# Help



## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

HELP!!! dont know whats wrong with my fish. we have 6 fish (all diffrent) they are back moores etc and they have started to lay down in the corner of the tank! they seem very active when they know food is about but then lay down again. i dont want them to die  someone help!


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## penelopedarcy (May 7, 2009)

and upload some pics so we can see the total fish setup...
and some close ups on your fish..
beats using our imagination.


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## Guest (May 19, 2009)

Aye, before we can help we need info.


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

right
tank size: 3ft (106 ltr)
filter: fluval 4
the tank has been set up for amouth a 6 weeks now. we had three fish in a smaller tank before we got this big one, those three were 1 black moore, one red oranda and one black and orange oranda. they lived happy as larry.
so then we got these three fish about 2 weeks ago (im thinking maybe they brought something in with them) one blue oranda, one red capped aranda and one telescopic eye thing (looks like a black moore but white) had it running about 2 weeks before we put our first 3 fish in. and then the new ones went in about 2 weeks ago. going to go to pets at home today to get a water tester. 
BUT last night the black moore was coverd in white spots, dont know how this had happend to quickly! seems fine again this morning but going to see if we can get anything for that today too. im now wondering if one of the new fish has made the rest ill. 
we also have three apple snails in the tank but have had them for quite a while now. 
heres a pic of the tank:








dont know why the water looks a bit green in the pic, but its not in real life lol
would love to upload pics of the fish but as you can see they are in hiding and very hard to get a pic of


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Ok, the bad news is that your tank is overstocked - 106 litres is only big enough for two fancy goldfish really, so it's likely that your filter is not coping with the amount of waste being produced. Don't feel too bad about it though - I think overstocking is a mistake that most of us have made at some point, so you're not alone! 

Did you have the fluval 4 filter in the old tank, or is it new? And if it's new, did you cycle the tank with the fluval 4 in there before you moved the fish in?
Also, did you manage to pick up a test kit today? They're the most useful things to have and the results will let us know instantly if there's a problem with the water


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## Guest (May 19, 2009)

Almost 80% of disease-related problems are caused by poor water quality. Going by the symptoms you describe it sounds like the Black moor is suffering from the effects of Whitespot (_Ichthyophthirius multifiliis_), the main cause of this is stress which of course is caused by poor water quality. The sooner you can post the water test results the better.

Finally don't feel beat yourself up about overstocking the tank, there is lots to learn in fishkeeping and you aren't going to learn it all overnight. Most of us have been into the 'darkside' of fishkeeping.


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

right went to pets at home today and they gave me lots of things. she said that they had amonia poisining so they are now being trested. aw i wish they would tell you when you buy them that the tank needs to be that size for two, one place couldnt see why i had a tank so big for that many fish?!?! she said because i added 3 at once it was too much for the filter. will let you know how the week goes on with them. have got the white spot stuff and the cycle and soemthing else to coat the fish in.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

*Ragdoll* said:


> i wish they would tell you when you buy them that the tank needs to be that size for two, one place couldnt see why i had a tank so big for that many fish?!?!


Sadly a huge proportion of people who work in pet shops and aquatic shops don't actually know much about the animals they sell 

Did pets @ home test your water for you? And did they give you the results? If your ammonia is high you're probably going to need to do frequent partial water changes to help dilute it down.

Also I would see if the pet shop will take back the 3 goldies you got 2 weeks ago - removing them will hugely help to improve your water quality.


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

sorry i know its over stocked but i wont give them back, i believe if you buy a pet you dont give it back. might invest in another tank in a few weeks and split them up. 
no we are going to take a water test to them asap but i had to get back to uni as i have an exam today.
pets at home said they would grow very big very quickly but we have seen little growth in them?


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## penelopedarcy (May 7, 2009)

there's just something odd with pet at home, i've encountered so many people having complaints about the place. maybe we should start a thread just about it. :confused1:

@ragdoll - try using white balance, this should make the colors look right. 
and not sure if i missed it or anything, did you have the fish quarantined before adding them in the tank?


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

no they came streight from a pet shop and into the tank, we were not told to quarenteen them and they knew we alredy had some fish in the tank?


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

As magpie has said most pet stores don't specialize in fish so they are known for giving fairly inaccurate advice, as for [email protected], don't even go there...

All goldfish are basically the same species, _Carrasius auratus_, however it is selective breeding which results in the many strains which are available. The common varieties such as comets and shubunkins can easily grow to 30cm/12" if they are given the space and suitable water conditions. The likes of orandas, fantails, bubble-eyes etc usually grow to a much smaller size (about 15cm/6") however they are still very chunky fish once fully grown.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Fishyfins said:


> as an employee of pets at home, in the aquatic divison, i can say that yeah, there is something wrong with them. the staff training is very poor in the fish section, and a lot of the training books contain a lot of bogus information. as i was already well read on the subject before i started working there, i already knew the proper way to do things. however, if i am caught advising customers the way i want to advise them in store, i could lose my job


That's insane! I understand that they're a business out to make money and therefore don't really care about the animals they sell, but I don't understand how it benefits them to give out incorrect information to their customers? 
You'd think they'd be trying to flog big expensive tanks to people, not telling them that they can put 2 goldfish in a tiny, cheap 17 litre (which is the advice I overheard at my local [email protected] not so long ago).

@Ragdoll - I understand that you don't want to take the fish back, just be aware that you may be having to do frequent (every couple of days or even daily) water changes until you get a new tank in order to keep ammonia levels down.

Also, when you go to get your water tested try and get the staff to give you the actual figures, rather than just telling you if its good or bad. I'd also really recommend you get your own test kit if possible (a liquid drop one, not the test strips coz they're rubbish!), then you can test the water as often as you want and keep an eye on how things are going in your tank


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

got home tonight and the red capped oranda was dead! they now all have blood shot fins??!?! need asvice tonight so i can get something to help tomorrow.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that. 

It really does sound like ammonia poisoning to me, the best thing you can do (without sounding like a broken record) is regular partial water changes to dilute the ammonia down, starting asap. I assume you have a dechlorinator to treat your water with before you add it to the tank? 

And again, your own test kit is the best thing you can buy - you can test the water every day if needs be and see for yourself what your ammonia levels are like.

Good luck & keep posting & we'll do our best to make sure you don't lose another one


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

water change done, yes we do have some amquel+ which i have used with the new water. they look so ill  all i can do now is hope. but i dont think some of them will last. how often should i change the water to help get rid of the ammonia?


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Until you either get a test kit or get your water tested we don't know how bad the ammonia level is, so personally I'd err on the side of caution and do daily water changes. At least then you know the fish are getting clean water every day & hopefully the ammonia level won't get chance to build up further.
How much of the water are you changing at a time?


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

about 25% is that right? they perkd up lots after i changed it but are back to how they were now.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

If they're going back to being lethargic that quickly, I'd try changing 50% of the water. So long as the temperature of the fresh water is the same as the tanks current temp, big water changes won't do them any harm - clean water is like fresh air to fish


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

ok well shall i do the 50% change tonight? i just want them to be ok


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

Yeah, I'd do it tonight rather that wait til tomorrow. Have you had chance to get the water tested yet?


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

no not yet i have been stuck at home because my boyfriend worked till 7.30. might try and do it tomorrow as i have my car with me now.


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

If you can it'd certainly help to know exactly whats going on in your tank 
And like I said earlier, you may find it useful to buy your own test kit. I know [email protected] sell the API master test kit (which is the one I use), but don't waste your money on the paper test strips - I've found them to be dangerously inaccurate and they actually work out more expensive anyways!


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

ok i will get the kit, how much is it? thanks so much 4 your help!!


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## magpie (Jan 3, 2009)

You're entirely welcome 

The API kit is about £20-£25, which I know sounds alot, but it literally has hundreds of tests in it (800 in fact, according to the box!) and it'll last you for aaages.

_edited to add:_ Let us know how you get on


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## penelopedarcy (May 7, 2009)

bad internet connection the past few days and couldn't log on! :mad5:

how's everything with your fish now? any updates? 

hmmm... about the pets at home thing, that is just sad. I hate it when people sell you stuff and you probably know more than they do. it's just a shame a lot of beginners have to go through this.. NO TO [email protected]! :frown2:


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## *Ragdoll* (Jan 21, 2009)

right sorry its been so long
well we lost three in the end 
the water tests showd that the nitrate level was too high and the man told us there was little we could do. so went and got some salt and now there all ok again! woo!!
sad that my black moore died!  but glad the rest are ok!


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## penelopedarcy (May 7, 2009)

*Ragdoll* said:


> right sorry its been so long
> well we lost three in the end
> the water tests showd that the nitrate level was too high and the man told us there was little we could do. so went and got some salt and now there all ok again! woo!!
> sad that my black moore died!  but glad the rest are ok!


sorry for your loss.


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