# Golden Retriever with IBS?



## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi there,

Our Alfie is just over a year old and in the past couple of months has been unsettled in the stomach region. This usually results in being met by a kitchen full of bloody mucus-streaked watery poo and sick and a sad looking dog, usually first thing in the morning. This has happened twice in 2 months. Both incidents warranted a vet's trip and both incidents came back with no real answer from the vets. Various X-Rays, fecal samples and other blood tests have been carried out at our request on both occasions but with no annomalies found.

Alfie often has loose/soft stools. The texture is similar to curry (sorry for those having curry for tea). Sloppy is the best way to describe it. He's on "Supadog" adult food mixed with a quarter tin of Pal twice a day. He used to be just on Bakers puppy but we had many behavioural issues and on the recommendation of a behaviourist switched to Supadog with lower protein and he calmed right down and is now a beautiful gentle character. Thing is, he has this stool problem!

It's not all the time, probably twice a week? Then it goes relatively solid again, although it's NEVER as solid as when he's on the Hills Canine I/D Recovery food the vet's give him, that makes it like a rock! I'm just concerned as I've just took him out to the loo and it's quite sloppy again. I'm fed up of waking up at 6am and smelling that smell and then having to clear it all up. Not only that, it can't be nice for him!

On the 2 occasions it's recently happened, one time he ate a whole chicken thigh plus bone which the vet's seem to think caused that instance, and the other they put down to a virus and gave him some anti-biotics. I have noticed this morning he laboured a bit through his food and seems to be chewing on stuff at the back of his teeth, but I thought he was through the teething stage at 13 months? Can teething be contributed to general loose stools at this age? Saying that, he wolfed down tonights meal with ease!

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. I hope I'm not left with the decision of upping his protein intake to cure loose stools only to be presented with HellDog again like we had before! If the two are linked. His food was changed to Adult Supadog mid Decemeber, shortly before the first instance of this "explosion". Generally he's very mischevious and energetic, as you'd expect.

It's just a worry we can't keep affording vet's bills or clean-up wipes!


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

If the ID works, try Chappie original tinned food.
It's very similar and cost a quarter the price. Don't give chicken if his tum is upset, it obviously doesn't agree with him, try white fish


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi rona thanks for the quick reply.

Thing is I don't know if his tummy is upset. He's ok in himself as I've just had to haul him off the sofa again this evening! Just these poo's are so on and off it's concerning.

I'll have a look into this chappie though, thanks! Could it be IBD do you think or something more serious? I'm worried about him bless him!


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Which supadog is he on? is it the chicken based one?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

IBD can be very serious, do not treat this lightly. Our Chessie nearly died of it.
I'm a bit confused as you put IBS in the title.
Have you seen this
Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) in Dogs


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## suewhite (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi has your vet checked him for Pancreatic insufficiency as my goldie was the same we went back and forwards to the vet trying all different diets,finally thats what it turned out to be he had to have Pancreatic powder sprinkled on his food after that he was fine worth askingI also swear by Chappie.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

rona said:


> IBD can be very serious, do not treat this lightly. Our Chessie nearly died of it.
> I'm a bit confused as you put IBS in the title.
> Have you seen this
> Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) in Dogs


Sorry was thinking of the Human version (syndrome). I read that article yes and it's certainly something to consider. Yes it's the Chicken based Supadog, why do you ask?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

Mmmm
If he reacts to chicken, why are you feeding a chicken based food?


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Where did I say he reacts to chicken? He ate a southern fried chicken thigh complete with bones, half-cooked (one of them out-the-box things in the freezer) The vet said it could have had salmonella because it was uncooked basically, also the bones probably didn't help!

Surely most dogs would react to that in some way. As far as I'm aware he doesn't react to proper cooked chicken, although he's never been given it really, only as part of these kibble/tinned foods.


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Ronas link has some good points.Im surprised your vet hasnt helped you more.
Providing all the vet results have been normal,it could well be the food.Some dogs dont take well to chicken based foods.I think the supadog also has a high wheat content plus additives,so it may not be best suited to your dog.It may be an idea to try a food for sensitive dogs,or possibly trying another local vet to see if maybe they can help you more.
If it was my dog and all was clear from a vet point of view,i would try rice and fish to see if that gets your dogs poo solid,then reintroduce a more suitable food.
I hope you get it sorted,


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

t0mbop said:


> On the 2 occasions it's recently happened, one time he ate a whole chicken thigh plus bone which the vet's seem to think caused that instance, and the other they put down to a virus and gave him some anti-biotics.


This is what you said.
A lot of dogs are fed raw chicken with no ill effect.
I think this is the first thing you should look at, change the protein source.
Many dogs have problems with chicken including my Goldie


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## kello82 (Jan 22, 2010)

hi there, sorry to hear that your alfie isnt feeling well =/
i hardly know anything about dogs' health as i am just getting into the process of possibly adopting, however i have lived with IBD for the past 11 years, so i DO have a wealth of knowledge of intestinal things.
but exactly how they apply to a dog's system, i am not sure of.

as was said, IBD and IBS are very different things. i do not know if either, or both, are common in dogs. IB*D* is theorized to be an inflammtory process in the body in which the immune system sees the digestive tissues as foreign invaders and attacks them. this is what causes inflammation, bleeding, pain, abnormal stools, etc.
IB*S* on the other hand does NOT have to do with inflammation or immune system problems, but is just frequent GI symptoms with no prescense of infection or inflammation. in humans, it is often associated with stress and stuff.
IB*D* is usually diagnosed in humans by colonoscopy. with the tiny camera they can see whether or not there is inflammation in the lining of the intestines. if there is NO inflammation, then IB*D* is ruled out and IB*S* is a strong contendor (sp?) for the dx. but if there IS inflamed tissues, IB*D* is most often the diagnosis.
are doggie colonoscopies possible? like i said, i dont know much about doggie health care, but a colonoscopy may give some good information as to whats going on in there.
note:: sometimes inflammation doesnt show in the colonoscopy because the test only goes so far as the end of the small intestine. IBD can also present as inflammation of the samll intestine ONLY, ans therefore the colon will look healthy in the scope, but the small intestine is where the real deal is at.
from the blood and mucous in the poo though, it sounds like a large intestine issue to me. just my first feeling on that.

as far as helping to manage his symptoms until the proper cauase is found?
there was another thread around here recently about similar things...ok here
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/86064-colitis.html

there are some good thoughts in here from everyone. my main suggestions are to provide a heating pad for him to lay his belly on which may soothe the cramping in his belly. also make sure he stays super well hydrated and maybe ask the vet about electrolyte supplements to replace what he loses with the loose stools.

SO, im sorry that was ridiculously lengthy, but i hope it helps you and i hope he feels better soon  
poor doggie cant be having fun with poo like that everywhere. 
and neither are you, ah!

and i ahve to say again i do not know for sure how this information applies to dogs. this is just my general knowledge of intestinal diseases and disorders in general ok?

good luck!


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Oh right, well I thought that would be the bones that upset his tummy last time, he nicked it off the worktop! We were worried sick!

It's interesting about the chicken I shall have a word with the Mrs. when she's back! Is a mixture of kibble and tinned necessary or good/bad? What combinations are good for the more sensitive goldens and what do you feed yours on rona?

Is he ok to be on adult food at his age?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

Mine has Chappie tinned and Nature diet lamb. I must say that he doesn't have a lot of trouble with his bowels unless fed chicken.
Adult food should be fine, though Chappie isn't the best food, it usually stops the squits and that's got to better than the food passing straight through


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Interesting, no kibble or is the nature diet the kibble (we've had the pouches in the past for filling his kong with!)


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Adult food at his age is fine, lots of people think that raw meat/bones can harm dogs but many many pets live on diets entirely of raw food/bones and are much better for it. A dogs digestive system has not changed much in the years it has been domesticated and they are more than capable of dealing with the raw stuff. Cooked bones however are very dangerous, inclucding the knuckle bones and things you can buy at pet shops, cooked bone can splinter and is dangerous.
It does sound like your little man has an intolerance to chicken. Supadog is not the best food, I'm not sure how much it costs but there is probably much better one sin the same range.
With dog food you want the main ingredient to be MEAT not derivatives, not grains actual meat (and in your case not chicken)
My Golden(pup) is on Burns mini bites and nauturediet which is a great wet food, both are available from good pet shops but you wont find Burns in pets at home or either in a supermarket, best prices usually online.
James wellbeloved and arden grange are good foods with non chicken varietys.
Remember to change him off his current food gradually, or does that not apply when he does badly on it anyway? Hmmm someone else may answer that.
Even something like Pets at home own brand food should do him much nicer.

Hope that helps and you find a solution soon.

JAMES WELLBELOVED FISH & RICE ADULT DOG FOOD 7.5KG - SAVE ONLINE AT GJW TITMUSS.

BURNS LAMB & MAIZE 15KG

ARDEN GRANGE ADULT 15KG with lamb & rice

Your Search results


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

t0mbop said:


> Interesting, no kibble or is the nature diet the kibble (we've had the pouches in the past for filling his kong with!)


No I'm one of those that doesn't like dry food. He does have JWB as treats.


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## babycham2002 (Oct 18, 2009)

Also to add, please don't be concerned about choosing a food with higher protein content, if the protein is good meat protein then you will not have a hyper pup. Also Bakers is full of colourings and additives which would have been the worst influence on his behaviour.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Well he's just been outside and had another sloppy poo, that's 2 in 2hrs. I fear a bad morning ahead. Typically though he's bouncing around like a good'en! It'd be so much easier if he actually showed some symptoms of something!

I'll get the Mrs. to phone the vets tomorrow and ask their advice. Thing is, I don't just want to change his food willy nilly. Supadog we buy in the 3kg sacks and it's about £5 I think. We've tried him on JWB and he didn't eat for 2 days until we mixed some other stuff back in but he still left most of the JWB. We've also tried other popular "good quality" foods but the problem is he doesn't eat them!

He used to be on Purina Beta but one day he just stopped eating it for no reason?! My partner informs me he's been on the Lamb Pal the last 2 days, could he have an intolerance to lamb? The Pal tins come in 12 packs but most of them are chicken, so he'd have that more often and usually touch wood he's ok, it's these odd incidences!


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Please may i ask...as a pup,what food was he on when you bought him? and how was he on the puppy food you gave him until you changed to supadog?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

t0mbop said:


> Well he's just been outside and had another sloppy poo, that's 2 in 2hrs. I fear a bad morning ahead. Typically though he's bouncing around like a good'en! It'd be so much easier if he actually showed some symptoms of something!
> 
> I'll get the Mrs. to phone the vets tomorrow and ask their advice. Thing is, I don't just want to change his food willy nilly. Supadog we buy in the 3kg sacks and it's about £5 I think. We've tried him on JWB and he didn't eat for 2 days until we mixed some other stuff back in but he still left most of the JWB. We've also tried other popular "good quality" foods but the problem is he doesn't eat them!
> 
> He used to be on Purina Beta but one day he just stopped eating it for no reason?! My partner informs me he's been on the Lamb Pal the last 2 days, could he have an intolerance to lamb? The Pal tins come in 12 packs but most of them are chicken, so he'd have that more often and usually touch wood he's ok, it's these odd incidences!


It's because he has flare ups. Please try to remove chicken.
This is not something to ignore 
This is what your dog could end up looking like









When it should be looking like this









This is our Chessie who had and has IBD


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

I also have Goldens and chicken does not agree with one of them.
I like to feed a salmon and potato or salmon and rice kibble to mine as it suits them well after having problems like you are having.
I would maybe stop the pal and try the original chappie with the kibble.
The kibble i use for my youngster is either wafcol salmon and potato or wainwrights salmon and potato available from PAH.
And skinners salmon and rice field and trial for the older ones.
They are all good kibbles. hope that helps.and you get sorted soon.


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

oh bless him,hes gorgeous tho Rona! How was he diagnosed? was it a biopsy?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

Bearpaw said:


> oh bless him,hes gorgeous tho Rona! How was he diagnosed? was it a biopsy?


no, in the end they actually had to open him up. His stomach lining was rotting and none of the food was being digested. He was within one week of being PTS in that picture. He was suffering so much.
He can still have episodes but we are on top of it instantly now.
He gets pro kolin paste, Sulfasalazine and Trimacare and that sorts it thank god
He can also only eat Chappie


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

oh gosh,what a rough ride you have both had,but great you can now control it.I hope the OP has taken this onboard and seeks further advise.


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## kello82 (Jan 22, 2010)

t0mbop?? 
i do hope you got a chance to read my post and that these thoughts may be able to help alfie! ask the vet if tests can be done NOW to confrim a diagnosis before he has to be split open like poor chessie did 
i have researched and it seems that colonoscopies are pretty useful in the canine realm as well, so please do inquire!!

any questions or anything i will do my best to help with the experiences that i have ok?
best wishes for a restful and (poo-free) night


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2010)

How is your boy today?


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi guys, sorry had a mad couple of days.

Basically the following morning from the start of this thread, he had stools like water, I mean literally. After continually straining a small amount of blood started to appear, so straight up the vets at 9am.

This time we requested to see the owner/head vet. He was brilliant and said previous consultations of special food combined with anti-biotics can work but is mainly a cover up. He wanted to try one or the other to get to the root of the issue. So, away we came with some special I/D food again and some Pro-Kolin in a tube he has to have 3 times a day. He held off on any anti-biotics and wanted to see what, if any, effect the food has as to where we go next.

He's booked in again for Monday at 9am where the vet will do bloods and see how he's doing. Following the mess early Friday there was nothing more as regards poo until mid-morning today, which is most odd as he usually attempts to go 3-4 times a day, but this morning it was a bit half/half. There was form to it but not a lot, but certainly an improvement over Friday morning, and no blood.

He seems ok in himself if a little quiet at times and sleepy. The vet seems to think as the blood was fresh its inflammation in the large intestine which could indicate colitis or a defficiency of some sort. He didn't really go into IBD that much and said there are often other reasons. He didn't seem best pleased with his staff for continually prescribing anti-biotics and food so it seems we're getting somewhere now.

That's where we are at the moment then! Isn't insurance a wonderful thing, thank god! Your thoughts?


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## Bearpaw (Dec 10, 2009)

Im really pleased to hear you have found a vet that has taken this seriously.
Hopefully the bloods next week will give the vet some idea of what the problem is and you will be able to get the right treatment.Hang in there,am sure your dog will be on the mend soon.


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

Im glad you are getting sorted out now.
Keep us informed how he goes on.


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Thanks Bearpaw.

He's a bit quiet this afternoon so probably feeling a bit down. Is the thing about a warm dry nose being ill a myth or truth? Sometimes his is cold and wet others it's dry. Can't honestly say it's usually one or the other but he's got his head laying on my leg so I thought I'd just touch it and see!

What's the Pro-Kolin for the vet gave us? It's like a giant syringe of milky paste stuff?


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2010)

t0mbop said:


> Thanks Bearpaw.
> 
> He's a bit quiet this afternoon so probably feeling a bit down. Is the thing about a warm dry nose being ill a myth or truth? Sometimes his is cold and wet others it's dry. Can't honestly say it's usually one or the other but he's got his head laying on my leg so I thought I'd just touch it and see!
> 
> What's the Pro-Kolin for the vet gave us? It's like a giant syringe of milky paste stuff?


Glad you have some positive news.
This is copied 
Protexin Pro Kolin is a palatable paste for dogs & cats that contains kaolin and pectin for the treatment of diarrhoea. Devised to reduce the use of antibiotics in mild gut upsets.

Benefits: Soothes the gut lining during diarrhoeal upsets. Contains kaolin a natural binding agent. Used to promote normal digestive function and improve food utilisation.

Noses vary, if it's dry and warm all the time it shows illness, but sometimes if they have been sleeping it can be warm for a while after waking


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Oh right thanks rona.

As things stand, the food and Pro-Kolin don't seem to have solidified the stools completely, but he doesn't seem as uncomfortable and he's not strained at all since the vets visit.

Fingers crossed he at least holds it in tonight! We've got a curry evening this evening and I fear it may put me off curry for life if when we return he's made a mess!


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## davehyde (Jul 13, 2009)

sorry tom, i know this is a worry to you but i nearly spat my coffe out laughing at the curry remark.

i could just picture it mate.hmy:


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## t0mbop (Jun 21, 2009)

Good news curry lovers!

We're back from the curry night (gorgeous it was too!) and he's much perkier and happy and all clean. Just been outside for the toilet and it's much more formed and even solid for the most part.

Hopefully it is dietry and can be solved with better/sensitive food choices in the future, but I'll keep you all posted!


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## mollymo (Oct 31, 2009)

Great news


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2010)

Lets hope it's a chicken intolerance or something just as simple to fix.
Glad to here he is better


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## kello82 (Jan 22, 2010)

aw yay! im glad to hear he seems better!
i hope it keeps up


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