# My dog has bitten 3 times



## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

I have a new dog (he’s a rescue) I’ve only had him a month,he’s v friendly most of the time.
24 hours after having him he bit my daughters friend in the face,he’s 16 abd was sat on the sofa near him and we presumed he must have touched him and the dog woke up and bit out of shock.(the friend had to have stitches)
Then I was out with him the other day and he barks and makes lots of noise but he is getting better with training.
A man said oh let him say hello if you like,my dog sniffed his hand then just bit him(so put that down to my fault for letting him go to the man to say hi)
Then my grandson was staying hes 4,my dog adores children but I’m v wary anyway so never leave him alone with children ,we had no incidents ,nothing.
It was so lovely to see.
Then my daughter was in the front room with the dog and grandson and he just turned and bit my grandson on the face .
There were no warning signs,my grandson didn’t suddenly scream or touch him(he had only been stroking him a few minutes before)
They were all side by side almost,all chilled out and then bam he bit him.
Then afterwards he acted like nothing had happened.
Luckily he didn’t break the skin but he did bruise and leave teeth marks.
I’ve been advised to have him pts and I just still can’t justify it to myself as I didn’t witness the facial bites.
There seems to be no actual rhyme or reason to it,there also seems to be no warning signs,we have had a lot of dogs over the years abd my daughters partner trains security dogs so she wouldn’t over react but she said although she wants to find a reason he did it,there really was nothing that change in those few seconds.
He’s the big and dopey,he’s been doing exceptionally well with his basic training with me 
I’m in bits really and just needed people to tell me what they think.
I’ve spoken to the vet and they also seem to think pts but I did have an option for him to go bk to his rescue and live out his days there but because of the corona virus the transport was cancelled and we don’t know when the borders will open again,no sanctuaries in uk will touch him and obv he can’t be rehomed or even fostered.
I don’t even know what I’m expecting from my post ,I’m just in bits over it all but that’s two children now and I have a 7&9 year old of my own


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

You've witnessed the after effects though
Surely that's enough
If you return him to rescue, with such a severe bite history, he'll likely be PTS anyway
I cant tell you what to do though, can't even tell you what I'd do.


Good luck with whatever YOU choose to do though


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

Writing this is making me realise how serious it actually is!
I think I just needed some support as I feel like I'm giving up!
As for pts he's from Romania and for some reason his rescuers over there seem to think he's ok and think if he's just left with the other dogs and is happy he will be fine 


mrs phas said:


> You've witnessed the after effects though
> Surely that's enough
> If you return him to rescue, with such a severe bite history, he'll likely be PTS anyway
> I can tell you what to do though, can't even tell you what I'd do
> ...


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

AnnieD said:


> Writing this is making me realise how serious it actually is!
> I think I just needed some support as I feel like I'm giving up!
> As for pts he's from Romania and for some reason his rescuers over there seem to think he's ok and think if he's just left with the other dogs and is happy he will be fine


So no UK rescue back up?
This is a problem with these street dog imports
When there's a problem, there's no one to turn to
At least with good UK rescues , there's always back up

Sometimes seeing things written down in black and white, opens our eyes

Again
Good luck


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

Oh the uk rescue have her. Amazing but they can’t rehome him or find a foster.
The only solution they could come up with was sending him bk to his rescuer.
They are not saying I should keep him and persevere ,they are fully supportive and if this virus hasn’t taken over,is probably not have found it so difficult for them to have taken him


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

AnnieD said:


> I have a new dog (he's a rescue) I've only had him a month,he's v friendly most of the time.
> 24 hours after having him he bit my daughters friend in the face,he's 16 abd was sat on the sofa near him and we presumed he must have touched him and the dog woke up and bit out of shock.(the friend had to have stitches)
> Then I was out with him the other day and he barks and makes lots of noise but he is getting better with training.
> A man said oh let him say hello if you like,my dog sniffed his hand then just bit him(so put that down to my fault for letting him go to the man to say hi)
> ...


Hi Annie, welcome, sorry it's under such conditions...
I'm going to venture to say there probably were signals, but they were probably extremely subtle. You don't say what his previous life was like, but it's not unusual for dogs to learn that their signals will be ignored, and to then escalate their warnings to a snap or a bite.

Most dogs aren't super crazy about close proximity and it sounds like all the bites where in situations where he was having to share space with people, yes?

Regardless of what you decide, I would stop all close encounters with your children - any children. Dogs and kids simply don't get to interact.

I would also for now just stop all close encounters with him yourself. If he chooses to be near you that's fine, but keep the duration of the closeness short, and step away and give him space after 30 seconds. He may not even know he can move away yet.

It's possible that this is fixable with the right behaviorist. 
You say he has improved with training, what specific training are you doing? Can you describe it?

If a behaviorist is not a possibility (no judgement here), then I'm sorry but I would agree with the recommendation to PTS. It's not fair to him to live out his life in a kennel and you can't in good conscience rehome him. 
There are far worse fates for a troubled dog than a humane death.


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

Ok
Glad that in 15mins, after 11 pm, you've managed to go from
no UK rescue taking him, cos of bite history
To
A UK rescue has agreed to take him
Guess being zen, and, giving up the problem to karma, worked for you all, miracles do indeed happen 
Safe all around


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

AnnieD said:


> Oh the uk rescue have her. Amazing but they can't rehome him or find a foster.
> The only solution they could come up with was sending him bk to his rescuer.
> They are not saying I should keep him and persevere ,they are fully supportive and if this virus hadnt taken over,They wouldn't have found it so difficult for him to be moved /QUOTE]





mrs phas said:


> Ok
> Glad that in 15mins, after 11 pm, you've managed to go from
> no UK rescue taking him, cos of bite history
> To
> ...





mrs phas said:


> Ok
> Glad that in 15mins, after 11 pm, you've managed to go from
> no UK rescue taking him, cos of bite history
> To
> ...


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

Oh no my phone just changed words and I didn’t check until it was too late
They’ve been amazing but apart from returning him to Romania we can’t get anywhere in the up to take him


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

uk


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## mrs phas (Apr 6, 2014)

So your still in the middle of your dilemma?


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

O2.0 said:


> Hi Annie, welcome, sorry it's under such conditions...
> I'm going to venture to say there probably were signals, but they were probably extremely subtle. You don't say what his previous life was like, but it's not unusual for dogs to learn that their signals will be ignored, and to then escalate their warnings to a snap or a bite.
> 
> Most dogs aren't super crazy about close proximity and it sounds like all the bites where in situations where he was having to share space with people, yes?
> ...


He was found starving on the streets in November .
No history known at all.
As for warning signs he is giving none of the normal ones so to us it's unpredictable.
He didn't even look slightly unhappy 
He wasn't being pulled around 
He could move freely and there was no doorway of anything 
If it had been a playful nip or a growl even o could get my head around it!

As for training ,I had a totally green one year old turn up here after travelling 48 hours hence why I let the first bite go .
He now sits,waits
Knows leave it,I now have no food aggression at all.
He no longer jumps all over everyone , biting them (his play bites were v painful as he had only had dog friends before)
He's calm in the house,he's getting better with the cats as I've been following the advice I was given and trying to distract him and giving him a treat.
His lead walking is going really well as he had never been on a lead.

He hasn't had social interaction with other dogs as we hadn't joined our training classes (was due to start last week!)if we see other dogs he barks so much that it it's everyone off.
I've not let him off the lead as he's still a bit overwhelmed out on walks with all the noises etc but he's progressed so much.


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

mrs phas said:


> So your still in the middle of your dilemma?





mrs phas said:


> So your still in the middle of your dilemma?[/
> Yes I am


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

IMO he isn’t a dog that should have gone to a home with children in the first place as having been a street dog in Romania he will likely have been ill treated at some point (or at best not socialised) which makes them temperamentally unpredictable.

It might have been better to have shielded him completely from close encounters to avoid any chance of him biting until he was fully settled and trustworthy, but now it’s happened 3 times (with no apparent warning) I’d say it’s a very high risk situation.

I doubt many UK rescues would have let you take him home for this reason.

Unless he can be in an adult only home (where he should probably be muzzle trained for walking in public) then I think pts would be kindest tbh.

Another 16 years potentially living in rescue (especially abroad where they all run together) would not be something I would be happy about.


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

AnnieD said:


> He now sits,waits
> Knows leave it,I now have no food aggression at all.


May I ask how you taught things like sit and leave it? 
How did you get rid of the food aggression?


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

He sounds a lovely dog most of the time but not sure how you can even consider keeping him. Why did you keep him after the first day when he bit a 16 year old so badly he needed stitches. What happens if he inflicts another injury like that. You are very lucky that no one has reported you so far but if he really injures someone you could go to prison. Have the poor dog pts sad as it is would be to have to do so.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

You've only had him a month?

I cant see how you can really know anything about him in such a short space of time. You have certainly put him in a lot on different situations before he has had the chance to really settle in and find his feet, and im not surprised he is reacting the way he is. He must be completely overwhelmed. 

Have you had a dog before? I cant work out if he is your only dog, or if you have others. You say your dog adores children, but you cant mean this one as you cant possibly know after just 4 weeks.

Sadly, i think PTS is probably in his best interest now. I certainly wouldnt return him to the rescue you got him from; seems to be one of the 'any home is better than no home' brigade, which is often to the detriment of the dog.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Seems like you have a street dog that's been chucked into a house in close proximity with loads of different people, taken into lots of different situations just cannot cope.
I think you've done way too much with this dog way too fast, and you've found out he's stressed via some VERY serious bites. 
It's not fair to pass him to another rescue who won't be able to home him easily, and I also don't think it's fair to send him back to Romania to live in those grubby kennels. It would be much safer and better all round if you were to have him PTS in a humane way (it's really not a nasty thing to do, it's very peaceful and you can be with him), and then maybe, once you've recovered, get a rescue dog who has been properly assessed where you have rescue back up.


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

AnnieD said:


> He was found starving on the streets in November .
> No history known at all.
> As for warning signs he is giving none of the normal ones so to us it's unpredictable.
> He didn't even look slightly unhappy
> ...





Blitz said:


> He sounds a lovely dog most of the time but not sure how you can even consider keeping him. Why did you keep him after the first day when he bit a 16 year old so badly he needed stitches. What happens if he inflicts another injury like that. You are very lucky that no one has reported you so far but if he really injures someone you could go to prison. Have the poor dog pts sad as it is would be to have to do so.


He had just travelled for 48 hours by road and that is why I didn't get rid of him straight away as he should also have been left alone instead of my daughter and friend snuggling up on the sofa with him.
This is a dog that's been with other dogs and only reacted like he would in the canine world so yes I did give him the benefit of the doubt


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

O2.0 said:


> May I ask how you taught things like sit and leave it?
> How did you get rid of the food aggression?


 He does everything by praise and reward for me.
I've not had to use harsh words or aggression ,he's a v clever chap.
As for the food aggression ,I started to make him wait outside the room whilst I made it,without the door closed,just by saying bk.
Even that only took a few attempts for him to click.
Then he has to sit and wait for me to say it's ok for him to eat.i also put his bowl between my feet the first few times.
I have done a lot of research into positive training and I'm not at all worried by his behaviour with me!
He has a lot of work to do as he's still very green.
He wants to play and was nipping a lot but I used the yelp thing and it worked like a treat !
I also removed him from the room for a few minutes everytime he was going stupid


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

Nonnie said:


> You've only had him a month?
> 
> I cant see how you can really know anything about him in such a short space of time. You have certainly put him in a lot on different situations before he has had the chance to really settle in and find his feet, and im not surprised he is reacting the way he is. He must be completely overwhelmed.
> 
> ...


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

I'm not new to owning dogs at all and the situations he was put in were not intended as sometimes life takes over!
The fact he is so happy to see children abd is not at all phased by them is how I know abd what i meant 
I'm not stupid,children are not allowed into his Space,they are not allowed to go near his food or toys.He is a dog abx they need to respect that .
The first thing he did ,I decided was it his fault in a way,which I now seem to be getting told is stupid but he had travelled a long way abd he shouldn't have been cuddling up to people but because he's so overly friendly my daughter must have just let her guard down .
As for the man on the walk,I put that down to him not feeling comfortable!Again o feel it 
The third thing was a complete relaxed environment with an adult present 
The child was not playing touching or screaming or shouting anywhere near my dog.I wasn't in the room (again) as my 23 year old daughter was 
I'm not asking for judgement ,I'm well aware of how to treat him but obviously sometimes things happen !


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

Sarah H said:


> Seems like you have a street dog that's been chucked into a house in close proximity with loads of different people, taken into lots of different situations just cannot cope.
> I think you've done way too much with this dog way too fast, and you've found out he's stressed via some VERY serious bites.
> It's not fair to pass him to another rescue who won't be able to home him easily, and I also don't think it's fair to send him back to Romania to live in those grubby kennels. It would be much safer and better all round if you were to have him PTS in a humane way (it's really not a nasty thing to do, it's very peaceful and you can be with him), and then maybe, once you've recovered, get a rescue dog who has been properly assessed where you have rescue back up.


I don't actually feel that he should be pts this is my dilemma 
He was going bk to his rescuers ,not grubby kennels but as one of her long term dogs.
Not in kennels etc.
He will be kept with other dogs where he is happy.
These situations took over,I didn't expect my daughter and grandson to be staying but due to a very awful incident ,they arrived on my doorstep.
I've not blamed this dog in the slightest,I've reached out because I actually do feel to blame anc for that reason I want to do what's best for him and wanted to sort of her the feeling if people felt with the correct professional help I may be able to resolve this!
It's extremely hard because I was not present at the time my daughters friend or my grandson were bitten.
I was literally in the next room ,so I did not see anything.
Maybe he felt unhappy as I wasn't there ‍♀Who knows but instead of hating the dog I'm not blaming him as he isn't a human and reacts completely differently


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## SusieRainbow (Jan 21, 2013)

AnnieD said:


> I'm not new to owning dogs at all and the situations he was put in were not intended as sometimes life takes over!
> The fact he is so happy to see children abd is not at all phased by them is how I know abd what i meant
> I'm not stupid,children are not allowed into his Space,they are not allowed to go near his food or toys.He is a dog abx they need to respect that .
> The first thing he did ,I decided was it his fault in a way,which I now seem to be getting told is stupid but he had travelled a long way abd he shouldn't have been cuddling up to people but because he's so overly friendly my daughter must have just let her guard down .
> ...


The trouble is, each time a dog bites it's threshold becomes lower. I would say that having now bitten 3 times another bite is pretty certain and the severity is likely to escalate.
I also agree that euthanasia ,sad as it is, is preferable to to him spending years in rescue, not being rehomable.
It's a hideous situation for you, heartbreaking, and I'm truly sorry you've had advice and opinions you don't want to hear.


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## AnnieD (Mar 18, 2020)

SusieRainbow said:


> The trouble is, each time a dog bites it's threshold becomes lower. I would say that having now bitten 3 times another bite is pretty certain and the severity is likely to escalate.
> I also agree that euthanasia ,sad as it is, is preferable to to him spending years in rescue, not being rehomable.
> It's a hideous situation for you, heartbreaking, and I'm truly sorry you've had advice and opinions you don't want to hear.


Thankyou ,That's what I'm trying to get my head around atm as I don't want to give up on him,I don't want to send him somewhere he may be unhappy.
although the vets do feel it's best he is pts I'm still really struggling to having him pts and I'm clutching at straws trying to find a solution


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## O2.0 (May 23, 2018)

No one here is blaming the dog either. Euthanasia is not a 'punishment' for the dog. It's a humane option for a dog who's troubled enough to bite and cause damage. 

It's about being realistic. What can you realistically do to prevent another bite? Can you be sure to always isolate the dog away from children and visitors? Can you hire professional help and learn his subtle signals well enough to completely avoid another bite? You cannot keep him if you can't with assurance say you can prevent him hurting someone again. 

And if you don't keep him, what are his options realistically? A life of isolation in a 'sanctuary' is IMO no life, and is it fair for him to take up room where other dogs might be helped? 

We took on a great dane who had bitten. He did bite me, my mistake. When we took him it was with the understanding that he may just get a few good meals, a comfortable bed and a humane death. IOW we were prepared to euthanize before we even got him. 
We did not PTS because:
He had excellent bite inhibition (when he bit me he left a mark but did not break skin).
He gave clear warnings that we could easily notice. Stiffening and stillness.
He responded quickly and reliably to behavior modification.
His temperament was essentially sound. Not easily startled, not shy or timid, excellent dog communication skills. He just had some learned behaviors he had to unlearn.

Had any of the above been different, we would have PTS. Without the above I can't rightly say we could have prevented him hurting anyone. And I could not in good conscience keep a dog who might hurt someone. 

Can you make a list of ways you're going to prevent him from biting again? If the list is not airtight, I think you have your answer.


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## Hammystar (Jun 19, 2019)

I don't usually post in the dog forum but in my limited experience Romanian rescue dogs are a completely unknown entity who can change completely to how they were described by the rescuers. My ex partner had two from two different rescues. The first we had to have PTS. He was so loving one on one but completely unpredictable when it came to other dogs and children. Despite training he got worse not better and neither my partner nor the dog were living a happy life. That particular rescue we later discovered had a bad reputation and although we should have given him back, he had already gone through so many home and been passed on to us on a lie that it was kinder, albeit heartbreaking, to have him PTS.

The second dog she still has. We were told she was great with other dogs. Well, she may have been in the kennels but once she'd had time to settle in she became incredibly reactive and possessive of my ex. Walking her was a nightmare when she came to me but my ex still trains her and as she lives on a farm she is able to excercise her without other dogs there. She isn't aggressive or reactive to humans so we could live with that.

Sometimes the hardest thing is the kindest.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I think this dog has been let down very badly by everybody involved in the rescue process. This is a big issue with dogs taken from the streets with unknown history and placed into a home environment. It sounds like his situations have changed dramatically in a short space of time, from living on the streets, then plucked from that environment and placed in a shelter and then the next thing he knows he's living in what appears to be a busy household with lots of humans he doesnt know.

Dogs often act over the top friendly and a little bit silly when they are feeling unsure, I had to learn this with one of my own dogs. If a stranger attempted to interact with him, he would jump around, act a bit giddy and give the impression he was acting that way out of excitement, but then bam! From seemingly out of nowhere he would snap at the person. But it wasnt out of nowhere, the signs were there, they were just being misinterpreted.

When my sisters kids used to visit, Jed genuinely loved seeing them but I was under no illusion that if they overstepped the mark with his personal space, such as giving him a hug or whatever, that they would've gotten their faces bitten.

I think that unless you can give the dog the space he needs to settle and learn to live in the home and trust it's occupants, and keep him safe from situations where he feels he needs to bite (strangers saying hello etc) then the best option is PTS.


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## Sarah H (Jan 18, 2014)

Leanne77 said:


> Dogs often act over the top friendly and a little bit silly when they are feeling unsure, I had to learn this with one of my own dogs. If a stranger attempted to interact with him, he would jump around, act a bit giddy and give the impression he was acting that way out of excitement, but then bam! From seemingly out of nowhere he would snap at the person. But it wasnt out of nowhere, the signs were there, they were just being misinterpreted.


Ah yes one of the four F's. You've got fight and flight which everyone knows, you've then got freeze, and then the most dangerous when it comes to dogs (in my opinion from a behaviour point of view) - flirt. Lots of people misinterpret their silly wiggly behaviour as being super friendly, when in fact it's just another coping mechanism. But it's such a hard one to spot unless you know what you are looking for. 
Not always of course, lots of dogs do go silly and wiggly when they are excited, and that's why it's the most difficult one to spot!


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## JoanneF (Feb 1, 2016)

Sarah H said:


> Ah yes one of the four F's. You've got fight and flight which everyone knows, you've then got freeze, and then the most dangerous when it comes to dogs (in my opinion from a behaviour point of view) - flirt. Lots of people misinterpret their silly wiggly behaviour as being super friendly, when in fact it's just another coping mechanism. But it's such a hard one to spot unless you know what you are looking for.
> Not always of course, lots of dogs do go silly and wiggly when they are excited, and that's why it's the most difficult one to spot!


Thanks @Sarah H - I didn't know that one. I see exactly what you are saying though.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Sarah H said:


> Ah yes one of the four F's. You've got fight and flight which everyone knows, you've then got freeze, and then the most dangerous when it comes to dogs (in my opinion from a behaviour point of view) - flirt. Lots of people misinterpret their silly wiggly behaviour as being super friendly, when in fact it's just another coping mechanism. But it's such a hard one to spot unless you know what you are looking for.
> Not always of course, lots of dogs do go silly and wiggly when they are excited, and that's why it's the most difficult one to spot!


I didnt know the four F's so I've learned something there. It took me many years to realise what was happening with Jed, then I read an article about it which made sense of it all.


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