# Help! Crazy cats at feeding time!!



## Paigeesaurus (Nov 15, 2018)

Hi,
My partner and I are fairly new to owning cats, but having moved into our first home in May we thought it would be nice to have an extra member to accompany us.
We now have Mango and Freddie.
Mango was adopted in June and Freddie in August. Both from the rspca.
They're now both 6 months old, super healthy and both neutered, from the beginning they've got along lovely.

They're amazingly natured, everyone who meets them says so too. My issue is when it comes to feeding time...
When we first got Mango he was tiny, he got a little excited around food and occasionally tried climbing up my leg. Nothing out of the ordinary, the RSPCA actually free fed him biscuits. We ended up switching him over to hypoallergenic wet food as his tummy didn't agree with most brands.

Freddie was found as a stray and we got him with he was a little older. He does growl when he eats, we seperate the two as Freddie will try and eat Mango's food also. He isn't growling at us should I add. He isn't aggressive to us at all when it comes to touching his bowl only Mango. Due to this I didn't think free feeding would be the best idea.

Freddie will get excited and become vocal when he sees food, he occasionally jumps on the side but, this was learnt from Mango being crazy.
Mango is the one we have a problem with, it doesn't matter if I'm walking out of the kitchen with my food or his he will jump in the air and grab the bowl.
An example would be this morning, I was walking out with some cereal and he tipped it everywhere!!

They have set meal times, set amounts, and set rooms in which they eat in. I have asked the vets multiple times for advice and they say I'm doing everything correct!? They only see food when it's out it's like they have tunnel vision, they will mow down everything in their path to get it. Mango actually made a huge gash in my face one day which has taken well over a month to heal. He didn't do it whilst hissing or anything like that, he was just trying to get out of my arms. I have occasionally held him by the scruff, whilst having him tucked snuggly under my arm for support. Just so I can taken him and his food into a separate room. I don't wanna do that, I feel like him abusing him in some way!?

They attempt to pull the carpets up if I move them into different rooms beforehand.

I know I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what. I love them both so much they're my babies, but I dread feeding them in fear I get scratched up. I've searched high and low on the internet for advice but I thought it'd be best to post something for myself.
Has anyone got some advice!?

Thanks,
Paige~


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

Oh, what a delightful pair they are. It's so lovely they get on so well, and I love the paw beans in the second photo.

They are very young cats, so they will have tons of energy. Do you play with them a lot? Young cats need a lot of play if they don't go out, and they can cause havoc. It doesn't sound like aggressive behaviour, it just sounds like they're both excited about life and it comes out as rather aggressive when it isn't really. Cat obviously like to play, a wand toy which they can run, chase and "kill" will bring out predatory behaviour, and can expend a lot of energy. Some cats like catnap, some aren't bothered. Toys with catnip can also encourage the "kill" behaviour.

Some cats simply don't like being picked up, end of. Some cats don't mind, and most of them only like it for very short periods. They can then "lash out" to get away. How were you holding him? Cats like to feel supported if picked up. Most cats certainly don't like being picked up like a baby. My Holly doesn't mind it, but my previous cat, Betty would have scratched my face if I'd tried it. 
This is useful for tips on holding a cat.





As for the aggression for meal times, I don't really have any ideas! They might just simply be excitable, or if you don't know their background, they might have had to fight for food. It could also be that they're just hungry! Growing cats need more food than you think, and maybe they just need a bit more food. They're both slim, so I don't think you have to worry at this stage, that they're eating too much. Some cats like a fresh raw chicken wing. It keeps them entertained eating it, it's like "prey", and will keep them occupied. Some cats won't entertain them, though.

There are a few people on here, especially @chillminx who is great with cats behaviour and diet, who might be able to help.

And thanks for posting such sweet photographs of your delightful cats. x


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## Jonescat (Feb 5, 2012)

He sounds hungry. He is at the peak growing time for kittens and needs a lot of of food. Lots of it - more than you think he can eat! How much as you feeding him?


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

Hello @Paigeesaurus and welcome 

Lovely photos - what gorgeous kitties you have! 

Jackie C is right, your kittens are getting highly over excited about food and it is appearing as aggression because they are desperate to get to the food.

There is an element of competition between them which is also driving the excited behaviour, and this is not unusual, even between cats/kittens who are pals. Food being a major resource to them, they are very protective of it.

Growling over their food protectively is quite common, especially in kittens. It is a warning to others to keep away, and usually aimed at other cats in the house, but I would take note and not go near a kitty who is growling when eating, as this shows you are being respectful of their wishes.

You are doing the right thing feeding them in separate rooms out of sight of each other. Though if it is easier for you, you could feed them in the same room but at different heights, e.g. one on the floor, and one at the opposite side of the room on a table or worktop. Give each cat the same feeding spot all the time and they will gradually learn to go and wait in their designated spot.

If you can shut them out of the kitchen before you even open the food pouches or cans, then you can prepare their food in peace without risk of them jumping on the worktop or trying to snatch the food.

Once you have the food served up, don't pick up either of the cats as they will be too excited to be handled safely. Buying each cat a microchipped feeder would help a lot, as they won't be able to pinch each other's food. So then you can put say Freddie's feeder on the floor in the kitchen for him in his usual spot, and carrying the other feeder call to Mango to follow you to his feeding spot. He will soon learn to follow you when you are carrying the feeder.

Teaching them to use the chipped feeders should be quick and easy at their age, my girls learnt in one day when they were 5 mth old. Cheapest price at present for the Surefeeder is from amazon.co.uk at £69.99, which may seem expensive but they are worth every penny in a multicat household. You may be able to manage with one feeder just for Freddie if it is he rather than Mango who tries to steal food.

How much are you feeding the boys and what are you feeding them? Getting so over-excited at meal times may mean they are very hungry, and kittens of that age have enormous appetites. Eating 400 grams of wet food a day at their age has been common in all the kittens I have raised. They need a diet high in meat protein, to help build strong muscles, and it is best if the food is grain free without added sugars as a high carb intake is not good for cats - they can't process carbs in the same way that e.g. dogs or humans can.

At that age I would be feeding 4 meals a day, and if they asked for a snack between meals I would give them a little then too.


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## Paigeesaurus (Nov 15, 2018)

Jackie C said:


> Oh, what a delightful pair they are. It's so lovely they get on so well, and I love the paw beans in the second photo.
> 
> They are very young cats, so they will have tons of energy. Do you play with them a lot? Young cats need a lot of play if they don't go out, and they can cause havoc. It doesn't sound like aggressive behaviour, it just sounds like they're both excited about life and it comes out as rather aggressive when it isn't really. Cat obviously like to play, a wand toy which they can run, chase and "kill" will bring out predatory behaviour, and can expend a lot of energy. Some cats like catnap, some aren't bothered. Toys with catnip can also encourage the "kill" behaviour.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for replying! Now you mention it during play time it tends to be more Freddie who engages, I feel like he is slightly dominating the play session. They have lots of toys because I love to buy a new one every time we go shopping! I could try using two laser pointers at once? maybe that'll work
As for holding them they're usually okay, I just scoop Mango up and support his bottom. Freddie likes to be able to look over your shoulder. Thank you for the video I'll definitely give that a watch!
I'm currently feeding them what is recommended on their boxes of food, I feared over feeding them and making them fat. The chicken idea sounds great! Next time we go food shopping I'm going to buy them some.

Thank you so much for your advice!


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## Paigeesaurus (Nov 15, 2018)

chillminx said:


> Hello @Paigeesaurus and welcome
> 
> Lovely photos - what gorgeous kitties you have!
> 
> ...


Hi!

Thank you.
Freddie usually gets shut in a room in peace until he has finished his meal. We usually hear a little meow to say he's finished and then we let him out. He was found on the streets at young age so I suspect this behaviour comes from that.

Ah! I've heard of the microchip feeders before, I think I will have to speak to my boyfriend into investing in two! Then even if Mango jumps at the bowl it won't spill.
I'm feeding them three meals a day using the recommended grams on the box they have.

Mango is currently on hypoallergenic (wainwrights) but Freddie isn't, he's on whiskas currently. I've heard it's not great for them but I've just weaned him onto just wet food from having a mix of biscuits and wet. I once asked the veterinary nurse if whiskas was okay for them to eat and she said there was no difference? I did take it with a pinch of salt.
I didn't wanna pile loads in their bowls as they seem to wolf down their meal and I get worried they'll make themselves sick. These two are the first cats I've owned, so it's a bit of a learning curve from rabbits and dogs haha.

I'll start slowly upping their food to about 400 grams. I didn't realise I wasn't feeding them enough! I feel kinda bad. I've just had a look at the amount in each pouch one says 85g and the other is 100g. I have asked the vets before if I'm feeding them enough and she said I was as they were a lovely weight. But if feeding them a little more won't hurt I definitely will do.

Thank you so much for your advice I really appreciate it! x


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## Paigeesaurus (Nov 15, 2018)

Jonescat said:


> He sounds hungry. He is at the peak growing time for kittens and needs a lot of of food. Lots of it - more than you think he can eat! How much as you feeding him?


The recommended amount on the box, It seems from what I've heard today it might not be enough! Vets have said he's a lovely weight however. 
I'm going to start adding a little more to slowly up the amount they both have.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

@Paigeesaurus - IME vets often like kittens and cats to be lighter in weight than I like mine to be. It's not that I want mine to be _fat _as such, but I like them to be strong and muscular and that only comes from feeding a high meat protein diet, low in carbs.

When feeding kittens wet food I have never bothered going by the recommended amounts on the boxes or cans. Those amounts are only given as "guidelines" they are not meant to be applied strictly to all kittens. Some kittens have a slower metabolism than others, so you would not feed them so much, and some have a very fast metabolism. I think the guidelines are there to ensure that kittens get at least the minimum amount of food they need. Otherwise maybe some people might think it was OK to give them only one pouch a day.

Dry food is different, it is very high in carbs and calories, and I wouldn't let a kitten (or cat) eat more than the recommended amount of dry food. But I only give a few pieces of dry food a day as treats or rewards to mine anyway, so it is not an issue.

Basically I have always fed my kittens as much wet food as they wanted, and have never yet had an overweight kitten.

Whiskas is a not a good quality food - it contains a high percentage of vegetable protein which cats can't digest because they lack the necessary enzyme. It also contains added sugars, so the carb load is high. But Whiskas is no worse nutritionally than many other of the cheap supermarket cat foods such as Felix, Gourmet, etc. etc Perhaps that is what the vet nurse meant when she said there is "no difference" between one cat food and another.

There is certainly a big difference in quality between cat-foods such as Whiskas, Felix etc and the better quality foods such as Meowing Heads, Little Big Paw, Natures Menu, Country Hunter, Lily's Kitchen and Wellness Core. Not to mention the many good quality/good value canned foods from Germany sold on websites such as Zooplus UK (which is where many of us on the forum buy our cat foods)

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches

A growing kitten on a diet of Whiskas is likely to feel hungry and would need more than 3 pouches a day to feel satiated.

Are you also feeding the kittens some home cooked meats such as chicken drumsticks, turkey thigh, casseroled lamb or beef? One meal a day of this will give them the extra meat protein they need and they will feel more replete after it. It is OK to give them up to 20% a day of their diet that is not 'complete' (i.e. without supplements added)

If you add more food to their bowls it is possible they will wolf it down and may make themselves uncomfortable, but tbh, given enough food kittens become very good at judging how much they need to eat. But I think it might be better to add in an extra meal so they have 4 meals a day instead of 3.

If you plan to buy them Microchipped feeders I'd feed them breakfast and if you're going out for the day, put their midday meal in the feeders before you go. They can decide when to eat it. They will be fine then until tea time.

Is this the Wainwrights you are feeding Mango? The feeding guide is 3 to 4 pouches a day for a 6 mth old cat. Which would be 340 grams a day, still not enough IME for a growing kitten, 400 grams would be better.

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/p...d/wainwrights-kitten-chicken-pouches-12-x-85g


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## Paigeesaurus (Nov 15, 2018)

I'm going to be switching Freddie over pretty soon to wainwrights hopefully so that they're on the same food! When I originally started feeding him whiskas I had no idea how bad it was! I've read it's like giving them junk food. 

Mango has a sensitive stomach and wainwrights seems to be working for him currently so I don't want to upset his tummy by changing it. I have started by giving them both a little extra food today, so they will have four meals! 
Someone else also suggested the chicken thing so I'm definitely getting some of that for them next time I go shopping.

What do you think about raw feeding? I've heard little bits about it but is it better for cats? Also would you think Mango would be okay with his sensitive tummy?

I'm sorry I must look silly, thank you for giving me so much advice!


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

You don't look 'silly' at all, I promise! Much better to ask questions if you are unsure and on this forum we are happy to answer questions. 

Quite a few people on this forum feed their cats a raw diet. It needs to be balanced with the correct ratio of muscle meat, offal and bone. So either you can buy it ready prepared from special pet food companies or make up your own at home using a meat grinder. Some people just feed raw muscle meat and add a "completer" i.e. a supplement of vitamins and minerals specially intended for adding to home cooked or raw food.

I used to feed my 2 cats who have IBD a part raw diet, but had to stop as it was causing them upset tummies. And until recently I was feeding my cat with controlled feline dermatitis a raw meal several times a week which he loved (raw rabbit or raw lamb) but I stopped because I became a bit wary after recent developments in the news concerning raw pet food, even though I know the risk is very small indeed statistically speaking. I may go back to feeding him some raw at some stage. I made up my own raw meals using a meat grinder which grinds small bones OK, and kept it deep frozen, defrosting as needed.

There are several FB groups devoted to raw feeding cats, with recipes etc, and also a couple for raw feeding cats with sensitive tummies or IBD. My two cats with IBD seem to be unusual in that a raw diet didn't suit them, but there are plenty who find their IBD cats do better on balanced raw.

p.s. not that I am suggesting Mango has IBD of course,


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## Paigeesaurus (Nov 15, 2018)

chillminx said:


> You don't look 'silly' at all, I promise! Much better to ask questions if you are unsure and on this forum we are happy to answer questions.
> 
> Quite a few people on this forum feed their cats a raw diet. It needs to be balanced with the correct ratios of muscle meat, offal and bone. So either you can buy it ready prepared from special pet food companies or make up your own at home using a meat grinder. Some people just feed raw muscle meat and add a "completer" i.e. a supplement of vitamins and minerals specially intended for adding to home cooked or raw food.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I've never used a forum before everyone here seem so helpful! x

Awesome, thank you! I think I'll definitely do some more research on raw, I want to feed them both the best food I can. 
We aren't sure if he does have IBD or his tummy is just sensitive, he was originally on whiskas. We then switched him to a hypoallergenic biscuit and then onto wainwrights. There's been a lot of trial and error with brands for him. We had a lot of issues before when it came to him going to the litter tray, without sounding too TMI.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

LOL, don't worry about 'TMI' - we are accustomed to discussing pee and poo details on this forum, haha


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

Paigeesaurus said:


> Awesome, thank you! I think I'll definitely do some more research on raw, I want to feed them both the best food I can.


We give Holly raw, but it's not ready-made raw or raw that I make myself (which has things like bone and egg shell I think). I simply give her raw meat (beef, lamb, kangaroo, pheasant) and mix it with "felini" which is a powder you add to meat which makes the meal "complete", ie it gives her the nutritional balance and taurine she needs. Some cats love raw meat, some cats simply don't. If you wanted to try your two, you can give up to 20%, as @chillminx says without supplements. It gives you an idea if they will like it or not. I do give Holly a small amount of wet cat food, simply for variety.


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## chillminx (Nov 22, 2010)

I wonder how much of a risk of TB there is from the raw meat we buy from the supermarket for human consumption? Would TB be specifically mentioned as a risk I wonder, seeing as we are supposed to cook our meat thoroughly before we eat it (and negate the risk from bacteria). I read in a newspaper article a while ago that cattle carcasses with bovine TB have quite often entered the food chain for humans.


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## Jackie C (Feb 16, 2016)

chillminx said:


> I wonder how much of a risk of TB there is from the raw meat we buy from the supermarket for human consumption? Would TB be specifically mentioned as a risk I wonder, seeing as we are supposed to cook our meat thoroughly before we eat it (and negate the risk from bacteria). I read in a newspaper article a while ago that cattle carcasses with bovine TB have quite often entered the food chain for humans.


I don't want to think about it, TBH, it would stress me out. I guess there is no more danger than feeding regular raw that is bought ready-made or raw that people make up themselves (with the egg shell etc).


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