# Accidental breeding, had mismate jab but now showing signs of pregnancy. Advice pleas



## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

Our neighbours dog got into our backgarden when Holly was in season. Holly was out in the garden by herself at the time but i was watching her from the window as i cooking and she needed a wee. I then noticed my neighbours dog jump our 6 ft fence and i rushed out immediatly. The dog was straight on her and she yelped out in pain and the dog then withdrew. (was no tie) I phoned the vet and explained what happened and i was advised to get the jab asap and i took her down there a couple of hours later when they had an appointment available. 
Anyway she had the mismate jab but now shes showing signs of pregnancy and im absolutly terrified on what to do if she is. In the last few days she has gained alot of weight and the area around her back teats have enlarge considerably. she seems hungry all the time but i havent been feeding her extra as having the jab i thought she would be ok. Is it possible that the mis mate jab can fail? What do i do now? Im thinking mabe an immediate spay would be best as obviously this litter (if she is pregnant) isnt planned and i havent a clue what to do but then again i feel bad spaying her if she is pregnant. Would that be cruel? your opinions on this would be very much appreciated. I feel totally to blame as i know she shouldnt of gone outside without me but i thought she would be ok. May this be a lesson for me and other that are reading this too with a bitch in season


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Oh its not your fault hun. You have done everything you could have.

I am not to sure about the mis-mate failing, but i would say she is having a Phantom pregnancy.

What breed was the randy male? lol!

I would take her back to the vets and get her checked out. They will let you know if she is definately pregnant or not.


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Ive heard of bitches going on to have deformed pups or a pyo after being given the mismate.

I would discuss it with your vet. Its not a treatment without risk.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

hes got a few breeds in him Akita, German shephard, Rhodesian ridgeback. Looks like a tan and white akita (body wise) but has floppy ears and a german shephard shaped face. Im going to take her to the vets tomorrow but just wanted some advise before hand. Ill get her spayed if the vet suggests it best but will feel bad if she is pregnant as i suspect they would be fully formed by now. would be day 50 according to when i took her for the mismate. I really dont want puppies. i love pups but wouldnt have a clue how to rear them and worries of not being about to home them too seeing as they would be mongrols


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

She could be having a phantom.

Might be worth having her scanned or x-rayed so you know 100%, then take it from there.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

I would definately get her to the vet and see if she is definately pregnant. If she is then its down to you to decide what to do.

If you decide to let her go on with it then it'll be a case of lots of research and looking for great homes for pups.

Good luck and keep us updated!!!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I dont think there are many vets that would agree to spay a pregnant bitch and certainly not that far on. It would be high risk to the bitch and very immoral to kill the puppies.
Was this her first season, in which case she is rather young to have pups. If it is not her first season is there some reason why you have not had her spayed.
I hope the vet scans her and finds that it is a false pregnancy.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

Nonnie said:


> She could be having a phantom.
> 
> Might be worth having her scanned or x-rayed so you know 100%, then take it from there.


Thanks. Just read up about phantom pregnancies and it could well be. The vet said the mismate was reliable and i did get it done the same day as the mating took place plus there was no tie. i guess im worrying too much its just i was alarmed that she should have sudden weight gain and enlarged area near rear teats within a matter of days. i will ask vet to get her scanned and see what he suggests would be the best thing to do


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

It's certainly not immoral to spay her during pregnancy and IMO far more responsible than going ahead with an accidental litter. However, it is not without risks especially this far on although neither is whelping. What breed is your girl as it sounds like the dog is a large one. If she is a smaller breed then it could give her problems with whelping. 
What mismate did the vet use. The modern ones are more reliable so hopefully it will be ok.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

Blitz said:


> I dont think there are many vets that would agree to spay a pregnant bitch and certainly not that far on. It would be high risk to the bitch and very immoral to kill the puppies.
> Was this her first season, in which case she is rather young to have pups. If it is not her first season is there some reason why you have not had her spayed.
> I hope the vet scans her and finds that it is a false pregnancy.


She was two in November and it was her third season. We were planning to get her spayed next month (so in between seasons as vet advised). we originally wanted to get her spayed at 6 months but the vet refused saying she was too young and we had to wait untill she was fully mature at two years so this being the reason why we are getting her spayed next month. I just went by what the vet said as they know better than me i supose. I really do hope there are no pups too as i havent got a clue what to do with welping etc and finding responsible homes for them and i know being mixed breed will probably have difficulty homing them


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## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

its definatly not your fault, you have done all you can so far!!
I dont have any advice im afraid but im sure whatever happens it will be the best for your girl. Good luck and I hope everything goes well whatever you decide to do. Keep us posted


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## LostGirl (Jan 16, 2009)

i agree agree defo not your fault, good luck at the vets  

Ive heard they can get phantoms after the mismate jab so fingers crossed this is it.xx


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Oh dear, poor you and poor girl....sadly, these things do happen...that old saying 'nature will find a way'....i really hope it is a phantom pregnacy. Let us know how you get on.....xxxx


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

My lil Babies said:


> She was two in November and it was her third season. We were planning to get her spayed next month (so in between seasons as vet advised). we originally wanted to get her spayed at 6 months but the vet refused saying she was too young and we had to wait untill she was fully mature at two years so this being the reason why we are getting her spayed next month. I just went by what the vet said as they know better than me i supose. I really do hope there are no pups too as i havent got a clue what to do with welping etc and finding responsible homes for them and i know being mixed breed will probably have difficulty homing them


I think most people on here would agree you are right to wait till at least one season before spaying. I am quite surprised a vet recommended waiting two seasons though. They seem so split on it, I had a lecture from my vet for refusing to get Candy spayed till she had had a season.
I know that the vets I worked for would not have spayed a pregnant bitch and my neighbour had an accidental pregnancy with her bitch who was too young. She booked it into be spayed but the vets refused to do it.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2010)

Good News!!! It doesnt look as though she is pregnant. The vet couldnt do a ultra scan as didnt have enough time before the next appointment but checked her over and palpated her and said he didnt think she was pregnant but if i wanted to be sure i can book her in for a scan on tuesday (although he did mention if she was carrying just one or two puppies they could hide out of the way under her ribcage.) But he said As there was no tie, had the mismate and the fact he cant feel anything i can take it shes not pregnant. Im going for the scan just to be sure though. £80 for a scan seems real expensive though? or is that about right? I dont mind i have the money to pay for it but just seemed expensive to me. The vet also did say if she was pregnant that he would advise against spaying as there is a high risk to Holly at this late stage and had it been earlier he would be more willing to do that. But like i said he thinks shes ok so im happy now.
He did mention about phantom pregnancy aswell and said it was extremly common. If scan comes back with no puppies then she is being booked in for a spay in three weeks time. Thanks for everyone who took the time to reply


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## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

woooo thats great news. Hope all goes well in the future. You can now relax and enjoy her


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

Thats good - 80.00 phew !!! that is a lot, my scan cost only 30.00 !! money grabbing bleeders.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

80 quid is ridiculous. I wouldn't bother, all evidence points to her not being pregnant.


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

My lil Babies said:


> Good News!!! It doesnt look as though she is pregnant. The vet couldnt do a ultra scan as didnt have enough time before the next appointment but checked her over and palpated her and said he didnt think she was pregnant but if i wanted to be sure i can book her in for a scan on tuesday (although he did mention if she was carrying just one or two puppies they could hide out of the way under her ribcage.) But he said As there was no tie, had the mismate and the fact he cant feel anything i can take it shes not pregnant. Im going for the scan just to be sure though. £80 for a scan seems real expensive though? or is that about right? I dont mind i have the money to pay for it but just seemed expensive to me. The vet also did say if she was pregnant that he would advise against spaying as there is a high risk to Holly at this late stage and had it been earlier he would be more willing to do that. But like i said he thinks shes ok so im happy now.
> He did mention about phantom pregnancy aswell and said it was extremly common. If scan comes back with no puppies then she is being booked in for a spay in three weeks time. Thanks for everyone who took the time to reply


80!!!! id ring round for a sheep scanner in your area, its about 25 ish here and they are far more efficient at finding hidden pups than the vets as its all they do. its like doing to the doctors for a filling, they are quite capable of doing it, but wouldnt you rather use a dentist who does the same procedure day in day out?


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## GillyR (Nov 2, 2009)

i wouldnt bother either tbh ...but, if you want to, have you got a a pet vaccination centre in your area?


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## tiddlypup (Oct 4, 2008)

My lil Babies said:


> Our neighbours dog got into our backgarden when Holly was in season. Holly was out in the garden by herself at the time but i was watching her from the window as i cooking and she needed a wee. I then noticed my neighbours dog jump our 6 ft fence and i rushed out immediatly. The dog was straight on her and she yelped out in pain and the dog then withdrew. (was no tie) I phoned the vet and explained what happened and i was advised to get the jab asap and i took her down there a couple of hours later when they had an appointment available.
> Anyway she had the mismate jab but now shes showing signs of pregnancy and im absolutly terrified on what to do if she is. In the last few days she has gained alot of weight and the area around her back teats have enlarge considerably. she seems hungry all the time but i havent been feeding her extra as having the jab i thought she would be ok. Is it possible that the mis mate jab can fail? What do i do now? Im thinking mabe an immediate spay would be best as obviously this litter (if she is pregnant) isnt planned and i havent a clue what to do but then again i feel bad spaying her if she is pregnant. Would that be cruel? your opinions on this would be very much appreciated. I feel totally to blame as i know she shouldnt of gone outside without me but i thought she would be ok. May this be a lesson for me and other that are reading this too with a bitch in season


a friends staff had the mismate jab,gave birth to a happy healthy pied pup,they called her bandit,made a nice little dog


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## Lindsey Barnes (Jan 22, 2010)

These mismate jabs are not very reliable. You need to have two to be sure. I am a breeder and I had a mismating and used the mismate, all it did was cause me more vet bills. It got rid of most of the puppies and I was left with one, when you have a solo puppy quite often there is no trigger for the bitch to start whelping. This happened to me and I had to have a ceasarean for one enormous puppy. 

This has happened to a friend of mine also where they had a ceasarean and the few puppies left were dead. Your vet should have advised you of the risk.

I have no experience of spaying a bitch whilst in pregnancy. By the time I realised my bitch was pregnant the puppy visibly moving about and there was only a week to go. You must go and see your vet.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Would you like me to ask the Rott folks on my forum if they know of someone who scans in your area?? I'm sure they dont pay anywhere near that much for a scan


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## ally (Feb 5, 2009)

Is your dog a breeding bitch and that is why she hasn't been spayed? I think that unless you intend to breed (which is a bad idea at this time anyway) then all dogs should be neutered to prevent this sort of thing occuring and to protect the bitches particularly from life threatening illnesses preventable by spaying.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

She's already explained that she wanted to get her bitch spayed at 6 months and her vet advised against that, recommending that the bitch reach maturity first - I for one agree with the vet


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

Jo P said:


> Would you like me to ask the Rott folks on my forum if they know of someone who scans in your area?? I'm sure they dont pay anywhere near that much for a scan


yes that would be great thank you. I have googled but cant find anything thats close. there are a few mobile ones i found but too far away and although will travel they charge 25p per mile round trip + £25 for the scan which works out at about the same price as the vet is charging anyway. Ive got the scan booked for tuesday so if there isnt one near by dont worry ill just get it done there.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

Lindsey Barnes said:


> These mismate jabs are not very reliable. You need to have two to be sure. I am a breeder and I had a mismating and used the mismate, all it did was cause me more vet bills. It got rid of most of the puppies and I was left with one, when you have a solo puppy quite often there is no trigger for the bitch to start whelping. This happened to me and I had to have a ceasarean for one enormous puppy.
> 
> This has happened to a friend of mine also where they had a ceasarean and the few puppies left were dead. Your vet should have advised you of the risk.
> 
> I have no experience of spaying a bitch whilst in pregnancy. By the time I realised my bitch was pregnant the puppy visibly moving about and there was only a week to go. You must go and see your vet.


My vet didnt say anything about this when i took her for the mismate. i left confidently thinking it would work.

She has been back to the vet since. Ive mentioned that a bit further up. vet is confident she isnt pregnant but im going back for a scan on tuesday to be sure. my vet did say if she was pregnant he would advise not to spay but didnt say he wouldnt do it.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

My friend said to tell you to try googling 'wilkinson mobile scanning' - she doesnt know if they do your area but will be worth checking


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## wooliewoo (May 27, 2008)

Hope you find a better scanner, my vet charges £28 for scan (which i thought cheap as its £ 30 for a consultation!!!!)

I know someone who used the mismate and their girl had to have 2 jabs............

What ever happens scan wise hope its good news


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## rocco33 (Dec 27, 2009)

There are two mismate jabs that are used, the older one (I can't remember what it is called) carried some risk (although so does pregnancy) but there were cases where the bitch went on to have pups. More recently, Alizin has been used and found far more affective with fewer side effects - it can also be used up to 45 days after a mating takes place. That was why I asked in my post which mismate the vet had used.


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

any updates??


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## ally (Feb 5, 2009)

Jo P said:


> She's already explained that she wanted to get her bitch spayed at 6 months and her vet advised against that, recommending that the bitch reach maturity first - I for one agree with the vet


We've always neutered our dogs at 6 months and our vets here recommends it. In fact our old vet didn't want to spay Ruby at 6 months but as he said it was our decision as she is our dog. We've never had any problems and that is the way a majority of vets work.


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## lizward (Feb 29, 2008)

I'd say it is most unlikely the bitch is pregnant. There are no circumstances short of extreme welfare issues such as we do not see in the UK under which I would ever spay a pregnant animal, let alone one this late! As for the "mismate injection" being used at such a late stage, all that will mean is the bitch giving brith to perfectly formed pups which may at this stage even be born alive but will not survive. Is that REALLY what any of you would want to do? I had a cat miscarry at five weeks once and believe me it was very obvious that they were kittens!

Liz


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

rocco33 said:


> There are two mismate jabs that are used, the older one (I can't remember what it is called) carried some risk (although so does pregnancy) but there were cases where the bitch went on to have pups. More recently, Alizin has been used and found far more affective with fewer side effects - it can also be used up to 45 days after a mating takes place. That was why I asked in my post which mismate the vet had used.


Im sorry i cant recall what the injection was called. but dont think it was Alizin as when i phoned the vets and explained the situation i was in The vet said i needed to bring her in asap and before 72hrs had passed for it to be successful which i did. i took her in the same day.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

She is pregnant. scan showed two pups. Vet said he wasnt happy to spay and said it would be with less risk to let her have them so thats what is going to happen. He said i dont have much time to get everything i need so i need it sorted asap as puppies can be born pretty much anytime from now but average at about 62 days. she is 55 days. Husband is currently making a welping box. ive bought a few bottles from vet incase she doesnt feed them. and just trying to get a list together of all the things i need to get. so can anyone help? Im also printing alot of stuff of the internet about welping etc so if you know of any good sites or can give me your own personal advise it would be very much apreaciated. Vets given me a number i can call 24/7 should an emergancy occur like a c/section or probs with welping. Im in total shock. i really wasnt expecting there to be puppies. im so glad i went for the scan otherwise id of been in bigger trouble than i am now.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

ally said:


> We've always neutered our dogs at 6 months and our vets here recommends it. In fact our old vet didn't want to spay Ruby at 6 months but as he said it was our decision as she is our dog. We've never had any problems and that is the way a majority of vets work.


What breed do you own Ally?


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

Jo P said:


> My friend said to tell you to try googling 'wilkinson mobile scanning' - she doesnt know if they do your area but will be worth checking


Ive only just seen your post and now had the scan. It wasnt £80 i must of misheard it was £60. Still alot but a bit better than £80


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## RachyBobs (Oct 18, 2009)

Oh my.. you will need bitch milk replacer incase she wont feed them thats a must, dental floss to tie the cords, plenty of towels, vanilla ice cream helps them in the birthing process too, vet bed - easy clean, hoover and its lovley and soft for babies, heat lamp or mat. There is a thread at the top of this page that has a list of whelping essentails. 

Dont rely on the scanner for being accurate. I was told 3-4 and had 11  so prepare for more, you may have 2 you may not but being prepared for than expected is always good. xx


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

oh me dont worry you did wat u thot and wat was right!!! just try relax and be prepaired everyone on here will help u xx


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

Good thing you got the scan. Hope all goes well and that you keep us all updated. I'm sure you will get lots of tips on here re: the whelping kit.....Jill


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

ally said:


> We've always neutered our dogs at 6 months and our vets here recommends it. In fact our old vet didn't want to spay Ruby at 6 months but as he said it was our decision as she is our dog. We've never had any problems and that is the way a majority of vets work.


Do you have any stastics to prove that the majority of vets work that way?????????? Most of my friends who have rotts, who live all over the UK would back me up when I say the majority of our vets would not advice a Rottweiler be spayed or neutered until they reach maturity unless it was for a medical reason e.g. retained testicle 
I'm sure the lady in question could have gone searching for another vet who would spay but I for one am glad she stayed with the one who didnt recommend it.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm sorry she's pregnant but you did what you could, dont beat yourself up about it now. Do you have a friend who has ever had puppies?? Could they be on call to be with you and your girl when she goes into labour - I'd be petrified if she was mine cos I've never had a litter and wouldnt have a clue what signs to look for of something going wrong!! I know there are lots of knowledgeable breeders on here who will help you every step of the way.
Best Of Luck and keep us up-to-date please


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## alaun (Jul 21, 2009)

Good job you had the scan, at least you have a few days to prepare. Collect clean newspapers - ask friends to save theirs and maybe ask at a local newsagents to give you clean unsold ones. Collect old towels. 

People on here will be only too willing to help - they're a really helpful bunch. 
There is a thread on here called the diary of a first time litter - or something similar - it's well worth a read. I'm sure you'll be fine. Keep us updated.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

Something i forgot to mention to the vet is what do we do with Riley our other Rottie? Must he be kept away from Holly all the time after the pups are born? We are going to set up the welping area in our dining room as its the quietest room where we only go to eat but will eat on our laps in living room for the time the puppies are in there. I need to buy some more worming tablets. i usually buy drontal large tabs but not sure if these are safe to use in pregnancy.


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi hun, i am sorry she is pregnant because you didn't want babies. But on the other hand congrats!

You did all you could hun, so please stop worrying about that! Now its a case of getting as much knowledge on the birthing process and raising pups as you can.

I would normally advise getting the 'book of the bitch' but there isn't enough time!!

There is many threads on here about it all and a lot of brilliant breeders to talk to.

I am now quite excited about it all (sad i know!!) and i am sure you will be too when the shock is settled.
xxxx


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

Jo P said:


> I'm sorry she's pregnant but you did what you could, dont beat yourself up about it now. Do you have a friend who has ever had puppies?? Could they be on call to be with you and your girl when she goes into labour - I'd be petrified if she was mine cos I've never had a litter and wouldnt have a clue what signs to look for of something going wrong!! I know there are lots of knowledgeable breeders on here who will help you every step of the way.
> Best Of Luck and keep us up-to-date please


no i dont really know anyone close by. A friend had a litter of border collies a few years ago but she lives too far away (cornwall) although i do speak to her on facebook so can probably answer any questions i have. Im just reading up lots at the mo and looking through other readers threads on here



alaun said:


> Good job you had the scan, at least you have a few days to prepare. Collect clean newspapers - ask friends to save theirs and maybe ask at a local newsagents to give you clean unsold ones. Collect old towels.
> 
> People on here will be only too willing to help - they're a really helpful bunch.
> There is a thread on here called the diary of a first time litter - or something similar - it's well worth a read. I'm sure you'll be fine. Keep us updated.


Thanks for advise. Ive lots of towels so im ok there. and will go out and buy the lots of newspapers if i have to :smile5:



Acacia86 said:


> Hi hun, i am sorry she is pregnant because you didn't want babies. But on the other hand congrats!
> 
> You did all you could hun, so please stop worrying about that! Now its a case of getting as much knowledge on the birthing process and raising pups as you can.
> 
> ...


Yeah i am shocked and not too excited at the mo. in fact im really nervous. im scared of something going wrong. id hate anything to happen to Holly but ive got a 24hr vet only a 5 min car journey away which is reasuring and do have enough money should she need a c/section.

I havent been feeding her extra but what ive read she is supose to be on a little more now so im going to add a little more from tomorrow and feed smaller meals freqently. not sure if i should switch to a puppy food though. ive read people saying to do this but ive also read that the last couple of weeks to keep on a high premium food but not use puppy food as it has too much calcium in it which can make the body think it doesnt have to produce millk or little of it??? so any help here would be good as i dont want holly or the pups to be sick


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

RachyBobs said:


> Oh my.. you will need bitch milk replacer incase she wont feed them thats a must, dental floss to tie the cords, plenty of towels, vanilla ice cream helps them in the birthing process too, vet bed - easy clean, hoover and its lovley and soft for babies, heat lamp or mat. There is a thread at the top of this page that has a list of whelping essentails.
> 
> Dont rely on the scanner for being accurate. I was told 3-4 and had 11  so prepare for more, you may have 2 you may not but being prepared for than expected is always good. xx


OMG 11 puppies!!! I hope the scan is right with 2. Is the replacement milk easy to get hold of? im guessing the vet should sell it. i got some feeding bottles from there earlier but didnt ask for the replacement milk as my head was in a bit of a mess and wasnt thinking properly or does anywhere else sell some that i can buy fairly quickly?


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## alaun (Jul 21, 2009)

My lil Babies said:


> OMG 11 puppies!!! I hope the scan is right with 2. Is the replacement milk easy to get hold of? im guessing the vet should sell it. i got some feeding bottles from there earlier but didnt ask for the replacement milk as my head was in a bit of a mess and wasnt thinking properly or does anywhere else sell some that i can buy fairly quickly?


Our vet usually stocks whelpi - but its very expensive from him. I would buy one tub and then buy more later on the web if you need to. You might even be able to get it from pets at home.


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

Do you have a vet/farm chemist anywhere near you?
We have one called ''farmcare'' and we have ''tarff'' that sell puppy milk a whole lot cheaper than the vet.
Actually even pets at home sell it, probably cheaper than the vet.
If you just get a wee tub to begin with, then if its not needed, or you don't need much, no wories and if you need more then you can easily get it.

x


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## RachyBobs (Oct 18, 2009)

My lil Babies said:


> OMG 11 puppies!!! I hope the scan is right with 2. Is the replacement milk easy to get hold of? im guessing the vet should sell it. i got some feeding bottles from there earlier but didnt ask for the replacement milk as my head was in a bit of a mess and wasnt thinking properly or does anywhere else sell some that i can buy fairly quickly?


You can get whelpi from the vet or skinners bitch milk replacer, or we used sherleys lactol

Skinners Puppy Milk 5kg-Hyperdrug

Sherleys Lactol 15kg Other Cat Health for Sale


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks will go to pets at home tomorrow morning. I may be able to find some other stuff there i need too. 
Vet bed - Ive seen it on Ebay but Does anyone know of any places i can buy this and get next day delivery? dont trust ebay sellers to send straight away as had a few bad experiences on there and waited weeks for items. If she has pups in the meantime whats the best thing to use. ive an old duvet. would that be ok to use or not?


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## SEVEN_PETS (Aug 11, 2009)

My lil Babies said:


> Thanks will go to pets at home tomorrow morning. I may be able to find some other stuff there i need too.
> Vet bed - Ive seen it on Ebay but Does anyone know of any places i can buy this and get next day delivery? dont trust ebay sellers to send straight away as had a few bad experiences on there and waited weeks for items. If she has pups in the meantime whats the best thing to use. ive an old duvet. would that be ok to use or not?


you can buy vet bed from pets at home. I've seen it but I don't know if it would do sheets big enough. maybe have a look in there, or if not, look around at any local pet shops.


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## RachyBobs (Oct 18, 2009)

My lil Babies said:


> Thanks will go to pets at home tomorrow morning. I may be able to find some other stuff there i need too.
> Vet bed - Ive seen it on Ebay but Does anyone know of any places i can buy this and get next day delivery? dont trust ebay sellers to send straight away as had a few bad experiences on there and waited weeks for items. If she has pups in the meantime whats the best thing to use. ive an old duvet. would that be ok to use or not?


pets4homes might sell it, ive never been! i get mine from farmway.

DOG PRODUCTS / Dog Bedding / Vetbed

they do a next day delievery service

in the mean time, a towel or something easily washed will do. during labour each pup has a sack, its full of liquid and gunge so something old and easy to wash is better than having vetbed getting soaked! x


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

RachyBobs said:


> pets4homes might sell it, ive never been! i get mine from farmway.
> 
> DOG PRODUCTS / Dog Bedding / Vetbed
> 
> ...


ok thank you


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## Wheelspinny.linny (Jan 3, 2010)

Pets at home definately do sell Vet Bed this is found by the pet bed section, they have it on offer at the moment, I know as I was looking at it incase my bitch is pregnant (find out Friday).

Dont use this for welping, old towels, sheets are best as some of the discharge stains and you cant get it out whatever you use. I was looking at getting x 3, one for use, one in wash and one drying.

Just for your reference they dont do anything else for whelping really, I looked for little bands for the pups and feeding bottles just incase. As time is of the essence I would just get alot of old towels and newspapers.

I wish you all the best and hope everything goes smoothly!


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## Guinevere13 (Mar 31, 2008)

Before the days of vetbed we used towels and sheets with newspaper underneath for absorbency and just changed them when they got wet or dirty. 
I hope everything goes well, the main thing is not to panic as the dog can pick it up from you. You will know if she is distressed. Fingers crossed and good luck.


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## RachyBobs (Oct 18, 2009)

yes stash the newspapers! ask everyone to keep them for you, you can never have too many!


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## wooliewoo (May 27, 2008)

Oh bit of a shock but you had an idea something wasnt right, Im sure all will go well. 

I gave Lucy puppy food as well as normal food during last week. I asked vet and she said as long as she is on Puppy food when pups were here. It more a case of smaller meals more often as pups will be taking up space in tum so less room for food. She was having eggs daily aswell

You mentioned worming, i wouldnt worm at this late stage without asking vet which one ......if shes up to date with worming she will be wormed when pups are 2 weeks anyway,

Whelping box really needs newpapers only at mo so she can have a good scratch about and i put vetbed in when pups were here (i actually used an old towel cut into puppy sizes for birth as you may need to hold them to clean:blush

Keep us all posted we love puppies!!!


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## VickyF (Nov 26, 2009)

Hi we also had surprise puppies as our non related purebred pedigree Rottweilers had 5 male pups after our male burst out of his cage when we nipped out.We used Sirleys lactol gold for our pups from pets at home at first as she seemed to not have enough milk but the runt died after 4 days seemed to have breathing probs.We used dog crates with an attatched babies fire guard to make a safe area for the pups.The male slept in his crate on the other side of the room.She started going into labour unusually between 5&6am so all plans went out of the window.She had got out of her cage and had given birth to 2 pups on the lino we thought we had cats in the dining area its a strange sound newborns do.I dont think its a good idea to use a duvet as the pups might suffocate in it.Hope all goes well.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

VickyF said:


> Hi we also had surprise puppies as our non related purebred pedigree Rottweilers had 5 male pups after our male burst out of his cage when we nipped out.We used Sirleys lactol gold for our pups from pets at home at first as she seemed to not have enough milk but the runt died after 4 days seemed to have breathing probs.We used dog crates with an attatched babies fire guard to make a safe area for the pups.The male slept in his crate on the other side of the room.She started going into labour unusually between 5&6am so all plans went out of the window.She had got out of her cage and had given birth to 2 pups on the lino we thought we had cats in the dining area its a strange sound newborns do.I dont think its a good idea to use a duvet as the pups might suffocate in it.Hope all goes well.


Thanks for the advise.
Your rotts are gorgeous by the way x


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## huskiesaregreat (Sep 24, 2009)

wow you haven't got long to prepare, bet you're glad you had the scan done
Good luck and don't worry too much


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

My lil Babies said:


> Thanks will go to pets at home tomorrow morning. I may be able to find some other stuff there i need too.
> Vet bed - Ive seen it on Ebay but Does anyone know of any places i can buy this and get next day delivery? dont trust ebay sellers to send straight away as had a few bad experiences on there and waited weeks for items. If she has pups in the meantime whats the best thing to use. ive an old duvet. would that be ok to use or not?


Vet Bedding, British Wool Rug, Veterinary Bedding, Merino Wool Beds, Pet beds from BRONTE GLEN, UK

cheap and fast delivery


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## alaun (Jul 21, 2009)

Tanya1989 said:


> Vet Bedding, British Wool Rug, Veterinary Bedding, Merino Wool Beds, Pet beds from BRONTE GLEN, UK
> 
> cheap and fast delivery


We get ours from there - they're not far from us, really good quality.


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## Lucylewis0 (Aug 4, 2009)

omg, i have just read your thread!!!

ok.........
take a look at Cat heat pads | Whelping boxes | Heat pads from Petnap Ltd website thay are really great for whelping bits and super fast delivery, ring a speak to them and they will send next day.
They do everything!!!!!

good luck hunni

Get you girl on a good puppy complete food, introduce the new food over a few day tho as it might upset her tummy, worm with mibermax (from your vet) and ask all the questions new need on here, we are all very happy to help xxxx


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

Thanks everybody. ive ordered everything i need and expecting delivery tomorrow. Welping box has been made. Its rather large so probably be ok to use throughout as a puppy pen too. only thing im a bit confused with is to use a heat lamp or mat. i wasnt sure so bought both although im sure both wont be needed as our home is warm anyway but realise we may have to drop the temp a bit so Holly feels comfortable


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

for a big breed id always recommend a mat rather than lamp, mum can get away from mat but not a lamp


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## wooliewoo (May 27, 2008)

I agree, our Boxer had a mat as she was able to move away from the heat while pups slept on it hen they wanted (with sheepskin on top)


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## huskiesaregreat (Sep 24, 2009)

i want to see puppy pics when they are born


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## Debs61 (May 20, 2009)

Wishing you lots of luck
we had a mat for our CKCS pups, we got everything from Petnap on ebay..really nice people there.
Hubby made the whelping box, it was brill...lol.

Keep us up todate
We used Lactol Gold for our girl, if you cant get that then evaporated milk watered down is good aswell. Get some glucose to put in some water so she can drink during labour. 
(Ive never actually tried the vanilla ice cream..do you just give her some in a bowl??)


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2010)

Hi thanks everyone. will use the mat then and send lamp back. Im now wondering what they are going to look like as they will be quite a strange cross. Dad looks alot like a Akita but can see german shepherd in him too. owner says he thinks he has rhodesian ridgeback in him as well. Ive told my neigbough about Holly and hes apologised but i said it wasnt his fault. His dog has never tried jumping the fence in the year ive lived here and didnt think he would be able to either as hes quite a stocky boy (not fat just big built). He said after this happening hes decided to get his boy castrated and if i have trouble trying to rehome the puppies he would have one as was thinking of getting another dog at some point anyway. Holly is definatly gonna be spayed too as soon as the vet says its ok to do so after having the puppies. Im still not too relaxed though. im trying not to stress. Hopefully everything goes smoothly but i know this often doesnt happen so am prepared. As for Holly. Shes just her normal active self. She doesnt particually look or act as though shes pregnant. only tailtale signs are her back teats which are getting bigger. shes a little wider on the waist but to anyone who doesnt know her they would think she just looks normal


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## jackson (May 22, 2008)

I read the first part of the thread before you'd had the scan, so excuse me if I have forgotten, but have you a copy of 'Book Of The Bitch' it has a fairly decent guide to whelping and what to expect as well as puppy care in it. It's invaluble. 


I have to say, I absolutely condemn so called 'accidental' litters, as most do not appear to be that accidental at all, or were at least preventable, but I really do think you should commend yourself on the way you have behaved here. You have done absolutely all you could for your bitch to prevent this pregnancy (maybe got some bad advice fromt he vet on the mismate, Alizin does require two injections and is most reliable, but that's hardly your fault) and still went to the expense of a scan to make sure despite the vet (and plenty of others) saying you needn't bother. Luckily for your bitch you did all you could for her. 

You have behaved extremely responsibly so far and if that is anything to go by, I am sure you'll sail through rearing these puppies and ensure they are provided great homes. 

I really don't intend to be patronising, but really, very well done. If only all owners were so consciencious.


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## EmCHammer (Dec 28, 2009)

My friend has a rottie x Akita type dog.... will try to post piccies but haven't got many.

He is rottie colouring and size, big solid rottie head, curlyish tail he is leaner and lankier than a rottie. He has a very thick (double??) akita type coat. He is 3 now and still doesn't look like he has grown into his skin. He is very talkative (not sure if this is the famous rottie rumble) and he has amazing amber eyes.


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## canuckjill (Jun 25, 2008)

My lil Babies said:


> Hi thanks everyone. will use the mat then and send lamp back. Im now wondering what they are going to look like as they will be quite a strange cross. Dad looks alot like a Akita but can see german shepherd in him too. owner says he thinks he has rhodesian ridgeback in him as well. Ive told my neigbough about Holly and hes apologised but i said it wasnt his fault. His dog has never tried jumping the fence in the year ive lived here and didnt think he would be able to either as hes quite a stocky boy (not fat just big built). He said after this happening hes decided to get his boy castrated and if i have trouble trying to rehome the puppies he would have one as was thinking of getting another dog at some point anyway. Holly is definatly gonna be spayed too as soon as the vet says its ok to do so after having the puppies. Im still not too relaxed though. im trying not to stress. Hopefully everything goes smoothly but i know this often doesnt happen so am prepared. As for Holly. Shes just her normal active self. She doesnt particually look or act as though shes pregnant. only tailtale signs are her back teats which are getting bigger. shes a little wider on the waist but to anyone who doesnt know her they would think she just looks normal


The males owner sounds like a nice guy too....Jill


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## brackensmom (Jun 15, 2009)

wow just caught up on this, what a surprise for you, but well done you did all you could and are now again doing the best and all you can in prepartion for the birth, well done. Good luck and cant wait to see pics of these lovely pups.


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## zantewed (Jan 29, 2010)

hi, just been reading the whole post, wow u must be so shocked and scared at the same time. but wow how exciting. good luck and cant wait to see the pics 
Kelly x


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2010)

we have everything we need now but so far no signs of her going into labour. it took a while for her to take much notice of her welping box...she would just look at it and not much else but yesterday she went into the box on her own accord and started tearing at the paper and digging about. she even went to sleep in it instead of her normal bed. Shes actually in there now having a sleep. She is still very active and wanting lots of walks and still eating normally but was sick yesterday. Think the last time i ever remember her vomiting was when she was a pup. her meals are small and regular so dont think she was sick because she had too much at once.


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

My lil Babies said:


> we have everything we need now but so far no signs of her going into labour. it took a while for her to take much notice of her welping box...she would just look at it and not much else but yesterday she went into the box on her own accord and started tearing at the paper and digging about. she even went to sleep in it instead of her normal bed. Shes actually in there now having a sleep. She is still very active and wanting lots of walks and still eating normally but was sick yesterday. Think the last time i ever remember her vomiting was when she was a pup. her meals are small and regular so dont think she was sick because she had too much at once.


Good luck hope it all goes well for you


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## red dogues (Nov 27, 2009)

just read the post OMG what a shock for you. i am sure everything will go fine and cant wait to see the pics of mum and pups.


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## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

jackson said:


> I read the first part of the thread before you'd had the scan, so excuse me if I have forgotten, but have you a copy of 'Book Of The Bitch' it has a fairly decent guide to whelping and what to expect as well as puppy care in it. It's invaluble.
> 
> I have to say, I absolutely condemn so called 'accidental' litters, as most do not appear to be that accidental at all, or were at least preventable, but I really do think you should commend yourself on the way you have behaved here. You have done absolutely all you could for your bitch to prevent this pregnancy (maybe got some bad advice fromt he vet on the mismate, Alizin does require two injections and is most reliable, but that's hardly your fault) and still went to the expense of a scan to make sure despite the vet (and plenty of others) saying you needn't bother. Luckily for your bitch you did all you could for her.
> 
> ...


Wow I really like this post, its not often people get great praise like this and I totally agree with everything you have said. All the best with mum and pups, im sure everything will go well for you..... will keep checking for updates on this one x x


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Best of luck with whelping,i hope all goes well.It doesnt sound like it will be long now.


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Have you got a thermometer?? You could take her temp every day and when it dips below 100 F you'll know she's going into labour within the next day


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Found this for you to have a read of 

Stage One of Labor:

During the first stage of labor the cervix begins to dilate and uterine contractions begin. These contractions are painful and perplexing to the dog. She will appear quite uncomfortable and restless - pacing, shivering and panting. She probably will not eat and she may even vomit. Some dogs whine persistently. Others occupy themselves building a nest. Uterine contractions, although occurring, are not as easy to see as in humans. This is the longest stage of labor. It generally lasts six to eighteen hours. By the end of this period the dogs cervix will have completely dilated for the puppies to pass. During this period keep the mothers environment quiet and calm. I usually shut them off in a darkened area such as the bathroom.

Stage Two of Labor:

During the second stage of labor, uterine contractions begin in force. As this stage progresses the placental water sacks break and a straw-colored fluid is passed. Placentas are expelled after each puppy or sporadically during labor. Pups usually appear every half-hour or so after ten to thirty minutes of forceful straining. As the pups deliver, the mother will lick the puppy clean and bite off the umbilical cord. It is important to let the mother do this, if she will, because through this process she bonds with her puppies and learns to recognize them as her own. The rough licking of the mother stimulates the puppies to breathe and improves their circulation. The mother will probably eat some of the afterbirths. If the bitch does not tear away the sac and lick the pups to stimulate respiration, the owner should tear the sac open, clear all fluid away from the pup's nose and mouth, and vigorously rub the pup to stimulate breathing.


It is not uncommon, however, for the mother to take rests during labor and up to four hours can pass between some puppies. If more than four hours have passed without a puppy and you are certain more puppies are present take the dog to a veterinary hospital. Also seek assistance if the mother strains forcefully for over an hour without producing another pup. If you see the rear legs of a puppy protruding from the dogs vagina you can assist the mother by gently pulling the puppy in a downward and rearward arcing motion. You must do this very gently because puppies are fragile and easily hurt. It is normal for many puppies to be born rear feet first or breach. When a mother dog is stuck in incomplete labor the first thing I do is administer oxytocin and calcium to stimulate uterine contractions. If the puppies are too big to pass through the birth canal or the oxytocin fails to induce successful labor, I perform a cesarean section on the dog. 

Stage Three of Labor:

The concept of a third stage of labor is borrowed from human labor terms. It is a very indistinct period in dogs. Once all the puppies have been born the dog enters this third stage of labor during which time the uterus contracts fully, expelling any remaining placenta, blood and fluid.

Midwifery:

After thirty-two days of pregnancy the mothers appetite will begin to increase. She should begin to eat about twice as much as she used to. When the puppies come and she is producing milk, her food consumption should be about three times as much as it was before her pregnancy. 
Purchase a name brand puppy chow to feed her with during these periods. If you do so, there is no need to give her supplements of any kind. There is no need to restrict the mothers normal exercise but intensive exercise or work training should be curtailed.

Around the forty-fifth day, bring the pet in to be examined by a veterinarian. At this time the vet 
will be able to palpate the puppies and give you an indication of how many to expect. If you need to know earlier, then have an ultrasound examination performed about the twenty-fifth day. 
Blood progesterone levels can be tested about day 34 to confirm pregnancy. 

The puppies will be born still covered by their amniotic membrane. This membrane must be removed from the puppys face in order for it to breathe. Most momma dogs are very attentive to the newborn puppy and lick and tear the membrane off. If they are not or you just dont have the patience to wait, assist the dog in doing this. Peel the membrane away and remove mucous from the puppys mouth and nose with a soft towel. Tie a piece of dental floss or thread around the umbilical cord about an inch from the puppys belly button and cut the cord distal to the knot.

Serious Problems:

If the mother fails to go into labor within twenty-four hours after her body temperature drops to below 100F you should take the dog to a veterinarian. Do this also if you have calculated that more than 69 days have passed since the dog was bred.

Some dogs will suffer milk failure or insufficient milk before their puppies are weaned. This occurs in older dogs as well as dogs that have another concurrent health problem such as eclampsia, mastitis or systemic disease. These dogs need to be taken directly to a veterinarian the puppies supplemented or raised by hand. Signs that milk is inadequate are thin or lean puppies that cry consistently suck objects around them (or each other) and do not sleep. 

It is normal for the mother to run a low fever during the two days after giving birth. I become concerned if the fever is over 102.8, if the dog is drinking excessive water or if she is depressed. These may all be signs of a retained placenta (or puppy) or a uterine infection.

It is normal for the dog to have a vaginal discharge following birthing. This discharge normally has rusty reddish or greenish brown appearance. I become concerned when the discharge is pus-like or has a strong odor. This can also be a sign of retained placenta and uterine infection (metritis). Normal cleansing of the uterus can last as long as eight weeks.

Normal mother dogs are bright, alert and attentive to their puppies. She should have a ravenous appetite as she converts metabolites to milk. I become concerned if the mother shows any signs of listlessness or depression. She also needs to visit a veterinarian if she is not attentive to her puppies. 

Check the mothers milk flow. It should flow with only the slightest of finger pressure.


Eclampsia or Milk Fever:

Eclampsia is actually a glandular problem in which the parathyroid gland does not secrete sufficient calcium-releasing hormone. When it does occur, this problem happens just before or within 3-4 weeks after welping. Milk fever is an acute, life-threatening condition. It is most common in small breeds with large litters. Mother dogs become disoriented, stiff, nervous and restless. They loose interest in her puppies. In severe cases they will have muscle spasms, seizures and be unable to walk. The mother may run a fever and have a rapid heart rate. . This problem results from low blood calcium as the mothers body prepares to produce calcium-rich milk. I treat it by administering intravenous 10% calcium gluconate at 0.25-0.75ml/pound/hour. Affected dogs return to normal in fifteen minutes or less. Then I either wean the puppies or place the mother on a calcium supplement for the remainder of their lactation. Giving calcium supplements during pregnancy is not helpful and may actually cause the problem to reoccur during future pregnancies.

Mastitis or Breast Infection:

The normal canine breasts of mother dogs are soft, warm and enlarged. They should never be red, hot, painful and hard. Hard painful breasts are signs of infection. Dogs with this condition are reluctant to let the puppies nurse and when they do little milk is produced. As soon as I identify a dog with this condition I remove the puppies and hand feed them. Hot packs on the affected breasts help draw down the infection. I place the mother dog on antibiotics and limit her water supply to dry up her milk as quickly as possible.

Hypoglycemia or Low Blood Sugar:

This condition is easily confused with eclampsia. It is primarily a problem in small breeds. The signs are disorientation, weakness, subnormal temperature and low blood sugar analysis. I treat it by administering intravenous dextrose solution. Recovery is very rapid. I often give some dextrose at the same time I treat with intravenous calcium for eclampsia since the two problems often occur together.


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## Ilovemydog (Feb 2, 2010)

Wow, as I am new to this forum, I just read the whole thread just now. What a situation! I am sure these pups are just meant to be and that they will bring great joy with their existance. I also totally agree with jacksons post, you should be commended for your efforts and the level of responsibility and care you are giving your Holly. 

One thing that you should keep in mind for the whelping to come. This comes naturally to the bitch. If all is well, then nothing will go wrong. Do not interfere unless you are sure it is needed, but by all means stay close at hand for her security and comfort. She will be happy you are there to help, but will have a need to "get on with it" on her own terms all the same also. Instinctively she will do everything nature intended.

Old duvet covers, towels are great for the whelping event, she will dig and re-arrange them 1000 times during the process and anything that can be thrown away is good for the messy part. But the vetbed is great for the pups once it all is over. 

I am glad that she has taken to the whelping box, is scratching around and sleeping in it. That means she will most probably choose to whelp in the box when the time comes. If you are not so lucky, just let her whelp the first puppy where she chooses, (even if it's in your own bed or the sofa) but take the puppy gently after whelping, to the whelping box and she will follow willingly. If you try and coax her too much in the beginning to whelp in the box intended, it could cause stress and complications. It is better to let her whelp the first puppy where she chooses and then take the puppy to the box and the mother will follow and whelp the rest there. Her focus will be on the puppy more than the surroundings at that stage. 

Other than that all I can advise at this stage is to keep visitors and interruptions to a minimum, stay cool, calm and collected yourself and get on with everyday life as nothing is different as best you can. 

I wish you all the luck in the world with this and hope that all goes well for you, your bitch and the puppies. :smile5:


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## katbirkett (Feb 2, 2010)

How did you get on at the vets, is your bitch in pup?


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## happysaz133 (Jun 5, 2008)

Just wanted to wish your the best of luck with the birth


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## love_my_pets (Feb 2, 2010)

I've just sat and read through all of the posts- wow, you have been a very responsible owner! It's so nice to see! I'm sure the pups will be here any day now, good luck with it all! Looking forward to seeing photos of mum and her pups soon x


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## Papillon (Dec 16, 2009)

canuckjill said:


> The males owner sounds like a nice guy too....Jill


I would hope he'd contribute financially, as all the stuff that the OP had to buy won't have been cheap, especially if it's for one use only. Maybe even volunteer for feeding duties...


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## ellemore (Jan 2, 2010)

It could either be a phantom (I have had bitches do this. And they even had contractions but no puppies.) Or the jab didn't work, I would take her to the vet for a scan, they should be able to tell you if there are any puppies in there. Try to stay calm though, Holly will need you. Phantom or real, they always want their mum when they are having babies. Let me know how it goes.

All the best to you and Holly, and it just shows what randy males can do!!


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## staceydawlz (Jun 8, 2009)

shes been to get a scan and the bitch is pregnant x


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Yep and she should be about to pop!!


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## alaun (Jul 21, 2009)

Please let us know what happens, we're still watching. Good luck. Xx


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2010)

Hi, Thanks for everyone who has commented. I really do apreaciate all your help and advice. i havent been able to take her temp as finding it difficult to keep her still and everytime i have tried she growls and gets really stressed but someone is always around either myself or my husband so she wont be alone when it happens. Shes still eating but not wanting her early breakfast untill about 11am now. yesterday she slowed down for the first time on a walk and could see she wanted to come home so we did. Her milk has just come in and sometimes when she rolls onto her back we can see some milk leaking from her. Shes become obsessed with a cuddle toy cow which before had no interest in. She now takes it EVERYWHERE with her. This morning after making breakfast for the kids noticed Holly had disappeared. I eventually found her upstairs in my sons bedroom on the bed (She never usually goes upstairs as not allowed) giving our cat lucky the most slobbery wash. I was pretty amazed that Lucky was laying there allowing himself to get totally slobbered on lol. Holly has always liked the cats but they have never cuddled up together for a grooming session. more like a chasing session knocking over everything in their path lol


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I cant remember if you actually had her scanned - but that sounds far more like a false pregnancy.


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2010)

Blitz said:


> I cant remember if you actually had her scanned - but that sounds far more like a false pregnancy.


Yes i did have her scanned - last tuesday and showed 2 live pups


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

What day is she on now?


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

Blitz said:


> I cant remember if you actually had her scanned - but that sounds far more like a false pregnancy.


Yes i was thinking the same thing


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2010)

Here are some pictures ive taken of her recently


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

My lil Babies said:


> Here are some pictures ive taken of her recently


Bless her what day is she on?


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## Ilovemydog (Feb 2, 2010)

Oh, she's lovely, she´s going to be a great mum I'm sure. The cat is lovely too, letting her groom him so lovingly. I hope all goes well, do you know which day she is on now? When she is due?

Keep us posted :smile5:


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2010)

Shes on day 66.

just caught her trying to pull the wooden panel from our bath. Hope she wasnt thinking of having them under the bath. She keeps sneaking upstairs when im not looking so going to have to get the stair gate out. She does keep going into her welping box though and has a good dig about before going to sleep so i think she knows what it is for


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

66???? I'm amazed it isn't a false pregnancy. She should have given birth by now!


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

Have you spoken to your vet recently?

The mismate can cause birth defects and labour issues.


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

I suppose she could give birth tonight, she is nesting.......


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2010)

Papillon said:


> I would hope he'd contribute financially, as all the stuff that the OP had to buy won't have been cheap, especially if it's for one use only. Maybe even volunteer for feeding duties...


No he hasnt offered me a penny and yes ive spent a fortune. I feel rude to ask for help with the cost etc but it would of been nice if he had offered. He is a nice guy but probably just didnt think of all the things i needed to buy. Oh and his dog Buster has now been castrated as of yesterday


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## Ilovemydog (Feb 2, 2010)

Ok, are you in regular contact with the vet? Has he given you any advice on how this all can be, as she is a large breed with few puppies?

The reason I ask, is that when large breeds like Holly, (and my Afrika) have only one or two puppies in a litter, the birth can be drawn out for a long period of time. The puppies trigger the birth process by giving out oxytocin to the mothers blood stream. This sets off the contractions. If there are too few puppies, the amount of oxytocin is not enough to get the contractions going well enough. When the first puppies are born, they suck the mother, releasing more oxytocin into the bloodstream enabling the other puppies or afterbirths to be born. But too few puppies and this can bring a few complications for large breeds especially.

My Giant Schnauzer had one puppy in a litter once. The only puppy she has had. But the birth was drawn out over many days, her temperature dropped and it was not until it was back to normal that the contractions started to happen, but still it took her over 72 hours to bring this pup into the world as there were such low amounts of oxytocin being released the contractions were not powerful enough. I was lucky that nothing went wrong, but she did need a shot of oxytocin to help her deliver the afterbirth, one puppy suckling was not enough stimulation for that. 

I do not want to alarm you in any way, I just wanted to explain why I ask these questions about your vet. I am happy to answer any questions you may have and wish you and Holly all the best and good luck.


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks i will phone my vet in a short while and take her in if they need to see her. we have a 24hr vet close by so can do that easily. Im quite shocked i wasnt told of all these complications by the vet when i have taken her in these last few times and now considering changing my vet but would have to travel further and not sure if the others operate 24/7.

I have a feeling there are more than two pups though as she has got quite large and usually she has a nice waist but now looks very solid and surprised only two pups would make her this big.


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

sometimes they carry a lot of fluid which is why they look huge when only a small litter. or the pups may be big also


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Hi please come back when you can for an update - did you ring the vet??


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## Papillon (Dec 16, 2009)

My lil Babies said:


> I have a feeling there are more than two pups though as she has got quite large and usually she has a nice waist but now looks very solid and surprised only two pups would make her this big.


I think we should open a book on how many pups there are. I say 'six'. 

Good luck, hope it all goes well for the mom and the pups.


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

If there was a book I would bet on no pups. It is classic false pregnancy signs and scans can be wrong, and bitches dont normally go that long. I would be starting to get worried and want something done by now. One big pup could easily be stuck across the birth canal and the bitch will never show signs of labour. I had one like this once and the vet refused to do anything until I insisted after a week - and there was one stuck rotten pup.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

We had a bitch go 6 days over but it was obvious she was having quite a few pups (8) and they were lively and you could see them moving about. She showed no signs of labour and the vet was happy to leave her.

If the vet says there are only 2 pups and nothing is happening yet I would take her back to the vet. As others have said there itmay be that there are not enough pups to start the labour as some times happens with small litters or as Blitz says one may be stuck.


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Wow the suspense is killing me....I wasn't as bad as this with my last baby lol....been following this thread since it started and every time it comes up I get all excited :smile5: xx


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## Ilovemydog (Feb 2, 2010)

Clare7435 said:


> Wow the suspense is killing me....I wasn't as bad as this with my last baby lol....been following this thread since it started and every time it comes up I get all excited :smile5: xx


Yep, same here, can't wait for news about Holly! Keep coming back to this page just to check if there is any news! :blush:


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

me too lol


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## mashabella (Oct 23, 2009)

im waiting to hear the news too!!!


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## archielee (Jan 30, 2009)

And me too


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

and me - I so hope she's ok


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## love_my_pets (Feb 2, 2010)

I hope so too!


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## RachyBobs (Oct 18, 2009)

Me too! xx Good luck Holly


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Pleeeeeeeease .....we need news....how's holly? I hope she's ok and that no news is good news xx


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

hope everything is ok, can only assume something has happened since she not been on for a while, has anyone heard anything?


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## Sian32 (Mar 2, 2009)

wow

just stumbled upon this post! its like a soap opera! already im gripped!

Good luck!


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## foxy81 (Jan 19, 2010)

Still think this seems more like a false pregnancy, hope hollys ok either way


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## Nonnie (Apr 15, 2009)

foxy81 said:


> Still think this seems more like a false pregnancy, hope hollys ok either way


The scan showed puppies, so how can it be?

I have a feeling something has gone horribly wrong. I hope not


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Nonnie said:


> The scan showed puppies, so how can it be?
> 
> I have a feeling something has gone horribly wrong. I hope not


I was just thinking the same, I hope everything is ok, I can only imagine how awful it would be if things had gone wrong and holly isn't well...her mum would be feeling so bad....sending special well wishes for holly and her mummy xx


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

Does anyone have an e-mail addy for Lil Babies?? I got that sinking feeling, so hope I'm wrong.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

Sorry i havent been back for a while to let you know what is going on but we've had some problems and sad news. I called the vet on saturday and they said to bring her in the next day to see if all is well but didnt seem too concerned that she was overdue saying that they can go up to 72 days, but late saturday night holly had some horrible green watery discharge leaking from her and became a bit poorly and weak so my husband rushed her upto the vets. (i had to stay home coz of the kids) and they done a scan and found she had dead puppies in her womb and had to have an immediate full spay as she had developed a serious infection in her womb. There were three puppies but all were dead and had died inside her. Holly has been really unwell and has been at the vets having a course of antibiotics and also had been put on a drip but shes doing ok now and we just had a call to say we can pick her up later today at 5. On top of this we have another poorly dog (Riley) who has gone of his food, vomiting alot and losing a fair bit of weight, hes been drinking alot too. he always has drank alot but recently its become excessive and when i took him into the vets yesterday they said they wanted to hospitalise him as he was dehydrated and put him straight on a drip. hes now been diagnosed as diabetic and said hes had it for quite some time as hes got damage to his eyes and has started going blind. I cant believe i didnt notice this before and feel such a bad owner. i knew he couldnt see well in the dark but thought this was normal as other people at the park said their dogs couldnt see well in the dark either and had to wear refective clothing so their dogs could see them easily. Ive only had Riley for 5 months and beginning to wonder if his previous owners didnt want him because they knew he had health problems.


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## cutekiaro1 (Dec 15, 2009)

so sorry to hear about the pups and mum. Hope she has a speedy recovery and is home with you soon. On top of that to find out your other one is poorly you must be so stressed. 
Your prob right about the last owners tho. Is he going to be on medication now?

x x


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## luvmydogs (Dec 30, 2009)

Oh thats awful Beckie. Hugs to you and your dogs.


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## celicababe1986 (Jun 22, 2009)

:crying:Very sorry to hear about the pups. Very sorry to hear about riley too.

Sending healing vibes for both doggies.

Please dont feel like a bad owner, they were both seen by the vet which shows you care xx


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## Acacia86 (Dec 30, 2008)

Oh Beckie i am so so sorry to hear that :crying: :crying:

I really hope Riley and Holly get better super quick, and come back home where they belong.

xxxx


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

Sorry to read this and hpoe they both get well soon.


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## lady_r0gue (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh what a shame. So sorry to hear about the pups after reading this long thread and also to hear Riley isn't well. It is just as well that your lil babies have such a lovely mum to care for them. Hope they both get well soon xx


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## EmmaSmith (Jan 20, 2010)

So sorry to hear your sad news. Hope they both get better soon. xx


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## jenniferx (Jan 23, 2009)

Oh how devastating. You must have really been on a complete rollercoaster of emotions lately. 

I hope Holly recovers fully and Riley's condition is managed so that they can both get back to their old lives.


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## Tanya1989 (Dec 4, 2009)

so sorry they've been poorly. hope they get better soon. been worried about you


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## Clare7435 (Dec 17, 2009)

Look at your origional post and those after hunni...full of worry, panic, nerves, care, motherly love toward Holly.....don't ever feel that you are a bad owner because the whole post shows love and care for your dogs.
I'm so very sorry to hear about all the trouble you've had over the last couple of weeks, but if not for your watchful eye your girl might not have pulled through, I'm really sorry to hear about hollys babies but so happy to hear that you got her to the vet in time and she's doing ok, and riley too, you didn't realise at first but how many do, we see something wrong and then watch them to see what happens, it's all we can do, then take them to the vet...which is what you did.
Fingers crossed that everything goes smoothly now and you hae your babies home very soon
Clare xx


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## Jo P (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm so sad to read your news - you tried your best but unfortunately it wasnt meant to be - dont feel like you're a bad owner - far from it IMHO. I hope Holly is on the up and up and feeling like her old self in no time at all - as for your Riley - what a rotten time you're having of it - only advice I can give is always at the forefront of your mind keep quality of life over quantity ((((HUGS))))


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## sarybeagle (Nov 4, 2009)

So sorry to hear of the pups  I hope Hollie recovers asap and Riley too. Gosh what a week you've had hugs xxx


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## red dogues (Nov 27, 2009)

i hope they both get better soon, and dont feel bad you done all you could.


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## Freyja (Jun 28, 2008)

So sorry to hear about the pups. Hope Holly and Riley are soon better.


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## Ducky (Nov 23, 2008)

oh no, im so sorry. 

i hope holly recovers soon. and riley too. xxxx


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## alaun (Jul 21, 2009)

So sorry to hear about your sad and worrying time. I hope both dogs pick up soon. Xx


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## PoisonGirl (Oct 24, 2008)

So sorry to hear your bad news.
Hugs to all of you and get well soon kisses to Holly and Riley xxxx


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## GSDlover4ever (Feb 21, 2009)

oh dear, what a horrible situation.


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## wooliewoo (May 27, 2008)

Thinking of you at this sad time,,, sending all our best that Hollie and Riley recover quickley xx


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## mashabella (Oct 23, 2009)

been following this thread and feel so terrible for you.

please keep us updated on how the dogs are doing when you can xxx


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## Ilovemydog (Feb 2, 2010)

My deepest sympathies to you all! This is awful, none of you deserved this! :crying:

On the bright side, Holly is recovering and you know now about Riley´s condition and everything is being done to help. You are definately a good owner and have no reason to assume any blame. You did your absolute best and then some!! 

I truly hope Holly has a speedy recovery and that Riley does well on meds. Dogs adjust unbelievably well to disabilities, like blindness. All their other senses get hightened and sound and smell become their guides. If Riley does go totally blind, eventually, at least you have time to adjust your training methods to suit him. 

I once had an old rescued English Springer Spaniel that slowly went deaf. I was lucky enough that from the day I got her (she was probably 6 or 7 yrs old at the time and in whelp) I always used hand signals with every command. She always knew what was being asked of her, despite her deafness. I say I was lucky because I did not have any idea she was going deaf, until a few years later. 

I wish you all the best of luck with both of them and hope you get some good advise from others that have or have had blind dogs also. Just in case.


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## mitch4 (Oct 31, 2009)

Really sorry to hear this sad news hope both dogs pick up really quickly xx


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm Truly Sorry For Your Bad News. I Sincerely Hope Things Pick Up For You Soon.xxxx


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