# Poorly goldfish



## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

I have two indoor goldfish - Bernie and Dennis (named after my late father and a friend's late father). I'm not sure how old they were when I bought them but I've had them about two years and they have grown a fair bit and the black one is now gold.

Over the last couple of days I've noticed that Bernie keeps lying vertical with his nose on the gravel - I think he may have swim bladder problems.

I don't like to see any living being suffer so asked my vet this morning (when I went with one of my bunnies) if she put goldfish to sleep. She doesn't and suggested just taking him out of the water. My understanding is that fish can last a fair while out of water and it would be a slow, suffocating death -but I could be wrong? She also said I could wrap him in tissue and put him in the freezer which would anaethetise him before he died.

I am not the sort of person who could take him out and hit him over the head even though I know that may be kinder so I am in a bit of a quandry. He is still eating, but mainly staying in one corner and it is upsetting to see him and to feel totally helpless.

I must admit I don't know a great deal about fish. They are in a small tank with a pump and filter and have always seemed happy and lively until now. Dennis still seems fine.

Does anyone have any ideas?


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

I am awfully sorry that i don't have fish so can't advise on any illness...
I know this sounds strange but we have aquarium fish and they also do this, but come right...as we have a cold, maybe it could be a fish illness that will pass...

I don't think i could take him out of water or put him in the freezer...
Surely the best thing to do would be to make him a happy fish as he is and let him pass natuarally....?

Im sorry i cant be off more help....


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear your fish is ill, it's not nice to watch them as there isn't a great deal you can do with fish when they are poorly - I always feel helpless. 

Have you tried Malakite Blue? (not sure if this is spelt right, but I'm sure it's something like that) We always use it for our indoor and pond fish... You put it in their water, all the intructions are on the back, a fair few of my Fish have been well again after this treatment, might be worth a try?

Hope he gets better soon!


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## scosha37 (Feb 24, 2008)

Aww sorry to hear your news...i have 0ver 25 goldfish in my tank and i love em..I had a Blackmoor fish wich i had and he was 10 years old and he died the same way but i could let him go he lived for 6 months after his went he used to swim upside down like his belly showing.....until it was dinner time!...there was straight as a die!.. up eating like his useal self... but the last few days i brought him out and put him in a little fish bowl so that the other fish couldnt pick at him, in the end i just woke up and he had gone.. to fishy heaven
R.I.P ben ..

hope you get things sorted its sad when you know you cant really do anything for them...


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

Well I am not one to give up so I went to an aquarium shop and spoke to a really helpful member of staff and now have a treatment for swim bladder problems and some salt which should act as a kind of tonic. I also got some disgusting looking frozen bloodworms or something equally revolting - which is apparently a nice fishy treat 

However, maths is NOT my strong point and I have absolutely no idea how much of this stuff to add to the water. I have measured the tank but the table in the leaflet with the treatment doesn't deal with such small fishy homes 

My tank is 7" wide, 9.5" high and 14.5" in length. Can anyone tell me how many litres of water it holds please? Then I will know how many drops of the treatment to add.

I want to give poor Bernie the best chance possible.

Many thanks for your support.


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

I found a calculator on a fish-keeping site so have now added the salt and the swim bladder medication and hope this will help Bernie to feel a bit better. Dennis would miss him if he went to Rainbow Bridge as they both snuggle up together at night.

Fingers crossed that it works.


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## sullivan (Aug 29, 2008)

Some times the type of food feed can be a lot to do with swim bladder problems as they gualp to much air if fed on the top of the surface . Some times the pellets can be better but if given to many can cause the tank to get a bit dirty quickly. Black moor often go gold for some reason dont know if its any thing to do with maturity. I use to give mine some times cooked peas {out of shuck}, they use to like cucmber and raw potato also. There fav was water fleas although there can be a small risk of diease comtamination so ive been told. From the water there kept in although i never had a problem at all Hope i was a little help.


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## Katie&Cody (Dec 4, 2008)

Glad you managed to get some constructive advise rather than the vet telling you to 'let him die'...

Good Luck and pls keep us updated. x


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

Well I added the second lot of swim bladder treatment on Thursday and yesterday Bernie looked brighter. He's now swimming around more and resting horizontally rather than vertically.

The instructions said to remove the filter which I have done but the water looks quite murky now. I have two more treatments to add - at four day intervals. Should I partially change the water or does the treatment work by build up in the water? It doesn't say on the packet.

Just wondered if anyone had any experience of this type of medication?

It's good to see Bernie looking more himself. I am cautiously optimistic - and VERY glad I didn't just take him out of the water (not that that was ever an option for me).


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## sullivan (Aug 29, 2008)

When your fish is alot better your better off doing a part water change. As with out a filter the water is going to become very messy the fancy goldfish do produce a fare bit of waste. Also if the water builds up to high ph it can effect the fish. Bad water will also cause red streaking in long finned fish and this can lead to white spot through bacteria. Id do a part water change. You can get a treatment which is safe to use a preventor and can be added to the water at each clean out.


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## sullivan (Aug 29, 2008)

Think its called diease safe.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm by no means an expert, but I'm surprised that the medication told you to remove your filter - poorly fish in particular need their water quality to be as good as possible, which simply cannot be done without a filter! Do you have a test kit to test your water? What is the name of the medication you've been given?

Also, I don't want to be mean, but the dimensions that you've given for your tank mean that it only holds 15 ltrs, which is much too small to keep a pair of goldfish in. If they're fancy goldfish they need 40 ltrs each, if they're common goldfish then they need considerably more, as fancies can grow upto and above 6" long, commons 12" long! You and your fishies would be much better off with a larger tank - your fish would be happier and you'll find that a big tank is much easier to keep clean


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## Phil (Apr 17, 2008)

Hello...I agree with magpie...you should keep your filter in. These sort of medications usually mean you should remove any carbon (black charcoal) based chemical filtration as they absorb the medication and don't release it back into the water (until about 5-6 weeks later where it will start to leach back in). If you are just using a sponge based filter put it back in ASAP...or you may end up with to Ammonia/Nitrite poisioned fish!!!


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks everyone.

It is just a sponge filter so I have put it back in

When I bought the tank it said it was suitable for three small goldfish and the guy in the shop confirmed this when I bought the fish, but I decided just to have two. They have grown quite a bit since I got them.

I don't have room for a bigger tank as this one is on a shelf of a bookcase in the room I use for counselling - which is the only room in my house my eight cats don't have access to.

It doesn't look too small - they have plants and a boat and shells and things they play amongst. However, I hate the idea of them being unhappy. Would it be kinder to put them in my pond in the summer? And what sort of fish could I keep in the tank I have -which wasn't the smallest on sale


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Like I said, I'm no expert - I've only had my goldfish for about a year after my brother got bored of them! 
He had them in a 21 ltr tank and they looked perfectly content... but after having bought them a 90 ltr (literally a week after I took them off his hands) there is no way I would put them in anything smaller. Its 30" long and you should see them darting about in it!

Unfortunatley the folks working in pet shops don't always know what they're talking about - some of them are brilliant, but some of them just talk garbage  

I think your goldfish probably would be much happier in a pond during the summer if you don't have the room for a bigger tank. Though it may depend on what type of goldfish they are - are they fancy or commons? Either way, you'll be surprised by how much they grow, given the room!

As for your 15 ltr tank, you could probably keep a male betta (siamese fighting fish) in there quite happily. They are beautiful creatures, and because of their long fins they are not the best of swimmers and therefore don't need as much room for exercise as other fish. Of course they are tropical fish, so your tank will need a heater.

I hope thats of some help, and I am glad that Bernie is looking healthier


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks Magpie. I am embarrassed to say I haven't a clue if they are fancy or common goldfish. I just wanted a couple of fish to relax my clients when I am counselling and me when I am working from home on the PC. It works - I absolutely love watching them - but I hate the idea they are miserable. I bought a tank rather than a bowl because I thought they would be happier.

There is room on the bookcase for a slightly longer and taller tank but not one that is much wider - also I don't want the wood to give way! Maybe I will have a look on e-bay and see what I can find. My pond fish are much bigger than Bernie and Dennis but are signficantly older. 

I have put the sponge back in the filter but I think it may have carbon inside so possibly I shouldn't have done that.

I had no idea there was so much to learn keeping a couple of goldfish.

It is wonderful to see Bernie swimming around happily again - or I thought he was happy. He may well be feeling claustrophobic


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Bless! I'm sure he is just happy that he's feeling better! 

If you can give a description of what they look like or post a photo, I may be able to tell you what variety they are. 

You definitely did right in getting them a rectangular tank rather than a bowl, as bowls have a much smaller surface area for the water and therefore less oxygen gets into the water.

Your filter probably doesn't have carbon in it so I wouldn't worry about that - your fishies are much better off with the filter in rather than out! For some filters you can buy an extra carbon filter (which is black in colour) which is specifically for removing traces of medication from the water - I imagine that is what the medication you bought was warning against.

If you can fit a bigger tank on your bookcase then that may well be the way to go - I have no idea if your fish would be okay with much larger fish in a pond, so I wouldn't want to suggest something that may be the wrong thing to do!


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## Lumpy (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't have any photos of them on the PC

I've just tried to measure them but they won't keep still!

They are both gold, the body about 2", with a long tail that seems to have slits in it (it's always been like that I don't mean it's torn or anything).

If I rearrange my therapy room I may be able to fit a stand and tank in somewhere. I'm worried that if I get a bigger tank it will be too heavy for the shelf it is on.

I have very limited finances so will have to see what comes up on e-bay or my local freeadds.

Many thanks for your help.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

You could try this website to see if you could identify them:

Goldfish Types

Ebay sometimes have some fantastic bargains, or I'd certainly recommend Clear Seal tanks as being fairly inexpensive. I got mine for about £30 and you can get smaller ones than that. Good luck!


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## sullivan (Aug 29, 2008)

My mate took my fancy fan tail and put it in his pond 6 years ago its moved home 3 times with house moves and its still going and my it has really grown . Its silver and gold very nice looking fish.


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