# Are my two kittens fighting? (Video)



## Catticus86 (Mar 25, 2017)

Hi all,

I have one male kitten, Asriel, who's approx 5 months old. We got him just before Christmas and he was a tiny mite - only 6 weeks old, very underweight and he had bad tummy problems. He basically came from a bad background and didn't have a nice start in life.

2 months after we got Asriel we got a female kitten, Arti. She was 8.5 weeks old and she's now around 14 weeks old. She came from a much better background - she stayed with her mum until we bought her and she lived in a happy home with her brothers and sisters etc.

We got Arti because we felt Asriel would be happier with a playmate. However it hasn't really worked out that way. Asriel has taken a long time to adjust and he's done a lot of hissing and growling along the way.

We have taken our time with scent swapping, gradual introductions, feeding them together etc.

Over time, Asriel stopped hissing and growling. After about 3 weeks we let them interact more with each other. However Asriel would chase Arti the whole time, backing her into corners/under the sofa etc. He'd bop her with his paws - and to be fair, she'd often bop/chase him back. Asriel tended to "win" though and we'd seperate them after a short time (10-15 mins or so) because we didn't think it was fair.

Last weekend, 4 weeks after we got her, and after encouragement from our vet, we decided to let them try and "work out their differences."

They basically did the chase/bop thing for 2 and half hours solid and eventually they were so knackered they gave up and went for a nap next to each other.

We thought they'd worked it out, hooray! So we continued with supervised interactions. However these have become a lot more... aggressive?

I'm posting a video below of how they interact now because I'm not sure if this is playing/regular behaviour or if we need to split them up and reintroduce them more slowly again?

This is basically what they do all the time. They'll have 2 minute breathers but then they're at it again.

They both seem to be equal perpetrators. Sometimes it will get so rough that Arti will meow (seemingly in pain) but there are never any scratches/there hasn't been any blood. Arti always goes back for more as well.

So... Help please! It's been 5 weeks now and I want my kittens to just get over it/get along


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## anachronism (Jan 30, 2014)

They are playing! 
My three play silly like this, especially my older 2 (3 and 2 and a half) 

It looks very brutal but they are just playing


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Yes , playing .


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## Catticus86 (Mar 25, 2017)

Hey, thanks for your input. Do you think so, even with swishy tails/ears pinned back? 

I'm just worried because he's so much bigger than her, and he often pins her down.


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## anachronism (Jan 30, 2014)

Catticus86 said:


> Hey, thanks for your input. Do you think so, even with swishy tails/ears pinned back?
> 
> I'm just worried because he's so much bigger than her, and he often pins her down.


I worried about this as mine will launch at each other, bunny kick faces, tails swishing etc. And with them both being 5kg they dont half make a thud when they tumble about. But they are happy to share space and from what I have read proper cat fights is a lot of vocalisation, yowling and trying to get the other to back down.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

They're pausing and he pats her to initiate play again . 
If she really didn't like it she would run away . Play does get very rough so if you are worried that its getting out of hand you can split them up . 
Play is practising for the future so they go through the motions of fighting but it is play at this stage .


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I agree with the others, the kittens are playing, and it appears they are equally matched, i.e. one kitten is not being victimised by the other. However it is worth noting that the tabby cat (Asriel?) has a slightly bushed tail, which shows he is getting quite wound up. 

There was nothing serious apparent on the video but if Asriel's 'attacks' on Arti were to become more intense and persistent to the point where she was squealing or getting the worst of it, that would be the time I would intervene with distraction techniques with fishing rod toys or feeding them both treats. 

The kitties are still at the size where they can't do a lot of damage to each other in their play fights. But if you are worried about them, then it is a good idea to use a pair of pet nail clippers to trim the very tips off the claws on their front paws (if they will let you handle their paws). One of the nurses at the vets will show you how to do it if you are unsure.


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## Catticus86 (Mar 25, 2017)

chillminx said:


> I agree with the others, the kittens are playing, and it appears they are equally matched, i.e. one kitten is not being victimised by the other. However it is worth noting that the tabby cat (Asriel?) has a slightly bushed tail, which shows he is getting quite wound up.
> 
> There was nothing serious apparent on the video but if Asriel's 'attacks' on Arti were to become more intense and persistent to the point where she was squealing or getting the worst of it, that would be the time I would intervene with distraction techniques with fishing rod toys or feeding them both treats.
> 
> The kitties are still at the size where they can't do a lot of damage to each other in their play fights. But if you are worried about them, then it is a good idea to use a pair of pet nail clippers to trim the very tips off the claws on their front paws (if they will let you handle their paws). One of the nurses at the vets will show you how to do it if you are unsure.


Thanks, getting their nails clipped is a good idea!

She does squeal sometimes, and then we do jump in and split them up, but she -always- goes back for more.

Do you think there's an element trying to establish dominance? Or is it all play?


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## Catticus86 (Mar 25, 2017)

anachronism said:


> I worried about this as mine will launch at each other, bunny kick faces, tails swishing etc. And with them both being 5kg they dont half make a thud when they tumble about. But they are happy to share space and from what I have read proper cat fights is a lot of vocalisation, yowling and trying to get the other to back down.


They hiss every now and again, I guess when the play is being taken too far by the other kitten? But there is no yowling or anything.

But yeah, ours make a huge thud, and they're tiny, so I can't imagine what 5kg of tumbling sounds like haha.


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## Catticus86 (Mar 25, 2017)

kimthecat said:


> They're pausing and he pats her to initiate play again .
> If she really didn't like it she would run away . Play does get very rough so if you are worried that its getting out of hand you can split them up .
> Play is practising for the future so they go through the motions of fighting but it is play at this stage .


Great, thanks. You've all given me a bit more confidence to just let them be


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## anachronism (Jan 30, 2014)

Catticus86 said:


> They hiss every now and again, I guess when the play is being taken too far by the other kitten? But there is no yowling or anything.
> 
> But yeah, ours make a huge thud, and they're tiny, so I can't imagine what 5kg of tumbling sounds like haha.


Like a herd of elephants! Even worse when they are running up and down the stairs! I thought cats were meant to be light of foot


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Catticus86 - If she goes back for more, it shows she is a feisty little thing who can hold her own, bless her! 

I hope it is just kittens playing. If they were behaving like that once they are older e.g. past sexual maturity, there might be an intent of one cat to try and push the other cat out of the territory. There is no hierarchy amongst cats. They either want the territory to themselves, or they are prepared to share (to a greater or lesser extent) with another cat. (or cats)

Cats do not naturally share resources or territory with other cats once they are past kittenhood. However if they have grown up together they are statistically more likely to be willing to share once they become adolescents and adults. Hopefully your two, having been introduced as kittens will be Ok together as adults and will decide to share the resources and the territory nicely. 

You can prepare things at this stage for them to share the home harmoniously as adult cats by reducing the competition for resources. Food is a major resource and cats are very protective of their 'prey' (food). So it is important to give them separate feeding stations at least 10 feet apart and preferably at different heights, e.g one on the floor, one on a table, shelf or worktop. Do not allow them to eat from each others bowls.

Another major resource is toiletting areas. So with litter trays - a minimum of 3 trays between them (but I provide 4 trays for 2 cats), and spread the trays around the home, not grouped together.

Lots of scratch posts and scratch pads, several to every room, and always one by the door so they can scent mark with their claws as they enter the room.

A couple of tall cat trees so both cats can sit up high and snooze when they want time on their own. Or shelves fitted to the wall so they can have safe access up and down to the top of a cupboard or wardrobe.

As I say, the above may not seem essential right now when they are kittens but it will be important when they are older, so it is as well to start now.

Asriel at 5 months is ready for neutering if he has not already had the snip. If he is still 'entire' some of his play with Arti could be sexually driven. Arti could become sexually mature in the next couple of weeks. Kittens can get pregnant at 4 months old.


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## Catticus86 (Mar 25, 2017)

@chillminx she's very feisty. She has a boatload of confidence - she jumps higher, sneaks into new places, loves meeting new people. Asriel is very different. He's not so adventurous and is quite timid when other people visit. He's also quite cautious generally e.g. Will take a long time to try jumping onto a new surface. And he still likes to suckle on my ear lobe, bless him... so I'm sure he's struggling with the change.

Asriel is due to get the snip at the end of April. I asked the vet if we should fast track it and she said it should be fine. Fingers crossed eh...

We have three litter trays, two scratching posts, a cat tree and loads of toys. We're going to let them out when they're older so I hope that will relieve some of the territorial behaviour?

We do feed them apart. Probably about 6ft. They tend to try and eat out of each other's bowl, but there's no aggression at that point... they just let it happen?

They just had quite a negative interaction. Asriel was biting Arti an she ended up meowing a few times and Asriel wouldn't let go


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## cava14 una (Oct 21, 2008)

My two boys are brothers and they knock seven bells out of each other sometimes. All good clean fun though


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Catticus86 - leaving Asriel to be neutered until he is 6 mths old, (at the end of April) is honestly not a great idea. Is there any reason for leaving it that late? He could have started spraying in the house by then, particularly if there is competition between him and Arti for resources. Note: a sexually mature un-neutered kitten who starts spraying indoors does not always stop spraying once neutered. 

Bear in mind also that Asriel could have impregnated Arti by then, as she will be 4 months old in a few weeks and quite possibly sexually mature - plenty of kittens are at 4 months.

The advice of International Cat Care, which is a highly reputable organisation, is to neuter kittens at 4 months nowadays. There is nothing to be gained by leaving it any later than that, especially when you have a male and female kitten together. The only exception might be if a kitten has been very ill and is very underweight at 4 mths. But if Asriel weighs 2 kg or more he is Ok to be neutered.

If your own vet is not happy to neuter Asriel now for some reason, I would look for a local vet who will do it a.s.a.p. You can always go back to your own vet in the future.

Feeding them 6 feet apart, both at the same level is not the best idea. Nor is allowing them to eat from each other's bowls. It encourages competition, which is one thing you want to avoid, in order to create the basis of a harmonious household for the future.


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## Catticus86 (Mar 25, 2017)

Hi all, just wanted to give a quick update.

Asriel finally got neutered on Friday morning. It's now Sunday and he's so already -so- much better with Arti  Before, he was getting wound up by absolutely eveything she did - she couldn't walk past him without Asriel going in for a swipe or pouncing on her. Now he's much more chilled out when he's around her. They're sleeping on the bed beside each other right now. A few minutes ago he was grooming her as well - first time that has happened!

I know it's probably too soon to tell but so happy there are finally some more positive interactions between them.

Bonus pic:


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## claire8234 (Mar 8, 2013)

THats great, please just make sure you get your other cat neutered


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