# 8 days old still not much weight gain



## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Ok still got 5 strong kittens all of them are doing great except the smallest one still. His brothers and sisters all weigh between 120 and 145 but the smallest one is still at 65grams.eats well and still strong but only gained 10 grams in 8 days .i watched them earlier and the stronger ones are pushing him off the nipple so I decided today to try and get him to have a bit of replacement milk,to no avail. He just won't suck from the bottle and just struggles away from it. He's not very vocal and hardly hear a peep out of him unless mum is near and he will just crawl towards a nipple.i have seen him eat,loads! Any idea what the problem is really worried that I'm gunna loose him


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

You might have answered your own question.



> the stronger ones are pushing him off the nipple


However I'm not sure how your comment above fits with this:



> i have seen him eat,loads!


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm bad at trying to explain things lol whenever mum is with them I see him eat but watching him earlier I also see the others push him off was the first time I noticed it so I'm not sure if it's happening all the time or just that one time.i also noticed earlier when I THOUGHT he was eating he was just snuggled near a teat sleeping.im happy to start hand feeding but he doesn't take to the teat just getting really worried now


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## gskinner123 (Mar 10, 2010)

All you can really do is keep trying with the hand feeding and perhaps experiment with different feeding methods, i.e. a bottle or (very carefully) a 1ml syringe with no teat, or one of the glass Catac feeders. A veterinary check of a kitten, of this sort of age, under these circumstances, often reveals nothing.

As he's apparently gained no weight whatsoever I'm afraid it's possible he has some kind of underlying problem. I had a kitten in a litter earlier this year that was the same. Though his birth weight was average, he never gained more than a few grams here and there despite appearing to feed from his mother and never would take more than a fraction of a ml when hand fed. My vet could find nothing apparently wrong with him but we lost him at 10 days.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

You are aware that you must feed him in the position he feeds from his mum in, not on his back. On his back the milk can go down the wrong way and tiny kittens don't have a cough reflex so it ends up in the lungs where it causes aspiration pneumonia which is usually fatal.

I've heard that human babies that are used to being breast fed often don't like an artificial teat, if it's true for humans it might well be true for kittens.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Yeah I've read up on how to feed newborns,I'm happy that I have him in the right position it's just I'm unsure how far to put in the teat as he just seems to spits it back out.ive also tried using a syringe but coz he struggles I'm worried it will go down the wrong way .ill have a look online to see if I can buy anything that is easier to use I'm thinking in worse case I can take him to vets and they can maybe help with a feeding tube?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

A feeding tube doesn't stay in - the kitten is tubed for each feed.

Look at mum's nipples, compare them to the teat on the syringe or bottle and that should give you a clue how far to put it in.


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## Time flies (Jul 23, 2013)

If he's really trying and managing to get himself latched on but is just getting pushed off you could maybe leave him and one of the others with mum while he has his fill without any competition and then pop the others back in. You would have to do this a number of times a day and would only work if mum was happy staying with them for the second batch to have their feed too.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Ok that's I'll try that from today.just looked at him he's a lot weaker today doesn't move much when I hold him only when mum is with them and he crawls over to her, ain't heard any noise from him from the past couple of days


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

I would give this kitten nutridrops and plug him in to the back teat.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Where would I get them? I live near a partners pets so might give them a call.ive got 3 kittens with me at the at the moment while the smaller one and another one feed,he's feeding but he just don't seem right would it be worth a trip to the vet or would they just tell me what I already know :-(


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

you can find nutridrops online, this saved a very small kitten of mine recently.
Not saying it will work if the kitten does have problems inside that you cant see, some kittens sadly do die within 2 weeks of being born but at least you have then tried everything you could to save the kitten.

I hope all does go well for this little one.


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## wicket (Aug 22, 2012)

where are you Sammydeea? there might be a breeder near you that has nutridrops in the cupboard - I know i do.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm in Hertfordshire,looked online I could order some but not sure they would come in time :-( he's still sucking off mum but stops after a few mins,all the other babies are very strong and noisy this poor little mite just lays there :-( he's not being pushed out tho there all still keeping him warm


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Also this kitten had a difficult birth he was breach and was hanging out of mum for what felt like ages despite me trying to
Help,I had to revive him once he was born could this have anything to do with his development and the way he is?


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Does the kitten have noisy breathing to indicate fluid on lungs.

This kitten does need urgent help, sadly I live in Oxford and have everything here but it wouldn't arrive in time.

Maybe phone some breeders near you and ask if they have any nurtidrops, most breeders will help you save a kitten.

If you go to the vet ask them to give sub fluids this would also help.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

He made a clicking noise when he breathed for the first few days but that seems of of cleared I'll try and find some local breeders I know a lady up the road that breads cats I'll ask her when I see her later hopefully she has some.ill also get him to the vets.feel like I'm running out of time with him he weighs less than what a newborn kitten should weight I tried feeling him again but he just kept pulling away and don't wanna force incase it goes into his lungs


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

this is a photo of him next to his brother


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

He does look tiny but not the smallest kitten ive ever seen.

Have you tried putting him alone on the back full teat to see if he will feed, once plugged on if you gently rub the side of his face it will act as if another kitten is there and may encourage stronger suckling.

Other than nurtidrops which has saved some of my tiny kittens or tube feeding which is difficult I have found anyway, I don't know what to suggest.

Wish I lived nearer to you as I could have helped more.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

I put him on the back nipple earlier and held him Im place and stopped the others from pushing him off and I held him there till he fell asleep so he's feeding but still not gaining.ive just spoke to someone and they said try a bit of Syrup on the gums to get his energy up. I'm going to
Give it a try but still don't see how it would make him gain weigh.im starting to think maybe he has something going
On that I just can't see :-(


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Syrup is also good.

All you can do is try but there is a possibility of something going on which cant be seen.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

sammydeea said:


> I put him on the back nipple earlier and held him Im place and stopped the others from pushing him off and I held him there till he fell asleep so he's feeding but still not gaining.ive just spoke to someone and they said try a bit of Syrup on the gums to get his energy up. I'm going to
> Give it a try but still don't see how it would make him gain weigh.im starting to think maybe he has something going
> On that I just can't see :-(


I think you need to do this every 2-3 hours for a couple of days (yes, at night as well) before deciding it won't help.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

catcoonz said:


> Syrup is also good.
> 
> All you can do is try but there is a possibility of something going on which cant be seen.


Even sugar solution if you don't have any syrup or honey in the cupboard.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Ok got some syrup (golden syrup) hope that's ok.gave him a little and he's now back with mum feeding made sure the others ain't knocking him off I'll do this every two hours for as long as it takes I really hope it works


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If it's going to help I feel he would be perking up by tomorrow, starting to gain might take a little longer.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Ok I'll sit tight and just keep my fingers crossed.how much is ok just a drop? What happens if I give him a drop to much?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

How is he doing? Fingers are crossed.


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Hoping little one is feeding and perked up today.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

When I checked on them in the night little one was feeding without me helping looked at it as a good sign but this morning he seems even weaker still giving syrup but don't seem to be making any difference he's also down to 62 grams now :-(


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

oh dear, that doesn't sound good.

Did you get nurtidrops.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Nope not managed to get hold of any got another place I'm going to try this afternoon but I'm starting to loose hope.all the others are all chunky and this little one just looks like a baby mouse it's sad to see him struggling.got a feeling that if I take him to the vets there going to wanna put him to sleep and I don't wanna give up on him yet :-(


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

this is his sister 






his brother






and him :-( so small and dainty


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Oops that didn't come out right


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

sammydeea said:


> Nope not managed to get hold of any got another place I'm going to try this afternoon but I'm starting to loose hope.all the others are all chunky and this little one just looks like a baby mouse it's sad to see him struggling.got a feeling that if I take him to the vets there going to wanna put him to sleep and I don't wanna give up on him yet :-(


It's very sad, but sometimes it's the best for a kitten that's not thriving. :sad:


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

I know :-( gunna try for one more day and take him there.my vets are never very good I had to put my 9 year old boy down last year they said they couldn't do nothing and he was in pain but they never tried anything they just seemed to give up on him,don't want them doing the same to this little boy.i tried giving him some water earlier and he actually drank some and he's still good on the nipple but he's just getting weaker.im guessing if he's in pain I wouldn't even know


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

Have you tried ordering the nutridrops online?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

It's very difficult to do much for a tiny kitten. If it's dehydrated it can have fluid under it's skin, it can have oral antibiotics, it can be tube fed, it can be kept warm. Have you toiletted him yourself at all?


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

I get paid in the mornjng so ordering some then and hopefully it gets hear on time.ive held him to mum and she cleans him but I've not actually seen hi
Go I tried to do it last night and his belly went all hard for a few seconds until I stop I'm guessing he might be constipated I've gave him
Some boiled water earlier and he drank that on top of giving him syrup so I'm hoping he goes soon .one thing I've noticed he's also always wet down there not sure if this is where mum always cleans him


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

If he's only had mother's milk plus water plus sugar solution he shouldn't be constipated. Also I suspect he would be quite bloated after 8 days if he isn't passing stool. However... Does he pass anything if you toilet him?


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Nope I've seen nothing not even wee when trying he's just feeding from mum then I'm going to try running a warm tap over his bum to see if that helps if not I'm gunna take him to a different vets in the morning and pray for a miracle


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

He doesn't seem bloated I'll try get a photo ,his belly is soft but when I try to stimulate it goes hard like he tenses up


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

this is the best one I could get of his stomach he kept wiggling.i don't think it looks right the others seem all podgy and loads of fur


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

He looks dehydrated to me.

Can you hand rear ok just to top him up.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

I've tried to but he won't take the milk but I've tried giving him extra water inbetween meals and he took it gunna keep that up along with the syrup


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## jaycee05 (Sep 24, 2012)

Are you trying to feed with a syringe, if he wont take that, try with a pipette, like an eye dropper,sometimes it takes a while but put it to the side of his mouth its easier


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Ok I'll give that a try I'm just worried it's going to get into his lungs.my other problem is I'm worried I'm making it up wrong it says 1 part powder to 2 part water but it didn't come with a scoop so can I use a child's medicine spoon to measure it? Also what temp? I'm leaving it to cool so it doesn't burn but then it gets cold really quickly.also one more thing how much should I make him drink I'll post a pic of the bottle I've got.it goes up to 20mls but seems far to much!






so do I put the powder to 10ml and water up to the 20?


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## kiara (Jun 2, 2009)

What brand of milk are you using? Hope this helps with feeding amounts. x

http://www.maddiesfund.org/Document... Feeding Chart and Stomach Capacity Table.pdf


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## kiara (Jun 2, 2009)

Go to Boots or local chemist and get a 1ml syringe, much easier to use use as a tiny drop comes out at a time. x

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1...nge+without+needle&safe=off&tbm=isch&imgdii=_

Some how too videos

http://www.maddiesfund.org/Maddies_Institute/Videos/Orphaned_Kitten_Care_How_to.html


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm using cimicat.already got a syringe so I'll sterilise it and use that


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## kiara (Jun 2, 2009)

sammydeea said:


> I'm using cimicat.already got a syringe so I'll sterilise it and use that


OK so Cimicat is 1 part milk 3 parts water.

so one level spoon of the powder to 3 level spoons of water. if you are using a child's 5 ml medicine spoon then that works out 5 mg of powder and 15 ml of water.

I would store the made up milk in the fridge (will be OK for 24hrs) and warm up required amounts by putting it in the bottle and standing the bottle in boiled water, testing frequently on the back of your wrist.

You want to feed no more then 4 ml every 3 hours and see how he goes.

Weigh him before you start and again in 24 hours.

You must remember to wind him after, do this by placing him on your shoulder, belly down, like you would a baby, and tap his back with 2 fingers until he burps.


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## kiara (Jun 2, 2009)

Also if bubbles of milk come out of his nose then you are feeding him too quickly, its best to aim for 0.1 ml each mouthful.

If you lift his skin behind his neck does it stay up or snap back into place quickly?

If the skins stays up, he is dehydrated, so i would make the milk up by substituting half the boiled water for sugar water solution. (5 mg milk powder, 8 ml boiled water, 7 ml sugar solution)

If you have a digital thermometer milk temp should be 38c/100.4F


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## kiara (Jun 2, 2009)

Some images of positions to hold kitten when feeding.


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## lisajjl1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Cimiciat is good and the mixing protocol is one level scoop to 20ml of cooled boiled water...however...you are not going to need anywhere near these amounts each feed as your baby at his weight will need only around 2ml's per feed and my advice based on raising small kittens, one of whom was only 42g, is that the baby will need feeding little and often. 

I can usually work out a quarter of a level scoop to 5ml water and I keep the mix slightly weaker for tiny babies to combat dehydration as cimicat is a food not a fluid so if the baby is dehydrated just putting food in will cause constipation.

Personally I would be feeding this kitten every 2 hours round the clock, 2ml feed each time, ensuring kitten was warm before feeding and checking milk temp on my inner wrist, human baby style, milk should be warm not hot and definitely not cold.

I use a 1ml syringe...sometimes it can be painstaking but if you persevere drop by drop you may have some success, don't try too much at once as kitten will be overwhelmed and as you know risk getting milk in wrong place, if the kitten will only take 1ml of the feed I let kitten rest them try again after an hour with the other 1ml to try to keep the food intake reglar and steady at 2ml's per 2 hours.

I rough the kittens up while I am feeding them with a piece of soft towel to try to seem like Mum, rub tummies, heads, bottoms etc - also serves to toilet them too and seems to keep them livelier if you try feeding for a few minutes then if not interested give them a rub up then try feeding again.

After feeding I always put back on to Mum, usually take a bigger kitten off a teat so that the smaller kitten doesn't have to work too hard as the milk has already been pulled down by the bigger one.

A gain is a gain and even if kitten only gains 1g per day its still a gram in the right direction and you know what your doing is working to some extent....sometimes just a few grams extra makes all the difference and as the kitten gets stronger will be more profficient at feeding from Mum but its going to take a lot of commitment and if you can get any help from someone experienced grab it with both hands.

I would also have wanted antibiotics to cover as the clicking sound you mentioned at birth seems indicative of something inhaled into the lungs and the lack of weight gain could be due to low grade infection....only a vet can tell you this and also examine the kitten for any anomaly you may be unfamiliar with even though I see you have checked for cleft palate etc there are other problems that can occur that a vet may be able to diagnose even at such a young age although realistically in most cases not a lot can be done. 

As has been said sometimes no matter what you do some babies just aren't meant to be, unfortunately heartbreak is part and parcel of breeding.

Wishing you luck.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

You have all been so much help.just prepared a bottle up and will put little drops a time and see if it helps shall I give him syrup befor or after the feed?will set my alarm through out the night to feed him.mum and his siblings are keeping him nice and warm so not worried about his temp but thankyou all again gunna give him a bit of milk now and pray that he puts on even 1gram by morning


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Hmmm, I wonder if this kitten isn't properly developed? The fact that he's not even weeing when you toilet him suggests not, as kittens wee at the drop of a hat, sometimes even when you just pick them up. If he hasn't got an anus etc, then the kindest thing to do would be to let him go peacefully.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

That's exactly what I was thinking,maybe he's not developed properly on the inside I weighed him again tonight and he's gone down to 59grams.i have been feeding him like you all said and he actually made a little squeak first time I've heard a noise from him all day but he's hardly moving now .during me feeding it was like he kept going limp and wouldn't even swallow
Then after about 30 secs he would start wriggling again.im preparing myself for the worst tonight if he's still with us In the morning I'm going to
Go to the vets with him and let him go :-(


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

And yeah he has a Anus but I've never seen anything come out of either end only noticed today while been trying to stimulate him even ran his bum under warm water and he just lay there is so heart wrenching to watch him just fade away .ive tried to see if he's dehydrated by his neck but there is hardly any skin to check


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

Unfortunately he lost his fight early hours of this morning :-( tried my hardest but I need to except that these things happen :-( heartbroken


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

So sorry for your loss


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

RIP Little One xxxx

Sorry and hugs to you, sadly nature is so cruel but you tried your best. x


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Sorry though sadly not surprised to hear this. I hope the others cheer you up in due course.


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## sammydeea (Jul 31, 2011)

It's amazing how a kitten so young and small can rip your heart into a million pieces,the other 4 are doing brilliant all weigh around 200grams so hopefully it's uphill from hear.but it sucks loosing the little one he didn't seem In any pain and went peacefully


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Yes, sadly some kittens simply fade very early. I fostered a litter of four all of whom did this.


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## Sherylina (Sep 17, 2012)

So sorry to hear this. I suspect there was nothing you could have done to stop this little one fading and it is just one of those things.


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## Polski (Mar 16, 2014)

It happens, the fact that it happens doesn't make it any easier though. Big hugs.


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## Forester (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear this although I was really expecting it. You did everything you could for the poor little one but it was not meant to be. 

RIP little kitten and ((( Hugs ))) to you.


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## Gratch (Aug 22, 2010)

So sorry for your loss  RIP little kitten x


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