# BSH breeding - Advice



## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

Hello,

I have a blue cream pedigree BSH. I’ll start by saying she is non-active but we are contacting the breeder to see if she would reconsider on the grounds we only intend to have one litter.

I was wondering what costs, tests etc are involved. We aren’t looking to breed show level cats but of course want them as healthy as possible. Edit: *** PKD and FIV seem the most commonly done are there any others required?

As she is our only cat we would intend to keep 1 or even 2 of the kittens so that sorts out some of the homes. Edit: *** I would also consider getting the kittens castrated or spayed before rehoming

Im trying to do my research before deciding. The plan would be to breed her as early as if safe (I read 18-24 months however I’ve also read about only waiting till her 3rd call?) and have her spayed after it was appropriate. She is an indoor cat and we take great care to avoid her escaping but we know spaying has many health benefits.

Are there any good resources to learn foundation colour genetics? She is blue cream with her mother being blue and father cream so I’d presume a breeding to blue or cream would result in a mix of kittens. We love the appearance of the silver tabbies or golden shaded but not sure if it would be worth looking for a stud if the breeding would be incompatible. Edit:*** healthy kittens would be the goal so colour is the least of our worries. Would it be best to stick with blue or cream or would there be harm in exploring other colours? (And why eager to learn!!)

many advice appreciated! We are of course doing our research and still considering all options. Our reasons for wanting kittens is the experience, to keep some for ourselves and feel better about spaying her as currently I feel unsettled on it. No I do not wish to become a full time breeder.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If you want to breed silver tabbies or golden shaded then a blue-cream isn't the place to start. 

Breeding just one litter really isn't a great idea. In my view,either you go whole hog and try to breed cats of show quality, or you spay her. As you correctly say, spaying has health benefits and spaying before her first call has the most. Breeding can be hard, vet bills can be huge, and it's hard work especially once kittens are active & out of their nest.


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> If you want to breed silver tabbies or golden shaded then a blue-cream isn't the place to start.
> 
> Breeding just one litter really isn't a great idea. In my view,either you go whole hog and try to breed cats of show quality, or you spay her. As you correctly say, spaying has health benefits and spaying before her first call has the most. Breeding can be hard, vet bills can be huge, and it's hard work especially once kittens are active & out of their nest.


I am in a position where the costs and time needed to be invested would not be an issue. For me personally there would be no reason to breed cats for showing as it's not among my interests and my aim would be to have loving family pets as opposed to breeding cats.

I thought this would be the case with colour - is the issue that the kittens simply wouldn't gain the colouring or that it would become a problem for breeding the colour in the future at show level?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

There's plenty of shelter cats who make for lovely pets, no need to breed without a proper purpose of furthering the breed.

You could foster a pregnant cat and experience raising a litter that way.


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

spotty cats said:


> There's plenty of shelter cats who make for lovely pets, no need to breed without a proper purpose of furthering the breed.
> 
> You could foster a pregnant cat and experience raising a litter that way.


I have looked for shelter cats before I even got her and found many had special home requirements in terms of no children, no other cats or were being rehomed in pairs (problematic if I was to introduce them to her and I got my current BSH after she wasn't accepted by a current cat. Therefore my reason for breeding a single litter was to have cats that were familiar with one another and could adapt to our household. Personally I don't intend to become a breeder as this is I imagine highly expensive and creates even more kittens that might struggle to find homes. I do not understand why breeding 1-3 kittens (presuming I would be keeping a couple) that will need pet homes is not worth it but breeding multiple kittens so they can be shown and win prizes is a better reason?

Fostering a pregnant cat is something I would love to do further down the line but it's impossible to know if I will have the space and be in a situation to do this in the future as a foster cat would need to be separated from my resident cats.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I wonder will you respect the breeders wishes if they say no to changing the registration?


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

spotty cats said:


> I wonder will you respect the breeders wishes if they say no to changing the registration?


Yes I will. If I bred her I would also want to register them as non-active to avoid them being used for backyard breeding by somebody wanting to make a quick buck etc. So I would fully understand if her decision was no! If she was not registered active then I know it would be a struggle to find a fully tested pedigree stud which in my opinion would render it pointless and too great a risk. So yes I would respect the breeders ultimate decision which is why I began this post stating that my decision to breed largely rides on the breeders response. Please do not assume I have ill intentions or poor morals, I only wish to do the best for my cat and the situation I am in.

I hope you do not feel attacked by me disregarding breeding for show as a motivator. I understand breeders are proud of creating pedigree cats that represent the breed but I am not looking to make this a full time hobby investment, the same way I enjoy horse riding but don't compete professionally as there is purpose in joy.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Breeding is done to preserve the breed, further the next generation along. Choosing the right girl for the right boy not just whatever is available. 

Some girls don't like their offspring after they're weaned either so breeding to keep a family together is a poor reason. 

But being full of excuses I shouldn't imagine anything said here will make a difference.


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

spotty cats said:


> Breeding is done to preserve the breed, further the next generation along. Choosing the right girl for the right boy not just whatever is available.
> 
> Some girls don't like their offspring after they're weaned either so breeding to keep a family together is a poor reason.
> 
> But being full of excuses I shouldn't imagine anything said here will make a difference.


Nowhere did I say that I would pick whatever is available and I felt like my post described how I want to do this the right way which clearly has not been conveyed.

If some cats don't like their kittens then that would be unfortunate but no larger a risk than adopting a cat and having to send it back should their be a fall out which would be much harder.

I have provided my reasons and you are free to explain yours but it is unfair to call mine excuses simply because you disagree. Please do not comment further if you do not wish to help or provide constructive information and simply be rude. I hope you find a way to be kinder in your future responses and I hope you have a lovely day and the cause for your rudeness has no underlying cause as these are tough times in the world.


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

spotty cats said:


> Breeding is done to preserve the breed, further the next generation along. Choosing the right girl for the right boy not just whatever is available.
> 
> Some girls don't like their offspring after they're weaned either so breeding to keep a family together is a poor reason.
> 
> But being full of excuses I shouldn't imagine anything said here will make a difference.


Cats are far more likely to get along with related cats as opposed to unrelated cats based on what I've found research and article wise and if you can provide any sources that state otherwise please feel free to share as this would be helpful to know rather than throwing the excuse label around. Do mother's tend to act standoffish when kittens reach independence to establish boundaries or does this just carry on?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Taya said:


> Cats are far more likely to get along with related cats as opposed to unrelated cats based on what I've found research and article wise and if you can provide any sources that state otherwise please feel free to share as this would be helpful to know rather than throwing the excuse label around. Do mother's tend to act standoffish when kittens reach independence to establish boundaries or does this just carry on?


Not my experience. The cats that get on best seem to be neutered boys, all the social problems I've had have involved girls, mother & daughter in one case.

Also the only way to protect your kittens from bybs is to neuter them before they leave.


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> Not my experience. The cats that get on best seem to be neutered boys, all the social problems I've had have involved girls, mother & daughter in one case.
> 
> Also the only way to protect your kittens from bybs is to neuter them before they leave.


I did just go through a few pre existing posts and found one of your comments detailing doing so, it does sound like the best option and I would be more than happy to take on the cost of having them neutered to prevent this! Ty for the suggestion, I often see kittens go at 8 weeks which I believe is too young to do so. But having gotten my BSH slightly older I think it's better in a way as she was properly litter trained, socialised and seem like much easier than previous cats I've had of which we got younger.

Was that boys together or boys with girls? Would it therefore be better for me to keep sons as opposed to daughters?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Taya said:


> <snip>
> Was that boys together or boys with girls? Would it therefore be better for me to keep sons as opposed to daughters?


You can't be sure any kitten will continue to get on with it's mother. This is no different to human families - the person most likely to murder you is someone in your family. At least if it's a rescue cat or kitten they can be returned. If you breed them 'for company' and it goes wrong it's up to you to find a new home for one of your cats.

You also wrote:


> Cats are far more likely to get along with related cats as opposed to unrelated cats based on what I've found


Maybe you'd like to tell us what you found and where?



> Personally I don't intend to become a breeder as this is I imagine highly expensive and creates even more kittens that might struggle to find homes


For me, as soon as you cause or let a girl become pregnant you are a breeder. Yes, it can be very expensive, I had a vet bill of £2k last year and another of £400 and no kittens in either case. But that can happen to a 'just one litter' breeder as well. It was the £2k girl's first litter.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

You don't get to dictate replies on a public forum 



Taya said:


> I often see kittens go at 8 weeks which I believe is too young


They would be going against gccf guidelines which I believe state kittens cannot leave until a week after 2nd vacc (13 weeks), I'm sure one of the UK breeders can clarify.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

You really ought to be asking your breeder all this and getting them to mentor you.

However:-


Taya said:


> I was wondering what costs, tests etc are involved.


You need to ensure you have roughly £3000 as an emergency fund. While many litters arrive and reach the 13 week period without incident, the bare truth is few actually get there without a vet visit. The birth can go wrong, and kittens are extremely fragile and can die in hours, sometimes inexplicably at several weeks old. They are also inquisitive and clumsy, and can get themselves into trouble/injured with the most innocent of household items! That's just the emergency side covered. 
Tests required for the queen will be blood grouping, PKD and ALPS.
You also need to work out the extra cost of food. Your queen will require at least double her normal food intake from around week 3 of pregnancy, right through to the point the kittens are fully weaned, that can be a period of three to three and a half months. Each kitten will eat as much food as it will as a fully grown adult every day, so a litter of 4 kittens can munch their way through 12 pouches of cat food A DAY!
Litter trays will need cleaning every day as what goes in will come out and kittens both pee and poo a phenomenal amount. For a litter of 4 kittens, I easily go through 3 or 4 large bags of cat litter in the 9 or so weeks that kittens are using a tray. 
Vaccinations cost me £250 for two kittens to start their jabs and an adults booster last month, and I don't live in the most expensive area. 
Registration is probably the cheapest part of breeding at about £40 for a litter of 4.
Wormer and flea products for the kittens. 
Puppy pads.
Blankets.
Electric heat mat.
Cleaning products.
Damage to your home/furniture/mental health.
Kitten safe toys.
Having enough knowledge of the breed to advise those buying kittens from you. 
Those are just the basics you will need to consider. 


Taya said:


> We aren't looking to breed show level cats but of course want them as healthy as possible.


Everyone breeding a pedigree animal should be doing to to better the breed, and therefore be hoping to produce show cats. I'd be heartbroken if someone wanted to just produce mediocre kittens from a cat I'd spent my time, money and passion bringing into the world. Yes not all kittens make the show bench, but you should never ever start out not hoping to get there. All decent breeders want to produce healthy cats, the two things are not mutually exclusive. 


Taya said:


> She is blue cream with her mother being blue and father cream so I'd presume a breeding to blue or cream would result in a mix of kittens. We love the appearance of the silver tabbies or golden shaded.


Forget the silver and golden colours with your girl. These colours need to be colour bred (ie. just silvers and goldens) to have quality of colour. It would be better to stick to either a blue or a cream, although you could use a black, red, chocolate or Lilac boy, to get other colours but you will not get any chocolate or lilacs if your girl does not carry the genes for chocolate (you can test for this).


Taya said:


> Cats are far more likely to get along with related cats as opposed to unrelated cats based on what I've found research and article wise


No article is as good as hands on experience and every breeder will be able to tell you that what you read in a book or on the internet is usually so far from the reality of what happens when breeding and owning cats. 
Cats are naturally solitary animals. We might have bred them for generations but deep down the feline nature persists. They can be spiteful to each other. They fall out, squabble and get fed up of one another. Fights are not uncommon and there is usually always someone who is picked on. Yes, even when they are all closely related. The other day one of mine kicked ten bells out of his mother injuring her in the process. Both of these cats are neutered, and have been for some time. The fight came out of the blue with no hints of problems before. 
The sexes of the individuals dosen't seem to matter in this regard. Some breeds are just more combative than others too. A couple of cats can usually settle together but once you start getting more than this problems can arise.

All in all I have no issue with people wishing to breed from their pedigree cat so long as they intend to a) do it properly and b) for the right reasons and c) with the full blessing and help of their cats breeder. 
Breeding to give yourself new cats is a poor reason. 
Breeding just one litter for the experience of doing it is a poor reason. 
Breeding from your cat because you don't like the thought of neutering him/her is a poor reason.

There is also the fact rarely spoken of that once a queen has had a litter she is different. Her character subtly changes. Its hard to explain it but it does happen.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> <snip>
> They would be going against GCCF guidelines which I believe state kittens cannot leave until a week after 2nd vacc (13 weeks), I'm sure one of the UK breeders can clarify.


Yes, a week after 2nd vaccination which is sometimes delayed. My kittens that have just left were born 31st August. My current vet won't neuter until 4 months, but I won't let them go un-neutered. Xmas was bad timing this year so they were a couple of weeks older, and really starting to annoy my two girls.

I've had at least one phone call who hung up on me when I reminded them that (as the advert said) the kitten would be neutered before she left. Felt I dodged a bullet.

As to colours. The BSH has a complicated registration policy: 
https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/BreedRegPols/BSH.RegPol.March2018.pdf?ver=2020-08-18-092532-600

A blue-cream (blue tortie) cat would usually be bred to produce kittens in the Self, Tortie & Bi-Colour group.

As above, the breeder you brought your girl from should be willing to guide you through all of this (assuming she will transfer your cat to active), including finding a suitable stud.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Taya said:


> <snip>
> Edit: *** PKD and FIV seem the most commonly done are there any others required?
> <snip>


A half-way decent stud owner will require a negative FIV & FeLV snap test within the 24 hours before she goes to stud, and should write a letter with the result.

As written elsewhere, you need to know her blood type, you might want to know if she carries chocolate or cinnamon, and she should be tested for British Shorthair Autoimmune Lymphoproliferative Syndrome (ALPS) and Polycystic Kidney Disease (PKD). These can all be done with a check swab sent to Langford.

https://www.langfordvets.co.uk/diagnostic-laboratories/services/cat-genetic-testing/

The blood test is vital as some combinations can be fatal to the kittens:

https://www.langfordvets.co.uk/media/1728/feline-blood-type.pdf


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

spotty cats said:


> You don't get to dictate replies on a public forum
> 
> No but I can ask you politely to be friendlier with your responses. I'm here to learn and be advised not attacked! Grow up
> 
> They would be going against gccf guidelines which I believe state kittens cannot leave until a week after 2nd vacc (13 weeks), I'm sure one of the UK breeders can clarify.


I'm unsure I'm just going based off what I've seen advertised on pets4homes as mainly being 8/10 weeks - they are more often sold with contracts to get them fixed as allowed to already being done


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

@Taya as abreeder of BSH I can honestly tell you it's not always plain sailing keeping a house full of girls together wether it's two or four or more. We have one girl who loves kittens no matter who's they are but we have girls who by the time their kittens are 9 weeks old they are completely pissed off with them and it's no fun nor is it easy when you want and need the kittens in the lounge etc so they get plenty human interaction and then your having to lock mum away from them all the time cos shes decided she's had enough of them and will have a go at them if she gets the chance. Them there are girls who love their kittens all the time they are kittens and then the one you keep from that litter reaches maturity and will then decide safe wants to be boss and start having a pop at the others then you end up with everyone having a go at each other on and off and sometimes it can end up more that a little squabble and then you have to then keep them apart. Allot of the time it can be very stressful.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Taya said:


> I'm unsure I'm just going based off what I've seen advertised on pets4homes as mainly being 8/10 weeks - they are more often sold with contracts to get them fixed as allowed to already being done


GCCF registered kittens must not leave until at least one week after their 2nd vaccination - usually at 13 or 14 weeks.
Also more and more breeders are choosing to have their kittens neutered before leaving. This is the only sure way to prevent back yard breeding. Pets4homes is not the best place to look at kitten adverts as a guide to responsible breeding.


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> You can't be sure any kitten will continue to get on with it's mother. This is no different to human families - the person most likely to murder you is someone in your family. At least if it's a rescue cat or kitten they can be returned. If you breed them 'for company' and it goes wrong it's up to you to find a new home for one of your cats.
> 
> You also wrote:
> 
> Maybe you'd like to tell us what you found and where? .


Thats a very disturbing fact I shall hope my human family likes me enough

I will stick to the research related papers as opposed to more unverified pet websites I looked at. It was also based off personal experience of a neighbour who owns a mother Bengal and two of her offspring, and another neighbour who kept one of their cats offspring. Of course them being related has no certainty of them getting along but it seems equally unlikely having to introduce unrelated cats to her. Of course they would be the only cats help reducing strain from other cats in the household. In a sense I'd rather have to rehome them myself then return a cat to a shelter and add to their workload

'Where a group of cats consists of more than a female and her dependent offspring, the core of the group is usually several related female adults, for example, a mother and her female offspring from the previous and/or earlier years.

'Affiliation behaviour of related and unrelated pairs of cats in Catherine's: a preliminary report
The opening paragraph was too long to share but essentially littermates were the most likely to get along rather than unrelated cats. Only vaguely relevant if I was to keep two!

'A retrospective study of cats presented to a behavior service for treatment of intercat aggression found that male cats were more likely to be the initiators of aggression than female cats, but the aggression was equally likely to be directed at a same sex as an opposite-sex'

I guess it all down to luck but everybody in right in saying it's not a solid reason for breeding to have a family together as there is no promise of them getting along, I simply saw it as a higher possibility!


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

lymorelynn said:


> GCCF registered kittens must not leave until at least one week after their 2nd vaccination - usually at 13 or 14 weeks.
> Also more and more breeders are choosing to have their kittens neutered before leaving. This is the only sure way to prevent back yard breeding. Pets4homes is not the best place to look at kitten adverts as a guide to responsible breeding.


Understandable! I did not know this, I know I got my girl around 12-14 weeks but she'd already been with her previous owner for 3 meaning she can't have applied to the rules. Definitely interesting to know and I fully agree with the rules GCCF as this seems far more responsible


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

David C said:


> @Taya as abreeder of BSH I can honestly tell you it's not always plain sailing keeping a house full of girls together wether it's two or four or more. We have one girl who loves kittens no matter who's they are but we have girls who by the time their kittens are 9 weeks old they are completely pissed off with them and it's no fun nor is it easy when you want and need the kittens in the lounge etc so they get plenty human interaction and then your having to lock mum away from them all the time cos shes decided she's had enough of them and will have a go at them if she gets the chance. Them there are girls who love their kittens all the time they are kittens and then the one you keep from that litter reaches maturity and will then decide safe wants to be boss and start having a pop at the others then you end up with everyone having a go at each other on and off and sometimes it can end up more that a little squabble and then you have to then keep them apart. Allot of the time it can be very stressful.


Have you found that mothers are more likely to get on with sons? Now you've mentioned the potential aggression I can only presume she wouldn't be very tolerant of attempts to boss her around.

it's hard to know as previously stated people often refer to cats being solitary in nature however many behaviourists promote multi cats to give them company especially when you cannot always be at home yourself (e.g. Jackson Galaxy). Regardless of breeding I had intended for her to have some companionship. I'll have to dive deeper into how to know if your cats better or worse without a 'friend'. She hates being alone and cries when I leave her and always acts very affectionate upon my return (never for longer than 2/3 hours)


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> A half-way decent stud owner will require a negative FIV & FeLV snap test within the 24 hours before she goes to stud, and should write a letter with the result.
> 
> As written elsewhere, you need to know her blood type, you might want to know if she carries chocolate or cinnamon, and she should be tested for British Shorthair Autoimmune Lymphoproliferative Syndrome (ALPS) and Polycystic Kidney Disease (PKD). These can all be done with a check swab sent to Langford.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Taya said:


> Yes I will. If I bred her I would also want to register them as non-active to avoid them being used for backyard breeding b


Which is exactly what you want to do with your non active who should have already been spayed.


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

Tigermoon said:


> You really ought to be asking your breeder all this and getting them to mentor you.
> 
> However:-
> 
> ...


I haven't learnt how to reply to snippets of messages yet so sorry this isn't formatted in a more logical way!!

I feel like I was wrong in making it seem that I was approaching this in a casual way. Of course I wouldn't want her bred with whatever was again or and have cats that didn't well represent all the best aspects of the breed from looks down to health.

I am trying to get my head around this repeated point of the only acceptable reason being to carry on breeding pedigree cats. Perhaps this is because I see the main purpose of breeding to produce the healthiest cats possible that make the best pets. Surely a cats value lies in its relationships with people over its ability to win prizes and be a good specimen. Would me breeding be any different from a breeder breeding a litter of which none were to be kept for further breeding and sold as non-active? If I was to take my cats to a show in future would this be a good reason to breed? I think my main reason is to produce cats that I can personally enjoy, which is just as solid as wishing to produce cats for other people or show judges to enjoy and an actual poor reason would be to make money, because kittens are cute etc.

I also was basing that statement on experience having owned cats all my life and knowing neighbours some of which had previously and currently do keep siblings/ mother and siblings. It seems there is never any promise that any cats will get along so I can see my reason of wanting a family is not a solid reason as it's not a certainty

also feeling uncomfortable for spaying her certainly was not what I was classing as a reason as you're right that would be very poor

You've made a lot of strong point that must be considered. I'd hate for her personality to change and of course I will not be breeding without the consent of her breeder. I am unsure if she will be able to mentor in the sense I believe she has only bred a handful of litters and has not bred herself with the intention on becoming an established/prefix breeder

thank you so much for taking the time to respond and I will strongly consider what you have said


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

lorilu said:


> Which is exactly what you want to do with your non active who should have already been spayed.


Unfortunately I do have not contact currently with the breeder so I can't know what her reasoning was so it's impossible to presume. Please read my post and responses fully where I have stated she will not be bred if the breeder responds to be stating she wishes to keep her on the non-active register x I'm not trying to be a shady person!


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## Taya (Jan 21, 2021)

Hey everybody. Just want to show I am listening to what’s been said!

It seems that I would need to do a lot more research particularly in formulating a budget for all the relevant tests and potential vet bills alongside costs of kittens vaccinations and neautering (can never spell it correctly haha).

Having read your replies I know realise this is no easy option, I guess it’s hard to realise the true implications when so often you just see people’s cats have accidental litters and little goes wrong. Will be scouting out other options and seeing if there’s a better way of selecting cats that will get along with her!


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

THat's really gratifying that you're taking comments on board and widening your options! We have so many new members who consider breeding and take offence at the comments advising them of the pitfalls.
Thanks for the feedback and keep us updated with your journey in search of another cat. 
I've had 4 rescue cats over the years, all lovely cats in their own ways. Good luck.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Taya said:


> Unfortunately I do have not contact currently with the breeder so I can't know what her reasoning was so it's impossible to presume. Please read my post and responses fully where I have stated she will not be bred if the breeder responds to be stating she wishes to keep her on the non-active register x I'm not trying to be a shady person!


Since you "do have not contact currently with the breeder" I'm not sure how you are going to ask them to transfer her. However her reasoning is probably that no mention was made of breeding when you brought the kitten from her. She may also be picky about who she sells active registered kittens to.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2021)

Tigermoon said:


> There is also the fact rarely spoken of that once a queen has had a litter she is different. Her character subtly changes. Its hard to explain it but it does happen.


Like a human mum too I guess. There are all kinds of biochemical changes going on.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> However her reasoning is probably that no mention was made of breeding when you brought the kitten from her


Kitten was sold underage to someone else, so hardly an ethical breeder to begin with.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Pleas make sure you have at least £3k in a back account that you have easy access to before mating a cat. Blue’s in hours c-section was over £900 nearly 2 years ago, a friends emergency c-section out of hours was £2700 when her cats uterus twisted during labour. C-sections are rare but they do happen and they are expensive. When a cat needs a c-section there is little option but to pay out, and often a cat has a c-section as they are unwell and there is no guarantee the kittens or mum will survive.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2021)

lillytheunicorn said:


> Pleas make sure you have at least £3k in a back account that you have easy access to before mating a cat. Blue's in hours c-section was over £900 nearly 2 years ago, a friends emergency c-section out of hours was £2700 when her cats uterus twisted during labour. C-sections are rare but they do happen and they are expensive. When a cat needs a c-section there is little option but to pay out, and often a cat has a c-section as they are unwell and there is no guarantee the kittens or mum will survive.


This is interesting. Are general vets capable of this procedure? Or would you get a specialist? It sounds risky.


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Douglas' Dad said:


> This is interesting. Are general vets capable of this procedure? Or would you get a specialist? It sounds risky.


Yes all vets should be capable of doing this procedure.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Douglas' Dad said:


> This is interesting. Are general vets capable of this procedure? Or would you get a specialist? It sounds risky.


I'm astonished that as a breeder you need to ask.


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## lenanowa (Apr 15, 2019)

Taya said:


> Understandable! I did not know this, I know I got my girl around 12-14 weeks but she'd already been with her previous owner for 3 meaning she can't have applied to the rules. Definitely interesting to know and I fully agree with the rules GCCF as this seems far more responsible


So you are her third home (incl the breeder)?

Honestly, doesn't sound like your girl came from a responsible breeder. On one hand it means that it might be easier for you to get her transferred because they probably mostly care about £££, but I definitely wouldn't want a person like that as a mentor, instead I would be looking to report them to Gccf.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

Douglas' Dad said:


> This is interesting. Are general vets capable of this procedure? Or would you get a specialist? It sounds risky.


A c-section is risky as they aren't generally an elective procedure, the Queen will have had complications. Often they tire out from having tried to deliver but can't for many reasons or in the case of my friend the queens uterus twisted.

Blue had one as she had been unwell and on and off IV fluids since 7 weeks pregnant. She deteriorated on day 61 so she had a semi -elective section as our vets didn't feel she would be strong enough to deliver on her own. So she was on IV fluids overnight to get her in the best possible condition before the surgery.

There is always a risk with Anaesthetic and getting the kittens to suckle is more of a challenge after c-section than normal delivery. As the normal hormones released in labour haven't been. The kittens smell funny to the Queen and the nipples may smell of the surgical prep. Queen and kittens have also both got anaesthetic drugs in their system.


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## Fendi (Nov 14, 2020)

Taya said:


> we only intend to have one litter.
> 
> We love the appearance of the silver tabbies or golden shaded but not sure if it would be worth looking for a stud if the breeding would be incompatible. Edit:*** healthy kittens would be the goal so colour is the least of our worries. Would it be best to stick with blue or cream or would there be harm in exploring other colours? (And why eager to learn!!)
> 
> .


I really don't know why people want to breed their cat for 'only one litter' I just don't get it. You have no idea what you're going to have to endure. British Shorthair cats call when on heat and their meowing is like nails being dragged down a blackboard. It happens ALL NIGHT , it's worse than having a screaming baby bc nothing will pacify it (except a stud), she can also pee in random places if she's stressed and I swear for some reason queen cats pee stink.

You won't get golden shades with cream blue cats. You need 2 golden s so you can kiss that novelty goodbye.

you also mentioned "would there be harm in exploring other colours". Your cat isn't a science experiment, get the poor girl desexed.


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## Fendi (Nov 14, 2020)

Our reasons for wanting kittens is the experience
Ahh now I see why you want ‘just one litter’. It’s the experience. Yes, nothing is more cuter than anxiously watching your queen cat in distress, calling vets to see who’s open and to take her bc the pregnancy isn’t going well for her, having her have a c section and watching your bank account take a dive in vet fees.
If of course all goes well, and she births easily there’s always the chance, and believe me it’s very common, for your kittens to fade (I’ll let u look that one up as yr so eager to learn).

I’m going to call a spade a spade and that is my strong hunch is that you only want to do this because you think you’ll make a easy and quick buck $$.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

If you read the OP's quoted messages you will note that she has listened to our comments and is considering other options. So I think your comments are a little harsh and judgemental.


Taya said:


> Hey everybody. Just want to show I am listening to what's been said!
> 
> It seems that I would need to do a lot more research particularly in formulating a budget for all the relevant tests and potential vet bills alongside costs of kittens vaccinations and neautering (can never spell it correctly haha).
> 
> Having read your replies I know realise this is no easy option, I guess it's hard to realise the true implications when so often you just see people's cats have accidental litters and little goes wrong. Will be scouting out other options and seeing if there's a better way of selecting cats that will get along with her!





Fendi said:


> Our reasons for wanting kittens is the experience
> Ahh now I see why you want 'just one litter'. It's the experience. Yes, nothing is more cuter than anxiously watching your queen cat in distress, calling vets to see who's open and to take her bc the pregnancy isn't going well for her, having her have a c section and watching your bank account take a dive in vet fees.
> If of course all goes well, and she births easily there's always the chance, and believe me it's very common, for your kittens to fade (I'll let u loom that one up as yr so eager to learn).


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## Fendi (Nov 14, 2020)

Sorry susieraninbow, i didn’t mean to be harsh, just trying to be frank and matter of fact. Unfortunately typing/writing seems to lose the lightness of my opinions. 
I’ll bear it in mind with future post. ❤


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> I'm astonished that as a breeder you need to ask.


I'm not a breeder. I think you're confusing me with someone else. I just wanted to learn about this very interesting topic from experienced owners/breeders.


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