# Rat newbie



## Lou mo (Apr 24, 2017)

Looking for any and all advice from where to buy/adopt, make or female, best articles/books to read, best cages....want to do this right and have happy happy loved rats but I'm a rat newbie :-/


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

always get two or more rats. try finding a good breeder in your area, you may have to travel, and put your name down. i prefer boys as they are more laid back, but others prefer girls. a great cage for 2 or 3 rats is a furet plus. it can be available from pets at home. fill it with hammocks and toys. your best bet is to join rat groups, but avoid the rat fan club.


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

This is a good & informative group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RatCareUK/


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

CRL said:


> *always get two or more rats*. try finding a good breeder in your area, you may have to travel, and put your name down. i prefer boys as they are more laid back, but others prefer girls. a great cage for 2 or 3 rats is a furet plus. it can be available from pets at home. fill it with hammocks and toys. your best bet is to join rat groups, but avoid the rat fan club.


*of the same sex 
*
I had mine in a liberta explorer and happily had seven boys in there, loved it as big doors for cleaning and no long drops , put loads of hammocks and hidey holes, doesnt have to be expensive, cheap fleeces from the £ shop can be used and tied around bars, lots of ropes and maybe pay out for a good rat cargo net, pringles tubes [empty] when young are great hidey holes, and can help to get them out to handle if you or they are nervous, ask at carpet shops for empty carpet roll inners for when theyre bigger
look up the shumanite diet, nuggets give them everything but its like us eating ryvita every day, blooming boring

Please dont get from pet shops, they are all brought in from the rat equivalent of puppy mills, and they are just as horrible places, in fact worse cos rats are just a throw away commodity to the mills, as its the extras that bring the shops the profits, not the rats themselves. Also the staff in shops arent that great at gender identity, even though the boys have torpedoes like youve never seen from a few weeks old, Ive raised more than one litter through frantic phonecalls saying 'they told me they were both boys'

Lastly, for now, dont get rats from anyone/where that charges more for dumbo rats than the normal looking ones ( top eared) or tells you that top eared and dumbos cannot be housed together, the only difference is the position of their ears, nothing else

enjoy, I miss my rats immensely

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/?iid=29180...0&device=c&campaignid=805661516&crdt=0&chn=ps


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

mrs phas said:


> *of the same sex
> *
> I had mine in a liberta explorer and happily had seven boys in there, loved it as big doors for cleaning and no long drops , put loads of hammocks and hidey holes, doesnt have to be expensive, cheap fleeces from the £ shop can be used and tied around bars, lots of ropes and maybe pay out for a good rat cargo net, pringles tubes [empty] when young are great hidey holes, and can help to get them out to handle if you or they are nervous, ask at carpet shops for empty carpet roll inners for when theyre bigger
> look up the shumanite diet, nuggets give them everything but its like us eating ryvita every day, blooming boring
> ...


Gosh, I'd forgotten what the hammocks that came with the Explorer looked like!

I think ours lasted approximately 2 weeks, although I took the clips off & am still reusing them when making DIY hammocks!


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## DarkUnicorn (Feb 20, 2017)

Great cages for rats are critter nations, and they need to be kept in groups, at least pairs. They are more high maintenance than some other rodents, as they're very social and intelligent. They will need to be let out to play every day, and if you don't they get very distressed and start fighting more with each other. Their cages also get stinky pretty fast, so cleaning each week is a must. My rats are from a pet store, though one with good breeders, but if you can try to find an adoption website for your area, or use Petfinder. Good luck with your rats, they are wonderful companions.


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## TheWitcher (Aug 5, 2017)

I'm so glad you've decided to get rats, I own 30 rats in total.

Rats should always be kept in groups of 2 or more, wether it's 2 males, 2 females. Or a castrated male witha female.

It doesn't really matter what gender you get both are loving animals, however I've found girls are cleaner and need cleaning out less depending on the size of the cage and the size of the group.

Cages, once again it depends on how many you aim to get, the more rats the bigger the cage.

If you're after 2-4rats, this size of cage is ideal, I've used this particular cage when I first started owning rats, it's sturdy and durable with easy access.








Anything more then that I recommend a taller cage with multi shelves
This is the one I use now, and it houses up to 20 rats just fine!








In terms of buying ALWAYS BUY FROM A BREEDER!
Especially seeing as you are new, buying from a breeder means a higher chance of the rat being handled from birth so it's used to human interaction and will make bonding that much easier.

Pet shops on the other hand use mass breeding farms, so the animal is never handled and I've found is more prone to biting than one from a local breeder.

If you have any more questions feel free to send a message


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

TheWitcher said:


> I'm so glad you've decided to get rats, I own 30 rats in total.
> 
> Rats should always be kept in groups of 2 or more, wether it's 2 males, 2 females. Or a castrated male witha female.
> 
> ...


I would never put 20 days in that cage. I had a furet tower with 12 boys which can fit 18, and it's 5.5 feet tall. That cage should fit 8-10 max.


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## TheWitcher (Aug 5, 2017)

CRL said:


> I would never put 20 days in that cage. I had a furet tower with 12 boys which can fit 18, and it's 5.5 feet tall. That cage should fit 8-10 max.


that's your opinion, the recommended amount of rats is up to 20, due to its height. 
I currently have 20 girls in that cage with 10 boys in the other and surprisingly the girls have more room, even with their stock supply of hammocks and toys in each!

Personally I never got on with furet tower, as I felt it didn't leave much room for them. 
Specially seeing as it's a 5ft 3 cage not 5ft 5 
But hey to each his own :Cat


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

TheWitcher said:


> that's your opinion, the recommended amount of rats is up to 20, due to its height.
> I currently have 20 girls in that cage with 10 boys in the other and surprisingly the girls have more room, even with their stock supply of hammocks and toys in each!
> 
> Personally I never got on with furet tower, as I felt it didn't leave much room for them.
> ...


Oh it may be your opinion but that doesn't mean it's right. I knew someone who kept 60 rats in a cage made for 18. She thought as they 'looked' like they had enough room it was ok.
Putting more rats into a cage than recommended might be ok with you but as someone who cared for the wellbeing of my rats I gave them more room than they needed. (Not to mean that you don't care about your rats)

If I can ask, what's the name of that cage. Because looking at the picture my guess of 8-10 rats looks correct. As it wouldn't give the rats the 1-2 feet square of space they need.

@StormyThai @simplysardonic what do you think?


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

That cage looks like the Savic Zeno 3 knock down empire which is 100,00cm x 50,00cm x 118,00cm I could be wrong but I rarely am being a cage nut haha
Personally I wouldn't put more than 8 in a cage that size (giving them 2.5 cubic feet per rat). I wouldn't house 20 rats in an explorer, mine had 12 max and I felt that was too many at times.


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## TheWitcher (Aug 5, 2017)

@StormyThai @CRL

This is her partner, who's had rats since I was 6 I'm 19 now and tbh our cage is over the average size for a rat, you never put more than 20 in a cage and have 60 in one is just cruel, my partner miss numbered how many we have we have 12 girls in one and 8 in the other of boys, our girls are smaller in size due to their mother being a dwarf rat as she was born with a condition and all of them are her kids, people think they have the right to tell us how to look after our rats when I've had them for over 13 years, they have plenty of space to run around and they love it, so please don't start having a go because someone else's option on something is different, I believe our rats are more than comfy they have space to climb around and everything


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> That cage looks like the Savic Zeno 3 knock down empire which is 100,00cm x 50,00cm x 118,00cm I could be wrong but I rarely am being a cage nut haha
> Personally I wouldn't put more than 8 in a cage that size (giving them 2.5 cubic feet per rat). I wouldn't house 20 rats in an explorer, mine had 12 max and I felt that was too many at times.


I'm with you on that, I wouldn't put 20 in an SRS or Explorer, let alone 20 in a much smaller cage.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

No one is telling you how to look after your rats. I simply answered a question with my own views.


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## TheWitcher (Aug 5, 2017)

@StormyThai

She felt that the other guy was, then mentioned that someone put 60 rats in a cage that really got her when your trying to prove a point and then they say that, I've read through all messages and I agree on some points that most cages are made for 8-10 rats but as our rats are slightly smaller than usual rats it's a little different, but you should never put more than 12 maximum in a cage anyway


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## TheWitcher (Aug 5, 2017)

simplysardonic said:


> I'm with you on that, I wouldn't put 20 in an SRS or Explorer, let alone 20 in a much smaller cage.


We miscounted ours we have less than what we thought we probably added in the mum who's recently passed away from her dwarf condition


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm not a he. 
Never said she was as bad as the person who put 60 rats on cage meant for 18. That person was a notorious hoarder that had to have 100 rats taken from her. Twice. 
What I was saying is that she thought it was ok to put more rats in a cage than recommended. Didn't mean to cause offense but as someone who owned 33 rats at once I would never overcrowd a cage as it avoided aggression in growing males. Rats need their own space. 

And anyway where are the pictures of your rats? Did you know its illegal (or it should be) to not post pictures of your little monsters. I miss my boys and love looking at other people's rats.


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## TheWitcher (Aug 5, 2017)

CRL said:


> I'm not a he.
> Never said she was as bad as the person who put 60 rats on cage meant for 18. That person was a notorious hoarder that had to have 100 rats taken from her. Twice.
> What I was saying is that she thought it was ok to put more rats in a cage than recommended. Didn't mean to cause offense but as someone who owned 33 rats at once I would never overcrowd a cage as it avoided aggression in growing males. Rats need their own space.
> 
> And anyway where are the pictures of your rats? Did you know its illegal (or it should be) to not post pictures of your little monsters. I miss my boys and love looking at other people's rats.


Hey it's the owner of the account,

It's okay in certain situations, such as the case of our girls being dwarfs or on the smaller scale.
But for regular sized rats I would never overcrowd either, especially with the boys, due to dominance.

I also would like to apologise if I offended you with anything I said, while my intentions are good with what I do and say, sometimes the way they're worded can be misinterpreted by others.

And you're right it should be illegal not to post our furry friends so below I've attached photos of my rats.

Here are the girls:

























And the boys:


























If you're curious as to why the light grey boy (last one in the photos) is on his own it's due to him being wayyy to vicious with the other males, even to the point he left a whopping great hole in another rats stomach. 
For his own safety and for the others he's been separated.

And below is one of the last photos I got of the mother to the babies and her sister (lilly top) 
(Robin - momma - bottom)


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## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

TheWitcher said:


> Hey it's the owner of the account,
> 
> It's okay in certain situations, such as the case of our girls being dwarfs or on the smaller scale.
> But for regular sized rats I would never overcrowd either, especially with the boys, due to dominance.
> ...


No apology needed. I can't read emotions in text very well so may have been a bit sharp. So sorry for upsetting you. 
Your rats are gorgeous.
Don't worry about the lone Not, I had one exactly the same but he was rat,him an and cage aggressive. He tried to kill a 6 week old rat when I introduced them. His old owner had released him into the garden. 
I would post my boys but I had 66 so will take up the thread.


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## TheWitcher (Aug 5, 2017)

CRL said:


> No apology needed. I can't read emotions in text very well so may have been a bit sharp. So sorry for upsetting you.
> Your rats are gorgeous.
> Don't worry about the lone Not, I had one exactly the same but he was rat,him an and cage aggressive. He tried to kill a 6 week old rat when I introduced them. His old owner had released him into the garden.
> I would post my boys but I had 66 so will take up the thread.


Apology accepted, it's just something that happens with me when it comes to animals, as aall animals both pet and wild deserve a good quality of life.

What that horder done was cruel, I remember seeing a clip of a show on YT of a woman who kept hairless rats, from what I remember she kept them in plain cages with a wire bottom, just food and water then cramming the cage full of rats.

My rat obsession *My Strage Addiction *It's called, someone should of reported her.


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## Cara83 (Jan 22, 2020)

Can anybody help, my son was brought fancy rats for his birthday last month from jolleys pet shop 
Everything has been ok up until the last week when there has been a vile smell coming from them/the cage
I’ve said it smells like burnt plastic my mom said it smells like acid, the cage gets cleaned out the smell goes then within a couple of hours the smell comes back, they said to try changing food and pellet bedding we use
another has given us some cranberry powder to use to see if it’s urinary tract
But nobody seems to know what the cause is


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Boy rats I presume?
What kind of cave?


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## Cara83 (Jan 22, 2020)

mrs phas said:


> Boy rats I presume?
> What kind of cave?


Boy rats yes
Cage is a tall one sleep under the ladder on the bottom other usually sleeps in the wheel there's a hammock in there but neither use it along with another sleeping compartment but neither use that


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## Cara83 (Jan 22, 2020)

That’s the cage


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Cara83 said:


> Boy rats yes
> Cage is a tall one sleep under the ladder on the bottom other usually sleeps in the wheel there's a hammock in there but neither use it along with another sleeping compartment but neither use that


well done, rats make perfect first pets for children, big enough to handle, diurnal, want to spend tme with you and forgiving as long as they have a playmate of their own species and sex. I hope your son is really enjoying them
boy rats smell, theres no other way to put it
but they make up for it in the most wonderful cwtches
whereas girls smell less, but are far to busy to give you much of a look in, they are much better for trick training though
boys pee where they sleep and love to marinate in it, they really are like teenage boys really
but, next to cats, they groom themselves more than any other animal, they are quite fastidious really

When rats ( all rats) experience fear their wee can be sprayed in a more concentrated form, which of course stinks even more ( think tom cat v neutered cat) and a moth isnt that long to calm down and of course they are also growing up, baby rats smell less than adult rats
so
yes clean the tray every day, but try not to clean the actual cage too much, cos all youre doing is taking their smell away and theyre going to try and put it back again, ergo its a never ending circle
if theyre not using the tray then try and pop some of their poop in there, everytime you spot it, they should soon get the idea that, that is the area for their midden, although, I have to admit, some rats never get it
make sure everything in there is wipeable, nothing wood ( it soaks up pee) no unglazed pots ( boy did i make that mistake) make sure you wipe whatever the cage is standing on twice a day, if its on the floor make sure its on some plastic, like a plastic tablecloth etc that can be either wiped or thrown ( not very pc these days, but rat pee in the carpet is worse) just do it with a little white vinegar in warm water, that wont harm the rats themselves, if they chew on the bars
have the doors, to the room, closed and air the room every day, fresh air is definitely your friend with male rats, NO plug ins, sprays, scented candles etc, thats a certain route to expenive vet visits, if not death, dont however have the cage in a direct draft, like us they catch cold
id take the wheel out tbh, it takes up far too much of the cage floor and rats, especially boys, arent that fussed with them
IF you suspect a UTI, cranberry powder is not a cure, you need to take them to a vet, even in humans cranberry usage is purely anecdotal andIF it does any good, its in killing the germs that cause it, once its in place its too late.
try feeding them a mixture of things, along with ( im guessing) their nuggets/muesli, chicken drumstick bones, apples, little bits of grape or banana, tiny bit of cheese, cheerios, minibix, toast crusts, theyll love you for it and will quickly calm and tame down, again meaning theyll mark less

enjoy them, theyre not here for nearly long enough, but just long enough to wheedle themselves right into your heart


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