# Bark busters-any good?



## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

Hi,just wondered if anyone had tried Bark Busters? I was thinking of getting a trainer in to try to help mainly with Mollys pulling on lead but also with her barking/lunging at other dogs in park. 

Reviews on their website ate good...but they would be wouldn't they??


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Bark Busters is a franchise and each franchise is only as good as the franchisee. I know what most will say but to be of any use to you people need to know what area you are in


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

i'm in staffordshire & my local trainer would be Diane foster.

Any comments would be welcome before i part company with probably a few hundred pounds


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Is the barking/lunging at other dogs on lead?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Don't they charge nearly £300 to come and shout Bah at the dog? There was one of their people on that Fat Pets programme a little while ago, and that is all he did to keep the dog from stealing biscuits out of the cupboard.

If you look on their franchise page, at least I think that is where I read it, you will find that they they have a few days "training" and are only allowed to use Barkbusters' own methods. 

I would have thought you could do a lot better for that sort of money.


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

oh god.....she's ringing me today for a chat-not sure i want to go with them now 

Yeah she's barking/lunging when she is on her lead and other dogs are off lead coming to say hello. She's not agressive as in biting or snapping-just seems to be trying to get her barks in 1st!! when we 1st had her if another dog came over she would shy away behind us & whimper....but now she seems to try to get in there 1st-it's just hard to control her when she's like it


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

smudgebiscuit said:


> oh god.....she's ringing me today for a chat-not sure i want to go with them now
> 
> Yeah she's barking/lunging when she is on her lead and other dogs are off lead coming to say hello. She's not agressive as in biting or snapping-just seems to be trying to get her barks in 1st!! when we 1st had her if another dog came over she would shy away behind us & whimper....but now she seems to try to get in there 1st-it's just hard to control her when she's like it


Although you could certainly improve things that is the other dogs problem as much as hers. It seems a lot of money to solve what is really two of the easier problems to sort out.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Well, I would see what she has to say first. I am only saying what I have heard and read. If she started off shying away, now lunges and barks, I would imagine she has realised that doing that makes them go away. Probably afraid of them? I think you would be better getting someone from the ADTB website or the APBC. Have a talk; I would be interested to hear what she has to say.


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

as we are both quite new to dog ownership-these problems seem quite big to us...just want to have non-pulling walks & nice runs on her training lead ( we are getting there with her re-call but we are along way off letting her off for any extended length of time) bf let her off for about 2 mins last week & his heart was in his mouth!!!! Other than these problems she is a lovely well behaved doggie :thumbup:


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Well she doesn't sound like an out and out aggressive dog and to me it sounds as though she may just want to play but without actually seeing it I can't say.
All you need to learn is how to get your dog to focus on you. First without distractions, then with calm non reactive dogs and then with more exciteable dogs. Fairly basic stuff that a trainer should be able to teach you without the use of spray bottles, rattle bottles, leash corrections or shouting


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

When she phones, ask her what methods she intends to use. She might not be very forthcoming or she won't get her fee, but you need to be sure she is only thinking about positive reinforcement type training, and I think that is your prerogative. 

I think it states on their website that they use Pos, but rattling bottles and shouting does not say positive to me. I could be wrong. I am off to read their website and see what's what.


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

thanks newfiesmum! Yeah i'm having 2nd thoughts about bark busters now-didn't realise it was a franchise etc-just got number off someone at work. did try using a squeaky toy at the weekend with her-when she barked or lunged at another dog -i squeaked the toy to get her attention then when she looked at me i gave her a treat-but then wondered if that was rewarding her for being naughty!! Think the trouble is that we have to walk/exercise her at 5:30am everyday before work & we don't bump into a single dog & at night when we take her it's the same so think she just goes wild when she does see other dogs. and because she barks/lunges at other dogs we end up avoiding other dogs so as not to upset anyone


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

As long as she gets the treat when she is calm and watching you, that is what you are rewarding her for. The trick is get their attention before they start lunging and barking. So, you need to be constantly looking out for other dogs yourself, so as to try to see them before she does. Then get her to watch you and keep a treat in your hand for her to smell and lick, or keep shovelling them in, until the danger has passed. If she sees the other dog walking away, but does not have a chance to lunge first, she will associate other dogs with good things. The timing is crucial.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

I'm not very good at explaining it and could show you much better but I shall try.
Start in the house by getting her attention and then treating her. Slowly build up the time you keep her attention before she gets the treat.
Then get her out and do the same again with low levels of distraction. Things will go backward a bit at this point so she needs to get the treat quicker than she did inside. Build the time up again. Then build on the levels of distraction.
Timing is the most important thing. You need to get her attention and she needs to get the treat before she reacts to the distraction. As soon as she has one in her mouth have the next one ready in your hand.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> As long as she gets the treat when she is calm and watching you, that is what you are rewarding her for. The trick is get their attention before they start lunging and barking. So, you need to be constantly looking out for other dogs yourself, so as to try to see them before she does. Then get her to watch you and keep a treat in your hand for her to smell and lick, or keep shovelling them in, until the danger has passed. If she sees the other dog walking away, but does not have a chance to lunge first, she will associate other dogs with good things. The timing is crucial.


You type too fast for me


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

hawksport said:


> You type too fast for me


Sorry

I don't much like the sound of this bit:

_The Bark Busters dog training method is based on the way dogs communicate with each other and how they learn from older, more important dogs in the pack. This is what makes our dog training unique and effective._

Old, outdated packleader theory and certainly in no way unique. Please let us know what she says when she phones; I am dying to hear.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

newfiesmum said:


> Sorry


Not at all. Two replies both saying the same thing shows we are on the right track.
For the op here's a list of KCGC trainers in your area. I like the Good Citizens, it's not perfect but it will teach you what you need to know and it will get you and your dog into a safe enviroment with other dogs, but you need to practise what you learn in real life situations.
Please go along and watch a couple of classes and make sure you are happy with methods used before you part with money and make a commitment. I have nothing to hide I don't allow anyone to sign up without doing this first.
Dog Training Clubs in Staffordshire - The Kennel Club


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks for the tip-so i'm kind of on the right track!! Will try more practising in the house & see how we go. We just really need to break her pulling habit & that's why we were thinking of bark busters-'cos she just isn't getting it at all-the dogmatic head collar has helped a bit but still not great & because she is brilliant at it at puppy class we not getting any help with it


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

to be honest i'm reluctant to speak to her now-i've just been on their website too. also read some reviews off other review sites-not good at all-just says lots of £££ for very outdated methods or that they take the money & promise you lots of extra help & home visits & don't bother once they have your payments. Might just email her & say i've changed my mind


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Send the email. If she can do it in class she can do it in the park you just need a bit of help transfering from one to the other and practice.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I found a link to another forum which was talking about Bark Busters, not very favourably. One post says that the APBC were trying to get them shut down and the post was nearly three years old, so I guess that plan didn't work.


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

email sent!!! Will persevere with the distraction method in the park, still not sure what to do about the pulling-we've tried all the turning around,stopping etc methods and it just doesn't seem to stick with her & also the dogmatic just stops her pulling quite so much-not teaching her not to pull-so when we have her training lead on entering the park she just pulls like mad & we have very little control over her & she literally drags us through the gate


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

smudgebiscuit said:


> email sent!!! Will persevere with the distraction method in the park, still not sure what to do about the pulling-we've tried all the turning around,stopping etc methods and it just doesn't seem to stick with her & also the dogmatic just stops her pulling quite so much-not teaching her not to pull-so when we have her training lead on entering the park she just pulls like mad & we have very little control over her & she literally drags us through the gate


Have you tried a non pull harness? I know little about the dogmatic for a dog that actually pulls a lot, mine is just for extra control because Ferdie is three stone heavier than I am. A lot on here have said they are good to stop pulling. Are you making sure that you are keeping her close with her nose down? That is the key really, because if she can't get her nose up, so cannot pull. It is hard work, I know as I once tried my daughter's English mastiff on a headcollar and she had never had a lead on, so being such a big dog she nearly had my arm off just trying to get the thing off, but she was not able to pull.


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## smudgebiscuit (Jan 25, 2011)

Yes we've tried numerous chest harnesses & all she does is rear up onto her hind legs & pull-they really have no effect on her at all!! We know that her previous owners didn't walk her on a lead at all-she just had free roam of their kitchen & when they did take her for a walk they put her straight into their car & then just let her run around alike a loony ( not sure how she ever came back to them!!) So we kinda trying to break a bad habit & she seems a very determined puller.....even when the Canny collar tightened so much on her neck that she was hardly breathing-she still carried on pulling! We really are at a loss with it-just need to get it sorted


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

I have heard that Jan Fennell's solution to pulling is not to walk the dog. So BB are not the only crazies out there:lol:


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## lemmsy (May 12, 2008)

smudgebiscuit said:


> Hi,just wondered if anyone had tried Bark Busters? I was thinking of getting a trainer in to try to help mainly with Mollys pulling on lead but also with her barking/lunging at other dogs in park.
> 
> Reviews on their website ate good...but they would be wouldn't they??


From what I have heard I would avoid Bark Busters like the plague.

My recommendation would be to find yourself a good either APDT or APBC registered trainer. 
Certainly nobody who uses aversives or dominance methods


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## alexpb22 (Jul 29, 2010)

We used Barkbusters recently. I was dead against it as had read various things about them on forums but my OH just booked it without telling me first so I decided to "go with it".

Anyway we were at the point of telling the rescue that we thought our dog would have to be rehomed as she had Seperation Anxiety and we had literally tried everything and been dealing with it for months from day one but we got BB to help with that. I have to say though that it's two months after they came and she's still with us and the trouble she displayed when being left stopped pretty much during the session with the trainer and hasn't happened since (as far as I'm aware) in fact she's better behaved than before and if it wasn't for BB we probably wouldn't still have her!

Having said that we got them back to deal with a different problem to do with aggression and that's still a work in progress but was very much based upon the same principles as the SA but we haven't had as much success with that unfortunately. Am now looking at alternative means but i have to give them 10 out of 10 for helping me with the SA as it really has made life a lot less stressful for me now.

I think it depends on the trainer you get, obviously they all work on the same principles but some people are probably better than others around the country.

Another thing is they offer gold and silver deals. The gold gives a lifetime of help without further charges and the silver do it for 12 months. I think now we should have got silver because most behavioral things you probably won't be dealing with 12 months later if it's going to get fixed with that technique. If it doesn't work then you'll probably have consulted someone else. 
We personally got two sessions of 3 hours for the fee so it worked out well and I may get them back again in the future but I have heard that some people have had trouble getting in touch with their trainers after the initial session!?!


Oh and to add, I was using a dogmatic head collar but the trainer taught me how to walk her without it and she doesn't pull at all. She lunges and barks at other dogs (hence the work in progress bit) but fundamentally the general pulling on the leash stopped


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