# A great fight between my cats



## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Howdy Community,

My name is Madi and I am new to this community. I have been searching for a solid forum to ask my questions about cat (since my knowledge is still in the novice process) and I found this one to be the most nicely designed and - after reading some topics - the most friendly so I'm glad I joined you.

My story begins with Tom, a male cat that I purchased a year ago and here is his picture:








Tom is now grown up and he wants to mate definitely, he was peeing everywhere in the house and then I thought he is ill. So I took him to a vet and he told me that this is a sign that he wants to mate so I went to my friend house and borrowed his female cat, Luci.

So, when I put them together, Tom was very crazy when he saw here and kept following here everywhere in the house however he didn't dare to even touch her. Whenever he tried to get closer, she acted like a snake and made a sound that I don't know actually what it is called but it looks like a snake who is squirting.

Now comes the question, what should I do? Will they get used to one another? If yes, how to do it quickly? Any steps to keep them safe?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Also, should I keep them in one closed room for a while or leave them roam around the house?


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## FizMillion (May 23, 2013)

Hello and welcome! 

I take it Tom is a pet? 

By breeding him with a female it my calm his spraying for a short while but it will be back. 
Breeding two cats isn't as easy as putting two cats together. Further you boy could get injured. I urge you to get Tom neutered before he is spraying everywhere.


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Actually I want them to breed so I am not going to neuter him.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

he is a beautiful cat but unless your friend and you have homes for the kittens already you might want to reconsider, can you imagine kittens as beautiful as yours not having a loving home to go to ,would you be willing to keep them ,also he will mark hi territory more once mated ,they will not mate unless the female is in heat and this may take some time, there is a lot of hard work and commitment involved and can be very expensive buisness to go into,i would have loved to have breed from my beautiful boy but had to face facts that i wasnt prepared enough so i got him neutered it broke my heart but i know it was the right thing for us to do.please stick around and listen to the advice on this forum ,if you seriously want to go into breeding then you need to do a lot of research which will help you and your friend make an informed decision, my boy cat never ever peeded anywhere apart from where he was supposed to and he wasnt netured untill well over a year old , he may have done the occassional spray but only if he was feeling particuilly stressed,like when new neighbour moved in with dogs,your spraying /peeing probem may escalate now you haveintroduced him to a female, best wishes for you and cats ,


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Actually we are ready for breeding, I will be gifting some kittens for my friends who always wanted cats but couldn't purchase them. And I already specified a whole room for them. The female cat also have given birth to 4 beautiful kittens before from another boy. Me and my friend are more than ready to deal with the new kittens and with the breeding process, we also have a friend who have a pet shop who definitely would like to get some of the kittens after they are well-fed to sell them.

I am eager to listen to more pieces of advice about what to do to get them used to one another in a quick way, not how to end the problem of my boy spraying around.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

if she is on heat at the moment then it is only a matter of time but you may want to keep them seperate until she is really ready as she may seriously hurt him, and get some earpluggs.good luckhe may also lose weight and condition being in the same house as her , may be easier to take him to her house when you are sure she is really ready for mating


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

moggiemum said:


> if she is on heat at the moment then it is only a matter of time but you may want to keep them seperate until she is really ready as she may seriously hurt him, and get some earpluggs.good luckhe may also lose weight and condition being in the same house as her , may be easier to take him to her house when you are sure she is really ready for mating


Thanks for the advice mate. She is ready for mating as I been told by my friend, and my male can't go to her house as there is another male down there who might fight with him as well :laugh:


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Also, should I keep them in one closed room for a while or leave them roam around the house?


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

First of all, have you done any health tests on the cats?

The male looks to be a Persian mix so needs PKD testing, along with FIV and FelV. The female also needs testing before breeding.

I assume you are not a registered breeder producing pedigree cats? There's really no need to produce more moggies into the world.
Pet shops are not a good place for your kittens, you need to screen the owners not just sell them to whomever has the cash. Giving the kittens away isn't a good plan either, raising kittens properly is an expensive hobby, plus the costs spent on vet fees for the kittens, why would you just give them away?

For mating most breeders pen the cats side by side to adjust for a few days, but really you need to be neutering your boy not breeding him.


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

moggiemum said:


> if she is on heat at the moment then it is only a matter of time but you may want to keep them seperate until she is really ready as she may seriously hurt him, and get some earpluggs.good luckhe may also lose weight and condition being in the same house as her , may be easier to take him to her house when you are sure she is really ready for mating





spotty cats said:


> First of all, have you done any health tests on the cats?
> 
> The male looks to be a Persian mix so needs PKD testing, along with FIV and FelV. The female also needs testing before breeding.
> 
> ...


Why should I neuter him?


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## Mese (Jun 5, 2008)

Another byb ... will it never end


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Mese said:


> Another byb ... will it never end


I said I am novice and I am here to learn.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

OK OP if you are here to learn; neuter your pet moggie, forget all thoughts of selling to pet shops and borrowing any old female for breeding and research into proper ethical breeding before getting another cat to breed with. Not what you want to hear? Sorry but that's life. You have gone about it in totally the wrong way but I'm quite sure all you really want is someone to tell you how amazing you are and how wonderful your handsome mog is and what you are doing is right.

That place is not here .... We promote ethical reponsible breeding which are most certainly not doing.


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Soupie said:


> OK OP if you are here to learn; neuter your pet moggie, forget all thoughts of selling to pet shops and borrowing any old female for breeding and research into proper ethical breeding before getting another cat to breed with. Not what you want to hear? Sorry but that's life. You have gone about it in totally the wrong way but I'm quite sure all you really want is someone to tell you how amazing you are and how wonderful your handsome mog is and what you are doing is right.
> 
> That place is not here .... We promote ethical reponsible breeding which are most certainly not doing.


Well what you thought about what I want to hear is totally wrong. Don't make up assumptions based on whatever comes to your mind. I didn't know that selling kittens is a bad habit tell you guys let me know, I have illustrated at the very beginning of my thread that my knowledge is very little about breeding in general so you don't have to get so mad whenever I say something wrong. When I read your advice and other people advice I am convinced now that I am not going to give away any kittens, I have many brothers and even some of my cousins are vets so we will provide a proper climate for the family.

For the health checks, I constantly go to the vet and my boy's health is very good. Same thing for the female, the female looks identically like him and she gave birth to 4 kittens before from another male and they are in a very good health now and being cared of at my friend house.

What I want to hear is to tell me or give me resources to know about proper breeding, not just saying go spay/neuter your pet. I am not doing that.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

CommanderMadi said:


> For the health checks, I constantly go to the vet and my boy's health is very good. Same thing for the female


You cannot _see_ PKD, FIV or FelV. They require specific tests, scanned by a specialist, DNA test and blood test.
Not just a general health checkup at the vets.


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

spotty cats said:


> You cannot _see_ PKD, FIV or FelV. They require specific tests, scanned by a specialist, DNA test and blood test.
> Not just a general health checkup at the vets.


Alright then, I will go today to the vet hospital and ask for these tests. Thank you.


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

spotty cats said:


> First of all, have you done any health tests on the cats?
> 
> The male looks to be a Persian mix so needs PKD testing, along with FIV and FelV. The female also needs testing before breeding.
> 
> ...


Considering being an expensive hobby, I am ready for that. I have enough money to do that.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

CommanderMadi said:


> Alright then, I will go today to the vet hospital and ask for these tests. Thank you.


You'll need to return the female to her home as well. The lab takes 5-10 days for the PKD test.

Better to just neuter them both and be done with it.


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## Lunabuma (Dec 12, 2011)

If you are not breeding officially or properly then you really are going to have a hard time here. Your boy is at risk of transmitted diseases if you don't do the testing, more so of his hormone's making him take off in search of a female into the path of a car. Rescue centres are full of unwanted moggies, why add to the problem? 

Are you in the UK?


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## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

your cat is very handsome, but if you love him please do neuter him, if you're wanting to make kittens for people who cant afford to purchase them how will they afford vet care, they wont be able to neuter their cats either and the cycle will never end. You say you can afford the testing so please be sensible and think about it and just neuter him.


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Lunabuma said:


> If you are not breeding officially or properly then you really are going to have a hard time here. Your boy is at risk of transmitted diseases if you don't do the testing, more so of his hormone's making him take off in search of a female into the path of a car. Rescue centres are full of unwanted moggies, why add to the problem?
> 
> Are you in the UK?


No I am in Egypt.


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## Soupie (Sep 2, 2008)

CommanderMadi said:


> What I want to hear is to tell me or give me resources to know about proper breeding, not just saying go spay/neuter your pet. I am not doing that.


Fine. So you intend to breed more moggies regardless of whether it is ethical to do so?

The GCCF website - The Governing Council of the Cat Fancy has a good section about starting breeding. Have a read it will give you an insight into breeding ethically and the sort of tests required which SC has already kindly detailed.

then neuter your handsome moggie and do more research then start breeding


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Soupie said:


> Fine. So you intend to breed more moggies regardless of whether it is ethical to do so?
> 
> The GCCF website - The Governing Council of the Cat Fancy has a good section about starting breeding. Have a read it will give you an insight into breeding ethically and the sort of tests required which SC has already kindly detailed.
> 
> then neuter your handsome moggie and do more research then start breeding


Thanks for the help. But how should I neuter my cat and then start breeding after research. You definitely mean that for the female?


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## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

CommanderMadi said:


> Thanks for the help. But how should I neuter my cat and then start breeding after research. You definitely mean that for the female?


no, your cat is not pedigree, get a pedigree cat and breed properly both this moggy male and female need neutering


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## Rebelneck (Jul 13, 2013)

I do think you have a very handsome cat there, but I would listen to these guys, they really know what they're talking about.

I'm a novice with two beautiful moggies - one neutered and one going to be very shortly.

Take heed of the advice given, you don't want to put your handsome fella at risk of awful diseases and trauma


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

i dont have a problem with a person breeding from a pedigree or a non -pedigree cat as long as they do it responsibly, and i think the poster has been given the information on some of the things that entails ie. health issues for male and female,costs of rearing healthy kittens,responsibility to ensure good homes for the kittens or show willing to keep if no homes are found. 
i wish you and your cats good health and happiness and the widsom to know whats right for all concerned .best wishes


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

CommanderMadi said:


> No I am in Egypt.


I did wonder. Suggest you amend your profile to add the country you are in.

However there is a massive problem in Egypt with too many kittens (and puppies). As far as I know neutering cats (and dogs) is unusual in Egypt, with the inevitable results.


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> I did wonder. Suggest you amend your profile to add the country you are in.
> 
> However there is a massive problem in Egypt with too many kittens (and puppies). As far as I know neutering cats (and dogs) is unusual in Egypt, with the inevitable results.


Exactly, that's why I don't second neutering my boy as well. Sadly there are tons of homeless dogs and cats in our streets but I still do my best to at least take care of some. I have many animals in my garden away from cats as well, I am trying my best to provide care for pets and break the convention of the spread of homeless pets.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

CommanderMadi said:


> Sadly there are tons of homeless dogs and cats in our streets


Then why on earth would you want to create more????


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Aurelie said:


> Then why on earth would you want to create more????


Because I will take care of them till they die.


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## Aurelie (Apr 10, 2012)

CommanderMadi said:


> Because I will take care of them till they die.


All of them? Is this a one off mating or are there likely to be more? No one can tell you what to do, and I suspect you will mate your cat regardless of what anyone says on here, but instead of throwing two cats together, crossing your fingers and hoping for the best, and then flogging them to your nearest pet shop or 'gifting' them out to your friends (as per your earlier post) would it not make more sense to properly evaluate the actual need or want for moggie kittens (who are unlikey to look like your male) in your area?.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

just a suggestion,would you consider not breeding from the female on this heat and waiting possibly until her next season , as you have mentioned she has kittens already being looked after by your friend , this would give the female a chance to be in tip -top condition and also allow you time to access how the homing of the first litter goes, you may find it proves difficult ,or you may find it goes very well, would you be willing to have these kittens back if anything went wrong , new owners do also change their minds sadly, maybe that is why so many end up on the streets, i couldnt imaging not knowing if the kittens that i was responsible for breeding were being properly cared for.


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

CommanderMadi said:


> > Then why on earth would you want to create more????
> 
> 
> Because I will take care of them till they die.


Which does nothing to help the plight of the homeless cats and dogs.


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

OrientalSlave said:


> Which does nothing to help the plight of the homeless cats and dogs.


I meant it for the cats I already have. I changed my mind now and I am not going to gift/sell any of them. I will just allow them to breed for one time, then I will neuter them.



moggiemum said:


> just a suggestion,would you consider not breeding from the female on this heat and waiting possibly until her next season , as you have mentioned she has kittens already being looked after by your friend , this would give the female a chance to be in tip -top condition and also allow you time to access how the homing of the first litter goes, you may find it proves difficult ,or you may find it goes very well, would you be willing to have these kittens back if anything went wrong , new owners do also change their minds sadly, maybe that is why so many end up on the streets, i couldnt imaging not knowing if the kittens that i was responsible for breeding were being properly cared for.


Actually the kittens are 60 days old now, and she doesn't feed them milk anymore, and my friend told me that she is really ready for a new go.



Aurelie said:


> All of them? Is this a one off mating or are there likely to be more? No one can tell you what to do, and I suspect you will mate your cat regardless of what anyone says on here, but instead of throwing two cats together, crossing your fingers and hoping for the best, and then flogging them to your nearest pet shop or 'gifting' them out to your friends (as per your earlier post) would it not make more sense to properly evaluate the actual need or want for moggie kittens (who are unlikey to look like your male) in your area?.


Definitely not all of them. And considering gifting/selling, I changed my mind. I will take care of them. I just want to make an awesome cat family since my house is very big and I do love cats.


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

CommanderMadi said:


> Actually the kittens are 60 days old now, and she doesn't feed them milk anymore, and my friend told me that she is really ready for a new go..


Oh gosh, that is far too soon. You want a break of approx 6 months between litters - sometimes more depending on circumstance.


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## carly87 (Feb 11, 2011)

With the best will in the world, if you have the male and not the female, then you won't be gifting anything, as her kittens will belong to your friend, not you.

If you want to make a happy cat family, why not take in a pregnant street cat? Then you can have the joy of a new litter and a "cat family" and avoid adding further to the problem by breeding your own boy and your friend's girl. Just because you want something doesn't make it right I'm afraid, and the thing is, as your cats are of unknown parentage, you will need to have every single DNA test done to rule out as much as you can, and even then, you're not certain to get healthy kittens as you don't know their history. Do you have approx £500 and more for testing on each cat? If not, are you prepared for the possibility of sick, deformed, unhealthy cats who die young and who don't have a happy life due to their health conditions? Not saying you're guaranteed to get this, but it's entirely possible. Would that give you the happy little family you're seeking?


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## catlove844 (Feb 15, 2011)

Cant really add much more to what has been said, he is beautiful, but un-neutered boys aren't pets, not in my eyes, if there is another boy at her house how do you know that they haven't mated?

Are they just all random bred cats? I don't know anything about Egypt, do you have pedigree cats over there and health testing? HCM / PKD / FIV / FELV ? 

Why not look into a proper breed and doing some cat shows?


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## dagny0823 (Oct 20, 2009)

carly87 said:


> With the best will in the world, if you have the male and not the female, then you won't be gifting anything, as her kittens will belong to your friend, not you.


Is it possible that laws/rules/conventions are different in Egypt than in the UK?


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

dagny0823 said:


> Is it possible that laws/rules/conventions are different in Egypt than in the UK?


The question should be: "Is it possible that laws/rules/conventions are similar in both Egypt and UK?"


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Thank you all for your advice people, I decided, based on what you have said, to not breed my boy. He is golden. I gave back the female to my friend. 

Thanks for the help


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## OrientalSlave (Jan 26, 2012)

Think you've reached the right conclusion. If you want to help cats in Cairo see if you can find any cat welfare organisations to support. I found the following which is based in Cairo:

Egyptian Mau Rescue Organization (EMRO) emaurescue.org :: Who We Are
Egyptian Mau Rescue Organization (EMRO) emaurescue.org :: How You Can Help


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## spotty cats (Jul 24, 2012)

Well didn't that wrap up nicely.

Hopefully you can convince the females owners to spay her as well. If they're letting her have litters every time the kittens are 60 days old she'll soon be worn out, poor girl.


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

hope commandermadi isnt dead ,who will love the cats now


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## Myanimalmadhouse (Mar 6, 2011)

moggiemum said:


> hope commandermadi isnt dead ,who will love the cats now


What happened to that thread, been to the pictures, come back and its gone??


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

ive just messaged moderator to ask?the thread in question has been moved to moderation thats why we cant veiw it
may peace come soon to all troubled lands


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## CommanderMadi (Aug 12, 2013)

Hey people im still alive. They have just jammed all the networks so we couldnt use the internet for a while. We managed to push these gangs away from our area. The situation is dire here. Media cant even reach the alternate streets and see the bodies on the ground..

Why was my thread removed?


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## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

over 800 muslim people have been killed in Egypt what is this world coming to? every time I switch on the news there is something new
I am so so thankful to be living where I am and to have the life I have
my heart goes out to the war stricken parts of the world
surely world peace cant be so hard to achieve


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

sorry about your friend , hows the leg?


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## Shadow And Lightning (Jan 18, 2012)

just made the mistake of watching a clip on facebook streamed from one of the locals, had me in tears some man got killed infront of his kids and wife and gas bombs being thrown
oh its horrible to know these things happen 
CommanderMadi I am glad you're ok and sorry about all the crap going on 
May Allah be with you at this hard time


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## Marycat (Jul 29, 2013)

Just been watching all the trouble in Egypt on the news, Please take care commander. My thoughts are with you at this terrible time. Egypt is so beautiful. I hope this is resolved soon. You came to the right conclusion with your boy by the way. Proud of you! Take care and may God be with you and all the innocent Egyptian civilians x


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## moggiemum (Mar 28, 2013)

stay safe everyone where ever you are in the world


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