# Thousands of cats are killed every year



## tomspud (Sep 14, 2012)

because of breeders like you.

Apparently, pointing out the truth is 'trolling'. I presume that word is used to mean 'We can't justify what we do, so we won't even try, and will instead call you a 'heretic'.'

Why are you breeding cats when there the cat shelters in this country are full of cats who desperately need homes? Why are idiots buying cats from breeders when they are only causing tens of thousands of cats to be put down every year?

What sort of cat lover would do that?

Of course, I know WHY you breed cats - to make MONEY. Some cat 'lovers' you are. Unbelievable.


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## tylow (Feb 11, 2009)

Lmao making money you've got to be joking!


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I better tell my Siamese kitten & 4 rescue/rehome moggies that their slave is an idiot, wooooooo! :thumbup:

ETA: here's a thought, instead of sounding off at breeders of registered pedigree cats, who have contracts in place & will take their kittens back if need be, how about channelling that restless energy into educating the moggy breeders who, through ignorance, accident, greed or selfishness, choose to bring even more kittens in the world. They are the real problem


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Don't get angry guys. Many people are totally convinced that breeders make a fortune. They also believe that those people who choose to own a pedigree cat as a neutered pet would suddenly take 20 or more rescue cats in if their pedigree breed didn't exist. Suggest to these same people that it should be made illegal to own any un-neutered animal with some form of registration for breeding and they scream human rights at you. It is apparently OK not to neuter a non-ped and allow it to get pregnant because that's just a 'mistake'. The vast majority of unintended feline pregnancies happen in the week before the cat was booked in to be spayed - it's quite uncanny


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

oh lol, MAS and MIS! I knew this was going to happen! ANd yet this is the same guy that has a problem with vaccinations!!! 

Not every one can have a cat from rescue - and believe me I've tried! I will explain again - not for tomspud - but for any enlightened people who are reading. My husband works in the RAF (military for hose not in the know) and even though he is willing to die protecting his country I haven't found a rescue agency yet that will let me have a cat because my hubby is a very bad man (appararnelt) AND I want an inside cat. 

Maybe when rescues stop being SO unreasonable with their rehoming policies there won't be a need for others to breeds. 

As for making money - I'm rather alot in the red because of breeding just in one year!!! I'd love to make money but it doesn't work like that for the proper breeders. I expect the bybs make money as they don't gene test, health test, vaccinate or neuter, they don't keep the kittens until at least 13 weeks and so save on food and litter, they don't worm or deflea or vet check. etc., they don't pay registration fees to GCCF, TICA or breed clubs, they don't pay stud fees, they don't consider the health of their kittens and often mate siblings, they often sell diseased and ill, poorly breed kittens far too early (under 6 weeks at times) as rare (black with blue eyes - but don't tell the new owners that they will change in a few weeks - or rare black kitten with tabby stripes but don't tell them they are ghost marking s and will fade - or very rare male torties that turn out to be female - or the very rare ginger female when 24% of reds are female)

So for those other than tomspud - please if you can get a kitten from rescue - if you can't don't feel guilty by getting a cat from another source - if tomspud had his way half of us wouldn't be allowed cats at all.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

spid said:


> oh lol, MAS and MIS! I knew this was going to happen! ANd yet this is the same guy that has a problem with vaccinations!!!
> 
> Not every one can have a cat from rescue - and believe me I've tried! I will explain again - not for tomspud - but for any enlightened people who are reading. My husband works in the RAF (military for hose not in the know) and even though he is willing to die protecting his country I haven't found a rescue agency yet that will let me have a cat because my hubby is a very bad man (appararnelt) AND I want an inside cat.
> 
> ...


Some rescues are very adamant about not letting cats go as "indoor cats". I have a cat flap, some go out and some can't be bothered. But some cats are only suited to an indoor home and the rescues should know that if they know what they are about (FIV positive with lowered immune systems etc). I'm sure if you shop around you will find pictures af charming cats and their text says 'suited to be indoors only...or 'only ever been an indoor cat'. Contact Silvana Locke at Romney House Cat Rescue or Foal Farm and bet your life they will find you a SELECTION of indoor cats. And many an outdoor cat has adapted happily to living indoors. Some of the rescues are a bit funy if you do not own your own house (not sure if you would as RAF personnel) in case you suddenly move and the cat is looking for a home again.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Some of the rescues are a bit funy if you do not own your own house (not sure if you would as RAF personnel)


If ownership of property was the issue then many military families would qualify. It's not the question most rescues ask. Why do you 'wonder' if military personel can own property? Anybody can.


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## Golgotha_tramp (Feb 27, 2011)

Agree,

Mitzi my first cat came from the local CPL with the clear intention of being an indoor cat, *one year later* I am considered by the same rescue not fit to take a cat from them as I keep my cat indoor (same with the RSPCA).

Tomspud - you are "doing your bit" "discouraging" breeders, what are you doing to encourage rescues to be more realistic in their criteria?


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## tomspud (Sep 14, 2012)

havoc said:


> Don't get angry guys. Many people are totally convinced that breeders make a fortune. They also believe that those people who choose to own a pedigree cat as a neutered pet would suddenly take 20 or more rescue cats in if their pedigree breed didn't exist. Suggest to these same people that it should be made illegal to own any un-neutered animal with some form of registration for breeding and they scream human rights at you. It is apparently OK not to neuter a non-ped and allow it to get pregnant because that's just a 'mistake'. The vast majority of unintended feline pregnancies happen in the week before the cat was booked in to be spayed - it's quite uncanny


Nice (pathetic) attempt at STRAWMAN arguments.

Did you read anything like that in my original post? Why on Earth do you think I am talking about cats being PUT DOWN, quite obviously I think cats should be neutered.

What a joke. You go off on a complete tangent - in order to avoid talking about the actual issue I raised. I wonder why...


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## tomspud (Sep 14, 2012)

spid said:


> oh lol, MAS and MIS! I knew this was going to happen! ANd yet this is the same guy that has a problem with vaccinations!!!
> 
> - if tomspud had his way half of us wouldn't be allowed cats at all.


Two more completely irrelevant strawman arguments...

What have vaccinations got to do with this?

I didn't quite understand your 'argument' as to why you can't rehome a rescue cat. Could you try explaining it a bit more clearly? (You know, in a way that actually makes sense?)


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## tomspud (Sep 14, 2012)

Golgotha_tramp said:


> Agree,
> 
> Mitzi my first cat came from the local CPL with the clear intention of being an indoor cat, *one year later* I am considered by the same rescue not fit to take a cat from them as I keep my cat indoor (same with the RSPCA).
> 
> Tomspud - you are "doing your bit" "discouraging" breeders, what are you doing to encourage rescues to be more realistic in their criteria?


More 'bait and switch'. People who BUY cats from breeders are not doing so because they can't get a rescue cat, they are doing so because they are pretentious idiots who think that a cat is a toy, or a status symbol, because they paid a lot of money for them. Just go to any 'cat show' or 'dog show' and look at the owners. Need I say more? Cats are not toys, they are not for display, they don't make YOU look like a better person.

Just look in the back of any of the cat magazines that you'll find down your local vet's, full of adverts for 'bengals' and 'ragdolls', etc.
Don't tell me, those people breed cats out of the goodness of their hearts, actually LOSE money doing so, and can't adopt rescue cats for some reason.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Okay - I'll bite - NOt sure how it wasn't clear but . . . I have been to about 35 rescues over 20 odd years - THE SECOND they know my hubby is in the forces we AREN'T ALLOWED to adopt - I have had some people being downright rude to me all because my husband is in the forces. Some have even said they 'knew' we would just abandon the cat the second we moved.  Forces addresses are well known in the areas they are in and as soon as they catch wind of where we live the phone goes down.

Is that clear enough? - because my husband is in the forces we ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ADOPT A RESCUE CAT. END OF. 

If that doesn't make sense to you I suggest you take it up with the many rescues that refuse to let us have a cat. (MIS again)


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## Golgotha_tramp (Feb 27, 2011)

tomspud said:


> People who BUY cats from breeders are not doing so because they can't get a rescue cat


But they are. I'm one of them, as you can see from my above post.

It would be good to explore your opinions and feelings without emotive an inflammotary statements. That way people wouldn't consider you trolling.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Tomspud, what do you believe should be done about all the moggy breeders out there? They outnumber pedigree breeders significantly, ergo, they are the major contributors to the rescue crisis


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Tomspud I am actually going to try and explain some of this.
If all pet cats were neutered then there wouldn't be the thousands in rescues and being euthanased. Rescues DO refuse many perfectly good homes. It's individuals within rescues who decide and they can project their own prejudices in making their decisions. 

In terms of numbers I can only tell you what vets tell me. One from a very affluent area said that they'll see one pedigree in 300 cats. That's one third of one percent of cats are deliberately bred pedigree cats among those you'd expect to have 'status' pets and presumably a much lower percentage in less affluent areas on your reasoning. If all pedigree breeding stopped right now it honestly wouldn't make any difference to the numbers in rescue and being put down.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

_wow, how can you say people that buy pedigree cats are idiots !! i have 5 pedigree cats, i didnt buy them to as a status symbol or a toy, i brought them because the breeders had spent years trying to make the breeds better more healthier, they were all vet checked vaccinated, micro chipped and i had a very good idea of how these kittens would turn out, the breeders put a lot of time and effort into these kittens,as spid has said many rescues over the years have said no, as we used to live on a busy road, so in the end we looked for good breeders , we found good breeders who have become good friends who we can turn to if we feel we need to, they are there for any advise or help. _


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

tomspud said:


> Don't tell me, those people breed cats out of the goodness of their hearts, actually LOSE money doing so, and can't adopt rescue cats for some reason.


It's probably pointless telling you this and why should you believe me anyway? I've bred a particular pedigree breed for over 25 years. For the last several years we've kept very detailed accounts. On average we spend 25% of our (admittedly, not very high) net income, per month, on our cats/their kittens. Our financial loss year on year, taking into account the sale of kittens, is large and I can tell you that that situation is fairly representative of the vast majority of breeders. On the other hand....

I took two 12 week old kittens for vaccinations this morning. Conversation turned to my vet telling he's seen a big increase in people bringing in non-pedigree kittens (usually with a health problem; less uusally for vaccination), when neutering/spaying is mentioned, respond with "oh, we're not going to bother". When asked what will they do with the kittens the answer is invariably "we'll advertise them on Gumtree for sale". Just this week he has had to put to sleep two litters of non-pedigree kittens at a few days old, owned by such people, where the mother had no milk or had abandoned the kittens. Both litters were beyond the point of help (and believe me, my vet, his partner and their staff are well known in the area for taking on and saving waifs and strays) being severely dehydrated and at the point of death... and all because both clients didn't want to pay for veterinary help. Much cheaper of course just to have the kittens put to sleep.


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## ChinaBlue (Feb 3, 2008)

Simply put (hopefully you will understand this!) the big rescues like RSPCA and CPL *WON'T* place a cat with anyone wanting an indoor cat (because they may live on a busy road), often might not home to people who are out working full time, or people living in flats or rented accommodation. To be fair this varies slightly from region to region and branch to branch but overall nowadays it is very tough to get a cat from the two main rescues.

Private rescues may be slightly easier but there could be perhaps issues arising out of these as a lot of private rescues don't have a lot of funding and so a few cats _may_ go without being neutered/vaccinated on the understanding new owners will do it - and not all will! Though on the whole private rescues do great work.

Would add that an awful lot of breeders will have/or have had pet moggies alongside their pedigrees and these same breeders will, as another poster has pointed out, take back any of their own that may need rehoming. Also a lot of breeders will often volunteer/homecheck for rescues if called upon.

Do you volunteer or help any rescues?


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## Ang2 (Jun 15, 2012)

Well, I have 3 pedigrees and 7 rescues - so how do you see me?


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

tomspud said:


> More 'bait and switch'. *People who BUY cats from breeders are not doing so because they can't get a rescue cat, they are doing so because they are pretentious idiots who think that a cat is a toy, or a status symbol, because they paid a lot of money for them*. Just go to any 'cat show' or 'dog show' and look at the owners.


tomspud your "statements" are so wide of the mark they are out of sight  I have had 3 moggies and after i felt ready to adopt another I went along to my local rescue to see if there was a cat that could be happy with me,only to be informed that as I wanted an indoor cat they could not help me.
Okay I thought, a bit extreme but I'll just go somewhere else, I tried countless rescue centres and was told the same thing,all cats must have direct access to outdoors.
I didnt want a "pedigree"cat but I was given no choice other than to go down that route.
What would you have people do when turned down by rescues because of "idiotic rules"?Support the careless/thoughtless who either dont bother to neuter their cats or those who deliberatley breed their moggies and churn out litter after litter at 6/8 weeks old 

These are the people your remarks should be directed at,they are the ones responsible for filling the rescues with unwanted kittens.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

havoc said:


> If ownership of property was the issue then many military families would qualify. It's not the question most rescues ask. Why dwhether they can rent it from to you 'wonder' if military personel can own property? Anybody can.


I wondered if their housing was provided by the RAF that's all. I have no idea what they do about accommodation and whether they rent or buy. If they are moved around I would have thought renting was more usual. When I started fostering, one of the first things I was asked was if I owned my own place. Does that answer your question?


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Golgotha_tramp said:


> But they are. I'm one of them,


another one here, I couldn't adopt from CPL or RSPCA as I am out at work all day and wanted an indoor cat.

I looked on Pets4Homes and found my girl just happened she is a wonderful pedigree.

Where is the popcorn smilie


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Calvine said:


> I wondered if their housing was provided by the RAF that's all. I have no idea what they do about accommodation and whether they rent or buy. If they are moved around I would have thought renting was more usual. When I started fostering, one of the first things I was asked was if I owned my own place. Does that answer your question?


If you are married (only married - living in sin doesn't count) then you are entitled to be provided with a 'married quarter' for which you pay rent and pay the bills (just saying that because lots of people seem to think we get free accommodation). Depending on rank you may move every 18 months (we do) or stay in one place for 10 years. Buying every 18 months isn't feasible and wages* aren't* high enough to buy down south anyway. However, many people do own a house as well, we have a 3 bed mid terrace in Ipswich, to try to stay on the 'market'. We have lived in 14 houses in the last 22 years. But the animals always come with us.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

If you are looking for a moggie housecat (indoor cat) there are rescues which will help and in fact actively looking for homes for cats which prefer the indoor life. Romney House Cat Rescue and Foal Farm will find you one...vaccinated, spayed, vet-treated etc etc.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Calvine said:


> If you are looking for a moggie housecat (indoor cat) there are rescues which will help and in fact actively looking for homes for cats which prefer the indoor life. Romney House Cat Rescue and Foal Farm will find you one...vaccinated, spayed, vet-treated etc etc.


I have my cats now - many thanks for the advice though - when we come out of the RAF I *WILL* be looking to rehome a couple of unhomable ferals - but I will support which ever independent cattery is local to me. BUT . . . I will also continue breeding my peds. Romney is no-where near me.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> When I started fostering, one of the first things I was asked was if I owned my own place.


Spid has already sort of answered. If the question is 'do you own your own house' then she could quite honestly answer yes. I owned two when my OH was in the military - still do and live in one now. 'Do you own the property you're living in?' is a different question altogether. Sometimes I did live in married quarters - with my animals and even continued to breed cats in them


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

havoc said:


> Spid has already sort of answered. If the question is 'do you own your own house' then she could quite honestly answer yes. I owned two when my OH was in the military - still do and live in one now. 'Do you own the property you're living in?' is a different question altogether. Sometimes I did live in married quarters - with my animals and even continued to breed cats in them


Did I know you were ex military? Which force?

p.s. - I love the tangent we have wandered off on!


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Just talking about the buying a ped cat perspective a minute...

I bought my ped cats because I wanted healthy, well socialised cats that would adapt to my lifestyle which includes a dog. If I got a moggy, I would be playing a guessing game on their health and ability to live in my home.

THAT is why people buy ped pets. Not because they are a symbol. If they were, then I would be driving an expensive car & wearing designer clothes but I don't cos I am not that sort of person.

As for breeding, first of all there are cat lovers who want healthy & well socialised pets like I did so breeding peds is far more ethical than where most of the cats in rescue originate from. Also, many of these breeds would die out if they were not bred. I know there are a few close to dying out at the moment due to the recession.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Did I know you were ex military? Which force?
> p.s. - I love the tangent we have wandered off on!


Not fair to wander too far off topic but I favour pale blue  I do think there's a relevance though if rescue centres are making value judgements on potential homes. If living in rented accommodation is a bar, is it because they believe landlords won't be happy or the rather nastier assumption that there's an 'affordability' issue.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

havoc said:


> Not fair to wander too far off topic but I favour pale blue  :thumbup: I do think there's a relevance though if rescue centres are making value judgements on potential homes. If living in rented accommodation is a bar, is it because they believe landlords won't be happy or the rather nastier assumption that there's an 'affordability' issue.


Apparently - as it was explained to me in Northumberland by the very nasty CPL lady- every single cat and dog that is abandoned in the area is because 'all you bloody people' (meaning RAF as that was the base there) leave all their animals behind every single time they move. Nothing to do with rented, nothing to do with landlord consent, shouldn't be affordability (he's an h'officer); just pure prejudice. Had exactly the same conversation with the RSPCA before we were even engaged - just the fact that he turned up ti pick me up in his uniform meant the pice of paper I was about to sign for ownership of a puppy was whipped away from under my nose and we were refused. Again just pure prejudice.

I'm sure many places are worried about landlord consent - but as the average age for a first time buyer is now 35  many, many people are in rented now fro lots longer. If the rescues don't rehome because of that they are cutting off their own noses. It is a silly situation - many would love to take on a rescue but are pushed to the Preloved or Gumtrees of this world or if they are lucky to us.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

tomspud said:


> because of breeders like you.
> 
> Apparently, pointing out the truth is 'trolling'. I presume that word is used to mean 'We can't justify what we do, so we won't even try, and will instead call you a 'heretic'.'
> 
> ...


So in the same way then people should not have children as worldwide there are thousands and thousands that need adopting....



Ang2 said:


> Well, I have 3 pedigrees and 7 rescues - so how do you see me?


You bad person, you should have adopted ten not just seven


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> Apparently - as it was explained to me in Northumberland by the very nasty CPL lady- every single cat and dog that is abandoned in the area is because 'all you bloody people' (meaning RAF as that was the base there) leave all their animals behind every single time they move


Would be nice to know who really is at fault then. So far it's the breeders and RAF personel who never take their pets with them when they move. How many animals end up in rescue each year? It is easier for the feeble of mind to have a single point of blame but surely even they can see the numbers just don't add up 

Have to admit to being nearly as bad the other way round sometimes. I would never let certain people have a kitten from me - remember my cake fork test


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

havoc said:


> Would be nice to know who really is at fault then. So far it's the breeders and RAF personel who never take their pets with them when they move. How many animals end up in rescue each year? It is easier for the feeble of mind to have a single point of blame but surely even they can see the numbers just don't add up
> 
> Have to admit to being nearly as bad the other way round sometimes. I would never let certain people have a kitten from me -* remember my cake fork test*


I don't it sounds....... interesting, you don't beat them with a cake fork or anything do you?


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

In one thread about kitten visits and the supplying of refreshments I mentioned I always provided coffee and cake and wouldn't consider anyone a fit owner unless they recognised and used a cake fork  If nothing else, mentioning it should give succour to those who have a set idea about the sort of people who choose to have pedigree pets


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

I've stopped reading p. 2 so if anyone else asked this, I apologize, but I'm pressed for time and I just must ask:


Tomspud, if you think that it is avoiding the topic to talk about cats being put down, then why the F did you title your thread "Thousands of cats are killed every year?"


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

He hasn't been online for hours, I suspect he threw in the handgranade just to get attention.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Indeed - as I imagined. MIS (Mildly Ironic Smirk - for those not in the know)


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

spid said:


> : MIS (Mildly Ironic Smirk - for those not in the know)


That would be me


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Cookieandme said:


> That would be me


That's okay - I invented it two weeks ago - so am trying to get it taken up - I want it to go viral!!!!!


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

tomspud said:


> More 'bait and switch'. People who BUY cats from breeders are not doing so because they can't get a rescue cat, they are doing so because they are pretentious idiots who think that a cat is a toy, or a status symbol, because they paid a lot of money for them. Just go to any 'cat show' or 'dog show' and look at the owners. Need I say more? Cats are not toys, they are not for display, they don't make YOU look like a better person.
> 
> Just look in the back of any of the cat magazines that you'll find down your local vet's, full of adverts for 'bengals' and 'ragdolls', etc.
> Don't tell me, those people breed cats out of the goodness of their hearts, actually LOSE money doing so, and can't adopt rescue cats for some reason.


I think this is a very harsh, blanket statement, don't you? Why join a pet lovers forum purely to cause arguments and make members feel belittled by your frankly uneducated, unresearched claims 

My take is this (whether you want it or not!):

I'm very much pro-rescue, and work at a rescue centre but like others have said, it's not at all easy to get a rescue cat. I can't begin to describe the emotional upset I went through to adopt Spooks, and to be quite frank, if I hadn't have been a respected volunteer at the shelter I got him from, I would NEVER have got him.

My frustration lies with people who breed moggies, because they 
a) want to see what the babies would look like
b) want to make money on the side
c) are just too lazy to neuter their pets

So many kittens have been dumped on us, and yes it's a huge problem but NONE of our kittens have been pedigrees, and none of them have been bred responsibly.

A good breeder is one who breeds to produce good lines of kittens, who health-test, vaccinate and register their animals. They're people who don't make money- if anything they lose money- and they would be willing to take their cats back at any point if needs be.

There are good breeders out there- don't put them into one single box!!

Plus, you seem to imply that all rescue centres kill their animals. They don't. At the SAA we wouldn't dream of putting healthy animals to sleep- a few of our cats are with us as other centres were going to do just that. We put truly 'unrehomeable' cats into our feral colony and care for them for the rest of their lives, and have dedicated fosterers who are willing to work with difficult animals.

Our longest stay animal is a rabbit who has been at the centre for almost 2 years, but we haven't given up on him and continue to care for him. DON'T MAKE JUDGEMENTS WITHOUT KNOWING THE FULL STORY!! :mad2:


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## Treaclesmum (Sep 26, 2011)

I have always had moggies, but having lost one to a car accident, I would be looking at peds next time, because I would want a breed that was calm and happy to remain an indoor cat... you can't guarantee the personality of a moggie.


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## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

I have three mixed breeds or moggies. 

I love them dearly I really do, their my world! 

But my next cat will be a purebred because I want to know its personality and health.

Horris is aggressive I have no idea what might have happened to him before I took him in. Hes a bully, you cant hold him for very long, forgot trying to clip his nails you enter world war three!!

Soda is very aloof and really could care sod all if you fell down the stairs.

Decker is very people loving and will fallow you from room to room watching you she just isnt very cuddly but will sleep on your bed with you.

I will waiting till they pass before I get another cat as I have found three is my limit.


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## jo-pop (May 27, 2011)

tomspud said:


> More 'bait and switch'. People who BUY cats from breeders are not doing so because they can't get a rescue cat, they are doing so because they are pretentious idiots who think that a cat is a toy, or a status symbol, because they paid a lot of money for them. Just go to any 'cat show' or 'dog show' and look at the owners. Need I say more? Cats are not toys, they are not for display, they don't make YOU look like a better person.
> 
> Just look in the back of any of the cat magazines that you'll find down your local vet's, full of adverts for 'bengals' and 'ragdolls', etc.
> Don't tell me, those people breed cats out of the goodness of their hearts, actually LOSE money doing so, and can't adopt rescue cats for some reason.


But look at all the rosettes he has won! That makes me look great, which of course was my sole intention when I paid all that money for him! 

Oh dear...


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## monkeymummy32 (May 22, 2012)

How many rescue cats do *you* have Tomspud?? Just curious....


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

tomspud said:


> because of breeders like you.
> 
> Apparently, pointing out the truth is 'trolling'. I presume that word is used to mean 'We can't justify what we do, so we won't even try, and will instead call you a 'heretic'.'
> 
> ...


probably because i prefer my cats to stay in and have a enclosure to be sure they are safe, which rescues do not consider a good enough home, now i think people like you should be ignored and hopefully will go away, permanently.


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## Tamiyamumma (Sep 13, 2012)

I find it awful that people who want to give a cat a loving indoor home should be turned away! I would never have thought that rescue centres would turn away people when there are so many cats needing homed x


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

Tomspud stop being so rude about my toys! If you upset them and their fur loses its shine I'll have to give them away and start all over again!!


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## oggers86 (Nov 14, 2011)

When my fiancee and I moved into our (rented) house we decided to get cats. I had been looking at different pedigree breeds for a while to find the right personality (typically) I wanted something friendly, people orientated outgoing and snuggly. We eventually seriously talked about getting Bengals as they were the kind of cats we were looking for. 

In the end our lack of money got the better of us and we went down the rescue route. I was very concerned about not being able to adopt cats as I had heard so many horror stories of people being turned down because they worked full time, rented, didn't have a cat flap, weren't married..everything that described us to a T. As it happens I needn't have worried, the CP were lovely and very accommodating. 

I went into the CP wanting to take home 12-14 week old kittens and came out with 2 nearly adult cats as they were more towards the personality I was looking for. I wasn't going to take on a rescue cat with the wrong personality, I would have waited if I needed to. 

A year on the cats are now firmly part of the family and very much loved but I am still drawn to the more vocal, people orientated breeds like Siamese, Burmese, Bengals and would love to own one in the future. However, I would also love to go into the CP and adopt the cat that has been there the longest, regardless of personality. Unfortunately, the fiancee will not entertain the idea of another cat so I can't do that. 

Not wanting a rescue animal does not make someone a bad person, the bad people are the ones who put the animals there in the first place for an unnecessary reason, be it breeding or re-homing for ridiculous reasons. 

In the future we want kids of our own, are we bad people because we want our own and do not want to adopt unless necessary? We did not cause the thousands of children to need homes, their parents who had them without a second thought are the ones who need to be frowned upon, not the rest of the world. 

This could also be applied to renting a house, by renting we are providing an income for the man that owns this house. In this current climate renters are easy enough to come by so I can't imagine he will struggle to rent it out when we buy. However, what if there wasn't? Does that mean we should rent indefinitely so that the man who owns the house gets a decent income?

It isn't fair to punish the innocent and do nothing about the guilty.


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## egyptianreggae (May 26, 2012)

Gosh, it's all a bit controversial on here today. I remember when the biggest drama in these parts was whether or not a certain cat in the Midlands had given birth


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## AlexTurley (Oct 30, 2011)

HELLO IM ONE OF YOUR 'IDIOTS'

haha seriously i havnt laughed so much in my life! 

NO my cat isnt a toy who is the idiot there - he is my baby he is always there when i get home from a long day at work were we see people wit cats ' moggies' at six months spaying but pregnant :mad2:


make me look like a better person!? really people arnt that keen on bengals and i dont care wat people think of me just wot my baby heffin thinks of me
(ps he reli isnt that bad a bengal )

i dont breed and i would never breed just coz i wouldnt have the time or money to spend but i no the reason i bought heffin was coz he was at a rubbish breeder who wanted him gone at six weeks without jabs or any contracts and he was ill! so im a idiot who cares wot other people think of me coz i wanted a kitten who was very ill and tiny and needed a loving home were he gets spoilt rotten???

i think u need a round of applause


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## BshLover84 (May 6, 2012)

I have a pedigree (mine) and moggies that i RESCUED from other people who no longer could take of them because these cats were pregnant..

The moggies have had worming, flea treament, food, litter trays & litter and now the kittens have had 2 trips to the vets to be wormed and de-flead, eating solid food, use of the litter trays, so thats all money paid out for their welfare!!

Plus mums are to be neutered..

AND my pedigree has been DNA tested, wormed, de-flead, she needs litter in her litter tray and she does need feeding so again all money out!!

So what have i gained?? no money but Alot of love from my purrfect friends...


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

To me it's clear that undesexed moggies are the issue, not responsible breeders. All my kittens leave fully vetted (including neutering) and to indoor homes, or with an enclosure. They are not free roaming, bothering neighbours or out there randomly breeding. 

Many pedigree owners will never have adopted from a rescue, they're after a certain kind of cat and there's nothing wrong with that.

Many breeders also support rescue, they just do so quietly and not shouting it from the rooftops to reap praise from others.


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

In case the OP does come back I will answer their question in very simple terms as they seem to struggle to grasp a longish post.



> Why are you breeding cats when there the cat shelters in this country are full of cats who desperately need homes?


I breed kittens not cats.

The animals euthanised are most often cats not kittens.

Many people cannot rehome a cat as adult cats very often won't mix with other adult cats, kittens on the other hand are usually tolerated by the resident adult cat.

Kittens grow into cats, but the simple use of a microchip means any kittens I breed can be returned to me at any stage in their lives and I am happy to have them back. I never want a cat I bred to end up in rescue and will accommodate them at any age and for any reason.

In 2011 there was a 12% drop in the number of pedigree cats registered in the UK by the GCCF. If pedigree breeders are responsible for the rescue problem I have heard nothing of the subsequent drop in the numbers of cats in rescues between 2010 and 2011.

For anyone with a longer attention span than the OP I had always had rescue cats until I tried to adopt a rescue (cat or kitten) in 2008 when I was refused by my local rescue as I had a 2 yr old child. So I got a Pedigree.

I think the horrific rescue situation (if OP's figures are correct) could be addressed through microchipping. If it was illegal to sell or give away a cat without a chip, backyard breeders would be forced to chip and then face the cat being returned to them when it's owners cannot cope as has not been litter trained and has awful stomach issues caused by an illness or be not being properly weaned. Not that the OP cares of course, it is as naive to think people would rehome all the rescue cats if Pedigree breeders did not exist. The OP does seem to be a lone voice criticising breeders on a cat lovers forum though, which is comforting to see.

Hopefully the OP will come back to give us the benefit of their wisdom, but this is a long thread now so I guess it will take them a long time to troll - I mean scroll - through it all.

MIS?? (trying my best Spid)


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Personally I am astonished the mods havn't kicked the OP off the forum - he/she seems to seek to be very provocatic and confrontational, and to use the forum as a platform to boast their ego.

I'm sure they either deranged, trolling or both. They popped up as a new member trying to divert the 'Leukaemia Vaccines' thread with this, didn't get the attention they wanted so started this thread.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

OrientalSlave said:


> Personally I am astonished the mods havn't kicked the OP off the forum - he/she seems to seek to be very provocatic and confrontational, and to use the forum as a platform to boast their ego.
> 
> I'm sure they either deranged, trolling or both. They popped up as a new member trying to divert the 'Leukaemia Vaccines' thread with this, didn't get the attention they wanted so started this thread.


I suspect he only comes on here when the parental lock has been left off the pc at home.


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## delca1 (Oct 29, 2011)

Sorry, that made me really :lol:


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## AlexTurley (Oct 30, 2011)

also nearly every week we hear of people on this forum that are turned down from the rescues coz they make it so darn hard to be able to rescue a cat. 
if ur working app ur no good for a cat
but if u didnt work unless retired ur also no good for the cat
if ur by a busy road and its a outdoor cat ur no good but then you cant keep a cat indoor can u 
if your in the army u cant 
:mad2:

im sure we could manage to come up with hundreds of excuses from these places the simple thing is they make it impossible


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## jenny armour (Feb 28, 2010)

i am convinced that these regulations are made by the pen pushers in the head offices of these charities. i work in the local cp charity in my town and the rules that they come out with could only be from people with nothing else to do.


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## CAPA7 (Jun 23, 2012)

tomspud said:


> People who BUY cats from breeders are not doing so because they can't get a rescue cat, they are doing so because they are pretentious idiots who think that a cat is a toy, or a status symbol, because they paid a lot of money for them. Just go to any 'cat show' or 'dog show' and look at the owners. Need I say more? Cats are not toys, they are not for display, they don't make YOU look like a better person.


That is SO incredibly a) rude, b) offensive and c) utterly ignorant.

I have two pedigree kittens but they are neither toys nor status symbols! I chose to get peds because I wanted (to some extent) to know what sort of temperament I would be getting. And this is is because, being at work all day and wanting indoor cats (because their safety is the most important aspect), I thought it would be terribly unfair to get a moggy which may turn out to be very energetic and active - and feel neglected if I am at work during the day. As a result, I decided to go for BSH since they are well suited to life in a flat and do not have high energy requirements.

During the whole process of researching and choosing the kittens, I only had their wellbeing and happiness in mind: at first I really wanted to get Bengals but they would have been unhappy as they are so energetic, so I changed MY choice of kittens so that THEY would be happy in my home. 
How does that make me an idiot?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Typical troll behaviour - he sets this up and hasn't been back since 11:58 am yesterday. He doesn't want to be called a troll but behaves like one.


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## AlexTurley (Oct 30, 2011)

ahh well we idiots  are obv to much for him haha 

:thumbup:

least we got to all vent off:arf:


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## Ingrid25 (Oct 1, 2011)

yaaaaaaay! although I'm surprised the thread hasn't been closed yet...

I really want to have a good old rant right now but I'm not going to waste my time with trolls.


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## Ian B (Jul 19, 2011)

spid said:


> Typical troll behaviour - he sets this up and hasn't been back since 11:58 am yesterday. He doesn't want to be called a troll but behaves like one.


It hasn't happened, but to paraphrase the thread title, Thousands of trolls are banned every year.

Ian


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

it is an age old arguement that will take us all round in circles, so one i no longer engage in. I respect your opinion and you beliefs Tom, now as the mature human being that I am sure you are. respect ours.. Personally I don't want a moggie, with uncertain parentage, carrying god knows what..


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## Alaskacat (Aug 2, 2010)

The Autumn 2012 Bristol Cats newsletter quotes a 2012 study into the source of UK cats. (I thought of you Tomspud). According to the data quoted from the study only 4% of UK cats come from Registered Pedigree breeders whereas 52% of UK cats come from unregistered breeders.


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

Alaskacat said:


> The Autumn 2012 Bristol Cats newsletter quotes a 2012 study into the source of UK cats. (I thought of you Tomspud). According to the data quoted from the study only 4% of UK cats come from Registered Pedigree breeders whereas 52% of UK cats come from unregistered breeders.


Goodness, does that mean 44% come from strays and ferals?


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

Nearly. 5% are bred by the owners but could be ped or non-ped.

Here is the newsletter link.
http://gallery.mailchimp.com/f25f7bdf4cd1963f2247e1c05/files/Autumn_2012_newsletter_FINAL.pdf


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> According to the data quoted from the study only 4% of UK cats come from Registered Pedigree breeders whereas 52% of UK cats come from unregistered breeders.


Do they mean kittens bred from registered pedigree cats? There's no such thing as a registered breeder in the UK. If they mean the breeders they must mean those with prefixes. I can't believe they really checked whether every registered pedigree cat in the figures was bred by a prefix holder and if they did, are moggies and pedigrees bred by non prefix holders all lumped in together?


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

the pdf wouldn't open for me.



> Nearly. 5% are bred by the owners but could be ped or non-ped.


So couldn't check this. Am so curious to know the source data behind this!


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Notnowbernard said:


> the pdf wouldn't open for me.
> 
> So couldn't check this. Am so curious to know the source data behind this!


Does this help,not sure if this is what you were looking for.


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## Notnowbernard (Jul 31, 2012)

buffie said:


> Does this help,not sure if this is what you were looking for.


Yes, that's very interesting, thanks


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Ah. Different terminology and makes more sense to me. What does absolutely astound me is the figure of 52% of cats being non-pedigree and presumably deliberately bred by people who would refer to themselves as non-pedigree _breeders_. If there are truly that many people doing so and calling themselves breeders I begin to understand why the very word can cause such an angry reaction in some.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I think that's the title the study gave them - it gives neighbours, friends and advertisements as the sources for these cats. I understood it to mean that 52% of UK cats are acquired from neighbours, friends and advertisements (and are presumably non-pedigrees, though some of the ads may claim that they are pedigree)

Liz


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I think that's the title the study gave them


I'm quite sure it is


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## izzyc (Dec 18, 2011)

Wow. How incredibly sad that according to those statistics only 15% of pet cats are from rescue.  And yet 52% are from 'family, friends and neighbours'.

If those people neutered their pets, the rescue crisis would be over.


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## Sansa (Oct 19, 2011)

izzyc said:


> Wow. How incredibly sad that according to those statistics only 15% of pet cats are from rescue.  And yet 52% are from 'family, friends and neighbours'.
> 
> If those people neutered their pets, the rescue crisis would be over.


Indeed. I'm not in the Uk, but I daresay the problem is much worse here. It makes me sad and angry at the same time to read on forums and blogs about how "our neighbour's cat hat 4 kittens again", "neutering is animal abuse", "it was a sad day when we had to have our cat spayed, we like kittens so much". Et bloody cetera, ad infinitum.

People who work for cat rescues tell me it's already orders of magnitude better than it was 20 years ago, when drowning kittens or dropping them off in the woods was just a normal part of life for every owner of a female cat. It gives me at least a little hope I'm not preaching to the deaf.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Of course these figures are only representative of those owners who are minded to take part in this sort of study. I suspect they may be skewed slightly towards the more 'interested' pet owners.


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## labydird (Aug 1, 2012)

We recently 'bought' a pedigree ex-queen from a breeder. As there are allergies in our family, this was our only option as other breeds/ mix breeds would not have been suitable. I don't think breeders make much money at all, in fact one breeder kindly broke down the expenditure on her kittens and the 'profit' at the end was minimal if any! Most do it for a love of a breed and will happily take back any unwanted kittens/ cats.


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## Britishshorthairbabies (Sep 12, 2012)

If it writes like a troll,
Reads like troll
Must be a troll! 

Aw, how cute! You think I care.

As for peds making u look good u havent seen my hair and bags under my eyes when my very expensive, very stylish vogue bsh has spent the night kneeding my head and waking me up with his porsche level purr. But hay I paid top pounds for that... :ciappa:


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## dougal22 (Jun 18, 2010)

Aaawwww, come back tomspud (Mr Potato Head)

Lots of people have gone to the trouble of replying to you, and you don't bother to come back  What a shame. A big loss to the forum 

I agree with you on some points. My cats are a status symbol; I bought them all as they enhance my home, they compliment the decor, they look as stunning, sleek and gorgeous as their owner.

All of the pedigree cat breeders I know are millionaires :lol::lol::lol:


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

Just read this post, what a very uneducated man this potato head (Tomspud) must be, sounding off before he knows anything about breeding.

It certainly isn't a get rich quick or even get rich at all scheme, we have been breeding 3 years and are still in the red, there is no money to be made in breeding, but there is a lot of love, care and devotion, at times there is a lot of stress when caring for the mum giving birth, caring for kittens if the mother cat rejects them, massive vet fees when things go wrong. Sleepless nights etc.

Before even thinking of making money there is money to be spent such as £200 stud fees, vet fees for snap testing before going to stud, vaccinations and health checks to make sure the Queen is fit and well enough to go to stud, when kittens are here their vaccinations and health checks have to be paid for, worming and micro chipping for their new owners too, registering them and supplying pedigree papers,paying for food, litter, beds, climbers, food dishes etc (they don't last forever) the list goes on....

The moggies in rescue centres are occasionally due to an owner dying, becoming too ill to care, maybe the cat has strayed but many are through ignorance and also cruelty from their inferior human. Many moggy is left un neutered, for every female unspeyed cat and all her offspring she is capable of producing 400,000 kittens in seven years if all her offspring and their offspring are not speyed/neutered. 

So before throwing your weight around with the caring and devoted Breeder why not try to educate these very ignorant, uneducated owners of these moggies and yes sometimes pedigrees of the BYBs who let their cats out un neutered to get pregnant or have accidental matings etc? 

I take it you do help out at rescue centres and don't just shout your mouth off and dictate to others.


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