


> We don't feed dry but I don't think you're supposed to soak it due to bacteria growth. @lorilu would know more about that


It's grain free dry (if that makes a difference!) I could mix wet and kitten formula? Would that be better? We have raw mince and tuna in spring water that I could drain, if those would be better

what's the recommended best feed for good milk? I'll get whatever I need


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

MissRhein said:


> Thank you everyone, you're all absolute stars. I read 10g per day but haven't read anywhere it could and would generally be higher - a relief! I'll keep recording and look for an average
> 
> In terms of diet for mum, I'm soaking her dried (kitten) food in made up kitten formula and mixing with wet (kitten) food and adding a dash of extra water, as well as providing fresh water ..
> 
> Is this appropriate? Just want to ensure she's getting proper nutrition... I breastfed my own kids and knew how starving I would get haha


I would recommend you eliminate the kibble completely. And moistening kibble is never a good idea. It's covered with bacteria to begin with and when it gets wet the bacteria grows much more quickly. An all wet (and/or raw) diet is much better for her and the kittens as they wean.

I wouldn't feed the human tuna either. Too high in sodium and not balanced. Tuna isn't good for cats for a number of reasons.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

lorilu said:


> I would recommend you eliminate the kibble completely. And moistening kibble is never a good idea. It's covered with bacteria to begin with and when it gets wet the bacteria grows much more quickly. An all wet diet is much better for her and the kittens as they wean.
> 
> I wouldn't feed the human tuna either. Too high in sodium and not balanced. Tuna isn't good for cats for a number of reasons.


Just wet food, no tuna it is!! We have plenty in, we've been stocking up for the last few weeks for on going!

What about making up/giving her some of the kitten formula as an extra to her usual water?


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

MissRhein said:


> Just wet food, no tuna it is!! We have plenty in, we've been stocking up for the last few weeks for on going!
> 
> What about making up/giving her some of the kitten formula as an extra to her usual water?


I can't advise on that I don't know anything about nursing/lactating queens and what they need, other than all cats need a wet (and/or raw) diet. The breeders will know. 

PS I did edit my post to include the raw as okay as well.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

lorilu said:


> I can't advise on that I don't know anything about nursing/lactating queens and what they need, other than all cats need a wet (and/or raw) diet. The breeders will know.
> 
> PS I did edit my post to include the raw as okay as well.


 We have some fresh mince from butcher - I'll add a tad at a time and see how she goes. Don't want to upset her tummy


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I will say, I’ve fed her plenty (LOADS, haha) of wet - as I do realise cats are carnivores - dried seems a bit odd to me unless minus grains (hence grain free dried that we buy!)

we tend to measure the dried and free feed wet whenever they ask - and they do - but they do still eat the dry...


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

MissRhein said:


> I will say, I've fed her plenty (LOADS, haha) of wet - as I do realise cats are carnivores - dried seems a bit odd to me unless minus grains (hence grain free dried that we buy!)
> 
> we tend to measure the dried and free feed wet whenever they ask - and they do - but they do still eat the dry...


"Grain free" doesn't mean low carb. Something has to be added to hold the ingredients together and it's is usually something not good for cats. All kibble is high in carbs, and is triple processed at extremely high heats. I would urge you to phase it out completely.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

You can give her formula if she's enjoying it, my girls get a dish of goats milk that the kittens also later enjoy.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I also gave my girl kitten milk, she wouldn't take it separately but she enjoyed it over her food. I use a syringe and dotted it over


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## Bertie'sMum (Mar 27, 2017)

@MissRhein it's been so long since I last had a kitten that I'd forgotten how exciting it is to see them grow and develop (my last 3 cats were all adopted as adults)  Your posts are bringing it all back !

Tara's babies are truly adorable:Kiss:Kiss
I hope that when they go to their forever homes their new guardians will pop in to let us know how they are getting on.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Vet just called this morning to cancel all none emergency appointments - so Tara’s spay and kits vaccination appointments. Bit surprised they wouldn’t just leave them and review the situation as the dates approach.. seems a bit silly to me...


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

MissRhein said:


> Vet just called this morning to cancel all none emergency appointments - so Tara's spay and kits vaccination appointments. Bit surprised they wouldn't just leave them and review the situation as the dates approach.. seems a bit silly to me...


The decision is still in the hands of each individual vet practice, however, the RCVS a few days ago revised info they are putting out to vets - vaccinations may now be undertaken.

It may well be worth checking with them at the appropriate time.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

gskinner123 said:


> The decision is still in the hands of each individual vet practice, however, the RCVS a few days ago revised info they are putting out to vets - vaccinations may now be undertaken.
> 
> It may well be worth checking with them at the appropriate time.


The guidelines are really murky - I got my kittens done but a friend was refused in Milton Keynes with the reasoning that vaccines wouldn't be done unless there's an outbreak in the area. It's so unclear and unhelpful right now


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Just a quick update - the boy is in the early 180s and girl both high 160s - their weights are seriously fab and more than I could’ve imagined (10g per day I was going off!!!). Tara is such a fab mum.

Leaving her be with her gorgeous babies for this week bar a quick daily weigh, keeping the nest clean, her food & water bowl full, her litter box clean and giving her much needed attention.

I’m not trying to pester her for pics etc. Will get some more next week. The four of them are the sweetest though - I’ll keep all updated and definitely point new homes in this direction when the time comes.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

MissRhein said:


> definitely point new homes in this direction when the time comes


You'll have to be firmer than that. They Have to join PF first and swear to update us regularly Or No Kitten!!!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

All kittens doing fab - all over 250g at 9 days, one girl with her eyes open.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I’m sorry I haven’t been on for a few days - so hectic entertaining the kids!!


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

Only just caught up with this thread (I didn't get a notification from PF).

They are simply gorgeous!! xxx


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Oh dear. Teeny tiny tabbies. 

Help me! I can barely cope


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Lovely babies :Cat


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Beautiful babies:Kiss


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Hmmm  I’m a bit worried about the little boy. He’s had the biggest gains and is the chunkiest if the kittens but he’s the least vocal (though he does make noise) and he has a pale tongue. 
I’m going to ring the vets today but my partner is working (has car) and our nearest vet is not commutable for me with kids and mum and sisters.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

If he is gaining weight I wouldn’t worry too much. He is probably nicely satisfied and has the art of latching on. He also probably isn’t being knocked off the nipple, that makes them shriek.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

lillytheunicorn said:


> If he is gaining weight I wouldn't worry too much. He is probably nicely satisfied and has the art of latching on. He also probably isn't being knocked off the nipple, that makes them shriek.


Thank you, I'll just keep an eye. All nearly tripled their birthweights at 12 days 

first pic a girl, second the boy (I so want to keep him and call him Teddy!) and a lovely sleepy kitten pile


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

They are so sweet:Kiss


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Look at these dots!!! Sorry I haven’t updated in a while - I haven’t disappeared!

left to right - Vinny, Lottie and Bella :Kiss

Mum is doing a grand job, babies are PERFECT. Can’t believe they’re 3 weeks already...


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Very sweet :Cat


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## Mrs Funkin (Mar 12, 2018)

Oh dear.

*prepares kitten-napping bag*

That little man on the left better watch out....LOOK AT THAT FACEEEE!!!!!!

They are all delicious but Vinny! I think the deal needs to be whoever adopts them needs to join Pet Forums so we can see them grow up.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Very cute, one on the right looks a little fluey? Nose & eyes don't look clear, perhaps something to keep an eye on


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

They're so cute. As above, one on the right looks quite wet eyed and snotty


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Mrs Funkin said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> *prepares kitten-napping bag*
> 
> ...


I know - Vinny is just delicious!!!



Rufus15 said:


> They're so cute. As above, one on the right looks quite wet eyed and snotty





spotty cats said:


> Very cute, one on the right looks a little fluey? Nose & eyes don't look clear, perhaps something to keep an eye on


Oh no - I'm a bit worried now?! I genuinely think we've had coronavirus in this house, and Tara was sneezy while pregnant... and I even wondered this prior to all the news about cats being susceptible etc...

What should I do? She's gaining well, and still just as active as the others?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I would not worry too much if Bella is doing well. Just keep an eye on her. Some mums have no idea. They think a good wash starts with the kitten's rear end and then moves to the face so eyes are vulnerable. I suspect you would have had big problems with them when they were new born if Tara is a flu carrier. I think it is not worthwhile to worry about Covid since there is nothing you could do about that even if it were true.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

MissRhein said:


> Oh no - I'm a bit worried now?! I genuinely think we've had coronavirus in this house, and Tara was sneezy while pregnant... and I even wondered this prior to all the news about cats being susceptible etc...
> 
> What should I do? She's gaining well, and still just as active as the others?


Just monitor it, it probably is that she's fighting something off and it doesn't develop


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Use cooled black tea or salted water to clean the eye and keep an eye on it.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

spotty cats said:


> Use cooled black tea or salted water to clean the eye and keep an eye on it.


I've done this morning 

We had an escapee earlier today.. I heard Tara chirping like mad and one of the girls had managed to get under a sofa that I thought was sufficiently blocked - but obviously they're so tiny. Safely retrieved - had to lure Tara out of the room with pepperoni off last nights take-away first, then it took her ages to realise all three were safely back in nest... it's now secured so they can't get out but she can get in.

I've ordered this set up in picture - I'm going lay bed pads under foam play tiles - practical as wipe-able... plus side, I can use the pen as a storage shelf after the kittens have left and my little girl can use the foam tiles in the back garden


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I use similar panels, but put a big piece of lino down under then. Those foam pieces will be wrecked within a week!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Rufus15 said:


> I use similar panels, but put a big piece of lino down under then. Those foam pieces will be wrecked within a week!


I didn't think of this! Don't want them nibbling on little pieces etc. I thought they may have been robust but obviously, claws doh! Can't believe I didn't anticipate that!

I think my OH may go mad if I spend more money haha but the foam pads will be great for our toddler.

I'll see if I can get a cheap off cut from eBay


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I think mum is thankful I’ve heightened the lip of the nest so the kittens can’t get out... I think she was a bit up a height after the girl went under the sofa and she couldn’t retrieve her but she seems so much happier.. 

Honestly, she is such a good little mum. She’s taken fabulous care of them. Such a pleasure and a privilege to get to sit in that room and listening to her chirruping to them, while cleaning and nuzzling them. 

Once the pen arrives on Monday, I’ll be introducing the litter tray as they’ve started scooting on the bedding - so that’s getting changed twice a day!

Any tips for litter training? Also, I guess I need to be prepared for weaning - any hints and tips for that would be welcome too


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Use a low sided tray and expect daily accidents! Keep them confined to the pen so they can find the tray easily. They will copy mum as to what to do


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Rufus15 said:


> Use a low sided tray and expect daily accidents! Keep them confined to the pen so they can find the tray easily. They will copy mum as to what to do


so should I put mums tray in too?! It's a huge Brit-pet thing!


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

MissRhein said:


> Any tips for litter training?





MissRhein said:


> so should I put mums tray in too?! It's a huge Brit-pet thing!


I had a kitten room so far more opportunities for inventive piddling but I just mopped it up and put it in a kitten tray over the place. They tend to choose corners and edges. I always started with a piece of newspaper with kitchen towel on top. When they started using the trays, I used to put some paper litter in one end and gradually increased the amount until I could dispense with the paper. Keep a little wet paper or litter in the trays when you change them until they are fully trained.

I used to find that when the kittens grew bigger, there was always one that decided mum's tray was better and landed headfirst in it. Then the others would eventually copy. I expect you will be letting the kittens run around when supervised by the time that stage is reached so I would leave them to discover the big tray then.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

QOTN said:


> I had a kitten room so far more opportunities for inventive piddling but I just mopped it up and put it in a kitten tray over the place. They tend to choose corners and edges. I always started with a piece of newspaper with kitchen towel on top. When they started using the trays, I used to put some paper litter in one end and gradually increased the amount until I could dispense with the paper. Keep a little wet paper or litter in the trays when you change them until they are fully trained.
> 
> I used to find that when the kittens grew bigger, there was always one that decided mum's tray was better and landed headfirst in it. Then the others would eventually copy. I expect you will be letting the kittens run around when supervised by the time that stage is reached so I would leave them to discover the big tray then.


thank you, very helpful


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Hopefully you won't have daily accidents, we never do.

Just put a tray or 2 in the sectioned off area at about 3 weeks and they use it. 

Eating is the same, put mums plate down and the little ones will toddle over to eat.


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## Beebop (Apr 17, 2020)

Lurker on the thread delurking to ask - what are the panels called for the kitten area? Our kits are 10 days old and I could do with something similar, it's a great idea!


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Beebop said:


> Lurker on the thread delurking to ask - what are the panels called for the kitten area? Our kits are 10 days old and I could do with something similar, it's a great idea!


Have a look for small animal pens on amazon and they come up


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

QOTN said:


> I would not worry too much if Bella is doing well. Just keep an eye on her. Some mums have no idea. They think a good wash starts with the kitten's rear end and then moves to the face so eyes are vulnerable.


As it's known here, Bum Eye 
Cooled Chamomile tea works wonders on it and it clears up in a day or so.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

spotty cats said:


> Hopefully you won't have daily accidents, we never do.
> 
> Just put a tray or 2 in the sectioned off area at about 3 weeks and they use it.
> 
> Eating is the same, put mums plate down and the little ones will toddle over to eat.


Is there anything special I should be doing with food? Mashing it? Mixing it with kitten milk replacer or water?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

lillytheunicorn said:


> As it's known here, Bum Eye
> Cooled Chamomile tea works wonders on it and it clears up in a day or so.


Good to know that breeders' 'technical' terms that I know also apply to different breeds!


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

MissRhein said:


> Is there anything special I should be doing with food? Mashing it? Mixing it with kitten milk replacer or water?


I don't, we feed raw so kittens just get mince instead of chunks to begin with.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

MissRhein said:


> Is there anything special I should be doing with food? Mashing it? Mixing it with kitten milk replacer or water?


I start with a soft mousse but that's usually eaten by mum before the kittens get to try it. They soon progress to raw here too.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I smoosh up the wet, but I do that for my adults too. I don't start on a paste, just straight to food.

There's heaps of different ways to wean


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Thanks guys, I’ll have a good look. Can’t believe they’re 4 weeks old tomorrow :Cat


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Bearing in mind that Tara comes down from Orientals, I thought I would share my method. Although The Pig was so-called because at three weeks old, he waddled to his mother's plate and started scoffing it crying yum yum yum all the while, I rarely found that kittens just started eating food. It was much more fun to paddle in it so I used to be pro-active in weaning.

I would start with a tiny amount of chicken well mashed into the warm cooking liquid, sat the kitten on my lap facing outwards and offered the saucer at mouth height. If there was no interest I would offer a little on my finger. That usually worked but if not, I would gently put the morsel on their tongue. There is usually no stopping them once they have tasted food but some kittens take weeks longer to reach the ready stage.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Everybody does it differently and what works varies. Mine have always started eating biscuits first as we always have a bowl in the pen for mum. I presume they require less coordination than eating and not inhaling wet food. Except for the stubborn kitten of the litter who will not wean despite trying various different methods. I usually put the wet food spread out in a dinner plate as it means they can get some while mum is eating. Mine are started on thrive chicken (I used to feed the kitten until I realised that it didn’t seem to matter when OH gave them the adult not the kitten at 4 weeks old.)

Mum usually sorts out the stubborn kitten as they won’t wean by not feeding them until they have established eating, I do see slowing down of weight gains. It’s usually the kitten who has had the biggest gains consistently when suckling in my litters that are slow to wean. The ones who have had the more modest gains wean first and take over in growth. Unless you are Phoebe ‘Beefy’ who found that she could have real food and the same quantity of milk. She was 50% bigger than the smallest kittens at 8 weeks old but at almost a year old I have kept her (the biggest) and the smallest and they are within 100g of each other. Beefy had gains on average of 30grams whereas the other kittens were 15grams despite all being a similar weight of 142-156g at birth.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Bearing in mind that Tara comes down from Orientals


I thought she was a BSH? Perhaps I'm confusing cats.

My breed has Siamese origins but thankfully no weaning issues. 
Fingers crossed for your kittens MissR, no need to worry if they don't all dive in instantly.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

spotty cats said:


> I thought she was a BSH? Perhaps I'm confusing cats.
> My breed has Siamese origins but thankfully no weaning issues.
> Fingers crossed for your kittens MissR, no need to worry if they don't all dive in instantly.


Tara is a cinnamon tabby BSH. The cinnamon gene was introduced into BSH via Oriental/Siamese lines.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Tara is a cinnamon tabby BSH. The cinnamon gene was introduced into BSH via Oriental/Siamese lines.


Ah thank you. 
Hopefully it's far enough down the line to make litter training and weaning easier.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I have to say, I'm also quite proactive at weaning. I made the mistake with my first litter of not being. Fatboy almost choked on a piece of food, and all 3 kittens had a grand old time swimming, paddling and rolling in it. One litter of that kind of mess was enough for me. I will do almost the same as QOTN does. I start with a mince (mine also have raw) which is finely ground. I will heat it to make it more apetising (just a bit of hot water does the trick for me), then spread it round the rim of a saucer or similar. I find that mine want to suck, so I line it up on the plate so they can almost suck it off. Frustration generally leads to them standing with 2 front feet in the plate while they bury their heads in the food once they've had a taste, and sucking very, very quickly turns to proper eating. I don't really have a problem with mum eating their food as I will feed her fit to bursting as a general rule, and will ensure she has a top up before I start encouraging kittens. She will often dive in, but it's less frantic and more sociable, and there's always some left for them to eat. If a kitten is stubborn, I ffer food on fingers, gradually lowering my hand towards the bowl until my fingers are in the food. I wait until they're eating before moving my hand away. Even my most stubborn kitten was eating within 1.5 weeks of this, and all are generally little porkers by the time they leave.


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## lenanowa (Apr 15, 2019)

Slightly irrelevant question, but it all sounds like A LOT of work, for example I'm guessing that once weaned, kittens need small portions multiple times day - so do you folks (breeders I mean) typically work from home when you have a litter? Or do a normal 9-5? I just find it really interesting to hear those "behind the scenes" stories


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I am now retired but I worked mostly at home for over 20 years, fostering at first, breeding more recently.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

lenanowa said:


> Slightly irrelevant question, but it all sounds like A LOT of work, for example I'm guessing that once weaned, kittens need small portions multiple times day - so do you folks (breeders I mean) typically work from home when you have a litter? Or do a normal 9-5? I just find it really interesting to hear those "behind the scenes" stories


When I first started breeding I was working but in partnership with my husband so I could the hours I wanted and was able to do some work from home. Now we're retired it makes things much easier. I honestly don't know how breeders with a 9-5 job or with young families manage. Hats off to them


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lymorelynn said:


> When I first started breeding I was working but in partnership with my husband so I could the hours I wanted and was able to do some work from home. Now we're retired it makes things much easier. I honestly don't know how breeders with a 9-5 job or with young families manage. Hats off to them


I don't think 9-5 workers can manage on their own. Yes, one can take a week off work when a litter is due (I always did despite working at home), but if things go pear-shaped later as can happen?


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

For the first ten years I was breeding I was working full time as a teacher. If possible I used to time my girls to give birth when I was on holiday. I only remember once when my QOTN had a litter before I got home from work. The litter training and weaning can be done evenings and weekends (large amounts of food should always be available in the kitten room for queen and kittens) but anybody with extra commitments as well would find it difficult to work full time and socialise the kittens.

Eventually I gave up work so the last ten years I was breeding I suppose were a bit easier.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> For the first ten years I was breeding I was working full time as a teacher. If possible I used to time my girls to give birth when I was on holiday. I only remember once when my QOTN had a litter before I got home from work. The litter training and weaning can be done evenings and weekends (large amounts of food should always be available in the kitten room for queen and kittens) but anybody with extra commitments as well would find it difficult to work full time and socialise the kittens.
> 
> Eventually I gave up work so the last ten years I was breeding I suppose were a bit easier.


Guess it depends a bit on the job and on travelling both commuting & for work. I had to go to meetings in Birmingham fairly often which was a long drive from Leeds, or a drive & a flight from here. I also had to travel up hear regularly for work when I was in Leeds.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

I held down shift work when I was breeding, but it requires an awful lot of commitment and militare precision. I was often found at 4 in the morning scrubbing my stud pen, then into the house for a quick change, into kittens, socialize, feed, wean, clean, feed again, into living room to play with rest of household, replenish massive amount of food in kitten pen (a few bowls worth), off to work, pop home at lunch if able (ask friends/pay a pet sitter if not, just to replenish food), then rinse and repeat in the evening. So exhausting, but worth it. I also had a pet cam set up, and would remotely monitor. My work colleagues loved it when I had a litter, as they knew my phone would constantly be showing kitten cam.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

carly87 said:


> I held down shift work when I was breeding, but it requires an awful lot of commitment and militare precision. I was often found at 4 in the morning scrubbing my stud pen, then into the house for a quick change, into kittens, socialize, feed, wean, clean, feed again, into living room to play with rest of household, replenish massive amount of food in kitten pen (a few bowls worth), off to work, pop home at lunch if able (ask friends/pay a pet sitter if not, just to replenish food), then rinse and repeat in the evening. So exhausting, but worth it. I also had a pet cam set up, and would remotely monitor. My work colleagues loved it when I had a litter, as they knew my phone would constantly be showing kitten cam.


It's OK until something goes wrong - maybe kittens that need feeding every 2 hours night & day.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

I work full time, I took off a week for each litter. When Blue had her c-section and I was feeding her kittens 2 hourly it's was fun as I also had coursework to do. I did get into a routine and would make sure everything was prepped for the next feed whilst waiting for the milk to warm to body temperature. The RC bottles were great to store the next feed in but little else. I was so worried that we wouldn't establish proper feeding from mum by the time I was due back at work and would have to ask my boss if I could either have more time off or bring kittens with me. Thankfully we did manage to establish feeding with just top ups. 
As @carly87 sats you do have to plan it with military precision.I would be up at 6am and would normally still be hoovering and cleaning at 11pm to ensure kitten room was hoovered and steam mopped twice daily. All litter trays were changed and cleaned twice daily while ensuring kittens had enough socialisation and our adults got attention. Breakfast consisted of toast eaten on way to car and coffee drank out of travel mug. If it wasn't for OH I couldn't manage,


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

OS, I've had that happen to me, and have had to use leave to get them to the 3 week mark when I could begin to push weaning. I've done shorter days, had others feed, taken kittens with me etc etc. It's all workable, but difficult.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

@MissRhein when you have a moment, may we have an update please, With Photos!!!!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Hi lovely people 

I’m so sorry for lack of updates! It’s been manic. They were 6 weeks on Sunday gone  

Kittens are doing FAB - all weaning and litter trained.

All very friendly - Vinny a bit more timid, but I’m loving on him extra. Mum is still fabulous.
They’ve been wormed, but still not able to get vaccs and spays/neutered - unless vets decided otherwise with most recent guidance.

I’ll post individual pictures in next few days.

Bella’s ‘bum eye’ has gone with regular camomile tea wipes. They’re gorgeous little things and I’ll be sad to see them go next month *cries*


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I should add - we removed the kitten panels.. they could scale them within 7 days of getting it haha. We’ve used them around the sofa to stop them getting underneath... we’ve kept the pads so we can (pet-safe!) disinfect the area as the whole room is carpeted - we feed on one side and litter on other (far apart) as they’re messy things too haha. 

God I love them.. so tempted to tell prospective owners I just wanna keep them all haha.. but realistically we can’t. Couldn’t afford insurance for five - plus food and litter etc.. if I could I would though. Sweet little darlings.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Check with your vet about vaccinations. I've had to book mine 3 weeks in advance and they're being done in two groups on separate days but at least they will be done on schedule.


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

MissRhein said:


> I should add - we removed the kitten panels.. they could scale them within 7 days of getting it haha. We've used them around the sofa to stop them getting underneath... we've kept the pads so we can (pet-safe!) disinfect the area as the whole room is carpeted - we feed on one side and litter on other (far apart) as they're messy things too haha.
> 
> God I love them.. so tempted to tell prospective owners I just wanna keep them all haha.. but realistically we can't. Couldn't afford insurance for five - plus food and litter etc.. if I could I would though. Sweet little darlings.


I thought your original plan was to keep one???


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Yes, do check with your vets as well as other vets in the area - the recommendation is to do kitten vaccs


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Hah, sweet little darlings until they hit about 11 weeks! Then someone normally sneaks in overnight and injects them all with zoomy juice, sticks an everlasting duracel battery up their bums, then sneaks out again, all the while laughing at your "aren't they sweet?" pronouncement. I love my bubs with all of my heart, but the last few weeks are just chaos... Generally poorly controlled chaos. Imagine each of your kittens is a roudy teenager on too much energy drink, who's decided to invite his mates over for a good ole house trashin party... Then multiply this for 24 hours a day for a few weeks. It's insane... Insanely lovely, but absolutely insane. I cry buckets when each of them goes. I want to ring the new owners straight away and demand the kitten back... But secretly, I also enjoy the rest!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

SbanR said:


> I thought your original plan was to keep one???


We too-ed and fro-ed, uum-ed and aaah-ed BUT decided it was probably best to just get good homes, ensure Tara and kits were 'done' - as Tara and our other cat haven't had contact for months now... so we have to reintroduce those two in a fortnight or so..

I think with 4 children, we're just a two cat family,. We just want happy cats and I didn't want to upset the dynamic. They've been way more hard work than I'd anticipated - worth it, but I don't want to do it again..


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

I just want to thank everyone for invaluable support and advice too - would’ve been much harder without. Thank you to those who’ve taken the time to private message with me too - it was so much appreciated.


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Hi guys, long time no speak... the kittens have gone to their new homes  Bella and Lottie went together and Vinny went to a him only household. 

Tara is booked in for her spay next week!

AND!!!!

I’m getting a new kitten in 10-12 weeks - born yesterday at 9:45pm!!! It’s a white moggy - I suspect boy. I’ve always wanted a white cat


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

Picture of new kit with mum think (assuming definitely boy!) I’m going to call him Toby


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@MisRhein - what beautiful kittens! You did a very good job raising them,  

I love tabbies and would have been tempted to keep all 3 of them, though Tara may not have liked it if you had!


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

chillminx said:


> @MisRhein - what beautiful kittens! You did a very good job raising them,
> 
> I love tabbies and would have been tempted to keep all 3 of them, though Tara may not have liked it if you had!


Thanks so much  I really did try my best - and so pleased I found them great homes! I don't think Tara would've thanked me *at all* - she was thoroughly sick by the end!

she and Other Cat reintroduced fab though - back to normal fairly quickly. She cried for them for a few days and straight back into call (DEFFO didn't get out ha!)...


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## MissRhein (Mar 8, 2020)

chillminx said:


> @MisRhein - what beautiful kittens! You did a very good job raising them,
> 
> I love tabbies and would have been tempted to keep all 3 of them, though Tara may not have liked it if you had!


...and actually I did nada really - besides the mucking out!!! Tara was such a fabulous, attentive mum - though ruled with an iron rod haha


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

Oh, what beautiful kittens they have grown into! I absolutely adore tabbies. x Thank you for caring.


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