# Is cat pregnant or not?



## Nikkitty (Feb 5, 2021)

Hi, I'm unsure if my cat is pregnant or not.
She was taken to stud 16th January.
She stayed for 2 days and mated. Stud was burmese, she is siamese
Now, unsure if she is pregnant or not.
Out of 8 nipples, only 1 darkened. Anyone experience this? Does this mean she is or isnt pregnant? Almost all are pale except 1 which changed colour. Last time I checked was 2-3 days ago and have pics from it.


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## Nikkitty (Feb 5, 2021)

Her pics didnt get attatched so posting them here - her nipples.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Are you a Tonkinese breeder? Going by previous posts I would guess not? 

Usually the back ones pink first, the nipples don't all always colour up nor do they stay pink after the initial 15-21 day pinking.

At 5 weeks along you should be seeing her belly gently rounding.


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## Nikkitty (Feb 5, 2021)

spotty cats said:


> Are you a Tonkinese breeder? Going by previous posts I would guess not?
> 
> Usually the back ones pink first, the nipples don't all always colour up nor do they stay pink after the initial 15-21 day pinking.
> 
> At 5 weeks along you should be seeing her belly gently rounding.


It's the first time I'm breeding. Father is an Active reg Burmese, fully health tested

Shes health tested, not active registered.

I just wanted a litter of Tonks if any kittens at all in the end - her first and probably only litter. 1-2 will be kept by me, 1 will go to stud owner (our agreement) and I've found 2-3other homes for any potential kittens if there are more than 3-4 in the litter. I know I shouldnt breed her as shes not active, but as you saw by my posts I really wanted another kitty. In london all cat rescues aren't rehoming, or have crazy long waiting lists, and seeing how sickly kittens can be sold for £500+ (which is also seeming to be the going rate for moggies... just check pets4homes and gumtree, whilst other breeders have long waiting lists/didnt reply to me). So I just decided to breed and have some for myself.

Thank you a lot for your answer, I wasnt sure as I've never bred before this. yes seems 1 of the back nipples pinked/reddened up and rest didnt.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm sorry to see you've ignored all good advice and bred her anyway. Fingers crossed she hasn't taken after all.


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## Nikkitty (Feb 5, 2021)

spotty cats said:


> I'm sorry to see you've ignored all good advice and bred her anyway. Fingers crossed she hasn't taken after all.


If she is health tested and fine, and so is the stud who's registered, what is the problem in breeding her? Shes not active reg, but fully clean bill of health and so is the stud. The kittens will all 100% be homed, so I dont really see the problem. :/


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## Nikkitty (Feb 5, 2021)

spotty cats said:


> I'm sorry to see you've ignored all good advice and bred her anyway. Fingers crossed she hasn't taken after all.


I can also give forever homes with myself (keep them back) in case something goes wrong with the litter as I have a 3bed , pretty decent size house. I'm happy to keep up to 4 of them back, but since both parents will have clean bill of health and health tested, highly unlikely they will be born sick


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Your Siamese was registered non active by the breeder, meaning she didn't want the cat bred from which could be a variety of reasons, along with breeding being a serious hobby that takes years of learning and dedication, not one to play around with for 1 litter.

Shame on the stud for accepting a non registered girl, against the rules in many associations.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Nikkitty said:


> I can also give forever homes with myself (keep them back) in case something goes wrong with the litter as I have a 3bed , pretty decent size house. I'm happy to keep up to 4 of them back, but since both parents will have clean bill of health and health tested, highly unlikely they will be born sick


Keep up to 4? And you already have at least 2 other cats? The more cats you have the more likely social problems are and 6 cats is well into that territory.

Do you have at least £3000 you can lay your hands on if she needs an out of hours c section?

The stud owner must be selling unregistered kittens despite the stud being allegedly active registered as it's the only reason for them wanting a kitten back. Maybe they will all be boys...


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Nikkitty said:


> If she is health tested and fine, and so is the stud who's registered, what is the problem in breeding her? Shes not active reg, but fully clean bill of health and so is the stud. The kittens will all 100% be homed, so I dont really see the problem. :/


Firstly I don't know how old your cat is, but every time she has called has slightly increased her risk of breast cancer, and exposed her to the risk of pyometra.

Second, pregnancy, kittening & lactation are not risk free. It's not that common, but cats can get ill as a result of pregnancy. They can have obstructed labour, they can have post-partum infections, they can get mastitis, they can get eclampsia, not all are good mothers (especially 1st time round), kittens can be born with congenital problems, and for all you know their might be a bacteria or virus in your household which is normally under control but affects the kittens.

I had some of those things last year, my vet bills were in the region of £2,500 (that was without an out of hours section) at a mid-price vet.

You blast the dodgy breeders you have found but are in grave danger of joining them, and in returning a kitten to the stud owner (or paying a stud fee) of supporting one. If you found him on P4H there is only one active Burmese stud there who claims to be TICA registered. Maybe he doesn't know the difference between active & inactive GCCF registrations, maybe he doesn't care.

I do hope that at the least you are going to keep any kittens until at least 13 weeks and fully vaccinated. I guess it would be hoping for Unicorns that they are neutered as well.

Finally, the current silly price for moggies is because some people "really wanted another kitty" and aren't prepared to wait. I suspect by autumn things will be well on the way back to normal, and kitten prices and availability will be as well. Indeed there might well be a surge in the numbers of older kittens & younger adults at rescues got by people on furlough who are back at work - or whose finances have collapsed.


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

Those nipples don't give much away do they. If you gently palpate her belly does it feel bloated? At 5 weeks I would expect her to be starting to get rounder


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## Nikkitty (Feb 5, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> Firstly I don't know how old your cat is, but every time she has called has slightly increased her risk of breast cancer, and exposed her to the risk of pyometra.
> 
> Second, pregnancy, kittening & lactation are not risk free. It's not that common, but cats can get ill as a result of pregnancy. They can have obstructed labour, they can have post-partum infections, they can get mastitis, they can get eclampsia, not all are good mothers (especially 1st time round), kittens can be born with congenital problems, and for all you know their might be a bacteria or virus in your household which is normally under control but affects the kittens.
> 
> ...


Hi yes, I'm planning on 2 vet checks which includes fully vaccinating, microchipping and spay/neutering them all before any homes and also de worm de flea. If I have to keep any behind, neutering will be the way to go if they are boys. I also have pet insurance which covers the first pregnancy and the litter in case out of hours emergency vet is needed -- this time the breeder was a close family friend of mine which is why I know the burmese stud has a clean bill of health and why I was able to ask them to mate with my cat. I only used the P4H site to try and get another cat into my small family once and I took this forums advice and left both breeder and that site. I dont get why you assume I'm gonna torture the kittens alive or feed them to lions. I'm also not planning large scale breeding factory operations here. Its 1 litter for me to keep kittens into my family and the rest are 100%assured to have homes. The only difference between your queen and my queen is she doesnt have "active" on her register. In every other health aspect shes great. I will also take care of them and I'm willing to spend a lot on their health.


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## Nikkitty (Feb 5, 2021)

Rlouise said:


> Those nipples don't give much away do they. If you gently palpate her belly does it feel bloated? At 5 weeks I would expect her to be starting to get rounder


Yes it feels quite a bit bloated. At some angles her stomach looks a bit wider. Shes also eating more, but I'm still not sure if she is or isnt pregnant for 100%


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## David C (Sep 6, 2010)

Looking at those nipples, thankfully she isn't pregnant. By now they would be bigger than that and very pink. 
If I were the breeder who had registered her non active I would be feeling really pissed and let down by you for mating her.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Nikkitty said:


> Hi yes, I'm planning on 2 vet checks which includes fully vaccinating, microchipping and spay/neutering them all before any homes and also de worm de flea. If I have to keep any behind, neutering will be the way to go if they are boys. I also have pet insurance which covers the first pregnancy and the litter in case out of hours emergency vet is needed -- this time the breeder was a close family friend of mine which is why I know the burmese stud has a clean bill of health and why I was able to ask them to mate with my cat. I only used the P4H site to try and get another cat into my small family once and I took this forums advice and left both breeder and that site. I dont get why you assume I'm gonna torture the kittens alive or feed them to lions. I'm also not planning large scale breeding factory operations here. Its 1 litter for me to keep kittens into my family and the rest are 100%assured to have homes. The only difference between your queen and my queen is she doesnt have "active" on her register. In every other health aspect shes great. I will also take care of them and I'm willing to spend a lot on their health.


"neutering will be the way to go if they are boys"
If you have to keep girls why would you not neuter them?

"I also have pet insurance which covers the first pregnancy and the litter in case out of hours emergency vet is needed"
If that's Agria it only covers £1,000 which could still leave you with a big bill to cover.

If the Burmese is registered with the GCCF the owner is in contravention of their laws & rules in taking a queen not registered active.

"I dont get why you assume I'm gonna torture the kittens alive or feed them to lions."
You are making wild assumptions.


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## Nikkitty (Feb 5, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> "neutering will be the way to go if they are boys"
> If you have to keep girls why would you not neuter them?
> 
> "I also have pet insurance which covers the first pregnancy and the litter in case out of hours emergency vet is needed"
> ...


If they are all girls I would not spay them as my 2 cats are female, they would be indoors all the time so no risk of breeding or being bred from. It's not Agria its boughtbymany and covers up to 7K. And the "assumptions" were metaphorical. I dont see how I'm doing anything unethical or inhumane by wanting 1 litter for myself, yet you're treating me as though I'd be torturing kittens or cats. You can save all the anger and frustration pent up for the people who actually abuse their cats and pump out factories of kittens in horrible conditions, or actually torture them alive. I'm willing to foot all medical Bill's, keep kittens in case some are born unhealthy, both stud and mother are healthy and health checked, and otherwise all kittens are 100% guaranteed good homes. But anyway, thanks some posters for your actually useful advice. I appreciate it


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Nikkitty said:


> If they are all girls I would not spay them as my 2 cats are female, they would be indoors all the time so no risk of breeding or being bred from.


I don't have anything to say about "breeding cats" as it is not something I know enough about but as you apparently only want helpful advice how about this.................
https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/reasons-to-spay-neuters-your-pets.140588/
Neutering isn't only about the prevention of unwanted kittens .


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

You have intact females? You don't spay your cats. What miserable lives they must lead. Good grief where do these people come from?



David C said:


> Looking at those nipples, thankfully she isn't pregnant. By now they would be bigger than that and very pink.
> If I were the breeder who had registered her non active I would be feeling really pissed and let down by you for mating her.


Too bad the "breeder" of this inactive Siamese didn't ensure the kitten was spayed before being sold on.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Nikkitty said:


> If they are all girls I would not spay them as my 2 cats are female, they would be indoors all the time so no risk of breeding or being bred from. It's not Agria its boughtbymany and covers up to 7K. And the "assumptions" were metaphorical. I dont see how I'm doing anything unethical or inhumane by wanting 1 litter for myself, yet you're treating me as though I'd be torturing kittens or cats. You can save all the anger and frustration pent up for the people who actually abuse their cats and pump out factories of kittens in horrible conditions, or actually torture them alive. I'm willing to foot all medical Bill's, keep kittens in case some are born unhealthy, both stud and mother are healthy and health checked, and otherwise all kittens are 100% guaranteed good homes. But anyway, thanks some posters for your actually useful advice. I appreciate it


I would be another irate breeder if I sold a girl on the non-active register and heard she had been bred from.

However that is not the real point here. Please do not keep your girls entire. Apart from the risk that several entire girls will not be happy together, you have a Siamese girl and early mammary cancer tends to run in some lines. In any case, the longer you leave a girl entire the more likely she is to develop tumours. When I was breeding I lost five girls from mammary tumours. They ranged in age from nine to fifteen when they died. The nine year old came down one of the lines I mentioned above but to my great regret, two of the others were bred for too long and my vet was reluctant to spay one of the others because she had a coronavirus titre. By the time he relented, it was too late. The fifteen year old probably had her normal life span but she was spayed at four and still did not escape.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Nikkitty said:


> If they are all girls I would not spay them as my 2 cats are female, they would be indoors all the time so no risk of breeding or being bred from. It's not Agria its boughtbymany and covers up to 7K. And the "assumptions" were metaphorical. I dont see how I'm doing anything unethical or inhumane by wanting 1 litter for myself, yet you're treating me as though I'd be torturing kittens or cats. You can save all the anger and frustration pent up for the people who actually abuse their cats and pump out factories of kittens in horrible conditions, or actually torture them alive. I'm willing to foot all medical Bill's, keep kittens in case some are born unhealthy, both stud and mother are healthy and health checked, and otherwise all kittens are 100% guaranteed good homes. But anyway, thanks some posters for your actually useful advice. I appreciate it


You continue to put words into my mouth and motives into my mind.

Females need spaying. NEED spaying. Except those that are part of a registered pedigree breeding program. Have you not heard of the risks of breast cancer, or of pyometra? Or unplanned pregnancies when a female has escaped? Or that a lot of them spray when in call?

In my view you are exposing her to the risks of not being spayed, and of breeding, for yourself - because you want a kitten and aren't prepared to wait. In my book that's selfish. Not being prepared to wait has also driving prices up, massively in some cases.

In a few months time I think the situation WRT rescues, kittens, prices etc. will be going back to normal, but you aren't willing to wait.


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

This thread is becoming rather unkind. OP has already mated her cat so the damage is done. Please stop with the lectures. I think OP has probably heard enough by now and i enough they are feeling rather horrible and quite bullied. OP has the insurance to make sure her cat and all kittens are kept safe and healthy, has suitable homes for all of them and isn't even doing this for the money. Although I don't agree with it, OP came here for advice, not endless lectures, so here is my advice. Her nipples dont look pregnant, except for the one which looks pink. It is rare but not unheard of for pregnant cats to show all other signs except much pinking. Since she is showing other signs i reccomend to feed her kitten food from now on, in case she is pregnant. As this is her only litter, she can be spayed about 2 weeks after the kittens have stopped breast feeding them. Its important to spay female cats as leaving them entire puts them at increased risk of serious health problems such as cancer. It is also cruel to force her to live her whole life going through heat cycles, getting frustrated. Also in my experience having multiple entire girls often causes them to spray. It really is important to neuter ALL cats, not just the boys.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

In a way it is unkind, however: "I know I shouldn't breed her as she's not active, but ...."


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

OrientalSlave said:


> In a way it is unkind, however: "I know I shouldn't breed her as she's not active, but ...."


i agree with you xxx


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

It's been said on this forum , quite regularly, that the only breeding we support is *ethical *breeding from cats who are registered active and had all required *health testing.*
The queen in this is not registered active and I see no mention of any health testing. 
As members place cats and kittens' welfare first and foremost and rules have been broken , their consternation is only to be expected.


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

True, i also find it frustrating and do not support this type of breeding, however as i said the damage is done so the least we can do, as knowledgeable experts is offer our advice to help OP keep cats and kittens healthy and properly looked after, and express our frustration WITHOUT bullying OP, who did in fact say that both parents have been health tested to ensure good health of kittens. I think what OP has done is wrong, however i wont bully a person and i urge you all to be kind as well as honest


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Fortunately, in this case, there are only recessive conditions to be tested in these breeds and none occur in both Siamese and Burmese. Presumably both cats have had Felv/FIV blood tests. The biggest concern is not related to the initial post mentioning the one litter. It is the subsequent statement that none of the girls will be neutered. This would cause consternation whatever the theme of the thread.


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Rlouise said:


> True, i also find it frustrating and do not support this type of breeding, however as i said the damage is done so the least we can do, as knowledgeable experts is offer our advice to help OP keep cats and kittens healthy and properly looked after, and express our frustration WITHOUT bullying OP, who did in fact say that both parents have been health tested to ensure good health of kittens. I think what OP has done is wrong, however i wont bully a person and i urge you all to be kind as well as honest


I think it's the frustration causing the terse replies, but would not call it bullying.


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

QOTN said:


> Fortunately, in this case, there are only recessive conditions to be tested in these breeds and none occur in both Siamese and Burmese. Presumably both cats have had Felv/FIV blood tests. The biggest concern is not related to the initial post mentioning the one litter. It is the subsequent statement that none of the girls will be neutered. This would cause consternation whatever the theme of the thread.


Yes i dont know why you wouldn't want to spay your girls if you didn't plan on breeding them. Just lazy


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Rlouise said:


> Yes i dont know why you wouldn't want to spay your girls if you didn't plan on breeding them. Just lazy


Some see it as 'un-natural' and depriving the queen of her right to mother-hood.


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

SusieRainbow said:


> Some see it as 'un-natural' and depriving the queen of her right to mother-hood.


If that's the case, people should be buying active cats and breeding deliberately to further a breed, or not owning a cat at all...


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Rlouise said:


> If that's the case, people should be buying active cats and breeding deliberately to further a breed, or not owning a cat at all...


Exactly, that's the message we need to get across .


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

This girl was mated well before their previous thread about a P4H kitten.
Perhaps the 500+ pricetag for any 'surplus' kittens has been enticing.

No decent stud owner is risking their reputation and registration for their mate, nor are they getting an unregistered kitten back - it has absolutely no value to them.

I see no reason why anyone would subject their poor girls to remaining entire and not part of a (registered) breeding program. Ourselves having a precocious breed that calls from a very tender age & frequently it would be a very miserable and cruel life for them, never mind the aforementioned health risks.



Rlouise said:


> as knowledgeable experts


I don't believe any seasoned breeders are referring to themselves as experts, even with decades of experience. How bold! 
A trait newer breeders tend to hold, knowing it all before experiencing.


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## Lunarags (Jan 16, 2021)

I havent seen any previous threads about p4h matings so i didnt know. 


spotty cats said:


> I don't believe any seasoned breeders are referring to themselves as experts, even with decades of experience. How bold!
> A trait newer breeders tend to hold, knowing it all before experiencing.


Why are you always so rude? In comparison to people like OP, experienced breeders like you and I are 'knowledgeable experts'. Of course noone knows everything.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

No, I am not an expert hence my saying so. More experienced than the OP, yes.

How you interpret posts is up to you, nothing said was rude.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

SusieRainbow said:


> Some see it as 'un-natural' and depriving the queen of her right to mother-hood.


Not the case here as she has stated "they would be indoors all the time so no risk of breeding or being bred from". So I've no idea why the OP won't spay female cats, unless she is planning more breeding than she has let on.


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

SusieRainbow said:


> I see no mention of any health testing


I thought in post #4 she said the queen was ''health tested''; did I misread that?


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## Calvine (Aug 20, 2012)

Nikkitty said:


> Shes health tested,


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

Sorry, I missed that.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Calvine said:


> I thought in post #4 she said the queen was ''health tested''; did I misread that?


I wonder what she means by that? The vet has given her s once over?


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

@Nikkitty please be careful with Agria's breeding cover they only the first £1500 not the cats full coverage of £7k.

I save the additional insurance premium for the breeding cover as it is expensive and £1500 doesn't cover much.

My cats in-hours semi planned c-section was £950 in 2019 and that was just the c-section and meds. It was over a £1000 for the 11 week old kitten who ate a piece of fleece and ended up with a partial bowel blockage and prolapsed rectum from it. That was just one litter (and a sheepskin rug). I was lucky that our vet looked after her for the weekend rather than admit her to the OOH vets. As that would easily have been double the price.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

lillytheunicorn said:


> @Nikkitty please be careful with Agria's breeding cover they only the first £1500 not the cats full coverage of £7k.
> 
> I save the additional insurance premium for the breeding cover as it is expensive and £1500 doesn't cover much.
> 
> My cats in-hours semi planned c-section was £950 in 2019 and that was just the c-section and meds. It was over a £1000 for the 11 week old kitten who ate a piece of fleece and ended up with a partial bowel blockage and prolapsed rectum from it. That was just one litter (and a sheepskin rug). I was lucky that our vet looked after her for the weekend rather than admit her to the OOH vets. As that would easily have been double the price.


Apparently it's BroughtByMany and they cover £7k for the first litter. I wonder how many serial one-litter cats they let one person claim for?


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## Tigermoon (Apr 2, 2013)

This thread alone is a shining example why ALL breeders and ALL rescues need to ESN their kittens. I hope I am not the only person who finds the supportive comments on this thread quite shocking.


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

@OrientalSlave I missed that bit about it being Brought by Many. I didn't know they would cover first pregnancy, that's not going to help with BYB.s :Arghh


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## Nikkitty (Feb 5, 2021)

thank you all so much for your advice. Since from many opinions here it doesnt matter if the stud or queen is pedigree or health tested, just a piece of paper, I have now decided to let all breathing cats of mine to roam freely and be mass impregnated following your advice. Thats 1 persian, 1 siamese and 1 moggy. I hope for many cross breeds. Hoping I'll get at least one siamese look alike. Thank you x


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## lillytheunicorn (Nov 17, 2012)

The piece of paper I have for my cats is the history of these cats, blood, sweat and many tears. They are the history of people’s dedication to my breed, the titles people have worked for. I am proud of my piece of paper. The active registration for my cats was due to the trust I gained from their breeder. The support and knowledge she gave me. So no it’s not just a piece of paper.


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