# Paris attacks



## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Awful news coming out of Paris tonight, SIX seperate shootings, 100 people being held hostage. French borders closed, reports 60 people killed so far

Good god horrendus


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

It's just awful. OH is downstairs watching the news channels, I'm so tired but will check my phone for the news before u nod off in bed now. I really am in a state of shock.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Match at Stade de France, you can hear a bomb go off 

http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/monde/story/On-entend-une-bombe-exploser-en-plein-match-27994743


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## ZoeM (Jul 16, 2015)

Horrific. Coordinated for maximum effect. Knowing that the football is international, and people in stadium and concert hall sitting targets. 

So tragic...


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Praying for the safe release of the hostages.


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Absolutely horrendous. The world has gone mad.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Terrible. No where Is safe these days it seems 

Just found this - http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/france-vs-...ris-hotel-after-anonymous-bomb-threat-1528595

Looks like the threat wasn't just a threat


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

An assault has just been launched on tha concert hall.


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## poohdog (May 16, 2010)

_*Without exception every world leader has sent condolences and prayers to the people of France....It would seem that the Christian and Islamic Gods are not receiving messages at the moment.*_


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## Hanwombat (Sep 5, 2013)

Absolutely terrible


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Shocking news, my thoughts are with the french people.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Terrible news, what on earth is the world coming to.Seems no where is safe these days.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

hideous. Peace for Paris


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Brother in law has family there. Just emailed to find out if they are safe


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## Ceiling Kitty (Mar 7, 2010)

My heart goes out to Paris.


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

Desperately sad, and will cause more division between faiths. So unfair on ordinary Muslims who simply want to live their lives in peace, just like everyone else.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I have no words for Paris this morning.

It is truly heartbreaking and my thoughts this morning have been with the friends, family and loved ones of the 128 (as it stands) dead, 99 in critical conditions and 200 or so injured people.

I hope if anyone has friends or relatives in the area that they are able to make contact and reassurance for their safety.


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## Jellypi3 (Jan 3, 2014)

My mum and brothers live near there, thankfully all safe, but they said it's horrific. Those poor people.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Awful shocking news - those poor people and their families; the poor hostages. I hope that they are released soon and unharmed.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

lostbear said:


> Awful shocking news - those poor people and their families; the poor hostages. I hope that they are released soon and unharmed.


The hostage situation is over thankfully. Police/armed forces stormed the building last night and the gunmen were killed. I think many of the hostages were killed/injured sadly. This seems to be where the biggest death toll was


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Nettles said:


> The hostage situation is over thankfully. Police/armed forces stormed the building last night and the gunmen were killed. I think many of the hostages were killed/injured sadly. This seems to be where the biggest death toll was


80 hostages are confirmed dead. Horrific


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

RIP to the victims and deepest sympathies to their family and friends... No words are remotely adequate.

My thoughts are with France.

If anyone has family in Paris, I pray that they hear from them soon.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

I'm sharing this on Facebook as it seems more practical than a candle photo. Still trying to find out more about a dear friend who is in Paris and hoping she's safe. Horrific and very frightening.

http://www.ryot.org/four-ways-you-can-help-the-people-of-paris-right-now/946524


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Isis have now claimed responsibility for the attacks.

Just heard they have evacuated Gatwick Airport after finding a suspicious package.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Isis have now claimed responsibility for the attacks.
> 
> Just heard they have evacuated Gatwick Airport after finding a suspicious package.


some are saying it was a man with " a gun in his bag" petrifying


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Nettles said:


> The hostage situation is over thankfully. Police/armed forces stormed the building last night and the gunmen were killed. I think many of the hostages were killed/injured sadly. This seems to be where the biggest death toll was


Thank you - I've been watching the news and it was apparent that the hostages were now free, but there was no detail. These terrorists are cowardly pieces of filth. Vile cowardly scum.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

lostbear said:


> Thank you - I've been watching the news and it was apparent that the hostages were now free, but there was no detail. These terrorists are cowardly pieces of filth. Vile cowardly scum.


I was watching it during the night and it was all very confusing (understandably)
Those poor people and their families.. it's just horrific. The extent these cowardly scumbags will go to makes me sick to my stomach.


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## willa (Jan 16, 2010)

Gatwick North Terminal evacuated, seen reports a gun and hand grenade found in handluggage


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

I have family in France, I hope they are safe! 

My thoughts to all.


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## Carzana (Oct 28, 2015)

It is horrific, a close friend is a soldier and the thought of him being deployed scares me so much,I cannot understand how you get to a place where this is an acceptable way to treat people.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Absolutely horrific.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

BILs family are all safe


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## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

Awful 

Thinking of all the families who have lost loved ones, & those still waiting to hear from theirs xx


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

I work at the airport, and live within a stones throw of it.. its very worrying indeed in case it is genuine and in case of sychronised attacks.

I know many that work in security (having helped out there over the summer period as overtime) and they work tirelessly to keep the airport and passengers safe; this must be incredibly stressful for them as well - the terminal was in lockdown last I heard. Scary stuff.

i hope those still trying to contact people in paris have some luck and hopefully relief!!


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## colliemerles (Nov 2, 2007)

my thoughts and prayers are with all affected by last nights horrific attacks, very sad times.


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## lymorelynn (Oct 4, 2008)

Just horrific - no where is safe. These were just ordinary French citizens enjoying a Friday night out. It could happen anywhere and doesn't bear thinking about.


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## Jayne31 (Apr 9, 2011)

I don't understand what happens to a human being that makes them believe that it is ok to kill other human beings, all in the name of what......religion, some belief system.

An utter act of cowardice!


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Jayne31 said:


> I don't understand what happens to a human being that makes them believe that it is ok to kill other human beings, all in the name of what......religion, some belief system.
> 
> An utter act of cowardice!


And they are *supposed* to be human beings, but they aren't. They are worse than scum.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2015)

So tragic, cruel and pointless. My heart goes to all victims of terrorism. No wonder people are fleeing to safe havens, as how could anyone live under the rule of ISIS. They seem to operate only cause chaos, death and fear.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Just seen on Sky News a few minutes ago that one of the Suicide Bombers was a Syrian who came into Paris, via Greece, as a Refugee on the 3rd October.

The Greek Government have confirmed.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Jayne31 said:


> I don't understand what happens to a human being that makes them believe that it is ok to kill other human beings, all in the name of what......religion, some belief system.


I believe it becomes fairly simple for one man to kill another man especially if one is convinced the other is inferior. Sub human even.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)




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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Sweety said:


> Just seen on Sky News a few minutes ago that one of the Suicide Bombers was a Syrian who came into Paris, via Greece, as a Refugee on the 3rd October.
> 
> The Greek Government have confirmed.


If it is proven that he came in as a refugee then I fear a backlash against the actual refugees who need help, ultimately resulting in countries shutting borders and stop accepting genuine refugees.


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## emmaviolet (Oct 24, 2011)

There are just no words really. An awful day that will be met with more bloodshed, but will most likely do more harm then good.


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## Vanessa131 (Nov 16, 2014)

stuaz said:


> If it is proven that he came in as a refugee then I fear a backlash against the actual refugees who need help, ultimately resulting in countries shutting borders and stop accepting genuine refugees.


I worry about that too, winter could make it even worse as well if support falls in the form of clothes donations etc.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

There's one person on my FB that lives in France and they're OK. I assumed and hoped so considering the number of people in France and Paris vs "only" 100s killed and injured. Sad day for the families of the people killed. 

I hope countries don't stop accepting refugees. The situation is a mess. I hope too that something is done about ISIS, Syria and Iraq soon. Having a place in the world that has been unstable for years (Syria) and having terrorist groups in that area isn't good for anyone, IMO.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

What I find interesting is the amount attention these events get and I do wonder if that's half the reason for doing these attacks in the first place. In other words, do news stations, papers, etc. encourage terrorists to do things like this by rewarding them with fame and notoriety? Does this help ISIS recruit more people? These ISIS people are being quite irrational in a way. What do these terrorists hope to accomplish in the end anyway? One reason I find the amount of attention this is getting to be interesting is that more people die each year in car accidents than from terrorists.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

stuaz said:


> If it is proven that he came in as a refugee then I fear a backlash against the actual refugees who need help, ultimately resulting in countries shutting borders and stop accepting genuine refugees.


There have been plenty of terrorists in the world which are local to their countries. The Oklahoma City bombing comes to mind.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

DogLover1981 said:


> What I find interesting is the amount attention these events get and I do wonder if that's half the reason for doing these attacks in the first place. In other words, do news stations, papers, etc. encourage terrorists to do things like this by rewarding them with fame and notoriety? Does this help ISIS recruit more people? These ISIS people are being quite irrational in a way. What do these terrorists hope to accomplish in the end anyway? One reason I find the amount attention this is getting to be interesting is that more people die each year in car accidents than from terrorists.


Therer is no doubt that they do it to increase their credibility as terrorist organisations - the problem is, with people's access to the internet nowadays being so easy, if governments didn't make statements, then individuals would and they sjkew on what has happened would be even worse, and any government which tried to keep things calm would be accused of trying to cover things up - whatever happens just plays into the hands of these scum.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

DogLover1981 said:


> There have been plenty of terrorists in the world which are local to their countries. The Oklahoma City bombing comes to mind.


Yeah? Not sure what point you are making there tbh.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

DogLover1981 said:


> There have been plenty of terrorists in the world which are local to their countries. The Oklahoma City bombing comes to mind.


You mean the Alfred P Murrah Federal Building.

Strange that such a huge explosion should leave no evidence of a hole in the floor.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

stuaz said:


> Yeah? Not sure what point you are making there tbh.


The point I'm making is that it isn't just refugees which are potential terrorists. Could be anyone really and that includes natives to any country/place. Refugees shouldn't be specifically targeted as being possible terrorists.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

DogLover1981 said:


> The point I'm making is that it isn't just refugees which are potential terrorists. Could be anyone really and that includes natives to any country/place. Refugees shouldn't be specifically targeted as being possible terrorists.


The news is reporting that some of the terrorists have Syrian passports and passed through Greece to get to France so my point was in reference that I hoped it didn't make people think all refugees are terrorists.

Of course terrorists can be anyone, home grown or abroad.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

They seem to be a mix, one a french man known to security services, others with Egyptian or Syrian passports.

The chap arrested at Gatwick was french, but no confirmation of his intention yet or why he had firearms on his person.

They really can come from anywhere and they really need to pin down what is driving homegrown terrorists to radicalisation 

Sadly I think ISIS know that the possible result of this is a backlash against the Muslim and refugee communities and push people to the outskirts of society, increase a feeling of oppression and away from a sense of inclusion and into the arms of extremist organisations. It's a recruitment drive


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## cheekyscrip (Feb 8, 2010)

That exodus made easy for anyone to.come in without any documents etc..

But we are equally easy to manipulate as they are. Equality in stupidity and intolerance.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Jayne31 said:


> I don't understand what happens to a human being that makes them believe that it is ok to kill other human beings, all in the name of what......religion, some belief system.
> 
> An utter act of cowardice!


I find it absolutely amazing that nearly every war and conflict that's ever happened can be linked back to religion ..... surely religion should make us better people, not monsters


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

DogLover1981 said:


> What I find interesting is the amount attention these events get and I do wonder if that's half the reason for doing these attacks in the first place. In other words, do news stations, papers, etc. encourage terrorists to do things like this by rewarding them with fame and notoriety? Does this help ISIS recruit more people? These ISIS people are being quite irrational in a way. What do these terrorists hope to accomplish in the end anyway? One reason I find the amount of attention this is getting to be interesting is that more people die each year in car accidents than from terrorists.


Like the bombing in Beirut on Thursday. Same tragedy, less media coverage.


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## jon.bda (Oct 10, 2015)

Amelia66 said:


> Like the bombing in Beirut on Thursday. Same tragedy, less media coverage.


Not on our doorstep so it doesn't upset Strictly! 

Scary stuff though, my eldest lad and his better half were in Paris not so long back and the first news I heard on the radio at work the next morning after they flew out was of gunmen running about the place, it was something like this I feared. Really gutting for them though, as some of the attacks were in the area they had stayed...she even recognised a café owner on the news who had been really nice to the Brits who spoke no French...


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

This says it perfectly for me. Let's get some perspective.


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## westie~ma (Mar 16, 2009)

So, next weekend (Saturday) me, my ds, sis in law and bro in law are due to travel to Paris by train then change down to Clermont for a rugby match.

Phoned them this morning, they aren't keen to go. Me, I think wait and see. The closing of borders thing concerns me more than anything.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Why does religion get the blame all the time? Just because these nutters say they are killing in the name of their religion doesn't make it true. If they said they were killing in the name of Santa Claus we wouldn't blame Santa Claus. They are nothing but cruel, sick and twisted [email protected]@rds and no religion wants associated with them.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

Nettles said:


> Why does religion get the blame all the time? Just because these nutters say they are killing in the name of their religion doesn't make it true. If they said they were killing in the name of Santa Claus we wouldn't blame Santa Claus. They are nothing but cruel, sick and twisted [email protected]@rds and no religion wants associated with them.


Absolutely. They're murderers and fanatics and because they believe they need to do this in the name of religion doesn't mean their religion endorses their actions.

I think it's more about craving power. There have always been murderers and they will nearly always try to justify their actions.

Remember the American girl who took Daddy's rifle to College one morning and took out half the Faculty? She didn't like Mondays..


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

And whilst I watch FB turn red, white and blue, I am reminded of this too.
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/11/lets-pray-for-beirut-the-same-way-were-praying-for-paris/


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

There are elections in France in December. The National Front already has a strong following over there and a good foothold in politics. This will no doubt help their cause.


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## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

DogLover1981 said:


> What I find interesting is the amount attention these events get and I do wonder if that's half the reason for doing these attacks in the first place. In other words, do news stations, papers, etc. encourage terrorists to do things like this by rewarding them with fame and notoriety? Does this help ISIS recruit more people? These ISIS people are being quite irrational in a way. What do these terrorists hope to accomplish in the end anyway? One reason I find the amount of attention this is getting to be interesting is that more people die each year in car accidents than from terrorists.


IS aims are fairly simple really - create a worldwide caliphate where all Muslims must obey their strict interpretation of the Koran and kill all those who don't believe. They aren't interested in negotiating, or peace treaties and they;re clealry trying to drive a wedge between moderate and non-muslims so more will join their cause. There are some very clever, well funded people hiding in the shadows directing operations, and I bet they simply couldn't believe their luck when Merkel declared Europe an open house. I hope she is proud of her legacy.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

MrsZee said:


> So tragic, cruel and pointless. My heart goes to all victims of terrorism. No wonder people are fleeing to safe havens, as how could anyone live under the rule of ISIS. They seem to operate only cause chaos, death and fear.


But sadly those who are fleeing are not being thoroughly vetted before entry into our countries which is a very scary thought indeed.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Sweety said:


> Absolutely. They're murderers and fanatics and because they believe they need to do this in the name of religion doesn't mean their religion endorses their actions.
> 
> I think it's more about craving power. There have always been murderers and they will nearly always try to justify their actions.
> 
> Remember the American girl who took Daddy's rifle to College one morning and took out half the Faculty? She didn't like Mondays..


Exactly. They're murderers wanting to rule the world and using the word religion to justify themselves.


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

2 of the terrorists are confirmed to be Syrian 'refugees' who registered as such in Greece.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

Paris terror attacks: Police identify first gunman as hunt for terrorists goes on - Telegraph

This is in the Telegraph today.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Terrible . So sorry for all the victims & their families both in Paris & in the Lebanon. I fear there will be big backlash towards refugees & ordinary muslims after this. Very worrying, already there is a massive epetition to close our doors on them. Really shocked to see how many have signed it.

A couple of very poignant tweets from two muslims

"do westerners realize that ISIS bombs cities in the Middle East, too?? that they kill innocent Muslims, TOO?? ISIS does not represent us"
11,816 retweets7,636 likes

"We hate them more than Westerners do. They kill our people AND make us look responsible which also gets us killed"


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

grumpy goby said:


> Sadly I think ISIS know that the possible result of this is a backlash against the Muslim and refugee communities and push people to the outskirts of society, increase a feeling of oppression and away from a sense of inclusion and into the arms of extremist organisations. It's a recruitment drive


They don't just know it - they're counting on it!


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> Terrible . So sorry for all the victims & their families both in Paris & in the Lebanon. I fear there will be big backlash towards refugees & ordinary muslims after this. Very worrying, already there is a massive epetition to close our doors on them. Really shocked to see how many have signed it.
> 
> *A couple of very poignant tweets from two muslims
> 
> ...


I know that you are right, noush - but unfortunately the Muslim countries which could do something about this horror don't want to be seen as raising a hand against fellow Muslims - and of course- they are wealthy countries (e.g. Saudi Arabia) which don't want to draw any IS attention to themselves. This horror needs EVERYBODY to combat it.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I find the selective empathy displayed over the events in Paris an interesting reflection on human nature. Nobody turned their status to (insert relevant colour/flag) post the numerous other similar events which have occurred only this year all over the world.

I did not jump on that particular bandwagon and my status has not changed on Facebook.


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## Charity (Apr 17, 2013)

My heartfelt sympathy goes out to all the families of those who died, are injured or missing in Paris. Most are young people and they are not only French but a number of different nationalities. This is never done in the name of 'religion' which advocates peace and love for your fellow man, these are workers of the Devil. I hope there will not be reprisals on ordinary, decent Muslims who hate terrorists as much as the rest of us. Sadly, its too late to stop this kind of thing happening now they have spread themselves throughout the world like a deadly disease.


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Recent report from Jon Snow (paris Police sources) suggests they believe the Syrian passport found was actually a fraudulant passport from Turkey - does this indicate that ISIS are trying to force further bad feeling and persecution against those refugees who are fleeing them? Driving them back into the arms of extremists? (also answers the question of "why would you go on a martyrdom carrying a passport..")

Worrying & Heartbreaking times.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Just heard my family are all OK! *relief*

Apparently everyone has been told to stay indoors, doors and windows locked, all shops are shut, not many cars about, it's like a ghost town my great aunt said. 
She, understandably, is petrified and wants to get out of Paris, we have family in the South of France too she can stay with, but it would mean going by train, and she fears a suicide bomber will be on the train ............. scared to do anything


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

smokeybear said:


> I find the selective empathy displayed over the events in Paris an interesting reflection on human nature. Nobody turned their status to (insert relevant colour/flag) post the numerous other similar events which have occurred only this year all over the world.
> 
> I did not jump on that particular bandwagon and my status has not changed on Facebook.


I did change mine but with numerous links to practical things that people can do and the link I gave above.

Torn because I have a huge interest in the social affects of design and whilst it's just changing a photo, solidarity in any form can be a comfort though I suspect we'd be changing the colours of FB every night if everyone was more aware of the volume of attacks globally. I understand what you mean


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I posted this on fb and think it fits quite well with this thread too.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Hubby leaves in a couple of days to tour many major cities throughout Europe working in music venues.
He hasn't lost any friends or close colleagues but it is a small world in his industry and he has met/knows of people who have lost their lives or been directly impacted by this tragedy.
These are monsters working hard to create terror and hatred between cultures.
People all over the world trying to lead peaceful lives to have this snatched from them in moments of pure evil.
My heartbreaks.


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## witchyone (Dec 16, 2011)

just this 1177064688974943


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

cinnamontoast said:


> 2 of the terrorists are confirmed to be Syrian 'refugees' who registered as such in Greece.


coming soon to a town near you.....


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

1. Close all European borders
2. No entry without full checks - intel-DNA-fingerprints-passports-background checks-etc
3. Turn back all refugee boats or repatriate migrants whence they departed from

TBH tho, its too late, the damage has been done


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> 1. Close all European borders
> 2. No entry without full checks - intel-DNA-fingerprints-passports-background checks-etc
> 3. Turn back all refugee boats or repatriate migrants whence they departed from
> 
> TBH tho, its too late, the damage has been done


4. Close our eyes, after all if we can't see it, then it's not really happening is it?


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

stuaz said:


> 4. Close our eyes, after all if we can't see it, then it's not really happening is it?


im surprised ISIL didnt hit the Cenotaph last sunday


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> 1. Close all European borders
> 2. No entry without full checks - intel-DNA-fingerprints-passports-background checks-etc
> 3. Turn back all refugee boats or repatriate migrants whence they departed from
> 
> TBH tho, its too late, the damage has been done


Yes because shitty people only reside outside of Europe now don't they


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Oh seems like I came back at just the right time with this very appropriate link (apologies for the rude word)
http://newsthump.com/2015/11/14/the...ay-to-ensure-our-safety-claims-****ing-moron/


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

MollySmith said:


> Oh seems like I came back at just the right time with this very appropriate link (apologies for the rude word)
> http://newsthump.com/2015/11/14/the...ay-to-ensure-our-safety-claims-*******-moron/


Apparently Jim broke the page


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

StormyThai said:


> Apparently Jim broke the page


No doubt that'll be down to the activities of Jihad Jim.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

StormyThai said:


> Apparently Jim broke the page


Idiot takeover! Shame it was a good link about assumptive idiots who think an attack in Paris or somewhere can be attributed to everyone who might be vaguely foreign. To be honest, I think reading selected parts of this thread pretty much sums up the content


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

witchyone said:


> just this 1177064688974943


???


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

I read this on social media and it rang true.

The only weapon IS fear is tolerance .
POSTED BY IAIN2MACWHIRTER ⋅ NOVEMBER 15, 2015

“France is at war” said Francois Hollande on the morning after the worst attack on French soil since the second world war. But at war with what? Islamic State isn’t a country. They don’t invade with armies, but with fear.

You can’t go to war with an organisation that doesn’t stand and fight and nor can you punish people who’ve already sacrificed their lives. Hollande said the perpetrators of the Paris attacks will be pursued “without mercy”. But you can’t sentence a suicide bomber to death.

IS are terrorists whose primary objective is not to occupy but to polarise; to encourage repressive measures from the state against muslims, and to force non-muslim communities to regard followers of Islam as ‘enemies within’.

They know that the influx into Europe of large numbers of migrants from North Africa and the Middle East is reawakening latent xenophobia in French society. IS are doing a recruiting job for the far right Front Nationale of Marine Le Pen who is expected to win next month’s regional elections in Northern France. They want Europe to rebuild its borders and end free movement.

The Paris attacks seem to have been consciously targeted at concerts and cafes attended by urban liberals who celebrate multiculturalism and for whom religious or racial intolerance is abhorrent. It was retaliation agains the Paris that came out in force to express solidarity with the victims of Charlie Hebdo in January.

“They curse our prophet” said the IS statement. The rhetoric may be mediaeval but the tactics are twenty first century. These are digital zealots, connoisseurs of popular culture, who may even posses a grim sense irony. Their main attack in Paris was at a rock concert fronted by the American garage band Eagles of Death Metal.

But it was real death metal flying into their bodies of dozens of young Parisians from Kalashnikovs wielded by young muslim fanatics. The message was clear: the young people in the west play at death; IS do the real thing.

IS says that it is targeting Paris in part because of the bombing in Syria, but principally because it is “the capital of adultery and vice” . The cover of the Eagles of Death Metal’s latest album “Zipper Down” depicts a woman in a leather bomber jacked revealing her breasts. The imagery will not be lost on the legions of young impressionable muslims on the internet.

This is culture wars with Kalashnikovs. The only way to defeat IS, as with all terror, is to withstand it. The people of Paris understand this instinctively. On BBC radio yesterday a young parisian announced that “everybody is going to go out and eat cheese and drink wine like we always do on Saturdays”. That’s the spirit.

Hurling militant rhetoric and more drones at IS only makes it stronger. The best way to combat this kind of threat, is to keep calm and carry on. That’s how Britain withstood the IRA’s mainland bombing campaign which killed as many people and nearly blew up the Prime Minister in 1984.

The one thing the terrorists want is for governments to launch another war on terror, just as America did after 9/11. So let’s hear no more of it. The weapon Islamic extremists fear most is tolerance.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

StormyThai said:


> Yes because shitty people only reside outside of Europe now don't they


No, weve let em in.....


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/25/germany-uk-gchq-internet-surveillance


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> No, weve let em in.....


*As the sun set on 12 February 1894, the Café Terminus at the Gare Saint-Lazare was full of young Parisians listening to an orchestra when the music stopped abruptly. A fireball consumed everything in sight: the world went black. When the survivors came round, there was a jigsaw of body parts around them, and people on fire, running, screaming. It was the work of a smartly dressed 20-year-old French accountant called Emile Henry. He had placed a bomb in a metal workman's lunchbox and hurled it at the orchestra. This wasn't his first attack: a few months before, he had blown up a police station, killing five people, and returned calmly to his desk, where he finished the ledgers he had been working on.

Emile Henry was not an anarchist from Central Casting. He was an intellectual born into the French bourgeoisie, living in part off handouts from his rich aunt.*

Yes you are right...we let them in 
Do you even listen to yourself sometimes?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> No, weve let em in.....


Two words for you to cogitate.

*Anders Breivik.*


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

We let them in, we can kick them out too......

But first we can stop any more coming

Time for some real action...


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Watch the French vigilantes wreak revenge......


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> We let them in, we can kick them out too......
> 
> But first we can stop any more coming
> 
> Time for some real action...


Why don't you stop trying to stir up/disseminate ill feeling towards the people you really know nothing about other than what the warped corporate media deliberately feed you as their idea of a healthy mental diet.

I have a lot of muslim friends back home, many of whom I have worked alongside of and I take particular offence at those who would instantly condemn them as vicious and an imminent threat to everyone else's life.

(Edited at the request of MrsZee)


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2015)

I thought this was well worth the read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/w...cks-paris.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0


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## jon.bda (Oct 10, 2015)

Been horrible to watch  My eldest lad and his girlfriend were over there a few months back and have recognised the area they stayed in on the news, a café and the owner who helped them out by drawing them a map to find their hotel the first day they were there, the bridge they walked under everyday. I was crapping myself when they were out there themselves, first thing I heard on the news was about gunmen running around Paris if you remember that? This though is just horrific...


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## jon.bda (Oct 10, 2015)

Colliebarmy said:


> We let them in, we can kick them out too......
> 
> But first we can stop any more coming
> 
> Time for some real action...


Britain First colouring book?


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Very relieved to find out the driver of one of the tour buses for Eagles of Death Metal is safe, hubby spent a few months with him earlier in the year. Great chap who looked after the crew well.
Not sure if he was due to travel with Hubby again with Judas Priest, hubby was hoping so.

So many atrocities all over the world - all deserve our attention, response and support but we are often restricted by what is reported - remember Rawanda and Bosnia very little information was reported to the public.


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## rona (Aug 18, 2011)

Those that were in those buildings and witnessed all this will forever have nightmares I would imagine. I don't know how you cope with seeing something like that 
They will need a lot of help


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

Nettles said:


> Why does religion get the blame all the time? Just because these nutters say they are killing in the name of their religion doesn't make it true. If they said they were killing in the name of Santa Claus we wouldn't blame Santa Claus. They are nothing but cruel, sick and twisted [email protected]@rds and no religion wants associated with them.


I did read at one point that people tend to view people which are different from themselves less positively and care less about harm coming to those people. They may also be less bothered by directly hurting those people themselves. I tend to agree and people do this without even realizing it at times. Admittedly, I know I view some people less positively myself. A few ways in which people are different is religion and politics. In my a little over a year on FB, I've seen a couple of people post that people of this or that religion/politics will be removed from their friend list for example.

Sometimes I speculate that this has to do with human evolution and it's a source of much conflict in the world. Back in the cave man days, it was probably a wise survival strategy to be suspicious of the neighboring tribe/clan that's using the local resources with which you could be using and possibly has a very different set of beliefs. Too, religion can be used to bring a group together and unite them against that "evil" tribe next door. That too could be a good survival strategy. The Native Americans were known to be constantly fighting against one another and probably did so long before the Europeans arrived. There are conspiracy theories about Europe and the USA intentionally creating the instability in Syria and the region around Syria. I imagine some of these Islamic terrorists do believe this and believe that the people of these countries are evil in some way.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

My previous post may explain why the other terrorist attacks outside of France have not got as much attention.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

Also, on a side note, despite all the media coverage of these terrorists attacks and other violence, we're living in the most peaceful time in human history, IMO.  News stations love to report the negative side of everything. lol


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

jon.bda said:


> Britain First colouring book?


Most likely. There are a series of Facebook pages run by the same fellow who who has realised he can make money from page hits to supplement his income from fake H4H collections.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

"I don’t know how to say it more directly than this: Yes, the members of ISIS come from Muslim backgrounds. No, their actions cannot be justified on the basis of the 1400 years of Islamic tradition. Every serious scholar of Islam has confirmed this clearly, and unambiguously. ISIS is about as Muslim as the KKK is Christian. If you don’t look to the KKK to tell you about God’s message of love as expressed through Jesus, don’t look to ISIS to tell you about God’s mercy as expressed through Muhammad."

Wisdom from Omid Safi, Director of Duke University's Islamic Studies Center. (CVC)

I'm not even engaging with CollieBarmy's racist Britain First point of view, he is firmly on ignore and staying there. I'm listening to friends from all religions and all countries. Mostly I'm hoping to hear from a friend in Paris who is Muslim and his French girlfriend both of whom have been missing since Friday evening.


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Well we can all find internet quotes to support either point of view. Eg...

"There is disagreement about the "true" nature of every religion. Put 100 Christians of different denominations in a room and they'll argue over virtually every aspect of their faith. What they won't do, however, is debate whether they're supposed to be out killing cartoonists, shooting up schools, murdering soldiers at the Canadian parliament, or taking hostages at a cafe in Sydney. Only one religion has to even entertain that discussion. And that, to me, clearly indicates some very serious _and inherent_ flaws."


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Colliebarmy said:


> 1. Close all European borders
> 2. No entry without full checks - intel-DNA-fingerprints-passports-background checks-etc
> 3. Turn back all refugee boats or repatriate migrants whence they departed from
> 
> TBH tho, its too late, the damage has been done


So the one who was home grown, as many of these people have been (see Charlie Hebdo attacks), what do you propose is done with those ones? How do you propose closing European borders when the Shengen space exists and there's nothing stopping anyone stepping from one country to the next in Europe (bar maybe the Pyrenees)?


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)




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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

Especially for @Colliebarmy
http://newsthump.com/2015/11/15/absolutely-everyone-suddenly-an-expert-on-how-to-defeat-isis/


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

There are over a billion Muslims in the world. If they were all terrorists, we'd be screwed.


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## Amelia66 (Feb 15, 2011)

For those that think that Muslims are out to get us






I think this sums up how perfectly people dont listen and make themselves look stupid for throw away comments when they dont know all the facts.

Do people not realise those refugees are also fleeing these people? why does it seem to matter that they also happen to be Muslims?


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Well, I'm no doubt in the minority with my family because the rest all seem to be taking CB's view that the refugees are to blame and the borders should be closed...

Of course, if the shoe were on the other foot and England was war-torn and they were refugees, seeking safety in Scotland/Wales/France then the rules don't apply to them.  

Also have to love the argument that all these refugees are only after our benefits and don't want to work, but they still manage to take all our jobs at the same time...

Must be true because they seen it on a documentary,


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Amelia66 said:


> Do people not realise those refugees are also fleeing these people? why does it seem to matter that they also happen to be Muslims?


And if the people don't flee, they're left with two choices - Be killed by a terrorist... or become a terrorist. It's such a shame that the racists standing on their soapbox screaming "shut the gates, send them all home" can't see the damage THEY are causing!


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> Well, I'm no doubt in the minority with my family because the rest all seem to be taking CB's view that the refugees are to blame and the borders should be closed...
> 
> Of course, if the shoe were on the other foot and England was war-torn and they were refugees, seeking safety in Scotland/Wales/France then the rules don't apply to them.
> 
> ...


Mmmm, I avoided a family do today just in case as I find that sort of attitude abhorrent. Utterly disgusting. Sorry you had to listen to that but take faith from the fact that it seems to a minority view. Social media is largely full of people who are positive, hopefully and inclusive.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

MollySmith said:


> Mmmm, I avoided a family do today just in case as I find that sort of attitude abhorrent. Utterly disgusting. Sorry you had to listen to that but take faith from the fact that it seems to a minority view. Social media is largely full of people who are positive, hopefully and inclusive.


I walked right into it, unfortunately. I wasn't naive enough to think the Paris attacks wouldn't be mentioned at all, but when my aunt declared it time to close the borders I couldn't just sit and listen... Maybe it was for the best that mam put a stop to it by declaring a game of cards.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Nettles said:


> Why does religion get the blame all the time? Just because these nutters say they are killing in the name of their religion doesn't make it true. If they said they were killing in the name of Santa Claus we wouldn't blame Santa Claus. They are nothing but cruel, sick and twisted [email protected]@rds and no religion wants associated with them.


This isn't all directed at you Nettles.

If you're going to say it's not the fault of a certain religion and these people were just a bunch of nutters then you might aswell say that the Islamic Prophet Muhammad has nothing to do with Islam. It's simply not true.

In the Quran Muhammad was the one that Allah commands ALL Muslims to emulate. If you read about Muhammad I think most people come to the conclusion ''WHY would I want to emulate him?''. Allah and Muhammad are supposed to define what a Muslim is, these two define Islam.. It has mostly if not everything to do with religion and peoples interpretations of it and what they think is ''true'' and it is the exact reason why these sick extremists think they are on some Godly mission and scarily enough our government are letting some of these people in unknowingly and some of these extremists are even home grown.

We always seem to either not say anything at the thought of offending someone or look for some deeper meaning as to why these people are doing these sorts of things. Just because you brush it aside and say ''because they believe it doesn't make it true'' doesn't make it better does it? or doesn't not make it about religion when they believe what they're doing to be the truth. It also doesn't make it better for the 129 innocent people who were slaughtered in Paris or the 352 who are injured. Or the hundreds of thousands of women, children and men that IS have tortured, blown up, beheaded, stoned to death, raped, chopped limbs off of.

It's sad to me that people seem to shut everyone down with the religion/racism card who have an opinion or who are genuinely scared in their own Country.

I don't think people think all Muslims are terrorists at all but there is clearly a huge issue with Islamic terrorism.

I don't care if I get called an Islamaphobe or a racist for my views, that's just my opinion on it and that is why I personally blame religion.

RIP to everyone who tragically lost their lives in Paris.


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## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

There was a huge issue with IRA terrorism many years ago, I am old enough to remember when anyone with an Irish accent was viewed with particular suspicion and life was made extremely difficult for some on the UK mainland. 

I am also old enough to remember the multiple hijacks by Palestinians and the Beider Meinhof killings etc etc etc

There will always be individuals and groups who will use the excuse of religion, politics and various other yardsticks to "excuse" their activities, the fact is that terrorism by individuals and groups has existed since time immemorial and some of these we celebrate, like Guy Fawkes night, and some we do not.

They all result in the deaths of fellow human beings and it is human nature to blame something or someone for our own failings and actions.

We should spend less time pointing fingers at others and perhaps a little more time considering that events such as these occur almost daily all over the globe, but which the media choose not to publicise.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> This isn't all directed at you Nettles.
> 
> If you're going to say it's not the fault of a certain religion and these people were just a bunch of nutters then you might aswell say that the Islamic Prophet Muhammad has nothing to do with Islam. It's simply not true.
> 
> ...


To those lost in Paris? Not those who also lost their lives in Beirut, only a day before the Paris attacks?

I admit, at the time of posting my FB status with RIP to the victims of Friday night's atrocities, I was unaware of the Beirut attacks, but they deserve the same respect and their families deserve the same amount of condolences or sympathy... I confess I don't know the stats for the Beirut victims but then I'm only marginally aware of the Paris stats.

If you fail to sympathise with the victims of Beirut and their families while sympathising with those of Paris, then you are racist.

Or, as someone on FB and apparently on here have said "selectively humane".


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Royoyo said:


> If you're going to say it's not the fault of a certain religion and these people were just a bunch of nutters then you might aswell say that the Islamic Prophet Muhammad has nothing to do with Islam. It's simply not true.


So the KKK and Westbro church represent Christianity then yeah?

Shitty people are shitty people, who will use any excuse to cause mayhem and destruction..be that a "holy" book or be that the famous five by Enid Blyton...Religion doesn't cause wars or encourage people to do harm, people do that all on their own. But as a species we have to justify our actions...what better way to justify them that by the misinterpretation of a "higher power" eh?

I suggest you actually read the Quran, rather than listening to snippets released in the press 

*It's sad to me that people seem to shut everyone down with the religion/racism card who have an opinion or who are genuinely scared in their own Country.*

It saddens me that many seem to forget what is in our own bible, and what atrocities Christians have done in the name of their "book" over the years...


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

StormyThai said:


> *So the KKK and Westbro church represent Christianity then yeah?*
> 
> Shitty people are shitty people, who will use any excuse to cause mayhem and destruction..be that a "holy" book or be that the famous five by Enid Blyton...Religion doesn't cause wars or encourage people to do harm, people do that all on their own. But as a species we have to justify our actions...what better way to justify them that by the misinterpretation of a "higher power" eh?
> 
> I suggest you actually read the Quran, rather than listening to snippets released in the press


Wasn't the IRA Catholic? So they obviously represented Catholics. 

Must be nice to be so gullibly indoctrinated. To be able to believe the media reports the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, with no ulterior motive.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...all-have-our-own-ways-of-dealing-with-tragedy

I keep posting links sorry, but this sums up my feelings this morning, especially the last three parts and the one about those who claim not to be racist but are. Fortunately I can't see their pointless post in which they try to claim they are right having seen this opinion on a documentary or in the Daily Wail but I'm guessing the content.


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Some humans will do the most awful things through to the end of humankind, but I feel that if we no longer had religion, that would reduce these awful things. Won't stop them, but might just reduce how often they happen. 

You don't need religion to be good, You don't need religion to be bad, You just have to be you.


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## LinznMilly (Jun 24, 2011)

MollySmith said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...all-have-our-own-ways-of-dealing-with-tragedy
> 
> I keep posting links sorry, but this sums up my feelings this morning, especially the last three parts and the one about those who claim not to be racist but are. Fortunately I can't see their pointless post in which they try to claim they are right having seen this opinion on a documentary or in the Daily Wail but I'm guessing the content.


I will be making myself even less popular with my family and sharing that link as soon as my phone decides to open FB.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

lostbear said:


> I know that you are right, noush - but unfortunately the Muslim countries which could do something about this horror don't want to be seen as raising a hand against fellow Muslims - and of course- they are wealthy countries (e.g. Saudi Arabia) which don't want to draw any IS attention to themselves. This horror needs EVERYBODY to combat it.


Saudi is controlled by a vile regime just as extreme & brutal as ISIS are. Saudi arm & fund ISIS yet they are OUR allies. You couldn't make it up. Have a look at this LB - _ If we want to take on terrorism, we need to confront Saudi Arabia and other dictatorships_ http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...dictatorships-fundamentalism?CMP=share_btn_tw

Nearly all those fighting & being killed by ISIS are muslim. Most of the refugees fleeing ISIS are muslim. Yet the irony is muslims are being demonised for ISIS. I can only imagine how the millions of ordinary muslims must be feeling right now.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)




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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

LinznMilly said:


> Wasn't the IRA Catholic? So they obviously represented Catholics.
> 
> Must be nice to be so gullibly indoctrinated. To be able to believe the media reports the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, with no ulterior motive.


Our family is mostly, historically Catholic. Naturally I spent most of my childhood wandering around the streets of Newcastle or Cambridge with a petrol bomb in one hand and a copy of the Catholic Times in the other… At least that's what some of the arguments on here would equate to. Clearly I was like any other regular child. I don't think for one second that the IRA ever represented me or the Irish parts of my family!

That's mostly why I have no patience with this baseless taring everyone with the same brush. In the way that these idiots come up with their own opinions, so does everyone else. Freedom of thought and education I believe it's called. Those jumping to opinions merely show a complete lack of both. I'd say they were like sheep but that's insulting to animals.


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)




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## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

Jesthar said:


>


How do we get Isis to stop fighting and start loving?


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

negative creep said:


> How do we get Isis to stop fighting and start loving?


It's not about what you can make others do. It's about what you allow others to make you do.
We can't get ISIS to stop fighting, but we can stop allowing them to cloud our views and turn us in to fear-driven hate mongers ourselves.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Good friends of our family were killed in the La Mon bombing, my uncle lost part of his leg after getting caught up in an IRA bomb, my mum was blown across the room and broke her ribs when the blast from an IRA car bomb came down the chimney of our house.

The scum responsible are not foreign invaders. The gates can't be closed to keep them out and they can't be sent home. They most certainly do not represent me nor my family. Neither side of the divide in NI are fighting for my rights, nor my Christian beliefs. They are nothing more than murderers fuelled by hatred.

Religion has supposedly divided this country for decades yet many have never even set foot inside a church in their lives. They have simply been brought up to hate the "other side" 

Religion is the excuse, not the cause.


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## Happy Paws2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Animallover26 said:


> Some humans will do the most awful things through to the end of humankind, but I feel that if we no longer had religion, that would reduce these awful things. Won't stop them, but might just reduce how often they happen.
> 
> You don't need religion to be good, You don't need religion to be bad, You just have to be you.


I agree most of the evil in the world is caused in the name of religion, the idea some wonderful person sat on a cloud is out dated, if there was such a person why does he/she let these things like this to happen, so much for a kind, loving and forgiving creature. Religion belongs with all the other fairy tails.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

negative creep said:


> How do we get Isis to stop fighting and start loving?


We don't. We can't control what they do, or if they choose to hate.

But we _can_ control our own reactions, resolve not to fall into the same trap ourselves. ISIS expect hate to breed hate, which in turn drives more people towards their cause. The only way to win that game is not to play.


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

ouesi said:


> It's not about what you can make others do. It's about what you allow others to make you do.
> We can't get ISIS to stop fighting, but we can stop allowing them to cloud our views and turn us in to fear-driven hate mongers ourselves.





Jesthar said:


> We don't. We can't control what they do, or if they choose to hate.
> 
> But we _can_ control our own reactions, resolve not to fall into the same trap ourselves. ISIS expect hate to breed hate, which in turn drives more people towards their cause. The only way to win that game is not to play.


I obviously understand what you are saying and I am not one of those that blames all Muslims for what ISIS do and I'm not racist. But what do we do because I have no idea, are we supposed to let them carry on killing people all over the world including letting them attempt to do it here? It's all pretty scary tbh. Nobody anywhere in the world should be locked in a building and shot to death or be blown up by bombs or have to pretend to be dead laying amongst blood and bodies so that they aren't the next target.  I just dont know how we are going to resolve any of this.


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## Fleur (Jul 19, 2008)

Growing up in a Naval town next to a Naval city with large Naval Base during the IRA bombings I was very aware of what was going on in Ireland and London.
But not once did I feel a need to fear or hate my Catholic friends, the local Priest our Catholic RE teacher etc.
I simply do not understand how people can blame millions of people for the acts of a few. This is exactly what the terrorists want.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Everyone needs to see this . Then share it far & wide!


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> I agree most of the evil in the world is caused in the name of religion, the idea some wonderful person sat on a cloud is out dated, if there was such a person why does he/she let these things like this to happen, so much for a kind, loving and forgiving creature. Religion belongs with all the other fairy tails.


I agree, also if these extremists really believe blowing themselves and others up is the way to get into heaven (or what ever place they believe in), then I don't want to go to heaven.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

CavalierOwner said:


> I obviously understand what you are saying and I am not one of those that blames all Muslims for what ISIS do and I'm not racist. But what do we do because I have no idea, are we supposed to let them carry on killing people all over the world including letting them attempt to do it here? It's all pretty scary tbh. Nobody anywhere in the world should be locked in a building and shot to death or be blown up by bombs or have to pretend to be dead laying amongst blood and bodies so that they aren't the next target.  I just dont know how we are going to resolve any of this.


This is just my personal opinion, but I think the only way we're going to get people to stop killing each other in the name of religion is to expose religion in general and promote true compassionate thinking.

Religion, especially monotheistic ones are about separating one group of "chosen" people from another. Now of course not all religious people turn in to suicide bombers, but the fact remains that the teachings of the major monotheistic religions of the world do lend themselves frighteningly easily to violence. It's really time to evolve past that.

You can tell me all day long that Islam and Christianity are religions of peace but the historical fact is, Christians and Muslims have been killing and enslaving each other over their beliefs since the religions began thousands of years ago. It does make you wonder what would happen if we would just leave the religions aside and just be humans dealing with fellow humans. Some people would still hate each others, some people would still find niches of like-minded people, but without the righteousness of religion to encourage people to take things way too far.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

negative creep said:


> How do we get Isis to stop fighting and start loving?


The West created ISIS with its illegal war mongering. To quote Chomsky - "_Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it".



_


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Fantastic way of putting it @ouesi.


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## lostbear (May 29, 2013)

Happy Paws said:


> *I agree most of the evil in the world is caused in the name of religion, the idea some wonderful person sat on a cloud is out dated, if there was such a person why does he/she let these things like this to happen, so much for a kind, loving and forgiving creature. Religion belongs with all the other fairy tails*.


What you have just described is, indeed, a fairy tale. God is nothing like this popular image, and I know very few people _of real faith_ who think that s/he is.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

lostbear said:


> What you have just described is, indeed, a fairy tale. God is nothing like this popular image, and I know very few people _of real faith_ who think that s/he is.


Agreed. Religion and faith are two very different things. I am a passionate Christian, but have never found _any_ form of religion worthwhile.


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## Blaise in Surrey (Jun 10, 2014)

ouesi said:


> This is just my personal opinion, but I think the only way we're going to get people to stop killing each other in the name of religion is to expose religion in general and promote true compassionate thinking.
> 
> Religion, especially monotheistic ones are about separating one group of "chosen" people from another. Now of course not all religious people turn in to suicide bombers, but the fact remains that the teachings of the major monotheistic religions of the world do lend themselves frighteningly easily to violence. It's really time to evolve past that.
> 
> You can tell me all day long that Islam and Christianity are religions of peace but the historical fact is, Christians and Muslims have been killing and enslaving each other over their beliefs since the religions began thousands of years ago. It does make you wonder what would happen if we would just leave the religions aside and just be humans dealing with fellow humans. Some people would still hate each others, some people would still find niches of like-minded people, but without the righteousness of religion to encourage people to take things way too far.


With respect, @ouesi (and I have a lot of that where you're concerned) the picture of faith which you outline is, in the case of most present-day people of faith, long gone. I read widely about faith groups other than my own and the vast majority of people speak of love and respect for the views of others and of there being many paths to God.


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

If this is where the world is going I would like to get off.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/991322/...an-into-oncoming-underground-train-in-london/


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Rather than getting rid of religion, how about learning to tolerate different beliefs and not tarring everyone from one faith with the same brush. Many different religions have done a lot of good in the world, brought peace and comfort to millions of people.
People will continue to fight and kill for many reasons. The colour of a persons skin, their sexual orientation, their culture, the list is endless. People are not going to give up their faith no matter what, so until we stop believing the murderers and the excuses they hide behind and learn to tolerate all races, religions and lifestyle choices then we'll be in the same position we're in another thousand years from now.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> Well, I'm no doubt in the minority with my family because the rest all seem to be taking CB's view that the refugees are to blame and the borders should be closed...
> 
> Of course, if the shoe were on the other foot and England was war-torn and they were refugees, seeking safety in Scotland/Wales/France then the rules don't apply to them.
> 
> ...


Same here. My dad has been spewing some really....extreme views! But he's a hateful person in general so I'm not surprised.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

BlaiseinHampshire said:


> With respect, @ouesi (and I have a lot of that where you're concerned) the picture of faith which you outline is, in the case of most present-day people of faith, long gone. I read widely about faith groups other than my own and the vast majority of people speak of love and respect for the views of others and of there being many paths to God.


I did not speak of faith in my post, I spoke of religion. 
There is a difference 
There is room in a compassionate world for people to keep their god(s) whatever they perceive god to be, but we have got to lose the dogma.


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## Valanita (Apr 13, 2010)

Wondering how ISIS was founded, I came across this article.....

https://www.quora.com/How-did-ISIS-form-When-and-where-did-ISIS-begin

How one man can be responsible of so much terror & get away with it, I'll never know.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Religion; The earliest form of social control.

God; A primitive surveillance system aka Big Brother.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

*"Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind." (Qur'an, 5:32)*

Sounds like a book that condones violence and unjust killing to me -insert sarcasm here-
Religion hasn't killed anyone...people do that all on their own and I say that all that seem to think religion is the cause should actually read the Quran or the bible for themselves rather than listening to quotes in the media


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## Jamesgoeswalkies (May 8, 2014)

StormyThai said:


> *"Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind." (Qur'an, 5:32)*


And that is how it should be understood and is by many (most). But in the mind of the suicide bombers and those that plan these events they are not killing unjustly. That is what is so sad. Unfortunately they believe they are just justified. How or why I don't know. Like others before who have killed for their 'religion' they clearly read a different text and listen to a different preacher.

J


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

LinznMilly said:


> To those lost in Paris? Not those who also lost their lives in Beirut, only a day before the Paris attacks?
> 
> I admit, at the time of posting my FB status with RIP to the victims of Friday night's atrocities, I was unaware of the Beirut attacks, but they deserve the same respect and their families deserve the same amount of condolences or sympathy... I confess I don't know the stats for the Beirut victims but then I'm only marginally aware of the Paris stats.
> 
> ...


This thread is specifically about Paris, if there was a thread about Beirut I'd more than likely say the same thing on there.



StormyThai said:


> So the KKK and Westbro church represent Christianity then yeah?
> 
> Shitty people are shitty people, who will use any excuse to cause mayhem and destruction..be that a "holy" book or be that the famous five by Enid Blyton...Religion doesn't cause wars or encourage people to do harm, people do that all on their own. But as a species we have to justify our actions...what better way to justify them that by the misinterpretation of a "higher power" eh?
> 
> ...


So tell me then why is it that all these extremist groups seem to follow a certain religion and spout it as the truth? and you still think religion isn't to blame? What planet do you live on?

These ''holy'' books apparently don't encourage people to do harm but you still use it as an example as to why Christians have done certain things in the name of their ''book''? you make no sense at all.

I suggest you actually read the Quran yourself to be honest, if you did you would see that's exactly what it says in there....

I think it's very important to speak out against Islamic terrorism and educate others on what's actually happening instead of just sweeping it all under the rug and saying ''religions not to blame''. This is actually normal for Islam, by definition in the Quran it is ''good'' and ''it's the way of Muhammad'', terrorism is part of fundamental Islam whether you want to admit it or not.

I think we should all be more aware of the future we are giving ourselves and our children and our Grandchildren. It should not be trivialised and I think we all have a responsibility to speak up against it.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> *"Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind." (Qur'an, 5:32)*
> 
> Sounds like a book that condones violence and unjust killing to me -insert sarcasm here-
> Religion hasn't killed anyone...people do that all on their own and I say that all that seem to think religion is the cause should actually read the Quran or the bible for themselves rather than listening to quotes in the media


This is a common piece of rubbish spread by people attempting to portray Islam in a better light.

In the Quran it says if you take a life "that is forbidden by Allah...". Therefore if it is not forbidden by Allah, it is permitted. If you read the complete passage that the quote is taken from (Sura 5:32-33) it is clear that it specifically allows the killing of anyone involved in opposition to "Allah and his Messenger". The term used is 'corruption' or 'mischief' (fasad), which includes all sorts of civil, political and religious opposition. The other term used is 'wage war' which is explained by tafsir as including such things as 'opposition, contradiction and disbelief'.

So, we can see that the claim that Islam forbids the kind of attacks we have seen is false.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Royoyo said:


> These ''holy'' books apparently don't encourage people to do harm but you still use it as an example as to why Christians have done certain things in the name of their ''book''? you make no sense at all.


Being lazy and just quoting myself...can I suggest you read the whole sentence...If these "holy" books did not exist then these shitty people would use something else as justification...


StormyThai said:


> Shitty people are shitty people, who will use any excuse to cause mayhem and destruction..be that a "holy" book or be that the famous five by Enid Blyton...Religion doesn't cause wars or encourage people to do harm, people do that all on their own. But as a species we have to justify our actions...what better way to justify them that by the misinterpretation of a "higher power" eh?


There are millions of people that live peacefully whilst following their religion...if people want to use these stories as an excuse for their atrocities then it's the people that need condemning, not the stories!


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> Being lazy and just quoting myself...can I suggest you read the whole sentence...If these "holy" books did not exist then these shitty people would use something else as justification...
> 
> There are millions of people that live peacefully whilst following their religion..*.if people want to use these stories as an excuse for their atrocities then it's the people that need condemning, not the stories!*


I don't think I have ever heard anything more ridiculous. These ''stories'' that people use as an ''excuse'' influence people massively and ARE part of the reason these awful things are happening in the world.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Ok so lets just ignore the fact that the majority can follow their faith without causing harm to others, because a minority wish to use an excuse for being shitty people 
Putting "excuse" in quotes doesn't change anything


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)




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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

StormyThai said:


> Ok so lets just ignore the fact that the majority can follow their faith without causing harm to others, because a minority wish to use an excuse for being shitty people
> Putting "excuse" in quotes doesn't change anything


I read somewhere the other day that ISIS have an estimated army of 200,000 people, so according to you they're just 200,000 shitty people who all happen to be in the same place and are not influenced at all by religion, they're just shitty people.

Whatever


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> I read somewhere the other day that ISIS have an estimated army of 200,000 people, so according to you they're just 200,000 shitty people who all happen to be in the same place and are not influenced at all by religion, they're just shitty people.
> 
> Whatever


So where exactly is this same place they all just happen to be that you read about somewhere? Do they all live together in one big house?
Realistically, 200,000 isn't a very large number at all when there are millions of Muslims not using religion as an excuse to spread hatred and kill people.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Nettles said:


> So where exactly is this same place they all just happen to be that you read about somewhere? Do they all live together in one big house?
> Realistically, 200,000 isn't a very large number at all when there are millions of Muslims not using religion as an excuse to spread hatred and kill people.


The majority of them live in the same part of the world (Northern Iraq and Eastern Syria) I believe.

I just find it odd that someone would say religion wasn't the motivation behind these attacks or ask why religion is to blame for it :Arghh. ISIS are clearly motivated by Islam, that's not the same as saying that everyone who is a Muslim is motivated by ISIS which I think some of you think is what I'm trying to say - which I'm not at all.


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Religion on its own isn't the cause of all this, it's people's warped understanding/interpretation of it.


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## Rafa (Jun 18, 2012)

I still believe that this is more about power than religion.

Isis, no doubt, use religion, or their interpretation of it, as their 'excuse' for their murderous acts.


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

I think a lot of people need to remember that these evil things called ISIS have killed thousands of Muslims both children and adults in the most horrific ways! would I if it was me be running for my life you bet I would.I live in a street which is mostly Muslim folk and I actually saw one of the mum's taking her child to school this morning when a van slowed down and the passenger actually spat at her and shouted abuse.


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## yelloworchid (Nov 4, 2013)

One of our nieces is on a student exchange in Paris, luckily she's ok, but someone we know knew a mother & daughter who had gone to the concert and were killed


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

Royoyo said:


> This is a common piece of rubbish spread by people attempting to portray Islam in a better light.
> 
> In the Quran it says if you take a life "that is forbidden by Allah...". Therefore if it is not forbidden by Allah, it is permitted. If you read the complete passage that the quote is taken from (Sura 5:32-33) it is clear that it specifically allows the killing of anyone involved in opposition to "Allah and his Messenger". The term used is 'corruption' or 'mischief' (fasad), which includes all sorts of civil, political and religious opposition. The other term used is 'wage war' which is explained by tafsir as including such things as 'opposition, contradiction and disbelief'.
> 
> So, we can see that the claim that Islam forbids the kind of attacks we have seen is false.


Thank you. Wish we could still rep! It is lazy and dishonest to quote 5:32 in part and without context. Here's one translation in full....

_"For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), but afterwards lo! Many of them become prodigals of the earth."
_
Most scholars would agree that "corruption in the earth" in this context includes not being Muslim. In this and in several other cases it is clear that the Koran permits the killing of non-Muslims, some would say encourages.

Oh, and for any virtue signaller still thinking Islam is all sweetness and light, try 4:34 for size...
_
"Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands' absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, *then hit them*. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great."_


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

yelloworchid said:


> One of our nieces is on a student exchange in Paris, luckily she's ok, but someone we know knew a mother & daughter who had gone to the concert and were killed


I am sorry to hear that, I know that my friend has lost his sister. I hope your niece is coping, a friend who lives there said it's very sober and deeply sad place at the moment.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> The majority of them live in the same part of the world (Northern Iraq and Eastern Syria) I believe.
> 
> I just find it odd that someone would say religion wasn't the motivation behind these attacks or ask why religion is to blame for it :Arghh. ISIS are clearly motivated by Islam, that's not the same as saying that everyone who is a Muslim is motivated by ISIS which I think some of you think is what I'm trying to say - which I'm not at all.


I find it even odder that some people think a religion is to blame because of the way some nutters have interpreted it.
When a maniac goes on a killing spree because of their interpretation of a movie, is the movie to blame? If a lunatic listens to a pop song backwards and interprets it to mean they should commit murder, is the song to blame?


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

suewhite said:


> I actually saw one of the mum's taking her child to school this morning when a van slowed down and the passenger actually spat at her and shouted abuse.


This is just disgusting  I would have thought the opinion of that passenger was rare.. but after reading the hatred being spread on social media over the last few days, it's sadly no surprise idiots like that exist.


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Nettles said:


> I find it even odder that some people think a religion is to blame because of the way some nutters have interpreted it.
> When a maniac goes on a killing spree because of their interpretation of a movie, is the movie to blame? If a lunatic listens to a pop song backwards and interprets it to mean they should commit murder, is the song to blame?


You can't compare a religion to a pop song or a movie it's simply not the same thing.

Islamic scriptures and the Quran are part of a sacred religion that have been around for centuries, the power, influence level and belief in it is much stronger for many reasons never mind the fact that people religiously buy into it as a way of life.


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

ouesi said:


> This is just my personal opinion, but I think the only way we're going to get people to stop killing each other in the name of religion is to expose religion in general and promote true compassionate thinking.
> 
> Religion, especially monotheistic ones are about separating one group of "chosen" people from another. Now of course not all religious people turn in to suicide bombers, but the fact remains that the teachings of the major monotheistic religions of the world do lend themselves frighteningly easily to violence. It's really time to evolve past that.
> 
> You can tell me all day long that Islam and Christianity are religions of peace but the historical fact is, Christians and Muslims have been killing and enslaving each other over their beliefs since the religions began thousands of years ago. It does make you wonder what would happen if we would just leave the religions aside and just be humans dealing with fellow humans. Some people would still hate each others, some people would still find niches of like-minded people, but without the righteousness of religion to encourage people to take things way too far.


Not sure if anyone read my earlier post but I'll quote mine in relation to the above by ouesi.



DogLover1981 said:


> I did read at one point that people tend to view people which are different from themselves less positively and care less about harm coming to those people. They may also be less bothered by directly hurting those people themselves. I tend to agree and people do this without even realizing it at times. Admittedly, I know I view some people less positively myself. A few ways in which people are different is religion and politics. In my a little over a year on FB, I've seen a couple of people post that people of this or that religion/politics will be removed from their friend list for example.
> 
> Sometimes I speculate that this has to do with human evolution and it's a source of much conflict in the world. Back in the cave man days, it was probably a wise survival strategy to be suspicious of the neighboring tribe/clan that's using the local resources with which you could be using and possibly has a very different set of beliefs. Too, religion can be used to bring a group together and unite them against that "evil" tribe next door. That too could be a good survival strategy. The Native Americans were known to be constantly fighting against one another and probably did so long before the Europeans arrived. There are conspiracy theories about Europe and the USA intentionally creating the instability in Syria and the region around Syria. I imagine some of these Islamic terrorists do believe this and believe that the people of these countries are evil in some way.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Id have thought that apart from the 20 bombs France dropped on Syria today the obvious force to mobilise would be the much feared French Foreign Legion, not mentioned much nowadays but generally known as a right nasty bunch who literally take no prisoners, sort of a Ninja desert fighting force/commando/SAS/green beret outfit, not the sort you upset


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

Personally I think it's silly to be quoting the bible, quran or whatever in regards to ethics. Both were written thousands of years ago by people that lived long ago in a very different culture and society and lived by very different ethics. An endless argument could made back and forth about whether the quran condones violence but than the same is true of the bible. There are people that feel that parts of the bible could be construed as condoning violence, rape, and slavery for example.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> You can't compare a religion to a pop song or a movie it's simply not the same thing.
> 
> Islamic scriptures and the Quran are part of a sacred religion that have been around for centuries, the power, influence level and belief in it is much stronger for many reasons never mind the fact that people religiously buy into it as a way of life.


Well clearly you missed my point. I'm not comparing a religion to a movie or a pop song. I'm comparing interpretations and the excuses people use to commit murder. One killers interpretation or excuse is no better than another.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> Religion hasn't killed anyone...people do that all on their own and I say that all that seem to think religion is the cause should actually read the Quran or the bible for themselves rather than listening to quotes in the media


Saying that religion hasn't killed anyone is the same type of argument the NRA uses - guns don't kill people, people kill people. And while that may be very true that it takes a person using a gun in a malicious or irresponsible way to cause damage, the fact is, the gun is still very much a player in the damage caused.

In the same way I think it is worth considering that if the teachings of a religion lend themselves so easily to corruption, then perhaps those teaching need to be re-examined or even scrapped.
I have studied the Bible and it's various translations, the Koran not quite as extensively but I'm familiar with it. Both books are extremely violent and gory. It's not all sweetness and light, fluffy rainbows (not that I think you think that, just that cherry picking quotes - be they positive or negative isn't accurate). 
Islam and Christianity both came about around the same time (A History of God by Karen Armstrong is an interesting read), and both resorted to violence right from the very start and have been fighting with each other (and other religions) from the very beginning.

The list of atrocities committed in the name of just these two religions (Islam and Christianity) is thousands of years long. What we are seeing now is absolutely nothing new, we just have better destructive technology. John Lennon wasn't kidding when he said religion gives us something to fight for. And here we are... fighting.

So I say again, if these religions seem to lend themselves so easily to violence against others (not just in the form of terrorism, but conquest and enslavement of entire peoples, subjugation of women, etc.), do we really want to keep sweeping that part under the rug and ignore this very important aspect of religion?

To be clear, I am in no way at all advocating persecution of anyone of faith - any faith. 
I find it ridiculously hypocritical for a Christian to criticize Islam for being a violent religion and use that as an excuse to treat Muslims differently. The Britain First mentality is asinine. However, in an attempt to distance ourselves from that type of xenophobic mentality we have left off an important piece. Yes, Islam is a violent religion, just like Christianity is. They BOTH are. We need to look at the reality here, and the reality is, no religion ever ended a war, but plenty have started because of religion. Something to think about....


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Nettles said:


> Well clearly you missed my point. I'm not comparing a religion to a movie or a pop song. I'm comparing interpretations and the excuses people use to commit murder. One killers interpretation or excuse is no better than another.


I think you should probably just read Ouesi's post......


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

ouesi said:


> Saying that religion hasn't killed anyone is the same type of argument the NRA uses - guns don't kill people, people kill people. And while that may be very true that it takes a person using a gun in a malicious or irresponsible way to cause damage, the fact is, the gun is still very much a player in the damage caused.


But my point is that take those guns away, you don't stop violent crime. Those people would just use a different weapon...America has gun crime - England has knife crime.

Whilst I will agree that the bible and the quran have passages which can be interpreted violently, I can't ignore the fact that the majority of people that follow these books will live peaceful lives, without even considering the atrocities caused by the few.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

StormyThai said:


> I can't ignore the fact that the majority of people that follow these books will live peaceful lives, without even considering the atrocities caused by the few.


And see, I can't ignore the fact that ever since their inception these two religions have been the cause of so much suffering, violence, enslavement, conquest, subjugation... Historically neither one has a very good record.

Honestly though, even those living "peaceful" lives have a lot to answer for. What is up with not wanting people who love each other to get married? What is up not giving women reproductive freedom? What is up with cutting bits off babies' sexual organs? 
It may not be detonating bombs, but the cumulative effect of the little things add up too....


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

People will always find an excuse to impose their will on other people and kill other people. If it's not religion it would be something else. It's human nature.

Politics starts wars and kill many people too. Look at Communisim, how many people were killed in the Vietnam war alone.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> I think you should probably just read Ouesi's post......


Why?


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

ouesi said:


> And see, I can't ignore the fact that ever since their inception these two religions have been the cause of so much suffering, violence, enslavement, conquest, subjugation... Historically neither one has a very good record.
> 
> Honestly though, even those living "peaceful" lives have a lot to answer for. What is up with not wanting people who love each other to get married? What is up not giving women reproductive freedom? What is up with cutting bits off babies' sexual organs?
> It may not be detonating bombs, but the cumulative effect of the little things add up too....


America practised Eugenics, forcibly sterilised their citizens they believed had low intelligence and that wasn't due to religion. Again ,not religion. This inspired Hitler and led to the death of millions.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> What is up with not wanting people who love each other to get married? What is up not giving women reproductive freedom? What is up with cutting bits off babies' sexual organs?


I still think many of those beliefs and practices are open to interpretation. If someone wants to believe it, and it fits in with their own sick and twisted opinions then they'll use it as an excuse.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> America practised Eugenics, forcibly sterilised their citizens they believed had low intelligence and that wasn't due to religion. Again ,not religion. This inspired Hitler and led to the death of millions.


Uh... ??


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

Nettles said:


> Why?


I think she says everything I wanted to say really but I'm just not as good at articulating myself and this whole going around in circles thing doesn't get anyone anywhere.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

Nettles said:


> I still think many of those beliefs and practices are open to interpretation. If someone wants to believe it, and it fits in with their own sick and twisted opinions then they'll use it as an excuse.


Without religion good people will do good things, bad people will do bad things. For good people to do bad things - that takes religion. (Or something like that, it's a great quote that I'm butchering.)

But seriously, religion in it's essence breeds intolerance. It creates intolerance in those who would otherwise be tolerant. It teaches people that being of that faith makes them superior to those of other faiths - as it must in order to be the chosen religion.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Uh... ??


I think the meaning was simply that there are plenty of non-religious sources of inhumanity.

Take Stalin, for example. Butchered millions upon millions of his own people (made the Third Reich look like rank amateurs) and had plenty of seemingly regular folk willing to do it for him, all in the name of power, politics and paranoia. And he HATED religion...


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

in reference to religion you said -



> ouesi - Honestly though, even those living "peaceful" lives have a lot to answer for. What is up with not wanting people who love each other to get married? What is up not giving women reproductive freedom? What is up with cutting bits off babies' sexual organs?





> kimthecat said: ↑
> America practised Eugenics, forcibly sterilised their citizens they believed had low intelligence and that wasn't due to religion. Again ,not religion. This inspired Hitler and led to the death of millions.





ouesi said:


> Uh... ??


Do you really not follow this?


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## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

kimthecat said:


> America practised Eugenics, forcibly sterilised their citizens they believed had low intelligence and that wasn't due to religion. Again ,not religion. This inspired Hitler and led to the death of millions.


Wtaf? When? Post a link, please. Never heard this before in my life.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Without religion good people will do good things, bad people will do bad things. For good people to do bad things - that takes religion. (Or something like that, it's a great quote that I'm butchering.)
> 
> But seriously, religion in it's essence breeds intolerance. It creates intolerance in those who would otherwise be tolerant. It teaches people that being of that faith makes them superior to those of other faiths - as it must in order to be the chosen religion.


I know the quote you mean..








While I agree with the beginning, I disagree that good people do evil. Good people do not do evil. If a good person does evil, they were never good in the first place. They are bad people using religion as an excuse IMO.


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## Jobeth (May 23, 2010)

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1796

Here's one link.


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

kimthecat said:


> in reference to religion you said -
> 
> Do you really not follow this?


Sorry, i really don't follow either? Is this a conspiracy theory?
EDIT.. Just seen a link has been posted. Will read it now.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

sorry double post .


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

cinnamontoast said:


> Wtaf? When? Post a link, please. Never heard this before in my life.


We studied this at school for O level history , 20th century world history . 
Lots of info on google .Heres one link

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Eugenics-and-the-Nazis-the-California-2549771.php


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Sorry , I might not have made my point clear.

Ousei makes a true point about babies being mutilated etc in the name of religion . The point I'm trying to make is that these things are also done for non religious purposes. 
I just assumed that people , at least in the US , knew about the things done in the name of eugenics to US citizens.
There have been programmes on TV about it .

Religion isn't to blame for everything , that's an unbalanced view and I'm trying to redress that balance.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

ouesi said:


> I find it ridiculously hypocritical for a Christian to criticize Islam for being a violent religion and use that as an excuse to treat Muslims differently. *The Britain First mentality is asinine. * However, in an attempt to distance ourselves from that type of xenophobic mentality we have left off an important piece. Yes, Islam is a violent religion, just like Christianity is. They BOTH are. We need to look at the reality here, and the reality is, no religion ever ended a war, but plenty have started because of religion. Something to think about....


I must have missed something ( it's long thread ! )
Can you explain what the Britain First mentality is ?

Also , did you know about US eugenics ?


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2015)

Jesthar said:


> I think the meaning was simply that there are plenty of non-religious sources of inhumanity.


Which I do not dispute. No where did I state religion was the only source of inhumanity.



kimthecat said:


> Religion isn't to blame for everything , that's an unbalanced view and I'm trying to redress that balance.


And again, I have not in any of my posts stated that religion is to blame for everything.

Stating the US practiced eugenics is on a par with stating Muslims practice terrorism. Let's not try to "redress the balance" by lobbing the same grenade back and forth 
Are you aware of the irony here? You're arguing against blaming religion for the acts of terrorists by using an example that blames Americans for the actions of the Nazis.

Which goes right back to the whole point that I made in my first post, that we have to start thinking compassionately instead of with a competitive "us versus them" mentality. We have to quit with this competitive "well at least my people/country/religion/race isn't as bad as yours". It's all part of the problem. It's still more "us versus them". Change the whole conversation, change the whole paradigm. Look at the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is that monotheistic religions (along with other factors like nationalism, the media, etc.) encourage competitive thinking and separating ourselves in to the good guys and the bad guys. It's inaccurate and clearly unhelpful in the world we live in today. We're not competing with the neighboring tribe over prime fishing spots. We're all completely interconnected humans living on an ever shrinking planet. 
We have got to move beyond this duality kind of thinking if humanity is ever going to evolve past this violent streak of ours - which I believe we can.


----------



## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

ouesi said:


> Which I do not dispute. No where did I state religion was the only source of inhumanity.
> 
> And again, I have not in any of my posts stated that religion is to blame for everything.
> 
> ...


I find it interesting that, to an extent, I think we're wanting the same thing. Compassion and tolerance. The difference is, I believe we can do it with religions, you don't.

If two opposing viewpoints can still want and hope for the same outcome, perhaps there actually is hope for humanity yet!


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## Royoyo (Feb 21, 2013)

I just wanted to say my last bit on this whole thing and then I will shut up (I swear).

I don't hate Muslims, I think most Muslims just want to mind their own business and I think that everyone should be free to follow whatever religion they want, peacefully.

I think the thing that bothers me is that people see the innocent victims - whatever creed, colour, or religion/non-belief they had - as the lesser of the two and less important than the hurt feelings of Muslims. There seems to be so much defence of Islam and Muslims after events like this seem to happen. People say stupid things like "the important thing to remember is that this doesn't represent Islam", or "whats important is that we stand by the Muslims who will be vilified for this".

What is important to me is that over a hundred people are dead. They've been killed for being Western, by members of an ideology which largely hates any kind of enlightened liberal society. So why are we not saying that the important thing is that we stand by those who have been killed, and we stand by the culture, our culture, which has been attacked? And we stand against the ideologies that hate it?.

I just want this stuff to stop happening.

But anyway, tah for the debate


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## Nettles (Mar 24, 2011)

Royoyo said:


> I just wanted to say my last bit on this whole thing and then I will shut up (I swear).
> 
> I don't hate Muslims, I think most Muslims just want to mind their own business and I think that everyone should be free to follow whatever religion they want, peacefully.
> 
> ...


I know you've said you're done on the subject but I just want to add my two pence worth.. 

Most importantly, at no stage did I think you hated Muslims and I would hope at no stage anyone thought that of you.

The point I've been trying to make (albeit confusingly) is that I also think everyone should be entitled to their own religion and beliefs as long as they practice them peacefully and those that do not practice peacefully are not automatically associated with those that do.

As for defending Muslims.. Sympathy and compassion are not limited. I can still be sympathetic to those who have lost their lives, while defending those who are being blamed in the wrong. It doesn't make me care any less for those who have died. All the while, I can still also condemn those who commit such horendous atrocities.

Anyways, that was my two pence worth and like you, I'm now done with this thread


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Royoyo said:


> I just wanted to say my last bit on this whole thing and then I will shut up (I swear).
> 
> I don't hate Muslims, I think most Muslims just want to mind their own business and I think that everyone should be free to follow whatever religion they want, peacefully.
> 
> ...


What about the Muslims killed in the ISIS attack on Beirut? ISIS have killed MANY more Muslims than any other sector - they are not westerners so why are ISIS targeting them as well then???
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/w...cks-paris.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0



We westerners really do need to take a long hard look in the mirror. John Pilger has done a fascinating analogy between ISIS & Pol Pot. I don't think our current world leaders want peace . They will end up dragging us into the war of all wars because they are warmongers. The media will distort the facts & the masses will be fully supportive of increased military action in the middle east. But we will end up reaping the whirlwind.

John Pilger: The root cause of terrorism & what we can do about it - http://linkis.com/www.stopwar.org.uk/i/eyirv


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## jamat (Jun 3, 2015)

Lilylass said:


> I find it absolutely amazing that nearly every war and conflict that's ever happened can be linked back to religion ..... surely religion should make us better people, not monsters


 You would think and hope that wouldn't you ..... but religion just seems to make you a better person than the person next to you and thats the problem.

I have my own believes and I am happy for people to practice theirs but to some (these radicals) if you are not in their club then you are less than worthless 

My heart goes out to all those in France, not just the families that have lost loved ones but the men and women of the police, armed forces and intelligence services that are now putting their lives on the line to bring these monsters to justice.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

noushka05 said:


> What about the Muslims killed in the ISIS attack on Beirut? ISIS have killed MANY more Muslims than any other sector - they are not westerners so why are ISIS targeting them as well then???
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/w...cks-paris.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
> 
> 
> ...


*Thank you for posting the link to John Pilger's report noushka. I remember so well when all the pol pot stuff was going on. It broke my heart.*
*I hope people will read this below, ( taken from John Pilger's article).*

*Under a bogus "humanitarian" Oil for Food Programme, $100 was allotted for each Iraqi to live on for a year. This figure had to pay for the entire society's infrastructure and essential services, such as power and water.

"Imagine," the UN Assistant Secretary General, Hans Von Sponeck, told me, "setting that pittance against the lack of clean water, and the fact that the majority of sick people cannot afford treatment, and the sheer trauma of getting from day to day, and you have a glimpse of the nightmare. And make no mistake, this is deliberate. I have not in the past wanted to use the word genocide, but now it is unavoidable."

Disgusted, Von Sponeck resigned as UN Humanitarian Co-ordinator in Iraq. His predecessor, Denis Halliday, an equally distinguished senior UN official, had also resigned. "I was instructed," Halliday said, "to implement a policy that satisfies the definition of genocide: a deliberate policy that has effectively killed well over a million individuals, children and adults."

A study by the United Nations Children's Fund, Unicef, found that between 1991 and 1998, the height of the blockade, there were 500,000 "excess" deaths of Iraqi infants under the age of five. An American TV reporter put this to Madeleine Albright, US Ambassador to the United Nations, asking her, "Is the price worth it?" Albright replied, "We think the price is worth it."

Can people still not see why such evil acts as Paris are happening?
*


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## Gemmaa (Jul 19, 2009)

Royoyo said:


> I think the thing that bothers me is that people see the innocent victims - whatever creed, colour, or religion/non-belief they had - as the lesser of the two and less important than the hurt feelings of Muslims. There seems to be so much defence of Islam and Muslims after events like this seem to happen. People say stupid things like "the important thing to remember is that this doesn't represent Islam", or "whats important is that we stand by the Muslims who will be vilified for this".


A friend of a friend of mine was pulled off a train twice on the same journey, manhandled, interrogated and totally humiliated.... because his headphones were hanging out of his bag and someone thought he was a terrorist.
He was born in England, he's a charity worker and he's not even Muslim.

I don't think it's stupid to stand by innocent people.


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## Jesthar (May 16, 2011)

noushka05 said:


> What about the Muslims killed in the ISIS attack on Beirut? ISIS have killed MANY more Muslims than any other sector - they are not westerners so why are ISIS targeting them as well then???


Because to ISIS, anyone who is not following their particular interpretation of islam is not a real muslim, and therefore a valid target. When ISIS invade an area, non-muslims get 'convert or die', muslims get 'join us and fight or die' - they have even stated publicly that their priority as a Caliphate is the targetting of "Muslims who have become infidels" (such as Shiites). Traditionally the various branches and flavours of islam have spent far more time and effort fighting and killing each other than any outsiders, and that goes all the way back to the first generations after their founder died.


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## CavalierOwner (Feb 5, 2012)

I might be being a pit stupid here but just seen that France overnight have done 120 odd raids on people thought to be linked with terrorism and found loads of weapons.  if they knew these people could have been a threat why wasn't this done before Fridays tragedy? It's like waiting around for something awful to happen before doing anything about it.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

CavalierOwner said:


> I might be being a pit stupid here but just seen that France overnight have done 120 odd raids on people thought to be linked with terrorism and found loads of weapons.  if they knew these people could have been a threat why wasn't this done before Fridays tragedy? It's like waiting around for something awful to happen before doing anything about it.


Nothing to say they knew before the attacks

Police find bodies/names/mobile phones, make a link, raid 1 address, find 20 links, raid 200 off links from that, intel tracks phones, ANPR tracks cars, etc, etc


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2015)

kimthecat said:


> Can you explain what the Britain First mentality is ?





kimthecat said:


> Also , did you know about US eugenics ?


Hrm... funny that you're kind of accusatory in your question to me about eugenics yet you're not familiar with Britain First?

If you must know my CV, while I have lived in the U.S. since the late 80's I did not grow up here, and where I did grow up I got an excellent education on how richer, more developed countries treat not only other nations, but their own people. I'm well aware of what the U.S. and other governments have done to other peoples and continue to do. Which is one of the many reasons I argue against indoctrination in all its incarnations.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2015)

noushka05 said:


> What about the Muslims killed in the ISIS attack on Beirut? ISIS have killed MANY more Muslims than any other sector - they are not westerners so why are ISIS targeting them as well then???
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/w...cks-paris.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0


This is a poignant and very well written article (and one of the reasons why my FB profile did not change).
Same one I posted much earlier in this thread.


ouesi said:


> I thought this was well worth the read.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/w...cks-paris.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0


Just a short snippet:

*Monuments around the world lit up in the colors of the French flag; presidential speeches touted the need to defend "shared values;" Facebook offered users a one-click option to overlay their profile pictures with the French tricolor, a service not offered for the Lebanese flag. On Friday the social media giant even activated Safety Check, a feature usually reserved for natural disasters that lets people alert loved ones that they are unhurt; they had not activated it the day before for Beirut.

"When my people died, no country bothered to light up its landmarks in the colors of their flag," Elie Fares, a Lebanese doctor, wrote on his blog. "When my people died, they did not send the world into mourning. Their death was but an irrelevant fleck along the international news cycle, something that happens in those parts of the world."

The implication, numerous Lebanese commentators complained, was that Arab lives mattered less. Either that, or that their country - relatively calm despite the war next door - was perceived as a place where carnage is the norm, an undifferentiated corner of a basket-case region.*

*.....*

*The compassion gap is even more evident when it comes to the situation in Syria itself, where death tolls comparable to the 129 so far in the Paris attacks are far from rare and, during the worst periods, were virtually daily occurrences.

"Imagine if what happened in Paris last night would happen there on a daily basis for five years," said Nour Kabbach, who fled the heavy bombardment of her home city of Aleppo, Syria, several years ago and now works in humanitarian aid in Beirut.
"Now imagine all that happening without global sympathy for innocent lost lives, with no special media updates by the minute, and without the support of every world leader condemning the violence," she wrote on Facebook. Finally, she said, ask yourself what it would be like to have to explain to your child why an attack in "another pretty city like yours" got worldwide attention and your own did not.*

This is exactly what I'm talking about. We have managed to distance ourselves from other peoples to the point that an atrocity in one country matters more than another. "Our" people matter more than "those" people.
Where does that thinking come from? Where does it originate? This is what we need to be looking at and addressing. Instead of this constant eye for an eye leaving everyone blind, we need to address that which has separated us from our fellow humans and fix it. In my humble opinion, religion is definitely one of those things that needs to be looked at. It's just one more reason for people to distance themselves from others who are not like them.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

kimthecat said:


> America practised Eugenics, forcibly sterilised their citizens they believed had low intelligence and that wasn't due to religion. Again ,not religion. This inspired Hitler and led to the death of millions.


And who do we thank for that?

None other than the father of eugenics himself, Francis Galton. An Englishman.:Facepalm

Galton had been troubled by the increase of 'unscholarly, illiterate and criminal type people' within society and, therefore, became anxious about the future of the human race as a whole and where it might be heading if the numbers of such people were allowed to continue to increase without imposing some form of restriction.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2015)

Zaros said:


> anxious about the future of the human race as a whole and where it might be heading if the numbers of such people were allowed to continue to increase without imposing some form of restriction.


Gotta say, many of us share that anxiety... (She says hypocritically as I have 2 children of my own...)


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Gotta say, many of us share that anxiety... (She says hypocritically as I have 2 children of my own...)


 And you consider yourself to be what?

Unscholarly, illiterate or just plain criminal?


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2015)

Zaros said:


> And you consider yourself to be what?
> 
> Unscholarly, illiterate or just plain criminal?


Oh I'm all of the above, definitely not stock that needs to be reproduced. Thankfully nurture appears to be stronger than nature thus far.
But I'm talking about population in general, not certain types (but you knew that )


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Zaros said:


> And who do we thank for that?
> 
> None other than the father of eugenics himself, Francis Galton. An Englishman.:Facepalm
> 
> Galton had been troubled by the increase of 'unscholarly, illiterate and criminal type people' within society and, therefore, became anxious about the future of the human race as a whole and where it might be heading if the numbers of such people were allowed to continue to increase without imposing some form of restriction.


Yup, its all there on Google under Eugenics.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Oh I'm all of the above, definitely not stock that needs to be reproduced. Thankfully nurture appears to be stronger than nature thus far.
> But I'm talking about population in general, not certain types (but you knew that )


I wouldn't be too sure about that if I were you.

Here's my lot;










And as you may have already speculated from my inability to contribute anything worthwhile to the forum, I haven't contributed anything worthwhile to the world either. 



kimthecat said:


> Yup, its all there on Google under Eugenics.


Is it? Well to be perfectly honest, I prefer not to use Google for anything because they've had a slight tendency to get a few things terribly wrong in the past and I'd hate to be misguided by the misguided.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

> kimthecat said: ↑
> Can you explain what the Britain First mentality is ?
> kimthecat said: ↑
> Also , did you know about US eugenics ?





> Hrm... funny that you're kind of accusatory in your question to me about eugenics yet you're not familiar with Britain First?


I know what British First is. I have lived in multi cultural West London for years and I have relatives in East London so I have knowledge and experience of these dreadful groups.

ouesi


> I find it ridiculously hypocritical for a Christian to criticize Islam for being a violent religion and use that as an excuse to treat Muslims differently. The Britain First mentality is asinine.


Do you really know what they do? Do you know enough of this group so that you can apply their mentality to every hypocritical Christian that criticises Islam. BF are far worse than asinine. They fill me with fear and I am not a Muslim. You've made a blanket statement here , you've lumped every Christian who might have criticised Islam and acted different towards Muslims with out you knowing what each one said or did and compared them to the dreadful things Britain First do.

Re The Eugenics post . Your reply to me was two silly emoticons and nothing else, no explanation . How am I supposed to know what you mean to be able to reply. You don't have to reply .
I've felt like doing that to some of your post but I don't.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

ouesi said:


> Which I do not dispute. No where did I state religion was the only source of inhumanity.
> 
> And again, I have not in any of my posts stated that religion is to blame for everything.


I didn't mean to imply you personally did. That was a general statement added at the bottom of my post . I will be more careful in future!

I said religion is not to blame for everything, it can be used and abused by people, the same as people abuse politics, as people abuse other races , etc . and I am giving example of that.

You said " What is up with cutting bits off babies' sexual organs?.
Let me give you another example of non religious cutting bits of babies sexual organs. The eugenics one was the first that came into my head perhaps because of the impact it had when I watched the programme about it .
The second one came this morning when i was thinking of one of my old boyfriends!

Britain and US practised circumcism for hygenic reasons . It was a common procedure well into the 50s and 60s and may well be still done.

FMG I believe is considered tribal and cultural rather than religious.



> The bigger picture is that monotheistic religions (along with other factors like nationalism, the media, etc.) encourage competitive thinking and separating ourselves in to the good guys and the bad guys. It's inaccurate and clearly unhelpful in the world we live in today. We're not competing with the neighboring tribe over prime fishing spots. We're all completely interconnected humans living on an ever shrinking planet.
> We have got to move beyond this duality kind of thinking if humanity is ever going to evolve past this violent streak of ours - which I believe we can.


Humans evolved to be altruistic and tribal , its our nature. If you remove religion , politics etc you leave a void and humans will that void and use other reason fight and control.
We are living in an over crowded world and when it comes to a shortage of resources than sadly we will fight over those. You only have to see decent people turn almost crazy in pressured circumstances school parents and local residents arguing and shouting over parking places outside schools. 
Look at the way we act on forums when we don't agree with others training methods or tools . 
I rally wish it could be that we are excellent to each other but I'm not hopeful .


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Just seen this on Yahoo news:

A first charter flight carrying dozens of Syrian refugees landed at Glasgow Airport on Tuesday as part of British government plans to bring in 20,000 asylum-seekers over the next five years.

The plane from Beirut, carrying around 100 people according to British media, is the first of several flights in the coming weeks expected to transport 1,000 of the new arrivals by Christmas.

"This is a proud day for Scotland," the Scottish government's minister for Europe and international development Humza Yousaf said in a statement.

"I would like to extend the warmest of welcomes on behalf of the people of Scotland to the Syrian refugees who have arrived in Glasgow today, and wish them all the best as they are supported to start their new lives here," he said.

Prime Minister David Cameron has resisted calls for Britain to take in more refugees and has said it will only take in people from UN refugee camps, warning that accepting arrivals in Europe would encourage more people to make dangerous journeys.

Home Secretary Theresa May said earlier that the refugees have undergone "rigorous" checks, following reports that one of the men who carried out Friday's attacks in Paris travelled along a migrant route.

"There are two levels of screening that take place" by the UN and the Home Office, including "biometrics", May told parliament on Monday.

New arrivals will be given a five-year visa allowing them to remain in Britain, after which they can apply for leave to remain longer.

"To the first refugees fleeing war-torn Syria who will arrive at Glasgow Airport today, we'd just like to say: 'Welcome to Scotland'," read a front-page headline on Scotland's The National daily.

During a visit to Glasgow Central Mosque on Monday, Scotland's Frist Minister Nicola Sturgeon warned against prejudice.

"I urge people not to let these terrorists win by dividing us and driving a wedge between the multi-cultural society Scotland is home to," she was quoted in an official statement as saying.

"We are due to welcome Syrian refugees to Scotland tomorrow and we need to show that we are a country of compassion and acceptance," she said.

"These people are fleeing their homes in the search for protection and security, and we are their refuge. We cannot let the actions of the few destroy the safety of the many."


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

. I can remember Ugandian Asians arriving here in the 70s, and meeting some. One lady worked in my office and it gave me an insight on what it was like for them and I'm proud we are still helping all these years later refugees.
I've just walked the dogs up the road to the park and I could see the top of Wembley Stadium Arch lit up for the French/ English match so will be thinking of the people who lost their lives and those suffering from injuries and bereavement.
I hope the French win the match


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## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

Germany's match tonight has been cancelled, reports are that a bomb was found in an ambulance outside

http://news.sky.com/story/1589396/germany-match-cancelled-over-concrete-threat


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Maybe I'm reading too much into this but two attacks very close together, happening after the open border thing for the refugees, coincidental or not?


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## MollySmith (May 7, 2012)

So flipping proud of this country and football in general that was such a moving lead up to the kick off and so brave of London to keep playing. I hope it all goes off safely.


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

I was in a theatre on Saturday night for a concert, and the orchestra played the Marseillaise. Everyone stood up and hummed because we didn't know the words but wanted to express something, except for one proud Frenchman, who sang. It was very moving.


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Animallover26 said:


> Maybe I'm reading too much into this but two attacks very close together, happening after the open border thing for the refugees, coincidental or not?


100% linked..... ISIL could muster a whole army in Europe now


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## Lurcherlad (Jan 5, 2013)

MollySmith said:


> So flipping proud of this country and football in general that was such a moving lead up to the kick off and so brave of London to keep playing. I hope it all goes off safely.


Can't help but be moved by it. There but for the grace ............


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## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> 100% linked..... ISIL could muster a whole army in Europe now


It may well have happened anyway, but the idiotic decision to throw open the doors has cost thousands of lives


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Is it worth mentioning that so far all identified attackers were home grown  not refugees










(the * is the chap who carried the syrian passport, not confirmed as genuine or fake yet)


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Getting back to religion Christianity preaches love and forgiveness and from the 10 commandments Thou shalt not kill.

Whatever we personally think , it doesn't change anything. The world isn't a safe place any more.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

grumpy goby said:


> Is it worth mentioning that so far all identified attackers were home grown  not refugees
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this as I was just about too...not that it will change the opinion of some, facts just get in the way!
Indecently Serbian police have arrested a man carrying a Syrian passport with the same details as one found near the body of one of the Paris suicide bombers, just with a different photo...take from that what you will I guess...


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## ForestWomble (May 2, 2013)

Well that's 'good', I'm glad that it wasn't what I feared, that someone from ISIS had got in with the refugees. Still very frightening though of course, why would French born want to kill their own people? Scary world.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

JANICE199 said:


> *Thank you for posting the link to John Pilger's report noushka. I remember so well when all the pol pot stuff was going on. It broke my heart.*
> *I hope people will read this below, ( taken from John Pilger's article).*
> 
> *Under a bogus "humanitarian" Oil for Food Programme, $100 was allotted for each Iraqi to live on for a year. This figure had to pay for the entire society's infrastructure and essential services, such as power and water.*
> ...


John Pilger is one of the best journalist & his articles really make you think. I really hope people will read that article as well Jan. Because the way the west treats non- westerners is despicable. We never seem to learn anything from past 'mistakes' 



Jesthar said:


> Because to ISIS, anyone who is not following their particular interpretation of islam is not a real muslim, and therefore a valid target. When ISIS invade an area, non-muslims get 'convert or die', muslims get 'join us and fight or die' - they have even stated publicly that their priority as a Caliphate is the targetting of "Muslims who have become infidels" (such as Shiites). Traditionally the various branches and flavours of islam have spent far more time and effort fighting and killing each other than any outsiders, and that goes all the way back to the first generations after their founder died.


I was just making a point when I said that Jesthar  Have you seen this really interesting article on the 'greyzone'? https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17...-of-coexistence-between-muslims-and-the-west/

_The attack had "further [brought] division to the world," the group said, boasting that it had polarized society and "eliminated the grayzone," representing coexistence between religious groups. As a result, it said, Muslims living in the West would soon no longer be welcome in their own societies. Treated with increasing suspicion, distrust and hostility by their fellow citizens as a result of the deadly shooting, Western Muslims would soon be forced to "either apostatize … or they [migrate] to the Islamic State, and thereby escape persecution from the crusader governments and citizens," the group stated, while threatening of more attacks to come._

ISIS are achieving their goal 



ouesi said:


> This is a poignant and very well written article (and one of the reasons why my FB profile did not change).
> Same one I posted much earlier in this thread.
> 
> Just a short snippet:
> ...


I thought it was a great article too - very thought provoking. And it made me feel really ashamed of my heartless culture . I agree religion has a lot to answer for, it can not only separate us from our fellow humans but it has separated us from the natural world. ( Animistic religions are the only ones that get my thumbs up lol.) I believe the msm & our capitalist culture are the driving force behind this dehuminastion of 'other peoples' . We have politicians (even our PM!) calling refugees 'migrants', 'SWARMS'?? How disgusting is that? These are deliberate efforts to dehumanise these people. The media have been constantly demonising & fearmongering you only need to look at some of the posts on this forum to see people have no compassion for these desperate people. Its terrifying. I dread to think where it will end. World war 3 probably.



Animallover26 said:


> Just seen this on Yahoo news:
> 
> A first charter flight carrying dozens of Syrian refugees landed at Glasgow Airport on Tuesday as part of British government plans to bring in 20,000 asylum-seekers over the next five years.
> 
> ...


Well done Scotland - they are so much more altruistic than we are south of the border!



Colliebarmy said:


> 100% linked..... ISIL could muster a whole army in Europe now





negative creep said:


> It may well have happened anyway, but the idiotic decision to throw open the doors has cost thousands of lives


Have a heart fgs, most of them are ordinary people fleeing this! ----


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

This is really moving. Hug a Muslim -


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> John Pilger is one of the best journalist & his articles really make you think. I really hope people will read that article as well Jan. Because the way the west treats non- westerners is despicable. We never seem to learn anything from past 'mistakes'


He is, perhaps, the greatest journalist.

I have a great deal of respect for Mr Pilger Noush' I like the way he highlights and speaks out against injustices. I respect his condemnation of the 'embedded media' eventhough the military has 'advised' him he is more than likely to be killed in war torn countries without their guidance and protection. To be brutally honest, I'm surprised the 'military' haven't killed him. After all he seems to have gotten himself under the skins of many powerful officials. 

I particularly liked his exposure of the present mean Queen of England who denied the Chagossians the right to be returned to their homelands in 2004/5?. These poor people, subjected to extreme poverty, starvation and suicide, had previously won a high court battle that decreed the corrupt British Govt' had not acted in accordance with their human rights.
Their home, the island of Diego Garcia, had been stolen from the people back in the 60's by the British Govt' and then given to the American Govt' so that they could establish a military base on its soil.

*Tell that common smart 4r53 we create poor people and poverty so that the rest of us can all wear designer labels!*


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## Moobli (Feb 20, 2012)

Police dog killed in Saint Denis siege 

https://www.rt.com/news/322537-france-police-dog-operation/


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

Moobli said:


> Police dog killed in Saint Denis siege
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/322537-france-police-dog-operation/


Ironically the dog has more humanity, protecting those he served alongside with than any of the terrorists who committed the barbaric acts last week.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

BBC news reporter breaks down during his broadcast this morning.






This really has affected everyone


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## yelloworchid (Nov 4, 2013)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3323495/Hero-police-dog-blown-terrorists-stand-Diesel-seven-year-old-Belgian-Shepherd-honoured-dying-defend-colours-killed-suicide-bomber-sent-apartment.html

R.I.P Diesel


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Animallover26 said:


> Well that's 'good', I'm glad that it wasn't what I feared, that someone from ISIS had got in with the refugees. Still very frightening though of course, why would French born want to kill their own people? Scary world.


Not sure they were all BORN in France but a birth place is an accident, your genes/DNA decide who you are, how many UK Asians support Pakistan at the cricket? Rod Stewart was born in London but dont call him English!


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## Muze (Nov 30, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> Not sure they were all BORN in France but a birth place is an accident, your genes/DNA decide who you are, how many UK Asians support Pakistan at the cricket? Rod Stewart was born in London but dont call him English!


It's unlikely to be purely genetic IMO.

I imagine they grow up with frustration, suffering and become despondent..... they have a real grievance and they find a cause.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

Colliebarmy said:


> Not sure they were all BORN in France but a birth place is an accident, your genes/DNA decide who you are, how many UK Asians support Pakistan at the cricket? Rod Stewart was born in London but dont call him English!


I support the All blacks in rugby...oh crap, does that mean I'm a Kiwi now?


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## yelloworchid (Nov 4, 2013)

The same main attraction by these terrorist groups is they make a nobody feel like a somebody


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## grumpy goby (Jan 18, 2012)

Colliebarmy said:


> Not sure they were all BORN in France but a birth place is an accident, your genes/DNA decide who you are, how many UK Asians support Pakistan at the cricket? Rod Stewart was born in London but dont call him English!


What a load of crock. Seriously... is it still 1952 or something? Are British asians not still British just because their ancestery had a different nationality. I'm sorry, but what cricket team they follow means jack sh*t, the colour of their skin means jack-sh*t, the god they worship means jack-shi*t and the country of their parents/grandparents/great grandparents birth means jack-sh*t. The PERSON is what matters, the context matters.

Was Anders Breivik not Norwegian when he massacred an island full of children (<92)? Did anyone analyse where he was born and put it down to that? No they didnt. Because he was white and he was christian. He was just "crazy". Or the lad who shot up a church in america? Or the lad who shot up a cinema? Or the countless white kids that walk into US schools and shoot their teachers and classmates. Why do they get a different analysis? Because they are white, christian and dont look like they might be foreign. Because they dont support some bigotted ideal about border control and some underlying racist ideals.

Sorry if it doesnt suit your anti-refugee mindset but these young men, so far, have been identified as French. French nationals, not foreigners, not immigrants, not refugees. French. And it would do the world a lot more good to establish what is driving nationals to kill people of their own country in such horrendous ways then to just ignore it and blame it on "'cos they are foreign". If nothing else it is an insult to the rest of their race.

These people have reasons for turning to extremism, and the governments around the world need to identify those reasons and work towards stamp them out. Not do what ISIS what us to do, and ignorantly blanket blame refugees (who are running from them!) and other young people who will turn to them when they feel Society has turned its back on them.

There are still people to find, and identify, and maybe some will be foreign or even fake refugees - but that doesnt change the fact that 99.9% of those fleeing syria and fleeing these maniacs. They are fleeing being killed in their homes, schools and streets. If I was in their shoes, I would bloody run too. The fact is, terrorists are as likely, if not more likely, to have been born & raised here.

Most of this thread has been reasoned, but I give up. Im drawing a line under it with this ranty post!

/rantoff


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

the thing is that UK born asians have the right to support who they like, they can CHOOSE, when it comes to blowing up and shooting folk NO, they DONT have that right. hunt them down to the last man, we have Mi5, Mi6, Special Branch, the SAS, all able to sort them out and those who object to GCHQ having surveillance powers should be thrown in jail for treason, along with Corbyn


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

What on earth are you jabbering on about now?


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## stuaz (Sep 22, 2012)

@Colliebarmy were you dropped on your head as a child?

You do know that colour of your skin has no bearing on whether you can pick up a gun and go nuts with it.

You do get that right??

Your post seems to indicate that all Asians should be "hunted" because they "may" commit a crime based on there skin colour or where there family might have come from many generations ago?

This isn't something I accuse people off normally, but your verging on racist remarks now and are just making yourself look stupid.


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

Colliebarmy said:


> the thing is that UK born *asians *have the right to support who they like, they can CHOOSE, when it comes to blowing up and shooting folk NO, they DONT have that right. *hunt them down to the last man,* we have *Mi5, Mi6, Special Branch, the SAS, all able to sort them out* and those who object to GCHQ having surveillance powers should be thrown in jail for treason, along with Corbyn


You CB, are a prime example of the problem. The above is typical race hate and can do nothing but serve to widen the divides between people.

If it's escaped your limited understanding the idea is to unite the people (bring them together) not drive them further apart.


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## Dogloverlou (Dec 8, 2013)

Just saw this on FB which just about sums it up really -


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## diefenbaker (Jan 15, 2011)

Colliebarmy said:


> how many UK Asians support Pakistan at the cricket?


4. You do realise that Asia is a big place right ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/5296056.stm

"But when I asked about his kids' allegiances, he said they supported England in football and cricket."

To summarize for you... They CHOOSE England.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

diefenbaker said:


> 4. You do realise that Asia is a big place right ?
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/5296056.stm
> 
> ...


English football and cricket teams are so crap at times that I'm amazed anyone supports them.  ( I'm English by the way)


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## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> Have a heart fgs, most of them are ordinary people fleeing this! ----


In this instance I feel Cameron is completely right in taking a select number of genuine refugees from camps in the Middle East. Throwing open the border has caused a humanitarian crisis where the only winners are ISIS the people traffickers sending families to drown.

Ultimately how ISIS came to be is irrelevant now, the only question is how we deal with them. All these pictures and memes about fighting hatred are all well and good, but this isn't a group like the IRA or ETA who can be negotiated with because the have a limited political aim. This is a group that massacres entire villages, systematically rapes young girls, publicly beheads aid workers, throws homosexuals off buildings, burns prisoners alive (something even Al Qaeda condemned) and whose only goal is worldwide domination. A group whose members have no fear of death and no concept of the Geneva Convention or rules of engagement. We may have differing views but we can be sure they despise us both equally because we don't conform to their ultra strict version of Islam.

So how do we negotiate with a group like this? Simple answer is that you can't. We have to cut their sources of funding but also break their military strength, and air power alone can't do this. Whatever the solution, it's going to involve a lot of bloodshed and collateral damage.


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Zaros said:


> He is, perhaps, the greatest journalist.
> 
> I have a great deal of respect for Mr Pilger Noush' I like the way he highlights and speaks out against injustices. I respect his condemnation of the 'embedded media' eventhough the military has 'advised' him he is more than likely to be killed in war torn countries without their guidance and protection. To be brutally honest, I'm surprised the 'military' haven't killed him. After all he seems to have gotten himself under the skins of many powerful officials.
> 
> ...


I had never heard of the Chagossians Zaros so after reading this I went off to find out more & OMG am I horrified. I cannot tell you how ashamed I feel. How anyone can be proud of this country or be a royalist is beyond me. We, the USA - the G7 are the biggest terrorists on the planet - is there any wonder OUR actions drive fundamentalism?

Pilger is a man of integrity & this is what he says about our media - *John Pilger: How the media promotes the lies leading us to catastrophic war*
*The world faces the prospect of major war, but the truth is turned upside down and inside out by journalists, including those who promoted the lies that led to the Iraq bloodbath .http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/new...motes-the-lies-leading-us-to-catastrophic-war*

And Cameron is using Paris to prime us for war & because of our media bias the masses will support him I fear.

For anyone else who hadn't heard of the Chagossians I found the Pilger documentary on it. Hi @JANICE199, I also found the documentary he did about Pol Pot - I haven't finished watching it yet but what I've seen up to now is really shocking -- 'within 3 years 3 million would be dead'... OMG











New world order Zaros.





Colliebarmy said:


> the thing is that UK born asians have the right to support who they like, they can CHOOSE, when it comes to blowing up and shooting folk NO, they DONT have that right. hunt them down to the last man, we have Mi5, Mi6, Special Branch, the SAS, all able to sort them out and those who object to GCHQ having surveillance powers should be thrown in jail for treason, along with Corbyn


Its brainwashed bigots that terrify me.





negative creep said:


> In this instance I feel Cameron is completely right in taking a select number of genuine refugees from camps in the Middle East. Throwing open the border has caused a humanitarian crisis where the only winners are ISIS the people traffickers sending families to drown.
> 
> Ultimately how ISIS came to be is irrelevant now, the only question is how we deal with them. All these pictures and memes about fighting hatred are all well and good, but this isn't a group like the IRA or ETA who can be negotiated with because the have a limited political aim. This is a group that massacres entire villages, systematically rapes young girls, publicly beheads aid workers, throws homosexuals off buildings, burns prisoners alive (something even Al Qaeda condemned) and whose only goal is worldwide domination. A group whose members have no fear of death and no concept of the Geneva Convention or rules of engagement. We may have differing views but we can be sure they despise us both equally because we don't conform to their ultra strict version of Islam.
> 
> So how do we negotiate with a group like this? Simple answer is that you can't. We have to cut their sources of funding but also break their military strength, and air power alone can't do this. Whatever the solution, it's going to involve a lot of bloodshed and collateral damage.


So refugees who have travelled hundreds of perilous miles fleeing their war torn country aren't genuine? Wow

Didn't you know that we sell arms to our allies and are they in turn are arming & funding ISIS? Saudi chops off hundreds of heads annually, blows other countries to bits, support terrorists yet they are OUR allies NC. If Cameron & co seriously wanted to defeat ISIS & make the world a safer place why do they suck up to Saudi? Oil?? The arms industry is big money. Wars = profit


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## Satori (Apr 7, 2013)

noushka05 said:


> I had never heard of the Chagossians Zaros so after reading this I went off to find out more & OMG am I horrified. I cannot tell you how ashamed I feel. How anyone can be proud of this country or be a royalist is beyond me. We, the USA - the G7 are the biggest terrorists on the planet - is there any wonder OUR actions drive fundamentalism?
> 
> Pilger is a man of integrity & this is what he says about our media - *John Pilger: How the media promotes the lies leading us to catastrophic war*
> *The world faces the prospect of major war, but the truth is turned upside down and inside out by journalists, including those who promoted the lies that led to the Iraq bloodbath .http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/new...motes-the-lies-leading-us-to-catastrophic-war*
> ...


So the queen has wealth of 17 trillion pounds! What complete and utter bullsh1t. Just listen to yourself. How can you swallow this crap?

Her wealth is actually 340 million. You are out by a factor of fifty thousand.


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## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Satori said:


> So the queen has wealth of 17 trillion pounds! What complete and utter bullsh1t. Just listen to yourself. How can you swallow this crap?
> 
> Her wealth is actually 340 million. You are out by a factor of fifty thousand.


*I think it's the new world order quoted that worth 17 trillion not the queen.. Might be wrong though.*


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Satori said:


> So the queen has wealth of 17 trillion pounds! What complete and utter bullsh1t. Just listen to yourself. How can you swallow this crap?
> 
> Her wealth is actually 340 million. You are out by a factor of fifty thousand.


I've know idea whether its an accurate figure or not - the 'new world order' is kind of an 'in thing' between Zaros & I, the meme was aimed at him. All that said, I know the Queen is extremely rich & I know that whilst the poorest & ordinary workers suffer under Osbornes ideological austerity cuts the Queen received yet another massive pay rise this year!. I do wonder how she sleeps at night with more wealth than she could ever spend while thousands upon thousands of her subjects struggle to get by. Thousands of them sleeping rough right under her nose?? Does she ever think of her subjects who 'use' to live on the Chagos islands I wonder?


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## Zaros (Nov 24, 2009)

noushka05 said:


> I had never heard of the Chagossians Zaros so after reading this I went off to find out more & OMG am I horrified. I cannot tell you how ashamed I feel. How anyone can be proud of this country or be a royalist is beyond me. We, the USA - the G7 are the biggest terrorists on the planet - is there any wonder OUR actions drive fundamentalism?
> 
> Pilger is a man of integrity & this is what he says about our media - *John Pilger: How the media promotes the lies leading us to catastrophic war*
> *The world faces the prospect of major war, but the truth is turned upside down and inside out by journalists, including those who promoted the lies that led to the Iraq bloodbath .http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/new...motes-the-lies-leading-us-to-catastrophic-war*
> ...


I'm well aware of the NWO, Noush', its organisers, its financiers and the future threat it and they pose to everyone else on this planet. With the relentless advance of Globalisation we are little more than tomorrow's collateral damage.
War, Terrorism and Deception are instruments the elite employ to achieve their goal.
Food for thought;
During the 1st world war 10% of all casualties were civilians and that figure understandably increased to 50% during the 2nd world war as a direct consequence of the technology and tactics used and applied during that time period.
The Vietnam war, the longest bombing campaign in the history of any war,70% of casualties were civilians. This was to become the accepted design for all future conflicts. The Iraq invasion and conflict targeted 90% of civilian life. The invasion widowed 740,000 women and made 4.5 million people homeless.
This is not war, this is terrorism and murder on an industrial scale.

Incidentally, the 4th Geneva convention (1949) states; The killing of civilians and wilfully causing great suffering is a war crime.

But no one appears to be reading anymore. 



Satori said:


> So the queen has wealth of 17 trillion pounds! What complete and utter bullsh1t. Just listen to yourself. How can you swallow this crap?
> 
> Her wealth is actually 340 million. You are out by a factor of fifty thousand.





JANICE199 said:


> *I think it's the new world order quoted that worth 17 trillion not the queen.. Might be wrong though.*


Financial experts had actually calculated that the Queen's actual wealth, owing to ownership of 1/6th of all the land on this planet, equates to a figure of around 22 trillion.

Her merchant banker's fortune by comparison, the Rothschild's, (the people ultimately responsible for all the planet's ills) is thought to be somewhere in the region of 100 trillion.


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## StormyThai (Sep 11, 2013)

I didn't write this but I may as well have as it says it all for me...I know this thread is about Paris but it has morphed into a bit of everything lol

*You're 29 years old with a wife, two children and a job. You have enough money, and can afford a few nice things, and you live in a small house in the city.
Suddenly the political situation in your country changes and a few months later soldiers are gathered in front of your house. And in front of your neighbours' houses.
They say that if you don't fight for them, they will shoot you.
Your neighbour refuses.
One shot. That's it.

You overhear one of the soldiers telling your wife to spread her legs.
Somehow you get rid of the soldiers and spend the night deep in thought.
Suddenly you hear an explosion. Your house no longer has a living room.
You run outside and see that the whole street is destroyed.
Nothing is left standing.

You take your family back into the house, and then you run to your parents' house.
It is no longer there. Nor are your parents.
You look around and find an arm with your Mother's ring on its finger. You can't find any other sign of your parents.

~~~~~

"But asylum seekers have so many luxury goods! Smartphones, and designer clothes!"

~~~~~

You immediately forget it. You rush home, and tell your wife to get the children dressed. You grab a small bag, because anything bigger will be impossible to carry for a long time, and in it you pack essentials. Only 2 pieces of clothing each can fit in the bag.
What do you take?
You will probably never see your home country again.
Not your family, not your neighbours, your workmates…
But how can you stay in contact?

You hastily throw your smartphone and the charger in the bag.
Along with the few clothes, some bread and your small daughters favourite teddy.

~~~~~

"They can easily afford to get away. They aren't poor!"

~~~~~

Because you could see the emergency coming, you have already scraped all your money together.
You managed to save some money because of your well paid job.
The kind people smuggler in the neighbourhood charges 5,000 euros per person.

You have 15,000 euros. With a bit of luck, you'll all be able to go. If not, you will have to let your wife go.
You love her and pray that you the smugglers will take you all.
By now you are totally wiped out and have nothing else. Just your family and the bag.
The journey to the border takes two weeks on foot.

You are hungry and for the last week have barely eaten. You are weak, as is your wife. But at least the children have enough.
They have cried for the whole 2 weeks.
Half the time you have to carry your younger daughter. She is only 21 months old.
A further 2 weeks and you arrive at the sea.

In the middle of the night you're loaded onto a ship with other refugees.
You are lucky: your whole family can travel.
The ship is so full that it threatens to capsize. You pray that you don't drown.
The people around you are crying and screaming.
A few small children have died of thirst.
The smugglers throw them overboard.
Your wife sits, vacantly, in a corner. She hasn't had anything to drink for 2 days.
When the coast is in sight, you are loaded onto small boats.
Your wife and the younger child are on one, you and your older child are on another.

You are warned to stay silent so that nobody knows you're there.
Your older daughter understands.
But your younger one in the other boat doesn't. She doesn't stop crying.
The other refugees are getting nervous. They demand that your wife keeps the child quiet.
She doesn't manage it.
One of the men grabs your daughter, rips her away from your wife and throws her overboard.
You jump in after her, but you can't find her again.
Never again.
In 3 months she would have turned 2 years old.
Isn't that enough for you? They still have it too good here and have everything handed to them on a plate?

You don't know how you, your wife and your older daughter manage to get to the country that takes you in.
It's as though everything is all foggy. Your wife hasn't spoken a word since your daughter died. 
Your older daughter hasn't let go of her sister's teddy and is totally apathetic.
But you have to keep going. You are just about to arrive at the emergency accommodation.
It is 10pm. A man whose language you don't understand takes you to a hall with camp beds. There are 500 beds all very close together.

In the hall it's stuffy and loud.
You try to get your bearings. To understand what the people there want from you.
But in reality you can barely stand up. You nearly wish that they had shot you.
Instead you unpack your meagre possessions:
Two items of clothing each and your smartphone.
Then you spend your first night in a safe country.
The next morning you're given some clothes.
Among the donated clothes are even branded 'label' clothes. And a toy for your daughter.
You are given 140 euros. For the whole month.

~~~~~

"They're safe here. Therefore they should be happy!"

~~~~~

Outside in the yard, dressed in your new clothes, you hold your smartphone high in the air and hope to have some reception.
You need to know if anyone from your city is still alive.
Then a 'concerned citizen' comes by and abuses you.
You don't know why. You don't understand "Go back to your own country!"
You understand some things like "smartphone" and "handed everything on a plate."
Somebody translates it for you.

~~~~~

And now tell me how you feel and what you own?
The answer to both parts of that is "Nothing."*


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## Colliebarmy (Sep 27, 2012)

Some news, ISIL have executed a Chinese national, China isnt happy (thats the China with more men under arms than the rest of the world combined) 

China, Russia, USA, UK................................ if I was a bookie id suspend all betting now


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## DogLover1981 (Mar 28, 2009)

I was just watching a documentary about ISIL/ISIS on PBS. The training of 12 or 16 years olds to be suicide bombers is beyond disgusting. It's religion for these terrorists in that they believe the "infidels" are bad/evil. At least, that's how they justify their behavior.


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## negative creep (Dec 20, 2012)

noushka05 said:


> So refugees who have travelled hundreds of perilous miles fleeing their war torn country aren't genuine? Wow


Sorry but that wasn't what I said at all. In my post I said that by taking people from camps we know there are genuine, not that everyone who isn't in one is an economic migrant. And yes, I agree the Saudi regime is despotic, but it still doesn't answer the question of how we're going to stop ISIS.


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## Honeys mum (Jan 11, 2013)

The puppy who will grow to be France's next Diesel: Little dog donated by Russia as a sign of solidarity will be trained to replace hero canine killed by suicide jihadi | Daily Mail Online


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## noushka05 (Mar 28, 2008)

Zaros said:


> I'm well aware of the NWO, Noush', its organisers, its financiers and the future threat it and they pose to everyone else on this planet. With the relentless advance of Globalisation we are little more than tomorrow's collateral damage.
> War, Terrorism and Deception are instruments the elite employ to achieve their goal.
> Food for thought;
> During the 1st world war 10% of all casualties were civilians and that figure understandably increased to 50% during the 2nd world war as a direct consequence of the technology and tactics used and applied during that time period.
> ...


Gosh you are bang on. And the mainstream media is their tool. Spreading fear & propaganda to brainwash the masses into supporting continuous wars. Unless people wake up to the warmongers the death & destruction will never cease until everything is destroyed .

I didn't know the Queens actual wealth- so thank you for this Zaros - she really is a contemptible old witch. The Rothschilds are psychopathic monsters, these are the people I fear most.












negative creep said:


> Sorry but that wasn't what I said at all. In my post I said that by taking people from camps we know there are genuine, not that everyone who isn't in one is an economic migrant. And yes, I agree the Saudi regime is despotic, but it still doesn't answer the question of how we're going to stop ISIS.


I know what you were saying. What do you suggest we do with the REFUGEES in the 'Calais jungle'? Leave these victims of war to rot in concentration camp like conditions?

I'll tell you a good idea to stop ISIS. For a start, hows about the tories STOP arming that 'despotic regime' & sanction them instead of grovelling before them?

Did you see Mehdi Hasan on Question Time? Well worth watching NC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06qc0mj/question-time-19112015

A taster -


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