# Bring Back The Big Cats: is it time to start rewilding Britain?



## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

I certainly think so.

Bring back the big cats: is it time to start rewilding Britain?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Rewilding has already started


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

Not so sure ....... extremely complicated.

More species for the poachers/farmers/hunters to blame for stock losses and, therefore, persecute?

Certain people are already moaning about beavers being re-introduced back into the UK in restricted areas.

Concentrate on preserving/protecting what we have.


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Lurcherlad said:


> Not so sure ....... extremely complicated.
> 
> More species for the poachers/farmers/hunters to blame for stock losses and, therefore, persecute?
> 
> ...


Agree entirely.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I would like to see rewilding, but I can see it causing problems, people may blame the loss of cats, livestock etc on these animals, however untrue it be, be a good excuse for people with guns to hunt the predators. 

Do it quietly however, now that may work. After they have been around a few years then mention it, if people start blaming the creatures for things, then admit they have been around for X amount of time and nothing has happened.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

The Iberian lynx may have a home here to control rabbits. Also Bison, Elk and Beaver are being considered as an experiment into rewilding with wild farming.

If you rewild you lose land that feeds us. An alternative farming method should be found.

Maybe these would be an answer
Urban farming looking up in Singapore - CNN.com

Or maybe they'd just make room for more houses


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

It's a good idea in theory and I'd love to see wild elk in Ireland. But we haven't had big predators, except humans of course, for a long time, we don't know the impact it will have on the wildlife :001_unsure:


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

I think Lynx will be in this country within 5 years, probably a lot quicker. I think they will be under strict control and observant, probably via trackers of some sort but on the QT.  That's if they aren't here now!!!!!
Then if that works out without issue, it's possible they will be released into the wilder areas of the UK.

I hope so 

Lynx UK Trust, a conservation charity reintroducing captive bred Eurasian lynx to the British Isles

Not sure any predators much bigger will ever be reintroduced though


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Lynx are stunning animals and most of them need all the help they can get. But cats don't tend to make good ecotourism opportunities unless they're show offs/too lazy to move like lions. If it's all monitored and the impact minimised it could be great.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> Lynx are stunning animals and most of them need all the help they can get. But cats don't tend to make good ecotourism opportunities unless they're show offs/too lazy to move like lions. If it's all monitored and the impact minimised it could be great.


I think, as I said they will not necessarily be use in the first instance for tourism but as bunny control method


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

rona said:


> I think, as I said they will not necessarily be use in the first instance for tourism but as bunny control method


Got to be better than myxi anyway, but there have been bad results introducing predators to clean up certain prey in the past particularly on islands. Although we understand ecosystems much better now.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> Got to be better than myxi anyway, but there have been bad results introducing predators to clean up certain prey in the past particularly on islands. Although we understand ecosystems much better now.


This would be in a very controlled way in a very controlled environment (though free roaming)
Ideal as test for further introductions into the wider countryside 

Funnily enough by one of those Huntin, shootin folk that are so lambasted on here


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Sadly, I don't think we have enough wild places in the UK any more to support any large predators being reintroduced.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

My only fear about reintroducing them is persecution as well. Prejudice towards predators is strong as ever - you only need to look at the conflict between raptors & grouse moors for example.



Moobli said:


> Sadly, I don't think we have enough wild places in the UK any more to support any large predators being reintroduced.


According to the leading expert on the subject, biologist David Hetherington, the Scottish Highlands could support a genetically viable population of around 400 lynx. Lynx are roe deer specialists & they pose little threat to sheep Moobli because they are animals of the forest


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> It's a good idea in theory and I'd love to see wild elk in Ireland. But we haven't had big predators, except humans of course, for a long time, we don't know the impact it will have on the wildlife :001_unsure:


The impact is well studied Nicky, reintroduction would have a positive impact. The lynx would supress the deer population, enabling reforestation which would in turn benefit a wealth of other species. Large predators like wolf & lynx create trophic cascades.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> The impact is well studied Nicky, reintroduction would have a positive impact. The lynx would supress the deer population, enabling reforestation which would in turn benefit a wealth of other species. Large predators like wolf & lynx create trophic cascades.


Which would be great  and I'm all for it, provided it works how they think it will. As I said these kind of projects have been disastrous in the past. But we understand ecosystems far better than we did. If it's people looking at it rationally rather than romantic ideals of returning to a Britain that was heavily forested it might just work.


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> My only fear about reintroducing them is persecution as well. Prejudice towards predators is strong as ever - you only need to look at the conflict between raptors & grouse moors for example.
> 
> According to the leading expert on the subject, biologist David Hetherington, the Scottish Highlands could support a genetically viable population of around 400 lynx. Lynx are roe deer specialists & they pose little threat to sheep Moobli because they are animals of the forest


That is really interesting but I am still not wholly convinced. Much of the forest in the Highlands is now block plantation, rather than old fashioned Caledonian Forest. I would imagine predators of any type will go for the easiest meal ... whether that be roe deer or lamb. However, that is not my biggest fear about the reintroduction of larger predators. It is the persecution issue.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> Which would be great  and I'm all for it, provided it works how they think it will. As I said these kind of projects have been disastrous in the past. But we understand ecosystems far better than we did. If it's people looking at it rationally rather than romantic ideals of returning to a Britain that was heavily forested it might just work.





Moobli said:


> That is really interesting but I am still not wholly convinced. Much of the forest in the Highlands is now block plantation, rather than old fashioned Caledonian Forest. I would imagine predators of any type will go for the easiest meal ... whether that be roe deer or lamb. However, that is not my biggest fear about the reintroduction of larger predators. It is the persecution issue.


The Cairngorms are apparently the best place for the first reintroduction. Block plantation is ideal for lynx because it offers plenty of cover the lynx prefer. Lynx are secretive and rarely break cover so unless lambs are in the forests they are safe from this predator.

Trees for life are restoring & rewilding the great Caledonian forest. This video makes a great case for reintroducing the lynx and possibly the wolf.

[youtube_browser]/2JGA3lNOzJk[/youtube_browser]


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

In some areas they are already back - despite a lot of people brushing it under the carpet, you can't argue with lots of sightings and foot prints and attacks which show all of the signs of the big cats.

This has been happening in North Wales - several areas (usually the more remote areas near the lakes and on snowdonia, and on the moorland, and forests) have seen sightings and evidence of big cats over the last couple of decades.

Big cat sightings in North Wales lead to calls for Welsh Government investigation - Daily Post

It is well known around the parts that big cats are about, most people agree and a fair few have personally heard big cat calls in a wooded area and even seen them

Are panthers roaming Wales? | Daily Mail Online

Don't like the police's suggestion that they must be killed - I say leave them where they are


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

No doubt there probably are some big cats roaming around, there were so many in private hands when dwa was brought in and most people can't afford the housing costs. There's probably not as many as the cryptozoology people like to think though


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> No doubt there probably are some big cats roaming around, there were so many in private hands when dwa was brought in and most people can't afford the housing costs. There's probably not as many as the cryptozoology people like to think though


Lots of evidence that there are a fair few.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> Lots of evidence that there are a fair few.


Yes but if you believe some of the cypto guys there are more big cats than on the Serengeti. One even thinks we have a whole different subspecies just waiting to be found :sosp:.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> Yes but if you believe some of the cypto guys there are more big cats than on the Serengeti. One even thinks we have a whole different subspecies just waiting to be found :sosp:.


Who's that?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> Who's that?


Danny Bamping he's a spokesperson for these people
British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website

I know there are plenty of sane crypto people, but then there are the ones that believe every photo that comes across their path

Are there big cats roaming the UK? - BBC Newsbeat


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> Danny Bamping he's a spokesperson for these people
> British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website
> 
> I know there are plenty of sane crypto people, but then there are the ones that believe every photo that comes across their path
> ...


Now I know you're talking nonsense - I don't know any sane crypto people! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not familiar with Danny Bamping.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> Now I know you're talking nonsense - I don't know any sane crypto people! :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Not familiar with Danny Bamping.


Well relatively sane, I lurk on one of the forums occasionally and there are some who don't jump on every photo or tall tale. And then there's the bigfoot people :lol:


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

I once came across somebody who was convinced big foot creatures were hiding out in the mountains - for me that's a little bit too far fetched, but whatever floats your boat as they say. 

Who knows maybe some of it will be proven as true - for me though, I am happy knowing there are big cats out there, I'm not going to go as far as to say whole new species of big cat that have yet to be discovered.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> Well relatively sane, I lurk on one of the forums occasionally and there are some who don't jump on every photo or tall tale. And then there's the bigfoot people :lol:


Ah yes, you've got to be scientific about it. 



catpud said:


> I once came across somebody who was convinced big foot creatures were hiding out in the mountains - for me that's a little bit too far fetched, but whatever floats your boat as they say.


Which mountains?


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

I have no clue - something about them living in america and then listing sightings that he had heard of, footprint photo evidence, ape men and the like- I will admit to switching off and just nodding politely at the time


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

catpud said:


> I have no clue - something about them living in america and then listing sightings that he had heard of, footprint photo evidence, ape men and the like- I will admit to switching off and just nodding politely at the time


The best theory is bigfoot is/was gigantopithecus who did live alongside humans but died out millenia ago. As far as we know anyway and he lived in Asia not the US but there are plenty of bigfoot people convinced they live in the US. They've tried to prove it but when they so arrogantly proved a dna sample bigfoot went from great ape to raccoon


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> [youtube_browser]/2JGA3lNOzJk[/youtube_browser]


Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

I admit, its hard to wrap my head around what it must feel like to live somewhere without any large predators, and how it must feel at the thought of having them reintroduced.

Where we are now we have bear, bobcats, coyote, and some pretty intimidating BOP. The coyote are bold, and this time of year pretty loud, but the others I dont even think about unless I run in to scat or footprints or on a very rare occasion hear a bobcat scream (that will make the hair on the back of your neck stand up!)

But its just normal for us, I imagine its a totally different mind-set - one that will have to change if these predators are reintroduced. 260 years seems like so long ago, but then again, its really not....


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> The best theory is bigfoot is/was gigantopithecus who did live alongside humans but died out millenia ago. As far as we know anyway and he lived in Asia not the US but there are plenty of bigfoot people convinced they live in the US. They've tried to prove it but when they so arrogantly proved a dna sample bigfoot went from great ape to raccoon


There is evidence for a 'new' undiscovered primate in Sumatra - the Orang Pendek.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Shoshannah said:


> There is evidence for a 'new' undiscovered primate in Sumatra - the Orang Pendek.


Well if they're anywhere, it will be somewhere like Sumatra with what little is left of pristine rainforests. Too bad we'll lose most of the species before we discover them


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> Well if they're anywhere, it will be somewhere like Sumatra with what little is left of pristine rainforests. Too bad we'll lose most of the species before we discover them


Makes you wonder what else we've missed.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

ouesi said:


> Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
> 
> I admit, its hard to wrap my head around what it must feel like to live somewhere without any large predators, and how it must feel at the thought of having them reintroduced.
> 
> ...


You're welcome

Sadly over here we live in very sterile environment, you are so lucky to still have such an abundance of species. The UK is the largest country in Europe which no longer has any of its big predators. Infact we have lost more of our large native species both carnivore & herbivore, than any other European country except the ROI. Most of our National Parks are intensively managed. Its pretty depressing for wildlife lovers really because much of what little we have left is disappearing fast.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> You're welcome
> 
> Sadly over here we live in very sterile environment, you are so lucky to still have such an abundance of species. The UK is the largest country in Europe which no longer has any of its big predators. Infact we have lost more of our large native species both carnivore & herbivore, than any other European country except the ROI. Most of our National Parks are intensively managed. Its pretty depressing for wildlife lovers really because much of what little we have left is disappearing fast.


IDK, I could be totally wrong on this, but it seems to me that the smaller an area, the greater the need to re-wild it so that it can begin to heal?


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

ouesi said:


> IDK, I could be totally wrong on this, but it seems to me that the smaller an area, the greater the need to re-wild it so that it can begin to heal?


I'm all for rewilding any size area Scotland has so much potential for large species reintroduction though. I notice on the wolf thread you mention the Alladale estate. They have been lobbying for years to bring back the wolf. They have began rewilding with some boar & elk, though last time I checked they only had a couple of elk & not many boar. :/


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Scottish Wildlife Trust is now calling for lynx reintroduction BBC News - Scottish Wildlife Trust calls for lynx reintroduction

The Scottish Wildlife Trust has called for the reintroduction of the lynx to Scotland.

The charity said there was a "moral and ecological" case for the return of the once native Eurasian lynx.

The animal was hunted to extinction in the UK hundreds of years ago.

The wildlife trust believes the reintroduction of predators like the lynx would help restore balance in Scotland's natural ecosystems.

The lynx is the third largest predator in Europe, after the brown bear and the wolf.

It can currently be found in the forests of western Europe, Russia and central Asia.

It can currently be found in the forests of western Europe, Russia and central Asia.

'Right locations'

Jonny Hughes, the Scottish Wildlife Trust's chief executive, said: "The Scottish Wildlife Trust has experience in bringing keystone species back to Scotland, having been a lead partner in the ground-breaking Scottish Beaver Trial, a trial reintroduction of the Eurasian beaver to Argyll.

"We believe that lynx should also be considered for reintroduction and in many ways could be a flagship for the restoration of native habitats, particularly woodlands, into the future."

He added: "Finding the right locations will be one of the major challenges for a potential lynx project and there will be a range of stakeholders who will need to work in partnership to ensure the best chance of success and support, as has been the case in the Scottish Beaver Trial.

"It is important that we all understand the potential benefits of bringing back the lynx to our woodland ecosystems, but also to our forestry and tourism industries.

"At the same time we should understand the challenges that this beautiful once-native cat will bring with it."

Earlier this year, conservation charity Trees for Life and writer George Monbiot promoted the reinstatement of the Eurasian lynx to Scotland


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