# Sticky  To all those with dogs who lack attention, or are obsessed with other dogs



## Colliepoodle

... Just a little encouraging post. This is difficult to write without sounding boasty or condescending so please be assured that it isn't meant to be either.

My girl is 11 months and I got her originally to hopefully compete at Obedience with. She is very bright and I'm very happy with her training in the class situation but she has ALWAYS been VERY interested in other dogs. Much as she loves her ball and tuggy, if there was another dog on the horizon I didn't have a hope.

She's not long had her first season and although I know some people still take their bitches out, I didn't want to take the chance so I kept her in for the requisite 3 weeks. I did LOADS more with her around the house and garden though, more training, more playing and it's really paid off.

She is more focussed on me and although still enjoys playing with other dogs, the obsession has gone. She is just as interested in me as she is other dogs now. But it HAS been hard work. I always take loads of yummy treats out, and randomly treat her just for coming back to me, even if I haven't called her. I surprise her by producing her ball at times, and chucking it in random directions (I am very good at throwing in random directions - I throw like a girl and it never goes where I want it to anyway lol).

I just wanted to assure those who are a bit despondent and losing heart (I did, on and off!) that training techniques DO work. But they don't always work quickly, and you have to keep them up, and sometimes it seems you are going backwards, but then suddenly it's like a lightbulb goes on and overnight, your dog WILL make a huge leap forward in their training and it's all worthwhile.

I also think, from observing my dog, that although "he'll grow out of it" is NOT often true of many behaviours, sometimes they DO just need to grow up a bit - adolescence in a dog is every bit as trying as it is in a human and as long as you can ride the storm and still be consistent, even though they try your patience, it will pay dividends :thumbsup:


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## Bobbie

Thanks for that I do know we all get down when our dog seems to be a pain., and there is no one to give us a pat on the back when we get it right.


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## sullivan

Bobbie said:


> Thanks for that I do know we all get down when our dog seems to be a pain., and there is no one to give us a pat on the back when we get it right.


No pain is no gain right. I feel as they grow up a bit from puppy stage they do generally grow out of most behaviour problems. If your lucky.


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## gillieworm

Thanks for the encouraging post. You must be so pleased with the progress your girl has made 

I have been doing the Good Citizens with both of mine, my 20 month old boy is in the gold class, and my 6 month old girl is doing her bronze test on Saturday . Both of mine have had consistant training from being with us at 8 weeks old and have attended training classes weekly from the time they had all of their jabs, and I agree it doesn't happen over night, it does take time and bloody hard work, and you do have days where you pull your hair out and wonder why the hell you bother :mad5: but it really does pay off. I also do think that maturity does play a part. My boy was a complete handfull as a pup, but since about the age of 15 months old its as though he has really grown up and lost the puppy excitement which makes him more more responsive in training


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## canuckjill

Thank you all for this encouraging post....Jill


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## Guest

Thanks Colliepoodle that post has really given me hope!!!

I've bought a nice new tug toy today (Zach loves tug) which I'm going to save only when we are out together. For the few couple of weeks I'm going to take him to a quiet field and play tonnes of tug with him and carry on with the usual training. Hopefully that will help him to see I'm just as much fun than other dogs!

We are also starting agility next week so (fingers crossed) that too should help him bond a little more with me and focus more on me on the walks


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## gillieworm

louise5031 said:


> We are also starting agility next week so (fingers crossed) that too should help him bond a little more with me and focus more on me on the walks


Thats great Louise, should definitely help build your bond. I find the same has happened with me with the obediance classes, its an especially good feeling when it becomes obvious you are favourite over your OH 

Let us know how the agility goes on, I am thinking of going with Logan after he passes his gold because I don't think he is competitive obediance material, but I definitely want to carry on doing something with him. Only thing is we have had a few agility things in class occassionally and the little wimp seems to be scared of the stuff


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## Guest

gillieworm said:


> Thats great Louise, should definitely help build your bond. I find the same has happened with me with the obediance classes, its an especially good feeling when it becomes obvious you are favourite over your OH
> 
> Let us know how the agility goes on, I am thinking of going with Logan after he passes his gold because I don't think he is competitive obediance material, but I definitely want to carry on doing something with him. Only thing is we have had a few agility things in class occassionally and the little wimp seems to be scared of the stuff


LOL I would so love it if I was the favourite!! Unfortunately at the min I'm just the mug that feeds him, walks him and keeps him company throughout the day, the OH is the exciting parent that comes in at tea time to play 

I dunno how we're gonna get on lol you know Zach he'll prob run riot as always, I have a feeling that he will enjoy it once he gets the hang of it though but like your Logan he can be a bit of a wimp at times!! Bless em!!


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## Colliepoodle

I've had another bit of a breakthrough this afternoon - we met a bloke on our walk who had a frisbee and Boo went MAD for it. I am kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier because the thing she loves to chase above all other things is birds - well the closest thing to a bird, toy-wise is a frisbee because they are in the air for much longer than a ball.

She was ignoring other dogs completely in favour of the frisbee.

I just need to learn to throw the bloody thing as far as the bloke could 

Off to PAH before it closes to buy some


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## Jenny Olley

Sounds like things are going well, have you started competing yet ?


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## Nina

What a lovely post. Should be more just like this one


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## 6660carrie

louise5031 said:


> LOL I would so love it if I was the favourite!! Unfortunately at the min I'm just the mug that feeds him, walks him and keeps him company throughout the day, the OH is the exciting parent that comes in at tea time to play
> 
> I dunno how we're gonna get on lol you know Zach he'll prob run riot as always, I have a feeling that he will enjoy it once he gets the hang of it though but like your Logan he can be a bit of a wimp at times!! Bless em!!


Oh god I can sooo relate to this! My OH does absolutely no training, lets him wander all over the place when he occasionally walks him and basically lets him run riot!! Because he always sits with him in the evenings he says its because I'm too strict with him and he loves him more!! Sometimes I think I'm fighting a losing battle.


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## Colliepoodle

Jenny Olley said:


> Sounds like things are going well, have you started competing yet ?


Not yet. I want to go to some shows just as a spectator early next year and maybe do a bit of training around the ringside, to let her get used to working in completely new and different environments, and then maybe next summer start having a bash at actually (gulp) going in the ring....


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## Jenny Olley

Colliepoodle said:


> Not yet. I want to go to some shows just as a spectator early next year and maybe do a bit of training around the ringside, to let her get used to working in completely new and different environments, and then maybe next summer start having a bash at actually (gulp) going in the ring....


I'm sure you'll enjoy it, i entered a few obedience comps with my dog before she was old enough to enter working trials, i liked it, and most shows take place in the summer, a bonus, working trials takes place all year round, so sometimes the weather is appauling, I'm competing on Friday at Lincoln.


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## fun4fido

Colliepoodle said:


> I've had another bit of a breakthrough this afternoon - we met a bloke on our walk who had a frisbee and Boo went MAD for it. I am kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier because the thing she loves to chase above all other things is birds - well the closest thing to a bird, toy-wise is a frisbee because they are in the air for much longer than a ball.
> 
> She was ignoring other dogs completely in favour of the frisbee.
> 
> I just need to learn to throw the bloody thing as far as the bloke could
> 
> Off to PAH before it closes to buy some


My boy is crazy for frisbee, he does love ALL other dogs, but as soon as he sees his frisbee he's 100% focused and just gives me a look that says "throw the damn thing already" :laugh:


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## LittleMissSunshine

Fancy spending 3 weeks with Poppy??? No, she's great most of the time, I'd love to get her into flyball at some point, think she'd love it but she is a little too distracted at the moment. She's going in tomorrow to be neutered, so we'll get over that first!! She'd much rather go sniff someone or a dog than chase a ball a lot of the time!!
Thank You for the encouragement!!


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## kittysoo

what an inspirational thread. With my 3 youngsters - l am the one lacking the motivation to keep trying. Other stuff gets in the way.
I also wanted to do the good citizen dog but dropped out after family problems and never got back into it. Now l have 3 bouncy excitable, weeing pooing mutts that drive my husband mad. He is at home with them all day as he is retired - l work in the afternoons and occasionally have to do all day. I am the only dog walker too.
The mutts are continously together and if you try and take one away for training - its literally the end of the world.

I have,nt given up on them or myself - just think we are a very slow work in progress.:


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## Katyptaty

Great to hear things are going so well, CP!! :cornut: I too have had great success with my rescue 10 month old lab (now 18 months ALREADY!!). Not trained, no, I'll change that... trained to be naughty!! He'd run off after anything - dogs, cyclists, rabbits, joggers etc. We just weren't interesting enough for his adolescent lab brain despite doing lots of playing in the house, taking him everywhere, routine, doing a touch of agility and some training classes (but not many, cos the issue was a bonding one) etc. 

He got progressively better over the months and we got really good at reading situations, i.e. if someone was approaching, get hold of either him or get his attention with food/toy/stick. Started to work really well. He started coming out for rides with me and cos I would turn round and canter off if he didn't listen, he started to listen  It helped a lot for our walks when he was naughtier.

Lots of keeping him close, lots of play in the house, lots of praise for the good behaviour, ignoring the bad and then finding 'the perfect toy' which is a rubber ball that boings all over the place.

In the last 2 months it suddenly clicked... WE are now the most important things in his life :001_tt1: He ignores other dogs now, they are just 'in the way' cos mum is going to throw his ball. He'll walk to heel past anything, no lead, just cos I'm holding the ball. 

... and I've got his full attention at the stables cos inbetween each chore I throw the ball for him. He now sticks to me like a limpet, just in case 

He still occasionally reverts to puppy behaviour (eating shoes, nicking stuff, going lalalalalala) but god, it's SO much better!! So yes.... with time they can get better, but I do think this needs to be accompanied with consistent training. 

Well done. I hope the frisbee theory works!! after a few weeks of having the best time ever she won't think about leaving your side  (and best wishes for those still going through the 'nightmare patch'... it's draining!!!!)


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## Katyptaty

actually, take a look at my past posts (cos I've not been on for a while) and yo'll get the measure of how crap it all was :lol:


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## GFB

I have moved my message to a more appropriate thread - thank you.


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## james1

Colliepoodle said:


> I've had another bit of a breakthrough this afternoon - we met a bloke on our walk who had a frisbee and Boo went MAD for it. I am kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier because the thing she loves to chase above all other things is birds - well the closest thing to a bird, toy-wise is a frisbee because they are in the air for much longer than a ball.
> 
> She was ignoring other dogs completely in favour of the frisbee.
> 
> I just need to learn to throw the bloody thing as far as the bloke could
> 
> Off to PAH before it closes to buy some


I was going to mention this from your first post - you need to be careful that she doesnt see other dogs toys as hers too - what with allowing her to fetch every ball your throw the dog may learn that anything thrown is fair game to get. You may need to back off on this, a leave command is very good. Their attention is buit up by them waiting to be sent for that what your throwing i.e. remembering where it is and still having the obedience to go and get it after say a 2 minute wait or so, this will also stop them running off to other dogs.

Whilst you would have her attention with a ball as soon as you dont have one she will be away to the nearest thing with one, potentially leading to trouble. Its difficult as balls do keep their attention, however, it has to be thrown on your terms and not the dogs in demanding to be played with that keeps them close.


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## leashedForLife

i know that this is not a new-thread... but it has some GREAT stuff in it! :001_tt1: 
lots of hints, what worked for us, etc. 
could this possibly be made a sticky? :huh: maybe? please...  

thanks, 
--- terry


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## Colliepoodle

Oooh!! I am sticky!! I am inordinately pleased! :biggrin:

I remember starting this thread, genuinely to - hopefully - give a boost to anyone who, like I was at times, was despairing that their dog would ever find them as interesting as other dogs/the environment/a pile of fox poo.

Starting a new class tonight - really excited. Our usual class is 45 minutes away and right in the middle of the day which can be a pain but I've found one 10 mins away, all positive, no rattle cans/spray bottles, choke/electric collars etc allowed. Clickers/treats/toys encouraged. It starts at 9.15 which is great because even if the OH works late I can still make it. Hopefully it will give me the kick up the @rse I need to enter some more shows because I've got very lazy lately :blush:


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## CarolineH

Your dog is lucky to have such a patient and committed owner as her friend Colliepoodle and this is a great thread, no idea how I have missed it before!


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## Colliepoodle

Aww, fanks Caroline :blush:


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## leashedForLife

Colliepoodle said:


> Starting a new class tonight... [snip]...
> I've found one 10 mins away, all positive, no rattle cans/spray bottles, choke/electric collars etc allowed. Clickers/treats/toys encouraged. It starts at 9.15 which is great... even if the OH works late I can still make it.


_oh, U lucky dog, U... _ and of course, Ur lucky dog, too, :lol: 
i can only WISH there was a pos-R class within 10-minutes, but boy i Do Wish... 
wheres that first star, :lol:... (only 3:15 here, i shall have to wait for stars...)

have a wonderful time, and tell us about it! :001_tt1: i can enjoy it vicariously :001_tt2: 
cheers, 
--- terry


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## Colliepoodle

Another thing, for dogs that aren't THAT fussed about playing tuggie...


If your dog is having a "funny five minutes" and going bonkers for no apparent reason - get the tuggie out and encourage them to play. Because they are in a silly, playful mood anyway, chances are that they'll be keener. Do this enough, and they will end up associating the sight of the tuggie with excitement - even if they didn't before. They become easier to "turn on".


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## Colliepoodle

leashedForLife said:


> _oh, U lucky dog, U... _ and of course, Ur lucky dog, too, :lol:
> i can only WISH there was a pos-R class within 10-minutes, but boy i Do Wish...
> wheres that first star, :lol:... (only 3:15 here, i shall have to wait for stars...)
> 
> have a wonderful time, and tell us about it! :001_tt1: i can enjoy it vicariously :001_tt2:
> cheers,
> --- terry


Will let you know how it goes! I'm reaaaaaally looking forward to it. The bloke running the classes does "ordinary" ones too - the usual puppy/clicker/beginner/intermediate etc, "tonight we are working on xyz" ones, but this one is slightly different. He calls it "assisted learning" and basically you do what you want. Trainers are there to help if you need them to, but the idea is that you work on what you want to work on, with the added distraction of other dogs. It's exactly what I was looking for and I'm thrilled there's one so near. I mailed the bloke to ask roughly how the class pans out, so I know what to expect, and he replied saying basically "No idea - it's the first one of this kind I've done and although there has been interest, you're the first confirmed attendee so you might end up with the hall to yourself!" LOL!

And it's the last class of the night, so if you need to over run a bit, that's OK.

Hoping it's as good as it sounds!


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## leashedForLife

Colliepoodle said:


> ...this one is slightly different.
> He calls it "assisted learning" and basically you do what you want. Trainers are there to help if you need them to, but the idea is that you work on what you want to work on, with the added distraction of other dogs. It's exactly what I was looking for and I'm thrilled there's one so near. I mailed the bloke to ask roughly how the class pans out... he (said) basically "No idea - *it's the first one of this kind I've done and although there has been interest, you're the first confirmed attendee* so you might end up with the hall to yourself!" LOL!


gracious, U won the lottery! :001_tt1: i have never heard of a class like it, but it sounds great for folks who just need to work around other dogs... to proof, habituate, distract, whatever. 
heck, U could be a beginning clicker-nik with a 10-WO pup, or an agility-competitor with a distractable dog, and BOTH could profit from this - plus the attendees get to watch somebody doing Other Stuff, not a carbon copy of What We Are Doing.

how cool... getting to test-drive a new class agenda. ooohhhh, am i green, :lol: 
i am almost as excited as if i were going, :laugh: is that pathetic?! :lol: 
sorry, dog-stuff... i;m addicted. 

can;t wait to hear... i;m thrilled for ya! 
--- terry


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## Colliepoodle

> sorry, dog stuff, I'm addicted


I know exactly what you mean LOL! If anyone ever mentions a dog in even the most fleeting way, my ears prick up :biggrin:

I'm currently trying to persuade my friend to let me teach her dog some stuff. It's the MOST adorable little JRT/Yorkie cross. Think a tiny, JRT shaped, sandy-coloured, spring-mounted ball of energy. Every time I go round I say "Please let me bring my clicker round and teach her some tricks" and she goes  at me.

I'll talk her round in the end if it kills me :biggrin:


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## Colliepoodle

I'm baaaack!

It was good. I was indeed the only one there though  The trainer was very nice though - I offered to go home (felt bad about him paying for the hall for just me) but he said he pays the same regardless of whether he hires it all evening or for an hour, so I stayed. Just did bits and bobs, getting Boo used to the hall and keeping it fun. Chatted dogs, as you do 

Boo's such a funny old stick though - halfway through, a lady walked in to have a word with him. Ever so nice and smiley and friendly. Boo usually loves everyone, but she took one look at the lady and hid under a chair 

Unheard of!! According to the trainer though, the lady is Not A Dog Person so maybe Boo knew. Maybe the lady is a serial killer on the quiet!!


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## leashedForLife

Colliepoodle said:


> [snip]...
> Boo's such a funny old stick though - halfway through, a lady walked in to have a word with (the instructor). Ever so nice and smiley and friendly. Boo usually loves everyone, but *she took one look at the lady and hid under a chair*
> 
> Unheard of!! According to the trainer though, the lady is Not A Dog Person so maybe Boo knew. Maybe the lady is a serial killer on the quiet!!


awww, too bad U were It... maybe someone will join over the week?

besides, just having access to a large indoor space designed for dogs is GREAT... 
with or without other dogs + handlers.  here it is hard to find any space for indoor classes - 
despite the muggy heat, spring summer + fall, and the short soggy COLD winters + early-springs, 
for some bizarre reason, dogs are persona-non-grata indoors. :blush2: weird. 

i am SO tired of mosquitoes, fleas, stinging-ants, heat, cold, rain, wind... 
jeez. outdoor classes CAN be great - but the weather has to be somewhat co-operative. 

i hope the lady just wore the wrong perfume, or summat... :lol: 
cheers, 
--- terry


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## squirrel-whisperer

Thankyou for posting this - I found it very encouraging at a time when it feels like my little dog will never not turn deaf and bolt towards the horizon at the sight of another dog!

Kate


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## canvasdomain.co.uk

fun4fido said:


> My boy is crazy for frisbee, he does love ALL other dogs, but as soon as he sees his frisbee he's 100% focused and just gives me a look that says "throw the damn thing already" :laugh:


Thanks for the ideas think I will try a frisbee my 11 month dog loves other dogs also and when we out walking he is great til he sees another dog and he will pull hard on the lead or if he off lead he will run over to dog and compleley ignore me. Any other ideas gratefully recieved.


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## Daggre

In response, our dog is 10 months and we are delighted she's stopped running off! This is with people, before, if there was a dog-less person she'd run after them anyway, now she ignores them! it's ahuge step and reassuring for us, today we saw some people with about 5 dogs, and instead of charging up jumping about,Star wentover, and lay down until the dogs got to her! Then she just sniffed around with them. I Am Thrilled!!!

She was so calm earlier, we were in a field with some lambs who were pretty coinfident, corwding around us, they let us stroke them, although they wouldn't go near Star, but one was really confident, and we'd made her sit so he came to have a look...and then , they touched noses! itwas an amazing moment, andwe got a picture (which i willput up later) They were sniffing each other and it was soooooo cute.


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## tippi

Hi

Hoping for some advice. I'm an experienced dog owner (first dog lived to 15 and second who I got immediately after is now 7). I've just found and hope to keep another dog who I guess is about one.

He's really more or less perfect BUT he loves other dogs. This isn't a problem usually but I like to walk him off the lead and I know a lot of dog owners and he runs and plays with their dogs. Unfortunately, if he spots another dog who is on the lead he runs off to try and play and won't come back. Obviously some dogs are on a lead for a reason and its really spoiling our walks having to watch for dogs on leads and put him back on his.

I've never had this problem with my other two - they both just seemed to come back when called.

BTW He's my first male dog and he's unneutered as yet - my others have been speyed bitches.

Any advice on training techniques would be much appreciated (there are no training classes within my area that I'm aware of).

Thanks 

Karen


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## Daggre

Karen- I think all youngsters do that, the trick is to make yourself more interesting then the other dog, Star is a year oldtoo, and although she's much calmer when she does run off, she wills till run off to other dogs, yes, i think in part they do 'growout of it' but also, practicing and practicingrecall is a good idea, when we are alone I constantly call Star back and give lots of praise/reward. I have also taught her long distance sit, which is morereliable then her recall, though when she runsofffor another dog...it's irrelevant.

You could try a long line when you see another dog, and when your dog runs to the end of the leash, call/ coax him back, then if he does come you could see ifyou could go and let him say hello to the other dog. therefore:

coming back=seeing the other dog.

You could also try making your dog sit whenever you see another dog (obviously you'll have to start on the lead) but if he started to do this automaticallyyou could then progress toofflead which would mean when he sat you could clip the leadon...not sure if this would work never having tried it.


Good Luck.

there are people which much more useful info on here I'm sure!


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## CarolineH

tippi said:


> Any advice on training techniques would be much appreciated (there are no training classes within my area that I'm aware of).


Hi Karen. Daggre has given you good advice already but in addition to that, you will see on this link that there are three trainers in the Leeds area.  http://www.apdt.co.uk/trainers_area.asp?area=Yorkshire - West


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## leashedForLife

hey, karen! :--)

as hes approx a year-old, i;d make that desex appt; he does not need them, and testes are not helpful, overall, in the behavioral-dept.



tippi said:


> He's really more or less perfect BUT he loves other dogs. This isn't a problem usually but I like to walk him off the lead and I know a lot of dog owners and he runs and plays with their dogs. Unfortunately, if he spots another dog who is on the lead he runs off to try and play and won't come back. Obviously some dogs are on a lead for a reason and its really spoiling our walks having to watch for dogs on leads and put him back on his.


i second the DRAG-line suggestion - he cannot be allowed to rehearse ignoring a cue to recall, so thats No. 1. 
get him on a drag, call ONCE while there are no dogs about, if he comes to U, reward heavily - activity may be even 
better than a treat, a short exciting tug-game might really thrill him. 
after his successful return on cue, Turn Him Loose after that reward... 
he needs to learn that COME does not always = *put back on leash + stuck with Slow-Poke.  this is boring... *

if U call him once + he does Not come to U... _go and get him._ 
do not make it angry, don;t stomp + don;t look ugly; be casual, just walk up on him, STEP on the long-line, then pick it up, 
and do NOT let him run free again; thats the punishment - *i don;t come when called? 
i can only run on the long-line...  * he will quickly learn this is a consequence, and its avoidable - 
if he DOES come when called, he goes free again. :thumbup:

the only exception to Turn him loose again is if theres actually an on-leash dog - in which case, keep his time 
on-leash as happily engaged with U as possible, so he forgets he is stuck with U and another *dog* is nearby, wah-ha!... 
keep him so busy + interested he forgets about the un-met dog over there - 
if possible, ADD more distance between the 2 of U + that un-explored dog. 
(jogging away together while U wiggle a tug-toy enticingly, etc...)

another good option: 
_*call him before he sees another Off-leash Dog... 
and when he comes REWARD him handsomely, then release him to play with the off-leash dog. *_ 
again, he is being rewarded twice - 
* a treat, tug-game, praise, etc 
* released to meet the off-leash dog

practice, practice, practice recall - and it must ALWAYS be rewarded. 
that means *never call the dog for something he does not want* -- like a bath, nail-trim, vet-trip... 
*for anything the dog does not like, Go And Get Him - no exceptions.* 
thats why its so important that recall on walks be frequently *released* once he has been rewarded - 
he gets 2 rewards, one for coming to U when called, and the 2nd simply being allowed to run free again.

for extensive proofing, built right into training-lessons, see 
Levels.html

happy training, 
--- terry


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## tippi

Many thanks for those two replies. It makes sense. 

I had been thinking I was giving him the wrong idea about the lead being a punishment but couldn't think of practical ways to show that it isn't (human instinct just makes you call him and put him on his lead). Going to go for his walk in a couple of minutes and it should be nice and quite at this time and will do a couple of minutes of call and reward. 

It also makes sense that I don't use his name to call him for thinks he doesn't like where poss and go a get him. Said his name a couple of times very positively this morning when I fed him .

I think its me that needs the training tho not him!

Thanks again

Karen


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## harriemac

Thank you for the encouraging post I have a young beagle and feel like giving up on a regular basis when he just sprints off after another dog and no amount of calling or indicating that I have a tasty treat makes any difference..meanwhile all around there are plenty of smug-looking judgemental owners of breeds that naturally stay close or learn quickly to come when called - or so it seems at the time when I've been trying to get him back for ages and feel like crying. By the way, this same darling dog is brilliant on the lead and round the house..and learns tricks like a dream. But the recall is driving me insane.:eek6:


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## leashedForLife

harriemac said:


> I have a young beagle and feel like giving up on a regular basis when he just sprints off after another dog and no amount of calling... makes any difference... [snip]...
> BTW, this same darling dog is brilliant on the lead and round the house..and learns tricks like a dream.
> But the recall is driving me insane. :eek6:


*long line. *:thumbsup: as a leash, and As A Drag... 
when he fails to come in, on ONE cue, walk him down casually, tread on the drag, bend + pick it up, 
and bring him in to 6 to 8-ft maximum; *once he learns not coming when called = short-lined + supervised 
his recall should improve - *but he needs a consistent *consequence* to figure it out.

happy B-Mod, 
--- terry

PS - 
building an insane-obsession with ONE special interactive tug-toy is another option - 
it has to be interactive-only, never trophied, not for chewing, no free access.


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## Elisia

My boyfriend and his family have owned Zack for around 2 months now. He was a rescue dog from leigh cats and dogs home and is 18 months old, from a pool of estimates we guess hes a lurcher of some description? Any how when he is taken for a walk and let off the lead he does one of or all of 3 things:

1- run off to play with other dogs.
2- refuse to come back even for treats.
3- refuse to listen to calls or commands and force us to run around after him!

Please please help, as Zack is quite large and intimidating to other smaller dogs and children and we feel we cannot take him to anywhere where there is people.


----------



## leashedForLife

Elisia said:


> ...when he is... *let off the lead he does one or all of 3 things:*
> 
> 1- run off to play with other dogs.
> 2- refuse to come back even for treats.
> 3- refuse to listen to calls or commands and force us to run around after him!


i have 3 suggestions: 
long-line, long-line, long-line... 

held in ones hand OUTside of a fence, and worn as a drag-line INside of a fence... 
meanwhile, i would go to ** Levels.html **

U can test WHERE his understanding of basic-behaviors is right now, and build his cued-behaviors 
and proof him slowly as U add distractions; _there are no short-cuts to an OFF-leash recall WITH distractions,_ 
it is post-grad-school level behavior - IOW the k9-equivalent of graduate-school for a doctoral candidate, 
and from the sound of it, this fella has not been thru elementary-school yet, poor neglected boy, 
ignurrant as a rock -- :nonod: but don;t worry, he can get there! :thumbup: practice, practice, practice...

happy training, 
--- terry


----------



## Elisia

With a long line is it possible to use one with a halty? Only Zack can't be walked with a normal collar and lead ... chokes himself whilst pulling :/


----------



## MerlinsMum

Elisia said:


> With a long line is it possible to use one with a halty? Only Zack can't be walked with a normal collar and lead ... chokes himself whilst pulling :/


No! - it could cause issues or injury to his neck if it were a sudden stop when you tread on the line or pull him back. For the same reason it's not great to use them with a normal collar either. Long lines are best used with a harness.


----------



## tippi

Hi everyone

Hi everyone

Just an update. Can't believe how well it's going, he's not perfect yet but this morning he went up to another dog started playing and I called his name and he came back mid-play (I made a fuss of him and sent him back to play).

I've made a point of just using his name for pleasureable things as advised (ie feeding and playing) and not used his name when grooming etc (which he doesn't like very much at all).

While he's been on the extending lead, if he comes back straight away when called I fuss him and extend it straight back out but if he doesn't I pull it in (only for a few minutes) but it seems to be doing the trick.

Still got a bit of work to do with dogs he doesn't know that are on leads but I'm very pleased with his progress (not had him three weeks yet and he was a stray and fully grown).


----------



## kdlang

Recall training is one of the things I have never really been successful with due to the lack of secure areas to practise in. The tips here have been really helpful. However I do have a query. Whenever I have tried to use a long line in the past both myself and the dog have become frustrated by the amount of times he gets tangled up in it. Plus i can't seem to reel it in quickly enough. How do I avoid this problem so we can train safely. I have been using flexi leads but i don't really like them due to the jerk as they reach the limit.


----------



## leashedForLife

kdlang said:


> ...Whenever I have tried to use a long line... both myself and the dog [were] frustrated by [frequent tangles around the dog]. Plus i can't seem to reel it in quickly enough.


hey, lang! :--)

i would practice handling the dog using only half the length till U get better at line-control; so if its a 20-ft lead, use 10 for a week or so, if it's 30-ft use just 15.

bringing in a line neatly + coiling it fast is best done by taking BIGHTS, approx equal-lengths of line by reaching out, pick-up with one hand, + coil into the other hand, looping it into a neat hanging-coil. 
try it without the dog - a balcony or deck are good, just dangle it over the side + practice retrieving + coiling it.

U will never be able to coil the long-line as fast as the dog is coming in - *NOT letting the line sag between U, or drag along the ground in loops as the dog meanders*, but keeping it *live* between U and the dog, is a huge saving-grace, as then U only have the length between U to bring-in, not the entire sagging, rolling, twisted mess, LOL.

i grew-up with horses and had lunge-line experience before i ever had a dog on a long-line, and it really, really helped. 
 time + practice are my best suggestions.

[i also despise extendable-leads - 
they teach + reward pulling, are downright dangerous if the hardware or collar-parts fail, are hazards to pedestrians + other dogs, 
overturn objects, cut + burn bark on shrubs, etc - 
dreadful things, much more trouble than they are worth. :thumbdown:]

happy training, 
--- terry


----------



## kdlang

Thanks Terry. Will certainly get practising before I am able to take this latest little one out. I am determined I will crack recall with one of them.


----------



## Tournisol

Just read the posts on dogs and recall. Our Boo is a 7month old springer and comes back when there are no birds and other dogs. She does come back sometimes with other dogs but not a guarantee. So reading the other threads is giving me hope, and on our next walk I am going to take the frisbee and see if it works for us. She isn't toy orientated on walks and not particularly interested in balls or tugees but the frisbee may work. Do you think I should stick feathers on it? Ha Ha
Tournisol


----------



## Colliepoodle

Tournisol said:


> Just read the posts on dogs and recall. Our Boo is a 7month old springer and comes back when there are no birds and other dogs. She does come back sometimes with other dogs but not a guarantee. So reading the other threads is giving me hope, and on our next walk I am going to take the frisbee and see if it works for us. She isn't toy orientated on walks and not particularly interested in balls or tugees but the frisbee may work. Do you think I should stick feathers on it? Ha Ha
> Tournisol


I've ditched the frisbee now - I'm hopeless at throwing it and my Boo has got progressively keener on her tuggie, which is superior inasmuch as it's a more interactive toy. When she brings it back she gets a game, which makes her keener.

She adores birds too - the seagulls on the local field were her Mostest Favouritest Thing ever. I worked on it (and still work on it all the time) by starting out a good distance away - close enough for her to notice them, but not so close that she was tempted to chase. When she was just at the ears pricked, "Ooh, birds!" stage, I got her attention by whooping it up with her tuggie myself, until the sight of the birds triggered not a "Ooh, birds!" thought, but a "Ooh, birds - time to play with tuggie with Mum!" one. The birds became a predictor of a game with me.

Gradually I got closer and closer...

The same principle applies to the instant "Down" - I got it reliable with no distractions, then gradually worked up to being closer and closer to the flock of birds (if anyone needs to work with birds as a distraction, I can recommend my local field - it's like a Hitchcock film some mornings).

Now, having birds around means, to her, that I might a) Be up for a game or b) Might well ask her to "Down" at any time.

I also make sure I do ALLOW her to chase them, sometimes. Usually as a reward for a good recall first, but sometimes as a special treat when she's done really good heelwork or whatever. In other words, getting to chase the birds is a reward for ignoring the birds!

You have to learn to read your dog really well though - knowing EXACTLY what distance is just right is the key, I think.

Also, I found that ONLY feeding your dog during training helps MASSIVELY. Mine has kibble, so she never gets it in a bowl any more. Even a not-particularly-food-orientated dog becomes FAR more interested if it only gets food from you, at training times. Food becomes a) More fun and exciting and b) Higher value.

Hope that all makes sense!


----------



## leashedForLife

Colliepoodle said:


> I've ditched the frisbee now - I'm hopeless at throwing it and my Boo has got progressively keener on her tuggie, which is superior inasmuch as it's a more interactive toy. When she brings it back she gets a game, which makes her keener.
> 
> She adores birds too - the seagulls on the local field were her Mostest Favouritest Thing ever. I worked on it (and still work on it all the time) by starting out a good distance away - close enough for her to notice them, but not so close that she was tempted to chase. When she was just at the ears pricked, "Ooh, birds!" stage, I got her attention by whooping it up with her tuggie myself, until the sight of the birds triggered not a "Ooh, birds!" thought, but a "Ooh, birds - time to play with tuggie with Mum!" one. The birds became a predictor of a game with me.
> 
> Gradually I got closer and closer...
> 
> The same principle applies to the instant "Down" - I got it reliable with no distractions, then gradually worked up to being closer and closer to the flock of birds (if anyone needs to work with birds as a distraction, I can recommend my local field - it's like a Hitchcock film some mornings).
> 
> Now, having birds around means, to her, that I might a) Be up for a game or b) Might well ask her to "Down" at any time.
> 
> I also make sure I do ALLOW her to chase them, sometimes. Usually as a reward for a good recall first, but sometimes as a special treat when she's done really good heelwork or whatever. In other words, getting to chase the birds is a reward for ignoring the birds!
> 
> You have to learn to read your dog really well though - knowing EXACTLY what distance is just right is the key, I think.
> 
> Also, I found that ONLY feeding your dog during training helps MASSIVELY. Mine has kibble, so she never gets it in a bowl any more. Even a not-particularly-food-orientated dog becomes FAR more interested if it only gets food from you, at training times. Food becomes a) More fun and exciting and b) Higher value.
> 
> Hope that all makes sense!


rep! :thumbup: gawjuss - simply GAW-geous!


----------



## bobbyw

Hi all, wonder if any of you might be able to offer me any advice. I have read through most of this thread with interest, but the problem I have is that my dog is not at all toy motivated, that I can work out.

My dog is a 7-8 year old rescue who has been in my family for a month now. He is a great chap but one of the problems I am having is that when he is on the lead he pulls like a runaway steam train to get to other dogs. He is definitely wanting to go play rather than anything else. If he is allowed to greet the dog they will sniff each other and move on, although my dog still wants to play. If he can't get to the dog he cries (he doesn't bark much at all, only at very loud bangs) and whines.

Does anyone know how I can start to deal with this? He is good with dogs and will play great, he also lived in a foster home for some time with dogs and in the house is a very chilled sleepy chap.

I worry about letting him off the lead due to him wanting to play with all dogs, not everyone will want him to play with them obviously. I have been practising with a long lead and he has been great at coming back, bar trying to get to dogs if he sees them. The rescue said he is great off the lead but until I know that he won't run to every other dog I don't want to let him off myself. He has been off lead once since I had him with a lady I met with 2 golden retrievers and he was awesome and stayed very close coming back all the time. He didn't go see any other dogs but not sure if that was because he already had playmates at the time.

Apologies for the essay, but any advice would be great. Also need to try and find some classes but have tried 2 so far and they have been horrified at his age and said it'll take forever to teach him anything!


----------



## leashedForLife

read post #52 - use food, including his own kibble with added stinky attractions left overnight [bagged] 
in the frig - cheese bits, tuna or chicken-breast or salmon, an eighth-inch cube is plenty - mix the goodies in, 
let it steep & the good smells saturate the kibble.

teach him to love an interactive toy: fetch or tug. Make it fun!


bobbyw said:


> ...need to try and find some classes but have tried 2 so far and they have been horrified
> at his age and said it'll take forever to teach him anything!


oh, bull!  adult-dogs have WAY longer attention spans than wee pups - they can learn anything, 
and often if they HAD any training which was not maintained, they learn it again in half the time!

i've taught senior dogs 10 and up, they do great - they're not as distractable.


----------



## bobbyw

Thank you leashed for life, I have been tying a small game of tug every day and I think he may be starting to get it but I really have to limit the time so that he doesn't get bored.

The cube I think is a good idea, I have tried it with his regular kibble before but clearly I need to make it a super treat with some fish type stuff. He has some allergies but I'm sure fish or chicken would go down well!

I was peeved that the classes were so dismissive, one even seemed 'off' with him being a cross breed. Thing is, I think he's pretty smart really. His sit stay is coming along really well, he knows down, he knows his bedtime routine better than his 'daddy' does and he is such a laid back chap at home.

If I could just work out how to stop him wanting to rush off to play with every dog he sees then he could have some great off lead fun. I just need to learn to speak dog.


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## Colliepoodle

Can I just echo what LFL said about older dogs being trainable?

I got my older dog when she was 7 and I introduced her to the clicker and she LOVES it. She learns very quickly and she's got a far better attention span than the average puppy. I taught her "beg", "Twist" and "Down" easily, and also taught her to chase and bring back a ball by shaping with a clicker; she didn't have a clue about balls/toys when I got her and isn't chasey at all.

She's 10 now and we're currently working on her scooting backwards away from me on cue. We've done about 3 X 15 minute sessions so far and she's at the stage where she'll respond to a hand cue by running back 5 or 6 steps.

Any training class that looks down on your dog because it's older/a crossbreed isn't worth going to. Have a look round and find one that welcomes everyone. I think my dog's the only crossbreed in the Competitive Obedience class I go to and nobody has EVER made us feel like lesser beings!


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## JoGards

It's true training pays off. 
Unfortunately my two collie girls have other ideas  
If I walk them individually the recall is triumphant 99% of the time BUT when they're together if one of them spots a dog and decides to ignore my cries of 'come here' the other one follows suit...cue two collies racing across the field! 

They are getting much better around livestock though; not reactive at all anymore, small mercies hey 

xx


----------



## RobD-BCactive

JoGards said:


> If I walk them individually the recall is triumphant 99% of the time BUT when they're together if one of them spots a dog and decides to ignore my cries of 'come here' the other one follows suit...cue two collies racing across the field!


Have you tried overcoming distractions by using premacking & functional rewards? So you spot a known dog & owner before they do, call them to you, then encourage them to race off together and greet?
You could also have them on line, until the situation crops up, nothing wrong with a set up either, if you can arrange it.

Nice explanation & videos of functional rewards at tripod's site Premack-ing for Calm | Pet Central's Pawsitive Dawgs Blog!

Another attention getter is super toys, you make extra high value to the dog and produce them when you need a bigger distraction, than the one they spotted, it's "management" but at least it stops the bolting off without your permission.


----------



## leashedForLife

JoGards said:


> ...my two collie girls have other ideas  If I walk them individually the recall is triumphant 99% of the time
> BUT when they're together if one of them spots a dog and decides to ignore my cries of 'come here'
> the other one follows suit... cue two collies racing across the field!


keep one on a long-line & the other off, turn & turn about. 
only one dog is free at any one time - making training much easier.

practice making COME TO ME predict 'go see that nice Floss, now...' 
see PREMACK as a search-term. :001_smile:


----------



## JoGards

Thanks guys, I will give that a go. One of their dog friends Mr D the boxer will be a good practice for premacking. 
Also I do have a lunging lead which I used to get them used to livestock so I'll keep going with that too.

Cheers for the advice


----------



## leashedForLife

JoGards said:


> One of their dog friends, Mr D the boxer, will be a good practice for premacking.


great! :thumbsup: a buddy-dog as a stooge is terrific.


----------



## factum

We have had dogs for 22 years, until we left, the latter was trained by professionals and is the best thing we did because the laws we have in the area


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## leashedForLife

the prior post is _*SPAM - *_ it's a hop-click LINK, which leads to a _Kingdom of Pets_ website, 
formerly known as "Sit-Stay-Fetch" & widely despised for spamming trainers' in-boxes - among them, mine. 

At the link: 


> ...*Secrets to Dog Training*'s powerful insider information, over 220,452 dog owners worldwide
> have been successful with their dog training, and solved their dog's behavior problems.
> 
> Who else wants their dog to be well behaved around people and other dogs?
> AND have them obey all of your house rules... ... even when you're not around!
> 
> If your answer is "Me!" then read on...


Dog training isn't a SECRET. It's simple: 
- prevent the behaviors U don't want. 
- reward the behaviors U *do* want.

Management is an essential part of owning dogs. 
Don't blame everything on the dog: the human is ultimately 
responsible for the dog's behavior, & claiming that the dog 
"is bad" is pointless: Either U didn't train, didn't proof this 
particular distraction, or failed to manage the dog.

Dog training or B-Mod take consistency & practice - :thumbup:
not "secrets", not "magic".

EDIT: Thanks to the mods for peeling that offensive spam-post. :thumbsup: U guys rock!


----------



## wizzie

Thanks so much for the words of hope!!! I do wonder at times if I am doing it all right, and WORRY if I am making matters worse, but to hear this just puts a smile back on my face!  THANK YOU!!


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## janopyne

Thank tou for that, I am a new member and have just posted on the introduction forum regarding a change in behaviour with my dog Milo. Eventhough I give him lots of attention and am quite strict with him, I need to do more with him in a positive way that he will enjoy; training games etc.


----------



## hahgiwoofa

THANK YOU!!!!!!! 

This thread has given me hope in a week when my patience and confidence is wearing pretty thin!!

I've had 9 dogs in the past, but Paddy is the first one from a puppy, he's now 8 months and is behaving exactly like my 12 yr old son!! No- that's not fair, in most things he's being good, it's just the not jumping up, and recall when off lead that I KNOW he can do but is stubbornly refusing!!

I'll keep persevering....


----------



## JoGards

hahgiwoofa said:


> THANK YOU!!!!!!!
> 
> This thread has given me hope in a week when my patience and confidence is wearing pretty thin!!
> 
> I've had 9 dogs in the past, but Paddy is the first one from a puppy, he's now 8 months and is behaving exactly like my 12 yr old son!! No- that's not fair, in most things he's being good, it's just the not jumping up, and recall when off lead that I KNOW he can do but is stubbornly refusing!!
> 
> I'll keep persevering....


Hi hahgiwoofa

Collie's can be at their most trying from 8-18 months of age. Both my collies were so trainable up to about 6 months and then they seemed to develop selective hearing LOL. However if you persevere with your training through the adolescent months you will have a wonderful dog at the end of it. My two are 3 and 4 now and they are such great dogs. And calm if you can believe it. I know collies are supposed to be hyper dogs but my two are so relaxed in the house, just pottering about whilst I work and then they use up all their energy on their walks.

Best of Luck with Paddy 

xx


----------



## hahgiwoofa

Thanks, to be fair he is a great dog already. I just think I may be expecting too much from him sometimes. He's the size of a small donkey & as such I think I sometimes forget he's still only a baby!

This forum is giving me so much help, so glad I joined!

Thanks again x


----------



## mjacyna

Oh this really does give me home...I have a 6 months old GSD x Husky puppy (you can see her on my profile picture) and she is insanely in love with all the dogs...we go for training classes with her but all she wants to do is play with other dogs, takes me ages to make her focus on me instead...
And on the walks...the minute a dog is nearby, she is gone, won't come back for food, squeaky toy (which is only given to her on walks, so is very very special). It's like she would be an addict! LOL

I hope she will calm down and grow out of it soon, because otherwise she is so sweet and really smart...I would love to do rally obedience or agility with her at some point! >.<


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## leashedForLife

mjacyna said:


> ...on walks, the minute a dog is nearby, *she is gone, won't come back for food, squeaky toy* (which is *only given to her on walks, so is very very special*).
> It's like [she's] an addict! LOL


i'd leash her for walks, or use a 30-ft long-line with a front-clipped H-harness - 
if she simply is allowed to take off, she will never learn; THEN use "access to other dogs" 
as her reward for 'attention to her Sacred Name' - U say her Name, she glances at U,
she gets to meet a potential buddy or current k9-friend as her 'treat'.

just clip the long-line [or leash] to the METAL RING on the chest, which joins all 3 straps. 
no ring? 
buy a LOCKING carabiner, on-line or in any outdoor supply store. Insert it UNDER the junction 
of all 3 straps on the diagonal, LOCK it, & clip the leash to the carabiner.

be sure the H-harness is snug, fits flat to her body & COMPRESSES her coat - it should not slide 
back & forth if U tug sideways at neck or girth when properly fitted, nor should the *buckles*
enter her armpits, where skin is thin & there's no hair to protect from chafing or pinches.


----------



## chazzie10

Colliepoodle said:


> ... Just a little encouraging post. This is difficult to write without sounding boasty or condescending so please be assured that it isn't meant to be either.
> 
> My girl is 11 months and I got her originally to hopefully compete at Obedience with. She is very bright and I'm very happy with her training in the class situation but she has ALWAYS been VERY interested in other dogs. Much as she loves her ball and tuggy, if there was another dog on the horizon I didn't have a hope.
> 
> She's not long had her first season and although I know some people still take their bitches out, I didn't want to take the chance so I kept her in for the requisite 3 weeks. I did LOADS more with her around the house and garden though, more training, more playing and it's really paid off.
> 
> She is more focussed on me and although still enjoys playing with other dogs, the obsession has gone. She is just as interested in me as she is other dogs now. But it HAS been hard work. I always take loads of yummy treats out, and randomly treat her just for coming back to me, even if I haven't called her. I surprise her by producing her ball at times, and chucking it in random directions (I am very good at throwing in random directions - I throw like a girl and it never goes where I want it to anyway lol).
> 
> I just wanted to assure those who are a bit despondent and losing heart (I did, on and off!) that training techniques DO work. But they don't always work quickly, and you have to keep them up, and sometimes it seems you are going backwards, but then suddenly it's like a lightbulb goes on and overnight, your dog WILL make a huge leap forward in their training and it's all worthwhile.
> 
> I also think, from observing my dog, that although "he'll grow out of it" is NOT often true of many behaviours, sometimes they DO just need to grow up a bit - adolescence in a dog is every bit as trying as it is in a human and as long as you can ride the storm and still be consistent, even though they try your patience, it will pay dividends :thumbsup:


Thanks that's encouraging. I'm almost at my wits end-Charlie is a 2yr old big Lab and he jumps and lunges to get to other dogs, he pulled me to the ground 2 days ago and today in the vets I could hardly even pay the bill cos he was lunging at dogs and would'nt sit still. I'm so frustrated, he just wont listen or focus on me when there's another dog around but good as gold and a brilliant dog otherwise... I contacted a trainer today and classes start in a few days time :mad2:


----------



## leashedForLife

chazzie10 said:


> I'm almost at my wit's end - Charlie is a 2yr old big Lab, & he jumps and lunges to get to other dogs,
> *he pulled me to the ground 2 days ago* and today in the vets I could hardly even pay the bill
> cos *he was lunging at dogs & wouldn't sit still.*
> 
> ...he just wont listen or focus on me when there's another dog around but good as gold & a brilliant dog otherwise...
> I contacted a trainer today and classes start in a few days time :mad2:


have U tried an H-Harness with his 6-ft leash clipped to the chest-ring [or a locked carabiner, 
if there's no chest-ring]?

the name-brand is immaterial, & if he has a seat-belt harness that fits him well, that's great - 
U don't have to buy one especially for this training. A consignment shop with used household goods 
might be an inexpensive source - just take him along, ask to borrow the item to check the fit, 
& leave Ur driver's license or summat to fit it on him in the car. If they'll let him in the shop, 
all the better! :thumbup:

re the vet's office, STAND ON the leash with both feet, *shoulder-width apart*, & give him 
just enuf length of leash to stand or sit, period - he can't take one step forward, it's that short.
U can clip the 6-ft leash to the front-clip harness - it gives U much better control, as it improves 
U body-mechanics & decreases the dog's leverage at the same time.  Dogs are stronger, pound for pound, 
than humans are, & IMO we need all the advantages we can get.


----------



## chazzie10

Hiya- yeah over the last two years ive tried body harnesses, face halters, short leads, long leads, extending leads lol- its cost a small fortune. I havnt tried a body harness on him in about a year so i'll maybe get him a new one that fits properly and one of those double ended lead thingys that people are talking about and give that a go clipped onto his chest ring as you suggested. Thanks


----------



## leashedForLife

Extending leads suck - they *encourage* pulling as they reward it, they provide NO control, 
they tangle around objects & ppl, they cut U if U aren't paying attn... Hate em, hate em, hate em.

i wish they'd never been invented; they cause more problems than any other single item, IME,
short of the unmentionable.


----------



## chazzie10

i gave up with the extending lead after a day or two of trying it-its maybe ok if you've got a calm dog that leaves others alone but my dog was just tangling himself around everyone and their leads- chaos. ATM im just using a short, chain lead


----------



## tanglewood3

i only joined the forum yesterday and haven't read through all the messages, but this is the main problem I deal with with older dogs.
1. You need to be able to get his attention. Work on it away from distractions. Do lots of fun obedience things. 
Passing on a path: You need to be able to turn him towards you and get him to sit by luring him with the treats. Have a handful and hold them on his nose so he can nuzzle away at them. They must be FANTASTIC titbits. you need to get him under control before he starts pulling at the dog. Keep him there with the titbits until the dog goes by. Once he's started pulling and barking it's too late. Turn away and try next time.
2. If he pulls you must stop until he is calm. 
In an open space: He must learn that if he wants to get to the other dog he must be calm. I start off holding my dog still while the other person waits for their dog to be calm. They can only go forward a pace at a time to start with, but I've had grown men cry because it's the first time their dog has been able to walk round another dog calmly. (My dogs love this because it means wages for nothing)
Although it's not practical to expect other people to do this, if you are in a field don't go forward until he is calm. You don't need to give any commands, just let him work it out.
Dogs learn to do what it takes to get what they want. He will learn that he must be calm to approach another dog. It will take a long time. Do not give up. To while away the time while he calms down, you could count how long it takes. It will gradually get less and less.
As he's very strong, you need to persevere with a headcollar. Get the help of an experienced trainer. Often people give up because their dogs don't like it and don't spend enough time making it worthwhile having the headcollar on (treats again). I sometimes tell people to drop the dog off and go shopping and within half an hour they're usually fine. I can't do any better than them, but I don't have the emotional baggage of 'poor dog'.
I give step-by-step notes to my handlers.If you e mail me through my website I'll send you them.
Tanglewood Dog Training


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## Hannahmourneevans

Thank you for this advice. I am pretty sure soon I will need it!


----------



## chewy 1969

Hi ,well I thought I had better post on here ,the advice looks great . We have a 3 dog's a very old border collie ( 16 years) a near equally old jack Runs ussell ( 14 years ) then there's the new addition pippa a beautiful 7 month old Dalmatian , who some times I think is the devil in disguise lol , we were given here by a friend about 2 weeks ago who had 2 the other a month older than pippa his wife just could not walk them together .my problem is to me it seems like she has had no training at all ( how ever she is house trained ) she pulls so hard runs off jumps up at the table climbs on the furniture ,our jack is old and grumpy and when she see,s she is winding him up it just intensify,s further any suggestions tony


----------



## Hardwick Hounds

Colliepoodle said:


> ... Just a little encouraging post. This is difficult to write without sounding boasty or condescending so please be assured that it isn't meant to be either.
> 
> My girl is 11 months and I got her originally to hopefully compete at Obedience with. She is very bright and I'm very happy with her training in the class situation but she has ALWAYS been VERY interested in other dogs. Much as she loves her ball and tuggy, if there was another dog on the horizon I didn't have a hope.
> 
> She's not long had her first season and although I know some people still take their bitches out, I didn't want to take the chance so I kept her in for the requisite 3 weeks. I did LOADS more with her around the house and garden though, more training, more playing and it's really paid off.
> 
> She is more focussed on me and although still enjoys playing with other dogs, the obsession has gone. She is just as interested in me as she is other dogs now. But it HAS been hard work. I always take loads of yummy treats out, and randomly treat her just for coming back to me, even if I haven't called her. I surprise her by producing her ball at times, and chucking it in random directions (I am very good at throwing in random directions - I throw like a girl and it never goes where I want it to anyway lol).
> 
> I just wanted to assure those who are a bit despondent and losing heart (I did, on and off!) that training techniques DO work. But they don't always work quickly, and you have to keep them up, and sometimes it seems you are going backwards, but then suddenly it's like a lightbulb goes on and overnight, your dog WILL make a huge leap forward in their training and it's all worthwhile.
> 
> I also think, from observing my dog, that although "he'll grow out of it" is NOT often true of many behaviours, sometimes they DO just need to grow up a bit - adolescence in a dog is every bit as trying as it is in a human and as long as you can ride the storm and still be consistent, even though they try your patience, it will pay dividends :thumbsup:


This is a really great post (and doesn't sound at all condescending!). I have this trouble with Bella (my 2 year old Great Dane) so my problem is that I can't loosen the reins on her and test her trust/training because if she does ignore recall, which she has done before, it really is quite scary to see a 6ft tall blue great dane steaming towards you - even though she isn't aggressive.

When our cocker was a pup and still learning recall, it was normally ok when she didn't come back straight away - ok as in the person she wanted to approach wasn't scared and normally would want to say hello to a cut little cocker puppy. This has never been the case with a great dane.

We go up and down with Bella, sometimes she is the most well behaved dog in the world and sometimes she is a bloody nightmare! She does respond to praise very well and she requires consistency. We do have punishment, like being locked in the kennel outside or a bucket of water chucked on her for things like barking etc. But she likes to be your best friend :thumbup:


----------



## Hardwick Hounds

leashedForLife said:


> Extending leads suck - they *encourage* pulling as they reward it, they provide NO control,
> they tangle around objects & ppl, they cut U if U aren't paying attn... Hate em, hate em, hate em.
> 
> i wish they'd never been invented; they cause more problems than any other single item, IME,
> short of the unmentionable.


Aw see I disagree here. Our fist dog, Skye the great dane who is now 4, had aggression problems when we got her at 1 and had been to different homes. We have worked very hard with her after about 2 years she became pleasant, calm, settled and chilled. However, she will never ever be allowed off lead because we can see in her body language when off lead dogs get near her that the aggression is still there deep down and I will never give her the opportunity to lose control of herself.

We walk her on a flexi that has webbing - no string. She is only ever walked by my husband as he is the only one she listens to. She always come back to him n command and doesn't pull and the lead is locked on full retraction when we are on pavements etc. The flexi allows her to sniff around when we get to the country park and woods and gives her a bit of freedom to be a dog without putting anyone at risk. We have never had a problem with it but I would never use any but the flexi brand as the cheap ones aren't worth the packaging they come in.

I was once making excellent progress with Bella's recall and she was doing well. I came across a woman with a collie she had recently rescues (who I had met before) and he was off lead, ignoring her commands and running riot. I was able to helo her get him back but when I passed him to her she laughed and let him go again when he proceeded to circle Bella like she was a sheep. Well Bella ripped the lead right out of my hand (the only time that has ever happened) and began to chase him at full speed. They went round and around and around for a good few minutes, near parked cars and I was mortified the whole time. I wa so upset when I got Bella back but this set her training right back to before we even started. If this irresponsible woman would have had this dog on a flexi at least, this would never have happened.


----------



## Dandelion64

Colliepoodle said:


> ... Just a little encouraging post. This is difficult to write without sounding boasty or condescending so please be assured that it isn't meant to be either.
> 
> My girl is 11 months and I got her originally to hopefully compete at Obedience with. She is very bright and I'm very happy with her training in the class situation but she has ALWAYS been VERY interested in other dogs. Much as she loves her ball and tuggy, if there was another dog on the horizon I didn't have a hope.
> 
> She's not long had her first season and although I know some people still take their bitches out, I didn't want to take the chance so I kept her in for the requisite 3 weeks. I did LOADS more with her around the house and garden though, more training, more playing and it's really paid off.
> 
> She is more focussed on me and although still enjoys playing with other dogs, the obsession has gone. She is just as interested in me as she is other dogs now. But it HAS been hard work. I always take loads of yummy treats out, and randomly treat her just for coming back to me, even if I haven't called her. I surprise her by producing her ball at times, and chucking it in random directions (I am very good at throwing in random directions - I throw like a girl and it never goes where I want it to anyway lol).
> 
> I just wanted to assure those who are a bit despondent and losing heart (I did, on and off!) that training techniques DO work. But they don't always work quickly, and you have to keep them up, and sometimes it seems you are going backwards, but then suddenly it's like a lightbulb goes on and overnight, your dog WILL make a huge leap forward in their training and it's all worthwhile.
> 
> I also think, from observing my dog, that although "he'll grow out of it" is NOT often true of many behaviours, sometimes they DO just need to grow up a bit - adolescence in a dog is every bit as trying as it is in a human and as long as you can ride the storm and still be consistent, even though they try your patience, it will pay dividends :thumbsup:


Hi Colliepoodle,
It's great to hear your hard work is paying off. Please could you tell me where you got your training advice from. I'm hoping my wayward collie pup will respond to similar. I'm willing to put the work in and I've read loads but all the advice is conflicting and I'm a bit confused. At least you give a great example of something working so I'd be happy to follow suit.
Thank you.
Dx


----------



## ines020287

Good to read your comments guys! I have a 7 month old Shar Pei- training him obedience twice a week during classes and almost every day in my spare time. What can I say? He's a challenge! Love him to bits but sometimes I just feel like banging my head against the brick wall with him. Feels like taking one baby step forward, two backwards. Regardless I'll carry on with his training and update you all if it has paid off in a year or so when his teenage years pass!


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## leashedForLife

Hardwick Hounds said:


> I was once making excellent progress with Bella's recall & she was doing well.
> 
> [We met] a woman with a collie she'd recently rescued... he was off lead, ignoring her [*cues*] & running riot.


just an observation, but read this as edited [cues vs commands], & see what a change it makes 
in the way the dog's behavior is then represented: Disobeying a *command* is deliberate, 
calculated, rebellious, & so on; not complying with a CUE means the actor might miss it 
[not hear or see], not understand what it means, *forget*, be distracted, get nervous... 
See what i mean? 

Dogs & other nonhumans do have free will, but assuming they're always deliberately defying us
when they don't comply misses all the simple reasons that they might do so, & lays the blame on them, 
when often it's a training failure: we didn't proof the circs, didn't train in multiple contexts, don't 
get the dog's attn before the cue [fail to say their Sacred name, don't say it loud-enuf to compete 
with traffic or other noise, don't WAIT till they react to their Name to add that cue, & so forth].

Assuming the other is always a criminal or rebel is a very polarizing POV.  I prefer to assume that 
*i screwed-up*, & go from there to find ways to improve performance. That way, the learner 
isn't going to be my adversary, & even if s/he DID deliberately choose to do something else, there 
won't be any possibility of fallout or a loss of trust. Eating humble-pie is easy for those long-term gains.
:thumbup:


Hardwick Hounds said:


> I [helped] her get him back, but *when I passed [his leash] to her she laughed, & let him go again*...
> 
> he proceeded to circle Bella like... a sheep. ...Bella ripped the lead [from] my hand (the only time
> that's ever happened) & [chased] him at full speed. They went round & round for a good few minutes,
> near parked cars & I was mortified... so upset when I got Bella back, ... this set her training right back
> to before we'd started.
> 
> If this irresponsible woman ...had this dog on a Flexi at least, this would never have happened.


if she'd kept him on the damned leash, it wouldn't have happened, either. ::Shrug:

if she'd had the brains of a haddock, she wouldn't allow her dog to harass other dogs. 

If we were all *responsible*, dog-bites, "free to good home", unwanted or unplanned litters, 
chronic preventable HERITABLE problems in pets, & all manner of other things would not happen.

However, in fact we're irresponsible as a species; Flexis are not in the majority of APO's hands 
a good, reliable tool, compared to leashes that DON't slice hands, ankles, tangle passerby, & so on.

The MAKER's cautions [please read the disclaimers]:
Extendable dog leads, retractable leash, leash training supplies at flexiusa.

Google search, "Dangers of Flexi leash"
Google

A leash won't snap back & blind U; a leash won't send U to get stitches. A leash is unlikely to take down 
an entire 8-ft long folding-table at an outdoor event, or overturn a carousel of collars & postcards.


Flexis suck, IME.  i've seen far too-many stoopid, preventable accidents.


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## Meena1

I have two dogs I have bought loads of toys and they don't seem interested in them as for treats it hit or a miss if they take them.


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## Kellyhp

All i can say is thank goodness im not alone my boy labrador wont listen when seen another dog he turns two next month i have been able get him to turn an look at me now an then an i was able get him to return maybe once without him charging over to the other dog an give him treat for doing so but like other times with other food source he enjoys the food but loses interessed in it after a while i am afraid to let him off when theres kids or toddlers round case he knocks them over an ive tried playing ball again the ball entices him to me now and again but if theres a dog he loses interessed and as we all know not ever dogs friendly also he doesnt seem to get the hint when another dog warns him off he just goes back to try play


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## Meena1

Kellyhp said:


> All i can say is thank goodness im not alone my boy labrador wont listen when seen another dog he turns two next month i have been able get him to turn an look at me now an then an i was able get him to return maybe once without him charging over to the other dog an give him treat for doing so but like other times with other food source he enjoys the food but loses interessed in it after a while i am afraid to let him off when theres kids or toddlers round case he knocks them over an ive tried playing ball again the ball entices him to me now and again but if theres a dog he loses interessed and as we all know not ever dogs friendly also he doesnt seem to get the hint when another dog warns him off he just goes back to try play


I have a chitsue and laza apso who does exactly the same have no idea how to deal with this behaviour any one got any tips.


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## PennyGSD

TUNA FUDGE

It's proving very successful.

As the proud owner of one very reactive dog - not always aggressive, but when the red mist of excitement comes down there is absolutely no way to get and keep her interest. Until I baked some Tuna Fudge yesterday.

I've resigned myself to months and months of very quiet, controlled walks, much longer in distance to make up for the lack of free running, and pockets stinking of tuna. But if it works...

And it even works on the other dog. Up to now he's been so disinterested in ANY type of reward outside of the house it's unreal. Even he's been sticking close to my side on the pavement sections with no command and actually responded to 'Come, Sam' on his long line for some fudge. OK, he was only 6ft away from me at the time and I was waving fudge around, but it's progress!


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## Twiggy

PennyGSD said:


> TUNA FUDGE
> 
> It's proving very successful.
> 
> As the proud owner of one very reactive dog - not always aggressive, but when the red mist of excitement comes down there is absolutely no way to get and keep her interest. Until I baked some Tuna Fudge yesterday.
> 
> I've resigned myself to months and months of very quiet, controlled walks, much longer in distance to make up for the lack of free running, and pockets stinking of tuna. But if it works...
> 
> And it even works on the other dog. Up to now he's been so disinterested in ANY type of reward outside of the house it's unreal. Even he's been sticking close to my side on the pavement sections with no command and actually responded to 'Come, Sam' on his long line for some fudge. OK, he was only 6ft away from me at the time and I was waving fudge around, but it's progress!


More or less the same recipe as Tuna cake which a friend makes. We've also found it to be very successful with dogs that are not overly fussed about lesser tit-bits.


----------



## PennyGSD

Twiggy said:


> More or less the same recipe as Tuna cake which a friend makes. We've also found it to be very successful with dogs that are not overly fussed about lesser tit-bits.


But tuna fudge sounds so much more appetising, don't you think? Not that I found myself tempted to try it and OH looked positively green when I offered it to him. I let the dogs lick the mixing spoon this time, when normally that's the cook's perk.

I can also see myself branching out into sardine fudge, salmon fudge, mackeral fudge. But I draw the line at tripe.


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## VMoon

re dog training and our expectation of the out come, mainly that it cant happen quick enough for some of us lol and we dont have the most obediant dog on the street ...infact that dog lives in everyone elses house, how do they do that ? I have often watched and wondered at the dog fabulously walking on the street,and enjoying his walk on the lead, not a care in the world to the other dogs in the area let alone the same side of the street just happy to be out with his owner. I know that all we dog lovers out there know what I am about to post, but just sometimes we may loose sight of the individuality of each dog. In my experience, The Personality of each pooch plays a big part in the nitty gritty of the training and socializing stage, and while some dogs seem to learn certain things over night taught from a proffesional trainers point of view, (where we all look to start, at least, and very helpful indeed). But, we may need to take a day by day appraoch taking time to let your dog develope his personality, and get to know yours, it may be that a different approach is needed, even if that means just a little more time and perseverance lol it really is worth it ..happy times


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## virgolin01

So glad your young dog is responding to her training. I have always enjoyed training my dogs and it gives you a great lift to know you can take your dog on your travels and feel proud that he can enjoy himself but still be well behaved. 
Unfortunately I am not doing that well with one of my dogs. My Goldie, Ted is the most sensible best behaved dogs you could ever meet but my mongrel, Gomez is the most frustrating dog you will meet. 
I have spent most of my adult life training dogs or reading about training dogs or watching programmes on training dogs, but after trying everything I know I still can't get him to come back when I want him to. So long as there are no dogs around he will walk with Ted and me quite happily. If he gets a bit far in front I just walk the other way and he comes running after us but as soon as there is a new dog in the area he goes completely deaf and does not remember I am there.
He is at least 13 years old. My partner got him as a rescue dog and I met him 2 years ago but seriously started training him about 6 months ago. He is now very well behaved in the house. Anybody got any ideas?


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## virgolin01

I agree with you about the long line. It is much easier and safer if you let your dogs run with a long line attached. However I have been lucky enough to find a large safe field where a lot of the walkers meet around the same time of day. All of the dogs get to know each other and it is great to see a group of dogs just socializing and playing. With Gomez on the long line the other dogs and people were getting caught up. I now leave a shorter line on him. its much safer for every one and I can still jump on the line if I have trouble getting him back. There is no diving for his collar which he would no doubt realise and manage to evade!


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## Osmanspair

I like these sort of posts as they have a way of reassuring me that everything's going according to plan. :thumbup1:
When learning a new command or trick Monty tends to cycle through all the ones he already knows, such as sitting and lifting a paw, until the new one has clicked into place.
I only need remember how long it took me to change gears smoothly when learning to driving - something that's so apparently simple these days. So I put myself in his place and give him plenty of time to learn and remain calm in the knowledge he will get it eventually.
The Premack Principle helped a lot in gaining his attention whilst out with other dogs, as did regular but short training sessions. 
Eventually I might be able to take the "L" plates off the little darlin'.:wink5:


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## ElinJ

I just joined this forum, hoping to find advice. My 20 month old black lab, Ruby, is beautiful, affectionate and calm at home, but outside she turns into a different dog. She pulls the lead, jerks and lunges, tries to jump up on strangers, and is obsessed with other dogs. She is desperate to play with them, but she gets too hyper to be safely let off the lead. Some dogs are too old, small, or might even get aggressive. In order to give her the necessary exercise, I take her out at dawn, when there us nobody about. We have taken her to numerous training classes, but she has not changed. She knows the basics, sit, down, stay, etc., but when she sees another dog she does not pay any attention to me, even if I dangle a sausage in front of her nose. If anyone has any advice for me, I would be very grateful.


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## Kates126

My chocolate lab was exactly like this. I found that persevering with toys made all the difference. He loved his football. Eventually the other dogs stopped mattering as much. I also take him everywhere with me so he is totally unfazed by most things now. It was just time, I did think I had a devil dog for a while. He would ignore me and run off. But he is amazing now, the jumping up thing is a struggle occasionally but I definitely seeing the light!


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## Barleysmum

I'm glad I'm not the only one lol. My 5month old cocker is so obidient in the house but bolts from our garden at every opportunity and if off the lead I regularly lose him to another dog. I've practised on a long lead calling and treating. Works fine unless there is another dog. He is working strain and is drawn by birds etc....... Not fussed with traffic or bikes though. It's difficult as due to his breed he needs that off the lead stimulation, I'm findin I'm having to play excess tug and fetch to fill the void.any advice or story sharing would be welcomed x


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## Barleysmum

ElinJ said:


> I just joined this forum, hoping to find advice. My 20 month old black lab, Ruby, is beautiful, affectionate and calm at home, but outside she turns into a different dog. She pulls the lead, jerks and lunges, tries to jump up on strangers, and is obsessed with other dogs. She is desperate to play with them, but she gets too hyper to be safely let off the lead. Some dogs are too old, small, or might even get aggressive. In order to give her the necessary exercise, I take her out at dawn, when there us nobody about. We have taken her to numerous training classes, but she has not changed. She knows the basics, sit, down, stay, etc., but when she sees another dog she does not pay any attention to me, even if I dangle a sausage in front of her nose. If anyone has any advice for me, I would be very grateful.


If the other dogs don't want to play or she becomes too rough, they will soon tell her and it doesn't mean there will be a fight. It's the only way she will learn her doggy manners. It helps if you friends with similar breed or size dogs. There are dog walking groups out there. It just takes time. If u feel nervous or anxious she will pick up on it so maybe ask someone else to try for you.
Hope that helps vicky (vet nurse) x


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## labradrk

Barleysmum said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one lol. My 5month old cocker is so obidient in the house but bolts from our garden at every opportunity and if off the lead I regularly lose him to another dog. I've practised on a long lead calling and treating. Works fine unless there is another dog. He is working strain and is drawn by birds etc....... Not fussed with traffic or bikes though. It's difficult as due to his breed he needs that off the lead stimulation, I'm findin I'm having to play excess tug and fetch to fill the void.any advice or story sharing would be welcomed x


Have you done any training classes with him?

Doing as you are doing (praising/treating him for recall) will work, but only if you proof it against the distraction you are trying to train for in a controlled environment.

He's the perfect age to start gundog training if that sort of thing interests you. Plenty of people have no intention of actually working the dog (although that does often follow if an interest develops and the dog is good!) and just do it to improve the dogs general behaviour and obedience.


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## Rafa

Barleysmum said:


> If the other dogs don't want to play or she becomes too rough, they will soon tell her and it doesn't mean there will be a fight. It's the only way she will learn her doggy manners. It helps if you friends with similar breed or size dogs. There are dog walking groups out there. It just takes time. If u feel nervous or anxious she will pick up on it so maybe ask someone else to try for you.
> Hope that helps vicky (vet nurse) x


Well, I don't just agree with this.

It really isn't fair to allow your boisterous young dog to run up to other dogs at random on the basis that they will teach her "doggy manners".

It simply isn't fair to other dog owners. I have had more than my share of dogs tearing up to my Jack Russell, whilst their owners shout "He only wants to play". My Rosie won't tolerate bad manners and will bite, if pushed.

It isn't fair to allow a young dog to blunder into a situation where they're going to be bitten, or worse.

Training, preferably on a long line, until your dog can be more calm and reliable and learn some respect around others dogs is what's needed, in my opinion.


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## Barleysmum

labradrk said:


> Have you done any training classes with him?
> 
> Doing as you are doing (praising/treating him for recall) will work, but only if you proof it against the distraction you are trying to train for in a controlled environment.
> 
> He's the perfect age to start gundog training if that sort of thing interests you. Plenty of people have no intention of actually working the dog (although that does often follow if an interest develops and the dog is good!) and just do it to improve the dogs general behaviour and obedience.


Hiya he, sits leaves, down stay (until I release) fetch. All the normal stuff. If we are in a field with no dogs or other people he will come back but if any of the later apply he is off lol........I do on lead recall and I shut us in the tennis court and call away from distractions at the fence. We did 5 training classes in which he just jumped all over the other dogs lol.
I guess just a work in progress :001_rolleyes: x


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## labradrk

Barleysmum said:


> Hiya he, sits leaves, down stay (until I release) fetch. All the normal stuff. If we are in a field with no dogs or other people he will come back but if any of the later apply he is off lol........I do on lead recall and I shut us in the tennis court and call away from distractions at the fence. I guess just a work in progress :001_rolleyes: x


Yes, which is why you need to do those things WITH distractions in a controlled environment. In an uncontrolled environment (like on a walk), you cannot control other peoples actions. In a controlled class type environment, you have the distractions but they are far more predictable as they are all doing the same thing as you....training!


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## Sunnyb

Does anyone have any advice for when your dog simply won't pay you attention?

I have an 8, nearly 9 month old now, and in the house he is perfect, he'll do commands for really low yield treats. Out on walks we occasionally have a hiccup i.e. he won't come back immediately if I call him and there's another dog, but I can work on that quite easily. But in dog training class he acts so stupidly it defies belief. We took a while off between attending puppy and dog classes because it was over the Christmas period, and going back he can't ignore the other dogs. He whines and rolls around on the floor, and he point blank refuses to acknowledge me, even when I use the 'watch' command which he normally in all other situations will immediately obey. I take the highest yield treats I have (hot dogs) and even if I told it right under his nose, he's too busy watching the other dogs to even notice.

Any advice would be great, I came home and cried last night after dog training I was so embarrassed! It doesn't help that all the other dogs angelically gaze up at their owners with complete devotion


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## Fly dog

Sunnyb said:


> Does anyone have any advice for when your dog simply won't pay you attention?
> 
> I have an 8, nearly 9 month old now, and in the house he is perfect, he'll do commands for really low yield treats. Out on walks we occasionally have a hiccup i.e. he won't come back immediately if I call him and there's another dog, but I can work on that quite easily. But in dog training class he acts so stupidly it defies belief. We took a while off between attending puppy and dog classes because it was over the Christmas period, and going back he can't ignore the other dogs. He whines and rolls around on the floor, and he point blank refuses to acknowledge me, even when I use the 'watch' command which he normally in all other situations will immediately obey. I take the highest yield treats I have (hot dogs) and even if I told it right under his nose, he's too busy watching the other dogs to even notice.
> 
> Any advice would be great, I came home and cried last night after dog training I was so embarrassed! It doesn't help that all the other dogs angelically gaze up at their owners with complete devotion


Have you asked your trainer for advice? A good trainer should be able to help you through this with some suggestions.
Personally I would get a greater distance from the other dogs. When my dog was at idiot teenage stage he couldn't focus if the other dogs were too close and I regularly had to wander off to a greater distance. Sometimes it meant I wasn't part of the class at all and was doing loose lead walking at the other side of a field. Other times it meant just being 10ft away.
Even now my boy still loses it if the dog is directly next to him (easy playing distance) so if someone stands too close I move away. I also either feed tiny treats for attention or ask for different behaviours and reward different strings of them while the trainer is talking as that's when most dogs switch off because owners are listening and ignoring them.
Are your treats high value enough that your dog really wants them? I use a mix of liver cake, sausage and cheese. Just one type of treat gets boring whereas a mix keeps them guessing. Also is your dog hungry before class? I'm not saying starve a dog, just feed less than usual so they really do want treats.
And remember just because the other dogs look like angels in class it doesn't mean they are at home, or doesn't mean they were always like this. Anyone observing my boy in class now might think he was a little angel (well some weeks anyway). He can work off lead and spends his time in between exercises gazing at me. What they wouldn't necessarily realise is that I have to work extremely hard to keep his attention and also for 6 months I had to do all exercises that should be off lead on long line instead as he kept running off! I spent many classes trying to catch him as he did zoomies!
The teenage phase doesn't last forever. I liked my boy again once he. Hit 18 months!


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## tanglewood3

Fly dog's right. You need a bit of distance. This is a really useful exercise: put your dog on the lead and wait for him to look at you (do not say anything or tweak the lead). When he looks at you say 'good' (or click) and put the titbit on the floor. While he's eating it step behind him and wait for him to turn and look at you. Repeat about half a dozen times. You can give him the titbit straight to the mouth, but putting it on the floor gives you a bit of extra time to get behind him.
Do this in all sorts of places: at home, on a walk, when you leave the house, when he gets out of the car. If you get to the park and he starts scanning to see what's about. I also start heelwork training this way.
Last week I had a class of mostly Labrador puppies all doing this milling around each other all concentrating on their owners.
I wouldn't feed him before class. Maybe get some cheese or thinly sliced chicken or ham for a change. Don't keep telling him to watch you if he isn't. You are only teaching him to ignore you. Don't get downhearted: we've all been there


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## Sunnyb

Ok thank you, I will certainly give those suggestions a go! Different treats, distance, and the exercise mentioned! And thank you both for being so nice, sometimes it's very easy to imagine that you must be a bad owner and doing something wrong when your dog won't pay you attention and every other dog is so focused! Wish us luck going forward


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## Lisey82

Hi everyone, I'm new on here and after some advice on my dog and puppy behaviour. We have a pug who is nearly 3 and have just got a frug who is now 9 weeks old. We have had her since Saturday and she seems pretty happy! My dog seems to be getting used to her slowly but the problem we have is that my pup keeps chasing my dog and he doesn't like it at all and runs from her up the stairs! He seems to come straight back down but it's only a matter of time before she's worked out how to get up the stairs lol. Any advice please


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## lostbear

Colliepoodle said:


> ... Just a little encouraging post. This is difficult to write without sounding boasty or condescending so please be assured that it isn't meant to be either.
> 
> My girl is 11 months and I got her originally to hopefully compete at Obedience with. She is very bright and I'm very happy with her training in the class situation but she has ALWAYS been VERY interested in other dogs. Much as she loves her ball and tuggy, if there was another dog on the horizon I didn't have a hope.
> 
> She's not long had her first season and although I know some people still take their bitches out, I didn't want to take the chance so I kept her in for the requisite 3 weeks. I did LOADS more with her around the house and garden though, more training, more playing and it's really paid off.
> 
> She is more focussed on me and although still enjoys playing with other dogs, the obsession has gone. She is just as interested in me as she is other dogs now. But it HAS been hard work. I always take loads of yummy treats out, and randomly treat her just for coming back to me, even if I haven't called her. I surprise her by producing her ball at times, and chucking it in random directions (I am very good at throwing in random directions - *I throw like a girl *and it never goes where I want it to anyway lol).
> 
> I BEG you pardon! :laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> I just wanted to assure those who are a bit despondent and losing heart (I did, on and off!) that training techniques DO work. But they don't always work quickly, and you have to keep them up, and sometimes it seems you are going backwards, but then suddenly it's like a lightbulb goes on and overnight, your dog WILL make a huge leap forward in their training and it's all worthwhile.
> 
> I also think, from observing my dog, that although "he'll grow out of it" is NOT often true of many behaviours, sometimes they DO just need to grow up a bit - adolescence in a dog is every bit as trying as it is in a human and as long as you can ride the storm and still be consistent, even though they try your patience, it will pay dividends :thumbsup:


Well done to you and your dog - it's lovely to see someone put in the work, AND to have evidence that it pays off. Your life will be so much easier as well.

Congratulations. :thumbup:


----------



## Muttly

That made me laugh too, I totally know what she means, because I too throw like a girl!!!

I have a question wtf is a Frug?

Great post OP!


----------



## Muttly

Lisey82 said:


> Hi everyone, I'm new on here and after some advice on my dog and puppy behaviour. We have a pug who is nearly 3 and have just got a frug who is now 9 weeks old. We have had her since Saturday and she seems pretty happy! My dog seems to be getting used to her slowly but the problem we have is that my pup keeps chasing my dog and he doesn't like it at all and runs from her up the stairs! He seems to come straight back down but it's only a matter of time before she's worked out how to get up the stairs lol. Any advice please


Are you sure he doesn't like it? and isn't just playing chase? being that he comes straight back down?
We play chase with Muttly and he will run really fast with his ears back, then when you stop, he turns round, ears up and chases you back, then when you stop he does this bouncy thing on his front legs and off we go again


----------



## leashedForLife

Muttly said:


> ...
> I have a question - WTH is a Frug?
> ...


I would imagine it's yet-another "clever" contraction of 2 breeds, used to name some over-priced crossbreed -
such as, for instance, a *Fr*ench Bulldog x P*ug*.

Given that the poster already has one Pug, & apprently didn't learn from their 1st experience of brachy-breeds,
i'd venture a guess they bought a so-called "designer" crossbreed with an appropriately Godawful 'cute' name
& a whopping price-tag suitable to the rarity of their little darling.
 Outside of purpose-bred working crossbreeds or sporting crossbreeds [JRT x BC in flyball, for instance],
most 'designer' crossbreeds are only designed to pry more money from buyers' wallets.
.
.


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## lostbear

leashedForLife said:


> *I would imagine it's yet-another "clever" contraction of 2 breeds, used to name some over-priced crossbreed -
> such as, for instance, a French Bulldog x Pug.*
> 
> Given that the poster already has one Pug, & apprently didn't learn from their 1st experience of brachy-breeds,
> i'd venture a guess they bought a so-called "designer" crossbreed with an appropriately Godawful 'cute' name
> & a whopping price-tag suitable to the rarity of their little darling.
> Outside of purpose-bred working crossbreeds or sporting crossbreeds [JRT x BC in flyball, for instance],
> most 'designer' crossbreeds are only designed to pry more money from buyers' wallets.
> .
> .


Spot on! That is exactly what a 'frug" is.

and my heaven help us all . . . .


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## Muttly

I couldn't for the life of me, think of a breed that began with F!


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## leashedForLife

Muttly said:


> I couldn't, for the life of me, think of a breed that began with *F*...!


Field Spaniel

Fila Brasiliero

Finnish Lapphund
Finnish Spitz

Flat-coated Retriever

Fleagle? -
 a Beagle who won't stand her / his ground, but runs whenever s/he feels threatened.

Fox Terrier

French Poodle
French Bulldog

any of the many French scenthounds [Porcelaine, etc].

Four-Eyed AKA Tibetan Mastiff in the classic B-&-T pattern

Those are the ones that spring to mind immediately - i'm sure there are others. :yesnod:
.
.


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## Muttly

leashedForLife said:


> Field Spaniel
> 
> Fila Brasiliero
> 
> Finnish Lapphund
> Finnish Spitz
> 
> Flat-coated Retriever
> 
> Fleagle? -
> a Beagle who won't stand her / his ground, but runs whenever s/he feels threatened.
> 
> Fox Terrier
> 
> French Poodle
> French Bulldog
> 
> any of the many French scenthounds [Porcelaine, etc].
> 
> Four-Eyed AKA Tibetan Mastiff in the classic B-&-T pattern
> 
> Those are the ones that spring to mind immediately - i'm sure there are others. :yesnod:
> .
> .


Smart ass :laugh:


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## Rafa

Foxhound.


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## leashedForLife

Muttly said:


> Smart ass :laugh:


that's just the fundament i sit upon. :lol: My brain was the part that remembered. 


Sweety said:


> Foxhound.


How could i forget!...  Thank U, Sweety. 
.
.


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## lostbear

Muttly said:


> Smart ass :laugh:


Have to agree - just showing off now, Babe! :thumbup:


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## Lisey82

leashedForLife said:


> I would imagine it's yet-another "clever" contraction of 2 breeds, used to name some over-priced crossbreed -
> such as, for instance, a *Fr*ench Bulldog x P*ug*.
> 
> Given that the poster already has one Pug, & apprently didn't learn from their 1st experience of brachy-breeds,
> i'd venture a guess they bought a so-called "designer" crossbreed with an appropriately Godawful 'cute' name
> & a whopping price-tag suitable to the rarity of their little darling.
> Outside of purpose-bred working crossbreeds or sporting crossbreeds [JRT x BC in flyball, for instance],
> most 'designer' crossbreeds are only designed to pry more money from buyers' wallets.
> .
> .


I actually rescued this puppy so didn't cost a thing! Also my pug is a very lovely dog! Thank you


----------



## leashedForLife

Lisey82 said:


> ...I'm new here...
> We've a Pug who's nearly 3-YO & just got a Pug-cross, now 9-WO. We've had her since Saturday, & she seems
> pretty happy! My dog seems to be getting used to her slowly, but the problem... is that my pup chases my dog -
> he doesn't like it at all, & runs from her up the stairs! *He seems to come straight back down*, but it's only
> a matter of time before she's worked out how to get up the stairs. :lol:
> 
> Any advice, please?


Separate the older Pug from the pup when she chases him - just for a few minutes, upstairs.
One or 2 minutes is plenty, just restraining him gently by holding him on Ur lap, sitting on the stair head
so he can't pass U by, or similar.
Let him go... if he races back down to her, *relax!...* It's a game, he's happy.

If he chooses to avoid her - he's not delighted to play, or he's just tired & will go back to play chase
after he catches his breath, cools off, takes a nap, ____ .


Muttly said:


> Are you sure he doesn't like it? ...and isn't just playing chase? being that he comes straight back down?
> 
> We play chase with Muttly & he'll run really fast with his ears back, then when you stop, he turns round, ears up,
> & chases you [his turn!]... when you stop, he does this bouncy thing on his front legs, & off we go again.


Classic game, & lots of fun, too. 


Lisey82 said:


> I actually rescued this puppy so didn't cost a thing!
> Also my pug is a very lovely dog! Thank you.


Good! :thumbup: on both counts - i've seen way too many ppl ripped off shamelessly by money-grubbing
BYBs or even show-breeders out to make a sideline buck with crossbreeds. :nonod:
it's appalling.


lostbear said:


> Have to agree - just showing off now, Babe! :thumbup:


hey!  I have to get some fun out of this bl**dy forum... :001_tt2:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
i think U're just sorry U missed Ur chance. Heh-heh-heh! Neener-neener...
.
.


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## Muttly

Lisey82 said:


> I actually rescued this puppy so didn't cost a thing! Also my pug is a very lovely dog! Thank you


Good on you!  My dog is supposed to be a 'Jack -a- Chi' but he wasn't planned and was in a way a rescue. I wouldn't purposely seek out a designer dog. To me he's just a Muttly :tongue_smilie:


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## lostbear

leashedForLife said:


> Separate the older Pug from the pup when she chases him - just for a few minutes, upstairs.
> One or 2 minutes is plenty, just restraining him gently by holding him on Ur lap, sitting on the stair head
> so he can't pass U by, or similar.
> Let him go... if he races back down to her, *relax!...* It's a game, he's happy.
> 
> If he chooses to avoid her - he's not delighted to play, or he's just tired & will go back to play chase
> after he catches his breath, cools off, takes a nap, ____ .
> 
> Classic game, & lots of fun, too.
> 
> Good! :thumbup: on both counts - i've seen way too many ppl ripped off shamelessly by money-grubbing
> BYBs or even show-breeders out to make a sideline buck with crossbreeds. :nonod:
> it's appalling.
> *
> hey!  I have to get some fun out of this bl**dy forum.*.. :001_tt2:
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> i think U're just sorry U missed Ur chance. Heh-heh-heh! Neener-neener...
> .
> .


Why? Can't you just be miserable like the rest of us? :laugh:


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## lostbear

leashedForLife said:


> Field Spaniel
> 
> *Fleagle? -
> a Beagle who won't stand her / his ground, but runs whenever s/he feels threatened.*
> 
> . :yesnod:
> .
> .


Just noticed this - I would like one of these, but can we spell it "fleegle", please, otherwise with my luck I'll end up with one covered with parasites! :yikes:


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## rachyni

I'm currently in floods of tears because I've just been shouted at by some horrible woman because my gsp boy who is very sweet and friendly and who I've worked hard training is ' out of control, aggressive with his hackles up' he loves other dogs and I have problems getting him to leave them alone ... But I feel really despondent and will be nervous now when I take him out. I'm pretty sure its not aggression just excitement. . he never growls or barks but doesn't react when the other dog tells him to go away ... What can I do ?


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## Meezey

.


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## Dogloverlou

rachyni said:


> I'm currently in floods of tears because I've just been shouted at by some horrible woman because my gsp boy who is very sweet and friendly and who I've worked hard training is ' out of control, aggressive with his hackles up' he loves other dogs and I have problems getting him to leave them alone ... But I feel really despondent and will be nervous now when I take him out. I'm pretty sure its not aggression just excitement. . he never growls or barks but doesn't react when the other dog tells him to go away ... What can I do ?


Hackles up can be a sign of arousal usually as a result of feeling uncertain about the situation. How old is your dog? He sounds like he lacks social awareness and if he doesn't listen to other dog's telling him to go away you really must step in....or better yet, don't allow him to find himself in these situations. How is his recall without distractions?
Try not to let what the other owner said get to you, but use this as a stepping stone to really teaching your dog appropriate behaviour out and about. While working on a solid recall you need to keep him on a long line or flexi in distracting environments where you know you won't be able to keep his focus so as not to set him up for failure.


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## Staffylover122456

I've got a 9 week old staff comes to me when called as soon as there's other dogs or people around runs straight to them


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## PawsandFeathers

I would honestly be furious if someone just allowed their overly friendly dog bound up to mine but I have been on the other side of the fence. I have shouted at owners who showed no signs of recalling their but if they made the efforts to collect then I would not have a go.

The trouble is over friendlyness is just as serious as not friendly at all I don't get why the friendly dogs have the run of the park. It can cause all sorts of issues for owners who trying to help their own dog and its very infuriating when people just stride past you without any care what their dog is doing.

I have been on the other side of the fence I own one dog who adores other dogs and people if I let her she would become that annoying dog that bounds up and makes other dogs play with her which is in all honesty not acceptable.

I own another dog who is particular about the dogs she meets and will tell off rude dogs and her recall gets worse if the other dogs will not leave her alone. It can also be serious for the overly friendly dog because one day they will meet a dog bigger and stronger then they are and less tolorent then the others and get attacked that's how fights can happen.


Its great having friendly dogs in some ways easier but they still need to taught how to behave around others otherwise they can get hurt.


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## Rahoulb

Staffylover122456 said:


> I've got a 9 week old staff comes to me when called as soon as there's other dogs or people around runs straight to them


That's still quite young, so he will need further training to understand that "come" means "come", no matter what the circumstances (although no dog can ever be 100%). In particular, people and dogs will be really really exciting to a puppy; much more exciting than you. So you need to persuade the dog that you are the most important and exciting thing around; which involves lots of repetition and practising in different places and with different levels of distractions (starting with boring places so you are the most interesting thing around and gradually building up to places with leaves blowing, interesting smells and finally dogs and people).


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## waltergibbs

That is good news. It is often hard to judge attention vs humanization of the beast. I like the idea of focused time. I did not see any mention of dominance of the group of dogs together, which may help put you in "head honcho" position and give you a natural pedestal (i didnt use "thee pack leeeder"). I only say this because one of my pups was a bit like that, following our oldest, and being the nimble hatchetman for the older one's devious ideas. It is awkward, like yelling at your kid for something their friend is doing while visiting "Stephen, stop pulling your sister's hair! I'm not mom! Well whoever it is stop it!" kinda thing.


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## CNJ

Rachyni...
I really feel for you after reading that post. My partner and I have a GSD who we got at 4 months and so didn't have the 'socialisation' period with him. He's fantastic with people, will walk to heal on and off lead and has recently finally developed really good recall...that is until another dog is around...
We're totally stuck...on the one hand we are responsible dog owners so whenever we see another dog we immediately put him on lead (unfortunately this seems to turn him to a 'puller' towards the dog which because of his size make him seem scary and people avoid us so can't meet ither dogs whilst on a lead), on the other hand we desperately want him to socialise but when we have the opportunity to do this we risk being shouted at if we can't get him back!
There have been so many times that I've come home in tears after walking him by myself, it feels so lonely...all these people who say 'he should have been socialised when young' or 'you need to train your dog'... We've done soooo much with him...trainers and behaviourists yet still have the dog problem.

Incidentally he has numerous dogs he plays with when we return to my parents and inlaws (collies, retrievers, Labradors) and he's awesome once he's met them off lead for 1 minute...it's just getting that minute that seems difficult where we live! 

This doesn't help you I realise but please know there are others out there who are in similar circumstances...maybe it might make you feel you aren't alone?! And of course if you happen to live in the Dorking/Reigate area let me know if your GSP would like to play with an 18month old GSD...no judgement involved!

Claire


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## havoc

I too identify and sympathise. You can do everything to socialise your pup but it's a real problem with large and boisterous breeds. Take yours along to puppy socialisation groups and it can be up to twenty times the weight of the smallest pups at the same age so has to be constrained to an extent which must be frustrating. Doubly annoying is when the other, smaller and cuter pups are actually behaving much worse than your 'monster' but of course size attracts attention. Take heart owners, mine was also vocal which is much worse - far more embarrassing as it gives a real impression of aggression  I managed to deal with the pulling towards other dogs more easily than the barking. After some work, on the lead he'd see another dog coming towards us and immediately sit at my side - and bark. I had to move onto really high value treats to counter that and to be honest I'm not sure he wouldn't have grown out of it on his own. Could be I prolonged the problem using treats - they aren't stupid dogs after all. There's so much information on training out there these days and I do think new owners can sometimes get the impression they should have a perfectly socialised and trained dog within weeks. All those youtube clips of cute Pugs learning wonderful tricks in a matter of minutes and other dogs behaving perfectly on the lead would have had me utterly despondent.


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## Mesotes

Having a large and boisterous puppy/dog is quite the challenge. When I took Oscar to puppy classes, he was a little older than all the other dogs and ten times bigger, so he was not allowed to play before the class, he had to stay outside the enclosure and watch the fun.  He was also banished to behind the counter during class time because of his size, and he was the best student in the class with his sits, downs and stays. Needless to say we didn't finish the full course.


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## IndieWolfe

Glad you and your girl are doing so well. Thanks for this post, it is nice to hear success stories. It gives me hope that the training will pay off with my girl and reminds me that she will eventually mature and get a little easier to manage. I love her and we have good days as far as training but she is still very much a 5 month old puppy.


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## brendaanne3

Oh my goodness, thank you so much for this post! I saw the topic title and immediately thought "this is EXACTLY my situation!"

I never realized how much Apollo (my 3 1/2 month old border collie/husky mix) was distracted by other dogs until I took him into his first formal training sessions with a few other pups. He whined the entire time when I wouldn't let him run over and play with the other dogs and when I would want him to focus on what I wanted to teach him. Since coming home from this class (I only just started going this past week) I've been working with him a ton on keeping his attention on me and checking back with me throughout walks and I've already seen an improvement! At least when there's not too many things to distract him. But we're getting there!

It's great to know that others have the same growing pains and that my little furbaby isn't alone!


----------



## Puppy_luv

Colliepoodle said:


> ... Just a little encouraging post. This is difficult to write without sounding boasty or condescending so please be assured that it isn't meant to be either.
> 
> My girl is 11 months and I got her originally to hopefully compete at Obedience with. She is very bright and I'm very happy with her training in the class situation but she has ALWAYS been VERY interested in other dogs. Much as she loves her ball and tuggy, if there was another dog on the horizon I didn't have a hope.
> 
> She's not long had her first season and although I know some people still take their bitches out, I didn't want to take the chance so I kept her in for the requisite 3 weeks. I did LOADS more with her around the house and garden though, more training, more playing and it's really paid off.
> 
> She is more focussed on me and although still enjoys playing with other dogs, the obsession has gone. She is just as interested in me as she is other dogs now. But it HAS been hard work. I always take loads of yummy treats out, and randomly treat her just for coming back to me, even if I haven't called her. I surprise her by producing her ball at times, and chucking it in random directions (I am very good at throwing in random directions - I throw like a girl and it never goes where I want it to anyway lol).
> 
> I just wanted to assure those who are a bit despondent and losing heart (I did, on and off!) that training techniques DO work. But they don't always work quickly, and you have to keep them up, and sometimes it seems you are going backwards, but then suddenly it's like a lightbulb goes on and overnight, your dog WILL make a huge leap forward in their training and it's all worthwhile.
> 
> I also think, from observing my dog, that although "he'll grow out of it" is NOT often true of many behaviours, sometimes they DO just need to grow up a bit - adolescence in a dog is every bit as trying as it is in a human and as long as you can ride the storm and still be consistent, even though they try your patience, it will pay dividends :thumbsup:


That is nice to hear...


----------



## Jess Pryce

Thankyou, you have shown their is light at the end of the tunnel. Trying to teach my 7month old border collie that im more interesting then any dog is very hard work and im making slow progress lol. But will keep at it!


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## Jess Pryce

This has given me hoping reading all this. I have a 9month old collie, who has just done her bronze award, but shes very playful and just wants to run up to other dogs and meet them and if she cant she barks. We are starting agility soon and having a few privet lessons to get her to focus on me, because as soon as another dog is there all concentration has gone.
I feel like im putting so much work and time into her and nothing is working, but reading all the above comments i now feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel and i just need to keep going. So thankyou


----------



## Twiggy

Jess Pryce said:


> This has given me hoping reading all this. I have a 9month old collie, who has just done her bronze award, but shes very playful and just wants to run up to other dogs and meet them and if she cant she barks. We are starting agility soon and having a few privet lessons to get her to focus on me, because as soon as another dog is there all concentration has gone.
> I feel like im putting so much work and time into her and nothing is working, but reading all the above comments i now feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel and i just need to keep going. So thankyou


You'll get there and nine months is still very young. My little rescue collie is four years old now and still loves socialising with other dogs and handlers (too much IMO) but once she's on the start line at an agility show, her concentration is absolute.


----------



## Macdowell

rachyni said:


> I'm currently in floods of tears because I've just been shouted at by some horrible woman because my gsp boy who is very sweet and friendly and who I've worked hard training is ' out of control, aggressive with his hackles up' he loves other dogs and I have problems getting him to leave them alone ... But I feel really despondent and will be nervous now when I take him out. I'm pretty sure its not aggression just excitement. . he never growls or barks but doesn't react when the other dog tells him to go away ... What can I do ?


Hi, rachyni, you don't have a problem with your dogs behaviour, it's the woman who upset you that has a problem with hers. Carry on as you are cause no one knows your dog better than you and it's blatantly clear you are exactly what a dog needs in an owner. Keep on loving and living because unfortunately there are some people who are so un happy they ain't satisfied till they spoil someone else's day. Show your dog you are still that confident and responsible owner and he will be all the better for it. What's more important, your dogs happiness or this horrible woman's attitude? Who I now suspect you couldn't give two hoots for. Don't change a single thing because of that wretched so and so.
We are completely on your side.


----------



## Labrador Lady

Goodness reading this post has been a great reassurance.....my lab pup is 14 months old and is very 'tuned into' me at home ( without distractions).....or at rally obedience classes.....but when until we get out on a walk then new sights/smells/sounds take over and he completely ignores me, regardless of the delicious treats i have on me. I've tried practising commands with gradually increasing distractions, but he seems to switch between completely focussed, to completely distracted, with no in between. Like Rachyni said, it worries me that my dog also doesn't seem to pick up on the cues when another dog tells him to go away - he just continues to bounce around and try to play. I don't understand why as he has been around many other dogs from the day we got him.....Im just now hoping he will grow out of it.

Its can make you feel hugely despondent if you have been investing time and energy training your usually obedient dog......who then routinely ignores you when other dogs/people arrive. So thanks from me to everyone who replied....encourages me to keep on with the training and consistency.


----------



## pickledtickle

Labrador Lady said:


> Its can make you feel hugely despondent if you have been investing time and energy training your usually obedient dog......who then routinely ignores you when other dogs/people arrive.


I was reading this thread...so about us. My pup is just 3 months old, I know we still have time to grow... Generally speaking she's a great puppy, very smart and intelligent, learns fast with a bit of stubbornness of a Samoyed hehe. She already knows Sit, Down, Stop, No and Look at me. Most of the times we have a great contact and everyone who knows us says it's incredible how she looks at me, listens with that eye contact etc. knowing we are together only one month. But... Then there are those times she has a selective hearing... And when everything else is more interesting and exciting than me, treats and toys. When she sees another dog/child/cyclist/runner and is on leash I can call her like 10 times and she won't react nor even when I show her the treat... She tries to pull me towards the object of the interest or if I won't let she will stand and stare stupidly on it. When this happens while she's off leash, she'll run towards the object and I cant recall her back, basically I can disappear and she won't even notice... 
Like this morning at the park she was following a runner and not coming back when called... If I was not going to pick her up (read: To run to catch them) she'd be long gone. I was so angry that moment and I put her immediately on leash... When we saw the runner again she was pulling and jumping to get there... And she didn't react on me calling her, showing treats nor the squeaky ball. I'll try to have a toy we use only when on walks to see if that will help. 
I feel quite desperate for this... Also because it's not always like that - later, in the evening she was a perfect dog... Listening, not pulling and I could get her attention away from a dog with a treat and asked her to sit... She was walking without wanting to get in every store open... We had an amazing walk. Because I had the magic treat AND she wanted to get that treat opposite this morning. She was looking on my with shiny eyes... I really don't get why she changes so suddenly to a dog that knows and hears nothing. Anyway...I love her a lot and the work is worth effort even if those moments when she makes me feel down I lose any hope in what I'm doing.


----------



## Matthewj

that's an encouraging post, i've been having the same issues with our border collie pup. Shes 51/2 months old, when we are in a park she is pretty good with getting the ball and her recall is also very good, but she always runs off to another dog and for some other reason she will also run after a small child and jump up at them - Im contemplating buying one of those really long training leads.


----------



## Rafa

I think you really do need to buy a training line, sooner rather than later, and keep her onlead in the meantime.

Running at children and jumping up could land you, and her, in serious trouble.

I realise she probably means no harm, but the Parent of a child may well not see it that way.


----------



## Matthewj

Yes, we are going to get one, having said that though today, she was excellent and ignored everyone else.....but better to be safe than sorry...


----------



## Simon Harris

Really nice to read some of these comments... I thought I was the only one that couldn't let my dog off lead. She's been on a long training lead for over a year now as i can't trust her running off. She runs to find a dog (or cat!) and we got to a point where she would escape out the front door. 

Long line has been great for is to give her that extra space to walk and when we have a secure area then we can let her off.


----------



## Matthewj

Update: Bella has come on really well now. We are lucky that where we live has a park with many, many dog walkers who meet up daily. We have been going there now for about 3months and Bella has met most of the dogs several times and had a good run around with them. Now, she seems not to be bothered at running after any dogs anymore and just wants to play with her ball...next challenge : People and Children - she is getting better.


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## Bigdogswinmyheart

We've been trying for 6 months to get recall on our rescue dog (she was 10 months then), if she sees another dog she's away. We have through trial and error (and with lots of training and training lessons) discovered that a small clip lock box that rattles we can hold her attention and also she's a lot better when dogs walk past. The main problem we have is she is massive and can scare people and other dogs. (Although soooooo gentle when she gets to them the bounce of excitement is terrifying). Thank You for the encouragement, I was starting to lose hope.


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## Lennor Magill

Colliepoodle said:


> ... Just a little encouraging post. This is difficult to write without sounding boasty or condescending so please be assured that it isn't meant to be either.
> 
> My girl is 11 months and I got her originally to hopefully compete at Obedience with. She is very bright and I'm very happy with her training in the class situation but she has ALWAYS been VERY interested in other dogs. Much as she loves her ball and tuggy, if there was another dog on the horizon I didn't have a hope.
> 
> She's not long had her first season and although I know some people still take their bitches out, I didn't want to take the chance so I kept her in for the requisite 3 weeks. I did LOADS more with her around the house and garden though, more training, more playing and it's really paid off.
> 
> She is more focussed on me and although still enjoys playing with other dogs, the obsession has gone. She is just as interested in me as she is other dogs now. But it HAS been hard work. I always take loads of yummy treats out, and randomly treat her just for coming back to me, even if I haven't called her. I surprise her by producing her ball at times, and chucking it in random directions (I am very good at throwing in random directions - I throw like a girl and it never goes where I want it to anyway lol).
> 
> I just wanted to assure those who are a bit despondent and losing heart (I did, on and off!) that training techniques DO work. But they don't always work quickly, and you have to keep them up, and sometimes it seems you are going backwards, but then suddenly it's like a lightbulb goes on and overnight, your dog WILL make a huge leap forward in their training and it's all worthwhile.
> 
> I also think, from observing my dog, that although "he'll grow out of it" is NOT often true of many behaviours, sometimes they DO just need to grow up a bit - adolescence in a dog is every bit as trying as it is in a human and as long as you can ride the storm and still be consistent, even though they try your patience, it will pay dividends :thumbsup:


Great post. I have a greyhound puppy with selective hearing. He will obey commands only when he wants to. Feeding times he's spot on with come,sit, stay ,wait etc, other wise it's a battle of wits. From your post it seems perseverance is the key to success. He's six months in a few days, so still very young . Hopefully he'll grow out of being contrary, although he's very loving with it. He makes me smile a lot at his trying to hoodwink me. 
You have given me hope for his improvement.


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## DoodleDoo

Something I really found made a huge difference with our pup, was to stop feeding her from a bowl. We were recommended to do this by a trainer, and she gets all of her food hand-fed whilst out and about and training. It really has made a huge difference to her focus and recall. Probably only on option if you feed your dog kibble though!


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## Lennor Magill

DoodleDoo said:


> Something I really found made a huge difference with our pup, was to stop feeding her from a bowl. We were recommended to do this by a trainer, and she gets all of her food hand-fed whilst out and about and training. It really has made a huge difference to her focus and recall. Probably only on option if you feed your dog kibble though!


Thanks so much for your advice. My dear boy is fed on a raw diet. He has lots of treats as a training aid and they work at the time . He's a great one for ignoring you when he's got his selective hearing hat on. 
Will persevere though. Still a puppy, so there's hope.


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## Lennor Magill

Labrador Lady said:


> Goodness reading this post has been a great reassurance.....my lab pup is 14 months old and is very 'tuned into' me at home ( without distractions).....or at rally obedience classes.....but when until we get out on a walk then new sights/smells/sounds take over and he completely ignores me, regardless of the delicious treats i have on me. I've tried practising commands with gradually increasing distractions, but he seems to switch between completely focussed, to completely distracted, with no in between. Like Rachyni said, it worries me that my dog also doesn't seem to pick up on the cues when another dog tells him to go away - he just continues to bounce around and try to play. I don't understand why as he has been around many other dogs from the day we got him.....Im just now hoping he will grow out of it.
> 
> Its can make you feel hugely despondent if you have been investing time and energy training your usually obedient dog......who then routinely ignores you when other dogs/people arrive. So thanks from me to everyone who replied....encourages me to keep on with the training and consistency.


My puppy is the same. He is focused until he get outside. The sights ,sounds and smells turns him into another dog. He doesn't understand the cues from other dogs either and i am afraid he will get hurt, he's pretty exuberant where other dogs are concerned and gets very excited. He's already had a few nicks from rebuffs from other dogs, but doesn't seem to be afraid. I have now taken to keeping him on a short training lead when out walking. He's already 28 kilos so very strong. I have to work hard with the aid of treats to keep him to heel.
From your post I see there's hope. Will keep persevering


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## leashedForLife

.
"ditch the bowl" can be done with any diet -
obv, U need to plan how to make that work when it's raw diet, BARF, home-cooked, etc, but it's def possible.

.
.
.


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## Lennor Magill

leashedForLife said:


> .
> "ditch the bowl" can be done with any diet -
> obv, U need to plan how to make that work when it's raw diet, BARF, home-cooked, etc, but it's def possible.
> 
> .
> .
> .


A very difficult feat indeed. It's not practical and almost unattainable. It would probably be very time consuming


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## smokeybear

DoodleDoo said:


> Something I really found made a huge difference with our pup, was to stop feeding her from a bowl. We were recommended to do this by a trainer, and she gets all of her food hand-fed whilst out and about and training. It really has made a huge difference to her focus and recall. Probably only on option if you feed your dog kibble though!


Nope, my dogs are raw fed and when puppies and even now they rarely get their meals for free, they get fed during training including raw and I have taken out raw tripe with me before now! You can cut chicken wings into 3/4 pieces with shears etc.


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## smokeybear

Lennor Magill said:


> A very difficult feat indeed. It's not practical and almost unattainable. It would probably be very time consuming


Not difficult, very practical if you take out plastic bags and definitely not unattainable nor timeconsuming


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## leashedForLife

.
well... plopping a bowl of whatever on the floor is certainly quick, but that it's "simple & easy" doesn't mean it isn't a waste of a terrific potential training-resource, eh?
.
.
using good food as a payoff for desired behavior is, ultimately, far-more efficient than just "giving it away" for nothing.
.
as i said, it takes a bit of pre-planning, but no - it's neither impossible nor time-consuming drudgery.

it's pretty simple.
.
.
.


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## Lennor Magill

smokeybear said:


> Nope, my dogs are raw fed and when puppies and even now they rarely get their meals for free, they get fed during training including raw and I have taken out raw tripe with me before now! You can cut chicken wings into 3/4 pieces with shears etc.


I will try the wings, the also have bite size pieces of Turkey necks which I will also use. Thanks for your advice. I will keep working on Morgan. He's great fun and lovely to be with


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## Lennor Magill

leashedForLife said:


> .
> well... plopping a bowl of whatever on the floor is certainly quick, but that it's "simple & easy" doesn't mean it isn't a waste of a terrific potential training-resource, eh?
> .
> .
> using good food as a payoff for desired behavior is, ultimately, far-more efficient than just "giving it away" for nothing.
> .
> as i said, it takes a bit of pre-planning, but no - it's neither impossible nor time-consuming drudgery.
> 
> it's pretty simple.
> .
> .
> .





Lennor Magill said:


> I will try the wings, the also have bite size pieces of Turkey necks which I will also use. Thanks for your advice. I will keep working on Morgan. He's great fun and lovely to be with


I do tend to do basic training before Morgan can start eating. Stuff like walking to heel when I take him to feed making him sit then down then having him stay/wait before he's allowed to start eating . He knows this drill and it's reinforced at every meal to the point where he sometimes go to feeding point and wait.
I will take on board the other advice making him work harder for a meal. I will also use it on walks to teach recall. Thank you for your input


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## ColliePoo

I can't believe how long ago I started this thread!!

My girl is nearly 10!!


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## Daisy the Great Dane

Colliepoodle said:


> ... Just a little encouraging post. This is difficult to write without sounding boasty or condescending so please be assured that it isn't meant to be either.
> 
> My girl is 11 months and I got her originally to hopefully compete at Obedience with. She is very bright and I'm very happy with her training in the class situation but she has ALWAYS been VERY interested in other dogs. Much as she loves her ball and tuggy, if there was another dog on the horizon I didn't have a hope.
> 
> She's not long had her first season and although I know some people still take their bitches out, I didn't want to take the chance so I kept her in for the requisite 3 weeks. I did LOADS more with her around the house and garden though, more training, more playing and it's really paid off.
> 
> She is more focussed on me and although still enjoys playing with other dogs, the obsession has gone. She is just as interested in me as she is other dogs now. But it HAS been hard work. I always take loads of yummy treats out, and randomly treat her just for coming back to me, even if I haven't called her. I surprise her by producing her ball at times, and chucking it in random directions (I am very good at throwing in random directions - I throw like a girl and it never goes where I want it to anyway lol).
> 
> I just wanted to assure those who are a bit despondent and losing heart (I did, on and off!) that training techniques DO work. But they don't always work quickly, and you have to keep them up, and sometimes it seems you are going backwards, but then suddenly it's like a lightbulb goes on and overnight, your dog WILL make a huge leap forward in their training and it's all worthwhile.
> 
> I also think, from observing my dog, that although "he'll grow out of it" is NOT often true of many behaviours, sometimes they DO just need to grow up a bit - adolescence in a dog is every bit as trying as it is in a human and as long as you can ride the storm and still be consistent, even though they try your patience, it will pay dividends :thumbsup:


This is nice


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## VickyandNero

I am so glad to see this.
I have a now 18 month old German Shepherd and he is brill and so clever, such a softy.
We have been going to dog training for a year now and are in the high class and he has calmed down now and knows training is fun but not for playing with other dogs.
The biggest problem he has is that if he ever sees a dog he has to say Hello.
I do walk him off lead but only with no dogs around and put him on the lead if there is.
Nothing at the moment seems to move his attention off a dog and I have chicken on me for every walk.
I do train recall at home in the garden and in a dog park on a long leash, but he still really struggles to recall away from another dog, no matter how far away it is.
He has doggy friends which he plays with about once a month and is very friendly with all dogs.

Please any ideas or specific games I can play with him as I thought it would calm down a bit by now.


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## Siskin

Mine is now four and a half years, but still likes to greet other dogs, but does respond well to me more now and will come back even if she is on the way to say hello. One major things really concentrates her mind on us to the extent that dogs will walk right past her and she will ignore them, but it requires water to swim in and stones to throw. We discovered this when walking along beaches, she loves to swim in the sea, but even more so if we throw in a stone for her to swim to. She doesn't try to get them or anything, once she arrives at the spot where the stone splashed in the water, she will turn to look at you for you to throw in another stone for her to swim to the splash.

What I'm saying here is you need to find that particular toy or game that he loves above else that will totally consume his mind and leave little room for going off to say hello. It could be a game of tug or a game seeking treats that have been tossed onto the floor, it's just finding that special something.
He's still young at 18 months and he will gradually grow out of the need as he matures.


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## VickyandNero

Thanks for replying.
I think he is always going to be friendly but just want to be able to trust him more, that he inst going to leg it across a field.
We will keep trying toys, but he isn't that food focused at the moment.
He will chase sticks or balls, but nothing compared to another dog.


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## tabelmabel

My pup is 7 months and just came into her first season yesterday. I have had my eye on this thread in preparation! So i kept her in yesterday and we did lots of wait training in the garden and she can now wait in one spot for quite a while whilst i hide her clam toy under a bush or something. And then she is good at sniffing it out. I had put skin off the turkey in it and wow does she love that!!

So we tried putting the turkey skin on the kitchen floor with her next to it. My daughter held her by the collar and i called her to me from the other end of the kitchen and - guess what - she went straight for the turkey skin and it just seemed to suck right into her without even touching the sides!!!

So there's a thing to work on!


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## Sylvarie

Love this post, I’ve posted on a forum before to ask for some advice after my 6 month old lab went charging after another dog to play, and unfortunately the other dog didn’t like it, but the owner started walking him with her stick, put me off letting him off lead for a long time, he’s now 18 months and I keep him on if other dogs on the lead are around, he’s so lovely to other dogs and playful, but he will bolt if he sees another dog, other than that his recall is good, in the last few weeks I’ve been researching about games to play indoors to keep his crazy little mind occupied, I’m just wondering if anyone can tell me some of the games they are playing?? We do hide the treats, and I’m going to start teaching him the names of his toys, he loves kongs.....I also have a ten year old and 6 year old children, so anything they can do with him? Thanks for any help


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## Jess Coleman

My 4 year old Bernese Mountain dog is very hyper and overly reactive to other dogs, if she sees one she used to drag me over the road...I have got it to a point where she doesn't do this now, however still can't let her off in the field because she runs up to other people/dogs to play which automatically makes them think she's gonna attack. She's still a puppy in her mind but I just want to take her on proper walks in fields, she's not overly bad at recall but once there's a dog in sight there's no chance


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## Tammy H

You have no idea how perfectly timed your post is. I have a 5 mth border terrier/boxer and we are doing quite a bit of training. The last few mornings on our walks, which are around an off-leash dog lake and full of small critters and dogs to obsess over, I feel like we've regressed a month back. I keep her on her leash and she was doing great but recently hit a new stubborn phase where she really wants to drive the walk and I'm along for the ride. Felt like banging my head into a wall by the time I got home this morning. I know she'll have ups and downs, I know she has a solid foundation and is progressing well and I know it'll click, but it sure is nice to hear it all comes together from someone's personal experience. Thanks for sharing!!


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## Tracey3cats

Hi, this is very reassuring to read, my border collie is nearly five months old. She was coming along lovely. We'd even started off lead walking around the local park but in the last week she seems to have lost the plot. She has become distracted by everything, started running off, not responding to recall etc. It's very frustrating and I know consistent training is needed but it is quite disheartening. I guess patience is the key!


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## Janno735078

Siskin said:


> Mine is now four and a half years, but still likes to greet other dogs, but does respond well to me more now and will come back even if she is on the way to say hello. One major things really concentrates her mind on us to the extent that dogs will walk right past her and she will ignore them, but it requires water to swim in and stones to throw. We discovered this when walking along beaches, she loves to swim in the sea, but even more so if we throw in a stone for her to swim to. She doesn't try to get them or anything, once she arrives at the spot where the stone splashed in the water, she will turn to look at you for you to throw in another stone for her to swim to the splash.
> 
> What I'm saying here is you need to find that particular toy or game that he loves above else that will totally consume his mind and leave little room for going off to say hello. It could be a game of tug or a game seeking treats that have been tossed onto the floor, it's just finding that special something.
> He's still young at 18 months and he will gradually grow out of the need as he matures.


Thank you for this. It's so encouraging to find others having the same "problem" with our friendly dogs, and to know that with training and persistence, there is hope! With our outgoing 16 month old Golden Retriever, nothing beats the attention of other owners and playing with other dogs. It's like I'm not even there! If I let him off lead now (if the other owner and dog are OK with it), he'll play manically for a while and then calm down, and then he might steal a glance in my direction, which is an improvement from when he was even a few months ago. I've been told that he'll eventually calm down, at 5 years old!!!!


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## Siskin

Janno735078 said:


> Thank you for this. It's so encouraging to find others having the same "problem" with our friendly dogs, and to know that with training and persistence, there is hope! With our outgoing 16 month old Golden Retriever, nothing beats the attention of other owners and playing with other dogs. It's like I'm not even there! If I let him off lead now (if the other owner and dog are OK with it), he'll play manically for a while and then calm down, and then he might steal a glance in my direction, which is an improvement from when he was even a few months ago. I've been told that he'll eventually calm down, at 5 years old!!!!




Mine started to noticeably calm down by the age of two years, your youngster is still in the middle of adolescence which makes him even less likely to listen. His testosterone levels are very high at the moment, higher then they will ever be again and this combined with his age makes him a great big playful and silly lump. Goldens just enjoy everything and spend their time looking for even more things to enjoy, they could never be described as aloof.

Have the most tastiest treat you can find, for mine it's anything fishy, and when he does glance in your direction try and call him over to you waving the treat, running backwards if possible. Hopefully once he appreciates what you have for him he will be inclined to come to you rather then totally ignore you. Give treat, praise like mad, hold collar for a few seconds then let him go and play again saying 'go play'. Gradually he will realise he is getting the best of both worlds, tasty treat and a bit of playtime. Getting him to start to listen to you now will pay off dividends when he's older.


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## Bukhara

I'm experiencing similar issues with my 13 Jack month old Jack Russell cross.

She's a lovely dog and I wouldn't change her for the world. Indoors and in the back garden, she'll do anything I ask of her. In the park, it's a different story.

She loves other dogs, but I think she loves other people more. You'd swear I'm beating her black and blue the way she craves attention from other people. I'm constantly on the look out to make sure the coast is clear. Of course, she only wants to play but other people (and dogs) may prefer to be left alone.

You can see there is no thought process in her mind. It's completely impulsive and automatic. She sees someone and runs immediately.

She is not food oriented. Rarely interested in treats. She eats them, but in her own time. I often see another guy in the park who has an enormous German Shepherd, and she'll devour his dog treats on the spot! With mine (same treats), she'll usually leave them on the grass. Indoors, they are left on the carpet for hours sometimes until she eats it (and we're not giving her treats all the time, believe me).

I'd rather sometimes that other people would give her a slap instead of indulging her as this bad behaviour is almost always rewarded with the other person giving her a stroke and attention.

Toys, frisbees, treats, I've tried everything. It's difficult to find something more interesting than a smelly bush. Impossible to find something more interesting than another human.


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## Barkingmad57

I love this thread, it's so frustrating not to be able to let Dylan off the lead around other dogs!! He's now 15 months old, and although he is no longer playing with other dogs too roughly, he is still more interested in them than anything when he's out.

At the moment we walk him on the lead around other dogs, and try and get him to focus on us if he sees a dog too far away to greet, or if we can't avoid meeting them will let him say a quick hello then move on. He has been getting a lot better at this. He's also back at a training class, and does manage to focus on what we're doing around the other dogs, but still very interested in them!

I have been taking him to a small dog park in the last week or so, so that he can have some time off lead with other dogs, we try and go at the same time so that he meets and gets to know a few dogs. He is very good now and plays with them very well, no rushing up to them - in fact if a new dog comes in he will lay down and wait for them to approach him. And if another dog doesn't want to play he will leave them alone.

I know that some people say he shouldn't be allowed to play with dogs at all if he's over interested, but he gets so frustrated if he doesn't get any contact, and I think it would then make him too reactive at training. We don't have family or friends close with dogs he can get to know, so the dog park is the next best thing really, I take him about 3 times a week. Now he's at a class again it's given us more ideas to train him at home too. 

One of the people in the training class who has a lot of experience with dogs says we should get him neutered, we were going to wait until 18 months old, but would it help his reactivity? He's a GSD cross.

Hope we are on the right track- teenage years don't last forever i know, but it sometimes feels like it!!


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## Chrissie25

Hi.. I have a 5 year old male pug who is still intact. We go on pug walks with around 15/20 other pugs, he doesn't try and hump any of them but he seems to obsess other 1 particular pug who he seems to have his nose stuck to the pugs butt constantly, he doesn't take any notice of me I have put him back on a lead but he pulls on it to get to the other pug and if I left him off after a cooling period he still goes back to the pugs butt. He doesn't really take any notice of the other pugs there either. When the pug he obsesses over his not at the walk he just runs around the others like normal.Why is this and how can I get him to stop this obsessive behaviour.


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## angela bacon

hi I have 2 dogs one is ok at recall until another dog is coming towards us as soon as she can see one she lies down on her belly and crawls along then gets up and runs to the dog she just sniffs then goes on walking I do have treats with me but this happens when she has got in front of me she just goes deaf


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