# Please help!!!!!!!!



## Iona Archer (Mar 19, 2013)

HELP!!!! I have let my 9 month old cat that had not been neutered out for the night, she came back with another cat that seemed quite attracted of her (he followed her everywhere). It has been about 1 month after this happened and she has become alot fatter and her stomach is quite hard. I can not tell if her nipples have changed in size or hardness, but she is more relaxed as she normally plays alot and chases my other cat but now she will just lay there. She hasn't gone off eating but she has became more fussy. Is she pregnant or just getting older???????????


Please help, than you very much!


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## nicolaa123 (Mar 30, 2012)

You may be better to post this in the breeding section..you will get a lot of advise, some you may not like, but it will all be in the interest of your cat.

Can I ask why you let her out though?

Have you had any advice from your vet as yet as to whether she could be, or whether you can get her spayed..?


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Sounds like a very pregnant cat to me.
How old is she?

I think it would be best to take her to the vet as soon as possible and discuss the options. If she is not pregnant, there is something wrong, as it isn't natural for a cat to change so much all of a sudden. And if the swollen belly isn't kittens, it is something else, and definitely should not be there.

She can still be neutered, even if pregnant, and if she is very young, it will probably be the best option, as giving birth can be quite risky for a cat that is hardly more than a kitten herself, and she may not be mature enough to raise the kittens, either.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

There are several very knowledgeable breeders on this forum who can give you lots of advice.

If she is pregnant and you want to let her have the kittens you had better start saving up for food and vet cost and ask around for good homes for them.

You may also want to have a look at these threads:

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/140588-reasons-spay-neuters-your-pets.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/9523-what-you-need-your-cat-birthing-box.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/9991-breeder.html

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-breeding/215985-cost-breeding.html


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## Iona Archer (Mar 19, 2013)

Thank you i will take her to the vets ASSP!!! 
nicolaa123: We had the door open and she went out. She didn't come back till the afternoon the day after.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

How old is she?
Did she show any signs of being in heat?


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## messyhearts (Feb 6, 2009)

Have a look at her nipples. Are they very pale almost white or are they fairly pink?


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

It sounds like she's 4 weeks pregnant. Your vet may still spay her but you need to ring up ASAP and ask.

At 10 months of age she is not mentally or physically prepared to give birth and become a mother. It's ridiculously unfair on her to put her through this, so you need to do the right thing for your cat.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Anytime a cat older than 4 months who hasn't been spayed has been allowed outside it's almost a guarantee that she's pregnant.

At 4 weeks along she wouldn't be showing much, but her nipples should be easily felt. If you run your hands under her belly you can usually feel them sticking out a bit.



Jiskefet said:


> She can still be neutered, even if pregnant, and if she is very young, it will probably be the best option, as giving birth can be quite risky for a cat that is hardly more than a kitten herself, and she may not be mature enough to raise the kittens, either.


This is definitely an option to look into, your girl is very young to be having kittens and really should have been spayed months ago. She may be able to be spayed now and needn't have this litter

If she's too far along and must have the kittens do read the links posted and ask all the question you can, and be prepared with some funds in case of any issues that require a vet visit such as a c-section.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm in with the spay if possible camp. If you find the idea of spay-abort horrid, so do I. However there are many, many cats and kittens languishing in shelters without a home, some of which get euthanased because there is no longer room at the inn for them. I find that even more horrible.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

You have come to the right place and will get great assistance and advice from very knowledgeable folks on what to do from here forward...

Bear in mind that it's the cat that everyone is first and foremost concerned with. Emotions can and do run high with 'accidental' pregnancies because real lives are involved.

That said I wish you the best of luck and welcome you to the forums. Here you will find many experienced people who can help you get this sorted and do the best thing for your cat.


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## Iona Archer (Mar 19, 2013)

messyhearts said:


> Have a look at her nipples. Are they very pale almost white or are they fairly pink?


I shall have a look. Thank you very much.


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## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

If you've let an entire female cat outside the chances are she's pregnant, now all the sensible people on here will advise you to spay her, afterall she's too young and there's already enough moggies around.

Call me cynical but this is how these threads usually go....the OP will say he/she is looking into the possibility of spaying, will see what the vet says ect...then..


The OP will decide he/she doesn't believe in abortion and wants to let the litter proceed. 
The OP's vet "apparently" disagree's with spaying the pregnant, underage cat.
Or the OP outright decides to proceed with the litter without actually looking into spaying at all.
Or the OP could be in the very tiny % that actually takes the cats wefare into consideration and decides to spay....I mean really tiny %.

Either way there's a 95% chance this litter is going to happen regardless of what any of us say on here, like the rest of the threads. *sigh* we see so many of these threads and how many actually spay? very few.

Good luck OP with your kittens, please spay your girl as soon as you can.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

shetlandlover said:


> <snip>
> *sigh* we see so many of these threads and how many actually spay? very few.
> 
> Good luck OP with your kittens, please spay your girl as soon as you can.


Sadly so, so true. At least, OP, you now know how easily a girl can get pregnant, and many cats come back into call while still nursing tiny kittens so you need to keep her in until your vets will spay her, should you let her have the kittens.

If you let her have them, prepare for needing mountains of food and litter - the last litter I fostered cost me over £200, and that was buying litter in bulk on the Internet and taking advantage of offers at the supermarket for cat food.


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

shetlandlover said:


> If you've let an entire female cat outside the chances are she's pregnant, now all the sensible people on here will advise you to spay her, afterall she's too young and there's already enough moggies around.
> 
> Call me cynical but this is how these threads usually go....the OP will say he/she is looking into the possibility of spaying, will see what the vet says ect...then..
> 
> ...


You have forgotten one

5) there are lots of catless members of their family who suddenly have a burning desire to adopt the kittens.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

And the circle continues.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

Another vote for emergency spay!

I work at a shelter and we are already seeing a fair few pregnant cats/ cats with kittens. What if you can't find a home for the kittens? You'll be adding to the rescue crisis that already exists.

Sorry if I sound blunt in that statement, but as someone on the frontline picking up the pieces it can be very frustrating.

Your cat is too young to have a litter, really. I, personally, would not be taking the risk. Now would be the best time to spay- I know it's not nice to think about, but I promise it's for the best!


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

I personally think it would be unnecessary cruel suffering for your cats under developed body to go through pregnancy then birth..

Im for an emergency spay.. have you seen the chart of moggies breeding and there siblings etc..

Just take a quick view through this part of the forum to see how many cats there are on this forum up for adoption...

Cat Rescue and Adoption - Pet Forums Community


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

JordanRose said:


> Another vote for emergency spay!
> 
> I work at a shelter and we are already seeing a fair few pregnant cats/ cats with kittens. What if you can't find a home for the kittens? You'll be adding to the rescue crisis that already exists.
> 
> ...


Let me also add this picture of one the cats I mention here.

She is 10 months old- or thereabouts- and potentially this is her second litter.

She's terribly thin, is finding bonding with the kittens difficult, and her kittens were born with 'fever coat', indicating she was stressed and/or ill whilst pregnant.

We were going to get her spayed, thinking she was in the early stages, but she surprised us with the litter. We had no idea she was full term!

Look at the sadness and the helplessness in her eyes. She broke my heart


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

Perfect example of when a picture is worth a thousand words.


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## nicolaa123 (Mar 30, 2012)

Oh that picture just broke my heart..such a good picture tho for a campaign..


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

JordanRose said:


> Let me also add this picture of one the cats I mention here.
> 
> She is 10 months old- or thereabouts- and potentially this is her second litter.
> 
> ...


That picture to me says a thousand words, poor little cat looks haunted :nonod:


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

nicolaa123 said:


> Oh that picture just broke my heart..such a good picture tho for a campaign..





simplysardonic said:


> That picture to me says a thousand words, poor little cat looks haunted :nonod:





Laurac said:


> Perfect example of when a picture is worth a thousand words.


It's not very often that I cry during my work at the SAA, but I cried for her. I'm welling up again now.

I cuddled her, told her I loved her, and how she would never have to go through this again. Either will her babies.

She is so trusting, and showed us how grateful she was for taking her in with her affection. But you can see on that photo the sadness she is trying to mask.

She's safe now, but it could all have been prevented :nonod:


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Please let us know how the vets go i and many more of us are here for support and advice.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

That picture broke my heart and does say a thousand words.

This 'Sticky Thread' should be required reading prior to anyone taking on the care of a cat....

http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-chat/232086-i-blame-you.html


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

JordanRose said:


> It's not very often that I cry during my work at the SAA, but I cried for her. I'm welling up again now.
> 
> I cuddled her, told her I loved her, and how she would never have to go through this again. Either will her babies.
> 
> ...


Has she found her forever home yet?

Bless her


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

SamanthaGoosey said:


> Has she found her forever home yet?
> 
> Bless her


She's in foster care now. She will be spayed and quarantined once her kittens are weaned, then will go to a new home. Won't be for a while yet, but she's in good hands


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

JR can you get any pics of the kittens coats,im interested to see it.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

In addition to a posthaste vet appointment, have you considered the very real likelihood of disease transmission? Is she current on all vaccines including FeLV and FIV? She has been exposed to whatever the stud may be carrying along with whatever the other stray/ferals she has had contact with might have.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

My heart breaks for this poor forlorn-looking kitten and her litter. Iona's cat is one of the lucky ones. At least, she has a slave who sought help once she realized her girl may be pregnant.... So many pregnant cats get dumped, and it seems to get worse rather than better.... My Gaudi and Connor were found in a garden with their mother and siblings when the kittens were only a week old, and Xena was found roaming motherless at 6 weeks old....

With all these television programmes about pets and veterinary hospitals, it is such a shame they never stress the importance of timely neutering and the risks of allowing cats to remain unneutered. Not only because of young cats getting pregnant or kittens being born that cannot find a home, but also because of the health risks for cats that keep going into call without getting pregnant.

Most people assume that the guidelines that apply to dogs also hold good for cats, and you cannot blame them, really, as the information provided in the media is minimal. If only the RSPCA and the TV shows about pets would put some more time, effort and money into informing people how young kittens can become fertile and how to recognize the signs, and into stressing the importance of neutering, these unintentional litters could be prevented.

I hope all goes well at the vet, Iona, and your girl's health has not suffered too much from this pregnancy. Please keep us informed, and if you have any questions, please ask away.

You have come to the right place.
The breeders on this forum are very knowledgeable and will be able to tell you what to do, and which food to buy to build up your girl's strength after her spay or, if it is too late for that, during her pregnancy and birth.

They will also be able to talk you through the process of birth, if it should come to that. They have acted as virtual midwives before, and if and when the need arises, they will do so again....


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

In this age of technology, where the vast majority of people seem to have the Internet via a computer or a phone, it still seems baffling that people claim ignorance over neutering. I could maybe understand it back in the day when people had to rely on old wives tales and library books. Nowadays, in the time it takes someone to send a text or check Facebook, they could just as easily google the words Basic Cat Care. 

As has been said though, the op will get knowledgable advice on here.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> JR can you get any pics of the kittens coats,im interested to see it.


Here's a couple- not the best pics as they're so wriggly!! I didn't want to handle or touch them too much, due to scenting and the risk of rejection so these are the best I got 

So basically, they're most likely black kittens underneath that silver fur...(there's also a black&white, you can see their leg poking out in the second pic!  )


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Laurac said:


> In this age of technology, where the vast majority of people seem to have the Internet via a computer or a phone, it still seems baffling that people claim ignorance over neutering. I could maybe understand it back in the day when people had to rely on old wives tales and library books. Nowadays, in the time it takes someone to send a text or check Facebook, they could just as easily google the words Basic Cat Care.
> 
> As has been said though, the op will get knowledgable advice on here.


You forget that many people still base their decisions on what they learned from their parents and on what they are told by the people they get their cats from. And most unneutered kittens come from private homes of people who did not neuter their cats either.

And a lot also depends on the choice of key words if you search the net. In order to get the right information, you need to type in the key words that seem logical _if you are already aware of the need for neutering_.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

JordanRose said:


> Here's a couple- not the best pics as they're so wriggly!! I didn't want to handle or touch them too much, due to scenting and the risk of rejection so these are the best I got
> 
> So basically, they're most likely black kittens underneath that silver fur...(there's also a black&white, you can see their leg poking out in the second pic!  )


Wow thats left me lost for words.The colour is lovely mind it would be great to see them as they grow to see the difference.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> Wow thats left me lost for words.The colour is lovely mind it would be great to see them as they grow to see the difference.


I'll get some pics of them when they come back in for rehoming in a couple of months- if I can recognise them, that is!

We got excited, thinking we had some nice silvers/ greys (lots of people request greys- as if we design them!  ), but turns out they're probably black after all. Not many people want black kittens


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> You forget that many people still base their decisions on what they learned from their parents and on what they are told by the people they get their cats from. And most unneutered kittens come from private homes of people who did not neuter their cats either.
> 
> And a lot also depends on the choice of key words if you search the net. In order to get the right information, you need to type in the key words that seem logical _if you are already aware of the need for neutering_.


I have just typed in basic cat care and looking after a cat - the top link on both searches had a section on neutering.


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

JordanRose said:


> I'll get some pics of them when they come back in for rehoming in a couple of months- if I can recognise them, that is!
> 
> We got excited, thinking we had some nice silvers/ greys (lots of people request greys- as if we design them!  ), but turns out they're probably black after all. Not many people want black kittens


So how did your decide thet wernt silver and that it was FC?


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I googled cat care, and the very first article that came up had the following sections:

How to Choose a Cat
Choosing an Indoor Cat vs. an Outdoor Cat
Cat-Feeding Tips
Store-Bought Cat Food vs. Homemade Cat Food
Cat-Grooming Tips 
Cat-Bathing Tips
How to Cat-Proof Your Home
Cat Toys
Veterinarian Visits and Vaccinations

See all General Cat Care Tips articles - which refers to a page with home remedies for frequent complaints and illnesses.

It all depends on which site you find, and this one appears to be very comprehensive, but it never mentions the necessity of neutering in the general information.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> So how did your decide thet wernt silver and that it was FC?


I've just gone off what Kittenfostermummy said 

FC makes sense, as she had been a pregnant stray- she would most likely have been very stressed!

I don't know how common silvers are for moggies, but am leaning more towards FC. One of them has a black head and the rest is silvery, and you can see that they have black fur underneath.

I guess we'll have to wait and see!


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

JordanRose said:


> I've just gone off what Kittenfostermummy said
> 
> FC makes sense, as she had been a pregnant stray- she would most likely have been very stressed!
> 
> ...


Ah i see,very interesting!


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Not sure that discussing coat colours is any help to the OP who has probably also been told enough about what she did wrong.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Hi do we know any more on your girl?


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

JordanRose said:


> Here's a couple- not the best pics as they're so wriggly!! I didn't want to handle or touch them too much, due to scenting and the risk of rejection so these are the best I got
> 
> So basically, they're most likely black kittens underneath that silver fur...(there's also a black&white, you can see their leg poking out in the second pic!  )





we love bsh's said:


> Wow thats left me lost for words.The colour is lovely mind it would be great to see them as they grow to see the difference.





we love bsh's said:


> So how did your decide thet wernt silver and that it was FC?





JordanRose said:


> I've just gone off what Kittenfostermummy said
> 
> FC makes sense, as she had been a pregnant stray- she would most likely have been very stressed!
> 
> ...


This isn't how silver presents - silver is underneath the coat, not on top of. This is very very definitely fever coat. By the time they are 6 months old they will be almost black and at a year they will be black.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

spid said:


> This isn't how silver presents - silver is underneath the coat, not on top of. This is very very definitely fever coat. By the time they are 6 months old they will be almost black and at a year they will be black.


That's what I thought. Thanks, Spid!


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Im a bit confused as to what this has got to do with the original thread.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

tigerboo said:


> Im a bit confused as to what this has got to do with the original thread.


It has gone off on a bit of a tangent  Sorry, OP!

However, it also shows the risks of pregnancy. Fever Coat indicates that Hattie (Mummy cat) had some kind of illness whilst pregnant. It also shows very clearly the stress that she went through.

Basically, it displays that a very unhappy cat was carrying these babies :nonod:

There is NO reason to be putting cats through this. The only breeding I will ever condone is ethical, pedigree breeding where it is for the betterment of the breed. Breeding moggies is unnecessary...


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Oh im with you now.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

I really do hope if shes not to far gone that you do get her spayed take it from someone who has not long been through what you may be going through yes i made a mistake by not getting tiger done but now i know i have to do right by her by getting her spayed when kittens are weaned.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

OP vanished several pages back, probably overwhelmed by it all.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Why do people do that?


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## momentofmadness (Jul 19, 2008)

tigerboo said:


> Why do people do that?


Cause they feel bombarded by info from people they know nothing about.. Even though thye asked for help in the first place..

This thread isn't even on the same track.. simple questions... simple answers..


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Personally, I think all these threads provide an important opportunity to get the spay/neuter message across to everyone who may be reading in addition to OP. Fever coat and stress are part and parcel with what the cat is being subjected to so it does add to the sad reality of these 'accidents'.

Bear in mind, OP _knew_ about neutering. Stated her "un-nuetered" cat had been out all night! _So it wasn't about not knowing! 
_ I've noticed in many of these recent 'accidents' the owner knew FULL WELL about spay/neuter!!! The multitude of excuses usually follow.

Another creative excuse to add to the list of excuses for not spaying a pregnant cat: "_Vet turned around and told me he could get sued_" for performing the spay. Mind you person had the cat for over 6 months and cat had first vet visit _ever_ just 10 days prior to labour.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Iona Archer said:


> HELP!!!! *I have let my 9 month old cat that had not been neutered out for the night,* \


So why was this cat who had not been neutered let out to begin with.? This is not about not knowing that you don't let an intact cat outdoors, sorry.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Lots of people are not exposed to the information people here have, they have never been to a shelter and don´t consider spaying their cats. The thing is, the OP isn´t asking wether she should spay or not (before a pregnancy), the deed has been done, the cat may be pregnant. While I do understand the reasons people give for spaying while pregnant, it´s something I would never do or advice to do and before anyone jumps at me to tell me things, it´s my right to have an opinion and I do help out in a shelter and in Spain (anyone who knows this country will understand why I mention it) with almost 200 cats some of them in horrible conditions.

We all have things we are comfortable with and should never ever be bullied into accepting other people´s points of views (well meaning or not). 
OP please let us know how the vet went and feel free to ask us anything, that´s what we are here for.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm not just going to ignore an issue just because it takes a thread slightly off track - crikey if that's the way we have to conduct ourselves now, it's ridiculous! Fever coat is part of education - it's important that people know this isn't a 'rare' colour and it will fade, so no point selling them on as rare, and certainly worth getting mum checked over for a low grade infection. Cripes!:huh:


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

I've talked about this with my vet who provides a free spay/neuter service (occasionally pregnant spays) to two local cat shelters. What mystifies him is that when presented with a kitten for vaccinations he, and in his opinion the vast majority of all vets, will discuss spaying/neutering for the near future at that point and the risks of unwanted pregnancies, etc.

One has to assume that, in most cases, either the kitten has never seen a vet for vaccination or if s/he did, the advice was ignored.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

momentofmadness said:


> Cause they feel bombarded by info from people they know nothing about.. Even though thye asked for help in the first place..
> 
> This thread isn't even on the same track.. simple questions... simple answers..


Maybe because they got pages of why they should spay followed by a couple of totally meaningless (to them) pages of conjecture about what coat a kitten has.

They were clearly told in the first page they had two choices - spay/abort or let her have the kittens. Did they need any other information? Almost certainly not. Very hard I know not to all weigh in with our own reasons for getting her spayed, but it's not done any good IMHO. It's not as if we are on a forum which more or less forbids mention of spay/abort!

They did say they would ask their vet, they got side-tracked into looking at her nipples (pointless in the situation - the cat will be pregnant) so maybe managed to convince themselves it was OK after all.

BTW they have not vanished from PF, just here.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

merlin12 said:


> Lots of people are not exposed to the information people here have, they have never been to a shelter and don´t consider spaying their cats. The thing is, the OP isn´t asking wether she should spay or not (before a pregnancy), the deed has been done, the cat may be pregnant. While I do understand the reasons people give for spaying while pregnant, it´s something I would never do or advice to do and before anyone jumps at me to tell me things, it´s my right to have an opinion and I do help out in a shelter and in Spain (anyone who knows this country will understand why I mention it) with almost 200 cats some of them in horrible conditions.
> 
> We all have things we are comfortable with and should never ever be bullied into accepting other people´s points of views (well meaning or not).
> OP please let us know how the vet went and feel free to ask us anything, that´s what we are here for.


I know what you mean. It's easy for me- or anyone else- to say an emergency spay is the best way to go, but we're not in that position ourselves.

That said, if my unspayed cat was to escape (by 10 months old they would have been spayed a long time before anyway), I would be taking them to the vet immediately. To be honest, I don't think I would feel much regret, either. If I could have them spayed straight away- without even knowing if they're pregnant or not- I would. No question.

I think emergency spays- whether the OP chooses to seek them out or not- need to be highlighted. Many are not aware it is an option, and that once pregnant, there's no going back.

If they do not feel they can go through with it, members will always (reluctantly) pull together to ensure a safe delivery.



spid said:


> I'm not just going to ignore an issue just because it takes a thread slightly off track - crikey if that's the way we have to conduct ourselves now, it's ridiculous! Fever coat is part of education - it's important that people know this isn't a 'rare' colour and it will fade, so no point selling them on as rare, and certainly worth getting mum checked over for a low grade infection. Cripes!:huh:


Hear, hear! 

I added it 1) as I was requested to and 2) it highlights one of the issues associated with breeding.

We are here to advise and educate, are we not?


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

I think we all need to calm down take a deep breath and concentrate on this thread.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

gskinner123 said:


> *One has to assume that, in most cases, either the kitten has never seen a vet for vaccination or if s/he did, the advice was ignored.*


Which highlights the added very real concern about disease transmission, in addition to another 'accidental' pregnancy. :wink:


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

JordanRose said:


> If they do not feel they can go through with it, members will always (reluctantly) pull together to ensure a safe delivery.


Agree with all you've said. I find it hard though not the labour the point and I've said it before but in all the time I've been a member of this forum I can only recall one person who did "feel they could go through with it". And I might even have imagined that one.

That seems to me to be a very skewed ratio and you can't help but think that, in most cases, what's really desired is a litter of cute kittens.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

gskinner123 said:


> > I've talked about this with my vet who provides a free spay/neuter service (occasionally pregnant spays) to two local cat shelters.
> 
> 
> I am extremely envious! -- I wish the Shelter I volunteer at had such a free service - we spend a fortune on vet's fees every year, most of it for
> ...


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

gskinner123 said:


> Agree with all you've said. I find it hard though not the labour the point and I've said it before but in all the time I've been a member of this forum I can only recall one person who did "feel they could go through with it". And I might even have imagined that one.
> 
> That seems to me to be a very skewed ratio and you can't help but think that, in most cases, what's really desired is a litter of cute kittens.


Unfortunately, I agree.

The vast majority, I end up questioning just how 'accidental' these litters are


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> I've talked about this with my vet who provides a free spay/neuter service (occasionally pregnant spays) to two local cat shelters. What mystifies him is that when presented with a kitten for vaccinations he, and in his opinion the vast majority of all vets, will discuss spaying/neutering for the near future at that point and the risks of unwanted pregnancies, etc.
> 
> One has to assume that, in most cases, either the kitten has never seen a vet for vaccination or if s/he did, the advice was ignored.


In my experience, many vets don't.....
This may be because they know me and my cats and know I will have them spayed or neutered as soon as possible if they haven't been done before I got them, but no vet never suggested neutering to me or offered to book them in of their own accord.


----------



## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

chillminx said:


> gskinner123 said:
> 
> 
> > I am extremely envious! -- I wish the Shelter I volunteer at had such a free service - we spend a fortune on vet's fees every year, most of it for
> ...


----------



## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

momentofmadness said:


> Cause they feel bombarded by info from people they know nothing about.. Even though thye asked for help in the first place..
> 
> This thread isn't even on the same track.. simple questions... simple answers..


Maybe we should make another sticky about the health risks of not neutering and of allowing queens to call multiple times, and about what to do when you think your cat is pregnant.....

This way, we could refer newbies with fertility and pregnancy questions to this thread and only provide additional information to them about their specific case.

It would keep things more to the point, so new posters do not get lost in the avalanche of tips and advice, much of which will be repeated by several people due to cross-posting and members not reading the entire thread before answering....


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Has any one heard off the op?


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## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

spid said:


> I'm not just going to ignore an issue just because it takes a thread slightly off track - crikey if that's the way we have to conduct ourselves now, it's ridiculous! Fever coat is part of education - it's important that people know this isn't a 'rare' colour and it will fade, so no point selling them on as rare, and certainly worth getting mum checked over for a low grade infection. Cripes!:huh:


Couldnt agree more,im sat here wondering why its such a big deal that a thread goes slightly off track i mean jeez is it such a big deal to put in extra info that everyone can read and learn from?

I actually recieved a super link due to this thread on fever coat with fantastic examples of it a different stages i will share with you all once i sort the silly mouse out.

I very much doubt the reason the op has not come back yet is due to going off topic we all probably could guess why tbh.

I do hope we hear from them though.


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

gskinner123 said:


> Agree with all you've said. I find it hard though not the labour the point and I've said it before but in all the time I've been a member of this forum I can only recall one person who did "feel they could go through with it". And I might even have imagined that one.
> 
> That seems to me to be a very skewed ratio and you can't help but think that, in most cases, what's really desired is a litter of cute kittens.


That last sentence is one of the most honest assessments of the situation that i have read on here - pleased someone has finally said it as opposed to trying to find excuses for why someone wouldn't have neutered their pet.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

JordanRose said:


> > The vast majority, I end up questioning just how 'accidental' these litters are
> 
> 
> JR, you may be right, I'm not sure.....
> ...


----------



## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

chillminx said:


> JordanRose said:
> 
> 
> > JR, you may be right, I'm not sure.....
> ...


----------



## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

chillminx said:


> JordanRose said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the pregnant young cats belong to first time cat owners, who may be rather naive, with zero experience of cat care, (maybe no experience of caring for any kind of animal). Most of the owners are probably well aware that at some stage the cat will come into sexual maturity, but they are rather vague about exactly when this is likely to happen, and instead of making the effort to find out and be prepared, they just wait and hope for the best. Perhaps they adopt the attitude that if the cat becomes pregnant, well maybe "one litter wouldn't hurt"!!
> ...


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

I think this topic needs changing back to the original thread now we all know to get our cats neutered now.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

tigerboo said:


> I think this topic needs changing back to the original thread now we all know to get our cats neutered now.


I think it's a very worthwhile thread, to be honest.

The OP has their answers, and it's up to them to take information on board.

I feel the thread is very civil- we are merely promoting the benefits of neutering and the reasons behind it. Judging by the amount of moggy pregnancies lately, it's something that needs discussing explicitly, at length and frequently.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Yes but the op hasnt come back doesnt that say something? And maybe start a new thread about neutering.


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## JordanRose (Mar 10, 2012)

tigerboo said:


> Yes but the op hasnt come back doesnt that say something? And maybe start a new thread about neutering.


That's not to say they haven't read the responses...

This isn't the first thread on here to spark a discussion.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Laurac said:


> That last sentence is one of the most honest assessments of the situation that i have read on here - pleased someone has finally said it as opposed to trying to find excuses for why someone wouldn't have neutered their pet.


Laura -- sorry, but I don't think it's about "trying to find excuses".

Personally I have not come across anyone on this forum, or any other cat welfare forum, who does not disapprove *whole-heartedly*
of uncaring irresponsible owners who leave their cats unaltered, and then add insult to injury by leaving them to roam freely, to add to the kitten population.

Anyone in their right mind, who is the least bit caring, is going to deplore the way so many cats are allowed to breed, when they are barely beyond kittenhood too. Surely the situation makes most sensible people very angry! 
Why would it not

Working in Cat Rescue as I do, I get disillusioned over and over again with what I see of the way so many humans neglect and abuse their cats. Failure to neuter or spay free roaming cats is of course neglect. I could spend my whole day seething, but what does that achieve, other than giving me an ulcer?

Nothing is going to change until we can educate cat owners better, and 
this forum gives us an opportunity to win hearts and influence people. It is vitally important to find ways to get the message across to as many people as possible, in ways that will get heard and remembered.

Reading a rant is not going to help most people who are here looking for advice, but clearly expressed guidance, along with firm consistent approval for neutering/spaying along with a concise guide as to the very real dangers of not doing so, will have a positive effect. Trust me, it will.


----------



## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

chillminx said:


> Laura -- sorry, but I don't think it's about "trying to find excuses".
> 
> Personally I have not come across anyone on this forum, or any other cat welfare forum, who does not disapprove *whole-heartedly*
> of uncaring irresponsible owners who leave their cats unaltered, and then add insult to injury by leaving them to roam freely, to add to the kitten population.
> ...


My point exactly.

I sometimes feel that all this indignation is more about glorification of the author's superior knowledge or moral standards than about helping the cat and educating its owner.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Jiskefet said:


> chillminx said:
> 
> 
> > This tallies with my experience, both on this forum and at the rescues I have been involved with.
> ...


----------



## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

chillminx said:


> JR, you may be right, I'm not sure.....
> 
> When I see (at the Shelter) the number of un-neutered young male cats who've been allowed to wander, get lost, or injured on the roads whilst chasing a female, I regard it as being due to the same kind of irresponsible owners as those who leave young female cats unspayed after the age of sexual maturity, in many cases allowing them to roam freely. (I am not referring to the OP here).
> 
> ...


Agree, but we seldom hear about the un-nuetered male cats left out TBH. Maybe I have missed such threads, but they too should be made aware of the consequences of their actions.

Also think most of the remarks on this thread are general comments not aimed at the OP, but posted in the interest of anyone reading as it should be.


----------



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

Toby Tyler said:


> Agree, but we seldom hear about the un-nuetered male cats left out TBH. Maybe I have missed such threads, but they too should be made aware of the consequences of their actions.
> 
> Also think most of the remarks on this thread are general comments not aimed at the OP, but posted in the interest of anyone reading as it should be.


I cant tell you have annoying it is to have the local toms hanging around at nights when i have girls in call.They sit on top of my cattery its so annoying it sets my lot off then i get no sleep.Grrr! Whoops off topic again


----------



## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

chillminx said:


> Laura -- sorry, but I don't think it's about "trying to find excuses".
> 
> Personally I have not come across anyone on this forum, or any other cat welfare forum, who does not disapprove *whole-heartedly*
> of uncaring irresponsible owners who leave their cats unaltered, and then add insult to injury by leaving them to roam freely, to add to the kitten population.
> ...


True. I find that when most people write here, the cat has already been out and is pregnant. Then I read 20 replies asking in one way or the other how the owner has been so irresponsible and why didn´t the person spay or neuter. Don´t get me wrong, I´m 100% for educating people but at that point I find recriminations are not very helpful. You have an adult coming on a forum to ask advice (they take the time to actually come here) and I´ve seen threads were the OP, has to apologize in almost every answer. The OP doesn´t owe any of us an apology, he/she owes a big apology to the cat for not knowing, being careless or not putting enough interest, but not to us. What should be in our minds first and foremost is the cat and sadly some people don´t return.
Still there are not enough campaigns educating people on the importance of spay/neuter to avoid certain situations, maybe all new owners that come on pf should be nicely adviced after the welcome package to spay/neuter. But the truth is that most of the "I just opened the door and out it flew" are not usual pf members, they know better.


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> My point exactly.
> 
> I sometimes feel that all this indignation is more about glorification of the author's superior knowledge or moral standards than about helping the cat and educating its owner.


coudn´t agree with you more if I tried.


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

I just had an idea...

Maybe we should create a sticky entitled "Is your cat pregnant?"

Then the many people who come to this forum to ask will probably go there first, and in it we can describe the signs, but along with it at what stage you can still spay/abort the babies, and then go on to explain why they shouldn't go through with the birth, the consequences etc.

This may result in a lower amount of threads about "accidental" pregnancies and get people educated answers without everyone getting so annoyed every time they see a thread like this. Plus, having to repeat yourself all the time sucks.


----------



## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

SamanthaGoosey said:


> I just had an idea...
> 
> Maybe we should create a sticky entitled "Is your cat pregnant?"
> 
> ...


Great idea! However not to be cynical but there are already so many sticky threads which quite obviously are not being read before posting


----------



## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> Great idea! However not to be cynical but there are already so many sticky threads which quite obviously are not being read before posting


I know, but to be honest - I mean in no way to offend anyone - the titles of the stickies might put some people off because for one, your average person who just wants their cat to have one litter or doesn't care where she goes, isn't going to be interested in genetics or kitten packs or birthing boxes, plus they'd claim they aren't a breeder, it was an "accident". Also they'd avoid the spay/neutering thread anyway, because they obviously didn't want to or didn't know about this in the first place so it's meaningless to them and a lot of people think you can't have pregnant cats spayed.

Also, it's basically their first question, is she pregnant? So it's right there in the title.

So basically it's just a simple title, simple language, just so we can explain it in a nice way in order to persuade them the best we can 

Sorry, my psychology nerd side is coming out


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## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> My point exactly.
> 
> I sometimes feel that all this indignation is more about glorification of the author's superior knowledge or moral standards than about helping the cat and educating its owner.


At the risk of sending myself to the guillotine - it often feels as if some of the elements of the cat helping and owner educating is done to make the helpers and educators feel useful just as much as it is help the op's.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

SamanthaGoosey said:


> Sorry, my psychology nerd side is coming out


You have a very wise psychology nerd head on your shoulders....


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> You have a very wise psychology nerd head on your shoulders....


Thank you


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

SamanthaGoosey said:


> I just had an idea...
> 
> Maybe we should create a sticky entitled "Is your cat pregnant?"
> 
> ...


Great minds think alike..... 
I suggested the very same thing a few hours ago, only I meant to include the risks to unspayed non-pregnant cats, too...


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## SamanthaGoosey (Jan 26, 2013)

Jiskefet said:


> Great minds think alike.....
> I suggested the very same thing a few hours ago, only I meant to include the risks to unspayed non-pregnant cats, too...


I think we can do this, just need a mod to help


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Laurac said:


> At the risk of sending myself to the guillotine - it often feels as if some of the elements of the cat helping and owner educating is done to make the helpers and educators feel useful just as much as it is help the op's.


Maybe so, but at least it will help the cat and owner instead of chasing the owner away forever and leaving the cat in the same situation it was before......

And is n't helping someone else always about feeling good about it?
It is just like sex: if it made you feel bad instead of good, you wouldn't do it again.....

AndI find feeling good about doing something positive for someone else a lot more rewarding than feeling good about making someone else feel bad.


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

I don't see that a sticky would hurt but I doubt it will be read as the search function is rarely used on here either, but if the sticky is done I think it should go Cat Chat, Health and Nutrition, Breeding and Behaviour sections as Oops litter breeders do tend to post in any or all the main cat sections as they may not automatically go for breeding as they consider it just for Pedigree Breeders, just my two-penneth


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## Ianthi (Oct 21, 2008)

Laurac said:


> At the risk of sending myself to the guillotine - it often feels as if some of the elements of the cat helping and owner educating is done to make the helpers and educators feel useful just as much as it is help the op's.


Feel useful?  I would have thought it has more to do with focusing on the issue in hand ie we are where we are, as opposed to pointless recriminations, which for the most past only succeed in alienating the OPs or driving them away completely!


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

I really don't think anyone is purposely trying to make someone feel bad. And no one can 'make' someone feel bad.  That's their own choice.

This is a public forum about Cats and the responses are going to be based on personal experience and all other things blended in. We should welcome and embrace different views.

If it chases someone away, are they _really_ that interested in the welfare of the cat after all? Some people just need to develop a tougher skin. It's one of life's important lessons you might not always get the answer you solicit.


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## Momo43 (Mar 9, 2013)

I guess I'm different before I joined I read through multiple threads and forums. It feels like I know some of you guys with the amount of threads I've read lol.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Toby Tyler said:


> Great idea! However not to be cynical but there are already so many sticky threads which quite obviously are not being read before posting


True, people who post for urgent advice are in a panic and will not search for earlier posts first.
Or they are new to forum dynamics as a whole and don't know where to look.....

But at least we can point them to the sticky for general information and only need to add additional comments about this specific case.
It would save us a lot of repetitive typing and it will be easier for the newbie to wade through all the information thrown at them.


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Toby Tyler said:


> I really don't think anyone is purposely trying to make someone feel bad. And no one can 'make' someone feel bad.  That's their own choice.
> 
> This is a public forum about Cats and the responses are going to be based on personal experience and all other things blended in. We should welcome and embrace different views.
> 
> If it chases someone away, are they _really_ that interested in the welfare of the cat after all? Some people just need to develop a tougher skin. It's one of life's important lessons you might not always get the answer you solicit.


That is a bit harsh of course they care thats why people come on this forum for help and advice not to get chased away because of a mistake theyve made.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Toby Tyler said:


> I really don't think anyone is purposely trying to make someone feel bad. And no one can 'make' someone feel bad.  That's their own choice.
> 
> This is a public forum about Cats and the responses are going to be based on personal experience and all other things blended in. We should welcome and embrace different views.
> 
> If it chases someone away, are they _really_ that interested in the welfare of the cat after all? Some people just need to develop a tougher skin. It's one of life's important lessons you might not always get the answer you solicit.


You seem to forget there is a cat's life involved..........

You really need to consider what you _really_ want to achieve.....
Do you want to unleash the inquisition on the owner, or do you want to help the cat?

In 99% of these cases, it will be one or the other.
If you insist on condemning the owner, be aware you will be condemning the cat, too.

If that is what you want, go ahead, but if things go wrong, the PF members who chase the owner away are just as guilty as the owners themselves.

After all, we all claim to have the cats' interests at heart.......


----------



## Momo43 (Mar 9, 2013)

Like cats, every person is different. Some are more sensitive than others. It's not about having a tougher skin, there are a lot of variables when it comes to hurt feelings. I disagree with the term chased away." Someone could decide they simply don't want to be here and join another forum. Pf isn't the only one on the net full of people willing to help you.


----------



## Laurac (Oct 1, 2011)

Jiskefet said:


> You seem to forget there is a cat's life involved..........
> 
> You really need to consider what you _really_ want to achieve.....
> Do you want to unleash the inquisition on the owner, or do you want to help the cat?
> ...


I am sorry - but that is a pile of emotive rubbish. If the owner of the cat doesn't log back on to the forum then they have probably done what most other pet owners do and go to a vet. If they dont't - that is 100% their fault. Believe it or not, the vast majority of the world manages to get through life without needing to consult a forum. This particular forum has many good points - but it seems that some feel it has special superhuman powers!


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

If people have been offered help by people with a wealth of experience but dare not post in the cat section, or anywhere on the forum, because of the continued attacks abaout how the cat got pregnant in the first place, I think being chased away is a pretty accurate description.

And even if they were foolish enough to think a litter of cute kittens would be fun to begin with, the worries of their cat's labour and birth, and the cost of having a multitude of mouths to feed and to have all the kittens receive the proper veterinary care will cure them of that misconception soon enough. 

With proper care, mother and kittens will at least have the best possible chance. And what the cat and kittens need is something they can learn from us.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Laurac said:


> I am sorry - but that is a pile of emotive rubbish. If the owner of the cat doesn't log back on to the forum then they have probably done what most other pet owners do and go to a vet. If they dont't - that is 100% their fault. Believe it or not, the vast majority of the world manages to get through life without needing to consult a forum. This particular forum has many good points - but it seems that some feel it has special superhuman powers!


Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you


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## MontyMaude (Feb 23, 2012)

Laurac said:


> I am sorry - but that is a pile of emotive rubbish. If the owner of the cat doesn't log back on to the forum then they have probably done what most other pet owners do and go to a vet. If they dont't - that is 100% their fault. Believe it or not, the vast majority of the world manages to get through life without needing to consult a forum. This particular forum has many good points - but it seems that some feel it has special superhuman powers!


I so want to rep you but can't.


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Jiskefet said:


> You seem to forget there is a cat's life involved..........


The fact is that there are *many cats lives involved*. Which is why this topic gets so emotional and why there will always be a multitude of responses, not all of which may be to one's own personal liking.


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## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

I give up.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

Laurac said:


> I am sorry - but that is a pile of emotive rubbish. If the owner of the cat doesn't log back on to the forum then they have probably done what most other pet owners do and go to a vet. If they dont't - that is 100% their fault. Believe it or not, the vast majority of the world manages to get through life without needing to consult a forum. This particular forum has many good points - but it seems that some feel it has special superhuman powers!


This may be 'just a forum', but the people who post are human, and asking for help, so they deserve to be treated civilly.


----------



## Cosmills (Oct 3, 2012)

we love bsh's said:


> I cant tell you have annoying it is to have the local toms hanging around at nights when i have girls in call.They sit on top of my cattery its so annoying it sets my lot off then i get no sleep.Grrr! Whoops off topic again


Very annoying ... I've had one for the last two nights , I would love to get hold of him and find his owner and give them a peace of my mind ... Grrrr


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## merlin12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Case study:

Newbie:

"Hello I have a 9 month old cat, I went out to throw the bin and she escaped. She came back 2 days later. That was 4 weeks ago and she seems a bit fatter now. Could she be pregnant?

Now, why people come on the forum looking for confirmation on a cat we don't know from Garfield instead of going to a vet....but that is another matter.

First 30 PF members:
"why wasn't she spayed?"
"You should have spayed her"
"That is so irresponsible, do you know how many cats are in shelters?"
"Really, why wasn't she spayed?
.
Newbie decides that if he wants to be insulted he will visit his MIL and doesnt return.

Who have we helped?

Now none of concerns and worries of the pf members are stupid, they are trying to 
protect the cat...but we fail to realize that we are not talking to our junior sister who will 
come back after a sulk. It is someone who does not like to be made to feel guilty. So 
again, who have we helped?

This is a very serious issue and my example is just how I see it from the outside. YES, cats 
should be spayed and if possible before being let out. We all agree on that. Do 30 post need to point out a mistake that has been made? I feel we need to find solutions for the OP's problem. That doesn't mean we applaud his actions.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Laurac said:


> At the risk of sending myself to the guillotine - it often feels as if some of the elements of the cat helping and owner educating is done to make the helpers and educators feel useful just as much as it is help the op's.


A real dog-in-the-manger attitude :-- you don't want to help or educate those less knowledgeable than you, but just damn them; and yet you bitterly resent those who do try and help. 

Anyone who adopts an unpaid educative/helping role in life, whether it is on a forum or in real life through their charity work in Rescue, is doing so because they care passionately about the welfare of cats. As a means of demonstrating their commitment to improving the lives of cats, they want to share their knowledge, and *spread the word* so things might change for the better.

Perhaps some of us have a touch of Messianic zeal about us, and get rather 
enthusiastic at times about what we do, but when you sneer at us (from your manger) it makes *you* look bad, not us.


----------



## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Toby Tyler said:


> > If it chases someone away, are they _really_ that interested in the welfare of the cat after all? Some people just need to develop a tougher skin. It's one of life's important lessons you might not always get the answer you solicit.
> 
> 
> Most people who join a forum for advice are not going to take any heed of what is said, if it's couched in rude, offensively abrupt terms, as much of the advice on accidental pregnancies has been in the past. Nor are they going to bother coming back for another onslaught!
> ...


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Okay, this is taking it OT, but it goes both ways.


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## jess91 (Jun 28, 2011)

Just my thoughts but, just because someone doesn't return to post, doesn't mean they aren't still reading the forums, maybe without logging in. I hardly actually post but I read most threads every day.

I know when I first joined I was shot down a bit for feeding my cats more complimentary food than complete (I didn't know better then).
I didn't run away from the forum all upset. I just continued reading stuff without actually posting anything myself.
And even if I had run, I had still read the info I was given about complete food. And so I had still learnt my error.

I'm just saying, just because the OP doesn't post a response doesn't mean they aren't still reading the rest of the advice. Don't automatically assume they have been chased away.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I joined this forum to get advise on a poorly kitten, thankfully she is now well and living in her new home.

I stayed on this forum not only because its friendly and the advise is good and helpful but to help cats and kittens. 

I dont agree with accidental kittens and when i read my cat got out but i waited a month i do wonder where the logic is in doing this, surely an urgent spay is needed then we wouldnt have these threads of is she pregnant.

Sadly now we have a possible, well very likely a pregnant cat and the owner doesnt know what to do, so we can help the CAT and her KITTENS or we easily turn our laptops off and think oh well, maybe all will be fine or maybe they will just die but i will just get on with my life.

Sorry but this attitude annoys me, yes i also have a life but at 1am i was on the phone to SnazzyJazzy helping her revive a kitten, this kitten would have died if sj didnt get advise quickly.
Boadicea1, well she chose to disappear, thats fine, i know the kittens was born and no problems was presented, so basically i can sleep at night and not sit and worry.

Another case, Simone, some may remember she has also gone but her girl is doing well and she keeps in contact with me via phone calls, she is due in 2 weeks and i will be on the phone helping her even if its 2am, as i want to be sure the cat and kitten is safe and well.

People may disagree with me and no i dont know everything but if we pull together with all our experiences and knowledge between us we can advise on labour, birth and neutering.

So rambling now but i do wish to sleep at night and will continue to offer advise, thats just the way i am, too soft but this is a pet forum after all. 

I will leave it by saying this......op tigerboo has my mobile number, if you need to talk/advise or anything really please do contact me.


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## Nerner83 (Mar 20, 2013)

SamanthaGoosey said:


> I just had an idea...
> 
> Maybe we should create a sticky entitled "Is your cat pregnant?"
> 
> ...


I think that's an excellent idea, to be honest as someone who's in a similar position to the OP it could be quite intimidating knowing that when I inevitably post for advice so as to do the best I can for my cat I'm likely to get my hands slapped, most of the points made I'm sure I will completely agree with but it can be hard sometimes to actually access the advice that is much needed and wanted. I can see from all the posters that's there's a wealth of knowledge on here and hopefully support too during what I suspect is going to be my first cat pregnancy. Just in case anyone is wondering the intention was originally for my female cats to be house cats, after deciding this was perhaps not the best option for our cats we decided to save up to move house off a very busy road, we only moved just over a month ago and decided to get 1 cat spayed per month, starting with the one who experiences being in season the most frequently, however before this could happens little miss Houdini cat somehow got out & disappeared for 18 days, she has been back for 2 weeks and nipples have gone pinker in the last 2 days. The other 2 have their appointments booked to be neutered. 
I was really determined to read as many threads as I could on here to avoid asking questions that have already been asked, hence I've ended up here and if anyone can direct me (tho I will find it I'm sure if I keep looking) to the thread that I need for actual signs / tips for pregnancy and birth that would be wonderful.
I didn't intend to post yet but just wanted to say that I think the above suggestion (quoted) is a really good idea!
Thank you x x


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

The sticky may be a good idea but I know that we would still have posters asking if their cat might be pregnant - stickies do tend to be overlooked.
However if someone wants to write the definitive thread answering the question;
'Could my cat be pregnant' I will happily make it into a sticky.


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

I joined this forum as I felt it would be helpful and informative and that having been a registered cat breeder for more than 10 years I could impart some of my knowledge and help to other people when they need it. However since looking here all I see are threads where cats have got accidently pregnant and then pages of bullying and lambasted by other posters about why did they let the cat out, get it neutered etc etc. Surely this place is supposed to be about helping people not driving them away. Yes we all agree that neutering is the best course of action but many people don't or haven't got round to it and accidents happen. We should be supporting those people not bullying and coercing them. its happened and i'm sure the OP feels bad enough already without having it continually rubbed in their face.

We don't live in a perfect world and cats have kittens end of. I am a caring and ethical breeder who adheres to all the proper procedures but being a registered breeder doesn't always make someone a great breeder, at the risk of being shot I know several breeders who I would absolutely never buy a kitten from but I know several of your so called BYB who aren't registered but are fantastic breeders. 

To the OP if you are still reading there are people who care and will help support you through your cats pregnancy and birth. Yes it would have been better if she had been neutered but whats done is done. The vast majority of cats do have normal pregnancies and give birth without problems (in 40+ births I have never needed a c-section, only 1 girl needed an injection once to stimulate contractions). The majority of kittens too are born healthy without problems but if you need help then please come back.


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## Kah (Jul 20, 2012)

Couldn't we just have a 'gentleman's' (!) agreement? If someone posts for help/advice...then those who are willing to offer it respond. Debates about how to treat people/neutering etc are all valid but are better in separate threads? Kx


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Kah, with all due respect and you know I mean that sincerely  aren't threads also for the benefit of everyone reading, not just the OP?

So it does provide an educational opportunity for everyone, not just the OP. And if _just one _person reading decided not to let their unaltered cat outdoors to roam, and _just one_ 'accidental' pregnancy is prevented, would you still feel the same?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

chloe1975 said:


> I joined this forum as I felt it would be helpful and informative and that having been a registered cat breeder for more than 10 years I could impart some of my knowledge and help to other people when they need it. However since looking here all I see are threads where cats have got accidently pregnant and then pages of bullying and lambasted by other posters about why did they let the cat out, get it neutered etc etc. Surely this place is supposed to be about helping people not driving them away. Yes we all agree that neutering is the best course of action but many people don't or haven't got round to it and accidents happen. We should be supporting those people not bullying and coercing them. its happened and i'm sure the OP feels bad enough already without having it continually rubbed in their face.
> 
> We don't live in a perfect world and cats have kittens end of. I am a caring and ethical breeder who adheres to all the proper procedures but being a registered breeder doesn't always make someone a great breeder, at the risk of being shot I know several breeders who I would absolutely never buy a kitten from but I know several of your so called BYB who aren't registered but are fantastic breeders.
> 
> To the OP if you are still reading there are people who care and will help support you through your cats pregnancy and birth. Yes it would have been better if she had been neutered but whats done is done. The vast majority of cats do have normal pregnancies and give birth without problems (in 40+ births I have never needed a c-section, only 1 girl needed an injection once to stimulate contractions). The majority of kittens too are born healthy without problems but if you need help then please come back.


Well said Chloe -- welcome to the forum!

Lovely to have your well balanced, realistic POV -- I do hope you will stick around -- the forum needs members like you.


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

Thanks, hopefully can offer help where I can. I currently have 12 Maine Coons so think I have some experience to pass on. Have 3 girls due within 4 days of each other beginning of May so will share my own birth experiences then!


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Oh my god 3 girls due within 4 days of each other how on earth do you do that? You will be very busy then.


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

chloe1975 said:


> Thanks, hopefully can offer help where I can. I currently have 12 Maine Coons so think I have some experience to pass on. Have 3 girls due within 4 days of each other beginning of May so will share my own birth experiences then!


_that sounds interesting, you will have to make your own thread so we can follow the births, you will have to let us know what colours your expecting,we have alot of maine coon fans on here, ...._


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

colliemerles said:


> _that sounds interesting, you will have to make your own thread so we can follow the births, you will have to let us know what colours your expecting,we have alot of maine coon fans on here, ...._


Mmmm we do dont we but ive allready bagged polo when your ready to part lol.


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

colliemerles said:


> _that sounds interesting, you will have to make your own thread so we can follow the births, you will have to let us know what colours your expecting,we have alot of maine coon fans on here, ...._


yes will do- expecting blues (solid and tabby), reds, brown tabbies and torties between the 3 of them so quite a mix!


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

They all sound lovely when can i have 1 ha ha.


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## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

chloe1975 said:


> I joined this forum as I felt it would be helpful and informative and that having been a registered cat breeder for more than 10 years I could impart some of my knowledge and help to other people when they need it. However since looking here all I see are threads where cats have got accidently pregnant and then pages of bullying and lambasted by other posters about why did they let the cat out, get it neutered etc etc. Surely this place is supposed to be about helping people not driving them away. Yes we all agree that neutering is the best course of action but many people don't or haven't got round to it and accidents happen. We should be supporting those people not bullying and coercing them. its happened and i'm sure the OP feels bad enough already without having it continually rubbed in their face.
> 
> We don't live in a perfect world and cats have kittens end of. I am a caring and ethical breeder who adheres to all the proper procedures but being a registered breeder doesn't always make someone a great breeder, at the risk of being shot I know several breeders who I would absolutely never buy a kitten from but I know several of your so called BYB who aren't registered but are fantastic breeders.
> 
> To the OP if you are still reading there are people who care and will help support you through your cats pregnancy and birth. Yes it would have been better if she had been neutered but whats done is done. The vast majority of cats do have normal pregnancies and give birth without problems (in 40+ births I have never needed a c-section, only 1 girl needed an injection once to stimulate contractions). The majority of kittens too are born healthy without problems but if you need help then please come back.


A belated warm welcome to the forum!!!
I am sure your experience will be greatly valued, as will pictures of your cats.
We have many Maine Coon fans here!!


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## Meezey (Jan 29, 2013)

chloe1975 said:


> yes will do- expecting blues (solid and tabby), reds, brown tabbies and torties between the 3 of them so quite a mix!


ohhh blue tabby :001_tt1:


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Chloe i think you should start a thread as this could go on for a while lol. P.s where in the west midlands are you?


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## chloe1975 (Mar 17, 2013)

tigerboo said:


> Chloe i think you should start a thread as this could go on for a while lol. P.s where in the west midlands are you?


south staffordshire


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

Oh your not to far either.


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## Cats cats cats (Feb 4, 2011)

chloe1975 said:


> Thanks, hopefully can offer help where I can. I currently have 12 Maine Coons so think I have some experience to pass on. Have 3 girls due within 4 days of each other beginning of May so will share my own birth experiences then!


I'm looking forward to you introducing yourself and all your coonies  I have a little coonie, he's just 8.5 months old :001_wub:

Sorry .....somewhat off topic


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## tigerboo (Jan 30, 2013)

I dont suppose any one has heard off the op?


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Well, I don't understand it. When I was a student, I was given an abandoned kitten (against my will because I didn't have much money). In those days, there was no internet. My parents were also the type who didn't worry much about neutering/spaying (the cat I had as a child was an unneutered tom). In spite of also being a typical shallow and ditzy student, I still had the kitten neutered at 3 months, and all my subsequent cats have been neutered or spayed as soon as they were old enough. Bugger "first call" and all that. 
Nobody "told" me this. I simply earned enough money through waitressing and had it done. Surely it is common sense? Cats have sex and have kittens, like humans have babies.   
This, plus after a number of years volunteering for rescue, I am left with a sneaking suspicion that "accidental" pregnancies happen - conciously or subconciously on the part of the owner - for the following reasons:

1. Secret wish for "cute kittens" by cat owner
2. Laziness ("slapgat")
3. Stinginess

When the inevitable happens, then it's the usual excuses: "vet said so"/ "the devil made me do it"\ "I didn't know"/ "my child/auntie/OH/drunken roommate let the cat out"/ "she is indoors only and never goes out"/ "I am opposed [suddenly ] to abortion"/etc-bloody-etc

You can shoot me down, but I think I am right.


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## YorkshireMuppet (Mar 22, 2013)

koekemakranka said:


> Well, I don't understand it. When I was a student, I was given an abandoned kitten (against my will because I didn't have much money). In those days, there was no internet. My parents were also the type who didn't worry much about neutering/spaying (the cat I had as a child was an unneutered tom). In spite of also being a typical shallow and ditzy student, I still had the kitten neutered at 3 months, and all my subsequent cats have been neutered or spayed as soon as they were old enough. Bugger "first call" and all that.
> Nobody "told" me this. I simply earned enough money through waitressing and had it done. Surely it is common sense? Cats have sex and have kittens, like humans have babies.
> This, plus after a number of years volunteering for rescue, I am left with a sneaking suspicion that "accidental" pregnancies happen - conciously or subconciously on the part of the owner - for the following reasons:
> 
> ...


Would you like a tea/coffee or hot chocolate?


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## cats galore (Jul 17, 2012)

tigerboo said:


> I dont suppose any one has heard off the op?


ignore me. i got mixed up with someone else. sorry


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

JordanRose said:


> I've just gone off what Kittenfostermummy said
> 
> FC makes sense, as she had been a pregnant stray- she would most likely have been very stressed!
> 
> ...


Def fever coat, the black heads are a give away x


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

wow disappear nursing kittens for a few days and miss 13 pages of this... 

one things that gets me is the cost of a pregnant spay, are there any charities out there that assist with this. Bonnie was a different kettle of fish as she had pregnant pyo but £300 later to have her spayed, this price alone would discourage the spay of ooppss litters


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## Toby Tyler (Feb 17, 2013)

Agree about the cost being prohibitive, but really have _yet _to hear anyone actually bring it up as a reason they wouldn't/didn't do a pregnant spay. That speaks volumes as to how much it was ever even considered in the first place


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Depends how pregnant the cat is. Just after coming out of heat - the same as a normal spay. The vet won't be able to tell there is anything unusual about her. And even at £300, have you worked out how much it costs to rear a litter of 5 kittens to 13 weeks including vet check & innoculations? £300 is a bargain.


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## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Looking at all the current birthing threads, I cannot in good conscience imagine putting a beloved cat through a pregnancy and birth for my own pleasure if I had a choice....... It seems a pretty grim business, regadless of how "natural" it is.


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## Lucy1012 (May 23, 2010)

OrientalSlave said:


> Depends how pregnant the cat is. Just after coming out of heat - the same as a normal spay. The vet won't be able to tell there is anything unusual about her. And even at £300, have you worked out how much it costs to rear a litter of 5 kittens to 13 weeks including vet check & innoculations? £300 is a bargain.


I know that and you know that, but if they have refrained from spaying as they can't afford to, then £300 is not going to seem appealing. Bonnie was 3 weeks in.


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