# Please help! Rabbits started fighting after a 3week bond.



## StickeeVicky (Mar 31, 2014)

Hiya,

firstly thanks for reading I could do with the confidence boost more than anything.

I have had my bunny Merlin since he was 6weeks old, he is now 10 months. 
His brother (also now 10 months) who was there when I picked Merlin was picked by my sister who has since due to unforeseen reasons can't look after him anymore so to give Merlin some company I decided to take him on.

I made sure they were both nurtured Merlin in December and Zapp (his brother) a month ago. They are both male.

At first all went very well. Separated them through a gate for a day or two and they were sleeping next to each other by the gates within a day. Then when put in a neutral room there was no fighting and dominance was established by Zapp took a while but they seemed comfortable. We kept them together in there increasing the time they were together until I felt comfortable to leave them knowing there would be no trouble this went on for about a week. 
We then introduced them into the living room where they will be hopping around free when they want only going away at nights. Again increasing times and this went well they have been laying next to each other sleeping, grooming one another, the humping from Zapp stopped completely and we thought everything was great felt comfortable leaving them on their own for periods of time with no trouble.

However after a week of being out and happy with each other (3weeks of bonding) Merlin has for no reason (or so it seems) starting biting Zapp and creating big fights, for example Zapp can just hop past him and Merlin will bite him as he goes past....we have had 5 fights alone this weekend!
We stop them before they start normally but there has been one or two we haven't been able to stop and had to get in the middle of. I have the bites and scratches to prove it!!

When they fight I put them both back into cages to cool off for 30 mins to an hour after checking them both over of course.

I just wondered if anyone knows why he might have suddenly started going for Zapp? Also what I can do to help them get along?

I feel a little disheartened as I have worked so hard to get to this point and all of a sudden it seems I have gone back to worse than it was on the first night and with my increasing work hours they have to spend more times in runs now as I can't give them as much time as I can to watch them.

Thanks again for reading, every little thing will help.

- Vicky

This was them 3days ago...


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

It's always depressing when you bond carefully, all seems well - and this happens.

But you aren't alone.

Male/male bonds can be tricky - but they can work.

Firstly well done for neutering, then giving it time for hormones to die down. And well done for bonding on neutral territory.

You say that Zapp became the dominant bunny, when they were first bonded.

If Merlin is your original bunny, and Zapp is the new one, I am wondering whether Merlin still sees the living room as *his* territory, and is therefore challenging Zapp.

You could try returning them to a *small*, neutral territory for an extended time. But watch carefully, and only leave together if they aren't fighting.

Taking them on a car ride in a carry case first can help them settle down.

If they are full on fighting, it would be sensible to separate completely. Leave it a while (weeks), then begin the whole bonding process again.

Other things to consider-

Spring is sprung, which can, even in neutered/spayed rabbits, excite them and affect their behaviour.

Moulting can make a rabbit grouchy, as could ill health.

Have a read of the Sticky on bonding too. You'll get some good tips.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

when you have been putting them away have you been seperating them? this damages the bond and when you put them back together you efectivly start from scratch, add to that a lot of space and you have problems, when bonding you need to keep them together at all times, also at only a month post neuter one bun will still be full of hormones, it takes 8 weeks for all hormones to die down, depending on how bad the fighting is it may be best to seperate for 4 more weeks (not even allow sight of each other) then start from scratch, or if the fighting isnt that bad, confine them to a small area (bath tub works well) for 24/48 hours with constant supervision, then if all goes well move them to a slightly larger area, then every other day add a little bit to the space they have, if fighting encures go back a step and reduce space


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## StickeeVicky (Mar 31, 2014)

Summersky said:


> It's always depressing when you bond carefully, all seems well - and this happens.
> 
> But you aren't alone.
> 
> ...


Hello. Firstly thank you for your reply.

I did read loads and loads in prep to get them together hense the neutral territory etc.

The living room was Merlin's originally, but he was completely fine with Zapp being there when we increased their space from neutral into living room. Kitchen being neutral and living room being Merlin's old space and we extended the run from the kitchen into the space slowly so they got a little more living room every day or 2. They were out all the time together in the living room! Happily grooming and binkying for about a week and a half before Merlin had a change of heart. This is why I thought it wasn't territory thing. Do you still think it could be?

I have since this morning put them back into the neutral space Merlin has still made to go for Zapp once or twice beven in the netural area but armed with my trusty spray bottle he has given up and they are again currently sleeping next to each other after a grooming session.

Just so disheartening n thank you for understanding this. 
Especially as in the 3weeks i've become very attached to Zapp and loved watching them play together.


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## StickeeVicky (Mar 31, 2014)

Lil Miss said:


> when you have been putting them away have you been seperating them? this damages the bond and when you put them back together you efectivly start from scratch, add to that a lot of space and you have problems, when bonding you need to keep them together at all times, also at only a month post neuter one bun will still be full of hormones, it takes 8 weeks for all hormones to die down, depending on how bad the fighting is it may be best to seperate for 4 more weeks (not even allow sight of each other) then start from scratch, or if the fighting isnt that bad, confine them to a small area (bath tub works well) for 24/48 hours with constant supervision, then if all goes well move them to a slightly larger area, then every other day add a little bit to the space they have, if fighting encures go back a step and reduce space


We have been separating them into a run attached to their hutches with a gate between the two so they can still see and smell each other in the night but didn't trust them together completely first because of Zapps humping and Merlin getting annoyed with it ocasionally and now that has stopped Merlin's aggression at Zapp. 
We also swap sides of the run and hutches every night so they get usednto sleeping with each others smell as well as seeing one another.

Was this a good thing to do? I didn't wanna put them straight together and have one attack the other in the night if one got annoyed for what ever reason.

Of you read above I have now got them both in the neutral. Merlin has gone for him once or twice but because of my trusty water bottlenbhas given up been in here 3hours with just grooming and sleeping so far.

Thank you so much for your reply I really need the advice I don't want to rabbits that dislike each other and will try anything!


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## StickeeVicky (Mar 31, 2014)

This is them now in front of me. Happy chattering and all both sleeping there now.

This also was the case yesterday in the living room!. But as soon as Zapp moved Merlin went for him.


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## Lil Miss (Dec 11, 2010)

yes unfortunatly seperating like that when bonding is noot a good idea, what i tend to do if im unsure if i can trust a bond is take them into my room in carrier, OR set my alarm for every 2 hours and get up and check on them, they need to stay together the whole time.

i would suggest you go back to a small neutral space (bathtub as i said above is good) and keep them together for 24/48 hours, then if all is well and good move them to a more suitable slightly larger area and see how that goes


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## StickeeVicky (Mar 31, 2014)

Lil Miss said:


> yes unfortunatly seperating like that when bonding is noot a good idea, what i tend to do if im unsure if i can trust a bond is take them into my room in carrier, OR set my alarm for every 2 hours and get up and check on them, they need to stay together the whole time.
> 
> i would suggest you go back to a small neutral space (bathtub as i said above is good) and keep them together for 24/48 hours, then if all is well and good move them to a more suitable slightly larger area and see how that goes


OK thank you so much for your advice I can't trust them together in the hutches Merlin very much thinks they are his and gets possessive but they are OK in the kitchen at the moment (see picture above. Sorry you have to click on it to see it). 
Looks like i've got a long night and a uncomfortable bum for the forseeable future as I only have a cat carrier and I imagine that is too small for both of them.


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## Summersky (Aug 11, 2012)

StickeeVicky said:


> OK thank you so much for your advice I can't trust them together in the hutches Merlin very much thinks they are his and gets possessive but they are OK in the kitchen at the moment (see picture above. Sorry you have to click on it to see it).
> Looks like i've got a long night and a uncomfortable bum for the forseeable future as I only have a cat carrier and I imagine that is too small for both of them.


A cat carrier would be too small, but a large dog crate would work.

Hopefully, a small neutral area will do the trick.

A baby monitor would help you keep an ear on them, if you don't fancy a sleeping bag on a floor somewhere (bunny owners often sleep in random places during bonding!)

Keep the environment simple, to avoid excitement.

Aim to keep them together, but be aware that a rabbit's most active times are dusk and dawn, so these can be trigger times.

Putting rabbits together for daily and extending "dates" can work for some, but it is better to just go for it, if you can put some time aside, as each time they are separated and put back, you have to start again to some extent.

If there is excessive humping, do check his boy bits aren't getting sore.

And if they start full on fighting, separate, keep apart, then try again after a good break.

If they do fight, check for wounds, and treat as necessary - you can often feel scabs the day after a fight, that you couldn't feel on the day.

Good luck.


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## StickeeVicky (Mar 31, 2014)

Summersky said:


> A cat carrier would be too small, but a large dog crate would work.
> 
> Hopefully, a small neutral area will do the trick.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. I don't have a dog crate but do I have a sleeping bag lol.

They are sleeping in the kitchen still. No humping since last week not even an attempt so don't think Zapp will do that again. Merlin when he wakes up is still going for Zapp at random moments. Zapp was washing himself sitting next to Merlin 30mins ago n Merlin bit his side.

Here's hoping he gives it up soon!


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## Emma P (Sep 21, 2013)

Hi,

I don't have any advice about bonding, I'm a new comer to bunny bonding (but not a new comer to bunny owning) so I just wanted to let you know you're definitely not alone because I'm in the same boat as you right now. I hoped it would help you to know that   I have just started a bond with my 7 year old boy and a 7 year old rescued female. All was going rather well then all of a sudden fights broke out. So smaller neutral space it is now. I wish you loads of luck with your bond!! I'm sure there are loads of people fretting about bunny bonding right now, it's a very tricky business. Good luck!!    Oh and I've been on this forum for a while now and the advice is always really helpful.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

I wonder if Merlin got fed up with being humped and decided to sort ou things once and for all? I would be really concerned with the biting, it doesn't take much for damage to be done. I would do as the others suggest, put thm in a completely neutral territory, small dog crate, and no litter tray, food bowl or toys. Lots of hay and scatter food. If all is well I would leave them in here for at least a week. Then maybe extend the space by a few square feet for another week etc. Being boys I would increas the space really slowly and over a long period of time. I have two bonded boys and they get on ever so well but sometimes the quickest glimpse of another rabbit will set off a scrap...it doesn't take much. If the fighting continues I would seriously consider splitting them for a few weeks to allow all hormones to settle then trying again right from the beginning. Giving grudges a chance to have died down. Good luck. It's bloomin stressful!!


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## StickeeVicky (Mar 31, 2014)

Lopside said:


> I wonder if Merlin got fed up with being humped and decided to sort ou things once and for all? I would be really concerned with the biting, it doesn't take much for damage to be done. I would do as the others suggest, put thm in a completely neutral territory, small dog crate, and no litter tray, food bowl or toys. Lots of hay and scatter food. If all is well I would leave them in here for at least a week. Then maybe extend the space by a few square feet for another week etc. Being boys I would increas the space really slowly and over a long period of time. I have two bonded boys and they get on ever so well but sometimes the quickest glimpse of another rabbit will set off a scrap...it doesn't take much. If the fighting continues I would seriously consider splitting them for a few weeks to allow all hormones to settle then trying again right from the beginning. Giving grudges a chance to have died down. Good luck. It's bloomin stressful!!


Hiya 

I made sure the humping had stopped before we extended space to the living room, Zapp hadn't even attempted a hump in a fair while before Merlin flipped because i thought it could be this also but i dunno if it was.

I had them in a neutral space this morning but after about 10hours Merlin went for Zapp again so I have separated them for at least two weeks now. I have a gate running across my living room...which is just lovely haha.

It's such a shame because Zapp is looking for Merlin and trying to get out to him. He has now flopped by the opening in a huff! Merlin keeps going up to the other side of the gate sniffing him then going to lay back by his cage.

Thank you for the info on your bonded males tho, gives me a little hope that in 2 or 3weeks when I try again it can be done! Just hope Merlin cools off a bit in the mean time.
You're right it is streassful!!! But thank you again.


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## StickeeVicky (Mar 31, 2014)

Emma P said:


> Hi,
> 
> I don't have any advice about bonding, I'm a new comer to bunny bonding (but not a new comer to bunny owning) so I just wanted to let you know you're definitely not alone because I'm in the same boat as you right now. I hoped it would help you to know that   I have just started a bond with my 7 year old boy and a 7 year old rescued female. All was going rather well then all of a sudden fights broke out. So smaller neutral space it is now. I wish you loads of luck with your bond!! I'm sure there are loads of people fretting about bunny bonding right now, it's a very tricky business. Good luck!!    Oh and I've been on this forum for a while now and the advice is always really helpful.


Hiya 

Thank you so much for this, it is so stressful my partner doesn't quite understand how as it's me that has been spending every minute following one or the other around for the last 2weeks lol.

We went back in the smaller neutral space this morning, after about 10hours of grooming and sleeping no humping etc Merlin went for Zapp again so I have decided to separate them for 2weeks at least so Merlin can cool off. 
Such a shame as as I said above Zapp is desperate for Merlin's company!

Hopefully when I start again in a couple of weeks it will go well again and hopefully stay well!

I hope your bond works and all your hard work and patients pays off! Let me know how it goes and really thanks again for the support it does help to know someone else is fretting about it also, I don't feel so silly then! We all just want them to be happy afteral.


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## Lopside (Mar 20, 2012)

I think you're wise to have split them. If the aggression continued then it may have gotten into a real grudge match. Given them a month or so then try them again. Maybe outside in a pen in the garden? And leave it a long while before you let them back into the lounge, cos they will probably be quite territorial over that 
My two boys used to be three. But two of them fell out big time and now you ought to see the body language if they see each other. They really don't like each other. lol. So boy three has a wife now and the two brothers are very happy in bachelorhood


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## StickeeVicky (Mar 31, 2014)

Lopside said:


> I think you're wise to have split them. If the aggression continued then it may have gotten into a real grudge match. Given them a month or so then try them again. Maybe outside in a pen in the garden? And leave it a long while before you let them back into the lounge, cos they will probably be quite territorial over that
> My two boys used to be three. But two of them fell out big time and now you ought to see the body language if they see each other. They really don't like each other. lol. So boy three has a wife now and the two brothers are very happy in bachelorhood


Yeah I didn't wanna risk it anymore. They can still see each other as Zapp was going crazy looking for Merlin and I felt really mean but they can't get to each other in anyway.

Probably will take them to my partners parents to try again I don't have any more neutral space here anymore really before Zapp Merlin wandered around as he pleased garden, living room, hall and spare room and our bedrooms not big enough for all our stuff and a pen!

Aww bless makes you wonder why they just decide one day to fall out...though so do humans just so happens we can speak to tell people about it I spose! 
Glad yours are all settled now tho 

Thanks for the help and advice!


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## StickeeVicky (Mar 31, 2014)

It's a shame because Merlin was just biting all the bars all crazy, escaped and has flopped next to Zapp! Removed him now tho as I know I can't trust him!


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