# Pet Corrector Spray - have u used it??



## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Good Morning!

Just thought i'd see if anyone else had used the PET tm Pet Corrector Spray to illiminate bad behaviours. Now my german shep, is an angel to leave at home, never makes a noise, and is generally incredibly obediant... but out and about I have really struggled with his behaviour. I have only had him a few months and unfortunatly he was passed around alot before finding his forever home with us! I took him on not knowing it would be an issue- and ive had several sheps before with similar probs.
Whenever we are out, weather it be a park or the woods etc.. he is perfect off the lead, great with other dogs etc but it is nion impossible for me to leave him tied outside a shop or anywhere.. He barks continuously and will not stop - even if i stand infront of him he just goes into complete panic thinking im going to leave him.. Another problem We've had with him is that if i give his leash to my Boyfriend and even begin to walk away he starts off on his barking spree, all i have to do is turn my back on him and begins to bark.. ofcourse it makes him look insane! haha.. anyway.. hes not atall clingy and doesnt need to be with me 24/7 to feel safe..
With these problems i had been thinking of ways to train him out of the behaviour.. I Was in the pet store the other day and came across the pet corrector spray.. so on a mission ..this morning i headed out with good ol Zeus and decided to give this a go.. I tied him up in several different places, told him to wait, and walked away.. the first few times he whined as i turned my back so i sprayed the bottle ... ( it is not to be sprayed directly at the dog.. infact i spray it downwards - its basically presurised air in a can.. i spray and it makes a loud hissing sound) .. He stayed quiet- amazed i walked around the corner out of sight ... he began to bark.. so i walked bk around- not up to him just so i was in sight and sprayed it again - repeating the word 'wait' .. i repeated this several times in different areas afterwads and not a sound.. he sat quietly and waited patiently for me to walk back.. didnt even whine when i arrived... and so he got his ball as a treat! Good Dog! I'm impressed by this and almost can not believe it was that easy to correct an almost obbsessive behaviour. 
My next test will be in town and unfamiliar places! Lets hope the good work continues! 
Any body else had The same results?


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Incase anyone hasn't seen it - this is all it is


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## Linden_Tree (Jan 6, 2011)

Im intrigued as to how exactly you feel you are changing his behaviour?

The spray obviously works to suppress the barking, but i imagine he is still in the same stressed state of mind - why else would he be barking and whining when you leave him?

I can't say i would use one, i'd much prefer to work out why my dog was expressing behaviours such as the ones you describe, then embark on a behavioural management programme to change the dogs state of mind, so that it is actually happy being left, rather than stressed, but unable to express itself for fear of punishment.

In my opinion, you have done your dog no favours, and i'd certainly expect some fallout from a quick fix solution.

As to the spray, i wouldnt be caught dead using one in such a scenario.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

If he has been passed around, of course he is going to be scared if you leave him. He has bad memories of his owners leaving and not coming back. I would not use any sort of correction on this behaviour; much better to take a few steps away and if he stay calm, even for only a few steps, give him praise and a treat. You can gradually increase the distance over time, but he is already scared and you are making him even more scared.

You must also remember that if you spray this thing where there are other dogs, you can frighten them and upset their training, because they are being corrected as well, and they may be doing nothing wrong. This was pointed out to me yesterday, actually, on this forum and it makes a lot of sense.

I don't wish to sound judgemental, but why leave him tied outside a shop at all? Do you not realise how many dogs have been stolen this way and used as bait for dog fighting rings?

If you leave him with someone, they could stroke him, calm him down and treat him as you walk away. 

You also do not know his history, and what may have been done to him whilst tied up. It is possible that one of these previous owners who couldn't cope, tied him up outside and just left him to the elements.

We used to have a pony who could not be tied up and left. He had been ill treated in the past and there was obviously an association there.

There really are kinder ways of managing this situation, though they do take time.


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## finoni9 (Sep 5, 2008)

I did use it but for a very different reason - we had a rescue Yorkie for a while and he too had been passed around a lot and he got very very stressed out on walkies (he was perfect at home too!) and when he saw another dog - even in the distance he would start this really high pitched yelping and lunging and nothing (not even high value treats) could get his attention.

Someone at the dog rescue said as a last resort to use pet corrector. So when he got into this high state and couldn't here me, I would spray the PC just behind him and it would snap him out of the zone he was in and then I was able to use positive behavioural methods on him. Only used it a handful of times and then was able to use the positive behavioural methods only.

Many people don't like it - but it really helped the little rescue.


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## Tarnus (Apr 5, 2011)

Personally I would never use a PC to correct that particular behaviour. The whining comes from anxiety and fear about being abandoned, which is perfectly understandable if he's been passed from pillar to post in his life, so punishing him (which is what the Pet Corrector does) for being scared and anxious is IMO not an acceptable way to train him, sorry.

Our first trainer used a Pet Corrector to teach dogs not to jump up, which I could understand but still did not like and refused to use on Izzy and we have still never used one for anything. The only reason I think we'd ever buy one is to carry around to try and ward off an aggressive dog, but we'd never use one for training. 

Used correctly I am led to believe they can be really good, but as I said, my opinion is that the way you've used it is wrong.


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## Angel pedigrees (Feb 2, 2012)

Well im sorry but i have used this to stop one of my dogs from barking and it worked a treat, its only a loud noise at the end of the day and it works fine.


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## Tarnus (Apr 5, 2011)

Angel pedigrees said:


> Well im sorry but i have used this to stop one of my dogs from barking and it worked a treat, its only a loud noise at the end of the day and it works fine.


Yes it can be used to stop barking, but it all depends on the reason for barking. If the dog is barking for fun, out of enjoyment or just because it loves the sound of it's voice then yes it could be used. They are learning that barking for the sake of barking is bad. However in this situation the dog is being punished for being scared and anxious which is unacceptable and is likely to only make things worse.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

I understand all your views, and will take your points into consideration - But i would not use it to scare him - and if it did i wouldnt use it atall! It simply distracts him .. it does not scare.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Linden_Tree said:


> Im intrigued as to how exactly you feel you are changing his behaviour?
> 
> The spray obviously works to suppress the barking, but i imagine he is still in the same stressed state of mind - why else would he be barking and whining when you leave him?
> 
> ...


I found it stops the instant reaction to bark - he was not atall stressed when i left him - infact he completly lost interest in the fact i had walked away, again your opinions i can understand , but do not relate personally to my dog , everyone has their views on what they think works and what doesnt, what cruel and what isnt.. if i thought at any point this would cause him to be more stressed i wouldnt have considered it in the first place - please dont assume that because i use a different method of training that i care for my dog any less - as that is not the case


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I think if I had to carry a little spray can round with me, ready to use, I`d give up dog training. 
There are better ways to train, more intelligent ways to train and more effective ways to train.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

The word "corrector" relates to old fashioned ideas of how to train a dog, punishing bad behaviour without teaching a better behaviour. It is the same as the citronella spray collar, and even squirting water in the dog's face. It may stop a behaviour, but it does not teach the dog an alternative behaviour.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> The word "corrector" relates to old fashioned ideas of how to train a dog, punishing bad behaviour without teaching a better behaviour. It is the same as the citronella spray collar, and even squirting water in the dog's face. It may stop a behaviour, but it does not teach the dog an alternative behaviour.


What would you advise would be a better way?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm not sure whether I'd use it for this but only you can assess your dog. 

I have (recently) used a noise for a distraction for my dog (GSD) as I was getting no where with other distractions. She was very reactive on the lead & was very difficult to control when she got in to an OTT state. I know alot of people are against these type of things (I was too intially) but with Roxy if she got over threashold then nothing I could do would bring her round - I spent a year trying. I was not always able to keep her under due to certain cirncumstances & the noise (bottle of stones) worked, she shut up looked at me, sat nicely, she wasn't scared at all but more startled. 

I have not had to use this again, but would consider it if a similar situation arose. She is alot calmer then when we initally got her & I would never have used this with her at first but despite visiting various trainers/behaviorists, reading books regarding reactivity, etc this has been effective for us.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Reddo said:


> What would you advise would be a better way?


I would not use any sort of correction on this behaviour; much better to take a few steps away and if he stay calm, even for only a few steps, give him praise and a treat. You can gradually increase the distance over time. If you leave him with someone else, they can get his attention and stroke him, calm him and treat him. It does take time, but he will eventually connect your walking away with good things coming his way.


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## Angel pedigrees (Feb 2, 2012)

I fully agree it does NOT scare them, they stop barking and mine tilt their heads to say whats that, it is a distraction from the unwanted barking and like i said it does work.

I really dont see the problem in this at all but thats just me!


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## Blitz (Feb 12, 2009)

I would be concerned to use it in this situation but it does sound as though it is working. Some dogs (and GSD's are among the worst) will start up a racket for the sake of it when they are left and it does have to be stopped. I would far rather a quick correction that is obviously working than fiddle around for weeks or months trying to change the behaviour.
Interestingly my sister carries a spray bottle with her GSD guide dog (as instructed) and has to use it when the dog gets over excited or vocal. 

I cannot stand vocal dogs and will stop it as soon as it starts so I dont have vocal dogs. On the other hand I have a friend whose dogs are atrocious, they are all so noisy because she doesnt attempt to stop them as soon as they start up.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Blitz said:


> I would be concerned to use it in this situation but it does sound as though it is working. Some dogs (and GSD's are among the worst) will start up a racket for the sake of it when they are left and it does have to be stopped. I would far rather a quick correction that is obviously working than fiddle around for weeks or months trying to change the behaviour.
> Interestingly my sister carries a spray bottle with her GSD guide dog (as instructed) and has to use it when the dog gets over excited or vocal.
> 
> I cannot stand vocal dogs and will stop it as soon as it starts so I dont have vocal dogs. On the other hand I have a friend whose dogs are atrocious, they are all so noisy because she doesnt attempt to stop them as soon as they start up.


Tbh, I have been trying to address this for year. Our problem is that we don't meet very many dogs to 'practise' with as our walks are quite isolated. We did spend alot of time (& money) going to training classes & we did drive to busier parks but imo this was far more stressful to Roxy than the loud noise.

Once she stopped with all the drama in the training class she was fine; she was focussed, she played with me & the trainers dogs & in no way was she scared or shaken up by it all.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> I'm not sure whether I'd use it for this but only you can assess your dog.
> 
> I have (recently) used a noise for a distraction for my dog (GSD) as I was getting no where with other distractions. She was very reactive on the lead & was very difficult to control when she got in to an OTT state. I know alot of people are against these type of things (I was too intially) but with Roxy if she got over threashold then nothing I could do would bring her round - I spent a year trying. I was not always able to keep her under due to certain cirncumstances & the noise (bottle of stones) worked, she shut up looked at me, sat nicely, she wasn't scared at all but more startled.
> 
> I have not had to use this again, but would consider it if a similar situation arose. She is alot calmer then when we initally got her & I would never have used this with her at first but despite visiting various trainers/behaviorists, reading books regarding reactivity, etc this has been effective for us.


 I agree i would not have used this for any other situation - i also tried the stones in a bottle idea - unfortunatly it wasnt enough to catch his attention - im hoping that by using it today he will be more alert next time were out later - it is not something i plan on using long - out on a walk he wont respond to treats, he isnt interested but would sit quietly for his ball - he wasnt atall scared by the noise.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> I would not use any sort of correction on this behaviour; much better to take a few steps away and if he stay calm, even for only a few steps, give him praise and a treat. You can gradually increase the distance over time. If you leave him with someone else, they can get his attention and stroke him, calm him and treat him. It does take time, but he will eventually connect your walking away with good things coming his way.


Thank you for the advice but unfortunatly We have tried this method several times, unfortunatly with no results.. i cannot even begin to walk away before he starts, he barks so loudly that its hard to get his attention... we have also tried to distract him by having someone talking to him calmy, stroking and being with him, but again he just wouldn't react- was too busy barking. Out side he is not interested in treats, so they didnt work either. I only used the spray as a noise distraction - not to scare and as much as i wasnt completly comfortable with idea myself he was not atall scared by it - he stopped barking and wagged his tail! Please dont get me wrong.. he is still reassured and is rewarded for the good behaviour, again, if i scared him i wldnt use it. I also made sure there were no other dogs around while doing it - as i also understand how this may completly startle other dogs, were as zeus finds it interesting.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

With Roxy I did try to get her interested in a toy & she is OBSESSED with her squeaky kong ball which I can (at times but not always ) get her to recall from chasing animals with but .... even this did not distarct her when she really kicked off.

It was as if she couldn't hear me, see any treat or toy & needed to be snapped out of it. Most times I was able to catch her before she kicked off but at times I wasn't quick enough or the situation was too quick in changing.

In our training class she fine obviously really startled when she heard the noise but didn't look or appear frightened, just actually shut up ... for a change! we continued the rest of the class where she was relaxed, she accepted treats (something she never did when she was stressed) we played with toys & the other dogs, practised recall with distrcations, etc rather than spend the whole lesson with her barking & me trying to (unsuccessfuly) distract her.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> With Roxy I did try to get her interested in a toy & she is OBSESSED with her squeaky kong ball which I can (at times but not always ) get her to recall from chasing animals with but .... even this did not distarct her when she really kicked off.
> 
> It was as if she couldn't hear me, see any treat or toy & needed to be snapped out of it. Most times I was able to catch her before she kicked off but at times I wasn't quick enough or the situation was too quick in changing.
> 
> In our training class she fine obviously really startled when she heard the noise but didn't look or appear frightened, just actually shut up ... for a change! we continued the rest of the class where she was relaxed, she accepted treats (something she never did when she was stressed) we played with toys & the other dogs, practised recall with distrcations, etc rather than spend the whole lesson with her barking & me trying to (unsuccessfuly) distract her.


Sounds very similar- I've tried to distract zeus with his ball also (hes nuts for it!) but he goes into a zone and like u say - its like he cannot hear me, he also does this when my boyfriend or daughter walks further infront, i personally think he has a very strong herding instinc and is unhappy about being behind - if i walk infront with him hes quiet - but if anyone else goes ahead - he starts barking, i have also tried taking him in the opposite direction but he just turns and continues to bark staring at the person who has gone infront.
The thing is is that his loud barking , well it wld terrify anyone who walks by and the noise seems to stop it instantly, its done at a distance and away from him, but it works and doesnt seem to stress him out if anything he seems as if he completly forgets what the problem was, while out this morning and being around the corner for a few moments to be sure he remained quiet i came back to find him sniffing the ground, completly happy.

I dont tie him up often and luckily live in a very quiet village in the country side.. but sometimes i do have to pass him over to my bf to go and fetch something or help my daughter.

I think if anything he has realised in the past that barking loudly gets the person to return.. i dont think its an anxiety thing.. looking at it now it just seems like he knows that if he makes a racket , theyll come back faster.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Old Dog said:


> If it can be used to eliminate bad spelling, do let me know.


Apologies for my bad spelling - and im sorry that it seems to offend you but was that really needed?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Reddo said:


> Sounds very similar- I've tried to distract zeus with his ball also (hes nuts for it!) but he goes into a zone and like u say - its like he cannot hear me, he also does this when my boyfriend or daughter walks further infront, i personally think he has a very strong herding instinc and is unhappy about being behind - if i walk infront with him hes quiet - but if anyone else goes ahead - he starts barking, i have also tried taking him in the opposite direction but he just turns and continues to bark staring at the person who has gone infront.
> The thing is is that his loud barking , well it wld terrify anyone who walks by and the noise seems to stop it instantly, its done at a distance and away from him, but it works and doesnt seem to stress him out if anything he seems as if he completly forgets what the problem was, while out this morning and being around the corner for a few moments to be sure he remained quiet i came back to find him sniffing the ground, completly happy.
> 
> I dont tie him up often and luckily live in a very quiet village in the country side.. but sometimes i do have to pass him over to my bf to go and fetch something or help my daughter.
> ...


I can recognise slight differences when roxy goes in to Mrs Nutcase mode (that's what we call it!) & alot of times it's frustration but she can do it to get attention. In one of our classes she just wanted another GSD to look at her, every time he looked away she kicked off but as soon as he looked back her she was quiet.

She used to do this to me in the class as well. The trainer (in our old classes) would tell me to walk away so I did & each time Roxy started again she would look over towards me. I think, in some ways, she had gotten in to a habit of barking & this just kept getting reinforced the more she did it.

Sometimes though, as you say, they just bark & the more they bark the more they hype themselves up. When my dogs are playing (I have Toby a x breed ) they run round the garden barking at each other (we don't really have neighbours so it's not a problem) & seem to enjoy this but don't get OTT. If they do then I clap my hands which again startles them to look up at me.

I would be wary of using a loud noise if my dog was nervous or stressed (Roxy was when she first came to live with us so I would not have used this then) & only recently considered this.

I wouldn't over use this method & would still continue with rewards & distractions but do now carry a bottle of stones with me in case I should need to use them.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> I can recognise slight differences when roxy goes in to Mrs Nutcase mode (that's what we call it!) & alot of times it's frustartion but she can do it to get attntion. In one of our classes she just wnated another GSD to look at her, every time he lookked aways she kicked of but as soon as he looked back her she was quiet.
> 
> She used to do this to me in the class as well,. the trainer (in our old classes) would tell me to walk away so I did & each time Roxy started again she would look over towards me. I think, in some ways, she had gotten in to a habit of barking & this just kept gettingreinforced the more she did it.
> 
> ...


That sounds very reasonable, zeus and shanti(my partners dog) do play alot also - and tend to be abit noisy but we leave them to unless again they get to worked up and the clap works in this situation.
Dont worry this definatly wasnt a plan to use as a long term solution, Even this morning i only used the noise 4 times in an hour long walk, I'm certain now that its not a stressed reaction, more of a 'look at me' kind of thing - but im hoping now that carrying on getting him used to me walking away with no noise distraction will atleast help. I plan to do this a few times a walk just so that it becomes a normal part of his routine to be held by someone else or for me to walk away from him - hes an incredibly fast learner, when hes listening


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## dexter (Nov 29, 2008)

Old Dog said:


> If it can be used to eliminate bad spelling, do let me know.


weird comment for a first post???????


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

dexter said:


> weird comment for a first post???????


I thought that too


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Reddo said:


> That sounds very reasonable, zeus and shanti(my partners dog) do play alot also - and tend to be abit noisy but we leave them to unless again they get to worked up and the clap works in this situation.
> Dont worry this definatly wasnt a plan to use as a long term solution, Even this morning i only used the noise 4 times in an hour long walk, I'm certain now that its not a stressed reaction, more of a 'look at me' kind of thing - but im hoping now that carrying on getting him used to me walking away with no noise distraction will atleast help. I plan to do this a few times a walk just *so that it becomes a normal part of his routine *to be held by someone else or for me to walk away from him - hes an incredibly fast learner, when hes listening


That;s simiar to me. I do not want Roxy to conitnue with her 'normal routine' of kicking off every time we see another dog she can't get to so have used the noise as more of an interrupter to get her to look at me.

We have only used it the one & when we attended her class last week (there were 15 dogs there!!) she went to kick off but as iI caught her with a a 'leave it' I didn't need the noise.

I fully expected her to go off on one last week with the amount of dogs around us (although we were spaced out alot) as she had never been anywhere with such a large number but she was amazing. She was obviously a bit stressed by it all (another reason why I held off using the noise) but still a MASSIVE improvement to previous classes & she did manage to remain calm & focussed alot more .... just have to see what happens this week now though!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Reddo said:


> Apologies for my bad spelling - and im sorry that it seems to offend you but was that really needed?


No, it wasn't. Extremely bad manners and not how things are conducted on this forum.

But I suppose it could be used to correct bad spelling, if you were standing over someone and sprayed the thing by his ear every time he spelt something wrong?

Please ignore people like this; they are really not worth worrying about. If one is given the gift of being able to spell, one should be grateful, not patronising.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> That;s simiar to me. I do not want Roxy to conitnue with her 'normal routine' of kicking off every time we see another dog she can't get to so have used the noise as more of an interrupter to get her to look at me.
> 
> We have only used it the one & when we attended her class last week (there were 15 dogs there!!) she went to kick off but as iI caught her with a a 'leave it' I didn't need the noise.
> 
> I fully expected her to go off on one last week with the amount of dogs around us (although we were spaced out alot) as she had never been anywhere with such a large number but she was amazing. She was obviously a bit stressed by it all (another reason why I held off using the noise) but still a MASSIVE improvement to previous classes & she did manage to remain calm & focussed alot more .... just have to see what happens this week now though!


Thats brilliant - i hope she continues to improve


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

I would just say, if you have used it, it appears to have stopped ithe behaviour and so far the dog doesnt seem bothered by it then, you have possibly been lucky.

Using things like pet correctors and rattle bottles/cans can back fire though.
All they tend to do is supress the behaviour, often once the dog has gotten over the initial "shock" and effect of the noise they often ignore it and carry on and/or eventually revert back to the behaviour.

The main danger is if a behaviour is fear based or out of uncertainty or anxiouness in the first place. Using Pet correctors, and rattle bottles can exacerbate the problem used in these type of conditions. They can also make some dogs if anxious or nervous types noise sensitive or noise phobic too so you end up with another problem on top of the one you have already.

Used on pups and young dogs they can also be very dangerous, especially as pups go through fear periods. The second fear period can be anything from 6mths to 14mths depending on the individual dog and breed, which means a fear period can clash with the hormone levels rising and the beginning of the teenage strops, so its often a time when people try them because the dog has begun to develope "stroppy" behaviour. Fear periods can come on suddenly too. One minute a pup/dog an be full of confidence and outgoing, then very suddenly start to react to sights sounds and situations again with uncertainty and even fear. So something like a pet corrector or rattle bottle used at this time can be really detrimental. I read somewhere that around 80% of behavioural problems can be linked to uncertainty and fear based, so unless you have had a professional assesment of the cause of any behaviour then it can be a dangerous game to play. Personally I wouldnt use them, I have seen them used and the few times I have the effect didnt seem to last anyway.

Just my Opinion though.


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

dexter said:


> weird comment for a first post???????


Going to have a field day with me then, I always end having to edit for typos
and then still miss a few here and there.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Going to have a field day with me then, I always end having to edit for typos
> and then still miss a few here and there.


I'm a nightmare for it, its not really that im a bad speller - more that i type far to quickly


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Reddo said:


> I'm a nightmare for it, its not really that im a bad speller - more that i type far to quickly


Me too, & I'm at work so have to have a very small internet explorer window open & can't always check .... well, that's my excuse!

Maybe I need a corrector to stop my addiction to pf whilst work!


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> Me too, & I'm at work so have to have a very small internet explorer window open & can't always check .... well, that's my excuse!
> 
> Maybe I need a corrector to stop my addiction to pf whilst work!


Haha who cares , as long as its understandable


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Going to have a field day with me then, I always end having to edit for typos
> and then still miss a few here and there.


Well, no need to worry any more; it seems that the spelling police have joined us.

I have always been lucky enough to be able to spell, but I am lucky to have a good enough memory, that if I see something once, I will remember how it is spelt. That is fading a bit with age though


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Reddo said:


> I'm a nightmare for it, its not really that im a bad speller - more that i type far to quickly


Same here my actual spelling isnt perfect but on the whole quite good, my brain just goes ahead of what im typing, although my typing could be more accurate granted. I did pitmans typing at school and the teacher used to cellotape paper over the keys cos I looked, still have to now


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Well, no need to worry any more; it seems that the spelling police have joined us.
> 
> I have always been lucky enough to be able to spell, but I am lucky to have a good enough memory, that if I see something once, I will remember how it is spelt. That is fading a bit with age though


It must be nice though to have a life where everything is so good and in its place, thats all you need to worry about is other peoples spelling. Obviously Im doing something wrong.


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I have used PCS back when Jed was a pup and I didnt know as much as I do now about training and behaviours. I still have the same can 6 years later so that shows you how little I used it and I cant remember the last time I sprayed it. I did once use it when Jed was behaving aggressively at children passing by the gate. It seemed to work well for a while because he would just come inside if he saw the children.

I definitely wouldnt use it on an overly sensitive dog, which would include my 2 collies, and it can actually create more problems than you are trying to eliminate. The same thing happened when I used a citronella collar to stop barking, it didnt work at all and new problem behaviours appeared as well.

I think they are 'quick fix' solutions that dont actually work in the long run and I wouldnt contemplate them nowadays.


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

I must be having a dense day so excuse if its a daft observation, if your dog is fine when left at home but not when tied up outside a shop isn't the easiest answer to leave him at home when you go to the shop?


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

DoodlesRule said:


> I must be having a dense day so excuse if its a daft observation, if your dog is fine when left at home but not when tied up outside a shop isn't the easiest answer to leave him at home when you go to the shop?


Love it  Best suggestion yet


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Leanne77 said:


> I have used PCS back when Jed was a pup and I didnt know as much as I do now about training and behaviours. I still have the same can 6 years later so that shows you how little I used it and I cant remember the last time I sprayed it. I did once use it when Jed was behaving aggressively at children passing by the gate. It seemed to work well for a while because he would just come inside if he saw the children.
> 
> I definitely wouldnt use it on an overly sensitive dog, which would include my 2 collies, and it can actually create more problems than you are trying to eliminate. The same thing happened when I used a citronella collar to stop barking, it didnt work at all and new problem behaviours appeared as well.
> 
> I think they are 'quick fix' solutions that dont actually work in the long run and I wouldnt contemplate them nowadays.


I understand your point  I will continue to try him in different situations and see how he goes, im hoping i wont need to use a noise distraction again - we shall see, he seemed much more comfortable about the idea of me walking away today after i had done it a few times, i think i will just continue to tie him in certain areas and walk away, or get other people to hold him and see how he reacts, get him used to it .. if he sits quiet and is happy to be left then i will try to make it a more regular accurance just so its something he is used to. That way in the rare situation in which i will need to do such a thing - it wont be so abnormal for him


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> I would just say, if you have used it, it appears to have stopped ithe behaviour and so far the dog doesnt seem bothered by it then, you have possibly been lucky.
> 
> Using things like pet correctors and rattle bottles/cans can back fire though.
> All they tend to do is supress the behaviour, often once the dog has gotten over the initial "shock" and effect of the noise they often ignore it and carry on and/or eventually revert back to the behaviour.
> ...


I agree with your comments & would not have used this with Roxy when she initially came to live with us. I would also not want to over use this & in the past 2wks it has only been used during our 1-2-1 with the new trainer.

Although I took the bottle to the class last week I decided not to use it as she was a bit stressed in the environment & I was quick enough to 'catch' her before she started kicking off.

I would not have used this as an intial training tool but since we have tried alot of things over the year I thought it was worth a go.

This was not something that I thought may be a quick fix & I have taken professional advice over the past year regarding Roxy's behaviour (from recommended APDT/COAPE trainers) but we really hadn't made much progress regarding this.

I had (sort of) been told by a couple of trainers that this was something I may just have to expect to 'manage' rather than stop which I didn't agree with.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

DoodlesRule said:


> I must be having a dense day so excuse if its a daft observation, if your dog is fine when left at home but not when tied up outside a shop isn't the easiest answer to leave him at home when you go to the shop?


Now that is what I was going to say in the first place, but I was too polite

I couldn't leave Ferdie outside a shop with anyone. He will stay with my son for a little while now, but get extremely agitated and difficult to him to hold. So I just don't do it.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> I must be having a dense day so excuse if its a daft observation, if your dog is fine when left at home but not when tied up outside a shop isn't the easiest answer to leave him at home when you go to the shop?


yes it would be , but i do not mean in the middle of town or a city, i live in a small village and often pass the shop on the way back from the walk - its not just this situation he reacts to but others similar.. The thing is that my boyfriend takes his dog pretty much everywere he can,his dog is used to this and i would like to get zeus a little more used to being with us when we go out - i would like to take him out when its an option rather than leave him alone.. So he can come to shows with me etc, i do not mean that ill take him out just to tie him up, but on some rare occasions i do have to pass him to my bf or tie him somewer for a short while, its in these moments that he barks - I would just like to try and prevent the barking so these moments are more smooth for all of us  
Also another example is if we are taking the dogs to a large area , country house grounds or a park, were dogs are allowed we sometimes keep him on the lead, as i know not everyone walking by would appreciate a german shep running around off the lead - alot of people are scared by him, ( not because hes misbehaved , but bcus of his size and most probably breed) i will ask my partner to hold zeus while i take my daughter to the toilet - a situation in which is easier for me to taker her (shes only 3) and zeus will go nuts when i walk away.. I'd just like those times to go abit more smoothly


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## DoodlesRule (Jul 7, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> Now that is what I was going to say in the first place, but I was too polite
> 
> I couldn't leave Ferdie outside a shop with anyone. He will stay with my son for a little while now, but get extremely agitated and difficult to him to hold. So I just don't do it.


 does that mean it was a rude thing to ask, didn't mean to be just seemed logic


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

I don't know i guess i would just prefer to take him with us if i can - rather than leave him at home all the time, does that make sense?


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## Leanne77 (Oct 18, 2011)

I have 2 dogs who are perfectly fine being tied up and left, then I have one dog who goes bananas if I tie him up and leave him, even if he can still see me, and his barks are LOUD!
I was once walking in Sherwood Forest and was desperate for the loo so I went to the visitors centre, tied the dogs up and went about my business. First it started off as whining which quickly escalated into maniacal barking and I couldnt do anything about it as I was indispensed on the toilet! I just had to sit there listening to the racket he was making!

So, all in all I dont tie my dogs up generally because I know the outcome and TBH, barking dogs outside of shops etc are a nuisance to others.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

DoodlesRule said:


> does that mean it was a rude thing to ask, didn't mean to be just seemed logic


no i wouldnt say it was rude, i thought it myself - it would be easier to just leave him at home, but part of me thinks it would be unfair to leave him at home while we all go out some were , when he could be joining us


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Leanne77 said:


> I have 2 dogs who are perfectly fine being tied up and left, then I have one dog who goes bananas if I tie him up and leave him, even if he can still see me, and his barks are LOUD!
> I was once walking in Sherwood Forest and was desperate for the loo so I went to the visitors centre, tied the dogs up and went about my business. First it started off as whining which quickly escalated into maniacal barking and I couldnt do anything about it as I was indispensed on the toilet! I just had to sit there listening to the racket he was making!
> 
> So, all in all I dont tie my dogs up generally because I know the outcome and TBH, barking dogs outside of shops etc are a nuisance to others.


Yes that makes sense, and until now i normally wouldnt bother tiying him up as i knew the reaction ... but i was hoping there may be a way around it, if not then i shall go back to simply avoiding putting him in that situation to begin with


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Reddo said:


> no i wouldnt say it was rude, i thought it myself - it would be easier to just leave him at home, but part of me thinks it would be unfair to leave him at home while we all go out some were , when he could be joining us


Yes, you're right. if you are passing a shop from a walk, then of course you might want to leave him outside, though I hope you can see him. I won't leave mine outside where I can't see them; Ferdie would have the post down anyway, but I worry about Diva as she would probably go off with anyone. So, when I just had her one day and needed to go in the shop, I just opened the door and asked the owner if I could bring her in for a couple of minutes. I only wanted cigarettes, wasn't going anywhere near the food part. He was fine about it, but of course someone had to complain.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Leanne77 said:


> I have 2 dogs who are perfectly fine being tied up and left, then I have one dog who goes bananas if I tie him up and leave him, even if he can still see me, and his barks are LOUD!
> I was once walking in Sherwood Forest and was desperate for the loo so I went to the visitors centre, tied the dogs up and went about my business. First it started off as whining which quickly escalated into maniacal barking and I couldnt do anything about it as I was indispensed on the toilet! I just had to sit there listening to the racket he was making!
> 
> So, all in all I dont tie my dogs up generally because I know the outcome and TBH, barking dogs outside of shops etc are a nuisance to others.


But then that would indicate that at times a dog may have to be left on it's own so wouldn't it be wise to prepare for a situation like that?

Am not saying that it is best to use a pet corrector but at times if you need to leave your dog then for the dogs sake it's best if you can train them to be calm when separated from you.

I would never leave Roxy tied up outside a shop as this would be too much for her but I do practise leaving her at home, she may be separated in another room, we also do this in the garden, etc & are building on her being either tethered & away from us or just being put away on her own for a while(not long periods) in case this is required at a later date.

Same with Toby although he's always happy .... as long as it's not a visit to the vets & that's another 'training' matter


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Yes, you're right. if you are passing a shop from a walk, then of course you might want to leave him outside, though I hope you can see him. I won't leave mine outside where I can't see them; Ferdie would have the post down anyway, but I worry about Diva as she would probably go off with anyone. So, when I just had her one day and needed to go in the shop, I just opened the door and asked the owner if I could bring her in for a couple of minutes. I only wanted cigarettes, wasn't going anywhere near the food part. He was fine about it, but of course someone had to complain.


Yes its a shame they are not allowed in shops. He would be visable from inside the shop and i would always keep an eye on him anyway, and my partner would wait outside if he was with me, even then he would bark tbh i do try not to tie him any were anyway more for other peoples sake- i understand that he may look scary to some and don't want to put people in a situation that there uncomfortable with, but on some occasions if we are out and about it needs to be done, like i say rarely, sometimes i dont have someone with me who can pop in for me etc


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> But then that would indicate that at times a dog may have to be left on it's onw so wouldn't it be wise to prepare for a situation like that?
> 
> Am not saying that it is best to use a pet corrector but at times if you need to leave your dog then for the dpogs sake it's best if you can train them to be calm when separated from you.
> 
> ...


This is what i am trying to do, get him used to the idea of being left for a few minutes - thing is this training needs to be done with my partner too as hes normally the one holding him while i pop in a shop or to the toilet, so we shall start doing that as of today, I'm sure in time he will become used to the fact that i will return for him shortly and that Luke is almost always there with him too


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Reddo said:


> This is what i am trying to do, get him used to the idea of being left for a few minutes - thing is this training needs to be done with my partner too as hes normally the one holding him while i pop in a shop or to the toilet, so we shall start doing that as of today, I'm sure in time he will become used to the fact that i will return for him shortly and that Luke is almost always there with him too


Maybe start off in the house & garden (or you might have doen that already!). We try & do this sort of thing on walks with Roxy. At times we will split the dogs up, or I will walk off , etc just to try & hget her used to different scenarios.

She hates this but has improved, she seems to like us all together where she can keep an eye on us all  At first she used to really get stressed by it all but does seem to accept that Toby may go off with my OH or I may go off on my own, etc


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> Maybe start off in the house & garden (or you might have doen that already!). We try & do this sort of thing on walks with Roxy. At times we will split the dogs up, or I will walk off , etc just to try & hget her used to different scenarios.
> 
> She hates this but has improved, she seems to like us all together where she can keep an eye on us all  At first she used to really get stressed by it all but does seem to accept that Toby may go off with my OH or I may go off on my own, etc


Yep, sounds like what i plan to do.. and zeus is the same lol he likes us all were he can see us, hes fine at home and in the garden - so this training will be focused on while we are out and about


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## 1290423 (Aug 11, 2011)

there are many on here who will though a fit at the mere mention of the word pet correcter!

ME being one who HAS used it! And with the desired results - *for the short term!*

The reason I used it was to stop one of my dogs stealing of the worktops! OK a firm know could hae done the job equally well but this dog would EVEN if you had hold of her collar continue to gobble whatever it was she was fancying! YET, the mere site on the can would get her attention.

That said it was NEVER a long term cure as she still does do this when unattended!

Don't think the PC is as bad as many make out providing you a spot on with the timing and DONT overuse it!
But at for a long term cure - then forget it.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

DT said:


> there are many on here who will though a fit at the mere mention of the word pet correcter!
> 
> ME being one who HAS used it! And with the desired results - *for the short term!*
> 
> ...


your right, and i think alot of people agree.. its good for the exact moment but at the end of the day its not a long term solution, ive decided to try to prevent using it were nessisary and continue with other methods


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

DT said:


> there are many on here who will though a fit at the mere mention of the word pet correcter!
> 
> ME being one who HAS used it! And with the desired results - *for the short term!*
> 
> ...


dont worry i wasnt intending on using this alot - as i know that it would be pretty pointless.. hed get used to it after time anyway


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

I have a couple of cans, one in the car and one in the house and also a little pocket sized one. 
I take my pocket one out whenever we go walking incase we meet an aggressive dog.
Simba has had moments when he's needed reminding, times like when he will just stare at another dog, teeth start coming out and ridge goes up, a short spray takes his attention away and stops this behaviour.
Also we use it when we go to my parents, their dog and Simba have issues...sometimes they are fine then all of a sudden a fight breaks out, a short spray and they split without issue. 
I think I much prefer this method than ripping them apart and maybe even doing more harm to the dogs.


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## portiaa (Dec 10, 2010)

I have one, but it's only to take on walks with me. 

Just incase of a situation with an aggressive/very out of control dog charging over to mine, then I spray it. Purely to distract the dog/scare it. 

This is the only situations I use it in.


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

I use the spray and don't leave home without it when walking my dog BUT I don't use it the way you do 

I use it in case of a dogfight (handbags only) or during one as most dogs do not like the sound and I find it effective.


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## spaniel04 (Nov 27, 2011)

To be honest, it is not something I would ever use on my dogs. As working gundogs the last thing I would want is for them to become nervous of a noise, any noise. 
I think it is something you need to solve with lots and lots of training. I wouldn't expect any untrained dog to do a quiet sit/stay with the owner walking out of sight. You will have to start with baby steps, literally one step away from the dog and back again, and build it up from there. 
Good luck. :001_smile:


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

spaniel04 said:


> To be honest, it is not something I would ever use on my dogs. As working gundogs the last thing I would want is for them to become nervous of a noise, any noise.
> I think it is something you need to solve with lots and lots of training. I wouldn't expect any untrained dog to do a quiet sit/stay with the owner walking out of sight. You will have to start with baby steps, literally one step away from the dog and back again, and build it up from there.
> Good luck. :001_smile:


Thank you  i will try this aswell


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Just wanted to say thnx for all ur advice and opinions and tht i decided not to use the spray anymore, didnt bother taking it with me, you all made good points and i realised it wldnt be a solution, i think ill keep hold of it to break up dog fights if any occur but not for wat i was using it for, good news is i did the same excersizes with zeus today and he remained calm and quiet.. so will continue now with his ball as a tool. I found that just taking the ball and giving iit to him when i return was enouh for him to remain quiet, its great bcus i had tried this b4 but it didnt work. He seems to be responding well, got a long way to go yet but a positive start  thanks again


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Reddo said:


> Just wanted to say thnx for all ur advice and opinions and tht i decided not to use the spray anymore, didnt bother taking it with me, you all made good points and i realised it wldnt be a solution, i think ill keep hold of it to break up dog fights if any occur but not for wat i was using it for, good news is i did the same excersizes with zeus today and he remained calm and quiet.. so will continue now with his ball as a tool. I found that just taking the ball and giving iit to him when i return was enouh for him to remain quiet, its great bcus i had tried this b4 but it didnt work. He seems to be responding well, got a long way to go yet but a positive start  thanks again


Glad to hear that your training went well today. It's always so encouraging when you make progress 

We have our training class tonight so am hoping I too feel positive afterwards & don't have the loudest dog like I usually do!


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> Glad to hear that your training went well today. It's always so encouraging when you make progress
> 
> We have our training class tonight so am hoping I too feel positive afterwards & don't have the loudest dog like I usually do!


Thank you, good luck for tonight, i hope to get zeus into some proper training classes soon, will have to see of there are any close to me. I imagine they are quite fun to participate in?


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Reddo said:


> Thank you, good luck for tonight, i hope to get zeus into some proper training classes soon, will have to see of there are any close to me. I imagine they are quite fun to participate in?


Local Dog Trainers in Dorset UK
Here's a list of some trainers, if you contact them they may let you know if they do classes.

I've been doing classes for years and find 'em useful :thumbup1:

My once DA Malamute is now practicing for her Good citizens Gold award


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

SpringerHusky said:


> Local Dog Trainers in Dorset UK
> Here's a list of some trainers, if you contact them they may let you know if they do classes.
> 
> I've been doing classes for years and find 'em useful :thumbup1:
> ...


Thank you that is very helpful, im sure luke would be interested in taking shanti too, they both need areas of their training improved, thats great to hear about your malamute congrats  could i ask are they usually held on weekdays or weekends?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Reddo said:


> Thank you, good luck for tonight, i hope to get zeus into some proper training classes soon, will have to see of there are any close to me. I imagine they are quite fun to participate in?


LOL, they are fun when I take my 'normal' dog Toby but more 'interesting' with Roxy!!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Reddo said:


> Thank you that is very helpful, im sure luke would be interested in taking shanti too, they both need areas of their training improved, thats great to hear about your malamute congrats  could i ask are they usually held on weekdays or weekends?


Thank you and I think it depends who does it, it's more common for weekday nights but I have heard of some doing weekends.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Ahh there is someone just 15 mimutes drive away brilliant!


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## SpringerHusky (Nov 6, 2008)

Reddo said:


> Ahh there is someone just 15 mimutes drive away brilliant!


Awesome :thumbup1: good luck x


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> LOL, they are fun when I take my 'normal' dog Toby but more 'interesting' with Roxy!!


Im sure zeus would be ok, hes good with other dogs, itll be interestin if i can keep his interest with all the other dogs around! Ill have to give it ago


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Reddo said:


> Just wanted to say thnx for all ur advice and opinions and tht i decided not to use the spray anymore, didnt bother taking it with me, you all made good points and i realised it wldnt be a solution, i think ill keep hold of it to break up dog fights if any occur but not for wat i was using it for, good news is i did the same excersizes with zeus today and he remained calm and quiet.. so will continue now with his ball as a tool. I found that just taking the ball and giving iit to him when i return was enouh for him to remain quiet, its great bcus i had tried this b4 but it didnt work. He seems to be responding well, got a long way to go yet but a positive start  thanks again


I must admit it seems to be a GSD thing, there have been severl round and about me over the years that I know and they all seem to vocalise at things when out. The "solution" with the 3 different dogs I can think of immediately all seemed to be carrying something in their mouths when out. One used to carry a wooden dumbell, the other again something similar although a plastic version and one I see daily almost now, always carries one of those knotted rope toys. With all three it did the trick. The latter one I mentioned actually went to a GSD training club specifically for the breed as she had quite a few problems when rescued around 7ish, so I assume that was suggested there.
Mind you how low can you go someone actually stole one of the toys when she was outside a shop when the owner came out apparently, there was no sign of it at all.

The only thing I would possibly say is that if you try it, then you may need to watch other dogs being in close proximity they can get a bit possessive of the "toy" or so I ve noticed at times and of course I suppose some could with people too. So that would be the only comment on doing this.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> I must admit it seems to be a GSD thing, there have been severl round and about me over the years that I know and they all seem to vocalise at things when out. The "solution" with the 3 different dogs I can think of immediately all seemed to be carrying something in their mouths when out. One used to carry a wooden dumbell, the other again something similar although a plastic version and one I see daily almost now, always carries one of those knotted rope toys. With all three it did the trick. The latter one I mentioned actually went to a GSD training club specifically for the breed as she had quite a few problems when rescued around 7ish, so I assume that was suggested there.
> Mind you how low can you go someone actually stole one of the toys when she was outside a shop when the owner came out apparently, there was no sign of it at all.
> 
> The only thing I would possibly say is that if you try it, then you may need to watch other dogs being in close proximity they can get a bit possessive of the "toy" or so I ve noticed at times and of course I suppose some could with people too. So that would be the only comment on doing this.


Hey, yea i agree = german shepherds tend to be a noisy bunch. Its silly that one of the dogs toys was stolen, i often see them in the field but don't pick them up incase the owner passes through again and retrieves it.
Zeus has always had a ball out on walks, he loves fetch more than you can imagine  i'd had been using it for general obdience training, as he will completly turn his nose up at a treat if he can see his ball- so far we havnt had an incident were another dog has gone for his ball, but if i saw one close i would be sure to warn the owner before hand, he is slightly possessive so i find its better to be safe, but he much better than when i first got him. 
The field i take him to is enclosed and not many people pass through with other dogs so were quite lucky really as its a perfect spot for training - most of the time if a dog passes through i will hook zeus back on his lead until they pass anyway - as most people wont enter the field at the sight of him, which is a shame really because hes a friendly chap..poor guy lol


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Reddo said:


> Hey, yea i agree = german shepherds tend to be a noisy bunch. Its silly that one of the dogs toys was stolen, i often see them in the field but don't pick them up incase the owner passes through again and retrieves it.
> Zeus has always had a ball out on walks, he loves fetch more than you can imagine  i'd had been using it for general obdience training, as he will completly turn his nose up at a treat if he can see his ball- so far we havnt had an incident were another dog has gone for his ball, but if i saw one close i would be sure to warn the owner before hand, he is slightly possessive so i find its better to be safe, but he much better than when i first got him.
> The field i take him to is enclosed and not many people pass through with other dogs so were quite lucky really as its a perfect spot for training - most of the time if a dog passes through i will hook zeus back on his lead until they pass anyway - as most people wont enter the field at the sight of him, which is a shame really because hes a friendly chap..poor guy lol


Might be worth seeing if he will carry a toy about all the time, seems to work on these dogs. the one I mentioned I see every day, she used to really vocalise at every dog she saw including mine, but now with the rope toy in her mouth there isnt even a sound, she just walks on by even at close range, so permanently having it has done the trick with her.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Might be worth seeing if he will carry a toy about all the time, seems to work on these dogs. the one I mentioned I see every day, she used to really vocalise at every dog she saw including mine, but now with the rope toy in her mouth there isnt even a sound, she just walks on by even at close range, so permanently having it has done the trick with her.


It is clever, zeus is the type to carry his ball every were anyway -and your right, its stopped him being vocal towards dogs he passes, hes too worried about dropping the ball haha,hes almost completly unresponsive now even without the ball  He carries it all the way to the field and then back home, drops it in front of the door 
He has a rope toy at home but im not sure he'd be as enthusiastic about lugging that around - its quite a big one! :biggrin: but then again he will carry the biggest stick he can find no matter how heavy, but thats different.. thats *sticks!*


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> I must admit it seems to be a GSD thing, there have been severl round and about me over the years that I know and they all seem to vocalise at things when out. The "solution" with the 3 different dogs I can think of *immediately all seemed to be carrying something in their mouths when out*. One used to carry a wooden dumbell, the other again something similar although a plastic version and one I see daily almost now, always carries one of those knotted rope toys. With all three it did the trick. The latter one I mentioned actually went to a GSD training club specifically for the breed as she had quite a few problems when rescued around 7ish, so I assume that was suggested there.
> Mind you how low can you go someone actually stole one of the toys when she was outside a shop when the owner came out apparently, there was no sign of it at all.
> 
> The only thing I would possibly say is that if you try it, then you may need to watch other dogs being in close proximity they can get a bit possessive of the "toy" or so I ve noticed at times and of course I suppose some could with people too. So that would be the only comment on doing this.


Funny you should mention this but this is what I have tried with Roxy with varying degress of success, then there is the worry that the other dog may try & steal it!

Roxy always seems to have to have something in her mouth when she is excited or stressed. When I come in from work she has to quickly grab something & if a toy isn't at hand then she'll use the tea towel or a slipper. I sort of assumed it was like a calming aid for her


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> Roxy always seems to have to have something in her mouth when she is excited or stressed. When I come in from work she has to quickly grab something & if a toy isn't at hand then she'll use the tea towel or a slipper. I sort of assumed it was like a calming aid for her


 I've not heard of that before, or ever seen a dog do it, i mean zeus will grab his toy when someone new comes in the house and were talking between ourselves but i just assumed thats him seeking some attention lol

Just out of interest does she play with the toy/slipper/tea towel or just hold it?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Reddo said:


> I've not heard of that before, or ever seen a dog do it, i mean zeus will grab his toy when someone new comes in the house and were talking between ourselves but i just assumed thats him seeking some attention lol
> 
> Just out of interest does she play with the toy/slipper/tea towel or just hold it?


No, she will just find the nearest thing to her to hold in her mouth (not play or offer to me to play with) & then do her best sit as she knows she will only get attention when she is calm.

She does it all the time


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Funny you should mention this but this is what I have tried with Roxy with varying degress of success, then there is the worry that the other dog may try & steal it!
> 
> Roxy always seems to have to have something in her mouth when she is excited or stressed. When I come in from work she has to quickly grab something & if a toy isn't at hand then she'll use the tea towel or a slipper. I sort of assumed it was like a calming aid for her


I think some dogs do develope a safety crutch for want of a better expression.
Chewing is a de-stresser for dogs, I assume thats why dogs with sep anx for example often chew up and destroy anything and everything in sight as its a release. Kobi certainly if stressed will really take it out on a heavy duty chew.
His other thing in stressful situations is to dig, manic digging and scratching if not outside he will do it on the carpet.

reading something once about Collies they seem to have to do something with their mouths in certain situations too, either vocalising or chewing or shaking the daylights out of something. There is a collie near me and when stressed fireworks or thunder which he hates, he will pick up toys or if nothing available cushions and things and shake the living daylights out of them and growl. it certainly seems thinking back over GSDs Ive known they are certainly mouthy in one form or other be it vocalising or needing something to mouth.
Maybe excitement or stress is a trigger it certainly looks like it.

One thing that helped as a Reward and destraction at training was the Skineeze, they are good because they are easy to carry too. Ive put up a link if you want a look.
Skinneeez Stuffing Free Crazy Critters Dog Toys


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Reddo said:


> It is clever, zeus is the type to carry his ball every were anyway -and your right, its stopped him being vocal towards dogs he passes, hes too worried about dropping the ball haha,hes almost completly unresponsive now even without the ball  He carries it all the way to the field and then back home, drops it in front of the door
> He has a rope toy at home but im not sure he'd be as enthusiastic about lugging that around - its quite a big one! :biggrin: but then again he will carry the biggest stick he can find no matter how heavy, but thats different.. thats *sticks!*


Have you seen these, a lot of dogs seem to like them, and safer then a stick, in fact the guy thought them up and ended up marketing them only after his dog got a bad stick injury I believe. I think they come in different sizes and thesse may be good for carrying as well as play and certainly safer if they took to it, sticks have cause horrific injuries to some dogs.
Safestix


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Have you seen these, a lot of dogs seem to like them, and safer then a stick, in fact the guy thought them up and ended up marketing them only after his dog got a bad stick injury I believe. I think they come in different sizes and thesse may be good for carrying as well as play and certainly safer if they took to it, sticks have cause horrific injuries to some dogs.
> Safestix


This is a great idea! The reason why i started letting zeus bring his ball was because i didn't like the idea of him carrying sticks - even now i have to tell him to leave sticks alone that hes finds on his walks.. Thank you for sharing this , ill be sure to purchase one..infact i may just do that now!.. Very clever idea, and the fact they float is great too- zeus loves a swim! Thanks!


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Reddo said:


> This is a great idea! The reason why i started letting zeus bring his ball was because i didn't like the idea of him carrying sticks - even now i have to tell him to leave sticks alone that hes finds on his walks.. Thank you for sharing this , ill be sure to purchase one..infact i may just do that now!.. Very clever idea, and the fact they float is great too- zeus loves a swim! Thanks!


They do look good, havent got personal experience but have seen dogs with them and they seem to all like them. Dragons Den didnt apparently if you check the website Apparently they didnt like the Canny collar either the goy went on there with those too I read in an article.


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## Pupcakes (Jun 20, 2011)

newfiesmum said:


> If he has been passed around, of course he is going to be scared if you leave him. He has bad memories of his owners leaving and not coming back. I would not use any sort of correction on this behaviour; much better to take a few steps away and if he stay calm, even for only a few steps, give him praise and a treat. You can gradually increase the distance over time, but he is already scared and you are making him even more scared.
> 
> You must also remember that if you spray this thing where there are other dogs, you can frighten them and upset their training, because they are being corrected as well, and they may be doing nothing wrong. This was pointed out to me yesterday, actually, on this forum and it makes a lot of sense.
> 
> ...


This was the first thing I thought of when I read your post. Please dont leave your dog tied up outside, there are so many ****s out there would love to do some wicked things with our lovely members of the family. Maybe you could get someone to stand with him whilst you go inside shops etc and praise and treat him for being quiet? Then he will realise you being away for 10minutes wont be the end of the world and good things can happen.

There are also a lot of idiots who let their not so friendly dogs roam about off lead and I'd hate for your dog to be attacked by out on control dog.

xxx


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> They do look good, havent got personal experience but have seen dogs with them and they seem to all like them. Dragons Den didnt apparently if you check the website Apparently they didnt like the Canny collar either the goy went on there with those too I read in an article.


Those canny collars are good too i bought one last week


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Pupcakes said:


> This was the first thing I thought of when I read your post. Please dont leave your dog tied up outside, there are so many ****s out there would love to do some wicked things with our lovely members of the family. Maybe you could get someone to stand with him whilst you go inside shops etc and praise and treat him for being quiet? Then he will realise you being away for 10minutes wont be the end of the world and good things can happen.
> 
> There are also a lot of idiots who let their not so friendly dogs roam about off lead and I'd hate for your dog to be attacked by out on control dog.
> 
> xxx


Hey 

I do make sure zeus is almost always with someone, unfortunatly it didnt stop the barking having someone with him - but so far things are improving! Hes been good the last few days while carrying on with the training. 
I live in a very small village in the middle of the countryside and the shop i speak off has a dog tie area directly infront of the entrance and also is completly visable so i can keep an eye on him while in there, its not atall uncommon here for people to tie the dogs up and luckily were blessed with lots of cctv and nosey neighbours  Its very rare thing here for dog stealing, but your right and thank you for the concern  
x:thumbup1:


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Reddo said:


> Those canny collars are good too i bought one last week


I had one for Kobi when he used to do his loony tunes when out too, prior to that had a gentle leader they are good too or so Ive found.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> I had one for Kobi when he used to do his loony tunes when out too, prior to that had a gentle leader they are good too or so Ive found.


Luke uses a standard Halti on Shanti our rottweiler cross and it works a treat for him, i tried it on zeus and he wasnt having any of it, wouldnt stop trying to get it off and it really stressed him out - so took it off and never tried it again.. but for some reason i spotted the canny collar and had a feeling he'd be more comfortable with it and he was - doesnt mind it atall  Luckily i only need to use it on the way to the field - he gets excited and pulls abit on the way to the field but doesnt pull atall on the way back after his run


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Have you seen these, a lot of dogs seem to like them, and safer then a stick, in fact the guy thought them up and ended up marketing them only after his dog got a bad stick injury I believe. I think they come in different sizes and thesse may be good for carrying as well as play and certainly safer if they took to it, sticks have cause horrific injuries to some dogs.
> Safestix





Sled dog hotel said:


> They do look good, havent got personal experience but have seen dogs with them and they seem to all like them. Dragons Den didnt apparently if you check the website Apparently they didnt like the Canny collar either the goy went on there with those too I read in an article.


They are fab; Kilo loves his and went through a stage of carrying it everywhere with him!


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Dogless said:


> They are fab; Kilo loves his and went through a stage of carrying it everywhere with him!


In that case ill definatly be getting one  would you say theyd be hard to chew threw?


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Reddo said:


> Luke uses a standard Halti on Shanti our rottweiler cross and it works a treat for him, i tried it on zeus and he wasnt having any of it, wouldnt stop trying to get it off and it really stressed him out - so took it off and never tried it again.. but for some reason i spotted the canny collar and had a feeling he'd be more comfortable with it and he was - doesnt mind it atall  Luckily i only need to use it on the way to the field - he gets excited and pulls abit on the way to the field but doesnt pull atall on the way back after his run


Must admit I wasnt keen on the Halti I did originally get one. Then the Behaviourist suggested the Gentle Leader which is what she always used. Which made sense, with the Gentle Leader the nose band can be adjusted to get a perfect confortable fit as well as the neck strap. The Halti though you can only do a perfect adjustment on the neck strap. Although they come in a variety of sizes (like the others too) you cant actually adjust the nose band at all, so if its not an instant perfect comfortable perfect fit you are pretty stuffed. Thats why personally I think you see so may dogs struggling with them and not liking them, you cant always get them "right" The Gentle leader and the Canny is a so much better fit, so the dog is much happier all round.
A lot say they Dog Matic is good too, personally I cant say as I havent tried it.


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## Dogless (Feb 26, 2010)

Reddo said:


> In that case ill definatly be getting one  would you say theyd be hard to chew threw?


Yes; it has withstood Kilo's attentions!


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## sianrees1979 (Feb 27, 2009)

yep, tried it 

dai ignored it completely and carried on barking as did dinky


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## Malmum (Aug 1, 2010)

I have thought about using one for Bruce's incessant barking indoors but all the dogs would be roped in so I haven't done so. I had thought of using one for Flynn's fear aggression but worry it may scare him and escalate the situation, so again haven't used one. I used a similar thing in the car with Flynn when he went off at other dogs while I was driving, was a party trumpet and I tried blowing it hard when ever he went off. It worked for I would say three or four blasts then he knew what it was and ignored it! 

I would think anything that simple is not going to work, these hounds like us to pull out every trick in the book and takes years sometimes doing it before they let us win!

I too would never leave my dogs anywhere the gen pub could get their grimy little hands on them, they could steal them or a child could get bitten by them - you know how kids won't mind their own business where dogs are concerned. 

Where ever my dogs go, so do I and no one - *absolutely no one* touches them without my first saying so, if I'm not there how can I protect them?


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Must admit I wasnt keen on the Halti I did originally get one. Then the Behaviourist suggested the Gentle Leader which is what she always used. Which made sense, with the Gentle Leader the nose band can be adjusted to get a perfect confortable fit as well as the neck strap. The Halti though you can only do a perfect adjustment on the neck strap. Although they come in a variety of sizes (like the others too) you cant actually adjust the nose band at all, so if its not an instant perfect comfortable perfect fit you are pretty stuffed. Thats why personally I think you see so may dogs struggling with them and not liking them, you cant always get them "right" The Gentle leader and the Canny is a so much better fit, so the dog is much happier all round.
> A lot say they Dog Matic is good too, personally I cant say as I havent tried it.


Our new trainer has recommended the Gentle Leader to us reather than other headcollars so we will give that a go (just to add to my head collar collection!) but am sure Roxy will hate it as much as the others although becasue the nose strap is adjustable this may make a difference


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## Sled dog hotel (Aug 11, 2010)

Cleo38 said:


> Our new trainer has recommended the Gentle Leader to us reather than other headcollars so we will give that a go (just to add to my head collar collection!) but am sure Roxy will hate it as much as the others although becasue the nose strap is adjustable this may make a difference


Mine came with a safety attachment too that I liked so that even if they did manage to get the Head collar off you are still attached. I do like the Cannys as well though for comfort and safety.


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Mine came with a safety attachment too that I liked so that even if they did manage to get the Head collar off you are still attached. I do like the Cannys as well though for comfort and safety.


The thing i like about the canny collar is that zeus only pulls on the way out, not on the way back.. so all i have to do is lift the nose band off, gently pull the straps back that are attached to the lead and its like a simple collar again - brilliant!


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Sled dog hotel said:


> Mine came with a safety attachment too that I liked so that even if they did manage to get the Head collar off you are still attached. I do like the Cannys as well though for comfort and safety.


I have a canny collar but didn't get on with that - I have so many non pull harness & head collars I should donate the ones I don't use to the local rescue ... or I could keep them for dog no 3 

She was alot better with the gentle leader than I thought, she's not overly keen on head coallrs but didn;t make sucha fuss last night, I think the fact that she was surrounded by alot of other dogs took her mind off of it.

I was thinking last night about her whining & how she gets herself worked up. I used to think that the whining which increased & got louder & louder was a refelction of how she was feeling but now I think that the actual act of doing this makes her worse & she hypes herslf up.

Last night (no need to use the stones!) every time she started to whine I told her 'no' - quite firmly, then once she was quiet she got a stroke & a treat. She was so much better!

Although it was obviously very exciting for her & maybe even a bit stressful at times she was much more focussed & actually looked to me alot more. She was fascinated by the other dogs but not as obsessed as previously.

One task was to tether the dogs, walk away, wait for eye contact then return to reward. Roxy was great, she looked at me, then sat & I then rewarded her. No Mrs Nutcase lunging/barking/whining at all - amazing!


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## Reddo (Feb 16, 2012)

Cleo38 said:


> I have a canny collar but didn't get on with that - I have so many non pull harness & head collars I should donate the ones I don't use to the local rescue ... or I could keep them for dog no 3
> 
> She was alot better with the gentle leader than I thought, she's not overly keen on head coallrs but didn;t make sucha fuss last night, I think the fact that she was surrounded by alot of other dogs took her mind off of it.
> 
> ...


This is great news - I'm so pleased for you thats shes improving and that the training is coming along! :thumbup1: 
It does feel great when you see signs of improvement - Zeus also is continuing to improve with just the 'wait' command, this weekend will be the next step in training, we are going to bristol to see Lukes parents, they have 2 staffies - they all get along but we often take the Zeus, Shanti, Bodie and Cadeau to a park together to play, so it will be interesting to see if he keeps his concentration with so much else going on around him - fingers crossed for no barking!.. I'm so proud of him  And proud of roxy too! well done


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

Reddo said:


> This is great news - I'm so pleased for you thats shes improving and that the training is coming along! :thumbup1:
> It does feel great when you see signs of improvement - Zeus also is continuing to improve with just the 'wait' command, this weekend will be the next step in training, we are going to bristol to see Lukes parents, they have 2 staffies - they all get along but we often take the Zeus, Shanti, Bodie and Cadeau to a park together to play, so it will be interesting to see if he keeps his concentration with so much else going on around him - fingers crossed for no barking!.. I'm so proud of him  And proud of roxy too! well done


I think (in our case) it's stopping the whining before it escalates & becomes too OTT. before I used to try & use a distraction such as a treat or a toy but this didn't work despite being high value. A simple (but firm) NO has been enough to stop her & she will then look at me which is when I can then get her to focus more, it worked so well last night.

We have also been 'practising 'wait' with Roxy & she is doing really well at that as well, it is nice when you see improvements but I do need to work towards this with distractions although am pleased enough with her at the moment.

Hope you all have a lovely weekend


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

I have just recently bought this Pet Corrrector Spray and to be honest it is brillaint. My dog just turned 7 months and is going through the teenage spell of misbehaving and not knowing his place. 

His main issue was jumping up on everyone and everything from myself to my wife and any other person who visited our home. I think they do this to assert their authority over others. Regardless i have tried shouting at the dog, poking with my finger and ignoring him all of which just seemd to spur him on even more. 

Needless to say he does not jump up anymore because i used the Pet Corrector. It did what everything else couldnt do which was to teach the dog who is boss. Everytime i enter the house or room where my dog is present, he simply looks up at me and sits obediently. Thank you Pet Corrector - you have saved my clothes and sanity. And best of all i only had to spray it two to three times before he got the message.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> I have just recently bought this Pet Corrrector Spray and to be honest it is brillaint. My dog just turned 7 months and is going through the teenage spell of misbehaving and not knowing his place.
> 
> His main issue was jumping up on everyone and everything from myself to my wife and any other person who visited our home. I think they do this to assert their authority over others. Regardless i have tried shouting at the dog, poking with my finger and ignoring him all of which just seemd to spur him on even more.
> 
> Needless to say he does not jump up anymore because i used the Pet Corrector. It did what everything else couldnt do which was to teach the dog who is boss. Everytime i enter the house or room where my dog is present, he simply looks up at me and sits obediently. Thank you Pet Corrector - you have saved my clothes and sanity. And best of all i only had to spray it two to three times before he got the message.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> I have just recently bought this Pet Corrrector Spray and to be honest it is brillaint. My dog just turned 7 months and is going through the teenage spell of misbehaving and not knowing his place.
> 
> His main issue was jumping up on everyone and everything from myself to my wife and any other person who visited our home. I think they do this to assert their authority over others. Regardless i have tried shouting at the dog, poking with my finger and ignoring him all of which just seemd to spur him on even more.
> 
> Needless to say he does not jump up anymore because i used the Pet Corrector. It did what everything else couldnt do which was to teach the dog who is boss. Everytime i enter the house or room where my dog is present, he simply looks up at me and sits obediently. Thank you Pet Corrector - you have saved my clothes and sanity. And best of all i only had to spray it two to three times before he got the message.


With all the poking and shouting and spraying, I don't suppose it occurred to you to teach him a sit or down, which is a command that he can obey, get praised for and cannot jump up at the same time? That is what most people do to stop their dogs from jumping up.

Dogs do not jump up to assert their authority (what a bizarre idea) they jump up because they are excited to see people.

I am very pleased you are happy with the way you have frightened your dog so that he sees you and sits down, because he scared of what you are likely to do. Personally, I prefer my dogs to be excited to see me when I come in, but they do not jump up because they have been taught not to from an early age with a simple down command.

When walking my dogs the other week with a group of people one of them got out her pet corrector spray to stop her dog from scrounging for treats - I turned back with mine and told her that thing was not coming anywhere near my dogs. Now she doesn't speak to me, but it was worth it.


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## blitzens mum (Jul 15, 2012)

i use a small metal tin filled with stones, i shake it behind my dog just before he starts any unwanted behaviuor and it makes him stop and look at me, it works really well


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

blitzens mum said:


> i use a small metal tin filled with stones, i shake it behind my dog just before he starts any unwanted behaviuor and it makes him stop and look at me, it works really well


Anything that is designed to frighten the dog is just as bad.


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## Milliepoochie (Feb 13, 2011)

Reddo said:


> In that case ill definatly be getting one  would you say theyd be hard to chew threw?


Millie has one and loooooves it. It gets thorn around like 'road kill' as hubby says 

Obs not chew proof but very tough.

If Millie looks to settle down for a chew a swift 'uh hu' and I take it from her. Generally dogs will only chew a toy if you give them the chance - With supervised play it shouldnt be a problem.


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## Cleo38 (Jan 22, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> Anything that is designed to frighten the dog is just as bad.


Sorry but I would disagree. This is used as an aversive but for some dogs, in some stuations this can be an effective tool. Whislt i do accept that people should be aware of the negative association that can be caused by aversives I do not believe they will always be 'bad' for the dog.

I am not advocating that people use one as a 'cure all' but this did work for Roxy. I spent a year working with a behaviourist (COAPE qualified) & yet we could not overcome Roxy kicking off when another dog got to a certain distance. The longer this went on the more stress it caused the both of us.

I used the bottle of stones once (well, actually the trainer I saw did) & it was incredibly effective. we used it once & that was all that was needed, since then we have been able to attend 'normal' dog training classes, we also go to agility classes, are doing WT training & are planning on attending a 4d course next year - I never thought I would ever be able to do any of these things at one point.

She has not been phased by the noise at all & we walk alongside bird scarers (in the fields) daily which never bother her at all ..... they just make me jump!


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

Be careful, I suspect along with other methods E has been subjected to this stuff, now she will not allow anyone to spray anything on her or near here. 

I would never use anything like this because I just don't believe these training methods are necessary. But personal opinions aside, it is really difficult when you have a dog who is scared of sprays and you never know when you might need a spray as a veterinary treatment for something. 

As an owner of a very stubborn breed I have also heard of owners using the spray collars. One owner used it so much it stopped working and she was still left with the behaviour problem.


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## Lexiedhb (Jun 9, 2011)

Surely the really easy solution to this is to NOT tie your dog up outside a shop!! They could be stolen, poked in the eye by a kid- and so bite- get accidentally stepped on- so bite someone- get loose run into the road and cause an accident- or run off never to be seen again-why on earth would you risk it?


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

_With all the poking and shouting and spraying, I don't suppose it occurred to you to teach him a sit or down, which is a command that he can obey, get praised for and cannot jump up at the same time? That is what most people do to stop their dogs from jumping up.

Dogs do not jump up to assert their authority (what a bizarre idea) they jump up because they are excited to see people.

I am very pleased you are happy with the way you have frightened your dog so that he sees you and sits down, because he scared of what you are likely to do. Personally, I prefer my dogs to be excited to see me when I come in, but they do not jump up because they have been taught not to from an early age with a simple down command.

When walking my dogs the other week with a group of people one of them got out her pet corrector spray to stop her dog from scrounging for treats - I turned back with mine and told her that thing was not coming anywhere near my dogs. Now she doesn't speak to me, but it was worth it._

I have to strongly disagree with you, my dog does not fear me one bit. He is aware that good behaviour gets attention and bad behaviour gets the spray. There is a fine line between treating your dog as a valued pet and treating your dog as a minature human in a furry coat and i think you and some others on this site have certainly passed that line. My dog is a dog believe it or not and knows his place. Obviously we are talking about two different types of dog here as well.....my dog was seriously badly behaved and had zero manners due to being spoiled by members of the family. The magic word sit that you talk about just simply didnt cut it. So you need to open your mind that not all dogs are the same and some require different approachs. :001_tongue:


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> _With all the poking and shouting and spraying, I don't suppose it occurred to you to teach him a sit or down, which is a command that he can obey, get praised for and cannot jump up at the same time? That is what most people do to stop their dogs from jumping up.
> 
> Dogs do not jump up to assert their authority (what a bizarre idea) they jump up because they are excited to see people.
> 
> ...


No, your dog was seriously badly behaved because you didn't bother training him. And from the sounds of it you still haven't bothered.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> _With all the poking and shouting and spraying, I don't suppose it occurred to you to teach him a sit or down, which is a command that he can obey, get praised for and cannot jump up at the same time? That is what most people do to stop their dogs from jumping up.
> 
> Dogs do not jump up to assert their authority (what a bizarre idea) they jump up because they are excited to see people.
> 
> ...


Your dog was a puppy, full of joy and excitement and you have curbed that excitement with an aversive spray which he obviously does not like. My dogs are completely spoilt, but they still don't have any horrible habits. They are well trained because they want to please, not because they are afraid of what will happen if they don't. Your dog had zero manners because no one had bothered to teach him any.

I have had a variety of dogs over the years, and they all respond well to teaching and praise.


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacsmckilly 
With all the poking and shouting and spraying, I don't suppose it occurred to you to teach him a sit or down, which is a command that he can obey, get praised for and cannot jump up at the same time? That is what most people do to stop their dogs from jumping up.

Dogs do not jump up to assert their authority (what a bizarre idea) they jump up because they are excited to see people.

I am very pleased you are happy with the way you have frightened your dog so that he sees you and sits down, because he scared of what you are likely to do. Personally, I prefer my dogs to be excited to see me when I come in, but they do not jump up because they have been taught not to from an early age with a simple down command.

When walking my dogs the other week with a group of people one of them got out her pet corrector spray to stop her dog from scrounging for treats - I turned back with mine and told her that thing was not coming anywhere near my dogs. Now she doesn't speak to me, but it was worth it.

I have to strongly disagree with you, my dog does not fear me one bit. He is aware that good behaviour gets attention and bad behaviour gets the spray. There is a fine line between treating your dog as a valued pet and treating your dog as a minature human in a furry coat and i think you and some others on this site have certainly passed that line. My dog is a dog believe it or not and knows his place. Obviously we are talking about two different types of dog here as well.....my dog was seriously badly behaved and had zero manners due to being spoiled by members of the family. The magic word sit that you talk about just simply didnt cut it. So you need to open your mind that not all dogs are the same and some require different approachs. 


No, your dog was seriously badly behaved because you didn't bother training him. And from the sounds of it you still haven't bothered. 

:hand:

Dont waste your time with smug remarks and arrogant statements because like it or not your opinion may not necessarily be correct. Your obviously annoyed that my £2.99 correction spray has completely changed my badly behaved dog into a perfectly well behaving and mannerly companion and no doubt this bugs you as you have spent countless of pounds on obedience classes and theory books not to mention time and enery.  We now have constant comments from family and friends about how wonderful he is so you can take your arrogance and take a long walk of a short plank :smile5:


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by cacsmckilly
> With all the poking and shouting and spraying, I don't suppose it occurred to you to teach him a sit or down, which is a command that he can obey, get praised for and cannot jump up at the same time? That is what most people do to stop their dogs from jumping up.
> 
> ...


:lol: What a joke. You haven't taught your dog to do anything, spraying a dog and stopping a behaviour teaching NOTHING except to sometimes stop the behaviour they are doing. It's not useful, it's not training and thats not 'an opinion'. You show a dog what to do, not what NOT to do. Or do you on a driving lesson just shout NO everytime a student does something wrong instead of teaching them that they should actually do?

You must seriously be a troll if you think you can come on here and lecture this forum about its members without having the faintest clue yourself. :lol:


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

*You must seriously be a troll if you think you can come on here and lecture this forum about its members without having the faintest clue yourself. *

Well that comment again just sums you up as a person - arrogant and of low class. I will not stoop so low as to name call but you obviously have no problems with it. I have lectured no one, but put forward the opinion that the correction spray is a good tool and you have taken issue with that. Guess what, maybe your not right. Oh my god i know that must be hard to take for a person with as much arrogance as you but **** happens my friend. I reward the dog when it does right and correct him when he is wrong. The spray comes out for serious misdeameanors and works a treat. Grow up and widen horizons a bit. I suggest some travel to experience different cultures and practices and it might open you up to other peoples suggestions in the future :blush:


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> *You must seriously be a troll if you think you can come on here and lecture this forum about its members without having the faintest clue yourself. *
> 
> Well that comment again just sums you up as a person - arrogant and of low class. I will not stoop so low as to name call but you obviously have no problems with it. I have lectured no one, but put forward the opinion that the correction spray is a good tool and you have taken issue with that. Guess what, maybe your not right. Oh my god i know that must be hard to take for a person with as much arrogance as you but **** happens my friend. I reward the dog when it does right and correct him when he is wrong. The spray comes out for serious misdeameanors and works a treat. Grow up and widen horizons a bit. I suggest some travel to experience different cultures and practices and it might open you up to other peoples suggestions in the future :blush:


:lol: Talking of arrogance how would you know how much a stranger has travelled exactly?

Please do come back and talk about sprays what you have an ACTUAL problem as opposed to a perfectly ordinary behaviour. God help us all if jumping up (i.e. saying hello!) is a 'serious misdeameanor' in your household, heaven knows how you'd deal with an actual problem dog. Don't you have any idea how to train instead?


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

Talking of arrogance how would you know how much a stranger has travelled exactly? 

Please do come back and talk about sprays what you have an ACTUAL problem as opposed to a perfectly ordinary behaviour. God help us all if jumping up (i.e. saying hello!) is a 'serious misdeameanor' in your household, heaven knows how you'd deal with an actual problem dog. Don't you have any idea how to train instead?
Like 

Here its a waste of time talking to you, your dog is probably sitting at your dinner table now with his own plate and slippers. Go and attend him as he probably is your boss at this stage


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## kate_7590 (Feb 28, 2009)

I always have a can in the house. Only used to break up potential fights. (Simba used to flip without warning with Flint and my parents dog Mickey, so this stuff has been invaluable for us) I know alot wouldnt agree with us using it but I think for the correct reasons it is a good thing...


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> Quote:
> 
> Dont waste your time with smug remarks and arrogant statements because like it or not your opinion may not necessarily be correct. *Your obviously annoyed that my £2.99 correction spray has completely changed my badly behaved dog into a perfectly well behaving and mannerly companion and no doubt this bugs you as you have spent countless of pounds on obedience classes and theory books not to mention time and enery.  *We now have constant comments from family and friends about how wonderful he is so you can take your arrogance and take a long walk of a short plank :smile5:


No, I am annoyed that you are yet another example of someone who doesn't have a clue and will not listen to those who have, being allowed to own a dog. I have spent not one single penny on training my dogs - I have never needed to because common sense prevails. I have dogs because I love dogs, I love the companionship they give, and I love the excited way they greet me. I did not have dogs to make sure they know their place.

My dogs were taught sit and down, it doesn't take long but it does take patience and consistency. Having taught those there is no need for anything else when it comes to teach them not to jump up. Of course you do have to do more than just yell sit at a puppy who has never been taught what the word means.

I think you have a bit of a nerve calling another member "low class" when all you can seem to do is paraphrase childish comments. "Take a long run off a short pier" I haven't heard that since I was in primary school.



Phoolf said:


> :lol: Talking of arrogance how would you know how much a stranger has travelled exactly?
> 
> Please do come back and talk about sprays what you have an ACTUAL problem as opposed to a perfectly ordinary behaviour. God help us all if jumping up (i.e. saying hello!) is a 'serious misdeameanor' in your household, heaven knows how you'd deal with an actual problem dog. Don't you have any idea how to train instead?


I think it is pretty obvious what someone like this would do with a dog with a real problem, don't you?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> Talking of arrogance how would you know how much a stranger has travelled exactly?
> 
> Please do come back and talk about sprays what you have an ACTUAL problem as opposed to a perfectly ordinary behaviour. God help us all if jumping up (i.e. saying hello!) is a 'serious misdeameanor' in your household, heaven knows how you'd deal with an actual problem dog. Don't you have any idea how to train instead?
> Like
> ...


What a shame you're so insecure you see a power struggle when communication between two very compatible species would suffice.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

cacsmckilly said:


> *The spray comes out for serious misdeameanors and works a treat. *


*

What happens if you don't have the spray handy when your dog misbehaves in a way you think warrants it? Genuine question, I've known people to go get the spray (or newspaper, or slipper or whatever they use) and then come back and punish the dog with it which is of course absolutely useless.*


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> I have to strongly disagree with you, my dog does not fear me one bit. He is aware that good behaviour gets attention and bad behaviour gets the spray.


 So he behaves in way that avoid getting sprayed yes? So can I deduce from that that he at the very least strongly dislikes the spray if not out and out fears it?
Do you not have to hold the spray in order to activate it? (I dont know, I dont use it.) If you are holding the spray when you activate it, do you not think the dog will associate the spray with you?
Might be interesting to see his reaction to the bottle sitting on the counter as opposed to you holding the bottle. I think your answer lies there.



cacsmckilly said:


> My dog is a dog believe it or not and knows his place.


Well, youve got me there. My dogs arent really dogs. Theyre furry leprechauns that walk on 4 legs and poop rainbows and fairies.
Seriously? Do you think dogs dont know theyre dogs and we have to remind them of that?? I credit my dogs with a lot, including being able to know what species they are!
Did you really think your dog was jumping on you to show his authority over you??


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

Good luck guys, ive said my piece here

The spray works for me so i cant not promote its use. Of course it should only be used to try and stamp out one problem at a time and for us it was the jumping up despite orders to sit etc. For me jumping up is not mannerly, firstly it can knock over a small child since my dog is a large breed Ratweiler. 
When a dog jumps up on you and guests he is stamping his authority over you and others, letting you know he can do as he pleases. As far as im concerned its enough for a dog to sit and wag his tail as a greeting not climb all over you. I used the spray twice in total and he hasnt jumped up again, all it is is a wee blast of air. Immediatley after the spray was used, the dog is told to sit and then rewarded so he knows the difference in good and unwanted behaviour.

Dog up-bringing is a vast area of thought and ideas similar to child rearing. We are all bound to have different ideas. 

In reference to the question as to what i would do if the dog acts up and i dont have the spray? Well he hasnt jumped up on anyone in 3 months so its safe to say he wont do it anytime soon. As soon as he heard the spray he stopped it, then all i needed to do was postively enforce his good behaviour - Easy this dog training business!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

What's a Ratweiler?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> What's a Ratweiler?


Well, it is obviously a special breed of dog who thinks he is in charge and jumps up to assert his authority over humans. I expect he dominates everything else as well, like the light, the water bowl, the front door............you get the picture.

These sprays have been known to completely lose their affect once the dog gets used to them anyway, so one does wonder what is going to be next. I expect one of those barbaric collars that are banned in Wales, since he is only a dog and has to know his place.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Well, it is obviously a special breed of dog who thinks he is in charge and jumps up to assert his authority over humans. I expect he dominates everything else as well, like the light, the water bowl, the front door............you get the picture.
> 
> These sprays have been known to completely lose their affect once the dog gets used to them anyway, so one does wonder what is going to be next. I expect one of those barbaric collars that are banned in Wales, since he is only a dog and has to know his place.


So if jumping up is asserting authority, how do dogs naturally want to say hello?


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

When Clover was younger, I did use the corrector spray once. But then I came to see it wasn't solving the issue

Yes it stopped her barking temporally, but it didn't solve the reason why she was barking (fear) . So I ditched the spray and have been working on better and longer lasting ways to stop her barking.


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## GingerRogers (Sep 13, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Do you not have to hold the spray in order to activate it? (I dont know, I dont use it.) If you are holding the spray when you activate it, do you not think the dog will associate the spray with you?
> Might be interesting to see his reaction to the bottle sitting on the counter as opposed to you holding the bottle. I think your answer lies there.


I am ashamed to say I tried the pet corrector spray when we first got Ginge, after a water spray stopped working, all based on advice of people I know/expert dog trainers (everyones and expert don't ya know ) it didn't work, she didn't like it and she bit me in an attempt to get at the spray. Needless to say it wasn't used again, instead I came on here and got a much needed wake up call and some excellent advice, unfortunately my experiment cost me £6.99  I should have paid less  perhaps I too could have a dog thats hates the spray enough to sit even though I wouldn't have any fingers .


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> So if jumping up is asserting authority, how do dogs naturally want to say hello?


Saying hello is a behaviour that must be stopped at all costs - they are dogs and have to know their place.:nonod:


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

Re: Pet Corrector Spray - have u used it?? 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's a Ratweiler?


Is that all you can pick out from my argument? A spelling mistake....for such a wordsmith like yourself i expected more. Your take on the english language does limit your ability to argue without the need for name calling and quick arrogant jibes. Your like a child who has thrown his dummy out...


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> Re: Pet Corrector Spray - have u used it??
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Oh no dear, there's far too much to pick out of your post but to most of us it was far too obvious to disect. A dog jumping on you is not asserting authority anymore than a baby reaching out with its hands is trying to tame you into buying it a nicer pram, it's a means of communication and if you don't like it you train it to do something else, but please don't be under the false misapprehension that any of it has to do with dominance.


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

Here's another pet corrector spray fan's thread..... Oh no my mistake, by page 5 it had already stopped working.

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/196301-pet-corrector-god-send-5.html


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

newfiesmum said:


> they are dogs and have to know their place.:


My girls know there place.. loved and valued family members


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Having had a similar experience to Ginge only with a water spray I haven't even tried pet correctors. I've never seen any reason to to be honest.

I don't believe for one moment that my dog is asserting his authority by jumping up. He wants to lick my face and since I'm so much higher up than he is the only way he can do it is to jump up. It's behaviour I discourage but teaching him that sitting gets him attention while jumping up makes me leave has done the trick. With me anyway, with those who encourage him to jump up he still jumps up but I'm not going to punish him for their stupidity.

Personally I'm more of a fan of teaching the dog what I DO want than simply punishing what I DON'T want. If I just punish jumping up it still leaves my dog god only knows how many things he could do instead of jump up and most of them wouldn't be things I want him doing.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> Re: Pet Corrector Spray - have u used it??
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


What argument? I feel you must be a wind up since you cannot even spell the name of your own dog's breed, but just in case you are not I will continue. You are far too full of yourself to listen to more experienced people who know dogs, but for anyone else who may stumble upon this it must be done.

You have a rottweiller, and extremely powerful dog; is there some reason you have waited until he is seven months old and quite a size before deciding to teach him not to jump up? My newfies were taught that from the age of eight weeks.

Your spray will stop working, they always do having scared the dog of strange noises and probably of whoever is holding the spray as well. Let's see how smug you are then, shall we?


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2012)

GingerRogers said:


> I am ashamed to say I tried the pet corrector spray when we first got Ginge, after a water spray stopped working, all based on advice of people I know/expert dog trainers (everyones and expert don't ya know ) it didn't work, she didn't like it and *she bit me in an attempt to get at the spray*. Needless to say it wasn't used again, instead I came on here and got a much needed wake up call and some excellent advice, unfortunately my experiment cost me £6.99  I should have paid less  perhaps I too could have a dog thats hates the spray enough to sit even though I wouldn't have any fingers .


And people say positive trainers think dogs are dumb.... 

Glad you got things sorted Ginger


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ouesi said:


> And people say positive trainers think dogs are dumb....
> 
> Glad you got things sorted Ginger


How can anyone think a dog is dumb when they honestly believe that a puppy is jumping up to assert his authority? I have honestly never heard such a stupid idea in all my life. I think he must belong to the flat earth society you were talking about before. Doh!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> How can anyone think a dog is dumb when they honestly believe that a puppy is jumping up to assert his authority? I have honestly never heard such a stupid idea in all my life. I think he must belong to the flat earth society you were talking about before. Doh!


Not as stupid as the folks who follow on from this line of thinking and start trying to hump their dogs to 'show them who's boss' :lol: :lol:


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

_Oh no dear, there's far too much to pick out of your post but to most of us it was far too obvious to disect. A dog jumping on you is not asserting authority anymore than a baby reaching out with its hands is trying to tame you into buying it a nicer pram, it's a means of communication and if you don't like it you train it to do something else, but please don't be under the false misapprehension that any of it has to do with dominance._

How to Stop Dog Jumping on Guests

By Cesar Millan

How can you tell if your dog is the pack leader? It's simple: if your dog jumps on you when you arrive home, she is the pack leader.

End of!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> _Oh no dear, there's far too much to pick out of your post but to most of us it was far too obvious to disect. A dog jumping on you is not asserting authority anymore than a baby reaching out with its hands is trying to tame you into buying it a nicer pram, it's a means of communication and if you don't like it you train it to do something else, but please don't be under the false misapprehension that any of it has to do with dominance._
> 
> How to Stop Dog Jumping on Guests
> 
> ...


Yeah, quoting Cesar Millan says it all. End of indeed! :lol: I hope for your dogs sake you get a clue soon.


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

Ha ha, now your slagging off The Dog Whisperer himself, is anyone safe from your vile tongue? I would put my trust in Cesar than you any day and your jumped up self Persona!


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

:nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod:

Oh dear oh dear who else was waiting for the great white toothed one to rear his blinding choppers.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

moonviolet said:


> :nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod:
> 
> Oh dear oh dear who else was waiting for the great white toothed one to hear his blinding choppers.


Well it was bound to happen  I can't wait for the day people stop thinking that bloke has the slightest clue what he's on about.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Whoops! I can see someone won't be staying around long on here! 

CM's way of training is outmoded and ill informed. He gets bitten by the dogs he tries to train as he does not understand what he is doing. Not long ago a dog had to be put down as someone tried to follow his methods and was bitten very badly.

The corrrect way to train is to encourage the behaviours you want not punish those you don't My dog used to jump up at me when I got home - now she doesn't. Simply because she learned she got ignored when she jumped up, and fussed when all four feet were on the floor. 

If you stick around you will learn something and have a positive relationship with your dog.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

BessieDog said:


> Whoops! I can see someone won't be staying around long on here!
> 
> CM's way of training is outmoded and ill informed. He gets bitten by the dogs he tries to train as he does not understand what he is doing. Not long ago a dog had to be put down as someone tried to follow his methods and was bitten very badly.
> 
> ...


You missed out the bit where Cesar Millan isn't even a dog trainer! He's a TV presenter.

Poor guy. :lol:


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> You missed out the bit where Cesar Millan isn't even a dog trainer! He's a TV presenter.
> 
> Poor guy. :lol:


I did, sorry!


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> Not as stupid as the folks who follow on from this line of thinking and start trying to hump their dogs to 'show them who's boss' :lol: :lol:


Tell me that's a joke...right? It doesn't really happen...does it? :laugh:

Trouble with sprays and other "corrective" measures which startle the dog, aside from the obvious which has been covered here, is that you can't really be sure what you are teaching the dog...if you used it to eg. stop the dog from charging up to strangers, the dog is quite likely to internalise events as "strangers cause nasty things to happen unexpectedly". Not what I'd want my dogs to learn :nonod:


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

myshkin said:


> Tell me that's a joke...right? It doesn't really happen...does it? :laugh:
> 
> Trouble with sprays and other "corrective" measures which startle the dog, aside from the obvious which has been covered here, is that you can't really be sure what you are teaching the dog...if you used it to eg. stop the dog from charging up to strangers, the dog is quite likely to internalise events as "strangers cause nasty things to happen unexpectedly". Not what I'd want my dogs to learn :nonod:


That seriously happens.


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## BessieDog (May 16, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> That seriously happens.


That must make walks in the park interesting!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> Not as stupid as the folks who follow on from this line of thinking and start trying to hump their dogs to 'show them who's boss' :lol: :lol:


You do know some strange people!



cacsmckilly said:


> _Oh no dear, there's far too much to pick out of your post but to most of us it was far too obvious to disect. A dog jumping on you is not asserting authority anymore than a baby reaching out with its hands is trying to tame you into buying it a nicer pram, it's a means of communication and if you don't like it you train it to do something else, but please don't be under the false misapprehension that any of it has to do with dominance._
> 
> How to Stop Dog Jumping on Guests
> 
> ...


Dogs do not live in packs and have no leader. Cesar Millan is not a dog trainer, or dog psychologist, he is a sweeper upper in a grooming parlour who managed to fool a few idiotic and brain dead celebrities into paying him lots of money to bully their poor dogs.



cacsmckilly said:


> Ha ha, now your slagging off The Dog Whisperer himself, is anyone safe from your vile tongue? I would put my trust in Cesar than you any day and your jumped up self Persona!


The Dog Whisperer himself? You mean the man who has been banned in Italy, who all the recognised animal welfare society and behaviourial institutions have discredited? That Dog Whisperer?

I'm afraid you won't get far quoting the Dog Abuser on this forum. Obvious where you get your daft ideas from

If you wish to quote somebody's post, just click on the quote button at the bottom. Simple really.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> That seriously happens.


Oh sweet jebus! Next time I see the big chocolate lab that Gruff hates because he always try to hump him, I'll have to suggest it to the owner :laugh:

(He's not trying to dominate anyone, he's just horny!)


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## tinaK (Jun 12, 2010)

Cesar Millan? isn't he the guy who understands dog behavior so well that he got bitten quite badly quite recently?


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> You do know some strange people!


Ooh god I don't know these people personally. If I did I might be dead from laughter, but I have heard anecdotally of people who think humping is to dominate and so they hump the dog to dominate them. :lol::lol:


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

I used to use this, but only used it twice through fear of making Indie make the wrong associations. She used to be a nightmare to walk on lead and would jump up at me chewing her lead and savaging my arm. I used it once during this time, which did stop her, but only that once as I learned a much more effective way to train her which was to ignore her jumping and reward her for walking nicely. I didnt want her to associate nasty sounds to the wrong things e.g people walking past or other dogs or cars etc.

The second time I used it was to stop her jumping up at people but this time I noticed she was scared of the sound which immediately stopped me from using it as I didnt want her to learn that people coming to the door resulted in being frightened so I am still currently teaching her that jumping up is ignored and sitting down calmly is what gets her fuss and rewards.

The trouble is, when a dog is in the 'zone' its very hard to get through to them so you really have to persevere them and try and get their attention with food or a toy. With Indie being such a big excitable dog it does take a lot of time and calming but it does work trust me!


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cloversmum said:


> Cesar Millan? isn't he the guy who understands dog behavior so well that he got bitten quite badly quite recently?


He has been bitten no end of times to my knowledge. No one seriously calls themselves a dog trainer would get bitten at all because they would see it coming, which he seems quite incapable of doing. Even with that poor little labrador, Holly, he said he didn't see it coming but everyone watching did.


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

I think anyone who comes across this site will see through all the bull **** spouted by the majority of wing nuts on here and see that there is a place for Correction Spray.

I will continue to use it and recomend it to all those i meet and come across. At my weekly dog training class i explain to my members about rewarding positive behaviour and the need to correct unwanted behaviour. If you let your dog away with murder you will not be the pack leader .... calmness and assertiveness along with the odd wee spray now and again works wonders.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> I think anyone who comes across this site will see through all the bull **** spouted by the majority of wing nuts on here and see that there is a place for Correction Spray.
> 
> I will continue to use it and recomend it to all those i meet and come across. At my weekly dog training class i explain to my members about rewarding positive behaviour and the need to correct unwanted behaviour. If you let your dog away with murder you will not be the pack leader .... calmness and assertiveness along with the odd wee spray now and again works wonders.


:lol:

Yeah, alright then. You might want to get your knowledge levels on dog behaviour a bit more up to date if you want to keep your 'members', they'll soon think you're a dinosaur when they get up to speed. 

I went to a training class with a woman who thought pack leader stuff was still hip, I recommended some dog books to a few of the people there and none of them came back after learning what a crock of shite the 'trainer' was spouting. Just something to think about.


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

I think he`s just having a laugh, yes? 
No proper dog trainer would publicise the fact he has to resort to them.


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

_Yeah, alright then. You might want to get your knowledge levels on dog behaviour a bit more up to date if you want to keep your 'members', they'll soon think you're a dinosaur when they get up to speed. _

Oh right your part of this new Politically correct crowd that has emerged recently as in no spanking or no Irish Jokes etc, etc. What ever happened a good old kick up the backside eh? Its all touchy, feely crap now isnt it...... bloody bunch of hippies


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> I think he`s just having a laugh, yes?
> No proper dog trainer would publicise the fact he has to resort to them.


I wouldn't be surprised.

Thankfully if you don't keep up in industries you get left behind


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2012)

cacsmckilly, the dog whisperer himself gets bitten an awful lot for one. 
His methods have been discredited by just about every professional dog group out there including the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists, and the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior. 

A pet corrector spray really isn't the end of the world in the greater scheme of things, but there are better ways and many on here have found them and are more than happy to share if you care to expand your views a bit 

Oh, and no, my kids have never been spanked and yes, I am very much a wanna be hippy  Peace & Love bro...


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> _Yeah, alright then. You might want to get your knowledge levels on dog behaviour a bit more up to date if you want to keep your 'members', they'll soon think you're a dinosaur when they get up to speed. _
> 
> Oh right your part of this new Politically correct crowd that has emerged recently as in no spanking or no Irish Jokes etc, etc. What ever happened a good old kick up the backside eh? Its all touchy, feely crap now isnt it...... bloody bunch of hippies


:lol:

What a joke. I hope animal abuse makes you feel manly.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> I think anyone who comes across this site will see through all the bull **** spouted by the majority of wing nuts on here and see that there is a place for Correction Spray.
> 
> I will continue to use it and recomend it to all those i meet and come across. At my weekly dog training class i explain to my members about rewarding positive behaviour and the need to correct unwanted behaviour. If you let your dog away with murder you will not be the pack leader .... calmness and assertiveness along with the odd wee spray now and again works wonders.


Ah, so you fancy yourself as a dog trainer, do you? What are your qualifications please? Or are you like the majority who think that by owning the complete collection of DVDs of the Dog Abuser series you can call yourself a dog trainer? The pack leader theory not only related to wolves, not dogs, but was discredited many years ago by the very person who did the research and came up with the crap in the first place.

Bullies still cling to it because they are control freaks and it suits their personalities.

I am still waiting to know why you waited seven months to teach a dog not to jump up, perhaps like your hero you had no idea how until you came here and found out about teaching a sit or down first. Oh, but that won't work because you don't know how to teach that either, do you? Again, just like your hero.

Anyone coming across this site will find a lot of properly qualified animal behaviourists who really know what they are talking about, so please go away. You are beginning to irritate me, a bit like turning off the light at night and finding a buzzing fly in your room.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

cacsmckilly said:


> I think anyone who comes across this site will see through all the bull **** spouted by the majority of wing nuts on here and see that there is a place for Correction Spray.
> 
> I will continue to use it and recomend it to all those i meet and come across. At my weekly dog training class i explain to my members about rewarding positive behaviour and the need to correct unwanted behaviour. If you let your dog away with murder you will not be the pack leader .... calmness and assertiveness along with the odd wee spray now and again works wonders.


My dog doesn't get away with murder. Unwanted behaviour has consequences (and what they are depends on the behaviour and why he's doing it) and behaviour I do want gets rewarded.

If you're recommending it to people then maybe you should be aware that not all dogs will just passively accept a correction like this. Some will attack the source of the noise, others will become fearful of anything that sounds like it, others will associate it with whatever was in the vicinity at the time and not necessarily their behaviour.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> I think he`s just having a laugh, yes?
> No proper dog trainer would publicise the fact he has to resort to them.


You'd be surprised.



cacsmckilly said:


> _Yeah, alright then. You might want to get your knowledge levels on dog behaviour a bit more up to date if you want to keep your 'members', they'll soon think you're a dinosaur when they get up to speed. _
> 
> Oh right your part of this new Politically correct crowd that has emerged recently as in no spanking or no Irish Jokes etc, etc. What ever happened a good old kick up the backside eh? Its all touchy, feely crap now isnt it...... bloody bunch of hippies


If you really want a good old kick up the backside, then I would be more than happy to oblige.


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

It's amazing to watch someone who as a result of knowing so little on a subject, doesn't even realise that everything they are saying just demonstrates how ignorant on the topic they actually are. 

"The dog whisperer himself"   Yes Phoolf, how could you possible insult the god like man that is the dog whisperer? You should be ashamed of yourself, ashamed I tell you!


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> _Yeah, alright then. You might want to get your knowledge levels on dog behaviour a bit more up to date if you want to keep your 'members', they'll soon think you're a dinosaur when they get up to speed. _
> 
> Oh right your part of this new Politically correct crowd that has emerged recently as in no spanking or no Irish Jokes etc, etc. What ever happened a good old kick up the backside eh? Its all touchy, feely crap now isnt it...... bloody bunch of hippies


How dare you! You have deeply offended not only my Irish heritage but also my lentil-weaving lifestyle. Also, some of us like to indulge in backside kicking amongst consenting adults and do not expect to be judged for it!

:laugh:

WTF does PC even mean? It is only ever used by people when they want to justify being obnoxious little gobshites as far as I can see


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Alice Childress said:


> It's amazing to watch someone who as a result of knowing so little on a subject, doesn't even realise that everything they are saying just demonstrates how ignorant on the topic they actually are.
> 
> "The dog whisperer himself"   Yes Phoolf, how could you possible insult the god like man that is the dog whisperer? You should be ashamed of yourself, ashamed I tell you!


I really must rethink this whole dog thing. This new poster has completely turned my worldview on it's head and I shall now become a disciple of the one and only TV Dog Abuser!!! All bow down to the man with scarred up hands. My dog is not happy to see me, she just wants to show me who's boss when I get in the door!

On second thoughts I'll keep my trusting bond with canines and my dainty, pretty hands wound free.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

myshkin said:


> How dare you! You have deeply offended not only my Irish heritage but also my lentil-weaving lifestyle. Also, some of us like to indulge in backside kicking amongst consenting adults and do not expect to be judged for it!
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> WTF does PC even mean? It is only ever used by people when they want to justify being obnoxious little gobshites as far as I can see


I don't know about you but I'm about to go off and do some airy fairy basket weaving meditative class.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Oh dear, I'm affraid I nearly wet myself laughing when this unfortunate OP popped up with "CM say It Is So - so end of!" !!!

Diving into a lions den wearing a steak dress, fabulous.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

_*What a joke. I hope animal abuse makes you feel manly. *_

So you call correction spray animal abuse? Lol

You are a good laugh, have you been smoking too much pot? As a qualified trainer of dogs and as a pack leader of dogs, i know for a fact that the proper use of correction spray does not hinder a dogs development in the slightest.

What i am talking about is dog obedience, what you guys seem to be talking about is pet ownership. The difference here being is that i can walk through the city with my dog, without a lead and where the obstacles include other dogs, other people, traffic and noise. And not once would my dog leave my side, not once. You guys are just talking about having a happy wee pet who jumps all over you in the park. I think we are talking from two different levels, mine being an advanced one!


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

And there's nothing wrong with being politically correct anyway - it's called being a basically nice human being.

And it has got BOG ALL to do with dog training - dogs aren't interested in politics. :lol:


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> _*What a joke. I hope animal abuse makes you feel manly. *_
> 
> So you call correction spray animal abuse? Lol
> 
> ...


:lol: What qualifications are those then oh wise one?

You're an idiot. I hope to god your dog doesn't get run over due to your stupidity. What titles have your dogs won at obedience? Or shall I answer for you and say none? I think you'll find a lot of people here compete at quite high levels


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Werehorse said:


> Oh dear, I'm affraid I nearly wet myself laughing when this unfortunate OP popped up with "CM say It Is So - so end of!" !!!
> 
> Diving into a lions den wearing a steak dress, fabulous.
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


Totally made my afternoon hilarious.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> _*What a joke. I hope animal abuse makes you feel manly. *_
> 
> So you call correction spray animal abuse? Lol
> 
> ...


As an All High EMPORESS of CANINES I decree pet corrector spray to be a fools shortcut and all who use it are to be banished.

Mwahahahahaha!

PS My dogs poop rainbows on command.


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

cacsmckilly said:


> What i am talking about is dog obedience, what you guys seem to be talking about is pet ownership. The difference here being is that i can walk through the city with my dog, without a lead and where the obstacles include other dogs, other people, traffic and noise. And not once would my dog leave my side, not once. You guys are just talking about having a happy wee pet who jumps all over you in the park. I think we are talking from two different levels, mine being an advanced one!


Oh I think you may be very, _very_ surprised as to what people here want from their dogs....


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> _*What a joke. I hope animal abuse makes you feel manly. *_
> 
> So you call correction spray animal abuse? Lol
> 
> ...


Bit dangerous? and VERY irresponsible of somebody who is a 'dog trainer'...


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## Sarah1983 (Nov 2, 2011)

Werehorse said:


> PS My dogs poop rainbows on command.


Are you going to teach Spencer to do this when I send him to you for retrieve training?  I'd much prefer to pick up a rainbow than regular old poop.


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

What qualifications are those then oh wise one? 

You're an idiot.

Well Phoolf, the loser of an argument normally resorts to name calling, sticks and stones my friend, sticks and stones!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

sophieanne93 said:


> Bit dangerous? and VERY irresponsible of somebody who is a 'dog trainer'...


Anyone and their mothers can call themselves a dog trainer. I mean...just look at Cesar Millan!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> What qualifications are those then oh wise one?
> 
> You're an idiot.
> 
> Well Phoolf, the loser of an argument normally resorts to name calling, sticks and stones my friend, sticks and stones!


So no answer then to what qualifications you hold?

Didn't think so. :lol:


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> What i am talking about is dog obedience, what you guys seem to be talking about is pet ownership. The difference here being is that i can walk through the city with my dog, without a lead and where the obstacles include other dogs, other people, traffic and noise. And not once would my dog leave my side, not once. You guys are just talking about having a happy wee pet who jumps all over you in the park. I think we are talking from two different levels, mine being an advanced one!


If your dog's obedience is so good, a sit should suffice to prevent the jumping up.

FWIW, many of us have trained our dogs to high levels of obedience without using force or dominance.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Phoolf said:


> I don't know about you but I'm about to go off and do some airy fairy basket weaving meditative class.


I have to soothe my home-made yoghurts first, then I'll be realigning my chakras for the rest of the afternoon


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> Anyone and their mothers can call themselves a dog trainer. I mean...just look at Cesar Millan!


I know its laughable the amount of people who claim to be dog trainers. If these are the kinds of people who are being let loose to train dogs then I don't hold much hope


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> _*What a joke. I hope animal abuse makes you feel manly. *_
> 
> So you call correction spray animal abuse? Lol
> 
> ...


Actually, were it not illegal to walk through a busy city with offlead dogs, I could do so with both of mine at the same time and they wouldn't leave my side. We have already established that my dogs do not jump over anybody, they are far too big to be allowed to do that, neither do they pull on a lead or run off. Strange that, since I am not their pack leader, not being a dog like, which they are bright enough to know.

So you are a "qualified" dog trainer? So what qualifications do you have and from which institute? A degree in animal behaviour from a recognised University, not distance learning, would be the qualification you need. Please enlighten me because I would love to know which university in this day and age is teaching that dogs jump up to assert their authority.


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

sophieanne93 said:


> Bit dangerous? and VERY irresponsible of somebody who is a 'dog trainer'...


No not dangerous Sophie, its called dog obedience and only comes about when you the owner is seen as the Alpha aka TOp DOG


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> No not dangerous Sophie, its called dog obedience and only comes about when you the owner is seen as the Alpha aka TOp DOG


:lol:

Stop, my sides are hurting :lol:

You think you know obedience yet you didn't train your dog to sit instead of jumping. :lol:


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

I would safely say my dog is obedient but never in a million years would I risk her life walking her offlead in a busy public area in traffic. ANYTHING could happen. What then happens when your perfect dog is stolen because you have not got it under your control?

ETA: my dog is obedient through earning respect, not through fear and me pushing to be 'dominant'. So if your dog jumps up at people, whos to say it wont jump up at someone when you have failed to control it by failing to use a lead?


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> No not dangerous Sophie, its called dog obedience and only comes about when you the owner is seen as the Alpha aka TOp DOG


Are we talking about two different dogs here? You seem to have one dog who you could walk through a busy city street and he would be too scared to leave your side, whilst you have another puppy who jumps up everybody. Is that right? If it is the same dog, how can he jump up all those people in the street without leaving your side?


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> :lol:
> 
> Stop, my sides are hurting :lol:
> 
> You think you know obedience yet you didn't train your dog to sit instead of jumping. :lol:


Oh but he doesnt jump up, thats your dogs problem is it not? My dog sits to greet me. The Correction Spray ensured that one!


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## ClaireandDaisy (Jul 4, 2010)

We have many blokes in Essex who walk through traffic with their dogs off lead. We don`t normally assume they are dog trainers though..........
We normally assume they are plonkers who need a thinking-brain dog to be able to navigate the route from home to post office and back.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> Oh but he doesnt jump up, thats your dogs problem is it not? My dog sits to greet me. The Correction Spray ensured that one!


Sits and greets you through fear, not respect.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> Oh but he doesnt jump up, thats your dogs problem is it not? My dog sits to greet me. The Correction Spray ensured that one!


Oh so he sits to greet, yet when he jumps up thats not greeting, thats asserting authority? Do I have that right?


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> No not dangerous Sophie, its called dog obedience and only comes about when you the owner is seen as the Alpha aka TOp DOG


What are you talking about? I'm guessing you are not aware that the theory of dominance was based on wolves in captivity and the man that came up with it himself says that it is wrong and that in fact dogs work like human beings ie cooperatively.

So if you respect the idea of 'pack leader' so much, you should respect the man that came up with the theory, and hence therefore reject as he has done


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

My dogs sit to greet me. No corrector spray in sight.

It ain't that hard.

Although clearly it must be the Awe and Wonder they feel in my beatific presence simply paralyses them.


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

newfiesmum said:


> Are we talking about two different dogs here? You seem to have one dog who you could walk through a busy city street and he would be too scared to leave your side, whilst you have another puppy who jumps up everybody. Is that right? If it is the same dog, how can he jump up all those people in the street without leaving your side?


Keep up dear, its you who dosent mind the jumping up business. Your getting mixed up with your time and dates.....oh the slow ones are the most difficult. 
My dog sits to greet me, the jumping up was knocked on the head over 3 months ago


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> Oh but he doesnt jump up, thats your dogs problem is it not? My dog sits to greet me. The Correction Spray ensured that one!


But if you taught him to sit properly, why did you need a correction spray to get him to not jump up?
Wouldn't simply telling him to sit prevent the jumping up?

My dogs love to jump on me, and I allow it when it suits. When it doesn't suit me, I ask them to sit or stand or down. No corretion spray needed because they know their obedience cues.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> Keep up dear, its you who dosent mind the jumping up business. Your getting mised up with your time and dates.....oh the slow ones are the most difficult.
> My dog sits to greet me, the jumping up was knocked on the head over 3 months ago


I can't wait til your 7month old Ratweiler is a teenager.


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

ouesi said:


> But if you taught him to sit properly, why did you need a correction spray to get him to not jump up?
> Wouldn't simply telling him to sit prevent the jumping up?
> 
> My dogs love to jump on me, and I allow it when it suits. When it doesn't suit me, I ask them to sit or stand or down. No corretion spray needed because they know their obedience cues.


OMG, are you serious here?

The dog knew sit but didnt do it! Hence the correction spray. We are talking about in the past here. OMG! As training has continued he is now at a high obedience level, i am able to walk leadless now through out town and country.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

So you are walking a 7 month old PUPPY without a lead next to roads?

thats a recipe for disaster.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> OMG, are you serious here?
> 
> *The dog knew sit but didnt do it!* Hence the correction spray. We are talking about in the past here. OMG! As training has continued he is now at a high obedience level, i am able to walk leadless now through out town and country.


:lol:

Some dog trainer.

Shoddy workman. Blame the tools.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

Phoolf said:


> :lol:
> 
> Some dog trainer.


that is hilarious! a 'dog trainer' would know how to deal with this without the need for corrector spray.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

sophieanne93 said:


> that is hilarious! a 'dog trainer' would know how to deal with this without the need for corrector spray.


A 'dog trainer' wouldn't pretend their dog 'knows how to sit' when they obviously don't know it well enough. Sad really.


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

If he doesn't do it - he doesn't know it.

I Said It Is So.

End of.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

werehorse said:


> if he doesn't do it - he doesn't know it.
> 
> I said it is so.
> 
> End of.


end of!!!!!


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## moonviolet (Aug 11, 2011)

I think someone may be needing this soon 

Sorry, couldn't find one made out of organic hemp.


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

moonviolet said:


> I think someone may be needing this soon
> 
> Sorry, couldn't find one made out of organic hemp.


But just think of the carbon footprint!!


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

I was really looking forward to hearing about our new resident experts animal qualifications


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2012)

cacsmckilly said:


> OMG, are you serious here?
> 
> The dog knew sit but didnt do it! Hence the correction spray. We are talking about in the past here. OMG! As training has continued he is now at a high obedience level, i am able to walk leadless now through out town and country.


Yes. I am very serious. 
If your dog "knew" sit, he would do it even if he would rather jump up. Its called a properly proofed behavior.
If you don't know how to proof behaviors without using intimidation, I would humbly suggest to you that you might want to expand your learning.


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## Linden_Tree (Jan 6, 2011)

If this thread doesn't highlight the dangers of celebrity dog trainers, their methods and impact on day to day dog owners, then i don't know what does.

It's disheartening to know there are those that will vehemently deny and ignore the scientific advances made in dog trainer and behaviour, only to adopt the mantra of a cult following, with no regards to how dogs learn, nor really any regards towards their welfare either.

Why take a hammer to smash a nut?


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

I've used them along with cans and bottles full of stones and chains, they're great for teaching dogs to ignore sudden noises


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

Seriously we need pictorial evidence of what you say your dog can do.

Here's mine...


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2012)

hawksport said:


> I've used them along with cans and bottles full of stones and chains, they're great for teaching dogs to ignore sudden noises


LOL too true!
Personally I don't want my dogs to react at all to loud noises or surprises. What with living in a busy home with young children, a loud noise, a blast of air, a misplaced foam sword that smacks the dog instead of the child opponent should not result in a cowering or worse, defensive dog.
In fact one of my favorite ways to desensitize my guys to this sort of thing is to squirt an aerosol can of whipped cream at them  Its hilarious and yummy!


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

Werehorse said:


> Seriously we need pictorial evidence of what you say your dog can do.
> 
> Here's mine...


LMAO that is brilliant!


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Yes. I am very serious.
> If your dog "knew" sit, he would do it even if he would rather jump up. Its called a properly proofed behavior.
> If you don't know how to proof behaviors without using intimidation, I would humbly suggest to you that you might want to expand your learning.


Oh proof behaviours, what a fancy word combination! I call it being a pussy.


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

Charming.. so you believe that making your dog respect you without 'dominating them' is being a pussy?

Contrary to this belief I think its even more amazing being able to control your dog through positive associations and having a relationship where a dog actually WANTS to obey without being physically forced.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> Oh proof behaviours, what a fancy word combination! I call it being a pussy.


No, you can't proof behaviours in cats, they are very different in motivation to dogs.

Not that it makes them any less important, you understand, I'm all equal opps in my hippy dippy fairyland.

By the way, I too, could walk my dog off the lead wherever I wanted, if I didn't give a monkeys about his safety or the law. You are absolutely not a dog trainer, but you have given us all a great big laugh.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

ouesi said:


> LOL too true!
> Personally I don't want my dogs to react at all to loud noises or surprises. What with living in a busy home with young children, a loud noise, a blast of air, a misplaced foam sword that smacks the dog instead of the child opponent should not result in a cowering or worse, defensive dog.
> In fact one of my favorite ways to desensitize my guys to this sort of thing is to squirt an aerosol can of whipped cream at them  Its hilarious and yummy!


My dogs breeder has an old shop clothes rail on wheels. It has lengths of rope hanging from it with old pans tied to the top of each rope and a toy at the bottom. From the day puppies start to play with the toys they have pans bang about above their heads. By 8 weeks nothing bothers them


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## cacsmckilly (Nov 19, 2012)

myshkin said:


> No, you can't proof behaviours in cats, they are very different in motivation to dogs.
> 
> Not that it makes them any less important, you understand, I'm all equal opps in my hippy dippy fairyland.
> 
> By the way, I too, could walk my dog off the lead wherever I wanted, if I didn't give a monkeys about his safety or the law. You are absolutely not a dog trainer, but you have given us all a great big laugh.


Well how else can one pass a day in work without a bit of fun and most on here fell for it!! I dont even own a dog

HA HA LOSERS!


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## Werehorse (Jul 14, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> Well how else can one pass a day in work without a bit of fun and most on here fell for it!! I dont even own a dog
> 
> HA HA LOSERS!


:nonod: :nonod: :nonod:

No chicken - you're the loser really. Sorry.


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## myshkin (Mar 23, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> Well how else can one pass a day in work without a bit of fun and most on here fell for it!! I dont even own a dog
> 
> HA HA LOSERS!


Yesssss...that makes them losers. Not the saddo whose just spent an afternoon trying to piss off total strangers. Right you are


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

cacsmckilly said:


> Well how else can one pass a day in work without a bit of fun and most on here fell for it!! I dont even own a dog
> 
> HA HA LOSERS!


Looks like you'll have to do some work to pass the time tomorrow


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## sophieanne93 (Jul 4, 2012)

well lets hope for the sake of any dog that you never own one! LOL us losers? I'm sorry love but you've just wasted a day trying to wind up people you don't even know on a pet forum... wow


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

ClaireandDaisy said:


> We have many blokes in Essex who walk through traffic with their dogs off lead. We don`t normally assume they are dog trainers though..........
> We normally assume they are plonkers who need a thinking-brain dog to be able to navigate the route from home to post office and back.


That is hilarious!


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## Alice Childress (Nov 14, 2010)

What an unpleasant and confusing creature he was... and to think, some people spend their days trying to cure cancer. Once upon a time that boy (I'm assuming it was a boy) was a tiny baby with potential to become so many different things in life and yet this is what he had ended up doing with it. Bizarre.


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## hawksport (Dec 27, 2009)

Alice Childress said:


> What an unpleasant and confusing creature he was... and to think, some people spend their days trying to cure cancer. Once upon a time that boy (I'm assuming it was a boy) was a tiny baby with potential to become so many different things in life and yet this is what he had ended up doing with it. Bizarre.


Well in my experience of children and dogs the naughtiest ones are often those that started with the most potential to be good, they just never had anyone that understood how to get the best from them. What a waste


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## Phoolf (Jun 13, 2012)

The last refuge of am imbecile: LOL I WAS ONLY JOKING

Heard it all before. Many times.


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## newfiesmum (Apr 21, 2010)

cacsmckilly said:


> Well how else can one pass a day in work without a bit of fun and most on here fell for it!! I dont even own a dog
> 
> HA HA LOSERS!


Well no, actually. Someone said you were a troll several pages back and I remember saying anyone who thinks they have a ratweiler must be a wind up. So no, we didn't fall for it. Just enjoying the idiot-baiting.


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## tiatortilla (Oct 1, 2012)

well this just gave me a good old evenings entertainment.
as they say, nout as strange as folk, but really.. i don't even work and i can't imagine being that bored!


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2012)

Oh man! I did totally fall for that!

Oh well... lurkers will still find something useful in the thread


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## Howl (Apr 10, 2012)

ouesi said:


> Oh man! I did totally fall for that!
> 
> Oh well... lurkers will still find something useful in the thread


I got something useful... I am going to get me some squirty cream to try and desensitise my greedy little cuddle bear.


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