# Is this an acceptable show item?



## catgirlforever (Jan 12, 2018)




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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Probably for our show but not if you want to show under John Hansson! I was under the impression that sewn beds are now allowed but it may be better to be safe and use vetbed and/or white blankets.

This is the rule in the schedule.

*Exhibitors must provide each exhibit with clean

white blankets, without distinctive marking or edging, to lie on. (Vetbed or similar material with green or

white backing may be used if preferred) Cellular blankets are not allowed. Each exhibit must have a white

food bowl, white water bowl with fresh water and a white litter tray with the exhibit's normal litter.*


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## catgirlforever (Jan 12, 2018)

QOTN said:


> Probably for our show but not if you want to show under John Hansson! I was under the impression that sewn beds are now allowed but it may be better to be safe and use vetbed and/or white blankets.
> 
> This is the rule in the schedule.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I will adhere strictly to what the schedule says to be on the safe side.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Having struggled to get cats & kittens out of various nests of various depth, please always use blankets. The worst are the ones with the cover that ties to the top of the pen - if all else fails with the others one can try to take the cat out in it's nest.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

OrientalSlave said:


> The worst are the ones with the cover that ties to the top of the pen


It seems to be the pet hate of judges at the moment


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

havoc said:


> It seems to be the pet hate of judges at the moment


Judge should be issued with a pair of scissors for those beds.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

OrientalSlave said:


> Judge should be issued with a pair of scissors for those beds.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

I am amazed anybody buys one. I believe they are very expensive and surely you still have to have a vetbed or similar on the base of the pen.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

They’re a typical example of something made to appeal to humans rather than to enhance life for the animal.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

When we took Jammy to her first show we had a blanket and some vet bed, but we bought a bed like the one @catgirlforever posted when we were there. Have to say Jammy was much more at ease with that than just the blanket.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

You aren’t there when a steward or judge is struggling to get the cat out to be judged though. It adds to the stress of both animal and human. Igloo style beds have their place - it isn’t the show bench.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Psygon said:


> When we took Jammy to her first show we had a blanket and some vet bed, but we bought a bed like the one @catgirlforever posted when we were there. Have to say Jammy was much more at ease with that than just the blanket.


Donut beds like those in the first pic are not so much of a problem. It is the hammock type ones that hang from the top of the pen.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Donut beds like those in the first pic are not so much of a problem. It is the hammock type ones that hang from the top of the pen.


And the deep beds some people are using.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> And the deep beds some people are using.


In my experience those really deep beds are not popular with the cats. I was given a huge one which is hardly used. I thought it was because I put it on the floor but even when I tried it on furniture they still avoided it, so I suspect the cats in show pens only use them because they have no choice.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I've found circular beds are fab, take bed + cat out, remove cat from bed on the table. Much easier than trying to get out a cat hiding in the corner


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

I used to use beds like the OP shows in the picture and I never had a problem. They are very low sides and not much different to a blanket. I was never told not to.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

The Chairman of the GCCF is on the warpath about beds. I am not sure if it is all beds but I would not recommend falling out with him over something trivial. (An important issue is a different matter and worth the hassle in my experience.)


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

I’ve always used them and I’ve always carried on using them since the donut bed war started. I no longer use the deep set type though I only use the shallow cheap flimsy one from Crystal Clear. I find giving Harley a bed settles her down a lot better, without one she’s pacing and doesn’t know where to settle. 

If I take my new one out I’ll probably try him without a bed and see how he is.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

As I explained to someone only a few weeks ago when the class was full of very high quality entries and hotly contested and the judge told me afterwards how difficult she'd found it to choose BoB (i wasn't showing, the judge is a friend). It comes down to the smallest of things that can make the difference. I've known one judge admit it came down to the pen with the whitest whites when they couldn't choose between two. Why then would you push against the rules and give a judge any reason to put your cat second? It may not even be a concious thing and I want to make it clear it isn't about punishing or making a point. It's more that doing it right or wrong may unconciously affect a judge's mindset so why not give you and your cat every chance. It's part of the presentation just like grooming or clipping claws.


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## Psygon (Apr 24, 2013)

havoc said:


> As I explained to someone only a few weeks ago when the class was full of very high quality entries and hotly contested and the judge told me afterwards how difficult she'd found it to choose BoB (i wasn't showing, the judge is a friend). It comes down to the smallest of things that can make the difference. I've known one judge admit it came down to the pen with the whitest whites when they couldn't choose between two. Why then would you push against the rules and give a judge any reason to put your cat second? It may not even be a concious thing and I want to make it clear it isn't about punishing or making a point. It's more that doing it right or wrong may unconciously affect a judge's mindset so why not give you and your cat every chance. It's part of the presentation just like grooming or clipping claws.


I hadn't really thought about it like that to be honest, does make me think for our next show I might reconsider using it. Will see. Jammy was much more comfy with it, but we can always put it in her pen after the main judging if she seems to be a bit angsty.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Judges should not be using the pen to decide on who wins the BOB, I'm sorry but that is appalling. They are judging the cat, not the cat's container.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Judges should judge according to the rules. If you have two cats of equal merit that you cannot separate on looks then presentation becomes an issue. If hard rules were applied then judges would be quite entitled to discount any cat where the penning didn’t comply.

I completely understand the views of John Hansson on this.

Eta: I’m not surprised that someone jumped in all serious and outraged. The reality is it’s a beauty contest, just a beauty contest and nothing more. If the rules in a human version were that women had to parade in one piece swimsuits then nobody would question the idiot who insisted on wearing a bikini being marked down or even disqualified. If people want to parade their cats to be judged on their looks then why should they not comply with the equivalent rules of presentation?


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

This is such a hotly debated topic I’ve read through the extensive arguments on Facebook regarding the bed or not to bed. I stand with the people who say if my cat in my eyes requires a bed and the judge wants to spit their dummy out over it then just skip my cat and don’t dramatise anything. 

I actually just don’t put my cats under bed hating judges now to miss the issue but I still think that it there are some cats who need beds. Aka my Harley if I didn’t give her one of the cheap little donuts from crystal clear she would be climbing the walls, give her a bed and she settles.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Years ago exhibitors used to wind several blankets into a circle and, in effect, make a bed for their cats without breaking any rules. Somebody tried to teach me but I am too clumsy. In any case, when somebody made one for The Pig, he undid it almost immediately so I gave up worrying about it. I am not sure how the Chairman would react to one of those DIY beds these days but there was never any complaint at that time. I do understand about the hammocks and the very deep beds but sometimes cats will bring their vetbed or blanket with them when they are taken out of the pen.


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

BritishBilbo said:


> I stand with the people who say if my cat in my eyes requires a bed and the judge wants to spit their dummy out over it then just skip my cat and don't dramatise anything


So get the rules changed. I have no heartache with a simple bed in and of itself. I do have heartache with members and judges sticking two fingers up to the rule book. Shows are our main interface with the public and currently we're sending out the clear message that it's perfectly acceptable to pick and choose which GCCF rules suit you. How does that fit with telling the public it's worthwhile seeking out a GCCF registered kitten?


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Everyone who thinks anything beyond a shallow donut bed is acceptable should go stewarding, and continue until they meet cats in massively deep beds. Thankfully the huge Maine Coon boys I've had to get out are usually on just one thing blanket. Of course exhibitors don't have problems with their own cats, but that's not the point. At least it's now a requirement to clip claws.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I think there is far bugger rule flouting in GCCF that whether or not there's a bed in a pen


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## havoc (Dec 8, 2008)

Rufus15 said:


> I think there is far bugger rule flouting in GCCF that whether or not there's a bed in a pen


Absolutely there is - and people know they'll get away with it because rule flouting is publicly condoned. Once the line is crossed it's easy to just keep going.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

There are far more important rules being broken at shows that even beginners in the cat fancy must notice. What about the judges who give top awards to cats who do not conform to the SOP and often have deformities in the veterinary defects list? The Board would do well to tackle those issues first.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

Beds are a drop in the pond, but it doesn't surprise me in the least that the Chairman is focusing on it rather than the big issues in the Cat Fancy. Not least the enormous drop in show entries. Two shows in two weekends have almost had to cancel due to low entries. I would rather see, and handle, a show full of beds than have no show at all.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

What makes you think beds are the only think the Chairman is focussing on? It might be the only thing you are noticing him focussing on, but that's very, very different.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> What makes you think beds are the only think the Chairman is focussing on? It might be the only thing you are noticing him focussing on, but that's very, very different.


Agreed the tentacles are far reaching but, since you mention it, apart from the bed debate, perhaps a focus on the most important issues might be more beneficial than some of the other preoccupations.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Agreed the tentacles are far reaching but, since you mention it, apart from the bed debate, perhaps a focus on the most important issues might be more beneficial than some of the other preoccupations.


I suspect that everyone has a different view on what the 'important issues' are. However personally I'm fed up with the people who complain - about anything - and have a host of reasons why they can't possibly help in any way whatsoever.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

OrientalSlave said:


> *I suspect that everyone has a different view on what the 'important issues' are.* However personally I'm fed up with the people who complain - about anything - and have a host of reasons why they can't possibly help in any way whatsoever.


Agreed, but few would think personal vendettas should play a part.

On the wider issue of people complaining, the Board are mainly to blame for that because, ever since the GCCF became a limited company, it has tried to minimise the power of council to make decisions.

Obviously it would be desirable for more breeders and exhibitors to take part in running clubs but, there again, it is generally a thankless task.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

QOTN said:


> Obviously it would be desirable for more breeders and exhibitors to take part in running clubs but, there again, it is generally a thankless task.


And for them to step up to becoming judges, to stewarding, to putting out rosettes, to helping run shows, even to entering their cats. Unfortunately there seem to be quite a few owners who seem to be bad losers.

The worse I know of said to me that a cat that was judged BoV in both of the shows at a double show was 'past his sell-by date'.


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## BritishBilbo (Jul 19, 2015)

I too think theres much more wrong with the GCCF than just a bed scenario. What worries me as a fairly newcomer to shows (I've been showing 2 years) is when somebody who has nothing to do with showing apart from taking her occasional cat says to me before a show. This show in question is set up for such and such to win it. A week later and the show in question and the cat in question wins the whole thing even though in the BIS line up it was against cats in most peoples eyes - better fitting for the SOP. It wasn't a good punt by this woman, she knew that cat was going to win, who told her I don't know but she got it bang on.
I just hope what I'm hearing about the Supreme and who is apparently being set up to win that isn't true, I didn't particularly believe it but the cat and owner in question just now happens the schedule is out to have their best friend judging the cat in BOV.

Sure its just rumours but even in my short time showing I can see judges picking cats who are worse than others just because they're friends with that owner, or own one of their cats themselves, etc. Then you see things like cats with pattern faults winning handfulls of BIS and theres a very obvious and serious pattern fault on it yet nobody calls it out on them, also a cat bred by a judge. I dunno I just see a lot of things I'm abit like.... what?!

I'll still go though, whilst I can because I enjoy the day out, my cats are my precious pets winning is nothing to me. Even with all that moaning I do want to support the gccf ad I will keep going, it would be a shame to lose it but if they don't change things with the amount of people going to TICA they are going to have next to no exhibitors soon.


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## QOTN (Jan 3, 2014)

Sorry to be a cynic but I cannot imagine that any defectors from GCCF to TICA are leaving because of the way the GCCF is run or because there is no bias in judging at TICA shows.


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## Rufus15 (Dec 4, 2015)

I can state with absolute certainty that there is much more cheating and bias in TICA than GCCF. Whilst some GCCF judges may not be 100% credible, it's true, I have seen outright cheating in TICA that I have never seen in GCCF


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