# 4 day old kittens hardly gaining



## me1bee (Jul 30, 2012)

My queen who is normally an 'earth mother' queen, has had a litter of 4 early hours Thursday, we are hand feeding one little guy who will probably fade, we are just managing to sustain his weight but he wont gain. My concern is that the other 3 are only gaining barely 5gms per day. Normally I would expect at least 10g from this queen. I've never had this problem before with a whole litter, which is making me suspect there may be something wrong with the nutritional content of her milk, or she is not producing enough. Any ideas anyone? I have a host of suplements, catac feeders etc and the queen is eating well and is well in herself. Should I feed her some RC babycat milk, would this make any difference?


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Hopefully an actual breeder will come on and help you out, but I think in most cases they do recommend topping the babies up, as they can't survive if they aren't getting proper nutrition, and I'm guessing they might suggest a trip to the vet could be in order.

God luck. It must be so nervewracking to have to worry so about the wee ones.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_as above poster said, hopefully a breeder will reply to your post with some helpful advise. _


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## me1bee (Jul 30, 2012)

good and bad news, we are loosing the teeny one, she wont take any supplementary feed and she has lost well over 10 % of her body weight. We dont expect her to last the day  Its horrible when this happens and you feel so helpless as they just fade away, but you cant save them all. But the larger two have gained a full 10gms overnight and the smaller one is taking some bottle and has managed an overnight gain of 5gms so we are confident he is on the up.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

What are you supplementing with? Only asking because I have had more success with home made recipes than the stuff you get in tins from the vets. Have a google and see for yourself. There are some good recipes with watered down carnation milk. Also what kind of bottle are you using? Sometimes a syringe is better if they are soooo tiny.


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## me1bee (Jul 30, 2012)

HI,
I've been using Royal Canin Babycat milk for the supplement, and a catac feeder with ST1 teats. I also have a mass range of syringes and other teats but I seem to have the most sucess with the catac feeder. I have made kitten gloop before but only for older kitties, I normally use carnation milk, egg, live yoghurt, spoonful of mayonnaise & honey and gelatin. Would you say try it on the teeny fader?


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Yes!

Please let us have an update. Fingers crossed for this little one.


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## me1bee (Jul 30, 2012)

so far we've managed 3 x lots of tube feeding @ 2gm per time. She is only teeny, 68g so I didnt want to give her too much. She is very weak and we dont think she will live, but I never give up on a kitten as we managed to save a fader once, he dropped to just 64gms and he was literally at deaths door. He now lives with my good friend and is fighting fit and very large and the most loving cat ever. I miss his company every day! He was just a poor suckler, and couldnt compete with his larger littermates. I've never tube fed before but it seemed like a final option but I dont think its working unfortunately.


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

You never know, just dont give up! Got everything crossed for you


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Have you given the fader some Nutri-drops? They worked wonders for me with a lazy suckler last year at stimulating his apetite.


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## me1bee (Jul 30, 2012)

Hi, I tried the nutri drops and also Hypostop gel as this is absorbed through the gums and does not need to be digested, but we still lost the little one during the early hours. I know we did everything possible and sometimes its just natures way, so I dont feel like we let her down. Thanks for everyones hints n tips


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)




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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

So sorry you lost the little one.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_so sorry you lost the little one, but you did all you could. I have my fingers crossed for the rest of the litter, keep us posted xx_


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Really sorry you lost the little fader. Did you blood type mum and/or dad before mating? If not, then this *might* be a possible explannation for why these kits aren't thriving.


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## me1bee (Jul 30, 2012)

I need to alter the title of the thread now, as the largest two are gaining fine  - 20g over 24hrs now. The smaller one is slower but still gaining 8g so this is ok. Worry over, her teats have just taken a while longer to work.


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## Babette (Jul 3, 2008)

How awfull it must be for you. I never give anything. If the mum is ok put the babies on her nippels 1 time each hour. The more they "eat" the more milk mum will produce. Sometimes the blodtype mum and the babies have gives the problems, blood incompatibilities. It may be bacteria that have attacked them. If so mums milk and the help of a vet is what might help them. They might have a born defect that make them unfit for living.

Have you made this mating before?

In cases like this one realy want to be able to use magic. Hope you mannage to save some.

Sorry I did not see your latest post. Good to hear.


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## me1bee (Jul 30, 2012)

HI, 
Its the 3rd time with this mating, my girl only has small litters and they never have to fight for a teat. A while ago, we managed to save a fader - bottle fed consistantly from the 3rd day and he survived after dropping to just 64gms. That was amazing as I know its normally natures way of letting them go, but this little guy just had a poor suckle. Every feed we kept thinking we would loose him, and even the vet said that we may just find him dead at 4 - 6 weeks as this is not uncommon. He lived though! he is a stunning lovelable boy who is healthy and fit now. This sort of spurs us on to try the bottle feeding, even if its only a low save rate, its a fab feeling to know you did it!


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Again, have you blood typed the dam and/or the sire? If you've had faders before, then this may be a very real concern and could explain why.


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## me1bee (Jul 30, 2012)

I havent blood typed the parents and I only get the odd fading kitten, its not a lot but I see your point. Over 8 years I have only lost 5 kittens, - all under 1 week old, I am not a large breeder, so I imagined this fatality rate was if anything a bit below normal? the vet never has never suggested blood typing but maybe I will get them done. There has never been more than one in a litter or anything to suggest a problem though.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If these are BSH then blood typing matters. It matters in some other breeds as well though not in Siamese / Orientals.

Dr. Addie - Feline Blood Groups
Dr. Addie - Feline Blood Groups Neonatal Isoerythrolysis occur in my breed


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## me1bee (Jul 30, 2012)

HI, they are ragdolls, I said previously that I need to change the title of the thread, the other 3 are all gaining well now, just took a while for her milk bar to produce. I wasnt aware of a bloody typing issue with Ragdolls, its not all the time this happens, would you still test?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Not sure. But there is a gene test for HCM in the Ragdoll, I would seriously consider getting that done, and it's not expensive in the overall scheme of things. Langford give a discount if you belong to a Breed club as well.

Found another link with info:
BLOOD GROUPS IN CATS

And testing in the UK:
Online genetic test submission form | Diagnostic Services | haematology | biochemistry | bacteriology | virology | Langford Veterinary Services


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## me1bee (Jul 30, 2012)

I have had all my cats tested for HCM, and some for lilac and PKD. I know all about the genetics and the testing and I fully agree with the knowing the status before breeding, I think this is imperitive. I would never breed without knowing the HCM status. I never had them blood grouped as I was not aware this could be a problem in Raggies, I dont consider myself to have a problem, I only have a very low fatality rate but I may well get it done for piece of mind now.


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