# HELP! Dog 47-57 days pregnant



## maciesmomma

I am new to this forum, but I need some advice in the worst way! My dog is breathing super hard from normal. Grunting every time she moves, and can't seem to get comfortable not to mention digging at whatever spot she decides to try to lay down at. Her normal temp is ranges from 101.7-102.1. I checked it yesterday and it was 101.3 it is now 99.5. I am a little worried she maybe going into labor. From what I can gather this is way to early. 

She was in heat around September 25- October 17.
I only witnessed one knot between her and a male on October the 13th, but it is possible that she may have gotten pregnant before then while unsupervised. This is also her first heat. The pregnancy was a complete accident and I feel really bad and stupid for allowing this to happen so please don't tell me how irresponsible I am for allowing it to happen. I already know.

I just need some advice on if she is possibly going in to labor or if I just over worried. I am scared for my poor baby and it breaks my heart to see her like this. I am begging for advice. 

The day that I witnessed the knot was on October the 13th. PLEASE HELP!


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## Guest

Please call your vet and be ready to take her in if necessary. 
Has she been under vet care all along?


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## Honeys mum

Like ouesi said, you must call your vet, and take her to be checked out in case there is anything wrong..You say this is her first season, how old is she.


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## Sled dog hotel

maciesmomma said:


> I am new to this forum, but I need some advice in the worst way! My dog is breathing super hard from normal. Grunting every time she moves, and can't seem to get comfortable not to mention digging at whatever spot she decides to try to lay down at. Her normal temp is ranges from 101.7-102.1. I checked it yesterday and it was 101.3 it is now 99.5. I am a little worried she maybe going into labor. From what I can gather this is way to early.
> 
> She was in heat around September 25- October 17.
> I only witnessed one knot between her and a male on October the 13th, but it is possible that she may have gotten pregnant before then while unsupervised. This is also her first heat. The pregnancy was a complete accident and I feel really bad and stupid for allowing this to happen so please don't tell me how irresponsible I am for allowing it to happen. I already know.
> 
> I just need some advice on if she is possibly going in to labor or if I just over worried. I am scared for my poor baby and it breaks my heart to see her like this. I am begging for advice.
> 
> The day that I witnessed the knot was on October the 13th. PLEASE HELP!


Gestation is usually about 62/63 days on average so if you think she may be up to 57 days then shes not so far off so possible. Usually when they are due to whelp then the temp will drop to 99 degrees or lower from the usual 100 to 102.5. Perfect textbook 24 hours after the drop she should enter first stage of labour when her cervix will open in readiness for the pups, they will pant and be restless during this stage and strain, then next stage you will get strong abdominal straining and the puppies should be passed with the placentas.

Often a few days before any of this starts they can go off food and start nesting. So she is showing all the possible signs. Especially as you don't know if she could have mated before you saw the actual tie you know of, and it seems that you are even a bit vague on the actual season start date and duration too.

If its her first heat then I assume she is only between 6 months and a year or not much more, so shes still a pup herself mentally and physically. How big is she and how big is the male you know of, that could be a big factor for possible trouble. if it was a large breed or big male and shes a lot smaller then that can cause a big problem if the puppies are large too, they can be too big to pass down the birth canal, sometimes they can become badly positioned and get stuck that way. If you think its a big possibility that another dog could have gotten to her that you don't know about even more of a concern.
Im guessing she hasn't been to the vet for any examination or scans to get an idea of how many pups and the size of them and what stage of gestation she may be at?

Short answer if the vet hasn't seen her then nows the time to find out whats going on, as from what you have said it sounds possible and shes exhibiting signs that could be Labour.


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## maciesmomma

Thank you all for the great advice. I took my Macie Ann to the vet Saturday morning and he said everything is great. I told him that I had witnessed a tie between Macie and the neighbors dog on the 13th of October which had put her at 47 days by my calculations (now 49 days). 

From what we could see on the xray she has 4 pups and they all look good. She is a small/medium size dog (weighing 40 pounds) and her mate was a medium size dog (weighing about 60-70 pounds). The puppies don't appear to be to big right now. 

She will be 1 year old on January the 9th. I was vague about the dates she was in heat because I am not exactly sure of the dates because I had no plans on her getting pregnant. 

The vet also said that we should expect puppies anywhere for 60-65 days that she appears to be having a normal pregnancy and he had no reason to believe that she would be going to have her pups early or any complications.

Again I appreciate all of the feed back thank you all so much! I will try to keep you all updated as we make this journey through our fur babies pregnancy. 

I can't figure out how to attach pictures or I would. However, my pictures is of her.


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## rocco33

maciesmomma said:


> Thank you all for the great advice. I took my Macie Ann to the vet Saturday morning and he said everything is great. I told him that I had witnessed a tie between Macie and the neighbors dog on the 13th of October which had put her at 47 days by my calculations (now 49 days).
> 
> From what we could see on the xray she has 4 pups and they all look good. She is a small/medium size dog (weighing 40 pounds) and her mate was a medium size dog (weighing about 60-70 pounds). The puppies don't appear to be to big right now.
> 
> *She will be 1 year old on January the 9th.* I was vague about the dates she was in heat because I am not exactly sure of the dates because I had no plans on her getting pregnant.
> 
> The vet also said that we should expect puppies anywhere for 60-65 days that she appears to be having a normal pregnancy and he had no reason to believe that she would be going to have her pups early or any complications.
> 
> Again I appreciate all of the feed back thank you all so much! I will try to keep you all updated as we make this journey through our fur babies pregnancy.
> 
> I can't figure out how to attach pictures or I would. However, my pictures is of her.


Jeez - how irresponsible - your poor little bitch isn't even a year old


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## Little-moomin

maciesmomma said:


> Thank you all for the great advice. I took my Macie Ann to the vet Saturday morning and he said everything is great. I told him that I had witnessed a tie between Macie and the neighbors dog on the 13th of October which had put her at 47 days by my calculations (now 49 days).
> 
> From what we could see on the xray she has 4 pups and they all look good. She is a small/medium size dog (weighing 40 pounds) and her mate was a medium size dog (weighing about 60-70 pounds). The puppies don't appear to be to big right now.
> 
> She will be 1 year old on January the 9th. I was vague about the dates she was in heat because I am not exactly sure of the dates because I had no plans on her getting pregnant.
> 
> The vet also said that we should expect puppies anywhere for 60-65 days that she appears to be having a normal pregnancy and he had no reason to believe that she would be going to have her pups early or any complications.
> 
> Again I appreciate all of the feed back thank you all so much! I will try to keep you all updated as we make this journey through our fur babies pregnancy.
> 
> I can't figure out how to attach pictures or I would. However, my pictures is of her.


She's so so young :-( It's like a baby having a baby! I hope you will get her spayed after this litter'?


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## Honeys mum

Oh dear your girl is so young,still a baby herself, so irresponsible of you.
But I do hope she will have a trouble free whelping and that she will be O.K.

Please, please show some responsabilty and have her spayed when she is over this ordeal, and please let us know the outcome.


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## Guest

maciesmomma said:


> Thank you all for the great advice. I took my Macie Ann to the vet Saturday morning and he said everything is great. I told him that I had witnessed a tie between Macie and the neighbors dog on the 13th of October which had put her at 47 days by my calculations (now 49 days).
> 
> From what we could see on the xray she has 4 pups and they all look good. She is a small/medium size dog (weighing 40 pounds) and her mate was a medium size dog (weighing about 60-70 pounds). The puppies don't appear to be to big right now.
> 
> She will be 1 year old on January the 9th. I was vague about the dates she was in heat because I am not exactly sure of the dates because I had no plans on her getting pregnant.
> 
> The vet also said that we should expect puppies anywhere for 60-65 days that she appears to be having a normal pregnancy and he had no reason to believe that she would be going to have her pups early or any complications.
> 
> Again I appreciate all of the feed back thank you all so much! I will try to keep you all updated as we make this journey through our fur babies pregnancy.
> 
> I can't figure out how to attach pictures or I would. However, my pictures is of her.


Was this the first time you took her to the vet?
Did you take her to the vet when you witnessed the tie?
I can't help but think that if a vet had seen her right after the tie he/she would have suggested the mismate shot... Poor puppy, not even through growing herself and trying to grow 4 puppies.

Is there anyone nearby who could mentor you? One of my many worries with a bitch so young is that she will reject the pups. You need to know what to do to best prevent this from happening and how to manage should it happen anyway. Oh... so many worries here


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## maciesmomma

FIRST OF ALL!!!!! "My Poor Bitch" and my "irresponsibility"..... I had already stated in my first post that I knew how irresponsible it was that I didn't need anyone to tell me. 

I had absolutely no intentions for her to get pregnant ever! She had a date set to be spade and unfortunately due to my irresponsibility she got pregnant before it was time for the appointment. As far as the mismate shot our vets around here do not have these and will not do emergency spay due to it being illegal here. 

DON'T JUDGE ME!!!!! I will admit that I was uneducated about the "heat cycle". I thought when she stopped bleeding it was over and she could no longer get pregnant and my stupidity. 

I went out with her that morning because we have a large yard and I sip coffee while she plays. She did her business and then took off flying to the neighbors, which isn't like her. I yelled and went after her but, by the time I got there it was to late they where already tied. I did however know (from a breeder friend of a Great Dane) that when 2 dogs are tied you should never try to separate them. 

I didn't ask you all to tell me how stupid I am or anything to that nature I simply asked for advice because I was scared. I guess I have learned my lesson now as it seems the only advice that I am getting now is that I am irresponsible and pretty much an idiot. 

THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE HELP! Cause I am sure none of you have never screwed up!


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## Taylorbaby

maciesmomma said:


> FIRST OF ALL!!!!! "My Poor Bitch" and my "irresponsibility"..... I had already stated in my first post that I knew how irresponsible it was that I didn't need anyone to tell me.
> 
> I had absolutely no intentions for her to get pregnant ever! She had a date set to be spade and unfortunately due to my irresponsibility she got pregnant before it was time for the appointment. As far as the mismate shot our vets around here do not have these and will not do *emergency spay due to it being illegal here. *
> DON'T JUDGE ME!!!!! I will admit that I was uneducated about the "heat cycle". I thought when she stopped bleeding it was over and she could no longer get pregnant and my stupidity.
> 
> I went out with her that morning because we have a large yard and I sip coffee while she plays. She did her business and then took off flying to the neighbors, which isn't like her. I yelled and went after her but, by the time I got there it was to late they where already tied. I did however know (from a breeder friend of a Great Dane) that when 2 dogs are tied you should never try to separate them.
> 
> I didn't ask you all to tell me how stupid I am or anything to that nature I simply asked for advice because I was scared. I guess I have learned my lesson now as it seems the only advice that I am getting now is that I am irresponsible and pretty much an idiot.
> 
> THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE HELP! Cause I am sure none of you have never screwed up!


But no pups existed for ages after the tie, it wouldn't have been a emerge, just a normal spay...


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## maciesmomma

I didn't know that. I was only told that they wouldn't do it if a dog was pregnant and judging from her x-ray she got pregnant the day that they tied. 

HOWEVER I FOGOT TO SAY BEFORE THAT SHE WILL BE SPADED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!!


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## Guest

Well my curiosity is piqued. 
Where do you live that an emergency spay is illegal?
What happens to a bitch with pyo?


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## Blitz

Taylorbaby said:


> But no pups existed for ages after the tie, it wouldn't have been a emerge, just a normal spay...


It would not be a normal spay straight after a season, it would be a very high risk one. I have never known a vet that will spay a pregnant bitch.


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## PBR1

The fact is that when you post on a public forum there will be people who have a different view from you and they will express it whether you want it or not
Whilst you may claim to have been ignorant of how your dog could get caught you should have researched it properly when you decided to have a female dog or when it occurred you could have taken action to prevent the pregnancy. People make mistakes but it's how you deal with the aftermath that is often most telling.
You should have taken your dog to the vet the day you witnessed the tie to terminate the pregnancy


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## rocco33

maciesmomma said:


> I didn't know that. I was only told that they wouldn't do it if a dog was pregnant and judging from her x-ray she got pregnant the day that they tied.
> 
> HOWEVER I FOGOT TO SAY BEFORE THAT SHE WILL BE SPADED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!!


Implantation doesn't happen until 2 -3 weeks AFTER mating so she wouldn't have been pregnant then.

Where do you live that an emergency spay is illegal?

It may have been an accident (albeit irresponsible one) but you knew they had mated and had plenty of time to research - how come you didn't come on the forum then and ask questions?

And funny how you didn't bother questioning the vet until she was, by your calculations 49 days! sorry, but we've heard it all before. No wonder the vet didn't want to spay her at 49 days pregnant!



> hank you all for the great advice. I took my Macie Ann to the vet Saturday morning and he said everything is great. I told him that I had witnessed a tie between Macie and the neighbors dog on the 13th of October which had put her at 47 days by my calculations (now 49 days).


This sort of 'accident' is bad enough in a mature bitch but yours is still a puppy!

And you left it until 49 days to do anything about it having witness the mating. Sorry, but it is not just the mating that is and accident, there was plenty you could have done after the mating but you chose not to do it.


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## Honeys mum

Sorry but agree with everything rocco33 and others have said.

There is no excuse having witnessed the mating and not doing anything about it.
Instead you decided to allow your dog who is still a puppy herself to become a mum, which is totally unaceptable and irresponsable of you when you could have easily taken her to the vet to terminate the pregancy, shame on you.

I do hope your poor girl gets through this ordeal.


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## lorilu

Wow. This is worse even than the cat section. 

The OP admitted his/her knowledge of irresponsibility in the first post. It's not like this person is defending her action or inaction, which is what we usually see, and in those cases I can be as rough as anyone. But that's not the case here.

The thing is, there are still people who don't know everything. I never heard of the "mismate jab" until I read about it in this forum. I didn't know dogs take several weeks to become pregnant after a mating. I didn't know dogs are fertile longer than the heat appears to be going on. And I read this forum every day. Not everyone is an expert.

She wasn't planning on breeding her girl. She was planning to have her spayed. With all the hype about waiting to spay until maturity (in dogs), if ever, you can't blame someone for waiting.

This person already knows she goofed. What she doesn't know, or didn't know, is all the information being flung at her now. Now she does.

She's not arguing with you about her responsibility in all this. Why not help the owner help the dog. Geesh.


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## maciesmomma

I am trying to remember all the questions that I just read!

#1: I live in KY in a small town where it is in fact illegal to spay a pregnant dog.
#2: I came to you all for advice not to jump all over me and make me feel worse about the situation.
#3: I only found this forum a few nights ago when I was *RESEARCHING * trying to find information on the situation as I have don pretty much everyday for 49 day now.
#4: HOW could it take weeks for her to actually become pregnant when the vet said that my 47 day estimate was right on the money?

I have never once tried to say that what happened with my girl wasn't wrong or whatever.

If you don't want to give advice and only want to hound me and make me feel worse then please don't say anything at all.

I wasn't sure how to handle the labor or if it was in fact happening early so I came to you all for advice, However, my vet was very supportive and understanding. I GUESS BECAUSE HE HAS SEEN HER REGULARLY SINCE I GOT HER AT 6 WEEKS OLD!!!!!!!!

BTW do you all realize how long it takes a dog to start showing pregnancy signs as in weight gain enlarging glands? I honestly wasn't even sure if she was pregnant but, already had knowledge to the laws around here because a friend of mine had a stray get in the kennel with her pitbull and mate. She wanted the mismate shot and they don't offer it in this area. Since, the no spay to pregnant dogs is a law here almost everyone knows about it.

What is done is done. I asked for help and advice but, clearly you all are more interested in having someone to bitch at and tell them how irresponsible they are. THANKS!


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## Guest

maciesmomma said:


> #1: I live in KY in a small town where it is in fact illegal to spay a pregnant dog.


Kentucky USA?
No way...


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## Guest

Blitz said:


> It would not be a normal spay straight after a season, it would be a very high risk one. I have never known a vet that will spay a pregnant bitch.


A lot of vets wont because of the increased risk of bleeding.

But unfortunately, a lot of vets - especially those who offer their services to shelters and rescues, have lots of experience spaying pregnant and in-heat bitches and are very successful doing it safely. My own vet is one of them.

Here in the US, and particularly in the southern states (like KY), it is not at all uncommon for a vets to spay pregnant bitches. Its a horrible, sucky thing to have to do, especially when the owners are not accurate with dates, but its also a horrible, sucky thing to have to PTS so many lovely, healthy pets for lack of space. Its a lose lose 

But my point is, pregnant spays are not unusual this side of the pond. And certainly not illegal.


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## Guest

lorilu said:


> Wow. This is worse even than the cat section.
> 
> The OP admitted his/her knowledge of irresponsibility in the first post. It's not like this person is defending her action or inaction, which is what we usually see, and in those cases I can be as rough as anyone. But that's not the case here.
> 
> The thing is, there are still people who don't know everything. I never heard of the "mismate jab" until I read about it in this forum. I didn't know dogs take several weeks to become pregnant after a mating. I didn't know dogs are fertile longer than the heat appears to be going on. And I read this forum every day. Not everyone is an expert.
> 
> She wasn't planning on breeding her girl. She was planning to have her spayed. With all the hype about waiting to spay until maturity (in dogs), if ever, you can't blame someone for waiting.
> 
> This person already knows she goofed. What she doesn't know, or didn't know, is all the information being flung at her now. Now she does.
> 
> She's not arguing with you about her responsibility in all this. Why not help the owner help the dog. Geesh.


Because its hard to help someone whos not giving honest answers.
I hate to be such a cynic, but Im with rocco33, heard it all, and this is sounding way too familiar along with the stench of BS.

First off, we still dont have a clear answer to did the puppy go to the vet right after you witnessed the tie but instead a general statement of she has been under vet care since I got her at 6 weeks. Hrm...

But the real kicker is this law that it is illegal to spay a pregnant bitch. Actually, it was first presented as emergency spays are illegal uh huh...

Now its illegal to spay a pregnant bitch in this small KY town. Right...
Lets think about that just for one second. Does anyone really think that shelters throughout KY are doing ultrasounds on strays to check for puppies before they spay? Never mind the owners who often have no clue their dog is pregnant when they bring them in for a routine spay. Or what about the bitch who has a silent heat, get caught, goes in for a spay? Its ludicrous. 
Ill be happy to eat crow if someone shows me the actual legislature indicating that this is indeed a law on the books, but something tells me Im going to remain vegetarian for some time. 

Im sorry, I just get so fed up with folks whos primary concern should be their animal but are more concerned with protecting their ego to a bunch of total strangers than doing right by their dog. Youre a better person than me lorilu, because my compassion-o-meter takes a nosedive in this sort of situation. 
I have no problem with genuine ignorance. There is no shame in not knowing and doing better once you know better. But I have no patience for lying and trying to play forum members for fools.

I wish this poor bitch the best. I hope she has a totally uncomplicated pregnancy and whelping and that the pups end up in good homes. But I just cant help but feel frustrated and saddened by the whole thing.


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## lorilu

Nah I'm not a better or more trusting person than you or anyone else. I usually am coming down as hard as anyone over people and their "oops" litters, but for some reason it didn't seem called for in this situation. I could be wrong of course and when stories start changing or untruths surface, or contradictions suddenly arise, my hackles go up too.

There are some very...backward, isolated communities still, even in the USA. When I see someone say "spaded" instead of spayed, for instance, I figure there may be a....an honest lack of knowledge and understanding.

But I could be wrong. It does happen.


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## gskinner123

ouesi said:


> Kentucky USA?
> No way...


Would seem so. The Kentucky Humane Society pre-spay owner/agreement itself states that if the animal is found to be pregnant that the pregnancy will be terminated.


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## Guest

lorilu said:


> Nah I'm not a better or more trusting person than you or anyone else. I usually am coming down as hard as anyone over people and their "oops" litters, but for some reason it didn't seem called for in this situation. I could be wrong of course and when stories start changing or untruths surface, or contradictions suddenly arise, my hackles go up too.
> 
> There are some very...backward, isolated communities still, even in the USA. When I see someone say "spaded" instead of spayed, for instance, I figure there may be a....an honest lack of knowledge and understanding.
> 
> But I could be wrong. It does happen.


Ouch...
Backwards? Because theyre in KY and cant spell spayed right?

Suffice it to say, I dont think OP is lacking in understanding...


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## Guest

gskinner123 said:


> Would seem so. The Kentucky Humane Society pre-spay owner/agreement itself states that if the animal is found to be pregnant that the pregnancy will be terminated.


KY humane society website? Yeah. And what part of that says it is illegal to spay a pregnant bitch?


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## lorilu

"Spaded" isn't usually a spelling error, it is a word error. They aren't mistyping usually, they simply don't know the correct term. The ignorance in the world about animals is astounding. The person could have been told pregnant spay is illegal and simply believed it without question. 

However, re-reading the thread I can see what you are seeing.


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## gskinner123

ouesi said:


> KY humane society website? Yeah. And what part of that says it is illegal to spay a pregnant bitch?


I worded my post poorly - I was agreeing with you. Kentucky Humane Society's spay consent form states what I'd mentioned above so it would not seem to be true that spaying a pregnant bitch is illegal in that state.

ETA, the thing I hate most about these kind of threads is when the owner descends into lies to try and defend their position.


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## Blaise in Surrey

I think what worries me about new questioners (and sometimes established ones ) being jumped on is that the end result may well be that the opportunity to help an animal is missed.


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## Guest

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> I think what worries me about new questioners (and sometimes established ones ) being jumped on is that the end result may well be that the opportunity to help an animal is missed.


What opportunity was missed? The bitch needs to see a vet - which was indeed the first suggestion by several posters, and what the OP says she did.


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## maciesmomma

ouesi said:


> Kentucky USA?
> No way...


Yep....that's the one. Kentucky in the USA!


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## maciesmomma

Wow you guys! Just wow! I am completely dumbfounded here. You all must have had a lot of people get on here and try to lead you to believe lies when I have told the truth to all of you from the beginning. 

I didn't answer the question of is I had taken her to the vet when I first witnessed the tie because if you hadn't noticed I kind of got over taken by rhetorical questions or so it would seem they are rhetorical since you all know all the answers to the questions before I ever ask.

NO I didn't take her to the vet. 

NOW you can jump on to me some more tell me how much I am stupid and irresponsible and ignorant I am. 

This is the first time that I have ever had anything like this happen. I have always had my animals "spayed". Forget it. I am done with you all "helping" or should I say not helping. This is and was a complete waste of my time. I came here asking for advice and instead I got ridiculed and put down. 

I was worried about my dog contrary to your beliefs and as soon as my vet was open on a Saturday (which he does once a month for emergency purposes) because the closest appointment he had open was over a month away I took her in. 

I understand that you are all defencive because others have tried to pull the wool over your eyes and pretend to be all sweet and innocent. That was never my case from day one. I tried to be up front and honest and it got me no where. 

As for KY laws. Here in our town it is also legal to call a woman a slut if she has 3 kids with 3 different men and not the not be able to file charges of slander. It is illegal to spit within 20 foot of a grave it or the courthouse. LOOK THOSE LAWS UP TOO!!!!! I bet you don't find them either and I have no way to prove that they are real. Had I thought that I would have to defend the TRUTH I would have taken a picture of her x-ray when I took her to the vet for you all to see. I would have went to courthouse gotten a copy of our "backwards" laws and posted them as well. Either way it goes I know what happened was wrong and I haven't felt the need to do this because I AM NOT DEFENDING MYSELF IN ALL THIS! I am still only asking for help. 

As I said before you all are interested in helping anyone....You're only interested in jumping on to them!


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## ClaireandDaisy

I see the bridge is busy today. All them goats.....


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## Guest

maciesmomma said:


> NO I didn't take her to the vet.


You saw your puppy tied with a larger dog and it didn't even occur to you to call the vet? 
Nor was it at this point that you bothered to go to the trouble to research and join a forum to ask for advice.
But once you knew your pup was pregnant, you did go through the trouble to ask for advice. 
Can you explain what you were thinking? Because if I could get a better window in to that kind of mentality, I think I could do a lot better job helping people and their dogs...



maciesmomma said:


> I was worried about my dog contrary to your beliefs and as soon as my vet was open on a Saturday (which he does once a month for emergency purposes) because the closest appointment he had open was over a month away I took her in.


It took you 47 days and joining a forum where you were told to take your dog to the vet to start worrying?



maciesmomma said:


> As for KY laws. Here in our town it is also legal to call a woman a slut if she has 3 kids with 3 different men and not the not be able to file charges of slander. It is illegal to spit within 20 foot of a grave it or the courthouse. LOOK THOSE LAWS UP TOO!!!!! I bet you don't find them either and I have no way to prove that they are real. Had I thought that I would have to defend the TRUTH I would have taken a picture of her x-ray when I took her to the vet for you all to see. I would have went to courthouse gotten a copy of our "backwards" laws and posted them as well. Either way it goes I know what happened was wrong and I haven't felt the need to do this because I AM NOT DEFENDING MYSELF IN ALL THIS! I am still only asking for help.


Just FYI, typing in all caps online is the equivalent of yelling and considered pretty rude.

I know there are some crazy laws on the books all over the place, but if you're going to assert that a law exists, it has to actually exist. In other words, it is on the books and you can look it up.

But let's go for a minute with your story. (Setting aside the whole problem of how the vet would even know the bitch was in early pregnancy before performing a spay). Let's say it is in fact illegal in your small town to spay a pregnant bitch. What is stopping you from driving to another town and getting your bitch spayed?

So smokescreen all you want with spitting laws and slut clauses, you're not fooling anyone.

And you did get advice. Take your bitch to the vet, follow his/her advice to the letter, maybe contact your local rescue for advice on how best to home the puppies, maybe even volunteer there for a while so you can see what your "mistake" contributes to, and for heaven's sake grow some humility so you can actually learn from this and do better by your dog and subsequent dogs in the future.


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## Blaise in Surrey

ouesi said:


> What opportunity was missed? The bitch needs to see a vet - which was indeed the first suggestion by several posters, and what the OP says she did.


I was speaking generally Ouesi, rather than about this particular thread .


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## Guest

For anyone else who might be unfamiliar with laws and procedures in the US, many states, including KY, require a dog to be spayed or neutered prior to adoption from shelters and rescues. It is a state law.



> If you adopt a dog or cat from an animal shelter, humane society or rescue organization in Kentucky it should be spayed or neutered prior to release or shortly thereafter. Spaying and neutering prevents reproduction which is a
> contributor for the estimated 200,000 animals left homeless or abandon in the Commonwealth each year.


http://www.kyspayneuter.com/documents/StateACOTrainingManual.pdf

No, there is no prerequisite to check for pregnancy first.

And yes, those zeros are correct. Pisses me off to no end when people contribute to this.


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## LinznMilly

OP, you claim to be telling the truth, but having Googled "Illegal Spay, Kentucky", you're actually more likely to be in violation of the law for keeping the dog entire. 

The only reason an emergency spay might be illegal for your dog in this case, is that she is underage (for which there is an exception) - but that isn't illegal, so far as I can tell, just ill-advised and perhaps at veterinary discretion.

Your girl is so young. She hasn't grown up herself yet! The very last thing she needs are babies herself.

I'm sorry you haven't liked the replies you've received, and I accept that you say yourself that you have been irresponsible in allowing your dog to get caught, but you've been more irresponsible for doing nothing for 47 days. That is unforgivable and inexcusable. Anyone can make a mistake and their dog gets caught. It's how you deal with it afterwards on which we judge (and despite your protests, we are all judged by others, whether we like it or not), and you have sadly fallen short of your duties. It's the fact that you haven't done a thing to stop or prevent this litter that we are condemning, not your initial mistake in letting the dogs tie.


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## maciesmomma

ouesi said:


> You saw your puppy tied with a larger dog and it didn't even occur to you to call the vet?
> Nor was it at this point that you bothered to go to the trouble to research and join a forum to ask for advice.
> But once you knew your pup was pregnant, you did go through the trouble to ask for advice.
> 
> Can you explain what you were thinking? Because if I could get a better window in to that kind of mentality, I think I could do a lot better job helping people and their dogs...
> 
> It took you 47 days and joining a forum where you were told to take your dog to the vet to start worrying?
> 
> previous statement answers this one too!
> 
> Just FYI, typing in all caps online is the equivalent of yelling and considered pretty rude.
> 
> Well your condescending attitude is considered pretty rude as well.
> 
> I know there are some crazy laws on the books all over the place, but if you're going to assert that a law exists, it has to actually exist. In other words, it is on the books and you can look it up.
> 
> But let's go for a minute with your story. (Setting aside the whole problem of how the vet would even know the bitch was in early pregnancy before performing a spay). Let's say it is in fact illegal in your small town to spay a pregnant bitch. What is stopping you from driving to another town and getting your bitch spayed?
> 
> So smokescreen all you want with spitting laws and slut clauses, you're not fooling anyone.
> 
> And you did get advice. Take your bitch to the vet, follow his/her advice to the letter, maybe contact your local rescue for advice on how best to home the puppies, maybe even volunteer there for a while so you can see what your "mistake" contributes to, and for heaven's sake grow some humility so you can actually learn from this and do better by your dog and subsequent dogs in the future.


If u read I called my vet (who had been over booked for months). I took her as soon as they where open for emergency visits. 
How do u know what I did research wise? I have read so freakin much about all this that I am at the point now that I am plan confused because every site tells you something different. One site says that she can have her pups at 53-58 day another one says 60-65 my vet says 63-65 days.
I only found this forum when I was trying to find information about labor signs. That is why I didn't post before now.

Sounds like to me that you are being a jerk and just want something else to pick at.

Would you please stop calling my female dog a bitch. I hate that term and it gets me pretty angry. I guess in my head them making it illegal here... I thought well there has to be a pretty good reason as to why. 
I guess you support abortion too huh?

As for rehoming the puppies I already have that taken care. I have 3 families ready to adopt them. My dog was a stray that I took in. I have volunteered at a local shelter numerous times. I have seen what this dogs go through and how they are put down (considering we aren't a no kill shelter but are working toward becoming one). 
I had already said that she had an appointment to get spayed, however she got pregnant before hand. As soon as she is well enough after having the pups she will be spayed. Like I said I have learned my lesson about forums and asking people for help. Safe to say I have made 2 with all this now. 1st was letting her get pregnant 2nd was coming to you all for advice.


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## Meezey

maciesmomma said:


> As for rehoming the puppies I already have that taken care. I have 3 families ready to adopt them. My dog was a stray that I took in. I have volunteered at a local shelter numerous times. I have seen what this dogs go through and how they are put down (considering we aren't a no kill shelter but are working toward becoming one).
> I had already said that she had an appointment to get spayed, however she got pregnant before hand. As soon as she is well enough after having the pups she will be spayed. Like I said I have learned my lesson about forums and asking people for help. Safe to say I have made 2 with all this now. 1st was letting her get pregnant 2nd was coming to you all for advice.


I've stayed out of this as trying to live by the not my circus not my monkeys kind of thing in life! Deleted because it truly is not my circus and not my monkeys.....................


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## Meezey

maciesmomma said:


> I
> 
> Would you please stop calling my female dog a bitch. I hate that term and it gets me pretty angry. I guess in my head them making it illegal here... I thought well there has to be a pretty good reason as to why.
> I guess you support abortion too huh?


Female dogs are known as bitches, it's nothing insulting about it's what they are called. Dogs are males, bitches are females. Lots of animals have different names for the genders..


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## maciesmomma

Meezey said:


> I've stayed out of this as trying to live by the not my circus not my monkeys kind of thing in life! Deleted because it truly is not my circus and not my monkeys.....................


So this is the last post I am replying too.

I took my dog to the vet when we found her. My vet told me that she was 6 weeks old give or take a few days. I took her to the vet to be vaccinated (which at the time she was to small for anything other then being wormed) and to make sure that she didn't need to be bottle fed because she was so small. As far as knowing the cycle of a female dog... The females that are brought into the shelter are spayed within in 2 days. Unless they are pregnant or believed to be pregnant. If they are believed to be pregnant they then wait 3 to 6 weeks for testing. Once testing is done if they are not pregnant only then do they get spayed ....if they are pregnant... they wait until the pups are born and the mother is healthy again. This is the 2nd time in my life that I have ever seen a dog in heat. I was unaware that even after she had stopped bleeding she would still mate and could get pregnant.

Once, again I have had dogs my entire life and even rescued a few cats from our shelter that was going to be euthanized. All of which have either been spayed or neutered when I got them or I have done so when I got them!

As I said a million times before in no way am I trying to justify what happened. I didn't know when I posted that I would be on trail nor did I know that I would have to tell my life story to everyone.

Hell if I was someone else later on who just stumbled across this forum needing help and seen all the stuff that was posted it safe to say I wouldn't ask for help or advice. This is just as bad as topix..


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## Meezey

maciesmomma said:


> Hell if I was someone else later on who just stumbled across this forum needing help and seen all the stuff that was posted it safe to say I wouldn't ask for help or advice. This is just as bad as topix..


Please read through the 1000's of topics on here 146,997 posts and may you might just get some understanding to why people get so upset and annoyed, it's also surprising ( or not) those who post about opps litters when they aren't really. You'd be surprised those who breed because they want their kids to witness it, those who want just one puppy, those who think their dog is wonderful and they have to have a puppy etc. Sadly most who come on here asking advise when their bitch is about to whelp, again that gets people angry, more so when puppies are having puppies....... It just kinda gets a bit twisted and makes people doubt things when stories change. Maybe people should research things and learn about them and their responsibilities of owning and protecting a dog before coming to forums asking for advise, bit like shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted....


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## maciesmomma

Meezey said:


> Please read through the 1000's of topics on here 146,997 posts and may you might just get some understanding to why people get so upset and annoyed, it's also surprising ( or not) those who post about opps litters when they aren't really. You'd be surprised those who breed because they want their kids to witness it, those who want just one puppy, those who think their dog is wonderful and they have to have a puppy etc. Sadly most who come on here asking advise when their bitch is about to whelp, again that gets people angry, more so when puppies are having puppies....... It just kinda gets a bit twisted and makes people doubt things when stories change. Maybe people should research things and learn about them and their responsibilities of owning and protecting a dog before coming to forums asking for advise, bit like shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted....


Being judged by others isn't what I expected and I to think it is incredibly sad that people would put their dogs through such a thing for their own selfish reasons. People who would do such a thing shouldn't be allowed to have animals. My whole problem with all of this is that I have been a responsible pet owner my whole life and the one time that I screwed up I am persecuted for it. I never had any intentions on ever being in this situation. That is the reason I have always had my dogs fixed. I came to this forum asking for advice because I researched so much ever other site would contradict the last so I figured it would be better to ask people who have been in this situation before and could give me information from personal experience. Not to have stones cast against me.


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## Dogloverlou

You have a bitch - fact. Nothing offensive about that term.

It's a shame you didn't act when you saw your girl tie with a dog. You must have known it could have resulted in pregnancy? So why wasn't alarm bells ringing in your head already. I'd be thinking to myself 'OMG, I have a PUPPY still and she could potentially be pregnant'. For the sake of her welfare I'd have been carting her off to the vet for a mismate jab ASAP. Even if you wasn't aware of the mismate jab you should have contacted your vet and asked for options. 

It sounds to me like you wanted pups to be honest. Obviously what is done is done now and you can only hope for a smooth, trouble free, labour. Please don't just rehome the pups to any Tom, Dick, or Harry either. I suggest you write up spay/neuter contracts for all your puppy owners so history doesn't repeat itself!

Oh, and for what it's worth, this site and it's members are very informative and helpful. But 'breeding' is a hot topic and as Meezey said, we see so many similar posts....some much worse. It's hard to educate people when they don't look for the education beforehand if that makes sense? Like, there is no excuse for unplanned pregnancies really these days with all the info out there as to how to prevent them.


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## rocco33

maciesmomma said:


> Being judged by others isn't what I expected *and I to think it is incredibly sad that people would put their dogs through such a thing for their own selfish reasons.* People who would do such a thing shouldn't be allowed to have animals. My whole problem with all of this is that I have been a responsible pet owner my whole life and the one time that I screwed up I am persecuted for it. I never had any intentions on ever being in this situation. That is the reason I have always had my dogs fixed. I came to this forum asking for advice because I researched so much ever other site would contradict the last so I figured it would be better to ask people who have been in this situation before and could give me information from personal experience. Not to have stones cast against me.


What do you think allowing a 10 month old stray bitch go through a pregnancy is if not selfish! 

As said, it's not just that you allowed her in a position where she got pregnant but you did nothing to stop it. Accidental matings happen. Accidental litters don't - you have made the decision to put your poor puppy though a pregnancy for your own reasons.


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## LinznMilly

maciesmomma said:


> Being judged by others isn't what I expected and I to think it is incredibly sad that people would put their dogs through such a thing for their own selfish reasons. People who would do such a thing shouldn't be allowed to have animals. My whole problem with all of this is that I have been a responsible pet owner my whole life and the one time that I screwed up I am persecuted for it. I never had any intentions on ever being in this situation. That is the reason I have always had my dogs fixed.* I came to this forum asking for advice because I researched so much ever other site would contradict the last so I figured it would be better to ask people who have been in this situation before and could give me information from personal experience. Not to have stones cast against me*.


And, for the umpteenth time, if you'd have come on here immediately after the mating, no stones would have been cast. Stones are being cast because you have allowed this pregnancy to come to term and waited until it was conveniently too late to abort it to "seek advice".

And if you think you've been hard done by already, you really shouldn't have admitted that this little girl was a stray when you found her. Get your tin hat ready.


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## maciesmomma

rocco33 said:


> What do you think allowing a 10 month old stray bitch go through a pregnancy is if not selfish!
> 
> As said, it's not just that you allowed her in a position where she got pregnant but you did nothing to stop it. Accidental matings happen. Accidental litters don't - you have made the decision to put your poor puppy though a pregnancy for your own reasons.


Our vets don't carry the mismate shot and they don't allow pregnant/emergency spays. geez what are you all missing about me repeating the same things over and over.

No its not like I took my girl to a boy and said here get on her and make get her pregnant. I told the story in earlier post.


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## maciesmomma

LinznMilly said:


> And, for the umpteenth time, if you'd have come on here immediately after the mating, no stones would have been cast. Stones are being cast because you have allowed this pregnancy to come to term and waited until it was conveniently too late to abort it to "seek advice".
> 
> And if you think you've been hard done by already, you really shouldn't have admitted that this little girl was a stray when you found her. Get your tin hat ready.


And again I just recently found this **** whole forum. I have been trying to find information for over a month now. How could I come here immediately after the mating when I had no knowledge that this forum even existed until the night I posted on here?


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## LinznMilly

maciesmomma said:


> And again I just recently found this **** whole forum. I have been trying to find information for over a month now. How could I come here immediately after the mating when I had no knowledge that this forum even existed until the night I posted on here?


Ok. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for a second. You say you've been researching for over a month, and it wasn't until the night you joined that you came across this site. If you've been thoroughly researching your options for a month, you must have come across some sort of advice about termination. I find it hard to believe that your vet doesn't have any sort of strategy for terminating unwanted litters. Whether that's through emergency spay, or through a mismate injection.

And even if you have only just found this site, it's not exactly the only pet forum on the Net, and it's a bit of a stretch to expect us to believe you haven't come across ANY dog or pet forum. :huh:


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## Guest

So let me see if I'm understanding correctly.
You have a dog who is way too young to be pregnant, may or may not reject the pups, may or may not have complications during delivery, and every other concern that goes with a dog being pregnant who shouldn't be, and your biggest concern is that I'm calling your female dog a bitch and don't believe your BS story about spaying pregnant bitches being illegal?
Okay then...

FWIW, I don't believe most of what you have posted. And the more you post, the more you expose yourself.

Still not sure why that even matter to you?

What you should be worried about is your bitch, her puppies, and how you're going to properly care for them and place them. Have you talked to the shelter about how to vet homes properly? Maybe some sort of spay/neuter contract? What about the whelping? Have you researched that? Maybe go to the library and check out "The book of the bitch"? Or would the title offend you too much? 

Good grief....


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## Rafa

OP, I used to breed and found nearly always bitches would deliver on the 63rd day of their pregnancy, or very close to. A day or so early or late is normal.

Have you got a whelping box set up for her? You need to get her accustomed to the sight and smell of it well before her due date.

The early indications of labour can include loss of appetite, panting, shivering, restlessness and sometimes a bitch will vomit.

If the Father of the pups was bigger than her, it would be as well to ask your vets to be aware of her due date, make sure you have the emergency number, as, if her pups are big, she may need help in the way of a C Section.

Do you have her on a good quality complete food, ideally puppy food?


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## maciesmomma

Dogloverlou said:


> You have a bitch - fact. Nothing offensive about that term.
> 
> It's a shame you didn't act when you saw your girl tie with a dog. You must have known it could have resulted in pregnancy? So why wasn't alarm bells ringing in your head already. I'd be thinking to myself 'OMG, I have a PUPPY still and she could potentially be pregnant'. For the sake of her welfare I'd have been carting her off to the vet for a mismate jab ASAP. Even if you wasn't aware of the mismate jab you should have contacted your vet and asked for options.
> 
> It sounds to me like you wanted pups to be honest. Obviously what is done is done now and you can only hope for a smooth, trouble free, labour. Please don't just rehome the pups to any Tom, Dick, or Harry either. I suggest you write up spay/neuter contracts for all your puppy owners so history doesn't repeat itself!
> 
> Oh, and for what it's worth, this site and it's members are very informative and helpful. But 'breeding' is a hot topic and as Meezey said, we see so many similar posts....some much worse. It's hard to educate people when they don't look for the education beforehand if that makes sense? Like, there is no excuse for unplanned pregnancies really these days with all the info out there as to how to prevent them.


The pups are going to people I trust. I'm not just pushing them to people. These people will also have a rehoming fee to pay of 20.00 which doesn't seem like much, but in my experience if people pay for something they are more likely to take care of it. They have all already agreed to have the pups fixed asap. I have tried to cover all bases with this part since it can't be avoided.


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## maciesmomma

Sweety said:


> OP, I used to breed and found nearly always bitches would deliver on the 63rd day of their pregnancy, or very close to. A day or so early or late is normal.
> 
> Have you got a whelping box set up for her? You need to get her accustomed to the sight and smell of it well before her due date.
> 
> The early indications of labour can include loss of appetite, panting, shivering, restlessness and sometimes a bitch will vomit.
> 
> If the Father of the pups was bigger than her, it would be as well to ask your vets to be aware of her due date, make sure you have the emergency number, as, if her pups are big, she may need help in the way of a C Section.
> 
> Do you have her on a good quality complete food, ideally puppy food?


Thank you for the advice.

We are currently working on/building her whelping box which should be done in a few days. I may have exaggerated on his size. He isn't a whole lot bigger than her. However I have informed my vet when I took her in he said at the time she looked fine but if she was experiencing problems delivering that he would come in to deliver them. As far as puppy food I am open to suggestions if you have tried something that has worked well.


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## Rafa

maciesmomma said:


> Thank you for the advice.
> 
> We are currently working on/building her whelping box which should be done in a few days. I may have exaggerated on his size. He isn't a whole lot bigger than her. However I have informed my vet when I took her in he said at the time she looked fine but if she was experiencing problems delivering that he would come in to deliver them. As far as puppy food I am open to suggestions if you have tried something that has worked well.


If she will eat a good quality complete puppy food, (kibble), that will fulfil all of her requirements whilst she's pregnant. If she seems hungry, I wouldn't ration her, but split her meals into, say, four smaller meals a day.

As she gets to her due date, she may lose her appetitite, that's normal, and you might have to tempt her with what she will eat, beef or chicken, for example.

Once her pups are born, she will need food with a good calcium and fat content and often, the puppy kibble will be the best thing, with some supplements, again beef, chicken or liver and maybe an egg from time to time.

When you next speak to your vet, ask his advice, as some vets like to have a lactating bitch on a calcium supplement, after delivery, not before.

I don't know what complete foods are available where you are but here, certainly Orijen, Arden Grange, James Wellbeloved are good ones, but it should be the puppy variety.

Hopefully, someone else can give you more advice on complete food, as I don't
feed it to my bitch because of her intolerance.


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## rocco33

maciesmomma said:


> Our vets don't carry the mismate shot and they don't allow pregnant/emergency spays. geez what are you all missing about me repeating the same things over and over.
> 
> No its not like I took my girl to a boy and said here get on her and make get her pregnant. I told the story in earlier post.


I don't know any vets that do carry the mismate - they usually need to get it in!

Nobody is saying you made her get pregnant  It is your irresponsible actions after the accidental mating that people are selfish. You ask if we are in favour of abortion? About as much as you seem to be in support of paedophilia! 

I too call bulls**t on this and if it's not it is highly irresponsible and selfish of you to allow this pregnancy to continue.


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## maciesmomma

ouesi said:


> So let me see if I'm understanding correctly.
> You have a dog who is way too young to be pregnant, may or may not reject the pups, may or may not have complications during delivery, and every other concern that goes with a dog being pregnant who shouldn't be, and your biggest concern is that I'm calling your female dog a bitch and don't believe your BS story about spaying pregnant bitches being illegal?
> Okay then...
> 
> FWIW, I don't believe most of what you have posted. And the more you post, the more you expose yourself.
> 
> Still not sure why that even matter to you?
> 
> What you should be worried about is your bitch, her puppies, and how you're going to properly care for them and place them. Have you talked to the shelter about how to vet homes properly? Maybe some sort of spay/neuter contract? What about the whelping? Have you researched that? Maybe go to the library and check out "The book of the bitch"? Or would the title offend you too much?
> 
> Good grief....


Any dog young or old may or may not reject their litter that is one thing I have found out from my research it doesn't matter the age!
And I know the proper term for a female dog is a bitch but, I still don't like it. I have answered everything you have asked to best of my ability and as far as you believing me I really don't care if you do or not. You are one person... I know I am honest and you not believing me is the least of my worries.

You statement of the more I post the more I expose myself... What am I exposing by telling the TRUTH! I am trying to give every small detail that I can. I am volunteering information and trying to not be deceitful but instead be honest and my honesty isn't even good enough.

HAHAHAHA nice remark with "the book of bitch". Its not that I am offended by that but being called a bitch is associated with something bad and she is anything bad. I love my fur baby. She is a friend and companion would you call your friend a bitch?


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## Dogloverlou

maciesmomma said:


> The pups are going to people I trust. I'm not just pushing them to people. These people will also have a rehoming fee to pay of 20.00 which doesn't seem like much, but in my experience if people pay for something they are more likely to take care of it. They have all already agreed to have the pups fixed asap. I have tried to cover all bases with this part since it can't be avoided.


I wouldn't take their word for it to be honest. You need to draw up some kind of contract that both yourself and the puppy buyer is aware of and you each keep proof of that agreement. I can't say how as I'm not a breeder, but I know someone here will know how to do so. It will require you of course staying in contact with all your puppy buyers and following up on whether they've abided by the contract.


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## maciesmomma

rocco33 said:


> I don't know any vets that do carry the mismate - they usually need to get it in!
> 
> Nobody is saying you made her get pregnant  It is your irresponsible actions after the accidental mating that people are selfish. You ask if we are in favour of abortion? About as much as you seem to be in support of paedophilia!
> 
> I too call bulls**t on this and if it's not it is highly irresponsible and selfish of you to allow this pregnancy to continue.


Well you tell me oh queen of bulls**t calling. What should I do? I have told you over and over our vets don't have the mismate shot nor do they allow pregnant spays.

I have a 6 year old daughter so you can shove your pedophilia remark right in your ass.

I have taken the credit time and time again for being irrspocible and letting this happen how many more times do you want me to do this?

Yes people are selfish when they breed just to have their children witness birth, they are selfish when they breed just because they want another dog just like theirs. People are selfish when breed just because they want puppies. None of these applies to me. I don't do this for any reason's it was an accident no more or less than that.


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## maciesmomma

Dogloverlou said:


> I wouldn't take their word for it to be honest. You need to draw up some kind of contract that both yourself and the puppy buyer is aware of and you each keep proof of that agreement. I can't say how as I'm not a breeder, but I know someone here will know how to do so. It will require you of course staying in contact with all your puppy buyers and following up on whether they've abided by the contract.


Thank you again and I will start looking up how to write it up to cover all bases since I am sure no one on here will be quick to help. because the only ting that have done so far is put me down and so on. but again thank you!


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## Dogloverlou

maciesmomma said:


> Thank you again and I will start looking up how to write it up to cover all bases since I am sure no one on here will be quick to help. because the only ting that have done so far is put me down and so on. but again thank you!


A quick Google search for 'spay/neuter contracts for puppies' brings up pages of results and you'll find some examples too. Don't get distracted and think it doesn't matter in your case because many are examples of pedigree breeders with AKC registration. It doesn't matter whether you have a purebred or a mixed breed, the same should still apply.

Here is a basic example - Sample of Spay/Neuter Contract


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## Rafa

maciesmomma said:


> Thank you again and I will start looking up how to write it up to cover all bases since I am sure no one on here will be quick to help. because the only ting that have done so far is put me down and so on. but again thank you!


Don't be afraid to come back and ask for help if you have worries about your girl.

Good advice from Dogloverlou.


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## maciesmomma

Sweety said:


> If she will eat a good quality complete puppy food, (kibble), that will fulfil all of her requirements whilst she's pregnant. If she seems hungry, I wouldn't ration her, but split her meals into, say, four smaller meals a day.
> 
> As she gets to her due date, she may lose her appetitite, that's normal, and you might have to tempt her with what she will eat, beef or chicken, for example.
> 
> Once her pups are born, she will need food with a good calcium and fat content and often, the puppy kibble will be the best thing, with some supplements, again beef, chicken or liver and maybe an egg from time to time.
> 
> When you next speak to your vet, ask his advice, as some vets like to have a lactating bitch on a calcium supplement, after delivery, not before.
> 
> I don't know what complete foods are available where you are but here, certainly Orijen, Arden Grange, James Wellbeloved are good ones, but it should be the puppy variety.
> 
> Hopefully, someone else can give you more advice on complete food, as I don't
> feed it to my bitch because of her intolerance.


I have her on some puppy food as of now but, I am also giving her an egg a day because I had read that it is good to give them those while they are pregnant. I have also been feeding her fully cooked beef once a week.


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## maciesmomma

Dogloverlou said:


> A quick Google search for 'spay/neuter contracts for puppies' brings up pages of results and you'll find some examples too. Don't get distracted and think it doesn't matter in your case because many are examples of pedigree breeders with AKC registration. It doesn't matter whether you have a purebred or a mixed breed, the same should still apply.
> 
> Here is a basic example - Sample of Spay/Neuter Contract


I started looking as soon as it was suggested.


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## Rafa

maciesmomma said:


> I have her on some puppy food as of now but, I am also giving her an egg a day because I had read that it is good to give them those while they are pregnant. I have also been feeding her fully cooked beef once a week.


That sounds good. A complete puppy food, (if she'll eat it), is better than a lot of wet foods, as some of the wet foods have a very high water content.

You could always mix the two, but try to aim for a high quality one.

Did you speak to your vet about a worming programme for her and for the pups?


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## maciesmomma

Sweety said:


> That sounds good. A complete puppy food, (if she'll eat it), is better than a lot of wet foods, as some of the wet foods have a very high water content.
> 
> You could always mix the two, but try to aim for a high quality one.
> 
> Did you speak to your vet about a worming programme for her and for the pups?


Her vet never mentioned and I didn't think to. I am guessing that will be further discussed when I take her and the pups in for their check up.


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## Rafa

maciesmomma said:


> Her vet never mentioned and I didn't think to. I am guessing that will be further discussed when I take her and the pups in for their check up.


I would bring it up with your vet. Your girl really should be on a worming programme now and your pups will need worming every two weeks, starting at three weeks old.

Sometimes, I think, vets will just not remember to mention such things, but it is very important. You don't want your pups going to their new homes with a worm burden.

It sounds as though you're all ready, just a matter of waiting now.


----------



## Honeys mum

OP I fail to understand why you would wait till your girl was 47 days after the accidental mating before asking for help.No matter what excuses you come up with I have to say that is totally irresponsable of you.

As you say you help out at a rescue surely someone their could have given you advice on what to do to aviod your puppy being in this unfortunate situation.
I would have thought with you working in a rescue should have know better.

But as Ive said before, I do hope your puppy has a trouble free whelping and gets through this ordeal.

IMO there was no need for your rudeness,people are just concerned for your puppys welfare.


----------



## Guest

maciesmomma said:


> Any dog young or old may or may not reject their litter that is one thing I have found out from my research it doesn't matter the age!


It is more likely to happen with a maiden bitch, especially one who is so young.



maciesmomma said:


> And I know the proper term for a female dog is a bitch but, I still don't like it. I have answered everything you have asked to best of my ability and as far as you believing me I really don't care if you do or not. You are one person... I know I am honest and you not believing me is the least of my worries.
> 
> You statement of the more I post the more I expose myself... What am I exposing by telling the TRUTH! I am trying to give every small detail that I can. I am volunteering information and trying to not be deceitful but instead be honest and my honesty isn't even good enough.


You are not being honest. You're spending a lot of time creating smokescreens and deflecting which smacks of deceit.
For one, there are no laws that say a bitch who is pregnant cannot be spayed. An emergency spay is different from a pregnancy termination spay, and human abortion has nothing to do with this conversation. 
Pregnancy termination is not a horrible, selfish thing to do to a bitch. It is a very humane option when the pregnancy is caught early and arguably safer for a bitch who is basically still a puppy than allowing the pregnancy to continue.

And if you actually do volunteer at a real shelter, you would know all of this.
You would also know that it is not illegal to spay a pregnant bitch in Kentucky, and you would know about procedures for dealing with unintentional matings, or at the very least you would have a contact at the shelter to ask about it if you were so worried about your bitch.

I also find it very hard to believe a shelter volunteer would be so ignorant of how to prevent unwanted matings or what to do if their bitch got caught. Nor does it add up that a shelter volunteer would be so sensitive about the word bitch used to describe a female dog, as on intake and every other form filled out you would be using that word about 50% of the time.

I can easily continue on highlighting the inconsistencies in your posts, but that's not the point. The point is, it is very difficult to advise someone if you don't know what to believe and what not to believe. And it's even harder to give appropriate advice if the information given is not accurate.



maciesmomma said:


> HAHAHAHA nice remark with "the book of bitch". Its not that I am offended by that but being called a bitch is associated with something bad and she is anything bad. I love my fur baby. She is a friend and companion would you call your friend a bitch?


I have a bitch, I call her a bitch, she is a bitch. Get over it. 
"The Book of the Bitch" is an actual book, and a very excellent one at that. I suggest you get it and read it.


----------



## maciesmomma

Honeys mum said:


> OP I fail to understand why you would wait till your girl was 47 days after the accidental mating before asking for help.No matter what excuses you come up with I have to say that is totally irresponsable of you.
> 
> As you say you help out at a rescue surely someone their could have given you advice on what to do to aviod your puppy being in this unfortunate situation.
> I would have thought with you working in a rescue should have know better.
> 
> But as Ive said before, I do hope your puppy has a trouble free whelping and gets through this ordeal.
> 
> IMO there was no need for your rudeness,people are just concerned for your puppys welfare.


I didn't seek help because everything seemed fine with her pregnancy until I thought she was going into labor and then I got scared and asked for help. I wasn't sure what to do if she was going into labor that early. I have asked a lot of questions not only to my vet but also at the shelter.. That is how I knew about puppy food and giving her some regular meat and also a whelping box. I have been trying to fill my head with as much advice and education as possible on this subject. When I originally posted on here it was like 4 in the morning our time so I couldn't really call any of them about what was going on.


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## maciesmomma

Final post!!!!

I do appreciate what advice has been given you have helped a bunch. For those who only wanted to make out to be a horrible lying person.... You are the reason I will no longer e visiting this forum nor will I suggest it to anyone ever. I am not taking up anymore of mine or your time since I am a little pressed for it anyways. Being a mother, wife, student, volunteer and doing work study have to much of my time tied up to worry about your long distance opinions. 

God bless ya'll and your dogs or cats.


----------



## Honeys mum

maciesmomma said:


> I didn't seek help because everything seemed fine with her pregnancy until I thought she was going into labor and then I got scared and asked for help. I wasn't sure what to do if she was going into labor that early. I have asked a lot of questions not only to my vet but also at the shelter.. That is how I knew about puppy food and giving her some regular meat and also a whelping box. I have been trying to fill my head with as much advice and education as possible on this subject. When I originally posted on here it was like 4 in the morning our time so I couldn't really call any of them about what was going on.


OP as usual you are completely missing mine and everyone else's point, and you never seem to grasp what is being said to you, or is it that you just won't accept the fact that you could have avoided this unforgivable and could be dangerous situation you have put your puppy in, by just doing something about it from day one .
Because I don't believe that someone who helps in a rescue wouldn't know or could not have got help sooner.
I just pray that your puppy will be be O.K. and not suffer from this ordeal that you and you alone have allowed her to be in.


----------



## Honeys mum

maciesmomma said:


> Final post!!!!
> 
> I do appreciate what advice has been given you have helped a bunch. For those who only wanted to make out to be a horrible lying person.... You are the reason I will no longer e visiting this forum nor will I suggest it to anyone ever. I am not taking up anymore of mine or your time since I am a little pressed for it anyways. Being a mother, wife, student, volunteer and doing work study have to much of my time tied up to worry about your long distance opinions.
> 
> God bless ya'll and your dogs or cats.[/QUOTE
> 
> OP , just wanted to say, I do hope you will let us know that your puppy and her babies when she has them are O.K.
> As you say you lead a very busy life, I hope you understand how much time and effort it takes to look a mum and her babies, because if done properly its a full time job. So good luck.


----------



## maciesmomma

Ok I am back again and hoping that someone I awake and can reply to this quickly. Since we have already gotten all of the bad things that everyone had to say out of the way. I have a question.

Macie is now 55 - 57 days into her pregnancy. She lost her mucus plug a little over an hour ago. I am just wondering should I expect labour any time soon? I have been monitoring her temp and it seems to be staying around 99 to 99.9degrees.

I have called my vet it is 10:05 pm currently and I am waiting for a return phone call. I have searched and searched and then searched some more about this online and I keep getting a ton of different information. Some saying 24-48 hours some saying a week before labour since a lot of you are breeders and have had experience with this. I want to know what you hall have experienced with your "bitches".

I wish I would figure out how to post a picture of her so you can see her size. she is about the size of a pitbull terrier (just a smaller head and doesn't have the muscles of one but, height and general build is the same).








Hopefully the picture attached


----------



## maciesmomma

Here is another picture of her standing.


----------



## rocco33

maciesmomma said:


> Ok I am back again and hoping that someone I awake and can reply to this quickly. Since we have already gotten all of the bad things that everyone had to say out of the way. I have a question.
> 
> Macie is now 55 - 57 days into her pregnancy. She lost her mucus plug a little over an hour ago. I am just wondering should I expect labour any time soon? I have been monitoring her temp and it seems to be staying around 99 to 99.9degrees.
> 
> I have called my vet it is 10:05 pm currently and I am waiting for a return phone call. I have searched and searched and then searched some more about this online and I keep getting a ton of different information. Some saying 24-48 hours some saying a week before labour since a lot of you are breeders and have had experience with this. I want to know what you hall have experienced with your "bitches".
> 
> I wish I would figure out how to post a picture of her so you can see her size. she is about the size of a pitbull terrier (just a smaller head and doesn't have the muscles of one but, height and general build is the same).
> View attachment 149554
> 
> 
> Hopefully the picture attached


PMSL - you really are unbelievable! I thought you were leaving not to come back


----------



## maciesmomma

rocco33 said:


> PMSL - you really are unbelievable! I thought you were leaving not to come back


 Once again I find my self surprised at this crap. I asked for help not a smart A$$ remark. If you can't help or give any information why even post anyway? I get it. You are Hell bent on putting me in my place and trust me I am there. and I had no further intentions of posting on here, but I thought maybe someone on here could give me more accurate information than what I am finding online. Geez thanks for the help again :thumbdown:


----------



## Guest

maciesmomma said:


> Once again I find my self surprised at this crap. I asked for help not a smart A$$ remark. If you can't help or give any information why even post anyway? I get it. You are Hell bent on putting me in my place and trust me I am there. and I had no further intentions of posting on here, but I thought maybe someone on here could give me more accurate information than what I am finding online. Geez thanks for the help again :thumbdown:


This is online information 

Has the vet called you back? Your vet, or a breeding mentor is your best source for information about your individual dog as they are the ones who can see her in person.

The reason you get so many different answers as to when labor starts is because every bitch is different. You need to know what other possible signs of labor to look for. Though I wouldnt take her temperature too much, I think that can be more annoying to the bitch than anything.
You also need to know what signs of problems to look for - all of this you should be discussing in detail with your vet.

Please make sure she has a quiet, out of the way spot to whelp and that she doesnt have an audience during the whelping.


----------



## maciesmomma

ouesi said:


> This is online information
> 
> Has the vet called you back? Your vet, or a breeding mentor is your best source for information about your individual dog as they are the ones who can see her in person.
> 
> The reason you get so many different answers as to when labor starts is because every bitch is different. You need to know what other possible signs of labor to look for. Though I wouldnt take her temperature too much, I think that can be more annoying to the bitch than anything.
> You also need to know what signs of problems to look for - all of this you should be discussing in detail with your vet.
> 
> Please make sure she has a quiet, out of the way spot to whelp and that she doesnt have an audience during the whelping.


Never got a return call from my vet and it is now 5:18 am. I have been up all night trying to keep an eye on here to make sure everything was ok. I have seen no signs of labour. NO panting, no passing, or anything else to that sort. I have been monitoring her temp but, it is staying in the lower end of 99 to the higher end of 99. She has kind of distance herself a little though. Usually she is right here beside me, but went and got in bed with my husband hours ago.

I guess what I was asking more than anything was how long after the mucus plug is gone does it usually take for labour to begin in the experiences you all have had? I have class this morning and finals tomorrow and Wednesday. I don't expect anyone to be able to tell me the exact time that she will be going into labour. The more I have read about the passing of a "bitches" mucus plug it seems like most people are leaning toward it being 24-72 ours for labour to begin.


----------



## Guest

maciesmomma said:


> Never got a return call from my vet and it is now 5:18 am. I have been up all night trying to keep an eye on here to make sure everything was ok. I have seen no signs of labour. NO panting, no passing, or anything else to that sort. I have been monitoring her temp but, it is staying in the lower end of 99 to the higher end of 99. She has kind of distance herself a little though. Usually she is right here beside me, but went and got in bed with my husband hours ago.
> 
> I guess what I was asking more than anything was how long after the mucus plug is gone does it usually take for labour to begin in the experiences you all have had? I have class this morning and finals tomorrow and Wednesday. I don't expect anyone to be able to tell me the exact time that she will be going into labour. The more I have read about the passing of a "bitches" mucus plug it seems like most people are leaning toward it being 24-72 ours for labour to begin.


Do you have someone knowledgeable who can stay with her while you take exams? Even if she whelps before tomorrow or Wednesday, she still may need help/supervision.


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## maciesmomma

My sister breeds Persian cats. So she knows about those. I could possibly have her come and stay with her some and my husband could some.


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## Rafa

The mucous plug coming away doesn't necessarily mean labour is imminent.

She could well do nothing for a few days yet, but you really should try to make sure she's supervised if you have to leave her now.

There really is no need for you to stay awake all night, it will be obvious when she's in labour.

I may have said this before but watch for loss of appetite, vomiting, restlessness, digging, panting and trembling.

As long as she's behaving normally, just watch and wait.


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## Guest

maciesmomma said:


> My sister breeds Persian cats. So she knows about those. I could possibly have her come and stay with her some and my husband could some.


Definitely get that set up. She really doesnt need to be left alone, and even after she whelps, shes going to need assistance and support - and not be left alone.


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## maciesmomma

Just an update. I finally got to talk to my vet. I told hi about the mucus plug and about her temp which has now dropped down to 98.8. He said in the next 24- 36 ours Macie should be going into labor.


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## maciesmomma

Sweety said:


> The mucous plug coming away doesn't necessarily mean labour is imminent.
> 
> She could well do nothing for a few days yet, but you really should try to make sure she's supervised if you have to leave her now.
> 
> There really is no need for you to stay awake all night, it will be obvious when she's in labour.
> 
> I may have said this before but watch for loss of appetite, vomiting, restlessness, digging, panting and trembling.
> 
> As long as she's behaving normally, just watch and wait.


Well here are the things I have checked off on my list.

The mucus plug. 
The temp of 98.8
The digging
The restlessness and wanting to be alone more than usual
The loss of appetite. I tried to give her a "treat" last night/ early this morning. She put it in her mouth then spat it out and didn't touch it after that. Nor has she touched her food.
No vomiting 
No panting
No trembling

And she is constantly licking her genitals/vagina. She also looks a little puffy in that area but not to puffy. and she keeps turning around and staring at her butt.....

I can't see or feel any contractions as of now, but I do have her in her whelping box all set up.

I am not sure what time it is there currently but I will try to get on every couple of hours or so.


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## Guest

Since your vet is not being very reliable, please also have the number of an emergency vet handy. If she has trouble during labor you dont want to wait 4 hours for a return phone call....


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## Sled dog hotel

maciesmomma said:


> Well here are the things I have checked off on my list.
> 
> The mucus plug.
> The temp of 98.8
> The digging
> The restlessness and wanting to be alone more than usual
> The loss of appetite. I tried to give her a "treat" last night/ early this morning. She put it in her mouth then spat it out and didn't touch it after that. Nor has she touched her food.
> No vomiting
> No panting
> No trembling
> 
> And she is constantly licking her genitals/vagina. She also looks a little puffy in that area but not to puffy. and she keeps turning around and staring at her butt.....
> 
> I can't see or feel any contractions as of now, but I do have her in her whelping box all set up.
> 
> I am not sure what time it is there currently but I will try to get on every couple of hours or so.


Normally after the temperature drops to 99 degrees or lower then first stage of labour should start 24 hours later. Then she should pant strain and be restless, its the first stage the cervix should be dilating and the birth canal opening for the puppies. The full stage should follow this one where she will have real abdominal straining and the puppies and placentas should be produced. If nothing seems to happen at all 24 hours after the temp drop then consult your vet.

The following links should help.From item 9 downwards.

http://www.akc.org/breeders/resources/guide_to_breeding_your_dog/pdf/guide_to_breeding_your_dog.pdf

This should also help with problems that you need to look out for that could mean problems.

The 6 Most Common Problems During and Post Whelping (Canine Pregnancy) | Pregnant & Lactating | Health & Wellbeing | Dogs | MedicAnimal.com


----------



## maciesmomma

Sled dog hotel said:


> Normally after the temperature drops to 99 degrees or lower then first stage of labour should start 24 hours later. Then she should pant strain and be restless, its the first stage the cervix should be dilating and the birth canal opening for the puppies. The full stage should follow this one where she will have real abdominal straining and the puppies and placentas should be produced. If nothing seems to happen at all 24 hours after the temp drop then consult your vet.
> 
> The following links should help.From item 9 downwards.
> 
> http://www.akc.org/breeders/resources/guide_to_breeding_your_dog/pdf/guide_to_breeding_your_dog.pdf
> 
> This should also help with problems that you need to look out for that could mean problems.
> 
> The 6 Most Common Problems During and Post Whelping (Canine Pregnancy) | Pregnant & Lactating | Health & Wellbeing | Dogs | MedicAnimal.com


thank you so much for the info. I am going to try to take a nap since I should have a little while before she starts whelping.


----------



## Rafa

The panting and trembling do tend to happen when labour is established.

Often, the loss of appetite and restlessness can be signs of early labour.

When labour does begin, watch carefully for her straining, (it will be obvious). If she strains for twenty minutes without result, you need to speak to your vet.

When she has a pup, she should lick it quite vigorously and continue to do so until she begins straining for another pup. At that time, she will be preoccupied with turning round to her back end and you need to move the first pup a little out of the way so that your girl doesn't catch it with her claws. Once she has her second pup, move the first one back to his Mum.

Once she begins in labour, if she asks to go outside, you must go with her. It isn't unusual for a bitch to have a pup in the garden if not supervised.


----------



## Westy

You need more help than advice from people in the internet who cannot see your bitch. 

How would you feel having only your best friend with you who knows nothing rather than an experienced midwife?

At the very least get your sister who breeds cats to stay - far from perfect but better than nothing. You may well need to help your poor bitch.


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## maciesmomma

Well, just an update. 

I couldn't hold my eye open any longer so I went to bed at 12:30 am last night (after being up 36 hours with her).

I got woke up by my husband at 5:04 am saying he heard a puppy cry (which she was in bed with us cause she wont sleep anywhere else). We both carefully got up and flipped on the lights.

6 puppies at this time all beautiful and doing well. 

It is now 7:30 am and she has done beautifully and has delivered 8 puppies, that are all doing great. I had to help her some with her last one (cutting the sack off) because she was so tired. 

We are so blessed to have these little fur babies and I thank all of you who gave advice and even the ones who didn't.


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## Burrowzig

Be sure to post photos as soon as you can. Glad it went well.


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## Hanwombat

Glad mum and puppies are doing well


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## maciesmomma

I thought when I posted that she was done for sure. She got up and ate went out and peed and then went straight back to her puppies.

At 8:42 a.m. puppy number 9 was delivered and is also doing well. 

It was over an hour between the last 2 so I called my vet and they said that it is common for a first litter to do that. They also said that should more than likely be the last one that she has! 

As of now we have 9 healthy puppies and a healthy momma who has taken everything so well.

Just incase people read these thread in the future.....

When she went into labor we didn't have many of the usual signs.

She slept the entire day yesterday
Lost her mucus plug the night before.
Her temp dropped to 98.3
Other then that we had nothing else happen

Her breathing was a little harder but, pretty much the same as it had been for a week.
She didn't nest a whole lot.
She didn't vomit.
She had no soft poop.
I want others to have the information from my experience just in case someone else finds themselves in this situation and is to scared to ask for help!

Thank you all for all the well wishes for my Macie Ann and her babies.


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## Sled dog hotel

Glad puppies have arrived safely and mum and pups are doing well.


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## Honeys mum

Glad to hear babies have arrived safely, hope mum and babies continue to do well. She will need rest and peace and quite now.
Sounds like you are going to have your hands full now.
Good luck with mum and babies.


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## Rafa

So glad that Mum and babies are doing well.

Nine is a lot of pups for her to rear, so, if you haven't done so already, do check that her diet is rich in calcium and fat and I would feed her as much as she wants.

It might be a good idea to have a word with your vet as to whether he thinks a calcium supplement would be a good idea for her.


----------



## maciesmomma

Sweety said:


> So glad that Mum and babies are doing well.
> 
> Nine is a lot of pups for her to rear, so, if you haven't done so already, do check that her diet is rich in calcium and fat and I would feed her as much as she wants.
> 
> It might be a good idea to have a word with your vet as to whether he thinks a calcium supplement would be a good idea for her.


I thought the same. She had a puppy in her mouth earlier that I thought she was trying to eat. However I am not sure if she was now or not because she surrendered the puppy to me and I moved it back with the others. She hasn't bothered it since.


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## maciesmomma

Also my vet is amazed at how we could only see 4 pups on the x-ray and we ended up with 9. However, I did get some bad news from my vet. Turns out I will be bottle feeding at least 5 of them because he doesn't think she will produce enough milk/calcium.


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## Guest

Glad to hear she whelped okay.

I am a little worried for her though, she was trying to eat one of the puppies?? Thats very worrisome. Does she seem stressed? Why does the vet think she wont produce enough? 9 puppies is a lot, but plenty of dams manage to feed that many without issue.


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## Dogloverlou

Good to hear everything went well  


Now just to prepare for when they leave home and thoroughly research your puppy buyers! And get those spay/neuter contracts written up


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## maciesmomma

ouesi said:


> Glad to hear she whelped okay.
> 
> I am a little worried for her though, she was trying to eat one of the puppies?? Thats very worrisome. Does she seem stressed? Why does the vet think she wont produce enough? 9 puppies is a lot, but plenty of dams manage to feed that many without issue.


They said she could get milk fever with that many because she is a smaller dog and it being her first litter and the fact that there are 9 of them.

My pot said I had to supplement for at least 9 or them it was supposed to say 5.

And when I thought she was trying to eat a puppy she really wasn't it had gotten away from her and the rest of the pup and she was trying to bring it back but couldn't figure out how to pick it up. So she tried many different ways and had its whole body in her mouth when I walked back into the room and I of course got scared because of all the horror stories I have heard about a young mother eating their pups.

However, I am proud to say as of now she is a thriving mommy. She wont leave her puppies except to go out to potty. As soon as she has done her business she comes running back in with her pups.

Jut so everyone knows... Yesterday when she was sleeping a lot and wouldn't get out of the bed I cried my eyes out for my poor baby because she acted miserable. I feel absolutely horrible about this whole situation and it could have been avoided had I been more careful.


----------



## Sled dog hotel

maciesmomma said:


> Also my vet is amazed at how we could only see 4 pups on the x-ray and we ended up with 9. However, I did get some bad news from my vet. Turns out I will be bottle feeding at least 5 of them because* he doesn't think she will produce enough milk/calcium. :*
> (


You may need to watch her in that case. There is a condition bitches can get post whelping called Enclampsia also known as Milk Fever. Its caused by something called Hypo calcemia low levels of Calcium in the Mums blood. Its caused if they cant keep up with the supply of calcium and move it quick enough to the milk so they end up depleting their own bodies calcium supply.
It doesn't affect the pups just her. Signs are below to look out for.

Eclampsia is a very serious disorder but fortunately the signs are fairly easy to recognize. Affected dogs may:

Appear restless and nervous.

Walk with a stiff gait and may even wobble or appear disoriented.

Become unable to walk and her legs may become stiff or rigid.

Fever, with body temperature even over 40º C.

Affected bitches often develop muscle tremors

The respiration rate (number of breaths per minute) will increase,

Seizures may also occur, at this point; death can occur if no treatment is given.

If you see any signs like this then you will need to contact your vet urgently as he will need to give her calcium quickly by injection or even intravenously.

There is a good link below too that should help with Bottle feeding, its for orphaned puppies and includes trouble shooting in case you have any problems.

https://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_breeding/Articles/babyfood.cfm


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## Rafa

Nine is a lot of pups for a bitch who isn't very big herself.

Eclampsia is a risk and that's why I suggested in an earlier post that your vet may think it a good idea to give her a calcium supplement whilst she's nursing.

If she's properly nourished, with a calcium and fat rich food and if you begin weaning early, nine may not be too many for her. I had a Parson Russell bitch who very successfully nursed eight pups.

What are you feeding her?


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## maciesmomma

a mix of things. Purina with added protein.2 Tums a day (recommended by my vet)either beef or grilled chicken for dinner, and scrambled eggs 2 times a day. 

She seems to be dong fine right now. However, I have started supplementing to help her out so she doesn't get to stressed. I don't do t much. Just enough to lighten her load a little.


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## Rafa

I know it may seem that I'm a little obsessed with calcium but it is very important indeed.

I used to supplement the diet of a nursing Mum with rice pudding, yoghurt and sardines, all rich in calcium.

Also, a bowl of very milky tea every now and then.

I don't believe you can overfeed a Mum who is nursing a big litter.


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## kodakkuki

rocco33 said:


> I don't know any vets that do carry the mismate - they usually need to get it in!


sorry, not meaning to derail at all- but is this actually the case?! i just assumed they all did tbh- but then again my practice has the contract with the local council and the other practice i use volunteers for a few sanctuaries... but i'd assumed they'd all have a bottle in the store 



Sweety said:


> I know it may seem that I'm a little obsessed with calcium but it is very important indeed.
> 
> I used to supplement the diet of a nursing Mum with rice pudding, yoghurt and sardines, all rich in calcium.
> 
> Also, a bowl of very milky tea every now and then.
> 
> I don't believe you can overfeed a Mum who is nursing a big litter.


completely with you on this one!!!!!
if she will eat it for you- let her! give as much as you can!

there are a few foods designed specifically for nursing bitches and weaning pups- i used royal canin 'mother and babydog' with my yorkies and they all thrived on it- even missys litters of 6 and 7! if you can get hold of the food, i personally would recommend a gentle switch over... it has extra calcium and protein in it specifically to help momma feed her babies... x


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## Little P

kodakkuki said:


> sorry, not meaning to derail at all- but is this actually the case?! i just assumed they all did tbh- but then again my practice has the contract with the local council and the other practice i use volunteers for a few sanctuaries... but i'd assumed they'd all have a bottle in the store


It's quite expensive and thankfully not used very often so is usually ordered in. That being said, it usually comes in within 24 hours (in the uk anyway).


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## kodakkuki

Little P said:


> It's quite expensive and thankfully not used very often so is usually ordered in. That being said, it usually comes in within 24 hours (in the uk anyway).


it must just be working with rescue/ pounds then that means we and the other vet stock it! i'd assumed that was the norm though- i've been in and out of 'my' practice from i was 15 on work experience! lol


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## Little P

kodakkuki said:


> it must just be working with rescue/ pounds then that means we and the other vet stock it! i'd assumed that was the norm though- i've been in and out of 'my' practice from i was 15 on work experience! lol


Thankfully there's not much need for it where I work


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## Thorne

Very relieved that mum and pups are doing well so far, good luck over the coming weeks. What's important now is their health and wellbeing, so please do keep posting if you have any questions.

RE her holding the puppy, I've helped care for several mums and their litters and the new mums were a bit "clumsy" moving their babies, but got the hang of it. My bitch would pick up a puppy as if to show it to you when she was excited!
I did know one bitch who bit a puppy in an aggressive manner and rejected it when the litter was about 1 month old, so best not to let your guard down just in case.


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## maciesmomma

Pups are now 4 days old and doing great and so is momma. She has started to figure out how to move them correctly or she will come to me and whine and then take me to show me what she wants (to put the baby back). We have her on a calcium supplement now and we are still supplementing with the pups some. She is an amazing little mommy and I am so proud of her. 

P.S. I can't believe how much the pups have grown in just 4 days. Getting fat already!


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## Rafa

Glad all is going well with Mum and Kids.


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## Honeys mum

Glad mum and babies are still doing well.


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## maciesmomma

**UPDATE**

Puppies are a week old today and all doing wonderful. All 9 of them are getting fat and seem to have no signs of any problems.

I am still supplementing along with her nursing. Those of you who told me that I was going to have my hands full wasn't lying. Every 2 hours pretty much on the dot I am making formula and feeding them. I am so glad that this semester of college is over... She had her pups the day before my last final.

My dog has changed somewhat too. She had never barked at anyone knocking on our door or anything else but, the past few days she has been. I guess she is just trying to protect her puppies. 

The calcium supplement that her vet gave up seems to be doing great for her. Puppies don't seem more hungry than they should be and she is still a wonderful mother. 

I will post pictures of our 9 chubby babies soon!


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## Rafa

Glad all is going well.

She will definitely be protective of her pups and your house in general, particularly whilst she's nursing.

The calcium supplement is such a good thing, eclampsia is dreadful to deal with and horrible for Mum.

Look forward to seeing some pictures.


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## maciesmomma

Here is a few pictures. I have tons. Lol.


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## Sled dog hotel

maciesmomma said:


> Here is a few pictures. I have tons. Lol.


Lovely to see the photos they look lovely and healthy and doing well.


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## bingolitle

Lovely puppies - I'm guessing Dad was brown? 

Congratulations to the blooming mother and best wishes that you all continue to thrive!

What are you studying?


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## Honeys mum

Lovely to see the photos, they all look lovely and healthy.
Glad they are all doing well.


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## Honeys mum

Sorry, forgot to say, and mum of course.


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## maciesmomma

bingolitle said:


> Lovely puppies - I'm guessing Dad was brown?
> 
> Congratulations to the blooming mother and best wishes that you all continue to thrive!
> 
> What are you studying?


Thank you. I am getting masters in business administration with a minor in accounting.


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