# Some more advice please



## ToejaMz0r (Mar 24, 2011)

Hey people, thanks for the advice in March - helpful!

Just to recap: Now 10month old lab (not retriever, yellow lab) - the short haired type - female, not spayed with no intention of breeding though. I like to keep dogs natural shes like a daughter afterall!
Baby: Now 5months old, today!

I've changed her food off the worker food though she still has the same amount of dry-wet combination, shes now on pets at home, alot of people have given me good reviews on it so I'd like to know what you guys think!

Pets At Home Chicken and Veg Moist Meaty Chunks 2.5kg and 15kg | Pets at Home

Thats what she is having at the moment, at least I think its that one.. may well be the beef version I cant actually remember now, the bags downstairs.. I'll update if its entirely neccesary.

Anyway..

*Problem: *She's still going mental at me which isnt very helpful round the baby. I do have a muzzel and she gets that when she misbehaves, so she knows thats what happens when she does something wrong (along with a no, but found 'no' only made her bark at me telling me no back). Its quite difficult to stop her from being hyperactive without touching her or holding her still. Once I get her still she'll stay there until I say (though I have to reaffirm it sometimes if she moves) the muzzel does work so is it just a case of perserverence?

I cant really let her just bounce around and ignore her when the baby is there, shes a very big labrador and at 5months he wouldnt stand a chance if she landed on him so I have to physically intervene.

She still goes to bed (crated) when told to and actually loves being in there, often sleeps in there or 'hangs out' in there. She gets ALOT of free roaming time now, alot more than before as she's not so mental.

So I'm not sure the hyperactive thing is going to be a forever problem but would be nice to know how best to manage it!

Lastly, I don't know if shes just still too young but I completely re-arranged my office so that she wasnt going to be knocking into any wires from the computer.. everything is flush with the wall and alot more spacious.. I closed all the doors upstairs so she only had access to the office (where I am) and downstairs (no one else was in) but she was so so excited she was investigating everywhere.. which, shes not been up here in a while I expected.. so I left her to it as I'm trying to gauge when she's ready to be uncrated overnight/when we're not in.

Now before you read the next bit, bare in mind she'd been out the back for a good hour+.

Problem: After being upstairs with me for about 10-15minutes she disappeared upstairs a few times, I called her.. she came running.. I went to check what she'd been into (its messy upstairs but I left it to see if she'd get into things she knows arnt hers, I think she knows what her toys are and what arnt that and it was a good excuse to be lazy!) and she'd left everything alone!! Everytime I went upstairs I made her wait at the bottom until I was done but she could see me, I have two floors above ground and the office is the first floor up. I was mainly checking to see if she'd wee'd.. she hadnt! Result! So I sat down, passed a toy to her and left her to it.. about 5-10minutes later she'd been downstairs a little and I thought I better check on her.. dont want anything broken, in the kitchen.. she'd taken a dump.

She hasnt done this in months! Obviously the only difference of the day is letting her upstairs. I can only think her panting and being excitable was her telling me she wanted to go out.. but she'd been out already so I just thought she was happy to be upstairs.

Is there anyway I can train her to let me know when she wants to go out for toilet reasons rather than to go out for the sake of it? Any advice on this?

I'm thinking it was just a case of missing the signals and her being too excited. If I remember right, when a puppy is excited you really should let them outside as they can't hold it still so well.. kinda thought at 10months I was past this bit of having to let her out after every excitable thing!

Id really like to be able to have her upstairs as this is where I spend alot of my time, its not a problem when the gf is in but she'll be off maternity in july I think so it would be nice to have the dog upstairs with me!

On a positive note, I've now got her jumping over the small fences when we walk.. no more going under for her! Good girl!


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## keirk (Aug 9, 2010)

To be honest the food looks rubbish, but there are no ingredients on the website.

How much and what sort of exercise / training do you do with her?

The holding down and use of muzzle is doing nothing to teach her to calm herself. Take a look at this site : Crazy Canines | Pet Central's Pawsitive Dawgs Blog! there are loads of positive ways ro encourage your dog to calm down without force.

HTH


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## ToejaMz0r (Mar 24, 2011)

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9371/img0526om.jpg

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/7646/img0524v.jpg

PaH Nutrition
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4733/img0528o.jpg

Thats the food, I was totally wrong heh - it looks like the website doesnt have that one on there, even though its less than a week old.. dont know what thats about.

Looking at the ingrediants on pedigree complete:

Pedigree Complete Adult Beef And Vegetable 3Kg - Groceries - Tesco Groceries



> Quality Ingredients:,Cereals (min. 4% Wheat, min. 4% Maize) ,Meat and Animal Derivatives (min. 4% Beef in the Brown Kibble) ,Oils and Fats (min. 0.2% Fish Oil) ,Derivatives of Vegetable Origin (min. 3% Dried Beet Pulp) ,Vegetable Protein Extracts ,Minerals ,Vegetables (min. 4% Carrots in the Orange Kibble, min. 4% Beans in the Green Kibble)


Pets at Home looks far far better.. unless I'm just not reading the information correctly but isnt that 4% vs 15% min on the meat and then 11% vs 8% on veg respectively? (pedigree vs PaH)

With the muzzel it works very effectively to the point that if I bring it out she calms down alot but if shes in a super hyperactive mood it doesnt last long.

I physically have to grab her sometimes because of the baby, I cant not because shes all over the place and its quicker to grab Lois than it is the baby especially as she starts her episode at me. I know touching is the worst thing you can do but id rather things take longer to train than have a clawed face or worse a dead baby!

I'll have a look at that site thank you, the most frustrating thing is.. shes more often than not.. placid its just these random bursts, she gets walked 4/7 days a week now minimum (every other day basically) and days inbetween, sometimes not possible.. babies hamper things :/

Oh and yes I know my thumb is black/dirty under the nail.. I just got in from work and I really need some gloves :/


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I notice you say she has a lot of free roaming now in your first post? What do you mean by free roaming, just being let out in the garden. Dogs left to their own devices in gardens is not enough, there is nothing to mentally stimulate them. Also I notice in your 2nd post you say she has a walk every other day? This is not enough for a Young Lab. Lack of exercise, left to their own devices "roaming" and/or being in a garden is not enough. All that excess energy has to go somwhere, and if its not chanelled properly and exercise is not given adequately then it will manifest in hyper unwanted behaviour. At this age they need adequate exercise and ongoing training. If they are not taught basic obdience, like sit down,stay, recall etc and its not re-inforced with training sessions (Even 2/3 10/15 minute ones is better than nothing a day mixed with another 10/15 minutes of interactive play with you like chasing a ball or a game with a tug toy.) they will get hyper and/or destructive out of boredom. They also nee activities like chewing, Chews will help, or chew toys or things like Kongs, solid rubber with a hollow centre you stuff with wet and dry food packed tight to add interest coat the inside with peanut butter or cheese spread and you can add bits of chicken, you can freeze it to make it last longer. Treat Balls are good, you fill them with Kibble and set to distribute pieces here and there as they play with it.

Im willing to bet if she has more daily proper exercise, more constructive interactive play,
A couple of short training sessions with the basic commands, and a few activies like chews toys and Kongs or treatballs, the hyper active fits will stop or at lease cease drastically. Training will give you more control in the end too. A Bored under exercised under stimulated dog does and will be a pain in the rear.


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## keirk (Aug 9, 2010)

Jack is fed Acana - which by comparison - is 60% fish and 0% grain. But its probably 3 times the price of the [email protected] food.



ToejaMz0r said:


> I'll have a look at that site thank you, the most frustrating thing is.. shes more often than not.. placid its just these random bursts, she gets walked 4/7 days a week now minimum (every other day basically) and days inbetween, sometimes not possible.. babies hamper things :/


This is the root cause of your problem - a young lab needs stimulation. Either physical (walking) or mental (training / games). 4 walks a week is not enough.

HTH


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## ToejaMz0r (Mar 24, 2011)

You're both skim reading, I said a min of 4/7 that doesnt mean its the max - theres another thread that details her walks here.. they're quite long, was told they were too long in that thread! If I cant get her out one day for one reason she gets out 100% the next day is what I mean.. but its 

She gets alot of training, she knows:

Sit
Stay
Wait 
Roll over
Play dead
Paw
Bow
Out (where the backgarden is)
Up (jumps up)
Down (gets down off anything including going down any stairs we have)
Leave it/him/her/that)
Bed (crate, never used as punishment as I want her to like there!)
Who is it (to check the front door)
Where is it (name of toy)

When I put fresh food/water down (water everytime its empty or with new food or if it looks untouched/stale.. so much time changing water but I wouldnt drink it so she shouldnt!) she knows to wait before she jumps at it.

She has a kong and nylabones (Changed often as she destroys them but I cant find anything else she likes to chew on!) - she knows the difference between her stuff and my stuff...

It really is just a random hyperactivity that I'm finding hard to stop.. no amount of commands or anything I've tried works.. if you ignore her she persists and you get hurt so thats why I have to intervene when the baby is around.


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## Sarah41 (Oct 5, 2010)

I have a 10 month old vizsla who has had periods of activity similar to what you described. I am taking her to a gundog trainer and by working on her obedience/steadiness she has become generally a calmer a dog. I took her to puupy classes so she knew all the very basic commands but I have just stepped it up a bit and helping her develop according to her breed type. It has been very enlightening and as I said earlier, her calmness/behaviour is much better.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

ToejaMz0r said:


> You're both skim reading, I said a min of 4/7 that doesnt mean its the max - theres another thread that details her walks here.. they're quite long, was told they were too long in that thread! If I cant get her out one day for one reason she gets out 100% the next day is what I mean.. but its
> 
> She gets alot of training, she knows:
> 
> ...


I know that you have a baby and are busy but you have to get her out every day at least once IMO to calm her. If you can get a good, solid routine it may solve a lot. I have found that my pup absolutely thrives on routine and his behaviour will become a little more unruly when that routine is disrupted.


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## keirk (Aug 9, 2010)

ToejaMz0r said:


> It really is just a random hyperactivity that I'm finding hard to stop.. no amount of commands or anything I've tried works.. if you ignore her she persists and you get hurt so thats why I have to intervene when the baby is around.


Exercise her for 40 mins twice a day for the next two weeks and I bet you a quid you won't see any 'hyperactivity'.


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## ToejaMz0r (Mar 24, 2011)

I've decided to dedicate getting her out every single day now right after work without fail.

I took her out today, later than planned (it is the gfs birthday and I still took her out!) and I beasted her, I'm in aload of pain from yesterdays marathon at the gym and planned nothing but a walk but I gave her the run of her life today and was out with her for god knows how long.

She's been absolutely perfect until about an hour ago.. I was telling her to go away, she wanted to be touching.. I'd tell her to go away, shed come back instantly, shed already just been out.. and then she flipped jumping up on me and I ignored for at least 5minutes by this point she was nipping my hands and then pee'd on the carpet and jumped at me again. There is no way the ignoring trick would work with her. In the end I had to fully restrain her and put her outside to cool off, 10minutes later I brought her back in and she was perfect again.

When she was out before I watched her pee, alot.

I'm always always paranoid about her peeing in the house still or pooing, I dont think it shows and when she wanders into the kitchen I dont jump up and follow her anymore but its always on my mind.

So am I transferring that to her without thinking I am?
Maybe she has a bladder problem?

What would YOU guys do in this situation, how would you handle a dog that just flips out.

Heh, maybe she is bi-polar!?

So so so frustrating though because shes so nice sometimes but it seems if she doesnt get her way.. that is the problem!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

ToejaMz0r said:


> I've decided to dedicate getting her out every single day now right after work without fail.
> 
> I took her out today, later than planned (it is the gfs birthday and I still took her out!) and I beasted her, I'm in aload of pain from yesterdays marathon at the gym and planned nothing but a walk but I gave her the run of her life today and was out with her for god knows how long.
> 
> ...


How old is she and have you still got her on puppy of high protein food? when they are getting older and have finished all their rapid growth if still on too high powered food that can make them go hyper. Also food with additives and artificial colourings and sugars can make some dogs hyper. So might be worth looking at the food she is on.

If she is drinking more than normal and seems to be peeing a lot more often than normal that can be a sign she has a urinary tract infection, in which case she would need antibiotics to clear it up.

Has she had a season yet? if she is not been spayed and due or just had a season they can be prone to urinary tract infections around then.

sometimes they can get so hyper and over excited they can pee with excitement too, or maybe she was trying to tell you she needed to toilet, one of mine comes up and paws at me when she needs to go to the toilet.

They can get over excited or hyper though to the point where they cant switch off, so if ignorning her doesnt work, when you start to see her start to get over excited then just put her in another room to calm down for 10 mintest of so. It seems to have worked tonight so just do that everytime.


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## pearl Button (May 12, 2011)

If she is fed dried food she will drink more and pee more, do you soak it? restraining her will only end up with her running away from you as she will know what is coming, I would crate train her and then when she has these barmy minutes just pop her in her crate in a quiet area until she settles then let her out. I think if im right (its getting late) she is young 10mths? well I have a 6 mth, 10mths and a 13mth old as well as a 23mth old and barmy minutes are full on here I just send them to their crates till calm. I also still have the old pee/poo in the house no big deal they are young I vax. She will not behave like a calm older dog she is still a pup! sorry I hope this doesnt sound off but the fact is she is a pup. You say she will sit and down does that include sit and down stays if so try working her in a stay when she gets OTT if not try teaching them as I find the quickest way to overcome Ott pups is to work them for a few minutes. postive rewards will work faster than restraint and muzzle which will just teach her fear and worst case she will lash out when fearfull.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Labs are Labrador retrievers - thats the name of them, you get lab retrievers and golden retrievers - two different breeds.
Also please reconsider the spaying - Pyometra is becoming more and more common in female dogs these days I have a friend who is a VN who has seen loads of cases recently. And it can be deadly.

Haven't read all the replies, but, the rule of thumb for walking is 5 minutes per month of age - especially in breeds prone to HD, did her parents have hip and elbow scores? 
If you can't walk her then play hide the treat with her: 3 plastic cups and one treat - like the magic tricks - she has to use her nose to find it. Similarly hide treats around the house and garden - go find games are great. 

I must ask - is she from working lines or show or pet lines? Working lines need extra attention and I have a working lines Springer x Lab - and I'll tell you now, I couldn't handle him and a baby together, the dog takes up too much of my time because if I don't carry his training on - I will see dire consequences, much to the annoyance of my OH who wants children (give me a puppy any day!) If she is from show or pet lines, then simple games of find and retrieve as well as other stimulating games should keep her occupied. 

Pets at home food is rubbish. CSJ is possibly the best food you could have her on at the lower end of the price scale and Eukanuba at the higher end of the price scale. If you want an inbetween go for Autarky or Orijen. 

Another thing - either put baby gates up or do not allow her near your baby until she is older. Labs are good family pets, but only when brought up to be. You have to teach both parties - starting with the dog - to respect each other. And if you can't take the pup out because of the baby, take them both out - teach the dog whilst she's young to walk alongside the pram - this'll be easy if you need to get your baby off to sleep. 

If she is nipping, as labs are mouthy breeds - due to the work they do... rub some frozen butter on your skin and teach her skin is for licking - only do this a couple of times a day for short 2 minute bursts - otherwise you'll have an obsessive licker, on the other hand when she nips - give her a tug or chew toy. 

I can't appreciate what it's like to have a baby and a puppy at the same time, but I can appreciate the extra attention the dog needs. A baby learns throughout it's whole life, a dog does too, but you really only have a few short weeks to set things off in the right direction with puppies. Something you may have missed doing. Weeks 8 - 16 are the most important in my opinion. This is when you have to expose your puppy to everything you can and get right on with how it is supposed to go about these things. 

Have you thought of clicker training? It is a brilliant way to teach your puppy when she is doing something correct. You can even teach her skills that service dogs have - for example, your child has dropped the stuffed toy - instead of your pup getting right in there and destroying it you could teach her how to give it back... if you need the baby food from the bottom cupboard - you can teach the pup to give it too you - of course these will take loads of time to train and you will need to give it lots of effort and patience, but 20 minutes of clicker training is like an hour of physical exercise...it's brilliant if you have 20 minutes but don't have time to take the dog out - like if the baby is sleeping, you could take the pup in the next room and just really work on things with the clicker...

Good luck with the puppy and the baby - you don't have to choose to take my advice but I would suggest you consider some of it..


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Kilo occasionally 'flips out' as you put it; the trigger is always something that frustrates him and he loses impulse control - jumps up at me again and again and mouths (something that is very rare these days so I know how excited he is). If it is while we are out walking, I stand on his lead so he can't jump, wait a few seconds calmly and silently until he is just calm enough to listen, then put him into a sit or a down. I make him work for a treat or toy then by either 'waiting', 'staying' which calms him and then doing a few more 'stands', 'downs', 'sits' etc. This always works.

If in the house I simply walk away from him and go the other side of a baby gate. Once he has sat, I go back in and usually do a short training session to occupy his mind.

I have learnt that any kind of response, hand movement etc just excites him more and more and his behaviour starts to become totally uncontrolled. I just move very slowly, quietly and deliberately and offer nothing in the way of communication until I can catch the moment that I know he will respond to me.

Maybe try a houseline indoors (apologies if you do already, I can't remember).


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

SLB said:


> Pets at home food is rubbish. CSJ is possibly the best food you could have her on at the lower end of the price scale and Eukanuba at the higher end of the price scale. If you want an inbetween go for Autarky or Orijen.


It is only my opinion but I have to say I disagree with Eukanuba being a good food, I would rate Orijen as far better. OP; there is loads about food in the health and nutrition section of PF if you are contemplating a change.


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Dogless said:


> It is only my opinion but I have to say I disagree with Eukanuba being a good food, I would rate Orijen as far better. OP; there is loads about food in the health and nutrition section of PF if you are contemplating a change.


I've never used Eukanuba but it is one of the best at the higher end of the scale...


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

SLB said:


> I've never used Eukanuba but it is one of the best at the higher end of the scale...


When I was looking for a food I discounted it as it had poor ingredients for the money. Thought it was overpriced rubbish TBH, but, like I said it is just my opinion and I am no animal nutritionist so I may be wrong!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Dogless said:


> It is only my opinion but I have to say I disagree with Eukanuba being a good food, I would rate Orijen as far better. OP; there is loads about food in the health and nutrition section of PF if you are contemplating a change.


I must agree with the Eukanuba, many years ago when I got my first siberian I was told dont feed Eukanuba it drives them nuts and hyper. Funnilly enough a few weeks ago I met an owner whos Young sibe was a really hyper nutcase and when I asked what she was feeding she said Eukanuba. Changed his diet and he was still a lively typical sibe (they always are) but he was much calmer after the diet change.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

SLB said:


> I've never used Eukanuba but it is one of the best at the higher end of the scale...


If you have never used it how can you reccomend it or know its one of the best. Just because a food is at the high end of the scale price wise doesnt always mean its the best.


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## Sleeping_Lion (Mar 19, 2009)

Can I just ask, do you think there are two hair lengths of Labrador?


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## SLB (Apr 25, 2011)

Sled dog hotel said:


> If you have never used it how can you reccomend it or know its one of the best. Just because a food is at the high end of the scale price wise doesnt always mean its the best.


It is just what I have been told is good by a lot of dog owners - this isn't the only means of talking to dog people...


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## RobD-BCactive (Jul 1, 2010)

Fair enough, a food can work great with one owner's dog, but be poor with another. Perhaps recommendations need some hint about sources?

For instance; my dog is fed JWB and well on it. Many ppl in DH&N forum prefer BARF diet ie raw. Some SBT owners say kibble is indigestible and recommend raw.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

ToejaMz0r said:


> I've decided to dedicate getting her out every single day now right after work without fail.
> 
> I took her out today, later than planned (it is the gfs birthday and I still took her out!) and I beasted her, I'm in aload of pain from yesterdays marathon at the gym and planned nothing but a walk but I gave her the run of her life today and was out with her for god knows how long.
> 
> ...


I suggest you buy books by Gwen Bailey and Jean Donaldson and learn how to train a young gundog.


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