# EU and Vaccines



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

They've just put export restrictions on vaccine.

Protectionism at it's very worst.

What happens to those in other countries who have already had the first dose of pfizer vaccine?

It's not the worlds fault that they move like a fully loaded juggernaut


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

Absolutely appalling behaviour sort of thing Donald trump would have done.
So we have paid for up front and signed a contract it seems this is illegal UK should take EU to court totally illegal.
Pzifer is not owned by the EU they could and hope they do move production away to somewhere else I'm sure we would welcome them here not sure what they have to say on the matter I bet they are not happy.
Just shows what the EU are really like arrogant bullies who cocked up big time trying to get a lower price dithering about rather than protecting people.
In time I think other countries will leave it is not fit for purpose.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

daveos said:


> Absolutely appalling behaviour sort of thing Donald trump would have done.
> So we have paid for up front and signed a contract it seems this is illegal UK should take EU to court totally illegal.
> Pzifer is not owned by the EU they could and hope they do move production away to somewhere else I'm sure we would welcome them here not sure what they have to say on the matter I bet they are not happy.
> Just shows what the EU are really like arrogant bullies who cocked up big time trying to get a lower price dithering about rather than protecting people.
> In time I think other countries will leave it is not fit for purpose.


The last part of your post is why I voted to leave. I was for the EEC as it was called when there was a vote to see if we wanted to join 40 odd years ago as it was a trading agreement, nothing more. Over time the EEC became bigger and bigger and more unwieldy and the books were under able to be signed off by auditors each year as substantial sums of money could not be accounted for. It has become a bloated poorly run organisation unable to make decisions and prepared to bully those that get in the way. I hope the U.K. do contest this decision and encourage Pfizer to set up shop in the U.K.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

I think everyone knows my view of the EU
this goes to show what a childish self seeking lot they have proved to be

Thank all that is holy that we are out


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2021)

I see they have recommended usage of the AstraZeneca Oxford Vaccine and have asked the EU Parliament to make it legal to use it in the EU as well. The UK has warned them they won't get there full order and will have to wait due to production problems and they are kicking off a stink about that and threatening the UK with legal action. 

Just who do they think they are, they will have to wait like everyone else?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rona said:


> They've just put export restrictions on vaccine.
> 
> Protectionism at it's very worst.
> 
> ...


I can't help thinking that using a deadly pandemic to score political points is a really bad look. The one thing we can't badmouth Boris for is getting the vaccine for the UK; OK we have an appalling death toll, we know that.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

daveos said:


> In time I think other countries will leave it is not fit for purpose.


 Certainly it may give some member states a wake-up call.


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

Well the world is watching just like it watched and judged Trump.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Calvine said:


> I can't help thinking that using a deadly pandemic to score political points is a really bad look. The one thing we can't badmouth Boris for is getting the vaccine for the UK; OK we have an appalling death toll, we know that.


Me or them?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Calvine said:


> Certainly it may give some member states a wake-up call.


Also firms think of setting up within the EU


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rona said:


> Me or them?


Sorry: not sure what you mean. As you are not (to the best of my knowledge anyway ) involved in _politics_, I would not be implying that you were scoring _political_ points. I was talking about EU attitudes and behaviour, of course. What else?


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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

I really don't get it. The UK ordered these vaccines months in advance of the EU, and as such surely you would expect EU to wait their turn. 

If they wanted more doses earlier they should have got early orders in. I dont know how the EU can place these restrictions when it suits them. For one it just makes them look really bad


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Calvine said:


> Sorry: not sure what you mean.


Scoring political points


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

HarlequinCat said:


> I really don't get it. The UK ordered these vaccines months in advance of the EU, and as such surely you would expect EU to wait their turn.
> 
> If they wanted more doses earlier they should have got early orders in. I dont know how the EU can place these restrictions when it suits them. For one it just makes them look really bad


They've just released some of one of the contracts(blanked out a lot), but it looks as if they haven't a leg to stand on, as they weren't guaranteed the full amount.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...act-released-and-eu-refuses-to-budge-12202404

"Within dozens of pages of technical language, sources point to a few sentences that they consider crucial.

Firstly is clause 5.4, which I suspect will be the focus of a great deal of attention in the coming days.

Here the company agrees to make its "best reasonable efforts" to make doses at sites "located within the EU".


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

HarlequinCat said:


> The UK ordered these vaccines


 And, importantly, paid for them in advance (as far as one knows).


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2021)

The EU are nothing but child like bullies. They are jealous the UK is way head vaccinating people.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

But it goes on to say that, for this clause, the EU "shall include the United Kingdom".

Now I am totally confused.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Calvine said:


> Certainly it may give some member states a wake-up call.


Several EU countries were complaining about Brussels poor handling of the pandemic and the ordering and delivery of vaccines, even before AstraZeneca. They're using AstraZeneca and the UK as a scapegoat for their own shortcomings.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55765556

*Coronavirus vaccine delays halt Pfizer jabs in parts of Europe*

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/ne...restrictions-due-to-eus-slow-vaccine-rollout/

*Hungary Extends Entry Restrictions Due to "EU's Slow Vaccine Rollout"*

https://www.politico.eu/article/6-eu-countries-blast-delays-to-biontech-pfizer-vaccine-deliveries/
*
6 EU countries blast delays to BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine deliveries
*


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2021)

Calvine said:


> But it goes on to say that, for this clause, the EU "shall include the United Kingdom".
> 
> Now I am totally confused.


They are trying to retain dominance over the UK even though the UK is out of there club.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rawpawsrus said:


> They are trying to retain dominance over the UK even though the UK is out of there club.


 Oh yes, indeed they are. They hate the fact that we paid in a massive amount, about 15% of the total budget, which they now have to claw back from lesser/poorer member states. The whole thing became a ''jobs for the boys'' club. With the vaccine fiasco, I know many hardened remainers who are now relieved to be out.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Calvine said:


> But it goes on to say that, for this clause, the EU "shall include the United Kingdom".
> 
> Now I am totally confused.


That was probably arrogance and was written in before Boris decided we'd go it alone. Thank goodness he did


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2021)

The EU just gets worse:-

*EU Introduces Controls On Vaccine Exports To Northern Ireland*

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...-vaccine-exports-to-northern-ireland-12202656

The EU have activated article 16 meaning there will be a land border on the island or Ireland to stop Northern Ireland being used as a back door to get vaccines into the UK.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/medicines-that-cannot-be-parallel-exported-from-the-uk

Mmmm


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

https://iccwbo.org/media-wall/news-...or-rethink-of-eu-vaccine-export-restrictions/

"The International Chamber of Commerce is calling on the European Commission to reconsider the introduction of export controls on coronavirus vaccines made in the bloc.

ICC Secretary General John W.H Denton AO said:

"We are deeply concerned by the Commission's decision to press ahead with the introduction of export controls on coronavirus vaccines made in the EU.

Regardless of how these measures are calibrated, today's announcement sends a dangerous signal to the world as we seek to recover together from the coronavirus pandemic. And one that risks sparking retaliatory action that will stifle global medical supply chains, undermine vaccine production and prolong the pandemic.

Given the downside risks to vaccine supply and the EU economy that the global business community has pointed to in the last few days, we hope that the Commission will be willing to rethink its approach while the ink is still wet on the new regulation."


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2021)

The EU are showing the world what a protectionist organisation they are.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

What the BBC said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55864442?at_custom1=[post+type]&[email protected]&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&at_custom4=8190A662-6263-11EB-B26A-530216F31EAE&at_custom2=twitter

*The EU is introducing controls on vaccines made in the bloc, including to Northern Ireland, amid a row about delivery shortfalls.*

Under the Brexit deal, all products should be exported from the EU to Northern Ireland without checks.

But the EU believed this could be used to circumvent export controls, with NI becoming a backdoor to the wider UK.

NI First Minister Arlene Foster described the move as "an incredible act of hostility" by the EU.

The EU invoked Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol which allows parts of the deal to be unilaterally overridden.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I think Boris etc are doing the right thing. Keep your head down and mouth shut and let them shoot themselves in the foot. If UK gov retaliate in any way, I'm sure the EU will try and turn it on us


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/29/eu-sets-coronavirus-vaccine-export-controls

Belgium, where a large Pfizer plant is based, had already notified the Commission of a planned export. The plant makes vaccines for the UK and Canada.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

rona said:


> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/29/eu-sets-coronavirus-vaccine-export-controls
> 
> Belgium, where a large Pfizer plant is based, had already notified the Commission of a planned export. The plant makes vaccines for the UK and Canada.


From what a Canadian friend is saying Canada seems quite far behind in vaccinating. My friend and her husband are late 70's early 80's and have no idea when they might get their inoculation and even what tier they are in


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2021)

It looks as though the EU have withdrawn triggering article 16:- https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...ccines-into-northern-ireland-sources-12202835


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## Pawscrossed (Jul 2, 2013)

Boris do the right thing. Hahahahhah.


rona said:


> I think Boris etc are doing the right thing. Keep your head down and mouth shut and let them shoot themselves in the foot. If UK gov retaliate in any way, I'm sure the EU will try and turn it on us


The Boris Johnson who is the PM of the country with the highest death rate. The man who boasted about shaking hands with Covid patients and missed Cobra meetings last year. That Johnson? I don't think he had a great deal of choice.


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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

Pawscrossed said:


> Boris do the right thing. Hahahahhah.
> 
> The Boris Johnson who is the PM of the country with the highest death rate. The man who boasted about shaking hands with Covid patients and missed Cobra meetings last year. That Johnson? I don't think he had a great deal of choice.


To be fair, yes Boris could have done things quicker, but our country has one of the highest rates of obesity and also an old and ageing population. Both of which are factors in covid death rate.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2021)

Pawscrossed said:


> Boris do the right thing. Hahahahhah.
> 
> The Boris Johnson who is the PM of the country with the highest death rate. The man who boasted about shaking hands with Covid patients and missed Cobra meetings last year. That Johnson? I don't think he had a great deal of choice.


The EU aren't exactly on top form are they. They are too busy trying to punish the UK for leaving there club which is childish and people are dying whilst they mess aroind.

The UK is focused on getting people vaccinated and way ahead at vaccinating people than any country in the EU. The EU's response time to the vaccines have been very slow whilst the UK makes a success of vaccinating people and approving new vaccines.

Gloat as much as you want at our PM but he is getting the job done unlike the EU who are arguing amongst themselves and making a mess of there vaccine roll out. It must be hard keeping 27 countries happy or in this case frustrated under the EU umbrella.

Boris has got this right in my opinion and the UK could be returning back to some form of normal life this year whilst countries in the EU won't. The EU's strategy is a mess.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2021)

VDL and the PM spoke last night and the article 16 protocol has been withdrawn.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Siskin said:


> From what a Canadian friend is saying Canada seems quite far behind in vaccinating. My friend and her husband are late 70's early 80's and have no idea when they might get their inoculation and even what tier they are in


Parts of Canada must be a logistical nightmare. I assume many are snowed in at the moment


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

rona said:


> Parts of Canada must be a logistical nightmare. I assume many are snowed in at the moment


They must be I guess and they do get a lot of snow in some parts. 
My friends live on Vancouver island which doesn't get much if any snow, I was surprised to find that the island is about as long as England although narrower. Lovely place. A lot of Canadians, especially those that live in the mountains that get a lot of snow, go to America in the winter to places like Miami, the Americans call them Snowbirds. I guess they're not doing that this winter with covid.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

I thought the comment from WHO that it looked like ‘fighting over the cake when some don’t even have access to the crumbs’ summed it up perfectly.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Each country trying to save it's own.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Happy Paws2 said:


> Each country trying to save it's own.


As Hungary's Prime Minister said ......

"If there is no vaccine from the Union, let's take it elsewhere. It is not possible that the Hungarians die because of that", added the leader, customary of the standoff with Brussels."

https://www.archyde.com/hungary-goes-it-alone-and-breaks-unity-in-europe/

*Hungary goes it alone and breaks unity in Europe*


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Pawscrossed said:


> The Boris Johnson who is the PM of the country with the highest death rate


 He's not done too badly getting the vaccination progamme moving though . . . last time I checked we were right at the top of the list (and above Israel who are doing it right apparently). So much for Obama threatening us that we would be ''at the end of the line'' (or ''back of the queue'' if you prefer) if we insisted on leaving the EU. And don't forget that London has the second busiest airport in the world (plus Gatwick, plus Stansted) which would massively increase the infection rate.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Pawscrossed said:


> Boris do the right thing. Hahahahhah.
> 
> The Boris Johnson who is the PM of the country with the highest death rate. The man who boasted about shaking hands with Covid patients and missed Cobra meetings last year. That Johnson? I don't think he had a great deal of choice.


Considering we are a small island with no boarders, BJ could have closed the country down straight away. No one in one out, expect for freight.

It's disgusting that we have the highest death rates in Europe.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

This is an overcrowded island so it is not surprising the death rate is high
Not to mention all the idiots that knew better than everyone else and broke the civid rules


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Bisbow said:


> This is an overcrowded island so it is not surprising the death rate is high
> Not to mention all the idiots that knew better than everyone else and broke the civid rules


it's really not overcrowded. We are a large island, ninth largest in the world in fact. All the buildings in the UK - houses, shops, offices, factories, etc cover 1.4% of the total land surface. 57% of our land is agriculture, 37% is deemed "natural", you then have "urban natural" as well.

London as an example is one of the lowest density "main" cities in the world, England out of all the countries is the most populated, but wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are not. The south east is more populated than other areas in the UK.

Don't confuse repeated lack of investment by governments in local services and infrastructure as a definition of overcrowding or that fact we build small houses even though we don't need to and have very restrictive planning laws.

I would rather live in a country that people want to come and live in, or people raise children in than a country where people actively want to leave it.

As for the idiots... I agree with you there!


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

This country is smaller in size than most EU countries but has a larger population than most of them
Therefore we are closer together than most and to me that means overcrowding


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Bisbow said:


> This country is smaller in size than most EU countries but has a larger population than most of them
> Therefore we are closer together than most and to me that means overcrowding


Actually the UK is 162% larger than Hungary but the UK has one and a half times the number of people per square kilometer


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Magyarmum said:


> Actually the UK is 162% larger than Hungary but the UK has one and a half times the number of people per square kilometer


I bow to your superior Knowledge, I did not realise Hungary was that small


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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

I see the EU are now backing down on the export ban on the vaccines


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rawpawsrus said:


> It looks as though the EU have withdrawn triggering article 16:- https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...ccines-into-northern-ireland-sources-12202835


I should coco! glad they have seen sense but I found it scary they would do this. What else would or will they do one day?


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2021)

kimthecat said:


> I should coco! glad they have seen sense but I found it scary they would do this. What else would or will they do one day?


I think if they did do this they could have been facing a court case. I agree it was scary.


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## loraonya (Jan 29, 2021)

there are about three that I know of that are accepted in the EU. Astrazeneca phfizer and moderna


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2021)

loraonya said:


> there are about three that I know of that are accepted in the EU. Astrazeneca phfizer and moderna


The Astrazeneca isn't legal in the EU yet they are waiting for the EU Parliament to make it legal to administer to people. Mean while here in the UK we are administering it along with the Pfizer and moderna one and we have two more in the pipe line. The EU are in a right mess with the vaccines.


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## loraonya (Jan 29, 2021)

rawpawsrus said:


> The Astrazeneca isn't legal in the EU yet they are waiting for the EU Parliament to make it legal to administer to people. Mean while here in the UK we are administering it along with the Pfizer and moderna one and we have two more in the pipe line. The EU are in a right mess with the vaccines.


Very true. There are a lot of vaccines and honestly very little data just yet. I would rather have astarzeneca though since it is a known mechanism


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2021)

I would prefer the Novavax one when it becomes available as it is one jab as opposed to two and has 89% efficacy in UK trials.


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## loraonya (Jan 29, 2021)

rawpawsrus said:


> I would prefer the Novavax one when it becomes available as it is one jab as opposed to two and has 89% efficacy in UK trials.


I will have to look into that


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2021)

The other new one being considered is made by Janssen a company owned by Johnson and Johnson but this jab is only 66% effective but lasts longer apparently.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2021)

loraonya said:


> I will have to look into that


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55850352


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2021)

My apologies the Novavax vaccine will be two jabs and the Janssen one, one jab.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2021)




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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

kimthecat said:


> What else would or will they do one day?


 I seem to recall in the early days the EU actually had to apologise to (I believe it was) Italy as they gave them no help when things were really bad there and actually hoarded the PPE which they desperately needed. .

ETA: here we are:
EU apologises to Italy for lack of help in coronavirus crisis (telegraph.co.uk)


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Not sure how true this is yet,but there are reports that the EU is making moves to take over the intellectual property and data within EU.

I don't really understand how they could do this?

Article 122!
https://www.politico.eu/article/cha...sures-response-coronavirus-vaccine-shortfall/


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rona said:


> Not sure how true this is yet,but there are reports that the EU is making moves to take over the intellectual property and data within EU.
> 
> I don't really understand how they could do this?
> 
> ...


 They really are a law to themselves, aren't they!


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

rona said:


> Not sure how true this is yet,but there are reports that the EU is making moves to take over the intellectual property and data within EU.
> 
> I don't really understand how they could do this?
> 
> ...


.]

This is article 122 .... 
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers...se causes must be,control of the Member State.

I wonder whether they're thinking of using it in a similar way to the US Defence Production Act which was invoked when there was a shortage of PPE amongst other items,?


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

rona said:


> Not sure how true this is yet,but there are reports that the EU is making moves to take over the intellectual property and data within EU.
> 
> I don't really understand how they could do this?
> 
> ...


I wonder if companies may move their production to other countries to avoid this, could be very detrimental to the EU if that happens. Shades of Trumpism me thinks


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Calvine said:


> They really are a law to themselves, aren't they!


I belong to several British Expat forums the members of whom, (quite naturally living in the EU) are mainly Remainers. It's very noticeable that not a single word has been mentioned on any of the forums, about this dispute between the EU and the vaccine manufacturers.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> Shades of Trumpism


 Very Trumpish indeed!


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Bisbow said:


> This country is smaller in size than most EU countries but has a larger population than most of them
> Therefore we are closer together than most and to me that means overcrowding


But are a island we should have been able to control it, we don't have any boarders with other countries for people to move around from one to another with out been checked, BJ has always been one step behind what he should have been doing. Lockdown came in far to late and every lockdown since has been has been the same, and this one needs to be enforced more.

It must be hard been PM at the moment, but he really made a mess of it, how many more will die because of him, not making a decision fast enough.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> It must be hard been PM at the moment, but he really made a mess of it, how many more will die because of him, not making a decision fast enough.


But how many lives are being saved because of his fast roll out of the vaccine. faster than anyone else

I agree he should have shut the entry into the country right from the start but he is trying to do his best in an impossible and unseen situation


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Bisbow said:


> But how many lives are being saved because of his fast roll out of the vaccine. faster than anyone else
> 
> I agree he should have shut the entry into the country right from the start but he is trying to do his best in an impossible and unseen situation


 And judging by the photos in the papers, other governments are being massively criticised too . . . violent protests taking place in several countries; so, in addition to the lockdown, shops, businesses and cars are being smashed and torched.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Bisbow said:


> But how many lives are being saved because of his fast roll out of the vaccine. faster than anyone else
> 
> I agree he should have shut the entry into the country right from the start but he is trying to do his best in an impossible and unseen situation


But we still have had 105.571 deaths one of the highest in the world, it should never have happen on a small island.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> But we still have had 105.571 deaths one of the highest in the world, it should never have happen on a small island.


I know you hate BJ with passion but do you think the labour leader could have done better

I don't, he is good at criticising but I have not heard one good idea from him yet

I agree the number of deaths is awful but as I have said before on a small crowded island I am not surprised


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Happy Paws2 said:


> But we still have had 105.571 deaths one of the highest in the world, it should never have happen on a small island.


To put it into perspective.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/

*Incidence of coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths in the EEA and the UK 2021, by country*
Published by Conor Stewart, Jan 28, 2021
As of January 24, 2021, Belgium had the highest rate of coronavirus deaths among its population in the European Economic Area at 181.89 deaths per 100,000 population. Slovenia has recorded 172 deaths from coronavirus per 100,000. Furthermore, the UK has the highest number of confirmed coronavirus deaths in Europe, at 97,939.

*Number of cases in Europe*
Across the whole of Europe, there have been over 32.2 million confirmed cases of coronavirus. Russia has been Europe's worst affected country with over 3.6 million cases, this translates to an incidence rate of approximately 2,562 cases per 100,000 population. The UK and France have approximately 3.6 million and 3.1 million cases respectively.

*Current situation*
The UK has had the highest number of confirmed coronavirus cases in the last two weeks in Europe as of January 24, at 575,114. While, the rate of cases in Portugal over the last seven days is 846 per 100,000 which is one of the highest in Europe.

*Incidence of coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths in the European Economic Area and the United Kingdom as of January 24, 2021, by country*


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Bisbow said:


> I know you hate BJ with passion but do you think the labour leader could have done better
> 
> I don't, he is good at criticising but I have not heard one good idea from him yet
> 
> I agree the number of deaths is awful but as I have said before on a small crowded island I am not surprised


Yes I think BJ is a total Pr*T and I'm not sure what Kier Starmer would have done but he did want to lockadown the country weeks before BJ did which would have saved lives.

And as I said he should have locked the country completely nothing in or out instead of keeping the airports open, surely take would have saved lives.

The only things coming into the country should have been freight and most of that could have been move to rail so not so many lorry drivers coming into the country.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Magyarmum said:


> As of January 24, 2021, Belgium had the highest rate of coronavirus deaths among its population in the European Economic Area at 181.89 deaths per 100,000 population. Slovenia has recorded 172 deaths from coronavirus per 100,000. Furthermore, the UK has the highest number of confirmed coronavirus deaths in Europe, at 97,939.


Unfortunately if this is based on each countries way of recording you can't compare. Belgium count all deaths as covid deaths.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Arny said:


> Unfortunately if this is based on each countries way of recording you can't compare. Belgium count all deaths as covid deaths.


True, but I was posting it to make some comparisons not only with Belgium but with other countries as well.

Another one done by Belgium with the necessary adjustments,

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/mortality-and-causes-of-death/covid-19-mortality


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

With all the positive news on Oxford AZ vaccine how efficient it is at stopping transmission it seems really strange why the EU seem to have a problem with it they keep blaming not enough data yet they are approving Russia Sputnik vaccine which has not been tested as well as ours and also considering Chinese vaccine that is only about 50 per cent efficient.
More countries everyday keep saying they are not going to use it on over 65 now Switzerland has banned it altogether even though they out of EU they are closely linked this is just a case of sour grapes that the UK produced its own vaccine and is leading the way Europe should think of its people not silly political bitching France failed to make a vaccine where in the past they were world leaders so glad we have gone we don't need friends like you.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

I suspect you're right about the sour grapes, also the EU invested a lot in the French vaccine pushed by Macron and I suspect he hates it that his is useless. Perhaps he feels the need to try and find a way of discrediting the oxford vaccine in order to hide that


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

Siskin said:


> I suspect you're right about the sour grapes, also the EU invested a lot in the French vaccine pushed by Macron and I suspect he hates it that his is useless. Perhaps he feels the need to try and find a way of discrediting the oxford vaccine in order to hide that


I think the whole block are ganging up on us listening to the boss of AZ this morning he is very confident in it protecting older people and all data showing so far is positive it also cuts transmission by two thirds which is excellent and also it is a not for profit vaccine if they don't want it I'm sure others will.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Well.............wow...........they are even worse than I could have imagined


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Bisbow said:


> I know you hate BJ with passion but do you think the labour leader could have done better
> 
> I don't, he is good at criticising but I have not heard one good idea from him yet
> 
> I agree the number of deaths is awful but as I have said before on a small crowded island I am not surprised


It is not about what any opposition party would have done, what on Earth is the point of that, but being aware of the actions of who is in power so that it's in the forefront of all our minds and we can use our votes, our own MP voices to improve future responses.

https://timeline-of-failure.com/


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> a way of discrediting the oxford vaccine in order to hide that


Seems quite shameless that they are playing silly games with something like a vaccine to save lives.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

https://www.politico.eu/article/von...acturing-coronavirus-vaccines-on-large-scale/

*Von der Leyen: EU 'underestimated' challenges in mass vaccine production*


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

And a rather scathing article about Von der Leyen in Der Spiegel.

https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...bility-a-1197547d-6219-4438-9d69-b76e64701802

*Commission President Ursula von der Leyen Seeking to Duck Responsibility*


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2021)

I have noticed European countries are furious with the European Union over the vaccine crisis. The unity of the European Union is one that isn't united over the vaccine problems they are experiencing.

On another note last night the Netherlands added there names to the growing list of countries banning the Oxford Vaccine for over 65's in Europe.


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

rawpawsrus said:


> I have noticed European countries are furious with the European Union over the vaccine crisis. The unity of the European Union is one that isn't united over the vaccine problems they are experiencing.
> 
> On another note last night the Netherlands added there names to the growing list of countries banning the Oxford Vaccine for over 65's in Europe.


Yes the Netherlands have added there names no surprise really funny how it is only the europeans who only have a problem with AZ, Other parts of the world South America Asia and Central America they are more than happy to use the vaccine but then they are not paling politics and putting there people first.
Also cadburys are leaving Germany and bringing production back to UK perhaps they see us as a better more open place.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2021)

daveos said:


> Yes the Netherlands have added there names no surprise really funny how it is only the europeans who only have a problem with AZ, Other parts of the world South America Asia and Central America they are more than happy to use the vaccine but then they are not paling politics and putting there people first.
> Also cadburys are leaving Germany and bringing production back to UK perhaps they see us as a better more open place.


I don't get it because the EU are making threats to the UK to get there hands on the AZ vaccine but more and more countries in Europe don't want to use it for one reason or another on elderly people and banning it. The EU are definitely showing cracks in unity which they apparently boast that they speak as one voice for every country in Europe, they aren't united at all over the vaccines and the whole world is watching them.

I am happy that the UK is leading the way and ahead vaccinating people and is getting its hands on the best vaccines around by getting the orders in for them.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2021)

daveos said:


> Also cadburys are leaving Germany and bringing production back to UK perhaps they see us as a better more open place.


Yes it's great news that a British iconic chocolate brand is coming back to be produced over here.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

rawpawsrus said:


> I have noticed European countries are furious with the European Union over the vaccine crisis. The unity of the European Union is one that isn't united over the vaccine problems they are experiencing.
> 
> On another note last night the Netherlands added there names to the growing list of countries banning the Oxford Vaccine for over 65's in Europe.


I live in Hungary and our government has been very unhappy about the way Brussels has handled the whole pandemic particularly the allocation and distribution of vaccines to the various EU countries. Since December we've only been receiving vaccine in ridiculously small amounts. If I remember correctly one delivery from the EU was only sufficient to vaccinate 7000 people. Naturally people are frustrated and annoyed as is the government because had they had the vaccine many more people would have received their jabs by now. As a result the Hungarian government has now ordered vaccine from both Russia and China much to Brussels annoyance but as our PM has said people's lives are more important then politics.

https://hungarytoday.hu/coronavirus-orban-vaccination-hungary-elderly/

*Orbán: Everyone over 60 and Registered for Vaccination to Be Inoculated by March 15*


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

Talk about double standards EU said Russia melded in Brexit referendum relations between them not be really great now they want Sputnik vaccine of them I'm sure that has not had as much testing as Oxfords.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

daveos said:


> Talk about double standards EU said Russia melded in Brexit referendum relations between them not be really great now they want Sputnik vaccine of them I'm sure that has not had as much testing as Oxfords.


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00191-4/fulltext

*Sputnik V COVID-19 vaccine candidate appears safe and effective*


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

An interesting read about the AstraZeneca contract taken from a German blog I follow.

https://lostineu.eu/impfdebakel-eu-...rope+Update&utm_content=Lost+in+EUrope+Update

*"EU badly negotiated treaties"*
February 5, 2021

*It has now been a week since the EU Commission disclosed the contract with AstraZeneca . And it becomes clear that Brussels negotiated badly. This is the conclusion reached by specialized business lawyers in London. Meanwhile, the CDU European politician Liese is talking about the situation.*

Commission head von der Leyen has admitted that the problems with the production of vaccines have been underestimated. The CDU politician claims that they have concentrated on research and development and on liability issues.

But this is obviously wrong. Anyone reading Articles 14 and 15 of the contract with AstraZeneca will see that the EU exempts the manufacturer from all liability problems. Even with a lack of security or efficiency, AZ has nothing to fear.

In addition, the EU failed to formulate the order in such a way that sufficient production was ensured. This is pointed out by business lawyers in London who questioned the portal "Voxeurope" . Quote:

"The f *lexibilities granted to companies* in the contracts aim to mitigate the uncertainties inherent in the enormous production effort required by the exceptional circumstances of the pandemic," comments Colin McCall, partner of the international law firm Taylor Wessing, based in London. Clive Douglas, a lawyer and commercial mediator at Nexa Law (another UK law firm), takes a more critical stance. "In exchange for the participation in the expenses for the development of vaccines and the favorable conditions offered to companies, *the EU should have reserved the right to negotiate for the entire duration of the contracts, in particular in the phase following the marketing authorization, in order to agree on precise quantities and delivery dates*, with related penalties and price reductions for non-compliance ".

So this is not just an unfortunate oversight, but a serious legal mistake. The EU has practically given AstraZeneca carte blanche - in terms of production and risks.

However, that does not prevent the CDU MP Liese from talking about the situation nicely. _"For the fully vaccinated, Germany is ahead of Great Britain,"_ said the doctor today. In addition, Canada is doing even worse than the EU. One shouldn't always look only at the USA or UK.

Well then…


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

Breaking news the WHO have stated that the Oxford AZ vaccine is effective and safe and should be given to all adults over 18 with no upper age limit.
This is great news after all the name calling by the EU they were wrong again, I really feel for the people of Europe who have been let down by that shower of crap.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Interesting?

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/17/europe/uk-astrazeneca-vaccine-contract-details-intl/index.html

*AstraZeneca's vaccine contract with the UK is based on 'best efforts,' just like its deal with a frustrated EU*


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Oh dear oh dear oh dear 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202

Thank goodness we are out


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

rona said:


> Oh dear oh dear oh dear
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56279202
> 
> Thank goodness we are out


And it looks as though France is now getting in on the act!

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...owing-australia-blockade-20210306-p578c2.html

And another row brewing over the Vaccination certificates. Apparently the EU wants the certificate to state the name of the vaccine used, and only vaccines authorised by the EU will be valid. Hungary who is using both the Chinese and Russian vaccine, neither of which have been approved yet by the EU, objects and says it will only accept certificates from countries which accept the Hungarian certificate, which will not state the make of vaccine.

https://hungarytoday.hu/vaccine-cer...Phtx9ebrxju4RQwS28JIgZuGUYetfHamkkmJbpIrqpo_o

And what about countries like Cuba who are making their own vaccine and intend exporting it round the world, particularly to African countries? Will their certificates not be valid?

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/03/americas/cuba-covid-vaccine-soberana-intl-latam/index.html

Watch this space ......


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-starts-rolling-review-sputnik-v-covid-19-vaccine

"News 04/03/2021
EMA's human medicines committee (CHMP) has started a rolling review of Sputnik V (Gam-COVID-Vac), a COVID-19 vaccine1 developed by Russia's Gamaleya National Centre of Epidemiology and Microbiology. The EU applicant for this medicine is R-Pharm Germany GmbH."

You may be ok


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

rona said:


> https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-starts-rolling-review-sputnik-v-covid-19-vaccine
> 
> "News 04/03/2021
> EMA's human medicines committee (CHMP) has started a rolling review of Sputnik V (Gam-COVID-Vac), a COVID-19 vaccine1 developed by Russia's Gamaleya National Centre of Epidemiology and Microbiology. The EU applicant for this medicine is R-Pharm Germany GmbH."
> ...


Rather late off the mark aren't they considering in February the BMJ said the Sputnik V vaccine was safe and effective to use?

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n309


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Magyarmum said:


> Rather late off the mark aren't they considering in February the BMJ said the Sputnik V vaccine was safe and effective to use?
> 
> https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n309


Then blaming everyone else!!...........the bubble has burst

OK while living that virtual life of money go round while they cream it off, another altogether when real life happens


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

rona said:


> Then blaming everyone else!!...........the bubble has burst
> 
> OK while living that virtual life of money go round while they cream it off, another altogether when real life happens


A case of not do as I do but do as I say?

https://www.ft.com/content/e4aaf7a8-3ccb-4223-b8e9-4cd069a9dbf2

*EU turns to US in scramble for Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine*


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

After rubbishing this vaccine, they now want to keep it for themselves 
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...ountries-with-high-vaccination-rates-12248671

"European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to block vaccine exports to the UK and other countries with markedly higher rollouts of coronavirus jabs".

Something stinks in the EU


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

rona said:


> After rubbishing this vaccine, they now want to keep it for themselves
> https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...ountries-with-high-vaccination-rates-12248671
> 
> "European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has threatened to block vaccine exports to the UK and other countries with markedly higher rollouts of coronavirus jabs".
> ...


It certainly does. They are trying to either blame everyone else or prevent legal trade in order to cover up their own ineptitude.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

JVT

"Vaccines don't save lives if they're in fridges, they only save lives if they're in arms"

Don't you just love him?
He makes me smile


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)




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## Guest (Mar 18, 2021)

Magyarmum said:


>


The EU cannot stand that the UK has been successful in rolling out the vaccines and are looking to punish the UK anyway they can. The EU have done nothing but cause paranoia through their scaremongering the EU has caused over the AZ vaccine. What about all the unused AZ vaccines in other European countries because the uptake hasn't been very high with the AZ vaccine, these are going to waste. There will be court cases over breach of contract if the EU go ahead with this.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-eu-vaccine-covid-b1818671.html

*Raab compares EU to dictatorship as row over access to vaccines escalates*


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2021)

Magyarmum said:


> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-eu-vaccine-covid-b1818671.html
> 
> *Raab compares EU to dictatorship as row over access to vaccines escalates*


Von Der Liar (VDL) does make me think she is a dictator.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

An article well worth reading from the Centre for European Reform

https://www.cer.eu/insights/eus-troubled-leadership-you-get-what-you-pay

*THE EU'S TROUBLED LEADERSHIP: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR*


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

If the EU go ahead and actually enter production sites and block exports of the vaccine then they are finished what business will want to invest its resources into a place where they get forcibly entered and products stolen which have been paid for and contracts signed basically burgled.
The EU seem to be on a dangerous path right now very jealous of the UK vaccine rollout, Well if they do block our vaccine we should stop their fishing boats coming into our waters.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

daveos said:


> If the EU go ahead and actually enter production sites and block exports of the vaccine then they are finished what business will want to invest its resources into a place where they get forcibly entered and products stolen which have been paid for and contracts signed basically burgled.
> The EU seem to be on a dangerous path right now very jealous of the UK vaccine rollout, Well if they do block our vaccine we should stop their fishing boats coming into our waters.


From the Spectator.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-eu-s-jab-snatching-legal-ruse-is-absurd

*The EU's jab snatching ruse is legally absurd*


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2021)

The EMA (European Medicines Agency) have said the Oxford Astrazeneca Vaccine is safe.

https://news.sky.com/story/italy-la...ca-jab-after-regulator-says-its-safe-12249988


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Very worrying especially as the numbers of new infections are soaring.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/19...zOTY0ZDU2MGRmYzYwMzU3ZjgyM2UzZjgwMWVmNDcifQ==

*COVID in Europe: 'Not enough vaccines to stop third wave' says Germany*


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Magyarmum said:


> Very worrying especially as the numbers of new infections are soaring.
> 
> https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/19/not-enough-vaccines-to-stop-third-wave-of-covid-in-europe-says-german-health-minister?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=en&utm_content=not-enough-vaccines-to-stop-third-wave-of-covid-in-europe-says-german-health-minister&_ope=eyJndWlkIjoiMGQzOTY0ZDU2MGRmYzYwMzU3ZjgyM2UzZjgwMWVmNDcifQ==
> 
> *COVID in Europe: 'Not enough vaccines to stop third wave' says Germany*


I simply don't understand. They have been sitting on weeks worth of vaccines and still they haven't enough.
Are they selling it off to the highest bidder or something?

Some very funny goings on in the EU at the moment!


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## SbanR (Jun 16, 2017)

Magyarmum said:


> Very worrying especially as the numbers of new infections are soaring.
> 
> https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/19/not-enough-vaccines-to-stop-third-wave-of-covid-in-europe-says-german-health-minister?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=en&utm_content=not-enough-vaccines-to-stop-third-wave-of-covid-in-europe-says-german-health-minister&_ope=eyJndWlkIjoiMGQzOTY0ZDU2MGRmYzYwMzU3ZjgyM2UzZjgwMWVmNDcifQ==
> 
> *COVID in Europe: 'Not enough vaccines to stop third wave' says Germany*


It seems the EU politicians have done such a brilliant job of raising doubts about the Oxford AZ vaccine, people are refusing to have it.


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## HarlequinCat (Nov 29, 2012)

They seem to have shot themselves in the foot, but didnt see it coming


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

rona said:


> I simply don't understand. They have been sitting on weeks worth of vaccines and still they haven't enough.
> Are they selling it off to the highest bidder or something?
> 
> Some very funny goings on in the EU at the moment!


You and me both. I don't always agree with Orban, but I do believe he did the right thing by deciding to "go it alone" and ordering the Russian and Chinese vaccines. As a result Hungary hasn't been affected as much by the shortage of vaccines and to date nearly 1.5 million people have received their first vaccination. The aim is to have a quarter of the population, some 2.5 million people, vaccinated with their first shot by the end of April.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

And now this!

The original article is in the Telegraph which I can't post because it's behind a pay wall.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/pfizer-eu-covid-vaccine-threats-uk-b925289.html

*Pfizer warns EU to back down on Covid vaccine threats to UK*


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

I don’t think they’ve forgiven us for leaving their “club”


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

I don't think they will ever forgive us for leaving and will try to make us pay by trying to make Brexit a failure


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2021)

Magyarmum said:


> Very worrying especially as the numbers of new infections are soaring.
> 
> https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/19/not-enough-vaccines-to-stop-third-wave-of-covid-in-europe-says-german-health-minister?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=en&utm_content=not-enough-vaccines-to-stop-third-wave-of-covid-in-europe-says-german-health-minister&_ope=eyJndWlkIjoiMGQzOTY0ZDU2MGRmYzYwMzU3ZjgyM2UzZjgwMWVmNDcifQ==
> 
> *COVID in Europe: 'Not enough vaccines to stop third wave' says Germany*


The EU scared people off having the vaccine in other European countries. The damage is done. The AZ vaccine is just going to waste unused in other European countries. The vaccine won't stop a 3rd wave from happening because people are resisting having the vaccine.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2021)

Magyarmum said:


> And now this!
> 
> The original article is in the Telegraph which I can't post because it's behind a pay wall.
> 
> ...


The EU are so hell bent on punishing the UK for leaving their club that they have taken their eyes off the ball and as a result of their determination to punish the UK they have scaremongered people off having a vaccine. The damage is done in other European countries and the EU have caused the damage. They are really showing themselves up.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2021)

In my opinion the children (The EU) have lost their baby sitter (the UK) because the EU do act very childish and have been doing since the UK left their club.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

rawpawsrus said:


> In my opinion the children (The EU) have lost their baby sitter (the UK) because the EU do act very childish and have been doing since the UK left their club.


Even in my wildest dreams (hopes) could I have imagined the EU proving virtually everything negative I'd said about them over the last 4 years.
It's just heartbreaking that it's the people of the EU that are suffering.If you can pass the blame to the UK you can cover what's happening and protect your own arses


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)




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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Siskin said:


> View attachment 464643


Is it me or has the EU gone into a dramatic decline, not only since the UK but also since Merkel is on the point of retiring and has been taking a back seat?

An article in a German newspaper which gives one of the reasons why the EU hasn't received the number od AZ vaccines it was supposed to have done.

https://www.derstandard.de/story/20...r-den-lieferproblemen-bei-astra-zeneca-steckt

*FACTORY IN THE NETHERLANDS*
*What is behind the delivery problems at Astra Zeneca*
A Dutch plant produces vaccine, but has not yet delivered anything to Europe. The EU seeks arbitration in the delivery dispute, Astra Zeneca wants to produce more vaccine
.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Siskin said:


> View attachment 464643


Don't do that.... I'll nearly choked on my yogurt :Hilarious


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Magyarmum said:


> Is it me or has the EU gone into a dramatic decline, not only since the UK but also since Merkel is on the point of retiring and has been taking a back seat?
> 
> An article in a German newspaper which gives one of the reasons why the EU hasn't received the number od AZ vaccines it was supposed to have done.
> 
> ...


No it is not you
It has been declining for a long time

The more I read about the EU I thank all that is holy that we are no longer in it


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2021)

Instead of throwing threats at countries (this includes the UK) outside the EU who are doing better than the EU at rolling out the vaccines, the EU should calm down and work with the countries doing better than them vaccinating people. The threats are unnecessary. Have they forgotten how to speak to people and have to now resort to throwing threats around? This behaviour is uncalled for.


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with vaccines and everything wrong with making it political.

Great shame really.
No wonder Czechia asked Putin for theirs.

As with anything there will always be a minute risk of side effects.
I had Pfizer and the second dose made me feel really tired and feverish for a few days.

Maybe anyone who is concerned about the possibility of clots should take mini aspirin for a few days as precaution after the jab?


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

Well if EU do block shipments this week it could put our vaccinations back 2 months so they could be responsible for deaths in the uk then.
I really hope this does not happen time for Boris to stop referring to them as our friends in Europe friends do not behave like this seems Europe is going down the nationalist root yet again.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

daveos said:


> Well if EU do block shipments this week it could put our vaccinations back 2 months so they could be responsible for deaths in the uk then.
> I really hope this does not happen time for Boris to stop referring to them as our friends in Europe friends do not behave like this seems Europe is going down the nationalist root yet again.


It's just because we are doing so well with our vaccination programme while they have been faffing around and they are so far behind. Jealousy that's what I think.


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## Bisbow (Feb 20, 2012)

Happy Paws2 said:


> It's just because we are doing so well with our vaccination programme while they have been faffing around and they are so far behind. Jealousy that's what I think.


They are having tantrums like spoiled brats that have had their treats taken away

Boris needs to jump on them and tell them to grow up and do their job properly


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

daveos said:


> The EU seem to be on a dangerous path right now very jealous of the UK vaccine rollout,





Bisbow said:


> I don't think they will ever forgive us for leaving and will try to make us pay by trying to make Brexit a failure


It's certainly very unneighbourly - and _politicising a pandemic which is still claiming lives_ is a very shabby look (IMO). They really do give the impression of being envious that UK has done so well, are still fuming that they no longer receive the pile of money we used to pay are doing this as an act of revenge to ''settle an old score''.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Calvine said:


> It's certainly very unneighbourly - and _politicising a pandemic which is still claiming lives_ is a very shabby look (IMO). They really do give the impression of being envious that UK has done so well, are still fuming that they no longer receive the pile of money we used to pay are doing this as an act of revenge to ''settle an old score''.


I've noticed the EU has shut up about the US not sending them any vaccines.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Magyarmum said:


> I've noticed the EU has shut up about the US not sending them any vaccines.


Am I missing something, or have they also suddenly shut up about the AZ being unsafe and are now trying to keep it for themselves? The whole thing is starting to confuse me somewhat.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2021)

Calvine said:


> Am I missing something, or have they also suddenly shut up about the AZ being unsafe and are now trying to keep it for themselves? The whole thing is starting to confuse me somewhat.


The European Medicines Agency told the EU that AZ vaccine is safe, the EU have shut up complaining it's unsafe since.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rawpawsrus said:


> The European Medicines Agency told the EU that AZ vaccine is safe, the EU have shut up complaining it's unsafe since.


You know, I have never been one for watching soap operas, but in this case I am making an exception and I tune in daily. So many twists and turns, so many dodgy characters . . . !


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

It seems the EU nations are sitting on piles of unused AZ vaccines as they’ve done such a good job with the scary stories over that vaccine that many Europeans won’t have it. Yet they seek to stop the U.K. from having legally bought vaccine


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Siskin said:


> It seems the EU nations are sitting on piles of unused AZ vaccines


And it must have a ''shelf life'', hopefully reasonably long so that it won't be binned.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2021)

What annoys me about all the AZ vaccine going to waste in other European countries is that countries (poor countries) who cannot afford to buy vaccines could have them donated as they need vaccines as well.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Calvine said:


> You know, I have never been one for watching soap operas, but in this case I am making an exception and I tune in daily. So many twists and turns, so many dodgy characters . . . !


And there was I wondering where I was going to get my entertainment from after Brexit and dear old Donny T.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Calvine said:


> You know, I have never been one for watching soap operas, but in this case I am making an exception and I tune in daily. So many twists and turns, so many dodgy characters . . . !


The saga continues ........

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-e...er&r=1716878661119620&lid=1786120&pm_ln=83207

*Coronavirus: EU 'not ready' to share COVID vaccines with poorer countries*


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Magyarmum said:


> dear old Donny T


Life was never dull with the Donald around; but all is not lost - he is suggesting that he may run in 2024 D). I would not put anything past him!


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

https://www.ips-journal.eu/topics/e...210323&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

*Vaccines: a very European disaster*

On healthcare, the US has a lot to learn from Europe's successes. Yet the latter's vaccination fiasco also revealed flawed institutions and attitudes


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Oh my, what have they done now?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-block-on-table-french-official-idUSKBN2BG1HF

Grabbed COVAX jabs


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

They are really showing their true colours aren't they! It's taken a deadly pandemic to reveal what they are really like which is really shameful.


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

They really are showing themselves for what they are fascists going down a very dangerous route never mind the UK will no doubt come and save Europe again, And we were called little englanders really thankful we left bet they would have taken the vaccine away from us.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

daveos said:


> really thankful we left


The way they are behaving simply makes leavers totally 100% sure they voted the right way, if ever they were in any doubt.


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## daveos (May 14, 2017)

I think the EU want to punish the UK make us suffer for daring to leave.
If the EU had been as successful with their vaccine rollout and say we were really bad with ours do you think they would have helped us, I bet they would have not helped which Boris from our side has offered just shows how vindictive they are I really hope other countries leave this new soviet style EU.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

daveos said:


> I think the EU want to punish the UK make us suffer for daring to leave


We paid in something like 15%, so obviously the shortfall has to be made up from the other member states. It probably also gave other countries the idea that maybe leaving was not a bad idea, so yes, they hate us! I read just recently that Northern Ireland has 50% vaccinated, but that the south has only 10% and many people there are trying to get over to NI to get the vax. That sort of sums it up.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

daveos said:


> I think the EU want to punish the UK make us suffer for daring to leave.
> If the EU had been as successful with their vaccine rollout and say we were really bad with ours do you think they would have helped us, I bet they would have not helped which Boris from our side has offered just shows how vindictive they are I really hope other countries leave this new soviet style EU.


I am no fan of the EU in any shape or form but I find your views a tiny bit extreme. Not sure I'd go as far as fascism, close but I feel an extreme corrupt capitalism is a closer description


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

rona said:


> Oh my, what have they done now?
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-block-on-table-french-official-idUSKBN2BG1HF
> 
> Grabbed COVAX jabs


I've had to re-read that article a few times and am still struggling to see how it implies that the EU are grabbing COVAX bound vaccines. Unless of course the article has been edited since you posted


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Snoringbear said:


> I've had to re-read that article a few times and am still struggling to see how it implies that the EU are grabbing COVAX bound vaccines. Unless of course the article has been edited since you posted


"A stock of almost 30 million doses has been identified near Rome during an inspection we put in place.* It has now been seized,*" French government spokesman Gabriel Attal told reporters after a cabinet meeting. "The EU won't be the fall guy of vaccinations."


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

rona said:


> "A stock of almost 30 million doses has been identified near Rome during an inspection we put in place.* It has now been seized,*" French government spokesman Gabriel Attal told reporters after a cabinet meeting. "The EU won't be the fall guy of vaccinations."


Thanks. I guess that can be interpreted in that way. The overall picture, especially when looking at other news sources suggests a far more complicated situation, which doesn't imply denying export from EU manufacturers to COVAX countries. From what I've read elsewhere about 40 million vaccines have left the EU to several countries, including 10 million to the UK. Conversely, I've not seen anything to suggest that any have been exported from the UK.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Snoringbear said:


> Thanks. I guess that can be interpreted in that way. The overall picture, especially when looking at other news sources suggests a far more complicated situation, which doesn't imply denying export from EU manufacturers to COVAX countries. From what I've read elsewhere about 40 million vaccines have left the EU to several countries, including 10 million to the UK. Conversely, I've not seen anything to suggest that any have been exported from the UK.


Apparently some of the EU countries have large stocks of the AZ stocked up which haven't been used as they have done such a good job of dissing AZ that people are reluctant to have it.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Siskin said:


> Apparently some of the EU countries have large stocks of the AZ stocked up which haven't been used as they have done such a good job of dissing AZ that people are reluctant to have it.


Yes, the AZ vaccination hold put people off. I know people here who are reluctant about the AZ vaccine now. Some non-EU European countries also put a freeze on the vaccine. I'd assume that any country would need to hold some stock, simply to accommodate second jabs, as without the vaccine available for that, it makes the first one redundant. Also sounds like in the Italy situation that a portion of batches were from a non-approved manufacturer, so presumably are redundant until that is sorted.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2021)

Snoringbear said:


> Yes, the AZ vaccination hold put people off. I know people here who are reluctant about the AZ vaccine now. Some non-EU European countries also put a freeze on the vaccine. I'd assume that any country would need to hold some stock, simply to accommodate second jabs, as without the vaccine available for that, it makes the first one redundant. Also sounds like in the Italy situation that a portion of batches were from a non-approved manufacturer, so presumably are redundant until that is sorted.


It wasn't the hold put on AZ vaccine that put people off, countries within the EU and the EU themselves have done everything they can to discredit the Oxford AZ vaccine and even made up scare stories about the AZ Vaccine, this is what put people off having it all the scaremongering. The EMA told the EU that the vaccine is safe and they seem to have stopped the scaremongering now. I feel sorry for the citizens of other European countries being affected by this rollercoaster ride the EU have took them on and not being vaccinated. I have had my first Oxford AZ vaccine in February and apart from a sore arm and a few side effects there is nothing wrong with it. The EU have to stop being bullies as this is certainly how they are coming across and work with the firm's making the vaccine instead of threatening countries doing better than them with court action out of jealousy. The EU will damage their reputation on the world stage the way the are carrying on especially Ursula von der Leyen.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2021)

Additional point I would like to make. The EU stated over the last week they have enough vaccine to vaccinate every citizen in Europe.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

rawpawsrus said:


> Additional point I would like to make. The EU stated over the last week they have enough vaccine to vaccinate every citizen in Europe.


Have you a link to that?
I didn't see that


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

rawpawsrus said:


> Additional point I would like to make. The EU stated over the last week they have enough vaccine to vaccinate every citizen in Europe.


 Great news! Now, remind me - what is that saying? They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk? It's not doing any good in the fridge, is it? France's vax record is truly abysmal.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Calvine said:


> Great news! Now, remind me - what is that saying? They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk? It's not doing any good in the fridge, is it? France's vax record is truly abysmal.


Apparently the French are naturally averse to vaccinations which doesn't help matters, coupled with AZ been pushed as being useless has made it even worse. On their own heads be it, the infection rate is very high in France at the moment


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Siskin said:


> Apparently the French are naturally averse to vaccinations which doesn't help matters, coupled with AZ been pushed as being useless has made it even worse. On their own heads be it, the infection rate is very high in France at the moment


They are vaccinating the workers rather than the old, sick and vulnerable. That's why they have such high numbers


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

rawpawsrus said:


> It wasn't the hold put on AZ vaccine that put people off, countries within the EU and the EU themselves have done everything they can to discredit the Oxford AZ vaccine and even made up scare stories about the AZ Vaccine, this is what put people off having it all the scaremongering. The EMA told the EU that the vaccine is safe and they seem to have stopped the scaremongering now. I feel sorry for the citizens of other European countries being affected by this rollercoaster ride the EU have took them on and not being vaccinated. I have had my first Oxford AZ vaccine in February and apart from a sore arm and a few side effects there is nothing wrong with it. The EU have to stop being bullies as this is certainly how they are coming across and work with the firm's making the vaccine instead of threatening countries doing better than them with court action out of jealousy. The EU will damage their reputation on the world stage the way the are carrying on especially Ursula von der Leyen.


Do you have a link to the EU personally discrediting the AZ vaccine? I can't find anything.

The few people I know who've had the AZ vaccine have said much the same thing regarding side effects. They've had both jabs (age and work reasons why they've had both now). I guess my time for a jab is a few months off, but I'm not put off.


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## Magyarmum (Apr 27, 2015)

Snoringbear said:


> Do you have a link to the EU personally discrediting the AZ vaccine? I can't find anything.
> 
> The few people I know who've had the AZ vaccine have said much the same thing regarding side effects. They've had both jabs (age and work reasons why they've had both now). I guess my time for a jab is a few months off, but I'm not put off.


This is the statement made by France's "Europe" Minister Clement Beaune which started the furore. Further fuelled by Sandra Gallina the EU official who negotiated the contract with AZ.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-criticises-uks-risky-covid-vaccine-strategy

*French minister criticises UK's 'risky' Covid vaccine strategy*

Long before the criticism about the efficacy of the AstraZeneca vaccine EU member countries were complaining about the slow turnout. In Hungary where I live we were sometimes only receiving enough vaccine each week to vaccinate 10,000 people which is a drop int the ocean. Hungary got rapped over the knuckle for ordering the Chinese Sinopharm and Russian Sputnik V vaccines in order to speed up their programme. The EU are now saying that neither vaccine will be recognised on the proposed EU vaccine passports which is rather petty and shortsighted considering Europe's tourist industry is heavily dependant on the Chinese and visitors from countries like the UAE who also use the the Sinopharm vaccine.

To date nearly 2 million Hungarians have received their first jab and around half a million their second. Way above most other EU countries. I had my first jab of the Sinopharm vaccine a month ago.No side effects whatsoever, in fact I couldn't even see a mark on my arm. My second jab is today and I'm hoping once again I'll have no side effects


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

Magyarmum said:


> This is the statement made by France's "Europe" Minister Clement Beaune which started the furore. Further fuelled by Sandra Gallina the EU official who negotiated the contract with AZ.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-criticises-uks-risky-covid-vaccine-strategy
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link, but there's nothing in that article that suggests the EU themselves are discrediting, or as the previous poster put "scaremongering", the AZ vaccine.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

rona said:


> Even in my wildest dreams (hopes) could I have imagined the EU proving virtually everything negative I'd said about them over the last 4 years.
> It's just heartbreaking that it's the people of the EU that are suffering.If you can pass the blame to the UK you can cover what's happening and protect your own arses


OT but the latest is that the EU are lifting its ban on feeding animal remains to livestock . It was banned when BSE was rife.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock

A ban on farm feed made of animal remains introduced during the BSE crisis is to be lifted in the EU to allow cheap pig protein to be fed to chickens over fears that European farmers are being undercut by lower standards elsewhere.

The change to the regulations come into force in August following a last-ditch attempt by a coalition of MEPs, led by the Greens, which failed on Tuesday to kill the policy. The EU's member states have already endorsed the regulation, with only France and Ireland abstaining.


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## Siskin (Nov 13, 2012)

Great, welcome back BSE (not). How short sighted and awful. Hopefully the U.K. won’t follow suit.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Siskin said:


> Great, welcome back BSE (not). How short sighted and awful. Hopefully the U.K. won't follow suit.


The change which let BSE lose was to the rules about rendering. Until the ban, farmers used to get paid for fallen stock, now they have to pay for them to be taken away.


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