# Pregnant feral AKA Millie, couple of questions



## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Hi all.

This is 'Millie', our resident feral cat. She is quite clearly pregnant and now seems to be getting bigger by the day. From the very little I know, presumably the kittens are 'dropping' and that's the size difference we're seeing since yesterday. 

So I'm wondering when people think she might be due (picture attached) and what we can do to help her. Obviously she is perfectly capable of looking after herself, but we've all grown quite fond of her. 

We feed her every day and will be getting some kitten food for her and the babies. In terms of shelter, she essentially lives in our garage and that is where she had her kittens last year - the only thing is the garage is absolutely filled with stuff, so we won't be able to see how she is/the kittens are doing... unless we put a box in there with some blankets in an accessible area and she chooses to use that. Is that a good idea?

(Yes I've tried to organise spaying her in the past, was told by charities I'd get very little help because of COVID and they wouldn't even keep her for a while to check for infection afterwards)


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

A box with some clean bedding is a good idea but she will want to be tucked away to feel safe.

Maybe have a couple in the garage so she can move the kittens to a clean area if she chooses?

Could you not get her spayed (and her kittens) and keep her confined for a few days or overnight to recover from the GA?

My sister did this with the ferals near her. She lives abroad but the vets use dissolving stitches so the cats don’t have to be caught again (fat chance! ) for removal.


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

A box with plenty of soft straw would be best. Blankeys are not a good idea in a garage atm because of the cold night temperatures because the blankets will end up too wet and could freeze and the kittens will get a chill and die so straw from a pet shop is best you can put a good thick layer in it. Becaise uts hollow it will stay warmer. Dont use hay because again it will end up soggy and cold


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Okay, thank you both!


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## Doreenthecat (Apr 18, 2021)

He


Lucy2020 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> This is 'Millie', our resident feral cat. She is quite clearly pregnant and now seems to be getting bigger by the day. From the very little I know, presumably the kittens are 'dropping' and that's the size difference we're seeing since yesterday.
> 
> ...


hey! Any signs of the kittens yet? Super exciting !


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Lucy2020 said:


> and that is where she had her kittens last year


What happened to them? What will happen to these? Please, please, get her and the kitten spayed after this.


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## Doreenthecat (Apr 18, 2021)

lorilu said:


> What happened to them? What will happen to these? Please, please, get her and the kitten spayed after this.


The cat is a feral cat and she said in her post she tried getting her spayed but due to covid charities wouldn't help her and it's not her cat so I can understand why she can't afford to spend a lot of money getting them all spayed


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Doreenthecat said:


> The cat is a feral cat and she said in her post she tried getting her spayed but due to covid charities wouldn't help her and it's not her cat so I can understand why she can't afford to spend a lot of money getting them all spayed


If you feed and shelter a cat, the cat and any off spring become your responsibility.


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## Doreenthecat (Apr 18, 2021)

lorilu said:


> If you feed and shelter a cat, the cat and any off spring become your responsibility.


Oh apologies I wasn't aware I think the whole community do it going from what she wrote in her post. Hopefully now covid is easing the charities will be able to help


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Doreenthecat said:


> Oh apologies I wasn't aware I think the whole community do it going from what she wrote in her post. Hopefully now covid is easing the charities will be able to help


If you want charities to be able to help then some donating would help them to help.


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## Doreenthecat (Apr 18, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> If you want charities to be able to help then some donating would help them to help.


Yeah I'm sure most of them will help you with a small donation towards charity if you can afford it


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Doreenthecat said:


> Yeah I'm sure most of them will help you with a small donation towards charity if you can afford it


I was suggesting you make a donation to your local rescue. I do donate to mine.


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## Doreenthecat (Apr 18, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> I was suggesting you make a donation to your local rescue. I do donate to mine.


Before covid I done a lot of events to raise money for multiple charities, from pets to cancer patients to care homes  due to covid I haven't been able to hold any events although I have done a couple of virtual dancathons (you dance non stop for a few hours) and people donate along with other bits and peace's I also used to volunteer at a cat and dog home on my days off however due to me having to move house I could no longer do it as I was too far away. I'm very involved in charities and have raise quite a lot of money


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

What a beautiful cat . . . she looks to be in such good condition for a pregnant stray, so clean - (suspect she is fed by many!).


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Lucy2020 said:


> will be getting some kitten food for her and the babies


I'd get her on to kitten food as soon as you can - she looks fairly near her time. I took in a pregnant female and could not believe how much she put away; she produced seven (!!) in an assortment of colours.


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## Doreenthecat (Apr 18, 2021)

Calvine said:


> I'd get her on to kitten food as soon as you can - she looks fairly near her time. I took in a pregnant female and could not believe how much she put away; she produced seven (!!) in an assortment of colours.


Wow 7! That's amazing ! Was she an older cat? X


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Doreenthecat said:


> Wow 7! That's amazing ! Was she an older cat? X


No, she was not much more than a kitten herself. A friend of mine from Australia came over and was staying in a place in SE London and the cat moved into her back yard and stayed. She was not really a cat person but enjoyed the company and called the cat ''Oliver'' as ''he'' was always asking for more . . . then sent me a photo of a pretty tortie, so pretty much 90% guaranteed to be female. I told her to contact Cats' Protection who were no help, she said she was going back to Oz in a week and didn't want to leave her behind as she had no idea who would be moving in, but they just said leave her where she is. Then she sent me another photo and she was clearly VERY heavily pregnant so I went and got her. Changed the name to Florence and had her for ten years when I found a little lump . . . mammary tumour . . . and also tested FIV+. I had had her spayed after the kittens, but because she had presumably mated with a FIV+ tom (she never wanted to go out while I had her) and had a litter before I got her, she got these health problems. Mammary tumours are more common in unspayed females. I lost her last year which was sad; her life was cut short. She was a dear little thing and an excellent mum.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

And here is Flo ready to pop!


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## Doreenthecat (Apr 18, 2021)

Calvine said:


> No, she was not much more than a kitten herself. A friend of mine from Australia came over and was staying in a place in SE London and the cat moved into her back yard and stayed. She was not really a cat person but enjoyed the company and called the cat ''Oliver'' as ''he'' was always asking for more . . . then sent me a photo of a pretty tortie, so pretty much 90% guaranteed to be female. I told her to contact Cats' Protection who were no help, she said she was going back to Oz in a week and didn't want to leave her behind as she had no idea who would be moving in, but they just said leave her where she is. Then she sent me another photo and she was clearly VERY heavily pregnant so I went and got her. Changed the name to Florence and had her for ten years when I found a little lump . . . mammary tumour . . . and also tested FIV+. I had had her spayed after the kittens, but because she had presumably mated with a FIV+ tom (she never wanted to go out while I had her) and had a litter before I got her, she got these health problems. Mammary tumours are more common in unspayed females. I lost her last year which was sad; her life was cut short. She was a dear little thing and an excellent mum.


I'm so sorry you lost her  but you gave her the best 10 years! And saved her she me not have even lived that long if you never took her in and her live will still live on in your memories you made together  I love the photos too! I'm looking forward to my girls babies coming and growing our wee family xx


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## Doreenthecat (Apr 18, 2021)

Calvine said:


> And here is Flo ready to pop!


What a beautiful cat!!!


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Doreenthecat said:


> What a beautiful cat!!!


There were two torties too and another black. The most beautiful was the tabby boy on his back, so handsome; people were queueing to adopt him when they saw him on the local rescue website. The little tabby girl was the smart and adventurous one (we called her Dora the Explorer).


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

lorilu said:


> What happened to them? What will happen to these? Please, please, get her and the kitten spayed after this.


We have them (Triss & Ardath). And my reasons for not having gotten her spayed are outlined in the first post. To be more clear, however:
. Nobody would help us to catch her in the first place - it's the practical side they wouldn't help with. But quite frankly, after last year meeting all these stray and feral cats that turned out to live in our garage, nobody gives a d**n about unowned cats. It's very unfair and sad in my opinion. I tried to take in a stray early last year, before Millie's pregnancy, and nobody would even check him for a microchip! Let alone give him a checkup and flea/worming treatment.
. My mother-in-law, who is primarily the one feeding her (and any other cats that come by, bless her) does not want to inadvertently cause Millie's death by getting her spayed and then letting her go with a wound that may become infected and kill her.

I had planned to get Millie more comfortable with us and the dog and for her to become a family pet, but that has been very slow-going. Someone did suggest shutting her in somewhere while she recovers, but I'm not sure where we could do this unfortunately. Trust me though, we _know _she'd ideally not be having kittens constantly (well, once a year, it looks like).



Calvine said:


> What a beautiful cat . . . she looks to be in such good condition for a pregnant stray, so clean - (suspect she is fed by many!).


She is beautiful. I think she may sometimes eat food others give her, but it's mostly us. She has actually meowed at the door for food which is pretty amazing considering how we started - she would hiss across the other side of the garden. When we first met her she was in this aggressive posture pretty much every time we were outside. 899



lorilu said:


> If you feed and shelter a cat, the cat and any off spring become your responsibility.


She chooses to use our abandoned garage - sure, we don't kick her out, but why would we?

Update: I don't think she has had the kittens yet, which is good as we haven't found any suitably sized boxes... We thought she looked a bit thinner today, but she's been spending plenty of time in the garden and I'm sure she wouldn't leave them for so long. Her belly is still hanging down too.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Calvine said:


> No, she was not much more than a kitten herself. A friend of mine from Australia came over and was staying in a place in SE London and the cat moved into her back yard and stayed. She was not really a cat person but enjoyed the company and called the cat ''Oliver'' as ''he'' was always asking for more . . . then sent me a photo of a pretty tortie, so pretty much 90% guaranteed to be female. I told her to contact Cats' Protection who were no help, she said she was going back to Oz in a week and didn't want to leave her behind as she had no idea who would be moving in, but they just said leave her where she is. Then she sent me another photo and she was clearly VERY heavily pregnant so I went and got her. Changed the name to Florence and had her for ten years when I found a little lump . . . mammary tumour . . . and also tested FIV+. I had had her spayed after the kittens, but because she had presumably mated with a FIV+ tom (she never wanted to go out while I had her) and had a litter before I got her, she got these health problems. Mammary tumours are more common in unspayed females. I lost her last year which was sad; her life was cut short. She was a dear little thing and an excellent mum.


I'm so sorry for your loss. It's wonderful that you took her in and I'm sure she had a very happy life with you x


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

Doreenthecat said:


> The cat is a feral cat and she said in her post she tried getting her spayed but due to covid charities wouldn't help her and it's not her cat so I can understand why she can't afford to spend a lot of money getting them all spayed


Feeding a pregnant cat, feeding a lactating cat and feeding a bunch of kittens is hugely more expensive than a cat spay.


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## Rachey (May 15, 2020)

I wish Millie all the best for delivery! I believe your cats are same age as ours from your posts on here and how well you've done with socialising them at the start. 

I hope the charities are more willing to help this time. Just a thought and depends entirely on your community but our local area has a Facebook group and a few people have come forward to help with a cat trap when strays/lost cats turn up. Might be someone local can help at least get millie to a vet. Also, from what I hear independent charities more helpful than the larger ones. Is the garage not secure to keep her in there a while whilst she recovers?

Any plans what to do with the kittens? Cant wait to see photos! Good luck


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Rachey said:


> I wish Millie all the best for delivery! I believe your cats are same age as ours from your posts on here and how well you've done with socialising them at the start.
> 
> I hope the charities are more willing to help this time. Just a thought and depends entirely on your community but our local area has a Facebook group and a few people have come forward to help with a cat trap when strays/lost cats turn up. Might be someone local can help at least get millie to a vet. Also, from what I hear independent charities more helpful than the larger ones. Is the garage not secure to keep her in there a while whilst she recovers?
> 
> Any plans what to do with the kittens? Cant wait to see photos! Good luck


Thank you for the tip about Facebook groups, that would really help. I will mention it to the MIL as I have actually deleted my own Facebook account (too stress inducing... lol).

Unfortunately, the garage has plenty of holes so it couldn't contain her.

Regarding the kittens... I really don't know.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Update: Millie doesn't seem to have given birth yet. Up until today, she's been spending plenty of time lounging about in the garden/on the wall. She's a bit slow and waddling about but she seems okay otherwise. Plenty of appetite. Today though, I haven't seen her at all. She was seen this morning, I think. That could be a sign she's given birth, although some days we just don't see her anyway. If she hasn't yet, should we be worried?


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

You have no idea when she's going to be due so no don't worry if she hasn't yet. 
Some of our girls have looked huge at 6 weeks and if we didn't know exact due dates as we do you would think any day now and then gone on to have 3 kittens then we have had girls have 6 and not been very big at all, so even if you girl looks big it doesn't necessarily mean she is due anytime soon.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Okay, thank you


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Update: We're not 100% sure but we think Millie has had her kittens. I was happy to see that she herself looks healthy - it will be a while before we can get into the garage to have a look at the kittens (even from a distance).


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## Blacky90 (Feb 12, 2021)

What is your plan for everything?
There is also to consider that in 10-12 months you could be in the same situation but with mother-son and full brother-full sister matings.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Update: Okay, Millie hasn't actually had her kittens after all. She was spotted yesterday morning and the kittens were visibly moving in her belly. Wonder if she miscarried one and that's why she looks thinner...


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Blacky90 said:


> What is your plan for everything?
> There is also to consider that in 10-12 months you could be in the same situation but with mother-son and full brother-full sister matings.


I don't know. Call a small local rescue (that will hopefully care more) when the kittens are older and see if they can help with getting Millie and them spayed/neutered and kept somewhere until they heal from the surgery, then put them back where they were, I guess.


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## AlleyCatRescuer (Apr 13, 2021)

Lucy2020 said:


> I don't know. Call a small local rescue (that will hopefully care more) when the kittens are older and see if they can help with getting Millie and them spayed/neutered and kept somewhere until they heal from the surgery, then put them back where they were, I guess.


I would recommend contacting a shelter now as because you know where the kittens are they can use them to lure mum into the trap and it is far safer for the kittens to be in an enviroment where they can be watched as lots of things can go wrong. This will also give the kittens a chance to be socilized and adopted out.
Also female cats can get pregnant again very soon after kittens are born and some kittens can become sexually mature as early as 4 months so all round the sooner they can be brought inside the better for the little family.
Any shelter in your area should be willing to help out.

Edit: as I have just read your not sure if she has had her kittens. I still highly recommend trying to trap her and get her inside now so the whole family can be safe and warm and if medical care is required they can get it. Cats protection should be able to advice if you struggle to find a local rescue to help you.
The thinner look could be because her stomach has dropped which means she could be having her kittens very soon.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

We think she has now had the kittens, on the 28th. She was seen looking _much_ thinner and ate her dinner very quickly then went straight back to the garage, and I didn't see her all day yesterday (as in the 29th). Put food in the gap in the garage doorway and she didn't eat it, though I did spot a different cat (she gets visitors) in there eating it *sigh*

Cats protection was, I'm sorry to say, not very helpful when I called them in the past. I will find a local one. I see what you mean about trapping them all while the kittens are young - it depends whether she has used the box we put in the garage for her, or if she's had them where she had her litter last year. If it's the latter, they will be literally impossible to get to without injury because of how ram-packed the garage is.


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## AlleyCatRescuer (Apr 13, 2021)

Sorry to hear cats protection weren't useful to you before, as a big orginisation it does sometimes feel like they have lost touch. Also Covid has really messed up a lot of thing including trap neuter release efforts from most shelters and vets refusing to neuter unless in an emergency, but given that restrictions are lifting it should be easier now, but definitely local shelters should help in this case but if they don't there are ways of doing it yourself, should you wish too if you are let down again.
If you have a room you can have as a nursery for her I'm sure shelters would be more then happy to help you get her inside and offer any assistance you need. it's currently kitten season so a foster for the family should be extremely welcome. 

You should be able to go in and check on where abouts the kittens are (if they are in the box you put out for her). mother cats won't abandon their litter just because the enviroment get disturbed though they may not return if someone is there so a quick check should do no harm.
If they are in the place that is impossible to get too then in about 5-6 weeks you should be able to see the kittens start coming out and can start trapping them all then. The socalizition period for cats is from 5-12 weeks old so even kittens that are born on the streets and have had no human contact can be socalized and live very happily as pets.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

I'll reply properly later, but in regards to checking where she has had them, will opening the garage door a bit in order to get in there (a cat can get in, but not enough space for a person) upset her? It's quite screechy, if I'm remembering correctly.


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## AlleyCatRescuer (Apr 13, 2021)

Lucy2020 said:


> I'll reply properly later, but in regards to checking where she has had them, will opening the garage door a bit in order to get in there (a cat can get in, but not enough space for a person) upset her? It's quite screechy, if I'm remembering correctly.


It might disturb her a bit but will not cause any danger to the kittens. Cats very rarely reject their kittens for anything other than congenital issues with the kitten so there's no reason the door opening should cause any issue, even with it being noisy.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

I had a look in the garage and she hasn't used the box, so I guess it's the same place as last year. I think a few cats - in particular, the probable father we call Rupert - are actually helping her, like keeping an eye on the kittens when she briefly comes out for food. From the comings and goings we've been seeing.



AlleyCatRescuer said:


> The socalizition period for cats is from 5-12 weeks old so even kittens that are born on the streets and have had no human contact can be socalized and live very happily as pets.


Happily, I know this from first-hand experience with her previous litter. We trapped two of the three kittens (the third, we thought had sadly been caught by the local foxes, but actually, we've spotted a cat coming to our garden the right size and colouration, so we now think it either left early for some reason or was trapped by someone else.) and tamed them, they're now very loving, cuddly cats.


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## AlleyCatRescuer (Apr 13, 2021)

Glad to hear the previous litter have done okay.
Unfortunately if the unneutered toms are hanging around it's more likely they are interested in her then the kittens and she could well be pregnant again already. Male cats don't help the mum care for kittens, especially as young as these will be, whilst they may not be a danger to the kittens they will not interact with them (pet cats may well behave differently to street cats in that regard). 
I would very much recommend trying to get a rescue to trap all the stray cats around yours now so they can neuter and release most to help stop more kittens being born.
If the mum gets trapped you can release her so she can return to her kittens as they will very much need her still.


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

Just a small update at the moment. Millie seems well. She's eating a _lot - _6-8 pouches of kitten food a day, whereas before she was eating 4 pouches of adult cat food or sometimes didn't come for food at all. We can only assume she isn't doing any hunting herself. We're not sure if that's concerning as she may not teach the kittens to hunt, only to come to our door for food... which wouldn't be great... 
Most of the time she's running over when we put the food out, eating it then running back to the garage, although we did have an incident the other day where she seemed very content to just hang around in the sun. We were a bit worried that might mean the kittens had died so she wasn't bothering to go back quickly... I don't think it's happened again though. She was out there for maybe 45 minutes total?


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## AlleyCatRescuer (Apr 13, 2021)

Hi, cats eat a lot more when they are nursing then when pregnant so it's not surprising she will want alot of food.
The kittens will be about a month old by now (3 weekish when you commented) and its not uncommon for the mum to start leaving them for short amounts of time to have a bit of a break. A 3 week kitten needs to eat ever 3-4 hours so as long as she's not stay at yours for most of the day everything should all be fine still, though there is obviously no guarantee they have all made it saddly.
At 3 weeks the kittens are just about learning to walk and by now will be more confident at it and mum wouldn't be teaching them to hunt yet in the wild as not all of their teeth are in (just the front ones the incisors and canines which are for grooming not chewing) however even if the kittens learn to come to you for food that makes in nice and easy for a shelter to come trap neuter and rehome them so not a total disaster.
Have you had any luck getting a rescue to respond?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I see you are in the West Midlands. Suggest you contact The ARC who if they can't help should be able to advise who can:

ARC - The Ashmore Rescue for Cats (catchat.org)
(3) The ARC - the ashmore rescue for cats | Facebook


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## 1507601 (Jun 26, 2020)

AlleyCatRescuer said:


> Hi, cats eat a lot more when they are nursing then when pregnant so it's not surprising she will want alot of food.
> The kittens will be about a month old by now (3 weekish when you commented) and its not uncommon for the mum to start leaving them for short amounts of time to have a bit of a break. A 3 week kitten needs to eat ever 3-4 hours so as long as she's not stay at yours for most of the day everything should all be fine still, though there is obviously no guarantee they have all made it saddly.
> At 3 weeks the kittens are just about learning to walk and by now will be more confident at it and mum wouldn't be teaching them to hunt yet in the wild as not all of their teeth are in (just the front ones the incisors and canines which are for grooming not chewing) however even if the kittens learn to come to you for food that makes in nice and easy for a shelter to come trap neuter and rehome them so not a total disaster.
> Have you had any luck getting a rescue to respond?


Thank you for the information! We really weren't sure if we should be shooing her back to the garage or something, but seems it should be fine. We've heard at least one kitten in there now. 
No, we haven't contacted a shelter yet as we thought it'd be best to wait until they've started coming outside - they won't be able to be trapped until then anyway, and we have no idea if they'll survive/how many there are yet.



OrientalSlave said:


> I see you are in the West Midlands. Suggest you contact The ARC who if they can't help should be able to advise who can:
> 
> ARC - The Ashmore Rescue for Cats (catchat.org)
> (3) The ARC - the ashmore rescue for cats | Facebook


Thank you!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Don't wait to contact a rescue, it might be only 2-3 weeks until you see the kittens and it might be helpful if they get some advance warning


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## AlleyCatRescuer (Apr 13, 2021)

OrientalSlave is right, contacting them ahead of time gives them a chances to get fosters in place and if need be work with other rescues so they can all be on standby for when the kittens start to explore outside of the nest, and have all the equipment is ready to go.


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## Arny (Jul 29, 2017)

Please don't wait, you have the chance of giving these cats a nicer life.
Rescue's often need time to organise getting traps back from previous people.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

AlleyCatRescuer said:


> OrientalSlave is right, contacting them ahead of time gives them a chances to get fosters in place and if need be work with other rescues so they can all be on standby for when the kittens start to explore outside of the nest, and have all the equipment is ready to go.


And the people ready to go, plus they might want to give some advice about the next 2-3 weeks. Hopefully they will trap & spay the mother as well - or you will help them trap her!

When we trapped a tom in my back garden the rescue whose trap it was had me feed him each night. One night the food was in the trap and bingo! He turned out to be a very sweet natured chap, but once relieved of his testicles he was set free near my house.


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