# HELP-House cats to go outside.



## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

A


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Sorry cant really help as I have always had house cats and now have a run in the garden for my current cat but I have to ask if you don't have a cat flap,how will your cats get in and out of the house?Also it is not a good idea to take away your cats litter trays even if they are outdoor cats,they need to be able to relieve themselves when they are shut in which I assume they will be overnight when its dark outside.
Cats need litter trays even if they don't use them very often.
Hopefully someone with more experience of outdoor cats will be along to advise you on how to go about letting them out.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Our cats were allowed out in the day but kept in at night with a litter tray. Cats tend to roam further at night.
My last cat was a stray so I didnt have to go through the letting her out stage. 
Don't feed them before you let them out. make sure your neighbours know they are your cats .
I don't like collars on cats but you might want to put collars and identity disc on them (as well as microchipped) .


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## Cookieandme (Dec 29, 2011)

Aed said:


> Hi guys,new to this!
> 
> but would really like to not have to have a litter box in the house anymore!
> 
> Thanks in advance!!


Sorry but if you take on a cat then you take them on poo / wee the lot. The only one not having a litter tray suits is you, cats should always have access to an indoor try - what if they feel unwell or just don't want to go out when it's raining / snowing or just freezing cold.


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

I have had cats my whole life and never had a litter tray with adult cats-the reason I wrote this post was for advice as I haven't had an indoor cat before.Dogs don't have litter trays-how are cats any different?Both go outside to use the bathroom regardless of weather.I feel as if it's being insinuated I'm being cruel in some way get him fact it's common practise.


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

buffie said:


> Sorry cant really help as I have always had house cats and now have a run in the garden for my current cat but I have to ask if you don't have a cat flap,how will your cats get in and out of the house?Also it is not a good idea to take away your cats litter trays even if they are outdoor cats,they need to be able to relieve themselves when they are shut in which I assume they will be overnight when its dark outside.
> Cats need litter trays even if they don't use them very often.
> Hopefully someone with more experience of outdoor cats will be along to advise you on how to go about letting them out.


I

I have a kitchen window to keep open


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Aed said:


> I have had cats my whole life and never had a litter tray with adult cats-the reason I wrote this post was for advice as I haven't had an indoor cat before.*Dogs don't have litter trays-how are cats any different*?Both go outside to use the bathroom regardless of weather.I feel as if it's being insinuated I'm being cruel in some way get him fact it's common practise.


Sorry you feel that you are being accused of being cruel but TBH by not allowing your cat the safety of a secure place to toilet in it that is what it boils down to.
You asked for advice on an open forum and that is what you have been given,the majority of members on the forum will advise that a litter tray should always be available
Cats can feel threatened when they have to toilet outside as they are easily attacked while going about their"business".It really isn't a lot to ask that you provide a tray for use by them especially in the long/dark winter nights when they really shouldn't be out anyway.
As for the difference between dogs and cats ,apart from the obvious dogs,on the whole can be taught to toilet at certain times which makes their habits far more predicable cats on the other hand only go when *they *need to and can become very stressed if they cant find a suitable area where they feel safe.


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

buffie said:


> Sorry cant really help as I have always had house cats and now have a run in the garden for my current cat but I have to ask if you don't have a cat flap,how will your cats get in and out of the house?Also it is not a good idea to take away your cats litter trays even if they are outdoor cats,they need to be able to relieve themselves when they are shut in which I assume they will be overnight when its dark outside.
> Cats need litter trays even if they don't use them very often.
> Hopefully someone with more experience of outdoor cats will be along to advise you on how to go about letting them out.


Can I ask what run you have?Do you put them in that in the day?


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

I am not a cruel owner,in any way.My question wasn't really in relation to the litter tray it was in relation on how to integrate an indoor cat into the outside world.


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Aed said:


> I am not a cruel owner,in any way.My question wasn't really in relation to the litter tray it was in relation on how to integrate an indoor cat into the outside world.


Also,to add,I have always had cats that have been toilet trained (kept in when dark and not relived themselves in the house) and therefore I can't see how they are different to my dog.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Aed said:


> Can I ask what run you have?Do you put them in that in the day?


Easier to show you than to explain..



It has a tunnel which is connected to a small run at the back door giving him freedom to come and go during daylight when I'm in

Access tunnel


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Ah ok,thank you,looks a bit like a bird aviary!Don't think that would work in my garden unfortunately but thank you for the photo.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Aed said:


> Also,to add,I have always had cats that have been toilet trained (kept in when dark and not relived themselves in the house) and therefore I can't see how they are different to my dog.


If you have "toilet trained" a cat then I would love to know the secret,just because your cats didn't toilet in the house overnight sadly doesn't mean they were happy about it,infact they were I'm sure stressed about it many times


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Ok well I would like to revert back to my original post,if anyone has any tips on how to begin introducing indoor cats to the outside world then I would be grateful.

Thanks.


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## buffie (May 31, 2010)

Aed said:


> Hi guys,new to this!
> 
> I have two male 1 and a half year old house cats (Rufus and Humphrey) that I want to start allowing out of the house now we live in a quieter area and would like to hear some advice about how best to go about this*?I don't have a catflap but would really like to not have to have a litter box in the house anymore!*
> 
> Thanks in advance!!





Aed said:


> *Ok well I would like to revert back to my original post*,if anyone has any tips on how to begin introducing indoor cats to the outside world then I would be grateful.
> 
> Thanks.


I think you will find most members will comment on the "removal of the litter tray" which is in your original post .


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Ok and I am now asking for advice on the topic of house cats-as stated in title.Thank you for your opinions but I don't want to discuss litter trays I want to discuss letting my cats outside.


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Aed said:


> Hi guys,new to this!
> 
> I have two male 1 and a half year old house cats (Rufus and Humphrey) that I want to start allowing out of the house now we live in a quieter area and would like to hear some advice about how best to go about this?I don't have a catflap but would really like to not have to have a litter box in the house anymore!
> 
> Thanks in advance!!


May I add that I have a small (cat sized) window I intend on leaving open for the boys to come in and out of.


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## Bilai (Jun 3, 2015)

Cats and dogs really can't be treated the same. Just saying. I'll let more experienced people talk about the outdoor intro.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

Difference in cats and dogs pooing outside? There are a couple. Others have addressed the security issue, but here's an equally important one. your dog goes outside and you pick it up. Your cat goes outside and your neighbour picks up your pet's poo after they've dug up their new seedlings to go, or ripped up their lawn, or pooed in their gravel. Or they take it out of the hand of their young child or grandchild who has been playing in the garden.

So your idea to remove the litter tray is irresponsible, not fair to your cat, not fair to other people, and only benefitting yourself. Go you!


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

I didn't join this group to be criticised or to be,quite frankly,picked on by a load of strangers.I joined to ask about the safest way for my cats to be introduced to the outside.Is this how you treat all new members?Have you spoken to my neighbours and asked how they feel about my cats (as I have) do you know my name?Have you spoken to my vet (as I have) No.No you haven't.So you have made a new member and a fellow cat lover feel extremely uncomfortable and unwilling to write on pet forums again...Go you!


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## catcoonz (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi Aed,
Is there any way you could possibly cat proof the garden?
Failing this, the best time to allow cats outside for the first time is when they are hungry, so 30 minutes before their meal, so they associate coming back indoors for dinner time.
With litter trays, you need to place near the door inside the home, then leave the back door open and place litter tray just on the step, then slowly moving the litter tray further away until you don't need it anymore.


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

catcoonz said:


> Hi Aed,
> Is there any way you could possibly cat proof the garden?
> Failing this, the best time to allow cats outside for the first time is when they are hungry, so 30 minutes before their meal, so they associate coming back indoors for dinner time.
> With litter trays, you need to place near the door inside the home, then leave the back door open and place litter tray just on the step, then slowly moving the litter tray further away until you don't need it anymore.


Thank you for this post!! 

What do you mean by cat proof?I've not heard of this!Thank you for the food tip I will definitely try this as my little blighters are greedy boys!  litter box is already by back door so when I feel they are ready then I guess the next step is onto the patio for a few hours to try them out?


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

If you click on this link it will show you a company (and pictures) of how to cat proof you fencing:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...1IIfV2_zM:&usg=__b-sAnsOIMe4e6nERkKv2eGdgASw=


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Sacremist said:


> If you click on this link it will show you a company (and pictures) of how to cat proof you fencing:
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cat+proofing+fence&tbm=isch&imgil=9FRlz1IIfV2_zM%3A%3BB9UQPhEWnUiatM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.katzecure.com%252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=9FRlz1IIfV2_zM%3A%2CB9UQPhEWnUiatM%2C_&biw=1280&bih=607&usg=__b-sAnsOIMe4e6nERkKv2eGdgASw=&ved=0CFkQyjdqFQoTCKG87OCVickCFUJ-GgodQNsGgw&ei=vJ9DVqHuAsL8acC2m5gI#imgrc=9FRlz1IIfV2_zM:&usg=__b-sAnsOIMe4e6nERkKv2eGdgASw=


Thank you!


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## ameliajane (Mar 26, 2011)

I had a cat (Declan) that was an indoor cat as I lived in a flat and then when I moved into a house I started to let him out.
Initially I just carried him outside the back door for brief periods each day. As he was very relaxed with this I started to carry him around the garden.
From here I progressed to putting him down just outside the back door and letting him have a short wander before bringing him back indoors.
We slowly progressed to exploring the whole garden together, encouraging him to walk back to the house with me at the end of each session, so that he would know the way home.
Eventually the day came he just suddenly ran off. He disappeared over the fence and was gone for hours. I was worried sick! However, he did finally come back home by himself and after that I just had to trust him as if i tried to accompany him on his walks he made his feelings about this very clear by running away!
I also put his used cat litter all around the boundary of my garden. I gather this can help the cat to feel more confident and lets any other cats in the area know that there is now a new neighbour.
I also dug shelter areas of the garden to make toileting areas for him although I also kept a litter tray indoors too. Apart from the problems of potentially stressing the cat if you totally remove the litter tray you also run the risk that if the cat does get caught short and ends up toileting somewhere in the house you may find this then becomes a very difficult habit to break.
Having said that I know lots of people do not have litter trays and I do have an ex-stray cat at the moment that goes outside and she would probably rather die than use any of the litter trays - however that is her choice as indoor litter trays are available to her.
Just to add, in the end I did regret letting Declan out. He kept getting attacked by other cats and once he went missing for 10 days. It's such a worry when they go out - you have no idea what is happening to them. I now have three indoor cats (plus the ex-stray) and I will be building a cat run for them next year.
I wish I done this for Declan.


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## kimthecat (Aug 11, 2009)

Aed said:


> I am not a cruel owner,in any way.My question wasn't really in relation to the litter tray it was in relation on how to integrate an indoor cat into the outside world.


I don't think you're a cruel owner. You want the best for your cats. If decide you don't want a tray then perhaps you can dig over an earth patch for them to encourage them go in . The reason I suggest this is that cats often go in other people's gardens and that is something that can be avoided. 
My dogs don't have a litter tray , if they need to go in the night which happens, then they wake me and I let them out.
When I had an small old dog i put down pee pads so i didn't have to get up every night .


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Thank you both for your replies and advice!Looking forward to allowing my boys the opportunity to explore outside and will be working on our garden this weekend to make sure it is suitable for them! Thanks again


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## ameliajane (Mar 26, 2011)

Hope all goes well with your cats.
And do stick around. Petforum members may not always see eye to eye on everything but collectively there is an invaluable amount of knowledge and support to be found here.


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## Carzana (Oct 28, 2015)

buffie said:


> If you have "toilet trained" a cat then I would love to know the secret,just because your cats didn't toilet in the house overnight sadly doesn't mean they were happy about it,infact they were I'm sure stressed about it many times


Not entirely related by Mi-wow uses our actual toilet for a wee. We have never trained her to do this at all ( I wouldn't even know where to start!!)

I agree though cats are not the same as dogs and i don't know many that can hold their bladder/bowel overnight.
We have our small kitchen window open 24/7 and two trays, im afraid litter trays are pretty much part of cat ownership, sorry to disappoint. The only thing you could try is to move the tray closer and closer to the cat flap/window access point then once they are happily using it near the flap pop it outside in a covered place the other side and see if it works but honestly forcing a cat to hold its bladder can be very dangerous as they easily develop kidney problems and cystitis too which is not very nice at all.


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

ameliajane said:


> Hope all goes well with your cats.
> And do stick around. Petforum members may not always see eye to eye on everything but collectively there is an invaluable amount of knowledge and support to be found here.


Thank you for your kind words  after reading your advice I will stick around as I do want the best for my boys and I feel like fellow cat owners can advice me well! I totally understand difference of opinions but lots of people do lots of things differently and there are ways to say things and put points of views across without being judgemental  thanks again for taking the time to message me back


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Carzana said:


> Not entirely related by Mi-wow uses our actual toilet for a wee. We have never trained her to do this at all ( I wouldn't even know where to start!!)
> 
> I agree though cats are not the same as dogs and i don't know many that can hold their bladder/bowel overnight.
> We have our small kitchen window open 24/7 and two trays, im afraid litter trays are pretty much part of cat ownership, sorry to disappoint. The only thing you could try is to move the tray closer and closer to the cat flap/window access point then once they are happily using it near the flap pop it outside in a covered place the other side and see if it works but honestly forcing a cat to hold its bladder can be very dangerous as they easily develop kidney problems and cystitis too which is not very nice at all.


A


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## Carzana (Oct 28, 2015)

Aed said:


> Thank you for your kind words  after reading your advice I will stick around as I do want the best for my boys and I feel like fellow cat owners can advice me well! I totally understand difference of opinions but lots of people do lots of things differently and there are ways to say things and put points of views across without being judgemental  thanks again for taking the time to message me back


I hope I didnt come across as mean or judgmental I honestly only wanted to help you x


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## Sacrechat (Feb 27, 2011)

Carzana said:


> I hope I didnt come across as mean or judgmental I honestly only wanted to help you x


I don't think she meant you, she was referring to some earlier posts. I stand corrected if I'm wrong.


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Sacremist said:


> I don't think she meant you, she was referring to some earlier posts. I stand corrected if I'm wrong.


No I wasn't referring to you at all!!I am very grateful for your post,you were very helpful  I was referring to previous posts


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Carzana said:


> I hope I didnt come across as mean or judgmental I honestly only wanted to help you x


No I wasn't referring to you at all!!I am very grateful for your post,you were very helpful  I was referring to previous posts


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## mag8et (Nov 4, 2015)

My cats were purely indoor cats for 6 years (apartment living), then I moved into a small terrace with backyard, but no cat flap. I'd let them out when I was home, but with rare exceptions, neither one liked to stray far, and they'd mostly just sit on the flag stones in the garden and watch the world. They never learned to toilet outside, and kept using the litter box (then again, they didn't spend more than a few hours outside per day). To be honest, I was glad about that because the entire neighbourhood of cats used the beds in my garden as a litter box, and trying to plant anything was really disgusting. My personal stance on that one is that each owner should be responsible for their own cats' leavings, so I'm glad to know mine don't deposit in my neighbours flower beds. I do realize other people disagree on the matter.

Two years ago, I moved house, this time with a cat flap. It took one of my cats 6 weeks to learn how to use it! Now they have free access to the outdoors, but rarely spend more than five minutes at a time outdoors from about Oct through March. They spend a bit more time out in summer, but come in frequently to check on me. I have seen one of them wee on mulched area in the garden on occasion, but they don't do big business outside (as evidenced by daily use of litter box).


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

mag8et said:


> My cats were purely indoor cats for 6 years (apartment living), then I moved into a small terrace with backyard, but no cat flap. I'd let them out when I was home, but with rare exceptions, neither one liked to stray far, and they'd mostly just sit on the flag stones in the garden and watch the world. They never learned to toilet outside, and kept using the litter box (then again, they didn't spend more than a few hours outside per day). To be honest, I was glad about that because the entire neighbourhood of cats used the beds in my garden as a litter box, and trying to plant anything was really disgusting. My personal stance on that one is that each owner should be responsible for their own cats' leavings, so I'm glad to know mine don't deposit in my neighbours flour beds. I do realize other people disagree on the matter.
> 
> Two years ago, I moved house, this time with a cat flap. It took one of my cats 6 weeks to learn how to use it! Now they have free access to the outdoors, but rarely spend more than five minutes at a time outdoors from about Oct through March. They spend a bit more time out in summer, but come in frequently to check on me. I have seen one of them wee on mulched area in the garden on occasion, but they don't do big business outside (as evidenced by daily use of litter box).


Thank you!I was wondering whether some cats never take to the outdoors!Mine have never been outside but since we have moved have been peeping out into our garden more and more so hoping they will not be too scared to try and explore a little bit


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## claire8234 (Mar 8, 2013)

Please dont be offended, we are all here to help honestly! Unfortunately the subject of having outdoor cats is a very emotive one. 

We have always had outdoor cats because we have rescued ones that have had access to the outside before. My cat toilets in the garden but we still have a tray, it doesnt get used, maybe once in a blue moon but just for now I would keep it down. As for letting your cats out its best to do this before a meal so they are going to be hungry and less likely to wander off. Late afternoon is good but be wary of the fact it gets dark early. Open the back door and leave it open, let them explore and investigate in their own time. Go outside with them to keep an eye on them and give them reassurance if they need it. Keep some treats or a toy in your pocket if they look like they might stray too far. You should be able to call them in or get them back in with food, their dinner etc. If you dont have a cat flap please make sure they have somewhere to go to shelter, have a look at outdoor plastic cst houses or consider putting a cat flap in a shed or garage. Please dont let your cats out for them to be out all day and unable to get in. Lastly please be sure to keep them in at night, my cat flap is always locked when it gets dark. Once they are used to going outside you may find they go further and you cant see them. They are just exploring their territory, a tin with treats you can rattle is good for getting them in again


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## Paddypaws (May 4, 2010)

I would _try _and train some degree of recall. each and every time you feed the cats or give them a treat, make a little whistle noise. Very quickly they should come to respond to this whistle and it gives you a better chance of being able to call them in from outside.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

My cats go out here - it's safe for them to do so. In previous houses it hasn't been, so they haven't.

Smudge was an indoor for 8.5 years until I moved to the farm - he liked to potter around in the garden (once he plucked up the courage to go out - he lay in the open door in the sun for weeks first!) - it was lovely seeing him enjoy being out, chasing 'things' for his last couple of years

Mine both have great recall - as @Paddypaws teaching them to come for a treat is a great way of getting them back from indoors - and also start with a couple of mins, bring them back and then build the length of time up gradually

BUT ...... there is absolutely no way I would ever not have a litter tray indoors. Why would any animal want to go out to toilet in the pouring rain / howling wind / snow etc? Have you any idea how hard it can be to get your dog to go out in that? (and there isn't a choice with them!) - it's also often the 1st sign of things like UTIs ...... knowing your cats toilet habits is a really handy health check indicator

If you didn't want people to comment on the litter trays .... why did you mention them in the first place!


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Lilylass said:


> My cats go out here - it's safe for them to do so. In previous houses it hasn't been, so they haven't.
> 
> Smudge was an indoor for 8.5 years until I moved to the farm - he liked to potter around in the garden (once he plucked up the courage to go out - he lay in the open door in the sun for weeks first!) - it was lovely seeing him enjoy being out, chasing 'things' for his last couple of years
> 
> ...


 I'm not starting the litter tray debate again sorry-I'm past defending my position Thanks for your advice on the recall,I will try that.


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## Squeaks (Oct 16, 2014)

I agree with mag8et and kimthecat. If you want to ditch the litter tray you need to provide a latrine area in your garden to encourage them to use that, and you would still need to remove the waste from this area frequently so they continue to use it. They may also never fully give up using the litter tray - just some things to be aware of.

Ours have a cat proof garden and still prefer to go in the litter trays indoors. In fact Dino pooped outside for the first time this week because we had people round and he felt uneasy doing his business indoors. I had to go straight out and pick it up as I didn't want to forget where it was and step in cat poop in the garden. At least when they go indoors I know where their business is! We also had cats use our garden as a latrine before we got ours, and one of the reasons we cat proofed the garden was so that they wouldn't toilet in our neighbours' gardens.

If you can I would get a cat flap put in so they can go outside to do their business when they want. It would make life much easier for you. I wouldn't risk removing the indoor litter trays unless I knew they could go out when they wanted, otherwise you might find they start toileting around the house. Once they start that habit you might have a job to get them to stop.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

Aed said:


> I'm not starting the litter tray debate again sorry-I'm past defending my position Thanks for your advice on the recall,I will try that.


If you didn't want people to comment on it, then why did you put it in the 1st post?

When several people then commented on it and suddenly it's not about the litter tray - why did you not therefore remove it from the 1st post so that anyone coming along later wouldn't even have seen it!


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## Aed (Nov 10, 2015)

Lilylass said:


> If you didn't want people to comment on it, then why did you put it in the 1st post?
> 
> When several people then commented on it and suddenly it's not about the litter tray - why did you not therefore remove it from the 1st post so that anyone coming along later wouldn't even have seen it!


Didn't know I could and it was never about the tray it was about letting them outside.It's ok,I have contacted pet forum and asked to have the thread closed and I won't be writing on here again. Thanks to those who responded kindly and answered my queries about house cats. To those who continually reiterated points that had already been made about the tray and were,quite frankly,quite unkind-thanks too.Made me realise seeking advice online was a bad idea.


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## Lilylass (Sep 13, 2012)

I actually can't see that anyone has been unkind .... 

It's an emotive subject I'm afraid as most of us believe cats need trays 

Good luck with letting them out


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