# A terrible thing has happened



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

Next door to me there is an Ambull and a Yorkie. They hate my dogs and vice versa, they are always trying to get at each other through the fence. I let mine out this morning and unbeknown to me my side gate was open so they were going at each other through the side fence. I rushed out and called mine back in straight away and secured my gate. My neighbour and I joked about what a pain they are and were laughing. I heard her call Scrappy, the Yorkie, a couple of times and thought nothing of it, got ready and went out.

I've just got back from a lovely walk with Phoolf and Kes and my neighbour has been to see me. The Yorkie didn't go home this morning so she came and looked for him and he was lying up the side of my house behind my bin injured. He had obviously got through the fence into my garden this morning and most likely Bizkit had a fight with him. Scrappy had a broken leg and multiple puncture wounds & he was so badly injured that they had to have him PTS because the vet said he was unlikely to recover at his age  He was 16 

I have said how sorry I am and she kept saying it's not my fault because her dog had come into my garden and I'd told her loads of times he could get through the fence.

I feel terrible. Run free at rainbow bridge Scrappy.


----------



## BlueBeagle (Oct 27, 2011)

How awful! But it is not your fault as Scrappy's owner said but I can understand the guilt you feel.

Run free Scrappy xx


----------



## IndysMamma (Jan 15, 2009)

oh no poor Scrappy

try not to blame yourself - small dogs are *always* at risk from other dogs just to size disadvantage and like you and your neighbours thought this morning - handbags and scraps were normal and usually consequence free - you retrieved your dogs as soon as you possibly could...

Run free Scrappy and my deepest sympathies to you and Scrappy's mum - it's a *horrible* accident


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

How awful  Do you really think it was Bizkit? It could be that something else got to him before yours were out  Can't imagine how crappy you must feel.


----------



## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

That is awful but as your neighbour said you didnt know and he had got into your property.

Regardless of right and wrong theres only one real loser and thats Scrappy RIP ...


----------



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

How awful! Why couldn't she be bothered to make sure he couldn't get through  poor little dog


----------



## Goldstar (Nov 12, 2011)

How awful  

R.I.P Scrappy x 

Not your fault at all, just a horrible accident.


----------



## archiesmum (Aug 28, 2010)

How terrible, don't blame yourself it wasn't your fault it was nobody's fault really just a terrible accident.

Hugs 

Val xx

Run free Scrappy


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

I am so sorry, that's just what you didn't need at the moment isn't it 

Poor old Scrappy, that must've been a horrific way to go. It isn't your fault though, these things are accidents! Who is likely to have left your gate open? Could it have blown open or been left open by the postman or something?

I'm glad the owner hasn't taken it out on you though, it must be devastating for them but like I say, accidents happen and this was a most unfortunate one


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

Phoolf said:


> How awful  Do you really think it was Bizkit? It could be that something else got to him before yours were out  Can't imagine how crappy you must feel.


Yes I'm sure it was Bizkit, Scrappy would run at him and attack in that fearless terrier way and Bizkit hated Scrappy. We both let our dogs out at the same moment this morning and Scrappy was fine when she let him out. Bizkit had grabbed Scrappy and ragged him 2 summers ago when he got into our garden but I was there to break it up, so I have no doubts as to what has happened


----------



## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

What a sad story 

As others have said though, you are not to blame.


----------



## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

What an horrible thing to have happened for everyone .
Run free Scrappy.xx


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry  Run free Scrappy.


----------



## dobermummy (Apr 4, 2009)

Dont blame yourself, it was an accident. 

Run free Scrappy


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

PoisonGirl said:


> How awful! Why couldn't she be bothered to make sure he couldn't get through  poor little dog


Whenever I told her he could get through she blocked the hole in the fence up. We have a lot of foxes and they make new gaps to squeeze through all the time  She has plans in spring to pull the hedge and old fence out and put a new one in.

Sorry if it seemed she was at fault in the OP because she isn't and it's just one of those terrible things. I was very upset when I wrote it


----------



## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Please don't blame yourself. You're not to blame. You know where I am if you want to chat x


----------



## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

metaldog said:


> Whenever I told her he could get through she blocked the hole in the fence up. We have a lot of foxes and they make new gaps to squeeze through all the time  She has plans in spring to pull the hedge and old fence out and put a new one in.
> 
> Sorry if it seemed she was at fault in the OP because she isn't and it's just one of those terrible things. I was very upset when I wrote it


Oh I see


----------



## Pointermum (Jul 2, 2010)

I'm soo sorry for all involved  

RIP Scrappy


----------



## Nellybelly (Jul 20, 2009)

i'm so sorry to read this. Really is terrible, but I will echo what others have said that it is not your fault.

RIP Scrappy


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

What a horrendous thing to happen; run free Scrappy .


----------



## missRV (Nov 9, 2012)

How horrible  but your dog was just protecting it's territory. Natural behaviour!


----------



## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm so sorry, but it wasn't your fault it was accident.

Run Free Scrappy


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

What a horrific end to a life.

I dont really understand why there was any gate between the two even if she wouldn't block it. If there was ever any doubt with my dog attacking a neighbours I'd block it up myself.


----------



## Wyrd (Jul 27, 2010)

Horrible accident 

RIP scrappy


----------



## sskmick (Feb 4, 2008)

It sounds like everyone knew there was a potential risk of the dogs meeting each other and that the boundary needed securing, it is one of those jobs that will be get sorted later, unfortunately your neighbour will be kicking himself/herself for not securing the boundary fence sooner.

It definitely is not your fault, even if the fence belongs to you, your neighbours dog was in your garden. I know no matter what we say you will still beat yourself up, try not to - it was an unfortunate accident.


RIP little one.


----------



## AmberNero (Jun 6, 2010)

what an awful accident  run free, Scrappy


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> What a horrific end to a life.
> 
> *I dont really understand why there was any gate between the two even if she wouldn't block it. *If there was ever any doubt with my dog attacking a neighbours I'd block it up myself.


The sentence I have bolded doesn't make sense to me please clarify what you mean, are you saying it was my fault


----------



## lozzibear (Feb 5, 2010)

So sorry  poor Scrappy... 

You and the owner must be devastated, but it is good that the owner isn't blaming you. So many owners would take the grief and anger out on the other dogs owner, regardless of whose fault it is, so it must be a relief she is seeing things sensibly... and that it was just a tragic accident.


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Although not your responsibility, I'm sure it will play on your mind for months to come. 

The owner I'm sure will have nightmares of finding her dog like that.

Just an awful awful accident


----------



## Hannahmourneevans (Dec 16, 2012)

Oh poor Scrappy. Please dont feel any blame hun it wasnt your fault at all.


----------



## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Sounds like just a dreadful accident. Lot of 'but ifs' in hindsight, but you can't prevent everything bad happening. Just horrible outcome for both of you.


----------



## 3dogs2cats (Aug 15, 2012)

This is so sad, Poor Scrappy. 

I feel incredibly sorry for you beacuse I know how I would be feeling right now.
Hugs for you.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

metaldog said:


> The sentence I have bolded doesn't make sense to me please clarify what you mean, are you saying it was my fault


I'm saying if there was such a bad incident before why was there ever any chance of them getting together again? Why wasn't the gate blocked so there was never a chance of it. If she wouldn't do it to prevent the dog getting in I would have done it myself.

I don't know whose fault it is, maybe both are to blame.


----------



## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

Oh gosh, what an awful and sad thing 
Poor Scrappy to go like that, and for the owners to have to find their dog in that state, must have been awful 


But, it is in no way you're fault, nor your dogs. Just a very unfortunate accident 

I'm sure it won't make you feel any better though, but please try to see that there was nothing you could have done xx


----------



## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

emmaviolet said:


> I'm saying if there was such a bad incident before why was there ever any chance of them getting together again? Why wasn't the gate blocked so there was never a chance of it. If she wouldn't do it to prevent the dog getting in I would have done it myself.
> 
> I don't know whose fault it is, maybe both are to blame.


As already mentioned - The neighbour would block the fence if ever a hole was discovered. The OP has already said that the gate was left open by someone, and I am sure it was an accident by whoever did it.

As is the whole situation, there is no point pointing the finger at anyone, it has happened and now the neighbour and metaldog have to get through this tough time. No point of 'what ifs' now.


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Indeed, a terrible thing, but don't blame yourself in any way. Poor little Scrappy.


----------



## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

R.I.P. Scrappy.

So sorry for you Metaldog,this is the last thing you need right now.


----------



## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

metaldog said:


> Yes I'm sure it was Bizkit, *Scrappy would run at him and attack in that fearless terrier way and Bizkit hated Scrappy.* We both let our dogs out at the same moment this morning and Scrappy was fine when she let him out. Bizkit had grabbed Scrappy and ragged him 2 summers ago when he got into our garden but I was there to break it up, so I have no doubts as to what has happened


How awful for you all. RIP little Scrappy!

The bit that I have highlighted is so so true. Terriers can be so fearless and don't consider their size. Bruno is exactly the same and at times its scary how brazen he is.

Sadly, this really is just one of those terrible tragedies that nobody can be blamed for.


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

emmaviolet said:


> I'm saying if there was such a bad incident before why was there ever any chance of them getting together again? Why wasn't the gate blocked so there was never a chance of it. If she wouldn't do it to prevent the dog getting in I would have done it myself.
> 
> I don't know whose fault it is, maybe both are to blame.


Wow you're a compassionate human being aren't you 

The gate leads to another part of my garden....not their garden. I live at the bottom of a close and my neighbour's back garden backs onto the side of my front garden. I only put my dogs in my back garden and there are two barriers between my back garden and the front garden and another gate between my front garden and the street. I put in the back gate so my dogs don't go into the garden at the side of my house or the front garden because they run up and down the fence barking at the other dogs. Whenever Scrappy has gotten into my front garden, I have told the neighbours and she has blocked his escape routes.

There really is nothing more either of us could have done and your posts are making me feel worse than I do already, and I feel terrible! So I would be very grateful if you stopped being judgemental about things you actually have no clue about and stop making assumptions that are way off the mark


----------



## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

Metaldog you mustn't blame yourself it was an unfortunate accident.


----------



## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

emmaviolet said:


> I'm saying if there was such a bad incident before why was there ever any chance of them getting together again? Why wasn't the gate blocked so there was never a chance of it. If she wouldn't do it to prevent the dog getting in I would have done it myself.
> 
> I don't know whose fault it is, maybe both are to blame.


Hindsight is a wonderful thing .Metaldog had done everything she could to make her garden secure.


----------



## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

I do have compassion actually.

I'll leave it there, I'm not wanting you to feel worse.


----------



## lisa0307 (Aug 25, 2009)

Awul, just awful for all concerned.
R.I.P. Dearest Scrappy x


----------



## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh gosh how terrible, poor little Scrappy, definitely don't blame yourself, terriers will be terriers and lurcher will do what lurchers do, what a horrible accident to have to happen though.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

What a horrible thing to happen. It was an accident, and if anyone wants to analyse any accident they are nearly always avoidable - in hindsight!
Even though it was no ones fault both you and Scrappy's owner are going to feel dreadful about the whole thing and keep wondering if there was something you could have done differently.

Incidentally Metaldog - we had a near accident this morning. It was avoidable but at the same time it was no ones fault. Out driving a pony with Toffee running behind on a lead as usual when my husband noticed her lead was stuck round the axle. As he pulled it free it got wound up in the brakes, they made a dreadful noise and pony took off. Luckily I stopped him very quickly and he stood like a rock while my husband sorted out the lead. Now, it could have ended very very differently - but we would never do anything if we analysed what could go wrong. You have to live your life with some risk and just take sensible precautions which it sounds like is what you did.


----------



## dandogman (Dec 19, 2011)

What a sad story 


It is nice (for want of a better word) to see your neighbor taking responsibility for once rather than trying to pin the blame on you which is what a lot of people would do. Good on her I say. It must be hard for her seeing as though her dog is no longer in this world.


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2013)

this is not in anyway meant to offend and esp not offend metal dog who I really feel for,
however I can't help think that if the situation was reversed there would be an outcry on this forum.
ie. if a forum member posted that their dog went into next doors garden and next doors dog killed their dog. . . . well I can just picture the replies!


Metaldog I can't even begin to imagine what you are going through but at the end of the day your pet dog killed another dog, and in a pretty ferocious manner by the sounds of it, I am sure you will be taking MAJOR precautions so your dog can never harm again . Ie. on lead at ALL TIMES EVERYWHERE YOU GO, garden completely secure even it is someone else's fencing etc. you cannot risk letting your dog in the garden off leash until it is COMPLETELY secure.


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

shelly11 said:


> this is not in anyway meant to offend and esp not offend metal dog who I really feel for,
> however I can't help think that if the situation was reversed there would be an outcry on this forum.
> ie. if a forum member posted that their dog went into next doors garden and next doors dog killed their dog. . . . well I can just picture the replies!
> 
> Metaldog I can't even begin to imagine what you are going through but at the end of the day your pet dog killed another dog, and in a pretty ferocious manner by the sounds of it, I am sure you will be taking MAJOR precautions so your dog can never harm again . Ie. on lead at ALL TIMES EVERYWHERE YOU GO, garden completely secure even it is someone else's fencing etc. you cannot risk letting your dog in the garden off leash until it is COMPLETELY secure.


I don't really think so to be honest. A dog should be allowed off leash, unmuzzled in its own back yard as far as I'm concerned, no question about it. Anyone or anything entering your garden is taking the risk and shouldn't be on the property, unless of course your dog is human aggressive, in which case cannot be trusted.


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2013)

Oh no metaldog, I'm SO sorry that you've been through this. Big hugs. Run free Scrappy.



shelly11 said:


> this is not in anyway meant to offend and esp not offend metal dog who I really feel for,
> however I can't help think that if the situation was reversed there would be an outcry on this forum.
> ie. if a forum member posted that their dog went into next doors garden and next doors dog killed their dog. . . . well I can just picture the replies!
> 
> Metaldog I can't even begin to imagine what you are going through but at the end of the day your pet dog killed another dog, and in a pretty ferocious manner by the sounds of it, I am sure you will be taking MAJOR precautions so your dog can never harm again . Ie. on lead at ALL TIMES EVERYWHERE YOU GO, garden completely secure even it is someone else's fencing etc. you cannot risk letting your dog in the garden off leash until it is COMPLETELY secure.


Sorry but I don't really agree.


----------



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

My dads dog a staffy was always muzzled on its own garden as she could not be trusted sadly,this was not a shared garden either but the iron gate meant she could see the public. Better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

shelly11 said:


> this is not in anyway meant to offend and esp not offend metal dog who I really feel for,
> however I can't help think that if the situation was reversed there would be an outcry on this forum.
> ie. if a forum member posted that their dog went into next doors garden and next doors dog killed their dog. . . . well I can just picture the replies!
> 
> ...


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2013)

Run Free Scrappy. 
A terrible accident, please don't blame yourself metaldog.


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2013)

cloversmum said:


> shelly11 said:
> 
> 
> > this is not in anyway meant to offend and esp not offend metal dog who I really feel for,
> ...


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

shelly11 said:


> shelly11 said:
> 
> 
> > I said unless the garden is COMPLETELY secure! I am not advocating for the dog to be on leash in its own garden for goodness sake, but if there are any gaps in the fencing or ANY chance that another dog could squeeze in then for metal dogs own sake then the risks are just too high. But I stand by that the dog should always be on leash when out of its own garden.
> ...


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I'll also add shelly that whilst you may think your points are valid, this incident is still very fresh and as I'm sure we can imagine she must be feeling awful, perhaps criticism would be more responsibly dispensed at a later date when people aren't so emotional.


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2013)

metaldog said:


> Yes I'm sure it was Bizkit, Scrappy would run at him and attack in that fearless terrier way and Bizkit hated Scrappy. We both let our dogs out at the same moment this morning and Scrappy was fine when she let him out. Bizkit had grabbed Scrappy and ragged him 2 summers ago when he got into our garden but I was there to break it up, so I have no doubts as to what has happened


Have to say metal dog how honest of you, and how very refreshing to see someone not trying to put blame elsewhere. I feel for you I really do, what a terrible situation for you, your dog, your neighbour and of course Scrappy. my earlier comment was not really aimed at you persay , and I certainly am not out to rub salt into your wounds.
Just a horrible horrible thing all round


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2013)

Phoolf said:


> I'll also add shelly that whilst you may think your points are valid, this incident is still very fresh and as I'm sure we can imagine she must be feeling awful, perhaps criticism would be more responsibly dispensed at a later date when people aren't so emotional.


There was no criticism at metal dog intended at all . None.


----------



## labradrk (Dec 10, 2012)

shelly11 said:


> this is not in anyway meant to offend and esp not offend metal dog who I really feel for,
> however I can't help think that if the situation was reversed there would be an outcry on this forum.
> ie. if a forum member posted that their dog went into next doors garden and next doors dog killed their dog. . . . well I can just picture the replies!
> 
> Metaldog I can't even begin to imagine what you are going through but at the end of the day your pet dog killed another dog, and in a pretty ferocious manner by the sounds of it, I am sure you will be taking MAJOR precautions so your dog can never harm again . Ie. on lead at ALL TIMES EVERYWHERE YOU GO, garden completely secure even it is someone else's fencing etc. you cannot risk letting your dog in the garden off leash until it is COMPLETELY secure.


Your post lacks understanding.

Plenty of dogs would act in a non favorable way in the event of a strange dog entering their property. This is especially true if the dog was one they already did not get on with, as was the case here. Unfortunately due to the size difference with the dogs involved, obviously the Yorkie came off far worse.

It is tragic for all concerned but it was a horrible accident, simple as.


----------



## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Oh Metaldog I am so sorry this has happened, you and your neighbour must be feeling devastated. 
An accident is an accident, I bet everyone has had near misses with something at sometime and thought 'phew that was lucky, it could've been worse'.
RIP Scrappy, run free x


----------



## foxyrockmeister (May 30, 2011)

So sorry Metaldog, what a horrible situation for all concerned. Easy to say but please don't blame yourself, your dog was secured in his own back garden and reacted in a way that most lurchers would if a small furry came on to his territory.

I feel very sad for your neighbour and for you but it's refreshing to hear that she is not laying the blame on you and seeing it for what it was - a tragic accident.

Whenever any accidents happen it's easy for captain hindsight to leap into action but they can't all be avoided unless we all muzzle, leash, secure and wrap our dogs in bubble wrap all the time.

Run free Scrappy x


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

shelly11 said:


> this is not in anyway meant to offend and esp not offend metal dog who I really feel for,
> however I can't help think that if the situation was reversed there would be an outcry on this forum.
> ie. if a forum member posted that their dog went into next doors garden and next doors dog killed their dog. . . . well I can just picture the replies!
> 
> Metaldog I can't even begin to imagine what you are going through but at the end of the day your pet dog killed another dog, and in a pretty ferocious manner by the sounds of it, I am sure you will be taking MAJOR precautions so your dog can never harm again . Ie. on lead at ALL TIMES EVERYWHERE YOU GO, garden completely secure even it is someone else's fencing etc. you cannot risk letting your dog in the garden off leash until it is COMPLETELY secure.


Lets get the facts straight. My dog Bizkit DID NOT kill Scrappy, he was euthanised by a vet. They had a fight and Scrappy was injured and his injuries were not life threatening, a decision was made between the vet and my neighbour that due to Scrappy's advanced age the kindest thing would be to put him to sleep.

I will not be leashing Bizkit nor muzzling him on walks. I keep him under control, he's got great recall and this incident happened on his own territory with a dog that has been very aggressive to him before and has been gunning for him through a fence for three years. The dog invaded my garden and attacked my dog and my dog fought back. Sadly because Scrappy is so much smaller he came off the worst.

I went outside immediately I heard the noise, I recalled Bizkit and closed the gate. Unfortunately I did not see Scrappy and I had no idea he had invaded my garden because Bizkit recalled into the house immediately.



shelly11 said:


> I said unless the garden is COMPLETELY secure! I am not advocating for the dog to be on leash in its own garden for goodness sake, but if there are any gaps in the fencing or ANY chance that another dog could squeeze in then for metal dogs own sake then the risks are just too high. But I stand by that the dog should always be on leash when out of its own garden.


I am not responsible for other people dogs invading my garden. My garden is secure enough that my 6kg jack Russell nor my lurcher who thinks she's a show jumper can escape. If another dog digs under the fence to attack my dog then it's really not my fault



shelly11 said:


> Have to say metal dog how honest of you, and how very refreshing to see someone not trying to put blame elsewhere. I feel for you I really do, what a terrible situation for you, your dog, your neighbour and of course Scrappy. my earlier comment was not really aimed at you persay , and I certainly am not out to rub salt into your wounds.
> Just a horrible horrible thing all round





shelly11 said:


> There was no criticism at metal dog intended at all . None.


Nice of you to say. However, as your comments were aimed at me directly because you used my name and told me how I needed to keep my dog leashed and muzzled in future I reject your explanation. I think you wrote the post without much thought to how I might be feeling or how your comments may be received.

To everyone else, thanks for your support at this horrible time xx


----------



## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

I too know Metaldog and her dogs. She puts so much effort into those dogs. Teaching them good recall, etc. They are very well behaved dogs... mine could learn a lot from them 
Can I also say I have 2 small dogs, who all of metaldogs dogs are great with.

This is not the time to be dishing out blame. We have two devastated dog owners tonight.


----------



## ozrex (Aug 30, 2011)

What happened is really, really horrible. I'm so very sorry for you Metaldog.

Please don't be hard on yourself. Animals will be animals and accidents will happen. At least Scrappy is at peace now. 

You and your neighbour seem to be very sensible and compassionate to each other over the incident. That's great. It's a terrible thing and it shouldn't be made any worse. That would be utterly pointless.

Again, please don't be hard on yourself. It was awful; no-one meant it to happen and it's over. Just be as kind to yourself as you would be to your neighbour. It was rotten but it was an accident.


----------



## chichi (Apr 22, 2012)

You cant be responsible for dogs that come into your garden. End of day....if blame should be placed anywhere....it is with poor Scrappys owner. I make sure my fence is completely dog proof and make sure that my dogs are all accounted for when I shut the garden door.....and this is very much a multidog household.

RIP Scrappy....God Bless.


----------



## Reverie (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm so sorry Metaldog, what a horrible incident for all involved.  I hope things between you and your neighbour are still okay, and don't feel too bad, it was no ones fault. x


----------



## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

Firstly Metaldog I am sorry for you...this all sounds like a very badly timed accident and I am sure you are full of what ifs and maybes regardless to what we say.

Secondly I don't know Bizkit however have seen plenty of picture of him on group walks where he does'nt seem in the least aggressive.

Lexi would quite happily run around off lead with a dog put her on lead and she will go for it (as terencesmum knows) and I dread to think what she would so if a dog entered her home uninvited (thats an important word)

I don't class lexi as dog aggressive and won't keep her on lead or muzzled but I would expect a similar outcome, if a dog got into my garden.


----------



## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

How awful for everyone involved  Please don't beat yourself up over this, it was a tragic accident. Yes it could have been prevented - by Scrappy's owner preventing him from escaping as opposed to you - but hindsight is 20:20 and I don't think anyone is to blame here at all.

So sad, RIP Scrappy.


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks again for the new messages of support everyone.

When my neighbour came to tell me what had happened I gave her a big hug and we both shed a tear together. We have lived side by side for 17 years and have always looked out for one another. Many years ago their previous dog attacked one of my cats when it went in their garden and he was put to sleep. About 5 years ago her husband accidentally ran over and killed another of my cats when it dashed out in front of his car and he brought her home to us with tears in his eyes and apologised. We have always been honest with one another and compassionate because bad things happen occasionally.

I'm going to get them a sympathy card and some flowers next week, not because I feel like it's my fault but because it's a kind thing to do and I want them to know I'm thinking of them.


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

What a tragic tragic accident 

Sounds like your neighbour and you are being very sensible at an obviusly emotional time. 

It must be terrible for all concerned, thiinking of you Metaldog x x


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

Milliepoochie said:


> What a tragic tragic accident
> 
> Sounds like your neighbour and you are being very sensible at an obviusly emotional time.
> 
> It must be terrible for all concerned, thiinking of you Metaldog x x


Thanks Milliepoochie.

Scrappy was the last thing I thought about last night and my first thought this morning


----------



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Just seeing this now - how tragic for all involved  Sending hugs to you xx


----------



## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Although a really sad thing to happen, really its not your fault if you pointed out that he could get through and the neighbour knew that they had a history and really didnt like each other, then really you cant be held responsible. It is very sad though, Run free at the bridge old lad.
.


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

What a horrible incident 

Poor Scrappy, his owner and you! Nothing anyone could have done by the sounds of it and the fact your neighbour has responded as they have speaks volumes; it was an accident simple as.

I don't know what else to say, but thinking of you because no matter what you will no doubt remember this forever  it happened, it was an accident and it was unavoidable, however rubbish that is


----------



## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

So very sad. It would of taken 'either' neighbours 5 minutes to fix. Maybe I'm missing something, I know If I had a dog that I know would attack & had previously 'ragged' my neighbours dog I would fix the hole for my own piece of mind


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

metaldog said:


> Thanks Milliepoochie.
> 
> Scrappy was the last thing I thought about last night and my first thought this morning


It sounds like it was one of those freak things. Even with the most secure garden accidents happen.

It also sounds like even if you found him prior to going out it would of been the same outcome due to his age.

Give all your dogs an extra special hug x x


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

MaisyMoomin said:


> So very sad. It would of taken 'either' neighbours 5 minutes to fix. Maybe I'm missing something, I know If I had a dog that I know would attack & had previously 'ragged' my neighbours dog I would fix the hole for my own piece of mind


If you had read the whole thread you would have seen that every time he got under the fence I told my neighbour who then fixed the gap. There are a lot of foxes who scoot under the fence and her dog would sometimes fit through. If I'd have known a) someone had left my back gate open giving my dogs access to my garden at the side of my house and b) next doors dog had picked that exact moment to invade my side garden I wouldn't have let it happen.


----------



## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

metaldog said:


> If you had read the whole thread you would have seen that every time he got under the fence I told my neighbour who then fixed the gap. There are a lot of foxes who scoot under the fence and her dog would sometimes fit through. If I'd have known a) someone had left my back gate open giving my dogs access to my garden at the side of my house and b) next doors dog had picked that exact moment to invade my side garden I wouldn't have let it happen.


Every time! So it was an issue which kept happening! You know all the in's & out's no need to justify it to me.

RIP little one.


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Every time! So it was an issue which kept happening! You know all the in's & out's no need to justify it to me.
> 
> RIP little one.


have you read the whole thread?


----------



## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Every time! So it was an issue which kept happening! You know all the in's & out's no need to justify it to me.
> 
> RIP little one.


I suggest you read the thread and not just a few posts here and there before going on about something when you clearly have your facts wrong.


----------



## catz4m8z (Aug 27, 2008)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Every time! So it was an issue which kept happening! You know all the in's & out's no need to justify it to me.
> 
> RIP little one.


if it was foxes you would of had to attach fox proof mesh to the fence and bury it several feet out to prevent it and that would of been a major undertaking. TBH if I lived next door to DA dogs I would be watching like a hawk everytime mine went out (I dont ever leave mine alone in the garden even though there aren't any dogs near me!). I cant imagine how awful it must be to loose a dog that had been with you for 16yrs though.
RIP little dog...


----------



## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

metaldog said:


> have you read the whole thread?


Sorry was just quoting what you said 'every time he got under the fence I told my neighbour who fixed the gap' which sounds like its happened more than once. 
If I knew it was something that had happened more than once I would check my gate & the part of the fence with the problem before letting my dogs out knowing full well what the result would be if the 2 dogs would meet. Maybe just me!


----------



## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Sorry was just quoting what you said 'every time he got under the fence I told my neighbour who fixed the gap' which sounds like its happened more than once.
> If I knew it was something that had happened more than once I would check my gate & the part of the fence with the problem before letting my dogs out knowing full well what the result would be if the 2 dogs would meet. Maybe just me!


Don't really think this is necessary. The incident has happened, there are two grieving dog owners - not the time nor the place to start placing yourself above others now, is it?

As already mentioned many times in this thread - Scrappy didn't get under a hole in the fence - someone left the garden gate open which he came through - clearly an accident. Please go through and read the WHOLE thread before posting any more pointless comments and upsetting the OP any more than is neccessary :incazzato:


----------



## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

Im by far placing myself above Anyone. It's a forum, if you don't want people's views don't post.

As ive read it he came through a hole on the other side of the open gate.

If I had a dog I knew could do that to a neighbours dog I would take every precaution possible to prevent it.

I'm not blaming anyone, both owners should take responsibility for the tragedy, it's the fact people are saying its a tragic accident & nothing could of been done. Personally I think things could of been done by both owners.


----------



## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Im by far placing myself above Anyone. It's a forum, if you don't want people's views don't post.
> 
> As ive read it he came through a hole on the other side of the open gate.
> 
> ...


As well as that may be, the accident has happened - What use is posting this comment, especially the bit in bold, other than to make the OP feel guilty about the act - something I'm sure she already does!

Forum's aren't just for correcting people and pointing out what they could have done differently, they are also for supporting people and helping them through hard times - something none of your comments do at all.


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Im by far placing myself above Anyone. It's a forum, if you don't want people's views don't post.
> 
> As ive read it he came through a hole on the other side of the open gate.
> 
> ...


Thank you captain hindsight!

If only I went out of my way and spent double the time I already do making sure things are safe for my dog then accidents wouldn't happen. I, like metaldog, do the best I can with what I have though.


----------



## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Im by far placing myself above Anyone. It's a forum, if you don't want people's views don't post.
> 
> As ive read it he came through a hole on the other side of the open gate.
> 
> ...


Right I don't normally do this.. but why don't you just back off? Metaldog is in bits over this, and doesn't need your judgments. This forum is also about supporting people. 
So you've never made a mistake, never thought in hindsight? well good for you


----------



## sailor (Feb 5, 2010)

How awful  RIP Scrappy

It was just a tragic accident, even knowing this you will still feel awful about the whole thing. Thinkng of you x


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Im by far placing myself above Anyone. It's a forum, if you don't want people's views don't post.
> 
> As ive read it he came through a hole on the other side of the open gate.
> 
> ...


What else could Metaldog do when her neighbour has the dogs out and obviously wasnt watching them? 

Everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes.

I think the OP is going through hell and back with this at the moment on top of the stresses of life.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but it is exactly that hindsight.

There is a risk in everything we do in our lives - Do you check your dogs collar before every use? Check the hooks on the lead? test dog food before you feed it? Have a quick look under your car for an obvious problems before every drive? Honestly walk around your garden before you let your dog out for a pee at 5 in the morning when its chucking with rain?

I know I dont and I suspect most people don't - Accidents happen and the poor original poster doesn't need these types of comments which are neither supportive or helpful considering the current situation.


----------



## 2Cats2Dogs (Oct 30, 2012)

I am truly sorry to hear of such a tragic accident. My sympathies with your neighbour.

Please do not blame yourself. This is one of those extremely rare and unfortunate accidents. It is good the neighbour has recognised this though I know it is of no consolation to you or your neighbour. I hope you are both able to support each other through this.

RIP Scrappy xxx


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Im by far placing myself above Anyone. It's a forum, if you don't want people's views don't post.
> 
> As ive read it he came through a hole on the other side of the open gate.
> 
> ...


As you weren't there, have never seen my garden, haven't seen what my neighbour and I have done over the 17 years we've lived side by side to prevent our dogs getting together, you don't have the right to judge me or make flippant remarks.

Now go climb back into your ivory tower and hope nothing tragic ever happens in your wonderful and perfect life and leave me to mourn.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Accidents happen and all I can say is there but for the grace of god go I. It's only by sheer luck that I'd taken Rupert in just minutes before next doors Lab puppy squeezed under the fence into our garden. Had Rupe been out then I have no doubt that puppy would have been killed. 

This isn't the time or place for coulda, woulda, shoulda, I imagine Metaldog is devastated enough about what happened without having people saying she should have done more.


----------



## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Im by far placing myself above Anyone. It's a forum, if you don't want people's views don't post.
> 
> As ive read it he came through a hole on the other side of the open gate.
> 
> ...


It must be wonderful to be so blooming perfect. I think your posts are unkind.Both these people are in mourning and hindsight is a marvellous thing. There but for the grace of god go all of us.Mistakes happen,life isnt perfect-well not for most of us.


----------



## terrierist (Sep 26, 2012)

Metaldog - what a horrid horrid thing to have happened. You have my every sympathy having encountereed my own horrible incident involviong death, its not nice. It sounds like whilst it was known these two had form, you did what was humanely possible. What else could you have done - I know I don't always inspect my garden gate/wall before letting the dogs out. 
Be kind to yourself x
Maybe we can support each other through these days of grief/guilt/utter sadness x


----------



## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

I've been honest in my opinion on what happened from what 
I've read, if you see that as unkind or flippant so be it.
If my dog ragged anyone's pet in my garden, in a neighbours garden, on a walk, if I could not 100% guarantee my dog wouldn't harm another even in my own garden knowing it's done it before it would be muzzled.
Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own dogs in their home, garden etc. Nothing wrong with that.
I've never said life is perfect but certain things can be prevented when we already hold certain facts.


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2013)

terrierist said:


> Metaldog - what a horrid horrid thing to have happened. You have my every sympathy having encountereed my own horrible incident involviong death, its not nice. It sounds like whilst it was known these two had form, you did what was humanely possible. What else could you have done - I know I don't always inspect my garden gate/wall before letting the dogs out.
> *Be kind to yourself x*
> Maybe we can support each other through these days of grief/guilt/utter sadness x


I only liked this because of some posters feeling the need to rub salt on already sore wounds. This is what the Forum is all about - supporting like minded, genuine dog lovers through times of grief and sadness. Terrierist - I hope you take your own advice here! Thoughts are with you both.


----------



## tattoogirl73 (Jun 25, 2011)

RIP scrappy . hindsight is a wonderful thing but we can't live on ifs and buts, accidents can and do happen unfortunately. you can't help it if someone has opened your gate and not shut it after them. my sympathies to you and scrappy's owner.


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2013)

MaisyMoomin said:


> I've been honest in my opinion on what happened from what
> I've read, if you see that as unkind or flippant so be it.
> If my dog ragged anyone's pet in my garden, in a neighbours garden, on a walk, if I could not 100% guarantee my dog wouldn't harm another even in my own garden knowing it's done it before it would be muzzled.
> Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own dogs in their home, garden etc. Nothing wrong with that.


A very important saying my Mother used frequently on me growing up and one I believe a lesson to be carried throughout all walks of life:

If you've nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all.

You're the only one on this thread who has felt the need to point the finger, even the parties involved in this tragic accident have accepted it was an accident. Why can't you?


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> I've been honest in my opinion on what happened from what
> I've read, if you see that as unkind or flippant so be it.
> If my dog ragged anyone's pet in my garden, in a neighbours garden, on a walk, if I could not 100% guarantee my dog wouldn't harm another even in my own garden knowing it's done it before it would be muzzled.
> Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own dogs in their home, garden etc. Nothing wrong with that.
> I've never said life is perfect but certain things can be prevented when wee already hold certain facts.


Sorry I disagree - For alot of dogs the only safe place they can go offlead and unmuzzled is in their own garden.

Why should MD have to muzzle her dog Do you know this dog

Sometimes these things just happen - You cannot wrap your dog/ world in cotton wool.

If you have read a few of MD posts you may have a small inkling what she is going through right now - Outside of this thread to.

Personally if you have nothing nice or supportive to say then I think you should resist from pointing fingers / playing the blame game. Theres nothing to gain from it other than more heartache / upset!


----------



## MaisyMoomin (Mar 14, 2012)

Milliepoochie said:


> Sorry I disagree - For alot of dogs the only safe place they can go offlead and unmuzzled is in their own garden.
> 
> Why should MD have to muzzle her dog Do you know this dog
> 
> ...


Why would you not muzzle a dog that's done it before? Crazy!

I hope if anything the op realises what her dogs capable of.


----------



## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

erinn said:


> A very important saying my Mother used frequently on me growing up and one I believe a lesson to be carried throughout all walks of life:
> 
> *If you've nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all.*
> 
> You're the only one on this thread who has felt the need to point the finger, even the parties involved in this tragic accident have accepted it was an accident. Why can't you?


Absolutely that is an expression my Mother also used and I try and live by it. Some people need to look in their hearts and find that thing called compassion.


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Why would you not muzzle a dog that's done it before? Crazy!
> 
> I hope if anything the op realises what her dogs capable of.


No I wouldn't muzzle my own dog in my own garden! point blank - Other peoples actions will not prevent me from using MY garden how I want 

Anyway do you really think a muzzle is guaranteed to stop problems? Have you considered the problems / reactiveness a muzzle could cause in itself?

I cannot understand why you have continued to post arguing your point.

Do you genuinely think its adding anything to the thread other than heartache?

This dog is DEAD - the owner and OP are devastated - The outcome cant be changed - It was an accident.

Why make things any harder than they need to be?


----------



## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Why would you not muzzle a dog that's done it before? Crazy!
> 
> I hope if anything the op realises what her dogs capable of.


I would just like to point out that ANY of our dogs are capable of what happened. I would never muzzle Eddie in our garden. It is his space and he should be happy and relaxed in his home.

Accidents happen, this is all there is. Metaldog's dog has been on many a walk with other member's dogs on here and I think unless you have met said dog that you should be very careful of what you are insinuating.

I really think you should just stop posting on this thread now unless you wish some support or condolences to the OP. Other than that I would suggest you go and find something more interesting for yourself to do other than make an already distraught individual feel worse. :mad2:

You have said your bit, now off you pop!


----------



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Why would you not muzzle a dog that's done it before? Crazy!
> 
> I hope if anything the op realises what her dogs capable of.


A muzzle is likely to have done very little good. A sighthound type dog (or any breed, for that matter) can still do an awful lot of damage to a small dog, muzzled or not - especially an elderly frail toy breed.

My Jake would, no doubt about it, kill any unknown small dog or cat - we're lucky that we don't have neighbours, but if we did, and they had pets, no way on earth would I muzzle him when out in his own garden. He's muzzled and on lead on walks - his time in the garden is his free time to have a good run, and freedom without the muzzle.


----------



## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Closing this thread, metal dog message me


----------



## tashi (Dec 5, 2007)

Ok after speaking to metaldog it is agreed to reopen this thread. Please remember whether we agree or not each member is entitled to their view.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Metaldog!
Here's my views on this! I AM responsible for my own dogs (welfare) in my own garden!
And as per you other poll re checking perimitars! I do this this QUICKLY prior to opening the door! BUT if there is ANYTHING in my garden once I let them out (whether that be wild or pet) then that is NOT my responsibily! 

BUT! that said, if this little dog were constansly coming onto you land and you were aware of that then there was a need for extra awareness! BUT in the same note the same needs applying to your neighbour, as at the end of the day she was responsible for her dogs welfare NOT you
A tragic accident! don't beat yourself up


----------



## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Why would you not muzzle a dog that's done it before? Crazy!
> 
> I hope if anything the op realises what her dogs capable of.


And i hope you realise what a moron you've made yourself sound. I know bizkit personally and would leave my dogs with him all day.

As others have said alot of dogs would do what Bizkit did, with a strange dog coming into their garden, Chance sure as hell would and he isn't DA.

Ignore the idiots metaldog, noones to blame.

Rip little one


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Where do you draw the line? I was told by several people that my last dog should have been muzzled in his own house and garden because I have absolutely no doubt he would have attacked and seriously injured if not killed any other animal that got in. I took the relevant precautions in public but no way am I muzzling my dog in his own house or garden because others might fail to keep their pets under sufficient control.

Any dog is capable of seriously injuring or killing another, not just those who are aggressive or who have done it before.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Sorry was just quoting what you said 'every time he got under the fence I told my neighbour who fixed the gap' which sounds like its happened more than once.
> If I knew it was something that had happened more than once I would check my gate & the part of the fence with the problem before letting my dogs out knowing full well what the result would be if the 2 dogs would meet. Maybe just me!


And would you have checked thoroughly enuff to have know if there was a fox, rabbit, hedgehog. hamster in there then?
sitsback and waits for more red rep from SWEET MaisyMoomin


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Why would you not muzzle a dog that's done it before? Crazy!
> 
> I hope if anything the op realises what her dogs capable of.


ANY dog is capable of savaging another! have you forgotton this happened in thenOPs garden?


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

I've asked for the thread to be re-opened. Please play nice peeps 



MaisyMoomin said:


> Why would you not muzzle a dog that's done it before? Crazy!
> 
> I hope if anything the op realises what her dogs capable of.


masie we obviously don't see the world the same way and you're making a lot of assumptions about my dog so let me educate you about me and my dogs a little.

I know what my dogs are capable of, they are lurchers and a terrier they instinctively chase down and kill quarry because they have been bred to kill small furries. One of my lurchers Shannow is not trustworthy so I muzzle her when she's out and about because, despite what you may think I am a responsible dog owner.

I won't be muzzling Bizkit because I have very good control over him. His recall is as good as any dog can be. I can call him back from anything and he responds. I leash him if there are other dogs being walked nearby. Usually we walk on bridle paths and public footpaths around farm land.

Bizkit is great with little dogs, he lives with a 6kg JRT and is friends with a Chihuahua, a cairne terrier puppy who won't leave him alone and a yorkie x. We go on a lot of group walks with dogs of all shapes and sizes.

The reason this happened is because two male dogs who lived next door to each other had a territorial boundary dispute. It was personal between them. He's not like that with other small dogs he meets when he's out but I recall him anyway as a precaution.

Scrappy has been very aggressive to Bizkit through the fence for three years. The incident two years ago Scrappy had escaped from his garden through a bit of the fence which doesn't adjoin my garden, he ran up to Bizkit in the street and attacked him, Bizkit grabbed Scrappy and shook him. I told him drop it and he did immediately. I then told him to leave it and went next door to tell my neighbours what had happened.

Since then I have texted my neighbour when I have gone out through my front garden with my dogs so she could get hers in to prevent the two getting together.

I also adjusted the set up so my dogs could go into the back garden which is not accessible to the neighbours dog if it got into my garden.

I consider this taking reasonable steps to prevent the two getting together again.

I have done everything I could to prevent the two getting together again but sadly it wasn't enough and I feel awful, without you berating me about shudda wouldda couldda. There is nothing you can say or do to make me feel worse than I already do. Scrappy was injured because me and my neighbour weren't on the ball on Saturday morning and we know that already thanks.

Try to put yourself in my shoes about how awful I already feel...and the thing people keep mentioning about other stuff going on and probably the reason I was not as conscientious as usual on Saturday is that my dad is in the end stage of terminal cancer so I'm a bit all over the place to be honest.

My neighbour knows this and she showed me some compassion how about you do the same?


----------



## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

oh it's open again, i know i sent you a PM instead but i'll comment here too.
it was obviously a tragic accident and you are absolutely in no way to blame, please ignore anyone saying otherwise and making uncalled for comments. if your neighbour accepts it was a mistake without placing blame then there is no need for a certain poster here trying to make you feel worse. RIP to the little dog x


----------



## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Metaldog I've find it sad that you have had to justify yourself and your dogs. And also what else it going on for you in your life 

Here for you. Be gentle on you x


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> I've been honest in my opinion on what happened from what
> I've read, if you see that as unkind or flippant so be it.
> If my dog ragged anyone's pet in my garden, in a neighbours garden, on a walk, if I could not 100% guarantee my dog wouldn't harm another even in my own garden knowing it's done it before it would be muzzled.
> Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own dogs in their home, garden etc. Nothing wrong with that.
> I've never said life is perfect but certain things can be prevented when we already hold certain facts.


Maisy! Im dying to repay your red rep but alas it wont allow me yet!


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

The way I see it - it's an unfortunate accident. 

Had the dog not been elderly, it may not have died.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

MaisyMoomin said:


> Why would you not muzzle a dog that's done it before? Crazy!
> 
> I hope if anything the op realises what her dogs capable of.


All dogs are capable of it. We have had a near miss with a neighbour's cat in our garden. I check the garden for cats before the dogs go out and have made the neighbour aware that her cat STILL comes into our garden at times. She says that it's a risk she has to take with free - roaming cats. I think it likely that Kilo would kill a cat in his garden; do you think he should be muzzled at home too?


----------



## Leah89 (Jan 6, 2013)

Aww poor Scrappy, it's not your fault at all, your neighbour should have made sure he couldn't get through, especially since you told her he could get through more than once! *Hugs*


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2013)

MaisyMoomin said:


> I've been honest in my opinion on what happened from what
> I've read, if you see that as unkind or flippant so be it.
> If my dog ragged anyone's pet in my garden, in a neighbours garden, on a walk, if I could not 100% guarantee my dog wouldn't harm another even in my own garden knowing it's done it before it would be muzzled.
> Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own dogs in their home, garden etc. Nothing wrong with that.
> I've never said life is perfect but certain things can be prevented when we already hold certain facts.


Hi MaisyMoomin, this is reality checking in 

Not a single dog owner can guarantee their dog will not harm another. See, dogs have these things called teeth, and they are built to use them.

I hate Scrappy died, poor guy. I hate Metaldog has to cope with this. I can't imagine the emotional turmoil she must be going through. Though I have a feeling she is beating herself up plenty without our help. 
Sometimes $hit happens and all that's left to do is pick up the pieces and move on as best you can. Which, FWIW, I think Metaldog and her neighbor are behaving admirably, and it's a nice change to see adults acting like adults.

Bizkit is not a bad dog for doing this. He is not a raging killer who needs to be muzzled in his own yard. He is a normal dog who reacted to Scrappy being in his yard aggressing in a perfectly normal canine way.

ETA, changed it to Scrappy died instead of got killed, Bizkit did NOT kill Scrappy, my mistake making it sound like he did. The injuries were bad, and Scrappy was old, vet put him down.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Hi MaisyMoomin, this is reality checking in
> 
> Not a single dog owner can guarantee their dog will not harm another. See, dogs have these things called teeth, and they are built to use them.
> 
> ...


Think we are all in liason! it could have happened to any of us! let us hope that maisybloodymoo is never in a situation like this! But maybe not! she and her dog are obviously perfect!


----------



## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Hi MaisyMoomin, this is reality checking in
> 
> Not a single dog owner can guarantee their dog will not harm another. See, dogs have these things called teeth, and they are built to use them.
> 
> Bizkit is not a bad dog for doing this. He is not a raging killer who needs to be muzzled in his own yard. He is a normal dog who reacted to Scrappy being in his yard aggressing in a perfectly normal canine way.


Completely agree; I've just had both my bitches in a fight a moment ago. One is in season and had her treat toy (albeit empty) and I'd forgotten to get it off her before the other dogs had finished their food and the other wandered too close and ignored the signals and I had to split them up.

It wasn't out of malice. It's hormones and nature kicking in. As well as my error.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SLB said:


> Completely agree; I've just had both my bitches in a fight a moment ago. One is in season and had her treat toy (albeit empty) and I'd forgotten to get it off her before the other dogs had finished their food and the other wandered too close and ignored the signals and I had to split them up.
> 
> It wasn't out of malice. It's hormones and nature kicking in. As well as my error.


And I agree too


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> I've been honest in my opinion on what happened from what
> I've read, if you see that as unkind or flippant so be it.
> If my dog ragged anyone's pet in my garden, in a neighbours garden, on a walk, if I could not 100% guarantee my dog wouldn't harm another even in my own garden knowing it's done it before it would be muzzled.
> Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own dogs in their home, garden etc. Nothing wrong with that.
> I've never said life is perfect but certain things can be prevented when we already hold certain facts.


so if someone comes into you house then and attacks you your dogs just sit there?
Personally think what you have said to the OP is bang outta order!


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

I would like to add that I have made the fence secure enough that Pippi JRT who is tiny cannot get into next door's garden because if she did their Ambul who is also very DA would probably do her a lot of damage. Also I have blocked the gate and closed the gap scrappy got into our garden through on Saturday.

ETA I have always made the fence secure for Pippi. Not just since Saturday.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

As I said in the other post it wasn't your responsibility to check the fence - your dogs didn't stray off their boundary. Small dogs can create huge problems for themselves and if we hadn't been around when Bruce was attacking Marty over that frigging hedgehog I think Marts would have had to kill him to get him to stop, or at least done enough damage for Bruce to retreat. No dog is going to rationalise a situation and try to be kind when they have a history of squabbles and I bet Scrappy didn't back down initially either.

If I thought Teebs etc. could get out of my garden there is no way he'd be out til I had fixed things. 

Terrible accident but your neighbour holds the responsibility I feel, not you! 

Run free lil Scrappy. xx


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

Malmum said:


> As I said in the other post it wasn't your responsibility to check the fence - your dogs didn't stray off their boundary. Small dogs can create huge problems for themselves and if we hadn't been around when Bruce was attacking Marty over that frigging hedgehog I think Marts would have had to kill him to get him to stop, or at least done enough damage for Bruce to retreat. No dog is going to rationalise a situation and try to be kind when they have a history of squabbles and I bet Scrappy didn't back down initially either.
> 
> If I thought Teebs etc. could get out of my garden there is no way he'd be out til I had fixed things.
> 
> ...


Scrappy was a fearless little bugger. I'm sure he thought he was as big as one of your Mals bless him. He'd take on any dog who crossed his path. He lived with another male, Samson an Ambull and it was definitely Scrappy who was in charge.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

metaldog said:


> Scrappy was a fearless little bugger. I'm sure he thought he was as big as one of your Mals bless him. He'd take on any dog who crossed his path. He lived with another male, Samson an Ambull and it was definitely Scrappy who was in charge.


Bruce is the same  if I so much as tell one of the Mals off and he's in the room he'll be right behind it at it's heels in no time. In fact since the hedgehog incident I don't trust him at all with Marty. Marty on the other hand has never started a fight!


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

metaldog said:


> Scrappy was a fearless little bugger. I'm sure he thought he was as big as one of your Mals bless him. He'd take on any dog who crossed his path. He lived with another male, Samson an Ambull and it was definitely Scrappy who was in charge.


They say dogs dont see size MD and judging by the amount of times muy eldest has been attached by small dogs im inclined to believe it!

all I can say is thank GOD he's a bit of a numpty for his size and has NEVER retaliated, else I could very easily be in the position that you are now


----------



## Angie2011 (Feb 2, 2011)

HUGS hun X


----------



## new westie owner (Apr 30, 2010)

Thoughts with all concerned  tragic accident ,and thats what it was( accident ) i have neighbor with 5 dogs everytime we go into garden start barking  when Bobby is in garden all of them bark growl tear away at fence , Bobby ignores them walks over to fence lifts leg and wees on fence  then comes inside leaving them to it


----------



## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

guess whos been red blobbing


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2013)

pogo said:


> guess whos been red blobbing


What's 'red blobbing' ??????????


----------



## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

erinn said:


> What's 'red blobbing' ??????????


It's a secret naughty thing


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

erinn said:


> What's 'red blobbing' ??????????


it's a woman thing


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

pogo said:


> guess whos been red blobbing


well share then


----------



## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

DT said:


> well share then


Don't worry i've been spreading the love


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

pogo said:


> Don't worry i've been spreading the love


So have I


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2013)

pogo said:


> It's a secret naughty thing


LOL!!!! Sorry - never heard it called this before :blushing:

Every-day's a school day. Oh dear, I'm going back in my box.


----------



## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Judging from the previous incident it sounds as though Scrappy may have started something he could not finish. At some point people need to take responsibility for their own dog's actions even if they come off worse.


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

I haven't read past page 18 as I want to get my condolences in before it gets closed.

I actually feel physically sick for both parties, what an absolute nightmare. Metaldog I am SO sorry for what you must be going through and please pass on my condolences to your neighbour also 

What an absolutely awful situation. Life changes so quickly and after all the time you've lived there it hadn't happened...why would it all of a sudden?

No ones fault at all...but that opinion can't be much comfort to either of you at the minute.

I'm so sad for you all...at least, at the VERY least the fact you and your neighbour are not at odds says something for humans 

So, so sorry for all concerned

RIP little one 

again, so sorry Metaldog


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2013)

DT said:


> it's a woman thing


Thank god I'm 'hiding' behind a computer screen!!

I thought you meant something else 

Thanks for leading me on though....Bast**ds 

I'm so Irish sometimes..........


----------



## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

You've had loads of condolences already, but I'd just like to add mine. I can't imagine how you or your neighbour must be feeling.

Unfortunately, some people can't seem to accept that accidents do happen, no matter how careful you are. It's a fact of life.

I'm glad your neighbour is being reasonable about it, for your sake.


----------



## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

condolences to you and scrappys family


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MaisyMoomin said:


> I hope if anything the op realises what her dogs capable of.


ANY dog is 'capable' and anyone who believes otherwise is deluded!


----------



## pogo (Jul 25, 2011)

DT said:


> ANY dog is 'capable' and anyone who believes otherwise is deluded!


exactly i know for sure Chance would have done the same and probably worse!


----------



## metaldog (Nov 11, 2009)

pogo said:


> Don't worry i've been spreading the love





DT said:


> So have I


you are both very naughty, what happens in red blobbing should remain secret for ever.

I've done a bit too


----------



## blossom21 (Oct 29, 2012)

erinn said:


> What's 'red blobbing' ??????????


Yeh what is red blobbing,let us in on this mysterious thing ?????


----------



## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

metaldog said:


> you are both very naughty, what happens in red blobbing should remain secret for ever.
> 
> I've done a bit too


If only I knew how to blob along. 
Gave up trying in the end.


----------



## Megan345 (Aug 8, 2012)

blossom21 said:


> Yeh what is red blobbing,let us in on this mysterious thing ?????


The little green blobs on the top right are given for positive rep. You can give positive or negative (red, obviously) rep by clicking on the scales in the top right of someone's post. Hence red blobbing 

If you'd like to practise, you can by repping me for an informative post


----------



## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

Red blob = bad rep 

Megan345 beat me! Rep for coming second!


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2013)

blossom21 said:


> Yeh what is red blobbing,let us in on this mysterious thing ?????


It's something only women do...........:devil::devil:


----------



## Micky93 (May 15, 2012)

Megan345 said:


> The little green blobs on the top right are given for positive rep. You can give positive or negative (red, obviously) rep by clicking on the scales in the top right of someone's post. Hence red blobbing
> 
> If you'd like to practise, you can by repping me for an informative post





Pupcakes said:


> Red blob = bad rep
> 
> Megan345 beat me! Rep for coming second!


For being SO very helpful and offering up such kind services in letting us practice on you...... you each should have an extra green blob from yours truly


----------



## Weezawoo (Aug 5, 2012)

I've just read the thread and I am so glad that we are left with the nice people on the forum who are supportive! There are some really amazing people here who truly care for each other :001_wub:

I am so sorry to hear about what happened  something that will always be in your mind but as everyone says it is such an accident no one really is to blame! 

Take no notice of the people that want to cause an argument for their own amusement, you are a fantastic dog owner! We can't stop all the accidents from happening, if we did I think we would all be superheroes! 

RIP scrappy! I bet he's having a lovely time running free 

*hugs* to you and your neighbour!


----------

