# Lungworm



## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Please make sure you treat your dogs for lungworm, this is fast becoming a serious problem in the UK with dogs affected all over the country. I swap worming products once a year to ensure my dogs have been treated for pretty much everything, and it also helps prevent parasites building up a resistance to any one treatment.

Lungworms can be picked up from dogs eating snails and slugs, but also from their trail, for example, if a slug/snail goes across a dogs water bowl. It can also be picked up from your dog eating the faeces of another host animal, fox poo, sheep poo etc. Don't be complacent, this is a killer so make sure you treat your dog, and other pets/animals effectively to guard against it.

I nicked this list off a friend of mine which gives a brief run down of the different treatments available, and what/how they are effective:

_Drontal Plus will cover all intestinal worms found here in the UK, but does not touch Heart/Lung worms, or anything else such as ticks or fleas.

It appears Panacur is fine for Round worms and Tape worms. It will eliminate Lungworm, but cannot be used as a preventative. To get rid of Lungworm it takes at least a week's course rather than a single dose.

Milbemax Like Panacur is a broad spectrum wormer which can also be used as a preventative for Lungworm, in normal doses. But again like Panacur needs high doses if the worm has become established. Milbemax should NEVER be used for Collie breeds, and can be a problem with other breeds, so needs monitoring (as any medication should be.)

Advocate can be used as a cure, and is again a broad spectrum wormer and also controls fleas, ear mites sarcoptic mange and demodicosis, but to my knowledge does not touch Ticks or I think Tape worms.

Frontline controls fleas and ticks but does not touch worms._

Final note, read up on the products you are using, some are less effective than others. You may need a veterinary prescription to order online, your vet should issue these without any problems, without charge or for a small charge only. If not, shop around for a different vet, and compare prices of the different products. The stuff off the shelf at any pet store is ineffective against pretty much everything.

Natural foods that help guard against infestation include garlic, pineapple, and to a lesser extent, mint, fenugreek and turmeric.

Edited to remove the part about Advocate being used as a preventative, as, although it is stated as being a preventative on several sources, it isn't stated as such on Bayer's own website, nor is it listed as being a preventative treatment with the list of active ingredients. If in doubt, make sure you seek advice from your vet in the first instance.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Advocate can be used both as a preventative and cure, and is again a broad spectrum wormer and also controls fleas, ear mites sarcoptic mange and demodicosis, but to my knowledge does not touch Ticks or I think Tape worms.


Bayer Animal Health: Welcome to Advocate®/Advantage multi®

This is the information on Advocate

It *prevents* heartworm, *treats* lungworm


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

This is why I'm having trouble what does what for what etc. My vet charges £10 for a prescription buy I'm not sure how many advocates you can buy at a time. Works out no cheaper though. My last vet said don't bother re lungworm unless you know your dog eats soil or slugs etc but I will ask my new one next week.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Helbo said:


> Bayer Animal Health: Welcome to Advocate®/Advantage multi®
> 
> This is the information on Advocate
> 
> It *prevents* heartworm, *treats* lungworm


Heartworm is another term for lungworm, it's referred to as 'French Heartworm'


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

GoldenShadow said:


> This is why I'm having trouble what does what for what etc. My vet charges £10 for a prescription buy I'm not sure how many advocates you can buy at a time. Works out no cheaper though. My last vet said don't bother re lungworm unless you know your dog eats soil or slugs etc but I will ask my new one next week.


As long as you're using Advocate at least once a year, and making sure you use one of the other wormers like Panacur that is a broad spectrum treatment and covers the rest of the worms/parasites, along with an appropriate flea/tick treatment if necessary, you should be fine. I'm just trying to raise awareness really that this is becoming more and more of a problem in the UK.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> As long as you're using Advocate at least once a year, and making sure you use one of the other wormers like Panacur that is a broad spectrum treatment and covers the rest of the worms/parasites, along with an appropriate flea/tick treatment if necessary, you should be fine. I'm just trying to raise awareness really that this is becoming more and more of a problem in the UK.


Yeah I think wormer wise I would stick with drontal as Rupert is used to that whereas the Milbemax ones are so small and fiddly I kept dropping Milo's and I'm more likely to lose them 

Plus being 25kg+ dogs you need two tablets which costs at least a tenna per dog anyway, would rather fork out on the spot ons I *think*.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

does advocate only do upto 40kg weight for dogs?


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Heartworm is another term for lungworm, it's referred to as 'French Heartworm'


Actually no

Heartworm (Dirofilaria immitis) is a parasitic roundworm spread from host to host via mosquito bite. Although the infection starts in the heart, it does spread to the lungs and create similar symptoms as lungworm. But the parasites live in the heart.

Lungworm (Oslerus osleri) - the parasites live in the lungs and it ingested into the host through an infected larvae (i.e. eating a slug/animal poo that's infected.)

Here you go Heart / Lung Worm - Nitroline Blues


Therefore Advocate PREVENTS Heartworm, TREATS lungworm.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

I think (don't know so if you're worried I'd ask your vet and not rely on internet forum posts) that the only way to prevent lungworm is to watch your dog and make sure they don't eat anything that could contain the infected larvae. 

If you think they have, then using advocate may help to treat the infection, but it won't prevent your dog from getting it. Therefore, if your dog eats a slug i'd call your vet for advice. 


I realise this thread is trying to raise awareness of a terrible disease, but honestly, if you're worried - ask your vet. You'll get more accurate information than online.


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

I use Advocate monthly to prevent lungworm as Ollie can tend to eat snails, so it's not worth the risk.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Helbo said:


> I think (don't know so if you're worried I'd ask your vet and not rely on internet forum posts) that the only way to prevent lungworm is to watch your dog and make sure they don't eat anything that could contain the infected larvae.
> 
> If you think they have, then using advocate may help to treat the infection, but it won't prevent your dog from getting it. Therefore, if your dog eats a slug i'd call your vet for advice.
> 
> I realise this thread is trying to raise awareness of a terrible disease, but honestly, if you're worried - ask your vet. You'll get more accurate information than online.


Maybe this is why my old vet said don't bother unless you see them eating soil/slugs snails or strongly suspect they are...


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2011)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> Heartworm is another term for lungworm, it's referred to as 'French Heartworm'


Ehem

Heart worm: Dirofilaria immitis, spread by mosquitoes

Lung worm: Angiostrongylus vasorum spread by slugs and snails.

As Bayer is a multi national company, I think they may mean true heartworm and not French heartworm 
Bayer Animal Health: Welcome to Advocate®/Advantage multi®


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> I use Advocate monthly to prevent lungworm as Ollie can tend to eat snails, so it's not worth the risk.


Bayer' (the makers of advocate) own website states advocate treats lungworm, it does not prevent it

Please don't get lulled into a false sense of security. Even treating with advocate you need to be on the lookout for lungworm symptoms between tablets.

Bayer Animal Health: Welcome to Advocate®/Advantage multi®


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Helbo said:


> Bayer' (the makers of advocate) own website states advocate treats lungworm, it does not prevent it
> 
> Please don't get lulled into a false sense of security. Even treating with advocate you need to be on the lookout for lungworm symptoms between tablets.
> 
> Bayer Animal Health: Welcome to Advocate®/Advantage multi®


Is Milbemax the same re lungworm? I think it is but I get so confused 

Can I ask what you flea/worm with?


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion - I know you're intentions were good, but you need to make sure the information you're spreading is accurate before you post online. 

Lungworm is terrible and on the rise this time of year

Advocate is a good multi-treatment for dogs

But it does not PREVENT lungworm. It may be something your vet gives you to treat the early stages but you should ask your vets advice if you suspect lungworm.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

blade eats grass and soil off our garden.
do u think i should be treating him with advocate?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Helbo said:


> Actually no
> 
> Heartworm (Dirofilaria immitis) is a parasitic roundworm spread from host to host via mosquito bite. Although the infection starts in the heart, it does spread to the lungs and create similar symptoms as lungworm. But the parasites live in the heart.
> 
> ...





Helbo said:


> I think (don't know so if you're worried I'd ask your vet and not rely on internet forum posts) that the only way to prevent lungworm is to watch your dog and make sure they don't eat anything that could contain the infected larvae.
> 
> If you think they have, then using advocate may help to treat the infection, but it won't prevent your dog from getting it. Therefore, if your dog eats a slug i'd call your vet for advice.
> 
> I realise this thread is trying to raise awareness of a terrible disease, but honestly, if you're worried - ask your vet. You'll get more accurate information than online.


I'd let Bayer know then that they've got it wrong 

What is lungworm? Angiostrongylus vasorum (also known as French Heartworm)

Helbo, this was meant to be a helpful post after reading (worryingly) about a few dogs that have been affected, not a slanging match about just how many parasitic varieties I can name. If you have issue with what I've posted a slightly more helpful attitude would have been appreciated, or a pm, and not the condescending lecture I seem to have been given 

Sometimes I wonder why I bother 

Goldenshadow, I would use Advocate once a year and not just rely on Drontal. Parasites can and do build up a resistance to treatments, I swap over once a year to use another wormer/flea/tick treatment, to try and cover all the bases and stop the local nasties building up resistance to any one kind of treatment.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Is Milbemax the same re lungworm? I think it is but I get so confused
> 
> Can I ask what you flea/worm with?


I use Drontal Plus for worming Charlie

I give Charlie a crushed clove of garlic in his food twice a week. This is something I'm trying this summer as I'd prefer not to put too many chemicals in/on my dog if I can help it.

If I were going camping or anything I'd probably use frontline spot-on


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2011)

Helbo said:


> Actually no
> 
> Heartworm (Dirofilaria immitis) is a parasitic roundworm spread from host to host via mosquito bite. Although the infection starts in the heart, it does spread to the lungs and create similar symptoms as lungworm. But the parasites live in the heart.
> 
> ...


Does advocate treat Oslerus osler it says in the literature Angiostrongylus vasorum? 

http://www.ivis.org/advances/Parasit_Bowman/ddb_resp2/ivis.pdf
The life cycle of Oslerus osleri has been shown to be direct. Dogs are probably commonly infected as puppies
by the transmission of larvae in sputum by the licking and cleaning of the mother or through regurgitated food


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> I'd let Bayer know then that they've got it wrong
> 
> What is lungworm? Angiostrongylus vasorum (also known as French Heartworm)
> 
> ...


I was not meaning to seem unhelpful or start a slanging match, as you put it. It's your replies to me that have been argumentative and more personal than they should have been in my opinion. I was only trying to help people get the correct information.

But Heartworm and Lungworm (aka French Heartworm) ARE different parasites.

Bayer don't have it wrong - as you're argumentative reply states. They are right. Thats an accurate description of lungworm no doubt, and lungworm is also knows as french heartworm, but thats different to HEARTWORM.

I said in my posts that your intentions were good and that this thread was meant to be helpful, I was just trying to make it more accurate.

I'll repeat, Advocate prevents heartworm, treats lungworm. If they weren't different Bayer wouldn't discuss them both surely.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

rona said:


> Does advocate treat Oslerus osler it says in the literature Angiostrongylus vasorum?
> 
> http://www.ivis.org/advances/Parasit_Bowman/ddb_resp2/ivis.pdf
> The life cycle of Oslerus osleri has been shown to be direct. Dogs are probably commonly infected as puppies
> by the transmission of larvae in sputum by the licking and cleaning of the mother or through regurgitated food


You're right - i should have put Angiostrongylus vasorum to avoid confusion, this is more accurate for dogs rather than the general parasite family name.

I was just trying to show they are different in a hurry


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Helbo said:


> I was not meaning to seem unhelpful or start a slanging match, as you put it.
> 
> But Heartworm and Lungworm (aka French Heartworm) ARE different parasites.
> 
> Bayer don't have it wrong - as you're argumentative reply states. They are right. Thats an accurate description of lungworm no doubt, but thats different to HEARTWORM


It did come across as a teensy bit slap of the wrists 

Look, I cross posted this because of the worrying increase in French Heartworm/Lungworm, whatever you want to call it. Someone had a springer spaniel pick this up and very nearly died, and Advocate seems to be the treatment people are being recommended by vets, rightly or wrongly to treat and prevent lungworm. I'm actually of the opinion, as you've posted, having read an awful lot more, that it isn't preventable, only treatable. I'd still say that you need to make sure you use a prescription wormer/parasite treatment (such as Panacur, Advocate, Milbemax (except for collie breeds)) rather than stuff from the pet shop, and I would also still suggest that you swap at least once a ear, as not all treatments cover all types of parasite.

There seems to be an awful lot of confusion about what treats what, how you can prevent some things, and part of that confusion seems to have come about because of the name 'heartworm'.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

blade100 said:


> blade eats grass and soil off our garden.
> do u think i should be treating him with advocate?


If you suspect lungworm go see your vet

Advocate is a good all round tablet - ask your vet to explain to you what it covers. I think you'll need a prescription to use it anyway. I don't know for sure - I don't use it


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

I kept meaning to post this that I am about to say, this is my experience recently.

Rehomed Rocky in January this year, from Surrey.
Rocky had an occasional cough, when eating, drinking sometimes when exercising. Was not serious enough to be kennel cough as we had that in the others last year so recognise the symptoms.
Put it down to perhaps the change of enviorment and food etc.
But then we decided off to the vets. Vet said possibly he just has a weak oesophagus, but had a look as far as he can see I guess and nothing visible. Checked for heart murmur as they can cause coughs. Finally he says lets use advocate and rule out lungworm. So off we go with the pack of three.
I treat Percy and Rocky.
Just this week we notice, havent heard Rocky cough for ages, its weird how sometimes you dont notice the absence of something. And I must stress how occasional this cough was.
My belief is Rocky DID have lungworm and the vet presribing advocate potentially saved his life.
Needless to say I will now be reconsidering my treatments for the all the dogs.


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Helbo said:


> If you suspect lungworm go see your vet
> 
> Advocate is a good all round tablet - ask your vet to explain to you what it covers. I think you'll need a prescription to use it anyway. I don't know for sure - I don't use it


Advocate is a spot on I think 

Doesn't do more general worms I don't think though hence most use something like Drontal alongside it.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

Sleeping_Lion said:


> It did come across as a teensy bit slap of the wrists
> 
> Look, I cross posted this because of the worrying increase in French Heartworm/Lungworm, whatever you want to call it. Someone had a springer spaniel pick this up and very nearly died, and Advocate seems to be the treatment people are being recommended by vets, rightly or wrongly to treat and prevent lungworm. I'm actually of the opinion, as you've posted, having read an awful lot more, that it isn't preventable, only treatable. I'd still say that you need to make sure you use a prescription wormer/parasite treatment (such as Panacur, Advocate, Milbemax (except for collie breeds)) rather than stuff from the pet shop, and I would also still suggest that you swap at least once a ear, as not all treatments cover all types of parasite.
> 
> There seems to be an awful lot of confusion about what treats what, how you can prevent some things, and part of that confusion seems to have come about because of the name 'heartworm'.


I agree and I think this should have been the advice given in the first place.

Perhaps it was a slap on the wrist, and I'm sorry if it came across badly, but I was worried about people getting misleading information on such a serious issue. I'd hate for someone to think they're protecting they're dog from lungworm by using Advocate and not be on the watch for lungworm symptoms because they assume they've got it covered.

I agree people need to be using proper medication for their dogs rather than generic store bought treatments - and I think the best bet is to go talk to your vet about what medication they'd recommend for what.

To clear up any confusion once and for all (although I think Rona said it more concisely).

Advocate does prevents heartworm (that comes from mosquito bites). Bayer state that on their website.

In a separate line of information (and therefore treating them as two separate infections) Bayer state that Advocate treats lungworm (that comes from slugs, animal poop etc), and therefore I think it may be a vets first prescription in the early stages of infection if the lungworm is caught early enough.

As you've now realised from further reading - lungworm can't really be prevented, but if caught as early as possible, the dog may only need Advocate to treat the problem before it gets too serious.

Sorry for any bad feeling caused Sleeping_Lion


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Are Advocate and Advantix different? Advantix is giving me links from BayerAnimal Advocate looks a similar pipette but doesn't bring anything BayerAnimal up?

ETA: Gosh looks like Bayer do Advantage too 

How are you meant to know which to use if they offer all these different ones and not one or two for everything, big bug bear of mine that


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Advocate is a spot on I think
> 
> Doesn't do more general worms I don't think though hence most use something like Drontal alongside it.


I only use Drontal, but if I were going to use more drugs (tablet or spot-on treatments) on my dog I'd go talk to my vet.


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## Helbo (Sep 15, 2010)

GoldenShadow said:


> Are Advocate and Advantix different? Advantix is giving me links from BayerAnimal Advocate looks a similar pipette but doesn't bring anything BayerAnimal up?


Advantix only covers things like fleas, ticks and flies...

Advocate also covers some parasites

I know I keep repeating this, but If you're going to use either of these I'd ask your vet for advice first


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## GoldenShadow (Jun 15, 2009)

Helbo said:


> I only use Drontal, but if I were going to use more drugs (tablet or spot-on treatments) on my dog I'd go talk to my vet.





Helbo said:


> Advantix only covers things like fleas, ticks and flies...
> 
> Advocate also covers some parasites
> 
> I know I keep repeating this, but If you're going to use either of these I'd ask your vet for advice first


You need a prescription for every spot on to my knowledge bar Frontline/Bob Martin (I think they do a spot on) so you would have to speak to your vet else you can't buy them


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

Helbo said:


> Bayer' (the makers of advocate) own website states advocate treats lungworm, it does not prevent it
> 
> Please don't get lulled into a false sense of security. Even treating with advocate you need to be on the lookout for lungworm symptoms between tablets.
> 
> Bayer Animal Health: Welcome to Advocate®/Advantage multi®


I thought that advocate prevented lungworm, thats why vets advate it so much, as it supposedly prevented lungworm in dogs. I've read the bayner site and it does not state anywhere that it PREVENTS lungworm, only to treat it. Now i'm wondering why I spend £30 every 3 months for advocate, when I could be using drontal and frontline for flea/worm preventation and to also give it to Ollie less often (at the moment, he gets treated every month, when ideally I'd like him to be done every 3-6 months).


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Helbo, no bad feeling at all, and I hope I haven't caused any offence, it's the dogs that are important and I'll be cross posting any information I find out back to the original website, and anywhere else to make people aware.

It doesn't help when you read vet websites which clearly state that lung worm is preventable, however, I've actually found two more very useful websites! Just to explain a bit about Advocate and Panacur (I've done a lot of reading after seeing the thread about the springer spaniel  ), Panacur is an anthelmintic which (apparently) expels unwanted parasites; naturally occuring anthelmintic substances are pineapple, garlic, and tobacco, amongst others; funnily enough, the active ingredient in Advocate is Imidacloprid, a neurotoxin belonging to a group of chemicals called neonicitinoids. It's actually used as an insecticide, although it has since been found to be highly toxic to bees, and I believe it has been withdrawn from use in some areas.

http://www.bsava.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=6SDjp83ubPg=&tabid=167

http://www.esccap.org/index.php/fus.../esccap-endo-guideline-v2-final-30sep2010.pdf


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2011)

SEVEN_PETS said:


> I thought that advocate prevented lungworm, thats why vets advate it so much, as it supposedly prevented lungworm in dogs. I've read the bayner site and it does not state anywhere that it PREVENTS lungworm, only to treat it. Now i'm wondering why I spend £30 every 3 months for advocate, when I could be using drontal and frontline for flea/worm preventation and to also give it to Ollie less often (at the moment, he gets treated every month, when ideally I'd like him to be done every 3-6 months).


Because it would keep lung worms at an acceptable level if used regularly.
When most vets prescribed Panacur as the most common wormer, this didn't seem to be a problem.
I know the climate has changed somewhat but it does make you wonder


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## EricaJ (Jul 27, 2011)

Looks like both my dogs may have lungworm. We got back from holiday on Saturday and they both seemed absolutely normal and fine - but had lost a little bit of weight which is not unusual as we had been away for 3 weeks. They were both fine while in the kennels - and my little dog, who has oesophagus problems and Pancreatitis, had only been sick once (which is rare). They both had high temperatures on Sunday morning so took straight to vets and he gave 2 jabs and put on anti-biotic course. However, next day one of them started to cough (but not like kennel cough) and struggle to breathe. Took her back to the vets yesterday and they x-rayed and said lungs look 'not right' - we are doing the 3 day poo-sample test for Lungworm, but not allowed to give Advocate until the 3 days have passed - the vets thinking was that if this showed negative, she would have to go to veterinary hospital for an endoscopy and further tests. We are worried as we think this is definitely Lungworm and want to give her the Advocate RIGHT NOW! The other dog (Chihuahua) has now deteriorated more and tonight is being sick every 30 seconds - we have put Advocate on her as precaution anyway yesterday but are desperately waiting for it to work now. I have never seen either dog go near a slug or a snail but we do have lots of snails about outside our house. We have been advised by vet to use Advocate every month religiously - I'm presuming this will treat any Lungworm if they are there, but if not, won't do any harm anyway. Everyone be aware - give Advocate as a precaution as this is a real dangerous problem and we are so worried!


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## Sqp guy (Sep 20, 2010)

Would just like to say it is very difficult to protect against everything in one go. Use advocate and miss out treating ticks and tapeworm (which is much more widespread than lungworm). Use something like frontline and drontal and miss lungworm. Also as far as I'm aware you cannot actually prevent worms as treatment for worms leaves your dog system after 48hrs or so. Bayer will claim it will prevent worms if used monthly as most worms take 3-4 weeks to become an adult that can produce eggs so significantly reducing numbers of worms but alas not actually stop worm eggs etc living in your pet until the next treatment. Also panacur is not an all round wormer. Only works on roundworm and tania (a tapeworm) and if used for several days a perticular lungworm but not to my knowledge all 4 u need to worry about. For me frontline and plerion is my dogs normal routine and if I notice him getting out of breath easy or coughing he will be straight to the vet but until then for my particular situation I would rather be treating him for tapeworm and ticks which are much more widespread than lungworm when contact with anything snail or slug related is kept to a minimum:smile5:


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## anita a (Jun 17, 2011)

we are using advocate and panacur, i'm hoping i've covered every angle here.


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## EricaJ (Jul 27, 2011)

Same here - Advocate and Panacur! Remember - Lungworm IS a killer and can't be seen - by the time the symptoms show and have been looked into, it could already be too late! Other worms, although not good, are not as dangerous immediately and can be treated on symptoms (although still obviously best to keep at bay in the first place).


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## Sqp guy (Sep 20, 2010)

anita a said:


> we are using advocate and panacur, i'm hoping i've covered every angle here.


Not really unfortunately as advocate treats roundworm and panacur does the same you will be missing many very common tapeworms. Try drontal or plerion if your dog isn't a fan of tablets


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## anita a (Jun 17, 2011)

thanks sqp guy - will look into drontal


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