# Bakers dog feed agaonst others!



## wayne alexander (Aug 23, 2011)

Some say that Bakers complete is full of e numbers and additives and can make your dog hyper. 
Some say load of nonsense and the "better foods" are just money makers. They are similar and much more expensive.
Any suggestions from you folks?


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I find some of the better foods (skinners) are a good bit cheaper!


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

wayne alexander said:


> Any suggestions from you folks?


Yes, read the ingredients.


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## Kivasmum (Aug 4, 2011)

after reading lots of ingredients on lots of foods before deciding on one for my pup, one thing i do know is that bakers is far from similair to the better quality ones  just look at the colour of it, even looks like smarties


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## LolaBoo (May 31, 2011)

Bascially its full of additives and colourings to make your dog eat it 

There are way better brands of dog foods out there

And nearlly all of the good brands dont sell in supermarkets or advertise on tv 

The adverts are a gimick to make you think there a great brand for your dog

As others have said read the ingridents


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

Bakers Complete Adult with Lamb, Rice and Vegetables

Cereals (min. 4% Rice in the Green and Orange Kernels), Meat and Animal Derivatives (min. 4% Fresh Meat in the Soft Moist Kernel, min. 4% Lamb in the Natural and Brown Kernels), Vegetable Protein Extracts, Oils and Fats, Derivatives of Vegetable Origin (0.5% Beet Pulp in the Natural and Brown Kernels), Various Sugars, Minerals, Vegetables (min. 4% Vegetables in the Green and Orange Kernels). with Antioxidants, Coloured with and Preserved with EC Additives.

Questions you should ask yourself

1 - If each kernel contains only 4% of the listed ingredient, what is the other 96%?

2 - If only the Soft Moist Kernel, Natural and Brown Kernels contain any meat products, what percentage of the whole food are these kernels. If the food is split evenly between the five listed types, then the food only contains 7.2% meat products (12% of 60%)

3 - What exactly are 'Derivatives of animal/vegetable origin? (I know the answer to this but it's disgusting, look it up for yourself)

4 - Why does the food have sugar added?

5 - Why does the food have colourings added, specifically orange and green, when it is know that dogs are unable to perceive or distinguish these colours?

6 - Why is the recommended daily feeding amount higher than other brands?

7 - Taking into account recommended feeding quantities, why is it so expensive compared to foods with similar ingredients?

It is my honest opinion that Bakers is a masterpiece in marketing, nothing more.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Incestuous Pet Food Regulation Allows Consumers to Feed their Pets Ring Dings and Krispy Kremes

Contains some interesting bits and pieces although it is american based. I suspect it is similar in the UK. Love the 100% Complete claim requirements.



> American Association of Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) permits a pet food manufacturer to claim that its product is 100% complete provided that the manufacturer has complied with AAFCOs feeding trial protocols or nutrient profiles.[206] AAFCOs feeding trials last 6 months and are conducted, at a minimum, on a group of 8 animals. Yet, AAFCO holds this isolated and short-lived study sufficient proof that the tested product can sustain all similar-species for the duration of the animals life.


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

Jasper's Bloke said:


> Bakers Complete Adult with Lamb, Rice and Vegetables
> 
> Cereals (min. 4% Rice in the Green and Orange Kernels), Meat and Animal Derivatives (min. 4% Fresh Meat in the Soft Moist Kernel, min. 4% Lamb in the Natural and Brown Kernels), Vegetable Protein Extracts, Oils and Fats, Derivatives of Vegetable Origin (0.5% Beet Pulp in the Natural and Brown Kernels), Various Sugars, Minerals, Vegetables (min. 4% Vegetables in the Green and Orange Kernels). with Antioxidants, Coloured with and Preserved with EC Additives.
> 
> ...


You forgot about the ec additives which will more than likely to be bha and bht both of which are thought to cause cancer.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Independent review of bakers here

Dog Food Reviews - Bakers Complete Beef & Country Vegetables - Powered by ReviewPost

I think the first line says it all.

Rule of thumb, if its from a super market, it's crap.

It's also more expensive, work out the price to feed per day to see the real cost, you'll see bakers, pedigree etc are stupid expensive for the ingredients.


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## Staffybull (Jul 23, 2010)

wayne alexander said:


> Some say that Bakers complete is full of e numbers and additives and can make your dog hyper.
> Some say load of nonsense and the "better foods" are just money makers. They are similar and much more expensive.
> Any suggestions from you folks?


TBH its the worst ever dry food IMHO! Should be banned from sale!!!

And why are you confused?All you have to do is read and research the nightmare ingredients of bakers ,then compare to a better dry food eg- Duck & Potato 15kg
Nutritional Analysis - Fish4Dogs Online Shop - Natural Food & Treats for Dogs & Cats
Fishmongers Adult Dog Food with Salmon and Potato 10kg by Pets at Home | Pets at Home there are loads of other good foods,and they are not moneymakers,but i do think the likes of bakers etc are!
Most,if not all supermarket foods are crap!


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

wayne alexander said:


> Some say that Bakers complete is full of e numbers and additives and can make your dog hyper.
> Some say load of nonsense and the "better foods" are just money makers. They are similar and much more expensive.
> Any suggestions from you folks?


You're not allowed to store it near cattle feed in case it gets into the human food chain.

And read this:

http://www.petforums.co.uk/2103605-post30.html

I wish to God a rep from Bakers would come on here and see how we hate it! Why the heck is it sold still? So many people now know how awful it is.


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

cinammontoast said:


> So many people now know how awful it is.


Indeed... its forums like this that help point people in the right direction

I feels sorry for the gullible people that see the adverts and assume there a big brand so must be a good food and dont know any better

I recon theres more meat content in one of Wilsons neatly formed small pipes .....sorry to be crude...but 4% meat ...downright wrong

Apart from the downright bad nutrition it provides id hate to imagine my springer eating e numbers:yikes: id have no house left


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

it`s one brand of food that should be banned, that`s my opinion! i`m sick of telling oh`s family how bad it is yet his mom has offered us several boxes of it as 'it`s such a good food she doesn`t wanna throw it out and the other dog can`t eat it'  i`m not sure which part of 'i do not want to be peeling my dogs from the ceiling all night' she doesn`t quite understand. they then moan about how the ckcs is grossly obese - well apart from the very little walking he`s fed the guideline amount of bakers on top of that, if i`m being honest i`ve yet to meet a dog who eats bakers and isn`t overweight 

as the others have said you can get way better food for your money. i feed mine on skinners duck and rice and a 15kg bag lasts about 4 weeks here with both my springer and labrador and only costs me £21.99. for 15kg of bakers it`s roughly the same price BUT if you look at the guideline feeding amounts the daily amount is actually double that of skinners therefore you`re actually paying double cause the bakers will only last half as long....and you`ll have to peel your dog off the ceiling to boot 

obviously it`s up to each individual as to which food they feed but i`d definitely recommend avoiding bakers and pedigree at all costs, they`re not cheaper and if you`ve ever seen 'it`s me or the dog' when she`s telling them about the junk that`s in their dog`s food causing the bad behaviour? 9/10 times it`s bakers they`re feeding but she`s not allowed to say on tv


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

Kinski said:


> You forgot about the ec additives which will more than likely to be bha and bht both of which are thought to cause cancer.


BHA is also in royal canin....


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

stigDarley said:


> BHA is also in royal canin....


royal canine is also a pretty crappy food too in my opinion, they just done really well by marketing it through vets  i wouldn`t say it`s as bad as bakers but it`s definitely not something i`d consider feeding my dogs, especially not at that ridiculous price when you see you can get much better foods!


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## Kinski (Apr 4, 2009)

stigDarley said:


> BHA is also in royal canin....


It's in lots of dog food and like Leah84 it's not a food I would feed my dogs. I honestly think these crappy dog food companies should be done under the trades description act for saying their food is fantastic and the best thing you could ever feed your dog.


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

If you want to have a laugh...have a look on there website at the interactive "whats in the kibble"

Bakers Complete: Puppy Food and Dog Health Care

Surely anyone with half a brain could see summat aint right with kibble the colour of the rainbow


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

hyper Springer said:


> If you want to have a laugh...have a look on there website at the interactive "whats in the kibble"
> 
> Bakers Complete: Puppy Food and Dog Health Care
> 
> Surely anyone with half a brain could see summat aint right with kibble the colour of the rainbow


I'm speechless!!! What the h**l is all that about?? Patronising lot of rubbish if ever I saw it!


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

it won`t let me into the kibble corner, my poor boys will have to find another way to taste the rainbow :lol: apparently though the colors make it better for the dog...haven`t you heard about that? we`re all mean cause we feed boring brown food hmy:


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

hyper Springer said:


> If you want to have a laugh...have a look on there website at the interactive "whats in the kibble"
> 
> Bakers Complete: Puppy Food and Dog Health Care
> 
> Surely anyone with half a brain could see summat aint right with kibble the colour of the rainbow


That's what I don't get - why on earth doesn't the colour of the kibble get alarm bells ringing for people. I've seen packets of crayons with less different colours :cursing:

Anyone seen the adverts on the telly recently for free samples of their 'Meaty Meals' food? I'm sure there will be a load of people trailing their dog on it, and then switching them to it after seeing how they love the sugary crap


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## sianrees1979 (Feb 27, 2009)

i think bakers is a load of c**p and would never feed it to dai (i doubt he'd eat it even if i did) he was on eukanaba (sp) dry and butchers wet when i bought him i then changed him onto james wellbeloved dry and naturediet wet, now he is on burns alert dry (which he loves) and either naturediet, burns wet, fish4dogs salmon mousse, arden grange, lily's kitchen almo nature or another good quality wet.


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

SixStar said:


> That's what I don't get - why on earth doesn't the colour of the kibble get alarm bells ringing for people. I've seen packets of crayons with less different colours :cursing:


The colours are there purely to make it look better to humans, the more colourful human food is, the more it is perceived as 'healthy'. It is widely accepted that dogs, while not actually colour blind, do see a limited range of colour and that oranges and greens appear to be no different to them to blue or red. If Bakers contained blue and red bits, I am sure more people would question it. The colourings are just another subtle marketing ploy designed to convince people it is something it is not.


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

Lets have a competition to find the "shocking" food 

Ill go with this for starters(forgive the pun)

This "supreme" range from Tresco looks intresting...even states it contains Lobes...but not what creature the lobes have come from:001_tt2:

Tesco Pate With Turkey And Chicken 300G - Groceries - Tesco Groceries

Meat and Minerals ,Various Sugars ,Coloured With EC Additives ,Preserved With EC Additives ,Meat & Animal Derivatives contains ,Petfood - Lobes ,Petfood - Heart ,Petfood - Kidney ,Turkey Offal ,Minerals contains ,Calcium Carbonate ,Sodium Polyphosphate ,Various Sugars contains ,Xylose ,Glycine ,Coloured With EC Additives contains ,Titanium Dioxide ,Preserved With EC Additives contains ,Sodium Nitrite

Beat that for quality

Edit just clocked the Titanium....my watch strap is made of Titanium ...very strong and lite weight... WTF is it doing in food ?


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

hyper Springer said:


> Lets have a competition to find the "shocking" food
> 
> Ill go with this for starters(forgive the pun)
> 
> ...


Lobes are part of the lung, kidney and liver. Offal is great for dogs.

To be honest, although that food is obviously pretty crap - at least meat is first ingredient - ok, so whether calling it 'meat' is actually true, at least it's not cereals. As far as shocking food goes, I think Bakers takes some beating, closely followed by Wagg and Chappie dry. Oh, and Pedro Pedro Pet Foods - meat & cereal flavour, yum!


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

SixStar said:


> Lobes are part of the lung, kidney and liver. Offal is great for dogs.
> 
> To be honest, although that food is obviously pretty crap - at least meat is first ingredient - ok, so whether calling it 'meat' is actually true, at least it's not cereals. As far as shocking food goes, I think Bakers takes some beating, closely followed by Wagg and Chappie dry. Oh, and Pedro Pedro Pet Foods - meat & cereal flavour, yum!


I thought it was ear... lobes


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

The health benefits of Titanium Oxidehmy:

Titanium dioxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Titanium dioxide dust, when inhaled, has been classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as an IARC Group 2B carcinogen possibly carcinogenic to humans.[42] The findings of the IARC are based on the discovery that high concentrations of pigment-grade (powdered) and ultrafine titanium dioxide dust caused respiratory tract cancer in rats exposed by inhalation and intratracheal instillation.[43] The series of biological events or steps that produce the rat lung cancers (e.g. particle deposition, impaired lung clearance, cell injury, fibrosis, mutations and ultimately cancer) have also been seen in people working in dusty environments. Therefore, the observations of cancer in animals were considered, by IARC, as relevant to people doing jobs with exposures to titanium dioxide dust. For example, titanium dioxide production workers may be exposed to high dust concentrations during packing, milling, site cleaning and maintenance, if there are insufficient dust control measures in place. However, the human studies conducted so far do not suggest an association between occupational exposure to titanium dioxide and an increased risk for cancer. The safety of the use of nano-particle sized titanium dioxide, which can penetrate the body and reach internal organs, has been criticized.[44] Studies have also found that titanium dioxide nanoparticles cause genetic damage in mice.[45]


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## dvnbiker (Dec 2, 2009)

or how about alpha - advertised as : Alpha Worker Maintenance is a complete and balanced diet containing freshly cooked meat along with a range of vitamins and minerals which provides a low energy wholesome food for dogs that are less active. All the fresh meat and vegetables are carefully cooked and blended in order to ensure that digestion is optimised. Alpha Worker Maintenance is also ideal for owners who wish to add extra meat or fish protein for more active, working and racing conditions

19% Protein

Natural ingredients
Highest quality white meat

Extruded nugget
Scientifically formulated for health and vitality

Easy to digest and highly palatable
Each meal is balanced and nutritionally complete

VAT FREE in the United Kingdom

ingredients: Wheat, Wheatfeed, Beef Meat Meal, Maize, Fishmeal, Poultry Fat. Minerals, Vitamins & Preservatives. NO artificial colourants or flavours.


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## maryrose1977 (Aug 7, 2011)

Wow i am shocked. We changed Pennys food to something from Pets at home that is suppose to be good quality but i have been giving her small bite mixer to bulk it out for her.

I am going to go through my cupboards tomorrow and check all the pets foods.

i wont let my kids eat poop so my pets wont either


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## Hawks1980 (Aug 21, 2011)

Lyceum said:


> Independent review of bakers here
> 
> Dog Food Reviews - Bakers Complete Beef & Country Vegetables - Powered by ReviewPost
> 
> ...


I've recently posted about feeding Mishka 'Tesco Complete' Dry food. This is not on the review site but after reading the ingredients list for Bakers on that site, it exactly matches the Tesco food, so I suspect the food that is in a Bakers packet is the same as in the Supermarket branded ones too.

Shocking that I've been feeding my dog this crap for 9 years hmy:


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

SixStar said:


> Lobes are part of the lung, kidney and liver. Offal is great for dogs.
> 
> To be honest, although that food is obviously pretty crap - at least meat is first ingredient - ok, so whether calling it 'meat' is actually true, at least it's not cereals. As far as shocking food goes, I think Bakers takes some beating, closely followed by Wagg and Chappie dry. Oh, and Pedro Pedro Pet Foods - meat & cereal flavour, yum!


'Contains a Unique Beef Flavour'
Wonder what's unique about it?
Our local supermarket sells this, can't find an ingredients list for them but it's very cheap so I'm guessing it ain't much of a banquet


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

The thing is, most of this rubbish isn't even cheap - you can buy Naturediet in bulk more reasonably.....


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

simplysardonic said:


> 'Contains a Unique Beef Flavour'
> Wonder what's unique about it?
> Our local supermarket sells this, can't find an ingredients list for them but it's very cheap so I'm guessing it ain't much of a banquet


ingredients:

Meat and animal derivatives(beef min. 4% liver min. 4%, cereals, minerals, sugars.
Typical analysis. Protein 7%, Oil 3% Fibre 0.5% Ash 2.5%, Moisture 80%.
Vitamins. Vitamin A : 2,000 iu/kg, Vitamin D3 : 250 iu/kg, Vitamin E : 10mg/kg.
The Vitamin content is guaranteed until the Best Before Date on the can end.

is this a new food? i`ve only recently noticed it too


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## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Tex has been around donkeys years, and clearly the ingredients haven't changed for the better in all those years!

How about these? Sainsburys Basic ''meaty chunks in jelly''










Meat and Animal Derivatives (Min. 35%), Cereals, Derivatives of Vegetable Origin, Vitamins and Minerals, Various Sugars.

Not even any named flavour meat. Noticed it today, was only two packs left so clearly someone is buying it. They had a dry food too - £1.50 for 2.5kg, no ingredient listed on the website.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Leah84 said:


> ingredients:
> 
> Meat and animal derivatives(beef min. 4% liver min. 4%, cereals, minerals, sugars.
> Typical analysis. Protein 7%, Oil 3% Fibre 0.5% Ash 2.5%, Moisture 80%.
> ...


It's been sold in our local supermarket as far back as I can remember
Well done for finding that list, I couldn't lol


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## Hawks1980 (Aug 21, 2011)

SixStar said:


> Tex has been around donkeys years, and clearly the ingredients haven't changed for the better in all those years!
> 
> How about these? Sainsburys Basic ''meaty chunks in jelly''
> 
> ...


On the plus side, at least the first ingredient isn't Cereal


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## WhiteRabbit (Jun 22, 2011)

Put it this way, no _good_, caring, well educated dog owner would ever feed their dog Bakers if they have taken the two seconds of time it takes to read the ingredients.

Would you let your child live on a diet of Smarties, Jelly Tots and Custard Cremes? Because that's basically what it is, in dog "food" form.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

WhiteRabbit said:


> Put it this way, no _good_, caring, well educated dog owner would ever feed their dog Bakers if they have taken the two seconds of time it takes to read the ingredients.
> 
> Would you let your child live on a diet of Smarties, Jelly Tots and Custard Cremes? Because that's basically what it is, in dog "food" form.


As much as it truly pains me to do so, I will have to disagree.

One of my cousins feeds bakers, wagg, pedigree etc. I've told her time and time again about food, she just rolls her eyes. But Cassie is very well cared for, very loved, exercised, socialised, chipped, spayed etc. A very happy, well adjusted dog.

And while yes, it does grate on me that she wont change her diet, she thinks what she feeds is fine and will carry on doing so.

Plus, saying all you have to do is read the ingredients also doesn't sit well with me, before I started looking into food I wouldn't have had a jar of glue that what was written on the back of a bag of bakers, was in fact a terrible diet for a dog. I'd have assumed, being as they are a massive company selling pet food that they knew what was good and wouldn't put it in.

Obviously I know better now, and know they are a money making machine and couldn't care less what goes into the dog. But unless you have some knowledge of a dogs dietary needs looking at the ingredients wont put you any the wiser.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

My personaly favourite in the crap food stakes is chappie dry..



> Cereals (minimum 4% wholegrain); Derivitives of vegetable origin; meat and animal derivitives (minimum 4% chicken); oils and fats; minerals. With antioxidants butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT) and butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA). With preservative potassium sorbate.


And they change for that?


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## WhiteRabbit (Jun 22, 2011)

Lyceum said:


> As much as it truly pains me to do so, I will have to disagree.
> 
> One of my cousins feeds bakers, wagg, pedigree etc. I've told her time and time again about food, she just rolls her eyes. But Cassie is very well cared for, very loved, exercised, socialised, chipped, spayed etc. A very happy, well adjusted dog.
> 
> ...


As I said, _educated_ pet owners. If you've told her time and time again how horrible (That's putting it lightly) Bakers is and she still won't change it, that doesn't say much for her, I'm afraid. Not meaning to be offensive, but I hate ignorance.

Also, my mum has been raising dogs for 30 years+, and although I grew up with it, when I moved out and got my own dogs, I realised how little I actually knew about _everything_. I had no clue what to feed my puppy, how often to feed her, what brands to buy, nothing. I knew nothing about dogs dietary needs in the slightest, but it didn't take much for me to find a forum to talk to other dog owners, read a few books, ask around, to find out what was what.

It's common sense, to be honest. If you're not willing to go the "extra mile" (Translation; To do the basic things to ensure your dog is healthy and has a good life and ISN'T jacked up on Bakers), then you should think twice about getting a dog. But of course that's my opinion


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## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

hyper Springer said:


> Apart from the downright bad nutrition it provides id hate to imagine my springer eating e numbers:yikes: id have no house left


Some one who will remain nameless and unforgiven, gave my Dalmatian Bakers instead of his own food. Thinking I was just too precious about my babies. She soon learnt the truth. A red spotty dalmatian high on additives is not a pretty sight!!


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

Lyceum said:


> My personaly favourite in the crap food stakes is chappie dry..
> 
> And they change for that?


chappie dry is fantastic! what a clever way for pedigree to market their dried food under a well known and trusted name  dried chappie is essentially pedigree dried shoved in a different bag. stupidly i bought a bag of it too based on the name until i read the ingredients properly but how many people would just continue with it assuming it was similar to their wet food?

eta - Cereals (min. 4% Wheat), Meat and Animal Derivatives (min. 4% Beef In The Beef Kibble), Oils and Fats,Vegetable Protein Extracts, Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin (min. 3% Dried Beet Pulp), Minerals, Vegetables (min. 4% Carrots In The Carrot Kibble, min. 4% Beans In The Green Kibble).

the ingredients for pedigree dry - virtually identical only they have colorings added!


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## kirstymac (Jul 5, 2011)

_I have been feeding my pup bakers or months..... until i spoke to the vet yesterday he suggested james welbeloved. Is it any good. has to be better than bakers by the sound of it _


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

Lyceum said:


> As much as it truly pains me to do so, I will have to disagree.
> 
> One of my cousins feeds bakers, wagg, pedigree etc. I've told her time and time again about food, she just rolls her eyes. But Cassie is very well cared for, very loved, exercised, socialised, chipped, spayed etc. A very happy, well adjusted dog.
> 
> ...


I an afraid that I have to agree with this also. If you don't know any better, then you must assume that the best selling brand is the best quality. Obviously this is not the case but the fact is that company's like Bakers prey on this ignorance, and even encourage it, in order to shift product.

My sister was the one who first clued me in to the benefits of a healthy diet after problems with her elderly rescue dog, but after several years even she has gone back to the big B because its 'convenient'.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2011)

kirstymac said:


> _I have been feeding my pup bakers or months..... until i spoke to the vet yesterday he suggested james welbeloved. Is it any good. has to be better than bakers by the sound of it _


James Wellbeloved is fine - not the best but a good middle-of-the-road food.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

WhiteRabbit said:


> As I said, _educated_ pet owners. If you've told her time and time again how horrible (That's putting it lightly) Bakers is and she still won't change it, that doesn't say much for her, I'm afraid. Not meaning to be offensive, but I hate ignorance.
> 
> Also, my mum has been raising dogs for 30 years+, and although I grew up with it, when I moved out and got my own dogs, I realised how little I actually knew about _everything_. I had no clue what to feed my puppy, how often to feed her, what brands to buy, nothing. I knew nothing about dogs dietary needs in the slightest, but it didn't take much for me to find a forum to talk to other dog owners, read a few books, ask around, to find out what was what.
> 
> It's common sense, to be honest. If you're not willing to go the "extra mile" (Translation; To do the basic things to ensure your dog is healthy and has a good life and ISN'T jacked up on Bakers), then you should think twice about getting a dog. But of course that's my opinion


It may be common sense for you, not for everyone. She sees her dog as being healthy and happy, she can grab bakers when doing the shopping and the dog likes it. Her dog is happy, very much loved and cared for so I'm not about to slag any dog owner simply because they feed a bad food.

When you don't know anything about canine nutrition, who are you going to believe, a cousin who up until a few years back fed any old crap, and seems to be on a 'healthy dog diet' kick, or the food brands you've fed every dog you've had since you were a kid? My dogs don't seem 'more' healthy than her dog, nor does she seem hyper etc.

My mum's had dogs for 50 years, two of them, both lived to 18 and 20 respectively being fed nothing but crap. I don't advocate it, I an 100% against it and will tell anyone that'll listens. But as I said, I'm not going to label a pet owner bad because they choose to feed bakers or pedigree etc.

If you'd used a certain brand for years (not just dog food) and I came along and told you it was crap, it might make you think for a second, of you had internet access (which she doesn't) maybe you'd look it up, but you'd not jump because one person said so. Because for you it's tried, tested and trusted.

It's the same with dog food. Most people, rightly or wrongly stick with what they know and trust. It's the same with everything, people buy pc's from pc world/curries, they use andrex loo roll, the buy fairy and bold, eat a certain brand of a food they like etc. Are they good and value for money? Hell no, what they are is great at marketing and making people believe they are the best in their field.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Luckily just caught the guy at work about to start feeding his pup bakers 'but he loves it' he said
I explained about the e numbers and likened to mcdonalds, have sent the link to the dog food review on bakers. Hopefully I have caught him in time for it, he is a good person, wanting to feed his dog well and bakers was recommended to him by a fellow dog owner/lover. I just hope with that further push towards educating himself he will find a good food for his dog.


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## Staffybull (Jul 23, 2010)

To everyone who reads this-DO NOT feed bakers!!!

E320 - has been found to be tumour-producing when fed to rats. In human studies it has been linked with urticaria, angioedema and asthma

E321 - banned for use in food in Japan, Romania, Sweden, and Australia. The US has barred it from being ...used in infant foods. So bad McDonalds have voluntarily eliminated it from their products.

E310 - Banned from children's foods in the US because it is thought to cause the blood disorder methemoglobinemia

E172 - Banned in Germany

E132 - Can cause skin sensitivity, a rash similar to nettle rash, itching, nausea, high blood pressure and breathing problems. One of the colours that the Hyperactive Children's Support Group recommends be eliminated from the diet of children. Banned in Norway.

E102 - TARTRAZINE - A trial on 76 children diagnosed as hyperactive, showed that tartrazine provoked abnormal behaviour patterns in 79% of them

E110 - Sunset Yellow has been found to damage kidneys and adrenals when fed to laboratory rats. It has also been found to be carcinogenic when fed to animals

E104 - One of the colours that the Hyperactive Children's Support Group recommends be eliminated from the diet of children. Banned in Australia, Japan, Norway and the United States.

E171 - Banned in Germany

Tell family,friends and neighbours-this is as bad as dog food gets!!!


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## Paganman (Jul 29, 2011)

julesmcc said:


> And nearlly all of the good brands dont sell in supermarkets or advertise on tv


Why is this so?

Always baffled me that has.

It must be to do with the makers not wanting to deal on price because supermarkets sell good quality human foods as well as the cheap e number stuff 

Is there a price fixing thing going on with the suppliers and stockists I wonder.


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Paganman said:


> Why is this so?
> 
> Always baffled me that has.
> 
> ...


Probably because they don't have the millions to spend on advertising like bakers etc, they spend it on food instead and rely on word of mouth and a little advertising.


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## Paganman (Jul 29, 2011)

Lyceum said:


> Probably because they don't have the millions to spend on advertising like bakers etc, they spend it on food instead and rely on word of mouth and a little advertising.


But get it in the supermarkets and they don't need to advertise.

The thing is when a supplier gets in with say stresscos, the buyers etc look at the business for profits and loss etc.

When they work out that the bag of food they want to sell us at £30/40 only cost say £6 to produce and deliver, stresscos wil say on ya bike.

I have look at the price of this food,worked out the say rice content by weight and compared that to a bag of rice (raw granted) and it don't add up.


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## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Really loving this Bakers-bashing thread! It should be made a sticky!

My mum thought it was a great food because it was so cheap  and I think the colourful packaging, availability and mass advertising led her to believe it was a decent food. It took me months of convincing to get her to look for a better food. So she did. And chose Wagg  I know a lot of people here do feed Wagg and there is some amount of controversy over it but personally i'd rather not risk it! A few bags of Wagg later, and I decided to tell her that I would be buying the food from now on! They're now on Fish4Dogs and doing really well! Not much change in Ruby but Tiger has certainly calmed down a bit and looks amazing! He's got his lovely shapely waist and tummy back now! He looks far more 'toned' whereas on Bakers, he resembled a little barrel!


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

Paganman said:


> But get it in the supermarkets and they don't need to advertise.
> 
> The thing is when a supplier gets in with say stresscos, the buyers etc look at the business for profits and loss etc.
> 
> ...


So the supermarkets get it in, but shoppers haven't seen it on TV or anything, advertising how blooming fantastic it is for your pet, so they walk right past it and pick up a bag of bakers. Because the adverts say it's perfectly balanced and will give you a super dog, and their vet said it's fine, and everyone knows vets are the ONLY people around when it comes to animal advice. They've seen bakers, it's been a staple for as long as they can remember, and that new fangled food cost £10 more per bag, why the hell would they buy that crap? Besides, the woman at 42 has always had dogs and she swears by bakers. They don't look at ingredients, they don't look at price to feed per day and see it's actually £10 cheaper. They go with the brand they know, the brand they've been recommended by friends. And this the good stuff doesn't sell, and the supermarket stops stocking it.

Sadly that's the world we live in, unless a company like Arden Grange or Barking heads, fish4dogs etc invest millions in advertising campaigns, get the name on the TV and show the ingredients etc, preferably via a dog in a cute doggy outfit flying through the air. They will never be as well known or well sold as the supermarket crap.

I know some supermarkets stock things having changed the name to their own brand, like asda with Bozita (top life chicken dinner) and Sainsburyswith encore (applaws). But I don't know of any dog food brands, and they tend to stick a premium price on them, so again, they get walked past.


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

Paganman said:


> Why is this so?
> 
> Always baffled me that has.
> 
> ...


In the case of Bakers, this again comes down to their very clever marketing men, I have no idea what they pay these guys but it isn't enough.

Sat next to Bakers on virtually every supermarket shelf is Wagg, which is to all intents and purposes a very similar food to Bakers, except it is much cheaper. Now if you were to ask someone who feeds Bakers why they don't feed Wagg instead they would probably tell you that its cheap crap or that Bakers is better quality. Why? Perception, quality costs more, Bakers costs more, ergo Bakers is better quality. It really is a masterpiece of marketing.


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## henry (Mar 16, 2009)

kirstymac said:


> _I have been feeding my pup bakers or months..... until i spoke to the vet yesterday he suggested james welbeloved. Is it any good. has to be better than bakers by the sound of it _


Most definitely! A massive improvement - ditch the Bakers and go for the JWB!


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Lyceum said:


> As much as it truly pains me to do so, I will have to disagree.
> 
> One of my cousins feeds bakers, wagg, pedigree etc. I've told her time and time again about food, she just rolls her eyes. But Cassie is very well cared for, very loved, exercised, socialised, chipped, spayed etc. A very happy, well adjusted dog.
> 
> ...


I agree here, i wouldn't have known about good food and bad food if i hadn't been going on forums for the last few years. I just think as said here that people think if its manufactured by a big company such as Pedigree that the food is ok, people need to be enlightened but these big multi national companies have the monopoly unfortunately. Its quite frightening really 

Money also comes into the equation, , some people just see thefood is cheap and thats their priority.


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

Paganman said:


> Why is this so?
> 
> Always baffled me that has.
> 
> ...


Ocado sell Lillys Kitchen(where i get mine from) and i think they also sell Arden Grange


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## WhiteRabbit (Jun 22, 2011)

Bellaboo1 said:


> Money also comes into the equation, , some people just see thefood is cheap and thats their priority.


My vet tried the "any dog food HAS to have all the nutrients that dogs need before they go on the shelves, so just get the cheapest you can and have her on that" line. I went _mad_. Cheap, regardless of money issues, isn't an option. Of course, the cheaper we can get good, quality food, the better, but we're raw feeding Purdy at the moment and that's not always cheap... But it's cheaper than Bakers!

And at least I know what's going in my dog.


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

WhiteRabbit said:


> My vet tried the "any dog food HAS to have all the nutrients that dogs need before they go on the shelves, so just get the cheapest you can and have her on that" line. I went _mad_. Cheap, regardless of money issues, isn't an option. Of course, the cheaper we can get good, quality food, the better, but we're raw feeding Purdy at the moment and that's not always cheap... But it's cheaper than Bakers!
> 
> And at least I know what's going in my dog.


I don't understand some vets/peoples attitudes towards nutrition, stands to reason if a dog or a human is not getting the correct food/nutrients then their health will suffer, not rocket science is it !

Apparently vets are not taught about nutrition, not sure if thats true but i'd have thought that all vets should be taught about basic nutrition. Nutrition or lack of it can be the root cause of illness.

Most of us have limited budgets so of course money is a factor but i always try to give my dogs the best i can afford, i think its a false economy to give rubbish food because in the long run its causes more problems that you end up paying for eventually anyway through vets fees


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## hyper Springer (Jan 8, 2010)

Bellaboo1 said:


> I don't understand some vets/peoples attitudes towards nutrition, stands to reason if a dog or a human is not getting the correct food/nutrients then their health will suffer, not rocket science is it !
> 
> Apparently vets are not taught about nutrition, not sure if thats true but i'd have thought that all vets should be taught about basic nutrition. Nutrition or lack of it can be the root cause of illness.
> 
> Most of us have limited budgets so of course money is a factor but i always try to give my dogs the best i can afford, i think its a false economy to give rubbish food because in the long run its causes more problems that you end up paying for eventually anyway through vets fees


So if a vet says its ok to feed rubbish food maybe its a cunning plan to ensure your pet will likely be ill and thus makes them money.... genius


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## Bellaboo1 (Aug 10, 2011)

hyper Springer said:


> So if a vet says its ok to feed rubbish food maybe its a cunning plan to ensure your pet will likely be ill and thus makes them money.... genius


Makes you wonder doesn't it ? a bit like the whole "do i vaccinate yearly or not" debate !


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

Paganman said:


> But get it in the supermarkets and they don't need to advertise.
> 
> The thing is when a supplier gets in with say stresscos, the buyers etc look at the business for profits and loss etc.
> 
> ...


it`s all good and well getting it in the supermarkets BUT what happens once it`s there? people will go for the big name brands they`ve heard of not some new food that is clearly crap as it`s not all sparkly and colorful and plastered over tv. the other point being, supermarkets will want a much larger cut of the profit from the sale of each bag than say an independent stockist or online store would take therefore losing the manufacturer more money. let`s be fair, a lot of the good dog foods are much cheaper than the ones you see in supermarkets - ever wondered why? i`m guessing it`s probably to do hugely with the lack of advertising costs and they`ve cut out the huge fees by not supplying it through supermarkets.

companies like bakers and pedigree will always have the monopoly as they can afford to, it`s as simple as that and until more people start realising the junk that`s inside them or they`re banned then i can`t see that changing much (


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## Sparkle (Jan 28, 2010)

Yuck yuck yuck what about the big green poos bakers produce??? Gross

My eldest came to me on royal canin (yuck - lots of people love it.... Can't understand it) and had blood pouring out her backside!!! £200 later I found out she was allergic to anything and everything and she has been on raw ever since... 

If you want to buy from a supermarket.... Go into the fresh food aisle pick up some chicken wings, lamb heart, kidney & liver and voila cheap supermarket food which is very healthy for your dog


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## Jasper's Bloke (Oct 30, 2009)

I have just received my ebay bargain , a £55 Elk Leather Hunter dog lead that cost me £6.99 and was pleasantly surprised to find a free gift in the box in the form of a Hunter Tasty Tooth Bone. How's this for an ingredients list.

_Composition; Natural vegetable starches, rawhide granules, soya lecithin, sodium caseinate, glutin, potassium sorbate, assorted flavourings. Ingredients; Crude Protein 19.6%, moisture 11.4%, crude fat 4%, crude ash 2%, crude fibre 1.5% - This supplementary feed consists of products containing protein made from mammalian tissue. These may not be fed to ruminant animals_

Mammalian tissue? That's probably about as vague as you can get, it could be anything from fresh organic duck breast to chimpanzee toenail clippings!


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## teddyboylove (Jul 31, 2010)

Got so fed up with reading every single ingredient on everything and not knowing what to get for the best, I have now put my dog on Natural Instinct raw. Great service, great food and no more expensive than most of the rubbish. Just human grade meat and veg.


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## wayne alexander (Aug 23, 2011)

Sounds like a done deal. Thanks for the great advice.
Have recently purchased some Advanced Nutrition from pets at home that seems much better but both dogs do not like it. Any suggestions on a good healthy food that does not cost the earth?
Thanks


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## Starfish (Jul 26, 2011)

It's a shame really for the first time pet owners, or those who simply are unsure and overwhelmed by a saturated market all shouting for the consumer's attention. My pup is the first dog I've ever had away from 'family pets', and I admit that I did a good few months research in to everything and anything in regards to owning my own dog; breed, training, foods etc etc, and even now I'll come across something utterly alien and I have to just take a step back and look it up or ask friends/vet/you guys 

I suppose people could argue that it's responsible to do the groundwork necessary to ensure your dog is getting the best care possible, but perhaps not everyone has the means to do so, or just genuinely believes that they _are_ doing the best for their dog? Unless you know where to look for support and advice I guess it can be pretty daunting out there, and the advertising companies are only too willing to take you in and give you a solution.

For what it's worth, my lad is on AG and I've had no issues with it so far and he really does go at his meals with gusto. Hopefully AG is as good as I think it is or I'm going to be lost and out on a limb again


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

wayne alexander said:


> Sounds like a done deal. Thanks for the great advice.
> Have recently purchased some Advanced Nutrition from pets at home that seems much better but both dogs do not like it. Any suggestions on a good healthy food that does not cost the earth?
> Thanks


have you looked at the skinners field and trial? either the duck and rice or salmon and rice are both good foods (although i`d steer clear of their other foods tbh). they`re marketed at working dogs but i, along with many others on here and other forums, use the food without any adverse effects on the dogs - in fact quite the opposite i`ve found it`s been really good for them. i use the duck & rice and pay £22 for the 15kg bag which lasts my springer and lab for a month so definitely works out cheap to feed, plus it`s hypoallergenic so good for my boy`s icky tum. if you go onto their website and email them asking for local suppliers they`ll be able to help you out (obviously you can order online also, i think ebay is actually the cheapest place to buy online) and they`ll send you some free samples if you request them to see how your dogs go


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Staffybull said:


> TBH its the worst ever dry food IMHO! Should be banned from sale!!!
> 
> And why are you confused?All you have to do is read and research the nightmare ingredients of bakers ,then compare to a better dry food eg- Duck & Potato 15kg
> Nutritional Analysis - Fish4Dogs Online Shop - Natural Food & Treats for Dogs & Cats
> ...


Thank you for these links.


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## sianrees1979 (Feb 27, 2009)

i use to feed james wellbeloved but dai slowly went off it (the funny bugger) now he gets burns alert dry which he loves to eat i had a 15kg bag from Burns Premium Holistic Dog & Cat Food - PetShopBowl they also do some other great foods, i also feed the german shepherd on csj which he loves CSJ dog food for working dogs - CSJK9 Ltd.


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## maryrose1977 (Aug 7, 2011)

Although i wont ever feed my dog bones, when i was doing the beef heart for the fish i decided to try it on my Penny Pancake. Was so funny cos she wouldnt eat it. She did however leave a piece on the stairs for me to stand on YUCK and left another piece on the living room floor.

She just wasnt impressed and neither were the cats.

When my kittens go for their checkup im going to have a major talk with my vet about all my pets foods and see what he says. He always gives me decent advice.

But it is becoming quite stressful for us as a family. Feeding my pets used to be a pleasure now its a pain in the backside because alot of the stuff we try the pets on they refuse to eat. My OH hates wasting money and i can actually see his point now. 

To the point he refused point blank to allow me to order big sacks of "healthy dog food" from Zooplus because if they dont eat it whats the point.


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## Leah84 (Jun 22, 2009)

maryrose1977 said:


> Although i wont ever feed my dog bones, when i was doing the beef heart for the fish i decided to try it on my Penny Pancake. Was so funny cos she wouldnt eat it. She did however leave a piece on the stairs for me to stand on YUCK and left another piece on the living room floor.
> 
> She just wasnt impressed and neither were the cats.
> 
> ...


be careful of the advice the vet will give, 9/10 times they`ll recommend royal canin or hills science plan. both foods in my opinion are completely junk but all vets seem to recommend them - i think the food companies pay them to do so? not sure but the vet isn`t someone i`d go to for dietary advice, my vet is great but he does recommend the brands above much like every other i`ve come across


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## Sparkle (Jan 28, 2010)

Each to their own but why won't you feed them bones when it's the most natural diet for our carnivores??

No offence but you're making your animals picky... Put their food down if they don't eat it within 15 mins pick it up and they get nothing no treats nothing until the next meal... Again do the same. No healthy dog will starve themselves once they get the idea eat what you're given or go hungry they will eat their food.

That way you won't be wasting money trying different stuff



maryrose1977 said:


> Although i wont ever feed my dog bones, when i was doing the beef heart for the fish i decided to try it on my Penny Pancake. Was so funny cos she wouldnt eat it. She did however leave a piece on the stairs for me to stand on YUCK and left another piece on the living room floor.
> 
> She just wasnt impressed and neither were the cats.
> 
> ...


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

So would you all say Skinners duck and Rice is the best alternative "cheap" food?
Ive found it on Vetuk for £19.59 (ish memory like a sieve).
Its not for Jack but i know my mums struggleing atm and i know shes very tempted at times to go for the "specials" at Asda rather that go to Jollyes.
If it is think im gonna order her a bag tomorrow and if it comes to it i can afford 20 quid a month rather that Sunny eat shite. 
Tho i would imagine being better quality for one Elkhound it may last longer 
Plus he shares Nature diet with Jack when hes there for a play date :lol:


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

XxZoexX said:


> So would you all say Skinners duck and Rice is the best alternative "cheap" food?
> Ive found it on Vetuk for £19.59 (ish memory like a sieve).
> Its not for Jack but i know my mums struggleing atm and i know shes very tempted at times to go for the "specials" at Asda rather that go to Jollyes.
> If it is think im gonna order her a bag tomorrow and if it comes to it i can afford 20 quid a month rather that Sunny eat shite.
> ...


yes i think that is the general concensus 
thats nice of you to do that for your mum and her dog 
is the delivery free?


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Nothing i wouldnt do for my mam and that darn doggy brother of mine :lol:
For orders over £19 on food its free yes :thumbup: Fantastic!!


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## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

XxZoexX said:


> Nothing i wouldnt do for my mam and that darn doggy brother of mine :lol:
> For orders over £19 on food its free yes :thumbup: Fantastic!!


I've yet to see a better budget food than Skinners duck or salmon. Before Novak developed a grain allergy I'd order two bags and get almost three months worth of food delivered for under £40. Blooming marvellous lol.

The duck and rice has the exact same ingredients as burns duck and rice and yet it's £30 cheaper.


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## XxZoexX (Sep 8, 2010)

Fab, that'll be ordered tomorrow.. Thanks


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## Martyn1965 (Jun 7, 2011)

Hi 

If supermarket food is crap, what would you recommend to feed your dog on ? I am looking and getting confused with all the different types of food. I want advice.


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Martyn1965 said:


> ... getting confused with all the different types of food. I want advice.


I would check out Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost If you take a look at the site shown and the reviews you should get an idea of what to look for. One of the primary things to do is read any ingredient list carefully and try to understand what it actually means.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Martyn1965 said:


> Hi
> 
> If supermarket food is crap, what would you recommend to feed your dog on ? I am looking and getting confused with all the different types of food. I want advice.


Raw: read the sticky.

If you prefer dry: Orijen, Barking Heads, Acana, James Wellbeloved, Skinners, want more? Go on Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble and find out what is in the food before you buy it.


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

Just got back from an evening out and met someone who was warning me all about Bakers and its E numbers and carcinogenic preservatives, knowing that I had a puppy. They'd seen it posted recently on Horse and Hound forums, which I think someone from here has done. They have just changed their dogs' diet to James Wellbeloved, as they had been feeding Bakers and were horrified to learn what's in it. hmy:

Result.


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## Staffybull (Jul 23, 2010)

wayne alexander said:


> Sounds like a done deal. Thanks for the great advice.
> Have recently purchased some Advanced Nutrition from pets at home that seems much better but both dogs do not like it. Any suggestions on a good healthy food that does not cost the earth?
> Thanks


If they do not like the AN you can get a refund or an exchange!

No 1 has asked you yet,what you are feeding your dogs,i hope its not bakers!

If they refuse AN,what are they eating?


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## Staffybull (Jul 23, 2010)

Elles said:


> Just got back from an evening out and met someone who was warning me all about Bakers and its E numbers and carcinogenic preservatives, knowing that I had a puppy. They'd seen it posted recently on Horse and Hound forums, which I think someone from here has done. They have just changed their dogs' diet to James Wellbeloved, as they had been feeding Bakers and were horrified to learn what's in it. hmy:
> 
> Result.


It may have been me!

Any switch from Bakers is great news,always remember to tell EVERYONE how bad it is!

Im sure you will


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Elles said:


> Just got back from an evening out and met someone who was warning me all about Bakers and its E numbers and carcinogenic preservatives, knowing that I had a puppy. They'd seen it posted recently on Horse and Hound forums, which I think someone from here has done. They have just changed their dogs' diet to James Wellbeloved, as they had been feeding Bakers and were horrified to learn what's in it. hmy:
> 
> Result.


well thats just lovely to hear


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## stigDarley (Jan 2, 2010)

McKenzie said:


> James Wellbeloved is fine - not the best but a good middle-of-the-road food.


Personally i find it over priced and the puppy protein is 30% which is a tad to high for my liking...... I prefer skinners... or burgess puppy as an alternative...


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Elles said:


> Just got back from an evening out and met someone who was warning me all about Bakers and its E numbers and carcinogenic preservatives, knowing that I had a puppy. They'd seen it posted recently on Horse and Hound forums, which I think someone from here has done. They have just changed their dogs' diet to James Wellbeloved, as they had been feeding Bakers and were horrified to learn what's in it. hmy:
> 
> Result.





Staffybull said:


> It may have been me!
> 
> Any switch from Bakers is great news,always remember to tell EVERYONE how bad it is!
> 
> Im sure you will


Probably me: here's my recent thread (I'm a bit fierce about it!). I nicked the list of e-numbers from here. 
Bakers - Horse and Hound Forums


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## Staffybull (Jul 23, 2010)

cinammontoast said:


> Probably me: here's my recent thread (I'm a bit fierce about it!). I nicked the list of e-numbers from here.
> Bakers - Horse and Hound Forums


LOL.thats where i stole the list from


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

I reckon we should start a campaign!


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## Elles (Aug 15, 2011)

My friend hasn't posted in the thread, so I expect there's a few people who are also changing food, but not saying anything.


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## Staffybull (Jul 23, 2010)

cinammontoast said:


> I reckon we should start a campaign!


I think the campaign has all ready started!

Keep this thread open for a while,the more people that read this the better

Get this nasty so called food,away from all dogs!!


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## Martyn1965 (Jun 7, 2011)

I have been trying to buy good food and have asked owners loads of questions. I spoke to a guy with 5 show spaniels yesterday and bakers is all he used. One of his dogs was 15 years of age and the rest all looked happy and healthy. Obviously some foods are better than others, but what is real value for money.


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