# Help demodex mange



## meggles (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi I am new on here and just dont know what to do, well I know what i will do as i love my dog just feel like all vets are afteris your money.
I have a British Bulldog he will be 8 in January. I got him when he was 1 and within a few weeks of having him he was scabby and loosing fur. I was insured through pet insurance so took him to vets who diagnosed him as having demodex mange. After a year of treatment and continuos baths (alludex) the pet insurance ppl would not cover us for it anymore when it came to renewal. I then got refered to a dermotologist who continued to give baths and invomectin. And still no impprovement after being treat at the vets for over 3 years I just could not afford it anymore and contacted the breeder who we got the dog off (IMO he knew the dog had mange when we bought him) he said he could get the shampoo for us at half the cost the vets charged so I went down this route. I think although he has never got better I have managed to keep the pain down and the scratching as best as possible but he has just had a nasty outbreak so I decided to try the new vets he now goes to (after not going to the vets for 3 yrs) Anyhow they said they have never seen that many mites on a living dog in all their years of practising. But she also says that she doesnt think he will be cured as some dogs just cant be. She has given me antibiotics invomec and painkillers, she wants to do this for 6 months and really blitz it to see if this gets rid of it. It is going to cost me £200pm. But she also noticed a big lump in one of his testicles and thinks he could have cancer and would like that to be removed and tested. that will cost an extra £200. Obviously I will find the money to pay for it from somewhere as he is my little boy! but how can vets expect ppl to have this money? I looked on the internet and the price you can get these drugs for is at least half the cost the vets charge! When did vets become so money orientated. And is it worth paying £200pm for treatment when she doesnt think it will work?
HELP


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

Demodex mange is generally thought to be an inherited condition and may be one that bull dogs are susceptible to (although not sure).

You can now get a prescription from your vet and see if you can get the meds online. They are entitled to charge for a prescription, however, considering the cost I think you will find it a cheaper option. Thankfully my dogs are healthy, but I do get wormers online and it is around half the cost the vets charge - they charge £7 for a prescription.


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## Twiggy (Jun 24, 2010)

I really sympathise especially as one of my dogs was recently in the vets and he suspected demodex mange. Fortunately it wasn't.

Have you thought of getting a referral to a homeopathic/holistic vet who seem to have a better success rate treating this sort of thing? Trouble is its even more expense.


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## Jugsmalone (Apr 11, 2011)

meggles said:


> Hi I am new on here and just dont know what to do, well I know what i will do as i love my dog just feel like all vets are afteris your money.
> I have a British Bulldog he will be 8 in January. I got him when he was 1 and within a few weeks of having him he was scabby and loosing fur. I was insured through pet insurance so took him to vets who diagnosed him as having demodex mange. After a year of treatment and continuos baths (alludex) the pet insurance ppl would not cover us for it anymore when it came to renewal. I then got refered to a dermotologist who continued to give baths and invomectin. And still no impprovement after being treat at the vets for over 3 years I just could not afford it anymore and contacted the breeder who we got the dog off (IMO he knew the dog had mange when we bought him) he said he could get the shampoo for us at half the cost the vets charged so I went down this route. I think although he has never got better I have managed to keep the pain down and the scratching as best as possible but he has just had a nasty outbreak so I decided to try the new vets he now goes to (after not going to the vets for 3 yrs) Anyhow they said they have never seen that many mites on a living dog in all their years of practising. But she also says that she doesnt think he will be cured as some dogs just cant be. She has given me antibiotics invomec and painkillers, she wants to do this for 6 months and really blitz it to see if this gets rid of it. It is going to cost me £200pm. But she also noticed a big lump in one of his testicles and thinks he could have cancer and would like that to be removed and tested. that will cost an extra £200. Obviously I will find the money to pay for it from somewhere as he is my little boy! but how can vets expect ppl to have this money? I looked on the internet and the price you can get these drugs for is at least half the cost the vets charge! When did vets become so money orientated. And is it worth paying £200pm for treatment when she doesnt think it will work?
> HELP


I can't believe your vets are charging you nearly £200 a month to treat this condition but i noticed from your post, they are using antibiotics to treat, which can get expensive, as I have found with my dog. My dog currently has dermodex mites (and he has it bad, has lost lots of fur) and it is costing me no where near this. he is treated with Malaseb shampoo and panomec. I'm not sure if your breed of dog can have panomec, as it is not suitable for all breeds of dogs such as collies. It is costing me around £10 per month to treat and I am seeing improvement, he has hair re-growth.

Is your vet sure there is nothing else going on with your dog? Have you considered allergies? The reason I say this is because my dog is 12 years old and it is rare for a dog of his age to get dermodex mites, however, he has a severe allergy to dust mites, which has created the right conditions for these mites, as well as the skin infections and hot spots he gets. He was also on steroids, which feeds the mite, the steroids have now been stopped A couple of months ago he was in a right mess with his skin. Pic below










He is bald all over practically. all his chest, face, tail , legs and his back by his bum is bald.

I really do understand the frustration of seeing your dog suffering like this, its heart breaking to see them like this. I have been told by the vet that Coles (my dog) will always now need medication for this condition, as it will just keep coming back, which I think will be the case for your dog too, unfortunately.

p.s. I've just done a little research on panomec and apparently, it is the same stuff as ivermectin.

HTH


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## meggles (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi yes we have tried everything as he has had it since he was a puppy well since we had him when he was 1. It is the anti-biotics that is costing the money but when i have looked online i can get them at a fraction of the cost but need a vet prescription for them. I just dont know if i can afford the £200 pm especially when the vet said that it might not work. But obviously I cant just leave him he is my baby. 
he has been tested for everything over the years we have had all the allergy tests etc. All the treatments available and I dont know what to do now. Who has £200 pm spare!:mad2:


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

> It is the anti-biotics that is costing the money but when i have looked online i can get them at a fraction of the cost but need a vet prescription for them


If you are happy with your vet's diagnosis and the treatment works, then ask for a prescription and buy them online. There is now legislation in place that they have to give a prescription if asked.

If you have a good relationship with your vet it may be better to have a chat and explain you can't afford the cost of buying from them and would like a prescription.


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## meggles (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks for the advice on prescriptions because of this I have managed to shop around (wasnt very keen on the vets I took him to as think they are just a business now) They were going to charge £17.46 per item for a prescription found a different vet that will charge £10. Also wondering as its the synulox that is costing so much money. could I not give him amoxicillan? I am going to get bubbas testicles removed but I am not going to find out if it is cancer as tbh I wouldnt have the money to fix it andI know if I found out he had it i would be overcome with guilt and would sell my partner his clothes etc to fund treatment. fingers crossed the drugs work for his mange. I think after 8 years I am at such a low with it still being no further forward. And it has now blighted my view on vets.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

I haven't read through all of the thread yet as I'm just about to leave for home (I will read it in detail when I get home). However it sounds like you are in a similar situation to us.

Harvey was diagnosed with demodectic mange at 1 year old (although he was back and forth with skin problems prior to that). There is always an underlying issue with it and I now truely believe that vets need to make a concerted effort to get to the bottom of that as well as addressing the present skin infections, etc. The problem is that you can deal with the problem but unless the underlying cause is addressed it has the potential to come back again and again and again.

Unfortunately, we have now used up all insurance for this condition (around £8.5k). We're now at the point where if he has another flare up we will potentially try Ivemectin, however there are certain tests that need to be done to make sure that he is a suitable candidate for it. He is presently on steroids, which we are weaning him off of, he gets weekly treatments of Advocate, weekly treatments of Allederm (I think this is relatively new but it does seem to help somewhat), and antibiotic injections as soon as he starts to get any skin infection. The last injection was around 4 weeks ago, but he looks like he is getting another infection so we will need to take him back for another jab. These injections cost around £100 each.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

A lot of dogs can have the demodex mite present in small numbers and it doesnt cause any problems, as the immune system keeps them under control.
It might be worth thinking about giving him supplements that may boost his skin condition/health and/or immune system as well.

Bionic Biotic is a good allround supplement that you can get in Pets at home but if you want to have a look at that. Dog Health Supplements | Natural Remedies for dogs

There is also Yumega Plus another supplement to calm sensitive skin and supports skin health Dog & Cat Supplements, Proven To Improve Your Pet also available at pets at home.

Dermacton has also helped with some terrible skin problems again its all natural actnd comes in shampoo bar, spray or cream. Details of some of the cases it has helped and details of the product
Photos

All things that have certainly helped in a lot of cases, and a lot less then £200 a month if they do make an improvement. To be honest unless your og has secondary infection to his skin or is at severe risk of bacterial infection, I wouldnt think that the antibiotics woul actually do anything for the Demodectic mange itself to be honest.


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## Snoringbear (Sep 26, 2008)

When my first dog had repeated episodes of demodex, the vet advised me to use advocate instead of frontline as it apparently kill the mites. No idea if this is true or works as he died a few weeks later.


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## Quinzell (Mar 14, 2011)

Jugsmalone said:


> p.s. I've just done a little research on panomec and apparently, it is the same stuff as ivermectin.
> 
> HTH


Did you have to have your boy tested before he had the panomec? Harvey can't have the ivermectin injection until they've exhausted everything else as its not licensed for the use in non-cattle.....I'm wondering if they've changed this recently? It sounds like you've been through the mills too.


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## welshdoglover (Aug 31, 2009)

My dog had demodex mange and I tried all the usual treatments too; advocate and ivermectin. Neither of which cleared it up.

I put him onto a lamb only diet for a month to see if he was allergic to chicken or beef, and strangely enough his mange cleared up.

So I think it was an allergic reaction he was having, which presented the mange.


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## tripod (Feb 14, 2010)

I have unfortunately a lot of experience with this mange and it is yucky. Through having had hundreds of staffie, pibble and other bullie fosters direct from the pound I see this A LOT!

Demodex will be diagnosed as such after the presence of demodectic mites in skin scrapings. Usually there are lots of mites of this type present on a scraping but several scrappings will be required. 

It is, upon last research I came across, a congenital disease. All dogs have these mites present as a normal part of the dermal fauna but in some dogs they reproduce, infest and cause skin inflammation etc. It is not known exactly why this occurs in some and not others.

Immune sufficiency is certainly a contributing factor as the disease is likely in adults who have a compromised immune response. Otherwise it is more likely seen in dogs under 9 months. 

The dogs I tend to see it in are adults who have come through a very stressful time and are prob not coming from the best lives anyway.

The first thing I do with these dogs is to look at diet so as to be supportive as possible to overall health and especially immune function. I add zinc and omegas to this making sure to have a high does of omega 3 to keep omega 6 in check. Certain enzyme deficiencies may cause a dog to lack the ability to convert fatty acids from one form to another and many cheaper foods will be too high in cheaper omega 3 which has been shown to contribute to skin inflammation. Lamb has really good proprotions of omegas but beef is very low. Unrefined fish oils are the best sources (not fish liver oils).
I also make sure their diet contains lots and lots of vitamin E with supporting minerals e.g. magnesium.

I feed them up and keep them low stress - a bit of a detox both nutritionally and behaviourally you could say!

We usually start with advocat but will use ivermectin where possible. We also use antibiotics and anti-inflammatories too to reduce bacterial infection and increase comfort.

I wash them very regularly using an anti parasite low residue shampoo. Scrub them using a rubber brush to remove as much dead skin as possible.
For the last rinse of shampoo I use my secret weapon (!) - half warm water/half Apple Cider Vinegar.
I leave that on for about 10 mins and then towel dry.

Usually within two-three weeks of this intensive treatment new lesions cease to appear. We will usually skin scrap every three weeks and continue to treat until we have two clear skin scrapes before stopping.

I would be exceptionally concerned about a dog that has been treated on and off for years. I have never had a recurrence of demodex in any dog (touch wood!) and there were some that have been in their new home for years. This is very much an indication of immune problems and I wonder if there is an auto-immune condition present. What sort of diagnostic tests have been done on this dog? What diet is the dog on?


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## meggles (Nov 16, 2011)

I have tried advocate, tried everything! thought he seemed abit better but he really scratched yesterday and its back to being bad again!!! am going to have to keep going with it tho but I am going to get it through prescription as alot cheaper than the vets!!!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

Your vets are more expensive because they are a business, with highly qualified staff, premises, expensive equipment. I am sure some overcharge, as with any business but they cannot possibly sell drugs for the online prices. They often pay more than that themselves.
I did a deal with my vet and got some long standing drugs inbetween the online and vets price. As he said, if everyone gets their drugs by prescription online their examination fees will have to rocket up to cover their costs. I think most have a fine line so that they are not overcharging on anything but take away their profit on certain things and they will have to put up their prices on others to make a living.

Your plumber who works from home with an old van and a little bit of equipment probably charges far more an hour than your vet does.


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