# Changing Food from Arden Grange?



## bluejules (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi

I have a mini schanuzer 2 years old and she is currently on Arden grange sensitive as she has a sensitive stomach, I was thinking about switching as I was reading about some of the ingredients, and came across beet pulp which some were saying is not a high quality ingredient and can cause liver problems, which she has had in the past. I was looking at Orijen and wondered if anyone had experience with this and if anyone knows about this beet pulp and if it is ok or not? Or if there is a better food out there?

Many Thanks!
Jules


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

I've not heard that Beet Pulp can cause liver problems. I know it is considered by some as a "filler" but as long as your dog doesn't have a specific allergy to it, it should be fine.

Ness, Nutritionist at Arden Grange, is excellent - why not ask her advice by e-mail?

I really like AG as a food - tried Orijen but my dog couldn't keep his weight on it.
AG have a comprehensive website - how about having a look on there?


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

Beet pulp is a good source of fibre for your dogs poop.
And good source for energy.
AG is an excellent quality complete.


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## bluejules (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi

thanks for your comments.

this is where I read it:

Dog Food Reviews - Arden Grange Adult Lamb & Rice - Powered by ReviewPost

it basically says:

*Beet pulp is a low quality ingredient and filler. It is a by-product, being dried residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar. It is a controversial ingredient in dog food, claimed by some manufacturers to be a good source of fibre, and derided by others as an ingredient added to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats and causing stress to kidney and liver in the process. We note that beet pulp is an ingredient that commonly causes problems for dogs, including allergies and ear infections, and prefer not to see it used in dog food. There are less controversial products around if additional fibre is required. We would prefer to see the use of whole eggs rather than egg powdert in the food.*

so I dont know how true that is because there seem to be mixed reviews. 
I was thinking of changing as well because she is so sensitive I thought it might be a good idea to elimate grain completely and I dont think orijen has any, although she does like the arden grange and seems well on it.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I have found this for you :-

_Beet Pulp, the isolated fibrous material from sugar beets, is another ingredient that has an undeservedly bad reputation. It is a very gentle, beneficial source of fiber that is not only generally very well tolerated, but also has specific properties that make it suitable as a source of nutrition for the beneficial bacteria that reside in the intestinal tract. The sugar is almost completely removed, what is left in the pulp is only about 1/5 the amount of sugar that you would find in a serving of carrots of equal size. It is also colorless and does not turn a dog's coat turn red, like urban legends claim. The argument that beet pulp is an "unnatural" ingredient is often brought up, but people who present this complaint seem to forget that it is also not natural for dogs to eat highly processed commercial products with a carb content of generally 40% and more, and a moisture content of only around 10% as opposed to a more natural 60-70%. Added fiber is required to make such formulations work for the pets who eat a dry diet. _

This is something that Lyceum posts each time the subject arises and thought you may like to see it. The other side of the coin so to speak.

Hope it doesnt confuse you too much


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I have found this for you :-
> 
> _Beet Pulp, the isolated fibrous material from sugar beets, is another ingredient that has an undeservedly bad reputation. It is a very gentle, beneficial source of fiber that is not only generally very well tolerated, but also has specific properties that make it suitable as a source of nutrition for the beneficial bacteria that reside in the intestinal tract. The sugar is almost completely removed, what is left in the pulp is only about 1/5 the amount of sugar that you would find in a serving of carrots of equal size. It is also colorless and does not turn a dog's coat turn red, like urban legends claim. The argument that beet pulp is an "unnatural" ingredient is often brought up, but people who present this complaint seem to forget that it is also not natural for dogs to eat highly processed commercial products with a carb content of generally 40% and more, and a moisture content of only around 10% as opposed to a more natural 60-70%. Added fiber is required to make such formulations work for the pets who eat a dry diet. _
> 
> ...


Thanks mum2heidi :thumbup:

I took that info from here

The Dog Food Project - Identifying better products


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

I was hoping you would appear sooner Lyceum  Took me ages to find it


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## chestersmum (Sep 18, 2009)

Hi

I have a mini schnauzer who was on orijen and tbh it really didn't agree with him. That said I know people with minis who thrive on it. It just didn't agree with mine

At the moment mine is on barking heads & royal canin calm food as he is v.nervous

Is it just the beet pulp that is putting you off Arden grange? or is it not agreeing with your dog?


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## bluejules (Sep 17, 2010)

its just the beet pulp, i just get paranoid over every little thing to be honest and i want her to be on the best food! she likes it and she doesnt seem to have any problems with it.


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## bluejules (Sep 17, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> I have found this for you :-
> 
> _Beet Pulp, the isolated fibrous material from sugar beets, is another ingredient that has an undeservedly bad reputation. It is a very gentle, beneficial source of fiber that is not only generally very well tolerated, but also has specific properties that make it suitable as a source of nutrition for the beneficial bacteria that reside in the intestinal tract. The sugar is almost completely removed, what is left in the pulp is only about 1/5 the amount of sugar that you would find in a serving of carrots of equal size. It is also colorless and does not turn a dog's coat turn red, like urban legends claim. The argument that beet pulp is an "unnatural" ingredient is often brought up, but people who present this complaint seem to forget that it is also not natural for dogs to eat highly processed commercial products with a carb content of generally 40% and more, and a moisture content of only around 10% as opposed to a more natural 60-70%. Added fiber is required to make such formulations work for the pets who eat a dry diet. _
> 
> ...


thanks. for the info, its soo confusing!! i think i'll just make sure she has no problems when she next gets checked at the vets and if not leave her on it
xxxxxx


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## chestersmum (Sep 18, 2009)

bluejules said:


> its just the beet pulp, i just get paranoid over every little thing to be honest and i want her to be on the best food! she likes it and she doesnt seem to have any problems with it.


I don't think you have anything to worry about. Arden grange is a good food

I would leave her on it and see how she goes

I know what you mean I'm over paranoid with Chester too!


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## bluejules (Sep 17, 2010)

chestersmum said:


> I don't think you have anything to worry about. Arden grange is a good food
> 
> I would leave her on it and see how she goes
> 
> I know what you mean I'm over paranoid with Chester too!


great thanks. I wouldnt normally be so paranoid but she got ill once with her liver and she had to stay overnight at the vets and she couldve died if we hadnt taken her in when we did, so since then im sooo paranoid!!
and she's very sensitive, i have to have her on a strict diet now, my mom gave her some ham fat once without me knowing and she was sick for ages!
I do give her human foods now and then but only boiled chicken, white fish and sometimes a bit of carrot, i read all of those things are ok so I hope so!


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

bluejules said:


> Hi
> 
> I have a mini schanuzer 2 years old and she is currently on Arden grange sensitive as she has a sensitive stomach, I was thinking about switching as I was reading about some of the ingredients, and came across beet pulp which some were saying is not a high quality ingredient and can cause liver problems, which she has had in the past. I was looking at Orijen and wondered if anyone had experience with this and if anyone knows about this beet pulp and if it is ok or not? Or if there is a better food out there?
> 
> ...


Arden Grange don't actullay manufacture there own food. It's made at the same place as burns, Iams, Pet shops "own brand" food. etc.......


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

stigDarley said:


> Arden Grange don't actullay manufacture there own food. It's made at the same place as burns, Iams, Pet shops "own brand" food. etc.......


You've said this repeatedly, never backed up your claim, and never said why its a bad thing.

Where a food is made is irrelevant, what goes into it, and the quality and sources of those ingredients, is what is important.


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

If she is getting on ok with it, I would stick with it. There will always be "fors" and "againsts", we just have to do the best we can with the info available and be led by our dogs as to what they are happiest with.

Where ever Arden Grange is made the customer service is excellent and they know their products, I would have no qualms in feeding their sensitive (if it were a bit cheaper )


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

Nonnie said:


> You've said this repeatedly, never backed up your claim, and never said why its a bad thing.
> 
> Where a food is made is irrelevant, what goes into it, and the quality and sources of those ingredients, is what is important.


Ring up Arden Grange, Burns, Iams fish for dogs own food etc... and ask them if there made at Golden Acres watch them all say yes.... ALOT of foods of variouse levels of quality all come out of the same factory. Just concerns me and I think people should be aware were there food is made at. As It's not declare on the packaging. It's important people have the info when making the decisions....... they can make an informed decistion. I've not "suggested" another brand of food. Just pointed out a fact, which i think was the whole point of the thread? But if it suits your dog and isn't full of E numbers stay with it!


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> If she is getting on ok with it, I would stick with it. There will always be "fors" and "againsts", we just have to do the best we can with the info available and be led by our dogs as to what they are happiest with.
> 
> Where ever Arden Grange is made the customer service is excellent and they know their products, I would have no qualms in feeding their sensitive (if it were a bit cheaper )


If you live near preston we can get it in for £43 ......


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## Ducky (Nov 23, 2008)

Nonnie said:


> You've said this repeatedly, never backed up your claim, and never said why its a bad thing.
> 
> Where a food is made is irrelevant, what goes into it, and the quality and sources of those ingredients, is what is important.


agreed, iv also tried to get the answer for this as well.



stigDarley said:


> Ring up Arden Grange, Burns, Iams fish for dogs own food etc... and ask them if there made at Golden Acres watch them all say yes.... ALOT of foods of variouse levels of quality all come out of the same factory. Just concerns me and I think people should be aware were there food is made at. As It's not declare on the packaging. It's important people have the info when making the decisions....... they can make an informed decistion. I've not "suggested" another brand of food. Just pointed out a fact, which i think was the whole point of the thread? But if it suits your dog and isn't full of E numbers stay with it!


i still dont understand why you have a problem with this. its the same with a lot of human food. biscuits for example, although under different brand names, can all come from the same factory.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Ducky said:


> agreed, iv also tried to get the answer for this as well.
> 
> i still dont understand why you have a problem with this. its the same with a lot of human food. biscuits for example, although under different brand names, can all come from the same factory.


Seconded. So what if bakers is made in the same factory as AG. Fact is, the food is a good food, they use quality ingredients and where it's made is of no relevance.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2010)

I have never heard that AG can cause liver problems! IF anything ALL dry I suppose theoratrically could if not enough fluid were given.

BUT!! if you dog has liver problems anyway you need to be watching the protein levels of whatever food you feed as protein is hard for the liver to break down.

Have you considered on of the good qaulity wet foods like Nature Diet

DT


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## bluejules (Sep 17, 2010)

DoubleTrouble said:


> I have never heard that AG can cause liver problems! IF anything ALL dry I suppose theoratrically could if not enough fluid were given.
> 
> BUT!! if you dog has liver problems anyway you need to be watching the protein levels of whatever food you feed as protein is hard for the liver to break down.
> 
> ...


Hi it was in an article on beet pulp, so not specifically arden grange but just that ingredient.
She had hepatitis or some sort of liver infection earlier this year so im just always worried about her liver. her liver enzyme reading was off the scale but they said her liver function was ok it was just enlarged.

I actually give her the arden grange but mix it up sometimes with a bit of white fish or chicken. i'm not sure about wet food but i did look at that natures diet and i also though about possibly trying a frozen raw diet


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2010)

bluejules said:


> Hi it was in an article on beet pulp, so not specifically arden grange but just that ingredient.
> She had hepatitis or some sort of liver infection earlier this year so im just always worried about her liver. her liver enzyme reading was off the scale but they said her liver function was ok it was just enlarged.
> 
> I actually give her the arden grange but mix it up sometimes with a bit of white fish or chicken. i'm not sure about wet food but i did look at that natures diet and i also though about possibly trying a frozen raw diet


Natures diet is a supurb food,
We used to give our girl Milk thistle to help the liver!


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

bluejules said:


> Hi it was in an article on beet pulp, so not specifically arden grange but just that ingredient.
> She had hepatitis or some sort of liver infection earlier this year so im just always worried about her liver. her liver enzyme reading was off the scale but they said her liver function was ok it was just enlarged.
> 
> I actually give her the arden grange but mix it up sometimes with a bit of white fish or chicken. i'm not sure about wet food but i did look at that natures diet and i also though about possibly trying a frozen raw diet


Natures Menu Frozen Nuggets are a great raw option.....


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

Ducky said:


> agreed, iv also tried to get the answer for this as well.
> 
> i still dont understand why you have a problem with this. its the same with a lot of human food. biscuits for example, although under different brand names, can all come from the same factory.


BlueJules was asking for facts. I was simply provding a FACT


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## Ducky (Nov 23, 2008)

stigDarley said:


> BlueJules was asking for facts. I was simply provding a FACT


she was asking about beet pulp though, your answer did not provide a fact on this. you just came out with a random fact about where the food is made. 
thus you didnt answer any question.


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

We give our guys AG and ND Even the dogs with sensitive tums get on great with both these foods

Dont worry too much about beet pulp, phone AG Customer service you will feel much more reassured after speaking with them. Orijjen has quite high protiene levels so probably wouldnt be too good if her livers already been under stress


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## bluejules (Sep 17, 2010)

mitch4 said:


> We give our guys AG and ND Even the dogs with sensitive tums get on great with both these foods
> 
> Dont worry too much about beet pulp, phone AG Customer service you will feel much more reassured after speaking with them. Orijjen has quite high protiene levels so probably wouldnt be too good if her livers already been under stress


So do you switch between AG and ND and how does that work?
Also do you give any multi vitamins or supplements at all?
Sorry all the questions!
Thanks


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Not sure how Mitch4 goes about it but I mix kibble with wet for each food. Probably the easiest is 50% RDA of both but I do 75/25 (more wet) Mine has ND and skinners salmon/rice. I dont supplement anything. A v good point but I am confident that ND is a superior food and fed at that quantity, dont feel my dog would be lacking anything. Also bearing in mind that the small amount of skinners would have some input too.

Hope this helps a bit


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## bluejules (Sep 17, 2010)

Mum2Heidi said:


> Not sure how Mitch4 goes about it but I mix kibble with wet for each food. Probably the easiest is 50% RDA of both but I do 75/25 (more wet) Mine has ND and skinners salmon/rice. I dont supplement anything. A v good point but I am confident that ND is a superior food and fed at that quantity, dont feel my dog would be lacking anything. Also bearing in mind that the small amount of skinners would have some input too.
> 
> Hope this helps a bit


thanks thats great


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

bluejules said:


> So do you switch between AG and ND and how does that work?
> Also do you give any multi vitamins or supplements at all?
> Sorry all the questions!
> Thanks


Im nearly the same as Heidi's mum i give my big dogs just a small meal of dry in the morning and a mix of dry AG and nature diet in the evening this is a larger meal, my smaller dogs i give equal quantities at each meal and give both AG Dry and ND wet, i dont give any supplements except to Ella one of our standards who has dry skin and we give EPO We have schnauzers too :thumbup:


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## bluejules (Sep 17, 2010)

mitch4 said:


> Im nearly the same as Heidi's mum i give my big dogs just a small meal of dry in the morning and a mix of dry AG and nature diet in the evening this is a larger meal, my smaller dogs i give equal quantities at each meal and give both AG Dry and ND wet, i dont give any supplements except to Ella one of our standards who has dry skin and we give EPO We have schnauzers too :thumbup:


I've decided I'll try her on the ND sensitive mix a bit in with the AG to see if she likes it and then go to half and half if she does. must be boring eating dry all the time! Never thought about wet food i thought it might give her bad breath! Thanks for all the help never thought about mixing foods before,


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Let us know how you get on


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## malamutemad (Aug 27, 2010)

stigDarley said:


> If you live near preston we can get it in for £43 ......


the best place to ask for advice is where I get my Arden Grange from - twdogfood - search for it on google - they know there stuff and deliver!


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## bluejules (Sep 17, 2010)

I got her the natures diet salmon and prawn (smells like cat food!) just gave her a little bit with the arden grange and she loves it, so now i'll just see how it goes down. If something doesnt agree with her she'll be sick but looking at the ingredients if she's sick on that then i'd be worried!


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Hope she's ok on it. Heidi had the ND Sensitive for a month/6weeks after her tummy upset then I gradually introduced the other flavours - she now gets on fine with them all, just got the lamb to go. Left that one till last as it's red meat but when I buy some more next week I will try it this time.


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## crofter (Sep 29, 2010)

Beet pulp should be ok, as previous threads have said.
If you want a really easy to read explanation of all ingredients in a dog food, visit www croftonline.co.uk website selling Golden Eagle food (similar to the old Eagle Pack which is no longer sold in this country) and follow links to Explanation of Ingredients.


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