# How often?



## NicolaC (Apr 14, 2009)

How often do you breed your cats?

Fizz has been an excellent mummy and I am very keen to let her have another litterbut I know I am going to have problems keeping her indoors and obviously don't want her having another litter too quickly.

Our babies are 5 weeks old today and have mastered the stairs and one of them has eventually started lapping cimicat today (I have almost a full tub from when they were first born so thought I'd use it whilst weaning.) Fizz herself is also doing very well and plumped right back up, in fact she is probably heavier now than before she had her kittens.

My heart is telling me too leave her for a year before mating again. Does that sound about right?

Nic x


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

My senior queen had two litters last year and has another litter this year and she is in fine condition. To be fair though, she was very ill after the second litter last year (unconnected with kittening) so the babies were fostered from about 10 days. However her mother also had two litters a year for about three years running with no problems at all. Female cats are designed to be pregnant or nursing babies, they have a long break over the winter. When you want to breed your girl again, do it.

Liz


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

I agree, twice a year is fine. Obviously you have to judge each cat as an individual but if you feel she's up to it then go for it.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

NicolaC said:


> Fizz has been an excellent mummy and I am very keen to let her have another litterbut I know I am going to have problems keeping her indoors and obviously don't want her having another litter too quickly.


Sorry but am I reading this wrongly that you will just let her out when you want her to have another litter?


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## Biawhiska (Mar 28, 2008)

I read it that way too. I really think you should have your cat spayed.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

O yes, I hadn't spotted that!

Liz


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

If you let her out and she is in good condition, she will fall pregnant straight away as soon as she is calling, which may in fact be quite soon.


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

I read it that way too...

If thats the case:

Please please dont breed her again, there are too many kittens out there at the moment. I should know i deal with them every day! I love them all but i wish the numbers were decreasing not increasing. 

I foster pregnant mums for a local rescue, if you really want a house full of kittens perhaps you could look at doing something like that too?

If i have misread though, then you shouldnt let an entire pedigree queen outside at all. I would say that the number of times you breed a queen would definatly depend on the breed and the queen herself. Some queens only call once or twice a year, others call every 3 weeks. Some cats bounce right back into shape once they have had their kittens, others take a good deal longer. 

I think the GCCF reccomendations is 3 litters in 2 years or similar - someone with the relevent experience will be along soon to verify that for me.


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

Well she might be capable of having more than one litter in the year but the question you should ask yourself is would it be fair on her? Kittens are very demanding on any queen and most of them give 110 % in the time they are looking after their babies..........is there a good enough reason why you want her to have another litter so soon?

If she is being let out regularly and becomes pregnant every time then her health will start to suffer, it would be kinder on her to have her spayed.


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## Elmstar (Apr 7, 2008)

hmmm, I hadn't realised that either. If you're letting her out to get pregnant you don't know what she's going to catch!


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## gerisdolly (May 20, 2009)

if I read this right the kittens are 5 weeks the queen will come back into call any time I would not breed from her at this time nor would I let her out to be mated by any tom who might be a carrier of infection and you could loose your girl ..get her spayed and lavish her with love and she will give you love and affection back for years to come:001_smile: geri


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## Stiltskin (Apr 11, 2009)

The GCCF recommend 3 times in 2 years.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

billyboysmammy said:


> I think the GCCF reccomendations is 3 litters in 2 years or similar - someone with the relevent experience will be along soon to verify that for me.


Some clubs make this rule but the GCCF does not. The GCCF only recommends (strongly!) a minimum 17 week gap between litters.

Liz


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

lizward said:


> Some clubs make this rule but the GCCF does not. The GCCF only recommends (strongly!) a minimum 17 week gap between litters.
> 
> Liz


Yes thats very true liz - as i checked this with the GCCF over a year ago.
Some clubs however will enforce this rule, else you cannot be a member.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

this is why people who breed deliberately do not let their cats out. I'm sorry, I'm sure you love her and take good care of her, but the reality is she will call again very soon, and can then theoretically be pregnant every 4 or 5 months. No matter how much care you take of her, this is going to take a toll on her.


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

How odd! The post I was replying to from OP vanished


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## NicolaC (Apr 14, 2009)

Thankyou for all your replies...........

Firstly I am not an inconsiderate cat owner. Fizz is a moggy.......... not everyone can afford the initial outlay of a pedigree cat. Just because I let her out regularly and do not wish her to be speyed as yet does not make me a bad person.

I happen to have many friends who want a kitten from Fizz, I had 5 people lined up for kittens, and I am particular about who gets them.

I was simply asking that seeing as she is likely to fall pregnant quickly, what is the minimum time you would reccomend keeping her in?


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## NicolaC (Apr 14, 2009)

I do love my cat very much and take great care of her, that is why I asked the question as I do not want to take too much from her.

I find it upsetting to see that people seem to think that a cat should not be bred unless it is a pedigree :sad: What makes my Fizz less special? She means as much to me as the rest of my family do.

I know I asked for advice and that is what I have been given, but please understand that I mean no harm to Fizz and that she is vaccinated in the same way your cats are as well as being regularly wormed and defleaed with a 6 monthly health check thrown in


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

You may be undoing all that good unless you know who the sire is, he could have anything & pass it on to your girl.


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## Abooksigun (Oct 16, 2008)

I agree messyhearts! If you do not know the sire of the kittens which infact, as your girl is an outside girl probably will have more than one father, then tbh all that effort you put in to her upkeep could possibly end in tears! Not meaning to sound harsh & at the end of the day it is your decision but just giving you the facts that's all. Wandering Tom's can potentially carry, FELV & FIV, fleas, ticks to name a few. I think the people who have answered, really do have your little girls welfare at heart & in the interest of her health it would be much better to have her spayed!


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## NicolaC (Apr 14, 2009)

OK, I am taking on board what you have all said, but as has been pointed out the decision is mine.

I had initially intended to let Fizz have one litter and keep a kitten from that. However, she only had the 2 and I had 5 great homes lined up and Fizz has done very well.

As for the sire, well Fizz does not wonder far. The extent of her travels take through next doors garden and in the front door. Back in February we had a neighbours cat camped out on the door step for a couple of days, and with no other sightings of any other cats, I am 99% sure he has to be the sire.

I know about the health implications which is why had decided on one more litter befor getting her spayed...............

Gawd, I hate trying to type responses as they just don't come over as well as the spoken word. I know this post can be misinterpretated as me basically not giving a hoot about the welfare of my pet, but that can not be further from the truth


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## Leah100 (Aug 17, 2008)

I don't think that's the case, I think people are just trying to tell you that just because you know Fizz's health history, and you believe you know who the dad is, does not mean you know that he is safe, he could have mated with any number of feral queens before you are ready to mate Fizz again [which WILL be very soon if she's not kept in. ] They are just trying to explain to you that there are no guarantees that he has not caught viruses that could put Fizz and any future babies at risk, that's all.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

Apart from the diseases she could get, a queen on heat outside, runs the risk of fights with other cats, as being hormonal they are all highly charged or the other cats see her as a threat if they are not trying to mate with her.
She also runs the risk of getting run over as she will go to unfamiliar territory, some cats even roll on the road, they are not thinking straight either, so their road sense is altered. Mating/fighting can spill over on to the road too.
People don't like calling noises either, they could hurt her to shut her up.

You say you love your cat? It is a jungle out there for an unspayed female on heat.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

To be fair, the chances of catching anythign from the tom are extremely low. There is no recorded case of FIV being spread by sexual contact so it would have to be a fight. FeLV can be vaccinated against and the vaccine is very effective, and anything related to cat flu or ringworm can just as easily be caught from ANY cat. The risk of death in the road is higher unless the area is very safe.

I think we have a rather odd attitude on this board, to be honest, Many people start climbing walls at the very idea of a moggy having kittens, but when people post up about their pregnant moggies or their moggies giving birth we all start cooing over the kittens and saying how wonderful it is. That's a bit inconsistent, isn't it?

Liz


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## NicolaC (Apr 14, 2009)

lizward said:


> To be fair, the chances of catching anythign from the tom are extremely low. There is no recorded case of FIV being spread by sexual contact so it would have to be a fight. FeLV can be vaccinated against and the vaccine is very effective, and anything related to cat flu or ringworm can just as easily be caught from ANY cat. The risk of death in the road is higher unless the area is very safe.
> 
> I think we have a rather odd attitude on this board, to be honest, Many people start climbing walls at the very idea of a moggy having kittens, but when people post up about their pregnant moggies or their moggies giving birth we all start cooing over the kittens and saying how wonderful it is. That's a bit inconsistent, isn't it?
> 
> Liz


Thankyou!

I think you have just hit the nail on the head with the thoughts that are actually going round my head just now.

I am not saying that you agree with my thoughts, but simply that you seem to be listening with an unbiased view.

Nic x


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

lizward said:


> I think we have a rather odd attitude on this board, to be honest, Many people start climbing walls at the very idea of a moggy having kittens, but when people post up about their pregnant moggies or their moggies giving birth we all start cooing over the kittens and saying how wonderful it is. That's a bit inconsistent, isn't it?


I think the attitude is that if it is preventable then most want to stop it happening in the first place but there is no turning back once the cat is pregnant or has had kittens, so there is no point in complaining after the horse has bolted. Some people give advice on moggie litters as they love cats/kittens and don't want to see them die unnecessarily despite what they think of the ethics. Some people do coo but most of them see no problem with moggie kittens in the first place.

I believe we do need moggie litters and would hate to see them die out but while there are homeless moggie cats and kittens being put down every day I do not agree with the "my cat *needs* a litter of kittens", or BYB or amateur BYB, or the "one litter" brigade.


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## Missymoo (May 19, 2009)

Sorry i have no idea!! lol i have a pregnant moggy too  xx


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## xxSaffronxx (Apr 2, 2008)

I agree with liz - just because she is a moggy does not mean that she should not be able to have a litter.

I think everyone just wants to make sure that you understand the implications hun thats all.

If you have any questions or need help with the litter, just let us know. We only want whats best for you and fizz


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

Why not do it properly? Have her health tested & then if you are going to mate her just find a tested mog? Or a mog & Pay to have it tested, it doesnt cost alot, £25 for your cat & £25 for theirs.

I Love mogs I have one & I dont see any reason why in the future I wouldnt have another, but just letting her out isnt the best way to do it!

If your going to do it no one can stop you, but we can help & Give the advice we feel is best :yikes:


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## Angeli (Jun 2, 2008)

lizward said:


> To be fair, the chances of catching anythign from the tom are extremely low. There is no recorded case of FIV being spread by sexual contact so it would have to be a fight. FeLV can be vaccinated against and the vaccine is very effective, and anything related to cat flu or ringworm can just as easily be caught from ANY cat. The risk of death in the road is higher unless the area is very safe.
> 
> I think we have a rather odd attitude on this board, to be honest, Many people start climbing walls at the very idea of a moggy having kittens, but when people post up about their pregnant moggies or their moggies giving birth we all start cooing over the kittens and saying how wonderful it is. That's a bit inconsistent, isn't it?
> 
> Liz


Speaking for myself here, I dont agree with all the indiscriminate breeding of moggies as there as just too many being bred for the wrong reasons. Its interesting to see that the number of moggy litters being born far out number the pedigrees. 

Having said that though, while I dont agree with the ethics I would always give help and advice where needed for the wellbeing of the cat.

We are all cat lovers after all is said and done.


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## Dozymoo (Feb 26, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> Why not do it properly? Have her health tested & then if you are going to mate her just find a tested mog? Or a mog & Pay to have it tested, it doesnt cost alot, £25 for your cat & £25 for theirs.
> 
> I Love mogs I have one & I dont see any reason why in the future I wouldnt have another, but just letting her out isnt the best way to do it!
> 
> If your going to do it no one can stop you, but we can help & Give the advice we feel is best :yikes:


Good post xx


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## Missymoo (May 19, 2009)

Taylorbaby said:


> Why not do it properly? Have her health tested & then if you are going to mate her just find a tested mog? Or a mog & Pay to have it tested, it doesnt cost alot, £25 for your cat & £25 for theirs.
> 
> I Love mogs I have one & I dont see any reason why in the future I wouldnt have another, but just letting her out isnt the best way to do it!
> 
> If your going to do it no one can stop you, but we can help & Give the advice we feel is best :yikes:


I do agree mine was an acident totally my fault!! and my baby girl will be spayed asap!! but i am happy she is having at least one litter even if it wasnt done the right way!! i love my animals to bits there part of our family!! and altou im happy about this litter she wont be having anymore garden parties with the local boys


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

Angeli said:


> Speaking for myself here, I dont agree with all the indiscriminate breeding of moggies as there as just too many being bred for the wrong reasons. Its interesting to see that the number of moggy litters being born far out number the pedigrees.


Yes that is true, but against that you have the fact that the great majority of cat owners in this country own non-pedigrees (unlike with dogs). If we as breeders start complaining about moggy owners breeding their kittens, well, we are going to get at least as many complaints back, that's all.

Liz


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## gerisdolly (May 20, 2009)

yes we all love kittens but it is not just cat flu you have to worry about there are lots of things ear mites fleas cats aids clamidia ect all are transmitted buy outdoor cats and some do not have any signs so how would you tell we do not want to stop you but make you aware of the dangers..as a breeder my cats dont go out they are put to my studs and if I need a stud I am very fussy all im saying is you be fussy to get the test done make sure shes wormed before hand make sure the boy has not got fleas or earmites and one thing you didnt think of is the blood groups..as a moggy im not sure if they are As..or can be Bs..this would have a inpack on your litter good luck and i am here if you need advice ger ..breeders have a lot to think about please understand this and be prepared in advance...:yesnod:


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

gerisdolly said:


> you have to worry about there are lots of things ear mites fleas cats aids clamidia ect all are transmitted buy outdoor cats and some do not have any signs so how would you tell we do not want to stop you but make you aware of the dangers..as a breeder my cats dont go out they are put to my studs and if I need a stud I am very fussy all im saying is you be fussy to get the test done make sure shes wormed before hand make sure the boy has not got fleas or earmites and one thing you didnt think of is the blood groups..as a moggy im not sure if they are As..or can be Bs..this would have a inpack on your litter


Well, with the exception of FIV ("cats aids") all those things are easily treated. And there is not one single recorded case of FIV being caught through mating, it isn't sexually transmitted in cats. Cats have been breeding at random without problems for thousands of years! The issue really is one of population, and as far as i can see, that is the only issue. Blood group B is uncommon in cats and is restricted to certain pedigree breeds. The chances of that being a problem in a moggy mating are very low indeed.

I am all for discouraging over-production of moggy kittens. I just don't think scaremongering helps, that's all.

Liz


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## alyc (Mar 21, 2009)

lizward said:


> To be fair, the chances of catching anythign from the tom are extremely low. There is no recorded case of FIV being spread by sexual contact so it would have to be a fight. FeLV can be vaccinated against and the vaccine is very effective, and anything related to cat flu or ringworm can just as easily be caught from ANY cat. The risk of death in the road is higher unless the area is very safe.
> 
> I think we have a rather odd attitude on this board, to be honest, Many people start climbing walls at the very idea of a moggy having kittens, but when people post up about their pregnant moggies or their moggies giving birth we all start cooing over the kittens and saying how wonderful it is. That's a bit inconsistent, isn't it?
> 
> Liz


actually im inclined to agree!!!
my tia is a pedigree, shes a british shorthair and gorgeous with it!!! however i dont see her as any more special than the other cat we have, Treacle who is a tortie moggie.
treacle is spayed as she goes outdoors and shes 9 now. when we got her we didnt want kittens so she was spayed, but thats not to say that treacle kittens are worth any less than tias.. ( i know in money terms, i can get more for tias) Both are now indoor cats and happy with it, tia has never been outside as she is entire, however Treacle made the choice to be an indoor cat, she just stopped going outside.

i do feel on this board we are anti-moggie, which i dont think is overally fair. yes there ARE lots of unwanted kittens, but SOME of these are pegigree. just because a cat is a pedigree doesnt mean it is wanted anymore than a moggie kitten.... if ppl are gonig to treat animals badley/abandon them/not look after them.... i honestly dont think they care whether they are pedigree or not....

i think all kittens are gorgeous... i mean treacle was a total fluffball when we got her.. so so scrummy, but i wouldnt say tia was any better than her when she was...

im rambling now, i know ppl are entitled to their own views, and im very supportive of that, however im of the view that kittens are kittens and i think they are gorgeous and worth it whatever their parentage. 
And also its not like the original poster is just shoving her cat out to get pregnant, she does seem to love her cat and care about her, and in all honesty, the last (or one before last) poster is right.... theres more chance of getting run over than catching some of these diseases, and next to none of catching the ones that we vaccinate against.

Also id just like to add i havent meant to offend anyone by this post, im only expressing my views on the matter.


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## Taylorbaby (Jan 10, 2009)

to be fair although they Can catch things outside, so can pedigree cats, it isnt just outside moggies! 

My boy has been going outside for 12 years & before I started breeding I had him tested for Everything just as a precaution & peace of mind for myself, you do something, you do it properly! lol!

He has nothing, got the all clear! The vet actually said 'Im amazed' and said that his immune system is really strong & that outside cats are normally stronger than indoor cats? Just quoting him so Id ont know if thats true.

Cat shows & place with a large amount of cats are often places where cat flu / chlamydia / herpes / etc etc are seen & caught! 
Just quoting a flu website.

I would never let my cat outdoors to be mated by Any old thing, I just couldnt do it I worked to hard and really believe in health testing.

But others Will do it, and although we can moan & say 'dont do it.....' 
They will anyway! You cant Force someone not to open their back door and let the cat out!

So we might as well educate & Give them advice instead and hope they make the right decision in the end.


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

I don't think this board is "anti-moggy" but I think people are just generally very concerned because there are a lot more moggies in rescues than pedigrees. All rescue centres are overflowing with moggies (and yes they are just as lovely - I certainly thought my moggies in the past were on a par with my peds!). The poster who started this thread said she had five homes waiting - I think she only had 2 kittens - if she perhaps decides not to breed again from her girl then potentially three moggies from a rescue could have a loving home.

Having said that at least the person is trying to breed her moggy in a responsible way but I would, as has already been mentioned, try to get the male tested if it is possible.


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## lauren001 (Jun 30, 2008)

ChinaBlue said:


> I don't think this board is "anti-moggy" but I think people are just generally very concerned because there are a lot more moggies in rescues than pedigrees. * All rescue centres are overflowing with moggies* (and yes they are just as lovely - I certainly thought my moggies in the past were on a par with my peds!). The poster who started this thread said she had five homes waiting - I think she only had 2 kittens - if she perhaps decides not to breed again from her girl then potentially three moggies from a rescue could have a loving home.
> 
> Having said that at least the person is trying to breed her moggy in a responsible way but I would, as has already been mentioned, try to get the male tested if it is possible.


Good points.

I am not sure if letting your cat outside to get pregnant is very responsible?


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## NicolaC (Apr 14, 2009)

lauren001 said:


> I am not sure if letting your cat outside to get pregnant is very responsible?


Where exactly did I say I am "letting my cat out to get pregnant?" I said that I am aware there is a risk she can be caught whilst outside............

Fizz litterally climbs the walls inside, I tried my damned hardest to keep her an indoor cat but it proved impossible. I have 2 young children who love the outdoors and if they are in the garden, then I am afraid in this house the door is open.

I am NOT using my cat as some sort of prostitute!!

Thankyou to some of the other posters though. I did approach my neighbour today, the one who I believe is the father, and after a strange look or 2 they have agreed to let us use her cat and are interested to find out more about testing. How do I go about it?


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## Missymoo (May 19, 2009)

NicolaC said:


> Where exactly did I say I am "letting my cat out to get pregnant?" I said that I am aware there is a risk she can be caught whilst outside............
> 
> Fizz litterally climbs the walls inside, I tried my damned hardest to keep her an indoor cat but it proved impossible. I have 2 young children who love the outdoors and if they are in the garden, then I am afraid in this house the door is open.
> 
> ...


Dont worry chick!! it doesnt matter what others think anyway!! you sound like you love and look after your cat very well and thats what matters!! heres to a happy healthy pregnancy for your kitty!!


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