# Rat bleeding from ear



## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Boom has been slowing down recently, Ive had to treat him twice for mites as his fur is thining (havent seen any mites), and hes generally been a bit slower and more quiet. Today I spotted a tiny bit of watery blood from his ear, I will start him on some baytril today in case hes got an ear infection but having read about zymbals gland tumours one of the symptoms is bleeding from the ears, has anyone seen this with rats before and what can cause it?


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## Sarah+Hammies (Jul 20, 2009)

Oh no, I hope its not. Sorry I don't have much experience with ratty ailments but I wanted to send you and Boom some positive vibes and ((((((hugs))))))


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Sarah+Hammies said:


> Oh no, I hope its not. Sorry I don't have much experience with ratty ailments but I wanted to send you and Boom some positive vibes and ((((((hugs))))))


Im probably overreacting after loosing Pierce, lets hope its just an ear infection.


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## Sarah+Hammies (Jul 20, 2009)

After losing Pierce you're bound to be more sensitive to these things. (((hugs))) I hope its an ear infection and nothing more sinister.


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

If it's ZGT then there should be a tumour/lump underneath his ear by his jaw.
It's possible that even without the lump this is still an indication of ZGT, but if there isn't one I'd be more inclined to go with ear infection.\
The tricky thing is I don't think there's much a vet can do to tell the difference until the lump is apparent anyway, so I'd just keep him on the ABs and see if he improves.

Sending good vibes your way <3


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## bewitched (Jun 9, 2010)

How is he today? Hope a little better x


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

bewitched said:


> How is he today? Hope a little better x


He seems fine today, he doesnt have any more blood today so im hoping thats a good sign, thanks for asking bewitched


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## elmthesofties (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm not experienced with rats or their tumors, but one of my boys had it a while back. I did some research and several people said EXACTLY the same thing: the tumor appeared very quickly and there was no real warning of it beforehand. I can't really remember, but I think the tumor developed before the bleeding ear.

I would really, really hate to give you any advice because of my lack of experience, but if Boom is like my previous rat, it doesn't sound like the same illness. But that's just from my very, very limited experience.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Ive just found a small lump, about the size of a pea , its on his jawline/throat on the same side as his blood in his ear was. I have a really really bad feeling about this, can anything be done if its operated on early enough and would it even be fair to put him through an operation given that he isnt in the best of health. Most importantly can someone look on that link and tell me if he will be in pain, I know Im being stupid but I cant look myself, I cant see those pictures so soon after loosing Pierce


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## chrisd (Aug 25, 2011)

Which link?


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

Snippet had something similar. She had a large lump on her cheek which I thought was a ZGT, then she started bleeding from her ear. A FNA showed necrotic tissue and bacteria which could either be an abscess or a ZGT (or both. They often show up together). After a heavy duty course of baytril the lump disappeared. She got another on the other side a few months later, but from other people's experience ZGT tend to go from diagnosis to PTS in a few weeks. I can post a photo when I get home if that would help?

Is Boom related to Pierce?


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Snippet said:


> Snippet had something similar. She had a large lump on her cheek which I thought was a ZGT, then she started bleeding from her ear. A FNA showed necrotic tissue and bacteria which could either be an abscess or a ZGT (or both. They often show up together). After a heavy duty course of baytril the lump disappeared. She got another on the other side a few months later, but from other people's experience ZGT tend to go from diagnosis to PTS in a few weeks. I can post a photo when I get home if that would help?
> 
> Is Boom related to Pierce?


That would be great if you dont mind Snippet, I put him on Baytril last night but Ive just been giving him 0.2ml twice a day, would you think he would need more, hes a particullarly small rat (I can weigh him tonight when he wakes up again). Boom isnt related to Pierce, they were just cage mates. I hope its something that can be treated, he is looking very old nowdays though and hes only 25 months old so not ancient, his brother Flash looks a lot younger .


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

chrisd said:


> Which link?


Sorry Chris, it was on a different thread, I should have added it here so it makes more sense.

Health Guide: Zymbal's Gland Tumor


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## Maltey (Nov 29, 2011)

0.2ml would be recommended for a rat around 400-450g


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Maltey said:


> 0.2ml would be recommended for a rat around 400-450g


Thanks Maltey, I imagine he wont be far off that, I'll weigh him when he wakes up to mae sure though, the other thing hes doing differently is eating like mad and not really putting weight on, Pierce also did that before he got ill.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

I just weighed him, he didnt even try to get off the scales, I want my wriggly naughty Boom back , hes actually lost quite a lot of weight since I last weighed them, its been 12 weeks since I did it last but he was 510g then and hes 375g now .


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

thedogsmother said:


> That would be great if you dont mind Snippet, I put him on Baytril last night but Ive just been giving him 0.2ml twice a day, would you think he would need more, hes a particullarly small rat (I can weigh him tonight when he wakes up again). Boom isnt related to Pierce, they were just cage mates. I hope its something that can be treated, he is looking very old nowdays though and hes only 25 months old so not ancient, his brother Flash looks a lot younger .


This is Snippet's lump. It felt very attatched and hard. It's on the side nearest the camera in this photo. I though I had a better photo, but it's been 2 years since she passed so my memory was a bit rubbish.









I tend to go by 0.1ml per 100g of rat when doing baytril, but it's very hard to overdose so you can give a lot more. Snippet was on 0.4ml a day, and she was tiny (about 250g)


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

She really was a stunning little lady, unfortunately her lump looks to be the same as the one on Boom, its in the same place and the same size . If I take him to the vets is there anything else they can do for him? If not I would rather not stress him out anymore than I have to with a vet visit when I can give him baytril at home.


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you. 

If it is a tumour then it can be debulked (but not removed. Too many important structures) and steroids can be given which will hopefully slow it's growth. As ZGT often come with nasty abscesses it might be an idea to get an antibiotic like antirobe which will prevent the infection going into the bone. Pain killers are always good, but if he has steroids I think he can't have NSAIDs like metacam.


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Snippet said:


> Thank you.
> 
> If it is a tumour then it can be debulked (but not removed. Too many important structures) and steroids can be given which will hopefully slow it's growth. As ZGT often come with nasty abscesses it might be an idea to get an antibiotic like antirobe which will prevent the infection going into the bone. Pain killers are always good, but if he has steroids I think he can't have NSAIDs like metacam.


Thanks Snippet I think it might be better to take him in and ask for them to prescribe everything that hes allowed, although I dont know how much longer I want to keep him going, he is eating (a lot) and sleeping but hes not even wanting to play at free range time so Im worried that hes actually in pain. I think hes deteriorated since yesterday, Im just so shocked, Id never heard of this before I lost Pierce and now within a week I might be facing another rat with the same condition


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

thedogsmother said:


> Thanks Snippet I think it might be better to take him in and ask for them to prescribe everything that hes allowed, although I dont know how much longer I want to keep him going, he is eating (a lot) and sleeping but hes not even wanting to play at free range time so Im worried that hes actually in pain. I think hes deteriorated since yesterday, Im just so shocked, Id never heard of this before I lost Pierce and now within a week I might be facing another rat with the same condition


A steroid injection might make him feel better. They are good pain killers for small animals as other pain killers can be metabolised too quickly.


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

I've just seen this link to a ratty with a facial abscess. It shows how big they can get. Facial skin abscess


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## thedogsmother (Aug 28, 2008)

Snippet said:


> I've just seen this link to a ratty with a facial abscess. It shows how big they can get. Facial skin abscess


I took some pictures of Pierces and it was pretty horrifying, I can PM them to you if you would like to see them, I dont think its fair to post them on here as it really is pretty horrible. Booms lump is still comparitively small though.


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## Snippet (Apr 14, 2011)

thedogsmother said:


> I took some pictures of Pierces and it was pretty horrifying, I can PM them to you if you would like to see them, I dont think its fair to post them on here as it really is pretty horrible. Booms lump is still comparitively small though.


If you would like to then I'm happy to have a look. I don't mind looking at all things gory and gruesome


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