# Ferret integration Help!



## Mike H (May 10, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I've got a bit of a problem and really need some good solid advice on it.

I've had a young male (castrated) for a while. We decided to get some playmates for him and they came in the form of two other castrated males.

The new two were from rescue and have been in a cage with 3 other ferrets for a week but were together before then.

The Rspca person looking after them suggested they be introduced by letting my one out (his name is Crumpet) and then let the other pair into the room and let them meet.

This went fine at first. Lots of sniffing etc. Crumpet had no issue with the albino one. They were fine. However, the other one - polecat reacted differently and started to attack Crumpet. Grabbing his neck and dragging him etc.

I did alot of googleing, very rapid googleing that is! I found sites mention various types of fighting and it looked like dominance fighting. The advice was to let them do it.

So I did.

Shortly afterwards it seemed to escalate to exclusionary level. The polecat was dragging Crumpet around and doing barrel rolls, bits of fur everywhere. Crumpet just pretty much lays there and takes it. Hardly fighting back.

Anyhow, they all go to sleep, including a dejected looking Crumpet. All slept for 3 to 4 hours in the same bed. 

Once they woke up I let them out again. They seemed fine but then it kicked off again. No provocation, just outright attack. Whats worse was the albino would join in, biting Crumpet while the other mauls him. Crumpet would bite back after a while and flee, only to be chased and attacked again.

The whole thing exhausted him, he was barely able to walk after the latest attack. hes got bite marks and scratches on his neck and head. Hes been asleep since the last attack.

Because of his condition I've blocked off the two teirs of the cage with Crumpet in the top and the new pair in the bottom.

How do I go about resolving this? I don't understand why the polecat is happy to have crumpet sleep on his head for hours but then feels the need to visciously attack in this way. Id have thought Crumpets apparent submission would have been enough by now but the fights only stop when he breaks free and runs and hides. But ita hard to really call it a fight.

So unexpected too given Crumpet is three times the size of the other two. He gets on fine with the other until the polecat strikes!


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## Mike H (May 10, 2015)

Update 1:

No replies so far so I've been trying a few things out.

First of all I got him out with the albino. This soon resulted in the white one attacking. Later, yesterday evening, I got out polecat and Crumpet. As expected, polecat started getting mean. When he bit too hard I scruffed him. This happened a few times, but eventually he started being nice and stopped biting.

I put them in Crumpets top cage together. They ate and sniffed each other a bit and there were no issues, so I opened up the connecting ramp between the two cages. They all ended up down the bottom in one hammock for an hour or so.

Occasionally they'd pull Crumpet a bit, and then clean him, then dig at him and clean him. Very confusing.

Albino got up and got dragged around the cage a bit by polecat. First time I'd seen that happen.

Anyhow, I let them all out in the evening to play, the behaviour is different now - not like the vicious attacks from before. But now I have a new problem!

Crumpet won't play. They are clearly trying to play with him now, but he just acts like he's scared, run off - inevitably gets chased and pounced on in an attempt to play. He just lies there, doesn't respond - plays dead unless they nip him where he doesn't like it.

He will lightly play fight with me, no nipping, and he will fight with his rope but he won't chase his ball. He just sits around being all depressed.

He either goes to a corner, between my feet or on my lap. Shuts his eyes and goes to sleep, looking up occasionally to see what the other two are doing. They don't try to play with him when he's on me, but if he is investigating them they start trying to play and he gets all cowardly and runs.

I'm not sure if he's scared or it's because he's sore from being attacked on Sunday, or generally depressed about it all. It's clear that they've accepted him and are simply trying to play now.

I don't know how to help him with it, if I can, or if he just needs time


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## RedSky88 (May 14, 2015)

Hi, sorry to hear you haven't have the easy introduction you were expecting.
Usually it does take ferrets a while to settle with new friends, and Crumpet is scared, tired and anxious around these new boys, who have come into his space and taken over as top ferret. He's a little put out, but he will settle. It might take days or even weeks, but if they are now accepting each other he will fall into the group and return to his old self given time.
Give him some extra cuddles and love, and maybe spend a bit of time with him one on one until he perks back up. 

A couple of thing you can do, that I swear by. 
1st is sudocrem, the stuff you find in most supermarkets for nappy rash and similar. Totally ferret safe, although you don't want them eating loads of it. Most ferrets hate the taste and it's great for any bruising or wounds. It's great for putting a thin layer on the back of necks to stop other ferrets scruffing them and it helps wounds heal quickly.
2nd is Rescue Remedy. It's a bach's flower essence (not essential oil which is super dangerous), it can be massaged into paws and ears or added to water (or food). Ideally use the pet version, as the human version has a small amount of alcohol in. It helps take the edge of the stress of new things, I use it for any change, such as when I brought my ferrets home, vet trips, doing something new. It will either help or won't do anything, but IMO totally worth the money and usually does help them settle. Might be just what Crumpet needs to perk him back up, and can take the edge of the other two settling into a new home.

As for ferret 'fights' I've gone by the 'good old' no pee, no poop, no blood, no foul. Basically if the ferrets aren't inflicting wounds on each other, or emptying any body waste/liquids (including scent glands) then it might be best to leave them to it. Sounds like your new ferret was getting a little OTT leaving marks so it was good that you stepped in. I personally don't like to scruff my ferrets, I train them to accept it but in a gentle, non threatening way. For any 'naughty' behaviour I put them in 'the sin bin'. A small empty cat carrier, where they spend 2 minutes before being let back out. They soon learn after a few repetitions that biting or whatever leads to being locked away. Sort of like a toddler and the naughty step.


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## Mike H (May 10, 2015)

Hi RedSky88,

Thanks for your message, lots of sound advice there. I'll look into the Rescue Remedy. I was initially concerned about using sudocreme as some people said it's OK to use, others said otherwise. So much opinion on the internet these days that facts are hard to find!

Rocky, the polecat - has calmed down alot. He's learned not to bite me he also lets go if nipping Crumpet in play and I look like I'm about to intervene. He's not being nearly as rough anymore.

Not a fan of scruffing for this issue, I'll likely be using the pet carrier in future. Do you use scruffing for ferret on human nipping or do you solely use your carrier? The albino has a moderate biting problem that I'm working on with him now (only started tackling it last night as the issue of them getting along was more important). There's no doubt scruffing works with this even though they can nip in retaliation but I'd obviously prefer a softer approach if it's reliable and effective.

*As a second update:
*
Albino and Crumpet have been enjoying games of tunnel chicken. I'm not having much luck getting Crumpet to play with his ball (previous favourite toy - its a cat ball with a bell ball inside it - makes a lot or racket when you roll it). As you say, he will probably get back to himself over time.

After spending 20 minutes trying to get him to play last night he did randomly start war dancing with me. He's not really done this with the other ferrets yet but it's the first war dance this week. He still refused to have any further fun.

I'm happy with him playing with the other two now, even if he does just watch them half the time. There was no running between my legs or hiding on me yesterday. Even a little bit of dooking from him yesterday as well when playing with albino.

I put a little bitter apple behind his ears and neck last night. They tried to nip him in play and quickly found out how awful it tastes. Their general behaviour yesterday was a significant improvement and so I was happier lowering the bridging ramp between the cages for the night.

This morning I checked Crumpet over, no new injuries and his scabbed up wounds from Sunday are healing up nicely with most of the scabs coming off. He's been eating well and sleeping alot so his recovery doesn't surprise me but I'm happy to see no damaged fur or cuts.

I've left them together with full access to the cage for the day. I'm hopeful that there will be no serious disagreements during the day while I'm at work - and hopefully playtime this evening will continue to be positive.

They will be having a bath together this weekend - that will be interesting!

Overall it's going well.

Thank so much again for the advice. While I've made progress figuring it out myself this week - trial and error, it's a massive boost to know that nothing unusual is happening and to have some good advice from someone experienced on how to help with the problem.

At the end of the day I can only deal with the external factors, with the social and mental side it is as much to do with them as it is me!


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## RedSky88 (May 14, 2015)

Hey, glad to hear things are progressing well. Some ferrets take months and months to be accepted. So this has moved quickly and they are all doing so well. I'm relieved to hear that Crumpet has done a war dance for you, shows he is returning to normal.

If you aren't sure about Sudocrem then yeah, don't use it. On the other forum I'm on all the mods advise against the bitter sprays. Something about it easily transfers, can cause irritation especially if they get it in their eyes. Be extra careful while bathing them this weekend.
Once you are more confident and they are more settled with one another it might be worth putting something nicer of his neck, such as salmon oil, to get them to start grooming each other. You don't want them to think he tastes really nasty and bitter for too long as they could start to avoid him for play times and grooming.

I'm sure you know all about the downside of bathing ferrets, if not then it's worth a quick google. I'm going to go with you know what your doing, and will take all the negatives into consideration. If you would like to me explain then ask, but I don't want to nag 

I'm not massively experienced, we actually only got our trio of ferrets a few days before Christmas. They are from a rescue that I have been in touch with for over a year previously and I have been looking into ferrets for about 10 years but never been in a place in our lives that they would fit. Once I knew we were moving and have the house picked out, we talked about ferrets and I joined a few forums and spent over a year thoroughly reading and researching. DIfferent countries as always have different husbandry advise. In the UK scruffing is split between yes and no, in the US most lean towards yes, but in countries with stricter animal care laws it's a no. I try to follow their rules when I can. 
I teach my ferrets to accept scruffing like I did with my dog, it's never a punishment and they get a treat (usually salmon oil) during to begin with then after once they know it's coming. Always 4 feet on the ground and always a firm but gentle hold. I want them to accept it and be okay about it, so if they panic or struggle I stop, give them a pet and a fuss and try again a bit more gentle. There are steps to take, but again my post is long enough.

The 'sin bin' is used by lots of breeders/rescues/people in the know as a great way to stop ferrets biting. Scruffing like you said can result in a retaliation bite. It also makes ferrets who are fear biters worse, as they become more fearful.
There is some great advise on how to use it the right way, but basically it's using it for a bit that isn't allowed. If you don't want teeth on hands at all, then any bite 'punished', if you allow gentle play biting and during play they bite too hard then I just walk away. They want to play and removing yourself is usually enough for them to eventually learn they need to be gentle all the time. You need to be 100% consistent, as does everyone else around them. It does take time, but so does every training method, even if they spend more time in the carrier than out to begin with, or get worse, they will improve if you are consistent.


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## SarahBugz (Mar 14, 2011)

Following this thread.

Wish me luck... I'm off to a ferret rescue on Sunday to see if we can find a little match for my little girl


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## Mike H (May 10, 2015)

Good luck Sarah. Should be fun 

*Update 3:*

Well, the bath this weekend came a little early and ended up happening last night. I'm aware of the pros and cons of bathing them. They all woke up yesterday to poop. In Crumpets rush to the box he managed to completely plaster himself in Flump's fresh poop! Brilliant.

Hopefully that's the last bath for a long time! I only intend to bath them in scenarios like this - where they've basically soiled themselves, but had scheduled it to be this weekend as some said it can help with this scenario too.

The wife was out so I had to bath all 3 of them by myself - the hard part was getting them out and dry as I can't let them loose upstairs as they end up covered in dust (we bought the house a couple months ago and we're still working on a few things in the bathroom/bedrooms). Plus they could fall to their demise from the stairs. They fall off the sofa often enough.

The bath is fairly big, gave Crump a good rinse and checked him over. He's healing nicely. A few hours after they dried I used a much smaller amount of the spray. I don't think I'll need to use it any more so will start wiping it off bit by bit over the next few days.

Rocky has a new obsession - the sofabed. He gets in it and can't get out! There's no danger here as it won't be operated with them out but getting him out of it is a nightmare! Crumpet got in too! Because he's do big the only way to extract him was with his scruff. I may have to see if there's a way I can make an access hole so they can get out themselves. I can't move it out of the playroom and it's impossible to stop them getting inside it from the top.

My situation is similar to yours RedSky, I've been researching them for years but have always rented places that won't allow pets. I came to the conclusion that some experience - no matter how small - would be the best way of tackling this issue (hence the thread). I've gathered so much info over the years but alot of it contradicts other bits of info I've found and at the end of the day - every problem is different.

Crumpet is alot happier now - but he's developed a habit of hissing. But not as you might expect. He's not hissing at anyone, and he's not bearing teeth. He dooks now and again but he just randomly hisses as he's wandering around. Bizzar. Could be letting stress out, or it could be a vocal quirk he's picked up. He has never really made any noises, just the odd bit of dooking before when really excited along with growling when hes desperate to "clean" my ear - not much else.

Plus he's obsessed with cleaning Flump. He will follow Flump around the living room for the whole of playtime trying to clean him. Flump occasionally flips around and war dances. Crumpet just stands there clueless.

It's official, always suspected - but now confirmed. Crumpet has OCD.

The ball did get chased yesterday - once. And they are all in one cage still - sleeping in a big pile.


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## Mike H (May 10, 2015)

Fuzzy dry time




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Mike H


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May 15, 2015











  








Fuzzy bath time




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Mike H


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May 15, 2015


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## SarahBugz (Mar 14, 2011)

Glad to hear things are improving! They all look gorgeous!!

I finally managed to persuade my partner to allow me to have a Ferret. I fell in Love with Frankie after spending a day helping out at a ferret rescue... oops! The story was she lost her mate a while ago and has apparently been anti-ferret since then having nearly died of depression. One of the volunteers I've been speaking too over facebook had said its worth trying to find her a mate again. She's been great with my kitten and my older cat so we'll see how it goes. I absolutely adore her but I just feel so bad about her being on her own while I'm at work. She's really coming out of her shell and is turning really cheeky. She's definitely a handful!! I'm still having problems with the nipping but I'm going to keep persevering with the 'Sin bin' She just gets too excited. I've stopped using my hands in play and use the dangly cat toys. Luckily her nipping doesn't draw blood or leave much of a mark. she's mainly obsessed with feet and ankles now. I think it's become a game because people squeal and jump. I've started wearing ugg boots while cleaning her shed out etc... and she'll try nipping but I completely ignore her and she soon stops and gets bored and moves on to the next exciting thing.


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## Mike H (May 10, 2015)

Thanks Sarah.

I'd always planned on getting at least 3 with the main reason again one is that there are times I can let them out to play but can't play with them myself. Plus I don't like the idea of leaving one of them marooned alone twice a day fro 8 hours at a time.

Chances are we'll have 3 for a while. The most I'm allowed is 4 according to the wife! They have a huge multi level cage so space isn't a problem.

I'd certainly recommend getting 1 or 2 more.

*Update 4*:

All friends now. Crumpet still gets dragged around by his head on a regular basis but he goes back for more every time. Clearly a sadist.

For no apparent reason they've taken to dragging a blanket into the corner litter box when it's clean and using it as a bed. Now they won't use it - they just go in the rectangle one at the bottom of the cage instead. When that's full they just go in a corner! Hopefully that's just a phase - they'll get out of. They had no issue using it before - unless the existence of 2 boxes is confusing them?

We've had alot more war dances from Crumpet now and he's war danced with the others once or twice (between the voluntary beatings he prescribes for himself). Lots of games of tunnel chicken get played.

Crumpet has put weight on. I'm hoping he'll trim down now he's feeling happier and is getting back to normal activity levels. For the last two weeks hes just been eating, sleeping and feeling sorry for himself so I'm not surprised he's turned into a fatso. His weight is exaggerating his already high level of clumsiness! He can barely walk 5 feet without his bum sliding out from under him. Chubby ferret + tile floor is an amusing combination.

Thanks again for the advice RedSky. I'm sure they'll remain to be friends now


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## SarahBugz (Mar 14, 2011)

Well my trip to the rescue centre did not go well at all!!! I definetly think she's destined to be a lone ferret. Lots of poop and fur flying etc.... not good!


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## Mike H (May 10, 2015)

Hi Sarah,

Oh dear. Sorry to hear that, hope she's OK now.

If you're still thinking of getting more you still have options but if she seems happy being alone and you're happy with just one then there's no need to push it. Crumpets problems are not nearly that bad, even though he still gets stressed out during play time if Rocky keeps dragging him about. There's no obvious fear/hatred of other ferrets.

One option if you still want more is to get a second cage for the new ones and place it so they can see and smell each other. I'd say get 2+ because if things go south and she doesn't come around then you'd have two loners! A few weeks of that, bedding swaps and unforced playtime in a room might make some difference to her.

I've also read of a similar situation where one ferrets mate died and the other get very depressed and hated others. They solved it by getting her a young kit to look after. Not a rescue option I know but she may be happier in that situation? I'd say any kind of group scenario isn't going to work out.


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## SarahBugz (Mar 14, 2011)

The rescue centre did offer to let me try her with one of the kits when they are old enough. They had a couple of pregnant Jills come in. It would be in about 7 weeks time though. I'm not sure I can subject a kit to Frankie's fighting. They said she wasn't being nasty she was just soooooooooo scared of the other ferrets. It looked pretty bad from my point of view :-( I think I might just keep her as a loan ferret. I hated how stressed she got.


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## Mike H (May 10, 2015)

She might not react as badly to a kit - particularly a young one. It's certainly hard to watch, I know that and I've not seen it get to that level yet. I'd say it's worth a go, that way you'll know for sure that you've tried your options.

I wish Crumpet would bite the new ferrets back - they'd probably back off him then. He's absolutely useless at fighting back and never bites them!


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