# Older Shih tzu attacking puppy



## kelson (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi

I am new to the forum and I really need some help.

I have 2 Older Shih tzu's 1 female 8 1/2 years, 1 male 7 years and have introduced a 11 week old puppy male 2 weeks ago. I had read up on how to introduce them and I feel I achieved succes with this, the puppy is crated and in a puppy pen inside the house so is not being gven free rein, he can see us all and is settling in very well and we let him out for play etc. All is fine with the other male, they are enjoying play time and also calm time however the female has not accepted the change and has viciously attacked the puppy unprovoked on 3 separate ocassions. 

The first time the puppy and male where playing out of sight of the female but she could hear them, she flew off the sofa ran to them and bite the puppy causing and awful comotion, we separated them and there seemed to be no harm to the puppy. I am taking the puppy to socialisation at the vets so i asked them and they said she could be jelous of the new relationship between the boys.

The second time I was out and my boyfriend was at home sitting on the sofa with the femal and both the boys were sat on the floor calmly, she flew off the sofa bite and picked the puppy up and shook him about like a rag doll. He separated them and had to restain her as she was going back for more.

Today they have been calm all day and she had been reaaly close to the puppy when he was out of the pen with no isssues, so i took them to my mums garden as neutral territory as the puppy cannot go out yet. At first all was good the boys were playing and she was running about then when they all sat down in the shade all calm she suddenly attacked the puppy who was nowhere near her, she is being really vicious, so I separated them and tried to get her on her side in a submissive position till she calmed down, i kept calm and assertive but she was not giving up, trying to get back at him. finally she settled then all was fine again, the boys chilled out then played some more, she just watched or ignored them and would not play or join in any actitvity i tried to insitgate.

She has growled at him a few times other than this but not consistently and i thought this was her telling him to back off. but the attacks are really worrying. we have given all dogs even attention and i am very strict about our behavior around them having read all the breed books again recently and the dog wisperer puppy book, so i am at a loss as to what to do.

Can anyone help


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## Argent (Oct 18, 2009)

Please don't listen to Cesar Milan, the alpha roll and 'pack leader' rubbish is all outdated and all you're doing is upsetting your girl and intimidating her.

I'm not 100% sure what to advise in this situation. How do you guys react when she attacks the puppy? Has she had controlled introductions and been reassured that the puppy is a source of good things, especially when she acts calm?


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## mamf (Jun 26, 2011)

Hey OP, I know how hard this situation is, When we intriduced our Akita Pup our older rehomed Shiba's aggression issues all came rushing back to the surface, this can be dealt with,Im sure far more intelligent folk than I will eb along shortly to help you out soon 

my tuppence worth-
dont roll your dog, it may get even more frustrated and be even worse.

Buy a muzzle, you dont want to add injury to the fear your pup is feeling and if you arent worried about biting you will be calmer and better able to reward good behaviour as you wont be as tense. 

walk them together a lot, this will help them get used to each other

Dont pick up the puppy when they scuffle- I learnt this the hard way, my older dog would immediately have a go when we put her down, dont remove the older dog either take the puppy out of the room until everyone is calmer then ideally have some one distract the older dog with a game or toy whilst the pup re-enters

mix up their bedding and grooming brushed if they have them, get them used to each others smells

never leave them unattended together, our break through came after about two months of walking together, praise whenever Kita was around the pup and calm, muzzled contact, feeding separately, no treats to inflame things etc we noticed Kita wanted to join in on the play between our puppy and our older female shar pei and things have been progressively better ever since.. 

I hope none of my advice is too incorrect, hopefully you'll get some other input, good luck!


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## kelson (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks I will not do that anymore then. I have done the calm introductions and praise when she is calm near him. walking them together will have to wait until he can go out but i will definately try this loads. as for my reaction when she attacks him, i think i just told her off the first time, my boyfriend put her in her bed the second time when i was not there, which i do not think was right and then today i held her down and i will take your advice and not do this next time, so what should i do?


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## mamf (Jun 26, 2011)

As I said, what worked for me was muzzles which meant that they never scuffled, try removing the pup from the room, then once everyone is calm distracting the older dog with something positive, Kita has a love for balls so I would get OH to engage him in a game of fetch, then when Eiko was brought back in he wouldnt be focussed on her. Then I would pile on the praise for any positive thing he did around her, laying down calmly, walking away from her etc


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## Maz&Oozy (Mar 29, 2010)

ok 1st please don't muzzle a shih tzu they are a short nosed breed and this could cause issues, the most a shih tzu should be muzzled is a few mins with a muzzle that also covers their eye, really only suitable for grooming issues..

muzzles are ok for most dogs but not for breeds with short nose/muzzles.. and there is only 1 or 2 muzzles on sale at the moment suitable for shiddies but only as a very short term thing, minutes.

Don't use a muzzle please...

I know I have 3 shih tzu's and know a lot of shih tzu breeders and owners. 

Shih Tzu's are quite a determined/stubborn breed and it may take a good while for the new pup to be accepted, I have just introduced a new pup who has been here for 3 weeks and have to say I have never kept them apart, keeping apart can actually sometimes cause a prob. 

I let them be together from the off, after 20 mins the 2 boys were happy, my girl took to him within 4 days, now she mothers him if anything.

also it may and im sorry to say this, be a case they will never get on I have heard this a few times.

Its a difficult situation, if you want to chat then message me, im happy to try and help and and any questions.
:thumbup:


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## PennyH (Dec 30, 2008)

We have 4 dogs, the youngest is 8 1/2 months. When we bought him home last December, our Yorkie absolutely hated him on sight! She growled every time he went near her and went for him a couple of times. The oldest of our dogs wasn't bothered either way and pretty much ignored him. The next oldest (who is a springer x lab) absolutely adored him from the minute he came in the door.
It took our yorkie about a month to realise that this puppy (who was smaller than her when we got him) was here to stay and she had better get used to it!!
They are now very good friends, and although she will tick him off from time to time if he gets too boisterous they really do get on well now.
It will take time and as long as your dog is not actually hurting the pup - just warning him and telling him off - I am sure she will get used to him in time.


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## mamf (Jun 26, 2011)

Sorry for the muzzle advice! Please listen to the above, I have no experience with this breed as I said just my tuppence worth, just what worked with a shiba Inu and an Akita Inu


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## kelson (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks. I know shih tzu's are particular and i am obviously going to sit it out. I will not muzzle them, but appreciate all advice. What should I do if she attacks again?


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## kelson (Jul 10, 2011)

do not worry about muzzle advice i understand all breeds are different, you advice is very helpful


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## Maz&Oozy (Mar 29, 2010)

I guessed that the original comment about muzzles was from someone who didn't know the breed  lol its hard to find the shih tzu's muzzle let alone get a muzzle on it rofl :biggrin:

and if was me, when this happens distract the female with maybe a fav toy, or a squeaky/noisy toy... don't shout at her, as she may then think its because she went near the pup.

My 3 do play rough and sometimes does look like the pup will be hurt, but when you watch carefully you see it just *looks* rough, so some maybe play, I know oozy has a few times tried to shake the pup.. we just call him and distract, he trots over and then 5 mins later play again.

I would also lol get a tunnel, cat tunnels are brill, the older one cant get in it and the pup can... my pup will wind up Oozy then run in it as knows he is *safe* maybe that will help you..


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## kelson (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks i will get a tunnel and try that, I will let you know how it goes x


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## Maz&Oozy (Mar 29, 2010)

good luck and hope it sorts itself out :thumbup:


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