# Considering rats - need some help!



## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

In the future, I may be considering getting a couple of male (Well, probably male) rats.

I have a few questions though!

Would the Ferplast Furret Plus cage be suitable for 2 males in terms of it's size?

But then, the thing I am finding SO confusing is food!

I have looked at the shunamite mix, and I am thinking it seems very complicated to do, so I am wondering are there any good staples I can use?

I would be looking at using a pellet (Cos I heard they often leave parts of the muesli) and then adding veggies to make it more interesting, then adding the odd bit of pasta or dog kibble etc?

What is a good base diet that will contain everything the rats will need? 

I heard something about xtravital being good and also Rupert rat being a good food also? 

What would people recommend?


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I feed the shunamite diet and I find it simpl once you've done it.

I feed
6 scoops of Harrison's banana rabbit brunch.
2 scoops of mixed human low sugar and salt cereals like shredded wheats,weetabix,rice cakes,porridge oats.
1 scoop of mixed parakeet and cockatail mix. 
1 scoop of burns chicken and rice dry dog food.

I repeat the mixture until I have a nice big tub full.

I feed fresh fruit n veg daily.
They get cooked dinner at night so long as its not spicy or citris as males can't have due to kidney issues.

The furet plus is fine for 2 rats.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

JessIncaFCR said:


> In the future, I may be considering getting a couple of male (Well, probably male) rats.
> 
> I have a few questions though!
> 
> Would the Ferplast Furret Plus cage be suitable for 2 males in terms of it's size?


Yes that would be suitable  And is a nice cage.



JessIncaFCR said:


> But then, the thing I am finding SO confusing is food!
> 
> I have looked at the shunamite mix, and I am thinking it seems very complicated to do, so I am wondering are there any good staples I can use?
> 
> I would be looking at using a pellet (Cos I heard they often leave parts of the muesli) and then adding veggies to make it more interesting, then adding the odd bit of pasta or dog kibble etc?


I would avoid both pellets and nuggets. They are very boring for rats to eat, not to mention nutritionally subnormal.

You'll be hard pressed to find a decent quality complete mixes for rats available in the average shop. HOWEVER! You can buy a ready made shunamite mix from online from at Rat Rations Complete Ready to Use Mixtures : ratRations.com

You will need to add some supplements with that, but the website explains and it's very simple (just add to their water). The on top of this, you'll need to give them some fresh food as well. I give about 50% fresh food. This is mainly vegetables and left overs. They can have most things, although male rats should not be given citrus.

The most important thing by far is to make sure you find the right breeder. Rats die so young that you need to find a breeder that is really working to improve the health of their rats, as well as fully socialises them. I have taken on unsocialised rats and their quality of life suffers so much as a result of it. Even with careful "therapy" they never seem to fully recover  Well socialised baby rats should be happy to run about all over you and even curl up on your lap if they feel like it.

At all costs, DO NOT buy from a pet shop. Pet shop rats are from rodent farms, which are horrible, horrible places


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

The Furet Plus would be fine but if I'm being completely honest, since you've got time, I would start looking for second hand cages which will let you get a bigger cage for the same price. You can get some nearly new- all of my cages have been second hand and have mostly been in fantastic condition.

Food can be tricky, if you let it.
ratRations.com, Rat food, base mixes and herbs sells premade Shunamite mixes so you don't have to worry about getting the mix wrong. 
Some rats can be picky, I've had a few and for that reason my personal mix contains both pets at home nuggets and selective rat nuggets as well as dried fruit, nuts, cereals, dog kibble, pasta and seeds. I have to say the only reason I make my own mix is due to the number of rats I own. Feeding 17 rats from rat rations is much more costly than me making a mix myself because I can buy it all in bulk locally. BUT if I were to only have two like yourself I would probably just get it done for me from Ratrations.
I think most people recommend 7 and 11 (Complete Ready to Use Mixtures : ratRations.com) but someone feel free to correct me on that.
Oh, if you do go the rat rations route you have to add Calcivet to supplement their nutrients (also available from RR)

ETA: Well that's essentially an identical post! That's Cross-posting for you!


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

Thank you very much for the replies!! Some very good and helpful info there 

So, I took a look at RatRations and it looks great and probably easier, but I would like to know what the sort of price difference between making my own and buying from their would be.

How much roughly does it cost to feed 2 rats on food from rat rations including the supplement thing and how much for just a custom mix?

Is this the right Calcium thing? Calcivet Liquid - Dr. Squiggles - £4.10 : ratRations.com

Thanks, I will definitely do what is best diet wise, but if they have the same nutritional benefit and one is a bit cheaper, I will be keener on that


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

The only thing with RR is the postage costs which can be quite pricey.
If you can source your own mixes from local pet shops and supermarkets you can make it up. 
I find its a lot cheaper for me to mix my own. 
I have 6 rats and a 60l tub of food lasts me around 5 months.


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

blade100 said:


> The only thing with RR is the postage costs which can be quite pricey.
> If you can source your own mixes from local pet shops and supermarkets you can make it up.
> I find its a lot cheaper for me to mix my own.
> I have 6 rats and a 60l tub of food lasts me around 5 months.


Wow! That lasts a long time and sounds pretty cost-effective! 

After reading around various websites, people seemed to recommend the Asda SmartPrice stuff for a lot of things, due to the sugar levels, is this the best or are there any other good alternatives, just so I know of any other good options cereal wise?

Are there any particular bird mixes that are ideal for mixing?

Would I be able to use Burns Fish and Brown Rice instead of the chicken version, or does it have to be chicken?

Thanks so much!


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

JessIncaFCR said:


> Thank you very much for the replies!! Some very good and helpful info there
> 
> So, I took a look at RatRations and it looks great and probably easier, but I would like to know what the sort of price difference between making my own and buying from their would be.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's the calcium supplement, and then here is the link for the daily essentials Daily Essentials 1 - Dr. Squiggles - £5.60 : ratRations.com

The cost of postage from ratrations is quite a lot as the bags are heavy! I just ordered a 5KG ready made mix (I make my own but thought I'd see what this was like as I've never tried it) and the postage was £6 something. So £19 for the whole lot. I've only got three rats left now (I've decided to stop keeping them for a little while  ) and that amount will last them months on end (at a very rough estimation I imagine 4/5 months). I do feed quite a lot of fresh food as well though. Personally, I still buy from rat rations as I range of different products is so wide. Also, by the time I've driven into town, and paid for parking, it wouldn't be much less than the postage anyway!

I've never worked out how much making my own mix makes, but when I first kept rats, I had a much more basic mix (similar to blade100) and this was cheaper than rat rations, but I personally love the range and choice at rat rations. There are so many different things for your rats to try.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2013)

No point in repeating what has already been said  but I will add that for new rat keepers I would advise sticking with the rat rations, yes the postage can be pricey but unless you know what you are doing and send your mix off for analysis you can never be 100% certain that it contains everything needed.

If you want to research into the Shunamite tho I would highly recommend The Scuttling Gourmet as a good read. I've read mine so many times and I still use it for reference :thumbup1:


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I use sainsburys own brands but as long as its got a low % of salt and sugar uou should be fine. Worst ones are named brands!

Yes you can use any flavour burns dog food.

Any seed mix I use Johnston and jeff parakeet and cockatail mix but any pet shop ready mix in 1kg bags would be fine. Just look for one with lots of different Sized seeds like hemp,safflower,pumpkin,oats,wheat,barley and small amounts of sunflower seeds. Sunflower seeds are high in fat but also good for rats coats.


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks for the replies 

If it is going to be hard to ensure they are getting the necessary nutrients, I will go with RatRations.

So, if I go with this supplement Daily Essentials 1 - Dr. Squiggles - £5.60 : ratRations.com and No7 Complete- All Adults - £0.90 : ratRations.com as their food, and then add veggies and stuff for a bit of variety, would that be suitable?

How much would I need to feed them daily (For 2 rats, just so I can work out costs) 

Thanks so much agaiN!

EDIT - Sorry Blade, think we posted at the same time or there abouts! Lol!  Thanks, I will definitely take a look also into the diet you're suggesting


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I used to feed rat rations no7 no garlic when I only had 3-4 rats and then I'd add a small handful of rabbit food to it to make it more bulky as its mainly tiny seeds. It may well be best for you to order from them seeing as you only want two ratties. You have to try things out see if it lasts long etc.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

Also another way to get calcium into rats is to feed raw curly kale and cooked chicken bones! 
I tried that calcivet but my rats hated it.
They however go mad for the daily essentials and I give that twice a week.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2013)

Yep that will be fine, my younger boys get No11 and my old boys get No8.
We have tried No7 before but I found that No11 went down better 

As for how much, my boys always have access to dry food but I use large bowls so only need to top them up once a day 
As a guide I have 8 here at the moment and get through around 10kg a month


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks! That's great! 

So, with the daily essentials, would I just add it to the water twice a week, or sprinkle over food?

(Sorry about the questions) but I have another one! This time with regard to bedding. Could I use vet bed or fleece on the bottom of the cage instead of standard bedding?


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

You mix 1 level spoon (you get with the mix) in a jug of i think 400mls of water.
It's usually all gone by the next day.


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

If you use fleece or vet bed then you will need to add in a digging/foraging box as rats love to forage for bits of food.
I personally prefer Eco bed cardboard bedding. There is also finacard,megazorb,hempcore and many others.
I then shred up newspaper in there plastic house.

And you'll need various hammocks and lots of them!


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

blade100 said:


> You mix 1 level spoon (you get with the mix) in a jug of i think 400mls of water.
> It's usually all gone by the next day.


Thanks! Is that twice a week or more regularly?


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2013)

JessIncaFCR said:


> Thanks! That's great!
> 
> So, with the daily essentials, would I just add it to the water twice a week, or sprinkle over food?
> 
> (Sorry about the questions) but I have another one! This time with regard to bedding. Could I use vet bed or fleece on the bottom of the cage instead of standard bedding?


Blade answered your first so won't repeat.
You can use vetbed or fleece if you want, it isn't for everyone tho. I tried it for a while and it wasn't for me so I use Auboise as the substrate for my lot


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

JessIncaFCR said:


> Thanks! That's great!
> 
> So, with the daily essentials, would I just add it to the water twice a week, or sprinkle over food?
> 
> (Sorry about the questions) but I have another one! This time with regard to bedding. Could I use vet bed or fleece on the bottom of the cage instead of standard bedding?


I add it to their water - they go crazy for it!

You can use fleece etc, lots of people do, at the bottom of their cage, but be warned, it will soak up their urine and will become smelly. I find a dust free substrate to be best at keeping the smell at bay, and need to change it a lot less frequently than I do with fleece. Also, they like to dig in it and make nests. My favourite in Finacard Cardboard Animal Bedding, Paper Horse Bedding, Nesting Material : Finacard


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## blade100 (Aug 24, 2009)

I give it Monday and Fridays. Some people give it 3 times a week.
Some only once.


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

Ok, sounds like fleece/vet bed may not be the best option! 

I will take a look at the one you suggested


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

blade100 said:


> I give it Monday and Fridays. Some people give it 3 times a week.
> Some only once.


Ok, cool! Thanks!


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm a fleece user- I have 17 rats in a frankenstein Explorer and Aventura joined together. If I forget to put towels under the fleece (which I do sometimes) then it only lasts 2 days before it smells, but if I put the towels under then it lasts about 5 days. I find it much easier than bedding but probably only due to sheer size of the cage. If I had a Furet Plus I'd probably use bedding. I also use Finacard in the litter trays (oh yeah, rats can be litter trained!) and it can be ordered with RR so that's handy


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks so much for all your help! It has made this research sooo much easier


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

JessIncaFCR said:


> Looking at the categories down the side of the page, they have degus, hamsters, ferrets etc, but I couldn't see rats. Are they all the same?


Yes, they are the same, it's just which bag you want. Some come with bedding and litter as well (both dust free and safe). You can also order sample bags to try it out first.

No problem asking questions  I wish everyone did!

Edited to add: It is all the same, but I've just found the rat section for you anyway http://www.finacard-uk.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=45


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## JessIncaFCR (Oct 1, 2012)

The Finacard stuff looks fantastic! If/when I get some rats (So hope I will!!) I will definitely use this stuff!


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

JessIncaFCR said:


> The Finacard stuff looks fantastic! If/when I get some rats (So hope I will!!) I will definitely use this stuff!


I really like it. I've tried a few different sorts of substrate over the years, but always come back to finacard. Also, a bale (without extra bedding and litter) is £13.99 and lasts me _at least_ 6 months.


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## Tomskrat (Aug 11, 2011)

> Sounds very good value for money! OnRatRations it says its 7.50 or something for a bale. Is it the same sized bale as on the finacard website?


it says on the sites that the finacard bale from ratrations is 20kg while the bale from the main finacard site is 17kg. 

edit
there the same, ignore me 

remember to check the postage, its £8.00 p+p (ratrations) to deliver to me.


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

That's another thing- when I ordered my bale of Finacard from RR the postage was £8. But then I added a billion other things and the postage was still £8 so best to order loads at once and make the postage worthwhile. Maybe a bale of Finacard and a bulk bag of food would make the postage worth it?


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## halfeatenapple (Jan 2, 2013)

For where I am it costs far too much in postage.


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