# A little time to think about the stud owner



## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

Some people I know have asked me recently why I don't own my own stud.

What some people don't realise is how much goes into owning studs and this is my reason for not doing.....

I haven't been breeding long enough and to have a stud you need lots of experience behind you and also a very large enclosure with separate queen quarters, heating and lighting,

You need a very lot of knowledge to advise the Queens owners who may come to you of what colours they can expect from the mating,

You need to know any faults which may appear so that you can advise on the suitability of a mating between your stud and any proposed visiting queen.

You should also understand the registration policy for your breed and for any breeds that are likely to use your stud, otherwise there may be problems registering the kittens.

To own a stud you need a great deal of time to devote to him otherwise he will lead an extremely lonely life alone in the stud enclosure.

The studs also spray lots and it is very unpleasant and very strong smelling.

A lot of time also needs to be spent in keeping his enclosure clean too.

You also need to show him so he can get a good title, although not necessary but it is better having a titled stud, the owners of Queens would prefer this if possible.

You need to be able to recognise signs of infectious diseases that cats may have. If you do not check visiting queens thoroughly, you may find that your stud will end up with fleas, ear mites, ringworm, conjunctivitis, flu etc, a lot of worry to take on,

Studs should and must only be allowed to be kept for very very experienced owners.

There is so much knowledge and so much dedication which goes into keeping a stud, some just think they can buy a Queen and buy a Stud and hey presto they have kittens,but you need to see the bigger picture, there is so much more that goes into it if it is done correctly.

The 'real' stud owners, I'm sure you will agree deserve a medal for all their hard work and all their dedication and devotion they put in to keeping studs...we've seen some stunners and some of their enclosures...I could live in them myself.


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

> I haven't been breeding long enough and to have a stud you need lots of experience behind you and also a very large enclosure with separate queen quarters, heating and lighting,


You don't need more experience with a stud than with a queen. Large enclosures aren't always necessary. I've had 2 studs and they've lived indoors as any other cat.



> You need a very lot of knowledge to advise the Queens owners who may come to you of what colours they can expect from the mating,


You don't have to let other breeders use him. As for colors, it's just as much the queen owner's responsibility to know the color genetics as it is the stud owner's.



> You need to know any faults which may appear so that you can advise on the suitability of a mating between your stud and any proposed visiting queen.


In my opinion it is every breeders responsibility to check the blood lines they use and have basic knowledge about different blood lines characteristics. How can you make suitable matches otherwise? This is nothing that stud owners has to know more specific about than queen owners. Getting to know different blood lines is a part of being a breeder.



> You should also understand the registration policy for your breed and for any breeds that are likely to use your stud, otherwise there may be problems registering the kittens.


This is as much the queen owners responsibility as the stud owners. When I let other breeders use my stud I make sure I follow the rules of my registry. I leave it to the queen owners to keep track of the rules of their registry. I particularly state in the contract that the queen owner has to follow the rules of their registry. If they have offspring that can't be registered they get to pay a penalty fee to me.



> To own a stud you need a great deal of time to devote to him otherwise he will lead an extremely lonely life alone in the stud enclosure.


If he lives in an enclosure. He may not have to. Most studs in Sweden do not.



> The studs also spray lots and it is very unpleasant and very strong smelling.


As to some queens.



> A lot of time also needs to be spent in keeping his enclosure clean too.


Having a cattery always means you have to keep good hygiene



> You also need to show him so he can get a good title, although not necessary but it is better having a titled stud, the owners of Queens would prefer this if possible.


I don't show studs on purpose. The show adds an additional stress that may cause studs to spray more and become harder to keep and it can also cause aggression. Last but not the least, it adds an extra risk for infection. My experience is that many breeders know very well what characteristics they are looking for, they do not need titles to know if a stud possess them or not.



> You need to be able to recognise signs of infectious diseases that cats may have. If you do not check visiting queens thoroughly, you may find that your stud will end up with fleas, ear mites, ringworm, conjunctivitis, flu etc, a lot of worry to take on,


You need to be able to do this when only having queens as well. Being able to judge the health of your cats is of essence when breeding healthy cats.



> Studs should and must only be allowed to be kept for very very experienced owners.


I do not see why. I rather see 50 breeders with varying degrees of experience keeping one stud each than seeing 15 very, very experienced persons keeping 2 studs each. The first example gives 50 studs in active breeding, the other example only 30. Genetic diversity is of great importance in order to breed healthy cats and the amount of studs is almost often the limiting factor.



> There is so much knowledge and so much dedication which goes into keeping a stud, some just think they can buy a Queen and buy a Stud and hey presto they have kittens,but you need to see the bigger picture, there is so much more that goes into it if it is done correctly.


You need to see the bigger picture no matter if you only have queens, only studs or both.



> The 'real' stud owners, I'm sure you will agree deserve a medal for all their hard work and all their dedication and devotion they put in to keeping studs...we've seen some stunners and some of their enclosures...I could live in them myself


All stud owners that keep happy and healthy studs deserve medals. Most breeds need more studs in active breeding. Only having a few well kept studs active well up to senior age do not add much to the genetic diversity.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

Didn't mean to offend I must say, sorreeeeee.

Just going on the statements of the GCCF rules and thought they were very good statements.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Serridwen, how did you ensure that your indoor boys 1, didn't mate queens when you didn't want them mated and 2, didn't stink the house out with spraying? I'd love to keep a boy indoors, but just don't think it's possible unless you have a larger house and can keep studs and queens separated permanently. I'd love to be told I'm wrong!


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

my stud is kept seperate from my queens but i do know of some breeders who have their stud living indoors with queens. i guess they know the timings of when queens will be in season and not all studs spray, i have a stud who doesnt spray who lives indoors but he doesnt go in with the queens unless i want him to.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

i too keep my boy inside and as of yet he has not sprayed i am lucky i know but he only a year old. He doesn't get free access to the house he has an outside pen by day which is 9x9ft with an enclosed area which is insulated and heated and a small pen by night within the house which we use when we have females in call he lives with a neutered female and is a content boy but saying that I am considering getting him done as i feel uncomfortable with his lifestyle i love him to bits and hate having to banish him to prevent unwanted pregnancies so I am rethinking my choice of having my own stud. I was on the verge of having a second should my latest litter gone genetically to plan.. but it has made me rethink..


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> my stud is kept seperate from my queens but i do know of some breeders who have their stud living indoors with queens.


The breeder of my German girl said most breeders kept their cats together over there, she uses the pill on her girls and takes them off when it's time for them to call and be mated.


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## sharonbee (Aug 3, 2011)

spotty cats said:


> The breeder of my German girl said most breeders kept their cats together over there, she uses the pill on her girls and takes them off when it's time for them to call and be mated.


I have heard of cats being put on the pill, once taken off to mate again do they start to call immediately or can it take a long time to get the pill out of their system? 



Lucy1012 said:


> i too keep my boy inside and as of yet he has not sprayed i am lucky i know


It is very lucky to get a stud who doesn't spray ... that's brilliant, what a good boy you have.

Many years ago when I had outdoor cats I had neutered males and spayed females, my neutered Persian and my female spayed Siamese would come back in and spray, I don't know if it was due to the fact they went out but since having indoor cats none of my cats spray.

At the moment I have 2 boys who are neutered and 2 spayed girls, the other 3 are Breeding Queens, none of them spray.

What do others think?.... do you find the ones whether neutered or not are more likely to spray if they have outside access and then come in to the house.

I just think stud owners do deserve a bit of praise for all the effort they put in and also the ones who allow others to take their Queens to them...I do appreciate it.

I must admit if I had a stud I would want to keep it outdoors in an enclosure as it would be my luck to get one which sprays everywhere lol... And I am a bit of a wuss in cold weather and like the comfort of inside my home rather than cleaning out stud quarters whilst shivering to death. I'm soft I know but well done for those of you who do it.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I think stud owners do deserve a clap - at the moment I couldn't do it. I hope to eventually but not for a few years yet. Thank goodness for those that do keep studs otherwise I would be in a pickle


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## prada (Nov 3, 2007)

catcoonz said:


> my stud is kept seperate from my queens but i do know of some breeders who have their stud living indoors with queens. i guess they know the timings of when queens will be in season and not all studs spray, i have a stud who doesnt spray who lives indoors but he doesnt go in with the queens unless i want him to.


I have two studs. They both come indoors and mix with the queens and have never sprayed. I just have to keep the two boys apart or else they would fight so they take it in turns to go into the outside stud house, usually with one or two neutered girls for company.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

to be honest the hardest part for me is the times i have to banish him to his cattery.. i am just too soft.. i am a sucker for a neutered male BSH they are so chunky and cuddly lol


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

carly87 said:


> Serridwen, how did you ensure that your indoor boys 1, didn't mate queens when you didn't want them mated and 2, didn't stink the house out with spraying? I'd love to keep a boy indoors, but just don't think it's possible unless you have a larger house and can keep studs and queens separated permanently. I'd love to be told I'm wrong!


I simply did not have any queens they shouldn't mate. If I would've had queens they weren't supposed to mate I simply would have divided my home into two. One part where the stud and his girls would live and another where the girls he weren't supposed to mate would have lived.

When it comes to spraying only one of them did. Well, honestly the first stud did spray but only in the bath tub so it wasn't a problem. My second stud was a serious sprayer so he wore stud pants and night time he was placed in our large bath room with everything he needed. My third stud lived in a foster home and he didn't spray at all.

I've always lived in rental apartments and no bigger than 3 rooms and kitchen. I also have a maximum limit on 4 adult cats at home.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Do those of you who keep your studs as house cats take in visiting queens? If so how do you organise queen's quarters/safety porches/separation from your own cats and anywhere they've been etc. etc.


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

havoc said:


> Do those of you who keep your studs as house cats take in visiting queens? If so how do you organise queen's quarters/safety porches/separation from your own cats and anywhere they've been etc. etc.


The studs I have at home are exclusive for my queens as long as they live here. The stud I had in foster home was brought to the queens (meaning home to me for breeding and home to the one breeder I let use him).


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

That does make a bit of a difference then  I have a huge responsibility to keep visiting queens safe in every way. Popping them in a spare room with a stud boy isn't my style.


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

To the right breeder I could accept letting my stud (that lives in my home) go to the other breeders place to mate a queen. I'm not very scared of diseases (however, I wouldn't send my stud off to anyone), the reason why I don't want to bring other queens home is for ethological reasons. I don't want the smell and sound of another cat to disturb the balance in my well functioning cat group.

In Sweden it is common practice to just have the stud and the outside queen in a separate room in the house. We do not see this causing epidemics of infectious diseases.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

my stud is for my own queens use only, i do worry so much about infections so dont have other peoples cat in.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

But if you only had one litter a year from each queen, and only 4 adult cats at home, this is a max of 3 breeding girls. Even then, he surely would only have access to the girls each for a few weeks a year at most when they were ready to mate, then possibly while they were pregnant for 9 weeks. Even if you planned things out, that's a max of 30-33 weeks at best. What do you do with him for the rest of the year?


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

carly87 said:


> But if you only had one litter a year from each queen, and only 4 adult cats at home, this is a max of 3 breeding girls. Even then, he surely would only have access to the girls each for a few weeks a year at most when they were ready to mate, then possibly while they were pregnant for 9 weeks. Even if you planned things out, that's a max of 30-33 weeks at best. What do you do with him for the rest of the year?


It's not a practical problem. I've never had 3 queens at the same time (and do not plan on it either). At the most 2 and the stud would be neutered (or sold to another breeder which so far hasn't happened) when they've had their litters. Studs have a short breeding career at my place. I see no point in repeating the same combination.

Should I ever have more than four cats I would have to live larger and in that case it would be no problem splitting the place into two areas: one with queens not to be mated and one with the stud and company for him. Locked doors work well as birth control.

I know breeders who have managed to have a stud for 10 years without ever putting him in an outside enclosure. Studs that have lived regular pet lives without fathering hundreds of kittens. It's not common though.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

carly87 said:


> But if you only had one litter a year from each queen, and only 4 adult cats at home, this is a max of 3 breeding girls. Even then, he surely would only have access to the girls each for a few weeks a year at most when they were ready to mate, then possibly while they were pregnant for 9 weeks. Even if you planned things out, that's a max of 30-33 weeks at best. What do you do with him for the rest of the year?


he would have a nice long break, not all studs get frustrated.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> I don't want the smell and sound of another cat to disturb the balance in my well functioning cat group.


Absolutely. It's one of the many reasons I keep the boys separate. I suppose if you have a breed which is reasonably numerous it's considered OK to keep a stud boy just for your own use. It's not something I could/would have done with my last two, well not if I were going to make any claims about being in breeding to further the breed.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

sharonbee said:


> I have heard of cats being put on the pill, once taken off to mate again do they start to call immediately or can it take a long time to get the pill out of their system?


I really couldn't tell you as I've never used it, I use acupressure on my girls instead.

I know it's given weekly at a low dose, so would assume it wears off quickly.


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## Cerridwen (Jul 26, 2008)

havoc said:


> Absolutely. It's one of the many reasons I keep the boys separate. I suppose if you have a breed which is reasonably numerous it's considered OK to keep a stud boy just for your own use. It's not something I could/would have done with my last two, well not if I were going to make any claims about being in breeding to further the breed.


It really doesn't matter how large the breed is. It's quite possible to exchange breeding material in all breeds and I know that this is common in the smallest breeds in Sweden such as the Korat (with only appr. 10 cats registered yearly). When one breeder has had one or two litters on her stud he's sold to another breeders, often sold to another country. Or you simply make an exchange of studs. This of course means you have to introduce a new adult cat in your cattery, but it's much easier to introduce a stud to queens in heat than introducing the smell and sound of a foreign queen.

It's actually more important to have many studs used when you have a very small gene pool since the studs usually are the limiting sex. You cannot let a stud in a numerously small breed sire many offspring since this very quickly will create problems in finding unrelated cats in the next generation.

There are appr. 400 Devon Rexes (my breed) registered in Sweden yearly and mane 25% of them will be used for breeding meaning we have a quite limited gene pool. A healthy an sustainable gene pool requires a minimum of 100 individuals in breeding and with optimum sex balance (50-50) which few breeds have. I'd definately say that we have a better sex balance now when breeders more often keep their own studs (that have shorter breeding careers) than back in the days when a few breeders kept a couple of studs that were active for many years. We still suffer from some problems finding cats without those studs in their pedigrees. When I keep my studs for myself (which I don't do entirely) I force other breeders to find other studs and they do. We have probably never had so many imported males as we do know and I believe this partly is because stud owners are more restricted in letting other use their studs.


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