# Alizin and pyometra



## coral82 (Feb 17, 2014)

Has anyone have had or none a bitch to get pyometra after having the Alizin injection?


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Alizin is used to treat pyometra, so I would imagine it's unusual. Any more info?


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## coral82 (Feb 17, 2014)

Well my girl had the Alizin injection 3 wks ago which was a week after an accidentle mating and on day 21 of her season which was the end. Ever since my boy has still been very interested in her and ive been unable to keep them together. Since then she has been loosing a tiny drop of discharge every now and then but this is nothing unusual afyer her seasons but today its got more and ive noticed a pink tinge to it. She is perfectly well in her self, eating fine and playing like a nutter. I took her to the vets earlier and he said it looks similar to pyo discharge but she is fine in herself, no temp, abdomin feels fine and her was happy with her in herself. He said as she is young and well its more likely to be a vaginal infection and prescribed antibiotics but said keep an eye on her and if any changes bring her straight back in for a scan.
What are peoples thoughts?


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## fluffybunny2001 (Feb 8, 2008)

alizin brings bitches back into season,so i`d imagine that's why your boy is interested in her again,and why shes bleeding


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

coral82 said:


> Well my girl had the Alizin injection 3 wks ago which was a week after an accidentle mating and on day 21 of her season which was the end. Ever since my boy has still been very interested in her and ive been unable to keep them together. Since then she has been loosing a tiny drop of discharge every now and then but this is nothing unusual afyer her seasons but today its got more and ive noticed a pink tinge to it. She is perfectly well in her self, eating fine and playing like a nutter. I took her to the vets earlier and he said it looks similar to pyo discharge but she is fine in herself, no temp, abdomin feels fine and her was happy with her in herself. He said as she is young and well its more likely to be a vaginal infection and prescribed antibiotics but said keep an eye on her and if any changes bring her straight back in for a scan.
> What are peoples thoughts?


Pretty much what's been said, Alizin brings bitches back into season, surely your vet should know this? I would just be keeping a close eye on her, for two reasons, to ensure there's no underlying infection and also to ensure your boy doesn't manage to catch her again.

Well done for doing the responsible thing, there are far too many *accidental* litters as it is! I hope your girl is ok, would love to hear updates.


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## coral82 (Feb 17, 2014)

I am aware and the vet did inform me it can bring her back in season but I am pretty sure and so was the vet that she is not in season. She isnt bleeding as such its a discharge that looks like snot but with a pink bloody tinge.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Snot texture is normal, I have photos (because I'm sad) of one of my girls in season, and they can get a thick, stringy discharge that would resemble *snot*, to some extent. 

Oh the joys of discussing these things online, if I wasn't such a dog nerd I would probably be splitting my sides at the descriptions of *discharge*.


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## coral82 (Feb 17, 2014)

Pmsl, I must be sad aswell then as I took a photo aswell earlier. I am also a dog nerd lol


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

coral82 said:


> Pmsl, I must be sad aswell then as I took a photo aswell earlier. I am also a dog nerd lol


Dog nerds are well and truly welcome on this forum! You'll possibly find the discussions on poo quantity and texture more interesting! Or not..........

Off to get my coat.......


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## coral82 (Feb 17, 2014)

Lol its funny me and a friend often laugh at ourselves as we pick up our dogs poo's on a walk and start discussing the consistency and colour of it


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

coral82 said:


> Lol its funny me and a friend often laugh at ourselves as we pick up our dogs poo's on a walk and start discussing the consistency and colour of it


I had to rep you for that, a few posts in and already admitting that level of *nerdity*!!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

coral82 said:


> Has anyone have had or none a bitch to get pyometra after having the Alizin injection?


Alizin is actually used by some vets for Pyometra especially the closed type where the infection gets sealed in the uterus. They use it so that the cervix opens and infection drains, instead of going straight in with surgery sometimes now as its sometimes easier then operating on an enlarged pus filled uterus.

Although only a small percent in field trials I know partial termination did happen, so for that reason they should have a through exam after the alizin is used think its about 10 days, to make sure there has been a full termination and nothing is left. In whelping bitches you have to make sure that all the placentas are delivered and all the puppies have been born as that can cause infection which is basically what pyometra is uterine infection.

Owners should be advised if after the mismate is given they see any pus like discharge, or discharge lasting longer the three weeks, as pus like discharge is a sign of infection then it sounds like pyometra could be a possibility. With closed pyometra you don't get a discharge as the infection is sealed inside the uterus, and you don't know there is a problem often until the dog becomes unwell.

If Allizin is given after day 20 of gestation (although it can be used up to day 45) the risks of complications can increaase, again in field trials although the percentage was quite low there were uterine infections so yes it is possible. In some there was also an early return of the season too in fact that seems to have quite frequently been observed shortening the gap in seasons by 1/3 months.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

coral82 said:


> I am aware and the vet did inform me it can bring her back in season but I am pretty sure and so was the vet that she is not in season. She isnt bleeding as such its a discharge that looks like snot but with a pink bloody tinge.


Pyo infection isn't always thickened, pus like or odd coloured, it can be quite normal season looking.


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## coral82 (Feb 17, 2014)

Just picking up on the bit that says that all placentas should be passed or its very dangerous and can course infection that is not alwaus the case I have a few dogs not pass them infact one of my girls passed none of hers after the pups and was fine, I did panic and call the vet after she had finished whelping and they said not to worry as they normally break down snd pass with no issues to the bitch but to of course keep an eye on her.
The vet also did mention earlier that Alizin can be used for pyo instead of going straight in for surgery.


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## kodakkuki (Aug 8, 2011)

coral82 said:


> Just picking up on the bit that says that all placentas should be passed or its very dangerous and can course infection that is not alwaus the case I have a few dogs not pass them infact one of my girls passed none of hers after the pups and was fine, I did panic and call the vet after she had finished whelping and they said not to worry as they normally break down *and pass with no issues* to the bitch but to of course keep an eye on her.
> The vet also did mention earlier that Alizin can be used for pyo instead of going straight in for surgery.


so in other words, she DID pass them, just not with the pups?

a retained placenta can be very dangerous, and can effectively rot inside her womb- if internal rotting tissue isn't a problem i don't know what is! i've known of many cases where this has killed the bitch- leaving an orphaned litter. when my girls finish with a placenta left they go for an oxytocin shot to 'clean out' her womb...

but yes, my vet prefers to treat with pyo before going straight in for a spay- it lessens the chances of rupture i believe.

your vet sounds like he has it all covered with your girl atm- but then we are all prone to over-reacting when your little girls aren't 101% normal! :aureola:


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## coral82 (Feb 17, 2014)

Sorry I thought you ment passed after each pup.
You are right in the fact we can worry a little too much sometimes when it comes to our fur babies. Do you think that all sounds ok for now and that as she seems well in her self and is eating fine that im ok just keeping an eye on her or would you take her in for a scan?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

coral82 said:


> Sorry I thought you ment passed after each pup.
> You are right in the fact we can worry a little too much sometimes when it comes to our fur babies. Do you think that all sounds ok for now and that as she seems well in her self and is eating fine that im ok just keeping an eye on her or would you take her in for a scan?


With open pyo you don't often see such severe signs or not at first. High temp, off food, depressed and lethargic may happen or sometimes it doesn't.

With the Closed pyo as said there is no discharge at all to warn you, and as pus and toxins cant escape and drain the first signs you usually see are being ill, Off food, depressed lethargic sometimes they will vomit and have diarrhoea and quite often a temperature.

One thing that tends to occur In both types though in common, is usually excessive drinking and urinating so keep a watch out for that.


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## coral82 (Feb 17, 2014)

I have to say im a tad cross, just been reading up about the Alizin injection and it does state there is risk of the bitch getting pyo after having it. I was not informed by the vet before my girl having it he said that the only real side affect if given it early on is they could come back into season. Even today after all thats been going on with her after having the injection he said it was nothing to do with the Alizin. 
I did have alot of people tell me after that they didn't agree with it and that it can do funny things to bitches. I wish id never given it to her, i was just trying to be responsible. I do want to have pups from her and I did actually take her to stud but unfortunately the day after my boy (a different breed) got at her and I didn't want to take the risk of her having a cross breed litter :-(


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

coral82 said:


> I have to say im a tad cross, just been reading up about the Alizin injection and it does state there is risk of the bitch getting pyo after having it. I was not informed by the vet before my girl having it he said that the only real side affect if given it early on is they could come back into season. Even today after all thats been going on with her after having the injection he said it was nothing to do with the Alizin.
> I did have alot of people tell me after that they didn't agree with it and that it can do funny things to bitches. I wish id never given it to her, i was just trying to be responsible. I do want to have pups from her and I did actually take her to stud but unfortunately the day after my boy (a different breed) got at her and I didn't want to take the risk of her having a cross breed litter :-(


In field studies yes although it was only a very low percent it did happen, so therefore its possible. That's why they should warn you if discharge carries on past 3 weeks, or particularly if a pus type discharge that's thickened and odd coloured you should go back. They should be checked again about 10 days to 2 weeks after the Alizins been given any way, to make sure the uterus is clear and a partial termination hasn't taken place according to the manufacturers instructions, which although again was a low percentage in field trials again it can happen sometimes.

As you say though its like being stuck between a rock and a hard place, if she is still mentally and physically too young especially, and the other dog is another breed particularly a larger one, plus considering the number of crosses already in rehoming centres or unwanted what do you do? Seems although you have been unlucky if she is in the minority and got an infection, at least you did the responsible thing as far as shes concerned.


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## MerlinsMum (Aug 2, 2009)

coral82 said:


> I did have alot of people tell me after that they didn't agree with it and that it can do funny things to bitches. I wish id never given it to her, i was just trying to be responsible. :-(


I have heard plenty who say nothing but good about it. It's swings and roundabouts - compared to the damage (mentally and physically) a litter can do - to you as well as the bitch - it has a lot going for it.

The Old style mismate jab was *definitely* a high risk option, so just be sure they're talking about the same one.

To be honest, bitches can get infections after seasons whether or they have been mated or not - and Alizin or not - so it might just be an unfortunate co-incidence. There are also a few sexually transmitted infections in dogs, such as canine herpes - this can cause a huge issue in a pregnant bitch leading to miscarriage, re-absorption or puppies that die soon after birth. So, given all the unknowns, it may not be wholly the fault of the Alizin.


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## coral82 (Feb 17, 2014)

She is 3 so her age is fine and the other breed is of similar size but as you said there is enough cross bred pups in the world although as the stud dog I chose mated her first I could of been stopping her having a pure bred litter but I just didn't want to take the risk.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I would be very concerned about giving any hormone injections to bitches that are going to be used for breeding in the future. 

I am very much out of date so could easily be talking rubbish but there was a very high incidence of pyo in bitches that had had either the injection or tablets to stop a season and I know at least two people whose potential breeding bitches had pyo at a very young age after having seasons stopped for convenience. I do not see why the modern drugs are necessarily going to be safer - and aborting a bitch is going to be similar.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Okay, so Alizin is aglepristone. This is a progesterone receptor antagonist. When progesterone levels are running high (for example during pregnancy), aglepristone will bind the hormone receptors instead of progesterone to reduce its effects, this ending the pregnancy. Progesterone levels are also high during pyometra, hence the use of aglespristone to treat pyos.

Historically, oestrogens were used to terminate pregnancy in bitches. The main one, IIRC, is Mesalin. I've never used it personally. It works completely differently to Alizin (it retains the embryos in the oviduct so they can't get into the uterus). Oestrogens used for this purpose have been associated with an increased risk of pyometra. When used, they have to be given during heat.


Now, back to Alizin. It is recommended that Alizin is given 7-10d after the mating, once the bitch has gone out of heat. Two injections are given 24 hours apart. It's horrible thick stuff so the injections can sometimes be sore or cause a bit of a reaction where they are given (I feel sorry for the dogs - the only reason Alizin is formulated this way is to stop humans abusing the drug :eek6. In larger bitches it is usual to split the injection over more than one site to minimise the volume going into one part of the skin.

When given before day 45 of pregnancy, Alizin has been shown to be 95% effective. Common side effects include tummy upsets and inappetance but these are generally mild and transient.

A snotty brown discharge is common about a week after treatment with Alizin. This is normal and is only cause for concern if the discharge becomes purulent (pus) or haemorrhagic, or if it lasts for more than 3 weeks. In these cases, pyometra must be ruled out so the vet should be informed.

In a field trial, 3.4% of bitches treated with Alizin suffered uterine infections. The risk of pyometra is considered higher with repeated use, but lower than with the more old-fashioned oestrogens. I wonder if this is because repeated use may result in more heat cycles (because of the associated shortening of the interval between heats) and thus increase the incidence of cystic endometrial hyperplasia? Just my theory, could be wrong. I have personally never seen a pyometra following the use of Alizin, but that's just my experience.

As for fertility and return to oestrus with Alizin. There is currently no evidence that future fertility is impaired with Alizin (even with the very next season) - this was reported in a 2000 paper by Galac et al. All aglepristone does is bind progesterone receptors; once it's worn out of the system (80% of it is gone within 24 days - I wouldn't imagine it takes long for the rest to go) the progesterone receptors are unbound again and everything is back to how it was beforehand.

An early return to oestrus is common. I wouldn't expect oestrus to occur as soon as 3 weeks after the injection, though. Usually the interval between heats ends up 1-3 months shorter than normal in the case of the first heat after Alizin.


Now, Delvosteron is proligestone. This is a synthetic progesterone, and is used to suppress or delay heat in bitches. It has the opposite effect of aglepristone (Alizin) and, in contrast, IS associated with an increased risk of pyometra. This is because progesterones cause the cystic endometrial changes associated with the subsequent development of pyos. That said, reported incidence in field trials was only 0.3% so still pretty low.


I guess that, as with all things, it is a matter of weighing up the risks and benefits of treatment with Alizin when making that decision whether or not to terminate a pregnancy. Unfortunately nothing is 100% effective all of the time, and nothing is 100% safe (including pregnancy and whelping, of course).

There is an argument to suggest waiting it out until the bitch is actually confirmed pregnant before treating with Alizin - at least that way you know you definitely need to treat. Alizin will still work just as well at day 25-30 of pregnancy, following a positive scan, as it will when given on day 7-10. But the later you give it, the more chance you have of seeing expulsion of the pups as opposed to resorption.

These things can be such a minefield.


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## coral82 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ok so an update on my girl. She was scanned which was all clear, but had bloods done which did show an infection. She still never became ill through all this just had the discharge that then turned very bloody. The vet said as she wasn't ill and scan was clear to keep a close eye on her over the weekend and she how she reacts to the antibiotics. I have done this am pleased to say she stayed well and the discharge has now gone.


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

Glad she's doing well.


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## jackdaw (Jan 27, 2009)

Ceiling Kitty said:


> Okay, so Alizin is aglepristone. This is a progesterone receptor antagonist. When progesterone levels are running high (for example during pregnancy), aglepristone will bind the hormone receptors instead of progesterone to reduce its effects, this ending the pregnancy. Progesterone levels are also high during pyometra, hence the use of aglespristone to treat pyos.
> 
> Historically, oestrogens were used to terminate pregnancy in bitches. The main one, IIRC, is Mesalin. I've never used it personally. It works completely differently to Alizin (it retains the embryos in the oviduct so they can't get into the uterus). Oestrogens used for this purpose have been associated with an increased risk of pyometra. When used, they have to be given during heat.
> 
> ...


That is really helpful, thank you!


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