# Shocked by organ donation!



## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

How can we be so short of donors

How can people be dying when their are perfectly good organs being burnt or buried

I'm a shocked!

What possible reason could you have for not donating???


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

I agree, i feel strongly about this too.


----------



## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

because (correct me if im wrong) the law states that even if someone is on the organ doner list to give most/all body parts and a close family member raises an issue with it then they cant legally use those body parts, no matter how good they are. 
that is why there is a shortage, because some family members are extremely selfish and dont want their loved one going to help others, they want them whole, in a hole in the ground, or burnt to a crisp in a vase.


----------



## Tamsin W (Sep 18, 2012)

To be fair, of all deaths on any given day, only a small number of organs will actually be viable for donation at all - too old, overweight, smokers, pre-existing conditions, too long after time of death (particularly in the case of extremely 'time sensitive' organs). Then you have to take into consideration the number of people who haven't opted out, but haven't opted in either - so the NHS have to expend time and effort obtaining consent from the families, by which time it may be too late (and the shock of suddenly being informed that a loved one has died might also affect their answer).

I do have a donor card, but say they were to try and allocate, for example, my lungs to someone - I've been a non-smoker for eight months, but I was a smoker prior to that for about 15 years. Chances are my lungs are not in tip-top condition now - and the likelihood that anyone with CF (or any other lung condition necessitating a transplant) would actually want them are slim to none. 

Again, the NHS might have what they believe to be a perfectly acceptable liver - until they come to actually remove it from donor patient, and find a cyst. Might be completely benign, but it still has to be biopsied, and done fast.

So, what starts out as a potentially huge pool of potential organs shrinks pretty dramatically once you get down to technicalities. I don't think I personally know anyone who wouldn't want to act as an organ donor should the unfortunate situation arise, but if they don't have a card explicitly stating as such, the choice might not be theirs at all. And then you have the (admittedly minority) groups who refuse donation by default on religious grounds or similar.

Not condoning 'refusing donation' at all, but it's not really black and white.


----------



## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

I was up until recently against having my organs donated, and always said if i needed a donor myself i wouldn't want one. 
However, a few weeks ago i signed up to the register, so am now a donor if i die. I did only tick certain organs though, as i don't want my eyes or my heart being taken, but anything else is good to go lol.


----------



## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

DollyGirl08 said:


> I was up until recently against having my organs donated, and always said if i needed a donor myself i wouldn't want one.
> However, a few weeks ago i signed up to the register, so am now a donor if i die. I did only tick certain organs though, as i don't want my eyes or my heart being taken, but anything else is good to go lol.


But why though?

When your gone your gone.


----------



## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Just my personal preference. I have seen things with my eyes, made memories with my eyes, and loved all my animals in my heart, they just feel more personal to me, than say, my liver and kidneys.


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

I am a regular blood donor and have been on the organ register for circa 30 years if I remember rightly. My card has been renewed several times due to aging in my purse! 

I am also registered with bone marrow transplant although I am now too old.

I would be very grateful to receive life saving blood, marrow organs for myself or my loved ones, therefore it would be hypocritical for me NOT to be on the register.

All my family know of my desires.


----------



## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

How do you donate bone marrow? 
Wouldn't you have to have your bone cracked open? 

I've seen this new thing about the umbilical cord being donated. I think that's a good idea and i'd do that if/when i have a child.


----------



## ClaireLouise (Oct 11, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> But why though?
> 
> When your gone your gone.


I understand what you are saying but its not that simple for some. Many cant donate organ because it goes against religion/beliefs


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

DollyGirl08 said:


> How do you donate bone marrow?
> Wouldn't you have to have your bone cracked open?
> 
> I've seen this new thing about the umbilical cord being donated. I think that's a good idea and i'd do that if/when i have a child.


You can read about it here.

NHSBT - British Bone Marrow Registry


----------



## Tamsin W (Sep 18, 2012)

DollyGirl08 said:


> How do you donate bone marrow?
> Wouldn't you have to have your bone cracked open?
> 
> I've seen this new thing about the umbilical cord being donated. I think that's a good idea and i'd do that if/when i have a child.


Gigantic needle in the hip. Apparently hurts more than words can convey.

Blood donation is a walk in the park in comparison. I'm off the register due to insufficient body mass now, unfortunately - I'm a bit too squeamish to go down the marrow donation route, but I would like to give blood again if they'd let me.


----------



## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

when your dead, your dead, you aint going to know someone has taken your eyes or heart. although im on the doner list i doubt anyone would want my lungs, my asthma is shite!!


----------



## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Tamsin W said:


> Gigantic needle in the hip. Apparently hurts more than words can convey.
> 
> Blood donation is a walk in the park in comparison. I'm off the register due to insufficient body mass now, unfortunately - I'm a bit too squeamish to go down the marrow donation route, but I would like to give blood again if they'd let me.


I've just read the link above. It says you can do it via the blood, or by the needle in the hip under GA. I'd not mind the one via the blood, but a needle in my hip 

Might see if i can give some blood though, i'm sure i have plenty to share lol.


----------



## Suno (Dec 3, 2012)

CRL said:


> when your dead, your dead, you aint going to know someone has taken your eyes or heart.


And you know this... how?
Pretty closed-minded of you.


----------



## hippymama (Jul 26, 2012)

im on the organ donar registar , I don't give blood though as I have a needle phobia


----------



## CRL (Jan 3, 2012)

Suno said:


> And you know this... how?
> Pretty closed-minded of you.


the dead part summed it all up in one


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Im another one who is registered but said no to them taking my eyes. This is only because I have a degenerative condition so my eyes be sh!t :lol:


----------



## freckles (May 8, 2008)

Suno said:


> And you know this... how?
> Pretty closed-minded of you.


I thought it was obvious... when you dead, your dead!...



Tamsin W said:


> Gigantic needle in the hip. Apparently hurts more than words can convey.


I Imagine it does hurt, but I bet it doesn't hurt half as much as seeing a loved one dying as they need a donor...

I would give blood, but living in Spain (as a brit) Im not allowed too! 
but they can have any of my organs, when Im gone, im gone,


----------



## Angie2011 (Feb 2, 2011)

CRL said:


> because (correct me if im wrong) the law states that even if someone is on the organ doner list to give most/all body parts and a close family member raises an issue with it then they cant legally use those body parts, no matter how good they are.
> that is why there is a shortage, because some family members are extremely selfish and dont want their loved one going to help others, they want them whole, in a hole in the ground, or burnt to a crisp in a vase.


Maybe hun some people that hear of a sudden death of a loved one that they are in such shock and heartbroken by the news and are so devastated that they can't think strait. They may not think of how their loved ones body could help someone els, (at the time) and maybe cant cope with the thought of their loved ones body being pulled to bits as a last memory. x


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Oooooh Im on the bone marrow register too it may hurt but worth it to save a life sod it I can take pain killers


----------



## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

DollyGirl08 said:


> I've just read the link above. It says you can do it via the blood, or by the needle in the hip under GA. I'd not mind the one via the blood, but a needle in my hip
> 
> Might see if i can give some blood though, i'm sure i have plenty to share lol.


Not sure if i saw correctly earlier but you plan to have a tattoo done of Sidney soon.You better hurry up with the blood donation as they won't take blood for a certain time after you have a tattoo.


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Just my personal preference. I have seen things with my eyes, made memories with my eyes, and loved all my animals in my heart, they just feel more personal to me, than say, my liver and kidneys.


You'll be dead.



Suno said:


> And you know this... how?
> Pretty closed-minded of you.


She'd be dead. Let's not get metaphysical.



CRL said:


> the dead part summed it all up in one


This ^^ Dead. That's pretty damned final.

I'm a blood donor, I have quite unusual blood so useful. I'm on the bone marrow list, so what if it hurts? It could save a life. Have my organs, my liver, my heart, my eyes, I'd rather someone could see, albeit they'd need contact lenses than not see.

I feel very strongly about this issue. I know not all organs will be viable, it's not always possible to utilise all organs, we can't always save the cute ickle kid dying of whatever, but IMO, it ought to be the law that all organs have to be donated.

I think it's utterly disgraceful that viable organs are buried or cremated and people are maybe hurt because they're asked to donate a relative's organs. Hurt feelings and upset or dead patient crossed off the donor list?


----------



## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

I am on the register for anything they can use, have been for over 35 years...
It is up to them to decide what is still good enough for another person.

If there is some memory stored in my organs, wouldn't it be lovely if someone else saw cats with the same love I felt for them when I was alive, or if my heart conveyed to them my love for them???

I believe my personality is in my soul, which will go to the rainbow bridge to be reunited with the souls of my pets, so we can go to heaven together. But if only a fraction of my love for them lingers on in my heart, or in any other part of my body, it would be such a waste if it was to be burned or eaten by worms......

Better to save another person's life and have them experience some of the love I felt. After all, it would mean that some part of me, and just maybe some of my feelings, would still be alive.....

My soul will still go to heaven, my love for my loved ones, human and animal, will still be mine, but part of me would live on, love on.....

It would be like having my cake and eating it....

Quite apart from helping someone else like I hope someone else will be able to help me if need be, who could refuse a chance to have part of you live on after death?????


----------



## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

All I can say is please please donate your organs when you die. 

My dad needs a kidney transplant and my wonderful mum is going to be a donor to save him going on the list. us kids wanted to help but he refused as he is worried it might be inherited. So both my wonderful parents will be on the operating table. It's a scary thought. 

Needing an organ can happen to us all and those we love. Please seriously consider being a donator. You don't need them when your gone but other peoples loved ones will.


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Rep for that, Jiskefet: a beautiful post.


----------



## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

cinammontoast said:


> You'll be dead.
> 
> She'd be dead. Let's not get metaphysical.
> 
> ...


People are usually grieving when someone they love dies,I also think their reaction to the death can depend very much on the circumstances in which death occurred ,people can't always be rational at times like this shock and grief are very strong emotions, I wouldn't condemn someone who is in shock and grieving for not agreeing to organ donation but I think it would be a better idea to have an opt out scheme in stead of the opt in scheme


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

A brilliant idea, Skip and I reckon this would really ease the donation crisis.


----------



## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Firedog said:


> Not sure if i saw correctly earlier but you plan to have a tattoo done of Sidney soon.You better hurry up with the blood donation as they won't take blood for a certain time after you have a tattoo.


Do you know how long after?

I haven't booked it yet anyway, so could always donate some before i have it done. Not in any rush with it.


----------



## redroses2106 (Aug 21, 2011)

it's personal choice and nobody should feel like a bad person if they do not want to donate all of thier organs or even any at all. 

I am on the donar list but in all honesty I'm only on it because I feel it's the right thing to do. I don't really want to do it, I have also said I never ever ever ever want someones organs either, this is my personal choice and I shouldn't be made to feel like it's selfish or wrong. I have a deep fear of being cut open, dead or alive. Don't ask me to explain why, I know it's irrational but it's just how I feel. I also believe if my organs start to fail for whatever reason then that's me had my time, when it's up it's up. 

also with organ donation you need to find a perfect match, and lots get rejected so it is not as cut and dry as donate an organ save a life, it's a little more complicated. 


as for blood - I would LOVE to donate blood but have a fear of needles the thought of going turns my stomache, I would accept a blood donation if I needed it though, I just wouldn't feel so weird about that as an organ donation.


feel free to shoot me down but this is my feelings on it, I am entitled to that and like I say pressure to do the right thing means I am (reluctantly) an organ donar.


----------



## Guest (Feb 12, 2013)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Do you know how long after?
> 
> I haven't booked it yet anyway, so could always donate some before i have it done. Not in any rush with it.


4 months


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

I put myself, and my son, on the organ donation register when he was about 2.

I was looking at him asleep in his cot one night, and didn't know how I would ever live without him. I would do anything and everything to keep him with me. Including taking someone elses dead childs organs.

If I would be willing to take that gift from a grieving parent, it only seemed right, to me, to be willing to give that gift back, if it came to it.

I registered us that night, because I knew, if that moment ever came that they had to ask me if I would be willing to donate his organs, I would be in no fit state to answer. I did it in the hope that they could remind me I had registered, and I would remember why.


----------



## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Do you know how long after?
> 
> I haven't booked it yet anyway, so could always donate some before i have it done. Not in any rush with it.


6 months, I think


----------



## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> I put myself, and my son, on the organ donation register when he was about 2.
> 
> I was looking at him asleep in his cot one night, and didn't know how I would ever live without him. I would do anything and everything to keep him with me. Including taking someone elses dead childs organs.
> 
> ...


Wanted to rep you for this, but need to spread some around first....


----------



## dorrit (Sep 13, 2011)

My mum carried a card for as long as I can remember she also donated blood until she became ill herself.

It seemed natural for me to carry a card and now my husband and children carry them too,
I have no belief in an afterlife, for me it is a simple as being burnt or buried.
I believe we live on in the memories and the thoughts of those who we loved and who loved us.

When my son was in nursery one of the mums was on the waiting list for a kidney. One morning she arrived at nursery with a bleeper so excited that she was high up the list , it would was really going to happpen, she was getting a new kidney ..
Then two mornings in a row her OH dropped her little boy off and we all thought that she must have got the call...
We were wrong.

She had gone into acute failure and died leaving her husband to cope with 4 children aged between 4 and 11 . He was trying to find a way to explain to the children that mummy wasnt coming home. She was just 32.

Anyone who had seen the heartbreak of those children when they realised mummy wasnt coming home would understand that donating an organ doesnt just save one life it changes the lives of an entire family.


----------



## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm on the donation list, but I've opted out of my eyes. I just feel a bit odd about that one. Until recently I also opted out of heart because I knew they had to keep it going until they harvested it. However I watched a TV programme about it a year or so ago and it put my mind at rest about it.

I think there are lots of reasons why organs aren't donated. Only certain types of death are suitable, it's horrendously difficult for the families to talk about it at the time of death, especially if the loved one has not made their wishes clear. 

I do favour an opt opt out system, but I don't think it should be compulsory, people should have a right to say what happens to their body after death.

I've never given blood because I didn't weight enough, I probably do now so I'll look into it.


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

MCWillow said:


> I put myself, and my son, on the organ donation register when he was about 2.
> 
> I was looking at him asleep in his cot one night, and didn't know how I would ever live without him. I would do anything and everything to keep him with me. Including taking someone elses dead childs organs.
> 
> ...


That's the same as me both me and the oldest two are on it and I will be adding my nearly 6 wk old at some point.

I sat down with my eldest two and explained it all that if they died they could help save lifes etc my eldest was around 6 at the time and said of
Course mum we won't need any of it will we? We will be in heaven anyway?!

They can take anything of mine (except my ovaries) but I doubt they will want my ceappy kidneys lol x


----------



## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

I do give blood aswell just need to wait till september now becayse of given birth.

I am looking into bone marrow but Im not sure it's something I can do yet


----------



## smokeybear (Oct 19, 2011)

redroses2106 said:


> as for blood - *I would LOVE to donate blood but have a fear of needles the thought of going turns my stomache, I would accept a blood donation if I needed it though,* I just wouldn't feel so weird about that as an organ donation.


Amazing how a fear of needles only affect you _donating _blood, but not _receiving _it eh?

How convenient, for you.


----------



## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

I agree that it is sad that few give blood or carry an organ donor card when so many more could do so but I also think that it is wrong to slate other people for not sharing your views. Not everyone is comfortable with the thought of death and/or donating their organs and it is not for anyone else to tell them that they are wrong.

As someone else pointed out there can be a few reasons why some choose not to and we can only respect their choice as it's exactly that.. THEIR choice. As the years go on they may find that their views naturally change anyhow or not.

I give blood and carry a donor card as I feel strongly that once I die, If I can help at least one other then I shall do so. I've ticked yes to all organs though I'm not sure how much use my eyes will be to anyone!


----------



## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

Can I just say in response to those who say that organs have to be the exact match that yes a lot do but I was very surprised that this is not the case with kidney's. my mum is a different blood group and is in fact positive and my dad negative but she is still suitable. 

If many more people donated the perfect match could be found on more occasions. Yes only certain deaths will be of any use but there is going to be a bigger chance the more that opt in.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

goodvic2 said:


> How can we be so short of donors
> 
> How can people be dying when their are perfectly good organs being burnt or buried
> 
> ...


It does not always work that way. Ten years ago when my husband died of a heart attack, I offered his organs (nobody asked). So they did whatever they had to do to stabilise things and keep him on life support. *Three hours later*, my daughter and my husband's sister were still being kept waiting at the hospital because there was nobody available to supervise the signing of a consent form.

After the terrible shock of losing him so suddenly and at such a young age (54) was that a good reason to keep them waiting around at the hospital till my daughter lost her temper and withdrew consent.

I am not at all surprised they don't have enough donors with this attitude.


----------



## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> It does not always work that way. Ten years ago when my husband died of a heart attack, I offered his organs (nobody asked). So they did whatever they had to do to stabilise things and keep him on life support. *Three hours later*, my daughter and my husband's sister were still being kept waiting at the hospital because there was nobody available to supervise the signing of a consent form.
> 
> After the terrible shock of losing him so suddenly and at such a young age (54) was that a good reason to keep them waiting around at the hospital till my daughter lost her temper and withdrew consent.
> 
> I am not at all surprised they don't have enough donors with this attitude.


Sorry to hear about your husband. Must have been a terrible ordeal and in this example the NHS were clearly disorganised

But the lack of organs is mainly down to lack of doners. I've no doubt though that they will make mistakes like they did with you


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I am a regular blood donor & am on the bone marrow register. I have opted in to the organ donor scheme, have also pledged the rest of my body for medical research & my brain is being donated for research in to Alzeheimers.

After reading so many stories of people's loved ones dying I felt that I could not refuse to join any of these schemes, if any of my family were ill I would be desperate to help save thier lives so would not want to hold on to anything that could be of benefit to others when i was dead.

It may not be popular but I do think it is selfish of people to 'not like the idea' of organ donation & refuse to be a part of it yet would be quite happy for their loved ones to be helped in this way


----------



## SammyJo (Oct 22, 2012)

I used to be against donating organs (I have no idea why, I guess its just because I didnt know anything about it)

My OH dad nearly died 2 years ago, he was desperate for a heart transplant, luckily he got one in time and is now fit and healthy. 

I would love to think that I could help someone by giving them a life when im gone


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> I am a regular blood donor & am on the bone marrow register. I have opted in to the organ donor scheme, have also pledged the rest of my body for medical research & my brain is being donated for research in to Alzeheimers.
> 
> After reading so many stories of people's loved ones dying I felt that I could not refuse to join any of these schemes, if any of my family were ill I would be desperate to help save thier lives so would not want to hold on to anything that could be of benefit to others when i was dead.
> 
> It may not be popular but I do think it is selfish of people to 'not like the idea' of organ donation & refuse to be a part of it yet would be quite happy for their loved ones to be helped in this way


Here in Wales we are moving towards presumed consent - you opt out if you don't wish to be on the register. It wouldn't be workable in any ethical sense, but my personal feeling is that if someone opts out when the new system comes in, they should be bottom of the list if they need a transplant themselves.


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> It may not be popular but I do think it is selfish of people to 'not like the idea' of organ donation & refuse to be a part of it yet would be quite happy for their loved ones to be helped in this way


I think we should have an 'opt in' system whereby if you want to share, you can receive.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> I am a regular blood donor & am on the bone marrow register. I have opted in to the organ donor scheme, have also pledged the rest of my body for medical research & my brain is being donated for research in to Alzeheimers.
> 
> After reading so many stories of people's loved ones dying I felt that I could not refuse to join any of these schemes, if any of my family were ill I would be desperate to help save thier lives so would not want to hold on to anything that could be of benefit to others when i was dead.
> 
> It may not be popular but I do think it is selfish of people to 'not like the idea' of organ donation & refuse to be a part of it yet would be quite happy for their loved ones to be helped in this way


I cannot understand why anyone would not want to donate, unless it is for religious reasons where they believe the whole lot has to go together. Those organs will only rot away or get incinerated. I think sometimes people are afraid that the medical staff are too keen to harvest the organs and might do so prematurely.

I have to say though that I would not donate anything to a stranger while I am still living, like you say bone marrow or a kidney. I would do it for a loved one, but not for a stranger.



myshkin said:


> Here in Wales we are moving towards presumed consent - you opt out if you don't wish to be on the register. It wouldn't be workable in any ethical sense, but my personal feeling is that if someone opts out when the new system comes in, they should be bottom of the list if they need a transplant themselves.


That is an excellent idea. And trust Wales to be the first to come up with a sensible solution.


----------



## Tamsin W (Sep 18, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> I think we should have an 'opt in' system whereby if you want to share, you can receive.


I agree with this to some extent, but children would definitely need to be exempted from such a scheme - as they'd require parental consent to act as donors. God forbid a child is denied a kidney transplant because their parent(s) don't want them listed on the donor register!


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Tamsin W said:


> I agree with this to some extent, but children would definitely need to be exempted from such a scheme - as they'd require parental consent to act as donors. God forbid a child is denied a kidney transplant because their parent(s) don't want them listed on the donor register!


Many a JW child has been refused blood because the parents won't consent. I don't believe a parent's religious beliefs should put a child's life at risk, but it happens all the time.


----------



## gem88 (Jun 2, 2012)

im on the donor list, have been since i was 16. hubby is too.
i've never given blood but coz i have to wait for a year after having a tattoo and not thinking have managed to have one for the last 3 years i havent yet  i will be able to come june though so will start then, should be interesting as im terrfifed of injections/needles (dont ask me why tattoos dont bother me as i have no idea lol)


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Tamsin W said:


> I agree with this to some extent, but children would definitely need to be exempted from such a scheme - as they'd require parental consent to act as donors. God forbid a child is denied a kidney transplant because their parent(s) don't want them listed on the donor register!


They are aiming for "soft" opt-out, where the views of the relatives would be sought. Not sure if I agree with that to be honest, my parents' views on this are very different to mine, and as an adult, I don't see why they should get to deny my expressed wishes.

I can't find any information on how it would work for children, but the rules for those under the age of consent have always taken that into account, I can't imagine how that would change.

But in the case of parents who don't want their children on the donor register, surely the reason for this would mean they wouldn't want their children to receive a transplant also?


----------



## Tamsin W (Sep 18, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Many a JW child has been refused blood because the parents won't consent. I don't believe a parent's religious beliefs should put a child's life at risk, but it happens all the time.


I fundamentally disagree with this as well - if they're old enough to give reasoned consent on their own behalf, then fair enough.

I'm sure I remember reading something about a woman who was court ordered to take her child for chemotherapy after running away to treat his Leukemia or similar 'homeopathically' (good luck with that), and can't understand why a life-saving transfusion should be treated any differently solely based on parental religious beliefs. Have to wonder how many have slipped through the net due to lack of medical alert bracelet or documentation too - would be interested to know how parents react in a situation such as this (you'd think that the relief that their child was still alive would outweigh any religious indignation, but maybe not).


----------



## Tamsin W (Sep 18, 2012)

myshkin said:


> But in the case of parents who don't want their children on the donor register, surely the reason for this would mean they wouldn't want their children to receive a transplant also?


If the decision is based on religious grounds, then probably - but I imagine that at least a moderate number just 'don't like the sound of it'. In these cases, I imagine they'd be more than happy were their child on the receiving end of a donation. Entirely speculative though!


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Tamsin W said:


> I fundamentally disagree with this as well - if they're old enough to give reasoned consent on their own behalf, then fair enough.
> 
> I'm sure I remember reading something about a woman who was court ordered to take her child for chemotherapy after running away to treat his Leukemia or similar 'homeopathically' (good luck with that), and can't understand why a life-saving transfusion should be treated any differently solely based on parental religious beliefs. Have to wonder how many have slipped through the net due to lack of medical alert bracelet or documentation too - would be interested to know how parents react in a situation such as this (you'd think that the relief that their child was still alive would outweigh any religious indignation, but maybe not).


I think it all depends on just how deep those religious beliefs go. Some religions tend to follow every word in the Bible and it expressly forbids the eating of blood. They make no distinction between eating and transfusing. My opinion is that they can decide for themselves, but they should not be allowed to decide for their children even if it is for religious ideals.


----------



## Tamsin W (Sep 18, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I think it all depends on just how deep those religious beliefs go. Some religions tend to follow every word in the Bible and it expressly forbids the eating of blood. They make no distinction between eating and transfusing. My opinion is that they can decide for themselves, but they should not be allowed to decide for their children even if it is for religious ideals.


Interesting read:

Transfusing a Jehovah's Witness during surgery

Particularly this paragraph at the end:



> Addendum: I have researched this issue and the legal implications associated with blood transfusions in Jehovah's Witness patients. The advice is that "medical providers should take care that each patient presenting as one of Jehovah's Witnesses has ample opportunity to express their personal preferences of treatment outside the presence of any other member of the faith, including close family members." And that is exactly what I did.


It seems unfortunate that they make a point of extending this courtesy to adults that might be influenced by other adults in the same faith, but the same consideration can't legally be given for children (particularly older children who understand the ramifications but who still aren't deemed old enough to give consent for themselves).

If adults are making this informed decision for themselves, they've chosen to opt out, that's their prerogative - but I definitely agree that this isn't a choice they should be at liberty to make for their children.


----------



## ginge2804 (Nov 5, 2011)

I agree with this, and do feel really strongly about it!

Im on the donor list, and im sure its true that if a close family said so when I did, then my organs wouldn't be used?

This is something that really causes arguments between us, because he says he doesn't want me to donate organs when I did because he 'doesn't want to be burying me in pieces' to which I keep telling him, ill be sown back up so you would never know!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Tamsin W said:


> If the decision is based on religious grounds, then probably - but I imagine that at least a moderate number just 'don't like the sound of it'. In these cases, I imagine they'd be more than happy were their child on the receiving end of a donation. Entirely speculative though!


I agree that many might opt out for "don't like the sound of it" reasons, I'd sort of hope that they'd question their own feeble reasoning if it affected their child's chances, however, I fear I may be over-estimating the human race there!
To be honest, you've raised a valid point, and it's precisely these sorts of issues that I had in mind when I said that although I like the idea, it wouldn't be ethically workable.



Tamsin W said:


> Interesting read:
> 
> Transfusing a Jehovah's Witness during surgery
> 
> If adults are making this informed decision for themselves, they've chosen to opt out, that's their prerogative - but I definitely agree that this isn't a choice they should be at liberty to make for their children.


If a child were denied life-saving surgery by its parents on religious grounds, the medical team responsible for the child's care can go against the parents' wishes - they would then need to justify their actions of course, but saving a child's life is justifiable by any legal/professional standards.


----------



## Wiz201 (Jun 13, 2012)

Tamsin W said:


> Gigantic needle in the hip. Apparently hurts more than words can convey.
> 
> Blood donation is a walk in the park in comparison. I'm off the register due to insufficient body mass now, unfortunately - I'm a bit too squeamish to go down the marrow donation route, but I would like to give blood again if they'd let me.


they do it under general anaesthetic don't they? I saw a kid going through that for her sister and they put her to sleep.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Call me selfish but i'm not on any donor register. I don't donate blood and never would.
I'm not sure myself why i feel like this, but the very thought of either myself having someone else's organs or them having mine gives me the creeps.*


----------



## Tamsin W (Sep 18, 2012)

Wiz201 said:


> they do it under general anaesthetic don't they? I saw a kid going through that for her sister and they put her to sleep.


The only person I know who's done it was under local - and apparently (as I understand it), the local anaesthetic only affects the surrounding tissue, as opposed to the bone itself. I was always under the impression that local was standard for adults, but as general is apparently an option I imagine it would be a much less unpleasant experience!



JANICE199 said:


> *Call me selfish but i'm not on any donor register. I don't donate blood and never would.
> I'm not sure myself why i feel like this, but the very thought of either myself having someone else's organs or them having mine gives me the creeps.*


I could be wrong of course, but I think you'd probably feel differently if put in a situation whereby your options were "accept a donor organ" or "die".


----------



## Goblin (Jun 21, 2011)

Been an organ donor for years. Should be worth noting that "donate anything", at least when I looked into it 20 years ago, meant your body could be used for medical research. Heard one story about a family who didn't have access to the body for a couple of years. Not something I would want to put my relatives through so never clicked that box.


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm on the list whatever they can use they're welcome to. But there's very few times they can use them it has to be a car crash or something where they can preserve the organs pretty quickly. 

I tried donating blood but my veins are terrible and they couldn't get enough out.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Tamsin W said:


> T
> 
> I could be wrong of course, but I think you'd probably feel differently if put in a situation whereby your options were "accept a donor organ" or "die".


*You could be right.But i won't change my mind until i'm in that situation.*


----------



## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm not an organ donor.

I have a few reasons, firstly I believe in God and I'm religious. If I became in need of an organ myself I would see it as the will of God, and I don't think it's mans place to fiddle with that. Also, in my religion the human body is viewed as inviolable so taking major parts out of it would not be permissible. 

From a personal point of view (I haven't always been religious) I'm uneasy about trusting doctors to make fair choices about my own care if they know my death could benefit multiple people. 

I've always struggled with minor medical procedures such as blood tests and the idea of such an intrusive procedure makes me uneasy. Before anyone says 'you'll be dead' I believe the soul lives on after the death of the physical body and some procedures actually have to be done while you're technically still alive.

Lots of organs need to be taken quickly, after my death I want my family to be able to grieve how they feel appropriate, not under medical time constraints. Also, I know if I visited a relative at the chapel of rest knowing they had their eyes/heart/etc removed I'd feel they weren't all there, and that would upset me. I don't want that feeling for my family.

Morally, I'm not comfortable with the organ donation priority system. If I knew my organs were going to children rather than any old addict it would sit better with me.

I recently registered at a new Dr's surgery and had to fill in the section on whether I wanted to join the donor register at the same time. To my utter horror I received a letter a couple of months later thanking me for joining the register as a donor who was willing to donate any part of my body! I've had the situation amended now (admin error, apparently) but my feelings and anxiety on receiving the letter make me sure that not donating is the right choice for me at the moment.


----------



## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

I am a donor - and have given blood 

I will not make others feel guilty for not doing so!! thats just not fair, my beliefs or lack of are mine - and yours are yours x


----------



## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Do you know how long after?
> 
> I haven't booked it yet anyway, so could always donate some before i have it done. Not in any rush with it.


I think it is a year or that might be possibly after having a baby.


----------



## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

I have to admit i wouldn't want to be a donor if i couldn't decide before hand where my organs were going.I would be happy for someone with a long term conditon to have them but not someone that has polluted their body with drink and drugs for years.A child or a mother to young children would be my first choice.


----------



## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

When I go I leave only the memories and view people had of me (obviously they are all going to think I was awesome and nobody else could hold a candle to me but that's their personal opinion). Everything else will begin to rot and decay becuase the life, my life, has gone from the body I occupied - the body has ceased to be living. If they can open me up and find anything of use in their then they are welcome to it - except if they are planning on making burgers and don't have any horses to hand.

My heart is a muscle, but I give my heart through my mind.
My lungs are the bellows that breath life into what I do and may they do the same for someone who needs them when I am gone.
I hope my eyes will help someone see their loved ones again.


Kidneys and liver - if the person who requires mine does so due to abuse through alcohol or any other kind of wreckless lifestyle then I seriously object to them being used to help those.


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Grace_Lily said:


> I'm not an organ donor.
> 
> I have a few reasons, firstly I believe in God and I'm religious.
> 
> From a personal point of view (I haven't always been religious) I'm uneasy about trusting doctors to make fair choices about my own care if they know my death could benefit multiple people.


What religion, may I ask? Being Catholic, I don't recall anywhere in the bible saying the body must remain whole for burial.

Seriously, you really think that doctors will encorage your family to turn off life support in order to save the people on a waiting list? Interesting.

And if you needed a donor organ, would you accept it or die because it's the 'will of God'?


----------



## DollyGirl08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Why is that? Is it in case you get infection from the tattoo or something?


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Grace_Lily said:


> I'm not an organ donor.
> 
> I have a few reasons, firstly I believe in God and I'm religious. If I became in need of an organ myself I would see it as the will of God, and I don't think it's mans place to fiddle with that. Also, in my religion the human body is viewed as inviolable so taking major parts out of it would not be permissible.
> 
> ...


I personally don't have a problem with this viewpoint, I don't agree with your reasoning, but presumably if your religious and moral views are against transplantation, you wouldn't accept one yourself, therefore you aren't expecting something you are unwilling to give yourself.

It is those who would willingly take a transplant but aren't prepared to be on the register I have issues with.


----------



## Firedog (Oct 19, 2011)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Why is that? Is it in case you get infection from the tattoo or something?


Probably,it seems forever since i had a tattoo.


----------



## simplysardonic (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm on the organ donor list, not sure if anyone would want my eyes though, my eyesight is appalling 

I'm not allowed to give blood as I'm anaemic, but could I give bone marrow if I chose to?


----------



## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

cinammontoast said:


> What religion, may I ask? Being Catholic, I don't recall anywhere in the bible saying the body must remain whole for burial.
> 
> Seriously, you really think that doctors will encorage your family to turn off life support in order to save the people on a waiting list? Interesting.
> 
> And if you needed a donor organ, would you accept it or die because it's the 'will of God'?


I'm not Catholic.

I didn't say they would encourage them, but I can imagine a Doctor weighing up the benefits and that may affect my care; benefit one person by saving them, or benefit multiple people if this person passes away. I'm going to be brutally honest here and say that logically I can totally understand the latter theory. Benefiting multiple people instead of just one seems like common sense. If I can think that way who is to say a Doctor will not?

No, I definitely would not accept an organ donation myself for the same reason.


----------



## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

myshkin said:


> I personally don't have a problem with this viewpoint, I don't agree with your reasoning, but presumably if your religious and moral views are against transplantation, you wouldn't accept one yourself, therefore you aren't expecting something you are unwilling to give yourself.
> 
> It is those who would willingly take a transplant but aren't prepared to be on the register I have issues with.


Correct, I wouldn't accept an organ donation. I agree with you on the last sentence, to accept but not be willing to give is a bit selfish.


----------



## MoggyBaby (Mar 8, 2011)

Firedog said:


> I have to admit i wouldn't want to be a donor if i couldn't decide before hand where my organs were going.I would be happy for someone with a long term conditon to have them but not someone that has polluted their body with drink and drugs for years.A child or a mother to young children would be my first choice.


EXACTLY my sentiments!!!

I wouldn't care what they take when I am gone - if they can use it, then they can have it!!!!

BUT...........

I would want my bits and bobs to go to mothers, children, young adults even old adults who have, to some degree, tried to look after themselves and find themselves in need through no fault of their own.

I don't want my lungs going to a 60+ a day smoker or my liver going into a modern day George Best. I have looked after my internal organs and I want them to go to someone who will do the same.

People will say this is not fair, these smokers and drinkers may use my organs to lead a better life... Well, with all due respect, we all know excessive smoking & drinking damages your body. These recipients will have been WELL warned by their GP's of the outcome of their lifestyle. If being told their liver or lungs is on its last legs wasn't enough to stop them in their tracks then getting new spare parts is not really going to do it either.


----------



## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

The lack of organs is not only down to the lack of donors but to the silent killers such as Hepatitis etc which make organ donation impossible and is much more prevalent nowadays than you imagine.


----------



## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

MoggyBaby said:


> EXACTLY my sentiments!!!
> 
> I wouldn't care what they take when I am gone - if they can use it, then they can have it!!!!
> 
> ...


George Best was a prime example of this abuse and waste of good organs!


----------



## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

cinammontoast said:


> What religion, may I ask? Being Catholic, I don't recall anywhere in the bible saying the body must remain whole for burial.
> 
> Seriously, you really think that doctors will encorage your family to turn off life support in order to save the people on a waiting list? Interesting.
> 
> And if you needed a donor organ, would you accept it or die because it's the 'will of God'?


Jehovahs Witnesses, Christian Scientists, and the Shinto faith,
JW are allowed to refuse to donations due to the beliefs surrounding the transfusion of blood, some religions believe that if the body is not whole then the soul is not.

I think its very narrow minded that they should be lambasted for this just because as someone does not have the same beliefs that you carry x

no one needs to justify why they dont, its their choice and so be it x


----------



## hutch6 (May 9, 2008)

912142 said:


> George Best was a prime example of this abuse and waste of good organs!


I thought that before he even had the transplant


----------



## 912142 (Mar 28, 2011)

hutch6 said:


> I thought that before he even had the transplant


Did he not have 2 liver transplants and it was the same old story, I've learned my lesson blah blah blah.


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> Jehovahs Witnesses, Christian Scientists, and the Shinto faith,
> JW are allowed to refuse to donations due to the beliefs surrounding the transfusion of blood, some religions believe that if the body is not whole then the soul is not.
> 
> I think its very narrow minded that they should be lambasted for this just because as someone does not have the same beliefs that you carry x
> ...


I have not lambasted anyone or asked anyone to justify their choices. I am interested, fierce about this issue, but you can't force people. Don't imagine that I am trying to enforce it! I do think it's an utter waste to bury perfectly good organs.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Grace_Lily said:


> I'm not an organ donor.
> 
> I have a few reasons, firstly I believe in God and I'm religious. If I became in need of an organ myself I would see it as the will of God, and I don't think it's mans place to fiddle with that. Also, in my religion the human body is viewed as inviolable so taking major parts out of it would not be permissible.
> 
> ...


I too am religious, but I would say if God did not want us to use the knowledge, why would He allow us to have it? To say something is the will of God to me, is like saying "I want the organ grinder not the monkey". I say that with all due respect, please believe, but I find it rather arrogant to be insisting that whether someone lives or dies is up to God Himself.

Isn't that why he gave us the ability to do these things?

With cloning techniques, they should soon be able to clone a person's organs and replace whatever they need. We will each have a storeroom of spare parts, perfect matches just waiting to use if needed.


----------



## Guest (Feb 12, 2013)

Firedog said:


> I think it is a year or that might be possibly after having a baby.


heres the info..


> You should not give blood if:
> 
> you have had an ear piercing or body piercing in the last four months
> 
> you have had a tattoo in the last four months


Blood donation (Giving blood) - Who can donate - NHS Choices


----------



## Guest (Feb 12, 2013)

DollyGirl08 said:


> Why is that? Is it in case you get infection from the tattoo or something?


because you can contract diseases and illnesses via tattoo needles (very rare) but possible if hygiene practices aren't followed , or you happen to go to unlicensed premises.


----------



## Grace_Lily (Nov 28, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> I too am religious, but I would say if God did not want us to use the knowledge, why would He allow us to have it? To say something is the will of God to me, is like saying "I want the organ grinder not the monkey". I say that with all due respect, please believe, but I find it rather arrogant to be insisting that whether someone lives or dies is up to God Himself.
> 
> Isn't that why he gave us the ability to do these things?
> 
> With cloning techniques, they should soon be able to clone a person's organs and replace whatever they need. We will each have a storeroom of spare parts, perfect matches just waiting to use if needed.


Mmm I can understand your viewpoint, but for me that isn't a convincing argument. God allows us to do lots of things which are sinful, but it doesn't mean that we should do them. We all have the means to commit major sins, but again resisting those things even though we can do them if we please is what makes us believers and followers of a religion.


----------



## we love bsh's (Mar 28, 2011)

I have both views on this..once im dead they can do what/take what they like i dont mind it doesnt bother me.

..but if it was one of my children i simply couldnt bare the thought of my baby been cut up,NO WAY.

I found it really hard that the docs wanted to take tissue samples of the baby i lost to cot death in 07.I let them as it was to help research in cot death,they already had him opened up anyway for the postmortem(sp) didnt even get a say if i wanted that done or not.And it breakes my heart to think of my 4 month old baby cut open on some table.I dont think about it much.

Each to their own i say.


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

My friend is Jehovahs Witness and fairly strict she says her church elders say organ donation and receiving organs is fine just not blood donation . I think they count it something like eating bled meat is fine but raw wouldn't be.

The Bible specifically says blood but I don't think it mentions flesh. Jesus was a healer I don't think he would have an issue with it.

I would hate for my organs to go to someone who had knowingly destroyed theirs, lungs to a smoker etc. But unless they're famous they tend to be quite far down on the waiting lists.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

we love bsh's said:


> I have both views on this..once im dead they can do what/take what they like i dont mind it doesnt bother me.
> 
> ..but if it was one of my children i simply couldnt bare the thought of my baby been cut up,NO WAY.
> 
> ...


I am sorry for your loss. Just wanted to say it is the law that a post mortem be carried out on any sudden death, so you would not have been asked. I think out of courtesy they should explain that.


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

I was just saying this to Nicky...considering what I've been through with the alcoholism etc and other things I've done to my body over the years it's quite likely something will fail at some point. My opinion? Bloody tough. I wouldn't, for many reasons, accept an organ anyway, but for someone like me, that's damaged their own body, it doesn't sit well with me that we'd be on the transplant list unless right at the bottom. It might sound harsh, but there are many, many more deserving cases than idiots like myself that put themselves in the place of someone with a genuine, crippling illness and then think we deserve the same consideration.

I think there should be some sort of priority, though I guess you can't put a price on a life so it wouldn't morally work


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

JANICE199 said:


> *Call me selfish but i'm not on any donor register. I don't donate blood and never would.
> I'm not sure myself why i feel like this, but the very thought of either myself having someone else's organs or them having mine gives me the creeps.*


I hope if you're ever in need of a blood transfusion during surgery you let them know your feelings about it being 'creepy'.


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Grace_Lily said:


> I didn't say they would encourage them, but I can imagine a Doctor weighing up the benefits and that may affect my care; benefit one person by saving them, or benefit multiple people if this person passes away. I'm going to be brutally honest here and say that logically I can totally understand the latter theory. Benefiting multiple people instead of just one seems like common sense. If I can think that way who is to say a Doctor will not?


I don't think you quite understand how hard it is to even find a donor match, the odds of a doctor even being in the position where he would have to even think that in crossing are minimal at best. They don't just pull the plug, grab out whatever they can take then stick it right into another person, most people who die will not be a match for people needing organs or will be too far away anyway.


----------



## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Flamingoes said:


> I think there should be some sort of priority, though I guess you can't put a price on a life so it wouldn't morally work


There are priorities though, the young are prioritised over the old (longer life expectancy for the organ), the healthy over the willfully unhealthy etc.

I think dramatising about 'all them scrotes who booze it up and smoke dem **** getting my liver when I pop my clogs' is daily mail land.


----------



## Lulus mum (Feb 14, 2011)

There was a couple on the Good Morning show today
whose baby girl is desperate for a new heart.
She has been fitted with a device which shocks her heart of it goes into a faulty rythym


Doctors have tried everything and time is fast running out.
It was heartbreaking to see the baby -photos from only last Saturday shows her sitting up in her hospital cot with her family,

She then took a turn for the worse -had to have her heart shocked 5 times and is now in an induced coma wired up to all kinds of monitors.
It is her birthday tomorrow , she will be 2.
The anguish on that couples faces was terrible to see.

When I go they can take any bits of me that they want.
The thing that bothers me is the fact that even if you have an organ donor card your relatives can still oppose donation-that makes no sense to me.

It was good that the Good Morning programme emphasized people to talk to their family so that their wishes are respected.

To restore life to someone who is going to die and to give their family back their mum ,dad or child-that to me is just the greatest thing we can do.
I know not everyone feels like me but its just the way I feel.
Maureen


----------



## Flamingoes (Dec 8, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> There are priorities though, the young are prioritised over the old (longer life expectancy for the organ), the healthy over the willfully unhealthy etc.
> 
> I think dramatising about 'all them scrotes who booze it up and smoke dem **** getting my liver when I pop my clogs' is daily mail land.


I was just speaking from my own point of view, as I say, I wouldn't take an organ, not least because mine wouldn't be good enough to give, but for me personally I'd feel very awkward if I was of a mind to accept an organ considering any damage I'd done I'd done to myself.

I wasn't really aware there was those sort of guidelines in place but I'm very glad of it.


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

No, I'm not on a doner list, and never will allow myself to be. I think its outrageous that they want to make it mandatory to be on it, your dictated to enough whilst your alive, their not bloody doing it when I'm dead too. It's _my_ body, and I want it to stay whole. Same goes for my family and relatives. I wouldn't feel like they'd been buried properly with parts missing. The thought of them lying on some cold slab cut open is horrific. Loosing someone you cherish is hard enough without adding that too it. No, just no. Sorry if that seems wrong, but its how I feel about it.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> No, I'm not on a doner list, and never will allow myself to be. *I think its outrageous that they want to make it mandatory to be on it, *your dictated to enough whilst your alive, their not bloody doing it when I'm dead too. It's _my_ body, and I want it to stay whole. Same goes for my family and relatives. I wouldn't feel like they'd been buried properly with parts missing. The thought of them lying on some cold slab cut open is horrific. Loosing someone you cherish is hard enough without adding that too it. No, just no. Sorry if that seems wrong, but its how I feel about it.


They don't. They want to make it so that if you don't wish to donate, you opt out. That does *not* make it mandatory to be a donor.


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Always been on the organ donor register always will be. At one point I said they couldn't have my eyes - because it made me feel squeamish - but, hey - I'll be dead I won't know! And the chances of dying of something that means my organs won't be old and shrivelled (as I also intend living to 99) are small. But if my knackered old body can help, then take the lot. I'd rather that than the worms ate it all (though I think I'd make good fertiliser),

I'd love to give blood, especially as I'm a rare blood group AB- (but I have a blood condition that means I can't) boo hoo.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> No, I'm not on a doner list, and never will allow myself to be. I think its outrageous that they want to make it mandatory to be on it, your dictated to enough whilst your alive, their not bloody doing it when I'm dead too. It's _my_ body, and I want it to stay whole. Same goes for my family and relatives. I wouldn't feel like they'd been buried properly with parts missing. The thought of them lying on some cold slab cut open is horrific. Loosing someone you cherish is hard enough without adding that too it. No, just no. Sorry if that seems wrong, but its how I feel about it.


But you and your body won't stay whole, will you? You will be separated by decomposition, worms and rats or you will all go up in flames. It is sheer romanticism to imagine you will all stay together.

And if you die suddenly, you will be cut open anyway for the post mortem, all your organs will be removed and weighed before being bagged up and re-inserted.

I would far rather they gave life to someone else.


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

myshkin said:


> They don't. They want to make it so that if you don't wish to donate, you opt out. That does *not* make it mandatory to be a donor.


If you have to opt out of something that means your in it in the first place. Seeing as I have given no consent to it, they will have just added it without asking, ie you will be put on it like it or not, therefore making it mandatory. With something like this you should not be made to opt out, you should be asked if you want to opt in.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> If you have to opt out of something that means your in it in the first place. Seeing as I have given no consent to it, they will have just added it without asking, ie you will be put on it like it or not, therefore making it mandatory. With something like this you should not be made to opt out, you should be asked if you want to opt in.


I'm afraid your definition of mandatory is too far from reality for us to have any sensible discussion about it.


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> If you have to opt out of something that means your in it in the first place. Seeing as I have given no consent to it, they will have just added it without asking, ie you will be put on it like it or not, therefore making it mandatory. With something like this you should not be made to opt out, you should be asked if you want to opt in.


Yes they want to harvest everyone's organs so our reptilian overlords can create a clone army :yesnod:.

Definition of mandatory
adjective
required by law or mandate; compulsory:
wearing helmets was made mandatory for pedal cyclists

Required is very different from opt out


----------



## xbaileyboox (Apr 26, 2012)

Would you allow your childrens organs to be donated if "god forbid!!" Anything happened? 

I couldn't, I don't know why. I know it's selfish of me.


----------



## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Tamsin W said:


> To be fair, of all deaths on any given day, only a small number of organs will actually be viable for donation at all - too old, overweight, smokers, pre-existing conditions, too long after time of death (particularly in the case of extremely 'time sensitive' organs). Then you have to take into consideration the number of people who haven't opted out, but haven't opted in either - so the NHS have to expend time and effort obtaining consent from the families, by which time it may be too late (and the shock of suddenly being informed that a loved one has died might also affect their answer).
> 
> I do have a donor card, but say they were to try and allocate, for example, my lungs to someone - I've been a non-smoker for eight months, but I was a smoker prior to that for about 15 years. Chances are my lungs are not in tip-top condition now - and the likelihood that anyone with CF (or any other lung condition necessitating a transplant) would actually want them are slim to none.
> 
> ...


Surely all of these reasons above just show important it is that as many people as possible are on the register, to open up the pool they can fish from so to speak

I have been on the register from as soon as as a child I understood what it meant and spoke to my mum about it
They can take whatever they fancy and I really hope something is of use. 
I gave blood regularly until I was put on medication that means I can't, I will do it again if/when I come off the medication.

I would prefer an opt out system, people who do not want to donate for religious reasons etc, fine, but too many just never think about it all. 
Bringing in an opt out would force people to think about it more and make decisions and I'm pretty sure it would save lives


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

Yes I could allow my children's organs to be used. Knowing the heart ache I was suffering would be enough to help me help another person never, ever have to feel that themselves.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

xbaileyboox said:


> Would you allow your childrens organs to be donated if "god forbid!!" Anything happened?
> 
> I couldn't, I don't know why. I know it's selfish of me.


I would. To me, it is just an empty shell. The person is no longer there. I have never once visited my husband's grave, nor my mother's nor my father's. Nor by dear brother's. I like to nose around graveyards, yes, for the curiosity value, but it means nothing.

Organ donation is no different to any other sort of recycling.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

myshkin said:


> I personally don't have a problem with this viewpoint, I don't agree with your reasoning, but presumably if your religious and moral views are against transplantation, you wouldn't accept one yourself, therefore you aren't expecting something you are unwilling to give yourself.
> 
> It is those who would willingly take a transplant but aren't prepared to be on the register I have issues with.


*Have you ever stopped to think, this may be due to fear?.FACT, nobody knows what or how they will react when or if the times comes*.


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

xbaileyboox said:


> Would you allow your childrens organs to be donated if "god forbid!!" Anything happened?
> 
> I couldn't, I don't know why. I know it's selfish of me.


I absolutely could donate my childs organs.

It was thinking about how I would feel if my child needed to _receive _a donor organ, that made up my mind.

If your child needed a new organ, would you allow them to receive one?


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Have you ever stopped to think, this may be due to fear?.FACT, nobody knows what or how they will react when or if the times comes*.


I've got a fair idea how I'll react.....I won't react at all, I'll be dead.
I can understand that it could be due to fear, but I still feel that you shouldn't expect to receive a transplant if you refuse to donate, for whatever reason.


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

newfiesmum said:


> I would. To me, it is just an empty shell. The person is no longer there. I have never once visited my husband's grave, nor my mother's nor my father's. Nor by dear brother's. I like to nose around graveyards, yes, for the curiosity value, but it means nothing.
> 
> Organ donation is no different to any other sort of recycling.


Simple but true.

I don't visit my mum's grave either - it's too far away to begin with but it also make me sad, not her death - that's obvious, but my dad would only allow her name and dates on it, nothing else, and it seems so impersonal. I've made hubby promise SOMETHING will go on it, IF I have one, something like 'she was a right mad b*itch.' The best grave-plaque I ever saw was - 'John ??, he was a good man.' that was enough.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

myshkin said:


> I've got a fair idea how I'll react.....I won't react at all, I'll be dead.
> I can understand that it could be due to fear, but I still feel that you shouldn't expect to receive a transplant if you refuse to donate, for whatever reason.


*In all honesty i don't expect anything. But i know i won't be made to feel guilty either way.*


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

I would donate my childs rgans but I dont regard the body as a shell after death it is still very important and housed the childs soul, but the soul has gone and that is the part that shall truly be missed. I could not allow another family or several families to lose their children when my childs death culd have prevented it. (I hope that makes sense) x


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

This subject is extremely uncomfortable. It seems like tempting fate to me.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> This subject is extremely uncomfortable. It seems like tempting fate to me.


You don't have to read the thread if it upsets you so much.

Perhaps your discomfort explains your fairly incoherent contributions?


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

I don't normally feel like this about a subject. Not many topics make me squirm, I can deal with most things, hunting, death, sex, rape, murder, disasters, crime etc but not this. It feels like its tempting the hand of fate to deal something out to prove if what your saying is true. It's almost like its saying "so this is what you said? lets see if it still stands now- go on, I dare ya". I don't believe in tempting fate like that, in case maybe, just maybe, it decides to take you up on it.

Yes, it probably does.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> This subject is extremely uncomfortable. It seems like tempting fate to me.


Are you one of those people who would refrain from making a will in case it draws the attention of the Grim Reaper?


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

[Puts head on desk, takes deep breath, then goes outside for a luvverly ***]


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> No, I don't normally feel like this about a subject. Not many topics make me squirm, I can deal with most things, hunting, death, sex, rape, murder, disasters, crime etc but not this. It feels like its tempting the hand of fate to deal something out to prove if what your saying is true. It's almost like its saying "so this is what you said? lets see if it still stands now- go on, I dare ya". I don't believe in tempting fate like that, in case maybe, just maybe, it decides to take you up on it.


I don't actually know what any of this is meant to mean 

Perhaps because I don't believe in fate or any other imaginary forces ruling my life.


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> But you and your body won't stay whole, will you? You will be separated by decomposition, worms and rats or you will all go up in flames. It is sheer romanticism to imagine you will all stay together.


Yes, but I can't do anything about that. I can however choose not to be cut open and split up by some surgeon.



newfiesmum said:


> Are you one of those people who would refrain from making a will in case it draws the attention of the Grim Reaper?


Yes I am. I wouldn't make one of those until I was at least 60-70.



myshkin said:


> I don't actually know what any of this is meant to mean
> 
> Perhaps because I don't believe in fate or any other imaginary forces ruling my life.


I do, and I don't believe in pushing your luck by tempting it. I'll put it simply, if you go out bungee jumping, you are putting your life in your hands, hoping that the rope holds. There is absolutely no need to do it, no one tells you to, you are simply relying on a piece of elastic to stop you going splat. So you are tempting fate by doing something so ridiculous as to put your life at risk on purpose just for fun. And people who play with matches usually end up getting burned.

(I've used bungee jumping as a point, because neither I nor any of my family would ever do it, so no risk of tempting fate by mentioning it)


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> I do, and I don't believe in pushing your luck by tempting it. I'll put it simply, if you go out bungee jumping, you are putting your life in your hands, hoping that the rope holds. There is absolutely no need to do it, no one tells you to, you are simply relying on a piece of elastic to stop you going splat. So you are tempting fate by doing something so ridiculous as to put your life at risk on purpose just for fun. And people who play with matches usually end up getting burned.
> 
> (I've used bungee jumping as a point, because neither I nor any of my family would ever do it, so no risk of tempting fate by mentioning it)


But what has that got to do with organ donation? Are you telling me that you believe that by being on the organ donor register I am somehow making my own death more likely? Because "fate" will be angry with me for even thinking about my own death and punish me by killing me?

Not often I am lost for words.


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

So if you won the lottery and had no relatives, you would be quite happy for the government to claim all your millions if you were to pop off?

Bungee jumping isn't tempting fate, is it? You know damned well it is dangerous and you could get killed, but people who do that are doing it for the thrill of the danger.

Talking about organ donation is not dangerous.


----------



## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> I do, and I don't believe in pushing your luck by tempting it. *I'll put it simply, if you go out bungee jumping*, you are putting your life in your hands, hoping that the rope holds. There is absolutely no need to do it, no one tells you to, you are simply relying on a piece of elastic to stop you going splat. So you are tempting fate by doing something so ridiculous as to put your life at risk on purpose just for fun. And people who play with matches usually end up getting burned.
> 
> (I've used bungee jumping as a point, because neither I nor any of my family would ever do it, so no risk of tempting fate by mentioning it)


right so no horse riding then (risk), no car driving then (risk), no walking (risk) no eating (choking risk) no drinking alcohol (risk) x well in this case I am soooo screwed lol !!


----------



## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

I am hoping one day they will be able to do a pancreatic graft , as my daughter has type 1 diabetes (has since age 6 now 16), and I will be there first in line (as not a full transplant) x


----------



## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> right so no horse riding then (risk), no car driving then (risk), no walking (risk) no eating (choking risk) no drinking alcohol (risk) x well in this case I am soooo screwed lol !!


In other words, if you go through life not tempting fate by actually getting out of bed, you may as well donate your organs to someone who can enjoy themselves.

Oh, hang on though - if you don't get out of bed you could get sceptic bed sores, couldn't you? Tempting fate, staying in bed.


----------



## missRV (Nov 9, 2012)

I signed a thing at my GP surgery when I was 15 saying that I gave consent to donate any part of my body. For me there's something nice about the thought of a part of me living on that little bit longer even if it is in someone else's body. 

My concern is that there is a history of cancer in my immediate family..... if the cause of death is cancer then the organs would surely be useless.


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

myshkin said:


> But what has that got to do with organ donation? Are you telling me that you believe that by being on the organ donor register I am somehow making my own death more likely? Because "fate" will be angry with me for even thinking about my own death and punish me by killing me?
> 
> Not often I am lost for words.


No not by being on the list, but saying things like "oh I don't know how I'd react until I was in that situation", well someone or something might just decide to find out.



reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> right so no horse riding then (risk), no car driving then (risk), no walking (risk) no eating (choking risk) no drinking alcohol (risk) x well in this case I am soooo screwed lol !!


No that's not what I'm saying. There's risks in everything in life, short of wrapping yourself in a bubble and never leaving your room, your potentially at risk of something. Just walking to town you could be run over by a bus. But that is just sheer bad luck and an accident, it is a damn sight different to throwing yourself thousands of feet out of the air relying only on a piece of elastic to hold you!


----------



## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

Wobbles said:


> No not by being on the list, but saying things like "oh I don't know how I'd react until I was in that situation", well someone or something might just decide to find out.
> 
> No that's not what I'm saying. There's risks in everything in life, short of wrapping yourself in a bubble and never leaving your room, your potentially at risk of something. Just walking to town you could be run over by a bus.* But that is just sheer bad luck and an accident, it is a damn sight different to throwing yourself thousands of feet out of the air relying only on a piece of elastic to hold you!*


what about full pelt gallop up a hill no saddle - dangerous but bloody fun x no way, life is for living - I like to say - cross the bridges when you get to them, but dont worry where the bridges are x and if I die doing it I will be happy and some one will get the chance of life because of it, dont be so maudlin x


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

Wobbles said:


> No not by being on the list, but saying things like "oh I don't know how I'd react until I was in that situation", well someone or *something *might just decide to find out.


Something like what exactly 



> No that's not what I'm saying. There's risks in everything in life, short of wrapping yourself in a bubble and never leaving your room, your potentially at risk of something. Just walking to town you could be run over by a bus. But that is just sheer bad luck and an accident, it is a damn sight different to throwing yourself thousands of feet out of the air relying only on a piece of elastic to hold you!


Which is also a damn sight different from being on the organ donor list!


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> what about full pelt gallop up a hill no saddle - dangerous but bloody fun x no way, life is for living - I like to say - cross the bridges when you get to them, but dont worry where the bridges are x and if I die doing it I will be happy and some one will get the chance of life because of it, dont be so maudlin x


Oh I love that - bareback gallops! Nearly crippled myself doing it once when the horse decided to shy at the same time and threw me onto a tree stump. But boy the ride was wild!  I'd do it again given 1/2 a chance.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> No not by being on the list, but saying things like "oh I don't know how I'd react until I was in that situation", well someone or something might just decide to find out.


1. I didn't say that, I said I'm pretty sure I wouldn't react at all, since I would be dead.
2. Someone or something might decide I need to die because I discussed how people (don't) react when they die. Oh-kay. Serial killer who tracks down people talking about their own death? "Fate" again?

Do you know how bonkers this sounds?


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

You really believe that somewhere there is a guy in a black cape with a scythe sitting staring at a screen watching you, just waiting for you to say or do something so he can kill you? 

People do bungee jumping because its a lot of fun. Everytime you choose to walk across a road you're taking a big risk


----------



## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

spid said:


> Oh I love that - bareback gallops! Nearly crippled myself doing it once when the horse decided to shy at the same time and threw me onto a tree stump. But boy the ride was wild!  I'd do it again given 1/2 a chance.


 war wound one upmanship sharing time then, permanent nerve damage to base of spine due to (with saddle) walking up a hill and a dog ran under Glens belly spook!!! ner ner neh nah nah  see what I did to my had with a scythe, I am lethal to myself - but just myself thank god - I always find bruises I dont even remember getting this one is my fave -
get in smiley face on my knee!!!! (dont ask why I have a camera whils I am in the bath :devil: )


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

I'll prove it, look:

I'm going to die one day, hopefully during wild, passionate lovemaking aged 99 after a nice bottle of red. And I'll die happy!

See? Nothing happ


----------



## reallyshouldnotwearjods (Nov 19, 2012)

myshkin said:


> I'll prove it, look:
> 
> I'm going to die one day, hopefully during wild, passionate lovemaking aged 99 after a nice bottle of red. And I'll die happy!
> 
> See? Nothing happ


chortle :lol:


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Your grim is on a dinner break, labour laws have really slowed them down, they miss so much these days . Mine even missed me bungee jumping which we know means you must die right after.


----------



## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

missRV said:


> I signed a thing at my GP surgery when I was 15 saying that I gave consent to donate any part of my body. For me there's something nice about the thought of a part of me living on that little bit longer even if it is in someone else's body.
> 
> My concern is that there is a history of cancer in my immediate family..... if the cause of death is cancer then the organs would surely be useless.


Cancer deaths are not suitable for donation. The donor usually has to be someone who has died in hospital on a ventilator e.g. car crash, brain haemorrhage. That's one of the reasons there is a shortage of organs, the number of deaths from suitable circumstances are quite low in relation to the number of people willing to donate.


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> Something like what exactly :confused


I don't know exactly.



myshkin said:


> 1. I didn't say that, I said I'm pretty sure I wouldn't react at all, since I would be dead.
> 2. Someone or something might decide I need to die because I discussed how people (don't) react when they die. Oh-kay. Serial killer who tracks down people talking about their own death? "Fate" again?
> 
> Do you know how bonkers this sounds?


No not react when they die, more tempting to be put at death's door.



Nicky10 said:


> You really believe that somewhere there is a guy in a black cape with a scythe sitting staring at a screen watching you, just waiting for you to say or do something so he can kill you?


Yes I don't like tempting things like that. I won't even say my pets are healthy *touch wood*, without,er, touching wood.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

[myshkin goes to look for the axe, to remove her own fingers, and therefore the temptation to type what she is dying to say right now]


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

myshkin said:


> [myshkin goes to look for the axe, to remove her own fingers, and therefore the temptation to type what *she is dying to say* right now]


:yikes:

That really is tempting fate 

Quick, throw some salt over your shoulder!!


----------



## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

I am all for organ donation. The only thing that sometimes worries me is that the doctors may "hurry me along" if I am in a coma or something and there is e.g. a politician or celebrity or similar "priority" case on the waiting list..... (i know I'm paranoid)


----------



## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

Dogless said:


> Have you tried? If you wanted to donate they'd most likely just take it with you lying down; they are well used to folk who feel faint. When I have taken it from folk who responded to an emergency donor panel call none of those who said that they would faint actually did - you might be pleasantly surprised!


Ah well, we have a job just to do blood tests...I have passed out on them 3 times, they tried to lay me down but then they cant get any blood?! My GP refuses to take it now, I have to go to our local hospital! They have even got to the point of taking it out of my hand on one occasion because it was so difficult.
Its not the blood or needle, thats the thing, its the feeling of the blood being drawn that makes me feel woozy, then as they release the elastic thing I pass out. Then I feel crappy for the rest of the day


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> Yes but doesn't mean he should be encouraged closer. I'm superstishus (can't spell it), and I believe in stuff like that. It might sound like spooky dooky boll*cks to others, but it doesn't to me, and I have no desire to offer him the chance to pop up unexpected.


If you are so superstitious as to believe that even talking about something like organ donation increases the chance of your own death, why are you so keen to contribute to this, and the other, related thread? Won't it tempt fate?


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

myshkin said:


> If you are so superstitious as to believe that even talking about something like organ donation increases the chance of your own death, why are you so keen to contribute to this, and the other, related thread? Won't it tempt fate?


I don't believe talking about it will do anything *touch wood*, just like talking about a robber won't mean your burgled next day. What I believe is that saying something like "I don't know how I'd react until I was faced with it" is not a wise thing to do.

I'll put it another way, I tell someone my cat* was 17 in 3 days, nowt wrong with it, and never seen a vet in its life. 2 days later the cat's died. Why? because I tempted fate by saying how well it was and been fine. Another one, if my car* was due an MOT tomorrow, and I said "this car is 12 years old, never failed an MOT and never needed any work. Good job too, as I don't know what I'd do if I found it did, I can't afford it, but there's nothing wrong with it, I won't be in that situation so no matter." Next day, the car fails its MOT and needs hundreds of pounds in repairs. Why? Because I jinxed it, blabbing about how it was fine and never failed. _That_ is the sort of thing I mean. And it DOES work. I made the mistake once of telling someone my gerbil was in perfect health and doing great for its age, next day it was dead. I've never spoken out loud to someone that my pets are healthy/doing well since.

* Used a car and cat because I don't actually have one!


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> I don't believe talking about it will do anything *touch wood*, just like talking about a robber won't mean your burgled next day. What I believe is that saying something like "I don't know how I'd react until I was faced with it" is not a wise thing to do.
> 
> I'll put it another way, I tell someone my cat* was 17 in 3 days, nowt wrong with it, and never seen a vet in its life. 2 days later the cat's died. Why? because I tempted fate by saying how well it was and been fine. Another one, if my car* was due an MOT tomorrow, and I said "this car is 12 years old, never failed an MOT and never needed any work. Good job too, as I don't know what I'd do if I found it did, I can't afford it, but there's nothing wrong with it, I won't be in that situation so no matter." Next day, the car fails its MOT and needs hundreds of pounds in repairs. Why? Because I jinxed it, blabbing about how it was fine and never failed. _That_ is the sort of thing I mean. And it DOES work. I made the mistake once of telling someone my gerbil was in perfect health and doing great for its age, next day it was dead. I've never spoken out loud to someone that my pets are healthy/doing well since.
> 
> * Used a car and cat because I don't actually have one!


I said that I'd never broken a bone in my body the day before I broke the first of many bones over the years. I don't believe that fate decided to teach me a lesson for my casual boast but that I had an accident.

Do I believe in fate? Yes in a way; in terms of things always coming good in the end, karma etc. Things do happen for a reason in life although you may not see it at the time BUT I don't see it as some sort of malevolent force monitoring the airwaves for the chance to ruin folks' lives. Not at all.


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Well, what you believe depends how many times life's thrown you a curveball and screwed you over just when things were going ok, I suppose. If your the sort that always finds things easy and come up smelling of roses, you probably won't be half as concerned as someone who's a born loser that no matter what they touch turns to dust, so don't really want to risk chancing even more bad luck.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> I don't believe talking about it will do anything *touch wood*, just like talking about a robber won't mean your burgled next day. What I believe is that saying something like "I don't know how I'd react until I was faced with it" is not a wise thing to do.
> 
> I'll put it another way, I tell someone my cat* was 17 in 3 days, nowt wrong with it, and never seen a vet in its life. 2 days later the cat's died. Why? because I tempted fate by saying how well it was and been fine. Another one, if my car* was due an MOT tomorrow, and I said "this car is 12 years old, never failed an MOT and never needed any work. Good job too, as I don't know what I'd do if I found it did, I can't afford it, but there's nothing wrong with it, I won't be in that situation so no matter." Next day, the car fails its MOT and needs hundreds of pounds in repairs. Why? Because I jinxed it, blabbing about how it was fine and never failed. _That_ is the sort of thing I mean. And it DOES work. I made the mistake once of telling someone my gerbil was in perfect health and doing great for its age, next day it was dead. I've never spoken out loud to someone that my pets are healthy/doing well since.
> 
> * Used a car and cat because I don't actually have one!


I remain in the dark as to what this has to do with organ donation, to be honest. All I can gather is that saying something might make something bad happen.
Now if you mean in the sense of walking up to the local gangster and telling him his mum's fat, then yes, I'd agree that saying something can make something very bad happen to you....but what stating a fact about how something has never happened to you has to do with whether it can happen in the future, or how any of this affects people's decisions to be on the donor register.......nope, I do not see the connections.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Wobbles said:


> I don't believe talking about it will do anything *touch wood*, just like talking about a robber won't mean your burgled next day. What I believe is that saying something like "I don't know how I'd react until I was faced with it" is not a wise thing to do.
> 
> I'll put it another way, I tell someone my cat* was 17 in 3 days, nowt wrong with it, and never seen a vet in its life. 2 days later the cat's died. Why? because I tempted fate by saying how well it was and been fine. Another one, if my car* was due an MOT tomorrow, and I said "this car is 12 years old, never failed an MOT and never needed any work. Good job too, as I don't know what I'd do if I found it did, I can't afford it, but there's nothing wrong with it, I won't be in that situation so no matter." Next day, the car fails its MOT and needs hundreds of pounds in repairs. Why? Because I jinxed it, blabbing about how it was fine and never failed. _That_ is the sort of thing I mean. And it DOES work. I made the mistake once of telling someone my gerbil was in perfect health and doing great for its age, next day it was dead. I've never spoken out loud to someone that my pets are healthy/doing well since.
> 
> * Used a car and cat because I don't actually have one!


*i Totally understand where your coming from. For some unknown reason, i hate my hubby moaning about the cars. But i'm NOT superstitious.*


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> Well, what you believe depends how many times life's thrown you a curveball and screwed you over just when things were going ok, I suppose. *If your the sort that always finds things easy and come up smelling of roses*, you probably won't be half as concerned as someone who's a born loser that no matter what they touch turns to dust, so don't really want to risk chancing even more bad luck.


Yeah, that's me :laugh:

You make your own luck. Happy people work hard at being happy, we get up feeling sh*t too, some of us have consciously decided not to let life's curveballs knock us out of the game.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> Well, what you believe depends how many times life's thrown you a curveball and screwed you over just when things were going ok, I suppose. If your the sort that always finds things easy and come up smelling of roses, you probably won't be half as concerned as someone who's a born loser that no matter what they touch turns to dust, so don't really want to risk chancing even more bad luck.


I've certainly had my fair share of crap thrown at me; I don't believe that life has screwed me over. Just that sh!t happens and needs dealing with as and when.

You didn't answer my question from earlier - would you go onto a list for a donor organ if you were critically ill or refuse, knowing that to go on the list would be 'tempting fate' for another human being?


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *i Totally understand where your coming from. For some unknown reason, i hate my hubby moaning about the cars. But i'm NOT superstitious.*


Actually I'm not superstitious in some things but I am in others. For instance walking under ladders doesn't bother me, yet I always throw the salt over my shoulder, never put new shoes on the table, never cut my nails on Sundays, and never point at rainbows.



myshkin said:


> Yeah, that's me :laugh:
> 
> You make your own luck. Happy people work hard at being happy, we get up feeling sh*t too, some of us have consciously decided not to let life's curveballs knock us out of the game.


 Some people are lucky and some plain aren't, and can't alter it no matter how much they try. You do make your own luck to a degree, but you can't choose the hand your dealt in life.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Dogless said:


> I've certainly had my fair share of crap thrown at me; I don't believe that life has screwed me over. Just that sh!t happens and needs dealing with as and when.
> 
> You didn't answer my question from earlier - would you go onto a list for a donor organ if you were critically ill or refuse, knowing that to go on the list would be 'tempting fate' for another human being?


Tbh I wouldn't believe anyone would refuse an organ if it was the one chance to stay alive whatever they say but especially if it was a loved one who was in need.

To read about people whose lives have been saved or transformed by organ donation is inspirational & how anyone can read these & still not be a donor is beyond me 

There was a programme on TV last night about a woman who recieved a facial transplant after suffering a horrific attack by a chimpanze. Her strength & determination despite her terrible injuries was amazing.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> Some people are lucky and some plain aren't, and can't alter it no matter how much they try. You do make your own luck to a degree, but you can't choose the hand your dealt in life.


No; but you can choose how you cope with what you are dealt.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Dogless said:


> I've certainly had my fair share of crap thrown at me; I don't believe that life has screwed me over. Just that sh!t happens and needs dealing with as and when.
> 
> You didn't answer my question from earlier - would you go onto a list for a donor organ if you were critically ill or refuse, knowing that to go on the list would be 'tempting fate' for another human being?


*This question, in my opinion is unfair. Nobody knows how they will react in such situations.
People should only follow their own conscience.*


----------



## Jiskefet (May 15, 2011)

koekemakranka said:


> I am all for organ donation. The only thing that sometimes worries me is that the doctors may "hurry me along" if I am in a coma or something and there is e.g. a politician or celebrity or similar "priority" case on the waiting list..... (i know I'm paranoid)


First of all, the doctors that 'harvest' the organs don't know who they are for, there is an independent database selecting the best match on the urgent list. It may even go to another country if there is no good match locally, regionally or nationally. Besides, there is quite a lot of work involved, and a lot of stress, to keep the organ in a useable state till the transplant, so no-one will jump at the opportunity of a few extra hours work that may or may not help some totally anonymous person hundreds of miles away.
Of course, they will never refuse a suitable organ donor, but they are not overly eager for the tremendous lot of extra work, including paperwork, it involves.
So no need to be afraid of that....

And, personally speaking, if I were in a coma and the outlook was so bad that they were considering me as a possible donor, I hope they would indeed let me die, instead of artificially keeping me in a vegetative state for goodness knows how long. If I am not coming out, or will only come out a total wreck, I hope they will have the decency to let me go.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> Some people are lucky and some plain aren't, and can't alter it no matter how much they try. You do make your own luck to a degree, but you can't choose the hand your dealt in life.


No, you can't. And I could list every rubbish thing that has ever happened to me, but it would just be depressing, and besides, I don't waste very much time dwelling on it. Bad things happen to everyone during their lives, I am not especially cursed. I prefer to think about the things in my life that are good, and concentrate on doing everything I can to enjoy them. That was a choice.


----------



## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *This question, in my opinion is unfair. Nobody knows how they will react in such situations.
> People should only follow their own conscience.*


I don't think it is an unfair question at all but I do not belive anyone would refuse an organ for themselves or their child if that was their only chance of survival so it seems strange that they would take but not give


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *This question, in my opinion is unfair. Nobody knows how they will react in such situations.
> People should only follow their own conscience.*


It just seems unfair to not consider donation to others as that would tempt fate, but be prepared for fate to deal a blow to others in order to receive help yourself.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Dogless said:


> It just seems unfair to not consider donation to others as that would tempt fate, but be prepared for fate to deal a blow to others in order to receive help yourself.


*Bottom line is. we shouldn't judge others by how/what we believe. I is a PERSONAL choice and no one should be judged by their choice.*


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Bottom line is. we shouldn't judge others by how/what we believe. I is a PERSONAL choice and no one should be judged by their choice.*


It is personal, yes, but we do all judge. Having worked in theatres where blood is running out onto the floor as fast as it is being put into a patient and nursed those waiting for heart transplants - as well as being there with relatives who have had to make the choice of whether or not to donate their loved ones' organs I have seen both sides first hand.

I have formed very strong opinions and do firmly believe that it is fine not to donate organs or blood (for reasons other than you are not a suitable candidate) - but would sincerely like to hope that those morals do not allow you to accept them either. I know that the latter is most unlikely - all thoughts of morals / tempting fate would be forgotten and any help sought I suspect.


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

Bottom line is, many are ok with being a donor and others aren't. There is no right or wrong in this, a lot of organs are unsuitable for transplant, and even though my husband knows of my wishes, trust me, if I've just died and he is approached for donation it would be a lucky doctor that didn't end up getting floored. With the words "you're not cutting up my wife" although I doubt it would be put in such simple and polite terms. 

Now whilst I don't give a fig about me, I do know someone that will not donate anything, on the basis that as and when this person is reborn, they will be reborn without or with damaged parts because of donating in the previous life. 

It's their choice, just as its my choice to be a donor, this person and their beliefs -just because it doesn't sit well with someone's differing view does not make it the wrong belief/choice.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Dogless said:


> It is personal, yes, but we do all judge. Having worked in theatres where blood is running out onto the floor as fast as it is being put into a patient and nursed those waiting for heart transplants - as well as being there with relatives who have had to make the choice of whether or not to donate their loved ones' organs I have seen both sides first hand.
> 
> I have formed very strong opinions and do firmly believe that it is fine not to donate organs or blood (for reasons other than you are not a suitable candidate) - but would sincerely like to hope that those morals do not allow you to accept them either. I know that the latter is most unlikely - all thoughts of morals / tempting fate would be forgotten and any help sought I suspect.


*Then., with respect you would know there are other methods other than blood.?
I am one of those people that hasn't a clue should i be in this situation. But now knowing that someone who " should" have my life in their hands may be judging me, p*sses me off. Sorry but that's how i feel. I WILL NOT have someone else tell me what i should do with MY body.*


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

bird said:


> Bottom line is, many are ok with being a donor and others aren't. There is no right or wrong in this, a lot of organs are unsuitable for transplant, and even though my husband knows of my wishes, trust me, if I've just died and he is approached for donation it would be a lucky doctor that didn't end up getting floored. With the words "you're not cutting up my wife" although I doubt it would be put in such simple and polite terms.
> 
> Now whilst I don't give a fig about me, *I do know someone that will not donate anything, on the basis that as and when this person is reborn, they will be reborn without or with damaged parts because of donating in the previous life. *
> 
> It's their choice, just as its my choice to be a donor, this person and their beliefs -just because it doesn't sit well with someone's differing view does not make it the wrong belief/choice.


Choosing not to donate is fine by me - but would they accept a donation so that they could be reborn with working organs rather than damaged ones? That is what I struggle with. I am not saying that anyone is wrong - I am just struggling to understand how some thought processes work.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Then., with respect you would know there are other methods other than blood.?
> I am one of those people that hasn't a clue should i be in this situation. But now knowing that someone who " should" have my life in their hands may be judging me, p*sses me off. Sorry but that's how i feel. I WILL NOT have someone else tell me what i should do with MY body.*


There aren't always other methods or choices available - depends what environment you are working in. With respect I have never been anything but professional in my work. I leave any personal opinions firmly at the door and respects peoples' choices. I have never, ever given less than 100% when it comes to saving a life or caring for a patient - thinking that I would p*sses me off.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Dogless said:


> There aren't always other methods or choices available - depends what environment you are working in. With respect I have never been anything but professional in my work. I leave any personal opinions firmly at the door and respects peoples' choices. I have never, ever given less than 100% when it comes to saving a life or caring for a patient - thinking that I would p*sses me off.


*Can i ask, what do you do regarding blood when a Jehovah's witness comes in?*


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Can i ask, what do you do regarding blood when a Jehovah's witness comes in?*


Refer to the policy on transfusion. I no longer work in a hospital, haven't done for a few years. When I did we had a fair few JWs come in - whether to accept blood or not is their choice (or their families') obviously - they would often accept fractions or if it was preplanned surgery then there is the option of auotologous transfusion in some cases (as there is for non JWs). In fact, I haven't worked for the past year - but my most extensive and recent experience lies in the field of pre - hospital and trauma care. And before you ask....not may Iraqi / Afghan / Belizean etc civis are JWs (if any?) and there isn't always the option of anything but blood when something has gone bang! Any of us out on the ground also knew that if anything went bang for us then we would be receiving blood and platelets.

ETA: I actually DO recall there being JWs in Belize - we used to pick them up on the heli and take them to the hospital; no blood products involved no matter the religion so it never caused us an issue.


----------



## JANICE199 (Feb 1, 2008)

Dogless said:


> Refer to the policy on transfusion. I no longer work in a hospital, haven't done for a few years. When I did we had a fair few JWs come in - whether to accept blood or not is their choice (or their families') obviously - they would often accept fractions or if it was preplanned surgery then there is the option of auotologous transfusion in some cases (as there is for non JWs). In fact, I haven't worked for the past year - but my most extensive and recent experience lies in the field of pre - hospital and trauma care. And before you ask....not may Iraqi / Afghan / Belizean etc civis are JWs (if any?) and there isn't always the option of anything but blood when something has gone bang! Any of us out on the ground also knew that if anything went bang for us then we would be receiving blood and platelets.
> 
> ETA: I actually DO recall there being JWs in Belize - we used to pick them up on the heli and take them to the hospital; no blood products involved no matter the religion so it never caused us an issue.


*Not knowing your situation ie. work place, i had to ask the question.*


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

JANICE199 said:


> *Not knowing your situation ie. work place, i had to ask the question.*


I understand; I would never, ever, be less that 100% professional Janice, no matter what race, creed, religion a person is. I can respect all views. I'm just saying that sometimes I struggle, as folk must struggle with mine. If I can treat people injured planting IEDs designed to kill my colleagues and I then I can do my best by anyone!


----------



## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

They say that there is no such thing as a truly selfless act but isn't organ donation just that? You gain absolutely nothing from the act but can save lives from doing so. 

Sorry I was just thinking this when someone commented on a next life with limbs missing.. why would you be punished for a truly selfless act?


----------



## bird (Apr 2, 2009)

IrishEyes said:


> They say that there is no such thing as a truly selfless act but isn't organ donation just that? You gain absolutely nothing from the act but can save lives from doing so.
> 
> Sorry I was just thinking this when someone commented on a next life with limbs missing.. why would you be punished for a truly selfless act?


Tis just this persons belief, I don't for one minute pretend to understand it, I've just accepted it.


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

The blood recycling machine thing they use for jehovah's witnesses does work, my sister had scoliosis surgery so fairly major using it and she's not JW it was just what was thought to be the best option at the time. I know from Charlene that at her hall they were told to have it on their record right down to clotting factors what they would accept or not. 

I can't understand a parent say choosing to refuse their child a blood transfusion but it is their choice :001_unsure:.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Nicky10 said:


> The blood recycling machine thing they use for jehovah's witnesses does work, my sister had scoliosis surgery so fairly major using it and she's not JW it was just what was thought to be the best option at the time. I know from Charlene that at her hall they were told to have it on their record right down to clotting factors what they would accept or not.
> 
> I can't understand a parent say choosing to refuse their child a blood transfusion but it is their choice :001_unsure:.


Yes, autologous transfusions have been used in major orthopaedic ops for quite a while now.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

ok heres one... If there are too many people in the world already then is it more responible not to donate organs so that more people die thus helping to reduce overpopulation?

:devil:


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

JANICE199 said:


> *Then., with respect you would know there are other methods other than blood.?
> I am one of those people that hasn't a clue should i be in this situation. But now knowing that someone who " should" have my life in their hands may be judging me, p*sses me off. Sorry but that's how i feel. I WILL NOT have someone else tell me what i should do with MY body.*


Janice I 100% agree with you every word of this.

We get taxed,billed, charged, made to pay this, give that, comply with these rules, obey them orders, put up, shut up, do this, do that and the bleeding other whilst were alive. There is NO WAY their dictating what I do with MY body when I'm dead too.


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

reallyshouldnotwearjods said:


> I am hoping one day they will be able to do a pancreatic graft , as my daughter has type 1 diabetes (has since age 6 now 16), and I will be there first in line (as not a full transplant) x


I would love for this to happen! That would be an amazing achievement and gift. Im not diabetic but looked after alot of people with T1 and T2 diabetes


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

porps said:


> ok heres one... If there are too many people in the world already then is it more responible not to donate organs so that more people die thus helping to reduce overpopulation?
> 
> :devil:


----------



## spid (Nov 4, 2008)

porps said:


> ok heres one... If there are too many people in the world already then is it more responible not to donate organs so that more people die thus helping to reduce overpopulation?
> 
> :devil:


Naughty!!!!! :ihih::ihih:


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

porps said:


> ok heres one... If there are too many people in the world already then is it more responible not to donate organs so that more people die thus helping to reduce overpopulation?
> 
> :devil:


You already know the answer....because it would be far more effective, and ethically sound for people to reduce how many new lives they create, rather than allowing existing lives to end uneccessarily in suffering.

Can't believe I answered you, naughty boy!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Wobbles said:


> Janice I 100% agree with you every word of this.
> 
> We get taxed,billed, charged, made to pay this, give that, comply with these rules, obey them orders, put up, shut up, do this, do that and the bleeding other whilst were alive. There is NO WAY their dictating what I do with MY body when I'm dead too.


No one is dictating what happens with your body after you die. When the new system starts in 2015, if you don't want to be a donor, you opt out.
I wouldn't judge anyone for that.
I would totally judge anyone who would accept an organ after refusing to be on the register though.

My dad was very fond of telling us when we were kids to put our brains into gear before we opened our mouth....can I suggest that reading what has actually been said before offering an outraged opinion leads to a more informed opinion?


----------



## Tamsin W (Sep 18, 2012)

Kitty_pig said:


> I would love for this to happen! That would be an amazing achievement and gift. Im not diabetic but looked after alot of people with T1 and T2 diabetes


Pancreatic transplant is already performed on diabetics on a fairly regular basis (partial and full). However, it's usually only performed on those who have kidney failure and need surgery anyway (a sort of '2 for 1' deal). It's a high risk surgery for diabetics, so no sense in risking all sorts of surgical complications for a manageable condition.

Also bear in mind that anyone who's had a transplant will need to take immunosuppressants for life, so they're essentially just swapping insulin for another medication in the long term.

And, because of the nature of Type 2 diabetes (nothing wrong with the pancreas), this surgery only works on those with Type 1.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

goodvic2 said:


> How can we be so short of donors
> 
> How can people be dying when their are perfectly good organs being burnt or buried
> 
> ...


Religion maybe???


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Tamsin W said:


> I fundamentally disagree with this as well - if they're old enough to give reasoned consent on their own behalf, then fair enough.
> 
> I'm sure I remember reading something about a woman who was court ordered to take her child for chemotherapy after running away to treat his Leukemia or similar 'homeopathically' (good luck with that), and can't understand why a life-saving transfusion should be treated any differently solely based on parental religious beliefs. Have to wonder how many have slipped through the net due to lack of medical alert bracelet or documentation too - would be interested to know how parents react in a situation such as this (you'd think that the relief that their child was still alive would outweigh any religious indignation, but maybe not).


It was radiotherapy (not chemo) for a brain tumour; one of the side effects was the likelihood of brain damage meaning he would be unable to live a normal life. His mother argued that dying could be the softer option for him.


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Nicky10 said:


> Yes they want to harvest everyone's organs so our reptilian overlords can create a clone army :yesnod:.
> 
> Definition of mandatory
> adjective
> ...


When? I cycle without a helmet and know loads of other people do too. It's a legal requirement for motorcyclists (other than male Sihks where you couldn't get one over the turban).


----------



## Nicky10 (Jan 11, 2010)

Burrowzig said:


> When? I cycle without a helmet and know loads of other people do too. It's a legal requirement for motorcyclists (other than male Sihks where you couldn't get one over the turban).


You would have to ask the Oxford English Dictionary that was quoted straight from them


----------



## skip (Sep 25, 2011)

porps said:


> ok heres one... If there are too many people in the world already then is it more responible not to donate organs so that more people die thus helping to reduce overpopulation?
> 
> :devil:


I think you may well have a point but can't imagine it being very popular with the masses somehow :yikes:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Well!
lets put it this way!
*IF* i were to donate my organs, which I would!
I would prefer to be choose ' who' exactly they went to!
so to cut it short as soon as the doner forms allow us to sign up 'omitting' those we dont want them to go to the better!
untill then they are staying wiff me!


----------



## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Im not on any organ donation list and if I knew i was Id promptly take myself off, my choice Id like to be cremated with all of me. i feel we save to many people now adays which has over turned the natural course of things. Before youd have illness that would wipe out the weak or ill and the strong would survive. Now adays you can either cure or give long lasting life time care to someone ill.

When my time comes my time comes, ill be thankful for the great life Ive had.


----------



## goodvic2 (Nov 23, 2008)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Im not on any organ donation list and if I knew i was Id promptly take myself off, my choice Id like to be cremated with all of me. i feel we save to many people now adays which has over turned the natural course of things. Before youd have illness that would wipe out the weak or ill and the strong would survive. Now adays you can either cure or give long lasting life time care to someone ill.
> 
> When my time comes my time comes, ill be thankful for the great life Ive had.


So you would refuse an organ donation which might save your life??


----------



## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

goodvic2 said:


> So you would refuse an organ donation which might save your life??


Yeh I would, Id be pissed at dying of such a young age but at the same time I can come to terms that ive run my course i made the most of life and Im happy with what ive done.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

DT said:


> Well!
> lets put it this way!
> *IF* i were to donate my organs, which I would!
> I would prefer to be choose ' who' exactly they went to!
> ...


By the same token, I could say that I only want my organs to be given to people who were willing donate with no conditions whatsoever.....and thank dog the system doesn't work like that, because it's already hard for matches to be found at the right time, if we all get to put conditions on it, no transplants would ever take place.


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Im not on any organ donation list and if I knew i was Id promptly take myself off, my choice Id like to be cremated with all of me. i feel we save to many people now adays which has over turned the natural course of things. Before youd have illness that would wipe out the weak or ill and the strong would survive. Now adays you can either cure or give long lasting life time care to someone ill.
> 
> When my time comes my time comes, ill be thankful for the great life Ive had.


Finally someone's said it. It's all well and good wanting to find cures for everything, but if they cure every illness, so no one dies until they go naturally of old age (and people are living longer too), it would cause huge problems. We are already overcrowded, we would be even worse off curing everyone. We're born, grow up, live life, grow old and die, some younger than others before they've lived their lives which is extremely unfair, but in general that is the order of things. The sick and old leave and the new young ones take their place, so there is an equal balance. Curing everyone is going to upset that balance. Porps is right, no matter how callous it looks, we can't and shouldn't save everyone, the world is only so big to fit us in after all.


----------



## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

Wobbles said:


> Finally someone's said it. It's all well and good wanting to find cures for everything, but if they cure every illness, so no one dies until they go naturally of old age (and people are living longer too), it would cause huge problems. We are already overcrowded, we would be even worse off curing everyone. We're born, grow up, live life, grow old and die, some younger than others before they've lived their lives which is extremely unfair, but in general that is the order of things. The sick and old leave and the new young ones take their place, so there is an equal balance. Curing everyone is going to upset that balance. Porps is right, no matter how callous it looks, we can't and shouldn't save everyone, the world is only so big to fit us in after all.


Ok thanks ill tell that to my dad then. I'm sure he won't mind not seeing his grand kids grow up!

So how do you feel about other life saving procedures such as radiotherapy or chemotherapy. Would you go ahead with treatment to prolong your life or accept your fate without it. If you don't even like to tempt fate by talking about it I can't see you excepting dying without trying to get a cure.


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

SandyR said:


> Ok thanks ill tell that to my dad then. I'm sure he won't mind not seeing his grand kids grow up!
> 
> So how do you feel about other life saving procedures such as radiotherapy or chemotherapy. Would you go ahead with treatment to prolong your life or accept your fate without it. If you don't even like to tempt fate by talking about it I can't see you excepting dying without trying to get a cure.


I was agreeing with what Miss.Puddycat said. Because she has a point. So you think we should cure every single thing then? What do you think would happen when there is too many people on the world? Can you imagine the animosity having no space and overcrowding would cause? People are already p*ssed off because there are too many and not enough jobs, healthcare, hospitals, houses etc to go around, imagine how horrendous it would be if the numbers just kept growing and growing and not decreasing anyhow. Everything needs blanace and proportion or it goes out of control. The only thing that can increase constantly in a way that is good for you is your bank balance.


----------



## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Curse those pesky geriatrics and weaklings taking up my oxygen!


----------



## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

Wobbles said:


> I was agreeing with what Miss.Puddycat said. Because she has a point. So you think we should cure every single thing then? What do you think would happen when there is too many people on the world? Can you imagine the animosity having no space and overcrowding would cause? People are already p*ssed off because there are too many and not enough jobs, healthcare, hospitals, houses etc to go around, imagine how horrendous it would be if the numbers just kept growing and growing and not decreasing anyhow. Everything needs blanace and proportion or it goes out of control. The only thing that can increase constantly in a way that is good for you is your bank balance.[/
> 
> Yes you were agreeing but that means you are actually saying that you don't think your own life should be saved either. Considering you didn't want to tempt fate earlier your doing a very good job of it now lol.
> 
> ...


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SandyR said:


> Ok thanks ill tell that to my dad then. I'm sure he won't mind not seeing his grand kids grow up!
> 
> So how do you feel about other life saving procedures such as radiotherapy or chemotherapy. Would you go ahead with treatment to prolong your life or accept your fate without it. If you don't even like to tempt fate by talking about it I can't see you excepting dying without trying to get a cure.


Wobbles put their views across! thats all
We can pleasesome of the people some of the time, most of the people most of the time, but we will never please all of the people ALL of the time!
thats life!
SADLY


----------



## SandyR (Oct 8, 2011)

DT said:


> Wobbles put their views across! thats all
> We can pleasesome of the people some of the time, most of the people most of the time, but we will never please all of the people ALL of the time!
> thats life!
> SADLY


No you can't, if you could my dad would be healthy and my mum would not be having to donate a kidney because there are not enough donors out there. Hey that's life!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

While we are deciding to not save lives, how many of us would be around today without measles vaccinations, wisdom teeth removal, NSAIDs for things we now treat at home that used to kill people, childbirth which was a massive killer (still does cause deaths, despite our medical advances), chicken pox, TB....etc.

There are many illnesses that would have wiped out many of us, that we now no longer see as dangerous. We should stop all this treatment of the weak and bring them back, eh?

Of course, we wouldn't have Stephen Hawking, but who needs scientific geniuses who change the world? Let's go back to a life expectancy of 30, sounds good to me.

(There are not enough rolly-eyed emoticons to express my feelings, try to imagine it.)


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

SandyR said:


> No you can't, if you could my dad would be healthy and my mum would not be having to donate a kidney because there are not enough donors out there. Hey that's life!


What part of 
you can please some of the people some of the time
most of the people mostof the time
but you ill NEVER please all of the people all fo the time
do you now understand???

Hoping all goes well for your mum and dad!
but in this world today we have to learn to rely only on oursleves!
but HEY thats life!
and YEP most of us WOULD donate a kidney for a loved one, I certainly would!


----------



## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

Tamsin W said:


> Gigantic needle in the hip. Apparently hurts more than words can convey.
> 
> Blood donation is a walk in the park in comparison. I'm off the register due to insufficient body mass now, unfortunately - I'm a bit too squeamish to go down the marrow donation route, but I would like to give blood again if they'd let me.


One of my nephews donated bone marrow for my younger nephew(his brother ut, he was in a bit of pain but he just knew it was a small price to pay for his "little" brothers life... they are both over 6ft tall


----------



## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm not a donor and I won't be registering. 

To put it bluntly, I don't think we should be keeping so many people alive.


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

DT said:


> *What part of *
> *you can please some of the people some of the time
> most of the people mostof the time
> but you ill NEVER please all of the people all fo the time
> ...


My view, from her post, was that she understood exactly what you were saying and was agreeing with it.

If people are willing to try cures for diseases, or accept a transplant to pro-long their life, IMO, its wrong for them to _not_ agree to their own organs be used to pro-long someone elses life. Its selfish.

Thats fine. Just don't try to justify your views by jumping on someone elses.

One minute *you don't even want to talk about it because you are so superstiticous you think you might be inviting 'someone or something' to put you to the test, and the next minute you say you hold your views because the natural order of things will be out of balance and nature should take its course or the world will be overpopulated.....

* *You* is being used in a generic sense, and not directed at anyone in particular


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

DT said:


> Wobbles put their views across! thats all
> We can pleasesome of the people some of the time, most of the people most of the time, but we will never please all of the people ALL of the time!
> thats life!
> SADLY


Exactly. And as I was once told, you'll never please everyone so just please yourself:dita:


----------



## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

SandyR said:


> Ok thanks ill tell that to my dad then. I'm sure he won't mind not seeing his grand kids grow up!
> 
> So how do you feel about other life saving procedures such as radiotherapy or chemotherapy. Would you go ahead with treatment to prolong your life or accept your fate without it. If you don't even like to tempt fate by talking about it I can't see you excepting dying without trying to get a cure.


I have had many people in my family fall victim to cancer, all died well before their time some would say.

My dad is ill and his illness will never be cured, hes on many many meds and is both physically and mentally unwell for the rest of his life. My mom lost one of her kidney to a thankfully non cancerous tumor bigger then a grape fruit.

I cherish both my parents.

Im not saying that no one should be saved but that we should not save everyone, who gets to pick and choose Id like to leave that to fate.

I am at school to become a nurse, would I refuse someone treatment based on my beliefs? No of course not Id do what ever I could within my power and abilities to save them.

Throwing the comment in (not you another poster) about how we should go back to the dark ages without vaccines is like throwing your toys out of the pram as you say. Right now this discussion to me is about organ transplant and these are my beliefs when it comes to organ transplant.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> While we are deciding to not save lives, how many of us would be around today without measles vaccinations, wisdom teeth removal, NSAIDs for things we now treat at home that used to kill people, childbirth which was a massive killer (still does cause deaths, despite our medical advances), chicken pox, TB....etc.
> 
> There are many illnesses that would have wiped out many of us, that we now no longer see as dangerous. We should stop all this treatment of the weak and bring them back, eh?
> 
> ...


Well!
I had measels and chicken pox! also survived wisdom teeth removal and childbirth!
so hey , guess what!

That makes me SUPERWOMAN
t


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

sharloid said:


> I'm not a donor and I won't be registering.
> 
> To put it bluntly, I don't think we should be keeping so many people alive.


So if *god forbid* you ever need a transplant of any sort you are happy to die instead?


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> My view, from her post, was that she understood exactly what you were saying and was agreeing with it.
> 
> If people are willing to try cures for diseases, or accept a transplant to pro-long their life, IMO, its wrong for them to _not_ agree to their own organs be used to pro-long someone elses life. Its selfish.
> 
> ...


Erm! are you talking to me or chewing a brick???
you lost me , where did i say I didnt want to talk about it???
where did I want to justify MY views???
ERM! where did I say the world was over populated???
Are you sure you should be quoting me???
Answers on a postcard please


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

DT said:


> Erm! are you talking to me or chewing a brick???
> you lost me , where did i say I didnt want to talk about it???
> where did I want to justify MY views???
> ERM! where did I say the world was over populated???
> ...


The first sentence of my reply was aimed at you, hence me quoting you.

This (in case you missed it)


MCWillow said:


> My view, from her post, was that she understood exactly what you were saying and was agreeing with it.


The rest of my reply was aimed at nobody in particular, hence me adding an appendage to end of my post.

This (in case you missed it)


MCWillow said:


> * *You* is being used in a generic sense, and not directed at anyone in particular


Why would I be chewing a brick?

Answers on a postcard please


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

DT said:


> Well!
> I had measels and chicken pox! also survived wisdom teeth removal and childbirth!
> so hey , guess what!
> 
> ...


Well, yeah, course you are....my point being we all survive these things nowadays, because of modern medicine. They were major killers not so long ago, if we are keeping too many people alive, why not let nature take it's course with these things too. The infant mortality rate without vaccines and medicine would soon rid us of all those weak specimens.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> The first sentence of my reply was aimed at you, hence me quoting you.
> 
> This (in case you missed it)
> 
> ...


Sorry mcwillow but for the life of me I cannot understand WHY you quoted me!
had I have been more argumentive then I would have understood, but feel I have been pretty 'middle of the road on this one
Sorry!


----------



## MCWillow (Aug 26, 2011)

I quoted you because you asked Sandy what part of your post she didn't understand.
I was pointing out that_ I_ thought she did understand it, and agreed with what you said 

The rest of my post wasn't aimed at you - maybe I should have put a liney thing or something to separate the two things I was saying :blush:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

MCWillow said:


> I quoted you because you asked Sandy what part of your post she didn't understand.
> I was pointing out that_ I_ thought she did understand it, and agreed with what you said
> 
> The rest of my post wasn't aimed at you - maybe I should have put a liney thing or something to separate the two things I was saying :blush:


Okies, I thought Sandy didn't understand but then thats the way I saw it, maybe she did. Was just a little disgrutled that I had been singled out when I felt I was pretty neurtal on this one.
but never never mind shows how we can read things wrong sometime


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

DT said:


> *Erm! are you talking to me or chewing a brick???*
> you lost me , where did i say I didnt want to talk about it???
> where did I want to justify MY views???
> ERM! where did I say the world was over populated???
> ...


Ive missed you DT :lol:


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Throwing the comment in (not you another poster) about how we should go back to the dark ages without vaccines is like throwing your toys out of the pram as you say. Right now this discussion to me is about organ transplant and these are my beliefs when it comes to organ transplant.


I think you meant throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Throwing your toys out of the pram is having a tantrum......either way, no it's not, it's taking the argument to its logical conclusion. If it's wrong to keep people alive, who decides where the limit is placed? Many of us are only alive due to medical advances in the last hundred years, it's easy to say it shouldn't happen when we are now so complacent about so many once fatal illnesses.


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> I think you meant throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Throwing your toys out of the pram is having a tantrum......either way, no it's not, it's taking the argument to its logical conclusion. If it's wrong to keep people alive, who decides where the limit is placed? Many of us are only alive due to medical advances in the last hundred years, it's easy to say it shouldn't happen when we are now so complacent about so many once fatak illnesses.


Good reply Mysnkin
another area to look in is premature babies, 40 years ago a baby weighting 2 or 3 obs would NEVER have survuved, but now thankfully they do!

But if wwe are going to have to look at 'culling' the jails are FULL of canidates


----------



## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

myshkin said:


> I think you meant throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Throwing your toys out of the pram is having a tantrum......either way, no it's not, it's taking the argument to its logical conclusion. If it's wrong to keep people alive, who decides where the limit is placed? Many of us are only alive due to medical advances in the last hundred years, it's easy to say it shouldn't happen when we are now so complacent about so many once fatak illnesses.


Well to me it came across as a kid having a tantrum

Like I said Id leave that to fate, if someone ends up not getting a donor then sadly their time has run its course for them. Its a complete black grey and white area we cant go back in time but we can make changes now in the present. I believe that it is sometimes best to let nature takes its course and things should be wiped out instead of trying to save every last little thing.


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Well to me it came across as a kid having a tantrum
> 
> Like I said Id leave that to fate, if someone ends up not getting a donor then sadly their time has run its course for them. Its a complete black grey and white area we cant go back in time but we can make changes now in the present. I believe that it is sometimes best to let nature takes its course and things should be wiped out instead of trying to save every last little thing.


Im not trying to patronise you (Im really not) but maybe when you are further along in your training or qualified and have seen people suffering waiting for donor organs your opinion may change. It may not but it might x


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Well to me it came across as a kid having a tantrum
> 
> .


Nah! that weren't a tantrum!
it were a mere 'hissy' fit


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

That was mild for DT


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

Think I'm going to go to bed,
This angelic posting style I have adopted is making me tired
night all
xxxx


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

DT said:


> Nah! that weren't a tantrum!
> it were a mere 'hissy' fit


Come off it, it wasn't even slightly hissy. Do I have to go back and quote to show how un-hissy and un-tantrumy it was?
Don't make me do it on this phone, then I'll have a tantrum!


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Come off it, it wasn't even slightly hissy. Do I have to go back and quote to show how un-hissy and un-tantrumy it was?
> Don't make me do it on this phone, then I'll have a tantrum!


HTC perchance? :lol:


----------



## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Come off it, it wasn't even slightly hissy. Do I have to go back and quote to show how un-hissy and un-tantrumy it was?
> Don't make me do it on this phone, then I'll have a tantrum!


You are scurring me now


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Kitty_pig said:


> HTC perchance? :lol:


Yes! Absolute piece of bleep! In bed, trying not to disturb ancient poorly grouch dog, messing about with this stupid thing. Getting an i phone next! Grr!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

DT said:


> You are scurring me now


Ha! As if


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

myshkin said:


> Yes! Absolute piece of bleep! In bed, trying not to disturb ancient poorly grouch dog, messing about with this stupid thing. Getting an i phone next! Grr!


:lol: Ive got the htc desire, cant stand it for trying to post on here :lol:


----------



## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Kitty_pig said:


> Im not trying to patronise you (Im really not) but maybe when you are further along in your training or qualified and have seen people suffering waiting for donor organs your opinion may change. It may not but it might x


Ive seen my grandmother gasping for breath trying to breath, refusing pain meds, Ive seen and felt the grief and pain like that can cause. I have also seen it tear my entire family apart to the point there is only talking through lawyers.

Ive seen an aunt so depressed lash out at family members infront of young nieces and nephews because she was misdiagnosed and she only had a month to live, the shocked look on her face when turned around to see us behind her had her break down crying.

Ive seen my other aunt lash out my mother do to her illness and own selfish needs, that her son told my mother that we were the reason she no longer talked to use because we made her sick, drove her crazy and we were blocked from calling her at the hospital.

Ive seen mom in physical agony do to her tumor at a young age, watching my dad try and help her out of bed to use the washroom.

Ive seen my dad illness at the worst of times, seen him be arrested because he threaten to blow up his doctors car. Ive seen my dad become very sick, he sleeps for days or can be awake for days and I can not depend on him to be somewhere and must always take into a account any plans I make with him are never in stone.

Ive worked with special needs kids, with physical disabilities have helped them eat, wash and interact with others. Ive also seen the strain someone will a mental disability can have on a family.

Ive helped a girl at work two weeks ago who refuses to take her meds for her seizures and smokes pot all day. When she had a seizure, fell, smacked her head of a steel safe, cracked open her head, blood everywhere, bit her tongue, and was choking because she got her neck stuck beween the safe and several 20 pound bags of sugar. No one else helped or refused to help.

Even tho I told her before that I would not help her as she brings it on herself, there I was bent over her trying to lift up her shaking body to try and get her neck free as her eyes were bulging out of her head. It took a damn good few tries because the carpel tunnel in both my wrists and the weakness in my upper body muscles to do over use but I did.

I myself have high anxiety/panic attacks and have had thoughts of suicide in the past.

I have seen how illness and disease can rip a family apart that was once thought to be quite close. I no longer speak to any extend family.

Would I help someone in the street having a heart attack or having been in accident ? Of course I feel duty bound that since I have had the training, knowledge and experience that I should offer my help to others.

I believe at the same time though it has made be some what cold hearted and callous towards things.

So yes I do find your post Patronizing.


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> Ive seen my grandmother gasping for breath trying to breath, refusing pain meds, Ive seen and felt the grief and pain like that can cause. I have also seen it tear my entire family apart to the point there is only talking through lawyers.
> 
> Ive seen an aunt so depressed lash out at family members infront of young nieces and nephews because she was misdiagnosed and she only had a month to live, the shocked look on her face when turned around to see us behind her had her break down crying.
> 
> ...


I did say that I wasnt trying to patronise you and was very aware my post could come across that way. your personal experiences are horrible of course and I hope your professional ones are not so nearly as bad.


----------



## Miss.PuddyCat (Jul 13, 2009)

Kitty_pig said:


> I did say that I wasnt trying to patronise you and was very aware my post could come across that way. your personal experiences are horrible of course and I hope your professional ones are not so nearly as bad.


And Im sorry if my post came across in any mean hearted way, the majority of the general public (being spat at, having items thrown at me and screamed at. I work in a coffee shop!) plus everything else life throws at me my patience has hit rock bottom and I used to get praised for how patient I was with people  Its something I know I need to work on but when you have a coworker who refuses her meds, and has had three seizures at work your tolerance starts to decline.


----------



## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

Jiskefet said:


> And, personally speaking, if I were in a coma and the outlook was so bad that they were considering me as a possible donor, I hope they would indeed let me die, instead of artificially keeping me in a vegetative state for goodness knows how long. If I am not coming out, or will only come out a total wreck, I hope they will have the decency to let me go.


Oh yes, I agree. I have in fact a "Living Will" which stipulates that they should turn off the machines.


----------



## koekemakranka (Aug 2, 2010)

myshkin said:


> By the same token, I could say that I only want my organs to be given to people who were willing donate with no conditions whatsoever.....and *thank dog *the system doesn't work like that, because it's already hard for matches to be found at the right time, if we all get to put conditions on it, no transplants would ever take place.


Was that deliberate or a typo?


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

koekemakranka said:


> Was that deliberate or a typo?


Deliberate 
Mild blasphemy is a part of my everyday speech, having been raised catholic.....but I'm a stubborn atheist so I like to change it


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

I don't carry a donor card, and would 'opt out' if a presumed consent system came into place. It's not out of religion or superstition (I'm atheist and don't believe in fate or fairies either), but because I think that, as a society, we have become separated from the reality of life which is that some people don't make the threescore and ten. There seems to be a presumtion that there's some sort of entitlement to life, and that the medical services can and should do everything to make people live as long as possible; and to go beyond that and prevent people dying who are clearly beyond their time. Not allowing my organs to be used may seem rough on people who could use them (in the event they were usable), but I think better for society as a whole, which I think should reconnect with mortality. To say nothing about overpopulation, damage to other species/habitats as a result of human numbers and the way humans treat anything else on the planet as if it's been put here for humans to use and despoil.

The shortage of organs for transplant isn't through lack of donors anyway; it's that the card-carriers don't die. (Car designers have quite a bit to answer for here).

I would refuse a transplant if something went wrong with me that could be fixed by one. If I had cancer, my acceptance/refusal of treatment would depend on the treatment and the likelihood of it's success. A friend of mine has refused further treatment for her cancer; the side effects were horrendous and there was only a 30% chance of any benefit. In her place, I'd do the same.

Life is great, but that doesn't mean more of it is better.


----------



## sharloid (Apr 15, 2012)

Kitty_pig said:


> So if *god forbid* you ever need a transplant of any sort you are happy to die instead?


I never said I would be happy, but no I don't think I would have a transplant.


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

Miss.PuddyCat said:


> And Im sorry if my post came across in any mean hearted way, the majority of the general public* (being spat at, having items thrown at me and screamed at.* I work in a coffee shop!) plus everything else life throws at me my patience has hit rock bottom and I used to get praised for how patient I was with people  Its something I know I need to work on but when you have a coworker who refuses her meds, and has had three seizures at work your tolerance starts to decline.


im a qualified nurse i wish i could say this will stop for you :lol:


----------



## Kitty_pig (Apr 9, 2011)

sharloid said:


> I never said I would be happy, but no I don't think I would have a transplant.


Fair do's x


----------



## dexter12 (Aug 28, 2012)

im an organ donor. i just think once im dead i have no need for my organs so why not help someone else who does need them  if it was me or my family that was ill i would want a donor. so i wouldnt take something if i wasnt prepared to give it myself when the time comes.


----------



## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

Just musing on some of these comments. Maybe no one knows the answer to this probably but how many people who are candidates for transplants refuse one?

I just can't imagine having to spend the rest of my life on dialysis if I had the chance for a kidney transplant. Or if I was 15 and had CF and a heart and lung transplant would mean I lead a fairly normal life into adulthood.

It's not a judgement on those who refuse, I just wonder how many opt not to in that situation.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Polimba said:


> Just musing on some of these comments. Maybe no one knows the answer to this probably but how many people who are candidates for transplants refuse one?
> 
> I just can't imagine having to spend the rest of my life on dialysis if I had the chance for a kidney transplant. Or if I was 15 and had CF and a heart and lung transplant would mean I lead a fairly normal life into adulthood.
> 
> It's not a judgement on those who refuse, I just wonder how many opt not to in that situation.


I have known a few kneejerk refusals for hearts as the idea was too much to comprehend - I think hearts and corneas can be particularly emotionally significant for obvious reasons. Most thought it over and went on the list, I know of one that didn't change their opinion.


----------



## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

I think there was a tv doc on a few days ago about how they can now implant replacement hearts that are artificially made.... which is pretty cool. I can't imagine how they would do this for other less mechanised organs though.


----------



## xbaileyboox (Apr 26, 2012)

i like the fact that i came into this world as one, i want to go as one. i know thats very selfish. i would donate something, just not my heart or eyes


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

jenniferx said:


> I think there was a tv doc on a few days ago about how they can now implant replacement hearts that are artificially made.... which is pretty cool. I can't imagine how they would do this for other less mechanised organs though.


Yes, some folk have them; they have their dramas too - not least that you need to carry a battery and spare for them externally. They are used for those waiting for a transplant or recovering from major heart surgery. Some terminally ill patients have them as they would be ineligible for a transplant.


----------



## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Dogless said:


> Yes, some folk have them; they have their dramas too - not least that you need to carry a battery and spare for them externally. They are used for those waiting for a transplant or recovering from major heart surgery. Some terminally ill patients have them as they would be ineligible for a transplant.


Gosh it's a bit like Iron Man! I am fairly sure that there was something about this particular fake heart that was groundbreaking though- because their debate was whether or not it was better than a real heart and it's hard to imagine them 
having that conversation if you could conk when your double A's run out 

I never cease to be amazed at the medical marvels that can be achieved and yet some things, basic things- like periods! continue to blight so many lives!


----------



## Polimba (Nov 23, 2009)

Dogless said:


> Yes, some folk have them; they have their dramas too - not least that you need to carry a battery and spare for them externally. They are used for those waiting for a transplant or recovering from major heart surgery. Some terminally ill patients have them as they would be ineligible for a transplant.


Do they keep your heart there and put the artificial in next to it, or remove the damaged heart?

Sorry I get fascinated by these things.


----------



## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

Burrowzig said:


> I don't carry a donor card, and would 'opt out' if a presumed consent system came into place. It's not out of religion or superstition (I'm atheist and don't believe in fate or fairies either), but because I think that, as a society, we have become separated from the reality of life which is that some people don't make the threescore and ten. There seems to be a presumtion that there's some sort of entitlement to life, and that the medical services can and should do everything to make people live as long as possible; and to go beyond that and prevent people dying who are clearly beyond their time. Not allowing my organs to be used may seem rough on people who could use them (in the event they were usable), but I think better for society as a whole, which I think should reconnect with mortality. To say nothing about overpopulation, damage to other species/habitats as a result of human numbers and the way humans treat anything else on the planet as if it's been put here for humans to use and despoil.
> 
> The shortage of organs for transplant isn't through lack of donors anyway; it's that the card-carriers don't die. (Car designers have quite a bit to answer for here).
> 
> ...


I think this sums it up for me. Plus the fact that it's my body, my organs and I shouldnt have to justify to anybody why I dont want to be a donor.
One of the reasons I have never had children is because I feel strongly that the world is overpopulated.


----------



## Dober (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm not onthe organ doner list at the moment, but I should be. I don't like the idea of my eyes being donated-but I will likely tick the box anyway.

I don't believe you are a body and have a soul, I believe you are a soul and have a body.

I don't believe you need any of your body in the afterlife. 

What better gift could you give someone?


----------



## Burrowzig (Feb 18, 2009)

Leanne77 said:


> I think this sums it up for me. Plus the fact that it's my body, my organs and I shouldnt have to justify to anybody why I dont want to be a donor.
> *One of the reasons I have never had children is because I feel strongly that the world is overpopulated*.


Same here!


----------



## Wobbles (Jun 2, 2011)

Leanne77 said:


> I think this sums it up for me. Plus the fact that it's my body, my organs and I shouldnt have to justify to anybody why I dont want to be a donor.
> *One of the reasons I have never had children is because I feel strongly that the world is overpopulated.*


Yep, that's one of my many reasons too.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Wont we be able to grow new organs from stem cells soon? (if not already)... if people stop moaning about about the ethics of it all anyway


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Polimba said:


> Do they keep your heart there and put the artificial in next to it, or remove the damaged heart?
> 
> Sorry I get fascinated by these things.


It assists your own heart. LVAD - Left Ventricular Assist Device - helps your left ventricle to pump more effectively.


----------



## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

porps said:


> Wont we be able to grow new organs from stem cells soon? (if not already)... if people stop moaning about about the ethics of it all anyway


There was a TVprogram on quiet recently. apparently one of the by products of modern warfare has been research into this field!


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

porps said:


> Wont we be able to grow new organs from stem cells soon? (if not already)... if people stop moaning about about the ethics of it all anyway


The ethics won't be an issue soon, I think. There's some research in the US for MS going on using stem cells - harvested from the patient. Exciting stuff, without the ethical problems.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

northnsouth said:


> There was a TVprogram on quiet recently. apparently one of the by products of modern warfare has been research into this field!


 Lordy, what use would that have? I probably don't want to know!


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

Leanne77 said:


> I think this sums it up for me. Plus the fact that it's my body, my organs and I shouldnt have to justify to anybody why I dont want to be a donor.
> One of the reasons I have never had children is because I feel strongly that the world is overpopulated.


Absolutely agree. I can't believe how many people have been jumped on (even mocked) in this thread purely for not having the same views and beliefs as the majority. I am honestly appalled by it. And yes, i've read the whole thread.

If someone doesn't want to donate their organs then that is absolutely their choice and NOBODY should be made to feel bad, or any less of a person for choosing not to donate.

I personally don't like the idea of donating or recieving organs. I am very much of the belief that when your time is up, it's up. It's one of those things I sometimes mull over during the night when all sorts of things whizz through your mind - if I had cancer or some sort of 'life or death' illness, I really don't know whether I would want treatment or not.

I am a strong believer in fate and things happening for a reason (yeah go on, laugh at me - I don't care) and if I am not meant to live, then I am not meant to. I have always, always had a very small feeling that I will not live to a great age, I don't know why - ever since a child i've always believed that, so I think that is partly what makes me think the way I do.

I don't like the idea of having someone elses organs or anyone else having my organs. As for my family, I would like to think that I know their own view on it, and if a relative of mine wanted to recieve donor organs then I don't see anything wrong with that, just because I personally would not want to donate, that shouldn't make it immoral whether a member of my family recieves donor organs or not - that is up to them and I would only say yes or no depending on what THEY want, what I want is nothing to do with them, so the argument of "but you would accept them for a family member" is irrelevant, because my stance on it goes out of the window, it is totally based on what they would want.

That's just my opinion and if you want to jump down my throat or try to tell me i'm some sort of evil monster for choosing not to donate organs then that's your perogative, I think people absolutely have the right to choose what they do with their own body, and whether they want to give or recieve organs.

It's a very personal subject and I really don't believe ANYONE is right or wrong for their stance on it. I may change my mind in future, I often do change my mind on things and this is no exception. But not at the moment.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Tigerneko said:


> I am a strong believer in fate and things happening for a reason (yeah go on, laugh at me - I don't care) and if I am not meant to live, then I am not meant to.


i'm not going to laugh at you, but i'd like to ask you some things - 
-if fate is real then is choice an illusion? well it must be... 
-Isnt it true that if everything is fated to happen than noone needs to take responsibility for their actions since those actions are beyond their control?
-Do you think mass murderers, serial killers and serial rapists are that way only because that is what fate had in store for them all along, and if thats the case why do we punish them for actions beyond their control?


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

porps said:


> i'm not going to laugh at you, but i'd like to ask you something - if fate is real then is choice an illusion? isnt it true that if every thing is fated to happen than noone needs to take responsibility for their actions since those actions are beyond their control?


I don't know, I might believe in fate but i'm not saying that it is definitely the truth. And I don't think fate controls everything either. I strongly believe that people should take responsibility for themselves and their actions, but at the same time I do believe in fate to an extent, just based on personal experiences. But I don't for one minute think that everyone should totally abandon all responsibility.


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

porps said:


> -Do you think mass murderers, serial killers and serial rapists are that way only because that is what fate had in store for them all along, and if thats the case why do we punish them for actions beyond their control?


Not at all.


----------



## porps (Jun 23, 2011)

Tigerneko said:


> I don't know, I might believe in fate but i'm not saying that it is definitely the truth. And I don't think fate controls everything either. I strongly believe that people should take responsibility for themselves and their actions, but at the same time I do believe in fate to an extent, just based on personal experiences. But I don't for one minute think that everyone should totally abandon all responsibility.


i see.. to me fate and choice are mutually exclusive. Its one or the other and i dont see how the 2 can logically be reconciled.


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

porps said:


> i see.. to me fate and choice are mutually exclusive. Its one or the other.


Good  personally I think there's a bit of both.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

As I am definitely guilty of mocking, I'll clarify....I certainly wouldn't laugh at anyone for not wanting to be a donor. If they would accept an organ, I'd think they were selfish, however.

What I do mock, because I find it incoherent to the point of being nonsensical, is people who charge in outraged, claiming they are going to be forced to donate, and burbling sub Daily Mail stuff about the wrongness of it all without any evidence to suggest they've even read the the thread, then jump on every reason anyone else gives to justify their ill thought out rantings, as well as supplying some reasons of their own that Terry Pratchett himself couldn't make up.

I find that hilarious. Because if I didn't I'd probably go postal.


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

myshkin said:


> As I am definitely guilty of mocking, I'll clarify....I certainly wouldn't laugh at anyone for not wanting to be a donor. If they would accept an organ, I'd think they were selfish, however.
> 
> What I do mock, because I find it incoherent to the point of being nonsensical, is people who charge in outraged, claiming they are going to be forced to donate, and burbling sub Daily Mail stuff about the wrongness of it all without any evidence to suggest they've even read the the thread, then jump on every reason anyone else gives to justify their ill thought out rantings, as well as supplying some reasons of their own that Terry Pratchett himself couldn't make up.
> 
> I find that hilarious. Because if I didn't I'd probably go postal.


Yeah I read through that and some of it was daft and they obviously hadn't done their research as nobody is forced to donate and hopefully nobody ever will be forced to.

I still think it's terrible (and I am not saying it was you, it was basically everyone tbh) that so many people were straight away jumped on for saying they don't want to. I know it's hardly in the same league but the way I see it, it isn't too much different to the idea of me jumping down someones throat just because they don't ever want to have a tattoo, I have tattoos and I love them, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea and that's up to them. I think the same of this subject - if someone else doesn't want to donate organs for whatever reason (or no reason, it matters not) then that's their wish. Those that do choose to donate can at least walk away with their head held high knowing that they HAVE chosen to donate, and as for everyone else, then it's up to them.

I just think it's an extremely personal thing, it's like funerals - there are those who have a very clear plan, with certain music, coffin choice, hymns and whatever else and there are those who think 'well i'm dead anyway so who cares' - nobody would be considered right or wrong for that choice, so why do they have to be judged for another?

Maybe i'm too soft and nice and airy fairy but I just think everyone is entitled to their view on something without others of the opposite view giving them hell for it.


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

myshkin said:


> As I am definitely guilty of mocking, I'll clarify....I certainly wouldn't laugh at anyone for not wanting to be a donor. If they would accept an organ, I'd think they were selfish, however.
> 
> What I do mock, because I find it incoherent to the point of being nonsensical, is people who charge in outraged, claiming they are going to be forced to donate, and burbling sub Daily Mail stuff about the wrongness of it all without any evidence to suggest they've even read the the thread, then jump on every reason anyone else gives to justify their ill thought out rantings, as well as supplying some reasons of their own that Terry Pratchett himself couldn't make up.
> 
> I find that hilarious. Because if I didn't I'd probably go postal.


Agree. I have said several times on this thread that I can respect anyone's view and right not to give - totally up to them. What I CANNOT accept is people who won't (won't not can't!) give yet would willingly accept a donor organ / blood.


----------



## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

porps said:


> i see.. to me fate and choice are mutually exclusive. Its one or the other and i dont see how the 2 can logically be reconciled.


I don't see that they are mutually exclusive, I guess it depends on what your definition of fate is.

I believe in fate but in the sense that each person has a pre destined path or paths for them to walk but we have free will (choice) as to where we choose we walk. We may be guided towards the correct path but we may decide that it is more fun/interesting or whatever to go down a different route.

People may become distracted from the right path for many reasons, but that path is always there waiting for you to step back onto it when/if you choose to do so.


----------



## cinnamontoast (Oct 24, 2010)

Tigerneko said:


> * I know it's hardly in the same league* but the way I see it, it isn't too much different to the idea of me jumping down someones throat just because they don't ever want to have a tattoo, I have tattoos and I love them, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea and that's up to them.


No, no, it really isn't.  Decide to save someone's life when you're dead and won't know anythign about it or get some ink. Hmm.

I just love how these threads always descend into 'You said, he said, it's the way people jumped on so and so for disagreeing.' It's a _forum_ wherein we are supposed, by its very nature, to express our _opinions_.


----------



## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

Burrowzig said:


> I think that, as a society, we have become separated from the reality of life which is that some people don't make the threescore and ten. There seems to be a presumtion that there's some sort of entitlement to life, and that the medical services can and should do everything to make people live as long as possible; and to go beyond that and prevent people dying who are clearly beyond their time. Not allowing my organs to be used may seem rough on people who could use them (in the event they were usable), but I think better for society as a whole, which I think should reconnect with mortality. To say nothing about overpopulation, damage to other species/habitats as a result of human numbers and the way humans treat anything else on the planet as if it's been put here for humans to use and despoil.
> 
> The shortage of organs for transplant isn't through lack of donors anyway; it's that the card-carriers don't die. (Car designers have quite a bit to answer for here).
> 
> ...


I actually share some of your views here. I truly believe that as you say, we have become seperated from the reality of life. Life is just as much, well equal to death, you cannot have one without the other. Death makes room for new life. It's a circle that has always been and will never end.

These days everything that can be possibly done to preserve life (even if that means more suffering) is done, and without considering the implications. 
I've given a lot of thought to what I would do if I were to be diagnosed with cancer (few family deaths) and I really feel strongly that I wouldn't want to be treated with radiotherapy/chemicals etc. I'd like to try a holistic approach and if that didn't work it means my time is up. Obviously this is how I feel now and I could feel very different if that scenario were to happen.

I donate and carry a card as I believe that it is right for me to do so, not many share my view on death so if I can do my bit to help others who wish to prolong their life then I will do so.


----------



## Tigerneko (Jan 2, 2009)

cinammontoast said:


> No, no, it really isn't.  Decide to save someone's life when you're dead and won't know anythign about it or get some ink. Hmm.
> 
> I just love how these threads always descend into 'You said, he said, it's the way people jumped on so and so for disagreeing.' It's a _forum_ wherein we are supposed, by its very nature, to express our _opinions_.


Yes, express your opinion all you want but I really think you should also RESPECT opinions of others, someone doesn't want to donate? So what? Let them have their stance on it, it doesn't give anyone who does want to donate any sort of power to call them selfish or disgusting or whatever else people have been called in this thread.

I have been here for 4 years, I am quite aware it is a forum but thank you for reminding me


----------



## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

The idea of some sort of biological determinism applied to medicine is what I find all wrong. If you've ever taken antibiotics... or a paracetamol ... or a vaccination... you've interfered.

If you've ever been treated for _anything_, if you have ever taken a pet to vets to be treated for a condition or disease -you've not left it up to 'nature' to decide. You made the decision to help them (or yourself) based on what was available to you.

People have always felt weird about medical advancements, but what is in its infancy today will be the mainstream tomorrow, like every other novel drug or procedure or theory that went before.

Obviously everyone can feel free to reject them as they will but many more will avail of them and benefit, even if not personally.


----------



## northnsouth (Nov 17, 2009)

myshkin said:


> Lordy, what use would that have? I probably don't want to know!


Technology serving new war amputees - The Boston Globe

I can not find the programm, but the above is an example of things. During war far there in an increase in casualties of various types,we owe the amazing skin grafts people have now to research done following WW2 and looking after veterans for example.
In recent conflict there is a high number of amputees. The American and British MOD are investing heavily in research to assist war veterans who have been injured. There is research, one USMarine who had been blinded in conflict was helping trial equipment that was helping him to see via electroids, although he could not see colour and the equipment cumbersome he could see shape and shades and lines and this was only a proto type.

Another who had a large amount of his lower leg blown away was helping trial a new skin and muscle regrowth, although he had scars his muscle was usable and with further treatment he is expected to regain full use of his limb, he already had regained partial use, he could walk and was running on a treadmill...There was also another who had what was basically a bionic hand he could use it for almost anything he had done before...
*Because there are a large number of the same type of injuries and the goverments are investing due to helping war veterans there is a leap in medical advancement again.

Obviously no war is preferable, but this is the reason behind my post.


----------



## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

northnsouth said:


> Technology serving new war amputees - The Boston Globe
> 
> I can not find the programm, but the above is an example of things. During war far there in an increase in casualties of various types,we owe the amazing skin grafts people have now to research done following WW2 and looking after veterans for example.
> In recent conflict there is a high number of amputees. The American and British MOD are investing heavily in research to assist war veterans who have been injured. There is research, one USMarine who had been blinded in conflict was helping trial equipment that was helping him too see via electroids, although he could not see colour and the equipment cumbersome he could see shape and shades and lines and this was only a proto type.
> ...


Of course, me being a bit thick there! 

A friend who was a burns nurse told me nearly 20 years ago that the most advanced, skilled burns unit in the UK was in Belfast - for obvious reasons. I find it quite hard to comprehend such good coming from such bad events, but it does.


----------



## IrishEyes (Jun 26, 2012)

jenniferx said:


> The idea of some sort of biological determinism applied to medicine is what I find all wrong. If you've ever taken antibiotics... or a paracetamol ... or a vaccination... you've interfered.
> 
> If you've ever been treated for _anything_, if you have ever taken a pet to vets to be treated for a condition or disease -you've not left it up to 'nature' to decide. You made the decision to help them (or yourself) based on what was available to you.


This is true, I absolutely agree... where does one draw the line? We all interfere with nature even for things as simple as a common cold.

I frustrate my partner at mt refusual to take painkillers etc but I really prefer to let things work through naturally, I have a terrible cold at the moment and feel rough but I won't go to work or take medication.

I would never expect another to do the same, we have to do what feels right for us so I wouldn't judge another because they see things differently to me (not saying that you judge, just making a point!)

If Horace needs to see the vet, I wouldn't hesitate as he is my responsibilty, same goes for a child needing a doctor. It's when it comes to me that I'm stubborn!


----------



## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

I have just seen on the ITV news that 120 000 people have joined the organ donor register in the one week since they started to do daily reports on it  :thumbup::thumbup:.


----------



## hazyreality (Jan 11, 2009)

myshkin said:


> The infant mortality rate without vaccines and medicine would soon rid us of all those weak specimens.


Do you not think fate/mother nature is still? To me, there is a reason the highest places for infant death are where the population would/does still grow the quickest. 
Ever noticed how the most awful of the natural disasters hit areas that have the most people? Is it just that they are awful because of all the people that get caught in it, or is it that its there *because * so many people will get caught in it.

I believe (and I am not by any means asking anyone to accept it or believe it aswell) that fate/mother nature or whoever/whatever the hell it is that works on this earth, is throwing more and more things at us (humans) to try and sort out our numbers.

I do believe there is an ulterier motive, I don't know what on earth it is, but I think there must be one in place. We have too much s**t happen in our family for me to believe it just random.
Some of the horrible things have turned out good, some not so good, some things are to be honest, just bad. 
My sister is in a wheelchair because she was in a car accident at 18, she is now 35, she has 2 beautiful children and a husband who is also in a chair. If you ask her, she will say she doesnt want to walk again...she has done so much more in that chair than she ever would have done walking. She has jumped out of a plane, she has done a 300mile handbike ride in Malawi...she wouldnt have dreamed of doing this walking, and she wouldnt have met her husband in a hot tub at a sit ski resort! Fate?

But, if fate says my organs can save 3 people for instance, who the hell am I to disagree with it! It'll all sort itself out in the end!

*Heidi*


----------

