# Showing after neutering



## BSH

I shall be having both of my cats neutred later in the year. One is male, one female.

I have been advised by some people at the last show I went to, to wait as long as possible with my boy BSH so that his BSH face develops before I have him castrated. I am happy to do this. He is an indoor cat so wandering is not an issue. But obviously spraying is! So I have some questions:

What time frame after neutering should I give before allowing him to enter a show again?

The longer I delay the op, is it more likely he will continue to spray as an adult neuter? 

My BSH girl will be speyed when she is 6 months old. This is what is recommended by the breeder and my vet.

How long will it take for her fur to grow back to a standard where she could be shown again? I know most vets operate via a loin incision, so a significant amout of hair is shaved off. She is 6 months old at the end of October. I intended to enter her at the National on 11 December and/or the West Country Show mid-January. Obviously I do not want to enter her and then loose the entry fee because she is still bald! Any opinions?

Thanks.


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## Tje

MY two BSH girls, one I had from kitten, she was neutered at 9 months old, the other one came from my breeder friend and had a litter of kittens, she was neutered at 2½ years old. I see no difference in how these two have developed. They both look the same. Incidentally though, 2 friends of mine who both breed BSHs both recommend neutering females closer to the 9 months than the 6 months, they both say its because as a breed the BSH matures slowly. So that does differ from the advice your breeder is giving you. I wouldnt pay that much attention to the vet (on this one issue, lol) when it comes to breeds and their different rates of maturity, I think the breeders within that breed know a lot more than the vets do.

My male, I waited with him literally until he sprayed once. Then I got him done two days later. He was just over 9 months old at that point. And he did mature a lot in those 3 months. I am so happy I didnt get him done at 6 months. Although he didnt have the big jowls a complete BSH male has, he looked a lot more like that than his brother who was neutered at 5½ months  he did really fill out between the age of 6 and 9 months. 

I cant really help you with the showing, as I have never shown mine. But you dont have to wait till after the neuter to show them, you could start now. I find the judges judging the kittens to be that much more forgiving than when they are judging mature cats. It also seems a great way to get them used to shows. 

ohhhh and the best of luck showing your pair!!!! I love going to shows. I hope your kitties enjoy the whole show experience!!


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## BSH

Thanks Tje. That's helpful.

Mine have already been to a show and we had a great day. There are pictures on my profile of them there. We are off to another soon 

Talking of big jowls, this is one stunning Blue BSH:

Male Cat Neutering | VetBlog - The Web Magazine For Pet Owners

I think my Darwin may get that big...he is 2.6 Kg at 20 weeks!


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## carolmanycats

We don't have British but do have Selkirk Rex with, obviously, a fair amount of British in their pedigrees. One was early neutered by the breeder at 14 weeks and, although I didn't think so at one time, I do have to say that he is the lightest of the 3 boys, despite being the largest in stature and I DO think it has affected his development.

The other 2 we neutered at 11 months and 16 months (both with the breeders' blessings), the one at 11 months has more Pesian than British in him and was never a problem before or after, never sprayed or anything. The other we left to 16 months to try to get him to champion first, as the breed only gained Champ status from June 2009 he was 14 months old before he could win his first CC. We were lucky in that he never sprayed but he did develop a habit of weeing on chairs and beds. We coped by covering chairs with waterproof coverings whern we weren't around and banning him from the bedrooms. He entered his first show as a neuter 2 1/2 months after being neutered and stopped his inappropriate weeing about 8 months after being neutered.

Their sister we got to Grand Champion before neutering and she was neutered in late June this year at 14 months old. We are very lucky in that one of our vets is a brilliant cat vet and she did the minimum amount of shaving and a tiny incision that took just one stitch. (Photo attached) The fur is growing well and we have entered her in a show at the very end of this month so that is 3 months after the op. I doubt the fur will be fully back as she is a LH Selkirk but I feel that at PC level it will certainly be back enough not to be marked down as it is very obvious from where it is, what it is.

Hope that helps

Carol


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## Tje

BSH said:


> Talking of big jowls, this is one stunning Blue BSH:


Lovely cat!!!! Tho the angle the pic is taken makes him look HUGE, lol. It's my 20 odd year long dream to own a British Blue complete male (well, a retired stud) with the whole imposing face and massive big jowls and neck like a horse. All going well when my friend's boy retires he will come to us. Mind you... still about 2 years to go, he is only 2 and a half years old. But he is Grand Champion already and he is OH SO gorgeous!

I am definitely happy that I gave my boy those extra few months to mature, it did make a big difference to him (appearance wise).

I will go now and have a nosey in your profile, lol.


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## BSH

Thanks Carol.

Your experience certainly adds weight to the argument to leave his castration for as long as possible. Though I could not cope with the inappropriate weeing! Any sign of that and he will be hot footing it to the vets! 

I shall be seeing his breeder in a couple of weeks so I shall discuss with her how long she thinks we should wait. I only intend to show them as neuters once they get too old for the kitten classes.

So her hair should be re-grown in 4 weeks being a shorthair? I shall ask the vets if they can do as small an incision as is practically possible.


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## Tje

awwwww they are two gorgeous cats!! :thumbup: Same colours as my two, except my current two are both ladies. I am no expert in breeding or showing (far from it, have never bred or showed... so don't take my advice with a _pinch_ of salt, take it with a _bucket load_, lol) but don't be in a rush to get Darwin done. I am quite sure I am right in saying the longer you leave him the more he will develop -- and the more he develops the lovlier he will become. Although you do have to balance that with the risk of spraying.... but.... if what I hear from my BSH breeder friends is right, they are notoriously late bloomers, so chances are your Darwin won't even think of spraying before 9 months old. And like Carol said... often it isn't that big an issue. Though I did run to the vet when my boy started, lol. But I never planned to show. I think if I had planned to show I would have "played it by ear" a bit more.


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## BSH

Thanks. Though biased, I agree they are gorgeous and have fantastic temprements. too


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## carolmanycats

Spraying I am not sure we could/would have coped with but the weeing on chairs etc was easily sorted and managed for the comparatively short time it took.

As Tiff has taken 3 mionths almost to get to an acceptable, if not yet full, level of fur then I would hope that maybe 2 months tops would do for a SH?? And maybe as well the later in the year it is done the quicker it will grow in time for winter???


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## Biawhiska

my siamese girls have taken about 2 months to grow back


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## BSH

Biawhiska said:


> my siamese girls have taken about 2 months to grow back


Thank you. Longer than I expected. I wonder if they can do it without shaving the fur? We do not shave humans pre-operatively these days, but then again, they have less fur (usually).


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## carolmanycats

They will have to shave at least some fur to minimize the risk of infection, how much or how little depends on the skill of your vet. Most vets also shave for blood tests etc, the one of ours who did the spay on Tiffany that I posted the picture of, can take blood wthout shaving so I doubt that many, if any, vets could spay with less shaving than she did.

Carol


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## BSH

carolmanycats said:


> They will have to shave at least some fur to minimize the risk of infection


In human medicine we have found this not to be the case.



> the evidence finds no difference in SSIs (surgical site infections) among patients who have had hair removed prior to surgery and those who have not. If it is necessary to remove hair then both clipping and depilatory creams results in fewer SSIs than shaving using a razor. There is no difference in SSIs when patients are shaved or clipped one day before surgery or on the day of surgery


Preoperative hair removal to reduce surgical site infection
Source: J Tanner, D Woodings, K Moncaster - Cochrane Database Syst Rev, 2006

I may send the paper to my vet. Maybe Willow can be the first cat speyed without being shaven?


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## messyhearts

Judges will take into account lack of hair due to neutering in young adult cats in neuter or kitten classes. I really wouldn't worry about it affecting showing. Only concern would be to make sure she is healed before being taken as there can be some nasty bugs about at shows.


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## BSH

messyhearts said:


> Judges will take into account lack of hair due to neutering in young adult cats in neuter or kitten classes. I really wouldn't worry about it affecting showing. Only concern would be to make sure she is healed before being taken as there can be some nasty bugs about at shows.


Thank you. Well the last show I have entered them into is in October and they will not be 6 months old until the end of October. I am certaily willing to wait longer if the breeders agree, so I shall discuss it with them when i see them.

As neutering seems to affect the appearance of the males more than the females from what people have said, I shall get my girl speyed first and allow my boy to mature on a bit. He is turning into a chunky lad already and has put on quite a bit of weight in the last couple of weeks.

Thanks for your comments & advice everyone


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## Pippin

My breeder has advised me to tell the vet I need her (my female BSH) to have a midline (I presume this means shave and cut). She said it is slightly more work operarting but any good vet will agree to do it but may charge slightly more as it's a bit more work. She also said to ask them not to shave her paw (is that to take blood?) as they should be able to do it without shaving it.


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## messyhearts

Midline is when they lie the cat on their back & cut them down their abdomen/tummy. Flank is when they lie them on their side & cut in on their side. 

Vets should be able to draw blood by wetting the fur instead of shaving. I didn't know any of this & my vet did a midline & minimal shaving for her spay (none on her legs). She had an operation a month ago & this time the vet took blood from two places & shaved nearly all her underside & it is really struggling to grow back! Though she is a semi-long hair & a mature one at that.


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## Pippin

Thanks for clarifying that messyhearts


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## marshal12

Hello,
In the US, each judge has a separate ring with cages. The cats are brought up to the judge, who removes each cat in turn and then replaces them when they are done. Spectators, including the owners of the cats are present and in the audience. The cats' owners are given a number for each cat and are responsible for getting them to the ring when they are called.


thanks!!


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## BSH

I found the following advice from Ursula Graves (Sargenta British Shorthairs) who is a top breeder of Silver BSHs, on her website home_frame



> *Neutering and spaying*
> 
> This is absolutely essential for any animal not used for breeding and is best done between the ages of six to nine months. *A British Male can usually wait a little longer depending upon the time of year and development of the cat. Neutering too early can stop the development of that nice big head a British cat should have.* Remember though, that an un-neutered Tom can be a menace. He will wander off, get into fights and mark his territory. You might not notice the smell, but everyone else will! It is equally cruel to keep an un-spayed female, unless you wish to breed from her. A calling queen will wear herself down, lose a lot of weight and become thoroughly frustrated.


This would back up what has already been said on this thread :thumbup:


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## BSH

Just to update this...just in case you were interested 

I had my female cat, Willow, neutered today. She is just a few days off 6 months and we decided it was better safe than sorry having a boy in the house. My boy, Darwin, will have his "man berries" removed when he is older and more mature.

The vet did a great job. A small midline incision with only the minimal amout of hair shaven off her abdomen. And there is no hair shaven from her leg where the the intravenous cannula was inserted. Dissolvable stitches too.

Excellent job. And only £54.

I can not believe how well she has recovered from the GA too.

She should be all recovered by the time her next show comes around.


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## Tje

Hey BSH, great news about your girl. And I think your male will be the bonnier for waiting that wee bit longer for his man-berry-ectomy. I am sooooo glad my advice didnt clash with Mrs Graves, lol. (Shes a lovely lady, I had the pleasure to speak at length on the phone with her earlier this year and she helped me a lot. Her cats are out of this world gorgeous!! I had to stop looking at her website as it was just making me drool too much!)


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## Pippin

I'm so glad Willow is recovering well and it's great that your vet has done such a great job. Out of interest was your vet happy to do a midline incision and not shave her leg? I need to get my female BSH Millie neutered in the next couple of months and am hoping our vets are happy to do a midline.


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## BSH

Tje said:


> Hey BSH, great news about your girl. And I think your male will be the bonnier for waiting that wee bit longer for his man-berry-ectomy. I am sooooo glad my advice didnt clash with Mrs Graves, lol. (Shes a lovely lady, I had the pleasure to speak at length on the phone with her earlier this year and she helped me a lot. Her cats are out of this world gorgeous!! I had to stop looking at her website as it was just making me drool too much!)


Thanks Tje. Ursula Graves' (Sargenta) cats are indeed fantastic. My Willow has a lot of Sargenta in her line. Her Sire is an Imperial Grand Champion Sargenta & her Dam is half-Sargenta too  That's partly why she is dropdeadgorgeous, not that I am biased


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## BSH

Pippin said:


> I'm so glad Willow is recovering well and it's great that your vet has done such a great job. Out of interest was your vet happy to do a midline incision and not shave her leg? I need to get my female BSH Millie neutered in the next couple of months and am hoping our vets are happy to do a midline.


My vet (who I only met for the first time today) was quite happy to do a midline incision. He did explain that it was a more complex approach and anaesthesia would be slightly longer compared to the time it took to do a flank approach, but he completely understood my reasons for requesting it. He was well aware her fur could grow back darker over the shaved area and affect her show quality. He took great care to do a small incison and hence only a small shave was required. He clipped a couple of hairs with scissors on her foreleg for the IV but I can not see where.

I hope your vet will be as undertsnading for your Millie. Some breeders at the last show I went to said they felt cats recovered from a midline op quicker. I am tending to agree from what i have seen so far.


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## Tje

BSH said:


> Thanks Tje. Ursula Graves' (Sargenta) cats are indeed fantastic. My Willow has a lot of Sargenta in her line. Her Sire is an Imperial Grand Champion Sargenta & her Dam is half-Sargenta too  That's partly why she is dropdeadgorgeous, not that I am biased


.... even here in Holland in the Sargenta name is very well known, as is Mrs Graves'. I was quite shocked how well known Mrs Graves is, even in this country. My silver tabby comes from a top dutch breeder and him and Mrs Graves go way back to the early 80s (he is a judge at shows here and I spoke briefly to him at an easter show) and the foundation stud for his current (very well known line) was a Sargenta.

And heyyyyyy, with a Sargenta, I think you're allowed to be biased


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