# Save Marius, 18mth giraffe.



## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

An 18 month old giraffe due to be killed tomorrow because he can't be used for breeding. The zoo should have thought of the outcome before they allowed the mating to happen.
Please read the petition and see what you think about signing.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/528/607/193/save-marius-the-giraffe-from-the-bolt-gun-now/


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## Jazzy (Apr 15, 2009)

Signed, poor baby


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

That's awful  Must be somewhere he can go?


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## CanIgoHome (Oct 25, 2008)

wrong on so many levels


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

They say they can't keep him because of in-breeding, surely they should have realised this, such a waste of a beautiful creature through careless breeding. Poor thing


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

:nonod: 
what will happen if they get the signatures though - I have signed but I do wonder what good it will do, especially with such a short deadline  people make me so angry sometimes, SCUM


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## Roger Downes (Sep 17, 2013)

Totally agree with the petition and have signed.


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Signed and shared on FB! 

I thought zoos worked together on breeding programmes to ensure things like this (having 'surplus' stock) didn't happen. :001_huh:


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

I signed as well. 

They bred him, they should realise their responsibility to keep him safe and well cared for - despite the fact that their error means the giraffe can't be used in a breeding programme.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Signed.

They chose to breed him, they should take responsibilty.

I hope that the petition can help, and that public shaming will make them look for a better solution.

They are such beautiful animals.


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

Surely if they got him for breeding they have room for him because if he bred they would have more. Why do they need him to breed anyway? Surely those that like zoos would be just as happy to see him.
Iv signed


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> :nonod:
> what will happen if they get the signatures though - I have signed but I do wonder what good it will do, especially with such a short deadline  people make me so angry sometimes, SCUM


Sadly I think they will ignore the petition anyway but maybe it will help others.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

It makes you wonder what other animals are culled in zoos, simply because they don't fit the current plan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26098935


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

I have signed, shocking the zoo will make loads in profit, why couldn't they just build him another enclosure, they bred him so they need to deal with the responsibility.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Signed . They knew that he would have no place in their breeding program when they allowed his parents to produce him  They now have a duty of care to find him somewhere that he can live a long and happy life,not just dispose of him because he is surplus to their requirements


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## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Summersky said:


> It makes you wonder what other animals are culled in zoos, simply because they don't fit the current plan.
> 
> BBC News - Campaign for giraffe facing death at Copenhagen zoo


The above article states that 2 zoos have offered the little guy a home. I hope one of them is successful.

However, if I am ever in the same room as this pathetic little excuse for a human being, I will not be responsible for my actions. By the time I was finished with him he'd be begging for a bolt gun!!!! :cursing: :mad5:

_Bengt Holst, scientific director at the Danish zoo, said Marius's genes were already well represented among giraffes at the zoo.

He could not understand the fuss Marius's impending destruction had generated, pointing out that, for instance, 700-800 deer are killed every year at a deer park north of Copenhagen to control their numbers.

Marius is due to be killed by a bolt gun. The zoo will not use a lethal injection, because that would contaminate the meat.

The zoo plans to dissect the animal after it has been killed, before feeding it to the tigers and other carnivores.

"It would be absolutely foolish to throw away a few hundred kilos of meat," Mr Holst said according to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet. "Some is used for research and the rest for food."_

.


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## xgemma86x (Feb 13, 2009)

Yorkshire Wildlife Park have put in a bid to save Marius. I visited this park last year and their giraffe enclosure is amazing  I really hope they are successful.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

It probably would have been a different outcome had the giraffe been female. I don't know anything about giraffe behaviour but in a herd of horses an 18month old male would be a huge problem.

Horses are shot with a bolt gun or injection too. If they are going to kill this animal then at least the meat won't go to waste.

Its a hard fact of life....animals need meat and others have to die to provide that.

As long as this is done humanely, don't see the problem with it.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

I saw this on the news yesterday and was disgusted

If they're going to run a breeding programme - then they should accept that males can also be born & either be prepared to keep them or have homes for them

Saying that - in our own dairy cow herds, thousands of male calves are slaughtered each year and no-one seems able to stop that barbaric practice ...

I so hope he can be found a home


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## xgemma86x (Feb 13, 2009)

Lilylass said:


> I saw this on the news yesterday and was disgusted
> 
> If they're going to run a breeding programme - then they should accept that males can also be born & either be prepared to keep them or have homes for them
> 
> ...


Unfortunately Marius has been killed 
BBC News - &#039;Surplus&#039; giraffe put down at Copenhagen Zoo


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Just read the news that he's been destroyed.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm disgusted... and what with reading today how Longleat killed a lion, lioness and are four cubs last month


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## xgemma86x (Feb 13, 2009)

Hanwombat said:


> I'm disgusted... and what with reading today how Longleat killed a lion, lioness and are four cubs last month


Wtf is wrong with these people!


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

xgemma86x said:


> Wtf is wrong with these people!


I used to like Longleat as well 

Outrage as lioness and cubs who were the pride of Longleat are put down leaving staff in tears | Mail Online


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Poor baby Marius - Shame on Copenhagen zoo! - I hope the public boycott & they have to close it down!



Hanwombat said:


> I used to like Longleat as well
> 
> Outrage as lioness and cubs who were the pride of Longleat are put down leaving staff in tears | Mail Online


Most British zoos kill their stock - Edinburgh zoo killed off an entire pack of wolves This is one of the reasons I boycott most zoos, the only ones I support are Aspinalls & Jersey zoo because they do so much for conservation in the wild.

.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

Gutting, when 2 other zoos had offered to take him.

I hope people boycott the zoo.

They need to look closer at their breeding programme, and what they will do with the inevitable males.


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## jill3 (Feb 18, 2009)

so sad.
Poor marius

R.I.P Little one.
Let down again by Humans!:mad5:


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

Wish id never looked back at this thread, poor Marius :crying:, he could of had a home


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

R.I.P Marius,another life destroyed unnecessarily.


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

I have just read what they have done. I hope people boycott the zoo.

Who the hell do they think they are? How can you kill an innocent creature especially as other zoos had offered to take him. Zoos are supposed to conserve life, not take it away.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Thanks everyone for replying and signing. Sadly to no avail. Poor Marius





lilythepink said:


> It probably would have been a different outcome had the giraffe been female. I don't know anything about giraffe behaviour but in a herd of horses an 18month old male would be a huge problem.
> 
> *Horses are shot with a bolt gun or injection too. If they are going to kill this animal then at least the meat won't go to waste.
> 
> ...


I don't have a problem with feeding other animals, my problem is the lack of fore thought that went into his breeding. As others have pointed out it seems to be a common occurrence in zoos.


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

Until I can kill another human and it be accepted then the word humanely means nothing. That's just a word to sugarcoat the act of murder to make us feel less guilty.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Poor baby Marius - Shame on Copenhagen zoo! - I hope the public boycott & they have to close it down!


Trouble is that would just give them an excuse to destroy more 

Absolutely disgusted - if other places had offered to take him & were willing to take responsibility for him, they should've let him


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I saw this on the news this morning, I hadn't seen this thread.

I felt sick when I read it and I cannot believe people in this world any more. Killing animals for fun and now a place that says they are preserving animals have done this when the poor thing was offered a new zoo. 

It's trending on twitter now and I very foolishly looked, do not look because it show the poor thing dead and it has turned into some sick exhibition.

I don't know what is wrong with people, but for sure they do not love animals.

This and the longleat lions on one day.  Shocking.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> I saw this on the news this morning, I hadn't seen this thread.
> 
> I felt sick when I read it and I cannot believe people in this world any more. Killing animals for fun and now a place that says they are preserving animals have done this when the poor thing was offered a new zoo.
> 
> ...


I saw it on twitter too, i think it was a public autopsy, his meat went to feed the lions


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I saw the photos my mistake, upset me now  Poor giraffe!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

grumpy goby said:


> I saw it on twitter too, i think it was a public autopsy, his meat went to feed the lions


In the photo's there are small children at the front. I don't know who wants to take their children to something like that? 

The whole thing just makes me feel so sick. Why are people so cruel?


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> In the photo's there are small children at the front. I don't know who wants to take their children to something like that?
> 
> The whole thing just makes me feel so sick. Why are people so cruel?


Educational value I suppose? I dont know... as a child Im pretty sure it would have upset me greatly (it does as an adult). Maybe it shows a different culture in denmark?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

delca1 said:


> Thanks everyone for replying and signing. Sadly to no avail. Poor Marius
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a problem with feeding other animals, my problem is the lack of fore thought that went into his breeding. As others have pointed out it seems to be a common occurrence in zoos.


I don't know much about giraffe behaviour....like if you can keep males together in a herd....probably not. The giraffe would have had a better chance had he been female no doubt.

A couple of weeks ago there was a photo put up on FB of a small group of British Native ponies that had been bought by a zoo to feed the carnivores and there was a petition going to stop them being shot and killed.

whats the difference between a horse/pony, a cow, a donkey....or a giraffe?
Its a myth that only old and knackered animals are killed to be fed to other animals either in zoos or as pet food.

I didn't think giraffes were on the endangered list.....please correct me if I am wrong.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Lilylass said:


> I saw this on the news yesterday and was disgusted
> 
> If they're going to run a breeding programme - then they should accept that males can also be born & either be prepared to keep them or have homes for them
> 
> ...


It used to be common practice for male dairy bull calves to be culled cos they were worthless. Many were exported to the continent to be put into veal crates but more were shot just after birth and thrown away.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Post here says Marius was 18 months old......petition says 6 months old.which is it?


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## Lizz1155 (Jun 16, 2013)

CharleyRogan said:


> Until I can kill *another* human and it be accepted then the word humanely means nothing. That's just a word to sugarcoat the act of murder to make us feel less guilty.


Meaning you've already killed one...?


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Although 1 life is no more valid than another I think the difference here is that he was born into the care of the zoo, and then killed for the priviledge of that. Many Male cattle are killed for being born male, but cattle farmers don't promote themselves as preservers of animals. Whilst that does not make it right, I think most outrage wrt Marius is the apparent hypocrisy of it from the zoo's POV.

Carnivores need meat, and this meat has to come from somewhere - I am not sure where I stand on whether a life bred to die is any less worthy of outrage than a life bred into care.

Its all very confusing for me. But then I have vocalised my inner turmile with the meat industry previously. It makes me sad, and causes me distress to see the dead giraffe and bits of him in with the lions, but any more than any other animal bred for food? I dont know.

Im aware this is a convoluted post, and goes in some circles... Im really musing my internal thoughts
/ramble.

ETA They are saying moving him to other zoos didnt solve the inbreeding problem as genes are shared worldwide due to small pools of bred giraffe or some such... As another has said, not sure if they are aggressive with other males, or if the snip would have helped?


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

lilythepink said:


> Post here says Marius was 18 months old......petition says 6 months old.which is it?


He's 18 months, there is only the petition that says 6 months


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

It's just makes me cry that we can treat an animals life so cheaply, we really don't deserve to share the planet with them. :sad:


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Summersky said:


> It makes you wonder what other animals are culled in zoos, simply because they don't fit the current plan.
> 
> BBC News - &#039;Surplus&#039; giraffe put down at Copenhagen Zoo


I think its a bit sick having kids around......I hope they didn't watch Marius being shot?


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

emma20 said:


> He's 18 months, there is only the petition that says 6 months


it says 2 years old on the link where they were cutting him up.


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Just upsets how they butchered him as if he never meant anything to them  Its upset me all day


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

grumpy goby said:


> Although 1 life is no more valid than another I think the difference here is that he was born into the care of the zoo, and then killed for the priviledge of that. Many Male cattle are killed for being born male, but cattle farmers don't promote themselves as preservers of animals. Whilst that does not make it right, I think most outrage wrt Marius is the apparent hypocrisy of it from the zoo's POV.
> 
> Carnivores need meat, and this meat has to come from somewhere - I am not sure where I stand on whether a life bred to die is any less worthy of outrage than a life bred into care.
> 
> ...


seems to be saying that his genes were not good enough to be included in a breeding programme.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

doesn't say exactly why not.....probably they will never tell.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

That's a big animal that's going to take a lot of resources to keep and they can't use him in the captive breeding programme. It makes sense to have euthanised him. This is a species with a tiny population and an even smaller number of animals that can be used for breeding, they can only use certain ones to prevent too high levels of inbreeding or passing on genetic problems. 

Would people be feeling the same way if this was a pacman frog? Or a rhino iguana? I doubt it but giraffes are just so much more charismatic the same reason they use snow leopards and penguins to advertise wwf.

I care about animals but, and I know the horror, the world isn't all pink and fluffy. Sometimes people have to make hard decisions


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## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

MoggyBaby said:


> Signed and shared on FB!
> 
> I thought zoos worked together on breeding programmes to ensure things like this (having 'surplus' stock) didn't happen. :001_huh:





Summersky said:


> It makes you wonder what other animals are culled in zoos, simply because they don't fit the current plan.
> 
> This is NOT the way British zoo's run and as far as I'm aware this would be illegal in this country.





Nicky10 said:


> That's a big animal that's going to take a lot of resources to keep and they can't use him in the captive breeding programme. It makes sense to have euthanised him. This is a species with a tiny population and an even smaller number of animals that can be used for breeding, they can only use certain ones to prevent too high levels of inbreeding or passing on genetic problems.
> 
> Would people be feeling the same way if this was a pacman frog? Or a rhino iguana? I doubt it but giraffes are just so much more charismatic the same reason they use snow leopards and penguins to advertise wwf.
> 
> I care about animals but, and I know the horror, the world isn't all pink and fluffy. Sometimes people have to make hard decisions


...
You know nothing, apparently as regards this.

They were not required to keep 'him' as breeding stock; they ARE required to keep healthy animals alive and if this happened here the zoo would, possibly be closed.

You know I've worked very closely with zoos and you're talking cr*p


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> It's just makes me cry that we can treat an animals life so cheaply, we really don't deserve to share the planet with them. :sad:


Its not a happy event to take an animals life at all......but, what do you feed your dog?


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

xgemma86x said:


> Unfortunately Marius has been killed
> BBC News - 'Surplus' giraffe put down at Copenhagen Zoo


I wish I could get a bolt gun and shoot the person who killed him, I am totally gutted and find this very sick, I wish they could prosecute the so called zoo


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> That's a big animal that's going to take a lot of resources to keep and they can't use him in the captive breeding programme. *It makes sense to have euthanised him*.
> 
> I care about animals but, and I know the horror, the world isn't all pink and fluffy. Sometimes people have to make hard decisions


If other zoo's have offered a home for him why did it make sense to euthanize 

Nothing "pink and fluffy" about feeling disgust at mans disregard for the life of an animal just because it doesn't suit their plans.Should have thought about that before breeding


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

This zoo has no respect for their animals they are sick cannibals they weren't satisfied they had put him to sleep but they then invited anyone to watch him be dissected and fed to lions/tigers ..... children where even aloud how is this acceptable I am so mad


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Meh it was that or cremate him right? How is this any different to feeding the lions and tigers a cow? Or a horse? Obligate carnivores and all that they can't live off grass. But *clutches at pearls* we must make all children think everything is a herbivore.

We kill animals everyday because it's convenient for us. We spray crops with pesticides, we kill mosquitoes because they're possibly the second most dangerous animal on the planet after us. No one throws a fit over this because they're not large and charismatic.

Emma says it would be illegal here and yes it was sad


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

My understanding was that there were two zoos prepared to take him.

If so, how can it possibly be the right decision to kill him? I thought zoos worked together.

Doesn't make sense to me - oh, and "pink and fluffy" I am not.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> Meh it was that or cremate him right? How is this any different to feeding the lions and tigers a cow? Or a horse? Obligate carnivores and all that they can't live off grass. But *clutches at pearls* we must make all children think everything is a herbivore.
> 
> We kill animals everyday because it's convenient for us. We spray crops with pesticides, we kill mosquitoes because they're possibly the second most dangerous animal on the planet after us. No one throws a fit over this because they're not large and charismatic.
> 
> Emma says it would be illegal here and yes it was sad


It is as they are bred for food he was not, he had zoo's wanting to take him on, putting him to sleep was one thing, I can just about accept, but to dissect him like some freak show shortly after death to me is just sick and I mean sick, I sometimes breed ferrets what should I do if I have too many males? kill them, as I don't need them......... oh no wait, I respect and value life and am responsible enough to realise if I bring them into the world then I must look after them until they pass away, I respect all of my animals, each one is loved and played with and well fed, if they can't house a single male then they can't breed anymore. I will fail to see you saying its normal we eat cows etc, he was not a cow!


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

Nicky10 said:


> That's a big animal that's going to take a lot of resources to keep and they can't use him in the captive breeding programme. It makes sense to have euthanised him. This is a species with a tiny population and an even smaller number of animals that can be used for breeding, they can only use certain ones to prevent too high levels of inbreeding or passing on genetic problems.
> 
> Would people be feeling the same way if this was a pacman frog? Or a rhino iguana? I doubt it but giraffes are just so much more charismatic the same reason they use snow leopards and penguins to advertise wwf.
> 
> I care about animals but, and I know the horror, the world isn't all pink and fluffy. Sometimes people have to make hard decisions


If they are so small in numbers as you say all the more reason not to kill one just for the hell of it.

Lots of animals are kept in conservation even though they cannot breed, isn't that the point, not to slaughter it for the meat.

The world may not be pink and fluffy and I am well aware of that, but it doesn't mean that this is in any way right.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

DKDREAM said:


> It is as they are bred for food he was not, he had zoo's wanting to take him on, putting him to sleep was one thing, I can just about accept, but to dissect him like some freak show shortly after death to me is just sick and I mean sick, I sometimes breed ferrets what should I do if I have too many males? kill them, as I don't need them......... oh no wait, I respect and value life and am responsible enough to realise if I bring them into the world then I must look after them until they pass away, I respect all of my animals, each one is loved and played with and well fed, if they can't house a single male then they can't breed anymore. I will fail to see you saying its normal we eat cows etc, he was not a cow!


huge difference between breeding and keeping a ferret compared to a giraffe? Ferrets eat meat don't they?


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

lilythepink said:


> huge difference between breeding and keeping a ferret compared to a giraffe? Ferrets eat meat don't they?


what is the difference, and yes they do, your right, but the difference is they don't eat giraffe's The Zoo was offered 2 places he could of went, cost is nothing, and who said it was 1 ferret, it could in theory of been 10 boy ferrets if she only had males. The difference here is I respect animals and don't breed if I don't have the room it really is that simple.

as far as I am aware it had nothing to do with the cost it would be to keep him, but the fact he wasn't suitable to breed from because of his breeding. This they knew the moment his mother was paired with his father, meaning they could of found a home for him if he was male or female. Basically the zoo has no excuse, they murdered him and then cut him up like some freak show.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Ferret= small, relatively easy to keep, giraffe= many times the size, lots of food and space required. Maybe they should have kept him as a neutered male as apparently they would have had to here but it was their choice. 

I don't like that they did it either but I can see why they did. I'm pointing out that there wouldn't be such an outcry if they had killed an endangered spider or toad.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I don't understand this to be honest. I thought zoo's were meant to help animals regardless, not destroy them for no good reason. 

Coming from the sort of people who are against animals being abused, hunted, and tortured for mere entertainment, they take away an animals life based on what exactly?


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I believe Brian May has a petition going to close this zoo down, on facebook


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> Ferret= small, relatively easy to keep, giraffe= many times the size, lots of food and space required. Maybe they should have kept him as a neutered male as apparently they would have had to here but it was their choice.
> 
> I don't like that they did it either but I can see why they did. I'm pointing out that there wouldn't be such an outcry if they had killed an endangered spider or toad.


I think there would of been if people knew about it as some people are passionate,

I get what you say about the size of the animal, but if I did have 10 males I would have to have 10 separate cages or have them all neutered witch can be costly, but if that did happen it is something I would do as I was the one who brought them into the world. I feel so physically sick that they didn't even respect his body in death, I can just accept they put him to sleep, but on second thoughts I don't as he had 2 offers of a good home and a decent life.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

jaycee05 said:


> I believe Brian May has a petition going to close this zoo down, on facebook


Can you post the link as I will sign it


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## xgemma86x (Feb 13, 2009)

jaycee05 said:


> I believe Brian May has a petition going to close this zoo down, on facebook


If you find it,please post. I'd be happy to sign it x


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

DKDREAM said:


> I think there would of been if people knew about it as some people are passionate,
> 
> I get what you say about the size of the animal, but if I did have 10 males I would have to have 10 separate cages or have them all neutered witch can be costly, but if that did happen it is something I would do as I was the one who brought them into the world. I feel so physically sick that they didn't even respect his body in death, I can just accept they put him to sleep, but on second thoughts I don't as he had 2 offers of a good home and a decent life.


Define respecting his body in death, there were 2 choices 
1) Burn it to ash 
2) Feed a herbivore to carnivores 
It would depend on your definition of respect I suppose.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

If that did happen, what would happen to all the other animals? 

I won't sign just yet if there is a petition going for that.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> Define respecting his body in death, there were 2 choices
> 1) Burn it to ash
> 2) Feed a herbivore to carnivores
> It would depend on your definition of respect I suppose.


They dissected him in the public view, to me they should of done it out of sight and who knows they may of killed him in public too, this to me isn't respecting an animal. They have made him like some freak show.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

DKDREAM said:


> what is the difference, and yes they do, your right, but the difference is they don't eat giraffe's The Zoo was offered 2 places he could of went, cost is nothing, and who said it was 1 ferret, it could in theory of been 10 boy ferrets if she only had males. The difference here is I respect animals and don't breed if I don't have the room it really is that simple.
> 
> as far as I am aware it had nothing to do with the cost it would be to keep him, but the fact he wasn't suitable to breed from because of his breeding. This they knew the moment his mother was paired with his father, meaning they could of found a home for him if he was male or female. Basically the zoo has no excuse, they murdered him and then cut him up like some freak show.


1000 ferrets wouldn't cost as much to keep as 1 giraffe.

Its good you respect animals....I have yet to come across a veggie ferret. If you go to any family butcher, you will see the whole carcase of a cow, a pig and a sheep. This will be cut up to sell.....not a freak show. The zoo was cutting up a carcase to distribute more evenly to the predators in the zoo.Not a freak show.
My daughter is a chef. We regularly have roadkill deer at my house for dogs.....and plenty other roadkill. My daughter cuts the deer up so it fits in my freezers easier.My grandchildren have watched her do this.

My husband is a beef farmer. My kids have walked through my fields with me when I have chosen which cow will go to slaughter that week.

My kids have gone with their dad to take an animal to a slaughterhouse, they have been with either myself or my husband when we have gone to pick it up....all sliced and diced.

The trouble now is people don't add 2+2 and get 4, they think all meat never lived, never had feeling and always comes in pound sized plastic bags.

I would think a giraffe is quite a valuable animal....can't see any zoo killing it and feeding it to other animals when there is much cheaper alternatives out there anyway. I am sure the zoo had good reason to do what they did.


----------



## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

DKDREAM said:


> They dissected him in the public view, to me they should of done it out of sight and who knows they may of killed him in public too, this to me isn't respecting an animal. They have made him like some freak show.


I would be horrified if they killed this animal in full public view but can't find anywhere where it suggests this on the link.

I don't have a problem with it being cut up and people watching but I think it would be OTT for sensitive beings.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

lilythepink said:


> 1000 ferrets wouldn't cost as much to keep as 1 giraffe.
> 
> Its good you respect animals....I have yet to come across a veggie ferret. If you go to any family butcher, you will see the whole carcase of a cow, a pig and a sheep. This will be cut up to sell.....not a freak show. The zoo was cutting up a carcase to distribute more evenly to the predators in the zoo.Not a freak show.
> My daughter is a chef. We regularly have roadkill deer at my house for dogs.....and plenty other roadkill. My daughter cuts the deer up so it fits in my freezers easier.My grandchildren have watched her do this.
> ...


well I think 1000 ferrets maybe would come close when you consider all their cages food and water, Ferrets aren't as cheap as some people think to keep. sorry but that is no argument. The zoo have no reason to kill him they had homes offered to take him, meaning no cost at all.

Good for you that you have been brought up on a working farm, I am all for roadkill being used to feed another animal, cows/pigs etc as they where bred for food, giraffe as far as I am aware are not, hence my strong feelings about it.

Sorry but please don't mock the fact I keep ferrets I only mentioned them in my post to explain my thoughts about if you breed them, you should keep them, witch is what I feel the zoo should of done.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

lilythepink said:


> I would be horrified if they killed this animal in full public view but can't find anywhere where it suggests this on the link.
> 
> I don't have a problem with it being cut up and people watching but I think it would be OTT for sensitive beings.


I can't either but it makes you think maybe he was as how would they lift him to the viewing point?


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I haven't seen any link to a petition myself I was told this by someone else,all I could see on his website is him suggesting a campaign to close it down
If I find a link I will let you know
It does mention that chimps have been euthanized before at this zoo, 
It is on ch 4 news now about Marius,also showed lions eating it


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

DKDREAM said:


> well I think 1000 ferrets maybe would come close when you consider all their cages food and water, Ferrets aren't as cheap as some people think to keep. sorry but that is no argument. The zoo have no reason to kill him they had homes offered to take him, meaning no cost at all.
> 
> Good for you that you have been brought up on a working farm, I am all for roadkill being used to feed another animal, cows/pigs etc as they where bred for food, giraffe as far as I am aware are not, hence my strong feelings about it.
> 
> Sorry but please don't mock the fact I keep ferrets I only mentioned them in my post to explain my thoughts about if you breed them, you should keep them, witch is what I feel the zoo should of done.


My daughter keeps ferrets, she uses them to keep vermin down.and none of her ferrets are vegetarian.

and, nobody is mocking you......yes, good for me I live on a working farm....it sort of gets rid of all the hypocrisy of people going gooey eyed at some dead animal.

Go to any zoo you like, look at what the predators are being fed. Last time I was at Chester Zoo they were feeding some of the smaller animals....possibly groundhogs, not quite sure.to the predators.

They feed day old chicks to the raptors.........gassed at a day old....I am sure that any fallen stock they have at a zoo also ends up back in the food chain. It would be silly not to.

You are never going to listen to another viewpoint so this is my last word to you on this.


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

lilythepink said:


> My daughter keeps ferrets, she uses them to keep vermin down.and none of her ferrets are vegetarian.
> 
> and, nobody is mocking you......yes, good for me I live on a working farm....it sort of gets rid of all the hypocrisy of people going gooey eyed at some dead animal.
> 
> ...


I actually feed my ferrets meat as this is the best thing for them I have nothing against animals eating meat but Marius should never of been killed the way he was. Other zoo's offered him a home.


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I haven't read all the thread so may have missed something (I also haven't clicked the link because my internet is so slow)

*But they put Marius to sleep because he was unable to produce offspring with a female? *

This was totally unfair to take his life based on this, particularly when others were willing to take him on and look after him.

*They then disected him in front of a live audice and it has been shown on television?
*

Fine to be shown in front of a live audience. But on television itself is wrong due to children seeing it.

*Then instead of burning him they fed him to lions?*

No problem with that is there? Lions will (Though not common due to their size) will attempt to take down a giraffe in the wild and feed on it? It's nature.

I don't see what the problem was with feeding him to lions to feed.

I'm just mad that they killed him because he couldn't mate. How unfair.

Do we put people down if they cannot produce children? Yes, to me the same thing does apply. We wouldn't put down a dog or a cat would we if they couldn't have babies. Totally unfair.

And, yes, I would feel the same if they killed dozens of exotic spiders. I hate spiders and never kill them. When I see frogs on the pavement after it's been raining I put them in gardens, the same with snails.

So to say people wouldn't kick up a fuss if it were something tiny and not so pretty it wrong.


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## catpud (Nov 9, 2013)

I am by no means pink and fluffy, and can see where you are coming from but it's not the fact that a giraffe was put down that bothers me as much as the circumstances surrounding it. 

It is possible to use contraceptives on giraffes (I am no expert but why wouldn't you if there was a choice to?) - if they felt that the offspring from a certain giraffe wouldn't be suitable to use in the breeding programme, why not just keep that animal on contraceptives and avoid the problem? They know in advance surely if certain genes are already to widely represented in the population? I am pretty sure they would save a lot of money in the long run so it would benefit them in more ways than one - I doubt that it is cheap to raise a giraffe for two years, to practically throw that money away seems like a waste of funding to me. 

Secondly - realising that they had made a mistake, and with two places willing to give him a place in a different zoo, why would they consider destroying him? Money from visitors going to see him in his new home, and adoption fundraising (many zoos allow members of the public to sponsor or adopt a zoo animal) could have helped the conservation of other animals - even if the money was not of much consequence the giraffe would still have been raising awareness of conservation efforts. 

You could say that they spent all of that money raising him and so wanted the meat so the money was not completely wasted but it is a lot cheaper and easier to raise a sheep or cow than a giraffe for that purpose.

It just seems like one big mess to me, with no reasonable explanation as to why they chose the path that they did. It could have been easily managed and that is what bothers me more than anything.


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## sante (Oct 4, 2013)

Poor giraffe, publicly killed, skinned and then fed to the lions (Just read about this on Sky News). This must have been horrific for those that witnessed this happen


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Animals are reared for food, killed and eaten by us and our pets all the time, the rights and wrongs will be argued about forever.
Cutting Marius up, filming the autopsy and making use of his body to feed other animals is not a problem to me, my issue is that it was not necessary to kill him, he was offered places at other zoos.


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## xgemma86x (Feb 13, 2009)

delca1 said:


> Animals are reared for food, killed and eaten by us and our pets all the time, the rights and wrongs will be argued about forever.
> Cutting Marius up, filming the autopsy and making use of his body to feed other animals is not a problem to me, my issue is that it was not necessary to kill him, he was offered places at other zoos.


Tbh I think that's the issue for most people. He was offered a perfectly decent home so why kill him?!


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm still traumatised at what they did to him  His sad lifeless face, sickens me and completely depressed me all day


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

I cant believe some of you are finding what the zoo done justifiable  

RIP Marius xxx 

refraining from saying anymore


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## Blackcats (Apr 13, 2013)

I don't think anyone has been doing that to be honest.

I completely agree with what delca said. 

My anger is why they killed him, not that they fed him to Lions. Lions eat meat so don't see the problem there. I just cannot accept why they killed him. Makes me sad and angry.

Nuff said really.


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## welshjet (Mar 31, 2011)

Bastewards


All he done wrong was being born in this excuse for a world


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Theres a petition here for those who care ... Petition | Voice outrage at Copenhagen Zoo for destroying Marius, perfectly healthy giraffe! | English - Linkis.com

ETA - a 2nd Petition demanding Bengt Holst resignation >>http://www.change.org/petitions/ben...&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition



Nicky10 said:


> That's a big animal that's going to take a lot of resources to keep and they can't use him in the captive breeding programme. It makes sense to have euthanize him. This is a species with a tiny population and an even smaller number of animals that can be used for breeding, they can only use certain ones to prevent too high levels of inbreeding or passing on genetic problems.
> 
> Would people be feeling the same way if this was a pacman frog? Or a rhino iguana? I doubt it but giraffes are just so much more charismatic the same reason they use snow leopards and penguins to advertise wwf.
> 
> I care about animals but, and I know the horror, the world isn't all pink and fluffy. Sometimes people have to make hard decisions


Zoo's breed surplus animals so they have plenty of cute babies to bring in the crowds - its nothing to do with conservation - its utterly mercenary. Nothing 'pink and fluffy' in finding that disgusting!



Flamingoes said:


> ...
> You know nothing, apparently as regards this.
> 
> They were not required to keep 'him' as breeding stock; they ARE required to keep healthy animals alive and if this happened here the zoo would, possibly be closed.
> ...


Most zoos kill surplus 'stock' - even over here Em.



Nicky10 said:


> Meh it was that or cremate him right? How is this any different to feeding the lions and tigers a cow? Or a horse? Obligate carnivores and all that they can't live off grass. But *clutches at pearls* we must make all children think everything is a herbivore.
> 
> We should be teaching children to respect ALL life -
> 
> ...


Its not illegal here - zoos kill perfectly healthy animals all the time.

Well said Brian May !!! 
Brian's Soapbox February 2014

.

.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

RIP Marius xxxxx


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Theres a petition here for those who care ... Petition | Voice outrage at Copenhagen Zoo for destroying Marius, perfectly healthy giraffe! | English - Linkis.com
> 
> ETA - a 2nd Petition demanding Bengt Holst resignation >>http://www.change.org/petitions/ben...&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition
> 
> ...


 I've signed.


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

I will sign those 2 petitions. I can't see why Marius wouldn't bring in a crowd he was gorgeous and offered 2 homes.


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

Both now signed.
Why was there an audience?


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## Cloudygirl (Jan 9, 2011)

delca1 said:


> Animals are reared for food, killed and eaten by us and our pets all the time, the rights and wrongs will be argued about forever.
> Cutting Marius up, filming the autopsy and making use of his body to feed other animals is not a problem to me, my issue is that it was not necessary to kill him, he was offered places at other zoos.


That's exactly how I feel


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

emma20 said:


> Both now signed.
> Why was there an audience?


Looks like it was some sort of sick publicity stunt to me.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Signed...


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Lilylass said:


> Trouble is that would just give them an excuse to destroy more
> 
> Absolutely disgusted - if other places had offered to take him & were willing to take responsibility for him, they should've let him


Only just seen this.

But while ever people visit its perpetuating the cruelty.

.


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Looks like it was some sort of sick publicity stunt to me.


Hopefully him responsible will get the sack


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## Roger Downes (Sep 17, 2013)

Have signed both petitions Noushka shows in her post (thanks for bringing that to our attention). Just hope people in Denmark do show their disgust by boycotting the Zoo.
As the years have passed I have become more uncomfortable visiting Zoos, to the point now I wont go to them.


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

Told my mum about it and she's signed, she wants to know where the petition is to have him shot


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

emma20 said:


> Told my mum about it and she's signed, she wants to know where the petition is to have him shot


at the top of this thread


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

DKDREAM said:


> at the top of this thread


I meant a petition to have the man that killed Marius shot


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

emma20 said:


> I meant a petition to have the man that killed Marius shot


So people are up in arms that a giraffe was killed, and then fed to lions, but they want a petition to shoot a man??

I am not saying what my views are on the giraffe (but anyone that actually knows me will know anyway), but that people are then happy to ask for a man to be shot sickens me :nonod:

Those people wanting the man shot - that makes you a better person, _how_ exactly?


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

People are really asking for the man to be killed?  There's overreaction and then there's murder. Sure throw a fit over one life lost and then demand another be taken because why exactly?


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> So people are up in arms that a giraffe was killed, and then fed to lions, but they want a petition to shoot a man??
> 
> I am not saying what my views are on the giraffe (but anyone that actually knows me will know anyway), but that people are then happy to ask for a man to be shot sickens me :nonod:
> 
> Those people wanting the man shot - that makes you a better person, _how_ exactly?





Nicky10 said:


> People are really asking for the man to be killed?  There's overreaction and then there's murder. Sure throw a fit over one life lost and then demand another be taken because why exactly?


She didn't mean literally.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I am sure it was just a figure of speech, not to be taken literally
Signed petitions
Apart from the disgust at him being killed, I am disgusted the skinning and dissecting was done in public, 
RIP Marius


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

All this outcry over a giraffe yet the dog Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) of Denmark causes how many deaths? Publicity and jumping on band wagons yet ignore what goes on all the time. Some perspective is required.


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

Goblin said:


> All this outcry over a giraffe yet the dog Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) of Denmark causes how many deaths? Publicity and jumping on band wagons yet ignore what goes on all the time. Some perspective is required.


I think the BSL has been discussed on here and elsewhere many a time - nobody agrees with that either - I find it sad you don't find an individual life to be worth getting upset about, what if lots of giraffes where killed just because they couldn't breed despite being offered a home somewhere else then would you see why people are annoyed?


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

Goblin said:


> All this outcry over a giraffe yet the dog Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) of Denmark causes how many deaths? Publicity and jumping on band wagons yet ignore what goes on all the time. Some perspective is required.


 BLS, off to google.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Goblin said:


> All this outcry over a giraffe yet the dog Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) of Denmark causes how many deaths? Publicity and jumping on band wagons yet ignore what goes on all the time. Some perspective is required.


What is it 13 breeds with talk of adding more because the first ban did nothing :thumbdown:. I couldn't find any numbers that weren't from anti-bsl sites but they don't have the best record when it comes to animals.

Tbf though most people on here are anti-BSL


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

emma20 said:


> BLS, off to google.


:blush: I have heard of it


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Whether it was a figure of speech or not, it doesnt make it OK.

Lions prey on giraffes in the wild - the giraffe was dead, it was fed to the lions.

The giraffe was dissected in a public place? I am pretty sure they didn't just decide to cut it up in a spare enclosure with no notice or warning to people. If people wanted to see (and take their kids - yep, but their decision) then I am sure they had notices telling them when and where they could go. I imagine they didnt just walk round the next bend on their zoo trip, expecting to see marmosets, to find an enclosure that was dissecting a giraffe.

The zoo will have justified why they killed the giraffe (to themselves, even if no-one else accepts it)

Why did Copenhagen zoo decide to kill Marius the giraffe? | World news | theguardian.com

Marius the giraffe skinned and fed to lions as children look on at Copenhagen Zoo | Metro News

I love giraffes - they are my favourite animal on the planet.
I don't like what has happened at all.
I dont know if it could have been prevented.

But I do know, I couldnt sign a petition asking for the bloke that runs the zoo to be shot!


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> Whether it was a figure of speech or not, it doesnt make it OK.
> 
> Lions prey on giraffes in the wild - the giraffe was dead, it was fed to the lions.
> 
> ...


she wasn't actually asking for a petition to be signed though was she? it WAS figure of speech, probably said in upset and anger - have you never said god I could kill you right now, or I could string you up or at least silently thought it, I am sure we all have, doesn't mean that we plan to get a petition together to make it happen or even go through with it

although if I was given the choice of having to kill either a human or animal I know what I would be choosing


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> she wasn't actually asking for a petition to be signed though was she? it WAS figure of speech, probably said in upset and anger - have you never said *god I could kill you right now, or I could string you up or at least silently thought it*, I am sure we all have, doesn't mean that we plan to get a petition together to make it happen or even go through with it
> 
> although if I was given the choice of having to kill either a human or animal I know what I would be choosing


Nope.

Not to say I am against the death penalty either. Someone tortures and kills another living being, yes I want them to suffer the same fate.

This giraffe was killed with a bolt gun. It wasn't tortured, it didnt have a long drawn out death. It was killed, it had a public autopsy, and it was fed to lions. Lions that would have killed it themselves in the wild, where it would have had a much slower and painful death.

Do I agree with the public autopsy? No.
Do I agree to it being killed when other zoos were willing to take it on? No.

But that doesnt make me want the bloke that runs the zoo to be shot._ His_ decision, _he_ will have to live with it.

And if you would decide to kill a human over an animal, that is _your_ decision, and something _you_ will have to live with (if it ever happened).


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## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

my point is you are jumping on the poster as if she has actually said right guys I have a bolt gun here will you sign this petition so I can justify killing the bastard, when actually she was just making a point in anger so to have a go at her is just silly - she never said anything wrong imo, she has no intention of going out and committing a crime does she 

anyway I am out on this thread it's just pissing me off now :laugh:


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Nope.
> 
> Not to say I am against the death penalty either. Someone tortures and kills another living being, yes I want them to suffer the same fate.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for upsetting you, it wasn't meant literally and I'm sorry if iv upset anyone else


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> my point is you are jumping on the poster as if she has actually said right guys I have a bolt gun here will you sign this petition so I can justify killing the bastard, when actually she was just making a point in anger so to have a go at her is just silly - she never said anything wrong imo, she has no intention of going out and committing a crime does she
> 
> anyway I am out on this thread it's just pissing me off now :laugh:


I'm not jumping on anyone!

Someone asks 'where is the petition to shoot the person that killed a giraffe' I am going to answer!

I don't actually think I was having a go at her either.

I was pointing out, in my opinion, where it was wrong to ask for a petition to kill a human, when you (general you) are so up in arms about killing a giraffe that was being fed to something that would have killed it in the natural scheme of things anyway!

I _don't_ bloody well agree with the giraffe being killed, or autopsied in public.

Just like I don't agree with someone asking where the petition is to kill a human being - does that make it clearer for you?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> This giraffe was killed with a bolt gun. It wasn't tortured, it didnt have a long drawn out death. It was killed, it had a public autopsy, and it was fed to lions. Lions that would have killed it themselves in the wild, where it would have had a much slower and painful death.
> 
> Do I agree with the public autopsy? No.


When it comes to public autopsy I'm in two minds. On one side I disagree with it but the other side is that I would prefer that people realize where meat comes from and that it's not simply "found" on a supermarket shelf. It's actually shocking how many people, especially children don't appreciate the fact that meat comes from dead animals as it's so "clean" when they see it. Was the autopsy done to sate bloodlust or was it used as a chance for education...

When it comes giving it to other zoos according to the Metro article..


> Its membership (European Association of Zoos and Aquaria) also meant it could only sell the giraffe to a zoo or organisation that followed the same rules.


So it looks as though their hands were tied. I for one would hate to be the zookeeper responsible for the well being of the animal. I know some zoo keepers personally and the well being of their animals is their primary concern.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Goblin said:


> All this outcry over a giraffe yet the dog Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) of Denmark causes how many deaths? Publicity and jumping on band wagons yet ignore what goes on all the time. Some perspective is required.


Believe it or not, some of us are quite capable of caring about other animal welfare issues at the same time - & this thread isn't about BSL, is it?



Goblin said:


> When it comes to public autopsy I'm in two minds. On one side I disagree with it but the other side is that I would prefer that people realize where meat comes from and that it's not simply "found" on a supermarket shelf. It's actually shocking how many people, especially children don't appreciate the fact that meat comes from dead animals as it's so "clean" when they see it. Was the autopsy done to sate bloodlust or was it used as a chance for education...
> 
> When it comes giving it to other zoos according to the Metro article..
> 
> So it looks as though their hands were tied. I for one would hate to be the zookeeper responsible for the well being of the animal. I know some zoo keepers personally and the well being of their animals is their primary concern.


BIAZA, EAZA consortium of zoos breed surplus young to attract the crowds - like Marius, many of these unwanted babies are then destroyed, its an endless cycle. So this isn't just about 1 giraffe ( though the life of that individual matter to me & many others). The killing of Marius has served to put the zoos in the spotlight - keeping wild animals for our amusement is cruel, its time for all but the best zoos( those making a real difference conserving wildlife in-situ) to go the way of the dodo.

.

.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

emma20 said:


> I'm sorry for upsetting you, it wasn't meant literally and I'm sorry if iv upset anyone else


I'm sure they really know that you didn't mean it literally Emma - don't worry about it


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## Rosiechi (Nov 12, 2013)

This is a shame that the giraffe was killed however let's look at it a different way for one moment. Lions eat meat. If they hadn't been fed the giraffe then a different animal would have been killed so they could eat. Not really sure there's much difference here.


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## BoogieWoogie (Nov 13, 2013)

I heard about this for the first time last night when it was on the ITV news. Thought sad I suppose it is the circle of life. The only thing I do disagree with is dismantling of the body in public, I assume no one was forced to watch but it made me feel a bit sick that people would actually want to watch something like that.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Whether it was a figure of speech or not, it doesnt make it OK.
> 
> Lions prey on giraffes in the wild - the giraffe was dead, it was fed to the lions.
> 
> ...


*
*

It really wasn't meant to be taken seriously, just a "how would he like it" comment.

If every zoo that took part in giraffe breeding had access to an all male group, then the "surplus" males produced through intentional breeding could be responsibly taken care of.

If these animals are not endangered and will never be released back into the wild, then they are there for entertainment and education only. I'm sure Joe public doesn't care whether they are looking at male or female giraffes.

Or was it that a *baby* giraffe could generate more visitors? And once he had grown up a bit, he was dispensed with?

The most sickening part is the number of people that went to watch him dismembered - especially those that took their children.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

emma20 said:


> I'm sorry for upsetting you, it wasn't meant literally and I'm sorry if iv upset anyone else


You haven't. It was clear that what you were saying wasn't meant to be taken literally.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> Believe it or not, some of us are quite capable of caring about other animal welfare issues at the same time - & this thread isn't about BSL, is it.


That's simply one example.. Some for example actively condone the closed registry breeding of animals in the UK to maintain "breeds" which often leads to untold suffering... That's just one example, there are loads of animal welfare issues, hidden away, often ignored and with no possible justification.

Just as it's highlighted in the paper.. let's not all jump on a bandwagon to "prove we care". This is yet another example on this forum of a witch hunt, with many not considering the facts. Pointing that out is a topic for this thread


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> What is it 13 breeds with talk of adding more because the first ban did nothing :thumbdown:. I couldn't find any numbers that weren't from anti-bsl sites but they don't have the best record when it comes to animals.
> 
> Tbf though most people on here are anti-BSL


I used to live in DK.
The danish record to animal welfare is equivalent to the british.
they have some welfare rules we are lacking, and some anti animal rules we dont have

swings and roundabouts. there is no cultural factor here.
there has a been a huge outcry in DK over this incident to

the same applies to good and bad 'dog rules'. same BSL mentality as the british, for example. but BSL in DK was inspired by dog on dog attacks. 
whereas they provide really good dog parks, they dont actually need dog wardens as such, as their are rarely stray dogs (even though most gardens arent even fenced off), and its much more common for danes to take their pups to training classes (unlike in britain where thats the minority of owners), and their are hardly any rescue centres as their isnt really a surplus unwanted dog problem (none of this applies to cats though, their is a terrible surplus and stray cat problem), and breeding standard rules in dk are much better than british KC ones, also including temperament.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Goblin said:


> That's simply one example.. Some for example actively condone the closed registry breeding of animals in the UK to maintain "breeds" which often leads to untold suffering... That's just one example, there are loads of animal welfare issues, hidden away, often ignored and with no possible justification.
> 
> Just as it's highlighted in the paper.. let's not all jump on a bandwagon to "prove we care". This is yet another example on this forum of a witch hunt, with many not considering the facts. Pointing that out is a topic for this thread


I don't  - >> http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/223218-pde-kc-assured-breeders-scheme-6.html#post1061856324

I'm jumping on no bandwagon - ive always had very strong opinions on the morality of keeping wild animals for our amusement - this incident has just brought it to the fore >>

. http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/156357-opinions-zoos-11.html#post2341229

http://www.petforums.co.uk/bird-chat/285641-can-you-name-bird-5.html#post1062619090

http://www.petforums.co.uk/general-chat/156357-opinions-zoos-6.html#post2336504

We don't all have limited capabilities when it comes to caring Goblin.
.
.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Summersky said:


> You haven't. It was clear that what you were saying wasn't meant to be taken literally.


Maybe it was clear to you, and maybe it was clear to me, but that doesn't mean it was clear to absolutely _everyone_ that may read it.

Some people _do_ take things literally, and don't understand 'figure of speech'.


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## CharleyRogan (Feb 20, 2009)

From reading a Telegraph report, even the petition was never going to make any difference because they just didn't care about public opinion.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> We don't all have limited capabilities when it comes to caring Goblin.


Neither have I said people do. What I have pointed out is there are two sides to everything.

People need to actually find out both sides rather than simply jump on the latest internet/social media hot topic, especially with flippant comments. Jumping on the latest "craze" actually decreases the potential support for other things.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Goblin said:


> When it comes to public autopsy I'm in two minds. On one side I disagree with it but the other side is that I would prefer that people realize where meat comes from and that it's not simply "found" on a supermarket shelf. It's actually shocking how many people, especially children don't appreciate the fact that meat comes from dead animals as it's so "clean" when they see it. Was the autopsy done to sate bloodlust or was it used as a chance for education...


I have to say that, circumstances nowithstanding, I would have considered watching a giraffe dissection absolutely fascinating, and would have done when I was a kid a well. There was a series on TV a few years back - Inside Nature's Giants, I think it was called - where they dissected a number of big animals, and it was utterly amazing. I wish they'd show it again, I missed some of it...

I suppose an alternative would been to have given the whole entire animal to the lions as a demonstration of the way nature works in the wild, but unless they have a large pride that would have wasted the majority of the carcass.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I cant believe anyone took Emmas remark seriously, remarks like this are said all the time if someone does something like hurt an animal, I have said it myself, but wouldn't do it, but it seems that zoo in Denmark does live autopsys all the time, there is another photo on facebook of that zookeeper dissecting a lion in front of an audience
I just don't think its appropriate to do this in public, if that is zoo practice to feed dead animals to others it should be done without an audience,


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> I just don't think its appropriate to do this in public, if that is zoo practice to feed dead animals to others it should be done without an audience,


So feeding fish to penguins and sea lions shouldn't be done in public. Meat shouldn't be given to wolves etc etc. What about chicks to snakes.. For that matter stop all falconry displays.

Isn't the problem really the connection people are being forced to make, that a "cute" animal was made to be food rather than the fact it was slabs of already dead meat.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

Doing an autopsy for the entertainment of the crowd is totally disgusting IMO...and I can see no other reason for dismantling a baby giraffe in front of paying customers.
However it seems like it was killed humanely and if giraffes do breed prolifically in captivity then it seems like a good solution to feed it to the lions! After all its what they would be eating in the wild, also the giraffe family would probably have a much smaller survival rate for their young in the wild anyways. Its no different then feeding them sheep or cows after all...


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Goblin said:


> So feeding fish to penguins and sea lions shouldn't be done in public. Meat shouldn't be given to wolves etc etc. What about chicks to snakes.. For that matter stop all falconry displays.
> 
> Isn't the problem really the connection people are being forced to make, that a "cute" animal was made to be food rather than the fact it was slabs of already dead meat.


I wasn't meaning don't feed meat from dead animals in general, I meant in a situation like this, where people have seen the animal dissected in public then fed to the lions, we all know where meat comes from, but I wouldn't like to see an animal just killed then bits of it thrown to the lions,especially when there was no need for that animal to be killed,and I don't thoink small children should be watching either


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

would there have been such an uproar if instead of a cute and gorgeous baby giraffe it was a warthog?

Nothing more cut than a horse foal....and yet thousands are ripped from their mothers far too soon to end up in a slaughterhouse....and they are lucky ones if it is done in the UK.

When the predators at Copenhagen zoo are not eating baby giraffe, what do any of you think they eat? Cornflakes? Their food has to come from somewhere and many perfectly fit and healthy horses and donkeys are killed specifically for this.

What do you think the zoo animals in this country are fed ?

All people demanding feeding raw for their own pets.....thats real meat, it was once alive it felt pain, it still comes looking nothing like it did when it was alive.

When you open your little sachets of cooked mush, that too once felt pain. Hard fact of life, perfectly fit and healthy animals die everyday to feed other animals...including us humans.

Maybe if more people were aware of what goes on they would have a bit more respect for all the food that is eaten.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

jaycee05 said:


> I wasn't meaning don't feed meat from dead animals in general, I meant in a situation like this, where people have seen the animal dissected in public then fed to the lions, we all know where meat comes from, but I wouldn't like to see an animal just killed then bits of it thrown to the lions,especially when there was no need for that animal to be killed,and I don't thoink small children should be watching either


so once he was shot, what then? Burn all that meat?

This animal wasn't shot as a cheap source of food for a couple of days, far cheaper ways to feed zoo animals than this.

The zoo says the giraffe was inbred. They haven't said if there were any health problems arising from this.

Considering how many people insist on health checks etc for a domestic pet, why the controversy over a zoo animal?Would anybody seriously buyt a puppy that was inbred and know about it first?


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

jaycee05 said:


> I wasn't meaning don't feed meat from dead animals in general, I meant in a situation like this, where people have seen the animal dissected in public then fed to the lions, we all know where meat comes from, but I wouldn't like to see an animal just killed then bits of it thrown to the lions,especially when there was no need for that animal to be killed,and I don't thoink small children should be watching either


You may be surprised at the disconnection people have between meat and the animals which they come from, especially children. Ask many children where meat comes from and you'll get the answer "the supermarket". Often people may know on the intellectual level but refuse to acknowledge it on the emotional level... They quite happily say "I could never kill an X" but will quite happily tuck into the sunday roast lamb.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Killing animals for food is one thing, but just because he was the wrong sex is murder how ever you look at it, and with other zoo's offering to take him and give him a new home, words fail me, what is wrong with these people. :mad5::mad5::mad5:


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## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

lilythepink said:


> would there have been such an uproar if instead of a cute and gorgeous baby giraffe it was a warthog?
> .


There would be more uproar from me. Just google baby warthogs and tell me those lil' suckers arent adorable!!


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## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

Happy Paws said:


> *Killing animals for food is one thing, but just because he was the wrong sex is murder *how ever you look at it, and with other zoo's offering to take him and give him a new home, words fail me, what is wrong with these people. :mad5::mad5::mad5:


It's done every day in the farming world , girls live to breed or for milk /boys die for meat.

I do think peoples up-roar over this is to do cutness factor, if it was a cow no one would say anything.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

lol. all babies are cute, its so hard to accept that babies don't even get a chance of any life.

Day old male chicks, gassed every day by the thousands and thousands cos they can't lay eggs.

Even in the wild, usually only 1 male to a group of females....unless its a large group and then maybe a couple more.

Nothing cuter than a foal, male or female, beautiful long eyelashes and great big trusting eyes.....get the same male foal to 18 months plus and its a nightmare.

the dog and cat breeders on here sometimes have litters where it just isn't right and none or only some of the litter is good enough for breeding. so neuter it and sell as a pet......its the breeder/owners choice what they do.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Pointermum said:


> It's done every day in the farming world , girls live to breed or for milk /boys die for meat.
> 
> *I do think peoples up-roar over this is to do cutness factor, if it was a cow no one would say anything.*


That maybe, but other zoos were willing to take him, and I never said he was CUTE.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Been told that there is a documentary being reasearched and aired [ not sure when] about the dark side of animals in captivity, also that this zoo in Copenhagen sells body part to the Chinese to be used in medicine, and to private collectors, 
On Wildtime website it is said that 2 Amur leopards were also euthanized due to inbreeding


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> That maybe, *but other zoos were willing to take him*, and I never said he was CUTE.


According to the Metro article:

_The giraffe was killed as the zoo is a member of the European Association of Zoos and Aquaria, which has strict rules on interbreeding.

Its membership also meant it could only sell the giraffe to a zoo or organisation that followed the same rules._

So I'm guessing the other zoos were not elegible under rules of the European Association of Zoos and Aquaria, and a private collector almost certainly wouldn't be.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Maybe it was clear to you, and maybe it was clear to me, but that doesn't mean it was clear to absolutely _everyone_ that may read it.
> 
> Some people _do_ take things literally, and don't understand 'figure of speech'.


Yes, I agree with that.

People on the autistic spectrum are likely to take something literally, and miss the underlying/hidden message that is so clear to the majority of the population.

Such are the nuances of our language and verbal/non verbal communication.

I just didn't want the OP to feel she had made an offensive post. Most people would have understood the implied message.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Jesthar said:


> According to the Metro article:
> 
> _The giraffe was killed as the zoo is a member of the European Association of Zoos and Aquaria, which has strict rules on interbreeding.
> 
> ...


I'm sure the zoos that wanted him would have known about the rules so that doesn't ring true, but they still murdered him.


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## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Summersky said:


> Yes, I agree with that.
> 
> People on the autistic spectrum are likely to take something literally, and miss the underlying/hidden message that is so clear to the majority of the population.
> 
> ...


Exactly that!

I messaged the OP last night, to make she knew that she hadn't offended me


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## emma20 (Feb 7, 2012)

MCWillow said:


> Exactly that!
> 
> I messaged the OP last night, to make she knew that she hadn't offended me


I had been messaged and it has been sorted


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Happy Paws said:


> I'm sure the zoos that wanted him would have known about the rules so that doesn't ring true, but they still murdered him.


Why doesn't it ring true?  Knowing about the rules and being signed up to follow them are two very different things...


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

Doesn't it just prove that money and paperwork mean more then the life of the animal?

The poor being was also butchered in front of ALOT of children and then fed to the lions.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

Scabbers said:


> *Doesn't it just prove that money and paperwork mean more then the life of the animal?*
> 
> The poor being was also butchered in front of ALOT of children and then fed to the lions.


I can't see how, it would be the zoos who made an offer who weren't elegible to take him under the rules. If they weren't willing to sign up the the relevant organisation in order to save him, then there's not much the owning zoo could do. Hard, cold logic, to be sure, but that's the truth of it.

As to the children, I'm willing to bet most of them watched with more than a small measure of enthusiasm and interest - I know I would have loved to have seen lions being fed when I was a kid! It's also eminently practical recycling, might as well let the meat be used for that which it would have been in the wild.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I assume the parents were happy to let them watch  but of course no child should know that any animal, including themselves, eats any other animal. I would think a lot of kids would love to see it. God help them when they start dissecting things in science. I love sharks I wasn't traumatised by dissecting a dogfish in fact it was fascinating.

But the clutching at pearls won't someone PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN routine is better of course.


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## Tails and Trails (Jan 9, 2014)

Nicky10 said:


> But the clutching at pearls won't someone PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN routine is better of course.


LOL. i can never suppress a smirk every time that one comes whenever someone complains about swearing.

why are people so dishonest about these things?
why dont they just admit its something that just upsets their own sensibilities, instead trying to cover it up with the 'it might upset the children' line or suchlike?


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

It deeply upset me about Marius yesterday and I still feel very sad he was killed the way he was, I wont be visiting anymore zoo's as I always believed a zoo was a place to admire animals. To me his death should never of been made a public event, that is just my opinion, doesn't mean I am right or wrong, the whole thing just really upset me, I haven't been so upset over something online in a long time.


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I guess it is upsetting because the world over human beings ( generally) psychologically separate 'food' from 'pets'. I eat meat but I couldn't eat my dog- and yet there is no inherent reason why it is any different to eating a pig. There's nothing wrong with that conflict IMO- I am sure we're all torn on things that aren't 100% logical all of the time. 

And I can see how the giraffe, especially as a named zoo exhibit, is in people's minds caught some way between being like a pet and being like livestock.

I found it pretty ghastly.


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

I don't know how true this is, but someone said a bolt gun through the brain wouldn't have killed Marius, he would still be alive, when they cut him up, I do hope not


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

RIP poor baby  

I think this is a disgusting practice...it was their fault he was bred and they should have realised there was a chance he could be male.

And with all of the other zoos who appear to have done similar, I am definitely no longer willing to visit zoos


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Exactly the same happens to thousands of bull calves in the dairy industry or they're shipped off to horrific conditions to be raised for veal. This is better how?


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## DKDREAM (Sep 15, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> Exactly the same happens to thousands of bull calves in the dairy industry or they're shipped off to horrific conditions to be raised for veal. This is better how?


sorry but that is a totally different issue, we are talking about a zoo animal here, not an animal soley bred for milk/food. I am not saying it is right what happens to them though, but this thread is about Marius


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

Am I right in thinking that a giraffe was killed to control the population of giraffes as they needed a female to breed and keeping him as well would mean they had too many? Other zoos offered to take him but for whatever reason it didn't happen so he was killed and used as food? I understand that watching it being cut up could be upsetting, I am not a huge fan myself despite being a meat eater. However as a child I watched my dad skin and gut pheasants and rabbits in our kitchen (until I couldn't stand the smell) It never bothered me despite having a pet rabbit although I refused to eat rabbit on those grounds. Is there really any difference? What about the game reserves in Africa? They have live zebras etc for the big cats to kill and eat. We drove past a carcass of something one day, could have been the cute baby zebra we had seen. We may not have seen it being killed but something that exists for no reason other to be eaten got eaten. Perfect example of the food chain. 

I would be a lot more annoyed if they hadn't fed it to the lions because that truly is a waste of a death. At least this way the zoo controls it's population and the carnivores get fed just the way nature intended. At the end of the day if they refused to give him away for no reason then they are just making life difficult for their future breeding programme. Yes it would be lovely if he could have gone somewhere else but for all we know a year down the line the same thing could have happened. If they couldn't give him away then they made the right choice.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

I think the breeding program of all Zoos needs to be looked at - if there is no place for an animal then it shouldn't be bred.

However I don't have any issues with children or adults choosing to watch a dissection of any animal I'm sure it was very interesting (I do object to how this animal ended up in this situation)

And I don't object to it being fed to the Lions or that people saw this - feeding time at the zoo has always been the most exciting part - but I do object to the fact that this Giraffe was seemingly bred with no thought for it's future.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think its awful what happened to this giraffe .......I dont agree with one part of it - the killing in the first place because not genetically viable and then the dissection - its barbaric IMO


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

In a way it makes sense to me that a zoo breeds it's own food. Why is it ok to feed beef, horse, lamb etc. and not Giraffe?

Personally I don't think zoos should exist in the 21st century but if they are there, I think it makes sense to breed their own meat. Saves some other poor animal being reared in a possible intensive system, transported and possibly spending time in a slaughterhouse before it dies in terror


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

I would agree with that IF this animal had been killed because it was so poorly it was in pain however it was killed and fed to the lions because it was not genetically compatible ............it was healthy but just not good for breeding purposes .............as I say barbaric for those reasons alone surely a zoo is there to preserve not kill and then make a show and tell drama out of it


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> I would agree with that IF this animal had been killed because it was so poorly it was in pain however it was killed and fed to the lions because it was not genetically compatible ............it was healthy but just not good for breeding purposes .............as I say barbaric for those reasons alone surely a zoo is there to preserve not kill and then make a show and tell drama out of it


Many healthy animals are slaughtered to feed either us or our pets, I really can't see that this giraffe is any different to that.

I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of zoo animals killed for reasons that most here wouldn't find palatable, even in UK zoos. It just hasn't been picked up by the press


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

http://www.captiveanimals.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Sad-Eyes-Empty-Lives.pdf


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

rona said:


> In a way it makes sense to me that a zoo breeds it's own food. Why is it ok to feed beef, horse, lamb etc. and not Giraffe?
> 
> Personally I don't think zoos should exist in the 21st century but if they are there, I think it makes sense to breed their own meat. Saves some other poor animal being reared in a possible intensive system, transported and possibly spending time in a slaughterhouse before it dies in terror


couldn't agree with you more.


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

rona said:


> In a way it makes sense to me that a zoo breeds it's own food. Why is it ok to feed beef, horse, lamb etc. and not Giraffe?
> 
> Personally I don't think zoos should exist in the 21st century but if they are there, I think it makes sense to breed their own meat. Saves some other poor animal being reared in a possible intensive system, transported and possibly spending time in a slaughterhouse before it dies in terror


You are right, it does make sense although they probably couldn't sustain it long term without running out of room.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Goblin said:


> Neither have I said people do. What I have pointed out is there are two sides to everything.
> 
> People need to actually find out both sides rather than simply jump on the latest internet/social media hot topic, especially with flippant comments. Jumping on the latest "craze" actually decreases the potential support for other things.


From the horses mouth - Maruis was killed because his genes were 'well represented'. Breeding animals knowing the resulting offspring will be killed even though they're perfectly healthy? Takes unethical breeding to a whole new level 



lilythepink said:


> would there have been such an uproar if instead of a cute and gorgeous baby giraffe it was a warthog?
> 
> Nothing more cut than a horse foal....and yet thousands are ripped from their mothers far too soon to end up in a slaughterhouse....and they are lucky ones if it is done in the UK.
> 
> ...


I believe fallen stock make up the bulk of their diet.



catz4m8z said:


> Doing an autopsy for the entertainment of the crowd is totally disgusting IMO...and I can see no other reason for dismantling a baby giraffe in front of paying customers.
> However it seems like it was killed humanely and if giraffes do breed prolifically in captivity then it seems like a good solution to feed it to the lions! After all its what they would be eating in the wild, also the giraffe family would probably have a much smaller survival rate for their young in the wild anyways. Its no different then feeding them sheep or cows after all...


At least in the wild Marius would have had the chance to reach adulthood.



lilythepink said:


> so once he was shot, what then? Burn all that meat?
> 
> This animal wasn't shot as a cheap source of food for a couple of days, far cheaper ways to feed zoo animals than this.
> 
> ...


If this was about a dog breeder - they'd have been hung drawn & quartered on here.



Jesthar said:


> According to the Metro article:
> 
> _The giraffe was killed as the zoo is a member of the European Association of Zoos and Aquaria, which has strict rules on interbreeding.
> 
> ...


Yorkshire Wildlife Park offered Maruis a home in their state of the art giraffe house - he would have joined a bachelor group of 4 other males - one of those males came from... Copenhagan Zoo 



rona said:


> In a way it makes sense to me that a zoo breeds it's own food. Why is it ok to feed beef, horse, lamb etc. and not Giraffe?
> 
> Personally I don't think zoos should exist in the 21st century but if they are there, I think it makes sense to breed their own meat. Saves some other poor animal being reared in a possible intensive system, transported and possibly spending time in a slaughterhouse before it dies in terror


They can & do feed fallen stock.



rona said:


> Many healthy animals are slaughtered to feed either us or our pets, I really can't see that this giraffe is any different to that.
> 
> I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of zoo animals killed for reasons that most here wouldn't find palatable, even in UK zoos. It just hasn't been picked up by the press


The only good thing that has come out of the death of Marius and the Longleat lions is they have raised public awareness of the mercenary way zoos operate.

*Very sad at what's happened to these lions and giraffe questions the whole point of some zoos. Damian Aspinall*.

.


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

rona said:


> Many healthy animals are slaughtered to feed either us or our pets, I really can't see that this giraffe is any different to that.
> 
> I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of zoo animals killed for reasons that most here wouldn't find palatable, even in UK zoos. It just hasn't been picked up by the press


Well we nor our pets eat girraffe do we ......giraffes are not bred for consumption ........in the wild that's a different story but this girraffe was not in the wild it was in a place of preservation ......the fact more animals are killed in unethical ways in zoos but not picked up by the press is the only good thing to come out of this whole sorry saga because now hopefully it will! And this will stop! Maybe marius death will not be in vain if other animals can be saved personally I don't visit zoos anyway I find them very upsetting ....


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

rona said:


> Many healthy animals are slaughtered to feed either us or our pets, I really can't see that this giraffe is any different to that.
> 
> I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of zoo animals killed for reasons that most here wouldn't find palatable, even in UK zoos. It just hasn't been picked up by the press


This is a totally different situation zoo's are not there to breed for meat. That's what farming is for. Zoos they are supposed to have breeding programmes to preserve and stop and save certain species from extinction.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

snoopydo said:


> This is a totally different situation zoo's are not there to breed for meat. That's what farming is for. Zoos they are supposed to have breeding programmes to preserve and stop and save certain species from extinction.


You reckon that's why zoos are there?
I think they are there to make money.

I can't see a problem with a zoo breeding it's own giraffes to feed it's own lions, what I don't like is zoos


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

But the purpose of a zoo is 

1) conservation 

2) Environmental Education 

3) Entertainment -(this is why I struggle with them)

How does killing a healthy girraffe and feeding to lions purposely in captivity adhere to these main policies ???


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

suzy93074 said:


> But the purpose of a zoo is
> 
> 1) conservation
> 
> ...


Well it does with your number 2


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

rona said:


> Well it does with your number 2


In the Wild yes  not in captivity - as Noush mentioned earlier fallen stock make up the bulk of lions meals...........as I have mentioned IF this girraffe had been severely ill and PTS because of this I would not have a problem with him being used for food .....but he was merely seen as SURPLUS - he could not be rehomed to another zoo because of his breeding quality ......surely if they didnt have enough room he should not have been born at all ??? irresponsible breeding ??

What if we took on this belief for all our rescue places for dogs/cats and due to having surplus killed them all and sent them off to the zoo for lions to feed on ??

We do both agree on one thing though Rona - zoos are a no no  :thumbsup:


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

Amazing i find people find it acceptable. Why not compare it to breeding dogs then?

And before you tell me its not relevant, Somebody has compared it to breeding livestock for food.

So come on. If this happened with a person breeding dogs people would be foaming at the mouth. I would of thought that breeding pets was closer to the giraffe being killed then breeding for meat personally.

As the zoo industry doesnt breed for meat but breeds to keep certain animals bloodlines from dying out SAME AS THE DOG AND CAT INDUSTRY!


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## Mr Gizmo (Jul 1, 2009)

Why did they not take up the offer from the private collector offering 500,000 euro's.
I honestly don't know so if anyone can shed some light on that.


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

Maby they ran outa money to feed the lions..........


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

A report this morning says that now children have been or being given hammers to kill otters with, at Copenhagen zoo, my god what next, this is just bloodlust


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

rona said:


> You reckon that's why zoos are there?
> I think they are there to make money.
> 
> I can't see a problem with a zoo breeding it's own giraffes to feed it's own lions, what I don't like is zoos


I was referring to your comment about you can't see anything wrong with what they did and they should breed for meat. And I never mentioned money that's another subject... I just pointed out that farming produces meat and that's not the zoos purpose.


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## snoopydo (Jan 19, 2010)

Mr Gizmo said:


> Why did they not take up the offer from the private collector offering 500,000 euro's.
> I honestly don't know so if anyone can shed some light on that.


I've no idea but there where options of rehoming and the zoo chose to kill him disgraceful and no need for him to die


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Mr Gizmo said:


> Why did they not take up the offer from the private collector offering 500,000 euro's.
> I honestly don't know so if anyone can shed some light on that.


Wow thats awful  if true and they had the option ......


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

A private collector is no guarentee of a good life. The zoo had standards to keep, and that includes where they send their stock.

A private collector could have wanted it for a private shooting safari in SA for all we know, or a circus - who knows what.



> final option is sending the giraffe to a zoo that doesn't participate in the EAZA-led breeding programme, but that could leave the giraffe or its offspring being sold into worse circumstances, such as those of a circus or private collection. It must be remembered that Marius was not from a rare subspecies.


Also, I had heard people asking about the snip:



> Yes and no. Until recently, either would have required sedation, which is a relatively high-risk operation with giraffes. They are liable to break their necks when they fall while sedated.


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

What report was that about the otters? Have you a link?


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Giraffe dead, now Danish children 'forced to maim otters with hammers' | The Evening Harold

Just found this! not sure of the validity though to be fair


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> Giraffe dead, now Danish children forced to maim otters with hammers | The Evening Harold
> 
> Just found this! not sure of the validity though to be fair


I can find no other source of the story other then that. So i highly doubt its true


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

when I first saw this article, I thought maybe the male was surplus to requirements and if he had been female, he would have been kept.

It turns out this animal was inbred, so neither male or female would have been wanted for breeding.

According to a news report, the Copenhagen zoo was only allowed to sell or swap animals with other zoos who had the same breeding and ethics policy as its own. The 2 zoos that offered to take the giraffe did not have these policies.


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

lilythepink said:


> when I first saw this article, I thought maybe the male was surplus to requirements and if he had been female, he would have been kept.
> 
> It turns out this animal was inbred, so neither male or female would have been wanted for breeding.
> 
> According to a news report, the Copenhagen zoo was only allowed to sell or swap animals with other zoos who had the same breeding and ethics policy as its own. The 2 zoos that offered to take the giraffe did not have these policies.


Which is exactly what i ment about putting paperwork and rules above the life of the animal. Their life has no value.....


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## suzy93074 (Sep 3, 2008)

Im sure there were more places offered ?? one being Yorkshire Wildlife Park who have a state of the art Giraffe House - they put an offer in to take him but were ignored -

They wanted the publicity and spectacle of dissecting this poor young animal - simple as that!

Copenhagen Zoo kills 'surplus' young giraffe Marius despite online petition - Europe - World - The Independent

And why was he inbred ????? if they do not use inbred for breeding purposes ???


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

I suggest you go to Copenhagen zoo website and read why they do not give contraception to the giraffes.....

It is on there


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## Mr Gizmo (Jul 1, 2009)

With this being such a high profile case a private collector would be under the publics gaze to see how it's treated so would not have done the collector any favours to mistreat him.
From the little that is known the collector was doing it with the animals best interests at heart.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Mr Gizmo said:


> With this being such a high profile case a private collector would be under the publics gaze to see how it's treated so would not have done the collector any favours to mistreat him.
> From the little that is known the collector was doing it with the animals best interests at heart.


But a private collector is not regulated, there would be no guarentee on his future or what happened to him thereafter. He could be traded, sold, or used for whatever purpose and kept in whatever condition. They are not audited, they are not bound by any rules or laws or standards. It is hugely naive to think someone with 500,000 Euros in the bank spare is going to be a saint in disguise.

Lets face it, if he had been sold it would not have been international news and given less than a yr focus wouldnt have been on them. It would have been HIGHLY irresponsible to sell to a private collector - like a rescue allowing their animals to go to unchecked homes if you like to consider it that way.


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

Plenty of zoos also offered. not just private collectors.


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

There are private keepers who are as good as zoos but who can guarantee he would have gone to one of those. If the only other option was zoos under the same scheme with the same policies then his fate would have been the same surely. I don't see anything wrong with feeding him to the big cats, in fact I think it was more respectful to the body than just incineration.

I really doubt the otter story somehow.


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

suzy93074 said:


> Im sure there were more places offered ?? one being Yorkshire Wildlife Park who have a state of the art Giraffe House - they put an offer in to take him but were ignored -
> 
> They wanted the publicity and spectacle of dissecting this poor young animal - simple as that!
> 
> ...


well they didn't get much good publicity about this case, did they? If I was wanting to visit a zoo....which I don't cos I know this and much worse goes on behind closed doors....Copenhagen Zoo would be bottom of the pile and I am sure plenty famillies with young children who do go to zoos will think twice at least about this one.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Nicky10 said:


> There are private keepers who are as good as zoos but who can guarantee he would have gone to one of those. If the only other option was zoos under the same scheme with the same policies then his fate would have been the same surely. I don't see anything wrong with feeding him to the big cats, in fact I think it was more respectful to the body than just incineration.
> 
> I really doubt the otter story somehow.


Yorkshire wildlife Park already have a male giraffe from Copenhagan zoo in their batchlor herd - they offered to take Maruis - so there was nothing stopping them sending Maruis. YWP is clearly one of the more ethical zoos . They have also rescued a lot of lions ,kept in appaling conditions, from a zoo in Romania. Maruis would have been guaranteed a lovely home there

/


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## lilythepink (Jul 24, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> Yorkshire wildlife Park already have a male giraffe from Copenhagan zoo in their batchlor herd - they offered to take Maruis - so there was nothing stopping them sending Maruis. YWP is clearly one of the more ethical zoos . They have also rescued a lot of lions ,kept in appaling conditions, from a zoo in Romania. Maruis would have been guaranteed a lovely home there
> 
> /


so what is the real story behind all this then? The zoo says one thing but obviously there is much evidence to say they lie......

I don't think zoos on the whole are much good......really don't understand why all this had to happen. It doesn't make economical sense if anything else? A live giraffe has got to be worth more money than one that has been killed and fed to something else?.nothing adds up


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

lilythepink said:


> so what is the real story behind all this then? The zoo says one thing but obviously there is much evidence to say they lie......
> 
> I don't think zoos on the whole are much good......really don't understand why all this had to happen. It doesn't make economical sense if anything else? A live giraffe has got to be worth more money than one that has been killed and fed to something else?.nothing adds up


Particularly odd as the Yorkshire park are picking up a Giraffe from Copenhagen in just 2 weeks time

The Yorkshire park does seem to be more on par with Monkey world than zoos.


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## lennythecloud (Aug 5, 2011)

A second zoo in Denmark today strongly indicated that they may be culling out one of their male Giraffes (who also happens to be called Marius) to make way for a female... Second giraffe named Marius at risk of being put down in Denmark | World news | theguardian.com

Whoever's in charge of public relations at the European association of zoo and aquaria has a lot on their plate at the moment...


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## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

noushka05 said:


> Yorkshire wildlife Park already have a male giraffe from Copenhagan zoo in their batchlor herd - they offered to take Maruis - so there was nothing stopping them sending Maruis. YWP is clearly one of the more ethical zoos . They have also rescued a lot of lions ,kept in appaling conditions, from a zoo in Romania. Maruis would have been guaranteed a lovely home there
> 
> /


If that was an option he should have been sent there rather than euthanised. I never said I liked that they euthanised him just that I understood why.


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## PawPetDirectory (Dec 19, 2013)

I passed this over to a pet company so they can have their employees, handlers and customers sign it. This is extremely unacceptable!


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

I do not have an issue with kids watching an animal being butchered at all. I would have done so myself as a child and liked it!

IF and that is the word! IF he was killed because he was ill!

I would of kicked the guy butchering him if I new that he had been killed for no apparent reason. 

What exactly did they tell the kids? The reason behind his death?


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

http://www.zoo.dk/BesogZoo/Nyhedsarkiv/2014/Februar/Why Copenhagen Zoo euthanized a giraffe.aspx

Opinion: Killing of Marius the Giraffe Exposes Myths About Zoos


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## Scabbers (Jul 26, 2013)

Thats about the size of it..........


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