# Inappropriate Toileting...Please Help!



## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

I have a 5 year old female cat, Bo, who for most of her life has periods of peeing/pooping where she shouldn't. She's been spayed. Prior to being spayed she was very affectionate, was a lap cat, used the tray no problem. 

After spay she was no longer affectionate and seemed to become a moody teenager. I got her whilst I lived in a shared house so has always been around people. 

Some time later she started peeing on my bed, curtains, rugs and in the bath. Got her checked at the vet and no uti so put down to behavior.
I got her a second tray, both covered, played with litter and eventually she stopped and went back to just using the tray. 

At 2 we moved to our own place. Still good at the tray and no accidents. 

I then got Boris, planned a slow intro, separate rooms etc. However she seemed to be quite stressed at being able to hear him and not see him. She started peeing and pooping in the hall by the front door. Bless her she was so stressed and I felt so guilty. Feliway, zyklene and letting her see him seemed to solve the problem. 
Nope. A little while later my bed was getting it again as were my bath mats and the hall. Same routine, played with trays, made sure we had 3, played with litter, and just praised her loads when she used the tray. 

After a year at that place we moved as landlord was selling. Surprisingly she coped well with the move. No accidents until my boyfriend started staying more. Then it was back to the front door. 

Unfortunately after 6 months the landlord was moving back in so we moved again. This time my boyfriend came with us (and left again 4 months later). Again move went well. No accidents. Housemate moved in after my ex moved out with her mostly outdoors cat. They got on. No accidents. 

Until now. She's going by the front door again. I can always tell when she needs the tray so when I spot that she's needing to go I walk to the tray with her, she follows and goes in quite happily. It's almost like she needs my reassurance. But I'm not always there as I work. 

She's still not overly affectionate though that is getting better. At night she's in with me and sleeps on my bed. Boris is shut out of my room as he's just too boisterous at night! Still no lap cat tho the other morning she sat on me for the first time since her spay for 10 mins...puring...kneading! I could have squealed. 

She's a bit jumpy at times, not great with other people (unless they feed her), hates to be picked up/held. She will have moments of affection with me, she'll let me stroke her belly and rest my hand between her back legs on her stomach and right now she's curled up as close as she can get without actually being on me. 

I've run out of ideas. I have feliway. I clean the area with simple solution or urine off but she keeps going back. Foil or citrus don't deter her. She doesn't meow in the tray. 
Any other suggestions?
Does she just seem like an anxious cat?

Help!! I want a happy cat. 
Ta x


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Poor love what a lot of changes she's had. You are the only stability she's had all the way through and it sounds like you are her safety and her guide. How long has it been stable as you, her, Boris, housemate and housemate's cat?


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

Myself and my cats have been here 18 months. It's been a year as all of us. Generally my housemates cat is either out or in her room. When the cats do see each other they have a sniff and carry on with their business. 

I'd like to stay here for as long as possible but it's not a place I can afford on my own hence the housemate. So I either carry on when it comes to contract renewal or find somewhere for just the 3 of us. But that's another change. 

I love my cats so much and would do anything for them so it saddens me that I've caused this with all the changes in her 5 years.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Sometimes we can't help things like having to move - esp if we're renting so don't beat yourself up about that.... 

What do you feed her?


I know not everyone likes dry BUT Royal Canin Calm has worked wonders with Mia (history of aggression - basically all fear related). It's also settled Archie down too 

Both have free access to it - and it's quite funny as some days neither of them will touch it and others one of their bowls will practically be eaten in full  (they are totally separated so I know who's eating what!) it's almost like they know it helps.

I also use Zyklene for Mia which has been an absolute life-saver


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

Thank you.

They're fed raw with felini. I'll look at the dry, I've tried really hard not to give them any but if it helps...I'll give anything a go at the moment!

I'll also try the zyklene again I think.


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

LittleOne83 said:


> Myself and my cats have been here 18 months. It's been a year as all of us. Generally my housemates cat is either out or in her room. When the cats do see each other they have a sniff and carry on with their business.
> 
> I'd like to stay here for as long as possible but it's not a place I can afford on my own hence the housemate. So I either carry on when it comes to contract renewal or find somewhere for just the 3 of us. But that's another change.
> 
> I love my cats so much and would do anything for them so it saddens me that I've caused this with all the changes in her 5 years.


Hey woah please don't be so hard on yourself, you didn't make all those changes. I wasn't suggesting you caused this in any way at all, you've had all of this to endure too. I was wondering how long Bo's world had been settled before something happened in her head to make her go outside her tray again. It sounds like she is fine with her living companions now and if you are happy that it can stay the way it is then you have a solid building block to start from 

This is a strange thought but please bear with me. She has not been a lap cat ever since she was spayed, but recently she has sat on your lap for the first time since. And she has pooped outside her tray again. Did these two things happen at the same sort of time by any chance?


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

Oh no I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting that I caused this. Just expressing how I feel about the situation as a whole. 

Actually yes they did both happen at a similar time. Although the peeing a few weeks before the sitting on my lap. What are you thinking?


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

LittleOne83 said:


> Oh no I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting that I caused this. Just expressing how I feel about the situation as a whole.
> 
> Actually yes they did both happen at a similar time. Although the peeing a few weeks before the sitting on my lap. What are you thinking?


That's starting to sound quite funny 

Well my Molly loves and craves affection but she really struggles to accept it, psychologically. I was wondering if it might be possible your Bo might be going through something like that, like she wants to be on your lap and be closer but for some reason it causes her anxiety? It sounds like you are so much her anchor and she really trusts you but if she felt insecure about everything else, but safe enough to want to be on your lap because she's safe with you - I don't even know if I'm making any sense to myself let alone anyone else?

Like if the situation around that you're both in is stable enough for her to feel ok and she's perfectly ok with you, but there was something at the back of her mind making her feel vulnerable. Weird idea I know


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Littleone, you say Bo started this toiletting problem after she was spayed. I am wondering if there is anything significant in that. What age was she spayed, e.g. normal time of around 6 mths, or later ?

It could be that the initial cause was due to post-operative pain or discomfort after her spay, which made it uncomfortable for her to pass urine or empty her bowels. So she began to associate the litter tray with pain.

Although she may not have a UTI as such she could have a condition called feline idiopathic lower urinary tract disease, which is often linked with stress.

Also, does she have normal bowel function? Sometimes constipation can cause inappropriate toiletting because of the pressure on the bladder.

If she is stressed it may not be due to the changes she's been through, (as you have been a constant in her life, and given her a sense of security) but possibly more to do with the dynamics of her relationship with the other cats in the household. For example it may that one of your cats is making it difficult for Bo to use the litter trays, i.e. a territorial issue, particularly if you have another female cat. This behaviour might be very subtle, not something you would necessarily notice unless you watched for it. The fact Bo will go to the tray when accompanied by you, may mean she feels 'safe' to go if you're there.

As you've tried a number of possible solutions with only limited success I would lean towards consulting a pet behaviourist who would come to your home and observe the way your cats interact with each other and you. S/he would then give you guidelines for changes within the home that may help Bo feel more confident.

These people are good: 
CAPBT - COAPE Association of Pet Behaviourists and Trainers

If you have pet insurance most policies allow for referrals to a behaviourist as long as the referral comes from a vet. If not, then you may only need one session at home, and a follow-up by phone or email, so not a huge expense, and could be worth every penny if it helps.


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

LittleOne83 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> They're fed raw with felini. I'll look at the dry, I've tried really hard not to give them any but if it helps...I'll give anything a go at the moment!
> 
> I'll also try the zyklene again I think.


Oh no, stick with the raw. Carb laden dry food isn't going to help her. She does sound a very sensitive temperament kitty, but as has been said it's not your fault, life happens, you are doing all you can to help her have stabilization. Thank goodness she is with you, who cares, and are willing to work with her, and not someone with less understanding or patience.

I agree with Chillminx that there may be some stress related physical issues happening, which causes the periodic litter box avoidance.

Have you tried adding an uncovered box? A brand new box or two, completely different style may help her disassociate the litter box with discomfort.


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

ForeverHome: At least she didn't pee whilst on me! I completely understand what you're saying and I suspect this is mostly psychological.

Chillmix: Bo was spayed late as I was completely naive and uneducated at the time thinking as she was indoors it wouldn't matter if it was done at 6 months or later...until I read otherwise and got her in. Unfortunately she'd already been in heat once having come into contact with tom cat urine on some washing that came into the house. I know better now.

No bowel issues, goes every couple of days (raw diet) and doesn't seem to strain or have discomfort.

My other cat is a boy, Boris. He tends to leave her be when she's in the tray. Sometimes he chases her afterwards if he's in a playful mood but not that often. My housemates cat is a girl who has been spayed but does all her toileting outside and doesn't go in the room with trays at all.

Thanks for the link, unfortunately my area seems to only have dog behaviorists but I'll get in touch with my vet and see if they know of anyone to recommend.

Lorilu: Will have a look at different boxes. Thinking about it she has only had covered so perhaps an uncovered may make a difference. She always struck me as wanting privacy so although we've tried different trays they've always been covered.

Oh...and it's rude to be talking about her without introductions...meet my girl Bo:


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

WOW what a gorgeous girl! 

Well I guess take steps as a precaution as if there was a physical problem once, as suggested, and for the rest I'm sure your attentiveness and loving patience will eventually help her through the other side of it. 

When she's been somewhere inappropriate does she act like nothing at all or does she look uneasy about it? I don't like to call it looking 'guilty' because it's more that they don't like going outside the tray not that they think they are going to be told off!


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

If she's caught she looks uneasy. I make a conscious effort to ignore it and act like nothing's happened then casually clean it up. 

Yeah she's a stunner!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

She is really beautiful LittleOne:001_wub::001_wub::001_wub: I have a weakness for longhaired or semi-longhaired B & W cats. There are 2 of them in the Shelter atm, and I am completely smitten! 

As Bo only had one heat before she was spayed I can't see it have any bearing on her current problems. 

I certainly agree with those who have suggested trying different trays. It is always worth looking at possible environmental causes such as the type of tray, and also equally important - the type of litter being used. 

Covered trays are not always tall enough for adult cats, and Bo looks quite a big girl. A covered tray needs to be at least 46 cm tall inside, to give the cat enough headroom when they squat to poo. 

Litter should be soft on paws and easy to dig in. A depth of about 5 cm to 
6 cm is best. Clumping is best, as it stops the whole of the tray becoming contaminated with urine. I use Cats Best Oko Plus for my cats, other members prefer Worlds Best for their cats and some prefer Golden Grey. 

Would it be possible to provide 2 separate open trays for Bo to which Boris has no access? Just in case sharing is an issue for Bo?


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

We currently have 2 of these Catit Jumbo White Tiger Litter Box: Free P&P on orders of £25+ at zooplus!
They have one each and there's certainly no sharing. Bo used Boris' tray once when I was cleaning hers, the look he gave her was priceless! They also have worlds best extra strength, although could probably go back to normal now as they're on raw and no smell.

There isn't really anywhere that I can separate them due to house layout etc. At the moment they have the 3rd bedroom for their trays and it's a low traffic area (no other furniture, just some toys and scratch post). I did used to have one in the bathroom but my housemate got annoyed with that so both in the bedroom now. Not sure she'll be amenable to having one anywhere else.

I might try having a 3rd in my room but she doesn't have unsupervised access just in case my bed gets it again. Can still use it when I'm around though.

Thanks for your suggestions x


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)

Just put the uncovered trays with the other boxes. To establish ownership, scoop out some litter from "her" box and put it in the new one


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

Oooh never thought of doing that, thanks lorilu :thumbup1:


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

I have a different design corner one that's covered and should have a door but it didn't have a door, I can't imagine my two going in it if the door was on as they are both big and like to look out as they poo. That's the poo one. The open one is the pee one


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

Haha cats are funny old things!

So I have Zyklene, a second Feliway diffuser and some deterrent spray for her 'spot' on the way. Also thinking of trying the pet remedy diffuser and a Valerian liquid supplement (she's always quite chilled after a roll around with her Valerian toys). Just an open tray to order and I may try Golden Grey as that's one we've not tried in the past


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

ohhhhhh, she is just _adorable_.
I have had a few issues with weeing in the house recently and one of my solutions has been an extra tray in an area that was being soiled. I bought a large clear plastic storage box and cut an access hole in the end. It is big enough for any cat to turn round comfortably, and being clear without a roof...any cat using it can keep an eye out for any possible threats in the environment.
I use OKO mainly, but this tray has Golden Grey in and all the cats seem to like using it.


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

I would put a tray where she's been going but it's right by the door in the corner at the hinges so we'd be unable to open it. Such a madam! Good job I love her!

Genius idea with the box. Has it helped?

Watching her just now she does walk up to the tray then hesitates at the door, a lot of the time I hold it for her and let go as she's half way in. Occasionally she'll do it herself. Hadn't twigged this before, just did it. Might take the door/lid off in the morning and see how she goes.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I am so, so silly, I forgot to ask you if you'd left the doors on the covered trays!! It's the very first thing I should have thought of as many cats hate using those trays with the doors on them. They feel trapped when they are inside with the door shut because they can't see out to monitor what's going on outside. It goes against their instincts to make themselves so vulnerable.

LittleOne, you may inadvertently have found the answer! Take the door flaps off the trays, and also provide an open tray as an extra.

Incidentally, I see you provide 2 trays - one tray for each cat, but the fact is many cats will not pee and poo in the same tray, and Bo may be one of those cats, so therefore she needs 2 trays to herself. Boris may be fine with one tray of his own.


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

Er, that's ok, you're welcome


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

The clear storage box has helped enormously. It was from Ikea, but most cheap furniture stores sell something similar.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

LittleOne83 said:


> We currently have 2 of these Catit Jumbo White Tiger Litter Box: Free P&P on orders of £25+ at zooplus!





LittleOne83 said:


> Might take the door/lid off in the morning and see how she goes.


I have these trays 

I took the doors off straight away (neither of mine like them) - and have also folded back the lid bit (where you can open it to clean it)

Mia does fine with it - Archie prefers the whole lid off


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

So took the door off this morning before my 12 hour shift. Came back and it appears she's used the tray. 

When we went upstairs she walked into her room and kept looking at me to follow. Walked up to the tray...and sat down. Staring at it. Rather than giving her a gentle nudge, I took the whole lid off...straight in no hesitation!

She seem to prefer an open tray! It would have never occurred to me to try that so thank you and fingers crossed it works!


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Excellent news & fingers crossed it continues to go well

Its funny as archie's tray just fits in between the loo & the wall - so its surrounded on 3 sides (same as a lid being on) but he seems happier with it like that compared to the actual lid being on (even with it 1/2 open)


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

LittleOne83 said:


> > When we went upstairs she walked into her room and kept looking at me to follow. Walked up to the tray...and sat down. Staring at it.
> 
> 
> Bless her, she must have been trying to tell you what the problem was with the tray for ages!


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## LittleOne83 (Jun 17, 2011)

chillminx said:


> LittleOne83 said:
> 
> 
> > Bless her, she must have been trying to tell you what the problem was with the tray for ages!
> ...


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## ForeverHome (Jan 14, 2014)

LittleOne83 said:


> Yup! If only cats could talk hey?!


They can, we just have to learn to listen


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## lorilu (Sep 6, 2009)




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