# Food allergy. James wellbeloved.



## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

Hi,

My other half just discovered some information that might be causing Pippins loose stools.

Apparently a food allergy can cause loose stalls, scratching and gnawing of the skin and gas can all be attributed to to a food allergy.

Pippin in 10months old and has always had a problem with his stools but we presumed he was just sensitive to the treats. However, he has now been on a 'kibble only diet' for a little while and it is still getting worse. He is fully wormed and doesnt have access to to any other food or water. 

We want to try a change of food, but what should we go for?
There might be a way of swapping for another kibble.

And yes, we would like to have him on raw, but we dont have a cheapper supply of meat from butchers, or the freezer space, or the kitchen space to defrost food. We suppliment his diet with raw food a few times a week (but not recently to try and find out what is causing problems).


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## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

If I were you I would have a look at the http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/189896-dry-dog-food-index.html thread paying close attention to the ingredients of each.


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

Will do.

I'll have to make a list and tick them off as I go along.

This holistic food.
Natural dog food, healthy, hypoallergenic, holistic dog food from Land of Holistic Pets

Any advice on it?
I'm just about to order some and see how he does on it. You have to rehydrate it.


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## marycorbitt (Jan 28, 2012)

My son fed my dog something from our table and I don't know what it is but it also caused my dog to scratch so much. When I went to the vet the doctor recommended a brand that is a bit expensive. Do you know anything cheap that can be a replacement.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2012)

I'd feed a good quality grain-free diet such as Orijin to start with and see if that helps, as grain is a big culprit in food allergies. Ideally you'd do an elimination diet to rule out foods one by one, but that's difficult to do on commercial food. If it's not grain causing the allergy then it could be the protein source - I understand chicken causes quite a few allergies.

Personally I can recommend Ziwipeak - it's dried raw. The main protein source is venison/venison and fish/lamb depending on the variety - the venison one is useful if you want to try a new protein source, although it does have some fish in it too and blue and green-lipped mussel. If you look at it, don't be put off by the price straight away - yes it IS expensive but you feed a VERY small amount so it's not as astronomically expensive as it seems at first. As a guide 1kg lasts my small dog about 5 weeks.

Has he seen a vet?


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## JohnT (Oct 1, 2010)

I can recomend Acana range, made by same company as Orijen less meat.

For my girl that has a lot of allergies and is diabetic its worked wonders, all dogs are fine on all of the flavours, No grain at all or beet pulp etc and easy to mix with raw.


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

I guess we should stick to James Wellbeloved then and change the flavour.
I'll get the fish one. Then if that doesn't work I'll try a higher quality food.


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

That Ziwipeaks would work out to £80 for 19days!
The jump from james wellbeloved at £25/month to Ziwipeaks at £120/month would be a bit much.

The orijen seems a bit more affordable back to £30/month!


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2012)

Lewiswalks said:


> I guess we should stick to James Wellbeloved then and change the flavour.
> I'll get the fish one. Then if that doesn't work I'll try a higher quality food.


If he's having problems on the JWB I wouldn't keep him on the food - I think it's unlikely that a simple change in flavour will solve the problem.



Lewiswalks said:


> That Ziwipeaks would work out to £80 for 19days!
> The jump from james wellbeloved at £25/month to Ziwipeaks at £120/month would be a bit much.


Fair enough, I didn't know how much Pippin weighs. Unfortunately it's expensive for bigger dogs but cheaper than Orijin for me.


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

Well he is 21kg but only 10months so he may fill out a bit yet.

I look at 30kg when looking for a product to include Beatrix our 5kg whippet mix.

I've ordered the Orijen. Thank you for the recommendation. We shall see if that does the trick!

Now... Seeing as Pippin has an intolerance to his current food. Should I change over right away, or still change over slowly as is recommended?

What should I do in the meantime (delivery 5days!). 
Should I feed him on just boiled chicken and rice? Then I wont have to keep feeding him the old kibble while transitioning on the orijen?


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

Lewiswalks said:


> I guess we should stick to James Wellbeloved then and change the flavour.
> I'll get the fish one. Then if that doesn't work I'll try a higher quality food.


*Yes *the KEY to changing foods is not just moving BRANDS but the PROTEIN SOURCE!

No point in moving your dog from chicken and rice made by Brand X to chicken and rice by Brand Y.

This is what most people do and wonder why they fail.

It is generally a specific protein that triggers an allergy.

However it is iimportant to understand the difference between an allergy and a food intolerance; the two are not the same.

So if you look at a packet of say lamb JWB and chicken JWB and the only difference is the protein source, that gives you an opportunity to determine whether or not one of those proteins are causing a problem.

However, I would also say that have you looked at the treats, if any you give, and also are you over feeding?

The most common cause of loose and/or frequent stools is overfeeding IME.

It may say feed x gms for x kgs of dog, but all are individuals, so something to keep in mind.

Also it is not always a "quality" issue merely an ingredient one.

HTH


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> *Yes *the KEY to changing foods is not just moving BRANDS but the PROTEIN SOURCE!
> 
> No point in moving your dog from chicken and rice made by Brand X to chicken and rice by Brand Y.
> 
> ...


I could be wrong but isn't it more likely that the grains are causing the problems than the protein source, therefore rule the grains out first?


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

*


Lewiswalks said:



I guess we should stick to James Wellbeloved then and change the flavour.

Click to expand...

*


Lewiswalks said:


> *I'll get the fish one. Then if that doesn't work I'll try a higher quality food.*




I had to change from James Wellbeloved because one of my bitches has a food intolerance/allergy.

Mine are all on Arden Grange and the bitch with the problem is doing really well on the Hypoallergenic Ocean White Fish and Potato Sensitive.

Another good one that is also reasonably priced, is Fish4dogs but I just can't stomach the strong fishy smell.

HTH


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

McKenzie said:


> I could be wrong but isn't it more likely that the grains are causing the problems than the protein source, therefore rule the grains out first?


Do not forget that grains also contain protein.............................

Also, most people do not have an infinite resource re money, so it is a helluva jump from one outlay to another.

If buying a small bag of another protein based food in the same range at the same price solves the problem, everybody wins.

If it does not, then the NEXT step can be taken by STILL staying with the same brand and for example using JWB grain free............ of which there are two types.

So, we are still maintaining the main protocol which is identifying the trigger but also staying within the brand and price range.

If by changing a protein source, and removing grains there is STILL an issue, then you can explore further.

This is strategic planning...................

When changing foods or behaviours it is important not to focus on ONE thing at the expense of the whole picture................ IMHO


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## sianrees1979 (Feb 27, 2009)

my boy dachshund dai was on james wellbeloved and had soft poop and was always scratching, i changed to burns he had problems with anal glands now he gets arden grange sensitive dry and mainly naturediet or arden grange partners wet also occasionally lily's kitchen as it's £2.20 - £2.49 a tin


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## Mum2Heidi (Feb 17, 2010)

Perhaps worth a mention the fish and potato here with AllergyX. Working Dog Food Adult Dog food | WorkingHPRs
If all else fails it could be the answer. I know he's only 10 months but personally I wouldn't be concerned putting him on adult food.

I've used the duck and potato and can vouch for it. Price wise v competitive and cereal free. Comes in 15k bags but the larger amounts work out cheaper.

Unfortunately, mine doesnt do will on kibble in general so I feed all wet food.

In the meantime, I hope the orijen you've ordered is the answer for you


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

That's great. Thank you all for your info.
I have about a kilo of JWB fish from a friend to test him on. 
And as i said i've ordered a 7kg bag of orijen.

I've taken him off of JWB completely without any transition and he is now on rice and chicken mince (from pets at home).
Not sure how much to feed him, but it's only for a while.

I'll transition him on to the Orijen and give it a month to see how he goes.
If he is fine on that I will start to add some of the Fish JWB and see if that's ok for him. I might try a few others anyway just so we can isolate what he is having trouble with.

Most treats we have tried make him bad so it would be nice to know what affects him.

To answer SMOKEYBEAR.
I dont think we are over feeding. JWB says for his size 300-375g of kibble per day and he is on about 200g. Any more and it makes him worse. Plus when I was feeding him that amount he was getting a fatty layer.

Plus, we know he is fine on chicken and turkey as we feed him raw and cooked chicken and turkey which makes his stools better.

We have already noticed an improvement in the last 24hours on the rice and chicken.


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

OATS!!!!!
Bloody things!
On rice and chicken, Pippins stools were fine.

I started going down the list of ingredients in james wellbeloved and oats are the 3rd one.
So I put a bunch of oats on his dinner last night and I've never seen such a brightly coloured poo.

It migh tnot be the only thing but we certainly know he cant have them.

Thanks for your help everyone. I'm glad we know what it is.


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## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Lewiswalks said:


> Well he is 21kg but only 10months so he may fill out a bit yet.
> 
> I look at 30kg when looking for a product to include Beatrix our 5kg whippet mix.
> 
> ...


Orijen is a great choice. A couple of years ago, I was in the same situation you're in now as my dog Ziggy kept getting colitis (loose poose, noisy churning guts) and I did an instant switch of food. I reckoned if the old food was the problem then one more mouthful was one too many. She adapted without any problems to Orijen and all her digestive problems were solved in an instant.

I wouldn't switch to boiled chicken and rice, it's likely the rice in the James Wellbeloved is the problem. Just keep on as you are until the new food arrives, then get Pippin onto that as quickly as possible for her. Orijen is quite rich and you feed a smaller amount - it can look like not enough!

These days I feed Fish4Dogs, so I can afford to have both my dogs on it.


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## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

Lewiswalks said:


> I guess we should stick to James Wellbeloved then and change the flavour.
> I'll get the fish one. Then if that doesn't work I'll try a higher quality food.


Out of all the things she's ever eaten, James Wellbeloved is the only thing that has ever caused my dog Rosie, to have an upset stomach...we introduced it gradually, and the greater the proportion of JWB, the sloppier the poo!!!

We soon switched straight back...
Naomi x


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

missnaomi said:


> Out of all the things she's ever eaten, James Wellbeloved is the only thing that has ever caused my dog Rosie, to have an upset stomach...we introduced it gradually, and the greater the proportion of JWB, the sloppier the poo!!!
> 
> We soon switched straight back...
> Naomi x


Same here. Pippins poos have been ok in the past. Now I'm taking him out twice a day and for much longer walks and runs I upped his food. That's when I noticed his poos getting worse and worse and finally realised it was the kibble.

He is still sensitive to plenty of other things though. Now that I know he is great on rice and chicken mince I can start to work though everything else.
Tripe, pork, beef, fish, eggs etc and see if he has a problem with anything else.


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## catseyes (Sep 10, 2010)

Glad your doggy is feeling better we have grizz on jwb hes tummy wont take some of the others we have tried - however he gets a bad tummy if we feed him the duck jwb, is fine on turkey, fish and lamb but the duck gives him runs.


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## Hertsgirl (Nov 17, 2011)

We have Cookie on JWB Fish, she is fine on that but the chicken doesn't agree with her tummy & the lamb she doesn't like! Fussy madam


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## Bethysdad (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi,
I've just joined this forum, and am interested in this particular debate.

I have 2 westies - Lily @ 2 1/2 & Poppy @ 6 months. Lily came to us at 8 weeks on Puppy Eukanuba, we changed her to Adult at 14 months, and had no real problems...
Poppy, came on Bakers Complete Puppy, which she wasn't that keen on; we changed her to Eukanuba Puppy, which she loves.

Both of them are quite different characters, but really anxious when visiting the vets. Lily barks at all dogs on our walks, and if off the lead will chase after them to play.
Poppy hides behind my legs, after an initial bark or two.
Wondering if the Euk is winding them up...

I changed them both over gradually to JWB (Puppy for Poppy - Adult (small bite) for Lily)

Poppy loves it, and her poos have solidified a bit too.

Lily has gone really more anxious - especially in the middle of the night, so she has gone back to the Euk (£/Kg is about the same for the small bite)

I have no way of knowing if Poppy will be OK on this longterm, but Lily is a lot more fussy with her food, and after I get her stabalised back on the Euk, I may try others, and this post is giving me more ideas.

Thanks

Dave


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

Bethysdad said:


> Hi,
> I've just joined this forum, and am interested in this particular debate.
> 
> I have 2 westies - Lily @ 2 1/2 & Poppy @ 6 months. Lily came to us at 8 weeks on Puppy Eukanuba, we changed her to Adult at 14 months, and had no real problems...
> ...


This is defiantly a training issue.
I wouldn't think that the food would make them do this, however Pippin's mood and enthusiasm for games has improved since changing his food.
Saying that 'Euk' is a pretty low quality food and if you only have small dogs it wouldnt cost much more (per day) to change to a better food.

Eukaunba is slightly higher quality than what you find in supermarkets, but very poor compared to standard dog food.
Have a look at the ingredients on the back. If the first one isnt meat, then I wouldn't bother with it.


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## Bethysdad (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks for the reply,

Lily is back on Euk, and has definitly settled back down. I am a bit wary of changing it again - yet - but its quality surprises me; Pets at Home don't stock it as it's "too expensive" (presumably the mark up for them is too low)

Poppy is still on the JWB puppy formula, and loving it.

Dave


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

alfie had a terrible tum but also had camphlobactor and giardia after treatment and a switch to jwb lamb puppy and now adult along with chicken and potatoes he has had a stable tummy since november thankfully!

i feel like giving him a go on another flavour but am worried it might cause a reaction and he likes the lamb anyway, also tried nd a bit of a tray and he had a slight blip so am worried about changing a slight thing!!!


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

Bethysdad said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> 
> Lily is back on Euk, and has definitly settled back down. I am a bit wary of changing it again - yet - but its quality surprises me; Pets at Home don't stock it as it's "too expensive" (presumably the mark up for them is too low)
> 
> ...


That is strange seeing as its half the price of james wellbeloved.
Euk is trying to fill the gap between cheap supermarket brands (wagg/chum/bakers) and the higher quality stuff. However, by doing that they are alienating themselves from a lot of potential customers.
The bottom line is that its not a particularly good quality food and their marketing strategy is even worse. I have a friend who works for them. Apparently they are having a change around. They are ether going to bring out a better quality range, or re-brand. They spend millions on advertising worldwide in the last few years, gave away thousands of 3kg trial packs and even sponsored a TV show. still didnt improve sales.


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## GarethMills (Feb 23, 2010)

Hi Guys,

I own a pet shop, and have to say that the Duck JWB often does cause tummy problems, and i can only put this down to the higher fat content of duck meat, and the fact that duck is very rich.

Those of you on Eukanuba, go to your local independant pet shops for it!! [email protected] are about to reintroduce it to their stores, but your local independant will be able to get it for you, and sometimes have access to the offers - We currently have 3kg free on selected 15kg bags etc.

Those of you that still have stool and sensitivity issues try 'Green Dog' this is a little harder to find as they are careful who stock it - we keep it here and have had phenomenal results with almost all that try it! Green Dog Food - 100% Complete Holistic Dog Food Providing Natural Control of Worms, Fleas and Ticks

Gareth


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## Bethysdad (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi,
*Lewiswalks* - Eukanuba is £15.85 for 3Kg, and the JWB is £8.29 for 2Kg; The reason for me trying the JWB was the fact that I know a few westie owners who are using it (some HAVE found issues with the Duck variant -*Garethmills* - so I've started on the turkey variant)

Lily's behavior changed at the same time I changed them over, and I was advised that maybe there was a higher rice content which was affecting her.
Lily IS better on the EUK - for all its faults. I await their changes with interest.

*GarethMills* - I have had a look at the Green dog Food site - it certainly seems impressive, and works out about £3+/kg - which compares favourably. The only thing I can't tell is the size of the kibble (it looks quuite large in the palm of the hand image) . Lily seems to prefer a small Kibble, and the Euk is about 5mm. The JWB we tried was the small bite version which was about 7 to 10mm, but the ordinary adult is 10mm+.

Thanks

Dave


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

Bethysdad said:


> Hi,
> *Lewiswalks* - Eukanuba is £15.85 for 3Kg, and the JWB is £8.29 for 2Kg; The reason for me trying the JWB was the fact that I know a few westie owners who are using it (some HAVE found issues with the Duck variant -*Garethmills* - so I've started on the turkey variant)
> 
> Lily's behavior changed at the same time I changed them over, and I was advised that maybe there was a higher rice content which was affecting her.
> ...


Blimey. I never realised Euk was so expensive.
That makes it 
euk - 53p/100g whn buying it in 3kg bags.
JWB - is 41p/kg when buying in 2kg bags but 32p/100g in the 15kg bags.

This Origen, when you buy 2 13.5kg bags at a time works out at 37p/100g.
So it really wouldnt cost a noticeable difference to have your dogs on some of the highest quality food available.

This is from the dry dog food index link at the beggining of this thread.

EUKANUBA (medium breed, chicken)

Price (15kg): £48.99
Suggested daily amount: 150g
Daily feeding cost: 49p

Ingredients: Chicken (24%), maize, wheat, animal fat, sorghum, barley, poultry meal, dried beet pulp, chicken digest, dried whole egg, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, salt, sodium hexametaphosphate, fish oil, linseed, DL-methionine, EC permitted antioxidants


JAMES WELLBELOVED (turkey & rice)

Price (15kg): £39.99
Suggested daily amount: 235g
Daily feeding cost: 63p

Ingredients: Rice (26%), turkey meat meal (26%), oats (19%) whole linseed, turkey gravy, turkey fat, sugar beet pulp, alfalfa, natural seaweed, chicory extract, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, lysine, DL-methionine, yucca extract, threonine, JWB special ingredients.

RRP is £48

ORIJEN (six fish)

Price (13.5kg): £64.99
Suggested daily amount: 175g
Daily feeding cost: 84p

Ingredients: Fresh salmon, salmon meal, herring meal, russet potato, fresh whitefish, sweet potato, peas, salmon oil, fresh walleye, fresh herring, alfalfa, fresh flounder, fresh lake trout, dehydrated kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, liquorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements, mineral supplement, dried lactobacillus acidophilus product, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

You can ignore the prices as there are always deals on origen.


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## Bethysdad (Feb 5, 2012)

Green dog food are supposed to be sending me some samples.

Will defo look towards the orijen though - need to locate a stckist

Thanks

Dave


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## Lewiswalks (Aug 29, 2011)

Bethysdad said:


> Green dog food are supposed to be sending me some samples.
> 
> Will defo look towards the orijen though - need to locate a stckist
> 
> ...


http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/221429-where-buy-origen.html


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## Bethysdad (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi,
Been given some skinners salmon & rice to try.......
http://www.skinnerspetfoods.co.uk/products/field---trial-products/salmon---rice/

The duck is amber in the index....
Salmon not mentioed..

Dave


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