# PF's Obese Dogs!



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

I don't know about anyone else but it really pees me off when people on this forum have clearly obese dogs. Understandable if it's a new rescue but for people who have had the dogs for a long time... A lot of people on this forum constantly tell us how much they love their dogs and they agree it's important not to feed bakers and blah blah - yet happily overfeed their dogs.

Hello diabetes, arthritis etc. etc.

C'mon guys get your acts together


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Mmm often thought this myself, but difficult to comment without pointing the finger. So have kept mouth shut


----------



## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Totally agree, but wouldn't comment for fear of being accused of causing trouble.


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

i must walk around with my eyes closed lol as i dont ever see them! Mine can look chunky from certain angles because they have large chests and short legs lol! but they are prefect


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Daynna said:


> i must walk around with my eyes closed lol as i dont ever see them! Mine can look chunky from certain angles because they have large chests and short legs lol! but they are prefect


I haven't seen any photos of yours apart from your sig so I wasn't talking about yours lol


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I do hate to see obese dogs and obesity as a result of too much indulgence is tantamount to abuse in my book BUT I do try and take a balanced view and remember that some may be obese due to medical reasons. I do also think that we are very used to seeing obese dogs in society; I am often told that Kilo is skinny - yet I think he is lean and like him this way - by folk who have what I would class as fat dogs (no one on here by the way...when we are out and about!).

When I see photos on here and think a dog is obese I don't comment on the weight for fear of causing offense.


----------



## 8tansox (Jan 29, 2010)

Photographs can be deceiving though, I have one photograph of Fletcher, let's just say it's not the best picture I have of him, yet he looks to be a big chap, but he's only 42kg - nothing at all for a 4 year old male Rottweiler.

Saying that though, to be honest I've not noticed any chubby pooches, but that's not to say they're not here, probably me just not seeing them!:


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

Shrap said:


> I haven't seen any photos of yours apart from your sig so I wasn't talking about yours lol


I know lol I dont ever really put picks on maybe i should


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Hope you don't mean Bob, who's been on a diet for the last 3 months, I found feeding him dry food was making him gain weight so I changed to raw & it's helped with his weight loss


----------



## Colette (Jan 2, 2010)

I'm with you in principle (though I haven't really noticed any obese dogs on here so not sure exactly what you're referring to). 

I'm just getting annoyed with my family at the mo because Solo is getting decidedly podgy and there seems to be sod all I can do about it (I don't live there any more and nothing I say seems to make a difference).

When we got him we agreed no treats (except in training and chews), no sharing mels with him, etc. He got plenty of exercise, we swapped him from the average food he was on to Orijen dry with a little raw mince... but it just didn't stick.

My stepdad is the worst - he not only insists on sharing everything he eats (including burgers, cheese on toast, etc) but we're talking a human mouthful here and Solo is only a wee bichon! My nan isn't much better.

And his exercise has dropped considerably.

I feel sorry for my mum in all this as she's doing the best she can but the others are making it impossible. 

The exercise issue is because my stepdad is paranoid and won't let her walk Solo alone after dark - which is all the time she has now that she's back at work. I mean she can't even take him out at 7pm. He does occassionally go with her or walk Solo on his own during the day but I'd say he's getting less than half the exercise he was used to - plus double the junk food. If he was working full time too I could understand it more (no excuse tho) but he doesn't - he just can't be bothered.

I have brought the issue up a few times - pointed out how much trouble Tily had with her joints and that Solo could end up the same; pointed out how devastated they were when the vet picked up on the supposed minor heart murmer he has - that they will potentially exaccerbate. No good. Also pointed out that he is a pain in the bum when he doesn't get a decent walk - but that doesn't matter cos its only mum he spends the evening harassing.

Bit miffed with the vets too tbh; every time they go in there the vet says he is a healthy weight. Sure, for a lab maybe!! My stepdad is just blind to it - he honestly doesn't believe Solo is overweight, and now he thinks he must be right cos the vet agrees. Grrr.... :mad5:

Sorry - only sort of on topic but guess I needed to vent.


----------



## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

I was just about to do a thread asking if people thought Flint was getting too big.I don't think I will now.:frown2:


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

cravensmum said:


> I was just about to do a thread asking if people thought Flint was getting too big.I don't think I will now.:frown2:


Don't be silly, he can't possibly be obese yet and if you ask he won't will he? 
I'll tell you if he's too fat :001_tt2:


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

cravensmum said:


> I was just about to do a thread asking if people thought Flint was getting too big.I don't think I will now.:frown2:


I don't think most people mean a little too big (I certainly don't) but obese....to be honest those who know and are addressing the issue are not a problem I don't think. I wouldn't comment on weight unless asked as ultimately it is none of my business how people want to keep their dogs, but I do have my own private opinions on the matter when I see some pics as I'm sure others do about my dog.


----------



## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I dont remember seeing any obese dogs, now Im getting all paranoid though and wondering if its my two


----------



## H0lly (Jan 31, 2010)

I am forever being told the opposite and that Dora is skinny, I don't think she is, Like Dogless said i prefer the term lean and healthy  , Saying that i have not seen any obese dogs on here, but i might not be paying much attention


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Dogless said:


> I do hate to see obese dogs and obesity as a result of too much indulgence is tantamount to abuse in my book BUT I do try and take a balanced view and remember that some may be obese due to medical reasons. I do also think that we are very used to seeing obese dogs in society; I am often told that Kilo is skinny - yet I think he is lean and like him this way - by folk who have what I would class as fat dogs (no one on here by the way...when we are out and about!).
> 
> When I see photos on here and think a dog is obese I don't comment on the weight for fear of causing offense.


The dogs I'm thinking of I know don't have medical issues. From your sig pic he looks perfect. I like a lean dog too.



Daynna said:


> I know lol I dont ever really put picks on maybe i should


I like that idea 



simplysardonic said:


> Hope you don't mean Bob, who's been on a diet for the last 3 months, I found feeding him dry food was making him gain weight so I changed to raw & it's helped with his weight loss


I haven't seen pics lol  And brilliant you switched to raw!



Colette said:


> I'm with you in principle (though I haven't really noticed any obese dogs on here so not sure exactly what you're referring to).
> 
> I'm just getting annoyed with my family at the mo because Solo is getting decidedly podgy and there seems to be sod all I can do about it (I don't live there any more and nothing I say seems to make a difference).
> 
> ...


I don't want to embarass anyone so would never name names on here lol. That sounds like an utterly crap situation and I'd be very annoyed  It took me so long to stop my mum feeding the cats whiskas and even then the odd box still appears!



cravensmum said:


> I was just about to do a thread asking if people thought Flint was getting too big.I don't think I will now.:frown2:


Lol let us see. I don't mind anyone who is wondering if he's getting a bit big and wants to do something about it.. It's just the people who have gone WAY past that, dog no longer has any kind of waist or tuck up... Show us a pic  Pleeeeasse :001_wub:


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Dogless said:


> I don't think most people mean a little too big (I certainly don't) but obese....to be honest those who know and are addressing the issue are not a problem I don't think. I wouldn't comment on weight unless asked as ultimately it is none of my business how people want to keep their dogs, but I do have my own private opinions on the matter when I see some pics as I'm sure others do about my dog.


Kilo looks fantastic IMO, I like a leaner looking dog, the girls are lean but Bob's just not quite there yet
I can't say I've seen any obese dogs on here though


----------



## Mophie (Sep 20, 2011)

I don't think I've actually noticed any obese dogs on here I must also be lurking the forum blindly. 

I'm from the same camp as Dogless and H0lly - I am actually paranoid people will think Donnie is being starving when we go out, because as certain points on his body you can see his bones but he's bloody heavy for a boy who isn't that tall at all.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

simplysardonic said:


> Kilo looks fantastic IMO, I like a leaner looking dog, the girls are lean but Bob's just not quite there yet
> I can't say I've seen any obese dogs on here though


That is very kind of you but I do know that we all have our opinions of what is acceptable and not. There are a few dogs on here who I do think look overweight, but those same folk probably think some of the leaner dogs look underweight. As long as the weight isn't extreme (either way) enough to cause harm to the dogs then sometimes it is a matter of opinion. There is a ridgie here (not PF - real life!!) who makes me feel sad as she is a tubster and has lost that lovely athletic quality they have....but her owner thinks Kilo is too thin and hates to see muscle definition so....horses for courses in some cases I think!


----------



## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

Shrap said:


> Lol let us see. I don't mind anyone who is wondering if he's getting a bit big and wants to do something about it.. It's just the people who have gone WAY past that, dog no longer has any kind of waist or tuck up... Show us a pic  Pleeeeasse :001_wub:


I think the problem with Flint is that he has a huge manhood,way out of proportion to his body and in some pictures he can look fatter than he should be.I have cut his portions down slightly and he does eat as much as Craven,but then Craven has never been a big eater.:confused5:


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Dogless said:


> That is very kind of you but I do know that we all have our opinions of what is acceptable and not. There are a few dogs on here who I do think look overweight, but those same folk probably think some of the leaner dogs look underweight. As long as the weight isn't extreme (either way) enough to cause harm to the dogs then sometimes it is a matter of opinion. There is a ridgie here (not PF - real life!!) who makes me feel sad as she is a tubster and has lost that lovely athletic quality they have....but her owner thinks Kilo is too thin and hates to see muscle definition so....horses for courses in some cases I think!


Yeah I don't mean just a little tubby.. Properly fat  I've seen a few.

Also, this is probably for another thread, but it annoys me when members promote bad breeding off the forum


----------



## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Some dogs have deceptively thick coats


----------



## H0lly (Jan 31, 2010)

I personally think he looks perfect size, and has a nice shape about him. I agree that his "manhood" makes his underbelly look larger


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

cravensmum said:


> I think the problem with Flint is that he has a huge manhood,way out of proportion to his body and in some pictures he can look fatter than he should be.I have cut his portions down slightly and he does eat as much as Craven,but then Craven has never been a big eater.:confused5:


He doesn't look too big to me tbh! He could lose a little without being underweight but equally if he were to get ill (god forbid) and stopped eating you would have that little extra bit there for him. He's a nice healthy weight IMO


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Flint looks fine to me .


----------



## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Totally honest now folks, I would rather know, do my two look ok?


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

cravensmum said:


> I think the problem with Flint is that he has a huge manhood,way out of proportion to his body and in some pictures he can look fatter than he should be.I have cut his portions down slightly and he does eat as much as Craven,but then Craven has never been a big eater.:confused5:
> 
> He's a completely different hound to Craven
> If you look up their types, Flint although a slightly smaller hound should look a little more thickset.
> ...


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

westie~ma said:


> Some dogs have deceptively thick coats


Lol I hadn't seen that pic, it's not the kind of pic I would base an opinion on! Light makes it very difficult to see, and it's far away, and a bad angle for judging weight lol


----------



## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

thedogsmother said:


> Totally honest now folks, I would rather know, do my two look ok?


They look sad and half starved


----------



## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

JennyClifford said:


> They look sad and half starved


Phew, thats the look I was going for


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

TDM your beasties look fine to me (although I am rubbish at knowing what dogs with longer coats should look like ).


----------



## cravensmum (Jun 28, 2010)

JennyClifford said:


> Oh by the way.
> When is he going on your profile page?


Oooops now


----------



## BeagleOesx (Oct 9, 2009)

:yikes: We're all paranoid now


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

BeagleOesx said:


> :yikes: We're all paranoid now


Definitely :.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Pictures can be deceptive though. 








At the time that photo was taken the vet was so concerned about Ruperts weight that he'd threatened me with the RSPCA. I had a blazing row with him and told him if he wanted Rupert eating more he could bloody well take him home and force feed him because that was the only way it was going to happen  He weighed 25kgs and his hips, ribs and spine jutted out. He's currently 35kgs, his ribs are easily felt and he has an obvious waist and tuck up. Yet on some photos he looks obese.

I really do hate to see obese dogs though


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

BeagleOesx said:


> :yikes: We're all paranoid now


And so you should be 

TDM your doggles look great  Though it's difficult to tell with the long coats isn't it. I can never tell by looking at Dino, always feel his ribs, waist and hips.


----------



## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Shrap said:


> Lol I hadn't seen that pic, it's not the kind of pic I would base an opinion on! Light makes it very difficult to see, and it's far away, and a bad angle for judging weight lol


It's a larger version of my avatar and he had a full coat before being groomed 

Sadly, David Bailey wasn't available to tag along on our dog walk that day :lol:


----------



## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

thedogsmother said:


> Totally honest now folks, I would rather know, do my two look ok?


Fab!!! :thumbup1:


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

westie~ma said:


> It's a larger version of my avatar and he had a full coat before being groomed
> 
> Sadly, David Bailey wasn't available to tag along on our dog walk that day :lol:


Lol! I didn't mean it like that  It's a lovely photo of your pooch


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Opinions on Bob please, these are before we switched to raw & he was still on AG, he's lost 4kgs since then & I'd like to see another 4 off him, which would make him 44kgs, our vet is unsure what would be his ideal weight as he's a crossbreed & larger than an average pedigree Rottweiler. He always looks fat to me when he's lying down


----------



## BeagleOesx (Oct 9, 2009)

Shrap said:


> *And so you should be *
> 
> TDM your doggles look great  Though it's difficult to tell with the long coats isn't it. I can never tell by looking at Dino, always feel his ribs, waist and hips.


 OMG it's bad enough checking pics of me before I let anyone see them without having to check the dogs as well to make sure they don't look 'big in this' :lol::lol: Poor Willow looks big with all her fur but underneath it she's as skinny as they come and could really do to put some meat on her.


----------



## SophieCyde (Oct 24, 2010)

I think I'm navigating the forum blindfolded , I never see any obese dogs 

Unless its murphy and I'm blinded by love


----------



## missnaomi (Jun 4, 2010)

thedogsmother said:


> Totally honest now folks, I would rather know, do my two look ok?


I think they look fine - how old is Bella? My Rosie about 19 months old, and she's quite a bit lighter looking - I can feel her ribs, sometimes I worry that I can feel them too much...maybe she's too skinny cos Bella seems fine...I don't really have any pictures of her just standing...it's difficult to tell from photo's cos Bella might just be bigger and chunkier, and Hendrix definitely seems so.










I just go on if I can see a definite waist from above and from the side and feel their ribs...then they're probably ok. Ringo's really muscular and tank like, but he has a waist and a skinny tummy and I can feel his ribs easily...I do like them lean and fit though - but they get tons of exercise, when Ringo wasn't able to go for walks for a few weeks I had to really cut down his food cos he got chunky really quickly...I think a dog who spent most of the day indoors would need to be watched very closely...

Naomi


----------



## Mophie (Sep 20, 2011)

@ simplysardonic: I think your about right for the weight your aiming for with Bob - I've got the same issue I don't know what my pooch should weigh because he's bigger than staffy and EBT but smaller than a boxer. Rather than weight I use a birds eye view of a "healthy" sized dog on the natures menu website


----------



## Kinjilabs (Apr 15, 2009)

Obviously I dont get on here enough

Never seen one yet


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

simplysardonic said:


> Opinions on Bob please, these are before we switched to raw & he was still on AG, he's lost 4kgs since then & I'd like to see another 4 off him, which would make him 44kgs, our vet is unsure what would be his ideal weight as he's a crossbreed & larger than an average pedigree Rottweiler. He always looks fat to me when he's lying down


It's impossible to tell lying down but I would get a few more kg off judging on the standing pic if he was mine; he certainly isn't gigantic though!!


----------



## LexiLou2 (Mar 15, 2011)

I think sometime you can get hung up on it.....I was determined to give Lexi the pefect 'tuck' as I saw a pic of a staffie with an amazing shape, so put Lexi on a diet.....you could see her last 3 ribs on each side and 4 of her vertebrae on her back........but no perfect 'tuck'. She is lean she has muscle definition she is within her ideal weight bracket but her tummy still doesn't tuck she resembles a little barrel.
Bosley on the otherhand......amazing tuck!!!!


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

LexiLou2 said:


> I think sometime you can get hung up on it.....I was determined to give Lexi the pefect 'tuck' as I saw a pic of a staffie with an amazing shape, so put Lexi on a diet.....you could see her last 3 ribs on each side and 4 of her vertebrae on her back........but no perfect 'tuck'. She is lean she has muscle definition she is within her ideal weight bracket but her tummy still doesn't tuck she resembles a little barrel.
> Bosley on the otherhand......amazing tuck!!!!


You definitely can; I am always looking at Kilo's shape! Lexi looked perfect to me when I met her...


----------



## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

missnaomi said:


> I think they look fine - how old is Bella? My


Shes about 19 months, shes actually about a kilo lighter now than she was in that picture but I dont think she looks any different really. My last dog (also gsd) was always worryingly underweight, he just wasnt that interested in food, I used to free feed Henrick as he was a bit the same but since Bella arrived I have to feed them actual weighed meals as she loves her food a bit too much .


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

simplysardonic said:


> Opinions on Bob please, these are before we switched to raw & he was still on AG, he's lost 4kgs since then & I'd like to see another 4 off him, which would make him 44kgs, our vet is unsure what would be his ideal weight as he's a crossbreed & larger than an average pedigree Rottweiler. He always looks fat to me when he's lying down


He looks so comfy there, it's making me sleepy lol 

Yeah in the standing photo I would get a few Kgs off and review.. He's not obese in it though!


----------



## SophieCyde (Oct 24, 2010)

I think murphy is a healthy size , but I'm not 100% sure 









he often looks a lot bigger when his fur is longer ,










so I hope he isn't one of them


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

LexiLou2 said:


> I think sometime you can get hung up on it.....I was determined to give Lexi the pefect 'tuck' as I saw a pic of a staffie with an amazing shape, so put Lexi on a diet.....you could see her last 3 ribs on each side and 4 of her vertebrae on her back........but no perfect 'tuck'. She is lean she has muscle definition she is within her ideal weight bracket but her tummy still doesn't tuck she resembles a little barrel.
> Bosley on the otherhand......amazing tuck!!!!


That's the word I was looking for, Bob hasn't got an amazing 'tuck' at all & I doubt he ever will have, although I don't know his full history as he was a rescue he was 99% likely to have come from an awful breeder so who knows what the conformation of his parents would have been like


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Shrap said:


> *He looks so comfy there, it's making me sleepy lol *
> 
> Yeah in the standing photo I would get a few Kgs off and review.. He's not obese in it though!


That's pretty much his favourite position to be in (or on my bed), I have to _make_ him run when we're out by playing fetch, or he'd stick at my pace the whole time


----------



## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

For those that don't know how to assess visually and by touch if a dog is an ideal weight here are a few pointers.

Step 1
Look at the dog's ribs. When you feel for the ribs, you should be able to feel each individual rib, with a thin layer of fat over the bone. If you can see each rib, the dog is too thin; if you cannot feel any ribs at all, the dog is too heavy.
Make a fist with your hand. Now feel the back of your hand.
This is what your dogs ribs will feel like if your dog is over weight. Notice you can not really feel each individual bone in your hand. In contrast if your dog is over weight you will not be able to feel each rib easily either.
Once again while your hand is in a fist feel across your knuckles.
This is what your dogs ribs will feel like if your dog is under weight. Notice that you can easily feel each individual knuckle and the dip inbetween. In contrast if your dog is too skinny you will be able to feel each individual rib and the space inbetween.
Now while your hand is still in a fist, feel across the top of your fingers (the flat long bones below the knuckles).
This is what your dogs ribs should feel like if your dog is the right weight. Notice that you can still feel each individual finger bone but not a major dip inbetween. In contrast if your dog is the right weight you should be able to feel each rib but not each space in between.

Step 2
Check the dog's back near the base of the tail. There will be a little fat covering the area. This is a sign of a healthy dog. Again, if you can actually see the bone sticking out, the dog is too thin; if you are unable to locate any bones while feeling the area, the dog is too heavy.

Step 3
Feel around the dog's spine, hips and shoulders. Like the ribs, these should be covered in a thin layer of fat, but you should still be able to locate them with your hand. If these bones stick out and are not covered in that thin layer of fat, the dog is too thin. If those bones are hidden from view and you cannot locate them by feeling around, the dog is overweight.

Step 4
Look at the dog from above. There should be a noticeable taper at the base of the ribs that widens at the hips. The dog should have an "hourglass figure," so to speak. This is a healthy dog. If the ribs are too visible, or if the body doesn't taper between the hips and ribs, the dog is an unhealthy weight.

Step 5
Look at the dog from the side. Like the taper from above, from the side the dog should have a smaller diameter around the waist than around the ribs. Several types of dogs have a very distinct abdominal tuck; with others you have to look a little more closely.


----------



## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Shrap said:


> Lol! I didn't mean it like that  It's a lovely photo of your pooch


I know you didn't  all mine are taken with my phone so aren't brilliant quality just for my memory/keepsakes 

Right, been looking for more recent ones, here's my chap at the end of November (he got cut on 7th nov) ...


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

This is about the best picture I have of Rupert at his current weight. In most of my pics he's either sitting or in a position where there's no way on earth you could judge whether he's fat or not.










I think he's about right as he is now. A couple of days not eating wouldn't reduce him to skin and bones like it used to but at the same time he's slim enough that he has a waist and I can feel his ribs easily. Don't even get me started on how much he eats though, all I can say is I wish I had his metabolism  Oh, and the stuff sticking out around his harness is fur, not flab :lol:


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I have never seen an obese dog on here. What an odd thing to say. Most of the dogs look in lovely condition.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Sarah1983 said:


> This is about the best picture I have of Rupert at his current weight. In most of my pics he's either sitting or in a position where there's no way on earth you could judge whether he's fat or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds like Kilo - eats a lot but hard to keep weight on (I have often wished my metabolism was similar too )....although he does run and run when offlead!! I think this is my most recent from sideways on:


----------



## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

OllieBob said:


> For those that don't know how to assess visually and by touch if a dog is an ideal weight here are a few pointers.
> 
> Step 1
> Look at the dog's ribs. When you feel for the ribs, you should be able to feel each individual rib, with a thin layer of fat over the bone. If you can see each rib, the dog is too thin; if you cannot feel any ribs at all, the dog is too heavy.
> ...


Just gone to feel Mony's ribs but he kept rolling over for a belly rub :lol: :lol:


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

westie~ma said:


> Just gone to feel Mony's ribs but he kept rolling over for a belly rub :lol: :lol:


I'm sitting here feeling the back of my hand & then feeling Bob's ribs, one of my neuroses is weight & I'm neurotic now


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Blitz said:


> I have never seen an obese dog on here. What an odd thing to say. Most of the dogs look in lovely condition.


Maybe you haven't the same photo threads that I have  I can assure you it's not a particularly odd thing to say if you think there are certain dogs who are more than overweight. We are on a pet forum after all. And I'm not the only one who has seen fat dogs on the forum!


----------



## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

westie~ma said:


> I know you didn't  all mine are taken with my phone so aren't brilliant quality just for my memory/keepsakes
> 
> Right, been looking for more recent ones, here's my chap at the end of November (he got cut on 7th nov) ...


Now that is one sexy westie!!!!!!!

I am actually in a postition at the moment where I am happy with all the dogs weights for once.
Willow dropped her 3kg to get to her perfect 34.9kg 
Percy isnt too skinny for once and has great muscle tone.
Rocky is on the slight side but nothing to be concerned about.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

OllieBob said:


> For those that don't know how to assess visually and by touch if a dog is an ideal weight here are a few pointers.
> 
> Step 1
> Look at the dog's ribs. When you feel for the ribs, you should be able to feel each individual rib, with a thin layer of fat over the bone. If you can see each rib, the dog is too thin; if you cannot feel any ribs at all, the dog is too heavy.
> ...


What if you're fat yourself?


----------



## Thorne (May 11, 2009)

I've seen a couple of podgy dogs on here but none that I'd call obese (certainly not in comparison to my Nan's old Collie x, he used to visit the next-door neighbour for leftovers and lager! ).
Confident that my two are a healthy weight, Breeze has always been a bit funny about fluctuating but we think we've cracked it now.

If anyone's concerned or curious about their dog's weight, this condition score chart might be useful: Body Condition Scoring Chart | College of Veterinary Medicine


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

And a chart for those who like a visual.
Dog Weight Chart « Dogs 4 Point Pleasant Park

Dogless, Rupert's a lazy so and so, I think he'd waste away if he were active! Even off leash he mostly just potters about. He's had blood work done a few times due to his weight problems but it's always come back normal.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Sarah1983 said:


> And a chart for those who like a visual.
> Dog Weight Chart « Dogs 4 Point Pleasant Park
> 
> Dogless, Rupert's a lazy so and so, I think he'd waste away if he were active! Even off leash he mostly just potters about. He's had blood work done a few times due to his weight problems but it's always come back normal.


In the house for the majority of his day Kilo is the laziest dog on the planet - but really comes to life : when we go running or he gets a walk.

Maybe some of Rupert's propensity to loose weight is due to the stresses that he experiences on walks when faced with offlead dogs running at him etc? I think he is a gorgeous looking dog BTW!


----------



## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

Oh no now I'm worrying!!! The problem I have is Tummel has a rotties behind with a ridgebacks massive chest and knowing he's got lab in him too I literally have no idea of a good weight apart from it could be anywhere between 25 and 55+kg!!!! We know he's over 40kg but don't have an exact weight so I feed him sparingly and make sure he gets a good run every day to keep fit 

I think Tummels in good shape, I can feel his pelvis and the back end of his spine easily but they don't jut out, he has really good muscle tone and he has a lovely waist....the only issue I have is his chest, Tummel has a load of excess skin to grow into which makes feeling them a bit tricky but if I lift the skin up he's fine


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Dogless said:


> In the house for the majority of his day Kilo is the laziest dog on the planet - but really comes to life : when we go running or he gets a walk.
> 
> Maybe some of Rupert's propensity to loose weight is due to the stresses that he experiences on walks when faced with offlead dogs running at him etc? I think he is a gorgeous looking dog BTW!


Thanks, I kinda like him too :biggrin: It was love at first sight when I walked into the shelter.

I think a lot of his weight problems are due to stress. At home he's fairly chilled out but the outside world is full of monsters that might spring up at any time from any place. Maybe he just burns the calories off with nervous energy or something. He very rarely runs unless he's chasing his next meal :lol:


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

ballybee said:


> Oh no now I'm worrying!!! The problem I have is Tummel has a rotties behind with a ridgebacks massive chest and knowing he's got lab in him too I literally have no idea of a good weight apart from it could be anywhere between 25 and 55+kg!!!! We know he's over 40kg but don't have an exact weight so I feed him sparingly and make sure he gets a good run every day to keep fit


I wouldn't worry about figuring out a good weight, just go by the dog you have in front of you and how he looks and feels  That's all I do. Even in pure bred dogs ideal weight varies.


----------



## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Mine was fat when you saw him


----------



## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

I met a fellow Dallie owner who stopped me and asked for my opinion on her dog. She had been told hers was over weight when I took off my boys coat,( he had been running), I think she was surprised how lean he was. I work hard to keep them this way.He is actually a bit leaner now, this photo was taken last year..I have been told he is skinny!

I felt reluctant to say I felt hers was overweight, I have not noticed any in particular on here .


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

hawksport said:


> Mine was fat when you saw him


I don't remember, I was too busy scratching his chin


----------



## Honey Bee (Mar 29, 2011)

I haven't seen any obese dogs in the forum either but then I haven't been around much lately. 

Although it doesn't apply to the forum two people have questioned Honey's weight in the last couple of days but they have said she is much too thin!!! I weighed her at the vets last week and she was 34 kgs, which I think is perfect for the condition she is in. We've been on Exmoor and going up and down steep 1 in 4 hills and she is very toned. (I am too :thumbup1 I would describe her as lean but you can't see her ribs. Last year she weighed 33.80 kgs and I considered her to be overweight as she was not nearly as fit. Just thought I'd mention it as muscle does weigh heavier than fat, as it does with people, so you need to bear this in mind. I think going by body condition is a much better way. 

As for the two people who said she is thin, they both have cocker spaniels and they are both very overweight and have been told to put their dogs on a diet!!! Don't really need to say more.


----------



## skyblue (Sep 15, 2010)

bruno's a little overweight,and thats my problem,he's on a diet which is fine...but when out i just cant get him to run,tyson manages now and again but not much..hes just happy to trot along at his own pace

when i took tyson for his booster the vet mentioned that he needs a diet,i asked why and it seems that he was overweight..so i asked where and the vet couldn't tell me...tyson,where hes an eating machine he also never stops running,hes all muscle...and hes a big dog


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Wow...way to get a person paranoid....certainly won't be sharing pics of my lot again as Tex is over weight by quite a bit, there is also a reason for this only I wasn't aware we each had to explain our dogs, but as I haven't one could assume that there is no reason....when in actual fact there is... but i just haven't broadcast it....and don't see that i should really as it's a pet forum, not a place where it's obligatory to tell all.
I'm sorry if this offends anyone and no it may not be bout any of mine, but the fact is, one of my dogs falls into the category of those who are being spoken of and i feel like removing all of my pics now t b h


----------



## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

Not every overweight dog is the fault of the owner. Kenya has gained a little weight in the last few years. I live with relatives that feed her treats and food because they think I don't feed her enough. :frown2: I've been trying to get her to an ideal weight.

I know someone that is trying to get their Collie to loose weight. The dog's diet with the previous owner was probably around 90% fast food. Dogs have come into the shelter as well with owner saying the dog's diet didn't include dog food or raw meat.


----------



## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> Wow...way to get a person paranoid....certainly won't be sharing pics of my lot again as Tex is over weight by quite a bit, there is also a reason for this only I wasn't aware we each had to explain our dogs, but as I haven't one could assume that there is no reason....when in actual fact there is... but i just haven't broadcast it....and don't see that i should really as it's a pet forum, not a place where it's obligatory to tell all.
> I'm sorry if this offends anyone and no it may not be bout any of mine, but the fact is, one of my dogs falls into the category of those who are being spoken of and i feel like removing all of my pics now t b h


Aww, don't feel you have to remove your photos 
Most posters on this thread have said (or liked, me included) that they haven't seen any obese dogs, just lovely looking/well cared for ones.

I'm a little paranoid, mainly cos my family tease me that my chap is way too fat but my vet has told me that his is fine and thats good enough for me. Also my lot don't take into consideration that Monty has an incredibly thick coat for a westie


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

It's a difficult one. Dog obesity in society is a problem and, like human obesity it's something which does offend if mentioned. Society in general though accepts overweight dogs as normal and there are health implications. Should we simply ignore the problem and if so what other problems should be ignored?

One of our dogs, Emma, at the moment is overweight and I will freely admit it. We are working on it. She is now slowly losing weight getting a mixture of reduced food and more exercise possible after my wife recovered from breaking her foot. Circumstances can play a role and we should not be judgemental.

Naturediet may be a useful link to those looking for what an overweight/obese dog looks like.


----------



## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

westie~ma said:


> Most posters on this thread have said (or liked, me included) that they haven't seen any obese dogs, just lovely looking/well cared for ones.(


I haven't seen any dogs on here that look extremely overweight either.


----------



## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

All three of my border collies are over the recommended weight for the breed ... but I can feel their ribs , they all have a waist , and my vet says they are in excellent condition

Can I join the paranoid club please cos now im wondering whether its my lot


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> Wow...way to get a person paranoid....certainly won't be sharing pics of my lot again as Tex is over weight by quite a bit, there is also a reason for this only I wasn't aware we each had to explain our dogs, but as I haven't one could assume that there is no reason....when in actual fact there is... but i just haven't broadcast it....and don't see that i should really as it's a pet forum, not a place where it's obligatory to tell all.
> I'm sorry if this offends anyone and no it may not be bout any of mine, but the fact is, one of my dogs falls into the category of those who are being spoken of and i feel like removing all of my pics now t b h


Well... If you'd rather we all ignore the problem in case one person gets offended? I did already mention the dogs I was talking about I know for a fact don't have medical conditions causing the problem. I would be interested to know though, what medical conditions there are that can cause such a drastic gain in weight, and that can't be controlled through diet, exercise and/or medicine? I have not seen any pics of tex other than his face so I can assure you, I wasn't talking about him either.

And yes, it is a pet forum, you have shared your pictures and by doing so have left them open to judgement, as have I, and everyone else. Is it only alright for people to pass judgement when it suits you, and when they're saying something nice?


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I agree with the exceptionally thick coat comment as Mals have a very dense wooly undercoat which is deceiving. That's why you have to be very careful with anaesthetics as they often look heavier than they are and don't actually carry much fat. Anyone with a Mal will tell you how we often think they may be a bit overweight only to find ourselves saying they look at bit thin at coat blowing time, lol.

Have to say I have only seen one dog recently that I felt was overweight and that was an American Bulldog and even that was only slightly over weight and couldn't be considered obese by any stretch of the imagination.

*Obese* dogs on pf? I don't honestly think i've ever seen one! :confused5:

*Hypothyroidism* makes a dog gain weight very quickly and unless properly diagnosed the dog will continue to gain weight regardless of how much you potentially starve it. It has nothing to do with food intake at all as to why the dog gains weight as it's completely hormonal.


----------



## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

Shrap said:


> What if you're fat yourself?


Lol, I was thinking this as I was stroking the back of my hand and thinking "Hmmm..." .

I can't remember seeing any on here but I try not to judge a dog unless I see it in person as photos can be decieving. I also don't think too much on long haired dogs as they can look obese but actually just be a furball . You never really know unless you meet the dog in person and give it a good feel!

Tbh I get the opposite with Mia, I really struggle to put weight on her and the madam is currently off her food which will probably undo all the good work I've managed to do recently . I've had a few people speak sharply to me about her weight previously as they obviously think I mistreat her or something! It's always annoying when that happens as they just judge without actually asking about it first. Some dogs are just naturally very lean I guess and some ae predisposed to getting fat. You just have to be a responsible owner and work with what you've got.

The vet says she is absolutely perfect weight wise but I still think she is too lean .

What do others think?









As you can see her ribs are visible when she is on the move.What is the deal with that? Are you actually supposed to be able to see any? I always thought not but people say you should see the back ones. It's difficult because Mia has a very thin coat and skin so you can see everything! She has a VERY tucked waist.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Set_Nights said:


> Lol, I was thinking this as I was stroking the back of my hand and thinking "Hmmm..." .
> 
> I can't remember seeing any on here but I try not to judge a dog unless I see it in person as photos can be decieving. I also don't think too much on long haired dogs as they can look obese but actually just be a furball . You never really know unless you meet the dog in person and give it a good feel!
> 
> ...


I thought she looked perfect at the meet. I like to see the last couple of ribs on the move, depending on the breed though. Get her on the tripe if you want her to pack on a couple of extra pounds lol, but I personally don't think she needs it! She's beautiful :001_wub:


----------



## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

What bothers me is some vets are afraid to even mention that a dog is overweight because of possibly offending the person and loosing a client.


----------



## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

DogLover1981 said:


> What bothers me is some vets are afraid to even mention that a dog is overweight because of possibly offending the person and loosing a client.


My vet is one of those who tells it like it is , he doesnt totally dislike people , lets just say he prefers animals , which is A-OK in my book , lol


----------



## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

Malmum said:


> *Hypothyroidism* makes a dog gain weight very quickly and unless properly diagnosed the dog will continue to gain weight regardless of how much you potentially starve it. It has nothing to do with food intake at all as to why the dog gains weight as it's completely hormonal.


Without meaning to be cheeky, calories don't appear from magic fairy dust.

Hypothyroidism makes you put on weight much more easily as it knocks out your metabolism, but you still need to eat the calories to gain the weight. A dog that is being treated and on a proper diet should not gain weight, they just need to eat a lot less than a normal dog.

Edit: Although I would add that I know it is very hard to get weight off a dog once it is already there!


----------



## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Does anyone think my lot are overweight ?


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> Wow...way to get a person paranoid....certainly won't be sharing pics of my lot again as Tex is over weight by quite a bit, there is also a reason for this only I wasn't aware we each had to explain our dogs, but as I haven't one could assume that there is no reason....when in actual fact there is... but i just haven't broadcast it....and don't see that i should really as it's a pet forum, not a place where it's obligatory to tell all.
> I'm sorry if this offends anyone and no it may not be bout any of mine, but the fact is, one of my dogs falls into the category of those who are being spoken of and i feel like removing all of my pics now t b h


Don't be silly Clare, it's your dog and i'm sure it isn't massively fat, which is what I think of as obese, looking at some people. I wonder how many owners on here are actually obese - bet it's more than the dogs.  You certainly don't have to be offended about comments as it's not really anyone's business, not on a pet forum any way - I mean they are not the RSPCA telling you to get the dog in shape.

If people don't like how my dogs look then don't freaking look at them, I certainly wouldn't be intimidated by a busy body who doesn't even know the situation surrounding my dogs conditions.  And people putting up pics of skinny dogs asking do they look fat is ridiculous. Big pat on the back for stating the bleeding obvious!!


----------



## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

Shrap said:


> I thought she looked perfect at the meet. I like to see the last couple of ribs on the move, depending on the breed though. Get her on the tripe if you want her to pack on a couple of extra pounds lol, but I personally don't think she needs it! She's beautiful :001_wub:


Heh, thanks  I shall pass on the compliment.

I don't think she is dangerously underweight or anything but it is nice to have the security of a bit of padding incase they come down with something. The problem is partially that she is so active and running around like a nutter all day in the cold so she burns a LOT of calories. I was giving her an extra meal of tripe mix and sardines for a while but she seems to have lost her appetite this week and will only accept 2 meals  (although will still beg for cheese or meat!). Not long until we are visiting my parents for Xmas though and she will be spoilt rotten with treats and meat offcuts then so hopefully she'll fatten up then .


----------



## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

Mese said:


> Does anyone think my lot are overweight ?


The one in the middle definitely not, she (or he) looks very lean (in a good way). For the other 2 I have no idea as I don't do anything with real fur . They look fine to me though.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Disagree set_nights:

*What Happens If My Pet's Thyroid Gland Doesn't Produce Enough Thyroxine ?

It is common for pets with hypothyroidism to gain weight while only eating moderately. These dogs have been described as easy keepers because they gain weight so easily. *

Copied from Care of your hypothyroid dog.


----------



## BlueBeagle (Oct 27, 2011)

I find it hard to judge just by looking at some dogs. It is ok when a dog has a single short coat, then it is easy to see, my old dog was a Dobie x and I liked her lean so you could see the last couple of ribs and muscle definition.

My present dog has a thick double coat and to me she looks over weight but I can feel her ribs and see her waist so she should be ok. Just she looks bigger than she is. The same with my mum's Lab he looks good as she works hard to make sure he is a healthy looking dog but to me he used to look over weight until he went swimming and then he looks positively skinny. It is only now I have a dog with a double coat I can see how misleading simply looking at a dog is.

I am obviously not looking at the right thread either as I haven't seen any obese but I am totally unobservant


----------



## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Set_Nights said:


> The one in the middle definitely not, she (or he) looks very lean (in a good way). For the other 2 I have no idea as I don't do anything with real fur . They look fine to me though.


The one in the middle is my girl , Gypsy 
and as lean as she is she is still 1kg over the top weight for a BC girl , weird huh
All I can think is that all the exercise they get it must be muscle weight cos it sure aint fat , lol


----------



## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Have to agree with those who have said they haven't seen obese dogs on here! I genuinely can't recall seeing a single obese dog's photo being posted.

Even if there was, I think it would be better to educate than alienate an owner. Plus, there are a million and one different reasons, circumstances and genetics determining a dogs weight. No one is in a position to judge a dog they haven't met, touched and know all the details about, simple as.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Don't be silly Clare, it's your dog and i'm sure it isn't massively fat, which is what I think of as obese, looking at some people. I wonder how many owners on here are actually obese - bet it's more than the dogs.  You certainly don't have to be offended about comments as it's not really anyone's business, not on a pet forum any way - I mean they are not the RSPCA telling you to get the dog in shape.
> 
> If people don't like how my dogs look then don't freaking look at them, I certainly wouldn't be intimidated by a busy body who doesn't even know the situation surrounding my dogs conditions.  And people putting up pics of skinny dogs asking do they look fat is ridiculous. Big pat on the back for stating the bleeding obvious!!


Are you under the impression I'm talking about your dogs? And are you calling me a busy body for stating my annoyance at the blatant hypocrisy of some people on this forum? 
Do he RSPCA have more authority in your mind, than another dog lover?

I'm aware of the fact it's nobody else's business - hence me not naming names. However I'm definitely allowed to air my views on what annoys me


----------



## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Disagree set_nights:
> 
> *What Happens If My Pet's Thyroid Gland Doesn't Produce Enough Thyroxine ?
> 
> ...


Yes, even if they eat less than a normal dog should they still can put on weight, but that just means that "moderately" is still too much for them! Once treatment is being received that should be less of a problem but some dogs will need to be on a very carefully monitored diet for the rest of their lives.

No matter what condition your dog has (applies for humans too), weight management is ALWAYS a balance between energy input and energy expended. If you don't eat more than you are expending, you don't put on weight. The only difference for dogs (or people) with hyperthyroidism is that, unfortunately, their expendature is far less than normal due to artificially low metabolic rate and so they can only afford to eat small amounts.


----------



## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

Mese said:


> Does anyone think my lot are overweight ?


The middle one definitely isn't overweight. I can't tell with the other dogs because of the fur. Your border collies have gorgeous fur, BTW.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Marty has hypothyroidism and before diagnosis was on half the rations of Flynn but still continued to pile on the weight - going from 58kgs to 68kgs in two months. Vet said I was practically starving him. He had been tested for the condition previously but in it's early stages doesn't always show up, so I know you can almost starve a dog with hypothyroidism and it still gains weight. 

Sharp - no I don't think you are talking about my dogs and if you were it would be in ignorance as Mals do not have the build to look skinny. They are called "the carthorse of sledders" and are not meant to look trim, they always look substantial but not fat!
If you wish to think I refer to you then do so but I think with the very few overweight dogs on this forum (as has been stated by more than just me) this thread is neither necessary or in good taste!


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> Wow...way to get a person paranoid....certainly won't be sharing pics of my lot again as Tex is over weight by quite a bit, there is also a reason for this only I wasn't aware we each had to explain our dogs, but as I haven't one could assume that there is no reason....when in actual fact there is... but i just haven't broadcast it....and don't see that i should really as it's a pet forum, not a place where it's obligatory to tell all.
> I'm sorry if this offends anyone and no it may not be bout any of mine, but the fact is, one of my dogs falls into the category of those who are being spoken of and i feel like removing all of my pics now t b h


I think most folk have either said they haven't seen any obese dogs here or, like I mentioned early on, that they don't assume that the reason for it is not medical. I pick and choose pics carefully as I don't want to put up the ones with ribs showing on the move....because I don't want people thinking Kilo is too thin.....


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Set_Nights said:


> Lol, I was thinking this as I was stroking the back of my hand and thinking "Hmmm..." .
> 
> I can't remember seeing any on here but I try not to judge a dog unless I see it in person as photos can be decieving. I also don't think too much on long haired dogs as they can look obese but actually just be a furball . You never really know unless you meet the dog in person and give it a good feel!
> 
> ...


I think she looks good; but then I do like lean dogs. Kilo too has a short coat so you can see everything....you can see the outline of his last two ribs all the time and can see most of them when he is running, twisting etc - I think he is naturally just lean (and of course is very young still) as he eats as much as he is given and would eat all day given the chance . Hubby thinks he is a little too skinny but I don't want to put any excess weight on young joints.....I think, like Mia, that Kilo is toned and fit looking and certainly full of energy so they ,must be OK!


----------



## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

H0lly said:


> I am forever being told the opposite and that Dora is skinny, I don't think she is, Like Dogless said i prefer the term lean and healthy  , Saying that i have not seen any obese dogs on here, but i might not be paying much attention


Bailey is obese


----------



## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

This is Bailey










He is still a little bit too thin, not sure if you can see in that picture yet but you can still see his two bone things at the back near his tail

And this is Duke, he still looks quite poofy to me


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

I put Oscar on a diet about a year ago because i thought he was looking too heavy even with his solid build , then he went to the groomers and had a shorter clip than usual and i realised he was actually fine, he carries alot of bulky coat around his middle, infact he has an extrememly heavy coat even for a cocker so this makes him look heavier than he is . Just shows how deceptive it can be and i made that judgement from actually looking at him in the flesh


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Don't be silly Clare, it's your dog and i'm sure it isn't massively fat, which is what I think of as obese, looking at some people. I wonder how many owners on here are actually obese - bet it's more than the dogs.  You certainly don't have to be offended about comments as it's not really anyone's business, not on a pet forum any way - I mean they are not the RSPCA telling you to get the dog in shape.
> 
> If people don't like how my dogs look then don't freaking look at them, I certainly wouldn't be intimidated by a busy body who doesn't even know the situation surrounding my dogs conditions.  And people putting up pics of skinny dogs asking do they look fat is ridiculous. Big pat on the back for stating the bleeding obvious!!


I think that people putting up the pics of skinny dogs is more to illustrate that, like people, they are judged too but for the opposite reason.....I did a thread a while back asking if Kilo was too skinny as I was getting quite a few comments. Most people said he was fine, some said he was a little too thin but, as soon as we put pics up on here, we do leave them open to comment.

I would never post my opinion on a dog's appearance in a negative manner unless asked though when folk post photos - if they are not my cup of tea I simply don't view the thread or comment at all (and am sure people feel the same about my dog too) and we do never know why they may be skinny / obese etc. Added to that I wouldn't have a clue with the hairy ones and nor is it any of my business unless asked specifically.


----------



## Lil Doglets (Oct 17, 2011)

I think the word 'obese' is exagerating tbh, i can't say i've seen any obese dogs on here and i usually always look through pic threads, to me obese would be a dog that is so overweight it can't run about and move like a healthy dog and is literally like a barrel with folds of fat around the neck etc. 
I find some do *appear* a little chunky but i don't judge as it is most likely just the position or the angle the photo was taken, long fur is very deceiving too. and many breeds are naturally more stocky with less shape to them even when lean.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

What always strikes me with threads like this is when they cause controversy, people rush to defend themselves when there isn't the need. You know your dogs, medical conditions etc. If you do not like the topic or it doesn't apply, the easiest way for it to die is to leave it alone to drop through the pages. It appears that no dog owned by a PF member is obese or even overweight unless they have a medical condition. Admittingly I don't generally look at peoples photo's and never seen them here. In the background however, without commenting there may be a few owners who look to their dogs and say.. "yes you do need to go on a diet". In my opinion it's worth making threads like this if you can help one person help their dog live a more healthy/longer life. 

This forum is not a popularity contest. I know I've been controversial myself. Even though I can disagree and "strongly discuss" with someone about a topic doesn't mean I cannot respect them as a person, even more when they are prepared to discuss their point of view in a sensible manner. If we shy away from topics which may be controversial we lose what I feel is an important purpose to this forum.


----------



## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

Set_Nights said:


> Yes, even if they eat less than a normal dog should they still can put on weight, but that just means that "moderately" is still too much for them! Once treatment is being received that should be less of a problem but some dogs will need to be on a very carefully monitored diet for the rest of their lives.
> 
> No matter what condition your dog has (applies for humans too), weight management is ALWAYS a balance between energy input and energy expended. If you don't eat more than you are expending, you don't put on weight. The only difference for dogs (or people) with hyperthyroidism is that, unfortunately, their expendature is far less than normal due to artificially low metabolic rate and so they can only afford to eat small amounts.


Nope not true - they can be eating so little that they are actually malnourished and still put on weight. Weight gain is not the be all and end all as an indication of how much a dog or person should be eating. An individual with hypothryroidism may be putting on or losing weight but still need to eat the amount they do - no one should be suggesting that they starve themselves or their dog before they are properly medicated. Which is what small amounts of food would actually amount to. It is also a vicious cycle as less food means less energy to exercise and can actually exacerbate weight gain.

And in reality we know very little about how metabolism works and even less about why obesity has spiralled in the last 20 years - it is certainly not as simple as 'eat less and exercise more'. If it was it would be relatively simple to fix but currently we just don't know enough about why.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Malmum said:


> I wonder how many owners on here are actually obese - bet it's more than the dogs.


I'll admit it, I'm obese. Gained 6 stone in just over a year when they changed my epilepsy medication and it just would not shift no matter what I did. As soon as I came off the meds the weight started to come off but I still have 70lbs to lose and it comes off a lot slower than it went on.


----------



## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Shrap said:


> I don't know about anyone else but it really pees me off when people on this forum have clearly obese dogs. Understandable if it's a new rescue but for people who have had the dogs for a long time... A lot of people on this forum constantly tell us how much they love their dogs and they agree it's important not to feed bakers and blah blah - yet happily overfeed their dogs.
> 
> Hello diabetes, arthritis etc. etc.
> 
> C'mon guys get your acts together


Wow!! Talk about judgemental:frown2:
The only obese dog I've ever seen on here is one of my own, and you know nothing about her-or me.


----------



## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

L/C said:


> Nope not true - they can be eating so little that they are actually malnourished and still put on weight. Weight gain is not the be all and end all as an indication of how much a dog or person should be eating. An individual with hypothryroidism may be putting on or losing weight but still need to eat the amount they do - no one should be suggesting that they starve themselves or their dog before they are properly medicated. Which is what small amounts of food would actually amount to. It is also a vicious cycle as less food means less energy to exercise and can actually exacerbate weight gain.
> 
> And in reality we know very little about how metabolism works and even less about why obesity has spiralled in the last 20 years - it is certainly not as simple as 'eat less and exercise more'. If it was it would be relatively simple to fix but currently we just don't know enough about why.


I never said that you should just starve a dog with hypothyroidism. I said that once a dog is being medicated and on a strictly controlled diet for life if shouldn't still be putting on weight. I can understand though that it might take a while for a diagnosis to be made and the dog might keep putting on weight then while the owner is scratching their head about what is going wrong. I can also understand why it is difficult to get weight off a dog that has already put it on as they are designed to preserve weight.

I already said I don't look at a dog and judge (as I know how annoying it is when people do it to me) and I don't think that strangers need to justify themselves on a pet forum about why their dog is the way it is. I just think that as a responsible owner we shouldn't let ourselves hide behind or accept excuses about why our dogs are the way they are. We should always be trying to better them, despite how bad the odds are, for their good and for ourselves... not for anyone else.


----------



## Blondie (Feb 27, 2011)

simplysardonic said:


> I'm sitting here feeling the back of my hand & then feeling Bob's ribs, one of my neuroses is weight & I'm neurotic now


Loking at the piccie and knowing he has a bit of rottie in him, I think he looks pretty much fine! Maybe a little extra on the shoulders, but its hard to tell properly from the angle of your earlier piccie. I wouldnt get neurotic about it, lol! Changing over to the raw will sort him out in his own good time I find. Our Sheeba lost weight when we changed her over and she wasnt really overweight to start with, but it changed her definition more than actual weight loss, which gave her a different 'look'.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ceearott said:


> Our Sheeba lost weight when we changed her over and she wasnt really overweight to start with, but it changed her definition more than actual weight loss, which gave her a different 'look'.


We've had the same happen with Rupert. I could have sworn he'd lost weight since being on raw, he certainly looked like he had, but according to the scales at the vets he'd actually put on almost 1kg.


----------



## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

I don't know why people are getting so upset. It's not like anyone has pointed the finger and actually said "your dog is fat".

There are obese dogs on this forum, there is also a few who are lean to the point of being underweight. No,, we don't know the why's, but im betting in some cases its purely down to too much or too little food.

Some people just refuse to see and admit the truth. Doesnt mean it can't be debated and discussed though.


----------



## kaz25 (Aug 9, 2011)

Benny was and probably still is overweight. I wouldn't say he was obese though! He was 40kg but has lost a bit now, not had him weighed for a few weeks though. He's looking a lot leaner and has lost a lot of the flab around his neck.

In all honesty I didn't even realise he'd put as much weight on but I see him every day so it's hard to see the difference!


----------



## kaz25 (Aug 9, 2011)

DogLover1981 said:


> Not every overweight dog is the fault of the owner. Kenya has gained a little weight in the last few years. I live with relatives that feed her treats and food because they think I don't feed her enough. :frown2: I've been trying to get her to an ideal weight.


This is exactly why Benny put on weight. He was about 32kg when my ex and I split and I moved in with my brother and his girlfriend. They thought it was fine to feed him titbits etc - chicken from the chippy being one! I told them numerous times not to but it's like people just ignore you!

He put on about 8kg in a year! Being on raw has helped his weight loss a lot though!


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Dogless said:


> I think most folk have either said they haven't seen any obese dogs here or, like I mentioned early on, that they don't assume that the reason for it is not medical. I pick and choose pics carefully as I don't want to put up the ones with ribs showing on the move....because I don't want people thinking Kilo is too thin.....


Now I don't believe Kilo could look anything but the picture of health in any photo you have of him. The camera never lies, or so they say and Kilo simply couldn't look anything other than stunning - I love your boy! :thumbup1:


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Malmum said:


> Now I don't bieve Kilo could look anything but the picture of health in any photo you have of him. The camera never lies, or so they say and Kilo simply couldn't look anything other than stunning - I love your boy! :thumbup1:


Thanks; very kind indeed (you always are about Kilo!) although you can see his ribs on the move so I pick the photos carefully at times!.

I think that your comment demonstrates the personal opinions aspect of this debate as well perfectly - I think he looks great, you think he looks great, many others think that he is too skinny ..... on the other hand, what is perfect or 'chunky' / 'pure muscle' / 'big boned' to others may look a bit too large to me. I would certainly never comment on peoples' lovely picture threads with anything negative about weight though unless the question had been asked directly....none of my business how folk want to keep their dogs or why they are the weight they are .


----------



## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> I don't know why people are getting so upset. It's not like anyone has pointed the finger and actually said "your dog is fat".
> 
> There are obese dogs on this forum, there is also a few who are lean to the point of being underweight. No,, we don't know the why's, but im betting in some cases its purely down to too much or too little food.
> 
> Some people just refuse to see and admit the truth. Doesnt mean it can't be debated and discussed though.


Debate is good and a lot of people are probably killing with kindness but the opening post implies obese dogs are overfed , not all of them are.


----------



## dvnbiker (Dec 2, 2009)

I have no problems with open debate but the original post was nothing more than judgemental which has made a lot of people paranoid. You cannot judge whether a dog is overweight merely by a photograph - you have to get your hands over that dog to feel whether they are or not. 

Surely this comes down to education education and more education.


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Shrap said:


> Well... If you'd rather we all ignore the problem in case one person gets offended? I did already mention the dogs I was talking about I know for a fact don't have medical conditions causing the problem. I would be interested to know though, what medical conditions there are that can cause such a drastic gain in weight, and that can't be controlled through diet, exercise and/or medicine? I have not seen any pics of tex other than his face so I can assure you, I wasn't talking about him either.
> 
> And yes, it is a pet forum, you have shared your pictures and by doing so have left them open to judgement, as have I, and everyone else. Is it only alright for people to pass judgement when it suits you, and when they're saying something nice?


Why dont you post the photos you are referring to then we can tell you if we agree with you - and if the owners of the dogs wants to identify themsleves they can defend themselves - if there is any need.



Mese said:


> The one in the middle is my girl , Gypsy
> and as lean as she is she is still 1kg over the top weight for a BC girl , weird huh
> All I can think is that all the exercise they get it must be muscle weight cos it sure aint fat , lol


I really do not think you should pay any attention at all to guide weights for breeds. They are purely guides so that if someone is researching a breed they will have an idea of what size and weight they are. It would never cross my mind to look up what weight my dogs are. They weigh whatever weight they are when I am happy with how they look.

I think vets are much more likely to mention obesity or even slight overweightness nowadays. A lot of vets have obesity clinics and dogs are usually weighed every time they go to the vets so an eye can be kept on weight gains or losses. Pity doctors dont take it so seriously!
It is also now thought to be better for an animal to be slightly underweight rather than slightly overweight so vets will not criticise a healthy lean dog. Candy went through a stage of eating next to nothing and became very lean (skinny). I was not overly worried but was keeping an eye on her and the groomer had mentioned it and asked that I did not let her lose any more weight. We tend to think the same way and both have a lot of dog experience. But the vet thought her weight and condition was perfectly acceptable. When she started eating properly the condition shot onto her and I was far more concerned that she was actually getting fat. Happily she is now eating sensibly and is neither skinny nor well covered - it only takes a bit of playing around with the food.

Of course there can be a medical reason for obesity but quite honestly that is very rare and the usual reason for overweight in any species is over eating and as we are responsible for our animals' diets we ought to learn to assess their body condition by eye (or feel) and adjust food accordingly. There should be no need to use scales.


----------



## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

Shrap said:


> Well... If you'd rather we all ignore the problem in case one person gets offended? I did already mention the dogs I was talking about I know for a fact don't have medical conditions causing the problem. I would be interested to know though, what medical conditions there are that can cause such a drastic gain in weight, and that can't be controlled through diet, exercise and/or medicine?


In all honesty I cannot remember seeing any pictures of fat dogs, maybe just missed them. But to be frank there are lots of outspoken views aired here so surely someone would have had to blurt out god your dog is obese don't you know you are killing it.

As to medical conditions - my previous dog had an auto immune disease and was on steroids for some time then very strong immune suppressant drugs so he did put weight on. Added to that he was very hairy so it made him look bigger than he was.


----------



## kaz25 (Aug 9, 2011)

Someone my OH's mum knows had a CKCS that weighed 14kg! It only weighed that much because it had arthritis and couldn't go on any length of walk, and no walking = no weight loss! It was nothing to do with how much it was fed.


----------



## Set_Nights (Sep 13, 2010)

As I said I can't remember seeing any fatties on here but I do know a few in person. I know someone with a chocolate lab who has managed to lose about a stone but is still a stone over weight. If he rolls on his back to have his belly rubbed his whole body wobbles and rolls from side to side . He looks (and feels) like a giant, squidgy barrel.

I actually feel sorry for his owner as he loves his dog and is obviously trying to do something about it (or he'd never have lost a stone) but the problem is that he takes the dog into work with him and leaves him unattended in the main office and all the staff/customers feed him treats when he is not looking. His wife and kid are apparently not on board with the diet either. It must be really difficult in those circumstances . The dog is only about 1 and a half.


----------



## kaz25 (Aug 9, 2011)

Set_Nights said:


> As I said I can't remember seeing any fatties on here but I do know a few in person. I know someone with a chocolate lab who has managed to lose about a stone but is still a stone over weight. If he rolls on his back to have his belly rubbed his whole body wobbles and rolls from side to side . He looks (and feels) like a giant, squidgy barrel.
> 
> I actually feel sorry for his owner as he loves his dog and is obviously trying to do something about it (or he'd never have lost a stone) but the problem is that he takes the dog into work with him and leaves him unattended in the main office and all the staff/customers feed him treats when he is not looking. His wife and kid are apparently not on board with the diet either. It must be really difficult in those circumstances . The dog is only about 1 and a half.


Oh, poor thing  Benny was overweight by just over a stone so I can't imagine what this dog must have been like before it lost a stone!

It really must be hard when people aren't onside with you. Thankfully not many people see Benny to give him the chance to give him treats but we're off to a friends house on boxing day and they always give him treats  I'm hoping once they see the difference in him they won't give him anything.

The cats are the only ones in the house that aren't on a diet


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

kaz25 said:


> Someone my OH's mum knows had a CKCS that weighed 14kg! It only weighed that much because it had arthritis and couldn't go on any length of walk, and no walking = no weight loss! It was nothing to do with how much it was fed.


If you cut down exercise then you cut down food. Does a couch potato eat the same amount as someone who runs daily? No! Or they do but they get fat.. And exacerbate any joint issues.

My post was not pointing out every dog on this forum and saying they're obese. There are A LOT of dogs on this forum. Many are within the bounds of people's preferences - some are way out of that range. Those are the ones I'm talking about.

And no I would never post photos of the dogs I mean! It's downright rude 

If you don't like this thread then don't read it anymore, I aired my views. 
And I did not mean that every overweight dog is like that becuse of overfeeding, but a lot are.

By obese I don't mean unable to walk, take a look at this site. Though I'm not in total agreement of some of the pics:

K9 Station Dog Training & AuxArcs Australian Shepherds

Edit: I mean that site just for the pics of what I mean by obese btw. Just read some of things written about labs


----------



## kaz25 (Aug 9, 2011)

Shrap said:


> If you cut down exercise then you cut down food. Does a couch potato eat the same amount as someone who runs daily? No! Or they do but they get fat.. And exacerbate any joint issues.


I understand that but the dog I am on about was eating very little as it was, how low can you take food before they end up ill though?

I wasn't having a go in any way, I was just sharing an experience.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

kaz25 said:


> I understand that but the dog I am on about was eating very little as it was, how low can you take food before they end up ill though?
> 
> I wasn't having a go in any way, I was just sharing an experience.


I didn't mean to sound so bitchy in my reply lol 

How little exercise was the dog getting? The thing is that the worst thing you can do for a dog like that is to not walk it :/ They need to keep active and if the dog is in so much pain that it can't walk, should it be alive? Especially if that means the dog is rapidly increasing in weight, which only makes the pain much worse


----------



## kaz25 (Aug 9, 2011)

Shrap said:


> I didn't mean to sound so bitchy in my reply lol
> 
> How little exercise was the dog getting? The thing is that the worst thing you can do for a dog like that is to not walk it :/ They need to keep active and if the dog is in so much pain that it can't walk, should it be alive? Especially if that means the dog is rapidly increasing in weight, which only makes the pain much worse


I'm not sure tbh, OH's mum just mentioned it a few weeks ago as it got put down just a few weeks after OH's parents' CKCS.

I do agree with whether it should be alive if it can't walk though, goodness knows what that strain would be putting on their other organs.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

How far do you cut food down though? There's only so far you can go with diet alone.


----------



## kaz25 (Aug 9, 2011)

Sarah1983 said:


> How far do you cut food down though? There's only so far you can go with diet alone.


I wondered that too. Benny only gets between 450-500g of raw a day which isn't even 2% of 28kg and he's over 30kg, probably about 36kg now.


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Shrap said:


> Well... If you'd rather we all ignore the problem in case one person gets offended? I did already mention the dogs I was talking about I know for a fact don't have medical conditions causing the problem. I would be interested to know though, what medical conditions there are that can cause such a drastic gain in weight, and that can't be controlled through diet, exercise and/or medicine? I have not seen any pics of tex other than his face so I can assure you, I wasn't talking about him either.
> 
> And yes, it is a pet forum, you have shared your pictures and by doing so have left them open to judgement, as have I, and everyone else. Is it only alright for people to pass judgement when it suits you, and when they're saying something nice?


I wouldn't say to ignore the problem if you're asked out right about it but It has nothing to do with you or anyone else if you'r not asked out right surely? and yes, it is OK to pass judgement if I've asked if my dog is fat, but if I post a picture of any of my dogs on a thread about say 'cute dogs' no I don't expect someone to come on and say , yes very cute dog but overweight, I'd rather someone not post a comment at all than one like that in all honesty.
I'm glad it's not aimed at any of my lot of course I am, but surely you understand the reason people might question who's dogs you are talking about?
I could explain why Tex is rather portly....but I'm not going to as I dn't see why I should and why it has anything to do with anyone else, I jined the forum to meet up with like minded pet lovers, I have owned animals of all kinds all of my life so know what I'm doing and if I want advice I shall ask for it


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

I'm the opposite, I'd rather someone say if they thought my dog looked fat in a picture I'd posted and not just say "cute dog" or whatever. Same if they thought he was too skinny. 

What you're used to seeing can also become normal. I got so used to Rupert and his being so underweight that I started to see dogs at a healthy weight as being really overweight because they were so much fatter than he was. There are times now when I look at Rupert and think "god he's fat!" but he's not.


----------



## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

If you think a members` dog is unhealthy why not say so? Instead of generalising? Perhaps the dog has a health problem, perhaps the photo is not current, perhaps it`s just a bad photo. 
I think if you have a concern about a particular dog you should voice your concerns.


----------



## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Going from a dog who looked like this









to a dog like this









Can drive you crazy.

Both dogs are different breeds of different natures.

My first dog, Barney was a very active dog and was working x show, he could never put much weight on despite the amount I fed him and gave up and decided actually he was a nice weight. I had people complain that he looked thin all the time.

Then we have Maya who is a malamute she's short but quite heavy set she's also not very active and because of this lives on a very restrictive diet. I've had people call her an obese husky, pregnant or just plain fat. When her coat is gone for the summer she looks so different it's crazy but people don't seem to understand that it's only her coat.

I myself have not seen any obese dogs on here but I believe you have to know about the dog before you can pass judgement. If you have a problem with how someone's dog looks why not sent them a polite pm and ask them for all they know they may not realize their dog is obese or have not discussed on the forum that their dog has a health problem.

I know quite a few fat/obese dogs locally and i'm one of those few who never says anything mostly because the owners know the fat they are "porky" and don't seem to care, if anything joke about it. It's not to my personal taste as I like my dogs trim but it's none of my business how they look after their dog as long as it's legal.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> I wouldn't say to ignore the problem if you're asked out right about it but It has nothing to do with you or anyone else if you'r not asked out right surely? and yes, it is OK to pass judgement if I've asked if my dog is fat, but if I post a picture of any of my dogs on a thread about say 'cute dogs' no I don't expect someone to come on and say , yes very cute dog but overweight, I'd rather someone not post a comment at all than one like that in all honesty.
> I'm glad it's not aimed at any of my lot of course I am, but surely you understand the reason people might question who's dogs you are talking about?
> I could explain why Tex is rather portly....but I'm not going to as I dn't see why I should and why it has anything to do with anyone else, I jined the forum to meet up with like minded pet lovers, I have owned animals of all kinds all of my life so know what I'm doing and if I want advice I shall ask for it


I'm not the kind of person to ignore a problem because I'm not asked about it, sorry! Equally I wouldn't put it on a public thread. But I'm expressing my annoyance at it in a bit of a rant thread.
I didn't offer you any advice, although "I've owned animals all my life" is saying what? There are tonnes of people who have owned animals all their lives and still breed their bitches just once before spaying..


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I looked at that site you linked to. I do not really agree with a lot of their assessments though all the morbidly obese dogs are obviously fairly bad. The weimeraner which is slightly overweight looks obese to me - they are long lean dogs, it looks more like an overweight labrador in shape.

I get annoyed by the classifications. It depends on breeds as to what shape they should be when a correct weight.
Same with horses. There all sorts of charts for classifying them but if any of my cobs looked the same shape as a fit TB I would be up for prosecution :biggrin:

I am not sure why anyone has a problem with just looking at their dog, or feeling if there is a lot of hair, and knowing exactly whether it is over or under weight. If it is starting to get porky then cut down the food, if it is ribby then up it.

I still have yet to see an obese dog on here. And Shrap, you have upset so many people I am not sure why you would think it rude to show the picture that you mean.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Blitz said:


> I looked at that site you linked to. I do not really agree with a lot of their assessments though *all the morbidly obese dogs are obviously fairly bad*. The weimeraner which is slightly overweight looks obese to me - they are long lean dogs, it looks more like an overweight labrador in shape.
> 
> I get annoyed by the classifications. It depends on breeds as to what shape they should be when a correct weight.
> Same with horses. There all sorts of charts for classifying them but if any of my cobs looked the same shape as a fit TB I would be up for prosecution :biggrin:
> ...


My point with the link was that I think people thought I meant "morbidly obese" dogs when I didn't. I mean more than just a bit podgy.

And the people on this thread that have been offended, I still don't understand why? I have already said the dogs I was thinking of that made me start this thread I KNOW don't have medical issues.


----------



## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

I must have my rose tinted glasses on because I cant think of any members with overweight dogs.  Unless it's mine that are chubby?:001_huh:

Alaska.









Aiden.









Kai.









Scorcher.


----------



## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I dont like to be too judgemental about overweight dogs. Clearly, an obese dog with it's belly hanging to the floor is cruel and there is no excuse.

I have a dog who is overweight, i've struggled with it all his life. His meals are small, he was fed a premium weight control food, he has 2 hours off lead exercise a day, does agility yet the weight doesnt shift. He's a bumbling kind of dog who ambles along sniffing everything, he isnt interested in playing with toys or running round like a lunatic so exercising him appropriately is a challenge.

Sounds cruel to some but the only way I can get him to run is take him somewhere he can chase bunnies safely, otherwise he wont make the effort.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> If you think a members` dog is unhealthy why not say so? Instead of generalising? Perhaps the dog has a health problem, perhaps the photo is not current, perhaps it`s just a bad photo.
> I think if you have a concern about a particular dog you should voice your concerns.


Perhaps we should do the same with members then - or maybe that would be too personal. Much the same as with a members dog, i'm sure we can all see if our dogs are fat or not - well we should be able too. Having them weighed regularly is sort of a good indication as to whether they have gained weight.

What bothers me about threads like this is there have been threads in the past put up through vindictiveness to a forum member and if the op has a particular dog or dogs in mind should really voice that concern via pm!  That way the dog who is apparently causing concern may receive appropriate attention to diet/exercise and it's owner not embarrassed on a public forum.


----------



## Lyceum (Sep 25, 2009)

I honestly don't get offended by this type of thing and dont quite understand ho people do.

I'm over weight, nd people act as though they shouldn't say it, why? It's a fact, same as I'm brunette and a size six shoe. How can I be offended by a fact like that? I did it to myself and I'm trying to undo it. But doctors etc will tip toe around it, like I'll be shocked or something.

My dogs rely on me to feed them and if there's one thing I cant stand (medical conditions aside) it's an over weight dog. I'm very blatant about it too. My aunty's dog was massively over weight, I hadn't seen her for a few months, soon as I did I said 'wow, you need to get some weight off her'. She wasn't surprised, changed food to skinners and threw in an extra walk and she's back to fighting form.

I know some people are sensitive but it's killing your dog, with kindness yes, but still killing. If my bluntness makes someone wake up and get some weight off their dog, I don't care if they're offended. It may seem harsh, but it's a hell of a lot less harsh than when the dog gets all sort of weight related issues.

I often get people telling me Novak is too thin, but he's absolutely not, he's a nice layer of fat over his ribs and a nice tuck. Bailey is very muscular but again, layer of fat over the ribs and a perfect tuck. If they started to look a bit podgy I'd cut down their food.


----------



## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

I never go by weight for dogs but by visual and touch. 
Bobby weighs in at 22kg which is at the top end for a border collie, but he is tall and long for a collie and very slim. Some people think he is too thin (not the vet though). He will never carry any excess weight, too ants in the pantsy and he self regulates what food he needs really well. Less exercise and he leaves some of his food.
Pickle (RIP) on the other hand was a little porker, she even had the honorary name porkmeister given to her when she first arrived many years ago. She did lose 5lbs which for a small dog was a lot and looked much better for it, but she got a bit on the podgy side in her last couple of years and as with many old people things went a bit South but not excessively in her case. Due to dementia she would forget that she had eaten and cry pitifully for her meals, that was hard to deal with, so she did have a few bits of extra chicken just to placate her. At her age I wasn't going to put her through any more distress.


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Shrap said:


> I'm not the kind of person to ignore a problem because I'm not asked about it, sorry! Equally I wouldn't put it on a public thread. But I'm expressing my annoyance at it in a bit of a rant thread.
> I didn't offer you any advice, although "I've owned animals all my life" is saying what? There are tonnes of people who have owned animals all their lives and still breed their bitches just once before spaying..


If you'd care to quote every part of what I said instead of the part that you choose I said and I QUOTE ''I have owned animals all of my life and I know what I'm doing''...Tell me, do you enjoy making a person feel like sh1t?
Actually don't bother quoting me on that... I'm not bothering with this thread any more, I really do wonder why I bothered coming back to this bloody forum at times, it appears that if you don't agree with a person you are in the wrong...why start thread that is just going to either upset or p1ss someone off???YOU had an opinion....I had a different one..END OF, out of this thread.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> If you'd care to quote every part of what I said instead of the part that you choose I said and I QUOTE ''I have owned animals all of my life and I know what I'm doing''...Tell me, do you enjoy making a person feel like sh1t?
> Actually don't bother quoting me on that... I'm not bothering with this thread any more, I really do wonder why I bothered coming back to this bloody forum at times, it appears that if you don't agree with a person you are in the wrong...why start thread that is just going to either upset or p1ss someone off???YOU had an opinion....I had a different one..END OF, out of this thread.


You were the one trying to tell me how wrong I was


----------



## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Shrap, have you actually ever owned a dog apart from your current puppy. I think I gather you have not so might be an idea to slow down a bit.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Blitz said:


> Shrap, have you actually ever owned a dog apart from your current puppy. I think I gather you have not so might be an idea to slow down a bit.


I have not had a dog that I paid for everything and took 100% responsibility before Dino, no. But I am not entirely sure what that has to do with me getting annoyed over people having fat dogs?


----------



## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

What about obese people?

There's people with medical conditions that cause this.

It annoys me when people are so judgemental and are holier than thou but I don't go posting a thread about it.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

NicoleW said:


> What about obese people?
> 
> There's people with medical conditions that cause this.
> 
> It annoys me when people are so judgemental and are holier than thou *but I don't go posting a thread about it*.


and that is your choice!

Obese people = from a medical point of view, it's their own choice. From my point of view, any conditions resuulting from NON medical related obesity should not be paid for on the NHS.

People already pay for their dogs' vet bills, but i'm not worried about the money when we're talking about animals. I'm talking about their health.

Do forgive me if not overfeeding my dog makes me holier than thou


----------



## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

With rising energy costs you have to overfeed your dogs so their fat can keep 'em warm! :O


----------



## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Shrap said:


> Well... If you'd rather we all ignore the problem in case one person gets offended? I did already mention the dogs I was talking about I know for a fact don't have medical conditions causing the problem. I would be interested to know though, what medical conditions there are that can cause such a drastic gain in weight, and that can't be controlled through diet, exercise and/or medicine? I have not seen any pics of tex other than his face so I can assure you, I wasn't talking about him either.
> 
> And yes, it is a pet forum, you have shared your pictures and by doing so have left them open to judgement, as have I, and everyone else. Is it only alright for people to pass judgement when it suits you, and when they're saying something nice?


 Jays condition has been diagnosed and we still struggle with her weight. How lovely that you have such a healthy dog that you can look down on others who haven't


----------



## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

Shrap said:


> I have not had a dog that I paid for everything and took 100% responsibility before Dino, no. But I am not entirely sure what that has to do with me getting annoyed over people having fat dogs?


I think the general feeling of your first post could be taken to be looking down on other members, kind of in a holier-than-thou attitude and that's why it has caused such controversy. If you've never owned an adult dog, let alone a few dogs and maybe have experience in weight management of an adult dog it's probably quite easy for you to sit there and tell people to do better, but it isn't that simple.

We're all animal lovers and no-one here would want their dog to be obese. I think a thread telling people to 'sort it out' has been far from conducive to helping, it's just made some folk paranoid.

I wasn't going to add my tuppence because I didn't want to be on the receiving end of being told I was deliberately killing my dog, but I will add it in the hope of giving you a bit more experience about weight management.

One of my dogs, Lily, is a Springer cross Cocker and I'll be the first to admit she could do with losing some weight. She's far from obese, but is carrying more than I'd like. Lily gets the same amount of exercise (a lot!) as the other 5 dogs who are in peak condition so that isn't to blame, she doesn't lag when out or anything like that. I tried her on diet food for many months with no drastic change in her weight, so I've recently put her on a normal food but halved the sizes of her meals. The weight is *slowly* coming off but it's taking a very long time. So, the whole exercise and diet balance isn't to blame here. Her Mum was built the same so I can only guess that it's genetic and I know her weight is going to be a lifelong battle.

I wish I could click my fingers and have her slimmed down like you said in your first post, but it just isn't that simple. I'm not happy about the situation, and the original post has served nothing to me really except I really don't feel like putting pics of her up anymore if I'm going to be condemned.


----------



## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

Blitz said:


> Shrap, have you actually ever owned a dog apart from your current puppy. I think I gather you have not so might be an idea to slow down a bit.


What??? You're kidding!!!

Well that explains a lot - i'm out of this thread too having owned MY OWN dogs for well over thirty years there is nothing in this thread of any interest to me! 

Can't abide an upstart!


----------



## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

Shrap said:


> Maybe you haven't the same photo threads that I have  I can assure you it's not a particularly odd thing to say if you think there are certain dogs who are more than overweight. We are on a pet forum after all. And I'm not the only one who has seen fat dogs on the forum!


Could you please point me in the direction of these fat dogs here you have seen as I must of missed something

There are bound to be fat dogs in the whole country....sorry but dont understand the point of your thread:frown2:


----------



## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Shrap said:


> I have not had a dog that I paid for everything and took 100% responsibility before Dino, no. But I am not entirely sure what that has to do with me getting annoyed over people having fat dogs?


In other words you haven't a clue what you're talking about


----------



## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Im so confused reading this thread In terms of what its trying to achieve.

I have to admit I havnt noticed any overly big (As in unhealthily big) dogs on the forum. Sounds like I must be walking around blinkered - Millie has put on nearly a Kg in the last year - Maybe I should be more careful before posting any pictures of her in future


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Shrap said:


> Obese people = from a medical point of view, it's their own choice. From my point of view, any conditions resuulting from NON medical related obesity should not be paid for on the NHS.


It certainly was NOT my choice to be obese! Far from it! And what would be classed as non medical obesity? I gained weight on a drug the experts say doesn't cause weight gain (there are a lot of epileptics out there who strongly disagree!). I came close to developing serious medical issues because of my weight, would they be covered by the nhs as they were due to obesity caused by a drug that apparently doesn't cause weight gain?


----------



## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Today at the vets there was a overweight dog, clearly but a happy dog non-the less. It was there for its check up and to pick up some food. Yeah it was a overweight dog but me, the other folk in there nor the staff said "your dog's obese" nor made any snarky remarks about any dogs in the room being overweight. His owner said "Oh he's a big boy, bit chunky".

If I had said "Your dogs overweight, you can't feed it that food and let it be overweight" or "Your dogs a bit fat" I am sure Iwould have had a slap, it would have been well deserved too. 

Many people's pets are members of the family, that's like going to pick your child up from school and saying to the group of parents outside "there's a few obese children in this school there's no excuse" 

Its going to be frowned upon.

As long as the dogs happy and healthy I dont think anyone on here is deluding themselves on their dogs weight. My Alaska's a bit on the chub side but still perfectly acceptable weight for her breed.

Those with overweight/chunky dogs will know their dogs are. Even though I have yet to see a fat dog tbh.:


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

kat&molly said:


> Jays condition has been diagnosed and we still struggle with her weight. How lovely that you have such a healthy dog that you can look down on others who haven't


Maybe you should read the thread, you know, the bit where I said the dogs I'm talking about I already know don't have medical conditions.



Grace_Lily said:


> I think the general feeling of your first post could be taken to be looking down on other members, kind of in a holier-than-thou attitude and that's why it has caused such controversy. If you've never owned an adult dog, let alone a few dogs and maybe have experience in weight management of an adult dog it's probably quite easy for you to sit there and tell people to do better, but it isn't that simple.
> 
> We're all animal lovers and no-one here would want their dog to be obese. I think a thread telling people to 'sort it out' has been far from conducive to helping, it's just made some folk paranoid.
> 
> ...


Yup, I do look down on people who overfeed their dogs massively and then claim to do everything to keep their dogs healthy. Not aimed at you btw 
Glad the weight is coming off, and that you noticed before it got to the obesity stage.



Malmum said:


> What??? You're kidding!!!
> 
> Well that explains a lot - i'm out of this thread too having owned MY OWN dogs for well over thirty years there is nothing in this thread of any interest to me!
> 
> Can't abide an upstart!


You're old, good for you! :thumbup1:



mollymo said:


> Could you please point me in the direction of these fat dogs here you have seen as I must of missed something
> 
> There are bound to be fat dogs in the whole country....sorry but dont understand the point of your thread:frown2:


Already said I won't point fingers at certain dogs. And the point was me stating my annoyance at something. Or should I keep all my views to myself? Or just the ones some people don't like 



kat&molly said:


> In other words you haven't a clue what you're talking about


Christ you're right. I have absolutely no idea! Metabolism must be a hugely different mechanism in dogs than humans.


----------



## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

Didn't realise people weren't allowed to post an opinion because they'd only had 1 dog....i've only had Tummel but have been around various breeds for the 20 years i've been on this earth!!! It doesn't matter if you've had 1 dog or 100 dogs you can have an opinion which is exactly what Shrap had....people took it wayy to far and now it's become a big fight, all i can say is some member should grow up, she did say she wasn't having a go at dogs with medical conditions.

Healthy dogs get fat when they have too much food and not enough exercise, just like us humans....dogs however, are not in charge of their exercise routine or feeding regime therefore the blame lies on owners....it's simple enough!

Shrap had an opinion, it was taken way too far so can we all just maybe chill out and stop fighting?


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

To Shrap. As i can't post this on your wall in response to the post on my wall i will post it here. 

Yes i did "like" Blitzs post and last time i looked that wasn't a crime.

No i don't know you but do you know all the dogs and owners personally that you are heaping scorn on ??


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> To Shrap. As i can't post this on your wall in response to the post on my wall i will post it here.
> 
> Yes i did "like" Blitzs post and last time i looked that wasn't a crime.
> 
> No i don't know you but do you know all the dogs and owners personally that you are heaping scorn on ??


I didn't heap scorn on anyone.

Some people seem to be under the impression that there isn't a single overweight dog on this forum that doesn't have a medical condition causing it.


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Err...I also liked the post,...TBH op....I think you are taking this too for and getting far too personal with it


----------



## catseyes (Sep 10, 2010)

what a horrible thread this is - better not be my grizzly bear your talking about!


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Shrap said:


> I didn't heap scorn on anyone.
> 
> Some people seem to be under the impression that there isn't a single overweight dog on this forum that doesn't have a medical condition causing it.


Not nice though is it when people make judgemental assumptions without all the Facts ? 

As is always the case, it ain't what you say it's the way that you say it :thumbup1:


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Shrap said:


> I didn't heap scorn on anyone.
> 
> Some people seem to be under the impression that there isn't a single overweight dog on this forum that doesn't have a medical condition causing it.


Maybe there is maybe not but it has naff all to do with anyone else, and how do you KNOW there is no medical reason for the dogs you consider to be over weight....just because you haven't been told doesn't mean there isn't!


----------



## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

And in other news.

My beardie is shedding, bless it looks like when hoomans get sunburnt and the skin peels.


Anatidaephobia - the fear that somewhere, somehow, a duck is watching you.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> Err...I also liked the post,...TBH op....I think you are taking this too for and getting far too personal with it


The first person to get personal was Blitz.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> Not nice though is it when people make judgemental assumptions without all the Facts ?
> 
> As is always the case, it ain't what you say it's the way that you say it :thumbup1:


Only ever so slightly confused now! Must be my age


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Shrap said:


> The first person to get personal was Blitz.


IMO all Blitz did was question your authority to make such a statement about other members dogs, she is known on the forum for her bluntness but she was no mnore forthright with her opinion than you were tbh.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Shrap said:


> Only ever so slightly confused now! Must be my age


none so blind as those who cannot see :thumbup1:


----------



## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

NicoleW said:


> And in other news.
> 
> My beardie is shedding, bless it looks like when hoomans get sunburnt and the skin peels.
> 
> Anatidaephobia - the fear that somewhere, somehow, a duck is watching you.


I had leopard geckos and Chinese Water Dragons...it's horrible watching them shed(amazing when the geckos would eat it though!!!) My burm was really lazy, she would peel off her head then wait for me to come and hold the kin in place while she slithered off!!! :thumbup1:


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> IMO all Blitz did was question your authority to make such a statement about other members dogs, she is known on the forum for her bluntness but she was no mnore forthright with her opinion than you were tbh.


I enjoy people who are blunt. However now you have to have owned dogs for a certain amount of time to be able to tell when one is fat? Or are we debating the health implications of excess weight now?

Blitz: What is the cut off point then. How long should I have owned dogs for before I can have opinions on people's dogs?


----------



## L/C (Aug 9, 2010)

Shrap said:


> Christ you're right. I have absolutely no idea! Metabolism must be a hugely different mechanism in dogs than humans.


Metabolism isn't understood in humans - let alone dogs. There is huge amounts of money being pumped into the study of human nutrition and metabolism atm and we still don't really know a huge amount about it. We don't know why 2 people can eat the same piece of food but extract completely different amounts of calories from it, we have a basic idea how the endocrine system interplays with the digestive/nutritional system but there are still a lot of grey area, it is a complicated system and the oft repeated mantra of "eat less, exercise more" is not particuarly useful.

And my pet hate - that crap about how if you eat 200 extra calories a day you'll carry on putting on weight? Much repeated by "nutritionists" and tv pundits but not true. You'll put on x amount that an extra 200 calories will give you and then you'll stop as you need that extra 200 to maintain the weight gain. You (or your dog) don't magically keep on gaining weight.


----------



## natty01 (Sep 4, 2011)

i saw a whippet in the vets the other week it was wider than my lab, it had a tiny head and a skinny tail but its body was like a barrell i assume it was fat for a medical reason as i think it would be prettyhard to get a whippet that fat from overfeeding.


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Shrap said:


> The first person to get personal was Blitz.


Actually I think you'll find she was stating a fact based on your signature....you don't appear to have any other than a puppy....is she wrong?
Look, when you have had your GSD puppy for a while possibly come across some of the probs that goes with having a dog I will probably understand your being judgemental a little more, until then try not to be so judgemental about things that you possibly know nothing about.....I hope to god your Dog never has any health problems.....


----------



## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

You misquoted me
Believing that if a dog has sufficient exercise, treatment and isn't overfed then the weight should fall off- it doesn't always work like that.
You dont know who on here overfeeds their dogs , I do get offended by these sort of threads because it implies I'm not doing the best by one of my dogs. 
I have no idea if I have a wall in case you said anything about me liking Blitz' post- but if I find it I'll be banging my head against it


----------



## Wildmoor (Oct 31, 2011)

I hate fat dogs too
unfortunately one of mine is currently obese, on a forum I help to moderate I actualy posted a thread called 'Zandi is officially Fat' i had taken him for his vacs and knew he was overweight due to having a TTA last year, reduction in exercise, being locked in a cage for hours on end on vets instructions etc so had him weighed, 10kg overweight now i knew he was fat but didnt think it was that much. Even prior to his vet visit he had been changed onto a diet low in fat and redced the amount given.
He is finaly getting a waist back, at one stage he was so fat when he urinated he burned the skin on his stomach:

So yes agree in principle with Shrap I hate Fat dogs myself, the only thing I will disagree with is the bit about obesity in people, I work in psychiatry so I am aware of the fact most (not all) antipsychotics cause massive weight gain even in people that eat very little and also over-exercise


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Shrap said:


> I enjoy people who are blunt. However now you have to have owned dogs for a certain amount of time to be able to tell when one is fat? Or are we debating the health implications of excess weight now?
> 
> Blitz: What is the cut off point then. How long should I have owned dogs for before I can have opinions on people's dogs?


Errr actually getting your hands on the dog in real life rather than basing an opinion on forum photos would be a good start. :thumbup1: along with having in depth knowledge of each breeds conformation requirements.

As i said in my earlier post photos can be very deceptive, even seeing a heavy coated dog in the flesh doesn't always give a true reflection of weight/size.


----------



## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

NicoleW said:


> My beardie is shedding, bless it looks like when hoomans get sunburnt and the skin peels.


I was sitting here trying to figure out how a bearded collie shedding could look like a sunburnt human with peeling skin. It was only when I gave up and read ahead that I realised you weren't talking about a dog


----------



## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

RAINYBOW said:


> As i said in my earlier post photos can be very deceptive, even seeing a heavy coated dog in the flesh doesn't always give a true reflection of weight/size.


This is true. A friend has PMD's and I always thought they were a bit on the large side but when you put your hands across their body and under their big thick fur they are perfectly sized.

I think the easiest solution is to if you think a dog's overweight maybe mention it as a nice passing comment to the owner but not a thread about it.:frown2:

The forum's full of folk who love their animals and this is the type of thread that the forum could do without, unless the owner has asked a personal opinion on her/his dogs weight.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Sarah1983 said:


> I was sitting here trying to figure out how a bearded collie shedding could look like a sunburnt human with peeling skin. It was only when I gave up and read ahead that I realised you weren't talking about a dog


I was trying to work out when Nicole got a beardie (collie) :biggrin: so not just you.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

L/C said:


> Metabolism isn't understood in humans - let alone dogs. There is huge amounts of money being pumped into the study of human nutrition and metabolism atm and we still don't really know a huge amount about it. We don't know why 2 people can eat the same piece of food but extract completely different amounts of calories from it, we have a basic idea how the endocrine system interplays with the digestive/nutritional system but there are still a lot of grey area, it is a complicated system and the oft repeated mantra of "eat less, exercise more" is not particuarly useful.
> 
> And my pet hate - that crap about how if you eat 200 extra calories a day you'll carry on putting on weight? Much repeated by "nutritionists" and tv pundits but not true. You'll put on x amount that an extra 200 calories will give you and *then you'll stop as you need that extra 200 to maintain the weight gain*. You (or your dog) don't magically keep on gaining weight.


Makes you wonder how much extra these people are feeding their dogs 

There is not a set amount between different people, but through a dog's life you will get to know how much that dog needs. You will be able to figure it out before the dog gets to the obesity stage! Else we'd all be balloons!!



Clare7435 said:


> Actually I think you'll find she was stating a fact based on your signature....you don't appear to have any other than a puppy....is she wrong?
> When did I ask where she got the fact from, I said she was the first to get personal, when I was accused of getting personal.
> Look, when you have had your GSD puppy for a while possibly come across some of the probs that goes with having a dog I will probably understand your being judgemental a little more, until then try not to be so judgemental about things that you possibly know nothing about.....I hope to god your Dog never has any health problems.....


Again, I need to have dealt with my own dog having problems before I can say a dog is fat, or that it being fat is bad?



RAINYBOW said:


> Errr actually getting your hands on the dog in real life rather than basing an opinion on forum photos would be a good start. :thumbup1: along with having in depth knowledge of each breeds conformation requirements.
> 
> As i said in my earlier post photos can be very deceptive, even seeing a heavy coated dog in the flesh doesn't always give a true reflection of weight/size.


Who said the dogs are heavy coated?
The dogs in question I have a fair knowledge of what they're supposed to look like. Though I'm sure having seen many specimins doesn't count until I've owned dogs for... how many years Blitz?


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> I was trying to work out when Nicole got a beardie (collie) :biggrin: so not just you.


Me too......


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Shrap said:


> Makes you wonder how much extra these people are feeding their dogs
> 
> There is not a set amount between different people, but through a dog's life you will get to know how much that dog needs. You will be able to figure it out before the dog gets to the obesity stage! Else we'd all be balloons!!
> 
> ...


OK, so lets do numbers then. Exactly how many obese dogs that you have a reasonable knowledge of the breed and definately aren't heavy coated have you seen on here ?


----------



## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

LOL!

Ta da!


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> OK, so lets do numbers then. Exactly how many obese dogs that you have a reasonable knowledge of the breed and definately aren't heavy coated have you seen on here ?


I honestly could not remember! I have seen some before, and thought, boy that dogs a bit fat! Then I saw another thread recently that kicked me into posting this.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Shrap said:


> I honestly could not remember! I have seen some before, and thought, boy that dogs a bit fat! Then I saw another thread recently that kicked me into posting this.


So are we talking single figures, Tens, hundreds ???


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> So are we talking single figures, Tens, hundreds ???


Single figures I would think. But I rarely look at photo threads


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Shrap said:


> Single figures I would think. But I rarely look at photo threads


So of the thousands of dogs that pass through the hallowed halls of Petforum a few are overweight, some of which may well have medical issues or might be rescues who came to the owner with a weight issue ?

Am i making sense yet


----------



## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Excuse me but can someone comment on how lovely my dragon looks


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

A heavy coat can make a dog look huge....but when they're cut or wet sometimes the dog is a total different shape....take a look 
I give my permission for any comments you like on this one....as I really don't care any more :001_tt2:


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> So of the thousands of dogs that pass through the hallowed halls of Petforum a few are overweight, some of which may well have medical issues or might be rescues who came to the owner with a weight issue ?
> 
> Am i making sense yet


I understand your point, but I still don't think obesity in dogs should be downplayed. Some have medical issues, some don't.


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

NicoleW said:


> Excuse me but can someone comment on how lovely my dragon looks


lol....Beautiful.....skin an all


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

NicoleW said:


> Excuse me but can someone comment on how lovely my dragon looks


It's a bit fat 

Lovely Dragon


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Clare7435 said:


> A heavy coat can make a dog look huge....but when they're cut or wet sometimes the dog is a total different shape....take a look
> I give my permission for any comments you like on this one....as I really don't care any more :001_tt2:


Awww that should be in the cute thread 

That is what happens to oscar when he gets wet, he goes from big hefty bruiser to pathetic waif in the sprinkling of a hosepipe.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Shrap said:


> I understand your point, but I still don't think obesity in dogs should be downplayed. Some have medical issues, some don't.


I am not downplaying the issue of obesity i am questioning the need for judgement rather than support, help and advice


----------



## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Aww come on Rainy, you're the only person who hasn't commented on how lovely my shedding dragon is


----------



## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Clare7435 said:


> A heavy coat can make a dog look huge....but when they're cut or wet sometimes the dog is a total different shape....take a look
> I give my permission for any comments you like on this one....as I really don't care any more :001_tt2:


Your dog is beautiful. Such big eyes.

I know exactly what you mean,



































I find fluffy dogs wet is amusing, they look like small horses! :lol:


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

NicoleW said:


> Aww come on Rainy, you're the only person who hasn't commented on how lovely my shedding dragon is


Awww he is a cutie, just don't ask me to touch it  

My son loves them and i just know at some point in my life i am going to have to deal with my own fear  I keep trying to talk him in to a Tarantula


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> I am not downplaying the issue of obesity i am questioning the need for judgement rather than support, help and advice


If they need support, help, and advice they have this forum. There are some who have perhaps had overweight dogs for some time and have not asked for this.


----------



## RAINYBOW (Aug 27, 2009)

Shrap said:


> If they need support, help, and advice they have this forum. There are some who have perhaps had overweight dogs for some time and have not asked for this.


Now you see reading this i find it very hard to accept that you aren't referring to just one member in particular.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

shetlandlover said:


> Your dog is beautiful. Such big eyes.
> 
> I know exactly what you mean,
> 
> ...


They look like jolteon!


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

RAINYBOW said:


> Now you see reading this i find it very hard to accept that you aren't referring to just one member in particular.


The one that kickstarted this thread is just one member, but it was "the last straw" so to speak.


----------



## NicoleW (Aug 28, 2010)

Shrap said:


> They look like jolteon!


The POKEMON?!?!


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

shetlandlover said:


> Your dog is beautiful. Such big eyes.
> 
> I know exactly what you mean,
> 
> ...


lol those picis are seriously cute....it goes to show how deceiving looks can be though doesn't it....


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Shrap said:


> If they need support, help, and advice they have this forum. There are some who have perhaps had overweight dogs for some time and have not asked for this.


They might not need or want help and advice though or believe that there is an issue that needs anyone's support.


----------



## shetlandlover (Dec 6, 2011)

Shrap said:


> They look like jolteon!


They do.









Think dying them yellow maybe a step to far.


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Shrap said:


> If they need support, help, and advice they have this forum. There are some who have perhaps had overweight dogs for some time and have not asked for this.


And after seeing a thread like this can you blame them??


----------



## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Shrap said:


> If they need support, help, and advice they have this forum. There are some who have perhaps had overweight dogs for some time and have not asked for this.


Perhaps they fear people like you will judge them


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> And after seeing a thread like this can you blame them??


This thread was posted in the absence of others  think your logic has gone a bit backwards!


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

kat&molly said:


> Perhaps they fear people like you will judge them


What I'm "judging" is people who AREN'T trying to make a difference.


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

If nutrition was simple we'd have the option to have it in pill form. Option as some people enjoy their food, both making and eating  I can eat more than my wife and lose weight whereas she will gain weight. Intake levels have to be maintained on an individual basis. This is the same with dogs and most of the whole nutrition thing is one of personal opinion.

I've heard the argument, if the dog is happy, who cares. If the dog lifespan is reduced I would hope the owner does.. 

I've heard the argument we all know if our dogs are overweight. I disagree. We live in a society where healthy weight dogs are frequently viewed as too skinny and half starved. Pudgy dogs are accepted. It's not easy to notice weight gradually increasing unless you compare past images to new ones. If we all look at our dogs most can rightly say nope.. fine. Others may be able to excuse themselves due to medical reasons although maybe there is more that could be done... probably not. Luckily I've never had the problem with weight gain for medical reasons in dogs so I do not know. The minority however, even if one or two in hundreds may look and say.. they are right.. you need to go on a diet.

I've heard people don't have a right to post opinion unless you've owned ??? amount of dogs... wrong. If this is the attitude people take I'm leaving. Fresh viewpoints and new knowledge is an essential part of any society if it is to grow. I frequently saw overweight dogs prior to owning one myself and knew even then that it couldn't be healthy. Did they not exist or were they physically different to if I saw them now?

The tone of the OP may have been wrong but look at the fundamental question... Is your dog a sensible weight and if not, isn't it time to do something about it? Even asked like that, many would take offence.

I do get the impression that everyone is perfect on this forum. Everybody has dogs which are perfectly trained, unless of course their owners are the ones asking questions. It's partly the nature of this type of forum. I'm pleased to admit our dogs have problems with pulling, with dog aggression, etc. We are trying to sort them. No I don't generally post about the problems but like to pick things up from other people's posts. Emma is overweight (not obese though) as she won't allow me to walk her (never had male owners at a guess) and my wife broke her foot (now recovered). It will take time for Emma to lose the weight she has gained and she is slowly getting it down. No we didn't really notice to start with and we really should have. As an owner of an overweight dog I didn't find the OP offensive although admittingly we were aware of the problem and she is already losing weight slowly. Did I check the photo's I've previously posted.. yes. Am I ashamed Emma's overweight.. yes. Would I be if she had medical reasons for being overweight.. no. Why should it matter to people whose dogs are at a good weight level?


----------



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Shrap said:


> What I'm "judging" is people who AREN'T trying to make a difference.


How do YOU KNOW if people AREN'T trying to make a difference? 

Should every PF member who intends to slim down their dog put up a thread 'FAO Shrap, I'm putting my dog on a diet!' ?!

Just because somebody doesn't make it public knowledge they are trying to slim down their chubby dog, doesn't mean they aren't. Also, you say you are only talking about dogs without medical problems - again, how do you know if they do? Just because the owner hasn't mentioned it, doesn't mean the dog doesn't have any.

I dislike seeing fat dogs, its a pet hate of mine. But, it's not an area that is black and white.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

SixStar said:


> How do YOU KNOW if people AREN'T trying to make a difference?
> 
> Should every PF member who intends to slim down their dog put up a thread 'FAO Shrap, I'm putting my dog on a diet!' ?!
> 
> ...


From things the owners say! "Oh we've been lucky nothing has ever happened to ---" And it's blatantly obvious when the dog has been overweight for a long period of time!

And to me it is black and white: Can something be done about it? Yes or no.


----------



## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Goblin you have such a lovely way of wording things its so hard to disagree with something you've said
However, regarding the weight unless you have been going through it for years some people have no idea.
I cant be arsed to go through Jays problems again, I have done before and if anyone wants to search through for her photo it's there. The OP lumped everyone in to overfeeding , in more than 1 post.


----------



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Shrap said:


> From things the owners say! "Oh we've been lucky nothing has ever happened to ---" And it's blatantly obvious when the dog has been overweight for a long period of time!
> 
> And to me it is black and white: Can something be done about it? Yes or no.


It can take a long time to get weight off a dog - weight doesn't go on over night, and it doesn't come off over night either. It's hard.

Again. Just because the owners do not mention it, does not mean it isn't there.

There's something quite seriously medically wrong with one of my dogs - I've not mentioned it. Why? - because I have the info I need, I know how to deal with it, I know what needs doing - I don't feel the need to post about it, maybe that's how the owners you are talking about feel about their dogs weight?

Dog obesity isn't black and white - it'd be great if it was, but it isn't. Elderly or injured dogs may be overweight because they cannot exercise properly (you can only reduce food so much), owners may have made mistakes with portion sizes etc - or the dog quite simply may have a medical reason - and, shock horror, the owner might not have told you about it!!!


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

kat&molly said:


> Goblin you have such a lovely way of wording things its so hard to disagree with something you've said
> However, regarding the weight unless you have been going through it for years some people have no idea.
> I cant be arsed to go through Jays problems again, I have done before and if anyone wants to search through for her photo it's there. The OP lumped everyone in to overfeeding , in more than 1 post.


Not once did I say that! I said that the dogs I'm talking about are without medical issues. I've said that before, about 3 times now


----------



## OllieBob (Nov 28, 2010)

In the area where I normally reside the amount of overweight dogs is increasing unfortunately. The owners are mostly in denial. Their owners are 'feeders', they like to see their doig enjoying food and give lots of treats, titbits, scraps as well as the normal dog food. Some go to 'slimming club' at the vets but they still don't get the fact that their daily ration is just that, ALL they should be eating, not giving them the dinner leftovers and numerous treats as well. I was horrified by the size of some of the dogs at one of the clinics but their owners seemed proud that their dog enjoyed eating lots. None of the dogs I know have any medical problems that would cause their weight problem. One flattie can't even trot let alone run, has flat feet and 'rolls' when he walks, he's only 2yrs old. He is 3 times the weight of my collie. Overfeeding to that extent is cruel. 
As for humans, yes medicines can cause weight gain but it can be controlled. I am on long term steroids but I make sure I don't put weight on by eating sensibly and watching my weight. I just have to accept that I need low calorie but high nutritional foods, so no take aways, pop, crisps, sweets etc. Not a problem to me. Many would feel deprived and say what the hell I have a reason to gain weight and continue to eat as they have aways done. It comes down to a personal choice. I eat to live, not live to eat.


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Shrap said:


> This thread was posted in the absence of others  think your logic has gone a bit backwards!


Who the hell do you think you are?!!!
What I am saying is that with threads like this there is no wonder pope do not ask for help and advice...where's the backward logic in that??....as I think someone else has pointed out also..yet you quote me....errr....again......which leads me to believe this is getting a little child like on your part as you're so obviously enjoying quoting my responses to get the reaction you so obviously enjoy.....


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

SixStar said:


> It can take a long time to get weight off a dog - weight doesn't go on over night, and it doesn't come off over night either. It's hard.
> 
> Again. Just because the owners do not mention it, does not mean it isn't there.
> 
> ...


Since when did "long period fo time" equal "overnight".

And as I already said, certain owners who have mentioned that nothing has ever been wrong with their dog. That suggests there isn't a medical issue.


----------



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

Shrap said:


> Since when did "long period fo time" equal "overnight".
> 
> And as I already said, certain owners who have mentioned that nothing has ever been wrong with their dog. That suggests there isn't a medical issue.


Ok, well, weight takes a ''long period of time'' to go on, so will take a ''long period of time'' to come off again - better? 

No, it just ''suggests'' they haven't posted about it. Not everyone posts every little detail of their or their dogs lives.

Previously, I have had a very narrow minded view of dogs weights - I have always in the past thought there were very few reasons good enough to justify a dog being overweight - that it was a case of too much food, too little walks. But, and I hope kat&molly won't mind me using her as an example - it was her little terrier that gave me the kick up the backside I needed to stop being so black and white about things. I know that kat&molly is a good owner, who does right by her dogs, feeds a good diet, exercises correctly, yet I know one of her dogs struggles with her weight - through a medical problem! *It's not always the owner not caring - nature can be cruel at times.*


----------



## kat&molly (Mar 2, 2011)

Shrap said:


> Not once did I say that! I said that the dogs I'm talking about are without medical issues. I've said that before, about 3 times now


I think you should read your own posts


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> Who the hell do you think you are?!!!
> What I am saying is that with threads like this there is no wonder pope do not ask for help and advice...where's the backward logic in that??....as I think someone else has pointed out also..yet you quote me....errr....again......which leads me to believe this is getting a little child like on your part as you're so obviously enjoying quoting my responses to get the reaction you so obviously enjoy.....


I quote people I'm replying to? Or I suppose you'd like me to just ignore your responses?

The backwards logic is that: the reason I posted this thread is because of the LACK of people asking for help or advice over it, yet still having fat dogs.


----------



## Shrap (Nov 22, 2010)

Tbh I'm out of this thread now. I've already said that I don't grudge owners with dogs with medical problems. Yet you keep accusing me of bundling them into the same group.


----------



## ballybee (Aug 25, 2010)

Jeesum crow....Shrap posted an opinion and this means everyone is allowed to have a go at her?

There's a lot of people who need to grow up, she's repeatedly said she's not having a go at dogs who have a medical reason for being fat and that she doesn't have a problem with people who have recognised that their dogs need to lose weight, the issue she has is people who have fat but otherwise healthy dogs and don't seem to be doing anything about it!!!!

Next time I see a fat dog I'll congratulate the owner for having a fat dog shall I? It's unacceptable, taking on a dog includes monitoring their diet and exercise, keep in kind the increasing number of people who have a dog because it's cute/handbag sized/well hard looking and decide not to walk their dogs for any decent length of time, I know 2 people, one has a cocker and the other has a rough collie, neither are walked and both are overweight. I've lived with an obese dog, my parents took her on after my aunt moved away and she was double the size she should have been...a good diet and 2 walks a day and she lost a lot of weight, sadly she was PTS at the age of 7 for joint problems and organ failure, the results of being so huge.

This thread has gone way too far, quite honestly I'm shocked at the attitudes and remarks I've seen tonight....god forbid someone days something about a rising problem eh?


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Shrap said:


> I quote people I'm replying to? Or I suppose you'd like me to just ignore your responses?
> 
> The backwards logic is that: the reason I posted this thread is because of the LACK of people asking for help or advice over it, yet still having fat dogs.


Yes but you are a very judgemental person and if a member was to need advice on problems with their dogs and then happened to come across threads like 'PF's Obese Dogs' in their search i suppose it would put them off asking for advice.
All my dogs could be 5 stone overweight and I wouldn't ask for advice after reading some of the comments on here.......Poor porky doggys... it's enough to make them want to put their paws down their throat.
Bye Bye


----------



## SixStar (Dec 8, 2009)

ballybee said:


> Jeesum crow....Shrap posted an opinion and this means everyone is allowed to have a go at her?


Shrap has voiced her opinion, other posters are voicing theirs. It's a discussion forum - it'd be very boring if we all agreed. If people are going to get upset and offended when someone disagrees with something they say, then god help them!


----------



## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Enough is enough ... closing this now


----------



## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

ballybee said:


> Jeesum crow....Shrap posted an opinion and this means everyone is allowed to have a go at her?
> 
> There's a lot of people who need to grow up, she's repeatedly said she's not having a go at dogs who have a medical reason for being fat and that she doesn't have a problem with people who have recognised that their dogs need to lose weight, the issue she has is people who have fat but otherwise healthy dogs and don't seem to be doing anything about it!!!!
> 
> ...


It isn't what person says....it is the way in which they put an opinion across that my or may not be offensive


----------

