# 29 Hours Old.



## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi, basically i took a neighbourhood stray in cos she was heavily pregnant and thin. After 4 days she gave birth to a litter of 7! We're feeding her on kitten biscuits and Cat meat - should this be kitten meat too? Do i need to provide anything else since its such a large litter? Ive read something about calcium too. This is the first litter ive raised, ive never seen an animal so young! Soooo cute! Anyway, any advice is welcome. 

They are currently in a airing cupboard with the boiler (her choice of birth place) in a 2 foot x 1.5 foot basket with a brand new towel on the base, then a brand new fleece blanket with another brand new towel on top of that. She has access to food, water and litter tray. Anything else i need to do?

Chris.


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## luisa (Jul 14, 2010)

Limits said:


> Hi, basically i took a neighbourhood stray in cos she was heavily pregnant and thin. After 4 days she gave birth to a litter of 7! We're feeding her on kitten biscuits and Cat meat - should this be kitten meat too? Do i need to provide anything else since its such a large litter? Ive read something about calcium too. This is the first litter ive raised, ive never seen an animal so young! Soooo cute! Anyway, any advice is welcome.
> 
> They are currently in a airing cupboard with the boiler (her choice of birth place) in a 2 foot x 1.5 foot basket with a brand new towel on the base, then a brand new fleece blanket with another brand new towel on top of that. She has access to food, water and litter tray. Anything else i need to do?
> 
> Chris.


lactating cats can eat up to 4 times the amount of a normal cat please ensure she has a high meat content food ( if you cant order online try highlife 65% meat pate or the toplife tetra packs that are in asda ) its worth looking at the health and nutrition threads as hobbs has creatd a brilliant thread detailing diff cat foods availiable

you need to also get her kitten milk (toplife kitten milk 42-48p in most supermarkets is vet formulated)

I wouldnt stress her out too much but you also need her and the kittens to get checked at the vets asap


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

It sounds to me as if you're doing fine. There is a danger of calcium deficiency with a litter this size, but it isn't likely to hapen yet. Basically if she has a seizure you need to get to the vet as a matter of urgency and tell them she is feeding seven kittens.

Liz


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

I dont have any experience of rearing kittens but I will give you what advice I can.Firstly food for mum she will need good quality food and more or less as much as she wants and plenty water available,she is feeding herself and producing milk for her babies.You will need to change any blankets /towels used as bedding at least once a day more if you can.It will become soiled very quickly.If mum is comfortable with you handling her kittens you should weigh them regularly to ensure they are gaining weight.Keep them warm and in a quiet place with out to much disturbance.With such a large litter it may be that they will need to have supplementary feeding,that is why you need to weigh them at least once a day.Some one with more experience will be along soon with more indepth advice Good luck and well done for taking the poor cat in,she would have been having a hard time of it right now if you hadnt.:thumbup:


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Right, ive been out and bought 36 pouches of whiskers kitten mix. She seems happy enough for us to touch her kittens. Especially when bribed by food lol. What weight gain should it be per day? 

Im sorry i dont have time to be searching the forum for the info. Im at work at the moment and being sneaky lol. 

She has a human bowl full of water refreshed multiple times a day, and will now be fed kitten meat roughly every 4 hours a day, 4 times a day. That will last 9 days. How long she need to be fed that for?


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Sorry no one has been on to help more.I have only limited knowledge I'm afraid.I will try to find you some threads to help and post them later,She will need to be fed a lot for as long as she is feeding the kittens at least prob.6weeks,she does not need kitten food good quality adult food is fine,there is very little if any difference between kitten/adult food.As for weight I dont know how much the kittens need to put on each day but as a start get a book and note the weight for each kitten.I suggest you weigh them same time each day,once in the morning and again at night.noting the weight of each kitten every time in your book that way you will see how well they are gaining.

Best link I can find is www.peteducation.com/category.cfm?c=1+1388


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

OK, firstly please don't change her food so quickly. In fact I would stick to feeding her the food you were before assuming it is the food your neighbour was feeding her.

I'd wait a couple of weeks now before weaning her very slowly onto better quality stuff (higher meat content). Doing it any sooner will risk her getting an upset tummy, which added to the stress of giving birth so soon after being re homed ... it wouldn't be very nice for her.

Also just to add to the feeding issue ... you don't _need_ to feed her kitten food. There is so little difference between the two, it's just not worth doing. I learnt this when my girl was pregnant. She took a dislike to the change and it took a few days to get her eating properly again. Just makes sure what ever you fed her there is an endless supply. Don't stick to schedules for lactating queens. Best advice I can give there is to always ensure she never has and empty dish for more than 30 minutes. You'll be surprised how much she will eat, but with 7 kittens it's no surprise bless her.

Sounds like you have given her a lovely cosy 'nest'. But please be sure to take all the birthing blankets and towels out and replace with fresh clean ones (I boil wash mine to make absolutely sure). Some say leave the bedding alone for a while, but to be honest it is just a breeding ground for germs, especially in hot weather and even warmer airing cupboards! Doesn't take long for flies to strike.

Try and weigh the kittens once a day, roughly at the same time of day. You're looking for a weight gain of 10grams plus a day (ideally 15gm +). Though I suspect you might struggle with that with a litter of 7. If the weights slip below 10grams a day and do so for more than a couple of days ... or even worse they lose weight, then veterinary advice should be sought. It could be an indication of illness, but could also just be that you have a couple of little titty bullies on your hands who push the others off the nipples. I had this problem, but it was easily rectified by moving the greedy ones to the front nipples and the weaker ones to the back ever time I saw them in prime position.

Oh, and pics please


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

basically Limits your looking for the kittens to double their birth weight (roughly) in their first week. Weigh them today and say they're +- 95grams you;d be looking for around + - 190grams by this time next week. Do what Buffie says about daily weighing and noting of the weight... that is your golden rule. Kittens should gain alteast 10 grams a day, preferably 15g, but if you get a day with 40grams weight gain... throw a party 

Weightloss in kittens is rather more difficult for me to go down on record with... a smallish weightloss like 10grams in a day does not have to be drastic... but it can be the start of something. So don't panic with small weight losses one day, but do be very vigilant. Big weight loss, or two days in a row weightloss is cause for concern. Don't ignore it. 

Give the mother cat as much food as she can eat. Leave dry food down all the time so she can nibble on in between her wet food portions. If you can spare a sliver of chicken (steak, roast, fish, whatever) from your own plate.... she'll appreciate it. if you could buy any qullaity food for her, whether its a high protein cat food or some cheap cuts of chicken or chicken hearts or that cheap white fish you get in the freezer compartments in the supermarket, all the better. No matter how much you feed this queen she will look like a rake in 4 weeks time. The more you can get inside her now (and the higher the quality that food is) the better. 

One thing concerns me... she is a street cat (basic condition is always generally fairly poor to very poor) and she has 7 kittens. I think you may need to prepare yourself for top up bottle feeding of the kittens... but I would rather you ran that past a vet first. I don't mean you will have to be up every two hours of the night to feed them.... I just *think* they may not get enough from their mum because her condition is not optimal and they are so many kittens. I would be looking at top up bottle feeding every couple of hours from early morning to late evening. And you don't need to top up every kitten every time. Say at 7am you gave number 1, 2 and 3 a top up bottle feed... at 9 or 10am you could top up bottle feed numbers 4, 5 and 6. At noon you could top up number 7, 1 and 2. 

if you feel one particular kitten is not thriving you have 2 choices
a) try and get a few away from mom so that one wee weak one can get at the milk undisturbed, or
b) try and top this one up with the bottle as much as possible..

but dont forget, especially these very first days... mum's milk is gold. 

when you take a feeding kitten away from the mum's nipple to bottle-feed it, try and put it back on the same nipple when you go to pick up the next one... otherwise chaos can ensue when number 4 is drinking from number 5's nipple. lol.

Ensure wherever you keep them that it's draught free. And plenty of privacy (quietness) for mum. 

Any specific questions... ask... tho I am more at home with orphanned kittens than ones with mothers... lol.. but plenty of breeders on here who will help you.

RPFLOL... Aurelia... one of us could just have skipped this post, lol.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Thanks Aurelia for posting I was getting out of my depth but didnt want to o.p. to feel as though she was on her own.Phew

experts are like buses ,none for ages then two come along together


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

:lol: Tje. Though I'm always glad when you post and it basically matches up. You've many more years experience than me. It's good to realise just how much I have learnt! A lot of it is thanks to you and the other experienced ladies too


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> They are currently in a airing cupboard with the boiler (her choice of birth place) in a 2 foot x 1.5 foot basket with a brand new towel on the base, then a brand new fleece blanket with another brand new towel on top of that. She has access to food, water and litter tray. Anything else i need to do?
> 
> Chris.


Sounds like a great place to keep them.... nice and private and draught free and dark and private... this next tip is not actually for the mother or kittens at all, it's to save you loads of washing... and it's not even my own idea, I stole it off of Billyboysmammy...

instead of having towel -- fleece -- then towel

go for towel then fleece.

That way the fllece acts as a wick and draws the wetness down into the towel, keeps the kittens drier, and means less washing for you. And it also means less smell too.

If you are really clever and really want less loads of washing, well see that lovely new fleece blanket you have just bought... grab the scissors and cut it into 4 pieces (fleece doesnt fray, I do it all the time). lay that ontop of the towel then every few hours you can lay a fresh fleece and towel down without adding to your wash load.

To quote Billyboysmammy properly, she uses something called prefolded nappies which are roughly the size of her kittening pen (I use thick terry towelling bathmats also the rough size of the base of my pen) then she cuts the fleece down to size and stitches it on to the prefolded nappy things. This si soooo much easier than just using folded towels and folded fleeces. But you dont really need to stich them together. Cutting them saves loads of washing machine loads.

I also agree with Aurelia about cleaning often.... I always leave a few odds and ends in the pen (teddy bear, pillow, hotwatwer bottle cover etc) and I dont wash those everytime so I always think their trusted "nest" smell stays in those... but the sour milk/wee/poo smells go in the laundry.


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Heres the pics. Just weighed them all, they weigh between 250g - 280g. most around 260g.



























































































Hope you enjoy them


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Heres the pics. Just weighed them all, they weigh between 250g - 280g. most around 260g.
> 
> Hope you enjoy them


Limits, tye're grogeous. You will not believe this.... but I had a very similar mother and litter (also 7 kittens) very similar colourings... I will need to send you the pics so you can compare, lol.

But their weights.... is that a typo??? that is verrrrrrry big for newborns,


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## peecee (Jun 28, 2010)

They are absolutely gorgeous! I adore black and white cats. How about a pic of mum?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

peecee said:


> They are absolutely gorgeous! I adore black and white cats. How about a pic of mum?


if I am not mistaken... bottom 2 pics... the slightly bigger one in those 2 pics... (LOL) ... well I think that might be mum. It's certainly not the runt of the litter


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## peecee (Jun 28, 2010)

Tje said:


> if I am not mistaken... bottom 2 pics... the slightly bigger one in those 2 pics... (LOL) ... well I think that might be mum. It's certainly not the runt of the litter


:lol: Yes, silly me! Actually my computer was just so slow downloading, I didn't see those.

Limits, she is lovely as well. I have a real soft post for black and white, Tuxedo cats!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

peecee said:


> :lol: Yes, silly me!


It's ok Peecee, as soon as the OP posts pics of the kittens privates and asks us to sex them for her, you can sit back and laugh while I get each of the 7 dreadfully wrong.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

They look fantastic Well done to fur mum and human mum:thumbup:


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## Rraa (Apr 15, 2008)

beatiful babies - congratulations and well done for saving them and mum cat.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Aww, what lovely babies and mummy 

But yeah ... those weights


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Aurelia said:


> Aww, what lovely babies and mummy
> 
> But yeah ... those weights


Oh... Sh sh shoot! I read my scales wrong. Does 125-150g sound better? I got my lb and kg wrong way round :S lol.

The mum seems to be leaving her babies more often than i'd like, is that natural? My Fiancee went in at 715 and she wasnt with them and they were cold, i went in at 745 and she was feeding them, im scared because her last litter she abandoned and that was only 2 kittens! But it was in her owners house who lives in a dump!!!

Also, what does OP mean? And im a 'He' and not a 'She', there are some animal obsessed men out there too 

Chris


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## Amy&Ted (Jul 14, 2010)

OP = Original Poster or the person who started the topic


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Oh... Sh sh shoot! I read my scales wrong. Does 125-150g sound better? I got my lb and kg wrong way round :S lol.
> 
> The mum seems to be leaving her babies more often than i'd like, is that natural? My Fiancee went in at 715 and she wasnt with them and they were cold, i went in at 745 and she was feeding them, im scared because her last litter she abandoned and that was only 2 kittens! But it was in her owners house who lives in a dump!!!
> 
> Also, what does OP mean? And im a 'He' and not a 'She', there are some animal obsessed men out there too  Chris


ooops sorry Limits... I assumed you were a woman... see, I can't sex newborn kittens and can't sex forum posters either. 

I still think the weights sounds way too heavy. In grams... kittens are usually around a 100grams... maybe slightly higher or slightly lower. Put the weights down in ounces if its easier for you, and someone can translate them into grams.

About the mother going walkabouts... you're going to get 2 very different schools of thought on this...

I'm of the opinion that a mother stays with her kittens... and if that means lock-up, then that's what I do. I lock the queen in with kittens so she can't go walkabouts. Other people find that cruel and think a queen should be allowed to wander at will. When I have mother with very young kittens I keep them in a spare bedroom, if mother is "normal" and stays with her kittens, keeps them warm and feeds them regularly, then she has the that whole room at her disposal. If she starts shirking her duties (cold or hungry kittens) or is she starts trailing kittens (putting them on the windowsill or leaving them on the floor) then I simply lock her up in a bih kittening pen with her littertray, her food and her kittens. Of course I let her out... but under supervision. And the lock-up... it's really only for the first 3 weeks.

To answer you question of "is leaving the kittens natural", yes and no. Young immature mothers tend to do it more than mature mums... all my experience is with rescue cats, and I come across it a LOT. Other people on here who breed with their own pampered pets.... they see it much less often. Kittens can and do die though when their mums are too wanderish.

I advise you to nip her wandering in te bud by removing that choice from her... you can always let her go walkabouts around the house when you are there to supervise.

best of luck.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> About the mother going walkabouts... you're going to get 2 very different schools of thought on this...


I find my girls leave their kittens a lot more in summer than in winter ie it's temperature controlled. In one particularly hot summer I had a girl who went back on the dot of every 2 hours through the day to feed and clean them and stayed with them through the night. She didn't move far, often out of the kittening box and onto cooler laminate flooring but she would come downstairs for up to an hour after the first couple of days.

I'm the 2 schools of thought in one and work each case on it's merits


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## princessa rags (Apr 30, 2010)

hi limits 125g and 150g sound better mine are 3days old and they are 144g and 159g and the little girl is slacking abit at 134g but im keeping an eye on her..but they are good weights for a litter of 7 ...my girl keeps leaving her babies to but i wouldnt worry..


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Well she is kept in my bathroom and can only move around in the bathroom as i have 2 cats myself and they are scared of everything! But the kittens are in the airing cupboard with the boiler and she kinda just sits next to the basket and not in there with them.

I'll have a reweigh tonight when i get home, it'll be about 7pm when i post it


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

havoc said:


> I find my girls leave their kittens a lot more in summer than in winter ie it's temperature controlled. In one particularly hot summer I had a girl who went back on the dot of every 2 hours through the day to feed and clean them and stayed with them through the night. She didn't move far, often out of the kittening box and onto cooler laminate flooring but she would come downstairs for up to an hour after the first couple of days.
> 
> I'm the 2 schools of thought in one and work each case on it's merits


Havoc, I am the first to admit with this my experience with strays is so different to those of my breeding friends with their own queens.

hehehee, should I get my violin out here... it sounds sooo "woe me" ! 

Most mothers with kittens I have fostered, the kittens werent even born in my home, they came to me after the birth (I have verrry little experience with pregnancy and birthing). The queen is a total stranger to me, is often terrified of me, has often just been rescued sometimes with a trap and or a net (sometimes a bit feral), spent time being processed in a busy shelter, been poked and prodded by vets, then carted off to strange home with a strange women then dumped in her foster room (only for the bad foster woman to start treating her for fleas and earmite, lol) . Its such a traumatic time for them, I count myself lucky if I can stroke them and brush them by the time the kittens are 6 weeks old. And Ive had mother cats leave kittens on windowsills, littertrays, the floor, a bookshelf, and on top of the cat tree, LOL. Then I go my friends home (BSH breeder) when she has a litter. And its soooo different.

But I do totally agree with you play it by ear. cold or hungry kittens lock up.

No cold or hungry kittens and a mum that comes back to the fold on time  cut her some slack.

I never have my mother cats outside of that one kittening bedroom... but that is because I have 2 adult cats of my own who would NOT tolerate a newbie adult :eek6:. And plus they (the mothers) are generally disease ridden and I wouldn't risk them giving my own cats earmite or ringowrm or something a lot worse.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

> hehehee, should I get my violin out here... it sounds sooo "woe me" !


I'm full of admiration so don't put yourself down. You are prepared to do this without any of the gratification I get from breeding. There's nothing like the bond you have with a queen having gone through a kittening together. I love it and it's very important to me. A litter of kittens is something my girls and I do together and I can't imagine it being any different.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Havoc

Yep, I do get jealous when I see how my breeder friend can curl up next to the birthing pen and comfort and help her queens - and just how healthy the queens look, and hoe balanced they all seem. I dont get that. But then again I dont get a lot of the hassles you guys get (no finding responsible new owners, no home checks, no vetting, no vet bills, no real decisions to make when a kitten or queen is ill  generally the shelter manager or vet make those for me, within reason, I do get _some_ say). I get 12 weeks of kitten care and then my role is over.

Poor Limits, he's getting the worst of both world's here... an "unknown quantity" female and all the hassles and costs of rearing and rehoming!

Very best of luck to him!


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Haha yeah thanks. The queen, or fat cat as we call her (cute heh), it used to be upto her when you could stroke her but since we took her in, i think she has been kind to us, shes realised that we have given her a place to give birth and rear them. She knows that we are giving her food so she doesnt have to find it and i dont think she finds us threatening to her babies. We can hold the kittens (with gloves) and she doesnt attack us or start to get violent. We can even stroke her when her babies are feeding. Im still wary of her though as she gone for me twice since we took her in but i think that was because i moved when she wanted a love against my leg lol.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> We can even stroke her when her babies are feeding. Im still wary of her though as she gone for me twice since we took her in but i think that was because i moved when she wanted a love against my leg lol.


My motto with these mothers is "no sudden movements" lol.... if the phone goes... let it ring a while and take all your time to answer it ... otherwise you end up answering with a "HIIIIIIII how AREEEEEEEE youuuuuuuuu mum, I'm fiiiiiiiiiiiiine, I just have a cat LODGED in my leg".

and personally I feel direct eye contact is best avoided.... and loads of reasurring calming words... sounds dumb, but I sing to my strays, lol.


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## Aurelia (Apr 29, 2010)

Also, don't worry about using gloves. Just make sure you wash your hands well before touching them, get just a little more personal 

Looking forward to watching your little ones grow, so keep posting, and keep showing us update pictures if you dont mind .


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Well i took what i thought they weighed and lined it up with the Kg markings, they weighed between 110g and 125g, on day they 3 some stayed roughly the same and others gained upto 25g?! Today, i'll be paying a visit to argos and getting a digital weighing scale, its got to be much easier lol. 

We keep finding little bits of blood on our bathroom floor and on the towels which means Fat Cat is bleeding a little, its like the amount my cat would do when she was on her period, is this normal? To bleed after giving birth to kittens?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Well i took what i thought they weighed and lined it up with the Kg markings, they weighed between 110g and 125g, on day they 3 some stayed roughly the same and others gained upto 25g?! Today, i'll be paying a visit to argos and getting a digital weighing scale, its got to be much easier lol.
> 
> We keep finding little bits of blood on our bathroom floor and on the towels which means Fat Cat is bleeding a little, its like the amount my cat would do when she was on her period, is this normal? To bleed after giving birth to kittens?


Limits, great news on the weights... 110-125grams sounds more like I was expecting... and some with 25gram weight gain in day... gold star to FatCat and you! A digital scale will be sooo much easier for you. Set a plastic container on the scale... then reset the scale to zero, then weigh the kittens, that way they can't wriggle off and you don't need to keep subtracting the container's weight from the total.

regards the bleeding.... I'll leave that to one of the breeder folks to answer... queens aren't my strong point


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Right, Day 4 report.

All is good, and Digital Scales are soooo easier lol.

**Gains are estimates from what i could get from old scales**

Kitten 1 weighs 140g - gain of 15g
Kitten 2 weighs 171g - gain of 21g
Kitten 3 weighs 128g - gain of 18g
Kitten 4 weighs 154g - gain of 29g
Kitten 5 weighs 154g - gain of 29g
Kitten 6 weighs 132g - gain of 22g
Kitten 7 weighs 158g - gain of 23g

When do Kittens start to be fed by us and not its mum? When do they start playing etc? When does the hectic stage start basically?

Chris.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

I find the weights very respectable for 3 day old kittens, well done.

They start eating solids at around 3½ to 4 weeks at the earliest but it can easily be a week later (although with 7 kittens I think they should have start by 4½ weeks, start encouraging them definitely at the beginning of week 4), and its a gradual process the first week or so its more licking from mums plate and then each day over a period of 3-4 weeks that increases as their milk intake decreases. They could easily still be drinking from mum way past the 10 week mark (if you allow that). 

The playful hectic stage I would say begins around 5 weeks gets really serious around week 6, and gets worse by the week, lol. 

As long as FatCat keeps doing her job as well she has been doing (and no horrible viruses or bacteria strike and mums milk is enough to actually sustain healthy growth), youve got about another 3 weeks of relative rest. The calm before the storm  .... do enjoy it!! 

And yes digital scales make life soooo much easier. Are you having any troubles identifying which kitten is which??? If so I am sure plenty of us have tips so you can i.d each kitten at a glance. 

Thanks for the update!!


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Tje said:


> I find the weights very respectable for 3 day old kittens, well done.


 Thats always good to hear 



Tje said:


> The playful hectic stage I would say begins around 5 weeks gets really serious around week 6, and gets worse by the week, lol.
> 
> As long as FatCat keeps doing her job as well she has been doing (and no horrible viruses or bacteria strike and mums milk is enough to actually sustain healthy growth), youve got about another 3 weeks of relative rest. The calm before the storm  .... do enjoy it!!


 Ok, well thats good then, the only thing we noticed is that she has some bugs on her and her kittens, but when I took her to the vets, 7 days ago now, they said she was fine and nothing was wrong?

So Week 4 is when the madness starts basically?



Tje said:


> Are you having any troubles identifying which kitten is which??? If so I am sure plenty of us have tips so you can i.d each kitten at a glance.


We'll we have a notebook with stuff on like; for example:

_Kitten Seven

'Fat Cat' face
White Left Leg -> Black On Inside

Kitten Two

All Black - Bit of White inside left ear._

Lol.



Tje said:


> Thanks for the update!!


 Don't worry about it, theres probably gonna be a daily update because im scared of mistakes and im excited about the whole process, if you can't tell im new to this part of cats lol.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Ok, well thats good then, the only thing we noticed is that she has some bugs on her and her kittens, but when I took her to the vets, 7 days ago now, they said she was fine and nothing was wrong?


:scared: what kind of bugs??? where were they??? If it's fleas or earmite... get back to the vet or it will just escalate.



Limits said:


> So Week 4 is when the madness starts basically?


It's hard to out an exact figure on it... but _from_ week 4-5... though in the beginning it's more like baby steps and falling and standing up time, by 6 7 and 8 weeks old they'll be pulling the curtains off your windows and swinging from your chandaliers 



Limits said:


> We'll we have a notebook with stuff on like; for example:
> 
> _Kitten Seven
> 
> ...


you could also use paint pens to a but a dot or circle or bloth on a foot 
_kitten 1. blotch right back leg
kitten 2. blotch left back leg
kitten 3. blotch right front leg
kitten 4. blotch left front leg _
(obviously though with 7 you'd either need 2 different coloured pens, or two different symbols to mark with, say a blotch and a stripe... or possibly kittens with extra legs  ) 
Certainly with 7 with all black/white markings... I would NEED to mark their paws, lol. I am hopeless at doing it from pics and notes. Plus sometimes the one marking you focus on, is the one that disappears. I had 4 very similar kittens, 3 males a female. But I knew the female as she had a few stray white hairs on her back. Then the damn white hairs disappeared and I had no idea which one the female was, lol.



Limits said:


> Don't worry about it, theres probably gonna be a daily update because im scared of mistakes and im excited about the whole process, if you can't tell im new to this part of cats lol.


Good to hear!!


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

If I take them to the vets and somehow fat cat gets a scent of another cat on her kittens won't she abandon them?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> If I take them to the vets and somehow fat cat gets a scent of another cat on her kittens won't she abandon them?


That's not a problem at all Limitis, just keep them all in the same cat carrier with the bedding or teddies or whatever with their scent on it. I have never had a mother reject kittens just because of a vet visit. The only thing I would advise is when you call for an appointment, lay it on kinda thick that you have a stressed new mum with 7 young kittens and ask them for an appointment at at time of day where you're not likely to be left sitting in the waiting room for ages. Take a big blanket in the car with you so you can cover the carrier (if thats needed) often they get less stressed when they are covered and can't see what's happening outside and around their cat carrier.

Can I just say... what you and the Mrs are doing for Fatcat and her kittens is soooooooo admirable!! Especially when compared to the way some moggy breeders here on this forum treat their own cats with "accidental" pregnancies. Hats off to you both!! Two vet visits in a week... what a luxury!! I wish I get you go to kick ass in some other posts in the forum. Best of luck to you all.


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## luisa (Jul 14, 2010)

well done they look beautiful 

bugs is most likely to be fleas ( little black things that run around ) 

ear mites you cant really see but they leave blood scabs and brown ear wax in their ears. ( this is what my kittens had when i rescued them ) 

Ticks are slow moving ( mostly still and fat - sometimes little if they havent fed dont try to pull them off they can break in half ) 

get them to the vets as tje said an they will be fine.

your doing a great job !! 
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Thanks guys, ive called 2 vets for their prices, they both said that i can do it myself with a spray and cotton wool. Ive said id prefer the vets to do them. So once again im stuck waiting for a phone call!

Danii says thanks for the encouragement, praise and help by the way.

Weights and Gains will be up gain between 7 and midnight lol. 

Chris.


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Day 5 weights:

Kitten 1 - 153g - Gain of 13g
Kitten 2 - 188g - Gain of 17g
Kitten 3 - 137g - Gain of 9g
Kitten 4 - 169g - Gain of 15g
Kitten 5 - 168g - Gain of 14g
Kitten 6 - 147g - Gain of 15g
Kitten 7 - 169g - Gain of 11g

Slightly worried about Kitten 3, lowest weight and least gain, im guessing the runt of the litter? And Is kitten 2 eating too much???

Got the Cattery which is helping me pay for stuff to pay for Vets to flea all 7 kittens and Fat Cat, costing them £104 though!

Chris.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Day 5 weights:
> 
> Kitten 1 - 153g - Gain of 13g
> Kitten 2 - 188g - Gain of 17g
> ...


I wouldn't worry about #3 quite yet... as long as every day there is atleast 10 grams (preferably 15grams) of gain. As for #2, nope, they can't eat too much - he/she is doing great! And 50grams between the biggest and the smallest is in no way unusual. I would say it's too early yet to say if #3 will be (stay) the runt... the biggest can turn into the smallest in the space of two days (and vice versa). I find all the weights respectable. Another gold star for FatCat.



Limits said:


> Got the Cattery which is helping me pay for stuff to pay for Vets to flea all 7 kittens and Fat Cat, costing them £104 though!


Eek... that's expensive. Mind you I don't live in the UK anymore so am out of touch with vets costs... but the stuff they use (probably Frontline) costs about 20 quid a bottle and you could do all 8 with about a fraction of bottle. But I'm also assuming for this the price the vet gave them all a check over, and that's always worth paying for. It's great that this cattery is helping you out and footed the bill for this. Is the cattery like some kind fo animal shelter?? I am happy for you you have financial help... 7 kittens and a mama cat ain't cheap!!


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Thanks for the reasurrance about the weights... again 

Yeah the Vets quoted me £40.03 for the Frontline spray bottle and a spray to take home to spray around the house. But as its the first time i've raised Kittens i'm not wanting to do it myself. I want it doing right basically. 

the Cattery is called 'Cats Action Trust' i think, i never heard of them before but I called around 10 local cat places and they said they are all full so on the last one I asked if there was any help on medication etc and he said that they would help 

Chris & Danii.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm really happy for you both that you have the financial backing of this Cat Action Trust... as you can see, vets bills can make your eyes water. 

And I think you're so right to "get it done right" (the de-fleaing) ... the dosages are really very complicated with such tiny kittens... and you don't want to risk anything that could lead FC to reject them... plus a quick health check at the vets is worth its weight in gold! 

You do realise we'll be wanting the 1 week old pics very soon


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Hehe im already one step ahead of you, there will be new photos every week 

Got vet appointment at 440 

chris and danii


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Vets went good today, they sprayed their hands and rubbed it on kittens and then did the spot on back of fat cats neck for her... However she had Ear Mites as well as fleas so i filed a complaint because i took fat cat there before she gave birth, was on 28th i think and the vet said she was perfectly healthy and nothing was wrong with her... So instead of it costing, i dunno £50, its cost nearly £150 in total for 2 vet checks... 

Had to transport kittens away from mum after vets because she was licking the flea treatment off them but all is well back at home! 

Chris and Danii.


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Day 6 Weigh in. 

Kitten 1 - 170g - gain of 17g
Kitten 2 - 210g - gain of 22g
Kitten 3 - 146g - gain of 9g
Kitten 4 - 193g - gain of 24g
Kitten 5 - 188g - gain of 20g
Kitten 6 - 161g - gain of 14g
Kitten 7 - 177g - gain of 8g

I haven't done todays weigh in yet, will do it after family meal. :thumbup:


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## gizmodaisy (Jul 26, 2010)

They are lovely! Well done!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Vets went good today, they sprayed their hands and rubbed it on kittens and then did the spot on back of fat cats neck for her... However she had Ear Mites as well as fleas so i filed a complaint because i took fat cat there before she gave birth


Limits... doh @ the 1st vet for missing the earmite. You are right to file a complaint. It's not exactly unusual in a stray, and should be one of the first things they check. Just keep a good eye on the kittens ears... chances are high because FC has them (had them) that they too will get them. Anything that looks like dark brown coffee grinds in their ears a sign they have them. Even if they're not itching, take a wee peek at their ears everynight when you weigh them. Stich in time and all that. Weights are looking good... looking forward to the pics.

btw.... you wont see the actual mite in their ears... I call it earmite poop that you see... but it isn't that either.... but it does look like loose ground coffee. Any dark brown flecks in their ears... probably earmite and better to get it seen sooner rather than later. Then again, most likely the vet explained all this and I am repeating,lol.


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Tje said:


> btw.... you wont see the actual mite in their ears... I call it earmite poop that you see... but it isn't that either.... but it does look like loose ground coffee. Any dark brown flecks in their ears... probably earmite and better to get it seen sooner rather than later. Then again, most likely the vet explained all this and I am repeating,lol.


Nope, not been told any of this at all... How do you look in 7 day old kittens ears when they that small? There's nothing to hold to move back!


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Nope, not been told any of this at all... How do you look in 7 day old kittens ears when they that small? There's nothing to hold to move back!


hmmmm yeah you're right... it is pretty tricky if not down right impossible, lol (have a similar ages orphan here right now). I am not sure this is what a vet would advise, so if you want to be really sure you're best to give them a call ... but personally I wouldn't worry too much right now... it will become apparent when they are a couple of weeks older if they do have earmite... they will shake their head all the time and appear irritated and scratch constantly at their ears... if you then see black coffee ground like substance in their ears, then they have earmite.

Have any got their eyes open yet???

Fatcat still being a star???


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Fat Cat is being fantastic, am really proud of her! 

And yeah, a couple have started to open their eyes, they are really cute  

What do you need for the litter trays for kittens when they start using it? Can you give me an example. I've heard something about Clay? How many trays would you lay out for them? Including Fat Cat?


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Oh, and when do you start feeding kittens on kitten food? Can anyone tell me the process of weaning please?


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Fat Cat is being fantastic, am really proud of her!
> 
> And yeah, a couple have started to open their eyes, they are really cute
> 
> What do you need for the litter trays for kittens when they start using it? Can you give me an example. I've heard something about Clay? How many trays would you lay out for them? Including Fat Cat?


for litter trays with small kittens you're best to use one of those wood pellet ones. Small kittens tend to eat cat litter, so it's best not to use a clay or clumping litter initially. I do use clumping litter with kittens, but I generally wait until they're 6 or 7 weeks or so (and over the eating the cat litter stage)... or when I know I am home to watch them. It can be any old wood pellet based cat litter, doesn't need to be an expenisve one like World's Best. Or any natural litter tray filler can be used... like pressed paper.

How many trays depends entirely on the amount of space available to them. If you were going to keep the mum and kittens (for example) in one spare bedroom, then I would say 1 big tray for mum and 2/3 smaller ones for the kittens...

if they're going to have the run of the house... then it's another matter entirely.

personally... even with orphanned kittens which I hand raise... until they are fairly okay using their litter tray I restrict the space available to them. They have either the living room (with 2 or 3 small trays) or my foster kitten room with 2 or 3 small trays available to them.

And only when they "can be trusted" do I allow them more space.

I personally feel it's a bad idea to give 7 kittens a mum too much space... coem week 4 I would be restricting them to a spare bedroom (if you have one) or any one room ... then I would reevaluate at 6 weeks if they're all pretty much toilet trained.

You don't need special litter trays for the kittens... just make sure it's something with low sides (or a low entry/exit point). I use tupperware freezer containers till they are about 5-6 weeks old, then I switch to a small low litter tray proper. However,,,, a tupperware container filled with wood pellets is VERY light and they can tip it over... I used to have ceramic ovenware dishes to use as trainer litter trays and they were perfect as they were heavier and they kittens couldn't knock them over.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Oh, and when do you start feeding kittens on kitten food? Can anyone tell me the process of weaning please?


Firstly, you don't need to buy special wet food for kittens... you can if you wish, but wet "kitten food" is a bit of a marketing gimmic... whatever wet food the mum is getting, will be fine for the kittens too.

You really don't need to do anything as such... around week 4-5 (maybe sligtly earlier or slightly later) the kittens will start to take an interest in mums food... when you see this happening... then put down another couple of portions for the kittens. A flat tea plate or saucer is preferable to a bowl. For the fist few days they will lick at it more than actually eat it... but that's fine. Slowly they will get the hang of it... you can help them along (and with 7 kittens I recommend you do, because mum will be getting sucked dry by so many of them) ... but basically all you can do is put a blob of wet food on your fingers and encourage them to lick it off. Or smear a little bit on their paws and see if they will lick it off. Very small kittens can't eat much at all, so the secret is "little and often". An ddon't forget the whole weaning thing is a very gradual process... in the first days of weaning they will still be getting 95% of what they need from FatCat... each day their solid food intake will go up and their mother-milk intake will go down. But in optimal situations this will take a good 4-6 weeks.

Just keep feeding FatCat on demand. The more she can eat the better.

regards dry food for kittens... I use Royal Canin Baby for the first few weeks and then gradually introduce Royal Canin Kitten (the "baby" are tiny little pellets of dry food... and the "kitten" are slightly bigger).

You can also give the kittens some kitten milk on a saucer... or you can mix some through their wet food so it is mushier for them. Especially in the first week or two of weaning, you're looking for a thick soupy consistency, more than actual meaty or chunky consistency. If you're feeding them the same as mum (or even something like whiskas wet pouches for kittens) it might be a good idea to mush the stuff for the kittens up even more than it is already, as very small kittens often try to lick just the sauce of the whiskas-type kitten foods and leave the actual meat chunks lying.


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Well as promised, here are our kittens on their 9th day.

Kitten 7









Kitten 6









Kitten 5









Kitten 4









Kitten 3









Kitten 2









Kitten 1









And finally a cute picture of me and Kitten 4 









Hope they do for your fix of cute kittens for the week  More again next monday 

Chris and Danii.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Hope they are all doing as well as they look,its so good to be able to watch these little guys as they grow ,thanks for the update:thumbup:


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## Spook (Aug 10, 2010)

What a wonderful job you're doing, newbie on the forum and just read through your thread. I can't wait for more updates. :thumbup:


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Well we did have a bot of a scare a few days back, kitten 7 lost 10g but has gone up again after that so wasnt toooooo bad


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

gorgeous kittens!! Well done the pair of you... and FatCat!!


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Well weve decided to move the kittens out of the airing cupboard (which stands 2 foot off the floor) onto the floor as they had started to climb up the edges of their baskets and would obviously fall out of the cupboard if the ventured any further.

Also, we've found that one of the kittens has a tickle spot, when you hit the spot it rolls onto its back and kicks it back leg out uncontrollably, then when you stop it looks at you and then lifts its leg back up for you to carry on lol. So cute!


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## peecee (Jun 28, 2010)

Lovely to hear everything is going well for your new cat family. It has been really lovely following this thread.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

peecee said:


> Lovely to hear everything is going well for your new cat family. It has been really lovely following this thread.


I totally agree with that.... so many owners hardly look after their own nursing queens who "accidentaly" got pregnant (for the third time, lol). It's so refreshing and heartwarming to read of two good samaratins taking in a pregnant stray, not to mention her 7 kittens!!


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Hey Guys, thought i'd let you all know the kittens are all fine, keeping us busy hence the lack of messages 

How long should we keep weighing the kittens for? we're doing it every day at the moment.

Some photos below. from last week, will post this weeks soon.



























































































 hope you like, they've changed so much already just from last week, the photos above were taken when they were 16 days old.

Chris & Danii


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## gizmodaisy (Jul 26, 2010)

Wow they look great! x


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Well done everyone they look great:thumbup:


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Hey Guys, thought i'd let you all know the kittens are all fine, keeping us busy hence the lack of messages
> 
> How long should we keep weighing the kittens for? we're doing it every day at the moment.
> 
> ...


Heyyyyyy, I must have missed your post.... so glad I saw it now. They are looking lovely, and Mrs Fatcat is looking every bit the proud and capable mum. Well done to all 3 of you.

Regards the weighing (do bear in mind I am "Miss Weigh Your Kittens Daily" and am quite a strong advocate of it, lol, and that's putting it mildly) well i would say continue once a day weighing until they are well and truly eating a lot of solids, that will probably be around week 6 or 7. If at that time they are all gaining well and eating well, I suppose you could cut back the weighing... BUT.... I really recommend you continue it until they leave you. I have a fair old amount of experience with rescue kittens like FC's, and I am the first to admit that the scales are 9 times out 10 my early warning system, they alert me hours in advance when things aren't as they should be. If those kittens should get a virus or bacterial infection, the scales will notice that before you do. When they start acting like stroppy buggers on the scales (which will start happening pretty soon) ... just pop them in a big baking bowl or small bucket or a shoe box to weigh them.

All the best!!!!!!!!!! Cuddles to Fatcat!!


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## pets&me (Aug 27, 2010)

HI Limits, all the kittens and mum are looking great! I been following the thread, and got to say mum is very lucky to have you both. 

With Regards to the vets fees ...do you have any Pdsa vet hospitals near you ?
I say this becuase even if you are working and there is someone in your family who is on housing benefit they can register there them and attend the local pdsa centre and that way you can keep vet costs to a minimum and ensure they are gettin all the vet visits they need, all you have to do is give a small donation for each visit. I know a lot of people dont like the pdsa but I have found them great over the years. 

My Cat I have rescued is at the point of being overdue with her litter and I just hope when the time comes I can do everything for my girl and her babys, just as you have with this little princess.

Regards steve & toots


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

awwwwwww bless they are soooooooooooooooo cute.xxx:thumbup:


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Right then, i've got a bit of a problem... As you all know Fat Cat is a stray and because of this lays our problem... Whenever we put meat down for her to eat she wolfs it down like its her last supper, not letting her litter have any, they sit next to her waiting to get in and they get nothing, we've even heard her hiss/growl at them. How can we get her to let her kittens eat her food? I've thought about numerous pots but i think she'll go through them all?

Good news though, they drink, they use the litter tray (mums and a smaller one), they've tried her biscuits but we took them
away from the kittens as their too hard for them. They run about and they play. And best of all they run to us when we go in. 

We're socialising them with strangers and our dog but both of my cats hiss and growl and spit, how do you suggest i socialise them with my cats?

Chris and Danii


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Right then, i've got a bit of a problem... As you all know Fat Cat is a stray and because of this lays our problem... Whenever we put meat down for her to eat she wolfs it down like its her last supper, not letting her litter have any, they sit next to her waiting to get in and they get nothing, we've even heard her hiss/growl at them. How can we get her to let her kittens eat her food? I've thought about numerous pots but i think she'll go through them all?
> 
> Good news though, they drink, they use the litter tray (mums and a smaller one), they've tried her biscuits but we took them
> away from the kittens as their too hard for them. They run about and they play. And best of all they run to us when we go in.
> ...


can you seperate the mum and kittens at dinner time??? (well semi-seperate) Like put mum in a travel carrier with her bowl of food... the kittens loose in the room with their plates of food... that way they can see eachother, but greedy Mrs Fatcat can't munch away the kittens portions. I have a big kitten pen and I use that... but just improvise some system where they can all see eachother, but mum is physically barred from stealing from the kittens. It's no hardship leaving fat cat in a cat carrier for 15 minutes or so every time you feed the wee ones. Sometimes I feed the wee ones in my bathroom, just because it's easier to limit the damage and easier to clean up. providing mum doesn't flip you could try this too. Though don't take all the kittens out at once, and do make sure FatCat always get fed first. She'll hopefully be so engrossed in her plate of chuck she doesn't notice anything else.

The kittens should be fine with the dry food... if you are worried it's too hard for them, either give them (the dry kibble) a soak in warm water or in some kitten-milk, that should soften them down. Or you can buy very small dry biscuits escpecially for kittens. Royal Canin baby are tiny sized dry food... and Royal Canin Kitten are slightly bigger but not as big as adult food.

Socializing with your own other cats... chances are it simply won't work. My own 2 cats are used to waifs and strays, they have grown up with them coming and going... chances are you cats won't accept that, and chances are that FatCat will go into defensive mummy-mode if you pursue it too much. Don't push it.... if you think you can sneak one of the wee ones out of the kitten room (without alarming FatCat) then you can try that, as long as the kitten doesn't get stressed away from the litter. But it's asking a lot of your cats to actually be nice to these "interlopers". So don't push it... if they all get on ... fine... if they can't stand the sight of each other... also fine.

Great to know they're alll doing so well...


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Yeah i was thinking about using the travel case to put her in. And ok, will Fat Cat mind eating soggy biscuits? 

Also, i've tried taking a kitten out to my cats with the same result lol.  Fat Cat isnt bothered by other animals, shes good like that .


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Hey, sorry i didn't realise there were replies on page 7 lol, I think there's a PDSA in Bradford, about 10 miles away from me, guess I can try that approach lol. And that's a good a point about the weighing scales too, being the early warning system 

And thank you guys for helping me through this, it's nice to see you all so very interested too 

Chris & Danii.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Limits said:


> Yeah i was thinking about using the travel case to put her in. And ok, will Fat Cat mind eating soggy biscuits?
> 
> Also, i've tried taking a kitten out to my cats with the same result lol.  Fat Cat isnt bothered by other animals, shes good like that .


Put down two bowls of biscuits... nice and dry for FatCat and soaked and soggy for the wee ones. IF FatCat should steal the wee ones soggy biccies... try cutting a hole in a strong carboard box, a hole big enough for the kittens, too small for Fat Cat, and put the soaked soggy biccies in that box (you could also try doing this with their wet food too). Don't be surpised tho if the kittens still try to eat the adult (non-soggy) dry food. This ALWAYS happens to me... my own massive cats eat the tiny kitten biscuits and the tiny kittens love the big girls food. As long as they are all gaining weight... just relax and leave them to it. I haven't killed a kitten with adult food yet 

What you could try doing with your own cats is... take some of the dirty bedding from FatCat and the kittens... and transfer the scents on that dirty bedding to the posts around the doors, table legs, chair legs, sides of cuboards etc, and leave a "Fat Cat & Kittens" scented blanket lying around for your own cats to sniff on. No gaurantee it will work, but it's a start. Give something like a teddy to FC and the kittens for a day or two, then give it to your cats for a day or two. But what you are experiencing is in no way unusual... it is the norm. Resident cats generally don't like interloper mother and kittens inching into their "hoods".


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## Limits (Aug 2, 2010)

Right, yesturday we put 2 bowls of meat down and sat inbetween them. We put fatcat on one side and all the kittens on the other. 3 kittens ate the meat, another 2 watched and the other 2 just walked away lol. But as soon as we got up to leave fat cat was straight into their food. Luckily they had nearly finished it 

Chris & Danii.


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## Tje (Jan 16, 2010)

Hi Limits, was just wondering how FatCat and the seven dwarves are getting on?


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